text:
User talk:Dan Polansky/2012

Blurbzone's Babel
Thank you for the Wiktionary welcome, and for your inquiry about the Babel feature. Response is that I'm not comfortable with adding the template yet. The codes/levels don't provide the right classification for my account. E.g., level 5+ for en. My 2nd item is a request that you please notify your Wiktionary co-administrators not to randomly delete entries (etiquette rule #4), since they are causing waste of volunteer time and energy, and causing [in some cases] loss of relevant information over extremely petty, unexplained issues on their part. Blurbzone 12:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding your second point, Special:DeletedContributions/Blurbzone reveals no deleted edits, also there is no Etiquette rules, are you confusing us with Wikipedia? We get that a lot. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Re Babel: If you are unsure of you Babel levels, you should just add : that will do, provided you are a native English speaker.
 * Re admins such as SemperBlotto: It seems that you are new to wikis, not only to Wiktionary. SemperBlotto is one of the most prolific contributors to English Wiktionary, so if anyone is wasting times of volunteers it is you: you are wasting time of SemperBlotto. SemperBlotto is sometimes hasty in deleting suspect poorly formatted additions by newbies, but, OTOH, he does a lot of patrolling and is a huge contributor. If you have any more questions about SOS page, you'd better talk to someone else than SemperBlotto, such as me. --Dan Polansky 12:21, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Will ignore your outburst below. Information and language are universal (as far as encyclopaedia matters go), so I don't appreciate that particular editor's approach or actions.  There are reasons for the entry I found deleted, then later modified for reduction of relevant input...I don't appreciate that, nor the blatantly false and untrue statement you made "you are wasting time of SemperBlotto."  Where?????  Nor the fact that my references (e.g., to the etiquette matters) are taken right out of Wiki pages that neither one of you has read.  You can both assign my reviews elsewhere since neither one of you seem to understand points of formal and valid communication included in the messages left.  Sorry for being short with you, but I hate time waste.

 * Re: Babel template --- I am not interested in listing my speaking level, since I'm not interested in advertising nativity to that or any other language. And nativity is not the point when it comes to materials written for publication in any language.Blurbzone 01:34, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Flood flag
Hi, would you accept a nomination at WT:RFFF. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:53, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, good idea. --Dan Polansky 11:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Does there need to be a request? Can't you just add the flood flag to my user? --Dan Polansky 11:58, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There are supposed to be two approvals, and now there are. BTW please don't make other edits whilst using the flood flag (though it's not a disaster of course) and leave a message on my talk page, or another admin's, when you want the FF off. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I see you have set the flood flag for me, but I still see my edits in recent changes: http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&hidebots=1. What is the consequence of the flood flag? --Dan Polansky 12:07, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Some stats about the replacement batch made using WT:AWB: --Dan Polansky 16:32, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The date of the dump: 2012-01-09
 * The number of pages matching the regexp ", from {{(term|etyl)" before the start of the replacement batch: 17690
 * The number of edits: 5717

I have made a follow up, by considering the forgotten search for "< {{ proto" in AWB. ( < 	(from 	False	False	False	False	False	False	True (< 	(from 	False	False	False	False	False	False	True < , from 	False	False	False	False	False	False	True ^< 	From 	False	True	True	False	False	False	True --Dan Polansky 18:55, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The number of edits: 1147
 * Updated regexp for creating worklist: "< {{ (term|etyl|proto)"
 * Regexp table used in AWB:

As a hopefully last follow-up, I have searched all the pages containing " < ", without any checking for its context. --Dan Polansky 22:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The number of edits: 895.
 * False positives: I have managed to skip or correct a couple of false positives. I am afraid I have left some false positives uncorrected, though.

I have fixed double "from" occurrences, as "from from"; #edits: 46.

Regexp table used for this: from from	from	True	False	False	False	False	False From from	From	True	False	False	False	False	False From From	From	True	False	False	False	False	False from From	from	True	False	False	False	False	False --Dan Polansky 11:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno why you were still in the recent changes; it's clearly a bug of some sort, no doubt due to the updating on the MediaWiki software. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * On Saturday when I had the flood flag, I have failed to mark my edits my minor. Could this be the cause? --Dan Polansky 12:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Babel
No, no chance I would voluntarily add Babel to my userpage. The underlying theory of the Babel presentation is wrong. The templates have little actual usage beyond vanity. And I subscribe to the original purpose for user namespace on Wikimedia projects (circa 2004, so mostly irrelevant at the current time): User pages are for the over-all improvement of the wiki. - Amgine/t·e 15:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure, then, with your strong opinions on the subject, that you can appreciate when others have strong opinions on issues as well. - Amgine/t·e 17:18, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

About Wikisaurus
In 2010 and 2011 I did poorly thought, immature and harmful edits to Wikisaurus, including the history of WS:person, the use and documentation of certain templates and a flood of WS pages for proper nouns. You had to undo them and/or discuss them with me, while I defended my edits stubbornly and disregarded your experience in contributing to the project and your knowledge of semantic relations.

I am sorry. --Daniel 17:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

 * I appreciate and accept your apology. --Dan Polansky 11:58, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Czech entries for Czech diacritics
Hi Dan. Could you create Czech entries for (the English already exists) and the diminutive suffix  (that page has Breton, Hungarian, Kurdish, and Serbo-Croatian entries) please? Also, could you tell me what diminutive suffix was involved in the derivation of from  please? I ask you because you are the member of Category:User cs-N with whom I am best acquainted. — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 23:19, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

 * I've created "kroužek", but at least two senses are missing. I have not created an entry for the Czech suffix -ek, as I am unsure the formation of diminutives in Czech is best described as suffixing, and even if it is, this requires an amount of research that I not want to go into right now. Some examples, nonetheless: kruh -> kroužek, pruh -> proužek, samec ->sameček, dům -> domek & domeček, strom -> stromek & stromeček, chlap -> chlapec -> chlapeček, zvon -> zvonec -> zvoneček, čepec -> čepeček, hrob -> hrobeček, kopec -> kopeček, dar -> dárek -> dáreček, myslivec -> mysliveček, trávník -> trávníček, kůň -> koník -> koníček, Vašek -> Vašík -> Vašíček.
 * For čára and čárka, I am not sure this is best described as suffixing, as well. Furthermore, I find it hard to find a set of examples that follows the pattern of čára -> čárka. Terms that sound similar to čárka include bárka and várka, but these are no obvious diminutives of other terms. --Dan Polansky 10:54, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you. If it's all right with you, I'll copy that information to Talk:-ek, so that it may serve as a basis for someone else to do that research in future, if it occurs to anyone to do so.
 * I created the Czech pronunciatory transcriptions for, , , and based upon the information on Czech phonology that I found on Wikipedia. Could you verify that they are correct, please?
 * — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 17:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

 * I am not very enthusiastic about your copying the above post to Talk:-ek, but I do not oppose it either.
 * I avoid doing Czech pronunciation, so my verification is going to be very superficial, following Czech phonology. Furthermore, I am going to ignore SAMPA, as I do not intend to learn it any time soon.
 * Here are the IPA pronunciations that you have given:
 * čárky: /ˈʧaːrkɪ/
 * háčky: /ˈɦaːʧkɪ/
 * kroužek: /ˈkroʊʒɛk/
 * kroužky: /ˈkroʊʒkɪ/
 * Comments:
 * "" should be "" following Czech phonology and http://www.phil.muni.cz/jazyk/files/fonetika/ipa-pro-cestinu.pdf, but some folks from Czech Wiktionary use there, following Fonologie_češtiny. See also User_talk:Dan_Polansky/2011.
 * ˈ is possibly only used in [] and not in //; to be verified.
 * --Dan Polansky 18:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

 * See Talk:-ek for the information I've copied; is what I've done OK? Thanks for fixing the pronunciatory transcriptions for undefined: and undefined: (I've updated the SAMPA transcriptions accordingly); my use of was prompted by the information on diphthongs given in Czech language (I omitted the combining inverted breve below, which marks non-syllabicity, because I supposed that, were the  not a diphthong, that fact would be noted with a syllabic break as ). Finally, re the use of, is stress phonemic in Czech? (I assume not, given that every word receives stress on its initial syllable as standard.) — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 22:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

 * The pronunciation of "kroužky" in IPA is /ˈkrou̯ʃkɪ/ and not /ˈkrouʒkɪ/. If there´s a voiced consonant before a voiceless one, both these consonants become voiceless. --Istafe (talk) 17:51, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Re: "Is stress phonemic in Czech?": I don't know. --Dan Polansky 07:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

 * OK, well, if not, the stress mark shouldn't be used in phonemic IPA transcriptions (i.e., those bound by slashes: ) for Czech. — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 19:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikisaurus links standardization
I have run a batch of edits that standardized linking to Wikisaurus from the mainspace, using AWB. This required a lot of manual editing and supervision.

Worklist identification: search for "[[WikiSaurus" without regexp in a case-sensitive manner.

The number of edits: 175.

Replacements used in AWB: \* *\[\[WikiSaurus	* See also s]ee'' \[\[WikiSaurus	See also [[Wikisaurus	True	True	False	False	False	False [[WikiSaurus	[[Wikisaurus	True	False	False	False	False	False --[[User:Dan Polansky|Dan Polansky 10:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

vestigium
Then please make clear which of the sources cited claims that the etymolgy is unknown. "Etymology unknown" is a claim as much as any other, and it must be clear whose claim this is. Otherwise you are just replacing one unsourced claim by another. --Dbachmann 10:33, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Etymology cleanup
A personal log: I have done a partial etymology cleanup using AWB, above all by putting commas before "from" in etymology chains. Beyond that, I added the use of the term template to some easily matched parts that were not yet formatted using the term template; I did it in an incomplete manner, mainly as a preparation for adding commas before "from". The task of adding "term" template is not perfectly suited to AWB; ideally, one would loop at a comprehensive list of languages and, for each language, perform a couple of regexp replacements.

\[\[([^][#]*)#Middle English\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=enm}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old English\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=ang}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Anglo-Norman\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=xno}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Italian\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=it}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old French\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=fro}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old Norse\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=non}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle French\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=frm}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#French\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=fr}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Latin\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=la}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old High German\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=goh}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle High German\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=gmh}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle Low German\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=gml}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#German\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=de}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old Frisian\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=ofs}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#East Frisian\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=frs}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle Dutch\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=dum}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Dutch\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=nl}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old Saxon\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=osx}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Spanish\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=es}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Gothic\|([^][#]*)\]\]\s*["']([^"']*)["']	{{term|$1|$2|$3|lang=got}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle English\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=enm}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old English\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=ang}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Anglo-Norman\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=xno}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Italian\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=it}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old French\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=fro}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old Norse\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=non}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle French\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=frm}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#French\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=fr}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Latin\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=la}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old High German\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=goh}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Middle High German\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=gmh}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#German\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=de}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old Frisian\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=ofs}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Old Saxon\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=osx}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Spanish\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=es}}	False	True	False	False	False	False \[\[([^][#]*)#Gothic\|([^][#]*)\]\]	{{term|$1|$2|lang=got}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{etyl\|la}}\s*\[\[([^][']*)\]\]\s*"([^"]*)"	{{etyl|la}} {{term|$1||$2|lang=la}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{etyl\|la}}\s*\[\[([^][']*)\]\]	{{etyl|la}} {{term|$1|lang=la}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{etyl\|enm}}\s*\[\[([^][']*)\]\]\s*"([^"]*)"	{{etyl|enm}} {{term|$1||$2|lang=enm}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{etyl\|enm}}\s*\[\[([^][']*)\]\]	{{etyl|enm}} {{term|$1|lang=enm}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{etyl\|fro}}\s*\[\[([^][']*)\]\]\s*"([^"]*)"	{{etyl|fro}} {{term|$1||$2|lang=fro}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{etyl\|fro}}\s*\[\[([^][']*)\]\]	{{etyl|fro}} {{term|$1|lang=fro}}	False	True	False	False	False	False {{term\|([^\|]*)\|\1\|	{{term|$1||	True	True	False	False	False	False }} from {{(term|etyl|proto|prefix)	}}, from {{$1	True	True	False	False	False	False ^Via {{(term|etyl|proto|prefix)	From {{$1	True	True	True	False	False	False --Dan Polansky 14:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Worklist search term: }} from {{(term|etyl|proto|prefix)
 * Regexp table:
 * #edits: 2371

Reliability: The regexp replacements above are imperfect. Their use requires close monitoring in AWB. I have cought several bad edits, but I may have overlooked other ones. An example of bad edit, cought by Ruakh: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/בן־דוד?diff=16253121. --Dan Polansky 15:00, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Could you also look for '>' in etymologies and replace them with 'from'? I recently found entries which wrongly used '>' instead of '<'. --Vahag (talk) 12:29, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you have an example entry? --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:31, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * This. --Vahag (talk) 12:38, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Votes/2008-01/IPA for English r
How do you interpret this vote? Is it implementable in any meaningful way? Mglovesfun (talk) 13:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

 * For reference, the text of the vote: "For the pronunciation of English terms, agreement to use the specific IPA character /ɹ/ instead of /r/ for the r phoneme in words like red, green and orange."
 * What the vote says I think is this: 'In the IPA markup of pronunciation of English terms, for words that contain the r phoneme that is exemplified by (but not limited to) its occurrences in "red", "green" and "orange", the IPA character /ɹ/ rather than /r/ should be used.'
 * What I don't know is whether there are more r-phonemes in English, as I know close to nothing about English IPA; a striken-out text of the vote speaks of /ɹ/ and /ɾ/, implying there are at least two r-phonemes in English.
 * In conclusion, my guess would be, yes, the vote can be implemented by placing /ɹ/ into all English IPA pronunciations that have the same r-phoneme as "red", "range" and "green". --Dan Polansky 14:11, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "the r phoneme in words like red, green and orange" says to me there are words which aren't like red, green and orange where the IPA symbol ɹ should not be used. But the vote doesn't try to explain what a word like red, green or orange is. I think DAVilla may have meant 'the r phoneme in all English words', but it's a weird way to express that, as the wording leads me to believe the exact opposite, that is to say not in all English words. Maybe we should have a 2012 version of the vote saying exactly that, the rhoticr in all English words, where any r is considered rhotic unless it is not pronounced at all (like in British English, there is no rhotic r at all). Mglovesfun (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I am the wrong person to talk to about English IPA, I am afraid. You can find out what DAVilla meant by asking him; he's still around. Thereafter, a clarifying vote could be in order, but I don't really know. --Dan Polansky 14:27, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Czech translations by Zdeněk Brož
I have added Czech translations donated by Zdeněk Brož via. See the user page and the user talk page for details. --Dan Polansky (talk) 23:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Numbers
Thank you for checking on the numbers Wikisaurus entry. I checked each and every number that I put up. All of them are from Wikipedia, and I checked all of them, except, I think the twins/triplets series. I cannot understand why you deleted that work. Please restore. BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 16:05, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The words you have added do not refer to numbers, and thus are not hyponyms of "number". You have added "monad", "pair", "duo"; "primary", "secondary", "tertiary"; "single", "double", "triple"; numeral systems "quaternary", "quinary", "sexal"; you have added all of them as hyponyms of "number", but these are not numbers but rather words relating to numbers in various ways. There is a terminological confusion by which number words are often called "number", but that is not what WS:number is about. You have expanded WS:number based on Numeral (linguistics), an article that looks like original research and contains rare terms such as "multiplicative numerals". You have used terms in the semicolon headings that have very few Google hits, such as "multiplicative numbers"; you have used "composite numbers" to refer to "unary", "binary", and "ternary", although the term usually refers to positive integers that are not prime numbers. What I think could be meaninguflly done is place these terms into "Various" section rather than "Hyponyms" section, and separate the groups using rather than using headings with rare phrases. Here is . --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:46, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the discussion. I agree that the terms did not seem to be very sensible. I think it would be useful to find terms, perhaps with a query to the tea room, for these types of numbers. I myself have wanted a page to find numbers like this in the past, and I think it is useful information. In the meantime, I did what I think you are suggesting, though I put ordinal numbers in a section immediately below the cardinal numbers, as I think that makes sense to people looking for that information. BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 20:18, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the clarification. I've kept the removed items in a list for future attestation. BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 20:44, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Restricting translations to lemma
I have restricted adjectival translations to their lemma forms, removing feminine, neuter, and sometimes plural forms listed alongside the masculine form in the translation table. Done using AWB. Minor supervision was necessary, as some Icelandic terms were found outside of translation tables. These could have probably been reduced to masculine form too, but I have skipped them to be on the safe side. \[\[(...)(.*?)]], \[\[\1.*?]] , \[\[\1.*?]] , \[\[\1.*?]] 	$1$2	False	True	True	False	False	False	True \[\[(...)(.*?)]], \[\[\1.*?]] , \[\[\1.*?]] 	$1$2	False	True	True	False	False	False	True --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:07, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * #edits: 360
 * Worklist search term: \[\[(...)(.*?)]], \[\[\1.*?]] , \[\[\1.*?]]
 * Regexp table:
 * An example edit:

 * Thank you for doing this! --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:21, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome!

I have performed another batch, this time for translations using the t template rather than the plain ... markup. Supervision is needed; there were some false positives in noun entries, such as in "gangue" or "pupil". In fact, it is surprising that the lame heuristic used in the regexp table below works so well for a range of languages. The batch sometimes left forms for m|p, f|p and n|p behind, in those few entries where they were used.

,, , 	, , 	Above, I have been working with languages that have the three genders of m, f, and n. What remains to be done is the same for languages with the two genders of m and f, such as--probably--Italian, French and Spanish. Using the same technique is likely to generate a significant number of false positives. The matching on all three genders almost always selects adjectival translations; a similar matching for only masculine and feminine would probably select many nouns, such as analogues of English "actor" and "actress" in these languages. To fix this, one would have to make sure that the translation being matched is within an adjective section, which is nowhere obviously possible using AWB regexp replacements. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * #edits: 272
 * Worklist search term: pick one from the regexp table below
 * Regexp table:
 * An example edit:.
 * I have manually fixed the few items that were of the form m|p, f|p and n|p. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:22, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

A further batch, heavily supervised with several skips and manual corrections, for the likes of m, n:, , 		False	True	True	False	False	False	True , 		False	True	True	False	False	False	True --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * #edits: 32
 * Edit summary: restrict adjective translation to lemma
 * Rexexp table:

Etymology and reverted less-than sign
Responding to a query by Vahag several sections above: The search in AWB for "> {{(term|etyl|proto|prefix)" finds 387 pages. Unfortunately, in these entries, ">" means either "from" or "whence", depending on whether it goes in the right directtion. For ">" meaning "from", an example page is "drachma"; for ">" meaning "whence", an example page is "saksalaistaa".

I have performed a batch of edits in AWB nonetheless. > {{(term|etyl|proto|prefix), from {{$1	False	True --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:59, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * #edits: 46
 * #skips: 341
 * Edit summary: etymology: > to from, where > goes in the wrong direction,
 * Worklist regexp: > {{(term|etyl|proto|prefix)
 * Skip term: ==Finnish== (skip Finnish entries, as there ">" usually went in the right direction)
 * Regexp table:
 * Supervision: massive; there were very many skips, as the sign ">" often went in the right direction, and I often could not tell whether it does, as I did not speak or know the language in question. Cases where I could confirm that ">" went in the wrong direction include Old French being derived from Latin and not vice versa. Cases where I could not tell included various Arabic items.

Changing forms
Thank you for all your help so far. I see you are involved in etymology, and I have a related question I hope you can help me with. The word "pasta" used to be "paste" in English when referring to the Italian food. In the pasta entry, I put up the earliest quotation I could find of "pasta" and now I would like to put up some earlier instances of "paste" (where the word clearly means "pasta). Is it acceptable to also add an obsolete entry to the paste entry? And can I put both "paste" and "pasta" in the etymology section on the pasta entry? I hope my questions make sense. BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 22:17, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Your questions:
 * "Is it acceptable to also add an obsolete entry to the paste entry?"
 * Do you mean to add an obsolete sense to the "paste" entry? We include all attested senses, even the obsolete ones, so the answer to my phrasing of the question is yes. If you add the sense together with an attestation, even better.
 * 'Can I put both "paste" and "pasta" in the etymology section on the pasta entry?'
 * If "pasta" stems from "paste", then "paste" is naturally part of the etymology of "pasta", but "pasta" seems to be directly borrowed from Italian, so it does not stem from English "paste". If "paste" is merely cognate with "pasta" (by having some shared ancestors), then "paste" can be listed as a cognate, although English-English cognates are usually listed in "Related terms" section, so there would be "paste" in "Related terms" of "pasta".
 * 'The word "pasta" used to be "paste" in English when referring to the Italian food.'
 * That is incorrect or misleading, I think. The English word "pasta" is not descended from the English word "paste".
 * --Dan Polansky (talk) 22:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the responses. Clearly you're right that "pasta" is not descended from "paste." Instead what probably happened is that "pasta" replaced "paste." So I'll add an obsolete meaning to "paste" with citations and then cross-reference pasta and paste to each other. BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 22:52, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikisaurus statistics
Some Wikisaurus statistics for January 2012 follow, based on stats.grok.se, such as "http://stats.grok.se/en.d/201201/Wikisaurus:fatty_acid".

The number of Wikisaurus pages: 1209 (inaccurate, actually a bit more more; a list extracted from Wiktionary:All_Wikisaurus_pages)

The total number of page hits in Wikisaurus in January 2012: 85,983

The total number of page hits in Wikisaurus in January 2012, without top 100 pages: 23,513

Median page hits per Wikisaurus page in January 2012: 17

Average page hits per Wikisaurus page in January 2012: 71

Top 100 Wikisaurus pages in January 2012, with page hits in the month:

--Dan Polansky (talk) 20:17, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

c. and cf. in etymologies
You're good at regex and AWB, from what I can tell. (Thank you for replacing those less-than signs!) Could you also replace c., C, c,  C. , C, C., c and c. (and possibly other variants of "c") (both with and without spaces between the c, dot or bracket and the following word) in etymology sections — replace them with "attested circa" or "circa"? And could you replace <tt>cf.</tt> / <tt>Cf.</tt> with "compare", since Wiktionary is not paper? Entries with etymologies that begin with "c."-variants are: discord gangster donate authoritarian disability numinous adaptitude heliostat virescent sycomore sycamore disbelieve iridescent acetification heteronym inalienable anonymous indigent guzzle confection burger legion availability hieroglyph centenarian immanent humanitarian anonym equalitarian putrescent centenary beautification rubescent astronomical lickety-split reification prose offing notability dollar scissors realize anthroponym opalescent squeeze split dwarf arborescent (there may be more entries that have "c" somewhere else). Entries with etymologies that begin with "cf." or "Cf." are: el nana celo civet baste mope squander brou actionable winkel Wallachia boira gibe glans gebied (other entries may have "cf" elsewhere in them). - -sche (discuss) 20:44, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can find time and enthusiasm for this task. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:01, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

RFD
Are you also harassing everyone else that simply votes "delete" "tosh" and "nah" on a regular basis with no "bearing" or just me?Lucifer (talk) 22:12, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no seen anyone else consistenty giving blatant non-reasons in RFD. "Tosh" is not my favorite reason, but at least makes sense as some sort of quick shortcut; "Since I am one" is pure nonsense as a reason for keeping. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:44, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * For the case that you remove inconvenient threads from your talk page again, your recent poor editing is documented in . --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:34, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * For my record, the users of this person include, and , and . I have already had a conversation with him, in User_talk:Acdcrocks, in which his responses were unforthcoming and rude. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:56, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Re: "I have edited on Wikipedia for years with little issues that could not be resolved" (a statement made by the person on his talk page): his user W:User_talk:Luciferwildcat made first edit on 10 November 2011. W:User:Luciferwildcat/archive1 shows that the user causes trouble on Wikipedia no less than on Wiktionary. On Wikipedia, W:User:Purplebackpack89 (who also edits Wiktionary) had the pleasue of repeatedly dealing with the user. By the way, I posting here on my talk page, as the user has a history of removing inconvenient comments from his talk page. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:43, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Good to know. Thanks for the research.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 10:53, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Here is some more on some Wikipedia users that can be of this person: W:User:Gtroy has made first edit on 18 August 2011 and last edit on 30 October 2011; it appears to be his user. W:User:Acdcrocks has made first edit on 10 October 2011 and last edit on 2 November 2011; it appears to be his user. W:User:Catch22 does not appear to be a user of the person; W:User:Catch22 has made almost no contributions, anyway.
 * The person has been discussed at Beer_parlour_archive/2011/October. There, the person's having made one legal threat is mentioned. There, many admins seem to see the person as more useful than harmful.
 * A sockpuppet that I have omitted:.
 * Blocking the person indefinitely is likely to lead to his creation of further sockpuppets. His strategy of being very independent, sloppy ("I'll dump whatever comes to mind to Wiktionary, and you guys find citations, format my contributions, and delete the entry if needed; I am too lazy to do a proper attestation myself, but I can always cry 'wiki' and 'collaboration'"), of being rude, and of creating new accounts if blocked seems to work well for him, and seems hard to act against. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:13, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

statistics on translations
Ahoj,

Is it hard to produce regular statistics on translations into a language (Russian, Chinese, etc.)? Where can I find this info or does it require some coding? --Anatoli (обсудить) 07:35, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Privét, if what you are after are numbers of language entries, WT:STAT shows you what you want; I especially like the "gloss definitions" column, as it does not include inflected forms. If what you are looking for is the number of translations in translation tables of English entries, per language, then I do not know of any such statistic being published. Nonetheless, the number of English pages that have at least one Russian translation can be obtained using WT:AWB by searching for "\* Russian:" with regexp; this gives me 26,734 entries. What you can also search for is "{{t.?\|ru" using regexp; ".?" means "possibly one another character"; "\|" makes sure "|" is read literally by AWB rather than as a magic character; the search gives me 23,021 entries. These are numbers of English entries rather than numbers of Russian translations, as one English entry can have more than one Russian translation.
 * To get the number of Russian translations in English entries, you can run "grep" on a Wiktionary dump from a command line:
 * grep "\* Russian:" enwiktionary-20120109-pages-articles.xml | wc -l
 * This gives me 39,570 Russian translations.
 * The tools that you need to get these numbers is AWB (Windows-only) or "grep", which is installed on most or all Linux machines and can be had for Windows from http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/grep.htm (my favorite, one that I actually used) and from other places. No coding or writing scripts is needed.
 * You can get a dump by following instructions at Help:FAQ; the latest dump is at http://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiktionary/latest/; the latest dump without revision histories that I recommed is http://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiktionary/latest/enwiktionary-latest-pages-articles.xml.bz2. The dumps per date of publishing can be had from http://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiktionary/. Before using the dump, you need to unpack the bz2 archive, which can be done using 7-zip on Windows.
 * Sorry if you already knew a lot of what I have described. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:31, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not know of any such statistic being published - There were: User:Robert Ullmann/Trans languages, but the last update is from 2010 (28560 Russian translations). Maro 14:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you very much for the long description. I thought the statistics is readily available somewhere. It seems a bit complicated, I don't write code as a hobby, only for work :) I may address it later though. Maro, I saw that dump, was hoping this could be refreshed. User:Matthias_Buchmeier has generated list of tranlations from English into some FL's. It's quite impressive and useful. --Anatoli (обсудить) 10:48, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

subjunctive mood
I'd disagree that this is all that includable. It's easily derived from the sum of its parts, if you can find the sense at mood, granted. Furthermore it's much much more commonly called the subjunctive, so this and indicative mood, nominative case (etc. etc.) should really jut point to the more common form, so subjunctive, indicative and nominative. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:21, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd keep it per my arguments from Talk:nominative case. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:35, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Why names of languages are not proper nouns
A blog post, as it were, relating to Wiktionary:

I do not know whether names of languages are proper nouns or not, but I will try to develop a position according to which names of languages are not proper nouns.

In English, there are two characteristics of names of languages that point to their being proper nouns: capitalization and their having a single referent.

Capitalization of names of languages can be declared an accident. Terms referring to people by nationality ("Englishman", "Spaniard") are also capitalized and yet are not proper nouns. In names of nationalities and languages, capitalization seems to confer an honor to the referent ("Spanish") or manner of reference ("Spaniard").

Having a single referent is also not guaranteeing being a proper noun. An analogy can be construed between terms referring to materials and masses on one hand and terms referring to languages on the other hand. Terms referring to materials such as "gold" and "wood" also have a single referent, even if spatially distributed one. A chair can be made of wood or metal. By a bit of a stretch, a sentence can be made of English (as if it were a sort of material from which sentences are made) or of Spanish. The hypothesis would be that terms that have a single referent that is an abstract object are not considered proper nouns; abstract objects include chemical elements, chemical compounds, colors, numbers, etc. If this hypothesis is accepted, it remains to be seen whether a language is a concrete object or an abstract object.

A language has no spatial extension, no location and no mass, so it does not belong to the ranks of such concrete objects as rocks, rivers, cities, plants, animals, people, stars, comets, etc. The analogy to materials suggested above points to the possibility that a language is an abstract object; similar abstract objects seem to be musical styles, such as "rock" and "jazz", and names of dances (Wikisaurus:dance).

A key property of abstract objects is that they can be instantiated or quasi-instantiated, even though they already are instances. Thus, gold can be instantiated in a particular brick, rock can be instantiated in a particular song (which again is an abstract object, instantiated in a particular performance of that song), the number five is instantiated in my right hand in the number of fingers, the color black is instantiated in the color of my laptop, and the English language is instantiated in this particular sentence. Only a fraction of the whole of gold is instantiated in a particular brick; only a fraction of the whole of English is instantiated in any particular sentence. By contrast, concrete objects do not seem to show anything like this ability of being instantiated.

This consideration is complicated by the fact that information artifacts (such as this sentence) seem to be abstract objects yet their names are considered proper names, and so capitalized. To deal with it, we could introduce a degree of being abstract. Thus, a particular sentence is still an abstract object, instantiated in utterances of the sentence. But it is less abstract than a language, instantiated in its sentences. Furthermore, if this consideration creates a problem, the problem so created nowhere concerns only names of languages. Why are names of styles of music and dances considered common nouns, while names of particular artistic works proper nouns? Are languages more like styles of music and dances or more like particular artistic works?

To close the discussion, if a term that refers to a single referent that is an abstract object is not considered a proper noun regardless of the singularity of reference, and if a language is an abstract object, then a name of language is not a proper noun, regardless of capitalization.

--Dan Polansky (talk) 22:03, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

teny
When you create a new term in a language with limited documentation, especially one you don't know, be sure to add a citation (either a quotation or a ===References=== section) and add with it. Thanks --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 08:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Why exactly? The term has one mention in Freeman, 1835. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:39, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Then give the full citation in a References section. If you're asking why, then you might as well ask why we cite terms to begin with. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 08:42, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The common practice is not to cite every single term. A term should be requested for citation only if it is in doubt that it is attested. A term can be attested even if it has no quotation in Wiktionary. The term "teny" is pseudo-attested in Freeman's 1835 dictionary. I have added many Czech terms with no quotations and no references into Wiktionary, and plan to continue doing so. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:49, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I only ask because it would be rather hard for someone else to cite it (easier now because you left a note on the talk page). --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 08:52, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have entered the source in the original edit summary. It should not be hard to people to verify the entry by the pseudo-attestation criteria; all they have to do is find the term in a single dictionary. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If you really want to fight this hard not to cite it, I won't force you to. I was just hoping that you'd help out. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 09:00, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I now think you are actually right; providing a reference is not all that much work, and it makes it much easier for people to verify the entry. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks :) --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 09:07, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you now going to add to all members of Category:Malagasy nouns, after you have added it to teny? Are you a bureaucrat who hates to do real work? --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:08, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No, because I don't know any Malagasy and it's not an interest of mine. Conversely, I am at tpi-1 in Tok Pisin and am actively learning it, and you will notice that I have cited and LDL'd more than a hundred Tok Pisin entries so far, and intend to do many more, as I'm just beginning a project of using the Tok Pisin Bible to cite entries (by just beginning, I mean that I'm in Chapter 2 of Genesis). --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 09:15, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So what is good for? Why have you placed it to teny? By what criteria do you decide which entries of poorly documented languages should have the template? --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:17, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * To answer your questions in turn: to alert readers (just read it and you'll understand), because of policy (i.e., the vote you opposed) and because of the answer to your previous question, and the criteria are the same as those that determine whether terms get added to Wiktionary at all: whether or not someone cares enough to add them. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 09:22, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Then again, why have you added to teny but not to Category:Malagasy nouns? Does the policy force you to add  to teny? If so, what sentence of the policy? Why does not the same policy force you to add  to all members of Category:Malagasy nouns? Why are readers not alerted on almost all pages of Wiktionary that three quotations are missing?  --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Answered individually: The template is designed for entries in the main namespace (not categories), yes, to quote the CFI: "a box explaining that a low number of citations were used should be included on the entry page (such as by using the template)" (this is described as a "requirement" a few lines above), I have already answered that, because most entries on Wiktionary are easily citable with three quotations and can be presumed to be reliable. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 09:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * To repeat myself: Why does not the same policy force you to add to all members of Category:Malagasy nouns? --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread that one. Some of them may be fully citable and fully trustworthy. Thus, the template is added on a case-by-case basis. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:30, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Disingenuous. Thanks for . --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. Er, um, *clears throat* mwahahahaha! --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 19:34, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Inflected forms
(A Wiktionary blog-like post) Wiktionary has the practice of including inflected forms rather than restricting itself to lemmas. One advantage of doing so is that the reader of a written material can take any inflected form found in a sentence, and find it in Wiktionary, even when he does not know the regularities ("smile" --> "smiled") and irregularities ("buy" --> "bought") of inflection of the language. Thus, to the extend to which inflection is regular, form-of entries can be thought of as a tabulated or buffered result of an inflectional analyzer, something like an addition table replacing a compact algorithm for addition.

A consequence that may be disliked is that, in highly inflected languages, entries for inflected forms massively outnumber lemma entries. Based on WT:STATS made using the dump of 2012-07-24, here are some statistics for some of the languages with highest numbers of inflected forms. Let me highlight that the column E has the number of form-of definitions rather than form-of entries, and the column D has the number of gloss definitions rather than the number of gloss-having entries. Furthermore, note that C = D + E. Column B stands in no direct relation to the other columns other than that B < C; it involves both entries with form-of definitions and entries with gloss definitions. B-D comes close to being a lower bound on the number of pure form-of entries.

The claim of Main_Page that Wiktionary has "3,065,335 entries with English definitions" has to be read with the inflected forms in mind. By summing the column D from WT:STATS, we get 1,490,000 gloss definitions; the number of gloss entries is even lower than that.

There is a discussion in Requests_for_verification about whether attestation requirements should apply to inflected forms. Some people seem to think that whenever Wiktionary has an attested lemma entry, it should also have all regularly formed inflected forms of the lemma regardless of their attestation. By contrast, I think that Wiktionary should avoid hosting unattested inflected forms regardless of the attestation of the lemma. Especially, when an inflected form is challenged in RFV, it should be deleted unless attested. The use of bots to create a complete set of inflected forms where there is a suspition that some of them are unattested seems tolerable, provided the inflected forms are deleted once they are challenged and left unattested. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:44, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Luciferwildcat
For some notes on, see above.

Users of the person:
 * -- added in 2013
 * -- added in 2013
 * -- added in 2013
 * -- added in 2013
 * -- added in 2013
 * -- added in 2013

Unattested entries that he has hastily added:
 * fatbitch; November 2011
 * wifeboy; November 2011
 * fatcow; November 2011
 * nocturnavore -- "a person who eats the night"; see Talk:nocturnavore later; August 2012

Incidents:
 * Making one legal threat: ; September 2011
 * Using unduly familiar terms of address: "sunshine", and "hon":, ; October 2011
 * Lying about the term of his editing in Wikipedia: "I have edited on Wikipedia for years with little issues that could not be resolved": ; April 2012
 * Edit warring at niggerling; August 2012

Edits showing lack of lexicographical skill:
 * ; January 2012
 * ; March 2012

Vote:
 * Votes/2012-07/Blocking of Luciferwildcat

Editing pattern:
 * Creating shoddy entries, more of which are unattested than is usual with other editors.

--Dan Polansky (talk) 10:03, 12 August 2012 (UTC); updated --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:48, 12 August 2012 (UTC); updated --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:32, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want more, just search on "Lucifer" or "LW" at WT:RFC, WT:RFV, and WT:RFD. You also missed his IP address, which he has used like an alternate account. There are additionally more incidents and older blocks, including a one from a while ago given by Atelaes (see his talkpage for more). --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:42, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't find anything all too interesting using the searches you have proposed. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

English definitions from Wiktionary in a relational form
Today, I have discovered that an export of English Wiktionary is being published that only contains English terms with their definitions in a relational format, as four tab-separated columns. This is so nice! The file is much smaller than a full dump (50 MB after unpacking), can be copied and pasted to Excel and then filtered using Excel filtering tools, can be grepped while you see both the term and the definition in the result line, can be copied to Excel after grepping, etc.

The definition files location:
 * http://toolserver.org/~enwikt/definitions/
 * enwikt-defs-20120821-all.tsv.gz - English Wiktionary, all languages
 * enwikt-defs-20120821-en.tsv.gz - English Wiktionary, English terms only

The result of 'grep "irrationality" enwikt-defs-20120821-en.tsv' (on Windows, you may use "findstr" instead of "grep"):

English	Dada	Noun	# A cultural movement that began in Zürich, Switzerland during World War I and peaked from 1916 to 1920. The movement primarily involved visual arts, literature (mainly poetry), theatre, and graphic design, and was characterized by nihilism, deliberate irrationality, disillusionment, cynicism, chance, randomness, and the rejection of the prevailing standards in art. English	irrationalities	Noun	# English	irrationality	Noun	# The quality or state of being irrational; want of the faculty or the quality of reason; fatuity. English	irrationality	Noun	# Something which is irrational or brought forth by irrational action, judgement, idea or thought. English	unreason	Noun	# Lack of reason or rationality; unreasonableness; irrationality. English	woolly-headedness	Noun	# The quality of being woolly-headed: illogicalness, irrationality.

From what I can see, this has been around since March of 2010. It appears to have been created by.

The relational format is also great for all languages. It is hard to filter on language and definition at the same time using AWB or Wiktionary online search function.

--Dan Polansky (talk) 20:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Transwiki:Dej Buh Stesti
Hi! Is this expression idiomatic/proverbial (entry-worth) in Czech? If so, would you like to move the transwiki into the main namespace? Or if it's not idiomatic, let me know and I'll delete it. - -sche (discuss) 21:05, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be "dej Bůh štěstí". It seems to be a salutation. It seems to be a literary one; I have never used it myself and never heard anyone saying that. Google books finds a couple of hits, including in Sebrané spisy Boženy Němcové, 1906, "V tom přišli už hosté do koliby. — „Dej bůh štěstí!" pozdravili. — „No, daj bůh, daj bůh," — odpověděl ...". It reminds me of grüß Gott. Similar salutations that come to mind include "pozdrav Pánbůh", "Bůh s tebou", and "s Bohem" (actually "sbohem" in modern Czech). I seems borderline idimatic or at least phrasebook-worthy, although it would be poor phrasebook users who would try to use this phrasebook gem in a Prague pub :). --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:26, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Question on guideline
Please help me to understand, as I am obviously unaware of the proper protocol for making edits here on Wiktionary. Do I need to create an RFV or RF(whatever) for any changes that I deem necessary or just the ones that you don't agree with? You actually don't need to answer that as it is a rhetorical question, to demonstrate the absurdity of your percieved thought process. I just want to clarify the guidelines as I understand them are to do constructive edits as I see fit. If I am verifying a definition and I see an incorrect sense, I am supposed to change that and fix it. If we put out RFV for all changes nothing would get done. I honestly wish I do not upset you with my responses as I merely wish to edit peacefully and be corrected amicably when my editting is incorrect. Speednat (talk) 00:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Your post probably relates to User_talk:Speednat and your edit in.
 * If you want to remove definitions, you typically need to use RFV or RFD. There are rare cases when it is obvious that a definition can be removed, but, most often, when an editor cannot attest a definition, he sends it to RFV via to see whether other editors can attest it. Just recently, I could not attest English "angulus" so I have send it to RFV, and, soon enough, an editor linked to attesting quotations. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Restricting translations to lemma 2
Another batch of AWB editing, this time a tiny one. See also. , ,
 * #edits: 8
 * Worklist search term: see the first regex in the replacement pair
 * Replacement pair:

--Dan Polansky (talk) 19:14, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Edit summary: restrict adjective translation to lemma
 * An example edit:

Queries on English definitions
Look what you can do with

grep "\(arrogant\|conceited\|proud\).*person" enwikt-defs-20120821-en.tsv | cut -f2-

arriviste	Noun	# upstart, newcomer, late arrival, nouveau riche, parvenu, generally characterised as an ambitious, brash or arrogant person who has yet to integrate with his or her new social group. bashaw	Noun	# A grandee; a self-important or arrogant person. bastard	Noun	# A contemptible, inconsiderate, overly or arrogantly rude or spiteful person. See asshole, sod. bighead	Noun	# A person having an inflated opinion of himself; a conceited or arrogant person. cock of the walk	Noun	# A proud or conceited person. cock of the roost	Noun	# A proud or conceited person. coxcomb	Noun	# A foolish or conceited person; a dandy. inflated	Adjective	# Pompous; arrogant (of a person or ego) pajock	Noun	# A proud or ostentatious person. proudling	Noun	# A proud or haughty person. swellhead	Noun	# An arrogant or conceited person. wisenheimer	Noun	# A self-assertive and arrogant person; a know-it-all or smart aleck. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:32, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Cool, but I wish we had this kind of stuff built into Wiktionary, rather than having to mess about with downloads and "dumps" and command lines. There are few Web sites that would benefit more from some kind of semantic database format. Equinox ◑ 20:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree. Unfortunately, I don't see a straightworfard way of achieving this in Wiktionary. Restricting a plain text search (not regex) to one language would already help a lot. At least, a couple of Wiktionary editors are not too shy with command line, so I find it good to know the option is there. I have downloaded the dump once, and now I can query it as often as I wish. --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:02, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

držitel and pork rind - two questions
Ahoj,

Mám dvě otázky.

 * 1) I suspect držitel has only neutral meaning and doesn't mean a military occupant, see Talk:occupant.
 * 2) What's the singular of vepřové škvarky? Is it vepřová škvarka? Feminine or masculine? See pork rind. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Re: 1: I don't think "držitel" is used in the sense of military occupant. But frankly, I cannot think of a sentence in which I would translate "držitel" as "occupant", in any sense. "Držitel" was added in by . In case of doubt, "držitel" can just be removed.
 * Re: 2: The singular of "škvarky" is "škvarek".
 * --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:38, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Děkuji. There's some problem with vepřové škvarky - the gender is not displayed using . (I didn't notice that you were the creator, otherwise, I wouldn't ask the second question). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:21, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Hullo, it is ‘Pilcrow’ (Seth) again. I am not a Slavicist myself, but I must say, your labours on Wikisaurus are generally quite good. In a particular, I like Wikisaurus:burger because it is very thorough, and it is interesting to be aware of all of the many types of hamburgers. A little nitpick is that ‘gardenburger’ and ‘whaleburger’ are missing, but that isn’t a big deal. I appreciate how you want to enrich the project, even if I do not always show it.

So…would you like to be friends? --Æ&Œ (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I am puzzled. In any case, I wish you many good edits in Wiktionary. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:41, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Crouchy
Hi Dan. Can you revisit your vote at Requests for deletion in light of my revisions to Crouchy? Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 18:26, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for citing the entry. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:52, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

neurčitek
Czechs use infinitiv. Cheers. ;-) --Kusurija (talk) 06:08, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "neurčitek" is attested in Google books, but "infinitiv" seems much more common in Czech indeed. Good catch. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to consult with me about czech terminology ;-). --Kusurija (talk) 07:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

What is one word
A word (aka "lexeme") is a collection of inflected forms. This is not a definition, merely a statement to clarify that a word can appear in printed text as different strings of characters. As an example, "does" and "did" are word forms belonging to one word. However, "doer" (noun) is not an inflected form of "do" and is a different word.

When do two uses of a particular string of characters belong to one word, and when do they belong to two words? My tentative answer is that two uses with different etymology belong to two words and that two uses with different part of speech belong to two words. Any two uses that share etymology and part of speech belong to one word. Thus, same-spelled words are distinguished by either of etymology and part of speech. By means of example: "paper" in "made of paper" and "paper" in "papered" belong to two words per different part of speech; "sound" in "it made a loud sound" and "sound" in "The Sound of Denmark, where ships pay toll" belong to two words per different etymology. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Just in case you wonder ...
... about and : I accidentally clicked a rollback link instead of the link above it. -- Gauss (talk) 21:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Votes/pl-2012-12/Removing phrasebook
Do you support removing the phrasebook? —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 21:42, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I probably don't. But I want to find out how much the "nuke the whole phrasebook" thing expressed in WT:RFD is supported. --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:57, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that forcing a vote is the best way to do that. I think it would be better to just ask on a discussion-page. —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 22:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A vote is an excellent way of documenting what editors support, I think. The vote can be easily found later by searching for "phrasebook". The passage of CFI proposed by the vote for removal entered CFI without a vote, so a voted attempt at a removal seems worthwhile, whatever the result. A discussion page is too low-profile for getting input from as many people as possible. The phrasebook has been repeatedly a contentious issue, with too little clear indication of where the public opinion is directed. ---Dan Polansky (talk) 22:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

 * I agree with Dan's idea. Would also be good to have CFI, so that the phrasebook doesn't become a mockery. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:42, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem with the vote is that I don't think it will determine what editors support: the specific question in the vote is so superficial as to be almost meaningless. I suspect that while many editors want to keep the phrasebook no matter what, many other editors' opinions will totally depend on what the options are. This vote doesn't give any options — there's no actual proposal to vote on — so editors can't meaningfully vote. —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 02:23, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe a lot of editors can meaningfully vote, either in support or in opposition. From what I can see, the editors who have left the following comments in RFD can vote in support:
 * "just nuke the entire phrasebook"
 * "If I'm asked, delete the whole g-mn phrasebook"
 * 'Would any like to have my proxy to vote "delete" on RfDs about other entries that have been included solely because of the phrasebook "project"?'
 * Re: "there's no actual proposal to vote on": This sentence seems wrong given that a vote states a proposal that the authors of the above-listed comments seem to support, if I understand their comments correctly. Please, if you think you can set up a better vote, do so, but in a separate vote. If other people ask that your vote is run before my vote, I am okay with that, and my vote can be postponed. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:38, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Fête's block on French Wiktionnary
Check here and you'll have right answers to your questions. Ĉiuĵaŭde (talk) 17:59, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Czech translation please
Hey Dan, I recently came across this Czech book with a long note in it that I'm very curious about. If you're willing to translate it for me, it's the third and fourth pages in this album. Ultimateria (talk) 16:53, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm disinclined to translate the Czech handwriting for you. By translating it, I would not improve Wiktionary in any way. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sometimes, people do things for other people just for the sake of being kind. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dan Polansky/2012


text:
Category talk:Species entries using missing specific epithets

This is to be populated by a special-purpose template that will attempt to address the reluctance of those supporting Latin to include all specific epithets as Latin. Those species entries that have redlinks for the specific epithets will appear in this category. Those that link to an existing entry but not either a Latin or Translingual L2 section will appear in other categories (possibly three: mul, la, unk). DCDuring TALK 20:35, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
withstrain

Etymology
From, equivalent to.

Verb

 * 1)  To restrain.
 * 2) * 1889–1892, in Cambridge Sermons: Preached Before the University in St. Mary's Church 1889-1892, page 215:
 * Even when this is known, [only] with difficulty is the multitude withstrained from doing sacrifice to a Paul and a Barnabas.
 * 1) * 1919 August, in The Pacific Unitarian, volumes 27, number 7, page 2 (170):
 * Her ambition became boundless and her patriotism an obsession. Her pride was in her power and she held weakness in contempt. Withstrained by no scruples she placed her reliance in the sword,
 * Her ambition became boundless and her patriotism an obsession. Her pride was in her power and she held weakness in contempt. Withstrained by no scruples she placed her reliance in the sword,

title: withstrain


text: mandaríes

title: mandaríes


text: mandaríemos

title: mandaríemos


text: mandaríeis

title: mandaríeis


text: mandaríen

title: mandaríen


text: mandái

title: mandái


text: mandáu

title: mandáu


text: satellite phones

title: satellite phones


text: mandao

title: mandao


text: withdrove

title: withdrove


text: mandaos

title: mandaos


text: withdriven

title: withdriven


text:
User talk:Speednat/2012

Block
I do not show that your username is blocked, and I do not have privilege to reference the IP address. Please email me your IP address if you are comfortable doing so and would like for me to investigate further. Otherwise there are other channels you can pursue. DAVilla 05:17, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

You seem to have e-mailed me using [[special:emailuser/msh210]] about SemperBlotto's blocking and reverting you. As you alluded to in the e-mail message, he quickly lifted the block. I'll skip that for now, then. As to the reversions to [[torque]], they seem to be correct. (Specifically, the same definition should not appear twice in the same entry, not even once as "" and once as "...necklace...".) Once you questioned the reversion, as you did in your edit summary of 05:33, 10 May 2012, by citing a dictionary, any future reversion should have come with an explanation IMO — but it did, as the next reversion coincided with an explanation ("There is no point in duplicating the definition") by the reverter on his talkpage in a discussion you were taking part in. Now, that explanation was a little terse (doesn't really explain that he means "duplicating the definition" within the same page as distinct senses, and you may have thought he meant "duplicating the definition" in the two entries), and communication could have been clearer, but I don't see any wrongdoing. I do hope you continue your good streak of productive editing; welcome. You might also wish to see help:Interacting with humans. —msh210℠ (talk) 15:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Clearly I am not the only administrator you contacted about this. I have edited torque into the form I think is correct, and I believe satisfies the requirements set forth by everyone involved.  Hopefully this settles the matter concerning that particular entry.  However, in reference to SemperBlotto, you must understand that he is among the more prolific (and well respected) editors on this project.  Additionally, he is one of the few editors who does regular patrolling, which of course attracts flak his way.  If he sat down and had a full-fledged discussion with everyone who took issue with one of his reverts, that's all he would ever do.  So, he is admittedly brusque.  He is also very experienced on this project, and was right where you were naive.  Your claim that torque should be the primary spelling was correct, but you made mistakes concerning Wiktionary formatting in your attempt to rectify this, and didn't take proper heed when they were pointed out by SB.  I strongly suggest that, in the future, if you are reverted by an administrator or other experienced Wiktionary editor (there are few people who fall into the latter but not the former), that you consider the reverted entry strictly off-limits until they say otherwise.  There is simply too much content, and too few administrators here to properly administer it all, and so we have no time to spare to mollycoddle new editors.  We are generally happy to answer questions, but if you start an edit war with us, we will simply block you because we can't waste the time to do otherwise.  If you have any comments or questions, I'm happy to address them, and they can be left here, I'll be watching.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 18:45, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Etymology formatting
Hi Nathan,

Thanks for your recent etymology edits! We share an interest in etymology, so I’m delighted to have more editors working on this! your edit to was good and helpful (I was kinda wondering where that was from myself); I’ve polished it some at this edit to give an idea of formatting. The page Etymology, while rather long, has a lot of helpful pointers, and I’d encourage taking a look at it.

Some specific notes: If you do the above, your edits will be fine!
 * Link to etymons (using ), even if it’s a red-link.
 * We only don’t link when the term is reconstructed, hence won’t have a page.
 * Reference if possible
 * If you could add footnotes, or at least list sources in a “References” section, that would be very helpful (I see you make assiduous use of references). The Reference templates make life much easier!
 * Latin verb lemma form is first principle part (first person present)
 * Many dictionaries give Latin infinitives in etymologies. At Wiktionary, we use the first principal part instead as the lemma (basic entry), and consider the infinitive as derived. Thus, in etymologies, please use the first principal part. (I don’t know Latin and didn’t realize this, so it caused a lot of headache for the poor Latin editors!)
 * Use if you don’t know a script.
 * I see that you often list Sanskrit cognates (I find this quite interesting as well!). Since dictionaries rarely list Devanagari (and I suspect you’re not familiar with it), it’s fine to just list Roman characters and tag with an so editors familiar with this script can fix it. (It categories it into Category:Entries which need Devanagari script, subcategory of Category:Entries needing various scripts.)

You might want to fix up for practice, following model at.

That said, an imperfect etymology (accurate but imperfectly formatted or incomplete) is much better than no etymology, so please feel free to do as much or as little as you have time and energy for.

You’ll notice (in my edit to ) that I also added further etymons (going back to Proto-Indo-European), and native English cognates or direct borrowings of earlier terms. This is not necessary, and takes time, but it’s a nice touch.

If you’ve questions on specific words, please bring them up at the Tea room, while if you’ve general questions on etymologies (esp. formatting) that are not answered at WT:ETY, you can ask at the WT:BP, or ask me or other editors directly. Thanks again, and looking forward to being pleasantly surprised at new etymologies!
 * —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 01:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Note that how far back an etymology should go is not entirely settled. I would prefer that such an etymology not list the PIE, stopping at Latin.  However, there is no consensus on the issue, and so editors are more or less free to do as they see fit.  However, just about everything else demonstrated by Nbarth is official policy followed by all experienced editors.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:38, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Thanks Atelaes!
 * Nathan – as Atelaes notes, there is some disagreement about some aspects of etymology (as with other aspects). Notably, if a word is a compound at some stage, then tracing back the etymologies of every constituent part can potentially make the etymology explode and is generally avoided. A less substantial but rather contentious issue is usage of “from” vs. “<” in etymologies. There are also some disagreements about treatment of borrowings vs. native inheritances, etc.
 * My personal preference is to use “from”, to trace etymologies back to PIE if possible and not distracting, and to mention significant cognates of earlier stages; this is preference, not policy. The bulleted list (link, reference, etc.) is pretty settled and basic policy though.
 * —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 08:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * A few other points:
 * etc.
 * I messed up the formatting above (sorry! corrected now) – when using you need to include the script name for it to be categorized properly, as in.
 * Etymologies on lemmas, not regular formations
 * We don’t include etymologies for regular formation, but only on the lemma, to avoid redundancy (this is widely followed policy). However, we do include separate etymologies on closely related terms, or if a form was separately borrowed, rather than being formed in English (I think this is widely accepted, but there may be some dissent).
 * For example, is just  +  (verb form, used as adjective), so  is sufficient; there’s no need to repeat the etymology (I’ve fixed this).
 * —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 08:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

oscillate
The Latin oscillatus is not a "part participle", as Latin has two separate past temses. Please describe such forms as "perfect passive participles". --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Abkhazia
Hi. I think you added the pronunciation of Abkhazian here. :) Double-check my correction please. —Internoob 05:53, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

 * I am not sure if what you did is correct or not, as my references do not list it that way. Thanks for catching my mistake though. I will see if I can do some research on that spelling. Speednat (talk) 17:26, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not necessary to add {context} to context templates (like {nautical} and {obsolete}). Read for information on where to use it. Ultimateria (talk) 19:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

 * I just want to make sure that I am not creating any messes that need cleaning up. It seems to say here that I should use them.Speednat (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it. You'll pick up the proper format quickly. One thing though: I think you're confusing ɳ with ŋ . Honestly, the template's only use is if the first parameter is something that doesn't have a template (e.g. as opposed to creating ). Otherwise it is superfluous. Ultimateria (talk) 23:58, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

IPA
Please note that pronunciations should start with an asterisk (*). Thank you, Mglovesfun (talk) 10:35, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

aardvark
I have been utilizing a solid reference book. Chambers dictionary of etymology, and it seems that the word aardvark existed well before 1833, but it was an afrikaans word. It was first used in an english language publication on 1833. Also, I was under the impression that the etymology section would be where you would put when the word was created since that is what etymology is about is defining--- the creation of the word, history etc. My book that I am using if you want to look it up has an ISBN # of 0550142304. Any pointers or advice would be appreciated. Speednat (talk) 08:19, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the OED has citations from 1822 and 1785. That is the problem with giving specific dates in etymology sections: they are liable to be superseded quickly. Instead, we use on the end of definition lines (which is what I did for aardvark:). Ƿidsiþ 15:29, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Category:Egyptian Egyptian
Will this be useful? Is enough known about Egyptian even to know any difference between Egyptian used in Egypt and used elsewhere? Mglovesfun (talk) 10:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I am not totally sure what I am doing here, I was trying to create a regional label for Egyptian words that are used in the english language, as in Ab -- just created If it is wrong, please let me know what I am doing wrong, thanks Speednat (talk) 10:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Just put it in the definition, I guess would be ok, see  for example. But  means a term is used in Egypt. Context labels aren't to be used instead of definitions (which is why  got deleted) but to clarify them. So if something is used in reference to Egypt, you can put 'In Egypt'. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

abdominous
What did was standard here. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:58, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Inflected forms
Hello, this isn't a 'policy' but I find it confusing when plurals are tagged with context labels. For examples in quarks the definition wouldn't be #  as it implies that there's a different plural when quark is used outside of physics. In fact this isn't the case, the plural of quark is always quarks! Mglovesfun (talk) 20:48, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Mg is right, context labels should not be used on plurals unless the plurals themselves are restricted in their usage. For example, [[shoon]] is correctly described as the archaic plural of [[shoe]], because there are other plurals of shoe that are not archaic. Similarly, context labels shouldn't be used on alternative forms unless the alternative forms are restricted to / typical of particular contexts (e.g. [[militarise]] is correctly described as the UK variant of what is in the US spelt [[militarize]]).
 * A context label on any entry (singular or plural) implies the term is chiefly used in that particular context — hence I've removed "ethnography" from [[Abenaki]], because the people are definitely referred to outside the context of a narrow social science (like like [[German]]s are). - -sche (discuss) 17:51, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for creating [[Abnakis] and those other new entries, though. Keep it up. :) You'll get the hang of Wiktionary's admittedly sometimes-unclear policy on context tags soon, I think. - -sche (discuss) 18:03, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I got what you are saying, and I will try to make sure that the context categories make better sense, thanks for your advice Speednat (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Abkhas:
This is the same as Abkhazian:, no? Perhaps it should just be an alt. form? 50 Xylophone Players talk 01:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

 * I am realising that just now. My dictionary has Abkhas and Abkhasian but not Abkhazian. I will fix,. Speednat (talk) 01:16, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Broken template
Hullo. A template in an etymology you created is not functioning. Would you like to fix it ? Do you require assistance? --Æ&Œ (talk) 03:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done thanks.

IPA transcriptions
Thanks for adding the missing "agent" sense to aborticide! I tweaked the pronunciation you added. In speech, the "t" in "aborticide" is often a "d"-like sound, you're right (though it's an alveolar flap [ɾ] rather than a true [d]), but in "broad transcriptions" like we give between /slashes/, we don't get that fine-grained (we just use /t/). You could give a very precise transcription between [brackets] — many users, including me, find those useful — but then you also have to carefully mind things like aspiration ([t] is distinct from [tʰ]), which is why I don't add them often. If you have any questions, let me know. :) - -sche (discuss) 04:17, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am still learning about the IPA sections. Where would I find more info on the details that you are talking about. I have some pages bookmarked here on wiktionary, but they don't seem detailed enough to help me. Speednat (talk) 19:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

 * The IPA you added to [[aboulia]] and [[aboulic]] suggests that the words are pronounced with the first syllable sounding like the word "eye". The way I've heard them pronounced, the first syllable is either /eɪ/ (like "day") or frequently just /ə/. If you take a look at IPA pronunciation key, we have a decent overview of what the symbols mean. It might be good to familiarise yourself with them before you add more pronunciations. IPA and the pages on the individual symbols also have a lot of detailed information and audio examples of the sounds. - -sche (discuss) 06:13, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Thanks for catching my mistake. I do understand the IPA well enough, I just made a mistake. but again thanks for catching it. Speednat (talk) 06:18, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Webster's Third definitions
Are you copying Webster's Third definitions into Wiktionary, word for word? An example of this would be at absolutely convergent, whose definition differs from Merrian-Webster: absolutely convergent only by "if"-->"when" replacements. (Curiously, I can access the Merriam-Webster page when getting to it after googling the Witionary definition, but not by clicking the hyperlink above.)

If you do, please stop. Entering definitions word-for-word from Webster'S Third is likely to constitute a copyright violation, regardless of whether you reference your source. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:11, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not copying word for word. On some, absolutely convergent being one, I may not have mixed it up enough. I will adjust my work, if you feel it may cross the line. Speednat (talk) 07:27, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Re: "I may not have mixed it up enough": Sorry? You have not mixed it up at all, right?
 * The thing is, I do not have a ready access to Webster's Third, so I won't be able to verify case by case whether you have crossed the line. If you are systematically going throught the content of a single dictionary by alphabet and entering their content, even if rephrased, that could create trouble, as you do not know what extent of their originality your have rephrased away. A more secure way of entering content from other dictionaries is to work with at least three dictionaries, and base your phrasing on the content of all three. In any case, you should aim at significant rephrasing, which is not what you have done at "absolutely convergent". --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:40, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Like I stated above, on a rare few words, I may not have mixed it up enough. Although if you want to argue semantics, you are more than welcome to say not at all if you desire. Also, like I stated above, since someone has called me on it, I will stop. I do not want to cause a problem for Wiktionary. Granted, on some words, I know I got a little lazy, especially if it was late, because I struggled with rephrasing them. I am normally very cognizant of copyright issues. Also, I do use multiple dictionaries, I have four open at any one time, but I do appreciate the advice, and the concern. Speednat (talk) 07:53, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

abaissé
This is strictly French, and is an adjective, not an adverb. The English term used in heraldry is abased:. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:04, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

 * It is included in Websters Third New International Dictionary, with a definition of " heraldry abased" and it does show adjective, did I write adverb? Let me know what you think. I think it seems to be saying that it is a "much" lesser used variation on the word, but still a valid word.Speednat (talk) 02:09, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

 * The Manual of Herladry (1846), utilizes the word abaisse as a proper word to be used instead of abased.Speednat (talk) 02:15, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I did a search on books.google.com and found a plethora of references to both abaisse and abaissé, with the former being the more popular. Most references are in Heraldry dictionaries and they point out the fact that the word(s) if French, and is synonymous with abased; however they also point out that they are both valid English words. I am going to re-add the definitions with references and quotes from some of my sources. Please let me know if you disagree or ...Speednat (talk) 03:00, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Abbetdin
I have sent Abbetdin to WT:RFV, as I cannot attest it per WT:ATTEST. Just that you know, a reference to a dictionary does not count as attestation. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:28, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Abderian
Why did you remove a definition from Abderian in ? The definition is sourced from Webster 1913 and Century 1911. The next time you want to remove a definition, you'd better send it to RFD or RFV using. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:34, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I did not remove any definition. If you took care and read my reason for change, you would have noticed that I "moved" it to the non-capitalized version. I was under the impression that we as editors were to "edit" the entries. Not just use a copied version of Websters 1913 as bible and move on. My sources showed that there was a non-capitalized word, along with the the capitalized word. I then did some searching on google.books for any use of the "foolish" definition as a capitalized instance, and found none. Does that mean there are no instances? No, but I couldn't find any, rather than just changing it back, if there are instances other than, as you so succintly pointed out in your discussion of Abbetdin, a dictionary source, then please share, so we can move on. Speednat (talk) 23:31, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You couldn't find any quotations => send it to RFV to see whether other people can find any. We do not need to trust Webster 1913; we can send its terms and definitions to RFV. But it seems rash to remove definitions that are present in Webster 1913 without any process. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:29, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

abderite
I cannot attest "abderite", which you have entered, so I have send it to RFV. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Copyright of etymologies
Just so you know: My understanding is that if you take an etymology from a copyrighted source and insert it into Wiktionary, that is a copyright violation. I am not saying that you are doing that, but if you do, you would do well to stop. If you argue merger doctrine for etymologies, that is a major thing, to be discussed in Beer parlour. As if we can accept merger doctrine for etymologies, we can import etymologies wholesale from commercial dictionaries. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

abbassiāre
Hullo. Do you think that this term is an alternative form of ? I found that form from Etymonline. This is just somewhat confusing for me since I am not sure if both are safe to create appendix entries for. --Æ&Œ (talk) 23:47, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

taxlink
It only does what it does for taxonomic names, not vernacular names. It is designed to create lists for adding taxonomic names that we are missing while linking to wikispecies or a wiktionary entry if we have one. Take a look at the categories created at Category:Entries using missing taxonomic names and some entries. Let me know if there are problems with it. DCDuring TALK 08:52, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, it now requires a second parameter, indicating what kind of taxonomic name: species, genus, family, etc. DCDuring TALK 08:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So, I should not use it on "bird" but do use it on "Aves", in essence, correct. Thanks. I saw that you used it and I thought a cool new template for me to abuse :) Speednat (talk) 16:00, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Shouldn't "Passer domesticus" be entered both words together as a binomial.I thought that is what I saw you do yesterday, the first time I saw that template in use. It makes sense to link to Passer domesticus, it does';t make sense to link to domesticus, or at least as much sense.

Speednat (talk) 20:21, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

US vs GA - GenAm
Hello again! I notice you've been changing to  in a number of entries. Personally, I see no reason to change "US" to "General American" in most cases, but if you do, you should use, because that one's actually an accent template (Template:accent:GenAm) and links to General American the way "US" links to American English. It should be possible to either redirect Template:accent:GA to GenAm to catch all the pre-existing entries, or bot-change all the "GA" entries (so that no-one has to change them by hand), but I'll ask Mglovesfun about that because I notice he deleted Template:accent:GA back in 2009. - -sche (discuss) 02:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * no problem, I thought I read about a month ago that if you used the standard IPA then RP and GA were correct and if you used the extra diacritics like ˤˠʵⁿ, then US or UK were to be used. I did a quick search for that info and can't find it, but I remember being dismayed when I read it because of all the US's I had already typed. But I can change back if needed.

Speednat (talk) 02:29, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Oh, a bot can change all the s to or  as needed; no need to do that by hand.
 * As for ˤˠʵⁿ: those are used in narrow transcriptions in [brackets], and not in broad transcriptions in /slashes/; such transcriptions can be given for any dialect, so the issue of UK vs RP and [tʰi] vs /ti/ are two different issues, I think. Admittedly, Wiktionary's documentation of IPA-related policies and practices is scattered and incomplete, and could use an overhaul. I'll ask at the WT:ID for more input to be sure. - -sche (discuss) 02:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No prob. I will just keep on then except leaving the US's alone. Thanks for the input Speednat (talk) 02:44, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * GA could refer to Georgia, the US State. I'll leave for the moment but if another admin wants to delete it, it's with my blessing. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:55, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point, and we do have entries which use other state abbreviations, such as "NY". Can your bot change all the "GA"s to "GenAm"? It should be easier for us to glance over a list of the bot's edits to make sure no Georgian accents were mis-corrected, than to correct all the GenAms by hand. - -sche (discuss) 19:01, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, there were only four, did it a few minutes ago. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:07, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh hang on there are loads but AWB is not picking them up and I don't know why. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:42, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed using a workaround that really shouldn't work at all, but it did, so let's not complain! Mglovesfun (talk) 19:56, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

ref syntax in definitions
The first obvious problem is that you're listing the references at the bottom and using inline references which also go to the bottom, so you have the same information twice consecutively.

As I said, in terms of WT:CFI secondary sources, sources that are not usage but record usage such as dictionaries count for literally nothing when it comes to whether a word is allowable or not. See Appendix:English dictionary-only terms for one reason why. It's not so much that dictionaries sometimes get things wrong, which they do, but that we don't intended to mirror other dictionaries, but rather built a dictionary from the ground up. Oxford, Chambers, Collins (etc.) don't use the same criteria as us so it's normal that our content isn't identical. Also using inline references could get a bit silly, such as cat: "A domesticated subspecies, Felis silvestris catus, of feline animal, commonly kept as a house pet." Surely that doesn't require a reference.

Thank you, Mglovesfun (talk) 20:27, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

 * As far as the double reference problem goes, I realized what I was doing was not "wiktionary" style, I was on Wikipedia mode, and have since changed over to the inline citation showing all the pertinent information, not creating the redundant footnotes section and then having the references tag on the references section. See abaht. Also I utilize the inline references as far as definitions go, only on oddball definitions, but mainly on attestation dates, etymologies, etc. I don't want to type in a bunch of info to have it deleted, but I do feel in those situations it is useful to the site and its users.

Speednat (talk) 20:41, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, in you need to specify what the date you're adding means. You seem to mean ‘from 17th c.’ (or whatever), but you need to say that. Otherwise it looks like the term in question was only used in the 17th century (and I have indeed tagged many such senses in that way). Generally we say ‘from 17th c.’ (meaning it's still in use), or ‘17th-19th c.’ (for obsolete words). Ƿidsiþ 17:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I wish people would tell me these things before I get this far. Thanks anyway. I will adjust what I do from now on; however the problem wouldn't have occurred if the template had some documentation. What should I do about all the defdate's I have done already? Speednat (talk) 17:12, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't worry too much. I'll fix them if I see them. You're right of course; the template really needs some documentation. Ƿidsiþ 17:14, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Template:borrowing
Please be careful to use the parameters right! See this change, for example. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:30, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My bad, although I was not finished yet, as I had just pulled up the template page to verify the arguments, since that is not one I have memorized yet. But thanks for catching that within the minute of my posting it :). Speednat (talk) 00:33, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I usually mess up on that one too, probably because it's rather uncommon. Thanks for checking yourself, by the way! —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:34, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

habundance
You've listed this as an obsolete Middle English word. That doesn't make any sense, all Middle English is obsolete. It's a bit like calling a Sumerian word 'dated'. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not true. I'd use for a very Anglo-Saxony term that became rare after the 13th century, like . This is English, though. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:40, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems like it's Middle English, found a 15th century cite from Chaucer. Not sure about whether the modern English is citeable, actually. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:45, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

title: User talk:Speednat/2012


text:
cīmət

Etymology
From late, from , , from , , from , , from. Compare 🇨🇬 and especially archaic.

Noun

 * 1) cinnamon (spice)

title: cīmət


text:
aukaspyrna

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  free kick

title: aukaspyrna


text: Category:wym:Spices

title: Category:wym:Spices


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/ nl-decl-determiner/reply (4)

Maybe it should be collapsible?


text: pijuna

title: pijuna


text: pijune

title: pijune


text: pijuni

title: pijuni


text:
overuitgave

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) overspend

title: overuitgave


text: pijunu

title: pijunu


text: pijunas

title: pijunas


text: pijunes

title: pijunes


text:
onderuitgave

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) underspend

title: onderuitgave


text: pijunis

title: pijunis


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/ nl-decl-determiner/reply (5)

I'm not even sure what that user intends to do with it. Maybe you could talk to them?


text: pijunus

title: pijunus


text:
User:Speednat/Useful pages

 * IPA Guide
 * IPA Guide older
 * Language templates for etymological information
 * Context labels
 * Rhymes
 * Start of the multipage rhymes for English
 * Context labels
 * Rhymes
 * Start of the multipage rhymes for English

title: User:Speednat/Useful pages


text:
svine

Noun

 * 1)  "hog", "pig", "swine"

title: svine


text:
knöttur

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) ball

title: knöttur


text:
svinas

Noun

 * 1)  "hog", "pig", "swine"

title: svinas


text: mandaes

title: mandaes


text:
svines

Noun

 * 1)  "hog", "pig", "swine"

title: svines


text:
svinis

Noun

 * 1)  "hog", "pig", "swine"

title: svinis


text:
svinus

Noun

 * 1)  "hog", "pig", "swine"

title: svinus


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/ nl-decl-determiner/reply (6)

I'd guess he wants to include it on each determiner entry. He already included it on [[hoe]].


text:
framlag

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) contribution

title: framlag


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/ nl-decl-determiner/reply (7)

Wow... yeah that is a bit overboard!


text:
meðlimur

Etymology
Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) member

title: meðlimur


text:
Körpergewicht

Noun

 * 1) bodyweight

title: Körpergewicht


text: Frühchens

title: Frühchens


text: saltabes

title: saltabes


text: saltábemos

title: saltábemos


text: saltabeis

title: saltabeis


text:
Kühlmittel

Noun

 * 1) refrigerant, coolant

title: Kühlmittel


text: saltaben

title: saltaben


text:
ਸੂਰਜ

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  sun

title: ਸੂਰਜ


text: kernphysikalischer

title: kernphysikalischer


text: kernphysikalische

title: kernphysikalische


text: kernphysikalisches

title: kernphysikalisches


text: kernphysikalischen

title: kernphysikalischen


text: kernphysikalischem

title: kernphysikalischem


text: kohlenstofffaserverstärkter

title: kohlenstofffaserverstärkter


text: kohlenstofffaserverstärktes

title: kohlenstofffaserverstärktes


text: kohlenstofffaserverstärkten

title: kohlenstofffaserverstärkten


text: kohlenstofffaserverstärktem

title: kohlenstofffaserverstärktem


text: konstruierter

title: konstruierter


text: konstruierte

title: konstruierte


text: konstruiertes

title: konstruiertes


text: konstruierten

title: konstruierten


text: konstruiertem

title: konstruiertem


text: kosmogener

title: kosmogener


text: kosmogene

title: kosmogene


text: kosmogenes

title: kosmogenes


text: kosmogenen

title: kosmogenen


text: kosmogenem

title: kosmogenem


text: kostenintensiver

title: kostenintensiver


text: kostenintensive

title: kostenintensive


text: kostenintensives

title: kostenintensives


text: kostenintensiven

title: kostenintensiven


text: kostenintensivem

title: kostenintensivem


text: kostenintensiverer

title: kostenintensiverer


text: kostenintensivere

title: kostenintensivere


text: kostenintensiveres

title: kostenintensiveres


text: kostenintensiveren

title: kostenintensiveren


text: kostenintensiverem

title: kostenintensiverem


text: kostenintensivster

title: kostenintensivster


text: kostenintensivste

title: kostenintensivste


text: kostenintensivstes

title: kostenintensivstes


text: kostenintensivsten

title: kostenintensivsten


text: kostenintensivstem

title: kostenintensivstem


text: kovalenter

title: kovalenter


text: kovalente

title: kovalente


text: kovalentes

title: kovalentes


text: kovalenten

title: kovalenten


text: kovalentem

title: kovalentem


text: kubischer

title: kubischer


text: kubische

title: kubische


text: kubisches

title: kubisches


text: kubischen

title: kubischen


text: kubischem

title: kubischem


text: saltesti

title: saltesti


text: saltestis

title: saltestis


text:
reģistrācija

Etymology
From. Clearly not formed in Latvian, but borrowed as such from some other European language.

Noun

 * 1) registration the act or process of registering, recording

title: reģistrācija


text: saltaríes

title: saltaríes


text: saltaríemos

title: saltaríemos


text: saltaríeis

title: saltaríeis


text: saltaríen

title: saltaríen


text: saltái

title: saltái


text: saltáu

title: saltáu


text: saltao

title: saltao


text: saltaos

title: saltaos


text: saltaes

title: saltaes


text: entrabes

title: entrabes


text: entrábemos

title: entrábemos


text: entrabeis

title: entrabeis


text: entraben

title: entraben


text: entresti

title: entresti


text: entrastis

title: entrastis


text: entrestis

title: entrestis


text:
Mulder

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Translations

 * Afrikaans: Mulder
 * Dutch:

Statistics

 * According to the 2010 United States Census, Mulder is the 4822nd most common surname in the United States, belonging to 7317 individuals. Mulder is most common among White (92.59%) individuals.

Etymology
From.

title: Mulder


text:
Scully

Etymology 1
Reduced Anglicized spelling of.

Statistics

 * According to the 2010 United States Census, Scully is the 4060th most common surname in the United States, belonging to 8747 individuals. Scully is most common among White (93.61%) individuals.

Etymology 2
Named after, fictional FBI agent in the American science fiction series , who acts as a skeptical foil to the conspiracy theories of fellow agent Fox Mulder.

Verb

 * 1)  To be skeptical toward (a person or situation) with ideas that do not coincide with conventional wisdom.

title: Scully


text: Zimte

title: Zimte


text: Zimtes

title: Zimtes


text: entraríes

title: entraríes


text: entraríemos

title: entraríemos


text: Duchovny

title: Duchovny


text:
demokratizēt

Etymology
From. Clearly not formed in Latvian, but borrowed as such from some other European language.

Verb

 * 1) to democratize to make (something) democratic, to make (something) more democratic

title: demokratizēt


text:
chwys

Etymology
From, from , from , from.

title: chwys


text: entraríen

title: entraríen


text: entrái

title: entrái


text: Category:Latvian terms suffixed with -izēt


text: entráu

title: entráu


text: reģistrācijā

title: reģistrācijā


text:
-izēt

Etymology
Ultimately from, itself from ; found only in words borrowed from other languages (compare 🇨🇬, , 🇨🇬, Spanish, Portuguese , 🇨🇬), 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬).

Suffix

 * 1) Usually added to foreign nouns or adjectives to form verbs with the sense "to make (something) be (what is denoted by the original noun or adjective)".

title: -izēt