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Pattern Recognition (novel)

Pattern Recognition is a novel by science fiction writer William Gibson published in 2003. Set in August and September 2002, the story follows Cayce Pollard, a 32-year-old marketing consultant who has a psychological sensitivity to corporate symbols. The action takes place in London, Tokyo, and Moscow as Cayce judges the effectiveness of a proposed corporate symbol and is hired to seek the creators of film clips anonymously posted to the internet.

The novel's central theme involves the examination of the human desire to detect patterns or meaning and the risks of finding patterns in meaningless data. Other themes include methods of interpretation of history, cultural familiarity with brand names, and tensions between art and commercialization. The September 11, 2001 attacks are used as a motif representing the transition to the new century. Critics identify influences in Pattern Recognition from Thomas Pynchon's postmodern detective story The Crying of Lot 49.

Pattern Recognition is Gibson's eighth novel and his first one to be set in the contemporary world. Like his previous work, it has been classified as a science fiction and postmodern novel, with the action unfolding along a thriller plot line. Critics approved of the writing but found the plot unoriginal and some of the language distracting. The book peaked at number four on the New York Times Best Seller list, was nominated for the 2003 British Science Fiction Association Award, and was shortlisted for the 2004 Arthur C. Clarke Award and Locus Awards.

Background
Before writing Pattern Recognition, the author, William Gibson, published seven novels (one co-written) and numerous short stories beginning in 1977. His previous novel, All Tomorrow's Parties, was published in October 1999 as the conclusion of the Bridge trilogy. Pattern Recognition was written between 2001 and 2002 while Gibson was living in Vancouver, British Columbia and released in February 2003. Pattern Recognition was originally intended to be a stand-alone novel, but afterwards Gibson wrote Spook Country and Zero History which take place in the same universe and use some of the same characters.

Gibson traveled to Tokyo in 2001 to prepare for this new novel, which takes place in London, Moscow, and Tokyo. He did not travel to London or Moscow but used interviews with friends and internet resources for research. In September 2001 Gibson had written about 100 pages but was struggling to finish. He stopped writing after watching the September 11, 2001 attacks on television and "realized [the novel] had become a story that took place in an alternate time track, in which Sept. 11 hadn't happened". He considered abandoning the novel but a few weeks later re-wrote portions to use the attacks as a motivating factor for the distress the main character feels. In a 2003 interview he said, "There I was, in the winter of 2001, with no idea what the summer of 2002 was going to be like. ... In the original post-9/11 draft, London felt more like London is feeling right now. Cayce keeps seeing trucks full of soldiers. But I took that out, because as it got closer to the time, it wasn't actually happening."

Plot summary
Advertising consultant Cayce Pollard, who reacts to logos and advertising as if to an allergen, arrives in London in August 2002. She is working on a contract with the marketing firm Blue Ant to judge the effectiveness of a proposed corporate logo for a shoe company. During the presentation, graphic designer Dorotea Benedetti becomes hostile towards Cayce as she rejects the first proposal. After dinner with some Blue Ant employees, the company founder Hubertus Bigend offers Cayce a new contract: to uncover who is responsible for distributing a series of anonymous, artistic film clips via the internet. Cayce had been following the film clips and participating in an online discussion forum theorizing on the clips' meaning, setting, and other aspects. Wary of corrupting the artistic process and mystery of the clips, she reluctantly accepts. Cayce is not entirely comfortable with Ivy's chat group called "Fetish:Footage:Forum" (or F:F:F), as shown by the following excerpt:

"There are perhaps twenty regular posters on F:F:F, and some much larger and uncounted number of lurkers. And right now there are three people in Chat, but there's no way of knowing exactly who until you are in there, and the chat room she finds not so comforting. It's strange even with friends, like sitting in a pitch-dark cellar conversing with people at a distance of about fifteen feet."

A friend from the discussion group, who uses the handle Parkaboy, privately emails her saying a friend of a friend has discovered an encrypted watermark on one clip. They concoct a fake persona, a young woman named Keiko, to seduce the Japanese man who knows the watermark code. Cayce, along with an American computer security specialist, Boone Chu, hired to assist her, travels to Tokyo to meet the man and retrieve the watermark code. Two men attempt to steal the code but Cayce escapes and travels back to London. Boone travels to Columbus, Ohio to investigate the company that he believes created the watermark. Meanwhile, Blue Ant hires Dorotea who reveals that she was previously employed by a Russian lawyer whose clients have been investigating Cayce. The clients wanted Cayce to refuse the job of tracking the film clips and it was Dorotea's responsibility to ensure this.

Through a completely random encounter Cayce meets Voytek Biroshak and Ngemi, the former an artist using old ZX81 microcomputers as a sculpture medium, the latter a collector of rare technology (he mentions purchasing Stephen King's word processor, for example). Another collector, and sometime 'friend' of Ngemi's, Hobbs Baranov, is a retired cryptographer and mathematician with connections in the American National Security Agency. Cayce strikes a deal with him: she buys a Curta calculator for him and he finds the email address to which the watermark code was sent. Using this email address Cayce makes contact with Stella Volkova whose sister Nora is the maker of the film clips.

Cayce flies to Moscow to meet Stella in person and watch Nora work. Nora is brain damaged from an assassination attempt and can only express herself through film. At her hotel, Cayce is intercepted and drugged by Dorotea and wakes up in a mysterious prison facility. Cayce escapes; exhausted, disoriented and lost, she nearly collapses as Parkaboy, who upon Cayce's request was flown to Moscow, retrieves her and brings her to the prison where the film is processed. There Hubertus, Stella and Nora's uncle Andrei, and the latter's security employees are waiting for her. Over dinner with Cayce, the Russians reveal that they have been spying on her since she posted to a discussion forum speculating that the clips may be controlled by the Russian Mafia. They had let her track the clips to expose any security breaches in their distribution network. The Russians surrender all the information they had collected on her father's disappearance and the book ends with Cayce coming to terms with his absence while in Paris with Parkaboy, whose real name is Peter Gilbert.

Characters

 * Cayce Pollard – A 32-year-old woman who lives in New York City. She pronounces her given name "Case" although her parents named her after Edgar Cayce. She uses her interest in marketing trends and fads, and her psychological sensitivity to logos and advertising, in her work as an advertising consultant. Her sensitivity becomes a phobia towards older corporate mascots, especially the Michelin Man. She wears only black, gray or white, usually Fruit of the Loom shrunken cotton T-shirts (all tags removed) with Levis jeans (with the trademarks filed off the buttons) or skirts, tights, boots, as well as a black Buzz Rickson MA-1 bomber jacket. (Buzz Rickson did not produce the MA-1 in black, but due to demand created by the novel, began offering a "William Gibson collection" black MA-1. )
 * Hubertus Bigend – The 35-year-old founder of advertising agency Blue Ant. He was born in Belgium but educated at a British boarding school and at Harvard University.
 * Dorotea Benedetti – The representative of the graphic design company. She has a background in industrial espionage and is secretly hired to encourage Cayce to leave London without accepting Bigend's offer to track the film clips.
 * Bernard Stonestreet – A representative of the advertising agency Blue Ant.
 * "Parkaboy"/Peter Gilbert – Cayce's friend from the online discussion forum. He lives in Chicago and describes himself as a "middle-aged white guy since 1967".
 * Boone Chu – A Chinese-American living in Washington state, but raised in Oklahoma. He had a failed start-up company specializing in security. He is hired to assist Cayce in the search for the maker of the footage.
 * Voytek Biroshak – A blond man born in Poland and raised in Russia. He acquires and sells antique calculators to raise funds for an exhibition on Sinclair ZX81 computers.
 * Damien Pease – A 30-year-old friend of Cayce whose flat she stays at while in London. He is a video director shooting a documentary on WWII battleground excavation near Stalingrad.
 * Hobbs Baranov – A former NSA cryptographer and mathematician. He collects antique calculators and sells intelligence as he squats near Poole with a Gypsy group.
 * Ivy – Creator of website, discussion group, and chatroom Fetish:Footage:Forum that Cayce frequents. The website's intention is to discuss the anonymous film postings.

Style and story elements
The novel uses a third-person narrative in the present tense with a somber tone reminiscent of a "low-level post-apocalypticism". Cayce's memories of the September 11, 2001 attacks, which briefly use the future tense, are told by Gibson as "a Benjaminian seed of time", as one reviewer calls it, because of the monistic and lyrical descriptions of Cayce's relationship to objects with the attacks in the background. Two neologisms appear in the novel: gender-bait and mirror-world. Gibson created the term mirror-world to acknowledge a locational-specific distinction in a manufactured object that emerged from a parallel development process, for example opposite-side driving or varied electrical outlets. Gender-bait refers to a male posing as a female online to elicit positive responses. The term coolhunter, not coined by Gibson but used in the marketing industry for several years, is used to describe Cayce's profession of identifying the roots of emerging trends.

The September 11, 2001 attacks are used as a motif representing a break with the past with Cayce's father, who disappears during the attacks, as the personification of the 20th century. Gibson viewed the attacks as a nodal point after which "nothing is really the same". One reviewer commented that in "Gibson's view, 9-11 was the end of history; after it we are without a history, careening toward an unknown future without the benefit of a past—our lives before 9-11 are now irrelevant." Cayce's search for her father and Damien's excavation of the German bomber symbolize the historicist search for a method to interpret people's actions in the past. Coming to terms with her father's disappearance may be interpreted as a requiem for those lost to the 20th century, something that may have been influenced by Gibson coming to terms with the loss of his own father.

The film clips are a motif used to enhance the theme of the desire to find meaning or detect patterns. They are released over the internet and gain a cult following, in the same way that the lonelygirl15 videoblog gained an international following in 2006. Corporate interest in the footage is aroused by its originality and global distribution methods. The characters debate whether the anonymous clips are part of a complete narrative or a work in progress, and when or where they were shot. This enigmatic nature of the footage is said to metaphorically represent the nature of the confusing and uncertain post-9/11 future. The author Dennis Danvers has remarked that the footage being edited down to a single frame is like the world compressed into a single novel. The footage, released freely to a global audience with a lack of time or place indicators, has also been contrasted to Pattern Recognition written under contract for a large corporation and which uses liminal name-dropping that definitively sets it in London, Tokyo, and Moscow in 2002.

Pattern recognition
The central theme throughout the novel involves the natural human propensity to search for meaning with the constant risk of apophenia. Followers of the seemingly random clips seek connections and meaningfulness in them but are revealed to be victims of apophenia as the clips are just edited surveillance camera footage. Likewise, Cayce's mother turns to investigating electronic voice phenomena after Cayce's father disappears. Science fiction critic Thomas Wagner underscores the desire for meaning, or pattern recognition, using a comparison between the film clips and Cayce's search for her father after the attacks: "[T]he very randomness and ineffability of the clips flies in the face of our natural human tendency towards pattern recognition ... [T]he subculture that surrounds 'following the footage' ... [is] an effective plot device for underscoring the novel's post-9/11 themes: to wit, the uncertainty of the fabric of day-to-day life people began to feel following that event … [We] as people don't like uncertainty, don't like knowing that there's something we can't comprehend. And if we can't fit something into an existing pattern, then by golly we'll come up with one." Within the marketing world, Cayce is portrayed not as an outside rebel, but rather a paragon of the system. Inescapably within the system, she seeks an epistemological perspective to objectively interpret patterns. The review in The Village Voice calls this search "a survival tactic within the context of no context—dowsing for meaning, and sometimes settling for the illusion of meaning".

Memory of history
Using 20th-century relics, such as a Curta calculator, an excavated Stuka, Hobbs Baranov, and Voytek's planned ZX81 show, Gibson raises the question of how a contemporary society views past societies. Gibson portrays the past century as dominated by conflict, suspicion, and espionage. Following the disappearance of Cayce's father, a designer of embassy security systems, on September 11, 2001, Cayce is left feeling "ungrieved" until she reviews footage and records of that day tracking his movements until he vanishes.

Following this line of thought Gibson raises the question of how the future will view today's society. The novel "adopts a postmodern historicism" perspective, through the arguments presented by Bigend, Cayce, and Parkaboy. Bigend and Cayce's view of history are compared to those of philosopher Benedetto Croce in that they believe history is open for interpretation when re-written from the frame of reference of another society. Parkaboy rejects this view, believing that history can be an exact science.

Originality and monoculture
The book explores a tension between originality and monoculture by focusing on the artist's relationship with a commercialized world and its marketing of free art and consumer products. Critic Lisa Zeidner argues that the artist's "loyalty and love" involved with creating originality counters Bigend's assertion that everything is a reflection of something else and that the creative process no longer rests with the individual. Commercialism is portrayed as a monoculture that assimilates originality. The Tommy Hilfiger brand is used as an example, "simulacra of simulacra of simulacra. A dilute tincture of Ralph Lauren, who had himself diluted the glory days of Brooks Brothers, who themselves had stepped on the product of Jermyn Street and Savile Row ... There must be some Tommy Hilfiger event horizon, beyond which it is impossible to be more derivative, more removed from the source, more devoid of soul."

One critic points out that the marketing agency Blue Ant is named after the wasp Blue Ant: "it's a wasp with a painful sting. The female hunts for a ground-dwelling cricket. She paralyses it with a sting and lays her egg on it. The still living yet immobile cricket becomes food for the wasp's young. What a clever metaphor for the process of targeting, commodifying, and marketing cool." On the other hand, as Rudy Rucker notes, while new art is constantly threatened by commodification, it is dependent on the monoculture for its launching point and uniqueness. Gibson's product positioning language and Cayce's analysis of consumerist trends show that society is not a victim of consumerism, but rather its creator who helps shape it without ever stepping outside it. Alex Link argues that rather than a simple attack on consumerism outright, the novel outlines a complex interrelationship between art, brand design, and terrorism as varying attitudes to history, terror, and community.

Branding, identity, and globalization
The novel's language is viewed as rife with labeling and product placements. Postmodern theorist Fredric Jameson calls it "a kind of hyped-up name-dropping ... [where] an encyclopaedic familiarity with the fashions ... [creates] class status as a matter of knowing the score rather than of having money and power". He also calls it "postmodern nominalism" in that the names express the new and fashionable. This name-dropping demonstrates how commercialism has created and named new objects and experiences and renamed (or re-created) some that already existed. This naming includes nationalities; there are eight references to nationality (or locality) in the first three pages. Zeidner wrote that the novel's "new century is unsettlingly transitional making it difficult to maintain an individual identity". One character argues that "there will soon be no national identity left … [as] all experience [will be] reduced, by the spectral hand of marketing, to price-point variations on the same thing." This is juxtaposed against the footage that contains no hints of time period or location. Globalization is represented by characters of varying nationalities, ease of international travel, portable instant communication, and commercial monoculture recognizable across international markets. As an example, Gibson writes how one 'yes or no' decision by Cayce on the logo will impact the lives of the people in remote places who will manufacture the logos and how it will infect their dreams.

Genre
While some reviewers regard the novel as a thriller, others see it as an example of post-millennial science fiction with stories set in the "technocultural future-present". Some reviewers note that the novel furthers the post-millennial trend in science fiction of illustrating society's inability to imagine a definitive future and the use of technologies once considered advanced or academic now commonplace within society and its vernacular. Gibson said that the only science fiction elements are "[t]he Footage and Cayce's special talents" but that he "never bought that conceit that science fiction is about the future". Dennis Danvers explained the use of science fiction as a narrative strategy: "[s]cience fiction, in effect, has become a narrative strategy, a way of approaching story, in which not only characters must be invented, but the world and its ways as well, without resorting to magic or the supernatural, where the fantasy folks work. A realist wrestling with the woes of the middle class can leave the world out of it by and large except for an occasional swipe at the shallowness of suburbia. A science fiction writer must invent the world where the story takes place, often from the ground up, a process usually called world-building. In other words, in a science fiction novel, the world itself is a distinctive and crucial character in the plot, without whom the story could not take place, whether it's the world of Dune or Neuromancer or 1984. The world is the story as much as the story is in the world. Part of Gibson's point ... is that we live in a time of such accelerated change and layered realities, that we're all in that boat, like it or not. A novel set in the 'real world' now has to answer the question, 'Which one?'"

These elements, and the use of the September 11, 2001 attacks as a breaking point from the past, led academics to label it a postmodern novel. The attacks mark the point where the 'modern', that is the 20th-century certainty in society's advancement towards a better future, changed to the 'postmodern', that is the 21st-century uncertainty in which future will develop. Fredric Jameson finds Gibson using culture as the determinant of change for the first time with this novel, rather than technology. Jameson focuses on the novel's "postmodern nominalism" that uses brand names to refresh old objects and experiences.

In post-structural literary theory Cayce is compared with the main character, Oedipa Maas, of Thomas Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49 as detectives interpreting clues but with neither the character nor the reader knowing if there actually is a pattern to be found and, if there is one, whether it is real or conspiracy. Gibson's use of name-dropping brands to create a sense of "in-group style … of those in the know" is traced back to Thomas Pynchon's 1963 novel V.. Gibson's writing style is said to be similar to Raymond Chandler's detective stories and Alfred Hitchcock's thrillers that used MacGuffins (the identity of the maker of the footage, in this case) to drive the story. Gibson's social observations are influenced by the works of Naomi Klein and Malcolm Gladwell.

While markedly different from his previous writing, in that it is not set in an imaginary future with imaginary technologies, Pattern Recognition includes many of his previous elements, including impacts of technology shifts on society, Japanese computer experts and Russian mafia figures. In common with Gibson's previous work, Paul Di Filippo found the following in Pattern Recognition: "the close observation of the culture's bleeding edge; an analysis of the ways technology molds our every moment; the contrasting of boardroom with street; the impossibility and dire necessity of making art in the face of instant co-optation; the damaged loner facing the powers-that-be, for both principle and profit".

Reception
Pattern Recognition was released on February 3, 2003, as Gibson launched a 15-city tour. The novel was featured on the January 19 cover of The New York Times Book Review. In the American market it peaked at number four on the New York Times Best Seller list for hardcover fiction on February 23 and spent nine weeks on USA Today's Top 150 Best-Selling Books peaking at number 34. In the Canadian market, the novel peaked at number three on The Globe and Mail's best seller list on February 15 in the hardcover fiction category. The novel was shortlisted for the 2004 Arthur C. Clarke Award and the British Science Fiction Association Award.

Gibson's writing was positively received by science fiction writers Dennis Danvers, Candas Jane Dorsey, and Rudy Rucker. Rucker has written: "[w]ith a poet's touch, he tiles words into wonderful mosaics" and Danvers wrote that "no sentence has a subject if it can do without one". One critic found the prose to be as "hard and compact as glacier ice" and another that it "gives us sharply observed small moments inscribed with crystalline clarity". Gibson's descriptions of interiors and of the built environments of Tokyo, Russia and London were singled out as impressive, and The Village Voice's review remarked that "Gibson expertly replicates the biosphere of a discussion board: the coffee-shop intimacy, the fishbowl paranoia, the splintering factions, the inevitable flame war". Lisa Zeidner of The New York Times Book Review elaborated: "As usual, Gibson's prose is ... corpuscular, crenelated. His sentences slide from silk to steel, and take tonal joy rides from the ironic to the earnest. But he never gets lost in the language, as he sometimes has in the past. Structurally, this may be his most confident novel. The secondary characters and their subplots are more fully developed, right down to their personal e-mail styles. Without any metafictional grandstanding, Gibson nails the texture of Internet culture: how it feels to be close to someone you know only as a voice in a chat room, or to fret about someone spying on your browser's list of sites visited." Filled with name-dropping of businesses and products, such as MUJI, Hotmail, iBook, Netscape, and G4, the language of the novel was judged by one critic to be "awkward in its effort to appear "cool" " while other critics have found it overdone and feared it would quickly date the novel. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette review commented that the "constant, unadulterated "hipster-technocrat, cyber-MTV" lingo [is] overdone and inappropriate" On the technology, Cory Doctorow found Gibson's use of watermarks and keystroke logging to be hollow and has noted that "Gibson is no technologist, he's an accomplished and insightful social critic ... and he treats these items from the real world as metaphor. But ... Gibson's metaphorical treatment of these technologies will date this very fine book".

Some critics found the plot to be a conventional "unravel-the-secret" and "woman on a quest" thriller. Toby Litt wrote that "[j]udged just as a thriller, Pattern Recognition takes too long to kickstart, gives its big secrets away before it should and never puts the heroine in believable peril". The conclusion, called "unnecessarily pat" by one critic, was compared by Litt with the "ultimate fantasy ending of 1980s movies – the heroine has lucked out without selling out, has kept her integrity but still ended up filthy rich." The review in the Library Journal called the novel a "melodrama of beset geekdom" that "may well reveal the emptiness at the core of Gibson's other fiction", but recommended it for all libraries due to the author's popularity.

Publication history
The hardcover edition, released in February 2003, was published by the Penguin Group imprint G. P. Putnam's Sons. Berkley Books published the trade paperback one year later, on February 3, 2004, and a mass market paperback in February 2005. In the UK the paperback was published by Penguin Books a year after its Viking Press imprint published the hardcover version. In 2004 it was published in French, Danish, Japanese, German, and Spanish. In 2005 the book was published in Russia. The translation made by Nikita Krasnikov was awarded as the best translation of the year.

Tantor Media published the 10.5-hour-long, unabridged audiobook on April 1, 2004, and re-released it on January 1, 2005. Voiced by Shelly Frasier, it was criticized by John Adams of Locus as being pleasant but with distracting dialects.

Adaptations
The digital radio station BBC 7 broadcast (now BBC Radio 4 Extra) an abridged version of the novel, voiced by Lorelei King, in five 30-minute episodes in February and October 2007. Post-punk band Sonic Youth included a track called "Pattern Recognition" on their 2004 album Sonic Nurse that opens with the lyric "I'm a cool hunter making you my way". A film adaptation was initiated in April 2004 with producer Steve Golin's production company Anonymous Content and the studio Warner Bros. Pictures hiring director Peter Weir. Screenwriters David Arata, D. B. Weiss, and Weir co-wrote the screenplay but in May 2007, Gibson commented on his personal blog that he believed Weir would not be proceeding with the project.

title: Pattern Recognition (novel)


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Laughing gull

The laughing gull (Leucophaeus atricilla) is a medium-sized gull of North and South America. Named for its laugh-like call, it is an opportunistic omnivore and scavenger. It breeds in large colonies mostly along the Atlantic coast of North America, the Caribbean, and northern South America. The two subspecies are L. a. megalopterus — which can be seen from southeast Canada down to Central America — and L. a. atricilla, which appears from the West Indies to the Venezuelan islands. The laughing gull was long placed in the genus Larus until its present placement in Leucophaeus.

Taxonomy
The laughing gull was formally described in 1758 by the Swedish naturalist Carl Linnaeus in the tenth edition of his Systema Naturae under the binomial name Larus atricilla. Linnaeus based his account on the "laughing gull" from the Bahamas that had been described and illustrated in 1729–1732 by the English naturalist Mark Catesby in his The Natural History of Carolina, Florida and the Bahama Islands. The laughing gull is now one of five New World gulls placed in the genus Leucophaeus that was introduced in 1855 by the German ornithologist Carl Friedrich Bruch. The genus name Leucophaeus is from Ancient Greek leukos meaning "white" and phaios meaning "dusky". The specific epithet atricilla combines Latin ater meaning "black" with Modern Latin cilla meaning "tail". It is possible that Linnaeus intended to write atricapilla meaning "black-headed".

Like most other members of the genus Leucophaeus, the laughing gull was long placed in the genus Larus. It was moved to the resurrected genus Leucophaeus based on a 2005 molecular phylogenetic study that found that inclusion in Larus made that genus paraphyletic.

Two subspecies are recognised. They are listed below with their breeding ranges.
 * L. a. megalopterus (Bruch, 1855) – islands off west North Atlantic coast of southeast Canada (sporadic or formerly), Maine to Florida, Gulf of Mexico to south Texas, Salton Sea (southeast California; formerly), Gulf of California to Colima
 * L. a. atricilla (Linnaeus, 1758) – West Indies, islands off Yucatán Peninsula, islands north of Venezuela, Trinidad and Tobago and to French Guiana

Description
This species is 36 – long with a 98 – wingspan and a weight range of 203 –. The summer adult's body is white apart from the dark grey back and wings and black head. Its wings are much darker grey than all other gulls of similar size except the smaller Franklin's gull, and they have black tips without the white crescent shown by Franklin's. The beak is long and red. The black hood is mostly lost in winter.

Laughing gulls take three years to reach adult plumage. Immature birds are always darker than most similar-sized gulls other than Franklin's. First-year birds are greyer below and have paler heads than first-year Franklin's, and second-years can be distinguished by the wing pattern and structure.

Distribution and habitat
It breeds on the Atlantic coast of North America, the Caribbean, and northern South America. Northernmost populations migrate farther south in winter, and this species occurs as a rare vagrant to western Europe. The laughing gull's English name is derived from its raucous kee-agh call, which sounds like a high-pitched laugh "ha... ha... ha...".

Breeding
Laughing gull nest from mid to late May in the north of their range and from late April in Florida. They nest in colonies which vary in size from a few pairs to 25,000. The nest site is usually on low lying coastal islands. The nest is built by both sexes from available vegetation. The clutch is usually three eggs. These are incubated by both parents for 22-27 days. The chicks normally remain near nest for the first 5 days. Both parents brood and feed the chicks. The young can fly when they are around 40 days old.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Laughing gull


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Gehry Tower

Gehry Tower is a nine-story building constructed by architect Frank Gehry; it is located at the Steintor, Goethestraße 13a, in Hanover, Germany. The building was commissioned by the city-owned Hanover Transport Services (üstra), for whom Gehry also designed a bus stop in the city.

Constructed of stainless steel, the tower is memorable for the noticeable twist in its outer façade on a ferroconcrete core, making optimal use of the relatively small piece of ground on which it is located. Like many of Gehry's buildings, the tower was created with the most modern technology available at the time. Gehry's office first created a 1:100 model, which was then scanned and imported into CAD software to be able to compute the dimensions for the individual parts, all of which vary in size and shape.

Construction began in 1999, cost 8.5 million Deutsche Mark, and the building officially opened 28 June 2001.

title: Gehry Tower


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Talk:Buddy Ebsen

Untitled
Ebson played the part of a "fatherly" WWII sargeant along with Jack Palance, Eddie Albert & Lee Marvin in the late 50's b&w army film "Attack."

Here is the obituary posted by his family that states he died July 6, 2003. Check the website.

http://www.actorbuddyebsen.info/obit.htm

What happened to Uncle Jed's picture
Someone needs to restore the photo's. They made this article a lot better. Hokeman 23:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Ebsen's Novel
MSN Encarta states Ebsen's novel Kelly's Quest was published in 2000. The fact stated is part of the MSN Encarta quiz Celebrity Scribes.97.82.246.18 (talk) 11:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Last Paragraph
"Buddy's siblings almost produced longer lives for them..." - Umm, what is this sentence supposed to mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.69.81.2 (talk) 16:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Misdiagnosis?
"It may be a misconception that Ebsen was allergic to the powdered aluminum. In a TV episode of House entitled "The Right Stuff," House asks a group of fellowship candidates to present seven separate diagnoses for Buddy Ebsen's final fatal pneumonia, subtly implying that the allergy to aluminum dust was a misdiagnosis."

So is this based on a verified medical assessment of Buddy Ebsen's health, or is it simply made-for-TV drama? I see no evidence other than that presented by a fictional TV character. This needs to be properly sourced or deleted. HealthySkepticism (talk) 17:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I will look for additional sources, but it wasn't an allergy but rather his lungs were coated with the aluminum powder. They changed the makeup after that. Unsinkablerob (talk) 03:23, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

 * It would not have necessarily been due to an allergy. Aluminum is known to be toxic, though Alcoa and Reynolds Aluminum would prefer it otherwise, and inhaling the aluminum dust would cause an unusually high rate

of exposure in a manner conducive to absorption. Aluminum is suspected, if not established, as a culprit in arthritis-like joint issues, which symptoms were also present. Hard to diagnose causation half a century later from nebulous news stories, but Dr.House's fictional diagnosis is more yhan interesting. Rags (talk) 22:59, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Initials
What does the "C.R." mean in the caption for his World War II picture? Clarityfiend (talk) 23:58, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

 * C.R. would stand for Christian Rudolf as in Christian Rudolf Ebsen, Jr., his given name. The Coast Guard would not have had a record of his nickname.  It could be somewhat confusing and I will change it to his given name in the caption.Cuprum17 (talk) 15:56, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

 * D'oh! Clarityfiend (talk) 02:30, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

 * But wasn't his name "Ludolph"? Anyone know what ethnicity that is?  Rags (talk) 23:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Painting
Wasn't Ebsen painting (and even selling some paintings) in his twilight years? Il Castrato (talk) 14:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Other TV appearances
I just stumbled across an old Mayberry (Andy Griffith Show?) episode where Ebsen appears as a sort of drifter living in a shack. Is that worth listing in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.200.232 (talk) 18:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I find this:

Ebsen also appeared twice as "Mr. Dave", a homeless hobo, on The Andy Griffith Show, playing opposite Ron Howard.

Perhaps that answers your question about Mayberry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 20:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Ebsen appears in an episode of Bronco Lane as Sgt. Cass, a soldier in the US Army - Bronco, Apache Treasure. Ebsen's character is sent with Bronco and a Lieutenant to meet with an Apache chief after scalp hunters murder numerous Apache tribe members. Tall Girl (talk) 11:01, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Buddy Ebsen had a leading role in an episode of Gunsmoke (Season 6, ep 15, 1960) where he played a Jed Clampett like homesteader, living in a cabin with his wife. (184.22.105.94 (talk) 11:33, 14 December 2017 (UTC))

Wizard of Oz -- remark about outliving the others
I found:

"Ironically, Ebsen outlived all of the major cast members of The Wizard of Oz by at least 16 years, and lived at least 10 years longer than any of them."

Please clarify this "16 years" and "10 years" stuff, at least in the forum used for the message you are reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 20:31, 19 December 2011 (UTC) Technically, Jerry Maren, a few Munchkins, and extras such as Shep Houghton are still alive as of 2016. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6001:E790:5800:7868:62B3:447D:FA6B (talk) 19:24, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

2 unencyclopedic and unsourced additions removed
Those need a source to show that they are factual wp:notable. I can't see how the whizzing on the tombstone thing is a valuable addition.User talk:Unfriend12 20:11, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Ebsen also played Fess Parker's sidekick in Walt Disney's Davy Crockett miniseries (1953–54), until he fell ill from an allergy to the makeup.
Aren't you mixing his appearance in the series with his experiences with The Wizard of Oz? Kostaki mou (talk) 23:27, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Buddy Ebsen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Author?
Other websites list him as an author (painter?) as well. I see no mention here, except in passing in the "Quotations" section. Wouldn't a list of published works be in order? I think the public at large perceive Ebsen as a muzzy-headed hillbilly, when he was so much more. Rags (talk) 23:08, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Vote for Goldwater?
Why is this important enough to include in the article? It seems tacked on for no reason. If how Ebsen voted in 64 is important, shouldn’t we have info on how he voted in other national elections. Maybe some folks care, but I don’t get it. No worries, I’m only one person and of little consequence at that.THX1136 (talk) 03:02, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Buddy Ebsen


text:
User:Dandrake

New user in July, 2003. Don't like writing bios, but my hostility to the anonymous hit-and-run crew dictates showing that I have an identity.

Dragged into Wikipedia by Lord Peter Wimsey connections. Drawn, once here, into some history of science issues.

Website: http://www.dandrake.com

Lord Peter Wimsey stuff: http://www.dandrake.com/wimsey The best thing there, IMHO, is on a non-Wimsey item: The Documents in the Case at http://www.dandrake.com/wimsey/docu.html

Oh, and one personal anecdote, because the things I do on Wikipedia remind me of it, and because The Child Is Father to the Man, and vice versa. Any normal child hates hearing about the cute things he did when he was little, and we normally carry that into adulthood. But this one, which I first heard when I was about 40, is different.

Time: the late 1940s Place: Oakland; San Francisco; the Bay Bridge

When I was seven years old or so, my father worked on some large project that had him putting in weekend time at the investment banking house he then worked at. (Those were the halcyon days when a word association with "financial analyst" would most likely have produced "dull" rather than "fraud" or "obstruction of justice".) On a couple of Saturday mornings he took me along to his office in San Francisco in a sort of Take Your Son To Work operation, after which we went to lunch. And then to a book store, where I'd mess about in the remainders bin and the kids' books while he looked at the dusty old archives.

I never found a Cosmographia Universalis in the marked-down bin [Lord Peter allusion]; but on one of these trips I found a rather peculiar book on dinosaurs and various prehistoric things. As we got onto the Bay Bridge on the way home, I was reading away at it. And I said with annoyance, "Hey, this book is wrong!"

My father naturally asked, "What's wrong?"

"It shows an Allosaurus going into the water, and they hated the water." [Or something of the sort.]

"How do you know?"

"The book I got at the museum says so."

And he asked, "How do you know which one is right?"

We drove on in silence, through the tunnel through Yerba Buena Island, across the east span, past the stinking mud flats by the bay (now called wetlands and free of raw sewage), up Stanford Street, up 51st Street, and finally into Manila Avenue, half a block from home.

And then I asked, "How do you know?"

And here, below the line, are just some links that I've decided to stop forgetting.

Template:Custom messages Boilerplate text How_to_edit_a_page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_referencing

title: User:Dandrake


text:
Flag of New Zealand

The flag of New Zealand, also known as the New Zealand Ensign, is based on the British maritime Blue Ensigna blue field with the Union Jack in the canton or upper hoist corneraugmented or defaced with four red stars centred within four white stars, representing the Southern Cross constellation.

New Zealand's first internationally accepted national flag, the flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand, was adopted in 1834, six years before New Zealand's separation from New South Wales and creation as a separate colony following the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840. Chosen by an assembly of Māori chiefs at Waitangi in 1834, the flag was of a St George's Cross with another cross in the canton containing four stars on a blue field. After the formation of the colony in 1840, British ensigns began to be used. The current flag was designed and adopted for use on the colony's ships in 1869, was quickly adopted as New Zealand's national flag, and given statutory recognition in 1902.

For several decades there has been debate about changing the flag. In 2016, a two-stage binding referendum on a flag change took place with voting on the second final stage closing on 24 March. In this referendum, the country voted to keep the existing flag by 57% to 43%.

Devices
The flag of New Zealand uses two prominent symbols:
 * The Union Jack (or Union Flag)
 * The Southern Cross (or Crux)

In its original usage as the flag of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the Union Jack combined three heraldic crosses which represent the countries of the United Kingdom (as constituted in 1801):
 * The red St George's Cross of England
 * The white diagonal St Andrew's Cross of Scotland
 * The red diagonal St Patrick's Cross of Ireland

The Union Jack reflects New Zealand's origins as a British colony.

The Southern Cross constellation is one of the striking features of the Southern Hemisphere sky, and has been used to represent New Zealand, among other Southern Hemisphere colonies, since the early days of European settlement. Additionally, in Māori mythology the Southern Cross is identified as Māhutonga, an aperture in Te Ikaroa (the Milky Way) through which storm winds escaped.

Specifications
The flag should be rectangular in shape and its length should be two times its width, translating into an aspect ratio of 1:2. It has a royal blue background with a Union Jack in the canton, and four five-pointed red stars centred within four five-pointed white stars on the fly (outer or right-hand side). The exact colours are specified as Pantone 186 C (red), Pantone 280 C (blue), and white. According to the Ministry for Culture and Heritage, the government department responsible for the flag, the royal blue background is "reminiscent of the blue sea and sky surrounding us", and the stars "signify [New Zealand's] place in the South Pacific Ocean". The New Zealand Government history website states: "Its royal blue background is derived from the ensign of the Blue Squadron of the Royal Navy."

The notice that appeared in the New Zealand Gazette on 27 June 1902 gave a technical description of the stars and their positions on the New Zealand Ensign:

"'The centres of the stars forming the long limb of the cross shall be on a vertical line on the fly, midway between the Union Jack and the outer edge of the fly, and equidistant from its upper and lower edges; and the distance apart of the centres of the stars shall be equal to thirty-six sixtieths the hoist of the ensign.

The centres of the stars forming the short limb of the cross shall be on a line intersecting the vertical limb at an angle of 82 therewith, and rising from near the lower fly corner of the Union Jack towards the upper fly corner of the ensign, its point of intersection with the vertical line being distant from the centre of the uppermost star of the cross twelve-sixtieths of the hoist of the ensign.

The distance of the centre of the star nearest the outer edge of the fly from the point of intersection shall be equal to twelve-sixtieths of the hoist of the ensign, and the distance of the centre of the star nearest the Union Jack from the point of intersection shall be equal to fourteen-sixtieths of the hoist of the ensign.

The star nearest the fly edge of the ensign shall measure five-sixtieths, the star at the top of the cross and that nearest to the Union Jack shall each measure six-sixtieths, and the star at the bottom of the cross shall measure seven-sixtieths of the hoist of the ensign across their respective red points, and the width of the white borders to the several stars shall in all cases be equal to one one-hundred-and-twentieth of the hoist of the ensign.'"

Early flags of New Zealand
There is no recorded flag culture among the Māori before Europeans introduced them to New Zealand. By the early 1800s, flags had become an important part of Māori culture. During this time, some Māori attached fern leaves or traditional woven cloth, such as paki, to their ships when participating in international trade. These are considered by some to be the first flags of New Zealand.

In 1830, the trading ship Sir George Murray, built in the Hokianga, sailed to the port of Sydney flying a kaitaka flag. The ship was seized by customs officials in the port who deemed the cloth not to meet the British navigation laws requiring ships to fly national ensigns. Among the passengers on the ship were two high-ranking Māori chiefs, believed to be Patuone and Taonui. The ship's detention was reported as arousing indignation among the Māori population.

The Murray was sold at auction to Thomas McDonnell who flew a St. George's cross with a blue canton charged with a half moon from the ship. This flag was described by the Sydney Herald as 'the New Zealand colours', though they may have been simply McDonnell's house flag.

Flag of the United Tribes

The first flag of New Zealand was adopted 9 (or 20) March 1834 by a vote made by the United Tribes of New Zealand, a meeting of Māori chiefs convened at Waitangi by British resident James Busby. The United Tribes later made the Declaration of Independence of New Zealand at Waitangi in 1835. Three flags were proposed, all designed by the missionary Henry Williams, who was to play a major role in the translation of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840. The chiefs rejected two other proposals which included the Union Jack, in favour of a modified St George's Cross or the White Ensign, which was the flag used by Henry Williams on the Church Missionary Society ships. This flag became known as the flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand and was officially gazetted in New South Wales in August 1835, with a general description not mentioning fimbriation or the number of points on the stars.

The United Tribes' flag is still flown on the flag pole at Waitangi, and can be seen on Waitangi Day.

Union Jack
After the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, the Union Jack was used, although the former United Tribes flag was still used by a number of ships from New Zealand and in many cases on land. The New Zealand Company settlement at Wellington, for example, continued to use the United Tribes flag until Governor William Hobson sent a small armed force to Wellington in May 1840 (following his declaration of British sovereignty). The Union Jack, as a symbol of British authority, became the focus of the Flagstaff War which began in 1844, marking (according to some historians) the start of the New Zealand Wars.

The Union Jack was described as the "superior flag", to be flown above the New Zealand flag prior to 1965.

Flags based on defaced Blue Ensign
During the Invasion of the Waikato (July 1863 – April 1864) period of the New Zealand Wars the British forces realised they needed access to colonial ships to fight Māori. The colonial government subsequently acquired vessels which were staffed by Royal Navy officers. The vessels were under local and not Admiralty control. An armed ship, Victoria, owned by the Colony of Victoria transported reinforcements to New Zealand for the campaign and took part in bombardments of Māori. The British government was concerned about its colonies developing their own navies, not under the control of the Royal Navy's Admiralty.

This led to the British parliament passing the Colonial Naval Defence Act 1865, which allowed the colonial governments to own ships, including for military purposes, under the provision that they would have to be under the Royal Navy's command. In 1866 the British Admiralty advised colonies that if they possessed vessels governed by the Act, they must fly the Royal Navy Blue Ensign but that they must also include on the flag the seal or badge of the colony. New Zealand did not have a colonial badge, or indeed a coat of arms of its own at this stage, and so in 1867 the letters "NZ" were simply added to the blue ensign, following a decree by Governor George Grey on 15 January 1867.

In 1869 the then First Lieutenant of the Royal Navy vessel Blanche, Albert Hastings Markham, submitted a design to Sir George Bowen, the Governor of New Zealand, for a national ensign for New Zealand. This followed a request by Bowen to Markham to come up with a new flag design, following a request to Bowen from the Colonial Office. His proposal, incorporating the Southern Cross, was approved on 23 October 1869. It was initially to be used only on government ships.

To end confusion between various designs of the flag, New Zealand's Liberal Government passed the New Zealand Ensign Act 1901, which was approved by King Edward VII on 24 March 1902.

Flown in battle
One of the first recorded accounts of the New Zealand Blue Ensign flag being flown in battle was at Quinn's Post, Gallipoli, in 1915. It was not flown officially. The flag was brought back to New Zealand by Private John Taylor, Canterbury Battalion. The first time the flag of New Zealand was flown in a naval battle and the first time officially in any battle, was from HMS Achilles during the Battle of the River Plate in 1939.

Flag law and protocol
The Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981 governs the usage of the national flag and all other official flags. This act, like most other laws, can be amended or repealed by a simple majority in Parliament. Section 5(2) of the act declares the flag to be "the symbol of the Realm, Government, and people of New Zealand". Section 11(1) outlines two offences: altering the flag without lawful authority, and using, displaying, damaging or destroying the flag in or within view of a public place with the intention of dishonouring it.

The minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage has authority to prescribe when and how the flag should be flown and what the standard sizes, dimensions, proportions and colours should be. In its advisory role, the Ministry for Culture and Heritage has issued guidelines to assist persons in their use of the flag. No permission is needed to fly the flag, and it may be flown on every day of the year—government and public buildings with flagpoles are especially encouraged to fly the flag during working hours. However, it should never be flown in a dilapidated condition.

From November 1941 to October 1984 the Ceremony of Honouring the Flag Regulations 1941 required state schools to commemorate Waitangi, Anzac, Empire, King's birthday, Trafalgar, Armistice and Dominion Days. In 1984 the cost of flags and poles was estimated to be $340,000.

Unlike some other countries there is no single official "Flag Day" in New Zealand, and no pledge of allegiance to the flag. Flag flying may be encouraged on certain commemorative days, at the discretion of the minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage.

The flag is usually only used as a vehicle flag by certain high-ranking officeholders, including: the prime minister and other ministers; ambassadors and high commissioners (when overseas); and the chief of Defence Force. In such cases, no distinguishing defacement or fringing of the flag is used.

The flag is flown at half-mast in New Zealand—always at the discretion of the minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage—to indicate a period of mourning. Notable occasions on which the flag was half-masted include: the death of former prime minister David Lange, the death and state funeral of mountaineer Sir Edmund Hillary and the death of Queen Elizabeth II. When the flag is flown at half-mast, it should be lowered to a position recognisably at half-mast to avoid the appearance of a flag which has accidentally fallen away from the top of the flagpole; the flag should be at least its own height from the top of the flagpole.

Debate
With the Union Jack in its upper left-hand quarter, the flag still proclaims New Zealand's origins as a British colony. Some New Zealanders believe a new flag would better reflect the country's independence, while others argue that the design represents New Zealand's strong past and present ties to the United Kingdom and its history as a part of the British Empire. Relatedly, debate about changing the flag has often arisen in connection with the issue of republicanism in New Zealand. The Southern Cross constellation is depicted on other flags, such as the flag of Australia—although in Australia's case there are five all-white stars and an additional larger star beneath the Union Jack canton, while New Zealand's four stars have red centres. The similar flags of Australia and New Zealand are often mistaken for each other, and this confusion was cited by the NZ Flag.com Trust as a reason for adopting a different design.

Debate on keeping or changing the New Zealand flag started before May 1973, when a remit for "New Zealand to be declared a republic, change the national flag, and the national anthem" was voted down by the Labour Party at their national conference. In November 1979 Minister of Internal Affairs Allan Highet suggested that the design of the flag should be changed, and sought an artist to design a new flag with a silver fern on the fly, but the proposal attracted little support.

In 1994 Christian Democrat MP Graeme Lee introduced a Flags, Anthems, Emblems, and Names Protection Amendment Bill. If passed, the bill would have entrenched the Act that governs the flag (see ) and added New Zealand's anthems, requiring a majority of 65 percent of votes in Parliament before any future legislation could change the flag. The bill passed its first reading but was defeated at its second reading, 26 votes to 37.

In 1998 Prime Minister Jenny Shipley backed Cultural Affairs Minister Marie Hasler's call for the flag to be changed. Shipley, along with the New Zealand Tourism Board, put forward the quasi-national silver fern flag (a silver fern on a black field, along the lines of the Canadian Maple Leaf flag) as a possible alternative flag.

On 5 August 2010 Labour list MP Charles Chauvel submitted a member's bill for a consultative commission followed by a referendum on the New Zealand flag.

2015–16 referendums
On 11 March 2014, Prime Minister John Key announced in a speech his intention to hold a referendum, during the next parliamentary term, on adopting a new flag. Key stated, "It's my belief, and I think one increasingly shared by many New Zealanders, that the design of the New Zealand flag symbolises a colonial and post-colonial era whose time has passed". Following his party's re-election that year, the details of the two referendums were announced. The first referendum was set for November 2015 allowing voters to decide on a preferred design from five choices. The second referendum would see the preferred design voted on against the current flag in March 2016.

Had the flag changed, the current flag (described as the "1902 flag") of New Zealand would have been "recognised as a flag of historical significance", and its continued use would have been permitted. Official documents depicting the current flag would have been replaced only through ordinary means, e.g. an existing driving licence would have remained valid until its renewal date.

On 11 December 2015, preliminary results were announced for the first referendum. The black, white and blue design, with a silver fern and red stars, was the winning flag. This flag design did not win the second referendum; according to preliminary results announced on 24 March 2016, the existing 1902 flag was chosen to remain the New Zealand flag. 56.7% were in favour of retaining the flag, with a voter turnout of 67.3%. 43.3% were in favour of changing the flag to the Lockwood design.

New Zealand Red Ensign
A red version of the flag, officially called the Red Ensign and nicknamed the "red duster", was adopted in 1903 to be flown on non-government ships. It was flown on New Zealand merchant ships during both world wars.

The Red Ensign has sometimes been flown incorrectly on land in the belief that it is the national flag. The Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981 does allow for the Red Ensign to be used on land on occasions of Māori significance, continuing the long preference of Māori for the use of red in flags.

Other New Zealand flags
The flag commonly known as the tino rangatiratanga (te reo Māori for 'absolute sovereignty') flag was designed in 1989. It has been acknowledged as a national flag for the Māori.

There are two official flags which, when flown in the appropriate circumstance, take precedence over the national flag of New Zealand:
 * The Queen's Personal New Zealand Flag, adopted in 1962, depicts the New Zealand coat of arms in banner form defaced with a roundel containing the letter 'E' and a crown. The personal flag was flown continuously on any building in which Queen Elizabeth II was in residence and by any ship that transported the Queen in New Zealand waters. Since the death of the Queen, the flag is no longer displayed.
 * The flag of the governor-general of New Zealand is flown continuously in the presence of the governor-general. The flag in its present form was adopted in 2008, and is a blue banner with a shield of the New Zealand coat of arms surmounted by a crown.

In addition, the New Zealand Police, New Zealand Fire Service, New Zealand Customs Service, and the services of the New Zealand Defence Force have their own flags. A few local authorities have commissioned their own flags, such as that of the City of Nelson.

title: Flag of New Zealand


text:
Talk:Joseph Campbell

Criticism of Campbell
Duckduckgeese, you need to immediately stop making edits such as this. There is no policy on Wikipedia that Joseph Campbell is above criticism. Including criticism about controversial figures is perfectly appropriate, per WP:NPOV: "All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic". That includes critical views. The fact of the matter is that many scholars have criticized Campbell and have problems with his work for one reason or another. You have no valid reason at all to be removing their views from this article, and in fact are doing readers a terrible disservice by doing so. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 04:57, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I have no problem with their being criticism. However, unsubstantiated accusations of antisemitism are not okay. I also initially removed the quote about Masson and Campbell "hating each other on sight" because it's ludicrous.Duckduckgeese (talk) 04:59, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * This article is not about a living person. It is about a man who has been dead for some time. Is it acceptable for an article about someone who is long dead to mention that some people have accused him of being anti-semitic? Yes, it is; in fact it would be outrageous not to do so if the criticism has attracted significant attention. It would be impossible to write proper articles about several significant historical figures if it were otherwise. Like I said, "speak no ill of Joseph Campbell" is not the rule here. Jeffrey Masson's opinions about Campbell are worth including because Masson happens to be both a famous, notable individual and a Sanskrit scholar (and therefore in a position to judge that Campbell didn't know what he was talking about). Mentioning Masson's and Campbell's negative reactions to each other gives Masson's views their proper context. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:04, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Again, not the issue. The issue is whether or not the claim was substantiated.  Is proof not needed?Duckduckgeese (talk) 05:06, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a specious argument. When there is a controversy about whether someone was anti-semitic, it is appropriate to mention the controversy. See, for example, the article on Carl Jung, which discusses the controversies over his alleged anti-semitism. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:09, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * My understanding of the controversy is Gill made a posthumous accusation of Campbell's anti-semitism and used two secondhand stories as evidence. I would think the bar for inclusion on Wikipedia would be a little higher.Duckduckgeese (talk) 05:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, your response is beside the point. The issue isn't what you personally think of the accusation. The question is, rather, did it attract sufficient attention to be worth mentioning in Campbell's biography? I think the article makes it quite clear that it did. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:17, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you link the article? Duckduckgeese (talk) 05:22, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Read Joseph Campbell, the article you have been edit warring over. There is enough material about the controversy over Campbell's alleged anti-semitism to make it quite clear the material is worth including. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:24, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Gill's article resulted in a series of letters to the editor, some supporting the charge of antisemitism or accusing Campbell of having various other right-wing biases, others defending him." This needs to be sourced. Duckduckgeese (talk) 06:17, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It is sourced - as I already explained. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 06:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It's unfortunate that an unsubstantiated smear lives on. Duckduckgeese (talk) 05:29, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:NOTFORUM. The purpose of this page isn't to provide a forum for people to express their personal views about Joseph Campbell. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 06:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There shall not be any edit warring. Please refrain from this. Duckduckgeese, please discuss this issue here and others will discuss the issue as well. For now, the page stands as is. - Kiraroshi1976 (talk) 05:06, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Gill's article resulted in a series of letters to the editor, some supporting the charge of antisemitism or accusing Campbell of having various other right-wing biases, others defending him." Does this not require a citation?Duckduckgeese (talk) 06:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The entire paragraph is properly cited, to a book by Robert S. Ellwood. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk)

 * Regarding "did it attract sufficient attention to be worth mentioning in Campbell's biography?" No, it didn't, and that's the thing.  These accusations are completely fringe.  (They aren't shared by the larger international body of scholars of comparative religion.)  If Campbell was an antisemite, for example, where's the proof?  Where's a single quote?  Where's an account of something that actually occurred?  Fact is, no such accounts have come to light because there aren't any.  I've read most of his books, and the concept, even the implication, never comes up once.  It just isn't there folks.  It, and accusations like it, are put out there by a scant handful of people likely threatened in some way by Campbell's interpretations.  50.54.225.180 (talk) 12:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Seems like a personal attack by Brendan Gill by reading the original article. The article from September 1989 gives zero clues for supporting this accusation. Following articles are on the same low level and the only hint at anti-semitism is an alleged bad joke by Campbell about the moon: a single anecdote with no follow-ups. It's gossip and nothing more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Eldritch (talk • contribs) 14:15, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Correction on modified link
I checked the archive.org link above and modified it to a working one with a previous date in the URL: https://web.archive.org/web/20100527062921/http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/bcj/07-02.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Eldritch (talk • contribs) 14:35, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Recent edits
Dkudler, in regards to this edit, I have to say that you seem confused. Your edit summary was, "If you insist. I've added NPOV tags. By quoting Dr. Buchen incompletely, that final sentence is misleading and therefore lacks a neutral point of view. The first sentence in the paragraph refers to Masson; obfuscating that is also non-neu". In the first place, it is obviously acceptable for Wikipedia to quote people "incompletely", if what that means is that we do not automatically quote everything and anything that people say. In the second place, the article mentions that, "However, Buchen adds that Campbell worked closely with three scholars who did translate Sanskrit well." So where exactly is the problem? You earlier complained that it was misleading to leave that out; it has now been added (which you could have done yourself), so on what grounds do you see a continuing problem? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:23, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Gandydancer, you wrote, "FKC, please try to work with other WP editors". I am. That is why I wrote the comment above, explaining to Dkudler that I had good reasons for reverting his edit, and that the reasons he gave for it were mistaken. Perhaps you would like to join the conversation instead of reverting me without proper explanation? Simply telling me to "work with other editors" is not a justification for a revert and does nothing to explain why you consider the content of my edit wrong. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:34, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I felt that it was not helpful to revert a tag in the heat of discussion. It seems petty.  It would have been best to bring it up on talk rather than revert.  All in all the article is now improved thanks to your questioning and the changes that were made.  I can't see the need for the tag either and I agree that IMO Dkudler needs to help us to understand his position. Gandydancer (talk) 15:48, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Gandydancer, Dkudler has had several days now to respond and to explain his reasons for adding NPOV tags here. He has not done so. I am being patient, but it is not clear to me why the tags should be indefinitely left in the article with no explanation why they are necessary. The original complaint was that certain material was excluded from the article, but that material has now been added. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 21:02, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes he should have commented here. I will revert my edit.  Will that be all that is needed?  Gandydancer (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Influenced
Robert Bly - very directly Jordan Peterson - less directly but still quite significantly 24.13.83.67 (talk) 00:24, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

The Barbara McClintock who ran the CJ Jung institute in San Francisco is not the Nobel prize winning geneticist, who lived and worked near Cold harbor in New York. The link needs to be disambiguated. 50.71.252.205 (talk) 14:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Joseph Campbell


text:
Van and Schenck

Van and Schenck were popular American entertainers in the 1910s and 1920s: Gus Van (born August Von Glahn, August 12, 1886 – March 12, 1968), baritone, and Joe Schenck (pronounced "skenk"; born Joseph Thuma Schenck, (June 2, 1891– June 28, 1930), tenor. They were vaudeville stars and made appearances in the Ziegfeld Follies of 1918, 1919, 1920 and 1921. They made numerous phonograph records for the Emerson, Victor, and Columbia record companies.

History
With Schenck on piano, the duo sang and performed comedy routines. Van was especially adept at dialect humor, and could imitate any number of regional and continental accents. One of the team's typical novelty hits was Pastafazoola, in praise of Italian food and sung in the appropriate style. Van's hearty baritone and Schenck's high tenor harmonized well, and the team became known as "the pennant-winning battery of songland." They performed on radio shows and appeared in early talking motion pictures, including several musical shorts—in both Vitaphone and MGM Movietone—and one feature, the MGM film They Learned About Women (1930).

During World War I, they recorded humorous songs such as "I Don't Want to Get Well" which told the tale of a wounded soldier who did not want to recover, as he was comfortable in hospital and in love with a nurse.

After Schenck's death in 1930 of heart disease, Van continued to perform as a solo artist on stage, screen, and radio. He appeared in many New York-produced Soundies in 1941. Schenck was buried in The Cemetery of the Evergreens in Brooklyn.

Van and Schenck gained a modern-day resurgence after their 1920 recording of Irving Berlin's "After You Get What You Want, You Don't Want It" was sampled in the soundtrack of the indie video game Pizza Tower.

Selected discography

 * "It's Been a Long, Long Time Since I've Been Home" (1916)
 * "Hawaiian Sunshine" (1916)
 * "For Me and My Gal" (1917)
 * "Yaddie Kaddie Kiddie Kaddie Koo" (1917)
 * "Huckleberry Finn" (1917)
 * "That's How You Can Tell They're Irish" (1917)
 * "My Little China Doll" (1917)
 * "Mother, May I Go in to Swim?" (1917)
 * "Dance and Grow Thin" (1917)
 * "There's Something Nice about the South" (1917)
 * "Far Away in Honolulu" (1917)
 * "Mulberry Rose" (1917)
 * "The Ragtime Volunteers are Off to War" (1917)
 * "I Don't Want to Get Well" (1917)
 * "Southern Gals" (1917)
 * "I Miss the Old Folks Now" (1917)
 * "In the Land O' Yamo Yamo" (1917)
 * "Where Do They Get 'Em and How Do They Get 'Em?" (1918)
 * "My Mind's Made Up to Marry Carolina" (1918)
 * "Ragtime Moses Old-Time Bomboshay" (1918)
 * "I Always Think I'm Up in Heaven" (1918)
 * "Tackin 'Em Down" (1918)
 * "They Were All Out of Step But Jim" (1918)
 * "Why Do They Call Them Babies?" (1918)
 * "You'll Always Find A Lot of Sunshine in My Old Kentucky Home" (1918)
 * "You'll Find Old Dixieland in France" (1918)
 * "Oh, How She Can Sing" (1919)
 * "Mandy" (1919)
 * "Open Up The Golden Gates To Dixieland" (1919)
 * "Sweet Kisses" (1919)
 * "They're All Sweeties" (1919)
 * "After You Get What You Want, You Don't Want It" (1920)
 * "All The Boys Love Mary" (1920)
 * "In Napoli" (1920)
 * "You Tell 'em" (1920)
 * "Ain't We Got Fun" (1921)
 * "Ain't You Coming Out Malinda?" (1921)
 * "All She'd Say Was Umh Hum" (1921)
 * "O'Reilly (I'm Ashamed of You)" (1921)
 * "She Walks in Her Husband's Sleep" (1921)
 * "Sweet Love" (1921)
 * "What's A Gonna Be Next?" (1921)
 * "Who's Been Around" (1921)
 * "Carolina in The Morning" (1923)
 * "Steamboat Sal" (1923)
 * "You Tell Her-I Stutter" (1923)
 * "Away Down East in Maine" (1923)
 * "Take 'em To The Door Blues" (1925)
 * "That Red Head Gal" (1926)
 * "Magnolia" (1927)
 * "Pastafazoola" (1927)
 * "Stay Out of the South" (1929)

title: Van and Schenck


text:
Talk:Bağlama

Comment
There is nothing in History of Greece about why one might want to hide a musical instrument. Can someone add some information so that this article isn't such a tease? - Molinari 07:55 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

This is a ridiculous cross-reference. The history of baglamas belongs here. Not on History of Greece or History of music. Here. --Menchi 08:00 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Do you know anything of the instrument's history? - Molinari 08:03 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * No, I just passed by randomly and saw your comment. After checking out that article as is, it shocked me with its very illogical x-ref, so offered my support. Never heard of it. --Menchi 08:39 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Sorry about the goofiness with naming, I'm only familiar with the Turkish bağlama, and Wikipedia is weird about diacritics in titles.

When you order a baglama from a Greek luthier, they ask whether you want the bowl carved or made from staves, it can be either. I did a bit of a re-write of the Greek baglama section, and added a better picture for the Greek baglama. I hope the author of the previous picture is not too offended! The instrument shown is mine, and was made by Karolos Tsakirian. The Real Walrus 08:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, history baglama is basicly based on Central Asian countries, there are many similar instruments like in Kyrgyzyztan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan etc. Kopuz, dutar, dumbra, tanbur and tar (etc.) are the such insturments which are so similar to baglama. Probably Turks has taken that instrument from chinese people or maybe turkic people invented it earlier. here on the following, there is a site about a uzbek musician: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/awards2005/profile_sevaranazarkhan.shtml - Cem

Since they are such different instruments, maybe there should be separate pages for the Greek baglama and the other kinds? Just a thought, and it needs a more experienced editor than I am... The Real Walrus 10:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

They are not such different instruments at all, just Greeks like to disassociate anything remotely connected with a Turkish heritage, such as the Zeybek dance, too. The derivative is the same. They are variations of the same instrument that have developed in different cultures. But as most the editors, and Wikipedia for that matter, are biased towards anything Greek and dance to nationalist hellene tunes, anything is possible. 82.145.231.214 20:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

What a pointless talk, I don't understand the Greeks, they already have a wealthy culture but still they are trying to steal from other countries... I'm sorry but adding a letter, particularly "-s", at the end of every Turkish name doesn't work :D (sinan4360)

 * This discussion seems less about maintaining the article, and more about Turkish-Greek relations. Please remain mindful of WP:NOTFORUM. Thank you. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:56, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Turkish Baglama Strings
I was given a Turkish Baglama Saz that has 7 strings. The courses are (from left to right) 2, 2, and 3 strings. I don't think it has the right type of strings. What is the right order and type of strings to make this beautiful instrument sing? Perhaps               a place where to buy them? Edgardpedia 23:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments by 130.37.210.210 (see )
After my opinion the section about the baglama should we rewritten and based on scientific research and not political/ideological ideas.

Some points: 1. There is no relationship between the kopuz and saz/baglama. See article of Tamila Djani-Zade: Die organologische und ikonographische Gestalt der türkischen Lauten. Über das historische Zupfinstrument qâpâz-i ôz. Also see Walter Feldman: Music of the Ottoman Court and sections about the baglama, saz and tanbur in the New Grove Dictionary. It is generally accepted that the baglama belonges to the tanbur family. 2. Jean-Benjamin de Laborde never travelled to Turkey. In his Essai sur la music ancienne et modern from 1780 he describes the baglama as a small type of lute. In Anatolia the traditional baglama also belonged to the smaller saz instruments. His sources for the baglama are still unknown. 3. The genesis of the baglama is more complex as is suggested by the item about this instrument in Wikipedia. 4. The rise of the modern baglama and baglama family is a recent development. 5. The foundation of the Republic in 1923 was of great influence on the folk music of Anatolia and its lute culture. 130.37.210.210

Infobox
Discussion of the infobox that just showed up is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musical Instruments. __Just plain Bill (talk) 23:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Aegean folk music agir zeybek.ogg
Image:Aegean folk music agir zeybek.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Measurements
Hi! I was just doing a bit of editing to your article, and I was wondering what the units of measurement were (English or metric). Thanks. Ronaldomundo (talk) 15:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree. I cannot compare my measurements with this table to determine what specific model is in my hand, the table is useless unless you specify the unit. --Rejetto (talk) 13:11, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Merging with saz?
I am against this merge. It is true that "saz" and "baglama" are sometimes used interchangeably in Turkey, but it is also understood that "saz" refers to a larger family of instruments, while baglama is the instrument shown in the picture. The confusion here may be due to the use of the same picture in both articles. It might be a good idea to replace the picture in "saz" with one that is more representative of the "saz" family (although I think the current one is fine unless one finds a picture with more than one instrument in it), while also mentioning the varied use of the word in the different countries/languages mentioned in the article. I think the "saz" article should be longer with references to individual instruments often classified under it (sorry I have no time to do this). Any opinions will be valued. Dburak (talk) 16:36, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Saz (in Persian ساز) means Musical instrument in Persian language. But I heard Azeri iranians who use Bağlama and just call it Saz. I think Saz as a musical instrument can be Baglama, dotar or Tanbur. In persian language all these instruments are under Tanbur familly! but in Turkish language it is not like this. I found a good article in a Turkish website . Tanbur is thousand year old I thought maybe we should merge Saz with Tanbur article. Mmehdi.g (talk) 16:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * please review Gopuz article too. Mmehdi.g (talk) 19:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I see. In fact, I know some instances which could be understood as the use of "saz" in Turkish as simply meaning "instrument". It is of course logical that a given people will call their main folk instrument "the instrument", and in these cases, "saz" [I am not sure if a similar logic is possible for the Iranian use of Tanbur]. This suggests to me that the only way to make sense of the "saz" article is to mention that it means "instrument", make a reference to the originating language, mention that the word is used synonymously for a different number of instruments in a variety of languages, and include links to the pages of those instruments. That would make it seem like a dictionary article, but it sounds OK to me. It would also make it easier for people looking for a given instrument, baglama or tanbur, by their common naming as "saz". I would be against merging "saz" with "tanbur" for the same reason I am against the current one. I don't understand the reference to the age of Tanbur, as the issue seems irrelevant. Dburak (talk) 14:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a Persian word: sâz "apparatus; (musical) instrument," from sâzidan, sâxtan "to build, make, fashion; to adapt, adjust, be fit" (from Middle Persian. sâxtan, sâz-, Manichean Parthian s'c'dn "to prepare, to form;" Av. sak- "to understand, to mark," sâcaya- (causative) "to teach"). I dont know enough about other languages maybe people think this is a special musical instrument like Baglama. --Mmehdi.g (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All right then. Can I take it that you agree with me on the "saz" article? May be we should make a reference to the "saz" article and edit it accordingly?Dburak (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In persian language it is not a group of instrument. for example saxophone, guitar, piano, .. all of them are Saz, but in persian. I dont know how should this word be in an english encyclopedia because all these meaning are in Persian. If you speak Turkish or Azeri or a central asian language maybe you can help to clarify if it means a special group of instrument in these regions. I don't know if it means like this. plus I'm not goot enough in write an english article. Mmehdi.g (talk) 13:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It would be absurd to merge the Greek baglama article with the Turkish saz article, as they are compltely different instruments. One might as well merge an article about the trombone with one about bicycles, as they both have metal tubes. The Real Walrus (talk) 17:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

To be fair, stating that the term is used sometimes interchangeably is wrong. There might be a minority whom may refer to this instrument as a 'saz', however as a Turk and living in Turkey attending social gatherings where the baglama is played like clockwork, I can guarantee that not one person refereed to this instrument as a saz. Now I do not care if this is a Persian world that encompasses a variety of instruments. You cannot apply this same logic throughout. It is known as a baglama (thin necked saz), saz ( more or less a guitar). We do not say "Hey look how he plays that (thin necked) saz. Saz, or bağlama, a Turkish stringed instrument on wikis disambegilation page. No sir! Totally differant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.174.12 (talk) 10:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Top down tuning?
I dont know who wrote about Baglama tuning, and I am not happy abot it has to be Baglama and not Saz it stans for sazlar=muzik

it sounds to poilitical I am sick of turkish devide Turkish.

My main thing is Baglama is tuned from bottom up who invented the top down.

and for a quastion on a page about strings Baglama isnt a banjo but big banjo strings may fit.

Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.189.1.75 (talk) 19:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Saz is one form of instrument in Turkey. You cannot say that sazlar=muzik. Totally absurd. Music=Muzik, song=sarki , closes thing for saz would be guitar. You might feel obliged to compare one cultures definition to the next, but please try to refrain as doing so misguides readers.--220.244.174.12 (talk) 11:01, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

The whole "top down" or "bottom up" is confusing. Does "bottom up" mean from lowest to highest frequency? Or does it mean from the string that is closest to the ground when you play it to the one that highest from the ground? And Some of the double or triple strings are in octaves. I would like to see a good explanation in musical notes, rather than just letters, which don't tell you anything about which octave they are in. Eijkhout (talk) 15:12, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

How to translate a language like this ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.65.183.218 (talk) 15:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Clarification Needed
1) What units are the given measurements in? Inches?  Centimeters?  Millimeters? 2) When tunings are given -- for example:  A - D - G -- does that mean the instrument is tuned from lowest pitch to highest pitch in fourths, or it is tuned from lowest pitch to highest pitch in fifths (G-D-A)? Note that /standard convention/ for stringed instrument tunings always places the -lowest- pitch courses first. 3) When courses are multi-strung in octaves, which strings are tuned to the lower octave, and which to the higher? Giving tunings in actualy musical staff notation would solve much of this confusion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.174.105 (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Bağlama scale
The section on the Bağlama scale contains several obvious errors:

 * 1) . The ratios stated don't make mathematical or musical sense - in some cases the numerator is larger than the denominator, in some cases the reverse.
 * 2) . The ratios are are missing at the upper end of the range - not even a complete octave is given, only up to the 7th fret out of 15
 * 3) . The ratios for up to the seventh fret imply that "extra" frets (my term i.e. sub-semitone) are between the 7th and 15th frets. This contradicts the cited reference, which clearly shows diagrams of "extra" frets before the 7th
 * 4) . The cited reference (to just intonation) contains no information to support the assertion that the fret ratios are based on just intonation

The scale section cannot be supported by references, is obviously inconsistent and should be deleted unless it can be completed and justified. I've looked this up in Grove but there is nothing there to support the just intonation theory. I can't find any other references on the open web suggesting this theory either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.151.159 (talk) 22:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Chart
The information provided in the chart, while interesting, is decidedly non-standard for reference works on stringed instruments. "Wire length" is not normally given, but scale -- the distance from nut to bridge saddle -- is a standard measurement, and is missing from this chart. The number of strings and courses, also standard information, is also missing from the chart.

Also, giving a single frequency is unusual, and not all that useful. Rather, the standard or common tuning should be given for each string, with octave designations.

Instruments resembling today's bağlama have been found in archaeological excavations of Sumerian and Hittite mounds in Anatolia dating before Common Era, and in ancient Greek works
This is a cheap attempt to try and cover up the origin of this instrument. The prototypical form of this instrument is still played in Turkey, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan. The above quote is apparently from the website of a Turkish musician and this claim cannot be found on the website. It is also in stark contrast to actual origin of the Baglama as explained in the article (it's a fringe claim). A musician's website is also not a reliable source of information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.135.242 (talk) 17:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

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Saz pronunciation
This article links the pronunciation "[sāz]" to the Help:IPA/Persian page. That page does not include a pronunciation for "ā" so it seems like either some other symbol should be used in place of "ā" ("æ"?) or it should link to another page. --Ericjs (talk) 15:10, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Kamancheh player (by Ibrahim Jabbar-Beik).jpg
 * Painting ney.jpg

Tenorsalih (talk) 05:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC) Comment by Tenorsalih: Despite the fact that Baglama has 24 scale it still perfectly, and distinctively, fits with the western instruments. Ali Ekber Cicek's Haydar Haydar, for example, has a beautiful symphonic version.

title: Talk:Bağlama


text:
Joe Schenck

Joe Schenck may refer to:

 * Joseph M. Schenck (1876–1961), American film studio executive
 * Joe Schenck (1891–1930), half of the vaudeville musical duo Van and Schenck

title: Joe Schenck


text:
Salicaceae

The Salicaceae are the willow family of flowering plants. The traditional family (Salicaceae sensu stricto) included the willows, poplars, aspens, and cottonwoods. Genetic studies summarized by the Angiosperm Phylogeny Group (APG) have greatly expanded the circumscription of the family to contain 56 genera and about 1220 species, including the tropical Scyphostegiaceae and many of the former Flacourtiaceae.

In the Cronquist system, the Salicaceae were assigned to their own order, Salicales, and contained three genera, Salix, Populus, and Chosenia (now a synonym of Salix). Recognized to be closely related to the Violaceae and Passifloraceae, the family is placed by the APG in the order Malpighiales.

Under the new circumscription, most members of the family are trees or shrubs that have simple leaves with alternate arrangement, and temperate members are usually deciduous. Most members have serrate or dentate leaf margins, and many of those that have such toothed margins exhibit salicoid teeth, a salicoid tooth being one in which a vein enters the tooth, expands, and terminates at or near the apex, near which are spherical and glandular protuberances called setae. Sometimes the glands will deflate and appear torus (doughnut) shaped. Some members of the family exhibit violoid or theoid teeth, characters along with presence of an aril and introrse anther dehiscence that are sometimes used to split the family into three families, Salicaceae sensu medio, Samydaceae, and Scyphostegiaceae. Members of the family often have flowers which are reduced and inconspicuous, and all have ovaries that are superior or half-inferior with parietal placentation.

Genera by subfamily and tribe
Salicaceae are divided into three subfamilies, with Salicoideae further divided into seven tribes. Several of these tribes are not monophyletic and await further revision.

Salicoideae
Abatieae Bembicieae Flacourtieae Homalieae Prockieae Saliceae Scolopieae
 * Abatia Ruiz & Pavón (now including Aphaerema)
 * Bembicia Oliver
 * Azara Ruiz & Pavón
 * Bennettiodendron Merrill
 * Carrierea Franchet
 * Dovyalis Arnott
 * Flacourtia L'Heritier
 * Idesia Maximowicz
 * Itoa Hemsley
 * Lasiochlamys Pax & K. Hoffmann
 * Ludia de Jussieu
 * Olmediella Baillon
 * Oncoba Forsskahl
 * Poliothyrsis Oliver
 * Tisonia Baillon
 * Xylosma G. Forster (now including Priamosia)
 * Bartholomaea Standley & Steyermark
 * Bivinia Tulasne
 * Byrsanthus Guillemin
 * Calantica Tulasne
 * Dissomeria Bentham
 * Homalium Jacquin
 * Neopringlea S. Watson
 * Trimeria Harvey
 * Ahernia Merrill
 * Banara Aublet
 * Hasseltia Kunth
 * Hasseltiopsis Sleumer
 * Macrohasseltia L. O. Williams
 * Macrothumia M.H.Alford
 * Neosprucea Sleumer
 * Pineda Ruiz & Pavón
 * Pleuranthodendron L. O. Williams
 * Prockia L.
 * Populus L.
 * †Pseudosalix Boucher, Manchester, & Judd
 * Salix L.
 * Hemiscolopia van Slooten
 * Pseudoscolopia Gilg
 * Scolopia Schreber

Samydoideae

 * Casearia Jacquin (including Hecatostemon, Laetia, Samyda, & Zuelania)
 * Euceraea Martius
 * Irenodendron Alford & Dement
 * Lunania Hooker
 * Neoptychocarpus Buchheim
 * Ophiobotrys Gilg
 * Osmelia Thwaites (now including Pseudosmelia)
 * Piparea Aublet
 * Ryania Vahl
 * Tetrathylacium Poeppig & Endlicher
 * Trichostephanus Gilg

Scyphostegioideae

 * Dianyuea C. Shang et al.
 * Scyphostegia Stapf

Incertae sedis

 * †Saxifragispermum Reid & Chandler
 * †Utkholokia (Cheleb.) Iljinskaja & Chelb.

title: Salicaceae


text:
User:Djmutex/Work list

Pages I have worked on (bold indicates creation; italics indicate a major rewrite) include:

History

 * History of Germany (transformed into a series)
 * Franks
 * Holy Roman Empire
 * Holy Roman Emperor
 * Translatio imperii
 * Holy Roman Empire elector
 * Golden Bull
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 * German Confederation
 * German Empire
 * Battle of Königgratz
 * Helmuth von Moltke
 * Kulturkampf
 * Weimar Republic
 * Alfred Hugenberg
 * Nazi Germany (todo)
 * Night of the Long Knives
 * Adolf Hitler
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 * History of Germany since 1945 (copied content from main article)
 * Red Army Faction

 * List of Frankish Kings (merged from earlier lists)
 * List of German Kings and Emperors (merged from earlier lists)
 * Reichstag (building)
 * Reichstag fire
 * Marinus van der Lubbe
 * Reichstag (institution)

 * Gleichschaltung
 * Reichstag Fire Decree
 * Enabling Act
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 * World War II (merged with other pages)

Politics

 * Politics of Germany
 * Chancellor of Germany
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 * Constructive Vote of No Confidence
 * Herta Däubler-Gmelin, Hans-Dietrich Genscher, Hannelore Kohl, Helmut Kohl, Otto Schily, Helmut Schmidt, Gerhard Schröder, Franz Josef Strauß

 * List of political parties in Germany
 * SPD, CDU, CSU, Greens, FDP, PDS

 * Constitution
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 * Der Spiegel
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Music

 * Herbie Hancock
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Places
In Germany:

 * Aachen Cathedral
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 * History of Berlin (copied from main Berlin page)
 * Kreuzberg
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 * Museum Island
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 * Berlin victory column
 * Hanover
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 * Frank Gehry
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Generally, I'd love to see more about famous places of romanesque architecture in Germany.

Elsewhere:

 * Strand Book Store

Miscellany

 * History of Microsoft Windows
 * OS/2

 * Typography
 * Typeface
 * Bodoni
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 * plus a bunch of samples for other typeface pages.
 * Emphasis (typography)
 * Quotation mark

 * ß
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 * List of German newspapers
 * Bild-Zeitung
 * Süddeutsche Zeitung
 * Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung
 * Die Welt
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 * Die Tageszeitung
 * Die Zeit

 * Schtonk!

 * List of male actors
 * List of female actors
 * Michelle Pfeiffer
 * Rebecca Romijn-Stamos
 * Uma Thurman

 * David E. Kelley

title: User:Djmutex/Work list