text:
Template talk:ja-pron

Initial discussion
Discussion moved from Talk:精神分裂病.

 * Having done Module:ko-pron, I'd like to start the work on Module:ja-pron now. Wyang (talk) 03:19, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * . Might as well move this discussion to a more visible place. ;) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:23, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Dunno where that is, but please go ahead and move it. I'm bogged down in meatspace work and don't have time for WT for the next week or two.  :(
 * please do! I don't have time, as much as I'd love to dig in and get my hands dirty.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 06:07, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * OK. I'll think of a different location. If you have a way to contact Haplology, please let him know we need him here! Take it easy and come back when you can.
 * . I'm happy to do the testing and using the future module but I'd need to brush up my IPA for Japanese. We'll have to rely on your skills and knowledge again. :) がんばってね！--Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 06:17, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * In case it's useful, y'all might want to look at User:Eirikr/edittools. I pulled together the IPA that (I think) is most suited to Japanese, based in part on discussions with IPA guru Kwamikagami over on Wikipedia some time back.  ..  (^^)  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 06:24, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I've done a crude version at Template:ja-pron and Module:ja-pron. Currently,

generates

Any suggestions? Wyang (talk) 07:52, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Well done! No suggestions yet but some documentation would be helpful, specifically on parameters and types of accents. It's for 標準語, isn't it or for any variety? Should the template link to/mention the variety name? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 08:01, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Can we also have Accent: 0, Accent: 1, 'etc. next to accent names? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 08:14, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * It would refer to standard Japanese, although I don't know where that information should be placed. How do the accent numbers correspond to accent types 'h,o,a,n'? isn't very helpful. Do they refer to the accented morae? (in which case, nakadaka could get more than one number, correct?) Wyang (talk) 13:10, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Letters must be the best way, then. Since we don't know if a given transcription is for the standard Japanese, I'll drop this request as well. They can be marked in brackets for any variety, potentially. Do you think we should have a default IPA info, when the pitch is unknown? Unfortunately, I don't have enough sources for the Japanese accents, nothing online, only some old Japanese-Russian dictionaries with accents. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:02, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Looks good. I tweaked the module to replace  with .  The former is a retroflex tap, not used in Japanese, while the latter is more generally accepted as the  tap preceding an  sound.
 * you're talking about the numbers used in some dictionaries to indicate the number of the syllable right after which the downstep in pitch occurs, yes? Or something else?  If you mean the downstep syllable, calling it  isn't quite correct.  If you mean something more like, maybe some other less ambiguous term could be used.
 * refers to as defined by Tokyo standard pronunciation and the NHK pronunciation guidelines for broadcasters.  I haven't seen any resources that give pitch information for any other dialects, but I would be quite happy to include those, provided we can find such resources.
 * With that in mind, is there any easy way to make the module, um, modular :), to allow for pluggable pitch sub-modules or functions? I haven't gone through the code at all really, I just made that one change to swap out.
 * Also, the pitch drop on long vowels looks plug-ugly at, at least on my machines -- the  that's supposed to show the lower pitch shows up too far to the right, so that it's not even over the vowel at all, appearing instead as a stray mark over the closing square bracket.
 * Lastly, combos like  don't quite work -- this should just be   instead, with just the main palatal glide of.
 * Cheers folks, thank you for your help with this! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 22:03, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, and to clarify, when I say I haven't seen any resources that give pitch information for any other dialects, I mean on a word-by-word basis. Shibatani and others do discuss the broad trends of pitch patterns, but the only lexicographical information about pitch that I've seen in actual dictionaries and the like has been for Tokyo dialect.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 22:05, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Oo, also, じ should be rendered as, not (not really clear what the parens are doing there, and no need for the small "j").  C.f..
 * For compatibility (and legibility) purposes, should support   as a synonym param for.
 * And, how / where do we put the reference footnote? If I put it right after the call to, the footnote shows up on the IPA line -- which isn't correct, since I'm using the reference for the pitch accent, not the IPA.  See  again for an example.
 * Thank you again! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 22:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Re: "nakadaka could get more than one number, correct". Does that mean than "n" may not be sufficient? I'll dig up my old dictionaries/textbooks and check if there is a straightforward mapping between numbers and letters (pitch accent names). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:32, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Pitch and names and numbers:
 * Heiban (, “flat”): Pitch rises after first syllable, falls gradually thereafter. Pitch number 0 -- no downstep.
 * Atamadaka (, “high head”): First syllable takes high pitch, downstep immediately thereafter. Pitch number 1 -- downstep after first mora.
 * Nakadaka (, “high middle”): Pitch rises after first syllable, downstep after some number of morae. Can only apply to terms with at least 3 morae.  Pitch number varies, must be at least 2, and less than the total number of morae in the term -- downstep after mora indicated by number.
 * Odaka (, “high tail”): Pitch rises after first syllable, downstep after last mora. Pitch number varies, must be the number of the last mora in the term -- downstep after mora indicated by number.  For odaka terms, the downstep is actually heard on the following particle.
 * Hope that clarifies! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 23:45, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. You have just confirmed that for Nakadaka there are variants. That means that just using "n" won't produce 100% correct pitch accent. Users may want to know when the downstep starts on long words, right? Please clarify. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:08, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.
 * 1) 'replace  with ' - great
 * 2) 'the accent fall on long vowels looks plug-ugly'
 * Um... not sure how to solve this. Unicode only has combined grave-macron for e (ḕ) and o (ṑ). It is caused by the font formatting kàrífúráwā̀ (kàrífúráwā̀). cf. normal unformatted 'kàrífúráwā̀'. We could decompose it into single vowels, eg. kàrífúráwàà, or use either no formatting or some other font (which I don't know). For now I have decomposed it into single vowels and it now looks like Navajo.
 * 1) Palatalisation. It is currently consistently marked. Questions are:
 * 2) Should it be consistently marked? eg. mi -> mʲi, ki -> kʲi, çj -> çʲj. I have removed this now.
 * 3) Should it be marked by default after ɕ, t͡ɕ and d͡ʑ, or when those are followed by non-'ij', or not at all? This version of 統合失調症 used the second option. I have changed it to match that.
 * 4) About '(d͡)ʑ'...  says d͡ʑ ~ ʑ and d͡z ~ z are in free variation for romaji 'j' and 'z', respectively. Hence the notation there... Should these be written as 'd͡ʑ' and 'd͡z' regardless of the environments they are in? I have converted them to 'd͡ʑ' and 'd͡z' for now.
 * 5) I have added |yomi, |accent, |accent2, |acc_loc, |accent_loc (these are 'Tokyo' by default), |acc_ref, |accent_ref ('DJR' by default), |acc2_loc, |accent2_loc ('Tokyo' by default), |acc2_ref, |accent2_ref ('DJR' if |acc2 exists).

Anatoli: The single-letter accent types in that template mainly match, except 'nakadaka' which needs further specifying. Thus |acc=o (o), |acc=a (a), |acc=h (h), |acc=2,3 (n), |acc=2,2 (n). I'm not sure how the accent numbers correspond to this. Maybe they are positions of accented morae? Wyang (talk) 00:20, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

 * re: single-letter accent types, see above about Pitch and names and numbers. :)  Theoretically, it should be possible to specify h, a, or o without needing any number.  Only nakadaka would require a number to be able to figure out where the downstep happens.  As such, one should ideally be able to specify nakadaka using 'nX, where X is the number, or by using X alone.
 * For that matter, it might make sense to allow accent types to also be specified by number alone, where 0 or 1 would be heiban or atamadaka respectively, and any greater value would wind up as odaka or nakadaka, depending on how many morae are in the term.

 * Re: d͡ʑ ~ ʑ and d͡z ~ z, d͡z happens, but is rarer. Likewise, ʑ happens, but is rarer.  This is mostly an issue of geographical variations in dialect.  For NHK purposes (i.e. one of the closest things to a standard pronunciation), my understanding is that romaji "j" == [d͡ʑ], and romaji "z" == [z].  This gets complicated, but it might make sense in the longer term to add a param to allow for specifying this variation, since I think it might sometimes be contrastive and / or emphasized in certain careful speech.
 * Similarly, whether or not certain /i/ or /u/ sounds are unvoiced should also be specifiable.  is つき in hiragana, and is usually [t͡sɯ̥ᵝki] as I hear it.  Meanwhile,  as in about, regarding is also つき in hiragana, and is usually [t͡sɯᵝki] as I hear it.  So it's not really possible to tell just from the kana spelling whether a given /i/ or /u/ is unvoiced.

 * Re: where to put references, there's also the question of where to put qualifiers. Sometimes, albeit rarely, certain pitch patterns for a single term are specific to certain senses.  See  for one such example.
 * Thanks again! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 01:00, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

 * How is non-initial /g/ handled? Are both g/ŋ produced? Please demonstrate on ありがとう.
 * To me, it seems most Japanese who start learning foreign languages late, have difficulty pronouncing /ʑ/, even if they make an effort. :) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:11, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. How about now? Wyang (talk) 02:10, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * For arigatou:
 * d͡z: changed to 'z'.
 * For vowel devoicing: There was a rule in the module, which devoices vowels between voiceless consonants, and then only keeps the first when two devoiced vowels occur in adjacent morae. I have removed that rule and added a |dev= parameter. Please see Template:ja-pron/documentation.
 * I have added |acc_note, |accent_note, |acc2_note, |accent2_note, which are placed at the end of the accent line.
 * Accent types '0' and '1' treated as 'h' and 'a'. If not single characters 'hao01', then remove 'o'. If resulting string is equal to the length of text, then 'o'. If not, then 'n'. eg. |acc=0 (h), |acc=1 (a), |acc=h (h), |acc=2 for 2-morae word (o), |acc=3 for 3-morae word (n3), |acc=o for 5-morae word (o).
 * I have added an accent reference template so that |acc_ref=NHK etc. can now call the reference template. (Template:ja-pron/documentation)

 * [[Image:Arrowred.png|15px]] More thoughts :) --
 * There are sometimes more than just two pitch accent patterns. The most I can recall running into is three, but I suppose it's possible that a handful of terms might even have four.
 * I'm changing the description for the  param -- the number should really be described as the mora number, as some syllabic analyses would give incorrect results.  For instance, かんした could be analyzed as having two syllables (sounding like  in casual speech), but four morae, and the devoiced mora is the third one.
 * For references, I think it's best to have the default be nothing. There are terms where Daijirin doesn't include any pitch accent, and I've misplaced my NHK pronunciation dictionary (probably in a box in storage), but I work with native speakers and sometimes crib from them.  In these cases, I deliberately don't list any reference, since there isn't really any -- but I think the pitch information is important enough to include, until such time as I can find a real reference to add.
 * Also, by You can also do it the conventional way, |acc_ref=[1] -- do you mean that it's possible to add the call to, etc., directly as the  param value?
 * Lastly, perhaps we should copy / move this thread to Template_talk:ja-pron? :)
 * Thanks again, again! :D   ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 19:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Wyang (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I have added |acc3, |acc4 and |acc5, since there might be occasions where non-Tokyo accent patterns would like to be specified too.
 * 'dev': I think I might have described it inaccurately... As the module analyses it, the 'dev' parameter is the position of the devoiced syllable in the kana string. eg. hyakushou should have |dev=3 (not 2), and だいこん やくしゃ should have |dev=6 (spaces are not counted). This is inconsistent with the format of the accent parameter, but I think it is easier to specify and easier for the module to handle.
 * 'ref': Oops, I forgot to put nowiki tags around it. It should read |acc_ref=.
 * 'default ref': I have removed the default reference, so that there is no reference listed when the parameter is unspecified.
 * 'dehijacking the talkpage': I agree... Hence it is here now.

Pitch on moraic /n/ > ん
I was reformatting and noticed that the downstep that occurs on the final ん isn't being indicated in the romanized version with tone marks. For instance, is giving   and , when it should be outputting   and   instead.

For that matter, even if there were no downstep, the template should still show tone marks for moraic /n/. Could that be fixed? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 05:59, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think it's fixed now. Wyang (talk) 08:02, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Displaying numbers next to pitch accent names
It would be good to add numbers next pitch accent names, similar to how some paper and online dictionaries mark accents, e.g. 現在 on Weblio. it would make it easier to cross-reference Wiktionary accent names to those numbers. User:Eirikr seems to agree. Do you think it's a good idea? --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Added now. Wyang (talk) 02:22, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I've added [ ]. Is that OK? From what I've seen so far, either a superscript number is used or a number in square brackets. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:01, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, please prettify anything. :) Wyang (talk) 03:58, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

宿題
,

It didn't work on 宿題 (しゅくだい), the しゅ part. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:19, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Why is |dev=1? I thought vowel devoicing only occurs interconsonantally. Wyang (talk) 06:48, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's between two devoiced consonants ɕ and k. Same with しかし (working fine) and 少し (adding now). NHK even uses a similar notation to ours for devoiced vowels. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 07:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It should be |dev=2 instead. |dev= is the position of kana with devoiced vowel in the input kana string. Wyang (talk) 07:31, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you. Silly me. :) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 07:37, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Just saw this thread again. Wyang, when kana compounds like しゅ are devoiced, the whole thing should be marked as devoiced, like .  Marking it as し makes it look like  or some such oddness, when what we want to indicate instead is  or ..  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 01:40, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice this, thanks. You're right. I'm also inviting you to join Beer_parlour/2015/February, which may affect Japanese categories, hopefully for the better, if implemented. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:00, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

dev2, dev3?
Frank, can there be more dev's, please, as in 蛋白質 to get [tã̠mpa̠kɯ̥ᵝɕit͡sɯ̥ᵝ], e.g. ...|dev=4|dev2=6...? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:22, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, second devil added. I want to rewrite its code... so that the devils can be written as たんぱ(く)し(つ), avoiding the need for |dev11=. Keep it like this for now, I will change the format if I ever get around to doing that... Wyang (talk) 03:43, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. I guess all uses will need to be updated? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not a big problem when done semi-automatically. We've managed to do all the Chinese format changes... Wyang (talk) 03:53, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You're genius. :) --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Frank, I'm back in Melbourne after three weeks in France (also a bit of Belgium) I'm eager to see the change, as 少し and しかし also need to be fixed. :) --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Bug with sutegana at the beginning of a term
"fúァ" and "fúィ" probably isn't desirable—umbreon 126 07:37, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 'tis okay now —umbreon 126 05:11, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, User:Wyang! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:19, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries. :) Wyang (talk) 20:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Delimiting vowels
For example, on 女王 (applies to the readings じょおう [2] and にょおう [2]), there is a need to delimit the vowels for the IPA to render properly, but when this is done using. as is done in ja-noun, the. is printed in the kana and it also messes up the accent because the dot gets counted as a kana. Nibiko (talk) 08:25, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

 * by Kc kennylau! Thank you so much, Kc kennylau! <3 Nibiko (talk) 04:36, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Twofold long vowels
Different to my above-mentioned concern, I noticed that on 蓊鬱 おううつ is represented as òóótsú just before the section where it says Heiban. I would expect it to be òóútsú. Nibiko (talk) 03:12, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

It gives the pronunciation for 被爆者. I don’t know where this comes from. The intervocalic is often realized as a fricative but the phoneme  doesn’t change at least in my pronunciation. In addition, is redundant because  is already palatalized. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 12:27, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * . --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:03, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. [β] is from - should the rule be removed? Removed palatalisation of [ɕʑ]. Wyang (talk) 00:11, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we should remove the rule of β. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 06:11, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok no problem. Removed. Thanks! Wyang (talk) 09:01, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank YOU! — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 00:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Sorting
Can a  parameter be added to the template? —britannic124 (talk) 16:28, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Since this template already uses a kana-ized string as its primary input, a sort key shouldn't be necessary.
 * I do see that the underlying module is not changing katakana to hiragana for sorting purposes, but this should be fixed in the module itself, so that the sort key is correctly and automatically derived from the data that the module is already using., is that something you could do?  If not, could you ping someone who could?  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:14, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Sure, I added sortkeys to the IPA and audio categories. It's a bit of an ugly hack though, since those templates do not seem to support |sort=. Wyang (talk) 22:20, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

ん (‘n’) before approximates
Shouldn’t “n” before “w” be represented as [ɰ̃ᵝ], like in “denwa” [dẽ̞ɰ̃ᵝɰᵝa̠]? (Or least [dẽ̞ɴɰᵝa̠]?) And “n” before “y” as [j̃], like in “shin’ya” [ɕĩj̃ja̠]? —britannic124 (talk) 18:02, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Recent change to Module:ja-pron
Hi ! Just letting you know that there was a change to Module:ja-pron recently by User:Nardog. I'm not qualified to comment on the IPA changes, but I know you are definitely. :) Wyang (talk) 09:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

dev2
Since the Japanese attention category has no organisation, I'm leaving my concern here. It would be good if you could override the value of the dev parameter for a certain accent, as this would allow to express exceptions in a single use of the template. See 増幅器 and 屹度. Nibiko (talk) 13:02, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Co-occurring pitch accents
ja-pron does not currently support co-occurring pitch accents. If a term has multiple pitch accents divided across words, then see 因果応報 and 一期一会 for the current way to format them. Nibiko (talk) 02:29, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Error in display of devoiced vowels
currently yields (refs removed)

 * On’yomi
 * ( Tokyo ) だ いこんや  く しゃ <tt>[dàíkóń y á ꜜkùshà]</tt> (Nakadaka - [5])
 * IPA(key):  [da̠ikõ̞ɰ̃ ja̠kɯ̟̊ᵝɕa̠]

<tt>[dàíkóń y á ꜜkùshà]</tt> should be <tt>[dàíkóń yáꜜk ù shà]</tt>, to match the hiragana (and because apparently only u and i can be devoiced). Something must be making the function think there's an extra vowel or mora somewhere before the second word. — Eru·tuon 18:42, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

 * (I think that part of is somehow generally problematic. ( [mà ー bóódóꜜòfù],  [nóꜜ ò mà]) —suzukaze (t・c) 09:14, 21 August 2017 (UTC))

Distinguishing [oɯ] from [oː] and [ei] from [eː]
Though relatively rare, [oɯ] and [oː] and [ei] and [eː] do contrast in Japanese, as in ō 王 ('king') vs. ou 追う ('to pursue'), mei-sha 名車 ('great car') vs. 目医者 me-i-sha ('eye doctor'). As far as the IPA is concerned this isn't much of a problem since e.g.  yields, but this workaround wouldn't work as soon as   is introduced. They should be supported in some way or another. Nardog (talk) 08:48, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Or rather, maybe all instances of [oː] and [eː] should be represented by おー and えー instead of おう and えい, so that おう and えい would always stand for [oɯ] and [ei], as in  instead of. This would make it clearer too because おう and えい being restricted to [oː] and [eː] is inherently ambiguous since, orthographically, they could always represent either [oː]/[eː] or [oɯ]/[ei]. Nardog (talk) 08:54, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

は/へ vs. わ/え
I also noticed the particles は and へ would still be shown as は and へ in the kana representation even though they are pronounced [ɰa] and [e], not [ha] and [he]. But I believe, since the kanas are in and of themselves phonetic symbols, in pronunciation illustrations, they should be the phonetic わ and え instead. (By extension one could argue を should be お too, but since there's no pronunciation variation in を and some do preserve [ɰo] for を so I don't support changing it as strongly as for the other two.) Nardog (talk) 11:31, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

IPA module
Hey, is there a reason this template doesn't call lua in Module:IPA? I ask primarily because this module is adding non-entry pages to Category:Japanese terms with IPA pronunciation. Thanks! — JohnC5
 * If I remember correctly, it was because the IPA module does not allow sortkey categorisation. Wyang (talk) 05:26, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * How about ? <tt>;P</tt> — JohnC5
 * All right! Wyang (talk) 05:45, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That fixed it. — JohnC5 06:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

日向
Hello Wyang, long time no write. :)

I was cleaning up the entry, and found that the pronunciation given at 日向 is a little weird. It's showing up as, when it should be something more like. I don't suppose you could have a look at the module code? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 05:47, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * ( —suzukaze (t・c) 05:48, 15 September 2017 (UTC))
 * It's perfectly accurate. See Japanese phonology. /u/ [ɯ̟ᵝ] becomes centralized to [ɨᵝ] after /j/, and /hj/ is [ç]. Vance (2008) had [çj], but this was criticized by Akamatsu. Nardog (talk) 05:55, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello Eirikr! Long time no write. I will hand the mic now to ... Wyang (talk) 06:08, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict... :) )
 * , there is a definite glide in the ひゅ sound as pronounced by speakers, which is not represented anywhere in . The IPA is thus misleading.
 * Akamatsu seems to make the argument that there is no glide anywhere after, which is frankly baffling to me, as this does not match my experience at all. It leads me to wonder if he's describing a dialect, or if his home lect might be biasing his interpretation.
 * FWIW, I'm more interested in descriptively representing Japanese sounds, rather than hewing to any particular academic theory. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 06:15, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * [ç] is a palatal fricative, i.e. [j̝̊], so it is only natural a [j]-like sound is heard during the transition from [ç] to [ɨᵝ] (that is why they're called "glides" in the first place). Hence [çj] is inherently redundant, unless some language somewhere contrasted [çV] and [çjV]. Nardog (talk) 06:40, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm familiar with palatal fricatives, but it seems I've spent too much time working on /phonemics/ and not [phonetics]. I'm happy to concede the point.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 07:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * FWIW, it would also be very inconsistent if it were [çj]. All consonants are palatalized before /i, j/ either phonetically ([kʲ], [ɡʲ], [mʲ]...) or phonologically ([ɕ], [tɕ], [(d)ʑ]...). So if /h/ became [çj] before /i, j/, or, even more capriciously, /hi/ became [çi] but /hj/ became [çj], that would be quite an exception. Nardog (talk) 06:37, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

ざ・ず・ぜ・ぞ
I noticed that ざ・ず・ぜ・ぞ are now being rendered by the module with initial consonant, indicating a harder onset than I hear around me. I also note that some dialects of Japanese distinguish between づ and ず, which would ostensibly be and.

Do you have any insight? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 04:57, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I felt we discussed at Template talk:ja-pron before when designing the template. Pinging for his or her opinion. Wyang (talk) 05:20, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It's in free variation, so we can't say for certain it's one or the other. The compromise the template currently adopts is to treat /z/, /zi–di/, /zu–du/, /zj–dj/ as affricates when word-initial or after /N/ and as sole fricatives when intervocalic.
 * Do the speakers around you at least pronounce it with the tip of the tongue at first in contact with the roof of the mouth? If so it's without a doubt an affricate, although it might not be as striking as cards in English. In fact most speakers of Standard Japanese can't (and don't realize they can't) pronounce English zoo or French genre properly without training, or grasp the difference between cars and cards.
 * Not only is the number of speakers who still make the distinction between /zu/ and /du/ very small (see the map at Yotsugana), but the distinction is not represented in orthography in many cases since the spelling reform of 1946. So we can't possibly integrate the pronunciation for speakers without the neutralization into the template. (Also note that even in words still spelled with ぢ or づ, speakers who have /zu, du/ and /zi, di/ neutralized might still pronounce them as [z]/[ʑ].) We can of course manually add non-neutralized pronunciations on the entries for relevant words, though.
 * See Labrune (2012:64–66) for more. Nardog (talk) 07:40, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Re: yotsugana, thank you for the link, I couldn't think of the term earlier this evening. FWIW, one of my teachers years ago was from Kyushu and made the four-way distinction.  Later, I lived in the Tōhoku, but in Morioka, which appears to be the pocket of yellow on the map; later on, I was in Tochigi, and later still in Tokyo.  FWIW, I recall students in Tochigi deliberately overpronouncing づ in names to clarify the spelling, so at least in that rarified context, even Kantō speakers may make some distinction.
 * I'll keep my ears open at work over the next several days, and see if I can tease out the specifics of articulation by the native speakers around me (mostly Tokyo-ites, with some folks from Kyoto and elsewhere in Kansai). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 16:19, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * ご報告楽しみにしてます. ;)
 * Here's a relevant quote from Vance (2008:85–86):"Typically, though not consistently, [dz] occurs at the beginning of a word or in the middle of a word immediately following a syllable-final consonant [i.e. /N/ or /Q/], and [z] occurs in the middle of a word immediately following a vowel. In short, [dz] and [z] are allophones of this /z/ phoneme. Most native speakers of Japanese are quite surprised to discover that there's actually a phonetic difference to worry about, but you'll hear it if you listen carefully to pronunciations of zu [dzɯ] 図 'diagram' and chizu [cɕizɯ] 地図 'map'."
 * He then goes on to cite the minimal pairs 屑 (traditionally spelled くづ) vs. 葛 (traditionally くず) and 記事 (traditionally きじ) vs. 生地 (traditionally きぢ), which used to be pronounced differently "until about 400 years ago" but are now both spelled with ず/じ and not distinguished by Tokyo Japanese speakers.
 * Interestingly, he diverges a little bit from Labrune in saying that, in "careful pronunciation", modern Tokyo Japanese speakers always realize j (じ, じゃ, じゅ, じょ) as [dʑ], as opposed to the "typical, though not consistent," production of z (ざ, ず, ぜ, ぞ) as [z] intervocalically and as [dz] otherwise.
 * If this account is supported by several other scholars, I'd be willing to change the template's current realization of じ, じゃ, じゅ, じょ, i.e. [ʑ] intervocalically and [dʑ] otherwise, to always [dʑ]. Nardog (talk) 06:16, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I support your proposition just as a native speaker. For me, /dʑ/ is the base phoneme and [ʑ] is a casual intervocalic allophone, just like the intervocalic allophone [ɣ] for the phoneme /ɡ/. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 00:48, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Verb ending with "ou"
I know that verbs ending with "ou" such as 競う, 囲う and 惑う are pronounced not /o:/ but /ou/. Naggy Nagumo (talk) 08:10, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I can distinguish them by writing like "まど.う". I am sorry for making noise. Naggy Nagumo (talk) 08:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Katakana for IPA
Something's going wrong at 首長国: there's a katakana in the IPA transcription. —Mahāgaja <small style="font-size:85%;">(formerly Angr) · talk 14:52, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And at ニュースキャスター too. —Mahāgaja <small style="font-size:85%;">(formerly Angr) · talk 14:55, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * ニュースキャスター has wrong parameter, I'll fix it. 首長国: When yōon like "しゅ" is devoiced, it seems go wrong. --Naggy Nagumo (talk) 23:18, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * —Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:19, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

 * I think the entire module needs to be overhauled (；・∀・) —suzukaze (t・c) 00:33, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Just curious, why do you think so. It's mostly working fine, doesn't it? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:51, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It's working, but it seems fragile... —suzukaze (t・c) 01:37, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Re dev: I think it would be much easier if the dev parameters are incorporated into the kana string (e.g. つ'くよみ). Wyang (talk) 00:54, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * @Wyang, @Naggy Nagumo -- my sneaking hunch is that the handling of the devoicing parameter is screwy from the get-go. For reasons unknown to me (I haven't gone through the module codebase),   uses a different count than  .  While   is based on the actual mora count,   appears to be based on the character count -- which will always diverge from the mora count for any term with yōon or other small non-moraic vowel kana (such as ファン or シェル, where the small ァ and ェ are not technically yōon as I've understood it).  Since the string processing for   is based on character count, it seems like the module can incorrectly split up phonographemes like ファ or しゅ, leaving the small kana dangling and unprocessed -- where it then appears in the final output string.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:59, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * There's the  parameter that counts by mora, added by Kenny before, which is one bug (out of two) less buggy. I've fixed 首長国. Wyang (talk) 02:39, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I think your changes have introduced a Lua error on 少し. Could you please take a look? —Internoob 06:41, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, it has been fixed. Wyang (talk) 06:50, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * By the way, is there a need to have the /  parameter? It is already present in, and in a few cases it may depend on which spelling you choose as the main entry. --Dine2016 (talk) 14:10, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * describes the spelling, in which case which yomi is in use is potentially useful information.  describes the pronunciation, in which case, again, which yomi is in use is potentially useful information.  Given the current infrastructure, if we want to have yomi in both places, we need to add the value in both places -- so far as I understand it, the scope is limited such that one template invocation on a page cannot reference any of the parameters given to another template invocation.
 * Not sure what you mean by "in a few cases it may depend on which spelling you choose as the main entry". The yomi in either  or  should match the headword for the relevant etymology section.  Any given spelling with multiple readings should have a separate etymology section for each reading.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:13, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * "It may depend" might be referring to cases like 気まぐれ / 気紛れ, in which there is on'yomi/on'yomi+kun'yomi. —suzukaze (t・c) 21:17, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * For cases like that, which don't cleanly fit even into 湯桶読み or 重箱読み categories, and for cases of longer mixed-reading compounds, I find myself coming back to the need to revamp (at a minimum) to allow editors to specify yomi for each kanji, not just for the whole term.  (I mean, allow specifying for the whole term where that fits, but also allow per-kanji yomi values where whole-term reading categories won't fit.)  In fact, thinking it through now, I'd prefer to have *detailed* yomi information in, and leave it out of.
 * Is this idea sensible? Would that work for others?  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * There is Template_talk:ja-kanjitab and Module:User:Suzukaze-c/Hani-tab (although we are diverging from the original topic). —suzukaze (t・c) 21:29, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

 * Now at the kanji itself is appearing in the IPA transcription, even though the template specifies the hiragana as the first positional parameter. —Mahāgaja <small style="font-size:85%;">(formerly Angr) · talk 14:48, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I suspect that was caused by the second instance of, , which didn't specify any parameter except   for the audio file.  I've merged the two, and now things are displaying correctly.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:05, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Atamadaka notation not accounting for long vowels in first syllable
In creating the page for 聖句 (せいく), I gave the |acc=1| parameter, since it uses an atamadaka-gata pitch accent. However, it is showing  for the pitch, when it should be   because of the long vowel in the first syllable. Should a rule be added in the module where it would place the pitch fall differently between, say, せー and せい in the first parameter? (This exception would also occur when the first syllable ends with ん.) <em style="font-family:Georgia;color:blue">Blue <em style="font-family:Georgia;color:black">Caper  (talk) 17:05, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Each せい, せー and せん is single syllable but two morae. It should be . --Naggy Nagumo (talk) 15:03, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, as Naggy stated. Atamadaka means high pitch on the first mora, not the first syllable, so   is correct.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 20:09, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Verb 囲う "kako.u" incorrect IPA
On the entry for 囲う, using "かこ.う" the kana correctly renders as "かこう" but the IPA says "kàkóó". The second "o" should be a "u".
 * Agreed. . --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:11, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note that the verb with a similar ending is working fine. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:16, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It works correctly only when  is specified. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 03:27, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the significant feature is that there is no problem when the accent falls on the kana before the "u". (Aogaeru4 (talk) 03:30, 10 July 2018 (UTC))
 * It should be fixed now. Wyang (talk) 03:43, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yay! Thanks, Frank. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:46, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

yutōyomi vs k,o

 * Discussion moved to Template talk:ja-kanjitab

呉音 and 漢音
See the Wikipedia articles ' and '. Also compare the following Google hits: The second one mostly shows our project, which is a bad sign: we don’t follow the mainstream spellings. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 11:31, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
 * [//www.google.com/search?q=%22go-on%22+%22kan-on%22 "go-on" "kan-on"]
 * [//www.google.com/search?q=%22goon%22+%22kan'on%22 "goon" "kan'on"]
 * FWIW, I note that Google doesn't differentiate between searches for [ kan-on] and searches for [ kan'on]. Regarding the convention of romanizing 呉音 as go-on with a hyphen, I think that's largely to differentiate from the regular English term .  I see that the WP article at  has had the same headword spelling since 2008, and no discussion on its talk page about the romanization.
 * By way of comparison, I just had a look in the index of Shibatani's The Languages of Japan, and I see that he used kan'on and go'on.
 * Considering that go-on and go'on appear to be more common in English-language texts as the romanization for 呉音, I think we should have entries at these spellings, in accordance with our overarching policy of being a descriptive dictionary. If a term is in demonstrable use, we should generally have an entry for it.  This also improves discoverability.  However, for purposes of our own usage in headings and text in Japanese entries, I don't consider Google usage patterns to be a strong indicator for how we should spell things: for Japanese terms written in the Latin alphabet, we use a variant of Hepburn, as described at Japanese transliteration.
 * That said, it's good to discuss this from time to time and make sure we're in accordance at least amongst ourselves. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:46, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Strange behavior at ハノイ
For some reason, the pronunciation at is given as "[háꜜnòì]" in transcription (so far quite reasonable), but as "[ɰᵝa̠ no̞i]" in IPA, which seems to be "wanoi" rather than the "hanoi" I'd expect. What's happening here? MuDavid (talk) 08:11, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved the discussion from Module talk:ja. Removing the space from the word fixes the transcription: gives . Perhaps  on its own is being interpreted as the particle . — Eru·tuon 08:57, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed it does, thank you! MuDavid (talk) 09:05, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

char count or mora count for "dev"?
Since I changed the module, "dev" should be an index by mora, not by character. Previously dev was counted by character, so entries including yōon(拗音) will be incorrect. (e.g. 百姓  will be incorrect ひゃく(しょ)ー, now it should be  ). If this change is bad, please revert or fix the module. If this change is okay, please fix entries. --Naggy Nagumo (talk) 00:29, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

At most 182 entries may be related －Naggy Nagumo (talk) 00:37, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Thank you! I'd long been puzzled by that.  At some point there was a separate   parameter to handle devoicing specifically by mora count -- but I've never understood why that was even created, since (as you note) one would never want to mark devoicing on any other basis.  This might entail some clean-up, though, for entries with 拗音 (and possibly also 促音).  Cheers!  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:44, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 * User:Shen233 brought 出没 to my attention: if we write 1 there, then the correct kana get circled in the top line, but the IPA gets broken. If we write 2 there, then the wrong kana gets circled in the top line, but the IPA is correct. Can this be fixed? —Mahāgaja · talk 05:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Fixed. —Naggy Nagumo (talk) 05:55, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Deprecate yomi=/y= for this template and Kansai/Kyoto pitch accents
Since is enough for the js parameter, might as well remove the js/js parameter of this template? That is of course if there is a bot who can gladly make the necessary changes.

In other news, I have been experimenting with and  regarding the Kansai/Kyoto accents after 's edits and tried to unify it into one single template with the standard Tokyo accent, which proves to be disastrous:

In this example, the Kyoto accent should be instead of Atamadaka and parameters prefixed with js were put in the first line or js/js.

This one has two separate templates, better than nothing, the Kyoto accent still has to be labeled instead of Atamadaka.

This is the current one with the correct Kyoto pitch accent and not using the template as in the pronunciation under the Okinawan header. The IPA is somewhat the same as the last two though.
 * (Kyoto) あ <tt>[áꜜsù]</tt> ( - [1])

Any thoughts? Is there to need to update this template for the dialects? Remember that the pitch accents are not in line as the standard Tokyo accents. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 05:35, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 * For the  or   parameters, it's probably enough to just remove or comment out the relevant code in the module.  I'm less familiar with our Lua infrastructure, but for regular templates that don't use modules, any parameter in a template call that isn't handled by the template does ... nothing.  It only appears in the wikicode, with no effect on the output.
 * If we wanted to be clever about it, we'd replace the handling code for  or   values to instead add the entry to a maintenance category, which we would then use to either manually or bot-wise go through and remove the parameters and arguments.
 * For the pronunciation details, I have some questions.
 * Is that specifically Kyōto accent, or is it more generally Kansai?
 * What is Kōki? Since this is supposed to be information for the reader of the template's output, in order to provide further detail required to understand that output, I'd recommend that we create that entry, and any other relevant entries, before building out their use in this template.
 * Good stuff! Cheers, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 05:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 * after checking Kansai_dialect#Pitch_accent link (which you might have not seen in my starting post), also forgot to put Japanese_pitch_accent#Kyoto–Osaka_(Keihan_type) for your convenience. You're right that the accent mentioned is Kansai *in general*, don't see any difference there. literally means a “high-rising” accent in which the first mora has a high pitch and the next one(s) usually have high pitch(es). Contrasts to, literally “low-rising” where the first mora has a low pitch. Both yield no entries in Kotobank, though. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 06:55, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * @Eirikr, @Poketalker: I wrote a bot script today to get rid of the yomi arguments from the from entries in  . The source code is here, if you would be interested in reading it. I'm going to make a post in the Beer parlour – if you think the script is good enough, please lend me your support over there! Thanks, Kiril kovachev (talk) 15:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

[ŋ]
I think it would be informative and useful if we modified ja-pron so that it produces [ŋ] where applicable. Given that the template outputs phonetic, not phonemic IPA, it is actually in a way "necessary" for us to use [ŋ] where applicable if we want to be correct. In the article, we use [ŋ] manually (i.e. using IPA directly) but almost none of the other entries (where it would be correct) use both [g] as well as [ŋ] (there's also entries like 天が下 (before I've changed it) where only [ŋ] was used). I could easily modify the module so that it produces both a [g] as well as a [ŋ] variant if given か゚ but then the task remains that か゚ needs to be added to potentially thousands of entries. Is there a better solution? What do others think? — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 00:29, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Word-internal /ɡ/ as [ŋ] is a regressive feature, now consistently exhibited only by older Tokyo speakers.
 * Vance (2008: 214): "According to descriptions written around 1940, many Tokyo natives were consistent nasal speakers at that time, but the proportion of inconsistent speakers and consistent stop speakers was on the increase. More recent sociolinguistic studies indicate that the proportion of consistent stop speakers has in fact increased and that, at least in some Tokyo neighborhoods, the proportion of tokens pronounced with [ŋ]/[ŋʲ] correlates with the age of the speaker."
 * Labrune (2012: 78): "The study by Hibiya (1999) clearly demonstrates that there is a clear pattern of age stratification in the use of [ŋ], which drops off as age diminishes."
 * Nardog (talk) 17:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Fytcha: What @Nardog wrote is correct. Only a very small part of elderly people still uses /ŋ/, most people either say /g/ or /ɣ/ (the latter might even be more prominent in Tokyo). — Sartma 【𒁾𒁉 ● 𒊭 𒌑𒊑𒀉𒁲】 10:37, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Slashes enclose phonemes. We're talking about realizations. Nardog (talk) 22:40, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nardog: I meant realisations too, hence the verbs "use" and "say". Sometimes it's good to just be practical, see the big picture, and understand what people are trying to say, without being unnecessarily pedantic. — Sartma 【𒁾𒁉 ● 𒊭 𒌑𒊑𒀉𒁲】 23:16, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I know you did, "we" was inclusive. When I see as grievous an error as using slashes to enclose allophones, I correct it not just for the person making the error but for anybody who sees it. Nardog (talk) 23:22, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nardog: I understand that spirit. It's the same one that makes me call out pedantry when there is an excess of it. I don't do that just for the person being unnecessarily pedantic, but for anybody to know that it is ok to call it out. It's perfectly fine to point to the moon with a dirty finger. The enlightened ones will know what to look at. — Sartma 【𒁾𒁉 ● 𒊭 𒌑𒊑𒀉𒁲】 00:36, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

not working properly if there is no
The note intended for the second accent is displayed after the first accent, see 千本. Pinging. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 02:11, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

 * @Fytcha Fixed. Rdoegcd (talk) 06:27, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

not rendering if there is no pitch specified
There are cases where a word might not have any pitch that we can specify, but we still want to add  to clarify -- particularly for verb suffixes, where the pitch depends on the verb to which the suffix attaches. See the wikicode at, for instance.

Could someone please update the template / module to allow  (and , etc.) even if there is no   (or  , etc.)? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:20, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

d͡z/z and d͡ʑ/ʑ
The module currently produces [ɕĩn(d͡)ʑɨᵝ] for 真珠, which doesn't look right. I think it should be either [ɕĩɲ̟d͡ʑɨᵝ] (in the traditional description mentioned in Japanese phonology) or [ɕĩɰ̃ʑɨᵝ] (taking into account the Maekawa (2010) study and treating /N/ the same way as in 新種 [ɕĩɰ̃ɕɨᵝ]). Also, the d͡z/z and d͡ʑ/ʑ variations should hold before all vowels, not just before /i, u/, right? Rdoegcd (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * [ɕĩɰ̃ʑɨᵝ] wouldn't be "taking into account the Maekawa (2010) study". He says /N/ "strongly enhanced [rate of affricate realization]" (p. 365). Nardog (talk) 12:53, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Removed it. The module already assumes the Tokyo-style yotsugana merger, which means [z] and [dz], and [ʑ] and [dʑ], are in complementary distribution. The addition seems to have been motivated by an incomplete understanding of the merger. Nardog (talk) 13:03, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Add a hidden category for unsourced pitch accents
Hi,

Could someone add a hidden maintenance category when no reference is given for a pitch accent? This would allow me to check them and add references.

Thanks. Thibaut (talk) 11:11, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

 * @Thibaut120094 With regards to this, I regularly add pitch accents from JPDB.io because it's a very straightforward resource to access and means I don't need to open my NHK ebook and seek alphabetically for it; is there any other accepted online source that can be put in instead? Kiril kovachev (talk) 23:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * JPDB.io uses AI to autogenerate pitch accent graphs, it might not be accurate.
 * It’s best to stick to authoritative Japanese dictionaries like the NHK dictionary or the Daijirin, paid digital versions are available on various platforms (for example on iOS and macOS). Thibaut (talk) 23:53, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I see, I apologise then if I may have polluted some entries with wrong pitch accents, although I believe the main ones I've been porting have been confirmed as opposed to AI-generated (there's a warning icon to signify if the accent is auto-generated). Anyway, this is perhaps a good wake-up call to simply make the effort to look it up, since I do already have a copy of NHK. Thanks for your advice, Kiril kovachev (talk) 13:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I found for looking up words through NHK, this way you don't need a paper or ebook copy but can just look it up online. Kiril kovachev (talk) 22:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Thibaut120094 Here, I made it so they're now added to Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:tracking/ja-pron/unsourced_accent, but be warned there is a ton of them. Maybe there is a better way of doing this—in fact, I was wondering whether this should be a proper category, maybe which would appear under Category:Requests concerning Japanese, but unfortunately I don't know how to do that... Sorry that it took such a while when the change was really little in fact... Kiril kovachev (talk) 22:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! Thibaut (talk) 08:32, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem! Kiril kovachev (talk) 10:01, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

recent edit
the edit was meant to be minor edit; i was rushing and forgot to click the button Chuterix (talk) 04:37, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

 * also notifying @Theknightwho Chuterix (talk) 04:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * i fixed module error alos minor edit
 * can someone get shuri naha to work Chuterix (talk) 04:44, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Okinawan has its own ISO 639 code, you should just fork the template/module rather than extend them. Nardog (talk) 07:23, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nardog No - that is a really bad idea, because it causes a maintenance nightmare where modules for smaller sister languages effectively get neglected; we've had this issue with Okinawan already. We will do what we've done with the other Japanese modules, which is to adapt them to multiple languages. Honestly, I have no idea why you would suggest that. Theknightwho (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed with @Theknightwho. I tried to do that, but I don't know Lua and got reverted by @Chuck Entz. Chuterix (talk) 17:46, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * : I reverted you for two reasons: 1) There were errors that looked like they would affect all 42,000 transclusions and I don't know how to fix them- all I could do was revert to the state before the changes were made, and 2) Renaming "ja-pron" to just "pron" was a really bad idea. This isn't a general module that covers pronunciation in all languages, but one that covers specific writing systems. If someone ever does want to create a general module along those lines, the name would be already taken. It would be better to come up with a name that everyone can agree with before moving the module.
 * This wasn't a minor error: it broke all uses of the template (42,000 of them), and flooded CAT:E. Even after my revert fixed the errors, they were still flooding in there. I managed to purge a couple thousand entries before I fell asleep, but there were in excess of 7,000 more, and increasing by the minute. Meanwhile, there was a (probably) fixable module error in the Okinawan entry at 本 that was not addressed because there was no way to tell it apart from the errors from your edits. I spotted it at the time, but never got around to telling because I had this mess to deal with. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:20, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * BTW: there's an error at 欲しゃい that you need to fix (I think you used the wrong name in the module). Chuck Entz (talk) 18:26, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Chuck Entz I've fixed the error at : I merged Module:ryu-headword into Module:Jpan-headword (formerly Module:ja-headword, but now able to handle all Japonic languages). Module:ryu-headword had effectively been abandoned since it was forked back in 2019, and it looks like it was slightly more permissive with its parameters (i.e. it tried to guess which parameter was which based on the script, instead of just having fixed parameters). It's a feature that's gradually being phased out of East Asian templates, because it's a pointless waste of resources that causes lots of issues with edge cases where Latin letters are used in,   etc., such as.
 * The error at was caused by Chuterix forking Module:ja-see as Module:kzg-see, but without looking into the details I don't specifically know what the problem was. Much better to just wait until Module:ja-see has been converted into Module:Jpan-see so it can be done properly. Theknightwho (talk) 18:42, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Removed yomi code
Dear all, as per my recent bot action, all instances of the yomi parameter we deprecated a few months ago have been removed, so I got rid of the code that originally handled transcluding pages into the tracking template, as well as the straggling data structures used to match the parameters to the reading names. Kiril kovachev (talk) 09:59, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Custom accent
What about Kyoto, Kagoshima, Ryukyuan (for ), possibly other accents?

I've documented the accent info here; there's no falling pitch accent, initial 2 morae accent, nor unaccent in more than two morae. I have suggested this in Discord, but both theknightwho and Fish bowl (i contacted in WT) are unable to do this ATM.

We can put this in a collapsible section if someone says "we should put the dialectial accent info somewhere else because we should only focus on "standard" (tokyo) pronunciation". We're trying to make this like in the future and any contributions are highly appreciated.

A sample from (the dead account of) can be viewed at User:荒巻モロゾフ/draft.

Chuterix (talk) 23:30, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Add DJR4
Someone who has a right to edit Module:ja-pron, please add  in ref_template_name_data. <rb style="font-family:Optima">Lugria</rb><rt lang="ja" style="font-family:serif">ルグリア</rt> [会話／貢献] 06:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Add NKD2
Can we add as   to the reference? --TongcyDai (talk) 13:12, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Transcription of and
Pinging @Fish bowl @Eirikr @Poketalker @Lattermint @Chuterix @Nardog Currently, we transcribe as  ( with ),  after non-palatalising consonants as  ( with compression and frontedness) and moraic  before vowels and semivowels as  (nasalised voiced velar approximant). I suggest that we transcribe as   and  as  (the same, but without the compression). Theknightwho (talk) 07:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) According to this paper, which did real-time MRI tests on speakers,  is a closer approximation to the actual sound produced for . Quoting from the conclusion: "The results of the current study show that it is misleading to use the IPA symbol  for Japanese . Note also that it is even more misleading to use  instead, because there is little evidence to interpret Japanese  as a velar consonant." (Emphasis mine.)
 * 2) It's not clear that  for  is more accurate than, as the two appear to be in free variation. For instance, Japanese phonology gives two citations for each, which all check out. I'm unconvinced that such a fine distinction is appropriate in a general phonetic transcription such as the one we aim to give (as opposed to transcriptions of idiolects, for example), so I see no compelling reason for us to use the busier transcription.
 * 3) Distinguishing between,  and  is extremely difficult, bordering on impossible, particularly when more than one appears in the same transcription, and even more particularly when they appear next to each other. Some examples:
 * : . New suggestion:.
 * : . New suggestion:.
 * 1) The worst possible case, found on Japanese WP: :  (literally unreadable, unless you're a robot). New suggestion:.
 * 2) It's not ideal to use  for compression anyway, because it isn't actually part of the IPA, but an informal extension.

 * Whatever is confirmed accurate, I seem to accept it. I don't do much on standard Japanese phonology. Chuterix (talk) 07:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Your suggestion of using certainly seems sensible, especially given the results in the paper you linked, and the IPA examples listed above. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think it would also be sensible to adapt the moraic nasal based on surrounding phonology, too, since (no doubt aped from WP) is explicitly said to be broad transcription, which is at odds with the very narrow transcription we use for everything else. This has a very detailed analysis, among other papers. Theknightwho (talk) 00:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * And Maekawa (2023) based on the same data as the paper you based on for using [β̞]. Nardog (talk) 06:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Nardog Thank you. Do you have any suggestions for how we should deal with (admittedly rare) cases such as, and so on? I am sceptical that  is an accurate representation, but I can't really find anything that focuses on the phonetics beyond representing it as simply  (or similar). It's usually only touched on briefly to note that it's a rare phenomenon that existed historically, and that it crops up in the occasional loanword, but the papers which go into more detail do so from the perspective of orthography. Theknightwho (talk) 12:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That's neither here nor there for me, given any velarization can be argued as coarticulation/gestural overlap with [k, ɡ]. I wouldn't make an exception for them, to reduce the amount of code to maintain. Nardog (talk) 16:48, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Nardog I'm doing a major rewrite of the whole pronunciation code which should make it much easier to specify/keep track of complex interactions between phonemes, so I wouldn't worry about maintenance issues, as I have that in hand. I'm just keen to make sure we accurately represent things, even with edge-cases. Theknightwho (talk) 21:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * But using [β̞] is more theoretically sound also. Velarization is expected in a transition from a velar occlusive to a continuant. That's not allophony, just coarticulation. Nardog (talk) 11:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Template talk:ja-pron


text:
unassessability

Noun

 * 1) The state or characteristic of being incapable of being assessed, evaluated, or pondered.
 * 2) * 1966, John Portz, "A Composition Institute," New Trends in English Education-Selected Addresses Delivered at the Conference on English Education, vol. 4, National Council of Teachers of English, p. 77 (Google search result):
 * I also admit to a certain suspicion of evaluations, partly out of ignorance of the techniques and the machinery involved, and partly out of a perverse pride in the slowly dying academic legend about the royal subjectivity and therefore unassessability of the English discipline—especially where writing is concerned.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: unassessability


text:
krigsskip

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  a warship

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  a warship

title: krigsskip


text:
ᐅᐃᕖᑎᑐᓪᓗ

Noun

 * 1) French (language)

title: ᐅᐃᕖᑎᑐᓪᓗ


text: krigsskipet

title: krigsskipet


text: ほっかい

title: ほっかい


text: Hokkai

title: Hokkai


text: Běihǎi

title: Běihǎi


text: krigsskipa

title: krigsskipa


text: krigsskipene

title: krigsskipene


text:
flyvåpen

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) an air force

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) an air force

title: flyvåpen


text: γλαῦκα

title: γλαῦκα


text:
Beihai

Etymology
The atonal romanization of the.

Translations

 * Chinese:
 * Cantonese: 北海
 * Mandarin:
 * Japanese:
 * Korean:
 * Russian: Бэйхай

title: Beihai


text: flyvåpenet

title: flyvåpenet


text: flyvåpna

title: flyvåpna


text: flyvåpnene

title: flyvåpnene


text: flyvåpena

title: flyvåpena


text:
абревіатура

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) abbreviation

title: абревіатура


text: kolidž

title: kolidž


text:
päivitys

Noun

 * 1) update

title: päivitys


text:
eggcellent

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1)  Excellent, when referring to eggs or Easter.

title: eggcellent


text:
Uromastyx

Etymology
, alteration of Uromastix, from +. Compare

Hypernyms

 * ; - subfamily

Hyponyms

 * - type species;, , , , , , , , , , , , , - other species

title: Uromastyx


text: cimbali

title: cimbali


text:
абрэвіятура

Noun

 * 1) abbreviation

title: абрэвіятура


text: Category:Galician terms prefixed with tele-


text: televisións

title: televisións


text: Template:ko-verb

title: Template:ko-verb


text: Category:Slovene terms derived from Spanish


text: Category:Slovene terms derived from Quechua


text: Category:Slovene terms derived from Quechuan languages


text: Template:ko-adj

title: Template:ko-adj


text:
기다랗다

Adjective

 * 1) to be quite long

title: 기다랗다


text:
kansiportaat

Noun

 * 1)  companionway staircase or ladder from one deck to another on a ship

title: kansiportaat


text:
wanu

Etymology
Using the "fruit, small round object" classifier.

Noun

 * 1) coconut

Noun

 * 1) manure, dung, fertilizer, guano

Usage notes
Not to be confused with.

title: wanu


text:
waro

Noun

 * 1) rope

Noun

 * 1) water

Noun

 * 1) water

Etymology
From.

Numeral

 * 1) eight

Noun

 * 1) coal

Verb

 * 1)  to know to be aware; to be cognizant of sth
 * 2)  to know to understand or have a grasp of through experience or study

title: waro


text: méitàn

title: méitàn


text:
pöpilä

Noun

 * 1) nutfarm, funny farm

title: pöpilä


text:
kulkuluukku

Noun

 * 1)  booby hatch small hatchway in the deck of a ship

title: kulkuluukku


text:
strúz

Etymology
Borrowed from, from.

Noun

 * 1) ostrich

Descendants

 * Norwegian:
 * Norwegian:
 * Norwegian:
 * Norwegian:

title: strúz


text: πολιτείας

title: πολιτείας


text: πολιτειών

title: πολιτειών


text: πολιτείες

title: πολιτείες


text:
galguear

Verb

 * 1)  to be hungry

title: galguear


text:
gandujar

Verb

 * 1)  to pleat
 * 2)  to shirr

title: gandujar


text:
Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014
More Piles Of Crap. Also nominating Appendix:When They Cry, Appendix:The Mask, Appendix:The Fairly OddParents and basically everything in Category:Appendices of works of fiction that looks like a Big Pile Of Crap Created By Daniel Carrero (BPOCCBDC). --ElisaVan (talk) 11:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Delete the four appendices that you have named. (And probably the others, but I haven't looked.) Equinox ◑ 20:33, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Toontown seems like something that might used without specific reference to WFRR, but that's about it. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 22:42, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete all. Wiktionary's job is not to house all information, no matter how irrelevant. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Delete the four pages you name, and Appendix:Avatar: The Last Airbender, and Appendix:Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-Chan, and indeed everything else in the category you name except Appendix:A Clockwork Orange and Appendix:Harry Potter and its subpages. - -sche (discuss) 17:23, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Appendix:Roger Rabbit, Appendix:When They Cry, Appendix:The Mask, Appendix:The Fairly OddParents, Appendix:Avatar: The Last Airbender, Appendix:Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-Chan, Appendix:The Mask, Appendix:The Life and Times of Juniper Lee, Appendix:SpongeBob SquarePants, Appendix:Serial Experiments Lain; keep Appendix:A Clockwork Orange. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:44, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Please delete them. Sorry for the trouble. --Daniel 11:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Deleted most of them today. Equinox ◑ 12:29, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

title: Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit


text:
Category talk:Disputed territories

RFDO discussion: March–April 2014
And its subcategories. This is a dictionary, not a political forum. --WikiTiki89 18:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. — Ungoliant (falai) 19:45, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Deleted. —msh210℠ (talk) 14:18, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Disputed territories


text:
Appendix talk:When They Cry

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.

title: Appendix talk:When They Cry


text:
Appendix talk:The Mask

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.

title: Appendix talk:The Mask


text:
Appendix talk:The Fairly OddParents

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.

title: Appendix talk:The Fairly OddParents


text:
Appendix talk:The Life and Times of Juniper Lee

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.


text:
Appendix talk:Avatar: The Last Airbender

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.


text:
Appendix talk:Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-Chan

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.


text:
Appendix talk:SpongeBob SquarePants

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.

title: Appendix talk:SpongeBob SquarePants


text:
Appendix talk:Serial Experiments Lain

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.

title: Appendix talk:Serial Experiments Lain


text:
Appendix talk:Harry Potter

Concordance talk:Harry Potter
How does this belong to Wiktionary? -- Prince Kassad 21:46, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems to be copied from a (deleted?) Wikipedia article, including all the templates that appear as red links. Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Copy the Potter-specific words in the TOC into the concordance, I suppose, and then delete. — msh210 ℠ 16:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC
 * Deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:43, 12 June 2010 (UTC))

RFDO discussion: November 2013–April 2014

 * See Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit.

RFDO discussion: December 2016–September 2017
...and subpages. I don't think we should have appendices for fiction when the individual listed words would fail WT:FICTION. I see this as a vanity project by a fan who didn't really think about its relevance to Wiktionary. Most of these were deleted as a result of Appendix talk:Roger Rabbit, but User:-sche, at least, voted to keep this one. We also have links to the appendix from mainspace (e.g. expelliarmus), which to me seems like a sneaky way to get HP words into mainspace even when they shouldn't be there. Equinox ◑ 20:29, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. Harmless. Might be helpful to someone who really doesn't know which words are coinages from the books. bd2412 T 03:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete this and other appendices of fictional universes; any moderately-sizable fandom will inevitably make their own wiki. Yes, I know CFI does not disallow these appendices.__Gamren (talk) 09:25, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * These appendices also prevent endless debates as to whether the vocabulary of these fictional worlds meets CFI, when those fandoms try to make mainspace entries from them. bd2412 T 18:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Delete. This is fansite material. It is not appropriate for a dictionary. Any terms coined in HP that can be shown to have escaped that Universe and entered general use should have dictionary entries. The rest should be deleted. Mihia (talk) 20:15, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * As it stands, Delete. I could see some value in this if it gave the etymologies of the words along the lines of Appendix:A Clockwork Orange (For example, pointing that Crucio is from the Latin crucio, that Pensieve is a pun on pensive and sieve), but there's no lexicographical info here as it stands. Smurrayinchester (talk) 12:25, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. I created most of that stuff. This is false: "who didn't really think about its relevance to Wiktionary". Fandom stuff was one of my first large projects here, therefore I thought about it. Fandom terms are nice. If other people don't want fandom terms here, I'll respect their right to govern Wiktionary too, and based on their judgement (not my judgement) we can delete these pages. However, I personally support having these pages. There are still thousands of other series, cartoons, comics, books and movies without appendices here. If people decide it's OK to create these appendices, I think it would be great. Naturally, I'm only talking about those works of fiction that have terms specific to them, like "lightsaber". (there are probably other thousands of works of fiction that didn't invent any new words) On the other hand, I'd also support limiting fiction appendices to terms that are used in 3 durably-archived quotations, and therefore I probably wouldn't want to create appendices just because the term appeared in the original book or film. Wikipedia, Wikiquote, and apparently Wikibooks (Muggles' Guide to Harry Potter) have pages about works of fiction. Wiktionary should too, at least as appendices. That is, at least, my opinion. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 12:51, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Addendum: If we decide to keep appendices for a great number of words invented in fiction, we have some naming options like 1) one appendix per work, like the current Appendix:Harry Potter, 2) a few appendices containing many titles at once, probably organized alphabetically, like Appendix:Fictional words/H including Harry Potter, 3) probably other variations are possible instead of those, like by author, country, type of work (book, video game, movie). --Daniel Carrero (talk) 07:52, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per BD2412 and Daniel Carrero. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 06:33, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Likewise Keep per BD2412. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 21:00, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * RFD kept as no consensus. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 08:00, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Deletions
Three Harry Potter appendices hav been deleted! (I think they ar “Spells”, “Places”, and “Events”.) Why? These appendices ar there for a reason: they ar useful for anyone looking up Harry Potter terminology, just as the main namespace is useful for general terminology. And there is very strong precedent for Wiktionary (WT) content outside of the main namespace; for instance, reconstructed terms, such as in Category:Proto-Indo-European lemmas.

This seems like a war on Harry Potter! (It is well known that some people object to HP on religious grounds; see ) As proof of the overwhelming prominence of the HP series: each of the last four HP books – ', ', ', and ' – set a new record for the fastest-selling book of all time. (See .) And when looking up Hermione Granger on Google (incl. Google Image), i just write “Hermione”; almost all results refer to her.

Mor signs of a war on HP, include the removal, from Wikipedia:“”, of any reference to, even tho she is, nowadays, like it or not, overwhelmingly the most common use of the name “Hermione”! (And almost certainly will be, for the foreseeable future.) (I discussed, on Wikipedia [WP], said repeated removal; i was told there was an edit was about it. Wikipedians agreed with me that said reference in said disambiguation page, should be included.)

Also, on the WT article “Hermione”, my additions of any reference to Hermione Granger hav been repeatedly removed. This censorship of all references to her, creates multiple double standards!
 * The WT article “Robin” (proper name, not to be confused with the article “robin” [bird]), links to the WP article “” (in ), and also links to WT article “Robin Hood”, and is placed in Category:en:Fictional characters. It wouldn’t hurt if the WT article “Hermione” likewise had a link to WP:“Hermione Granger”; it is not uncommon for a WT article to hav two, sometimes three or mor, links to WP articles with same or similar name. Likewise, the WT article “Hermione” could appropriately be placed in both Category:en:Fictional characters and Category:en:Harry Potter.
 * I added, to the WT article “walker”, the usage note, that the meaning ‘zombie’ is used mainly in . But i added, to the WT article “Hermione”, a usage note that said name nowadays usually refers to Hermione Granger. This usage note should be okay, on the same basis as the one for “walker”.
 * See Category:en:William Shakespeare. Many articles in it, refer to Shakespeare characters. Shouldn’t articles on HP characters be included in Category:en:Harry Potter on a comparable basis? Is not having the article “Hermione” in Category:en:Harry Potter, much different from not having articles like “Juliet” or “Desdemona” in Category:en:William Shakespeare? Indeed, if you Google “Juliet”, the portion of results that do not refer to Juliet of , will be much higher that the portion of results that don’t refer to Hermione Granger, if you Google “Hermione”.
 * On my User Talk page, someone wrote, in arguing against my adding the article “Hermione” to Category:en:Harry Potter, “Maybe famous old Greek mythology, but not recent pop culture like Harry Potter.” (Refers to Hermione of Greek mythology; hence the WT article “Hermione” is placed in Category:en:Greek mythology.) This argument (against putting said WT article in Category:en:Harry Potter) is very hypocritical, given that Hermione Granger is nowadays overwhelmingly mor famous (and almost certainly will be for the foreseeable future) that Hermione of Greek mythology.
 * Another Wiktionarian, protesting the same issue, wrote on my User Talk page, “If there is not a definition for a fictional character, then categories related to that character are not welcome.” But, as i said, the WT article “Robin” (again, capital R), is in Category:en:Fictional characters, even tho said article does not explicitly giv a definition referring to a fictional character (there is, however, aforementioned link to WP). Likewise, the articles “Wenceslas” / “Wenceslaus” (spelling variants of the same name) ar both placed in Category:en:Christmas, even tho neither article has, in itself, anything related to the Christmas (there is the famous Christmas carol “”). The article “partridge” is also placed in said category, even tho it also has no information linking it to Christmas (the Christmas carol “” says, “a partridge in a pear tree”). There are a number of other articles on proper names, that ar placed in “Category:en:_” even tho there is no definition explicitly linking said name to said topic (see Category:en:List of topics).

I get the argument, that if we put a WT article on a name into “Category:en:[Topic]” just because said name is that of someone or something related to said topic, we could get overcategorization – the same article could be placed in far too many (topic) categories. For instance, the article “Neville” probably does not belong in Category:en:Harry Potter, just because of HP character ; it is not clear that he is the primary (i.e. most common or most famous) use of said term; there was, for instance,. But for having the article “Hermione”, in Category:en:Harry Potter, this argument is easily overcome: as i said, Hermione Granger is overwhelmingly the most famous use of said name.

Sorry if my post is long, but i had a number of points that i wanted to air.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 00:32, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Luna
Another issue about Wiktionary's coverage of Harry Potter: should a Wiktionary article titled “Luna Lovegood” be created? (See the Wikipedia article “”.) The term “Luna Lovegood” can be used as a verb: www.dictionary.com/e/fictional-characters/luna-lovegood “Luna Lovegood”. Examples given on said website: Said website says, “Luna Lovegood’s name is sometimes used as a verb among fans of the Harry Potter series. Luna Lovegooding can mean to behave in an absentminded way or to be eccentric. Often it refers to a combination of both that encompasses the character’s mix of confidence, dreamy demeanor, and unconventional belief system.” [Italics as in original.]
 * “She isn’t even fazed! This girl is straight Luna Lovegooding right now.”
 * “harry styles is just luna lovegooding his way through life.”

Said website has a footnote: “This is not meant to be a formal definition... like most terms... on Dictionary.com, but is rather an informal word summary that hopefully touches upon the key aspects of the meaning and usage of Luna Lovegood that will help our users expand their word mastery.” Solomonfromfinland (talk) 17:41, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

 * lol, you shouldn't trust Web sites. Equinox ◑ 04:56, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, a Wiktionary article "Luna Lovegood" (with said meaning) probably should not be created unless said meaning is attested on other sources (Wiktionary terms ar supposed to hav three separate attestations; see Criteria for inclusion). Especially since i hav a suspicion that dictionary.com is not a very reliable source. Solomonfromfinland (talk) 04:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Category rename
I created “Category:en:Harry Potter appendices”. However, i think it should be renamed “Category:Harry Potter appendices”. (I chose not to put hyperlinks here because i think red links look ugly.) After all, i believ in concision, and i also created “Category:Star Wars appendices” and “Category:J. R. R. Tolkien appendices” (with said category titles, without the “en:” part); so the “en:” part should be unnecessary for said Harry Potter category as well. Btw, these three categories of appendices for a specific fiction series or author, hav the benefit of decluttering “Category:Appendices of works of fiction”, as well as the respectiv categories: Category:en:Harry Potter, Category:en:Star Wars, and Category:en:J. R. R. Tolkien. Therefor said three categories of appendices, should be kept. Solomonfromfinland (talk) 04:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Appendix talk:Harry Potter


text:
gangrenar

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1)  to cause gangrene in, to necrotize
 * 2)  to become gangrenous, to necrose
 * 3)  to corrupt, to deprave, to pervert

Verb

 * 1)  to gangrene
 * 2)  to be gangrenous

title: gangrenar


text:
άστυ

Etymology
From the.

Noun

 * 1)  of town or city

title: άστυ


text: 奸情

title: 奸情


text:
姦情

Adjective

 * 1) adulterous

Noun

 * 1) adultery

title: 姦情


text: jiānqíng

title: jiānqíng


text:
通姦

Verb

 * 1) to commit adultery

title: 通姦


text: 通奸

title: 通奸


text:
κλεινόν άστυ

Noun

 * 1) Athens

title: κλεινόν άστυ


text: tōngjiān

title: tōngjiān


text:
martwica

Etymology
..

Noun

 * 1)  necrosis
 * 2)  decline, disappearance, slump, stagnation
 * 3)  infertile soil beneath the topsoil, usually compacted and devoid of microorganisms
 * 4)  sinter
 * 1)  infertile soil beneath the topsoil, usually compacted and devoid of microorganisms
 * 2)  sinter

title: martwica


text:
νικήτρια

Noun

 * 1) winner, victor

title: νικήτρια


text:
civil rightist

Noun

 * 1) A proponent of civil rights.

title: civil rightist


text:
νικητήριος

Adjective

 * 1) winning, relating to victory

title: νικητήριος


text:
abblasen

Verb

 * 1)  to call off (performance, party)

title: abblasen


text:
νικηφόρος

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1) bringing victory
 * 2) victorious
 * 3) Uppercase (Νῑκηφόρος), the name of a Roman Emperor,

Etymology
, equivalent to.

Adjective

 * 1) victorious

title: νικηφόρος


text:
νικιέμαι

Verb

 * Older form:
 * Older form:

title: νικιέμαι


text: νικήθηκα

title: νικήθηκα


text:
ἀγράμματος

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) without learning, unlettered, illiterate
 * 2)  unable to utter articulate sounds
 * 3)  inarticulate
 * 1)  unable to utter articulate sounds
 * 2)  inarticulate
 * 1)  unable to utter articulate sounds
 * 2)  inarticulate
 * 1)  unable to utter articulate sounds
 * 2)  inarticulate
 * 1)  unable to utter articulate sounds
 * 2)  inarticulate
 * 1)  unable to utter articulate sounds
 * 2)  inarticulate
 * 1)  inarticulate
 * 1)  inarticulate

title: ἀγράμματος


text: Category:el:Poisons

title: Category:el:Poisons


text:
Pithovirus

Etymology
From + 🇨🇬.

Usage notes

 * Not included in ICTV 2019.

title: Pithovirus


text:
trossi

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  hawser heavy rope used to tow or moor a ship

title: trossi


text: afslagen

title: afslagen


text: afslagje

title: afslagje


text: afslagjes

title: afslagjes


text:
Müllverbrennung

Noun

 * 1) waste incineration

title: Müllverbrennung


text:
умело

Adverb

 * 1) ably, skillfully with great ability

title: умело


text:
maldeveloped

Adjective

 * 1) developed in an improper or faulty way

title: maldeveloped


text:
искусно

Adverb

 * 1) in an experienced way

Adverb

 * 1) ably, skillfully with great ability

title: искусно


text:
Müllverbrennungsanlage

Noun

 * 1) waste incinerator

title: Müllverbrennungsanlage


text: mal-developed

title: mal-developed


text: MVA

title: MVA


text:
ненормально

Adverb

 * 1) abnormally in an abnormal manner

title: ненормально


text:
аномально

Adverb

 * 1) anomalously, abnormally in an abnormal manner

title: аномально


text:
լայնալիճ

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) broad, wide, well-bent of a bow

Noun

 * 1)  bow

title: լայնալիճ


text:
неохотно

Adverb

 * 1) unwillingly in an unwilling manner

title: неохотно


text:
afroportoghese

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Afro-Portuguese

title: afroportoghese


text:
kattotuoli

Noun

 * 1)  roof truss

title: kattotuoli


text:
agrozootecnia

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) the science and technology associated with agriculture and animal husbandry

title: agrozootecnia


text: amharico

title: amharico


text: anfetaminica

title: anfetaminica


text:
angolese

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Angolan

title: angolese


text:
fîl

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) thread

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) elephant

title: fîl


text: aftredingen

title: aftredingen


text:
repozytorium

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1)  repository

title: repozytorium


text: afvoertje

title: afvoertje


text: afvoertjes

title: afvoertjes


text:
күлдәк

Etymology
From.

Cognate with 🇨🇬; 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, etc.

Noun

 * 1) shirt
 * 2) dress, gown
 * 1) dress, gown

title: күлдәк


text:
oubliëtte

Etymology
Borrowed from, from.

Noun

 * 1) a dungeon only accessible by a trapdoor at the top; an oubliette

title: oubliëtte


text: agentschappen

title: agentschappen


text: agentschapje

title: agentschapje


text: agentschapjes

title: agentschapjes


text:
vergeetput

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) oubliette

title: vergeetput


text: animaleschi

title: animaleschi


text: oublietti

title: oublietti


text: agglomeratietje

title: agglomeratietje


text: agglomeratietjes

title: agglomeratietjes


text:
Citations:memory hole

 * 1) A figurative place to which information is deliberately sent to be forgotten, or to which forgotten or lost information ends up; nowhere, oblivion.
 * 2) * 1984, Kenneth S. Lynn, The Air-Line to Seattle, University of Chicago Press ISBN 9780226498331, page 163
 * ... in order to argue that the trials had been eminently just, so in The Golden Mountains he has not hesitated to consign unpleasant facts about what he said and did in the thirties to an Orwellian memory hole.
 * 1) * 1991, Arthur Lipow, Authoritarian Socialism in America: Edward Bellamy and the Nationalist Movement, University of California Press ISBN 9780520075436, page 16
 * Welcome though such a conclusion might be, it is not possible to regard seventy years as an episode and the experience must not be allowed to drop into a convenient memory hole.
 * 1) * 1993, Irving Louis Horowitz, The Conscience of Worms and the Cowardice of Lions: Cuban Politics and Culture in an American Context, Transaction Publishers ISBN 9781412836319, page 29
 * The fact that before Castro Cuba was third in Latin America in rail and road construction, second in per capita income, and one of the leaders in health and welfare measures was dropped conveniently into the memory hole.
 * 1) * 1998, Catherine Wanner, Burden of Dreams: History and Identity in Post-Soviet Ukraine, Penn State Press ISBN 9780271017938, page 154
 * Although the Famine of 1932-33 had been swept down the Orwellian "memory hole" by Soviet authorities, by the end of the 1980s, such taboo events became legitimate topics of historical inquiry.
 * 1) * 2000, Eugen Weber, Apocalypses: Prophecies, Cults, and Millennial Beliefs Through the Ages, Harvard University Press ISBN 9780674003958, page 206
 * In 1952, an Oxford scholar, C.S. Lewis, creator of Narnia and The Screwtape Letters, had written an essay on "The World's Last Night" that took issue with the memory hole in which the Apocalypse had lapsed:
 * 1) * 2003, Richard G. Hovannisian, Looking Backward, Moving Forward: Confronting the Armenian Genocide, Transaction Publishers ISBN 9781412827676, page 3
 * This volume considers how the Armenian Genocide may be contextualized from a temporal distance of nearly a century. The theme itself implies that the issue remains current, that it has not disappeared down a memory hole, that it cries out for an answer and a solution.
 * 1) * 2004, Daniel Pipes, Miniatures: Views of Islamic and Middle Eastern Politics, Transaction Publishers ISBN 9780765802156, page 33
 * Perhaps because only six people died then, perhaps because the bombing was not accompanied or followed by other incidents, that episode disappeared down the memory hole.
 * 1) * 2004, David A. Neiwert, Death on the Fourth of July, Palgrave Macmillan ISBN 9781403965011, page 208
 * And cultural dispositions keep them from being squarely confronted by the communities themselves. When that happens, they often fade into the region's memory hole within a few short weeks.
 * 1) * 2006, Philip Rieff, My Life Among the Deathworks, University of Virginia Press ISBN 9780813925165, page 106
 * ... of our abolitionist/abortionist movements, identities are to be flushed as away far down the memory hole as our flush-away technologies of repression permit.
 * 1) * 2006, Cynthia Ozick, The Din in the Head, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt ISBN 9780547561509, page 192
 * Consequently Lelyveld's memory loop becomes a memory hole, through which everything that is not factually retrievable escapes. Memory, at bottom, is an act of imaginative recreation, not of archival legwork.
 * 1) * 2008, Hugh Hewitt, The War Against the West, Xulon Press ISBN 9781612159348, page 275
 * Is there any burden that they bear, vis-à-vis the second pending holocaust as a result of that? Or has that gone down the memory hole?
 * 1) * 2008, Ginger Strand, Inventing Niagara, Simon and Schuster ISBN 9781416546566, page 304
 * All hail librarians! Without them, all of civilization— excepting those I Love Lucy episodes still zinging around space and the increasingly bloated compendium of fact, factoids and fakery known as Google's main index— would surely vanish down the memory hole.
 * 1) * 2010, Derek Leebaert, Magic and Mayhem, Simon and Schuster ISBN 9781439141670, page 62
 * Meanwhile, the Vietnam war, which had ended with Saigon's collapse in April 1975, quickly slid down the memory hole, much like its Korean predecessor.
 * 1) * 2011, Steven Mosher, Population Control: Real Costs, Illusory Benefits, Transaction Publishers ISBN 9781412812436, page 137
 * “These things could not have happened,” he bluntly asserted during an interview with PRI investigator David Morrison on 29 January 1998, sending the suffering of these and countless other women down the memory hole.
 * 1) * 2011, Louis Menashe, Moscow Believes in Tears: Russians and Their Movies, New Academia Publishing, LLC ISBN 9780984583225, page 43
 * Major events and developments could be consigned to an Orwellian memory hole if they didn't conform to current politics and propaganda—
 * 1) * 2011, Iain Murray, Stealing You Blind: How Government Fat Cats Are Getting Rich Off of You, Regnery Publishing ISBN 9781596982093, page 70
 * If you ever thought that progressives wanted to send history down the memory hole, you might be right, because another aspect of the law was it prohibited old books from being sold to or used by children.
 * 1) * 2011, Steven Pinker, The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined, Penguin ISBN 9781101544648
 * This colossal amnesia and ingratitude is possible because of the natural whitewashing of history that we saw in chapter 1, in which the reality behind the atrocities of yesteryear is consigned to the memory hole and is remembered only in bland idioms and icons.
 * 1) * 2011, Terry Castle, The Professor: And Other Writings, Atlantic Books Ltd ISBN 9780857893123, page 157
 * I doubted I would unearth much, though; given the esoteric nature of her recording career, I assumed Dobkin had been sucked down a cultural memory hole more abyssal even than the one that had engulfed the ukulele-strumming Tiny Tim—
 * 1) * 2012, Robert Buchar, And Reality Be Damned..., Strategic Book Publishing ISBN 9781618978394, page 79
 * There was plenty of data, all sorts of facts, that almost every federal and state agency wanted to look at. Nothing ever happened. All was pushed down the memory hole.
 * 1) * 2013, Noam Chomsky, Understanding Power: The Indispensible Chomsky, The New Press ISBN 9781595585882
 * And it just goes on from there: the United States was unwilling to support any of these peace offers, so they're out of history, they're down Orwell's memory hole.
 * 1) * 2013, Bill Moyers, Bill Moyers Journal: The Conversation Continues, The New Press ISBN 9781595586889
 * George Orwell talked about important knowledge like that being flushed down the memory hole. When that happens, the people in power can rule without any reference to the past.
 * 1) A fragment of physical address space which does not map to main memory.
 * 2) * 2000, root, [//groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/rAVnENxU36U/LnE4eGjFgf0J freeing Null pointer retruned by strkok], comp.lang.c, Usenet
 * What happens when I (1) dynamically allocate memory, (2) initialize it with a string, (3) pass this string to strtok, then (4) free the allocated area? Is this memory released or is this now a huge memory hole??
 * 1) * 2000, root, [//groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/rAVnENxU36U/LnE4eGjFgf0J freeing Null pointer retruned by strkok], comp.lang.c, Usenet
 * What happens when I (1) dynamically allocate memory, (2) initialize it with a string, (3) pass this string to strtok, then (4) free the allocated area? Is this memory released or is this now a huge memory hole??
 * 1) * 2000, root, [//groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/rAVnENxU36U/LnE4eGjFgf0J freeing Null pointer retruned by strkok], comp.lang.c, Usenet
 * What happens when I (1) dynamically allocate memory, (2) initialize it with a string, (3) pass this string to strtok, then (4) free the allocated area? Is this memory released or is this now a huge memory hole??
 * 1) * 2000, root, [//groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/rAVnENxU36U/LnE4eGjFgf0J freeing Null pointer retruned by strkok], comp.lang.c, Usenet
 * What happens when I (1) dynamically allocate memory, (2) initialize it with a string, (3) pass this string to strtok, then (4) free the allocated area? Is this memory released or is this now a huge memory hole??

title: Citations:memory hole


text: agitaties

title: agitaties


text: agitatietje

title: agitatietje


text: agitatietjes

title: agitatietjes


text:
نوش

Etymology
From, from , from 🇰🇲, the latter from , from. Related to 🇨🇬, an Iranian borrowing. Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) ambrosia, nectar
 * 2) elixir
 * 3) antidote

Etymology
, derived from, from , ultimately from.

Noun

 * 1) nectar, ambrosia, water of life
 * 2) elixir, antidote, heal-all
 * 3) drink, beverage
 * 4) honey
 * 5) life
 * 6) gift, reward

title: نوش


text: musta torvisieni

title: musta torvisieni


text:
пӏащӏэ

Adjective

 * 1) thin

title: пӏащӏэ


text: alfabeetje

title: alfabeetje


text: alfabeetjes

title: alfabeetjes


text:
ulokepalkki

Noun

 * 1)  cantilever beam anchored at one end and projecting into space

title: ulokepalkki


text: ubåter

title: ubåter


text: ubåtene

title: ubåtene


text: Category:Dutch terms prefixed with an-

title: Category:Dutch terms prefixed with an-


text: analfabeetje

title: analfabeetje


text: analfabeetjes

title: analfabeetjes


text: ubåtane

title: ubåtane


text: båter

title: båter


text: båtene

title: båtene


text:
antiretrovirale

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) antiretroviral

title: antiretrovirale


text:
retrovirale

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) retroviral

title: retrovirale


text:
autocelebrativo

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) self-aggrandizing

title: autocelebrativo


text: suenos

title: suenos


text:
autodichiararsi

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to declare oneself, call oneself

title: autodichiararsi


text:
نوش‌دارو

Etymology
From, from.

Noun

 * 1) elixir
 * 2) antidote
 * 3) panacea; heal-all

title: نوش‌دارو


text:
autogenico

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) autogenic

title: autogenico


text: batimetrica

title: batimetrica


text: batimetrici

title: batimetrici


text: batimetriche

title: batimetriche


text:
origliamento

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) eavesdropping
 * 2) overhearing

title: origliamento


text: traqueteos

title: traqueteos


text:
beciuano

Adjective

 * 1)  Bechuana

title: beciuano


text:
buceador

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) diving

Noun

 * 1) diver someone who dives underwater

title: buceador


text:
Beciuania

Proper noun

 * 1) Bechuanaland

title: Beciuania


text: buceadora

title: buceadora


text: buceadoras

title: buceadoras


text: buceadores

title: buceadores


text:
undervannsbåt

Etymology
From, a calque of.

Noun

 * 1) a submarine

title: undervannsbåt


text:
boscimana

Noun

 * 1) Bushwoman;

title: boscimana


text:
inmediación

Noun

 * 1) immediacy
 * 2)  proximity
 * 3)  surrounding areas
 * 1)  surrounding areas

title: inmediación


text: inmediaciones

title: inmediaciones


text:
ҡарағат

Etymology
From, composed of +.

Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) currant (the bush and berry)

title: ҡарағат


text: Template:es-IPA

title: Template:es-IPA


text:
conyugal

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) conjugal, relating to marriage

title: conyugal


text: cartografando

title: cartografando


text: cartografante

title: cartografante


text:
cartografare

Verb

 * 1) to map

title: cartografare


text:
cartografato

Adjective

 * 1) mapped

title: cartografato


text: cartografati

title: cartografati


text: cartografata

title: cartografata


text:
conyugalidad

Noun

 * 1) conjugality, the state of being married

title: conyugalidad


text: cartografa

title: cartografa


text: cartografiamo

title: cartografiamo


text: cartografate

title: cartografate


text: cartografano

title: cartografano


text: conyugales

title: conyugales


text: cartografavo

title: cartografavo


text: conyugalidades

title: conyugalidades


text: cartografavi

title: cartografavi


text: cartografava

title: cartografava


text: cartografavamo

title: cartografavamo


text: cartografavate

title: cartografavate


text:
cordialidad

Noun

 * 1) cordiality

title: cordialidad


text: cartografavano

title: cartografavano


text: cartografai

title: cartografai


text: cartografasti

title: cartografasti


text: cartografò

title: cartografò


text: cartografammo

title: cartografammo


text: cartografaste

title: cartografaste


text:
discapacidad

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) disability

title: discapacidad


text: cartografarono

title: cartografarono


text: cartograferò

title: cartograferò


text:
Template:es-IPA/documentation

This template uses Module:es-pronunc to convert from spelling to pronunciation.

Parameters
Normally, call this template with no parameters, and it will automatically generate the pronunciation for the page name.

NOTE: The invocation of should occur on a line by itself. Do not put a bullet mark before it. The bullet mark is generated by the template.

 * 1
 * Phonetic respelling of word or phrase. Needed for some terms whose pronunciation does not match the normal rules. It can also be used to specify the word or phrase to generate the pronunciation for, when used on a documentation or test page.

 * bullets
 * Number of bullet marks to place before the generated pronunciation. Defaults to 1.

 * pre
 * Text to place before the generated pronunciation.

 * post
 * Text to place after the generated pronunciation.

 * ref
 * Text to place after the generated pronunciation, but without a space between the pronunciation and the text. Intended for references.

 * style
 * Style restriction. If specified, only pronunciations for the matching style are generated. Examples of parameter values:
 * for distinción-only (as used in Spain, where s and c/z have different pronunciations);
 * for seseo-only (as used in Latin America, where s and c/z have the same pronunciations);
 * for lleismo-only (as used in parts of Spain and Latin America, where y and ll have different pronunciations);
 * for yeismo-only (as used in most of Spain and Latin America, where y and ll have the same pronunciations);
 * for rioplatense-only (Argentinian/Uruguayan accents);
 * for sheismo-only (as used in Buenos Aires, where y and ll are pronounced as );
 * for zheismo-only (as used in Argentina and Uruguay outside of Buenos Aires, where y and ll are pronounced as );
 * to suppress rioplatense accents;
 * to only indicate the accent that involves both distinción and lleismo.
 * to only include the accent that involves both seseo and lleismo.
 * In general, writing  restricts to only where both styles apply; writing   restricts to where either style applies; and   restricts to where the specified style does not apply. You can combine them, e.g.   means either the case where both   and   applies, or the case where   does not apply.

Distinción vs. seseo
For :

For :

title: Template:es-IPA/documentation


text: cartograferai

title: cartograferai


text: cartograferà

title: cartograferà


text: cartograferemo

title: cartograferemo


text: cartograferete

title: cartograferete


text: cartograferanno

title: cartograferanno


text: cartograferei

title: cartograferei


text: discapacidades

title: discapacidades


text: cartograferesti

title: cartograferesti


text: cartograferebbe

title: cartograferebbe


text: cartograferemmo

title: cartograferemmo


text: cartografereste

title: cartografereste


text: cartograferebbero

title: cartograferebbero


text: cartografiate

title: cartografiate


text:
milibar

Noun

 * 1) millibar non-SI unit of pressure

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) millibar

Noun

 * 1) millibar

title: milibar


text: cartografino

title: cartografino


text: cartografassi

title: cartografassi


text: milibares

title: milibares


text: cartografasse

title: cartografasse


text: cartografassimo

title: cartografassimo


text: cartografassero

title: cartografassero


text: parapléjica

title: parapléjica


text: parapléjicos

title: parapléjicos


text: parapléjicas

title: parapléjicas


text:
popero

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) pop music fan

Adjective

 * 1) pop; relating to pop music

title: popero


text: poperos

title: poperos


text:
recibimiento

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) reception

title: recibimiento