text:
Talk:pig iron

Etymology
The current page, as it exists, says the following:

 * In the 1800s, one method of iron-making involved pouring molten iron into molds in sand beds fed from a common channel.

This presents a bit of a problem, as it suggests that the word's etymology is from roughly 200 years after it was first recorded. (Specifically, the OED's quotes suggest the current earliest recorded occurrence is in 1665, while the earlier and now obsolete "sow iron", from which pig iron likely evolved, is known as far back as 1608.) Does anyone have a decent source that attests to the etymology, without suggesting that the word is of 19th century origin, so that the above can be corrected?

G026r (talk) 20:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

 * To me the problem was just in the date. The rest seems plausible enough. Pig iron and Finery forge imply the method existed much earlier, well before 1608. They contain references about iron-making in Britain from 500AD on. DCDuring TALK 00:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:pig iron


text:
Fleddermuus

Etymology
Cognate to 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬

Noun

 * 1)  bat (flying mammal)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Fleddermuus


text:
гъогу

Noun

 * 1) road
 * 2) path

title: гъогу


text: Citations:Oreo

title: Citations:Oreo


text: Fleddermüüs

title: Fleddermüüs


text:
мэшӏоку

Etymology
From ; hence literally “fire wagon”.

Noun

 * 1) train
 * 2)  firewagon

title: мэшӏоку


text: Fladdermuus

title: Fladdermuus


text: Fladdermüüs

title: Fladdermüüs


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/February

"capitalization"?
Just wondering, why do we have "Alternative capitalization of Aboriginal" as Adj sense 2 & Noun sense 1 when "aboriginal" isn't capitalised? --Tyranny Sue 13:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * What do you mean? Did you look at [[Aboriginal]]? —Ruakh TALK 14:57, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes I have. I mean why is an entry which begins with a lower-case letter described twice in its definition as a "capitalization"? Obviously "Aboriginal" is capitalized and "aboriginal" is not capitalized. How can the verb capitalize apply to a non-capitalized word (i.e. "aboriginal")? --Tyranny Sue 03:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't something like "Lower case spelling of Aboriginal" make more sense?--Tyranny Sue 04:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Its capitalization is “uncapitalized”. “Ab-” and “ab-” are the alternative capitalizations. Perhaps some invocation of “case” would be technically better, but how would you state that, simply, in the definition? —Michael Z. 2010-02-25 14:07 z

 * Well, the problem is that the verb 'capitalize' seems to actually indicate the opposite of 'uncapitalization'.
 * My suggested alternative (above) was something along the lines of "Lower case version of Aboriginal" or "Lower case spelling of Aboriginal". At least it makes sense, whereas using "capitalization" to try to indicate to "uncapitalization" is pretty weird, really.--Tyranny Sue 05:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I understand your point, but the wording isn't typed into this entry, it's embedded in the general-purpose template, which is used for terms in lower case, in mixed case, and in all capitals. The status of how a term is capitalized, or not, is known as its “capitalization,” so the wording is not wrong, although I can see how it might confuse a reader. I am open to suggestions for improving the template's wording. —Michael Z. 2010-03-01 17:22 z

 * You might be tempted to split the template into {capitalized version of} and {lowercase version of}. But that would require creating a specific template for each obscure case: {initial-cap version of}, {all-caps version of}, {inner-caps version of}, {title-caps version of}, etc. —Michael Z. 2010-03-02 18:56 z

 * With Hebrew form-of templates we eventually reached the limit of what can reasonably be front-loaded, and started putting information after the lemma-link in some cases. (See e.g. [[לו]], and compare it to the more Wiktionary-style "Third-person-masculine-singular-personal-pronoun-object-including form of ל־ (l'-).") It was very freeing. In the case at hand, we might consider something like:  Alternative spelling of aboriginal, with different capitalization.  O.K., I admit that's pretty awkward, but maybe it's a starting-point for someone to think of a better idea? :-) —Ruakh TALK 19:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

 * How about  Alternative lower-case spelling of aboriginal.  ? --TyrS 00:01, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, firstly, it's the only lower-case spelling of aboriginal, so taken literally, it doesn't make sense to say it's an alternative lower-case spelling of said. And secondly, see Mzajac's last comment above. :-/  —Ruakh TALK 01:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

True. I think I meant to put  Lower-case spelling of Aboriginal.  Sorry about that. Would that also require a lot of stuffing around with templates?

 * “Lower-case” is not a spelling. Aboriginal and aboriginal have the same spelling. Lower-case is a capitalization. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 21:05 z

 * How about "Alternative letter-casing of ____"? —Ruakh TALK 21:35, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I think that has the right meaning, but sounds awkward to me. Perhaps because this casing is a verbal noun, but we don't “case” when we write. We do, however, selectively or variably capitalize.
 * Hmm, maybe our definition of capitalize needs to be expanded or adjusted.--TyrS 02:45, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I can't find this definition of casing in any dictionary but ours (labelled computing). G-Books only finds about 18 instances of letter-casing or letter casing in this sense, 16 of them in computer programming. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 22:23 z

 * Maybe “Alternative letter case of ___” is better. (Note that case standing alone could be confused with grammatical case.)

 * But to me, case an absolute quality of a letter or uniform set of letters: upper or lower only. This comes from the etymology: a type compositor only had two physical cases to pick his types from. Initial caps is not a case, it is an example of mixed-case writing or typesetting, or capitalization. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 22:39 z
 * "Decapitalization of Aboriginal"?--TyrS 03:10, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Not nicely symmetrical (Aboriginal isn't a "decapitalization" of aboriginal). I wouldn't object to "alternative casing", if "casing" is generally accepted to mean the obvious. Perhaps it isn't. Equinox ◑ 03:15, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think "Alternative case" (or "Alternative letter case") sounds better - I've never heard 'casing' used that way. Is it really an English verb with this meaning?--TyrS 03:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Casing is only used as a verb by computer programmers; not by writers, editors, type compositors, or designers. One doesn't case a letter or word, one sets type in uppercase or lowercase. The OED defines case as a physical box for letter types, not as an abstract attribute of written text, and not even as an adjective, much less a verb.

 * Thinking on it more, I think case is just wrong. Individual letter types are stored in upper and lower type case – there are no other cases. Words and phrases do not come from a case but are composed of letters belonging to either or both cases. Words have a pattern of letter-case: all lowercase, all caps, small capitals, or mixed case, including initial caps and inner caps. Computing has come up with the corruptions “title case” and “camel case,” but these are not true to the definition of case. —Michael Z. 2010-03-05 18:05 z

 * The OED may never have heard of computers, or of handwriting, but I have. And everyone else here has. Etymology is not destiny. —Ruakh TALK 18:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what you're saying about the OED, but it sounds like a strawman argument, or just plain wrong. (The OED is updated regularly.)

 * We should use the conventions of quality publishers and dictionaries, not the ad hoc improvisations of a few software manual and handbook writers. —Michael Z. 2010-03-05 19:59 z

 * I don't know if I'm really saying anything about the OED: I haven't looked at the relevant entries yet. But you state, for example, that "[t]he OED defines case as a physical box for letter types, not as an abstract attribute of written text", even though obviously case is an abstract attribute of written text. So either the OED is wrong or out-of-date, or you're misreading it. —Ruakh TALK 22:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Upper-case and lower-case originate as attributive use of the noun case. A is an uppercase letter, but we wouldn't say that A's case is upper, or that it has a case of upper. —Michael Z. 2010-03-05 22:48 z

 * We also wouldn't say "My car was driven by me to work this morning." That doesn't mean the passive-voice "be driven" is non-existent; it means only that that isn't a good example sentence to demonstrate it. But an example like this one is perfectly fine, and obviously terms like did not spring from the void. It's pretty rare that people want to talk about the case of a letter, but when they do, they use a word like "case". —Ruakh TALK 23:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * BTW, is not used only on verbs; I'm not sure where y'all got that idea. —Ruakh TALK 22:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, if casing is not a verb, then it's a verbal noun, no? Certainly the meaning of a protective covering or shell is separate from either a type compositor's case or abstracted letter case. —Michael Z. 2010-03-05 22:48 z

 * No. At least, not necessarily. —Ruakh TALK 23:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Sounds to me like "Alternative letter case of aboriginal" (& its equivalent, "Alternative letter case of Aboriginal) might be the way to go. (I just noticed that the Pedia entry on capitalization also makes our current template's wording look a bit odd.)--TyrS 01:09, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

 * But Aboriginal is not “a letter case”, or “in a letter case”. It is printed with letters of both cases. Ipod and iPod do not differ in the set of letter cases used to print them (that is, they are in mixed case); they differ in the pattern of capitalization.

 * The case is what an individual letter of type belongs to. Case is not an attribute of a word or phrase, and it is technically normally applied to typeset or printed material, not to writing in general (in handwriting, for example, it is better to use the more general terminology of capital and small letters). —Michael Z. 2010-03-08 01:36 z

 * Sorry, but I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. "Case" is not appropriate because it applies only to typeset letters? Fine. Then "capitalization" is not appropriate because, according to the OED, its only relevant sense is "The action of printing in capitals." The fact is, both terms have evolved, and broadened, and both are used to fill what would otherwise be a gap in the language: the lack of a way to refer to the pattern of capital and small letters in text. —Ruakh TALK 14:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Maybe the OED's editors were giving the reader the benefit of having some judgment. Their quotations make it clear that that sense is intended, referring to the modern capitalization of an old text. If old an new capitalization differ, then clearly the text's “capitalization” doesn't refer only to a text that is in all caps. It means the pattern of capitalization, whether it be all caps, some caps, or no caps. —Michael Z. 2010-04-13 16:21 z

 * OED's earliest usage citation is of notes about an 1843 edition of a 1500s play (there's also an 1864 reference to Webster's dictionary):

 * 1906 R. L. RAMSAY in Skelton's Magnyf. p. xx, The orthography is that of the original; punctuation and capitalization are modern.

 * Obviously, the edition's “capitalization” doesn't mean that it is printed only in caps. We can infer that the “action of printing in capitals” has degrees and details (as indicated by the 3rd quotation: “details of [...] capitalization”).

 * (And my objection to “alternative case” is not that case is used chiefly with type. But that letter case is a binary attribute of individual letters. A word set in upper and lowercase, i.e. in mixed-case type, is set with letters of both cases; it can't be said to be “in an alternative case”.) —Michael Z. 2010-04-19 04:51 z

Cameroon
Can someone please please add the etymology for this word? It's important. Thanks heaps. Tooironic 10:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

aaah!
wife beater, etymology: wife + beater... beater, etymology 2: By shortening from wife beater! Tooironic 21:53, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Makes sense to me. —Michael Z. 2010-03-01 16:19 z

 * But a wife beater top isn't something which beats a wife as this circular definition would suggest. ---> Tooironic 11:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

 * This is no definition at all but an etymology which refers to two definitions. Beater (2), meaning a shirt, is short for wife beater, which comes from wife and beater (1), meaning one who beats. There's no problem. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 20:59 z

 * But aren't we assuming quite a lot? Anyway, beater has five senses, how is a non-native speaker supposed to know which one it refers to? The idea of a singlet-wearing redneck as an abusive husband is not shared in all cultures. ---> Tooironic 22:10, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 * The etymology is not incorrect, although it could certainly be improved. I think the inadequacy you point out equally affects native speakers. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 23:28 z

By the way, we should keep the etymology at the main entry wifebeater. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 23:33 z


text: Fliddermuus

title: Fliddermuus


text: Fliddermüüs

title: Fliddermüüs


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/March

aaah!
wife beater, etymology: wife + beater... beater, etymology 2: By shortening from wife beater! Tooironic 21:53, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Makes sense to me. —Michael Z. 2010-03-01 16:19 z

 * But a wife beater top isn't something which beats a wife as this circular definition would suggest. ---> Tooironic 11:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

 * This is no definition at all but an etymology which refers to two definitions. Beater (2), meaning a shirt, is short for wife beater, which comes from wife and beater (1), meaning one who beats. There's no problem. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 20:59 z

 * But aren't we assuming quite a lot? Anyway, beater has five senses, how is a non-native speaker supposed to know which one it refers to? The idea of a singlet-wearing redneck as an abusive husband is not shared in all cultures. ---> Tooironic 22:10, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 * The etymology is not incorrect, although it could certainly be improved. I think the inadequacy you point out equally affects native speakers. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 23:28 z

By the way, we should keep the etymology at the main entry wifebeater. —Michael Z. 2010-03-04 23:33 z

caballing
Or it could also be cabbaling or cabbeling. It might well have the same root at cabal. It would be nice to find out, so we could decide which of these forms is the main spelling and which the alternative spellings. -- A LGRIF  talk 16:55, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

wæter
This is a mess. It contains lots of useless information, and lots of information of general nature which should not appear on this page. -- Prince Kassad 13:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Useless to you, maybe. The information there is a perfectly valid and full treatment of etymology and belongs in Wiktionary. --Vahagn Petrosyan 06:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

 * What exactly do you find useless, and of general nature, in there? --Ivan Štambuk 06:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

 * First of all, I think the etymology lists too many cognates. They should be on a PIE page, along with that last note listing other PIE words for water, but certainly not cramped in this etymology section. I also think that the last part is too much Indo-Uralic hypothesis, which we probably don't want to support. -- Prince Kassad 10:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * The last two sentences should be relocated to the respective PIE page but otherwise the entry is exemplary. Indo-Uralic theory is not as fringy as you think, and many evidence arose in the last few decades supportive of it. But it should probably be mentioned only in the appendix namespace. Let it be until somebody creates an appendix on the PIE word for "water". --Ivan Štambuk 13:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I noticed someone added Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/wódr̥ only recently. -- Prince Kassad 20:38, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


text:
desraisonnable

Adjective

 * 1) unreasonable

title: desraisonnable


text:
palolaitos

Noun

 * 1) fire department

title: palolaitos


text: Mullworpen

title: Mullworpen


text:
deplaisant

Adjective

 * 1) unpleasant

title: deplaisant


text:
jalkapalloliiga

Noun

 * 1) football league, soccer league

title: jalkapalloliiga


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/April

born-again
Can someone check the etymology I added? Not sure if the formatting's right. Feel free to comment on the example sentences I added too (and extra noun sense). Tooironic 12:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Necromancing, but you should add the version of the bible you quoted from, IMO 218.186.8.242 02:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

April 2010
What's with the template inserted below? There isn't even a Template:, so what is going on? If a wiki user can't just click “edit” on this talk page and know where she's at, then things are broken. I've been here for years and I have no idea what is going on here. Either move the talk here, or link to there, but please let's not start inserting completely opaque code on busy public talk pages. —Michael Z. 2010-04-16 15:05 z


text:
embausmer

Verb

 * 1) to embalm

title: embausmer


text:
Template:lv-decl-card-num

declension of

title: Template:lv-decl-card-num


text: Steins

title: Steins


text: Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/May


text:
aluesairaala

Noun

 * 1) regional hospital in Finnish healthcare system, a hospital serving a region of typically about 100,000 people. For most demanding care, they rely on the better equipped central hospitals, or keskussairaala

title: aluesairaala


text: Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/June


text:
жъапхъэ

Noun

 * 1) pan

title: жъапхъэ


text:
тэпсэ

Noun

 * 1) tray

title: тэпсэ


text: deniggerizes

title: deniggerizes


text:
somptuaire

Adjective

 * 1) sumptuary
 * 2) extravagant

title: somptuaire


text:
somptuosité

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) sumptuousness, magnificence
 * 2) lavishness

title: somptuosité


text: tamponnée

title: tamponnée


text: tamponnés

title: tamponnés


text: tamponnées

title: tamponnées


text: elephants in the room

title: elephants in the room


text:
devaluator

Noun

 * 1) One who or that which devaluates.

title: devaluator


text: devaluators

title: devaluators


text: disbenefits

title: disbenefits


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/August

Is it all guesswork?
Following a (one-sided) discussion at innit, I was wondering how we arrive at our etymology sections. What evidence do we use? Can we just make it up if, for example, a Greek or Latin word looks suspiciously like the word in question? Is it all guesswork? SemperBlotto 15:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

 * No. It is one of the sections where disagreements have to be settled by appeal to authority (ie, a good, modern etymological dictionary). < class="latinx" >Ƿidsiþ 14:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

etymology of beguine
I imagine it derives from French, is that right? ---> Tooironic 00:51, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It does, although it seems to be from the French spoken in the Southern US. < class="latinx" >Ƿidsiþ 09:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


text: Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/September


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/October

lithium
Is it not from AGr. ? -- Prince Kassad 08:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
 * OED says it's from Modern Latin for whose etymology it gives - mod.L., as if Gr., neut. of  adj., stony, f.  stone; the name was proposed in 1818 by Berzelius for the fixed alkali discovered by Arfwedsson in 1817, to designate its mineral origin, the two previously known being of vegetable origin. (sorry, the Greek letters don't copy/paste) SemperBlotto 08:50, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

 * “mod.L., as if Gr., neut. of adj., stony, f.  stone” —Ruakh TALK 15:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/November

vomica as in nux vomica
It looks like there ought to be a Latin adjective from which nux vomica: is derived. But I can only find an unrelated Latin noun. Any ideas? SemperBlotto 08:20, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Adjective is vomic -us(male) -a(female) -um(neuter) nux is a nominative female name so :" nux vomica "
 * Thanks. vomicus: added. SemperBlotto 09:03, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

mind, comment, mentor, remark, memory, commerce, Mercury
This words seem is cognates, but wrote that have different ethymology. Please, explain ethymology this words. Incognitos 19:54, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * mind from Appendix:Proto-Indo-European *men-
 * mental From Middle French mental < Late Latin mentalis (“of the mind, mental”) < Latin mens (“the mind”).
 * memory from latin memor "mindful, remembering"
 * mentor ethymology from greek epic hero.
 * comment from latin word, on noun wrote "spoken remark", remark wrote noun from mark (boundary).
 * commerce, merchant from latin merx (goods, trade)
 * But more is latin god Mercury, which patron for merchants and commercy, counting, writing and commentaries, mentor and speaker.

subpoena
According to Wikipedia its etymology is: "The term is from the Middle English suppena and the Latin phrase sub poena meaning "under penalty"." Can someone add this to the Wiktionary entry? I would do it myself but I'm not sure about the formatting. Thanks. ---> Tooironic 02:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I've added an etymology, but omitted the separate spelling suppena since Wiktionary might regard this as an obsolete separate word used in 1517. The current spelling dates from 1623.  The earliest form is sub pena from the mid-1400s.  Please adjust the entry as you think appropriate.    D b f  i  r  s   19:46, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

no rest for the wicked
Have I properly formatted the Etymology here? ---> Tooironic 22:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2010/December

tritium
The etymology says "see protium" but protium does not even have an etymology section. Am I supposed to guess the etymology by myself? -- Prince Kassad 03:11, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

 * The error and the omission have now been corrected.   D b f  i  r  s   18:53, 5 January 2011 (UTC)


text:
thereness

Noun

 * 1)  The quality of being there, or in some place; presence; existence.

title: thereness


text: therenesses

title: therenesses


text: Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2009/August


text:
marcher sur des œufs

Verb

 * 1)  to walk on eggshells

Conjugation

 * See

title: marcher sur des œufs


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/January

= January 2011 =

Frack / frac
Does anyone know the origin of the German word Frack: and Italian word frac:? SemperBlotto 20:54, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The Kluge Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Deutschen says that Frack derives from English < Old French . Longtrend 00:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


text:
emergency light

Etymology
From +.

Noun

 * 1) An electric light that turns on to give light during a power outage.

Translations

 * German:
 * Swedish: nödbelysning

title: emergency light


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/March

What language is 'smithii'?
smithii is a word. It's the Latinized English surname Smith. Google finds 448,000 occurrences of this word on the web. It's used in the names of at least 20 species' binominal names. So what language is smithii? I feel like the only reason smithii has no entry on Wiktionary currently is because no one knows what language heading to use. Of course there are many other such epithets found in binominal names, and I feel they should be included on Wiktionary. Thoughts? Sorry if this is the wrong page for this. Pengo 00:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Good question. Either New Latin (so Latin as a language header) or translingual, or no language at all as it only appears as part of compounds. Darwinii has caused similar issues; since I don't think that smithii or darwinii are used in Latin texts, it's hard to classify them as Latin. Mglovesfun (talk) 00:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * As I recollect, EP thought that the component words of two-part species names were Latin. He held that only the taxonomic names of genus and higher should be in Translingual. He did not favor including two-part species names, which are better covered at Wikispecies, especially the hierarchy structure, which changes from time to time. His position made sense to me. He hasn't been around lately and I'm not sure that everyone agrees with his conclusions. DCDuring TALK 02:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Fwiw, I think his that view sensible. —msh210℠ (talk) 15:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC) 15:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Surely that wasn't what he thought when he nominated the Latin entry darwinii for deletion, was it? Can smithii and darwinii be attested in Latin? I don't see how we can include any entry in a language if it's not attested. My instinct would be to exclude smithii and darwinii as not part of any language. If anything, perhaps Category:Translingual particles. That is, they have no meaning on their own, a bit like parce which is only used in parce que. It doesn't mean anything.

 * In my Scrabble playing days, there was a somewhat similar argument over folic, which the dictionary didn't allow as valid as it said only used in folic acid. Not sure if it's now valid, the dictionary has since changed from Chambers to Collins. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Restored and moved to User:Mglovesfun/darwinii for discussion purposes. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

 * I tried to find darwinii: in a Latin text and failed. I am going to add these as translingual adjectives (when I have time). EP is no longer with us, so they probably won't get deleted this time (the original entry of mine was definitely wrong). SemperBlotto 15:33, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Historically, the species binomial names were used in an obligatory Latin description of the species. This would be running Latin text. I think that some of the academic communities now allow other languages to be used. I inferred, possibly erroneously, that EP was trying to exclude New Latin of all stripes from Latin because it introduced too much heterogeneity into the section: perhaps the use of "j" is an example. "Smithii" and "Darwinii" are used at the very least in numerous two-part species names, conforming to true Latin grammar of some vintage for the most part. That only two-part taxonomic names are supposed to appear in italics conforms to the typographic convention for noting that they are different from the language of the running text in which they appear. In this view, each quotation containing a two-part name in italics would count as a Latin usage. DCDuring TALK 16:41, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Potentially some good news; while at Bristol Cathedral last year some of the Latin inscriptions used Latinized surnames. They would count as durably archived, unless the Cathedral gets bombed I suppose. But I dispute that any time rattus rattus is used in a non-Latin context it's nevertheless a use in Latin; this is why we have translingual, isn't it? Mglovesfun (talk) 17:35, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

 * I don't have an answer, but to give some more food for thought, another red-link example is longirostris (longi + rostris, long-nosed), which is used in at least 30 unrelated species binomial names. I assume longirostris isn't a compound found in traditional Latin, but it seems odd that it shouldn't be considered a word by wiktionary when it has a clear meaning and is used commonly, even if only in binomial names or by taxonomists proposing new species names. (Over 1M hits on google, 88,900 results on Google Boks).

 * And one more example is jamaicensis (meaning: relating to Jamaica). Pengo 03:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Not to put too fine a point on it, it seems completely untenable to include the contents of Category:Klingon language and exclude New Latin terms because they strain the conventions of the classical Latin language. Many of the ones now considered problematic are derived from proper names. Some may seem like barbarous formations to classicists. But nonetheless they seem like words, specifically Latin ones. AFAICT, the reason some of these may have been deleted was general unwilling to gainsay EP's preferences. I, for one, had trouble understanding the logic of some of his arguments and agreeing with their conclusions, and not just in this specific area.
 * As to whether two-part species name use embedded in other-language running text constitutes use in Latin of the component words: Normally all species epithets clearly follow a limited set of Latin grammatical rules, ie, inflection and agreement, and not the rules of the language in which the species binomial name may appear. DCDuring TALK 11:09, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, this seems like a WT:BP matter. The discussion will need to be completed there. DCDuring TALK 11:15, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Finally, I took a run at a Latin entry for darwinii in principal namespace. Key features: Category:Latin adjective forms, Etymology: from unattested lemma, adj form definition, non-gloss definition, wikispecies links. DCDuring TALK 11:46, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a very good description. Such words are supposed to be Latin (modern Latin in this case). They are used in species names, which are supposed to be Latin too, which means that they are attested in Latin phrases. Latin is the only possible language: translingual is not possible, because they don't exist alone in international conventions. But Translingual is appropriate for full binomial names, capitalized genus names, etc., in addition to (possibly) other language headers (may be needed to show how the translingual name is used in each language: they follow some of the rules of the language: e.g. in French, they may be used either as masculine or feminine nouns, in German, an additional gender is available). Lmaltier 14:02, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I can happily live with this as a model for others. There are a few, named after female botanists, that have an -ae ending instead of -ii (e.g. brittonae: - see Elizabeth Gertrude Britton). For this we just need to change |m| to |f|. SemperBlotto 14:12, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there currently any kind of rule to mark words that were not used in classical Latin? A context tag would be a good idea maybe. That way we can easily see which words were used in which time periods. —CodeCat 14:15, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I can think of some approaches:
 * (No documentation, but see bean);
 * A custom tag using Neo-Latin, which SB has used on some occasions, which label is not to my taste but is distinct from New Latin, which probably has too much baggage.
 * Using New Latin in the context tag because that is the closest vintage and is parallel to tags like ecclesiastical and medieval.
 * Inventing or borrowing a name new (at least to us), like ISV (International Scientific Vocabulary), which MW has used.
 * Are there more? Any preferences? DCDuring TALK 17:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

 * In passing, this is from Binomial nomenclature ...
 * "The two-part name of a species is commonly known as its Latin name. However, biologists and philologists prefer to use the term scientific name rather than "Latin name", because the words used to create these names are not always from the Latin language, even though words from other languages have usually been Latinized in order to make them suitable for this purpose. Species names are often derived from Ancient Greek words, or words from numerous other languages. Frequently species names are based on the surname of a person, such as a well-regarded scientist, or are a Latinized version of a relevant place name."
 * SemperBlotto 18:09, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

 * I think specific epithets such as smithii are translingual. I understand the argument that they're Latin — morphologically they pose as New Latin, and syntactically they partly pose as New Latin (they're usually constructed as adjectives or genitive nouns modifying the generic epithets, and are placed accordingly) — but in actual usage, the're frequently separated from their generic epithets. "Homo erectus and sapiens", for example, is quite a normal construction, whereas *"pie à la mode and carte" is not. I think this is because sapiens, like Homo sapiens, is English (and translingual), whereas carte, unlike à la carte, is only French. —Ruakh TALK 19:03, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't the usage you cite (almost) always a work-specific shortening of the full binomial name or at least H. sapiens or H. erectus? I don't see why work-specific abbreviations are any more includable than work-specific definitions. DCDuring TALK 21:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think so: an occurrence of "Homo erectus and sapiens" is not "shortening" Homo sapiens, any more than "apple and peach pies" is "shortening" apple pies. And there's nothing work-specific about it: AFAIK it's just normal usage. I don't understand your point with H. sapiens; to me H. sapiens seems like just an abbreviation of Homo sapiens, and does not say anything relevant about sapiens. —Ruakh TALK 23:52, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see how you can put so much reliance on what is amenable to multiple plausible interpretations. H. sapiens and erectus are both abbreviated forms respectively of Homo sapiens and Homo erectus. "H. sapiens and erectus" seems interpretable without strain as a coordination of two abbreviations rather than a coordination of the species epithets.
 * OTOH, why not just reduce our workload by simply taking these as Translingual and accept prescriptive authority as to the meaning? DCDuring TALK 01:04, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, firstly, that explanation doesn't really account for why "H. sapiens and erectus" is normal whereas "erectus and H. sapiens" is aberrant; if the two coordinands were just separate, non-parallel abbreviations, then we would expect both orders to be used. (In fact, we might even expect the "heavier" abbreviation to tend to come second.) And secondly — it's true that "erectus" on its own is used in reference to Homo erectus. What of it? I should think that that was an even stronger reason to treat "erectus" as English/Translingual. You seem to get around that by considering such usage to be "work-specific", but I don't understand your basis for considering it so. —Ruakh TALK 01:15, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * As to the second point, it seems to be an anaphora, context-dependent, specifically dependent on a previous use of the unabbreviated term in the same work. The use of an unabbreviated form provides more immediate context.
 * As to your earlier point about "apple and peach pies" and your first point, I think that this is more like a two-part proper name but one in which the postpositive position of the species epithet in Latin (or English) changes what might be the expected order of heavy and light otherwise.
 * As to your question about context, I am quite accustomed to work-specific definitions and abbreviations in almost any edited work. I cannot imagine a textbook or a scholarly article that uses the full species name before using an abbreviation, at the very least one full spelling of Homo before H. is used or at least one H. erectus before erectus is used. I would expect that one could get away with using "erectus" in conversation only among a small number of technical communities, specialized in Homo. Outside of such a community, erectus might bring to mind another genus. DCDuring TALK 03:16, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for your input so far. I think the consensus view is probably that "translingual" is the more accurate choice (over "Latin"). However, "translingual" is a very broad heading, especially considering the specialized language usage of specific epithets and such nomenclature. So can I suggest we create a scientific translingual grouping, similar to MW's "International Scientific Vocabulary". For example, I imagine when viewing an entry's TOC, it would be much clearer for someone to see "scientific translingual" listed rather than a plain "translingual" heading. So how do people feel about a "scientific translingual" heading? Could it be more precise and helpful, or is it splitting hairs? Pengo 10:51, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like this to be under a translingual header. I was considered it attest usage in Latin texts, but rfv is so full at the moment it might be better to let an invalid entry slip under the radar. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:52, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Something such as International conventions instead of Translingual would be an improvement. Lmaltier 19:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

 * If the only options are ==Latin== and ==Translingual==, then I prefer ==Translingual==, for the reason I gave above; but if there's a third option, which is to list this as ==English== and possibly under other language headers as well (depending on how it's used in different languages), per your comments here and elsewhere, then I'd be O.K. with that — assuming you're correct that international conventions really don't govern the use of specific epithets except in binomial names. —Ruakh TALK 00:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Okay, so I think we can consider participants in this discussion to favor "Translingual" as a header for these. (And that's fine by me, too.) But this discussion is tucked away here at ES. Perhaps the a BP section should at least point to it before we consider it authoritative. —msh210℠ (talk) 18:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/April

cranky
I'd love to know the etymology of this common word. ---> Tooironic 23:29, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

 * It depends which type of crank you have in mind. The adjective cranky has a wide range of meanings here in the UK.  The OED entry for the oldest root of "crank" says: Etymology:  Old English cranc in cranc-stæf, Middle English crank(e, a word rarely exemplified before the 17th cent. Apparently an ablaut-derivative of the vb. crinc-an, cranc, crunc-en, found (but very rare) in Old English as a by-form of cring-an, crang, crung-en to fall in battle, of which the primitive meaning appears to have been ‘to draw oneself together in a bent form, to contract oneself stiffly, curl up’. These verbs are not known elsewhere in Germanic; but numerous derivatives occur in the other languages, connected with the two notions of ‘to bend together, crook, curl up’, and ‘to shrink, give way, become weak or ill’. English crank belongs to the literal sense-group, with the primary notion of something bent together or crooked; German and Dutch krank adj. ‘sick’, formerly ‘weak, slight, small,’ shows the figurative development.  There is also the onomatopoeic verb to crank.    D b f  i  r  s   16:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/May

etymology of soin
I added yesterday on the French Wiktionary the etymology of, quoting our most reliable source, TLFi, which I find mistaken.

TLFi rejects the Germanic sunni and links it with latin, French 'dream, think',  'dream' only > soin taking care of the second meaning of ''songer. Essentially because of a semantic gap between 'care' and (closest relative) English.

I'd like to 'restaure' the semantic link to sin, but I need Germanic philology help.

My theory is based on knowledge of slavic etymology work and Pokorny linking sunni, sin to 'be',.

In Czech, you have a 'regular' derivation from 'to wake up'  to take care'  be aware, take care) of soin. And what is the semantic link between to be, I am, sein, Ich bin to sin and Sunde?

Thank you.

--Diligent 04:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Max Vasmer does not mention any connection between будить/бдеть and быть, nor does Machek (concerning bdíti and býti). These are the sources which I usually consult for such quæstions. My French dictionary (Le Robert pour tous) indicates a Frankish, i. e. Germanic origin. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 09:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

 * The explanation which I am most familiar with regarding derivation of English sin from to be goes as follows: to be, be true > to be the one > to be the one (who is guilty) > guilt. According to many sources, the link between to be and sin lies at the PIE level, so it is there, but distant. Leasnam 02:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The Larousse Dictionnaire étymologique also derives soin and soigner from Frankish *sunnjôn ("s'occuper de") but does not venture an etymology of the Frankish word. —Angr 08:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/June

etymology of стакан / استكانة
Hi everyone, I know that the word استكانة is used in the Arabic dialects of the gulf (and as far as I know, not in other dialects), and recently I found out that it's used also in Russian. That made me think what the origin of the word might be. an amusing yet unreliable explanation is that the word originated from the English phrase "east tea can". The word doesn't sound "Arabic" to me (no root etc.), and I think it's not Russian too, so that leaves us with Persian or some Turkic language (the languages that inhabit the area between Russia and the Arab speakers of the gulf).

So, does Anyone knows where this word came from?

 * See for etymology. Don't know about the Arabic word, though. --Vahag 18:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Guess it must have arrived to Arabic through Persian.


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/July

by hook or by crook
This etymology really needs to be cleaned up and simplified. And I also really hope it's not a copyright violation. ---> Tooironic 13:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

 * More to the point, it's complete bollocks. I would ditch it all and just say "origin unknown". < class="latinx" >Ƿidsiþ 13:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * EtymOnline says "By hook or by crook (late 14c.) probably alludes to tools of professional thieves". Equinox ◑ 14:05, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Does Crystal's By Hook or by Crook language travelogue have some coverage? DCDuring TALK 14:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia provides this link, which provides credence for the etym, at least as a theory. Also this one (see under "common of estovers"). Several sources refer to Wycliffe's Controversial Tracts as the earliest usage (c.1380) - though the first link above says otherwise. — Pingkudimmi 16:25, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


text:
sexhood

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) The state or condition of one's sex or gender; sexuality.

title: sexhood


text:
votive candle

Noun

 * 1) A thick cylindrical pillar-shaped candle often encased in a glass casing.
 * 2) A small candle burnt as a votive offering in an act of Christian prayer.

title: votive candle


text: votive candles

title: votive candles


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/October

гусеница
I'm looking for the etymology of Polish gąsienica, Russian/Croatian гусеница, Slovene gosenica, Bulgarian гъсеница, Ukrainian гусениця, Macedonian гасеница, Slovak husenica and Czech housenka. Maro 19:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

aviary
Can someone add the etymology for this word? It seems to be quite straight-forward - from Latin aviarium, from ---> Tooironic 12:55, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Done! < class="latinx" >Ƿidsiþ 14:25, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Benigne dicis. ---> Tooironic 11:54, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Hold the ring
Anyone know the etymology of hold the ring (and can add it to the entry)? — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 14:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

 * The original expression was "keep the ring", meaning to keep order amongst the spectators at a fight, first cited in Sporting Magazine, October 1828, but it was also used with the meaning of retaining a title. The OED's first cite of "hold the ring" is from 1928: "... the State ought not to meddle with industry, ... but should confine itself to holding the ring while the disputants fight out their differences.".    D b f  i  r  s   13:14, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


text: Template:fixed

title: Template:fixed


text:
taper candle

Noun

 * 1) A long, narrow cylindrical candle that narrows slightly from a wider base to a conical tip.

title: taper candle


text: taper candles

title: taper candles


text: sînt

title: sînt


text: Category:Romanian obsolete forms

title: Category:Romanian obsolete forms


text: sîntem

title: sîntem


text: sînteți

title: sînteți


text:
flexographically

Adverb

 * 1) By means of flexography.
 * a flexographically printed logo

title: flexographically


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/November

lake
The entry for lake says that the word lake isn't related to lacus, loch, etc; and that it came from Appendix:Proto-Germanic/laguz. But the PG page says they are related. Which one is correct? Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 13:53, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't say lake came from PG *laguz, it says it came from PG *lakō, which has a different origin from *laguz (which in turn is related to lacus, loch, etc.). Lake can come from *lakō, but it can't come from *laguz. However, both the Online Etymology Dictionary and Dictionary.com say the Middle and Modern English word is probably a conflation of the Old English lacu (< PG *lakō < PIE *leg-) with French lac (< Latin lacus < PIE *lakw-) due to their similarity in form and meaning. Anyway, Appendix:Proto-Germanic/laguz doesn't say that lake comes from it. —Angr 14:20, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I see. I had misunderstood that last sentence. Thanks for clearing it up. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 15:03, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/December

astonish
Etymology looks dubious. Merely states: "astony + -ish". The New Oxford American Dictionary reads: ORIGIN early 16th cent. (as astonished, in the sense ‘stunned, bewildered, dismayed’): from obsolete astone ‘stun, stupefy,’ from Old French estoner, based on Latin ex- ‘out’ + tonare ‘to thunder.’ ---> Tooironic 04:45, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The etymology is obscure. The immediate derivation was from "astony" (as used in the King James bible of 1611), but this seems to have been a variant of astone, from Old French estone-r, estuner , estouner  (now étonner).  The "astony" variant was used by Wycliffe ("Þes wordis astonyeden hem.", 1375) and Chaucer ("This soden cas this man astonyed so", 1386), but Tyndale used another variant "astunnyed" in his 1526 bible.   We could certainly improve our entry, since clicking the link to astony doesn't help with the etymology.  Would you like to make the improvement?    D b f  i  r  s   12:28, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The Middle English does a good job. Though I've heard that the Old French  is actually from the same Germanic source as Modern English, as opposed to from Latin. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Gets worse, stun says that astonish is unrelated, while astonen says it might be related. Sigh. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


text:
same-sexness

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) The condition of having or being of the same sex.
 * 2) Homosexuality.
 * 1) Homosexuality.

title: same-sexness


text: axes to grind

title: axes to grind


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2012/February

vitex
Under the Latin section, the etyl template is used to mark this as derived from Sanskrit. Given that it's attested in Pliny the Elder's Naturalis Historia, this seems suspect to me. Lewis & Short (Perseus, online) gives "f. Sanscr. vaja, twig; Gr. ἴτυς, rim", but I interpret that to mean that it's from a PIE root, with those being cognates. Other etymological sources online suggest it's related to English "withy"/German "Weide" and various Baltic and Slavic forms, as well as Latin "vitis", all from a PIE root having something to do with flexible or twistable. Chuck Entz 10:46, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I corrected the etymology. --Vahag 11:46, 5 February 2012 (UTC)


text:
User:PureWhiteKnight

Hi.

title: User:PureWhiteKnight


text:
clavardage

Noun

 * 1)  online chatting

title: clavardage


text: User talk:PureWhiteKnight

title: User talk:PureWhiteKnight


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2012/March

Nike
This etymology goes back to Egyptian, but νίκη does not list that, and it seems unlikely to me, although I have not researched it. Is this reasonable? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Unfortunately, I don't have access to any good Ancient Greek etymological works anymore, so I can't verify the entry. It seems plausible enough.  Ancient Greek did borrow from Egyptian, albeit somewhat uncommonly.  I trust the editor who put it there, but of course good editors do occasionally make mistakes.  I've asked them for their source, so we'll see if they see the message, and if they remember their source.  Correctness aside, I don't think the Egyptian component belongs on the English entry.  The English entry should probably stop at the grc, and the grc should mention the Egyptian.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:27, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

 * I added Beekes' etymology to νίκη. --Vahag (talk) 13:45, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Ceylon
Can somebody please put the Pali and Sanskrit transliterations into their respective scripts? Thanks --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:38, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Similar issues at Serendib. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:39, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I added to Ceylon and Serendib, for Sanksrit. As for Pali, it's also written in the Latin alphabet. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 01:53, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Though the Latin script isn't really native for Pali. Figuring out what script(s) are kosher for representing Pali on Wiktionary will probably be a difficult (and I suspect contentious) question, but I would be quite surprised if the end result included Latin.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:07, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Latin script is the current de-facto standard for Pali at Wiktionary. Both Pali and Sanskrit have the trouble that they have no native script; both are only ever written in scripts designed for other languages, including the Latin script in both cases. Although Devanagari is widely used for Sanskrit, it's no more the native script than the Latin alphabet is. —Angr 02:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't know that, but at least for Sanskrit, Devanagari seems more appropriate. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:40, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

As per de-facto policy, Sanskrit should be rendered in Devanagari and Pali should be rendered in Latin script. -- Liliana • 17:25, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

datolite
If someone could figure out which Greek verb the original author was aiming at, that would be great. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:39, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ —Angr 03:46, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/ayw-
It doesn't seem appropriate to list this (tagged by CodeCat) on RFV, because it cannot be attested... but is it valid? - -sche (discuss) 08:54, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

hemiballismus
I don't know what ballismus is; anyone want to figure this one out? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:18, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * My guess is Ancient Greek + Latin . Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 17:22, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ancient Greek . Source: Stedman's Electronic Medical Dictionary Ver. 6. --Vahag (talk) 18:27, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

homo nulli coloris
I guess maybe this request shouldn't be here, but I'm looking for someone to explain to me why the given etymology of this is true. The only genitive of nullus ought to be nullius, not nulli. How come it's not homo nullius coloris? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:28, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Technically you're right and it would be nullius I imagine. The entry lists it as an alternative form too. On the other hand, analogy between inflections can often change certain words to be more like other words. As far as I know, words with a genitive in -ius are fairly rare compared to those with a genitive in -i, so it's not unlikely that this is simply a matter of regularising an irregular word. I don't know when the phrase was first used or who used it, but it may be relatively late. Is that possible? 00:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, is it possible that nulli is in fact a dative and coloris a genitive? I don't know if that would make any sense in Latin, but maybe? 00:37, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * "Homo nullius coloris" gets about 30 times more g.b.c. hits than "homo nulli coloris". I'd say the entry should be at homo nullius coloris, and homo nulli coloris can be called a "common error of" it or something. —Angr 07:01, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If that's true then I agree it should be moved. 12:19, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

knacker
There are two etymologies here that contradict each other. Which one of these is correct? -- Liliana • 05:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The word has several meanings; I suspect they don't all have the same etymology. Certainly the stuff about Irish is bullshit, as "the horse" is not an each but an t-each, and there doesn't seem to be any such word as eachóir (and if there were, it would be an t-eachóir when it appeared with the definite article anyway). —Angr 19:51, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

halloumi
An IP changed the etymology, but neither the IP's etymology nor the prior etymology agrees with other dictionaries, which posit that this is from Arabic. - -sche (discuss) 18:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2012/April

blend
The etymology says this comes from Old Norse, and explains the vowel 'e' as a case of ablaut. Firstly, it would have been umlaut and not ablaut to change 'a' into 'e'... but more importantly, Gerhard Köbler's dictionary of Old Norse lists this as a class 3 weak verb. This class is special in that it has present singular endings -i(r) but no umlaut. Compare modern Icelandic, which still retains this type of conjugation (our entry has no conjugation table, but Icelandic Wiktionary does). So what doesn't really add up to me is that the etymology explains the 'e' as ablaut/umlaut when grammar predicts it had none. Can anyone find more information on this? 00:27, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Any one grammar or conjugation may not readily predict the different spellings of borrowed or shared words among different languages, say Norse and English. German Balg, from Proto-Germanic *balgiz, is akin to English belly and bellows via OE belg, bylg or bælg, hence the ablaut in point from /a/ to /e/. Another good example may be mar, marsh, mer, mere, mire, mor, moor, morass, muir, and mýri, etc., all apparently rooted in "water." --KYPark (talk) 07:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure how that is related to my question. *balgiz becoming belg is not ablaut, it's umlaut. There is quite a large difference between those two. Ablaut is an Indo-European phenomenon, which became almost entirely unproductive in Proto-Germanic, so that words showing ablaut in later Germanic languages are generally holdovers from Indo-European or Pre-Germanic times. Umlaut is partially Germanic, partially post-Germanic, and is conditioned by a following i/j. The reason why this can't be ablaut is because of the following -nd-. The combination -end- became -ind- in later Proto-Germanic, which means that -end- could not have existed (compare verbs such as ). That means that the -e- must have resulted from umlaut. However, according to the Old Norse grammar presented here, class 3 weak verbs such as this one never showed umlaut: the present tense was blandi(r), and not blendi(r) (and etymologically that conclusion is sound). So this leads me to wonder where the -e- in 'blend' came from, if not from the Old Norse verb 'blanda'. 12:21, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I just dropped in on my way to my part below. And I was foolish to jump into phonology, which is the last of my pride. So forget my naive phonology above. Instead, I would make some extra comments:
 * I suspect Nordic of its etymological root of the southern Germanic, say, the move from ON blanda to OE blandan and blend. Meanwhile,
 * I respect Nordic of its consistency and purity over the southern that must be more blended and corrupted near the busy, crowdy and cloudy, hustle and bustle, cultural center.
 * Not surprisingly, Iceland is marked by both hermitage and heritage of Old Norse.
 * To begin with practically, refer to blend (v.) etymonline. This centers around the PIE root *bhel- "to burn, shine," that is, *bhleg- here, likely akin to Proto-Germanic *blaikaz, *blaikijanan, *blankaz, etc.
 * Unbearably missing here is their prototype noun for fire, whether bæl or pyr. Either blande or blend or many other similars may be rooted in the very bæl, perhaps unfortunately obscured!
 * Summing up, perhaps no fair etymology of blend and so many others without justice to bæl, I fear.

 * Sorry to be late to notice your sincere response. -KYPark (talk) 08:55, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You may wonder why blend may be akin to bæl. My italic foolish in the beginning is deliberate to suggest it may be surprisingly akin to bæl via Latin follis "bellows" and English blow that is essential to make fire. The fire is so deeply rooted in culture. I wonder why Old English borrowed fyr from Greek pyr, besides bæl that is so similar. --KYPark (talk) 09:29, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

@CodeCat: I found an explanation in Cleasby-Vigfússon: blanda was originally a strong verb, with blend in the present tense (e.g. in the Lokasenna), but it weakened/regularised over time. (The word blendingr, "a blending, a mixture, a mischling" kept the e.) - -sche (discuss) 08:14, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

risati
I just happened to see this word and I wonder if it derives from Middle High German (modern ). If it did, then it would be cognate to English as well. 11:59, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

 * They are probably cognates.
 * The Etymolohičes'kyj Slovnyk Ukraïns'koï Movy says that Ukrainian is borrowed from Polish, that there are several Slavic cognates (e.g. Slovene, but no Old Church Slavic or Proto Slavic one), and that it is similar to,  and.
 * The Russische Wortkunde by Eckert/Kirchner/Růžička/Sperber says that Russian is borrowed from Polish, from Middle High German, and cognate to  and.
 * --MaEr (talk) 15:40, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

 * By the way, I wonder why the etymology of risati and the like above would better be discussed here than on each talk page. Surely it is easily noted here. But it is to help note it in each entry at last. The talk page may better link to this section. Or the latter may better, if not best, link to the former where it would be discussed instead of here. --KYPark (talk) 08:19, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

 * It's an old loanword from MHG. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 19:05, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


text:
sustanar

Etymology
,.

Noun

 * 1) cotenant

title: sustanar


text:
bibliolater

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) A worshipper of books, especially the Bible.
 * 2) * 1847-1848,, "Protestantism", in Tait's Edinburgh Magazine
 * Oh, glory of retribution to see the wicked judge of New England roasted in the fire which himself had kindled - to see the cruel bibliolater, in Hamlet's words , " hoist by his own petard . ”

Translations

 * Portuguese: bibliólatra

title: bibliolater


text: bibliolaters

title: bibliolaters


text:
snippock

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) A very small bit; snippet.
 * 2) A very small morsel.

title: snippock


text:
pancratic

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1)  Having all or many degrees of power; having a great range of power; said of an eyepiece made adjustable so as to give a varying magnifying power.
 * 2) Relating to the athletic contest called the pancratium.

title: pancratic


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2012/May

Origin and history of 'of course'
Hello. I looked at the pages for 'of course' and 'course' but couldn't get what I came for:

(1) What was the origin and literal meaning of 'of course', considering there are so many senses to course itself? Which of these senses begat the adverb? That is, how was the expression literally intended or understood when it came to be?

(2) What is the history of this adverb? In which century did it appear? Oldest written usage? When did it become a household expression?

I needed it to try and answer my ESL nephew, but I don't have access to an OED; thanks if you can shed some light... 62.147.27.131 11:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe that originally it meant "in the ordinary course of events". In the 19th century (I believe) it came to mean "naturally", "as expected", "obviously", and was sometimes used just for emphasis. SemperBlotto (talk) 12:27, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Meanwhile, I also found this page that confirms your etymo and provides earlier history. I have added the data to of course (merged with your answer, because "of the ordinary course of events" provides a better literal explanation than theirs), please check my formatting if you can. 62.147.25.98 18:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

tug
How close is German Zug to English tug? --KYPark (talk) 14:12, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

 * The two words are distantly related. I see that tug: is missing an Etymology, so I will add it. I will try and work in some information about Zug: if I can. Leasnam (talk) 15:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks in advance, whatever your edit may be. --KYPark (talk) 15:38, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that today I edited zogo, herizogo, and The Hague. --KYPark (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't find anything about its origin beyond that it comes from a base Germanic stem *tug- and is related to Old English, both from the IE root *dewk-. 16:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Dutch is related, too. It's from Middle Dutch toghe, tueghe, from the same Proto-Germanic . --MaEr (talk) 17:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes and that also gave Old English . 17:28, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is a large family of words: others include team:, tie:, tow:, and even educate:! Leasnam (talk) 17:50, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added an etymology, but I've restricted it to only those words which are immediately related. Otherwise, it could go on for days. Leasnam (talk) 17:51, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've created now, feel free to add descendants to it!  17:52, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is partly due to Verner's Law. Is there an appropriate way to work this into the etymologies somewhere? Chuck Entz (talk) 17:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that would really be useful unless we also want a set a precedent to add similar phonological notes to most of our etymologies. And I think that goes outside the scope of Wiktionary. 18:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we could set up appendices for sound changes, since they're as much a part of etymologies as reconstructed roots. Of course, there would have to be allowance for showing that much is still a matter of debate, including alternate versions. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Our etymology for doceo: refers to a different root, but do you think that perhaps those roots are related? --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 22:01, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is that much information on whether different roots are related. Usually roots are the elemental building blocks for words so there is no real relationship. Sometimes there are different forms of a root (like and ) but that is sporadic and not a regular change.  22:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * May I feel free here to confess my view or prejudice? To me, words are far more related than the orthodox or positivist etymology formally acknowledges. The implicit, hidden aspect of everything exposes the positivist weakest link. I clearly asked if Zug is akin to tug, while unclearly or implicitly if either is akin to duge or the like. Undoubted is the sure relatedness anyway. What remains is historicity, how they came to be related. We all appear shipwrecked here. My breakthrough here is to make and take the best, Achilles guess, maybe a sort of interpretivism. --KYPark (talk) 13:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you mean, in English, meaning "a rank of nobility". duge: is apparently a form of the Danish word , meaning "dew".  -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 03:22, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh i'm so sorry to mistake Danish carelessly for Italian  or Venetian, cognate to English , which evolved from the informal title of an army or war leader to the formal of a prince. Similar appears the case with German  translated into English , etc. One implication may be that German  is synonymous partly to Latin  "war leader" cf. dux bellorum in the archaic sense and partly to English  "prince" in the later. --KYPark (talk) 02:03, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


text: bibliolatrist

title: bibliolatrist


text: bibliolatrists

title: bibliolatrists


text:
Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2012/June

For any and all who care, I have populated Category:Proto-Polynesian language with some of the most basic terms (common nouns and adjectives, numbers one through ten). If anyone is interested in Polynesian etymologies, feel free to help out by improving and adding to these and/or linking to these in etymologies. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 22:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * *Sawaiki should be Proto-Nuclear-Polynesian rather than Proto-Polynesian, unless you know of reflexes in Tongan or Niuean that aren't in Pollex. It's tempting to include PNP and PEP (Proto-Eastern-Polynesian), but they're really separate proto-languages, presumably representing later stages in more restricted subsets of the family. Chuck Entz (talk) 00:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I generally tried to verify at least one Tongic cognate for each, but if you find any more slip-ups, do tell. I'll snoop around for something in Tongan before fixing this, though. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I found a veritable treasure trove on *Sawaiki and PPN: this thread at Unilang. The takeaway is that Avaiki does exist in Niuean (no mention of Tongan), but the two arguing parties are locked on whether it is a recent borrowing/false friend or a legitimate derived term (where we would expect *Havaiki in Niuean instead). I'm leaning towards 19th-c. borrowing, but I'm still trying to save this one. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:33, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that *qarofa is also suspect, and Pollex doesn't seem to have any info on it. Any help would be welcome. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I have found Niuean fakaalofa:, so *qarofa is saved. I will keep *Sawaiki as PPN but add a usage note (we don't have the infrastructure for PNP anyway, even if that niuean placename were found to be unrelated). --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 20:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

 * If you find any etymologies with "Originally x", shoot them on sight. Those are (thankfully departed) User:'s lame version of reconstructed forms. I'm working on replacing them with real etymologies, but feel free to convert them to Proto-Polynesian if you get to them first- just don't assume he got the proto-forms right. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed, and whenever I see them, have been replacing them with real PPN. His forms tend to be incorrect more often than they are correct, but I didn't realize it was all one person. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:48, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Something seems wrong here. How does Greek kolla become English glia? (I notice that Neuroglia says the etymon is a different Greek word for "glue".) —Ruakh TALK 16:53, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There are three grc words for something like "glue" that are much closer. The word closest to  glia seems not to have been as common as at least one of the others. I have added them and commented out tr=kolla. It could be a cognate. DCDuring TALK 17:19, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

mauvais, malvais, malvagio
The current etymology derives the term from Germanic, and posits a change from b- to m- by analogy with. But the etymologies I find elsewhere derive this from Vulgar Latin *malifatius or some variety. The Germanic words mentioned in our etymology don't all seem to be attested either. I can't find any reference to an Old High German balwāsi in any OHG dictionaries, nor to Old Norse bǫlvíss, and even if both are attested they can't be direct cognates because of the difference in the vowels (OHG ā can't correspond to ON í). The Gothic term balwawēsei (an abstract noun) does seem attested, once, but the second term *wēs- doesn't seem to be attested anywhere else in any Germanic language (whereas wīs- is well attested) so it is likely a spelling error for weis- (which is actually wīs- in Gothic spelling). So, if this does derive from Germanic, there are some loose ends that the etymology doesn't explain satisfactorily. 22:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

 * My dictionaries don't even mention the Germanic theory. They have the Vulgar Latin origin only.
 * Old Norse bǫlvíss seems a compound to me: bǫl (n wa-stem) meaning "Übel, Unheil" in German + víss. But this is just for completeness sake. I'd rather rely on the dictionaries and remove that Germanic theory from the lemma.
 * --MaEr (talk) 15:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Spanish and Portuguese malvado seem to be cognate. There's also a very rare verb malvar (I'm trying to track back to where I saw this: most dictionaries don't have it), but it may just be a back-formation from malvado. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

 * See for malvagio: etymology. SemperBlotto (talk) 16:27, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Well, at least now we have a good idea as to where Leasnam got his etymology from. My first impression is that the references to Old English (I'm assuming that's what ang-sass refers to) with bal- instead of beal- don't look right. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

 * I think the form balowiso or baluwiso is the Old Saxon version of this word ( = the Devil). Old English (West Saxon dialect) would normally break the first vowel into ea in this instance. I actually got the etymology from a French Etymological dictionary here []. Leasnam (talk) 22:55, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * A Google Books Search for 'balvais' will also turn up additional references and sources. Leasnam (talk) 23:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

lóð, etymology 2
Judging from the meaning, this is probably from Middle Low German (compare Dutch, German ). I don't think it can be native Old Norse because the Germanic term was and au remains unchanged in Icelandic (at least in spelling). Can anyone confirm this? 13:09, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

 * I have no dictionary that says that lóð is borrowed but your assumptions about the vowels are correct, as far as I can see.
 * Danish lod (http://ordnet.dk/ods/ordbog?select=Lod,2&query=lod) and Swedish lod (http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/show.phtml?filenr=1/142/44.html) are borrowed from Middle Low German, as well as Faer. lóður (according to Alf Torp, Nynorsk etymologisk ordbok). --MaEr (talk) 17:49, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

This Italian word's etymology section describes it as "wordplay" on the name of Alexander's horse. Is that so? - -sche (discuss) 07:35, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Famously, Latin is not a native word, and presumably was borrowed from somewhere, but etymologists have not agreed on a source. I have never heard this theory before though and it sounds very speculative. Different books I have suggest Gaulish or Anatolian sources; for our purposes I'd think it's best just to say ‘origin uncertain’. Ƿidsiþ 07:42, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ridiculous. The origin of caballus: is questionable (and our etym could probably do a better job), but the origin of cavallo: is not. I will remove the stupidity in a day or so if nobody comes up with a good reason why I shouldn't. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:33, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect the "wordplay" theory is referring to Latin caballus, not to cavallo, but either way it needs to go if it can't be backed up with published sources. —Angr 19:02, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

inimitable
Would love to know the etymology of this word. First came across it the other day in an old TV show where Mama Cass was introduced as "the most fantastic lady of the Now Sound: the inimitable Miss Mama Cass." ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:01, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I imagine it's + .  23:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * In that case would you mind adding that to the entry? Cheers. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:18, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Differences in Greek Languages
I am editting a word using and the etymology section of the word states Late Greek, then says Greek. I assume that Greek is Ancient Greek; However what would I classify Late Greek as. I used the code gkm. Thanks in advance. Speednat (talk) 14:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For Wiktionary's purposes, there's Ancient Greek (see WT:AGRC) and Modern Greek (see WT:AEL), with the arbitrary cutoff set at the fall of Constantinople in 1453. Mycenaean Greek (gmy) is a special subset of Ancient Greek. Referring to things like Late Greek or Medieval Greek in etymologies is not a problem, but there's no point in changing "Late Greek" to "gkm", since our categorization doesn't make that distinction. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that helps a lot.Speednat (talk) 15:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Where did you get the code "gkm" from? It doesn't seem to be an ISO 639-3 code. —Angr 18:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably from WT:LANGLIST Chuck Entz (talk) 01:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * gkm was requested. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 01:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Junco
An etymology of this bird-name is found in just about every English-language bird book that states that the name comes from a word for a medieval executioner, because the black head and shoulder feathers resemble the hood such executioners wore. While I don't doubt that medieval executioners wore such a hood, I can't seem to find such a word.The derivation found in dictionaries from 🇨🇬 from 🇨🇬, both meaning rush (the plant, genus Juncus) makes perfect sense from a historical-linguistics point of view.

Is this etymology from bird books an erroneous factoid that someone made up and everyone else copied without checking, or is there a real sense of junco that I just haven't found documentation of (yet)? Chuck Entz (talk) 10:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The OED says it is from the Spanish for reed: - and says the English word refers to the reed bunting, reed sparrow or American finches. SemperBlotto (talk) 11:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

retina
I've added an etymology for this word, from the etymonline website. Can I ask one of you guys to check if I did it right (should the source be in the same heading as the etymology?), and then tell me what mistakes I made? (I needed it to compare Latvian tīklene 'retina', which I think is a calque of the original Latin.) --Pereru (talk) 13:27, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I tidied it up a bit. One mistake you made was putting ==Etymology== with only 2 = signs instead of ===Etymology===. Another mistake (which I didn't correct) is that you have copied the Online Etymology Dictionary's text word for word. That's a copyright violation. You can use it a source, but you have to state the etymology in your own words. Finally, the Arabic and Greek should be given in their native scripts. If you don't know those scripts, you can request them using the tag. —Angr 14:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've now changed the text of the etymology of retina so that it differs (I hope substantially) from the original. Could you give it another look, just in case this wasn't enough or there is some other mistake I haven't seen? Thanks! --Pereru (talk) 12:58, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


text: pepla

title: pepla


text: 𐍄𐍅𐍉𐍃

title: 𐍄𐍅𐍉𐍃


text:
sustanarka

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) cotenant

title: sustanarka


text: Category:Gothic numeral forms

title: Category:Gothic numeral forms


text: Category:Gothic numerals

title: Category:Gothic numerals


text:
tripartiteness

Noun

 * 1) The quality of being tripartite.

title: tripartiteness


text: 𐍄𐍅𐌰

title: 𐍄𐍅𐌰


text:
Talk:robotnik

I think this also means "worker" in Serbo-Croatian. I remember seeing it an old English<->SC dictionary: it stuck in my head because it happened to be the name of the villain from the Sonic the Hedgehog series. Equinox ◑ 23:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hard to say. I searched under the Serbian spelling, роботник, to try to avoid Sonic hits, but it didn't seem to work too well (yup, Доктор Эггман aka Doctor Eggman). All Japanophile borrowings from ロボトニッ. Ask a Serb/Croat/Bosnian/Herzegovinian/Montenegrin/IndependentPiddlyRepublicofOneselfian. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 23:34, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:robotnik


text:
phalansterism

Noun

 * 1) A system of phalansteries; Fourierism.

title: phalansterism


text: bootings

title: bootings


text:
à tout-va

Adjective

 * 1) excessive, immoderate, imprudent

Adverb

 * 1) without limitation, excessively; left and right, like crazy

title: à tout-va


text: à tout va

title: à tout va


text:
User talk:Boxieman

bad dog
What was your rationale behind the redirect? Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 23:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have deleted it. Please read WT:REDIR. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 23:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Apart from that, I truly don't understand the redirect... Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 23:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Hi. I had to delete your redirect security system because we don't even allow redirects from one spelling of a word to another, much less from one term to one that is completely different. Cheers :) —Internoob 04:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

chai tea
I don't mind rfd it, but at least learn to create a proper entry. See WT:ELE. Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 21:37, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

title: User talk:Boxieman


text: etidronates

title: etidronates


text:
dog

Etymology 1
(akin to 🇨🇬), from, , of  origin.

The original meaning seems to have been a common dog, as opposed to a well-bred one, or something like 'cur', and perhaps later came to be used for stocky dogs. Possibly a pet-form diminutive with suffix (compare, ), appended to a base ,  of unclear origin and meaning. One possibility is (compare  from ). Another proposal is that it derives from 🇨🇬, the origin of 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬. The theory goes that it could have been an epithet for dogs, commonly used by children, meaning "good/useful animal.". Another is that it is related to, from , whence.

In 14th-century England, (from ) was the general word for all domestic canines, and dog referred to a subtype resembling the modern mastiff and bulldog. By the 16th century, dog had become the general word, and hound had begun to refer only to breeds used for hunting. In the 16th century, the word dog was adopted by several continental European languages as their word for.

Despite similarities in forms and meaning, not related to.

Noun

 * 1) A mammal of the family :
 * 2) The species  (sometimes designated ), domesticated for thousands of years and of highly variable appearance because of human breeding.
 * 3) Any member of the family Canidae, including domestic dogs, wolves, coyotes, jackals, foxes, and their relatives ; canid.
 * 4)  A male dog, wolf, or fox, as opposed to a bitch or vixen.
 * 5)  The meat of this animal, eaten as food.
 * 6) A person:
 * 7)  A dull, unattractive girl or woman.
 * 8)  A man, guy, chap.
 * 9)  Someone who is cowardly, worthless, or morally reprehensible.
 * 10)  A sexually aggressive man.
 * 11) A mechanical device or support:
 * 12) Any of various mechanical devices for holding, gripping, or fastening something, particularly with a tooth-like projection.
 * 13)  A click or pallet adapted to engage the teeth of a ratchet wheel, to restrain the back action.
 * 14) A metal support for logs in a fireplace.
 * 15)  A double-ended side spike driven through a hole in the flange of a rail on a tramway.
 * 16)  The eighteenth Lenormand card.
 * 17) A hot dog: a frankfurter, wiener, or similar sausage; or a sandwich made from this.
 * 18)  An underdog.
 * 19)  Foot; toe.
 * 20)  (from "dog and bone") Phone or mobile phone.
 * 21) One of the cones used to divide up a racetrack when training horses.
 * 22)  Something that performs poorly.
 * 23)  A flop; a film that performs poorly at the box office.
 * 24)  A cock, as of a gun.
 * 25)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.
 * 1) A mechanical device or support:
 * 2) Any of various mechanical devices for holding, gripping, or fastening something, particularly with a tooth-like projection.
 * 3)  A click or pallet adapted to engage the teeth of a ratchet wheel, to restrain the back action.
 * 4) A metal support for logs in a fireplace.
 * 5)  A double-ended side spike driven through a hole in the flange of a rail on a tramway.
 * 6)  The eighteenth Lenormand card.
 * 7) A hot dog: a frankfurter, wiener, or similar sausage; or a sandwich made from this.
 * 8)  An underdog.
 * 9)  Foot; toe.
 * 10)  (from "dog and bone") Phone or mobile phone.
 * 11) One of the cones used to divide up a racetrack when training horses.
 * 12)  Something that performs poorly.
 * 13)  A flop; a film that performs poorly at the box office.
 * 14)  A cock, as of a gun.
 * 15)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.
 * 1)  (from "dog and bone") Phone or mobile phone.
 * 2) One of the cones used to divide up a racetrack when training horses.
 * 3)  Something that performs poorly.
 * 4)  A flop; a film that performs poorly at the box office.
 * 5)  A cock, as of a gun.
 * 6)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.
 * 1)  A flop; a film that performs poorly at the box office.
 * 2)  A cock, as of a gun.
 * 3)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.
 * 1)  A cock, as of a gun.
 * 2)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.
 * 1)  A cock, as of a gun.
 * 2)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.
 * 1)  A dance having a brief vogue in the 1960s in which the actions of a dog were mimicked.

Synonyms

 * taxonomic names:, , , Canis canis, Canis aegyptius, Canis familiarus aegyptius, Canis melitaeus, Canis familiarus melitaeus, Canis molossus, Canis familiarus molossus, Canis saultor, Canis familiaris saultor
 * ,, ; see also Thesaurus:dog
 * , chap, dude, fellow, guy, man; see also Thesaurus:man
 * , chap, dude, fellow, guy, man; see also Thesaurus:man
 * , chap, dude, fellow, guy, man; see also Thesaurus:man

Verb

 * 1)  To pursue with the intent to catch.
 * 2)  To follow in an annoying or harassing way.
 * 3)  To fasten a hatch securely.
 * 4)  To watch, or participate, in sexual activity in a public place.
 * 5)  To intentionally restrict one's productivity as employee; to work at the slowest rate that goes unpunished.
 * 6)  To criticize.
 * 7)  To divide (a watch) with a comrade.
 * 1)  To fasten a hatch securely.
 * 2)  To watch, or participate, in sexual activity in a public place.
 * 3)  To intentionally restrict one's productivity as employee; to work at the slowest rate that goes unpunished.
 * 4)  To criticize.
 * 5)  To divide (a watch) with a comrade.
 * 1)  To intentionally restrict one's productivity as employee; to work at the slowest rate that goes unpunished.
 * 2)  To criticize.
 * 3)  To divide (a watch) with a comrade.
 * 1)  To criticize.
 * 2)  To divide (a watch) with a comrade.
 * 1)  To divide (a watch) with a comrade.
 * 1)  To divide (a watch) with a comrade.

Derived terms

 * all dogged up

Translations

 * Bulgarian:
 * Dutch: ,
 * Finnish: ,
 * Georgian: ნადირობა
 * German:, ,
 * Russian:
 * Spanish:

 * Bulgarian: ходя по петите
 * Dutch: ,
 * Finnish:, ,
 * German:, , an den Fersen bleiben

 * Dutch: ,
 * Finnish: ,
 * German:, , ,

Etymology 2
.

Adjective

 * 1)  Of inferior quality; dogshit.

Etymology
From.

Etymology
.

Etymology
. Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) dog

Etymology 1
, which is translation of, which is a homophone of , which is a euphemism of.

Etymology 2
From.

Etymology
, which was borrowed from, ultimately from.

Adverb

 * 1) however

Conjunction

 * 1) though

Etymology
. Attested since the 16th century.

Noun

 * 1) A large, especially one of certain breeds.

Etymology
.

Etymology
From *dwog(a) < *udwoga < *gudwaga <. Related to 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬. .

Noun

 * 1) dog

Etymology
.

Interjection

 * 1) thump, dub

Adverb

 * 1) however

Conjunction

 * 1) though

Etymology
, from, from.

Noun

 * 1) mastiff

Etymology
, from.

Noun

 * 1) mastiff

Etymology
.

Etymology
.

title: dog


text: Category:Proto-Indo-European determiners


text: 𐍄𐍅𐌰𐌽𐍃

title: 𐍄𐍅𐌰𐌽𐍃


text: 𐍄𐍅𐌰𐌳𐌳𐌾𐌴

title: 𐍄𐍅𐌰𐌳𐌳𐌾𐌴


text: 𐍄𐍅𐌰𐌹𐌼

title: 𐍄𐍅𐌰𐌹𐌼


text: tougher nut to crack

title: tougher nut to crack


text: tougher nuts to crack

title: tougher nuts to crack


text: toughest nut to crack

title: toughest nut to crack


text: toughest nuts to crack

title: toughest nuts to crack


text:
lamiaceous

Adjective

 * 1)  Of or relating to the family  of mint and its close relatives.

title: lamiaceous


text:
lion's tail

Noun

 * , a broadleaf evergreen shrub with medicinal and psychoactive properties.

title: lion's tail


text: impendencies

title: impendencies


text:
impendency

Noun

 * 1) The state of impending.
 * 2) That which impends.

title: impendency


text:
iridological

Adjective

 * 1) Relating to iridology.

title: iridological


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/Gothic cardinal numerals

Hi, CodeCat! I've started working on Latvian numbers, which led me to Gothic numbers (via cognate lists in the Latvian Etymological Dictionary), which led me to see that Gothic cardinal numerals are listed as cardinal numbers. I've changed to categorize into Category:Gothic cardinal numerals instead of Category:Gothic cardinal numbers (since the former is more accurate), and I'm changing "Numeral" to "Cardinal numeral" in headers. All in all it's a small change, but since you are the person who is interested in Gothic, I thought about checking with you first to be sure everything is OK. (I've also created a few form-of pages -- with a new template that I created -- with the forms whose Romanized forms were blue in the declension table, i.e., those that are actually attested.) --Pereru (talk) 23:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


text:
gavel to order

Verb

 * 1)  To initiate or restore the orderly functioning of (a meeting or function or assembly or court), usually by pounding a gavel or similar hammer.

title: gavel to order


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/Gothic cardinal numerals/reply

Actually I'm slowly emptying out both categories in all languages. This has been a long-standing debate that seems to have finally been settled. The situation I'm working to create is: a single part-of-speech header and category, Category:Gothic numerals, and separate topical categories Category:got:Cardinal numbers and Category:got:Ordinal numbers. So should probably become  to match the part of speech.


text:
bring to order

Verb

 * 1) To formally begin or restore the orderly functioning of (a meeting or assembly or legislature or similar body).

title: bring to order


text:
multivagant

Etymology
From , from  +. Compare, present participle of. See.

Adjective

 * 1)  wandering a lot

title: multivagant


text: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌾𐌰

title: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌾𐌰


text: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌽𐍃

title: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌽𐍃


text:
𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌾𐌴

Etymology
Contrast with 🇨🇬, which underwent Verschärfung.

title: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌾𐌴


text: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌼

title: 𐌸𐍂𐌹𐌼


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌽𐌰

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌽𐌰


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌹𐍃

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌹𐍃


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌼𐌼𐌰

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌼𐌼𐌰


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐍄𐌰

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐍄𐌰


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌹

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌹


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌽𐍃

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌽𐍃


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌹𐌼

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌹𐌼


text: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌹𐌶𐍉𐍃

title: 𐌰𐌹𐌽𐌰𐌹𐌶𐍉𐍃


text:
Wiktionary talk:Todo/Entries containing unpiped w:-links

Code
—Ruakh TALK 00:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/Gothic cardinal numerals/reply (2)

From what I've been taught (and also taught to others), "2" is a cardinal number, and "two" is a cardinal numeral; which is why, for Latvian, I created Category:Latvian cardinal numerals and Category:Latvian cardinal numeral forms. What were the arguments against this arrangement? Can I still participate in the discusion, or does "settled" here mean that there is no appeal? (OK, I don't want to be difficult or reinvent the wheel; but I would like to be convinced that the organization you outline is indeed the best.) --Pereru (talk) 00:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


text:
de bout en bout

Adverb

 * 1) from start to finish, from one end to the other

title: de bout en bout


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/Gothic cardinal numerals/reply (3)

There is appeal but I really hope you let it rest. Or it probably never will. :/ The reasoning is that "numeral" is considered a grammatical part of speech, but "cardinal numeral" generally isn't. At least not from what I've found. 2 and two are both numerals, since they both refer to a number (the second positive integer). So the new category structure is an attempt to make a clear distinction between grammatical function (numeral) and their underlying meaning (number). Those two things do not always have to coincide. Most "ordinals" are not actually a distinct part of speech in many languages (including Gothic), but often are adjectives. The cardinal number 100 in Gothic (hund) is a noun, not a numeral, since it has a gender. The multiples of ten are likewise noun phrases, and take a genitive whereas true numerals can take any case in Gothic.


text:
à bout

Etymology
Perhaps an or.

Adjective

 * 1)  at the end of one's tether

title: à bout


text: divās

title: divās


text: divu

title: divu


text: diviem

title: diviem


text: divām

title: divām


text:
пачъыхь

Alternative forms

 * (Shapsug dialect)

Noun

 * 1) king, emperor, caesar, sultan

Synonyms

 * (Kabardian dialect)
 * (Kabardian dialect)

title: пачъыхь


text:
гуащэ

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) lady
 * 2) a woman's mother-in-law: her husband's mother
 * 3) princess
 * 4)  wife
 * 1)  wife

Noun

 * 1) princess

title: гуащэ


text:
User talk:220.135.12.207

Your recent edits
Please do not revert the edits made by an admin. There is a reason why I changed the language code from chin to cmn, because chin is not a valid language code. Take notes please. Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 01:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

title: User talk:220.135.12.207


text:
нысэ

Etymology
Possibly from or.

Noun

 * 1) bride
 * 2) daughter-in-law
 * 3) sister-in-law

Etymology
Possibly from or.

Noun

 * 1) bride
 * 2) daughter-in-law
 * 3) sister-in-law

title: нысэ


text:
малхъо

Noun

 * 1) brother-in-law
 * си малхъо къэкӏуагъ — My brother-in-law came.

Synonyms

 * (Kabardian)
 * (Kabardian)
 * (Kabardian)
 * (Kabardian)
 * (Kabardian)

title: малхъо


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/Gothic cardinal numerals/reply (4)

If "numeral" is considered a grammatical part of speech, then "cardinal numeral" is a subset of it, similar to "transitive verb" with respect to "verb". From this perspective, I can understand not wanting to have "cardinal numeral" as the header (just like "transitive verb"); but not why organize the categories differently (after all, Category:English transitive verbs exists and is a part-of-speech, non-topic subcategory of Category:English verbs).

Also, if both "2" and "two" are considered (grammatical) numerals, this tends to make "numeral" a bad label for a grammatical category, since it would then include "2", which is not a word.

The point about ordinals often not forming a coherent grammatical category is well taken, but isn't that similar to, say, participles, which often live astraddle between verbs and adjectives? If one were to use the same reasoning, then "participle" should became a topic category.


text:
мэлхъогъ

Noun

 * 1) A man's wife's sister's husband.
 * си мэлхъогъ къэкӏуагъ — My wife's sister's husband came.
 * Томымрэ Джонымрэ змэлхъогъых — Tom and John are "malkhogs".

Usage notes

 * English does not have a precise term for this relationship; rather, a phrase such as "wife's brother-in-law" or "sister-in-law's husband" is usually used. However, the term, which normally refers to a spouse's brother or a sister's husband, is sometimes extended to cover this relationship as well.

title: мэлхъогъ


text:
Silent Generation

Etymology
Popularized in a Time article in 1951.

Proper noun

 * 1) The generation of people born from the late 1920s to the early 1940s.

title: Silent Generation


text:
Talk:мэлхъогъ

Lets take for example two people, Mike and Tom (they have to be male). They both married, and there wifes are sisters. because they married sisters they are мэлхъогъ.

When someone asks you who is your мэлхъогъ, it's your wife's sister's husband.

Can someone please explain this better and put a definition?--Adamsa123 (talk) 01:35, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "wife's sister's husband" sounds ok to me. Can it also be a wife's brother's wife/husband? Or a husband's sister's wife/husband? 01:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope, it must be two people that married two sisters.--Adamsa123 (talk) 01:50, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, so it is two men who married sisters. Does мэлхъогъ refer to both men together, or each one of them? 01:51, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * each one of them.--Adamsa123 (talk) 01:54, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I think "wife's sister's husband" is ok. 01:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * yes it well be fine.--Adamsa123 (talk) 01:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:мэлхъогъ


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/Gothic cardinal numerals/reply (5)

Cardinal numeral may be a subset of it, but it is not a distinct part of speech. In Gothic for example, all numerals are words for cardinal numbers, there is no such thing as an "ordinal numeral" in Gothic.

2 and two are both numerals but of a different kind. Two is a numeral word while 2 is a numeral symbol. I actually wanted to keep numbers in a part-of-speech like category. But it was argued that those words are not themselves numbers, they refer to numbers in the same way that toponyms refer to places. The word London isn't a place, it's a word referring to a place. In the same way, two is not a number, it refers to one. What distinguishes cardinals from ordinals is that they refer to numbers in different ways. Words for cardinal numbers indicate the size of a set (which is unordered) while words for ordinal numbers indicate the relative position in a list (which is ordered).

Unfortunately, the current category for numeral symbols is called "numbers", mixing the two kinds of words together. The move I am doing right now is partly an attempt to separate the two kinds. But the category for numerical symbols will need to be renamed sometime in the future, too.

Ordinals do form a coherent grammatical category... but that category contains more than just ordinals, since they don't have their own 'special place' grammatically - there is little grammatically that separates other modifying words (like adjectives) from ordinal number words. It is no coincidence that in for example English and Dutch the ordinal "first" has the same inflection as a superlative adjective, and in Gothic the word for "first" is a comparative. Ordinals typically serve to lift out a specimen with a particular property, which is also what comparatives and superlatives do.

Participles are a different matter... they behave like a mix between verbs and adjectives, and the idea of calling "participle" a separate part of speech is an attempt to find a single cover term to describe words that show both of those behaviours together.


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-0

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-0


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-a

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-a


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-b

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-b


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-c

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-c


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-d

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-d


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-e

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-e


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-f

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-f


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-g

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-g


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-h

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-h


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-i

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-i


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-j

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-j


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-k

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-k


text:
spherocytosis

Noun

 * 1)  A medical condition in which the red blood cells are globular spheres, rather than having the normal biconvex shape, and are therefore more prone to physical degradation, leading to hemolytic anemia

Translations

 * Italian:

title: spherocytosis


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-l

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-l


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-m

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-m


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-n

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-n


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-o

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-o


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-p

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-p


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-q

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-q


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-r

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-r


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-s

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-s


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-t

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-t


text:
ны

Noun

 * 1) mother

Synonyms

 * (Kabardian dialect)

title: ны


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-u

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-u


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-v

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-v


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-w

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-w


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-x

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-x


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-y

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-y


text: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-z

title: User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ko-z


text:
ӏэнэжъ

Noun

 * 1) grandma

title: ӏэнэжъ


text:
ӏэтэжъ

Noun

 * 1) grandpa

title: ӏэтэжъ


text:
нэнэжъ

Noun

 * 1) grandma

title: нэнэжъ


text:
тэтэжъ

Noun

 * 1) grandpa

title: тэтэжъ


text:
къугъо

Synonyms

 * (Adyghe)

title: къугъо


text:
ятӏэ

Noun

 * 1) dirt

Noun

 * 1) dirt

title: ятӏэ


text:
сапэ

Noun

 * 1) dust

title: сапэ


text:
псапэ

Noun

 * 1) redemption, good deed

title: псапэ


text:
пахъэ

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) steam

Synonyms

 * (Kabardian)

title: пахъэ


text:
хъуанэ

Noun

 * 1) curse, swear

Noun

 * 1) curse, swear

title: хъуанэ


text:
хэку

Noun

 * 1) homeland, land

Etymology
From, compare 🇨🇬.

Adjective

 * 1) hot

title: хэку


text:
махъэ

Alternative forms

 * (Other Adyghe dialects)

title: махъэ


text:
хъан

Noun

 * 1) inn

title: хъан


text:
пцантхьэ

Noun

 * 1) glue

Synonyms

 * (Shapsug dialect)

title: пцантхьэ


text:
Talk:псапэ

Is redeemed a adverb?--Adamsa123 (talk) 02:22, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 * It's a verb form, as well as an adjective derived from the verb form. See [[redeemed]]. —Ruakh TALK 02:27, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 * In the Circassian language the word psapa (псапэ) isn't a verb. Example sentence : that guy earned a psapa (псапэ).--Adamsa123 (talk) 11:02, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Maybe ? —Ruakh TALK 12:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * yes, it's better.--Adamsa123 (talk) 12:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:псапэ


text: 悬索桥

title: 悬索桥


text:
щао

Noun

 * 1) garden
 * 2) yard

title: щао