text:
1. FC Kaiserslautern

1. Fußball-Club Kaiserslautern e. V., also known as '''1. FCK, FCK, FC Kaiserslautern , K'lautern or colloquially Lautern''' , is a German sports club based in Kaiserslautern, Rhineland-Palatinate. In addition to football, the club also operates in several other sports.

On 2 June 1900, Germania 1896 and FG Kaiserslautern merged to create FC 1900. In 1909, the club went on to join FC Palatia (founded in 1901) and FC Bavaria (founded in 1902) to form FV 1900 Kaiserslautern. In 1929, they merged with SV Phönix to become FV Phönix-Kaiserslautern, before finally taking on their current name in 1933.

As a founding member of the Bundesliga, FCK played from 1963 to 1996 uninterrupted in the top division. They have won four German championships, two DFB-Pokals, and one DFL-Supercup, and rank among the most successful football clubs in Germany, currently occupying eleventh place in the all-time Bundesliga table. The club's international performances include reaching the Champions League quarter-finals in 1999, as well as playing in the UEFA Cup semi-finals twice. Their first league title in the Bundesliga era was won in 1991. Kaiserslautern then won the German championship in the 1997–98 season, becoming the only team ever to win as a newly promoted team. After a six-year spell in the second tier, in 2018 they were relegated to the 3. Liga for the first time. In 2022, Kaiserslautern was promoted again to the 2. Bundesliga after winning the promotion playoff match.

Since 1920, Kaiserslautern's stadium has been the Fritz-Walter-Stadion, named in 1985 after Fritz Walter, the captain of the West Germany national team who won the World Cup in 1954. Walter spent his entire career at Kaiserslautern.

Early years through World War II
Two of the club's predecessors, Bavaria and FC 1900 Kaiserslautern, were part of the Westkreis-Liga (I) when this league was formed in 1908, with the latter winning the first league. The new FV Kaiserslautern finished as runners-up in the league in 1910 and 1912. The team reached tier one in the new Kreisliga Saar in 1919, the Kreisliga Pfalz in 1920 and the Bezirksliga Rhein-Saar in 1931. Throughout the 1930s, they spent time in both the Bezirksliga and the upper level Gauliga Südwest, one of sixteen top flight divisions formed in the re-organization of German football under Nazi Germany.

The club's performance improved after 1939, winning the Gauliga Südwest/Staffel Saarpfalz title, but losing the overall division title to Staffel Mainhessen winners Kickers Offenbach. In the 1941–42 season the Gauliga Südwest was split into the Gauliga Hessen-Nassau and the Gauliga Westmark, and Kaiserslautern took the Westmark title, going on to play for the first time in the national final rounds. They were knocked out 3–9 by eventual champions Schalke 04.

The team finished last in their division in 1944. The following year saw the collapse of league play due to the effects of the Second World War.

Postwar play

After the war, southwestern Germany was part of the occupation zone held by the French. Teams there were organized into northern and southern divisions, and played to determine which of them would join the new Oberliga. French authorities were slow to loosen their control over play in their zones of occupation, and, in the Saarland in particular, teams in the French areas took longer to join the re-established Germany national league than in other parts of the country. 1. FC Kaiserslautern resumed play in the Oberliga Südwest in 1945, and finished the season just one point behind 1. FC Saarbrücken. The next season, they won the Gruppe Nord in 1947. FCK's Fritz and Ottmar Walter scored 46 goals between them, more than any other entire team.

Success in the 1950s and entry to the Bundesliga
This marked the beginning of the club's dominance of the Oberliga Südwest as they went on to win the division title eleven times over the next twelve seasons. FCK advanced to Germany's first post-war national final in 1948, but lost 1–2 to 1. FC Nürnberg.

Kaiserslautern became a presence on the national scene through the early 1950s, winning their first German championship in 1951 with a 2–1 victory of their own, this time over Preußen Münster. They won a second title in 1953, followed by two losing final appearances in 1954 and 1955. The club also sent five players to the national side for the 1954 FIFA World Cup, which West Germany won in a final sometimes referred to as The Miracle of Bern.

Kaiserslautern lost 0–2 to Werder Bremen in the 1961 DFB-Pokal final. The side recovered its form in time to again win their division on the eve of the formation in 1963 of the Bundesliga, Germany's new professional football league. This secured them one of the 16 places in the new top flight circuit. They were German Cup runners-up in 1972, 1976, and 1981, and were UEFA Cup semi-finalists in 1982 (losing narrowly to eventual winners IFK Göteborg). The club finally won the domestic Cup in 1990, and followed up this achievement the following season with their first Bundesliga championship. Both times the manager was Karl-Heinz Feldkamp.

1996–2004
1. FCK won a second German Cup in 1996, but were relegated to 2. Bundesliga with a 16th-place finish just one week before the Cup final. At the time, Kaiserslautern was one of only four of the original 16 teams that had played in each Bundesliga season since the inception of the league, having never been relegated. This group also included Eintracht Frankfurt (who went down in the same season), 1. FC Köln (down in 1998), and "the Dinosaur", Hamburger SV, whose spell ended in 2018.

FCK won promotion from the 2. Bundesliga at the first attempt in 1997, and immediately went on to win the national championship under veteran coach Otto Rehhagel. They also played in the 1998–99 UEFA Champions League, where they topped a group comprising PSV, Benfica and HJK Helsinki, but were eliminated in the quarter-finals by compatriots Bayern Munich, who also took back the domestic title (FCK finished 5th).

Despite coming close to a UEFA Cup final in 2001, Kaiserslautern was close to bankruptcy, and at the centre of a public controversy. The club's management – Jürgen Friedrich, Robert Wieschemann and Gerhard Herzog – were forced out. A new team president, Rene C. Jäggi, sold the Fritz-Walter-Stadion to an entity owned by the Land Rheinland-Pfalz and the city of Kaiserslautern, while a new coach, Erik Gerets, led the team out of last place and saved them from relegation.

At the start of the 2003–04 season, the club received a three-point penalty imposed by the German Football Association for financial misconduct. Gerets was fired and replaced by Kurt Jara. Jara was unpopular with the FCK faithful for his defensive football philosophy. Jara quit the position before the season ended, citing irreconcilable differences with club management.

2005–present
In 2005, Michael Henke, who had served as long-time assistant to Ottmar Hitzfeld, became coach. FCK was initially successful, but later returned to bottom of the table. Henke was fired, and FCK alumnus Wolfgang Wolf took up the trainer's role. Wolf brought in many young, home-grown players, but at the end of the 2005–06 season, FCK were once again relegated to the 2. Bundesliga after a nine-year stay in the top flight. They finished the 2006–07 season in sixth place in the 2. Bundesliga, seven points out of the promotion places.

On 20 May 2007, the club announced the Norwegian manager Kjetil Rekdal, formerly with Belgian side Lierse, as their new head coach. Rekdal took over on July 1st. After only three wins in 19 games, the club was in 16th place and Rekdal was sacked and replaced by Milan Šašić in February 2008. In April 2008, the club hired Stefan Kuntz as chairman, and with new leadership they saved themselves from relegation to the new 3. Liga with a win over already promoted 1. FC Köln on the final day of the 2007–08 season.

Šašić lasted almost the entire 2008–09 season, but was dismissed on 4 May 2009 after a run of poor results in the second half of the season, and three days after a 1–5 defeat by Hansa Rostock. Alois Schwartz was named interim coach, and he managed the club to a seventh-place finish on the season. The club eventually hired Marco Kurz as head coach.

Under Kurz, the club secured promotion to the 1. Bundesliga on 25 April 2010, after four years in the second league. At the start of the 2010–11 season, newly promoted 1. FCK had a promising two-straight wins, including a 2–0 victory over the previous year's Bundesliga champions, Bayern Munich. However, after a 2–1 defeat at Mainz 05 and a 5–0 drubbing at eventual season champions Borussia Dortmund, the club began to struggle, and fell back to just ahead of the relegation zone. The club then had a poor start to the second half of the season – dropping into the relegation zone for several weeks – but managed to coalesce, and, eventually, earned seven victories in their last ten matches, recording only two defeats and a single draw. They ended this run with four straight victories, to finish the season at the seventh place.

The following season, 2011–12, the club finished in the bottom 18th place, and after two seasons in the top flight, were relegated to the 2. Bundesliga. They remained in that division until 2018, being relegated to the third tier for the first time in club history.

In March 2022, a U.S. consortium consisting of Paul Conway, Chien Lee, Michael Kalt, Krishen Sud and Randy Frankel bought 10% of the club.

On 24 May 2022, four years after their first relegation into Germany's third division, Kaiserslautern were promoted back to the 2. Bundesliga. In the 2023-24 season, Kaiserslauten made a surprising DFB-Pokal run, winning against fourth division side FC Rot-Weiß Koblenz, Bundesliga side 1. FC Köln, second division side 1. FC Nürnberg and third division side 1. FC Saarbrücken to reach the DFB-Pokal final, the first in 21 years.

Reserve team
The club's reserve team, 1. FC Kaiserslautern II, played as 1. FC Kaiserslautern Amateure until 2005. It made a first appearance in the tier three Amateurliga Südwest in 1957. It won a league championship in 1960 and 1968 but was not entitled to promotion to professional level. In 1978, when the Oberliga Südwest was introduced the team qualified for this new league which it would belong to, with the exception of the 1982–83 season, until 1992. It won promotion back to the Oberliga in 1994 and became a yo-yo team between this league and the Regionalliga above, a league newly introduced in 1994. The team was relegated from the latter in 1996, 2000, 2004 and 2007 but each time won promotion back to the league. Between 2012 and 2017, the club played in the Regionalliga Südwest.

The team has also won the Southwestern Cup on three occasions, in 1979, 1997 and 2008. Through this competition, 1. FC Kaiserslautern II qualified for the DFB-Pokal on three occasions, reaching the second round twice and being drawn against their own first team in 1997–98 where they lost 5–0.

Recent seasons
P = Played; W = Win; D = Draw; L = Loss; F = Goals for; A = Goals against; GD = Goal difference; Pts = Points; Cup = DFB-Pokal; CWC = European Cup Winners' Cup; EL = UEFA Europa League; CL = UEFA Champions League.
 * Key

– = Not attended; 1R = 1st round; 2R = 2nd round; 3R = 3rd round; 1/8 = Round of sixteen; QF = Quarter-finals; SF = Semi-finals.

League

 * German football championship
 * Winners: 1951, 1953, 1990–91, 1997–98
 * Runners-up: 1948, 1954, 1955, 1993–94
 * 2. Bundesliga
 * Winners: 1996–97, 2009–10

Cup

 * DFB-Pokal
 * Winners: 1989–90, 1995–96
 * Runners-up: 1960–61, 1971–72, 1975–76, 1980–81, 2002–03, 2023–24
 * DFB-Supercup
 * Winners: 1991

Regional

 * Oberliga Südwest
 * Winners (11): 1946–47, 1947–48, 1948–49, 1949–50, 1950–51, 1952–53, 1953–54, 1954–55, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1962–63
 * Runners-up: 1945–46, 1957–58
 * Gauliga Westmark
 * Winners: 1941–42
 * Westkreis-Liga
 * Winners: 1908–09
 * Runners-up: 1909–10, 1911–12
 * Southwestern Cup
 * Winners: 2018–19, 2019–20

Youth

 * German under-19 championship
 * Winners: 1991–92
 * Runners-up: 1983–84, 1990–91, 1992–93, 2010–11
 * German under-17 championship
 * Winners: 1982–83
 * Runners-up: 1991–92

Stadium

FCK plays its home fixtures in the Fritz Walter Stadion first built in 1920. In 1985 the stadium and the adjacent street were named for the player who brought the club to prominence after World War II. The facility is built on the Betzenberg, literally "Mount Betze", a steep sandstone hill.

The stadium has a capacity of 49,850 and was a venue at the 2006 World Cup, hosting four preliminary round and one group of 16-round matches. The facility underwent a major refurbishment for the tournament with addition of new grandstands and a roof.

Club culture

Kaiserslautern's Fritz-Walter-Stadion has long been a feared away venue given the rabid ferocity of Kaiserslautern fans: the most faithful of these supporters are located in the stadium's "Westkurve" (Westside, literally "West Curve", since the stands used to be shaped in a semicircle behind the goals). Most famously, Bayern Munich once lost a match here in a charged atmosphere by a score of 7–4 after leading 4–1 at the 58th minute.

The club has friendly ties to FC Metz, 1860 Munich, VfB Stuttgart, Werder Bremen and Kilmarnock F.C. of Scotland and are bitter rivals of Waldhof Mannheim and Bayern Munich. They also have lesser local rivalries with Eintracht Frankfurt and, more recently, with Mainz 05 and Karlsruher SC.

Coaching staff

 * }

Other sports
1. FC Kaiserslautern also has sports departments in athletics, basketball, boxing, handball, headis, hockey, running, and triathlon.

Basketball
The basketball department was founded in 1952. The seniors team played in the second German Basketball league from 2002 until 2007. In the 2014–15 season, both the male and female senior teams play in the fourth division.

Boxing
The boxing department exists since the times of FV Kaiserslautern. Most prominent athletes are Silver medalist of the 1964 Summer Olympics Emil Schulz, Bronze medalist of the 1988 Summer Olympics Reiner Gies and, before his professional career, later European heavyweight champion Karl Mildenberger.

Wheelchair basketball
The wheelchair basketball team FCK Rolling Devils was founded in 2009 as a part of the club's basketball department and turned into a separate department in 2013. Since 2014, the Rolling Devils play in the 1st German Wheelchair Basketball Federal League. In July 2015, the outsourcing of Rolling Devils into an independent club with 1.FC Kaiserslautern as name sponsor took place and the FCK department was suspended at the annual meeting of 1.FC Kaiserslautern in December 2015.

title: 1. FC Kaiserslautern


text:
Mannerheim (family)

The Mannerheim family (originally Marhein) also spelled von Mannerheim is the name of a prominent noble family of German origin, which was part of Finnish, Swedish, and German nobility.

Baronial lineage
(number 18 in the register of the Finnish House of Nobility)

The family descends from a German businessman and mill owner, Henrik Marhein (1618–1667), who emigrated to Gävle, Sweden. His son, Augustin Marhein, was raised to the nobility in Sweden in 1693. He was introduced to the Riddarhuset as a member of the Untitled Nobility (adliga ätter), being introduced under number 1260, and with the surname Mannerheim. His son, an artillery colonel and a mill supervisor, Johan Augustin Mannerheim (1706–1778), was raised to the rank of Baron at the same time with his brother in 1768. Johan Augustin was introduced in 1776 under number 277. His son Baron Carl Erik Mannerheim came to Finland in the latter part of 18th century and the family was immatriculated in Finland in 1818.

Comital lineage
(number 8 in the register of the Finnish House of Nobility)

Baron Carl Erik Mannerheim (1759–1837) was the son of Baron Johan Augustin Mannerheim. Born in Säter, Carl Erik was part of the Anjala League, an opposition movement during the reign of Gustav III of Sweden. However, he received an amnesty and emigrated to Finland, where he purchased Louhisaari manor in 1795. In 1805, he was elected Chairman of the Finnish Economic Society. At the beginning of Russian rule in Finland, he was chairman of the delegation accounting for matters in Finland to Tsar Alexander I.

He served as Vice-President of the Senate of Finland's Economic Department (i.e., de facto head of government), and Governor of Turku and Pori provinces. He was also first Major of the Åbo province infantry regiment. He was given the hereditary title of Count (in Finnish Kreivi, in Swedish Greve) in 1824 and introduced in 1825. The title is inherited by the eldest son.

The family was reintroduced in the Swedish nobility in 1947 and 1953.

Members

 * Anna Maria Mannerheim, married in 1863 to Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld
 * Augustin Marhein
 * Carl Erik Mannerheim (1759–1837) - Finnish soldier, statesman and member of the Senate of Finland
 * Carl Gustaf Mannerheim (1797–1854) - Finnish entomologist and governor
 * Carl Robert Mannerheim (1835–1914) - Finnish aristocrat and businessman
 * Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim (1867–1951) - field marshal, soldier, statesman, and President of Finland; grandson of the entomologist
 * Eva Mannerheim-Sparre
 * Henrik Marhein
 * Johan Augustin Mannerheim
 * Sophie Mannerheim

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Mannerheim (family)


text:
Talk:Chapel

Untitled
Sorry, Hepahaestos, I'm afraid we just clashed! I renamed Chapels to Chapels of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because that's what it was about, but while I was doing that, you quite reasonably moved the text of Chapels to Chapel. That means we now have a useless, empty article with a very long name. I hope someone will come along and delete it. -- Heron

 * BTW - The corect term for the structure in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is meetinghouse, with a chapel normally being only one of several rooms in the meetinghouse. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 16:41, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

This article had a strongly UK Catholic POV; I'm hoping that after some changes it retains those contributions while opening the terminology of the word to other uses with Protestantism. Deadsalmon 06:07, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

The picture of catholic small wayside chapel in a village in Malta of historcal importance was remove in an unacceptable manner. Maltesedog 06:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Church hall
Is this the same thing as a church hall? What is a church hall? (I do not mean hall church). Punctured Bicycle 05:01, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * no, a church hall is usually a building (or area within a single building containing the church too) which the church uses to hold various social functions, it's often let out to other local groups during the week. Often fulfils a function similar to a village hall.  David Underdown 09:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Punctured Bicycle 17:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Christian Orthodox?
Why no mention of the oldest Christian chapels, the Christian Orthodox ones? Predates Catholic and certainly Protestant chapels. There is often a bias and/or ignorance of the original Church (Byzantium) and it's history in the United States and, to a lesser extant, Western Europe. In the spirit of objectivity I think the Orthodox history should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.225.54 (talk) 17:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Cathedral of the Pines
I think we should have an article on the Cathedral of the Pines, and list it here as a notable chapel; any thoughts? J S Ayer (talk) 01:15, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Irish
"The word also appears in the Irish language in the Middle Ages, as Welsh people came with the Norman and Old English invaders to the island of Ireland. While the traditional Irish word for church was eaglais (derived from ecclesia), a new word, séipéal (from cappella), came into usage."

I'm not really sure how the above paragraph is relevant to the history of chapels. And, if it is, the process of transmission isn't very clear. What have Welsh people got to do with it? I would suggest this is removed as an unnecessary tangent to the article. If someone is particularly attached to the idea of its inclusion, it needs clarifying and citations adding. Psammead (talk) 20:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Chapel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509160507/http://www.churchsociety.org/aboutus/managed/Properties_StJamesChurch.htm to http://www.churchsociety.org/aboutus/managed/Properties_StJamesChurch.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:58, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Internet chapel
An anonymous IP has been repeatedly adding text about "internet chapels" on this article and other places, such as internet church, church service, multifaith space, and others. The early edits seemed to be a clear case of spamming links to a particular website (see this edit, for example) which I believe the anon IP is associated with. The more recent edits, while not explicitly spammy, still appear to be a coatrack for the website and concept. Doing a quick google search, I can find only two instances of "internet chapel" (the search is a bit muddled due to false hits about internet services in areas with names that include "chapel"). I do not see evidence that "internet chapel" is a notable enough concept or neologism, which is different than the concept of "internet church" or "cyberchurch". If the concept is worth mentioning, please provide reliable sources to help ensure this is not a case of WP:UNDUE or WP:COI. --FyzixFighter (talk) 21:34, 25 December 2019

 * There are references to internet chapels beyond google searches, which is not valid and reliable. While there are disagreements on substance as to whom is connected to what, there is an increase in the use of the internet for chapel work. The most valid and reliable outcome is to indicate the use of the internet for chapel services. The continuing edit of an edit is similar to peer-review in academics, which is clearly not going to happen in this case. However, for a consensus, it appears we can lead to an "internet" use for chapels and that will suffice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.175.21.168 (talk) 02:25, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

 * Um, no I would not say we have a consensus as such. I would agree with you that the concept of internet church is notable and well documented in reliable sources and online religious services are a subset of what it includes. What we don't have are reliable sources that call any part of this an "internet chapel" or "internet chapel work" - "religious services", yes, but I have not seen any reliable sources that support any variations of the text you have repeatedly proposed. Hence, WP:UNDUE applies and even though at least one example of an "internet chapel" exists, we don't generally include it because the concept has received no coverage in reliable sources. Can you provide reliable, secondary sources that support the text you would like to add? This would help greatly in resolving the editing disagreement. --FyzixFighter (talk) 12:59, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Ok, it is time to stop. There are multiple referenced sources that support my position. This entire dialogue supports my position that Wikipedia is valid, but not always reliable. I wish you the best in your quest for your academic pursuits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.175.21.168 (talk) 14:39, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Father of the chapel
In the UK and Australasia, a trade union in the related fields of printing and journalism is referred to as a chapel, for historical reasons which, even in the admission of those who can be expected to know a good deal about the subject, are unclear. And the shop steward in such an organisation is, for the same obscure reasons, known as the father (or, as the case may be, the mother) of the chapel. Given that this article covers uses of the word rather than purely discussions regarding the substance of the term chapel, mention ought at least to be made of this sense, and the stub article Father of the chapel.

Nuttyskin (talk) 14:32, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chapel


text:
Saint Louis Cemetery

Saint Louis Cemetery (Cimetière Saint-Louis, Cementerio de San Luis) is the name of three Catholic cemeteries in New Orleans, Louisiana. Most of the graves are above-ground vaults constructed in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Cemeteries No. 1 and No. 2 are included on the National Register of Historic Places and the Louisiana African American Heritage Trail.

Saint Louis No. 1

St. Louis Cemetery No. 1 is the oldest and among the most prominent cemeteries in New Orleans. It was opened in 1789, replacing the city's older St. Peter Cemetery (Cimetière St. Peter; no longer in existence) as the main burial ground when the city was redesigned after a fire in 1788.

It is 8 blocks from the Mississippi River, on the north side of Basin Street, one block beyond the inland border of the French Quarter. It borders the Iberville housing project. It has been in continuous use since its foundation. The nonprofit group Save Our Cemeteries and commercial businesses offer tours for a fee.

Notable New Orleanians buried in St. Louis No. 1 include Etienne de Boré, a wealthy pioneer of the sugar industry and the first mayor of New Orleans; Homer Plessy, the plaintiff from the landmark 1896 Plessy v. Ferguson Supreme Court decision on civil rights. Ernest N. "Dutch" Morial, the first African-American mayor of New Orleans was interred there in 1989. Subsequently, Morial's family built a new family tomb at St. Louis Cemetery No. 3, and Morial's body was reinterred there in late 2014. Notable creole author and educator Alexander Dimitry is buried at Saint Louis Cemetery Number One. Most of the Dimitry family is interred there including; Andrea Dimitry and his wife Marianne Celeste Dragon. Marianne Céleste Dragon was the subject of a famous portrait painted by José Salazar.

The renowned Voodoo priestess Marie Laveau is believed to be interred in the Glapion family crypt. Other notable New Orleanians here include Bernard de Marigny, the French-Creole aristocrat and politician who founded both the Faubourg Marigny and Mandeville, Louisiana; Barthelemy Lafon, the architect and surveyor who allegedly became one of Jean Lafitte's pirates; and Paul Morphy, one of the earliest world champions of chess. Delphine LaLaurie, the notoriously cruel slave owner, is also believed to lie in rest here. Architect and engineer Benjamin Latrobe was buried at St. Louis No. 1 after dying from yellow fever in 1820, while doing engineering for the New Orleans water works. In 2010, actor Nicolas Cage purchased a pyramid-shaped tomb to be his future final resting place.

The cemetery spans just one square block but is the resting place of many thousands. A Protestant section (generally not vaulted) lies in the northwest section.

Effective March 1, 2015, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New Orleans, which owns and manages this cemetery, has closed it to the general public, ostensibly because of the rise in vandalism there. However, in a controversial move, the diocese is now charging tour companies for access ($4,500 per year, or lesser amounts for short periods). Families who own tombs can apply for a pass to visit.

Saint Louis No. 2

St. Louis No. 2 is located some three blocks back from St. Louis No. 1, bordering Claiborne Avenue. It was consecrated in 1823. A number of notable jazz and rhythm & blues musicians are buried here, including Danny Barker and Ernie K-Doe. Also entombed here is Andre Cailloux (1825–1863), African-American Union hero and martyr of the American Civil War.

The cemetery received minor flooding during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, and its tombs seemed virtually untouched by the storm when the water went down, aside from the brownish waterline visible on all structures that were flooded.

There are many notable citizens of 19th and 20th century New Orleans laid to rest here. These include the Venerable Mother Henriette DeLille, who is a candidate for sainthood by the Catholic Church, Rodolphe Desdunes (1849–1928) and Jean Baptiste Dupeire (1795–1874) prominent citizen of New Orleans, among others.

It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1975.

Other politicians and soldiers interred/entombed here:
 * Jacques Villeré (1761–1830) of St. Bernard Parish, La. Second Governor of Louisiana after statehood, commander of the 1st Division, La. State Militia, at the Battle of New Orleans.
 * Oscar Dunn (1826–1871) Emancipated from slavery as a child, he became the first elected black lieutenant governor of a U.S. state.
 * Pierre Soulé (1801–1870) of New Orleans, Orleans Parish, La. Born in France. Member of Louisiana state senate, 1845; U.S. Senator from Louisiana, 1847, 1849–53; U.S. Minister to Spain, 1853–55; officer in the Confederate Army during the Civil War. Died in New Orleans.
 * Charles Genois (c. 1793–1866) of New Orleans, Orleans Parish, La. Whig Mayor of New Orleans, La., 1838–1840.
 * Robert Brown Elliott (1842–1884), also known as R. B. Elliott, of South Carolina. Born in Massachusetts, 1842. Republican. Delegate to Republican National Convention from South Carolina, 1868 (alternate), 1880; member of South Carolina state legislature; U.S. Representative from South Carolina 3rd District, 1871–1875. Black.
 * Paul Capdevielle (1844–1922) of New Orleans, Orleans Parish, La. Born in New Orleans, Orleans Parish, La. Mayor of New Orleans, La., 1900–1904. Died in Bay St. Louis, Hancock County, Mississippi.
 * Carleton Hunt (1836–1921) of Louisiana. Born in New Orleans, Orleans Parish, La. Nephew of Theodore Gaillard Hunt. Democrat. Served in the Confederate Army during the Civil War; U.S. Representative from Louisiana 1st District, 1883–85.
 * Ignacy Szymański (1806–1874) was a Polish and American soldier. Born in New Orleans. He served in the Confederate States Army during the American Civil War. He was appointed to colonel of Chalmette Regiment, mainly made of Scandinavian immigrants from the Louisiana State Militia.
 * Dominique You (or Youx) (c. 1775–1830) was a former privateer and Battle of New Orleans veteran.
 * Pierre Nord Alexis (1820–1910) was the President of Haiti from December 1902 until December 1908. He seized power with the help of the United States, and declared himself "President for Life" at age 87 in January 1908, and was exiled in December of that year.

Saint Louis No. 3
St. Louis No. 3 is located some 2 mi back from the French Quarter, some 30 blocks from the Mississippi, fronting Esplanade Avenue near Bayou St. John. (Coordinates: .) It opened in 1854. The crypts on average are more elaborate than at the other St. Louis cemeteries, including a number of fine 19th century marble tombs. Those entombed include ragtime composer Paul Sarebresole, photographer E. J. Bellocq, and painter Ralston Crawford. Another to be entombed here is Sweet Emma Barrett [1897–1983], a self-taught jazz piano player and singer. New Orleans mayor Ernest N. "Dutch" Morial was reinterred at St. Louis Cemetery No. 3 in a new tomb for the Morial family.

St. Louis No. 3 also includes a Greek Orthodox section. The cemetery was heavily flooded during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005, but its tombs escaped relatively unscathed. There was some plaster damage from debris.

title: Saint Louis Cemetery


text:
The Beautiful South

The Beautiful South were an English pop rock group formed in 1988 by Paul Heaton and Dave Hemingway, two former members of the Hull group the Housemartins, both of whom performed lead and backing vocals. Other members throughout the band's existence were former Housemartins roadie Sean Welch (bass), Dave Stead (drums), and Dave Rotheray (guitar). The band's original material was written by Heaton and Rotheray.

After the band's first album, Welcome to the Beautiful South (1989, recorded as a quintet), they were joined by a succession of female vocalists. All of the following artists performed lead and backing vocals alongside Heaton and Hemingway–Briana Corrigan for albums two and three after appearing as a guest vocalist on one, followed by Jacqui Abbott for the fourth to seventh albums, and finally Alison Wheeler for the final three Beautiful South albums.

The group were known for wry and socially observant lyrics. They broke up in January 2007, claiming the split was due to "musical similarities", having sold around 15 million records worldwide.

Formation
Paul Heaton and Dave Hemingway had initially come to attention as (respectively) the lead singer and "singing drummer" of the successful Hull jangle pop band the Housemartins, who had scored seven UK Top 40 singles and two Top 10 albums between 1986 and 1988. (Heaton was with the Housemartins for their entire existence; Hemingway joined in time for their second and final album.) The band was known for blending overt socialist politics and a form of Christianity, having baited the British monarchy, the building industry, and South African apartheid in their songs as well as including gospel elements in their music. The Housemartins often claimed to have set a fixed lifespan for themselves; the members duly brought the band to an end in 1988 at the height of its success. Heaton and Hemingway immediately began work on setting up a new band, naming it "The Beautiful South" as a sarcastic comment on their staunch Northern roots.

The third initial bandmember was Dave Rotheray, a songwriting guitarist who'd previously played with Hemingway in two other Hull bands, the Newpolitans and the Velvetones. At the time Rotheray was studying for a PhD at the University of Hull and living on Grafton Street, where Heaton also lived. Rotheray and Heaton became the songwriting team for the Beautiful South, which was conceived as a quintet with Heaton and Hemingway (who was no longer drumming) as the two lead singers. The core band was completed by Dave Stead (ex-Luddites/Vicious Circle) on drums, and former Housemartins roadie Sean Welch on bass guitar. Also important to the band's sound was studio keyboard player Damon Butcher—although never an official member of the group he ended up playing virtually all the piano and keyboard parts on the band's albums.

Debut album release
Their first album, Welcome to the Beautiful South, was released in 1989 and promptly produced a Number 2 UK Singles Chart hit, "Song for Whoever". With the follow-up single "You Keep It All In" reaching number 8 and "I'll Sail This Ship Alone" reaching number 31, the band were soon set to equal or surpass the success of the Housemartins, while the songwriting built on and expanded the trenchant social critiques which the previous band had been known for. Topics included nationalism, domestic violence, football hooliganism and the self-serving industry of love songs, and the album's disturbing cover art also drew attention. Northern Irish singer Briana Corrigan was featured as a background vocalist on the album. Her contributions proved so successful that she was soon promoted to full membership status, as the band's third vocalist.

Choke
In 1990, the Beautiful South released their second album, Choke. Two singles—"My Book" and "Let Love Speak Up Itself"—charted outside the Top 40, but the album also provided the band's only Number 1 hit, a Hemingway/Corrigan duet called "A Little Time". The video, featuring the aftermath of a domestic fight, won the 1991 BRIT Award for Best Video.

Third album and Corrigan's departure
The band's third album, 0898 Beautiful South, followed in 1992. It provided another Top 20 hit, "Bell Bottomed Tear", as well as two further Top 30 hits, "Old Red Eyes Is Back" and "We Are Each Other", although a fourth single, "36D", only placed in the Top 50. "We Are Each Other" also became the band's biggest hit in the United States, peaking at No. 10 on the Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart in 1992.

Both Choke and 0898 Beautiful South illustrated the growing fullness of the band's sound. Both featured Pete Thoms and Gary Barnacle as regular contributors on brass and woodwind, and also featured Corrigan as lead vocalist on several tracks. Her contribution helped to characterise the bittersweet kitchen sink dramas played out in the band's often barbed songs, and allowed Heaton and Rotheray to explore and express female perspectives in their songwriting. However, the latter approach had mixed success, demonstrated later in 1992 when Corrigan chose to leave the band to pursue a solo career. Although her decision was partly prompted by a desire to record and promote her own material (which was not getting exposure within the Beautiful South), she had also had ethical disagreements over some of Heaton's lyrics, most notably "Mini-correct", "Worthless Lie" and the 0898 Beautiful South single "36D", which criticised the British glamour industry via scathing comments about glamour models. Five years later, Hemingway admitted, "we all agree that we should have targeted the media as sexist instead of blaming the girls for taking off their tops". Heaton corroborated this view in 2022, stating, "'36D' hasn't dated well. I like the idea of blaming the newspapers, but blaming the model involved was wrong."

Jacqui Abbott joins the group
In 1993, St Helens supermarket shop-worker Jacqui Abbott was brought on board to fill in as the new third lead vocalist for the band. Heaton had heard her sing at an after-show party in St Helens and remembered her vocal talents. Heaton referred to her as "the lass from the glass" —a reference to the Pilkington factory in St Helens. Abbott's first album with the band was Miaow in the same year. Hits included "Good as Gold (Stupid as Mud)" and a cover of Fred Neil's "Everybody's Talkin'", previously popularised by Harry Nilsson.

Carry On Up the Charts
In November 1994 Carry On Up the Charts was released, a "best of" compilation consisting of the singles to date plus new track "One Last Love Song". Released at a time when the group's album sales had been waning, the album was a huge commercial success. It secured the Christmas number one spot on the charts and became the second-best selling album of the year. In 1995, the band briefly supported R.E.M. on the British leg of their world tour when they covered for Oasis, who pulled out of R.E.M's concerts at McAlpine Stadium in Huddersfield on July 25 and 26. The Beautiful South performed Oasis' "Some Might Say", dedicating the song to Oasis fans in the audience.

Blue Is the Colour
The 1996 album Blue Is the Colour sold over a million copies, and featured hit singles "Rotterdam" and "Don't Marry Her". The album demonstrated the band's gradual shift towards a country music sound, and was well received by the public and on BBC and commercial radio. In 1997, the Beautiful South headlined stadium concerts for the first and last time, in Huddersfield and at Crystal Palace National Sports Centre in London. Support for the Huddersfield concert was provided by Cast and the Lightning Seeds.

Quench
The album Quench (1998) was released with similar commercial success, again reaching number one in the UK album charts. "Perfect 10", the first single to be released from the album, also provided the band with further singles chart success. The album is also notable for being more uptempo, and being the first on which Heaton and Hemingway's former Housemartins colleague Norman Cook (Fatboy Slim) was used in a consultancy role.

Painting It Red release and Abbott's departure
Although 2000's Painting It Red album reached Number 2 in the UK charts, the band suffered difficulties in its promotion and in touring, and a substantial number of the CDs were faulty. Jacqui Abbott left the band in the same year, discouraged by the pressures of touring and needing to concentrate on looking after her son, who had just been diagnosed with autism. After completing their tour obligations, the band marked time with a second greatest-hits album (Solid Bronze) in 2001, and took time off to refresh themselves. Heaton embarked on a solo career under the Biscuit Boy (a.k.a. Crakerman) alias and released the Fat Chance album in 2001. It did not sell well, although it was critically acclaimed and was reissued under Heaton's own name the following year.

Gaze
The Beautiful South regrouped in 2003, with new recruit Alison Wheeler taking on the role of female singer. The lineup recorded Gaze in 2003, following it with 2004's Golddiggas, Headnodders and Pholk Songs, an album of unusually arranged cover tunes, including "Livin' Thing", "You're the One That I Want", "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" and "I'm Stone in Love With You". A track from the album, "This Old Skin", was presented as a cover of a song by an obscure band called "The Heppelbaums"; it was later revealed to be an original Heaton/Rotheray composition.

Final album released
The final Beautiful South album, Superbi, was released on 15 May 2006. It was recorded at Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios, a farm in Bakewell, Derbyshire and producer Ian Stanley's studio in Enniskerry, Ireland. It was mixed by Bill Price (Sex Pistols, the Clash, Guns N' Roses). The first single, "Manchester", started off as a poem—"If rain makes Britain great, then Manchester is greater"—and was, in Heaton's words, "a sodden tribute" to the city in which he now lived.

Split
After a band meeting on 30 January 2007, the Beautiful South decided to split. They released a statement on 31 January 2007, in which they joked that their reasons for splitting were "musical similarities"—an ironic reference to "musical differences", which are often cited as the reason for a band's split. "The band would like to thank everyone for their 19 wonderful years in music", the statement said.

In June 2007, the band's music was featured in a jukebox musical entitled The Slide (the book is by Adrian Davis); it premiered at the Phoenix Theatre at New College, Swindon.

Discography

 * Welcome to the Beautiful South (1989)
 * Choke (1990)
 * 0898 Beautiful South (1992)
 * Miaow (1994)
 * Blue Is the Colour (1996)
 * Quench (1998)
 * Painting It Red (2000)
 * Gaze (2003)
 * Golddiggas, Headnodders and Pholk Songs (2004)
 * Superbi (2006)

title: The Beautiful South


text:
Italic type

In typography, italic type is a cursive font based on a stylised form of calligraphic handwriting. Along with blackletter and roman type, it served as one of the major typefaces in the history of Western typography.

Owing to the influence from calligraphy, italics normally slant slightly to the right, like so. Different glyph shapes from roman type are usually used – another influence from calligraphy – and upper-case letters may have swashes, flourishes inspired by ornate calligraphy.

Historically, italics were a distinct style of type used entirely separately from roman type, but they have come to be used in conjunction—most fonts now come with a roman type and an oblique version (generally called "italic" though often not true italics). In this usage, italics are a way to emphasise key points in a printed text, to identify many types of creative works, to cite foreign words or phrases, or, when quoting a speaker, a way to show which words they stressed. One manual of English usage described italics as "the print equivalent of underlining"; in other words, underscore in a manuscript directs a typesetter to use italic.

In fonts which do not have true italics, oblique type may be used instead. The difference between true italics and oblique type is that true italics have some letterforms different from the roman type, but in oblique type letters are just slanted without changing the roman type form.

The name comes from the fact that calligraphy-inspired typefaces were first designed in Italy, to replace documents traditionally written in a handwriting style called chancery hand. Aldus Manutius and Ludovico Arrighi (both between the 15th and 16th centuries) were the main type designers involved in this process at the time.

History
Italic type was first used by Aldus Manutius and his press in Venice in 1500.

Manutius intended his italic type to be used not for emphasis but for the text of small, easily carried editions of popular books (often poetry), replicating the style of handwritten manuscripts of the period. The choice of using italic type, rather than the roman type in general use at the time, was apparently made to suggest informality in editions designed for leisure reading. Manutius' italic type was cut by his punchcutter Francesco Griffo (who later, following a dispute with Manutius, claimed to have conceived it). It replicated handwriting of the period following from the style of Niccolò de' Niccoli, possibly even Manutius' own.

The first use in a complete volume was a 1501 edition of Virgil dedicated to Italy, although it had been briefly used in the frontispiece of a 1500 edition of Catherine of Siena's letters. In 1501, Aldus wrote to his friend Scipio:

"We have printed, and are now publishing, the Satires of Juvenal and Persius in a very small format, so that they may more conveniently be held in the hand and learned by heart (not to speak of being read) by everyone."

Manutius' italic was different in some ways from modern italics, being conceived for the specific use of replicating the layout of contemporary calligraphers like Pomponio Leto and Bartolomeo Sanvito. The capital letters were upright capitals on the model of Roman square capitals, shorter than the ascending lower-case italic letters, and were used at the start of each line followed by a clear space before the first lower-case letter. While modern italics are often more condensed than roman types, historian Harry Carter describes Manutius' italic as about the same width as roman type. To replicate handwriting, Griffo cut at least sixty-five tied letters (ligatures) in the Aldine Dante and Virgil of 1501. Italic typefaces of the following century used varying but reduced numbers of ligatures.

Italic type rapidly became very popular and was widely (and inaccurately) imitated. The Venetian Senate gave Aldus exclusive right to its use, a patent confirmed by three successive Popes, but it was widely counterfeited as early as 1502. Griffo, who had left Venice in a business dispute, cut a version for printer Girolamo "Gershom" Soncino, and other copies appeared in Italy and in Lyons. The Italians called the character Aldino, while others called it Italic. Italics spread rapidly; historian H. D. L. Vervliet dates the first production of italics in Paris to 1512. Some printers of Northern Europe used home-made supplements to add characters not used in Italian, or mated it to alternative capitals, including Gothic ones.

Besides imitations of Griffo's italic and its derivatives, a second wave appeared of "chancery" italics, most popular in Italy, which Vervliet describes as being based on "a more deliberate and formal handwriting [with] longer ascenders and descenders, sometimes with curved or bulbous terminals, and [often] only available in the bigger sizes." Chancery italics were introduced around 1524 by Arrighi, a calligrapher and author of a calligraphy textbook who began a career as a printer in Rome, and also by Giovanni Antonio Tagliente of Venice, with imitations rapidly appearing in France by 1528. Chancery italics faded as a style over the course of the sixteenth century, although revivals were made beginning in the twentieth century. Chancery italics may have backward-pointing serifs or round terminals pointing forwards on the ascenders.

Italic capitals with a slope were introduced in the sixteenth century. The first printer known to have used them was Johann or Johannes Singriener in Vienna in 1524, and the practice spread to Germany, France and Belgium. Particularly influential in the switch to sloped capitals as a general practice was Robert Granjon, a prolific and extremely precise French punchcutter particularly renowned for his skill in cutting italics. Vervliet comments that among punchcutters in France "the main name associated with the change is Granjon's."

The evolution of use of italic to show emphasis happened in the sixteenth century and was a clear norm by the seventeenth. The trend of presenting types as matching in typefounders' specimens developed also over this period. Italics developed stylistically over the following centuries, tracking changing tastes in calligraphy and type design. One major development that slowly became popular from the end of the seventeenth century was a switch to an open form h matching the n, a development seen in the Romain du roi type of the 1690s, replacing the folded, closed-form h of sixteenth- and seventeenth-century italics, and sometimes simplification of the entrance stroke.

Examples
True italic styles are traditionally somewhat narrower than roman fonts. Here is an example of normal (roman) and true italics text:

In oblique text, the same type is used as in normal type, but slanted to the right:

Usage

 * Emphasis: "Smith wasn't the guilty party, it's true". This often corresponds with stress in speech.
 * The titles of works that stand by themselves, such as books (including those within a larger series), albums, paintings, plays, television shows, movies, and periodicals: "He wrote his thesis on The Scarlet Letter". Works that appear within larger works, such as short stories, poems, newspaper articles, songs, and television episodes are not italicised, but merely set off in quotation marks. When italics are unavailable, such as on a typewriter or websites that do not support formatting, an underscore or quotes are often used instead.
 * The names of ships: "The Queen Mary sailed last night."
 * Foreign words, including the Latin binomial nomenclature in the taxonomy of living organisms: "A splendid coq au vin was served"; "Homo sapiens".
 * The names of newspapers and magazines: "My favorite magazine is Psychology Today, and my favorite newspaper is the Chicago Tribune."
 * Mentioning a word as an example of a word rather than for its semantic content (see use–mention distinction): "The word the is an article".
 * Using a letter or number mentioned as itself:
 * John was annoyed; they had forgotten the h in his name once again.
 * When she saw her name beside the 1 on the rankings, she finally had proof that she was the best.
 * Introducing or defining terms, especially technical terms or those used in an unusual or different way: "Freudian psychology is based on the ego, the super-ego, and the id."; "An even number is one that is a multiple of 2."
 * Sometimes in novels to indicate a character's thought process: "This can't be happening, thought Mary."
 * Italics are used in the King James Version to words "that have no equivalent in the original text but that are necessary in English": "And God saw the light, that it was good".
 * Algebraic symbols (constants and variables) are conventionally typeset in italics: "The solution is n = 2."
 * Symbols for physical quantities and mathematical constants: "The speed of light, c, is approximately equal to 3.00×108 m/s."
 * In biology, gene names (for example, lacZ) are written in italics whereas protein names are written in roman type (e.g. β-galactosidase, which the lacZ gene codes for).
 * Italics are frequently used in comics. A letterer may opt to use italic text for a variety of situations, such as internal monologues, captions, words from other languages, and text rendered inside certain types of speech balloons (such as thought balloons). Bolded words are commonly also rendered in italic.
 * In older English usage, writers italicised words much more freely, for emphasis, for instance John Donne:

"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were ..."

Oblique type compared to italics
Oblique type (or slanted roman, sloped roman) is type that is slanted, but lacking cursive letterforms, with features like a non-descending f and double-storey a, unlike "true italics". Many sans-serif typefaces use oblique designs (sometimes called "sloped roman" styles) instead of italic ones; some have both italic and oblique variants. Type designers have described oblique type as less organic and calligraphic than italics, which in some situations may be preferred. Contemporary type designer Jeremy Tankard stated that he had avoided a true italic a and e in his sans-serif Bliss due to finding them "too soft", while Hoefler and Frere-Jones have described obliques as more "keen and insistent" than true italics. Adrian Frutiger has described obliques as more appropriate to the aesthetic of sans-serifs than italics. In contrast, Martin Majoor has argued that obliques do not contrast enough from the regular style.

Almost all modern serif fonts have true italic designs. In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, a number of type foundries such as American Type Founders and Genzsch & Heyse offered serif typefaces with oblique rather than italic designs, especially display typefaces but these designs (such as Genzsch Antiqua) have mostly disappeared. An exception is American Type Founders' Bookman, offered in some releases with the oblique of its metal type version. An unusual example of an oblique font from the inter-war period is the display face Koch Antiqua. With a partly oblique lower case, it also makes the italic capitals inline in the style of blackletter capitals in the larger sizes of the metal type. It was developed by Rudolph Koch, a type designer who had previously specialised in blackletter font design (which does not use italics); Walter Tracy described his design as "uninhibited by the traditions of roman and italic".

The printing historian and artistic director Stanley Morison was for a time in the inter-war period interested in the oblique type style, which he felt stood out in text less than a true italic and should supersede it. He argued in his article Towards an Ideal Italic that serif book typefaces should have as the default sloped form an oblique and as a complement a script typeface where a more decorative form was preferred. He made an attempt to promote the idea by commissioning the typeface Perpetua from Eric Gill with a sloped roman rather than an italic, but came to find the style unattractive; Perpetua's italic when finally issued had the conventional italic a, e and f. Morison wrote to his friend, type designer Jan van Krimpen, that in developing Perpetua's italic "we did not give enough slope to it. When we added more slope, it seemed that the font required a little more cursive to it." A few other type designers replicated his approach for a time: Van Krimpen's Romulus and William Addison Dwiggins' Electra were both released with obliques. Morison's Times New Roman typeface has a very traditional true italic in the style of the late eighteenth century, which he later wryly commented owed "more to Didot than dogma".

Some serif designs primarily intended for headings rather than body text are not provided with an italic, Engravers and some releases of Cooper Black and Baskerville Old Style being common examples of this. In addition, computer programmes may generate an 'italic' style by simply slanting the regular style if they cannot find an italic or oblique style, though this may look awkward with serif fonts for which an italic is expected. Professional designers normally do not simply tilt fonts to generate obliques but make subtle corrections to correct the distorted curves this introduces. Many sans-serif families have oblique fonts labelled as italic, whether or not they include "true italic" characteristics.

Italics within italics
If something within a run of italics needs to be italicised itself, the type is normally switched back to non-italicized (roman) type: "I think The Scarlet Letter had a chapter about that, thought Mary." In this example, the title ("The Scarlet Letter") is within an italicised thought process and therefore this title is non-italicised. It is followed by the main narrative that is outside both. It is also non-italicised and therefore not obviously separated from the former. The reader must find additional criteria to distinguish between these. Here, apart from using the attribute of italic–non-italic styles, the title also employs the attribute of capitalization. Citation styles in which book titles are italicised differ on how to deal with a book title within a book title; for example, MLA style specifies a switch back to roman type, whereas The Chicago Manual of Style (14.94) specifies the use of quotation marks (A Key to Whitehead's "Process and Reality"). An alternative option is to switch to an 'upright italic' style if the typeface used has one; this is discussed below.

Left-leaning italics
Left-leaning italics are now rare in Latin script, where they are mostly used for the occasional attention-grabbing effect. They were once more common, however, being used for example in legal documents.

They are more common in Arabic script. In certain Arabic fonts (e.g.: Adobe Arabic, Boutros Ads), the italic font has the top of the letter leaning to the left, instead of leaning to the right. Some font families, such as Venus, Roemisch, Topografische Zahlentafel, include left leaning fonts and letters designed for German cartographic map production, even though they do not support Arabic characters.

Iranic font style
In the 1950s, Gholamhossein Mosahab invented the Iranic font style, a back-slanted italic form to go with the right-to-left direction of the script.

Upright italics
Since italic styles clearly look different from regular (roman) styles, it is possible to have 'upright italic' designs that have a cursive style but remain upright. In Latin-script countries, upright italics are rare but are sometimes used in mathematics or in complex texts where a section of text already in italics needs a 'double italic' style to add emphasis to it. Donald Knuth's Computer Modern has an alternate upright italic as an alternative to its standard italic, since its intended use is mathematical typesetting.

Font families with an upright or near-upright italic only include Jan van Krimpen's Romanée, Eric Gill's Joanna, Martin Majoor's FF Seria and Frederic Goudy's Deepdene. The popular book typeface Bembo has been sold with two italics: one reasonably straightforward design that is commonly used today, and an alternative upright 'Condensed Italic' design, far more calligraphic, as a more eccentric alternative. This italic face was designed by Alfred Fairbank and named "Bembo Condensed Italic", Monotype series 294. Some Arts and Crafts movement-influenced printers such as Gill also revived the original italic system of italic lower-case only from the nineteenth century onwards.

Parentheses

The Chicago Manual of Style suggests that parentheses and brackets surrounding text that begins and ends in italic or oblique type should also be italicised (as in this example), to avoid problems such as overlapping and unequally spaced characters. An exception to this rule applies when only one end of the parenthetical is italicised (in which case roman type is preferred, as on the right of this example).

In The Elements of Typographic Style, however, it is argued that, since Italic delimiters are not historically correct, the upright versions should always be used, while paying close attention to kerning.

Substitutes
In media where italicization is not possible, alternatives are used as substitutes:

 * In typewritten or handwritten text, underlining is typically used.
 * In plain-text computer files, including e-mail communication, italicised words are often indicated by surrounding them with slashes or other matched delimiters. For example:
 * I was /really/ annoyed.
 * They >completely< forgot me!
 * I had _nothing_ to do with it. (Commonly interpreted as underlining, which is an alternative to italics.)
 * It was *absolutely* horrible. (Commonly interpreted as bold. This and the previous example signify italic in Markdown, where bolding uses **double asterisks**, and underlining uses __double underscores__.)
 * Where the italics do not indicate emphasis, but are marking a title or where a word is being mentioned, quotation marks may be substituted:
 * The word "the" is an article.
 * The term "even number" refers to a number that is a multiple of 2.
 * The novel "Fahrenheit 451" was written by Ray Bradbury.

OpenType
OpenType has the  feature tag to substitute a character to italic form with single font. In addition, the OpenType Font Variation has  axis for the transition between italic and non-italic forms and   axis for the oblique angle of characters.

Web pages
In HTML, the  element is used to produce italic (or oblique) text. When the author wants to indicate emphasised text, modern Web standards recommend using the  element, because it conveys that the content is to be emphasised, even if it cannot be displayed in italics. Conversely, if the italics are purely ornamental rather than meaningful, then semantic markup practices would dictate that the author use the Cascading Style Sheets declaration  along with an appropriate, semantic class name instead of an   or   element.

Unicode
In Unicode, the Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols block includes Latin and Greek letters in italics and boldface. However, Unicode expressly recommends against using these characters in general text in place of presentational markup.

title: Italic type


text:
Talk:United States Green Parties

Untitled
For the sake of consistency, this page should be moved to United States Green Party. See List of political parties in the United States. --Jiang 19:27 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Rename Article to "Green Party of the United States"
The full and proper name of this organization is "Green Party of the United States." This is a legally recognized and established name, so "United States Green Party" is technically incorrect. If the name were simply "Green Party" then it would make sense to clarify by listing it as the "United States" Green Party; but this is not the case, so this article should be renamed "Green Party of the United States" to accurately reflect this organization's name.

 * Thing is, until your recent round of edits, this article was not about the GPUS specifically, but was more generally about GPUS and G/GPUSA. So, we were evidentally using "United States Green Party" as an umbrella term to refer to both groups together.  It has occurred to me sometimes in the past that maybe we should split them up into two separate articles.  It seems a little unfair, though, to do this simply by altering the article to discuss one and not the other.  One solution is to make "United States Green Party" a disambiguation page that links to the GPUS and G/GPUSA articles.  Alternatively, we could have mostly everything just go straight to Green Party of the United States but have a disambiguation link at the top of the page going to  Greens/Green Party USA. - Nat Krause 23:24, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * The history version of the page, now buried underneath the new section, makes the important point that for all practical purposes, the GPUS is the Green Party in the United States. The GPUSA has essentially no membership or infrastructure at this point, and there is no longer any credible controversy as to which organization constitutes the official Green Party. A disambiguation page linking to both organizations as competitors for being the party would be misleading on this point. RadicalSubversiv E 16:45, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree. 99% of people looking for the Green Party in the United States will be looking for GPUS.  We can link to G/GPUSA within the GPUS article; and maintain that article seperately, allowing anyone wanting to write about G/GPUSA to do so.

 * I agree that, currently, the GPUS is much larger and more significant, and therefore more likely to be what someone is trying to find information about. However, the G/GPUSA was a significant player in national green politics until at least the late 90s.  On this basis, I propose the following solution.  Most of the current article should be moved to Green Party of the United States and should be specifically about that group.  We should make sure that all references to the US Green Party vis a vis recent history (since 2000) point there.  It should contain a reference and a link to G/GPUSA in its opening paragraph.  There should be a sep'rate Greens/Green Party USA article which also mentions and links to Green Party of the United States. - Nat Krause 06:55, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I can agree to that. There will be a seperate pages for "Green Party of the United States" and "Greens/Green Party USA."  "United States Green Party" can be a disambiguation page with links to both of the other pages; however, the disambiguation page should also contain information indicating that GPUS is the larger and better known organization that nominated and ran Ralph Nader for president in the 2000 election, to help distnguish between the two.  Agreed?

 * Agreed. I would go further and say that any references to "the Green Party" (in the context of the United States, I mean) that are referring to it after about 2000-2001 should skip the redirect and go straight to Green Party of the United States.  Also, I think the redirect should be United States Green Parties to avoid confusion. - Nat Krause 05:43, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed. User:Mcarling 18:05, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed here as well, though I believe both United States Green Party and United States Green Parties could be redirects. - Scooter 19:18, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Will this change finally be made? Shem Daimwood
 * Nevermind, I've done it myself. 203.214.145.43 15:17, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Membership Numbers
Someone attempted to remove the reference to GPUS having over 300,000 members nationwide. Their claim was that registered voters are not party members. Registered voter are considered party members by law in most states. In addition, the 300,000 number includes only registered voters--GPUS actually has more members, in states where registration by party is not permitted. The elimination of this reference number has been reverted.

 * See this site for an independent, nonpartisan analysis of GPUS membership. The Green Party already had 298,701 registered voters in Janurary 2004, not counting membership in states where registration by party is not permitted, and has grown significantly since that time.  The claim that GPUS has fewer than 300,000 members nationwide is clearly false.

 * It is not correct that registered voters are considered party members by law in most states. If fact that couldn't be correct as the SCOTUS has repeatedly and consistently rules that the states have no right to legislate anything at all about political party membership. The assertion that the Greens have anywhere near 300K members is absolutely false. Reverting. User:Mcarling 15:00, 2004 Sep 2 (UTC)

 * I disagree but am willing to clarify as a compromise. I will state that the Green Party has over 300,000 "registered voters" nationwide.  That's a fact.  Here's another website with an analysis showing those statistics.

 * Good compromise. About 300,000 is a fact.  Over 300,000 is wishful thinking.  When Ballot Access News says over 300,000, then I'll believe it.  Made that minor correction.  User:Mcarling 18:00, 2004 Sep 2 (UTC)

 * I'm fine with that change. Good compromise.

Should this be a disambiguation page?
I have just reverted changes that turned this page into a disambiguation page, moving most of the content to Green Party of the United States. While there was some discussion above of a similar proposal, it was well over a month ago and did not reach a consensus. I would like to once again renew my objection to such a move. The article is primarily about the history and activities of the Green Party (much of it before the ASGP/GPUS ever existed) not about the national organization specifically, and it deals with the split (which is basically over), quite well. RadicalSubversiv E 00:33, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I am not clear as to your reasons. From the above discussion on the move, which concludes with five responses in agreement, I would say that consensus had been achieved.  Secondly, "the Green Party" in the U.S. was always one of the two organizations mentioned (GPUS or G/GPUSA); the GCOC became the ASGP which became the GPUS.  Finally, as mentioned in the previous discussion, most users will be looking at this page for info on the GPUS.  My suggestion would be to make GPUS the main page for all post-1990 links, turn "United States Green Party" into a redirect to GPUS, and create links on GPUS and G/GPUSA which refer to each other...however, a disamb page would be a reasonable compromise. - Scooter 19:18, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * The history of Greens in the U.S. is that until very recently there hasn't been a consistent "the" Green Party that everyone agreed on. There's been several national organizational formations which have morphed and split in various ways (you've actually got it a little wrong: the GCOC became "The Greens", which suffered a split of sorts -- became the G/GPUSA -- which resulted in the creation of state parties, which resulted in the formation of the ASGP), and this article deals with all of that, and presents the current situation in appropriate context. I don't know what's special about 1990, but attempting to link references to Greens would become much more complicated under your proposed scenario. RadicalSubversiv E 20:48, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * But now there is a consistent "the" Green Party near-everyone agrees on, and that is the Green Party of the United States. G/GPUSA is of very little (if any) consequence in America's political scene today, though I wholeheartedly agree that their history should be included.  Placing that history on a disambiguation page with links to GPUS and Greens/GPUSA seems the best way to do this (while also referencing the split in each individual article).  Regardless, most readers will be looking for Green Party of the United States when they come looking for "United States Green Party."  At some point, it must be accepted that Greens/GPUSA is a dead party, and that it should not have equal prominence with the GPUS. Shem 16:08, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * No one's claiming that the GPUS and the G/GPUSA should be given equal prominence. What I am accurately stating is that this article is not specifically about the GPUS, but about the politics and history of Greens in the United States generally. Moreover, there's a precedent for this in articles about the major political parties. We have separate articles for the United States Democratic Party (akin to United States Green Party) and the Democratic National Committee (the organization equivalent of the Green Party of the United States, which is also an FEC-recognized national party committee). RadicalSubversiv E 22:51, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Save that in the GPUS's case, their party and national committee are one in the same. The Democratic National Committee's equivalent within the GPUS is the Green Party Coordinating Committee, not GPUS itself.

 * Not quite. The coordinating committee of the GPUS is an internal decision-making body, not a legal organization. The legal organization, precisely equivalent to the DNC or RNC, is the GPUS. This was all made very clear when the GPUS re-organized and filed with the FEC after the 2000 elections; you can go back and read all the supporting documents for confirmation. The party is a set of national, state, and local organizations and individuals, with a relatively broad history and politics relative to the GPUS, which is the Green Party's national committee. RadicalSubversiv E 19:57, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Why Greens do not hold higher office
Removed from article:

"This is mainly owing to the campaigning and voting systems of that nation which are heavily weaighed in favor of the Democratic and Republican parties due to their size, as well as the failure of Green Party candidates to get very many votes. Most American Greens support election reform as the appropriate avenue for addressing this skewed system."

I don't think the lead paragraph needs to get into speculation into the systematic causes of the party's lack of success. Others may disagree. Regardless, Nat Krause's addition "as well as the failure ... to get very many votes" is totally superfluous -- it basically amounts to saying that the party does not win elections because it does not win enough votes. Absent fraud, that's always why candidates lose elections. RadicalSubversiv E 20:19, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah, you're right, that addition on my part was not very well considered. My point was that the reason Greens are not elected is not necessarily because of the election system, but it's better to simply not worry about discussing this in the intro. - Nat Krause 23:10, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:United States Green Parties


text:
Talk:Sudbury Valley School

Comment
Considering the unique nature of the Sudbury model of education, and that there are now over 40 schools practicing the model started at Sudbury Valley School, it seems this is an important school to write about. I've cleaned up what was here a bit, but if the page is going to conform to the proposed WikiProject Schools template, there is still some more work to be done. Aaron Winborn 12 Jun 2005

You may want to consider upgrading this article to conform to WikiProject Schools. Davodd 07:53, Feb 24, 2004 (UTC)

Encouraging creativity?
I have reverted the recent addition to the Curriculum section seemingly claiming that the freedom allowed to students is intended to encourage creativity. The way I understand the educational model, and indeed the way the founders of SVS talk about it, the freedom is not intended to encourage anything in particular. It is intended to allow the students to develop as is right for them, without any unrequested interference. The Sudbury model does not have any kind of educational agenda in the traditional sense. The model simply expects people to take responsibility for themselves and manage themselves effectively. It is misleading to claim the model specifically espouses creativity. Michael Sappir • (Talk) 14:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

In response to Michael Sappir, I think maybe you have a different view of the schools purpose. The school can inspire the creative process for the child who already wants to learn a specific thing. It's not going to be for every child. That's a given. That's why "t--74.94.154.5 (talk) 01:03, 8 December 2010 (UTC)raditional" schools are still around. It's not supposed to replace them, it just give kids who are looking for a way to express their creativity and begin a journey that they plan not a guidance counselor who has no clue what they want. Guidance counselors are a whole new topic. Traditional schools don't offer the same type of creative spirit. Traditional schools are structured to create followers. People who will follow the mold and become the best at memorizing and stressing things that won't apply to anything they want to do. The Sudbury model lets students learn things that interest them. They find out real life applications to subjects that matter to them. They are more likely to become a viable part of their community. Isn't that what we need now instead of more drones just trying to survive while doing things they don't wanna do? Regulator13 07:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Unbelievable!! I'm a parent with children and this almost made me want to move to MA. Seriously, it sounds too good to be true, and maybe it is. I'd like hear more about how the students do after their graduation.

Let us stop with biased opinion. SVS in no way encorages anything. As I see it SVS follows a simple philosophy of do-it-yourself, it doesn't guarantee success or failure. All SVS does is abandon a student and hope that he can somehow survive in the jungle of chaos alone. Instead of advertising let's try getting the facts. Stop basing information on what the school and the students there say, because, they most likely, will say nothing bad about the school in fear of getting expelled. --74.94.154.5 (talk) 01:03, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Point of View
Looks like this article needs a POV "cleanup"; not to mention citations — most articles are in desperate need of facts. --Charles Gaudette 15:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

In response to Charles Gaudette and requests to expand the article, I have attempted to flesh out the article and add several sources. I am still concerned about a neutral POV, as I had trouble finding criticisms of the school or its instructional methods. If anybody is aware of articles of criticism, please cite and discuss them. ZuG 16:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I think the first step of a POV cleanup would not entail finding criticism to include, but removing some of the subjective opinions of other school systems.

 * For example, this article calls public schools "one of the last bastions of autocratic rule," a statement which of course has no citation because it is far too subjective to support. Even if we are willing to regard a school administration as a form of rule, and thus autocratic rule, how can we possibly say that it is one of the last bastions of it?  What about libraries?  Subways?  Coffee houses?  Your car?

 * As another example, the article describes this school system as a true democracy while others only employ democracy among the privileged few, e.g. faculty. In fact, both SV schools and public schools only allow a proper subset of the public to vote on administrative matters; it just happens that the SV system has a larger proper subset.

 * As for including criticism of the system, I think that should only happen if substantial criticism has been published. A neutral point of view is not necessarily a balanced one, and a slanted article should not be fixed by tracking down and mixing in an equal but opposite amount of slant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.125.249.34 (talk) 16:49, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Advertisement
I added a "criticism" section, which contained a bulleted list of *two* criticisms. Within half an hour, it was deleted. I conclude that this article has been captured by people who are using Wikipedia to propagandize for S.V., and request that the article be locked and maintained by a neutral party. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.195.114 (talk) 18:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * what were the two criticisms? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.247.66.48 (talk) 15:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

That seems like a logical decision and I would support you on that--74.94.154.5 (talk) 01:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Judicial Committee
I've done a bit of clean up on the article but it still needs substantial work. One area that I think needs particular help is the Judicial Committee. This pretty much dominates the section on committees, although at least at my school it is fairly unique to any other committee in that participation is mandatory and it is given much more authority. Will someone who is familiar with SVS's JC create an accurate description of their process? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Motive.Power (talk • contribs) 22:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

This may not be entirely accurate, as I'm working from memory, but: The JC is made up of five apointed members, each one representing a diferent age group: one older teenager (17 or older), one mid-teenager (14-16), one younger teenager (around 13), one older child (between 8 and 12), and one younger child (between 4 and 8). The school meeting chairman apoints the JC members. Being apointed to the JC is mandatory (as in, if you're picked you have to serve on JC). However, the chairman asking someone if they wish to be on JC out of courtosy has happened. But that really depends on the chairman at the time. The JC is run by two JC clerks, who are elected in the school meeting. There are four JC clerk elections a year, with each pair of clerks serving for eight weeks. Also, each staff member serves on JC every two weeks as part of a rotating schedule.

Again, however, I was merely working from memory. I'm not 100% certain about the number of elections or the length of the Clerks' term. --Lupus27 01:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Section wholly lacking third-party sourcing
This lengthy section is wholly lacking in third party sourcing (it's all sourced to the ubiquitous insider, Daniel Greenberg) to demonstrate its prominence (per WP:UNDUE & WP:V), so I'm moving it here to talk unlless & until such third party sources can be found. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:43, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Subtleties of a democratic school
Certain nuances in the operation of Sudbury Valley School emerged during the years it has been in existence, which are essential in defining it:

 * Political neutrality
 * Sudbury Valley School is apolitical. This is a school in which they consciously do not pay attention to the political views of the people who seek to become members of the community: party affiliations, philosophy, class, about any of the features that separate political factions in society. The school does not endorse or support or involve itself with any local projects programs or activities that have a political agenda, while alternative schools and other democratic schools are virtually all identified with specific political movements. The school practices the idea that people of divergent political and social views can work together in a common enterprise where they have common goals other than politics, that political and viewpoint ideas will naturally develop and be discussed by people among themselves, and that the 'law of the land' is fairest and most reasonable when it is pluralistic, and does not formally take sides in aesthetic or political choices.

 * The existence of rules of order
 * Official meetings of any group in this school operate according to some set of explicit, formal procedures. The chief function of rules of order is to protect all views and to give them as detached and thorough an airing as possible enabling for decision making, as opposed to the most prevailing models of decision making in schools, the authoritarian model, and the one run as a continuing encounter group, including other democratic schools, which some of them operate without rules of order. Rules constitute the main protection for reason, intellect, objectivity, detachment, and minorities in a group context, as opposed to feeling and emotion. It is the existence of a clear, explicit procedure that protects and encourages people to introduce motions, thence coming to feel that there is access to the political process to all.

 * The rule of law
 * The Rule of Law is generally acknowledged to be a cornerstone of orderly, organized society. In this school, laws are always promulgated in writing, and careful records are kept of the body of precedents surrounding each rule. There is a simple process accessible to all members of the community. There is no opening, however small, for arbitrary or capricious authority to step in.

 * The public schools remain one of the last bastions of autocratic rule in our society. There is in fact no rule of law, by and large the same as in alternative schools where power resides in the momentary whim of the majority at a given instant. They hold the unity of the community to be of prime value and to take precedence over everything else. So they will usually undermine any attempt to institute the rule of law, since that would tend to make an individual feel secure and protect him when he chooses to stand apart.

 * Universal suffrage
 * This is the idea that everybody, every member of the school, student and staff, has a vote. It is really a simple idea, as opposed to the idea of democracy as it is sold in Academia, in the heart of our educational system, where the idea is a Greek one: democracy is for the privileged. Confusing the issue of subject matter with the issue of political power.

 * Protecting the Rights of individuals
 * This school has a strong tradition that there exist rights belonging to every individual member of the school community, and that these have to be protected in every way possible, for example the right of privacy. Because of this right there is no intervention in the private affairs of students — intervention that characterizes other schools, including other democratic schools.

 * Protecting the rights of individuals is not an absolute concept; it's a much more subtle one where the line is drawn between community interest and private interest that involves a great deal of judgment. The idea of individual rights is absent from schools, because the rights of people in schools — other democratic schools included — are simply not respected, even if there is occasional lip service paid to this.

School meeting
Students and staff are invited to participate in the running of the school via the School Meeting, with each participant receiving one vote. The meetings are conducted using Robert's Rules of Order. The School Meetings determine rules and regulations for all aspects of the school, including finances, new rules, and the election of staff. To keep the school running smoothly, it also creates Clerks, Committees, and School Corporations.

Clerks, committees, and corporations
Clerks are essentially administrative officers that handle tasks within the school, such as grounds maintenance or attendance records. Committees handle larger tasks, such as school aesthetics or rules violations; the membership of the Judicial Committee is described below, but all other standing committees in the school have open membership—any School Meeting Member (staff or student) may join any committee in the first ten days of October or the first ten days of January. School Corporations are the equivalent of departments or clubs at traditional schools—all School Meeting Members (students and staff) may be members of each corporation, and each corporation elects its own directors.

The Judicial Committee
The Judicial Committee investigates allegations of school rules violations, holds a trial, determines a verdict, and imposes a sentence (much like the current judicial system in the United States). If a sentence is appealed, the appeal is held in the weekly School Meeting. Students and staff alike may be called in front of the Judicial Committee.

School assembly
There is also an annually-held School Assembly, which is the broad policy-making arm of the school. It consists of staff, students, and parents of students. Its main purpose is to approve the school budget submitted by the School Meeting. It also elects a Board of Trustees, which only exist in an advisory capacity. Its purpose is to study questions posed to it by the Assembly and report back to the Assembly when it is ready to do so.

[End of section wholly lacking third-party sourcing HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:43, 5 January 2011 (UTC) ]

Is all that is left in the article wholly third party sourced?
94.230.82.164 (talk) 09:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope -- pretty close to none of it is third party sourced -- see all the 'Sudbury Valley School Press's in the References list. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 09:24, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Specifically, the 'Educational philosophy', 'Staff' & 'Alumni' sections are sourced solely, or almost-solely to Sudbury Valley School-affiliated sources. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 09:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Then, why is this article still part of Wikipedia?

94.230.82.164 (talk) 09:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Because it's pretty near impossible to get any article on a school deleted -- I saw one school article -- no sources cited in the article & none raised at AfD, still 'kept' by the AfD. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 09:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Nope -- because pretty close to none, no wikipedia article on a school, is entierly third-party sourced -- or at least most of it. If the editing of all wikipedia articles on schools was done the way you did the editing of this article, articles on schools would be emptied of important parts of these schools' core ideas. Articles would remain as stubs, as you did with this one. 94.230.81.67 (talk) 08:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I thought you wrote: "No third party sourcing = no inclusion". Does that applies only to Sudbury Valley School?

94.230.82.164 (talk) 09:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

 * "No third party sourcing = no inclusion" is indeed the rule. The (de facto) exception only applies to AfDs, and would presumably apply to an AfD for this school. This exception does not allow such articles to grow to excessive size based solely upon school-affiliated sources. Additionally, I originally said "pretty close to none of it is third party sourced", not 'absolutely none' -- meaning that there is likely to be a small third-party sourced core left, even after the 'Sudbury Valley School Press' material is eliminated. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 10:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Educational philosophy synthesis
The 'Educational philosophy' section is a list, which purports to be based upon this article (published by Sudbury Valley School itself of course -- the writers of this article don't believe in sullying their purity with third-party infidels). However I'm having a great deal of difficulty abstracting this list from this article. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 04:59, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

== This article became a stub because of HrafnTalkStalk(P) ==

Pretty close to none, no wikipedia article on a school, is entierly third-party sourced -- or at least most of it. If the editing of all wikipedia articles on schools was done the way you did the editing of this article, articles on schools would be emptied of important parts of these schools' core ideas. Articles would remain as stubs, as HrafnTalkStalk(P) did with this one. 31.210.178.236 (talk) 14:17, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sudbury Valley School