text:
User talk:Korn

--Lo Ximiendo (talk) 21:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

thief
"Spelling from Northern England, where /eːo/ became [iə] rather than [eː]."

What did you mean "Northern England" Northumbrian ?

Could you please give an example of the Northern England spelling? ПростаРечь (talk) 15:14, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If I had to guess, I'd think it was Yorkshire Middle English, but I cannot tell you anymore what went through my head at the time. I encourage you to edit the entry into something better. Korn [kʰũæ̃n] (talk) 22:33, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

status of Low German and Frisian varieties
Hi! Have you seen these discussions: Low German, frs and stq? It occurs to me you might be interested in commenting on them. We're trying to decide (1) whether to group all the varieties of Low German under the umbrella "Low German", or give different varieties different ==Headers==, and (2) what kind of Frisian/Saxon/German "frs" and "stq" refer to. - -sche (discuss) 18:27, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Signature.
Hi,

Could you edit your signature to include "Korn" in English letters? Or something recognizably related to that? Because right now, your signature shows up for me as a string of four boxes — not very useful.

Thanks in advance!

—Ruakh TALK 19:11, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

 * (It was in Runic.)

 * (I know. But I don't have fonts for that.) —Ruakh TALK 20:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Nah, that was just in case at some point in the future someone stumbles along and wonders. It would bother me.Korn (talk) 20:21, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Ah, understood. Anyway, thank you for changing it. :-)  —Ruakh TALK 22:42, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Graph
Hi! You changed the pronunciation on from  to. While it's perfectly fine to use [ʁ] in place of /ʀ/ (and in general to change phonemic to phonetic transcription for languages other than English), don't you think that the diacritics on [ä] are too much of a detail? I would claim to be be fairly experienced in German phonetic notation but had to look it up first. I think [a] is perfectly sufficient, or even better. Longtrend (talk) 09:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [a] is not the sound used and thus not the sign to be written. I don't think there can be too much detail in narrow transcription. Wouldn't every missing detail have to be considered a mistake? Korn (talk) 15:12, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think so; abstraction is always there to some degree. IMO the point of the Non-English transcriptions is to show English speakers how to pronounce a word. Too much detail can be impedimental (it's never going to be 100% exact anyway; each realization of a word is different), but of course we shouldn't only have phonemic transcriptions either which require the readers to know a language's phonology. It's also common to transcribe the vowel sound as [a], e.g. on Wikipedia. Longtrend (talk) 18:45, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You wouldn't choose [ɛ] for [ɜ] and you shouldn't use [a] for [ä]. They are different sounds with different IPA-symbols and the purpose of narrow transcription is to depict the pronunciation of words using those IPA-symbols. German words do not have [aː], nowhere in Germany. If you want a less-detailed transcription, use slashes, nothing is wrong with that. Nobody forces you to write '/gra:f/' for a broad, choose /gʁaːf/ if you feel better with that. But brackets simply do not allow such liberties. That we cannot reach a perfect transcription must not mean that, rather than striving for something as close to perfect as possible, we suddenly make narrows that teach the English German with a Dutch accent. (The Dutch have [aː].) Korn (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I must admit that my experience of German phonetics is reaching its limits here, but are you actually sure that nobody uses [a] and everybody (in Northern Germany, as you put it) uses [ɑ]? Because if there's some considerable variation I do believe we should settle for some more or less abstract symbol as a compromise. This seems to be consensus on Wiktionary, see Appendix:German pronunciation where [a] is listed for the sound in question. If you want to change that habit, feel free to start a discussion at the Beer Parlour (I don't really have time for that at the moment); until then, I will continue to use [a]. This blogpost by phonetician John Wells should also be of interest to you. And the problem with putting the more abstract symbols between slashes, as you suggest, is that then you should abstract away from any phonological processes such as final devoicing as well, which isn't helpful at all unless you know all the phonological rules of a language. Longtrend (talk) 23:06, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm rather certain about the situation in Northern Germany, even more so since it is often falsely considered valid for the whole of German. (For example I once read a Polish blog by a Phonologist/Slavist which taught that the Polish 'a' was neither as front as German short A nor as back as German long A.) I think Wikipedia, usually citing respectable phonetic works, agrees. (Especially, Wikipedia calls the German A 'central'). I find your blog post curious, by the way, since this quote seems queer: The Council of the IPA, having previously failed to agree, is again debating the issue of whether to recognize an additional vowel symbol, A, to represent a quality between cardinals a and ɑ. There already is/was at the time a symbol for the quality between, which is: [ä]. I'd like to refer you to one of the comments there, made by 'SH', to sum up my view on the situation. (And the NG example represents the speech of everybody from North of Berlin I've ever met, except that those who don't leave the area often use [ə̯] instead of [ɐ̯].) As for your suggestion considering the beer parlour: I'm confident with just changing the transcriptions myself; I cannot see that a discussion in the BP would lead to any radical changes here. And as a final thought: I'd say you can sum-up near-Standard High German (since standard prbl. isn't found anywhere) into the categories: Austo-Bavarian, Northern German, neither nor. Since that isn't that much, I don't worry much about abstractness. Korn (talk) 14:45, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late reply and thanks for your explanations. As for Wells's comment regarding the lack of a symbol between [a] and [ɑ], I'm pretty sure he means that there is no separate symbol for this kind of vowel. [ä] is just [a] with a diacritic, as opposed to the proposed [ᴀ] which would really be a separate symbol. (Cf. also the Wikipedia entry about this centralized vowel: "While the International Phonetic Alphabet officially has no dedicated letter for this sound between front [a] and back [ɑ], it is normally written ⟨a⟩. If precision is required, it can be specified by using diacritics, such as centralized ⟨ä⟩ or retracted ⟨a̠⟩, but this is not common.") I know of no single pronunciation dictionary of German which uses [ä] rather than [a], even if they put their transcriptions between square brackets which indicate more narrow transcriptions. This is exactly the reason why I will continue to use [a] until there's consensus that this is wrong. Of course, until then you have the same right to use [ä]. Just please don't "fix" my transcriptions (and I won't "fix" yours) so we don't get edit wars. A final thought from me as well: I believe we should offer some easily handable standard transcription between broad, truly phonemic transcriptions (which can be put between slashes) and regionally specified, very narrow transcriptions (which can be put between square brackets), e.g. [gʁaːf] for Graph. I don't see any problems with using square brackets here as well, since the narrow-broad distinction is a continuum anyway. Longtrend (talk) 10:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

"es geben" is not "utter nonsense"
Hallo,

Ich habe "es geben" (there be) als Infinitiv-Übersetzung hinzugefügt. "Es geben" gibt es auch in Wörterbüchern. Es muss ja auch ein Infinitiv geben. Ich denke auch dass in einigen Kontexten "da sein" auch etwas synonymish ist. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 13:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nach "es" kann kein Infinitiv stehen; "es" ist dritte Person singular und erfordert eine dementsprechende Konjugation. Der Infinitiv lautet "geben" und kann nicht personenbezugen sein, denn dann müsste er ja konjugiert werden. Natürlich kann man die Worte "es" und "geben" ohne Bezug nebeneinanderstellen, aber das hat nichts im Wörterbuch zu suchen, da es, wie erwähnt, nur eine unsinnige Nebeneinanderstellung von Worten ist. "Es gibt" und "da ist/sind" sind im Deutschen nicht synonym. Letzteres, zudem, hat wiederum nichts an dieser Stelle zu suchen, da es sich dabei um SOP handelt und der Eintrag zu "there is" ist nicht als SOP gedacht. Fazit: "es gibt" ist die korrekte Deutsche Übersetzung, alle anderen Übersetzungen sind zwar konstruierbar, gehören aber nicht zu diesem Lemma. Korn (talk) 16:10, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In Dutch we can say geen mens mag er zijn "not a single person can there be" (see ). Isn't a similar construction possible in German too? "kein Mensch darf es geben" or something like that? 16:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "Keinen Menschen darf es geben", but here geben is only in the infinitive because "darf" is declined according to "es". So the infinitive of the predicate in that sentence would be "geben dürfen" (zijn mogen), not including "es". "Es" is a pronoun (and nothing else), so "es gibt" (’it gives’) is not akin to the paradigm of "there be", it is akin to the paradigm of "it is". While the specific phrase "es gibt" _means_ "there is", the juxtaposition with the infinitive ("es geben") is exactly and fully the same as "het wezen"/"it be". (Supposing my Dutch doesn’t fail me and that ’be’ is the infinitive not the conditional.) So it does not match as a translation of "there be". And before it comes up: There are phrases like "Es geben zehn Jungen zehn Mädchen einen Ring" (’Ten boys give ten girls a ring’) but here "es" is only there for word-order. You could rephrase those as "Zehn Jungen geben zehn Mädchen einen Ring", showing that "geben" and "es" have no connection what soever here.Korn (talk) 16:32, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I think I understand. The German phrase differs somewhat from the Dutch and English phrases, because es is the subject (since keinen Menschen must be the object), but er and there are adverbs. I think that it would make more sense to treat this as an impersonal sense of, much like . Which it already is, I see... so never mind! 16:45, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You got it, very good example. "Es gibt" is the same as "es regnet" (it rains). The infinitive of "it rains" is "to rain" and not "it to rain". "Geben" has the sense of "exist" only in the set phrases "es gibt" and "es gab". Hence the phrase "es gibt" is the only proper translation for all present forms of "there be". I’m afraid the dicionaries you mentioned made a mistake, Anatoli. Korn (talk) 16:58, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Danke. Wie betrachtet man den Ausdruck there be? Es gibt there is, there are, so soll es auch eine Infinitivform geben. Ja, es gibt Leute, die there be nicht mögen und streichen wollen. Aber ist seine Verwendung nicht ähnlich zu "es geben". There may be, there ought to be, usw.? Wenn es "there be", "y avoir" gibt, muss es auch "es geben" sein. Ich glaube "es" gehört dazu, ohne "es" "geben" hat ganz andere Bedeutung. Ist vielleicht kein Verb, aber ein Ausdruck. Wenn there be gestrichen ist, werden auch Übersetzungen "y avoir" und "es geben" verschwinden. ( Ich habe achtzehn Jahre kaum Deutsch benutzt, fällt mir jetzt etwas schwer. )--Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:20, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Für achtzehn Jahre ist das Deutsch noch ganz in Ordnung. Aber ich muss den wesentlichen Punkt, den CodeCat nannte noch einmal betonen: y, there und er sind Adverben und erfordern keine Deklination. "Es" hingegen ist ein Pronomen und daher _muss_ das Verb entsprechend dem Pronomen gebeugt werden. "There be" kann existieren, da sich das Verb (be) nicht in Bezug auf das Adverb (there) verändert. Aber Pronomen+Infinitiv (es+geben) ist grammatisch nicht möglich. Und um das Regenbeispiel aufzugreifen: "Es" dient nur dazu, die Unpersönlichkeit des Verbes hervorzurufen und daher hat das Verb auch in dieser speziellen Verbindung (und der dazugehörigen Konjugation) eine andere Bedeutung; ebenso wie in "es regnet", wo "es" kein bestimmtes Objekt bezeichnet, sondern den Zustand des Regens beschreiben soll, wird in "es gibt" der Zustand des Seins beschrieben. "Es" ist nicht teil der Verbes, sondern unpersönliches Pronomen, könnte aber auch ein bestimmtes Pronomen sein. Etwa: "Es (das Wasser) regnet (herab)." Es ist die bestimmte Phrase "es regnet/gibt/ist kalt...", die eine Nebenbedeutung hat, nicht das Wort "es", das eine Nebenbedeutung hat. Daher kann "es geben" nicht existieren, weil es die grammatischen Regeln der Konjugation brechen würde, "there be" kann jedoch existieren, weil ein Verb hinter einem Adverb jede mögliche Form annehmen kann. Ich wünschte, ich könnte mit einem russischen Beispiel aushelfen, aber ich kann auf Russisch gerade einmal etwas zu Essen bestellen.Korn (talk) 00:47, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Na gut. Dann muss man die Übersetzung von "there be" als "es gibt" lassen (mit ), immer besser als überhaupt keine Übersetzung.
 * Re: "da sein", ich würde "der Frühling ist da" als "the spring has arrived", "it's spring", "there's spring" übersetzen, wo "da" hat keine "there" Bedeutung und auch nicht einfach "existieren" bedeutet. Ich habe im Moment keine bessere Beispiele, aber ich bin sicher, dass "da sein" manchmal dem "es gibt" synonym ist oder sehr ähnlich. Ganz interessant sind die Paare: "ich werde für dich da sein" - "I'll be there for you" (nicht physisch "dort", "in jenem Ort", oder?)
 * Russische Beispiele würden in diesem Fall leider nicht helfen, weil im Russischen man in diesem Fall keine Pronomina und "spezielle" Adverbien benutzt, nur Verbe mit oder ohne Substantive. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:46, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

 * "Da sein" hat in den ganannten Fällen tatsächlich örtliche Bedeutung. "Der Frühling ist da" ist mit "spring has arrived" gut übersetzt, und sowohl "arrive" als auch "ist da" beziehen sich in diesem Fall darauf, dass der Frühling sich am Ort des Sprechers befindet. Natürlich ist das ganze etwas abstrakt, weil der Frühling eher ein Zustand als ein kleines Objekt ist. Ebenso muss man sowohl "für jmnd. da sein" als auch "be there for sbd." als örtlich deuten. Der Trost liegt ja gerade nicht darin, dass der andere existiert, sondern in dessen Unterstützung/Nähe; und sei es nur durchs Telephon. Man ist eben nicht "für jemanden da", wenn man am anderen Ende der Welt sitzt und mit dem Betroffenen überhaupt keinen Kontakt hat. "Da sein" hat nie die Bedeutung "existiert" im Deutschen, sondern immer irgendeinen örtlichen Bezug. Korn (talk) 10:20, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

 * ps.: Ich habe "es gibt" wieder als Übersetzung eingefügt, wusste aber leider keinen passenden qualifier. Einerseits könnte man schon betonen, dass es nur in dieser Form "there be/is/are" bedeutet, andererseits ist dies ja durch die Regeln der Grammatik vorgegeben und eine andere Form mit es ist nicht möglich. Korn (talk) 10:26, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Übersetzung von einem Lied

 * Hallo,

 * vielleicht kannst du mir helfen, ich das Lied "Missing" ins Gotische übersetzt, aber ich bin mir nicht ganz sicher ob es richtig ist.

 * Missing:

 * Please, please forgive me,
 * But I won't be home again.
 * Maybe someday you'll look up,
 * And, barely conscious, you'll say to no one:
 * "Isn't something missing?"

 * You won't cry for my absence, I know -
 * You forgot me long ago.
 * Am I that unimportant...?
 * Am I so insignificant...?
 * Isn't something missing?
 * Isn't someone missing me?

 * Chorus:
 * Even though I'm the sacrifice,
 * You won't try for me, not now.
 * Though I'd die to know you love me,
 * I'm all alone.
 * Isn't someone missing me?

 * Please, please forgive me,
 * But I won't be home again.
 * I know what you do to yourself,
 * I breathe deep and cry out:
 * "Isn't something missing?
 * Isn't someone missing me?"

 * Chorus

 * And if I bleed, I'll bleed,
 * Knowing you don't care.
 * And if I sleep just to dream of you
 * And wake without you there,
 * Isn't something missing?
 * Isn't something...

 * Even though I'm the sacrifice,
 * You won't try for me, not now.
 * Though I'd die to know you love me,
 * I'm all alone...
 * Isn't something missing?
 * Isn't someone missing me?...

 * Sundro:

 * Thuk thlaiha, thuk thlaiha, mik fragif
 * Ak ik nih quima at hamai
 * Nihuh unskaus, nih quithis nih ains-hwamma:
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Nih quainis in dailai waninassuis meinis
 * Thu mik ufarmitides faura langana
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Thauh im sauths
 * Thu nih biarbaidjis in meina
 * Thauh dewjau thei witan ei mik frijis
 * Ik im sundro
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Thuk thlaiha, thuk thlaiha, mik fragif
 * Ak ik nih quima at hamai
 * Wait thata thatei latjis thuk silba
 * Ana ufhropjauh:
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Thauh im sauths
 * Thu nih biarbaidjis in meina
 * Thauh dewjau thei witan ei mik frijis
 * Ik im sundro
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Jabai andnemjau runana blothis
 * Thauh thana andnima
 * Jabai slepjau thei thuk saihwan
 * Thauh gawakna inuh thuk
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Thauh im sauths
 * Thu nih biarbaidjis in meina
 * Thauh dewjau thei witan ei mik frijis
 * Ik im sundro
 * Nih hue ist sundro?
 * Nih hun mik gairnjith?

 * Es wäre mir eine große Hilfe wenn du ein Blick reinwerfen könntest und es korrigieren könntest.
 * Ich hab übrigens "Þ" als "Th", "Ƕ" als "Hw" und "Q" als "Qu" geschrieben.

 * Vielen Dank!

 * Greetings HeliosX (talk) 05:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Besser spät als nie: Tut mir leid, mein Gotisch beschränkt sich auf passives Verständnis, ich kann also Texte teilweise verstehen, aber selbst keine bilden.Korn (talk) 22:29, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

recke
Hi. I see in your edit at that Middle Low German  was borrowed from Old High German. Im not disputing; Im just curious where you found this. Leasnam (talk) 15:53, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I have no literature as a reference for this specific case, but the regular outcome of Old Saxon /wr/ is Middle Low German /βr/, in all dialects. There is no record of any tendency to reduce /βr/ to /r/. Since loan words from (High) German, including doublets with native words, were very common, it just seemed much more likely to me that it be a loan, rather than that one word would randomly drop a consonant without retaining it in any dialect whatsoever. I'll fix the order.Korn (talk) 18:04, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Thanks ! Leasnam (talk) 18:18, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Junge
Hi, I've undone your edit to Junge. You had deleted the following sentence: Even with the irregular plurals (Jungs, Jungens), the singular declension is always weak (thus with -n in the oblique cases). You said that Northern Germany uses the S-plural in all cases, which makes no sense because the deleted sentence is about the singular. What it means is that the genitive, dative and accusative singular do get the -n. The declension is: der Junge, dem/den Jungen; pl. die/den Jungs. I suppose you do agree with this and you just misinterpreted the sentence. I added the words "in the singular" to make it clearer for future readers. Best regards :) Kolmiel (talk) 17:54, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I simply misread in a moment of weak attention. My bad. Korn (talk) 20:57, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

moin
Thanks for your work on the etymology of this word. Just two things: 1.) Please don't use { {etyl | nds | de} }. I'm not a huge fan of the term German Low German either, but this is what we use here on wiktionary. The words need to go into the right category and that's { {etyl | nds-de | de} }. When you just type the word you can use [ [Low German] ]. 2.) Could you please give your sources for the notion that "moin" is form Berlin? I'm quite supprised to read that because it had seemed to me like a chiefly coastal term. I don't mean to say you're wrong, just add those to the reference list (or make one). Thanks! And best regards!Kolmiel (talk) 15:36, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * NDS-de was made up on Wikipedia because people couldn't stop bickering about how to spell. I don't think it was ever meant to be used for an actual language. It's more like "American Spelling" and hence I don't consider it fit for etymologies. Also "moi" is so typical for the Dutch-German border, on both sides, that it's basically 50:50 chance that the greeting estimated on either side. It just seemed silly to write "from German Low German or Dutch Low German" when ISO knows neither and only "Low German".
 * The Berlin-etymology was new to me too, it was added on Wikipedia recently. Korn (talk) 10:52, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It may be silly, but it's the system people have adopted here. If you want to get rid of the system I might even be on your side, but ignoring it just creates chaos... All standard German words adopted from modern Low German have "nds-de" as their source. Moin is currently the only exception since you reverted it back to just "nds". I didn't start this system, I just use it. (Btw, my idea would be to simply rename "German Low German" into "Low German"; since the other one is now "Low Saxon" there's no ambiguity to begin with.)
 * But anyway, the fact that a particular word is used on the Dutch side of the border is not of much importance, in my opinion. That will be true of most words. But we always have a right to presume that a Low German word in standard German is from German Low German, not Dutch Low German/Saxon. We will only ever use Dutch Low Saxon as a etymological source if we have founded reasons to believe that these dialects had a particular influence, e.g. because of a given phonetic peculiarity or whatever. (And I don't know of any actual word for which that would be the case.) Kolmiel (talk) 04:23, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Also I only care about this when it has to do with standard German etymologies... You can use your "nds" in all other circumstances, fine by me :) I don't work on Low German (although I did learn quite a bit of Westphalian from my grandmother...) Well, maybe you could consider it.
 * Hah, I was just thinking about the issue this morning. I'll dwell on it. Cheers.Korn (talk) 11:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Phonetic transcriptions
Hi... again. I’ve seen you make some edits in pronunciations. Even though your transcriptions are of course correct, they are very often contrary to our agreements.
 * Particularly, we have an agreement not to use diacritic marks such as [ʰ], [ʷ], [ä], [ ̟ ], etc.
 * In both our phonemic and phonetic transcriptions we employ a user- and editor-friendly system.
 * In phonemic transcriptions, we use /ɐ/ instead of /əʁ/, and /ɐ̯/ instead of /ʁ/ in coda position after long vowels (in spite of this being not really phonemic). We also distinguish /ç/ and /x/ (which in my point of view is phonemic). We put consonants whose phonemic status is doubtful in brackets /kam(p)f/.
 * In our phonetic transcriptions, we distinguish [x] from [χ] (after [a], [aː]), as well as [v] from [ʋ] (in qu-, schw-, zw-). There is, I think, no agreement on the latter, but it seems the general practice.
 * Moreover, we give the most common non-phonemic variants:
 * [ʁ] and [ɐ̯] in coda position after short vowels.
 * [ə] + -n, -l versus syllabic consonants: [-pən], [-pm̩]; [dən], [dn̩], and so on. So far we have not transcibed [kŋ] as [ʔŋ] as you did in, though this might be something we could do.
 * [pf] and [pϕ].
 * I think that’s it, though I might be missing one or two. We have not so far given [r] as an allophone of [ʁ]. We probably should, but not in a sperarate line with the tag dialectal (as you did in ), but as a mere allophone in the standard line. (It is indeed an officially standard variant.)
 * Apart from this, we give common nonstandard pronunciations below the standard ones. But this should be restricted chiefly to cases in which these differences are phonemic. Otherwise we would get a sheer infinity of variants.
 * Again: If you’re not d’accord with these rules, try and convince the community to change them, don’t simply use your own system. This will make cooperation impossible. You certainly do understand that.
 * Another thing of lesser importance: You made an edit stating that and  are not homophones, not even in nonstandard speech. This is wrong. In western and north-western Germany (possibly some other regions also) the standard syllables /aːɐ/, /aʁ/, /a:/  merge  in the syllable coda. For me as a western speakers, the words, ,  all end in [aː] and rhyme perfectly. Pairs like / or / are perfect homophones (and occasionally give me a short second of confusion when spelling them out). Kolmiel (talk) 17:02, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I cannot help but feel that your tone indicates that you are under the impression that I'm aware of everything ever decided on this site and would be eschewing that consciously.Korn (talk) 10:25, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I have taken your advice and made an entry in the beer parlour. I'm sure we can work something out. Korn (talk) 10:43, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * General policy aside, I do not think that [pm] for /pən/ and [kŋ] for /kən/ exist and hence should not be used. I've never heard them anywhere in my entire life, and I distinctly remember a 19th century (!) grammarian, whose name I cannot recall, who explicitly complained that absolutely everyone wrongly wrote pm for [ʔm̩], dn for [n̩] et cetera. It was also noted that these pronunciations actually did exist around Bielefeld at the time, but I do not think they survived, and as said, they were rare even then. Korn (talk) 10:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Since the community showed a resounding lack of interest in the topic and I could not find any votes or discussions on the policy, I would like you to link me to the relevant agreements you mentioned. Otherwise I will reinstall my more detailed pronunciations as I have not been provided any argument for excluding them. Korn (talk) 01:44, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Katze
As said earlier and also said at User talk:Eirikr: The usage note "The term Kätzin is rare and likely to be perceived as jocular or hypercorrect." is not correct. A simple google book seach quite often has "Kätzin" in books like "Verhaltenstherapie der Katze" (behaviour therapy of cats), "Krankheiten der Katze" (illnesses of cats), "Katzen gesund ernähren" (To feed cats healthly). So, Kätzin is obviously rather technical -- to differ between cats (Katze), female cats (Kätzin) and male cats (Kater). Thus it's likely that it is not perceived as jocular or hypercorrect, but as technical, elevated or unambigious. (Of course, though depening on the context, unambiguity often isn't needed and so something like "I own a cat" is often good enough.) -19:10, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Ich hab' einen Beitrag dazu im Tea Room angelegt. Bitte diskutiere dort. Korn (talk) 19:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Singular imperative of ächzen
Hello, I'm on vacation right now, but how should the singular imperative form of ächzen be dealt with when it comes to ? I have this gut feeling that *ächz is incorrect while ächze is correct. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 22:59, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I can only speak for Germany, but short answer: Both are correct. Background: I think originally all verbs whose infinitive stem was followed by another ending than pgm. -(a)nã would have a two syllable imperative. So makonã > mako, ropianã > ropi etc. But at least in German Standard German, that difference has been entirely leveled, partially because most dialects delete all /ə/ anyway and hence people had no way to figure out whether there was one in the first place. Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 13:48, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * ps.: We should add an imperative 1. Person Plural to the verb templates. That's very much a thing in Germany and anything but rare. Korn [kʰʊ̃ːæ̯̃n] (talk) 13:49, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The background, i.e. the etymology, should be irrelevant for the question. IMHO it should rather be a matter of euphony and speakability. Can ächz be spoken and does it sound good, is it understandable? de:ächzen and de:Flexion:ächzen only have ächze and no ächz. I guess, they think it's not speakable or doesn't sound good. canoo.net and duden.de have the form, but that could be computer-generated. J. G. Eichhorn (text from 1819) has "Nun, Menschensohn, ächz' du vor ihren Augen", but that's the only google.books result for "ächz du". So, it could be a matter of attestability (WT:RfV): Can three cites be given to attest the form ächz? Greetings, -Ikiaika (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

(Middle) Low German
Hello, Korn. I've seen some of your nice recent (Middle) Low German additions, and had some questions. (I'm asking as I'd like to try to find more information regarding those dialects. Also, maybe "/mi/" and "/mɪk/" should just be removed, and maybe one could also mention Old-Saxon where mik only was an accusative form, and maybe one could aso mention High German which sometimes influenced Low German and has a clear dative and accusative distinction?) (Based on these sources, I'd guess that there are both forms, ü̂sik and ûsik.) Thanks and greetings, -Ikiaika (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2016 (UTC) Just as two short sides notes: Lasch mentions both forms (p.215, Anm. 7), but that might be an old source or an error. Latin (at least New Latin) uses some diacritica, and I'm not talking about modern editions or grammar books, but normal Latin texts. There is the trema to denote that there are two vowels and not a diphtong, and there sometimes is the circumflex or acute to mark long vowels or to denote different cases. An example with casûs (long vowel and plural, i.e. cases and not case): Institutio Graecae grammaticae compendium. Greetings Ikiaika (talk) 18:43, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * In mi (and similary in di) it now says: "Some modern Low German dialects in Westphalia differentiate between /mi/ (dative) and /mɪk/ (accusative)". Could you give any example of a dialect with that distinction, please? Eastphalian (which isn't part of Westphalian) has mik, mick, mek, meck, but doesn't differ between dative and accusative. South Westphalian (Sauerland) differs between dative and accusative, but has the accusative miëck or miek. Westphalian in Gütersloh, Ravensberg, Lippe differs between dative and accusative, too, but only has one form for dative and accusative of the personal pronoun of the 1st and 2nd person. The Wörterbuch der westfälischen Mundart doesn't have mick, miek, mik, but mentions miək (which should be the same as miek): "miək [...] in Altena vor 1500 die brechungen myeck (mir), yeck (ich), verwielkeden Sara (verwelkten Sara)".
 * Template:gml-perpron mentions "ü̂sik", but links to usik. So, is it üsik or usik? A. Lasch has ûsik, and also om (sg.), om(e), on, öm, örer, in the declension table, but later also mentions ûsik, ü̂sik, unsik, ûsick, unsich, ûsech, ö̂sek. A. Lübben has unsich, usich, usik, unsek, usek, osek, but also has om (pl.), orer without umlauts. Sprachgeschichte has üsek, ösek, but also has öme, ön(e) with umlauts.
 * eigentlich: Doesn't the pronunciation "/ʔaɪ̯ŋklɪç/" miss a ˈ, and shouldn't it rather be "rare", "sometimes" or "dialectal" (Bavaria, Austria?), and maybe also "colloquial", instead of "commonly"?
 * From bottom to top: At least where I live (Berlin area), /aɪnklɪç/ is the only pronunciation in normal speech, so it's certainly not rare. It's also not dialectal at all, it's merely what you end up with when you speak at a normal speed. //aɪgəntlix// = /aɪŋtlɪç/ (careful standard) > /aɪŋklɪç/ with rapid speech assimilation. Colloquial might be fitting, I never actually scanned formal speech for this form.
 * The form is /yːzɪk/, but Middle Low German spelled this ⟨usik⟩. Modern treatments always add two dots to differentiate /u/ from /y/. At least for Latin and Middle Low German, diacritica which were not written by the native writers, but are always applied in modern treatments of the language, are always written in entries (e.g. the macron Latin eō). But the page the entry is made to is the form actually written, so the entry for eō is situated at eo. Lübben wrongly assumed that Middle Low German had no rounded front vowels and has been disproved basically instantly by his colleagues. I have never read anyone actually propose the existence of /ûsik/.
 * According to Wenker, dative/accusative distinction in pronouns (i.e. mi + mik) exists below a line roughly from Breckersfeld to Peckelsheim. Since southern Westphalia is by far the most conservative area, German influence doesn't seem likely to me at all. As a side note: The absolute majority of Low German dialects make a difference between accusative and dative, it's just not visible in writing. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 16:50, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your answers!
 * Not sure whether we consider New Latin to be the same as Latin. The reason I didn't include ⟨ûsik⟩ in the table is that no modern form points to this. All modern forms have umlaut, which is what would be expected. So we won't be having ⟨ûsik⟩ until a proper argument is made for it. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 19:22, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Template:gml-imperpron
Perhaps something like Appendix:Dutch correlatives would be more appropriate? —CodeCat 13:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You got a point. I'll wrap my mind around this. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 13:07, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

gml
Hi ! Just so I understand this correctly, if a vowel in Old Saxon was long, it becomes a circumflexed vowel in gml; and if it was short in osx (in an open syllable), it becomes macroned in gml ? Leasnam (talk) 23:50, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, correct. A circumflex marks Old Saxon long vowels and /ia/, which became long vowels/closing diphthongs in Middle Low German. Macrons are Old Saxon short vowels, which became opening diphthongs in Middle Low German. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 07:34, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Is an exception ? Or is there a similar rule that applies to vowels before r ? Leasnam (talk) 14:57, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Vowels before /r/, /rd/ and /rn/ (and /rs/, /rl/ dialectally) were lengthened in the Old Saxon period already. Thus early Old Saxon /wɔrd/ becomes later Old Saxon /wɔːrd/ and ends up as Middle Low German /wɔːrt/ = ⟨wôrt⟩. There was the same kind of lengthening before /ld/ (/fɛld/ > /fɛːlt/), but there are secondary developments which undo this one in some regions. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 16:06, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Wow, ok. Very similar to Middle English. Ok, thanks ! Leasnam (talk) 16:38, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

owsonot??
+böhmischNOexist(entry
 * https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/b%C3%B6hmische_D%C3%B6rfer81.11.231.188 18:08, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Senkungen im Neuhochdeutschen
Du hattest meine Anmerkung zum Vokalismus von "König" entfernt. Senkungen kommen im Nhd. ganz überwiegend mittel- und niederdeutsch vor, teilweise regelmäßig in bestimmten Silbentypen, besonders aber vor Nasalen (v.a. ostmitteldeutsch, so weit ich sehe). Pfeiffer sagt ausdrücklich: "Mhd. künic, künec, eigentl. obd. Form, bleibt in der Schriftsprache (frühnhd. künig, kunig) bis in die 1. Hälfte des 16. Jhs. üblich, wird dann aber durch die md. Lautung aufweisende Form mit -ö- verdrängt." Im dtv-Atlas gibt es auch eine Karte zu "König". Es ist eindeutig eine nördliche Form. Dasselbe gilt auch für Sohn, Sommer, usw. Kolmiel (talk) 00:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Das Schweizer Idiotikon gibt "Chünig" als Hauptform an (neben seltnerem "Chönig"), bayrisch ist nur "Kini". Kolmiel (talk) 00:36, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * More references:
 * DWB at "Sohn": "das nhd. o dagegen ist zunächst auf nd. und md. gebiete durch den folgenden nasal hervorgerufen."
 * DWB at "Sommer": "die form sommer ist wie im mnd. auch im mfrk. des 15. jahrh. bezeugt. Frommanns zeitschr. 2, 453ᵃ (kölnisch); ebenda begegnet etwa gleichzeitig somer. Dief. 210ᶜ (kölnisch, v. 1507), das auch schon früh auf einem andern md. sprachgebiet vorkommt livld. reimchr."
 * I s'pose that's enough for now. Kolmiel (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe these ones still: DWB at "Sonne": "neben sunne kommt im mitteld. sonne auf: sol hd. nd. sonne, zonne, sunne, hd. sonn. Dief. gl. 540ᵃ; die sonne clâr als ê erschein. erlös. 2991 (auch v. 40). nhd. herrscht sonne von anfang an, besonders auch bei Luther; sunne findet sich nur noch vereinzelt bei oberd. autoren des 16. jahrh."
 * "Wonne": "obd. quellen des 15. u. 16. jh. bevorzugen nach wie vor die alte -u-form als wunne, häufiger wunn, auch in der schreibung wun:" Kolmiel (talk) 01:26, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * [Edit conflict.] Sticking to English here because this concerns Wiktionary entries (although nobody might ever read this): I reverted the entry on König before I saw that I had a note from you, sorry. Please add your sources to the entries in question, but I would leave out the part about Low German if it is not explicitly mentioned. The Low German process is not affected by following consonants and it is unlikely that this is an area where Low German made an impact on the standard. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 00:43, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a policy question. Basically we could derive every word that exists in Low German from MLG, including "Haus" from "hûs". I've seen people do that. I'm not in favour of this approach. But I do think that specifically northern forms that are Low and Central German should be derived from MLG. The main reason is that early modern German was a battleground in which northern and southern forms competed. And Low German did play a roll to strengthen the northern ones, even if I agree that Central German is the more important factor. But where do you draw the line? "Dumm" is commonly derived from Low German (Kluge!). But the situation is the same: the d- is mainly Central German + "Konsonantenschwächung", possibly reinforced by Low German. Kolmiel (talk) 00:58, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I can agree that the fact that the northern forms won is due to the Low German areas (notably Berlin and Magdeburg) taking over the written German of their neighbour Saxony. I can not agree that that has something to do with Low German itself or the etymology of the words however. Two arguments here:
 * 1. Aside from High and Low German exchanging a few words in the middle ages, I do not know of any single example where we have a verified Low German influence on the totality of written High German on a structural level. So when having to choose between 'Cental' and 'Central + Low', unless there is concrete evidence for the latter, Occam's Razor leaves us only with the first.
 * 2. On a Wiktionary level, /zoːn/ is a Central German form exclusively because Low German, just like Dutch, is not part of German as we define it. And we don't include parallel developments in foreign languages in etymology sections unless they are relevant for the development of the form. (As opposed to its spread.)
 * Please add a reference for the lowering being Central German to König and Sohn. You convinced me already, but for tidiness' sake. Also, the Low German vowel is not affected by the consonant at all, DWB is wrong there. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 10:15, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, your latter point is correct. And the DWB writers must have known that. The nasal part should only have referred to Central German. It's ill phrased. But: It doesn't matter why a lect has a particular "lautstand" if it does have it. On your arguments:
 * 1. I think you're right that there are very few structural influences. But this is because there was little direct LG influence before 1500, and the structure of NHG was fixed by then, while the phonetic shapes of words were still very variable. (Influences on individual words during classical MHG and before 1500 were also more than just "a few".)
 * 2. "We don't include parallel developments in foreign languages [...] unless they are relevant for the development of the form. (As opposed to its spread.)" -- If this is the case, I have no case. But who says that? And if it's so, we should definitely change it. Our etymological standard literature doesn't follow this approach either. For example, Kluge says that the form Block (which is perfectly HG) won out against its variant Bloch partly because it was in line with the LG form. This kind of influence is very relevant. And even on wiktionary, I think, we do accept that HG and LG are less foreign languages than German and French, or even German and Dutch. (Not because LG is closer to HG than Dutch, but becaues HG became LG's dachsprache around 1500~1600.) Kolmiel (talk) 12:18, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Point two is somewhat problematic since it risks the inclusion of mere guesswork of the minds of our ancestors, which ties it to point 1. If we see no clear influence of other areas, why assume it here? The modern standard form is alike to one form of Low German - and to one of Dutch, also spoken in Germany. Does that require mentioning? If there is no clear evidence for it, why should we imply as a fact the situation that High German be influenced by the by far most uncommon Low German form (dwarfed by /suene/ and /sâne/) from the area with the least cultural prominence within (post 1300) Low German, which was the first to lose ground to High German both in its official writings and literally, and which borders on a German area which is culturally unimportant as well? And I as a Wiktionary contributor do not agree that Low German (defined as beginning 1600) is less foreign to High German than Dutch, nor is the Dachsprache statement correct, even if we restrict it to the area of modern Germany. Baltic universities still speak and print Low German internally 1650, city schools only switch to High German in the 17th century, less elite schools only in the 19th and 20th century. The educated bourgeoisie only picks up High German in the 18th century. I remember that in the 16th century the High German representative of the Duke of Mecklenburg was tossed out of the Rostock council meeting because he couldn't speak Low German, which is a relevant example because the council offices are the first to switch to High German everywhere. (Data from Gernetz.) Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 12:58, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What are you referring to in the first part above? Alike to one form of Low German, most uncommon Low German form, /suene/, /sâne/, least important area; I don't understand what any of that refers to. — Now, NHG developed as a writing language. It doesn't really matter whether people still spoke Low German. Of course they did, just as much as the Colognian city council spoke Colognian. The relevant thing is that from the 16th century Low German areas used NHG as their written language. That made them part of the NHG language area. That's the difference with Dutch. The Dutch did not participate in the development because they didn't write in NHG. Kolmiel (talk) 14:47, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you mean the very small Low Franconian territory in Germany: Yes, that could also be considered. But you do see the difference between such a tiny territory and a giant territory such as Low German Germany. Kolmiel (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * As to your "guesswork" argument: After 1500, in my interpretation, Low German is one of the lects underlying NHG (in the sense that it's spoken natively by a considerable portion of NHG users, not in the sense that LG is itself a NHG dialect). And hence, when there's a "competition" between a Low+Central German form and an Upper German form in post-1500 NHG, I find it justified to postulate some LG influence by default, i.e. in the absence of contradicting arguments (such as proof that "Low High German" texts indeed predominantly use a southern form, or something like that). Low Germans adopted the more northern (Central German) register of NHG and played a role to strengthen its forms, particularly when LG had the same forms. I don't think this can be qualified as guesswork. Kolmiel (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The burden on proof lies ever on the claimant. This system is explicitly endorsed by Wiki, in the form of citations and references. I don't understand where Low German comes into play for you. The forms did not exist Central Germany's language because they liken to Low German but because of the following nasal. The Central German standard did not spread north because it likens to Low German, but because it is the language of the neighbouring trading partners. If you wish to claim that the Central German (let's face it, Saxonian) chancery standard was in its development notably influenced by Low German, then please provide reliable sources. And again, according to Gernetz, NHG only spreads amongst the those Low Germans who do not need it as a foreign language for professional reasons in the 17th century, and only among the academic elite. When were the forms Sohn/König established in Northern High German? Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 16:22, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Firstly, standardized modern NHG (as of, say, 1750) is not the same as the Sächsische Kanzlei. The whole development went on for ~250 years. It's going back and forth between regional forms, chiefly north vs. south. All but a one-way street. I could give you a lot of examples. Take "glauben" for one. DWB: "Bis um 1800 steht neben der schriftsprachlich sanktionierten form glauben noch die umgelautete gläuben, die im älteren nhd. vor allem bei md. autoren häufig ist; obd. ist die umlautform vereinzelt fränk. bezeugt und erscheint sonst wohl nur unter einflusz der md. buchsprache. [...] Luther schwankt regellos zwischen gleuben (glewben) und etwas unhäufigerem glauben (glawben) und schreibt auch im prät. überwiegend -eu- (-ew-), führt also den rückumlaut nicht mehr durch."
 * Secondly, Low German did have an influence on the Sächsische Kanzlei. Compare e.g. Luther's "beben" from MHG "biben", his "Almosen" from MHG "almuose", both of which are explicitly called "Low German" by both Pfeiffer and Kluge.
 * Thirdly, what I'm doing is simply a conclusion from the understanding of how earlier NHG developed and the role that Low German played after 1500. By 1700, "Low High German" was already considered widely the best High German, particularly concerning pronunciation, but also generally. I could take the time to find relevant citations for this fact, but you probably know that. If there's a northern form in modern NHG for a word that was still "on the move" in 17th century, there's simply no reason not to include Low German as a factor. And no one seems to exclude it. Pfeiffer says "Herde" for expected "Herte" is "unter md.-nd. Einfluss". Same for "Lippe" and many others. Kluge even generally calls such forms "nd." only (which is the other extreme).
 * And would you please explain to me what you meant above? I did ask you. Kolmiel (talk) 17:02, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What I meant is that the Low German word for 'son' is /sʊənə, sœːənə, søːnə, sɔːnə/. The first example is commonly spelled ⟨sune⟩ and the last example is absolutely invariably spelled ⟨sane⟩. So a claim that the O in Sohn is a Low German form needs proper sourcing, because - and feel free to provide the exception - it isn't. (/sœːəne/ is the form used in 80% of dialects.) And the only region where /soːnə/ could occur (I delineated that area earlier so you can look for sources if you like.) in the first place is an area where for one I only find records of "soehne" and which for the other has no record of influencing the Low German language as a whole. Quite the contrary, it hides its local version in order to copy northern language. So if you say "Low German" has influenced High German, it can only be that region, which hasn't even influenced its own language. But I think it's time to take a break and a breath and check: Am I understanding you correctly that you are implying that Low Germans established 'Sohn' over 'Suhn' because they knew it from their language? To my understanding what we are speaking about is a general phonological process. Please also note that the presence of text has to be justified, not the absence. Wikiprojects are based on sourced information, not on claims maintained until disproved. So the reason not to include Low German would be the absence of a solid reason to include it. "Stuff was similar there" does not convince me that Low German is a factor preventing Alpine Bavarian from replacing the forms native to pretty much every other dialect (before optional later raising). Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 20:33, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Pronunciations matter little or nothing. Spellings matter. All dictionaries give me MLG sone (= sōne, sometimes with umlaut söne) as the normalized spelling of the word. I understand you as claiming that the normal spellings were sune and sane. I can't tell without further research because I'm not knowledgeable enough of MLG. But when I google "sin sone" I get numerous MLG hits from different regions. Of course, if "sone" were indeed not a MLG form, we'd have a different situation. (For this particular word.)
 * I say three things: 1.) Low German scribes adopted a northern register of "High German NHG". 2.) Within this register they were particularly likely to choose forms that looked the same or similar to the ones they knew from MLG. 3.) Both of these developments combined reinforced northern forms in NHG vis-à-vis Upper German forms. — It is well known that NHG in Low German areas in the 16th century contained a lot of Low German forms, even ones that were simply taken from MLG and had no basis in East Central German chancellery language. In most cases these latter were gradually abolished, of course.
 * "The presence of text has to be justified." Yes, because it is. I don't derive NHG in from MLG in. I derive a specifically northern form from a specifically northern language. I do what Pfeifer does when he says Herde is due to "md.-nd. Einfluss", or Lippe came "aus dem Nd.-Md. durch Luthers Einfluss in die nhd. Literatursprache". Now, I understand that you don't like it. I don't understand your point, though. Long story short: If you get a verdict against my approach from the bosses, I will abide by it unwillingly. And that sets me apart from yourself who are doing whatever you feel like, ignoring agreements all the time. Kolmiel (talk) 21:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * PS: Just to make very clear that I do not at all intend to derive every form that looks a bit Low German from Low German: My approach is that it's justified to postulate some Low German influence on the standardization process when the following four conditions are met:
 * 1.) There was still after 1500 a pretty much open competition between two or more forms (not just a main form and a rare variant).
 * 2.) The form that has been standardized was originally uncommon in all or most parts of Upper German.
 * 3.) This form is equivalent or virtually so to the common MLG spelling of the respective word.
 * 4.) There is no extra evidence against Low German influence in favour of this form.
 * I know you will not agree with this and that's fine. My conviction is that it's justified and that it's exactly what Kluge and Pfeiffer have done in many cases. Kolmiel (talk) 00:24, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Breaking the 'assume good faith' principle with an unnecessary ad hominem insinuation. This is how I got to know you first, this is how you remain. I am disgusted by being insulted thus by you, so this conversation ends here. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 09:13, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Schild
Hi, are you sure about this edit? There's nothing about this in the German Wiktionary or dwds.de, and i've never noticed this. --Espoo (talk) 17:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Since I am from such a region I didn't even know some people used it as a male term until relatively late in my life, yes, I'm as sure as can be. It's also a staple topic of arguments on the German internet. I'm not even sure if there is anyone who says 'der Schild' natively without having looked it up at some point and trying to be a smartarse since. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 19:19, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Amazing that there's no mention of that in the German Wiktionary or in DWDS and Duden. Could you please add a reliable source to the lemma or a link to a serious forum discussion here or on the lemma's talk page? --Espoo (talk) 23:38, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Created Citations:Schild. ps.: The Duden used to be, and still is, the paragon of a prescriptive work. It now states to have descriptive interests, but it's not shaken off its prescriptive heritage and in turn is crassly unrelated to reality here and there. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 10:34, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Wunderbar, danke! --Espoo (talk) 23:46, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

GML marking long vowels
Hello Korn ! Just a quick question regarding the macron vs. caret/circumflex in Middle Low German: if a word is unattested in Old Saxon, bu the reconstructed term has a long vowel or diphthong, how should this be rendered in GML ? Macron or circumflex ? Leasnam (talk) 20:10, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think the reconstruction is sound and there is no later shortening, just use the circumflex as you would with an existing term. If you're not comfortable, just use no mark; after all, they're just an extra service we offer, not part of the entry. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 21:07, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * copy that ! Leasnam (talk) 22:02, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

det
I was actually just there to fix the formatting, and changed the codes as an aside; when undoing an edit that makes formatting changes, you should generally check to see whether those changes were made for a reason before undoing it wholesale. More importantly, our exceptional codes exist because at some point, there was consensus to have them here. If what you said about nds-de lacking consensus is true, then you, -sche, and anyone else interested need to work this out, probably at WT:RFM. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 18:08, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The problem with working it out is why it's not reverted yet, but that's no reason to make the situation even more difficult to fix later. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 22:31, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Recent reverts at got
Hi! I noticed you reverted my edits to headers at, referencing the GML style guide, but About Middle Low German doesn’t say anything about the headers deviating from the standards at WT:ELE. Perhaps add a note there? I’m also not sure itself is as you intended it to be, since right now the pronunciation headers are at L4 but are not inside any corresponding L3 headers; if etymologies are under pronunciations, then presumably they should be at a lower header level. Just a heads-up. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 05:11, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Jesus. Yeah, I could have sworn there was a page on header order somewhere. Thanks for the info. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 09:22, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

koke
The current state of the entries does not match what it says in About Middle Low German. "Middle Low German entries nest the etymology section within the Pronunciation header" but you've put all the headers at level 3. DTLHS (talk) 22:36, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ach, shite, thank you for the info, I'll update the wording in W:AMLG. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 22:39, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Ostwestfälische humor
My cousin sent me this and I thought you might enjoy it. XD http://www.bento.de/haha/das-kennst-du-nur-wenn-du-ostwestfaelische-wurzeln-hast-344660/ --Victar (talk) 05:42, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm from the other side of the country and have little to no concept of the culture in that area. Eastphalia too is a completely blank spot on my mental map. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 13:27, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's too bad. --Victar (talk) 17:42, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Your rudeness was totally uncalled for! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:02, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * A very Russian thing to say. With some distance, I agree. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 15:38, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * So, you're xenophobic or, if I pay in kind, that is a typical German apology? Thanks for being honest and showing what you are. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 20:37, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Curb your paranoia, really. It's just that all of the five people (six with you) I ever heard voice dislike for swearing, and asking people not to do so, even though these people were not insulting anyone, were Russians, so I figured it was some part of Russian culture. Pardon me for making assumptions based on my repeated experiences. ps.: We currently carry a definition for xenophobic which is 'exhibiting fear or hatred of strangers'. It is beyond me how you can reconcile that with 'Russians don't like swearing'. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 20:42, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You don't have to tell me the story of the evolution of your prejudices. I was offended by the rude remark to my comment, not by your swearing. Your comment "a very Russian thing to say" shows your prejudice, not your swearing. I don't give a fuck about swearing. Here, as an example, I am just swearing, not being rude to you. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:48, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that the term 'prejudice' explicitly excludes impressions based on repeated evidence, and that English uses the term 'experience' instead for those. And I find it a tad silly that my experiences offend you even as you add to them, but have it your way. If you don't mind the swearing, what made you come to my talk page to talk about it? Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 09:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Merger Sparten - Spaten
You classified this as southern German and Austrian, which is wrong. Only few southern speakers have this merger. As you can see on this map, the merger is chiefly western and northern. Now, I know that some of the very norhtern speakers (including yourself) distinguish these as [ɑː] vs. [aː], but this is only true of areas relatively close to the coast. In western Germany and also large parts of Niedersachsen etc., there is only a central [äː] for both sounds. If anything, therefore, the merger could be called "chiefly western Germany", but I think it's gaining ground generally, so there's no need to specify.
 * Such a merger does not exist except perhaps in dialects which I do not know. It is clearly not [ˈʃpaːtən] but [ˈʃpaɐ̯tən]. Or in other words, Spaten and Sparten do not rhyme when speakers vocalize /r/. There are phonetically distinct differences in the realization, a flow from one vowel into the other in . Fay Freak (talk) 20:46, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * As the map makes no statement on what the actual pronunciation is, it's of no informative value on the matter. I have a very hard time believing without properly documented evidence that [aɐ̯] is a common thing, it's certainly not once come across me in the three Bundesländer I spend my life in (MV, BB) nor in any works on dialects I sporadically read. The source for a merger into a backvowel for Austria is Brandstätter et al 'Standard Austrian German', and some other standard work I forgot, maybe Mangold. What I think there is need to specify is that there's [aː] and [ɑː] and that there's a difference between variants which merge into a back vowel ('back' including central) and those for which back A and front A are separate phonemes. I don't care for regional mentions but I'd like to keep them structurally apart in the phonology sections. I also strictly oppose labeling the merger of /ar/ and /ɑː/ as nonstandard. Brandstätter et al. and Mangold consider it standard and I cannot imagine for the life of mine imagine any kind of situation where a speaker would correct the merger to some other variant in natural speech. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 22:49, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * > three Bundesländer I spend my life in (MV, BB)
 * Okay that explains it. I am from . If somebody says something like or  this difference could slip the ears because of fast speech or noisy environment but then a speaker is asked to repeat if it is ”[ʃaːf] oder [ʃaɐ̯f]” – like this, and so is the answer, and apparently then people do know which word it was hence there is a distinction. The vowel in  does not sound long and it is like there is a consonant between /a/ and /f/ (the semivowel; the vowel gets raised here before the /f/ comes). I can’t fail the distinction, I would even see a difference would I make the effort to visualize my pronunciations of such words in Praat.  Perhaps people in regions afar do not hear the difference. (For that matter, open back vowels do not exist here at all for the usual speaker, this is why I found it strange that you pretended it is everywhere found in .)  Fay Freak (talk) 14:35, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Heh, that explains it indeed. There isn't much work done on High German accents in original Low German areas, so Westphalian High German is a blind spot in my knowledge, but I can easily see why speakers of Westphalian Low German would end up with that pronunciation while the northeast ended up with [ɒː] vs. [aː]. Anyway, as for the merger, anecdotical evidence but still, I've done tests with Berlin-Brandenburg friends and if asked to randomly produce either 'Mars' or 'Maß', I'm able to distinguish their intended meaning acoustically pretty consistently (~95%), so the distinction is anything but coastal. So how do you suppose we go about this, I'd still like to have a label explaining that smoothed vocalisation does not automatically mean a merger with /ɑː/. Also, does 'Schaf' really have a true front vowel for you and is that considered standard language? For the sake of simplicity and because it's usually not as clearcut, I strongly prefer to write [äː] as /ɑː/. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 10:51, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No it is always (!) – for me at least – a central vowel, I just followed the IPA recommendation to just use “a” without a centralization sign since they did not devise signs for the open central vowels intentionally (alas), I thought it’s clear that it is not a front vowel. Some speakers speak the /a/ vowel more frontal, but most often it is just always an unrounded central open vowel. That’s of course in the area where one would want to analyze many recordings with exacter instruments, to see where the frontest /a/s are found.
 * I think for the phonematic transcription we should use r everywhere, the sign for the alveolar trill and the basic sign for “a rhotic phoneme”, which is coincidentally also what you always prefer as I know, and put the other pronunciations into square brackets. (Or have I missed your question?) Fay Freak (talk) 22:28, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Korn


text:
tharm

Etymology
From, , from , from , from , from , , from.

Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬,. .

Noun

 * 1)  An intestine; an entrail; gut.

Etymology
From. Also compare 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) yeast, sour dough, yoghurt ferment

Etymology
From.

Cognate to 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬,, , 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, and 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) One of a creature's organs especially when located in the chest.
 * 2)  The guts, entrails, bowels or intestines.
 * 3)  The guts or intestines used as food.
 * 4)  A parasitic worm living in the intestines.
 * 5)  A child; one of one's immediate offspring or descendants.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: tharm


text: tharms

title: tharms


text:
winesop

Etymology
From, ; equivalent to.

Noun

 * 1) A piece of bread soaked in wine; a small cake made with grapes or wine.
 * 2) * circa 1982, John Payne, Decameron (translated from Giovanni Boccaccio's Italian):
 * His wife gave her a winesop to eat and after, undressing her, put her to bed; and they contrived that night to have her and her maid carried to Florence.
 * 1)  A drunkard, a wino.
 * His wife gave her a winesop to eat and after, undressing her, put her to bed; and they contrived that night to have her and her maid carried to Florence.
 * 1)  A drunkard, a wino.
 * 1)  A drunkard, a wino.

Synonyms

 * ,, ; See also Thesaurus:drunkard

title: winesop


text: Category:French terms prefixed with archi-


text:
archicélèbre

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) ultrafamous, superfamous

title: archicélèbre


text:
archiduchesse

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) archduchess

title: archiduchesse


text:
epicurize

Verb

 * 1) To profess or tend towards the doctrines of Epicurus.
 * 2)  To feed or indulge like an epicure.
 * 1)  To feed or indulge like an epicure.

title: epicurize


text: epicurized

title: epicurized


text: epicurizes

title: epicurizes


text: epicurizing

title: epicurizing


text: Category:te:Reptiles

title: Category:te:Reptiles


text:
polyperythrin

Noun

 * 1)  A pigment found in many simple Anthozoa and some hydroids.

title: polyperythrin


text:
archifaux

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1)  dead wrong, extremely wrong, completely untrue

title: archifaux


text:
Talk:debuggable

If I am correct in my assumption, and the masters of the English language agree, the fact that 'debuggable' is now recognized as a proper word probably means that 'debuggability' is soon to be recognized as a proper word as well; and for some reason, I find the pronunciation of that word to be wonderfully amuzing. "Debuggability"... it not only rolls but it flows off the tongue. Saying it brings a smile to my lips. "Debuggability"; may I be the first to welcome you to the English language! S. Rogers
 * What do you mean "soon to be ..."? There are several hundred hits for the word on Google book search. SemperBlotto (talk) 22:26, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well... It never occurred to me to use Google book search to check for acceptable usage of a word in a language. I considered the more base case of the basic Google search instead, and I figured that, since anyone with the ability to post can cause a series of letters to be searchable under the basic engine, I'd go to something like a dictionary, with lexical entries containing -- when possible -- histories, pronounciations, citations, usages, acceptable spellings, etc..., as well as citations.  Perhaps I jumped too far in looking for a reference to use for 'what makes a word a word.'SRogers1971 (talk) 22:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

 * We've got an entry now. The spelling debugability occurs in a lot of books too. Equinox ◑ 22:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:debuggable


text:
imbrutement

Noun

 * 1) The act of imbruting, or the state of being imbruted.

title: imbrutement


text:
archisimple

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Extremely simple or easy

title: archisimple


text:
collapsion

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1)  collapse

title: collapsion


text: collapsions

title: collapsions


text:
yiyiighas

Etymology
.

Verb

 * 1) he/she is scratching him/her/it once, giving him/her/it a scratch

Conjugation
.

title: yiyiighas


text:
archivage

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) filing
 * 2) archiving

title: archivage


text:
cystocarp

Etymology
From, from +.

Noun

 * 1) A minute vesicle in some seaweeds, containing the reproductive spores.

title: cystocarp


text: cystocarps

title: cystocarps


text:
debuggability

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  The quality of being debuggable; capability of being (easily) debugged.
 * 2)  The extent to which something can be debugged.

title: debuggability


text: debugability

title: debugability


text:
e-boutique

Etymology
en

Noun

 * 1) An online boutique.

title: e-boutique


text: e-boutiques

title: e-boutiques


text:
Talk:debuggability

Plural does not appear ever to have been used. Equinox ◑ 22:34, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:debuggability


text: archiduchesses

title: archiduchesses


text: archivages

title: archivages


text:
castaña de cajú

Etymology
lit. 'cashew chestnut'.

Noun

 * 1)  cashew nut

title: castaña de cajú


text: archicélèbres

title: archicélèbres


text: archisimples

title: archisimples


text: castañas de cajú

title: castañas de cajú


text: archibondée

title: archibondée


text: archibondés

title: archibondés


text: archibondées

title: archibondées


text: alfónsigo

title: alfónsigo


text: alfónsigos

title: alfónsigos


text:
Talk:debugability

Looks more like a misspelling. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:55, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:debugability


text:
íleon

Noun

 * 1)  ileum
 * 2)  ilium

title: íleon


text:
yeyuno

Etymology
, . Doublet of the inherited.

Noun

 * 1)  jejunum

Adjective

 * 1) jejune

title: yeyuno


text:
intestino delgado

Noun

 * 1)  small intestine upper part of the intestine

Etymology
lit. 'thin intestine'.

Noun

 * 1) small intestine

title: intestino delgado


text:
intestino ciego

Noun

 * 1) cecum

title: intestino ciego


text:
intestino grueso

Etymology
lit. 'thick intestine'.

Noun

 * 1) large intestine

title: intestino grueso


text:
shorer

Noun

 * 1) Someone or something that shores or props up.

title: shorer


text: shorers

title: shorers


text:
inanitiated

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1) Undergoing inanition; exhausted through lack of nourishment.

title: inanitiated


text:
furtivista

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) poacher

title: furtivista


text: furtivistas

title: furtivistas


text:
furtivismo

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) poaching

title: furtivismo


text:
tonicize

Verb

 * 1)  To make (a tone) temporarily become tonic.
 * 2)  To produce tone or tension in (e.g. a muscle).

title: tonicize


text: tonicizes

title: tonicizes


text: tonicizing

title: tonicizing


text: tonicized

title: tonicized


text:
tonicization

Noun

 * 1)  The temporary change of an originally non-tonic tone to tonic.

title: tonicization


text: tonicizations

title: tonicizations


text:
thawy

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Becoming liquid; thawing; inclined to or tending to thaw.
 * 2) Conducive to thawing.

title: thawy


text: Category:pt:Education

title: Category:pt:Education


text: theedom

title: theedom


text:
tinchel

Etymology
From /.

Noun

 * 1)  A circle of sportsmen, who, by surrounding an extensive space and gradually closing in, bring a number of deer and game within a narrow compass.

title: tinchel


text: tinchels

title: tinchels


text:
mandarining

Noun

 * 1) The use of dilute nitric acid to give an orange colour to goods formed of animal tissue, such as silk or wool.
 * 2) * 1852-1866,, Cyclopaedia of Useful Arts and Manufactures
 * By this method, which is called mandarining, an orange colour is given to silk and wool, not from the solution of a colouring matter, but by producing a certain change in the fibre by the action of dilute nitric acid.

title: mandarining


text:
cephalotribe

Etymology
From +.

Noun

 * 1) A surgical instrument for performing cephalotripsy.

title: cephalotribe


text: cephalotribes

title: cephalotribes


text:
somniatory

Adjective

 * 1)  Pertaining to sleep or dreams; somnial.

title: somniatory


text:
memorist

Noun

 * 1) One who, or that which, causes to be remembered.
 * 2) One who writes or recites a history, biography, memoir, or similar work containing memories.
 * 3) One who is capable of impressive feats of memory.
 * 4) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who writes or recites a history, biography, memoir, or similar work containing memories.
 * 2) One who is capable of impressive feats of memory.
 * 3) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who is capable of impressive feats of memory.
 * 2) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who is capable of impressive feats of memory.
 * 2) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who is capable of impressive feats of memory.
 * 2) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who is capable of impressive feats of memory.
 * 2) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.
 * 1) One who remembers a particular thing or in a particular way.

title: memorist


text: memorists

title: memorists


text:
theftuous

Etymology
From earlier, , from , equivalent to. Compare.

Adjective

 * 1) Of the nature of theft; thievish.

title: theftuous


text:
papyrean

Etymology
From.

title: papyrean


text:
scrimping bar

Noun

 * 1) A device used in connection with a calico printing machine for stretching the fabric breadthwise to make it smooth for printing.

title: scrimping bar


text:
theftuously

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) By theft; thievishly.

title: theftuously


text:
antiatheist

Noun

 * 1) One who opposes atheism.

title: antiatheist


text:
tartralic acid

Etymology
From, the chemical compound.

Noun

 * 1)  An acid obtained as a white amorphous deliquescent substance, C8H10O11, that is a dimeric form of tartaric acid.

title: tartralic acid


text:
preadjustment

Noun

 * 1) previous adjustment

title: preadjustment


text: preadjustments

title: preadjustments


text:
theremid

Etymology
From, , , from ; equivalent to + , from. Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Adverb

 * 1)  With or by means of that; therewith.

title: theremid


text: Superbowl

title: Superbowl


text:
ταὐτός

Adjective

 * 1)  by  with
 * 2) The same, identical

title: ταὐτός


text:
fidejussion

Etymology
From, from , from +. Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1)  The act or state of being bound as surety for another; suretyship.

title: fidejussion


text:
hermeneutician

Noun

 * 1) One who studies hermeneutics.

title: hermeneutician


text: ταὐτό

title: ταὐτό


text: hermeneuticians

title: hermeneuticians


text:
pigeon-breasted

Adjective

 * 1)  Having a breast like a pigeon's, the sternum being so prominent as to constitute a deformity.

title: pigeon-breasted


text:
Pre-Greek

Etymology
..

Proper noun

 * 1) a hypothetical language (or languages) conjectured to have been spoken in prehistoric Greece before the arrival of Proto-Greek speakers, and used to explain the large number of non-Indo-European words found in Ancient Greek.

Adjective

 * 1) Of or relating to such language or its speakers.

Translations

 * German: vorgriechisch
 * Italian: ,

title: Pre-Greek


text:
unactive

Adjective

 * 1) Not active; inactive.

Synonyms

 * ,, ; see also Thesaurus:inactive

title: unactive


text:
ἔμετος

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) vomiting, sickness
 * 2) vomit

Related terms

 * Ancient Greek:

title: ἔμετος


text:
trigenic acid

Etymology
So called because it is supposed to contain the radicals of three molecules of cyanic acid.

Noun

 * 1)  An acid, C4H7N3O2, obtained by the action of cyanic acid vapour on cold aldehyde.

title: trigenic acid


text:
droumy

Etymology
Compare 🇨🇬,, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Adjective

 * 1)  troubled; muddy

title: droumy


text:
myoelectricity

Noun

 * 1) The electrical activity of skeletal muscles

Translations

 * Italian:

title: myoelectricity


text:
electronystagmogram

Etymology
From and.

Noun

 * 1)  A recording of electrical involuntary eye activity known as nystagmus.

title: electronystagmogram


text: electronystagmograms

title: electronystagmograms


text: arcubus

title: arcubus


text: arcubuses

title: arcubuses


text: arcubusses

title: arcubusses


text:
exchangeably

Adverb

 * 1) By way of exchange.

title: exchangeably


text:
ἐναντίος

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) opposite, facing, visible
 * 2)  in the opposite direction
 * 3) in a hostile sense, opposing, facing in a fight
 * 4)  opposing
 * 5)  the opposite, contrary, reverse
 * 6)  contrariety
 * 1)  contrariety

title: ἐναντίος


text:
consecution

Etymology
From, from , from past participle of.

Noun

 * 1)  A following, or sequel; actual or logical dependence.
 * 2)  A succession or series of any kind.
 * 3)  Sequence.
 * 4)  The relation of consequent to antecedent.
 * 5)  A succession of similar intervals in harmony.
 * 1)  The relation of consequent to antecedent.
 * 2)  A succession of similar intervals in harmony.

Usage notes

 * This word is used in logic, linguistics and computing to refer to the relation of a consequent to an antecedent.
 * Its other senses are obsolete. Use of the word today in those senses is generally an error made by non-native speakers: words like "consequence" and "sequence" are more likely to be understood.

Synonyms

 * See Thesaurus:sequence

Translations

 * French:
 * Occitan: consecucion
 * Spanish:

title: consecution


text:
ἑνδεκασύλλαβος

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) with eleven syllables

title: ἑνδεκασύλλαβος


text:
User:Eirikr/usr/ja-suru-etym

Compound of.

Description
Simple template for use in the ===Etymology=== section of the very many [noun] + する compound verbs in Japanese.

Usage
Four parameters:
 * or (required) - The base noun, in kanji if it has them, or in hiragana or katakana otherwise.
 * or (optional) - Hiragana for the base noun.  Do not use for base nouns already written in hiragana.
 * or (required) - Romaji for the base noun.
 * or (required) - The English gloss for the base noun.  Can be straight text, or wikilinked text.
 * (optional) - The sort key for the base noun. If omitted, the entry is sorted according to the  value, or the  value if that is missing too.
 * Similar to in the Japanese part-of-speech templates; only use if the first character in  begins with a  (a two-dot or ten-ten kana) or with a  (a circle or maru kana).  If two-dot, follow the word with one apostrophe ('); if circle, with two ( '' ).  This makes sure that entries are sorted properly in Category:Japanese compound words.
 * If the value does not start with a two-dot or circle kana, then don't use the  parameter.

Examples
Wikitext - Kanji base noun

Output

Compound of (benkyō, "one's study, one's studies") +  (suru, "to do").

Wikitext - Hiragana base noun

Output

Compound of (urouro, "uncertainly; nervously; aimlessly") +  (suru, "to do").

Wikitext - Katakana base noun

Output

Compound of (ribūto, "reboot") +  (suru, "to do").

title: User:Eirikr/usr/ja-suru-etym


text: ἕνδεκα

title: ἕνδεκα


text:
Elite Eight

Proper noun

 * 1)  The eight teams participating in the regional finals of the NCAA Division I tournament, one of whom will become the national champion.
 * 2)  The round of the NCAA Division I basketball tournament where all but 8 teams have been eliminated.
 * 3)  The eight teams that advance to the site of the final rounds of the NCAA Division II tournament, one of whom will become the national champion.
 * 4)  An appearance in the Elite Eight, whether in Division I or II.

title: Elite Eight


text: favorecidos

title: favorecidos


text:
bedaughtered

Adjective

 * 1)  That has or have a  or daughters, especially when unwanted.

title: bedaughtered


text:
sengi

Etymology 1

Borrowed from, probably from another language (compare 🇨🇬). The word was first used in print in English by the British zoologist (born 1935) in The Kingdon Field Guide to African Mammals (1997): see the quotation.

Noun

 * 1) An elephant shrew (family ).

Usage notes
The British zoologist (born 1935) and the American zoologist  (1944–2019) argue that sengi is preferable to  since sengis have a very different evolutionary history from true shrews (order Eulipotyphla), and it is more appropriate for local names to be used for animals endemic to a particular region.

Etymology 2
Borrowed from, , from (in the sense of five sous). .

Noun

 * 1)  A former (1967–1993) monetary unit of Zaire, one hundredth of a likuta, and one ten-thousandth of a zaire; it was issued only in ten sengi coins.

Translations

 * Finnish: sengi
 * Kongo: sengi, senki
 * Macedonian:

Verb

 * 1)  to trample, tread on, stamp down
 * 2)  to push in, insert
 * 1)  to push in, insert

title: sengi


text: sengis

title: sengis


text:
bepilgrimed

Adjective

 * 1)  Overrun with pilgrims.
 * 2) * 1837, Thomas Carlyle, “Lockhart’s Life of Sir Walter Scott” in The Museum of Foreign Literature, Science and Art XXXIII (May–August 1838), page 71
 * Mr. Lockhart thinks there was no literary shrine ever so bepilgrimed, except Ferney in Voltaire’s time, who, however, was not half so accessible.

title: bepilgrimed


text:
wirehouse

Etymology
1904,, from earlier (1894). Originally referred to brokerage companies that owned or leased telegraph lines, so that market information could be transmitted more quickly. Later generalized to “major brokerage”. Wirehouses are now defined by that they have a direct access to "Fed-Fund Wires", which is the system in which all banks and only the big brokerage houses can "wire" money directly from one account to another. Smaller brokerage firms do not have their own wire line, but need to send transactions by transmitting them through a bank's wire system.

Noun

 * 1)  A major brokerage company, generally nationwide, with multiple branches.
 * 2) * 2012, Josh Brown, “Perhaps I’ve Been a Bit Too Harsh…”,  Financial Adviser, January 25, 2012:
 * Ten years ago, the Wall Street wirehouse brokerage firm seemed unassailable – part of the very firmament underpinning the entire investment industry from coast to coast.
 * 1)  A brokerage company with a telegraph line, telephone line, or electronic communication network.
 * 2) * 1904, N.Y. Evening Post 18 June, 1904 (Financial Section) 1/7
 * The so-called ‘wire house’ …is a product of the boom times.

Usage notes
In contemporary use generally used narrowly, referring specifically to the Big 4 retail brokerage firms operating in the US: Wealth Management,, , and  & Co. In looser usage, applied to any large brokerage.

title: wirehouse


text:
private-wire house

Etymology
1894, due to these brokerage companies owning or leasing telegraph lines (which occurred since 1873), so that market information could be transmitted more quickly.

Noun

 * 1)  A brokerage company with a telegraph line, telephone line, or electronic communication network.
 * 2) * 1894, “Chicago Was Afraid of Wall Street”, , February 10, 1894, page 2:
 * All the private-wire houses were active on the selling side, those most talked of in connection with the Wall Street bull interest being the most active.

title: private-wire house


text: private-wire houses

title: private-wire houses


text:
Talk:win-win

Translations of "win-win situation"
Moved from win-win situation... - -sche (discuss) 02:44, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Chinese:
 * Mandarin: 互利雙贏的局面, 互利双赢的局面 (hùlì shuāngyíng de júmiàn)

 * Finnish: win-win-tilanne
 * Greek: κατάσταση αμοιβαίου κέρδους

En-dash versus hyphen
Can someone please set up a redirect for both win-win and lose-lose so they go to win–win and lose–lose, respectively? These terms should technically both have en dashes, not hyphens. Comment added by User:Electricmaster on 08 November 2019

 * I would agree. Not sure about the technicalities of doing that myself, so in the meanwhile I'll add a usage note here.
 * —DIV (1.129.105.237 08:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC))

 * Actually, this might be a widespread problem on Wiktionary. For instance red-green alliance and cost-benefit analysis should be using an en-dash as well.  In fact, from a quick search I can't see any entries on Wiktionary using an en-dash!  —DIV (1.129.105.237 08:57, 22 May 2021 (UTC))

 * And leaving aside the questions of which version should have greater prominence in Wiktionary, and whether a redirect would be appropriate, perhaps worst of all, the versions with en-dashes don't even exist! So searches on these terms simply fail, and they are redlinked: try win–win, red–green alliance and cost–benefit analysis.
 * —DIV (1.129.105.237 09:07, 22 May 2021 (UTC))

 * There is more discussion of this in Wiktionary's Beer Parlour.
 * —DIV (49.179.13.5 12:30, 6 August 2022 (UTC))

Usage notes: Strictly speaking,...
What is the exact reason(s) to use an en-dash instead? --Backinstadiums (talk) 05:36, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * See sense 3 on –#English, or Wikipedia's sense 1 on Dash. Or even Wikipedia's Manual of Style, which provides several examples such as "on–off switch", "analog–digital distinction". Basically, the en dash is being used to separate two parallel entities that are being connected, compared, or contrasted.
 * On the other hand, for hyphens, see sense 1 here, and the MOS, especially item 3. Basically, a hyphen can be used to form a coordinative compound. This can be a (a kind of "adjective" made up of multiple equal words, e.g., yellow-green), or less commonly a noun where each component "word" applies to or modifies the term, e.g., singer-songwriter, nation-state. Hyphens are also used to make subordinative compounds, where the relationship is unequal, like tree-hugging or skin-deep. (It's furthermore found when using a multiword noun attributively like an adjective: "the space age", but "a space-age tale" (the hyphen is not really required here, except for clarity).)
 * To compare them, consider the examples:
 * yellow-green shirt: a shirt whose color is of a shade intermediate between yellow and green. The two colors form a coordinative compound modifier.
 * red–green color blindness: a condition that makes it impossible to distinguish between red and green. The two colors are being connected and contrasted.

 * If you try to analyze win-win as a coordinative compound, it would be a win that is also a win... which is just the same as a win. If you analyze it as subordinative, it would be a win of a win, much as a witch-hunt is a hunt of a witch, which doesn't work either. And an attributive use doesn't fit well either; in the phrase "win-win situation", it's not like there is an object called a "win win" and we are relating the situation to it. (A noun sense of "win-win" does exist as the page says, but that is not how this phrase originated.)
 * By contrast, it fits very neatly as a place to put an en dash. There are two alternatives: win, or win. On–off switch. Win–win situation. Same type of construction.

 * So the fact that the hyphen is commonly used here is worth noting, as it is an exception to a general rule.
 * That said, a lot of native English speakers (writers?) don't consistently distinguish between different types of dashes. It is possible to find any type of dash being used in any conceivable way. I'm usually not too careful, but I might give it more thought in formal writing. 70.172.194.25 03:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

 * Great response! Thanks, "70.172.194.25"  :-)
 * —DIV (1.145.38.111 05:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC))

title: Talk:win-win


text:
Talk:private-wire house

Obsolete
I’ve marked this as “obsolete”, since it gets only a handful of Google hits (one historical, the rest definitions), compared with over 100,000 for wire house: or wirehouse:. Likewise feel Google books hits since 1950.
 * —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 02:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:private-wire house


text: winesops

title: winesops


text:
テイラー

Etymology
From.

Proper noun

 * 1) Taylor given name or surname

title: テイラー


text:
Talk:pull off

To pull off (intran.) means to set a vehicle in motion as in As soon as the traffic light had turned green, he pulled off.

To pull off (tran.) means to stop a vehicle by the side of as in When John felt his eyelids getting heavy, he pulled off the road and had a nap.

 * If you can support your definitions with citations, add them! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never heard 'pull off' used in the anon's first suggestion, but the second is quite common. It's similar in meaning to pull over. Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 05:29, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:pull off


text:
ocote

Etymology 1
Borrowed from a language, from, from.

Noun

 * 1)  any of several aromatic, resinous pine species native to Mexico and Central America, especially the
 * 2) pine torch

Etymology 2
.

Noun

 * 1)  anus

title: ocote


text: ocotes

title: ocotes


text:
Thread:User talk:Internoob/developer program/reply (5)

Hello.

I think you should ask for help at Wikipedia's Help desk. I am only a Wiktionary administrator and all I know is that Wikipedia is a more appropriate place for the stuff you want to do than Wiktionary.

Cheers


text:
ejote

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1)  green bean

title: ejote


text: ejotes

title: ejotes


text: complacencies

title: complacencies


text:
не стоит благодарности

Etymology
lit. 'not worth the gratitude'.

Interjection

 * 1) you're welcome, not at all, don't mention it

title: не стоит благодарности


text: elotes

title: elotes


text:
baduy

Etymology
From. Compare.

Adjective

 * 1)  uncool; lame; unfashionable; in poor taste; out of style
 * 2)  unkempt; with sloppy clothing
 * 1)  unkempt; with sloppy clothing
 * 1)  unkempt; with sloppy clothing

title: baduy


text:
besweeten

Verb

 * 1)  Sublimely.
 * 2) * 1648, Robert Herrick, Hesperides (1969 reprint, Scolar Press facsimiles), “Oberon’s Feast”, lines 15–17 (pages 136–137 )
 * A pure ſeed-Pearle of Infant dew, // Brought and beſweetned in a blew // And pregnant violet; […]

title: besweeten


text:
double bonus

Noun

 * 1)  The award of two free throws on any sort of foul when enough fouls have been accumulated.
 * Colorado was in the double bonus for the last few minutes of the game, but had trouble hitting the free throws.

title: double bonus


text:
bethreatened

Alternative forms

 * bethreaten’d

Adjective

 * 1)  Threatened by.
 * 2) * 1635, Francis Quarles, Emblems, divine and moral (1818 reprint, Chiswick Press), book III, emblem 11, page 178
 * My plummet’s light, it cannot sink nor sound; // Oh, shall my rock-bethreaten’d soul be drown’d?

title: bethreatened


text:
rusak

Etymology
From (Standard 🇨🇬), from,.

Adjective

 * 1) not working properly; out of order; damaged; broken

Alternative forms

 * rosak: nonstandard Indonesian, standard Malay

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  hare with russet fur

title: rusak


text: たいへん

title: たいへん


text:
二日

Etymology 1
→

From. First attested in the  of 720.

Analyzable as a compound of.

Noun

 * 1)  two days, a two-day period
 * 2)  the second day after some set point in time
 * 3)  the second day of the month
 * 4)   during the, the two-day period of the day of  and the preceding day's
 * , moxibustion traditionally performed on the second of February or August in the belief that this conferred year-long good health

Etymology 2
Compound of. Generally only found in instances of counting, as in.

First cited in 1746.

Noun

 * 1)   two days, a two-day period

title: 二日


text:
三日

Etymology
Tensening of earlier ;.

Noun

 * 1) the third day of the month
 * 2) three days

title: 三日


text:
四日

Noun

 * 1) the fourth day of the month
 * 2) four days

title: 四日


text:
六日

Noun

 * 1) six days
 * 2) weekend

Noun

 * 1) the sixth day of the month
 * 2) six days

title: 六日


text:
七日

Etymology
Shift from,   attested in the  of ; ultimately from.

The nanoka reading is first cited to a text from the late.

Noun

 * 1) the seventh day of the month
 * 2) seven days

title: 七日


text:
shamrag

Etymology
From, from. Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) clover

title: shamrag


text:
八日

Noun

 * 1) the eighth day of the month
 * 2) eight days

title: 八日


text:
九日

Noun

 * 1)  nine days; ninth day
 * 2)  nine suns (shot by )

Noun

 * 1) the ninth day of the month
 * 2) nine days

title: 九日


text:
十日

Noun

 * 1) ten days

Noun

 * 1) the tenth day of the month
 * 2) ten days

title: 十日


text:
User talk:YolentaShield

--Lo Ximiendo (talk) 05:22, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

title: User talk:YolentaShield


text:
seamróg

Etymology
From, from +. .

Noun

 * 1) shamrock

title: seamróg


text: デパート

title: デパート


text:
Talk:disproportionableness

Isn't this just a (IMO clumsy) synonym for disproportionality? Martin Kealey (talk) 05:31, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Yep. But it's an existing word. I'll add that as a synonym, and do an entry for the missing disproportionable. Equinox ◑ 13:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:disproportionableness


text:
barántaigh

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1)  warrant

title: barántaigh


text:
bláthshaothrú

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) floriculture

title: bláthshaothrú


text:
leorningcild

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) student, disciple

title: leorningcild


text:
七つ

Noun

 * 1) seven things [small or without a counter category]

title: 七つ


text:
八つ

Noun

 * 1) eight things [small or without a counter category]

title: 八つ


text:
αγωνίζομαι

Etymology
Inherited from.

Verb

 * 1) to fight, contend
 * 2) to struggle
 * 3)  to play, match

title: αγωνίζομαι


text:
confessio amantis

Etymology

 * + (“of loving”, the genitive singular of, “loving”, the present active participle of , “I love”)

Noun

 * 1) A ’s.

Usage notes

 * If “a lover’s confessions” (that is, the multiple confessions of one lover) is the intended sense, use ; if “lovers’ confessions” (the multiple confessions of multiple lovers), use.
 * This phrase occurs overwhelmingly more commonly as the title of John Gower’s Middle English epic poem of the same name.

title: confessio amantis


text: confessiones amantis

title: confessiones amantis


text: confessiones amantium

title: confessiones amantium


text:
九つ

Noun

 * 1) nine things [small or without a counter category]

title: 九つ


text:
αγωνιστής

Noun

 * 1) fighter, contender
 * 2) campaigner
 * 3)  agonist
 * 4)  breadwinner

title: αγωνιστής


text:
αγωνίστρια

Noun

 * 1) fighter, contender
 * 2) campaigner
 * 3)  breadwinner

Related terms

 * see:

title: αγωνίστρια


text:
なぜ

Etymology
→ * → →  →

Derived from Old Japanese 何せむに.

Adverb

 * 1)  why ... ?, how ... ?

Usage notes

 * This word mainly belongs to formal (e.g. academic essays) and written (e.g. song lyrics) language, and might sound appropriately stiff or poetic in spoken language, even 丁寧語 (polite language), if it is in a context where formal style is not normally used. The synonym befitting most contexts is どうして.
 * This word mainly belongs to formal (e.g. academic essays) and written (e.g. song lyrics) language, and might sound appropriately stiff or poetic in spoken language, even 丁寧語 (polite language), if it is in a context where formal style is not normally used. The synonym befitting most contexts is どうして.

title: なぜ


text:
αγωνιώ

Verb

 * 1) to be in agony
 * 2) to be anxious

title: αγωνιώ


text: か月

title: か月


text:
cyma recta

Etymology
+

Noun

 * 1)  A    in its  part, and  in its  part.

title: cyma recta


text:
cyma reversa

Etymology
+

Noun

 * 1)  A    in its  part, and  in its  part.

title: cyma reversa


text:
cyma inversa

Etymology
+

title: cyma inversa


text: いかが

title: いかが


text:
возбранять

Etymology
.

Verb

 * 1)  to prohibit, to forbid

title: возбранять


text: きょねん

title: きょねん


text: enstraighten

title: enstraighten


text:
enweaken

Verb

 * 1)  To.

title: enweaken


text:
εγγλέζικα

Noun

 * 1) English

title: εγγλέζικα


text:
humiliatrix

Etymology
or, compare and.

Noun

 * 1)  A  who specialises in.
 * 2) * 2005 March 27th (4:25am), “ aaadoveliz” (user name), alt.personals.spanking (Usenet newsgroup), “thongs, bikini, panties, panty, bikini, stockings, garterbelt TallCenter harvey glory bubba”, Message ID: <85b18095.0503270425.70a037db@posting.google.com>
 * The high-heeled humiliatrices of Cincinnati.

title: humiliatrix


text:
بيول

Verb
(representative )

 * 1) to take, lead away somebody

title: بيول


text:
χορτοφαγικός

Adjective

 * 1) vegetarian

title: χορτοφαγικός


text:
infixation

Noun

 * 1)  Word- involving an  or infixes; adding an infix to a word.
 * 2)  The  or  of being infixed.

Translations

 * French:
 * German: Infigieren,, Infixation

title: infixation


text: infixations

title: infixations


text: بيايم

title: بيايم


text:
నెల

Etymology
. Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) moon
 * 2) month

Etymology
. Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) month
 * 2)  the Moon
 * 3) A full moon or full moon day.
 * 1) A full moon or full moon day.
 * 1) A full moon or full moon day.

title: నెల


text:
మాసము

Etymology
From, from , from , from. Cognates include 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬, (English, ).

Noun

 * 1) month

title: మాసము


text:
innixion

Etymology
Formed as, the perfect active participial stem of the + the 🇨🇬, forming nouns of action.

Noun

 * 1)  A  or  upon something; an  of a thing being supported by another;.

title: innixion


text:
ويده

Etymology
From <, from an ancestral Middle Iranian form *uβdī́, from , from , from , from.

Adjective

 * 1) asleep

title: ويده


text:
సంవత్సరము

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) year

title: సంవత్సరము


text:
instrengthen

Etymology

 * compare

Verb

 * 1)  Strengthen.

title: instrengthen