text:
Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion/undeleted

 * These are articles listed on Votes for undeletion that were undeleted.
 * See the history of Votes for undeletion for attribution of these discussions.
 * This page is preserved as an artifact of an optimistic time, and is not being updated. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  05:26, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Remorse, Transformative justice, Psychiatric imprisonment, Carceral state". Pages created by banned user 142.177)
 * This content was already restored and subsequently reworked by others. I therefore restored them all as history.Martin 13:35 24 May 2003 (UTC)

 * 05:48 May 14, 2003 User:Kingturtle deleted Canada-US politics compared (anthere)

 * I restored it and made it into a redirect to Canada US politics compared. Martin 11:56 May 15, 2003 (UTC)

 * 07:15 May 11, 2003 Zoe deleted "User talk:Zxcvb" (banned user) (Martin undeleted, because the reasons for a ban should be kept)
 * 07:15 May 11, 2003 Zoe deleted "User:Zxcvb" (banned user) (Martin undeleted)
 * 19:28 May 2, 2003 Zoe deleted "User talk:Zog/ban" (banned user) (Martin undeleted for acountability)
 * 21:17 May 1, 2003 JohnOwens deleted "Aymara" (banned user trying to sneak back in) (Martin restored it as history only. full text: "A common language amongst highland Bolivians and Peruvians. Considered an official language by both nations.")

 * Upper Peru -- full text: "The name of Bolivia during Spanish colonial times."
 * deleted by JohnOwens for being written by a banned user, not listed on votes for deletion. I undeleted this and turned it into a redirect. Martin 09:18 May 15, 2003 (UTC)

 * 22:42 May 13, 2003 172 deleted "Thats how a nigger goes" (a racist copyright violation by banned user Zog, much of whose work has already been deleted, added to the votes for deletion) (I undeleted this - it was a valid redirect)

 * 10:00 Apr 27, 2003 Maveric149 deleted "Open Campaign" (Article by banned user 142.177 (content and links to disinfopedia prove this)
 * Open Campaign, however, talks about a Greenpeace definition, and fails the google test, so I think it can stay deleted. Martin 16:56 24 May 2003 (UTC)
 * I listed it on VfD Martin 18:02 26 May 2003 (UTC)
 * VfD folks decided not to delete it, after Anthere worked on it a bit.

 * Conflict (band) - page by Michael, subsequently rewritten by quercus robur. See talk:Conflict (band) for the discussion.

 * 17:42 31 May 2003 Kils deleted "User:Viking" (project of my children - deleted after threats)
 * This was a history only restore, so I did so. I'll mention it to user:Vikings and ask them if they want to list the page on VfD... Martin 00:25 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * listed on VfD and deleted by consensus, following Vikings request. Martin 19:45 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * 17:41 31 May 2003 Kils deleted "User talk:Viking/ban" (project of my children - deleted after threats)
 * This was already undeleted by Brion.
 * listed on VfD and deleted by consensus, following Vikings request. Martin 19:45 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * New River Gorge Bridge
 * undeleted by Hephaestos - arguably prematurely deleted for being a copyvio.

 * Praseodymium
 * Reason: Page was deleted due to what looks like a misunderstanding; Praseodymium/Temp was supposed to be deleted, not Praseodymium (please refer to my deletion request on Votes for deletion for details). -- Schnee 17:11 23 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * done. user:Anthere

 * User_talk:Dewlaylomo
 * User:Dewlaylomo
 * User_talk:Dewlaylomo/ban
 * undeleted, listed on VfD. Martin 18:32 25 May 2003 (UTC)

 * 08:10 17 Jun 2003 Kingturtle deleted Gaia theory (biology) (unnecessary redirect to Gaia theory (biology))
 * Right. That is a whole article that Kingturtle deleted. I hope it was a mistake from him, and that he will make the effort of undeleting it himself. Thanks. User:anthere
 * I meant to delete Gaia Theory (homeorhic) and Gaia Theory (Lynn Margulis) because they were redirects. Through human error, I somehow deleted Gaia theory (biology) when I meant to delete Gaia Theory (Lynn Margulis). I apologize greatly for this mistake. Can we please UNDELETE Gaia theory (biology) Kingturtle 19:47 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * I undeleted Gaia theory (biology). -- Notheruser 20:03 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks KingTurtle and Notheruser. Ant

 * 21:17 May 1, 2003 JohnOwens deleted "War of the Pacific" (banned user trying to sneak back in) full text: "The War of the Pacific was fought between Chile, Bolivia, and Peru. Chile gained substantial land, with rich nitrate fields from both of the other two countries."
 * This is a one-two sentence stub that I think could probably be restored. Martin 19:18 May 15, 2003 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I just re-created it by making it as a new page rather than an undeletion, just so we don't have "its" name attached to it. Just feels cleaner that way. If you really want the old history, I think it can still be undeleted and the histories will be merged, if I understand correctly? -- John Owens 09:03 26 May 2003 (UTC)
 * indeed so. Martin
 * listed on VfD Anthere

 * 15:40 3 Jul 2003 The Anome deleted Anticipatory democracy, Participatory democracy (Deleting page created by banned user "24")
 * not by 24.

 * Right Back, Long Beach Dub Allstars
 * Undeleted, listed on VfD, now redeleted. Anyone for another round? -- Tim Starling 03:31 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * There was no consensus to delete these, and I put some work into verifying these entries that is now lost. Please restore them. Martin 09:09 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * I'll take that as a yes. (Note that Martin didn't see my comment above until after he wrote his). -- Tim Starling 13:37 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * Yes on both counts :) Martin 08:55 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * JT has deleted 2003 in sports and replaced it with the same content, apparently to remove DW/etc from the history. Is this strictly legal? Isn't there a requirement for authorship to be acknowledged? Evercat 12:16 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * I've undeleted it so that a discussion can take place. Martin 15:45 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm afraid that the GFDL won't let us violate even DW's copyright. -- Toby Bartels 16:04 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Subsequent discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:Bans and blocks after suggestion by Martin. -- Oliver P. 13:24 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * 22:28 6 Jul 2003 Cimon avaro deleted "100 Worst Britons"
 * did not give any reason for the deletion. page was never listed on Votes for deletion

 * Patera
 * Deleted with the comment "Dictionary definition, no indication of context: content was: 'A patera was a broad, shallow was a broad, shallow dish used for drinking, primarily in a ritual context such as a libation.'" This hardly counts as "no useful content" in my book. -- Oliver P. 01:15 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * I agree. Undeleted. -- Tim Starling 01:31 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * theories of imperialism (see Talk:New Imperialism). Undelete entry reads:

 * 19:59 22 Jul 2003 172 deleted "Theories of imperialism" (Created by banned user, not linked to a single page, consisting of duplicate text borrowed from another article. )
 * 08:13 16 Jan 2003 . . Hotlorp (wikify curzon)
 * 10:27 4 Jan 2003 . . Vera Cruz

 * Created by banned user? Vera wasn't banned on January 4, and bans are not retroactive last time I checked. The other reasons are a pretty poor excuse for skipping VFD. This is really unacceptable. I've restored the history. -- Tim Starling 06:26 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Subsequently redeleted about a month later - replacement article at theories of the New Imperialism. Martin

 * Adolf Hitlier
 * history-only undeletion, please. I've not looked at the history, because of my limits. Martin 22:42, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Undeleted by Angela. To be kept as a redirect?
 * It is clogging up the orphan page. Do we really need spelling mistakes? - user:Zanimum
 * ? - It's not listed on Special:Lonelypages, if that's what you mean - redirects aren't listed on that page. Martin 19:31, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia Case User:RK - history of user talk:RK/ban, which still exists. Should be undeleted, and the history merged in the usual way. Wasn't listed on VfD, as far as I can tell. Martin 15:58, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Stevertigo, Anthere. Another serious of weird moves followed, inevitably, but at least EofT can't accuse anyone of a coverup. Martin 19:31, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * AIDS Kills Fags Dead slogan, AIDS Kills Fags Dead, AIDS kills fags dead
 * discussion (and vote) at Talk:AKFD/redirect

 * user:172, user talk:172
 * Could these be undeleted and blanked? I'd like to be sure I didn't say anything I would regret. Martin 15:39, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Ahh, 172's come back and done this himself. Good. Martin 12:41, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * User talk:172/ban - Could the content please be restored to User:Nostrum/White board were it was originally posted. I moved it to the ban page. I'm sorry, that was inapproprate. However users are allowed to have what they want in their personnal subpages. - Efghij 02:53, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I already moved it, thanks. He doesn't seem to be giving up, however. He's very persistent in his vandalism and trolling, which is evident on the Catholicism page history. 172 02:57, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Let It Be . . . Naked
Real album - needs POV fixing (IE, delete last sentence). Martin 19:38, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Why not just start writing a new one? The deleted one was barely a stub. Kingturtle 19:40, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * It was a sub stub. I didn't think it would be useful to anyone wishing to write the article. If they were going to write it they would presumably already be aware that it "is the new album by the Beatles. It's a stripped down version of the classic Let It Be album" which was the page's only content. Having said that, I don't oppose Martin's undeletion. Angela 20:13, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

IPCC TAR summary conflict
IPCC TAR summary conflict. Undelete and redirect, please - no need to break this link. Martin 09:14, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * What's the use of a redirect to the user talk space? This causes problems for those who reuse our data but only download the article pages, not the user pages. Angela 07:11, 6 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Sorry, should have specified - I intended to redirect it to IPCC, since the material that was there (and is now in user space) should eventually end up at that article. Martin 22:22, 7 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Ok, that makes more sense. Undeleted. Angela 22:27, 7 Sep 2003 (UTC)

King & Spalding

 * King & Spalding - a fairly large and important American law firm - had its article deleted by 172 on 25 Jul 2003 after only three days on vfD. Obviously it needs to be undeleted, but I'm getting a database error when I try to undelete it. -- Oliver P. 18:11 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * done. Ready for your appreciation. I trust your comment. I didnot look at it :-) I think the undeletion pb is due to the & in the title. User:anthere
 * Oh, thanks for that, Anthere. :) Well, this chart shows the company as the 40th largest law firm in the US, so I think it's important enough. 172 might disagree, though... And oh yes, I should have known to replace the ampersand with its hexadecimal equivalent, which of course I know is %26. Oh, all right, I didn't know what it was - Evercat told me afterwards... :) -- Oliver P. 20:06 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * well, I don't know the hexadecimal equivalent either, but the browser does the replacement itself. Cool he ? (well, if I could ever say my browser is neat...) Perhaps we could add a list of comment hexa necessary in this page ?Anthere
 * There should be a list somewhere. - Arthur George Carrick
 * P.S. '=%27

Undeleted by Angela on 6 September.
 * The Chronicles of George - Was listed on VfD and thereafter deleted without a consensus. I liked the page. BL 12:57, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * I liked it too. But it isn't a big enough phenomenon to warrant its own article here. -- Cyan 19:21, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * I want it to be deleted, but if BL is objecting, then there's no consensus, so it should be undeleted. Martin 09:07, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * Disagree. Consensus does not equal unanimous.  RickK 04:04, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * This is now just a redirect. Angela 14:06, Oct 3, 2003 (UTC)

Finding child pornography on the Internet
The article was posted on October 9 and deleted on the same day. In the deletion log it's said that "Evercat deleted "Finding child pornography on the Internet" (content was: 'Listed on Wikipedia:Votes for Deletion')", but it definitely is not there now and in any case it wasn't listed there for 7 days. The article does not fit any of the 9 criteria for speedy deletion, so it should be undeleted.

While the article is definitely controversial in topic, this is not a sufficient reason for deletion. The article also contains some useful and rare factual information. The article itself is also completely legal is most countries (confirmed by a brief comment from a professional lawyer) and activities described there are legal in at least some. Deleting an article in violation of Wikipedia procedures only because some people are not comfortable with the topic is not good. This article should be undeleted. Paranoid 22:20, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * I have undeleted this in order that people can see the content and discuss it. But I'm uncomfortable with leaving this in the article mainspace, so I have moved it to User:Cyan/Internet child pornography. -- Cyan 22:54, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * The article has been moved to User:Paranoid/Internet child pornography. -- Cyan 22:45, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Seems like in started as, and continues to be, an advocacy piece. Delete. orthogonal 19:16, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Delete. It links to pages with nude children. I won't argue that for those pages to have those non-sexual images is wrong, but we shouldn't link to them, only mention them. - Arthur George Carrick

 * Probably illegal. Stay deleted. (Illegality should also be reason enough for speedy deletion) DJ Clayworth 17:48, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I have put the article back into the article space, at Internet child pornography. This was extensively discussed at the time, and there was not only no consensus to delete the article, but in fact majority support (in the opinion poll on the talk page) for keeping it. -- Oliver P. 01:24, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I think this is the best solution. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:32, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Canadian year pages
The hundred or so articles that used to be listed at Timeline of Canadian history. They were listed on VfD for only a few hours before being deleted. The new articles are already too long, and they contain at most 10% of the content that I am preparing to add. The articles are also much less useful in this new form. - SimonP 05:36, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)
 * Done. Good luck with working on them. :) -- Oliver P. 07:01, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Lake Clifton Eastern High School
Perfectly valid-looking article deleted by User:RickK without listing on Vfd. Such blatant abuses of sysop powers are really starting to annoy me now. I might start making formal complaints. -- Oliver P. 01:24, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Oh, please do complain. You'll notice that the article even mentions that the school will no longer exist soon. Let's please not keep creating these bogus articles. RickK 01:28, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I've undeleted it. If the reason for deleting it was that it soon won't exist, that's not a good reason (other things that no longer exist include Beethoven, Atlantis, and the Roman Empire). It needs work, and it needs to be deorphaned, but it's fine to keep. --Camembert

 * That's your opinion. There are a number of users who feel that high schools don't need their own articles.  I've listed it on VfD.  RickK 01:34, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Whether or not we should keep the article is a matter of opinion, and seeking those opinions is precisely what Votes for deletion is for. Whether or not sysops are allowed to delete articles without following the deletion policy is a separate question entirely, and as far as I am aware there is still a consensus that they are not. -- Oliver P. 02:09, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * nod. Martin 03:09, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sunset High School
Also deleted without listing on Vfd. -- Oliver P. 02:16, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * The policy states that if something is deleted out-of-process it may be instantly undeleted, which imo is what you should have done. This page is not the place to air your differences of opinion with RickK. Angela

 * Does it? Oh... I thought we were meant to list here, even if we felt they were out of process. Maybe the intro to this page needs fixing? Martin 02:25, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Well I thought it did but I can't find it now. Should it? Angela

 * No idea. I love conversations like this for highlighting how much we're making it up as we go along. People must come to us, now with more market share than slashdot, expecting big things and incisive comment and decisive action and organisation - but we really are just a bunch of amateurs... it's funny.

 * What if I think a deletion was in-process and you think it was out-of-process? That's the worst case, imo. Martin 02:40, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Well there's no such thing as a professional deletion policy writer is there? Anyway, I rewrote the policy to make it look like I was right all along. Comments, reverts etc welcome there. :) Angela 02:53, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Santorum
See Talk:Santorum.

Brianism
Brianism - This article was prematurely deleted. VfD (by my count, I could be wrong) was split 5 for and 5 against. Vote was only 5 days. Discussion was ongoing and productive. - UtherSRG 20:29, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

KPPP
No consensus. Anthony DiPierro 13:18, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yellow Pig Day
See also Votes for undeletion/deleted for the first time it was deleted and placed on VfU

Consensus on vfd was to keep. Anthony DiPierro 01:57, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete! Thanks for catching this, Anthony.  Not a reposting of earlier content; I had no idea the page had existed before.  Certainly a real day; new information (that many people knew of/celebrated this day) changed opinions about keeping/deleting.  +sj+ 19:47, 2004 Feb 20 (UTC)
 * Also -- just saw this note on the [former deletion] of the page... sorry that some YP fan was being a punk. It's ok by me if ppl decide again to delete this, but I promise I'm not related to any of those sock puppets.  Could we at least put this back on VfD?  [Some people] take the celebration [very seriously].

 * Keep deleted. Was recreation of previously deleted page. --Wik 02:03, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Everyking 01:26, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Given the VfD result, this should not have been deleted. Jamesday 22:15, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep deleted - Texture 05:52, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Yes, a recreation of a previously deleted page, but this time we got some verification that this was real and promises to make it a better page. Let's give it a run and see if it turns out worthwhile. —Morven 04:32, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. YP Day may be a math geek in-joke, but it's nonetheless something with a real following (among math geeks). Robert Southworth 17:54, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * The lack of consensus on the second deletion has not been contested, so I've undeleted this. Angela. 18:59, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)

W. Thomas Smith, Jr.
W. Thomas Smith, Jr. was a controversial delete at the time, w/ much discussion on VfD. I believe that he passes the 5000-readers test, which did not exist at the time of deletion. Meelar 22:22, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Can't be sure without seeing the page, so undelete. Anthony DiPierro 01:30, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Since I think Anthony's above decision to undelete anything he can't see is inappropriate, I will balance it. Keep deleted - Texture 05:51, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Let me clarify. Meelar has stated that he believes that this person passes the 5000-readers test.  Since I can't verify that claim without seeing the page, I have voted to undelete.  I don't want to undelete anything I can't see. Anthony DiPierro 15:54, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. He is a prominent journalist - and still alive. Not a 9/11 victim - but wrote a book about it... and others that are available on amazon.com. Work has appeared in National Review, USA Today, New York Post, U.S. News & World Report. Davodd 08:21, Feb 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete, in light of the above info. Everyking 19:31, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete, please, at least to put it thru VfD again. +sj+ 13:45, 2004 Mar 7 (UTC)
 * Undeleted, listed on VfD. Angela. 19:42, Mar 8, 2004 (UTC)

MUD trees
Undeleted. See Talk:MUD trees.

Richard Genovese
-> Talk:Richard Genovese

noxious trade

 * this was deleted and I was never informed or given a chance to defend it.
 * Lirath Q. Pynnor
 * The page has the VfD message added on the 17th January. I can't see when it was actually deleted though, or who deleted it. I don't know why this is. theresa knott 17:24, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Ok I found it in the deletions log. "20:34, Jan 22, 2004 Angela deleted "Noxious trade" (listed on VfD and moved to Wiktionary) So it looks in order to me.theresa knott 17:31, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * It's here theresa knott 20:13, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * It should be undeleted. The wikipedia should have a list of occupations which are considered to be part of the "noxious trades" Lirath Q. Pynnor

 * Keep deleted - Tεx τ urε 02:47, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Question. I wonder if there is an established policy concerning articles that someone wants to write, after a different article of the same title has been deleted. Reposting a previously-deleted article makes for speedy deletion, that much is settled. But what if someone writes a meaningful article on the same topic? In this case it's not clear to me that a meaningful article can't be written about "noxious trade". Not a vote. Wile E. Heresiarch 18:28, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Candidates for speedy deletion says that "Reposted content that was deleted according to Wikipedia deletion policy" is a candidate. I don't think the title matters.  That's why I've not voted to undelete.  If someone wants to make a meaningful replacement for this article, they can go right ahead. anthony (see warning) 18:45, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

As Lir had recreated this anyway, I restored the history to preserve earlier author attribution. Angela. 08:00, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)

Kewpie doll
Legitimate stub deleted by Olivier. - Woodrow XXIIIII, Emperor of the United States, Minister of Ministry 03:05, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Temasek Secondary School
Deleted after going through VfD with the summary "listed on vfd for six days, consensus to delete", but on the (also deleted) Template:VfD-Temasek Secondary School I see ten votes to delete versus six to keep, which I wouldn't call consensus (if I'd seen the vote in time, it would've been 7-10). Also, all of those votes were made before the article was expanded a bit by Tim Starling, and I see no reason in policy for the page as it was in its final state to have been deleted. --Camembert 15:37, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * After deleting the article I discovered that some of the discussion had been added to the main vfd page and not to Template:VfD-Temasek Secondary School. I would suggest looking at the history of Votes for deletion to get the full tally which was, if I remember correctly, 12 votes to delete v. 6 to keep. -- Graham  :) | Talk 15:40, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for pointing that out (though I make it 11-6). I'd still like it to be undeleted, since, as I say, all the votes were made before Tim expanded the article (it wasn't by much, I admit, but it turned it from an uber-stub to just a regular one-paragraph stub). --Camembert

 * Well I don't have a problem with that myself. -- Graham :) | Talk 16:59, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Even if it were 12-6, you're pushing it to say that is a consensus. Taking into account other factors, such as the article having additions made after some of these votes, I'd say there isn't a case for deleting this. I've undeleted. Angela. 19:40, Apr 24, 2004 (UTC)

Donald Adams
Needs to be undeleted so that it can be properly transwikied to sep11 wiki. The page history is missing from that site. anthony (see warning) 23:54, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Done. See Sep11:Talk:Donald_Adams. Angela. 01:18, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

All MediaWiki:Vfd- pages deleted by DJ Clayworth
DJ Clayworth keeps pages that had consensus to delete (e.g. Alex Hirka) and then deletes those MediaWiki:VfD pages so that the votes are no longer verifiable. --Wik 19:17, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Alex Hirka deleted per unanimous vote - Template:VfD-Alex_Hirka restored and linked to Archived delete debates to retain vote. - Tεx τ urε 19:29, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * The content should be moved to the talk page really if the article is being kept. Perhaps the policy needs to be clarified if people agree that is what should be done. Angela. 19:40, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Alex (TorridZone Igloo) Hirka deleted per consensus - Template:VfD-AlexTorridZoneIglooHirka restored and linked to Archived delete debates to retain vote. - Tεx τ urε 19:42, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Apologies for not moving the contents to talk. My mistake. With Alex Hirka there were two very similar pages. Alex Hirka was unanimous to delete, and I deleted it. Alex (TorridZone Igloo) Hirka was consensus to keep (or at least no consensus to delete), so I kept it. Then, since the title for Alex (TorridZone Igloo) Hirka looked like it wasn't going to be useful, I moved it to Alex Hirka. Either way you now have one copy of text that was voted to be kept, and in a sensible place. (as for why one copy was voted to keep and one to delete, you'll have to ask those that voted). (I also NPOV's the Alex (TorridZone Igloo) Hirka article a little). DJ Clayworth 19:49, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Wasn't aware of the existence of Archived delete debates either. I'll move things there next time. Why is it required to have copies both there and on talk page? DJ Clayworth 19:55, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, it isn't. If the article is kept, the mediawiki link goes on the talk page. If the article is deleted it goes in the archive. theresa knott 20:02, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * It is optional to keep the MediaWiki link for the talk page or to delete the MediaWiki link and add the votes to the talk page. I prefer to move the votes and delete the MediaWiki link since people see it on their watchlist and don't necessarily realize the vote is over.  Deleting it and moving the contents to talk makes it clear to voters. - Tεx τ urε 21:32, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Will do. DJ Clayworth 20:51, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Meg White
It was ugly, but I think Fuzheado deleted it without cause. It could have been wikified into an article. RickK 04:48, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep deleted. anthony (see warning)
 * Why? Angela. 03:41, May 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree with RickK - it look like it's been undeleted now, anyway. Martin 11:07, 15 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Moderately notable musician. -- Cyrius|&#9998 18:01, May 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Seems fine, though I can understand someone deleting it if they didn't do a search first to confirm that it wasn't a personal page. Jamesday 02:01, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Rallos Zek
Appears to have been deleted through speedy deletion. Did not, from summary on deletion log, fulfill qualifications for SD. Rallos Zek is in fact god of war in EverQuest, there is a PvP server named after him, etc. Maybe a case could be made for a VfD listing (Though I'd oppose deleting there too), but it was not a case for speedy deletion. Snowspinner 16:09, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Undelete and restore original before blanking. - Tεx τ urε 21:15, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree this should be undeleted. Angela. 03:41, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree, undelete. There are all kinds of gaming articles on Wikipedia.  RickK 23:46, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Undelete. Seems to have been a victim of too-speedy deletion - helps to give even short pages a week or so to develop rather than deleting them instantly. Jamesday 02:03, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Koss
It was an accurate sub-sub-stub that was deleted by someone before anyone else got a chance to expand it. --Zigger 16:12, 2004 May 17 (UTC)
 * Keep deleted. The entire content was "A company that makes sound stuff". There is no reason to undelete this. It provides no useful information whatsoever and would waste the time of anyone clicking on a link to it. Angela. 02:06, May 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep deleted. If you want to write a real article, nobody's stopping you, but what was there was nonsense.  RickK 19:29, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I accept that it was a valid candidate for speedy deletion on the basis of shortness, but not because of lack of facts or patent nonsense. That short (and short-lived) article was enough for me to want to help expand it.  We now have a Koss disambiguation page, and a Koss Corporation stub. I would have liked to provide attribution for the original contributor.  If I do get around to writing a "real article" on Koss, thanks for the permission :-). --Zigger 09:57, 2004 May 23 (UTC)
 * Since a real article exists there now, I've undeleted the original six words to keep the author attribution. Angela. 12:11, May 24, 2004 (UTC)

Trip Hawkins
I authored an article on Trip Hawkins a while back, but it's been deleted. I didn't see it listed on VfD, it's just gone! As the founder of Electronic Arts and 3DO, I think he is worthy of an article. Does anyone know what happened to it and why it was killed? —Frecklefoot 20:30, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * From the deletion log:-

 * 05:38, 13 May 2004 Dysprosia deleted "Trip Hawkins" (just an external link - content was: '==External links==* Digital Chocolate website').

 * Lee (talk)  20:36, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

It was a full article at one point. You can see the cache of it here. However, it was ofen vandalized (apparently by a digruntled former employee of 3DO). I suspect the same person trimmed it down to the link and Dysprosia deleted it. The history would have shown the correct, full article. Is there some way to restore it? —Frecklefoot 20:42, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * I expect the deletion was accidental. I've undeleted it now and reverted to an earlier version. Angela. 20:45, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Angela. Yes, I suspect the deletion was accidental too. I didn't think Dysprosia knowingly deleted a legit article. Now if we could just get the vandal to stop vandalizing it... —Frecklefoot 20:50, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

How to learn a language
Keep- The reason given was it belongs in the Wikibooks, (Categorical) if so then the whole How tos should be transferred. The article is not mature yet to be a book. It gives useful advice that people don't normally do. --Jondel 04:37, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Reinhard Hauff
Stubbish article about a German director. RickK 00:07, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
 * It's borderline. I don't think Guanaco was wrong to delete it, but I have no objection to it being undeleted. Entire content was "German Film Director Directed and wrote many movies in Germany during the late sixties to early ninties." Angela. 00:56, May 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * Please recreate. That's more than I knew about him, and this will probably expand eventually. Meelar 18:17, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. The information is not very extensive but it's enough for a stub. Worth remembering that search engine hits on stubs, even very short ones, are likely to be a significant source of editors for an article, one which isn't going to be present if the article isn't around. Jamesday 16:30, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Per the undeletion policy I've undeleted and expanded this article, seeing three undelete votes (assuming RickK to be suggesting undelete), one neutral and no opposing votes. The expansion appears likely to resolve the doubts of the neutral voter. Still rather stubby, though. Jamesday 17:05, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Keep the expanded and cleaned up version. Guanaco 17:17, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fairbairn

 * Fairbairn was deleted despite two voters on Redirects for deletion who think the title is useful for a Dab, vs. nominator favoring deletion. (This would seem to be a precedent for eliminating all Dab pages whose titles are surnames.) --Jerzy(t) 20:55, 2004 Aug 16 (UTC)

 * Undelete. - UtherSRG 21:24, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. RickK 23:35, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Arevich 02:04, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Undelete - Tεx  τ  urε  15:06, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Undeleted. Angela. 19:18, Aug 17, 2004 (UTC)

Template:BPOV and Template:BPOVbecause
'''Update 02:30, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC): These templates were created ten hours before the injunction took effect. They were improperly deleted. Please be reminded that their content is not relevant, it is their improper deletion which is the issue. - Vague | Rant 02:30, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)''' These templates were deleted because User:CheeseDreams has a temporary injunction from editing articles:. A template is not an article, and these two templates should not have been deleted. They were, at the time of deletion, on TFD:. The TFD process should be allowed to be completed, and as such these templates will need to be restored. - Vague | Rant 10:46, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * These templates were undeleted, so that the vote on WP:TFD can be completed. -- Netoholic @ 03:55, 2005 Jan 10 (UTC)

Sex Diet
I created a Sex Diet article. It was deleted for being an advert, which is ridiculous. My only guess is that the person who deleted it was not educated on the subject. I know the name is "sensational", but a Sex Diet is actually recognized by members of both the American Academy of Clinical Sexologists and the Female Sexual Medical Center at UCLA School of Medicine. If you speak to a sexologist about a Sex Diet and sexual nutrition, chances are pretty good they are familiar with it.

I'm guessing that the "advert" claim is because of the link to the book site. I only put that link up because it is the only current comprehensive book on the matter. It would be just as easy to take the link down but I think it's helpful for anyone who wants to learn about it (I'm not going to sit here and type in all 150 pages of a copywritten book). Heck, if you don't like what I wrote, research it for yourself and edit it, but don't delete it. (above from User:Lovelyrita)

 * I undeleted this; it looked like an invalid speedy to me. "Looking like an advert" is not a cause for speedy deletion. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:58, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Good call, I'll probably VfD it unless it gets serious cleanup and improvement soon, but it wasn't a CSD. --fvw *  17:03, 2005 Jan 1 (UTC)
 * Comment to User:Lovelyrita: I recommend you read wikipedia's policy on Neutral point of view, since you may be the best person to rewrite the article to conform with it. Kappa 20:34, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

André Nilsen
Please undelete any history from André Nilsen, or let me know that there isn't any deleted history. anthony 警告 14:06, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't really see any sense in that, the article is deleted, there's merely a placeholder there to prevent vandalism. --fvw *  16:01, 2004 Dec 31 (UTC)
 * It's currently listed here on VfU, and seeing the history would help people decide how to comment on that undeletion. anthony 警告 16:07, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * There isn't any deleted history. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:23, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Not any more. That's 'cause this request was fulfilled. anthony 警告 21:34, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Katie Fitzgerald
Can someone please undelete the history of Katie Fitzgerald so I can see it. anthony 警告 21:43, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * A decent article hasn't been written on Katie Fitzgerald, and won't be as she is non-notable (as determined by VfD). Theoretically, the redirect currently in place should be deleted. There's no reason to undelete the history except to prompt a revert war. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  07:57, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * No reason? I want to see the friggen information.  That's the reason. anthony 警告 12:58, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Deleted articles are non-visible on purpose. VfU is not a way of circumventing that. --fvw *  14:05, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)
 * Actually I'd say it's an accident that deleted articles are non viewable. The original programmers just couldn't come up with a better way to do things.  I've always been pointed to VfU when I wanted to see a deleted article, and the page instructions specifically say that "this page exists for [...] non-sysops who wish to see the content of a deleted article."  I'm a non-sysop, and I wish to see the content of a deleted article.  Go figure.  anthony 警告 16:06, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I've undeleted the history. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:55, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

High Tauern
There used to be this page which I created on November 5 on the basis of the one in the German Wikipedia article. The page seems to have just dissappeared, without me noticing, even though I was watching the page and still am. I couple of pages, including a redirect, are linking to it. I fail to see a reason for deletion. Martg76 23:06, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * How odd, could we have a temp undelete to see the english article? --fvw *  13:03, 2004 Dec 29 (UTC)
 * Undeleted. Looks like it was a mistake during dewillification. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:08, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Defunct Games
I created a article for Defunct Games yesterday, and it seems to be missing, there is no VfD history or anything... and i looked at the description for speedy deletion, and it doesnt seem to have violated any of those rules.

Defunct Games is a NPO, and was not put in here for advertizing... I figure if you have Burger King, Pepsi, and numurous other companies, then why not Defunct Games... if you want a better detailed description, let me know, I can supply anything that would make it a valid entry

 * This was deleted as a self-promotion. It looks to me like a grey-area speedy for that reason, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and restoring it for now. Honestly, though, unless this company is truly notable, it's liable to be deleted at some point anyway. My advice would be for you to do your best to establish notability as best you can. – ClockworkSoul 08:19, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I deleted it because in tone and presentation it really felt like a vanity page. Apparently that was not the case, and I apologize. I agree with ClockworkSoul though, if you don't establish notability it likely will end up on VfD. Mackensen (talk) 17:19, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Vanity is not a CSD, and the proposal to make it such is not even close. It'd be best to get out of this habit, because with so many people disagreeing, each one needs to be looked at over the course of a VfD. -- Netoholic @ 21:58, 2005 Jan 5 (UTC)

 * I guess I dont understand what you want that is notable, we are a gaming website that has been around for 3 years running, we regularly attend E3 and other conventions of the like, we are a registered business with the Department of Licencing, what more is needed. Please let me know, you can contact me via ICQ: 165512867 or email: sryuuza@defunctgames.com

User talk:Arminius
from delete log -- 13:48, 31 Dec 2004 Arminius deleted User talk:Arminius (time to go)

this does not fall under the criteria in CSD. it is inappropriate for an admin to delete the history of their correspondence. it is inappropriate for an admin to delete a page with no supporting policy. it is particularly inappropriate to do so given that page's role in the recent arbcom case concerning Arminius. this admin recreated page shortly after deletion, but with all history missing and has activily continued as an admin since the deletion of his talk page. Wolfman 03:23, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * You're right, it doesn't fall under CSD. I undeleted the page history and left him a note. But, since the arbcom case was closed, he can have the page deleted under option 7 of "Other pages" on CSD. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  04:25, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand. You're saying WP:CSD doesn't allow admins to delete their own user pages, but they can ask another admin to delete their user pages for them? I don't think that necessarily follows from WP:CSD, and I don't think it's common practice either (thought I may be mistaken on that last bit). --fvw *  04:37, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. It is to prevent the type of abuse that Wolfman is alleging. If something isn't specifically allowed on CSD, you aren't supposed to delete it. In the same theme, you can't block yourself from editing, but you can ask someone else to block you from editing. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  04:42, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Two heads are better than one. It's bad enough admins insist on protecting their own subpages when there is no history of vandalism. Deletion of user pages should involve two people. -- Netoholic @ 04:47, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
 * There is more info on this at User page. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  04:53, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * I undeleted his talk page history again. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  03:59, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * And he redeleted it again. I am referring it to the administrators' noticeboard. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  06:15, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Specifically, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#User talk:Arminius. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  07:15, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

Mycosis Fungoides
Content was: 'A form of lymph cancer characterized by scaly skin patches. It progresses over several years to form elevated skin lesions and then tumors.' Kappa 08:28, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * You know the entire content of the article, so you could have just re-created it. I undeleted it, because it's on the edge of "Very short article with little or no context". If it's not improved in 24 hours, it will get VfD'd. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  08:52, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow, you're quick. I was about to move the article, but you beat me to it. I listed it on cleanup. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  08:58, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd did a nice job of cleaning it up. I'll be de-listing this from VfU in the next 24 hours, since it's resolved. —Ben Brockert (42)  UE News  04:00, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes thank you Starblind, good job. I didn't want to recreate it myself because I wouldn't feel comfortable taking credit for it, and also that would be a violation of the Gnu license. Kappa 05:51, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Route 128 Station
This was deleted in October 2004. The article fits perfectly into WikiProject Stations. It's not even a questionable rural station that sees one train a week - it's served by Amtrak's Acela Express high-speed service, as well as the MBTA's commuter rail, and is a major station, if a bit spartan, for people south of Boston. The vote was 4-2, not even really a consensus. --SPUI 23:03, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Undelete. There's precedent for such articles existing. In cases where an article fits into a greater framework the threshold for notability should be lower. Mackensen (talk) 23:39, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Agreed.  Postdlf 00:00, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I added a note to VfD per VfU policy. The question is: if this gets undeleted, would it survive VfD when it got re-nominated? —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  02:19, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's my understanding that 2/3 isn't consensus, or it's just barely (I think that number was being thrown around in the GNAA VFD). Anyway, anyone who votes delete should be shot. I'm going to list Greenway (Middle-earth) on VFD right now to get a feel for how inconsistent people actually are. --SPUI 04:58, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Nominating things that you don't want deleted as an experiment is not a very good idea. If it gets deleted, it's not going to ever get undeleted. From the deletion policy: some do consider a 2/3 majority a "rough consensus". —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  05:24, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Undelete agree with SPUI on reson for undelete, the station is a major commuter rail station as well as a major station surving the south suburbs of Boston on Amtraks NE corodor lines. --Boothy443 05:09, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Undelete. Notable and encyclopedic, just like all other public transport infrastructure. --Centauri 05:26, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Undelete. There's a good argument for keeping it. While 4-2 may be a 2/3 vote, with only 6 votes it's not a strong enough consensus to keep deleted against solid objections. Michael Ward 05:43, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I've undeleted. This was a feeble deletion, and there's plenty of reason for it to stay. 4-2 is not really indicative of anything. I also strongly suggest that SPUI rescind that other VfD, as it's made in bad faith. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:55, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok. I relisted on VfD, per policy; Votes for deletion/Route 128 (MBTA station). —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  03:56, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

Jam 1575
This is an article about a UK student radio station which is listed in List of UK radio stations. Please have a look at this list before commenting on this undeletion request. I would like somebody to give me a valid reason why this particular radio station should be deleted while others on this list should not. The station broadcasts on AM, like many other stations in this list, and is a community radio station, like many others in this list - it is no more 'unnotable' than them. This article was also much more detailed than the articles of many of the other stations in the list.

There is no Wikipedia policy on radio station articles, so rather than telling me whether or not the VfD was legit, I would like someone to tell me the reasoning behind why someone cherry picked this particluar station for deletion out of the many which are listed and have articles on Wikipedia. This list was becoming a comprehensive guide to UK radio stations, a small and very useful part of Wikipedia which people should be proud of. Instead, people whith little apparent knowledge of this part of Wikipedia seem intent on taking parts of it away, without respect for the comprehensiveness or usefulness of this list. Please restore this article so that it can exist alongside other articles for other stations which are just as notable as this one. PJBeef 01:59 5 January 2005 (UTC)

 * Probably notable. Best to be on the safe side. Undelete. Tim Ivorson 10:55, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * The article hasn't been deleted so this is not a matter for VfU. But if you want an explanation for the VfD: It's a small university radio station with nothing to make it special or out of the ordinary. That level of notability mandates a small mention in the university article at best. --fvw *  11:08, 2005 Jan 5 (UTC)
 * The article is now only a redirect page with the history wiped and all the information deleted. To me it is notable simply because it's a radio station. Do you really think it's right to go through List of UK radio stations and delete some articles because you think they're not as big as the others listed?
 * The history is all there now. Either it was undeleted or it was never deleted. The VfD can be seen at Talk:Jam 1575. The version nominated to VfD deserved to be deleted. I support the VfD process (it's less than 2 watts! My computer speakers are more powerful), but if I was PJBeef, I'd wait a couple weeks, then put up a better version of the page in place of the redirect and see if anyone complains. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  23:46, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * Undelete other radio stations are listed. Salazar 06:24, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * This page met the criteria for undeletion, so I reverted to a prior edit and re-listed on VfD, per policy. Votes for deletion/Jam 1575. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  08:58, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

Theater of Pain
recreated, unless someone want to delete it again :)

A Mötley Crüe album. Doesn't mention that fact but is linked from that page. Probably nothing more than a tracklist but there are many album pages with nothing more. Kappa 22:02, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I say keep deleted, let someone recreate it when they have something more than just a tracklist. It didn't even mention Mötley Crüe. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  02:58, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep deleted - starting from scratch won't be any more difficult. -- Cyrius|✎ 03:16, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * It was actually quite annoying trying to recreate it because I could only find re-releases with extra tracks. Kappa 07:16, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Here's what it had: "1.City Boy Blues 2.Smokin' In The Boys' Room 3.Louder Than Hell 4.Keep Your Eye On The Money 5.Home Sweet Home 6.Tonight (We Need A Lover) 7.Use It Or Lose It 8.Save Our Souls 9.Raise Your Hands To Rock 10.Fight For Your Rights." With the extra tracks and re-releases, you have the promise for an article better than the average album "article". —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  07:42, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK thanks I made a stub. Kappa 09:22, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Moved to Theatre of Pain. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 21:52, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

Glitching
What was in Glitching please, just to view? Kappa 04:14, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I've undeleted. Geogre said "db|word does not exist and is just an unknown invention, maybe User:Ele9699 even made it up himself". But there are 35,800 Google hits for it, so it does seem to be used. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:27, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've merged/redirected to Glitch where it should be at home. Kappa 09:29, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I should point out that the "because" was done by the person who tagged it as a CsD. I merely executed the decision.  The reason I did so was that it appeared to me to be a neologism in highly specialized usage and an action for which there are no doubt dozens of words.  The article as it was said that "glitching" was using a software glitch in an online game for profit.  Well, that might be "bugging."  It might be "gaming the game."  It might be a lot of things, and it's likely not just online games.  In short, I agreed with the tagger, but it wasn't my tag.  Geogre 22:06, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Sorry for the incorrect attribution; I'll look more carefully next time --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 20:41, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Olympia Academy
Can I view the rest of this please? (with the capital A) And BTW where am I supposed to put requests just to view content? Kappa 20:08, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Einstein was working as a Patent Clerk in Bern, but the cash was tight so he totally decided to start tutoring physics (because he's so good at it - LOL). Well, he tutored a dude who turned into his buddy, and they would totally just chit chat all night about physics and philosophy, so Einstein couldn't really charge him anymore, unless he was going to be an unfair jerk. They got some other buddies together and had regular meetings where they talked about crap. Einstein's woman apparently came to the meetings too, but she didn't talk much or something. The Olympia Academy was probably pretty important for the foundations of a lot of Einstein's personal philosophy, and physics theories. Peace.
 * -- AllyUnion (talk) 20:22, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I rewrote this on 11 ii 05; it still needs some work (a couple of polishings got lost in the Great Power Cut of '05), and any help would be appreciated. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 09:49, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Falling Up (band)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Up_%28band%29 was deleted by a VFD apparently around April 9th, unknown to me. I never knew a falling up band article had ever been created, and I wrote an entirely new one. The main reason given for the band to be deleted was that they had made only one CD independantly and were therefore non-notable, whereas in reality they were signed on to BEC recordings, a major Christian label that also produces for big Christian Contemporary names like Jeremy Camp, Kutless. (Take a look at http://www.becrecordings.com/front.php). As well, there is a precedent for single-album Christian Contemporary bands on the wikipedia--for example, Casting crowns. To summarize -My article was different from the article deleted and should, at the least, get a separate VFD. -The reason for the VFD (independant release and therefore non-notability) was untrue since they were signed on to BEC. -Please put my article back :) -Cookiemobsta

 * Agreed that a separate VFD is needed if it wasn't a re-creation of the old one. Can an admin verify this? --SPUI (talk) 23:19, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Undelete. The first version (that went through VfD) simply stated that Falling Up was a Christian rock band and then listed its members.  Comments in the VfD mentioned the lack of notability.  The latest version, while a stub, is more informative and offers at least a basis for notability.  I don't know enough about the labels to make a call on that basis, but I wouldn't consider this version a recreation of the deleted article.  SWAdair | Talk  05:47, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep deleted. VfU is not to be used to try to get VfD votes redone.  RickK 21:30, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Unless the article is a re-creation, rather than a new article that was created, deletion policy clearly states that it must be separately VFDed. This at the very least prevents me from writing a substub that says "Stephen King was a man. He was not a dragon-man." and taking it through VFD, and then using that as a rationale to delete any article on Stephen King. You've done this before and you're doing it again. Please stop trolling. That has to be what you're doing, as you've been informed before that the deletion policy clearly protects articles like this.
 * Is there some way for both the old and new revisions to be undeleted temporarily? Like a full history undeletion rather than just the most recent article? It would be nice to verify that in fact the two articles were different. --SPUI (talk) 21:40, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, by the way, this VFU is not for trying to redo the VFD. It's for trying to undo what seems to be an improper (though possibly well-intentioned) speedy. --SPUI (talk) 22:13, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak undelete. They are listed on allmusic.com but have no written entry. Gamaliel 22:18, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * For the record, this reason may be invalid, since it treats this like another VFD on the subject. The main issue here is whether the recent speedy was valid. According to the nominator, it was not the same article; good faith is the only thing to go by here, until we have some other evidence either way. --SPUI (talk) 22:31, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * By the way, making my vote clear - undelete unless we have evidence that the two articles were the same. --SPUI (talk) 22:36, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I have undeleted my original deletion. I sincerely apologize to Cookiemobsta for the confusion.    I gave improper weight to the given speedy reason of VFD recreation and did a hasty and insufficient scan of the content without properly comparing the two versions.  I will be more careful in the future.  -   BanyanTree 22:56, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Maha Jana High School
'''Solid proof that this school exists is provided at this official Indian National Information Centre site for the Erode elections, which shows that the school has been used as a polling station:. This site was inaugurated by the chief returning officer--who presides over elections in Tamil Nadu.'''

I was sifting through some of the old deletion debates and noticed that this one was red in spite of consensus to keep (or "no consensus" which is almost the same thing). The debate is at Votes for deletion/Maha Jana High School. Also when I looked at the deletion log I found these entries Strange, why would people fight so vehemently over redirects? I suspect that there is something in the page history of Maha Jana which should be undeleted per the VfD debate. Note that I am listing this merely as a policy issue, usually I avoid VfD debates about high schools. Sjakkalle 12:51, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
 * 14:39, 16 Apr 2005 Mel Etitis deleted "Maha jana high school" (content was: ' #REDIRECT Maha Jana High School')
 * 14:39, 16 Apr 2005 Mel Etitis deleted "Maha Jana High School" (content was: ' #redirect Erode')
 * Undeleted, VfD'd, kept.

Gustavus Franklin Swift
9 undeletes; 5 keep deleteds, one of which was struck; two comments. A better article on the same topic existed at Gustavus Swift and was moved over the deleted page. The old history was then undeleted under the better page. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  05:29, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Achstetten
New stub written, history undeleted.

A1 (rocket), A2 (rocket) etc
See Votes for deletion/A1 (rocket). Including A1, A2, A5, A7, A8, A9, A11, A12 as far as I can tell. These were all speedied with "merged" as the reason given. Some still have red links to them. Should be recreated and then redirected, to preserve history. Kappa 06:31, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Articles undeleted, merged properly, and redirected. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News  02:10, May 26, 2005 (UTC)


text:
Mi'ar

Mi'ar (ميعار), was a Palestinian village located 17.5 kilometers east of Acre. Its population in 1945 was 770. The Crusaders referred to it as "Myary". By the 19th century, during Ottoman rule, it was a large Muslim village. The village was a center of Palestinian Arab rebel operations during the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine against British rule and consequently the village was completely dynamited by the British. Mi'ar was later restored, but it was depopulated by Israeli forces during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The Jewish communities of Atzmon, Ya'ad and Manof are located on former village land.

Middle Ages
Mi'ar contained the archaeological remains of buildings, fragments of columns, olive presses, and cisterns. It was referred to by the Crusaders as "Myary".

Ottoman era
Incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with all of Palestine, Mi'ar appeared in the 1596 tax registers as being in the Akka Nahiya (Subdistrict of Acre), part of the Safad Sanjak (District of Safed). It had a population 10 Muslim households, an estimated 55 persons. The villagers paid fixed tax rate of 25% on wheat and barley, fruit, goats and beehives; a total of 1,235 akçe.

In the late 1700, the Italian traveler Giovanni Mariti noted that around al-Damun and Mi'ar were two "delightful valleys, ornamented with groves and wild shrubs. The peasants who live in the hamlets around, enjoy a most pleasant situation."

In 1875, French explorer Victor Guérin visited Mi'ar, and noted that it contained "several trunks of columns, three broken capitals, and a certain number old cut stones, coming from some ancient building. I observed also many blocks of ancient appearance disposed round threshing-floors. There are also cisterns, walls, and caves cut in the rock, which belong to times more or less remote." He found Mi'ar to be inhabited by 500 Muslims.

In 1881, the PEF's Survey of Western Palestine (SWP) described it as a large village situated on high ground that was rough and uncultivated. The villagers, whose number was estimated to be 1,500 (in 1859), cultivated some 30 faddans. A population list from about 1887 showed that Mi'ar had about 480 inhabitants; all Muslims. An elementary school was founded by the Ottomans in 1888, however, it closed its doors in the final years of the Empire.

British Mandate era
British forces drove out the Ottomans in 1917, during World War I, and the British Mandate of Palestine was established in 1920. In the 1922 British census, Mi'ar had a population of 429 Muslims. The population increased to 543, still all Muslim, in the 1931 census and the inhabitants lived in a total of 109 houses.

A number of Mi'ar's residents participated in 1936–1939 Arab revolt against British rule and mass Jewish immigration in Palestine, and the village became a center of rebel operations in the Galilee. The rebels often opened fired on British troops passing near Mi'ar, damaged roads in the vicinity to render them impassable by the British authorities, cut electrical cables, and planted landmines to hit British vehicles. One of the authorities' controversial methods of suppressing the revolt was the blowing up of houses in a village where there was support for rebels. On 26 October 1938, two British battalions launched a raid against Mi'ar and began dynamiting the large houses of the village. They then demanded Mi'ar's mukhtar (headman) to issue a call to the village's rebels to surrender their rifles or else the dynamiting would continue. No rifles were surrendered and the British resumed their dynamiting of the village's homes. Mi'ar was entirely destroyed for its alleged support of the rebels. A New York Times reporter present during the destruction wrote, "When the [British] troops left, there was little else remaining of this once busy village except a pile of mangled masonry."

The village was rebuilt and in the 1945 statistics, the population of Mi'ar grew to 770, all Muslims. A total of 2,878 dunams of village land was used for cereals, while 113 dunams were irrigated or used for orchards.

1948 War and aftermath
According to Ilan Pappé, on 20 June 1948 Israeli troops entered Mi'ar and shot indiscriminately against its residents while they were working in their fields, the village's houses were destroyed and forty inhabitants were killed. One witness to the Israeli attack was the Palestinian writer, Muhammad Ali Taha, then a 17-year-old boy. Mi'ar's residents later returned and continued living in the village until Israeli troops from the Sheva Brigade reoccupied it on 15 July 1948, as part of the second stage of Operation Dekel. According to Benny Morris, Mi'ar's 893 inhabitants fled during the Israeli assault, while Pappé asserts that they were expelled.

The Jewish communities of Segev (now Atzmon), Ya'ad and Manof were built on Mi'ar's lands. The village's remains in 1992 consisted of "some truncated stone walls, simple graves, and fig and olive trees". The site, which "was largely covered by cypress trees" had become a recreational area.

Many of the refugees of Mi'ar became internally displaced Palestinians resettled in nearby Kabul, Sha'ab and Arraba. Neighborhoods in each of the villages where Mi'ar refugees and their descendants reside are named Mi'ari after their village of origin.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Mi'ar


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Al-Mansura, Acre

 * See Mansura (disambiguation) for other places with similar names.

Al-Mansura (المنصورة), was a Palestinian village that was depopulated by the Israeli army during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. In 1945, it had a population of 2,300 together with the neighboring villages of Dayr al-Qassi (also depopulated) and Fassuta. The population was predominantly Christian and most its residents live in what is now the state of Israel.

It was situated on the northern end of a mountain in the Upper Galilee whose summit was behind the village to the south. It was connected to the coastal Acre-Ras al-Naqoura highway via a secondary road.

History
The village was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517; in 1596 it appeared under the name of al-Mansura in the tax registers as part of the nahiya (subdistrict) of Jira  in the Sanjak (district) of Safed. It had an all Muslim population, consisting of 17 households and 5 bachelors. They paid a fixed tax-rate of 25% on agricultural products, including wheat, barley, olive trees, goats and beehives, in addition to occasional revenues and an olive oil press; the taxes totalled 3,656 akçe. All of the taxes went to a Waqf.

In 1881, the PEF's Survey of Western Palestine (SWP) described  the place as having "A few heaps of stones and some foundations. The masonry is medium-size, and well-dressed. The door-posts are of stone; there are  cisterns on top of the hill, which is steep."

British Mandate era
Until 1923, after borders were renegotiated between the British and French governments (who controlled the northern and southern parts of the Levant, respectively, at the time), al-Mansura was a part of Lebanon. Afterward it became part of the Mandatory Palestine and was described as a hamlet by the Palestine Index Gazetteer.

In the 1931 census of Palestine, conducted by the British Mandate government, it was counted under the much larger Christian village of Fassuta. The total population of the two places were 688 inhabitants; 81 Muslims and 607 Christians, in a total of 129 houses. The houses of al-Mansura were spaciously separated from each other and the village had a church dedicated to Mari Yohanna (John the Baptist). The chief source of income was from agriculture and husbandry and the main sources of drinking water came from a well to the north and three water tanks.

In the 1945 statistics, its land was grouped with the lands  of Fassuta (existent) and Dayr al-Qassi; the  total population was 2,300  and their  total land area was 34,011 dunums. 1,607 dunams were plantations and irrigable land, 6,475 used for cereals, while 247 dunams were built-up (urban) land.

Israeli period
Al-Mansura was believed to have been attacked during the Israeli offensive Operation Hiram in October 1948. In mid-November, the Israeli Army had Palestinian Arab villages on the Lebanese border cleared, including al-Mansura. Its residents were expelled from the village, with some leaving for Lebanon while most were sent to the Arab town of Rameh in the heart of the Galilee. The Maronite Church requested that the Israeli government allow al-Mansura's inhabitants to resettle the village but were refused. The residents of al-Mansura continued to demand permission from the Israeli courts to resettle for some time after, but were unsuccessful.

Several Jewish localities have been built on al-Mansura's lands, including Elkosh established in 1949, the military base Biranit in the early 1950s, Netu'a in 1966, Mattat in 1979 and Abirim in 1980. According to Palestinian historian Walid Khalidi whose researchers visited the village before 1992, "The village houses have been completely leveled. Much of the resulting debris has been pushed together in heaps along the northern edge of the site." The only structure remaining was the partially collapsed church.

title: Al-Mansura, Acre


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Common redshank

The common redshank or simply redshank (Tringa totanus) is a Eurasian wader in the large family Scolopacidae.

Taxonomy
The common redshank was formally described by the Swedish naturalist Carl Linnaeus in 1758 in the tenth edition of his Systema Naturae under the binomial name Scolopax totanus. It is now placed with twelve other species in the genus Tringa that Linnaeus had introduced in 1758. The genus name Tringa is the Neo-Latin name given to the green sandpiper by the Italian naturalist Ulisse Aldrovandi in 1603 based on Ancient Greek trungas, a thrush-sized, white-rumped, tail-bobbing wading bird mentioned by Aristotle. The specific totanus is from Tótano, the Italian name for this bird.

Six subspecies are recognised:
 * T. t. robusta (Schiøler, 1919) – breeds in Iceland and the Faroe Islands; non-breeding around the British Isles and west Europe
 * T. t. totanus (Linnaeus, 1758) – breeds in west, north Europe to west Siberia; winters in Africa, India and Indonesia
 * T. t. ussuriensis Buturlin, 1934 – breeds in southern Siberia, Mongolia and east Asia; non-breeding in Africa, India and southeast Asia
 * T. t. terrignotae Meinertzhagen, R. & Meinertzhagen, A., 1926 – breeds in southern Manchuria and eastern China; non-breeding in east and southeast Asia
 * T. t. craggi Hale, 1971 – breeds in northwest China; non-breeding in east and southeast Asia
 * T. t. eurhina (Oberholser, 1900) – breeds in Tajikistan, north India and Tibet; non-breeding in India and the Malay Peninsula

Description
Common redshanks in breeding plumage are a marbled brown color, slightly lighter below. In winter plumage they become somewhat lighter-toned and less patterned, being rather plain greyish-brown above and whitish below. They have red legs and a black-tipped red bill, and show white up the back and on the wings in flight.

The spotted redshank (T. erythropus), which breeds in the Arctic, has a longer bill and legs; it is almost entirely black in breeding plumage and very pale in winter. It is not a particularly close relative of the common redshank, but rather belongs to a high-latitude lineage of largish shanks. T. totanus on the other hand is closely related to the marsh sandpiper (T. stagnatilis), and closer still to the small wood sandpiper (T. glareola). The ancestors of the latter and the common redshank seem to have diverged around the Miocene-Pliocene boundary, about 5–6 million years ago. These three subarctic- to temperate-region species form a group of smallish shanks with have red or yellowish legs, and in breeding plumage are generally a subdued light brown above with some darker mottling, and have somewhat diffuse small brownish spots on the breast and neck.

Distribution and habitat
The common redshank is a widespread breeding bird across temperate Eurasia. It is a migratory species, wintering on coasts around the Mediterranean, on the Atlantic coast of Europe from Ireland and Great Britain southwards, and in South Asia. They are uncommon vagrants outside these areas; on Palau in Micronesia for example, the species was recorded in the mid-1970s and in 2000. A tagged redshank was spotted at Manakudi Bird Sanctuary, Kanniyakumari District of Tamil Nadu, India in the month of April 2021.

Behaviour and ecology
They are wary and noisy birds which will alert everything else with their loud piping call.

Breeding
Redshanks will nest in any wetland, from damp meadows to saltmarsh, often at high densities. They lay 3–5 eggs.

Food and feeding
Like most waders, they feed on small invertebrates.

Status
The common redshank is widely distributed and quite plentiful in some regions, and thus not considered a threatened species by the IUCN. It is one of the species to which the Agreement on the Conservation of African-Eurasian Migratory Waterbirds (AEWA) applies.

title: Common redshank


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Père David's deer

The Père David's deer (Elaphurus davidianus), also known as the milu or elaphure, is a species of deer native to the subtropical river valleys of China. It grazes mainly on grass and aquatic plants. It is the only extant member of the genus Elaphurus. Some experts suggest demoting Elaphurus to a subgenus of Cervus. Based on genetic comparisons, Père David's deer is closely related to Eld's deer.

Père David's deer were hunted almost to extinction in their native China by the late 19th century, but a number were taken to zoos in France and Germany and the deer was bred successfully in captivity. In the early 20th century, the British nobleman and politician Herbrand Russell, 11th Duke of Bedford, acquired a few Père David's deer from the Berlin Zoo and built up a large herd on his estate at Woburn Abbey. In the 1980s, the duke's great-grandson Robin Russell, 14th Duke of Bedford, donated several dozen deer to the Chinese government for reintroducing the species to the wild. As of 2020, the wild population in China was an estimated 2,825 individuals, with a further 7,380 in various nature reserves in China. All Père David's deer alive today descend from Herbrand Russell's original herd.

Demography
The Père David's deer is endemic to the Chinese region. According to fossil records, the species first appeared during the Pleistocene period, when it could be found across Manchuria. This demography changed during the Holocene period; during this time, the species could only be found in the swamp lands and wetlands of southern China. Due to hunting and land reclamation, the population of the Père David's deer became even smaller. By 1939, the last of the wild species were shot and killed.

Naming and etymology
This species of deer was first made known to Western science in 1866 by Armand David (Père David), a French missionary working in China. He obtained some hides and the carcasses of an adult male, an adult female and a young male, and sent them to Paris, where the species was named "Père David's deer" by Alphonse Milne-Edwards, a French biologist.

The species is sometimes known by its informal name sibuxiang (Japanese: shifuzō), literally meaning "four not alike", which could mean "the four unlikes" or "like none of the four"; it is variously said that the four are cow, deer, donkey, horse (or) camel, and that the expression means in detail:
 * "the hooves of a cow but not a cow, the neck of a camel but not a camel, antlers of a deer but not a deer, the tail of a donkey but not a donkey."
 * "the nose of a cow but not a cow, the antlers of a deer but not a deer, the body of a donkey but not a donkey, tail of a horse but not a horse"
 * "the tail of a donkey, the head of a horse, the hoofs of a cow, the antlers of a deer"
 * "the neck of a camel, the hoofs of a cow, the tail of a donkey, the antlers of a deer"
 * "the antlers of a deer, the head of a horse and the body of a cow"

By this name, this undomesticated animal entered Chinese mythology as the mount of Jiang Ziya in Fengshen Bang (translated as Investiture of the Gods), a Chinese classical work of fiction written during the Ming Dynasty.

Characteristics
The adult Père David's deer reaches a head-and-body length of up to 1.9 - 2.2 m and stands about 1.2 m tall at the shoulder. The tail is relatively long for a deer, measuring 50 - 66 cm when straightened. Weight is between 135 and 200 kg. The head is long and slender with large eyes, very large preorbital glands, a naked nose pad and small, pointed ears.

The branched antlers are unique in that the long tines point backward, while the main beam extends almost directly upward. There may be two pairs per year. The summer antlers are the larger set, and are dropped in November, after the summer rut. The second set—if they appear—are fully grown by January, and fall off a few weeks later.

The coat is reddish tan in the summer, changing to a dull gray in the winter. Long wavy guard hairs are present on and coat throughout the year, with the coat becoming woolier in winter. There is a mane on the neck and throat and a black dorsal stripe running along the cervicothoracic spine. The tail is about 50 cm in length, with a dark tuft at the end. The hooves are large and spreading, and make clicking sounds (as in the reindeer) when the animal is moving.

A semiaquatic animal, Père David's deer swims well, spending long periods standing in water up to its shoulders. Although predominantly a grazer, the deer supplements its grass diet with aquatic plants in the summer.

Behavior
Père David's deer has similar reproductive physiological mechanisms to other deer species living in temperate latitudes. These mechanisms aid in the adaptation to a high-latitude environment. The reproductive behavior in stags differs from hinds. In stags rutting behavior includes urine sniffing, anogenital sniffing, wallowing, and antler adorning. Communication behavior includes the spraying of urine and preorbital gland marking. The stags generally begin to rut before any signs of female sexual behavior. The reason to this is to establish a social rank among the stags. For Père David's deer the stag initiates the breeding season with the rutting. In hinds, estrous behavior includes urinating frequently, receptivity, and allowing the stags to mount. Parental behavior involves sniffing the calf, calling, and rubbing the face of the calf. The hind has a typical behavior of being solitary.

Birth and lifespan
The gestation period is about nine months, roughly around 280 days, after which a single offspring is usually born; twins are born rarely. The gestation period is significantly longer than any other deer besides the roe deer. Père David's deer are considered seasonal breeders because three out of four calves are born during April in captive European populations. The breeding season is 160 days with the mating season usually being in June and July. Calf weight, calculated using Robbins and Robbins equation, tends to be between 11.3 and 13.2 kg. The juveniles (referred to as either fawns or calves) have a spotted coat, as is commonly seen in most species of deer. They are known to develop very quickly after birth. They reach sexual maturity at about 14 months. The average lifespan of a Père David deer is up to 18 years.

In captivity
An experiment was conducted to show how captivity would affect the deer's behavior and survival rate. Two areas were created; one with a large area containing a few Père David's deer present and one with a small area containing a high concentration of Père David's deer present. It was found when in captivity, it is best to keep the deer in large open areas that allow for adequate space with a reasonable number of individual deer living in the area; if put in a small area with a multitude of individuals present, stress amongst the deer will build up. Studies have shown through the high concentration of fecal matter in an area of captivity with limited space and a large number of Père David deer that they have shown different behavioral patterns to their wild counterparts. These deer would spend less time resting, and would stand longer due to human presence as well as display social aggression and competition over food sources. It is therefore unwise to keep them in small, densely populated areas to prevent accumulation of stress and aggression against each other.

The Père David's deer has been in isolation from the wild for more than 1200 years, causing humans to be the primary perceived threat due to a long-term lack of exposure to other natural predators. When encountering humans, the deer's response varies according to sex. Female-only groups display a lower degree of caution towards humans than in male-only groups. It was hypothesized that the presence of a single type of threat may be sufficient to maintain anti-predator responses in the face of relaxed predation pressure. During rutting season, the does will display increased vigilance and heightened threat perception, likely in response to the mating activities of the males.

Predation
Historically, the main predators of the Père David's deer are believed to have been tigers and leopards. Although they no longer encounter these predators while living in captivity, while experimenting with exposures to images and stimuli relating to these big cats, the deer seemed to instinctively react with a cautious predator–prey response typical of wild deer.

Population
In Neolithic times, the milu's range extended across much of China Proper. Archaeologists have found milu antlers at settlements from the Liao River in the north to Jiangsu and Zhejiang Province and across the Yellow and Yangtze River Basins in Shaanxi and Hunan Province. According to official data, the total population of the species has exceeded 8,000 in China. Milu is also under first-class state protection in China. In 1985, China Biodiversity Conservation and Green Development Foundation (CBCGDF) was established to help receive 22 Père David's deer from the Marquess of Tavistock of Woburn Abbey, England as a gift to return to their ancestral soil.

Extirpation in China
In the late 19th century, the world's only herd belonged to Tongzhi, the Emperor of China. The herd was maintained in the Nanyuan Royal Hunting Garden in Nan Haizi, near Peking. In 1895, one of the walls of the hunting garden was destroyed by a heavy flood of the Yongding River, and most of the deer escaped and some of them were killed and eaten by starving peasants. Fewer than thirty Père David's deer remained in the garden. Then in 1900, during the Boxer Rebellion, the garden was occupied by troops from the German Empire and all the remaining deer were shot and eaten by the soldiers, leaving the Père David's deer extirpated in its native China. A few of the deer had been legally obtained by the French and British Missions in Beijing and transported to various European zoos for exhibition and breeding. After the extirpation of the Chinese population in 1900, the English nobleman Herbrand Russell, 11th Duke of Bedford, was instrumental in saving the species. He acquired the few remaining deer from European zoos and formed a breeding herd in the deer park at his home at Woburn Abbey in Bedfordshire. Threatened again by both World Wars, the species survived largely due to the efforts of Bedford and his son Hastings, later 12th Duke of Bedford. The current world population, now found in zoos around the world, stems from the Woburn Abbey herd. Only three founders (1 male, two females) from the Berlin Zoo contributed to the current population of more than 5,000.

Reintroduction
Reintroduction of Père David's deer to China began in 1985, with a herd of 20 deer (5 males and 15 females). This was followed in 1987 by a second herd, consisting of 18 deer (all females). Both herds had been drawn from the Woburn Abbey herd and were donated by Robin Russell, Marquess of Tavistock (d. 2003) (the future 14th Duke of Bedford), the 11th duke's great-grandson. In 2005 the Beijing authorities erected a statue of the 14th duke at Nan Haizi to mark the 20th anniversary of the Milu reintroduction. The transportation was sponsored by the World Wildlife Fund. The relic site of the Nanyuan (or Nan Haizi ) Royal Hunting Garden in the southern suburbs of Beijing was chosen as the site of re-introduction, creating the Beijing Milu Park. The population in China expanded to around 2,000 in 2005.

A second re-introduction into China was conducted in 1986 where 36 Père David's deer were chosen from five UK zoological gardens with the bulk of the deer coming from Whipsnade Wild Animal Park in Bedfordshire. These deer were introduced into Dafeng Milu National Nature Reserve, near the Yellow Sea coast in eastern China. In 2006 the population at this Nature Reserve had reached around 950 with an average annual population increase of 17%.

Of 1993, 30 deer taken from the herd at Beijing Milu Park were released into the Tian'ezhou Milu National Nature Reserve (a.k.a. Shishou Milu National Nature Reserve) in Dayuan Town, Shishou. These were followed by another 34 deer taken from Beijing Park and released into the Tian'ezhou Reserve. In a 1998 flood, a number of deer escaped from the reserve and have since been living and multiplying in the wild. As of 2015, the number of deer living in the wild is 700. The average annual population growth rate for Père David's deer in Tianezhou Nature Reserve was 22.2%.

In 2002, 30 deer taken from the herd at Beijing Milu Park and 20 from Dafeng Nature Reserve were released into the Yuanyang Yellow River Nature Reserve. When the species was assessed for the IUCN Red List (1996), it was classified as "critically endangered" in the wild, under criterion "D": "[wild] population estimated to number less than 50 mature individuals". In October 2008, they were officially listed as extinct in the wild. Upon the status being updated in March 2016, it was clarified on this species' IUCN Red List page that it would remain listed as "Extinct in the Wild" until the reintroduced population proved long-term viability. Today, there are 53 herds of Père David's deer in China. Nine of the herds consist of 25 or under deer, and the remaining herds have under 10 deer. Due to the small population size a lack of genetic diversity is expected, but in spite of the small population size, the animals do not appear to suffer genetic problems from the genetic bottleneck. The captive population in China has increased in recent years, and the possibility remains that free-ranging populations can be reintroduced in the near future.

When reintroduced into their habitat, the species could face many problems due to years in captivity. Relaxed selection and reproduction with no environmental pressure may have taken place for Père David's deer, due to captive breeding, which can result in the loss of adaptive anti-predator behavior. It is possible that when fully released in the environment from captivity, after generations of offspring, the species could be unable to retain parasite-defense behaviors like grooming. If the population is reintroduced into the environment with no protection against tick infestation, then they can face major problems if not adapted to that environment. Père David's deer may also become confused by other predators such as tigers, since they are no longer adapted to them. A study was done on members of the species in captivity using the sounds of wild tigers roaring and domestic dogs barking, and the deer did not respond to the barking of the dogs, but hearing the tiger roar caused the deer to spend more time being cautious after hearing the sound, thus showing that the deer still retained ancestral memories of their previous predator, the tiger.

Red deer hybrid
Though New Zealand lacked its own terrestrial mammals, European settlers had introduced numerous species of deer into the land for the use of farming and hunting. Some of these deer species had crossbred in the wild, creating hybrids, which in turn were then utilized in deer farms based on their apparent genetic improvements. Alongside this discovery, deer farms began the practice of inciting hybridization in order to encourage genetic advancement. This includes a hybrid between Père David's deer and Red deer. These F1 hybrids are unique for several reasons. To begin with, both male and female offspring of this hybrid remain fertile, a rare prospect especially for species that have such a genetic distance. Both species differ in seasonal behaviors, gestation length, behavioral traits, morphology, maturity size, and disease resistance. Père David's deer is also unique in that its antlers are unlike any other deer in the world. However, due to having different seasonal behavior each species would enter their mating season at different intervals, thus preventing natural mating from occurring. In response, artificial insemination was employed on Red deer hinds with the semen from Père David's deer. These F1 hybrids did not share similar mating seasons with Père David's deer and as such were able to successfully mate with other red deer naturally. Three F1 hybrid stags successfully mated naturally in a period from 1989 to 1991 with 144 hinds and semen had been used to artificially inseminate 114 other Red deer hinds producing over 300 backcross hybrids.

Legend and cultural significance
According to Chinese legend, when the tyrant King Zhou of Shang ruled the land more than 3,000 years ago, a horse, a donkey, an ox and a deer went into a cave in the forest to meditate and on the day the King executed his minister Bigan, the animals awoke from their meditation and turned into humans. They entered society, learned of the King's heinous acts and wanted to take recourse against the King, who was powerful. So they transformed themselves into one creature that combined the speed of the horse, the strength of the ox, the donkey's keen sense of direction and the nimble agility of the deer. This new animal then galloped to the Kunlun Mountains to seek the advice of the Primeval Lord of Heaven. The Lord was astonished at the sight of a creature that had antlers of a deer, hooves of an ox, face of a horse and tail of a donkey. "It's unlike any of four creatures!" he exclaimed. Upon learning of the animal's quest, Lord gave his blessing and dispatched the creature to his disciple the sage Jiang Ziya, who was battling the King. Jiang Ziya rode the creature to victory over the King and helped found the Zhou Dynasty. After fulfilling its vow, the milu settled in the lower reaches of the Yangtze River. The animal became a symbol of good fortune and was sought by later emperors who believed eating the meat of the milu would lead to everlasting life.

title: Père David's deer


text:
Redshank

Redshank may refer to:

 * Redshank (soldier), 16th-century Scottish mercenaries

Birds

 * Common redshank Tringa totanus, a shorebird
 * Spotted redshank Tringa erythropus, a shorebird

Plants

 * Redshanks Adenostoma sparsifolium, a shrub
 * Redshank Persicaria maculosa, a plant in the buckwheat family
 * Redshank Ceratodon purpureus, a moss
 * Scarce redshank Ceratodon conicus, a moss of Britain and Ireland

title: Redshank


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Talk:Alligatoridae

Caimans as pets?
A neighbor of mine had a pet caiman back in the late 70's. It was purchased at a pet store in Southern California. She ended up giving it to the Aligator Farm in Buena Park when it was too big to handle.

Is it legal to own a pet caiman anywhere in the U.S.? Do you need a permit?

Caiman or Cayman?
Caimen or Caymen? We should be consistent. Opinions please. Tannin
 * just to muddy the waters (LOL), my preference would be Caiman, Crocodile Jim

 * Newspaper reports on the one half a mile from my house have "caiman." I was actually looking for the animal under that name in Wikipedia. --Calieber 13:09, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * While Caiman seems to be the currently preferred spelling, I've seen Cayman, Kayman, and rarely Kaiman. Also, since the word has nothing to do with 'Man' as in Homo sapiens, the proper plural is Caimans (Note the 's'). CFLeon 00:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I prefer caiman. Dora Nichov 09:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The correct scientific spelling is "caiman." Cayman is often used colloquially (e.g. the Cayman Islands). However, colloquially, "caiman" or "cayman" means lots of different things. For example, in some parts of Latin America, the American crocodile is called "caiman de la costa," and the animals we call "caiman" are called "alligator." Technically, the term is derived from a Carib Indian language. The species to which it referred (if it was indeed a name for a particular species) is unknown, but, given the location, was very likely NOT am alligatorid. The term was used by the French in the early 19th century for alligatorids; it was by an misreading of this use that the term was introduced into the formal literature by Spix in 1825 (he apparently thought it was the preferred, formal term for "Alligator"), applied to the black caiman and the broad-snouted caiman. So, yeah, stick with "caiman." J. R. Wagner, UT Austin 70.113.48.142 00:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Puzzling...
I just edited out a puzzling statement claiming that the Bill Haley recording See You Later Alligator allegedly "saluted the departure of the Los Angeles Alligator Farm from Los Angeles to Buena Park, California." I've been researching Bill Haley's music for 25 years and I can say with certainty that this is most definitely incorrect. Can anyone provide a source for this original statement? If so, please leave a note in my Talk area - I'm curious to find out where this came from. Thanks! 23skidoo 22:04, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Separate Article
Shouldn't Caimans have a separate article from alligators? Alligators already have their own article, it seems stupid to have an Alligator article and a Alligator and Caiman article. TastyCakes 17:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree. Dora Nichov 09:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

In principle, I agree, although it seems OK to me when there is very little written specifically about caimans. As this information increases, however, (or if somebody wants to write a bunch right now), then they should get there own article. In my opinion (and this is why I came to this talk page in the first place), the larger problem is that much of the information here (particularly cultural references) is specifically about alligators! (Moving that will also make it easier to see how much stuff there is specifically about caimans.) —Toby Bartels 15:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit: Cultural references
I reworded the paragraph about sewer gator legends, as it had claimed that lack of UV radiation in the sewers made it impossible for alligators to be flushed.

Alligator, true alligator, alligatoridae
I'm confused. Alligators represented by the Caiman but they are not true alligators? --Gbleem 03:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The family Alligatoridae is composed of two groups: caiman (=subfamily Caimaninae) and true alligators (=subfamily Diplocynodontinae). I'll give you that much of this page is written in a confusing manner, with the word "alligator" sometimes meaning "alligatoridae" and sometimes meaning "diplocynodontinae."  But, hey, this is Wikipedia, so you can fix it!  Enuja 04:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait, wait. Where does diplocynodontinae come from? Is Diplocynodon a senior synonym of Alligator? By ICZN rules, if Alligator is the type of Alligatoridae, and it's the senior-most family name available, the rule of coordination comes into play--that is, it must go Alligatoroidea, Alligatoridae, Alligatorinae, Alligator. In fact, now that I look this up, Diplocynodon appears to be a member of Diplocynodontidae, a seperate family from Alligatoridae all together. I'll change this back pending an explaination... Dinoguy2 07:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I was just going from the Wikipedia article; your skepticism is appropriate, and I have no explaination. Enuja 18:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Dinoguy is correct. Diplocynodontinae does not include Alligator. Currently, extant alligatorids are grouped into Caimaninae and Alligatorinae; Diplocynodontinae was erected for a small but important group of fossils that are considered to be outside of Alligatoridae proper. In standard Linnean terms, this would mean they need a family of their own, that being Diplocynodontidae. J. R. Wagner, UT Austin 70.113.48.142 00:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Is this ledgible?
This article is confusing and the language employed is poor. It looks like someone ran the text through babelfish. can someone with knowledge please correct the language? What's this nonsense about?

"Alligators proper occur in the fluvial deposits of the age of the Upper Chalk in Europe, where they did not die out until the Pliocene age."

I'm a geologist and it's got me lost.

 * You're also illiterate, Springyard. "ledgible" and "it's got" are worse.  Why don't you look up "proper" in the dictionary? -lysdexia 00:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.229.2 (talk)

Danger
The article makes this claim: "The Black Caiman and American Alligator are the only members of the alligator family posing the same danger to humans as the larger species of the crocodile family."

Huh? Everything I've read says American Alligators aren't nearly as dangerous as crocodiles. (I know nothing about the black caiman.) Where did this come from? Does anyone have a source? (Sources would be good everywhere in this article.) --MiguelMunoz (talk) 17:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Caiman Picture
The pictures in the article are said to be of Alligators not Caimans? well, I took this picture at the caiman exhibit at the Mayaguez zoo in Puerto Rico. Maybe it can be used. They look alot smaller than alligators. There also seems to be some good caiman online articles to get info from, such as hereCaiman crocodilus well, we will see. Arsdelicata (talk) 14:43, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

adding picture

Arsdelicata (talk) 14:45, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Alligatorinae

 * Don't merge this family article to to the subfamilyAlligatorinae, becauce this family even have the subfamily Caimaninae plus two extinct genuses.
 * Strong oppose, don't merge Alligatoridae & Alligatorinae! What, do you know better than the taxonomists??? Valerius Tygart (talk) 11:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

MobileReference
I have removed the footnote asserting that the list of taxa in the Taxonomy section of the article appears to have been copied from MobileReference's The Illustrated Encyclopedia of North American Reptiles and Amphibians, since the copying has almost certainly been in the opposite direction. MobileReference's encyclopedia is a fork of Wikipedia (see the licensing information on its "back cover"), as are many other of its publications. David Wilson (talk · cont) 15:53, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Caiman sorontans
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alligatoridae&diff=next&oldid=52736712 I think Radetzky22 was a troll and there is no Caiman sorontans that exist. This edit was similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Columbidae&diff=prev&oldid=53182286 Black-headed Pigeon, Columba nigercapitis? --Toxoplasma II. (talk) 23:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

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distribution
Something I looked for that in the article, not there, wished it was, didn't fix that, wrote this message to the future: if you have that information handy, please send an email, thanks cygnis insignis 21:27, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alligatoridae