text:
User talk:Baldhur/archive

Note: My original user name was Cordpyh, so don't be confused by the name change.

See User talk:Baldhur for newer messages

Hello there Cordyph, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you ever need editing help visit How does one edit a page and experiment at Sandbox. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. BTW, nice work on the biology articles. Cheers! --maveric149

 * Hi there. Welcome to the place. I see you've got the hang of things; good idea making punt into a disambiguation page. -- Tarquin 12:17 Sep 21, 2002 (UTC)

 * Hi, I noticed you're uploading some maps for the districts of Schleswig-Holstein. I've been doing similar for some US states (California, Nevada...). Just a couple suggestions: the JPEG compression makes the hard edges a little funky-looking; you'll get a cleaner image if you save the files as PNG, which is better optimized for line-art drawings. Also, the 400-pixel width is perhaps a bit big for users running at low resolutions or with browser windows smaller than their whole screen. I'd recommend shrinking them down to the 200-250 range, maybe 300 at the most; or else un-floating them so the text doesn't have to wrap around the giant picture. In any case, thanks for your work -- a map is worth a thousand words in making articles about geographical locations useful and appealing! --Brion 21:27 Oct 2, 2002 (UTC)

About zero-length uploads... I don't think I've encountered this in particular, but I do know the upload system is a little more fragile than it should be, and tends to tell you "Success!" without really checking. It's possible that your connection got broken somehow, and the whole file didn't get written; just upload it again and it should be okay... --Brion 18:33 Oct 4, 2002 (UTC)

Hello Cordyph, I've seen that you uploaded some coats of arms of German cities. Where have you got them? It would be nice if you could mail them to me (elian (at) gmx.li) as a zip or tar-file, so we can use them in the German wikipedia, too. --Elian

Hi, Cordyph. My name's Ed, and I'm one of the most frequent contributors to Wikipedia. I specialize in acquainting newcomers with our policies and facilitating a collegial atmosphere of cooperation.

I like the way you handled the dispute with Mirsa over History of Israel. You correctly pointed out that my advice wasn't to put the charge of ethnic cleansing into the first sentence of the article although I did suggest that it should be covered in it (somewhere). --Ed Poor

Hi, Cordyph. Just a minute ago I was busy changing names and redirecting the Anderlecht articles. All of a sudden I saw other things change and the recent changes showed you were doing exactly the same thing. Actually I've lost track of what is changed now... I hope things are complete now. And thanks for the help. Dhum Dhum 14:18 Nov 28, 2002 (UTC)

I don't know if you're sympathetic to this cause, but I need support in trying to keep football at football. They want to move it to soccer, please see talk:list of footballers. Mintguy 10:19 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC) --- Hi, Mirko! (Is this a popular German name? Sounds very Slavonic, Czech, Serbian or maybe Lusatian). I did my best in convincing Taw. When I was talking about Frankfurt, of course I didn't mean the one in Hessen but the other one, You know, on the that river with two names. From Rhine to Ural? From Dniestr to Laba (Elbe) would be more like it. And please understand the Polish point of view: the German irredentists - Heimatvertriebene, Jung Landsmannschafte Ostpreussen and other "Teutonic Knights" want to claim from 50 to 80% of current Polish lands. If Poles just stick to reasonable historical arguments and desperately try to convince the world about their rights to the Recovered Lands, then between the lines they acknowledge that the issue is a subject to discussion. It's not! That's why current Polish strategy is to come up with equally absurd and ridiculous claims from their part. "You want Silesia - well, we want Lusatia (Lautzen/Luzice) with the old Polish cities of Misnia (Meissen), Budziszyn (Bautzen) and Chociebuz (Cottbus)! You want Pomerania - well, we want Pomorze Zaodrzanskie (Vorpommern) with the old Polish cities of Wologoszcz (Wolgast) and Strzalowo (Strelitz). You write about Kaliningrad/Koenigsberg - well it's Kaliningrad/Krolewiec for You, You pickelhaube wearing, kulturkampf Preussener, You!" Me, I don't take any part in it actively. But I see that change as something better than the previuos way of reasoning. I can send You some funny posters and bumper stickers, and we can both laugh about them. Take care, Mirko! Space Cadet 14:59 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC) ---

Hi Cordyph,

the border did not border the flag only but extended to the right until the edge of the screen: +-+ | flag                   | +-+ which did not look very nice. I see your point at the moment in the factsheet on Hesse, the table is wider than the flag is. I added a small black border to the image itself, I think this looks better than before. BTW, the flags you upload, do you have them available as PNG or GIF? JPEG looks a little bit ugly when used for flags or maps. -- JeLuF

What platform are you working on? There are simple PNG-aware programs available for free on most platforms. -- JeLuF

Thank you for your notice about Trakai. Actually I have got a written permission by email from the Trakai Town Hall officials and they grant free use of all their textual information on their site. How I have to make remark about this grant on that page in wiki style? Teach me - I have started contributing only yesterday :)))) //Darius Mazeika

Hi Cordyph - when you move a page to a new location, could you use the "Move this page" link rather than cutting and pasting? That way, all old version of the page are moved as well, so they're all kept in one place. Cheers --Camembert (by the way, I moved Nurburgring to Nürburgring rather than Nuerburgring - it's much more familiar that way, I think)

I noticed you're a bit slow with adding the maps to the districts you work on. If you don't mind I can create the maps for you, I usually finish them in a minute thanks to your templates. And I think the ones I created look a little bit better with the more smooth scaling. So if you don't mind you can focus on the text, while I do the maps for you - and if you continue alphabetically I can even prepare them so you can add them in your first edit already. Of course I will continue to write district texts myself as well. andy 13:20 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC)

Hi Cordyph, regarding deletions: The rules propose that you should only delete vandalisms or newbie experiments without adding to Votes for Deletion. So I think you shouldn't delete the images yourself. -- JeLuF

Thanks for pictures. Are they Thorburn?jimfbleak 18:44 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

As I just seen on the german wikipedia the map of Rhineland-Palatinate with the district numbers is wrong - there is no district "Primasens", that is identical with Suedwestpfalz, thus all numbers above 19 are off by one. But as the map seems already scaled down from a higher resolution one I think it's best if you redo it. Also note that you forgot to add the number for Germersheim (district). andy 14:42 May 3, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for suggesting me to sysop status. I hesitated so far to apply for it, as it will one make my status as Wikipediholic more severe - but also because I prefer to spend the time on writing articles then to read administrative stuff on the mailing list. But if it's not much to follow there I might do the next step. andy 22:11 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hallo! You might want to take a look at Talk:Dithmarschen. In all friendlyness! -- Ruhrjung 07:57 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I am afraid that there are at least two current uses of †. Kingturtle uses it as a footnote indicator, to avoid cluttering the important first sentence with derivations, Tannin and I use it taxoboxes to link to parallel groups, eg in gannet to link to booby, the other part of the family Sulidae. Not very helpful I'm afraid. ---jimfbleak 15:02 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Cordyph, just asking why my "pronunciation guide" to Bremen was removed. You live in Germany so you know that BRE rhymes with clay but remember that most of the English Wikipedia's readers are not aware of German pronunciation. Perhaps it could have been improved but I don't think it should have been removed. Your comments? PS I put those four pics of Bremen on, I went there when I was working for British Aerospace Adrian Pingstone 13:47 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Message for you at User talk:Arpingstone. Adrian Pingstone 08:17 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Don't forget to probe a writer you feel a dislike for: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=Ruhrjung

The degree of seriousness or queerness is often easily detected. -- Ruhrjung 12:11 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. I never said, that I have a dislike for you. We just had some disagreement. My dislike is reserved for other persons ;-) Don't worry about that -- Cordyph 12:33 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Please claify. Why is my illustration of a woodpecker finch "inappropriate?" MB 14:43 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Nice Motmot picture. As it happens, I'd just done a species list for motmots (what are the chances of that?), so I've added that, and I might be able to put a little more text later. In the taxobox, I'd be inclined to delink the genus names, at least until species articles are written jimfbleak 13:15 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * thanks for tip Jim

thanks for message - I actually picked it up from recent changes, and i've already started raiding the store! Jim

Nice work with the bird picture uploads, Cordyph. Better pictures = better articles, in my book. Cheers, Tannin

Hi, if I post a picture of a bird and a description of its habitat, do you think you'd be able to identify it? Or could you point me to someone that could/would? Koyaanis Qatsi 13:47 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * ok, thanks. :-)  Koyaanis Qatsi

 * I posted the image on Jim's talk page. Thanks for looking.  Koyaanis Qatsi 14:45 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

OK, done 265 or so. There are some left, but I think some of them are useful the way they are. -- JeLuF 10:12 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Nice work on Felidae, Cordyph. Much improved. Tannin

Hmmmm ... Good queston. My wonderful big mammal book has a bit of an each-way bet - they clasify it as Felis (Puma) concolor! But, on the whole, they seem to think that many of the cats will soon be reclassified into a total of 8 genera, and that the Puma group (Puma and Jaguarundi) will be one of them: i.e., that Puma will become the standard. It's quite recent (2001) and edited by a bit of a who's who of mammologists, so I tend to trust it. Toss a coin, and take away the number you first thought of, I guess. Welcome to taxonomy! :) Tannin

Speed is just a question of choosing the right tools: Mozilla 1.4, tabbed browsing, load tabs in background, mouse gestures, edit wiki by doubleclicking and marking the right words for cut&paste. The only problem was the slowdown of wikipedia when saving more than 10 pages simultaneously ... -- JeLuF 17:09 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I see you are back doing cats again tonight. Great! I've just spent a few hours trying to impose some uniformity and decent layout on some of the existing articles, and adding a new one, Clouded Leopard which (I discovered part-way through) had already got a stub last year but under the scientific name so that no-one knew it was there. I figure I've got time for one more new one before I hit the sack. Are there any missing species accounts that you think ought to be first priority? Or will I just pick one at random? Tannin (BTW, if by any chance you would rather I cleared out and left you to do the cats your own way, just say the word - I have a million interests and could just as happily do another bird entry or more rodents.)

Thanks for tip. I'm not getting much done at present (real world work), but I'll follow up when I can, jimfbleak

No, I entered them all directly. I figured I needed something to numb my brain. :) I would think there would be a conversion program somewhere but I didn't bother to look for one today. - Hephaestos 21:14, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * 2.5 hours, judging from my contributions list :) Interesting experience, as I don't know a word of Russian.  The site where I found the lyrics had them on a gif, so I wouldn't have been able to copy and paste anyway. - Hephaestos 21:36, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome (User_talk:Kitwe). I've been snooping around for about a month and finally felt like I had something I had. See you around.

See Votes for deletion about US Navy articles. Rmhermen 03:48, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

"draught top" as in the head on beer? LDan 19:20, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Göttingen CoA
Hi Cordyph,

the way I remember the coat of arms, it used to be red/yellow, not red/brown. I found a really ugly CoA on the district's website, very poor quality JPEG version, but it shows the colours as red/yellow, too. -- JeLuF 20:14, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * I already wondered where those coats are from, whether you have found some central repository or such. I will ask friends in Goettingen whether they have a printed version of the Coat that they might scan. -- JeLuF 14:07, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Hmm, you may be right. I dunno, I think I'm an immediatist, or whatever the word is... :-) You could protect Saddam Hussein for a bit, since you've not been involved in that... Evercat 13:40, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Silesia / Nazi-glorifying revisionism
Please consider the spelling of Goerlitz / Görlitz. As Görlitz actually belongs to Germany, the German spelling ought to be preferred unless the oe-spelling dominates in English.

You might also want to see the bottom of Talk:Silesia --Ruhrjung 08:13, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Yes, I changed the spelling. I was not really engaged in the Silesia article, but I was on a trip reverting every edit by user 80.213.x.x (also known as User:Heine or User:Pius). This annoying troll appears to be interested in making waves by making his revisionist edits. But I will have a look at the article now. -- Cordyph 08:21, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I know the problem of manual auto-reverting also by personal experience. ...and unfortunately I also know the 80.213.x.x-troll. regards!

As I've experienced it, there is a particular kind of stubbornness thriving in the wastelands of Norway and Finland. I would rather assume User:Heine to suffer from that condition, than from Nazi-glorifying revisionism, but... maybe I've been spared his worst contributions. --Ruhrjung 08:27, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * He begins to become a big problem. He keeps many identities and always makes the same edits without really knowing about anything he writes. He even called Krakow a German city. I was called a "Polish nationalist" by him - rather funny ;-) Anyhow, I begin to feel tired about this. We all have better things to do than fighting this idiot. -- Cordyph 08:48, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Polish Corridor
Thanks for your help with Oder-Neisse line - the same person/people is causing trouble over at Polish Corridor - could you help out please. PMelvilleAustin 16:21, Oct 20, 2003 (UTC)

 * Hi, I will have a look at the article tomorrow. -- Cordyph 20:50, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Umlauts
I noticed that a lot of articles on German cities and districts are or were located under the Umlaut-free versions of their names (e.g. Mölln at Moelln, Lüchow-Dannenberg at Luechow-Dannenberg). Since you are apparently responsible for a lot of them, could you tell me wether there is a specific reason for that? - Sandman 19:03, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Yes, I can. When I began editing Wikipedia in 2002, the software was not able to retrieve article titles with umlauts. This changed sometime in late 2002 or early 2003, and so I asked on the mailing list, if it should be okay to create titles containg umlauts now. (See http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-June/004158.html for the thread). There was no definite answer, and we have still no convention on this, but now I think, that it is a good idea to change these articles to titles containing umlauts. I will do so in the future as well. Just a request: If you should create further articles with umlauts, please consider creating a redirect without as well. For example, if you should be interested in creating an article about the Rhön, create a redirect Rhoen pointing there as well. So we can avoid the parallel emerging of both articles (which already had happened for Ruegen, Rügen, before it was corrected). -- Cordyph 20:56, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the information. - Sandman 14:50, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Polish city names
Thanks mate i'l back down on this issue - it just feels weird to me using names which weren't used in the period being talked about (i changed all the pre-1975 references from East Timor to Portuguese Timor in the History of East Timor article for that reason)

PMelvilleAustin 15:13, Oct 24, 2003 (UTC)

Silesia
There was a misunderstanding (reproduced below), but it's all cleared up now. I'm putting it here, for the record. -- Ed Poor

From admin request page
 * Cordyph violated his neutrality and took sides in an edit war on Silesia by protecting the page (reverting to the other side's version) as soon as I changed it; he didn't do anything to prevent the other side from editing it before. Can some other sysop please revert this to the last stable version (Aug 14) or unprotect it. --Wik 14:40, Oct 24, 2003 (UTC)
 * Copied from my answer on Talk:Silesia: Look at the edit history of Silesia: Before my revert I did not edit this page, so I was NEVER involved in this edit war. Instead of that I tried to help the combattants finding a compromise. Afterwards the discussion restarted. There is no sense in having pages with an edit history full of reverts. By the way: If you seriously claim, that I am protecting Nico, you must be blinded. I have no sympathy at all for his ideology. I simply reverted to a version, that was intended as a basis of discussion. -- Cordyph 14:47, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. User:Wik vandalized the page. He has not been willing to discuss any edit he has made, and opposite the other users, he has declared (and showed) that he not will make a compromise. Cordyph reverted to a quite neutral version by User:Ruhrjung, instead of Wik's ridiculous, belitteling, stupid anti-German version. Nico 17:39, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * Note that the version (with minor differences) Cordyph protected has during the last days been protected already three times by three admins because of User:Wik's vandalism.
 * Addendum: Cordyph now called me "completely hopping mad" on another user's talk page. I am not responding in kind to such insults, but I will expose them here, though I know it's unlikely it will actually lead to a de-adminship. --Wik 17:53, Oct 24, 2003 (UTC)
 * So? Cordyph is just telling the truth. -- Nico 18:02, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * My impression is that the users fighting over the article Cordyph was helping with, are more interesting in fighting each other than in making a neutral article. I'm also going to predict that Jimbo will not de-op Cordyph over this dispute. He was intervening in good faith, whether or not he "technically" broke a rule. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". --Uncle Ed 18:17, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * I invite anyone to look at the history of the article. Ruhrjung, I and even caius2 and szopen are trying to find a compromise. We have all modified our positions a lot, I think. However, User:Wik is only reverting and reverting, and is not willing to discuss the case. He has declared that he not will make a compromise. I will suggest that User:Wik should be banned if he not stop this. Nico 18:29, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * He may have acted in good faith. But calling someone "completely hopping mad" is an insult that should be apologized for at the minimum. - Mashburn
 * I object. He is right. Nico 18:29, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * No, I am not. I was really enraged. You will see, that I made my edit on Ruhrjung's talk page just a few minutes after Wik's call for my de-adminship. So I apologise for my words, but I don't apologise for the page protection. It was, what several users had called for, and the version of Ruhrjung was apparently a version, that was accepted as a basis for discussion. I will now completely keep out of the Silesia article. My mediation is apparently not wanted. The discussion at this place is a proof, that Wik and Nico are not interested in achieving a compromise, so I give up. -- Cordyph 19:31, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * All right. I believe you acted in good faith, you just didn't check out the issue properly. I never protested the protection, just your revertion to Ruhrjung's version, which I never accepted as a basis for discussion. But meanwhile Ed has reverted to a neutral version, so that matter is settled. I withdraw my request for de-adminship. If there are no further comments, the Cordyph section on this page can be deleted. --Wik 20:07, Oct 24, 2003 (UTC)
 * This is not correct. You may find a link to my first version of October 9 at Talk:Silesia/Archive1, and you will see that I have modified my position a lot, and that I have invited Wik to discuss his edits, and that I am highly interested in a compromise. But User:Wik has declared that he not will make a compromise, and he has not modified his position überhaupt. He is reverting every edit both I and Ruhrjung is making, and even caius2 has been reverted without discussion by him. Nico 19:58, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Cordyph, your backing off-reaction is understandable — I have the same urge myself. But I wonder if that is good for wikipedia.

One could have expected a more cooperative attitude from User:Wik, who is a rather experienced wikipedian, having contributed to articles within a pretty wide field.

Regarding contributors of the Nico/Heine variety, I wonder if the Don't Bite The Newbies strategy maybe is working even in this problematic case. Admitedly slowly and probably incompletely, but never the less, I see signs of an effect. I am not so sure that Nico is "not interested in achieving a compromise". --Ruhrjung 08:57, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Ruhrjung. Now in the light of a new morning I wonder myself if it was good to surrender so fast. It was wrong from me to accuse Wik of "completely hopping mad". It has always been my strategy not to reply to insults with other insults, but in this case I apparently could not resist. So I repeat my apology for that. Nonetheless, I am extremely disappointed about Wik's reaction to my page protection. He never made an attempt to discuss the issue before, but as soon as the page was protected, he moved heaven and earth in order to call my neutrality into question, in a way, that I still regard as extremely unfair. When this de-admin request page became another battlefield for Nico and Wik, my first reaction was: Okay, let them rip out each other's throat, but without me. I don't need all this. If I would search a place for flames and insults, I know other places in usenet, but that is not the reason for me to help on Wikipedia. I will think about, if I should come back to that article, but not now. Good luck. -- Cordyph 09:43, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)

User Nico
Hi, Cordyph! Is user:Nico, the former user: Heine? Space Cadet 14:56, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)~

 * Hi Space, nice to hear from you again. I am not sure if he is - but it is possible. That would mean, that he fooled me, since for a short period of time I thought, that he was on a way towards NPOV. Therefore I left some encouraging words on his talk page some days ago. His recent behaviour apparently shows, that I was wrong. His unpolite words towards Khym Chanur, you and many others show, that he did not learn his lesson.
 * The current state of edit wars is worse than it was ever before. I hope that this situation will come to an end soon, but I doubt that this will work without banning someone. (And you may know that I regard Wik just as problematic as Nico.)
 * Perhaps you might want to leave a comment about my text proposal on Talk:Görlitz. Perhaps you can assist the brave Kosebamse in her (his?) attempts to settle the Silesia issues. After all, I abandoned hope, that there will be a peaceful solution.
 * Heine stopped contributing, when Pius and afterwards Nico appeared. So it is in all probability, that they are the same person. I wonder why one living in Norway could be that interested in Silesia.
 * Please note, that I changed my user name. You may call me Baldhur or Mirko. Cordyph is not here anymore.
 * Take care, Space! -- Baldhur 15:14, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

De-adminship
I've removed your sysop status on en: as you requested. I'll fix up the name change later. It's a bit more complicated than an ordinary name change. -- Tim Starling 05:36, Nov 15, 2003 (UTC)

User Tannin
Hi, the last communication I had from Tannin, he was about to set off to northern Australia, hoping to get some good wildlife photos, but that was ages ago, and I've heard nothing since. I agree that it would be a pity if he really has left, and a loss to this project Jim

I just want to agree with Jim. ;)

Err ... No. I want to say thanks for the welcome back, Baldhur, and I'm looking forward to filling in some missing areas with photos. Not just birds: I spent a day at the Western Plains Zoo in Dubbo (New South Wales) taking pictures of the mammals there for the 'pedia: antelope and wild dogs and so on. Trouble is, I forget what most of them are already! Sorry to hear you had problems here, but glad that you are back, even if only (like me) on a part-time basis.

Best -- Tony (Tannin 08:26, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC))

 * Great! I don't have many carnivores. A nice Cheetah, but we already have PD ones just as good. I'll see what I can dig out in the dog department ... Oh dear - nothing much at all. (My day at Dubbo was almost two months ago, and my memory isn't what it ought to be.) No matter. I'll get onto the herbivores in due course, and trust that you'll be able to help me work out what they were. (Where are my notes?) Tannin 10:05, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Go right ahead. I'll upload some more in the morning. Perhaps I'll make a temp page with a few different things on it and you can pick out anything you like and can ID. (Most of them I'll be OK on, but I really only remember the birds properly - all my bird shots are in the wild, and when you spend all that time finding them, you tend to remember.) Tannin 10:39, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

re:page move
But the page I was trying to move is the content currently at Charles Taylor...it wasn't a redirect. Maybe it doesn't allow pages to be moved on top of redirects created by a move to begin with? --Jiang|(Talk)

Vandalism in progress Page
Please stop reverting the Vandals in Progress page. I am not Calius2ga and I have as much right to place my complaint as anyone else see nicos progress on the talk:silesia page.24.2.152.139 03:46, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Your complaint was not deleted, but moved to Conflicts between users. -- Baldhur 11:57, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Plural or singular case in animal groups
Most of the conventions are, I think, uncontentious. The main dispute was the use of capitals for individual species names, where the Americans preferred lower case. Capitals are accepted for birds, with a lower case redirect, and are de facto standard for cetaceans, where non-Americans have written most of the articles. Conversely, the fish are mainly written by Stan Stebs, and are lower case. I'll have a look. Jim

Silesian wars
Yeah, I don't know. I've never been huge on the procedures on Wikipedia. Should we nominate him for de-adminship? Also, I tend towards the conclusion that Caius2ga ought to be banned, seeing as he's vandalized other people's user pages, and is completely unwilling to listen to what anybody else has to say, but I'm not sure how to do that. At any rate, Silesia is a complete mess. john 18:27, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hey, I've called a vote on some of the issues at Talk:Silesia in an attempt to work out some kind of consensus. I'd appreciate your input. john 22:05, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I have now invited users kpjas and Space Cadet, as you suggested. I had previously invited Szopen, who has participated in the debate. I'm sorry I (probably) deleted your vote...I was busy reverting caius2ga's attempt to hide the vote...I think you're right, though, that this is probably useless so long as caius2ga and wik refuse to vote. Wik's refusal to engage in almost any discussion at all is particularly irritating, since I imagine he might, unlike caius2ga, have actual useful things to say, if he would deign to explain himself to the rest of us... john 23:11, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I was definitely going to keep an eye on it. I just don't want to get too involved...I won't withdraw entirely, I just want to sit back and cool off. As far as inviting Caius2ga, I suspect it won't do much good - and he surely knows that stuff is going on, so he's probably just sulking and preparing for another long burst of text... john 08:35, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Emu Picture
Hi Baldhur. I just posted the following over on the German 'pedia. (In English, so perhaps you would be good enough to translate it for me.)

 * Please forgive my writing in English (I have no German at all). At first I thought this was not an Emu at all, but maybe a Rhea. But on closer examination, I see that it is an Emu chick, about 3/4 grown - maybe 9 or 12 months old and almost ready to become an adult.

 * However, it doesn't look very much like an Emu, so perhaps a different picture would be better. I'll have a look through my collection and see what I can find. (I'll upload them to the English Wikipedia as I have a username there and don't know how to upload them here.)

It sure didn't look like an Emu, but it is. Compare with this (poor) photo of an emu chick:

[Image removed so it can be deleted from the Wikipedia server]

Here is a better (but still not very good) one. You may like to use it on the German 'pedia. I haven't loaded it up here as I don't really think it's good enough, and I like my pictures to be taken in the wild, especially with easy birds like Emus. This one is semi-tame (the top one is wild - and he had succeeded in raising 7 chicks in a bad drought year in southern Queensland - not a bad effort!

Cheers Tannin 13:01, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Here is another one.

All 3 Emus are adults, Baldhur. Only in the first picture is there a young one, which is part-obscured by the parent. Excuse my previous post - on re-reading it I see that it doesn't make much sense! I need to sleep more! Tannin

Thanks (Silesia and related issues)
Thanks, Baldhur...I'm trying to be more moderate because I still have hope that Taw and Caius (especially Taw, who as a sysop is obviously a respected cmmunity member) will be willing to compromise, and that Nico will as well. Obviously we have to get everyone to meet in the middle somehow:perhaps reference to both names? I don't know--maybe there is no good answer. I do hope, though, that you won't leave WP...even when I'm most frustrated, I realize that 95% of the work done here is productive and constructive....it's just too easy to be caught up in the drama of the 5% that isn't. What little of your editing I've encountered has impressed me, and I am heartened every day to know there are productive users like you around this place. I would be sad to see you leave: I suggest (if I may) that frustration is easiest handled by making new articles. It always calms me down, and gets me out of the conflicts that will never fully leave this place (we're human). Keep up the good work, and I hope we can work together on something productive in the future. Jwrosenzweig 22:51, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your kind words. Probably one should not take my words too serious. Actually I did already leave the English Wikipedia due to these events, but I returned just a week later. Now after becoming involved into this dispute anew frustration is growing again. It is just that I think, that it must be possible to talk to people and effect anything with quiet and polite words. But apparently some people around here are not interested in cooperation, but just in spreading their propaganda, and that makes me angry. I will go asleep now, maybe tomorrow I'll be in better temper. -- Baldhur 22:59, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Silesia
I see that the discussion of Silesia seems to be continuing now, and that is of course very good. Just a warning: When an agreement was found with szopen and other contributors, caius2ga neither didn't participate in the discussion. First when the new version was finally accepted by all participants in the discussion he started to revert.

According to me, I will just let you know that I'm trusting in that John and the others will find an acceptable version, and wouldn't even think about starting reverting them. Nico 07:35, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I know this game, Nico. Apparently Caius2ga left Wikipedia, and I consider it good news, not because of his bias, but because of his behaviour. But I know that there are others who would behave like him. And I do not know the golden way out of the dilemma. All I can do is hoping that a great number of Wikipedians involved in writing a neutral article will prevent partisans from reverting. -- Baldhur 10:22, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Scipios
Hello Balhur! Yes, i made it myself, and the other family trees. I dont know if you can import images across wikis, but if not, i'll be happy to translate to german and upload the family trees you wish in the German wiki. Problem is that i'm out of Mainz (my base camp) and i dont have easy access to the files. Leave a message in my talk page with the family trees you want in the German wiki and i promise i do what i can. By the way, i'm constructing the Norway, Sweden and Denmark royal trees. Mit freundlische grussen, Muriel Victoria 17:45, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Admins
They've all been done already, except for you. I'm not sure who did it, I'll see if I can find out. -- Tim Starling 23:55, Feb 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * Hi Tim, thanks for your help. Magnus Manske did it yesterday in the evening, and although he congratulated me for sysophood, he apparently forgot to add me. Thank you again -- Baldhur 09:30, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Baldhur/archive


text:
List of governors of Rhode Island

The governor of Rhode Island is the head of government of Rhode Island and serves as commander-in-chief of the U.S. state's Army National Guard and Air National Guard. The current governor is Dan McKee.

Governors
Rhode Island was one of the original Thirteen Colonies and was admitted as a state on May 29, 1790. Before it declared its independence, Rhode Island was a colony of the Kingdom of Great Britain.

The state initially continued operating under the provisions of its 1663 charter, which simply said that the governor and deputy-governor would be elected from time to time. The 1842 constitution formalized the terms for governor and lieutenant governor to be one year, beginning on the first Tuesday of May after the election. Amendment XVI, taking effect in 1911, changed the term to be two years beginning from the first Tuesday in the January after the election. Terms were lengthened to four years in 1992, but governors were now limited to succeeding themselves only once. A former governor can run again after a four year break. Should the office of governor be vacant, the lieutenant governor becomes governor. The governor and the lieutenant governor are not officially elected on the same ticket.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: List of governors of Rhode Island


text:
Talk:Rahul Dravid

Citations needed
A lot of content missing citation and that's why I tagged it. THE NEW  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 22:30, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Height
Rahul Dravid's height is wrong. He is much taller than 1.70 m. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.113.159.78 (talk) 14:43, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2019
Rahul Dravid is taller than 1.70 m Zahidtaniv2017 (talk) 14:53, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — KuyaBriBri Talk 17:03, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2021
Rahul Dravid and his wife Vijeta Pendharkar both are Karhade Brahmins and not the Deshastha Brahmins as mentioned 122.171.237.104 (talk) 05:59, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 06:05, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Karhade and not Deshastha
Both Rahul Dravid and his wife Vijeta Pendharkar are Karhade brahmins and not Deshastha brahmins as mentioned on the page Varsha318 (talk) 06:05, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rahul Dravid


text:
File:SAM Coupé startup screen.png

Startup screen of the SAM Coupé computer.

Fair use for SAM Coupé

 * The copyright holder has not released equivalent image into the public domain, and a replacement image could not be created that would adequately provide the same information.
 * The image is being used for no purpose other than to illustrate an aspect of the article.
 * The use of this image does not detracts from the possibility to sell this software in any way.

title: File:SAM Coupé startup screen.png


text:
Talk:Paratrooper

Less US focus?
Is there anyone out there who could make this article apply more generally to paratroopers, and less specifically to US paratroopers? --85.224.196.223 21:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, there is way too much focus on US paratroopers here

I agree with this too. I see no reason why the US paratroopers should get more attention than paratroopers from other countries; I suggest that we trim it down considerably and make the article more neutral rather than country-specific. Suicidal Lemming (talk) 21:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Support I might take a stab at it in a few days, but don't let that slow anyone else down. Rklawton (talk) 22:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone else feel that the role of the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion should be mentioned here? I'm please to see there is a Wikipedia entry about them, but if you don't know to search for "1st Canadian Airborne" or "1st Canadian Parachute Batallion", it won't come up. Most people would logically search for "paratrooper", so I think it's fair that Canada should come up in that search too. They fought in WWII along with the British Airborne. My friend who is a military history buff had no idea there were Canadian parachutists in WWII! I explained to him my grandfather was one of them. I just feel if people search for the history of paratroopers than the Canadian role should be included. Please correct me if it's in here! I don't see Canada in the list whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.18.242.1 (talk) 13:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Previous discussion
EETech added a lot of material to this page which has been incorporated into the article. The remainder of the material is left below for reference, but I didn't think it was wanted in the article. Kcordina 13:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

 * The orignal article had only "The five points of performance" listed under safety, but you could also include the remainder of the sustained airborne training because it is also part of safety. If I have more time, I will add some additional info.  (I've been a paratrooper and jumpmaster for 7 of my 13 years of service).  EETech 04:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

4. Activation of the Reserve Parachute.

a.then itll work

utilizing the pull drop method. Maintain a good tight body position. With either hand grasp the ripcord grip. Turn your head in either direction. Pull up on the ripcord grip and drop it. Your reserve parachute will active. Ensure neither hand is in front of the reserve parachute as it deploys.

b. To activate your reserve parachute for a malfunction, you will utilize the “Pull Drop Method.” Maintain a good tight body position. Grasp the left carrying handle with your left hand; with your right hand, grasp the ripcord grip. Turn your head in either direction. Pull out on the ripcord grip and drop it. Your reserve parachute will activate.

c. In the event your Reserve Parachute does not activate, maintain a good tight body position, grasp the left carrying handle with your left hand, with your right hand sweep the Rip Cord Protector Flap up and away ensuring your hand does not stay in front of the Reserve Parachute.

5. Towed Parachutist.

a. If you become a towed parachutist, and you are being towed by your universal static line, and you are unconscious, you will be retrieved back inside the aircraft. If you are conscious, maintain a good tight body position. Place your right hand over the ripcord protector flap with your right forearm protecting the ripcord grip. When jumping the soft loop center pull MIRPS you will place either hand on the ripcord protector flap fingers pointed downward. An attempt will be made to retrieve you. If you cannot be retrieved, your universal static line will be cut. As soon as you feel yourself falling free from the aircraft, activate your reserve parachute utilizing the Pull Drop Method.

 * Who's the jackass who edited it to say "If you become a dumb towed parachutist?" Real immature.

b. If you become a towed parachutist and you are being towed by any item of equipment, whether you are conscious or unconscious, that item of equipment will be cut immediately and your main parachute will deploy.

6. Entanglements. There are two types of entanglements: High altitude and Mid altitude.

a. If you see you are going to become entangled with another jumper, immediately slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away, immediately assume a spread eagle position and try to bounce off the fellow jumper’s canopy or suspension lines. If you do become entangled, snap into a modified position of attention. Place your right hand over the ripcord protector flap, with your right forearm protecting the ripcord grip. With your left hand, attempt to weave your way out of the suspension lines the same way you entered. When jumping the soft loop center pull MIRPS you will place either hand on the ripcord protector flap fingers pointed downward. With the opposite hand attempt to weave your way out of the suspension lines the same way you entered.

b. If you become hopelessly entangled, and you are jumping the T-10D main parachute, the higher jumper will use the hand under hand method to climb down to the lower jumper. Once they are even, both jumpers will grasp each other’s main lift web and decide what type of parachute landing fall they will make. Both jumpers will fall in the same direction. You will not do a front parachute-landing fall. Both jumpers will observe both canopies. If one canopy collapses, both jumpers will ride the one good canopy to the ground. One T-10D parachute can sustain both jumpers. If both canopies collapse, both jumpers will immediately push or turn away, creating a clear unobstructed path, and then activate their reserve parachute utilizing the Pull Drop Method.

c. If you are jumping the MC1-1D parachute, and you become hopelessly entangled, both jumpers will stay where they are, ensure they have a clear unobstructed path, then immediately activate their reserve parachute utilizing the Pull Drop Method.

7. Emergency Landings. There are three types of emergency landings: Tree Landing, Wire Landing and Water Landing. The first one I’ll discuss is:

a. Tree Landing. If you see yourself drifting towards a body of trees, immediately try to slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away and your equipment has already been lowered, look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you and jettison your equipment, making a mental note of where it lands. If your equipment has not already been lowered, keep it on you to provide additional protection as you pass through the trees. Assume a good prepare to land attitude by keeping your feet and knees together, knees slightly bent, chin on your chest, eyes open, and your hands in front of your face with your elbows high. Be prepared to do a PLF in the event you pass through the trees. If you get hung up in the trees and you do not feel you can safely lower yourself to the ground, stay where you are and wait for assistance.

If you decide to climb down, jettison all unneeded equipment. Ensure that you maintain your ballistic helmet. Activate the quick release in the waistband then activate the chest strap ejector snap. Place your left hand over the ripcord protector flap and apply slight pressure. Ensure you have a clear and unobstructed path then activate the reserve parachute and lower it to the ground. Undo the left connector snap and rotate the reserve parachute to the right. Seat yourself well into the saddle. Activate the leg strap ejector snaps and climb down the outside of the reserve parachute. When in doubt, stay where you are and wait for assistance.

b. Wire Landing. If you are drifting towards wires, immediately try to slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away, look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you and jettison your equipment, making a mental note of where it lands. Assume a prepare to land attitude by keeping your feet and knees together, exaggerating the bend in your knees, eyes open, chin on chest, and arch your back. Place the palms of your hands high on the inside of the front set of risers. When you make contact with the wires, begin a hard rocking motion and attempt to pass through the wires. Be prepared to do a PLF in the event you pass through the wires. If you get hung up in the wires, do not attempt to lower yourself to the ground. Stay where you are and wait for assistance.

c. Water Landing. If you are drifting towards a body of water, immediately try to slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away, look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you, and lower your equipment. You will also jettison your ballistic helmet, making a mental note of where it lands. Activate the quick release in your waistband, unsnap the left connector snap and rotate the reserve parachute to the right. Activate the chest strap ejector snap and immediately regain canopy control. Prior to entering the water, assume a prepare to land attitude by keeping your feet and knees together, knees slightly bent, eyes open, chin on your chest, and both hands on the leg strap ejector snaps. Upon making contact with the water, activate the leg strap ejector snaps, then throw your arms up and attempt to slide out of the parachute harness. Once in the water, you will swim upstream or upwind away from the canopy. Be prepared to do a PLF in the event the water is shallow.

8. B-7 Life Preserver. When jumping the B-7 life preserver, you will activate the B-7 life preserver while still in the air. You will not jettison any of your equipment. Look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you and lower your equipment. Assume a prepare to land attitude and be prepared to do a PLF in the event the water is shallow. Once in the water, activate one canopy release assembly by using one of the two methods of recovery from the drag previously described.

9. Night Jump. When jumping at night, always give your canopy an extra look. Maintain noise discipline and a good interval between fellow jumpers. Be prepared to do a PLF because you will hit the ground approximately 5 to 10 seconds before you think you will.

10. AWADS. When jumping under AWADS conditions, do not lower your equipment until you have cleared through the clouds. Do not slip or turn unless you have to do so to avoid a collision. If you have any kind of malfunction, immediately activate your reserve parachute because you cannot compare your rate of descent with that of fellow jumpers.

11. Parachute Landing Falls. At this time we will move to the parachute landing fall platform and execute one satisfactory parachute-landing fall in each of the four directions. Remember to expose the lower three points of contact for the modified parachute-landing fall. EETech 20:09, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Can glider troops be considered paratroopers. They are airborne forces, but I would think that equating those two are the same as equating paratroopers to heli-borne infantry. Sure they may be qualified paratroopers, but in the context of their deployment, would they really be considered paratroops? say1988 02:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Paratrooper movie?
wasmt tehre a movie named paratrooper made in 1953 with alan ladd, leo geen, and susan stephen?

Split paratrooper unit list into new article
The bulky list of world paratrooper units is a detractor from this article. It should be split off into it's own article with a summary paragraph in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.114.133.158 (talk) 00:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Agree, according List of ... type articles. Also, a table (with some extra data such main base, etc would better than a list.  --Jor70 00:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Geneva Convention?
I recall hearing from my Marine father that paratroopers are not entitled to the same protections that, say, ejected fighter pilots are entitled to during their descent. Should a section perhaps be added to deal with some of the distinctions in how the conventions apply to Paratroopers as opposed to other types of soldiers? 71.198.127.97 07:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Ejecting pilots are considered non-combatants.  Paratroopers, on the other hand, are an immanent threat.  They can be shot out of the sky by anyone foolish enough to try just as legally as shooting a grunt off a truck.  Rklawton (talk) 02:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Date confirmation for UK
"Britain's first airborne assault took place on February 10, 194" can we get a date for this event.--82.9.116.89 18:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

French Paratroopers
I have added infos related to the history of French Airborne units. their history started in 1956 in the article. Will add references later if necessary and when I find reliable sources in English. Edmond HUET (talk) 20:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Heavy Drop
...is also US military parlance for a fat ass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avitor (talk • contribs) 17:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

US Army
This article contains too much information about the American paratroopers. Please, make reference to the English, German, Russian... paratroopers and remove any useless information about the American paratroopers. Regards --195.158.103.93 (talk) 06:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Feel free to add whatever you want. That's what Wikipedia is all about.EETech (talk) 06:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Who defines "useless?" Caisson 06 (talk) 18:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The section on Parachute training is incorrect. When a service member completes the course and receives his Parachutist Badge, he/she becomes a "Military Parachutist," not a "Paratrooper." One becomes a paratrooper only after being assigned to an airborne unit, such as the 82nd Airborne Division, etc., not merely upon being awarded jump wings. (GregJackP (talk) 15:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC))

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 10:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Overlap
I'm not an expert, but I think this article has a lot of overlap now with the Airborne forces and the different countries. I guess this article should be about just the specifics of paratroopers, and general airborne forces content could be in the other articles. If someone has experience in separating articles, maybe the training section could hold as an article of its own. I think it's the main reason of the "US-centric" complains, being so prominent in this article.

I'll try to work on this as my limited time permits, but feel free to jump in (pun not intended :-) ) --Cmontero (talk) 22:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Dubious?
What's dubious about this: "This badge allows the now 'paratrooper' to be assigned to an airborne position within an airborne unit." Rklawton (talk) 18:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

 * The badge does not make one a 'paratrooper,' which is the point. At jump school they make it very clear that completing the course does not make one a paratrooper, all it does is make one a 'military parachutist.'  I suppose things could have changed since I attended jump school almost 30 years ago, but all the jump wings meant is that you were qualified to be assigned to an airborne unit - you only became a paratrooper on such an assignment. (GregJackP (talk) 22:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC))

 * Here's the definition of paratrooper: "A type of soldier who is trained to enter combat zones by parachuting from aircraft."  It says nothing about whether or not the soldier has been assigned to an airborne unit.  What you remember the cadre telling you and what is verifiable for this article may be two different things.  Wikipedia's standards are that claims must be verifiable, and the definition of paratrooper - which you dispute based on hearsay - is verifiable via the dictionary.  In short, what you remember hearing 30 years ago carries no weight; what the dictionary tells us carries sufficient weight that it's clear a dubious tag is not warranted.  Rklawton (talk) 23:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

It is not just based on my personal experiences, interpretations or opinion. Let's look at the dictionary definitions:

|Dictionary.com
 * Random House Dictionary - "a member of a military infantry unit trained to attack or land in combat areas by parachuting from airplanes."
 * This definition doesn't require the unit to be an airborne unit - just that the soldier is trained to parachute from airplanes. It entirely supports my position.  However, the definition is clearly dated as it only applies to infantry and only to airplanes.  Rklawton (talk) 02:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

 * The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition - "A member of the paratroops."
 * This definition would allow someone to be called a paratrooper even if they've never been trained and never made a jump. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary - "A member of the paratroops."
 * This definition would allow someone to be called a paratrooper even if they've never been trained and never made a jump. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Cambridge International Dictionary of English - "(a military unit of) soldiers trained to be dropped from an aircraft with a parachute"
 * The word in question is "paratrooper" not "paratroops" (defined above), so this definition is entirely irrelevant. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The entries with "a member of the paratroops" doesn't really define the word that well, but both Random House and Cambridge define it as being a member of an airborne unit - not as individual soldiers who may be trained to be part of that unit.

It is not based on personal opinion.

What definition are you citing? From where? (GregJackP (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC))
 * I was citing Wictionary's definition. The Student Brigade that provides the U.S. Army's airborne training *is* an airborne unit, so yes, U.S. Army Airborne school graduates are trained, have jumped, and did belong to an airborne unit.  The definitions you provided don't work for the reasons noted above.  Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Here's another way of looking at it. If a soldier graduates from the Army's medic school and they are assigned to a transportation unit and end up driving a truck, are they still a medic? Of course they are - and they can apply their skills when called upon to do so.  Likewise, a graduate of the U.S. Army Airborne school is a paratrooper and may be called upon to make a jump when the mission calls for it whether or not their unit has the "airborne" designation.  Rklawton (talk) 02:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I disagree, and have provided references and material to support that position. The 1st of the 507th is a school unit, and is not, as noted in one of the definitions, training the students to attack - but merely to jump out of perfectly good airplanes.  I respect your opinion, I understand that you are an Admin, but I disagree with your position.  I believe that you are incorrect, and are dismissive of the cites provided.

 * There are other options also - such as rewording that sentence. What about "This badge allows the now 'paratrooper' graduate to be assigned to a n airborne 'paratrooper' position within an airborne unit."

 * As I noted on your talk page, I don't think that we will necessarily agree, and I would suggest that we ask a third party for their opinion. I have been respectful and civil and I am trying to resolve this within the bounds of WP:DR. (GregJackP (talk) 03:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC))

Proposed: unless an editor can find a U.S. military publication that states soldiers are not referred to as paratroopers unless they have been trained accordingly AND assigned to unit designated as "airborne," then there's no reason to add the "dubious" tag to the sentence noted above. No less than two dictionary definitions support this approach, and the remaining definitions cited don't even make training or jumping a requirement for the "paratrooper" designation - thereby rendering these definitions useless for the purposes of this article. Rklawton (talk) 02:57, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Why not just reword the sentence, as noted above?(GregJackP (talk) 03:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC))

History, U.S.
The article reports that the U.S. Army created its first test platoon in 1940. This is in keeping with Army tradition. However, the 1935 movie West Point of the Air (filmed in 1934 on location at Randolf Field) clearly shows paratroopers exiting a large biplane formation during flight school graduation ceremonies at the movie's end. The film footage makes it pretty clear that some sort of test unit existed at least as early as 1934. However, before changing the article, it would make sense to find a few more sources. Any takers? Rklawton (talk) 23:01, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm writing from memory here, but there were interwar arguments about the ownership of the airborne in the US; I'm guessing that the 1934 film might be showing non-Army paratroopers at work, inkeeping with the statement that the first US Army test platoon was then formed in 1940. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Also writing from memory, the plans for the 1919 offensive against Germany included turning the US 1st Infantry Division into the 1st Parachute Infantry Division and dropping it on Metz. This might be worth further research. Graham1973 (talk) 12:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

 * If it's "non-Army" - then what is it? Navy?  Marines?  Civilians?  The whole movie was a show-case for the U.S. Army Air Corps, so there's every reason to suspect that the paratroopers were U.S. Army soldiers.  Perhaps the Army's current paratroopers can trace back an unbroken line to the 1940 test platoon, but I think it's clear that the test platoon did not comprise the first U.S. Army soldiers trained to jump.  The 1930's saw many innovations - some great, some terrible, and even some of the great innovations were shelved by a moribund top brass.  Rklawton (talk) 14:25, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Italian paratroopers
This section is full of information that is not well-organized and (likely) poorly translated (though the Italian page is of no use on this particular article). What's wrong with linking to the main article, as is? How can we reduce the section on Italy to minimally describe the Italian paratroopers for this article and refer readers to the other article for a full picture? Paulmnguyen (talk) 20:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The first Italian/Libyan paratroop groups had the most gawd awful parachute ever ever used for paratroopers. It was based on an early escape parachute for aircraft pilots. A lot of Libyans got hurt using them, along with those from Peru trained by Italy (ie Peru was the first nation to use paratroopers in combat in the Americas in July 1941). The reasoning for the Libyan colonial paratroopers were to seize waterholes when the Italian Army was in pursuit of raiders. Jack --Jackehammond (talk) 04:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

its not lebanese, it cant be... im lebanese and i know that in 1991 there was no italian paratroupers droed in lebanon , ... please make sure the facts are right and fix it ...--Jadraad (talk) 13:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Benajamin Franklin
There's a quote by Benjamin Franklin: "Five thousand balloons, capable of raising two men each, could not cost more than five ships of the line; and where is the prince who can afford so to cover his country with troops for its defense as that 10,000 men descending from the clouds might not in many places do an infinite deal of mischief before a force could be brought together to repel them?"Smallman12q (talk) 20:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Paratrooper. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140301082430/http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argpa.htm to http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argpa.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120329192225/http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3702/1334146w3ftqbkb.jpg to http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3702/1334146w3ftqbkb.jpg
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140303003823/http://exparacaistasea.blogcindario.com/2008/01/00014-escuela-de-paracaidismo-argentino-nuestra-cuna.html to http://exparacaistasea.blogcindario.com/2008/01/00014-escuela-de-paracaidismo-argentino-nuestra-cuna.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 14:54, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Military paratrooper
Girl 45.214.53.153 (talk) 21:24, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Hi
 * I am writing a story, I want to use the word a paratrooper would use to refer to the portal in the plane they jump from. How would a Navy frog jumper refer to it or how would any paratrooper refer to it? Bschmidt (talk) 16:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Paratrooper


text:
List of governors of American Samoa

This is a list of governors, etc. of the part of the Samoan Islands (now comprising American Samoa) under United States administration since 1900.

From 1900 to 1978 governors were appointed by the Federal government of the United States. Since that time they have been elected for 4-year terms by the people of American Samoa.

History
When the Department of the Interior sent four governors in a three year period, local Samoans began advocating for choosing their own governors. In the late 1940s, a Navy Governor, as well as an Interior Governor, had expressed their beliefs that High Orator Chief Tuiasosopo would be a suitable governor. In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower appointed Peter Tali Coleman as Governor of American Samoa, the first person of Samoan descent to occupy that role. Coleman, a member of the Republican Party, was a U.S. Army officer with a law degree from Georgetown University. After his presidential appointment, local residents became increasingly aware that Samoans can do the job just as good as the federal government, which until now had appointed governors to the islands. Soon local lawmakers such as Governor Owen Aspinall and H. Rex Lee favored the idea of locals being elected governors. On the other side was Governor John Morse Haydon, who openly opposed the idea. An administrative judge criticized Haydon and following a Pago Pago hearing, the Department of the Interior began distancing itself from Haydon and soon replaced him with a new governor. The concept of an elected governor was proposed with Senate Bill 20 and a Gubernatorial Commission was created in order to consider ways to implement the concept of electing governors.

In a 1977 article from the New York Times, it describes how opposition to an appointed Governor began with the appointment of Earl B. Ruth. Within eighteen months, the congressman from North Carolina had removed several Samoans in administrative posts, who had been appointed by former Republican Governor John Morse Haydon. Governor Ruth was soon recalled to Washington, DC and was later quoted for having called Samoans "lazy, thieving liars." After having turned down the proposal to elect their own Governor in three plebiscites, American Samoans in a 1976 referendum overwhelmingly approved the measure in which allowed them to elect that official. The first popularly elected Governor was Republican Peter Tali Coleman that same year.

Republican Te'o J. Fuavai was one of the earliest proponents of the movement to elect Governors in American Samoa, as opposed to Governors being appointed by the federal government. Fuavai sponsored a resolution that proposed the Department of the Interior to permit elections.

title: List of governors of American Samoa


text:
Amstrad CPC 464

The CPC 464 is the first personal home computer built by Amstrad in 1984. It was one of the bestselling and best produced microcomputers, with more than 2 million units sold in Europe. The British home computer boom had already peaked before Amstrad announced the CPC 464 (which stood for Colour Personal Computer) which they then released a mere nine months later.

Amstrad was known for cheap hi-fi products but had not broken into the home computer market until the CPC 464. Their consumer electronic sales were starting to plateau and owner and founder Alan Sugar stated "We needed to move on and find another sector or product to bring us back to profit growth". Work started on the Amstrad home computer in 1983 with engineer Ivor Spital who concluded that Amstrad should enter the home computer market, offering a product that integrated low-cost hardware to be sold at an affordable "impulse-purchase price".

Spital wanted to offer a device that would not commandeer the family TV but instead be an all-in-one computer with its own monitor, thus freeing up the TV and allowing others to play video games at the same time.

Bill Poel, General Manager of Amsoft (Amstrad's software division), said during the launch press release that if the computers were not on the shelves by the end of June, "I will be prepared to sit down and eat one in Trafalgar Square."

Technical specifications
The CPC 464 is powered by the Zilog Z80 processor after the original attempts to use the 6502 processor, being used in the Apple II amongst many other 8-bit computer families, failed. The Z80 runs at 4 MHz, has 64 KB of memory and runs AMSDOS, Amstrad's own OS. The unit includes a built-in tape drive and the choice of a colour or green monochrome monitor. The graphics, which uses a Motorola 6845 chip for timing and address generation, provides 3 standard display modes, each using colours chosen from a palette of 27.
 * Mode 0 - 160×200, 16 colours
 * Mode 1 - 320×200, 4 colours
 * Mode 2 - 640x200, 2 colours

Its sound is supplied using the General Instrument AY-3-8912 sound chip that provides 3-voice, 8-octave sound capacity through a built-in loudspeaker with volume control. Later versions of the 464 have a headphone jack that can also be used for external speakers.

The CPC 464's code name during development was 'Arnold'.

Reception
The 464 was popular with consumers for various reasons. Aside from the joystick port, the computer, keyboard, and tape deck were all combined into one unit that attached to the monitor via two cables. The monitor also contained the power supply unit which powered the whole unit via one wall plug. It did not have very many wires and was simple enough for even the most inexperienced user to install.

title: Amstrad CPC 464


text:
Döbeln (district)

Döbeln is a former district in Saxony, Germany. It was bounded by (from the north and clockwise) the districts of Torgau-Oschatz, Riesa-Großenhain, Meißen, Mittweida and Muldentalkreis.

History
The region was originally populated by Sorbic peoples. In the early Middle Ages, the Daleminzian people settled along this section of the Mulde River. They were driven away by Germans after the Battle of Jahna in 928.

The present borders of the district were established in 1952, when the government of East Germany formed the new districts. Döbeln was one of the few districts which had not been changed directly after the German reunification. In August 2008, as a part of the district reform in Saxony, the districts of Döbeln, Freiberg and Mittweida were merged into the new district Mittelsachsen.

Geography
The district was located on the banks of the Freiberger Mulde in the triangle between the cities of Dresden, Leipzig and Chemnitz.

title: Döbeln (district)


text:
Hempstead

Hempstead may refer to:

England

 * Hempstead, Essex
 * Hempstead, Kent
 * Hempstead, near Holt, Norfolk
 * Hempstead, near Stalham, Norfolk
 * Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire

United States

 * Hempstead, New York (disambiguation), multiple places in New York named Hempstead
 * Hempstead, Texas
 * Hempstead County, Arkansas
 * Hempstead High School (disambiguation), several high schools

Other uses

 * USS Hempstead, the name of more than one proposed United States Navy ship

People with the surname

 * Barbara L. Hempstead, American hematologist, neuroscientist, and academic administrator
 * Edward Hempstead (1780–1817), American lawyer and pioneer
 * Harry Hempstead (1868–1938), American owner of the New York Giants from 1912 to 1919
 * Hessley Hempstead (1972–2021), American football player
 * Isaac William Hempstead (Isaac Hempstead Wright, born 1999), English actor
 * Stephen P. Hempstead (1812–1883), American politician

title: Hempstead


text:
Talk:Taps (bugle call)

Historical Information
The tune that we know as taps was unknown until the Battle of Gettysburg. Until then the Army didn't have a standard bugle call for lights out. The one most often used was an old French call known as a "tattoo". The term "Taps" came from a Dutch term for "taptoe" which was used to signify closing the beer taps at the end of the day and sending the troops back to camp from leave. In July, 1863, tattoo was re-written by the commander of the Union Army at Gettysburg, Maj Gen Daniel Butterfield, because he wanted to have a standardized call for day's end. His men called it "Drum Taps", "The Taps", or simply "Taps". The call was adopted by both the Northern and the Southern Armies for the duration of the war. [Source: Historical archive at the Gettysburg National Battlefield Memorial, Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.]

The Army officially adopted taps in 1874, and it became standard for campfires and funerals in 1891.

Taps didn't have words until many years after it was written. The most official version of lyrics in use today, the first two verses, was published by Horace Lorenzo Trim. There have been several additional verses written by civilians and soldiers throughout the Army for a variety of purposes. John Wayne, Josef Pasternak, John Tidball, and Robert Ellicombe all get credit for writing verses. Ellicombe used it for the funeral of his son, said to be a confederate soldier.MR2David (talk) 07:35, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Lyrics
I think that the Lyrics section is getting unwieldy. A new set attributed to Anne McAffrey has just been added. I am not an expert on Taps but I feel that what is probably required is just ONE set of lyrics that are regarded as the most commonly-used, and with a good reference for this. All the others could be removed and replaced with a note that variants exist. Certainly, if we go the other way and add every set across which we stumble, the article is not going to improve. But that's just my inexpert opinion - what do you think? Best wishes to all, DBaK (talk) 09:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I just rather dramatically trimmed it back to all except the first. I don't really think it needs trimming THAT drastically but I really would appreciate some discussion here followed by others editing it to what they think is correct, and/or commenting on my point above. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 10:30, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * PS Sources - is it Jari Villanueva wrote that lovely book about it (or if not, who)? Might it help? I think I have a copy. Anyone else, any other source?? DBaK (talk) 13:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

The "lyrics" should fall under the Legends area until we can find sources. Bugle calls usually don't have official lyrics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4F1:5420:B593:8A02:4E49:C9AE (talk) 00:17, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Texas A&M paragraphs seem confusing
The two paragraphs about the Texas A&M tradition(s) confuse me. Are there 2 traditions--Silver Taps and Echo Taps? I think there's overlap in the two paragraphs. I hesitate to change because I'm unfamiliar with the traditions. Also, the meaning of "Aggies" isn't explained. Kekki1978 (talk) 08:14, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. The bugle call's primary topic status, whether by usage or dominance in long-term significance, seems to be unable to be secured. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 02:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Taps → Taps (bugle call) – WP:ASTONISH, no primary topic per WP:PLURALPT, the bugle call has 6,688 views but the 1981 film has more, 7,126, the valve has 3,039, the buffer has 165, Taps Mugadza has 62 and the 2006 film has 35[|Taps_(film)|Taps_Mugadza|Taps_(2006_film)|TAPS_(buffer)|Tap_(valve)]. Redirect back to Tap per WP:DABCOMBINE.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:48, 30 October 2022 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 23:17, 30 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:02, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Crouch, Swale got to contest on this one. Taps is a pretty famous tune itself, being used not only in the United States, but also other militaries (even if it is not stated in the article, but here you go as an example,, page 70). – robertsky (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes it probably has long-term significance but probably not over the thing that gives out water and not by usage over the film but you're probably right it may need discussing.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 23:12, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The Singapore army seems to have got itself somewhat confused here, since it appears that they actually, as would be expected from a Commonwealth country, use the Last Post instead of Taps! -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:08, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:02, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Songs has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject United States has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Death has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Scouting has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 13:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Oppose per contest above. Taps as a military song has a long-term significance, and would be ingrained in many worldwide even if they are not of the military as it is a common tune played at military funerals and other events (military and non-military alike). – robertsky (talk) 13:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Even with the long-term significance of the thing we get water out of. All Google results apart from the 4th last (1981 film) and last (song WP article) are for the thing we get water out of, Images only returns the water meaning and Books doesn't appear to return anything for the song and appears to mainly be for the water meaning. By usage the 1981 song gets more views, yes more! and the thing we get water out of is an everyday thing that even people interested in the song will use which surely has more long-term significance. Also 1981 is over 40 years ago so its not like the film is very recent either which also may question long-term significance.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 08:45, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * As Crouch Swale shows, this oppose is not correct. "taps" means taps. No evidence from Gbooks that the bugle call is well known, let alone primary topic. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Oppose per WP:SMALLDETAILS and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The bugle call is the primary topic for "Taps". Rreagan007 (talk) 00:37, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * en.wp cannot distinguish taps from Taps. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Oppose The tune has the most long-term notability over a movie (probably referencing tune), a singer who uses last name, and TAPS, which is not Taps. --Quiz shows 16:01, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose - with a lot of respect to the proposer, WP:ASTONISH is not a criterion at WP:AT and generally just exposes WP:BUTIDONTKNOWABOUTIT. Taps is a tremendously significant song. PLURALPT explicitly allows us to have a separate primary topic for "taps" versus "tap" (I would know; I wrote it.) Pageviews are great but the bugle call lays claim to educational significance. Red   Slash  17:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:PRECISE says "Usually, titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that." The exception being primary topics which this clearly fails, it fails the views criteria and while I agree it has significant long-term significance the thing we get water out of has far far more long-term significance than even the song. Taps that we get water out of are hugely important to us and have been around for far longer than the 19th century. Everyone knows what taps are while only some will know what the song is, BUTIDONTKNOWABOUTIT gives the examples of Birmingham, Perth and Raleigh where readers who have certain biases may think of another meaning but globally there is still a primary topic. Even if we drastically discount the water meaning due to readers and editors expecting the singular it is surely such a significant topic that it would still prevent the song from being primary in addition to the usage of the 1981 film. So respectfully I don't think there is enough of a case for primacy here especially when usage shows a different topic (the 1981 film) is if anything primary and long-term significance also suggests a different topic (the water meaning) its safest to disambiguate.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:15, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Taps is a tremendously significant song. Indeed it is, but is it really more significant than the things turned on many times a day by several billion people all over the world to provide water for drinking or washing? This is indeed a case of WP:ASTONISH, whether you have intimate knowledge of US military procedures or not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment: A battle on whether the opposers' long-term significance arguments are valid continues to rage on. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:02, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 03:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Clearly not the primary topic, especially over the rather common things that liquid comes out of (and are very often in pairs, hence the plural)! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:02, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There are a number of other uses which may be called "Tap(s)" at least sometimes, see views[] but even if we only look at the water meaning, 1981 film its clear there isn't a primary topic.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:09, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

swinging in the wind
why is the info about Butterfield so far away from the original reference to him? For somebody who jumps down to origins, it's like who is this and how did he get this job? 100.15.117.34 (talk) 00:14, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Civilian use
I attended YMCA Camp Loowit at the foot of Mt. St. Helens in the 1970s. (The camp isn't there anymore, nor is most of the mountain.) We used to sing the first verse of Taps quietly at the end of campfire each night, and then half an hour later, when the whole camp was in bed, two buglers played it to signal lights out. They stood at opposite ends of the large property and staggered their entry, so that from your cabin you either heard the call begin far-off then recommence louder, or it began near you and you heard a far-off echo of the last three notes after it ended. I always suspected that the echo versions in the military were a callback to the same experience soldiers had in large army camps, though this isn't confirmed in our entry here. Laodah 02:38, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Taps (bugle call)


text:
Daniel Butterfield

Daniel Adams Butterfield (October 31, 1831 – July 17, 1901) was a New York businessman, a Union general in the American Civil War, and Assistant Treasurer of the United States.

After working for American Express, co-founded by his father, Butterfield served in the Civil War, where he was soon promoted brigadier general, and wounded at Gaines' Mill. While recuperating, he either wrote or re-wrote a popular bugle-call for burials, called Taps. He commanded a division at Fredericksburg, and then became General Joseph Hooker's chief of staff for the Army of the Potomac, sharing both the credit for improved morale and responsibility for the licentious behavior that Hooker tolerated in camp. He also became embroiled in Hooker’s political feuds with Generals Ambrose Burnside and George Gordon Meade. When Meade took over the Army from Hooker, he attempted to replace Butterfield, but his chosen candidates preferred to stay in their current assignments, so Butterfield stayed on as chief of staff, to Meade's dissatisfaction.

Wounded at Gettysburg, Meade sent Butterfield away to recuperate. He then served in William T. Sherman’s Atlanta campaign, before retiring from front-line service through illness. He later received the Medal of Honor.

In Ulysses S. Grant's presidential administration, he was Assistant Treasurer of the United States, abusing that position to manipulate the price of gold, and being forced to resign. He then resumed his business career.

Butterfield’s extensive war archives are displayed at Cold Spring, New York.

Early life
Butterfield was born on October 31, 1831, in Utica, New York. He attended Union Academy and then graduated in 1849, from Union College in Schenectady, New York, where he became a member of the Sigma Phi Society. That same year, his father, John Warren Butterfield, founded the express company of Butterfield, Wasson, and Co., which later became the American Express Company. After graduating, Daniel studied law but as he was too young to sit the New York bar exam, he toured the country instead. Upon his return to Utica, he joined the Utica Citizen’s Corps as a private. He was employed in various businesses in New York and the South, including the American Express Company, which had been co-founded by his father, an owner of the Overland Mail Company, stage-coaches, steamships and telegraph lines.

Civil War
Butterfield went to New York City as superintendent of the eastern division of his father's company. There, he joined the Seventy-First regiment of New York militia as a captain. Shortly after the fall of Fort Sumter, Butterfield joined the Clay Guards of Washington, D.C., as a first sergeant, but subsequently transferred to the 12th New York Volunteer Infantry as a colonel.

He was commissioned brigadier and major general of the Volunteers and commanded a division of the V Corps. He fought at the First Battle of Bull Run on 21 July 1861. He wrote the 1862 Army field manual, Camp and Outpost Duty for Infantry.

Butterfield joined Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan's Army of the Potomac for the Peninsula Campaign in the V Corps, commanded by Maj. Gen. Fitz John Porter. In the Seven Days Battles, at Gaines' Mill on June 27, 1862, he was wounded but demonstrated the bravery that was eventually recognized in 1892, with the Medal of Honor. Butterfield continued in brigade command at the Second Battle of Bull Run and the Battle of Antietam, became division commander and then V Corps commander for the Battle of Fredericksburg. His corps was one of those assaulting through the city before facing an assault from Marye's Heights. After the debacles of Fredericksburg and the Mud March, Maj. Gen. Joseph Hooker replaced Ambrose Burnside as Army of the Potomac commander and Butterfield became Hooker's chief of staff in January 1863. Butterfield was promoted to major general of volunteers in March 1863, with a date of rank of November 29, 1862.

Hooker and Butterfield developed a close personal and political relationship. To the disgust of many army generals, their headquarters were frequented by women and liquor, being described as a combination of a "bar and brothel". Political infighting became rampant in the high command and Butterfield was widely disliked by most of his colleagues. However, in the spring of 1863, the two officers managed to turn around the poor morale of the army and greatly improved food, shelter and medical support. During this period Butterfield introduced another custom that remains in the Army today: the use of distinctive hat or shoulder patches to denote the unit to which a soldier belongs, in this case the corps. He was inspired by the division patches used earlier by Maj. Gen. Philip Kearny, but extended those to the full army; Butterfield designed most of the patches himself.

Hooker was replaced after the Battle of Chancellorsville by Maj. Gen. George G. Meade, just before the Battle of Gettysburg. Meade distrusted Butterfield, but retained him as chief of staff. Butterfield was wounded at Gettysburg on July 3, 1863, and left active duty to convalesce. Meade removed him as chief of staff on July 14, 1863. On July 1, 1863, Butterfield was appointed as colonel of the 5th United States Infantry.

After Gettysburg, Butterfield actively undermined Meade in cooperation with Maj. Gen. Daniel Sickles, another crony of Hooker's. Although the battle was a great Union victory, Sickles and Butterfield testified to the Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War that Meade vacillated and planned as early as July 1, to retreat from Gettysburg, thus damaging his reputation. Butterfield's chief evidence for this assertion was the Pipe Creek Circular that Meade had his staff prepare before it became apparent there would be a battle at Gettysburg.

Butterfield returned to duty that fall as chief of staff once again for Hooker, now commanding two corps in the Army of the Cumberland at Chattanooga, Tennessee. When these two depleted corps (the XI and XII Corps) were combined to form the XX Corps, Butterfield was given the 3rd Division, which he led through the first half of Sherman's Atlanta Campaign. Illness prevented his continuing with Sherman, resulting in Butterfield's assuming light duties at Vicksburg, Mississippi, followed by recruiting and the command of harbor forces in New York.

Taps
While the Union Army recuperated at Harrison's Landing, Virginia, from its grueling withdrawal during the Seven Days Battles, Butterfield experimented with bugle calls and is credited with the composition of "Taps". He wrote "Taps" to replace the customary firing of three rifle volleys at the end of burials during battle. "Taps" also replaced Tattoo, the French bugle call to signal "lights out". Butterfield's bugler, Oliver W. Norton of the 83rd Pennsylvania Volunteers, was the first to sound the new call. Within months, "Taps" was played by buglers in both the Union and Confederate armies. This account has been disputed by some military and musical historians, who maintain Butterfield merely revised an earlier call known as the Scott Tattoo and did not compose an original work.

Medal of Honor
Rank and organization: Brigadier General, U.S. Volunteers. Place and date: At Gaines Mill, Va., June 27, 1862. Entered service at: Washington, D.C. Born: October 31, 1831, Utica, N.Y. Date of issue: September 26, 1892.

The 1896 Pattern Medal of Honor was awarded to Daniel Butterfield, “for distinguished gallantry in action at Gaines Mills, Va. June 27, 1862”.

Citation: "Seized the colors of the 83d Pennsylvania Volunteers at a critical moment and, under a galling fire of the enemy, encouraged the depleted ranks to renewed exertion."

Life after the Civil War
After the war, President Ulysses S. Grant appointed Butterfield Assistant Treasurer of the United States, based on a recommendation by Abel Corbin, Grant's brother-in-law. Butterfield agreed to tell Corbin and speculators Jay Gould and James Fisk when the government was planning to sell gold, a market that Fisk and Gould wanted to corner. Butterfield accepted $10,000 from Gould, which Butterfield said was "to cover expenses". Butterfield later testified to Congress that it was an unsecured real estate loan. If Butterfield tipped them off, then Fisk and Gould would sell their gold before the price dropped. The scheme was uncovered by Grant, who sold $4,000,000 of government gold without telling Butterfield, resulting in the panic of collapsing gold prices known as Black Friday, on September 24, 1869.

Butterfield resigned from the Treasury Department in October 1869. He then became active in business and banking, including an executive position with American Express. He was also active in Union College's alumni association and several veterans organizations, including the Grand Army of the Republic.

On September 21, 1886, Butterfield married Mrs. Julia Lorrilard Safford James of New York in a ceremony in London. The Butterfields built a summer residence, Craigside, across the Hudson River from West Point in Cold Spring, New York, where Daniel Butterfield died on July 17, 1901. He was buried with an ornate monument in the West Point Cemetery at the United States Military Academy, although he had not attended that institution. Taps was sounded at his funeral.

Legacy
The Butterfield Paramedic Institute in Cold Spring, New York, which was once a hospital, is named for him.

Archives
The Julia L Butterfield Memorial Library in Cold Spring, New York is named for Butterfield's wife. The General Daniel Butterfield Civil War Collection is located there and include correspondence from Union generals, telegrams from Secretary of War Stanton and Gen. Sherman as he approached Atlanta, a battle map of Gettysburg, handwritten casualty lists, a manuscript by a field officer detailing the Battle of Gettysburg, and other material.

Bequeathed to the library by his widow in 1927, the collection's historical significance was not known until April 2011 when the West Point Museum Director and Chief Curator David Reel reviewed the collection. According to Reel, "The historical importance of the collection is unquestionable as a comprehensive archive of a major figure of the American Civil War and contains documents and letters, telegrams from 1861-64 that are irreplaceable and significant in content. . . No doubt, scholars of United States History and specifically the American Civil War will find a treasure trove of original, period material within the archive."

There is a statue of the general by Gutzon Borglum in Sakura Park in Manhattan.

Cragside
A part of the Butterfield estate, "Cragside", is named for the rocky cliffs on the property. The house was built from the rock quarried on the property. The property was by all accounts a beautiful estate with elaborate gardens. Some of the stables from the estate are still standing and used by the Haldane Central School District. Cragside was purchased around 1931 by the Fathers of Mercy. Founded in France in early 19th-century, the congregation established the parish of St. Vincent de Paul Church in Manhattan in 1841 for French-speaking Catholics. The Cold Spring property was the location of St. Joseph's Novitiate. The structure was destroyed by fire in the late 1970s. The property was later sold, and eventually acquired by the Haldane Central School District. Haldane's high school building was built on the property and opened in 2005.

In popular culture
Butterfield appears in the Civil War novel The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara – a character in the 20th Maine claims that their brigade bugle call was written by Butterfield and is based on his own name.

He was also referenced in the movie Glory.

title: Daniel Butterfield