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Jan Ravens

Janet Ravens (born 14 May 1958) is an English actress and impressionist, known for her voice work on Spitting Image and Dead Ringers.

Early life
Ravens grew up in Hoylake, then in Cheshire, on the west side of the Wirral with her father, a local government clerk, and her mother, a nurse. She attended West Kirby Grammar School for Girls, where BBC Radio 4 presenter Sheila McClennon (You and Yours) was two years below her. She studied education studies and drama at Homerton College, Cambridge and was first female president of Cambridge University Footlights Club in 1979–80.

Career
After Cambridge, Ravens became a radio comedy producer. Her first television role was in the ITV series, Just Amazing. She joined Jasper Carrott's comedy, Carrott's Lib, in 1983. In 1986, she played the heavily pregnant Vanessa Plowright in the "Tourists" episode of Farrington of the F.O. (broadcast 13 March). In 1986, she accompanied then husband Steve Brown on the Capital Radio satirical show Brunch, along with DJs Paul Burnett, Roger Scott and comedians Angus Deayton and Jeremy Pascall. In 1994, she spent a year with the RSC. She has done much voice-over work, being the Cadbury's Caramel bunny for several years, and was the seductive voice of a can of apple Tango. She has also appeared on Just A Minute and I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue on Radio 4, Whose Line Is It Anyway?, Have I Got News for You, No Frills, Alexei Sayle's Stuff and in Dictionary Corner on Channel 4's Countdown (one of the shows parodied on Dead Ringers). She was producer of the Radio 4 comedy Elephants to Catch Eels.

Repertoire
Ravens has regularly imitated Newsnight host Kirsty Wark, Charlotte Green formerly of BBC Radio 4 (with double entendres), Ellen MacArthur (who regularly bursts into tears), Nigella Lawson (with double entendres), Ann Widdecombe (narrating fanciful racy storylines in her novels), Patricia Routledge's Hyacinth Bucket, Queen Elizabeth II, a chirpy Sandi Toksvig, a stern-faced Gillian McKeith, Sophie Raworth (with a bemused school-girl grin) and Fiona Bruce (with barely concealed filthy invitations) of BBC News, Anne Robinson of The Weakest Link, Lesley Garrett (often referring to her generous cleavage), Hillary Clinton, Theresa May, Liz Truss and the Geordie-accented Ruth Archer from the BBC Radio 4 series The Archers. She also appeared as the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in an episode of Are You Being Served? although only her voice is heard.

Other television
Ravens appeared in a series-three episode ("Monday Morning will be Fine") of David Renwick's series One Foot in the Grave as Pat Aylesbury, one of the neighbours to whom Meldrew turns after being burgled. From 1996 till 2001, she played Janet Grimley, the mother in The Grimleys, a nostalgic sitcom set in 1970s' Dudley.

In autumn 2006, Ravens appeared on the BBC entertainment programme Strictly Come Dancing partnered with Anton Du Beke. She was eliminated in the fifth week.

In spring 2007, she appeared on the BBC's The Truth About Food, exploring how foods affect behaviour. Also in 2007, she appeared in Ronni Ancona's comedy sketch show, Ronni Ancona & Co.

She won the edition of Celebrity Mastermind on 1 January 2008, the second woman to win, Edwina Currie having been the first. Ravens appeared as Effy's art teacher in E4 drama Skins.

In February 2010 and November 2017, she was a panellist on QI, and in 2012 appeared as Susan in the sitcom Hebburn.

Radio
In late 2016, Ravens featured in the BBC Radio 4 miniseries Desolation Jests alongside David Jason, Rory Bremner and John Bird. The four-part show was written by David Renwick.

Personal life
Ravens's first husband was Steve Brown but the couple divorced in 1993. She married the vice-president of Universal Music Group, Max Hole, in July 1999 in Richmond upon Thames. She lives in Barnes. She has three sons: Alfie and Lenny by her first husband, born in April 1987 and January 1991, and Louis by her second, born in June 1998.

She is an ambassador for the charity ActionAid and has visited Kenya with the organisation and raised money for it on Celebrity Mastermind.

title: Jan Ravens


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Dead Ringers (series)

Dead Ringers is a British radio and television comedy impressions show broadcast on BBC Radio 4 and later BBC Two. The programme was devised by producer Bill Dare and developed with Jon Holmes, Andy Hurst and Simon Blackwell. Among its stars are Jon Culshaw and Jan Ravens. The BBC cancelled the television run in 2007 after five years. Dead Ringers' return to Radio 4 was announced in 2014.

History
The programme first aired on BBC Radio 4 in January 2000. Dead Ringers returned to radio in July 2014.

In November 2001 BBC One said it had commissioned a pilot for a television version. The pilot was well received and in August 2002 a full series was commissioned, this time on BBC Two. The TV show ran for seven series and was axed in April 2009. In 2002 the BBC's Arena broadcast a documentary about the series entitled ''Radio Ha! - Meet The Dead Ringers'', directed by Fisher Dilke. It featured interviews with the cast and writers, and behind-the-scenes footage from a studio recording from the eighth series.

Awards

 * 2001
 * Dead Ringers
 * Radio Academy Awards Gold - The Comedy Award
 * Won
 * 2001
 * Dead Ringers
 * Broadcasting Press Guild Award for Best Radio Programme
 * Won
 * 2001
 * Dead Ringers
 * The British Comedy Awards - Best Radio Comedy
 * Won
 * 2001
 * Dead Ringers
 * The Heritage Foundation Awards - Best Radio Comedy Show
 * Won
 * }
 * Dead Ringers
 * The Heritage Foundation Awards - Best Radio Comedy Show
 * Won
 * }

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Dead Ringers (series)


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User talk:Piolinfax

Español

Hello. Well. A sysop did a very bad SQL query (only sysops can run queries). The query slowed heavily the servers and eventually made Wikipedia out of order (Spanish, French, etc... I do not know why English was still OK). A develloper stopped the query and now everything is OK again.

I have also added a link to your Spanish talk/user page. It is better to put your questions in user:talk XXX, instead of user:XXX (see link at the bottom of the page for switching between both) since when you put a message on a talk page, the user get a red messsage (yo have a new mail) on whatever page he goes until he see the message. The user:XXX page is usually dedicated to the user : description of his hobbies, bookmark of his best articles, picture of his dog, etc.

Regards

Youssefsan 18:55 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Change skin here: Special:Preferences -- Notheruser 22:15 18 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * You can also access that link from the "Special pages" page, which is linked in the Nostalgia menu bar. --Eloquence

Wikcinario Administrators
I got a request from you to make Pybalo and Lourdes Administrators on the Spanish Wiktionary. Checking, I see Pybalo is already an Administrator, and whereas Lourdes is not, there is one 'Lourdes Cardinal' Administrator. Is that the same person, or should I still be making Lourdes an Admin? - Andre Engels 12:59, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Quechua
I thought you might be interested in the Quechua wikibook. Come and lend a hand when youve got some spare time, if you'd like. The bellman 05:37, 2004 Dec 3 (UTC)

Maori
Happy New Year! If you are the Piolinfax whom I have just greeted on Wikipedia Maori, many thanks! You could add interwikis to the user page. Robin Patterson 23:02, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Public ip
I am honestly not sure. Blocks to public proxies usually last no more than 24 hours -- it is unlikely that you will run into one. I suppose you can always switch computers and try again. If you really want to know the answer - I highly suggest you ask someone with more experience than me. The available literature is very poorly written. Frankly, I'm interested in this myself. I will do some research, ask some sysops, and get back to you on this.--Muchosucko 4 July 2005 09:47 (UTC)
 * Here's what I got from an admin:
 * My understanding is that you can't edit, because I've heard of people who weren't able to edit under their user names because of an IP block that had accidentally affected them (for instance, if they were using AOL). I can't say for sure, though. Presumably you can still log in. Everyking 4 July 2005 09:58 (UTC) --Muchosucko 4 July 2005 10:01 (UTC)

History lost
Hi, Angela. In the Wikcionario for some reason I cannot explain a history record of a user's talk page previous to a 14:59 7 jul, 2005 (UTC) has disappeared: this one. Do you know if it can be restored. Thanx! :) - Piolinfax 18:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Have the namespace names changed recently? This could have caused it. If not, I've no idea what's happened, so it should be reported at and perhaps someone can fix it. Angela. 21:47, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians in Spain
Hello Piolinfax this message is a invitation to categorize your userpage in the category: Category:Wikipedians in Spain or in the adecuate sub-category and erasing your name from the equivalent list since the lists of users are in process of being transformed into categories. Remember: You can categorize your user page in more than one category. example: your actual location and your origin country.

for more info see: User categorisation and Category:Wikipedians by location

Saludos. --Mnts 07:12, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

IP block - sorry
Sorry the IP block affected you. It was from a repeat offender evading other blocks. Only a long block seemed to get the point accross. I did not know it was a shared IP or I woul not have blocked for so long. The way to solve the problem is to implement Blocking policy proposal, so please go support that. - Taxman Talk 20:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Pic of the Day
Hi Piolinfax,

Just to let you know that your photo Image:Catedral de Segovia.jpg is due up for Pic of the Day on the 3rd December. As this will be a weekend, it should also appear on the Main Page. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Picture of the day/December 3, 2005. -- Solipsist 20:02, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I need your help
I have a problem beacose I dont know to writte in english. But I think that you are going to understand my problem.

The Problem

The Serbian govermand propaganda is has putit sam peopel in en:Wikipedia. This peopel must present mosty teritory of Balkan als Serb teritors in History. They have putit the Montenegro and Kosovo als serbian land. That is not a big problem beaose everybody can see that is not history but mitology. The problem is that this peopel (1-2 max) have to many user names. And they know how is working (system in) Wikipedia. This peopel are doing every think only to destroi the image of Kosovo amd they makes a 1000 revrius of the articel Kosovo. I have started for a year hear but I dident knowit how is in wikipedia, I was new. Now I know how many of them are hier in en:Wikipedia, I have watchit all te time. During the last edit war they have a suces to delet the Kosovo-geo-stub with the argument that Kosovo is not regotnaiset countrie. But if you see my page and you understand my broced english you are going to see that Kosovo it is in same level a country how the Serbia and Montenegro it is. Please see :Template:Kosovo-geo-stub this must be putit in the articel abot Kosovo. For more info see User talk:Hipi Zhdripi--Hipi Zhdripi 18:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Remember Me as a Time of Day
Look into the Air - Time Stops - The Moon Is Down - Glittering Blackness - Welcome, Ghosts - It's Natural to Be Afraid - Your Hand in Mine - Catastrophe and the Cure - First Breath After Coma - Have You Passed Through This Night? --birdy (:> )= 13:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC) 350px|those who tell the truth shall live forever

Kokura's luck
Hi, Piolinfax. I removed the following sentence that you added to "Kokura" three years ago.

 * Consequently, the expression “Kokura's luck” became common in Japan for escaping a disaster without being aware of it.

I suppose this might be based on someone's writing you read, but as far as I know, there is no such common expression in Japan. If you want to restore this, please present an original Japanese phrase that can be proven as a common expression by, e.g., indicating number of google hits. --Sushiya 03:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

FPC delisting nom
See Featured picture candidates/delist/Catedral de Segovia. Could you provide a larger version of that image? - Mgm|(talk) 08:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:AllofaSudden.jpg
Hello, Piolinfax. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:AllofaSudden.jpg) was found at the following location: User talk:Piolinfax. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or    media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 03:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The guilty, criminal file happened to be "lawful" (at least for a while now) but no bot like Gnome (Bot) automatically mended the mess since the file was restored in, let's see, 22:49, 16 December 2006. Good. All this starts to be like a déjà vu of CommonsDelinker. [[Image:XD-smiley.png|20px]] (actually I think it is very sad but my doctor says laughing is good for health) Piolinfax 19:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Those who tell the truth shall die.jpg
Hello Piolinfax, an automated process has found an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, such as fair use. The image (Image:Those who tell the truth shall die.jpg) was found at the following location: User talk:Piolinfax. This image or media will be removed per statement number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. The image that was replaced will not be automatically deleted, but it could be deleted at a later date. Articles using the same image should not be affected by my edits. I ask you to please not re-add the image to your userpage and could consider finding a replacement image licensed under either the Creative Commons or GFDL license or released to the public domain. Thanks for your attention and cooperation. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 01:21, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The guilty, criminal file happened to be "lawful" (at least for a while now) but no bot like Gnome (Bot) automatically mended the mess since the file was restored in, let's see... OMG! WHEN was it restored??? Fishy lack of information or just a bug? Anyway. All this begins to be like a déjà vu of CommonsDelinker. [[Image:XD-smiley.png|20px]] (actually I think it is very sad but my doctor says laughing is good for health) Piolinfax 19:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Block exemption
I have granted your account an exemption from IP blocking. This will allow you to edit through full blocks affecting your IP address when you are logged in.

Please read the page IP block exemption carefully, especially the section on IP block exemption conditions.

Note in particular that you are not permitted to use this newly-granted right to edit Wikipedia via anonymous proxies, or disruptively. If you do, or there is a serious concern of abuse, then the right may be removed by any administrator.

I hope this will enhance your editing, and allow you to edit successfully and without disruption. Thatcher 13:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Thatcher. A few days ago I read the message you left for me in my user page here. After thinking about it, I would appreciate that you retire the exemption from my nick: on one hand I do not know anything about anonymous proxies and I prefer to be away of such possibility so that I cannot get to one by mistake. On the other hand (very important to me) I think I now prefer to experience en.wiki as it is for any others using the same IPs as me, without any special criteria because of my nickname or my history of edits as Piolinfax. Regards --Piolinfax (talk) & 81.135.161.69 (Talk), 19:11, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't understand the philosophical purpose of standing in solidarity with someone who spread obscene images across hundreds of pages, but if you want the exemption lifted, I will do it. The ban only covers certain IP addresses and locations so you will still be able to edit from other locations if you choose. Good luck. Thatcher 21:44, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, it is you who think I am "standing in solidarity with someone who spread obscene images across hundreds of pages". The "all-into-the-same-sack-because-of-one-or-a-few-making-a-lot-of-noise's-insensibility" rationale does not work for me, though, especially when those "all" (even if they are few or just one) are likely to have no mouth nor well advertised media making them individuals in the mass's eyes. For the record: I am writing this from East Ham Library and the IP is today 82.198.250.79, which seems to have been blocked in block along with some others of the same family since September 2008. Having a look to the history of that IP, it is clear that most of the edits (but certainly not all) are vandalism but it is quite interesting to have a look at their last edits (31st July 2008). Can this block then be called "solidarity with vandals" under your previous comment? No, certainly it cannot (except by perceiving things only the simple way) but it is clear they got what at least one of them wanted in this case. Certainly they got their goals... at least until September 2009.

 * I think that it would be more useful adding these almost systematically vandalic IPs to a special list (visible only to admins or not) and systematically "rash" them with prompt short blocks whenever vandalism happened... few things are worse for a vandal than being cut in the middle of a fun spree. Unfortunately I am not aware of how feasible or effective such a procedure would be in en.wiki but it is an idea and certainly worth trying. So far, exemption seems a potentially dangerous option to me —maybe I am wrong, though, because I am not very acquainted with the technical bits involved in the process.

 * Another factor (if it is philosophical or not is not something I have pondered much about) for my decission is I am currently more and more personally interested in knowing a bit more about the way Wikimedia's perception by the average and casual anonymous user is developing and being one myself provides part of the other bit of the bigger picture that registered users and admins tend to see as a plain abstraction.

 * Finally, I would have appreciated if you had warned me about the conditions of exemption before applying it to my nick. I am not saying you did wrong by applying it; please note that I can perfectly understand and share your reasons for doing so but in my case, if I had known about the conditions and your intention about the exemption beforehand, probably we both could have saved some time and work. Thanks for revoking the exemption of my nick in en.wiki. I noticed I can still edit here (seemingly only in this page); if this is part of the exemption, you can lift it now too, thanks; as I told you earlier, it will not make a big difference in my edits here and should I eventually change my mind I would directly apply for exemption. So far, if I have something to point out I can always resort to e-mail. Sorry for all the fuss. Regards (and many thanks for the good luck wishes, I certainly could use some good luck :) --Piolinfax (talk)

 * I can see edits you can't, from registered users who have either vandalized from that library, or who have used that location to create accounts with which they committed vandalism from other locations. The publicly visible contributions do not show registered users.  And the conditions template was written to reflect all possible concerns about the block exemption; basically the expectations are that you won't misuse the exemption to vandalize (which is merely sensible); the proxy thing is less of a concern and, really, you can't "accidentally" use an anonymizing open proxy, finding one is a pretty deliberate act. Thatcher 12:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Piolinfax


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Talk:French toast

Please fix "Variations" section
This section is messed up. Can someone fix it. It states "The hard bread is softened by dipping in a mixture of milk and eggs, and then fried." and then "The bread is sliced on a bias and dipped into a mixture of egg, milk, sugar, cinnamon and vanilla. The slices are pan-fried in butter...". This is very poor editing on someone's part. 207.131.251.16 (talk) 23:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC) Thomas

Dry bread vs stale bread.
Under preparation and serving, dry bread and stale bread are made appear to be synonymous terms, which they are not. Which is better for french bread? I do not know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.183.249 (talk) 04:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Cornell University: Wikipedia Class Project
Cornell University: Wikipedia Class Project

We are Cornell students all enrolled in a class called Online Communities. Here is a link to our class page. Education Program:Cornell University/Online Communities (Fall 2013)

For one of our class assignments we have to pick a C-Class article on Wikipedia and expand, edit, and elaborated it to create a better article. Lauren and I are both Communications majors and Royce is an Information Science major. We are relatively new to Wikipedia so please be patient with us and help guide us in the right direction if we are doing something wrong! 0 Fun fact, Jesus Christ ate this eggy bread/french toast/gypsy toast the day before he was crucified he ate this for breakfast. Jesus was so full he decided to just have bread and wine for his dinner commonly known as his last supper. This is why this is called soul food and is commonly eaten with kentucky fried chicken. It was called Jesus Crust for hundreds of years afterwards but eventually became Nun's bread in Monastery circles. Source: French toast in ancient Rome - http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq1.html#frenchtoast    #yoloswag sswweervve  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.245.41.193 (talk) 12:43, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

We will be working on elaborating on all the sections with more specific details. We will also be working to incorporate more references into the articles as well as images. We are still collecting sources so as we get more we will make sure to post them so everyone can know where we are getting our information from.

Shannon: I will be working on elaborating on the preparation and variations of French Toast.

Lauren: I will be working on developing and elaborating more on the history of French Toast. For example: where it came from and how the name was developed.

Royce: I will be making sure that all the formatting is correct because I am familiar with coding and using the Wikipedia language. I will also be elaborating with the Pain perdu section as well as adding a recipe section — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShannonClare06 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Feedback from Niteshgoyalwiki (talk)
 * Move the Template for Educational Assignment to the top of the Talk Page. It doesn't exist as of now.
 * There is a response in your talk page post to comments by Prof. Leshed - you should follow that to see what changes occurred and what needs to be done.
 * It will be a good idea to talk to other contributors (and the person who commented to Prof. Leshed) to follow up on suggestions and talk to other wikipedians about your concrete plans on what you want to add and modify in the article.
 * You might want to look at existing encyclopedias or food article written chefs about the variations of French Toast for content, in addition to content that you (will) propose.
 * Remember to nominate your article to did you know by the end of class on Oct 1. Niteshgoyalwiki (talk) 15:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Feedback from Prof. Leshed
 * You have chosen an interesting article to expand! Here are some comments to help you get started:
 * Add the course assignment template at the top of the talk page.
 * Sign all posts on the talk page with four tildes ~ so that your post doesn't go "unsigned".
 * The mentors need more information beyond "we will be elaborating all the section with more specific details" - provide more information about what details you plan to add to which section. For example, Shannon, what details will you add to the preparation and variations of French Toast - what details are missing there that you are planning to add? Where will you be getting references from and images from?
 * Add a link to your user pages from this proposal.
 * Happy editing! LeshedInstructor (talk) 20:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Hi students. I think your project sounds like a great idea - however, be aware that this article has been cleaned up significantly in the last year - see this version for a reference as to what was cut - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=French_toast&oldid=526280738 阝工巳几千凹父工氐 (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Professor! I was just catching up on your comments. I was busy studying and stressing over the LSATs so I did not have a ton of time to really digest everything. I wanted to see if some of the progress we made was okay. We have noted some more specific edits in the talk page and I am currently working on a rough draft of some of my parts in the sandbox. ShannonClare06 (talk) 01:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06

 * Cornell students, great to have you here. Contributing to a Wikipedia article on a topic is a great way to learn more about the topic, to understand how collaborative editing works, and to contribute to a great public resource.
 * Unfortunately, I must say that I am disappointed in the quality of the edits over the past few days. (Though I don't know if they're all by Cornell students.) Here are a few observations:
 * A lot of words have been added without adding new information, just repeating information that's already in the article, or simply being wordier.
 * There is plagiarized material. ("Linguistic evidence confirms these origins...")
 * Low quality and clearly silly sources are being used uncritically -- how can French toast be named for Joesph [sic] French of 1724 or to 1871 when the OED has a 1660 source?
 * General sloppiness: unclosed parentheses, spelling errors "Joesph", copy-paste of formatted text, losing the link "in the Middle Ages [8]", grammatical errors "There also appears [sic!] to be different dates for when the word French toast was first officially [?!] used."
 * Wikipedia formatting conventions are not being followed (e.g. put the period before the footnote) -- here, correct formatting was replaced by incorrect
 * Loose and unsubstantiated wording, e.g., "For a traditional version of French toast" -- see my essay '"Original", "traditional", "authentic", and other distracting terminology'
 * Peculiarly vague and unprofessional wording: "This recipe was utilized for the old-world elite..."
 * The unhelpful nutritional information, which I previously deleted, and discussed on the Talk page, was put back in without first discussing on Talk.
 * Normally, I would just delete the low-quality changes, but I'll leave them in for now and see where this goes. If I don't see improvements soon, I think the best way to proceed would be to create a sandbox page for you to work on, and restore the page to the last good version. --Macrakis (talk) 01:26, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Why Was The Content of This Article Cut Down?
Hi, my name is Royce and I'm in the group that took French Toast as a school project. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I'm wondering why the French Toast page was cut down so much from this-> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=French_toast&oldid=526280738, to what it is now. Could someone point me in the direction as to why? Thanks. Roycecab (talk) 19:21, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

 * There appears to have been several issues that were addressed in the recent edit storm:
 * The first appears to related to tone, the information was presented in a way that was not neutral. It was written more like a lifestyle article.
 * A lot of the content appears to have been original research, that is it was being used to present findings an author had researched themselves.
 * Much of the information appears to have been anecdotal, with no supporting sources.
 * Some of the data appears to have been outright wrong.
 * Does this analysis help? --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 19:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

 * I looked over the old version. In terms of Wikipedia policy, the biggest problem with it is that much of the material doesn't have reliable sources. Substantively, a big problem is that it has a long section on variants in various countries presented as though there are distinct and distinctive variants in each country. This may or may not be true (I tend to doubt it and suspect that there is as much variation within countries as between them) and in any case is not well documented. The presentation of the name of the dish in various languages isn't really Wikipedia material either (though it may belong on Wiktionary); it would be more encyclopedic to say that there are families of names, e.g. "French toast", "lost bread", "poor knights" which appear in various languages. --Macrakis (talk) 04:10, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

 * By the way, some of the existing sources were pretty weak. I removed the Slate article for example, which is breezy and superficial, and replaced with much better references to medieval French and English practice.  --Macrakis (talk) 04:10, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the help! We are working on finding some better references for the article! ShannonClare06 (talk) 01:12, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06

On editing
Hello all from Cornell, just a quick note on how and what to add to an article. There is a Good article in a similar vein that you might want to take a look at, Gumbo. This article is considered to be one of the articles on a particular dish on Wikpedia.

So here is what I recommend to you:
 * Use the following structure as a guideline:
 * Lead (WP:Lead)
 * Etymology
 * Variations
 * History
 * Preparation and serving
 * Social aspects
 * See also (WP:See also)
 * References (WP:Sources)
 * External links (WP:External links)

I am going to be unavailable until Thursday as I have a paper due Wednesday, so I will only respond lightly. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Cornell University class project beginning edits
Hello Wikipedians!

We are looking to re-organize the format of the French Toast page, we want to place the following sections in this order: Etymology, History, Nutrition, Preparation/Serving, Variations, and Social Aspects. To begin, we would like to add the basic nutritional facts set by the USDA. Another part of our class project was to nominate the page to Did You Know, which has been submitted as of October 1st, 2013. We noticed there is only basic background information regarding the National French Toast Day, so we plan on expanding more on this topic. Under the history section, we are going to elaborate on the first known origins of French Toast, dating back to Roman Times. We're going to start with a Roman variation of the meal, since this is where it originated.

This is our starting point, and will add more throughout the week! Laurenjlloyd (talk) 18:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your interest in Wikipedia in general and the French toast article in particular. For prepared dishes like French toast, with a wide variety of recipes and ingredients, I strongly doubt that there is any meaningful nutritional analysis. It may be made with a huge variety of breads, different proportions of milk and eggs, different kinds of milk (skim to full-fat, maybe even cream...), different kinds and amounts of cooking fat (butter, lard, margarine), different temperatures of frying (which will affect how much fat is absorbed) and so on. --Macrakis (talk) 03:17, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for that insight. Yet the USDA does provide nutritional information for a certain preparation of french toast. Do you think that this is sufficient to include? Regardless, do you think that there is any medium by which we can find a true basis for french toast nutrition? I think it could really add to the page as nutrition in food is a big topic in itself. Thanks!Roycecab (talk) 18:55, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

 * No, I don't think it makes any sense. I am not sure what you mean by a "true basis for french toast nutrition".  As I said in my previous comment, recipes vary widely, so the nutritional content will vary accordingly. The USDA page gives the nutritional analysis for a 65g slice of French toast prepared with one particular recipe for French toast. There is no reason to believe that other recipes will have similar nutritional analyses, and certainly no reason to believe that typical slices of French  toast weigh 65g. --Macrakis (talk) 23:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I am specifically working with the introduction and the history/etymology. I have found that there are not a ton of scholarly references regarding French toast. Any advice? Also, I was looking to the Wikipedia article Gumbo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbo) for some guidance as it was recommended as a good reference point. ShannonClare06 (talk) 01:16, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06

 * I see that you changed the article from saying that the earliest attestation of French toast is in the Apicius to claiming that its origins are Roman, which is a huge leap of original research (and in the process removed the wikilink to the Apicius page).
 * You call French toast a "meal"; it is not a meal, but a dish. A meal is something like lunch or dinner.  A dish is something like eggs Benedict or fried fish. A dish is typically a component of  meal.
 * For sources, take a look at WikiProject_Food_and_drink/Tools/sources. Cornell has excellent libraries -- use them! There is a huge amount of information that is not on the Web.
 * As for National French Toast Day, perhaps one reason there isn't much background information on it is that it isn't a very notable phenomenon to start with? Is it perhaps a promotion by some particular restaurant or chain? --Macrakis (talk) 04:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Photos
Hello Cornellians. I was wondering if you were aware of Wikipedia Commons? It is a repository of photographs that can be used in Wikipedia articles. If you do a web search for that website and search there for French toast you will see several photos relatede to this subject. Do you think any of them are useful or worth including? Candleabracadabra (talk) 02:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Hello! We will be taking a close look at the photographs on the Wikipedia Commons.  Hopefully, some of them will be worth including because we really think that some photographs could make the article better.  ShannonClare06 (talk) 01:17, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06

 * Going along the lines of including pictures, are there standards to this? I can see many pictures that would be nice to include, but I am wondering if only relevant pictures should be included that tie to the text it stands next to. Are there norms to this, or is it more of a case by case basis? Thanks! Roycecab (talk) 19:00, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Have you looked at the Manual of Style Images section? Basically, images should add some useful information to the article and not be too repetitive.  The current number and variety of photos in the article seem to me about right.  The main thing that is missing is an example of savory French toast. --Macrakis (talk) 04:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Possible improvements

 * Do the opening paragraphs of the article do a good job of summarizing the rest of the contents of the article?
 * In the social aspects portion of the article there are a few links to other articles. Are these related to social aspects? Should these be in a different section (See also perhaps?) or maybe integrated into the article in some way? Should they be explained? What are these subjects and what do they have to do with French toast?
 * There is a sentence about French toast in Quebec. Is it in an appropriate section of the article?
 * There is a long list of toppings. Are all of these used to make french toast? I have never heard of french toast with cooked meat or beans. Who serves it that way? Is it a breakfast dish when prepared that way? Should some explanation be given of savory v. sweet preparations?
 * In your research what have you found out about French toast that isn't covered here?

Best of luck with you project. I will be watching and will try to respond where appropriate. Please let me know if I can be of any help. Candleabracadabra (talk) 02:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Course assignment
Hi Cornell folks working on this article. I see that you have been editing the article. Please make sure to be logged in when you are making edits so the teaching staff evaluating your work can attribute the contributions to you and give you credit for them. LeshedInstructor (talk) 13:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Cornell University Project: Thank You
We just would like to thank all the Wikipedia users for being helpful during the course of the project! Technically, the project ends today at 1:25pm. We learned a lot and it has been a wonderful experience being part of this online community.

Sincerely,

Shannon, Lauren and Royce

ShannonClare06 (talk) 13:16, 10 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06

Reliable sourcing needed for certain elements in the lead section

 * This seems like a rather silly dispute, but at any rate...

 * A statement in the article about the possible toppings on French toast was tagged (not by me) with better source, and I agreed and thus removed the statement. It was then reverted by, who suggested that I find a better source rather than deleting the info, as well as checking the talk page for a discussion on the situation. I then re-removed the info with the edit summary:

In the words of Template:Unreliable sources, "unreliable citations may be challenged or DELETED". And I see no relevant discussion on the talk page; if I missed it, please point it out to me.
 * Bienfuxia then re-reverted the info, as well as leaving a message on my talk page referring to this discussion. Okay, first of all, that discussion started in 2004, and it hasn't been touched since 2013. But more importantly, there is nothing there about improving the article; just random discussion about how to eat French toast. What is so difficult about waiting to reinstate the information when reliable sourcing can be found? (BTW, Bienfuxia, if you try to revert again, it will be a violation of WP:3RR.)  Erpert  blah, blah, blah... 05:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you think this is a silly dispute then that's a fair enough call - I should point out, though, that you are the one aggressively pursuing it. The statement was there first, as a result of the discussion (as you say, beginning a decade ago, but indicating this is a genuine difference between the dish in the USA vs the UK & Australia), we looked for good sources, but these are difficult to find for articles on food. So you cut half of the lede and we're left with an incomplete article. So well done there. 阝工巳几千凹父工氐 (talk) 05:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What part of "unreliable citations may be deleted" are you not understanding? And removing that statement definitely doesn't make the article incomplete.  Erpert  blah, blah, blah... 07:07, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No need for that tone. I'm saying that the description came before the citation was added. Do you understand the difference between Template:Better_source and Template:Unreliable_source? The deletion discussion here - Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_December_21 - sums it up pretty well. Am I going to have to stick a 'globalize' tag on here? The article is heavily US-centric without that sentence.阝工巳几千凹父工氐 (talk) 07:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You keep linking to years-old discussions, and consensus can change within that time period. Anyway, if you feel the need to add a globalize tag, have at it. (BTW, that sarcastic "so well done there" remark wasn't the warmest tone either.)  Erpert  blah, blah, blah... 03:55, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Why are you linking me to consensus can change? Where's this new consensus? Do you understand that it was Template:Better_source not Template:Unreliable_source? The difference is that 'unreliable' means you are questioning the veracity of the statement. I'm trying to make the article better here, no idea what you are doing.阝工巳几千凹父工氐 (talk) 06:48, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Deleting *citations* is different to deleting *the statement supported by the citation*. Personally, I reserve deletion of content that others have taken the time to create as the last resort, for when it can't be improved, and I've done due diligence to show that it's spam, vandalism, or simply irredeemably false. For everything else, I can tag to ask that the original authors of a passage do that due diligence for me. Delete-first seems an aggressive, confrontational approach to someone else's work: by destroying their work it's the contemptuous opposite of the edit-first approach, which cooperatively builds on that work.
 * As it is, because of deletions, the savory version of this dish is no longer mentioned on the page at all, backsliding from a position of truth to only giving half the truth.
 * So, I'm adding it right back in, but also adding refs from around the globe, including one from the BBC's Rachel Phipps (savoury: salt, pepper, ketchup), one from Jamie Oliver (sweet or savoury: salt, pepper), one from Australia (savory: salt, pepper), and one from Turkey (savory: chilli, cumin, mint, salt, pepper). I think that should cover all bases?
 * It's still not perfect (four refs is overkill, the last couple could probably go; refs in the lede are better in the body; etc). But it's inarguably better than just claiming the American way is the only way, which is what the page currently does. DewiMorgan (talk) 00:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Why and When Appear to Be Missing
Why is this particular dish called "French Toast?" When was it named "French Toast?" I read the Gumbo article and that sort of information is included in the first paragraph.Selesindrin (talk) 20:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Stale sliced bread
Hold on, how could this be a historical French dish used to preserve stale bread when it requires the bread to be sliced before it stales (try slicing stale bread and see what happens)? Historical people didn't ever slice their bread and then leave it unused, right? At least, not often enough to have a dish based around recycling it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.204.139 (talk) 02:43, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Slicing crusty, stale bread is why bread-knives are serrated :) DewiMorgan (talk) 07:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * In France stale bread is 1 day old bread ~ the french like their bread made daily ~ they are talking about what to use the stale (day old bread) for the next day ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 21:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Pain perdut in the History section
15 century English recipes are mentioned. There is a 12th century troubadour known as Marcabru who is believed to be from Gascony and was at first nicknamed Pan-perdut. This is likely the Old Occitan (Old Provencal) cognate of pain perdu although the context may or may not have been the same.Halconen (talk) 19:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Is milk required?
Milk makes the eggs go further, helps them to soak into the bread with less beating, and a pre-soak in milk allows the bread to change its texture. I don't believe it's required: some recipes omit it. But I'd say it's more common than the other optional ingredients, like the various herbs and spices, cheese, syrups, etc. The log shows: ...and it's been that way ever since. I think this edit history doesn't support a consensus that milk is a required ingredient, but I think "often" was fine, maybe even "typically": "bread soaked in eggs, typically with milk". Typically has the advantage that it's a harder, more specific term, so less likely to be silently removed. I think I'd have a very hard time providing a good canonical reference saying milk's definitively not required, however, since proving a negative is troublesome. I can find many online recipes which exclude milk, but not from any chefs or cookbooks with a well-known reputation. There are certainly good references from reputed cooks giving recipes that include milk, but I also can't find any references that say all eggy-bread recipes worldwide must include milk, nor that a recipe without milk would not be considered "eggy bread" by anyone. So that's my rationale for editing to use "typically", and creating an "optional ingredients" section in the sidebar. But I know it's far from an ideal rationale, hence writing it here for discussion. DewiMorgan (talk) 02:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * 2003 Jan 30 - Page created, giving ingredients as "bread and eggs, often also with milk and spices".
 * 2015 Jul 12 - Sidebar amended to add "often milk" in the "main ingredients" section.
 * 2015 Dec 6 - Sidebar amended to remove the word "often", by an IP editor.
 * 2016 Nov 3 - Lede amended to add a preliminary "milk-soaking" step, by an IP editor.
 * 2017 Sep 17 - Lede amended to "eggs whisked with milk".
 * 2017 Oct 21 - Lede amended to "eggs and milk".

Is the De re coquinaria of Apicius legitimately talking about eggy bread, or just milk bread?
Both references for the quote derive from the 1936 translation by Joseph Dimmers Vehling. A somewhat better copy of Vehling can be found on Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29728

Vehling's translation says: "Break [slice] fine white bread, crust removed, into rather large pieces which soak in milk [and beaten eggs] fry in oil, cover with honey and serve." - I have corrected the quote here to include these square braces, but done nothing further, as deletion would only be backed by OR.

The items in square braces are the translator's notes and additions to the text. Of this text, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Apicius/home.html writes:

"The Hill edition, while adequate, is not as good as it could have been, however. It does not provide a Latin text, is said to be based on inferior manuscript tradition, and Vehling's translation is quirky and inconsistent. The best full English translation of Apicius seems to be that of Barbara Flower and Elisabeth Rosenbaum, published in 1958." - I have not got a copy of this translation, and can't find one online.

The Latin is also there, in what looks like a 1920 transcription collated from multiple sources (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16439/16439-h/16439-h.htm#bk7), and for this passage it says: "Aliter dulcia: siligineos rasos frangis, et buccellas maiores facies. in lacte infundis, frigis, ex [in] oleo, mel superfundis et inferes." Close as I can tell, with negligible Latin, this translates to "Another sweetmeat: wheat bread break, into bits more big. In milk immerse, cool, take from oil, honey on top the dish." Or more grammatically: break bread into big chunks, soak in cool milk, cook in oil, sprinkle with honey".

It bears the annotation "ex Vo, et in EV |" which I suspect is referring only to the word "[in]", and which I interpret from the intro notes to mean "from Vollmer, a copy in the Vatican, and a copy in Cheltenham", but the intro notes that explain the annotation key are in abbreviated Latin too, translated into a kind of ascii art table, so it's really hard to tell.

To me, this doesn't look like eggs are involved at all. That's just something Vehling made up. But maybe "in lacte infundis" implies egg in some way that only a classical Latin speaker would get?

So like I said, I haven't done anything beyond this, and don't think I can as it would be OR, but I'm decently convinced that Vehling's translation and claim are incorrect. DewiMorgan (talk) 06:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Gypsy toast
I can't find any specific source that says WHO first called it gypsy toast, or when, or why, but if you do a simple Google search for "gypsy toast" you will find many, many hits, including many recipes for it. Some of them appear to date back at least several years and all of them seem to be reputable enough. Unless we can definitely show that it was introduced into WP by a vandal and THEN outsiders started calling it by that name because of the WP source, I would be inclined to leave it in. And keep looking.... (Just looked at my magisterial M-W Unabridged of 1940 and *IT* has "french toast" but not "gypsy toast". Hayford Peirce (talk) 20:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Just did a careful examination of the History of the phrase "gypsy toast" in the Wikipedia article, and it was only inserted about a week ago. So my speculation that *other* sources were using WP in order call their recipes "gypsy toast" was wrong. You can find internet recipes for "gypsy toast" going back at least five years or more. Hayford Peirce (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Google Books finds mentions of Gypsy toast more than 10 years old:
 * Nigella Lawson, 2010
 * Élodie Bonnet, 2006
 * It's even mentioned in a Gypsy cookbook, Gypsy Feast, 2004 p. 77
 * That said, Gypsy toast can also mean other things
 * A "toast" for drinking (supposedly) used by Gypsies
 * a recipe involving stewed tomatoes
 * fried eggs and toast
 * bread fried in some chicken/goose fat and garlic, in a Hungarian cookbook p. 253
 * But it is not a very common name, so it's not clear that it belongs in the article at all. --Macrakis (talk) 22:21, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. Unless there are some actual British restaurants that list it on their menus as "gypsy toast", I would remove it. A few websites are not enough. Hayford Peirce (talk) 15:18, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Nice to meet you all! ~ this source here mentions Gypsy toast as one of the names. Regards ~mitch~ (talk) 16:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It was added to the article in 2013. Gypsy/Gipsy toast/bread does seem to have some currency, but it is rare in Google Books, and doesn't seem to appear in standard references (OED, Oxford Companion to Food, etc.). Maybe the original adder can give us some more background.
 * Mitchellhobbs, random newspaper articles are not great sources for things like this. There's a good chance that the reporter relied on WP for those names. --Macrakis (talk) 16:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yea I kinda figured they might be off of WP ~ after I did some checking about the paper ~ it's a stand alone ~ that why I did not make it RS ~ Here is a little bit of reading, talking about North England I just started researching ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 16:40, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Although ~ the Daily Press owned by Tribune Publishing speaks of Gypsy toast in one of their articles, maybe an RS? ~mitch~ (talk) 17:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, THAT certainly seems like a reliable source. On the other hand, Newport News is in the United STATES, not the United KINGDOM. Hayford Peirce (talk) 17:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * LOL ~ Yea I'm still looking around the UK ` I got to go and run some errands ~ I'll do some more when I return ~ Nice to meet both of you all ~ ~mitch~ (talk) 17:35, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I guess I'm not going after all. "a tiny pot of home-made brown sauce to go with my gypsy toast" ~mitch~ (talk) 18:09, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Having a mother who cooked a lot and who read and used a lot of cookery book and magazines, having lived all round the UK, I am pretty sure 'Gypsy Toast' was not a UK thing until relatively recently. As in, it's an import via American media exposure, and celebrity chefs have included it in their books as it is something novel rather than traditional.   SandJ-on-WP (talk) 15:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

There should be an attempt to explain why “French toast” is so-named
This article offers no explanation as to why a dish that clearly wasn’t invented by the French is called “French toast”. From what I’ve read, there isn’t a definitive explanation, but the “most popular theory” is that it is named not after France, but some 18th-century American restauranteur called “Josef French”. People who read this article will want SOME explanation, and 1 or more of the strongest available should be provided—even if one has to qualify that no specific explanation has been solidly confined. It would be unfair to leave readers clueless when explanations—however inconclusive—exist. A topic called “Possible Derivations of the Name”—providing at least 1 theory, along with assessments of its/their reliability, would suffice. 24.112.172.98 (talk) 08:06, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

 * agreed! It's a weird omission. 119.18.0.30 (talk) 07:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Do you have a reliable source for this?
 * As for "It would be unfair to leave readers clueless when explanations—however inconclusive—exist." That's not really the Wikipedia approach. If there are reputable writers who make plausible claims, that's one thing. But I can't find any trace of a Josef French, let alone of his being connected to this dish. --Macrakis (talk) 19:45, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Name
I keep seeing references to French toast being called eggy bread…seriously why would anyone with more than 3 brain cells call it eggy bread, it’s called French toast. 101.119.92.239 (talk) 08:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

 * Guessing because you live in Australia (according to your IP) rather than Northern England, where this is a common, uncontroversial name. 阝工巳几千凹父工氐 (talk) 00:28, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

French Toast APICIUS recipe includes [and beaten eggs] documented - revision needed
Directly taken from text translation includes [and beaten eggs] The Project Gutenberg eBook of Apicius: Cookery and Dining in Imperial Rome, by Joseph Dommers Vehling. ""'''[296] ANOTHER SWEET DISH ALITER DULCIA BREAK [slice] FINE WHITE BREAD, CRUST REMOVED, INTO RATHER LARGE PIECES WHICH SOAK IN MILK [and beaten eggs] FRY IN OIL, COVER WITH HONEY AND SERVE [1]. [1] “French” Toast, indeed!—Sapienti sat!'''"" see link https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29728/29728-h/29728-h.htm Pretzelfactory (talk) 14:17, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:French toast


text:
Octet rule

The octet rule is a chemical rule of thumb that reflects the theory that main-group elements tend to bond in such a way that each atom has eight electrons in its valence shell, giving it the same electronic configuration as a noble gas. The rule is especially applicable to carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and the halogens; although more generally the rule is applicable for the s-block and p-block of the periodic table. Other rules exist for other elements, such as the duplet rule for hydrogen and helium, and the 18-electron rule for transition metals.

The valence electrons can be counted using a Lewis electron dot diagram as shown at the right for carbon dioxide. The electrons shared by the two atoms in a covalent bond are counted twice, once for each atom. In carbon dioxide each oxygen shares four electrons with the central carbon, two (shown in red) from the oxygen itself and two (shown in black) from the carbon. All four of these electrons are counted in both the carbon octet and the oxygen octet, so that both atoms are considered to obey the octet rule.

Example: sodium chloride (NaCl)

Ionic bonding is common between pairs of atoms, where one of the pair is a metal of low electronegativity (such as sodium) and the second a nonmetal of high electronegativity (such as chlorine).

A chlorine atom has seven electrons in its third and outer electron shell, the first and second shells being filled with two and eight electrons respectively. The first electron affinity of chlorine (the energy release when chlorine gains an electron to form Cl−) is 349 kJ per mole of chlorine atoms. Adding a second electron to form a hypothetical Cl2- would require energy, energy that cannot be recovered by the formation of a chemical bond. The result is that chlorine will very often form a compound in which it has eight electrons in its outer shell (a complete octet), as in Cl−.

A sodium atom has a single electron in its outermost electron shell, the first and second shells again being full with two and eight electrons respectively. To remove this outer electron requires only the first ionization energy, which is +495.8 kJ per mole of sodium atoms, a small amount of energy. By contrast, the second electron resides in the deeper second electron shell, and the second ionization energy required for its removal is much larger: +4562 kJ per mole. Thus sodium will, in most cases, form a compound in which it has lost a single electron and have a full outer shell of eight electrons, or octet.

The energy required to transfer an electron from a sodium atom to a chlorine atom (the difference of the 1st ionization energy of sodium and the electron affinity of chlorine) is small: +495.8 − 349 = +147 kJ mol−1. This energy is easily offset by the lattice energy of sodium chloride: −783 kJ mol−1. This completes the explanation of the octet rule in this case.

History

In 1864, the English chemist John Newlands classified the sixty-two known elements into eight groups, based on their physical properties.

In the late 19th century, it was known that coordination compounds (formerly called "molecular compounds") were formed by the combination of atoms or molecules in such a manner that the valencies of the atoms involved apparently became satisfied. In 1893, Alfred Werner showed that the number of atoms or groups associated with a central atom (the "coordination number") is often 4 or 6; other coordination numbers up to a maximum of 8 were known, but less frequent. In 1904, Richard Abegg was one of the first to extend the concept of coordination number to a concept of valence in which he distinguished atoms as electron donors or acceptors, leading to positive and negative valence states that greatly resemble the modern concept of oxidation states. Abegg noted that the difference between the maximum positive and negative valences of an element under his model is frequently eight. In 1916, Gilbert N. Lewis referred to this insight as Abegg's rule and used it to help formulate his cubical atom model and the "rule of eight", which began to distinguish between valence and valence electrons. In 1919, Irving Langmuir refined these concepts further and renamed them the "cubical octet atom" and "octet theory". The "octet theory" evolved into what is now known as the "octet rule".

Walther Kossel and Gilbert N. Lewis saw that noble gases did not have the tendency of taking part in chemical reactions under ordinary conditions. On the basis of this observation, they concluded that atoms of noble gases are stable and on the basis of this conclusion they proposed a theory of valency known as "electronic theory of valency" in 1916:

"During the formation of a chemical bond, atoms combine together by gaining, losing or sharing electrons in such a way that they acquire nearest noble gas configuration."

Explanation in quantum theory
The quantum theory of the atom explains the eight electrons as a closed shell with an s2p6 electron configuration. A closed-shell configuration is one in which low-lying energy levels are full and higher energy levels are empty. For example, the neon atom ground state has a full n = 2 shell (2s2 2p6) and an empty n = 3 shell. According to the octet rule, the atoms immediately before and after neon in the periodic table (i.e. C, N, O, F, Na, Mg and Al), tend to attain a similar configuration by gaining, losing, or sharing electrons.

The argon atom has an analogous 3s2 3p6 configuration. There is also an empty 3d level, but it is at considerably higher energy than 3s and 3p (unlike in the hydrogen atom), so that 3s2 3p6 is still considered a closed shell for chemical purposes. The atoms immediately before and after argon tend to attain this configuration in compounds. There are, however, some hypervalent molecules in which the 3d level may play a part in the bonding, although this is controversial (see below).

For helium there is no 1p level according to the quantum theory, so that 1s2 is a closed shell with no p electrons. The atoms before and after helium (H and Li) follow a duet rule and tend to have the same 1s2 configuration as helium.

Exceptions
Many reactive intermediates are unstable and do not obey the octet rule. This includes species such as carbenes, as well as free radicals and the methyl radical (CH3) which has an unpaired electron in a non-bonding orbital on the carbon atom and no electron of opposite spin in the same orbital. Another example is the radical chlorine monoxide (ClO•) which is involved in ozone depletion. These molecules often react so as to complete their octet. Electron deficient molecules such as boranes also do not obey the octet rule but share delocalized electrons in a manner similar to metallic bonding.

Although stable odd-electron molecules and hypervalent molecules are commonly taught as violating the octet rule, ab initio molecular orbital calculations show that they largely obey the octet rule (see three-electron bonds and hypervalent molecules sections below).

Three-electron bonds
Some stable molecular radicals (e.g. nitric oxide, NO) obtain octet configurations by means of a three-electron bond which contributes one shared and one unshared electron to the octet of each bonded atom. In NO, the octet on each atom consists of two electrons from the three-electron bond, plus four electrons from two two-electron bonds and two electrons from a lone pair of non-bonding electrons on that atom alone. The bond order is 2.5, since each two-electron bond counts as one bond while the three-electron bond has only one shared electron and therefore corresponds to a half-bond.

Dioxygen is sometimes represented as obeying the octet rule with a double bond (O=O) containing two pairs of shared electrons. However the ground state of this molecule is paramagnetic, indicating the presence of unpaired electrons. Pauling proposed that this molecule actually contains two three-electron bonds and one normal covalent (two-electron) bond. The octet on each atom then consists of two electrons from each three-electron bond, plus the two electrons of the covalent bond, plus one lone pair of non-bonding electrons. The bond order is 1+0.5+0.5=2.

Hypervalent molecules
Main-group elements in the third and later rows of the periodic table can form hypercoordinate or hypervalent molecules in which the central main-group atom is bonded to more than four other atoms, such as phosphorus pentafluoride, PF5, and sulfur hexafluoride, SF6. For example, in PF5, if it is supposed that there are five true covalent bonds in which five distinct electron pairs are shared, then the phosphorus would be surrounded by 10 valence electrons in violation of the octet rule. In the early days of quantum mechanics, Pauling proposed that third-row atoms can form five bonds by using one s, three p and one d orbitals, or six bonds by using one s, three p and two d orbitals. To form five bonds, the one s, three p and one d orbitals combine to form five sp3d hybrid orbitals which each share an electron pair with a halogen atom, for a total of 10 shared electrons, two more than the octet rule predicts. Similarly to form six bonds, the six sp3d2 hybrid orbitals form six bonds with 12 shared electrons. In this model the availability of empty d orbitals is used to explain the fact that third-row atoms such as phosphorus and sulfur can form more than four covalent bonds, whereas second-row atoms such as nitrogen and oxygen are strictly limited by the octet rule.

However other models describe the bonding using only s and p orbitals in agreement with the octet rule. A valence bond description of PF5 uses resonance between different PF4+ F− structures, so that each F is bonded by a covalent bond in four structures and an ionic bond in one structure. Each resonance structure has eight valence electrons on P. A molecular orbital theory description considers the highest occupied molecular orbital to be a non-bonding orbital localized on the five fluorine atoms, in addition to four occupied bonding orbitals, so again there are only eight valence electrons on the phosphorus. The validity of the octet rule for hypervalent molecules is further supported by ab initio molecular orbital calculations, which show that the contribution of d functions to the bonding orbitals is small.

Nevertheless, for historical reasons, structures implying more than eight electrons around elements like P, S, Se, or I are still common in textbooks and research articles. In spite of the unimportance of d shell expansion in chemical bonding, this practice allows structures to be shown without using a large number of formal charges or using partial bonds and is recommended by the IUPAC as a convenient formalism in preference to depictions that better reflect the bonding. On the other hand, showing more than eight electrons around Be, B, C, N, O, or F (or more than two around H, He, or Li) is considered an error by most authorities.

Other rules
The octet rule is only applicable to main-group elements. Other elements follow other electron counting rules as their valence electron configurations are different from main-group elements. These other rules are shown below:
 * The duet rule or duplet rule of the first shell applies to H, He and Li—the noble gas helium has two electrons in its outer shell, which is very stable. (Since there is no 1p subshell, 1s is followed immediately by 2s, and thus shell 1 can only have at most 2 valence electrons). Hydrogen only needs one additional electron to attain this stable configuration, while lithium needs to lose one.
 * For transition metals, molecules tend to obey the 18-electron rule which corresponds to the utilization of valence d, s and p orbitals to form bonding and non-bonding orbitals. However, unlike the octet rule for main-group elements, transition metals do not strictly obey the 18-electron rule and the valence electron count can vary between 12 and 18.

title: Octet rule


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Juste Olivier

Juste Daniel Olivier (October 18, 1807 – January 7, 1876), Swiss poet, was born in Eysins in the canton of Vaud; he was brought up as a peasant, but studied at the college of Nyon, and later at the academy of Lausanne.

Though originally intended for the ministry, his poetic genius (foreshadowed by the prizes he obtained in 1825 and 1828 for poems on Marcos Botzaris and Julia Alpinula respectively) inclined him towards literary studies. He was named professor of literature at Neuchâtel (1830), but before taking up the duties of his post made a visit to Paris, where he completed his education and became associated with Sainte-Beuve, especially from 1837 onwards. He professed history at Lausanne from 1833 to 1846, when he lost his chair in consequence of the religious troubles.

He then went to Paris, where he remained till 1870, earning his bread by various means, but being nearly forgotten in his native land, to which he remained tenderly attached. From 1845 till 1860 (when the magazine was merged in the Bibliothèque universelle) Olivier and his wife wrote in the Revue suisse the Paris letter, which had been started by Sainte-Beuve in 1843, when Olivier became the owner of the periodical. He also wrote for the Revue des deux Mondes, which published his correspondence with Sainte-Beuve. After the war of 1870, he settled down in Switzerland, spending his summers at his beloved Gryon, and died at Geneva on 7 January 1876.

Besides some novels, a semi-poetical work on the Canton of Vaud (2 vols., 1837–1841), and a volume of historical essays entitled Études d'histoire nalionale (1842), he published several volumes of poems, Deux Voix (1835), Chansons lointaines (1847) and its continuation Chansons du soir (1867), and Sentiers de montague (Gryon, 1875).

His younger brother, Urbain Olivier, was also a writer.

Authorities
Life by Eugène Rambert (1877), republished in his Ecrivains de la Suisse romande (1889), and also prefixed to his edition of Olivier's Œuvres choisies (Lausanne, 1879).

title: Juste Olivier


text:
Talk:Nursling, Hampshire, England

Nursling, Hampshire, England as an extension of the WikiProject London terminology, e.g. see Bethnal Green, London, England and the changes made on September 28, 2002.Harry Potter 13:06 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Then WikiProject London is wrong - there is no need to have a lengthy title like this. Nursling does the job just fine. --Camembert

title: Talk:Nursling, Hampshire, England


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Máire Geoghegan-Quinn

Máire Geoghegan-Quinn (born 5 September 1950) is an Irish former Fianna Fáil politician who served as European Commissioner for Research, Innovation and Science from 2010 to 2014, Member of the European Court of Auditors from 2000 to 2010, Minister for Equality and Law Reform from November 1994 to December 1994, Minister for Justice from 1993 to 1994, Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications from 1992 to 1993, Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach from 1987 to 1989, Minister of State for Youth and Sport from March 1982 to December 1982, Minister for the Gaeltacht from 1979 to 1981, Minister of State at the Department of Industry, Commerce and Energy from 1978 to 1979 and Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Industry and Commerce from 1977 to 1978. She served as a Teachta Dála (TD) for the Galway West constituency from 1975 to 1997.

Early and personal life
Máire Geoghegan was born in Carna, County Galway, in September 1950. She was educated at Coláiste Muire, Tourmakeady, in County Mayo and at Carysfort College in Blackrock, Dublin, from where she qualified as a teacher. She is married to John Quinn, with whom she has two children. Her novel The Green Diamond, about four young women sharing a house in Dublin in the 1960s, was published in 1996.

Geoghegan-Quinn was awarded an honorary doctorate of Laws (LLD) by NUI Galway in June 2014.

Political career
Her father, Johnny Geoghegan, was a Fianna Fáil TD for Galway West from 1954 until his death in 1975. His daughter successfully contested the subsequent by-election. From 1977 to 1979, she worked as Parliamentary Secretary (junior minister) at the Department of Industry, Commerce and Energy. She served as a member of Galway City Council from 1985 to 1991.

Geoghegan-Quinn supported Charles Haughey in the 1979 Fianna Fáil leadership election and was subsequently appointed to the cabinet post of Minister for the Gaeltacht. She became the first woman to hold an Irish cabinet post since Countess Markievicz had served as Minister for Labour from 1919 to 1921 in the Dáil Ministry during the First Dáil, and the first since the establishment of the Irish Free State in 1922.

In 1982, she was appointed Minister of State at the Department of Education. Her tenure was short because the 23rd Dáil lasted only 279 days, and a Fine Gael–Labour Party coalition was formed after the November 1982 general election. In opposition, she became Chair of the first Joint Committee on Women's Rights in 1983 and a member of the Joint Committee on Marriage Breakdown.

When Fianna Fáil returned to power after the 1987 general election, she became Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach. She had expected a senior government position, and was disappointed. She resigned in 1991, in opposition to Charles Haughey's leadership of the party. The following year Albert Reynolds, whom she now backed for the leadership, became Taoiseach and Fianna Fáil leader. For her loyalty to Reynolds, she was appointed Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications. She became Minister for Justice in 1993, in which post she introduced substantial law reform legislation, including the decriminalisation of homosexuality; she was also briefly acting Minister for Equality and Law Reform in late 1994, following the resignation of Labour Party Minister Mervyn Taylor from Reynolds' coalition government. When Reynolds resigned as leader of Fianna Fáil in November 1994, Geoghegan-Quinn was seen as his preferred successor in the position. In the resulting leadership election she stood against Bertie Ahern; a win would have made her the first female Taoiseach. On the day of the vote, however, she withdrew from the contest "in the interests of party unity". It was reported that she had the support of only 15 members of the 66-strong parliamentary party.

At the 1997 general election she retired from politics completely, citing privacy issues, after details about her 17-year-old son's expulsion from school appeared in the newspapers. "If his mother had been a homemaker, an architect or a businesswoman, this simply would not have happened" she commented. Other reports suggested that she saw her prospects for promotion under Ahern as poor, and a weak showing in constituency opinion polls indicated her seat could be in danger. She became a non-executive director of Aer Lingus, a member of the board of the Declan Ganley-owned Ganley Group, and wrote a column for The Irish Times.

Geoghegan-Quinn was appointed to the European Court of Auditors in 1999, replacing former Labour Party politician and Minister Barry Desmond. She was appointed for a second term at the Court of Auditors in March 2006, and resigned on 9 February 2010.

She was nominated by the Taoiseach Brian Cowen to become Ireland's European Commissioner in November 2009, and was subsequently allocated the Research, Innovation and Science portfolio.

In April 2010, after numerous calls were made over several days for Geoghegan-Quinn to surrender her pensions as an Irish former politician—which were worth over €104,000—while she remained in a paid public office, she did so.

In July 2015, it was announced that she would chair an independent panel to examine issues of gender equality among Irish higher education staff.

In March 2021, NUI Galway announced her appointment as chairperson of Údarás na hOllscoile, the University's Governing Authority, on a four-year term until 2025.

title: Máire Geoghegan-Quinn


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Barry Desmond

Barry Desmond (born 15 May 1935) is an Irish former Labour Party politician who was Minister for Health from 1982 to 1987 and Minister for Social Welfare from 1982 to 1986. He served as a Teachta Dála (TD) from 1969 to 1989, a Minister of State from 1981 to 1982, a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for Dublin from 1989 to 1994, and Ireland's member of the European Court of Auditors from 1994 to 2000.

Early life
Desmond was born in Cork in 1935, and was educated at Coláiste Chríost Rí, the School of Commerce and University College Cork. He became a trade union official with the ITGWU (which would later merge with other trade unions, becoming SIPTU) and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. His father Cornelius Desmond was Lord Mayor of Cork in 1965–66 and was active in the labour movement. Cornelius Desmond was the President of the ITGWU in Cork.

Political career
Desmond first entered Dáil Éireann at the 1969 general election, when he was elected as a Labour Party TD for Dún Laoghaire and Rathdown. He retained his seat there in 1973 and was then elected in 1977 at Dún Laoghaire, where he won a seat at every election until his retirement from the Dáil in 1989. From 1981 to 1982, he served as Minister of State at the Department of Finance with responsibility for Economic Planning, under Garret FitzGerald as Taoiseach. In 1982, after Michael O'Leary's resignation as Labour Party leader, Dick Spring was elected as the party's new leader and Desmond was chosen as his deputy.

After the November 1982 general election, Fine Gael and the Labour Party formed a majority government. In the second FitzGerald administration, Desmond was appointed Minister for Social Welfare and Minister for Health. FitzGerald began a major cabinet reshuffle in February 1986, with the intention to appoint him as Minister for Justice; Desmond refused, and Spring supported him in that attitude. The outcome was that he remained as Minister for Health while Gemma Hussey took on the Social Welfare portfolio.

On 20 January 1987, the Labour ministers resigned from the government, leading to the 1987 general election. At the election, Fianna Fáil returned to office. Desmond did not contest the 1989 general election, and on 15 June 1989 he was elected as a Labour Party MEP for Dublin, serving until 1994. He served as a member of the European Court of Auditors from 1994 to 2000, being replaced by Máire Geoghegan-Quinn.

After politics
He was elected president of the Maritime Institute of Ireland on 18 November 2006. He remains a member of the Council of the Maritime Institute of Ireland. As president he oversaw the revision of its articles of association and the securing of €3.2 million funding for the restoration of Mariners' Church, Dún Laoghaire, which houses the National Maritime Museum of Ireland.

title: Barry Desmond


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Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt

Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt is the debut album by the American musician John Frusciante, released on November 22, 1994, by American Recordings.

Frusciante was previously a member of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but left in 1992 after he became overwhelmed by their newfound popularity. He became severely depressed, developed a serious drug addiction, and isolated himself in his home to record music.

Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt combines avant-garde and stream-of-consciousness styles, with guitar, piano and effects on a four-track recorder. It was met with confusion and a mixed response from fans and critics, and sold 15,000 copies by 1996. Two years later, Frusciante rehabilitated and rejoined the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Background
Frusciante joined the Red Hot Chili Peppers in 1988 at the age of 18, and released his first album with the group, Mother's Milk, the following year. The follow-up album, Blood Sugar Sex Magik, was recorded in an empty mansion where the band decided to live for the duration of recording. Frusciante adapted well to the environment, and often spent his time alone painting, listening to music, and recording songs that would eventually make up the first half of the album, Niandra LaDes. Blood Sugar Sex Magik was released on September 24, 1991, and was an instant success. The album peaked at number three in the U.S. and went on to sell more than thirteen million copies worldwide. Soon after the album's release, Frusciante became overwhelmed by the band's newfound popularity. He felt that the Red Hot Chili Peppers were too famous, and wished they were still playing small nightclubs like they were before he had joined. During Blood Sugar Sex Magik's promotional tour, Frusciante began using heroin and cocaine heavily. He and vocalist Anthony Kiedis often argued before and after performances. According to Kiedis, Frusciante purposely sabotaged the Saturday Night Live performance of "Under the Bridge" by playing the wrong intro for the song and out of key. His relationship with the band had become progressively more strained, and he abruptly quit during the Japanese leg of their world tour in 1992.

Writing and recording
After leaving the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Frusciante continued to write and record solo material. He had been doing so since the age of nine, but had never considered releasing his material to the public. That was until several of his friends – including Johnny Depp, Perry Farrell, Gibby Haynes and Red Hot Chili Peppers bandmate Flea – encouraged him to release the material he wrote in his spare time during the Blood Sugar Sex Magik sessions. Frusciante began working on final cuts of the songs he had been writing, and producing them at his home. According to Frusciante, each song was completed in one take. During this period, Frusciante's use of heroin became more extreme; he began viewing drugs as the only way to "make sure you stay in touch with beauty instead of letting the ugliness of the world corrupt your soul".

During a 1994 interview, a visibly intoxicated Frusciante noted that he wrote the album in order to create "interesting music", which he felt no longer existed. He felt contemporary artists were not writing material he deemed worth listening to and the mainstream population were settling for mediocrity. Drugs were another significant topic on which Frusciante based Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt. According to Frusciante, he "was stoned for every single note [he] played on the album". He increased his drug use to cope with worsening depression that was caused by leaving the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and his subsequent isolation. Several songs on the album deal with his dislike for the Red Hot Chili Peppers' success, such as the album's eleventh track, "Blood on My Neck From Success".

All the music on the record was written by Frusciante, save for the cover of hardcore punk band Bad Brains' song "Big Takeover". The track was intentionally slowed down and recorded melodically because of a pastime in which Frusciante sang punk songs in different tempos: "It was just something I had been walking around thinking of in my head. Sometimes I'll walk around singing punk rock songs to myself, but as if they were regular songs instead of punk rock songs, you know, slow it down and make a melody instead of just yelling them out. And then the idea occurred me to record it like a Led Zeppelin ballad with mandolins and stuff." River Phoenix, a friend of Frusciante's, contributed guitar and backing vocals to two songs that were intended be included on the record, but were ultimately left off following his death in October.

Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt incorporates Frusciante's avant-garde style of song composition, with his stream-of-consciousness methodology. It features minimal orchestration, and Frusciante's vocals have a "fragile, wispy quality" as described by AllMusic. CMJ New Music Monthly called it "probably the most fucked-up album ever released by someone who had once played in stadiums." Frusciante recorded, mixed, produced and mastered the entire record by himself on a four-track tape, and released it on Rick Rubin's label, American Recordings. Warner Bros., the Red Hot Chili Peppers' label, originally held the rights to the album because of the leaving-artist clause in Frusciante's Red Hot Chili Peppers contract. Because he was living as a recluse, the label gladly handed the rights over to Rubin, who released the album under his label.

Cover art and title
The cover art of Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt is a sepia photograph of Frusciante in drag. According to Toni Oswald, Frusciante's partner at the time of the album's making, this choice was inspired by Rrose Sélavy, the feminine pseudonym of Marcel Duchamp—the French painter and writer whom Oswald and Frusciante both deeply admired. Frusciante devised the name "Niandra LaDes" as his own feminine alter ego. The phrase "Usually Just a T-Shirt" meanwhile derives from a clothes-exchanging ritual that Oswald and Frusciante often took part in when Frusciante was away on tour; after Frusciante asked what Oswald would wear with his clothes, she would reply, "Usually just a t-shirt." The phrase "To Clara" in the lower right refers to Clara Balzary, the first daughter of Flea.

Release, reception, and aftermath
Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt was initially previewed by Billboard magazine, who said that "Chili Peppers fans might be daunted by the album's elusive experimentalism." A representative of American Recordings did not foresee the album as being viable in any mainstream music stores, and some retailers went as far as to ban it from being sold. After the album was released, Frusciante played three small performances, and participated in a few magazine interviews to promote the album, explaining in one interview that people would be able to understand his work only if "their heads are capable of tripping out". At one point shortly after release, Frusciante began searching for a string quartet to play the album with him on tour. The idea was eventually discarded when he could not find a band that "understands why Ringo Starr is such a great drummer, can play Stravinsky, and also smokes pot". The concept of a tour was ultimately abandoned as well, due to Frusciante's diminishing health.

Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt was met with general confusion and a mixed response from fans and critics. David Wild of Rolling Stone wrote: "All in all, [the album is] a mess – but definitely a fascinating, often lovely mess. As one might expect of an album titled Niandra Lades and Usually Just a T-shirt, this is twisted, cool stuff." Marina Zogbi of Entertainment Weekly described Frusciante's guitar play as "hauntingly lovely," and said: "There's a fine line between brilliant and unlistenable, and Frusciante squarely straddles it here." The Boston Herald noted that while the album was "a stark display of Frusciante's acoustic guitar virtuosity" and "eerily beautiful", the singing was "terrible; his high notes will drive the neighborhood dogs into a frenzy".

Retrospective appraisal is generally more positive. In a 2003 review by Rolling Stone, critic Christian Hoard wrote: "[the album] sounds like a string of four-track demos. The first part of the album is slightly more tuneful than the more ambient, experimental second section [...] Mostly what you get are Frusciante's acoustic-guitar scratchings and stream-of-conscious ramblings." Steve Huey of AllMusic, who rated the album four out of five stars, said that "[the album was] an intriguing and unexpected departure from Frusciante's work with the Chili Peppers [and that] the sparse arrangements of the first half help set the stage for the gossamer guitar work later on." He went on to say that Usually Just a T-Shirt (the latter half of the album) contained "pleasant psychedelic instrumentals with plenty of backward-guitar effects". Ned Raggett, also of AllMusic, noted that "there's nothing quite so stunning as [Frusciante's] magnificent remake of Bad Brains' 'The Big Takeover'." Adam Williams of PopMatters said the album "fall[s] somewhere between madness and brilliance". He went on to compare Frusciante to Syd Barrett, and felt it was a "hint at a deeply cerebral artist looking within for inspiration and creativity".

Frusciante's drug addiction worsened as the years progressed. An article published by the Phoenix New Times described him as "a skeleton covered in thin skin". He participated in an interview with Dutch public broadcast station VPRO, the first media appearance he made since leaving the Red Hot Chili Peppers. In the interview Frusciante speaks of the positive effects drugs have had on his mind and proudly admits to being a "junkie". He went on to confess addictions to heroin and crack cocaine, but ultimately described himself as being in the best health of his life. Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt sold 15,000 copies by 1996; two years later Frusciante rehabilitated and rejoined the Red Hot Chili Peppers. In 2017, record label Superior Viaduct reissued Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt on vinyl.

Track listing
All tracks are written by John Frusciante, except "Big Takeover", written by Bad Brains.

Niandra LaDes Usually Just a T-Shirt
 * 1) "As Can Be" – 2:57
 * 2) "My Smile Is a Rifle" – 3:48
 * 3) "Head (Beach Arab)" – 2:05
 * 4) "Big Takeover" – 3:18
 * 5) "Curtains" – 2:30
 * 6) "Running Away into You" – 2:12
 * 7) "Mascara" – 3:40
 * 8) "Been Insane" – 1:41
 * 9) "Skin Blues" – 1:46
 * 10) "Your Pussy's Glued to a Building on Fire" – 3:17
 * 11) "Blood on My Neck from Success" – 3:09
 * 12) "Ten to Butter Blood Voodoo" – 1:59
 * 1) "Untitled #1" – 0:34
 * 2) "Untitled #2" – 4:21
 * 3) "Untitled #3" – 1:50
 * 4) "Untitled #4" – 1:38
 * 5) "Untitled #5" – 1:30
 * 6) "Untitled #6" – 1:29
 * 7) "Untitled #7" – 1:42
 * 8) "Untitled #8" – 7:55
 * 9) "Untitled #9" – 7:04
 * 10) "Untitled #10" – 0:25
 * 11) "Untitled #11" – 1:51
 * 12) "Untitled #12" – 5:27
 * 13) "Untitled #13" – 1:52

Note: Cassette versions of the album include the additional tracks "Ants" as track seven on side one (Niandra LaDes) and "Untitled #0" as track one on side two (Usually Just a T-Shirt).


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Frederick Pabst

Johann Gottlieb Friedrich "Frederick" Pabst (March 28, 1836 – January 1, 1904) was a German-American brewer for whom the Pabst Brewing Company was named.

Early life
Pabst was born on March 28, 1836, in the village of Nikolausrieth, in the Province of Saxony, in the Kingdom of Prussia. Friedrich was the second child of Gottlieb Pabst, a local farmer, and his wife, Johanna Friederike.

In 1848, he emigrated with his parents to the United States, settling first in Milwaukee, and then Chicago. The following year, his mother died in a cholera epidemic. In Chicago, Frederick and his father had to eke out a living. For a while they worked as waiters and busboys. Frederick soon gave this up, however. Because he had enjoyed his voyage to America, he decided to become a cabin boy on a Lake Michigan steamer. By the time he was 21, Pabst had earned his pilot's license, and was captain of one of these vessels. In this capacity, he met Phillip Best, the owner of a small but prosperous brewery founded by his father, Jacob Best, in 1844 in Milwaukee. Pabst married Best's daughter, Maria, on March 25, 1862.

For the next year and a half, Pabst continued to ply the waters of Lake Michigan as a ship's captain, until an accident in December 1863 led to a change in career. While trying to bring his craft into Milwaukee harbor, Pabst's ship ran aground. A short while later, Pabst purchased half of Best's brewing company.

Brewing
In 1864, when Pabst was taken into partnership in his father-in-law's brewery, he began to study the details of the business. After obtaining a thorough mastery of the art of brewing, Pabst turned his attention to extending the market for the beer, and before long, had raised the output of the Best brewery to 100,000 barrels a year. The brewery was eventually converted into a public company and its capital repeatedly increased to cope with the continually increasing trade. He became president of the corporation in 1873. Later, the brewing company's name was changed to the Pabst Brewing Company.

In 1889, Pabst spent $30,000 to take advantage of prime shoreline along Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin's unique location, just north of the city of Milwaukee, by developing a popular lakeshore resort, which he called the Pabst Whitefish Bay Resort.

As many as 10,000 visitors came to the resort on a summer day by horse and buggy, railroad, trolley, or excursion steamer, to enjoy the scenic view, to ride the Ferris wheel, attend daily concerts (double concerts on Sunday), rent row boats, watch outdoor movies, drink Pabst's beer, and dine on fine fare, including five types of whitefish netted daily in the adjoining bay. The resort's popularity faded in 1914 at the start of World War I and the park was closed. In 1915, the land was subdivided into residential lots.

The brewing company's renowned "Blue Ribbon" label was introduced in the 1890s. The beer never actually won a blue ribbon. During some festivals (i.e. World's Fair in Chicago), Pabst placed a blue ribbon around his Best beer (named after founder Phillip Best), so it would stand out among the others. People would start identifying the beer as the Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. Instead of correcting the public, Pabst just wisely renamed it. He trademarked the Blue Ribbon in 1900.

Pabst built a 14-story Pabst Building in downtown Milwaukee and also helped organize the Wisconsin National Bank, in 1893. Pabst purchased the old Nunnemacher Grand Opera House, located opposite the Milwaukee City Hall, in 1890, and turned it into the Das Neue Deutsche Stadt-Theater (The New German City Theater), but it was destroyed in a fire. Pabst ordered it rebuilt at once and the newly named Pabst Theater opened in 1895. It still is in use today.

The Pabst Mansion along Wisconsin Avenue is a well-known Milwaukee tourist attraction and was the Pabst family home from 1892 to 1908.

Personal life
Pabst was married in 1862 and had 10 children. Five survived to adulthood: Elizabeth (von Ernst, 1865-1891), Gustave (1866–1943), Marie (Goodrich, 1868–1947), Frederick, Jr. (1869–1958), and Emma (Nunnemacher, 1871–1943). The Pabsts also adopted Elizabeth's daughter, Elsbeth, after Elizabeth died unexpectedly in 1891.

He had two stock farms, one in Wauwatosa and one in Calhoun for raising Percheron horses. The original stock had been imported by him from France.

Pabst was affiliated with Aurora Masonic Lodge No. 30.

Pabst is buried at Forest Home Cemetery in Milwaukee.

title: Frederick Pabst