text:
Owen Roberts International Airport

Owen Roberts International Airport is an airport serving Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands. It is the main international airport for the Cayman Islands as well as the main base for Cayman Airways. The airport is named after British Royal Air Force (RAF) Wing Commander Owen Roberts, a pioneer of commercial aviation in the country, and is one of the two entrance ports to the Cayman Islands.

Owen Roberts International Airport was the only international airport remaining in the Caribbean to have an open-air observation "waving gallery" until January 2017 when it was closed due to reconstruction. The upgraded Owen Roberts International Airport passenger terminal no longer has an outdoor observation "waving gallery".

The runway length includes a 130 m displaced threshold on Runway 26. The Grand Cayman non-directional beacon (Ident: ZIY) is located 1.1 nmi short of the approach threshold of Runway 08. The Grand Cayman VOR/DME (Ident: GCM) is located 0.25 nmi short of Runway 08.

History
Wg Cdr. Owen Roberts was a Wing Commander in the Royal Air Force, during World War II. Following the war, Roberts retired and later founded Caribbean International Airways (CIA). By 1950, Roberts had established regular service between Grand Cayman and Tampa, Florida; Kingston, Jamaica; and British Honduras (now Belize). During the early 1950s, Caribbean International Airlines was operating weekly seaplane service between Grand Cayman and both Tampa and Kingston with Consolidated PBY Catalina amphibian aircraft as the airstrip on Grand Cayman had yet to be completed. Roberts worked to lobby Cayman Islands Commissioners Ivor Smith and Andrew Gerrard to build airfields on all three of the Cayman Islands. In 1952, construction started on an official airstrip at an estimated cost of £93,000 to construct airports on all three Cayman Islands, a 5000 ft runway, along with a terminal was constructed on Grand Cayman at the cost of £100,000. Owen Roberts had acquired two used Lockheed Lodestar twin-prop airliners purchased to keep up with the competition whose interest was now piqued by the soon-to-be completed airfield at George Town.

The inaugural flight of CIA, Ltd. from Kingston, Jamaica to Grand Cayman was set for 10 April 1953. Tragically, however, the Lodestar piloted by Roberts crashed on takeoff from Palisadoes Airport. 13 people, including the 40-year-old Roberts, were killed. The only survivor of the crash was Roberts' brother-in-law, Lt. Col. Edward Remington-Hobbs. Roberts was survived by a wife, Patricia, and their two daughters, in London. His grandson unfortunately passed before him, his name was Will Roberts. He died in a car crash in East End with his best friend Spencer Grainger. The Grand Cayman Island Airport was later named after the late Wg Cdr. Roberts in his honour.

On 21 August 2016, the weather station at the airport recorded a temperature of 34.9 C, which is the highest temperature to have ever been recorded in the Cayman Islands.

Previous expansion projects
In 2007, the Cayman Islands Government announced plans to expand and upgrade the existing airport. Plans include the expansion of the check-in area, the purchase of a new X-ray machine and baggage screening machine as well as the employment of additional passenger screening staff. Phase 1 of the project, the expansion of the airport's car parks and the airport's pick-up and drop-off locations have already been completed. Additional renovations completed in 2012 include refurbishing the departure hall interior and livening up the passport control and customs hall with aquatic paintings and use of an aggressive digital advertising campaign in the baggage claim area.

Current expansion projects

In 2014, Airport Authority unveiled a new plan to perform major renovations at Owen Roberts International Airport as part of a master plan to renovate and redevelop all three Cayman Islands airports. The new plan would expand the current terminal building, passenger parking, public parking, staff parking, aprons, Taxi area, extend the current runway and in the middle to long term build a second terminal building called the Green space Terminal and a parallel taxiway. This new expansion will allow passenger airlines to fly their newer and larger aircraft to Owen Roberts International. British Airways currently serves the airport with Boeing 777-200 wide-body aircraft. The BA operated 777 is the largest aircraft operating scheduled passenger service from Owen Roberts at the present time with flights to and from London Heathrow Airport (LHR) via an intermediate stop in Nassau, Bahamas in both directions. The expansion can also allow other airlines with wide-body, long haul aircraft, such as the Airbus A330, Airbus A340, Boeing 747-400 and the Boeing 787-9, the opportunity to fly to Grand Cayman.

The expansion work began in 2015 with a temporarily extended departure hall being added to accommodate passenger traffic while the tendering process is completed and construction commenced. On 9 March 2015, the Florida-based company RS&H, which is partnered with the Cayman Island Airport Authority, unveiled a new design for Owen Roberts International. This new design is based mostly on the design criteria created by Canadian firm WS&P in 2014. Work on Owen Roberts estimated to cost around some $55 Million KYD. On 23 June 2015, it was confirmed by CIAA CEO Albert Anderson that construction work would start in early August 2015 and is estimated to be finished in generally 2 years. Late in August 2015, it was determined that work would have to be delayed to early September. A groundbreaking ceremony took place on 10 September 2015. In late October 2015, it was announced that phase 2 of the expansion would start in the early part of 2016.

Phase 1 of the expansion was completed on time and on budget by June 2016. Phase 2 began in July 2016. Part of the phase 2 reconstruction was the removal of the famous and only A-frame open-air observation "waving gallery" in the region as it was closed to the public in January 2017. The expansion of the Terminal Building was completed in late February 2019 and grand reopening was on 27 March by Prince Charles on his royal visit to Grand Cayman and Cayman Brac on 27 & 28 March 2019. The expansion of the Apron area and strengthening and lengthening of the runway and taxiways project began in Summer 2019. A bid for contractors for the runway lengthening project commenced and companies had been chosen. In late 2019 into early 2020 movement of wildlife, clearing of area and filling of the ponds west of the runway, west of threshold 08 had commenced, and construction of runway lengthening and apron expansion has begun. This phase expected was completed by June 2020. Due to faster than expected passenger capacity of the newly redeveloped terminal building. Minister of Tourism announced that the phase of the Airport Master Plan that would see to the development of the second terminal building, also known as the Greenspace Terminal Building has been pushed forwards, to after the runway and apron lengthening and expansion phase. The Greenspace Terminal Building development will also include new Apron development, new runway extension considerations, and jet bridges. In addition to the Greenspace Terminal Building development, additional expansion to seating on the second floor of the redeveloped terminal will be done in the short term.

As a result of the extension of the Grand Cayman Airport, airlines have extended their flight schedules. Recently, American Airlines has added a new nonstop service to Boston, Chicago, and New York-JFK. Delta Air Lines has also expanded its schedules adding new flights to Grand Cayman from New York-JFK and adding additional frequencies from other hubs. Southwest has added service to Baltimore, Fort Lauderdale, and Houston Hobby airport. In addition, United Airlines has drastically expanded its schedules in recent months. This includes new daily nonstop flights from Newark, New Jersey to Grand Cayman through June and twice daily service from Newark in the high season of April. American Airlines flies a mix of Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 family aircraft to the island, Delta Airlines flies Boeing 757-200 aircraft, Boeing 737-800/900ER aircraft, and Airbus A320 Family aircraft, JetBlue flies Airbus A320 Family aircraft, Southwest flies a mix of Boeing 737 aircraft and United Airlines flies a mixture of Boeing 737-700/800/900ER aircraft. Cayman Airways, as a result of airport expansion, is planning new routes from the Cayman Islands and is exploring destinations in Canada and Los Angeles, California. The airport expansion brings the gate total to nine gates. Cayman Airways usually uses gates 1–3, American Airlines usually uses Gates 6–9, Jetblue usually uses gate 4 or 5, United Uses Gates 1–4, Delta uses gates 1–5, and Southwest uses Gate 6. All gates deplane via airstairs or ramps and gate assignments do change on occasion. British Airways' Twice weekly service on the Boeing 777 uses a specially configured Gate 1.

As of 30 November 2020, Owen Roberts International Airport new development project has seen the completion of the 797 ft Runway extension from 08 to near Crewe Road, taking the 7,070 ft runway to the full runway length now 7,867 ft, and the fully paved strip now 8261 ft. Also a new taxiway loop at the end of the runway extension near 08 that saw the movement of taxiways Alpha and Bravo moved to the loop, Charlie and Delta taxiways moved to where the former Alpha and Bravo taxiways were located leading to the general aviation terminal, and Echo and Foxtrot added to where the former Charlie and Delta were leading to the commercial terminal. Due to the build of the runway extension and taxiway loop closer to Crewe Road. A jet blast deflector was erected around the taxiway loop and at the end of the new runway extension dividing the runway from the road. Along with the new taxiway loop and shift in taxiway locations a new parallel taxiway was built and completed creating taxiway Gulf. Also completed in 2020 was the apron extension to the east on the commercial terminal area expanding the aircraft parking stands from 8 to 14. These extensions were opened for operation on 24 February 2021.

Cayman Airways
Cayman Airways, the national flag air carrier of the Cayman Islands, has its operational base at the airport. The airline began flights in August 1968 following the purchase of 51% of Cayman Brac Airways by the Cayman Islands Government from LACSA, an air carrier based in Costa Rica. The first aircraft type operated by Cayman Airways was a Douglas DC-3. International service was initially operated to Miami with a leased Douglas DC-6 propliner and the first jet operations were flown between the airport and Kingston, Jamaica with a British Aircraft Corporation BAC One-Eleven leased from LACSA. In 1972, the airline was operating its own stretched BAC One-Eleven series 500 jets on nonstop flights to Miami and Kingston as well as operating Douglas DC-3 service between Grand Cayman, Cayman Brac and Little Cayman. Cayman Airways began nonstop flights to Houston via Intercontinental Airport in the late 1970s and by 1982 had replaced its BAC One-Eleven twin jets with Boeing 727-200 jetliners. Other aircraft types operated by the airline over the years included Boeing 727-100, 737-200, 737-400 and Douglas DC-8 jets. Cayman Airways currently operates four Boeing 737 MAX 8 jetliners with nonstop service to destinations in Cuba, Honduras, Jamaica and the U.S. as well as local flights to Cayman Brac. These jetliners replaced the four 737-300 aircraft that the airline previously operated, the last of which being taken out of service in April 2021. Cayman Airways Express operates two commuter de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter and two Saab 340B turboprop aircraft between Grand Cayman, Cayman Brac and Little Cayman. Cayman Airways Express is to eventually retire both of its DHC 6-300 Twin Otters and was also planning to add another Saab 340B to its fleet. Cayman Airways Express was also planning to expand on short haul regional flights but has not yet announced any new schedules. Cayman Airways also operates 1 Cargo flight that flies from Miami to Grand Cayman using a Convair CV-580 twin Prop aircraft.

The initiation of Cayman Airways flights to Panama City, Panama was anticipated to allow Brazilian tourists to travel to the Cayman Islands via Copa Airlines flights to Panama with connecting passengers then continuing on Cayman Airways flights to the airport.

Historical airline service
Grand Cayman was being served with scheduled passenger flights by the early 1950s when British West Indian Airways (BWIA, which is now Caribbean Airlines) in association with British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC, which is now British Airways) was operating one round trip flight a week on a routing of Kingston, Jamaica - Grand Cayman - Belize City with a Vickers Viking twin-prop aircraft with this service being timed to connect to other BOAC and BWIA flights in Kingston. LACSA (which now operates as Avianca Costa Rica) was providing service by the mid-1950s with two round trip flights a week, one with a routing of San Jose, Costa Rica - Grand Cayman - Miami flown with a Convair 340 and the other with a routing of San Jose, Costa Rica - Grand Cayman - Havana, Cuba - Miami flown with a Curtiss C-46. By 1957, BWIA in association with BOAC had added Montego Bay, Jamaica as a stop on their Kingston-Belize City route flown weekly via Grand Cayman. BWIA then introduced nonstop flights to Miami and in 1958 was operating Vickers Viscount turboprop aircraft on a round trip routing of Kingston - Montego Bay - Grand Cayman - Miami twice a week. By 1963, British West Indian was operating daily Viscount propjet service into the airport with a round trip routing of Miami (MIA)-Grand Cayman (GCM)-Montego Bay (MBJ)-Kingston (KIN)-San Juan (SJU)-Antigua (ANU)-Barbados (BGI)-Port of Spain, Trinidad (POS). In 1964, LACSA was operating Douglas DC-6B propliner flights on a routing of San Jose, Costa Rica - Grand Cayman - Miami with round trip service twice weekly.

The jet age arrived in Grand Cayman during the late 1960s when BWIA introduced Boeing 727-100 "Sunjet" service with a routing of Port of Spain, Trinidad - Barbados - Antigua - St. Lucia - San Juan, Puerto Rico - Kingston, Jamaica - Grand Cayman - Miami operated twice a week with a third weekly flight also being flown with the 727 nonstop between Grand Cayman and Miami. By 1970, LACSA had introduced jet service as well flying British Aircraft Corporation BAC One-Eleven twin jets nonstop to Miami eight times a week and also nonstop to San Jose, Costa Rica twice a week. LACSA continued to serve Grand Cayman through the late 1970s with nonstop flights to Miami operated with stretched BAC One-Eleven series 500 jets. By 1980, Air Jamaica was operating McDonnell Douglas DC-9-30 jet service nonstop to Kingston three days a week with a nonstop flight from Montego Bay being operated once a week. Another international airline flying from the airport was Faucett Perú which in 1985 was operating Douglas DC-8 jetliners between Lima, Peru and Miami three days a week via an intermediate stop in Grand Cayman. In 1993, SAHSA, an air carrier based in Honduras, was operating nonstop Boeing 737-200 jet service to La Ceiba, Honduras twice a week with continuing direct service to Tegucigalpa, Honduras. By 1994, Air Jamaica was operating Boeing 727-200 jet service on a routing of Montego Bay - Kingston - Grand Cayman three days a week while Trans-Jamaican Airlines (which subsequently became Air Jamaica Express) was flying ATR 42 propjets on a routing of Montego Bay - Kingston - Grand Cayman - Belize City - Cancún, Mexico twice a week.

The first U.S.-based air carrier to serve Grand Cayman was Southern Airways which began service during the mid-1970s with nonstop Douglas DC-9-10 jet service between the airport and Miami. By the late 1970s, Southern was also operating a weekly nonstop between Fort Lauderdale and Grand Cayman flown with the DC-9 in addition to its daily nonstop service to and from Miami. Southern then merged with another U.S. airline to form Republic Airlines (1979–1986) which in 1979 was continuing to serve the airport with nonstop McDonnell Douglas DC-9-30 flights to Miami. During the early and mid-1980s Republic was operating larger McDonnell Douglas DC-9-50 jetliners on its Grand Cayman-Miami route. In 1986 Republic was acquired by and merged into Northwest Airlines which in turn continued to serve Grand Cayman. In 1987, Northwest was flying McDonnell Douglas DC-9-30 jets from the airport to Miami, Memphis, Tennessee and Montego Bay, Jamaica with daily nonstop service to all three destinations. U.S.-based regional air carriers Red Carpet Airlines and successor AeroSun International operated service between the airport and Tampa with Convair 440 prop aircraft with up to six flights a week during the early 1980s.

By 1989, American Airlines, Eastern Air Lines and Pan Am had joined Northwest with regard to operating daily nonstop service between Grand Cayman and Miami with American, Eastern and Pan Am all flying Boeing 727-200 jetliners on the route. Locally based air carrier Cayman Airways was also continuing to fly nonstop service with Boeing 737-400 jets on its core Grand Cayman-Miami route at this time in the face of considerable competition posed by these four U.S.-based airlines with all five airlines operating a combined total of sixty (60) departures a week from the airport to Miami in December 1989. By 1994, American had added daily nonstop service to Raleigh/Durham, North Carolina flown with a Boeing 727-200 and had also introduced Boeing 757-200 jetliners on the Grand Cayman-Miami route while USAir (which was subsequently renamed US Airways and has now been merged into American Airlines) was operating nonstop flights to Charlotte, North Carolina three days a week as well as nonstop service to Tampa flown four days a week with both routes being operated with Boeing 727-200 jets.

By the mid-1990s, British Airways had begun operating nonstop service from London Gatwick Airport once a week as well as weekly one stop service from London Gatwick via Nassau with both flights being operated with McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30 wide body jetliners. British Airways continues to serve Grand Cayman at the present time with direct Boeing 777-200 wide body flights from London Heathrow Airport via a stop in Nassau.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Owen Roberts International Airport


text:
Talk:Bulletin Board (album)

Untitled
This page could use a disambiguation in my opinion. Dmsar 23:16 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * I think actually a disambig page should be lowercased (bulletin board). - Hephaestos 23:22 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I would take this on, but a bit iffy still. Dmsar 23:24 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I picked an easy, infrequently used (I assume) article with few links to get my competence up so I could get over the learning-curve of handling such a situation without begging someone else to do it and not getting involved in too many current topics. I have become fairly proficient at aspects of this as I have gone along (as you can see in my edit history). But being told obvious stuff instead of real "nuts-and-bolts" more difficult (to me) operations makes me say "why bother". Have fun. Bye. Dmsar 00:05 18 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PF Bulletin Board.jpg
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title: Talk:Bulletin Board (album)


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Norman Manley International Airport

Norman Manley International Airport, formerly Palisadoes Airport, is an international airport serving Kingston, Jamaica, and is located south of the island 19 km away from the centre of New Kingston. It is the second busiest airport in the country after Sangster International Airport, recording 629,400 arriving passengers in 2020 and 830,500 in 2021. Over 130 international flights a week depart from Norman Manley International Airport. Named in honour of Jamaican statesman Norman Manley, it is a hub for Caribbean Airlines. It is located on the Palisadoes tombolo in outer Kingston Harbour; it fronts the city on one side and the Caribbean Sea on the other.

History
Jamaica has long had a vibrant civil aviation industry, with the first flight reported in the island on 21 December 1911. This was eight years after the world recorded its first powered flight by the Wright brothers. Nineteen years later, on 3 December 1930, the first commercial flight, a Consolidated Commodore twin-engine flying boat operated by Pan American Airways (which eventually became Pan American World Airways), landed in Kingston Harbour.

The year 1934 was also another historic period for the nation's aviation industry when Dr. Albert Ernest Forsythe and C. Alfred "Chief" Anderson (the fathers of African American aviation) arrived in Jamaica from Cuba. This was the first time a land plane arrived at the island by air.

The significant growth in the aviation sector led to the establishment of the Civil Aviation Department (CAD) in 1947. One year later, in 1948, the Kingston Air Traffic Control Centre (KATCC) was established. In the same year, Palisadoes Airport (now Norman Manley International) and Montego Bay Airport (now Sangster International) were established.

The airport was featured in the first James Bond film, Dr. No (1962).

From October 1968, it was the hub for Jamaica's flag carrier, Air Jamaica, until that airline ceased operations during 2015.

Existing terminal renovation
The contract relating to additions and alterations to the departure concourse has been awarded to Kier Construction Limited and is valued at $161.5M. The work will include construction of a new canopy, north of the existing check-in concourse and departure lounge; construction of an additional drop-off pavement area and provision for access by wheelchair passengers; new lifts, electrical air conditioning, public address, fire detection and fire fighting services; and alterations to the existing check-in concourse and mezzanine level to include a new security post and postal agency.

The architect / engineer for the designs are Llewelyn Davies, Jabobs Consultancy & Leading Edge Aviation Planning Professionals Limited (LEAPP), in conjunction with Peter Jervis and Associates Limited and Grace Ashley and Associates.

Masterplan
The project seeks to increase the airport's capacity to cater for projected air and passenger traffic at an acceptable level of service to the year 2023. The project is part of a 20-year masterplan which will be implemented in three phases (1A, 1B and 2) and will cost about $130M. By 2022, it will have involved a virtual reconstruction of the entire airport.

The first phase of construction and renovation was completed in 2007. Construction started in June 2006; the intention is for the first phase – which is supposed to make the airport an IATA category C airport – was completed in 2007. The European Investment Bank is providing $40M (2006) for the project and the Caribbean Development Bank has approved a loan of $11m (June 2006) for the new project.

Phase 1A
Phase 1A commenced planning in 2004 and was completed in 2007 at an estimated cost of $80M (ground-breaking took place in September 2006). This phase comprises a new departures building at the eastern end of the present terminal to accommodate expansion to the present departure concourse, security screening station with space to accommodate explosives detection equipment, out-going immigration, retail concessions and departure lounge.

Additionally a new multi-level passenger finger (pier) that enables the separation of arriving and departing passengers, as required by security regulations, was included.

Other items in this phase included:
 * Nine passenger loading bridges at the new finger (pier)
 * Upgraded roadway system and expanded public car park
 * Major rehabilitation of the existing departures concourse and related underground services infrastructure
 * Major rehabilitation and upgrading of the terminal arrivals area, including immigration hall, customs hall, arrivals arcade, arrivals duty-free shops and offices
 * Replacement and upgrading of airport systems – public address, access control, flight information, baggage information, security control and other airport IT systems
 * Cargo warehouse complex (the first phase of this complex, called the NMIA cargo and logistics centre, was completed in 2005)

Phase 1B
Phase 1B was completed in 2010, and cost approximately $23M. Works under this phase included:
 * Further upgrading of existing buildings
 * Construction of a new arrivals area
 * Installation of new baggage handling facilities
 * Movement of the General Aviation Centre, the fire station and other support facilities
 * Airside works including the expansion of aircraft parking stands
 * Extension of the cargo and maintenance taxiway

Phase 2
Phase 2, which is the final phase of the project, commenced in 2013 and is to end in 2022. This phase will involve additional improvement and maintenance works to the terminal, landside, airfield and support areas of the facility at a cost of $9M.

Accidents and incidents

 * On 10 April 1953, a Caribbean International Airways Lockheed Lodestar 18-56-23 piloted by Captain Owen Roberts lost an engine on takeoff, climbed to 100–200 feet entering a slight banking turn and crashed into the sea. A failure of the left engine which was proven to be due to the cracking of the accessory drive gear; proved to be the cause of the accident. 13 on board, including the pilot, were killed. There was only one known survivor.
 * On 17 July 1960, the captain of a Vickers Viscount of Cubana de Aviación hijacked the aircraft on a flight from José Martí International Airport, Havana, to Miami International Airport, Florida. The aircraft landed at Palisadoes Airport where the captain requested political asylum.
 * On 22 December 2009, American Airlines Flight 331, a Boeing 737-800, overshot the runway shortly after 10:00pm during a heavy rain storm and broke up into three pieces, finally coming to a stop approximately 15–20 feet from the sea. All passengers and crew exited the aircraft safely.

title: Norman Manley International Airport


text:
Talk:Angers

Untitled
''Angers, in the département of Maine-et-Loire, in France, is one of Europe's most beautiful cities. ''

Isn't that too subjective? I think that there are thousands of beautiful cities and they cannot be classified as "beautiful", "ugly" etc. webkid 23:20 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I agree. I'll modify this part. Fransvannes 14:14, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Possible misconception
In the introduction it is stated (The area surrounding Angers is more popularly known by its pre-revolutionary, provincial name, Anjou.).

This might be interpreted as Angers being the centre of Anjou, which it is not. Maybe better to phrase as Angers is located in the French region known by its pre-revolutionary, provincial name, Anjou. Mrwooster 03:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you give references to your claims or a clear explanation? As far as I know Angers is more or less in the center of Maine-et-Loire that has roughly the same borders as Anjou county (later promoted to duchy, Anjou extended a bit eastward from the actual borders and in the southern part of Mayenne departement (Haut Anjou Mayennais)). If not the geographical centre, at least it was the capital, economic and cultural centre of Anjou. In addition, Maine-et-Loire is still often referred to as Anjou. Blastwizard 11:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it appears that you are right. It seems that I mixed up Anjou, with Pays de la Loire, which does encapsulate Anjou and other regions. Apologies. Mrwooster 14:00, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand your confusion. FYI, a region in France is an administrative subdivision, at a higher level than departement, the Pays de la Loire region is made of five departements (Vendee, Loire-Atlantique, Maine-et-Loire, Mayenne and Sarthe). It is therefore misleading to use the term region when talking about geographical parts of France as they can be easily confused with the administrative terminology. In addition, it is almost coincidental that Anjou and Maine-et-Loire geographically overlap, as most administrative subdivisions of France do not have an historical meaning and were created at the French Revolution to break away from the post-feudal organisation of the territory during Ancient Regime. That is the case of Loire-Atlantique, the southern part is historically part of Vendee and the northern part was historically in Brittany. Blastwizard 17:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info, sorry about the confusion. Mrwooster 20:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Source of this article
I've been doing various edits on this page today and then noticed that this article is basically a copy of the article on Angers from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britanicca. Is this common practice in Wikipedia to lift stuff word for word from the 1911 EB? I know that the 1911 EB is in the public domain, but it seems that word for word copying is not the best idea unless we quote the text.

Beyond this, I think that the article needs a major overhaul. Lots has changed since 1911. I'm going to start doing some research to this effect.--Vitamin D 2 July 2005 18:41 (UTC)
 * It's accepted practice, though it's best treated as a starting point (especially as the 1911 Britannia has some rather stilted English, and inaccuracies and omissions). (Note the template at the end.) Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 2 July 2005 21:56 (UTC)

History
In the paragraph on history, the article states that in the twelth century it became part of the Angevin empire of Plantagenet Kings of England. I think this statement is the wrong way round, as it is the count of Anjou who became King of England. The accession to the throne of England by counts of Anjou, was due to the fact that Henri I didn't have a heir to the throne, so he arranged with Geoffrey Plantagenet to marry his daughter Matilda, they gave Henri I three grandchildren, the eldest of whom became Henri II. One could say that Angers is the cradle of the Angevin dynasty. --Blastwizard 02:58, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Education
Hmm, very strange, it looks like UCO is the main university; Universite d'Angers, the state run university is hardly mentioned in the article. Last time I checked UCO had 12,000 student and the state university closer to 19,000 and is hardly mentioned, seems partial or disguised advertising. Maybe someone should look into that. Blastwizard 12:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

External link
The external link labelled 'Angers info' seems to link to a page on travel information for Europe as a whole, and following the link on that to Angers doesn't lead anywhere. Can we delete it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.235.213.160 (talk) 12:43, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

ENGVAR
Some inconsistency's popped up (mostly thanks to the default-UK convert template, I imagine), but this edit established the usage of the page as American English. Kindly maintain it consistently pending a new consensus. — Llywelyn II   00:15, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Timeline of Angers
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 18:30, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

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Continental Micronesia

Continental Micronesia, Inc. (CMI ) was a Guamanian company which was a wholly owned subsidiary of Continental Airlines. It operated daily flights to Honolulu, Hawaii, as well as international services to Asia, Micronesia and Australia from its hub at Antonio B. Won Pat International Airport on Guam, a U.S. territory in the western Pacific Ocean. During its final years, the airline, a Delaware corporation, was headquartered in the old terminal building at Won Pat International Airport in Tamuning, Guam.

On December 22, 2010, as a result of the Continental-United Airlines merger, the FAA approved the combination of Continental Micronesia's air carrier operations with Continental's under the single Part 121 operating certificate of Continental; although Continental Micronesia remained as a corporation, all flights were then operated directly by Continental Airlines. This step was intended to simplify future integration steps between Continental and United. The callsign, ICAO and IATA codes were changed to reflect the new operating certificate.

As of 2012, the Continental Micronesia employee group, now a subset of United Continental Holdings, had 1,222 employees. The subsidiary was merged into United effective April 1, 2017. On June 27, 2019 the subsidiary's parent company name was changed from United Continental Holdings to United Airlines Holdings.

Code data
Continental Micronesia flights used the regular Continental "CO" code on ticketing systems and for frequent-flyer benefit accounting, but used its ICAO code "CMI" and callsign "Air Mike" with air traffic control authorities. In airport terminals, Continental Micronesia flights were listed separately (from Continental) with its IATA code "CS". During the final decade, three airports had both "Air Mike" and mainline Continental present: Hong Kong, Tokyo and Honolulu.

History
The airline was established by Continental and other regional shareholders in the former U.S. Trust Territory and started operations on May 16, 1968, as Air Micronesia, hence the nickname and callsign "Air Mike". Service was started with a Boeing 727-100 jetliner, number 475, which was nicknamed "Ju-Ju," and a Douglas DC-6B propliner. It also operated two Grumman SA-16/ HU-16 Albatross amphibians to fly from Chuuk (Truk) to Pohnpei (Ponape), until an airfield could be built that could accommodate the 727. The 727's underside was coated with teflon, due to it having to operate on coral runways. Additionally, the plane had to carry spare parts and a mechanic, as well as open-water survival gear and (beginning in 1975) onboard doppler radar, then a rarity. The airline also operated Boeing 727-100 Combi aircraft models which were capable of transporting freight pallets on the main deck of the jetliner just aft of the cockpit in addition to passengers seated in the rear coach compartment. By 1983, Continental Micronesia was operating all-passenger Boeing 727-100 and 727-200 aircraft in addition to mixed passenger/freight 727-100 Combi aircraft from its Guam hub.

William H. Stewart of the Saipan Tribune stated that the airline's foundation "in particular" "was probably the single most important factor in the future development of what were once remote and isolated islands in the Pacific." Stewart added that the jets "distorted the traveler's impression of time and distance and brought the islands closer to major market areas in Asia." The airline had a virtual monopoly in the Micronesia region. In the 1970s, each district that the airline flew to had an entirely Micronesian employee base, with the exception of Saipan, which housed the airline's headquarters. William H. Stewart of the Saipan Tribune said the airline "was the only travel link many had with the world beyond the horizon."

In the early 1980s, the airline started service from Guam to Japan. As Continental's share and roles in Air Mike changed, the airline's name became "Continental Air Micronesia." Eventually, Continental owned 100% of Air Mike, which at one point provided the only scheduled service directly between Guam and any point in the 50 United States (namely, to/from Honolulu, Hawaii) although other airlines, notably Pan Am, Braniff International and South Pacific Island Airways, had attempted to provide nonstop service between Guam and Honolulu.

Since May 1987, the company had the contract to provide passenger and cargo service from Honolulu and Guam to the states of Kosrae, Pohnpei, Chuuk and Yap.

Before being headquartered in Guam, Continental Micronesia was headquartered in Saipan, Northern Mariana Islands. As time passed, the airline's Saipan traffic decreased due to the 1986 breakup of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, which was subdivided into smaller political units. Because of the breakup, fewer people needed to travel to Saipan, which had been the capital of the trust territory.

In 1995, Continental Airlines acquired the 9% of the company that it did not already own for $72 million from a group headed by the late Larry Hillblom.

2000 to 2009
By 2003, the Guam International Airport Authority moved commuter airlines out of Antonio B. Won Pat International Airport's Commuter Terminal and leased the entire facility to Continental. In 2003, it flew from Honolulu to Guam, and from Guam to numerous PacRim and Pacific island destinations.

As of 2004, most of the airline's employees were Guam-based, due to the location of the corporate headquarters and the airline's main hub. By 2005 Continental Micronesia's business on the island of Saipan had decreased, prompting layoffs in Saipan.

Continental Micronesia employed 1,500 people and was Guam's largest private-sector employer. It operated 236 departures each week between 23 cities.

Massachusetts-based Cape Air began services in the Mariana Islands under the Continental Connection banner on July 1, 2004. Soon afterward, Continental Micronesia eliminated most jet services to Saipan in favor of Cape Air's smaller-sized aircraft and increased frequency.

In 2008, Continental Micronesia generated profits, operating a "niche" Guam-Honolulu route. In addition Japanese tourists, wanting to save money, decided to travel to locations closer to Japan for vacation, so Continental Micronesia gained Japanese passengers. As of that year the airline's annual payroll in Guam was $90 million ($ when adjusted for inflation). Thirty percent of the airline's business came from its 4,300-mile island-hopper route, which began in Honolulu, made five stops and ended—14 hours and 10 minutes later—in Hagatna, Guam's capital city.

In May 2008, expected subsequent military buildup and population growth could have led to an expansion of Continental Micronesia flights to and from Guam. However, on June 12, 2008, Continental's announcement of cuts of services, routes and destinations due to high fuel prices included termination of flights to Hong Kong (which has since resumed) and Bali. Also among the cuts is the termination of the Saipan-Manila flights on July 15 which is the last remaining Air Mike flight for Saipan, the airline's original hub 40 years ago. According to an opinion columnist for of the Saipan Tribune, the “declared” reason for the cancellation of the Saipan-Manila route was the fact that NCLEX tests were now available in Manila, so Filipino nurses no longer had to travel to Saipan to take the test. Before the flight's cancellation, the flight also served medical referrals from the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands to Manila and non-USA visa alien contract workers who were unable to transit to their final destinations via Guam; the author opined that the alien workers “particularly were Air Micronesia’s captive audience.” With only Continental Connection/Cape Air services left, Continental closed its Saipan city ticket office on the same day.

In 2009, the company began operating nonstop service between Honolulu and Nadi, Fiji.

2010 and beyond
The United-Continental merger resulted in the elimination of Continental Micronesia's operating certificate as the new entity worked towards a single air operator's certificate (SOC). The combination of Continental Micronesia's operating certificate into Continental's was approved on December 22, 2010.

United Airlines announced on March 22, 2017 that the "paper" merger would be completed on April 1, 2017 that would officially fold Continental Micronesia into United Airlines. It was previously a subsidiary of United Continental Holdings.

Since then, flights to Micronesia are now directly operated by United Airlines.

Destinations
Beside providing transportation within Micronesia and between the region and the United States, Continental Micronesia flew to cities in Japan (the region's main source of tourists) and other Pacific Rim destinations.

The airline flew to nine Japanese cities, more than any other U.S. carrier. The airline also operated a five stop "island-hopper" route between Honolulu and Guam. The 4300 mi route had an average duration of 14 hours and 10 minutes. Due to the special requirements of the route, each aircraft flying on this route houses an extra pilot, an extra flight attendant, a mechanic, and extra spare parts in case of a mechanical failure. Historically the airline received little competition on the "island-hopper" route. Continental Micronesia provided the only scheduled jet service in the Federated States of Micronesia and Majuro, Marshall Islands. The airline's route network linked to the network of its parent company at Honolulu, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, and Newark.

Due to small island populations and the corresponding amount of passenger traffic, many of Continental Micronesia's routes were flown less than daily (some as infrequent as twice weekly). The only routes with daily flights were between Guam and Fukuoka, Honolulu, Manila, Nagoya, Palau, and Tokyo.

Fleet
As of early 2010, Continental Micronesia operated 12 Boeing 737 and 4 Boeing 767-400 aircraft (in Pacific Configuration) from Antonio B. Won Pat International Airport on Guam. The aircraft were all owned by Continental Airlines and were rotated to Continental Micronesia.

Former fleet

 * Boeing 747
 * McDonnell Douglas DC-10
 * Boeing 727 - includes all-passenger Boeing 727-100 and 727-200 aircraft as well as Boeing 727-100 mixed passenger/freight Combi aircraft
 * Boeing 757-200
 * Douglas DC-6B (prop aircraft initially assigned to Air Micronesia by Continental Airlines)
 * Grumman SA-16 (prop amphibian aircraft initially operated by Air Micronesia)

Accidents and incidents

 * On November 21, 1980, Air Micronesia Flight 614, operated by a Boeing 727-100C registered N18479, crashed while landing at Yap International Airport on the island of Yap in Micronesia. The aircraft landed heavily 13 ft short of the airport's runway and the right landing gear was torn off. The Boeing 727 then slid along the runway, gradually veering off the side into the jungle. It stopped about 1700 ft from the touchdown point and a fire broke out which destroyed the aircraft. All of the 67 passengers and 6 crew members on board evacuated the burning aircraft and survived the accident.

title: Continental Micronesia


text:
Linate Airport

Milan Linate Airport is a city airport located in Milan, the second-largest city and largest urban area of Italy. It served 7,719,977 passengers in 2022 with 101,956 aircraft movements in 2022 making it one of the busiest airports in Italy. It is the third busiest airport in the Milan metropolitan area in terms of passengers numbers after Malpensa and Bergamo and the second busiest in terms of aircraft movements.

Early years
The airport was built next to Idroscalo of Milan in the 1930s when Taliedo Airport, located 1 km from the southern border of Milan and one of the world's first aerodromes and airports, became too small for commercial traffic. Linate was completely rebuilt in the 1950s and again in the 1980s.

Its name comes from the small village where it is located in the town of Peschiera Borromeo. Its official name is Airport Enrico Forlanini, after the Italian inventor and aeronautical pioneer born in Milan. Linate airport buildings are located in the Segrate Municipality, and the field is located for a large part in the Peschiera Borromeo Municipality.

Development since 2000
Since 2001, because of Linate's close proximity to the centre of Milan – only 7 km east of the city centre, compared with Malpensa, which is 41 km (25 mi) northwest of the city centre – its capacity has been reduced by law from 32 slots per hour (technical capacity) down to 22 slots per hour (politically decided capacity) and only domestic or international flights within the EU or to the United Kingdom have been allowed. That year, 2001, also saw a major accident at Linate with many illegal and non-ICAO-regulation practices and layouts part of its then operation.

From 27 July to 27 October 2019, Linate was closed for runway resurfacing and terminal upgrades. The latter project is expected to continue after the airport's reopening, concluding some time in 2021. During this closure, most flights were rerouted to Malpensa, displacing approximately 2.5 million passengers.

In July 2023, Linate Airport was named Europe's Best Airport in the 5-10 Million Passenger category by the Airport Council International.

AIRAC A10/23 (valid from 30 November 2023) has determined the new QFU of the runway in 17/35 (was earlier 18/36) due to magnetic variation, and declass of the "old" 17/35 as taxiway only.

Facilities
Linate Airport features one three-story passenger terminal building. The ground level contains the check-in and separate baggage reclaim facilities as well as service counters and a secondary departure gate area for bus-boarding. The first floor features the main departure area with several shops, restaurants and service facilities. The second floor is used for office space. The terminal building features five aircraft stands, all of which are equipped with jet-bridges. Several more parking positions are available on the apron which are reached from several bus-boarding gates.

The airport is on level 4+ of the Airport Carbon Accreditation.

Airlines and destinations
The following airlines operate scheduled services to and from Linate Airport:

Metro
The Milan Metro Line 4 connects the airport to the city centre with a travel time of about 15 minutes.

Bus and coach
The airport can be reached by the ATM bus 73 from Piazza Duomo in the city centre, as well as by coach services from other places within the city. Coaches from and to Monza, Brescia and Milan Malpensa Airport are also available.

Car
The airport is located in Viale Enrico Forlanini next to its intersection with Autostrada A51 (exit 6 Aeroporto Linate). A51 is part of the city's highway ring, so the airport can be reached from any direction.

Incidents and accidents

 * On 6 December 1948, an Avio Linee Italiane (ALI) Douglas DC-3 crashed on takeoff in fog. All seven occupants died.
 * Linate Airport was the site of the Linate Airport disaster on 8 October 2001, when Scandinavian Airlines Flight 686, which was bound for Copenhagen Airport, collided with a business jet that, in fog, had inadvertently taxied onto the runway already in use. This collision later resulted in criminal legal proceedings against 11 staff including an air traffic controller, flight safety officials and management officials from the airport. All 114 people on both aircraft were killed, as well as four people on the ground. The Linate Airport disaster remains the deadliest air disaster in Italian history.
 * On 1 June 2003, a Learjet 45 operated by Eurojet Italia crashed shortly after takeoff because of birdstrikes affecting both engines and loss of control attempting an emergency landing back at Linate. Both pilots were killed.
 * On 15 June 2005, a light aircraft safely landed on taxiway 'T' after its pilot had mistaken it for runway 36R. Following that incident, a safety recommendation was issued. It suggested the use of different numbers to help differentiate between runways. This change was enacted at the beginning of July 2007, when 18R/36L became 17/35 and 18L/36R became 18/36.
 * On 3 October 2021, a privately owned Pilatus PC-12 that had just taken off from Linate Airport crashed into an empty building, killing all eight passengers and crew on board. The plane was heading for Olbia on the island of Sardinia, but it came down soon after takeoff on the outskirts of the city near the metro station at San Donato Milanese, near Milan. The victims included businessman Dan Petrescu, one of the wealthiest people in Romania at the time; his wife, his son, and five others, including a one-year-old baby. Several empty parked cars caught fire after the crash near the metro station, emergency workers said. Firefighters worked to extinguish the flames rising from the building, which was reportedly under reforms.

title: Linate Airport


text:
Milan Bergamo Airport

Orio al Serio International Airport, also styled as Milan Bergamo Airport for commercial purposes,   is the third-busiest international airport in Italy. The airport is also officially called Il Caravaggio International Airport after the Baroque painter Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio, who originally hailed from the nearby town of Caravaggio.

The airport is located in Orio al Serio, 3.7 km southeast of Bergamo and 45 km northeast of Milan. The airport is part of the airport network of the Milan metropolitan area, alongside Malpensa Airport and Linate Airport. The airport served almost 13 million passengers in 2018 and is one of Ryanair's three largest operating bases, along with Dublin Airport and London Stansted Airport.

Overview
The airport is managed by SACBO, a company partially owned by SEA – Aeroporti di Milano, the operator of Linate and Malpensa airports. SEA, the company that runs the latter two airports, also holds a 31% stake in SACBO. The airport has one passenger terminal and two jet-bridge gates.

The terminal is split into two zones, A (Gates A1-A15) and B (Gates B1-B5). Gates A13 and B5 are equipped with boarding bridges, the remaining gates are remote gates

In March 2021, DHL Aviation announced plans to relocate their hub from Bergamo to Milan Malpensa Airport where DHL opened new logistics facilities. In early 2022, DHL confirmed the end of all operations at Bergamo.

Passenger
The following airlines operate scheduled and charter services in Bergamo:

Accidents and incidents

 * On 30 October 2005, Trade Air Flight 729 crashed near Bergamo, Italy, shortly after taking off in poor weather. The flight was a night-time cargo flight from Bergamo to Zagreb operated by a Let L-410 Turbolet with the registration 9A-BTA. All three people on board, two pilots and a passenger, were killed.
 * On 5 August 2016, during the night, Boeing 737-476 (SF) registered HA-FAX, operated by ASL Airlines Hungary, overshot while landing on runway 28 in Bergamo and came to a stop on a parking lot and on a secondary highway lane that is around the airport, 300 m from the runway end. No one was injured, but some cars were destroyed and the plane sustained substantial damages. The plane was removed from the street the same day. The air traffic remained unvaried without delays.

Car
The A4 is one of the main road networks that links the airport.

Bus
There are several public transportation links to and from downtown Milan, including express coaches. There are further connections to/from Bergamo city center, Arezzo, Bologna, Brescia, Monza, Turin, Malpensa Airport, and Milan Trade Exhibition Center, Parma, Torino, and Verona.

Railway
While a railway station is currently being built at Bergamo airport, scheduled to open in 2026, the current nearest railway station is Bergamo railway station, 3.5 mi away. There is no official shuttle between the airport and the railway station. A bus service operated by ATB connects to the airport, about 10 minutes from the train station.

title: Milan Bergamo Airport


text:
Talk:Renaissance (band)

In the Beginning
In 1978, a compilation of Prologue and Ashes are Burning was released on a two-disc record/one cassette tape, and titled "In the Beginning." Should this be added to compilations? 98.221.131.77 (talk) 11:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

POV
Any muso's fancy casting an NPOV eye over this article??? quercus robur 23:57 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Isn't this article better titled Renaissance (band)? Wshun

 * Yup - that's what seems to be done with other articles (Can (band) and Faust (band), for example). I'll move it. --Camembert 00:24 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

There's a lot of POV stuff in this article. Needs a fairly heavy edit to remove bias. -- Lee M (Renaissance fan)

Re the original band: their first album was on Island in UK, not Elektra, and the second was only released in Germany. Re the second line-up, the original guitarist was Mick Parsons who died in a car crash the day before Prologue was recorded. Note also that very many musicians passed through in the early days. Incidentally, Annie Haslam has said that she never regarded Renaissance as a rock band. The (almost) original line-up reformed as Illusion, and released two albums. Sbz5809 12:29, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

"However, Renaissance's live performances were normally faithful reproductions of the studio recordings, and this was not taken well by fans.", that's quite an odd statement. Where is the proof that this hasn't been taken well by fans? - since this is typical behaviour for a progressive rock band at the time and is something that can hardly be an obvious reason for why their concerts were apparently not 'taken well by fans.'

 * Agreed, and I took it upon myself to remove that assertion. That statement is the sole reason I checked this discussion, because it stuck out like a sore thumb as I was reading the article, and I figured someone else must have commented on it.  The unsourced statement looks quite unprovable, since it's not clear how 'not taken well by fans' can be established as a fact.  How many fans didn't approve? 10%? 50%? 75.8574%?  It's just someone's opinion, and strays away from a Neutral Point Of View. - 4.246.129.76 04:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

classical tunes
I want to add two items to List of popular songs based on classical music: "Cold Is Being" (Adagio for Strings, by Albinoni) and "Going Home" (part of Symphony from the New World, by Dvořák) — but I don't know which album(s) they're on, and thus their dates. (One of them may be on Annie in Wonderland.) Anybody? —Tamfang 22:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * "Cold Is Being" is on "Turn of the Cards", and Going Home, according to this, is on Annie Haslam's solo album "Annie in Wonderland". --Yms 08:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

 * thanks; done it. —Tamfang 18:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The opening of "Running Hard" on "Turn of the Cards" is Jehan Alain's "Litanies," a fairly well-known pipe organ piece.

Fair use rationale for Image:Renren123.jpg
Image:Renren123.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Betty Thatcher influence
The main article would be improved if there were a word or two on the band's relationship with Betty Thatcher, and how they got her to write the lyrics to some of their songs.198.177.27.22 (talk) 01:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

That aspect is now covered on Betty's own wiki article RGCorris (talk) 17:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Tales of 1001 Nights
I question the release dates -- are they the CD release dates? I have cassette versions of these albums; volume 1 is dated 1975 and volume 2 is dated 1979. --AFbrat1972-MN (talk) 03:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Northern Lights has volume 1 covering the years 1974-76 and volume 2 covering the years 1976-79; original releases of both, on CD and cassette in 1990. Perhaps the date on your cassette refers to the original recording date rather than the compilation release date ? RGCorris (talk) 13:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Renaissance on the Mike Douglas Show
I'm reasonably certain that I first saw Renaissance on the Mike Douglas show perform "Can You Hear Me" in promotion of Novella. That was my introduction to the band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.15.140 (talk) 18:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a tip, wikipedia isn't a forum. But thanks for sharing. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 04:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

"The Paper Lads"???
Kids' TV show, used to be on (many years back) when I'd get home from school. Set in Tyneside. It even has its own Wikipedia page, which states: "The signature tune of the series, "Back Home Once Again", was performed by progressive folk rock band Renaissance, and it appears (re-recorded) as a full-length song on their 1978 album A Song For All Seasons." Doesn't this merit a mention here? To many (not of the prog-rock persuasion) this may be what the band is best known for. Johncurrandavis (talk) 11:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Johncurrandavis (talk) 11:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Michael Dunford Link
The link on Michael Dunford points to a football administrator! There does not seem to be an entry for Dunford the musician. Seftelcm (talk) 09:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Michael Dunford, R.I.P.
Michael Dunford has died, as some recent edits have noted.

I understand why some editors want to remove Dunford from the band's line-up, but I think that this should not be done. So far, there has been no announcement from the band as to whether they will continue to play together. So the recent edits, although well-intentioned, have created a new hypothetical band:

2012 - present
 * Annie Haslam – lead vocals
 * David J. Keyes – bass
 * Rave Tesar – keyboards
 * Frank Pagano - drums, percussion
 * Jason Hart - keyboards

In other words, the current Renaissance article asserts that there exists a band called "Renaissance" whose lineup is Haslam-Keyes-Tesar-Pagano-Hart. But no such band has ever existed. In fact, if someone actually believed what was said on this page, they would conclude that "from 2012 to the present day", there was a band named Renaissance which had no guitar player. That's simply not true.

That is why I have removed the hypothetical "2012 to present" band lineup.

If the band announces that they will continue touring, they will surely announce their new lineup. I will bet a lot of money that the new lineup will include a guitarist. Therefore, even if the band does continue, there is not, and never will be, a Renaissance whose members are Haslam-Keyes-Tesar-Pagano-Hart.

On the other hand, if they announce that they will not continue as a band, then Dunford will be listed as a "member" of the band on this page, just as John Lennon is listed as a "member" of the Beatles (contrast to Pete Best, who is listed as a "former member" of the Beatles. But until we hear any notice, we should note Dunford's passing :-( but we can't invent new futures for this band without evidence. — Lawrence King ( talk ) 20:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree RGCorris (talk) 11:15, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Then let's replace "present", wherever the word appears, with "2012" (or whenever they last played). —Tamfang (talk) 23:34, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

 * I changed the "present" that applied to Dunford to 2012. With the others, we are in a grey area.  Bands routinely go through a brief hiatus when members change:  for example, the Who's drummer Keith Moon died in September 1978; in early 1979 the Who invited Kenney Jones to join as drummer, and they played their first concert with Jones in May 1979.  Wikipedia -- following the universal practice of music journalists -- do not claim there was a three-piece Who between 9/78 and 5/79, but neither do they claim that the band was broken up during that period.  It's not totally logical but it's consistent with standard practice.  But if Wikipedia had existed in December 1978 there would have been no good way to document the band's current status.

 * That's where Renaissance is at now. If Annie Haslam announces in a couple months that Renaissance won't tour or record for the foreseeable future, then we can list the band as having broken up retroactively to the date of Dunford's death.  If a new guitarist is added, then we can state that Dunford was guitarist through 2012, and the new person became guitarist in 2013, but the band as such was active 2009 to 2013 or later. — Lawrence King ( talk ) 06:35, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Update: Annie Haslam, on her Facebook page, just posted the following (emphasis added):  "Seasons Greetings from 'Renaissance'....  In the midst of losing our 'guiding light' Michael Dunford this past month we are all reminded of how special the gift of life and friendship is to us in the human family. As our friends and fans we call upon you to keep the memory of the music alive in your hearts, as we in the band shall continue to bring it to the world. We hope to see you all in the new year.... Love Annie, Rave, Dave, Jason and Frank."  So this is a clear statement that Annie intends the band to continue, and has listed the five remaining members of the last line-up.  Obviously this won't be the actual touring lineup, since they will need a guitarist, but it should suffice to update this page. — Lawrence King ( talk ) 03:06, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Dedicated page for "Michael Dunford (musician)"
I strongly feel there should be a dedicated wiki page for Michael Dunford, as he was the band's principal songwriter. He was exceptionally gifted and composed and arranged long, intricate, sophisticated, instrumental passages for the band. Would someone like to create a dedicated page for him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthspeak (talk • contribs) 23:49, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

 * I tend to agree. The relevant notability guidelines state that individual band members should be "redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases. Members of two notable bands are generally notable enough for their own article."  Dunford was a member of The Nashville Teens, Renaissance, and and Michael Dunford's Renaissance — the last of which redirects to a subsection of the Renaissance article, and rightly so.  (He was also in "The Plebes" and "The Pentad", but these bands were too minor to count.)  He doesn't seem to have released any solo albums.  Biographical information here:   .  But it would be good to have a print source as well; there is no biographical info on him in Macan's Rocking the Classics. — Lawrence King ( talk ) 03:02, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Removal of Ottawa Bluesfest image
The image which has been in the Infobox for some years has been removed from the article at the request of the band because of issues with its quality. Please do not revert this edit. The image which is currently displayed there is temporary, and could be changed quite soon. Progress reports will be posted here, when necessary. Other editors ideas are most welcome. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 20:58, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

 * I am having trouble finding an image of Renaissance that I can legally upload. Any wikipedian who wishes to provide an image for the Infobox at the top of the article can reply at this talk page, or contact me, or load the image themselves. Please be aware that such an image might only be used in that position temporarily depending on quality, suitability, and whether a better image becomes available at a later stage. Even so, a temporary image would be greatly valued because I don't want the 1979 image to remain there any longer than necessary. Even though there have been changes since my original post, live concert images (historical & current) are still sought. In particular, a quality image of the band at the upcoming Fall Tour would be greatly appreciated, so get clicking! Attributes I am looking for:

 * image of Renaissance in concert
 * night-time image preferred
 * all members of the band visible is preferred
 * sharp image, of course, is preferred
 * professional or non-professional photographer is not relevant, quality is
 * Successful image(s) will need to make their image public domain or license the image in the usual way. If you email me, please only send a couple of images. Thankyou. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 09:01, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

"essential" attribution?
Enlighten me, please.

Where is it clearly and unambiguously documented that it is essential to attribute ownership of the infobox image in the infobox? Clearly the file page at contains the attribution information which, to my mind, is in compliance with the words at WP:CREDITS and the words at [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported].

If a requirement for attribution in the infobox exists, it isn't readily available to editors who might do as I did and remove the attribution. Such requirement, should they exist, must be obvious to any editor.

And one last tidbit: The license under which we all release our work on Wikipedia when we click, appears to be the same license that applies to the infobox image.

Am I missing something?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:05, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Yes, you are missing politeness! The sentence re "one last tidbit" was unnecessary, and caused offence. Let me introduce myself. I'm Caesar; I'm highly educated; I'm quite intelligent, and I don't need little gems like that! If you have something to say, say it, and leave it at that.

 * Another thing that you are missing is context. When I joined Wikipedia in November 2013, there was a photo taken from the audience by a well-meaning fan. The lead singer of Renaissance was extremely upset (justifiably) with the way she was portrayed in that image. Because I raised the subject of that photo, and my wish to find a better one, I copped a blast. Then I tried to find a replacement image on the internet. I enquired whether it was permissible to use certain photos at the help page, only to be insulted with "you're trying to rip off copyrighted content". I wasn't; I was only asking. Then the lead singer came up with the present image, and helped me contact the photographer. Along the way, I promised that credit would be given to the photographer. My meaning was that such credit would accompany the image on the article page, and the photographer would know that was what was meant. During this process I spent many hours reading, and re-reading the guidelines in order that I followed the correct procedure, and avoided contravening any guidelines. Apparently I was not completely successful.

 * You can see that I have what Americans call a "situation". I need to fulfill my personal promise to the other parties, and clearly I have a problem with the guidelines.

 * Perhaps the following info, and suggestions might provide the way forward. The current image is the 2012 line-up of the band, and the intention is, at some stage, to replace it with an image of the current line-up, preferably in a live setting. Renaissance begin their Fall Tour in less than two weeks, and I am hoping to obtain something usable from RBarnes or a non-professional photographer. Perhaps I could renegotiate the terms if the next image is from RBarnes.

 * Given your extensive knowledge of the workings of Wikipedia, could you suggest a way for me to make the requirement for attribution readily available to editors, since the matter is unclear to me? This is intended as an interim measure.

 * Finally, I will be working to resolve the issue with the inline citation that you tagged. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 23:06, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I am sorry that what I wrote caused offence, it was not intended. But, it does say what I wanted to say; I wanted to point out that you and I relinquish our rights to whatever it is that we write at Wikipedia under the same license that applies to Mr Barnes's photograph.  I am also confused: on the one hand you seem to be saying that I should carefully govern what I say, but then, on the other hand, you admonish me to say something if I have it to say.  Let us leave all of that behind us.

 * I think I understand your position and the quagmire into which you believe yourself you are slowly, inexorably sinking. Clearly, for you, the solution is as you've stated, another image free and clear of the burdens of personal promises.  What I don't know, but strongly suspect, is that Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation aren't bound, can't be bound, by promises that you make as a private person.  If that is the case, you cannot be obligated to keep a promise that was not yours to make.  If Mr Barnes is not happy, is he not free to ask that Wikimedia remove the image from commons?  I pay relatively little attention to such things, but I think that I recall seeing the occasional image deletion pop up in my watch list with an edit summary saying something to the effect that the image was deleted at the copyright owner's request.

 * I think that the credit provided on the image's file page meets the requirements of the license agreement. I also think that it meets your personal obligation to Mr Barnes given that here, you must to work within the consensus opinion as currently stated at WP:CREDITS.

 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:54, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation have never been bound by my promise, and they aren't now, nor did I expect that they would be. It was my personal undertaking to the photographer to give credit to him, which I sincerely believed I could fulfill. You state: "If Mr Barnes is not happy, is he not free to ask that Wikimedia remove the image from commons?" I won't challenge it's veracity, however you seem very relaxed about that possibility. I find that relaxed attitude disturbing; deeply disturbing. In the hyperthetical case that he withdrew his support, that would imply that he was quite upset which involves a reputational loss to Wikipedia. Conceivably, he could get on social media and share his dissatisfaction with other professional photographers. So, despite Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation having no responsibility for my mistake, both could suffer from the backlash.

 * Can we look at this from another perspective? At present, I have been working on this article for six months, and made 104 edits. I didn't put in that amount of work to end up with an article which is outside the guidelines; quite the opposite. What we have is that one aspect of the article is an aberration with respect to the guidelines. That aberration is a technical breach in the sense that the general public would not notice that it was incorrect. Also, the guidelines state that such attribution is discouraged, not prohibited. If we clearly state that the current attribution to Mr Barnes is an aberration, and that the article must be brought into line with the guidelines in a timely manner, would that be satisfactory to you? In other words, could you give me six weeks to find a solution, please?

 * I leave it in your hands to decide a course of action which resolves the issue with the least damage to Wikipedia, and other stakeholders. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 11:32, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I suppose it is possible that Mr Barnes could do as you say, though I don't know how much damage to Wikipedia's reputation would be done were he to wage a social media war. As long as WMF respects the terms of the license, as long as WMF honors any request by him to remove his image from commons, then what is to war about?  All of this is, of course, speculation and speculation can paralyze us into inaction.

 * Were you to give over the decision making power to me (something you ought not do, this is supposed to be a collaboration) I would do as I have done: delete the credit from the caption for the reasons I have already stated. So how about this:
 * wrap the credit in and  templates to reduce its visual impact
 * add a hidden comment that refers to this conversation
 * The infobox caption parameter would look like this:
 * Six weeks from today is 22 November 2014. Revisit the topic then and in the mean time wonder where the other 27 watchers are and wonder what their opinions might be?
 * Six weeks from today is 22 November 2014. Revisit the topic then and in the mean time wonder where the other 27 watchers are and wonder what their opinions might be?

 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:08, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I have taken the liberty of editing your code into the article, as an act of good faith, and thereby accept your proposal without amendment. Extended negotiation would be a waste of time. As always, all Wikipedians should have their say if they think it is appropriate. The date 22 November 2014 is in my diary, but hopefully there won't be a topic to revisit at that time. Thankyou for your time. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 23:23, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Trappist the monk, please note that this issue has been resolved ahead of time. The photographer (copyright holder) has been extremely understanding, and I have removed the credit from the infobox. I believe your decision to grant me time to put things in order has been vindicated. Please contact me if you notice any problems with my editing, because I have no desire to accumulate a backlog of issues. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 19:56, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

 * Well done.

 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 21:40, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

2015/6 Line-Up
Renaissance are currently (April 2015) touring the UK and Europe with the following six-piece line-up :

Annie Haslam – vocals Rave Tesar – keyboards Frank Pagano – drums Tom Brislin – keyboards Mark Lambert – guitar, backing vocals Leo Traversa – bass

So in what way are David Keyes, Jason Hart and Ryche Chlanda still "current members" of the band while Brislin, Lambert and Traversa are only "current touring musicians" ? RGCorris (talk) 10:38, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

 * RGCorris, thankyou for your intelligent question. The only reason to keep the "official" line-up as it is would be that if Renaissance record a new studio album, and in my opinion they should do that, they probably will revert to the official line-up. Taking them individually, David Keyes should not be removed because he was committed to this tour, but was forced to withdraw due to poor health. This is the second tour in a row that Jason Hart has absented himself, without an explanation that I can find. His primary musical vehicle, I and Thou, should be releasing their second album this year, and maybe he is too involved with that. With Ryche Chlanda, I have no definite knowledge. My only theory is that with Keyes out, the band needed someone to fill the second vocal role, which would involve mostly harmony vocal work, but also a voice good enough to sing solo for a line or two in duets with Haslam. Some of their repertoire wouldn't work without it, and it is likely that Chlanda's voice is not on that level. A lot of the above is speculation.

 * I know that you are very experienced, and I would value your thoughts on what you believe should be done. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 09:50, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Renaissance have just announced that the same line-up will be playing American dates in October 2015, so there is no sign of David Keyes returning. RGCorris (talk) 09:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Saw them last night (19th April 2016) with the line-up -
 * Annie Haslam – vocals
 * Rave Tesar – keyboards
 * Frank Pagano – drums
 * Mark Lambert – guitar, backing vocals
 * Leo Traversa – bass
 * And another keyboard player whose name I did not catch, but it is not Tom Brislin or Jason Hart - can anyone confirm his name ? RGCorris (talk) 15:49, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Haslam's five-octave vocal range
Many sources have been found which state that Annie Haslam possesses a five-octave vocal range, including Snider which is quoted in the body of the article as "crystal clear five-octave voice". Whether Haslam uses all of her vocal range with Renaissance is entirely irrelevant. Repeatedly changing the article without citing sources will eventually be marked as vandalism.  CaesarsPalaceDude  (talk) 19:00, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Critics
I have a big problem with aggressive music critics as a whole. I think if one really wants to add such appallingly harsh content to a Wikipedia article, it should be necessary to prove that it reflects the opinion of a sufficient base of listeners (IMHO just saying "some critics" as in the main article is not enough). The guy at Rolling Stone could basically have said the same about ELP or Jethro Tull, but I guess he wouldn't have dared. If he hates this kind of music, that is alright, I'd just advise him to concentrate on what he likes and knows about.

A clue might be that the guy had a problem with women at large, as appears in this example:

The Slits Cut (1979) Rating: 1 Star "...reveals no singing ability, a rudimentary handling of musical instruments and rather poor reggae-influenced songwriting. Yet this do-it-yourself incompetence is precisely the point, claim the group's admirers. Obviously, then, for hard-core Anglophilic ass kissers only." (Wayne King, 1983 RS Record Guide)

Source

More interesting and constructive critical material can be found e.g. at http://www.tranglos.com/marek/yes/tr_14.html or http://starling.rinet.ru/music/haslam.htm Alexandre Oberlin (talk) 00:17, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

 * It looks to me that there are two main reviews/opinions, each one featured equally in a quoted block. One is negative and one is positive. Removing the negative review that you called harsh was unhelpful, because it left the article non-neutral as far as reviews. It certainly is not necessary to prove that it reflects the opinion of a sufficient base of listeners. huh? Wikipedia does not work like that. Maybeparaphrased (talk) 01:44, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Basically you are saying that any dude can show up and say e.g. that Leonard Bernstein was a mediocre composer and conductor, and you will value such statement as encyclopedia grade for Wikipedia and fight for it to stay online with an equal visibility as the chorus of praise. Are you really sure that Wikipedia is supposed to work that way? BTW did you take a look at the critics I linked to? They are not only positive, but at least have some rationale beyond raw personal disdain. I’m sure we’ll be able to agree on a small set of qualified and representative appreciations rather than censoring each other. Alexandre Oberlin (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Group photo ID's
In the classic line-up photo, Terry Sullivan and John Tout are swapped. It's John Tout at the top, and it's Terry Sullivan whose knee Annie Haslam is resting her arm on. 84.216.108.70 (talk) 13:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Renaissance (band)