text:
Wiktionary talk:About Latin/Archive 1

Latin in uppercase

 * This topic was discussed on the Index talk:Latin page.

Macrons on the inflection line

 * This discussion copied from Wiktionary talk:Entry layout explained/POS headers

English has Category:English verbs and Category:Verb forms.

Other languages usually have both if applicable; this of course varies with language. Robert Ullmann 09:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I oppose these forms, I prefer simple "noun" and "verb" type headings, even for declensions and conjugations. - TheDaveRoss 18:37, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I support using X form for non-lemma entries from inflected languages, but have no strong opinion one way of the other for English and languages inflected to a similar degree. For inflected languages, using X form helps guide users to lemma forms. Consider that using only Verb would mean that the Spanish verb nadar would have 62 additional entries listed in the Verb category just from the simple tenses alone. Separating them puts the lemma in the Verb Category and all the others in the Verb form category. This also assists when editing or visually inspecting an article. There are some languages for which it will not be clear which form is the lemma.  Latin is one such case.  We seem to be using the infinite as the lemma form most often, but every Latin dictionary I've ever seen uses the first person singular present active indicative form as the lemma.  By using "Verb form", we clue in later editors that the page should not be expanded because the page in question is a non-lemma. --EncycloPetey 22:23, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I think you missed one of my points above: the categorization is separable from the POS header. Just as we use Noun for both singular and plural forms, but then cat in Category:English nouns and Category:English plurals we can use Verb and cat in (language) verbs, verb forms, and various specific verb forms. As to identifying the non-lemmata more clearly, I have an idea based on something that has been bugging me since I first started seriously working on the wikt. I'll expand on it infra a bit later today ... Robert Ullmann 13:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

 * As I have said elsewhere, but perhaps was not clear on, I too oppose any inclusion of " form" in headings, for English or for other languages. --Connel MacKenzie 22:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

 * In principle I am against the " form" POS headings, in English and other languages. For reason of simplicity! (By the way, we should try not to distinguish between English and other languages, also to not complicate matters.) The form vs form discussion should be linked with the corresponding templates. The lemma and non-lemma could both have the heading Adjective, Noun or Verb, but the distinction should be made by the added template. The lemma must be accompanied by the default template en-adj, en-noun or en-verb. The non-lemma must not be accompanied by one of these templates (for which they do not fit at the moment!), but one of the non-lemma templates like plural of| or past of|. After the creation of the needed templates, this distinction could be used for Latin and similar languages.
 * That's the theory. But look at a few (difficult) cases: stadia (various Noun headings under various etymologies?) and sheep (what about the singular and the plural under the same heading? and what about the appropriate template (for both?) ?). --Jan, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Connel, have you taken a look at what will be required to have templates for all the Latin inflectional forms? A partial list includes (names of templates not decided):
 * * la-adj : (for the positive masculine or positive common or positive all genders)
 * * la-adj-pos-f : (positive feminine)
 * * la-adj-pos-n : (positive neuter)
 * * la-adj-comp-m : (comparative masculine)
 * * la-adj-comp-f : (comparative feminine)
 * * la-adj-comp-c : (comparative common)
 * * la-adj-comp-n : (comparative neuter)
 * * la-adj-sup-m : (superlative masculine)
 * *:...and this continues but only gets us the nominative singular forms of adjectives!.
 * We then still have to note genitive, accusative, dative, vocative (and some locative) for all of the above, just to finish the singular forms. Then everything is doubled to accomodate the plurals. It then proceeds to pos/comp/sup forms of adverbs, nouns in the singular and plural of the nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, (and locative for some).  It includes inflected forms of all the pronouns, and we still haven't mentioned verbs or irregulars. And then there's Greek...
 * Either the system you propose will generate mountains of work for template writers, or we need to rethink it for simplicity. --EncycloPetey 14:53, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Parameters, Sir, Parameters! etc. Robert Ullmann 15:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * But that still requires a mountain of work for template writers who have to contend with all of this. Could we see a sample such template done for Spanish verb forms (and perhaps one for Latin nouns), in order to see how this will work? Remember that Latin nouns have both a display form with macrons and an entry form that lacks them. --EncycloPetey 15:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. The entry must always be as written. The display must always be as written. If these are different you are in a world of hurt, and will be there until someone cleans up the mess ... If Latin is written with the macrons the entry form is wrong. If it isn't, the display form is wrong (it belongs in pronunciation) Robert Ullmann 12:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No, neither form is wrong. The macrons do not belong in the pronunciation section; they are present because (1) all textbooks and dictionaries use them as standard for entry header forms, but they are not used in the entry page name because (2) the Romans and medieval writers didn't use them.  See About Latin, where I've started collecting information about Latin entries for a draft.  Yes, the templates get fussy over the macrons, which is why RodASmith has submitted additional code (to wherever such proposals go) in order to make his draft {la-noun} template work.  RodASmith understands the issue, as he knows a bit of Latin himself. We will have a similar issue with Ancient Greek, because of similar conventions regarding the differences between ancient texts and modern editions. --EncycloPetey 00:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is Modern Latin written with macrons? (Textbooks and dictionaries don't count. They are mention not use). As you say, the use of Latin does not use macrons. The Random House Unabridged lists dictionary as dic-tion-ar-y (with centered dots), but it isn't written that way. My Swahili dictionary capitalizes all the headwords. So what? If Latin isn't written with macrons, they should not be in entry names, headwords, or forms. Robert Ullmann 18:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The readings in many books are, but in others they're not. This is very, very different from the cases you've mentioned. The written passages themselves contain the macrons, not just headwords. --EncycloPetey 19:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That is still textbook mention, not how Latin is written in modern use.
 * Do you consider all the quotations from literature on Wiktionary to be mention or examples of use? The textbooks quote passages from Classical Latin authors, but modern editorial conventions add the macrons, just as modern editions of Shakespeare modernize and normalize the punctuation and spelling.  This is use, not mention. --EncycloPetey 22:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope. If a textbook quotes from literature, that is mention. Use would be a book written in Latin. Similarily, quotes in the wikt are mention. Robert Ullmann 23:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Pardon? In what sense are you distinguishing use-mention? Granted, quoting a passage in a textbook would be indirect, but it's still use of the word. DAVilla 06:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, if you look at the original, which is use, there are no macrons, look at the quotation, and the textbook has add macrons that are not used to "help" the reader. Robert Ullmann
 * "Mention" as it applies to the quote perhaps, but not to the word itself. I'm not arguing against your point, I just think you're using the wrong language. The use-mention distinction does not capture the concept you're thinking of. DAVilla 08:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Robert, you seem to be making your distinction based on length of the passage. Would it help to point out that Wheelock's (the people who publish one of the major Latin textbooks) publish the accompanying Reader (collection of sample passages in Latin) as a separate volume? --EncycloPetey 17:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Has nothing to do with length. Has to do with whether someone is writing in Latin, or quoting written Latin with "helpful" pronunciation hints. The Reader is not a work in Latin, it is a collection with "helpful" macrons added that simply do not appear in actual written Latin!! Robert Ullmann 18:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Are the people at Victiōnārium writing in Latin? The main page uses macrons on the name of the site.  For entries, the inflection line immediately under each POS header uses macrons.  If the people writing the Latin edition of Wiktionary are using macrons in their inflection lines and inflection tables, then why are you against using them on our Latin inflection lines and inflection tables here? --EncycloPetey 01:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Macrons serve as more than mere pronunciation aids, however. For example, victum and vīctum are both past participles (of vincere and vīvere, respectively), yet without the macron on the latter one would not know if the meaning were conquered or lived. In such an instance, how are we to proceed without the use of the macron? Furthermore, Romans, unlike the Greeks, had no orthographical conventions for denoting long versus short vowels, but we do and should thus take advantage of this fact. As far as in practice, I'm not sure if Wheelock's Latin Reader is the best example. (I own a copy of the second edition in which macrons are not used.) In my experience, all of my Latin courses have been taught using books with macrons as the primary reference for the class, with the exception of my Vergil class (as the professor emphasized being able to understand meter using scansion rules as opposed to relying on macrons). Even in that class, however, the book used at home was the fairly standard Clyde Pharr version in which macrons are in fact used. Etymologically speaking, macrons can here too be helpful. For instance, in examples of compensatory lengthening, it makes sense to represent the lengthened form as having a long vowel in order to reflect this shift. (And as a newcomer, I apologize if I am stepping on any toes and for being generally long-winded.) Medellia 18:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Lemmata for verbs
I've been dreading opening this can of worms. On the English Wiktionary, we currently use the infinitive form of Latin verbs as the lemma (main entry). Presumably this decision was made because that is how most dictionaries for most European languages select their headwords for verbs, and in particular the dictionaries for Romance langauges do this (esp. Spanish, French, and Italian). However, Latin (and Greek) dictionaries do not use the infinitive as the headword; they instead use the first person singular present active indicative (first principal part) as the headword. Part of the reason for this is that it is the first form of any verb that is memorized by students learning conjugation tables. It is also due in part to the fact that the infinitive in Latin often does not behave like a verb at all, but as a verbal noun.

So, should we switch to using the first principal part as the lemma form of Latin verbs (and possibly Ancient Greek)? There's an added reason to do this, and it is the reason I've finally breached the topic. I've just checked Victiōnārium and discovered that they're using the first principal part as the lemma form for their verbs. That means that since we currently use the infinitive as the lemma, we can't cross-link lemma forms between the two Wiktionary projects. Most of their entries don't even have the infinitive form entered yet. Even when they are entered, it will mean that lemmata between the two projects will each be connected to non-lemmata on the other edition.

Since the Latin Wiktionary and all major dictionaries and textbooks use the first principal parts of Latin verbs as the lemma form, I propose that we switch to doing the same. --EncycloPetey 01:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I support the use of the first principal part. I agree with the points raised by EncycloPetey; furthermore, the infinitive is not among the Greek principal parts. For greater parity between the two (and also keeping in accordance with reference works and the like), I feel it would be in the best interest of users to present this form.

 * Ancient Greek has been using the first principal part for verbal citation as far as I can tell. Out of curiosity, how many entries will have to be moved or fixed to reflect the new format? Medellia 02:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I've no idea. I don't think anyone has used a 'bot yet to locate all the Latin verb entries (which could be a little tricky given the similarity of some Italian verbs), and they've never all been tagged for categories.  I'm also not sure that past editors have consistently used the infinitive.  There may be some lemma-style Latin entries under the first principal part. However, I'd be surprised if we had more than 400 Latin verbs -- there are about 300 listed in Category:Latin verbs. --EncycloPetey 02:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Permaxime amici vobis consentio. Meditor tamen...audemusne titulos scribere forma "xxo, xxare" apud victionarium... Redirectiones quippe teneamus faciamusque ad omnia verba latina in casu infinitivo.--Ioshus (talk) 06:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I followed this link from my victionarii account...didn't realize I was at the english one. What I'm saying is, it's standard dictionary practice to least both two principal parts. Would that be over the top? It would solve the problem raised by Kipmaster below...because rightly we are bound to translate the first person singular properly as latin allows, but the english practice is to use a (supine) infinitive in its dictionaries. If we are proposing to change all lemnata, why not do it properly? I am a relative nexcomer, here, though...so take my propositions more as questions.--Ioshus (talk) 17:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Support. --Ptcamn 10:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Sounds like a sensible idea, though obviously in an ideal world there will be decent entries for the infinitive forms as well. Widsith 11:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Support. --Eng in ear 13:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Support (latin) I don't know about Greek, but I agree that, for Latin, the first principal part should be used for the main entry. I'm wondering, though, how the entry will look like. Will we define "video" as "I see" or as "to see"? Another similar question goes for translations. In the article for the verb "to see", should we put "video" or "videre" as a translation? Kipmaster 13:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Other languages here have entries for each form of a word. Having crazy redirects means that multiple languages that share occasional spellings present unworkable problems.  Having one of the 'bot operators assist could greatly reduce the confusion, by helping create those entries (each form) rather than creating an onerous policy that eliminates valid entries before they are even entered.  I do not see a compelling reason to force only one type of entry.  --Connel MacKenzie 03:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I thnk you've misunderstood, since I agree with what you're saying and don't see it being at odds with the discussion. No one is arguing against having all forms of the verb.  We're simply deciding which entry form will carry the weight of being the primary entry.  Consider that English verbs typically have four inflected forms.  We've chosen the infinitive as the lemma (primary form), and the other forms (3PS, PresP, PastP) identify that they are forms of the lemma with a link back.  In English, the infinitive usually matches the 1st person singular prsent form, so there's no confusion.  In many inflected languages, however, the two forms differ.  Some languages have print dictionaries that use the infinitive form as the header, but Classical Latin and Greek typically uses the 1st person singular present active indicative as the main header form.  We'd still want to have the infinitives as entries (they're important entries!), but they wouldn't be the primary entry for those verbs. --EncycloPetey 18:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I think you are correct. What I thought I read above was an intent to move entries (leaving redirects,) but if the goal is to have separate entries, then I think all is good.  --Connel MacKenzie 18:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * This can be a problem in several languages. Latin, certainly, should have the 1st-person-sg-present as its main citation form, but, since it is often significantly different from the Latin infinitive, the infinitive should always needs its own entry as well. Several of the languages in the Balkan Union, including Greek and Bulgarian, virtually never use the infinitive form. Some people claim that the infinitive does not even exist in some languages such as Arabic ... Arabic does have an infinitive, but it is used only as a verbal noun, much like an English gerund. In Arabic, most dictionaries take the 3rd-masculine-singular perfective (past tense) as the citation form, because this is the very simplest form and the form on which all the other persons, numbers, moods, and tenses are built. However, a fair number of dictionaries use the 3rd-masculine-singular IMperfective (present tense) as the citation form. On Wiktionary, we are using the past-tense form as the citation form, but eventually the present-tense 3rd-person needs to be included as well.
 * With Finnish nouns, the nominative singular, although the usual choice as a citation form, is very frequently different from the stem, and most of the other cases are built on the stem, not on the nominative. For example, the word for man in the nominative is mies, but the stem is mieh-. Most of the oblique cases are built on the stem mieh-:

 * The noun stem is an important feature in Finnish grammar, and beginning students often cannot guess the nominative form when presented with an oblique case. For this reason, the Finnish stems should have their own separate entries. Other languages are regularly written in different alphabets, and have several to many ways of writing most words. This is something that the editors of each language will be (or should be) aware of, editors must take this into account and design systems that permit easy and logical access for native speakers of English. —Stephen 18:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Stephen on this. Different languages operate under different rules.  Wiktionary editors need to have the flexibility to set different standards for different languages, otherwise certain languages will simply become unwieldy.  To be sure, there needs to be as much standardization as possible, so that people can go through different languages within Wiktionary without too much adjustment.  I don't think it would be too confusing for readers/editors to have the lema take different forms in different languages, perhaps the infinitive for English, 1st singular present active for Greek & Latin, 3rd singular for Arabic (I think Hebrew as well).  And while it sounds nice on paper to say we're going to have big robust articles for each form of a word, that simply isn't feasible.  There needs to one place where people can make additions to, say, λύω and all of its 85 forms (or however many there are).  Otherwise, we will end up with different forms carrying different info, and it will be too much to consistently integrate and spread out.  Cerealkiller13 16:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It sounds then as if everyone active in this discussion is supportive of the general notion. Is there someone willing to tackle writing some basic draft policy, or at least enough that we might hammer out potential pitfalls? For instance, I wouldn't want to see two or three different lemma concepts going on all at once in a single language, as that would break the consistency issue raised above. Perhaps we can state a set of default lemma forms for each part of speech in the WT:ELE, with provision that the About Language page for a particular language could prescribe a different set of lemma forms. Any takers on writing a draft paragraph that includes the core ideas everyone contributed above? --EncycloPetey 23:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I just noticed this conversation. I haven't done much Latin work here, but I was shocked not to see About Latin specify the form of the lemma.  Should I assume that the above conversation is concluded, and that there is general support to locate the lemma entry at the normal location (i.e. the first person singular present tense indicative)?  Could somebody more involved with Latin entries than I please note the proper lemma form in About Latin?  Thanks in advance.  Rod (A. Smith) 01:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Non-classical spellings
About Latin currently says things like "Even though the spelling equus never occurred in Latin", which simply isn't true. It never occurred in Classical Latin (but then, lowercase never occured in Classical Latin). Latin was in use in writing for a very long time, and has been written using a number of different orthographic conventions. I agree with obeying the current rules for the main article, but IVPPITER, Juppiter, Jupiter should still be listed as alternative spellings of Iuppiter, ideally with a note about which time period they were primarily used in. --Ptcamn 10:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Quite right; I'll modify the text accordingly. This is a work in progress (hence the disclaimer at the top of the page), and I'm very glad to see people starting to comment on the content. Thanks. --EncycloPetey 20:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Verb Templates
I'm not sure this is the right place to say this, but I couldn't find anywhere else.

The Latin Templates at the moment seem to be different from the other languages. Looking at the Verb templates for French, Italian and Spanish etc., they are both similar large tables that include all the participles and infinitives. Would anyone object if I replaced the current la-conj-* templates with a similar format to the others. It would mean that we need to replace references to la-inflec-* to la-conj-*.

See: Template:es-conj-ir, Template:fr-conj-er, Template:it-conj-are, Template:la-conj-are, Template:la-inflec-are

Conrad.Irwin 13:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I think part of these reason the template differ is that they were created so long ago. If you want to tidy the current verb conjugation tables, then by all means go ahead.  All the templates should be listed at Category:Latin inflection templates.  Two points though: (1) The infinitives and participles should remain separate. Unlike modern Romance lanugages, Latin had multiple infinitives, and this would be tricky to incorporate into a structure that would parallel what the other languages are using.  The infinitive in Latin also serves a different grammatical function that may require an infinitive table be included where a full conjugation table is not needed.  The same is true of participles.  The participle is a grmmatical verb part, but a functional adjective.  Pages about the participle should have a participle table and the principal parts, but need not list the entire conjugation table. So infinitives and participles should probably remain separate in terms of tables.  (2) There already is a set of la-conj-* templates.  I'm not entirely sure why we have two complete sets of verb inflection templates, but we do.  You should have fun consolidating them.

 * One final note. Recent discussion has decided that the lemma (main entry form) for Latin verbs should be the first principal part (1st person singular present active indicative), just as it is for most Latin dictionaries.  This means that at some point, when all the necessary templates and such are avaialable, we'll need to do a massive restructuring of all the Latin verbs, so I'd make the new templates, keep information posted here, but wouldn't recommend making lots of article edits until everything is set to go.  It would be easier to make all the changes as a coordinated group than in a piecemeal fashion individually. --EncycloPetey 22:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Hi, I have redone the template la-conj-1st, and have added it to amo. At the moment it takes three arguments am|amāv|amāt, but it could be easily changed just to take am. What does anyone think? Conrad.Irwin 17:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Since Latin uses the first principal part as the lemma (instead of the infinitive as most modern languages), I think it would be better to have the participles and infinitives listed at the end of the table. This would leave the first principle part in the upper left corner and make it easier to connect the lemma form with the table. --EncycloPetey 12:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know if this will be of any use, but Medellia wrote a pretty nice conjugation template for Ancient Greek, which is a bit more similar to Latin. Template:grc-conj-έω.  Cerealkiller13 19:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, it's hidden, press show. Cerealkiller13 19:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * FWIW, Greek has more principal parts and more tenses than Latin does. --EncycloPetey 01:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Certainly it does, but it also has a whole bunch of infinitives and participles, as well as having PAI1S as the lemma form. 01:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Breves
From the page: "However, if the long vowels are marked, it is unnecessary to mark the short ones since any unmarked vowel will be short. On Wiktionary, breves should not be used either in the names of pages for Latin words, nor in any of the text associated with Latin entries."

This is silly for two reasons:
 * 1) The length of one vowel might be known, while the others are unknown.
 * 2) * This is especially likely in rare or mediaeval words, where it's possible only the length of the penult—i.e. the position of the accent—is known, if that. Causing any unmarked vowel to be interpreted as short can thus lead to error; the alternative is omission of known quantities, which is inadvisable.
 * 3) All vowels might be short.
 * 4) * In this case it is impossible to tell whether the vowels are null-marked as "short", or whether no vowel quantities have been given at all.

Adjective Labelling
I'm not sure if this is the proper place for this issue to be raised, and if not: my apologies. The "Latin adjectives" category is in dire need of clean-up as well as standardization. While I'm willing to take this on, I do have a minor policy-type question. How will pages on feminine/neuter forms (i.e. magna off of the magnus page) be categorized? It seems as if "Latin adjective forms" isn't really being used. Is there then some categorization that I neglected to notice, or does a decision need to be made? Medellia 15:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Welcome back! Adjectives in Latin haven't had their standrad format decided.  I had a go at albus, but it still lacks a table of comparative and superlative forms.  I really haven't decided how the various other (sub-lemma and non-lemma) forms ought to be tagged, as there will be a lot of them.  And since I am de facto the person assembling information on Latin entry style, the style guide section on adjectives has yet to be written.  Have you seen what is being done at Wiktionary:About Greek and Wiktionary:About Ancient Greek?  Since you were last here a lot of good ideas were assembled and collated into these two style guides.  I haven't checked adjective style in these articles yet, but there might be enough information that we wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, merely adapt it. --EncycloPetey 18:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Thank you! Ancient Greek seems to be using "Ancient Greek adjective forms," albeit sparingly. If there is no opposition, I propose we follow in suit with Latin. Medellia 18:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree. For categorization, the only question in my mind is whether we want separate Category:Latin comparative forms and Category:Latin superlative forms as subcategories of Category:Latin adjectives. By the way, I'm not happy with the way the entries for alba and album are done.  I'm not sure I made it clear that only the lemma form albus was what I had edited.  Why don't we use albus (and forms) as the test model for regular first/second declension adjectives?  We can make changes until we've worked out all the obvious issues.  That way we'll have a pattern to work from for the other entries.  --EncycloPetey 19:08, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Prior to now, I'd been doing a little something like this:
 * Adjective
 * album
 * But it does seem rather silly to have the nominative form simply listed by its gender. Perhaps some sort of template ought to be made such that the entry would instead look like this:
 * Adjective
 * album
 * Neuter nominative form of albus
 * Masculine accusative form of albus
 * Neuter accusative form of albus
 * Neuter vocative form of albus
 * Or, such that fewer modifications would have to be made, the nominative could simply be listed as:
 * Nominative form of albus
 * I assumed that you hadn't done those forms as they clearly aren't in line with what we're working towards! On a related note, are we still attempting to provide pages for non-lemma forms such as albārum? I would support separating comparative and superlative forms from the mix. The question, however, arises as to where to present that information as the presentation of such forms in English clearly won't work for Latin. Medellia 00:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Or, such that fewer modifications would have to be made, the nominative could simply be listed as:
 * Nominative form of albus
 * I assumed that you hadn't done those forms as they clearly aren't in line with what we're working towards! On a related note, are we still attempting to provide pages for non-lemma forms such as albārum? I would support separating comparative and superlative forms from the mix. The question, however, arises as to where to present that information as the presentation of such forms in English clearly won't work for Latin. Medellia 00:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Its the differences from English that make the other language entries more difficult to work out. Based on what's happeneing in Greek and Spanish entries, we need something like the second block of "definitions" you gave above.  However, the comparatives would have "comparative" added to the mix and ditto for superlatives.  And yes, we do eventually want entries for all the various inflected forms.  I think they'd be easier to do in bulk rather than individually.

 * I'm also uncertain how best to deal with substantive uses of adjectives. Clearly its important to have the substantive meanings in here; the problem is that our current POS header scheme doesn't really work for this.  I don't want to use a ===Noun=== header in these cases because they're not really nouns, even though they may function that way.  I've been thinking that a ===Substantive=== header or subheader might be used, but would like another opinion. --EncycloPetey 00:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As I recall, the issue of substantives was brought up when I was still actively editing, but never concluded satisfactorily. I would completely support its usage, though it would probably be best not to elevate it to a POS.
 * We also may want to consider situations in which the superlative takes on certain meanings (I'm unable to come up with an instance in Latin, but in Greek, for instance, the superlative of ἀγαθός changes depending on the situation); does the superlative then become some sort of a lemma? Medellia 01:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Sort of. We have cases like this in English, when the "plural" also functions with a new meaning.  In those cases, we get a sort of hybrid page that includes a "form of" link as well as a proper definition line.  Offhand I can't think of any Latin examples of this.

 * Do you think an inline (substantive) at the head of a substantive definition would work? We could set the template to automatically categorize the entry as a Category:Latin substantives or Category:Latin substantive adjective. --EncycloPetey 01:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That seems to be sufficient. I say give it a go and see what happens; if it seems to be working well, it can be added to the policy. Medellia 02:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Something minor to be considered: will we be putting inflection tables on comparative/superlative pages? Given that comparatives are second declension, I could see an inflection table being appreciated. Any thoughts? It would be good to get albior and albissimus, at the very least, completed for reference purposes. Medellia 00:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm beginning to think that highly inflected languages like Greek and Latin need to consider allowing for a sort of sub-lemma entry between lemma and non-lemma. I imagine that albus would be the lemma form with all the information about the positive forms, and links to comparative and superlative form sub-lemmata pages.  These sub-lemmata would have a basic definition (rather than just "form of" listings), a full inflection table for comparative (or superlative), and a link back to the lemma.  I can see the same sort of thing happening for verbs (with sub-lemmata pages for the 2nd-4th principal parts), though I'm less certain as to how that might work for verbs.  --EncycloPetey 01:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've set up a sample page for albior, but did not create the Category:Latin adjective comparatives until we've decided what category name to use. I can see using Category:Latin adjective comparatives for the masc/fem nominative singular sub-lemma, and using Category:Latin adjective comparative forms for the other inflected forms of the comparative.  Thoughts? --EncycloPetey 02:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree completely about the idea of a sub-lemma and am glad that you've chosen to go that route. While I agree that the m/f comp. nom. sing. forms should serve as the sub-lemma, it does seem a bit awkward to see comparative after adjective as I suppose I would be accustomed to seeing something the vein of Category:Latin comparative adjectives. Regardless of the actual name, it does seem that the m/f does need to be granted more gravity than albius. (On that note, my grammars have always listed the neuter comparative on the entry line. Any thoughts on following in suit?) Also, in regards to the declension business, it seems a bit misleading to call it second, though I understand that the positive form is first/second... hmm... Medellia 02:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That category name sounds more natural to me as well. The confounding issue is that we have Category:English adjective comparative forms.  Ideally, category names should be parallel across languages, but this might be a case where they won't be so tidy. I'm loathe to do that, since it probably means people will get confused and we'll end up with both categories existing.  Maybe we should get the Greek editors to weigh in, as this would affect them too. --EncycloPetey 02:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked the inflection line template to note that the lemma is m/f singular. As for including the neuter singular in the inflection line, I'm surprised that your grammars give an entry to the comparative form at all.  My dictionaries only do so for highly irregular comparatives.  Personally, I don't think it's necessary to inlcude given (a) the sub-lemma nature of the page and (b) the extreme regularly of almost all comparative adjectives. --EncycloPetey 02:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fine by me; the subject line is not exactly wieldy to begin with. As for the category forms, I'm a bit shocked on the English. It just sounds wrong. Parallelism, however, does seem to be the best option. Medellia 03:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok folks, I've got a sort of almost nearly working model of how I was thinking of doing things with Ancient Greek. Please take a look at ἴδιος, ἰδίως, ἰδιώτερος, and ἰδιώτατος. Bear in mind that ἰδιώτερος and ἰδιώτατος should have inflection tables, but I don't know how to do the inflection. I suppose that ἰδίως should possibly also have a comparative and a superlative, but.........man, I am just not up to this task (which is partially why I had put it off). What d'ya think? Atelaes 06:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll take care of the inflection tables tomorrow morning if you'd like, as I'm about to head off to bed. My suggestions would be to put links to the -τερος, -τατος forms somewhere on the page for the positive form and to make the bottom forms on the template (adv, comp, sup) not look as if they're in the sing/dual/plur columns. Other than that, looks good to me! Medellia 06:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd really like to keep them on the inflection template, as they're a normal component of most adjectives. Perhaps there is a way to set them off from the rest a bit better (I attempted to do so with the different coloring, but I can certainly see how confusion could arise from the current setup).  As for the inflection tables on the comparative & superlative, I'd greatly appreciate it.  The cause of my confusion is that Smyth says that the feminine nominative singular is -τερα (the terminal alpha is long, but I don't know how to put a makron over it).  But, I thought that accentuation rules didn't allow an accent on the antepenult with a long ultima.  Perhaps there is simply an exception here, or maybe I got the rules wrong, or perhaps there's an acute on the penult (making it τέρα) and Smyth is simply not showing it.......or perhaps fifty other possibilities.  So, yeah, if you know how to do it, please feel free.  Out of curiousity, may I ask what was so repulsive about Homer?  Don't tell anyone, but I've never even read an English translation of his works, much less the original Greek.  Shhhh!  I really need to rectify that.  Atelaes 07:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Take a look at what we do in Latin for verbs like labōrō. Those three "separate" conjugation tables you see are all done with a single template call.  (The intervening section headers are also from the template, but this is a Bad Idea that will need to be fixed.)  Something similar could be done on the Greek adjective template to link in the adverb, comparative, and superlative below the main table.
 * Also, does Greek have the same flexibility of meaning as Latin in the comparative? The Latin adjective albus "white" has comparative albior, but this word doesn't simply mean "whiter".  If you want to say "That wall is rather white," you would use the comparative.  I'm of the inclination therefore of having a translation on the page for Latin comparative adjectives of the sort: "whiter, rather white", rather tahn simply calling it the comparative form.  Does Greek have this samme issue? --EncycloPetey 15:13, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Before I forget, Latin also has a nasty habit of using the superlative as follows: "summus mons" doesn't mean "the highest mountain" but rather "the top of the mountain" (i.e. "the highest part of the mountain"). And of course, for its part, Greek has the "rather" "most" thing going on too. Medellia 17:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I have the feeling that I was still in complete finals stupor when I wrote that comment. I probably shouldn't say this, but I've been neglecting to insert macrons even when I know that a Greek vowel is long because they look so ugly. I want to say that the alpha is short, contrary to Smyth, as a long alpha in theory should have assimiliated to an eta in Attic. I don't have any text near me, but will check sometime after the sun rises. Just to double check with the new templates, we'll be using them on "sub-lemma" pages, right?
 * On the same note, there have been Latin words with long "y"s, but I refuse to use that letter as it looks hideous. And I suppose it's unfair to blame my issues with the epics on Homer... the biggest problem is that the stupid thing had so many weird dialects mashed into it by the time it was written down that I felt as if I were relearning Greek from scratch at times. That in conjunction with the facts that it was an impossible jump from Lysias and that I love the Aeneid for its complexity meant that it was a very frustrating read. Such is school. Medellia 10:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, I can imagine. Nearly every word I look at includes a section about "Homer uses such and such wacky form".  I may have to stick to the gospels until my abilities are a bit more advanced.  Any recommendations on good Classical works for beginners (sorry, I realize this isn't really "About Latin")?  Atelaes 09:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Etymology
Just to be clear, I'm not intending to open up the same can of worms as in the Beer Parlour (though I've been meaning to add my two cents to that discussion...). I have a minor question of preference. When Latin words actually descend from Greek, I'm inclined to list the etymology as "Transliterated form of x," whereas others have used "Romanized form." Is there a strong inclination either way? Medellia 07:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I would prefer to say "Romanized" because it's a more specific term than "transliterated"; however, I don't see a problem with either term. --EncycloPetey 19:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine by me! Thanks. Medellia 06:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Participle entries
To continue the string of questions: I couldn't find an example of an entry for a supine (aside from a very messy amātus) and was wondering how the Latin editors felt these ought to be approached, mainly in regards to POS headers. For instance, amātum needs to note that this form represents several cases; such information, however, seems completely inappropriate under the header "verb." Would there be trouble were this information to be put under the "adjective" header, or ought we consider adding to the list of POS? Medellia 06:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This is one question I've wrestled with but have not come to a wholly satisfactory answer. My leading inclination right now is to use a POS header of ===Participle=== for these entries.  The grammar and function of the participles is not satisfactorily covered either by the term verb or the term adjective.  Participles seem to lie in a middle ground between the two.  I feel similarly about infinitives, but not so strongly as I do for participles. From my limited experience in Greek, I'd suspect participles are a similar problem in that language. --EncycloPetey 15:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

As usual, Greek is equally troublesome. Italian uses "Verb form," but I really don't find that heading effective. I'll bring it up at the AG page, but this may end up heading to the BP just to get some more opinions on the matter. Glad to know we're on the same page! Medellia 17:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * OK. FYI, I keep both this page and the corresponding talk page for Ancient Greek on my Watchlist, so I'll see the discussion in either location. --EncycloPetey 17:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

and
Would anyone object if I changed the template to more resemble the. An example of what I would use can be found at. I would then replace all usage of  with. This would change all of these:

Into this:

Conrad.Irwin 20:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Changing the style to match the other templates would be great! I notice that the template is designed to collapse if the verb has no supine given. That seems like a good idea to me, though it would be nice if it displayed deponent verb following the parentheses in that case, just so people know it's intentional. Also, there are some preferred style tags normally included so that users can set their own display preferences, but we can worry about those later. --EncycloPetey 20:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Is there a Latin portal?
Is there a kind of Latin portal, a place where to discuss Latin entries that would be watched by those who care about Latin? I couldn't find anything like that.--Imz 22:51, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is it, or the closest thing we have here. There are only about four active Latin editors right now, so we tend to just post on each other's pages or come here to discuss issues. --EncycloPetey 01:11, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Fixing Latin links
From the main page I saw that ligatures, breves, macrons, and 'j's shouldn't show up in page titles or link targets. I scanned the last dump looking for these and came up with this list. I fixed the links w/ macrons or breves, but I'm not confident about how to fix the others. Should I replace all 'j's with 'i's in links/targest (even if the pages exists w/ 'j')? Should I change all ligatures to 'ae'/'oe' simarly? Also when using should I put lang=la for all, even those listed as Medieval/Late/Vulgar Latin? Thanks, sorry I don't know much about Latin. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the list. All the ligatures should be split, so you can do that.  The letter "j" is a little more complicated, because although the letter is not found in Classical Latin, it does appear in Medieval Latin and later forms.  I can take care of those myself.  --EncycloPetey 18:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Great, done. I updated the regexp so it picked up more stuff to correct. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 16:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi all,

I don't do Latin entries, so while I think we should take la-x-new as a Wiktionary-specific language code meaning "New Latin"/"Neo-Latin", together with template (styled after e.g. ), I don't want to infringe on the Latin template namespace by doing so without bringing it here first.

So, does anyone have any comments/objections/whatnot?

—Ruakh TALK 00:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

 * That would strike me as meaning it's the new version of a Latin template, not a template for entries in New Latin. I would rather see us create an internal use "ISO" template (the way we've done for other languages that have no ISO code) and do so in a way that makes other Latin periods possible as they are needed.  I'm beginning to think about Medieval Latin and the problems it poses.

 * That is, I would rather see something like and, instead of sticking "new" or whatever at the end of the template name.  This would match the file naming method on Commons (la-cls-word for Classical pronunciations; la-ecc-word for Ecclesiastical pronunciations).  This might also be worth discussing on MW and possibly Victionarium, since it would establish a code for New Latin. --EncycloPetey 04:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Re: "I would rather see us create an internal use 'ISO' template (the way we've done for other languages that have no ISO code)": Yes, that's what I'm proposing. The relevant standard (BCP 47, currently RFC 4646) specifies that all the private-use stuff should go after an x subcode, such as in x-fr-CH (which means "some language that's privately recognized") or en-x-US (which means "some form of English that's privately recognized"). If you think is misleading, how about we use  instead? (Inflection templates, if needed, would then be  and so on, though I really don't care about that stuff since I don't have the knowledge to help with it. :-P   My interest is mostly for use in  and  and so on.) —Ruakh TALK 13:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

 * P.S. I linked to the RFC, but if you're new to the details of language codes, I'd actually recommend you read W3C i18n article "Language tags in HTML and XML". (After that, if you want to know more, the RFC is a good thing to read next.) —Ruakh TALK 13:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Does your lack of reply mean "O.K., I have no more objections", or "Ruakh didn't understand my comment at all, and I'm not sure how to re-explain it", or "I still disagree, but don't want to argue about it", or "I forgot about this", or something else? —Ruakh TALK 00:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * It means I'm still working to be sure I understand the stated principles behind creating custom language codes. --EncycloPetey 02:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Ah, O.K. I'll be patient, then. :-) —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 03:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

an etymology, decompostion of a Latin word question
(Ok, if this is the place to discuss questions related to Latin.) What do you think about Talk:patrimony?--Imz 12:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I've posted your question to WT:TR to solicit more feedback. Rod (A. Smith) 17:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--Imz 22:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

absens
I've just found the absens entry in special:UncategorizedPages, but I don't know how to format or even categorise it. The most obvious category Category:Latin participles doesn't exist, and I don't know how to procede from there. Thryduulf 13:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Participles are the most difficult issue right now in Latin language entries. I haven't personally decided how I think they should be handled, and the other person I was originally having this conversation with (Medellia) isn't around these days.  My inclination is towards having a Category:Latin participles, but even that would still leave open the question of which particple(s) are lemmas and how the entry should be formatted.  Maybe mark it with  for now. --EncycloPetey 00:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tagged it as such for now, thanks. Thryduulf 00:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've set up some Participle templates now. You may refer to  and  and  as references of how to use them. --EncycloPetey 16:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The most commonly used Latin in species names
I've made this list of the most commonly used Latin (or pseudo-Latin) words used in species and genus names:

 * User:Pengo/Latin

If anyone's interested in creating the missing entries, that would be wonderful. Pengo 11:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Declension headers

 * (moved here from User talk:EncycloPetey and User talk:Frous)

By the way, what's the policy: in case of nouns and adjectives, should the header, under which all the forms of the word is given, be Declension or Inflection? -- Frous 18:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The policy on headers varies by language. The ELE notes are there to clarify that "Declension" is a term only used for Nouns and Adjectives, and "Conjugation" is only usable with Verbs.  The "Inflection" header is always a possibility, legitimate for either use.  And, as ELE notes, there are separate policy pages for languages other than English, and they often have more detailed instructions.  In some languages, the variant headers "Declension" and "Conjugation" are routinely used.  In others, it's always "Inflection", regardless of the part of speech.  For Latin, we've been using "Inflection" only because it reduces the number of different possible headers to worry about.  Latin has additional POS headers like "Participle", and for that situation (where it's a verb part, but inflects like an adjective), deciding which header to use will only give you a headache.  I don't think I've put that information on the WT:ALA page yet, but then again, there are many pieces of information missing from that page. --EncycloPetey 18:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

According to this, my edit would be correct, but why should the Latin entries use Inflections instead? Is there any plausible reason? :D -- Frous 18:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That section of ELE is only giving instructions about the sequence for ordering such headers, and is not prescribing which headers to use. It is simply noting that "Declension" or "Conjugation" (when they occur) are equivalent to "Inflection" for purposes of sequence, with a note about where they might appear. --EncycloPetey 18:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

<V> & <U>, yet <I> but not <J>…
It seems inconsistent to use for vocalic <v> but to disallow <j> for consonantal ''; wouldn’t it be better to make the useful distinction and to allow <j>, or otherwise to use only <v> in place of and <v>, for the sake of keeping the Classical spelling? I don’t really mind which, but what we have now isn’t really ideal IMO. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(<i>u''):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 14:47, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Headword, descendants and etymology
The headword of a Latin verb should be the first person singualar ind. act., i.e. sum (not esse), venio (not venire). That's OK. But does this really mean that French and Italian  should be listed in the Descendants section of ? And Italian or French  would end up as descendants of ? This might be very misleading for some readers, when they believe that venio and sum are the direct ancestors of venir and été (respectively). Etymologically this is far from correct. --MaEr 13:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Did you look at the section "Etymology of non-Latin words"? The etymology section recommendations should counter that misconception.

 * Descendants sections should link to lemma forms of their respective languages. The lemma form stands in as surrogate for the complete range of conjugations when it appears in Synonyms, Translations, Descendants, etc.   No one has ever worried about this problem for any of those sections.  That is, English "listen" does not actually translate to French écouter:, because "listen" is the present form (except for the 3rd-person singular).  The verb écouter means to listen, but we do not include the infinitive particle as a part of English verb page names. --EncycloPetey 17:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your answer. To be honest: I did not read the entire text -- I searched for the term Descendants and read the text close to the found occurrences.
 * The section Romance language verbs below Etymology of non-Latin words describes the path from (for instance) Italian to Latin. But I have a problem with the opposite direction, from Latin to Italian. Example: I have a list of modern Romance infinitives that stem from the Latin infinitive venire. Where should I put them?
 * In the Descendants section of Latin venire? That would be foolproof and intuitive.
 * Or in the Descendants section of venio? This could be misleading.
 * Modern English listen is an unproblematic example. Please have a look at the Etymology section of am and the Descendants section of eom. eom (not beon-wesan) has the descendant am. This is how I would do it. --MaEr 19:55, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

 * We have chosen not to do that because it makes it difficult for users to find the information they are looking for, and requires additional clicks and links to find information. Modern Romance verbs that descend from Latin verbs should have their lemma form listed on the Latin lemma form, regardless of which form is the lemma.  Doing this by individual verb form would produce needless repetition of content.  Forms of the verb "be" are exceptional, not a model for a general case.  The verb is highy irregular, just as it is in many IE languages. --EncycloPetey 22:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary talk:About Latin/Archive 1


text:
demonstrace

Noun

 * 1) demonstration public display of group opinion
 * účastníci demonstrace

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: demonstrace


text:
Euclidean domain

Etymology
So called because for such domains it is possible to apply the Euclidean algorithm in order to obtain greatest common divisors.

Noun

 * 1)  an  in which  with  is possible

title: Euclidean domain


text:
Template:dsb-decl-noun-1

Declension of a

title: Template:dsb-decl-noun-1


text:
demonstrovat

Verb

 * 1) to demonstrate to participate in or organize a public display of group opinion

title: demonstrovat


text:
linear form

Noun

 * 1)  A linear functional.
 * 2) * 1961 [Prentice-Hall], Richard A. Silverman (translator),, An Introduction to the Theory of Linear Spaces, 1974, Dover, page 66,
 * A more general linear form in the same space is the expression
 * $$f(x)=\sum_{k+1}^n {c_k \zeta_k}$$
 * with arbitrary fixed coefficients $$c_1, c_2\dots, c_n$$.
 * with arbitrary fixed coefficients $$c_1, c_2\dots, c_n$$.

Usage notes

 * The terms linear form and are semantically interchangeable. However, the former appears to emphasise that the entity is an algebraic structure, while the latter emphasises that it is a mapping. Thus, linear form is arguably more appropriate to linear algebra, and linear functional to functional analysis.

title: linear form


text:
Orwellianism

Alternative forms

 * Orwellism

Noun

 * 1) Orwellian systems or methods generally; totalitarian propaganda, surveillance, repression, etc.

Translations

 * Czech: orwellismus
 * German: Orwellismus
 * Polish:

title: Orwellianism


text: Orwellianisms

title: Orwellianisms


text:
demonstrieren

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to demonstrate to participate in or organize a public display of group opinion

title: demonstrieren


text:
bilinear form

Noun

 * 1)  A function of two arguments from the same vector space which maps onto a field of scalars, which acts like a linear form with respect to either one of its arguments when the other one is held constant.

title: bilinear form


text:
two-form

Noun

 * 1)  bilinear form

title: two-form


text:
Template:dsb-decl-noun-1/documentation

Usage
This template creates a declension table for Lower Sorbian feminine nouns belonging to classes 1, 1a, and 2 according to both Jannasch's Deutsch-niedersorbisches Wörterbuch/Słownik němsko-delnjoserbski and Starosta's Dolnoserbsko-nimski słownik/Niedersorbisch-deutsches Wörterbuch, hence the name.

Class 1 includes those feminine nouns ending in:
 * -ba
 * -fa
 * -ma
 * -na
 * -pa
 * -ra
 * -wa.

Class 1a includes those feminine nouns ending in
 * -tša
 * -dza.

Class 2 includes those feminine nouns ending in
 * -da
 * -zda
 * -cha
 * -ła
 * -ta
 * -sta.

The template takes two obligatory parameters:
 * the first part of the noun stem (i.e. all except the final stem consonant(s) and the -a)
 * the final consonant(s) before the -a (one of,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  , or  ). The second parameter is optional for class 1 nouns, but must be included for classes 1a and 2.

Thus, for a class 1 noun like, add:

Declension
or

Declension
For a class 1a noun like, add:

Declension
For a class 2 noun like, add:

title: Template:dsb-decl-noun-1/documentation


text:
Template:dsb-decl-noun-3

Declension of a

title: Template:dsb-decl-noun-3


text:
twixter

Noun

 * 1) A young adult who has yet to adopt typical adult behaviours.

title: twixter


text: twixters

title: twixters


text:
codocyte

Etymology
From

Noun

 * 1) A red blood cell with the appearance of a shooting target with a bullseye.

title: codocyte


text: codocytes

title: codocytes


text:
Mexican hat cell

Etymology
Referring to its shape, supposed to be like a sombrero seen from above.

Noun

 * 1) A codocyte.

title: Mexican hat cell


text:
Template:dsb-decl-noun-3/documentation

Usage
This template creates a declension table for Lower Sorbian feminine nouns ending in -ga, -zga, or -ka. This group is called class 3 in both Jannasch's Deutsch-niedersorbisches Wörterbuch/Słownik němsko-delnjoserbski and Starosta's Dolnoserbsko-nimski słownik/Niedersorbisch-deutsches Wörterbuch, hence the name.

It takes two obligatory parameters: For example, at, add:
 * the first part of the noun stem (i.e. all except the final stem consonant(s) and the -a)
 * the final consonant(s) before the -a (one of,  , or  ). The second parameter must be one of those three values, or an error message will appear.

title: Template:dsb-decl-noun-3/documentation


text:
nalbinding

Etymology
From, literally "needle-binding," from +.

Noun

 * 1) A fabric creation technique predating knitting and crochet, involving passing the full length of the working thread through each loop, and with separate lengths pieced together during the process.

Related terms

 * nalbound

title: nalbinding


text:
schôpyî

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1)  to itch
 * 2)  to scratch (an itching place)
 * 3)  to itch, to desire
 * 4)  to pinch, to swipe, to nick
 * 1)  to scratch (an itching place)
 * 2)  to itch, to desire
 * 3)  to pinch, to swipe, to nick
 * 1)  to pinch, to swipe, to nick
 * 1)  to pinch, to swipe, to nick

title: schôpyî


text:
Template:dsb-decl-noun-7

Declension of

title: Template:dsb-decl-noun-7


text:
Template:dsb-decl-noun-7/documentation

Usage
This template creates a declension table for Lower Sorbian feminine nouns belonging to classes 7, 8 and 9 in both Jannasch's Deutsch-niedersorbisches Wörterbuch/Słownik němsko-delnjoserbski and Starosta's Dolnoserbsko-nimski słownik/Niedersorbisch-deutsches Wörterbuch, hence the name.

Class 7 includes those feminine nouns ending in:
 * -sć
 * -j
 * -l
 * -ś
 * -ź.

Class 8 includes those feminine nouns ending in:
 * -m
 * -ń
 * -p
 * -ŕ
 * -w.

Class 9 includes those neuter nouns ending in
 * -c
 * -č
 * -s
 * -š
 * -z
 * -ž.

It takes one or two obligatory parameters, depending on the class. Class 9 nouns take a single parameter, the nominative singular of the noun. For class 7 and 8 nouns, the first parameter is the first part of the noun before the final consonant(s), and the second parameter is the final consonant(s) (one of,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,.

For example, for the class 7 word, add:

Declension
For example, for the class 8 word, add:

Declension
For the class 9 word, add:

title: Template:dsb-decl-noun-7/documentation


text: getrockneter

title: getrockneter


text: getrocknete

title: getrocknete


text: getrocknetes

title: getrocknetes


text: getrockneten

title: getrockneten


text: getrocknetem

title: getrocknetem


text:
Gitterenergie

Noun

 * 1) lattice energy

title: Gitterenergie


text:
Gitterparameter

Noun

 * 1) lattice parameter, lattice constant

title: Gitterparameter


text:
Glasindustrie

Noun

 * 1) glass industry

title: Glasindustrie


text:
bar de ambiente

Noun

 * 1) gay bar

title: bar de ambiente


text:
Glykogensynthasekinase

Noun

 * 1)  glycogen synthase kinase

title: Glykogensynthasekinase


text:
Graphit

Noun

 * 1) graphite form of carbon

title: Graphit


text:
kahvitus

Etymology
, from.

Noun

 * 1) an occasion of serving coffee, usually to a group of people

title: kahvitus


text: Grunde

title: Grunde


text:
qull

Etymology
From, from (compare 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬).

Noun

 * 1) mash, mush, pap

Verb

 * 1) to drench, to soak

Adjective

 * 1) soggy

title: qull


text:
usufructo

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) usufruct

title: usufructo


text: Gründen

title: Gründen


text:
bezrūpīgs

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) carefree not having, not paying attention to difficulties or worries
 * 2) lighthearted, careless not taking their duties seriously
 * 3) carefree typical of people who have no worries or concerns; not linked to worries or concerns
 * 1) lighthearted, careless not taking their duties seriously
 * 2) carefree typical of people who have no worries or concerns; not linked to worries or concerns
 * 1) carefree typical of people who have no worries or concerns; not linked to worries or concerns

title: bezrūpīgs


text:
Gummiindustrie

Noun

 * 1) rubber industry

title: Gummiindustrie


text:
tapersex

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) sex toy party

title: tapersex


text:
puticlub

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) brothel, whorehouse

title: puticlub


text:
pipiolo

Etymology
, constructed from and, the former from , ultimately onomatopoeic.

Noun

 * 1) kid (young person)
 * 2) newbie, noob, fledgling

Adjective

 * 1) young, junior

title: pipiolo


text:
gjyshe

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) grandmother
 * 2)  honorific term for an elderly woman

title: gjyshe


text:
avispilla

Etymology
From.

title: avispilla


text:
gigoló

Noun

 * 1) gigolo

title: gigoló


text:
sartenazo

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) a blow/hit with a saucepan

title: sartenazo


text:
bezrūpība

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) carefreeness the quality of one who is carefree, without worries

title: bezrūpība


text: bezrūpību

title: bezrūpību


text:
Talk:multidrug therapy

RFD
Sum of parts ("where" is a place). SemperBlotto (talk) 09:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, seems obvious to me what it means from its parts. I'd welcome any citations that show it to be anything but what it claims to be (therapy using multiple drugs). Mglovesfun (talk) 09:44, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Delete. Clearly sum of parts and nothing more. Equinox ◑ 00:10, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 10:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:multidrug therapy


text: bezrūpībā

title: bezrūpībā


text: bezrūpības

title: bezrūpības


text:
Talk:I don't use condoms

RFD
another phrasebook entry --Quemara (talk) 23:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. — Ungoliant (Falai) 23:48, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * redirect to I have AIDS -- Liliana • 06:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL, but seriously, delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:40, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - as above SemperBlotto (talk) 11:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. (This makes me think of I don't smoke cigarettes.) --Æ&Œ (talk) 01:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete for no other reason than our reputation. DAVilla 04:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Gone. Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 21:44, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:I don't use condoms


text: bezrūpībai

title: bezrūpībai


text:
chochete

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  pussy

title: chochete


text:
bezrūpīgums

Etymology
From (with  from  ).

Noun

 * 1) carefreeness the quality of one who is carefree, without worries
 * 2) lightheadedness, carelessness the quality of one who does not take his duties seriously
 * 1) lightheadedness, carelessness the quality of one who does not take his duties seriously

title: bezrūpīgums


text: bezrūpīgumu

title: bezrūpīgumu


text: bezrūpīgumam

title: bezrūpīgumam


text: bezrūpīguma

title: bezrūpīguma


text: bezrūpīgumā

title: bezrūpīgumā


text:
rūpēt

Etymology
See 🇨🇬. Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to worry, to cause worries
 * 2) to take care of, to look after something

title: rūpēt


text:
قصب سكر

Noun

 * 1) sugar cane

title: قصب سكر


text:
hreddian

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to save

title: hreddian


text:
مفتاح

Etymology
from the verb. Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) key to a door
 * 2) key on a piano or other keyboard instrument
 * 3)  key
 * 1)  key
 * 1)  key

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) key, an object designed to open and close a lock

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) key
 * 2) electrical switch

title: مفتاح


text:
ahreddian

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to save

title: ahreddian


text:
فاتحة

Etymology
Derived from the feminine form of of the verb.

Noun

 * 1) start, beginning, commencement
 * 2) preface, preamble, introduction

title: فاتحة


text:
افتتاحية

Etymology 1
.

Noun

 * 1)  an editorial, a leading article;
 * 2)  overture

title: افتتاحية


text:
افتتاحي

Adjective

 * 1) preliminary, precursory
 * 2) initiatory
 * 3) inaugural

title: افتتاحي


text:
افتتاح

Noun

 * 1) opening, introduction, inauguration, commencement, the starting off or beginning a thing
 * 1) opening, introduction, inauguration, commencement, the starting off or beginning a thing

Descendants

 * borrowed Hindustani:
 * borrowed Hindustani:
 * borrowed Hindustani:

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) opening, introduction, inauguration, commencement, the starting off or beginning a thing

title: افتتاح


text:
فاشي

Adjective

 * 1) fascist

Noun

 * 1) fascist

title: فاشي


text:
maolagán

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) person with cropped hair, croppy
 * 2) stupid (little) fellow

title: maolagán


text:
-agán

Etymology
From, equivalent to 🇰🇲.

Usage notes

 * This affix is productive in Modern Irish. It forms masculine nouns of the first declension.

title: -agán


text:
raižpilni

Adverb

 * 1) worried, full of worries, worriedly;

title: raižpilni


text:
raizīgi

Adverb

 * 1) worried, worrying, worriedly;

title: raizīgi


text:
gādīgi

Adverb

 * 1) caring, caringly, with care;

title: gādīgi


text:
uibheagán

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) omelette

title: uibheagán


text:
contrabandier

Etymology
From.

Pronunciation

Noun

 * 1) smuggler

title: contrabandier


text:
rūpīgi

Adverb

 * 1) caring, attentive, careful, caringly, attentively, carefully;

title: rūpīgi


text:
bezrūpīgi

Adverb

 * 1) carefree, without worries;

title: bezrūpīgi


text:
diúilicín

Noun

 * 1) mussel
 * 2) shrimp small person

title: diúilicín


text: Category:ga:Seafood

title: Category:ga:Seafood


text:
prótein

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Noun

 * 1) protein

title: prótein


text:
efnasamband

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  compound, chemical compound

title: efnasamband


text:
nebēdīgi

Adverb

 * 1) carefree, cheerful, playful, carefreely, cheerfully, playfully;

title: nebēdīgi


text:
Citations:pofavo

 * 2004 December 8, Re: una cuentita gmail pofavo !!!, in, Usenet

title: Citations:pofavo


text:
adréchi

Etymology
From, from +.

Verb

 * 1)  to address

title: adréchi


text:
nebēdnīgi

Adverb

 * 1) mischievous, playful, mischievously, playfully;

title: nebēdnīgi


text:
accourchi

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1)  to shorten

title: accourchi


text:
affêtchi

Verb

 * 1)  to thicken

title: affêtchi


text:
gaumīgi

Adverb

 * 1) tasteful, tastefully;

title: gaumīgi


text:
aîdgi

Etymology
From, from , present active infinitive of.

Verb

 * 1)  to help

title: aîdgi


text:
alleunmer

Etymology
From, from. Compare 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1)  to light

title: alleunmer


text:
appraichi

Etymology
From, from , a verb based on.

Verb

 * 1)  to approach

title: appraichi


text:
garšīgi

Adverb

 * 1) tasty, tastily, with appetite;

title: garšīgi


text:
assauter

Etymology
From, , from , variant of , or from the verb , from , , from + ,.

Verb

 * 1)  to assault

title: assauter


text:
assiégi

Etymology
From, from , from Classical.

Verb

 * 1)  to besiege, lay siege to

title: assiégi


text: vājdzirdīgi

title: vājdzirdīgi


text:
përdaj

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to divide up, share
 * 2) to distribute
 * 3) to scatter

title: përdaj


text:
ndaj

Etymology
Intensive.

Verb

 * 1) to divide, separate two or more things or people that are together or mixed
 * 2) to limit, separate, confine from something
 * 3) to separate a person from their spouse, to cut off from someone
 * 4)  to keep something separate, refusing to unite two or more things or people (usually in a negative sense)
 * 5) to break something into parts from a whole
 * 6) to share, to divide something between multiple people giving a piece each
 * 7) to put things into different places
 * 8)  to share a happenstance or feeling with someone, relate a happy or sad story
 * 9) to put aside or save for someone or something; to designate
 * 10) to wean a baby from breast-feeding
 * 11)  it's far away for a specified time
 * 12)  to schedule, create deadline
 * 13)  to give continuously
 * 14)  to decide
 * 15)  to figure out, solve
 * 16)  to discern, make out, distinguish (usually in a negative sense)
 * 17)  to differentiate
 * 18)  to separate corn cobs
 * 1) to put things into different places
 * 2)  to share a happenstance or feeling with someone, relate a happy or sad story
 * 3) to put aside or save for someone or something; to designate
 * 4) to wean a baby from breast-feeding
 * 5)  it's far away for a specified time
 * 6)  to schedule, create deadline
 * 7)  to give continuously
 * 8)  to decide
 * 9)  to figure out, solve
 * 10)  to discern, make out, distinguish (usually in a negative sense)
 * 11)  to differentiate
 * 12)  to separate corn cobs
 * 1)  to give continuously
 * 2)  to decide
 * 3)  to figure out, solve
 * 4)  to discern, make out, distinguish (usually in a negative sense)
 * 5)  to differentiate
 * 6)  to separate corn cobs
 * 1)  to figure out, solve
 * 2)  to discern, make out, distinguish (usually in a negative sense)
 * 3)  to differentiate
 * 4)  to separate corn cobs
 * 1)  to differentiate
 * 2)  to separate corn cobs
 * 1)  to separate corn cobs

title: ndaj


text: kurli

title: kurli


text:
attatchi

Etymology
From (compare 🇨🇬).

Verb

 * 1)  to attack
 * 2)  to attach

title: attatchi


text:
kursli

Adverb

 * 1)  deaf, deafly;

title: kursli


text: nedzirdīgi

title: nedzirdīgi


text:
dzirdīgi

Adverb

 * 1) hearing;

title: dzirdīgi


text:
aûgouaithe

Verb

 * 1)  to drill

title: aûgouaithe


text:
Fakkanci

Proper noun

 * 1) A Niger-Congo language of Nigeria.

title: Fakkanci


text:
Citations:Fakkanci

 * 1989, in the Papers of the Usmanu Danfodiyo University Department of History seminar series, page 58, also printed in 1990, in Studies in the history of the people of Zuru Emirate, page 48:
 * The languages are Banganci (Bg), Clela (Cl), Dukkanci (Dk) and Fakkanci (Fk). The genetic relationship of these languages had been adequately established by such authoritative sources as Greeberg and Voegeling.

 * 2001, Francis O. Egbokhare, Language clusters of Nigeria on the basis of mutual intelligibility ISBN 1919799613, page 42:
 * 74. North Central Sub Group  Atem, Berom, Cara.
 * 75. Northern Group  Gwamhi-Wuri, Hun-Saare, Kag Cluster (Fakkanci and its dialects), Lela.
 * 76. Northern Jos Group  Buji-Gusu-Jere-Ibunu, Duguzu, Iguta, Janji,

 * 2002, Francis O. Egbokhare, S. Oluwole Oyetade, Harmonization and standardization of Nigerian languages ISBN 1919799702, page 67:
 * There is a cluster referred to as the Kag cluster, comprising the following: Kag (Fakkani) Fer, Ker (Kelanci) Jiir (Gelanci), Koor, Roor, Us and Zuksun (Crozier and Blench (1992), Kag (Fakkanci) is the main member of the cluster

title: Citations:Fakkanci


text:
atchiêsci

Etymology
From (compare 🇨🇬), from  +, from.

Verb

 * 1)  to accept

title: atchiêsci


text: raižpilnu

title: raižpilnu


text: raizīgu

title: raizīgu


text: gādīgu

title: gādīgu


text: rūpīgu

title: rūpīgu


text: bezrūpīgu

title: bezrūpīgu


text: nebēdīgu

title: nebēdīgu


text: nebēdnīgu

title: nebēdnīgu


text: gaumīgu

title: gaumīgu


text: garšīgu

title: garšīgu


text: vājdzirdīgu

title: vājdzirdīgu


text:
kurlu

Noun

 * 1) kangaroo (red, female)

title: kurlu


text: kurslu

title: kurslu


text: nedzirdīgu

title: nedzirdīgu


text: dzirdīgu

title: dzirdīgu


text: raižpilna

title: raižpilna


text: raizīga

title: raizīga


text: picietl

title: picietl


text:
de jour

Etymology
Variation of ', from ', "of the day" (French de jour means "for daytime" or "during daytime").

Adjective

 * 1)  Contemporary or most recent; en vogue; trendy.

Adverb

 * 1) during the day, by day

title: de jour


text:
haardroger

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) hairdryer

title: haardroger


text:
arrastão

Etymology 1
From, from.

Noun

 * 1)  trawling fishing technique in which a net is dragged
 * 2)  trawler fishing boat that uses a trawl net or dragnet
 * 3)  dragnet net dragged across the bottom of a body of water
 * 4) the act of violently dragging something
 * 5) a form of crime, occurring in Brazil, in which a group of criminals surround a location (usually a beach or tunnel) and steal every object in it
 * 1) the act of violently dragging something
 * 2) a form of crime, occurring in Brazil, in which a group of criminals surround a location (usually a beach or tunnel) and steal every object in it
 * 1) a form of crime, occurring in Brazil, in which a group of criminals surround a location (usually a beach or tunnel) and steal every object in it

title: arrastão


text:
beleño

Etymology
From, from (Pseudo-Aristotle, De plantis, 7.821); akin to 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬. Related to.

Noun

 * 1) henbane plant

title: beleño


text: beleños

title: beleños


text: gādīga

title: gādīga


text:
veleño

Adjective

 * 1) of or from

Noun

 * 1) someone from

title: veleño


text: veleños

title: veleños


text: rūpīga

title: rūpīga


text: bezrūpīga

title: bezrūpīga


text: nebēdīga

title: nebēdīga


text: nebēdnīga

title: nebēdnīga


text: gaumīga

title: gaumīga


text: garšīga

title: garšīga


text: vājdzirdīga

title: vājdzirdīga


text: kursla

title: kursla


text: nedzirdīga

title: nedzirdīga


text: dzirdīga

title: dzirdīga


text:
эскарго

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) escargot

title: эскарго


text:
raižpilnā

Adjective

title: raižpilnā


text:
гну

Etymology
Borrowed from, from.

Noun

 * 1) gnu, wildebeest,

Etymology 1
.

Noun

 * 1) gnu, wildebeest

Noun

 * 1) gnu, wildebeest

title: гну


text:
raizīgā

Adjective

title: raizīgā


text:
барбекю

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) barbecue

Etymology
, from, from.

Noun

 * 1)  (cooking instrument)

title: барбекю


text:
гризли

Noun

 * 1) grizzly bear

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) grizzly bear

title: гризли


text: psithurisma

title: psithurisma


text:
gādīgā

Adjective

title: gādīgā


text:
rūpīgā

Adjective

title: rūpīgā


text:
цаошу

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) grass script, caoshu, tsao shu a style of cursive script used in Chinese calligraphy

title: цаошу


text:
bezrūpīgā

Adjective

title: bezrūpīgā


text:
nebēdīgā

Adjective

title: nebēdīgā


text:
nebēdnīgā

Adjective

title: nebēdnīgā


text:
gaumīgā

Adjective

title: gaumīgā


text:
gardā

Adjective

title: gardā


text:
garšīgā

Adjective

title: garšīgā


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/mōtą

Etymology
From. Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) meeting

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/mōtą


text:
vājdzirdīgā

Adjective

title: vājdzirdīgā


text:
ananse

Noun

 * 1) spider

Usage notes
This term is used in both African Akan and Kromanti.

title: ananse


text:
kurlā

Adjective

title: kurlā


text: kurslā

title: kurslā


text:
nedzirdīgā

Adjective

title: nedzirdīgā


text:
dzirdīgā

Adjective

title: dzirdīgā


text: raižpilnas

title: raižpilnas


text: raizīgas

title: raizīgas


text:
ܠܒܫܐ

Etymology 1
From the root related to clothing; compare 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) wearing
 * 2) garment, clothing
 * 3) * Peshitta, Matthew 24:18:
 * "syc"

- ܘܐܝܢܐ ܕܒܚܩܠܐ ܗܘ: ܠܐ ܢܬܗܦܟ ܠܒܣܬܪܗ ܠܡܣܒ ܠܒܫܗ.

Etymology 2
From the root related to clothing; compare 🇨🇬.

Adjective

 * 1) armed, armoured, mailed, breastplated, cuirassed

Noun

 * 1)  armed soldier

title: ܠܒܫܐ


text: gādīgas

title: gādīgas


text:
Category:Maroon Spirit Language

 * For words in the Kromanti lect, see Category:Kromanti Akan.

title: Category:Maroon Spirit Language


text:
Talk:ananse

"Cognate to"? Isn't the Kromanti derived from the Akan (which is a macrolanguage anyway)? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 04:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure. The reference I cited speaks of "examples from Kromanti and its [sic] reflexes in the contemporary Ghanaian language Akan" before listing anansi as the word for spider in both languages. A word that is derived from or is the source of another word is still "cognate to" it, isn't it? But change it if you like. - -sche (discuss) 04:37, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:ananse


text:
ܠܦܛܐ

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  small coin, obolus, farthing

title: ܠܦܛܐ


text: ܠܗܦܛܐ

title: ܠܗܦܛܐ


text:
cajolerie

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) cuddling, hugging
 * 2)  cajolery

title: cajolerie


text:
Template talk:alv-kro

FWIW, Bilby describes Kromanti as "not a functioning language, but rather a highly fragmentary ritual 'language' consisting of a number of set phrases and expressions". I don't think that disqualifies it from having a code and entries, though. Consider that we have a code for and entries in Pictish and Khazar! - -sche (discuss) 04:29, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But Pictish and Khazar are more clearly distinguished. I'm beginning to have second thoughts; perhaps we can shove it under after all. Depends how much the orthography varies, really. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 04:39, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * True. Storch repeats the following extremely short wordlist from Alleyne: paki (K), apaki (A) [small calabash]; kamfo (K), nkamfo (A) [type of yam]; anansi (K), anansi (A) [spider]; aprako (K), prako (A) [yam]. I'll see if I can find more examples. - -sche (discuss) 04:55, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I was so focussed on whether or not to distinguish Kromanti from MSL that I wasn't thinking of whether to distinguish it from anything else. (I need to take a wikibreak.) An analogy between Kromanti vis-à-vis Akan and liturgical Latin formulae vis-à-vis the Latin Romans spoke seems appropriate. - -sche (discuss) 05:15, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the analogy breaks down in that Ecclesiastical Latin tends to respect Classical orthography but diverge in phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, whereas Kromanti seems to keep the grammar and vocabulary conservatively but show slow phonological shifts marked in the orthography. I only hope that you come back soon if you do decide to do that. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:30, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've now merged the one Kromanti entry I had created, deleted the category and left a note on Template talk:ak. - -sche (discuss) 05:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

New problem: what if there are English (or maybe Patwa) words derived specifically from this dialect? If Kromanti: is created and gets an etymology, it will probably point back to Kromanti, I would assume. Do we need an etyl: code? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I suppose it can't hurt to have one. - -sche (discuss) 06:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * And as you may have noticed, I created . —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Template talk:alv-kro


text:
полицай

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) police officer, policeman

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1)  collaborationist auxiliary policeman working for the Nazi German occupation forces during World War II
 * 2)  cop police officer

title: полицай


text:
ܢܘܡܪܐ

Etymology
From or directly from its source,.

Noun

 * 1)  number
 * 2)  cohort, troop division, army column
 * 1)  cohort, troop division, army column

title: ܢܘܡܪܐ


text:
Reconstruction:Latin/metipsimus

Etymology
From +. Cf. the development of.

Adjective

 * 1) same

Descendants

 * Italo-Romance:
 * North Italian:
 * Gallo-Italic:
 * Old
 * Gallo-Romance:
 * Old Franco-Provençal: meïsmo
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Old
 * Gallo-Romance:
 * Old Franco-Provençal: meïsmo
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Old
 * Gallo-Romance:
 * Old Franco-Provençal: meïsmo
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Gallo-Romance:
 * Old Franco-Provençal: meïsmo
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Gallo-Romance:
 * Old Franco-Provençal: meïsmo
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Ibero-Romance:
 * Ibero-Romance:

title: Reconstruction:Latin/metipsimus


text:
ܡܢܚܝ

Etymology
From +, absolute form of.

Adverb

 * 1) next year

title: ܡܢܚܝ


text:
鯨肉

Noun

 * 1) whalemeat

Noun

 * 1) whalemeat

title: 鯨肉


text:
之前

Noun

 * 1) before; in front of; ahead of
 * 2)  before; previously
 * 1)  before; previously
 * 1)  before; previously
 * 1)  before; previously

title: 之前


text:
之上

Postposition

 * 1) above

title: 之上


text:
之下

Postposition

 * 1)  below; under; beneath

title: 之下


text: Category:Mauritian Creole invariable verbs


text:
ticketer

Noun

 * 1)  a person responsible for ticket issue.
 * 2) A burnisher.

title: ticketer


text:
Template talk:ak

Kromanti (Koromanti, Coromanti, Cromanti, Coromantee, Koromantee), which briefly had the exceptional code alv-kro, is tentatively included under this code (as ==Akan==), distinguished using and. See Template talk:alv-kro. - -sche (discuss) 05:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Template talk:ak


text:
Template talk:cpe-mar

Kromanti
For discussion of Kromanti, see Template talk:alv-kro. - -sche (discuss) 05:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:cpe-mar
Google Books (once you click through, of course) suggests that Kromanti: is in fact the most common name of this language. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 09:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The situation is confusing. My limited understanding is that some authorities treat Kromanti as being the Maroon Spirit Language, while others consider it separate. The former group treats English-like expressions during Spirit ceremonies as Jamaican Creole English, while members of the latter group treat such expressions as MSL proper, and either accept/tolerate the claim that Kromanti is an African language or treat it as a constructed lect (possibly cognisable as a specialised jargon within MSL like Rotwelsch within German). Bilby (1983) gives examples of both:
 * MSL: Yes [yes], bigi [big] suma [one], da [this] nyũman [man] ya [here] bin [came, lit. been] fram [from] big ĩsho [sea, lit. big smth.], bot [but] afa [after] im [he, lit. him] bin [came, lit. been] a [to] yangkungku [maroon] pre [place], grãfa [grandfather], da [this] man [man] de [is] a [a] manis [man] ...
 * Kromanti: wiakwamba, denko na mi fremili ... wiakwamba, grãfa shukumse
 * - -sche (discuss) 10:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That is an unfortunate occurrence. I suspect that the Englishy portions of the so-called MSL corpus could be assigned to Patwa without any loss, however. The semi-attested lect with Niger-Congo languages as its lexifier is Kromanti. However, some sources seem to claim that out of these two unrelated creoles used during spirit possession, both are languages in their own right, and the MSL proper is closer to Sranan than to local Patwa. We do need to decide which of these is to be represented by the code, however, and how to handle the other one. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the authorities who use the name "Maroon Spirit Language" seem to use it (mostly?) for the English-y lect. And the authorities who use "Kromanti" use it (mostly?) for the African-y lect, whether they treat the African-y lect as part (with the English-y lect) of "Maroon Spirit Language", treat both as languages, or treat the English-y lect as Patwa or Sranan. Therefore, I think it would be confusing to use "Kromanti" as the name of the English-y lect or of any unification of the English-y and African-y lects. And is a made-up code named specifically for Maroon Spirit Language. Therefore, to the extent that African-y Kromanti should be separate from English-y MSL (and we and 2 of the 3 camps of linguists seem to agree it should be separate), I suggest we make a brand new code for it, like  or . Then, we can debate whether to merge  with  or . - -sche (discuss) 20:26, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I'm trying to widen my creolistic experience, I don't feel like I can make a value judgment on whether should be kept, so we probably shouldn't mess with it. As for Kromanti, I think it's a bit creole-y but arguably, it ought to be considered a Kwa language  like Akan, the macrolanguage it is sometimes considered a part of. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 20:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That sounds good to me. We can always merge cpe-mar with jam/srn later, if it becomes apparent that's appropriate. For now, I'll create a few entries from Bilby's list. - -sche (discuss) 03:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, suggesting for Kromanti was a total brain-fart on my part. I'm glad you caught that! It is indeed not a creole. - -sche (discuss) 03:09, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Template:alv-kro. - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Striking as suitably figured out. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 04:02, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Template talk:cpe-mar


text:
mo kontan twa

Phrase

 * 1) I love you

title: mo kontan twa


text: Category:Mauritian Creole phrases

title: Category:Mauritian Creole phrases


text:
aprako

Etymology
Cognate to African 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1)  pig

title: aprako


text:
Moris

Etymology
From.

title: Moris


text:
kamfo

Etymology
Cognate to African 🇨🇬.

title: kamfo


text:
Category:Kromanti Akan

Akan terms used in Kromanti, a ritual form of Akan used by in conjunction with the English-based creole Maroon Spirit Language.

title: Category:Kromanti Akan


text:
Talk:paveo

Latin etymology
Can we get the Latin etymology? Thanks Jackwolfroven (talk) 06:09, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no idea, but the standard practice is to add to the entry where an etymology would go to attract somebody's attention, or to bring it up at the WT:Etymology scriptorium. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:14, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Given that Lewis and Short have 'etym. dub.; perh. akin with pavio' I think not

title: Talk:paveo


text: Category:Maroon Spirit Language nouns

title: Category:Maroon Spirit Language nouns


text:
పెద్దపండుగ

Noun

 * 1)  big festival.
 * 2) the harvest festival of Pongal.

title: పెద్దపండుగ


text:
kreol

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) A creole language.

Proper noun

 * 1)  Mauritian Creole

title: kreol


text:
పండుగ

Noun

 * 1) a festival, feast, festivity.

title: పండుగ


text:
morisien

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Mauritian

Noun

 * 1) Mauritian

title: morisien


text: morisyen

title: morisyen


text: Category:Maroon Spirit Language terms derived from English


text: Category:Maroon Spirit Language terms derived from Germanic languages


text: Category:Maroon Spirit Language terms derived from Indo-European languages


text: Category:Maroon Spirit Language terms derived from other languages


text: Category:English terms derived from Kromanti


text:
Wiktionary:About Mauritian Creole

Mauritian Creole (ISO code mfe) is a French-based creole spoken chiefly in Mauritius and nearby islands in the Indian Ocean. This page documents common practices and standards used across Wiktionary in entries for this language.

Entry structure and templates
Entries should follow WT:ELE in general structure, using for every part of speech except verbs, discussed below. Etymologies will generally be from French and should be formatted thus (from ):

Etymology
From.

Entries which begin in a z- but are derived from a French word that does not start in are advised to use.

Verbs
Verbs are easily the most complex type of word in Mauritian Creole, and require their own headword line template,. It requires one unnamed parameter.
 * For normal verbs with medial forms, supply it with the medial form (if it is not the same as the lemma minus the final -e, it will be automatically be categorised in Category:Mauritian Creole irregular verbs)
 * For auxiliary verbs, supply it with aux (Category:Mauritian Creole auxiliary verbs)
 * For verbs that do not have a different medial form, supply it with the page name (Category:Mauritian Creole invariable verbs)

The medial forms are classified as verb forms and use. Their format follows thus (from ):

Verb

Note that although there is a hyphenated reduplicative form (e.g. koz-koze), this is considering to be the "sum of its parts", namely the medial form followed by the lemma form, and thus not inclusible unless it has an idiomatic meaning independent of an intensifying or frequentative meaning.

Orthography
A standard orthography similar to that used in the latest Diksioner Morisien is used. This orthography includes the following attributes for lemma entries:
 *  instead of
 *  instead of  (diksioner morisien not diksyoner morisyen)
 * No diacritical marks whatsoever
 * No Frenchified spellings ( not )
 * The definite article expressed as a hyphenated suffix, not part of the word (kisann-la not kisanla)

Spellings that do not follow this standard may be included if they are citeable. The format of an alternative spelling should look like this (from ):

Attestation
As a language with limited documentation, only one use or mention is necessary to cite a term. If the validity of a term is doubted, WT:RFV can be used.

Terms should display the template if they use less than three uses to verify an entry, which produces the following output:

title: Wiktionary:About Mauritian Creole


text:
Sankranti

Noun

 * 1)  The transmigration of the Sun from one Rāshi (constellation of the zodiac) to the next.
 * There are 12 Sankrantis in a year.

Related terms

 * Makar Sankranti
 * Mesha Sankranti

title: Sankranti


text:
మకరసంక్రాంతి

Noun

 * 1)  the period of the passage of the Sun into the sign of the Capricorn.
 * 2) the Hindu harvest festival Sankranti.

title: మకరసంక్రాంతి


text:
이글

Etymology
+.

title: 이글


text:
మేషసంక్రాంతి

Noun

 * 1)  the period of the passage of the Sun into the sign of the Aries.

title: మేషసంక్రాంతి


text:
సంక్రమణము

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) going or coming together, concurrence, going or passing through, transit, transition, passage.
 * 2)  The passage of the Sun or planetary body from one sign of the zodiac into another.
 * 3)  The process of change from one form, state, style or place to another.

title: సంక్రమణము


text: rūpīgas

title: rūpīgas


text: User:Enquire

title: User:Enquire


text: bezrūpīgas

title: bezrūpīgas


text: nebēdīgas

title: nebēdīgas


text: nebēdnīgas

title: nebēdnīgas


text: సంక్రమణం

title: సంక్రమణం


text: gaumīgas

title: gaumīgas


text:
సంక్రమించు

Verb

 * 1) to come together, to go along with, meet.
 * 2) to go near, approach.
 * 3) to pass through, traverse.
 * 4) to enter.
 * 5) to enter a constellation.

title: సంక్రమించు


text: garšīgas

title: garšīgas


text: vājdzirdīgas

title: vājdzirdīgas


text: kurlas

title: kurlas


text: kurslas

title: kurslas


text: nedzirdīgas

title: nedzirdīgas


text: dzirdīgas

title: dzirdīgas


text:
అనులోమానుపాతము

Noun

 * 1)  direct proportion

title: అనులోమానుపాతము


text:
raižpilnās

Adjective

title: raižpilnās


text:
raizīgās

Adjective

title: raizīgās


text:
విలోమానుపాతము

Noun

 * 1)  inverse proportion

title: విలోమానుపాతము


text:
gādīgās

Adjective

title: gādīgās


text:
rūpīgās

Adjective

title: rūpīgās


text:
bezrūpīgās

Adjective

title: bezrūpīgās


text:
విలోమము

Adjective

 * 1) against the grain or hair, inverse, reverse, opposite, out of the usual or proper course or way, turned the wrong way or backward.
 * 2) produced in the reverse order.

title: విలోమము


text:
halogenhaltig

Adjective

 * 1)  halogenated

title: halogenhaltig


text:
nebēdīgās

Adjective

title: nebēdīgās


text:
nebēdnīgās

Adjective

title: nebēdnīgās


text:
gaumīgās

Adjective

title: gaumīgās


text:
అనులోమము

Adjective

 * 1) regular, successive, in regular, or natural order.
 * 2) along or with the hair or grain.

title: అనులోమము


text:
gardās

Adjective

title: gardās


text:
garšīgās

Adjective

title: garšīgās


text:
handhaben

Etymology
From (1349). The earliest sense is “to keep, protect, maintain”, hence eventually a loan translation of and/or. The possible French origin and the earlier attestation of (1286) and  (1330) suggest that the word may have been borrowed through these. The Germanic formation must be denominal, which is particularly obvious in the northern languages (where the verb “to have” is hebben), but is also seen in High German from the invariably regular conjugation. The nominal element may be, from , (also 🇨🇬;  only attested 1490), but the semantics seem problematic. Alternatively a new compound from hant +, ; cf. (“stolen good”, ca. 1350).

Verb

 * 1) to handle, wield, manipulate
 * 2) to manage, control, operate
 * 3)  to protect someone; to enforce their rights

title: handhaben


text:
vājdzirdīgās

Adjective

title: vājdzirdīgās


text:
kurlās

Adjective

title: kurlās


text:
రోమము

Alternative forms
,

Noun

 * 1)  hair (in general)
 * 2) hair on the body except on the head and face.
 * 3) wool.

title: రోమము


text: kurslās

title: kurslās


text:
nedzirdīgās

Adjective

title: nedzirdīgās


text:
Hauptlinie

Noun

 * 1) mainline

title: Hauptlinie


text: లోమము

title: లోమము


text:
dzirdīgās

Adjective

title: dzirdīgās


text: raižpilnam

title: raižpilnam


text: raizīgam

title: raizīgam


text: gādīgam

title: gādīgam


text:
Hautkontakt

Noun

 * 1) skin contact

title: Hautkontakt


text: rūpīgam

title: rūpīgam


text: Heliumisotopen

title: Heliumisotopen


text: bezrūpīgam

title: bezrūpīgam


text: nebēdīgam

title: nebēdīgam


text: nebēdnīgam

title: nebēdnīgam


text:
Herabsetzung

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) decrease, reduction, lowering
 * 2) disparagement, belittling
 * 3) depreciation
 * 1) depreciation

title: Herabsetzung


text: gaumīgam

title: gaumīgam


text: gardam

title: gardam


text: garšīgam

title: garšīgam


text: vājdzirdīgam

title: vājdzirdīgam


text: kurlam

title: kurlam


text:
herstellbar

Adjective

 * 1) producible, manufacturable, contrivable

title: herstellbar


text: kurslam

title: kurslam


text: nedzirdīgam

title: nedzirdīgam


text: dzirdīgam

title: dzirdīgam


text: hervorragender

title: hervorragender


text: hervorragenderer

title: hervorragenderer


text: hervorragendere

title: hervorragendere


text: hervorragenderes

title: hervorragenderes


text: hervorragenderen

title: hervorragenderen


text: hervorragenderem

title: hervorragenderem


text: hervorragendster

title: hervorragendster


text: hervorragendste

title: hervorragendste


text: hervorragendstes

title: hervorragendstes


text: hervorragendsten

title: hervorragendsten


text: hervorragendstem

title: hervorragendstem


text: hervorragende

title: hervorragende


text: hervorragendes

title: hervorragendes


text: hervorragenden

title: hervorragenden


text: hervorragendem

title: hervorragendem


text: raižpilnām

title: raižpilnām


text: raizīgām

title: raizīgām


text:
heterotyp

Adjective

 * 1) heterotypic

title: heterotyp


text: gādīgām

title: gādīgām


text: rūpīgām

title: rūpīgām


text: bezrūpīgām

title: bezrūpīgām


text:
күргәҙмә

Etymology
From, from.

Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) exhibition, show
 * 2) exposition, display
 * 1) exposition, display

Adjective

 * 1) visual, graphic, graphic, illustrative

title: күргәҙмә


text:
Herzrhythmusstörung

Noun

 * 1) cardiac arrhythmia/dysrhythmia

title: Herzrhythmusstörung


text: nebēdīgām

title: nebēdīgām


text: nebēdnīgām

title: nebēdnīgām


text:
Rhythmusstörung

Noun

 * 1) arrhythmia/dysrhythmia

title: Rhythmusstörung


text: gaumīgām

title: gaumīgām


text: gardām

title: gardām


text: garšīgām

title: garšīgām


text: vājdzirdīgām

title: vājdzirdīgām


text:
hexameren

Adjective

 * 1) hexameric

title: hexameren


text: kurlām

title: kurlām


text: kurslām

title: kurslām


text: nedzirdīgām

title: nedzirdīgām


text: dzirdīgām

title: dzirdīgām


text: raižpilniem

title: raižpilniem


text:
leiðari

Etymology 1
From.

Noun

 * 1) leading article, editorial, lead story
 * 2)  conductor

title: leiðari


text: raizīgiem

title: raizīgiem


text: gādīgiem

title: gādīgiem


text: rūpīgiem

title: rūpīgiem


text: bezrūpīgiem

title: bezrūpīgiem


text: nebēdīgiem

title: nebēdīgiem


text:
싱글싱글

Etymology
of.

Ideophone

 * 1) continuously grinningly

Synonyms

 * (ablaut reduplication)
 * (rhyme reduplication)
 * (mixed reduplication)

title: 싱글싱글


text: nebēdnīgiem

title: nebēdnīgiem


text: gaumīgiem

title: gaumīgiem


text: gardiem

title: gardiem


text: garšīgiem

title: garšīgiem


text: vājdzirdīgiem

title: vājdzirdīgiem


text: kurliem

title: kurliem


text: kursliem

title: kursliem


text: nedzirdīgiem

title: nedzirdīgiem


text: dzirdīgiem

title: dzirdīgiem


text:
raižpilnos

Adjective

title: raižpilnos


text:
raizīgos

Adjective

title: raizīgos


text:
gādīgos

Adjective

title: gādīgos


text:
rūpīgos

Adjective

title: rūpīgos