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DOCSIS

Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification (DOCSIS) is an international telecommunications standard that permits the addition of high-bandwidth data transfer to an existing cable television (CATV) system. It is used by many cable television operators to provide cable Internet access over their existing hybrid fiber-coaxial (HFC) infrastructure.

DOCSIS was originally developed by CableLabs and contributing companies, including Arris, BigBand Networks, Broadcom, Cisco, Comcast, Conexant, Correlant, Cox, Harmonic, Intel, Motorola, Netgear, Terayon, Time Warner Cable, and Texas Instruments.

Versions

 * Released in March 1997, DOCSIS 1.0 included functional elements from preceding proprietary cable modems.
 * Released in March 1997, DOCSIS 1.0 included functional elements from preceding proprietary cable modems.

 * Released in April 1999, DOCSIS 1.1 standardized quality of service (QoS) mechanisms that were outlined in DOCSIS 1.0.
 * Released in April 1999, DOCSIS 1.1 standardized quality of service (QoS) mechanisms that were outlined in DOCSIS 1.0.

 * (abbreviated D2)
 * Released in December 2001, DOCSIS 2.0 enhanced upstream data rates in response to increased demand for symmetric services such as IP telephony.

 * (abbreviated D3)
 * Released in August 2006, DOCSIS 3.0 significantly increased data rates (both upstream and downstream) and introduced support for Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6).

 * First released in October 2013, and subsequently updated several times, the DOCSIS 3.1 suite of specifications support capacities of up to 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM. The new specifications eliminated 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and instead use narrower (25 kHz or 50 kHz wide) orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that could end up being about 200 MHz wide. DOCSIS 3.1 technology also includes power-management features that will enable the cable industry to reduce its energy usage, and the DOCSIS-PIE algorithm to reduce bufferbloat. In the United States, broadband provider Comcast announced in February 2016 that several cities within its footprint will have DOCSIS 3.1 availability before the end of the year. At the end of 2016, Mediacom announced it would become the first major U.S. cable company to fully transition to the DOCSIS 3.1 platform.
 * First released in October 2013, and subsequently updated several times, the DOCSIS 3.1 suite of specifications support capacities of up to 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM. The new specifications eliminated 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and instead use narrower (25 kHz or 50 kHz wide) orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that could end up being about 200 MHz wide. DOCSIS 3.1 technology also includes power-management features that will enable the cable industry to reduce its energy usage, and the DOCSIS-PIE algorithm to reduce bufferbloat. In the United States, broadband provider Comcast announced in February 2016 that several cities within its footprint will have DOCSIS 3.1 availability before the end of the year. At the end of 2016, Mediacom announced it would become the first major U.S. cable company to fully transition to the DOCSIS 3.1 platform.

 * Improves DOCSIS 3.1 to use the full spectrum of the cable plant (0 MHz to ~1.8 GHz) at the same time in both upstream and downstream directions. This technology enables multi-gigabit symmetrical services while retaining backward compatibility with DOCSIS 3.1. CableLabs released the full specification in October 2017. Previously branded as DOCSIS 3.1 Full Duplex, these technologies have been rebranded as part of DOCSIS 4.0.
 * Improves DOCSIS 3.1 to use the full spectrum of the cable plant (0 MHz to ~1.8 GHz) at the same time in both upstream and downstream directions. This technology enables multi-gigabit symmetrical services while retaining backward compatibility with DOCSIS 3.1. CableLabs released the full specification in October 2017. Previously branded as DOCSIS 3.1 Full Duplex, these technologies have been rebranded as part of DOCSIS 4.0.

Comparison
In 1994, 802.14 was chartered to develop a media access control over an HFC. In 1995, Multimedia Cable Network System (MCNS) was formed. The original partners were TCI, Time Warner Cable, Comcast, and Cox. Later, Continental Cable and Rogers joined the group. In June 1996, SCTE formed the Data Standards Subcommittee to begin work on establishing national standards for high-speed data over cable plant. July 1997: SCTE DSS voted in the affirmative on document DSS 97-2. This standard is based on the well-known DOCSIS specification. The standard was also submitted to International Telecommunication Union Telecommunications Standardization Sector (ITU-T) and has been adopted as ITU-T J.112 Annex B.

European alternative
As frequency allocation bandwidth plans differ between United States and European CATV systems, DOCSIS standards earlier than 3.1 have been modified for use in Europe. These modifications were published under the name EuroDOCSIS. The differences between the bandwidths exist because European cable TV conforms to PAL/DVB-C standards of 8 MHz RF channel bandwidth and North American cable TV conforms to NTSC/ATSC standards which specify 6 MHz per channel. The wider channel bandwidth in EuroDOCSIS architectures permits more bandwidth to be allocated to the downstream data path (toward the user). EuroDOCSIS certification testing is executed by Belgian company Excentis (formerly known as tComLabs), while DOCSIS certification testing is executed by CableLabs. Typically, customer premises equipment receives "certification", while CMTS equipment receives "qualification".

International standards
The ITU Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) has approved the various versions of DOCSIS as international standards. DOCSIS 1.0 was ratified as ITU-T Recommendation J.112 Annex B (1998), but it was superseded by DOCSIS 1.1 which was ratified as ITU-T Recommendation J.112 Annex B (2001). Subsequently, DOCSIS 2.0 was ratified as ITU-T Recommendation J.122. Most recently, DOCSIS 3.0 was ratified as ITU-T Recommendation J.222 (J.222.0, J.222.1, J.222.2, J.222.3).

Note: While ITU-T Recommendation J.112 Annex B corresponds to DOCSIS/EuroDOCSIS 1.1, Annex A describes an earlier European cable modem system ("DVB EuroModem") based on ATM transmission standards. Annex C describes a variant of DOCSIS 1.1 that is designed to operate in Japanese cable systems. The ITU-T Recommendation J.122 main body corresponds to DOCSIS 2.0, J.122 Annex F corresponds to EuroDOCSIS 2.0, and J.122 Annex J describes the Japanese variant of DOCSIS 2.0 (analogous to Annex C of J.112).

Features
DOCSIS provides a variety of options available at Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) layers 1 and 2—the physical and data link layers.

Physical layer

 * Channel width:
 * Downstream: All versions of DOCSIS earlier than 3.1 use either 6 MHz channels (e.g. North America) or 8 MHz channels ("EuroDOCSIS"). DOCSIS 3.1 uses channel bandwidths of up to 192 MHz in the downstream.
 * Upstream: DOCSIS 1.0/1.1 specifies channel widths between 200 kHz and 3.2 MHz. DOCSIS 2.0 & 3.0 specify 6.4 MHz, but can use the earlier, narrower channel widths for backward compatibility. DOCSIS 3.1 uses channel bandwidths of up to 96 MHz in the upstream.
 * Modulation:
 * Downstream: All versions of DOCSIS prior to 3.1 specify that 64-level or 256-level QAM (64-QAM or 256-QAM) be used for modulation of downstream data, using the ITU-T J.83-Annex B standard for 6 MHz channel operation, and the DVB-C modulation standard for 8 MHz (EuroDOCSIS) operation. DOCSIS 3.1 adds 16-QAM, 128-QAM, 512-QAM, 1024-QAM, 2048-QAM and 4096-QAM, with optional support of 8192-QAM/16384-QAM.
 * Upstream: Upstream data uses QPSK or 16-level QAM (16-QAM) for DOCSIS 1.x, while QPSK, 8-QAM, 16-QAM, 32-QAM, and 64-QAM are used for DOCSIS 2.0 and 3.0. DOCSIS 2.0 and 3.0 also support 128-QAM with trellis coded modulation in S-CDMA mode (with an effective spectral efficiency equivalent to that of 64-QAM). DOCSIS 3.1 supports data modulations from QPSK up to 1024-QAM, with optional support for 2048-QAM and 4096-QAM.

Data link layer

 * DOCSIS employs a mixture of deterministic access methods for upstream transmissions, specifically time-division multiple access (TDMA) for DOCSIS 1.0/1.1 and both TDMA and S-CDMA for DOCSIS 2.0 and 3.0, with a limited use of contention for bandwidth reservation requests. In TDMA, a cable modem requests a time to transmit and the CMTS grants it an available time slot.
 * For DOCSIS 1.1 and above, the data layer also includes extensive quality-of-service (QoS) features that help to efficiently support applications that have specific traffic requirements such as low latency, e.g. voice over IP.
 * DOCSIS 3.0 features channel bonding, which enables multiple downstream and upstream channels to be used together at the same time by a single subscriber.

Throughput
The first three versions of the DOCSIS standard support a downstream throughput with 256-QAM of up to 42.88 Mbit/s per 6 MHz channel (approximately 38 Mbit/s after overhead), or 55.62 Mbit/s per 8 MHz channel for EuroDOCSIS (approximately 50 Mbit/s after overhead). The upstream throughput possible is 30.72 Mbit/s per 6.4 MHz channel (approximately 27 Mbit/s after overhead), or 10.24 Mbit/s per 3.2 MHz channel (approximately 9 Mbit/s after overhead).

DOCSIS 3.1 supports a downstream throughput with 4096-QAM and 25 kHz subcarrier spacing of up to 1.89 Gbit/s per 192 MHz OFDM channel. The upstream throughput possible is 0.94 Gbit/s per 96 MHz OFDMA channel.

Network layer

 * DOCSIS modems are managed via an Internet Protocol (IP) address.
 * The 'DOCSIS 2.0 + IPv6' specification allowed support for IPv6 on DOCSIS 2.0 modems via a firmware upgrade.
 * DOCSIS 3.0 added management over IPv6.

Throughput
Tables assume 256-QAM modulation for downstream and 64-QAM for upstream on DOCSIS 3.0, and 4096-QAM modulation for OFDM/OFDMA (first downstream/upstream methods) on DOCSIS 3.1, although real-world data rates may be lower due to variable modulation depending on SNR. Higher data rates are possible but require higher order QAM schemes which require higher downstream modulation error ratio (MER). DOCSIS 3.1 was designed to support up to 8192-QAM/16,384-QAM, but only support of up through 4096-QAM is mandatory to meet the minimum DOCSIS 3.1 standards.

For DOCSIS 3.0, the theoretical maximum throughput for the number of bonded channels are listed in the table below.

Note that the number of channels a cable system can support is dependent on how the cable system is set up. For example, the amount of available bandwidth in each direction, the width of the channels selected in the upstream direction, and hardware constraints limit the maximum amount of channels in each direction.

Note that the maximum downstream bandwidth on all versions of DOCSIS depends on the version of DOCSIS used and the number of upstream channels used if DOCSIS 3.0 is used, but the upstream channel widths are independent of whether DOCSIS or EuroDOCSIS is used.

Upstream
Traditional DOCSIS upstream in North America uses the 5–42 MHz frequency range. The 5–65 MHz range is used by EuroDOCSIS. This is known as a "low-split" or "sub-split" design, capable of a total shared capacity of ~108 Mbit/s upstream (assuming 4 SC-QAM upstream channels).

In recent years, cable operators have begun to increase the amount of bandwidth dedicated to the upstream. The two most popular options for this include a "mid-split" or "high-split".

A mid-split increases the upstream frequency range to 5–85 MHz, supporting a total shared upstream capacity of ~450 Mbit/s (assuming 4 SC-QAM + OFDMA channels).

A high-split increases the upstream frequency range to 5–204 MHz, supporting a total shared upstream capacity of ~1.5 Gbit/s (assuming 4 SC-QAM + OFDMA channels).

DOCSIS 4.0 in both full-duplex (FDX) and extended spectrum DOCSIS (ESD) configurations will support upstream speeds surpassing 5 Gbit/s.

Equipment

A DOCSIS architecture includes two primary components: a cable modem located at the customer premises, and a cable modem termination system (CMTS) located at the CATV headend.

The customer PC and associated peripherals are termed customer-premises equipment (CPE). The CPE are connected to the cable modem, which is in turn connected through the HFC network to the CMTS. The CMTS then routes traffic between the HFC and the Internet. Using provisioning systems and through the CMTS, the cable operator exercises control over the cable modem's configuration.

DOCSIS 2.0 was also used over microwave frequencies (10 GHz) in Ireland by Digiweb, using dedicated wireless links rather than HFC network. At each subscriber premises the ordinary CM is connected to an antenna box which converts to/from microwave frequencies and transmits/receives on 10 GHz. Each customer has a dedicated link but the transmitter mast must be in line of sight (most sites are hilltop).

Security
DOCSIS includes media access control (MAC) layer security services in its Baseline Privacy Interface specifications. DOCSIS 1.0 used the initial Baseline Privacy Interface (BPI) specification. BPI was later improved with the release of the Baseline Privacy Interface Plus (BPI+) specification used by DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0. Most recently, a number of enhancements to the Baseline Privacy Interface were added as part of DOCSIS 3.0, and the specification was renamed "Security" (SEC).

The intent of the BPI/SEC specifications is to describe MAC layer security services for DOCSIS CMTS to cable modem communications. BPI/SEC security goals are twofold:
 * Provide cable modem users with data privacy across the cable network
 * Provide cable service operators with service protection (i.e. prevent unauthorized modems and users from gaining access to the network's RF MAC services)

BPI/SEC is intended to prevent cable users from listening to each other. It does this by encrypting data flows between the CMTS and the cable modem. BPI and BPI+ use 56-bit Data Encryption Standard (DES) encryption, while SEC adds support for 128-bit Advanced Encryption Standard (AES). The AES key, however, is protected only by a 1024-bit RSA key.

BPI/SEC is intended to allow cable service operators to refuse service to uncertified cable modems and unauthorized users. BPI+ strengthened service protection by adding digital certificate based authentication to its key exchange protocol, using a public key infrastructure (PKI), based on digital certificate authorities (CAs) of the certification testers, currently Excentis (formerly known as tComLabs) for EuroDOCSIS and CableLabs for DOCSIS. Typically, the cable service operator manually adds the cable modem's MAC address to a customer's account with the cable service operator; and the network allows access only to a cable modem that can attest to that MAC address using a valid certificate issued via the PKI. The earlier BPI specification (ANSI/SCTE 22-2) had limited service protection because the underlying key management protocol did not authenticate the user's cable modem.

Security in the DOCSIS network is vastly improved when only business critical communications are permitted, and end user communication to the network infrastructure is denied. Successful attacks often occur when the CMTS is configured for backward compatibility with early pre-standard DOCSIS 1.1 modems. These modems were "software upgradeable in the field", but did not include valid DOCSIS or EuroDOCSIS root certificates.

Specifications

 * DOCSIS 1.0 specifications
 * DOCSIS 1.1 specifications
 * DOCSIS 2.0 specifications
 * DOCSIS 3.0 specifications
 * DOCSIS 3.1 specifications
 * DOCSIS 4.0 specifications

title: DOCSIS


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User talk:Vudujava

Hi there, I'm a 41 year old male, married, no kids. Considering a job offer in Detroit, and I wonder what life in Detroit is like. We are more following the "Yuppie" lifestyle, restaurants, bars, a nice live music spot from time to time. On the weekends, walking, hiking. Play tennis, some golf. Shopping, working out in a gym. Would prefer to live in a lively, clean and safe neighbourhood, preferrably in a well managed appartment building. Any suggestions? (ralf.stoehr@gmx.net)

---

Just finished reformatting and rewriting the erotic actor section, partially to balance the page out and partially to give better information. Comment if you wish. Please feel free to add anything you feel I've left out :vudu 00:45, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Added history to the Wonderland Murders page (it only contained an update about Eddie Nash, a principle in the case) and commented on the new John Holmes talk page. It appears that someone claiming to be John Holmes widow commented about what a nice guy he was, while plugging the John Holmes pay porn site.

 * While I'm on the subject of porn stars, I have a question: I see a lot of new entries being made on the erotic actors page, does anyone plan on ever writing biographies for all of these people? I will admit to having added a number of people to the list myself, but I've also been writing bio's for them. Eventually, I will get to writing bio's for every entry I've made (if someone doesn't beat me to the punch). Why do people add 20 obscure names to these pages and then fail to write biographies for them? I just find it annoying. vudu 17:21, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

No problem. Can you confirm that the text at Merchant Marine is correct? It was basically a guess based on the former content of Merchant marine, which I wanted to move due to Americocentrism. Do you know that my suppositions were correct? Tuf-Kat 03:32, Sep 23, 2003 (UTC)
 * Well, I know it's not a strictly US thing, because the CIA listed it in all of the Communication of XXX articles (where XXX = a country). The reason it appeared on the most wanted pages list is because I linked to it in many of these articles, because I didn't know what it was and wanted someone to fill it in.  So, thanks for at least giving me a general idea of the term.  Toke on, Tuf-Kat

the picture of natalie portman is from a movie premiere, not a magazine. SargeBaldy 3 Oct 2003

Hi. You can go to Gina Lynn and edit it yourself. It will probably take you to Ginger Lynn, but all you have to do is click on the Gina Lynn link at the top of the page then edit that page, removing the Redirect. RickK 03:35, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I find it interesting that you come after this article within hours of the time I mention factual mistakes you made Ginger Lynn/Gina Lynn.
 * I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no recollection of even having made edits concerning Ginger Lynn or Gina Lynn, and I certainly didn't redirect one to the other.  I had not even read your comments on my talk page until tonight, the day after I made the comments on the 12th Street Riot page.  I don't care what your feelings for me are, one way or the other, but don't try to imply that I'm out for revenge against you because of some idea that I disagreed with you on some article that I never even touched.  Look at the history of Gina Lynn and you'll see that I never touched that page.  And all I did on the Ginger Lynn page was to try to make some sense out of what someone had bulked together into one page with no rhyme or reason.  It was simply an editorial edit, not a content edit -- I have no idea who Ginger Lynn OR Gina Lynn is, nor do I particularly care.  Nor do I particularly care about you, despite your seeming trumped-up opinion of yourself.  Having said that, in order not to make you think that I'm attacking you by attacking the 12th Street Riot page, I will back off from editing it, but I will put it on the Pages needing attention page, so someone else can have a go at it.  Wouldn't want to buff up your ego any.  BTW, until all of this came up, I don't recall having even heard of you. RickK 04:10, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Copied from Vandalism in Progress:
 * In his KingPr0n's defense, the alterations on the porn star pages were genuine additions of genuine information, albeit concerned exclusively with anal sex. Of course, that subject's not wildly surprising on a page about a porn star. (Whether it belong in wikipedia is another story.) But it can't objectively be called vandalism, I don't think. By the way, both starlet pages use the euphemism "erotic actress" rather than the more stright-forward and obvious "porn star". Why the weasel words? orthogonal 22:08, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hello,

yes. My revert might have been a bit hasty. I suggest you can put in your version again, and we can work on this (or we work on the current version). Ok? I am quite sure we can create a text that we both like.

cu, --zeno 09:39, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

St. Louis Blues
EMERGENCY! Infrogmation has vandalised your contributions to St. Louis Blues. Please ask all hockey fans to vote at Talk:St. Louis Blues to keep St. Louis Blues as a National Hockey League page and not a redirect to a disambiguation page. Thank You! -- 24.217.211.99 07:30, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

How about Tia Bella
No article on Tia Bella - want to throw one together? -- BD2412 talk 17:05, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi. No idea why the previous Tia Bella article was deleted, but I've made another effort at it. Hopefully this one will stay up; it isn't like there aren't any other articles about porn stars on Wikipedia. -EdgarAllanToe 13:43, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:51, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ken Dryden

A tag has been placed on Ken Dryden, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. FULBERT (talk) 16:48, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Vudujava


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The Shangri-Las

The Shangri-Las were an American girl group of the 1960s, consisting of Mary Weiss, her sister Elizabeth "Betty" Weiss and twin sisters Marguerite "Marge" Ganser, and Mary Ann Ganser. Between 1964 and 1966 several hit pop songs of theirs documented teen tragedies and melodramas. They continue to be known for their hits "Remember (Walking in the Sand)", "Give Him a Great Big Kiss", and in particular, "Leader of the Pack" which went to #1 in the United States in late 1964. Following the death of Mary Weiss in 2024, her sister Betty is the only living member of the group.

Early career
The group was formed at Andrew Jackson High School in Cambria Heights, a neighborhood in Queens, New York City, in 1963. The group consisted of two pairs of sisters: Mary Weiss (lead singer) and Elizabeth "Betty" Weiss, and identical twins Marguerite "Marge"/"Margie" Ganser and Mary Ann Ganser.

They began playing school shows, talent shows, and teen hops; Artie Ripp heard about them and arranged the group's first record deal with Kama Sutra. Their first recording in December 1963 was "Simon Says", later issued on the Smash label, on which Betty Weiss sang lead. They also recorded "Wishing Well" / "Hate to Say I Told You So", which became their first release in early 1964 when leased to the small Spokane, Washington label.

Initially, the girls performed without a name for their group; however when they signed their first deal, they began to call themselves the Shangri-Las, after a restaurant in Queens.

Some discographies list the Beatle-ettes and the Bon Bons, who both issued singles in 1964, as early versions of the Shangri-Las; however, they are different groups.

Mary Weiss was the main lead singer; Betty, however, took lead on "Maybe" (the LP version), "Shout", "Twist and Shout", "Wishing Well", and a number of B-sides and album tracks. Mary Ann Ganser took lead on most of "I'm Blue", which is a cover of the Ikettes' biggest hit at the time, and was included on their 1965 album Shangri-Las 65!.

Success at Red Bird Records
In April 1964, while the girls were minors, their parents signed the quartet with Red Bird Records; Mary was 15, Betty was 17, and the Ganser twins were 16. Having been hired by record producer George "Shadow" Morton, they had their first success with the summer hit "Remember (Walking in the Sand)" (US #5, UK #14). Billy Joel, a then-unknown working as a session musician, played on the demo of "Remember (Walkin' in the Sand)". The demo was nearly seven minutes long, too long for Top 40 radio. Morton had hired the group to perform on the demo, but Red Bird released a re-recorded version. Morton faded the new version out around 2:16.

The recordings for Morton featured lavish production with heavy orchestration and sound effects, and their next and biggest hit, "Leader of the Pack" (U.S. #1, UK #11), climaxes with roaring motorcycles and breaking glass. UK re-issues peaked at #3 in 1972 and #7 in 1976. The song epitomized the "death disc"; songs with lyrics focusing on suicide, murders and fatal crashes, which were popular from the late 1950s until the mid-1960s.

After the sudden success of "Remember (Walking in the Sand)", The Shangri Las were called upon to make personal appearances, which required them to leave high school. Mary, however, stayed on for classes at a high school for young professionals in Manhattan. By the end of 1964, the group was an established act. They performed with the Beatles, a Fall 1964 tour with the Rolling Stones, R&B artists such as the Drifters and James Brown (who according to Mary Weiss was surprised to discover the girls were white), and Cashbox magazine listed them as best new R&B group. The group was also a fixture on the Murray the K shows at the Brooklyn Fox from 1964 to 1966. They also promoted Revlon cosmetics. The Shangri-Las appeared as a quartet to promote "Remember", starting with their stint on the 1964 Labor Day Murray the K show. In October 1964, Betty Weiss dropped out temporarily, leaving the group as a trio. She is still featured on the recording for "Leader of the Pack", which was recorded prior to the release of "Remember". The trio that remained went on to tour the US and also appeared on many TV shows, including Hullabaloo, Shindig!, Hollywood a Go Go, and The Lloyd Thaxton Show. During October 1964, Mary and the Gansers did a short TV and Radio tour of the UK (their only UK appearances). Betty then rejoined the group in mid-1965 (her first return appearance with the Shangri-las was listed as a June 1965 Go Go episode hosted by Cousin Brucie in New York City), and the group appeared as a quartet once again until the start of 1966, when they permanently became a trio (Mary Ann and Marge left at different times, replacing each other until the demise of the group).

The group alternated between touring with their own band and local bands. Among the latter were the Sonics, as well as the Iguanas featuring a young Iggy Pop. They also appeared as headliners on package tours such as Dick Clark's Caravan of Stars, with R&B acts like the Orlons and Joe Tex. Later in their career, the Shangri-Las performed several college dates with bands like the Young Rascals, the Animals, and Vanilla Fudge.

Public image
The Shangri-Las' "tough girl" persona set them apart from other girl groups. From a blue collar area of Queens, they were less demure than their contemporaries. Rumors about supposed escapades have since become legend; for example, the story that Mary Weiss attracted the attention of the FBI for transporting a firearm across state lines. In her defense, she said someone tried to break into her hotel room one night and for protection she bought a pistol. Whatever truth the stories may have, they were believed by fans in the 1960s, and they helped cement the group's bad-girl reputation. According to Weiss, that persona helped fend off advances from musicians on tours.

The Shangri-Las continued to chart with fairly successful U.S. hit records, specializing in adolescent themes such as alienation, loneliness, abandonment, and premature death. Singles included "Give Him a Great Big Kiss", "Out in the Streets", "Give Us Your Blessings", the top ten hit "I Can Never Go Home Anymore", "Long Live Our Love" (a rare example of a song dedicated to the men at the time fighting overseas in Vietnam), "He Cried" and the spoken-word "Past, Present, and Future", featuring a musical backdrop inspired by Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata". Noteworthy B-sides included "Heaven Only Knows", "The Train from Kansas City", "Dressed in Black" and "Paradise" (written by Harry Nilsson).

Popular songs include "I Can Never Go Home Anymore", the story of a girl who leaves home for a boy; her pride keeps her from returning to her mother who "grew so lonely in the end/the angels picked her for their friend". Lines from "Give Him a Great Big Kiss" include "When I say I'm in love, you best believe I'm in love, L-U-V", and ''"Well I hear he's bad." "Hmm, he's good-bad, but he's not evil."'' "Past, Present, and Future" has been said to be about rape, something Weiss disagrees with. She has said it is about "teenage angst," heartbreak, and "being hurt and angsty and not wanting anyone near you."

Disintegration and retirement
The group appeared on several TV shows and continued to tour the US, but in 1966, two of three releases on Red Bird failed to crack the U.S. top 50, though the group remained popular in England and Japan. Mary Ann Ganser left, but returned early in 1967 when Marge – the most outspoken member, sometimes considered the leader – left. Red Bird Records had folded. The group recorded more tracks with Shadow Morton producing (some of which remain unreleased) and signed with Mercury Records. However, Morton had begun working with Janis Ian and Vanilla Fudge, and Mercury had little enthusiasm for the group. During their Mercury stint, the Shangri-Las had no further hits; in 1968, they disbanded, amid litigation.

All the Shangri-Las withdrew from the spotlight. Morton said, "The Shangri-Las vacated, they vanished". Reportedly they were angry that they had received few royalties despite the millions of records they had sold.

Mary Weiss moved to New York's Greenwich Village and then to San Francisco. Returning to Manhattan a few years later and prevented from recording because of lawsuits, she worked as a secretary while taking college classes. She then went into the architectural industry, working in the accounting department of a New York architectural firm. Weiss moved up to be the chief purchasing agent and later ran a commercial furniture dealership. In the late 1980s she managed a furniture store and was an interior designer. By 2001, she was a furniture consultant to New York businesses. She married in 1974, but the marriage ended in 1988; she married again several years later, and her second husband managed her music career until their divorce. In March 2007, Norton Records released a solo album by Mary Weiss (backed by garage rockers the Reigning Sound) titled Dangerous Game. She performed in the United States, Spain, and France. Mary Weiss died in Palm Springs, California on January 19, 2024, at age 75 of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and is survived by her third husband.

Mary Ann Ganser began to have problems with drug and alcohol addiction in 1968. She died in Queens on March 16, 1970, aged 22, of a drug overdose. (This may have been a heroin overdose as mentioned in a contemporary newspaper report and on her death certificate, or a barbiturate overdose as related later by her mother to a journalist. )  Her death has been incorrectly reported as having been caused by encephalitis, or by a seizure disorder.

Marge Ganser reportedly returned to school in the late 1960s. By the early 1970s, she married (changing her name to Marguerite Ganser Dorste), worked for NYNEX in Valley Stream, New York, and died of breast cancer on July 28, 1996, at age 48.

Betty Weiss had a daughter in 1964, necessitating her absence from the group during this period. She was the only member of the group to have a child (who was raised with the help of Betty's brother George Weiss, who died in 1998). Betty Weiss also married and held several jobs and now lives and works on Long Island.

The group declined offers to perform throughout the 1970s, although they did have a few live performances. Following the successful re-issue of "Leader of the Pack" in the UK in 1976, which renewed interest in the group, Mary and Betty Weiss and Marge Ganser reunited. Contacting Seymour Stein of Sire Records, they spent summer 1977 in New York with producer Andy Paley. Paley said the sessions went well, but they weren't satisfied with all the material, and declined to release the record. The tapes are now owned by the Warner Music Group. They did, however, give a live performance at CBGB; Paley put together a band, including Lenny Kaye, and after two hours of rehearsal, the Shangri-Las returned to the stage for the first time in a decade. Although the Sire sessions came to naught, the group toyed with signing to another label; however, they were put off by the insistence of record executives that they be a disco vocal group, the musical trend of the day. Mary said she envisioned the Shangri-Las like punk singer Patti Smith. Eventually, the Shangri-Las split up again.

Since the 1980s, a trio has been performing under the name the Shangri-Las, although unconnected with the original group. The copycat act was put together by Dick Fox, who claimed to have bought the rights to the name, and resulted in legal action from both sides, largely due to a video tape of the new Shangri-Las claiming in public to be the original group. The original group performed for the last time at a reunion show hosted by Cousin Brucie (Bruce Morrow) in East Rutherford, New Jersey, on June 3, 1989.

Influence
The streetwise image of the Shangri-Las – initially a promotional device for "Leader of the Pack" – contrasted with other "girl groups" of the 1960s, and they were cited as an influence by 1970s punk rock-era acts such as the New York Dolls, Ramones and Blondie; the latter covered "Out in the Streets" twice. British punk band The Damned released their debut single, "New Rose", in 1976. It was the first ever single released by a British punk band and the intro to the song featured a deadpan parody by singer Dave Vanian of the line "Is she really going out with him?" from "Leader of the Pack".

Aerosmith released a rock style version of "Remember (Walking in the Sand)" featuring uncredited backing vocals by Mary Weiss on their 1979 album, Night in the Ruts. The song was released as a single and charted on the Billboard Hot 100 at number 67. It was also featured on their 1980 Greatest Hits album.

Scottish alternative rock band the Jesus and Mary Chain cited the Shangri-Las as an early influence. In 1985, the band's guitarist William Reid stated: "We all love the Shangri-Las, and one day we're going to make Shangri-Las records."

In 1992, The Beach Boys recorded a cover of "Remember (Walking in the Sand)" on their poorly received album, Summer in Paradise. In Revolution in the Head, music critic Ian MacDonald suggests the bridge of the Beatles' 1995 single "Free as a Bird" borrows from the verse of "Remember (Walking in the Sand)"; the lyric "Whatever happened to/ the boy that I once knew" becoming "Whatever happened to/ the life that we once knew".

The Shangri-Las are referenced in John Mellencamp's 1985 single "R.O.C.K. in the U.S.A." from his third album Scarecrow. They were also referenced by Paul McCartney in a McCartney II sessions track, "Mr H Atom" / "You Know I'll Get You Baby", recorded in 1979, but not released until 2011.

British singer Amy Winehouse cited the Shangri-Las as an influence for her second album Back to Black (2006) and occasionally integrated the hook lyrics from "Remember (Walking in the Sand)" into the bridge of her song "Back to Black" during live performances. Winehouse called "I Can Never Go Home Anymore" the "saddest song in the world."

Kathleen Hanna of the electropunk group Le Tigre has mentioned that the "one girl calling another" motif and the opening sound of seagulls on the track "What's Yr Take on Cassavetes?" were inspired by the Shangri-Las.

While recording her 2017 album Lust for Life, American singer Lana Del Rey was heavily influenced by the Shangri-Las.

In the 2015 documentary Wider Horizons, David Gilmour, guitarist for Pink Floyd, cited the Shangri-Las as an influence, saying their music "painted aural pictures".

Members

 * Mary Weiss (1963–1968, 1977, 1989; died 2024)
 * Marguerite "Marge" Ganser (1963–1968, 1977, 1989; died 1996)
 * Mary Ann Ganser (1963–1966, 1966-1968; died 1970)
 * Elizabeth "Betty" Weiss (1963–1964, 1965-1968, 1977, 1989)

Compilation albums

 * 1966: Golden Hits of the Shangri-Las
 * 1975: The Shangri-Las Sing
 * 1986: The Dixie Cups Meet the Shangri-Las
 * 1994: Myrmidons of Melodrama
 * 1996: The Best of the Shangri-Las
 * 2002: Myrmidons of Melodrama (Re-issue)
 * 2008: Remembered
 * 2008: Greatest Hits
 * 2009: The Complete Collection

Listening

 * Interview with Mary Weiss from Fresh Air radio program, NPR Podcast, March 6, 2007
 * Interview with Mary Weiss from WFMU-FM, Real Audio archive, October 9, 2007

title: The Shangri-Las


text:
Talk:Albanians

Nation
Based on the definition of nation, which one can read on Wikipedia, the Albanians constitute a nation. I have made this edit as an addition. Considering the history of the Albanians, the political status in the Balkans regarding predominately ethnic-Albanian countries etc, the Albanians are most definitely not merely an ethnic group, but a nation as well. Virgilanthony (talk) 23:20, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Explanatory footnotes edit warring
,,

All three of you have been involved in a slow burn edit war on whether to have  in the article when Kosovo is mentioned. I'm not seeing any attempt at discussion, either here on this talk page or on your respective user talk pages. This is not how we do things here. Please note that WP:SUMMARYNO says edit summaries are not for "long-winded arguments with fellow editors". Yet another revert with a long edit summary isn't going to finally convince any of you of the veracity of the other's position. The status quo does not have the footnote. I encourage parties to leave it that way pending discussion on the issue here. Please discuss. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 20:47, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for starting the thread, . I was expecting that the account who wants to propose the change was going to do so, hence I waited for them to start it but I probably should have started it myself.--Maleschreiber (talk) 21:21, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Albanians from the Ottoman Empire
I just realized that in connection with the Ottoman Empire we have too many Albanian categories. So Albanina people of x descent categories should only exist for those who lived after the forming of Albanian in the 1910s. Someone who lived in the Ottoman Empire should be in the People from the Ottoman Empire of Boo descent cats. We currently have Category:People from the Ottoman Empire of Albanian descent, Category:Albanians in the Ottoman Empire and Category:Albanian people in the Ottoman Empire. This is clearly only at most 2 categories. Oh, it gets worse, we also have Category:Albanians from the Ottoman Empire that is a sub-cat of Category:People from the Ottoman Empire by ethnicity which is a parent to the People from the Ottoman Empire by ethnic or national descent cat. We do not seem to have either Category:Macedonians from the Ottoman Empire or Category:People from the Ottoman Empire of Macedonian descent. I can not state how much we are really following good principals in these categories. Clearly we should only have 2 Albanian categories at most, and I would ask 2 questions. 1-with much of the Albanian lands in the Ottoman Empire for several centuries, does it make sense to seperate descent and not descent cats? With American people of Albanian descent they are clearly in a state of being removed from the ethnic homeland, this is not the case for Albanians in the Ottoman Empire. The other issues that relates to this is, if we have someone in the Ottoman Empire who for whatever reason we are not comfortable saying they are in fact "Albanian", is their ethnicity at all defining. The big problem is that some category names were developed for cases like the United States and people from groups that immigrated to the US from elsewhere. They do not work easily in Eastern Europe.~ John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

 * One issues is that for Greek, Albanian, Bulgarian and several other Balkan ethnicities we are using one term to describe 1-people who are ethnically that who live in the country 2-people who are ethnically that who live in other countries and 3-people who are not ethnically that, but are nationals of that country. There are reasons to use terms loosely, especially when it reflects usage in common practice. However there are limits. Right now for Albanians we have 1-Ventician Albanians 2-Kosovo Albanians 3-Yugoslav Albanians and 4-Albanaians from the Ottoman Empire (but see the mess there above). We do have Category:Albanians in Greece but that is not currently under Category:Albanians like the other categories. It is instead under Albanian diaspora, but are Cham Albanians really a diasporatic population? In some ways they seem more to harken to a time when the zone of ethnic Albanians was larger, if also more interspersed. Also I could see arguments for creating Category:North Macedonia Albanians, since that is another place where many ethnic Albanians reside, sometimes in fully Albanian communities. We have Category:Albanian communities in North Macedonia, and we do have Category:Albanians in North Macedonia. The names seem a bit messy.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:18, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

 * It is not just the names of categories. Melos Bajrami is in Category:Albanians in North Macedonia. The opening describes him as a "Kosovoan professional footballer". He was born in what is now Resen, North Macedonia in 2001, so after Yugoslavia had dissolved. The first mention the article makes is that in 2021 Bajrami joined a football side in Korçë, Albania. So Did he grow up in North Macedonia or in Kosovo? How old was he when he moved? Did he actually live in Kosovo, or were his parents from Kosovo, went to North Macedonia in the 1999 or so war, and then stayed there, until at some point the family or him alone went to the country of Albania? In 2022 Bajrami goes to North Macedonia to play for a team there with an Albanian name, so I suspect many of its players are ethnically Albanian. It gets better, Bajrami was also eligible to represent Australia on the international level? So now it looks like Bajrami might fit in Category:North Macedonia emigrants to Austrlia; at least if we are willing to use that category for anyone who left North Macedonia from 1991 on, using a unified name for a unified polity. However does that category make sense if he is now back in North Macedonia? On the other hand if he could represent Australia, than in what way would he not be an emigrant? For now I have placed him in North Macedonia emigrants and Immigrants to Australia both because the unified category does not exist and because the issue of how he gained standing with Kosovo is unclear, so his move from North Macedonia to Australia may have been interrupted by time in Kosovo. Do we really want people in both Category:Macedonian people of Kosovoan descent and Category:Albanians in North Macedonia? There might be some people in North Macedonia who identify as "Kosovoan" who also identify as Serbian and not Albanian, but is it enough to justify having 2 distinct categories. On the other hand, are ethnic Albanians whose families have lived in what is now North Macedonia for generations a distinct group enough from those who more recently migrated from Kosovo, especially considering the area is all under 1 overall government until 1991? If they are distinct groups, should we at least make a setup where people would not be in both categories?John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:34, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Albanians from the Ottoman Empire has more than 100 articles, while the other Ottoman-related cats you mentioned have around 10 each. Maybe the other cats should all be deleted as they are redundant. The Chams are not a diaspora but a native population which settled the area in the Middle Ages (before the 11th century). Category:North Macedonia Albanians could contain all North Macedonian Albanians, including those who live abroad. For comparison, Category:Kosovo Albanians and Category:Kosovo Serbs contain people who live abroad. Category:Albanians in North Macedonia could contain only those who live in North Macedonia. In any case, Category:Albanians in North Macedonia can't contain Albanians from North Macedonia who live abroad (including the "Kosovan" ones who are Albanians from North Macedonia with Kosovo citizenship). Ktrimi991 (talk) 18:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the existing Category:Macedonian people of Albanian descent is best for Albanian Macedonian individuals. -- Local hero talk 19:02, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * "Macedonian of Albaniab descent" is misleading as it can be read as X person has Albanian ancestry but ethnic Macedonian identity. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That's an odd interpretation and I don't believe it applies to a single person currently listed in that category. This wording is pretty standard: Category:Greek people of Albanian descent, Category:Albanian people of Montenegrin descent, Category:Albanian people of Macedonian descent, Category:Serbian people of Macedonian descent, Category:Turkish people of Albanian descent, Category:Romanian people of Ukrainian descent, and so on... -- Local hero talk 19:18, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Those cats are pretty standard bc whoever created them did not think twice about what they were doing. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Or maybe better said, those who added articles to those cats added whatever they could add without thinking carefully about what the cat names could imply. A Macedonian of Albanian descent might be an ethnic Albanian from North Macedonia but also an ethnic Macedonian with Albanian ancestry. A Macedonian Albanian can only be an ethnic Albanian from North Macedonia. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The standard naming of those (and many many more) categories is not the work of just one person clearly. Please see Category_names.
 * PS, a Macedonian Albanian is an ethnic Macedonian from Albania (an Albanian Macedonian is an ethnic Albanian from Macedonia). -- Local hero talk 20:18, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Ofc it made sense to them, hence they made the mess. PS: "Macedonian Albanian" redirects to Albanians in North Macedonia. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:25, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok then bring your case to "them". PS Albanian Macedonians redirects to that page as well. Hyphenated ethnicity involves putting the actual ethnicity first and the country adjective second. -- Local hero talk 20:57, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not interested in wasting time with changing the names of some cats or getting them deleted, when those cats are hardly checked by any reader. I was just giving my opinion to the editor who raised the issues. "Croatian Serbs" redirects to Serbs in Croatia. Polish Germans redirects to a page which has links to both Germans in Poland and Poles in Germany. Hence "Macedonian Albanian" is not only used for (Slav) Macedonians in Albania as you claimed. Do not expect more responses from me. I prefer to use my time for better things. Bye, Ktrimi991 (talk) 21:51, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

 * I think since North Macedonia is the name of a country, but is not used to designate an ethnic group that Category:Albanians in North Macedonia is a good name for the category. It makes it clear that the people are Albanian by ethnicity, and are in North Macedonia. I could see an argument for Category:Albanians from North Macedonia. There is precedent for that. Category:People from the Ottoman Empire by ethnicity has about 14 categories that use that form. To understand what is going on you have to keep in mind that these categories were created with a case like Category:American people of Albanian descent. The standard is the person lives in the United States, is a national of the United States, and had ancestors who left the designated area. That does not even always work in the US, for example there is Category:American people of Cerokee descent, which is distinct from Category:Cherokee people. The really messy thing is when you have ethnic minorities in one country who are part of an ethnic group that is the majority in another country named for it. However we do not always do descent. We have Category:Tatar people of Russia, which is placed directly into Category:Russian people by ethnic or national origin. There about half the contents are not in the X people of Y descent category, although it does open up to the alternate problem of some of those categories are going to have contents who are people who never were subjects of Russia no matter how you define that term. For example the Avar People category has many articles on people who lived at a time when Avar lived far beyond the boundaries of Russia. It is still probably better than trying to shoehorn such people into Category:Russian people of Avar descent. We have both Category:Tatar people of Russia (I wonder if it would be better named from) and Category:Russian people of Tatar descent. I am not sure we know which one people belong in, and I am not entirely convinced that if someone is not Tatar enough to be called Tatar, their Tatar ancestry is defining enough to categorize by. When a modern nation includes an area that is part of the long-standing ethnic homeland of a group, we might want to use that model. It might be good if we could agree on if we want to use of/in/from or something. There are other categories with names like Category:Russian Romani people. I am not sure that is a good name for a category at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I just found Category:Ragusan Albanians, which was placed as a child of Category:Albanian people by ethnic or national origin. This was a wrong placing. Albanian people by ethnic or national origin is meant to divide up people who are nationals of Albania, the country, by their "ethnicity" or "national origin". Its most intricate tree is Category:Albanian people of Yugoslav descent. However it is a container category. Through its sub-cats it includes Krsto Aleksov, who may have died in 1918, so I am not sure how he could have descent to a country that was not really formed until the year he died. He was "Albanian" in that he was born in the modern borders of Albania at a time when it was part of the Ottoman Empire. He actually did things causing him to have an article in others places in the Ottoman Empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sterjo Spasse does seem to somewhat fit in Category:Albanian people of Macedonian descent, although he is also in Ethnic Macedonian people. He was a writer who wrote in Albanian, so he had more connection with the country than just residing in its borders. Still the fact that he was born in the Albania just after it gained independence from the Ottoman Empire means his ancestors did not move out of "Macedonia" to "Albania", to what extent they moved it was to different places in the Multi-ethnic Ottoman Empire where people from various ethic groups resided in various places.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:13, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Please start a discussion at Categories for discussion. This is clearly a topic that involves more than just one or two categories and requires input from a variety of editors. -- Local hero talk 20:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It might actually need something more like an RfC. The issue is that there are lots of nuances involved, and it needs to be thought of very broadly.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:36, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Religion
Remove the "82%" in muslim albanians. They make only 59% of the population. Christians make 38% of the population and you should ignore the 2011 census because it was claimed as inappropriate by Council of Europe. 188.172.110.100 (talk) 10:10, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Religion of Albanians
Remove the "Predominately" and "Minority" terms, because it's a very big mistake. Albanians have the largest religious deversity in Europe. 188.172.111.231 (talk) 07:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Albanians