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Constantine V

Constantine V (Κωνσταντῖνος; Constantinus; July 718 – 14 September 775) was Byzantine emperor from 741 to 775. His reign saw a consolidation of Byzantine security from external threats. As an able military leader, Constantine took advantage of civil war in the Muslim world to make limited offensives on the Arab frontier. With this eastern frontier secure, he undertook repeated campaigns against the Bulgars in the Balkans. His military activity, and policy of settling Christian populations from the Arab frontier in Thrace, made Byzantium's hold on its Balkan territories more secure. He was also responsible for important military and administrative innovations and reforms.

Religious strife and controversy was a prominent feature of his reign. His fervent support of Iconoclasm and opposition to monasticism led to his vilification by some contemporary commentators and the majority of later Byzantine writers, who denigrated him with the nicknames "Dung-Named" (Κοπρώνυμος; Copronymus), because he allegedly defaecated during his baptism, similarly "Anointed with Urine" (Οὐραλύφιος; Uralyphius), and "the Equestrian" (Καβαλλίνος; Caballinus), referencing the excrement of horses.

Early life
Constantine was born in Constantinople, the son and successor of Emperor Leo III and his wife Maria. In the Easter of 720, at two years of age, he was associated with his father on the throne, and crowned co-emperor by Patriarch Germanus I. In Byzantine political theory more than one emperor could share the throne; however, although all were accorded the same ceremonial status, only one emperor wielded ultimate power. As the position of emperor was in theory, and sometimes in practise, elective rather than strictly hereditary, a ruling emperor would often associate a son or other chosen successor with himself as a co-emperor to ensure the eventual succession. To celebrate the coronation of his son, Leo III introduced a new silver coin, the miliaresion; worth a 12th of a gold nomisma, it soon became an integral part of the Byzantine economy. In 726, Constantine's father issued the Ecloga; a revised legal code, it was attributed to both father and son jointly. Constantine married Tzitzak, daughter of the Khazar khagan Bihar, an important Byzantine ally. His new bride was baptized Irene (Eirēnē, "peace") in 732. On his father's death, Constantine succeeded as sole emperor on 18 June 741.

Historical accounts of Constantine make reference to a chronic medical condition, possibly epilepsy or leprosy; early in his reign this may have been employed by those rebelling against him to question his fitness to be emperor.

Rebellion of Artabasdos
Immediately after Constantine's accession in 741, his brother-in-law Artabasdos, husband of his older sister, Anna, rebelled. Artabasdos was the stratēgos (military governor) of the Opsikion theme (province) and had effective control of the Armeniac theme. The event is sometimes dated to 742, but this has been shown to be wrong.

Artabasdos struck against Constantine when their respective troops combined for an intended campaign against the Umayyad Caliphate; a trusted member of Constantine's retinue, called Beser, was killed in the attack. Constantine escaped and sought refuge in Amorion, where he was welcomed by the local soldiers, who had been commanded by Leo III before he became emperor. Meanwhile, Artabasdos advanced on Constantinople and, with the support of Theophanes Monutes (Constantine's regent) and Patriarch Anastasius, was acclaimed and crowned emperor. Constantine received the support of the Anatolic and Thracesian themes; Artabasdos secured the support of the theme of Thrace in addition to his own Opsikion and Armeniac soldiers.

The rival emperors bided their time making military preparations. Artabasdos marched against Constantine at Sardis in May 743 but was defeated. Three months later Constantine defeated Artabasdos' son Niketas and his Armeniac troops at Modrina and headed for Constantinople. In early November Constantine entered the capital, following a siege and a further battle. He immediately targeted his opponents, having many blinded or executed. Patriarch Anastasius was paraded on the back of an ass around the hippodrome to the jeers of the Constantinopolitan mob, though he was subsequently allowed to stay in office. Artabasdos, having fled the capital, was apprehended at the fortress of Pouzanes in Anatolia, probably located to the south of Nicomedia. Artabasdos and his sons were then publicly blinded and secured in the monastery of Chora on the outskirts of Constantinople.

Constantine's support of iconoclasm

Like his father Leo III, Constantine supported iconoclasm, which was a theological movement that rejected the veneration of religious images and sought to destroy those in existence. Iconoclasm was later definitively classed as heretical. Constantine's avowed enemies in what was a bitter and long-lived religious dispute were the iconodules, who defended the veneration of images. Iconodule writers applied to Constantine the derogatory epithet Kopronymos ("dung-named", from kopros, meaning "faeces" or "animal dung", and onoma, "name"). Using this obscene name, they spread the rumour that as an infant he had defiled his own baptism by defaecating in the font, or on the imperial purple cloth with which he was swaddled.

Constantine questioned the legitimacy of any representation of God or Christ. The church father John Damascene made use of the term 'uncircumscribable' in relation to the depiction of God. Constantine, relying on the linguistic connection between 'uncircumscribed' and 'incapable of being depicted', argued that the uncircumscribable cannot be legitimately depicted in an image. As Christian theology holds that Christ is God, He also cannot be represented in an image. The Emperor was personally active in the theological debate; evidence exists for him composing thirteen treatises, two of which survive in fragmentary form. He also presented his religious views at meetings organised throughout the empire, sending representatives to argue his case. In February 754, Constantine convened a synod at Hieria, which was attended entirely by iconoclast bishops. The council agreed with Constantine's religious policy on images, declaring them anathema, and it secured the election of a new iconoclast patriarch. However, it refused to endorse all of Constantine's policies, which were influenced by the more extremist iconoclasts and were critical of the veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus, and of the saints. The council confirmed the status of Mary as Theotokos (Θεοτόκος), or 'Mother of God', upheld the use of the terms "saint" and "holy" as legitimate, and condemned the desecration, burning, or looting of churches in the quest to suppress icon veneration.

The synod of Hieria was followed by a campaign to remove images from the walls of churches and to purge the court and bureaucracy of iconodules. Since monasteries tended to be strongholds of iconophile sentiment and contributed little or nothing towards the secular needs of the state, Constantine specifically targeted these communities. He also expropriated monastic property for the benefit of the state or the army. These acts of repression against the monks were largely led by the Emperor's general Michael Lachanodrakon, who threatened resistant monks with blinding and exile. In the hippodrome he organised the pairing of numerous monks and nuns in forced marriage, publicly ridiculing their vows of chastity. An iconodule abbot, Stephen Neos, was beaten to death by a mob at the behest of the authorities. As a result of persecution, many monks fled to southern Italy and Sicily. The implacable resistance of iconodule monks and their supporters led to their propaganda reaching those close to the Emperor. On becoming aware of an iconodule influenced conspiracy directed at himself, Constantine reacted uncompromisingly; in 765, eighteen high dignitaries charged with treason were paraded in the hippodrome, then variously executed, blinded or exiled. Patriarch Constantine II of Constantinople was implicated and deposed from office, and the following year he was tortured and beheaded.

By the end of Constantine's reign, iconoclasm had gone as far as to brand relics and prayers to the saints as heretical, or at least highly questionable. However, the extent of coherent official campaigns to forcibly destroy or cover up religious images or the existence of widespread government-sanctioned destruction of relics has been questioned by more recent scholarship. There is no evidence, for example, that Constantine formally banned the cult of saints. Pre-iconoclastic religious images did survive, and various existing accounts record that icons were preserved by being hidden. In general, the culture of pictorial religious representation appears to have survived the iconoclast period largely intact. The extent and severity of iconoclastic destruction of images and relics was exaggerated in later iconodule writings.

Iconodules considered Constantine's death a divine punishment. In the 9th century, following the ultimate triumph of the iconodules, Constantine's remains were removed from the imperial sepulchre in the Church of the Holy Apostles.

Domestic policies and administration
Assiduous in courting popularity, Constantine consciously employed the hippodrome, scene of the ever-popular chariot races, to influence the populace of Constantinople. In this he made use of the 'circus factions', which controlled the competing teams of charioteers and their supporters, had widespread social influence, and could mobilise large numbers of the citizenry. The hippodrome became the setting of rituals of humiliation for war captives and political enemies, in which the mob took delight. Constantine's sources of support were the people and the army, and he used them against his iconodule opponents in the monasteries and in the bureaucracy of the capital. Iconoclasm was not purely an imperial religious conviction, it also had considerable popular support: some of Constantine's actions against the iconodules may have been motivated by a desire to retain the approval of the people and the army. The monasteries were exempt from taxation and monks from service in the army; the Emperor's antipathy towards them may have derived to a greater extent from secular, fiscal and manpower, considerations than from a reaction to their theology.

Constantine carried forward the administrative and fiscal reforms initiated by his father Leo III. The military governors (στρατηγοί, strategoi) were powerful figures, whose access to the resources of their extensive provinces often provided the means of rebellion. The Opsikion theme had been the power-base that enabled the rebellion of Artabasdos, and was also the theme situated nearest to the capital within Asia Minor. Constantine reduced the size of this theme, dividing from it the Bucellarian and, perhaps, the Optimaton themes. In those provinces closest to the seat of government this measure increased the number of strategoi and diminished the resources available to any single one, making rebellion less easy to accomplish.

Constantine was responsible for the creation of a small central army of fully professional soldiers, the imperial tagmata (literally: 'the regiments'). He achieved this by training for serious warfare a corps of largely ceremonial guards units that were attached to the imperial palace, and expanding their numbers. This force was designed to form the core of field armies and was composed of better-drilled, better-paid, and better-equipped soldiers than were found in the provincial themata units, whose troops were part-time soldier-farmers. Before their expansion, the vestigial Scholae and the other guards units presumably contained few useful soldiers, therefore Constantine must have incorporated former thematic soldiers into his new formation. Being largely based at or near the capital, the tagmata were under the immediate control of the Emperor and were free of the regional loyalties that had been behind so many military rebellions. The fiscal administration of Constantine was highly competent. This drew from his enemies accusations of being a merciless and rapacious extractor of taxes and an oppressor of the rural population. However, the empire was prosperous and Constantine left a very well-stocked treasury for his successor. The area of cultivated land within the Empire was extended and food became cheaper; between 718 and c. 800 the corn (wheat) production of Thrace trebled. Constantine's court was opulent, with splendid buildings, and he consciously promoted the patronage of secular art to replace the religious art that he removed.

Constantine constructed a number of notable buildings in the Great Palace of Constantinople, including the Church of the Virgin of the Pharos and the porphyra. The porphyra was a chamber lined with porphyry, a stone of imperial purple colour. In it expectant empresses underwent the final stages of labour and it was the birthplace of the children of reigning emperors. Constantine's son Leo was the first child born here, and thereby obtained the title porphyrogénnētos (born in the purple) the ultimate accolade of legitimacy for an imperial prince or princess. The concept of a 'purple birth' predated the construction of the chamber, but it gained a literal aspect from the chamber's existence. The porphyry was reputed to have come from Rome and represented a direct link to the ancient origins of Byzantine imperial authority. Constantine also rebuilt the prominent church of Hagia Eirene in Constantinople, which had been badly damaged by the earthquake that hit Constantinople in 740. The building preserves rare examples of iconoclastic church decoration.

With the impetus of having fathered numerous offspring, Constantine codified the court titles given to members of the imperial family. He associated only his eldest son, Leo, with the throne as co-emperor (in 751), but gave his younger sons the titles of caesar for the more senior in age and nobelissimos for the more junior.

Campaigns against the Arabs
In 746, profiting by the unstable conditions in the Umayyad Caliphate, which was falling apart under Marwan II, Constantine invaded Syria and captured Germanikeia his father's birthplace), and he recaptured the island of Cyprus. He organised the resettlement of part of the local Christian population to imperial territory in Thrace, strengthening the empire's control of this region. In 747 his fleet destroyed the Arab fleet off Cyprus. The same year saw a serious outbreak of plague in Constantinople, which caused a pause in Byzantine military operations. Constantine retired to Bithynia to avoid the disease and, after it had run its course, resettled people from mainland Greece and the Aegean islands in Constantinople to replace those who had perished.

In 751 he led an invasion into the new Abbasid Caliphate under As-Saffah. Constantine captured Theodosiopolis and Melitene, which he demolished, and again resettled some of the population in the Balkans. The eastern campaigns failed to secure concrete territorial gains, as there was no serious attempt to retain control of the captured cities, except Camachum (modern Kemah), which was garrisoned. However, under Constantine the Empire had gone on the offensive against the Arabs after over a century of largely defensive warfare. Constantine's major goal in his eastern campaigns seems to have been to forcibly gather up local Christian populations from beyond his borders in order to resettle Thrace. Additionally, the deliberate depopulation of the region beyond the eastern borders created a no-man's land where the concentration and provisioning of Arab armies was made more difficult. This in turn increased the security of Byzantine Anatolia. His military reputation was such that, in 757, the mere rumour of his presence caused an Arab army to retreat. In the same year he agreed a truce and an exchange of prisoners with the Arabs, freeing his army for offensive campaigning in the Balkans.

Events in Italy
With Constantine militarily occupied elsewhere, and the continuance of imperial influence in the West being given a low priority, the Lombard king Aistulf captured Ravenna in 755, ending over two centuries of Byzantine rule in central Italy. The lack of interest Constantine showed in Italian affairs had profound and lasting consequences. Pope Stephen II, seeking protection from the aggression of the Lombards, appealed in person to the Frankish king Pepin the Short. Pepin cowed Aistulf and restored Stephen to Rome at the head of an army. This began the Frankish involvement in Italy that eventually established Pepin's son Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor, and also instigated papal temporal rule in Italy with the creation of the Papal States.

Constantine sent a number of unsuccessful embassies to the Lombards, Franks and the papacy to demand the restoration of Ravenna, but never attempted a military reconquest or intervention.

Repeated campaigns against the Bulgarians
The successes in the east made it possible to then pursue an aggressive policy in the Balkans. Constantine aimed to enhance the prosperity and defence of Thrace by the resettlement there of Christian populations transplanted from the east. This influx of settlers, allied to an active re-fortification of the border, caused concern to the Empire's northern neighbour, Bulgaria, leading the two states to clash in 755. Kormisosh of Bulgaria raided as far as the Anastasian Wall (the outermost defence of the approaches to Constantinople) but was defeated in battle by Constantine, who inaugurated a series of nine successful campaigns against the Bulgarians in the next year, scoring a victory over Kormisosh's successor Vinekh at Marcellae. In 759, Constantine was defeated in the Battle of the Rishki Pass, but the Bulgarians were not able to exploit their success.

Constantine campaigned against the Slav tribes of Thrace and Macedonia in 762, deporting some tribes to the Opsician theme in Anatolia, though some voluntarily requested relocation away from the troubled Bulgarian border region. A contemporary Byzantine source reported that 208,000 Slavs emigrated from Bulgarian controlled areas into Byzantine territory and were settled in Anatolia.

A year later he sailed to Anchialus with 800 ships carrying 9,600 cavalry and some infantry, gaining a victory over Khan Telets. Many Bulgar nobles were captured in the battle, and were later slaughtered outside the Golden Gate of Constantinople by the circus factions. Telets was assassinated in the aftermath of his defeat. In 765 the Byzantines again successfully invaded Bulgaria, during this campaign both Constantine's candidate for the Bulgarian throne, Toktu, and his opponent, Pagan, were killed. Pagan was killed by his own slaves when he sought to evade his Bulgarian enemies by fleeing to Varna, where he wished to defect to the emperor. The cumulative effect of Constantine's repeated offensive campaigns and numerous victories caused considerable instability in Bulgaria, where six monarchs lost their crowns due to their failures in war against Byzantium.

In 775, the Bulgarian ruler Telerig contacted Constantine to ask for sanctuary, saying that he feared that he would have to flee Bulgaria. Telerig enquired as to whom he could trust within Bulgaria, and Constantine foolishly revealed the identities of his agents in the country. The named Byzantine agents were then promptly eliminated. In response, Constantine set out on a new campaign against the Bulgarians, during which he developed carbuncles on his legs. He died during his return journey to Constantinople, on 14 September 775. Though Constantine was unable to destroy the Bulgar state, or impose a lasting peace, he restored imperial prestige in the Balkans.

Assessment and legacy
Constantine V was a highly capable ruler, continuing the reforms – fiscal, administrative and military – of his father. He was also a successful general, not only consolidating the empire's borders, but actively campaigning beyond those borders, both east and west. At the end of his reign the empire had strong finances, a capable army that was proud of its successes and a church that appeared to be subservient to the political establishment.

In concentrating on the security of the empire's core territories he tacitly abandoned some peripheral regions, notably in Italy, which were lost. However, the hostile reaction of the Roman Church and the Italian people to iconoclasm had probably doomed imperial influence in central Italy, regardless of any possible military intervention. Due to his espousal of iconoclasm Constantine was damned in the eyes of contemporary iconodule writers and subsequent generations of Orthodox historians. Typical of this demonisation are the descriptions of Constantine in the writings of Theophanes the Confessor: "a monster athirst for blood", "a ferocious beast", "unclean and bloodstained magician taking pleasure in evoking demons", "a precursor of Antichrist". However, to his army and people he was "the victorious and prophetic Emperor". Following a disastrous defeat of the Byzantines by the Bulgarian Khan Krum in 811 at the Battle of Pliska, troops of the tagmata broke into Constantine's tomb and implored the dead emperor to lead them once more. The life and actions of Constantine, if freed from the distortion caused by the adulation of his soldiers and the demonisation of iconodule writers, show that he was an effective administrator and gifted general, but he was also autocratic, uncompromising and sometimes needlessly harsh.

All surviving contemporary and later Byzantine histories covering the reign of Constantine were written by iconodules. As a result of this, they are open to suspicion of bias and inaccuracy, particularly when attributing motives to the Emperor, his supporters and opponents. This makes any claims of absolute certainty regarding Constantine's policies and the extent of his repression of iconodules unreliable. In particular, a manuscript written in north-eastern Anatolia concerning miracles attributed to St. Theodore is one of few probably written during or just after the reign of Constantine to survive in its original form; it contains little of the extreme invective common to later iconodule writings. In contrast, the author indicates that iconodules had to make accommodations with imperial iconoclastic policies, and even bestows on Constantine V the conventional religious acclamations: 'Guarded by God' (θεοφύλακτος) and 'Christ-loving emperor' (φιλόχριστος βασιλεὺς).

Family
By his first wife, Tzitzak ("Irene of Khazaria"), Constantine V had one son:
 * Leo IV, who succeeded as emperor. He was crowned in 751.

By his second wife, Maria, Constantine V is not known to have had children.

By his third wife, Eudokia, Constantine V had five sons and a daughter:
 * Christopher, caesar
 * Nikephoros, caesar
 * Niketas, nobelissimos
 * Eudokimos, nobelissimos
 * Anthimos, nobelissimos
 * Anthousa (an iconodule, after her father's death she became a nun, she was later venerated as Saint Anthousa the Younger

Literature

 * The Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, Oxford University Press, 1991.
 * Martindale, John et al, (2001). Prosopography of the Byzantine Empire (641-867). [Online edition http://www.pbe.kcl.ac.uk]

title: Constantine V


text:
Talk:Jhonen Vasquez

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 15 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SamLambert12.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:14, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Cited Influence
Anyone who has seen the Akira motion picture alone should be able to notice a direct Katsuhiro Otomo influence on Vasquez whether this has actually been cited publicly or otherwise.

Article Rewrite
Someone needs to rewrite this article. It is horrendous. I would, but I hate this guy. 66.69.43.213 (talk) 15:37, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Mindless Self Indulgence
So yeh. On 2 seperate occasions I've been told by both Kitty, and Steve Righ? (From MSI) That Jhonen is doing there next albums C.D cover —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.121.194 (talk) 21:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Go to MSI's website, I personally think it is Jhonen's work. I, most likely, am wrong. 76.254.194.101 (talk) 03:29, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

DA Account
This could be a simple rumor, but supposedly Jhonen has an account on www.deviantart.com, as Jhonen-V. Could someone look into this? TigerDude 21:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I can say with 100% confidence that that is not the DA account of the real Jhonen. Number one, he knows how to spell to the word "too". Number two, he has never and probably would never actually use his own face as an icon/avatar - and he especially would not use such a dated picture. Number three, the signature is EXACTLY the same in every picture - same curve, same size of the letters, same "E", etc., which points to it being 'shopped in. Number four, the style and quality (not as in sketch versus finished, I mean quality as far as the talent of the hand that drew it) varies greatly. One of the drawings looks remarkably like an Aaron Alexovich design or otherwise an official production sketch, another is obviously fanart. This is not Jhonen's DA account, and, as far as I know, he does not have a DA account; rather, it's someone pretending to be Jhonen for kicks. I would report the account to the administrators for identity and art theft. megumi 07:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Just call him up and ask, wtf. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.184.201.146 (talk) 05:39, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Eisner Award
I don't know how to add a citation, but this was mentioned by Dan Vado (President/Founder of SLG) in the 2005 Jhonen feature panel at San Diego Comic Con. Video of this panel can be readily found on youtube. Rubberducky 11:03, 14 October 2006
 * I don't think we can use YouTube as a source, though... --InShaneee 15:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But the panel itself should be able to be sourced, shouldn't it? I don't think where the video of the panel is hosted should be an issue; I mean, whether it's hosted at a personal website or at YouTube, it's the same video. But if the location of the hosting is a big deal, I can offer to host the videos on my personal webspace - or if video itself can't be cited for whatever really strange reason, I can also type up a transcription. Rubberducky 12:30, 15 October 2006
 * That's exactly the problem, actually...Wikipedia can't link to content of questionable copyright status, and we have no idea who holds the copyright to that video. --InShaneee 18:22, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What about the transcription idea, then? Does the questionable copyright status on the original video transfer over to that, as well? Tracking who originally filmed the video would probably be nigh impossible. Maybe I am just ignorant as to the workings of Wikipedia and etc but it seems... very odd to me to not be able to use things that Jhonen is saying, on video, as a source just because we don't know who taped the video. --Rubberducky 21:32, 16 October 2006
 * I think if you quote from it and then mention it was said in a panel at Comic Con it would be okay, and then people could check for themselves if they had any doubts.--68.35.94.119 01:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I would very much like the editor who deleted the passage about the Eisner Award nomination for JTHM to let me know how we can cite the panel - the video of the panel in which Jhonen and Dan are talking - as a source on Wikipedia, so that the information can remain in the article. If the panel video is unable to be cited simply because it is on Youtube, or because we don't know who originally filmed it - which I, personally, think is ridiculous - then please let me know some manner in which the statement can be cited, whether this is through transcription of the entire panel or whether a referral link would be enough. Thank you. Rubberducky 2:10, 24 January 2007

 * We can link to non-copyrighted YouTube material; I saw the specific policy yesterday, though I didn't bookmark it and lost that page in the mire of policies and guidelines. Given the length of some YouTube videos, it'd be best to also supply the exact quote in article text, so that someone searching through the video knows what he or she is looking forl

 * NOTE: Unless it's an official on the Eisner Awards committee saying it, or some other official source, then it's not confirmed. A creator or a publisher claiming he was a nominee, as seems to be the case here, is not confirmation. Is that the only evidence?--Tenebrae 18:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the quick response, Tenebrae. According to the dialogue in the panel, it's not so much that JTHM was actually nominated, but rather that it was considered for nomination, but passed over because there was a judge who found the lettering too difficult to read -- does being considered for nomination still require a direct-from-Eisner-people source? While lists of nominees stay around on the internet for awhile, I don't think that lists of almost-nominees do; in this case I would think that Dan as the predisent of SLG would be a viable source, but I'm not well-versed in journalistic practices. Either way, the exact quote from the panel is as follows:

 * Dan: ... 4 of the 5 panelists who nominate people for Eisner Awards had wanted to nominate Johnny the Homicidal Maniac for Best New Comic. And the fifth judge - I guess it needs to be unanimous - shot them all down simply because he found some of the lettering difficult to read, and said that a comic that should be considered for an award shouldn't be hard to physically read. (This is 20 minutes, 40 seconds into the second part of the panel video, which was originally distributed in three parts. I can time it out compared to the youtube clips if that's needed.)

 * Again, thanks for your prompt response.Rubberducky 20:33, 24 January 2007

Stick Figure
This is a pretty good article..BUT: 'His characters are thin to the point of almost being stick figures.' I've got alot of Jhonens work and as far as I can see there arent many stick figures at all (...Not including Happy Noodle Boy). So just wondering if anyone else feels the same... I could be totally wrong though :P Kokiri kid 11:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I suppose a more accurate sentence would be "Jhonen's main characters are often thin to the point of almost beign stick figures." As Johnny, Devi and of course, Happy Noodle Boy are all very thin. In one of the Johnny comics, Johnny mentions that he was called "Noodle Boy" as a kid, for being very skinny. It is unclear whether this has any bearing on Jhonen's own youth. Weenerbunny 18:59, 08 June 2006

Is The Bad Art Collection a TV show? If so, it can be merged with the list in the previous paragraph.

Also, add his date of birth if possible.
 * Molinari

The Bad Art Collection is actually a small comic-sized book which contains just what the title implies: bad art. 16 pages of... bad art. --Kakosenas 03:29, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hm... isnt his name pronounced Ho-nin Vass-Kezz? Not, Jo-nin? 68.147.195.99 19:31, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It is a hispanic name but only if your speaking in spanish would it be Ho-nin. --BerserkerBen 3 July 2005 15:24 (UTC)
 * So, should I start pronouncing San José, California to rhyme with rose? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 21:19, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * To your rebuttal, a rebuttal: So do you pronounce "Los Angeles" like "Los Anheles?" I would say however he chose to pronounce it (introduce himself) would be correct, though personally I don't know how he does.--Lord Shitzu 23:51, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, I say "Loss Anjehliss", but I wasn't the one trying to be prescriptive about how the man's name was pronounced. ;) --Dante Alighieri | Talk 15:41, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * All my Spanish speaking relatives (the majority of my relatives) call me "ben-hum-ing" (phonetically written, attempting to at least) while my English speaking relatives call be “ben-ja-men” so please tell me which is the correct pronunciation? If you can do that then we can figure out Jhonen's name. --BerserkerBen 02:09, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Again, *I* was not the one being prescriptive about pronunciation. *I* am making no statements about "correct" pronunciation, *you* were. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem with that argument is that you assume that just because he is a Mexican-American that his first name is automatically Spanish, and should be pronounced as such. It's "Jo-Nehn". And the last name would be pronounced "Bass-kes(with the S trailing into a light 'z')" in Mexican Spanish.

In an interview on G4's "ScreenSavers", the announcer pronounced his name "yo-hawn". Jhonen corrected this by saying, "It is jo-nen, by the way. I hate you, whoever said that." So, regardless of how his name was originally intended to be pronounced, Jhonen prefers jo-nen. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.51.251 (talk • contribs)

 * According to Spookyland/Roman-

 * Jhonen (pronounced: Joe-nen)

 * - YES you pronounce the "J", and it's a hard "J" (like "joke" or "job")

 * - The "H" is silent (like "ghost" and "rhyme")

 * - The "E" is a soft/short "E". (like "pen" and "hen"). -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by BitterSunrise (talk • contribs)

okay first of all it is JO-nen he says so himself in the comentary for Invader Zim. if any of you were ture Zim fans (or jhonen fans watching the show because it was his work) youd know that Note i an not being arrogent i just want to clearify that he says his name is pornounced jo-nen not ho-nen. --dino-amie october 14 2006
 * Dude, wow. No offense, but spell check. >> --SquidMoose (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.234.126.182 (talk • contribs) signed with name at odds with identity recorded in History

Nobody Expects Jinji
What does "Nobody Expects Jinji" even mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ace Class Shadow (talk • contribs)

Umm... what is this "Nobody Expects Jinji" from? Am I missing something here? Maybe you should be a little more specific. DreamsofTacos 18:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Vandalism from months and months ago. Moving on... --InShaneee 20:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture
I found a picture of Jhonen here: http://www.supersnail.com/images8/3__ape_05_01_juaxss.jpg. But, I don't know the licensing! Help me! Red Alien 22:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

 * If you wanted to use it, you'd have to ask the person who runs that site (who also appears to claim copyright over all its pictures) to release the pic under a copyright licence such as Creative Commons. --InShaneee 22:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The persone how complaned that the photo was old can explane him self,It's not like if he is 80 years old now.--Pixel ;-) 19:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

 * No, but he does look quite different in that photo, which was taken in 1999, I believe, than he does now. I would think that it would make sense to use a recent picture, not one from almost eight years ago. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/dreamsoftacos/the%20night/Jhonen.jpg is a very recent picture, from his signing at Chicago Comics in late August. --Rubberducky

 * Hehe, that's actually from my Photobucket, I'm glad I can help spread the joy of Jhonen. --DreamsofTacos 11:33 8 November 2006

 * If it's your photo, do you mind if we use it for the picture in the article, instead of the horrendously old one? --Rubberducky 7:22 14 November 2006

 * Go for it! Jhonen is so hard to find, anything of his, actually. And pictures of Jhonen in my account are good for use. DreamsofTacos 20:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok, so, InShaneee, what would be the correct procedure for posting the new picture, since evidently I've done it incorrectly? --Rubberducky 15:23 18 November 2006 (EST)

New Comic
well ... the character design looks like ... and .. it is about love .... and has goths...

http://iamjapanese.blogspot.com/

for a better layout ... try http://www.groggie.com/w1k/strippers/ and go to "meowza"...

the article mentions that rikki is the voice of gir and on the coloring team twice-chris june 28 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubberducky (talk • contribs) Ok, Not sure what that last part was about, but its very possible that Jhonen is drawing that comic. He might be trying to throw his fans off again, hence the romantic style. And please, everyone, Sign your posts. Thanks. ;) TigerDude 21:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

 * It's not hisTheplanetsaturn 21:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Definitely not his. Why would he be posting shit on the net for free, if he could sell, especially considering his legion fanbase. I'm afraid that this is someone ripping off his art stile, which is something he despises. JackorKnave (talk) 22:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Jhonen to Jhnen?
There's a rumor going around that Jhonen has changed his name (at least the spelling) to Jhnen. Even his official journal seems to prefer this spelling, so it well might be true. Does anyone have more information on this matter? It seems a worthy thing to mention in the article if it is fact. --68.35.94.119 21:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, Jhonen has not changed the spelling of his name. The 'Jhnen VEE / Jhnen V / VEE' thing is just a funky little abbreviation he uses sometimes on the interwebulous. --Rubberducky 19:42, 23 October 2006 (EST)

-- I believe he started writing his name as jhnen to try to throw people off his scent, so they couldnt figure out his instant messenger contacts. Chris Furniss - weeklygeekshow.com 23:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Please
Please stop putting back that whole "critism of Goth culture and lifestyle," section. It is not nessecairy. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs)
 * No, you need to stop blanking it. The section is sourced and relevant, and removing it again will be considered vandalism. --InShaneee 17:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me? Where are you to come and tell ME what to do? As for vandalism, that's not for you to accuse. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs)

 * I'm an administrator and a long time user. It wasn't an accusation, it was a fact. --InShaneee 19:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Whatever... :(

Here, let me bring up an argument with that segment. People don't have the right to label him however, it should not be listed that he has spoken against the goth culture. If he HATES us then why are so many of his friends (such as Roman Dirge and musician Voltaire) are Goth, the victims of NNY's are not even considered actual Goths, but mallgoth posers. For example, in one of the MEANWHILES the letter from the stereotypical masonite obviously suggested he did not have the passion for the subculture as most goths, but only did that to fit in. Also, he uses Goth charecters and heros such as Devi (who is NOT a goth depiction), Tess and NNY. Sure, the charecters learned from their expirences but you never see a dramatic word/message or crappy phont "change". Jhonen has never spoken against the subculture in general but how many people don't apperciate the true meanings. -The Powerful -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs) (redlink to nowhere; improperly signed)

 * What we have is what is verifiable. Removing it again will be considered vandalism (again). --InShaneee 15:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

 * How come you did not acknoweldge any of the things I mentioned? Why can't you just put some POSITIVE things in there that he's done for the goth subculture rather than continually critqueing it negatively AS you people ALWAYS do. -The Powerful -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs) (redlink to nowhere; improperly signed)

 * Reread the section. It says nothing negative. You're being hypersensitive.Theplanetsaturn 03:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm really fucking tired of people saying he hates the subculture. If he's so NOT Goth, then how come he's never denounced himself in the subculture? Sure, he's said it about his comics but he's really fond of the culture. Read Suicide Girls interview. Also, the fillerbunny thing was bullshit. The guy was critizing the culture as well as Vasquez, that's why he died. Plus, if there's any catergory he fits under it would be hippie. Goth forever. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.144.174.133 (talk) 02:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

 * It has always been my impression that Jhonen is not fond of the current form of the goth subculture - that is to say, Hot-Topicky Mallgoths - or people who are in it for the dramatics or to try and fit in by pretending to be isolated. Unfortunately, that seems to be about 90% of the 'goth' population at the moment - something that he sees fit to comment on in a humorous and satirical (and sometimes annoyed) manner. But really, this whole 'goth or not goth' debate is pretty much pointless and stupid - why does anyone give a shit? Leave him alone and let him draw, or play WoW, or whatever. Meanwhile, reread the section, because it says absolutely nothing about Jhonen hating goths, just comments on the 'issue'.megumi 05:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The section says nothing about his "hating the subculture". Producing satire does not equal hate. Reread the section.Theplanetsaturn 03:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Vasquez hates the lable "goth", for both himself and his works. The article does not suggest that he hates the goth subculture. Many of his works do contain satires of goth, as the article states, but satire is a form of constuctive criticism, not hate, as Theplanetsaturn pointed out. Vasquez would probably puke all over himself if he knew anyone viewed him as a "hippie". He just hates lables, and people who apply them to him or his work, especially when his work obviously has absolutely nothing to do with the subculture, such as Fillerbunny. Ecto 04:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

 * WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU ECTO??!!!! Who gives a shit, ducky? I do! Because he does not hate the subculture and where has he denounced himself as Goth? WHERE??!!! -72.144.174.133

 * Hating the label and hating the subculture are not the same thing. You need to relax. Jhonen does not hate the subculture, but like most artists, he dislikes an inherently limiting description of his work, and has said as much himself.Theplanetsaturn 02:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh for the love of Jimmy this sure is getting violent. Jhonen's hate of ANYTHING is not the issue here, at all, what so ever. It would be extremely presumptuous for us to say what Jhonen HATES because we are not JHONEN. What we can say, is that his work often pokes fun at the things that are commonly labeled as goth in today's society, such as fat girls wearing 'Nine Inch Heels' shirt, and oh, let me think... ANNE GWISH?! HELLO? If that's not goth satire, I don't know what is. Quit trying to act like you're representing all of Jhonen's personal sentiments accurately in his defense and quit deleting the goth satire bit. Christ. --SquidMoose (talk) 21:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

 * And ironically, LOTS of self-described goths and emos love Invader Zim as well as Vasquez's other projects. --98.232.180.37 (talk) 04:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

What, exactly, is a "goth" subculture? What makes an individual within the "goth" subculture and authentic representation of said subculture? And lastly, how does a "hot topic mallgoth variant" differ from an authentic specimen? (sorry, had to ask) -geographyhorse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.239.81 (talk) 21:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

what's with the crummy, dated picture?
Pretty sure he looks nothing like that now; do you think we could get a more recent one? 87.244.71.96 05:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Looks like him to me.Theplanetsaturn 05:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I have a more recent one, as mentioned above in 'Picture', but when I tried to upload it it got removed for "incorrect licensing." I'm not too familiar with Wikipedia, but the license is "This guy who took it said right on this page here that we could use it" - if someone can translate that and post the picture above, it would solve the problem. megumi 05:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Like I said earlier, I have no problem with my pictures of Jhonen being used here. I just can't post it here, because I don't have internet at home, which means I don't have time to do crap on the intarweb. So, someone go for it. DreamsofTacos 19:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I've found two recent photos on Flickr with Creative Commons licenses that seem to be compatible with their usage here: 1, 2. Perhaps one or both should be added? MysteriousStranger 20:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Hardcover
I went to the page Rubberducky cited, at Mars Import here. The hardcover is listed as out of stock, and the publisher, Slave Labor Graphics, simply does not list it at the Slave Labor store] nor mention it on the Slave Labor creators' page. Publishers frequently announce books, and even send out art for them, but for one reason or another the book never comes out. Honest to goodness, I have tried to confirm this book's existence, but without it being available to buy, or if sold out there being an ISBN number, there isn't any way to verify that it actually came out. And WP:VERIFY is one of the cardinal rules of Wikipedia.

Look, keep at it. I have no personal stake in this whatsoever. I'm just saying that Wikipedia is very careful about telling us that we can't put in material that can't be verified. If it exists, we can find it. --Tenebrae 01:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * It's listed as out of stock because it's out of print. But it certainly does exist.Theplanetsaturn 03:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * That's great. But I apologize for being unclear. How do you know it exists? An encyclopedia can't just take somebody's word for it.--Tenebrae 03:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * An encyclopedia cannot hamstring itself to the point of absurdity either. I know the book exists because I have a copy. Because I have unpacked boxes of them and I have spoken with the publisher on this matter. If you are overly concerned about veracity of this, you could simply call the listed phone number for the company and ask. Flip through back issues of the Diamond catalog and view the solicitations for the book. Evidence of all things does not, and will not exist on the internet. Websites come and go, with little concern for historic record. That does not mean an encyclopedia should cease listing the facts. Particularly over such a small matter.Theplanetsaturn 03:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Here's something. But I doubt it will last.Theplanetsaturn 04:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

http://www.mothcomix.com/html/BrowseSearch/Results/Artist.asp?prdArtist=V

 * Don't get huffy. And don't ask other people to do research for your claims.

 * "Hamstring to the point of absuridy"? What, an encyclopedia should just take people's words for things? There are pranksters a'plenty who use Wikipedia for fun — go online and read up on some of these things ... The New York Times has even written about it. Nobody has any way of knowing who you are or if you're telling the truth about unpacking boxes, etc. Think about it, and I'm sure you'll see I'm telling the truth.

 * As it happens, the site you provided — that of a reputable dealer offering a rare hardcover book for sale — is a credible source. We can't list it in References or in a footnote because Wikipedia disallows links to commercial sites, but you've convinced me the book exists. Add the hardcover info — I myself will leave it in even without the specific cite. Other editors might not accept that; they may insist on an ISBN, which would be within their rights to do so.

 * Don't mean to take a shot, but I always find it ironic when people say, "Oh, this is a small thing" ... and fight you like it's a big thing! :-) All good here. --Tenebrae 04:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The trick with print is that it lacks intonation. I assure you, nothing in my previous post falls under the designation of huffy. If I were so minded, I would speak plainly of my irritation. With that said...

 * Should an encyclopedia simply "take people's words for things", of course not. And I never suggested they should. But you found evidence entirely suggestive of the existence of the book, and choose to dismiss it. You did not search very deeply for proof, as a simple Google search of "Jhonen" and "hardcover" revealed a picture of the book in question. If you want to discuss reliable journalistic practices, look at your own actions first.

 * And for the record, many SLG books (particularly earlier ones like the book in question) are unlikely to have an isbn number. The inclusion of comics in bookstores is a more modern practice. If that is a necessary criteria, many factual things will be lost in the quagmire of verifiability. So no, I don't think the aforementioned editors would be within their rights at all to casually delete in the manner you suggest. Bare minimum, it would be irresponsible.

 * And yes, it is a small thing. But words are cheap and my alternative would have been a reversion without explanation. Would that actually have been preferable?Theplanetsaturn 04:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * We need a reliable source. It's either leave the warning, or remove the passage altogether. --InShaneee 05:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * This is getting absurd. A cursory search for the title reveals it for sale on eBay. I already pointed to a website that carries it. The source on the article includes a picture of the printed product. The book exists. End of story.Theplanetsaturn 06:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Ebay is not a valid source. A publisher is needed. --InShaneee 06:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I added a reference for the hardcover's existence and availability from a review by Revolution SF. Hope that helps, Theplanetsaturn. Ecto 07:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * In response to Theplanetsaturn:

 * "You did not search very deeply for proof" — because it wasn't my claim. It's every editor's own responsibility to provide confirmable, verifiable documentation for his or her edits. You don't put it off on other people.
 * "you found evidence entirely suggestive of the existence of the book" — and your own word, "suggestive", means it wasn't confirmable. "If you want to discuss reliable journalistic practices..." Please don't quote journalistic ethics to me: That field is how I make my living. Are you a journalist?
 * "many SLG books (particularly earlier ones like the book in question) are unlikely to have an isbn number" — and you know this how? ISBN #s have been in use since the early 1970s. The trade paperback has an ISBN #. A hardcover edition of the same book not having an ISBN # would give any journalist worth his or her salt some doubts.
 * I'll look at Ecto's reference. The fact that another editor, InShaneee, wants to hold Wikipedia to the same standards as a print encyclopedia is valid. To call that kind of care "irresponsible" is just turning logic on its head. --Tenebrae 00:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Tenebrae:

It's unfortunate that I have to spell this out for you.

 * "It wasn't my claim" — Your claim, specifically, was that the book was unavailable for purchase through a simple Google search. That has been shown to be patently false. It is your responsibility to research your claims before you justify the deletion of information with them. You clearly did a poor job of it. Bare minimum, you should have opened this up for discussion here before enacting your deletion.

 * "It's every editor's own responsibility to provide confirmable, verifiable documentation for his or her edits." — And you failed to do so with your edit. You made false claims while ignoring substantial evidence.

 * "Please don't quote journalistic ethics to me" — That field is how I make my living. Are you a journalist?" Nice appeal to authority. There is a reason that is considered a logical fallacy. Regardless, I've been a professional writer for 15 years, and as long as you continue to exhibit a lack of understanding of the principals of journalism, I'll continue to quote journalistic ethics to you. As for your supposed career, who cares? It's your actions here that are relevant, and you made edits justified with patently false claims. This field is how you make your living? Forgive me for finding that difficult to believe..

 * "it wasn't confirmable" — There is a photograph of a physical copy of the book on the Mars Import website. You want to claim that photographic evidence is not worth being considered a form of confirmation, be my guest. But it is plainly a ridiculous claim.

 * "The trade paperback has an ISBN #:" — I already made this clear for you. The trade paperback has continued to be reprinted where the hardcover is an earlier release. The adoption of ISBN #'s is relatively new to the alternative comics industry. SLG rarely used ISBN numbers before 2000, as without a substantial presence in the book market, it was considered an unnecessary expense. End result: an ISBN number cannot be the end all be all of proof for this category. To use your own approach: I know this because it's how I make my living. You call yourself a journalist? Investigate. Seriously. Just try it. It's really not that difficult.

 * "The fact that another editor, InShaneee, wants to hold Wikipedia to the same standards as a print encyclopedia is valid." — Your claim ( and the claim that InShaneee persisted in reiterating) that this book is unavailable for purchase through a Google search, and therefore likely does not exist was obviously incorrect. A simple Google search of the title shows multiple websites where the hardcover edition can be purchased. These websites show copies of the book through photos. Photos taken from multiple perspectives. The same Google search also shows the book for sale on an earlier version of the publishers own website. The book exists. End of story. Insisting on verification past this point is unreasonable and deleting information from the page based on this incorrect information is blatantly irresponsible. But hey, rather than discuss this, why don't you agree to let the matter lie, then run along and tattle once more. Good show Mr. Journalist.Theplanetsaturn 07:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

 * In response to Theplanetsaturn:

 * It wasn't my claim that a hardcover existed, no.
 * RE: "every editor's own responsibility..." One can't prove a negative, that is, the non-existence of a fact. That's a standard in everything from debate class to courtrooms.
 * "Forgive me for finding that difficult to believe." Calling someone a liar is considered a personal attack.
 * A photograph of a book isn't confirmation the book was published or released. Look up Godzilla! The Complete Guide to Moviedom's Mightiest Monster to see picture of a book that was announced and written about, but was never released.
 * RE: The ISBN issue, all you're doing is giving reasons why a released book might not have one. That's not the same as providing verifiable confirmation that a particular book was released.
 * "then run along and tattle once more"? Grownups call it whistleblowing or "reporting something to the authorities". --Tenebrae 22:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Tenebrae:

 * It was your claim that the book was unavailable for purchase through Google. Yes.
 * "That's a standard in everything from debate class to courtrooms." Pay attention please. Or are you unable to keep track of your own claims?
 * "Calling someone a liar is considered a personal attack." Calling someone "huffy" is a personal attack as well. One you indulged in repeatedly. it is inflammatory and unnecessary. Comment on content, not on contributors. You failed ot do this. Your glass house must be chilly indeed.
 * "A photograph of a book isn't confirmation the book was published or released." Multiple copies available for sale, multiple pictures from independent websites, evidence of the books existence can be found in multiple websites. When these facts are considered, one picture is sufficient for proof.
 * "The ISBN issue, all you're doing is giving reasons why a released book might not have one. That's not the same as providing verifiable confirmation that a particular book was released." Pay attention. When did I ever hold up the lack of ISBN number as evidence that this book might exist? I introduced this as something conversational, not as a form of evidence. Strawman argument.
 * "Grownups call it whistleblowing or "reporting something to the authorities". When you act like a grownup, I will treat you like one. You began our exchange with a blatantly condescending manner. You ignored my explanation that you had misinterpreted my tone. You made hypocritical claims on more than one occasion. 23:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)Theplanetsaturn

In response to Tenebrae:

While we are here, lets take a look at your lies, and how they pertain to this discussion, Mr. Journalist. Below is the information you posted about this exchange elsewhere on Wikipedia:

 * "He was reverting two editors, myself and User:InShaneee, even though he wasn't providing a confirmable, verifiable cite for a claim that seemed fishy." A claim that seemed fishy? Really? That's funny. You already agreed that I had found a "reputable" and "credible" source, and that I should re-add the hardcover publication information. Something is fishy here, oh yes. Perhaps it is the stink of your hypocrisy.

 * "On the talk page, he wanted other editors to take his word for the claim." No. I used my word for discussion. I used a site you agreed was both "reputable" and "credible" for the claim.

 * "When two editors tried to explain the need for verifiable content, he got huffy and argumentative." I was quite clear before that if I had indeed been "huffy" you would know. And now you should be all to aware that you have pushed me to the point of ire. If you cannot see the difference, you are a poor judge of character and should rethink your career, Mr. Journalist.

 * "Still, the editor in question made continuous reverts, as cited, all because he couldn't find a valid cite and accused us of somehow being "irresponsible" for asking for one." By all means, in the relevant discussion, show me where I ever claimed you or InShaneee was "irresponsible". Do you understand context, Mr. Journalist? You purposefully misquote me when I point that holding this medium to a criteria not universally utilized would be "irresponsible". To simplify so that you may better understand, If comics do not always use ISBN numbers, and an editor deletes information because no ISBN number can be found, THAT would be an irresponsible act. That is what I said, and you took it entirely and purposefully out of context. Lowest form of reporting right there. You should be ashamed of yourself. But I suspect as you had to go behind my back to make this argument, rather than discuss it with me yourself, you already feel said shame.Theplanetsaturn 08:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

 * In response to Theplanetsaturn:

 * RE: "a claim that seemed fishy" — I said I had trouble with the claim's veracity from the very first posting.
 * RE: "the stink of your hypocrisy" — First, I've placed a template warning on your talk page. Personal attacks and that kind of language are prohibited. Secondly, in the interest of compromise I said only that I was convinced (though I have reservations, clearly); I also said your evidence might not be enough for other editors, as in fact it was not. There's nothing hypocritical in believing personally something exists, and still wanting proof — because my own personal belief doesn't matter.
 * RE: "show me where I ever claimed you or InShaneee was 'irresponsible'." Where you made reference to exactly the kind proof for which I was asking, and said, "Bare minimum, it would be irresponsible" to require that. Nothing's taken out of context.
 * A compromise solution was offered. Compromise is important in conflict resolution. Others would prefer the specificity of trade paperback, you would prefer to mention the hardcover. Saying that the comics were simply collected as a book is a fair compromise.--Tenebrae 23:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Tenebrae:

 * "I said I had trouble with the claim's veracity from the very first posting." Funny. In our discussion in this very section you agreed that the source was credible and reputable. Without further discussion, you labeled it in your act of reporting me as "fishy". This is why I call your position hypocritical. Because these two arguments do not match.
 * "Where you made reference to exactly the kind proof for which I was asking" I should not have to keep track of your arguments for you. You asked for an ISBN as a POSSIBLE source of proof. You also asked for an alternative, a website the book could be purchased through. As we had already come to an accord on this issue, it should be implicit due to context that I was not talking about you, but about the supposed editors who would ONLY accept an ISBN. So please pay attention in the future. Because if you ACTUALLY take the time to both read and comprehend the discussion, you will see I clearly made no such charge of you or InShaneee. Again, you failed to take context into proper consideration, and instead overreacted and misreported my actual words to moderation.
 * "*A compromise solution was offered." I never said it was an unreasonable compromise. I said it should be discussed here first, BEFORE making such changes. As this is an obviously contentious issue, that would be the reasonable and responsible order of events.Theplanetsaturn 01:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Theplanetsaturn, you are advised to calm down and treat other editors with respect. This means stop making Personal Attacks. If you don't stop, you will find yourself blocked more and more. So just give it up, relax, live and let live a little, and edit cooperatively. Please. Hu 02:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I began this exchange with respect. In return, I was met with condescending manner, my words taken completely out of context, incorrect intent behind my posts attributed repeatedly despite clarification, my opinions on the topic dismissed through a fallacious appeal to authority, and my attempts at reasonable discussion ignored in favor of a moderation report. Respect comes from both directions, and Tenebrae has acted in an inflammatory manner from the inception of our dialog. So no, I will continue to return his unwarranted attacks with the derision they are due. If he ceases his behavior, I will be more than happy to return to the civil discussion that he aborted through his blatant misconceptions.Theplanetsaturn 02:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Know that any more of this abusive behavior, here or anywhere else, will result in the temporary removal of your editing privileges. This is simply not allowed under any circumstances. --InShaneee 03:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you should have considered the rules before you began blanking information agreed upon through consensus without a word of proper discussion on the talk page.Theplanetsaturn 03:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Tenebrae:

 * Tenebrae: "Where you made reference to exactly the kind proof for which I was asking, and said, "Bare minimum, it would be irresponsible" to require that. Nothing's taken out of context."

I felt this required reexamination, as you managed to miscomprehend it so horribly. You claim I referred to you and your motives as "irresponsible". Let's take a look at what was actually said, rather than what you imagined. Keep in mind, this is after you had already agreed the source I provided was sufficient for your tastes:

 * Tenebrae: "Other editors might not accept that; they may insist on an ISBN, which would be within their rights to do so."
 * Theplanetsaturn: "(as not all published books will have an ISBN number)I don't think the aforementioned editors would be within their rights at all to casually delete in the manner you suggest. Bare minimum, it would be irresponsible."

 * Tenebrae: "Still, the editor in question made continuous reverts, as cited, all because he couldn't find a valid cite and accused us of somehow being "irresponsible" for asking for one."

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you understand the basics of the English language. To understand what the qualifier "other", that you supplied means, and what the qualifier "aforementioned", that I supplied, means. Which leaves the probability that you purposefully misunderstood my words, and purposfully reported my words out of context. I never accused you of being irresponsible. Not once. If you still don't understand the roots of our conflict, take another look at the above exchange. Read it closely. And when you're done, take responsibility for your own ill conceived, unnecessary and inflammatory moderation report. With that, hopefully we can put an end to this.Theplanetsaturn 03:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Book format
At the recommendation of Admin Luna Santin at Personal attack intervention noticeboard is a Request for Comment regarding dispute about the publishing format(s) of the book Johnny the Homicidal Maniac.

 * Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

 * "Vasquez's first comic, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, ran for seven issues and was collected as invisible embedded comment: no hardcover appears on Google for sale, Slave Labor Graphics doesn't list or mention a hardcover, and no ISBN can be found end invisible embedded commenta trade paperback book, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac: Director's Cut". -- Tenebrae 01:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * "Vasquez's first comic, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, ran for seven issues and was collected as a hardcover and a trade paperback book, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac: Director's Cut". -- Theplanetsaturn 04:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Comments
 * "Vasquez's first comic, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, ran for seven issues and was collected as the book Johnny the Homicidal Maniac: Director's Cut". -- Compromise added by User:69.22.254.111 with this edit summary: "compromise solution, problem solved. Now you boys play nice. When mature people compro[mi]se, no one gets all they want, but everyone gets something they can live with."

 * Tenebrae notes books can be announced and art sent out for books eventually unreleased. Theplanetsaturn notes that the evidence provided is sufficient. User:69.22.254.111 believes he split the difference. Request comments by additional, outside editors per WP:RfD guidelines. --Tenebrae 03:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Tenebrae: "A compromise solution was offered." Again (and for the record), I never said it was an unreasonable compromise. I said it should be discussed here first, BEFORE making such changes. As this is an obviously contentious issue, that would be the reasonable and responsible order of events.Theplanetsaturn 05:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Honestly, I think here the fault falls with neither of the "offending" parties, but with Wikipedia's policies of what qualifies as a valid source. Apparently, photographs and offers for sale of existing books (I say existing because I have held the book in my hands, contemplated buying the book when it was still available, etc) are not valid for sourcing. Neither, as seen previously on this discussion page, is video of the creator and publisher of the book saying it was nearly nominated for an Eisner but missed out - because the video is on youtube. Neither party is wrong here. User:Tenebrae is trying to uphold Wiki's policy; User:Theplanetsaturn is frustrated that under that policy, a book's existance can be called into question when there is plenty of evidence that it does, indeed, exist. I respect that Wikipedia wants to remain a reliable source of information, but there is a point where it becomes ridiculous to not accept certain evidence as valid - and I mean this simply as an observation, not as a slight on anyone or anything.
 * That having been said, I believe that the compromise by User:69.22.254.111 is a reasonable one. Rubberducky 1:29, 14 December 2006 (EST)

Hello everyone. It has been requested that I review and comment on this discussion as a neutral third party. Based on what I've read above, it looks like everyone here has Wikpiedia's best interests at heart; no one is at fault for wanting to uphold our verifiability policies. The hardcover edition of this book appears to be somewhat rare — not found on Abebooks, AddALL, Amazon.com, or the Library of Congress — but does appear to be verifiably available for purchase from their primary distributor, Slave Labor Graphics, listed (but out of stock) at Mars Import , and has recently sold on EBay for $60 and change. I believe there is sufficient verifiable evidence to mention the hardbound version, namely the Slave Labor Graphics link, but it would be most ideal if we could obtain an ISBN number as well, if one was ever associated with the item. Hope that helps, Can't sleep, clown will eat me 07:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I put in a reference to a Revolution SciFi review of JTHM that states that the book is available in hardcover, but that was removed. That citation, plus the reference from Slave Labor, should be enough to back up a mention of the hardcover in the article. Knowing that the book exists, I can understand the frustration involved in this dispute, but I also understand the desire to follow Wikipedia's guidelines to the letter. Hopefully these references will satisfy both parties. As far as I can see, the hardcover has never had an ISBN. Slave Labor will add one if they ever reprint that version, though. Ecto 08:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I own the hardcover, and yes, it is rare. When I go home for the holidays, I will try to find it and extract whatever details other editors request. --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 09:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Comment - I can't believe I was asked to comment on this inane argument. Almost as much as I can't believe that I bothered to post this. --JerryOrr 12:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment — I can't believe I'm responding to you. --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 00:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. ;-)  Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, all, enormously. Theplanetsaturn made the consensus change, I updated it from an inline link to a footnote and link, and the planet and the darkness, so to speak, are aligned and all is well under Heaven. That type of pitching in and discussion is what helps make Wikipedia editing worthwhile. I'm sure my new colleague would agree, and let me extend a hand to say we both let off some steam, but that's in the past, and I look forward to working together in the Comics Project. Happy Wiki-ing! --Tenebrae 01:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Glad we could come to an agreement on this, Tenebrae. Thank you for holding the consensus. For the record, I have looked at the other work you've done in comics on Wikipedia, and you do good work. Apologies for my unkind words.Theplanetsaturn 02:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Comment I was also requested to comment ... sorry, I'm just an Invader Zim fan, don't know much about JTHM. -- ProveIt (talk) 01:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm curious as to why the publisher selling the book here is not enough verification of the existence of the book. There have to be plenty of books listed in wikpedia that were never given ISBN numbers. Murderbike 02:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The book was available on the previous version of their website, but not as clearly as it is currently. SLG just overhauled the website and the link you provide did not exist at the time of the debate.Theplanetsaturn 02:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

 * So the hardcover note could be re-added? Murderbike 02:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Removed pronunciation
Removed guide to pronouncing his name; it appeared to be incorrect, based on his television interview. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.35.94.119 (talk) 11:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Pronunciation
There seems to be a demand for a pronunciation guide. I think the tradition on Wikipedia when such things are needed follows a kind of international standard. Anyone know how to render the name in such a way (instead of "JOE-nen" "JOAN-en" etc. as usually attempted? This is, I think, a bit informal for an encyclopedia article.) --76.18.93.72 (talk) 06:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

IPA was what I was thinking of -- International Phoenetic Alphabet. I think Jhonen gets spelled something like ɖʒonɛn. Now does anyone know the definite pronunciation for his surname? I know of 3 different versions -- voss-kez, vass-kez and vass-kwez, and it's unclear which he prefers. --76.18.93.72 (talk) 03:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

 * It's JOE-NEN VAS-KEZ. Just do a YouTube video search, etc.

Official Homepage
Should we perhaps remove the link to his official homepage for now? It's just a link to his Livejournal, which we're already linking to.--209.243.31.233 02:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Has Jhonen said what equipment he uses in his comics?
St. Scolex April 10, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by St. Scolex (talk • contribs) 00:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I think he mentioned that he experimented with brushes in an issue of Squee, but that's it. I'd imagine he uses the standard comic making tools like pens, pencils, brushes, and sometimes Photoshop. I don't think it's important to the article to list what tools he uses though, unless he had an extremely unique method. Ash Loomis

Great job adding that new photo of JV.
ST. SCOLEX, 10/22/07

Great job adding the new photo of Jhonen, whoever did. It's great. I like his little seal ghost puppet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.120.81.226 (talk) 23:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Jellyfist?
I've not gotten my hands on a copy of Jellyfist, but could somebody please start or submit content for a Jellyfist article? 75.130.107.71 (talk) 00:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Was done, however, article was deleted for being unimportant --76.18.93.72 (talk) 05:12, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Mindless Self Indulgence Video
This article links to supposedly the official video of MSI's Shut Me Up. Unfortunately, the link does not go to the official video, but a fan-edited one (if I am not mistaken). The original is distinct in the fact that it never switches between shots of the store clerk and the band, it's 100% the store clerk. Can anybody provide a link to the original, or at least specify in the article that that is not the official music video? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.111.63 (talk) 23:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

You're mistaken. The video was edited by the band themselves, but was still of course directed by Vasquez. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.115.141.189 (talk) 19:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup and Tone
Theoretically any article on Wikipedia should read like a formal encyclopedia entry, and so, this article needs the tone and such to be tweeked a bit. First of all, it's either "Jhonen Vasquez" or "Vasquez" -- never just "Jhonen" unless it's in a quote from elsewhere. Also perhaps the Style and Comics sections should be at least partially merged. --76.18.93.72 (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I shifted some things around myself, so I think it's okay to get rid of the cleanup part. The formal tone could be better however.--Sobekneferu (talk) 20:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Went ahead and moved the Cleanup notice to the TV section. At this point it looks like the kinks have been pretty much worked out of the rest of the article, but the Television section reads a little poorly and could use some work. (I also notice it's often one of the more frequently updated and altered sections, which might have something to do with it.) --76.18.93.72 (talk) 08:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Bloody GIR
"It was also cancelled because of the few images thrown in on certain frames of certain episodes. The picture contained the "Gir" robot covered in blood. This was thrown in there because of of Nickelodeon's guidelines which included no blood. He did this to tick Nickelodeon off because he didn't like the guidelines"

While not many people will dispute that Bloody GIR did exist, can anyone really verify that it was a cause of the show's cancellation?--76.18.93.72 (talk) 02:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

What is Hypnophobia?
clicking the link takes you to the phobia page.. which doesn't have a listing for hypnophobia. either we should remove the link or someone who can edit should update the phobia page. Or maybe just tell me what it is in this article. Otherwise it's pretty useless -- The Wolfkin71.56.0.82 (talk) 04:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

.....Gay?
I thought Vasquez was openly gay. I've heard it lots of different places over the years, too. Umm.. whats the story on that? --98.232.180.37 (talk) 04:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

 * "I've heard it lots of places" doesn't mean anything. Rumors about famous people, especially concerning their sexuality, are incredibly prevalent; however, they are still just rumors. megumi (talk) 06:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Yep, and you said the same thing about Clay Aiken and Adam Lambert. Oops you. --98.232.181.201 (talk) 20:12, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

 * First, I haven't said anything about either one of them. Second, there is a bit of a difference between "I heard it somewhere" and an interview that a famous person gives directly to a reputable magazine, or on a TV show, or whatever. Third, anyone can start a rumor about X person being gay and it will pop up all over; that doesn't make it true (although, inevitably, it sometimes is). Isn't the point of being openly gay that you say it yourself?98.209.139.1 (talk) 02:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In the intros to his work, his Twitter account, etc. he has only ever mentioned having girlfriends. --68.35.11.25 (talk) 22:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Yeah, not on your LIFE is he gay---ever catch the 80 million hints here and there ALL throughout his work? In addition to his work, here are some excerpts from somewhere not in a grocery store:

From Revolution SF Chat Transcript:

''ShaneIvey: Do you like getting creative input from fans? Show ideas, story ideas, that kind of thing? Does it ever happen? JhnenV: Hmm..fanfic stuff? JhnenV: They have some pretty twisted ideas, some that I've seen. JhnenV: I don't know if it'd be wise to go with a lot of what they come up with. JhnenV: They have ZIM and Dib falling in love ideas. JhnenV: That makes me ill. ShaneIvey: So I've heard... JhnenV: ill to my belly. JhnenV: My ill-prone belly.''

Not only that, but, all throughout his livejournal and mindspill entries, you will find references to him having dated GIRLS. In an Invader ZIM commentary, for Game Slave 2, some of the guys tease Jhonen about the Battery Tower clerk chick looking like one of his girlfriends.

And the list of references goes on. If people want to have a problem with someone, and can't find a juicy enough one, they'll MAKE one. Boredom? Possession by malevolent spirits? YOU decide.

Not that anyone really cares about YOUR opinion, per se.

JCV redirect
Um, I hate to start a whole thing because it's clear this article is very carefully watched by this person's fans, but is there any reason to have a redirect for "JCV" to this article? Is it meaningful other than just being this guy's initials? It's not like everyone else on Wikipedia, including people who have more notability than this person, has a redirect from their initials. Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.87.161 (talk) 14:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a convention for comic book artists to sign their artwork with their initials. Vasquez signs all of his either "JCV" or "JV".Ecto (talk) 02:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Gir Show?
Yes, let me sound very tedious and obessed, but I heard from a friend of mine that there was a 'Gir Show' in process, and it was coming on air soon. I know the "on air soon" is probably wrong, but what about the 'Gir Show'? Yes, what sense would it make for Gir to star in a show by himself without Zim, but, still, his popularity is very great, so I could see someone making it for money purposes. ;) [A kindly explained debate is always appreciate. :D] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.221.140 (talk) 00:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

There are no plans for anything like a GIR show made by Jhonen Vasquez. He's been trying to distance himself from the show invader zim since it was cancelled because Viacom screwed him over by refusing him royalties to all invader zim merchandise. I doubt viacom would try to make anything like a GIR show without him because while they were still making it, invader zim was primarily a production of Jhonen from the scripts to the character ideas. His staffs job was mainly voice acting, animation, and working things out with the FCC. Without Jhonen they wouldn't be able to recreate GIR without making it obvious things weren't the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.131.11.95 (talk) 14:46, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

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Eneter zim
I started Draft:Invader Zim: Enter the Florpus dose anyone want to help?Fanoflionking 22:57, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Kite + Kill Bill + BNL
What? What?! First, why are these 3 movies all piled into one category. Second, source?!?! I can't find any evidence he worked on any of these movies. Is this a troll edit? 2604:6000:150F:4A3E:6546:C762:189A:9EC3 (talk) 08:17, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

2775-man
this title is listed in his filmography but theres no reference and i couldn’t find any info about it anywhere if anyone knows what this is could they add a bit about it in his career section 75.111.23.160 (talk) 06:23, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Mexican-American, or just American?
The article says he was born in America and makes no reference to his obtaining Mexican citizenship or being born to Mexican parents, so on what basis is he described as "Mexican-American"? The article cited, in www.vice.com just describes him as "Mexican-American" quite casually, with no explanation. I would suggest describing him as American until a better citation comes along. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 06:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Jhonen Vasquez


text:
1998 Governor General's Awards

The winners of the 1998 Governor General's Literary Awards were announced by Jean-Louis Roux, Chairman, and Shirley L. Thomson, Director of the Canada Council for the Arts on November 17 in Ottawa. Each winner received a cheque for $10,000.

title: 1998 Governor General's Awards


text:
Eddie Santiago

Eddie Santiago (born Eduardo Santiago Rodríguez, August 18, 1955) is a salsa singer from Puerto Rico. He is one of the great figures of this musical genre, with popular songs such as “Me Haces Falta Tú" on Soy el Mismo, “Lluvia" on Sigo Atrevido, “Mía" on Invasión de la Privacidad y “Tú me quemas" on Atrevido y diferente.

Early years
At a young age, Santiago demonstrated great love for salsa music. He performed with several groups, including Generación 2000, Orquesta La Potente, Orquesta Opus, and the Orquesta Saragüey.

Musical career
Santiago's career took off in 1986 in Puerto Rico and the rest of Latin America as a soloist, forming his own band, and recording songs including: "Tú me quemas" ("You Burn Me"), "Qué Locura Enamorarme de Ti" ("What Madness To Fall in Love With You"), "Me Fallaste" ("You Failed Me"), Antidoto y Veneno ("Antidote and Venom"), "Tu Me Haces Falta" ("I Miss You"), his best known hit "Lluvia" ("Rain", not to be confused with Menudo's hit of the same name), and many others. His fame eventually spread to Europe and the United States, making him one of the most popular salsa singers in the late 1980s and early 1990s. He was one of the main singers of "salsa romántica" ("romantic salsa"). His first major recording on an international label was with Sony Music in 1999. He also recorded for the TH, EMI Latin, and Polygram labels, including the well regarded production inspired by the music of Rafael Hernández, entitled Enamorado.

In 1999, he released Celebration: Epic Duets. He was joined on that album by other stars in the Latin music scene, Víctor Manuelle, Huey Dunbar and Elvis Crespo. The album was named one of the best recordings of 1999 by the National Foundation for Popular Culture.

Santiago has earned both gold and platinum records, along with other awards.

2004 to present
In 2004, Eddie Santiago announced a return to commercial music, with his new CD, Despues del Silencio (After the Silence), a title that alludes to the long period since his previous CD was released.

He was nominated for the Salsa/Merengue Album of the Year in the 2006 Grammy Awards.

His song "Black is Black" was included on the Nacho Libre movie soundtrack.

Discography

 * 1986 - Atrevido y Diferente
 * 1987 - Sigo Atrevido
 * 1988 - Invasión de la Privacidad
 * 1989 - New Wave Salsa
 * 1990 - El Rey de la Salsa Romántica
 * 1991 - Soy el Mismo
 * 1993 - Intensamente
 * 1993 - Cada Vez, Otra Vez
 * 1995 - Eddie Santiago
 * 1996 - De Vuelta a Casa
 * 1997 - Enamorado
 * 1999 - Celebracion: Epic Duets
 * 2001 - Ahora
 * 2004 - Interpreta los Grandes Éxitos de Luis Ángel
 * 2004 - Después del Silencio
 * 2006 - En Su Estilo... Romántico y Sensual

title: Eddie Santiago