text:
Soul Music (novel)

Soul Music is a fantasy novel by British writer Terry Pratchett, the sixteenth book in the Discworld series, first published in 1994. Like many of Pratchett's novels it introduces an element of modern society into the magical and vaguely late medieval, early modern world of the Discworld, in this case Rock and Roll music and stardom, with near disastrous consequences. It also introduces Susan Sto Helit, daughter of Mort and Ysabell and granddaughter of Death.

Plot summary
A young harpist, Imp Y Celyn from Llamedos ("sod 'em all" spelled backwards, a reference to Dylan Thomas' Under Milk Wood), comes to Ankh-Morpork in hopes of becoming famous. Unable to afford the Musicians Guild fees, he and fellow unlicensed musicians Lias Bluestone (a troll percussionist) and Glod Glodsson (a dwarf hornblower) form "The Band with Rocks In", named after Lias' tuned rocks. When Imp's harp is destroyed, he acquires a guitar from a mysterious shop, unaware that it contains the awareness of a primordial music that was responsible for bringing the universe into existence. Imp takes the new name "Buddy" ("Imp Y Celyn" literally means "bud of holly"), and Lias starts calling himself "Cliff".

Meanwhile, Death is upset over the deaths of his adopted daughter Ysabell and her husband, his former apprentice Mort. Their daughter, Susan Sto Helit, was initially raised with an awareness of Death as her grandfather, but they later withheld the truth from her and she forgot about it. She attends boarding school in Quirm, and is content to avoid unpleasant conversations by using her unexplained ability to fade from others' awareness. When Death abandons his post for an impromptu sabbatical in an effort to forget the painful memories, the fabric of reality forces Susan to take on his duties and she begins to remember her past. She becomes aware of Buddy when he is scheduled to die in a riot while performing at the Mended Drum, but instead the crowd is overcome by the spirit of "Music with Rocks In", which apparently has no musical merit for objective listeners not themselves possessed by it. After this, Buddy's life is powered by the music instead of by his natural life force.

Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler becomes the Band's manager. He hires the troll Asphalt as a roadie to accompany the band on its tour as he books them to play to increasingly larger crowds, all the while keeping them unaware of the large profits he is earning. Buddy becomes less and less like himself, and barely seems aware of his surroundings when he is not playing the guitar. Susan tries to protect him from the influence of the music; though she does not acknowledge it, she has developed feelings for him. Meanwhile, the music is affecting many of the people who have heard it, causing them to form their own bands and adopt behaviours associated with the fans of various musical movements on 20th Century Earth. The wizards of Unseen University are particularly affected by this phenomenon, though not Archchancellor Ridcully, who uses the newly invented device Hex and works with Susan in an effort to understand these events. Mr Clete, the murderous secretary of the Musicians Guild, becomes increasingly unhinged by his inability to stop the Band's unauthorized activities (as they are protected by the music).

Buddy wants to perform a free concert at the music's behest, and Dibbler agrees after realizing how much of a profit he can earn through merchandising and concessions. A large number of the copycat bands participate in the largest concert of all time, culminating in the Band with Rocks In's performance. Buddy performs his own folk song on his harp, which Glod has had repaired, which briefly restores Imp's natural personality. Afterwards, the band flees from their crazed fans, pursued by the Musicians Guild, Dibbler, Susan, and Death (who has been brought back to his senses by his servant Albert). The music intends to create an immortal legend by crashing the band's coach into a gorge, with no survivors. Susan rescues them, but the music begins to alter the timeline so the band will have died. Death arrives and plays an "empty chord" on the guitar to stop the music, explaining that while he can stop it, only a musician like Buddy can restart it. The music agrees to allow Buddy to live in return for his playing a chord to restart it. Death then destroys the guitar.

A new timeline is created in which Clete was the only fatality, although Susan remains aware of the original course of events. She returns to school with a new self-assurance. The next day, she runs to reunite with Imp upon realizing that, in the new version of events, he came to Quirm instead of Ankh-Morpork and is working nearby.

Characters
The Band With Rocks In:

 * Imp y Celyn: Member (lead vocals & eclectric whatzit)
 * Glod Glodsson: Member (Horn)
 * Lias Bluestone: Member (Percussion)
 * The Librarian: Short-term member (Organ)
 * Asphalt: Roadie
 * CMOT Dibbler: Manager

The DEATH family and associates:
 * DEATH
 * Susan Sto-Helit: granddaughter
 * Mort: former apprentice
 * Ysabell: daughter
 * Binky: pale horse
 * DEATH of Rats
 * Albert: Butler
 * Quoth the Raven

Ankh-Morpork Musicians Guild:
 * Mr. Clete
 * Mr. Satchelmouth Lemon
 * Herbert Shuffle
 * Grisham Frord Close Harmony Singers

The Wizards:
 * ArchChancellor Mustrum Ridcully
 * The Librarian
 * The Dean
 * The Bursar
 * Lecturer in Recent Runes
 * Senior Wrangler
 * Chair of Indefinite Studies
 * Ponder Stibbons
 * Adrian Turnipseed

Appearance in other media
An animated adaptation was produced by Cosgrove Hall Films for Channel 4 in 1996. It takes the association of the "Band with Rocks In" with the Beatles even further than the book does, evolving their style from 1950s rock and early 1960s beat music (and mixing-bowl haircuts) in Ankh-Morpork, to acid rock in Scrote, to spiritual hippie rock in Quirm. In Sto Lat, they sound like the Jimi Hendrix Experience or Bad Company, but are dressed in clothes similar to the Beatles on the cover of the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album. Also in Quirm, Buddy says that the band is 'more popular than cheeses', referring to John Lennon's famous quote proclaiming the Beatles to be more popular than Jesus. In Pseudopolis, their outfits and style resemble the Blues Brothers. Crash's band is also given the name "Socks Pastels".

The soundtrack was released on CD, mp3 and streaming.

In August 2014, an adaptation was performed at the Rose Theatre, Kingston by Youth Music Theatre UK. The musical has been adapted by stand-up comedian Andrew Doyle with original music by Craig Adams. Soul Music will be directed by Luke Sheppard (associate director of Matilda the Musical and director of In the Heights) at the Southwark Playhouse and choreographed by Cressida Carré.

In February 2016, a stage adaption was performed at the Durham Student Theatre by Ooook! Productions. The production was adapted by Imogen Eddleston and directed by Mikey Bicarregui and Hamish Inglis.

title: Soul Music (novel)


text:
Talk:Chord progression

Untitled

 * see short discussion at Talk:Harmonic progression

Common chord
--->ALSO A certain chord can be present in several different scales

example C E G bB appears in the scales of                   CDEFGA Bb ( C mixolydian ) FGA Bb CDE ( F major ) GA Bb CDE F# ( G minor ) C Eb E F F# G Bb ( C blue scale ) etc ....

Therefore A chord is common to several tonalities

 * What you listed are scales. They consist of tones, not chords! And of course a certain tone can be present in several different scales, after all there are only 12 tones.

---> Especially modern jazz artists use these  "characteristics  " of chords by using chords progressions to create  a constantly  ongoing modulation ....

Theorists/ teachers (of this particular mode of playing ) include Nathan Davis Hal Singer

> Performers of these styles even fabricated so called  " synthetic " scales on several ( simple three chord ) progressions ( and a different one on "bridges" in anatole -pieces / ballad and tin -pan -alley material  ) Sonny Rollins is an outstanding " player " of these  linear approaches to motivistic and rapid scale- changing modes  of improvisation

 * Not only that, but some of these scales just don't seem to be correct. For instance, the G natural minor scale doesn't have an F# in it. Perhaps you meant the jazz melodic minor scale (or just an ascending melodic minor scale)? Also, it isn't clear which blues scale you're using–major or minor. The major one is C, D, Eb, E, G, A. The minor one is C, Eb, F, F#, G, Bb. NeutralWikipedia (talk) 19:12, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Lede is impossible
I know a little music, but the opening of this article is more difficult for me to figure out than a Wikipedia article in, say French, on a very advanced mathematical concept. I know articles should be correct, but when the opening sentence is full of links to words that are very difficult for outsiders to grasp, an affective barrier is erected. The opening article about something so basic should be understandable to a literature adult not versed in the specialty. This is not by any means. I came here because I was having trouble understanding what 50s progressions are, but now I'm much deeper in the dark, with what I thought was a rough idea of what a chord progression totally washed away by the opening paragraph.211.225.33.104 (talk) 13:50, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Misc
In the table, there under major IV, one of the progressions starts with a VI, I think this is a mistake, all the others start with the same as the title of the row but I don't feel as if I know enough to change it!

Under "Rewrite Rules," the link to "well-formed" doesn't go anywhere useful. I'm not sure what exactly it should link to. Maybe something should be added to the disambiguation page? Foxmulder 18:10, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Same goes for "cyclic." Also changed the VI to a IV; I assume that was a typo. Foxmulder 18:40, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Does "(assuming 12ET)" mean "assuming 12 equal tones?" This seems very unclear, why would it be written like that? BunDonkey 02:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite rules
The rewrite rules are quite unclear in the examples.

What does this mean: 1       2        3 4  5          6       7 8   9         10      11 12 bVi, bIII/bVII, IV/I/I//bVI, bIII/bVII, IV/I/I//bVI, bIII/bVII, IV/I/I// I'm not sure what the slashes represent? 203.219.137.66 02:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I added an explination. How's it look now? Hyacinth 07:12, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Looks really good. I'm a beginner and it makes sense to me now. Initially I guessed the '/' were representing 'play chord again' or 'or play this chord' Thanks! 203.213.7.132 21:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

General
I removed the italicized portion above as it is a reply and thus belongs on the talk page and the preceding material already reads "generally". Hyacinth 10:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "In music of the common practice period, generally only certain chord progressions are used. Many of the other unused progressions are not traditionally considered tonal. It should be noted, however, that in most styles of music, chord progressions are resultant from voice leading patterns; thus the preceding observations are merely generalizations."

Retrogression

 * A chord progression in its most basic definition, stands as an antonym for retrogression.

I removed the above as its unexplained and there is no article on retrogression. Hyacinth 06:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Chords often relate to each other in some phenomenological, tonally-coherent way—though this may not always be the case, especially when discussing more complex tonal music after 1840.

I don't know what "phenomenological, tonally-coherent way" means. Hyacinth 07:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Confusion
I find this page confusing. Granted though, I am a novice in music theory.

I understand the notation used for the most part, but I am confused by the notation "ii6°".

The "ii" should indicate a supertonic root with a note a minor third above this. This makes sense. However, the "6" indicates a note a sixth above the root, while the "°" should indicate a diminished quality.

Does this indicate:
 * 1) a diminished 5th *and* a 6th
 * 2) only a diminished 5th
 * 3) only a 6th (if this is figured bass notation)

In semitones, these possibilities would be:
 * 1) 3-3-3
 * 2) 3-3
 * 3) 3-6

In the key of A minor (harmonic), the notes for each possibility would be
 * 1) B-D-F-G#
 * 2) B-D-F
 * 3) B-D-G#.

If I were to name these, I would call these

 * 1) ii°7
 * 2) ii°
 * 3) ii6

So, what is the correct interpretation? --70.226.193.242 11:10, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The notation ii refers to the pitch classes in the chord, in this case, B-D-F. The ° refers to the chord's diminished quality. The 6 refers to its inversion (see Inversion (music)), which means that this ii chord contains a 6th above the bass instead of a 5th, which is the case in first inversion (second inversion includes also a 4th instead of a 3rd, so is called 6/4). So, the first inversion of B-D-F is D-F-B. - Rainwarrior 17:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the quick reply. From Chord (music): Roman numerals indicate the root of the chord as a scale degree within a particular key .... From Inversion (music): In this system, inversions are indicated by a digit or digits written below a given bass note. My confusion was due to thinking that the root had to be the same as the bass in this context in order to work as a figured bass. It appears that this notation could be called figured Roman http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chord_symbol&oldid=43624551. The portion of the Chord symbol article discussing this was lost when that article was merged into Chord (music). Obviously, your interpretation is completely correct, and makes a lot of sense. However, it still raises some questions for me:

 * What does the footnote in the table refer to? It seems to be talking about this, but the places where the asterisks are have no figured notation.
 * Could not all chords be inverted as seen fit? It would make sense that this was done more commonly for certain chords, however the table as it is now seems to imply that there were only certain valid transitions, including particular inversions.
 * Why was all mention of figured Roman removed? Strictly, Roman notation cannot be used with figured bass as it is described, since Roman describes the root and not the bass.

 * It seems to me that there is room for improvement in these articles. Does it make sense to discuss chords in the table without inversion, and then have an addendum discussing common inversions, and other additional details? Also, does it make sense to attempt to organize the discussion of figured notation somehow? I am not quite sure how to best do this, as figured notation is discussed in (at least) Chord (music), Inversion (music), and Figured bass --70.226.207.179 04:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

 * In answer to your questions:
 * Umm, it looks like the footnote appears to be trying to explain how to build the particular chord. Do you take notes from the harmonic or melodic minor, and if melodic, which version do you use? In common practice music, there is a particular version that is used much more often than the others for each of these possibilities, so that's why the footnote is there, I suppose.
 * No, the inversions aren't arbitrary. The table itself doesn't explain why those particular inversions are used, however. The reason comes from the practice of counterpoint. There are certain ways to write chord progressions smoothly, and if you take a study of counterpoint in classical music you'll find that in most progressions one particular form is extremely dominant. (For instance, try to find a 6/4 chord that's not part of I 6/4 - V - I.)
 * I expect mention of "figured Roman" was removed because it is not a very widely used term. I've never heard anyone use it before. I've actually never heard a name for the use of roman numerals with figures (other than the ambiguous "chord symbols", or banal "roman numeral analysis"), but often the figures themselves are refered to as the "inversion" (e.g. "the 6/4 inversion").
 * As for improvement of the article, I would say that this article is pretty bad. I've only come to it recently, and haven't taken any time to work on it yet, but offhand I'd say that we should leave the inversions in the table, but it is very worth discussing the meaning of those inversions (which would be a good place to explain the inversion notation briefly as well). Also, the "rewrite rules" section is badly notated, and I'm not certain it belongs in this article at all (is it referred to anywhere but in that one book?). - Rainwarrior 05:28, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, looking at the table, I'm not sure the inversions used are the correct ones (but I still stand by my general statements before about there usually being one form for a progression, even if the table doesn't show the correct ones at the moment). I'll have to check over this later. - Rainwarrior 05:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

More confusion
I find it confusing, because it contains none of the information I am conversant with. Chord progressions are a series of whole numbers -- nothing else. They are not complicated with numeric names for chords. Rather, those progressions are 'given' names according to who discovered them or whatever culture uses them, but they are not complicated with the names we've given to the simplest ratios like three to two or four to three.

Let me give you an example. A series of four perfect fifths begins with the number eight. Why eight, because that's the lowest number that you can divide three times by two, so the whole series is 8,12,18,27. THAT is a chord progression: Nothing but a series of numbers. Give it a name, like one of the names given to a chord on the guitar if it plays big in someone's piece.

Let me show you how simple it can be to prove numeric names to be nonsense.
 * A perfect fifth is   2/3 (usually it's called the reciprocal, but think about it).
 * A perfect third is   4/3 (sometimes this is called a fourth, but that's new to me).
 * A perfect eleventh is 8/3

See the series? They're exactly an octave apart. The reference pitch is three, which is not practical, until I explain fundamental frequency to you.

But no relation is between the names for those ratios.

Number the names, not the other way around, then this article might become instructive. I also see the roman numerals in here, and that just extends my confusion. I grew up with Arabic numerals. Those are what i calculate with. So, perhaps I would be repeating myself if I asked you to define IV as (what?) 8:6:3:2 (a perfect third, a perfect eleventh, a three to one, a double octave, and an octave)? I don't even know how many notes are in this IV chord.

I don't hav a convenient tool for this analysis, but write a chordhere, and I can probably figure it out. If you're not conversant with constructed languages, then you can fax me. BrewJay 21:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

 * It's usual in Wikipedia to post below the other comments in the section. Thus I moved yours here to avoid confusion.

 * Methinks you have done too much physics (or possibly guitar playing) and not enough music theory. I'm by no means a theory expert (I still don't know what the flat symbols on this page represent), but I can see a lot of problems with your argument.

 * Your statement that "8,12,18,27" is a chord progression is amusing, and shows that you have missed the entire point of the page. Let me carefully explain.  Start by imagining a series of 8 boxes (the white piano keys make an admirable set to imagine, if you can play the piano).  Now, imagine that these boxes represent the notes in the C major scale.  Sometimes there will be an interval of a whole tone between two boxes (eg. C and D).  Other times it will be a semitone (eg. E and F).

 * Now, having imagined that, imagine that there is a roman numeral written under each box, ie. I II III IV V VI VII. You'll notice that I stopped at VII.  Please grey out the eighth box in your mind.

 * Now, suddenly imagine that the boxes are empty. The way it works is, if you fill in those boxes with any major scale (just put the notes in in order), the numerals still refer to the same boxes.  So "I" always refers to whichever major key you're in (C, in our original case), and VI always refers to whichever minor key you're in (if you put C in the I box, then the VI box will contain an A).  There's no VIII, because that is exactly the same as I.  It doesn't matter where on the keyboard/guitar you're playing it, or which inversion you're using (or, in guitar terms, what the base note is), it's still a I chord.  Hopefully you're starting to see why your references to "8,12,18,27" are irrelevant.  It's like claiming that GH is a hexadecimal number.  I presume you're using them to refer to frequency multipliers.

 * Now hopefully you can understand a little of what the roman numerals refer to. But there's more!  Imagine that you tried to build a major or minor chord based on each of the notes in the little white boxes.  So on the C, you would build a C major chord.  But on the D, you would have to build a D minor, because you have an F, but no F#.

 * Now let me address your final point -- that of Roman numerals. Using roman numerals for chord progressions has been done from the time of the Baroque era until now, and the theory books I looked at in the 1990s continued to use them.  As well as being accepted practice, there's a reason for it, and that is that music uses Arabic numerals for other purposes, and using roman numerals makes it easier to distinguish between chord progressions and eg. fingering indications.

 * I can also understand your confusion in claiming that a perfect fifth is 2/3. The problem is that you're using the wrong reference point.  A perfect fifth is indeed 2/3 of the way between a note and the note an octave up.  But the people who refer to 3/2 are using pitch multiplication.  So if we start at eg. 440Hz (the A below middle C), then multiply that by 3/2, we get 660, which is the next E up.  But if you multiply by 2/3, you get 293, which is the D below, or a 4th down.

 * If you're interested in further reading, I'd recommend
 * Equal temperament (to help you understand that, you need to know that 12-TET means 12-tone eqaul-tempered scale).
 * Chord_(music) (and the rest of the page, but especially the scale degree section)

 * If there's anything that's still unclear, feel free to address it below my comments.

 * -- TimNelson 01:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

 * You seem to be bent on trying to immerse me in the difference between logarithmic and scalar mathematics. You do addition and subtraction. I do multiplication. You suit the third grade. I suit fifth graders who might know the sieve of erastosthenes, or the numbers that are rarely on their multiplication tables (because you strike them out the second time they occur). My rebuttal is an offer. You propose a triad. I'll reduce it to a simple fraction. Maybe I can do it with four-part harmony, too, but more than likely I'll need context. Maybe I'll even figure out how to write it into score that isn't mechanical. Here's why: progression is a synonym for series, and I hav a fourth part to go with three other parts that I really want to calculate (if I ever get the three parts working nicely by ear). BrewJay 04:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Hmm. I'm trying to figure out a way to cast some light on the disjunction between our mental maps of the situation.  Maybe I'd better check that we're using the basic assumptions.  My assumptions are:
 * A chord is a set of notes played at the same time but different pitches. The notes in the chord may be part of the same harmonic series, or not.
 * A chord progression is a series of _chords_ played one after another, at different times.

Chords to Series by example.

 * I agree that any differences between a "series" and a "progression" are irrelevant here -- both are essentially an ordered set. But I have a lurking suspicion that you're referring to a set of either notes or intervals represented along the axis of pitch/frequency/whatever, whereas I (and the Chord Progression page) are referring to a set of chords along the axis of time.  But I could be wrong here -- if so, let me know.

 * I'm having serious trouble understanding how the letters relate to musical ratios,

but we are talking about the same thing: How to describe a polyphonic trend. BrewJay 16:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I believe you when you say you can reduce chords to numbers, but until I understand what the numbers mean, I guess I can't see the point. But I'll suggest two triads, and see what you get from them -- that may help to cast some light on the situation.
 * Triad X: C E G
 * Triad Y: D F# A
 * You start "A series of four perfect fifths...". This may be the point where our thinking departs.  A perfect fifth is not a chord, but an interval.
 * -- TimNelson 06:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I prefer "ratio" to "interval". "Interval" might be a more physically correct description of equal temperament, but harmony deals with whole numbered ratios. If it's more than two notes in parallel, then it's a chord. As I recall, you didn't understand how 3/2 could be the same as 2/3. In series, this is understandable. In parallel though,

you might be pressing C and G, simultaneously. So, again, I see a series in the dominant ratios, but I see no series in their names:

2/3 Perfect fifth. 4/3 Perfect fourth. 8/3 Perfect eleventh.

 * Incidentally, you finished your first comment with "If you're not conversant with constructed languages, then you can fax me." I'm not sure what relevance this has to the conversation (I have a basic familiarity with conlangs, but can't see how it relates).
 * -- TimNelson 06:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

 * musixtex is a constructed language. I now realize that conlang normally represents natural languages.

A chord is an interval (synonymous with ratio in music) with more than two notes in it. In Triad X, above, C and G are at the ratio 3/2, and according to whatever temperament MicroSoft used for QBasic in 1992, E is the mean. To check this I audited it. My default C is at 1050Hertz. My default G is at 1575 Hz, and E is at 1312.5.

What lies between three and two is, in relative terms, a mean: 2.5. 1575 is to 3 (G) as 1312.5 is to 2.5 (E) as 1050 is to 2 (C), but the harmonic series is composed entirely of whole-numbered ratios, so the trick is a minimal increase of the ratio. Doubling them all eliminates that pesky fraction.

In practical terms, I could assume a basis (fundamental) frequency of 525 Hz and program with six, five, and four as notes if my work had only three notes in it.

C E G is equivalent to 4:5:6 (It doesn't reduce or simplify. Dividing four by five by six is meaningless in this context). So, with MusixTeX I mean to put yellow numbers on top of blue notes.

It should be possible to find a series of notes that represents that same three-numbered ratio, but is a transposition from one key to another. Perhaps this is what is meant by minor and major. A minor shift in chord would not change the ratios.

For triad Y, I'm assuming that you are rising in pitch. It is also 4:5:6.

The sheer number of notes in a full-length composition might force some of these notes upward to maintain the relation, much as considering a work with both chords in it would, but in practice, I see a typical limit to this upward drift, and I speculate that it's less than a hundred.

Maintaining the relation seems to be the sensible way to go. Then, later in the work, I will compare transpositions -- same chord in a different key, like this: 6 12 36 5 10 30 4 8 24

It can be done in a serial work, too. A basis frequency could be provided for an alternative method of rendition. It also forms a basis for analysis in combinatorics or non-linear dynamics. I've heard that some music has been condensed into nifty little loops that predict most of the notes. Mathematicians that didn't think they could write music could go: "Oh, so that's how this stuff works. I see this pattern."

Sometimes it seems like the obfuscation starts with letters and continues with names for ratios that bear no obvious relation to those ratios. OTOH, many musicians might travel down dead ends if they even wrote their music. BrewJay 16:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Harmonic/Melodic Minor Scales
What about #vii° in harmonic scales? Would someone add or authorize me to add the chords in the other minor modes? Hangfromthefloor 01:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia authorises you. WP:BOLD -- TimNelson 03:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

More about understandable musicology

 * Tables are good, I think. I'd like some of those chords spelt out on a staff, but I don't know that I wouldn't be asking for a scale commonly known to music students. I hav no *good* works in parallel harmony of my own to illustrate how yellow Arabic numbers printed on blue quarter notes are easier to understand, so I will (Eventually. I hav many pots on my stove.) apply what I know to someone else's work. It seems like this would be drowned! If I were a music teacher, I'd be doing a few examples, handing this out as assignment along with tables of just intonation (perhaps even different works to each student for the sake of security) and hiding the fully-specified answers.

 * I see that more art is in this than some people might want, and that no table lists all of the ratios one might want to use. I touched up an old tune with notes that are on the harmonic series, but not on western scales and instruments. The harmony doesn't work, anymore, so I want to giv the whole thing an arrangment that isn't written -- not an exercise with a short time limit. I should start from scratch and resist tweaking the piece, but fun is in tweaking the piece. It's not how much you write. It's how much you chuck.

BrewJay 15:37, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Sources for common progressions
It is unclear to me where the chart of common transitions came from, does anybody know? I would like to find that source. I did not see it in the links, I'm in the process of hunting down the books now.

→The chart is extremely similar to the progression chart in Ottman's Elementary Harmony. It actually looks like a direct copy of the chart and the text wasn't credited.

 * Please sign your posts on talk pages per Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 15:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I removed the unreferenced information from the section. Hyacinth (talk) 04:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Why? While it may not have been linked to, that information was invaluable to me while it was up here. I verified through writing and listening that those chord progressions are what they said they were. 70.122.48.172 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Unattributed "quotes" are Copyvio. However, I probably should have tagged the section as in need of referencing. Hyacinth (talk) 03:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Explanation of notation
The table on this page says "See the article chord (music) and chord symbol for an explanation of the notation used in this table." Obviously this was written before the two articles were merged together.

Somewhere along the way it seems that the description of this notation was lost, because I can't find any explanation of the difference between uppercase and lowercase Roman numerals (e.g., III and iii). Could someone explain what these mean, either here or in the Chord (music) page? -- Sakurambo 22:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Uppercase would be major, lowercase would be minor. Hyacinth 10:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Ah yes. I should have read the Chord article a bit more closely. Thanks :-) -- Sakurambo 21:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I can't see any explanation of what the flats are, though. -- TimNelson 03:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

 * An explaination of the flat signs can be seen on the "Borrowed chord" article,there should be a link to it on the chord article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinylmesh (talk • contribs) 21:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Reference to blues-modal harmony should be a direct quote.
Dear Wikipedia,

I welcome, on this page, the reference to my original work on the analysis of 20th century harmony as noted in www.harmony.org.uk

However, the section (as indicated below) is a direct quote from my copyright work (apart from a short incorrect insertion) and should be indicated as such. I am happy for you to quote this section but I would appreciate it if you would please amend this to indicate that it is a quote. i.e as follows:

According to Tom Sutcliffe (2006: www.harmony.org.uk )

“… during the 1960's some pop groups started to experiment with modal chord progressions as an alternative way of harmonising blues melodies. . . . This created a new system of harmony that has influenced subsequent popular music.”

“The use of modal harmonies to harmonise the blues came about because of the similarity of the blues scale to modal scales. . . by experimentation with the possible uses of major chords on the guitar. This phenomenon thus probably derives from the characteristics of the guitar and the way it is used in popular music. This is also linked to the rise in the use of power chords.”

If you want to mention modal chords correctly, and make the point clearer, then it would be a good idea to add something like:

Sutcliffe’s hypothesis is that major chord combinations such as: I, bIII , IV, V and bVII cannot be explained in pure modal terms as, in this combination, these don’t exist in the usual modes. They have to be explained as a new harmonic system combining elements from the blues and elements from modality.

Also, under “external links” please note: “it's origins” should be corrected to “its origins”

Regards,

Tom Sutcliffe.

August 2007

 * Many thanks for this. The passage was a) useful, and b) inserted by an anonymous user who has no Wikipedia account.  I've turned the section we were still using into a quote, with some credits.  Many thanks for your understanding in this, and your willingness for us to quote you.
 * -- TimNelson 10:08, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

"Common Progressions" section is a complete and utter mess
10 reasons why this section is a mess:

1. Some of these progressions only have one (obscure) example — so who on earth decided that they are 'common'? Surely the rule should be that if you can't think of at least 3 mainstream examples then it's not 'common' and shouldn't be on the list?

2. In contrast, some of the progressions have dozens of examples. I've nothing against this (as it helps people to find a song they recognise), but the stark contrast in number of examples seems ridiculous.

3. The examples seem very biased towards certain groups or styles of music. There's a "Green Day" example for almost every progression. More variety and balance would be nice.

4. The list only seems to feature slightly less common chord progressions that appear in a handful of songs; and doesn't seem to include the really common ones made out of the primary chords. For example (off the top of my head): I-IV-I-V ("American Pie"), I-IV-V-V ("Twist & Shout"), I-IV-V-IV ("Louie Louie", "Summer Nights") and so on. You could have a whole section dedicated to these alone.

5. The whole section is just silly — there are far too many "common progressions" to list in one short summary. Almost every short chord progression has inevitably been re-used over and over by someone somewhere. I don't think it's right that people just come along and add the one that belongs to their favourite song, which is what seems to be happening. The progressions on this page are not representative of the most common ones at all. And if all the often-used progressions are to be listed, they should probably be in some kind of order, not just random.

6. Some of the progressions are three chords long. That can't be right. Three bar sequences are extremely rare in pop music. More likely that one of the chords is repeated, but that really needs to be specified (as has been with certain ones)

7. There are no 8-chord sequences. I can think of at least one really famous 8-chord progression.

8. All the 'flat' chords show up as question marks on my computer. For the sake of making sure everyone can see it, wouldn't it be much easier just to use sharp symbols (#) instead? I believe this is the traditional method of writing notes using plain text on a computer.

9. The order of some of the chords is wrong. For example, with the one labeled "I - ♭VII-IV" — all the example songs given actually seem to use the sequence "bVII-IV-I-I". In other words, the tonic is not at the start of the sequence; it's at the end, and it's repeated. (The progression that was given is actually that of "Ghostbusters" and "Don't Leave Me This Way".)

10. Not all the examples listed use the exact basic chords specified. I think you'll probably find 7ths and suspended 4ths all over the place. For example, the last chord in "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" is (if I recall) a suspended 4th.

Grand Dizzy (talk) 00:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

 * See: Be bold. Hyacinth (talk) 23:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Also When people complain rather than edit. Hyacinth (talk) 23:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

But indeed, if they are so common, which most of them are, and notable it should be easy to cite a source saying so. Hyacinth (talk) 10:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd be happy to go around making drastic changes to pages, but, in my experience, if you do that, someone usually comes along and undoes your changes and people get annoyed that you didn't discuss it first. Therefore, I am now in the habit of declaring what I think needs to change about a page before I make the changes (if I'm proposing something drastic). Then, if no one has voiced strong objections to my proposals after a few days or weeks, I will make the changes myself. This article is one I will be coming back to soon, however, I have been very busy changing other pages so it's not like I've nothing better to do right now. I have also spent the last several days having a very good think about common progressions, and better ways to organise the information in this article, which I shall be encorporating into the article, assuming no one has any objection. Grand Dizzy (talk) 00:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I see someone deleted all the examples. Was there a reason for this? should they be brought back in? I don't mind leaving them out to be honest.

Also I specifically gave the progressions i wrote up only 1 or 2 examples (i made them as well-known as i could) as i thought this was sufficient. When other people started adding to the lists i didn't delete them.However, I think a huge long list is unneccesary (sp). and it clutters up the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinylmesh (talk • contribs) 13:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Common chord progression clean-up!
OK. So it needs to be done.

I propose seperating them out into major, minor, blues-modal, mixed, and other.

possibly with major/ minor as the one category.

I'll need some help with this.

feedback welcome. Vinylmesh (talk) 14:09, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

by the way, that source is not valid for what WAS up there (as a lot was left pretty much as i had written it (with some extra songs added on)unless by pure co-incidence the list in the book is exactly how i wrote it. So i don't see a problem with editing the list. We could bring back in the whole give examples thing, and link each to a guitar chord site.But keep the examples to a minimum.

Another idea would be to provide audio-samples of each progression. I was thinking something very basic, just straight chords on a piano or something.I don't have the equipment + technical know-how, but I'm sure someone here does.

Vinylmesh (talk) 15:09, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Good idea to classify them. I believe the corresponding template (Chord progressions) might benefit from a similar classification. What source are you using for the classification? (I see Ottoman is cited, but that was there before your changes.)
 * The examples were removed as unsourced. Such lists tend to grow ad infinitum, so it would be better to cite some references that give specific examples (fake books?) or create a separate article that is a stand-alone list. --Jtir (talk) 21:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

"Pachelbel progression"
Hello, there's a bit of talk about the I V vi iii IV I IV V progression in the Pachelbel's Canon article. The editors there have been trying to keep this section brief so that the article can focus on the piece itself and not all the pieces that share its chord progression. I've come here wondering if this progression is common enough to deserve mention in this article. Is the progression in a family of progressions that already has its own child article? Or perhaps is the progression itself so common that the "Pachelbel chord progression" deserves its own child article? I don't have any idea myself which is why I'm asking here. I'm just wondering if it would be possible to redirect the chord progression discussion to this area of music theory articles where the editors have more specific expertise. Thanks. DavidRF (talk) 18:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus for move. – Juliancolton  | Talk 01:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Chord progression → Harmonic progression — I'm just wondering why this article is titled "Chord Progression" rather than "Harmonic Progression". In all of the music theory books and articles I've read, the idea is always referred to as Harmonic Progression. The term has definitely been around for a lot longer, and I would argue that people only started referring to it as "Chord Progression" once the guitar became so prominent (just a theory). Any thoughts on the subject? Rheostatik (talk) 18:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but it's not a proper noun so "progression" should not be capitalized. Recury (talk) 20:13, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks for the tip Rheostatik (talk) 21:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

 * WP:UCN covers situations like this. Use what is most commonly used in the references that the article cites, and use the more modern version if one exists (There's a guideline about that as well, that Wikipedia is supposed to remain as current as possible). — V = I * R  (talk) 02:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose. I've heard both, though in my experience "chord progression" is more common. That's in the jazz world, in classical circles it might be the other way around. The ever-mistrusted WP:GOOGLE supports "chord progression". Google Books is just about fifty-fifty, as is Scholar search. Barring evidence to the contrary, I'd prefer the status quo. Jafeluv (talk) 19:52, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Naming_conventions. Hyacinth (talk) 21:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Deleting half of the Talk page
I don't know how it happened, but there is a major flaw in this discussion page. Everything up until the section Reference to blues-modal harmony should be a direct quote. seems to have been duplicated, leading to eleven topics that appear twice. I am deleting the first instance. Rheostatik (talk) 16:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

This article is a mess
This article is a complete mess, and am tagging it for a complete rewrite, with aid from the Music Theory WikiProject (hopefully). At the very least, it should contain a discussion of the functions of each chord, I through VII to give these roman numerals a bit more context to someone not familiar with the subject. Kostka & Payne's Tonal Harmony: With an Introduction to Twentieth-Century Music is the standard-issue textbook given to many Undergraduate music students and will be a great resource for this page. I will begin writing up something and post it here in a few days. Rheostatik (talk) 17:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

 * How is this article a mess?
 * Why should this article discuss functions, shouldn't that be at diatonic function?
 * Hyacinth (talk) 02:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a mess in many ways. It comes across as having no structure whatsoever, just a list of a few chord progressions without any discussion as to how, or more importantly, WHY they work.  I'm in the process of adding a lot to it, using 2 theory-oriented sources I find to be very easy to understand
 * I should have been more clear, my apologies. By "functions" I meant it should discuss the function of each chord in the overall progression.  For example, a ii chord being oft-substituted for IV, vii for V, etc. I'm fiddling with some ideas on my userpage, hoping to have something substantial by this weekend. Rheostatik (talk) 03:30, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

 * A large number of edits were made some time ago to the article, the editor unfortunately introducing own OR, rather badly expressed, apparently under the impression that this article was about scales and tonality, attributing the result to the authorities whose actual deliberations were deleted (Chadwick, Schoenberg, Macpherson, Kitson, all standard texts).

 * I am not surprised, Rheo, if you found the result incoherent, but your changes have not, in my opinion, greatly helped so far, partly because you have merely elaborated the above-mentioned material that has no direct bearing upon the subject rather than linking to the appropriate articles.

 * The article as it stood progressed from no chord changes to one, to two to three and more. It is a pity that you have destroyed that by relegating "one chord" music to the bottom. It is a pity that pics have been removed without valid reason. And remarks like this;

In Western music, diatonic scales such as the major and minor lend themselves particularly well to the construction of common chords such as triads

 * are, if you will forgive me, mistaken and obfuscatory. A scale lends itself to chord building no matter where you are in the world! It is another thing that only three areas of the world exploit this greatly (only one of which is "the west"). Thus your changes have further obscured carefully-stated first principles based upon a world-wide view of the subject which, granted, had been obscured before you arrived.

 * Note that the article began life as a "popular music" article and had to be given some technical rigour. But it is written exactly to help people who know some chords but not quite what they are doing. That is why I support the present common title "chord progression". Re "function", I believe that your example of "substitution" of minor for major and vice versa is properly covered in the article. I would add, finally, that the treatise on steps of the scale, with its individualistic symbol-system (not found in any of the above standard texts) has nothing to do with chords and is adequately covered elsewhere.

 * I'd like to suggest you start from the article as it was in early June and discuss here why things were put as they were, and whether changes are of genuine benefit. Redheylin (talk) 02:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I assume by "the editor" you mean Sluffs? Hyacinth (talk) 08:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I had planned on making some major updates, what I added was only a small portion. Unfortunately I got held up this past weekend so I couldn't make any changes. The little bit I did add, it was just a re-worded version of the "The Basics" section, which I found very confusing.  I'll leave the page alone, and when I have time, I'll update my userpage and link it here before making any changes.

 * Also, that picture I removed...do you find it really contributes to the article? Rheostatik (talk) 13:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I do not think the article is perfect - for a start it has nothing to say about complex chords, modulation and chromaticism and it could do with more citations. Rheo's sources sound useful - there are very few discussions of chord sequences per se in classical treatises of harmony, since these historically begin with point-for-point harmonisation of melodies and basslines using ensembles of monophonic instruments or voices. The original source for the article seems to have been an academic treatment of popular music (which is fine by me).

I do think it is important to preserve a sequence of complexity and to avoid recapitulation of related articles where possible. For example, I would not find it clever to deal with modulation at the very top, before simple diatonic changes have been covered, and I do not see any need to explain and use the terms "tonic, supertonic" etc in the present context. However, things can be presented in a variety of ways and any decent new presentation is going to take any editor some days of hard work, so I'd suggest it would be better to discuss the principles of exposition here before anyone launches into a rewrite that is liable to be rewritten yet again by the next person with the next set of personal theories. If there's a caucus of consensus that we have a useful, comprehensible sequential introduction, not a display of an editor's great cleverness, then we can avoid endless re-invention of the wheel.

I'd like to focus on the article, Hyacinth, not the editors, except to say that your own volume of work on the subject commands considerable respect over here and that I'd see the audio resources you added as a useful addition. I hope you'll all forgive that recent drastic edit of mine but perceive that there is, after all, a form and sequence in the article as it now stands, and that it avoids unnecessary complexity. Rheo, I do think it is useful to include simple diagrams that increase the reader's musical literacy, and that pictures contribute to an attractive page. I think your plan is a good one - it's a big job when you get down to it! Redheylin (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Instead of vaguely not talking about editors you could talk specifically about edits and edit dates, which would be helpful because then we would know what changes you are referring to. Hyacinth (talk) 21:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Intro
A chord progression (or harmonic progression) is a series of musical chords, or chord changes that "aims for a definite goal" of establishing (or contradicting) a tonality founded on a key, root or tonic chord.

Chord progressions are used to create movement within a piece of music, offering a shift of level or simultaneity succession essential to harmony. Music is not a static art form like sculpture; it exists within a time frame and people respond to this psychologically by their need for a start and end with a central tonality. Music creates this expectation regardless whether it is a melody line or a chord progression. Chord changes generally occur on an accented beat and by doing so creates a sense of rhythm, meter and musical form for a piece of music, while also delineating bars, phrases and sections.

Nomenclature
In music theory, scale degrees are typically represented with Arabic numerals, often modified with a caret or circumflex ( $$\hat 1, \hat 3, \hat 5$$ would be the notes C, E and G in the key of C), whereas the triads that have these degrees as their roots are often identified by Roman numerals. Upper-case Roman numerals indicate major triads while lower-case Roman numerals indicate minor triads, as the following chart illustrates. Lower-case Roman numerals with a degree symbol indicate diminished triads. For example, in the major mode, the triad built on the seventh scale degree ( $$\hat 7$$) is diminished (vii°).

Triads may be constructed using any degree of a scale as the root, and diatonic triads consist only of notes belonging to the scale. That is, if a passage is in G major, most of the chords contain only notes found in the G major scale. Subsequently, a chord's function changes according to the scale from which it is derived. A "D minor" chord will be the tonic chord ( i ) when built from the scale of D minor. It will be the super-tonic chord ( ii ) if it is derived from the scale of C major, or the sub-mediant ( vi ) chord if derived from the scale of F major.

This also means that a D minor chord does not appear at all in some keys, such as A Major, due to the presence of an F# in the key signature. This can be rectified by temporarily lowering the sixth scale degree ( $$\hat 6$$) from F# to F♮, resulting in a minor subdominant chord ( iv ) in a major scale, which, depending on the overall chord progression, can be considered aesthetically pleasing (see altered chord).

(I deleted a section of my paste as it remains in place at present Redheylin (talk) 02:13, 21 August 2009 (UTC))

Here are some of the current aims under which I am editing:

1) Logical progress from simple to complex.

2) Maximum wikilinking to music theory articles

3) Finding a place for and linking every progression notable enough to have its own entry.

4) Provision of the best-known examples of the best-known types of progression, with historical context.

5) Worldwide coverage.

I do not intend, though, to create a massive list of example pieces, find a place for everybody's favourite composer or cover every chord progression. The article is simply to explain what chord changes ARE, (and possibly, as Rheo says, how they work) by focussing on well-known, notable examples that mostly, as I said, have their own entries. All comments welcome.... Redheylin (talk) 02:13, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:BOLD is your friend here. I agree with your aims, and if anyone doesn't, they will simply edit the page to fix any perceived shortcomings.  I do want to know why the expert-subject template is in the talk section.  If you really need an expert, please place that at the top of the main article, not on the talk page. Cheers! Joshua Scott (talk) 07:36, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Chord progression looks like an appropriate section for the content removed above under. Hyacinth (talk) 06:02, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Felicitous?
Sorry, my edit summary got cut off, leaving it perhaps confusing. Widespread though it is, I think calling circle progressions "felicitous" implies a judgment call rooted in a particular (Western/Classical) approach to harmony. /ninly(talk) 14:13, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

 * What is wrong with that? Hyacinth (talk) 05:35, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I hope you both realize that the judgment in question is positive since felicitous means "very well suited or expressed" or "pleasant, delightful" . Hyacinth (talk) 05:38, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That seems to be precisely the alleged problem, that I-IV-V is felicitous only within a small circle of friends, and may sound odd to others. Diversity, world music, bla bla bla. Sorry guys, as fond as I am of modal aural traditions and Near- or Mid-Eastern microtonal schemes, I believe that in an English-language encyclopedia, acknowledging the major influence of a "Western/Classical approach to harmony" is no transgression.
 * It may be useful to find some notable composers or theorists singing the praises of good old I-IV-V. For starters, in the words of Harlan Howard, "three chords and the truth" make a great country song. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 12:27, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing wrong with acknowledging the major influences/themes (it's essential to do so), but there's nothing wrong either with recognizing and locating the assumptions behind certain terms and revising for a more accurate presentation (this is part of Wikipedia's neutral point of view). Yes, as you suggest, there are vast bodies of highly developed music that have little or nothing to do with any of the West's harmonic sophistication. Yes, felicitous involves a judgment that may not be shared by those differently trained ears, and I find that significant. Perhaps more to the point, though: There are also plenty of established progressions, rooted in the circle of fifths, that sound anything but happy or delightful to seasoned Western listeners. It is simply a mischaracterization, I feel, of what makes circle progressions important or interesting. What we're really talking about, I'd guess, is the perception harmonic resolution in those progressions, and most importantly their capacity to evoke whatever emotion a composer/songwriter/performer cares to impart (felicity, whimsy, monotony, despair...). /ninly(talk) 06:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I used the word "felicitous", not in any way to extol the virtues of common-practice western music above other forms but simply to indicate the vast amount of successful music that has been built upon "circle" type progressions. Though I am not going to cavil at its removal, the idea that the word in any way suggests that such progressions are superior, say, to those based upon linear progressions is, to my mind, absurd. There is no "assumption" but simply a statement that this type of progression has been found extremely fruitful and popular, which barely requires further evidence than is given. The term certainly does not imply that all music based on such progressions is "happy" in mood: that is the most tortuous of misreadings. One might as well say that all articles on harmony should be deleted as they give undue weight to music that contains chords! Ninly has said that such progressions are, rather, "important" or "interesting" - in what was is this NOT a value judgment? It is precisely the extreme flexibility of the type and its capacity to reflect a wide range of moods that makes it "felicitous" (prosperous, delightful or APPROPRIATE (Chambers)) as a technique. Cyclical and linear progressions are especially "appropriate" or "well suited" to classical music since it would be more or less impossible to construct the development section of a conventional sonata, symphony or concerto without one - they are the very stuff of modulatory form. Ninly may believe that the existence of such music has made nobody happy, but he is out of line with the weight of opinion! Redheylin (talk) 22:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

 * "That seems to be precisely the alleged problem, that I-IV-V is felicitous only within a small circle of friends, and may sound odd to others." - A review of the other two musical traditions that use harmony - the Oceanian and the Bantu - shows an even more extreme reliance on this type of progression than is found in Europe and America. It should also be noted that the article goes out of its way to acknowledge that much music contains no chord changes at all. Redheylin (talk) 23:11, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Satie's First Gymnopédie in I - IV?
Hi, it's my first time entering a conversation I hope i'm doing nothing the wrong way. I just want to point out the fact that Satie's first gymnopédie is qualified as a " I - IV", but my understanding is that it's a I - V(7M). In fact the chords goes that way : G7M / D 7M. D is the five of G, not the 4. Correct me if i'm wrong.

88.175.101.80 (talk) 22:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

 * This is actually a really good (but slightly old) question, seeing as both chords are major 7ths! You see, Gymnopédie is not in the key of G, but in the key of D, seeing as there's a C# that's not present in the key of G. The D major scale has C# and F#, whilst the key of G only has F#. Because there is a C# present (and definitely an F#), we can infer that the key is D major. Thus, seeing as G is the IV of D, it seems the progression was written as "I-IV". It should have been written as IV-I, as a result of the chord progression being Gmaj7 to Dmaj7. Perhaps it was a simple mistake? NeutralWikipedia (talk) 03:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Formal name and origin of progression I - I - I - V / V - V - V - I / I - I - I7 - IV / IV - I - V - I ?
I've been trying to find formal discussion of the following chord progression: Examples include:

I'd appreciate any information about the following: In addition to posting your response here, please post a copy on my talk page. Thanks!
 * "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" from Mary Poppins
 * "The Cover of the Rolling Stone" (verses)
 * "Let's Talk Dirty In Hawaiian"
 * "I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman" (uses substitute chord vi in measure 4 of line 2)
 * Whether this progression has a specific name, either technical (cf. "pazzamezzo antico/moderno", "romanesca") or popular (cf. "Gregory Walker", "sensitive female", "Rhythm changes", " '50s progression")
 * The identity, time, and geographic origin of its earliest attested uses: Although its simplicity and popularity suggest that it originated long before it was written down, I'd still be interested to know what incarnation was the first that someone thought important enough to set down in writing.

 * -- Antediluvian67 (talk) 21:30, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

 * (Cc.: Talk:Harmonic_progression)

Cleanup
Why and where does this article need to be cleaned up? How should it be cleaned up? Hyacinth (talk) 10:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where to begin, I'm a musician with knowledge in this and this article makes almost no sense. Seems to be just a general smashup of facts and opinions without any organization. I would almost say scrap it and start over but that'd be even more work. DavidHamlin Talk|Contribs 03:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

 * The "{original research|date=November 2012} and {example farm|date=February 2013}" maintenance template messages have been at the top of this article for several years. Are they ready to come down or does the article need more editing first? --Gerntrash (talk) 02:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

 * OK, if there are no further comments, I will go ahead and remove the maintenance templates. Gerntrash (talk) 15:11, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Removed: tablature
The above text was removed with the assertion that it is not true. Hyacinth (talk) 20:30, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Chord tablature for chord-playing instruments such as keyboard and guitar by and by gave way to fully notated parts.

Most Basic Chord Progressions
What is the Chord progression for the classic maritime folk melody (aka "sea shanty") - "Drunken Sailor"?

Some say ii-I-ii-I-ii, others i-VII-i-VII-i....

However can it not be (or most often ) played as a "skiffle" - ii-I (repeated)??

Pete318 (talk) 14:24, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 * The melody resolves on the higher of the two chords, indicating that the higher would be the tonic ("Ear-lie in the" = VII; "mornin'" = i), so as between the two alternatives that you've listed, i-VII-i-VII-i is better.
 * Bear in mind, though, that the melody itself is in medieval/modern (i.e., non-[ancient Greek]) Dorian mode – hence " A↑ B♮ ↑ C♮ ↑ D" for the third line's "drunken sailor"/"up he rises"/etc. if the song is centered on D – so while i-VII-i-VII-i is a correct description of the chords being used, one can't assume from the tonic chord's minor status that the song is in a minor key.
 * Antediluvian67 (talk) 22:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry
To see that this article has been so damaged. The idea is to explain stuff, not to show how complicated you can talk. Redheylin (talk) 16:00, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Claims without explanation amount to empty criticism. This page is for discussing how to improve the article, not bashing it without justifying your comments or suggesting improvements. Hyacinth (talk) 04:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Fair enough, Hyacinth! But the improvements I'd suggest would amount to a roll-back. I think removal of examples has been ill-advised in this case, since it may take several examples for a novice to identify simple progressions regardless of key and rhythm. And I think there's been a tendency to abandon progress from simplicity to complexity at the expense of clarity, and graphics are breaking style guidelines - too many of them!. Redheylin (talk) 06:15, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

"Spatio-temporal Harmony"?
This is presumably some kind of philosophical concept that has no place in a straightforward article on basic chord sequences. Suggest it's deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.55.46 (talk) 21:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Odd statements in the lede
The second paragraph of the lede of this article includes extremely odd statements:
 * • "A chord progression can be thought of as an harmonic simultaneity succession: it offers an ongoing shift of level that is essential to many musical traditions."

This version (the single contribution of an unindentified wikipedian) is from 3 January 2014; it simplified another version, mainly replacing "the music of Europe (at least since 1600), Oceania and South/West Africa" by "many musical traditions".

The article Simultaneity (music) explains that "simultaneity succession is a more general term than chord progression or harmonic progression: most chord progressions or harmonic progressions are then simultaneity successions, though not all simultaneity successions are harmonic progressions and not all simultaneities are chords." In view of this, "harmonic simultaneity succession" appears to mean "chord succession", and the mention of a "simultaneity succession" here merely makes things more complex than necessary.

The mention of "an ongoing shift of level" apparently results from some misunderstanding. The article Level (music) is rather unclear (to me at least, but I am only a professional music theorist), but it does not seem to describe chord progressions.

And the idea that chord progressions could be "essential to many musical traditions" is incredible! I would have thought that chord progressions were essential to musical traditions making use of chords, and that there weren't that many that do so...

 * • "A change of chord, or "chord change", generally occurs on an accented beat, so that chord progressions may contribute significantly to the rhythm, meter and musical form of a piece, delineating bars, phrases and sections." [This is followed by a reference to Stewart MacPherson, Musical Form, Chapter 1, Joseph Williams, London, 1930.]

(This statement was added by User:Redheylin in April 2009.)

So far as I know, there is no book by S. MacPherson under this title. What is meant may be his Form in Music, but Chapter 1 of that book never says that changes of chord "generally occur on an accented beat", which would be nonsense. So far as I can tell, the book never mentions the expression "accented beat", but my OCR may have failed.

I intend to merely delete this paragraph very soon, but I did not want to do so without letting those who know better give their opinion.

— Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 16:17, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Chord progression


text:
Cynology

Cynology (rarely kynology, ) is the study of matters related to canines or domestic dogs. In English, it is a term sometimes used to denote a serious zoological approach to the study of dogs as well as by writers on canine subjects, dog breeders, trainers and enthusiasts who study the dog informally.

Etymology
Cynology is a classical compound word (from Greek κύων, kyōn, κυνός, kynos, 'dog'; and -λογία, -logia) referring to the study of dogs. The word is not found in major English dictionaries and it is not a recognized study in English-speaking countries. Similar words are in other languages, such German and Dutch Kynologie. κυν is also the source of the English word cynic, and is directly related to canine and hound.

Usage in English
The suffix '-logy' in English words refers to a study, or an academic discipline, or field of scientific study. English classical compound words of this type may confer an impression of scientific rigor on a non-scientific occupation or profession.

Usage in English of the word cynology is rare, and occasionally found in the names of dog training academies, with cynologist sometimes being used as a title by some dog trainers or handlers. People who informally study the dog may refer to themselves as 'cynologists' to imply serious study or scientific work.

The very rare term cynologist in English is generally found to refer to "canine specialists" such as; certified care professionals, certified show judges, breeders, breed enthusiasts, certified dog-trainers and professional dog-handlers.

Usage in other languages
Cynology may have other connotations or uses in languages other than English; see German Kynologie, Dutch Kynologie and Czech Sportovní kynologie.

 * A similar word is used to refer to dog handlers and dog trainers in Russia.
 * A veterinary clinic in Armenia offers a 'cynologist' to assist with dog training.
 * A magazine in the Baltic states described as 'dedicated to the development of cynology in the Baltic countries' covers dog training, dog shows, and veterinary advice (a hobbyist magazine, not a scientific journal.)

title: Cynology


text:
Director-General of the BBC

The director-general of the British Broadcasting Corporation is chief executive and (from 1994) editor-in-chief of the BBC.

The post-holder was formerly appointed by the Board of Governors of the BBC (for the period 1927 to 2007) and then the BBC Trust (from 2007 to 2017). Since 2017 the director-general has been appointed by the BBC Board.

To date, 17 individuals have been appointed director-general, plus an additional two who were appointed in an acting capacity only. The current director-general is Tim Davie, who succeeded Tony Hall on 1 September 2020.

List of directors-general
Italics indicate that the individual was temporarily appointed as acting director-general.

title: Director-General of the BBC


text:
Talk:Politics of India/Archive 1

(untitled)
User:Koyaanis_Qatsi - The bulk of the prose in this article appears to be copied from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/intro.htm which is copyrighted material. Do you have permission to copy? technopilgrim 22:47 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Both our copy and theirs are copied from the CIA World Factbook The factbook is a public domain resource.

That is public domain text copie from APPENDIX C: INDIA COUNTRY PROFILE in http://www.nwc.navy.mil/WARDEPT/sapp_rpt.doc. Only the changes to the public domain text can be copyrighted. I'll add a reference to this article to give proper credit. --mav 22:53 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * The bulk of that material is copied from the CIA World Factbook, which is in the public domain. Much of the rest is from the U.S. Department of State pages, which are also in the public domain.   Koyaanis Qatsi 22:56 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

thanks for checking & adding CIA links... now I can sleep at night technopilgrim 23:18 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I didn't have to check, I'm the one who added the stuff. ^_^  Anyway, there are many many more that I failed to cite; we had a plan to take care of it but it's been derailed at some point.  We should go ahead with it, I think.  Koyaanis Qatsi

This page has unnecessary information like country code, parties of India, etc in the middle. The parties of India has already as separate page List of political parties in India And, so I wish such unnecessary info should be removed for clarity. Rrjanbiah 05:37, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * I agree with your comment. This is wikipedia. Improve the article by editing what you think should be removed.  Just make a note on this page of what you have done and why.  Tiles 05:53, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

This link, Questions Left & Answers Right - Article has very specific information on the Indian state of Kerela and does not add to the main Politics of India page. - Vohiyaar 07:14, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * That link does not leave any referrence at all to Kerala. --Soman 10:52, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Corruption

 * While, being an Indian, I love the picture that this article attempts to present, but frankly, there is absolutely no discussion of corruption. Yes, it mentions corrupt juries but it doesn't stop there. In India, nothing gets done without a greased palm. My father is flying there this week for a family wedding (we live in the US) and he had to have a family member who lives in India bribe a member of of the Indian government to get his bloody visa! Furthermore the Prime Minister and President of India are always out to line their pockets etc. I'd love to make some addendums to the article myself, but I really don't have enough detailed knowledge. I'm a science geek, and I'm actually kind of disappointed that the article on India that is featured today didn't mention corruption at all. EagleFalconn 15:50, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Its wrong to say - "Furthermore the Prime Minister and President of India are !! always !! out to line their pockets etc". It depends on the individual in question. And corruption is usually higher in the lower ranks than at the top level leaders. Not that it is absent - but one cannot simply include all leaders into this category. And currently (2005), both our President (Mr. Abdul Kalam) and Prime Minister (Mr. Manmohan Singh) are excellent examples of how top level leaders are not corrupt. Please refrain from use of such sentences, when in a public domain such as this. [Pai] Aug 08 2005

What's the voting system for India?
The Indian election process and the Elections in India pages don't exactly tell me much, and neither does this one. What specific system do they use? First-past-the-post? Single non-transferable vote? And according to Elections in India, India has a two party system. Which ones? Congress and ____? --Bash 03:51, 15 August 2005 (UTC) Every Indian who is of 18 years or older has been conferred Right to Vote and take part in the elections and Formation of Government through his single Non-Transferable vote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.172.199.242 (talk) 06:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Legal System Writeup
The current write-up for the legal system of India is poorly written and takes a very odd approach to detailing it. While comparative jurisprudence is certainly a useful approach to this subject matter, I am puzzled as to the original contributor's tacit endorsement of torture as a 'cultural difference' of some sort -- rather, torture as a means of interrogation is not a priori accepted by all Indians, and certainly not Jains and many Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Parsis and Jews who follow the pacifist principles of the late M. K. Gandhi. Furthermore, many Indian Human Rights Organizations would firmly dispute the statement that "the dynamics of Indian society necessitate (sic) .. 'uncustomary' interrogation methods."

This is the first of many problems in this description of the Indian Justice System. For instance, the bizarre description of Indian prisons as 'not pampering' to prisoners is both unwarranted and out of place. Also, the contributor's opinion on whether the removal of juries from the legal system was a positive step or not has no place in this article. As such, my suggestions are the following: ''' 1) First, this current write-up needs to be deleted - it is amateur, patently inaccurate and ideologically driven. It has no place on Wikipedia (and neither does capitalization as in 'NO WAY' in the article).

2) This section needs its own page, and should NOT (pardon this capitalization -- this is the talk page!) be include in an otherwise decent section on the POLITICS of India. The Judiciary is after all (at least theoretically) supposed to be removed from political influences

3) Someone with greater knowledge on this subject (not I, and clearly not previous contributors) should be encouraged to contribute to a very important article. As a flourishing democracy, with a legal system that many have argued needs reformation (see Gay Rights in India)

4) I think this should stay separate from the Indian Penal Code article and rather, serve as a neutral appraisal of the system on its own merits and in relation to other legal systems in both developed and developing countries.'''

I have made a preliminary edit, retaining a few valuable facts from this write-up as a temporary measure.

--jackal1291, August 16, 2005

Criticism
The section titled "criticism" carries this line:

"According to Recent polls India is shown to be the second most corrupt nation, after Hong Kong."

Which polls? Is Hong Kong is the most corrupt nation? I am not convinced with this, and I think this might have been vandalism. I plan to remove that line, unless anyone objects. If you do object to the removal, please post references. --ashwatha 06:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I have removed that line, as well as some un-encyclopedic language. I hadn't logged in at the time, so the page history shows the changes as made by an anon. --ashwatha 06:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Criminal MPs
Hey brothers and sisters, i have created a page to inform us about Criminal MPs, including both criminal-turned-MPs and MP-turned-Criminals. Please contribute to the article. I have started it off by adding Sibu Soren, Phoolan Devi etc. Please add more. Thanx Tri400 16:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Structure of Indian Political System
For an article about the politics of India, this one focuses too heavily on the structure of the political system, where one might expect a discussion of actual politics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quantumelfmage (talk • contribs) 23:06, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * i would like to add another name " THAKRE FAMILY",. Cos what i think is we all r INDIANS but not the bloody MARATHA HINDU MUSLIM or CHRISTIANS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.48.17 (talk) 08:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Political Issues
The impact of diversity in India on politics, including division based on religion, region, language, caste needs to be discussed. It is the reason for the success of numerous communal, regional and casteist parties.

The classification of political parties, on the basis of their agenda, policies and focus, as national vs. regional, communal vs. secular, left-wing vs. right-wing, conservative vs. reformist will be useful.

Geeteshgadkari (talk) 07:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Important notice
The government section of the "Outline of India" needs to be checked, corrected, and completed -- especially the subsections for the government branches.

When the country outlines were created, temporary data (that matched most of the countries but not all) was used to speed up the process. Those countries for which the temporary data does not match must be replaced with the correct information.

Please check that this country's outline is not in error.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact The Transhumanist.

Thank you.

INC vs Congress ( I )
Is the Congress faction led by Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan singh officially called Congress (I) or Indian National Congress ? If latter, then when did the electtoral commission approve the "name change" Jonathansammy (talk) 20:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Doctors of an Autonomous body under the MoH &F.W Govt. of India are deprived for more than 25 years without promotion or DACP
We, the Indian always respect Indian politics, but some times we are very confused with the politics and buraucratic system. Some homeopathic doctors are working in National Institute of Homoeopathy, kolkata for more than 25 years even some of them retired from service.They are working as Medical Officers and Assistant research officers. There is no promotional avenue as well as they are not getting DACP which is recommended by 5th and 6th Central pay Commission.This is an autonomous organisation under the department of AYUSH, Ministry of Health and F.W, Govt. of India.Union Health Minister is the president of Governing body of this Institute.Doctors are applied several times for their promotion or DACP but everything went in vain.There were changed in the ministry time to time with their secretaries and Joint Secretaries but everybody verbaly assured it not to implement it.In the meantime some senior doctors are retired from service. So it is regrate to say that one employee was joined in a post and retired from the same post with same pay scale without poromotion or Dynamic ACP(as recommended by 5th & 6th CPC)after long period of sincere service. Tis is called Indian political ans Buraucratic system.Nobody think about them.If these people get their service benifit then we will be grateful to our system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shyam sarkar (talk • contribs) 06:33, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Some Medical officers(Homeopathy)working an autonomous Body are deprived 25 years without DACP and waiting for Retirement.
Some Medical officers of National Institute of Homeopathy, kolkata,an autonomous organisation under the Ministry of Health and F.W, Govt. Of India,dept. of AYUSH are deprived for 25 years. There is no promotional avenue for them or Dynamic ACP is not implemented there.This dynamic ACP recommended by 5th and 6th Central Pay Commission for isolated post of Group A service.So that government of India implemented it for Central Health Service cadres, CGHS, all IITs, Railway Board, Defence Health Service, Delhi Municipality even some States Health Service. Union Health Minister is the President of Governing body of this Institute but there is no solution for this poor doctors. some of them will retire with in few years. So it is regrate to say that one employee was joine in a post and retiring from the same, it is our India we are proud of our Country!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.67.59 (talk) 11:44, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

All MPs under 30 in India's Parliament are children of MPs

 * How to Get Ahead in India, June 25, 2011, wsj.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.178.120.183 (talk) 08:12, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Map of state governments led by political parties
A lot has changed between 2009 and now and it must be updated to reflect current status — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.186.23.2 (talk) 17:12, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Politics of India/Archive 1


text:
Talk:Ferdinand

Ferdinand I
I think, the link "Ferdinand I of Castile and Leon" should point to "Ferdinand I of Leon".

Cheers Klaus

 * He was king of both. Which was he most famous for in his lifetime? Drutt (talk) 02:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Huh? Jessiemendozax (talk) 19:25, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Changes
I have shut down Ferdinand (name) and moved the information there (back) here. Please discuss before making such changes in future. Bastie 02:15, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Band
I see that there is Franz Ferdinand band in this article but it seems to be missing the other rather more important Franz Ferdinand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.122.63.6 (talk) 05:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

"Journey"
My understanding is that the word "journey" is in the wrong place: it is postulated that "ferd" may not mean "peace" (fried) but "journey" (fahrt).

Does anyone object to me moving it?Lyphatma (talk) 08:57, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ferdinand


text:
Karasuma Line

The Karasuma Line (烏丸線) is one of the two lines of the Kyoto Municipal Subway operated by Kyoto Municipal Transportation Bureau in Kyoto, Japan. On maps, diagrams and signboards, the line is colored green, and its stations are given numbers following the letter "K". It serves seven of Kyoto's eleven wards: Sakyō-ku, Kita-ku, Kamigyō-ku, Nakagyō-ku, Shimogyō-ku, Minami-ku, and Fushimi-ku. It connects Kokusaikaikan in Sakyō-ku and Takeda in Minami-ku.

Between Kitaōji and Jūjō, trains run beneath the north–south Karasuma Street, hence the name. They link to the other subway line, the Tozai Line, at Karasuma Oike. They also connect to the JR lines at Kyoto Station and the Hankyu Kyoto Line running beneath Shijō Street at the intersection of Shijō Karasuma, Kyoto's central business district. At Shijō Karasuma, the subway station is named Shijō, whereas Hankyu's station is called Karasuma.

The Transportation Bureau and Kintetsu Railway jointly operate through services, which continue to the Kintetsu Kyoto Line to Kintetsu Nara Station in Nara. The Karasuma Line and the Kyoto Line connect at Kyoto and Takeda.

This line covers a total distance of 13.7 km in 26 minutes and the average daily ridership in 2009 was 411,881 passengers.

Kyoto Municipal Transportation Bureau

 * 10 series
 * 20 series

Kintetsu Railway Co., Ltd.

 * Kintetsu 3200 series
 * Kintetsu 3220 series

History
The section between Kitaōji and Kyoto was completed on May 29, 1981. The line was extended from Kyoto to Takeda on June 11, 1988. Through services from Kitaōji to Shin-Tanabe on the Kyoto Line started on August 28, 1988. The line was extended from Kitaōji to Kitayama on October 24, 1990. Oike Station was renamed Karasuma Oike Station on May 22, 1997, prior to the inauguration of the Tōzai Line running beneath the east–west Oike Street (御池通). The line was extended from Kitayama to Kokusaikaikan on June 3, 1997. Express services from Kokusaikaikan to Kintetsu Nara in Nara started on March 15, 2000.

title: Karasuma Line


text:
Talk:Eugène Ysaÿe

Pronunciation
The pronunciation of this for non-Belgians is problematic. A pronunciation guide would help. Which syllable get the emphasis?: Is the preference for EE-Say, EE-Say-ee, EYE-say, EYE-sayee, eye-SAY, or something else? Frankatca 00:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This article is a condensation of another
This article is a condensation of my own much longer version which is available online at an old website of mine:. Member. jean-claude (ancient member of the not any more existing Ysaÿe Foundation)

 * After reading both, I'd tend to agree the assertion above, at least for some sections (such as Performing Career). However they are different enough so that Wikipedia article can be said as not copying directly from other sites. BTW, the link above is still valuable enough as external link. AbelCheung (talk) 23:01, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Harmonie du Soir
that's a very good short article, only a tiny detail is wrong: this piece refered to: Harmonie du soir (op 31), is a Poem for solo stringquartet and string orchestra, one of the numerous poems written by Ysaÿe. I see you are viola player, do you know that there is a version for viola from the Ysaÿe cello solo sonata op 28 ? and also a beautiful and arduous string trio from him (called "le Chimay")... I was forgotting the other trio, 2Ggn & Br, which is a transcription by himself of his sonata for 2 violins (only the first moviment)

Ernest Bloch
There is a mention in the Ernest Bloch article that Ysaye was one of his teachers. Although this article mentions Ysaye's violin students there is no mention of Bloch. Maybe this should be put in the article as Bloch is quite a notable composer but as I don't know enough about the subject I'm not sure how it should be incorporated into the article --Godfinger 00:22, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Protection and Addition
Perhaps this article should be protected in some sort of way, as someone put the entire works of Henryk Vieuxtemps into the Ysaye works, replacing most of the works he actually made. I deleted the works I knew that were not by Ysaye, and pieced together a few works I know that are by Ysaye. Would someone please assist in adding to that list?shawn1cai (talk) 00:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review
I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article is B-class; even though he's best known as a performer, more could be said about the popular reception of his playing. A few more words about his compositions could be written. My full review is on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page.  Magic ♪piano 15:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

"Complete" discography
The discography is certainly not complete. I just saw a CD recording of his opera "Pier li Houyeû" in a store. So either, it's just a selection of discs, or you should please complete it indeed. 92.106.30.213 (talk) 14:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I'm taking the liberty to rename the section. AbelCheung (talk) 23:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Sonata for Two Violins
Currently there are two Sonatas for two violins listed in the list of works (one incorrectly under the heading for "solo violin" repertoire). I cannot however find any evidence that there are indeed two sonatas for two violins written by Ysaye, one in C major and one in A minor... seeing that both keys have the same key signature, perhaps references to a "C major" sonata are in fact incorrect? I say this after listening to a Youtube video of the double sonata labelled as "C major", but is actually the same music as in another video labelled as the "A minor". In any case, the first movement ends in A minor, and the 3rd movement is in the relative major key of A major... Which is what leads me to believe that a C major Sonata for Two Violins doesn't actually exist.

Can somebody look into this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enakamura (talk • contribs) 10:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Update: Looking at the German Wikipedia page here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Ysaÿe, there is only one sonata for two violins listed, as a posthumous opus. I am updating this article accordingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.190.78.243 (talk) 14:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eugène Ysaÿe