text:
Talk:Feldspar

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 September 2020 and 9 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Klm10.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

First line first line of article
To the absolute beginner the first line of this article is confusing. The title of the article Is "Feldspar" then Feldspars plural are defined. Beginners think Feldspar is either a rock or at best a single mineral. Feldspar is the name given to a group of minerals made up of the Feldspars.Ruskin (talk) 04:51, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Pegmatite dikes
What does pegmatite dikes mean?
 * I believe in the context of geology a "dike" is a place where rock type has intruded into another rock type, often as magma seeping into cracks in older rock and hardening. So a pegmatite dike would be an intrusion of pegmatite into some other type of rock. --Delirium 19:41 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Ok, thanks. I just found the definition on dictionary.com which I hadn't noticed before.  dave 17:02 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Can someone help me out with the geological definition of dike at dike? Extend it to a dike (geology) page if you like... Thanks. dave 17:18 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Done - or at least started. Dike (geology) --Vsmith 03:16, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Etymology of "feldspar"
Funnily enough, on the German Wikipedia page for Feldspar the first part of the word Feldspat "feld" is explained to have its origin in the Swedish language with "fjäll" meaning hill, mountain. I'm also not so sure about your explaination for "spat" as well. I think I heard that its origin might be German ("spalten") with the meaning cleavable. Alex, Austria
 * I'm not sure about the Swedish terms either, Alex. The Swedish "fjäll" means (fish)scales or shingles, not mountain. The word "spat" does not seem to exist in Swedish language (online translation only, I'm not native). Its closeness to "spalten", the German word for "to cleave" is apparent (but maybe wrong...). But I seem to remember such etymology from college. "to cleave" in Swedish is "klyva". The etymological explanation as it is now (Mar 2008):
 * "Feldspar is derived from the German Feld, field, and Spat, a rock that does not contain ore."
 * thus feldspar = "rock without ore from the field", is probably wrong. feldspar = "cleaves like fishscales" would make more sense to me. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to change anything. --83.77.134.53 (talk) 00:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I´m Swedish. You got hit by two meanings of "fjäll": One is scales (mostly on fishes), the other is for the northern part of the mountainchain between Sweden and Norway. (The word also exists in Norwegian language and then covers all the way south for the higher mountins.) It is not used for other mountains in Sweden or for mountains outside Scandinavian area.Seniorsag (talk) 13:38, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm no linguist, but as a geologist, I can confidently say that although cleavage is a basic, identifiable characteristic of minerals, feldspar in no way "cleaves like fishscales". Feldspar is the second (maybe the first?) most common mineral in the crust, so describing it as a field or mountain rock that does not contain ore (which is typically true) is a pretty reasonable etymology 129.138.12.142 (talk) 22:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the already cited linguists concur. Cesiumfrog (talk) 14:12, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, "spar" comes from german "spat" which means cleavage. A lot of minerals have "spat" in their german names (mainly synonymes) like baryte ("Schwerspat" = heavy spar), fluorite ("Flussspat"), calcite ("Kalkspat"). They are all synonyms for minerals with good cleavage. Baryte for example is an important Ba-ore. I never heard about the ore-interpretation. I'm a german mineralogist.
 * You could try it to read on the german Wiki. I don't know if it's true (no one can say that). But there are 2 possibilities. But I can't imagine, that the word "Spat" means without ore. There is no connection between Spat and ore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:1205:34eb:55a0:182f:2414:4332:82b5 (talk) 01:41, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

I am going to fix this. An etymology is how a word originated, not what it currently means. Spat means flake or mineral that cleaves into flakes, says the German Wikipedia with attribution. Rp (talk) 07:38, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * So I did. Rp (talk) 08:27, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Images
Please can someone give an idea of size, such as a scale bar. This is very basic stuff. Not including these is bad practice and makes the images of very little value.

Output map
This looks wrong. Each circle is said to represent a % of the top producer. The top producer is given as one country (Italy) but a number of circles of given for single countries (for example 9 in China) Surely the map should be based on countries aolone, or individual companies alone. The present design is a mess.

Images
Please can someone give an idea of size, such as a scale bar. This is very basic stuff. Not including these is bad practice and makes the images of very little value. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.64.39 (talk • contribs)

 * I have answered here. Best regards Rhanyeia  12:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Text on map
Could some explain what "This map is consistent with incomplete set of data too as long as the top producer is known" actually means? As it is presently written it is jibberish. For example if it is acknowledged there is an incomplete set of data then it would be better not have anything - remember no data is preferable to bad data. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

I agree. It does not make a great deal of sense to me. Also data should not be published if it is incomplete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.127.176 (talk) 21:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

FELDSPAR
My name is Jessica M. and i'm doing a recearch on a few different rocks but I need the type of info. that tells you where\how it was formed..please help70.225.129.44 (talk) 13:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Feldspar is a mineral, not a rock. It forms in a number of conditions, but mostly under silica rich igneous conditions. 130.39.191.251 (talk) 23:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * More correctly Feldspar is the name of a group of minerals the Feldspars. This confuses beginners Ruskin (talk) 04:51, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

abundance
Currently the quartz page says that quartz is the second most abundant mineral (in the earth's crust) after feldspar. The silica page (quartz is a type of silica) says that silica is the most abundant mineral.

These claims are not necessarily contradictory. But it is terribly unscientific! One should avoid ever giving a bare ranking like this, because it depends on the implicit yet arbitrary choice of categorisation scheme. For example, if the earth were 36% feldspar, 34% quartz, 10% opal and 20% sand then clearly feldspar ranks first (36%>34%) but still silica also ranks first (64%). Also, by being more discriminating (say, considering separate types of feldspar, and specific types of quartz) we can make sand be the third most abundant or the first most abundant.. you see these rankings mean nothing at all, which is why the only scientific thing to do is to state the percentage (not the comparative rank) and be done with it.

In this case it would be compounded even worse: it also depends on whether the ranking is by weight or by volume or by number or atoms!

Worse, in this case, one of the pages is actually wrong (and not just implying an inconsistent categorisation). The crust (geology) page has a table saying that silica makes up 60% of the crust. But this article says that feldspar makes up 60% of the earth's crust. These are mathematically contradictory unless one counts the silicon and oxygen in the feldspar as if they were not chemically bound to anything else (but doing so would negate the whole point of comparing mineral abundances rather than elemental abundances).

Recommend a separate page for mineral abundances, and duke citations there. Cesiumfrog (talk) 04:02, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 * First feldspar is a mineral group, not a single mineral. Quartz is a specific mineral and by far the most common of the "silica" SiO2 group. Silica and sand are not minerals. As for the silica content of the crust, feldspar and most rock forming minerals are silicate minerals and contain "silica" as SiO44−, (Si2O7)6−, (SixO3x)2x-, SiO3, Si4O11, Si2O5 and then the 1:2 ratio SiO2 in tectosislicates which make up nearly 75% of the crust. Watch them "oranges and apples":). I agree though that these grand comparisons are a bit lacking and seem contradictory - especially for those who don't know the details. And looking at the silicon dioxide page, the statement: Silica is the most abundant mineral in the Earth's crust. needs editing as silica is not itself a mineral and the main mineral form of silica, quartz, does not make up 60%. Vsmith (talk) 15:53, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * And the table in the crust (geology) page is presenting the chemical make-up with the SiO2 as the chemical oxide of silicon and not the mineral quartz. Vsmith (talk) 16:06, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Rotten link
Reference 2 is a rotten link to http://www.ima-na.org/about_industrial_minerals/feldspar.asp and it's cited in five places in the article. I don't know how to remove all the references so am flagging it here for some caretaker's consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.237.197.79 (talk) 02:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

 * I've updated the link - thanks for spotting it. Mikenorton (talk) 11:12, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Color
The side bar lists several colors, but there's no mention in the article (that I can find) of what causes the different colors--impurities, different amounts of Na/K/Ca? (The article on granite suggests that it's the K feldspars that have a pink color.) And that to me is one of the most interesting properties--easily observed in different kinds of granite. Maybe someone could add an explanation of the color? Mcswell (talk) 01:58, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Color in minerals is really complicated and not as well understood as you'd think. K-spars are often pink, but can also be white, tan, red, yellow, or even green, blue, lilac, or other colors. "Color in feldspars" by Hofmeister and Rossman, Chapter 11 in this book here http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/RIM/rim02.html is probably what you're looking for. 128.97.31.102 (talk) 20:03, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Orthoclase vs. potassium-feldspar?
Is there any reason why pure K-feldspar should not be referred to as "orthoclase" in the Compositions section? This is always what I've heard it referred to, and it seems that calling it potassium-feldspar might be confusing with other intermediate K-Na compositions, which are more often called "K-feldspars" or "alkali feldspars." Thoughts? Schlockading (talk) 21:05, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Sanidine is another (higher temperature) K-feldspar, so that would be the reason I think. Mikenorton (talk) 22:41, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I've seen orthoclase used as a general term for all K-rich feldspars (mostly by mapping geologists), but more properly it refers only to those K-spars with an intermediate range of aluminum-silicon disorder. Sanidine is highly disordered; microcline is mostly ordered. Also, alkali feldspars with intermediate composition should be referred to as just that. 128.97.31.102 (talk) 20:12, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Possible removal from list
An entry in List of colors: A–F contained a link to this page.

The entry is :

 * Feldspar

I don't see any evidence that this color is discussed in this article and plan to delete it from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors

If someone decides that this color should have a section in this article and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:41, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Weathering Section
I'm adding to the section on weathering with information about chemical weathering. Klm10 (talk) 03:08, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Feldspar


text:
Punk-O-Rama

Punk-O-Rama was the title given to a series of ten compilation albums published by Epitaph Records. The first volume was released in 1994, the second in 1996, and the rest annually from 1998 to 2005. The albums included artists from Epitaph's roster as well as from its subsidiary label ANTI- and its partnership labels Hellcat Records and Burning Heart Records. In total the series included 257 songs contributed by 88 different artists.

Rancid and Pennywise are the only bands to appear on all 10 volumes. Scott Radinsky appears on all 10, 1 with Ten Foot Pole and 9 with Pulley.

As its title implied, the series featured mostly punk rock and various punk subgenres such as garage punk, hardcore punk, pop punk, post-hardcore, ska punk, skate punk, and street punk. However, as the series went on and the labels' rosters diversified, the music of the Punk-O-Rama compilations grew to include additional styles of music such as alternative hip hop, alternative rock, digital hardcore, emo, experimental music, garage rock, indie rock, metalcore, psychobilly, and screamo.

Artwork for the series was inconsistent over the first four installments, with cover art and layout provided by varying artists and designers. C. Martin provided artwork and layout for both the fifth and sixth volumes, though they had differing styles and themes. Nick Pritchard of Metrosea.com provided artwork and layout for the final four volumes of the series, which adopted a similar look and style.

Epitaph also organized several Punk-O-Rama tours featuring bands that had contributed to the compilations, such as Agnostic Front, All, The Distillers, Guttermouth, Millencolin, Straight Faced, and the Voodoo Glow Skulls. Occasionally these would be accompanied by special Punk-O-Rama tour sampler CDs that differed from the main. series of compilation albums. In 2003 the label published the DVD Punk-O-Rama: The Videos, Volume 1, including 22 music videos and "The Epitaph Story", a short film relating the history of the label. Though a second volume was never published, the subsequent ninth and tenth albums in the compilation series included DVDs of music videos as well.

In 2006 Epitaph announced the retirement of the Punk-O-Rama brand in favor of a new series titled Unsound, the less genre-specific title being more conducive to the label's expanding roster of musical styles. However, only one compilation was published under the Unsound banner before that series was also discontinued.

Punk-O-Rama (1994)
Punk-O-Rama is a compilation album released by Epitaph Records on November 18, 1994. Featuring twelve bands from the label's roster, the album was the first installment in the Punk-O-Rama series which continued until 2005.

Punk-O-Rama Vol. 2 (1996)
Punk-O-Rama Vol. 2 is the second compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series. This was the first entry to be released at a low price, so that it was more appealing for someone to buy to check out Epitaph's artists.

All of the songs were previously released with the exception of DFL's "Thought Control". Me First and the Gimme Gimmes' cover of Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young" made its CD debut here, as it was previously only available on Billy, a vinyl single released by the band.

Vans Warped Tour '97 Presents Punk-O-Rama 2.1 (1997)
A tour edition of this volume was released in conjunction with the 1997 Vans Warped Tour. The artwork and track listing are slightly modified. The track listing is as follows:

Punk-O-Rama III (1998)
Punk-O-Rama III is the third compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series.

This entry features two previously unreleased tracks, "We Threw Gasoline on the Fire and Now We Have Stumps for Arms and No Eyebrows" by NOFX and "Wake Up" by Pennywise. NOFX's track was later released on their rarities compilation 45 or 46 Songs That Weren't Good Enough to Go on Our Other Records. The European version has Undeclinable Ambuscade's track "7 Years" and takes off "Lozin' Must" by Millencolin.

 * Europe version

Punk-O-Rama 4: Straight Outta The Pit (1999)
Punk-O-Rama 4 is the fourth compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series. This is the only entry to have a sub-title.

All of the tracks were previously released except the first track, "Fight It" by Pennywise.

This was the first entry to include bands from the Swedish Burning Heart Records label, which has its material distributed by Epitaph Records in North America. It also includes a song from the Tom Waits album Mule Variations, which was released on Epitaph's indie rock label ANTI-.

 * Europe version
 * 1) "Fight It" – Pennywise – 2:15
 * 2) "Second Best" – Pulley – 1:49
 * 3) "Faster Than the World" – H2O – 2:17
 * 4) "1998" – Rancid – 2:46
 * 5) "Watch Me Play" – Heideroosjes – 2:26
 * 6) "Hopeless Romantic" – The Bouncing Souls – 2:07
 * 7) "The Getaway" – Ten Foot Pole – 3:41
 * 8) "Think the World" – ALL – 1:21
 * 9) "Snap Decision (At Rope's End)" – New Bomb Turks – 2:23
 * 10) "Generator" – Bad Religion – 3:19
 * 11) "I Will Deny" – Dwarves – 1:39
 * 12) "Let's Do This" – Straight Faced – 1:23
 * 13) "It's My Life" – Agnostic Front – 2:29
 * 14) "Panic" – Beatsteaks – 2:40
 * 15) "Theme From Eeviac" – Man Or Astro-Man? – 2:32
 * 16) "They Always Come Back" – Voodoo Glow Skulls – 3:23
 * 17) "Twisted" – Zeke – 1:56
 * 18) "Don't Panic" – Gas Huffer – 1:46
 * 19) "Big in Japan" – Tom Waits – 4:04
 * 20) "Someone to Love?" – Gentleman Jack Grisham – 2:52
 * 21) "A Life's Story" – Union 13 – 2:09
 * 22) "Picture This" – 98 Mute – 2:05
 * 23) "Lucky" – Osker – 2:14
 * 24) "The Best Place In The World To Leave" – I Against I – 1:04
 * 25) "Kids of the K-Hole" – NOFX – 4:49

Punk-O-Rama #5 (2000)
Punk-O-Rama 5 is the fifth compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series.

All of the tracks were previously released except for "Pump Up the Valium" by NOFX and "Problematic" by All. The latter two tracks were title tracks left off the bands' current albums at the time, NOFX's Pump Up the Valuum and ALL's Problematic. Also, NOFX's track was later released on the rarities compilation album 45 or 46 Songs That Weren't Good Enough to Go on Our Other Records.

"Secure Horizons" by Guttermouth was later rerecorded on their Covered With Ants record.

"Good Rats" by Dropkick Murphys was later rerecorded on their Sing Loud Sing Proud record.

The Rancid song "Poison" was a demo version of the song off their Rancid 5 record.

This is the only entry in the series not to include a song by Bad Religion.

 * Europe version

Punk-O-Rama 2001, Vol. 6 (2001)
Punk-O-Rama 2001, Vol. 6 is the sixth compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series.

The cover is a reference to a scene in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, as this was the release from the year 2001.

The US release of Punk-O-Rama Vol. 6 included a total of five previously unreleased tracks. The unreleased tracks are "Blackeye" by Millencolin (US only), "We're Desperate" by Pennywise, "Original Me" by Descendents, "Let Me In" by Beatsteaks and "Bath of Least Resistance" by NOFX. Pennywise perform "We're Desperate" with Exene Cervenka, who is from X which is the band that originally performed the song. "Original Me" was originally performed by ALL, which is the band the members of the Descendents formed when Milo Aukerman went to college. "Bath of Least Resistance" by NOFX was later released on their rarities compilation 45 or 46 Songs That Weren't Good Enough to Go on Our Other Records. "Blackeye" by Millencolin was later released in their album Home from Home, and was the only previously unreleased track to not appear on the UK release of Punk-O-Rama Vol. 6.

Punk-O-Rama 7 (2002)
Punk-O-Rama 7 is the seventh compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series.

 * 1) "Fingers Crossed" – Millencolin – 2:47
 * 2) "Wayfarer" – Hot Water Music – 2:58
 * 3) "Up for Sale" – The (International) Noise Conspiracy – 3:26
 * 4) "The World" – Pennywise – 2:26
 * 5) "Black City" – Division of Laura Lee – 3:36
 * 6) "Olympia, WA" – NOFX – 2:59
 * 7) "Addicts of Communication" – Randy – 2:00
 * 8) "Hooray for Me" – Pulley – 2:19
 * 9) "The Something Special" – The Bouncing Souls – 3:23
 * 10) "God Knows" – Beatsteaks – 2:34
 * 11) "The Defense" – Bad Religion – 3:54
 * 12) "The End" – Deviates – 2:02
 * 13) "Heroes from Our Past" – Dropkick Murphys – 3:30
 * 14) "Bob" – Rancid – 2:02
 * 15) "Wasted Words" – Death by Stereo – 3:33
 * 16) "Love to Be Hated" – Agnostic Front – 2:13
 * 17) "Outside Looking In" – 1208 – 2:46
 * 18) "M.A.D." – 98 Mute – 3:16
 * 19) "My Girlfriend" – Guttermouth – 2:35

 * Europe version
 * 1) "Fingers Crossed" – Millencolin – 2:47
 * 2) "Wayfarer" – Hot Water Music – 2:58
 * 3) "Up for Sale" – The (International) Noise Conspiracy – 3:26
 * 4) "The World" – Pennywise – 2:26
 * 5) "Black City" – Division of Laura Lee – 3:36
 * 6) "Olympia, WA" – NOFX – 2:59
 * 7) "Addicts of Communication" – Randy – 2:00
 * 8) "Hooray for Me" – Pulley – 2:19
 * 9) "The Something Special" – The Bouncing Souls – 3:23
 * 10) "God Knows" – Beatsteaks – 2:34
 * 11) "The Defense" – Bad Religion – 3:54
 * 12) "The End" – Deviates – 2:02
 * 13) "Heroes from Our Past" – Dropkick Murphys – 3:30
 * 14) "Bob" – Rancid – 2:02
 * 15) "Wasted Words" – Death by Stereo – 3:33
 * 16) "Love to Be Hated" – Agnostic Front – 2:13
 * 17) "Outside Looking In" – 1208 – 2:46
 * 18) "M.A.D." – 98 Mute – 3:16
 * 19) "My Girlfriend" – Guttermouth – 2:35
 * 20) "What's Left Of The Flag" – Flogging Molly – 3:39
 * 21) "We're All Fucked Up" – Heideroosjes – 3:17

Punk-O-Rama 8 (2003)
Punk-O-Rama 8 is the eighth compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series. It was released in 2003.

This is the only entry in the series to be a two-disc by containing two CDs. The entries following this had two discs, but they were one CD and one DVD.

The song "Quick Death" is on here in two different forms. The first is the original by Transplants, and the latter is a remix of that track by Error.

 * Disc one
 * 1) "I Am a Revenant" – The Distillers
 * 2) "Don't Call It a Comeback" – Motion City Soundtrack
 * 3) "Trusty Chords" – Hot Water Music
 * 4) "As Wicked" – Rancid
 * 5) "New Day" – The Bouncing Souls
 * 6) "The Greatest Fall (Of All Time)" – Matchbook Romance
 * 7) "The Idiots Are Taking Over" – NOFX
 * 8) "Who We Are" – Bad Religion
 * 9) "Trapped In" – Division of Laura Lee
 * 10) "Sink Venice" – Ikara Colt
 * 11) "Sweating Blood" – F-Minus
 * 12) "Makeshift Patriot" – Sage Francis
 * 13) "A New Morning, Changing Weather" – The (International) Noise Conspiracy
 * 14) "Welfare Problems" – Randy
 * 15) "Thickfreakness" – The Black Keys
 * 16) "Wasted Words" – Death By Stereo
 * 17) *Multimedia track

European Version does not include Wasted Words by Death By Stereo, but does include extra tracks:
 * Daddy's Little Defect - Sugarcult
 * Wish - Beatsteaks
 * The Struggle Continues - Looptroop

 * Disc two
 * 1) "Unstoppable" – Death By Stereo
 * 2) "Coup d'Etat" – Refused
 * 3) "Holiday in the Sun" – Pennywise
 * 4) "Gonna Be a Blackout Tonight" – Dropkick Murphys
 * 5) "Quick Death" – Transplants
 * 6) "Bird Sings Why the Caged I Knows" – Atmosphere
 * 7) "Train of Flesh" – Turbonegro
 * 8) "Incorporeal" – Tiger Army
 * 9) "Bowmore" – Millencolin
 * 10) "The Ocean Song" – Pulley
 * 11) "Contribution" – Guttermouth
 * 12) "Warpath" – Bombshell Rocks
 * 13) "Get This Right!" – Raised Fist
 * 14) "Lose Another Friend" – No Fun at All
 * 15) "Roll Around" – U.S. Bombs
 * 16) "Shattered Faith" – Bad Religion
 * 17) "Quick Death [Remix]" – Error

Punk-O-Rama Vol. 9 (2004)
Punk-O-Rama Vol. 9 is the ninth compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series.

This is the first of two entries to be released as a two-disc with a DVD. The DVD features current music videos by bands on the CD, with the exception of Randy and Converge who do not appear on the CD. Additionally, of the bands that appear on both the CD and the DVD, only The Bouncing Souls and Matchbook Romance have the same song on each, with "Sing Along Forever" and "Promise" respectively.

All of the tracks on the CD were previously released except "Seein' Diamonds" by Hot Water Music and "The Plague (live)" by Death By Stereo.

This is the only entry in the series not to include a song by NOFX.

This was one of the main albums where the now popular band Motion City Soundtrack first found their fame with the humorous video shown on the DVD.

 * CD
 * 1) "Social Suicide" – Bad Religion – 1:35
 * 2) "Ride the Wings of Pestilence" – From First to Last – 4:20
 * 3) "Sick Little Suicide" – The Matches – 4:17
 * 4) "The Keys to Life vs. 15 Minutes of Fame" – Atmosphere – 2:40
 * 5) "Now I Know" – Pennywise – 2:57
 * 6) "Throw Down" – Motion City Soundtrack – 3:12
 * 7) "Tropical London" – Rancid – 3:03
 * 8) "The Dirty Glass" – Dropkick Murphys – 3:37
 * 9) "Plea from a Cat Named Virtute" – The Weakerthans – 3:49
 * 10) "Promise" – Matchbook Romance – 4:16
 * 11) "City in the Sea" – Scatter the Ashes – 4:22
 * 12) "Liberation Frequency" – Refused – 4:11
 * 13) "Struck By a Wrecking Ball" – Nekromantix – 3:28
 * 14) "Bad Reputation" – Pulley – 2:53
 * 15) "Fall Apart" – 1208 – 3:08
 * 16) "Sing Along Forever" – The Bouncing Souls – 1:35
 * 17) "Seein' Diamonds" – Hot Water Music – 3:36
 * 18) "Life Goes By" – The Special Goodness – 2:45
 * 19) "Miss Take (Radio Edit)" – HorrorPops – 3:06
 * 20) "Temptation" – Tiger Army – 2:10
 * 21) "Dirty Love" – Division Of Laura Lee – 3:11
 * 22) "Burn in Hell" – Error – 3:04
 * 23) "Now" – Eyedea & Abilities – 4:21
 * 24) "The Plague (live)" – Death By Stereo – 2:58

 * DVD
 * 1) "Sing Along Forever" – The Bouncing Souls
 * 2) "Miss Take" – HorrorPops
 * 3) "Trying to Find a Balance" – Atmosphere
 * 4) "Insects Destroy" – Pulley
 * 5) "The Next Big Thing" – 1208
 * 6) "Promise" – Matchbook Romance
 * 7) "The Future Freaks Me Out" – Motion City Soundtrack
 * 8) "Psalm for the Future for the Elks Lodge Last Call" – The Weakerthans
 * 9) "X-Ray Eyes" – Randy
 * 10) "NFA" – The Special Goodness
 * 11) "Heartless" – Converge
 * 12) "Hand In Hand" - Beatsteaks

Punk-O-Rama 10 (2005)
Punk-O-Rama 10 is the tenth and final compilation album in the Punk-O-Rama series. The following year saw the start of Epitaph Records' new compilation series called Unsound.

This is one of only two, along with the previous entry, to be released as a two-disc with a DVD. The DVD features current music videos by bands on the CD, with the exception of C. Aarme, the Weakerthans, the Black Keys, Atmosphere, Horrorpops and Eyedea & Abilities who do not appear on the CD. Additionally, of the bands that appear on both the CD and the DVD, only the Bouncing Souls and Roger Miret and the Disasters have the same song on each, with "Anchors Aweigh" and "Riot, Riot, Riot" respectively.

Although most of the tracks on the CD were previously released, this entry features more unreleased tracks than any other in the series. "Shoot Me in the Smile" by The Matches, "News From The Front" by Bad Religion (however, the song was a bonus track on certain regional releases of Stranger Than Fiction), "Mixin' Up Adjectives" by This Is Me Smiling, "From the Tops of Trees" by Scatter the Ashes, "Mission from God" by The Offspring, "Bloodstain" by Pulley and "Not the Way" by The Special Goodness" were all previously unreleased as was the live version of "Anchors Aweigh" by The Bouncing Souls. Additionally, "There's No Fun in Fundamentalism" by NOFX made its CD debut here, as it was previously only available on one of the 7" of the Month Club vinyl singles.

 * CD

 * 1) When "You're" Around – Motion City Soundtrack
 * 2) Lovers & Liars – Matchbook Romance
 * 3) Shoot Me in the Smile – The Matches
 * 4) Failure By Designer Jeans – From First to Last
 * 5) Sun Vs. Moon – Sage Francis
 * 6) News From The Front – Bad Religion
 * 7) Mixin' Up Adjectives – This Is Me Smiling
 * 8) Shadowland – Youth Group
 * 9) From the Tops of Trees – Scatter the Ashes
 * 10) I Need Drugs – Some Girls
 * 11) Mince Meat – Dangerdoom
 * 12) Mission From God – The Offspring
 * 13) Black Cloud – Converge
 * 14) Last Goodbyes – Hot Water Music
 * 15) Anchors Aweigh (Live) – The Bouncing Souls
 * 16) Farewell My Hell – Millencolin
 * 17) The Warrior's Code – Dropkick Murphys
 * 18) Dead Weight Falls – The Unseen
 * 19) White Knuckle Ride – Rancid
 * 20) Falling Down – Pennywise
 * 21) No Fun in Fundamentalism – NOFX
 * 22) Bloodstain – Pulley
 * 23) Not the Way – The Special Goodness
 * 24) Ghostfire – Tiger Army
 * 25) Riot, Riot, Riot – Roger Miret and the Disasters
 * 26) Laugh/Love/Fuck – The Coup

 * DVD
 * 1) "Ride the Wings of Pestilence" – From First to Last
 * 2) "My Eyes Burn" – Matchbook Romance
 * 3) "Ray" – Millencolin
 * 4) "Skeleton Jar" – Youth Group
 * 5) "Eagles Become Vultures" – Converge
 * 6) "Tu Puta Mi Casa" – C. Aarme
 * 7) "Roses of the Devil's Garden" – Tiger Army
 * 8) "Chain Me Free" – The Matches
 * 9) "Los Angeles Is Burning" – Bad Religion
 * 10) "Ride the Fence" – The Coup
 * 11) "Caesura" – Scatter the Ashes
 * 12) "The Reasons" – The Weakerthans
 * 13) "10 AM Automatic" – The Black Keys
 * 14) "National Disgrace" – Atmosphere
 * 15) "Miss Take" – HorrorPops
 * 16) "Tessie" – Dropkick Murphys
 * 17) "Anchors Aweigh" – The Bouncing Souls
 * 18) "Insects Destroy" – Pulley
 * 19) "Riot Riot Riot" – Roger Miret and the Disasters
 * 20) "Glass" – Eyedea & Abilities
 * 21) "NFA" – The Special Goodness

Unsound (2006)
Unsound is the first, and currently only, compilation released in the Unsound series, which replaced Epitaph Records' Punk-O-Rama series. Epitaph chose to change the name of the compilation series because the name "Punk-O-Rama", especially in its later releases, no longer reflected the wide range of music released on the compilations. Unsound is similar to the last two entries in the Punk-O-Rama series in that it is a two-disc set with a CD and a DVD, which contains music videos of bands on the CD.

CD
 * 1) "The Latest Plague" – From First to Last – 3:18
 * 2) "Situations" – Escape the Fate – 3:06
 * 3) "Little Maggots" – The Matches – 2:43
 * 4) "Forever Young [Radio Edit]" – Youth Group – 3:24
 * 5) "Attractive Today" – Motion City Soundtrack – 1:41
 * 6) "Surrender" – Matchbook Romance – 4:47
 * 7) "I Am the Wind, You Are The Feather" – Vanna – 3:45
 * 8) "Last Light" – Converge – 3:34
 * 9) "Hot Piss" – Some Girls – 1:03
 * 10) "Pretty People Never Lie, Vampires Never Die" – I Am Ghost – 4:32
 * 11) "Benzie Box" – DANGERDOOM – 3:00
 * 12) "Los Angeles Is Burning" – Bad Religion – 3:21
 * 13) "The Gold Song" – The Bouncing Souls – 3:16
 * 14) "Knocked Down" – Pennywise – 2:43
 * 15) "New Eyes Open" – The Draft – 3:32
 * 16) "The Buzz Kill (Reanimator Remix)" – Sage Francis – 4:45
 * 17) "The Latest Plague (Atticus Remix)" – From First to Last – 3:42

DVD
 * 1) "The Latest Plague" – From First to Last
 * 2) "Monsters" – Matchbook Romance
 * 3) "Hold Me Down" – Motion City Soundtrack
 * 4) "Chain Me Free" – The Matches
 * 5) "Bone Metal" – Some Girls
 * 6) "Shadowland" – Youth Group
 * 7) "Escape Artist" – Sage Francis
 * 8) "A.T.H.F." – Danger Doom
 * 9) "Los Angeles Is Burning" – Bad Religion
 * 10) "You Don't Have to Shout" – The Robocop Kraus

DVDs

 * Punk-O-Rama: The Videos, Volume 1 (2003)
 * Punk-O-Rama Vol. 9 (2004) – included with CD release
 * Punk-O-Rama 10 (2005) – included with CD release

Artists
A total of 88 artists contributed songs to the Punk-O-Rama compilation series. Pennywise and Rancid were the only acts to appear on all ten volumes, while Bad Religion, NOFX, and Pulley each appeared on nine installments. Scott Radinsky appears on all 10, 1 with Ten Foot Pole and 9 with Pulley.

Contributing artists included:

 * 59 Times the Pain
 * 98 Mute
 * 1208
 * Agnostic Front
 * All
 * Atmosphere
 * Bad Religion
 * Beatsteaks
 * The Black Keys
 * Bombshell Rocks
 * The Bouncing Souls
 * The Business
 * C.AARMÉ
 * Converge
 * The Coup
 * The Cramps
 * Danger Doom
 * Death by Stereo
 * Descendents
 * DFL
 * Deviates
 * The Distillers
 * Division of Laura Lee
 * Down by Law
 * Downset
 * Dropkick Murphys
 * Dwarves
 * Error
 * Eyedea & Abilities
 * F-Minus

 * Sage Francis
 * From First to Last
 * Gas Huffer
 * Jack Grisham
 * Guttermouth
 * H2O
 * The Hives
 * HorrorPops
 * Hot Water Music
 * The Humpers
 * I Against I
 * Ikara Colt
 * The (International) Noise Conspiracy
 * The Joykiller
 * Wayne Kramer
 * Madball
 * Matchbook Romance
 * The Matches
 * Me First and the Gimme Gimmes
 * Millencolin
 * Roger Miret and the Disasters
 * Motion City Soundtrack
 * Nekromantix
 * New Bomb Turks
 * No Fun at All
 * NOFX
 * The Offspring
 * Osker
 * Pennywise
 * Poison Idea

 * Pulley
 * Raised Fist
 * Rancid
 * Randy
 * Red Aunts
 * Refused
 * Satanic Surfers
 * Scatter the Ashes
 * SNFU
 * Some Girls
 * The Special Goodness
 * Straight Faced
 * Ten Foot Pole
 * This Is Me Smiling
 * Tiger Army
 * Total Chaos
 * Transplants
 * T.S.O.L.
 * Turbonegro
 * Union 13
 * The Unseen
 * U.S. Bombs
 * Vision
 * Voodoo Glow Skulls
 * Tom Waits
 * The Weakerthans
 * Youth Group
 * Zeke

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Punk-O-Rama


text:
Lady Randolph Churchill

Jeanette "Jennie" Spencer-Churchill (Jerome; 9 January 1854 – 29 June 1921), known as Lady Randolph Spencer-Churchill, was an American-born British socialite, the wife of Lord Randolph Churchill, and the mother of British prime minister Winston Churchill.

Early life
Jennie Jerome was born in the Cobble Hill section of Brooklyn in 1854, the second of four daughters (one died in childhood) of financier, sportsman, and speculator Leonard Jerome and his wife Clarissa (always called Clara ), daughter of Ambrose Hall, a landowner. Jerome's father was of Huguenot extraction, his forebears having emigrated to America from the Isle of Wight in 1710. Hall family lore insists that Jennie had Iroquois ancestry through her maternal grandmother; however, there is no research or evidence to corroborate this.

She was raised in Brooklyn, Paris, and New York City. She had two surviving sisters, Clarita (1851–1935) and Leonie (1859–1943). Another sister, Camille (1855–1863) died when Jennie was nine.

There is some disagreement regarding the time and place of her birth. A plaque at 426 Henry St. gives her year of birth as 1850, not 1854. However, on 9 January 1854, the Jeromes lived nearby at number 8 Amity Street (since renumbered as 197). It is believed that the Jeromes were temporarily staying at the Henry Street address, which was owned by Leonard's brother Addison, and that Jennie was born there during a snowstorm.

She was a noted beauty; an admirer, Lord d'Abernon, said that there was "more of the panther than of the woman in her look."

Personal life
Jennie was a talented amateur pianist, having been tutored as a girl by Stephen Heller, a friend of Chopin. Heller believed that his young pupil was good enough to attain "concert standard" with the necessary "hard work", of which, according to author Mary S. Lovell, he was not confident she was capable.

In 1909, when American impresario Charles Frohman became sole manager of The Globe Theatre, the first production was His Borrowed Plumes, written by Jennie. Although Mrs Patrick Campbell produced and took the lead role in the play, it was a commercial failure. It was at this point that Campbell began an affair with Jennie’s then husband, George Cornwallis-West.

Jennie served as the chair of the hospital committee for the American Women's War Relief Fund starting in 1914. This organization helped fund and staff two hospitals during World War I.

First marriage
Jennie Jerome was married for the first time on 15 April 1874, aged 20, at the British Embassy in Paris, to Lord Randolph Churchill, the third son of John Winston Spencer-Churchill, 7th Duke of Marlborough and Lady Frances Anne Vane. The couple had met at a sailing regatta on the Isle of Wight in August 1873, having been introduced by the Prince of Wales, the future King Edward VII.

Although they became engaged within three days of this initial meeting, the marriage was delayed for months while their parents argued over settlements. By this marriage, she was properly known as Lady Randolph Churchill and would have been addressed in conversation as Lady Randolph.

The Churchills had two sons: Winston (1874–1965), and John (1880–1947). Winston, the future prime minister, was born less than eight months after the marriage. Amongst his biographers, there are varied opinions on whether he was conceived before the marriage (notably William Manchester), or born two months prematurely after Lady Randolph "had a fall." When asked about the circumstances of his birth, Winston Churchill replied: "Although present on the occasion, I have no clear recollection of the events leading up to it." Rumours also circulated about the parentage of Winston's younger brother John, as Lady Randolph's sisters initially believed that the biological father of the second son, John (1880–1947) was Evelyn Boscawen, 7th Viscount Falmouth, although that was mostly discredited due to the boys' striking likeness to Randolph Churchill and to each other.

Lady Randolph is believed to have had numerous lovers during her marriage, including the Prince of Wales, Milan I of Serbia, Prince Karl Kinsky, and Herbert von Bismarck.

As was the custom of the day in her social class, Lady Randolph played a limited role in her sons' upbringing, relying largely upon nannies, especially Elizabeth Everest. Winston worshipped his mother, writing her numerous letters during his time at school and begging her to visit him, which she rarely did. He wrote about her in My Early Life: "She shone for me like the evening star. I loved her dearly – but at a distance." After he became an adult, they became good friends and strong allies, to the point where Winston regarded her almost as a political mentor, and “on even terms, more like brother and sister than mother and son.”

Lady Randolph was well-respected and influential in the highest British social and political circles. She was said to be intelligent, witty, and quick to laughter. It was said that Queen Alexandra especially enjoyed her company, although Lady Randolph had been involved in an affair with her husband the king, which was well known to Alexandra. Through her family contacts and her extramarital romantic relationships, Lady Randolph greatly helped her husband's early career, as well as that of her son Winston.

Later marriages
Lord Randolph died in 1895, aged 45. His death freed Jennie to move on effortlessly despite her lack of money; she mixed in the highest London society circles. Attending a weekend party in July 1898 hosted by Daisy Warwick, Jennie was introduced to George Cornwallis-West, a captain in the Scots Guards who was just 16 days older than her own son Winston; he was instantly smitten, and they spent much time together. George and Jennie were married on 28 July 1900 at St Paul's Church, Knightsbridge.

Around this time, Jennie became well known for chartering the hospital ship Maine to care for those wounded in the Second Boer War. She headed the effort to charter the ship in partnership with two American-born socialites residing in London: Jennie Goodell Blow and Fanny Ronalds. For this work, Churchill was awarded the decoration of the Royal Red Cross (RRC) in the South Africa Honours list published on 26 June 1902. Churchill received the decoration in person from King Edward VII on 2 October 1902 during a visit to Balmoral Castle.

In 1908, she wrote her memoirs, The Reminiscences of Lady Randolph Churchill.

George doted on Jennie, amorously nicknaming her "pussycat". However, they drifted apart. The Churchills were becoming a dedicated literary family, and George, who was a financial failure in the City, slowly fell out of love with his wife, who was old enough to be his mother. Short of money, Jennie contemplated selling the family home in Hertfordshire to move into the Ritz Hotel in Piccadilly. George was in fragile health, and recuperated at the Swiss skiing resort of St Moritz. Jennie took to writing plays for the West End, in many of which the star was Mrs. Patrick Campbell.

Jennie separated from George in 1912, and they were divorced in April 1914, whereupon Cornwallis-West married Mrs. Campbell. Jennie dropped the surname Cornwallis-West, and resumed, by deed poll, the name Lady Randolph Churchill.

Her third marriage, on 1 June 1918, was to Montagu Phippen Porch (1877–1964), a member of the British Civil Service in Nigeria, who was younger than her son Winston by three years. At the end of World War I, Porch resigned from the colonial service. After Jennie's death, he returned to West Africa, where his business investments had proven successful.

Death
In May 1921, while Montagu Porch was away in Africa, Jennie slipped while coming down a friend's staircase wearing new high-heeled shoes, breaking her ankle. Gangrene set in, and her left leg was amputated above the knee on 10 June. At age 67, she died at her home at 8 Westbourne Street in London on 29 June, following a haemorrhage of an artery in her thigh resulting from the amputation.

She was buried in the Churchill family plot at St Martin's Church, Bladon, Oxfordshire, next to her first husband.

Cocktail misattribution
The invention of the Manhattan cocktail is sometimes erroneously attributed to Jennie Churchill, who supposedly asked a bartender to make a special drink to celebrate the election of Samuel J. Tilden to the New York governorship in 1874. However, though the drink is believed to have been invented by the Manhattan Club (an association of New York Democrats) on that occasion, Jennie could not have been involved as she was in Europe at the time, about to give birth to her son Winston later that month.

Portrayals

 * Jennie Churchill was portrayed by Anne Bancroft in the film Young Winston (1972) and by Lee Remick in the British television series Jennie: Lady Randolph Churchill (1974).

title: Lady Randolph Churchill


text:
List of companies of Estonia

Estonia is a country in the Baltic region of Northern Europe. It is a developed country with an advanced, high-income economy that as of 2011 is among the fastest growing in the EU. Its Human Development Index ranks very highly, and it performs favourably in measurements of economic freedom, civil liberties and press freedom (3rd in the world in 2012 and 2007). The 2015 PISA test places Estonian high school students 3rd in the world, behind Singapore and Japan. Citizens of Estonia are provided with universal health care, free education and the longest paid maternity leave in the OECD. Since independence the country has rapidly developed its IT sector, becoming one of the world's most digitally advanced societies. In 2005 Estonia became the first nation to hold elections over the Internet, and in 2014 the first nation to provide E-residency.

For further information on the types of business entities in this country and their abbreviations, see "Business entities in Estonia".

Notable firms
This list includes notable companies with primary headquarters located in the country. The industry and sector follow the Industry Classification Benchmark taxonomy. Organizations which have ceased operations are included and noted as defunct.

Notable former firms

 * Esto-Muusika (music supply business in Estonia, existed 1921–1940)
 * Radio Factory RET

title: List of companies of Estonia


text:
Pinball Construction Set

Pinball Construction Set is a video game by Bill Budge written for the Apple II. It was originally published in 1982 through Budge's own company, BudgeCo, then was released by Electronic Arts in 1983 along with ports to the Atari 8-bit computers and Commodore 64.

The game created a new genre of video games: the construction set. Users can build and play their own virtual pinball machine by dropping bumpers, flippers, spinners, and other parts onto a table. Attributes such as gravity and the physics model can be modified. Tables can be saved to floppy disks and freely traded; Pinball Construction Set is not needed to play them.

Versions were released for the IBM PC compatibles (as a self-booting disk) and Mac in 1985. EA followed Pinball Construction Set with Music Construction Set, Adventure Construction Set, and Racing Destruction Set all from different authors.

Development

Bill Budge, author of the Raster Blaster pinball game for the Apple II, began developing Pinball Construction Set in July 1982. He did not want to write another game ("all the current (arcade) games are either maze games or Pong; I didn't want any part of that"), but began experimenting with game and graphical tools he had written. As part of the development process he purchased and disassembled an old Gottlieb Target Alpha pinball machine, so his new project could accurately depict its components. Budge does not enjoy playing video games, and described having to play pinball for months while developing Pinball Construction Set as "sheer torture".

The project was ambitious given the Apple's limited memory and graphics capabilities. While Budge did not work on the Apple Lisa project as an Apple employee from 1980 to 1981 he was aware of it and the Graphic User Interface research at Xerox PARC, and gave Pinball Construction Set a Lisa-like user interface. He originally published and distributed the game via his publishing company BudgeCo in late 1982; the box art was a photograph of the parts of the disassembled pinball machine. It did not sell well, however, as BudgeCo did not have the distribution network that other, larger companies did. Budge agreed to have EA to publish his game when Trip Hawkins approached him in 1983. Raster Blaster and other projects had already made Budge a celebrity among Apple II owners, and his name was much larger than the name of the software on EA's Pinball Construction Set box art.

Reception
Pinball Construction Set's sales had surpassed 250,000 copies by November 1989, and it ultimately sold over 300,000 copies in all platforms.

Pinball Construction Set's scope and flexibility on a 48K Apple II was impressive. Steve Wozniak called it "the greatest program ever written for an 8-bit machine", and for thousands the software was their first experience with a GUI. Computer Gaming World in 1983 considered the software toy revolutionary, and easy to understand because of its representative icons and drag-and-drop method of constructing a table; the magazine stated that "there's something almost magical about the way this product works. You take everything it does for granted after just a few minutes". The nine-page manual was considered "overkill", since Pinball Construction Set required no programming knowledge; an eight-year-old had no problems creating his own tables. Reviewing the Atari version in their "Arcade Alley" column, Video magazine described Pinball Construction Set as a "remarkably clever and easy-to-use program", and noted that a third-party company had already published a suite of pre-made pinball games for use with the construction set.

BYTE found the tool kit as "complete" and praised Budge's "marvelous sense of programming". The magazine reported that "creativity is encouraged. [Users] are gently encouraged and aided. This is valuable for children and inexperienced players and computer users". InfoWorld compared the game's importance to that of Scott Adams's Adventureland, and predicted that it "is sure to have lots of children and grandchildren".  Ahoy! called Pinball Construction Set as one of the best home entertainment programs of its era. The Addison-Wesley Book of Atari Software 1984 gave the "pinball wizard's dream" an overall A+ rating, praising the user interface as "exceptionally human engineered". Compute! listed it in 1988 as one of "Our Favorite Games", calling the game "a programming work of art ... a classic that never seems to grow old". Orson Scott Card said in the magazine in 1989 that the program was so flexible that his son used it as a graphics program.

Awards
In 1984 Pinball Construction Set received a Certificate of Merit in the category of "1984 Most Innovative Video Game/Computer Game" at the 5th annual Arkie Awards. One month later Softline readers named the game the ninth most-popular Apple and Atari program of 1983. Computer Gaming World in 1996 declared Pinball Construction Set the 50th-best computer game ever released, and ranked it #1 in the magazine's list of the most innovative computer games. Pinball Construction Set is an inductee in GameSpy's Hall of Fame. In 2008, Pinball Construction Set was honored at the 59th Annual Technology and Engineering Emmy Awards for "User Generated Content/Game Modification".

Legacy
A version for the Coleco Adam combined with Hard Hat Mack under the title The Best of Electronic Arts was completed but not released.

In 1993, Budge wrote a version of Pinball Construction Set for the Sega Genesis with the name Virtual Pinball.

Will Wright cited the game as an inspiration.

In 2013, Budge released the source code to the Atari 8-bit family version of Pinball Construction Set to the public on GitHub under the MIT license.

title: Pinball Construction Set


text:
2DTV

2DTV is a British satirical animated television series which was co-created and produced by Giles Pilbrow for ITV. It premiered on ITV on 27 March 2001 and was nominated for the Rose d'Or Award in both 2002 and 2003.

The programme was considered the spiritual successor of Spitting Image, a 1980s series that also featured work by Pilbrow. The show's style also paid homage to the animation studio Hanna-Barbera. The voice cast included Jon Culshaw, Jan Ravens and Mark Perry. 2DTV ran for five series before being cancelled in 2004 due to falling viewing figures. It was succeeded in 2008 by the short-lived series Headcases.

Background
2DTV employed the same satirical style as Spitting Image but used animation rather than puppets. The animation was produced using computer graphics, frequently with animators working up to the day of broadcast. The producer, Giles Pilbrow, was a veteran of Spitting Image, as were some of the show's voice artists.

The series was directed by Tim Searle. 2DTV was first broadcast in 2001, but an un-broadcast pilot episode was recorded nearly six months earlier. The pilot episode featured the resident newsreader played by Alistair McGowan, but the character was not carried over when the full seven-part first series was commissioned by ITV. Each episode in the first series lasted ten minutes.

A second seven-episode series began broadcasting in 2002, with each episode again lasting ten minutes. The series spawned its own official single in July 2002, "Shoot the Dog", performed by George Michael. The music video features an animated Michael, plus several other characters from 2DTV performing the song.

A commercial for the home media compilation The Best of 2DTV was banned by the Broadcast Advertising Clearance Centre in 2002. The commercial depicted George W. Bush taking one VHS out of its case and putting it in his toaster. Ofcom stated that advertisements for products cannot appear to be endorsed by someone without their permission – in this case, George W. Bush. The original advert was reworked into a sketch in which Bush writes a letter complaining about being portrayed as a moron by the media, then proceeding to "post" the letter in his toaster. The programme creators subsequently proposed another commercial, this time satirising Osama bin Laden, but they were informed that this would also be banned on the grounds that Bin Laden would have to give permission for his image to be used.

Another commercial satirised David Beckham compiling his list for Christmas, asking his wife; "how do you spell DVD?". A ban was later overturned on the grounds that the commercial was legitimate satire and the commercial was shown unedited. The programme's creators claimed that the controversy generated more interest in the show than the adverts could ever have done alone.

For the third series, each episode was extended to 20 minutes, including advertisements. After the third series, many of the original cast members, including Jon Culshaw, Jan Ravens and Mark Perry, decided to leave following an announcement that the fourth series would be extended to 30 minutes per episode. New cast members Lewis MacLeod, Kate O'Sullivan and Enn Reitel took over, appearing alongside the only remaining original cast member, Dave Lamb. All four returned for the fifth series in 2004, but due to falling ratings, its broadcast was placed in the so-called graveyard slot, and the show was officially cancelled at the end of that year.

Series 1–3

 * Jon Culshaw – providing impressions of Tony Blair, Jack Straw, William Hague, John Major, George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, Prince Charles, Angus Deayton, Ian Hislop, Paul Merton, Gareth Gates, Chris Eubank, Rolf Harris, Trevor McDonald, George Michael, David Beckham, Gregory Hines, Ed Catmul, Michael Jackson, Johnny Vegas, Steve Irwin, Lawrence Llewelyn-Bowen, Uri Geller, Bill Gates, Liam Gallagher, Anthony McPartlin, Lyle Lovett, Matt Groening, Sven-Göran Eriksson, Bill Murray, Dennis Quaid, John Lasseter, Michael Keaton, Roy Keane, Denzel Washington, Michael Owen, Tommy Vercetti, Pete Docter, Alex Ferguson, Steve Jobs, Ozzy Osbourne, Guy Ritchie, Iain Duncan Smith, Richard Madeley, Tiff Needell, Richard Gere, Phillip Schofield, Tim Henman, Quentin Willson, Tim Meadows, Matt Dillon, Jon Lovitz, Brendan Fraser
 * Jan Ravens – providing impressions of Cherie Blair, Ann Widdecombe, Queen Elizabeth, Camilla Parker Bowles, Princess Anne, Fergie, Geri Halliwell, Victoria Beckham, Anne Robinson, Jordan, Angelina Jolie, Heather Graham, Natasha Kaplinsky, Erin Brockovich, Amy Adams, Björk, Wendy Wilson, Carol “Smiley” Smillie, Natasha Richardson, Jennifer Lopez, Lindsay Lohan, Rita Wilson, Anna Chlumsky, Kate Middleton, Madonna, Davina McCall, Michelle Pfeiffer, Kylie Minogue, Sharon Osbourne, Elizabeth Perkins, Kelly Osbourne, Jade Goody, Andie MacDowell, Kim Woodburn, Aggie MacKenzie, Nigella Lawson, Dina Lohan, Jamie Lee Curtis, Queen Mother, Judy Finnigan, Angelina Jolie, Sandra Bullock, Daryl Hannah, Sally Field, Vanessa Paradis, Kate Hudson, Diane Keaton, Kate Beckinsale, Claudia Winkleman
 * Mark Perry – providing impressions of Gordon Brown, Robin Cook, Lee Unkrich, Steve Harvey, Dave Thomas, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Keanu Reeves, Saddam Hussein, Jerry Seinfeld, Patrick Bergin, Hugh Laurie, Jason Alexander, Ben Affleck, Willem Dafoe, Bruce Arena, Spider-Man, Michael Howard, Dave Benson Phillips, Keith Wickham, Steve Wright, John Candy, Michael Parkinson, Graham Norton, Matt Damon, Glenn Hoddle, Pierce Brosnan, Gary Haisman, Steve McClaren
 * Terry Klassen – additional voices

Series 4–5

 * Enn Reitel – providing impressions of Tony Blair, Jack Straw, Cuba Gooding Jr., John Prescott, Breckin Meyer, Lyle Lovett, Michael Jackson, Johnny Vegas, Ben Affleck, Jamie Foxx, Anthony McPartlin, Jeremy Clarkson, Michael Howard, John Landis, Will Young, Cuba Gooding Sr., Tom Cruise, George Clooney, Tim Henman, Justin Hawkins, Simon Cowell, Jack Osbourne, Bill Cosby, James Earl Jones, Eddie Murphy, Jacques Chirac, Phil Spencer, Jared Fogle, Gordon Ramsay, Bertie Ahern, David Dimbleby, Peter Andre, Frank Skinner, Des Lynam, Robbie Williams, Gareth Gates, Lawrence Llewelyn-Bowen, Uri Geller, David Blunkett, Charles Kennedy, Liam Neeson, Hugh Laurie, Dick Cheney, Jay Leno, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Conan O'Brien, Prince Philip, Tom Hanks, Prince Edward, Princes William and Harry, Rowan Atkinson, Tim Allen, Brad Pitt, Osama bin Laden, Pope John Paul II
 * Kate O'Sullivan – providing impressions of Cherie Blair, Queen Elizabeth, Camilla Parker Bowles, Julia Roberts, Princess Anne, Geri Halliwell, Victoria Beckham, Anne Robinson, Jordan, Carol “Smiley” Smillie, Natalie Imbruglia, Jennifer Lopez, Madonna, Tina Fey, Emma Roberts, Davina McCall, Kylie Minogue, Sharon Osbourne, Kelly Osbourne, Elizabeth Hurley, Kim Woodburn, Nigella Lawson, Kirstie Allsopp, Jennifer Garner, Aggie MacKenzie, Trinny Woodall, Lisa Ann Walter, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Renée Zellweger, Susannah Constantine, Judy Finnigan, Andre Agassi, Jamie Lee Curtis, Angelina Jolie, Steffi Graf, Helena Bonham Carter, Elaine Hendrix, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Missi Pyle, Judi Dench, Rita Wilson, Coleen McLoughlin, Kate Winslet, Sally Kellerman
 * Lewis MacLeod – providing impressions of Gordon Brown, Chris Eubank, Rolf Harris, Lee Unkrich, Arsenio Hall, George Michael, Richard Gere, David Beckham, Richard Pryor, George W. Bush, Dave Thomas, Prince Charles, John Candy, Trevor McDonald, Steve Irwin, Uri Geller, Bill Gates, Michael Lohan, Richard Fairbrass, Liam Gallagher, Sven-Göran Eriksson, Roy Keane, Paddy Ashdown, Michael Owen, Alex Ferguson, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Vaughan, Richard Madeley, Steve Martin, Louis Walsh, Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Paul Scholes, David Seaman, Neil Armstrong, Kim Jong-il, Chevy Chase, Guy Ritchie, Robin Cook, Saddam Hussein, Declan Donnelly, Ronaldo, Phil Neville, Boris Johnson, Daniel Moder, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Wayne Rooney, Patrick Warburton, Eric Roberts, Dan Aykroyd, Forrest Gump

All series

 * Dave Lamb – providing impressions of John Prescott, David Blunkett, Stephen Byers, Paul Giamatti, Michael Portillo, Charles Kennedy, Dick Cheney, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Prince Philip, Prince Edward, Richard Pryor, Princes William and Harry, Osama bin Laden, Pope John Paul II, Elton John, Graham Norton, Andrew Marr, Michael Palin, Declan Donnelly, Martin Keown, Robin Williams, Paul Gleason, Ronaldo, Phil Neville, Tom Cruise.

title: 2DTV


text:
Talk:PSR B1620−26 b

Methuselah
If "Methuselah" is the planet's "nickname", what is the actual name? -- Wondering simply, Infrogmation 20:11 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that the current official designation would be PSR B1620-26 b. -- 212.127.141.173 00:15 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Evolutionary history
The evolutionary history is an 'educated guess'. A google search for "site:arxiv.org PSR B1620-26" or something similar and browsing through the dozens of articles popping up might help in refining the details. But grammar and spelling need revision (I'm not a native English speaker).
 * -- Caid Raspa 10:01 18 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Article location
As 'Methuselah' is an unofficial nickname, I think this article would be better placed at PSR B1620-26 C, which is the official designation. Any objections to it being moved? Worldtraveller 16:12, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

WP:RM

 * Talk:PSR B1620-26c : PSR B1620-26c → Methuselah (planet) — because Methuselah is the common name, and the one the press uses. 132.205.15.43 03:50, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * COMMENT there are several designations for a star, but the nickname is probably the easiest one to use for the planet. 132.205.15.43 04:04, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * NOTE: Talk:PSR B1620-26c+Talk:51 Pegasi B+Talk:Tau Boötis Ab+Talk:Osiris (planet)+Talk:70 Virginis b — these are the planets where we should come up with a consistent naming convention for. 132.205.15.43 05:06, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * see also Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Astronomical_objects 132.205.15.43 05:09, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose this move, for reasons I've outlined at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Astronomical_objects Worldtraveller 12:44, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 22:05, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sundman
How can the planet PSR B1620-26c remain in stable orbit around two stars for a mere day? There is definitely no computable analytical solution for the generic three body problem. That planet must have propulsion to keep its orbit or it would crash or fly off! Maybe it's the planet described in Stanislaw Lem's Solaris SF novel?
 * The above comment by user:195.70.48.242 at 10:53, 4 May 2005

 * How can there exist a trinary star? (ie. Alpha Centauri), wouldn't that third star have a propulsion system to keep its orbit, or it would crash or fly off! Obviously, since we can have triple star systems, we can have a planet orbit two stars, especially in a wide orbit around a close binary. Talking about three-body problems, here in the Solar System, we have 8 planets, why don't they all crash into each other or fly off then? Or rather, consider the asteroid belt, where orbits are closer together... But we live in a galaxy, and there are millions of star around us... that's not a three-body problem either... 132.205.44.128 05:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Good Article review needed
This article received its Good Article rating on 9 March 2006 from an editor who hearkened back to a kinder, gentler era when it was not outside of norms to just simply plonk down a Good Article tag for no other reason than WP:ILIKEIT. Alas, the standards for retaining this pretty green trinket have tightened over time; in the present regime, someone unassociated with writing this article (a reviewer) should examine the article with respect to the good article criteria and, on the various standards cited, expresses up, down, or neutral sentiments, plus an aggregate sentiment, upon which retaining the pretty little trinket relies.

By posting this remark here, I'm not suggesting that the article has gone bad or presently fails the criteria, but I am noting the absence of a review that is a hallmark of the present process, and, in the fullness of time, a review should be performed on this article. With the absence of a review, this article is a delisting candidate. Note that, for an editor to delist this article, the due-diligence of a good article review is required. Otherwise, how might a delisting editor justify his or her delisting, or offer cogent reasons why the Good Article mark should remain? In either case, anything short of a fair review is unfair to editors who contribute to this article regularly and in good faith. Drop any questions about this on my talk page. Take care — Gosgood 00:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Requested move to PSR B1620-26 b

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below, and lacking any sources cited for the "c" designation. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC) While the scientific papers dealing with this object avoid the designation issue, the SIMBAD astronomical database lists this object as "PSR B1620-26 b" : the "c" designation produces an error when you try to look it up. Since SIMBAD is pretty much the official go-to source for astronomical designations, we should follow that rather than use an unofficial designation. 86.171.72.213 (talk) 18:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment your search is wrong. The correct title is PSR 1620-26 c, that does come up with results on SIMBAD. 70.55.85.122 (talk) 08:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Can you provide the link to the SIMBAD search which comes up with results for the "c" designation? My attempts:
 * Query string: "PSR B1620-26 c" - Identifier not found in the database -
 * Query string: "PSR 1620-26 c" - Identifier not found in the database -
 * Query string: "PSR B1620-26c" - Identifier not found in the database -
 * Query string: "PSR 1620-26c" - Identifier not found in the database -
 * Query string: "PSR B1620-26 b" - Extra-solar planet candidate -
 * Query string: "PSR 1620-26 b" - Extra-solar planet candidate -
 * Query string: "PSR B1620-26b" - Extra-solar planet candidate -
 * Query string: "PSR 1620-26b" - Extra-solar planet candidate -
 * How exactly is my search wrong??? 86.171.72.213 (talk) 10:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Comment 99% of the Google Scholar hits calls this the "PSR B1620-26 planet" 70.55.85.122 (talk) 08:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia also use PSR B1620-26 b! BlueEarth (talk) 22:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME, at minimum. +Hexagon1 (t) 01:14, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Sweeps Review: Pass
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Planets and Moons" articles. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have made several minor corrections throughout the article. Altogether the article is well-written and is still in great shape after its passing in 2006. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. The last section would benefit with more sourcing, especially for some of the claims. I would recommend going through all of the citations and updating the access dates and fixing any dead links. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 08:07, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Oldest planet?
Since there have been many years since the confirmation of the planet and its age, several stars with planets have been discovered which are older than PSR B1620-26 b. The competitors of the oldest planets orbit around stars Rho Indi, HD 142022 A and HD 164922. Can someone confirm if any planets around those stars are as old as their host star? --Artman40 (talk) 15:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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PSR B1620-26 b Planet
Oldest planet in our universe,age-13 billion, wow amazing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashok haldar (talk • contribs) 10:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:PSR B1620−26 b


text:
Marus, Safad

Marus (ماروس) was a Palestinian village in Upper Galilee, 7 km northeast of Safad. In the Roman and medieval period it had Jewish population, and by the 16th century it became entirely Muslim. After a period of desertion, the Ottoman authorities resettled it with Algerian Arabs in the 19th century. It was depopulated in 1948 during the Operation Hiram by the Israeli attacking brigade Sheva' Brigade.

Archaeology
In 1875, Victor Guérin found major ruins here. He described the place as a destroyed Arab village.

In 1881 the PEF's Survey of Western Palestine found here: "Modern and ancient ruins; a spring in a rock-cut cave, ancient foundations of good-sized stones; the foundations of a small rectangular building to the west of the eastern portion of the ruin. Some rock-cut tombs and many caves in hills around."

Starting in 1981 Zvi Ilan excavated in sites next to the 20th century village in different directions. Excavations revealed signs of a long-standing community, and Jewish presence at some periods. An ancient synagogue built in the late 4th or early 5th century, and a related Beth midrash of the 7th century, a cache of coins ranging from the 5th to 9th centuries, a necropolis partly of the 1st century CE, and sherds from Roman to early Ottoman period. There are remains of a defensive wall of large stones, and a hewn moat.

Classical era
Based on the archaeological findings and the name Marus, archaeologist Zvi Ilan suggested Marus is to be identified with the town Meroth. Meroth (Μηρωθ) is mentioned by Josephus as a border town between Jewish Galilee and Tyre in the First Jewish–Roman War, and a place he fortified early in the war. Previous suggestions as to its location included Maroun al-Ras, and Meiron, which show less archaeological parallels. The name possibly derives from מערות (Me'arot, caves).

Middle Ages
Marus is probably mentioned in a Samaritan medieval manuscript, again as the border of Tyre, and in a pilgrimage guide of the 14th century.

Ottoman era
In 1596, Marus was part of the Ottoman Empire, a village in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Jira under the liwa' ("district") of Safad, with a population of 176. It paid taxes on a number of crops, including wheat, barley, and fruits as well as on goats. All the villagers were Muslim.

In the second half of the 19th century Algerian followers of Abdelkader El Djezairi have been defeated by the French in Algeria, and sought refuge in another part of the Ottoman Empire. They were given lands in various locations in Ottoman Syria, including Marus, and the close by Dayshum, Ammuqa, Al-Husayniyya, and Tulayl. The Algerian settlers belonged to the tribe of Awlad bu Alwarath, from Dellys, Algeria.

British Mandate era
In the British Mandate period the village was classified as a hamlet by the Palestine Index Gazetteer. In the 1922 census of Palestine, Marus had a population of 45; all Muslims, increasing in the 1931 census to 59, still all Muslims, in a total of 12 houses.

In the 1945 statistics the population was 80 Muslims, and the total land area was 3,183 dunums. Of this, 108 dunums were plantations and irrigable land, 903 used for cereals, while 8 dunams were built-up (urban) land.

Israeli rule
The village was occupied by the Israeli Defense Force's Sheva' Brigade, during the Operation Hiram at the close of 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

According to the Palestinian historian Walid Khalidi, describing the village land in 1992: "The site contains some olive and fig trees as well as stones from ruined homes. The surrounding land is used for grazing."

title: Marus, Safad


text:
Talk:Red Army Faction

Mention of terrorist organisation in the lead
I am reverting Revision as of 12:50, 16 May 2018 by user:Cloud200, because although the citations that were added show that at least thee media outlets called the Baader-Meinhof Gang a terrorist organisation, they do not say explicitly that "most Western media and literature" does so. To include that statement you will need a reliable source that states as much. Although we (Wikipedia editor) use surveys of reliable sources to decide on the title of an article those same type of surveys can not be used to synthesise statements about "none, few, most, some, all" usage of a phrase by the news media and literature within an article because it is a SYN (pun intended) "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources". -- PBS (talk) 12:29, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

 * @user:Cloud200 your edit (Revision as of 14:55, 12 September 2021) semi revert of my reversion of your edit (by reinstating the text "as well as" and a number of citations in identical format) without discussing it here first is a breach of WP:BRD. So please engage in discussions about your addition.
 * Please read Terrorism
 * "On one point, at least, everyone agrees: terrorism is a pejorative term."
 * Media outlets who wish to convey impartiality may limit their usage of "terrorist" and "terrorism" because they are loosely defined, potentially controversial in nature, and subjective terms.
 * Then please see "Let the facts speak for themselves". The lead already has a citation to the FRD usage, what additional weight is added to the FRD's legal (and moral) position by adding a list of media outlets to the sentence?
 * Using an internet search and selecting a few media outlets that use the word terrorist to describe the Baader-Meinhof Gang and then listing them falls under WP:INDISCRIMINATE collection of facts and such a list is also a breach of WP:NPOV. What you need to do is either find a book that states most news media described them as terrorists, or a terrorist organisation, or reliable sources that writes that other organisations also considered them to be so — for example another government or international organisation.
 * — PBS (talk) 15:36, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The general method for dealing with organisations is to include designation by whatever countries designate them, and in the absence of a formal designation include that the government(s) of the country(s) they were active in considered them to be terrorists, assuming that is the case and can be properly referenced of course. We don't generally include lists of whatever newspapers or other media have said it. FDW777 (talk) 21:46, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * you reverted a WP:RS edit that was introduced after a heated discussion here and survived 3 years being a well-sourced consensus description of RAF designation. The fact, supported by WP:RS sources, is that most people in widely defined "West" considered RAF to be a terrorist organisation driven by USSR, and rightly so because they applied terrorist methods using weapons and logistic support supplied by USSR. A minority on far-left used euphemisms like "revolutionary", "armed struggle" to describe bomb attacks on civilians, and your cherry-picking from Terrorism doesn't really change much here. You didn't like the general character of "most" and used it as a pretext to raise WP:SYNTH claim, so I proposed a more specific statement even though I don't think it's necessary. If you prefer academic sources, feel free to pick up from Google Scholar, there's plenty of them. Cloud200 (talk) 09:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not against highlighting in the lead that this group were considered a "terrorist organisation". If you look back through the history of this article you will see (Revision as of 12:37, 3 August 2013) that it was me who added the mention of "terrorist organization" to the first paragraph within the WP:TERRORIST guidance.
 * @User:Cloud200 "is that most people in widely defined 'West' considered RAF to be a terrorist organisation driven by USSR" and your source for this is? [as most people in the West have never heard of the Red Army Faction]. You have not addressed point of WP:INDISCRIMINATE collection of facts, and therefore that such a list is a breach of WP:NPOV. Selecting a similar list from Google Scholar or from any other survey conducted by Wikipedia editor will not remove this as an issue. Further you have not addressed User:FDW777 point, with which (as you can see by my article edit mentioned at the start of this post) I agree. -- PBS (talk) 12:14, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * What about political backgrounds ?
 * Old RAF which obviously indicates a connection to USSR Red Army.
 * Ala a terrorist faction.PBS Zweite (talk) 16:07, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * "Green RAF"
 * has been at least since 2011 (“Green Army Faction”)
 * About what ? They think. Young people in Germany. If they are caught, they will be subjected to punishment. The same torture and torment. Dozens of years will come!
 * ( Главный) RAF Commander, Hadjabekovitsch , - ended his career. In the torture chamber.
 * RAF women - executed with nerve agents, - "Novitschok".
 * What will happen to you??? In case of arrest by the police.91.183.159.198 (talk) 17:29, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Alleged official Stasi / GDR support
Quoting from the source in the article (emphasis added):

 * The evidence that is not circumstantial is grounded in three sources: internal documents of the Ministry for State Security relating to the support of terroristic organizations by the GDR, listed under the code-names Stern I and Stern II; the court depositions of former officers of the Ministry's specialist 'anti-terror' department devoted to RAF members and grand jury proceedings against these officers in the Federal Republic to see if there was probable cause to charge them with support of terrorism; and, finally, the testimony of the 'retired' RAF members, ten in all, who were swept back to West Germany after eight to ten years of clandestine life in the GDR as part of the backwash of reunification.
 * The first category is not publicly available except in hearsay form, as reported by journalists claiming to have had access to the files and generally adding in a pastiche of events already reported elsewhere. The second is considerably more reliable, as all but one of the officers of the terror department have been examined, and their testimony can be compared against each other and the files in the possession of the federal investigating authorities — although these files are not in the public domain. The third must be viewed on a case-by-case basis, bearing in mind that the former members have an interest in minimizing their own roles or shielding others not yet apprehended or sentenced.

This is a 1993 article, so it's conceivable that more concrete information (i.e. not self-interested parties making self-serving claims) has been made public in the past 30 years -- but in the absence of such, I'm adding a Dubious tag for the claim in the lead: it's wildly inflammatory and salacious, and readers should be aware that its entire "non-circumstantial" basis is hearsay repetition of conjecture about a codenamed group mentioned in sealed documents.

Thanks! 2600:1702:6D1:28B0:B8D8:1B0F:6171:5DDD (talk) 02:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

 * This is not the only source for RAF being helped by Eastern European communist security services in general, not only Stasi. There are sources for RAF members being smuggled through the Eastern German border into hiding in communist Poland for extensive periods of time. There's also reports of Putin being involved in Stasi-RAF cooperation as KGB supervisor:
 * "By the end of the seventies, when the West German police stepped up a campaign of arrests, the Stasi began providing safe haven in the East to members of the group. “They harbored not just one but 10 of them. They lived in cookie-cutter buildings around Dresden, Leipzig and East Berlin,” said Franz Sedelmayer, a German security consultant who later worked with Putin in St. Petersburg. The Stasi had provided them with false identities, and also ran training camps."

 * Evidence for RAF cooperation with Stasi, SB and KGB is generous and found in archives of many ex-communist countries. I don't see anything "inflammatory" in this: you have an organization that calls themselves "Red Army Faction" and you're surprised they're run by Soviets? How otherwise they would have unlimited access to weapons, explosives and safe-houses in communist countries? Cloud200 (talk) 11:36, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If the evidence is generous, then by all means add some sources that support the claim to the article. Last night I did find / link the source for the specific claim you are referring to while checking the German-language article (which, incidentally, doesn't seem to make the far-reaching claim of "official support", but I admittedly just did a keyword search for Stasi / MfS because my German is weak).
 * If everywhere the article made / qualified the claim with "in the 1980s the Stasi harbored ex-members and was suspected to have provided training for a specific late-1980s operation” that seems pretty unimpeachable, but it also seems pretty clear that would spoil the intent of including the claim at all, namely creating the impression in the reader that the RAF were from their inception literal puppets of the socialist government(s).
 * The aforementioned source also states explicitly that the Stasi were monitoring the group and viewed them with consternation during the 1970s, which also deserves mention if we want to avoid leaving readers with that mistaken impression. I'd be in favor of to put all of the actual evidence / claims into their section, where it can be properly contextualized, but today it's pretty hopelessly garbled: e.g. the section that I fixed up last night was "RAF since the 1980s", but it ends with talking about the 1978 "exfiltration", sourced to a Polish-language article. I know the 1978 escape was covered in Aust's English-language book, but I son't see any reason to expand / fact-check that anachronistic aside that was clearly just shoehorned in to build the "soviet puppeteers" case, without regard for the readability of the article.
 * I'm not an expert and wouldn't be shocked if there are better sources available -- but I'm not seeing anything in the article that would support the broader claim of official state support for the group in general, but an uncritical a reader of the article today could certainly come away with that impression.
 * And that should be avoided, right? ShadyNorthAmericanIPs (talk) 17:16, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding today's edit and the sensationally-titled Politico article "Did Vladimir Putin Support Anti-Western Terrorists as a Young KGB Officer? Putin has sworn his time as a KGB officer in Dresden was uneventful. There’s a lot of reason to doubt that claim", this line from the end after breathlessly reporting an ex-member's assertions as fact, is even worse than the 1993 academic source that I referred to in the first post:
 * The former Red Army Faction member’s story is near-impossible to verify.
 * But even if we follow Politico's lead and take that as sufficiently reliable to repeat (though here in an encyclopedia article), AFAICT the claims are again restricted to the post-1980 era of the group, so the unqualified claim is still unsourced and dubious, and IMO still pretty clearly intended to paint the group as "puppets" from their inception. Put another way, it's like adding "Members of the band have attracted controversy for using racial slurs" in the lede of the Grateful Dead article: nominally true, but obviously intended to create an untrue impression.
 * I hope that clears up what I'm trying to get at with the Dubious tag, and why this Politico article doesn't resolve it. Thanks! ShadyNorthAmericanIPs (talk) 21:28, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Our job is not to repeat journalist investigation of a former RAF member only because you want to whitewash RAF and create an impression they were ideologically pure revolutionary group rather than KGB puppet. Politico is WP:RS and this is why it's referred in the article. Your artificial limiting scope to post-1980 is also not justified by any sources. Bettina Röhl, daughter of Ulrike Meinhof, wrote a whole book about her early experiences with the Baader and RAF circles and in general the whole community was filled with Soviet influences from the very beginning. Cloud200 (talk) 07:31, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The journalists I was repeating were the sources given in the article; I believe the quotations are relevant because they show that these sources don't back up the broad claim being made -- I'm not disputing Politico's reliability: they even make it clear in the headline that the article's insinuations are disputed, rather than established fact. But even taking them as gospel, they absolutely have nothing to do with the RAF "from the beginning".
 * As to whether a daughter remembering "Soviet influences" in her early childhood is sufficient to claim that the KGB was puppeteering the RAF from the start, I'll gladly look at the source when it gets added, but from your choice of words it also sounds pretty dubious?
 * Regarding motivations, the fact that you're reading this as "whitewashing the RAF", as opposed to "tagging a dubiously-sourced claim that is clearly intended to tarnish socialist governments by association to an infamous terrorist group" is moot to this discussion, but maybe worth reflecting on?
 * ShadyNorthAmericanIPs (talk) 14:38, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't quite get your last postulate - is the association between KGB and RAF is more tarnishing for "socialist governments" running KGB or for RAF? I personally don't think it's "tarnishing" for any of them: RAF was a terrorist organisation, which is tainting on its own. KGB ran many terrorist organisations, including RAF, PLO and performed hundreds of assassinations abroad, so how could it be "tarnished" by association with their puppet? Cloud200 (talk) 16:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for derailing the thread by trying to find an antonym for "whitewashing" and landing on "tarnishing". An uncharitable reader might take that to mean that I thought they were "untarnished" otherwise, which is clearly not the case. My fault! I'll try to do better, by sticking to the point:
 * The phrasing of the dubious claim is clearly creating the impression -- which you evidently share? -- that the RAF was an officially-sanctioned organ of actual, UN-member socialist state(s), and the current sources do not back that up. If the intent was merely to document the connections that did actually exist between late-era RAF members and the Stasi or other intelligence organizations, it should not be phrased in a way that would propagate this misconception.
 * Since I'm not an expert on this topic I'm not going to try to write that nuanced section; the best I can contribute is a tiny warning to readers / editors that the claim in the article today goes well beyond the scope of the source that it's citing. By all means if there is a RS that does support the broader claim, add that -- but "Meinhof's daughter detected Soviet influence as a child" or "the KGB is documented to have done even worse things than the RAF" don't sound promising.
 * 2600:1702:6D1:28B0:81EF:A604:56F1:F7BF (talk) 19:29, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but the idea of RAF being an "officially sanctioned organ" is an absurd you made up, and yes, that's is derailing the discussion. Of course it was not "official". RAF was a terrorist organisation covertly curated, controlled and supported by Stasi and SB under KGB umbrella, just like they curated PLO or Carlos "Jackal". And this status is entirely supported by the quoted sources. Cloud200 (talk) 21:29, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The unqualified "received support from Stasi and other Eastern Bloc security services" currently invites the inference -- that you seem to have drawn as well -- that socialist governments were in fact puppeteering the RAF throughout their existence, which absolutely is not supported by the source currently cited in the article: one of the sources (if not perhaps the Politico article) explicitly stated that through the 1970s they were being monitored as a threat, not as assets -- and that's certainly not the impression one would get from the existing text.
 * This broad misinterpretation is invited by its inclusion in the introduction to the article, immediately after an uncontroversial statement that does apply to the group in general; it would be like saying "Ted Kaczynski was motivated by a disgust at modern technology's effect on society, and he received training from the University of Michigan" -- both parts are literally true and well-documented by reliable sources, but juxtaposing them is obviously intended to convey a false impression that itself is not supportable.
 * If there is a source that does support that broader inference, let's add that. But it's misleading as it stands today -- even if the broader inference is true, that's absolutely not what the cited source says. Alternatively, we could change the text to be less misleading about what the source actually supports -- but it seems like that would defeat the purpose of including it in the intro in the first place.
 * ShadyNorthAmericanIPs (talk) 16:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Ted Kaczynski received education from UoM prior to his terrorist activities. RAF received weapons and explosives from KGB right as it conducted its attacks, and was even evacuated by them to their safe houses to avoid prosecution in Germany. I hope you do see the slight difference in the level of engagement of both institutions here. Cloud200 (talk) 07:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the confusion, I'm not trying to draw an equivalence between the Stasi and the University of Michigan -- I was trying to pick a case where there was no question of a correlation between the two halves of the statement, so that litigating the degree of connection could be avoided, to instead emphasize the type of misleading juxtaposition.
 * But since we're here again, as far as I can tell from the sources in the article, this support came after the attacks that make up the bulk of the rest of the article, I thought my earlier analogy already illustrated why I find the content of the existing text misleading:
 * it's like adding "Members of the band have attracted controversy for using racial slurs" in the lede of the Grateful Dead article: nominally true, but obviously intended to create an untrue impression.
 * This example would be misleading because the member with the racial slur controversy was not in the band for most of its history, just as the events in that Politico source came after most of the events documented in this article.
 * Again, if there are reliable sources that document that these intelligence services had a comparable degree of influence on the group as "the perceived failure of their parents' generation to confront Germany's Nazi past", let's include that source in the lead and remove the dubious tag. But I don't think you've even asserted that such a source exists, let alone cite one?
 * If not, it would be less misleading to split the claim into a separate sentence that more faithfully represents the facts that are in the cited source.
 * ShadyNorthAmericanIPs (talk) 16:43, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Dubious unsourced attack
Earlier this month an IP user removed |removed the unsourced 1981-08-07 attack from the article. That got rolled back, and I added a citation needed tag; that in turn led to |a few odd edits (incl an unverifiable Ref tag) by @Dergeistertutanota, but no actual source.

As far as I can tell, the only places on the internet that reference this attack seem to be scraped from (some version of) this article; there is abundant English-language press about the other attacks in that period, but no references to an attack on US personnel in Kaiserslautern that day, let alone one matching this extremely detailed description.

I'm inclined to just remove it again, but I'd be curious where this even came from. ShadyNorthAmericanIPs (talk) 22:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Faction or Fraction?
Red Army Faction is the usual English translation of the German Rote Armee Fraktion, but in my opinion it is not true to the original meaning. It's a mistranslation.

A faction, in English, is "a group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a larger group."

A fraction, in English, is "a portion", "a part of a whole".

The same happens in other languages, such as Italian (fazione, frazione), Spanish (facción, fracción), French (faction, fraction), Portuguese (fação, fração) and Dutch (factie, fractie), but not in German, which has only one word with the two meanings, Fraktion.

In this case Fraktion should be translated as Fraction in English, not Faction, which would suggest a contentious minority or a splinter group.JBarreto (talk) 16:19, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Red Army Faction