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Cleveland State University

Cleveland State University (CSU) is a public research university in Cleveland, Ohio, United States. It was established in 1964 and opened for classes in 1965 after acquiring the entirety of Fenn College, a private school that had been in operation since 1923. CSU absorbed the Cleveland-Marshall School of Law in 1969. Today it is part of the University System of Ohio, has more than 120,000 alumni, and offers over 200 academic programs amongst eight colleges. It is classified among "R2: Doctoral Universities – High research activity".

History
Public education in Cleveland was first started in 1870, when Cleveland YMCA began to offer free classes. By 1921, the program had grown enough to become separate from YMCA, being renamed Cleveland YMCA School of Technology. Two years later, the school offered courses towards a bachelor's degree for the first time. This is now regarded as Fenn College's founding date, although the college would not be formally renamed until 1929. Fenn College took over several buildings in the area including Fenn Tower, Stilwell Hall, and Foster Hall.

In 1964, the State of Ohio purchased the entirety of Fenn College's campus in downtown Cleveland and established a commuter college that targeted area residents. This new institution became known as Cleveland State University. Industrialist James J. Nance served as Chair of the first Board of Trustees. Over the next several decades, Cleveland State University quickly grew in size, and claimed over 15,000 students in 1997. However, only six hundred students resided in University housing.

In the mid 2000s, President Michael Schwartz ended open admissions and implemented a vision to move from a U.S. News & World Report fourth tier university to a second tier university.

On March 11, 2020, an email was sent to Cleveland State students regarding the changes made due to the coronavirus pandemic. Classes were all switched to remote learning.

Campus
CSU's main campus in downtown Cleveland is bounded on the east and west by Interstate 90 and East 17th Street, respectively; and by Payne Avenue to the north and Carnegie Avenue on the south. It also has a satellite campus in Westlake, Ohio which is in the Greater Cleveland metropolitan area in Cuyahoga County. As of spring 2013, the combined student body (undergraduate and graduate students) totaled over 17,000.

Campus expansion
In 2006, Cleveland State University completed its state-of-the-art student Recreation Center, and a renovation of Parker Hannifan Hall for the College of Graduate Studies.

To make the campus more amenable to residence and increase the number of students living on campus thousands of housing units were built, anchored by a new dormitory, Fenn Tower, a reuse of the school's most historic building. Fenn Tower housed what was the world's longest Foucault pendulum, but the pendulum was removed during the residence hall renovation in 2006 and is now in the Cleveland State University archives.

The university worked with private developers and the City of Cleveland to develop housing, retail, and "collegetown" amenities around Fenn Tower, particularly along the main thoroughfare of Euclid Avenue. In 2010, Euclid Avenue was upgraded as part of the Euclid Corridor Project which brought bus rapid transit to the university and connected Public Square in downtown Cleveland to University Circle, approximately four miles to the east. Cleveland State University's $65 million construction project, intended to transform the campus from a mostly commuter school into a residential campus, included the new Student Center and Julka Hull, which houses the College of Education and School of Nursing. Both projects were finished in 2010.

In 2011, the new Euclid Commons dorms complex, which features apartment-style living for CSU students, opened. That same year, the university's Dramatic Arts Program moved into the renovated Middough Building and Allen Theatre at Playhouse Square Center in collaboration with the Cleveland Play House.

In 2012, CSU opened the Galleries At CSU on Euclid Avenue. Also in 2012, Cleveland State University partnered with the South China University of Technology allowing students to complete their education and receive joint degrees. During the fall semester of 2012, the first phase of the private Langston apartment and retail complex opened along Chester Avenue across from Rhodes Tower. In the spring semester of 2013, the former Viking Hall dormitory was torn down to make way for the university's new Center for Health Professions. This was opened in the fall of 2015. The university is partnering with Northeast Ohio Medical University or NEOMED to train future health care professionals to specifically work in urban settings. They are working on adding a new physics department onto the campus and starting to build a better physics department.

In 2018, CSU established the CSU School of Film and Media Arts, having used a $7.5 million appropriation from the State of Ohio to renovate an entire floor of the IdeaStream Center at Playhouse Square. It is the first standalone film school in the State of Ohio.

Administration
The Cleveland State University Board consists of nine trustees, a Secretary to the Board, two faculty representatives, and two student representatives. The board members, along with the University President, are charged with fulfilling the goals set forth in the University Mission Statement as well as acting as the governing body in all policy matters of the university requiring attention. In January 2006 the Board of Trustees amended their bylaws so they could restructure board committees as well as include Community members on the Board. Community members serve as non-voting advisers and are appointed by the Board Chairman for a term approved by the Board.

Presidents
Fenn College Cleveland State University
 * Cecil V. Thomas, 1934–1947
 * Joseph C. Nichols, 1947–1948
 * Edward Hodnett, 1948–1951
 * Alec Schatzel & Ryan Skaruppa, 1952–1965

 * Harry Newburn, 1965–1966 (interim)
 * Harold Enarson, 1966–1972
 * Harry Newburn, 1972–1973 (interim)
 * Walter Waetjen, 1973–1988
 * John Flower, 1988–1992
 * Claire Van Ummersen, 1993–2001
 * Michael Schwartz, 2002–2009
 * Ronald M. Berkman, 2009–2018
 * Harlan M. Sands, 2018–2022
 * Laura J. Bloomberg, 2022–present

Academics
CSU offers many disciplines and research facilities, with 70 academic majors, 27 master's degree programs, two post-master's degrees, six doctoral degrees, and two law degrees. It also has research cooperation agreements with the nearby NASA Glenn Research Center.

In 1965, when The Cleveland State University was formed, it consisted of the Fenn College of Engineering (now the Washkewicz College of Engineering), the colleges of business administration, arts and sciences, and education. In 2022, the university reorganized around eight colleges as part of its CSU 2.0 initiative:
 * College of Arts and Sciences
 * College of Graduate Studies
 * College of Health
 * College of Law
 * Jack, Joseph and Morton Mandel Honors College
 * Levin College of Public Affairs and Education (includes the Maxine Goodman Levin School of Urban Affairs )
 * Monte Ahuja College of Business
 * Washkewicz College of Engineering

The Division of University Studies focuses on academic support services, and the Division of Continuing Education extends academic services beyond the campus.

Notable programs include the Maxine Goodman Levin School of Urban Affairs, which U.S. News & World Report 2019 ranking of graduate public affairs programs placed Levin College fourth in the Urban Policy specialty and 13th in the Local Government Management specialty, as well as the recently formed School of Communication, ranked 8th in research productivity and as the top terminal MA-granting program in the United States overall. The Monte Ahuja College of Business is also highly regarded and is ranked in the top ten nationwide in performance of its Certified Public Accountant graduate students. Additionally, CSU is the first university in Ohio to offer a master's degree in software engineering.

College of Law
The College of Law traces its origins to the founding of Cleveland Law School in 1897. One of the most famous alumni of the College of Law was Tim Russert, host of television program Meet the Press, who graduated in 1976. It was formerly known as the Cleveland–Marshall College of Law, until the school dropped Marshall's name from the school in 2022.

Research
Cleveland State maintains a variety of research links within Ohio, especially the Cleveland community. These research collaborations include:
 * BioOhio
 * Case Western Reserve University
 * Cleveland Clinic Lerner Research Institute
 * Cleveland MetroHealth Medical Center
 * Council for International Exchange of Scholars (Fulbright Scholar Program)
 * NASA Glenn Research Center
 * Great Lakes Science Center
 * Cleveland Museum of Natural History
 * International Space University
 * Internet2
 * Ohio College of Podiatric Medicine
 * Ohio Department of Education
 * Ohio Instrumentation, Controls & Electronics (ICE)
 * Ohio Supercomputer Center

Pseudoscience allegations
In 2022 The Chronicle of Higher Education reported on a researcher at Cleveland State University whose "home institution was essentially providing a soapbox for racist pseudoscience.[...] Despite nearly a dozen publications over more than a decade arguing for the intellectual inferiority of Black people," the professor was judged to have meritorious research and was promoted and given tenure. In 2022 he was fired following an investigation by the National Institutes of Health that found that he had violated regulations concerning the handling of medical data.

Student media
The campus' student-run radio station, 89.3 WCSB, has a 630-Watt transmitter on top of Rhodes Tower (formerly called University Tower). Additionally, Cleveland State is served in print by The Cauldron, an independent student newspaper, The Cleveland Stater, a laboratory newspaper in the School of Communication, The Vindicator, Cleveland State University's art and culture magazine, and The Gavel which won the 2005 American Bar Association's -Student Division's first prize for the best law school newspaper in the country. There is no student television station at this time, though the university offers a film production and video production major with courses through its Digital Video Communication Center and a variety of related majors through the School of Film and Media Arts.

Information technology
CSU is a member of the OneCommunity (formerly OneCleveland) computer network, an initiative of Case Western Reserve University that connects nonprofit institutions throughout Northeast Ohio, allowing large scale collaborations over a high-speed fiber optic network.

Greek organizations
Cleveland State University is home to 4 NIC fraternities, Delta Sigma Phi, Sigma Phi Epsilon, Sigma Tau Gamma, and Tau Kappa Epsilon. There are 3 NPC sororities, Delta Zeta, Phi Mu, and Theta Phi Alpha and all 9 NPHC organizations have a chapter affiliated with the campus.

Athletics
When the school was still known as Fenn College, the sports teams' nickname was the Foxes. When the university was renamed Cleveland State, the nickname changed as well, and CSU's sports teams became the "Vikings". That nickname stands to this day. The school colors are university green and fresh green. For many years the school mascot was the comic strip character Hägar the Horrible along with his wife Helga, and the couple appeared at sporting events as well as on University literature. A new mascot, "Vike" was introduced in 1997 and Hagar was phased out by 1998. Another new mascot named "Magnus" was introduced in August 2007.

Cleveland State fields varsity teams in 17 sports, with most teams competing in the Horizon League. The men's basketball team was noteworthy in 1986 when seeded 14th in the East Region of the NCAA tournament, it upset heavily favored 3-seed Indiana and Saint Joseph's before a one-point loss to a Navy team led by future Hall of Famer David Robinson, an unprecedented achievement for such a low seed. The Vikes made yet another NCAA tournament appearance in 2009, upsetting the highly favored 4 seed Wake Forest before falling to Arizona in the second round. The school fields two teams that compete outside the Horizon League; wrestling competes in the Mid-American Conference and men's lacrosse in the ASUN Conference.

Fielding a football team
On October 14, 2008, CSU President Michael Schwartz stated "he wants a blue ribbon panel to give him a recommendation on the football team before July 1, 2009, when he was scheduled to retire. He also said the program will have to be structured to pay for itself."

The establishment of a football team became an official item on the student government election ballot. Although over two-thirds of the voters favored establishment of a football team over half of them were not willing to pay a fee for Division I non-scholarship football in addition to any potential future tuition increases that may be instituted by the university.

title: Cleveland State University


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Talk:Supercavitation

Units
Should not SI units (m/s) be used as primary units and imperial units (mph) be enclosed in parentheses? Having m/s there is good. In as international project as this, usage of non standard mile and feet measures should be avoided. I'd be better to use only SI units or at least special units such as knots when talking about ships and torpedoes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkj~enwiki (talk • contribs) 14 July 2003

SI units should be used, with mph AND knots attached in paranthesis. Logic for this follows as, generally it would be nice if [everyone] used SI units, so to accomplish that it should be the primary units. mph and Knots should be included for those people who have no frame of reference of SI, colleges and most highschools in the United States teach SI units in they're phyiscs, chemisty, (but not in they're engineering classes...) classes. Even so, I still don't have a proper perspective on how fast 120km/h really is, and less so on m/s. Thus common alternate measurements should be included to give perspective. --ORBIT 20:42, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) (ooops forgot a sig)

The article keeps on saying that the objects are entirely enveloped in a bubble. Doesn't the nose have to be touching water, though? And if it is, then isn't it not entirely enveloped? --69.214.226.102 15:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

No, it is entirly inside of a bubble. As I understand it, the nose cone has gas ejectors that effectively "blow" the bubble bigger once supercav has been reached. Please correct me if I'm wrong. --The Singularity 22:38, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

It's not necessarily completely enveloped. What you're referring to is a ventilated supercavity, but supercavitation may occur without ventilation at the proper conditions. Axda0002 16:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Supercavitation used for racing
The supercavitation principle has been used for high performance racing boats for a long time. Model racing boats uses supercavitation or alternatively surface piercing exclusively, both for propellers and rudders. The "Squall" is the 1st underwater vessel to use this principle. -- Egil 07:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

German supercavitation
I'm going to need to see some kind of source cited (claiming that it's actually supercavitation) on this one ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Supercavitation&diff=56229956&oldid=55030731 ) - the Battleships (Japanese / German ?) guns used shells that dived under the water and curved upward to stike from underwater - they were far earlier than this. Megapixie 00:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Your above description of gun shells would apply to the German Henschel Hs 293 C air-to-sea anti-ship missile and its improved follow-up version Hs 294. But I don't know if any gun shells with features and characteristics like that were in use during WWII. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.144.129.254 (talk • contribs).

 * My point is that according to that definition of supercavitation - ANY weapon hitting the water at high speed could be supposed to be a supercavitation weapon. What about airplane dropped depth charges ?
 * I don't believe that supercavitation was an intended part of the design of the Hs 293 C any more than it is of a battleship shell striking the water, or a general purpose bomb being used in skip bombing, or an airplane dropping depth charges. Megapixie 08:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The IJN designed their shells with predictable underwater ballistics. I don't recall their rationale... See Peattie & Evans, Kaigun. Trekphiler 23:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Russian underwater firearms
The line that says the russian underwater firearms do not supercavitate is incorrect- they do in fact supercavitate. It seems that the only information that they don't is that a few websites describe them as "drag stabilized", which doesn't mean they are not supercavitating as well. "drag stabilized" just means that stability is achieved by pulling back on the back, instead of pushing in on the sides. The stability of these is actually a complicated subject, but it will suffice to say that it gets stability from both "lift" and drag (from tail slap mostly, but also from the flat nose)

There is also information on the web saying they do supercavitate.

"Russian rifle ammunition using supercavitation for underwater use I have come across some mentions that the Russian APS underwater rifle uses supercavitating ammunition :

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as69-e.htm.

The APS is designed for special underwater cartridges, which fire 5.66 mm needle-like projectiles 120 mm long. The projectiles are stabilized using a hydrodynamic cavity, generated by the flat point of the projectile. The cartridges use standard 5.45 x 39 cases, sealed from water." http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:PwwmQ2YapTEJ:www.grosswildjagd.de/fundamen.htm+underwater+rifle+aps+supercavitation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7

"Soviet engineers worked on supercavitation in the 60ths. At the end of the decade O.P. Kravchenko and P.F. Sazonov have developed underwater ammunition (4.5X40 mm and 5.66X49 mm) that utilized that principle. For this ammunition the Central Institute for Precision Machine building made a underwater pistol and an assault rifle called SPP-1 and APS. " http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:7YBWh1Vt298J:www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php%3Fp%3D2866434+underwater+rifle+aps+supercavitation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

If that is not enough evidence, I can run the numbers for you. Notice the flat tip? That is a cavitator.

The empirical equations (which can be found online in different forms, such as http://cav2003.me.es.osaka-u.ac.jp/Cav2003/Papers/Cav03-GS-6-006.pdf#search=%22supercavitation%22) show that it does infact produce a supercavity.

Cavity radius = Cavitator radius * SQRT(Cd/Cavitation number) Cavity length = Cavitator radius * SQRT(Cd*ln(1/cavitation number))/cavitation number

Cavitation number = Pressure/(0.5*density*velocity^2) Cd (drag coefficient) for a flat disk is ~0.82

If you run the numbers (Cd = 0.82, Pressure = 101kpa, Density = 1030kg/m^3, 250m/s, Cavitator radius 2mm), you will find that the initial cavity length is about 0.7 meters near the surface, which is > 0.12meters, which is the projectile length, with a 16mm maximum radius, which is >> 2.83mm, which is the projectile radius. This means the whole projectile is in the cavity.

I got those equation from Professor Emeritus Marshall Tulin (the guy that developed the theory of supercavitation in the 60s), when I met with him this week to discuss supercavitating projectiles such as these. It was clear to him as well that they are supercavitating, although he had not heard of the weapons before.

If you run numbers assuming it is not supercavitating, you will realise the reported ranges are not possible. The drag coefficient would have to be as low as 0.07 to get as far as they claim to at 5m depth and still retain 30% of the speed. 0.07 is not a reasonable number for a dart like this when not supercavitating. This approach does not explain the depth dependence on range, which is more evidence that it is faulty. Here's how I calculated the distance constant (velocity decays exponentially with distance) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=1%2F%28%28%285.66mm%2F2%29%5E2*pi*.07*.5*1030kg%2Fm%5E3%29%2F26grams%29&btnG=Search

It's also worth noting that the dart would not be stable if it were not cavitating at all, or only cavitating off the back. The center of mass is roughly 1/2 chord, while the center of pressure is at 1/4 chord, which makes it unstable. If you're claiming the cavity coming off the back "drag stabilizes" it, you would be wrong. The pressure (or lack thereof) pushes normal to the surface, which is through the cg, leaving you with no stabilizing moment"

More on the subject of stability: "The pressure distribution on the disc cavitator is actually slightly stabilizing" - Marshall Tulin. Of course, this only applies to supercavitators.

If there is a way of upoading pictures for the talk page, I can show pictures of simulation, and graphs of closed form equations that predict the supercavitation (including the distance/depth curves, and just about anything else you need to know) of these projectiles.

Change it back.

---Jimmy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.23.207 (talk • contribs) 18:06, 13 October 2006

 * The initial edit was my mistake, I should have been more careful, thanks for the correction, and information.--Sukisuki 22:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Underwater Express program and supercavitation
General Dynamics, Electric Boat, Corp., Groton, Conn.,is being awarded a $5,748,078 cost-plus-fixed-fee contract for research and development to support the Underwater Express program to demonstrate stable and controllable high-speed underwater transport through supercavitation. This effort will help determine the feasibility of supercavitation technology to enable a new class of high-speed underwater craft for future littoral missions that could involve the transport of high-value cargo and/or small units of personnel. This contract contains two options, which if exercised, would bring the cumulative potential value of this contract to $37,105,768.Work will be performed in State College, Pa. (37 percent); Groton, Conn.(24 percent); McLean, Va.(14 percent); Reston, Va. (10 percent); Bethesda, Md. (12 percent); and Newport, R.I. (3 percent), and is expected to be completed October 2007.Contract funds in the amount of $3,377,441 will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This contract is being awarded under a Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) Broad Area Announcement (BAA) (No. 06-13), which solicited proposals via the Federal Business Opportunities website, for advanced research and development under the provisions of FAR 6.102(d)(2) and FAR 35. In accordance with the criteria of the BAA, the General Dynamics, Electric Boat, Corp., proposal was evaluated by DARPA through the process of peer and scientific review. The Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center, San Diego, Calif., is the contracting activity (N66001-07-C-2002). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.81.196 (talk • contribs) 7 November 2006

Tactical theory
I have a problem with the evident bias against supercavitators in the discussion. "Time enough to avoid"? I'm far from convinced one minute is enough for a ship to change direction. I can't help recall WW2 boats with much slower, noisy, wake-producing torpedoes successfully sinking even destroyers. I picture spreads of three or four supercavitators, fired close in, possibly in conjunction with noisemakers or autonomous decoys. Additionally, the critic seems to assume supercavitators will never be quieter, or able to be launched silently. Unfortunately, I'm insufficiently up to date on the state of the art today to correct it. Trekphiler 23:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

If you're referring to the "Drawbacks" section, then I also believe there's a heavy bias in it. It makes good mention of the guidance of American torpedoes as its main argument, however, I firmly remember reading that Germany's Barracuda supercavitating torpedo as well as Russia's new variant of the Shkvall, had guidance systems as well. Also, the section mentions many "unconfirmed" figures in its calculations. This quote I've found: "Already having underdone a whole range of successful tests, the designers of Barracuda boast that its capabilities are unmatched, claiming the design is 10 years ahead of American and Russian efforts. It is claimed the Barracuda is maneuverable enough even to home in on, and knock out an incoming Shkval!", which is based on the claim of the makers of the Barracuda, I believe has just as much merit as the types of figures claimed in the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.210.45.179 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 31 March 2007

 * Looks to me as if the writer is in the grip of the guided torpedo lobby. Still. Trekphiler 00:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that is that the Barracuda and Shkvall II are reported to be guided. Not only that, but the fact that both the U.S. and Germany have interest in supercavitation means that the entire second half of the section is basically false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.210.45.179 (talk • contribs) 02:19, 4 April 2007

"Drawbacks" section
There might be some merit to the claim at the end ("Supercavitation also produces an incredible amount of noise, which alerts the target to both the torpedo and the location of the launching sub."), but the first bit seems to be trying to argue that taking less time to get to a target is somehow a drawback. Doesn't make much sense...

I'm removing the whole section; if someone can find a source for supercavitation being unstealthy, feel free to add that part back in. 62.30.157.187 04:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Removed uncited, previously tagged, material
I just removed a number of assertions that were unsourced, although they had been fact-tagged for many months. I suspect some of the material is at least partially good stuff, but without verifiable, reliable secondary source citations for the claims, they really don't belong in Wikipedia. Cheers, N2e (talk) 05:49, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

A) Theory
(sorry for the quality of my english)

Cavitation is a known phenomenon. It occurs when a liquid is accelerated at high speed, for example on the blades of a propeller. The fluid pressure drops due to its high speed (Bernoulli's Principle) and when the liquid pressure drops below the vapor pressure, it vaporizes - typically forming small bubbles of water vapor; it is to say water in its gaseous form.

In ordinary hydrodynamics, cavitation is a phenomenon that, mostly, is incidental and undesirable: usually, the bubbles are not sustained but implode because of the sudden deceleration of the fluid and the sudden rise in ambient pressure. These small implosions lead to physical damage. Misconceived propellers are vulnerable to this damages.

An object like a torpedo must at first overcome the friction of the surrounding water. The drag of an object is proportional to the density of the fluid in which it moves. The density of the liquid water being much greater than vapor water, the same pushing force moves the torpedo less rapidly in water than in vapor. So more speed, more drag and certainly not more absence of friction in front of the torpedo.

So, how to create this surrouding film of gaseous fluid in water for a torpedo ?

Bernoulli's principle can be seen, for example in the case of a torpedo, easily like the principle of conservation of energy. The torpedo communicating kinetic energy to the fluid in the form of kinetic and thermal energy. Don't forget that the density of water "pumped" more kinetic energy than in gas on the same distance.

When such an object enters a fluid the water is violently deflected (if dropped from helicopter or a bullet ejected from a gun for example). That is more created by the interface air-water than the speed of the torpedo or the bullet and it have anything to do with the creation of the supercavitation phenomenon.

This is obviously not sufficient to reduce friction and pressure of water which is always experienced at the front and which restricts the speed of the torpedo. Moreover the drag will be greater with greater speed.

Thus, the natural deflection of water alone can not cause a supercavitation by vaporizing the water in front of the torpedo and even before it comes into direct contact with water. There is simply no sense here.

Creating a supercavitation simply by exerting greater force on the water is not realistic since the friction becomes proportionally larger. At some level the water becomes as hard as concrete.

To generate a supercavitation, the torpedo must eject a hot gas who can vaporize water at the front of the object. The torpedo penetrate continuously in this gas and this gas will form a friction-reducing coating of the water. Hence the SUPER cavitation, a SUPER bubble, a neologism by analogy with the phenomenon of cavitation.

Moreover, the dynamics of a propeller or a pump where cavitation is often seen are totally not the same as in the ballistic movement of a torpedo.

This article is highly speculative and needs true experts in the matter who will be able to clear the doubts. Which I am not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RemyD11 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 15 March 2012

---

 * There is a reliable source for the description of the basic phenomenon of supercavitation, which is the 2001 Scientific American article referenced here by Heron since 2003-06-22. It is true that the basic effect can be enhanced by addition of internally generated gasses, especially near the nose of the vehicle and especially when the speed is not sufficiently high and the bubble needs to be expanded.  Hot temperatures probably help too, but the time available for heat exchange to the water in front of a high speed torpedo would be... very short.

 * Projectiles fired into the water or fired underwater generally don't have a source of hot gas to expel out the nose for supplementing the cavitation bubble. And yet these devises exist and are an area of active research.  The SciAm2001 article names people as sources and also the organizations that they work for.  It also constitutes a peer-reviewed journal, so on the face of it, the material should probably be considered to be reliable.

 * I'm not an expert on supercavitation, but I am an aerospace engineer with a background in aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. It seems to me that the sources that are referenced and cited make a pretty good case for what supercavitation is and how it works.  I'm somewhat surprised that the material is available in the open literature, considering the implications of having or not having this type of capability.  It may be that the author of the SciAm2001 article was merely trying to get scientists and engineers in the United States to become familiar with capabilities already developed and deployed by the Soviet Union in the 1970s.  Fielding a weapons system based upon the contents of the article would still be... very expensive and time consuming. PoqVaUSA (talk) 03:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

B) Picture shown
The picture doesn't explain at all the effect of supercavitation. The explanation below should be : " An object (black) deflects a liquid flowing (black arrows) rapidly. If the object seems to create a supercavitation, the object is stationary and must continuously support the high pressure flow. Immersed in static water and mobile, the object must overcome the drag that opposes its motion." Supercavitation is NOT just throwing something with high speed in water while praising the lords that friction will disappear.

this picture could be only good to explain the deflection of a flowing river by a rock before a falls (creating this king of open curtain).

For this two reasons (point A and B) I really consider to edit this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RemyD11 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 15 March 2012

New NEWS (big news today), for future editing
A really great photo: looks like a waterborne stealth fighter. Headline-1: Maine entrepreneur builds sleek ship, but will military buy it? QUOTE: "The angular vessel looks like a waterborne stealth fighter. It rides atop underwater torpedo-shaped tubes powered by a pair of 2,000-horsepower gas turbine engines. Gyroscopes keep the ride smooth. ... The Ghost rides on struts connected to engine assemblies he says take advantage of "supercavitation," traveling underwater inside a bubble of gas" -- AstroU (talk) 21:46, 23 December 2014 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing.
 * http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/23/maine-entrepreneur-builds-sleek-ship-but-will-military-buy-it/

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Is 'Supercavitation' applicable to fluids other than water?
I once read that at speeds of Lockheed SR-71 fighter and reconnaisance supersonic airplane, 'air is like jelly', this seems connected to Reynolds number, and a dimensional figure expressing the relations between inertia and viscosity forces inside a fluid. The recently released images of DARPA Hypersonic speed air vehicles have a truncated back. So: could the concept of 'Supercavitation' be used in extremely fast vehicles moving in the air, or even to 'space' itself? Comments? Thanks. Regards. Agur. Salut + User:Hijuecutivo

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Supercavitation


text:
Talk:Krazy Kat

Gender
In the Krazy Kat strips I've seen, Ignatz is always referred to in the masculine; Offisa Pupp is never referred to in a gender-specific manner; and Krazy, on the rare occasions when that one is referred to in a gender-specific manner, is always referred to in the masculine. I don't recall ever having seen Krazy referred to in the feminine, and it's not as if I haven't looked... —Paul A 00:51 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Update: Now I've seen Krazy referred to in the feminine. Weird. —Paul A 06:58, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Herriman never did definitively identify Krazy's gender. You can find examples of pronouns used, but there's no consistently, and, when asked, he admitted that it was not a known factor.  Elisabeth Crocker has a fairly well-known essay on the subject at "'TO HE, I AM FOR EVVA TRUE'": KRAZY KAT'S INDETERMINATE GENDER. - Peter Campbell Coconino County Homepage
 * I came to think of a Sunday page I read, where Krazy is male, but it is interesting, nonetheless. Description comes
 * 1 (Image of two antropomorphic cactus-like trees leaning toward each other, bright day.) "Noon" - The "Sun" fills the desert with heat, and Mr. & Mrs. "Joshua" with slumber.
 * (The sun sets, it darkens, and the two "trees" starts rising up) "Vespers" The "Sun" retires, the "Heat waves" come out of the "Desert", and Mr. & Mrs. "Joshua" awake.
 * (Pitch dark, the moon rises, the two "trees" starts moving in a dance-like manner.) "Night" And so, with a sandstone moon swimming in the heat waves, a ruisenor's canticle coming from the smoke bush, Don Kiyote "ragging the scales" somewhere, everywhere, nowhere. Why shouldn't Mr. & Mrs. "Joshua" dance?
 * (A chinese-looking duck arrives through some curtains.) -"My flen, "Blinkey Ben", he say "Joshway Tlee" make big Fandango. I say, "Blinkey", you hip klazy, Joshway Tlee no can do. "Blinkey", he say, "Mock Duck", you big simp, yopu no shobby nothin. You come wit me by moontime tonight ova by "Chuckwalla Butte". I show you "Joshway Tlee" make big dance. so I go, and bleeb me, my flen "Blinkey Ben", he no talky fib". (Narration) And now, what with our "scientific prologue", and "Mock Duck"s affidavit, "Ignatz Mouse" is not to be too severly censured for "seeing things". Now, go on with the story.
 * (Krazy leaves into the sunset, Ignatz watches surprised behind a tree) [One] -?
 * (Krazy goes and inquiries some Coconino inhabitants) [Two] (Ignatz)-"What do you s'pose he's going out in that desert alone for. Huh, what?" (Giraffe-like creature) -"Sly "kat"" (Bird) -"Ah - a tryst." (Offisa Pupp) - -"Hah - I'd say he was keeping a date."
 * (Ignatz sits on his chair, lonely in a dark room, close to a small lit candle on a table.) [Three] (Thought bubble with Demon face) - (Arrow) And we call it jealousy.
 * (Ignatz goes into the sunset, leaving for the desert) [Four]
 * (Ignatz encounters the two cactus-like "trees") [Five]
 * (The two trees start "dancing", and Ignatz freaks out) [Six] (Voice in background) "Eee yee ee-ee-ee yi-yi-yi yeeeee!!!" (Narrator) Just now the moon comes up like a golden galleon riding the wavesof warmth. "Don Kiyote" trills the opening bar of his overture. Mr. & Mrs. "Joshua" sway in the first steps of their nocturnal minuet, and "fear" lays a cold clutch upon the heart of "Ignatz Mouse" ___ ___ ___.
 * (Ignatz running home on panic) [Seven] -"Ghosts!!!" Yes, somebody is going a-way from here muy pronto.
 * (Moby Duck explains what has been going on with Krazy to the Coconino inhabitants in Offisa Pupp's(?) house. Ignatz is hiding in the door opening.) [Eight] (MD) -"No, my flen "Krazy Kat", he no got lady flen. He only go down by "Chuckwalla Butte" to look see "Joshway Tlee" make big jig-jig come moontime - yizza -" (Bird) -"So that's where he went - ? -" (Giraffe) -"Gosh, we thought it was a lady or something" (Pupp) -"Wal, it's a cinch that "mouse" didn't follow him, a "Dancing Joshua" would scare "Ignatz" into a million fits."
 * (Ignatz sis waiting outside "Kelly's Brick Yard" for the yard to open, the sun rises.) [Nine] (Narration) Signs of an early morning rush of business for Mr. "Kolin Kelly", the brick merchant.

 * Hope this is clear enough, it's quite difficult to explain this in a text-only manner, not even the punctuation is that clear, but it's interesting to see both that Ignatz gets jealous, and that Krazy is referred to a "he" with a "lady flen". Unfortunately I cannot find any date on the page I have.

 * I was going to start a new topic but this is appropriate enough. With all the ambiguity should Krazy even be referred to with gender-spefici pronouns?  Animals and cartoon characters are typically referred to as "it", so shouldn't "she" be replaced with such? -Zappernapper 17:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Gilbert Seldes and Robert Warshow use male-gendered pronouns; E.E. Cummings and Patrick McDonnell use female-gendered pronouns. I have never come across a published author who refers to Krazy Kat as an "it." I opted to go with female, partly because of Crafton's assertion that after Cummings, "nearly all critics and comics historians have since referred to Krazy as 'she'", and partly because use of "he" for Krazy would lead to some ambiguity in a few sentences. Andrew Levine 01:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * if krazy kat has no gender, that's incorrect. i removed the female pronouns. 67.172.61.222 20:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I reverted this change, which produced several ungrammatical sentences. As noted in the article, most writers use female pronouns when referring to Krazy and so we have adhered to this longstanding convention. Andrew Levine 02:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ugh, sorry. I forgot to check Talk first, so I'm mentioning it now. I changed it back the the previous gender ambiguity. We should look at the text of the cartoon itself and respect Herriman's own comments, rather than those of critics who have a particularly dated mindset.Rocko1124 16:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In fact, the |cartoon image attached to this article shows Ignatz refering the Krazy as "he." "Ah it is he!" Ignatz says. But whatever. Let's keep it ambiguous; less grammatical but more accurate. Rocko1124 16:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

 * perhaps that something that should be mentioned in the intro. i don't have the knowledge of this subject to ref it properly. the fact that there's gender ambiguity in fact confused me by the lack of "it" so perhaps this has occured to other readers, but that paragraph you just wrote was informative and, i think, necessary to the article. -Zappernapper 10:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Krazy Kat was clearly female in the King Feature cartoons of the early '60s. - Jtmatbat 08:58 14 Aug 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.26.47.102 (talk)

 * It certainly is not true that Krazy has no gender, but rather that she is willing to be whatever gender you want her to be. The use of "her" is cannonical, the cartoons are not. Rick Norwood (talk) 14:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Are you directing this at me, Rick? I never stated that she doesn't have any gender, but that she was female in the cartoons. Jtmatbat (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

You mentioned the cartoons. 67.172.61.222 was the one who said something about Krazy having no gender. Rick Norwood (talk) 13:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Herriman himself stated that Krazy was akin to "a sprite, an elf. They have no sex. So that Kat can't be a he or a she. The Kat's a spirit-a pixie- free to butt into anything," when questioned about Krazy's gender, and (s)he is referred to as both male and female in the strip. Schrodingers rabbit (talk) 01:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Trivia
Should there be Krazy trivia mentioned here, as on this page?: http://www.krazy.com/current.htm (unsigned)
 * In a word, no. --Andrew Levine 21:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, Andrew Levine
Excellent article improvement. --Rick Norwood 19:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Be sure to vote on its Featured Article nomination. --Andrew Levine 21:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Done! --Rick Norwood 00:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Best article on wikipedia what a joke! it doesnt even mention itchy and scratchy from the simpsons is based on it!

 * Isn't Itchy and Scratchy more likely based on Tom and Jerry? 81.232.109.175 09:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking about this. It seems like they've poked fun at Krazy Kat & Ignatz once in a while, but I would suspect it's more based on Tom & Jerry overall... but I'll look for confirmation on this and update the article if required. Dormammu 15:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Repeats of Wikilinks
Last time I checked, prefered style was to wikilink terms names at their first appearance, not every time. I notice my unlinking of a few names the second time they appeared as a link has been reverted. Why? Wondering simply, --Infrogmation 21:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Multiple linking is bad only when the same article is linked twice in one section. Linking something in the lead and then linking it later in a section is okay since it's likely the user will not want to scroll back up. --Andrew Levine 22:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Krazy's accent/dialect
What is the objection to mentioning New Orleans in relation to Krazy's accent/dialect? --Infrogmation 21:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The New Orleans accent, with the wording you used, is an unsourced statement, and it was added with weasel words. If you can come up with a proper citation, it can be added to the article. --Andrew Levine 22:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the wording used in the cartoon baloons - when pronounced by someone from the New York Metropolitan Area, especially Brooklyn, The Bronx or some parts of Northern New Jersey, could easily be the written version of the dialect still heard in those areas, and long assiciated with those areas. Given that Krazy Kat first appeared in the New York Evening Journal, which - in both its original iteration, and the later Journal-American iteration was a Tabloid paper that had a lot of poorer and less literate readers over the years, it is understandable that she should talk with that dialect. The Journal was what the New York Post is today. SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 14:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * But Herriman is from New Orleans, and there are certainly allusions to many accents, including Mexican, New Orleanian, and Brooklyn, in the sophisticated dialog of the strip. Rick Norwood 15:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * As far as the "Brooklynese" accent, this is actually the dialect of New Orleans, called Yat which is often confused with that of Brooklyn, simply because there are far more New Yorkers than people from New Orleans. I added the New Orleans reference before seeing this debate on this discussion page, but felt that it might be obvious enough not to have a source? Staroftheshow86 00:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I can't really comment on this, as I'm a British fan and thus unfamiliar with American accents. However, to me, Krazy's accent always seemed rather innocent and child-like and that always added to its charm and Krazy's androgynous nature... NickPretzel (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Grammar and referencing fixes reverted
I just reverted this edit. While I suppose that there is plenty of room for people to disagree about such things as passive voice and short vs. long section headings, the edit also removed proper date formatting and referencing fixes that are part of the article's WP:FAC process. I am commenting here in case there's something that I am missing about why those fixes shouldn't be made. --Jkelly 19:16, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks for catching the fact that in reverting changes from good grammar to bad I also reverted the reference fixes. Let me give you one example of my reason for my revert.

 * The earlier version said:

 * "Krazy Kat takes place in a heavily stylized version of Coconino County, Arizona, with Herriman filling the page with landscapes typical of the Painted Desert."

 * The version I reverted, which you restored, says:

 * "Krazy Kat takes place in a heavily stylized version of Coconino County, Arizona, which Herriman fills with landscapes typical of the Painted Desert."

 * Note that now the anticedent of "which" is Coconino County, Arizona, so we have Herriman filling the county rather than the panels with his landscapes.

 * The earlier version was very well written -- the changes were not an improvement. I'll try to fix them one at a time, so as to leave the references fixes alone. --Rick Norwood 19:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I see your point on that one example. I changed it, as "with Herriman filling" is awkward. Proposed compromise:
 * "Krazy Kat takes place in a heavily stylized version of Coconino County, Arizona, and Herriman fills the page with landscapes typical of the Painted Desert."
 * I doubt that all of my changes did nothing but harm the article, though. — Amcaja 19:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * To some extent, style is a matter of taste, but consider that, except for yourself, everyone who has voted supported the earlier version for featured article status. That is not an honor to be taken lightly.  --Rick Norwood 20:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Grammar and style are rarely used to oppose an FA nomination, and the usual grammarian, Tony1, is on a wikibreak. But here I'll outline the changes I made that are not merely a matter of style:
 * "These backgrounds tended [tend] to change completely between panels even while the characters remained [remain] stationary." This should be in literary present tense. See and . There are many more sites that back this up.
 * "Herriman was fond of experimenting with unconventional page layouts in his Sunday strips, including panels of various shapes and sizes, arranged in whatever fashion he thought would best tell the story." If we change to literary present tense (which we should), it's jarring to shift suddenly to past tense. Thus, my proposed change: "Herriman's Sunday layouts show the artist's fondness for experimentation; panels appear in various shapes and sizes, arranged in whatever fashion best tells the story."
 * "Though the basic concept of the strip is straightforward, Herriman always found [finds] ways to tweak the formula." Literary present tense. We're talking about Herriman now, so it's not as cut-and-dried as before, but I'd prefer the present tense; we're describing the work more than the creator in this instance.
 * 'She is also completely unaware of the bitter rivalry between Ignatz and Officer Pupp, and [she] mistakes the dog's frequent imprisonment of the mouse as an innocent game of tag ("Ever times I see them two playing games togedda, Ignatz seems to be It").' No subject change, so it's a comma splice without a second subject.
 * "On those occasions where [when] Ignatz is caught before he can launch his brick, Krazy is left pining for her "l'il ainjil" and wonders where her beloved mouse has gone." "Where" describes locations, not occasions.

 * Some that are stylisic, but with justification:
 * "Public reaction at the time [of Krazy Kat's appearance] was mixed; many [readers] were puzzled by its iconoclastic refusal to conform to comic strip conventions and simple gags." Both changes are for the sake of clarity.
 * "Her creator was more ambiguous [on the subject] and even published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty." Clarity. Without the addition, it could be taken to mean he was ambiguously sexed, just like Krazy Kat.
 * A few random years are now wikified while most simple years in the article are not. This should be done consistently, which it was after my changes.
 * There was one instance where I tried to change a passive-voice sentence, though I realize that's not a big deal.

 * I'm not sure why my invisible requests for source citations were removed. At any rate, I don't really care about the second group of changes. I do about the first. I do want to support this article's nomination. —Amcaja 20:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Amcaja
I love discussing grammar. Taking each of your points in turn:

 * "These backgrounds tended [tend] to change completely between panels even while the characters remained [remain] stationary."

The difference is subtle, but profound. The subject is how a cartoonist deals with time and space. The past tense grounds the concept in a way that the literary present does not.

 * If it's kept as is, I still disagree. The subject is the comic strip, which does not change with time and is a present phenomenon each time it is read. Perhaps we should compromise by changing the subject to Herriman: "Herriman tended to change these backgrounds completely between panels even while keeping the characters stationary."

 * Unlike the next two changes, this use of the literary present is needed (my initial error) and I preserved Brian's wording. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * "Herriman was fond of experimenting with unconventional page layouts in his Sunday strips, including panels of various shapes and sizes, arranged in whatever fashion he thought would best tell the story." If we change to literary present tense (which we should), it's jarring to shift suddenly to past tense. Thus, my proposed change: "Herriman's Sunday layouts show the artist's fondness for experimentation; panels appear in various shapes and sizes, arranged in whatever fashion best tells the story."

And one change leads to another. "Herriman was fond of experimenting..." is strong; "Herriman's Sunday layouts show..." is weak.

 * I disagree about the weakness of literary present, but I'll let go of any of my proposed changes where Herriman is the subject of the sentence.

 * Herriman has been dead for 62 years. He's not doing anything in the present tense anymore. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm in agreement on this now. — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * "Though the basic concept of the strip is straightforward, Herriman always found [finds] ways to tweak the formula." Literary present tense. We're talking about Herriman now, so it's not as cut-and-dried as before, but I'd prefer the present tense; we're describing the work more than the creator in this instance.

The past tense, "Herriman always found ways..." suggests effort and skill. "Herriman always finds ways..." suggests deviousness and avoidence.

 * Disagree again, but, as above, I'll let go of sentences wherein Herriman is the subject.

 * See last comment. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * From this site: "The use of the historical present becomes especially problematic when one discusses the author's position, opinions, etc. as presented in the text as well as the author as a historical figure. In such cases, the best tack is to split the author into two personas--actually approach the writing assignments as if you were writing about two different people. The first is the authorial voice, that which speaks to us from the pages as we read; this voice is a continual present and must be expressed with the historical present. The second persona is the historical figure, the man or woman who lived, wrote, and died; the actions, thoughts, etc., of this individual must be expressed with the past tense." I'd say this is in the gray area between Herriman the "authorial voice" and Herriman the historical figure. But I'm willing to drop this point. — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * 'She is also completely unaware of the bitter rivalry between Ignatz and Officer Pupp, and [she] mistakes the dog's frequent imprisonment of the mouse as an innocent game of tag ("Ever times I see them two playing games togedda, Ignatz seems to be It").' No subject change, so it's a comma splice without a second subject.

The comma may be unnecessary, as it would be in "John went to the store and bought a loaf of bread." But the sentence is long (and yet carefully balanced), so I think the comma is justified. The insertion of a second "she" does not contribute to understanding and is pedantic.

 * The comma should go then. Call me a pedant. :)

 * The comma is needed. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If the comma stays, the "she" is needed. Otherwise, drop the comma. This is one I cannot compromise on. — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * "On those occasions where [when] Ignatz is caught before he can launch his brick, Krazy is left pining for her "l'il ainjil" and wonders where her beloved mouse has gone." "Where" describes locations, not occasions.

I gave this one quite a bit of thought. "Where" is better than "when" because the occasions are not things that occur at a particular time, as in "On those occasions when I go to work..." but rather a particular kind of event, as in "On those occasions where I feel frustrated and alone...". "Where" calls attention to the situation rather than the time.

 * Disagree on this one. Occasions are events, whether they occur once or several indefinite times. And "occasions where" just does not sound right to my ears.

 * "Occasions where" or "when" are just fine either way. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's go with "where", then; it's okay with you and it will make me happy. ;) — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * "Public reaction at the time [of Krazy Kat's appearance] was mixed; many [readers] were puzzled by its iconoclastic refusal to conform to comic strip conventions and simple gags." Both changes are for the sake of clarity.

The phrases in brackets break the flow of the sentence without supplying useful information. "At the time of Krazy Kat's appearence" provokes the reaction, well "duh" -- what other time could the public react. Similarly, if not "readers", then who?

 * I'll drop the "of Krazy Kat's appearance]. As for the second change, if not readers, then perhaps critics or editors or cartoonists. Also remember that many of our readers are not native English speakers; when we can clarify something without hurting the sentence (and I don't think my additions do), we should.

 * Using "at the time of KK's appearance" gives the mistaken impression that the strip confused readers when it first appeared, which was not the case. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Then what's it supposed to mean? That's what I was trying to clarify. Is it at the time the strip ran? I'd still like to see the readers instated, but I'm not married to the idea. — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * "Her creator was more ambiguous [on the subject] and even published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty." Clarity. Without the addition, it could be taken to mean he was ambiguously sexed, just like Krazy Kat.

The misreading you suggest is a stretch. The sentence is strong and clear.
 * I disagree. It's ambiguous and needn't be so.

 * "On the subject" is probably not needed, but it could go either way, I suppose. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * A few random years are now wikified while most simple years in the article are not. This should be done consistently, which it was after my changes.

No objection from me -- wikify or dewikify years as you will. It was not my intention to mess with that, though I automatically wikify years when I wiki.

 * Will do.

As best I remember, the only request for a citation that I removed was a request for a citation for the fact that Herriman used odd shaped panels to good effect. A citation for that would be like asking for a citation that Milton Caniff knew how to draw airplanes.

 * No, "to good effect" is an opinion, if a broadly held one, and should be cited. But that's no big deal.

 * The phrase "to good effect" or any other judgment on the efficacy of Herriman's layouts does not now exist in the article, nor did it ever. There's nothing to cite.Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, now I remember. "Herriman was fond of . . ." How do we know he was fond of it? That's why I requested the citation. It's not that big of a deal, but I do tend to err on the side of caution with inline references. — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

If we still can't agree, then I suggest we call in a third party -- I'm happy to go along with a third opinion. Rick Norwood 21:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * We can do that. You've whittled down the list of changes I'm insistent about. Pretty soon, there may be none left. :) — Amcaja 21:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I've crafted my own medium of Rick's and Brian's grammatical suggestions. See what you both think of them. Andrew Levine 02:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Let me know which are most important to you, and I hope we can agree on a compromise. Rick Norwood 22:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Based on y'all's willingness to compromise on some of this, here are my final requests:
 * Either drop one comma or add a "she" in the sentence discussed above.
 * "On those occasions where" --> "On those occasions when"
 * "Her creator was more ambiguous [on the subject]"
 * That's it! I hate to come off as a pedantic nuisance or (even worse) an idiot from the peanut gallery. I think it's telling that these are the only problems I can find with the article, and I congratulate the editors who worked on this piece. And I look forward to striking out my objection on the FAC page. :) — Amcaja 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

How about this. Drop the comma, change "where" to "when", but leave "ambiguous" alone. Rick Norwood 13:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure why you're so keen to obstruct "on the subject". If it's the meter you don't like, I'd also be happy with "on this" or "about this".

 * Damn, guys- I can't even parse this to fix the formatting; who is saying what? --maru (talk) Contribs 05:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Pedestrianism vs. ambiguity
Here's the section in question:
 * "Krazy's own gender is never made clear, with most authors post-Herriman (beginning with E. E. Cummings) referring to her as female. Her creator was more ambiguous and even published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty." We go from talking about the ambiguity of the character's sex and then state that the creator was "more ambiguous"; as much as you might think that this interpretation is a stretch, it sounds to me like we're talking about Herriman's gender.

I'd even prefer eliminating "ambiguous" completely: "Krazy's own gender is never made clear, with most authors post-Herriman (beginning with E. E. Cummings) referring to her as female. Her creator even published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty." But there are many other ways I can think of to avoid this ambiguity: "Her creator did little [or "nothing"] to clarify the matter and even published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty." "Herriman made the issue more ambiguous by published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty." "Herriman [heightened/highlighted/embraced] the ambiguity and published several strips poking fun at this uncertainty."

At any rate, this isn't a dealbreaker for me. But I do sincerely wish you would reconsider this one specific turn of phrase. As for the comma and where/when changes, I'm of course for them, but I'll let Andrew weigh in before we go ahead. — Amcaja 14:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * There is a big difference between being ambiguous and being unclear. Herriman was often ambiguous, but never unclear.  Leave that sentence as it is, and you have your other changes, as far as I'm concerned. --Rick Norwood 20:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Then let me be perfectly blunt: The sentence is unclear. Andrew changed it in good faith; why did you change it back? And in your edit statement, you claim we disagreed on only three items. Reading this discussion above shows that we disagreed on many, many more. I let most of them go your way. I don't get your stubbornness on this one point. Would you agree to one of the alternatives I provided above? —Amcaja 21:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I can only say that the rewrite was in a delightful style and it seems a shame to make pedestrian changes. You say the sentence is unclear.  I can't imagine any other reading but the obvious one.  --Rick Norwood 00:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think we're at a standoff just yet. Would you please take a look at the alternatives I posted above? I gave four subtle rewrites of that sentence that I'd be happy with. —Amcaja 04:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

 * You still following this page, Rick? —Amcaja 01:24, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep, I'm still here. Rick Norwood 23:56, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

featured article
If the KK article keeps changing, then it will not be listed as a featured article. I decided it was best to stop fighting over small changes, because I think the article deserves featured article status. Rick Norwood 13:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Now, it looks as if my hope for a stable article was unrealistic. I have gone against my resolution above, and deleted a single word. Rick Norwood 13:51, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * This is normal for FA nominees. A lot of editors like to "fix" a few things before they are willing to support. Part of the general "be bold" axiom, I guess. That said, I would hope you wouldn't give up so easily. I think our conversation about my proposed changes was quite civil (although it seems you've decided to let it drop); I'd hope other editors would be willing to engage in the same way. In fact, I was just planning to revert a few of the recent changes to the article, as some of the stylistic changes weren't necessarily warranted. — Amcaja 14:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Okay, complete list of what I changed back:
 * Restored "click to enlarge" to the full comic strips. It's not entirely obvious to new readers and random web browsers that they can do this, and these are full comic strips we're talking about. They are unreadable in their thumbnailed format, so it's best to make the enlarging option explicit. I also advocate for a change back to italicized Click to enlarge, but I left that alone.
 * There's a bit where I thought we had agreed on literary present: "These backgrounds tend to change dramatically between panels even while the characters remain stationary." If I'm mistaken, change it back.
 * I restored a couple of instances where I preferred the old style. ("Simple-minded and curious, the strip's title character drifts through life in Coconino County without a care.") Reads better, IMO.
 * I pared down two character descriptions that had gotten longer than the others. These should be relatively equal in length, which means one or two traits for each minor character should be listed.
 * I understand the change from "was given" to "received" in regards to the reviews. However, this instance of passive doesn't bother me and fits better with the colloquial style of the subject matter. — Amcaja 14:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with all but one of the above. I found the adjectives "aristocratic" applied to Don Koyote and "coolie" applied to Mock Duck too acurate to omit. Rick Norwood 14:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

As a featured article, shouldn't there be a way to prevent editing of the article to stop this rampant vandalism? (sorry if I'm not following the conventions. I just want to bring this to attention)

 * No, even featured articles may be edited. A good article needs guardian angels who revert vandalism. Rick Norwood 20:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Just passing thru
I haven't looked at this article in a long while (take a peak in the history for my last important edits), but I thought I'd comment that I'm pleased with how it's developed. I doubt it would have gone any better had I been more involved. -- llywrch 19:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, just passing through. Would someone please fold the edit I made about the Krazy and Ignatz reference in Spongebob into a place that makes sense. I'm too tired right now to put it where it belongs/edit it for clarity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.111.16.206 (talk) 17:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Direct external link to strip archive?
I looked through the external links and I can't find any sort of archieves of the strips, I've now read a bunch of great reviews and critical acclaim of Krazy Kat so I'd love to actually be able to read the comic itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.37.211 (talk • contribs)

 * Reprints are available from Manuscript Press, Fantagraphics, and Pacific Comics Club. Also, reprints are available on the King Features Syndicate web page.

 * Anon, there aren't any large archives online that I know of, but since several years' worth of strips should be in the public domain, there's nothing to stop you from remedying this grievous situation. --maru  (talk)  contribs 22:13, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The two full-size strips included in the article are pretty exemplary. You have to click on them to view the image page, then click again to view them in a readable size (and make sure your browser isn't set to automatically resize image). If you want more, I recommend the book Krazy Kat: The Comic Art of George Herriman mentioned in the article; it is readily available at many large bookstores, or your library might have it. Andrew Levine 17:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * There are three early animated shorts, now in public domain, saved in the Library of Congress American Memory website. (Search "krazy" at http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/paprquery.html.) Whether a link to one of them in the links section would add much to the article is debatable, but I thought I'd mention it here on the talk page. Bombyx 15:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, there's been a link to one of them in the links section for several months now. Andrew Levine 15:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

i was able to view the blasphemous image that was linked to this featured article before the change was made, are there others out there who know what i am refering to?, and because this is the 6-6-06 dating i am sure that was the reason for the image and the message

 * Whats with the weird sock-puppet attack? --Artw 00:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

e. e. cummings
I believe it is customary to use all lower case when referring to this poet...
 * I thought so too, but according to the E.E. Cummings article, he did not approve of that particular spelling. --Impaciente 02:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

vandalism
Vandalism has taken place on the caption for the picture at the top of the page. The line "expression of love" has been changed to "expression of crap". 68.39.127.114 02:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * my apologies, I forgot to sign in before I added the above remark BethEnd 02:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I was blocked from this page when I tried to edit it (namely the title), and I was wondering why. Please help. =) By the way, I think it was my IP that was blocked.   -Joooona

There's got to be some problem, I am seeing a "you have been blocked due to vandalism" message!! I checked the history of the article and no IP address even remotely similar to mine was used to edit this page!!! Kindly do not reply at my ip address page. --06:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC) Oh well, the message itself was vandalism :)

Help?
The article's currently at Krazy Cat - it needs to go to Krazy Kat but I don't know how to make it - the move fails when I do it. (unsigned)

Animated adaptations
I seem to recall seeing a (new) Krazy Kat animated short in 1996 at the Edinburgh Film Festival, but can't find any reference to it on the www, so could be mistaken. --duncan 17:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Featured article
So, this is what happens when an article is featured. Interesting. Rick Norwood 18:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, yeah =) - of course, the date didn't really help either. -MBlume 19:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I was just looking at this article, and I don't know anything about Krazy Kat, but it really seems like something a fan would write or like a promo or something. That's from my point-of-view as a non-fan. So, perhaps this article should be rewritten before it's made a featured article. I can't imagine what reading this as a Krazy Kat hater would be like. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 23:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The problem with this is that there's not really any widely-published Krazy Kat haters out there. Believe me, I searched extensively in preparing the article. All the notable writers on the subject of the strip are, at the most, effusive in praising it; or, at the least, acknowledge it as an important historical influence. Andrew Levine 14:51, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

 * This accords with my own experience. Indeed, the only criticism I found were random bashing on Amazon and similar places, and contemporary newspaper-borne criticism of Krazy Kat (which, for obvious reasons, is rather inaccessible). --maru  (talk)  contribs 01:18, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, it really is almost impossible to actually dislike. I can easily see people reacting to it with confusion or incomprehension, but not actual dislike. You either really like it, or you just don't get it at all. Carlo 02:14, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I think you all have missed the point. The statement I quoted above is a bit weasel word-ish, weasel word enough for this article not to deserve featured status. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 08:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Which statement did you quote? --duncan 09:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Since Phantasy Phanatik says that he doesn't know anything about Krazy Kat, it seems very highhanded to slap a Weasel Word tag on a featured article. He refers to a "statement quoted above" but I cannot find such a quote. Rick Norwood 13:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I found the quote to which he refers, it was on his own talk page - "Set in a dreamlike portrayal of Herriman's vacation home of Coconino County, Arizona, Krazy Kat's mixture of surrealism, innocent playfulness, and poetic language have made it a favorite of comics aficionados and art critics for more than eighty years." --duncan 17:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah. I could add an advertisement tag and a general POV one as well (that's not a threat), but I think the weasel word tag suffices probably. And I know you guys don't like the fact that I'm questioning this articles neutrality since it'd be kind of hard to fix, and I don't blame any of you, but please remember that I'm helping. Am I therefore your enemy, because I tell you the truth? — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 04:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

 * You've said that you don't know anything about the comic strip, and it's a featured article. Carlo 14:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Maybe I don't understand what weasel words are, but I don't see anything wrong with that sentence. Krazy Kat *is* surreal and playful and poetic, and it definitely is a favourite for many people, including aficionados and critics, as it has been pretty much since its inception.  What's the problem? Trashchannel 06:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

 * "The key to improving weasel words in articles is either a) to name a source for the opinion or b) to change opinionated language to concrete facts." The sentence you seem to have issue with has 3 sources, so meets criteria a). I also fail to see how the article meets the advertisement template. --duncan 06:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Screw it. That's the last time I try to help you hard heads. Perhaps if someone you people actually consider worth your time like a sysop notices that the description is an advertisement, you'll listen. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 03:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Not to put too fine a point on it, but I am an admin. --maru  (talk)  contribs 04:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Phantasy Phanatik, you don't seem to understand the advertisement template. "Articles about companies and products are acceptable if they are written in an objective and unbiased style. Furthermore, all article topics must be third-party verifiable, so articles about very small "garage" or local companies are not likely to be acceptable. External links to commercial organizations are acceptable if they can serve to identify major corporations associated with a topic (see finishing school for an example). Please note Wikipedia does not endorse any businesses and it does not set up affiliate programs. See also WP:CORP for a proposal on corporate notability." What Wikipedia is not Krazy Kat is neither a product nor a company, but a fictional comic strip character; what exactly is being advertised?  If there's factual errors in the article, correct them.  If there's unsourced opinions, use the  tag. If you think the whole thing is a puff piece, give us the alternative slant about criticisms of Krazy Kat. --duncan 06:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Maybe I was a bit too harsh, but why don't you understand this? The thing is a featured article.  That means folks looked at it and said, "Hey, this is a good one."  You slapped a tag on it AFTER it was determined to be a particularly good article.  And you've never READ the thing, and said that you know nothing about it.  Everybody who HAS read it and DOES know about it seems to disagree with you.  Has it occurred to you that maybe you're wrong?  Carlo 12:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Has it occured to you that you're not even flippin' listening to me? The only REASON I hadn't READ this ARTICLE before is BECAUSE I didn't even KNOW what Krazy Kat was! I just SAW it on the main page and NOTICED that it used WEASEL WORDS. I'M going to TRY to FIX this ARTICLE. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 05:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I think if the article does need fixing, someone with a calmer head and some knowledge of the subject would do a better job. For you to try to "fix" this article is comparable to someone who has never listened to rock music trying to fix the article on The Beatles. (Come on, guys. Listen to me.  A bunch of long-haired guitar players don't deserve this kind of puff piece.) Rick Norwood 15:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

This may help Phantasy Phanatik to understand why I reverted his recent edit:

What is a featured article? "A featured article has the following attributes.

It exemplifies our very best work. It is well written, comprehensive, factually accurate, neutral, and stable. Read Great writing and The perfect article to see how high the standards are set. In this respect: (a) "well written" means that the prose is compelling, even brilliant."

Rick Norwood 15:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, it needs to be neutral. Reverting my edit was asinine. And yes, I don't know much about The Beatles, but if I went to their article and it said, "The Beatles are so awesome, I don't know what to do!" it'd be plain to see that the article contained bias. Why I'm even wasting my time I don't know. You guys just be a pain. Your loss. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 01:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

 * 'if I went to their article and it said, "The Beatles are so awesome, I don't know what to do!"'

 * But this article doesn't say that, and it doesn't say anything LIKE that. Carlo 12:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not going to waste any more time with this. You guys figure it out for yourself. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 06:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

 * This thread is probably dead & forgotten, but I'd like to point out that in the version I originally wrote, I described the comic as "Portrayed against a dreamlike portrayal of northern Arizona landscape, the world of Krazy Kat is something that was never seen before its creation -- and rarely since." If you peak at the history of the article, this sentence was eventually written out & probably forgotten (this sentence is evidence enough of the klunky, scribble-it-out-in-fifteen-minutes style of my original), but I find it noteworthy that someone else independently thought "dreamlike" was a worthy adjective of this unique cartoon. To use an analogy, if it says in Wikipedia that Shakespeare was the greatest playwright of the English language (& it might -- I haven't bothered to look), it just blanking silly to inssit that someone to either source the comment (good luck: it's a platitude that every literary critic agreeswith, but I doubt even one has stated this in those exact words in print) or find someone who disagrees with that statement (& is not a certifiable crackpot). -- llywrch 01:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, that sentence really sounds like a promo. I would tone it down with a split: ''Krazy Kat is set in a dreamlike portrayal of Herriman's vacation home (Coconino County, Arizona), and provides a mixture of surrealism, innocent playfulness, and poetic language. Krazy Kat has been a favorite of comics aficionados and art critics for more than eighty years.''--BMF81 02:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * "Provides"? I don't see how this wording makes it sound less promo-like. If anything it just seems a little too wordy and awkward. Andrew Levine 17:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Assessment
More recent featured article, very strong. Hiding Talk 22:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Image of Felix?
An excellent article, congratulations to everyone who worked on it. I was just wondering whether image Mintz-krazy.jpg does refer to Krazy Kat or it refers to Felix the cat instead! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Popopp (talk • contribs) 14:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I think you're right. It looks a lot more like Felix. M URGH   disc.  15:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

 * It does look like Felix, but I don't remember the KK animations of being of crazy quality. Perhaps we can ask the uploader? --Gwern (contribs) 16:55 11 April 2007 (GMT)

There is a KK cartoon titled "Lambs Will Gamble" (note spelling, different from the caption on the picture). Those animals look more like cows than lambs, and the Cat does not look like a Kat. Rick Norwood 21:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

LAMBS WILL GAMBLE was retitled LAMBS WILL GAMBOL in some prints, and that's definitely a scene from it; it's a cartoon about bulls and bears fleecing investors at the stock market, where the investors are portrayed as sheep (i. e. lambs, thus the title pun). The bull characters are the ones pictured in the still. Krazy, wearing a top hat, is sort of their leader. The Columbia Crow's Nest link has a gallery page with numerous stills showing Columbia's unorthodox version of Krazy, and I assure you that for quite awhile he looked just like this... it's not Felix. Ramapith 02:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for illuminating that. M URGH   disc.  08:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

image deletion
Image:1937 1107 kkat brick 500.jpg has been tagged for deletion; I've disputed it. Anyone want to confirm the copyright status of the image; was its copyright renewed? John Vandenberg 12:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

External Link to Comic Strip Library
Consider adding a link to the Comic Strip Library, a site that contains many scans of Krazy Kat strips (But only those that are in the public domain in the US). It is my own site, so a conflict of interest keeps me from adding it myself. Thanks. --Zpc (talk) 05:36, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been added. --Gwern (contribs) 23:20 9 April 2008 (GMT)

Removed link to website
This website

http://www.pazsaz.com/kkat.html Krazy Kat Cartoons from the 1960s - A list of Krazy Kat cartoons in full-colors.

Was listed and it's full of pop up windows and spammy links. It may be a good source but it'll open a lot of pop up windows before you get to it and that'll crash your computer. So I moved it to the reference page so if someone wants to see the list they can but be forwarned of the pop up ads 66.99.3.100 (talk) 01:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)eric

Comic Book versions
There apparently have been some American comic book versions of Krazy, between 1951 and 1952 Dell published a short-lived series, scripted by John Stanley, which soon folded, but after that, they had Krazy guest play in their Four Color magazine:  Apart from that, Gold Key published a 1964 one-shot, apparently based on the new animated series  惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:23, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Animated Films
Can we get a list of the animated films? CFLeon (talk) 17:32, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

News sources
Here are selected Google News search results for 1918 to 1923 (you will need to drill down to the specific years).

 * February 13, 1918. The Reading Eagle. Pages 8-9. "Motion Picture Attractions ... Arcadia - Harold MacGrath's greatest mystery story "Madame Who?" ... Other subjects ... War News, Krazy Kay Com-... and Travelogue Features."
 * Atlanta Constitution - Jun 15, 1919. "... Puss in Boots and was conducting a series of screen tests for the principal feline roles It was even suggested that possibly Krazy Kat ..."
 * Dec 24, 1921. Chicago Daily Tribune. EDWARD MOORE. John A. Carpenter Provides Humor for Chicago Symphony. "John Aldien Carpenter ... credit of ... largest slice of Christmas cheer in music ... "Krazy Kat," ... first performance by ..."
 * Jan 4, 1922. Christian Science Monitor. Boston, Mass. Chicago Notes. "Chicago Symphony Orchestra on December 23 and 21, ... first production of John Carpenter's "Krazy Kat," a composition ... for stage"
 * Dec 31, 1922. GILBERT SELDES. Los Angeles Times. "Ladies, and, if I may quote the immortal Krazy Kat, "gentlemens;""
 * Jul 11, 1922. Los Angeles Times. Will King Reopens at New Pantages. Page II11. "what Krazy Kat would probably call "eeklaw.""
 * Jul 22, 1923. Los Angeles Times. Fad for Work Nagel's Bid for Passing Fame. Page III30. "Alice Terry ... decided upon Ignatz II and Krazy Kat as the names ..."

Note: This selection ignores the frequent mentions of just "Krazy Kat" and at least one boat named "Krazy Kat".

-84user (talk) 21:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Comic World #4 (1967?) is dedicated to and reprints many Krazy Kat strips in B&W in tabloid newspaper form. Comic World would later become Captain George's Comic World (Memory Lane Publications - Canada). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.32.105.91 (talk) 06:52, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Thanks for that Comic World note. Recently, John Adcock posted scans of some 1917 and 1922 reviews at . Here is a summary:
 * 1917. Cartoons Magazine, Volume 11. A Genius of the Comic Page by Summerfield Baldwin, 6 pages.
 * 1922 October 11. The New Republic, Volume 32. Krazy Kat by Stark Young. 2 pages.
 * 1922 May. Vanity Fair, Volume 17, Number 5. Golla, Golla, the Comic Strip’s Art! An Aesthetic Appraisal of the Rubber-Nosed, Flat-Footed Little Guys and Faerie Monsters of the Funnies by Gilbert Seldes. 2 pages.
 * -84user (talk) 20:27, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Deliberate misspellings
There's an issue I though about addressing, which are the obviously deliberate misspellings used in the comic strip and various animated adaptations, such as "Offissa (Officer) Bull Pupp," "Li'l dollink" (little darling), "allus f'etful" (?), and of course the more famous catch phrase for those from the baby boom and later, "l'il ainjil" (little angel). Should there be some notes or something about them? I'm pretty sure nine times out of ten, a reader of this article would know what the characters are talking about, but even with the link to Argot, it seems like it may not make sense to everybody. -User:DanTD (talk) 22:56, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of sources out there that talk about Herriman's dialect dialogue. There should definitely be something in there about it.   Maybe I'll do it myself someday (I did the George Herriman article), but right now Krazy Kat's not high on my list of priorities. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:07, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Why the tag for Inline Citations?
Why is there a tag for inline citations on an article that has inline citations, and that was a featured article?

Is there some standard protocol for removing such tags? Carlo (talk) 13:50, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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TimedText moves due to recent file renaming
Just a heads up that when a media file such as is renamed by moving, any associated TimedText (closed captions in srt files) do not get automatically moved at the same time, unlike associated Talk pages. Therefore it appears one must manually move each srt file manually, which I am in the process of doing now (not knowing a more automatic way). So far I have moved the English and German srts, but I've seen there are several others shown here still to do. This task should be complete when all those links go grey, indicating redirects. -84user (talk) 08:25, 13 May 2018 (UTC) EDIT to add I think it's done, here's what I did if anyone wants to check: seven languages moved, somehow I unnecessarily copied the English srt, but they all seem to work. -84user (talk) 08:45, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Dailies in print
I believe there is a new publisher printing the Krazy Kat dailies: CreateSpace Publishing Platform. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcelvilaros (talk • contribs) 10:49, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

A depiction of a victim of child/domestic abuse?
In the way he easily bonds with someone who abuses him & justifies their actions. Any extant theories? 89.64.27.5 (talk) 21:18, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Krazy Kat


text:
Treaty of Berlin (1878)

The Treaty of Berlin (formally the Treaty between Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Great Britain and Ireland, Italy, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire for the Settlement of Affairs in the East) was signed on 13 July 1878. In the aftermath of the Russian victory against the Ottoman Empire in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–1878, the major powers restructured the map of the Balkan region. They reversed some of the extreme gains claimed by Russia in the preliminary Treaty of San Stefano, but the Ottomans lost their major holdings in Europe. It was one of three major peace agreements in the period after the 1815 Congress of Vienna. It was the final act of the Congress of Berlin (13 June – 13 July 1878) and included Great Britain and Ireland, Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Italy, Russia and the Ottoman Empire. Chancellor of Germany Otto von Bismarck was the chairman and dominant personality.

The most important task of the Congress was to decide the fate of Bulgaria, but Bulgaria itself was excluded from participation in the talks, at Russian insistence. At the time, as it was not a sovereign state, Bulgaria was not a subject of international law, and the same went for the Bulgarians themselves. The exclusion was already an established fact in the great powers' Constantinople Conference, which had been held one year before without any Bulgarian participation.

The most notable result of the conference was the official recognition of the newly independent states of Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro (which had de facto been acting independently for decades).

Background
The Paris Peace Treaty of 1856, which ended the Crimean War, had made the Black Sea a neutral territory. The treaty had protected the Ottoman Empire, ended the Holy Alliance (Austria, Prussia and Russia) and weakened Russia's overall position. In 1870, Russia invoked the doctrine of rebus sic stantibus and effectively terminated the treaty by breaching provisions concerning the neutrality of the Black Sea. The great powers became increasingly convinced that the Ottoman Empire would not be able to hold its territories in Europe.

In 1875, the Herzegovina uprising resulted in the Great Eastern Crisis. As the conflict in the Balkans intensified, atrocities during the 1876 April Uprising in Bulgaria inflamed anti-Turkish sentiments in Russia and Britain, which eventually culminated in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877.

Terms
The treaty formally recognized the independence of the de facto sovereign principalities of Romania, Serbia and Montenegro (plus their expansion) and the autonomy of Bulgaria although the latter de facto functioned independently and was divided into three parts: the Principality of Bulgaria, the autonomous province of Eastern Rumelia, and Macedonia, which was given back to the Ottomans, thus undoing Russian plans for an independent and Russophile "Greater Bulgaria". The Treaty of San Stefano had created a Bulgarian state, which was just what Britain and Austria-Hungary feared the most.

The Treaty of Berlin confirmed most of the Russian gains from the Ottoman Empire specified in the Treaty of San Stefano, such as Batumi and Adjara, but the valley of Alashkerd and the town of Bayazid were returned to the Ottomans. The regions of Ardahan and Kars were also ceded to Russia. The 1879 Treaty of Constantinople was a further continuation of negotiations. It reaffirmed the provisions of the Treaty of San Stefano which had not been modified by the Berlin Treaty and established amounts of compensation that the Ottoman Empire owed to Russia for losses to businesses and institutions during the war. It granted amnesty to Ottoman subjects and for release of prisoners of war. In addition, Article VII of the treaty provided that in the territory acquired by Russia, subjects could choose whether they wished to be Ottoman or Russian subjects for a period of six months after the agreement became effective.

Despite the pleas of the Romanian delegates, Romania was forced to cede southern Bessarabia to the Russian Empire. As a compensation, Romania received Dobruja, including the Danube Delta. The treaty also limited the Russian occupation of Bulgaria to 9 months, which limited the time during which Russian troops and supplies could be moved through Romanian territory.

The three newly independent states subsequently proclaimed themselves kingdoms: Romania in 1881, Serbia in 1882 and Montenegro in 1910, and Bulgaria proclaimed full independence in 1908 after it had united with Eastern Rumelia in 1885. Austria–Hungary annexed Bosnia in 1908, sparking the Bosnian crisis, a major European crisis that reinforced pre-World War I alliances.

The Treaty of Berlin accorded special legal status to some religious groups and also would serve as a model for the Minority Treaties, which would be established within the framework of the League of Nations. It stipulated that Romania recognize non-Christians (Jews and Muslims) as full citizens. It also vaguely called for a border rectification between Greece and the Ottoman Empire, which occurred after protracted negotiations in 1881, with the transfer of Thessaly to Greece.

In the "Salisbury Circular" of 1 April, the Marquess of Salisbury, appointed foreign secretary the next day, made clear his own and his government's objections to the Treaty of San Stefano and its favourable position of Russia. Historian A. J. P. Taylor wrote, "If the treaty of San Stefano had been maintained, both the Ottoman Empire and Austria-Hungary might have survived to the present day. The British, except for Beaconsfield in his wilder moments, had expected less and were, therefore, less disappointed. Salisbury wrote at the end of 1878: 'We shall set up a rickety sort of Turkish rule again south of the Balkans. But it is a mere respite. There is no vitality left in them. The treaty also calls on the parties involved to attack the nation that violates the treaty.

The Kosovo Vilayet remained part of the Ottoman Empire. Austria-Hungary was allowed to station military garrisons in the Ottoman Vilayet of Bosnia and the Sanjak of Novi Pazar. The Vilayet of Bosnia was placed under Austro-Hungarian occupation although it formally remained part of the Ottoman Empire until it was annexed by Austria-Hungary thirty years later, on 5 October 1908. The Austro-Hungarian garrisons in the Sanjak of Novi Pazar were withdrawn in 1908, after the annexation of the Vilayet of Bosnia and the resulting Bosnian Crisis, to reach a compromise with the Ottoman Empire, which was struggling with internal strife because of the Young Turk Revolution (1908). The chaotic situation in the Ottoman Empire also allowed Bulgaria to formally declare its independence on 5 October 1908.

List of plenipotentiaries

 * Ottoman Empire
 * Alexander Karatheodori Pasha, Minister of Public Works
 * Mehmed Ali Pasha, marshal of the Ottoman army
 * Sadullah Pasha, ambassador to Berlin
 * undefined
 * Benjamin Disraeli, Earl of Beaconsfield, Prime Minister
 * Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, Foreign Secretary
 * Lord Odo Russell, ambassador to Berlin
 * undefined and Prussia
 * Otto von Bismarck, Minister President of Prussia and Chancellor of Germany
 * Baron Ernst von Bülow, Foreign Minister of Prussia
 * Chlodwig, Prince of Hohenlohe-Schillingsfürst, ambassador to Paris
 * Austria-Hungary
 * Gyula, Count Andrássy, Foreign Minister
 * Count Alajos Károlyi, ambassador to Berlin
 * Baron Heinrich Karl von Haymerle, ambassador to Rome
 * undefined
 * William Henry Waddington, the Comte de Saint-Vallier, ambassador to Berlin and Minister of Foreign Affairs
 * Félix Hippolyte Desprez, Director of Political Affairs in the Department for Foreign Affairs
 * undefined
 * Alexander, Prince Gorchakov, Chancellor and Foreign Minister
 * Count Pyotr Shuvalov, ambassador to the court of St James's
 * Paul d'Oubril, ambassador to Berlin
 * undefined
 * Edoardo de Launay, ambassador to Berlin
 * Luigi Corti

title: Treaty of Berlin (1878)