text:
Talk:Anthony Eden

Disambig
this should be a separate entry with a link from Eden disambiguation:

Anthony Eden (1976 - ) is a Java software developer developing numerous open source projects such as JPublish, FormProc, and DataBind. CTO of Signature Domains, Inc. in Miami, FL.

Amphetamines
Source for the amphetamines stuff? john 18:18, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I beleive the amphetamines thing is true to some extent, however!, and it's a BIG however, this needs a complete rewrite. The article discusses Suez in the context of amphetamines rather than the other way round. Mintguy (T) 00:52, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Sir Anthony Eden?
How come he was Sir Anthony Eden; was he knighted if when and which order, or was he a baronet, and then when did his father die?

He was created a Knight of the Garter in 1954, hence the "KG" after his name. Proteus (Talk) 11:01, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * He wasn't actually a baronet, despite Rab Butler's famous witticism at his expense. The title passed to his surviving older brother Tim.Paulturtle (talk) 21:50, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

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Wikipedia pro-western bias: A. E. drug abuse cover-up
The Eden was a long-time drug abuser, who dosed himself with meth-amphetamines ever since the early 1930s, following an accident. There was an one-hour british TV documentary on Discovery History channel, where they researched the issue thoroughly and gave proof that the substance made him paranoid and the 1956 Suez War he made because he had visions of Nasser morphing into Hitler.

Other famous meth abuser was JFK who also started to take it due to injury (of the back and spine) and it made him reckless and he almost started a nuclear war where he spoke nonsense about sausages in a Berliner platz. Many western politicians are either drunkards or drug abusers, morphine and amphetamines are common even these days. Paranoids lead many countries and ordinary citizens don't even know. Dubya is heavily back to whiskey now, because of Iraq fiasco and public opinion loss. Laura complained about this to friends and National Enquirer journalists taped that. 195.70.48.242 15:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

 * has Bill Deedes saying "I was close enough to the Suez scene to know that he was relying heavily on prescribed amphetamine and barbiturate. His nervous system had been damaged by the gall bladder operation and the steps that had to be taken to put it right. He suffered sleepless nights and fevers." --Henrygb 14:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I didn't like the wording of the Suez Invasion. Just the fact that the mention of Eden's motives, i.e. Nasser supposedly being like Mussolini and being bent on invading land supposedly belonging to other countries sounded a bit biased. So I added the fact that the canal itself has always been on Egyptian soil, was built by Egyptian slave labour and that nationalization met with popular support amongst the Egyptian people. (Canadianpunk77 01:54, 13 October 2007 (UTC)).

Eden's operation
According to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5193202.stm), Eden's gall bladder operation was a complete failure - apparently the knife "slipped", causing serious damage to his bile duct. Hence the continued need to use pain killers. Unfortunately he also took other drugs to counter the pain killers. Some belived that his dependance on drugs affected his judgement during the Suez Crisis.

 * In light of the above (yours and others), should the article read that the Suez crisis led to the breakdown in Eden's health? I believe in Lucas' "The Lion's Last Roar", we see commentary from his physician corraborating the above (re: drugs) as well as notes on Eden's health contributing to the fateful decision, in what Lucas described as relenting to French pressure due to exhaustion. --68.50.30.182 23:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

It could probably be amended to say that it certainly didn't help...

A learned article has been published in the United States about Eden's medical problems, evidently with the support of his widow, now in her late 80s: John W. Braasch, Anthony Eden’s (Lord Avon) Biliary Tract Saga: Ann Surg. 2003 November; 238(5): 772–775; http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1356158

The version of the original operation that I heard from a surgeon who was a contemporary of the first surgeon was: They cystic duct was clamped with a Mayo clamp. This was a standard method at the time. A ligature was passed around the clamp and tied. The clamp had been placed too close to the common bile duct, an by tying it, the bile duct was damaged, later becoming stenosed. (Today, in an open operation, the cystic duct would be exposed, a Lahey or similar clamp passed under it, and a suture introduced into the clamp, pulled around the cystic duct and then tied.) I don't know if the cystic duct was divided with scissors or a scalpel.

In any event, Eden sustained an injury which should not have happened, for a biliary stricture is a problem which is very difficult to fix. Eden clearly suffered bouts of Charcot's fever, ascending cholangitis, with the triad of abdominal pain, jaundice and fever. It's unsurprising that his judgement was impaired.

The Lahey clinic developed very considerable expertise in the repair of biliary strictures; the world leader in this field.

I cannot say if my source (Sir Ian Fraser) had the correct facts; it was related as an anecdote.

Korhomme (talk) 10:00, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Amphetamines, "speed"
"Eden was prescribed the wonder drug of the 1950s - Benzedrine. Regarded by doctors in the 1950s as a harmless stimulant, it belongs to the family of drugs called amphetamines – the illegal drug we now call speed." -- Deleted bolded as misleading. Amphetamines are not now illegal per se. Per Speed, that term can refer to "amphetamines, methamphetamine, and other psychostimulant drugs". -- Writtenonsand (talk) 22:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The Eden Trust
I was wondering of someone could tell me if the Eden Trust, a registered UK charity and whole owner of the Eden Project in Cornwall, was founded by or named after Sir Anthony Eden, or someone else in his immediate family. --Mark2196 (talk) 00:21, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Most unlikely. Despite Eden's well documented love of gardens and plants, the Eden project is surely a reference to the biblical Garden of Eden. IXIA (talk) 05:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

External links don't work
Somebody ought to go over the external links. Serveral of them don't work any more. --Maxl (talk) 11:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Son's death
I don't feel strongly enough to change this - but I would say we die we die rather than decease. Especially in war. And what does Eden "accepting" his son's death mean? Had he a choice? Rogersansom (talk) 11:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't have an Eden biog to hand to check (most of my library is boxed up after a series of house moves) but my recollection is that his son was MIA and his death was never proven. Lot of parents harbour false hopes under such circumstances.Paulturtle (talk) 03:29, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

The release of war criminals
The lengthy coverage of this controversial topic is perhaps disproportionate. IXIA (talk) 05:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

... and more generally
I wonder whether this article draws a bit too heavily on Dutton who is, on the whole, less sympathetic to Eden than, say Rhodes James or Thorpe. LymeRegis (talk) 17:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Libya
I'm not sure the current war in Libya is really relevant to Eden; the 2003 Iraq war where Britain and the US decided to go it alone without the backing of the UN might be a better comparison. (HantersSpade (talk) 10:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC))

But maybe the point is that, with Libya, Britain and France did seek a UN mandate and ensured that America was, broadly speaking, on board, despite apparent initial misgivings - i.e. pretty much the opposite of Suez. I understand the UN point, but perhaps the main one, in terms of realpolitik was the stance of the USA in all three instances. LymeRegis (talk) 06:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Languages
On one point, he learned French and German as a child and studied Persian with Arabic at Oxford, but do we have a source on his Russian? https://archive.org/details/siranthonyedenth012634mbp suggests on page 23 that he didn't learn it. Is it a matter of what we mean by "learn" and "speak"? Prometheus-1234 (talk) 12:00, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

 * He needed a translator for his meeting with Stalin in 1935 (although Stalin spoke with a strong Georgian accent which may have made him hard to follow). He had a bash at studying Russian in the trenches (at that point he was toying with studying Slavonic languages) with a view to becoming a diplomat, but like many before and after him gave it up as he felt he wasn't making enough progress. David Carlton says he learned Turkish at Oxford, but I'm not sure this is true - most books say it was Persian and Arabic.Paulturtle (talk) 22:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Eden knew Turkish, or at least claimed to in Parliament, when he said he read Turkish newspapers in an exchange on Suez. This is my memory of Hansard, I can't give the reference. Might be worth mentioning that ha got first-class honours at Oxford - Can't give a reference for this either, but I think it is true. Seadowns (talk) 13:19, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

 * His dabbling with Turkish, and his double first in Persian and Arabic, are already in the article.Paulturtle (talk) 12:52, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Spanish Civil War
There is lamentably brief and inadequate coverage of his failure to support the democratically elected Spanish government against the fascist coup of Franco. This "neutral" stance contributed in no small way, along with appeasement, to encouraging fascist aggression which precipitated WW2. I am no historian so i suggest someone with expertise write a para on this important subject.Richwil (talk) 14:22, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

 * The western powers had an agreement to keep out, as they did not want a repetition of July 1914.Paulturtle (talk) 16:50, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

 * On a related note, didn't A.J.P. Taylor once write apropos of Eden's memoirs that "he didn't "Face the Dictators", he pulled faces at them". Might make a nice addition if somebody can remember when and where.Paulturtle (talk) 03:39, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Standing Ovation
According to William Manchester, in 1933 he made "a speech that brought him a standing ovation in the House".

Applause is frowned upon in the House of Commons, although there have been a few occasions of it in modern years, e.g. Tony Blair was applauded by his newly-elected MPs in 1997. The normal procedure is a rumble of "hear, hear"s, or in extreme cases shouts of approval and waving of order papers. I suspect it may have been the latter. I don't have copy of Manchester (an entertaining read but hardly the greatest of historians) to hand to check what he actually wrote. Is this mentioned in the reputable biographies (Carlton, Rhodes James, Dutton, Thorpe)?Paulturtle (talk) 20:10, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Right, I've found a mention of this in David Dutton (Thorpe doesn't appear to mention it) and sharpened up the section a bit. No mention of a "standing ovation" either in Dutton or in the online Hansard record. Probably no need to be too hard on Eden or the government for this - Hitler had only just come to power and lots of people at the time thought the French were bullies (e.g. marching into the Ruhr in 1923) and that the Versailles Treaty had been unfair and unnecessarily humiliating to Germany, which was why there wasn't much complaint later in the year when Hitler repudiated it - indeed there wasn't really much of a consensus that Hitler needed to be "stood up to" until he marched into Prague in March 1939, at which point it was clear that "further negotiation was pointless" as an old man said to me a year or two ago.Paulturtle (talk) 13:29, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Resignation
If somebody has the books to hand there ought to be something about the strong hints which the US Administration are now known to have dropped that they wanted him out as Prime Minister after Suez. My Eden biographies are in storage at the moment so I can't do it myself.Paulturtle (talk) 12:40, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The main reason was ill health - Eden was told that if he continued as Prime Minister he would not live for more than two years. (LanceCaldwell (talk) 18:37, 26 July 2015 (UTC))
 * Thats a long standing text you just removed, if it was on grounds of ill-health, you'll of course be able to provide a cite for that. Most of the books I've read indicate it was an excuse.  WCM email 19:34, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Eden's doctors said in January 1957 that his physical and mental health was too bad for him to continue as Prime Minister. He had major surgery in April 1957 which would have ended his premiership even without the Suez Crisis. These "hints" from the US administration are not new revelations - it was widely reported at the time that the Americans would be unwilling to take a British government led by Eden into their confidence again. (LanceCaldwell (talk) 19:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC))
 * ill health was certainly a factor--but of course his political health was also bad. 1) calls the reason a "mystery."  2) D R Thorpe emphasizes his political collapse. He adds: ""On 5 January, after receiving medical advice that allowed no other choice" Eden told said he was resigning. 2a) Heppell (2007) says "ill-health and the legacy of the Suez crisis caused Eden to resign".  3) John Plowright (2006) p 90 says "Ill health forced Eden to resign."  4) however Charles Hauss - 2014 says: "Eden's actions had cost him the confidence of his own party. Sensing that, he resigned the following year, citing his declining health. In fact, he did not resign because of his health-he lived until 1977."  5) Robert Eccleshall and Graham S. Walker - 1998 say: "there is still some mystery over Eden's decision to resign on 9 January 1957. His health had deteriorated and...he had decided that he was unfit to continue. His decision may also have been influenced by...." Rjensen (talk) 19:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * If Eden had not been seriously ill he would have remained Prime Minister. The Americans tried to force out Harold Wilson due to his opposition to the Vietnam War, yet he remained in office until 1976. (LanceCaldwell (talk) 20:24, 26 July 2015 (UTC))
 * He did indeed, but Wilson's situation was different. Eden had destroyed his credibility by invading another country with questionable legal authority and strong suspicions (later proven to be correct) that he was doing so in secret collusion with other powers, only then to pull out. The leading members of his Cabinet were united in trying to push him out (if Butler had realised that the premiership was not simply going to fall into his lap he might have acted differently, one supposes - he was equally out of touch in other ways and was genuinely shocked when the Cabinet chose Macmillan instead). Eden had been subject to attack in the Tory press throughout his premiership and his political position was untenable by the time he came back from Jamaica. I seem to remember even Rhodes James' hagiography mentioning his frosty reception in the Commons. Had he been in better health he might have tried to cling on and there might have been an ugly scene - power is a drug and Prime Ministers are notorious for coming out with reasons for carrying on, as Churchill had done for most of his early 1950s premiership. But then again, had he had the backing of his Cabinet he might have ignored the doctors - he was not, after all, any sicker than he had been in 1956. And as far as the other matter which was deleted from the introduction goes, Eden's premiership - less than two years - was the second-briefest since 1945 and one of the briefest of the twentieth century.Paulturtle (talk) 21:30, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Series of blunders?
It is strange to suggest that Eden made a "series of blunders". Had he not taken action against Nasser then he would have been forced out anyway by his own MPs. (Gafbns (talk) 14:09, 29 July 2015 (UTC))

 * He was certainly much criticised throughout the 1950s by the Tory right and their press supporters, as an appeaser (negotiating with the North Vietnamese, pulling out of the Suez Base in 1954 etc), not big enough to fill Churchill's shoes etc. That was a factor in his desire to pursue a hawkish policy. However, the sentence refers to the views of historians and his mishandling of the Americans/failure to realise that Britain could no longer go it alone etc.Paulturtle (talk) 14:17, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Britain was not alone in the Suez Crisis, it could only act with the support of France and Israel. The Suez Canal Base Agreement happened before Eden became Prime Minister. The introduction should be reworded as he took a gamble as he had in Iran in 1953, only it didn't work out in 1956. In any case it is questionable whether the UK could not take action in foreign policy - the Americans did not support a military solution to the Falklands Crisis until Argentina rejected their offer of peace talks. (Gafbns (talk) 14:24, 29 July 2015 (UTC))

 * Very well then, his failure to realise that Britain and France could not act without at least the acquiescence of the US Administration. As Foreign Secretary Eden was the main mover in pulling out of the Suez Base in 1954 - the "Suez Group" of Tory backbenchers were furious, as (privately) was Churchill. Not sure what the relevance of Iran in 1953 is - if you mean the coup to overthrow Mossadeq, the CIA were the main movers in that one. Thatcher and one or two others were very active in demanding US backing in 1982 - perhaps if she'd been around to give a handbagging to John Foster Dulles the way she famously did to Al Haig, things might have been different; as it was Dulles was unimpressed by Eden's hazy grasp of the 1936 Treaty about the Suez Canal which Eden had himself helped to negotiate. Are you the same person who was involved in the discussion above?Paulturtle (talk) 15:13, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The 1936 treaty was carried out in full 18 years before Suez. No I'm not. I'm surprised Eden is blamed for Churchill's mistakes. (Gafbns (talk) 16:51, 29 July 2015 (UTC))

Succession to Eden
Both of the books I've ploughed through so far - Rothwell and Rhodes James which is so obviously a hagiography that I wouldn't dream of using uncorroborated on anything other than obvious points of fact - say that Eden was not asked for his advice as to his successor (not that he was in any way entitled to be asked, as it related to the Queen's role of Head of State rather than her purely nominal role as Head of Government). I seem to recall Anthony Howard's biog of Butler mentioning that he too was scathing about the Queen afterwards, so perhaps she gave him the nod to push Eden out and then - entirely correctly - appointed Macmillan instead.

After reading about this stuff for about 25 years I seem to recall that some books say that this is an error and Eden was asked. So I'm happy to be corrected on this point of detail if somebody has a book which says different. I haven't had a chance to check Carlton, Dutton or Thorpe yet.Paulturtle (talk) 22:19, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Howard was wrong about many things. (86.133.85.45 (talk) 23:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC))

He may or may not have been, but on this specific matter Eden later wrote a memo (or 2, I forget), a decade or more later, stating that he had indeed been asked, contrary to incorrect reports at the time, that he declined to disclose his advice, but that events had turned out in accordance with his advice. Whatever that means. Eden had no love for either man. Clarissa did, however, commiserate with Butler for having been passed over. I have a great many notes on Eden, but don't really have time for article-writing at the moment.Paulturtle (talk) 03:01, 27 March 2016 (UTC) And as Michael Jago points out in his recent biography of Rab Butler, whatever advice Eden gave, he cannot (assuming he was later telling the truth) have endorsed Butler as his successor. He may have endorsed Macmillan, or he may have advised the Queen to have a straw poll taken of the Cabinet (as actually happened), or some other logical possibility.Paulturtle (talk) 21:00, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:58, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Mmayers, whoever he may be, was being a little obtuse. Poorly-informed people often "wrongly" suppose things which are clearly false, especially when such factoids serve to promote their political world view. Julian Critchley, in his 1987 biography of Michael Heseltine, makes that incorrect claim about Eden (writing after Westland, he was making the point that a politician can cement his reputation as an A-Lister by a dramatic resignation on a "matter of principle"). I have a page number kicking around somewhere, but as no drive-by nuisance has seen fit to tag the statement I'm not going to look for it just yet unless I have to.Paulturtle (talk) 03:25, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Resignation
The real reason Eden resigned was because the Americans refused to work with a British government led by him. (81.132.49.84 (talk) 12:05, 16 June 2016 (UTC))
 * there were multiple reasons. His doctors said the job was literally killing him. He had failed badly in 1956 and lost his aura of competence.  He had lied to Parliament (saying he did not know Isreal's plans). The Americans were angry but did not make demands for his removal. Rjensen (talk) 12:12, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The Eisenhower administration made clear it was not prepared to work with Eden. This is covered in detail in "1956: The Year That Changed Britain" by Francis Beckett and Tony Russell. (81.132.49.84 (talk) 12:16, 16 June 2016 (UTC))
 * no it is not covered in detail. they make that claim by citing Pat Buchanan, an american politician who has written very poor histories. None of the biographers of Eisenhower make that assertion.  Eden told Mollet that it was false ("no doubt at all that the friendship between us all is restored and even strengthened"). Ike wrote Eden, I "assure You that my admiration and affection for you have never diminished; I'm truly sorry that you had to quit the office"...That's much too strong language if Ike had forced him out of office. Rjensen (talk) 12:55, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It was well known at the time that the US government would not be prepared to take any government led by Eden into its confidence. Eisenhower actually told a British official he blamed the Suez operation for the West's inability to respond to the Soviet invasion of Hungary. (81.132.49.84 (talk) 13:28, 16 June 2016 (UTC))
 * OK, source please. Other than that, we don't know what may have been said in private, but history ultimately has to be based on what the surviving evidence says. Conversely there is some (admittedly modest) evidence that Butler, who assumed that the succession was going to drop into his lap, may have colluded with Eden's doctors to nudge him out (which in turn may be why Butler didn't notice Macmillan beavering away with Cabinet Ministers and sucking up to the Americans to steal the succession). I wrote up most of this stuff last autumn. But I'm afraid this just looks like tedious trolling by somebody with no edit history, about topics which have been subject to this kind of nonsense before. Notwithstanding his half-hearted toying with the idea of a return to Parliament in 1960, Eden kept out of the public eye after his resignation to a degree which was unusual at the time, especially for a man who had been one of the dominant politicians of his generation, and clearly, the effect of drug use (drugs which he had legitimately been told by his doctors to take, as opposed to snorting coke) on his temper and judgement is notable enough for the introduction as it has been much discussed over the years.Paulturtle (talk) 13:40, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Chamberlain also kept out of the public eye after he resigned. (81.132.49.84 (talk) 13:53, 16 June 2016 (UTC))
 * Chamberlain was a leading member of Churchill's War Cabinet, and still leader of the Conservative Party, until his final weeks when he was dying of cancer.Paulturtle (talk) 14:30, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Churchill rarely appeared in public or attended parliament after he resigned in 1955. (81.132.49.84 (talk) 15:24, 16 June 2016 (UTC))
 * Again, nonsense. Quite apart from the fact he was already in his eighties, Churchill appeared in public a fair bit in the late 1950s and made quite a few speeches; the last which he helped to write himself was as late as 1959. Whatever one thinks of the man, he was a revered world statesman whose comings and goings were usually newsworthy. You are right that he seldom attended Parliament, especially after 1959 when he was sinking into decrepitude, but he was still an MP until 1964 with letters dealing with constituency business being sent out in his name, although a few years before that his secretary Anthony Montagu Browne had asked that Tory MPs stop writing to him and asking his opinion about things, as he was no longer capable of "forming considered opinions" or of "marshalling arguments". This is becoming very tedious.Paulturtle (talk) 15:41, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I've just received an email from Lady Avon. She says Anthony decided to set a new trend for his successors by not taking too much part in politics as Harold was just as involved in the secret Suez planning as he was, and also because times had clearly changed in the post-war world. (81.132.49.84 (talk) 16:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC))
 * Deeply fascinating. Perhaps you can arrange to have your e-mail published in a reputable history book so we can cite it. However, since you now seem to agree that Eden was setting a new precedent by playing a reduced role in public life, which is what the article already says, there seems little purpose in any further discussion.Paulturtle (talk) 17:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The point is he did still play a role in politics behind the scenes, and the fact that he did not regularly appear in public was not just due to Suez as the article previously implied. Did you know he considered revealing the Iranian coup after the Americans forced him to order a ceasefire? (81.132.49.84 (talk) 17:02, 16 June 2016 (UTC))

Style over substance
'Born in the year of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, he thus died in the year of Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee.' This sentence is essentially drivel, style over substance. It has no meaning, since neither royal anniversary is connected with his birth or death. You may as well say, 'Born in the year that Aston Villa won the FA Cup, he thus died in the year they won the League Cup.' This is rather better, in fact, since Eden was often seen down the Villa. --OhNoPeedyPeebles (talk) 09:00, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Then take it up with his biographers, who draw attention to the coincidence. The point is that his life coincides more or less exactly with the Decline and Fall of the British Empire. As does Churchill's active career, incidentally. That doesn't make it "essentially drivel", and whilst he pursued a career which was devoted to Britain's role in the world he never had anything to do with the management of any football team. I wish this article didn't attract so many silly edits.Paulturtle (talk) 20:49, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

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Died of AIDS?
This article says he died of aids. Where on earth is that from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.2.218.131 (talk) 03:16, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

 * That was his younger (and only surviving) son.Paulturtle (talk) 04:21, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Military rank
''He was demobilised on 13 June 1919. He retained the rank of captain.''
 * I thought it was only majors and above who could use honorific rank. Under what arrangement could he retain the rank of captain in civilian life? Valetude (talk) 13:20, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I've no idea, but that's what the source says. He was still "on the books", was recalled to service for the general-strike-that-almost-was in Spring 1921 (part of the fun and educative value of biography as an art form is how famous people, like anybody's else's granddad, are crowd extras in the events of their youth), and was in the TA until 1923. I think he's even in uniform in one of his early election posters. Eden called himself "captain" in the 1920s, as did Harold Macmillan. It was perfectly common at the time - it was not unheard of for men to call themselves "Lieutenant" or "Pilot Officer". After WW2 it became frowned-upon for temporary officers to try to use their rank - Robert Maxwell was much sniggered at for insisting on being called "captain".Paulturtle (talk) 00:55, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

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MP resignation date
Conflict of information. The sidebar lists his MP resignation date as in January 1957 (same as his PM resignation date) but in the text it lists it as March 1957 (unlikely given the by-election was the 7th of March which would be too short a time in between). Anyone have confirmation?14.38.64.126 (talk) 15:56, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed.Paulturtle (talk) 21:38, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Eton
Why do we put Eton in the infobox, but not put it for other Prime Ministers who have graduated from it? --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 09:14, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:13, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Clarissa Anthony Eden.jpg

Some probably repetitive content in the same section
In the Section of Foreign Affairs Minister, 1931–1935, there are two mentions of Eden's meeting with Hitler in 1935. The first one was added by me, from Mitrokhin archive. The second was added by someone else and the source is Litvinov biograhy. Although written separtely and without other sources for now, I doubt the two mentions are actually about the same meeting. If so, the two parts should be merged.--Aronlee90 (talk) 07:54, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

"The famous Grey family of Northumberland (see below)" - something missing or error?
In the family section it says that "Eden's mother, Sybil Frances Grey, was a member of the famous Grey family of Northumberland (see below)". However there is nothing later in the article about the Grey family or their connection to Eden. I am not sure if something has been edited out or if someone intended to add something (possibly relating to Eden being a distant relation of his erstwhile colleague and fellow foreign Secretary Lord Halifax and the earlier holder of that office Sir Edward Grey via this familial connection). Indeed it is a bit odd that Halifax is not mentioned significantly in the article. However as it stands I am minded to remove the see below as it does not seem to relate to any current content, and as such is not of aid to readers of this article. Dunarc (talk) 21:28, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. There is no "below" and I've removed it. No Great Shaker (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this prompt action. I think it is the right call and if anyone ever has something relevant to add about Eden's relationship to the Grey family this can always be revisited. Dunarc (talk) 21:53, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I dare say somebody deleted a chunk of stuff. I haven't come across anything to suggest that Eden had any dealings with the Grey family in later life, or that this affected his dealings with Halifax. His father believed (or affected to believe) that he resembled his mother's family rather than his alleged natural father (a bit like a certain Royal Prince nowadays, I might add if I were a cheeky person). The reason there isn't much about the 1930s is because I was working on it in the autumn of 2015, using Dutton (1997), the most serious scholarly biography, for the period after 1931 (Rhodes James and Thorpe are both good up to 1931 but thin and hagiographic on the 1930s) but it came to a grinding halt when somebody else borrowed the library copy I was using, and by the time I'd bought another copy I'd kind of lost interest a bit. One day I may return to it. I'm not stopping anybody else posting stuff.Paulturtle (talk) 20:47, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Deputy Prime Minister
I wanted to raise a discussion point as to whether Eden actually was Deputy Prime Minister. Britannica states as such and Hansard seems to suggest the same (but that could be in an unofficial sense, I suppose).

However, Rodney Brazier in his new book, 'Choosing a Prime Minister: The Transfer of Power in Britain', on pages 72 and 77, states that Eden never officially was Deputy Prime Minister, because of the King's objection to the office. Does anybody else have any other sources on or thoughts about this? I don't have a copy of Eden's autobiography, but could that shed some light? FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

 * In addition, neither the gov.uk website nor the BBC history website mention that Eden was Deputy Prime Minister. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:19, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

 * See Evelyn Shuckburgh's diaries ("Descent To Suez", pp25-6) 27 Oct 1951. He walked in on Eden having a heated debate on the phone with Cabinet Secretary Norman Brook and Alan Lascelles (King's Private Secretary). Eden wanted the title to give him authority over colleagues, and pointed out that Attlee had had it during the war and Morrison after the war. The civil servants were telling him it had no constitutional significance, and was a breach of the King's Prerogative to ask anybody he liked to form a government when the job of PM fell vacant. ES assumed Eden was on the blower to Churchill, but Churchill at this point came on (?does this mean he was in conference with those other two gents?) and said that Eden could have the title after all. There was then a lot of "thank you dear" (Eden used to call other men "dear" and "my dear", for reasons best known to himself). This constitutional titbit is apparently mentioned in John Wheeler-Bennett's 1958 life of King George VI.Paulturtle (talk) 01:30, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Churchill was appointed PM on the evening of 26 Oct, so 27 Oct would have been when he was making the senior Cabinet appointments. Churchill's most detailed biographer Martin Gilbert (Vol VIII p654) does not mention the above incident (Shuckburgh's Diaries were published in 1986, two years before Vol VIII), but does mention Norman Brook ringing up Jock Colville to insist he return as PM's Private Secretary. So Brook was probably closeted with Churchill that day.Paulturtle (talk) 01:50, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

 * That's very interesting, thank you. It seems like there's quite a lot of contradiction on the topic of whether Eden and a couple of others around that period actually ever officially held the office or simply deputised. I, myself, am unsure and so I'm going to defer it to somebody else to decide what to put on Wikipedia! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 15:11, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

 * I have added a note in the article about the fact that Eden was never officially appointed DPM by the King, according to Brazier, however I've left the infobox unchanged as per a discussion on the topic on Rab Butler's talk page (which I mistakenly refered to as this talk page in my edit summary). FollowTheTortoise (talk) 19:34, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I've taken this phrase out for the moment ", so he [The King, presumably] rejected it in both 1951 and 1952" as I'm not sure what it means. I haven't come across any mention of this in the books (Dutton 1997 is the most detailed and scholarly Eden biography - that was where I found a footnote referring me to Shuckburgh's diaries). AE had already been given the title informally by Churchill (as noted above). Did he make another demand to be formally given such an office in 1952? Was this off King George VI or off the new Queen Elizabeth II?Paulturtle (talk) 02:37, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Dutton (p 245) mentions Churchill offering Eden a move from Foreign Secretary to a new role as Leader of the House and Deputy Prime Minister on 30 Aug 1954 (when Churchill was semi-recovered from his stroke and still desperately clinging to power in the hope of having a summit with Malenkov). Whether that would have meant putting the post of DPM on a more formal legal footing is not specified in the book (it might be in the original document, but I don't have access to that obviously).Paulturtle (talk) 03:32, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Hi! Sorry for any confusion. As for your first question, Brazier 2020 (p 72) states: "Churchill agreed to drop the objectionable part of Eden’s proposed designation, although this did not stop him from suggesting it again the following year, with the same result." So it doesn't actually say whether the King or the Queen refused him. He references Seldon 1981 (p 39-40) at the end of that sentence. I don't think that I have access to that book, but it might shed some more light if you have a copy.

 * Your second note from Dutton sounds really interesting. I'm not sure what we could do with it in the article, but it might suggest that Churchill, for a third time, tried to formally appoint Eden to the office. Thanks so much for your help with this. Let me know if you need anything else from this new Brazier book. I will double check whether I can access the Seldon book. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 19:27, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

 * One interesting nugget that I just found was that Brazier (p 75), using Macmillan 1973 (p 41), points out that Macmillan recorded in his diary in 1961 that the Queen "has rightly in the past pointed out that there is no such official post" of Deputy Prime Minister. Clearly, Her Majesty must have changed her opinion over the ensuing decades! Although this does leave it open as to whether it was the King or the Queen who rejected Churchill's second attempt in 1952. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 19:43, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Seldon 1981 is presumably “Churchill’s Indian Summer”, a history of the 1951-5 government which was well-received at the time. I’m not sure if I ever owned a copy but if I did I’ve long since mislaid it.

 * Andrew Roberts, in his 2018 biog of Churchill, mentions that Norman Brook and Alan Lascelles objected to the title “Deputy Prime Minister”, and states that Churchill agreed with them, but does not mention the – presumably informal – promise which Churchill made on the phone to Eden.

 * I can't find any independent confirmation that Churchill considered giving Eden a formal title in 1952. The nearest I can find is a plot to kick him upstairs to the Lords.

 * Gilbert pp702-4. Churchill consulted his doctor on the evening of 21 Feb 1952. He had suffered a “small arterial spasm” (ie. a mild stroke, a precursor to his more serious stroke the following year) which briefly affected his speech and powers of concentration. Next day there was a meeting between Churchill’s secretary Jock Colville, Moran (Churchill’s doctor) and Lord Salisbury. Both Colville and Moran left accounts of the meeting. Colville, who seems to have been the prime mover, asked if Churchill’s load could be lightened. After some sympathetic talk about how Churchill’s powers of work and concentration (and ability to come to the point in Cabinet meetings) varied a lot from day to day, Salisbury suggested that Churchill could go to the Lords as a figurehead Prime Minister until the new Queen’s Coronation in May 1953. Colville suggested that Eden could be Leader of the House and “virtual Prime Minister”. Salisbury agreed but they all felt Churchill would never agree. Moran and Colville went to see Alan Lascelles (Monarch’s Private Secretary) at the Palace, but he could not think of anyone who could persuade Churchill to semi-retire. Lascelles suggested that Moran should ask him to do so on medical grounds, but Moran replied that Churchill did not listen to him about politics. Lascelles said that the late King could have ordered him to, but he was “gone”. Next day (23 Feb) Colville phoned Churchill at Chartwell and asked him if he would delegate an upcoming speech to the War Secretary – Churchill retorted by asking if he’d been talking to Moran, and that was that. End of plot.

 * There was a small reshuffle on 1 Mar 1952 when Churchill handed over the job of Minister of Defence to Field Marshal Harold Alexander. It is possible that Churchill broached the topic of Eden's job description with the Palace again, although I haven't come across anything saying so.

 * as for 1954 ...

 * Gilbert pp1048-53 On 24 Aug 1954 Macmillan called on Churchill at Chartwell. Churchill now intended to stay on as PM until the next election in November 1955 (the last possible moment), instead of retiring in September 1954 as had been agreed, as he wanted to seek a summit meeting with Malenkov and on the somewhat dubious grounds that it would be unfair to Eden to expect him to head up a “fag-end” government for a year or so. He intended that Eden should “become” Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the House, also responsible for election campaigning. Macmillan, according to his diary, disagreed with all of this and thought Eden would not want to move from the Foreign Office. After an exchange of letters Eden then had a rather tense, if superficially polite, meeting with Churchill on 27 August (he had conferred with Butler and Macmillan beforehand – they all wanted Churchill to retire) and declined to move from the FO, although he accepted that Churchill was staying on for the moment. This is slightly different from the date of 30 Aug given by Dutton for the document he cites – maybe a separate memo was drawn up, or maybe the formal exchange of letters was filed on 30 Aug. Neither the formal exchange of letters nor Eden’s diary appear to mention him “becoming” DPM – that is just in Macmillan’s diary. Macmillan might not have been aware of Churchill’s informal granting of the title in October 1951.Paulturtle (talk) 06:06, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Sorry for taking a couple of days to get back to you and, yes, it was 'Churchill's Indian Summer'. If I may say, that's some extremely impressive research that you've done! I'm not sure what you want to do vis-à-vis the article, but I think that it's clear from this that Eden was never 'officially' granted the office. Thanks again and Happy Halloween! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 13:11, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Bisexuality
If he had a number of affairs with men then should we categorize him as bisexual? PatGallacher (talk) 13:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Bloch
Hey Rjensen. The reviews that I've seen on Bloch were all pretty similar: the book is fascinating but very uneven and while some parts are excellent, other times it veers into pure speculation. See [|The Times], [|Literary Review], [|The Standard], [|The Guardian]. IMO its not a reliable source, especially when we've got actual scholarly biographies of Eden. --RaiderAspect (talk) 07:56, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * OK -- it's best to make a case before erasing sourced material. Rjensen (talk) 08:19, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

 * Bloch is the kind of book which needs to be read with caution, especially where he is dealing with sexual mores which change a lot from generation to generation - the only constant over time is the opprobrium vented on those who offend against those mores. I remember some years ago reading a book about Lord Curzon (sadly I forget which one) which made the point that it was perfectly common for young men from public schools to interact with their close friends in a way which seems a bit "gay" to our era, and yet they reacted with utter horror on learning that somebody of their acquaintance was "a b***er". I rather suspect that these supposed "homosexual affairs" Eden had as a student were emotional friendships of that kind. The comments about his effeminacy in later life are interesting and worth quoting (some joker said that he launched the Suez adventure "to prove that he had a real moustache") but again don't mean that he was gay.Paulturtle (talk) 22:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Anthony Eden


text:
Talk:Tom Ford

spinning glasses
Must we really have this (apparently unstoppable) pair of spinning glasses on the page? It makes it very hard to read the article. I come to Wik to be informed,not entertained and distracted with ad-like content. 87.247.35.119 ([[User talk:87.247.35.119 03:59, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Who is he?
There is a photograph with a woman and a number of men, one of whom is TF, but which one?87.247.35.119 (talk) 04:06, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Tom Ford


text:
Lytchett Minster

Lytchett Minster is a village in Dorset, England. It lies around 4 miles north-west of Poole town centre. The village forms part of the civil parish of Lytchett Minster and Upton, Upton now being a suburb of Poole.

Location
Lytchett Minster lies on low-lying farmland around 2 km west of the Poole district of Upton, 2.5 km southeast of the village of Lytchett Matravers, and 1.2 miles east-northeast of Organford. To the northeast are Lytchett Heath, Beacon Hill and Upton Heath; to the southwest are Gore Heath and Holton Heath. The A35 dual carriageway bypasses the village to the east and south.

History and culture
Lytchett Minster is home to a number of manor houses, one of which now hosts the local secondary school.

South Lytchett Manor
In 1890 Baronet and MP Sir Elliott Lees bought land in Dorset and moved into South Lytchett Manor. The Manor was requisitioned in WW2, serving as the battery headquarters of an anti-aircraft defence regiment. After Sir John Lees' death in 1955, his heir, Sir Thomas Lees, decided to sell rather than renovate, and the Lees family moved to Post Green House, then a farmhouse on the estate. It was bought by the local Council and became Lytchett Minster Secondary Modern School, now Lytchett Minster School.

Post Green
In July 1942 Lieutenant Colonel Sir Francis Younghusband, explorer and spiritual writer, suffered a stroke. He then retired to Post Green House, as a guest of Lady Madeline Lees, where he died shortly after. He was buried in the village churchyard.

Lady Madeline Lees (née Pelly) was a passionate Christian with a desire to communicate the story of Jesus. After the local school Nativity play for many years, she decided it was time to produce something that could be shown around the world. So she roped in the whole village as actors, retired actor Gerald Rawlinson as a narrator, plus extras from Poole, Upton and other villages to create two successful amateur religious films, "A Voice Crying in the Wilderness" (1958) and "Messiah", released in 1960.

In the mid-1960s, Sir Thomas Lees and his wife, Lady Faith, started offering hospitality to people in need, accommodating up to 25 people at a time in their home and later expanding this community support using local homes they owned, to form the Post Green Community. The Post Green Community organized camps, retreats and seminars that attracted Christians from all over UK and abroad. It was associated with David Watson, Graham Pulkingham and the Charismatic movement, while remaining under the umbrella of the Church of England.

Sir Tom, realising how precious the land at Holton was, turned down a multi-million pound offer from a developer and designated it for charitable use as the East Holton Charity, renamed Holton Lee in 1992, had charitable trust status to develop an environmental and arts centre for disabled people. Since 2015 the charity has been taken over by UK charity Livability.

Governance
Lytchett Minster is within the Mid Dorset and North Poole constituency of the House of Commons. Until 31 January 2020, it was within the South West England constituency of the European Parliament. Two electoral wards exist: Lychett Minster and Upton East, and Lychett Minster and Upton West. As well as including most of Upton, the wards extend to the Beacon Hill area to the north and Bulbury to the west. The total population of the two wards at the 2011 Census was 7,983.

title: Lytchett Minster


text:
LNC

LNC may refer to:

 * Lancaster Regional Airport, a public-use airfield in Lancaster, Texas, United States (FAA identification code)
 * Lancaster station (Pennsylvania), a train station in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, United States (Amtrak station code)
 * Late Night Counsell, an Ottawa late night talk radio show
 * Law of Non-Contradiction, one of Aristotle's three classic laws of thought
 * Legal nurse consultant, a health care professional that aids in legal cases
 * Leszynski naming convention, a guide for programming notation
 * Lëvizja Nacionale Çlirimtare or National Liberation Movement, an Albanian resistance organization during World War II
 * Coalition (Australia), political alliance of the Liberal and National parties in Australia
 * Libertarian National Committee
 * Libertarian National Convention
 * Local News on Cable Virginia
 * London Necropolis Company
 * Low noise converter, a device used in satellite receivers

title: LNC


text:
Ubuntu philosophy

Ubuntu (meaning humanity in Bantu) describes a set of closely related African-origin value systems that emphasize the interconnectedness of individuals with their surrounding societal and physical worlds. "Ubuntu" is sometimes translated as "I am because we are" (also "I am because you are"), or "humanity towards others" (Zulu umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu). In Xhosa, the latter term is used, but is often meant in a more philosophical sense to mean "the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity".

Different names in other Bantu languages
Although the most popular term referring to the philosophy today is "ubuntu" (Zulu language, South Africa), the philosophy is believed to stretch back to the beginning of proto-Bantu language and has many other names in other Bantu languages.

The name also differs by country, such as in Angola (kimuntu), Botswana (setho), Burundi (ubuntu), Cameroon (bato), Republic of the Congo (RotC; bantu), Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC; bomoto/bantu), Kenya (utu/munto/mondo), Malawi (umunthu), Mozambique (vumuntu), Namibia (omundu), Rwanda (ubuntu), South Africa (ubuntu/botho), Tanzania (utu/obuntu/bumuntu), Uganda (obuntu), Zambia (umunthu/ubuntu), Northern Nigeria (mutum) and Zimbabwe (Ubuntu, unhu or hunhu). It is also found in other Bantu countries not mentioned here.

Definitions
There are various definitions of the word "Ubuntu". The most recent definition was provided by the African Journal of Social Work (AJSW). The journal defined Ubuntu as:

"A collection of values and practices that people of Africa or of African origin view as making people authentic human beings. While the nuances of these values and practices vary across different ethnic groups, they all point to one thing – an authentic individual human being is part of a larger and more significant relational, communal, societal, environmental and spiritual world"

There are many different (and not always compatible) definitions of what Ubuntu is. Even with the various definitions, Ubuntu encompasses the interdependence of humans on another and the acknowledgment of one's responsibility to their fellow humans and the world around them. It is a philosophy that supports collectivism over individualism.

Ubuntu asserts that society gives human beings their humanity. An example is a Zulu-speaking person who when commanding to speak in Zulu would say "khuluma isintu", which means "speak the language of people". When someone behaves according to custom, a Sotho-speaking person would say "ke motho", which means "he/she is a human". The aspect of this that would be exemplified by a tale told (often, in private quarters) in Nguni "kushone abantu ababili ne Shangaan", in Sepedi "go tlhokofetje batho ba babedi le leShangane", in English (two people died and one Shangaan). In each of these examples, humanity comes from conforming to or being part of the tribe.

According to Michael Onyebuchi Eze, the core of Ubuntu can best be summarised as follows: A person is a person through other people strikes an affirmation of one’s humanity through recognition of an "other" in his or her uniqueness and difference. It is a demand for a creative intersubjective formation in which the "other" becomes a mirror (but only a mirror) for my subjectivity. This idealism suggests to us that humanity is not embedded in my person solely as an individual; my humanity is co-substantively bestowed upon the other and me. Humanity is a quality we owe to each other. We create each other and need to sustain this otherness creation. And if we belong to each other, we participate in our creations: we are because you are, and since you are, definitely I am. The "I am" is not a rigid subject, but a dynamic self-constitution dependent on this otherness creation of relation and distance. An "extroverted communities" aspect is the most visible part of this ideology. There is sincere warmth with which people treat both strangers and members of the community. This overt display of warmth is not merely aesthetic but enables the formation of spontaneous communities. The resultant collaborative work within these spontaneous communities transcends the aesthetic and gives functional significance to the value of warmth. Warmth is not the sine qua non of community formation but guards against instrumentalist relationships. Unfortunately, sincere warmth may leave one vulnerable to those with ulterior motives.

"Ubuntu" as political philosophy encourages community equality, propagating the distribution of wealth. This socialisation is a vestige of agrarian peoples as a hedge against the crop failures of individuals. Socialisation presupposes a community population with which individuals empathise and concomitantly, have a vested interest in its collective prosperity. Urbanisation and the aggregation of people into an abstract and bureaucratic state undermines this empathy. African intellectual historians like Michael Onyebuchi Eze have argued, however, that this idea of "collective responsibility" must not be understood as absolute in which the community's good is prior to the individual's good. On this view, ubuntu it is argued, is a communitarian philosophy that is widely differentiated from the Western notion of communitarian socialism. In fact, ubuntu induces an ideal of shared human subjectivity that promotes a community's good through an unconditional recognition and appreciation of individual uniqueness and difference. Audrey Tang has suggested that Ubuntu "implies that everyone has different skills and strengths; people are not isolated, and through mutual support they can help each other to complete themselves."

"Redemption" relates to how people deal with errant, deviant, and dissident members of the community. The belief is that man is born formless like a lump of clay. It is up to the community, as a whole, to use the fire of experience and the wheel of social control to mould him into a pot that may contribute to society. Any imperfections should be borne by the community and the community should always seek to redeem man. An example of this is the statement by the African National Congress (in South Africa) that it does not throw out its own but rather redeems.

Other scholars such as Mboti (2015) argue that the normative definition of Ubuntu, notwithstanding its intuitive appeal, is still open to doubt. The definition of Ubuntu, contends Mboti, has remained consistently and purposely fuzzy, inadequate and inconsistent. Mboti rejects the interpretation that Africans are "naturally" interdependent and harmony-seeking, and that humanity is given to a person by and through other persons. He sees a philosophical trap in attempts to elevate harmony to a moral duty – a sort of categorical imperative – that Africans must simply uphold. Mboti cautions against relying on intuitions in attempts to say what Ubuntu is or is not. He concludes that the phrase umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu references a messier, undisciplined relationship between persons, stating that: "First, there is value in regarding a broken relationship as being authentically human as much as a harmonious relationship. Second, a broken relationship can be as ethically desirable as a harmonious one. For instance, freedom follows from a break from oppression. Finally, harmonious relations can be as oppressive and false as disharmonious ones. For instance, the cowboy and his horse are in a harmonious relationship."

Ubuntu maxims or short statements
Ubuntu is often presented in short statements called maxims by Samkange (1980). Some of these are:
 * Motho ke motho ka batho (Sotho/Tswana). A person is a person through other people.
 * Umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu (Zulu). A person is a person through other people.
 * Umntu ngumntu ngabantu (Xhosa). A person is a person through other people.
 * Munhu munhu nevanhu (Shona). A person through other people.
 * Ndiri nekuti tiri (Shona). I am because we are.
 * Munhu i munhu hivanwani vanhu (Xitsonga). A person is a person through other people.
 * Muthu ndi muthu nga vhathu (Venda). A person is a person through other people

History of the concept in African written sources
Ubuntu has been in existence in orature (oral literature) and in the culture of Bantu peoples. It appeared in South African written sources from as early as the mid-19th century. Reported translations covered the semantic field of "human nature, humanness, humanity; virtue, goodness, kindness". Grammatically, the word combines the root -ntʊ̀ "person, human being" with the class 14 ubu- prefix forming abstract nouns, so that the term is exactly parallel in formation to the abstract noun humanity.

The concept was popularised in terms of a "philosophy" or "world view" (as opposed to a quality attributed to an individual) beginning in the 1950s, notably in the writings of Jordan Kush Ngubane published in the African Drum magazine. From the 1970s, the ubuntu began to be described as a specific kind of "African humanism". Based on the context of Africanisation propagated by the political thinkers in the 1960s period of decolonisation, ubuntu was used as a term for a specifically African (or Southern African) kind of humanism found in the context of the transition to majority rule in Zimbabwe and South Africa.

The first publication dedicated to ubuntu as a philosophical concept appeared in 1980, Hunhuism or Ubuntuism: A Zimbabwe Indigenous Political Philosophy (hunhu being the Shona equivalent of Nguni ubuntu) by Stanlake J. W. T. Samkange. Hunhuism or Ubuntuism is presented as political ideology for the new Zimbabwe, as Southern Rhodesia attained independence from the United Kingdom.

The concept was used in South Africa in the 1990s as a guiding ideal for the transition from apartheid to majority rule. The term appears in the Epilogue of the Interim Constitution of South Africa (1993): "there is a need for understanding but not for vengeance, a need for reparation but not for retaliation, a need for ubuntu but not for victimisation".

In South Africa, it has come to be used as a contested term for a kind of humanist philosophy, ethic, or ideology, also known as Ubuntuism propagated in the Africanisation (transition to majority rule) process of these countries during the 1980s and 1990s. New research has begun to question the exclusive "humanism" framing, and thus to suggest that ubuntu can have a "militaristic" angle – an ubuntu for warriors.

In Uganda the term is used in people's everyday language as a way to relate to one another and call for community. The term can also be used to criticize another's actions if one states that they have lost "Obuuntu" (their humanity).

Since the transition to democracy in South Africa with the Nelson Mandela presidency in 1994, the term has become more widely known outside of Southern Africa, notably popularised to English-language readers through the ubuntu theology of Desmond Tutu. Tutu was the chairman of the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), and many have argued that ubuntu was a formative influence on the TRC.

Zimbabwe
In the Shona language, the majority spoken language in Zimbabwe, ubuntu is unhu or hunhu. In Ndebele, it is known as ubuntu. The concept of ubuntu is viewed the same in Zimbabwe as in other African cultures. The Shona phrase munhu munhu nekuda kwevanhu means a person is human through others while ndiri nekuti tiri means I am because we are.

Stanlake J. W. T. Samkange (1980) highlights the three maxims of Hunhuism or Ubuntuism that shape this philosophy: The first maxim asserts that 'To be human is to affirm one's humanity by recognizing the humanity of others and, on that basis, establish respectful human relations with them.' And 'the second maxim means that if and when one is faced with a decisive choice between wealth and the preservation of the life of another human being, then one should opt for the preservation of life'. The third 'maxim' as a 'principle deeply embedded in traditional African political philosophy' says 'that the king owed his status, including all the powers associated with it, to the will of the people under him'.

South Africa

Ubuntu: "I am what I am because of who we all are." (From a definition offered by Liberian peace activist Leymah Gbowee.)

Archbishop Desmond Tutu offered a definition in a 1999 book: "A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, based from a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed."

Tutu further explained Ubuntu in 2008:. "One of the sayings in our country is Ubuntu - the essence of being human. Ubuntu speaks particularly about the fact that you can't exist as a human being in isolation. It speaks about our interconnectedness. You can't be human all by yourself, and when you have this quality - Ubuntu - you are known for your generosity.

We think of ourselves far too frequently as just individuals, separated from one another, whereas you are connected and what you do affects the whole world. When you do well, it spreads out; it is for the whole of humanity."

Nelson Mandela explained Ubuntu as follows: "A traveller through a country would stop at a village and he didn't have to ask for food or for water. Once he stops, the people give him food and attend him. That is one aspect of Ubuntu, but it will have various aspects. Ubuntu does not mean that people should not address themselves. The question therefore is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?"

Tim Jackson refers to Ubuntu as a philosophy that supports the changes he says are necessary to create a future that is economically and environmentally sustainable. Judge Colin Lamont expanded on the definition during his ruling on the hate speech trial of Julius Malema.

At Nelson Mandela's memorial, United States President Barack Obama spoke about Ubuntu, saying,

"There is a word in South Africa – Ubuntu – a word that captures Mandela's greatest gift: his recognition that we are all bound together in ways that are invisible to the eye; that there is a oneness to humanity; that we achieve ourselves by sharing ourselves with others, and caring for those around us.

We can never know how much of this sense was innate in him, or how much was shaped in a dark and solitary cell. But we remember the gestures, large and small – introducing his jailers as honored guests at his inauguration; taking a pitch in a Springbok uniform; turning his family’s heartbreak into a call to confront HIV/AIDS – that revealed the depth of his empathy and his understanding. He not only embodied Ubuntu, he taught millions to find that truth within themselves."

Malawi
In Malawi, the same philosophy is called "uMunthu" in the local Chewa language. According to the Catholic Diocese of Zomba bishop Rt. Rev. Fr. Thomas Msusa, "The African worldview is about living as one family, belonging to God". Msusa noted that in Africa "We say 'I am because we are', or in Chichewa kali kokha nkanyama, tili awiri ntiwanthu (when you are on your own you are as good as an animal of the wild; when there are two of you, you form a community)."

The philosophy of uMunthu has been passed on through proverbs such as Mwana wa mnzako ngwako yemwe, ukachenjera manja udya naye (your neighbor's child is your own, his/her success is your success too). Some notable Malawian uMunthu philosophers and intellectuals who have written about this worldview are Augustine Musopole, Gerard Chigona, Chiwoza Bandawe, Richard Tambulasi, Harvey Kwiyani and Happy Kayuni. This includes Malawian philosopher and theologist Harvey Sindima’s treatment of uMunthu as an important African philosophy is highlighted in his 1995 book Africa’s Agenda: The legacy of liberalism and colonialism in the crisis of African values. In film, the English translation of the proverb lent its hand to forming the title of Madonna's 2008 documentary, I Am Because We Are, about Malawian orphans.

In diplomacy
In June 2009, in her swearing-in remarks as US Department of State Special Representative for Global Partnerships, Global Partnership Initiative, Office of the Secretary of State, Elizabeth Frawley Bagley discussed ubuntu in the context of American foreign policy, stating: "In understanding the responsibilities that come with our interconnectedness, we realize that we must rely on each other to lift our World from where it is now to where we want it to be in our lifetime, while casting aside our worn out preconceptions, and our outdated modes of statecraft." She then introduced the notion of "Ubuntu Diplomacy" with the following words:

"In 21st-century diplomacy, the Department of State will be a convener, bringing people together from across regions and sectors to work together on issues of common interest. Our work no longer depends on the least common denominator; but rather, we will seek the highest possible multiplier effect for the results we can achieve together.

We will also act as a catalyst, with our Foreign Service Officers launching new projects in tandem with those NGOs, philanthropies, and corporations at the front lines of foreign affairs to discover untapped potential, inspire fresh ideas, and create new solutions.

And we will act as a collaborator, leading interagency coordination here in Washington and cross-sector collaboration in the field, with our Ambassadors working closely with our non-governmental partners to plan and implement projects for maximum impact and sustainability.

It takes a shared, global response to meet the shared, global challenges we face. This is the truth taught to us in an old South African principle, ubuntu, or 'A person is a person through other persons.' As Archbishop Desmond Tutu describes this perspective, ubuntu 'is not, 'I think therefore I am.' It says rather: 'I am a human because I belong. I participate. I share. In essence, I am because you are.

We are truly all in this together, and we will only succeed by building mutually beneficial partnerships among civil society, the private sector, and the public sector, in order to empower the men and women executing our foreign policy to advance their work through partnerships.

The truth and reconciliation council believed in the philosophy of Ubuntu because they believed that Ubuntu was going to help to reform and reconnect the already broken country of South Africa.

This is Ubuntu Diplomacy: where all sectors belong as partners, where we all participate as stakeholders, and where we all succeed together, not incrementally but exponentially."

In education
In education, Ubuntu has been used to guide and promote African education, and to decolonise it from Western educational philosophies. Ubuntu education uses the family, community, society, environment and spirituality as sources of knowledge but also as teaching and learning media. The essence of education is family, community, societal and environmental well-being. Ubuntu education is about learners becoming critical about their social conditions. Interaction, participation, recognition, respect and inclusion are important aspects of ubuntu education. Methods of teaching and learning include groups and community approaches. The objectives, content, methodology and outcomes of education are shaped by Ubuntu.

In social work, welfare and development
This refers to Afrocentric ways of providing a social safety net to vulnerable members of society. Common elements include collectivity. The approach helps to "validate worldview and traditions suppressed by Western Eurocentric cultural hegemony". It is against materialism and individualism. It looks at an individual person as holistically. The social interventions done by social workers, welfare workers and development workers should strengthen, not weaken families, communities, society, the environment and peoples's spirituality. These are the five pillars of ubuntu intervention: family, community, society, environment and spirituality. Ubuntu is the current theme for the Global Agenda for Social Work and Social Development and represents the highest level of global messaging within social work profession for the years 2020–2030. Utilising the biopsychosocial and ecological system approaches, ubuntu is a philosophy that is applicable in clinical social work in mental health.

In research
Ubuntu can guide research objectives, ethics and methodology. Using ubuntu research approach provides researchers with an African oriented tool that decolonises research agenda and methodology. The objectives of ubuntu research are to empower families, communities and society at large. In doing ubuntu research, the position of the researcher is important because it helps create research relationships. The agenda of the research belongs to the community, and true participation is highly valued. Ujamaa is valued, it means pulling together or collaboration.

In moral philosophy
According to this philosophy, "actions are right roughly insofar as they are a matter of living harmoniously with others or honouring communal relationships", "One's ultimate goal should be to become a full person, a real self or a genuine human being". Ukama, i.e. relationships are important. Among the Shona people, for example, when a person dies, his or her property is shared amongst relatives and there are culturally approved ways of doing this. The practice is called kugova. Samkange (1980)'s maxim on morality says "If and when one is faced with a decisive choice between wealth and the preservation of the life of another human being, then one should opt for the preservation of life".

In politics and leadership
Samkange (1980) said no foreign political philosophy can be useful in a country more than the indigenous philosophies. "Is there a philosophy or ideology indigenous to (a) country that can serve its people just as well, if not better than, foreign ideologies?", asked Samkange in the book Hunhuism or Ubuntuism. His maxim for leadership is "The king owes his status, including all the powers associated with it, to the will of the people under him".

In social justice, criminal justice and jurisprudence
Ubuntu justice has elements different from western societies: it values repairing relationships. Ubuntu justice emphasises these elements:
 * 1) Deterrence which can be done socially, physically, economically or spiritually
 * 2) Returning and Replacement – meaning bring back what has been stolen, replacing it or compensating. In Shona language this is called kudzora and kuripa
 * 3) Apology, Forgiveness and Reconciliation (restoration of ukama or relations) after meeting the above
 * 4) Warnings and Punishments (retribution) from leaders and elders if the above have not been achieved or ignored
 * 5) Warnings and Punishments from spiritual beings if the above have not been met. In Shona culture, these are called jambwa and ngozi

Families, and at times community are involved in the process of justice.

African scholars have noted that while some elements of Ubuntu are liberating to women, others "marginalize and disempower" them, and "can be seen as engendering patriarchy".

In popular culture
Ubuntu was a major theme in John Boorman's 2004 film In My Country. Former US president Bill Clinton used the term at the 2006 Labour Party conference in the UK to explain why society is important.

The Boston Celtics, the 2008 NBA champions, have chanted "ubuntu" when breaking a huddle since the start of the 2007–2008 season. The first episode of the 2020 Netflix docuseries The Playbook shows how Boston Celtic's coach, Glenn Anton "Doc" Rivers learned of the Ubuntu philosophy. The documentary then explores the impact of the philosophy on the team members and how it became their guiding principle.

At the 2002 UN World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD), there was an Ubuntu Village exposition centre. Ubuntu was the theme of the 76th General Convention of the American Episcopal Church. The logo includes the text "I in You and You in Me".

In October 2004 Mark Shuttleworth, a South African entrepreneur and owner of UK based company Canonical Ltd., founded the Ubuntu Foundation that is the company behind the creation of a computer operating system based on Debian GNU/Linux. He named the Linux distribution Ubuntu.

In film, the English translation of the proverb lent its hand to forming the title of pop singer Madonna's documentary, I Am Because We Are about Malawian orphans.

A character in the 2008 animated comedy The Goode Family is named Ubuntu.

Ubuntu was the title and theme of an EP released by British band Clockwork Radio in 2012.

Ubuntu was the title of an EP released by American rapper Sage Francis in 2012.

Ubuntu was chosen as the name of a clan of meerkats in the 2021 season of Meerkat Manor: Rise of the Dynasty.

title: Ubuntu philosophy


text:
Sondra Gotlieb

Sondra Gotlieb (née Kaufman; 30 December 1936 in Winnipeg, Manitoba) is a Canadian journalist and novelist who lives in Toronto, Ontario.

She married Allan Gotlieb, Canadian ambassador to the United States during the presidency of Ronald Reagan. Her book Washington Rollercoaster recounted the Gotliebs' years as glamorous hosts in Washington during the Reagan Era, when she wrote a much-read column for the Washington Post. Vanity Fair magazine called her a "sparkling hostess", and in Washington she quickly became known for her irreverent attitude and sharp tongue. She often attracted attention with remarks considered out-of-character for diplomatic wives. Referring to Canada's image in America as a dull northern neighbour, she remarked: "Maybe we should invade South Dakota".

In 1986, she attracted a blaze of international publicity when reporter Juliet O'Neill caught her slapping her social secretary Connie Gibson Connors at an official dinner she and her husband were hosting in honour of the Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney and U.S. Vice-President George H. W. Bush. The incident, while criticized, made her one of the most talked-about women in Washington, and invitations to the Gotliebs' parties became highly coveted.

After she and her husband returned to Canada in the early 1990s, they moved to Toronto's exclusive Rosedale neighbourhood and became the centre of establishment society in that city. Allan joined numerous corporate boards, including Conrad Black's Hollinger Inc., while Sondra began writing columns for The Globe and Mail and later the National Post, which was owned by Conrad Black.

She won the Stephen Leacock Prize for her 1978 novel, True Confections, which was subtitled, Or How My Family Arranged My Marriage.

In 2001, she alluded to the infamous "Slap Flap" incident in a series of articles about her recent facelift, published in the National Post. Gotlieb recounted how the idea for cosmetic surgery first came to her after a visit with friends in Washington D.C. "One of them said to me, 'It must be nice living in Toronto. You can slop around without having to bother too much about your appearance. Canadians have such old-fashioned values.' For the second time in my life I felt like slapping someone's face."

Her regular column in the National Post continued until 2015.

She resides in the Toronto neighbourhood of Rosedale.

Family
Sondra Gotlieb (née Kaufman) and husband Allan were married in 1955. They had three children: Rebecca (1958-2003), Marc (born 1959), and Rachel (born 1962).

Rebecca, a lawyer, was married to Keith Ham, also a lawyer, but they separated and divorced a few years after the adoption of son David in 1992. She subsequently married journalist Matthew Fraser, former Editor-in-Chief of the National Post and television host. In early 2003, she died suddenly after a recurrence of liver cancer.

Marc, an art historian and former University of Toronto professor, is married to Lauren Freeman. They have three children.

Rachel is married to lawyer Rob Dickson and they have two children. They live in the Toronto neighbourhood of Rosedale.

Works

 * The Gourmet's Canada - 1972
 * True Confections - 1978
 * First Lady, Last Lady - 1981
 * Wife Of... - 1985
 * Washington Rollercoaster - 1990
 * Dogs, Houses, Gardens, Food & Other Addictions - 2002
 * When I Rises Up, I Gets Confused: The Best of Sondra Gotlieb - 2004

title: Sondra Gotlieb


text:
Talk:George VI

"A. F. A. George" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A._F._A._George&redirect=no A. F. A. George] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Estar8806 (talk) 01:15, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Elizabeth II which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:45, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Photo
I thought it'd be a nice change. You know, put in the cropped version of King George VI. RicLightning (talk) 00:39, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

RfC of interest
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Age at King George V's death
How old is the Duke of York when his father (King George V) died on January 20, 1936 72.83.180.155 (talk) 22:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:George VI


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Ibrahim al-Jaafari

Ibrahim Abd al-Karim al-Eshaiker (إبراهيم عبد الكريم الأشيقر; born 25 March 1947), also known as Ibrahim al-Jaafari, is an Iraqi politician who was Prime Minister of Iraq in the Iraqi Transitional Government from 2005 to 2006, following the January 2005 election. He served as Minister of Foreign Affairs from 2014 to 2018.

He was one of the two Vice Presidents of Iraq under the Iraqi Interim Government from 2004 to 2005, and he was the main spokesman for the Islamic Dawa Party. He withdrew his nomination for premiership for the permanent government.

Early life and education
He was born in Karbala to Abd al-Karim al-Eshaiker and Rahmah al-Eshaiker on March 25, 1947. He hails from the noble Al Zheek family that claims descent from Ibrahim al-Asghar bin Musa al-Kadhim, the seventh Shia Imam. The family settled in Karbala in the early 11th-century. His great-grandfather, Mahdi bin Ali bin Baqir al-Eshaiker, led the al-Eshaiker revolt in Karbala in 1876 against the Ottoman Empire.

al-Jaafari was educated at Mosul university as a medical doctor. He moved with his family to Iran where he lived and worked with the Islamic Revolution Council of Iraq, an Iran backed Iraqi opposition until 1989. He then moved to London where he continued his political activities by eventually heading the Dawa Islamic Party.

Member of Council of Representatives
He joined the Islamic Dawa Party in 1968. Upon graduation from school in 1974 he worked actively for the party in Iraq which was trying to overthrow the Ba'athist secular government. He left for Iran in 1980 and became involved in the movement against Saddam Hussein there as part of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq where he represented the Islamic Dawa Party. He adopted the name al-Jaafari in exile to protect his family in Iraq from retribution by Saddam. He moved to London in 1989 where he became the al-Dawa spokesman in the UK and an important participant in the wider anti-Saddam movement. While in the UK he attended many Iraqi Events giving religious sermons.

Iraq War and the fall of Saddam Hussein
He opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq but returned to Iraq soon after. He was picked in July 2003 as member of the U.S.-backed Iraqi Governing Council, and served as its first chairman and Iraq's first post-Saddam interim President for one month. On 1 June 2004, he was selected to be one of the two vice-presidents in the Iraqi Interim Government.

He brought al-Dawa into the United Iraqi Alliance coalition of Shi'ite parties and was second on the party's list after SCIRI leader Abdul Aziz al-Hakim.

January 2005 elections
Following the January 2005 Iraqi elections the strength of the UIA in the parliament made him a likely candidate to become the nation's new Prime Minister. Only Ahmed Chalabi challenged him for the position. Chalabi later dropped out of the race, being less than a favourite for a majority of the parties in the UIA, partly tainted by several scandals, thus leaving al-Jaafari unchallenged to become the alliance's candidate for the post. He was designated as Prime Minister on 7 April 2005, following the election of a Presidency Council the day before. After a long period of negotiations aimed at establishing a broad-based government, he and his cabinet were finally approved by the National Assembly of Iraq on 28 April.

December 2005 elections
In the national election of December 2005, the UIA once again won the majority of the votes, which according to the new Iraqi constitution, gets to pick the Prime Minister. UIA members voted for the Prime Minister with only two main candidates. Al-Jaafari was one and the SCIRI member Adel Abdul Mahdi, an economist. Jaafari won the vote only by one (64–63). His win was credited to the support of Muqtada Al Sadr's members of UIA, who all voted for him.

Despite this win, however, he became increasingly associated with the failure to end the violence in Iraq and to improve services. Because of this, the Sunni, Kurdish and secular groups in the parliament refused to agree to him continuing as Prime Minister, leading to deadlock. His refusal to stand down began to alienate even those who had backed him up to that point, but it is believed that only when Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani intervened that he finally stepped down. The US government had expressed dissatisfaction with him in two months earlier, with George W. Bush stating that he "doesn't want, doesn't support, doesn't accept" his retention as Prime Minister.

He was succeeded by al-Maliki as Dawa Party secretary-general in May 2007.

National Reform
In May 2008, al-Jaafari launched a new political party called the National Reform Trend. He was formally expelled from the Dawa party as a consequence, and his new party was widely seen as a vehicle for an attempt at regaining power.

Appointment as Foreign Minister
He was appointed as Minister of Foreign Affairs by newly-elect Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi on 8 September 2014.

In February 2018, al-Jaafari condemned the Turkish invasion of northern Syria aimed at ousting U.S.-backed Syrian Kurds from the enclave of Afrin. He stated: "We reject any foreign nation from intervening in the affairs of another country."

title: Ibrahim al-Jaafari