text:
Talk:Mitra

Proposal

 * I would like to move the material on the Persian/Zoroastrian Mitra into the Mithra article. From a comparative standpoint, I see no good reason for treating the Vedic Mitra and the Zoroastrian Mithra together.  There's no doubt that the deva and the yazata are the same in prehistoric origin, but by the time we get to verifiable history they are two separate deities with distinct developments.  The two articles should certainly recognize and link to each other, and have similar documentation of the common linguistic origin of the names, but it is excessively confusing to treat them together and intertwined.
 * Anybody feel differently? RandomCritic 08:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I have created the dab page Mitra (disambiguation). I have also merged all the material on Mithra at this page into the Mithra article, and reformatted this page to show the separation (and separability) of the material on Mitra, Mithra, and Mithras. In my opinion, everything below the double line could be deleted, or at least reduced to two very short paragraphs. RandomCritic 10:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Response

 * 1) Good idea with the move. Just do it (can always move back if this is problematic).
 * IMO, no need to bother with a disambiguation page because there are only two other names and although they are (near-)homonyms, only one of them is actually called Mitra, and the article that deals with that divinity in any depth is not Mitra but Mitra-Varuna. In other words, the Mitra page, when all the persian/roman stuff is gone, could either be the disambig page, ... or ... Mitra would be a redirect to Mitra-Varuna.
 * 1) In either case, all three articles (Mithra/Mitra-Varuna/Mithras) would only need simple dab lead pointing to the other two. eg:
 * -- Fullstop 12:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Do not revamp the whole page arbitrarily where Mithra is solely an Indic deity. It's in fact much more important, discussed and worshiped in Iran. Amir85 14:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry that you misunderstood these changes. First, there is an article for Mithra as distinct from Mitra.  Second, I did not delete any of the material about Mithra on this page, I merely separated the article into sections so that Mitra is in one part, Mithra is in another part, and Mithras in a third.  If you look down the page you will find all of the Mithra material is still there.  I am trying to open discussion on whether all of the Mithra material should be under "Mitra", or whether there should be a separate "Mithra" article with "Mitra" being mainly about the Vedic deity.
 * I have reverted to my last version per above. Please discuss before reverting.RandomCritic 16:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Well did you discuss at all when you created Mithra (Mitra is pronounced "Mitra" not "Mithra" in today's Persian) ? In my opinion the idea to make seperate pages for Mitra and Mithra is unscientific and ridiculous at best and it must switch back to its previous state. I'm going to call for merger. Amir85 18:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I did not create Mithra. I created a dab page. As for "unscientific" and "ridiculous" -- well, let's not go there. Let me just point out that there are lots of distinct articles for things which are etymologically related but culturally or physically distinct. For instance we have:

 * Yama vs. Jamshid
 * Deva (Hinduism) vs. Div (Persian mythology) (vs., say, Tyr)
 * Asura vs. Ahura (vs. Aesir)
 * About the only other article I can think of where the Indian and Iranian concepts are together is Soma = Haoma, and this is justifiable because presumably we're talking about the same physically verifiable plant. It's not possible to physically verify devas and yazatas; we can only discuss the different traditions about them. If those traditions are largely or wholly separate, it makes sense to treat them separately. At this point, the only place where Mitra and Mithra overlap is in discussions of etymology.

RandomCritic 19:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Mitra in Persian is "Mitra" not "Mithra", we must change accordingly asap. Amir85 21:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I am sorry that this bothers you so much, but the Modern Persian pronunciation of the Avestan Miθra (where the θ represents a symbol in Avestan script that represents, in the Avestan language, a sound identical to English "th") is not at all relevant. It would not make any difference if their names were identically spelled and pronounced, although as a matter of fact they are not. If your entire case is based on the pronunciation, it is not very sound.

 * The only question at hand is: are the Avestan Miθra and the Vedic Mitra the same person or not? Since we are dealing with religion and mythology, identity implies a strong similarity in functions, myths, and/or forms of worship, usually implying a common or shared cultural and religious context.

 * Now, we know that Zoroastrianism and Vedic Hinduism were different religions with very different practices and philosophies, and that whatever may have been true c. 2000 BCE, by the historical period Iranian and Indic cultures had evolved in very different directions. This creates an a priori case for separating Mitra and Miθra. The question we have to ask is whether despite these differences in cultural context, Miθra and Mitra so closely resemble each other in character, function or myth, that it would be unreasonable and unhelpful to treat them separately; i.e., that information about the Vedic Mitra is indispensable to understanding the role of Iranian Miθra and vice versa.

 * My impression is that a separate treatment is not unreasonable, but I am willing to listen to cogent arguments on behalf of a joint treatment. (I note that the original notice of merger on the Mithra page reads "Merged Indic and Iranian material to make for meatier comparisons" – although those comparisons seem not to have emerged.) An argument based on the adventitious fact that Modern Persian no longer has the sound of [θ] is not very persuasive, however.RandomCritic 22:22, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * You may well branch out separate Vedic and Zoroastrian sub-articles, but we need to keep a main article for the purpose of comparison and discussion of the history of the Indo-Iranian deity. So yes, information about the Vedic Mitra is indispensable to understanding the role of Iranian Miθra and vice versa, at least from the standpoit of comparative religious studies. Do a Mitra (Vedic) and a Mithra, sub-articles like Woden and Odin wrt Wodanaz, but keep a comparative discussion here. dab (ᛏ) 12:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Summary of Possibilities
I'm going to try to summarize suggestions as they are at the moment.

 * Amir85 suggests merging Mithra wholly into Mitra, which would entail making Mithra a redirect to Mitra and getting rid of the dab page. I don't know what he suggests about Mithras.

 * I suggested a dab page pointing in three directions, to Mitra, Mithra and Mithras, each of which would handle a different culture (Vedic India, Iran, Roman Empire) with the etymological and comparative material (what there is of it) duplicated at Mitra and Mithra.

 * Fullstop suggests Mitra as a main page, with summaries and pointers to Varuna for Vedic India (perhaps renamed Mitra-Varuna or something similar), Mithra for Iran, and Mithras.

 * Dbachmann suggests Mitra for comparative information, pointing also to Mitra (Vedic) (which I suppose would or could be the same as Fullstop's Mitra-Varuna, and to Mithra (and to Mithras?).

I agree that simplifying the content to be primarily comparative would be ideal, as it would satisfy both the "lumping" and "splitting" impulses. But I'm just not sure what would go into the comparison. There are basically two things: the etymology; and the fact that both have been considered "solar deities", a characterization that is so vague as to mean almost nothing; Hinduism in particular is full of solar devas other than Mitra (particularly Sūrya) and the principal solar Yazata in the Zoroastrian texts is apparently Hvarəxšaēta. My impression is that Mitra and Miθra are not so much the Sun itself as they are comparable to the Sun -- something that could be said of other devas, yazatas, and the gods of a great many other religion. So the solar angle doesn't tell us a whole lot.

What's left? That they are both associated with contracts? If this is in fact the case, it would be nice to have some quotations from the Vedas and the Yashts documenting this. I'm not sure what else there is, particularly as neither personage has an extensive mythical cycle or a highly distinctive personality that can be compared. RandomCritic 20:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

1. Response to Possibilities

 * The vedic portion of the Mitra article a) is not well developed and b) doesn't say anything that isn't already in Mitra-Varuna. Note also that Mitra-Varuna is a redirect to Varuna. In other words, even though (as Amir85 points out) Vedic Mitra is more important than Mithra, there so little information on Vedic Mitra, that a Vedic-only Mitra article might as well be a redirect Mitra-Varuna (and thence to Varuna).
 * As RandomCritic points out, there was little, if any, comparison between the divinities in the old Mitra article. That all three divinities (Mitra[-Varuna]/Mithra/Mithras) may have originated from the same *mitra is all very well, but beyond that they really are different divinities. Incidentally, there are also several other divinities that also (at least linguistically) derive from *mitra, including the Armenian Mher, Manichean Mytr/Maitreya and Buddhist Maitreya. These are just as unsuitable for lumping together with *mitra as Mitra/Mithra/Mithras are.
 * In view of these two points, Dbachmann's suggestion for leaving Mitra as the page for comparison is a good compromise. Since all of them will be listed, and text for each will be short (because there is not very much in the way of similarities between them), the article will in effect also be a disambiguation page. The dablink at the top of each of the pages would thus read: This article is on the {Vedic Mitra[-Varuna] | [Yazata] Mithra | Roman deity Mithras | ... }. For other divinities cognate with the proto-Indo-Iranian *mitra, see mitra.
 * -- Fullstop 07:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Misc. edits
I was wondering if anyone here could elaborate on the connections between Mitra and the Buddhist deity Amitabha? The article does not get into this, and I know little about it.Iluvchineselit 23:24, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

-

I've already posted something about this in the "mithras" article. I lack the courage to edit the page myself, but i've noticed something important that may need to be changed.

Traditionally, scholars believed that mitra = mithra = mithras. however, recent research seems to indicate that in all likelihood, mithras, the roman deity had little or nothing to do w/ mitra or mithras. in other words the line:

"His worship later spread to Persia (under the name Mithra) and then to the              Roman Empire, where he was called Mithras."

is most likely incorrect. most likely the roman deity mithras had nothing to do with the persian god mithra.

The article on Mithrainism already reflects this information. thank you for your time.

- Mitra was worshipped primarily in pre-Vedic times and his importance slowly faded with the arrival of the Aryans in India. I have removed this, as it does not square with the texts. I don't know what to make of the notice above, dis-linking Mithra from Mithras. Wetman 16:57, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Mithraeum is usually applied to cult-places of the Roman cave type. Is that what we're talking about at Kangvar (sp?) ? Or is it a regular Zoroastrian fire temple that happens to be dedicated to Mithra et sa mere? If the latter, the terminology is misleading. Also, what's the date on this temple? It matters a lot whether we're talking Achaemenid vs. Parthian etc. I could not find the specified essay by following the link. And the "ascension of Mithra"; is that based on Ulansey's astronomical theory? That assertion needs to be NPOV'ed. Bacchiad 23:48, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Mitra was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother venerated as a fertility goddess among the old Iranian deities before the hierarchical reformation of Zoroaster's henotheism. Mithra's ascension to heaven was said to have occurred in 208 B.C., 64 years after his birth. The largest Mithraeum was built in western Persia at Kangavar, and dedicated to "Anahita, the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithras". Other Mithraic temples mentioned by David Fingrut, 1993 (link): at Khuzestan; in central Iran near present-day Mahallat, (a few columns still standing at the temple of Khorheh); at excavated Nisa, later renamed Mithradatkirt (Mithraic mausoleums and shrines); at Hatra in upper Mesopotamia (Mithraic sanctuaries and mausoleums); at Dura Europas (Mithraeums  with figures of Mithras on horseback, akin to Sabazios).

 * Parthian coins and royal inscriptions bear a double date, which records Mithra's birth and his Ascension into heaven 64 years later at a date equivalent to 208 BCE. The Parthian princes of Armenia were all priests of Mithra, and an entire district of this land was dedicated to the Virgin Mother Anahita. Many Mithraeums, or Mithraic temples, were built in Armenia, which remained both one of the last strongholds of Mithraism and the first officially Christian kingdom.

These paragraphs are nearly word-for-word copies of text at http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/Topics/Religion/Mithraism/David_Fingrut**.html

Since that essay is dated 1993, it's still copyrighted.

It's the words, not the facts that are copyright. I meant to be recasting it, and I credited it as source. Now, shall I rewrite it or will you?
 * Be my guest. Bacchiad 00:34, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Meanwhile, A. D. H. Bivar, emeritus of Iranian Studies, "The Personalities of Mithra in Archaeology and Literature" in Biennial Yarshater Lecture Series, No. 1, looks at Mitra/Mithras from the Iranian side, looking for the source of Mithraism in a parallel secret organization in Iran, and asks whether Plato doesn't hunt that he was an initiate... We just don't have a cultural running-start with Mithra! Wetman 00:31, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I continue to be concerned that the paraphrased sections from the Fingrut article are paraphrased too closely. You know the drill from expos. But I have left most of them in for now.

One coprytight-unrealted problem with incorporating material from that article into Wikipedia in a very close way is that Fingrut has a strongly polemical agenda: to show that Christianity is derived from Mithraism. It is appropriate here to note parallels where they exist, but we have to avoid hitting people over the head with them. I excised a couple of sentences or offhand remarks that I thought were over the top. But if you want to restore them, I won't get into an edit war, and will hold back.

I also yoinked these:

 * Mithra's ascension to heaven was said to have occurred in 208 BCE, 64 years after his birth. Parthian coins and royal inscriptions bear a double date, which records Mithra's birth and his Ascension into heaven 64 years later at a date equivalent to 208 BCE.

Given that Mit(h)ra is first attested in 1400 BC, I can't buy a 3rd century birthdate for him. The middle of the 3rd century marks the beginning of the Parthia kingdom, and I think that's a more plausible explanation for the start date of the royal calendar. But if we can get a good literary or epigraphic source for the ascension into heaven at said date, it should go back in.

 * at Dura Europas (Mithraeums with figures of Mithras on horseback, akin to Sabazios).

This was a Roman site; belongs in Mithras or Mithraism. I don't like the split, but we have to live with it for now.

I would also like to add that Mithras birthdate was not 25th of December, there was a week long festival that started around the 20th or 21st December and lasted 1 week, since christians could not stop people celebrating this date, 25th of december was decided to be the Birth Of Christ. I do not know why you refer it to Vedic, as Iranic tribes did not migrate or invade India till 1500BC, there for calling it Vedic is incorrect. Later on the War between the Indic and Iranic tribes seperated the Religions and Mithra being an Ahura or Ashura or Asura is evil in Vedic and Budhism and Deva or Devas are the good gods with Iranic religions having Devas as bad gods. Please expand and update this article, till then I vote it be rewritten! --Aryan 01:23, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Gender
Are we sure mitra is male?Geni 21:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * yes. dab (ᛏ) 09:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup. Bacchiad 06:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

"Persian" confusion
Of course Zoroastrianism was the religion of the Persian Empire, but the Avesta itself is not in Persian, but in Avestan, an Iranian language closer to Sogdian or Bactrian than to Persian. The intro discusses the difference of Iranian Mithra vs. Vedic Mitra. Specifically Persian aspects are a subset of Iranian Mithra, and have their own section. dab (ᛏ) 10:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

 * also, I realize that "Asura" changed its meaning in Hinduism, but that can hardly be a reason to suppress mention of the fact that Mitra together with Varuna is the chief Asura of Rigvedic religion, as the author of the now-removed html comments seems to have intended. dab (ᛏ) 11:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I found that the mistaken html comments were added in April by . It took me about 10 minutes to find the edit: Please use the talkpage for this sort of message, it's why we have talk pages. The confusion seems to arise with some people taking "Iranian" to refer somehow to the modern state of Iran, which is obviously not intended in this context. "Iranian" as in Iranian peoples is a (large) superset of "Persian", including Sogdians, Scythians and Yaghnobi as well as Persians, Medes, Parthians and Kurds. dab (ᛏ) 11:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry about that.
 * As you noted, the comment re Persia vs Iran was a (albeit weak) attempt to discourage subsequent replacement of all instances of the word Persia with Iran.
 * With respect to the Avesta being in Avestan, well um, the youngest texts of the Avesta are in middle Persian. Anyhow, just because texts are in Avestan doesn't mean they can't be Persian. The 'Mihr Yasht', i.e. the hymns to Mithra, is in Younger Avestan, and dates to the Achaemenid era, which is of course the first Persian empire.
 * With respect to your assertion that Persian aspects of Mithra are a subset of Iranian Mithra: What happened to Mithra between the proto-indo-iranian Mitra and the Zoroastrian Mithra is open to speculation. It can't be ruled out that Zoroastrian Mithra isn't a development from the Vedic Mitra (Bactria is just as close to Vedic cultural influences as to Iranian ones, and Ahura Mazda is conceptually close to Varuna. Kuiper says Ahura Mazda is Varuna, and Boyce halfway agrees).
 * With respect to the Asura/Ahura issue: IMO, its problematic to use proto-Indo-Iranian terms when the words, as they are used today, have a different meaning (in both Zoroastrianism and Hinduism). Moreover, the change was in conjunction with a split of one paragraph that covered both the Vedic and Zoroastrian Mithra.
 * Incidentally, have you noticed the rebirth of a Mithra article?

-- Fullstop 14:56, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Mitra in current Slovakia folklore

 * In Vlachs folklore in Slovakia there is a holliday "Na Mitra", On the Mitra day. It was live holliday about 100 years ago, now it is known mainly from folklore festivals showing old Vlachs pastoralist culture. During this the chief shepherd (called "bača" [pron. like "butchah"] (or Mitra?)) with high cap and long hard coat from sheep fur together with his fellow shepherds ("valach" "valasi") come from the hill pastures down to the village and they start to hold a small festivity. This would happen in october.--Marcel Kosko 12:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Deity box

 * On my browser, at least, this infobox summarizing the qualities of a Hindu deity does not play well with other parts of the page, creating a large empty white space and pushing everything else out of the way. I've moved it down to the bottom pending resolution of this problem. RandomCritic 10:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Edit talk page
I've removed all of the Wikiproject flags. This is basically a disambiguation page; it doesn't need to be on the radar of all these projects (none of which is actually going to do anything with it anyway). RandomCritic 17:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Herodotus and Mit(h)ra
First, here are three of the many English Language translations of Herodotus I.131: These are the customs, so far as I know, which the Persians practise: Images and temples and altars they do not account it lawful to erect, nay they even charge with folly those who do these things; and this, as it seems to me, because they do not account the gods to be in the likeness of men, as do the Hellenes. But it is their wont to perform sacrifices to Zeus going up to the most lofty of the mountains, and the whole circle of the heavens they call Zeus: and they sacrifice to the Sun and the Moon and the Earth, to Fire and to Water and to the Winds: these are the only gods to whom they have sacrificed ever from the first; but they have learnt also to sacrifice to Aphrodite Urania, having learnt it both from the Assyrians and the Arabians; and the Assyrians call Aphrodite Mylitta, the Arabians Alitta, and the Persians Mitra. [1]As to the customs of the Persians, I know them to be these. It is not their custom to make and set up statues and temples and altars, but those who do such things they think foolish, because, I suppose, they have never believed the gods to be like men, as the Greeks do; [2] but they call the whole circuit of heaven Zeus, and to him they sacrifice on the highest peaks of the mountains; they sacrifice also to the sun and moon and earth and fire and water and winds. [3] From the beginning, these are the only gods to whom they have ever sacrificed; they learned later to sacrifice to the “heavenly”1 Aphrodite from the Assyrians and Arabians. She is called by the Assyrians Mylitta, by the Arabians Alilat, by the Persians Mitra. The customs which I know the Persians to observe are the following: they have no images of the gods, no temples nor altars, and consider the use of them a sign of folly. This comes, I think, from their not believing the gods to have the same nature with men, as the Greeks imagine. Their wont, however, is to ascend the summits of the loftiest mountains, and there to offer sacrifice to Zeus, which is the name they give to the whole circuit of the firmament. They likewise offer to the sun and moon, to the earth, to fire, to water, and to the winds. These are the only gods whose worship has come down to them from ancient times. At a later period they began the worship of Urania, which they borrowed from the Arabians and Assyrians. Mylitta is the name by which the Assyrians know this goddess, whom the Arabians call Alitta, and the Persians Mitra.
 * 1) Macaulay (1904):
 * 1) Godley (1912):
 * 1) Stearns (1912):

Second, what is it that Herodotus is telling us here:
 * 1) In the mid-5th century (when Herodotus wrote), there were no iconic temples yet and the Persis (the ethnic group, i.e. people from Persia proper, at the time not necessarily yet Zoroastrians) were quite iconoclastic in their beliefs.
 * 2) Herodotus, like all Greek historians, used Greek names whenever possible, or rather when the parallels allowed easy identification as a Greek entity. Not only is this the case for "Aphrodite Urania"/"Heavenly Aphrodite"/"Urania", it is also so for "Zeus" (which the Greeks consistently used as the name for Ahura Mazda).
 * 3) The Persis (the ethnic group, i.e. people from Persia proper) had - with only one exception - the same gods as everyone else in the Iranian-language speaking world, and had had these gods since time immemorial.

 * Herodotus actually uses the name Aphrodite:

ἐπιμεμαθήκασι δὲ καὶ τῇ Οὐρανίῃ θύειν, παρά τε Ἀσσυρίων μαθόντες καὶ Ἀραβίων. καλέουσι δὲ Ἀσσύριοι τὴν Ἀφροδίτην Μύλιττα, Ἀράβιοι δὲ Ἀλιλάτ, Πέρσαι δὲ Μίτραν

 * He is not referring to a nameless "fertility goddess". That is the point.  RandomCritic 14:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

That one exception - an "import" - was a godess that they "learnt to sacrifice to from the Assyrians and the Arabians". Per the translations, Herodotus uses the following names:
 * a Greek female deity: Each translation provides us a different name: a) Aphrodite Urania, b) "heavenly Aphrodite", c) Urania.

 * The translations may vary, but Herodotus' original doesn't. He first refers to Aphrodite by an epithet "Ourania" (which means "of or related to the heavens", hence "heavenly"), then by her proper name.  It's really not significant. RandomCritic 14:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * an "Assyrian" female deity: Mylitta. With the Greek Aphrodite prefix in one translation, without in two.
 * You've misread the text; it says that the Assyrians call Aphrodite Mylitta, i.e., Mylitta is the name which the Assyrians use for the goddess that Herodotus calls Aphrodite.

 * an "Arabian" female deity: Alilat in one translation, Alitta in the other two.
 * Alitta is erroneous, perhaps reflecting some scribal. Alilat is clearly Arabic (and so hardly merits the scare quotes): الالاهة  . The name of this goddess is attested epigraphically and in the Qur'an as اللات Allat. RandomCritic 15:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

What do these four have in common? Nothing at all. "Persian Mitra" is obviously being confused with another goddess.
 * a "Persian" male (!) deity: Mitra

However, remove "Persian Mitra" from the equation and one gets a goddess of the planet Venus and (what a Greek would associate with the planet) sexuality. An Iranian godess associated with Venus AND associated with Mithra. Now which divinity could that possibly be?

Well, the other two (Mylitta and Alilat) are analogues of Semitic Ishtar-Inanna, and it stands to reason that Herodotus was referring to a Persian import of one of these. Boyce suggests a hypothetical *Anahiti (as she reconstructs it from the Greek Anaitis) and in Herodotus' time apparently not yet conflated with Indo-Iranian Anahita (otherwise Herodotus wouldn't have classified the goddess as an import).

What Herodotus meant by "Mitra" is old, Old, OLD hat. But don't take my word for it. Aredvi Sura Anahita has the backstory, which is quite well cited (if I may say so). Or alternatively pick up one of these:
 * Cumont, Franz (1926), "Anahita" in Hastings, James, ed., Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Vol. I, Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark.
 * Lommel, Herman (1927), Die Yašts des Awesta, Göttingen-Leipzig: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht/JC Hinrichs
 * Nyberg, Henrik Samuel (1938), Die Religionen des alten Iran, Leipzig: JC Hinrichs
 * Widengren, Geo (1965), Die Religionen Irans (Die Religion der Menschheit, Vol. 14), Stuttgart: Kohlhammer
 * Boyce, Mary (1982), A History of Zoroastrianism, Vol. II, Leiden/Köln: Brill
 * Boyce, Mary (1983), "Anāhīd" in Encyclopaedia Iranica, Cosa Mesa: Mazda Pub, pp. 1003-1009
 * -- Fullstop 11:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not saying any of that is implausible; I'm just saying, pick a relevant quote from one (or all) of the above and put the reference in the article. RandomCritic 14:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

What Herodotus is saying is that there was a Persian goddess who had an attribute that was also evident in Aphrodite, Mylitta and Alilat. Hence, (and because this attribute is the association with the planet Venus), it would be more appropriate to say "Mithra as the name of a goddess of the planet Venus" than "as the Persian name of [Aphrodite|Mylitta|Alilat]".
 * Ok, I misunderstood your edit then. Anyhow, determining who Herodotus is speaking of is only tangentially relevant. Highly relevant however is that Herodotus is not speaking of Mitra or Aphrodite at all, irrespective of whether he explicitely uses the name or not.
 * That he is not speaking of Mitra at all is obvious. But is "In Herodotus,..." then relevant at all? In an article on Vahram, is it necessary to say Strabo refers to Vahram as Diana, or in an article on Aphrodite to say Herodotus (or his scribes) made a mistake?
 * Then, "as the Persian name for Aphrodite" (which is what your edit says) is not only contextually misleading, it is the opposite that is true: i.e. Herodotus is using "heavenly Aphrodite" as a Greek "translation" for Mylitta/Alilat/[etc]. (just as he - in the same text - uses Zeus as a "translation" for Ahura Mazda)
 * Do you see what I mean?
 * -- Fullstop 10:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Mithras and Mithra
Somebody wrote:

"which cannot descend from OP because a) the genuine OP form is something else and b) OP was already MP by the time the Mysteries came around and c) Mihr/Myhr is also already attested to have been current in Asia Minor by then and d) they didn't get it from Babylonia (i.e. through Seleucid influence) either because already in the 4th century BCE the Babylonian form is 'Mi-iš-ša' "

 * What's this got to do with anything? The name "Mithras" in Greek long predates the existence of Mithraism, and is in any case probably not borrowed from Persian at all, Old or Middle, but from some variant of Iranian language spoken in Asia Minor -- or perhaps even from an older form of Armenian.  We already see the element Mithra- in the name Mithradates, recorded (in Greek) as far back as the 3rd century BCE.  Greek Mithra- is only an approximation of Iranian Mithra- anyway, as Greek th (θ) didn't represent the same sound as Iranian th.

RandomCritic 00:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, its off topic... having to do with (not specifically, but symptomatic for Mit(h)ra*-related articles) the fact "Iranic" has never worked, it always got changed to "[Old] Persian". Such is the 'pedia. Whacky "PersianPride" cruft all over the place, like this and this and this. The reaction also has its extremes, which we see as "Aryan" at Mithra. And sometimes its just misinformed, like this or utter cluelessness like this.
 * Incidentally, Mithridates' name - if we are referring to the same figure - is not native Greek. "Phil-hellenes" though the Arsacids were, it is a "translation" into Greek. Even when all epigraphic/documentary evidence is exclusively in Greek (as it is in Asia Minor), it is probably unsafe to assume that Greek was the native language of the Iranian expatriates there. They "translated" proper names as well they could, and the fact that they did not calque them indicates that they understood that proper names remained proper names.
 * But other than that, you're right on. "Recorded in Greek" would include Herodotus (and Xanthus?), ergo mid-5th century BCE and before any Old Persian attestation of the name. And neither historiographer ever came anywhere close to Parsa (or even anywhere else beyond the Pontus), and in turn no historiographer who was in South-western Iran alludes to Mithra. Asia Minor (or the Levant or Armenia) is probably right.
 * -- Fullstop 17:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I didn't mean to imply that "Mithradates" was a Greek name, just that some early attestations of the name are written in Greek letters in the middle of Greek-language texts. Sorry for the lack of clarity. RandomCritic 20:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

More meanings of Mitra and Confusion of Gender
I would like to make the gender orientation of the name Mitra a bit more clear. As a first name, Mitra is for females but can be a last name for both males and females.

One of the many meanings of Mitra is that it was a Hindu god of friendship and alliance. This god was a punisher of falsehood and brought rain upon the earth. Mitra was also a supporter of heaven and earth. There is already an explanation that Mitra was a god of sun but I also wanted to go into little more detail about his role as a Hindu god and what it means to be a god of the sun. The last thing I wanted to add was about how Mitra and Varuna were two gods that were seen as twins in the beginning and how they were seen as one god at many times. Together, they balanced one another's powers and kept the universe in balance. Since Mitra has to do with friendship, his friendship with Varuna plays a big role in explaining Mitra. This all goes under the Hindu belief of what kind of a god Mitra was.

Mitra Fazel (talk) 21:18, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Asterisk
Why does the name begin with an asterisk in the opening? It isn't explained in the text and it seems to disappear and re-appear throughout the article.168.158.220.3 (talk) 20:38, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ Same question. What's the convention and can we explain it in the body text? Scoundr3l (talk) 00:13, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Untitled
Il mitra è un arma israeliana da combattimento che spara numerosi colpi al secondo chiamata Uzo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.44.99.135 (talk) 02:02, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
In Slavic there is also "omot" or "motat" (to bind) in Slovene language (and dialects); motnya is also a "disorder", "to be wrong"(your action is "binded", in a wound cord, a Gordian knot). (transmutation in Persian and Slavic went from Mit to Mot). It is INTERESTING that "etymology" gives all possible (even non linguistically related words) variants of so called term Mitra, including nonsense about German "walls", but never about Slavic & Persian (which was in fact always related to each other, geographically & linguistically, mythologically) explanation. All i can say is: occult nonsense!

Mitra indeed shares etymology with a "friend", but the correct linguistic roots are: Mit - मिथ् which means "couple" (this is where the 'friend' comes from; "to meet" somebody u know) and Ra र, which is "ray" (radiant, solar, light,...). From this comes "a Friend" मित्र. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.210.228.86 (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, IP, yours is highly non-etymological.

Think of e.g. Russian/BaltoSlavic {mir}+ {*tra} instead:

From Proto-Balto-Slavic *meiˀros, from Proto-Indo-European *mei(H)-ro-. Baltic cognates include Old Lithuanian mieras (“peace”), Latvian miers (“peace”). Other Indo-European cognates include Latin mītis (“mild, calm, peaceful”). Zezen (talk) 08:03, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mitra


text:
University of Limerick

University of Limerick (UL) (Ollscoil Luimnigh) is a public research university institution in Limerick, Ireland. Founded in 1972 as the National Institute for Higher Education, Limerick, it became a university in September 1989 in accordance with the University of Limerick Act 1989. It was the first university established since Irish independence in 1922, followed by the establishment of Dublin City University.

UL's campus lies along both sides of the River Shannon, on a 137.5 ha site with 46 ha on the north bank and 91.5 ha on the south bank at Plassey, County Limerick, 5 km from the city centre. It has over 11,000 full-time undergraduate students, including over 2,400 international students, and 1,500 part-time students. There are over 800 research postgraduates and 1,300 postgraduate students receiving instruction at the university. Its co-operative education ("co-op") programme offers students an up to eight-month work placement as part of their degree; it was Ireland's first such programme.

Following founding president Edward M. Walsh, Roger GH Downer, John O'Connor, Don Barry and Des Fitzgerald were presidents of UL from 1998 to August 2020. The current president is Professor Kerstin Mey.

University campaign
According to founding president Edward M. Walsh, the mayor of Limerick applied for a college of the planned Queen's University of Ireland to be established in the city. However, in 1850, Queen's College, Belfast, Cork and Galway were established instead. In 1908 there was an attempt to link the National University of Ireland and Mungret College, about five kilometres from Limerick. Mungret offered bachelor's- and master's-level courses in the faculty of arts, with degrees conferred by the Royal University of Ireland, from 1888 to 1908. The university was dissolved in 1909 and replaced by the National University of Ireland, marking the end of tertiary education at Mungret. Degrees were awarded to students at Mungret College by the NUI from 1909 to 1912 to accommodate students who had matriculated at the Royal University.

The campaign for a university in Limerick began in earnest by the late 1950s. The Limerick University Project Committee was founded in September 1959 by the mayor of Limerick in 1957, Ted Russell. Another supporter, Dermot Kinlen, was a High Court judge and the first state inspector general of prisons and places of detention. Russell and Kinlen received honorary degrees from the university in 2002.

National Institute for Higher Education, Limerick
The introduction in 1968 of Free Education in Ireland by Limerick Education Minister Donogh O'Malley - O'Malley actually bought the current 340 acre UL Plassey site for the State from the Bugler family in 1967 - and his plans for nine Institutes of Higher Education followed by successful economic-development policies during the 1960s led to an influx of foreign investment into Ireland and demand for expertise not met by the existing universities. Ireland established the National Institute for Higher Education (NIHE) at Limerick, modelled on the technological universities of continental Europe, and perhaps the polytechnic approach being developed in the UK. Edward Walsh took office as chairman of the planning board and director of the institute on 1 January 1970. This more twentieth-century and continental approach is illustrated by its use of funding from the World Bank, European Investment Bank and philanthropists. Construction on phase one, for example, used financing from the World Bank. Faculty and staff were recruited internationally, and they — in addition to extensive teaching and research facilities — attracted foreign investment led by Analog Devices (which manufactured Ireland's first silicon chips).

The first students were enrolled in 1972, when the institute was opened by Taoiseach Jack Lynch. The European Investment Bank financed the second phase of development. Billionaire philanthropist Chuck Feeney was a major donor to the university. Shannon Development was also an early supporter of the project, supporting the NIHE proposal to establish the National Technological Park as an integrated campus.

A change of government resulted in NIHE Limerick applying for recognition as a recognised college of the National University of Ireland, which awarded degrees to its graduates in 1977. After strong opposition by students and others, NIHE Limerick withdrew from the NUI and was established as an independent institution. From 1978 to 1988, the National Council for Educational Awards (NCEA) was the degree-awarding authority for NIHE Limerick.

University status
In 1989, NIHE Limerick was established by legislation as the University of Limerick and NIHE Dublin was established as Dublin City University, each with the power to award its own degrees. These became the first institutes since Irish independence to be given the title "university".

Expansion occurred in 1991, after the incorporation of Thomond College of Education, Limerick. Thomond, sharing a common campus, was founded in 1973 as the National College of Physical Education and became the department of educational and professional studies, focusing on secondary education. Since 1991, degrees from Mary Immaculate College have also been awarded by UL. MIC degrees are offered in primary education and arts programmes, and degrees awarded at St. Patrick's College, Thurles have been conferred by UL since 2012. University history under the leadership of founding president Edward M Walsh is profiled in Walsh's 2011 memoir, Upstart: Friends, Foes and Founding a University.

Elements of the US university system were adopted, including cooperative education, grade point average marking and the trimester system. During the 1970s, limited public financing led Walsh and his team to seek World Bank and European Investment Bank funding. Sophisticated private-sector fundraising programmes were later developed, based on US university models and guided by an international leadership board under founding chair Chuck Feeney and Lewis Glucksman. The campus developed primarily as a result of such fundraising activity.

The university has been an active participant in the European Union's Erasmus Programme since 1988 and has 207 partner institutions in 24 European countries. In addition, UL students may study at partner universities in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, China and Singapore.

UL allied with NUI Galway in 2010, sharing resources.

Presidents

 * Edward M. Walsh, founding president (1972–1998)
 * Roger Downer (1998–2006)
 * John O'Connor (2006–2007)
 * Don Barry (2007–2017)
 * Desmond Fitzgerald (2017–2020)
 * Kerstin Mey (interim from 2020, confirmed 2021-date)

Governance
In accordance with legislation, the university is directed by a policy-making Governing Authority, whose functions are outlined in the National Institute for Higher Education, Limerick, Act, 1980, amended in the University of Limerick Act, 1989, which raised the institution's status to that of a university and provided for related matters. There are several other important acts concerning the college include the Universities Act, 1997, which allows for the creation of University Statutes.

The Governing Authority's 29 members are chosen by a wide range of groups and authorities and include members elected by staff (in various classes) and students (ex-officio based on elections of Students Union officers).

The university is headed, titularly, by the Chancellor. As of 2023, the Chancellor of the University of Limerick is Brigid Laffan. Previous chancellors included Miriam Hederman O'Brien, Seán Donlon and Mary Harney.

Faculty

The university has four faculties: Two colleges are linked to the university: Mary Immaculate College and MIC, St. Patrick's Campus, Thurles.
 * Kemmy Business School (Scoil Ghnó Kemmy)
 * Faculty of Education and Health Sciences (including the Graduate Medical School)
 * Faculty of Science and Engineering
 * Faculty of Arts, Humanities and Social Sciences

Kemmy Business School has Triple Crown accreditation (AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA). It has four academic departments, which are Accounting & Finance, Economics, Management & Marketing, and Personnel & Employment Relations. The school's courses include accounting, finance, economics, marketing, and risk management among other courses. The Kemmy Business School is the first European university to have a custom-designed campus trading floor, which uses the trading software Bloomberg Professional. Through the Kemmy school, students have the option of completing the Bloomberg certification. Named after the former mayor of Limerick, Jim Kemmy, the business school has both undergraduate and postgraduate courses on offer.

Students
UL has a students' union, branded as UL Student Life (ULSL). It is presided over by four sabbatical officers: a president, an academic officer, a welfare officer and a communities officer. Policy decisions are made by the sabbatical officers and a council of class representatives. The union is the representative body for the 18,000 undergraduate UL students. It operates from their office in the main courtyard, which has space for students to relax. ULSU Ents, part of the students' union, organises entertainment for university students throughout the year, with many events taking place during Freshers Week and Charity Week.

The university also has a postgraduate students' union with a full-time, sabbatical postgraduate president. It is one of two Irish universities with such a position.

Clubs and societies
UL has over 70 student-run clubs and societies. Clubs are supported by the students' union, the sports department and the arts office. In March 2014, the clubs and societies refused to recognise the Pro-Life Society—the first society not recognised by the student council. Since then, every new club or society must be voted on by the council and undergo a trial period (usually 14 weeks).

President's Volunteer Award
The President's Volunteer Award (PVA), administered by the university's community-liaison office, was established to harness, acknowledge and support the contributions which students at the University of Limerick make to their communities. It draws on a strong tradition of student volunteerism on and off-campus. The PVA's primary goals are:
 * To sustain and foster a culture of volunteerism, active citizenship and civic engagement among the student population
 * To develop collaborative projects and further existing initiatives between UL and the community
 * To formally acknowledge and support the contributions which UL student volunteers make to the community
 * To promote the development of civic and leadership skills in students.

Rankings
The university is ranked fourth in attracting students who attain over 500 points on the Leaving Certificate. It is the only college in Ireland to receive a maximum five stars for its sports facilities.

UL is ranked 426th worldwide in the 2024 QS World University Rankings and 401-500 in the 2024 Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

It was the 2015 University of the Year in the Sunday Times' Good University Guide because of the university's record in graduate employability, improved academic performance, the €52-million Bernal Project and a strong record in research commercialisation. UL is Ireland's only university to receive five stars for graduate employability and teaching in the 2011–12 QS reports. The school also received five stars for infrastructure, internationalisation, innovation and engagement.

Science and engineering
Materials and Surface Science Institute (MSSI): The MSSI, established in 1998, generates fundamental research on topics of industrial significance in the fields of surface science and materials. The institute's strengths and interests are in four areas: nanomaterials; biomaterials; composite and glass materials, and biocatalysis and clean technology. Irish Software Research Centre (Lero): The university hosts (Lero), the Irish Software Research Centre. Lero was established in November 2005 with support from the Science Foundation Ireland’s CSET (Centre for Science, Engineering and Technology) programme as a collaborative organisation for software-engineering research activities at UL (the lead partner), Dublin City University (DCU), Trinity College Dublin (TCD) and University College Dublin (UCD). In its third funding period (2014–2020), it has grown to encompass all seven Irish universities (UL, DCU, NUI Galway, Maynooth University, TCD, University College Cork and UCD), the Dundalk Institute of Technology, and 29 national and international industrial partners for a volume of €46.4 million. Its scope now encompasses all software-related research. Interaction Design Centre (IDC): The centre, established in 1996, is an interdisciplinary research group in the department of computer science and information systems focused on the design, use and evaluation of information and communications technology ranging from media installations and interfaces to technological field studies. Localisation Research Centre: The LRC was established in 1995 as the Localisation Resources Centre at University College Dublin (UCD) and moved to UL in 1999, where it became the LRC—the information, research and educational centre for the localisation industry in Ireland, offering the world's first MSc degree in multilingual computing and localisation. The LRC leads localisation research in the Centre for Next Generation Localisation (CNGL), established with support from Science Foundation Ireland. In 2009 the LRC spun off the Rosetta Foundation, promoting social localisation and supporting the Action for Global Information Sharing network. In 2011, it signed a memorandum of understanding with the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA). Enterprise Research Centre: The Enterprise Research Centre (ERC) is committed to researching the challenges facing current and next-generation enterprises. Its staff have research and practical experience in modelling, scheduling and management of enterprise optimisation, design and implementation of integrated systems, product innovation, project management and quality-, reliability- and productivity-improvement tools. Stokes Institute: The Stokes Institute, founded by Cambridge graduate Mark Davies to work on thermofluid problems, is a mechanical-engineering research group working in fluid mechanics, reliability physics, microfluidic cancer diagnostics and energy management. One focus is the engineering of ICT devices. Stokes Bio, an offshoot of the institute, was sold to Life Technologies in 2010.

The arts
UL is home to the Irish World Academy of Music and Dance, a centre for innovation and research in music and dance performance and scholarship, and the Irish Chamber Orchestra (Ireland's leading international chamber orchestra, funded by An Chomhairle Ealaíon (the Irish Arts Council). All three organisations commission and perform new Irish music and dance.

The University Concert Hall (UCH) is UL's principal venue for the performing arts. The 1,000-seat hall was Ireland's first purpose-built concert hall.

The Bourn Vincent Gallery is UL's principal venue for temporary exhibitions, with an ancillary programme of seminars, lectures and performances. UL's art collection includes outdoor sculpture by international artists, including Michael Warren, Peter Logan, Alexandra Wejchert, James McKenna, Tom Fitzgerald, Antony Gormley and (most recently) Sean Scully.

Housing
Many housing districts near UL have a majority-student population, especially in the adjacent Castletroy area. In recent years, several large student apartment complexes have been built a 15-20-minute walk from UL with Section 50 tax incentives. Unlike most similar Irish higher education institutes, much housing is on-campus; there are five on-campus student villages, the newest opening in 2006.

The oldest is Plassey Village, opposite UL's main gate. Accommodating 424 students in terraced houses with four or eight bedrooms and a kitchen-living area, it is primarily occupied by first-year students. Built from 1987 to 1992 in four phases, it has a village hall and many small gardens. During the summers of 2010 and 2011, the village's residences were renovated.

Kilmurry Village, the second-oldest student village, is on the east of the campus. It accommodates 540 students in six- or eight-bedroom terraced houses. It is the closest village to the University Arena, which has an Olympic-standard 50-metre swimming pool. The village was built between 1994 and 1997 in two phases. Minor renovations were made during summer 2011, primarily to the kitchens.

Dromroe Village, completed in 2001, is on the south bank of the Shannon. The first high-rise building houses 457 students in six-, four- or two-bedroom ensuite apartments.

Thomond Village, which opened for the autumn 2004 semester, were the first university buildings on the north bank of the Shannon in County Clare. It has accommodation for 504 students in six-, four-, two- and one-bedroom apartments.

Cappavilla Village, the newest student village, opened in September 2006 on the North Bank near the new Health Sciences Building. An extension of Cappavilla opened in September 2007.

Many off-campus student accommodations vary in distance from the campus. Elm Park, College Court, Briarfield and Oaklawns are popular estates with many student residences. Troy Student Village and Courtyard Hall, privately managed student residences slightly further from the campus, are served by a shuttle bus.

University Arena
The on-campus University Arena is Ireland's largest indoor sports complex. Open since 2002, it consists of the National 50m Swimming Pool. The arena's 3600 m2 Indoor Sports Hall has four wooden courts for a variety of sports, a sprint track, an international 400 m athletics track and a 200 m, three-lane, suspended jogging track. The facility has a cardiovascular and strength-training centre, a weight-training room, team rooms, an aerobics studio and classrooms. The arena is often used by the Munster rugby team.

Its €28 million development was made possible with €7.6 million in government grants, a €6.9 million donation from the University of Limerick Foundation, about €4 million in student contributions and commercial funding. Each year, it accommodates over 500,000 customers and many international athletes and teams.

The arena hosted the 2010 Special Olympics Ireland Games, from 9 to 13 June. In one of the year's largest Irish sporting events, 1,900 Special Olympians from throughout Ireland participated in the games.

All-weather sports complex
UL's €9 million, all-weather sports complex on the North Campus is the largest all-weather sports-field complex in Europe. The multi-purpose, floodlit, artificial turf park has two soccer, one rugby and one GAA pitch. Third-generation all-weather surfaces are similar to natural grass and are designed for full contact. Each full-size pitch can be sub-divided to create smaller playing areas for various sports. The largest artificial-grass development in Ireland to date, it is designed to World Rugby, GAA and FIFA specifications.

The synthetic surface reduces the risk of injury caused by hard or uneven surfaces. The Sports Pavilion Building has changing rooms, squad and coaching rooms and bar, restaurant and conference facilities. The complex is funded from a number of sources, including operating income and campus-based commercial activities.

The playing pitches opened in July 2011, and the Sports Pavilion was expected to open in November 2011. The facility is available to the general public as well as the campus community. In addition to these facilities, conventional playing fields, tennis courts, an artificial-turf pitch, an outdoor athletics track and the University Boathouse are on the Limerick side of the river. The boathouse has Ireland's only indoor rowing tank, which can accommodate up to 8 rowers simultaneously. The tank can simulate a variety of water conditions, providing training opportunities for rowers to reach international standards. The building also includes a launch jetty into the Shannon, a pontoon and a café.

Expansion
The university's Foundation Building, including the University Concert Hall (home to the Irish Chamber Orchestra), the library and several others, were built during the 1990s. The Materials & Surface Science Institute (MSSI) building, Dromroe Student Village, a sports arena and swimming pool were built between 2000 and 2004. In 2005, the Engineering Research Building and Millstream Courtyard buildings opened in a complex near the Foundation Building.

The Kemmy Business School building was constructed next to the Schuman Building, and will be the world's first business school with a live trading floor. Several new buildings have opened on the north bank of the Shannon. The University Bridge, opened in late 2004, provides road and pedestrian access to the planned North Bank campus. Thomond Village was the first North Bank facility (opening in 2004), followed by the Health Sciences Building in 2005. The Living Bridge, a pedestrian bridge, connects the Millstream Courtyard and the Health Sciences Building. Cappavilla Village was completed in mid-2006 on the North Bank; a building for the Irish World Music Centre (formerly in the Foundation Building basement), began construction in May 2007 and was completed in January 2010. An architectural-faculty building is under construction opposite the CSIS building. The university hopes to expand the North Bank campus to the size of the original campus.

Construction timeline

 * 1972 – Physical Education and Sport Sciences Building (originally home to the Thomond College of Education, and renovated in 2012)
 * 1974 – Main Building, phase 1A (Blocks A and B)
 * 1978 – Schrödinger Building
 * 1984 – Main Building, phase 1B (Blocks C—extended in 1996—D and E)
 * 1985–99 – Student Centre (including the Students' Union building)
 * 1992 – Robert Schuman Building
 * 1993 – Foundation Building (with the University Concert Hall)
 * 1996 – Kathleen Lonsdale Building
 * 1997 – Glucksman Library and Information Services Building
 * 1999 – Computer Science Building
 * 2000–01 – University Arena
 * 2002 – MSSI Building
 * 2005 – Engineering Research Building and Millstream Courtyard
 * 2005 – Health Sciences Building
 * 2007 – Living Bridge
 * 2007 – Jim Kemmy Business School
 * 2008 – University of Limerick Boathouse (student-funded, with storage and training space for rowing, kayak, mountain-bike and sub-aqua clubs)
 * 2008 – Irish Chamber Orchestra Building
 * 2009 – Languages Building
 * 2009 – Academy of World Music and Dance
 * 2011 – School of Medicine (graduate)
 * 2011 – Tierney Building
 * 2011 – Lero and IEC Building
 * 2013 – Bernal Building and MSSI extension
 * 2015 – Analog Devices Building
 * 2017 – The Stables Club Renovation
 * 2018 – Glucksman Library Extension
 * 2020 - New Student Centre (under construction) - Construction of the €20 million building began in 2019, however, the contractor for the project, Keating Construction, collapsed into liquidation in February 2021 with debts of €30 million. Costs had reached €30 million by 2022, and construction recommenced in 2023 with Monami Construction as the new contractor.
 * 2021 - Climbing Wall Centre

Limerick 2030
UL has committed to a presence in Limerick city centre as part of the Limerick 2030 plan to help drive renewal of the city centre. All the university's main faculties are presently in Castletroy, about 5 km from the city centre. Former UL president Don Barry outlined his vision of the plan in July 2013: "My dream is that in a few years’ time, there will be hundreds of students of the university participating in the life of the city, learning in the city, recreating in the city and contributing to the revitalisation of the Limerick city centre. Limerick is our city and we are its university."

Notable alumni and staff
• Arts

• Jean Butler, former Riverdance choreographer and artist-in-residence at UL's Irish World Academy

• Patrick Cassidy, composer and 2015 Oscar (long list) nominee

• Colin Dunne, Dance choreographer, best known for his work on Riverdance

• Breandán de Gallaí, Riverdance lead, principal dance instructor and external examiner for the university

• Steph Geremia, Irish-American flute player

• Claire Keville, an Irish concertina and harpsichord player

• William Keohane, Irish writer and poet

• Alice Maher, Irish artist

• Sarah McTernan, Irish singer-songwriter

• Nóirín Ní Riain, Irish singer-songwriter

• Marcus Notley, Irish product designer

• Iarla Ó Lionáird, sean-nós singer and record producer

• Mícheál Ó Súilleabháin, Irish musician and pianist

• Matthew Potter, Irish writer and historian

• Sharon Slater, Irish writer and historian

• Aoife Walsh, Irish model

• Medicine and Science

• Michael Hinchey, Irish computer scientist

• David Parnas, Canadian software-engineering pioneer

• Ronan Tynan, medical doctor and tenor

• Military

• Dermot Earley Snr, former chief of staff of the Irish Defence Forces

• Billy Hedderman, former Irish Army officer

• Politics

• Tamar Beruchashvili, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Georgia

• Pat Cox, Irish politician and former president of the European Parliament

• Jimmy Deenihan, TD, former Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht (2011–2014), Kerry Gaelic football player

• Toiréasa Ferris, former Sinn Féin politician

• Nika Gilauri, former Prime Minister of Georgia (2009–2012)

• Pippa Hackett, Senator on the Agricultural Panel, Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine since 2020

• Annie Hoey, Senator on the Agricultural Panel

• Sindy Joyce, Irish Traveller activist

• Brian Leddin, TD for the Limerick City

• Mary Lou McDonald, president of Sinn Féin and TD for Dublin Central

• Dan Neville, former Fine Gael politician

• Tom Neville, former Fine Gael politician

• Willie O'Dea, TD for Limerick City and former Minister for Defence

• Kieran O'Donnell, TD for Limerick City

• Diarmuid Scully, Former Mayor of Limerick

• Religious

• Bishop Martin Hayes, BSc in Manufacturing Engineering from NIHE Limerick, Bishop of Kilmore.

• Bishop Gerard Nash, studied business in Limerick, appointed Bishop of Ferns in 2021.

• Sports

• Thomas Ahern, Munster rugby player

• Jeremy Bagshaw, Olympian swimmer at the 2024 Olympics

• Thomas Barr, Olympian hurdler at the 2016 Olympics

• Rachael Blackmore, Grand National winning jockey

• Gillian Bourke, Ireland rugby player

• Enya Breen, Ireland rugby player

• Niamh Briggs, former Ireland rugby player

• Brendan Bugler, Clare hurler, Two time All-Star

• David Burke, Galway hurler, 2017 All-Ireland winning captain, Four time All-Star

• Duncan Casey, rugby player for Grenoble, formerly of Munster

• Mike Casey, Limerick hurler

• David Clifford, Kerry Gaelic football player

• Fiona Coghlan, rugby player, 2013 Women's Grand Slam and Six Nations Championship winning captain, 2013 Irish Sportswoman of the Year

• Martin Comerford, Kilkenny hurler, Four time All-Star

• Ailish Considine, Australian rules footballer with the Adelaide Crows

• Eimear Considine, Ireland rugby player and pundit for RTE

• Neil Cronin, Munster rugby player

• Patrick Cronin, Cork hurler

• Seán Cronin, Ireland and Leinster rugby player

• Sinead Diver, marathon runner represented Australia at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics

• Karen Duggan, former soccer player for Ireland, currently involved with punditry for RTE

• Bernard Dunne, former champion boxer

• Seán Finn, Limerick hurler, 2019 All-Star

• Jake Flannery, Ireland, and Munster rugby player

• Conor Fogarty, Kilkenny hurler

• Jason Forde, Tipperary hurler

• Anna Geary, Cork camogie player, television presenter, 2014 All-Ireland winning captain, Six time All-Star

• Gerard Hartmann, physical therapist

• Fiona Hayes, former Ireland rugby player

• Kyle Hayes, Limerick hurler, 2018 Young Hurler of the Year

• Barry Heffernan, Tipperary hurler

• Gearóid Hegarty, Limerick hurler

• Liam Hennessy, exercise physiologist, coach and former athlete

• Séamus Hickey, Limerick hurler

• Joey Holden, Kilkenny hurler

• Tony Kelly, Clare hurler, 2013 Hurler of the Year

• Karl Lacey, Donegal gaelic footballer, 2012 Footballer of the Year, Four time All-Star

• Brian Lohan, Clare hurler, 1995 Hurler of the Year, Four time All-Star, Fitzgibbon Cup winner with UL as player (1994) and manager (2015)

• Paul Maher, Tipperary hurler

• Sharlene Mawdsley, Irish athlete specialising in the 400m

• Larry McCarthy, 40th president of the Gaelic Athletic Association

• John McGrath, Tipperary hurler

• David McInerney, Clare hurler

• Seánie McMahon, Clare hurler, Three time All-Star

• Sinéad Millea, Kilkenny camogie player

• Jake Morris, Tipperary hurler

• Dan Morrissey, Limerick hurler

• Tom Morrissey, Limerick hurler

• Valerie Mulcahy, Cork Gaelic football player, soccer player, Six time All-Star

• Brian Mullins, Dublin Gaelic football player, Two time All-Star

• Conor Murray, Ireland, and Munster rugby player

• Richie Murray, Galway hurler

• Alan Murphy, Kilkenny hurler

• Barry Murphy, former Munster rugby player

• Gráinne Murphy, Irish Olympian

• Barry Nash, Limerick hurler

• Ciara Neville, Irish athlete specialising in the 100m and 4 × 100 m relay

• Liam O'Brien, Steeplechase Olympian at the 1984 Olympics

• Seán O'Brien, Tipperary hurler

• Jack O'Donoghue, Ireland and Munster rugby player

• William O'Donoghue, Limerick hurler

• Fiona O'Driscoll, Cork camogie and football player, 2002 Camogie Player of the Year

• Sean O'Grady, Five time Paralympic athlete

• Ronan O'Mahony, former Munster rugby player.

• Greg O'Shea, Ireland Sevens rugby player, winner of the fifth series of Love Island

• Eddie O'Sullivan, former Ireland rugby coach

• Chloe Pearse, Ireland rugby player

• Ciara Peelo, sailor

• Andrew Quinn, Clare hurler

• Eoin Reddan, Ireland, Wasps, and Leinster rugby player

• Julie-Ann Russell, soccer player for Ireland

• Pat Ryan, Limerick hurler

• Laura Sheehan, Ireland rugby player

• Mike Sherry, Ireland and Munster rugby player

• Ray Silke, Galway Gaelic football player, 1998 All-Ireland winning captain

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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: University of Limerick


text:
Stafford Castle

Stafford Castle is an ancient Grade II listed castle situated two miles west of the town of Stafford in Staffordshire, England. From the time of the Norman Conquest and as recorded in the Domesday Book of 1086 it was the seat of the powerful Anglo-Norman Stafford family (originally de Tosny, later via a female line de Stafford), feudal barons of Stafford, later Barons Stafford (1299) by writ, Earls of Stafford (1351) and Dukes of Buckingham (1444). The 14th-century stone keep was demolished in 1643, during the Civil War, having been held for the Royalists by Lady Isabel Stafford. The castle was remodeled in the early 19th century by the Jerningham family in the Gothic Revival style, on the foundations of the medieval structure, and incorporates much of the original stonework. Today the A518 Stafford-to-Newport Road passes next to it and it is a prominent local landmark visible from the M6 motorway and from the West Coast inter-city mainline.

A Saxon castle at Stafford
The early historian of Staffordshire Robert Plot cited the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (104) for evidence that Æthelflæd, the Saxon warrior-princess and ruler of the Mercians, built a castle at Stafford in the year 913, along with an adjacent burg (meaning a fortified town). However, the exact site of this first castle, probably made of wood, is now unknown.

Saxon
Shortly before the castle was built the Saxon Eadric the Wild had led a failed rebellion which culminated in the defeat of the Saxons at the Battle of Stafford in 1069.

Norman
A wooden castle was built on the site at some time in the 1070s by the Norman magnate Robert de Stafford (c.1039–c.1100) (alias Robert de Tosny/Toeni, etc.) who arrived in England during or shortly after the Norman Conquest of 1066 and was awarded by King William the Conqueror 131 manors in his newly conquered kingdom, predominantly in the county of Staffordshire. Thus he was able to control and extract taxes from the native Anglo-Saxon community and to prepare for the Norman invasion of Wales in 1081. The castle was originally a timber and earth fortification, built on modified glacial deposit. The first castle was built in the usual form of a motte and bailey.

Ralph de Stafford, 1st Earl of Stafford, one of the King's leading commanders in the first phases of the Hundred Years' War, sealed a contract with a master mason in 1347, ordering a stone castle to be built on the castle mound. The rectangular stone keep originally had a tower in each corner, but was later adapted, with a fifth tower being added on in the middle of the north wall (actually facing west).

Early Modern
The stone castle reached its heyday during the time of Humphrey Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham (1402–1460), who was killed at the Battle of Northampton in 1460. His grandson Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham (1455–1483) had become a ward of the Yorkists and was initially a supporter of Richard III, but later rebelled in favour of the aborted invasion of Henry Tudor (Henry VII) in 1483, and paid with his life. His son Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham (1478–1521) escaped and was later restored to his lands by a grateful King Henry VII. In 1511 the 3rd Duke built himself a further grand residence at Thornbury Castle in Gloucestershire, effectively a fortified manor house. His royal blood made him a threat to Henry VIII, who had him executed in 1521, when the family's estates, including Stafford Castle and its deer parks, escheated to the Crown. The king's auditors commented favourably on the deer to be had in the parks and thought the castle might be a suitable stop-off on one of the King's progresses.

Stafford Castle, along with a small parcel of land, was restored to the later Staffords, but they never regained the wealth or status of earlier years. Through lack of maintenance, the keep fell into disrepair and in 1603 Edward Stafford, 3rd Baron Stafford referred in a letter to 'My rotten castle of Stafford.'

During the early phases of the Civil War in 1643 it was held by Lady Isabel Stafford (née Isabel Forster), a staunch Roman Catholic and Royalist, the widow of Edward Stafford, 4th Baron Stafford (1572–1625), who had been buried at the Castle Church, Stafford. The Parliamentarians had captured the town of Stafford on 15 May 1643, following a brief siege, but some of its garrison escaped and held Stafford Castle, in the hope of using it as a bridgehead to recapture the town. Colonel William Brereton rode up to the castle with some of his men and called upon Lady Stafford to surrender, to which she refused. In response "some of the poor outhouses were set on fire to try whether these would work their spirits to any relenting. All in vain, for from the castle they shot some of our men and horses which did much enrage and provoke the rest to an act of fierce revenge. Almost all the dwelling houses and outhouses were burnt to the ground." The siege was raised when Colonel Hastings led a relief column which arrived on 5 June. Lady Stafford was eventually persuaded to leave, a small garrison remaining to defend the castle against a renewed siege. Finally, in late June, the Royalist garrison fled, having heard that a large Parliamentarian army was approaching, complete with siege cannon capable of overwhelming the small garrison. The castle then fell into Parliamentarian control and was demolished. On 22 December, not many months after its capture, the "Parliamentarian Committee of Stafford" ordered: "the Castle shall be forthwith demolished." When the traveller and diarist, Celia Fiennes passed through the town of Stafford in 1698, she noted: "...the castle which is now ruinated and there only remains on a hill the fortified trenches that are grown over green."

Re-emergence
By the 1790s only a single low wall remained to be seen above ground, and that was at risk of falling. Some workmen employed to underpin this wall discovered the buried castle basements and foundations, which ran off from the wall. Realising the likely extent of these basements, and the possibility of treasures within, they brought their discovery to the attention of Sir William Jerningham. Jerningham immediately ordered all the foundations and basements to be uncovered, and the whole mound to be cleared of overgrowth.

The castle was partly rebuilt in the Gothic Revival Style from 1813. Yet this work was soon discontinued partly through the lack of funds, and also because the Jerningham family were elevated to the peerage (one of their motives for the restoration project). Dubbed by some as a 'folly', this was never the case, as the Keep was always intended to be lived in, and was occupied well into the 20th century.

Post-war
In the immediate post-war years, the mature woodland that surrounded the Keep was felled, which may have led to the structure being exposed to high winds. By 1949 large pieces of masonry had begun to fall from the towers, which were declared unsafe. Mr. and Mrs. Stokes, the last caretakers of the castle and its grounds, vacated the building that winter. The site became a target for vandals and in 1961 Lord Stafford gave the Keep to the local authority.

In 1978 professional excavations began to show the complex archaeology of the site, which had been for generations the seat of one of the most important families in the region. The excavations continued for many years, becoming one of the area's biggest employers of young people during the severe economic depression of the early 1980s. These excavations and establishment of a reconstructed medieval herb garden were documented over many years by the BBC.

On the site's official public opening in 1988, a heritage trail was established with signage and interpretation, and new fencing on improved trails. In 1992 a new purpose-built museum and gift/refreshments shop opened on-site below the castle mound.

title: Stafford Castle


text:
Ted Kulongoski

Theodore Ralph Kulongoski (born November 5, 1940) is an American politician, judge, and lawyer who served as the 36th Governor of Oregon from 2003 to 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he served in both houses of the Oregon Legislative Assembly and also served as the state Insurance Commissioner. He was the Attorney General of Oregon from 1993 to 1997 and a justice of the Oregon Supreme Court from 1997 to 2001. Kulongoski has served in all three branches of the Oregon state government.

Early life and education
Kulongoski was born in St. Louis, Missouri, in 1940 to Theodore Kulongoski (1905-1941), the son of Polish immigrants, and his wife Helen, née Newcomer (1915-1997). He was one year old when his father died of cancer, and spent the rest of his childhood in a Catholic boys' home. After high school, Kulongoski served in the Marines. With the help of the G.I. Bill, he obtained an undergraduate and Juris Doctor from the University of Missouri School of Law in 1970.

Career
After graduating from law school, Kulongoski moved to Eugene, Oregon, and became a labor lawyer. In 1974, Kulongoski was elected to the Oregon House of Representatives and, in 1978, to the Oregon State Senate. In Oregon's 1980 United States Senate election, he ran an unsuccessful race against Republican Bob Packwood. In 1982, he made his first bid for governor; he was defeated by Republican incumbent Victor G. Atiyeh.

At the 1980 Democratic National Convention then-State Senator and U.S. Senate nominee Kulongoski received 8 (0.24%) delegate votes for Vice President of the United States. Kulongoski was not a candidate and incumbent Walter Mondale was easily renominated.

In 1987, Oregon Governor Neil Goldschmidt appointed Kulongoski to the post of state insurance commissioner. In that role, Kulongoski reformed the state's workers' compensation insurance system, a move that is widely credited for lowering costs to business.

1992 and 1996 elections
In 1992, Kulongoski was elected as Oregon Attorney General, defeating Republican Rich Rodeman. As Attorney General, he focused on reforming the juvenile justice system. In 1996, Kulongoski decided against running for re-election as Attorney General, and instead successfully ran for the Oregon Supreme Court. He resigned from the court in 2001 to run for governor.

2002 gubernatorial election
After winning the Democratic party nomination in the 2002 race for governor, Kulongoski's opponent was Republican Kevin Mannix. Kulongoski ran a low-key campaign, emphasizing his reputation as a consensus-builder and problem solver. His television commercials featured such feel-good scenes as the candidate bowling. He argued for a pragmatic approach to solving the state's budget crisis and recession, a marked departure from the more confrontational style of outgoing governor (and fellow Democrat) John Kitzhaber. Mannix argued that the Democratic Party had held the governorship in Oregon too long, and pledged to reduce government spending without cutting vital services. Kulongoski narrowly won the election, winning 618,004 votes (49%), with 581,785 votes (46%) going to Mannix, and 57,760 votes (5%) going to Libertarian candidate Tom Cox.

Kulongoski took office on January 13, 2003. He inherited a state facing a massive budget deficit and high unemployment. Furthermore, he faced the task of dealing with problems with the public employees' pension system without angering the labor unions that backed his campaign. As Governor, he was a member of the National Governors Association and the Democratic Governors Association.

2006 gubernatorial election
On December 1, 2005, the Eugene Register-Guard reported that former Democratic Governor John Kitzhaber was considering challenging Kulongoski in the Democratic primary. One month later, Kitzhaber announced he would not do so, as did another potential Democratic rival, State Senator Vicki Walker. This left Kulongoski with two challengers: Lane County Commissioner Pete Sorenson, and former State treasurer Jim Hill, both of whom accused Kulongoski of betraying Democratic Party principles. Stated Hill, "From my standpoint, [the Democratic Party primary debate] is a good opportunity to show what a horrible Democrat Ted has been". The Service Employees International Union Local 503 endorsed Jim Hill, and the Multnomah County Democratic Central Committee decided to endorse Kulongoski's rivals but not him at a February 19, 2006 meeting.

On May 16, 2006, Kulongoski won the Democratic primary with 54% of the vote. Jim Hill finished second with 25%, Pete Sorenson third with 16% of the vote.

Kulongoski faced multiple opponents in the general election: Republican Party candidate Ron Saxton, Constitution Party candidate Mary Starrett, Libertarian Party candidate Richard Morley, and Pacific Green Party candidate Joe Keating. Former Republican Ben Westlund planned on running as independent, but on August 10, 2006, withdrew from the race, stating that "I made a commitment to the people of Oregon that I was in it to win it and that I absolutely would not play a spoiler role".

On November 7, 2006, Kulongoski won a second term, 51% to 43% over Ron Saxton.

Second term
In February 2007, Kulongoski and State Senator Brad Avakian worked to clarify that Oregon recognizes no position of "state climatologist" in response to the use of that title by Oregon State University professor George H. Taylor, who believes that human activities are not the main cause of global climate change. Kulongoski said the state needs a consistent message on reducing greenhouse gases to combat climate change.

Beginning the week of April 24, 2007, Kulongoski gained national attention when he joined a campaign, known as the food stamp challenge, that portrays the difficulty living on the average weekly food stamp allotment of $21.

Kulongski announced May 8, 2007 that Oregon will join the Climate Registry to track dangerous greenhouse gas emissions.

Kulongoski signed two LGBT rights bills into law: a domestic partnership bill and an anti-discrimination bill at a ceremony May 9, 2007.

In May 2010, Kulongoski suffered a vitreous hemorrhage in the eye due to fragile, abnormal blood vessels that have grown in the retina of the eye. According to Kulongoski spokeswoman Anna Richter Taylor, he was scheduled for outpatient surgery at Oregon Health & Science University on June 30, 2010, to surgically remove the vitreous gel from the middle of the eye so full vision can be restored.

Later life
After leaving the governor's office, he was appointed by John Kitzhaber to the Public Safety Commission as part of a review of Oregon's sentencing guidelines. In 2012, Kulongoski joined the faculty at Portland State University in the school's Mark O. Hatfield School of Government.

title: Ted Kulongoski


text:
Talk:Interest

Dr. Derviz's comment on this article
Dr. Derviz has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

"Section "Interest rates and credit risk" is very inaccurate. Interest rates and credit risk are related regardless of the business cycle, their relation is much more fundamental. There is a paper by Stiglitz and Weiss (1981) showing this in an elementary model. Also, default risk exists regardless of the interest being fixed or variable, so that any mention of Jarrow-Turnbull and similar work should be preceded by a more basic discussion of default being a function of the borrower's income or wealth in relation to the debt service (here, the Black-Scholes-Merton, 1974, framework is both most standard and easiest to present)."

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

Dr. Derviz has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:

 * Reference : Alexis Derviz & Marie Rakova, 2009. "Funding Costs and Loan Pricing by Multinational Bank Affiliates," Working Papers 2009/9, Czech National Bank, Research Department.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 18:27, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

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Theories of interest
I added a section on theories of interest in economics (some of which I’d previously put on the page ‘interest rate’). There was a very brief sketch on the topic already, most of which I’ve kept. A lot of the rest follows Schumpeter. There’s probably too much of Keynes and too little of Wicksell and the Austrians, but I’m not competent to fill the gaps.

It seems to me that the distinction between the subject matters of this page and of ‘interest rate’ is a little fine, whereas there is a more natural distinction between ‘interest (economics)’ and ‘interest (finance)’. Colin.champion (talk) 10:00, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree the distinction is unclear to me; can someone explain what the distinction is intended to be? I'm not sure what exactly Colin is proposing, but if it involves dividing "concrete and practical formulas for the rate a specific person pays on a specific loan" away from "abstract aggregate macroeconomic analysis of the interest rate", then I'm all for it. Presumably this would involve an annoying merge of the current content of Interest and Interest rate.Rolf H Nelson (talk) 19:30, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
 * My suggestion wasn’t well thought through. Your distinction seems reasonable to me. The main thing is to have a hatnote at the top of 'Interest rate’ saying (e.g.) “This page is about the definition and numerical values of the interest rate. For other uses see Interest”. If some such hatnote can be agreed, I’d be willing to attempt the merging myself, though other people could do it better. Colin.champion (talk) 14:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I’ve done a partial reorganisation (more tomorrow if I’m not stopped short). I can’t claim I’m always confident I’m making the right decisions, but the pages look more consistent and it’s good to have the hatnotes. Colin.champion (talk) 15:29, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I made some more changes and thought I’d finished, then saw that I’d been reverted, and my changes criticised, on the page on ‘interest rate’. So I’ve drawn to a halt. Please note that I’d deleted a few sections which seemed to duplicate material elsewhere. All the deletions are at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interest&oldid=813805565#Other_aspects Colin.champion (talk) 10:06, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This all came to nothing owing to unwelcome attentions, but I’ve reinstated what I wrote on Theories of Interest since I don’t think there’s much wrong with it. It was described as ‘unsourced’ but had about 22 footnote references (1 per 662 bytes) and about another 11 citations in the text. This compares with 1 footnote reference per 733 bytes in ‘Interest rate’ and 1 per 2632 in the rest of ‘Interest’. Colin.champion (talk) 08:00, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Fake definition leads this word no more
Everyone knows if someone or something has an "interest" in something in the financial world, then he or she possesses an ownership or similar stake in that something. The nonsense around the usury aspect of the term leading this Wiki entry is indefensible, as it's not based in etymology; in fact, it's based in propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greggzuk (talk • contribs)

 * The purpose of the lead section is to summarize the article, and the current article is not about the definition you propose. - MrOllie (talk) 09:52, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Interest (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Interest


text:
Waikikamukau

Waikikamukau (, as if saying "Why kick a moo cow") is a generic name for a small rural town or locality in New Zealand. New Zealanders use the name as a placeholder name for "any town" or to denote a non-specific but remote rural town. It has a similar connotation to the New Zealand slang Wop Wops and the Australian term Woop Woop and other appellations such as the "Boondocks" or "Timbuktu". The name is a joking reference to the frequency of New Zealand place names starting with "Wai" (Māori for water, and used in the names of many rivers and nearby towns).

Waikikamukau is reputed to specifically refer to the town of Waipukurau in the North Island. The origins are hazy but one account is that the American servicemen stationed in NZ during the Second World War found it difficult to pronounce the place name and thus jokingly called it Waikikamukau. However the name has been in use at least since 1930.

It was used as the name of a successful racehorse in the 1990s.

Waikikamukau was also used as the setting for a Nickelodeon telemovie, Rocket Power: Race Across New Zealand.

title: Waikikamukau


text:
Riothamus

Riothamus (also spelled Riutimus or Riotimus) was a Romano-British military leader, who was active circa AD 470. He fought against the Goths in alliance with the declining Western Roman Empire. He is called "King of the Britons" by the 6th-century historian Jordanes, but the extent of his realm is unclear. Some Arthurian scholars identify Riothamus as one of the possible sources of the legendary King Arthur.

Name
Riothamus is a Latinization of the Brythonic *Rigotamos, meaning 'Great King', 'Kingliest'. Alternatively, it may come from Brittonic *Riiotamos, meaning 'Freest'. The Brittonic form survived into Old Welsh as Riatav (Modern Welsh Rhiadaf) and Old Breton Riat(h)am.

Realm
It is not clear whether Jordanes' "Britons" refers to the Britons of Great Britain itself, or of Armorica, which was undergoing significant British settlement and later came to be known as Brittany.

The Old Breton name Riatam, which (like Riothamus) is derived from Brittonic *Rigotamos, appears in medieval Breton records (primarily biographies of early Breton saints) as one of the Princes of Domnonée (a coastal region in Brittany which takes its name from Dumnonia in southern Britain). He is identified as a son of Deroch II. For chronological reasons, this Riatam is probably a different individual from Jordanes' Riothamus, who lived earlier.

Correspondence with Sidonius Apollinaris
More secure information is provided by a letter which has survived that was written to Riothamus from Sidonius Apollinaris, bishop of Clermont, who requested his judgment for "an obscure and humble person" who had had his slaves enticed away by a group of armed Bretons. According to C.E.V. Nixon, the letter is evidence that Armorica at this time was becoming "like a magnet to peasants, coloni, slaves and the hard-pressed" as Roman power weakened. Poorer subjects of Rome with no stake in land ownership found Breton territory to be a safe haven from the Goths.

The letter

 * Sidonius Riothamo suo salutem.
 * Servatur nostri consuetudo sermonis: namque miscemus cum salutatione querimoniam, non omnino huic rei studentes, ut stilus noster sit officiosus in titulis, asper in paginis, sed quod ea semper eveniunt, de quibus loci mei aut ordinis hominem constat inconciliari, si loquatur, peccare, si taceat. sed et ipsi sarcinam vestri pudoris inspicimus, cuius haec semper verecundia fuit, ut pro culpis erubesceretis alienis. Gerulus epistularum humilis obscurus despicabilisque etiam usque ad damnum innocentis ignaviae mancipia sua Britannis clam sollicitantibus abducta deplorat. incertum mihi est an sit certa causatio; sed si inter coram positos aequanimiter obiecta discingitis, arbitror hunc laboriosum posse probare quod obicit, si tamen inter argutos armatos tumultuosos, virtute numero contubernio contumaces, poterit ex aequo et bono solus inermis, abiectus rusticus, peregrinus pauper audiri. vale.

Translation

 * To his friend Riothamus
 * I will write once more in my usual strain, mingling compliment with grievance. Not that I at all desire to follow up the first words of greeting with disagreeable subjects, but things seem to be always happening which a man of my order and in my position can neither mention without unpleasantness, nor pass over without neglect of duty. Yet I do my best to remember the burdensome and delicate sense of honour which makes you so ready to blush for others' faults. The bearer of this is an obscure and humble person, so harmless, insignificant, and helpless that he seems to invite his own discomfiture; his grievance is that the Bretons are secretly enticing his slaves away. Whether his indictment is a true one, I cannot say; but if you can only confront the parties and decide the matter on its merits, I think the unfortunate man may be able to make good his charge, if indeed a stranger from the country unarmed, abject and impecunious to boot, has ever a chance of a fair or kindly hearing against adversaries with all the advantages he lacks, arms, astuteness, turbulences, and the aggressive spirit of men backed by numerous friends. Farewell.
 * I will write once more in my usual strain, mingling compliment with grievance. Not that I at all desire to follow up the first words of greeting with disagreeable subjects, but things seem to be always happening which a man of my order and in my position can neither mention without unpleasantness, nor pass over without neglect of duty. Yet I do my best to remember the burdensome and delicate sense of honour which makes you so ready to blush for others' faults. The bearer of this is an obscure and humble person, so harmless, insignificant, and helpless that he seems to invite his own discomfiture; his grievance is that the Bretons are secretly enticing his slaves away. Whether his indictment is a true one, I cannot say; but if you can only confront the parties and decide the matter on its merits, I think the unfortunate man may be able to make good his charge, if indeed a stranger from the country unarmed, abject and impecunious to boot, has ever a chance of a fair or kindly hearing against adversaries with all the advantages he lacks, arms, astuteness, turbulences, and the aggressive spirit of men backed by numerous friends. Farewell.

War with the Goths
Jordanes states that Riothamus supported the Romans against the Visigoths led by Euric (who lived c. 440 – 484). In The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, he states that Riothamus brought a British army to supplement Roman forces but suffered defeat fighting against overwhelming odds when the Goths intercepted his force:

Jordanes, Getica, XLV.237–238
"Euricus ergo, Vesegotharum rex, crebram mutationem Romanorum principum cernens Gallias suo iure nisus est occupare. Quod conperiens Anthemius imperator Brittonum solacia postulavit. Quorum rex Riotimus cum duodecim milia veniens in Beturigas civitate Oceano e navibus egresso susceptus est. Vad quos rex Vesegotharum Eurichus innumerum ductans advenit exercitum diuque pugnans Riutimum Brittonum rege, antequam Romani in eius societate coniungerentur, effugavit. Qui amplam partem exercitus amissam cum quibus potuit fugiens ad Burgundzonum gentem vicinam Romanisque in eo tempore foederatam advenit. Eurichus vero rex Vesegotharum Arevernam Galliae civitatem occupavit Anthemio principe iam defuncto...."

Translation
"'Now Euric, king of the Visigoths, perceived the frequent change of Roman Emperors and strove to hold Gaul by his own right. The Emperor Anthemius heard of it and asked the Brittones for aid. Their King Riotimus came with twelve thousand men into the state of the Bituriges by the way of Ocean, and was received as he disembarked from his ships. (238) Euric, king of the Visigoths, came against them with an innumerable army, and after a long fight he routed Riotimus, King of the Britons, before the Romans could join him. So when he had lost a great part of his army, he fled with all the men he could gather together, and came to the Burgundians, a neighboring tribe then allied to the Romans. But Euric, king of the Visigoths, seized the Gallic city of Arvernum; for the Emperor Anthemius was now dead.'"

A letter from Sidonius Apollinaris to his friend Vincentius, written circa 468 AD, records that Roman officials intercepted a letter written by the Praetorian Prefect of Gaul, Arvandus, to the Visigothic king Euric stating that "the Britons stationed beyond the Loire should be attacked" and that the Visigoths and Burgundians (who were at the time clients of the Romans) should divide Gaul between them; this has led some scholars (such as Geoffrey Ashe) to suggest that Arvandus betrayed Riothamus. This letter does not mention Riothamus by name, however, and (based on the reconstruction of the chronology of Sidonius' letters), it is possible that Riothamus and his forces were not the direct subject of Arvandus' message to Euric, as Arvandus was already under arrest and on his way to Rome before Riothamus had even entered the fray against the Visigoths, sometime between 470 and 472 AD (the latter being the year of emperor Anthemius' death).

Gregory of Tours, Historia Francorum, II.18
Gregory of Tours seems to react to the outcome of the battle between the Visigoths and Britons:

"II.18. Quod Childericus Aurilianus et Andecavo venit Odovacrius. Igitur Childericus Aurilianis pugnas egit, Adovacrius vero cum Saxonibus Andecavo venit. Magna tunc lues populum devastavit. Mortuus est autem Egidius et reliquit filium Syagrium nomine. Quo defuncto, Adovacrius de Andecavo vel aliis locis obsedes accepit. Brittani de Bituricas a Gothis expulsi sunt, multis apud Dolensim vicum peremptis. Paulos vero comes cum Romanis ac Francis Gothis bella intulit et praedas egit. Veniente vero Adovacrio Andecavus, Childericus rex sequenti die advenit, interemptoque Paulo comite, civitatem obtinuit. Magnum ea die incendio domus aeclesiae concremata est."

Translation
"II.18. How Childeric went to Orleans and Odoacer to Angers. Now Childeric fought at Orléans and Odoacer came with the Saxons to Angers. At that time a great plague destroyed the people. Aegidius died and left a son, Syagrius by name. On his death Odoacer received hostages from Angers and other places. The Britanni were driven from Bourges by the Goths, and many were slain at the village of Déols. Count Paul with the Romans and Franks made war on the Goths and took booty. When Odoacer came to Angers, king Childeric came on the following day, and slew count Paul, and took the city. In a great fire on that day the house of the bishop was burned."

Riothamus as King Arthur or Ambrosius Aurelianus
Riothamus has been identified as a candidate for the historical King Arthur by several scholars over the centuries, notably the historian Geoffrey Ashe, primarily due to Riothamus's activities in Gaul, which bear a casual resemblance to King Arthur's Gallic campaign as first recorded by Geoffrey of Monmouth in his Historia Regum Britanniae. Geoffrey Ashe has suggested a link between Riothamus' alleged betrayal by Arvandus and Arthur's betrayal by Mordred in the Historia Regum Britanniae, and proposes that Riothamus' last known position was near the Burgundian town of Avallon (not noted by any ancient source mentioning Riothamus), which he suggests is the basis for the Arthurian connection to Avalon.

Academic historian Léon Fleuriot argued that Riothamus is identical to Ambrosius Aurelianus, a historical figure in Britain around this time who, in the early narratives containing Arthur, preceded Arthur. Fleuriot suggested that "Riothamus" was Aurelianus' title as overlord of all Brythonic territories. He noted that "Riothamus" and Aurelianus are contemporaneous and that Aurelianus is the only British leader of the time who is identified (much later) as ruling both Brythons and Franks, which could only be the case if he ruled territory in Brittany. He also suggested that the name "Abros" in Breton genealogies is a contraction of "Ambrosius" and that Nennius indicates that Ambrosius was supreme ruler of the Britons, which, Fleuriot argues, would translate as "Riothamus". Fleuriot suggested that Ambrosius led the Britons in the battle against the Goths, but then returned to Britain to continue the war against the Saxons.

title: Riothamus


text:
Talk:John Maclean's Speech From the Dock

Wikipedia is not a repository for original texts. (See What Wikipedia is not). Please summarise, add more context, and provide a pointer to an on-line copy of this speech for reference purposes. -- The Anome 12:45 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Heartily seconded. Utterly unencyclopedic. - Scherzo triste 20:53 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)

This should be merged with the main article on Maclean, and the full text added to Wikisource. PatGallacher (talk) 18:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


text:
JB

JB or J.B. may refer to:

Literature

 * J.B. (play), a 1958 play by Archibald MacLeish in verse, based on the Book of Job
 * Jerusalem Bible, a 1966 Roman Catholic Bible translation

People

 * BlocBoy JB (born 1996), American rapper
 * JB (Swedish musician), Swedish musician
 * Jaffar Byn, Swedish rapper known as JB
 * JB (Canadian rapper), Canadian male rapper
 * JB (South Korean singer) (born 1994), South Korean musician
 * J. B. Smoove (born 1965), American actor and comedian
 * Jack Black (born 1969), American actor and comedian
 * Joe Biden (born 1942), president of the United States
 * Justin Bieber (born 1994), Canadian singer
 * Jesse Baird (1997–2024), Australian television presenter and AFL umpire

Technology and engineering

 * British Rail Class 73 locomotives
 * Jungfraubahn, a rack railway

Other uses

 * Johor Bahru, a city in Malaysia
 * J&B RARE Whisky, by Justerini & Brooks
 * JB Hi-Fi, Australia
 * JB Catalogue of Malta Stamps and Postal History
 * Jornal do Brasil, a newspaper
 * Junior branch, members of CISV aged 11-25
 * Helijet (IATA code JB)
 * , local train services on the Chūō–Sōbu Line in Japan

title: JB