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Josei manga

Josei manga (女性漫画), also known as ladies' comics (レディースコミック) and its abbreviation redikomi (レディコミ), is an editorial category of Japanese comics that emerged in the 1980s. In a strict sense, josei refers to manga marketed to an audience of adult women, contrasting shōjo manga, which is marketed to an audience of girls and young adult women. In practice, the distinction between shōjo and josei is often tenuous; while the two were initially divergent categories, many manga works exhibit narrative and stylistic traits associated with both shōjo and josei manga. This distinction is further complicated by a third manga editorial category, young ladies (ヤングレディース), which emerged in the late 1980s as an intermediate category between shōjo and josei.

Josei manga is traditionally printed in dedicated manga magazines which often specialize in a specific subgenre, typically drama, romance, or pornography. While josei dramas are, in most cases, realist stories about the lives of ordinary women, romance josei manga are typically soap opera-influenced melodramas, while pornographic josei manga shares many common traits with pornographic manga for a heterosexual male audience. The emergence of manga for an adult female audience as a category in the 1980s was preceded by the rise of gekiga in the 1950s and 1960s, which sought to use manga to tell serious and grounded stories aimed at adult audiences, and by the development of more narratively complex shōjo manga by artists associated with the Year 24 Group in the 1970s. The category became stigmatized in the late 1980s as it came to be associated with pornographic manga, though it gained greater artistic legitimacy in the 1990s as it shifted to social issue-focused stories. Josei manga has been regularly adapted into anime since the 2000s.

Terminology
Several terms exist to describe manga aimed at an audience of adult women:

 * Ladies' comics (レディースコミック)
 * The first term used to describe this category of manga. It is a wasei-eigo construction where "ladies" is understood as a synonym for "women", thus indicating the adult-focused audience. The term developed a negative connotation in the 1990s as it came to be associated with low-quality and pornographic manga, though this connotation waned by the 2000s. An abbreviation of ladies' comics is redikomi (レディコミ), and in Japan, this abbreviation is the most commonly-used term for this category of manga.

 * Young ladies (ヤングレディース)
 * A wasei-eigo term denoting an intermediate category positioned between manga for adult women and shōjo manga.

 * Josei manga (女性漫画)
 * A term originated by critics and academics in the late 1990s to distinguish all manga aimed at adult women from shōjo manga. While not commonly used among general Japanese audiences, it is the term most commonly used by Western audiences to describe this category of manga.

History
While manga aimed at a female audience has an extensive history that is expressed through the development of shōjo manga, for much of its history shōjo manga was targeted exclusively at an audience of children and young girls. This status quo began to shift in the late 1950s with the emergence of the concept of gekiga, which sought to use manga to tell serious and grounded stories aimed at adult audiences. By the late 1960s, gekiga was a mainstream artistic movement, and in 1968, the women's magazine Josei Seven published the first gekiga manga aimed at a female audience: Mashūko Banka (摩周湖晩夏) by Miyako Maki. Maki was a shōjo manga artist who debuted in the late 1950s and pivoted to gekiga as her original audience aged into adulthood. Two magazines dedicated to women's gekiga were founded shortly thereafter: Funny (ファニー) by Mushi Production in 1969, and Papillon (パピヨン) by Futabasha in 1972, though neither were commercially successful and both folded after several issues.

Despite the commercial failure of women's gekiga, the 1970s nonetheless saw the significant development of shōjo manga through the efforts of artists in the Year 24 Group. The Year 24 Group contributed significantly to the development of shōjo manga by creating manga stories that were more psychologically complex, and which dealt directly with topics of politics and sexuality. Junya Yamamoto, who as editor of Shōjo Comic published multiple works by the Year 24 Group, became the founding editor of the magazine Petit Flower in 1980, which targeted an older teen readership and published adult-focused works by Year 24 Group members Moto Hagio and Keiko Takemiya. Consequently, the readership of shōjo manga widened from its historical audience of children to incorporate teenagers and young adult women. Publishers sought to exploit this new market of mature shōjo readers by creating dedicated magazines, which came to be described using the genre name "ladies' comics". Notable magazines include Be Love by Kodansha and You by Shueisha in 1980, and Big Comic for Lady by Shogakukan in 1981; all three magazines shared the common traits of originating as special issues of shōjo manga magazines that were spun off into regular publications, and an editorial focus on romance stories that emphasized sex.

Open depictions of sexual acts came to be a defining trait of ladies' comics, in contrast to the editorial restrictions still placed on sexual depictions in shōjo manga. The manga artist Milk Morizono, renowned for her "porn-chic" stories, emerged as one of the most popular ladies' comics authors of the 1980s. Ladies' comics magazines proliferated rapidly in the latter half of the decade, from eight magazines in 1984, to 19 in 1985, to 48 in 1991. By the 1990s, large commercially-published ladies' comics magazines declined as a result of the Lost Decade and corresponding economic crisis, leading to the proliferation of smaller magazines focused on erotic and pornographic content. Consequently, ladies' comics developed a reputation as being "female pornography".

Contemporaneously, new manga magazines aimed at adult women in their early twenties emerged: Young You in 1987, Young Rose in 1990, and Feel Young in 1991. Manga published in these magazines came to be referred to as "young ladies" manga, originating from the word "young" appearing in the title of all three magazines, and was positioned in the manga market as an intermediate category between shōjo and ladies comics. Young ladies manga grew in popularity as shōjo artists who wished to create manga for an older audience while avoiding the stigma associated with ladies' comics migrated to the category. Teens' love also emerged as a subgenre of manga marketed towards women, which utilized the sex-focused narrative structure of ladies' comics, but with teenaged instead of adult protagonists. Ladies' comic magazines responded to this new competition by focusing on manga addressing social issues. The strategy was successful, and by the late 1990s had gained greater legitimacy as a literary genre and attracted a more general audience, with multiple ladies' comics titles adapted as films and television series. The term josei manga also emerged during this period, used primarily by academics to distinguish manga aimed at adult women from shōjo manga.

Josei as a category is generally less popular than shōjo, seinen, and shōnen manga. In 2010, You was the top-selling josei manga magazine, with a reported circulation of 162,917; by comparison, the top-selling shōjo magazine that year (Ciao) had a reported circulation of 745,455, while the top-selling seinen and shōnen magazines (Weekly Young Jump and Weekly Shōnen Jump) had reported circulations of 768,980 and 2.8 million, respectively. Anime has been a significant influencing factor in attracting a mainstream audience to josei manga since the 2000s, with the josei series Paradise Kiss (1999), Bunny Drop (2005), Chihayafuru (2007), Princess Jellyfish (2008), and Eden of the East (2009) all either originating as popular anime, or enjoying breakout success after being adapted into anime.

Themes and subgenres
There are three primary subgenres in josei manga: drama, romance, and pornography. In 2002, drama and romance titles collectively represented roughly 80 percent of sales in the josei collected volume market, while pornography composed the remaining 20 percent. Drama and romance titles are typically released by large Japanese publishing companies, while pornography is typically published by smaller publishing houses.

Drama
Many josei dramas are realist stories about the lives of ordinary women. These stories are typically focused on a working woman in a given profession, most commonly a housewife, office lady, or pink-collar worker. Narratives typically focus on common personal issues such as dating, childcare, eldercare, beauty standards, workplace issues, marital strife, or adultery. Many also address social issues, such as aging and dementia, prostitution, or violence against women. Josei manga does also feature male protagonists, typically bishōnen (literally "beautiful boys", roughly analogous to the Western "pretty boy") who often appear in stories with homoerotic subtext.

Stories are sometimes based on the experiences of readers themselves, who are actively invited to submit stories based on their own life experiences, and receive payment if their submissions are chosen to be adapted into manga. Josei manga magazines often publish special issues dedicated to a specific topic, such as issues devoted to divorce, illnesses, and cosmetic surgery. These topic-based issues occasionally include non-manga columns that provide information about the subjects covered in the issue. Sociologist Kinko Itō considers that josei dramas serve as a form of catharsis for the reader by depicting a character who is enduring greater hardship than they are, while manga scholar Fusami Ogi considers josei dramas as presenting role models and potential ways of life for female readers.

Romance
Josei romances typically eschew the realism of josei dramas, instead more closely resembling the heightened melodrama of a soap opera or a Harlequin romance novel. Stories often adhere to common romance novel story formulas, such as a woman who encounters a Prince Charming-like man with whom she embarks on a variety of adventures and ultimately marries. Sexual encounters between the protagonist and their partner are commonplace, while romantic fantasy themes often manifest in the setting (frequently either foreign or historical) or through heroic protagonists (princes and princesses, ghosts, people who possess supernatural abilities, etc.). Variant sexual identities, such as gay and transgender characters, also appear in these narratives. Josei romances target both a younger and older readership, with many stories aimed at teenaged girls, as evidenced by the extensive use of furigana as a reading aid.

Pornography
Pornographic josei manga shares many common traits with pornographic manga for a heterosexual male audience, though stories are typically written from a female rather than male point of view. Traits common to heterosexual pornography, such as female domination and objectification, similarly recur in pornographic josei manga; a common story formula in josei pornography is one in which a shy and intelligent woman is transformed into a nymphomaniac or a sex slave. Lesbian relationships also appear in pornographic josei manga, suggesting a lesbian readership of josei manga. Manga scholar Deborah Shamoon considers that the appeal of pornographic josei for a female audience lies in the ability of drawn pornography to depict subjects that are not easily depicted in filmed pornography, such as the female orgasm.

Shōjo manga
When josei manga initially emerged in the 1980s, it differentiated itself from shōjo manga by exploring adult topics such as work, sex, and life after marriage, and was directed at a readership of women who were "no longer a shōjo". Manga scholar Yukari Fujimoto notes this focus on realism as a primary distinguishing mark of josei stories, compared to the more fantastical narratives common in shōjo manga. This manifests in the careers commonly held by protagonists in each respective category: actresses, models, and musicians in shōjo manga, compared to ordinary working women in josei manga. Fujimoto further considers depictions of marriage as a primary dividing line between the categories, with shōjo depicting life before marriage, and josei depicting life afterwards.

Since the emergence of young ladies manga, distinctions between the categories have been increasingly blurred. In narratives, protagonists of all ages can readily be found in both shōjo and josei manga, with shōjo stories featuring adult protagonists and josei stories focusing on teens and younger characters. Stories that depict sex have been published in shōjo manga magazines such as Sho-Comi, while sex is virtually non-existent in some josei magazines such as Monthly Flowers.

At the editorial level, there is no consistent standard for segmenting manga aimed at a female audience, with terminology and categories varying across decades, publishing houses, and magazines. Since the 2000s, some large publishers such as Shueisha and Kodansha have grouped all manga magazines aimed at a female audience under a single category. Formatting of tankōbon bound volumes, where larger and more expensive books are traditionally reserved for titles aimed at an adult audience, similarly follow no formal rules, with adult manga sold in small and inexpensive formats and youth manga sold in large formats.

It is common for authors to create shōjo and josei manga simultaneously, with Mari Ozaki (manga artist), George Asakura, and Mayu Shinjo among the numerous artists who produce works across categories. This dynamic contrasts shōnen and seinen manga, where artists generally produce works in one category exclusively, and artists that do switch categories rarely switch back.

Shōnen and seinen manga
There have been several examples of josei works that share common traits with shōnen and seinen manga, or that blur distinctions between the categories. Saiyuki by Kazuya Minekura was serialized in the shōnen magazine Monthly GFantasy, though its sequel Saiyuki Reload was published in the josei magazine Monthly Comic Zero Sum. Fujio Akatsuka's 1962 manga series Osomatsu-kun was originally serialized in Weekly Shōnen Sunday, though when the series was rebooted in 2015 as the anime series Mr. Osomatsu, its manga spin-off was published in the josei magazines You and Cookie. Anthony Gramuglia of Comic Book Resources identifies the anime series Lupin the Third: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine, part of the Lupin the Third media franchise, as a notable josei adaptation of a seinen manga.

title: Josei manga


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Talk:Cute hoor

Untitled
Interesting, but is this better suited to Wiktionary? --Robert Merkel 02:57, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Expand, merge or redirect
This page is a mere dictionary definition (something which Wikipedia is not). It explains the meaning, etymology and pronunciation of a slang phrase and has some comments and examples on the usage of the phrase. Nothing here rises past what I would expect to read in a truly great unabridged dictionary. The definitions and usage discussions belong over in Wiktionary where folks with the right skills, interests and lexical tools can more easily sort out the meanings and origins.

Options to fix the page here include:
 * 1) Expand the page with encyclopedic content - that is, content that goes well beyond the merely lexical.
 * 2) Redirect the page to a more general page on the appropriate sub-genre of slang.
 * 3) Replace the current contents with a soft-redirect to Wiktionary (usually done using the wi template).

Pending a better answer, I'm implementing option 3 for now. Rossami (talk) 03:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

if there's an entry for 'pork barrel" there should be one for 'cute hoor'.
I would ask that the notability of this topic be reconsidered favourably - this is a key concept in Irish political life, referred to multiple times a year in Oireachtas and Irish newspaper records since the 80s. It is constantly discussed in the news and a Wikipedia page tracing the use of the term over time would be of value. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taibhseoir (talk • contribs) 01:52, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Cute hoor


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The Hermitage (Nashville, Tennessee)

The Hermitage is a historical museum located in Davidson County, Tennessee, United States, 10 mi east of downtown Nashville. The 1000 acre+ site was owned by Andrew Jackson, the seventh president of the United States, from 1804 until his death at the Hermitage in 1845. It also serves as his final resting place. Jackson lived at the property intermittently until he retired from public life in 1837.

Enslaved men, women, and children, numbering nine at the plantation's purchase in 1804 and 110 at Jackson's death, worked at the Hermitage and were principally involved in growing cotton, its major cash crop. It is a National Historic Landmark.

Architecture
The Hermitage is built in a secluded meadow that was chosen as a house site by Rachel Jackson, wife of Andrew Jackson. From 1804 to 1821, Jackson and his wife lived in a log cabin. Together, the complex formed the First Hermitage, with the structures known as the West, East, and Southeast cabins.

Jackson commissioned construction of a more refined house, and the original mansion was a two-story, Federal-style building built with bricks manufactured onsite by skilled people. Construction took place between 1819 and 1821. The house had four rooms on the ground floor and four rooms on the second level, each with a fireplace and chimney. The large central hallways opened in warm weather from front to back to form a breezeway. A simple portico was added later. In 1831, while Jackson was residing in the White House, he had the mansion remodeled under the direction of architect David Morrison. The new structure included flanking one-story wings, a one-story entrance portico with 10 columns, and a small rear portico that gave the house a Classical appearance.

In 1834, a chimney fire seriously damaged the house, with the exception of the dining room wing. This led to Jackson having the current 13-room, Greek Revival structure built on the same foundation as the former house. It was completed two years later. The architects for the house were Joseph Reiff and William C. Hume, who also built Tulip Grove across the road.

The mansion has a rectangular layout, about 104 ft from east to west and 54 ft from north to south. The south front is the location of the main entrance and includes a central block with a five-bay, two-story structure with a portico supported by six modified Corinthian style, wooden columns with a simple entablature resting on the capitals. Within the portico is a second-story balcony with simple square balusters. One-story wings with single fenestrations flank the mansion and extend beyond it to the front of the portico, enclosing it on three sides. While the southern façade gives the appearance of a flat roof, the three other elevations show that the tin-covered roof is pitched. The front façade was painted a light tan, and a sand coating was added to the columns and trim to simulate the appearance of stone. A near replica of the front portico is found on the north end of the house, although it features Doric-style columns and is capped with a pediment.

Interior
The layout of the main block of the house consists of four large rooms separated by a center hall. The entry hall with plank flooring painted dark is decorated with block-printed wallpaper by Joseph Dufour et Cie of Paris, depicting scenes from Telemachus' visit to the island of Calypso. At the far end of the hall is the elliptical cantilevered staircase with mahogany handrail that leads to the second level. To the left of the hall are the front and back parlors, featuring crystal chandeliers and Italian marble mantels. Leading from the front parlor is the dining room in the east wing.

Decorated with a high-gloss paint to reflect as much light as possible, the fireplace features a rustic mantelpiece called the "Eighth of January". It was carved by a veteran of the Battle of New Orleans, who worked on the mantelpiece on each anniversary of the battle until he finished on January 8, 1839. Jackson installed the piece on the next anniversary a year later on January 8, 1840. Adjacent to the dining room is a pantry and storage room that leads to an open passageway to the kitchen. This was built separate from the house to reduce the risk of fire to the main house as well as eliminate the noise, heat, and odors of cooking. To the right of the entrance hall, accessible via a side hall, are two bedrooms that were occupied by President Jackson and his son, Andrew Jackson, Jr. A spacious library and office used by Jackson and others to manage the site are located in the west wing.

On the second level are four bedrooms used by family members and guests, including Sam Houston, and Presidents James K. Polk and Martin Van Buren.

Grounds
The site today covers 1120 acre, which includes the original 1050 acre tract of Jackson's land. It is overseen and managed by The Andrew Jackson Foundation, formerly called the Ladies' Hermitage Association. The mansion is approached by a cedar-lined, 10 ft wide, guitar-shaped carriage drive designed by Ralph E. W. Earl. The design made it easier to maneuver carriages in the narrow space. To the east of the house was a 1 acre formal garden designed by Philadelphia-based gardener William Frost in 1819. Laid out in the English four-square kitchen garden style, it consists of four quadrants and a circular center bedroom contained by unusually long, beveled bricks and pebbled pathways. Originally, the garden was primarily used to produce food for the mansion and. secondarily, as an ornamental pleasure garden. It is surrounded by a white picket fence. On the north perimeter stands a brick privy that served as a status symbol as well as a garden feature.

After Rachel Jackson died in 1828, Jackson had her buried in the garden she loved. When he had the house remodeled in 1831, Jackson also had a Classicizing "temple & monument" constructed for Rachel's grave. Craftsmen completed the domed limestone tomb with a copper roof in 1832.

Behind the mansion, the property includes a smokehouse that dates to the early 19th century. The large brick smokehouse at the rear of the kitchen was built in 1831 and cured 20000 lb of pork per year. Nearby is a cabin known as Uncle Alfred's Cabin. Alfred Jackson was born enslaved to Andrew Jackson at the Hermitage around 1812 and worked there in various positions. After the Civil War, he stayed as a tenant farmer and later worked as caretaker and guide following the purchase of the estate in 1889 by the Ladies' Hermitage Association. Jackson died in 1901 and was buried near the tomb of the President and Mrs. Jackson.

Two other cabins were built from materials of the First Hermitage. After Jackson built the main house, the two-story log structure he had lived in for 15 years was disassembled, and the materials were used to build two one-story buildings used as workers' quarters.

From 1988 to 2005, teams conducted extensive archaeological investigations at the site. Their work revealed the location of an ice house behind the smokehouse and hundreds of thousands of artifacts. A brick triplex of cabins that was likely used by workers and artisans was discovered near the mansion yard. Archaeologists have identified 13 dwellings used by workers. Remains of three foundation pits suggest there were at least two log houses and four brick duplexes. The cotton gin and cotton press (used for baling) were located in one of the cotton fields just beyond the First Hermitage.

History
The site that Jackson named Hermitage was located 2 mi from the Cumberland and Stones Rivers after Native Americans had been pushed out of the region. The land was originally settled in 1780 by Robert Hays, who was the grand uncle of Texas Ranger John Coffee Hays and Confederate General Harry Thompson Hays. Hays sold the 420 acre farm to Jackson in 1804.

Cotton plantation
Jackson and his wife moved into the existing two-story log blockhouse, built to resist Indian attacks. A lean-to was added on the back of the cabin and to the rear, a group of log outbuildings were erected, including slave cabins, store rooms, and a smokehouse. This complex is known historically as the First Hermitage. Jackson started operations on his cotton farm with nine African slaves, but he continued to buy more laborers and owned 44 slaves by 1820. This scale of operation ranked him as a major planter and slaveholder in middle Tennessee, where most farmers owned zero or fewer than 10 slaves and 20 slaves marked a major planter. Some slave cabins for domestic servants and artisans were located near the main house. The majority, occupied by laborers, were located closer to the fields in an area known as the Field Quarter.

In 1818–1819, prior to his appointment as provisional Governor of the Florida Territory, Jackson built a brick house to replace the log structure he had lived in after purchasing the land. He also added six brick structures, containing a total of 13 20 by dwelling units for enslaved workers. These included a three-unit building known as the Triplex, built behind the mansion. A two-unit duplex known as the South Cabin was built at the First Hermitage. Four brick duplexes were built at the Field Quarter and were known as Cabins 1, 2, 3, and 4. At least one Field Cabin was still standing as late as the 1920s.

Elected President in 1828, Jackson enlarged the Hermitage during his first term. After an 1834 fire destroyed much of the interior of the house, he rebuilt and refurnished it. At the end of his second term in 1837, Jackson retired to the Hermitage, where he died in 1845. Andrew Jackson was buried in the garden next to his wife.

Throughout his life, Jackson expanded the site to an operation of 1000 acre, with 200 acre used for cotton, the commodity crop, and the remainder for food production and breeding and training racehorses. By 1840, more than 100 enslaved men, women, and children lived on the estate. This made the estate among the largest in the region; only 24 Tennessee estates in the 1850 census included more than 100 slaves. At the peak of operations, Jackson held 161 slaves in total: 110 at the Hermitage and 51 at Halcyon plantation in Coahoma County, Mississippi.

Jackson's adopted son, Andrew Jackson, Jr., inherited the estate, and Jackson's will also gave his son all slaves, except two boys (given to his grandchildren) and four women (given to Andrew Jr.'s wife, Sarah). Due to debt and bad investments, Jackson Jr. began selling off portions of the estate. In 1856, he sold the remaining 500 acre, the mansion, and the outbuildings to the State of Tennessee, with a provision that the Jackson family could remain in residence as caretakers of the estate. The state intended to turn over the property to the federal government for use as a southern branch of the United States Military Academy, but the outbreak of the American Civil War in 1861 disrupted this plan.

Civil War and afterwards

On May 5, 1863, units of the Union Army from Indiana approached the Hermitage. Pvt. Joseph C. Taylor wrote an account in his diary:

"At 2 this morning Co.'s according to previous agreement, saddled up and started for a big scout. About daylight we arrived at Stone River. Colonel McCook was with us. We used great caution while crossing the river. We formed a line of battle and crossed a Company at a time, forming a line on the opposite side. We all crossed in safety, and proceeded to the Hermitage of General A. Jackson, where we halted for a while. Thin by orders of the Colonel went to see the hermitage also the tomb of General A. Jackson. I will describe the place as well as I can. There is a nise gravel road from the Main road to the house. On each side of this mall there is a nise row of large cedar trees, which almost darken the passage as the branches meet overhead. When in 20 steps of the front door, this road forks and directly in front is a space in the shape of a heart. Around this the road runs, which enables the carriage to come up to the door. This heart is enclosed by a similar row of cedars. The inside of this heart, and also on each side of the carriage way is thickly set with pines, cedars and other shrubbery of long standing, which almost excludes the sun shining on the ground. There is nise gravel walks leading to every place that a person want to go. From appearances those walks are but little used, as the grass is growing in the walks to some extent. We then went in the garden which is situated on the East of the house. Which is between the house and the Lebanon Pike, and is full of shrubbery and flowers of all kinds. Also walks running in all directions which beautifies the place and also give it a cold look to me, as I never saw a garden arrainged in this fashion. In the South East corner of this garden stands the monument of General Andrew Jackson. General Jackson lies on the South side of the tomb. His head in the direction of West, his feet to the East. His wife lies on the North and 2 infant children lie on the South of the tomb. It is all together a dark and secluded spot and looks to me as though it was very old fassion."

Museum
Andrew Jackson's grandson, Andrew Jackson III, and his family were the last to occupy the Hermitage. The family moved out in 1893, and it ceased being a family residence. The Hermitage was opened to the public by the Ladies' Hermitage Association, who had been deeded the property by the state of Tennessee for use as a museum of both Jackson's life and the antebellum South in general. The Association restored the mansion to its 1837 appearance. Over time, the organization bought back all the land that had been sold, taking ownership of the last parcel that restored the site boundaries in 2003.

The Hermitage escaped disaster during the 1998 Nashville tornado outbreak. An F-3 tornado crossed the property at about 4 p.m. on April 16, 1998, missing the house and grave site but toppling 1,000 trees on the estate, many that were reportedly planted by Jackson himself nearly 200 years earlier. The trees once hid the house from passers-by on U.S. Route 70, but their loss left the mansion in plain sight.

Using wood from the fallen trees, Gibson Guitar Corporation produced 200 limited-edition "Old Hickory" guitars. The first guitar produced was presented to the Smithsonian, although, it was not on display.

The mansion is the most accurately preserved early presidential home in the country. Each year, the home receives more than a quarter million visitors, making it the fourth-most-visited presidential residence in the country (after the White House, Mount Vernon, and Monticello). The property was declared a National Historic Landmark in 1960.

Based on archaeological excavations and other research, the Hermitage mounted an exhibition on slave life at the plantation in 2005. It is installed in the Visitor Center and provides much more focus on the lives of enslaved African American families at the plantation, ranging from the domestic staff to field laborers.

Confederate Soldiers Home Cemetery

Part of the Hermitage estate that passed in to public hands became the site of the state-funded Confederate Soldiers Home, a residential facility that housed poor and disabled Confederate veterans beginning in 1892. More than 480 veterans who died there were buried in an onsite cemetery, each marked with a white, military-style gravestone and arrayed in circles around a monumental stone.

Enslaved Memorial
In 2006, the remains of 61 enslaved people who had been the legal property of Rachel Jackson's nephews were discovered near the Hermitage. Their burials were unmarked, but they were arranged in family groups and were estimated to range in age from 1 to 45. The Ladies Hermitage Association took charge of their burials in a new common grave on the Hermitage site. Atop their reburial, a memorial was built in 2009 in remembrance of the enslaved people of the area. The site design, "Our Peace: Follow the Drinking Gourd—A Monument to the Enslaved," proposed by Aaron Lee Benson, includes an unmarked stone wall over the burial site and seven trees arranged in the shape of the Little Dipper. Both the constellation and "follow the drinking gourd" refer to the practice of navigating by the North Star to escape from slavery.

Legacy
The city in Davidson County where the Hermitage is located is known as Hermitage, Tennessee. A hotel named the Hermitage Hotel, located in downtown Nashville, opened in 1910 and is still operating. Many celebrities and U.S. presidents have spent time there.

In popular culture

 * The Hermitage is prominently featured in one of the opening scenes of F. Scott Fitzgerald's unfinished novel, The Last Tycoon (1941), when the narrator, Celia, visits it with two other characters.
 * The Hermitage was one of the filming locations and settings for the 1955 Disney film Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier.

title: The Hermitage (Nashville, Tennessee)


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Talk:Twelve-string guitar

Usage
In the section of this article titled "Usage" the article reads "Use of twelve-string electric guitar almost appears to be cyclical: beginning with Blind Willie McTell in the '20s and '30s, Lead Belly in the '40s..." Now, I hate to be a doubting Thomas, but I'm pretty sure that Blind Willie McTell never used an electric guitar and certainly not an electric twelve. I'm also about 99% certain that Leadbelly never used an electric twelve. This section is also just a couple of very long and somewhat confusing freight train sentences. This leads me to suggest that perhaps the "Usage" section be re-written. Don (talk) 15:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Comments
I just bought a 12-string acoustic guitar today. I've only been playing guitar (6-string) for 9-months, and this is the first time I've ever played a twelve string. Bar chords are harder, but not that much. It just took me a few trys and they sound fine now. Strumming is by far easiest on a 12-string, it's pretty hard to hit both strings when you try to play solos. It definitely wears you out a lot faster than the 6-string, I can only strum like about 5 chord progressions, then my left hand is tired. Nathan, 5-19-05

I don't mean to sound snide, but one can tell that you don't play the 12-string. It doesn't sound, feel or handle anything like a banjo. The problem with it is indeed what Kat calls cacophony, not the fact that strings are hard to fret. There are so many strings that ring that it's very easy to destroy a tune and just sound loud. This is why often a 6-string is preferable. The sound of a 12-string is so brilliant and rich to be hard to handle. Frank, May 1, 2005

Hmm, plucking individual strings. When picking a 12 string, one plucks the strings in pairs (courses) much as one would a lute. It can be done. The problems with plucking pale by comparison to the gymnastics of the left hand, particularly where bar cords are involved. You know you might have been practicing the 12 string if you can pull off a full bar cord and have all 12 notes sound true with no buzzing. Gordon Bok does this effectively on his album, A Rogue's Gallery of Songs for the 12 String. He's an obscure artist, so I wasn't sure that he is worthy of mention here, but then again he's the only one I can think of who has recorded a whole album of solo 12 string.

Last sentence. I really thought cacophony was the operative word. I didn't want to put this in the article, but the real benefit to me of a 12 string is that it allows one person to sound like a whole rhythm section. Almost, anyway; the impression one makes when playing a 12 string well is that of more than one instrument being played. To be sure, there is some greater brightness what with the doubling of the bass, but that doesn't quite capture the essence of the effect.

Tensions and gauges. They aren't standardized entirely, in that there are somewhat softer and harder stringings available in the standard packs. Some guitarists make up their own stringings, picking out one string at a time. I can look up the gauges if you really think it would help. Not sure how to come up with the tensions, as I don't have a handy reference for that.

Kat 03:13, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Feel free to rephrase :-) I haven't really played 12-string at all, so some of that was guesswork. I'm sure it's possible to play lead parts with 12-strings, and I'm sure many have done it; I was looking for a good explanation why it's not usually the case. As for pulling a bar chord; doesn't that have a lot to do with the string gauges and tension? Thicker gauges on any other guitar are harder to pull than thinner ones (due in part to the extra string tension); I would presume there are thin gauges for 12-string that make barring more feasible. But again, I lack experience here.

 * Cacophony seems like a poor word, unless you want to imply that 12-strings sound more jarring and dissonant than 6-strings. Perhaps rich, lush, elaborate, etc. might be better. Of course, talented guitarists can make even a 6-string (or 4-string bass, for that matter) sound like more than one instrument is being played. -- Wapcaplet 03:53, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * I'll have to do some checking on the wiki-thesaurus ;-) to see if that perfect turn of phrase can't be found.

Should there be a mention of Nashville Tuning? If I'm not mistaken, isn't that basically a twelve string guitar with only the second set of strings? Adam Bishop 03:38, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * I've never heard of this. Kat

 * Hmm...well, basically the B and high E strings are the same but the other strings are an octave higher. I just assumed someone once had a 12-string guitar and decided to use only the second set of strings. Some Pink Floyd songs use that tuning, and presumably some country songs (hence Nashville, I guess :)) Adam Bishop 17:15, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It's not difficult to play bar chords on a twelve-string. It is difficult to pluck out individual strings, and rather less difficult to pick a single course (the gap between courses is less than it is on an equivalent 6-string, and plucking the twin notes cleanly requires a nice soft right hand). In summary, the problems presented by the 12-string to the left hand are small and easily overcome, the problems presented to the right hand are significant. (And yes, I have owned three or four 12-string guitars and played them for over 20 years. Six strings also, and bass, but I was always very fond of my 12-strings.) Tannin

 * I suppose it depends on the person. When I was playing a lot, I could play bar chords.  I've never heard of trying to play a single string except when tuning up.  I never found the right hand especially difficult, though I would burn up fingernails pretty quickly if I didn't use those metal finger picks. Kat

List of significant 12-string players
Why would Slash be on there? Every hair metal axeman would occasionally bust out the twelver for power ballads and such--e.g., "Dead or Alive" by Bon Jovi--but none of these represent especially notable contributions when compared to McGuinn, Page, or Marr. --Slightlyslack 02:40, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

-- Slash played a Gibson SG-1275 for almost all of the shows on the Use Your Illusion World Tour, especially for the Wild Horses & Knockin' On Heaven's Door medley and, occasionally, the Mother & Paradise City medley. With Velvet Revolver, on the Contraband tour, he played an Acoustic/Electric double-neck 12/6 (I've forgotten what model) for You Got No Right. --Solidius 05:14, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Twelve strings vary at least as much as six string instruments. Some are almost impossible to do clear barre chords on (an old line mentions the need for Popeye's forearms, and indeed I can show you the muscle I developed over time...) while others are really quite easy to barre. The action of the instrument is everything.
 * I have a J-200-12 now (really) and it is a *very* easy instrument to play!

The neck is straight and the action low. Now that said, it is NOT a big old warhorse like an old Guild. You can "overplay" it--think harpsicord rather than pipe organ. But what tone!
 * The trickier thing is to play a 12 str *clearly*. If you want excellent 'definition' of the notes, get a nice smaller body six. But if you want to try something that rewards fewer notes with importance and grandeur, well there is a 'best bet' for you! Get a 12.
 * I promise you, they can be great fun and a wonderful inspiration.

Players of acoustic twelves fall into two main catagories. The premier example of each would be 1.(of course) Leadbelly ("The King of the Twelve String" and according to George Gruhn, probably THE reason they still exist!)and conversely someone like Mark Spoelstra, who plays a twelve with the clarity most of us would be happy with on a six. Get his first Folkways album and listen to "Buckdancer's Choice #2". It is amazing!

Leadbelly type players include Fred Gerlach, who has wonderful drama in his arrangements, Eric Darling (the few pieces he has on his solo LPs can be played with a heavy right thumb; he also was a founder of the Rooftop Singers, famous for the two 12s in the trio and "Walk Right In".), and of course Pete Seeger, although he also branched out some. Dave "Snaker" Ray (of Koerner, Ray & Glover fame) was a magnificent player and singer, and Paul Geremia also fits in here, too. And I must mention a contemporary of Leadbelly's, "The Lone Cat', Jesse Fuller, who wrote "San Francisco Bay Blues". Leadbelly thought he was the only 12 player, not so. And I wish I could have heard the music when those two finally sat down together!

The best finger pickers to my ear are Mark Spoelstra (who is why my first guitar was a 12), and certainly Leo Kotke.

Everyone else just uses 12s as another color on their palette. Even if some of them, like Glen Cambell, could really play! Even the Beatles had a go at it. Listen to "Hide Your Love Away", a very spare arrangement for them.

Also, the Leadbelly types string the instrument differently than most more modern players. On their boxes the first three (high pitch) pairs are unisons, then the next two pairs (#4 & 5) are ONE octave apart, and the bass, 6th pair is TWO octaves apart (So a regular sixth string and a regular first string!). Leadbelly also used heavy gauge strings and tuned about four frets, or semitones, low!
 * The "modern" setup is first two pairs in unison, and the lower four pairs all ONE octave apart. That is the way I have always played, but I would love to try a big, old box strung up the old way! And even though I string in the modern mode, I have always tuned two or three frets low.

Nashville tuning is indeed just the "thin strings" of the pairs put on a six. Nashvile studio types love to add that sound to a group session (indeed, how many guitars can you have going before it all goes mushy? This tactic gives another flavor to the stew...). But I have never heard it used very much by a solo player. Try it on a spare guitar sometime, kinda fun. But it's much better in a group.

They are wonderful, and I have never been without at least one in the bunch!

--- Alan Sparhawk plays a Danelectro 12-string.

Chris de Burgh during The Road to Freedom performances was using electric 12 string guitars exclusively as far as I'm aware (in terms of guitars, he did play a piano as well). Matheau 15:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC) Matthew 04 September 2006

Title problem.
I believe the title should be Twelve-string guitar. Can someone move it to a new title? Mengsk 21:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Removed some incorrect information
Traditional Brazilian music does not use a 12-string. It uses a 10-string guitar ("viola" is the name of the 10-string, not the style), typically with different tunings from the 12-string. A link on the 10-string: --LodeRunner 22:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

stringing a twelve string...Apart from being a bitch to tune
i recently saw a twelve string strung with the light string before rather than after the heavy string on a downward strum is this correct or is it just personal choice —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.152.80.13 (talk) 18:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

 * that is the normal stringing for an acoustic 12. rickenbacker switched it around for their electrics and i guess it's backmigrated to acoustics? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 21:49, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Maybe it's a lefty Garr1984 02:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)§

Tony Banks
Since Hackett, Rutherford and Phillips are mentioned, maybe Tony Banks should be too? He frequently played 12-string on Genesis studio albums and stage performances. Whitespacebug 16:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Standardized spelling?
Wow, this article needs a lot of work to sound encyclopedic. But I think at the very least there should be a standardized spelling (if that's the right word) for twelve string/twelve-string/12 string/12-string. The article title is currently "Twelve string", so that would be the obvious choice (although I personally would prefer "12-string"). --emw 16:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This needs correcting. Is it "twelve string" or "12 string"?  The article uses both.  --Dan East 22:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I changed to 12-string per MOS number, but cannot retitle (or even should be?)76.189.141.88 (talk) 23:09, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Players?
Could someone make a separate article called List of twelve-string guitar players or something?

--TimNelson 05:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - the lists seem like a way of making a very short article seem more full...

--85.210.40.201 22:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't find the list of musicians in this post very useful because it contains just about anyone who aver got close to a 12-string. Jimi Hendrix played the 12-string once in a studio, because it was the only thing they had there, but can hardly be called a 12-string guitarist. On the other hand, many people bought a 12-string because they liked Leo Kottke, but he is hardly mentioned. He should have a section only for himself because of how important he was for the instrument. I would prune the list drastically. urashimataro, Nov. 25, 2007

No one should get their own section, because whether or not he made it popular, there were a ton of others who made the same contribution to the popularity of the instrument. Anyway, there should be a set criteria for the list, and every addition should be checked, and after cutting it down, if it is still longer than the actual information on the instrument, it should be moved to a seperate location. This list desperatly needs uniforn formatting and a lot of clean up as well. I just had to take Steve Howe off because he was on the list of notable acustic players twice... With the formatting, every musician should have the name of the group or groups they were in when they used a twelve-string, or if it was in a solo work, that should be noted instead, because it looks awful as it is.

-Unoriginal Username (talk) 19:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Leo Kottke was indeed a big contributor to the popularity of the 12-string, but I still don't think he should get his own section, only his place on the list. And Jimi Hendrix also used a 12-string on a music video of Hear My Train A Comin' (that's not the one, and I'm actually not sure if Hear My Train A Comin' was the one I was thinking of :P). But he's not exactly a big contributor, and I don't think he should be on the list, even though he's one of my favourite guitarists, and definitely made the electric guitar a lot more popular. The list shouldn't be acoustic/electric/whatever guitar used, IMO it should be in chronological order, and it should be a lot shorter. As of writing this, the electric section is completely empty (vandalism?). I'm not exactly the one to rewrite it though, since I've never even played a 12-string (only six strings for me), and I thought I'd get someone else's opinion first. -- Kankkis (talk) 19:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Article name
There's been a bit of discussion over the years as to the article name, with twelve string guitar and 12 string guitar most popular. I don't think there's any clear leader, there are many authorities and no consistency. I've renamed ten string guitar to fit the pattern that's been adopted by default here for the moment. Other ideas welcome. Andrewa (talk) 17:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

And sombody else immediately changed it back! See Talk:Ten-string guitar. Andrewa (talk) 04:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Back in the day, my English teacher's rule was numbers up to ten were always spelled out and above ten were in numerals unless at the start of a sentence. Numerals were used in all cases in lists, tables and the like. So if we follow this rule, we would use "12" except at the start of a sentence. However, the question of whether or not to use a hyphen is more complicated. It seems to me that there tends to be a progression in similar cases where one starts out with the two words separately, moves to a hyphen after the phrase starts to become established, and eventually end up with the two words run together if the particular usages becomes established enough. Personally, since there are various types of guitars with various string configurations I would favor unhyphened, but that's merely my own opinion. I doubt that there is any one universally accepted standard, and I expect that there are varying rules regarding both the use of numerals and hyphens that there is no one authority that we can turn to. Wschart (talk) 14:02, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 05:29, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Twelve string guitar → Twelve-string guitar — Attempt at a convention, so please indicate either way whether you also support this format for other guitar articles — Andrewa (talk) 14:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

 * Support as nominator. This seems the best of several options, and will I hope set a precedent either way. Andrewa (talk) 15:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Support ... yeah, for a variety of reasons, the form with a hyphen and with the number spelled out seems the most reasonable. i support the form being used for titles of other guitar articles as well. Sssoul (talk) 12:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

This was discussed briefly above under Standardized spelling? but no conclusion was reached, and more recently of course at Article name above and most significantly at Talk:Ten-string guitar. The issues are:

 * Should the name include a hyphen? See Manual of Style.

 * Should the number be expressed as numerals or spelled out?

So far as a common name is concerned, it seems to me that all four possibilities (hyphen or no, numerals or spelled out) are in common use. So far as WP:NC is concerned, all four possibilites would be equally easily recognised by both native and non-native English speakers.

I am seeking here a precedent that can be applied also to other guitar articles, such as Seven-string guitar and Eight-string guitar which already follow the proposed convention, and of course Ten-string guitar which inspired this move proposal.

I am not however seeking at this stage to clarify any wider convention, that is to resolve either issue in any article other than those concerning guitars with a particular number of strings. So I suggest leaving discussion of articles such as for example 5 star rank to another place and time. Andrewa (talk) 15:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Note also that the Seven-string guitar article currently reads ''There are eight-string and ten-string guitars in use as well, but these are even less common. Twelve-string guitars are more common...'', that is, the twelve-string is the most common of these guitars, and I agree with this (unsourced) claim. The only one that is even a possible contender is the seven-string adding a bass B below the normal bass E string, versions of which have considerable following in classical guitar, orchestral and jazz music.

So if we were to decide that some other convention is appropriate for this article, there could be a case for applying it to the articles about these rarer variants. Andrewa (talk) 16:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Other possibly affected articles are Eight string bass guitar and Twelve-string bass. Andrewa (talk) 17:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

A more detailed look at hyphens
I've been doing some work on the twelve-string bass article, and it raises some interesting issues on the matter of the hyphen. Basically, there's an instrument produced now by several makers with four courses each of three strings, and it's called the twelve-string bass (with hyphen). There are also basses of other, rarer configurations also with twelve strings, and these are twelve string basses (no hyphen, so it's just a description of a bass with twelve strings) but not twelve-string basses (with hyphen, so it's the name of the specific instrument).

This seems to work in favour of the current proposal as well. The twelve-string guitar has six courses of two strings each, and that's what this article is about. If we found another type of guitar with twelve strings in a different configuration, it would still be a twelve string guitar but not a twelve-string guitar.

It also works in favour of the current resolution of the discussion that triggered this. The article on ten-string guitar is about instruments by that name. The most common baroque guitar is also a guitar with ten strings, and is a far more significant instrument than either of the modern ten-string designs, but it's not commonly called a ten-string guitar, although it could accurately be described as a ten string guitar. Andrewa (talk) 20:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

"is a far more significant instrument than either of the modern ten-string designs". This is your OPINION and you seem hardly qualified as a musicologist or serious music critic or even performer to be making this judgement. Frankly, you should educate yourself on the correct grammatical use of hyphens. "Twelve string basses" would grammatically signify twelve separate instruments (string basses, or contrabass violins). The above makes no sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.94.133.166 (talk) 06:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I won't reply to the personal attacks above, and the claim that the above makes no sense is vague enough to require no reply. As to the significance of the various instruments, Google gives me 88,600 ghits for baroque guitar, as opposed to 547 for modern ten-string guitar and ten (10) for romantic ten-string guitar. (Your totals may of course vary slightly as Google takes the requestors's location into account.) While Google is not God, these figures are disparate enough to make a prima facie case as to the greater significance of the baroque guitar.

But I could easily be wrong about the significance of any of these instruments. There's no doubt in my mind that they all exist and all have their enthusiasts, and I'd be very interested in any evidence you can offer that these other ten string guitars are of equal or greater significance when compared to the baroque guitar.

Lastly, it's certainly true that twelve string basses could refer to twelve of the instrument known as a string bass rather than to an indefinite number of the instrument known as a twelve string bass. This is an example of ambiguity, and it's very common in English. But so far as I can see, twelve string bass is unambiguous. Andrewa (talk) 14:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

12 string guitar gauges
(cross posted from Wikiproject Guitarists Hello, I went to the Twelve-string guitar for help with set up. I've never bought a '12 string set' of strings and have usually winged it with 2 sets of strings at differernt gauges, but I've never been quite sure I've got it right. I've usually set it so the bass E A D and G are at octaves of each other and then tuned identical B's and treble E's to the same pitch as each other. Might something be added to the article to suggest the most common set up? Even better, would be to also list typical string gauges as well as the notes they are tuned to. Regards --Joopercoopers (talk) 12:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Good idea. But in Australia, 12 string sets are very common... I have never had any trouble buying them. Normally they have the setup you describe above, with octave G, but unison G is preferred by many electic guitarists. I think we need an article on string gauge. Andrewa (talk) 09:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. --Joopercoopers (talk) 09:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The pictures...
I'm not so much complaining as I am curious - why are both pictures of Maton guitars? Fine guitars, I am sure, but not that well known outside of their native Australia. The electric 12-string picture in particular, which shows a Maton Magnetone which is said to be a copy of a Rickenbacker 360/12 - why not a picture of an actual Rickenbacker? It's probably nothing, I just find it odd that those particular pictures have been used. -- Snograt  talk here 15:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

 * It's very simple... I own Maton guitars (by choice, but then I'm an Aussie), and so don't currently have a Rickie or Gibson to photograph! They're all excellent guitars, although I found the Rickie 360/12 I played for a while a lot bluesier than the Magnetone, which has a sweet tone all of its own, much less of a Rickie copy than it looks, and it's strung conventionally with the E octave as string 12 not 11 for example (so you'd need to modify the head nut to string it Rickie style). The Gibson 12s I've played have been superb, but a little too sweet for my taste, the Fenders a bit bluesie. For me the Matons hit the balance. But agree that they're not typical, and examples from the USA (the birthplace of the modern 12 after all) would be preferable. Ideally a Rickie 360/12 and a Gibson Hummingbird IMO. Andrewa (talk) 17:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Use for lead
"Because it is substantially more difficult to pluck individual strings on the twelve-string guitar, and almost impossible to bend notes tunefully, the instrument is rarely used for lead musical parts." This would be news to both George Harrison as well as Roger McGuinn. "Rarely" seems to be a bit of a weasel word: when does "rarely" transform into, for example, "occasionally". Whether or not 12 is used for lead work depends to a large degree on the genre of music: it was not all that uncommon in the "folk" revival of the late 50s and early 60s (think "Walk Right In", British Invasion (the Hollies used on on occasion, in addition to the Beatles), and folk-rock. Wschart (talk) 18:13, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Bajo sexto ?
I’ve encountered some difficulties in pointing out the differences between a twelve string gt and a bajo sexto.

I’m not a musician at all, but, as far as I can read, both gtrs look the same, each one w/ 12 strings in 6 double courses.

Would main differences rely upon their size ? type of wood ? tuning ? no electric bajo sexto ?

I find it rather odd that neither a single word is said about bajo sexto nor a link to it is made in the 12 string gt article

Thanks for any help :-)

--Bibliorock (talk) 09:51, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Among the 39 registered watchers of this article, would a musician be kind enough to answer me... and some other readers ?

Thanks in advance :-) --Bibliorock (talk) 06:06, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

 * A Bajo Sexto is a bass, It's tuned with bass notes, and it translates to "sixth bass". I think that answers that question. Captain Superman (talk) 06:05, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Merci beaucoup, sincèrement :-) --Bibliorock (talk) 02:53, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

History?
I'm not knowlegable enough to do it, but it would be helpful to have a "History" section discussing the origins and spread of the instrument.

For instance, (I'm not sure how to add such a long quote, with internal citations, or if we would include only parts of it?):

From: The Influences of Hispanic Music Cultures on African-American Blues Musicians, Peter Narváez, Black Music Research Journal, Vol. 22, Supplement: Best of BMRJ (2002), pp. 175-196, Center for Black Music Research - Columbia College, Chicago and University of Illinois Press

Quoting: [without including internal citation information] "More immediate musical links with Mexican players can be heard in the music of Blind Lemon Jefferson's partner, Huddie Ledbetter (1888-1949), a.k.a. "Leadbelly," who migrated to Dallas from Louisiana, met Jefferson in 1912 and played regularly with him for five years. A talented singer and multi-instrumentalist (guitar, mandolin, accordion, and harmonica), at some point Leadbelly encountered Mexican-made bajosextos and twelve-string guitars, instruments originally from central Mexico which at the time were emerging, along with the accordion, as core instruments of border conjuntos (Pefia 1985, 38-39, 54). When he first played these instruments, "his fingers got to 'mashing too hard"' (Wolfe and Lornell 1992, 51), but he soon mastered a technique that, as Texas blues historian Alan Govenar (1988, 19) has noted, was "learned from the bass figures of barrelhouse pianists and from the Mexicans who sold him a twelve-string guitar." A comparison of Leadbelly's twelve-string bass runs with those of accomplished Mexican-American singer-guitarist Lydia Mendoza reveals startling similarities in rhythms and marcato attack; for example, consider her "El lirio" ("The Lily"; 1934) and Leadbelly's rendition of "Sweet Jenny Lee" (1948). Given the popularity of waltz rhythm among cantadores,it is noteworthy that one of the first songs Leadbelly adapted to the twelve-string guitar was "Irene," a waltz he learned from his uncle Bob Ledbetter (Wolfe and Lornell 1992, 52-53)."

I'd like to have more references like that to where early players go their instruments and developed their style. Were 12 strings all developed from the Bajo Sexto? That would be interesting to know. --Accordion Noir (talk) 18:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Chorus effect
The article says n the "Chorus effect" section that the dual strings are tuned to exactly the same pitch, yet produce a beat effect through phase difference. That is, of course, not possible - beat is by definition produced by a difference in frequency. Phase difference produces interference.

So either the strings are not tuned to exactly the same frequency, or the effect produced is not beat.

178.10.186.69 (talk) 12:18, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

 * The way I've heard it, it is difficult to tune the two strings to exactly the same frequency, or in the case of the lower strings, to exactly an octave. So you're going to get a bit of a beat. I suspect that when fretting one course, the different gauge strings will react slightly differently and hence the intonation will be slightly different. Plus you get some beats even in a six because the guitar is fretted to equal temperament and the intervals are as a consequence slightly out of tune. Wschart (talk) 04:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Origin Incorrect
The bajo sexto is not a "likely" ancestor of the 12-string guitar, but a relatively recent descendent of the 12-string guitar. Bajo sextos first appeared in the early 20th century (sometime after 1916), whereas 12 string guitars go back to the 19th century, and were being sold in catalogs by 1898. The origin of the modern 12-string guitar is either from a rediscovery of double-strung baroque guitars and lutes, or as an offshoot of the development of the harp guitar, and most likely from elements of both.

"Notable players" list too long
As seems to be usual with these types of articles, the list of "notable players" is far too long, and filled with irrelevant detail.

I submit that a "notable player" is not simply any guitarist who happens to have used a 12-string guitar in their act now and then, but one who either: 1) uses 12-string as their primary (or one of their primary) instruments most of the time (e.g., Ledbelly; Ralph Towner; Leo Kotke); or  2) who is responsible for using the instrument an uncommon genre, or in an especially unusual -- and therefore notable -- way within a genre (e.g. Larry Coryell; Pat Metheny).

I suggest a savage editing of this list of notables, and reducing it to a dozen or so of the truly notable *12-string* players, with perhaps a link to a separate list of "12-string guitarists" -- as has been done with other genres.

 * I've cleaned a lot of this up, alphabetized names within categories, and removed a lot of fluff. Basically, if a guitarist's own bio didn't mention "12-string", and I couldn't verify that 12-string had either been their major instrument, or that they had used the instrument in a particularly noteworthy way, I took them off the list.  What's left is a reasonably representative sampling, covering a broad range of genres, but which doesn't clutter up the article with a long generic list of people's "favorite guitarists who once looked at a 12-string."
 * 74.95.43.249 (talk) 04:34, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

 * The effort is appreciated. However, I note that since that overhaul, the article has bloated back to its previous size, almost entirely due to list additions. Time perhaps for the next step. Weeb Dingle (talk) 08:43, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

SUGGESTION — I am preparing to move all the fanboy trivia off to List of people who may have played a twelve-string guitar at least once. I will also consider for inclusion nominations of characters from fiction (published or not) and anime, as well as any dimly remembered family stories about Great-Grampa. Opinions? Weeb Dingle (talk) 08:21, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Would be better to just pare it down or delete it. We should not encourage this behavior at Wikipedia at all, and passing the buck doesn't fix it.  The list should be pared down to guitarists who used a 12-string guitar as their primary instrument, and/or who were particularly noted for skill or innovation on it.  -- Jayron 32 13:08, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, the entire list should have references for each individual entry. -- Jayron 32 13:09, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I like a criterion mentioned a few years back, namely that an individual is not "a 12-string player" unless a properly cited source clearly SAYS so. If that's a bit too strict, then at least mention must be made in that person's WP article (with, of course, a valid citation). And if neither standard has been met, then the name drops off the list — period. Weeb Dingle (talk) 07:26, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with that criterion for inclusion on this page.
 * I'd also like to suggest that all those people who have been mentioned as playing 12-string should be placed in a list article "List of twelve-string guitar players" or a category "Twelve-string guitar players". Tayste (edits) 21:39, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Notable players list workspace
I'm creating this section to allow us to fix and build the list before returning it to the main page. As an entirely uncited list without criteria, we can move back entries once we have a) guitarists who meet the criteria because b) we include a direct inline citation to verify that they meet the criteria. -- Jayron 32 13:11, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Performers who have used 12-string guitar as one of their primary instruments, or in a notable way, span a range of genres: • Ambient

• * Steve Tibbetts

• Blues/Ragtime

• * Lead Belly (Huddie Ledbetter)

• * Blind Willie McTell

• Classic rock

• * Paul Brett

• Folk/Americana

• * Robbie Basho

• * James Blackshaw

• * Gordon Bok

• * Bob Gibson

• * Leo Kottke

• * Gordon Lightfoot

• * Roo Panes

• * Keith Potger of The Seekers

• * Dick Rosmini

• * Pete Seeger with The Weavers

• Folk rock

• * John Allan Cameron

• Jazz

• * John McLaughlin

• * Ralph Towner of Oregon

• Rock

• * Mike Rutherford (Genesis)

• * David Gilmour (Pink Floyd)

• * George Harrison (The Beatles)

• * Justin Hayward (Moody Blues)

• * Wayne Hussey (The Mission UK)

• * Roger McGuinn of the Byrds

• * Michael Nesmith of the Monkees and the First National Band

• * Hilton Valentine of The Animals

• Rockabilly

• * Billy Strange

• Shoegaze

• * Mark Gardener of Ride

Electric Rickenbacker 12-string users include a range of jangle pop guitarists:
 * Johnny Marr of The Smiths
 * George Harrison of The Beatles
 * Roger McGuinn of The Byrds
 * Hilton Valentine of The Animals
 * Tom Petty
 * Carl Wilson of The Beach Boys
 * Marty Willson-Piper of The Church

Users of other electric 12-string models:
 * Elvis Presley
 * Pete Townshend of The Who
 * Mark Knopfler
 * Lou Reed and Sterling Morrison of The Velvet Underground
 * Gene Clark of The Byrds
 * Josh Klinghoffer of Red Hot Chili Peppers
 * Kurt Vile
 * Peter Holmstrom of The Dandy Warhols
 * Anton Newcombe, Ricky Maymi and various other members of The Brian Jonestown Massacre
 * John Dwyer of Thee Oh Sees
 * Andy White aka Andy Boay of Tonstartssbandht, Mac DeMarco

The Gibson EDS-1275 electric 12-string has been used by:
 * Mikael Åkerfeldt of Opeth
 * Jeff Buckley
 * The Edge of U2
 * Don Felder of The Eagles
 * Warren Haynes of Gov't Mule and The Allman Brothers Band
 * Alex Lifeson of Rush
 * Daron Malakian of System of a Down and Scars on Broadway
 * John McLaughlin of Mahavishnu Orchestra
 * Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine
 * Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin,
 * Slash of Guns N' Roses

names that should be removed from the foregoing list
Start right at the top. Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:38, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Per his article, Ariel Camacho played a requinto, a short-scale guitar with nylon strings. Since the present article begins The twelve-string guitar is a steel-string guitar, this entry quickly has three strikes against it. (Actually, the claim "He quickly became known for his expressive way of playing the requinto" is not substantiated by an outside source.) Fail.
 * Steve Tibbetts? Well, he's a friend of a friend, so I'm biased by OR. However, the sole cited source in his article is a dead link so therefore invalid. At best, on the cusp.
 * Cazenave: no mention AT ALL of string number. Fail.
 * Rev Davis: no mention at all. The article in fact shows him with a six-string. Fail.
 * Ledbetter: okay, Mister Twelve-String himself. Cited sources are questionable and largely third-hand, but meets present criteria. Success.
 * McTell: claimed twice, no corroboration, BUT he recorded the LP Atlanta Twelve String. Success.
 * Campbell: certainly used an Ovation 12 ("Southern Nights" for instance), but entirely NOT mentioned in article. Fail.
 * McMurtry: not mentioned AT ALL in article proper. Fail.
 * Roy Clark: no mention. Fail.
 * Paul Brett: why is he under Classical when his article says "classic rock"??? While he endorsed a line of acoustic instruments, no claim made that he played one, but he did record 12 String Guitar & Beyond. Success.
 * Basho: no source to support sole claim, but recorded Art of the Acoustic Steel String Guitar 6 & 12. Success.

 * I think this page should only mention people who are (1) wp:notable enough to have their own page here and that (2) their page mentions that the 12-string guitar was their main instrument for at least a significant period in their career. That is, famous specifically for playing 12-string. Is that approximately the criteria being used? Tayste (edits) 21:32, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Weeb Dingle (talk) 15:38, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * ADD — folkie Gordon Bok: content possibly stolen from AllMusic.com (cited) which does mention 12-string. Also recorded A Rogue's Gallery of Songs for the 12 String (1999).
 * REMOVED — all of the yak-yak text added by fanboy "citizen journalists" because this is A LIST. Go put that stuff in the article proper.

There's a proliferation of "barely" names that might be readily corrected by someone more sympathetic than me, or can be cut. There seems to be a trend here. Anyone may step in and remove the fails from the foregoing list. Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:15, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Blackshaw: mentioned, and supported by AllMusic. Success.
 * Geremia: no string count. Fail.
 * Gibson: mentioned in article, but unsupported. Success, but barely.
 * Neil Jacobs: no article. Fail.
 * Kottke: multiple mentions, credibly supported. Success.
 * Lightfoot: claimed, but supporting ref is dead; photo playing a 12. Success, but barely.
 * Panes: claim made, but unsupported. Success, but barely.
 * Potger: poorly cited in article, but supported by referenced Seekers site. Success.
 * Reid: claimed, but no references at all. Fail.
 * Rosmini: claimed, supported by obituatry (cited), recorded Adventures for 12-String, 6-String and Banjo. Success.
 * Seeger: claimed, external support. Success.
 * Tim Buckley: no mention. Fail.
 * Cameron: mention and photo, but not explicitly supported. Success, but barely.
 * Nathanson: mention, but no support offered. Fail.
 * Paul Simon: no mention. Fail.
 * Dave Mason: mention, no support offered. Fail.
 * Butler: mention, but unsupported by only unbroken link. Fail.
 * Breau: no mention. Fail.
 * Catherine: no mention. Fail.
 * Coryell: no mention. Fail.
 * McLaughlin: mention, supported. Success.
 * Metheny: claimed, but entirely unsupported. Fail.
 * Towner: claimed, but poorly supported. Passing mention of 12 on one label site (cited). Success, but barely.
 * Marley: no mention. Fail.
 * Bowie: no mention. Fail.
 * Etheridge: no mention. Fail.
 * Farrar: no mention. Fail.
 * Felder: mentions signature version of Gibson EDS-1275, but no support offered. Fail.
 * Gallagher: no mention. Fail.
 * I've removed the first wave. Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:33, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

names to be removed II

 * Genesis (band): "Several songs … originated on 12-string guitars" claimed but unsupported. (Instruments apparently playing without human aid.) Success, barely.
 * Phillips: no mention. Fail.
 * Rutherford: claim made at least six times in article, with no support offered. Success, barely.
 * Banks: mentioned only in passing, without support. Fail.
 * Hackett: no mention. Fail.
 * Gilmour: citation verifies he owns one, no mention of play. Success, barely.
 * Harrison: one poorly-written mention, but properly sourced. Success.
 * Hayward: no explicit, but refers to a supportive interview. Not pretty, but success.
 * Hussey: explicitly claimed, but cannot verify. Had an electric 12 custom built. Really cutting it close, but success.
 * Lake: no mention. Fail.
 * Mackenzie: no personal article, no mention in band article. Fail.
 * McGuinn: support, quote, photo. Success.
 * Nesmith: success.
 * Sambora: passing mention, no support. Fail.
 * Valentine: mention of ownership, verified. Success, barely.
 * Strange: no mention whatever, but recorded 12 String Guitar. Success, barely.
 * Mendoza: claimed in infobox, no support. Fail.
 * Swift: no mention. Fail.
 * Thomas: no article. Fail.
 * McCabe: no article; no mention in band article. Fail.
 * Bell: no mention. Fail.
 * Gardener: claimed, no support. Success, barely.
 * Berenyi: no mention. Fail.
 * Halstead: nomention. Fail.
 * Patman: no article; no mention in band article. Fail.
 * Sherriff: no article. Fail.

So, onward to the Ric users, who must at least be tied to "12-string" AND "Rickenbacker." (I'm uncomfortable, as this seems to be WP plugging a particular brand.) Entries redundant with previous block ought to be cut. Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:04, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Buck: no mention. Fail.
 * Marr: half-decent fanboyish support. Success.
 * Harrison: more fanboyism, but supported. Success.
 * Lennon: Ric, no 12. Fail.
 * McGuinn: verified by cited interview. Success.
 * Valentine: received unspecified Ric 12 (electric?). Success, barely.
 * Petty: ownership, but specific play vague. Success, barely.
 * McNally: photo, but no mention or citation. Fail.
 * Wilson: claimed, poorly supported. Success, barely.
 * Fradkin: claimed, unsupported. Fail.
 * Connell and Huntley: no mention. Fail.
 * Howes: no mention. Fail.
 * Wilson-Piper: mention, poorly supported. Success, barely.
 * Second wave of removals. Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Self promotion and vandalism.
Two recent additions were made to the electric 12 string section, which I feel rather protective of as I wrote the majority of it, which look like self promotion.

Someone inserted the information that "Musicvox began producing the Space Cadet 12 string guitar 1999 and MI-5 12 string guitar in 2011". I deleted this as producing a new model of guitar in the 90s or 2000s hardly seems notable, no one particularly famous seems to be using this model guitar, nor has it introduced anything new to the instrument in terms of innovations or design. The editor has inserted the same information into a couple of other pages about this companies instruments and this amounts to their whole contribution to WP.

Someone inserted the name of a guitarist called "Cory Stuteville, of the band Perception". I cannot find any information on this person or his band online (there's a metal band of this name on Youtube, they do not match the description given so I assume they're not the same.) Verlaine76 (talk) 13:32, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Twelve-string guitar


text:
Miriam

Miriam (מִרְיָם Mīryām, lit. 'Rebellion') is described in the Hebrew Bible as the daughter of Amram and Jochebed, and the older sister of Moses and Aaron. She was a prophetess and first appears in the Book of Exodus.

The Torah refers to her as "Miriam the Prophetess" and the Talmud names her as one of the seven major female prophets of Israel. Scripture describes her alongside of Moses and Aaron as delivering the Jews from exile in Egypt: "For I brought you up out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, and I sent before you Moses, Aaron, and Miriam". According to the Midrash, just as Moses led the men out of Egypt and taught them Torah, so too Miriam led the women and taught them Torah.

Biblical narrative
Miriam was the daughter of Amram and Jochebed and the sister of Aaron and Moses, the leader of the Israelites in ancient Egypt. The narrative of Moses's infancy in the Torah describes an unnamed sister of Moses observing him being placed in the Nile ; she is traditionally identified as Miriam.

In the biblical narrative of The Exodus, Miriam is described as a "prophetess" when she leads the Israelites in the Song of the Sea after the Pharaoh's army is destroyed at the Yam Suph.

When the Israelites are camped at Hazeroth after leaving Mount Sinai, Miriam and Aaron speak against Moses because he had married an unnamed "Ethiopian" or "Cushite" woman (translations differ). God comes down in a pillar of cloud and rebukes them, emphasizing the supreme prophetic authority of Moses. After God departs, Miriam appears white with a skin disease (tzaraath, traditionally translated as "leprosy"). Aaron asks for forgiveness and for Miriam to be cured, and Moses relays the prayer to God, who says that Miriam should be excluded from the Israelite camp for seven days, which is done.

Regarding the death of Miriam, the Torah states, "The entire congregation of the children of Israel arrived at the desert of Tzin in the first month, and the people settled in Kadesh. Miriam died and was buried there."

Cushite wife
The Midrash explains the entire story as follows: It became known to Miriam and Aaron that Moses had separated from intimacy with his wife Tzipora. They disapproved of this separation because they considered her to be outstandingly righteous, much as a dark-skinned person stands out among light-skinned people—hence the reference to Tzipora as a "Cushite". This usage of the word Cushite is non-pejorative and is often used in Jewish sources as a term for someone unique and outstanding. In fact, King Saul and even the Jewish people are referred to by the term "Cushite". Their complaint, therefore, was not about the union between Moses and Tzipora, but about their separation. The only justification they could find for Moses's celibacy was in order to maintain his prophetic state. This explains their claim that God spoke not only to Moses but also to them, yet they had not separated from their spouses.

But God rebuked them by calling them all out "suddenly", causing Miriam and Aaron a great burning sensation since they lacked immersion in a mikva after marital relations. God thus demonstrated to them Moses's unique level of prophecy for which he had to be prepared at all times, thereby justifying his separation from Tzipora. Afterwards, "God's wrath flared against them." Rabbi Louis Ginzberg wrote the anger of God to them.

"... I Myself ordered him to abstain from conjugal life, and the word he received was revealed to him clearly and not in dark speeches, he saw the Divine presence from behind when It passed by him. Wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against a man like Moses, who is, moreover, My servant? Your censure is directed to Me, rather than to him, for "the receiver is no better than the thief," and if Moses is not worthy of his calling, I, his Master, deserve censure."

- ''Legends of the Jews vol. III

Afterward, Miriam is left with bodily tzara'at, which according to Jewish sources is a divine punishment for slander. This was because she, not Aaron, was the one who initiated the complaint against Moses. Despite Miriam's intent to help Tzipora, she should have judged Moses favorably and approached Moses on Tzipora's behalf privately. Aaron asks Moses to intercede for Miriam, Moses prays to God to heal her, and God concedes after requiring a quarantine of seven days.

Both Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses, but only Miriam contracted tzara'at. It has been suggested that since according to the Hebrew Bible anyone with tzara'at was tamei, Aaron was spared this punishment in order not to interrupt his duties as High Priest. However, noting the wording of the verse, "God's wrath flared against them [i.e., both Aaron and Miriam]", the Talmud appears to conclude that Aaron was also smitten with tzara'at initially, but was then immediately cured.

Alternative explanations
It has been suggested that Josephus and Irenaeus (who merely cites Josephus) identify the Cushite woman as Tharbis, "the daughter of the king of the Ethiopians". However, while Josephus does describe a legend (which is not written in the Torah) wherein Moses marries this princess during a military campaign he leads in Ethiopia, according to Josephus this marriage occurs while Moses is still a royal prince of Egypt long before he re-discovers his oppressed Jewish brethren. After which time, upon fleeing as a solitary fugitive from Egypt, Moses marries Tzipora the daughter of Yitro the Midianite, as recorded in the Torah. Thus Josephus himself records Moses's marriage to Tzipora as separate and subsequent to his earlier marriage to Tharbis. Furthermore, according to the conclusion of the Tharbis legend, Moses fashioned a miraculous ring which caused her to forget her love for him, and he then returned to Egypt alone. Therefore, even according to Josephus, Moses's first marriage to Tharbis as military leader of Egypt terminated long before his later marriage to Tzipora as fugitive from Egypt, such that the Cushite wife of Moses mentioned in the Torah after the Exodus appears to be Tzipora, as explained above.

Richard E. Friedman writes that since Cush is generally understood to mean "Ethiopia", it is possible that the "Cushite woman" is not Tzipora. But he adds that since there is a place called Cushan which is a region of Midian, and Moses's wife Tzipora has already been identified as a Midianite, it is possible that the term "Cushite" relates to Tzipora's being from Cushan. However, Friedman's primary interest is not in the identity of the Cushite woman, but rather in the outcome of this story which establishes Moses's superiority over Aaron as an example of his claim that rival priesthoods created or publicized tales in order to legitimize their respective claims to privilege and power. He describes the Aaronid priesthood in the Kingdom of Judah, which claimed descent from Aaron and which controlled the Temple in Jerusalem, as opposed to a priesthood which claimed allegiance to Moses and was based at Shiloh in the Kingdom of Israel. Using interpretations from the documentary hypothesis, he notes that this story, which he calls "Snow-White Miriam", was authored by the Elohist who he claims was from, or supported, the Shiloh priesthood, and thus promoted this tale to assert Moses's superiority over Aaron and thereby belittle the Aaronid priesthood in Judah. However, the identity of the Cushite woman referred to in this story is tangential to Friedman and his opinion remains inconclusive.

The Well of Miriam
Miriam's death is described in Numbers 20:1, and in the next verse the Israelites are described as complaining of the lack of water at Kadesh. The text reads, "Miriam died there, and was buried there. And there was no water for the congregation."

In Jewish folk-religious tradition this abrupt transition between her death and the lack of water was explained by postulating a "well of Miriam" that dried up when she died. Further elaboration identified the rock that Moses struck to bring forth water in Exodus 17:5–6 with this well, and it was said that the rock travelled with the people until Miriam's death.

The Talmud says, "Three great leaders led Israel: Moses, Aaron and Miriam. In their merit they received three great gifts: the Well [Miriam], the Clouds of Glory [Aaron] and the Manna [Moses]." When Miriam died, the well was removed as is evidenced by the fact that immediately after the verse "And Miriam died", there was no water for the community.

Rashi says that this well was the same rock from which Moses brought forth water after Miriam's death. The Midrash states that when they encamped, the leader of each Tribe took his staff to the well and drew a line in the sand toward his Tribe's encampment. The waters of the well were drawn after the mark and thus supplied water for each of the Tribes.

Symbolism in modern practice
Miriam is a popular figure among some Jewish feminists. Thus, in addition to the traditional cup of wine that is set for the Prophet Elijah, some feminist-inspired Seders set a cup of water for Miriam which is sometimes also accompanied by a ritual in her honor. Miriam's Cup originated in the 1980s in a Boston Rosh Chodesh group; it was invented by Stephanie Loo, who filled it with what she referred to as mayim chayim (living waters) and used it in a feminist ceremony of guided meditation. Miriam's cup is linked to the midrash of Miriam's Well, described as "a rabbinic legend that tells of a miraculous well that accompanied the Israelites during their forty years in the desert at the Exodus from Egypt".

Some Modern Orthodox Jews have revived an ancient custom of adding a piece of fish to the Seder plate in honor of Miriam who is associated with water, based on the teaching in the Talmud that God gave manna (on the ground) in the merit of Moses, clouds of glory (in the sky) in the merit of Aaron and a well (of water) in the merit of Miriam. Accordingly, the lamb (earth), egg (air) and fish (water) in the Seder symbolize the three prophets Moses, Aaron and Miriam, respectively, whom God chose to redeem the Jews from Egypt. Similarly, the lamb, egg and fish also allude to the three mythical creatures in Jewish tradition—the land beast Behemoth, the bird Ziz, and the sea-creature Leviathan, respectively. According to the Midrash, the Leviathan and Behemoth, as well as the Ziz, are to be served at the Seudat Techiyat HaMetim (the feast for the righteous following the Resurrection of the Dead), to which the Passover Seder alludes, insofar as it commemorates the past Redemption together with the Cup of Elijah's heralding the future, Final Redemption.

Quranic account
There is no mention of Moses's sister's name specifically. She is just referred to as "his sister" or "Moses's sister".

In the Quran, as in the Hebrew Bible, Miriam obeys her mother's request to follow the baby Moses as he floats down the river in a basket, their mother having set him afloat so he would not be killed by Pharaoh's servants and soldiers. Later on, Asiya, wife of Pharaoh, finds Moses at the river and adopts him as her own, but Moses refuses to be suckled by her. Miriam asks Pharaoh's wife and her handmaidens to have his own mother act as nursemaid to Moses, the mother's identity not being known to Pharaoh's wife.

Veneration
In the Eastern Orthodox Church, Miriam is commemorated twice in the period before Christmas, on the Sunday of the Forefathers and the Sunday of the Fathers, and on the Wednesday after Easter along with all of the other saints who labored on Mt. Sinai.

title: Miriam