text:
Wiktionary:Tea room/2011/December

=December 2011=

AFAIK
Hello guys. My question is: how do English-speaking people pronounce this ? --GaAs 18:53, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I just read it out: as far as I know. That generally takes less time and is easier for me to say than to spell it out verbally: ei ef ei ai kei. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 19:24, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Same, I only use this as an Internet short hand, I would never say it out loud. Having said that, I have started saying OMG out loud, which I'm not exactly proud of... Mglovesfun (talk) 19:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean sthng like /əfɛɪk/ (sorry, I'm very bad with english IPA) is not used ? --GaAs 20:56, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've never discussed it with anyone until you posted your question, and have never heard anyone say it (not even myself, I don't think), so don't know how people pronounce it. I've always imagined it pronounced as as far as I know. —msh210℠ (talk) 18:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ditto. (Similarly SFAIK, AFAICT, SFAICT. But I take IIRC to be an initialism. I couldn't say why.) —Ruakh TALK 03:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe it has something to do with the number of syllables in each form. Although honestly I use OMG and WTF all the time as initialisms, despite "double-you" having three syllables and "what" having one. Although I use them purely for comedic effect. There's nothing comedic about AFAIK. --Robert.Baruch 00:51, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * gets enough hits to make it conceivable that someone, somewhere, will someday find a way to use for comic effect. :-)   —Ruakh TALK 15:49, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't speak it aloud, but in my head it's always sounded like "aff-AY-ik". Equinox ◑ 15:27, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * For me, like "a fake" (too lazy to do the IPA, sorry). Mglovesfun (talk) 12:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

practice to achieve perfection
I can't remember where I recently read the sentence "SirEdmundHillarywasthefirstmantoclimbMtEverest" followed by the same sentence spelled backwards. This was used as an example of repetitious practice to achieve a level of proficiency in any field. I thought I read it in "The Genius in All of US' by David Shenk. It was not. Has anyone seen this anywhere?
 * I fail to see your point, sorry, please explain further. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:23, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

checksyns template
There is the template on the psychopath page. I'm not sure what to do about it since sociopath seems to be a general synonym for the senses of the definition. RJFJR 02:36, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Does sociopath fit sense 4? It looks like there are many missing synonyms. Collins has "madman, lunatic, maniac, psychotic, nutter (Brit. slang), basket case (slang), nutcase (slang), sociopath, headcase (informal), mental case (slang), headbanger (informal), insane person" as synonyms. They don't fit all the senses given. It seemed like a lot of work, but worth doing (eventually) if we are to maintain an ability to convey the colloquial distinctions. DCDuring TALK 01:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This might be a job for Wikisaurus. DCDuring TALK 01:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

meme
"Examples include thoughts, ideas, theories, practices, habits, songs, dances and moods and terms such as race, culture, and ethnicity." What does this mean? That, for instance, the word "Caucasian" might be a meme? Equinox ◑ 15:26, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've wondered whether this kind of thing would be better defined by a . DCDuring TALK 01:58, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll just chip in and say I don't understand it either. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the sentence should be deleted. It is encyclopedic. The definition given seems adequate. DCDuring TALK 09:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

white ball
In combination of watching the snooker and reading the debate on nominative case et al., I wonder if white ball, red ball (and so on) would be acceptable. They're often just shortened to 'white', 'red' and so on and I think they definitely need an entry at white, red etc. But what about white ball? It is a ball that's white after all, but has specific implications in pool, snooker and other billiards games. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Meh... accelerator pedal is a pedal that's an accelerator, but it has specific details in vehicles (e.g. it's located in a certain position relative to the other two pedals). That's encyclopaedic. Equinox ◑ 22:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

 * If you look into Category:en:Snooker you will find that all the colours already have snooker definitions. -- A LGRIF  talk 14:58, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

cylinder
This is missing a computing sense (as in, the cylinders of a hard drive), but I don't know how it should be defined. -- Liliana • 21:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Added. SemperBlotto 08:32, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Rubber
I was reading in The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the chapter entitled "The Red-Headed League". A Mr. Merryweather, who is a bank director, says, "Still, I confess that I miss my rubber. It is the first Saturday night for seven-and-twenty years that I have not had my rubber." Sherlock Holmes replies, "I think you will find that you will play for a higher stake to-night than you have ever done yet, and that the play will be more exciting." I wondered if the "rubber" that he is referring to is the soft covering for a finger used to count money - like a rubber thimble, or if it is something else. Does anyone know?

 * It's a best-of-three game of bridge, the card game. See rubber bridge. Equinox ◑ 23:19, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

triple O
This would far more commonly be written triple 0, right? A phone number 12045 would usually be read out "one-two-oh-four-five" but never written 12O45. Equinox ◑ 23:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I would expect so. A search of Google News confirms it, finding only 29 "triple O", only half in English and very few in the meaning given vs. 189 "triple 0"s. DCDuring TALK 09:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Triple zero = triple 0 = triple oh = triple O. Transitivity doesn't carry that far in the humanities. I would consider it to be an error. DAVilla 16:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

fantastical
Does fantastical really mean fantastic (as in extraordinary), and if so shouldn't the sense be more clearly explained? DAVilla 03:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

acinaces plural
Is acinaci a legitimate plural of this? Equinox ◑ 13:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

comptroller
"The p is optionally silent, thus comptroller may be a homophone of controller." Huh? Since when does m sound the same as n? Equinox ◑ 23:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * In New York State and its cities, comptroller is an elected office usually pronounced "controller". DCDuring TALK 09:56, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Even if that isn't just a malapropism, wouldn't the inflection still vary? It should be stated that it's a near homophone which makes pronunciation of the p all that more significant. DAVilla 16:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It is pronounced that way in the swearing-in ceremonies for the offices. That is the first pronunciation given at MWOnline. DCDuring TALK 19:08, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't dispute that it may be a homophone of controller, but I do dispute that that pronunciation is the obvious "visual" pronunciation of comptroller with a silent p. This would require an m sound turning to an n sound. Equinox ◑ 21:40, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not just a homophone, it's also the same word and it has the same etymology. The spelling was influenced by French but if anyone pronounces the m or p, it would be a . —CodeCat 22:57, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, fine, but see my original comment in this discussion. I think it's inaccurate. Equinox ◑ 00:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You must be saying that if "the p is optionally silent" it would be pronounced comtroller. Well, it is not what the explanation wants to say. The p is silent, and the m is pronounced n, just like controller. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 04:37, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Then I really don't understand the explanation. Am I stupid, or will this be even more confusing for most casual users? Equinox ◑ 03:37, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * @Equinox: I completely agree. @everyone else: The problem isn't the statement that "comptroller may be a homophone of controller"; the problem is the statement that this is so because "[t]he p is optionally silent". Silencing the <p> does not, by itself, turn the "COMPtroller" pronunciation into the "conTROLLer" pronunciation. —Ruakh TALK 18:43, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * But I think the question has been answered incidentally, I mean what other answer do we want other than the one(s) we have? Mglovesfun (talk) 19:06, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

prowl
"To be watching over something. It's tough to sneak vandalism into Wikipedia as there are plenty of other users prowling the recent changes page." The usex is believable, but does it really mean "watching over" rather than (say) patrolling or hanging around it? Equinox ◑ 10:57, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Moved usage example. Not sure if definition is legit. DAVilla 16:12, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * An early Wonderfool entry. As a result, should be given a rewrite. --Simplus2 20:00, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

peace
I don't understand how this could be more than 2, maybe 3 definitions. How would you classify these?

 * May he rest in peace.
 * Peace on earth, good will torward men.
 * Peace be with you.

DAVilla 16:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Our second definition, "A state free of oppressive and unpleasant thoughts and emotions", has an example sentence with "peace of mind". I suspect this sense requires "of mind" or similar, and that it's actually just the "A state of tranquility, quiet, and harmony" sense. That latter seems very different from the "A state free of war" sense: people speak of as nation at peace even if there's little tranquility in the country. (We should provide a gloss for state there: it's a status, not a country.) I'm not sure what our current sense 3 ("Harmony in personal relations" means, or whether it's different from the "A state free of war" sense — or, if so, whether it exists. I'm also not sure we don't need a different (countable?) sense, found in separate peace. —msh210℠ (talk) 19:00, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

language templates not used - why?
I'm looking for the discussion on language templates such as for English etc. I wonder if those templates are available why are they not used in the translation section. Can anyone give me a link to the discussion in the tea room archive? I couldn't find it. Kampy 19:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The translation section alphabetizes by language name, which is hard for people to do when editing manually and seeing language codes. (It's also more for code for bots then.) I seem to recall that that's why we use the names, but could very well be wrong. —msh210℠ (talk) 19:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I see. Thank you. Kampy 19:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It also puts too much template burden on a page download when all the translations have different templates for their own languages. Each template takes time to decode and render, and for pages with many definitions, this can hugely slow down user access to the information. --EncycloPetey 03:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This doesn't really matter, because the translation template includes those templates anyway. —CodeCat 15:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It does. Page load is calculated for every use of a template. If you use ten times in an entry, it has ten times the load of a single transclusion of . -- Liliana • 16:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

zero gravity

 * 1) The state of apparent weightlessness which occurs when in free fall.
 * 2) A state/shuttle/simulator which produces weightlessness.

I'm not sure exactly what sense 2 means, but is it not just listing examples of sense 1? —Michael Z. 2011-12-14 00:12 z
 * 1 is a state (situation); 2 is a machine. —msh210℠ (talk) 00:32, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Not getting it. Does shuttle mean “space shuttle?” I can't imagine how or when such a device is called “zero gravity.” Other dictionaries aren't helping me. Citation? —Michael Z. 2011-12-14 03:54 z
 * You are getting it, then. (Well, if I am, then you are.) 2 is, yes, a space shuttle. Like you, I've never heard of this meaning of zero gravity; perhaps or ? —msh210℠ (talk) 05:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I'm quite certain that a space shuttle doesn't produce weightlessness. Having stared at this for a day, I believe it is nonsense. A bit of rewriting and rfv-sense, I think. —Michael Z. 2011-12-14 15:10 z

 * WT:RFV. —Michael Z. 2011-12-14 15:30 z
 * It definitely produces weightlessness. Anyway, the sense 2 seems to be a nonsense. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 18:00, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Being in free fall, including being in orbit, leads to weightlessness, enshuttled or otherwise. A shuttle can be used to put you there, but to say that the machine “produces” the state implies some mechanism that doesn't exist. —Michael Z. 2011-12-15 01:11 z
 * More precisely, being within any free-falling object produces a state equivalent to that of "weightlessness". However, "weightlessness" is a misnomer as the object does not actually lose all weight during its fall; objects simply are not resting against a static surface.  "Weightlessness" can occur in a falling elevator, at the crest of a roller coaster, or inside a plane specially designed to free-fall with astronaut trainees inside.  So, the second "definition" results from attributive use of the noun's primary definition and is not distinct. --EncycloPetey 03:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

post
In the entry for post, there's a bit of overlap. Some meanings are mentioned under both Etymology headers. --Simplus2 10:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Acromyrex: shouldn’t it be Acromyrmex?
Hello, I typed by error “acromyrex” on Google and found there was a page on en.wikt, but I suspect this is an typo/spello too. However, being quite incompetent in taxonomy, I can’t say that fore sure (but I searched the Max Planck Gesellschaft and the University of East Anglia websites in addition to Wikipedia before posting). --Eiku (t) 17:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. My mistake from 2006! Now moved to the correct spelling. SemperBlotto 17:06, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

tank

 * 1. A container for liquids or gases, typically with a volume of several cubic metres.
 * 6. In USA scuba divers' usage, a compressed air or gas cylinder.

Why should 1 be limited to large tanks, and 6 to USA scuba divers? To me, welders use medium-sized acetylene tanks, a barbecue has a small propane tank, and a camp stove may have a very small (liquid or gas, refillable or disposable) fuel tank. On the other end of the spectrum, oil companies and water utilities use tanks of many thousands of cubic metres capacity. Also, fuelling a car is “filling the tank.”

Any objections to merging these into one general sense? —Michael Z. 2011-12-15 17:09 z
 * Go for it. SemperBlotto 17:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

IMDb
Can someone help me with capitalization and Wiktionary? We currently have IMDB which redirects to IMDb as the "correct" capitalization. I'm trying to add the verb form, to IMDB someone. In print sources, I've got two "IMDB him"s and two "IMDb her"s (note the capitalization) in independent sources. I've got a bunch of hits on Google Groups for "IMDB him" or "imdb him" and a couple for "IMdb him", and one more for "IMDb him". (I've got an "Imdb him", but it seems like merely sentence-initial capitalization.) So. Do I just add everything to IMDb? Do I make entries on IMDB, IMDb, and imdb for verbal forms? (And IMdb?) IMDB is arguably wrong, I'd argue imdb and IMDb are both acceptable variants (though any use should be tagged casual or whatever the equivalent is) and IMdb seems clearly wrong.--Prosfilaes 04:58, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I replaced the redirect with alternate spelling since we generally do not use redirects. RJFJR 14:59, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

sure
Is the interjection real, or is it just the adverb sense with an exclamation point (or comma) after it? —msh210℠ (talk) 06:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

 * An interjection is not a part of speech, it is a word or phrase uttered as an exclamation with no particular grammatical relation to a sentence. Interjections are comprised of words of various parts of speech, often adverbs. —Stephen (Talk) 21:14, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

ABBA
"(poetry) A rhyme in which the first line of a stanza (A) rhymes with the fourth line, and the second and third lines rhyme (B)." Yes. But doesn't this open the doors for all kinds of poetical structures (for example ABCB is well known)? It isn't an initialism, doesn't stand for anything; the letters are "variables" for specific rhymes, if you like, making this more akin to a statement like 2a+3b (math equation) which we clearly would not include. Equinox ◑ 03:35, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Kith and Kine
I think this is an eggcorn of kith and kin. Albeit, an old one. The word kith more generally refers to friends and acquaintances while kin refers to family ... thus kith and kin means "friends and family". The word kine is an archaic plural of cow. So kith and kine would mean "friends and cows". Kin and Kine would make more sense than kith and kine. Other than a play on words in a book or articles about cows/animals, I haven't found "kith and kine" used. In ME English there are many spelling variations that could lead to this confusion:
 * Oþer whyle þou muste be fals a-monge kythe & kynne. ... and here kynne = kin.

I'm having trouble believing this is anything other than a mistake for kith and kin unless used more literally:
 * By the end of this disaster, the Bull stands amidst the corpses of kith and kine. ... Is he standing among the corpses of friends and family or friends and cows? --AnWulf ... Ferþu Hal! 17:18, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

 * As the editor who added this, I agree with you. I think from memory I added it as some kind of special request.. but I share your analysis of it. < class="latinx" >Ƿidsiþ 17:53, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe the meaning should be changed? I looked on sundry pages with a Google search and didn't find any usage along the line of "relatives and property; one's total possessions". If no objects, I'll put the first meaning as an error for kith and kin ... As for the other meaning, it looks more like someone trying to backform a meaning from the error (like folks backformed a meaning for "hone in", an error for "home in"). I think it should go unless someone can find a few usages of it with that meaning but I'll leave that yu. --AnWulf ... Ferþu Hal! 14:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The attitude of not having to answer to anyone
Is there a word or phrase that describes the attitude or ideal of not having to answer to anyone? 74.82.68.160 20:24, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Headstrong? Recalcitrant? ---> Tooironic 09:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I am "my own man/woman"? --Robert.Baruch 22:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

baking/roasting
Is there any methodical difference between baking and roasting in oven, or is it just that some foods you bake and others you roast? --Hekaheka 05:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, you bake stuff in an oven, while you can roast things in an oven OR over a fire. Of course, collocations vary; normally, one says, "Let's bake a loaf of bread!" not "roast a loaf of bread". ---> Tooironic 09:20, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A baked potato is very different from a roast potato, but I can't explain how. Equinox ◑ 14:27, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

 * To me, baking implies the application of dry heat within a container (oven), whereas in roasting the thing being cooked normally lies in a liquid (e.g. fat), or is basted with a liquid during cooking. SemperBlotto 14:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, that explains the potatoes. You can bake a potato in a microwave or conventional oven, and you're basically just heating it up. But a roast potato is cooked in meat fat (right?) so it ends up golden and crispy. Also, a roast one tends to be peeled first, while a baked potato is done with the skin on, but that's a cultural / fried egg thing. Equinox ◑ 15:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Chestnuts roasting on an open fire isn't lying in a liquid, for one example of why I don't think that's the proper distinction between the two, although I cant say what the distinction is, exactly. Roasting on a spit is another, I think, though typically what's being roasted has liquids inside, such as animal or game meat. sewnmouthsecret 08:47, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

home is where the heart is
"One's true home is where one feels happiest." Really? I thought this proverb meant something like, "Your home will always be the place you feel the most affection for, regardless of whether it is your true home or not." ---> Tooironic 09:58, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

 * McGraw-Hill has both: "People long to be at home.; Your home is whatever place you long to be." Equinox ◑ 14:26, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There is also home is where the hearth is, which brings up many Google hits. I don't know if this may be the original form of the phrase, but it would make sense because it corresponds more closely to the Dutch equivalent, eigen haard is goud waard. —CodeCat 19:42, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

nuclear as rhyme
Are these edits sound? ,. The stress doesn't seem right for a rhyme: it's NU-clear, not nu-CLEAR. Equinox ◑ 15:08, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Undid those edits independently of this thread. A lot of users 'mistakenly' add rhymes based only on the last syllable, which is not what we do here. The IPA in the entry clinched it for me. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm amazed at the number of people, some of them well educated, who seem to think that nuclear rhymes with avuncular!   D b f i r s   23:09, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

insolent
How are these definitions any different from each other? How can "rude" constitute a single definition when rude itself has five meanings? DAVilla 12:48, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Rude might not have had 5 senses at the time when insolent was created. There is probably work to be done there. Equinox ◑ 00:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

mechanic
Why is this in "Category:English politically correct terms"? Equinox ◑ 23:22, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ditto person. Sure, policeperson is PC, but just person? Equinox ◑ 01:46, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Also -person is a peculiar entry --Simplus2 13:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Robin Lionheart seems to have added a couple of hundred of these last year - most of which look like being simply gender-neutral rather than politically correct. For a lot of them, I can't even think what a gender-specific version might be. 81.142.107.230 16:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

-handed
Surely this isn't a suffix! Everything here should be moved to handed, IMO. Equinox ◑ 12:55, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Add -goaler and -looking and -cheeked and -headed to this debate. Maybe this part should be linked from these pages. I dunno how to do that. --Simplus2 13:10, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, delete/merge everything. It's a misunderstanding than using a hyphen for affixes is a notation used by dictionaries (for example, to distinguish between re and re-) while something like two-headed uses an actual hyphen. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:35, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Merged. Equinox ◑ 00:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

raindeer
This term is marked as an obsolete spelling, but I think the spelling is still used, although considered nonstandard. Could it be both? —CodeCat 19:33, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It can be. (I don't know that it is, but believe you.) You can use or similar. —msh210℠ (talk) 08:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems to be very much in use. A Google search gets 2,7 million hits. Msh210's suggestion looks fine. --Hekaheka 00:18, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd have to agree with here, this is still very much in use. -- Cirt (talk) 23:35, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

road works
I'm surprised this entry doesn't exist yet. Can it be added, since we already have roadworks? —CodeCat 20:38, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

 * seems to be significantly more common than, so WT:COALMINE says yes. —Ruakh TALK 21:48, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

leading
I was thinking of adding an adjective sense of leading: meaning "playing a primary role in a film or similar", as found in the phrases undefined:, undefined:, etc. Then I realized that it might be a verb (lead:). But turns up nothing relevant; likewise. So maybe it's an adjective after all — but I'm not confident enough saying so to add it. Thoughts? —msh210℠ (talk) 08:14, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * and leading role You could be right. COBUILD has it as an adj. and gives leading actor as an example. Includes two more senses (although I'm hard put to see much difference between the them :-/) as leading industrial nation and leading group (in front in a race). -- A LGRIF  talk  15:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Though the collocations with "man" and "lady" are limited to performances and seem like live metaphors when applied outside of theatrical type performances, other collocations of "leading" such as "leading role" don't seem so limited. Apparently some professional lexicographers think these are not transparent: and . In contrast we don't have leading man and leading lady. DCDuring TALK  18:49, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I would say it's a verb:
 * *She is the very leading lady.
 * *The lady became leading.
 * If it were an adjective, those should probably work.--Brett 01:41, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * But if it were a verb, then we would say There are two ladies leading rather than There are two leading ladies, wouldn't we? . Another point in favor of adjective would be the Oscar nominations .. Best actor / actress in a leading role. It has to be an adj in this phrase. -- A LGRIF  talk 14:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "There are two running ladies" works. So does "best juggler in a moving vehicle". —msh210℠ (talk) 00:55, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My point being that an English L1 speaker sees the difference! Basically because of recognizing the adjectival sense in There are two leading ladies. -- <i>A LGRIF </i > talk 14:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

parent of my child
What's the word in English meaning "parent of one's child"? There is one, right? If not, do other languages have a word for this? --Simplus2 12:34, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, there's baby mama and baby daddy, but those terms are somewhat loaded. I think for most of history people just said "the father/mother of my child" in any case where "husband" or "wife" didn't cover it. —Angr 14:36, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't we use the terms biological father and biological mother? As in, say, "my son Timmy's biological mother"? --Robert.Baruch 22:26, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Just "my son Timmy's mother", no? —msh210℠ (talk) 19:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * In Dutch "The father of my child" is used to explain in one sentence: "We are divorced, I hate him, and that's how got my son". Joepnl 01:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

 * The term exists, and IMHO is usually pretty clear in context, but is not terribly common. I wouldn't expect most people to recognize it. —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 02:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

let the buyer beware
Isn't this a proverb, as opposed to a verb? ---> Tooironic 23:43, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Seems pretty amateur to me. —Michael Z. 2011-12-29 04:03 z
 * I've never actually heard it, but it doesn't look like a proverb, too literal, looks more like a verb use only in the infinitive and the imperative (same as the infinitive of course). Mglovesfun (talk) 15:36, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

 * It is more usual in the Latin - see Caveat emptor. SemperBlotto 15:39, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * buyer beware is usually a catchall phrase for consumers making purchases or signing up for services; often these services are confusing to the general public, i.e. purchasing real property, buying a car, signing up for phone service, buying jewelry from shady street vendors, etc. I'd say it can be taken proverbially and literally. sewnmouthsecret 08:41, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thought I've seen both usages, it's more common as simply, buyer beware. -- Cirt (talk) 23:34, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

push (early Australian slang)
"Push.—A company of rowdy fellows gathered together for ungentle purposes." (from The Songs of a Sentimental Bloke/The Glossary); What C.J. Dennis really means is a violent gang. Several Wikipedia articles refer to a push but other that this, I can't find a formal definition. See for eg. Sydney Push, Rocks Push, The Songs of a Sentimental Bloke.

It would be good to added into the push article. Moondyne 14:22, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

up the aisle
I feel sure we should have this, for example and, quite how to define it, I don't know. I also don't think the sense should be at aisle, but rather at up the aisle. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:01, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've had a stab at it. Feel free to improve (and add citations). SemperBlotto 08:39, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks pretty good so far. ;) -- Cirt (talk) 23:32, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

dictionnaire de langue
French includes a useful distinction between dictionnaire de langue (a dictionary providing definitions + linguistic information, such as etymology, pronunciation, gender, etc.) and dictionnaire encyclopédique (a dictionary including in some entries encyclopedic information, e.g. the causes of a disease, how it is treated, etc., as well as linguistic information ; generally speaking, most entries about proper nouns are 100% encyclopedic, while only some of the other entries include encyclopedic information). I understand that only the first kind of dictionary is traditional in English, but what are the English names for dictionnaire de langue and dictionnaire encyclopédique? Would not be useful to be more precise when describing the difference between Wikipedia and Wiktionary e.g. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, Wiktionary is a language dictionary? Lmaltier 08:50, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the second one is encyclopedic dictionary. --Simplus2 08:59, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, not really. It's mainly just a language dictionary with some extended features.  It deliberately avoids encyclopaedic material.  In English, dictionary nearly always means just a language dictionary.    D b f i r s   23:03, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So, language dictionary may be used in English? I would use it to refer to the project, mainly for people used to encyclopedic dictionaries (in some countries, best-selling dictionaries are encyclopedic dictionaries). The fact that we include proper nouns when they are words (for etymology, pronunciation, etc.) may be misleading because, unlike Wiktionary, almost all dictionaries including proper nouns are encyclopedic dictionaries (except some specialized dictionaries, e.g. those specialized in placename etymologies). Of course, this is a huge plus of the project, especially for pronunciation: I don't know any other dictionary systematically giving the pronunciation of proper nouns, but this difference may be misleading. Lmaltier 08:29, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd regard "language dictionary" as tautology, but that doesn't prevent you using the term to make a clear distinction.  Specialist encyclopaedic dictionaries are sometimes called "A dictionary of" [specialist subject].    D b f i r s   22:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

word request
Is there a word for the style/device of making one aspect of a literary work contrast with another drastically? E.g., making the medium/style of a book contrast with the subject matter (as in Maus*) or having the tune of a song contrast with its lyrics (as in "Copacabana" (w:))?

*Nowadays, there are many serious graphic novels, but I don't think that that was the case when Maus came out. —msh210℠ (talk) 19:45, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Now re-asked elsewhere. —msh210℠ (talk) 06:46, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I look forward to the answer. DCDuring TALK 14:23, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Tea room/2011/December


text: triding

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: triding


text: tridings

title: tridings


text:
hiation

Etymology
See.

Noun

 * 1)  The act of gaping; a gap.

title: hiation


text: hiations

title: hiations


text:
assés

Etymology
.

Adverb

 * 1) enough

title: assés


text:
زرتشتی

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Zoroastrian

Noun

 * 1) Zoroastrian

title: زرتشتی


text:
టేకు చెట్టు

Noun

 * 1) teak tree.

title: టేకు చెట్టు


text:
răscoace

Etymology
Probably from or possibly from a  root, from  +  +.

Verb

 * 1)  to overbake; to overripen

title: răscoace


text:
టేకు కలప

Noun

 * 1) teakwood

title: టేకు కలప


text:
కలప

Noun

 * 1) timber

title: కలప


text:
విజయనగరము

Etymology
From +.

title: విజయనగరము


text:
اندیشه

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) thought; idea

title: اندیشه


text:
Citations:person

 * 1915 July 19, Powell v. State, published in The Pacific Reporter, volume 150, page 93:
 * that he then took out of his pocket a little knife with an ivory handle and opened it, and told her if she did not lay down he would cut her throat; that she laid down, and he tore her person with his fingers, and he then got down on top of her, and while he was thus on her she felt his person in her person; after that they went down to the creek; there he told her to take off her underskirt and wash it In the creek, and he would wait in the shade ; that after she had washed her skirt she looked for him, but could not find him, and she went home and told her father about what the man had done.

body, euphemism for "penis"

 * , transcript, republished in 2006 by Craig Clinton in Mrs. Leslie Carter: a biography of the early twentieth century American stage star, page 22:
 * A: He... He tried to compel me to take in my mouth himself.
 * Q: Mr. Carter held your head and attempted to insert his person in your mouth?
 * A: He did.
 * Q: And that was the first evening after your marriage?
 * A: Yes, sir.
 * 2005, Stephen Murray Robertson, Crimes against children: sexual violence and legal culture in New York City, 1880-1960, page 83:
 * In response to the question "Did [Fletcher] insert his person into you?" she claimed that she did not understand what was being asked of her, but her subsequent answers made clear that she was asserting an ignorance of that particular euphemism, not of the meaning of the act.

title: Citations:person


text:
విజయదశమి

Etymology
From + Telugu.

Noun

 * 1) The tenth day of the month Asvayuja, being the day after the festival to Sarasvati, when all books, arms and instruments of trade are worshipped.

title: విజయదశమి


text:
విజయస్తంభము

Etymology
From + Telugu.

Noun

 * 1) A pillar of victory.

title: విజయస్తంభము


text:
claybed

Noun

 * 1) A bed of clay.
 * The brickmakers lived near the claybed.

title: claybed


text: claybeds

title: claybeds


text:
అంగజాల

Noun

 * 1) sentinel

title: అంగజాల


text: Buketts

title: Buketts


text:
-lu

Etymology
From, from. Compare 🇨🇬,.

Suffix
m/n

 * 1)  the  (e.g., )

Related terms

 * (feminine singular nominative and accusative)

Enclitic

 * 1) and
 * 2) * 1992, Erik Münster (quoting anonymous), "Kinguaassiuutikkut nappaataava", Atuagagdliutit
 * "kl"

- Siggunni seerisut tassaapput herpes taakkulu qallunaatut taaguutit nuannarineqartut "forkølelses- imlt. kyssesår" atorneqarput, kiinami tinupasunut seerisunut, pingaartumik siggunni.

Synonyms

 * aamma

Suffix

 * 1) to him

title: -lu


text: gutterings

title: gutterings


text:
deplication

Etymology
From, from +.

Noun

 * 1)  An unfolding, unplaiting, or untwisting.

title: deplication


text:
antologicamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) in the form of an anthology

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) anthologically in the manner of an anthology

title: antologicamente


text:
barbosamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) boringly

title: barbosamente


text:
unsocialist

Adjective

 * 1) Not socialist; contrary to the tenets of socialism.

title: unsocialist


text:
unsocialistic

Adjective

 * 1) Not socialistic; contrary to the tenets of socialism.

title: unsocialistic


text:
capcase

Etymology
?

Noun

 * 1) A small case or bandbox.
 * 2)  A chest or trunk.

title: capcase


text: capcases

title: capcases


text:
compassatamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) in a composed or collected manner

title: compassatamente


text:
deduttivamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) deductively

title: deduttivamente


text:
duplicatamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) in duplicate

title: duplicatamente


text:
semiderelict

Adjective

 * 1) Somewhat or partially derelict.

title: semiderelict


text:
ebraicamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) Hebraically, Jewishly

title: ebraicamente


text:
fatiscentemente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) in a dilapidated manner

title: fatiscentemente


text:
insanamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) insanely, madly

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) insanely, madly

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) insanely, madly

title: insanamente


text:
gimang

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) a crowd, a mixture

Preposition

 * 1) among

title: gimang


text:
bel-accoyle

Etymology
From +.

Noun

 * 1)  A kind or favourable reception; friendly welcome.

title: bel-accoyle


text:
githring

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) a crowd, a crowding

title: githring


text: impalsied

title: impalsied


text: impalsies

title: impalsies


text:
impalsy

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1)  To strike with palsy; to paralyze; to deaden.

title: impalsy


text: impalsying

title: impalsying


text: sepawn

title: sepawn


text: sepawns

title: sepawns


text: supawn

title: supawn


text: Wallisians

title: Wallisians


text:
Futunan

Noun

 * 1) A native or inhabitant of Futuna.

title: Futunan


text: Futunans

title: Futunans


text:
invection

Etymology
From. See.

Noun

 * 1)  An inveighing against; invective.

title: invection


text: invections

title: invections


text: boomslange

title: boomslange


text: boomslanges

title: boomslanges


text:
widarstanden

Etymology
From.

title: widarstanden


text:
witharstandan

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to resist
 * 2) to oppose

title: witharstandan


text:
witharkuman

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to come back

title: witharkuman


text: Category:Old Saxon terms prefixed with withar-


text:
withar

Etymology
From, cognate with Old English wiþer and Old High German widar (German wieder).

Preposition

 * 1) against, with, opposite, toward (+ dat or sometimes acc)
 * (Heliand, verse 1883)
 * Helpa uuiðar hungre: Help against hunger.

title: withar


text:
sucrate

Noun

 * 1)  A compound of sucrose (or some related carbohydrate) with a base, after the analogy of a salt.

title: sucrate


text: sucrates

title: sucrates


text: serpentinizing

title: serpentinizing


text:
Citations:they

Pronoun: group of people, animals, plants or objects

 * ca. 1599–1601, William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act 3, scene 3:
 * 'Tis meet that some more audience than a mother, since nature makes them partial, should o'erhear the speech of vantage.
 * 2000, Exploring Life Science ISBN 0761471413, page 406:
 * Most animals use their hands to move from place to place; humans use their hands for other tasks.
 * 2008, John E. Cooper, Birds of Prey: Health and Disease, page 20:
 * Raptors use their feet to capture their prey[.]
 * 2014, Ruth Owen, How Do Plants Make Their Own Food?

Pronoun: single person of unspecified gender

 * 1595, Shakespeare, William, The Comedy of Errors, act IV, scene 3, line 1172:
 * There's not a man I meet but doth salute me As if I were their well-acquainted friend
 * Arise; one knocks; good Romeo, hide thyself. Hark, how they knock! Who's there?
 * Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
 * ' (1395) phrases the first part as "man and woman" rather than "man or woman", so that the "they" is plural: "thou schalt lede out the man and the womman, that diden a moost cursid thing, to the yatis of thy citee, and thei''' schulen be oppressid with stoonus."
 * if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
 * Upon which every body fell a laughing; as how could they help it?
 * 2008,, quoted in , Michelle Obama in Her Own Words, New York, NY: PublicAffairs, 2009. ISBN 978 1 58648 762 1, page 18:
 * One thing a nominee earns is the right to pick the vice president that they think will best reflect their vision of the country, and I am just glad I will have nothing to do with it.
 * 2009, The Welfare of Domestic Fowl and Other Captive Birds ISBN 9048136504, page 104:
 * Once a bird who has bonded to a person realises that that person will deny the bird their company for a few minutes because of the biting, the bird then has the incentive to cease biting.
 * 2012 November,, [//www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/11/11/remarks-president-veterans-day Remarks by the President on Veterans Day]
 * No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job, or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home.
 * 2012, Stephen Mason, Electronic Signatures in Law ISBN 1107012295, page 33:
 * Lord Hunter also indicated that the use of a familiar or pet name could be a valid signature provided it was proved that the writer signed their name usually in such a way.
 * 2008,, quoted in , Michelle Obama in Her Own Words, New York, NY: PublicAffairs, 2009. ISBN 978 1 58648 762 1, page 18:
 * One thing a nominee earns is the right to pick the vice president that they think will best reflect their vision of the country, and I am just glad I will have nothing to do with it.
 * 2009, The Welfare of Domestic Fowl and Other Captive Birds ISBN 9048136504, page 104:
 * Once a bird who has bonded to a person realises that that person will deny the bird their company for a few minutes because of the biting, the bird then has the incentive to cease biting.
 * 2012 November,, [//www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/11/11/remarks-president-veterans-day Remarks by the President on Veterans Day]
 * No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job, or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home.
 * 2012, Stephen Mason, Electronic Signatures in Law ISBN 1107012295, page 33:
 * Lord Hunter also indicated that the use of a familiar or pet name could be a valid signature provided it was proved that the writer signed their name usually in such a way.
 * 2008,, quoted in , Michelle Obama in Her Own Words, New York, NY: PublicAffairs, 2009. ISBN 978 1 58648 762 1, page 18:
 * One thing a nominee earns is the right to pick the vice president that they think will best reflect their vision of the country, and I am just glad I will have nothing to do with it.
 * 2009, The Welfare of Domestic Fowl and Other Captive Birds ISBN 9048136504, page 104:
 * Once a bird who has bonded to a person realises that that person will deny the bird their company for a few minutes because of the biting, the bird then has the incentive to cease biting.
 * 2012 November,, [//www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/11/11/remarks-president-veterans-day Remarks by the President on Veterans Day]
 * No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job, or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home.
 * 2012, Stephen Mason, Electronic Signatures in Law ISBN 1107012295, page 33:
 * Lord Hunter also indicated that the use of a familiar or pet name could be a valid signature provided it was proved that the writer signed their name usually in such a way.
 * 2012, Stephen Mason, Electronic Signatures in Law ISBN 1107012295, page 33:
 * Lord Hunter also indicated that the use of a familiar or pet name could be a valid signature provided it was proved that the writer signed their name usually in such a way.

Pronoun: single person of non-binary gender

 * 2014, Sigrid Rausing, Granta 129: Fate ISBN 1905881843:
 * I write 'they' because this is Sean's own 'preferred pronoun': they were born female and have a female body, but identify as 'genderqueer' rather than as 'male' or 'female'. Sometimes, they told me, they experience gender dysphoria
 * 2014, Ivan E. Coyote, Rae Spoon, Gender Failure ISBN 1551525372
 * The boycott, led by Elisha Lim, of a Toronto gay and lesbian newspaper after it refused to use their preferred pronoun ["they"], citing grammar considerations, inspired me.

Pronoun: single person of specified sex or gender
Someone who is just like you and needs a gentle hand to guide them along... So maybe I'll see you there
 * 1951, J. D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye
 * He's one of those guys who's always patting themself on the back.
 * 1965, Petula Clark, Downtown (song)
 * And you may find somebody kind to help and understand you
 * And you may find somebody kind to help and understand you
 * 1995, Philip Roth, Sabbath's Theater ISBN 0547345739:
 * Guys with small dry lips, they turn me off, I often look at their hands to see if they have strong, expressive hands. Then I imagine that they have a big dick.  That guy I had in Aspen,  With a younger guy you know it [erection] 's an easier thing.  Everybody jerks their dick differently.
 * 2008, Kenneth David Chase, Fishing in the Right Pond - Finding and Pursuing Gay Guys in a Straight World ISBN 143483932X, page 57:
 * Your dick is rock hard, dripping with pre-cum, and now you look to see if their dick is hard when when you roll them over on their back. If they have a huge bulge in their pants where their dick is rock hard too, grab it through their pants
 * 2011, Carmen Caboom, Diary of a Vindictive Closet Freak: Love, Loss, Lust and Lies ISBN 1467072990, page 300:
 * Somebody had been getting their pussy eaten, and it wasn't me.
 * 2015 April, (mayor of Baltimore), commenting on the death of Freddie Gray:
 * I'm angry that we're here again, that we have had to tell another mother that their child is dead.
 * 2022 June 4, David Cohen, quoted in "Is it legal for women to travel out of state for an abortion?", Ava Sasani, The New York Times:
 * “It’s hard to tell at this point, but I think it’s likely that [the prosecutors] will go after the people that help the woman get the abortion,” he said. “The person who drives them, the doctor who sees them.”

Pronoun: single animal or plant

 * 1859, A new dictionary of quotations from the Greek, Latin, and modern languages second thousand (London, John Farquhar Shaw), page 34 (translating a Latin proverb):
 * "To the ass, the sow, and every animal, their own offspring appears the fairest in the whole creation."
 * 1887, Hiram Erastus Butler, The Seven Creative Principles, page 60:
 * This law of order, united with the other principles, gives every plant, every vegetable, and every animal their distinct form, by virtue of the quality of the germ-life coming from its parental source.
 * 2008, Tina Ganton, His Image: Photo Devotionals ISBN 1434338312, page 24:
 * As I sat on my deck one morning, I was reminded of God's choir through nature. He has given every bird their own special song. Bluebirds, cardinals, and robins

Pronoun: less-clear citations

 * Are these singular or plural?:

 * 2005, The Bird Observer: The Official Organ of the Bird Observers' Club, Issues 834-845:
 * For such a tiny bird, their wing beats are surprisingly loud.
 * 2010, Theresa West, Sister Theresa's Lighthouse: Collection of Gospel Quotes ISBN 1453521399:
 * “God gives every bird their food,
 * Yes, but he does not toss it into their nests.”
 * 2014, Heather Shropshire, The Dragon Bard ISBN 1493197509, page 12:
 * Depending on the type, raising, and age of the dragon, their interests may change. An example of this can be seen, although this is not exactly the best example, in the desires of a child. The desires of a child change greatly as the child grows older, going from simple toys to wealth.

Noun-ish

 * 1993, John Taggart, Remaining in Light: Ant Meditations on a Painting By Edward Hopper (SUNY Press, ISBN 9780791415061), page 123:
 * While the latter is taken up with all sorts of description of the beloved, description which would constitute the contents of the book, the key to it all is a "they" asking the speaker for such a volume in the first place. Ordinarily, no one asks. Books are written in and against a nul[l] space of hypothetical readers' desire. Once a manuscript has been submitted to a publisher, though, this can change. There is a "they" there. They are the editors and the outside readers hired by the editors.

Noun-ish: an other or group of others

 * 2007, Cynthia Willis-Esqueda, Motivational Aspects of Prejudice and Racism (Springer Science & Business Media, ISBN 9780387732336), page 111:
 * ... then attempts to ameliorate bias should be directed not at eliminating these processes entirely, which are functional in many ways, but rather at redirecting the forces of ingroup bias to produce more harmonious intergroup relations. By shifting the basis of categorization from race to an alternative dimension, shared by Blacks and Whites who may be interacting, we can potentially alter who is a “we” and who is a “they,” undermining a potentially contributing force to aversive racism.

 * 2009, Todd D. Nelson, Handbook of Prejudice, Stereotyping, and Discrimination (Psychology Press, ISBN 9781136642708), page 489:
 * by shifting the basis of categorization from race to an alternative dimension shared by African Americans and European Americans who may be interacting, it might be possible to alter who is a “we” and who is a “they” through recategorization, and thereby undermine a potentially contributing force to intergroup biases. In this chapter, we summarize  research on a prejudice reduction strategy, the common ingroup identity model (Gaertner & Dovidio, 2000; Gaertner, Dovidio, Anastasio, Bachman, & Rust, 1993), which has guided our work on the reduction of intergroup bias.

Noun-ish: a plural, a group

 * 2012, Advances in Homeland Security Research and Application: 2011 Edition (ISBN 9781464931031):
 * .Second, George W Bush was a failed “reconstructive President” who came up short in his efforts to persuade the public and the courts to embrace a constitutional vision of vast, unilateral, and judicially unreviewable  executive branch authority to combat terrorist threats. Third, the Supreme Court is a “they,” not an “it,” whose War on Terror rulings have often reflected, as future decisions are likely also to represent, the chance dominance of the view of the median Justice.

 * 2014, Mark Bovens, Robert E. Goodin, Thomas Schillemans, The Oxford Handbook of Public Accountability (OUP Oxford, ISBN 9780191002571):
 * ... one thing, Congress is a “they,” not an “it,” and furthermore bureaucrats have other principals besides the multiple principals in Congress itself.

Pronoun: single person of unspecified gender

 * 1325, Cursor Mundi:
 * Bath ware made sun and mon,
 * Aiþer wit þer ouen light
 * For to tuin dai fra night,
 * 1382, , 38:31:
 * Eche on in þer craft ys wijs.
 * Each one in their craft is wise.
 * Each one in their craft is wise.

title: Citations:they


text:
witharseggian

Etymology
From. Cognate with 🇨🇬 (🇨🇬).

Verb

 * 1) to object

title: witharseggian


text:
Talk:fuck me

RFD discussion (1)
rfd-senses:

 * 1) Used imperatively when one wants a partner to have sex with oneself, often in a rough manner

And rfd-redundant, 2&3 are the same

 * 1)  An expression of dismay at undesired events happening to oneself.
 * 2)  expression of surprise, contempt, outrage, disgust, boredom, frustration.

My first though seeing the first definition was to add this to Category:English phrasebook which I suspect would have met with opposition. Nevertheless, I don't object to a "used literally" definition with the phrasebook cat, while vulgar I can see why this would be useful to holidaymakers in anglophone countries; I'm merely sensing that this might not be uncontroversial enough for me to do with without further consequences. --Mglovesfun (talk) 22:24, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

 * I could add more translations for the first sense if it's kept. I'd say keep but we'll see what the community says. I think it's useful and not only in anglophone countries and vulgar words and expressions are allowed. --Anatoli (обсудить) 00:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

 * It's hella an interjection that get's used a lot, I hear it all the time!Lucifer 03:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I would say keep, I use this phrase all the time. I can't see any reason to get rid of it. Saimdusan (talk) 15:08, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Kept both for no consensus.--Jusjih (talk) 17:25, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

RFD discussion (2)
I think the sense tagged "literally" should be changed to. And, I hate to say it, but I think its translations should be removed. —Ruakh TALK 02:41, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Convert to - OK, keep the translations. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 06:39, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What Ruakh said, except that I don't hate to say it. —msh210℠ (talk) 20:22, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ruakh and msh210. Translating &lit senses would be mission creep. - -sche (discuss) 23:51, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Converted and translations removed. — Ungoliant (Falai) 22:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:fuck me


text:
Talk:pseudounipolar neuron

pseudounipolar neuron
pseudounipolar + neuron --Hekaheka 08:47, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, now that pseudounipolar is actually defined. ---> Tooironic 22:50, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced this is SoP by reading the definitions, but if neither of the definitions is wrong I could still be missing something. DAVilla 15:28, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If we trust Wikipedia, our current definition of "pseudounipolar neuron" is wrong. It is difficult to write a correct definition without stating that it is a neuron that is pseudounipolar, which makes this an archetypal SoP. --Hekaheka 22:49, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

 * Deleted per Heka. - -sche (discuss) 00:27, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:pseudounipolar neuron


text:
Talk:organic matter

organic matter
One sense: The residues of dead plants and animals in various stages of decomposition. This seems to be wrong. Linseed oil or my sandwich are organic matter whether decomposing or not. If one tries to correct the definition, it seems to become the mother of all SoP's. --Hekaheka 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

 * I thought it was just matter that's organic. Inorganic matter gets 368 hits, suggesting this isn't a set phrase either. --Mglovesfun (talk) 11:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

 * This might be a keeper. It looks like organic matter is more commonly used in this specific sense of decomposition. Of course there is the broader sense you both speak of, the antonym of inorganic matter which is not at all idiomatic, but if this phrase implies a certain state in the life cycle then that's worth noting. DAVilla 06:24, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

 * keep common scientific term.71.142.73.25 20:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Kept for no consensus.--Jusjih (talk) 12:17, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:organic matter


text:
subsultive

Adjective

 * 1) Moving in bounds or leaps; subsultory.
 * 2) * c. 1746-1747,, To the Publisher (unnamed piece, exact date and addressee unknown)
 * This sort of subsultive motion is ever accounted the most dangerous.

title: subsultive


text:
Citations:marriage

union of two or more people

 * circa 1600–1630, Thomas Taylor, sermon quoted in 1653 in The Works of the Faithful Servant of Jesus Christ, Dr. Thom. Taylor, page 501:
 * But Esau, their sonnes marriage [to two Hittites], was an affliction of spirit to them.
 * 1715, Of the Rights of War and Peace (Hugo Grotius), Book II, page 106:
 * but yet neither is Esau's Marriage [to the two Hittites] pronounced void, nor his Children declared Illegitimate, for being married without such [parental] Consent and Direction.
 * 1755, The Holy Bible, both Old and New Testament, Digested, Illustrated, and Explained, second edition, page 59:
 * Of Esau's Marriage and Jacob's Deceit. [...] But Esau, being now forty years of age, took a false step by marrying not only without his parents consent; but with two wives, daughters of the Hittites.

royal marriage (card game sense)

 * 1911, in The Smart Set, volume 35 (George Jean Nathan, Henry Louis Mencken), page 57:
 * "I declare a royal marriage and four aces." Monsieur Alphonse spread the cards at his left hand, marked one hundred and forty points to his score, then carefully drew from the pack.

title: Citations:marriage


text:
witharilian

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to hasten back, to hurry back

title: witharilian


text:
circulatorious

Adjective

 * 1)  Travelling from house to house or from town to town; itinerant.

title: circulatorious


text:
septifragal

Etymology
From +,.

Adjective

 * 1)  Breaking from the partitions; said of a method of dehiscence in which the valves of a pod break away from the partitions, while these remain attached to the common axis.

title: septifragal


text: pungies

title: pungies


text:
pungy

Noun

 * 1) a type of schooner developed in and peculiar to the Chesapeake Bay region.

title: pungy


text:
exustion

Etymology
From, from , , from +.

Noun

 * 1)  The act or operation of burning up.

title: exustion


text:
sclerous

Adjective

 * 1)  hard; indurated; sclerotic

title: sclerous


text:
whitwall

Noun

 * 1) A bird, the whetile.

title: whitwall


text:
depurant

Adjective

 * 1)  depurative

Noun

 * 1)  A depurative.

title: depurant


text: depurants

title: depurants


text: mawmetries

title: mawmetries


text: mawmetry

title: mawmetry


text:
noctivagous

Etymology
From, from , +.

Adjective

 * 1) Wandering at night; nightwandering, noctivagant.

title: noctivagous


text:
tenerity

Etymology
, from. See.

Noun

 * 1)  tenderness

title: tenerity


text:
witharwagian

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to flow back

title: witharwagian


text:
pernor

Etymology
See.

Noun

 * 1)  One who receives the profits, as of an estate.

title: pernor


text: pernors

title: pernors


text: maumet

title: maumet


text:
wogon

Etymology
From ; cognate with 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) tail

Alternative forms

 * wagon
 * -wagian, found in witharwagian (to flow back).

Etymology
From, from.

title: wogon


text:
witharwegan

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to reward
 * 2) to repay
 * 3) to requite

title: witharwegan


text:
spicewood

Noun

 * 1) An American shrub, the spicebush, whose bark has a citrusy taste and odor.

title: spicewood


text: spicewoods

title: spicewoods


text:
witharwerpan

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to reject

title: witharwerpan


text:
werpan

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to throw, to cast

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to throw
 * 2) to cast
 * 3) to drop

title: werpan


text:
withquethan

Etymology
From, equivalent to osx.

Verb

 * 1) to renounce

title: withquethan


text: Category:Old Saxon terms prefixed with with-


text:
withfahan

Etymology
From, cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to withdraw

title: withfahan


text: meta-communication

title: meta-communication


text:
डर

Etymology
,, from.

Noun

 * 1) fear, fright, dread
 * 2) phobia
 * 1) phobia

Related terms
See.

title: डर


text:
tiohan

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to drag, draw, pull

title: tiohan


text:
सहम

Etymology
, ultimately from.

Noun

 * 1) fear

title: सहम


text:
apartiticamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) in a non-party political manner

title: apartiticamente


text:
gradualment

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) gradually

title: gradualment


text:
afgevan

Etymology
From, from , equivalent to.

Verb

 * 1) to give up, surrender

title: afgevan


text: ofgeƀan

title: ofgeƀan


text:
afbrekan

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to break down
 * 2) pluck

title: afbrekan


text:
afheldian

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to go down, end

title: afheldian


text: Category:Old Saxon terms prefixed with af-


text: User:Newbiepedian

title: User:Newbiepedian


text:
biblicamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) biblically

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) biblically

title: biblicamente


text:
User:Mabifixem

Mabifixem

af:Gebruiker:Mabifixem als:Benutzer:Mabifixem am:አባል:Mabifixem an:Usuario:Mabifixem ar:مستخدم:Mabifixem ast:Usuariu:Mabifixem as:সদস্য:Mabifixem az:İstifadəçi:Mabifixem bar:Benutzer:Mabifixem bat-smg:Nauduotuos:Mabifixem ba:Ҡатнашыусы:Mabifixem be-x-old:Удзельнік:Mabifixem be:Удзельнік:Mabifixem bg:Потребител:Mabifixem

bn:ব্যবহারকারী:Mabifixem bpy:আতাকুরা:Mabifixem br:Implijer:Mabifixem bs:Korisnik:Mabifixem

ca:Usuari:Mabifixem ceb:Gumagamit:Mabifixem

cs:Wikipedista:Mabifixem cv:Хутшăнакан:Mabifixem cy:Defnyddiwr:Mabifixem da:Bruger:Mabifixem de:Benutzer:Mabifixem diq:Bruger:Mabifixem el:Χρήστης:Mabifixem

eo:Uzanto:Mabifixem es:Usuario:Mabifixem et:Kasutaja:Mabifixem eu:Lankide:Mabifixem fa:کاربر:Mabifixem fi:Käyttäjä:Mabifixem fr:Utilisateur:Mabifixem fy:Meidogger:Mabifixem ga:Úsáideoir:Mabifixem gl:Usuario:Mabifixem gu:સભ્ય:Mabifixem he:משתמש:Mabifixem hi:सदस्य:Mabifixem hr:Suradnik:Mabifixem ht:Itilizatè:Mabifixem hu:Szerkesztő:Mabifixem hy:Մասնակից:Mabifixem ia:Usator:Mabifixem id:Pengguna:Mabifixem io:Uzanto:Mabifixem is:Notandi:Mabifixem it:Utente:Mabifixem ja:利用者:Mabifixem jv:Panganggo:Mabifixem ka:მომხმარებელი:Mabifixem kk:Қатысушы:Mabifixem kn:ಸದಸ್ಯ:Mabifixem ko:사용자:Mabifixem ku:Bikarhêner:Mabifixem la:Usor:Mabifixem lb:Benotzer:Mabifixem lmo:Druvadur:Mabifixem ln:Utilisateur:Mabifixem lt:Naudotojas:Mabifixem lv:Lietotājs:Mabifixem map-bms:Panganggo:Mabifixem mg:Mpikambana:Mabifixem mk:Корисник:Mabifixem ml:ഉപയോക്താവ്:Mabifixem mr:सदस्य:Mabifixem ms:Pengguna:Mabifixem

nap:Utente:Mabifixem nds:Bruker:Mabifixem ne:प्रयोगकर्ता:Mabifixem new:छ्येलेमि:Mabifixem nl:Gebruiker:Mabifixem nn:Brukar:Mabifixem no:Bruker:Mabifixem oc:Utilizaire:Mabifixem

pl:Wikipedysta:Mabifixem pms:Utent:Mabifixem pnb:User:Mabifixem pt:Usuário:Mabifixem qu:Ruraq:Mabifixem ro:Utilizator:Mabifixem roa-rup:User:Mabifixem ru:Участник:Mabifixem rue:Хоснователь:Mabifixem scn:Utenti:Mabifixem sh:Korisnik:Mabifixem simple:User:Mabifixem sk:Redaktor:Mabifixem sl:Uporabnik:Mabifixem sq:Përdoruesi:Mabifixem sr:Корисник:Mabifixem su:Pamaké:Mabifixem sv:Användare:Mabifixem sw:Mtumiaji:Mabifixem ta:பயனர்:Mabifixem

te:వాడుకరి:Mabifixem th:ผู้ใช้:Mabifixem tl:Tagagamit:Mabifixem tr:Kullanıcı:Mabifixem tt:Кулланучы:Mabifixem

uk:Користувач:Mabifixem ur:صارف:Mabifixem vi:Thành viên:Mabifixem vo:Geban:Mabifixem war:User:Mabifixem wa:Uzeu:Mabifixem yi:באַניצער:Mabifixem yo:Oníṣe:Mabifixem zh-yue:User:Mabifixem zh:User:Mabifixem

title: User:Mabifixem


text:
comunicativamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) communicatively

title: comunicativamente


text: यूँ

title: यूँ


text:
derisoriamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) mockingly
 * 2) ludicrously, ridiculously

title: derisoriamente


text:
llagosta

Etymology
, from, alteration of , of uncertain origin.

Noun

 * 1) locust
 * 2) lobster

title: llagosta


text: llagostes

title: llagostes


text: Category:ca:Crustaceans

title: Category:ca:Crustaceans


text:
ellenisticamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) Hellenistically

title: ellenisticamente


text:
Wiktionary:Votes/2012-04/Languages with limited documentation

Languages with limited online documentation

 * Voting on: Three changes on the the criteria for inclusion page and the creation of one sub-page to address the difficulties in finding adequate source material to attest languages with limited documentation available online. Also, minor changes of "usage" to "use" for consistency and deletion of one instance of the word "or."

At CFI, replacement of (changes are shown in boldface): with

Below that section, between the subsections "Conveying meaning" and "Independent," insertion of the following section (blue text indicates a hyperlink to be added):

In the "Natural Languages" section on the CFI page, the addition of the following section (hyperlinked from the section above):

The creation of a page at CFI/Languages with limited online documentation with the following text (hyperlinked from "other languages with limited online documentation" above and the blue text "languages with limited online documentation" below hyperlinked back to the added section above):

Examples of relevant languages and words  '''Use in extinct languages would not be affected. The following endangered languages would be allowed under this proposal. Items 1 and 2 are courtesy of Metaknowledge, item 3 is courtesy of Ungoliant, and item 4 is courtesy of Xavier Barker:''' '''The following languages are not endangered but have limited written documentation. Items 1 to 3 are courtesy of Metaknowledge and item 4 is courtesy of Christopher Weedall:'''
 * 1) Krio: famble
 * 2) Bislama: ovaspen
 * Category:Hunsrik nouns
 * 1) Nauru Pacific Pidgin - a language in Nauru with about 8000 people documented in only one source
 * 2) Lushootseed: ʔux̌áx̌ƛʼil
 * 3) * 1996 — ed. by Crisca Bierwert, Lushootseed Texts, pp. 124-125: not on Google at all or in the Lushootseed Dictionary by Dawn Bates, Thom Hess and Vi Hilbert
 * ʔux̌áx̌ƛʼil - They screeched.
 * 1) Ditidaht: t’abuuk’ʷ
 * 2) * 1987 — Allis Pakki Chipps-Sawyer, Standing on the Edge of Yesterday: A Dilemma of Oral Knowledge Survival in a West Coast Family [], p. 106 (PDF page 118): not on Google at all even though the PDF is on the Internet
 * t’abuuk’ʷ - Kingfisher
 * 1) Makah: ƛ̓ikatšiƛ
 * 2) * 2002, Matthew Davidson, Studies in Southern Wakashan (Nootkan) Grammar, page 430
 * ƛ̓ikatšiƛ - start walking
 * 1) * 2002, Matthew Davidson, Studies in Southern Wakashan (Nootkan) Grammar, page 430
 * ƛ̓ikatšiƛ - start walking
 * 1) Fiji Hindi: Μετάknowledge notes that the terms for Fiji Hindi already on Wiktionary would not likely pass the CFI
 * 2) Tok Pisin: kaukau
 * 3) Pijin: sios
 * 4) Zarma - a thesis on Zarma is expected in the near future by Christopher Weedall
 * 1) Zarma - a thesis on Zarma is expected in the near future by Christopher Weedall
 * 1) Zarma - a thesis on Zarma is expected in the near future by Christopher Weedall

 * Vote starts: 00:01, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Vote ends: 23:59, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Vote created: BenjaminBarrett12 (talk) 21:27, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Discussion:
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] WT:Beer_parlour
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] User talk:BenjaminBarrett12
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Wiktionary talk:Votes/2012-04/Languages with limited documentation - includes a background and further information
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Relevant past votes
 * Votes/pl-2007-12/Attestation_criteria - a proposed point system for judging attestation
 * Wiktionary_talk:Votes/pl-2010-12/Attestation_of_extinct_languages - includes discussion of defining an extinct language, usage vs. mention, and the term contemporaneous (renamed from Wiktionary_talk:Votes/pl-2011-05/Attestation_of_extinct_languages)
 * Wiktionary_talk:Votes/pl-2011-05/Attestation_of_extinct_languages_2
 * Votes/pl-2011-05/Attestation_of_extinct_languages_3
 * Votes/2012-03/CFI_for_Endangered_Languages - the immediate predecessor to this proposal
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Relevant past discussions
 * Beer_parlour_archive/2010/November - same as "Ancient Greek discussion" link above
 * Beer_parlour
 * Beer_parlour_archive/2007/November
 * Beer_parlour
 * Beer_parlour
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Requests for languages with limited documentation
 * BP
 * Beer_parlour

Support

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support BB12 (talk) 00:25, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:03, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 02:11, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support. Jcwf 02:11, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 03:57, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support --Vahag (talk) 10:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support --Anatoli (обсудить) 01:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support —Stephen (Talk) 11:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support Istafe (talk) 14:19, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support. —msh210℠ (talk) 16:11, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Oppose
Oppose Istafe (talk) 11:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  Dan Polansky (talk) 19:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You realize you can't vote twice, right? You need to choose one, support or oppose. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:54, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain  Probably a good proposal, but: tl;dr. -- Liliana • 13:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Decision
Vote passes 9-1-1. I will modify CFI accordingly. Please note that I have stricken both of Istafe's votes, as it is not allowed to vote twice. In any case, his/her vote did not affect the outcome. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)