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Dragon King

The Dragon King, also known as the Dragon God, is a Chinese water and weather god. He is regarded as the dispenser of rain, commanding over all bodies of water. He is the collective personification of the ancient concept of the lóng in Chinese culture.

There are also the cosmological "Dragon Kings of the Four Seas" (四海龍王; Sihai Longwang).

Besides being a water deity, the Dragon God frequently also serves as a territorial tutelary deity, similarly to Tudigong "Lord of the Earth" and Houtu "Queen of the Earth".

Singular Dragon King
The Dragon King has been regarded as holding dominion over all bodies of water, and the dispenser of rain, in rituals practiced into the modern era in China. One of his epithets is Dragon King of Wells and Springs.

Rainmaking rituals
Dragon processions have been held on the fifth and sixth moon of the lunar calendar all over China, especially on the 13th day of the sixth moon, held to be the Dragon King's birthday, as ritualized supplication to the deity to make rain. In Changli County, Hebei Province a procession of sorts carried an image of the Dragon King in a basket and made circuit around nearby villages, and the participants would put out in front of their house a piece of yellow paper calligraphed with the text: "The position [=tablet] of the Dragon King of the Four Seas 四海龍王之位, Five Lakes, Eight Rivers and Nine Streams", sprinkle it with water using willow withes, and burning incense next to it. This ritual was practiced in North of China into the 20th century.

In the past, there used to be Dragon King miao shrines all over China, for the folk to engage in the worship of dragon kings, villages in farm countries would conduct rites dedicated to the Dragon Kings seeking rain.

Daoist pantheon
Within the Daoist pantheon, the Dragon King is regarded the zoomorphic representation of the yang masculine power of generation. The dragon king is the king of the dragons and he also controls all of the creatures in the sea. The dragon king gets his orders from the Jade Emperor.

Dragon Kings of the Five Regions
Historically there arose a cult of the Five Dragon Kings. The name Wufang longwang (五方龍王, "Dragon Kings of the Five Regions/Directions") is registered in Daoist scripture from the Tang dynasty, found in the Dunhuang caves. Veneration of chthonic dragon god(s) of the five directions still persists today in southern areas, such as Canton and Fujian. It has also been conflated with the cult of Lord Earth, Tugong (Tudigong), and inscriptions on tablets invoke the Wufang wutu longshen (五方五土龍神, "Dragon Spirits of the Five Directions and Five Soils") in rituals current in Southeast Asia (Vietnam).

Description
The Azure Dragon or Blue-Green Dragon (靑龍 Qīnglóng), or Green Dragon (蒼龍 Cānglóng), is the Dragon God of the east, and of the essence of spring. The Red Dragon (赤龍 Chìlóng or 朱龍 Zhūlóng, literally "Cinnabar Dragon", "Vermilion Dragon") is the Dragon God of the south and of the essence of summer. The White Dragon (白龍 Báilóng) is the Dragon God of the west and the essence of autumn. The Yellow Dragon (黃龍 Huánglóng) is the Dragon God of the center, associated with (late) summer. The Black Dragon (黑龍 Hēilóng), also called "Dark Dragon" or "Mysterious Dragon" (玄龍 Xuánlóng), is the Dragon God of the north and the essence of winter.

Broad history
Dragons of the Five Regions/Directions existed in Chinese custom, established by the Former Han period (Cf. §Origins below) The same concept couched in "dragon king" (longwang) terminology was centuries later, the term "dragon king" being imported from India (Sanskrit naga-raja), vis Buddhism, introduced in the 1st century AD during the Later Han.

The five "Dragon Kings" which were correlated with the Five Colors and Five Directions are attested uniquely in one work among Buddhist scriptures (sūtra), called the Foshuo guanding jing (佛說灌頂經; "Consecration Sūtra Expounded by the Buddha" early 4th century). Attributed to Po-Srimitra, it is a pretended translation, or "apocryphal sutra" (post-canonical text), but its influence on later rituals (relating to entombment) is not dismissable.

The dragon king cult was most active around the Sui-Tang dynasty, according to one scholar, but another observes that the cult spread farther afield with the backing of Song dynasty monarchs who built Dragon King Temples (or rather Taoist shrines), and Emperor Huizong of Song (12th century) conferred investiture upon them as local kings. But the dragon king and other spell incantations came to be discouraged in Buddhism within China, because they were based on eclectic (apocryphal) sutras and the emphasis grew for the orthodox sutras, or put another way, the quinary system (based on number 5) was being superseded by the number 8 or number 12 being held more sacred.

During the Tang period, the dragon kings were also regarded as guardians that safeguard homes and pacify tombs, in conjunction with the worship of Lord Earth. Buddhist rainmaking ritual learned Tang dynasty China by

The concept was transmitted to Japan alongside esoteric Buddhism, and also practiced as rites in Onmyōdō during the Heian Period.

Five dragons
The idea of associating the five directions/regions (wufang; 五方) with the five colors is found in Confucian classic text,
 * (Origins)

The Huainanzi (2nd cent. BC) describes the five colored dragons (azure/green, red, white, black, yellow) and their associations (Chapter 4: Terrestrial Forms),  as well as the placement of sacred beasts in the five directions (the Four Symbols beasts, dragon, tiger, bird, tortoise in the four cardinal directions and the yellow dragon.

And the Luxuriant Dew of the Spring and Autumn Annals attributed to Dong Zhongshu (2nd cent. BC) describes the ritual involving five colored dragons.

Consecration Sutra
The apocryphal Foshuo guanding jing (佛說灌頂經; "Consecration Sūtra Expounded by the Buddha" early 4th century, attributed to Po-Srimitra 帛尸梨蜜多羅), which purports to be Buddhist teachings but in fact incorporates elements of Chinese traditional belief, associates five dragon kings with five colored dragons with five directions, as aforementioned.

The text gives the personal names of the kings. To the east is the Blue Dragon Spirit King (青龍神王) named Axiuhe (阿修訶/阿脩訶), with 49 dragon kings under him, with 70 myriad myllion lesser dragons, mountain spirits, and assorted mei 魅 demons as minions. The thrust of this scripture is that in everywhere in every direction, there are the minions causing poisonings and ailments, and their lord the dragon kings must be beseeched in prayer to bring relief. In the south is the Red Dragon Spirit King named Natouhuati (那頭化提), in the west the White, called Helousachati (訶樓薩叉提/訶樓薩扠提), in the north the Black, called Nayetilou (那業提婁) and at center the Yellow, called Duluoboti (闍羅波提), with different numbers subordinate dragon kings, with minion hordes of lesser dragons and other beings. Though connection of poison to rainmaking may not be obvious, it has been suggested that this poison-banishing sutra could have viably been read as a replacement in the execution of the ritual to pray for rain (shōugyōhō, 請雨経法), in Japan. A medieval commentary (Ryūō-kōshiki, copied 1310) has reasoned that since the Great Peacock (Mahāmāyūrī) sūtra mandates one to chant dragon names in order to detoxify, so shall offerings made to dragon lead to "sweet rain".

Divine Incantations Scripture
The wangfang ("five position") dragon kings are also attested in the Taishang dongyuan shenzhou jing (太上洞淵神咒經; "Most High Cavernous Abyss Divine Spells Scripture"), though not explicitly under the collective name of "five position dragon kings", but individually as "Eastern Direction's Blue Emperor Blue Dragon King (東方青帝青龍王)", and so forth. It gives a laundry list of dragon kings by different names, stating that spells to cause rain can be performed by invoking dragon kings.

Ritual process
An ancient procedural instruction for invoking five-colored dragons to conduct rainmaking rites occurs in the Luxuriant Dew of the Spring and Autumn Annals, under its "Seeking Rain" chapter (originally 2nd century B.C.). It prescribes earthenware figurines of greater and lesser dragons of a specific color according to season, namely blue-green, red, yellow, white, black, depending on whether it was spring, summer, late summer, autumn, or winter. And these figures were to be placed upon the alter at the assigned position/direction (east, south, center, west, or north).

This Chinese folk rain ritual later became incorporated into Daoism. The rituals were codified into Daoist scripture or Buddhist sūtras in the post-Later Han period, but Dragon King worship did not come into ascendancy until the Sui-Tang dynasties. The rain rituals in Esoteric Buddhism in the Tang dynasty was actually an adaptation of indigenous Chinese dragon worship and rainmaking beliefs, rather than pure Buddhism.

As a point of illustration, a comparison can be made against Buddhist procedures for rainmaking during the Tang dynasty. The rainmaking tract in the (Book 11, under the chapter for "Rain Prayer Altar Method, qiyu tanfa; 祈雨壇法) prescribes an altar to be built, with mud figures of dragon kings placed on the four sides, and numerous mud-made lesser dragons arranged within and without the altar.

Dragon Kings of the Four Seas
Each one of the four Dragon Kings of the Four Seas (四海龍王 Sìhǎi Lóngwáng) is associated with a body of water corresponding to one of the four cardinal directions and natural boundaries of China: the East Sea (corresponding to the East China Sea), the South Sea (corresponding to the South China Sea), the West Sea (Qinghai Lake), and the North Sea (Lake Baikal).

They appear in the classical novels like The Investiture of the Gods and Journey to the West, where each of them has a proper name, and they share the surname Ao (敖, meaning "playing" or "proud").

Dragon of the Eastern Sea
His proper name is Ao Guang (敖廣 or 敖光), and he is the patron of the East China Sea.

Dragon of the Western Sea
His proper names are Ao Run (敖閏), Ao Jun (敖君) or Ao Ji (敖吉). He is the patron of Qinghai Lake.

Dragon of the Southern Sea
He is the patron of the South China Sea and his proper name is Ao Qin (敖欽).

Dragon of the Northern Sea
His proper names are Ao Shun (敖順) or Ao Ming (敖明), and his body of water is Lake Baikal.

Japan
As already mentioned, Esoteric Buddhists in Japan who initially learned their trade from Tang dynasty China engaged in rainmaking ritual prayers invoking dragon kings under a system known as or shōugyō [no] hō, established in the Shingon sect founded by the priest Kūkai, who learned Buddhism in Tang China. It was first performed by Kūkai in the year 824 at Shinsen'en, according to legend, but the first occasion probably took place historically in the year 875, then a second time in 891. The rain ritual came to be performed regularly.

The shōugyōhō ritual used two mandalas that featured dragon kings. The Great Mandala that was hung up was of a design that centered around Sakyamuni Buddha, surrounded by the, the ten thousand dragon kings, Bodhisattvas (based on the Dayunlun qingyu jing 大雲輪請雨經, "Scripture of [Summoning] Great Clouds and Petitioning for Rain"). The other one was a "spread-out mandala”(shiki mandara 敷曼荼羅) laid flat out on its back, and depicted five dragon kings, which were one-, three-, five-, seven-, and nine-headed (based on the Collected Dhāraṇī Sūtras).

Also, there was the "Five Dragons Festival/ritual" (Goryūsai. 五龍祭) that was performed by onmyōji or yin-yang masters. The oldest mention of this in literature is from Fusō Ryakuki, the entry of Engi 2/902AD, 17th day of the 6th moon. Sometimes, the performance of the rain ritual by Esoteric Buddhists (shōugyōhō) would be followed in succession by the Five Dragons Ritual from the. The Five Dragon rites performed by the onmyōji or yin yang masters had their heyday around the 10–11th centuries. There are mokkan, or inscribed wooden tablets, used in these rites that have been unearthed (e.g., from an 8–10th century site and a 9th-century site).

In Japan, there also developed a legend that the primordial being Banko (Pangu of Chinese myth) sired the Five Dragon Kings, who were invoked in the ritual texts or read in Shinto or Onmyōdō rites, but the five beings later began to be seen less as monsters and more as wise princes.

Worship of the Dragon God
Worship of the Dragon God is celebrated throughout China with sacrifices and processions during the fifth and sixth moons, and especially on the date of his birthday the thirteenth day of the sixth moon. A folk religious movement of associations of good-doing in modern Hebei is primarily devoted to a generic Dragon God whose icon is a tablet with his name inscribed on it, utilized in a ritual known as the "movement of the Dragon Tablet". The Dragon God is traditionally venerated with dragon boat racing.

In coastal regions of China, Korea, Vietnam, traditional legends and worshipping of whales (whale gods) have been referred to Dragon Kings after the arrival of Buddhism.

Buddhism
Some Buddhist traditions describe a figure named Duo-luo-shi-qi or Talasikhin as a Dragon King who lives in a palace located in a pond near the legendary kingdom of Ketumati. It is said that during midnight he used to drizzle in this pond to cleanse himself of dust.

title: Dragon King


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Talk:Dragon King

In the bottum post thingy magig.....
I posted about the dragon worlds king, and patriarcs. Maybe thats what you ment=== —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.132.224 (talk) 01:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal names
I tried to find their personal names, but they all seem to only have royal titles. They're probably like the Jade Emperor, whose name, if even existing, is very very obscure, and worshippers always call them, out of convention and/or respect, their titles. --Menchi 13:59 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * Meng Zhang (孟章) is the human name Taoism assingns to the Azure Dragon according to the Four Auspicious Beasts (Four Symbols) article, but I've never seen this info myself.

 * Ao Guang is given as the name of the Azure Dragon King of the Eastern Sea, which I vaguely recall from Fengshen Yanyi.

 * In Journey to the West they are named Aoguang (East) Aoguang (S), Aoguang (N), Aorun (W).
 * Or in Wade-Giles repreesentation, Ao-kuang (E) Aoqin (S), Aoshun (N), Ao-jun (W). --Kiyoweap (talk) 05:12, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

What is this doing in the main article?
--203.213.58.32 07:32, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Their origin.
I think we should add some information about the origin of dragon kings. In fact the idea of dragon kings come from Buddhism. The dragon kings are a mixture of Chinese dragons and the naga kings. Can anyone add this to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.114.254 (talk) 00:18, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The dragons king's some kind of mixture between the Chinese dragon and the Indian naga king. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shinbu3 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

 * There are in Buddhism, of which Sāgara (Dragon King) is associated with the ocean.

 * The Azure Dragon of the East dates to Former Han period. The amount of scholarship that backs the Buddhist dragon kings as origins of Azure Dragon seems to be underwhelming, AFAICT. So this line of pursuing "origins" need not be insisted upon, IMO. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:40, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Jagrat Kumar (Purwa)
My name is jagrat. I am 15 years old are live in india state u.p. distt unnao tehsil Purwa — Preceding unsigned comment added by JAGRAT (talk • contribs) 07:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 25 August 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved — Amakuru (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Dragon King → Longshen – Use of the untranslated Chinese pinyin term. This would be better as "Longshen" (Dragon God) is more general than "Longwang" (Dragon King), in other words "Longshen" includes the Dragon Kings as well as other Dragon Gods. Keep it untranslated as Chinese characters/words cover entire semantic fields and don't have univocal translation in Western languages (i.e. in our case "shen" can be translated as "god", "spirit", "soul", "numen", "intelligence", etc.). – Aethelwolf Emsworth (talk) 07:43, 25 August 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. No such user (talk) 08:33, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:52, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

 * It's unclear whether WP:ENGLISH or WP:PINYIN should apply here. Worthy of a discussion? If there's no other notable "Longshen", there's no need for a parenthesized dab. — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 15:07, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose, even if this is an imprecise translation, "Dragon King" still appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME.--Prisencolin (talk) 01:56, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Overmyer, the article's main source, uses "Dragon King." (Fourteen index listings are given on page 217.) Let's not play translator. The light bringer (talk) 07:11, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Dragon King of the West Sea which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:16, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Sea dragon king
Is Sea dragons Real? In japan There is somebody.. Aka rujin he is the Sea Dragon King Of Snakes And Dragons as you can tell by his looks. Snakes were consdired snakes death❤🔥 He is the 8th Sea king of dragons and Snakes Thats all for today! 2600:387:C:6C17:0:0:0:7 (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Five Regions dragons separate from Four Seas dragons
Tom, K. S. (1989), p. 55 which is cited only talks about the five regions (4 directions and center), nothing about the seas: "An azure or blue dragon symbolized the east and was identified with spring. Red or yellow dragons represented the south and summer. A white dragon was associated with the west and autumn, while a black dragon stood for the north and winter. "

Since source doesn't say so, equating the dragon of the east in this schema with the dragon of the east sea, or to Ao Guang from the novel constitutes WP:SYNTH. Please stick to the source.--Kiyoweap (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Dragon King


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Operation Storax

Operation Storax was a series of 47 nuclear tests conducted by the United States in 1962–1963 at the Nevada Test Site. These tests followed the Operation Fishbowl series and preceded the Operation Roller Coaster series.

British tests
Some accounts include the second British nuclear weapons test at the Nevada Test Site, shot Tendrac, as part of Storax. See British nuclear testing in the United States for more details.

title: Operation Storax


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Pierre Rode

Jacques Pierre Joseph Rode (16 February 1774 – 25 November 1830) was a French violinist and composer.

Life and career
Born in Bordeaux, Aquitaine, France, Pierre Rode traveled in 1787 to Paris and soon became a favourite pupil of the great Giovanni Battista Viotti, who found the boy so talented that he charged him no fee for the lessons. Rode inherited his teacher's style, to which he added more mildness and a more refined tone. It is also recorded that he made extensive use of portamento. He collaborated with Baillot and Kreutzer on the official Violin Method of the Conservatoire de Paris, published in 1802.

Rode served as violin soloist to Napoleon and toured extensively in the Netherlands, Germany, England and Spain, staying with François-Adrien Boieldieu in Saint Petersburg from 1804 until 1809, and later spending much time in Moscow.

When he returned to Paris, he found that the public no longer responded with much enthusiasm to his playing. Spohr, who heard him both before and after his Russian sojourn, wrote that Rode's playing had become “cold and full of mannerism”. However, according to some sources, he suffered from a lymphatic infection caused by streptococcus bacteria that affected his right arm, reducing his ability to bow with any force or rapidity.

Ludwig van Beethoven wrote his last violin sonata (Op. 96) for Rode when the violinist was visiting Vienna. He also performed chamber music, but the backbone of his repertoire was formed by Viotti's concertos, which served as models for his own concertos. These, as well as the 24 Caprices in all the major and minor keys, were written from 1814 to 1819 when he lived in Berlin.

In 1828 Rode made a last attempt at a public concert in Paris. It was such a fiasco that it was widely believed (as reported by Schuenemana, in citation above) that it hastened his death, on 25 November 1830 at Château de Bourbon near Damazan, Lot-et-Garonne, in his native Aquitaine.

Compositions
In all, Pierre Rode composed 13 violin concertos and many other works for violin, including at least four Quatuors brillants for violin and string trio. Although Rode's violin concertos have some significance in the development of the Romantic concerto, they are nowadays rarely performed. His major enduring contribution to the literature are his 24 Caprices, which are a standard part of the repertoire for advanced study of the violin. He also had a major influence on younger violinists, such as Louis Spohr, who adopted his style and developed it further.

French bibliography

 * Joann Élart, "Circulation des quatre symphonies oeuvre VII de Johann Franz Xaver Sterkel de l'Allemagne à Rouen : un itinéraire singulier du goût musical entre 1770 et 1825", Studien zu den deutsch-französischen Musikbeziehungen im 18. und 19. Jahrhundert, bericht über die erste gemeinsame Jahrestagung der Gesellschaft für Musikforschung und der Société française de musicologie Saarbrücken 1999 (Hildesheim : Georg Olms Verlag, 2002), pp. 266–281.
 * Joann Élart and Patrick Taïeb, "La Complainte du Troubadour de Pierre-Jean Garat (1762–1823)", Les Orages, No. 2, L'imaginaire du héros (Besançon : Apocope, May 2003), pp. 137–168.
 * Joann Élart, "La mobilité des musiciens et des répertoires : Punto, Garat et Rode aux concerts du Musée", Le Musée de Bordeaux et la musique 1783–1793, ed. Patrick Taïeb, Natalie Morel-Borotra and Jean Gribenski (Rouen : PURH, 2005), pp. 157–173.
 * Joann Élart, "Les origines du concert public à Rouen à la fin de l'Ancien Régime", Revue de musicologie, No. 93/1 (2007), pp. 53–73.

title: Pierre Rode


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Talk:Flight attendant

Stewardess vs Flight attendant
Isn't "stewardess" British English and "flight attendant" American? --Menchi 14:33 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

They used to be called stewardesses in America. In the '70s it was decided to adopt a gender-neutral term and they became "flight attendants", but many Americans who learned the term before that time still call them stewardesses. I've never heard anyone call a male in that line of work a steward, although certainly that term has long been used for their counterparts aboard passenger ships. What they call them in Britain I cannot say. Michael Hardy 00:17, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

No, it's not BE vs AE, although it seems the term has been dying a slower death in Britain. It was still oficially used by British Airways until about 10 years ago (insiders please correct me), and for example Virgin Trains introduced "stewardess service" in 1998 or so. It seems there are still a lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic who don't think (or realize, if you prefer) the term is sexist or obsolete. --ProhibitOnions 04:51, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

I think they also use Cabin Crew. The Missing Piece 11:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There is nothing "sexist" about using the term. People need to get an education and understand that just because a word denotes gender it is not sexist - that's just being childish and silly. --IceHunter (talk) 19:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You're correct, but not politically correct. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 17:16, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

 * For safety reasons and just for clarity some industry commentators are returning to using the term "Steward/Stewardess" because it is more accurate. "Flight attendant" sounds too much like somebody who has some technical expertise in the actual FLIGHT OPERATIONS of the aircraft which should never be applied to someone who is basically serving as a cabin hostess. "Cabin Attendant" would be an acceptable term, but has been mostly rejected because it reminds people of 'cabin boy' on a ship.... which was basically a steward who had no function in the actual sailing or operation of the vessel. Sadly some hostesses are very offended by the use of 'stewardess' and have likened it to a pejorative for a person who's job significantly involves serving beverages and magazines along with keeping the aircraft cabin tidy and organized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.150.249.19 (talk) 20:46, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Update 2023: The word is still not sexist. 2A02:908:DF51:ABA0:4C7D:98EA:AE4F:4E44 (talk) 14:23, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

relation to biology
what's the relation of biology to a flight attendant? or how's the knowledge about biology applied in this kind of job?

Question about NLRB ruling
Somebody asked this inline in the article: "When did that ruling happen?" Samaritan 06:46, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm Kristin, fly me?
OK, what airline was it? I recall the tagline, too; unless you can name the line, perhaps it should be removed... Trekphiler 12:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC) The Airline was National Airlines, which was later bought/merged into Pan Am.

Answer
National Airlines--24.234.90.226 (talk) 21:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Coining of word "stewardess"
I'm afraid the word "stewardess" predates flight by many years. Female stewards aboard liners were called stewardesses before Ellen Church was born. The RMS Titanic had at least twenty stewardesses who were called such. They're even referred to as such in Archibald Gracie's 1912 book "The Truth about the Titanic". -- Charlene 18:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Time of training
I have a concern about the Training information... The text says it takes about 6 weeks. I believe it is in the US, but the time it takes depends a lot on the country we are.

I am a flight attendant myself, and where I live (Brazil), we must accomplish a 4 months course, pass a written exam, to start sending resumés. After hired, we have a 2 month training in the company. So in here it is 6 months training. (Not counting the training inflight)

I think we should change the text to be more "world wide correct". Marlon Braga 15:40, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

there is no standard for how long the training needs to be in the us. just what information needs to be taught and how many hours need to be spent. for southwest, i trained for 4 weeks and 2 days. its longer for different airlines

No more stewardesses?
The term hasn't been commonly used since the 1960s, thanks to numerous legal battles with taking flight attendants seriously. It is an insulting, belitting term. Get with a plan, doofus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.100.59.249 (talk) 04:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

The article says flight attendants are 'formerly known as stewardesses', not 'also known as'. Is the word 'stewardess' no longer English then? Surely people use it a lot, so shouldn't it be 'also known as'? Is this political correctness? In that case some reason why 'stewardess' should not be used may follow. But as it stands it isn't correct, is it? DirkvdM 06:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Because up to half of flight attendants (depending on airline) aren't stewardesses. They're men. Now if you want to start a hew and cry, try calling a man by a woman's job description - generally the same men who scream about how "rampantly politically correct" gender-neutral terms like "firefighter" and "letter carrier" are also cringe in horror at the idea of calling a male flight attendant a "stewardess". Nobody had better say it's insulting to call a woman by a man's title, but by God it's clearly and undeniably insulting to call a man by a woman's title.

 * For some reason, male flight attendants have never been called stewards. So why have a gender-neutral term (flight attendant) for the men and a gender-specific one (stewardesses) for the women? Sounds demeaning to me. -- Charlene 09:03, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

 * For some reason, male flight attendants have never been called stewards.

 * That's baloney. In fact, international flight crews, in parallel with ship crews, where the terms originated, very often have a single individual listed as "Steward", which would be roughly comparable to the term "Head Flight Attendant" in an operation that doesn't use the word "Steward".--chris.lawson 05:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

You don't know what you are talking about. "Steward" has NEVER been used for "flight attendant" because few or no men WERE flight attendants until the 1970s. It was considered a female-dominated field. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.100.59.249 (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

 * I've always used "steward" for men and "air hostess" for women. Is this common usage or not? --81.145.242.7 16:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Steward was a common name for the job in the UK. To give an example of the situation in some UK airlines now, British Airways employs cabin staff under the general title "cabin crew", with ranks such as "main crew", "assistant purser", "purser" and "cabin services director". In EasyJet, it's "cabin crew" and "senior cabin crew". With Virgin Atlantic, it's "cabin crew", "senior cabin crew", "cabin service supervisor" and "flight service manager". Wexcan (talk) 19:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

As a former "Stewardess" and "Stewardess Instructor" for a major airline, I can definitively say that when men were originally hired for inflight service on domestic (contiguous USA) routes in the early 1970's they were called "Stewards"....I know this because I personally trained the first domestic "Stewards" for one of the three major airlines. The change to "Flight Attendant" actually had nothing to do with any politically correct issues, but rather for economy in speaking and writing about the inflight crew (i.e. "flight attendants" vs. "stewardesses and Stewards"). I will continue to address other issues regarding this topic as my time permits. 98.217.252.93 (talk) 03:17, 2 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.252.93 (talk) 03:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't say the use of 'steward' and 'stewardesses' is "historical". While the terms have been overtaken by 'flight attendant', they are still used quite often. 'Air host(ess)' is pretty rare today, as far as now, but I still hear 'stewardess' regularly. People probably never said steward because we started moving to 'flight attendant' at the same time that male flight attendants started becoming part of the norm. Chris3145 (talk) 06:11, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

"Steward" is a term that has NEVER been used for flight attendants. That term was strictly used for passenger ship travel and train travel. That is because very, very few men entered the flight attendant field until the 1970s. Many of us who read Wikipedia were around then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.100.59.249 (talk) 04:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Why I removed the 9/11 attendants
I removed the two flight attendants who were on duty during 9/11 because they didn't do anything notable and just happened to be on the unlucky flights.The Little Internet Kitty 00:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Waiters/Waitresses or emergency workers
The article seems to imply that the hospitality role of cabin crew is secondary to their emergency role, which seems the wrong way round to me. Petecarney 23:00, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Maybe a bit late with the reaction, but you are indeed wrong, if you look at the break down of the training, in my case with Emirates, of the seven weeks of training, only 1 week is spend on service, and is as last.. The biggest part of the training consists of SEP: Safety and Emergency Procedures, and GMT: Group Medical Training. Travellin (talk) 14:41, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

You would be wrong, safety is always our #1 priority, even if you see the customer service role more often. In the US the FAA requires flight attendant for safety reasons only. 72.198.110.131 20:30, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Offensiveness/POV of "Stewardess"
Something that has not been addressed in this article is that the term "flight attendant" was coined not only to apply to male flight attendants, but also because many female flight attendants found the term "stewardess" to be reminiscent of the era when discrimination based on physical attractiveness ruled airline hiring policies. As a result, many female flight attendants today find this term demeaning and offensive. I don't know what support there is for this, but I know many people in the industry who have this view. I didn't include it because from me, it would be original research, but someone should track this down. OcciMoron 21:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Looks like a good start: . Also claims Church was also a certified pilot, who as a woman had of course no chance of ever becoming a commercial pilot. --Paul Pieniezny 15:48, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Pity those women couldn't have gotten some psychiatric help instead. We still use it here, and there is NOTHING pejorative about this term. Not to adults anyway. --IceHunter (talk) 19:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The change to "Flight Attendant" actually had nothing to do with any politically correct issues, but rather for economy in speaking and writing about the inflight crew (i.e. "flight attendants" vs. "stewardesses and Stewards"). I will continue to address other issues regarding this topic as my time permits. 98.217.252.93 (talk) 03:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.252.93 (talk) 03:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

POV
This article reads like an ad.

"employed by airlines to ensure the safety and comfort of the passengers aboard commercial flights as well as on select business jet aircraft"

"They are often tasked with the secondary function of seeing to the care and comfort of the passengers, insofar as this does not interfere with their safety responsibilities. They are often perceived by the flying public as waiting staff or servants because there is not a full understanding of the career, the majority of their regular and rare duties are safety related and are the priority above customer service."

"Prior to landing all loose items, trays and garbage must be collected and secured along with service and galley equipment. All hot liquids must be disposed of. A final crosscheck must then be completed prior to landing. They must remain aware as the majority of mechanical emergencies occur during takeoff and landing. Upon landing, flight attendants must remain stationed at exits and monitor the airplane and cabin as passengers disembark the plane. They also assist any special needs passengers and small children off the airplane and escort children, while following the proper paperwork and ID process to escort them to the designated person picking them up."

"They then must do a safety demonstration or monitor passengers as they watch a safety video demonstrating the safety features of the aircraft. They then must "secure the cabin" ensuring tray tables are stowed, seats are in their upright positions, armrests down and carry ons stowed correctly and seatbelts fastened prior to takeoff."

"The main and always primary duty of a flight attendant is for safety"

etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.153.21.97 (talk) 14:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Just because an article dosen't follow your POV doesn't mean it's not NPOV.--Ipatrol (talk) 22:05, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

How many?
How many flight attendants are needed according to safety regulations, depending on number of passengers? Someone could write that in the article. --217.209.224.39 (talk) 11:17, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

 * ANSWER:In the US the minimum crew required is 1 flight attendant for every 50 seats on an aircraft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.108.193.161 (talk) 17:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

What if one flight attendant can't fly, because of illness/accident, and no replacement available, so there is a lack of flight attendants? Are some passengers denied boarding? Once I was denied boarding because of a problem with one emergency exit, which required reducing the number of passengers. --BIL (talk) 10:22, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

 * The article now reads "For planes with up to 19 passenger seats, no flight attendant is needed. For larger planes, one flight attendant per 50 passenger seats is needed." - what about planes with more than 19 but fewer than 50 seats?  109.158.226.191 (talk) 22:40, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Note: I see that the FAA source given as a reference is over 11 years old, but says it was "being updated" six years ago? Perhaps not the best. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:50, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

How do I put in a link to this article?
I'd like to put in a reference, link or comment about this article, which describes the actions of the Flight Attendants in a catastrophic cabin fire.

http://www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_feb89.pdf

I think it would be a good addition to the Wiki article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.33.165.66 (talk) 11:39, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Question about flight attendants
Is it really true that disobeying a flight attendant is a Federal Offense? I got that from the Monk TV series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.234.149 (talk) 12:42, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/11/what-happens-if-you-disobey-a-flight-attendant.html 155.213.224.59 (talk) 17:20, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Debate on the actual first VERIFIED Black flight attendant/stewardess
According to this entry, a woman named Veronica Genereux is listed as the first Black American stewardess. However, there appears to be no corroborating information anyplace else proving that she was.

However, there are several references to a woman named Ruth Carol Taylor. According to the book "Femininity in Flight" she was the first VERIFIED and documented Black woman to be a flight attendant. http://femininityinflight.com/laborhistory.html#racial She worked for Mohawk Airline in 1958. Her story was covered by Time Magazine http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,868136,00.html as well as JET Magazine http://www.flickr.com/photos/vieilles_annonces/3786629024/. She is also mentioned on the San Diego Air and Space Museum website as being the first. http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/exhibits/african_american_exhibit/women-at-the-forefront.php There is even a Wikipedia entry about her and she is mentioned at the wikipedia entry for Mohawk airlines, so why isn't she credited on this page as the first Black woman F/A, when there is overwhelming verifiable evidence that shows she was? 15.251.169.70 (talk) 22:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

________________________________________________________________________________________

The forementioned paragraph lacks legitimate sources to verify that Ruth Carol Taylor as the first Black American stewardess. A more appropriate claim would be the first Black American stewardess hired by Trans-Word Airlines through Mohawk Airlines. In plain English, she was the first Black American stewardess hired by an American company. Even the image provided as evidence fails to provide its source. On a personal account with Veronica Genereux, she stated she is the first Black American stewardess. In addition, the other links provided no longer exist or not found. There is no overwhelming verifiable evidence that Ruth Carol Taylor as the first Black American stewardess. However, based on the information provided above, it could mean she was the first black American stewardess hired by an American airline.

Several sources, though questionably verifiable indicate Veronic Genereux as the first Black American stewardess.

Sources: http://stewardess.weebly.com/ http://www.aviationexplorer.com/Vintage_Stewardess_Pictures.html https://nairobiclub.com/2022/08/08/airline-attendants-are-employed-in-changes-hence/ https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/116917

Popular Culture
in popular culture you mentioned a number of ficinal flight As but you left off one important one

in the 1968 ABC series "Land of the Giants" Betty Hamilton was the stewardess for the marooned Suborbital flight 612  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.106.228.194 (talk) 04:10, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Really, Betty Hamilton? Could we possibly add staunch capitalist Mr Branson? Are they any copyright-free images? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:26, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Blatant advertising (lead photo)
The first photo in this article is just blatant advertising - a promotional shot that links to an airline's Flickr page. It needs to be replaced by something neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.100.249.213 (talk) 07:31, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

 * The Commons source says: "This image was originally posted to Flickr. Its license was verified as "cc-by-sa-2.0" by the UploadWizard Extension at the time it was transferred to Commons." So there appears to be no problem with copyright. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:39, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Um, can someone double check this? Those photos look a wee bit too professional.Two kinds of pork (talk) 09:50, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

 * If I was the PR department/agent for the airline concernd, I'd be happy to load such an image at flickr as copyright free and see it used in a Wikipedia article. And the more "professional" the better, I think? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:59, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

 * I've almost no experience with how image copyright is established for use on Wikipedia. What's to prevent someone from taking a copyrighted image, uploading it to Flickr using a CC license as if the image belonged to them in the first place?Two kinds of pork (talk) 09:45, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm also not very experienced, alas. But I was recently told at Commons OTRS that I could not use a photograph of someone that appeared on his own flickr page, tagged with an open CC license, and with email permission from that same person, because permission had not been explicitly given by the photographer who was deemed to be the actual copyright holder. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:51, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Breech Academy
Qualifications -> Training "... however during the fare wars..." Huh? What 'fare wars'? Something either needs linked here, or this better explained, or this line, or entire portion removed. Even a citation to a remote site? Let's not talk within our own limited frame of thinking - this is Wikipedia. Much of this article is of very poor quality. We can't be having personal chat within production articles. Trep26 (talk) 06:38, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Ignoring male attendants and promoting female attendants
This article is highly sexist and anti-men. All the photographs are of female attendants. It should show photographs of male attendants in an equal numbers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.30.213 (talk) 16:23, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * To say this article is is a bit far-fetched, but you're right, the article does seem to perpetuate traditional gender roles needlessly. ItsPugle (please use  on reply) 12:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

First stewardess
It seems the very first stewardess took her duty before 1930. The French stewardess Jeanne Fontaine has been hired as a stewardess, as early as 1921, by the "Compagnie Aérienne Française". She recalls some highlights of her career, in a video documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCXzoz1vk_w), was a business woman and a great character. She has been busy aboard the french Farman F60 "Goliath", considered as the first french commercial passenger plane (previously a WW1 bomber). One of her great granddaughters is today a stewardess as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.39.118.220 (talk) 10:28, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 11 external links on Flight attendant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.genders.org/g45/g45_tiemeyer.html
 * Added tag to https://careers.airnz.co.nz/customers/flight_attendants
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140307184959/http://www.garuda-indonesia.com/id/en/garuda-indonesia-experience/service-concept/sight.page to http://www.garuda-indonesia.com/id/en/garuda-indonesia-experience/service-concept/sight.page
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060822140626/http://casa.gov.au/fsa/2005/aug/44-47.pdf to http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/2005/aug/44-47.pdf
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070615113909/http://home3.inet.tele.dk/stefan-g/STEFANBOG.pdf to http://home3.inet.tele.dk/stefan-g/STEFANBOG.pdf
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Legalese
A sentence like "The EEOC ruled that sex was not a bona fide occupational requirement to be a flight attendant." is very difficult to comprehend. Legalese should be avoided. Also the section is of limited interest for audiences outside the US. --Rebentisch (talk) 15:20, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Would you like to suggest an improvement? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Female flight attendant of Air Dolomiti.jpg

title: Talk:Flight attendant


text:
Rosalind Chao

Rosalind Chao (born September 23, 1957) is an American actress, best known for playing Soon-Lee Klinger in the mid-1980s CBS show AfterMASH, Rose Hsu Jordan in the 1993 movie The Joy Luck Club, the recurring character Keiko O'Brien on Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in the 1990s, and Dr. Kim on The O.C. in 2003. She also played Hua Li, Mulan's mother, in the live-action 2020 remake of Mulan. In 2024 she starred as Ye Wenjie in the Netflix production of 3 Body Problem.

Early life and education
Rosalind Chao was born in Los Angeles, California, and raised in Anaheim. Her parents were performers with the Peking opera before they relocated to Anaheim, where they ran a successful pancake restaurant, Chao's Chinese and American Restaurant, across the street from Disneyland. Chao worked there from an early age.

She attended Pomona College in Claremont, California, and then the University of Southern California, where she earned a degree in broadcast journalism in 1978. She worked at Disneyland as an international tour guide, and contemplated pursuing journalism as a career.

Career
Chao's parents were instrumental in her decision to pursue acting. She began acting at the age of five, in the California-based Peking opera traveling company with which her parents were involved. During the summer, they sent her to Taiwan for further acting study and experience.

As a child, she played the daughter of a laundry owner (played by James Hong) on a 1970 episode of Here's Lucy, "Lucy the Laundress".

Deciding not to pursue acting, Chao enrolled in the communications department at the University of Southern California where she earned her degree in journalism. However, after a year as a radio newswriting intern at the CBS-owned Hollywood radio station KNX, she returned to acting.

Chao's breakthrough role was that of Soon-Lee, a South Korean refugee, in the final episodes of the TV series M*A*S*H. Soon-Lee married longtime starring character Maxwell Klinger (Jamie Farr) in the series finale "Goodbye, Farewell and Amen", which aired on February 28, 1983, and was the most-watched U.S. sitcom television episode of all time as of 2021. Chao repeated the role in the M*A*S*H sequel, 1983's AfterMASH, her first role billed at co-star status.

Chao played Japanese exo-botanist Keiko O'Brien on the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. In 2010, a preliminary casting memo for The Next Generation from 1987 was published, revealing that Chao was originally considered for the part of Enterprise security chief Tasha Yar.

In August 2018, Chao was cast as Mulan's mother in the 2020 live-action retelling of Mulan. In 2019, she was invited to join the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, citing her contributions to the critically acclaimed films The Joy Luck Club and I Am Sam.

Personal life
Chao met her husband Simon Templeman while they were working in theatre at the Mark Taper Forum. They have a son and a daughter.

title: Rosalind Chao


text:
Talk:Rosalind Chao

References consulted
Although she has over 5000 webpages, I found only one two-paragraph bio of her in Chinese (Simplified) (page now gone, I used cache) and one good data list in English.

Birthyear: According to the data list, she was born in 1964/1956/1959. Nobody knows for sure. I guess I could fan-mail her, but I had bad experiences with fan mails before, with they deflected back at me with court restraining orders. No, they just didn't get reply, at all. Still like them anyway, with a fine touch of hate! *joke* --Menchi 14:48 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Rosalind Chao graduated from Pomona College in 1978. She was therefore probably born in 1956, as were all the other members of that graduating class. (of which I was a member) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.241.174.129 (talk • contribs) 19:46, 7 October 2005

California birth records list a Rosalind C. Chao born in Los Angeles County 23 Sep 1957. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Questors (talk • contribs) 06:59, 29 December 2005
 * Are these available online anywhere, so the information can be verified? Angr (talk • contribs) 22:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Clearly she could not have graduated from college at age 14 so clearly the 1964 date (and indeed any date from the 1960s) is not possible. And if she was a genius who could graduate from college as a child the fan publications would have made a big deal about it. Thus the main article is factually incorrect. It seems likely it is in the mid-1950s with 1956 or 1957 being the most likely assuming four years of college immediately after an on-schedule high school graduation. MichaelSH 01:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Did she actually graduate from Pomona College? In an interview she said she transferred to USC from Pomona. I don't think she graduated from either college. The 1957 birth year cited by California Birth Records is by far the most accurate source. How about ahigh school yearbook? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annavronsky (talk • contribs) 02:12, 8 November 2006

Uncited Source
Removed and changed "Chao plays one of the eight main characters in The Joy Luck Club. However, her favourite role is a minor one in What Dreams May Come, where she played flight attendant Leona, the physical manifestation of the protagonist's dead daughter." It has no source and should noe be there till something is added —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omglazers (talk • contribs) 16:12, 23 July 2006

Reconstitution
As a WP:BLP, I culled the article of all unverified information. I struck everything unreferenced and rebuilt it with 100% referencing. The prior version is here for anybody interested in going back to try and reference any of the information that had been there. —  pd_THOR  undefined | 05:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

added an unsourced claim of notoriety for Chao's portrayal of Keiko O'Brien on Star Trek. While this was a frequently recurring role for Chao, none of the pre-existing reliable sources makes these claims, and the ip user provided none. As such, for the time being, I have removed it. —  pd_THOR  undefined | 00:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Star Trek
On 2008-02-12, added to the lede specific Chinese ancestry and specification of children, neither of which were supported by the references standing. I've reverted that section as unsupported. I further removed the specification of her marriage as I don't wish to debate the noteworthiness of other people in this article, nor does it provide any more information than the infobox currently does. Same user also added a separate specific section to detail Chao's Star Trek acting in more detail, talking about the character and her appearances. I tried to re-write this several times to make it significant, and not just a prosed restating of her following filmography section, but couldn't manage. Without delving into plot material (which isn't particular to the actress, and unnecessary) this section would be effectively: "played on Star Trek for 27 appearances through 1999". I tried with: "Chao regularly portrayed the Japanese exo-botanist Keiko O'Brien (née Ishikawa) on both Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) with eight appearances in the former and 19 in the latter before DS9 ' s end in 1999." and will leave it at this until I can do more research into Star Trek materials for something other than plot to add. A question to anyone who may read this, I de-linked Here's Lucy, Anna and the King, M*A*S*H, and AfterMASH in the filmography because they were already linked in the prosed sections above. When I did the same with the Star Trek series, the filmography really started to look pocked. I know we're discouraged from superfluously double-linking in an article, but for consistency's sake should the entirety of the filmography be wiki-linked? —  pd_THOR  undefined | 06:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Mods
If her parents ran a "Chinese-American" restaurant, then it logically follows that she's of Chinese descent. I've replaced a modified version of the Simon line, removing the "noted" term. I agree with your editing down of the ST section; looking back, I did go a tad overboard. Also, there is no article for "newswriting", so linking it accomplishes nothing but red text.DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC (talk) 16:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Lots of people run "Chinese" restaurants w/o being Chinese, I know for a fact that over half of them in the Puget Sound area were in fact Koreans; I say it should go without a proper citation, especially per the vehemence of WP:BLP. Whereas the "Asian ancestry" is sourced to her Yahoo! biography. I didn't disagree with the change from newswriter to newswriting, because the verb will be the ultimate article as opposed to the noun; however Red links says: "Good red links help Wikipedia — they encourage new contributors in useful directions, and remind us that Wikipedia is far from finished." and that "Removal of red links for nonexistent topics should not be done without careful consideration of their importance or relevance."  I'm sure that newswriting is a relevant topic for an encyclopedic article, so I would rather replace the wikilink than have it removed.  Your thoughts? And lastly, we don't have any reliable sources for Ms. Chao having two children; her Yahoo! biography states her husband and that after "having a child" she "de-emphasized her own performing career", but nothing about a second child.  So we can either state what we can cite, the marriage and one child, or we can eschew it altogether for now (perhaps commenting it?) until we have a cite for both children? I'm sure that in amongst all the "Nitpicker's Guide to Star Trek", and "Behind the show" books, and especially the "companion guides to Star Trek" we can find more heady Star Trek-specific information to add to her bio here.  Unfortunately, I stopped reading those a long time ago, so maybe this weekend I'll look again at my local libraries and see what I can scrounge up.  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 03:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Thor, as to your points:

 * - If nothing else, "Chao" is a Chinese surname.
 * - I agree with the redlink; it's only an aesthetic objection when I really think about it. That and the fact that it's very rarely that I've ever seen a redlink lead to a new article(but perhaps that speaks more to my taste in pages than peoples contributions).
 * - I'll cut it down just to married until/unless more data is forthcoming. I get the feeling they try to keep their kids out of the spotlight, which I applaud.
 * - I may rework the ST part eventually, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. Onward!  DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC (talk) 13:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * It may traditionally be a Chinese surname (Zhao (surname)), but we can't make those assumptions under the policy of no original research; I'm gonna revert, but will keep looking for a place to source it. For newswriting, I'll replace the redlink and maybe look into starting that article myself. ;^)  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 15:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, Chinese restaurants aren't always run by ethnic Chinese. Beijing Opera (Peking Opera), however, would be dificult to get into without a Chinese background and most Chaos are ethnic Chinese. I know many people from Vietnam that never learned everyday Vietnamese until leaving the country, having spent their entire Vietnamese lives speaking Chinese. Their rudimentary Vietnamese was easier to develop in mature age than the majority population's language, English. These people keep up with traditional Chinese music, language, and culture, as opposed to Vietnamese. So, despite marks of being Vietnamese on their registry papers in AU or US, they are ethnic Chinese. Either way, just leaving Asian American is insufficient. Many Desis and Britons, amongst others (especially in the Commonwealth), refer to Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Maldives, the British Indian Ocean Territory, and the Sino-Tibetan state, Bhutan (South Asia) when they say Asian. If you changed it to Eastern Asian, I would understand; but Asian's just not specific enough. I think the evidence is sufficient to say she's ethnic Chinese or Chinese American, even if by some off-chance, she's also Vietnamese American, Korean American, Mongolian American, Japanese American, Filipino American, Singaporean American, Malaysian American, Indonesian American, or Bruneian American. Among the latter five (Southeast Asia), she would most likely be considered overseas Chinese, anyway. Labelling people into ethnicities is unnecessary, but people with ties to a certain ethnic group feel sentimental or proud when they see the success of members of that group. That's why I'm going to boldly put a Chinese American category tag at the bottom. Feel free to RV. :)--Thecurran (talk) 06:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't disagree with you in the least, but everything you know and understand (along with everything I know and understand, and everything knows and understands) is not reliable, and is effectively original research.  I believe she's Chinese, and I continue to be on the lookout for sourcing that state such, but without them the only thing we can include is what we can verify via reliable sourcing.  Please realize, I believe you and verily appreciate your help, but we can't make those judgment calls.  If you know any sourcing that specifically refers to her as Chinese (I'm getting my hands on some Star Trek resources, myself), please either add it yourself and update accordingly, or let us know here and we'll make it happen for you (although you seem versed enough).  Thanks, but not yet!  Cheers! I may in fact have a lead on a reliable sourcing for this, but either need US$3.95, or my local library.  Stay tuned.  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 17:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Birth year
What year was Chao really born? I noticed that when I dug all the way back into the oldest versions of this article, it stated she was born in 1956 or 1957. Now it says 1959. I Googled her and most sites say 1957, only a few said 1959. But this article says 1959. What year was she really born? Anybody know for sure? Something just seems off here...  Lady   Galaxy  02:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The issue here is reliable sourcing for her birth year. You're right: a lot of places on the interwebs have differing dates for Ms. Chao's DOB (including an IP address claiming to be her son,  ).  However, the sites I came across when working on this article were generally unreliable (with respects to "Wikipedia-reliability") with the exception of Yahoo! Movies and The New York Times—both of which listed the DOB currently in the article.  I have now cited her DOB specifically in the article to address these concerns .  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 03:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Under her name
Why does it say "B.J." under her name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.94.98.192 (talk) 04:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Section rewrite
The section regarding the filmography needs to organized better. Winterysteppe (talk) 23:35, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Birth year again
A recent edit added this source for Chao's age:. The source quotes her as saying most sources online have her age as 10 years too high (e.g. born in 1957), and specifically that Wikipedia does as well. The source supports the 1967 date. However, that would make her only 10 in this photo from a 1977 episode of Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew:. She is definitely not 10 in that photo. I don't think a source that claims the 1967 date can be trusted, in light of that evidence, so I've reverted to the previous version. --Fru1tbat (talk) 17:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 * No date should be added without meeting the requirements of WP:DOB ("Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources"). IMDb, "On this day" entries in newspapers and magazines, and online databases do not meet the reliable sourcing criteria for inclusion of disputed content in a BLP. If there are equally reliable sources providing conflicting dates then both dates should be provided along with the corresponding sources, subject to editorial discretion and consensus.-- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 18:05, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I was hoping this would just go away, but her birth year is still being switched back and forth. Her college lists her graduation year as 1978, and photos from multiple roles in the 70s and early 80s make it clear she could not have been born in 1967 - whatever reliable sources have that year are pretty obviously wrong. I'm familiar with all the relevant policies and guidelines - surely there is a solution that satisfies all the relevant aims here. This is getting absurd. --Fru1tbat (talk) 13:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

And once more, since this is still ongoing, and the party/parties trying to push a younger age/later birthdate have refused to engage in any real dialog, there is fairly ample evidence online against a 1967 birthdate. Not all of it qualifies as reliable sources for article content, but it should absolutely be reliable enough to aid conscientious editors wishing to make an informed decision about this dispute. Which, it needs to be said, looks an awful lot like a concerted PR effort by multiple single-purpose accounts. --Fru1tbat (talk) 18:40, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Sources differ. Yahoo Movies (2006) and The New York Times (2009) say 1959, but Contemporary Theatre, Film and Television (circa 2007) says "born September 23, 1959 (some sources cite September 23, 1957), in Los Angeles (some sources say Anaheim or Orange County)".

 * And this 2013 Star Trek unauthorized book published by Hal Leonard says "born September 27, 1957, in Anaheim, California". This book was published in April 2012, when Wikipedia at the time had a 1959 birth year, so it's highly doubtful the author lifted that biographical info from Wikipedia. Arbor to SJ (talk) 05:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Correct year is 1957. See entry in California Birth Index: . --Shivertimbers433 (talk) 17:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2020
The Link that shows Rosalind Chao's graduation date from Pomona College is linked to a Blaisdell article that does NOT reference Rosalind Chao in it. Therefore that link should be removed. Why would you refer to an article that does not mention that person?? Mthompsonwiki (talk) 17:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I pulled the Aug 7 2020 snapshot of that page from the archive, as it has the information about Ms. Chao attending Pomona and graduating USC. It looks like Chao's section was removed from the 2018 award page between that snapshot and the next snapshot on Oct 1 2020. Coincidentally, that timeframe was the same as a concerted effort to change Ms. Chao's birthdate in this article to the dubious 1967 date. I wonder if Pomona took back her award as well, or if they let her keep it... --Fru1tbat (talk) 18:30, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rosalind Chao


text:
The Sunrays

The Sunrays (previously known as the Renegades, the Renegade 5, Larry Tremaine & the Renegades, the Rangers and the Dirt Riders) were an American band from Pacific Palisades, California. The group was led by singer/songwriter/drummer Rick Henn, who was a friend of the Beach Boys member Carl Wilson. Other members of the band were guitarists Eddy Medora and Byron Case, keyboard player Marty DiGiovanni, and bassist Vince Hozier.

Career
Their first job as the Renegades (in the late 1950s) was at the Seaside Session at Palisades Park in Pacific Palisades. In 1961 they teamed up with Larry Tremaine, and became Larry Tremaine and the Renegades, a rock and roll cover band, consisting of: Larry Tremaine, Steve O'Riley (now deceased), Marty DiGiovanni, Rick Henn, Eddy Medora (November 28, 1945 – October 27, 2006), and Vince Hozier (February 26, 1946 – March 18, 2007). Tremaine booked them every week at radio dances, UCLA, clubs, celebrity parties, and corporate events.

They appeared at Crescendo Interlude on the Sunset Strip with Joey Dee and the Starliters, the Teen Age Fair at Pacific Ocean Park, the after party for the 1963 Academy Awards, The Bob Eubanks TV Dance Party, and every Friday night as the house dance party band at the San Bernardino, California Civic Auditorium.

In 1963, Tremaine went into the radio stations KBLA and KRLA, and later television, and became the host of the syndicated nationwide Casino Royale Dance Party.

In 1964, Murry Wilson, the father of Brian, Carl, and Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys, started managing them and changed their name to The Sunrays. Eddy Medora switched from the saxophone to rhythm guitar. Steve O'Riley, who played lead guitar and sang, left the band when "I Live for the Sun" began to break, saying "I don't wanna be in the group anymore, I think I can make it on my own." O'Riley was replaced by Byron Case.

Their hits included "I Live for the Sun" (1965) (No. 51 US, No. 20 Australia), "Andrea" (1966) (No. 41 US), and "Still" (1966) (No. 93 US).

They toured the United States and opened for the Beach Boys in the U.S. and Canada.

Singles

 * "Car Party" / "Outta Gas" — Tower 101—September 1964
 * "I Live For The Sun" (Billboard #51, RPM #3 ) / "Bye Baby Bye" — Tower 148—August 1965
 * "Andrea" (Billboard #41, RPM #2 )) / "You Don't Phase Me" — Tower 191—December 1965
 * "Still" (Billboard #93, RPM #72 )) / "When You're Not Here" — Tower 224—March 1966
 * "Don't Take Yourself Too Seriously" / "I Look Baby, I Can't See" — Tower 256—July 1966
 * "Hi, How Are You" / "Just 'Round The River Bend" — Tower 290—November 1966
 * "Loaded With Love" / "Time (A Special Thing)" — Tower 340—May 1967

Albums

 * Andrea — Tower T-5017 (Mono)/ST-5017 (Stereo)—1966

Compilation albums

 * Vintage Rays — Collectable Records—1996

title: The Sunrays


text:
Talk:Dr. Martens

Recovering vs Looting
The description was changed some time ago from "looting" to "recovering valuables", whereas the german version of this page has a quote from Klaus Märtens."„Der Krieg ging zu Ende und jeder stürmte nach draußen und begann zu plündern. Doch während die meisten Leute nach Wertgegenständen wie Schmuck und Pelzen suchten, suchte ich mir einen Leisten, etwas Leder, Nadeln und Nähfäden und machte mir daraus ein Paar Schuhe mit den dicken luftgepolsterten Sohlen, die ich mir ausgedacht hatte.“"Translated:

"The war ended and everyone rushed outside and started looting. But while most people were looking for valuables like jewelry and furs, I found a last, some leather, needles and sewing thread and made myself a pair of shoes with the thick air-cushioned soles I'd come up with."

From this quote, Märtens himself refers to his actions as looting, for the supplies he needed to make clothes. Note the use of the verb "plündern" rather than "zurückgewonnen" or "wiedergunden". Charlesv42 (talk) 09:55, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Märtens himself refers to his actions as plündern, which the other editor translated as "liberated" or whathaveyou. If we're going to be persnickety about it, what's wrong with the word "plunder"? — Llywelyn II   12:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Any reason this article uses the wrong name throughout?
I get leaving the page at Dr. Martens if they haven't bothered to correct their paperwork yet and we're focusing the article on the company itself but the  name of this footwear is "Doc Martens", it's not close, and we should use it consistently in the article to discuss the footwear sold by Dr. Martens PLC. The current article reads like it's discussing an herbal remedy or niche slightly unhinged soap. — Llywelyn II   12:55, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dr. Martens


text:
Crest of the Stars

Crest of the Stars (星界の紋章) is a three-volume space opera science fiction novel written by Hiroyuki Morioka with cover illustrations by Toshihiro Ono. This was followed by a second, ongoing novel series, Banner of the Stars (a.k.a. Seikai no Senki, currently six volumes) and a series of books collecting short stories set in the same universe known as Fragments of the Stars (星界の断章).

Beginning in 1999, the novels were adapted into anime and manga series, the first of which ran for 13 episodes on WOWOW. A recap movie, Crest of the Stars Special Edition, was also released in 2000.

Plot
Crest of the Stars chronicles how Jinto met Lafiel and the events that followed before the war.

When Jinto was a young boy, his world is invaded by the Abh empire. His father who was then president of the Hyde Star System, surrendered the system and earned for himself and his family a nobility within Abh society. Young Jinto is sent off to school in planet Delktou to learn the ways of Abh nobility and the story of Crest of the Stars picks up as he meets the young Abh princess, Lafiel who as a pilot trainee has been assigned to escort him to the patrol ship Gothlauth, a.k.a. Gosroth). Soon, they find themselves unready participants in the incident that would ignite the war between the Abh Empire and the Four Nations Alliance of Humankind — an anti-Abh alliance of the democratic nations of the United Mankind, the Federation of Hania, the Republic of Greater Alcont, and the People's Sovereign Union of Planets.

Main characters

 * Lin Shu Rock Yalulug Dril Hydal Jinto (リン・スューヌ・ロク・ヤルルーク・ドリュー・ハイダル・ジント)
 * Years after his father surrendered the Hyde Star System to the Abh Empire, Jinto is on his way to the capital to attend military school in preparation for claiming his title and succeeding his father as the next territorial lord. He befriends Lafiel not knowing that she is royalty. Although completely unused to life in space, he is quite dependable when on a planet surface.
 * Years after his father surrendered the Hyde Star System to the Abh Empire, Jinto is on his way to the capital to attend military school in preparation for claiming his title and succeeding his father as the next territorial lord. He befriends Lafiel not knowing that she is royalty. Although completely unused to life in space, he is quite dependable when on a planet surface.

 * Abriel Nei Debrusc Borl Paryun Lafiel (アブリアル・ネイ＝ドゥブレスク・ベール・パリュン・ラフィール)
 * Lafiel is the pilot trainee assigned to escort Jinto from the spaceport of Delktou to the patrol ship Gosroth. Although she is a member of the Abriel Imperial Family, she befriends him and allows him to call her by her name. As a space-dweller, she is somehow clueless of life in the surface world. She is self-sacrificing and strong-willed but eventually begins to have more faith in Jinto. She is a very good shot.
 * Lafiel is the pilot trainee assigned to escort Jinto from the spaceport of Delktou to the patrol ship Gosroth. Although she is a member of the Abriel Imperial Family, she befriends him and allows him to call her by her name. As a space-dweller, she is somehow clueless of life in the surface world. She is self-sacrificing and strong-willed but eventually begins to have more faith in Jinto. She is a very good shot.

Minor characters

 * Lexshue Wef-Robell Plakia
 * The captain of the patrol ship Gosroth, she decides to send Jinto and Lafiel to Sufugnoff once it is confirmed that the ship is about to be attacked.

 * Atosryua Syun-Atos Lyuf Febdash Klowal
 * The third Baron of Febdash, an obscure star system where Jinto and Lafiel made a stopover en route to Sufugnoff (Sfagnaumh). He is ambitious and at the same time embarrassed of his heritage. He tried to detain Lafiel and imprison Jinto, which brought dire consequences onto himself.

 * Atosryua Syun-Atos Lyuf Raika Febdash Srguf
 * The second Baron of Febdash and father of Klowal and Loïc. Due to his being a genetic "grounder," his own son despised him resulting in confinement and isolation. He became friends with Jinto and aided Lafiel in "punishing" Klowal.

 * Seelnay
 * A vassal of the Barony of Febdash who helped Lafiel take over the control room of the baron's mansion.

 * Inspector Entryua
 * Chief of the Police Department of Lune Biga, a city on Planet Clasbul in the Sufugnoff Star System. He is forced to cooperate with the invading forces of the United Mankind to search for Jinto and Lafiel.

 * Lt. Kyte
 * An Alliance military police officer from the United Mankind who led the search for Jinto and Lafiel in Clasbul. Because he is also genetically engineered, he is despised by most citizens of the United Mankind and is prevented from rising amongst the ranks of the military. This results in deep hatred against the Abh.

 * Anti-imperialist group of Clasbul
 * Though not necessarily "anti-Abh", it is a group seeking freedom to run their own shipping, transportation, and trade. They help the pair to flee Sufugnoff and escape the clutches of the United Mankind. For their assistance, as well as to meet the legal requirement for ship leasees to be ranking Abh nobles, they are raised to the rank of an Abh dame/equestrian (reucec).

Development
The series is notable for Morioka's creation of an entire language, Baronh, and an accompanying alphabet, Ath, used by the Abh. Almost all written text in the anime is in Baronh, with occasional text in other invented languages; at least one planet is shown to have adopted Ath to write their own language.

Books
Despite being commonly dubbed as a trilogy, the work is actually a three-volume novel. The three volumes were originally released by Hayakawa Publishing from April to June 1996.

The novel volumes were translated and released in English in softcover format by Tokyopop in 2006 and 2007.

On April 20, 2019, J-Novel Club announced they had licensed both Crest of the Stars and Banner of the Stars for digital and physical release. The J-Novel Club version of Crest of the Stars features a new translation. The digital release followed J-Novel Club's model of releasing "prepub" chapters on their website for premium members before the digital retail release on their site and other platforms like Amazon. The physical release for both series is in hardcover omnibus format, with three volumes per issue, with Crest of the Stars released on March 3, 2020.

 * Crest of the Stars I "Princess of the Empire" / "The Imperial Princess" (星界の紋章I 帝国の王女) (Seikai no Monshō I "Teikoku no Ōjo") (Released September 6, 2006 in U.S. by Tokyopop / June 9, 2019 by J-Novel Club (digital))
 * Crest of the Stars II "A Modest War" / "A War Most Modest" (星界の紋章II ささやかな戦い) (Seikai no Monshō II "Sasayaka na Tatakai") (Released January 9, 2007 in U.S. by Tokyopop / August 10, 2019 by J-Novel Club (digital))
 * Crest of the Stars III "Return to a Strange World" / "The Return to Strange Skies" (星界の紋章III 異郷への帰還) (Seikai no Monshō III "Ikyō e no Kikan") (Released May 8, 2007 in U.S. by Tokyopop / October 12, 2019 by J-Novel Club (digital))

Anime
Crest of the Stars was released in Japan in 1999 and in the United States by Bandai in 2001. At the end of 2002, TechTV announced that Crest of the Stars was to be one of the initial titles as part of their new Anime Unleashed programming and began broadcast at the end of 2002 and through 2003. Following the closure of Bandai Entertainment in 2012, Sunrise announced at Otakon 2013, that Funimation had licensed Crest of the Stars, Banner of the Stars I and II and Passage of the Stars. On December 25, 2019, Crest of The Stars and its sequel series Banner of the Stars were released on Blu-ray in Japan.

Radio drama
Radio drama adaptation was broadcast on FM Osaka, and has been released as CDs in three volumes. The cast is practically the same as the anime version, but with some changes.

Manga
Dengeki Comics released a one-volume manga adaptation of the novel on March 27, 2000, after serializing it in Monthly Comic Dengeki Daioh magazine in 1999. The manga was illustrated by Toshihiro Ono and written by Aya Yoshinaga, who has also written the anime adaptation. Hiroyuki Morioka is also credited on the cover as the original creator. Much like the anime series, it covers all three volumes. It was licensed by Tokyopop and released on June 8, 2004, under the name Seikai Trilogy, Vol. 1: Crest of the Stars, dubbed the first part of the Seikai Trilogy, since two other companion manga were also released, adapting Banner of the Stars I and II.

The first chapter of a new web manga adaptation of Crest of the Stars by Kōichirō Yonemura was published by Flex Comix in volume five of Nico Nico FlexComix Next digital magazine released on May 8, 2012 and on FlexComix Next site on May 22; the manga was transferred to Comic Meteor on September 5. The last chapter was released online on April 28, 2021. The first print volume of the manga went on sale on May 11, 2013 and the eighth and last was released on April 12, 2021. Both were released digitally three days earlier.

Video game
Roughly a year after the anime finished airing, on May 25, 2000 Bandai Visual released a video game adaptation for the PlayStation. It features a story inspired by both the Crest of the Stars and the Banner of the Stars novels, incorporating some of their characters. The game consists of 67 different space battles, with a story split in two paths with three possible endings each.

Reception
In 1996, the world of Japanese science fiction novels was in a slump. Many people considered the genre dead to such an extent that authors avoided it. The appearance of the Crest of the Stars novel was not only a surprise but also earned it the Seiun Award.

Reviews

 * Crest of the Stars – Overview of Crest of the Stars with excerpted scenes by AnimeOnDVD
 * Crest of the Stars – Review of Crest of the Stars by THEM Anime Reviews
 * Crest of the Stars – Overview of Crest of the Stars and Banner of the Stars I/II by Animerica

title: Crest of the Stars


text:
The Renegades (TV series)

The Renegades is an American action crime drama television series about a street gang that becomes a special police undercover unit in order to avoid jail time. The show starred Patrick Swayze as "Bandit", the leader of the gang.

Cast

 * Patrick Swayze as "Bandit"
 * Randy Brooks as "Eagle"
 * Paul Mones as J.T.
 * Tracy Scoggins as Tracy (TV movie pilot)
 * Robert Thaler as "Dancer"
 * Brian Tochi as "Dragon"
 * Angel Granados Jr. (2-hour pilot) and Fausto Bara (post-pilot) as Gaucho
 * James Luisi as Lieutenant Marciano
 * Kurtwood Smith as Captain Scanlon

Episodes
The two-hour television movie backdoor pilot for this series aired on August 11, 1982.

Broadcast history
After the success of the movie The Warriors, Hollywood looked to take the youth gang concept and market it to TV. In 1981, Swayze did a TV show, Return of the Rebels, about an aging motorcycle gang who get together to help a friend who owns a popular campground that is being threatened by a band of arrogant groupies. However, the show didn't catch on and was quickly canceled.

Brother team Lawrence and Charles Gordon tried to market Swayze's rebel look, combine the gang concept with a police angle and came up with The Renegades. Roger Spottiswoode directed the TV movie pilot that premiered on August 11, 1982 and a six-episode series was broadcast in Spring 1983. It had weak ratings and ABC cancelled the show.

title: The Renegades (TV series)