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Talk:Newbie/Archive 1

Noobs and newbies
Noobs are not newbies. Noobs are chatspeaking, foolish, nit-wits who's only pupose is to make other people miserable and to argue with other noobs. Newbies are people who are new to something and they might not know about rules and other things. If someone is a newbie on Wikipedia, they might accidentally vandalize an article (like adding something that might seem too opiniondated), while a noob would porposely vandalise an article for fun. B katt 500 21:10, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The origin of the word "Newb" and all its variants, come from the word "Newborn".-MG

See Mike
Mike is a perfect noob in all games he trys to play, in comon internet language, we sometimes say : "oh my god u r so mike" to a noob who is anyoing other people. By the way, the name "Fred" is lot used in canada and cold countrys to describe someone as a mix of a noob and an intellectual deficient. For people who know this expression, call someone a "f**ing Fred" is so badly more vexing then a sob (son of a bi**) or a mofu (motherfu**er).

 * The only noobs on Wikipedia are those childish fools who must use the encyclopedia to insult each other. Please keep your bickering offline. Nihiltres 15:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Etymology
I was thinking that newbie is a shorter, slang form of newcomer. It makes sense to me... you have that word, then cross out the "comer" and put in "ie" to make it mean new-like. Also, that's congruent with the US Army usage.

Also, newb or noob is normally used equitatively(sp?) and everyone feels equally insulted when you use either one of them. Although it is true that if you want to say it without ill meaning, you do use newb or newbie rather than noob. But both are used offensively. Just that noob is easier to type.

Also, there is a rather large portion in "Newb vs. noob" that explains the usage of both of them... shoulden't there be another section for that instead?

I'll go ahead and add "newcomer" to the etymology LeinaD natipaC 15:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

n00b is most correct when in WOW but nowhere else

Don't forget Runescape

Protection
I had requested to have this article protected last week, as it was for 4 days. And since it was un-protected we have a ish-load of vandalism. Given the nature of this article, I highly reccomend this be protected for as long as possible in the future. ONly when we have a sandbox version of the next revision should it be unprotected, and only for that time. Theres just way too much vandalism --Larsinio 16:00, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I did request protection, someone unprotected it. I'll get it protected again --Larsinio 17:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

"ONly when we have a sandbox version of the next revision should it be unprotected, and only for that time." (sic) ...This seems a bit extreme. Assuming that this plan goes through, where will this sandbox be? And for that matter, what if this sandbox is vandalized? This article, because of its nature, gets vandalized, but that's no reason to protect it - vandalism will strike any unprotected, editable version. We can therefore never have an editable version. That, however, would be in violation of Wikipedia's principles by adding an extremely static nature to the page. While I understand the validity of your request in that this page is often vandalized, protection of the page also results in the blockage of valid edits that add to the article. Please find support or stop reprotecting this article; you're preventing valid edits from being made. Nihiltres 02:33, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I have been monitoring this articlke for a while, and the valid edits you talk about or one or two minor grammatical fixes on the most part. On the other hand this page is vandalized many times a day.the sand box version can be anywhere, on anyones user page or something. Its not a big deal i think its the most practical way of dealing with thsi frequently vandalized page --Larsinio

 * Isn't this the type of article frequently vandalized by anons yet having little actual controversy with experienced editors, and thus perfectly fitting for the semi-protection? Elvarg 11:40, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Please remove protection. This is tha tinternet not tha game server.

I just removed the comment "Also Enrique Guerrero is a noob." I am just checking to see if it should have been removed, I searched for "Enrique Guerrero" but I was unable to find and link between him and the meaning of noob so I deleted it, presuming that it was placed there by someone who knew Enrique Guerrero and was trying to prank or embarrass him. Please tell me if deleting it was correct as I am new to editing Wikipedia articles and I would appreciate some feedback Communist0 07:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Other changes
Re recent change: n00b or noob in leet (1337) -speak, is not the same.

What with that "pimmel" - stuff in German ? I don't think that is really realted to noob at all nor is it common tongue in German to call newbies. Pimmel is a slightly less strong version of dick or prick in German. I think that a paragraph should be deleted unless somebody comes up with a convincing justification and reference.

I've probably been on the internet longer than you. I say they mean they same but the term was created to be rude towards newcomers either way you look at it or to show your judgement towards a person by referring to them as a newcomer into the internet world (most of this happened in 94 when AOL was supposedly hip and new). Newbie is just more formal and properly spelled. n00b came about mainly because everyone liked leet talk. If you're like me you'll remember that there were progs and bots people could use to transform regular ascii alphabet into the other ascii that looked totally weird. Many progs created leet talk and replaced Os with 0s. N00b is just a fun way of saying noob in leet. Noob was created just like newb but people wanted to branch of and make it more cool. So people split between newb and noob and chose noob mainly because newb related to the formal term newbie. Thus noob came about. However, as the internet changed more and more people found ways to apply these new terms. When someone was a polite newbie people referred to them as a newbie. When someone asked the same question over and over they called them a noob. When someone became annoying and someone felt like acting stupid with leet in reply to them they may have used n00b. By the way if you're not a noob go do stuff in the request section in wikipedia for computer science. Also, noob was created as a shortcut way of newbie. However it's used on the internet in many different ways and the viewpoint towards it changes with each person.--Cyberman 05:24, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

So, how do they differ? --Menchi 04:53, Aug 13, 2003 (UTC)

 * "n00b" for someone who acts experieced in areas dispite little knowledge in those areas, also occasionally "pr013", short for "proletariat". (Various other adjectives abound, these being the most civil of them.) (from Leet). Gaurav 13:29, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Should this page be put in Wikitionary?--Alsocal

Newbie = new bee? Really? A Google search for newbie "new bee" turns up this page as its first reference. According to the the Jargon File, the term originated in talk.bizarre, but no further information is given. Can anyone find a cite for this? --Ardonik 10:14, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I came to this article specifically to see the etymology and I have to say it seems extremely strained to me. My guess would have been a corruption of "new boy", but I'm certainly not going to suggest I'm right.  Or, ooh!  Perhaps I should!     - right, I'm making a change based on those. --bodnotbod 01:56, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Is it really that complicated? I don't think it comes from "new bee" or "new boy". Can it just be a slangy way of identifying someone? Like "Cutie" or "Sweetie". Sometimes, I'll put -y or -ie on the end of a word then the word is "full of it's meaning", like "That has a strong grape taste to it. It's very Grape-y" I need more proof that it could have come from "new boy" mbishop 05:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

My understanding has long been that negative uses of the term predate the currently popular warm-and-fuzzy version. I've found some older references to "newbie" in a negative since but the only positive references I've found are fairly recent. I would appreciate any other input on this issue. Aranel 21:45, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This was just added: "A new usage of noob is appearing in computer games (mostly in First Person Shooters), generally to describe a cheater, a jerk, and quite possibly a person who constantly use one type of weapon (i.e, shotgun n00b)."

I removed it, because I'm not sure it's actually new (actually, I know it's not new). It's just a logical continuation of the standard derogatory meaning of the term. ("Since you appear not to know how to play properly or to succeed without cheating, you must be new.") I was using "newbie" the same way in different contexts at least eight years ago. ("You're behaving like you don't know the rules/conventions - you're new, right?") [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:56, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The "semantics" section was apparently removed alltogether after it was temporarily converted to a personal attack on August 18, 2005. Can someone return it? -- 00:17, 20 Aug 2005

Contradictions
We need to make it more clear the difference between a newbie/newb and a n00b/noob. The 'Negative connotations' section seems to describe a n00b rather than a newb, i.e., "a new user who asks allegedly "dumb" questions (typically questions which are clearly answered in a list of rules or frequent questions) and whose behavior does not conform to the accepted standards of the community (often to the point of rudeness)."

 * That's because a noob is a newbie. The term newbie originally (I think this is original, anyway) meant almost exactly the same thing that noob means today in some circles. In many places, a newbie is still someone who matches the above description, and a lot of folks who recall the older definition are still offended at being called newbie.
 * Basically, we can't really make a more clear distinction because there isn't one. A noob is the same thing as the negative version of newbie. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 16:47, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * No, on most websites n00b means a flaming, spamming, incomprehensible, idiotic turd. A newbie is just someone new to the site. It's n00b because it's a cross between a newbie and a 'boob' as in something useless. (Not that boobs are useless :)) However newbie is 'new bee'. LordMooCow 01:42, 3 July 2005 (GMT+10)

 * I must agree with LordMooCow as newbies can be intelligent. They may not know every aspect of the certain game or website, but they may read the FAQs and listen to what people are saying. Only ignorant people would classify newbies as a n00b as well because that would be a possible example of stereotyping and you wouldn't want that, would you? :) Kotoko 19:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

 * There seems to be a lot of these small "Newb vs noob" meaning discussions. Can someone merge them? While we're at it, how about we say it's contextual, but newb is rarely negative. 209.217.83.138 21:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Generation Gap?
"Noob" was never originally used as an insult towards a new player nor did it ever represent a derogatory term for a newb, newbie or however you wish to call it as when it first came to the 'scene', it was merely a play on a new player in leetspeak which itself was in it's infancy.

I can only assume that this "Noob" term has come to be taken as insulting more out of ignorance/redefinition rather then factual occurance. Reasoning: Give that since "Noob" was coined, many years have past and thus it being so "Old" has just suffered from a form of redefinition.

As time passes, those considered "Noobs" of old are in fact elite type users of today. Users of today who are truly new to the situation have taken on their own term, "Newb" or in fact, one of the many other terms simply because there are millions more users today on the internet and thus, by natural occurance, you're going to have more interpretations of the spelling. Therefore, if you look back at "Noob", it represents a once "Newbie" of years ago who is now experienced and thus lies the possibility of it being throught of as a "Rude" term where not only is it an old term and therefore anyone still called a "Noob" must be a seasoned user still 'acting a fool', but it also implies the use of a coined phrase of over 15 years ago so in effect, "Noob" could be like calling someone today a "Hippie" instead of an "Environmentalist". Even in the mid 1990's, to be called an "Environmentalist" or part of the "Green Party" carried undertones of being looked down upon by some but when first coined, it wasn't. Same thing may of happened to "Noob".

In a sense I have sort of supported the term "Noob" being an insult but only in post as it never was in the first place, never knew it to be and was never told by 1000's of computer users that it was.

Interesting how The Machine (in this case Wikipedia) can be a source of manipulation rather then true fact. For the record, no, Noob is not an insult, or at least is never was intended to be.

Flaming
I'm a newbie myself, got to start by posting somewhere and this seemed like a sensible place.

Anyway, you use the word hazing. I was going to suggest the addition of the word flaming as it is frequently used in this context and actually describes the activity you are referring to more accurately.

Removed insertion
This was added after the first paragraph under n00b: "As time goes on, the term 'n00b' is receiving a broader definition. It is now commonly used when referring to an especially stupid person regardless of how long they have actually interacted with the game, website, etc." This is actually true, but it's redundant with information already in the article. (Also, it would be more accurate to say this of the word newbie, as n00b is a derivative of the former, and the two words are now practically identical in meaning.) -Aranel (" Sarah ") 22:58, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Spelling
I have removed a section claiming that newb has a specialized meaning. I'm sure that it does have that meaning in the community where the editor who inserted it learned it, but that's not a distinction that is generally made.

As far as I have been able to determine (and I've been exposed to a lot of internet communities), the spelling does not generally make a big difference (or, rather, if you intend it to make a difference, that's fine, but outside of the community where you learned to make that distinction, you cannot it expect to be understood). In current usage, whether you spell it newbie, newb, n00b, etc., it increasingly means about the same thing. (In a couple of years we'll probably have to invent a whole new word if we want to tell the various usages apart!)

I do think that there are two broad trends: one meaning that is basically positive and one that is basically negative. However, which spelling is attached to which meaning (or whether both meanings exist in the same place at the same time) is increasingly arbitrary.

Within a particular community, noob might be used almost exclusively in a negative sense and newb might be self-deprecating, while newbie is a perfectly polite word for a newcomer. This is not standard. Within another community, all three might be consisted equally insulting, or equally inconsequential.

Maybe I'm not articulating this very well. People keep adding sections to this article about how such-and-such variation has such-and-such specific meaning, but I really don't think that's how the word in general actually works. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 04:43, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

How people get this wrong
A n00b is not necessarily a new person. On a network, chat room, game. It is somebody who asks either dumb questions or acts like they know the answer to one and don't. Being a n00b is a BAD thing. However a newb, or newbie is a new person on a network, chat room, game, etc. that does not ask dumb questions and does not act like they konw all. Being a newb or newbie is not bad. So to sum it up, n00b is derogatory, newbie is either neutral or has a positive connotation to it. Anybody who claims to be on the internet longer then another person goes under the n00b list. As long as one is not cocky and knows what they are talking about, a new person can go without ever being called a n00b or newbie. Time means very little. One can be on the internet for 20 years, as soon as they go into a new chat room, they are a newbie because they do not have name recognition.

n00b == bad; newb && newbie == neutral || good;

 * n00b is just a 'l33t' way of spelling newbie... So if anyone is getting this wrong, it's you. Robrecht 22:58, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually he's correct N00b or noob, are both acceptable, they are a completely different conotation to "newb".  To call one self a newbie to something is perfectly acceptable in most circles, it generally means your inexperienced or new to the area, and basically if you make a mistake please forgive it, but as stated n00b is a negative connotation.  N00b can be on the board for ever but they will continue to act as a new person, breaking rules for what ever reason (whether to annoy, or because they just don't want to learn).  It's quite different as meantioned.  However it doesn't mean that some places interchange them, the semi standard (as standardized as stuff gets for the internet at least, most chat systems, IRC, message board, and other posting places) is that n00b is negative, newb is not.--Kinglink 19:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * n00b means that you are not skilled in that way as well as the fact you are asking dumb questions or being annoying and a newb is a NEW PLAYER. being a new player and beong newb can be counted as insulting and many people may say RTFM but he is correct a n00b and a newb are different.

 * newb evolved to n00b e.g. how often do you see "newb" said these days? Skankyyoda 07:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC) A lot in RTS and more complex games not so much in FPS and MMOs

Nub?
Someone added "nub", an " (adorably clueless new player) " to the Etymology section. Doing a quick lookup on Google for "nub noob", it seems that it's merely another, yet shorter variant of "newbie" or "noob" and does not have any specific meaning related to adorable or clueless. Searching for "nub" brings up nothing related. I'm voting to modify or remove that entry, so please comment... I'm leaving it as is for now. Thanks, Nihiltres 16:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

jewb/j00b/jub/whatever
I'd say jewb has a pretty clear meaning... JEWb. It's implying the other person is a Jew, which is used provocatively and degradingly by some online users. My particular experiences with this word are on Bnet, where "warrers" (people who use bots to disrupt channel activity) frequently use jewb as an insult to get people riled up. Lantoka 02:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as I read the section on j00b and the like. It's also used as a replacement for "you" such as in "j00 is a hxx0r" or something similarly silly. It of course is meant to be fairly derogatory and insulting, so I'm confounded as to how and when this phenomenon originated, but I've seen it used all over CS: Source. Gravyfish 8:39 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Err.. "what are a Jewish woman's boobs called? Jewbs!" - from South Park --84.249.252.211 19:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I've been playing MMO's for nearly 5 years now, regularly troll their forums, and have not once seen j00 used as a reference to someone being jewish. It's always been used as a way of saying you in 1337, probably because there is no single-character leet equivalent for y, and in spanish, j is pronounced as a y would be in english.

Irony
Damn noobs keep vandalising the article! --Croperz 03:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Yup! That's what us 13375 are here for. Nihiltres 06:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Im tempted
This page is getting very heavy vandalism and I'm tempted to place the AFD tag on this as it should be more of a Wiktionary Candidate and not here --JAranda'' | watz sup 06:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It's only two stupid anons on different (but quite similar) IPs. Ban them, and it will almost completely quit. -- RattleMan 06:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * While it is true that this page receives heavy vandalism, it is, in my opinion at least, an encyclopedic topic. The vandalism it receives is natural given the topic: People (who are themselves noobs on Wikipedia!) post other people's names as examples; et cetera... the vandalism is minor and can be limited. Nihiltres 20:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Variants!
After having to tolerate many newbies to Wikipedia constantly adding new variants on the word "newbie", I'd like to organize this attempt at adding some of this information in a section for that purpose. If you happen to know of a variant on newbie, please add it to the list below, which I'll start with some of the more common variants. Once this contains a decent, categorized list, it can safely be posted in the article itself, as a valid contribution rather than many minor edits bordering on vandalism. Thanks. Nihiltres 18:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Looking at how long this list is getting, I think it needs some better formatting. Although I'm very busy with school and thus can't help much, the second phase of this list will be categorization. Since the goal is to sort the variants as they relate to the etymology of the word, try to make categories as such. The most obvious category visible to me right now is "animal/food-based variants" which would include noobcake and noobasaurus rex... I'm not going to start this because I'm not sure how to format it right. :P Thanks. Nihiltres 06:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Regarding n00v, as the person that added the term, im sorry if it was taken as possible vandalism. (guess that makes me a wikipedia "n00v") anyway, it is a genuine term (though still not that well known). Thats no problem, just there's no point of adding a few because they will always be reverted back. Adding them to this list, so that one day they can be added as a whole, is a better idea. You probably also don't know half of the variations mentioned above (i know about 3 :D). Slobo 16:53, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * newbie
 * noob
 * n00b
 * nub
 * moob
 * nube
 * Newblicon
 * nooblicon
 * nooblet (A young child who plays games and their age accounts for their lack of skills)
 * noobcake
 * nublet
 * noobtard
 * noobapotamus
 * noobasaurus rex
 * noobadactyl
 * newbsicle
 * naab
 * noobo
 * übern00b
 * n33b
 * n44b
 * n00v (a variation on "n00b" meaning worse than a "n00b")
 * nubcake (a bad new person, easy to dispose off)
 * nublette (a variation of nubcake, except... not)
 * nublette (A noob omelette)
 * nubwich (A noob sandwich)
 * nubsalad (A noob salad)
 * nuburger (A noob hamburger)
 * nuble (A noob bite-size cracker)
 * choob (a higher-level noob or troll)
 * Dewb
 * N00blet (A young child who plays games and their age accounts for their lack of skills)
 * |\|00B
 * |\|B
 * froob (F2P noob)
 * fr00b

 * You're right. I don't know half of them. I know the other half, and use the tamest 3 myself. Thanks for helping the cause. By the way, don't worry about the whole n00v thing; look at any Wikipedian's edits and there will be some newbie ones, myself included. ;) Nihiltres 02:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

 * You forgot 'noobsauce.' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.49.146.66 (talk • contribs) 20 April 2006 (UTC)

We should just establish another sub-section to the article listing every single possible variant from Neeber to Nubomelet to Nob. In fact many of these terms are themselves patronizing those who frequently use noob and its variants.--Exander 01:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I added froob and fr00b  puppy441 - (lvl 80)  On RS  14:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Confusion
Going by this article alone, I'm finding that it is redundant and often contradicts itself in several places. It ought to get a proper look-over. Xym 01:09, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Origin
It says the term noob was first used in the 80's by hackers on the BBS. Is that true? Are you sure your not meaning Newbie? I was always under the impression that the term "Noob" first came into existence with the creation of character Noob Saibot. Who was known to be very cheap and easy to use.--71.162.28.50 07:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Speaking of Noob Saibot, shouldn't Noob redirect instead to a disambiguation page between this article, Noob Saibot, The noob, and other similarly named articles? --Geopgeop 14:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well in the year 2002, I(firstshadow) was playing cs got tired of saying noob, so i made up my own version: nub. It got spread around so fast I was amazed..

The term came from newcomer  puppy441 - (lvl 80)  On RS  14:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Section ordering
The sections are currently ordered randomly. Could someone logically re-oder the subjects so that the article doesn't sound like a bunch of extended trivia?

Also, the entire article is original research.

POV material and bad link moved here
However, the term noob, is not the correct form of newbie, and is not considered the right way to say newbie or newb. Also now a new term for a noob has arised called a naab

 * The above link goes to a river in Germany, which had been modified to include some material on this variant. Moved to Naab (river) talk page. If naab is in fact commonly used, disambiguate?Ben Kidwell 18:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I knew a player who commonly used the term Nab rather than Noob - but attributed it to the way it sounded (he was scottish, and it is apparently the way they pronounce it there). Not sure if this is widespread enough though 81.187.26.106 21:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Article too long
I was just looking up the meaning of noob and was assaulted with all the useless information. I think this article must be shortened or merged with the l33tspeak or whatever article. Its just an internet slang. Whats worse is that the discussion page is even long. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.10.56.32 (talk • contribs).

I'm sorry but I disagree. I found the article to be relevant and interesting. No disrespect intended at all, but I am guessing that you are not a gamer and therefore this may not be interesting to non-gamers. But that same principle can relate to any subject. Non-chemists generally care very little about sp3 orbitals, etc. I do beleive that any gamers will approve of this article's length. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.33.1.37 (talk • contribs) 26 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I have had my share of gaming experience, and I feel noob is just another word for novice. But, however, some zealous gamers will have their own manner of chatting, this does not mean that all gamers chat like that. Just saying, no offence intended. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.10.56.32 (talk • contribs) 11 May 2006 (UTC)

n00b != newbie
Yes n00b started as the leet spelling of newbie however these days in most places on the internet (except amongst some people who themselves fall under the n00b steryotype) they are generally regarded as different things. Newbie= Someone who just happens to be new. Maybe breaks the occasional rule out of ignorance and all that but is willing to learn the correct way of doing things. Apart from being new they are otherwise just the same as a regular member. N00b= A newbie (usually- you can get eternal n00bs in places with lax moderation) who is a total idiot and goes around posting stupid things all the time despite people telling them to stop. Often 12 year old Americans by some strange quirk too. (note last part is joking- not suggesting anyhting like that should be included) This article needs a major overhall...--Josquius 17:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, n00b is inherently negative, compared to newb. This is part of a discussion that a whole gaming clan had a consensus over, considering n00b V. newb: n00b = someone who is incredibly anoying and knows nothing about the game or is just a stupid person nEWB = someone who is new to the game and not very adept at snipng, dueling, etc... so he was a newb/newbie not a noob/nub

Because of this I think that the leetspeak translation should be removed. Newbie is not the same as n00b. If noob is considered a new colloquial(sp?) word, then n00b is the leetspeak translation of that. Alexbrewer 14:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Incomplete reference to the origins of pwn
In the PWN article, it discusses multiple potential origins of the work "pwn". However, in the original ending to 'n00b vs newbie', the author seemed to state that pwn definitively originated from a typing error. I corrected that to state that the most popular theory stated that and referenced the "pwn" article —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.228.26.120 (talk • contribs) 16 April 2006 (UTC)

NOOB

noob is a word mostly used for online gaming. It refers to someone being new or "not so good" creating the word "noob". Of course there are different ways to spell and or pronounce this word. usually spelled "noob" it can also be spelled "n00b" "newb" "nub" and the newer version "nwb" all pronounced the same and all spelled differently. let me make a picture for you. say your playing some online game like "halo 2" and your running around trying to kill the other team as the objective and you suddenly die(by getting assassinated). now you can either call this a strategy or "a noob kill". now if the guy who killed you jumps out and kills you and you just didnt see it, it should be considered a "fair" kill, but if the guy just sits in a corner waiting for someone to come by...also know as "camping" then it would most likely be considered a "noob kill". unless you would be happening to be playing capture the flag and the object of your oppents team was defense. Killing of so called "noobs" either meens it was a really easy "fair" kill or that they just panicked and ran right into a trap. The complete destruction of a so called "noob" or any other normal player can be considered as "ownege". Ownege refers to an extremly well-planned kill or the complete massacre of a "noob"...Ownege also leads into "pwnege" or sometimes spelled "pwnedge" or just simply "pwn" or p00nag3... this word or words means the complete and total enhialation of 3 or more noobs in a series of 8 seconds or less..example: there are 3 noobs in a warthog heading right towards the enemys base while playing "team rockets"...first off they would be considered noobs becuase you can lock-on with a rocket to a vehicle and easily kill 75% of the team...so then you lock-on and shoot hitting the car and killing all three at once this would give you the right to say "pwned"        (Pure Ownedge)...>>this entry was submitted by Robert Harrison, who can be located on his xanga at www.xanga.com/eyepwnoobs_onhalo2   or www.xanga.com/stud_harrison

Information on Elite Forces/RPG-X not needed.
for most of the examples of "n00bing" we have "example, act of example, Act of example 2"

Most of the RPG-X can be done similarly simple lines as EVERYTHING that is meantioned there is "n00bish" and done on EVERY game, not just RPG-X. Spaming is a common problem, playing with the admin functions of the game, violating server rules, lame plots(or modules in Neverwinter night), bugging for advanced classes.

It'd be better to rewrite that whole Elite Force section into the aformeantioned format so it flows much better, singling out actions that are n00bish for that game can be done in that game's own wikipedia article if needed especially when you consider Elite Force and RPG-X is not exactly the top of the multiplayer chain, never drawing even a percentage of what a online MMORPG draws, so why exactly are we singling it out?--Kinglink 19:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

More Terms for Noobies (N00bies) (M00bies) (J00bies)
I have found some other terms that people use instead of noob and since the page is protected I will post them here so someone can edit them in for me, thanks in advance.

Frodo Noobins, Bilbo Noobins, Samwise Noobee, Noobegrin Took, Noobdalf, Noobiadoc Noobdybuck, noobloid, noobzilla, noobberg, noobblob, noobarama, the squire of noobility, nooble, the nooble knight, the Once and Future Noob, Thus Spoke Zaranoobstra, and finally noobbucket.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.29.123.77 (talk • contribs) 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Noob talk?
The following are more "1337 speak" than noob talk:

 * OMG KAN I HAV SOME FREE STUFFS PL0X!1!@!!
 * OMG I KILLZ0RZ U, G1V3 ME MONEY!!!@21111!
 * NUB!!1! IM UR GF! GIV3 ME PHR33 ST00F!

People will say things like this when making fun of noobs; actual noobs don't speak with numbers and symbols like that. So I'm going to go ahead and change it to this:

 * CAN I HAV SUM FREE STUFF PLZ????
 * give me mony or i kill u!!
 * im ur gf nub........giv me free stuff!!!1

Any objections? NuncAutNunquam 14:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

"knob" is an old derogatory piece of British English slang - it's not necessarily another form of noob. Secretlondon 00:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Who speaks like that for "real"? Come on, what's with this exaggarating and misleading textual information? I'll show you some real "noob talk" which is also known as "AOL talk" or "i'm a 36 year old single mother and cant really spell but here i am at these soccer mom forums with my aol connection and spell in a really lousy way, plus the slightly more poor grammer [sic] of course": "hi!! i thought u guys could help me out with these thing u c my friend told me that compusa has some new deals and that there relly better then other comp shops lol. [...] i no u guys think im a n00b but i jus though i ask and sorry btw for teh last stupid question i made when i cut my video card but my ****head friend told me to!!!" --84.249.252.211 19:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Who speaks like that for real? People who play online games such as RuneScape. They're probably mostly 10 year olds who don't know how to spell but trust me - people actually do speak like that. And noob talk is not synonymous with AOL talk (or Internet slang). Noob talk is more like actual ignorance in addition to misspellings while AOL talk is just abbreviations and improper punctuation. NuncAutNunquam 20:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There's no such thing as noob talk.. some noobs talk in 1337 to be annoying or because they think it's cool, some talk in bad grammar or spelling, and some talk normal(rare =P). Wesz 12:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Newbies, maybe - but I was always under the impression that noobs could never spell correctly. Meh, I dunno. It seems as though everyone has a different definition of noob. That's probably why this article keeps contradicting itself. Nunc Aut Nunquam  Talk 14:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

There should be sections as to what in means in different games.. I mean.. Noobs in runescape, noobs in neopets, Noobs WOW etc.

diflucan http://diflucan-moza.blogspot.com/ Good Luck!

Nub
Where did that 'Nub' section come from? As far as I know, 'Nub' Just is another way of saying noob. In all the online games i play nub means noob. Im removing the 'nub' section, anyone disagree? Wesz 05:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC) I agree. —Tareel  T C   07:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

neoboards-the FC
Someone should add that it began on neopets, the term "n00b", that is.

Got any proof? I don't believe it started at such an board as neoboards. Its mostly a shooting game therm and I don't consider Neopets a game that involves shooting. --E-Magination 11:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, it didn't start on the neoboards. Its just that people there put emphasis on the '00' part, say if you called someone a noob, people would say its n00b not noob.Wesz 12:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It didn't. Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the term has been around for a bit longer than Neopets itself, dating perhaps to 1997 or earlier. -- Anonymous

n00b
I rember there being something where the article whould say: "newbie(leet:n00b)" I don't see it anymore so I put it back in. I don't understand why would not be in the article since n00b is commonly used in online gaming.--Scott3 04:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

heirarchy
The official heirarchy of newbies is newbie > newb > noob > nub > nublet fact.

How is something like that a fact? How is it offical? Just curious... —Tareel  T C   07:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a fact because it's his opinion, and that's all that matters. ;) --Dreaded Walrus 18:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

lol ok.—Tareel  T C   06:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Tone- uses section
The Noobs in Internet gaming section reads like an experienced gamer who was frustrated at "newbs"- the tone needs to be less aggressive, I think. I may remember to have a go, but may not...EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 00:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Why?
Why is this here? A n00b and a newbie are entirely diffrent things.--Mac Lover Talk 00:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Addition to pop. culture?
how about adding this:

"Ctrl+Alt+Del recently created a comic based on the generally / widely accepted definition of Newb / Noob.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060823"

sorry, haven't figured out links yet (i'm still a newbie, haha)

Steamrunner 08:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

U.S.Navy Usage
I think this needs to be changed, the none useful body is only partly correct, it is also meant as a New Boot, somone fresh from boot camp. And further it is seldom used in a directly negative way but rather to simply goad new comers to the fleet to work hard and earn a place. This is from a number of years as a fleet sailor. JWPhil 19:09, 16 Sept 2006

ubernoob
how is that even possible?

Get some "Oldie" to write it? Oldies don't think so negative of the term. To us, many of you are newbie's, but we think that means you are just "new". We welcome you to the community and don't look down on you, for we were all once newbie's.

This is the worst definition I have yet to find in wikipedia. Rewrite it someone, please.

Social Rejection
"Noobs also ask questions with answers that can easily be found in the options menu of the game they are playing."

To be honest, vast swathes of this passage read like a giant dig at newbies. That bit just sounds like a crude and unnecessary generalisation. Sort it out, please... [Random n00b] 00:12, 23 October 2006 (GMT)

Link change
Why did you add a link to the urban dictionary definition of NUB?

Instead it should link to: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob

Article "Nub"
This article needs to be removed. It contains incorrect info.

If you are going to write an article about it, please know what the hell you are talking about.

Other uses of noob
Some players will talk to there friends after making a new charactor and call it there noob Jakeflamedude 21:50 Novemeber 21 2006

An unconstructive suggestion
change the "Editing of this article by unregistered or newly registered users is currently disabled." message to "Editing of this article by newbies is currently disabled." Martian Kyo 11:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

 * It would be really funny if it could say "editing of this article by TOTAL N00BS is currently disabled." But it wouldn't be very professional. Grand  master  ka  04:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Army usage
True, maybe; but these examples are from books obviously written by authors reluctant to include the obscene version of newbie used in Vietnam during the war. And that was FNG, which means a "Fucking New Guy". Kguirnela 09:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Anyone notice this?
In the current featured articel, History of the board game Monopoly, it makes the claim that, quote: "In the UK it was published in 1913 by the Newbie Game Company under the title Brer Fox an' Brer Rabbit." Is this a wild co-incidence or is this word even older? 68.39.174.238 02:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Origin of newb
The origin of the word "Newb" and ll its variants, come from the word "Newborn".-MG

No it comes from "newcomer".  puppy441 - (lvl 80)  On RS  14:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

New boy.
"Newb" simply originates fromt he word "Newborn"-MG

The term definitely originated as prep school slang; the Jargon File says it's of British origin. Used to describe the youngest students at the school and/or the most recently enrolled, short for "new boy". Nowadays it's considered to be gender-neutral as private schools have enrolled girls. I've heard this expression in use for decades, long before widespread use of the Internet. I suspect that it far pre-dates US Army use from the Vietnam era. If this article is going to be of good quality, it needs to reflect the term's origins before diving into the complex usage of "n00b". Venicemenace 18:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Simplify
There are 2 separate distinct sections that list multiple spellings of the term noob and it's variants. Neither section particularly adds to the article, but if they need to be included then lets try making it one big section instead of 2.

title: Talk:Newbie/Archive 1


text:
Ultravox

Ultravox (earlier styled as Ultravox!) were a British new wave band, formed in London in April 1974 as Tiger Lily. Between 1980 and 1986, they scored seven Top Ten albums and seventeen Top 40 singles in the UK, the most successful of which was their 1981 hit "Vienna".

From 1974 until 1979, singer John Foxx was frontman and the main driving force behind Ultravox. Foxx left the band in March 1979 to embark on a solo career. Midge Ure officially took over as lead singer, guitarist and frontman on 1 November 1979 (despite writing and rehearsing with the band from April of that year) after he and keyboardist Billy Currie worked on the studio project Visage. Ure revitalised the band and steered it to commercial chart success lasting until 1987, at which time the group disbanded.

A new line-up, led by Currie, was formed in 1992, but achieved limited success with two albums failing to chart and one solitary single reaching 90 in the UK chart. The band's best-known line-up of Currie, Ure, bassist Chris Cross and drummer Warren Cann re-formed in 2008 and performed a series of shows in 2009 and 2010 before releasing a new studio album, Brill!ant, in May 2012 which reached 21 in the British Album Charts. In November 2013, Ultravox performed as special guests on a four-date UK arena tour with Simple Minds. These shows proved to be Ultravox's last, as in 2017 both Currie and Ure indicated that Ultravox had run its course.

Early years – Tiger Lily: 1974–1976
The band was formed in April 1974 on the initiative of vocalist and songwriter Dennis Leigh, a then Royal College of Art student, and was originally known as Tiger Lily. An initial but incomplete line-up comprised Leigh plus Chris Allen who was then billed as Chris St. John (bass guitar) and Stevie Shears (guitar), with Warren Cann (drums) and Billy Currie (violin) joining in May and October 1974 respectively. The group released one single in 1975, "Ain't Misbehavin'", a cover of the Fats Waller song, which featured in a soft porn film. Later, the band went through a series of name changes including The Zips, Fire of London, London Soundtrack, and The Damned, using this last name for a few weeks before discovering that the Damned had already taken it.

Ultravox!
On the strength of their live act, the band signed to Island Records in 1976. The group had still not finalised their band name, wanting to make a good and lasting choice. In October 1976, while working on the late stages of their debut album, the band conceived the name Ultravox! (the exclamation mark was a reference to krautrock band Neu!, produced by Conny Plank, who later produced three Ultravox albums). At the same time, Leigh chose John Foxx and Allen chose Chris Cross as their respective stage names. In February 1977, Island released their eponymous debut album, Ultravox!.

Like many other bands that formed Britain's punk and new wave movements, Ultravox! drew inspiration from the art-school side of glam rock. Musically, Ultravox were heavily influenced by Roxy Music, the New York Dolls, David Bowie and Kraftwerk. Their debut was co-produced by Steve Lillywhite and Brian Eno (who next co-wrote and performed with Bowie on Low). Ultravox! ' s sales were disappointing, and neither the album nor the associated single "Dangerous Rhythm" managed to enter the UK charts. Relations within the band were on an occasionally tenuous footing during this time as Foxx declared that he intended to live without emotions, a sentiment he wrote into the début album track "I Want to Be a Machine".

Ultravox returned later in 1977 with the punkier Ha!-Ha!-Ha!. Sales of both the album and its lead single, "ROckWrok", were poor, both failing to register on the UK charts. "ROckWrok" had a punk-lyric chorus, with the words "Come on, let's tangle in the dark/Fuck like a dog, bite like a shark". (Despite this, it got airplay on BBC Radio 1.) Although Ha!-Ha!-Ha! was dominated by guitars and electric violin, the final track, "Hiroshima Mon Amour", was a prototypical synthpop song. One of the first tracks by a British band to feature a drum machine (a Roland Rhythm 77 with preset patterns) and a tenor saxophone solo played by "cc" of the band Gloria Mundi. Hiroshima Mon Amour signalled a new direction for Ultravox. The energy, anger and popular appeal of punk was fading in 1978, and the more creative UK punk genre talent sought new directions—calling themselves British new wave instead of punk rock artists. "Hiroshima Mon Amour" remains a critics' and fans' favourite from the group's initial period. Ultravox! also performed it on The Old Grey Whistle Test later in 1978.

Systems of Romance and split with John Foxx
In early March 1978, Stevie Shears, whose style of guitar playing was considered a limiting factor, was sacked from the band after they toured England and joined Cowboys International in 1980. He was replaced by Robert Simon (ex-member of Ian North's Neo), who during his first days with the band changed his performance-name to Robin Simon. Some time in 1978, the group also dropped the exclamation mark, becoming simply "Ultravox". The new line-up performed live at the Reading Festival along with Radio Stars, Penetration, Sham 69, the Pirates and the Jam, playing early versions of "Slow Motion" and "Quiet Men" on 27 August 1978.

Their third album, 1978's Systems of Romance, was recorded with producer Conny Plank (the producer of the first four albums by German electronic outfit Kraftwerk) and engineer Dave Hutchins at Plank's Studio in rural Germany. Musically, the album was markedly different from Ultravox's earlier work, bringing synthesisers to the forefront of the group's sound. Frustrated by too many opinions of how the band should sound, Foxx decided to leave the band and pursue a purer electronic style already at the initial rehearsals for Systems of Romance, but had to await the band's commitments for that album.

Despite some positive reviews and initial sales of over 25 000 copies, Island dropped the band on 31 December 1978. Ultravox embarked on a self-financed US tour in early 1979 and, to their amazement, received an enthusiastic response by the American audience at several sold out venues. But after their final gig near San Francisco in March 1979, Foxx declared his intention to leave the band and pursue a solo career. He gave the remaining members the band name and returned to London. According to Warren Cann it was a mutual decision between the band and Foxx to part ways after repeated quarrels. Simon remained in the US and briefly joined The Futants, a punk band from New York. He later returned to England and teamed up with Howard Devoto to replace guitarist John McGeoch in the band Magazine. The remaining members made their way back to a Britain in the midst of the Winter of Discontent. Island dropped the three Ultravox albums from its catalogue, and released a compilation of highlights from the group's first three albums in 1980, called Three into One.

Foxx subsequently signed to Virgin Records and released his album Metamatic in January 1980. By this time, Billy Currie had been recruited by the rising star Gary Numan in 1979 to do a performance at The Old Grey Whistle Test show with his band Tubeway Army. Numan had been a fan of Ultravox and Currie was also asked to play on Numan's début solo album, The Pleasure Principle, and its subsequent tour. Warren Cann went to work for Zaine Griff, while Chris Cross did some shows with James Honeyman-Scott (of The Pretenders) and Barrie Masters (from Eddie and the Hot Rods).

Midge Ure years: 1979–1987
With the band seemingly over, Ultravox were then revitalised by Midge Ure, who joined the band as vocalist, guitarist and keyboardist. He had already achieved minor success with semi-glam outfit Slik and Glen Matlock's The Rich Kids, and in 1979, he was temporarily playing with hard rock band Thin Lizzy on their American tour, replacing Gary Moore.

Ure and Billy Currie had met while collaborating on Visage, a studio-based band fronted by New Romantic icon and nightclub impresario Steve Strange. Ure and Currie were part of the Visage ensemble on a part-time basis while simultaneously being in Ultravox. During Ure and Currie's tenure, Visage had released two successful albums and had a string of hit singles (the most notable being "Fade to Grey"), but Ure decided to leave in 1982 to concentrate solely on Ultravox. Currie remained with Visage for a while longer, but he too had left them by 1984.

Encouraged by Visage drummer and mutual friend Rusty Egan, Currie asked Ure to join Ultravox. The first material for a prospective new Ultravox record came together quickly and the group decided to tour the US again at the end of 1979. They did so in the hope of being picked up by an American label. Ure knew of Ultravox's past, being a fan of Systems to the point where the new four-piece outfit (Ultravox mk. III) played songs from that album with Ure singing Foxx's lyrics.

Most of the album that would become Vienna was ready to record by the time Ultravox signed a new record deal with Chrysalis Records. Vienna, heralded a major change of direction and would become their most successful to date, far surpassing any of the previous Ultravox (or Foxx) albums. As with Systems of Romance, it was produced by Conny Plank.

Released in July 1980, the Vienna album produced the band's first UK Top 40 hit with "Sleepwalk" reaching No. 29, while the album itself initially peaked at No. 14. A second single, "Passing Strangers", failed to reach the Top 40, only reaching No. 57, but the band achieved a substantial hit with the third single, the album's title track. Accompanied by a highly distinctive video (inspired by Carol Reed's 1949 film The Third Man), the single became Ultravox's biggest ever hit, released in January 1981 and peaking at Number 2 (kept off the top spot by John Lennon's "Woman" and then Joe Dolce's "Shaddap You Face"). On the strength of the single, the album then re-entered the chart and reached No. 3 in early 1981. A fourth single from the album, "All Stood Still", peaked at No. 8. in 1981, and "Slow Motion" from Systems of Romance was also re-issued, reaching No. 33 the same year.

This was soon followed by Rage in Eden (1981), with the band returning to Plank's studio in Cologne for what turned out to be a difficult recording session. Whereas the Vienna material had been performed live a great deal prior to a three-week recording process, Rage in Eden took over three months. The album featured a long track in three parts on the second side. The album peaked at No. 4 in the UK, while two singles from the album, "The Thin Wall" and "The Voice", both made the UK Top 20, reaching No. 14 and No. 16 respectively.

Ultravox teamed up with producer George Martin for 1982's Quartet, which peaked at No. 6 in the UK and contained four Top 20 hit singles; "Reap the Wild Wind" reaching No. 12 and "Hymn" No. 11 both in 1982, and "Visions in Blue" and in 1983 "We Came to Dance" charting at No. 15 and No. 18 respectively. It was their most successful album in the US, peaking at No. 61.

The band undertook a major world tour, the Monument Tour, which was recorded and released as a live LP and video in 1983, which also reached the UK top ten.

Ultravox then decided to produce their next album themselves. 1984's Lament continued the band's run of top ten albums and produced three top 40 hit singles, including the international hit "Dancing with Tears in My Eyes" (UK No. 3), "Lament" (No. 22) and "One Small Day" peaking at No. 27.

After the "Set Movements Tour" in 1984, a "greatest hits" compilation spanning the band's 1980s output was released entitled The Collection. It was preceded by a new single, "Love's Great Adventure", which enjoyed massive radio airplay that autumn and eventually peaked at No. 12 in the UK, accompanied by a popular Indiana Jones-style spoof video. The Collection went triple Platinum and reached No. 2 in the UK album chart, the band's highest ever peak.

In November 1984, Ure also co-wrote and produced the Band Aid single "Do They Know It's Christmas?". The four Ultravox-members took a long break from each other, but appeared at Live Aid the following year and played four of their hit singles ("Reap the Wild Wind", "Dancing with Tears in My Eyes", "One Small Day" and "Vienna"). Last time they were touring in 1984 they had twenty-two keyboards on stage, and the sound checks alone took five hours, so Ultravox actually chose the songs that they could perform with the least equipment, with no rehearsal and no sound check. With Ultravox being switched in the running order so that Princess Diana could see the Boomtown Rats before leaving Wembley, the start of the Ultravox set was lost to a poor hand-over from an over-running foreign link up. As the concert was never officially archived, this could not be restored to the partial record of the event available on the official DVD. Later in 1985, Ure scored a No. 1 solo hit with "If I Was" and his solo album The Gift reached No. 2 in the UK.

During the time Midge was away working with his solo album and tour, Cann, Currie and Cross recorded demos to a forthcoming album. They recorded the track "Ukraine" which is available on Currie's 1991 solo album Stand up and Walk.

Ure later said that when he came back they were all working in different directions. In a band meeting before the new recording began in 1986, Warren Cann was sacked from the band due to musical differences. Ure said 1986: "After the two year break the differences that might have been very small two years ago, had magnified during that time, we had grown apart. It seemed like we could not work with him."

Ultravox recorded the U-Vox album with Big Country's Mark Brzezicki on drums in Plank's studio in Germany. The U-Vox album, released in October 1986, was later described by Ure as "unfocused". Although it continued their string of top ten albums in the UK, its singles showed declining chart results: "Same Old Story" peaking at No. 31, and "All Fall Down" at No. 30 in 1986, with "All in One Day" reaching only No. 88 in 1987. In 1987, Ultravox decided not to continue after the U-Vox tour and split up.

Currie signed a deal with IRS Records and recorded a solo album. Cross retired from the music business to become a psychotherapist. Cann later moved to Los Angeles to work in the movie business. Currie and Robin Simon reunited in 1989 as the short-lived Humania, performing live shows, but never making a release until 2006, the album Sinews of the Soul.

Currie's own Ultravox in the Nineties: 1992–1996
Without any other original members, Currie reformed Ultravox again in 1992 with vocalist Tony Fenelle to record Revelation, and later Sam Blue replaced Fenelle in a new five-piece Ultravox line-up, lending his voice to another release, Ingenuity released November 1994. This line-up also released the live album Future Picture recorded in Italy 1993.

These albums had little commercial success and the band dissolved again in 1996. Currie said 2006 about the attempt to continue Ultravox: "It wasn't a good idea but, in retrospect, it's always easy to say that."

Reunion: 2008–2013

In September 2008, both Vienna and Rage in Eden were released in digitally remastered two-disc format with the second disc containing previously unreleased material.

On 2 October 2008 Midge Ure and Billy Currie met again and played an acoustic "Vienna" together, on Geoff Lloyd Show on Absolute Radio in Abbey Road Studios. After this they got an offer from Live Nation, who their former manager Chris O’Donnell was now working for.

On 6 November 2008 the official announcement came: Warren Cann, Chris Cross, Billy Currie and Midge Ure reformed Ultravox again, for a 15-date UK tour in April 2009, entitled "Return to Eden". This would be the first time the classic line-up of the band had performed together since Live Aid in 1985. The first show was played at Edinburgh Playhouse 10 April 2009.

On Jonathan Ross's show on BBC's Radio 2 on 21 February 2009, Ure discussed the tour, with all four members of the most successful incarnation of the band on board. He mentioned that this reunion was not planned in light of the previously mentioned events, but rather was spontaneous and happened very quickly with the band members talking and communicating online (using email and Skype). The interview did not reveal whether or not new material would be recorded as a result of the reunion tour. Speaking to the Sunday Mail, Ure stated that the reunion was only a one-off, and there would be no new material from the group. He said: "We're not trying to recapture our youth and won't be writing new songs or recording another album. This is about celebrating our music and our anniversary."

Quartet and Monument were released in February 2009, also in two-disc editions. The second disc in the Monument package is a DVD containing the concert video that was previously only available on VHS tape. The other Chrysalis-era releases were planned for similar future releases.

Since success from touring the UK they have extended the tour to Germany and Belgium. A live CD and DVD of Ultravox's sell-out Roundhouse show was released on 5 April 2010. The DVD features a documentary filmed on the build-up to and during the reunion tour, parts of it filmed by Midge Ure.

Ultravox returned to performing live with their Return to Eden II tour in Europe during 2010. In August they played four shows in Sweden together with Howard Jones and Alphaville. It was on this tour the band members decided that they should record some new material again.

On 20 January 2011, via their official website, Ultravox.org.uk, the band announced that a new studio album was nearing completion. In 2011 Ultravox released a fan store exclusive EP called Moments from Eden, featured four new live tracks recorded 23 April 2010 at Grosse Freiheit, Hamburg, and 24 April 2010 at Admiralspalast, Berlin.

Ultravox's 11th studio album, Brill!ant, was released on 28 May 2012. Following this release the band embarked on the 'Brilliant Tour' performing shows across the UK and Europe in late 2012.

On 30 November 2013, Ultravox performed their last show at The O2 Arena in London, as special guests on a four date UK arena tour with Simple Minds.

On 4 January 2017, Billy Currie announced on his official website that he had decided that his time as a member of Ultravox had come to an end after 43 years. In December 2017 Midge Ure revealed in an interview with the Daily Express that a further reformation by the band was unlikely.

Bassist Chris Cross died on 25 March 2024; His death was confirmed by Midge Ure on 1 April.

Legacy
Gary Numan has stated that the original 1970s-era Ultravox was the most important influence on his music. Ultravox was also a major influence on early Simple Minds and Duran Duran.

Along with acts like Visage and Gary Numan, Ultravox was one of the early influences on techno. In his book Energy Flash, Simon Reynolds quotes Adam Lee Miller of Adult: "I always get a kick when people say the first 'techno' record was Cybotron's 'Alleys of Your Mind'... To me, it was just a new wave record. It sounds particularly close to 'Mr X' by Ultravox."

Studio albums

 * Ultravox! (1977)
 * Ha!-Ha!-Ha! (1977)
 * Systems of Romance (1978)
 * Vienna (1980)
 * Rage in Eden (1981)
 * Quartet (1982)
 * Lament (1984)
 * U-Vox (1986)
 * Revelation (1993)
 * Ingenuity (1994)
 * Brill!ant (2012)

Band members

 * Classic line-up
 * Chris Cross – bass, synthesisers, backing vocals (1974–1987, 2008–2013; died 2024)
 * Warren Cann – drums, electronic percussion, drum programming, synthesizers, backing and occasional lead vocals (1974–1986, 2008–2013)
 * Billy Currie – synthesisers, keyboards, violin, viola (1974–1987, 1992–1996, 2008–2013)
 * Midge Ure – lead vocals, guitars, synthesisers (1979–1987, 2008–2013)

 * Former members
 * John Foxx – lead vocals (1974–1979)
 * Stevie Shears – guitar (1974–1978)
 * Robin Simon – guitar, backing vocals (1978–1979)
 * Tony Fenelle – lead vocals, guitar (1992–1993)
 * Sam Blue – lead vocals (1994–1996)
 * Vinny Burns – guitar (1994–1996)
 * Tony Holmes – drums, percussion (1994–1996)
 * Gary Williams – bass (1994–1996)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ultravox


text:
PDC

PDC may refer to:

Chemistry, biology and medicine

 * Phosducin, a human protein and gene in the retina
 * Pyridinium dichromate (Cornforth reagent), a chromium-based oxidant
 * Pyruvate dehydrogenase complex, an enzyme complex
 * Plasmacytoid dendritic cell

Computing

 * Peripheral DMA controller
 * Personal decompression computer, for scuba divers
 * Personal Digital Cellular, a Japanese 2G mobile phone standard
 * Primary Domain Controller
 * Professional Developers Conference, by Microsoft
 * Programme Delivery Control, a teletext standard

Other uses in science and technology

 * Power distribution center, electrical equipment
 * Pulsed DC, type of electric current
 * Pyroclastic density current or pyroclastic flow of a volcano

Politics and government

 * Centrist Democratic Party (Rwanda)
 * Christian Democratic People's Party of Switzerland
 * Partido Demócrata Cristiano (disambiguation), several parties in Central & South America
 * Christian Democratic Party (Brazil) (Partido Democrata Cristão)
 * Catalan European Democratic Party
 * Portland Development Commission, later Prosper Portland, Oregon, US
 * Washington State Public Disclosure Commission, US
 * Former Constitutional Democratic Party, Italy
 * Parlementair Documentatie Centrum (Parliamentary Documentation Centre), (Netherlands), an institute that documents Dutch parliamentary history

Organizations

 * PDC (gang), later rap group, London, UK
 * Pacific Disaster Center, disaster preparedness institute based in Hawaii
 * Partisan Defense Committee, a Trotskyist legal defense organization
 * Phi Delta Chi, pharmaceutical fraternity at the University of Michigan
 * Philosophy Documentation Center, a publisher
 * Producers Distributing Corporation, 1920s US film company
 * Professional Darts Corporation, operates darts competitions
 * Publications Distribution Cooperative

Other uses

 * Pennsylvania Dutch language (ISO 639-3 language code)
 * Pocket Dream Console, a game console
 * Permaculture Design Certificate course on sustainable systems by Geoff Lawton

title: PDC


text:
DKK

DKK may refer to:

 * Danish krone, by ISO 4217 currency code
 * Deutsches Klima-Konsortium, see German Climate Consortium
 * Dickkopf, a gene and protein family with roles in embryonic development in animals
 * Dil Kya Kare, a 1999 Hindi film
 * Dakka language of Sulawesi, Indonesia (ISO code: dkk)
 * Chautauqua County/Dunkirk Airport, New York State (IATA code: DKK)

title: DKK


text:
User:FireflyAngel

My Sites

 * Beautiful Soul (Sharon Tate)
 * http://sharontate.cabspace.com

title: User:FireflyAngel


text:
Salammoniac

Salammoniac, also sal ammoniac or salmiac, is a rare naturally occurring mineral composed of ammonium chloride, NH4Cl. It forms colorless, white, or yellow-brown crystals in the isometric-hexoctahedral class. It has very poor cleavage and is brittle to conchoidal fracture. It is quite soft, with a Mohs hardness of 1.5 to 2, and it has a low specific gravity of 1.5. It is water-soluble. Salammoniac is also the archaic name for the chemical compound ammonium chloride.

History
Pliny, in Book XXXI of his Natural History, refers to a salt produced in the Roman province of Cyrenaica named hammoniacum, so called because of its proximity to the nearby Temple of Jupiter Amun (Greek Ἄμμων Ammon). However, the description Pliny gives of the salt does not conform to the properties of ammonium chloride. According to Herbert Hoover's commentary in his English translation of Georgius Agricola's De re metallica, it is likely to have been common sea salt. In any case, that salt ultimately gave ammonia and ammonium compounds their name.

The first attested reference to sal ammoniac as ammonium chloride is in the Pseudo-Geber work De inventione veritatis, where a preparation of sal ammoniac is given in the chapter De Salis armoniaci præparatione, salis armoniaci being a common name in the Middle Ages for sal ammoniac.

It typically forms as encrustations formed by sublimation around volcanic vents and is found around volcanic fumaroles, guano deposits and burning coal seams. Associated minerals include sodium alum, native sulfur and other fumarole minerals. Notable occurrences include Tajikistan; Mount Vesuvius, Italy; and Parícutin, Michoacan, Mexico.

Uses
It is commonly used to clean the soldering iron in the soldering of stained-glass windows.

Metal refining
In jewellery-making and the refining of precious metals, potassium carbonate is added to gold and silver in a borax-coated crucible to purify iron or steel filings that may have contaminated the scrap. It is then air-cooled and remelted with a one-to-one mixture of powdered charcoal and sal ammoniac to yield a sturdy ingot of the respective metal or alloy in the case of sterling silver (7.5% copper) or karated gold.

Food
Salammoniac has also been used in the past in bakery products to give cookies or biscuits their crisp texture, but the application of food grade baking ammonia (ammonium carbonate or (NH4)2CO3) is generally being substituted with the creation of modern baking powder or baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).

Salammoniac is used in salmiac liquorice, for instance salty liquorice or salmiak pastilles.

Dyeing
In addition, the mineral or, better, its synthetic counterpart, also serves for the production of cooling baths as well as in dyeing and leather tanning.

Salammoniac (as ammonium chloride) was the electrolyte in Leclanché cells, a forerunner of the dry battery; a carbon rod and a zinc rod or cylinder formed the electrodes.

Medicine
It was also brought into pharmacopeias by Islamic physicians for medicinal purposes.

In the 14th-century "The Canon's Yeoman's Tale" one of Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales, an alchemist purports to use sal armonyak as smelling salts.

title: Salammoniac