text:
Template talk:ja-romaji

to be discussed
See Beer_parlour/2013/February. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Category:Japanese romaji without a main entry
I have added this part: <!--

To add entries without an entry it links to Category:Japanese romaji without a main entry as in Template:got-romanization of but it has added extra spaces to romaji entries. Can someone fix it please? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:06, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for fixing, Wyang. It doesn't seem to work well, though. Should it check for all six parameters? It has added many entries to Category:Japanese romaji without a main entry when a kana entry exists (blue linked). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Metaknowledge. -age has kana entry and many others. We still have many false positives. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:31, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I reverted your last edit. It doesn't matter if it's deprecated; we can remove that when it's actually gone. I'm not sure why some of the false positives still exist, though. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:21, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I was just replacing hira with 2 (unnamed second parameter), which is current. You see, there are 6 unnamed parameters and deprecated hira, hira2, hira3, kata, kata2 and kata3. Checking for all 12 is harder than just 2. Perhaps we should just worry about six current params? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think we should remove all instances of deprecated params (through AWB, optimally; if you can't do it, make a request at the GP or ask a user like Mglovesfun or -sche) before using this category, because too many #ifexist calls is expensive and will affect performance. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Mglovesfun opposes this format, AFAIK. -sche was busy with Russian, I asked him before. Besides, when I asked about some help on this template, I only got criticism. I have asked CodeCat, because I borrowed this logic from his Template:got-romanization of, which works (it only has one parameter). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * False positives still exist and what's interesting, many of them have hira, a deprecated parameter. Can we remove the check for hira? That way, we can also clean up entries using the deprecated parameter. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * For example? Wyang (talk) 02:56, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Yeah! Thanks for fixing! Wyang, could you check for 6 current unnamed parameters and stop checking for deprecated parameters - hira, hira2, hira3, kata, kata2 and kata3? E.g. abekkuhōmuran uses "kata". Let it be a false positive, so that we clean and remove hira and kata? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Should be done now. Both are categorised into the same category, but labelled differently. When this template is used with both deprecated parameter(s) and nonexistent links, it is categorised into the former. Wyang (talk) 03:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks a bunch! 非常感谢！ What do you mean by labelling? Sorting? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:24, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Yes, sorting, if that's the correct terminology :) Wyang (talk) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Wyang, could you please check kaeru, カエル doesn't exist but the entry was not picked up. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:24, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Should be fine now. Wyang (talk) 06:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * 干得好！ --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 09:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * We have cleaned the deprecated parameters but we have some false positives, e.g. zenko in Category:Japanese romaji without a main entry. Could you have a look, please? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 11:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

 * It's a server refreshing issue. If you go to edit (the category should be down at the bottom), submit without any change, and then go to edit again, the category probably will disappear. Wyang (talk) 11:46, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I edited and saved the page without change but didn't see any change. Need your help with this. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 12:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm currently seeing 50 pages in the category, all of which seem to be correctly categorised: Aoi, aozamezoku, bishōnen, biwa, bui, chanoyu, chū, debu, doji, emu, gen, gokkun, gwa, hadōken, higurashi, hishi, hokku, jin, ken, kizuna, kokku, koma, kora, kotsu, kwa, kyōku, mana, niwatori, Pekin, ratengo, rōmaji, shogi, shuriken, shō, tahibari, taiin, tokudane, Tokushima, tsumajiro, ugui, va, ve, vi, vo, we, wi, wo, yare, zazen, zāzā. Wyang (talk) 12:17, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I can see 50 entries now too! Not sure what happened before but thank you very much. Do you mind helping me with Template:pinyin reading of, please? It's a similar issue. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 12:31, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:ja-romaji
This template is in direct conflict with our policy page WT:ELE. All entries must have an inflection line and a definition introduced by the hash character #. This template attempts to subvert policy without the community consensus needed to achieve such a far-reaching change. Therefore, it should be sent to space and never return. -- Liliana • 21:57, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The template produces # on a new line with links to hiragana and katakana entries. The way to handle Japanese romaji entries is a result of a long discussion and a consensus with advanced editors who usually work with Japanese who created those entries and edited them. Like Mandarin and Gothic romanization entries, Template:ja-romaji doesn't use inflection lines. The template is used, it's part of the policy for Japanese romaji entries and of course, it should be kept. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:25, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

 * JA romanizations can correspond to one, two, or more JA kana spellings. Requiring multiple invocations on separate # lines seems a bit like tedium for tedium's sake.  If a technical policy discussion is warranted, let's discuss.  Nominating this for deletion without first discussing the technical issues seems a bit rash.  -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 22:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

 * WT:ELE shows how entries are normally formatted, but I can’t find the part where it says they “must” have a hash character. Can someone help me out with a quote or section link?

 * I can see advantages in duplicating and improving the same functionality with a template. Anyway, this bears wider discussion to avoid people going off. —Michael Z. 2013-03-25 22:40 z

 * I can't find this but originally the template had * on a new line, then we changed to #, so it's not picked up as a badly formatted by the bots. A Japanese romaji entry, e.g. "tsuku" is formatted exactly as a model Mandarin pinyin entry "yánlì"
 * As Eirikr pointed out, romaji serves as a disambiguation to kana spellings, kana spellings in turn link to multiple kanji. Even compared to Mandarin entries, there are more steps (Mandarin pinyin to hanzi - one to many, Japanese romaji - kana - kanji - one to many - one to many). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * With the previous system, the ideal was to have the romaji page match a kana page exactly (except for proper nouns which we generally write with the first letter in upper case--so けんじ gets both kenji and Kenji. The way you do that is copy, paste, and tweak the parameters.  Copy-and-paste was the ideal.  Something about that seems wrong to me.  If some editor falls short of the ideal, and adds another Kenji to the page of Kenjis without copy-pasting it to けんじ?  There are quite a lot of ways to write Kenji, so I'm sure I missed a few.  If the romaji page is added, a dutiful copy-paster has to mirror the change.  Personally, after several thousand copy-pastes (usually creations) I began to feel that I was wasting my time.  If someone can make a bot to make all the romaji pages, ok, as long as another bot can keep them all in sych with their mirror kana pages.  I've never heard of a bot that can merge glosses.
 * I'm not an expert on all of the policies here, but there's an even more basic principle that a page should have information that belongs on that page and only on that page, that it should have some purpose for existing and not merely be a mirror. Should every romaji page have a disclaimer under "Edit" that says "you may edit, but don't add anything valuable here, it's just a copy of another page" ?
 * Regardless of the outcome of this kerfuffle, I'm not making any more copy-paste mirror romaji entries. Good luck finding people who will. --Haplology (talk) 02:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

 * You did a great job when you thought it was the right thing to do but yes, romaji entries get out of synch quickly and as you said, it is a waste of time to duplicate the same information when it could be kept at one place. Simplifying the romaji entries do not destroy anything because hiragana entries have that and more. Kanji and kana entries always provide romanisation, including all user examples and inflection, which is a bonus few other languages in non-Roman script here enjoy. It is a very hard job to keep entries in sync, let alone continue doing this for ever. With simplification, more time will be available to work on real Japanese script entries and make sure that all romaji entries are created (this can be done with a bot and won't take long for a human to create, even with less knowledge of Japanese) and no native script variation is missed. I see it as a huge improvement, not a loss. Nothing is destroyed. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:31, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

 * @Mzajac: I think you're looking for ELE -- Liliana • 15:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Yes, that’s the bit I was referring to. I don’t infer “all entries must” in that. —Michael Z. 2013-03-26 17:55 z

 * The result of Template:ja-romaji is also very similar to a huge number of term in different languages - Category:Alternative_forms_by_language with # Alternative spelling of or # Alternative form of, which are not definitions but soft redirects. Template:ja-romaji uses # See: and doesn't allow to add definitions, only new links (up to six, which we have decided to be sufficient for hiragana, katakana variants and mixed scripts). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:29, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I dislike the format, it should either be a headword-line template, or a definition template, but not both. Make it analogous to, and so on. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

 * To what end, though? The current format supplies both headword and def lines in one convenient package.  Splitting it into separate headword and def-line templates doesn't seem at all useful.  -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 17:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Mglovesfun, the template is part of the vote, it was a major point in the BP discussion, was added to WT:AJA. Please also see my response on Wiktionary_talk:Votes/pl-2013-03/Japanese_Romaji_romanization_-_format_and_content where Eirikr and I tried to clarify the differences. Does your opposition to the template mean that you also oppose the vote Votes/pl-2013-03/Japanese Romaji romanization - format and content, which also includes the format? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:30, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm suggesting reforming the template, not deleting it. The lack of a hash is very confusing both for human and bot editors; will be tagging these with  because of the lack of a definition preceded by a hash. As I human editor I find it confusing too, it makes me want to add a definition or add . So in short it makes sense for ease of use for human and bot editors (which is all editors). Mglovesfun (talk) 16:09, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

 * @Mglovesfun:
 * 1) KassadBot either isn't running, or isn't flagging these entries.  I just checked Category:Japanese_definitions_needed, and none of the romaji entries using  are listed.  The only romaji entry currently listed is the decidedly malformed entry at [[rin]].  If KassadBot is running, then presumably either 1) the bot doesn't see these as confusing, or 2) Liliana or someone else has reprogrammed the bot to recognize these entries as okay.
 * 2) As a human editor, if you saw an entry in the regular rendered view that appeared correctly, why would you feel any need to change the wikitext?  I run across various bits of wikicode that do things I don't recognize all the time; maybe I'll look at the template source or relevant Help pages if I'm curious, but so long as it renders correctly, I generally leave it be.
 * As a bit of background, I believe that part of why Anatoli decided on the original structure of the template is that it more closely mapped to the POS headword templates previously in use, such as .  This can be turned into a working call to  simply by replacing noun with romaji, and then deleting all JA content below.  In terms of ease of use, this is extremely easy indeed; splitting this into two separate templates, one for headword and one for def lines, and worse yet requiring one template call per def line, would be significantly less easy.
 * Later on, the decision was made to forgo labeling links as "hiragana" or "katakana" and just say "See:", obviating any need for named params, so I reworked the template to use just positional params. However, I kept the named params for now as deprecated, so these still work.  Eventually we will remove the named params from all template calls, and then remove them from the template.
 * I'm operating from the working assumption that templates exist to make wikicode easier to produce and work with, faster to enter, and shorter. Requiring that a working template be split up into multiple different templates and multiple separate template calls, all for the sake of longer wikicode but identically rendered HTML, runs counter to the whole point of having templates in the first place.  But then perhaps my working assumption for why to use templates doesn't match that of other editors?  -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 17:47, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

 * KassadBot is running but it won't pick up romaji entries as badly formatted from the moment "*" was changed to "#" (on a new line). I find the template a big improvement and it's very easy to use. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 05:25, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It must have a special exception for Japanese. Otherwise, I don't know. -- Liliana • 20:49, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * To answer to your comment I need to know your motivation. Are you against limitation of the Japanese romaji entries or against the way definitions are done or both? The rationale and the technical solution was discussed for a month and agreed on by JA editors on BP. Well, templates are for doing what people would do manually otherwise. Nothing is broken. The definition line is there as per ELE, only it's generated by the template to make sure the format of romaji entries is followed. Consider this an exception if you wish. Japanese romaji have been an exception for a while. You are welcome to vote against both romaji simplification and the template in votes Dan Polansky has created. The template is now documented - Template:ja-romaji/doc. Also, see Beer_parlour/2013/April for a similar approach for Gothic. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 21:52, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * @Liliana, I suspect that KassadBot is looking at something closer to the final rendered version, perhaps after template expansion. Since the template does provide for individual def lines, each starting with a #, this would presumably pass KassadBot's inspection.  -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 22:36, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * It does pass KassadBot's inspection. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:40, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Having overlooked this deletion proposal, I have created a vote related to it: Votes/pl-2013-03/Romanization and definition line. The vote does not propose to delete ja-romaji template, but it proposes that we require each entry to have a definition line in the wikitext. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:30, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I have detagged the template. It's used in many entries now. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:35, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * RFD-passed. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 17:41, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

title: Template talk:ja-romaji


text:
Talk:akaramu

to be discussed
See Beer_parlour/2013/February. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:akaramu


text: albānī

title: albānī


text: albāņi

title: albāņi


text: albāņu

title: albāņu


text: albāņus

title: albāņus


text: albāņos

title: albāņos


text: albāņiem

title: albāņiem


text: albānim

title: albānim


text: albāņa

title: albāņa


text:
insurrección

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) insurrection; rebellion

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) insurrection; rebellion

title: insurrección


text: insurrecciones

title: insurrecciones


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Tai/C̬.nokᴰ

Alternative reconstructions

 * *nrokᴰ (Li, 1977)
 * *C.nokᴰ (Ferlus, 1990; rime from Li)
 * *manuk (Haudricourt, 1956; proposed by editor)

Etymology
Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun
(Pittayaporn, 2009)

 * 1) bird

Descendants

 * Tai
 * Northern Tai
 * Central Tai
 * Southwestern Tai
 * Central Tai
 * Southwestern Tai

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Tai/C̬.nokᴰ


text:
крепкий орешек

Noun

 * 1)  tough nut to crack challenging problem to solve

title: крепкий орешек


text:
орешек

Noun

 * : (small) nut

title: орешек


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/User talk:Etimo Advise

I don't know if you know much about Proto-Albanian reflexes from PIE, but just generally I expect you'll be a good person to assess the credibility of controversial PIE and Proto-Slavic etymologies under discussion here. Thanks!


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/User talk:Etimo Advise/reply

I'm sorry, I know nothing at all about Albanian...


text:
Thread:User talk:CodeCat/User talk:Etimo Advise/reply (2)

But in terms of the proto-langs, look at (for example) and. Are those even plausible reconstructions?


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Sino-Tibetan/pʷak

Etymology

 * Proto-Sino-Tibetan: *prwag (Coblin, 1986)
 * Proto-Tibeto-Burman: *pʷak (Matisoff, STEDT); *pwak (LaPolla, 1987; Benedict, 1972; Chou, 1972; Coblin, 1986) *pak ~ pwak (Weidert, 1987)

Noun

 * 1) pig

Descendants

 * Old Chinese:  (B-S);  (ZS) ("sow, female pig")
 * Middle Chinese:
 * Modern Mandarin
 * Beijing: (bā, )
 * Himalayish
 * Tibeto-Kanauri
 * Bodish
 * Tibetan
 * Written
 * East Bodish
 * Sal
 * Bodo-Garo
 * Tangut-Qiang
 * rGyalrongic
 * Lolo-Burmese-Naxi
 * Lolo-Burmese
 * Burmish
 * Loloish
 * Northern Loloish
 * Yi (Liangshan): ,
 * Northern
 * Lolo-Burmese-Naxi
 * Lolo-Burmese
 * Burmish
 * Loloish
 * Northern Loloish
 * Yi (Liangshan): ,
 * Northern
 * Loloish
 * Northern Loloish
 * Yi (Liangshan): ,
 * Northern
 * Northern

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Sino-Tibetan/pʷak


text:
Reconstruction talk:Proto-Sino-Tibetan/pʷak

Compare English pig, pork... Wyang (talk) 01:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

The page says that Proto-Sino-Tibetan is *prwag and that *pʷak is Proto-Tibeto-Burman, so shouldn't this page be at Appendix:Proto-Sino-Tibetan/prwag? —Angr 07:56, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

 * References which have reconstructed PST are few and not up to date (including the Coblin 1986 here). I am trying to use (Matisoff, STEDT) consistently as PST proto-forms. Although Matisoff nominally treated his database reconstructions as being at the PTB level (perhaps), he definitely relied on the Chinese comparandae when reconstructing them (for example ). Comparing Chinese with TB is quite disorderly yet; waiting for a more authoritative source to be published is probably better. Wyang (talk) 11:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC)


text:
Talk:inbetweening

Not synonymous with 'tweening'
Like I've said on the inbetween discussion page, 'tweening' refers only to CG animation, and tends to entail an automated process (whereas inbetweening is almost always manual). An animator who draws the movement by hand would never call inbetweening 'tweening'. 111.69.194.137 02:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:inbetweening


text: makes shift

title: makes shift


text: making shift

title: making shift


text: made shift

title: made shift


text:
𑄦𑄌𑄴

Etymology
Ultimately from.

Noun

 * 1) duck

title: 𑄦𑄌𑄴


text:
𑄤𑄇𑄴

Etymology
Ultimately from

Noun

 * 1) wolf

title: 𑄤𑄇𑄴


text:
User talk:Msh210

If you write me something here, I will respond here. If you specifically request a response elsewhere, I may (but may not) honor that request.

I do not archive every discussion this page. If you want a complete archive, [ see its history]. Some discussions, however, are archived.

[ Please add each new topic to the bottom, under a new header.]

ASL index
I thought you might be interested in Tom's recommendation at User talk:Positivesigner, "... assign Sign Writing pictographs for each [symbol in his sign jotting system]. The lookup would be visual enough to not even need to know English and it would be general enough to isolate a group of similar signs in a few steps. My code would not be seen except by the computer programs we use to create the slightly-inaccurate Sign Writing indicies. Once the entry is located, you can have it translated from a video to Sign Writing, PSE, and English."

I'm excited about the possibility of creating a useable index, as the current system still doesn't seem terribly easy to maintain or even to navigate. Your feedback is welcome. —Rod (A. Smith) 18:41, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Why use the current system for the index? If we're switching to ASLSJ, do so for the index, too. Or am I missing something? In any event, I think that since SignWriting (the real thing, not our version) will, I hope, be Unicode characters, we'll be switching over anyway, so any current system is temporary and need not be ideal; so we might as well leave it the way it is for now even if we do think ASLSJ is better.—msh210 ℠  18:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

 * No, I don't think a full conversion to ASLSJ (temporary or otherwise) is on the table, because it doesn't seem to solve any problems of the current transcription system. Tom's recommendation was to combine SignWriting symbols with ASLSJ just to organize (and automatically maintain) our sign language indices.  I'm sketchy on the details, but presumably the reorganized index would make it easier for a reader to find the entry for a sign of unknown meaning.  I told him to be bold with one or two of the existing Index:American Sign Language pages, so we can at least see how his vision might unfold.

 * Browsing around the Internet, I cannot find any new information on the integration of SignWriting into Unicode. The layout issues seem so much more complex than Unicode combining characters can accomodate, so I suspect it will be several years, at least.  —Rod (A. Smith) 20:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I have a working solution for encoding Binary SignWriting to Unicode. Binary SignWriting uses sequential 16 bit codes to represent the spatial information needed for SignWriting.  You can read about the plane 4 solution. You can view the Hello world. page.  You can view the  BSW JavaScript library (see function char2unicode).  I'm currently rewriting the SignWriting Image Server to use Binary SignWriting rather than comma delimited data.  It should be ready next week. -Steve 12:49, 08 May 2009 (UTC)
 * SignWriting Image Server beta 5 has been released to view and download. Section 3 has the Binary SignWriting definition with ABNF for data and Regular Expressions for tokens. -Steve 19:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I am wondering how many places need updated when I add a new entry to the ASL terms on Wiktionary. It seems the term ASE-RED (insert super-long entry title here) was automatically added to and has links at the bottom of the page to Category:American_Sign_Language_adjectives and Category:ase:Colors.  But it had to be manually added to American Sign Language gloss term RED and American Sign Language index 1-handshape.
 * I apologize that I do not understand the Wikipedia-style templates very well. Do you know if there is a way to have these extra places automatically updated to include new entries?
 * , I imagine that that should be doable by a bot, but I can't do it myself. Perhaps someone can help at [[WT:GP]]. —msh210℠ 00:26, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Spelling the unspelled
You mentioned that someone who doesn't know how to correctly title a page may put it under the "sign gloss" namespace. I feel that I could create a title for a sign-word page. But that does not necessarily make my title "correct." Is it first come, first serve? If someone feels it doesn't match the existing pattern, does that make it wrong? If I feel the pattern is wrong, how would I get a change approved?

I currently don't see how the phoneme / hold-move structures are helping to accomplish the overall goal of being able to "lookup the correct spelling or meaning" of a sign-word in a two-dimensional medium. Indeed, the goal of an orthography is to ease the flow of thought from mind to paper and paper to mind. Does the entry "A@InsideShoulderhigh-PalmBack-FlatB@NearCenterChesthigh-PalmDown Frontandback" help anyone to do that? If a new signer sees a person speaking in ASL, is there any chance they could "sound out" the spelling to find the meaning if they don't understand about the spacial aspect of ASL grammar?

My biggest problem is that I don't know anyone to talk to about some different ideas I have for these issues, or to whom I can express my concerns. I was e-mailing Rodasmith regularly at the end of 2009, but he told me that he had some better things to do. So that's why I'm writing to you here. Thank you for your patience. - Positivesigner 03:06, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Regarding your first point, we need canonical page titles. There's some discussion about this at [[User talk:Rodasmith]]: what directions can be assumed and not included in titles. If we're keeping our current page-title system, this should be codified.

 * By the way, as discussed in the past somewhere, if and when SignWriting is included in Unicode, all the entries should be moved to SignWriting titles.

 * You're 100% right that it's very hard to find an entry by looking it up directly; as you know better than I, [[Index:American Sign Language]] is meant to ease looking up entries. Note incidentally that the difficulty of looking up a word one hears is not limited to sign languages; a Soundex-like search mechanism would be a wonderful addition to this site.

 * No one to talk with is a function of there being no ASL (or other SL) editors. If you have a specific idea you want implemented, I suggest you raise it at [[Wiktionary talk:About sign languages]] and point to it with a heads-up at the talkpages of the various SL editors (Rodasmith, Di gama, ECUgrad96, Neskaya, me, perhaps others); even absent editors might have an e-mailed notification in place for edits to their talkpages. Seeing support there, implement it; or, seeing no opposition, bring it to the Beer parlour. I think that'd usually be a good way to do it. If what you have is not a specific idea to be implemented but a concern to be discussed, then, again, bring it to [[Wiktionary talk:About sign languages]] with links from editors' talkpages. I don't know what else to tell you, I'm afraid; there just isn't much of a community of SL editors here (to put it mildly). —msh210℠ 08:07, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Or just being it straight to the BP, bypassing the SL talkpage, perhaps. Few people will care, and it will clutter up an already cluttered BP, but at least more people will notice it. —msh210℠ 16:12, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Maths words
Hi there. I see you are a mathematician. There are lots of difficult maths words in Category:Citations of undefined terms -     (autoconvolution:, biorthonormal:, coinvariant: and so on). It would be good if you could shed some light on any of them. Cheers. SemperBlotto (talk) 08:19, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There are also a few mathematical terms to be found at User:Metaknowledge/Todo, like position vector and θ-intercept, although I daresay I could define those (but not without fear of having forgotten my geometry and thus of making a definitional error). —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 04:51, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I know of an SOP meaning, and of no non-SOP meaning, of position vector; same for θ-intercept. I can look at the two lists mentioned; thanks for the links. Any way the math terms from the undefined-but-cited list can be listed separately? (Not sure how that can be done: is there some criterion that marks them, like a citation from the arXiv or a particular editor?) —msh210℠ 06:24, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, we do have x-intercept:, you can RFD it if you like. Similarly, "position vector" is about as SOP as unit vector:, IMO. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:26, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, x-intercept is IMO SOP also. As for unit vector, that's a vector with unit length, not at all clear IMO from the parts; position vector OTOH is a vector that signifies/marks a position. —msh210℠ 07:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What, will they get it confused with all those vectors floating around with a direction of 1? What else could it be? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 07:21, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If someone started talking to me about a "2 vector", I'd have no idea what he meant, and would have to guess it were a vector all of whose components were 2. —msh210℠ 07:26, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for going through my list! (octachoron too?) —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 07:04, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm…. I see various online sources and just two bgc books are defining it as a hypercube in four dimensions, and I see no other definition for it, but I'm not sure it's attested. But if it means anything, then I suppose it means that . —msh210℠  07:10, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

n-gon: too, if you please. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 19:46, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's SOP: see -gon. —msh210℠ 00:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But compare [[talk:n-tuple]] and [[talk:n-dimensional]]. —msh210℠ 02:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

 * You wouldn't happen to be able to define "pseudocodeword", would you? - -sche (discuss) 08:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid not. It seems to be used in the mathematical theory of error detection/correction, and to be defined in terms of some sort of graph (in the graph-theory sense, not like the graph of a function from analytic geometry) — but that's about all I can say. (It's also sometimes spelled pseudo-codeword, unsurprisingly, and I didn't check which is more common, or was at various times.) —msh210℠ 18:30, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

template grepping
see also -- Jeremyb (talk) 06:20, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/43652#c7
 * http://lxml.de/tutorial.html#event-driven-parsing
 * Many thanks. —msh210℠ 18:33, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

nitpa'el
I've read a few actual adult books in Hebrew now (as opposed to just newspaper articles and whatnot), and I've found that a number of things I'd thought were archaic, because I only knew them from the liturgy, do actually occur in formal-but-not-archaizing Modern writing. For example, you asked about nitpa'el once, and I recently came across a real example, on page 173 of Memories After My Death, 's first-person biography of his father. After mentioning that Abba Eben was going to a secret meeting in Argentina, he explains why; he states that relations between Israel and Argentina were tense at the time, due to the abduction of, and writes:

 * אבן, שכיהן כסגן ראש הממשלה, נתבקש לגייס את יוקרתו הבינלאומית הידועה כדי לפתור את המשבר.

I do still think it must be pretty rare, though, firstly because I think this is the only Modern example I've come across, and secondly because after you brought up nitpa'el, I asked my father about it, giving some forms listed in my dictionaries, and he said that he would only understand those forms as 1p future, never as 3ms past. (I'm sure that he actually would have understood them in context, but he didn't recognize them on their own.)

—Ruakh TALK 07:56, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. I don't think this changes AHE policy at all, though; do you? —msh210℠ 15:52, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked; I'll take your word for it. The purpose of my comment here was merely to correct something that I think I once told you and that I now think was mistaken. (Oh, and to provide a possible quotation, if one would be useful.) If this correction results in an en.wikt policy improvement, then great; if no such improvement is needed, also great. —Ruakh TALK 07:58, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Incidentally, while I have your ear eye : FYI, I've just RFVed a sense you added. —msh210℠ 15:57, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Just thought I should mention that I recently accidentally came across an article titled “Developments in the Hebrew verbal system of Israeli children and youth” by Aaron Bar-Adon (1978) and it had this to say about nitpa'el:
 * nitpaˀel (nitCaCeC) is rare in younger Hebrew, although it is in frequent use in formal Hebrew, and to some extent also in the informal speech of adults. Sometimes one has the impression that the speaers conceive of nitpaˀel (which was originally a variant of hitpaˀel, under the impact of Aramaic, since the time of Mishnaic Hebrew) as a ‘combination’ of nifˀal and hitpaˀel, as if to enhance the passivity of hitpaˀel (which, as mentioned above, is now taken to be mainly a reflexive and reciprocal binyan, while originally it did have the passive meaning!). Thus, in hitka(b)bed ‘he honored himself; he had the honor; he was honored’, some speakers perceive more the first one or two meanings, while in nitka(b)bed they will perceive more exclusively the last connotation, ‘he was honored’, in the passive. At any rate, nitpaˀel has so far been rare in younger Hebrew. One would expect some productivity in that area too.
 * --WikiTiki89 17:34, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting; thanks. AHE says we treat it as a separate entry if its meaning differs from the hitpael. Apparently, that's most often true — at least according to Bar-Adon. —msh210℠ 22:54, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you can say that the meaning "differs", they just have different connotations. I think the definitions in the entry for, based on Bar-Adon's definitions should look like this:
 * he honored himself
 * he had the honor
 * he was honored
 * Splitting the definitions onto separate pages will make it harder to convey this information. --WikiTiki89 06:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Hebrew transliteration
Hi,

I realise Hebrew can't be transliterated 100%, even with vowel marks but which one is incorrect - Module:he-translit or WT:HE TR? Maybe one or the other should be fixed or both? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 06:25, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you point out where you see a problem? --WikiTiki89 20:12, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of the problem. I'm referring to the maintenance notice on the module. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 20:22, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing is "incorrect". The module simply cannot transliterate words that have ambiguous letters or vowels, or lack vowels entirely. The consensus thing is less of a problem, since even though there is no consensus, there is a current common practice. --WikiTiki89 21:05, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * OK. So, you agree with the wording of the maintenance notice? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 21:45, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I personally don't, but I don't care about it that much, as long as the module is not used until it can somehow be fixed (such as by using separate Unicode characters for the two qamatses). --WikiTiki89 21:50, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * WT:HE TR, even ignoring the 'scholarly' column, is not followed: consensus I think is to transliterate פ as f, which it doesn't seem to indicate, and I don't think anyone transliterates ח as kh. (And there may be more errors, also. Those two jumped out at me.) Module:he-translit copies the latter of those two errors and introduces its own: (a/o) for kamats, which is (pretty much) never ambiguous but always either a or o, and h for ה even word-finally. (And, again, there may be more errors, also. Those two jumped out at me.) —msh210℠ 04:39, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The פ error at WT:HE TR was my fault from when I added the scholarly column to the table; I just fixed it now (the scholarly transliteration is actually used in some etymology sections). But "kh" is used for ח quite frequently. I don't think that the "(a/o)" thing implies that any individual kamats is ambiguous, but that a script cannot possibly distinguish them without knowing the morphology of the word; I don't think that "(a/o)" was actually intended to be used as a transliteration, but as an indication that the transliteration is not known by the script. Omitting word-final ה was probably just an oversight in the script and not intended to be a change to the transliteration system. To me, all this is an indication that the Hebrew cannot as of yet be automatically transliterated, and not that the module is flawed. --WikiTiki89 06:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ping. Fair enough. But the distinction in your last sentence is one without a difference: if Hebrew can't be machine-transliterated, then any script that attempts to do so is automatically flawed. —msh210℠ 03:42, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ping. Oh, and another error in the module is that it doesn't mark stress. —msh210℠ 05:44, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Stress and kamatz (a/o) are not errors, it's simply not known for sure. Cyrillic based languages, BTW, use acute accent to mark stress, in Arabic, marking stress has been abandoned, as it is predictable or may differ substantially in dialects and depends on whether ḥarakāt are pronounced (very formal or Qur'anic Arabic) or not. The purpose of this and similar modules would be to transliterate as close as possible and match WT:HE TR to the maximum, in cases when people are not familiar with the script and no manual transliteration is provided. Any omissions were not intentional. I prefer "kh" for ח, as "ch" is misleading and it seems that "kh" is used quite often here and elsewhere. Any missing characters should be added to the module and for (a/o) we could use a default "a", a more common reading, which could be manually replaced with "o", same with other ambiguous cases. Please consider creating "" (with a disclaimer). If we have an approximate pronunciation tool, it would be easier to find the correct one. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 06:35, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Unlike in Arabic, in Hebrew stress is phonemic. Usually it can be determined from the vowels, but not always; consider the minimal pair vs . And stress of borrowed words is all over the place in Modern Hebrew. --WikiTiki89 18:39, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I understand this. Stress is another thing that has to be done manually. Still, "banu" (without a stress indication is better than no transliteration at all, don't you think? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:28, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, but "b(a/o)nu" is not. --WikiTiki89 22:34, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I tried to explain the usefulness of such a (automated) transliteration method below. I'm not suggesting to use it in the main space. However, if one sees "b(a/o)nu", a person (like me) may search for "banu", "bonu" and find the right transliteration. Especially if one knows that most likely it's "banu", not "bonu". I have transliterated a number of Hebrew words that way in the past - found basic letters, then searched and edited (can't remember the exact words). User:ZxxZxxZ seems to agree with this or has a similar opinion. I can now transliterate with some level of certainty - "biyomet'riyah" (?) (do you think it's better than nothing?). Finding forms with all vowels always helps (I found  on Hebrew Wiktionary). I'm not actively working with Hebrew and not learning it but I don't like so many words having no transliteration. Does it make sense? I know some people will say - don't touch Hebrew entries, if you don't speak it. I don't hold such views for editing in any language - mistakes do happen, someone may correct them. If an editor makes a lot of mistakes, he/she should stay away and learn. I'm very thorough with languages I don't know or don't know well and I welcome any corrections - everything I edit is on my watchlist (huge). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:11, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * One counterpoint is that it is much easier to find and fix entries that don't have transliterations than it is to find and fix entries with incorrect transliterations. But I agree that you don't have to know a language to do basic editing in it. Just to point out one mistake I've seen you make: words in the construct state almost always have internal vowel changes (unlike Arabic where only in rare cases the last vowel changes, ignoring the loss of nunation), for example > . So be careful when transliterating or adding vowels to compound words. --WikiTiki89 23:27, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes, that's a valid point. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:14, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Re "I'm not suggesting to use it in the main space": where, then? By the way, a kamats is always a except before a dagesh or sh'va or maqaf or mater lectionis + maqaf or word-final unvowelized non-mater: only before one of those is it ambiguous. I assume Lua can capture that? In any event, I think a transliteration with "(a/o)" is awful in any public-facing (i.e. content) namespace. —msh210℠ 06:54, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think there are more exceptions, and it would be impractical to take them all into account. For example שָׁרָשִׁים is an alternative of שֳׁרָשִׁים (also, can you give an example of "mater lectionis + maqaf"; I'm not sure what you mean). --WikiTiki89 07:19, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the first kamats in שָׁרָשִׁים is disputed a/o (and, funnily enough, this might be the one reasonable use of "(a/o)" in a translit ), but I take your point. Re mater lectionis + maqaf, see e.g. בראשית ל א, havo-li. —msh210℠  07:34, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I always thought that הָבָה־לִּי is háva-li, with the doubling of the ל being similar to the doubling of the מ in . --WikiTiki89 16:09, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's what I mean. Current entry @ doesn't provide transliteration or vowelisation. By using the translit module I can see it's something like "biyomet'riy(a/o)h". It's obviously "biyomet'riyah", at which one can arrive using a translit module. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 06:53, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually it's biyométriya (sh'va nakh after the tet, no mapik in the hei). —Ruakh TALK 05:28, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

 and "modern speech"
This is an improvement for words starting with bet, kaf, or pei, but I'm not sure it works for words starting with gimel, dalet, or tav.

(I guess that problem was already there in the subsequent sentence, but I either didn't notice or didn't remember it till now.)

Should we have two separate templates? Or maybe the template should take the actual first letter as an argument, and do some intelligent stuff accordingly?

—Ruakh TALK 04:55, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Re your first paragraph: Oh. Oops. Right. Thanks for catching that. But the truth is that I think was in error and the "modern texts" was correct the first time, since such modern texts as include vowels (kids' books and liturgy and maybe poetry(?)) follows that rule. I'm rolling back. But feel free to disagree and to unrollback. But you're right, certainly, that the remaining instance of "modern speech" is misrepresentative of modern pronunciation for three of the consonants. Re your last: I like your second idea better. It can default IMO to   (if   is parsed before  ). —msh210℠  05:29, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ping. —msh210℠ 05:16, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Re: "if  is parsed before  ": I imagine that the parsing proper happens in a single pass, and the evaluation/expansion mostly seems to follow a sort of call-by-name strategy that makes it hard to say what happens "before" what, but yes:  0  evaluates to the first character of the page-name. —Ruakh TALK 06:11, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Is it all right with you if I put that logic in a module? It's unwieldy to make a lot of references to  .
 * Certainly (in answer to your question). —msh210℠ 06:23, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Math terms
Hi! Do you know how to define any of the various math terms in Category:Requests for definitions in English entries, like semiabelian, semicalibrated, semicanonical etc, quasibialgebra etc, or subriemannian etc? (In some cases it seems like "Partially ___" or "Having some of the characteristics of being ___" seems like it might cover it.) - -sche (discuss) 23:25, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I hope to check out that list when I have a chance. For now, just a note about semiabelian. It doesn't merely mean "somewhat abelian" in any which way: rather, there's a specific sense in which the object so described is somewhat abelian. —msh210℠ 05:24, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

going on
Can you point me to the discussion that led to | this edit (12:35, 1 February 2010.)? Brett (talk) 02:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC) ːNevermind, I've tracked it down. Sorry to bother youǃ--Brett (talk) 14:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * In case anyone else is reading this and wondering, it's Tea room/2010/January. —msh210℠ 18:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Seeking advice on changes to RQ:Tanach
Hi! I'm looking to make a few changes to Template:RQ:Tanach to add support for passage and translation parameters and I wanted to solicit your feedback as the original creator before inadvertently making any controversial changes. In short, I'd like to: Do you have a preference for format option 1 or 2? Should the template (and the book name, if used) be "Tanach" or "Tanakh"? Thanks! JeffDoozan (talk) 15:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 * rename t to tsrc so that t can be used for the translation text and not the translation source. (I have a bot that can do this easily)
 * convert the template to use Module:quote for formatting and param handling
 * This will have a minor effect on this display so that
 * which currently displays as:
 * using Module:quote would display as:
 * (note the, between Genesis and 2:3-4, this format is shared by Template:RQ:Quran)
 * or
 * (using the book name, we can remove the, between Genesis and 2:3-4, this format is used by Template:RQ:KJV)
 * There's a comment at Template_talk:RQ:Tanach that suggests renaming the template from "Tanach" to "Tanakh" - if this is something that would be of value, I could make this change at the same time the bot renames t= to tsrc=.
 * (using the book name, we can remove the, between Genesis and 2:3-4, this format is used by Template:RQ:KJV)
 * There's a comment at Template_talk:RQ:Tanach that suggests renaming the template from "Tanach" to "Tanakh" - if this is something that would be of value, I could make this change at the same time the bot renames t= to tsrc=.
 * I'm much less active here than I used to be, and my reply to you (a) is based on what you wrote here (I have no other knowledge of the module in question, for example), and (b) should be taken as the opinion of such a person (i.e., don't put too much weight on it).
 * I prefer Tanakh if there must be a comma: a comma after the Bible book name looks terrible. Better still would be no comma and no Tanakh: can the module be modified to make the comma optional? Or of course don't switch to using the module: not only the simplest solution, it also doesn't ruin the formatting or require a module edit so is the best solution.
 * Personally I use the spelling Tanach but Tanakh is I think much more common especially in academic circles, so if one or the other has to display then it should be Tanakh. The template can be named whatever and have a redirect from the other so people can use either. —msh210℠ 21:11, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Idk what this is.
Are you sure this is a word? It's just a few conversations and not books? Citations:rereconsider Heyandwhoa (talk) 23:06, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Nah. If I were sure it's a word, I'd probably make an entry. It's a citations page, which AFAIK has a much lower bar for inclusion. —msh210℠ 06:48, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Msh210


text:
User:Haplology

Aphorism 51 of We Philologists by Nietsche: "When we examine the history of philology it is borne in upon us how few really talented men have taken part in it. Among the most celebrated philologists are a few who ruined their intellect by acquiring a smattering of many subjects, and among the most enlightened of them were several who could use their intellect only for childish tasks. It is a sad story · no science, I think, has ever been so poor in talented followers. Those whom we might call the intellectually crippled found a suitable hobby in all this hair-splitting."

The forgotten ones
Certain templates, headers, etc. haven't seen much attention lately, which is not to say that there is anything wrong with them.
 * Category:Japanese terms with homophones -- 47?
 * ====Reciprocal====
 * (lately some attention)
 * Category:Japanese words with nonphonetic spellings
 * Category:Japanese words with multiple readings - 2?
 * Category:Japanese collective nouns
 * Category:Japanese verb passive forms which is not included in Category:Japanese verb forms
 * 起こる
 * unique ruby: 雨降って地固まる
 * nice table:

Japanese frequency lists
I've put together some pages with word frequencies and kanji frequencies. I made them using the Japanese Wikipedia, so it may not accurately reflect all registers. In particular, the main frequency list has a heavy focus on history.

Japanese lemmas

 * First 2000 adverbs
 * Verbs

Kanji

 * Kanji

Inflected forms

 * Hiragana

Wants attention

 * Category:Japanese terms needing attention
 * Category:Japanese translations lacking transliteration
 * D
 * Category:Requests_(Japanese)
 * Category:Japanese terms using the kanji param
 * Category:Japanese terms with romaji needing attention
 * Category:Japanese kanji reading categories without reading type
 * Category:Japanese terms uncategorized by reading pattern
 * []
 * Category:term cleanup/Kana
 * Category:Japanese terms with deprecated headword template formatting
 * Category:Japanese romaji without a main entry
 * Category:Japanese definitions needed

title: User:Haplology


text:
User:Apisite/Chakma Swadesh list

Reasons and Updates
If you really want to learn about the appearance of the Chakma script, here's the Omniglot entry if necessary (just don't forget to try out the nice virtual keyboard and fonts). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 10:00, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

For Hangeul/Hanja fans: 차크마어자모 / 창마어자모 --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 10:29, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

For those readers who wish to seek a colorful example, have this juicy sample. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:16, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

 * is my simple Lua code suggestion. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 06:29, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Example Sentences

 * 1)  - Bengali script: মুই তরে কোচ পাঙ।
 * 2)  - Bengali script:
 * 3)  (tye pādāghān peẏe) - "S/he got the leaf."
 * 4)  (āmi egottare kām gori) - "We work together."
 * 5)  (tumi amagada dol) - "You are very beautiful."
 * 6)  (tār-hā bhāt khādan) - "They are eating rice"
 * 7)  (ibe ikko ba-i) - "This is a book."
 * 8)  (ubo ikko kalam) - "That is a pen."
 * 9)  (idu āẏ) - "Come here"
 * 10)  (sidu yā) - "Go there"
 * 11)  (ye milebo gelle kelle ecche sibhe mar bon) - "The girl who came yesterday is my sister."
 * 12)  (ta nāṅ-ān ki) - "What is your name?"
 * 13)  (tui hudu tāc) - "Where do you live?"
 * 14)  (tui kamale āmā idu ebe) - "When will you come here?"
 * 15)  (tārā iẏān kene garilāk) - "How have they done it?"
 * 16)  (idu tui dhumo na ṭānic) - "Don't smoke here."
 * 17)  (mui bek bhāttun khem) - "I will eat all rice"
 * 18)  (mattun phecbukot bālukkun samār āgan) - "I've many friends on Facebook."
 * 19)  (tar kibot kinibette gulokadak ṭeṅā āgan) - "You have some money for buying a keyboard."
 * 20)  (mattun dibegari ṭeṅā āghan) - "I've very few money."
 * 21)  (āmi nānā bābotte dejottun bal per) - "We are benefited for many other countries."
 * 22)  (ek ek jan gari ejha) - "Come on one by one."
 * 23)  (dibe pek āghājat uradan) - "Two birds are flying on the sky."
 * 24)  (tine ā duẏe pāc aẏ) - "Three and two makes five."
 * 25)  (garuttun cerān ṭheng āge) - "The cow is four footed."
 * 26)  (pāc ḍalār macte ekgodel) - "Five dollars is enough for me."
 * 27)  (tār ikko bar kugur āge) - "She has a big dog."
 * 28)  (mui bāluttur lāmbā padat hādiluṃ) - "I walk a long way road."
 * 29)  (pattān bhāri melāk) - "The road is wide."
 * 30)  (tār culān amakada dāda) - "His hair is very thick."
 * 31)  (ikkunu bhāri jhar parer) - "It’s raining heavy now."
 * 32)  (tār ikko cihgon togalā āghe) - "She has a small bag."
 * 33)  (tye amakada bahdi) - "He is very short."
 * 34)  (tye chigon manar mānuc) - "He is narrow minded."
 * 35)  (kāgac-hān amakada pādal) - "The paper is very thin."
 * 36)  (milebo bhāri horhocche) - "The woman is very simple."
 * 37)  (gābucjya maratto bhāri kām gari pāre) - "The man is a very hard worker."
 * 38)  (mānuc amar naẏ) - "Man is mortal."
 * 39)  (cigongurobho eja hādi na jāne) - "The child cannot walk."
 * 40)  (te mar mok) - "She is my wife."
 * 41)  (te mar nek) - "He is my husband."
 * 42)  (mar māh mare amakada koc pāi) - "My mother loves me very much."
 * 43)  (ma bābar nāṅ Murati Lāl Chākmā) - "My father's name is Murati Lal Chakma."
 * 44)  (moc ceir ṭheṃgye emān) - "The buffalo is a four-footed animal."
 * 45)  (māc uri na pāran) - "Fish cannot fly."
 * 46)  (ikko pek āghājat ure) - "A bird flies in the sky."
 * 47)  (kurur kadhā koi na pāran) - "Dog cannot speak."
 * 48)  (tui ugun samparke kattām kabar pāc) - "How much do you know about the louse?"
 * 49)  (tui ki ton iyebhe sāp hāc) - "Do you eat snake as a curry?"
 * 50)  (tonāni um um gari tha) - "Keep the food in worm."
 * 51)  (mui gāc gam pāṅ) - "I like trees."

title: User:Apisite/Chakma Swadesh list


text: Citations:scattergun

title: Citations:scattergun


text: goodtime Charlie

title: goodtime Charlie


text: good time Charlie

title: good time Charlie


text: good-time Charley

title: good-time Charley


text: goodtime Charley

title: goodtime Charley


text: good time Charley

title: good time Charley


text:
User:Johnuniq

I'm often available at w:en:User talk:Johnuniq.

title: User:Johnuniq


text:
приостановка

Noun

 * 1) suspension, interruption, delay, letup temporary or conditional delay, interruption or discontinuation

title: приостановка


text:
разбирательство

Noun

 * 1) hearing, examination, investigation proceeding at which discussions are heard

title: разбирательство


text: 听证会

title: 听证会


text:
聽證會

Noun

 * 1)  hearing

Usage notes

 * tends to be used more for formal court hearings, while tends to be used more for administrative or quasi-legal hearings.

title: 聽證會


text:
ежедневно

Adverb

 * 1) daily every day

title: ежедневно


text:
ежечасно

Adverb

 * 1) hourly at intervals of an hour

title: ежечасно


text:
еженедельно

Adverb

 * 1) weekly every week

title: еженедельно


text:
ежеминутно

Adverb

 * 1) (happening) every minute at intervals of a minute

title: ежеминутно


text:
User talk:Apisite/Chakma Swadesh list

First of all, could you please document your sources? Also, could you please record the transliteration system you are using so that any future contributors to Chakma can follow it? Thank you! —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:28, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm using a slightly modified version of Omniglot's transliteration of the Chakma script. A FaceBook friend provided me the words (along with a few pictures or things at http://hilledu.com/). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 07:25, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

title: User talk:Apisite/Chakma Swadesh list


text:
-wan

Etymology
From, from , from.

Final

 * be, become

Suffix

 * Kay khuchita waskawan watachkani.
 * I am tying this pig with a rope.
 * Qamwan llaqtata risaq.
 * I will go to town with you.
 * Qamwan llaqtata risaq.
 * I will go to town with you.

title: -wan


text:
втроём

Adverb

 * 1) three (together)

title: втроём


text:
тройной

Adjective

 * 1) triple, threefold, treble

title: тройной


text:
ничей

Pronoun

 * 1) nobody's belonging to nobody (possessive form of nobody)

title: ничей


text:
getting used to

Noun

 * 1) Acclimation, adjustment.
 * The new arrangement will take some getting used to, but I think it'll turn out to be a good thing.

Usage notes

 * Most often used with the verb and the determiner.

Translations

 * Chinese:
 * Mandarin: ,
 * Japanese:
 * Portuguese: acostumar-se
 * Russian:
 * Swedish: vänja sig vid

title: getting used to


text:
чей-то

Pronoun

 * 1) someone's belonging to someone

title: чей-то


text:
גרוני

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) guttural, throaty

title: גרוני


text:
insatisfecho

Etymology
From. Compare 🇨🇬.

Adjective

 * 1) unsatisfied; dissatisfied

title: insatisfecho


text: insatisfecha

title: insatisfecha


text: insatisfechos

title: insatisfechos


text: insatisfechas

title: insatisfechas


text:
-paq

Suffix

 * Qampaqmi kay wasi.
 * This house is for you.
 * This house is for you.

title: -paq


text:
ничья

Etymology 1
From.

Noun

 * 1)  draw, tie result of a game

title: ничья


text:
розыгрыш

Noun

 * 1) draw procedure by which the result of a lottery is determined
 * 2) prank, practical joke, hoax

title: розыгрыш


text:
жеребьёвка

Etymology
Cognate with.

Noun

 * 1) draw, drawing, sortition procedure by which the result of a lottery is determined
 * 2) toss-up, toss

title: жеребьёвка


text:
swiftie

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)   Someone or something that moves, acts or thinks fast.
 * 2)  An alcoholic drink that is consumed quickly.
 * 3)  A fraud or trick; an act of deception.
 * 1)  An alcoholic drink that is consumed quickly.
 * 2)  A fraud or trick; an act of deception.
 * 1)  An alcoholic drink that is consumed quickly.
 * 2)  A fraud or trick; an act of deception.
 * 1)  A fraud or trick; an act of deception.
 * 1)  A fraud or trick; an act of deception.
 * 1)  A fraud or trick; an act of deception.

title: swiftie


text: swifties

title: swifties


text: αναδείχνω

title: αναδείχνω


text:
Template:he-conj-pi'el/ל׳ גרונית

Example word

title: Template:he-conj-pi'el/ל׳ גרונית


text:
קינח

Verb

 * 1) to wipe dry
 * 2) to eat dessert

title: קינח


text: Category:ay:Countries

title: Category:ay:Countries


text: 䙴

title: 䙴


text: Category:Chakma script

title: Category:Chakma script


text:
French grey

Noun

 * 1) A pale dove grey.

title: French grey


text:
Kermesit

Noun

 * 1)  kermesite

title: Kermesit


text:
𨊴

Han character

 * 1) (variant of 軙) Chinese surname
 * 2) to arrange
 * 3) to display wheel

title: 𨊴


text:
Kesselwagen

Noun

 * 1)  tank car

title: Kesselwagen


text:
Kinase

Noun

 * 1)  kinase

title: Kinase


text: Koenzymen

title: Koenzymen


text:
Kometenschweif

Noun

 * 1) tail of a comet

title: Kometenschweif


text: Kometenschweifen

title: Kometenschweifen


text: Komplexen

title: Komplexen


text:
French fits

Noun

 * 1)  Delirium tremens.

title: French fits


text:
дорожный фугас

Noun

 * 1) roadside bomb explosive device

title: дорожный фугас


text:
управляемый фугас

Noun

 * 1) roadside bomb explosive device

title: управляемый фугас


text: Category:Chakma script languages

title: Category:Chakma script languages


text:
chargieren

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1)  to overact
 * 2)  to feed, to load
 * 1)  to feed, to load

title: chargieren


text: తీరం

title: తీరం


text:
తీర్ణము

Adjective

 * 1) crossed
 * 2) surpassed

title: తీర్ణము


text:
ఉత్తీర్ణము

Adjective

 * 1) crossed, passed over; rescued, delivered.

title: ఉత్తీర్ణము


text:
ఉత్తీర్ణుడు

Noun

 * 1) one who has passed the examinations.

title: ఉత్తీర్ణుడు


text: ఉత్తీర్ణుఁడు

title: ఉత్తీర్ణుఁడు


text:
купальный халат

Noun

 * 1) bathrobe terrycloth robe

title: купальный халат


text:
𑄝𑄬𑄋𑄴

Etymology
Cognate to 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬 /, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) frog

title: 𑄝𑄬𑄋𑄴


text: sjåande

title: sjåande


text:
sjåast

Verb

 * 1) to see each other, meet

title: sjåast


text:
សាមគ្គី

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) unity, solidarity
 * 2) cooperation, team work
 * 3) affection

Verb

 * 1) to unite

title: សាមគ្គី


text: ఈఁగ

title: ఈఁగ


text:
Thread:User talk:Yair rand/Comment gadget

I think you created the current version of TargetedTranslations.js.

I was wishing for another, similar script, that would add a comment to a talk page, as we are still waiting for LiquidThreads to become universally useful. The background is that editing a whole section of a talk page is difficult on a smart phone browser, while the TargetedTranslations, as used on Wiktionary, works perfectly on a small screen.

What I want is a link that opens a small editing window, receives text, and then adds the appropriate number of colons to the beginning of each line, adds --~ at the end, and appends the result to the end of the current section on a talk page or village pump. It would look similar to LiquidThreads, but could be used on any talk page. Do you know if anything such exists, or could you write it?


text: Category:lv:Norway

title: Category:lv:Norway


text: Norvēģijā

title: Norvēģijā


text: Norvēģijai

title: Norvēģijai


text: Norvēģijas

title: Norvēģijas


text: Norvēģiju

title: Norvēģiju


text:
Norvēģijas Karaliste

Proper noun

 * 1) Kingdom of Norway official name of Norway

title: Norvēģijas Karaliste


text:
löngun

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) desire
 * 2) yearning, longing

title: löngun


text: Norvēģijas Karalistē

title: Norvēģijas Karalistē


text: Norvēģijas Karalisti

title: Norvēģijas Karalisti


text: Norvēģijas Karalistei

title: Norvēģijas Karalistei


text: Norvēģijas Karalistes

title: Norvēģijas Karalistes


text:
norvēģu valoda

Noun

 * 1) Norwegian language (lit. language of the Norwegians)

title: norvēģu valoda


text:
nautn

Noun

 * 1) pleasure, enjoyment

title: nautn


text:
norvēģisks

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Norwegian relating to the Norwegian language; relating to Norwegians or to Norway

Usage notes
English “Norwegian” as an attributive adjective usually corresponds in Latvian to, the genitive plural form of. The adjective is commonly used as a predicate (“this is Norwegian”), or in its adverbial form.

title: norvēģisks


text: szófukarabb

title: szófukarabb


text: legszófukarabb

title: legszófukarabb


text:
norvēģis

Etymology
Apparently borrowed from.

Noun

 * 1) a (male) Norwegian, a man from Norway
 * 2)  Norwegian, pertaining to Norway and its people
 * 1)  Norwegian, pertaining to Norway and its people

title: norvēģis


text:
మక్షిక

Noun

 * 1) A fly.

title: మక్షిక


text:
floorwards

Adverb

 * 1) Towards the floor.

title: floorwards


text:
floorward

Adverb

 * 1) Toward the floor.

title: floorward


text:
馬蛭

Noun

 * 1) horse-leech, a large leech

title: 馬蛭


text: 马蛭

title: 马蛭


text:
దంశము

Noun

 * 1) a fly, a gadfly
 * 2) a piece of armour

title: దంశము


text: hitteberoertes

title: hitteberoertes


text:
norvēģiete

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) a (female) Norwegian, a Norwegian woman, a woman from Norway

title: norvēģiete


text:
말거머리

Etymology
From 🇰🇲. Compare Chinese.

Noun

 * 1) horse-leech

title: 말거머리


text: norvēģieti

title: norvēģieti


text: norvēģietē

title: norvēģietē


text:
đỉa trâu

Noun

 * 1)  horse-leech
 * 1)  horse-leech

title: đỉa trâu


text: norvēģietei

title: norvēģietei


text:
Komproportionierung

Noun

 * 1)  comproportionation

title: Komproportionierung


text: norvēģietes

title: norvēģietes


text: norvēģietēs

title: norvēģietēs


text:
Konformation

Noun

 * 1)  conformation

title: Konformation


text:
Konformationsisomer

Noun

 * 1)  conformational isomer

title: Konformationsisomer


text: norvēģiešu

title: norvēģiešu


text: norvēģietēm

title: norvēģietēm


text:
Konformationsisomerie

Noun

 * 1)  conformational isomerism

title: Konformationsisomerie


text: norvēģa

title: norvēģa


text:
Kontaktverfahren

Noun

 * 1)  contact process

title: Kontaktverfahren


text: norvēģi

title: norvēģi


text: norvēģī

title: norvēģī


text: norvēģim

title: norvēģim


text: norvēģus

title: norvēģus


text: norvēģos

title: norvēģos


text: norvēģu

title: norvēģu


text: norvēģiem

title: norvēģiem


text:
contact process

Noun

 * 1)  The industrial process for the manufacture of sulfuric acid from sulfur and oxygen

Translations

 * German: Kontaktverfahren
 * Romanian: proces de contact

title: contact process


text: norvēģu valodā

title: norvēģu valodā


text: norvēģu valodu

title: norvēģu valodu


text: norvēģu valodai

title: norvēģu valodai


text: norvēģu valodas

title: norvēģu valodas


text:
కళిక

Noun

 * 1) A flame.

title: కళిక


text:
korrosionsfördernd

Adjective

 * 1) corrosive (promoting corrosion)

title: korrosionsfördernd


text:
Kristallfläche

Noun

 * 1) facet (face of a crystal)

title: Kristallfläche


text:
jaunnorvēģu valoda

Noun

 * 1) Nynorsk, new Norwegian one of the two standardized forms of the Norwegian language

title: jaunnorvēģu valoda


text: kristallisierender

title: kristallisierender


text: kristallisierende

title: kristallisierende


text: kristallisierendes

title: kristallisierendes


text: kristallisierenden

title: kristallisierenden


text: kristallisierendem

title: kristallisierendem


text:
kryoskopisch

Adjective

 * 1) cryoscopic

title: kryoskopisch


text:
Kryoskopie

Noun

 * 1) cryoscopy

title: Kryoskopie


text: jaunnorvēģu valodā

title: jaunnorvēģu valodā


text: jaunnorvēģu valodu

title: jaunnorvēģu valodu


text: jaunnorvēģu valodai

title: jaunnorvēģu valodai


text: jaunnorvēģu valodas

title: jaunnorvēģu valodas


text:
Kunstdünger

Noun

 * 1) fertilizer (especially artificial)

title: Kunstdünger


text:
Kupferkies

Noun

 * 1)  chalcopyrite (copper pyrites)

title: Kupferkies


text:
jaunnorvēģu

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Nynorsk, new Norwegian referring to one of the two standardized forms of the Norwegian language

title: jaunnorvēģu


text: kurzwelliger

title: kurzwelliger


text: kurzwellige

title: kurzwellige


text: kurzwelliges

title: kurzwelliges


text: kurzwelligen

title: kurzwelligen


text: kurzwelligem

title: kurzwelligem


text:
Kuzelit

Noun

 * 1)  kuzelite

title: Kuzelit


text: Käfigen

title: Käfigen


text: Category:Dutch terms suffixed with -niem


text: Category:Dutch terms prefixed with pseudo-


text: Category:Dutch terms prefixed with homo-


text: Category:Dutch terms prefixed with hetero-


text: Kaliumpyrosulfits

title: Kaliumpyrosulfits


text: Pyrosulfite

title: Pyrosulfite


text: Pyrosulfits

title: Pyrosulfits


text: Kaliumsulfats

title: Kaliumsulfats


text: Bundesregierungen

title: Bundesregierungen


text: Stuttgarters

title: Stuttgarters


text: Category:Dutch terms suffixed with -fiel


text: Kaolins

title: Kaolins


text: Katalysatorgifte

title: Katalysatorgifte


text: Katalysatorgifts

title: Katalysatorgifts


text: Katalysatorgiftes

title: Katalysatorgiftes


text: Kermesits

title: Kermesits


text: Kesselwägen

title: Kesselwägen


text: Kesselwagens

title: Kesselwagens


text: Kinasen

title: Kinasen


text: Kometenschweife

title: Kometenschweife


text: Kometenschweifes

title: Kometenschweifes


text: Komproportionierungen

title: Komproportionierungen


text: Konformationen

title: Konformationen


text: Konformationsisomere

title: Konformationsisomere


text: Konformationsisomers

title: Konformationsisomers


text: korrosionsfördernder

title: korrosionsfördernder


text: Konformationsisomerien

title: Konformationsisomerien


text: Kontaktverfahrens

title: Kontaktverfahrens


text: korrosionsfördernde

title: korrosionsfördernde


text: Kristallflächen

title: Kristallflächen


text: korrosionsförderndes

title: korrosionsförderndes


text: Kunstdüngers

title: Kunstdüngers


text: Kupferkiese

title: Kupferkiese


text: korrosionsfördernden

title: korrosionsfördernden


text: Kupferkieses

title: Kupferkieses


text: Kuzelits

title: Kuzelits


text: korrosionsförderndem

title: korrosionsförderndem


text: kryoskopischer

title: kryoskopischer


text: kryoskopische

title: kryoskopische


text: kryoskopisches

title: kryoskopisches


text: kryoskopischen

title: kryoskopischen


text: kryoskopischem

title: kryoskopischem


text: kahler

title: kahler


text: kahlerer

title: kahlerer


text: kahlere

title: kahlere


text: kahleres

title: kahleres


text: kahleren

title: kahleren


text: kahlerem

title: kahlerem


text: kahlster

title: kahlster


text: kahlste

title: kahlste


text: kahlstes

title: kahlstes


text: kahlsten

title: kahlsten


text: kahlstem

title: kahlstem


text: kahles

title: kahles


text: kahlen

title: kahlen


text: kahlem

title: kahlem


text: frankenfish

title: frankenfish


text:
Lagertank

Noun

 * 1) storage tank

title: Lagertank


text: langkettiger

title: langkettiger


text: langkettige

title: langkettige


text: langkettiges

title: langkettiges


text: langkettigen

title: langkettigen


text: langkettigem

title: langkettigem


text:
сверх того

Adverb

 * 1) moreover, besides, additionally by way of addition

title: сверх того


text:
Lapislazuli

Noun

 * 1)  lapis lazuli

title: Lapislazuli


text:
būkmols

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Noun

 * 1) Bokmål one of the two standardized forms of the Norwegian language

title: būkmols


text:
воздушное пространство

Noun

 * 1) airspace controlled portion of atmosphere

title: воздушное пространство


text:
Lavafluss

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) lava flow

title: Lavafluss


text: Lavaflüssen

title: Lavaflüssen


text:
воздушная трасса

Noun

 * 1) airway flight path used by aeroplanes

title: воздушная трасса


text:
алкогольное отравление

Noun

 * 1) alcohol poisoning

title: алкогольное отравление


text:
Talk:medal table

Deletion debate
It's a table of medals. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:16, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Before someone asks, the sense of table is "A classification of teams or individuals based on their success over a predetermined period." which I think was added by the same user as created medal table. FWIW I think that sense is accurate if not imprecise, the table refers to a visual representation of the classification of... Mglovesfun (talk) 13:19, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete SOP. — Ungoliant (Falai) 16:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep as translation target. Contains many one-word idiomatic translations. I think there should be a rule to keep entries with one-word idiomatic translations. Matthias Buchmeier (talk) 10:36, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep the Olympic sense only. This table shows numbers of logical medals per country, not physical medals per individual or team. (In team events, each person gets a physical medal, but only a single logical medal is awarded to the country represented) SemperBlotto (talk) 14:44, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. User: PalkiaX50 talk to meh 17:23, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Kept. bd2412 T 03:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:medal table


text:
алгебраическое уравнение

Noun

 * 1) algebraic equation mathematical equation

title: алгебраическое уравнение


text:
laxierend

Adjective

 * 1)  laxative, purgative

title: laxierend


text:
Talk:I have autism

Deletion debate
I've nothing against autists but, how is this phrasebook material? It is certainly not any common. -- Liliana • 18:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Haha, it is around here! Equinox ◑ 18:36, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Is this even how it's usually said? Isn't I'm autistic more common? --Yair rand (talk) 18:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 * I thought that the usefulness of letting company know that one is autistic or possesses autism was reason enough to conserve this. Some entries, such as ‘I need a razor’ are not common in writing but are, I suppose, still permitted if they are convenient. Since I (apparently) do not have a good grasp on what is either useful or common, I can stop creating more phrasebook entries if anyone desires, since they are not that important to me. In any case, I have to admit that I honestly do not really care if this entry becomes deleted or not. --Æ&Œ (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (Re Yair:) I don't know. I do know that literature from diabetes organizations refer to people with diabetes as just that, not as diabetics. —msh210℠ (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. —msh210℠ (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, I'd rather see this as I have... with also I'm... and I need... rather than naming every single noun and adjective. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per MG; sounds like a good solution. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 20:24, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * @Mglovesfun: the problem is that the choice of "I have", "I am", "I need" is terribly dependent on the language and culture (whether target or source). --129.125.102.126 01:20, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I can bear if this particular example to be deleted but strongly against deleting all of them all. A couple of more common, e.g. I have diabetes and I have cancer should be kept. They are phrasebook items. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Gone. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:42, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:I have autism


text:
عجم

Etymology
From the root. The word is from a pre-Islamic form, from the root , referring to people who speak unclearly (thus reflecting the same semantic evolution as ).

Noun

 * 1) non-Arabs (as foreigners or barbarians)
 * 2)  Persians.

Usage notes

 * The affective value attributed to the word depends on the point of view of the user, and the historical period. For example, it had a markedly negative connotation during the Umayyad period, whereas it was often quite positive in the Abbasid period, when Iranians had much political and social influence.

Verb

 * 1) to bite, to chew
 * 2) to try, to test

Verb

 * 1) to point the text, to write distinguishing marks to it

Noun

 * 1) stones, kernels, pits, pips, fruit seeds

Etymology
, from, which is related to.

Noun

 * 1) an Ajam, a Persian

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) Persian; Iranian; Ajam

Proper noun

 * 1) Iran; Persia

title: عجم


text:
riksmols

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Noun

 * 1) Riksmål a more conservative form of Bokmål, one of the two standardized forms of the Norwegian language

title: riksmols


text:
всё время

Adverb

 * 1) all along duration
 * 2) always, all the time

title: всё время


text: būkmolu

title: būkmolu


text:
Talk:battle

Deletion debate
rfd-redundant: "A patient's struggle with a long-term, potentially deadly illness, such as cancer". This is just the struggle sense in a specific context. Overly specific for my liking too, as you can battle any illness whether potentially fatal or not, or battle against injuries. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. You can have a battle with cancer, a battle with a cold, a battle with an injury, a battle with your conscience, a battle with your hair, a battle with your anxiety, and so on. These are all captured by the sense “struggle”. —Caesura(t) 15:28, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. — Ungoliant (Falai) 15:55, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, and move the 2012 citation under either 1 or 2. Leasnam (talk) 16:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep or Move. I thought about creating lose one's battle instead; can you lose your battle with a cold or an injury? I think you can only lose your battle with a fatal illness. This is an idiom not directly translatable into all languages that have sense #1 or sense #2. If you view it as the same as #1 or #2 you might as well delete #2 and just leave #1. As well as which, someone need not necessarily be "struggling"; maybe they are actively taking drugs or trying treatments or consulting doctors, but maybe they are just lying in bed hoping they get better. One might say their body is struggling, but again that's at one remove from #2. Jnestorius (talk) 22:03, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Though I see someone changed my definition to "specifically, A patient's struggle..." which framed it nicely for a delete. I've changed this to "A patient's suffering from ..." as it's not necessarily a struggle. Jnestorius (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I honestly think you've made the definition worse, it probably qualifies for speedy deletion now for being just plain wrong, as it does refer to the struggle not the suffering. I will therefore revert to the correct (but in my view redundant) definition. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you're mistaken. Regardless of the level of abstraction/metaphor, a battle is something you fight, and fighting is inherently active, not passive. Although you could quibble about whether "struggling" is the best word, it's got to be some synonym that involves active opposition. As for losing a battle with a cold, if I feel like I might be coming down with a cold, I do everything I can to help my immune system so I can fight it off. In that sense, ending up with a full-blown cold is indeed losing a battle with the cold. Any outcome which you've unsuccessfully tried to avoid can be metaphorically described as having lost your battle with that which caused the outcome. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * For example "he lost his battle with cancer" doesn't mean "he lost his suffering against cancer". Mglovesfun (talk) 09:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * A battle with a cold or injury is still a battle between you and the illness/trauma. Even if "you" are not actively participating, your immune system still is, and your immune system is part of you therefore "you" are struggling with the other combatant. If a person is in a coma and suffering from cold, is he/she struggling with illness? I'd say yes. Delete --BiblbroX дискашн 10:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Delete per nom.--Dmol (talk) 22:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Keep. This term is commonly associated with these types of struggles, moreso than battles with hair. Hardly a contest as the cancer also loses in the end. Reword with the angle of a personal struggle, using a terminal illness as a "such as". Specifically already marks it as a subsense. DAVilla 00:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Deleted. Kept the citation under the struggle sense. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:41, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

RFV discussion: November–December 2021
Rfv-sense: The main body of an army, as distinct from the vanguard and rear; the battalia. MooreDoor (talk) 14:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Cited. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 00:55, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 20:26, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:battle


text: būkmolā

title: būkmolā


text: būkmola

title: būkmola


text:
Talk:rule with an iron fist

Deletion debate
just one of many collocations that occur with iron fist -- Liliana • 11:15, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete The usage example conveys the common collocation. DCDuring TALK 13:47, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per DCDuring. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:47, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. rule with an iron fist. bd2412 T 04:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Redirect to iron fist. —msh210℠ (talk) 20:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Redirected. —Ruakh TALK 00:05, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:rule with an iron fist


text:
инбусовый ключ

Noun

 * 1) Allen key a hex head wrench

title: инбусовый ключ


text: būkmolam

title: būkmolam


text:
Talk:LY335979

Deletion debate
Synonym for zosuquidar:. I dispute that this is English — maybe a Translingual entry is appropriate, but it seems more like a reference number than a word. Equinox ◑ 17:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Compare E250 et al. (the E numbers). Therefore, keep and move to Translingual. --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * But is this used in running text? If no, an RFV might be in order. -- Liliana • 07:10, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Converted to translingual. - -sche (discuss) 03:08, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Striking Mglovesfun (talk) 22:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:LY335979


text: riksmolu

title: riksmolu


text: riksmola

title: riksmola


text: riksmolā

title: riksmolā


text:
Talk:top totty

Deletion debate
SoP. Top mate, top geezer, top guy. Equinox ◑ 14:05, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, easily (and correctly) analyzable as top + totty. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:02, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted. —Ruakh TALK 17:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:top totty


text: riksmolam

title: riksmolam


text:
альфа и омега

Noun

 * 1) alpha and omega the first and the last

title: альфа и омега


text:
Talk:wrapper class

Deletion debate
"Any class serving as a wrapper" - obvious SoP. I will add that this is my own definition, because the original one (suggesting that only primitive data types can be wrapped; see boxing) was incorrect. Suppose I had a complex class that handled sending e-mail, and I wanted to change part of its behaviour, so I wrote a second class encapsulating the first and changing part of its public interface; this wrapper of mine would certainly be a wrapper, and would certainly be a class, and would also be a "wrapper class". Equinox ◑ 00:40, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. I agree with your change to the definition ("wrapper class" can refer to any class that is a wrapper, not just a boxed primitive), and I agree that this new, correct definition is SoP. —Caesura(t) 01:10, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete obvious SoP, and I can tell who added it without bothering to look. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:26, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Redirect or revise definition and keep. This is often used a set term and it is likely people will look it up as such. --WikiTiki89 (talk) 09:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Redirected to [[wrapper]]. —Ruakh TALK 16:57, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:wrapper class


text:
альпийский рог

Noun

 * 1) alphorn musical instrument

title: альпийский рог


text:
Talk:one and one's

Deletion debate
Catch-all entry for "you and your (bad temper)", "those kids and their (stupid dog)", etc. Should be deleted because it isn't the form that is used ("one and one's" probably isn't attestable at all); compare those entries we used to have like I'll see you X and raise you Y, which failed RFD. Equinox ◑ 21:10, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd love to be able to keep these, but not in principal namespace. Move to Appendix:Snowclones/X and X&. DCDuring TALK 21:52, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What DCDuring said. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:55, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, I'll see you and raise you. DCDuring TALK 21:57, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete In almost all the citations given, the expression of frustration is clearly not in the construction "X and X's whatever". It's in the "oh" ("A word to precede an offhand or annoyed remark, an invocation or address"), the "that" (although we don't currently have the right sense, there's also a dismissive use of the word, as in the northern England expression "that London") and the exclamation mark (or, in speech, the intonation). "Oh, that infernal Irishman and his pack of hell-hounds!" can totally be broken down into parts - you could cut the "and his pack of hell-hounds" and the sentence would still be grammatical and still express the speaker's anger at the Irishman. No-one would ever try to decode that sentence by looking up "one and one's". The entry is useless (worse than useless, it's wrong. "one and one's" is not an expression of frustration. No-one yells "one and one's". Something like "A construction to express anger or frustration at a person's behaviour" be closer). Smurrayinchester (talk) 21:58, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Many of the entries in Category:English interjections are wrong in similar ways: the emotion is not inherent in the expression or not in the entire expression. I agree no one except fans of snowclones or of would look this up. It seems to be used to frame an event or topic to be discussed or to pass judgement on it. Does it have to be a negative framing or judgment? It could certainly me just mildly negative: "You and your silly word games." DCDuring TALK  22:35, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note also that "one and one's" isn't actually broad enough to capture all formulations of this expression. For example, the expression can appear as "you and those" or "you with your" instead of "you and your". And the "someone" needn't even be a person, e.g. "Stupid London and its damn weather." In addition, it's not hard to find uses of the "one and one's" interjection that aren't expressing anything like exasperation or frustration. This search has a few examples. So I'm not sure there's really any substance here. By the time you get done broadening the form of the entry to capture all possible formulations and broadening the definition to encompass all the meanings it takes on, there would be nothing left. Delete. —Caesura(t) 23:26, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Tea_room/2010/March. DCDuring TALK 22:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. I would note, however, that you and yours should have an entry for the sense of "you and your family, or you and your loved ones", as commonly used in holiday cards. Cheers! bd2412 T 04:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:44, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:one and one's


text:
Talk:the next guy

Deletion debate
suggests that although "guy" might be the plurality collocate, it's not the majority collocate, and certainly not the sole collocate. Ergo, this is a property of, not of. —Ruakh TALK 17:24, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The only place we have this collocation is in a usage example or citation at IBG YBG, which is very not helpful. Some sense of [[next]] seems the right place for an illustrative citation using "as much as the next guy". Once we have it, Delete. DCDuring TALK 18:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Our elaboration of senses at [[next]] didn't include this kind of figurative/hypothetical sequence, but does now. DCDuring TALK 19:08, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Deleted. —msh210℠ (talk) 18:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:the next guy


text:
Talk:leaning against

Deletion debate
This is a verb form of lean against, with the only translation given being SoP as well. No use in having it. -- Liliana • 08:04, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete as lean against is not a phrasal verb by any definition or criteria presented here. DCDuring TALK 14:34, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Obvious delete. DAVilla 04:13, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Certainly SOP, but I have included this as phrasebook/translations-only entry, as IMHO the translations might be of practical use. Matthias Buchmeier (talk) 13:28, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:47, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:leaning against


text:
стрельба из лука

Etymology
Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) archery the practice

title: стрельба из лука


text:
ярҙам

Etymology
From an language; Compare 🇨🇬 and  (reborrowed from Turkic).

Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) help, assistance, aid

title: ярҙам


text:
Talk:I ♥ U

Deletion debate
Not useful for a phrasebook -- Liliana • 19:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete. DAVilla 04:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Delete. As a phrasebook entry, redundant to I love you. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:28, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. We already have an English verb entry for ♥ (hmmm), which covers this kind of thing. Equinox ◑ 23:15, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Deleted. —Ruakh TALK 18:09, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:I ♥ U


text:
Talk:non-exclusive list

Deletion debate
A list that is non-exclusive. See. —Ruakh TALK 20:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete according to our rules, although weakly because I see little harm when the definition of non-exclusive says "of a list". DAVilla 04:16, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. bd2412 T 01:16, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. DCDuring TALK 03:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted. —Ruakh TALK 18:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:non-exclusive list


text:
аромунский

Adjective

 * 1) Aromanian

Noun

 * 1) Aromanian language

title: аромунский


text:
Talk:out-Herod

out-Heroding
SOP and/or too specific. (Also see above.) --WikiTiki89 (talk) 10:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, super super straight forward. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Keep single word, well-attested. Ƿidsiþ 10:15, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Outside of Shakespeare and outside of quoting Shakespeare? --WikiTiki89 (talk) 10:18, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * By the way, where is our single-word policy? I want to read it but I can't seem to find it. --WikiTiki89 (talk) 10:24, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have one. And yes, since Shakespeare many people have borrowed this phrase. Ƿidsiþ 10:51, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * for Wikitiki89, There isn't one, WT:CFI line one says "As an international dictionary, Wiktionary is intended to include “all words in all languages”." but then line 2-3 "This in turn leads to the somewhat more formal guideline of including a term if it is attested and idiomatic." which to me contradicts line 1 as not all words are attested and idiomatic. This one, even if it is a single words, does not seem to be idiomatic. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:57, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it doesn't seem any less idiomatic that outrun:, outlast: etc. Ƿidsiþ 11:11, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree with your view that it is a single word. If it were a single word, there would be no need for a hyphen to separate the prefix from the verb. The hyphen indicates that this is not a real "word" but simply the prefix "out-" plus the verb "Herod". --WikiTiki89 (talk) 11:31, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a good argument, given that words like outlast: can also be spelt with a hyphen, and out-Herod: can also be spelt without one. Ƿidsiþ 11:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * out-last is an alternative form for the single-word term outlast (and also happens to not exist here). If you can get outHerod to pass RFV then I guess we'll have to keep out-Herod. --WikiTiki89 (talk) 12:04, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That is a circular argument. Anyway, I've added and cited outherod:, but there was really no need to resort to COALMINE to get this one through IMO. Ƿidsiþ 12:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Do obsolete single-word forms count for COALMINE? --WikiTiki89 (talk) 12:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The verb "Herod"? We're missing that one! Equinox ◑ 11:36, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We're missing a lot of words. I would not be against adding [[Herod]] and supporting it with all the citations Widsith just added to [[out-Herod]]. --WikiTiki89 (talk) 12:04, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * But we'd then need a usage note saying "Only used with out-", which is sillier than just having out-Herod! Equinox ◑ 14:33, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Once context is established, it need no longer only be used with out-, although I don't know if we'd be able to find many cites for that. Regardless, I've already changed my vote to keep (below). --WikiTiki89 (talk) 14:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Keep. —Ruakh TALK 13:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep DCDuring TALK 13:10, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * After Widsith's edits to the definition and thinking it through a bit, I now change my vote to keep. --WikiTiki89 (talk) 13:18, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Kept per new edits and consensus. --Adding quotes (talk) 14:03, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Kept inflected forms as well. —Ruakh TALK 18:06, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:out-Herod


text:
притворный

Adjective

 * 1) mock, feigned
 * 2) sham, pretended, assumed
 * 3) fictive
 * 4) simulated
 * 5) affected
 * 6) artificial false, misleading
 * 7) hypocritical
 * 8) shoddy
 * 9) seeming
 * 10) bastard
 * 11)  rabbet, window rabbet

title: притворный


text:
ненатуральный

Adjective

 * 1) unnatural, artificial, affected

title: ненатуральный


text:
Talk:Mustelidea

Deletion debate
I don't think this is common enough to be a common misspelling of the taxonomic name Mustelidae (47/81,000 ~ 0.05%) at Google Books. I don't see how it can be called an alternative spelling. DCDuring TALK 19:52, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually looks like a typo, accidentally inverting the last two letters, delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:33, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia page seems to be Musteloidea, seems to be a typo from musteloid that's been propagated. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:59, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * and -oidea is a superfamily, one level above an -idae, a family. Based on citations, we should have Musteloidea (Wikispecies doesn't have this) as well as Mustelidae and Mustela and mustela. But, yes, that kind of thing makes for typos and typesetting errors.
 * This probably should just be moved to Musteloidea, once the misspelling/alt spelling is decided, to give us the missing entry with just a little adjustment work. DCDuring TALK 23:36, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Zoological names above genus in rank are formed by removing the ending from the genitive singular of the name of the type genus, and adding an ending specific to the rank (though the ICZN doesn't cover orders and related ranks, or above, so there are lots of exceptions). -oidea is the standard ending for a superfamily. Before this system was formalized, taxonomists would use their own idiosyncratic endings, so there's a possibility this is one of those that never caught on- but it certainly looks like a straightforward error for Mustelidae. As for what Wikispecies has: they're governed by whether a name is taxonomically correct, but we're governed by whether it is, or has been, in use. Also, they don't show all possible taxonomic levels unless they mean something- ranks such as suborder, infraorder, subfamily, tribe, subtribe, etc. theoretically exist, but are left out to avoid clutter. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The creator of this entry created it with links to Wikipedia and Wikispecies so clearly though they existed, but neither of these pages exist (or ever have done) so I think it is safe to assume a typo and the entry should be moved. SemperBlotto is still an active editor so we could simply ask him what he meant. Spinning Spark  17:26, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Looks like a spelling mistake. There are 32 Google book hits for Mustelidea:, but 81,000 for Mustelidae:.SemperBlotto (talk) 18:10, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted. —Ruakh TALK 16:00, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mustelidea


text:
Talk:enterprise information system

Deletion debate
"Any kind of computing system that is of "enterprise class"." Well, yeah, in the way that my beloved green hat is "any kind of hat that is green". Not all WP article titles are suitable dict entries. Equinox ◑ 15:35, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I assumed it was the information system on the USS Enterprise. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:38, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Or a system used by the information desk at an enterprise. Delete --WikiTiki89 15:41, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Or a system for inputing information about a prize. Delete. — Ungoliant (Falai) 15:48, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Should we have a sense for enterprise, even if only used attributively, that means "suitable for use by a business enterprise of substantial size." In IT sales jargon, isn't enterprise sometimes used to differentiate systems by their claimed reliability and other dimensions of special relevance for businesses etc? Such a sense obviously flows from meaning of enterprise, but seems distinguishable to me. DCDuring TALK 16:55, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

 * See enterprisey. Equinox ◑ 22:10, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Yet more SoP crap from Sae1962. Delete SemperBlotto (talk) 07:19, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Delete as just a sum of its parts. DAVilla 09:01, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted. —Ruakh TALK 04:11, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:enterprise information system


text:
Talk:get out of there

Deletion debate
All sums of parts, where "there" is "your shared accommodation", "my handbag", etc. Equinox ◑ 17:57, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Straightforward Delete. --WikiTiki89 19:15, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Embarrassing entry, please delete it. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry, this looks like a delete. But please tell me which meaning of get out fits "get out of my handbag". If the first then can it be broadened? DAVilla 04:07, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted. —Ruakh TALK 05:16, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:get out of there


text:
искусственное оплодотворение

Noun

 * 1) artificial insemination introduction of semen

title: искусственное оплодотворение


text:
Talk:argent-

Deletion debate
Is this really a prefix? All of the derived terms seem to be [[argent]]+suffix, not prefix+suffix. - -sche (discuss) 19:01, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. --WikiTiki89 19:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I really can't disagree, what evidence is there that this is an English suffix, even an obsolete one? Delete or come up with some evidence that this exists. Mglovesfun (talk)
 * Delete, though it does bring up the question of what to do with meaningful morphemes that aren't affixes, but also not independent words. There might be some benefit to having them treated somewhere- perhaps an appendix. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you give an example of one? - -sche (discuss) 21:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * cran- (as in cranberry), though perhaps it doesn't fit the bill as I don't think it is meaningful.
 * Taking a synchronic point of view there are many so-called "cran-morphemes". Diachronically it is from "crane", but no normal speaker would recognize it as such and it is not productive. DCDuring TALK 23:10, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted; argento- may need cleanup. - -sche (discuss) 09:59, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Striking. —Ruakh TALK 15:08, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:argent-


text:
waerbea

Etymology
From, cognate to.

Noun

 * 1) warble (larva of Hypoderma spp. and the skin lesions caused by it).

Synonyms
waerbåd, tchalon, molon

title: waerbea


text: hugsar

title: hugsar


text: hugsande

title: hugsande


text: hugsast

title: hugsast


text: hugse

title: hugse


text:
Talk:do a 180

Deletion debate
180 has "do a 180" in an example sentence, and a usage note saying it's used with do. Actually, you can hang, make, or flip a 180 as well, and you can say things like "it was a complete 180 from". There doesn't seem to be anything idiomatic about having do in this phrase. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Delete. DAVilla 11:26, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:26, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. But the sense of 180 should be expanded, or another definition added. My understanding of 180 is when a car does a screeching U-turn. --Dmol (talk) 09:57, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It's any sort of half-turn really, widely used in juggling (180, 360, 720, 1080 and less common is 1440 just because so few people in the world can do them). Mglovesfun (talk) 10:15, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Nothing idiomatic about the use with do. DCDuring TALK 13:51, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Delete. - -sche (discuss) 00:36, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Redirect to 180. —msh210℠ (talk) 06:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Deleted. (But if someone wants to redirect it to [[180]], be my guest.) —Ruakh TALK 04:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:do a 180