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USS Franklin (CV-13)

USS Franklin (CV/CVA/CVS-13, AVT-8), nicknamed "Big Ben," was one of 24 Essex-class aircraft carriers built during World War II for the United States Navy, and the fifth US Navy ship to bear the name. Commissioned in January 1944, she served in several campaigns in the Pacific War, earning four battle stars. In March 1945, while launching strikes against the Japanese mainland, she was badly damaged when a single Japanese dive bomber struck her with two bombs. The attack resulted in the loss of 807 of her crew and Franklin became the most heavily-damaged United States aircraft carrier to survive the war. The complement of Franklin suffered 924 killed in action during the war, the worst for any surviving U.S. warship and second only to that of USS Arizona (BB-39).

After the attack, she returned to the U.S. mainland for repairs, missing the rest of the war; she was decommissioned in 1947. In reserve, she was reclassified as an attack carrier (CVA), then an antisubmarine carrier (CVS), and finally an aircraft transport (AVT), but she was never modernized and never saw active service again. Franklin and USS Bunker Hill (CV-17) (damaged by two kamikazes) were the only Essex-class carriers not to see active service as aircraft carriers after World War II. Franklin was sold for scrap in 1966.

Construction and commissioning
The keel of Franklin was laid down on 7 December 1942 in Shipway 11, the first anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and she was launched by the Newport News Shipbuilding Company, in Virginia, on 14 October 1943, sponsored by Lieutenant Commander Mildred H. McAfee, an American naval officer who was the Director of the WAVES. The warship was named in honor of the founding father Benjamin Franklin and for the previous warships that had been named for him; it was not named for the Battle of Franklin, Tennessee, that was fought during the American Civil War, as is sometimes erroneously reported, although a footnote in The Franklin Comes Home does attribute the naming to the Battle of Franklin. (Franklin, Tennessee was also named after Benjamin Franklin.) Franklin was commissioned on 31 January 1944. Among the plankowners was a ship's band made up of several enlisted men who were professional musicians at the time, including Saxie Dowell and Deane Kincaide, assigned to Franklin by a lottery.

World War II
Carrier Air Group 13 had been established in November 1943 and embarked aboard Franklin for war service. Franklin steamed south to Trinidad for a shakedown and soon thereafter, she departed in Task Group 27.7 (TG 27.7) for San Diego, to engage in intensive training exercises preliminary to combat duty. In June, she steamed via Pearl Harbor for Eniwetok Island where she joined TG 58.2. Franklin served as the flagship of Rear Admiral Ralph E. Davison for most of her time in the western Pacific.

The Mariana and Palau Islands campaign
On the last day of June 1944, she sortied for carrier strikes on the Bonin Islands in support of the subsequent Mariana Islands assault. Her planes destroyed aircraft on the ground and in the air, gun installations, airfield and enemy shipping. On 4 July, strikes were launched against Iwo Jima, Chichi Jima, and Haha Jima, hitting ground targets, sinking a large cargo vessel in the harbor and setting three smaller ships on fire.

On 6 July, Franklin began strikes on Guam and Rota Island to soften them up for the invasion forces that were going to land on Guam, and those strikes continued until 21 July, when she lent direct support to enable safe landing of the first assault waves. Two days of replenishment at Saipan permitted her to steam in Task Force 58 for photographic reconnaissance and air strikes against the islands of the Palau Islands group. On 25 and 26 July, her planes struck enemy planes, ships, and ground installations. Franklin departed on 28 July and headed for Saipan, and the following day she was shifted to TG 58.1. Although high seas prevented taking on a needed load of bombs and rockets, Franklin steamed for another raid against the Bonins. On 4 August, her fighters attacked Chichi Jima and her dive bombers and torpedo planes attacked a ship convoy north of Ototo Jima. Targets included radio stations, a seaplane base, airstrips, and ships.

A period of upkeep and recreation from 9–28 August ensued at Eniwetok before she departed with USS Enterprise (CV-6), USS Belleau Wood (CVL-24) and USS San Jacinto (CVL-30) for neutralization and diversionary attacks against the Bonins. From 31 August to 2 September, strikes from Franklin inflicted ground damage, sank two cargo ships, destroyed enemy planes in flight, and undertook photographic surveys. On 4 September 1944, Franklin took on supplies at Saipan, and then she steamed in TG 38.1 for an attack against Yap Island (3–6 September) which included direct air coverage of the Peleliu invasion on the 15th. The Task Group took on supplies at Manus Island from 21 to 25 September. Franklin, now the flagship of TG 38.4, returned to the Palau area where she launched daily patrols and night fighters.

Leyte
Early on 14 September 1944, a fighter sweep was made against Aparri, Luzon, following which she steamed to the east of Luzon to neutralize installations prior to invasion landings on Leyte. On 15 September, Franklin was attacked by three enemy planes, one of which scored with a bomb that hit the after outboard corner of the deck edge elevator, killing three men and wounding 22.

As part of Task Force 38.4, Franklin next sailed northwest to participate in the Formosa Air Battle from 12 to 16 October, where the U.S. Navy needed to destroy multiple Japanese air bases that controlled airspace from the Philippines to Okinawa to the southern Home Islands. No invasion of Luzon could take place until this Japanese air power was neutralized. On 13 October a Japanese Betty bomber aircraft was shot down, and attempted to kamikaze into Franklin. It did some damage to the flight deck, but slid off the starboard side of the ship. Following this action, Franklin moved into support for the invasion of the Philippines. The carrier's aircraft hit Manila Bay on 19 October when her planes sank and damaged ships and boats, destroyed a floating drydock, and claimed 11 Japanese aircraft.

During the initial landings on Leyte (20 October) Franklin's aircraft attacked surrounding airstrips and launched search patrols in anticipation of the approach of a reported enemy attack force. On the morning of 24 October, in the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, her planes formed part of the waves that attacked the Japanese First Raiding Force (under Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita), helping to sink JAPANESE BATTLESHIP Musashi south of Luzon, damage JAPANESE BATTLESHIP Fusō and JAPANESE BATTLESHIP Yamashiro, and sink JAPANESE DESTROYER Wakaba. As further enemy threats seemed to materialize in another quarter, Franklin – with TGs 38.4, 38.3, and 38.2 – sped to intercept the advancing Japanese carrier force and attack at dawn. The distant carrier force was actually a sacrificial feint, as by that time the Japanese were almost out of serviceable airplanes and, even more importantly, very short on trained pilots, but the admiral in charge, William Halsey, took the bait and steamed after them without effectively communicating his intentions, leading to the infamous "the world wonders" communications debacle. Franklin's strike groups combined with those from the other carriers on 25 October in the Battle off Cape Engaño to damage JAPANESE AIRCRAFT CARRIER Chiyoda (she would be sunk by American cruiser gunfire subsequently) and sink JAPANESE AIRCRAFT CARRIER Zuihō.

Retiring in her task group to refuel, she returned to the Leyte action on 27 October, her planes concentrating on a heavy cruiser and two destroyers south of Mindoro. She was under way about 100 mi off Samar on 30 October, when enemy bombers appeared bent on a suicide mission. Navy fighters shot down most of the Japanese planes, but six broke through the combat air patrol into Franklin's task group of four carriers defensively surrounded by a circle of about twenty escorting cruisers and destroyers. Shipboard anti-aircraft guns shot down three of the four kamikazes independently diving toward each of the four carriers; but the one targeting Franklin hit the flight deck and crashed through to the gallery deck, killing 56 men and wounding 60. As the remaining two kamikazes attacked, one was shot down by anti-aircraft guns and the second missed Franklin with two bombs before flying into the stern of Belleau Wood.

Franklin was able to extinguish fires and patch the flight deck so planes could be recovered 76 minutes after the kamikaze hit. Both carriers retired to Ulithi Atoll for temporary repairs, and then Franklin proceeded to the Puget Sound Navy Yard, arriving on 28 November 1944 for repairs of her battle damage. In the meantime, on 7 November, Captain Leslie E. Gehres took over as the carrier's commanding officer. Captain Gehres was a strict disciplinarian whose autocracy was disliked by many of Franklin's crew.

Franklin departed from Bremerton on 2 February 1945 for training exercises and pilot qualification operations. After a stop for provisions, she departed from Pearl Harbor on 3 March 1945 to join TG 58.2 for strikes on the Japanese homeland in support of the Okinawa landings. On board were RADM Davison in command of the task group, RADM Gerald F. Bogan en route to take command of Carrier Division 4 and CAPT Arnold J. Isbell en route to take command of USS Yorktown (CV-10). On 15 March, she rendezvoused with TF 58 units, and three days later launched sweeps and strikes against Kagoshima and Izumi on southern Kyūshū.

19 March 1945

Before dawn on 19 March 1945, Franklin, which had maneuvered to within 50 mi of the Japanese mainland, closer than any other U.S. carrier during the war, launched a fighter sweep against Honshū and later a strike against shipping in Kure Harbor. The Franklin crew had been called to battle stations twelve times within six hours that night and Gehres downgraded the alert status to Condition III, allowing his men freedom to eat or sleep, although gunnery crews remained at their stations. A single Yokosuka D4Y "Judy" dive bomber approached Franklin without being detected by radar. As Franklin was about halfway through launching a second wave of strike aircraft, the Japanese dive bomber pierced the cloud cover and dropped two semi-armor-piercing bombs before the ship's anti-aircraft gunners could fire. The damage analysis came to the conclusion that the bombs were 550 lb. According to the war film The Saga of the Franklin, the leader of Air Group 5 shot the bomber down.

One bomb struck the flight deck centerline, penetrating to the hangar deck, causing destruction and igniting fires through the second and third decks, and knocking out the combat information center and air plot. The second hit aft, tearing through two decks. At the time she was struck, Franklin had 31 armed and fueled aircraft warming up on her flight deck, and these planes caught fire almost immediately. The 13 to 16 tons of high explosives aboard these planes soon began detonating progressively, and although "Tiny Tim" air-to-surface rockets were loaded aboard Vought F4U Corsairs, their three-point, nose up attitude allowed most of the rockets to fly overboard when their engines ignited. The hangar deck contained planes, of which 16 were fueled and 5 were armed. The forward gasoline system had been secured, but the aft system was operating. The explosion on the hangar deck ignited the fuel tanks on the aircraft, and a gasoline vapor explosion devastated the deck. The twelve "Tiny Tim" rockets aboard these planes ricocheted around the hangar deck until their 138 lb warheads detonated. Of the personnel who were in the hangar only two survived. One "Tiny Tim" warhead lodged on the third deck below the forward elevator, and was not removed until Franklin reached Ulithi.

Dense smoke soon filled the engineering spaces, which were ordered evacuated with the throttles set. Franklin was soon dead in the water, without radio communications, and broiling in the heat from enveloping fires. On the bridge, Captain Gehres ordered Franklin's magazines flooded but this could not be carried out as the ship's water mains were destroyed by the explosions or fire. Cruisers USS Pittsburgh (CA-72) and USS Santa Fe (CL-60) with destroyers USS Miller (DD-535), USS Hickox (DD-673), USS Hunt (DD-674) and USS Marshall (DD-676) left the task group formation to assist Franklin. Accompanied by RADM Bogan, RADM Davison transferred his flag to the destroyer Miller by breeches buoy and suggested abandoning ship, but Gehres refused to scuttle the Franklin as there were still many men alive below deck.

The other destroyers fell in astern of the carrier to rescue members of the crew who had been blown overboard, or jumped off to avoid the fire. Some of the destroyers put their bows against the side of the burning carrier to take off men trapped by the fire. Some of the crew from the assisting ships were killed or wounded, but the hundreds of officers and enlisted men who voluntarily remained saved many lives, and then saved the  ship. Among the dead was one of the ship's surgeons, LCDR George W. Fox, M.D., who was killed while tending to wounded sailors; he was awarded the Navy Cross posthumously. When totaling casualty figures for both Franklin cruises numbers increase to 926 killed in action, the worst for any surviving U.S. warship and second only to that of battleship USS Arizona (BB-39). Certainly, the casualty figures would have far exceeded this number, but for the work of many survivors. Among these were the Medal of Honor recipients Lieutenant Commander Joseph T. O'Callahan, the warship's Catholic chaplain, who administered the last rites, organized and directed firefighting and rescue parties, and led men below to wet down magazines that threatened to explode; and also Lieutenant Junior Grade Donald A. Gary, who discovered 300 men trapped in a blackened mess compartment and, finding an exit, returned repeatedly to lead groups to safety. Gary later organized and led fire-fighting parties to battle fires on the hangar deck and entered the No. 3 fireroom to raise steam in one boiler. Santa Fe rescued crewmen from the sea and approached Franklin to take off the numerous wounded and nonessential personnel. Among those evacuated were the surviving members of the embarked Air Group 5, who were deemed nonexpendable. 32 Corsair fighters, 15 Grumman TBM Avenger torpedo bombers, 7 Curtiss SB2C Helldiver dive bombers, and 5 Grumman F6F Hellcat fighters, 59 planes total, were destroyed by the Japanese attack.

The casualty count for Franklin varies from source to source as some do not include air group personnel or Marines, passengers who were in transit, a journalist, or those who died from their wounds much later. In History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, Samuel Eliot Morison gives figures of 724 killed and 265 wounded for 19 March 1945. Joseph A. Springer, citing "official statistics," gives higher numbers of 807 killed and at least 487 wounded. Franklin suffered the most severe damage and highest casualties experienced by any U.S. fleet carrier that survived World War II. In addition to the Medals of Honor for Donald Gary and Joseph O'Callahan and the posthumous Navy Cross for George Fox, 21 additional Navy Crosses and 26 Silver Stars were awarded as a result of actions that day. Among these were a gold star in lieu of a third Navy Cross for CDR (later RADM) Joseph F. "Joe" Taylor, the ship's executive officer and a former torpedo bomber pilot, and Navy Crosses for CAPT (later RADM) Harold C. Fitz, the Santa Fe commander, CDR Stephen Jurika, the Franklin navigator and also a former torpedo bomber pilot, LCDR (later RADM) Dwight L. Johnson, the Miller commander, LCDR Macgregor "Mac" Kilpatrick, an experienced fighter pilot and the commanding officer of Fighting Squadron Five, and LT Fred R. "Red" Harris, a Franklin flight deck officer and a member of the Texas Legislature both before and after the war. Among those who received Silver Stars were LT Grimes W. Gatlin, the ship's other chaplain and a Methodist minister, and Donald H. Russell, a civilian Corsair technical support engineer.

Franklin, like many other wartime ships, had been modified with additional armament, requiring larger crews and substantial ammunition stocks. Aircraft were both more numerous and heavier than originally planned for, and thus the flight deck had been strengthened. The aircraft carrier, therefore, displaced more than originally planned, her freeboard was reduced, and her stability characteristics had been altered. Santa Fe came alongside Franklin to spray water from fire hoses over the fire as she received stretcher cases and ambulatory wounded from the carrier. The enormous quantities of water poured aboard her to fight the fires further reduced freeboard, which was exacerbated by a 15-degree list to starboard, and her stability was seriously impaired such that her survival was in jeopardy. Pumping ballast to correct the starboard list caused a 15-degree list to port. Pittsburgh towed Franklin at 5 kn for the remaining daylight hours. After six hours, with the fire finally under control such that the ship could be saved, men returned to the engineering spaces and got underway at 25 kn with only two of the four screws driving. Franklin's planes which had been in the air when the carrier was hit landed aboard the other carriers in the task group, although it was necessary to push some planes overboard to make room for them. Admiral Davison deployed five destroyers to search for any of Franklin's men who had been blown overboard or jumped into the sea.

Return to the U.S.

Franklin proceeded to Ulithi Atoll at 14 kn under her own power for emergency repairs. Next she headed to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, for temporary repairs. As per Pearl Harbor procedures, a civilian harbor pilot came aboard to help navigate the carrier to the dock; Captain Gehres, however, refused, and said he would "take her in" himself. He maneuvered Franklin into the dock area too fast, crashing her into the dock; embarrassed, Gehres blamed the mooring details for the incident. After temporary repairs were completed, the ship continued its journey through the Panama Canal to the Brooklyn Navy Yard, New York, where she arrived on 28 April 1945. She had to steam to the East Coast of the United States for repairs in New York because all of the repair shipyards on the West Coast were heavily overloaded with American warships that had been damaged by Japanese kamikazes.

Upon Franklin's arrival in New York, a long-brewing controversy over the ship's crew's conduct during her struggles finally came to a head. Captain Gehres had accused many of those who had left the ship on 19 March 1945 of desertion, despite the fact that those who had jumped into the water to escape had done so to prevent a likely death by fire, or had been led to believe that "abandon ship" had been ordered. While en route from Ulithi Atoll to Hawaii, Gehres had proclaimed 704 members of the crew to be members of the "Big Ben 704 Club" for having stayed with the heavily damaged warship, but investigators in New York discovered that only about 400 were actually onboard Franklin continuously. The others had been brought back on board either before or during the stop at Ulithi. All of the charges against the men of her crew were quietly dropped.

Captain Gehres was relieved as captain of the Franklin in July 1945 and reassigned to command Naval Air Station San Diego, eventually reaching the rank of rear admiral before retirement.

Despite severe damage, Franklin was eventually restored to good condition. The story of this aircraft carrier's near-destruction and salvage was chronicled in the wartime documentary, The Saga of the Franklin (1945), and the 2011 documentary, USS Franklin: Honor Restored.

Post-war

Franklin received four battle stars for her World War II service. After the war, Franklin was opened to the public for Navy Day celebrations. On 17 February 1947, she was decommissioned at Bayonne, New Jersey.

While Franklin lay mothballed at Bayonne, she was redesignated as an attack aircraft carrier CVA-13 on 1 October 1952, an antisubmarine warfare support carrier CVS-13 on 8 August 1953 and, ultimately, as an aircraft transport AVT-8 on 15 May 1959. However, she never went to sea again, and was stricken from the Naval Vessel Register on 1 October 1964. She and Bunker Hill, which also had sustained severe damage from aerial attack, were the only carriers in their class that never saw any active-duty postwar service, but their wartime damage had been successfully repaired. In fact, it was their like-new condition which kept them out of commission, as the Navy for many years envisioned an "ultimate reconfiguration" for them, which never took place.

The Navy initially sold Franklin to the Peck Iron and Metal Company of Portsmouth, Virginia, but reclaimed her because of an urgent Bureau of Ships requirement for her four turbo generators. She was again sold for scrap to the Portsmouth Salvage Company of Chesapeake, Virginia, on 27 July 1966. She departed naval custody under tow (by the Red Star Towing Company) on the evening of 1 August 1966.

Awards

 * American Campaign Medal
 * Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (4 battle stars)
 * World War II Victory Medal
 * Philippine Presidential Unit Citation
 * Philippine Liberation Medal

title: USS Franklin (CV-13)


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User:Grendelkhan

I'm a long-time administrator on the English Wikipedia. Thanks to everyone who supported me.

I've been around here since 2003, when I was screencapping SNES games and importing Library of Congress Classification lists. I've gradually moved from a janitorial focus to somewhat more-substantive contributions, and a lot more media-uploading. See my media category on Commons for more of that.

Subpages

 * /Images
 * /Scratch
 * /Media Notes

Articles
In the earlier days, I imported LCC data, and started (since completely rewritten) articles for everything from to  to  to the. I then took a mostly-hiatus from 2009 to 2012, briefly returned in 2013, and have been somewhat active since 2016.

Nontrivial articles created since then: Richard Lewisohn · Carl Ice · Michael J. Ward · Steve Tobias · David L. Starling · Bill Wimmer · Richard F. Timmons · Richard K. Davidson · Warnock (typeface) · Linn Enslow · Bird (company) · Scooter-sharing system · Travis VanderZanden · Craft Ventures · Reid Lyon.

Articles significantly worked on since then: Willimantic, Connecticut · California housing shortage.

Interests
I'm educated in computer science, with lesser knowledge in math, physics and library science. I'm a working engineer, with a focus on distributed storage systems and system administration.

My interests are eclectic, but (as of 2018) include urbanism, AI alignment, the California housing shortage, rail transport, renewable energy and public health.

My skills include photography, graphs and charts, and programming. (Should expand on that, some.)

The images I've contributed can be seen on my images page. (Pending some serious cleanup, there.)

Large and/or ongoing work

 * 1) Create graphs for California housing crisis; get a peer review.
 * 2) Contribute to Willimantic, Connecticut and shepherd it to at least GA status.
 * 3) Expand scooter-sharing system.
 * 4) Fill out biographies linked to from Railroader of the Year.

Quick notes to self

 * 1) Use the FAA's airport diagrams to illustrate airport articles. Convert PDFs to SVGs, as in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport (see CVG airport diagram.svg.)
 * 2) Learn a lot more about Template:Graph:Chart; there are a lot of places it would do very well to use it inline.

Last update: grendel|khan 23:14, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Grendelkhan


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Talk:History of British North American Colonies

Can't see we need both of these articles DJ Clayworth 17:03, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)


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Platonic love

Platonic love is a type of love in which sexual desire or romantic features are nonexistent or have been suppressed, sublimated, or purgated, but it means more than simple friendship.

The term is derived from the name of Greek philosopher Plato, though the philosopher never used the term himself. Platonic love, as devised by Plato, concerns rising through levels of closeness to wisdom and true beauty, from carnal attraction to individual bodies to attraction to souls, and eventually, union with the truth.

Platonic love is contrasted with romantic love.

Classical philosophical interpretation
Platonic love is examined in Plato's dialogue, the Symposium, which has as its topic the subject of love, or more generally the subject of Eros. It explains the possibilities of how the feeling of love began and how it has evolved, both sexually and non-sexually, and defines genuine platonic love as inspiring a person's mind and soul and directing their attention towards spiritual matters. Of particular importance is the speech of Socrates, who attributes to the prophet Diotima an idea of platonic love as a means of ascent to contemplation of the divine, an ascent known as the "Ladder of Love". For Diotima and Plato generally, the most correct use of love of human beings is to direct one's mind to love of divinity. Socrates defines love based on separate classifications of pregnancy (to bear offspring); pregnancy of the body, pregnancy of the soul, and direct connection to existence. Pregnancy of the body results in human children. Pregnancy of the soul, the next step in the process, produces "virtue"—which is the soul (truth) translating itself into material form. ""... virtue for the Greeks means self-sameness ... in Plato's terms, Being or idea."(106)"

Eros
Pausanias, in Plato's Symposium (181b–182a), defines two types of the love known as "Eros": vulgar Eros, or earthly love, and divine Eros, or divine love. Pausanias defines vulgar Eros as material attraction towards a person's beauty for the purposes of physical pleasure and reproduction, and divine Eros as starting from physical attraction but transcending gradually to love for supreme beauty, placed on a similar level to the divine. This concept of divine Eros was later transformed into the term "platonic love".

Vulgar Eros and divine Eros were both considered to be connected, and part of the same continuous process of pursuing perfection of one's being, with the purpose of mending one's human nature and eventually reaching a point of unity where there is no longer an aspiration or need to change.

""Eros is ... a moment of transcendence ... in so far as the other can never be possessed without being annihilated in its status as the other, at which point both desire and transcendence would cease ... (84)"

Eros as a god
In the Symposium, Eros is discussed as a Greek god—more specifically, the king of the gods, with each guest of the party giving a eulogy in praise of Eros.

Virtue
Virtue, according to Greek philosophy, is the concept of how closely reality and material form equates good, positive, or benevolent. This can be seen as a form of linguistic relativity.

Some modern authors' perception of the terms "virtue" and "good" as they are translated into English from the Symposium are a good indicator of this misunderstanding. In the following quote, the author simplifies the idea of virtue as simply what is "good".""... what is good is beautiful, and what is beautiful is good ...""

Ladder of Love
The Ladder of Love is a metaphor that relates each step toward Being as consecutive rungs of a ladder. Each step closer to the truth further distances love from beauty of the body toward love that is more focused on wisdom and the essence of beauty.

The ladder starts with carnal attraction of body for body, progressing to a love for body and soul. Eventually, in time, with consequent steps up the ladder, the idea of beauty is eventually no longer connected with a body, but entirely united with Being itself. ""[...] decent human beings must be gratified, as well as those that are not as yet decent, so that they might become more decent; and the love of the decent must be preserved." (187d, 17) - Eryximachus' "completion" of Pausanias' speech on Eros"

Tragedy and comedy
Plato's Symposium defines two extremes in the process of platonic love; the entirely carnal and the entirely ethereal. These two extremes of love are seen by the Greeks in terms of tragedy and comedy. According to Diotima in her discussion with Socrates, for anyone to achieve the final rung in the Ladder of Love, they would essentially transcend the body and rise to immortality—gaining direct access to Being. Such a form of love is impossible for a mortal to achieve.

What Plato describes as "pregnancy of the body" is entirely carnal and seeks pleasure and beauty in bodily form only. This is the type of love, that, according to Socrates, is practiced by animals. ""Now, if both these portraits of love, the tragic and the comic, are exaggerations, then we could say that the genuine portrayal of Platonic love is the one that lies between them. The love described as the one practiced by those who are pregnant according to the soul, who partake of both the realm of beings and the realm of Being, who grasp Being indirectly, through the mediation of beings, would be a love that Socrates could practice.""

Tragedy
Diotima considers the carnal limitation of human beings to the pregnancy of the body to be a form of tragedy, as it separates someone from the pursuit of truth. One would be forever limited to beauty of the body, never being able to access the true essence of beauty.

Comedy
Diotima considers the idea of a mortal having direct access to Being to be a comic situation simply because of the impossibility of it. The offspring of true virtue would essentially lead to a mortal achieving immortality.

Historical views of platonic love
In the Middle Ages, new interest in the works of Plato, his philosophy and his view of love became more popular, spurred on by Georgios Gemistos Plethon during the Councils of Ferrara and Firenze in 1438–1439. Later in 1469, Marsilio Ficino put forward a theory of neo-platonic love, in which he defined love as a personal ability of an individual, which guides their soul towards cosmic processes, lofty spiritual goals and heavenly ideas. The first use of the modern sense of platonic love is considered to be by Ficino in one of his letters.

Though Plato's discussions of love originally centered on relationships which were sexual between members of the same sex, scholar Todd Reeser studies how the meaning of platonic love in Plato's original sense underwent a transformation during the Renaissance, leading to the contemporary sense of nonsexual heterosexual love.

The English term "platonic" dates back to William Davenant's The Platonick Lovers, performed in 1635, a critique of the philosophy of platonic love which was popular at Charles I's court. The play was derived from the concept in Plato's Symposium of a person's love for the idea of good, which he considered to lie at the root of all virtue and truth. For a brief period, platonic love was a fashionable subject at the English royal court, especially in the circle around Queen Henrietta Maria, the wife of King Charles I. Platonic love was the theme of some of the courtly masques performed in the Caroline era, though the fashion for this soon waned under pressures of social and political change.

Seven types of love
Throughout these eras, platonic love was slowly categorized into seven different classical definitions. These were:
 * Eros: sexual or passionate love, or a modern perspective of romantic love.
 * Philia: the love of friendship or goodwill, often met with mutual benefits that can also be formed by companionship, dependability, and trust.
 * Storge: the love found between parents and children, often a unilateral love.
 * Agape: the universal love, consisting of love for strangers, nature, or God.
 * Ludus: playful and uncommitted love, intended for fun with no resulting consequences
 * Pragma: love founded on duty and reason, and one's longer-term interests.
 * Philautia: self-love, both healthy or unhealthy; unhealthy if one places oneself above the gods (to the point of hubris), and healthy if it is used to build self-esteem and confidence.

Despite the variety and number of definitions, the different distinctions between types of love were not considered concrete and mutually exclusive, and were often considered to blend into one another at certain points.

Definition
"Platonic love in its modern popular sense is an affectionate relationship into which the sexual element does not enter, especially in cases where one might easily assume otherwise." "Platonic lovers function to underscore a supportive role where the friend sees [their] duty as the provision of advice, encouragement, and comfort to the other person ... and do not entail exclusivity."

Complications
One of the complications of platonic love lies within the persistence of the use of the title itself "platonic love" versus the use of "friend". It is the use of the word love that directs us towards a deeper relationship than the scope of a normal friendship.

Queerplatonic love
Some in the aromantic and asexual communities, within the broader LGBT community, have coined the term "queerplatonic" to refer to formal intimate relationships between significant others that do not involve romance. Queerplatonic feelings are often described, like romance, as involving a deeper and more profound emotional connection than friendship.

Julie Sondra Decker writes that queerplatonic love often "looks indistinguishable from romance when outside the equation", but should not be "assigned a romantic status if participants say it is not romantic". She also notes that it can also be misread by observers as close friendship in circumstances where overtly romantic gestures are socially expected. For Decker, the essence of queerplatonic attraction is its ambiguous position in relation to normative categories: she writes that QPR "is a platonic relationship, but it is 'queered' in some way—not friends, not romantic partners, but something else".

title: Platonic love


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Regional Internet registry

A regional Internet registry (RIR) is an organization that manages the allocation and registration of Internet number resources within a region of the world. Internet number resources include IP addresses and autonomous system (AS) numbers.

The regional Internet registry system evolved, eventually dividing the responsibility for management to a registry for each of five regions of the world. The regional Internet registries are informally liaised through the unincorporated Number Resource Organization (NRO), which is a coordinating body to act on matters of global importance.

As of 2005, there are currently five regional registries:
 * The African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) is based in Ebene, Mauritius and serves all of Africa.
 * The American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) is based in Chantilly, Virginia and serves Antarctica, Canada, the United States, and some Caribbean countries and territories.
 * The Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) is based in Brisbane, Australia and serves East, South and Southeast Asia and Oceania.
 * The Latin America and Caribbean Network Information Centre (LACNIC) is based in Montevideo, Uruguay and serves Latin America as well as some Caribbean countries.
 * Réseaux IP Européens Network Coordination Centre (RIPE NCC) is based in Amsterdam, Netherlands and serves Central and West Asia, Europe, and Russia.

Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
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The NRO's main objectives are to:

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Local Internet registry
A local Internet registry (LIR) is an organization that has been allocated a block of IP addresses by a RIR, and that assigns most parts of this block to its own customers. Most LIRs are Internet service providers, enterprises, or academic institutions. Membership in a regional Internet registry is required to become a LIR.

title: Regional Internet registry


text:
Daphne Marlatt

Daphne Marlatt, born Buckle, CM (born July 11, 1942 in Melbourne, Australia), is a Canadian poet and novelist who lives in Vancouver, British Columbia.

At a young age, her family moved to Malaysia and at age nine, they moved to British Columbia, where she later attended the University of British Columbia. There she developed her poetry style and her strong feminist views. In 1968, she received an MA in comparative literature from Indiana University.

Her poetry, while considered extremely dense and difficult, is also much acclaimed. In 2006, she was made a Member of the Order of Canada.

Early life
Daphne Marlatt is an author, teacher, writer, editor, mother and feminist. Her works include two novels, several poetry pieces, and many edited literary journals and magazines. Daphne Marlatt was born to English parents, Arthur and Edrys Lupprian Buckle, in Melbourne, Australia on July 11, 1942.

At the age of three, Marlatt's family moved to Penang, Malaysia and then at the age of nine her family immigrated to Vancouver. Marlatt received her B.A. from the University of British Columbia in 1964 and while there, in 1963, became an editor for TISH, a Canadian literary journal.

After traveling around the continent with her husband, Gordon Alan Marlatt, a clinical psychologist, she then settled down for a while in Bloomington, Indiana where she received her M.A. from the Indiana University in Comparative literature in 1968. It is here where she started to write Frames of a Story (1968). Robert Lecker, in the 1978 article "Perceiving It as It Stands" from Canadian Literature, says "Marlatt has every right to join Kay and Gerda in flight, for their predicament, and the development of their story, serve as a metaphor for the problems of growth encountered by a poet struggling to break away from the frames imposed by established word patterns and the falsities implied by a world view which categorizes experience, storytelling it in standardized form, as if the motion of living was always the same, always sane."

In 1969, Marlatt published leaf leaf/s, which is a collection of shorter poems. In 1971, Marlatt published Rings, a collection of poems about pregnancy, birth, and early parenting. She started teaching writing and literature at Capilano College and also edited for The Capilano Review. In 1972 she published Vancouver Poems. Marlatt published a well known piece of hers, Steveston, in 1974. This piece is about a small fishing village that Marlatt explains the relation to its history as a camp for Japanese Canadians during World War II.

Later life
In 1975, Marlatt published Our Lives, a poetry piece about "organic implosions of relationships", according to BookRags. Marlatt and her partner, the poet and artist Roy Kiyooka, separated in the late 1970s and it is around this time that she and her son moved back to Vancouver. In 1977, The Story, She Said was published and so was her book, Zocalo. Zocalo is a collection of long poems about the travels had through the Yucatán. Marlatt's, What Matters: Writing 1968-1970, includes some of her early writings, including "Rings" and "Vancouver Poems" and was published in 1980.

Also, in 1980 she had, Net Work: Selected Writing, published, which contains new "confidence and authority", according to Fred Wah, a professor at the University of Calgary. He goes on to say that "the flow of town and history, of the Japanese people and the cannery, especially of the river and language, are more securely rooted in place and concentrated in the writing consciousness than in any other of her books." And according to www.athabascau.ca, Net Work: Selected Writing is "a selection of poetry spanning from Frames of a Story (1968) to What Matters (1980) is an excellent cross-section of her early poetry." It is through these pieces and earlier pieces that Marlatt's feminist theory begins to emerge.

In 1977, Marlatt co-founded periodies: a magazine of prose (1977–81) and in 1981 published here & there. It was around this time that Marlatt became more involved in feminist concerns, and attended and organized several feminist conferences. She also, in 1985, co-founded Tessera, which is a feminist journal. Around this time, Marlatt is quoted to saying, "a time of transition for me as i tried to integrate my feminist reading with a largely male-mentored postmodernist poetic, at the same time coming out as a lesbian in my life as well as in my writing."

In 1983, Marlatt's How Hug a Stone was published, which follows that journey traveled by herself and her son, in 1981, to England. In 1984, Touch to My Tongue was published. Both pieces "express her intense apprehension of the continually changing world.", according to Douglas Barbour, an author of The Canadian Encyclopedia.

Marlatt created two books, Mauve, published in 1985 and character/jeu de letters, published in 1986, with Quebec feminist and writer Nicole Brossard. Double negative, a piece that was put together between Marlatt and Betsy Warland, her significant other, was published in 1988.

In 1988, the introduction of one of Marlatt's most distinguished pieces, Ana Historic, was published. This novel, according to www.athabascau.ca, " describes the experiences of women both historic and contemporary." Marlatt describes her novel, Ana Historic, in a 2003 interview with Sue Kossew, a professor at the University of New South Wales, as follows: "I like rubbing the edges of document and memory/fiction against one another. I like the friction that is produced between the stark reporting of document, the pseudo-factual language of journalism, and the more emotional, even poetic, language of memory. That's why I used such a hodgepodge of sources in Ana Historic: a little nineteenth-century and very local journalism that sounds like a gossip column, a 1906 school textbook, various historical accounts, some contemporary feminist theory, and a school teacher's diary from 1873 that was completely fictitious."

According to Caroline Rosenthal, author of Narrative Deconstructions of Gender in Works by Audrey Thomas, Daphne Marlatt, and Louise Erdrich, "Marlatt, in Ana Historic, challenges the regulatory fiction of heterosexuality. She offers her protagonist a way out into a new order that breaks with the law of the father, creating a "monstrous" text that explores the possibilities of a lesbian identity."

In 1991, Marlatt's piece, Salvage, was published, which explores parts of Marlatt's life and puts it together with a feminist's point of view. In 1993 Ghost Works was published, which contains prose poems, letters, diary entries, short-line poems, and travel books to make a narrative.

In 1994, Two Women in a Birth, was published. This piece was written by both Marlatt and her significant other, Betsy Warland. This piece is "This collection of [poetry] represents ten years of collaborative work by two of Canada's leading feminist writers" according to books.google.com.

In 1996, Marlatt's second novel, Taken was published. This novel that is a tribute to women whose lives have been taken by war. In 2001, This Tremor Love Is was published. This Tremor Love is a collection of love poems over a period of twenty-five years, from Marlatt's first writing to her most recent. Marlatt's recent published piece, a collection of poetry called Seven Glass Bowls, was published in 2003.

In addition to all of Marlatt's published works she can be heard on the CD Like Light Off Water, Otter Bay, 2008, reading passages from her classic poetry cycle, Steveston. With music by Canadian composers Robert Minden and Carla Hallett, the CD offers a delicate resonance of microtonal nuance and lyrical intimacy surrounding Marlatt¹s poetic voicing, rhythm and imagery. In 2006 Marlett and her work were the subject of an episode of the television series Heart of a Poet produced by Canadian filmmaker Maureen Judge.

Marlatt has also taught at several colleges and universities. These include: University of Alberta, University of British Columbia, Capilano College, University of Calgary, University of Manitoba, McMaster University,  Mount Royal College, University of Saskatchewan, Simon Fraser University, University of Victoria and University of Western Ontario. She also received four awards in her career. She received the MacMillan and Brissenden for creative writing; the Canada Council award; the Vancouver Mayor's Arts Award for Literary Arts; and the Order of Canada for her contributions to Canadian literature. Marlatt also founded the West Coast Women and Words Society.

Marlatt is currently a student of the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism, and currently lives in Vancouver, B.C.

title: Daphne Marlatt


text:
Decantation

Decantation is a process for the separation of mixtures of immiscible liquids or of a liquid and a solid mixture such as a suspension. The layer closer to the top of the container—the less dense of the two liquids, or the liquid from which the precipitate or sediment has settled out—is poured off, leaving denser liquid or the solid behind. The process typically is unable to remove all of the top layer, meaning the separation is incomplete or at least one of the two separated components is still contaminated by the other one.

Immiscible liquid separation
Decantation can be used to separate immiscible liquids that have different densities. For example, when a mixture of water and oil is present in a beaker, after some time a distinct layer between the two liquids is formed, with the oil layer floating on top of the water layer. This separation can be done by pouring oil out of the container, leaving water behind. Generally, this technique gives an incomplete separation as it is difficult to pour off all of the top layer without pouring out some parts of the bottom layer.

A separatory funnel is an alternative apparatus for separating liquid layers. It has a valve at the bottom to allow draining off the bottom layer. It can give better separation between the two liquids.

Liquid-solid separation
Decantation can also separate solid and liquid mixtures by allowing gravity to pull the solid fragments to settle at the bottom of the container. In laboratory situations, decantation of mixtures containing solids and liquids occur in test tubes. To enhance productivity, test tubes should be placed at a 45° angle to allow sediments to settle at the bottom of the apparatus.

A centrifuge machine may also be used in decantation as the natural process of settling down is time-consuming and tedious. A centrifuge forces the precipitate to the bottom of the container; if the force is high enough, solids can aggregate to form pellets, making it easier to separate the mixtures. Then the liquid can be more easily poured away, as the precipitate will tend to remain in its compressed form.

A decanter centrifuge may be used for continuous solid-liquid separation.

Examples

Decantation is frequently used to purify a liquid by separating it from a suspension of insoluble particles (e.g. in red wine, where the wine is decanted from the potassium bitartrate crystals to avoid unsavory taste). This makes the wine more tonic and astringent.

Cream accelerates to the top of milk, allowing the separation of milk and cream. This is used in the cheese industry. Fat is determined in butter by decantation.

To obtain a sample of clear water from muddy water, muddy water is poured into another container, which separates the water from the mud.

In the sugar industry, the processing of sugar beets into granular sugar involves many liquid–solid separations; e.g. separation of syrups from crystals.

Decantation is also present in nanotechnology. In the synthesis of high quality silver nanowire (AgNW) solutions and fabrication process of high performance electrodes, decantation is also being applied which greatly simplifies the purification process.

After using a desiccant to absorb water from an organic liquid, the organic liquid can often be decanted away from the desiccant.

The process of deriving vinegar also requires decantation to remove fats and biomolecular antioxidants from the raw substance. Plasma can be separated from blood through decantation by using a centrifuge.

Mercury is disposed of in water bodies during mining, turning the water unfit and toxic. The mercury can be removed through decantation.

title: Decantation


text:
Talk:Platonic love

Love and sex
I fail to see the connection between "love above sex" and Plato's symposium. I think the original author of the article is confused about the public misuse of the term and the actual philosophical notion. If I'm not mistaken, love, as described in Plato, has little to do with transcending sex drive, but more about the pursuit of truth in the sense of platonic forms. CasperRAWR —Preceding undated comment added 21:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC).

 * Platonic Love (2005)
 * Entry: Platonic Intercourse is True to Platonian Philosophy

Physiological coupling between two entities on a level of intimacy between pair-bonded individuals has been historically referenced as an opposing engagement to the philosophy manipulated by observers of Platononian perspective in reference to Plato's comments on sexual desire. Sexual desire can then be defined, in this context, as a lust for the experience of having specific regions of the human anatomy stimulated solely for the purpose of chemically hormonal increases and dopaminergic upregulation. Without taking into account the contextual associations and dependency-bondings that occur in relation to the sensations integrated with these reactions, the subject being bonded with is seemingly irrelevant. However, with this said, sexual desire and physiological coupling are entirely separate events. Sexual desire has intentions of being relieved of dependency on chemical addiction; Physiological coupling is a bonding being confirmed between paired individuals. In physiological coupling, the subjects involved are just as important as the chemical exchanges occurring between them.

The term was first used by Plato when commenting on the dangers of chemical dependency to sexual experience. Predecessors of Platonian Philosophy then termed non-sexual exchanged between individuals as "Platonic". However, since Plato was referencing the desire and not the exchange, it is more accurate to say that what "Platonic" precisely means is:  The act of not depending on chemical addiction occuring during sexual experiences.

To be even more accurate, in reference to the intention of the statement:  The act of not allowing chemical dependencies during sexual experiences interfere with productivity and critical thinking ("higher loves").

Using the intended definition of "platonic", displayed above, makes it possible to apply the term "platonic" to an act of physical bonding that is seemingly sexual. Since dopamine uptake has been researched as directly proportional to reinforcement learning, the chemical reactions that are involved with physiological coupling can also be used as way to control when reinforcement is distributed. The act of integrating the chemical reinforcement associated with physiological coupling for the purposes of learning, unification, and communication combines both the physiological aspect of mutual embodiment with the mental processing during productive critical thinking. Therefore, the term "platonic intercourse" can be accurately precise and a true-to-platonian-philosophy (TPP) statement. Yama Thi Khuu 19:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)Yama Thi Khuu

Hmm... I'm thinking that we're ignoring an aspect here. After all, for a few centuries it was thought that spouses should have a strong Platonic relationship. Certainly they HAD sex. As I recall, the point of Platonic love was that it wasn't about sex, unlike Erotic love. Note how Erotic urges were supposed to be pushed into chaste "Courtly" love.Dunkelza

Not just between a man and a woman, but EB1911 might not have wanted to say so? -- The Anome

Eh? Dates back to Sir William Davenant's Platonic Lovers (1636)? Translated versions of Don Quixote (with the first book pulished in 1604 and the second part in 1614) use platonic lover(no clue if the Spanish version uses it) Specifically chapter 25(XXV) paragraph 41, where Quixote says,"...for my love and hers have been always platonic..." I used the gutenburg text. http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/9/9/996/996.txt -Anonymous writer

I removed yonder wandering sentence. It does nothing for the article. Who are some and who are others? --VKokielov 06:50, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"dopaminergic upregulation" .. that doesn't make sense. Misuse of the term upregulation which is related to increased density of dopaminergic receptors. --Anon 4 Aug 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.200.13.5 (talk) 09:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Spiritual?
The opening sentence of this article describes platonic love as "a deep and spiritual connection." Whether or not platonic love is "spiritual" seems like a matter of opinion to me. Whose opinion is it? Certainly not that of individuals who do not believe in the spirit or in a spiritual world. Thirtysilver (talk) 07:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Fails to explain modern usage
To much of this article discusses the history surrounding the term while only the first sentence really attempts to explain what it means in the modern sense. In addition, this sentence is confusing. More should be added in the intro in order to explain, in a few sentences, what it means when a modern author uses the term "platonic love"   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.1.219 (talk) 23:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Incoherent sentence reaction
-Is the parenthesis saying that a non-sexual friendship is overtly romantic, or that a non-sexual friendship is not overtly romantic? This use of i.e. is akward, but it essentially means romantic yet non-sexual, not implying anything about the each type of relationship.

-[W]hat does "subject to gender pairings" mean? It means that you forgot to include 'not,' which removes limits on any sexual preference, meaning it could be between two men, two women, or a man and a woman. It does not imply anything about romantic or deep relationships in the sense that the others are or are not dependent upon a member's sex, but merely qualifies something that may or may not be present in the description of the other types of relationships

-Either way the writer is trying to include multiple possible gender pairs in a sentence that purports to describe one "simple example." It is, admittedly, not 'simple' per se, but it is a generic description of the idea, a formula for the idea if you will, which states that it is a deep romantic, yet non-sexual, relationship between two people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WonRei (talk • contribs) 04:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Incoherent sentence
"A simple example of platonic relationships is a deep, non-sexual (i.e. overtly romantic) friendship, not subject to gender pairings and not excluding close relatives."

This sentence doesn't many any sense. Is the parenthesis saying that a non-sexual friendship is overtly romantic, or that a non-sexual friendship is not overtly romantic? Either way it's false, since romance can be non-sexual (as in courtly love) and sex can be non-romantic (as in a casual hook-up). And what does "subject to gender pairings" mean? Is the writer trying to say that platonic love can happen between any combination of genders, or that it need not be between an opposite-sex pair (as if romantic love were limited to opposite-sex pairs)? Either way the writer is trying to include multiple possible gender pairs in a sentence that purports to describe one "simple example." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.198.25 (talk) 12:37, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Quotes
The quotes section mentions only negative quotes. How can that be? Gerrit CUTEDH 18:48, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'll remove some of them until someone get's some positive quotes. Johhny-turbo 00:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Hehehe. Still unfixed more than a year later...

I've taken the liberty of removing these quotes: They do not contribute to the article. Jellocube27 00:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) "Platonic Love is like getting laid. Without getting laid."
 * 2) "Platonic love is like finding an oasis in a desert. But then that oasis won't give you any."

Interpretation
The paradox section is all unsourced interpretation, and therefore POV. It should say who sees this as a paradox. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 15:41, 23 December 2005 (U

 * I think that with the recent additions we should have enough sources showing the conflict between the two contrasting readings of the term. Haiduc 12:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It's better, but there are still a few problems, imo. The last paragraph ("In order to clarify. . .") basically says that "some" believe something, which is a so-called "weasel word" and is unsourced. I'd leave out the last paragraph entirely. As for the second-to-last paragraph ("Thus the term. . ."), it also has a few problems. I'll try re-wording it, and I'll remove the last paragraph. See if you think that helps. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 20:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Your changes make sense, but I think we need to find a way to re-integrate the "Platonical love" argument. This is what the article in Practical Philosophy has to say about it: In the popular mind Platonism is associated with the concept of Platonic love, which is understood today as a non-sexual relationship between heterosexual friends. As the concept of Platonic love is far from doing justice to Plato’s complex theory of love and sex, French scholars found it helpful to distinguish between amour platonique (the concept of non-sexual love) and amour platonicien (love according to Plato) (Gould, 1963, p. 1). See what you think of the present version. Haiduc 21:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It looks great. Thanks for your work on this article! – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 23:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a joke, surely!
"Platonic love in its modern popular sense is an affectionate relationship into which the sexual element does not penetrate" Oh, come on! How can a reputable encyclopedia allow such flagrant innuendo in the educational intercorse that occupies its pages?

but it's funny, no one's dying, let it go —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.11.147 (talk) 01:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

FAITH & RESPECT
You clearly go against the principles of Wikipedia to mock someone's opinion, let alone point out their flaws...criticism should not be tolerated, but I admire your knack for tracking down obscenities and innuendos. Let's stay with the topic, shall we? This "reputable" encyclopedia exists because of us. (To not be biased, I posted a section below on Platonic Love.)

--Sir Tyler Cole 10:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Platonic Love in Japan
In Japan, it's known as "Puratoniku Ai" or "Platonic Ai." It's an extremely popular thing in manga & anime, esp. in shoujo stuff where men are depicted soft, emotional, & dramatic (& women are too, to an even grosser extreme). In manga, doujinshi, anime, & novel, platonic love is used hevily to describe a near-insectuous relationship between close relatives, such as siblings. In yaoi (wich is targeted at women) it's same-sex 90% of the time, aka boarderline homosexual/incestual love. They also use it to describe the intence but position-respected relationship between a person & their bodyguard.

A good example of this relationship is in the anime Princess Princess. Its about boys that dress as girls to be mascots for their all boys school. By the end it's a bit more than just a breif thought of love between two of the "Princesses". Cute, but not overly gay. Well, yeah REALLY gay, but in an adorable way. You can watch it on Veoh.com. Reccomended!151.202.6.65 16:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)Masuricurl

"especialy when might be otherwise"
??? --VKokielov 00:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Misleading!
I do not wish to insult anyone but the whole paragraph "Paradox" is very very badly written about the sexual desires of Socrates, Plato etc! I mean when someone reads the following sentence:

("...all belonged to the community of men who desired boys...")

thinks that these men desired only boys and this is far from being true!

For example Socrates was a married person and he admired women equally with men! An example of this is Sappho! On the other hand Plato was also admirer of women and in fact he was the first philosopher who claimed that women can be equally good philosophers as men!

The following lines are from the article about The Republic of Plato:

 * That "good city" is depicted as being governed by philosopher-kings; disinterested persons who rule not for their personal enjoyment but for the good of the city-state (polis). The paradigmatic society which stands behind every historical society is hierarchical, but social classes have a marginal permeability; there are no slaves, no discrimination between men and women.

Also please carefully read the following paragraph, which shows the two opposite views that Plato had about this and I will post a part of here:

 * Later, however, in his Laws, Plato spoke up against the decadence into which traditional Athenian pederasty was sinking, blamed pederasty for promoting civil strife and driving many to their wits' end, and recommended the prohibition of sexual intercourse with boys, laying out a path whereby this may be accomplished.

However, I am new to Wikipedia and before I make any changes I would prefer to initiate a discussion as to what's the best way to say these things! A.Cython (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Are we to understand that Socrates had an affair with Sappho?!

 * I see no problem indicating in the article that the interest in boys was not necessarily exclusive.

 * What has the good city to do with Platonic love?
 * Haiduc (talk) 22:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

 * To the best of my knowledge there are no evidence that Socrates had an affair with Sappho but he did admired her though (e.g. calling her the 10th mousse)! Also see the opinions of Socrates about love and pederasty. In ancient times in greece there was no community (i.e. a subgroup of a society) of men desiring boys, but that was part of the whole society, a common belief/tradition of the education of young men.
 * It is true that there was an interest in boys or young men i.e. Socrates-Alcibiades, but as I mentioned above, it is misleading since many people today haven't read first the article about homosexuality (especially towards boys) in ancient times to understand this kind of desire. You might say it "was not necessarily exclusive", but to me and some other people (that I have showed them) it was clearly misleading and they agreed with me that it needs rephrasing!
 * About the good city: as I said, Plato in his ideal city, he was against pederasty, which contradicts what it is written!

 * What I am suggesting is that the first part of the paragraph "Paradox" to be rewritten in such way that maintains the meaning, but at the same time it does not mislead the reader about historical figures' sexual perspectives! A.Cython (talk) 23:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Please proceed. This is a collaborative effort. Haiduc (talk) 02:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Contemporary meaning
While i understand this article deals with the original greek definition of the term and is properly sited and seems nuetral and encyclopedic.....I was wondering if the contempory definition shoulf have a small note of mention or a section. Unless I missed this, it could help avoid the current vandal who keeps removing referenced information.--69.62.180.178 (talk) 23:14, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Uncomfortable with this subject? Edit something else!
Frankly I do not approve of this article falling under the scope of Project LGBT Studies. It seems to me that there is little here but the same sex situation of sometype of relationship. HOWEVER, (big however, LOL) the subject is not really about a sexual relatioship and further research should be done by editors to understand what some of this is discussing. I can see it was attempted to be explained yet I feel it falls short of a clear enough explanation because it relies to heavely on the sex.

I am not worried about a debate on the coverage of the project, it is fine with me if everyone else wants it, but my point is my being uncomfortable with this page carrying the badge of the gay community when it is not truly an article about gays, the gay community or gay history, doesn't mean I can just change it on a whim. This subject is more akin to class association, but my opinion is just that, mine.

Anyway, there seems to be a vandal among us, editing here that continues to change the core subject by deleting information regarding the practice of the sexual relationship between Plato and young boys. It is extremely understandable. Must people don't have a clue about this subject and even many scholars have a hard time describing it properly. But the editor is still vandalising the article by changing it's lead and core subject to fit something so sterilized it completely looses it's original meaning.

TheDecanome continues to remove accurate and fully referenced material in the lead. To say it is against consensus falls very short of what he is doing. His edits remove material in place of about two words to remove material the editor obviously disapproves of.--Amadscientist (talk) 04:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I should mention that I have discussed this with the editor and while showing him the references I noticed that they actualy did not mention man-boy in the books used. While the editor had other ideas in mind his removal of that phrase was actualy correct and I have made the copy edit to reflect what was said by both authors.--Amadscientist (talk) 06:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

 * get your LGBT crap (yes) out of my platonic relationships.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.91.223 (talk) 11:16, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Minor changes in lede
I opened the complete link to Pederasty in ancient Greece and copy edited the sentence to be more accurate to that link and exchanged the word "Love" one time in the lede to Eros where it was appropriate.--69.62.180.178 (talk) 18:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Inline citations
It apears that the citations lack proper formating. No page is listed where the information is found and the ISBN number is lacking as well. I will take a few moments and adjust these.--Amadscientist (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Cushy job
You know, Platonic love is a hell of a lot more than what Cushman thinks it is. He does not belong anywhere near the lede, which has to be a editorial distillation of the topic, to be supported later with citations such as you presented. Otherwise it sounds like this is something Cushman made up. Haiduc (talk) 02:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Speaking of made up...the references to the mention of man-boy in reference number two and three do not support the claims. Niether book said that. I have copy edited the statement to fit within the statements made in both books.--Amadscientist (talk) 06:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

could be romantic
sometimes the friend may have deep feelings for someone but the other wants to keep their relationship platonic or both love each other but do not share those feelings.--Sweetheart2009 (talk) 23:50, 29 June 2009 (UTC)sweetheart2009

Definition?

 * Has anyone noticed that the article never actually says what platonic love is? THE AMERICAN METROSEXUAL 15:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely agreed. This article has way too much jargon to be accessible to the reader.  bibliomaniac 1  5  04:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.136.218 (talk) 14:22, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So what the hell is "Platonic love"? Are there are many definitions as societies have defined it differently? Are they bastardisations of what Plato came up with? Then explain them clearly and how they differ. My socially driven and probably misconceived view is that Platonic Love is the relationship between two people that is unsexual adoration. That view could be totally misconceived but after reading the article i'm more inclined its how we should see as a man, other men as equally beautiful as women but in a non-sexual way. Which doesn't make sense to me because women are beautiful partially because it is in a sexual way. So please correct my ignorance with information which is clear. I'm not really convinced I've understood the article at all.124.171.185.36 (talk) 17:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I am concerned about this article's clarity, no clear definition of platonic love is given, yet many details and permutations are discussed, leaving me confused as originally thinking platonic love meant non-sexual love. The wiki dictionary states this meaning then points to this confusing mess. Perhaps a disambiguation is needed between the modern definition of 'platonic love' and 'Plato's philosophy of love'
 * Just wanted to say I agree with all of the above comments. Not only does this article not define Platonic love as it related to Plato's theories, it doesn't explain how the modern definition came to be.

What is it on about?
Very confusing and unclear. I remember there being a good article here a year or so ago, now it's unreadable un-summarised academic nonsense which most wikipedia readers will not find useful and will just be confused by. Fancy giving a proper definition of platonic love anywhere?

Why is the Close Relationships Bar Here?
How does the "Close Relationships Bar at the side of the article enhance it? Is this not slightly off topic? I know its related, but really. Does it let anyone understand platonic love? NO! I vote to help clarify the article by deleting it.Knightt (talk) 15:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Would the Plato bar be more appropriate? Pollinosisss (talk) 16:58, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Why has this article been altered? Why has "above sex" been replaced by "non-sexual" in the first sentence?
Why has this article been altered? It initially said "platonic love is a chaste but strong love that is above sex". of course, it is not always possible to give an exact definition of human emotions, motives and spiritual issues, and the words may have multiple meanings. But i think, the previous definition gave a good idea of the core meaning, derived by Plato's "The Symposium" (which does not necessarily mean exactly that). What do you call that type of love anyway (deep, unconditional love that transcends the flesh- a rare love that is depicted in works like Charles Dickens' "A Tale of Two Cities") if not platonic love? It is used liberally in a not-so-profound sense to define affection between one's friends and family, but how can one say that that is all it stands for? It is a deep, spiritual love that does not sink to the level of carnal pleasure -which is why it is "above sex", not merely "non-sexual". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chalice Deathray (talk • contribs) 05:44, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Examples?
Any real life examples of platonic love? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.58.141.39 (talk) 13:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Is the Friend zone a Myth?
Out of curiosity, is it a stereotypical point of view that when you agree to being friends with someone of the opposite gender, that it's basically never going to progress to romance from that point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.237.112 (talk) 17:15, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The stereotypical view is that men and women can never just be friends because there is always the possibility that they will have sex with each other (at least if heterosexual, otherwise open to engaging in sexual activity with the opposite sex, and one is not considered too old by the other). Flyer22 (talk) 17:25, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

 * It seems to me that the stereotypical view is that if you claim to be friends with a MOTOS, either you secretly fancy the person, or it's liable to turn into something more. But it's just a stereotype, and I don't agree with it at all.  Some may affirm that they want to remain just friends; others may indeed develop into something more; yet others would just keep the options open.  There's just no rule about it. — Smjg (talk) 21:16, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Platonic love is erotic love sublimated
the article, and the Talk Page, seems to entirely miss the central idea of true Platonic love, that it's sublimated erotic love, i.e., sexual, specifically (male) homosexual erotic attraction.

the article seems to miss the idea of sublimation entirely. Nietzsche, inspired by Plato's Symposium, used the German word for sublimation, and Freud adapted it.

the lover resists the desire to act on his desires via his body, and instead channels them to into other, higher, outlets.

2601:18A:8100:33E0:78D3:C42E:7AD4:D559 (talk) 15:02, 2 December 2015 (UTC) Michael Christian

Same gender sex
Could you tell why the lead refers to same-gender sex? And which part of Plato's work explicitly refers to same-gender sex? No sources are given for this. Thank you. João Pimentel Ferreira (talk) 20:10, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Group Project
Myself and 4 other university students will be attempting to improve and expand this article over the next few weeks as part of a project for our anthropology class. - Oxidental — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oxidental (talk • contribs) 20:18, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Queerplatonic relationships
The concept of "queerplatonic relationships", which has repeatedly added to and removed from this article, appears to originate from the asexual/aromantic scene; however, it also seems to be connected to relationship anarchy. It describes a relationship (between people of any gender) that is considered much closer, deeper and more intense than a regular friendship, but is not of a sexual nature and is not perceived as "dating" by the partners, either (and therefore not described as "romantic love", either, because the element of falling in love – compare limerence and puppy love – appears to be missing, and perhaps the aspect of passionate love too). The concept of companionate love sounds like it might be what partners in a queerplatonic relationship experience. (It also occurs me that the partners in such a relationship may sometimes compare their relationship to love between siblings – chosen siblings, so to say.)

The most similar concept already described on Wikipedia (even in its own article) I can find is romantic friendship (which sounds itself paradoxical, but appears to be a long-established concept), despite having "romantic" (or alternatively "passionate") in its name. I have therefore added romantic friendship and relationship anarchy as associative links. I wonder if the redirects queerplatonic and queerplatonic relationship should point somewhere else, perhaps romantic friendship, or possibly relationship anarchy or Romantic orientation, although I think these are less helpful. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 04:28, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

"Queer platonic" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Queer platonic. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 17 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. BDD (talk) 14:10, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Circular reference
Section 3.1 Definition starts with a definition with a footnote that references ScienceDaily. However, the definition at that link references this article. So this is a circular reference, which is useless.

Incoherent section on "virtue"
Reading through the subheading "virtue" under heading "Classical philosophical interpretation", it is hard to see what the author of this section intended, in fact it appears almost ungrammatical.

First of all, what is "virtue" according to "Greek philosophy"? - did the author intend to state, "virtue according to Platonic philosophy"?

Second, "...how closely reality and material form equates good, positive, or benevolent" - is this intending to say that material form equates to goodness, etc., or that material form somehow aids the equation of good, positive, or benevolent? This section is not necessarily incoherent, but it is unclear what is actually meant. It also appears irrelevant to reference linguistic relativism in the context of the Symposium, unless someone is capable of demonstrating why it is relevant.

Third, the citation given in the last fragment simply makes no sense in context. The quote seems to equate beauty and goodness, which is common enough when considering the question of transcendentals (that "goodness" and "beauty" are transcendentally convertible, along with "being"), but the interpretation given by the author of the wiki section seems to be that virtue is being equated with "the good." Yet nowhere here is virtue even mentioned. If the author was attempting to show that "good" had been substituted incorrectly for "virtuous", then it needs a greater elaboration. ShawKeogh (talk) 08:30, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Exlusion of Islamic views and interpretation in "historic views"
Essentially stated in the title of this topic. The works of Aristotle and Plato were essentially as important to middle ages Islamic societies and the faith's development as the works of st Paul's were for early Christianity! Essentially stated in the title of this topic. The works of Aristotle and Plato were essentially as important to middle ages Islamic societies and the faith's development as the works of st Paul's were for early Christianity! And despite this, the article neglects to mention anything about the middle East and it's scholar's interpretations or the resurgence of popularity of classical philosophical/sociological works being due to the crusades.

I'm not stating that middle ages Islamic Philosophy and/or its interpretations of classical philosophers is superior to European/Christian Renaissance scholars, I am putting forward the view however that this article should have the warning of "this article does not represent a global view". 92.237.155.25 (talk) 22:54, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Platonic love


text:
Separation

Separation may refer to:

Films

 * Separation (1967 film), a British feature film written by and starring Jane Arden and directed by Jack Bond
 * La Séparation, 1994 French film
 * A Separation, 2011 Iranian film
 * Separation (2013 film), an American thriller film starring Sarah Manninen
 * Separation (2021 film), an American horror film

Literature

 * The Separation (Bury Novel), an 1830 novel by Lady Charlotte Bury
 * The Separation (Priest novel), a 2002 novel by Christopher Priest
 * The Separation (Applegate ovel), a 1999 novel in the Animorphs series by K.A. Applegate
 * Separation, a 1976 Canadian political novel by Richard Rohmer

Music

 * Separation, a 2011 album by Balance and Composure
 * Separation (EP), a 2006 EP by Halou
 * Separations (album), a 1992 album by British alternative rock band Pulp
 * Separation (band), a Swedish straight edge hardcore punk band
 * Separation mastering, in music recording

Law and politics

 * Marital separation, when a married couple ceases living together without a divorce
 * Legal separation, a legal status where married couples may disentangle their finances without divorce
 * Nonconformity to the world (separation from the world), a belief among some Protestant religious groups that the members of a church should be separate from "the world"
 * Political separation (separatism), advocacy of a state of cultural, ethnic, tribal, religious, racial, governmental or gender separation from the larger group
 * Separation of church and state, the idea that religion and government functions should be separate

Mathematics and science

 * Separation (behavior), the behavior of flocking animals to stand off from their neighbours
 * Separation (statistics), a problem encountered in fitting models for categorical outcomes
 * Flow separation, separation of a fluid boundary layer from the surface of a solid body moving relative to the fluid
 * Intertemporal portfolio choice, where in some contexts portfolio choices for many periods can be made separately
 * Separated sets, related concept in topology, two sets disjoint from the other's closure
 * Separation axiom, concepts in the area of mathematics called topology
 * Separation of concerns, in computer science (and problem-solving in general)
 * Separation of variables, in mathematics to solve certain (separable) differential equations
 * Separation principle, in control theory
 * Separation process, in chemistry
 * Separation theorem (disambiguation): several different theorems related to separation, in different scientific disciplines, for example:
 * Mutual fund separation theorem, allowing a portfolio optimization problem to be separated into smaller problems
 * Point-pair separation, in an order two pairs of points may or may not separate each other

Other uses

 * Separation (aeronautics), rules to minimise the risk of collision between aircraft in flight
 * Separation (United States military), the process by which a service member leaves active duty
 * Separation anxiety disorder, an anxiety disorder in which an individual experiences excessive anxiety regarding separation from home and/or from people to whom the individual has a strong emotional attachment
 * Racial separation, the separation of different racial groups in daily life
 * Six degrees of separation, the idea that everyone is on average approximately six steps away, by way of introduction, from any other person on earth
 * Curdling of an emulsion in cookery is called "separation"

title: Separation


text:
LACNIC

LACNIC (Latin America and Caribbean Network Information Centre; Registro de Direcciones de Internet para América Latina y Caribe, Registro de Endereçamento da Internet para América Latina e Caribe) is the regional Internet registry for the Latin American and Caribbean regions.

LACNIC provides number resource allocation and registration services that support the global operation of the Internet. It is a not-for-profit, membership-based organisation whose members include Internet Service Providers, and similar organisations.

Functions
LACNIC's main functions are:
 * Allocating IPv4 and IPv6 address space, and Autonomous System Numbers
 * Maintaining the public Whois Database for the Latin American and Caribbean region
 * Reverse DNS delegations
 * Representing the interests of the Latin American and Caribbean Internet community on the global stage

Formation
Since 1993, academic organizations in Latin America like ENRED – Foro de Redes de América Latina y el Caribe, discussed the need of a register for Latin America, independent from the influence of the United States. In 1998 during an ENRED meeting in Panama including NIC-MX, this theme was discussed and they learned that another group formed by commercial organizations like CABASE (Cámara Argentina de Base de Datos y Servicio en Línea) and ECOM-LAC (Latin America and Caribbean Federation for Internet and Electronic Commerce), were also discussing the idea of a Latin American registry.

On January 30, 1998, Ira Magaziner, then the senior adviser to President Clinton for policy development, released a discussion paper, known as the "green paper" after the DNS root authority incident. A revised version known as the "white paper" was released on June 5. This paper proposed a new organization to handle internet resources (that later became ICANN). The International Forum for the White Paper organized four meetings, the final one in Buenos Aires was attended by South American communication organizations.

Those organizations joined by ECOM-LAC, argued that Latin American IPs addresses could be handled by a local entity and the agreement for creation of LACNIC was signed in Santiago, Chile, on August 22, 1999, during the second ICANN meeting.

An Interim Board was defined with six members:
 * AHCIET (Ibero American Association of Research Centers and Telecommunication Companies), Raimundo Beca
 * CABASE (Argentine Chamber of Databases and Online Services), Jorge Plano, later substituted by Oscar Messano
 * CGI.br, José Luis Ribeiro
 * ENRED (Network Forum for Latin America and the Caribbean), Julian Dunayerich; later substituted by Raul Echeverria
 * NIC.mx (NIC Mexico), German Valdez
 * ECOM-LAC, Fabio Marinho

The agreement to form LACNIC was submitted on August 26, 1999, to Esther Dyson, then Chair of ICANN Interim Board, and the business plan was presented to ARIN. Statutes were created and it was decided that LACNIC headquarters would be in Montevideo, with technicians and equipment in São Paulo, at the NIC.br premises.LACNIC was established in 2001, with administrative offices in Montevideo, Uruguay, and technical facilities provided by CGI.br of São Paulo. The criteria for a new regional Internet registry was formally recognized by ICANN during its Shanghai meeting in 2002.

Initiatives

 * 2004 FRIDA: Aided by various international agencies to provide grants related to various issues such as gender equality in technology.
 * 2013 AMPARO project: Started for addressing cybersecurity issues across the region via training workshops.

Countries - LACNIC region

 * Argentina
 * Aruba
 * Belize
 * Bolivia
 * Brazil
 * Chile
 * Colombia
 * Costa Rica

 * Cuba
 * Curaçao
 * Dominican Republic
 * Ecuador
 * El Salvador
 * Falkland Islands
 * French Guiana (France)
 * Guatemala
 * Guyana

 * Haiti
 * Honduras
 * Mexico
 * Netherlands, (Caribbean) (Bonaire, Saba, Sint Eustatius)
 * Nicaragua
 * Panama
 * Paraguay
 * Peru

 * Saint Martin
 * Sint Maarten
 * South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (UK)
 * Suriname
 * Trinidad and Tobago
 * Uruguay
 * Venezuela

Membership
Today, LACNIC has a total of over 8,500 members in the following categories:

 * 1) Active Founding Members: AHCIET, CABASE, CGI-Br, eCOMLAC, ENRED, NIC-Mx
 * 2) Active A Members
 * Those who receive IP address space directly from LACNIC or indirectly through national registries NIC Brazil and NIC Mexico, as well as those who have received address space from ARIN corresponding to the address space allocated to LACNIC and who apply for admission.
 * 1) Adhering Members:
 * 2) * Organizations based in the LAC region or that carry out their activities mainly in LAC, which are involved in Internet development and/or composed of Internet service providers, make a relevant contribution to Internet-related policies in the region, agree with the goals of LACNIC and apply for admission.
 * 3) * Organizations that manage IP addresses that are not part of the address space allocated to LAC and are geographically located in the LAC region.
 * 4) * Any person, company or institution designated as such by decision of the LACNIC Member Assembly in recognition of their activities in furtherance of LACNIC's goals.
 * 5) * Any natural or legal person who makes a significant financial contribution to support LACNIC.
 * 6) * Organizations that receive only an ASN do not become LACNIC members.

The Number Resource Organization
With the other RIRs, LACNIC is a member of the Number Resource Organization (NRO), which exists to protect the unallocated number resource pool, to promote and protect the bottom-up policy development process, and to be the focal point for input into the RIR system.

title: LACNIC