text:
User:Dmsar

Dmsar is the nickname for Len Bounds.

Len was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1964. Len has lived in Arizona, Mississippi, Oregon, and Japan.

Cities Len has lived in Len went to Arizona State University where he majored in Asian languages. These languages included Chinese (Mandarin) and Japanese. He also met his first wife, a Japanese national, while attending the University. Len also attended Beaverton High School in Beaverton, Oregon. Since 1996, Len has worked for the Oregon Department of Transportation in the Informaton Technology area.
 * Phoenix, Arizona
 * Tempe, Arizona
 * Portland, Oregon
 * Salem, Oregon
 * Sutherlin, Oregon
 * Jackson, Mississippi
 * Tokyo, Japan

He currently lives in Salem, Oregon with his wife, Linda, and their two cats, Lucy (chocolate-point Siamese cat) and Squidget (part Siamese).

title: User:Dmsar


text:
Talk:1852 in literature

Catherine Crowe's SUSAN HOPLEY was published in 1841, not 1852.

 * Thankyou for pointing this out, has been corrected now. By the way, it is possible for you to edit articles themselves, by clicking "Edit this page". Welcome to the Wikipædia. كسيپ Cyp 21:12 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:1852 in literature


text:
NPL

NPL may refer to:

Sport

 * National Pickleball League, an age 50+ professional pickleball league
 * National Pool League, a defunct American pool league
 * Nepal Premier League, a professional cricket league

Football

 * Namibia Premier League, the defunct top tier of football in Namibia
 * National Premier League, the top tier of football in Jamaica
 * National Premier Leagues, the second tier of men's football in Australia
 * National Premier Leagues Women's, the second tier of women's football in Australia
 * Nigerian Premier League, the top tier of football in Nigeria
 * Northern Premier League, at the seventh and eighth tier of football in England
 * Northern Premier League (Tasmania), a third tier football league in Australia covering northern Tasmania
 * Norwegian Premier League, the top tier of football in Norway

Computing

 * Netscape Public License, a free software license
 * New programming language, the original name of PL/I by IBM in 1964
 * Nonprocedural language, by T.D. Truitt et al. in 1980
 * NPL programming language, a functional programming language by Rod Burstall and John Darlington in 1977
 * NORD Programming Language, an internal systems language used at Norsk Data
 * NPL network, a computer network from 1967 until 1986, a precursor to the world wide web

Organizations

 * National Party of Liberia
 * National Puzzlers' League, the oldest puzzlers' organization in the world
 * Non-Partisan League, an American socialist political organization
 * National Physical Laboratory (United Kingdom)
 * National Physical Laboratory of India
 * New Paradise Laboratories, an experimental theater ensemble in Pennsylvania, USA

Places

 * Nepal (ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code)
 * New Plymouth Airport (IATA code), New Zealand

Other uses

 * National Priorities List, an EPA list of hazardous waste sites in the United States
 * Nauru Pacific Line, the national shipping line of the Republic of Nauru
 * Non-Patent Literature, used before the United States Patent and Trademark Office
 * Non-performing loan, a loan close to, or in default
 * Novgorod First Chronicle (Novgorodskaia pervaia letopis’), the oldest extant Rus' chronicle of the Novgorod Republic
 * Nuclear pumped laser, a laser pumped with the energy of fission fragments

title: NPL


text:
Council of Clermont

The Council of Clermont was a mixed synod of ecclesiastics and laymen of the Catholic Church, called by Pope Urban II and held from 17 to 27 November 1095 at Clermont, Auvergne, at the time part of the Duchy of Aquitaine.

While the council is known today primarily for the speech Pope Urban gave on the final day, it was primarily a synod focused on implementing the Cluniac reforms, enacting decrees and settling local and regional issues. This also included the extension of the excommunication of Philip I of France for his adulterous remarriage to Bertrade of Montfort and a declaration of renewal of the Truce of God, an attempt on the part of the church to reduce feuding among Frankish nobles.

Pope Urban's speech on 27 November included the call to arms that would result in the First Crusade, and eventually the capture of Jerusalem and the establishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. In this, Urban reacted to the request by Byzantine emperor Alexius I Comnenus who had sent envoys to the Council of Piacenza requesting military assistance against the Seljuk Turks. Several accounts of the speech survive; of these, the one by Fulcher of Chartres, who was present at the council, is generally accepted as the most reliable.

Participants
The council was attended by about 300 clerics. No official list of the participants or of the signatories to the decrees of the Council survives. A partial list of some of the attendees can nonetheless be constructed.

 * Joannes, Cardinal Bishop of Porto
 * Dagobert, Archbishop of Pisa
 * Saint Bruno, Bishop of Segni
 * Gualterius, Cardinal Bishop of Albano
 * Rangerius, O.S.B., Archbishop of Reggio Calabria
 * Richard, Cardinal Priest and Abbot of S. Victor in Marseille
 * Teuzo, Cardinal Priest of SS. Joannis et Pauli
 * Albertus, O.S.B., Cardinal Priest of Santa Sabina
 * Joannes Gattellus, the Pope's Chancellor
 * Gregory Papiensis, deacon
 * Hugo of Verdun, deacon
 * Hugues de Die, Archbishop of Lyon and Papal Legate
 * Amatus, Archbishop of Bordeaux and Papal Legate
 * Rainaldus, Archbishop of Reims
 * Richerius, Archbishop of Sens
 * Rollandus, Bishop of Dol
 * Dalmatius, Archbishop of Narbonne
 * Bernard of Sédirac, Archbishop of Toledo and Legate in Spain
 * Hoellus (Hoël,) Bishop of Le Mans
 * Geoffrey of Vendôme, Cardinal Priest of the titular church of Santa Prisca on the Aventine
 * Benedict, Bishop of Nantes
 * Petrus, Bishop of Poitiers
 * Ivo, Bishop of Chartres
 * Lambert, bishop of Arras
 * Joannes, Bishop of Orléans
 * Roger, Bishop of Beauvais
 * Radulfus (Raoul), Archbishop of Tours
 * Hilgot, former Bishop of Soissons, monk of Marmoutiers

Speech

There are six main sources of information about this portion of the council:

 * 1) A letter that was written by Urban himself in December 1095 referring to the council;
 * 2) The anonymous Gesta Francorum ("The Deeds of the Franks" dated c. 1100/1101);
 * 3) Fulcher of Chartres, who was present at the council, in his Gesta Francorum Iherusalem peregrinantium (c. 1100–1105);
 * 4) Robert the Monk, who may have been present at the council, in Historia Hierosolymitana (1107);
 * 5) Baldric, archbishop of Dol (written c. 1105);
 * 6) Guibert de Nogent, Dei gesta per Francos (1107/8).

The five versions of the speech vary widely in their details. The account by Fulcher, who is known to have been present at the council, is generally considered the most reliable version.

Urban's own letter, written in December 1095 and addressed to the faithful "waiting in Flanders," does lament that "a barbaric fury has deplorably afflicted and laid waste the churches of God in the regions of the Orient". Urban does allude to Jerusalem, saying that this barbaric fury has "even grasped in intolerable servitude its churches and the Holy City of Christ, glorified by His passion and resurrection". He calls upon the princes to "free the churches of the East", appointing Adhemar of Le Puy as the leader of the expedition, to set out on the day of the Assumption of Mary (15 August 1096).

The Gesta Francorum does not give an account of the speech at any length, it merely mentions that Urban called upon all to "take up the way of the Lord" and be prepared to suffer much, assured of their reward in heaven. It goes on to emphasize how news of Urban's call to arms quickly spread by word of mouth "through all the regions and countries of Gaul, the Franks, upon hearing such reports, forthwith caused crosses to be sewed on their right shoulders, saying that they followed with one accord the footsteps of Christ, by which they had been redeemed from the hand of hell."

Fulcher
Fulcher of Chartres was present at the speech, and recorded it in Gesta Francorum Jerusalem Expugnantium. He was writing from memory a few years later (c. 1100–1105). He asserts, in his prologue, that he is recording only such events as he had seen with his own eyes, and his record is  phrased in a way consistent with the style of oration known from papal speeches in the 11th century.

In Fulcher's text, Urban begins by reminding the clergy present that they are shepherds, and that they must be vigilant and avoid carelessness and corruption. He reminds them to refrain from simony and to adhere to the laws of the church. Urban complains about the lack of justice and public order in the Frankish provinces and calls for the re-establishment of the truce protecting clergy from violence. In the historiography of the Crusades, there is a long-standing argument as to how much the pacification of the Frankish realm was designed to go hand in hand with the "export of violence" to the enemy in the east. Fulcher reports that everyone present agreed to the pope's propositions and promised to adhere to the church's decrees.

In the second portion of his speech, Urban urges the Frankish Christians that once they have re-established peace and righteousness in their own land, they should turn their attention to the East and bring aid to the Christians there, as the Turks had attacked them and had recently conquered the territory of Romania (i.e., Byzantine Anatolia) as far west as the Mediterranean,  the part known as the "Arm of Saint George" (the Sea of Marmara), killing and capturing many Christians and destroying churches and devastating the kingdom of God. In order to avoid further loss of territory and even more widespread attacks on Christians, Urban calls on the clergy present to publish his call to arms everywhere, and persuade all people of whatever rank, both nobles and commoners, to go to the aid of the Christians currently under attack. Concluding his call to arms with "Christ commands it" (Christus autem imperat), Urban defines the crusade both as a defensive just war and as a religious holy war.

Urban goes on to promise immediate absolution to all who die either on the way or in battle against Muslims. He then connects his call to arms with his previous call for peace in Gaul: "Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor." The speech ends with Urban asking that all who plan to go rent their lands and raise money for their expenses as soon as possible, and that they leave when winter ends and spring begins.

Robert
Some historians prefer the version of the speech reported by Robert the Monk in his Historia Iherosolimitana, written in 1107. Robert gives a more vivid account, consisting both of a more elaborate sermon and the "dramatic response" of the audience, bursting into spontaneous cries of Deus vult. In Robert's version, Urban calls the "race of the Franks" to Christian orthodoxy, reform and submission to the Church and to come to the aid of the Greek Christians in the east. As in Fulcher's account, Urban promises remission of sins for those who went to the east. Robert's account of Urban's speech has the rhetoric of a dramatic "battle speech". Urban here emphasizes reconquering the Holy Land more than aiding the Greeks, an aspect lacking in Fulcher's version and considered by many historians an insertion informed by the success of the First Crusade. Both Robert's and Fulcher's accounts of the speech include a description of the terrible plight of the Christians in the East under the recent conquests of the Turks and the promise of remission of sins for those who go to their aid. Robert's version, however, includes a more vivid description of the atrocities committed by the conquerors, describing the desecration of churches, the forced circumcision, beheading and torture by disemboweling of Christian men and alluding to grievous rape of Christian women. Perhaps with the wisdom of hindsight, Robert makes Urban advise that none but knights should go, not the old and feeble, nor priests without the permission of their bishops, "for such are more of a hindrance than aid, more of a burden than advantage... nor ought women to set out at all, without their husbands or brothers or legal guardians."

Other versions
About the same time, Baldric, archbishop of Dol, also basing his account generally on Gesta Francorum, reported an emotional sermon focusing on the offenses of the Muslims and the reconquest of the Holy Land in terms likely to appeal to chivalry. Like Fulcher he also recorded that Urban deplored the violence of the Christian knights of Gaul. "It is less wicked to brandish your sword against Saracens," Baldric's Urban cries, comparing them to the Amalekites. The violence of knights he wanted to see ennobled in the service of Christ, defending the churches of the East as if defending a mother. Baldric asserts that Urban, there on the spot, appointed the bishop of Puy to lead the crusade.

Guibert, abbot of Nogent in his Dei gesta per Francos (1107/8) also made that Urban emphasize the reconquest of the Holy Land more than help to the Greeks or other Christians there. This emphasis may, as in the case of Robert and Baldric, be due to the influence account of the reconquest of Jerusalem in the Gesta Francorum. Urban's speech in Guibert's version, emphasizes the sanctity of the Holy Land, which must be in Christian possession so that prophecies about the end of the world could be fulfilled.

General and cited references

 * Somerville, Robert, "The Council of Clermont and the First Crusade", Studia Gratiana 20 (1976), 325–337.
 * Somerville, Robert, "The Council of Clermont (1095), and Latin Christian Society", Archivum Historiae Pontificiae 12 (1974): 55–90 (jstor.org).
 * Strack, Georg, "The sermon of Urban II in Clermont 1095 and the Tradition of Papal Oratory", Medieval Sermon Studies 56 (2012): 30–45 (pdf).
 * (https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004428560)
 * (https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004428560)

title: Council of Clermont


text:
ComedySportz

ComedySportz (CSz) is an improvisational comedy organization started in 1984 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, by a group of local comedians including Dick Chudnow, Bob Orvis, Brian Green, and others.

Match format
The traditional format of a ComedySportz match features two teams of improvisational performers ("Players"), competing in various rounds, using improv games and performing scenes. Audience members judge the results and award points as directed by the Referee. In every match, a ComedySportz referee monitors the action, awarding points, and administering Fouls as necessary. The flavor is somewhat like the television show Whose Line Is It Anyway?, though the ComedySportz organization precedes that show's debut by 4 years. The CSz format is a more competitive and For Everyone (content-wise) version of the Theatresports format, which preceded ComedySportz by 7 years.

ComedySportz penalties (put in place for the audience's benefit) include:
 * Out of Bounds Foul: called when a player uses explicit language or refers to something crass or off-color. If the Out of Bounds Foul is called, the offending player or audience member must spend the remainder of the game outside the theater space. They may or may not be welcomed back in. (Originally called the "Brown Bag Foul", the player would have a brown paper bag placed on their head for the rest of the round but replaced by the "Out of Bounds Foul" due to COVID-19 in 2022.)
 * Groaner Foul: whereby any player who speaks a pun bad enough to make the audience groan causing their team to lose one point (or awarding the other team with a point), unless their apology to the audience is heartfelt enough and accepted.
 * Example: Why does the Norwegian navy put barcodes on ships? So they can Scandenavian

 * Any spontaneously generated Foul the referee feels is needed to move the match forward.

Although the image of competition is maintained, the teams are often dynamic, with rosters depending on which player (many of whom have other occupations ) are available for a match at any given time, and match outcomes are not pre-determined as audience voting/selected judges decide the winner.

Organization
CSz Worldwide and ComedySportz are licensed by the World Comedy League Incorporated. There are over 28 cities with licensed ComedySportz organizations, most in the United States. In recent years, ComedySportz has been licensed in Manchester, England (although this team originated in Chorley, Lancashire) and Berlin, Germany.

Most ComedySportz cities operate their own "arenas," some with theatre type settings, others as nightclubs. Few (including ComedySportz Milwaukee) have their very own bar and restaurant. Sometimes the members of the comedic improv team also work sound and lights. The clean content and audience focused nature of the ComedySportz match allows CSz groups to perform thousands of road shows for corporate, college, church, school, and association clients each year; most CSz groups also lead corporate team-building workshops. In addition, players from some cities coach ComedySportz high school and middle school leagues, in which students perform in shows similar to those seen at the "professional" level.

World Championship
Teams meet annually at the ComedySportz World Championship for a competitive tournament, training, and exchange of artistic, marketing, and organizational ideas. The location of the tournament rotates among the member cities. The first world championship that Milwaukee won was in 1988. The banner hangs in the Milwaukee stadium. The first World Championship in Milwaukee's new arena was August 4–7, 2004, also served as the Grand Opening for Milwaukee's all-new ComedySportz Arena at 420 South 1st Street in Milwaukee. In 2009, the World Championship returned to Milwaukee for the 25th anniversary celebration, and returned again in 2014 to celebrate both its 30th anniversary and rebranding of the logo.

Prior to 2004, this mostly annual event was billed as the "ComedySportz National Tournament."

In 2020 and 2021 due to the COVID-19 Pandemic the championships were held online. Portland defeated Jersey Shore in the 2021 Championship match.

Championship history

 * {| class="wikitable" border="1"

! Year ! Host City ! World Champion
 * 2022
 * Seattle, Washington
 * Seattle
 * 2021
 * Online
 * Portland
 * 2020
 * Online
 * Houston
 * 2019
 * Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
 * Philadelphia
 * 2018
 * Los Angeles, California
 * Los Angeles
 * 2017
 * San Jose, California
 * San Jose
 * 2016
 * Indianapolis
 * Indianapolis
 * 2015
 * Quad Cities IA & IL
 * Quad Cities
 * 2014
 * Milwaukee
 * Milwaukee
 * 2013
 * Buffalo, New York
 * Buffalo
 * 2012
 * Chicago
 * Chicago
 * 2011
 * Indianapolis
 * Indianapolis
 * 2010
 * Philadelphia
 * Philadelphia
 * 2009
 * Milwaukee
 * DRAW - Milwaukee & Twin Cities
 * 2008
 * Portland, Oregon
 * Portland
 * 2007
 * Quad Cities, IA & IL
 * Quad Cities
 * 2006
 * San Jose, California
 * San Jose
 * 2005
 * Los Angeles
 * Los Angeles
 * 2004
 * Milwaukee
 * Minneapolis
 * 2003
 * Washington DC
 * Washington DC
 * 2002
 * Quad Cities, IA & IL
 * Quad Cities
 * 2001
 * Chicago
 * Chicago
 * 2000
 * Austin
 * Austin
 * 1999
 * Portland
 * Portland
 * 1998
 * Milwaukee
 * Milwaukee
 * }
 * 2003
 * Washington DC
 * Washington DC
 * 2002
 * Quad Cities, IA & IL
 * Quad Cities
 * 2001
 * Chicago
 * Chicago
 * 2000
 * Austin
 * Austin
 * 1999
 * Portland
 * Portland
 * 1998
 * Milwaukee
 * Milwaukee
 * }
 * Portland
 * 1998
 * Milwaukee
 * Milwaukee
 * }
 * }
 * }

Notable players and alumni

 * Steve Agee (The Sarah Silverman Program)
 * James Thomas Bailey (The Drew Carey Show)
 * Joe Bereta (YouTube personality, Barats and Bereta)
 * Wayne Brady (Whose Line Is It Anyway?, Let's Make A Deal)
 * Liz Cackowski (writer, Saturday Night Live, Last Man On Earth)
 * Frank Caeti (MADtv)
 * Kay Cannon (producer/writer, 30 Rock, New Girl, Pitch Perfect, Pitch Perfect 2, Pitch Perfect 3)
 * Jeremy Carter (Superego)
 * Bill Chott (actor, Wizards of Waverly Place, Galaxy Quest, The Dana Carvey Show)
 * Jeff Davis (Whose Line Is It Anyway?, Harmontown)
 * Jack DeSena (actor, All That, Avatar: The Last Airbender)
 * Matt Gourley (Superego, Drunk History, The Pistol Shrimps Radio, Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend)
 * Dan Harmon (Community, Rick and Morty, Harmontown)
 * Dustin Hodge (producer/writer, Little Britches Rodeo (TV series))
 * Derek Mears (actor, Friday the 13th)
 * Kevin Miller (voice actor) (Sly Cooper)
 * Eric Christian Olsen (actor, NCIS: Los Angeles, Community, Beerfest)
 * Jack Packard (RedLetterMedia contributor on Best Of The Worst)
 * Eric Price (MADtv)
 * Lauren Pritchard (MADtv)
 * Rob Schrab (Scud: The Disposable Assassin, The Sarah Silverman Program)
 * Iliza Shlesinger (stand-up comedian, winner of NBC's Last Comic Standing; numerous Netflix specials)
 * Matt Sloan (director, voice actor, playwright, and comedian)
 * Ari Stidham (actor, musician, Scorpion)
 * Jason Sudeikis (cast, Ted Lasso, Saturday Night Live, Horrible Bosses)
 * Nick Swardson (stand-up comedian, writer & producer, Reno 911!: Miami, Grown Ups 2)
 * Chris Tallman (Thank God You're Here, The Thundermans)
 * Victor Varnado (actor, comic book writer, End of Days)
 * Jessica Williams (correspondent on The Daily Show, actor in The Incredible Jessica James)
 * Colton Dunn (actor, writer, comic)

title: ComedySportz


text:
Talk:Crown (British coin)

Last crown
It says here that the last crown was in 1980. But I seem to have got one from 1981, with Charles & Di on. Presuming it IS a crown. Looks like one, but I'm no expert. -Nommo

 * Drat -- you're right, I overlooked that one and thought the Queen Mum's 80th birthday one was the last. Thanks for bringing it up -- Arwel 21:42 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Value?
I came looking for what a non-commemerative crown had been worth in L/s/d, and eventually found 5s after almost stopping reading, believing 5L would be the only value mentioned. Could someone who understands the chronology better than i fix the chronology better than i have? --Jerzy•t 17:27 & 17:38, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

I think a big part of the problem is that this was written as an article not on the currency as used, but as collected today. I doubt the topic is worth two articles, and if not, the one should serve both purposes; much stricter attention to chronology is probably the best aid to accomplishing that. --Jerzy•t 17:38, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BritishCrown.jpeg
Image:BritishCrown.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Done, by Arwel Parry. 1 June 2007

Queen's Remembrancer
Please see Talk:Queen's_Remembrancer. Perhaps someone here can clarify this problem. 90.245.25.126 (talk) 04:25, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Let's just take out the "value" tag completely
It is obvious no satisfactory common ground or compromise can be reached. I have tried very hard, but breakdowns in mutual understanding just mean there is no possible solution beyond omitting it. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 05:34, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Discussion centralised at talk:Pound sterling. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:03, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Weight
"Since the Great Recoinage of 1816, a crown has, as a general rule, had a diameter of 38.61 millimetres (1.520 in), and weighed 28.276 grams (defined as 10⁄11 troy ounce).[9][10]" How much did it weigh before? I was googling for that, for the weight in 1650. This is helpful for the value question. How much would that silver be worth at hte 2020 price of silver? editeur24 (talk) 13:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

 * While I do not have any pre-1662, hammered silver crowns at hand, I have just checked several milled ones dated from 1673/VICESIMO (Charles II second bust, SCBC 3357) to 1937 (George VI, SCBC 4078; last silver crown minted, even if only .500), all in VF+ to EF condition, and found all to be of similar shape, diameter and weight, viz. 1673: 37.4-37.8mm, 30.00g / 1819: 37.5mm, 28.16g / 1887: 38.3-38.6mm, 28.28g / 1937: 38.4-38.6mm / 28.32g (my last decimal digit always a bit dubious due to my limited equipment). At Sterling fineness (.925), used from the middle ages to 1919, 28.276g (10⁄11 troy ounce) equals 26.155g fine silver; at today's rate of USD 22.453 per fine oz silver, this amounts to USD 18.88; hope this helps. --HReuter (talk) 23:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Crown (British coin)


text:
Talk:Discus throw

Untitled
this is the most basic description of a discus throw. It is useful as an overview of what a discus throw is, but it does not berrrgin to cover half of the different motions a thrower must use to acheive maximum distance.

Who is Garth Allen? I googled his name and found no connection between a Garth Allen and a discus record. For now I have replaced Juergen Schults name (and in any case his name should have been conserved since its a table of record progressions). I must say that this editing of the record list seems to me intentionally misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.81.237.109 (talk) 11:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Recent Article Cleanup
I recently cleaned up the article. I placed Garth in the Top 10 above the World Record Progression list because he's good. I deleted the whole Best Year Performance list, the National Record list, and the European Record list. The BYP list only included women and frankly was not needed. The NR and ER list are both not needed because the Top 10 is the most important list for the article. The article should not be exhaustive in terms of giving every single good throw. The Top 10 list is a good keep and the WRP list helps show the growth of the discipline. I will probably be adding more material to the article (history, technique, etc) shortly. Baegis (talk) 07:10, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Origin
What is the origin of using a discus in ancient Greece? Was it originally a weapon, like the javelin? Badagnani (talk) 06:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC) - It is not widely known, but one theory is that it was used as a way for soldiers to measure coordination since it is the most demanding skill required for a long throw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.187.158.35 (talk) 20:07, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Olympic Competition ?
The author of this section of the article seems to be confused about what a World Record is. A performance can only be called a World Record if it complies with and is ratified as having complied with the rules stipulated by the body under whose aegis the sport is organised and the competition is held. For athletics (Track & Field) that body is the International Association of Athletic Federations (IAAF) which was founded in 1912. The first performance ratified by them as being a World Record for the discus was - as the table lower down on the page suggests - James Duncan's winning throw at Celtic Park, Long Island on the 27th May 1912. The Greek Panagiotis Paraskevopoulos was not a World Record holder and exceeding his performance make Bob Garrett a World Record holder for, among other reasons, the obvious fact that the 1896 Olympic discus was thrown from a square rather than from the stipulated 2.5 metre circle (which a reading of your own reference would have told you).

The whole section can therefore be deleted, since all it says is that only one World Record has been set in the Olympic games; a statement that could if required be easily incorporated into the text elsewhere.Cottonshirt (talk) 10:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Since no one has disagreed with my suggestion that this section should be deleted, I have now deleted it. Cottonshirt (talk) 14:54, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
I thought discus was spelt as discuss.--Launchballer (talk) 16:02, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Discuss = talk about something. Pronounced differently too (extended 's' sound at the end of the word compared to discus). --jjron (talk) 23:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Physique and training?
Article talks a lot about the motion of the throwing and the types of discuses. But does not share what sort of physique is beneficial for the sport. Or how athletes train. These are common sense general interest questions. Please do NOT erase this message without discussion. Also don't tell me to edit the page. I came here LOOKING for that info. Making a note that it is missing is a sound use of the talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.44.253 (talk) 02:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

broken image link
There is a broken link in the introduction with the text "/object/gallery_uk.asp?ObjId=64"

I looked around the web for the location of this file but could not find it. I guess that sentence should just be removed, unless someone can find where the original link points to. Phinnaeus • T+Σ 19:51, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Wrong Paul Jessup
The link for the discus thrower who set a record in 1930 goes to an author born in 1977157.182.105.1 (talk) 18:54, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's done. Thanx.Montell 74 (talk) 11:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Discus measurements
In the beginning of the "Description" section, both the weights and diameters of the discuses are given in meters, which is obviously wrong for both measurements. This appears to be the result of faulty conversion templates, but I am not sure how to fix it. Tad Lincoln (talk) 08:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * √ I think I've got it fixed now Trackinfo (talk) 09:55, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

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improvements

 * Is any information out of date? Is anything missing that could be added? The results of the 2016 olympics in rio have not yet been added, but the world leading marks of 2016 have. Also international age group rules, such as the under 18 and under 23 championships could be added, showing the difference between the US and international scenes for youth and junior athletes.
 * Is the article neutral? Are there any claims, or frames, that appear heavily biased toward a particular position? - There doesnt appear to be any bias, just the marks and the respective athletes who threw them. Discusandhammer (talk) 21:40, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

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ok vote for you the normal people ..........GOD WILL SHAKE WITH A GINATESQUE REMOU ........si tul c pas t pas admits sur la ptit v.d.MOTREAL........200hrs krzchris with THE TRUMP (REAL) ON his twitter i will be their with LE SAINT HOMME DU DIABLE.....see u t  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.0.19.217 (talk) 18:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Women first.
As the records demonstrate that women are clearly superior to men at discus, their section should be placed above the men and the article should use the female pronoun. Stub Mandrel (talk) 10:14, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Women use a lighter disc. The top throwing women are from East Germany, which was known for giving their atheletes steriods. The Men are superior. Carnival200 (talk) 03:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Discus throw


text:
Jakten på Odin

The Search for Odin (Norwegian: Jakten på Odin) is the project title of Thor Heyerdahl's last series of archaeological excavations, which took place in (Tanais) in Russia.

Theoretical background
Heyerdahl's intention was to prove the veracity of the account of Snorri Sturluson in the Ynglinga saga, written in the 13th century, about the origin of the Norse royal dynasties, and the pre-Christian Norse gods. Snorri provides a euhemeristic account, in which he describes the Norse god Odin and some other Norse gods, the Æsir, as having been real people who emigrated from the area around the river Don to Scandinavia at the time of the Roman expansion into their old homeland. In Scandinavia, Snorri writes, they so impressed the native population that they started worshipping them as gods.

Heyerdahl tried to seek the origins of the Æsir, following the route set out by Snorri Sturluson in the Ynglinga saga, from the Black Sea and the river Tanais (referred to by Snorri Sturluson by the names Tanaís and Tanakvísl ) via Saxon homelands in northern Germany, Odense on Fyn, Denmark to Old Sigtuna, ancient Sweden. When Heyerdahl died in 2002 the second season of excavations had just been finished.

Critique
Heyerdahl's Odin project was subjected to fierce criticism from Norwegian academics within the fields of research upon which the theory touches. Both the first book detailing the Odin project, Ingen grenser from 1999, and the second book, Jakten på Odin from 2001, were met with a forceful and detailed response from leading academics in which the reasons were laid out to the wider public as to why Heyerdahl's theory in their view was false. After the last book the attacks against Heyerdahl were also worded in a way that was seen by many as disrespectful. The five leading academics responsible for the reviews explained that although popular literature would not normally be subject to such scrutiny, they felt it was necessary in this case, partly because Heyerdahl himself laid claim to academic credentials and partly due to his popularity.

The reviewers, speaking on behalf of the academic community of Norway, categorize Heyerdahl's theory as an example of pseudoarchaeology, based on a selective reading of sources, and a lack of understanding, or a lack of willingness to use basic scientific methodology. Much of the foundation of his theory, they point out, is based on similarities between names of figures from Norse mythology and geographical place-names of the present time in the Pontic steppe and Caucasus. Comparison of these names is done with disregard of linguistic theory, according to the reviewers.

Azov is believed by Heyerdahl to have derived its name from as-hof – temple of the Æsir. Mainstream linguists and historians will say that the city of Azov got its name from the Turks, over 1000 years after Heyerdahl believes the Æsir lived there. Heyerdahl also points to the similarities between the word Æsir and the Azeri and Ossetian peoples of the Caucasus, between the god Odin and the Caucasian language group Udi and between the god Tyr and Turkey, and between the Vanir (a group of Norse gods) and the word Vannic, which was for a time in the 19th and 20th centuries the name used for the Urartian language, spoken in ancient times in the area around Lake Van.

title: Jakten på Odin


text:
Talk:Thomas Wolsey

Length
This article seems to me far too long. I think a previous editor has introduced a lot of their research on Wolsey, which would make a good essay but is too partisan for an encylopedia. There is a lot here which relates to Wolsey only indirectly. I have edited the first third, but still feel this section isn't neutral enough. I will continue to edit this.Boleyn (talk) 20:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is great to see you here. I just began an overhaul of this mess. I want to trim, add, and cite all the way to GA. Will join me? -- Secisek (talk) 21:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Definitely. You've done a great job on some of the other Tudor articles, there's no reason why this page can't get up to a good standard.Boleyn (talk) 22:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I've continued tinkering with this. Some sections are referenced well, but others desperately need backing up. There are still judgmental statements in here, but they are in line with historical opinion. Nevertheless, without referencing I don't think they could be said to be neutral.Does anyone have books on Wolsey and can add references? Does anyone think it is neutral enough yet?Boleyn (talk) 08:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Your recent work has reduced this factor, but there's a distinct feeling I get when reading this that someone came along and edited it based on the TV show "The Tudors". Just a feeling I get. SamBC(talk) 13:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Revisions May 2008
I have all my books on Wolsey out today and am editing the article. I hope other users think it improves it, my main aim is to cite the sources for the information. Where the information that was there conflicts with my sources and isn't referenced, I've deleted it - if you have a source and think anything I've taken out is valuable to the article, please add it back in. There are some statements which I believe to be historically accurate, but I can't find a reference for in my sources. I've left these in, but it would be helpful if anyone thinks they can back the statements up to add in a citation. Boleyn (talk) 08:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I've finished this article for the moment, and have taken the liberty of removing the request for further references - if you feel this needs to be put back in, then please do so. If there is anywhere else you think needs references, please flag this up and I will try to find them. Particularly with regards to his work on legal matters, I cannot back the information up, although it looks sound. I think it's now in a state where it can be easily edited.Boleyn (talk) 14:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

New rating!!!
So we've gone from start class to B class! That's great. The problem is trying to get it any higher. There are still a number of statements which I feel need a reference. If anyone has any books on Wolsey, please add some in. Otherwise large sections of writing that may be sound will have to be deleted. Boleyn (talk) 19:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Down to C - This was a very low end B at best. The new C is more realistic. -- Secisek (talk) 22:43, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Main legacy
"His main legacy is from his interest in architecture, in particular his old home of Hampton Court Palace, which stands today."

Errrr, really? If so, then the article should probably be reworked substantially, replacing English history with English architecture. At the very least, I would expect there to be a section, or even a few sentences somewhere, in which his architectural interests and legacy are mentioned.

Feel free to educate me. --GeePawHill (talk) 05:21, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Yeah, this is the first time I've read this article and that stuck out as a sore (and unreferenced) thumb - it's gone. HammerFilmFan (talk) 09:19, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The article needs to be a bit more critical of the Church of the time. While its senior clergy found high political office in most of Europe, these clergy remained loyal to Rome rather than their respective countries. The Church failed to accept the rise of countries as independent political entities, and saw Rome as the controller of the Empire. The Church also levied its own taxes on the population and so they built such extravagances as Hampton Court. Governments eventually saw the church as a power and appropriation competitor. (The killing of Beckett was the first Church-State argument in England.) The article adopts the sentiment that Hampton was 'stolen' from the Church, but it was all theft from the populace anyway. Meanwhile, monks were advocating simple lives to the populace based on prayer and the rejection of materialism, while getting at their kids!220.240.251.56 (talk) 22:22, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Wolsey's Gate
Right now this is mentioned only in the external links section. It really deserves a treatment in the article body. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 18:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Moved the annulment from 'downfall' to 'forein policy' - comments?
I moved the whole annulment business from 'downfall' to 'forein policy'. Do you think it's the right call? I'm not a 100% certain. On the one hand, the annulment process was a major international issue and it increasingly dominated Wolsey's own agenda; on the other hand, the downfall section now looks a bit patchy.

Bazuz (talk) 20:48, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Date of portrait
I changed the date of the portrait in the infobox to 1610, which is documented: I could add a reference if others think it's needed, but the date isn't controversial. Sampson was active in Oxford 1596-1610, died 1611, and this is one of his last works (he specialised in portraits of dead founders, like this one). And rew D alby 11:41, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

"Breach of celibacy laws"
I have removed two sentences reproaching to Wolsey the breach of celibacy laws of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). Wolsey didn't breach anything, since he was a Lay Cardinal, like many others in the history of RCC. These cardinals were given secular duties: mangement of finances of the Papal Court, diplomacy, support of different kings of Europe in their state administration duties. So, when you see movies depicting Catholic cardinals sunk in debauchery, that's in most cases a pure manipulation. Mazarin07 (talk) 20:29, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Earlier in the article it says: "On 10 March 1498, he was ordained a priest in Marlborough, Wiltshire and remained in Oxford, first as the Master of Magdalen College School before quickly being appointed the dean of divinity." which suggests he would not be a lay cardinal.

--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:02, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The Lay Cardinal article doesn't even support this claim. The name itself explains that one cannot be a priest and a "lay" cardinal.  The Lay Cardinal article says only those not in major orders--which would include the diaconate, priesthood, or episcopate--may be made Lay Cardinals.  If Wolsey was a priest, or even a deacon, he wasn't, by definition, a LAY cardinal.  And, in any event, it would be inappropriate to speak in terms of "dispensing" or "relieving" a lay cardinal from the celibacy requirement, since laymen are under no requirement of celibacy to begin with.  I think this whole section needs reworking.  If Wolsey was a cad, there's no use trying to squeeze him under some inapplicable rubric to make him seem less so.  The Catholic Church is under no guarantee that her members are impeccable.  38.104.61.22 (talk) 18:06, 17 November 2011 (UTC)jasoncpetty

I am removing the sentence "The edict that priests, regardless of their functions or the character of their work, should remain celibate had not been wholeheartedly accepted in England" as it is simply an opinion not backed up by any evidence whatsoever. John2o2o2o (talk) 23:12, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

"Naked to mine enemies"
Sounds like an editor was trying to be dramatic. It's a nice turn of phrase because the quote is actually from Shakespeare, Henry VIII, Act III, Scene ii. Oddly enough, if you follow the reference linking to d'Aubigné (page 515) it almost exactly quotes Cavendish, a first-hand witness: "if I had served God as diligently as I have done the king, he would not have given me over in my grey hairs." (d'Aubigné uses the word "served" again instead of "done".) We should switch to the Cavendish quote, but I wonder if we should also mention Shakespeare since that version is so well-known Ferguson even used it as the title of his book. (But his account inside the book properly quotes Cavendish.) Opusaug (talk) 02:05, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

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Artistic Patronage
Is this sentence really in the right place, right after the story of Wolseys tomb?

"Henry often receives credit for artistic patronage that properly belongs to Wolsey."

And if so (which I doubt) which artists for example? Right now this sentence is a little bit of a lose end. 178.24.154.192 (talk) 09:25, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

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Abuses in the Church?
I have added a "clarify" tag to the sentence at the start of the Church reforms section. It says, "Although it would be difficult to find a better example of abuses in the Church than the Cardinal himself...", but at that point there has not been any instance given of Wolsey abusing his authority in church matters, nor is there any mention of abuses in the "Downfall and death" section. In fact, the article refers to "his intelligence, administrative ability, industriousness, ambition for power, and rapport with the King", none of which qualifies as abuse. Some concrete examples of abuse should be found, or the content should be removed. 2001:BB6:4713:4858:2494:B3C5:1B29:F896 (talk) 16:08, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

As of February 2020, this section has been retitled "Failures with the Church." I would like to suggest that we include the following points:

- What would have been acceptable behavior in continental Europe was not acceptable in England at the time.

- Laypeople did not appreciate the pluralism - that is, Wolsey holding so many clerical offices it was impossible for him to do all the jobs properly.

Thoughts welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AFineClaret (talk • contribs) 20:16, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

 * I believe since the behavior and pluralism issues were topics that were not specific to Wolsey perhaps brief mentions with links to articles about those topics would be better than whole detailed additions to the article. 3ez r4ay (talk) 00:04, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Domestic achievements -> Justice
"He also established the Court of Requests (although this court was only given this name later on)" He apparently didn't - he only settled it at Westminster. See Court of Requests -> "Under Thomas Wolsey the court became fixed in Westminster, hearing cases from poor people and from the servants of the king". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.59.5 (talk) 19:04, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thomas Wolsey


text:
Consuelo Vanderbilt

Consuelo Vanderbilt-Balsan (formerly Consuelo Spencer-Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough; born Consuelo Vanderbilt; 2 March 1877 – 6 December 1964) was an American socialite and member of the Vanderbilt family. Her first marriage to the 9th Duke of Marlborough has become a well-known example of the advantageous, but loveless marriages common during the Gilded Age. The Duke obtained a large dowry through the marriage and reportedly told her just after the wedding that he married her in order to "save Blenheim Palace", his ancestral home.

Although Consuelo was opposed to the marriage arranged by her mother, she became a popular and influential duchess. For much of their 25-year marriage, the Marlboroughs lived separately; after an official separation in 1906, the couple was divorced in 1921, followed by an annulment in 1926. Her first marriage produced two sons, John and Ivor. She went on to marry the wealthy French aviator Jacques Balsan and continued her charitable endeavours. Consuelo and Balsan lived in France prior to World War II, then moved to the United States. As stipulated in her will, she was buried near her younger son, Lord Ivor, at St Martin's Church, not far from Blenheim Palace.

Early life
Born in New York City, Consuelo was the only daughter and eldest child of William Kissam Vanderbilt, a New York railroad millionaire, and his first wife, Alva Erskine Smith, a Southern belle, budding suffragist, and daughter of Murray Forbes Smith. Consuelo's Spanish name was in honor of her godmother, Consuelo Yznaga, a half-Cuban, half-American socialite who had created a social stir in 1876 when she married the fortune-hunting George Montagu, Viscount Mandeville (later 8th Duke of Manchester), a union of Old World aristocracy and New World money.

Consuelo was largely dominated by her mother, who was determined that her daughter would make a great match like that of her famous namesake. In her autobiography, Consuelo described how she was required to wear a steel rod, which ran down her spine and fastened around her waist and over her shoulders, to improve her posture. She was educated entirely at home by governesses and tutors, and learned foreign languages at an early age. Her mother whipped her with a riding crop for minor infractions, and when, as a teenager, Consuelo objected to the clothing her mother had selected for her, Alva told her that "I do the thinking, you do as you are told". Like her godmother, Consuelo attracted numerous title-bearing suitors anxious to trade social position for cash. Her mother reportedly received at least five proposals for her hand. Consuelo was allowed to consider the proposal of just one of the men, Prince Francis Joseph of Battenberg, but she developed an instant aversion to him. None of the others, however, was good enough for Alva, herself the daughter of a cotton broker.

Consuelo was considered a great beauty, with a face compelling enough to cause the playwright Sir James Barrie, author of Peter Pan, to write, "I would stand all day in the street to see Consuelo Marlborough get into her carriage". Oxford undergraduate Guy Fortescue later described how he and his friends were captivated by her "piquante oval face perched upon a long slender neck, her enormous dark eyes fringed with curling lashes, her dimples, and her tiny teeth when she smiled". She came to embody the "slim, tight look" that was in vogue during the Edwardian era.

First marriage
Determined to secure the highest-ranking mate possible for her only daughter, a union that would emphasize the preeminence of the Vanderbilt family, Alva engineered a meeting between Consuelo and the indebted, titled Charles Spencer-Churchill, 9th Duke of Marlborough, chatelain of Blenheim Palace. The matchmaker was a minor American heiress turned major English hostess, Lady Paget, the wife of Sir Arthur Paget. Born as Mary "Minnie" Stevens, Lady Paget was the daughter of Marietta Reed Stevens, the socially ambitious widow of American hotel entrepreneur Paran Stevens, who had successfully obtained admittance to the exclusive New York society of the fabled "Four Hundred". Lady Paget, always short of money, soon became a sort of international marital agent, introducing eligible American heiresses to British noblemen.

Consuelo had no interest in the Duke, being secretly engaged to Winthrop Rutherfurd, an American socialite 15 years her senior. Her mother cajoled, wheedled, begged, and then, ultimately, ordered her daughter to marry the Duke. When Consuelo — a docile teenager whose only notable characteristic at the time was abject obedience to her fearsome mother — made plans to elope, she was locked in her room as Alva threatened to murder Rutherfurd. Still she refused. It was only when it was claimed that Alva's health was being seriously and irretrievably undermined by Consuelo's stubbornness, and she appeared to be at death's door, that the malleable girl acquiesced. Alva made an astonishing recovery from her supposed illness, and when the wedding took place, Consuelo stood at the altar reportedly weeping behind her veil. The Duke, for his part, allegedly gave up the woman he loved back in England and collected $2,500,000 ($91,600,000 in dollars) in railroad stock as a marriage settlement.

Consuelo married the 9th Duke of Marlborough at Saint Thomas Church, Manhattan, on 6 November 1895. They had two sons, John Albert Edward William Spencer-Churchill, Marquess of Blandford (later 10th Duke of Marlborough and a godson of the future King Edward VII) in 1897, and Lord Ivor Charles Spencer-Churchill in 1898.

The new Duchess was adored by the poor and less fortunate tenants on her husband's estate, whom she visited and to whom she provided assistance. She later became involved with other philanthropic projects and was particularly interested in those that affected mothers and children. She was also a social success with the royalty and aristocracy of Britain.

However, given the ill-fitting match between the Duke and his wife, it was only a matter of time before their relationship was in name only. A few years into their marriage, Consuelo reconnected with Winthrop Rutherfurd and went on to spend two weeks in Paris with him. Soon after, she confessed to her husband that she loved Rutherford and wished to elope with him (the Duke's second wife, Gladys, went on to imply that his and Consuelo's second son was actually Rutherfurd's). In 1900, with the Duke's reluctant permission, she went to London to discuss the elopement with Rutherfurd, only for him to refuse her. In despair, the Duke set off for South Africa, where his cousin, Winston Churchill, was serving in the Second Boer War. He was away for six months, returning in July 1900. Upon his return, Consuelo confessed to having an affair with his cousin, Reginald Fellowes. She may also have had an affair with the artist Paul César Helleu, who portrayed her several times in his sketches and pastel artwork. The artist's daughter believed that Helleu and Consuelo probably had an affair between 1900 and 1901, which continued after his return to Paris, where she visited him and sat for him again. By this time the Duke and Duchess had completely stopped being intimate, and soon the Duke fell for Gladys Deacon, an eccentric American of little money but, like Consuelo, dazzling to look at and of considerable intellect. After Consuelo's affair and planned elopement with the married Charles Vane-Tempest-Stewart, 7th Marquess of Londonderry, the Marlboroughs separated in 1906, divorced in 1921, and the marriage was annulled, at the Duke's request and with Consuelo's assent, on 19 August 1926. Though largely embarked upon as a way to facilitate the Anglican Duke's desire to convert to Roman Catholicism, the annulment, to the surprise of many, was also fully supported by Consuelo's mother, who testified that the Vanderbilt–Marlborough marriage had been an act of unmistakable coercion. "I forced my daughter to marry the Duke", Alva told an investigator, adding, "I have always had absolute power over my daughter". In later years, Consuelo and her mother enjoyed a closer, easier relationship.

Marriage settlement and personal fortune
As one of the wealthiest and most well-known "dollar princesses" of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the financial settlement at the center of the union of Consuelo Vanderbilt and the 9th Duke of Marlborough continues to attract commentary and reference more than a century after the wedding took place.

The marriage settlement provided for the Duke to receive a $2,500,000 trust that would pay $100,000 per year. Consuelo also received a further $100,000 per year. The combined annual income of $200,000 (£40,000) more than doubled the income the Duke had enjoyed from his estates prior to the marriage. Consuelo and the Duke also acquired several large gifts from her father, William K. Vanderbilt, including a palatial London townhouse and a reported sum of $1,000,000 in cash to mark the Duke's safe return from South Africa. Consequently, the total amount given to Consuelo, her first husband and children during her father's lifetime and in his will was at least $15,000,000 and possibly as high as $30,000,000.

The Duke received 50,000 shares of Beech Creek Railroad stock, valued at $2,500,000, which was to be placed in trust, with a guaranteed income of at least 4% ($100,000 or £20,000) per year to be paid to the Duke for his lifetime, and then to Consuelo if she survived him. Following the deaths of both Consuelo and the Duke, the income from the trust would be paid to the next Duke of Marlborough, provided that he was a descendant of the 9th Duke. In the event of Consuelo and the Duke not being survived by a son or male-line descendant, the trust would vest in their other descendants, which the Duke had the power to appoint by deed or will.
 * The Duke's trust

A 1944 court ruling in the Chancery Division of the English High Court of Justice held that death duties on this trust had become payable by Consuelo's son, the 10th Duke of Marlborough, upon the death of the 9th Duke of Marlborough in 1934, despite the fact that the income was still being paid to Consuelo for the remainder of her lifetime. The duties, with interest added for the period between the 9th Duke's death and 12 April 1946 were paid in 1946, and amounted to approximately £175,000. Part of the marriage settlement took the form of a covenant made by William K. Vanderbilt to pay Consuelo $100,000 annually for their joint lifetimes; this provided for the payment of $2,500,000 within a year of his death to Consuelo's trustees, with the income to be derived by her for the remainder of her lifetime. If she predeceased the 9th Duke, the income was to be paid to him for his life, and following both of their deaths, the trust would vest in the couple's children, unless Consuelo made an alternative appointment in her will.
 * Consuelo's trust

Following William K. Vanderbilt's death in 1920, the $2,500,000 were treated as a debt against his estate that was duly transferred to Consuelo's trustees.

In the early years of their marriage, it was rumoured that enquiries were made by Consuelo's father and husband as to whether the ancestral London townhouse of the Dukes of Marlborough, Marlborough House, could be recovered from the Crown Estate. Once it had become apparent that this could not be achieved, William K. Vanderbilt paid $380,000 for a parcel of land on Curzon Street where a large townhouse, Sunderland House (Earl of Sunderland, a subsidiary title of the Duke of Marlborough, was used as a courtesy by the 9th Duke before his grandfather's death and resulted in his nickname "Sunny"), was to be built for his daughter and son-in-law. A further $500,000 was reportedly spent on the construction, and more than $1,000,000 on fitting out and furnishing the new building. The total cost of the mansion was later reported as being in excess of $2,500,000.
 * Residence

Following the outbreak of World War I in 1914, Consuelo accepted the British Government's request to borrow the house for the use of the Interallied War Council. Sunderland House was sold by the Marlboroughs in 1919.

In the months prior to and following the death of Consuelo's father in August 1920, it was rumoured that he had gifted her $15,000,000. The speculation was serious enough to result in a representative of the New York State Tax Office being quote in The New York Times as stating that litigation could arise as to whether the gift would be subject to more than $500,000 in inheritance taxes.
 * Father's estate and inheritance

Besides the $2,500,000 that William K. Vanderbilt had pledged to transfer to Consuelo's trustees after his death and which formed part of her marriage settlement, his will provided for a further $2,500,000 to be placed in trust for Consuelo's benefit, with her brothers, William K. Vanderbilt, Jr. and Harold S. Vanderbilt, as trustees. Following her death, the principal of this additional $2,500,000 trust was to be paid to her children. Her two sons also received $1,000,000 each.

In addition, Consuelo benefited from $1,670,000 derived from a trust established by her grandfather, William H. Vanderbilt. Following his death in 1885, each of his eight children received a $5,000,000 trust from his estate. The Anderson and Anderson report in August 1920 noted that the will of William K. Vanderbilt did not make any provisions as to the distribution of this trust, and as a result the principal vested in equal shares between Consuelo and her two brothers.

Consuelo also received a reversionary interest in her father's French properties at 10 & 11 Rue Leroux, Paris and a château in Normandy, in which her stepmother had a life-interest.

Second marriage and later life
Consuelo's second wedding, on 4 July 1921, was to Lt. Col. Jacques Balsan, a record-breaking pioneer French balloon, aircraft, and hydroplane pilot who once worked with the Wright Brothers. Also a textile manufacturing heir, Balsan was the younger brother of Étienne Balsan, an early lover of Coco Chanel. Their marriage lasted until Balsan's death in 1956 at the age of 88.

After the end of her first marriage, Consuelo still maintained ties with favorite Churchill relatives, particularly Winston Churchill. He was a frequent visitor at her château in Saint-Georges-Motel, a small commune near Dreux about 50 miles from Paris, in the 1920s and 1930s.

Records in Florida show that in 1932 Consuelo built a house in Manalapan, just south of Palm Beach. The 26,000 square feet mansion was designed by Maurice Fatio and named "Casa Alva", in honor of her mother; the property was sold in 1957. Many believe that, in 1946, Churchill polished his famous Iron Curtain speech here, as he visited Consuelo on his way to Missouri to deliver the address at Westminster College.

As Consuelo Vanderbilt-Balsan, she published her insightful but not entirely candid autobiography, The Glitter and the Gold, in 1953. In spite of suggestions that it was ghostwritten by Stuart Preston, an American writer who was an art critic for The New York Times, Preston consistently denied that role while admitting to unspecified involvement with the book. A reviewer in The Times called it "an ideal epitaph of the age of elegance".

Consuelo died in Southampton, Long Island, New York, on 6 December 1964. She was buried near her younger son, Lord Ivor, in the churchyard at St Martin's Church, Bladon, Oxfordshire, not far from her former home, Blenheim Palace. Her estate was estimated to be not in excess of $2,000,000, with the majority of her income being derived from trusts which would devolve upon her sons after her death. The primary beneficiary of her personal estate, including her residence in Southampton and her jewels, was her eldest granddaughter, Lady Sarah.

Public service
During World War I, Consuelo worked as the chair of the Economic Relief Committee for the American Women's War Relief Fund.

During the interwar period, she and Winaretta Singer-Polignac (the Princess de Polignac and Singer Sewing Machine heiress) worked together in the construction of a 360-bed hospital destined to provide medical care to middle class workers. The result of this effort is the Foch Hospital, located in Suresnes, a suburb of Paris. The hospital also includes a school of nursing and is one of the top ranked hospitals in France, especially for renal transplants. It has remained true to its origins and stayed a private not-for-profit institution that still serves the Paris community. It is managed by the Fondation Médicale Franco-Américaine du Mont-Valérien, commonly known as Foch Foundation.

title: Consuelo Vanderbilt


text:
User talk:Dmsar

Welcome to the 'pedia, good to see you here. The tags become second-nature after a while; here's a handy cheat-sheet. - Hephaestos 21:24 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

(Oh and four tildes ~ will sign your name and the date.) Thanks.

Hi there. WRT your picture of the City Hall, it's a nice photograph but it's bigger than recommended. Whilst it's fine for most of us, some people are still on very slow dialup connections. If you want to have a larger image as well, that's fine, but just have a link to it on the page so that only people who specifically want the full-size one. See image use policy. --Robert Merkel 08:17 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Am working on getting it. And I am on a slow dialup modem myself.

Hi Dmsar, thanks for the Rose Garden article. I'm going to move it to Rose Garden Arena. I think the Rose Garden article itself should be a disambiguating article since there are other important Rose Gardens (e.g. the White House Rose Garden or the one in Portland's Washington Park). --Nate Silva 23:11 9 Jul 2003 (UTC) Thanks for the help. Hopefully I'm coming close to getting things right. I don't think I've really screwed anything up yet.

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia.

When you create a new page could you highlight the title word or title phrase at its first appearance, like this? Thanks. 131.183.73.174 23:44 9 Jul 2003 (UTC) Yep, I see what you mean. thanks.

I'll give Pacific Ten Conference a look. RickK 01:03 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Got help, thanks; he seldom stays long. - Hephaestos 21:29 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It's hard to really screw things up, so that's not really anything to worry about. :) When soda pop redirects you to soda water, you can click on the "redirected from" link to get to the redirect page, and then edit in the information for soda pop. (I agree they each rate their own article.) - Hephaestos 21:39 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * thanks Heph!

Well I screwed that one up, but see how easily fixable everything is! *grin* Sorry about that. - Hephaestos 22:10 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Problems on vending machine? ;) --Dante Alighieri 09:17 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I didn't think it was rude: people do it, it's publicly visible, it's worth talking about. YMMV.  Koyaanis Qatsi

You are right, but I'm relatively new, so I didn't want to step too heavily right away.Dmsar 22:29 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You've created an article at Bulletin Board. This is in the Wikipedia namespace, which meas it's for utility pages. There was an article for bulleten board already at Bulletin Board, which you have redirected. Why is this? Mintguy

 * Because there were two different articles using this meaning, and so I picked it to attempt to disambiguate so I'd get it right (hah) and it would be small and simple enough not to really gum things up. Dmsar 23:33 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Not wanting to be confrontational or anything, but you didn't answer Mintguy's actual question, and I for one am curious: why did you try to create the disambiguation page as "Wikipedia:Bulletin Board", and not plain "Bulletin Board"? —Paul A 01:59 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Answered on his page. And why? I was working out the kinks as I went along.  I would have

eventually figured out my mistakes. And if not, I would have screamed for help to fix my errors. Thanks for the fixing up. Dmsar 02:34 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi, I just want to encourage you to stay and keep contributing to Wikipedia. I think some of the long-time users get frustrated with newbies once in a while, but try not to take it to heart. It's almost impossible to permanently screw anything up here, so just go nuts and don't worry if you make mistakes at first. Everything eventually comes out in the wash, so to speak :-) -- Wapcaplet 01:47 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks Wapcaplet. The encouragement is welcome. Dmsar 01:54 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I'm sorry my actions caused you to get upset, that was not my intention. Just to clarify my position. Wikipedia namespace is for utility pages. You created Bulletin Board which I assumed was an attempt to start a bulletin board for Wikipedia. This was redundant as we already have Village Pump. I believe User:Jiang probably thought the same thing. This is why I made the comment - "What is this for?" on that page. I then realised that you were trying to create an article and decided to inform you that you were creating it in the Wikipedia namespace and not the main encyclopaedia namespace. The fact that you had redirected the encyclopaedia article to the Wikipedia namespace was baffling. I received what I believed to be a cryptic reply stating that you were disambiguating the page. This left me totally bemused as your actions in no way matched the act of disambiguation. This is why I restored the Bulletin Board article to the way it was before you redirected it. Mintguy 11:20 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

..Ah I see I wasn't clear in expressing. I was sort of hoping that how poorly I was doing it would ..ring a bell, since I was ovbiously messing up. I was prepared to sit there for as long as it ..took to realize how to do it and be proud of myself :) Dmsar 15:46 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, that was a download and fix, but I do those quite a bit (I have Photoshop open pretty much all the time; see Jumping spider for a super example). I left some tips on the talk page of Parking. - Hephaestos 03:20 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Cool, read them. thanks. If I leave all that stuff open (haven't figured the combination) my Windows crashes and I start with pushing the reset button. Dmsar 03:25 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hello again. Just a quick comment on your (otherwise excellent) images: you might consider adjusting the JPEG save parameters to decrease their file size a little - unless the image quality deteriorates unacceptably, of course. Most bitmap editors, including WinGimp, Photoshop, and Paintshop Pro, offer this adjustment. --Robert Merkel 04:30 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You're doing God's work fixing up IBM links, so I'm not going to complain! The TLA lists are a little special in that we can use them which TLAs exist and what they go to; a pipe link makes it hard to tell. Hmm, perhaps that should be mentioned on the list's talk page, eh? :-) Stan 21:50 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi, no there is no mass delete available. The server is also pretty responsive. If it would be choking I'd had stopped. -- JeLuF 10:54 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

OK maybe it was me being stupid again.. Dmsar 10:58 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi there. Please try use more descriptive names for images -- there is a risk something like Image:Wal.jpg could be accidentally overwritten. "Western Airlines jet" (for example) would be better. cheers - Tarquin 22:46, 11 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Nice photo illusrations at Supermarket! --Menchi 01:12, 18 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, Dmsar, but I'm removing the very blurry pic of the DC-10 on American Airlines and DC-10 articles. They make those two articles look a little amateur. Sorry I had to do this. Best Wishes, Adrian Pingstone 19:45, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

hi Dmsar, While I was looking for an image of Castilleja, I came across your image.

Did you take this photograph your self? And is it available under the GNU/FDL?

If the answer to both questions is yes, I'd like to use it on the dutch wiki. If the answer is no to one or both of them, I will have to look on.

t.i.a., TeunSpaans 21:37, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi DMsar, I'm from french wikipedia and we use the pic Image:Bing cherries.jpg so I'd like to know if it is GFDL ? Can you confirm/infirm ? Thanks in advance Tipiac 12:50, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hello DMsar, would you be so kind to specify a license with the images you upload? For instance: Image:Serverfarm.jpg. Thanks. -- Solitude 10:18, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for uploading Image:Ordetroitdamsign.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much,   – Quadell (talk) (help)   18:31, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

(Oh, and Image:Ordetroitlakemongold.jpg, Image:Oregon grape.jpg, Image:Asakusa street.jpg, and Image:Newspaper machine.jpg too.)

Hello Dmsar. Your picture Image:Mimosa 2.jpg looks interesting but is too small to show ?uch detail. Do you have a larger version of that picture? For botanical photos, it is nice to be able to see more detail in the flowers, leaves, fruit, etc. - Marshman 02:13, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And re GFDL and image tags and such things (skipping-CD-ing unfortunately) Image:BWVending.jpg also. Thanks! Schissel 01:30, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Image copywrite
Hi! Thanks for uploading Image:Oscilloscope.jpg, Image:Osakacastle.jpg, Image:Osakatower.jpg, Image:Orsistersdowntown1.jpg, Image:Orsistersdowntown2.jpg and Image:Orsutherlindowntown.jpg. I notice they currently don't have image copyright tags. Could you add one to let us know their copyright status? (You can use if you release them under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, Edwinstearns 15:44, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * And this one too Image:Vendingmahines sodaandsnax.jpg--nixie 07:47, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Unverified images
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:

 * Image:Indian_paintbrush.jpg

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License,  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 21:39, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Unverified Image
Hi! Thanks for uploading Image:Electric meter.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, or  if you mean to release the image into public domain.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thank you, Dsmdgold 02:10, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

Unverified images
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following images:

 * Image:Dill.jpg
 * Image:Detroitdam.jpg

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License,  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 04:01, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Parking garage.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Parking garage.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Right now, I'll put it as unverified, but change it to what it's supposed to be when you get a chance. Thanks, Mattingly23 16:14, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

P.S. Also Image:Candy vending machine.jpg. Thanks! – Quadell (talk) (help) 19:37, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Scotchbroom.jpg
marked, please update with correct copyright tag. Thank you, Duk 02:23, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image:Mcdonaldsinterior.jpg
What licence is Image:Mcdonaldsinterior.jpg which you uploaded (currently marked unverified) released under? Somebody in the WWW 23:53, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Same for Image:Marioncountycourthouse.jpg. ugen 64 22:27, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

And:
 * Image:Mcdonaldsdrivethru.jpg -- Kbh3rd 04:27, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Image:Mcdonaldsinterior.jpg
 * Image:Mcdonaldsdrivethrumenu.jpg

And Image:Schonchin.jpg --- thanks! hike395 04:43, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Warning - your images could be deleted.
You don't seem to be responsive to image copyright questions. If we can't determine the copyright statuses of your images, they will soon be deleted. They're good images, and we'd like to keep them around. Please let me know the source and copyright information for the images people have asked you about above. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 15:53, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

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Image:BWVending.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 00:13, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Image:C5aopenS.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:16, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Image:CaberS.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:40, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Cadorriscityhall.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:40, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Cadorrisflagpole.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:41, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Canbyscross.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:49, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Candy vending machine.jpg
Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:49, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

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Image Tagging Image:Jar of pickles.jpg
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Len Bounds
Len,

This is Norman Chen, your buddy at Arizona State University. Please contact me at normanchen@verizon.net. Remember, I went to Origen to visit you once before you got marry. I have been searching for you for years.

Norman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.73.100.254 (talk) 23:10, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Stronghold, California

The article Stronghold, California has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Despite all of the added stuff about politics and giving the zip code for Tulelake, California, the topos clearly label what this is: a railroad siding with a grain elevator."

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title: User talk:Dmsar