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Talk:San Joaquin County, California

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South San Joaquin Irrigation District
I suggest an own article for South San Joaquin Irrigation District. This a very important topic.--Nopetro (talk) 13:43, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. The question isn't whether or not the topic is important, but if you can locate enough reliable sources that have written about it, discussed it, or otherwise provide verifiable third-party information from which someone can develop an article. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just pointing out what needs to be done for such an article to survive. If you were going to research and write such an article, I would highly recommend fully developing it in your Userspace and then moving it into the Articlespace after it is written. Be sure to include citations to the sources you used (preferably with inline citations) and include information that establishes the District's notability, preferably even outside of San Joaquin County. I hope that gives you a good start, and good luck with writing that article if you decide to. If you have questions or need any help with editing on Wikipedia, leave me a message on my talk page and I will respond as soon as I can. Have a good day! — Will scrlt ( “Talk” ) 17:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you a lot for your response. The problem: I live outside of California and I cannot get too much information from outside the Internet. I am going to search information in Internet. Do you know something about the topic and can provide some sources ?. Thanks in advance. --Nopetro (talk) 06:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I live in California, but Sacramento is about an hour's drive north of there; certainly closer than you are, but still not an easy side stop on my daily commute. A quick glance at their website shows a fair amount of information, and the related links should include some additional information and/or corroboration of their information (so that the entire article isn't based solely upon a single source). I don't know enough about what an Irrigation District is or what it does to judge if it is notable enough on its own, but I'd suggest searching the archives of http://www.sfgate.com, http://www.sacbee.com, and http://www.latimes.com to see if they get any press coverage outside of the local area. If they do, that should be notable enough. I hope that my comments were at least a little bit of help. — Will scrlt ( “Talk” ) 10:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You are right. The main problem is that does not exist a (general) irrigation district article (I have redirected it to an article of legislation  about irrigation districts). --Nopetro (talk) 13:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Joaquin County, California


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Talk:San Luis Obispo County, California

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101
Does that picture really need to be there? Why does an article on SLO county have a picture of the 101, 3 countys down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigbadbyte (talk • contribs) 01:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree so I've removed it. —  X   S   G   07:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Page Move
Per WP:NC:CITY, "San Luis Obispo County" needs no disambiguation as it is a unique name for a county. As such, the article should be named San Luis Obispo County and not San Luis Obispo County, California (though San Luis Obispo County, California can serve as a redirect back to San Luis Obispo County). There's a discussion on this subject on Talk:San Luis Obispo, California, and I'll perform whatever action to this page as is appropriate to that page. If that "action" is "nothing at all" then so be it. —  X   S   G   01:01, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Never mind, per a more thorough reading of WP:NC:CITY. —  X   S   G   01:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Adjacent Counties chart...
I'm not a fan of the new adjacent county chart. I'd like to delete it. Thoughts? —  X   S   G   03:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not either. I admit, this is my very first time seeing it, but I'm used to just listing the counties. YellowAries2010 (talk) 20:41, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Anyone else want to comment? - 4twenty42o (talk) 04:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Historical air photos gallery
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article60808551.html

A nice set of 30 photos, dating from just after WW2 to about 2008, from the SLO Tribune newspaper. I'm putting it here as the Trib has the habit of rotating a paywall for their main articles. With luck, this one will turn out to be freely available. Try it & see. --Pete Tillman (talk) 04:40, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Climate section?
We don't have one, and probably should. Noteworthy are such periods as now, when inland high pressure can yield 50-degee F. temp gradients between the beaches and North County (John Lindsay, 7/26/16 forecast). Surely some of the sharpest gradients anywhere. --Pete Tillman (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yesterday was another day of sharp temperature gradients between the coast and the inland valleys. Paso Robles hit 106 degrees yesterday, while Diablo Canyon only reached 56 degrees, a 50 degree temperature differential. -- PG&E DCPP Weather Forecast for Thursday 07/28/16

Census-designated places
Should the CDPs be listed separately from the other unincorporated communities? Patapsco913 (talk) 17:29, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Wrong Input
under transportation it says greyhound bus and links to the greyhound dog page, i dont know how to fix 174.66.157.194 (talk) 18:55, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

 * @174.66.157.194 pls 174.66.157.194 (talk) 18:55, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Done, Fettlemap (talk) 19:00, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:San Luis Obispo County, California


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Talk:San Mateo County, California

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Most Liberal County in California
I have read elsewhere that San Mateo County is one of the most liberal counties in the state of California. With it having the highest ratio of Democrat registered voters compared to Republican registered voters. Is this true? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.114.206.48 (talk) 02:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

IS SIMITIAN THE CURRENT SUPERVISOR?
What is the office term length of a Supervisor? I understand that he has done a wonderful job and is he aspiring to a higher office? Just what is the actual job of Supervisor and does it deal with higher offices in the state? I am writing a paper on the politics of San Mateo County and what the different jobs entail, the length of time elected and if re-electable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.247.33 (talk) 00:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140201215836/http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%200922.html to http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%200922.html

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Park categories
In the list of parks, they are color coded by three categories: Parks and open spaces, Trails, and Historic sites. But many of these parks are members of more than one category. This is not reflected by the list. I'm wondering if this category designation should be abandoned or just modified. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Mateo County, California


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Formula SAE

Formula SAE is a student design competition organized by SAE International (previously known as the Society of Automotive Engineers, SAE). The competition was started in 1980 by the SAE student branch at the University of Texas at Austin after a prior asphalt racing competition proved to be unsustainable.

Concept
The concept behind Formula SAE is that a fictional manufacturing company has contracted a student design team to develop a small Formula-style race car. The prototype race car is to be evaluated for its potential as a production item. The target marketing group for the race car is the non-professional weekend autocross racer. Each student team designs, builds and tests a prototype based on a series of rules, whose purpose is both ensuring on-track safety (the cars are driven by the students themselves) and promoting clever problem solving. There are combustion and electric divisions of the competition, primarily only differing in their rules for powertrain.

The prototype race car is judged in a number of different events. The points schedule for most Formula SAE events is:

In addition to these events, various sponsors of the competition provide awards for superior design accomplishments. For example, best use of E-85 ethanol fuel, innovative use of electronics, recyclability, crash worthiness, analytical approach to design, and overall dynamic performance are some of the awards available. At the beginning of the competition, the vehicle is checked for rule compliance during the Technical Inspection. Its braking ability, rollover stability and noise levels are checked before the vehicle is allowed to compete in the dynamic events (Skidpad, Autocross, Acceleration, and Endurance).

Large companies, such as General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, can have staff interact with more than 1000 student engineers. Working in teams of anywhere between two and 30, these students have proven themselves to be capable of producing a functioning prototype vehicle.

The volunteers for the design judging include some of the racing industry's most prominent engineers and consultants including the late Carroll Smith, Bill Mitchell, Doug Milliken, Claude Rouelle, Jack Auld, John LePlante, Ron Tauranac, and Bryan Kubala.

Today, the competition has expanded and includes more than 12 events all over the world. For example, Formula Student is a similar SAE-sanctioned event in the UK, as well as Formula SAE Australasia (Formula SAE-A) taking place in Australia. The Verein Deutscher Ingenieure (VDI) holds the Formula Student Germany competition at the Hockenheimring.

In 2007, an offshoot called Formula Hybrid was inaugurated. It is similar to Formula SAE, except all cars must have gasoline-electric hybrid power plants. The competition takes place at the New Hampshire International Speedway.

In 2010, the Formula Student Electric was inaugurated, which requires the students to build a fully electrically powered racing vehicle.

In 2017, the Formula Student Driverless was inaugurated.

Student competition
Formula SAE has relatively few performance restrictions. The team must be made up entirely of active college students (including drivers) which places obvious restrictions on available work hours, skill sets, experience, and presents unique challenges that professional race teams do not face with a paid, skilled staff. This restriction means that the rest of the regulations can be much less restrictive than most professional series.

Students are allowed to receive advice and criticism from professional engineers or faculty, but all of the car design must be done by the students themselves. Students are also solely responsible for fundraising, though most successful teams are based on curricular programs and have university-sponsored budgets. Additionally, the points system is organized so that multiple strategies can lead to success. This leads to a great variety among cars, which is a rarity in the world of motorsports.

Engine (IC Competition)
The engine must be a four-stroke, Otto-cycle piston engine with a displacement no greater than 710cc. An air restrictor of circular cross-section must be fitted downstream of the throttle and upstream of any compressor, with a diameter no greater than 20mm for gasoline engines, forced induction or naturally aspirated, or 19mm for ethanol-fueled engines. The restrictor keeps power levels below 100 hp in the vast majority of FSAE cars. Most commonly, production four-cylinder 600cc sport bike engines are used due to their availability and displacement. However, there are many teams that use smaller V-twin and single-cylinder engines, mainly due to their weight-saving and packaging benefits. Very rarely do teams build an engine from scratch, few examples include Western Washington University's 554cc V8 entry in 2001, University of Melbourne's "WATTARD" engine in 2003–2004, and University of Auckland's V twin.

Electric Powertrain (EV Competition)
The accumulator must not have a voltage greater than 600V, but does not have a capacity limit. An energy meter is installed at competition ensuring no more than 80kW are drawn. Most teams elect to use lithium-ion cells, but both lead acid cells as well as other energy storage devices such as capacitors are also permitted — this accounts for the commonly referred battery pack being referred to as an accumulator in this competition. Cell voltages and temperatures must be monitored and individual cell connected via fusible links. These challenges lead many (especially young) teams to use preconfigured cell modules that are connected together in the accumulator enclosure. The competition organizers attempt to prepare teams for competition EV technical inspection by having teams complete an Electrical Safety Form (ESF) prior to competition — this form outlines many of the parts used in the high voltage system as well as design decisions the team is making.

Suspension
The suspension is unrestricted save for safety regulations and the requirement to have 50mm total of wheel travel. Most teams opt for four-wheel independent suspension, almost universally double-wishbone. Active suspension is legal.

Aerodynamics
Complex aerodynamic packages, while not required to compete at competition are common among the fastest teams at competition. With the low speeds of the FSAE competition rarely exceeding 60 mph, designs must be thoroughly justified in the design judging event through wind tunnel testing, computational fluid dynamics, and on track testing. Aerodynamic devices are regulated through maximum size and powered aerodynamic devices are outlawed.

Weight
There is no weight restriction. The weight of the average competitive Formula SAE car is usually less than 440 lb in race trim. However, the lack of weight regulation combined with the somewhat fixed power ceiling encourages teams to adopt innovative weight-saving strategies, such as the use of composite materials, elaborate and expensive machining projects, and rapid prototyping. In 2009 the fuel economy portion of the endurance event was assigned 100 of the 400 endurance points, up from 50. This rules change has marked a trend in engine downsizing in an attempt to save weight and increase fuel economy. Several top-running teams have switched from high-powered four-cylinder cars to smaller, one- or two-cylinder engines which, though they usually make much less power, allow weight savings of 75 lb or more, and also provide much better fuel economy. If a lightweight single-cylinder car can keep a reasonable pace in the endurance race, it can often make up the points lost in overall time to the heavier, high-powered cars by an exceptional fuel economy score.
 * Example: At the 2009 Formula SAE West endurance event, third-place finishers Rochester Institute of Technology completed the endurance course in 22 minutes, 45 seconds with their four-cylinder car, while fourth-place finishers Oregon State University finished in 22 minutes, 47 seconds with their single-cylinder car; this gave RIT 290.6 of 300 points for the race portion of the event and OSU 289.2 points. However, OSU used the least fuel of any car (.671 USgal, or 20.3 mpgus over the entire endurance race) and received the full 100 points for fuel economy, while RIT used 1.163 USgal (11.75 mpgus) and was thus only awarded 23.9 of the available points. RIT went on to win the overall competition by only 8.9 points over OSU, having scored slightly better in all of the other dynamic events.

Safety
The majority of the regulations pertain to safety. Cars must have two steel roll hoops of designated thickness and alloy, regardless of the composition of the rest of the chassis. There must be an impact attenuator in the nose, and impact testing data on this attenuator must be submitted prior to competing. Cars must also have two hydraulic brake circuits, full five-point racing harnesses, and must meet geometric templates for driver location in the cockpit for all drivers competing. Tilt-tests ensure that no fluids will spill from the car under heavy cornering, and there must be no line-of-sight between the driver and fuel, coolant, or oil lines. Electric vehicles are also fitted with a Shutdown Circuit, which is the physical electrical path the current takes that closes the main contactors of the vehicle. All safety buttons, switches, and circuits are part of the Shutdown Circuit such that removing any should make it physically impossible for high voltage to be present outside the accumulator.

History
In 1979 the only SAE Mini-Indy was held at the University of Houston. Conceived by Dr. Kurt M. Marshek, the competition was inspired by a how-to article that appeared in Popular Mechanics magazine, for a small, "Indy-style" vehicle made out of wood, and powered by a five-horsepower Briggs and Stratton engine. Using the Mini Baja competitions as a guide, engineering students had to design and build small, "Indy-style" vehicles using the same stock engine used in the Popular Mechanics article. Thirteen schools entered and eleven competed. The University of Texas at El Paso won the overall competition under chief supervision.

Although Dr. William Shapton (who had recently left the University of Cincinnati to join Michigan Technological University) broached the idea of hosting a similar competition in 1980, no one stepped up to organize another Mini-Indy.

In 1980 when the members of the new SAE student branch at the University of Texas (Austin) learned that the Mini-Indy had died, they generated the concept for a new intercollegiate student engineering design competition that would allow students to apply what they were learning in the classroom to a complex, real-world engineering design problem: design and development of a race car. UT SAE student branch members Robert Edwards and John Tellkamp led a discussion among UT SAE members and envisioned a competition that would involve designing and constructing a race car along the lines of the SCCA Formula 440 entry-level racing series that was popular at the time. Prof. Matthews came up with the “Formula SAE” name following the format of Formula A and Formula Vee but emphasizing that this new race car was an engineering competition rather than a driver's competition. Schools would meet after the end of the academic year to compete and determine who had built the best car. Edwards, Tellkamp, and fellow UT SAE students Joe Green, Dick Morton, Mike Best, and Carl Morris drafted a set of safety and competition rules and presented them to the SAE student branch membership and to UT SAE Faculty Advisor Prof. Ron Matthews. Prof. Matthews then contacted Bob Sechler of the SAE Educational Relations Department at SAE headquarters and asked for his permission both to establish the new intercollegiate student engineering design competition and to host the first Formula SAE competition during the summer of 1981, and he agreed. The newly formed UT SAE branch, consisting mostly of automotive and motorcycle enthusiasts pursuing engineering degrees, including several who had left careers in fields for which the job market had virtually disappeared due to the depressed economy in the early 1980s – including some experienced auto mechanics, embraced and adopted the concept with little idea of what they were getting themselves into. SAE student branch officers Mike Best, Carl Morris, and Sylvia Obregon, along with Dr. Matthews began planning and organizing the event to be held the following year.

Here, it is important to note that Formula SAE was NOT a simple renaming of the Mini-Indy competition but was instead an entirely new intercollegiate student engineering design competition. Unlike all previous SAE-sanctioned student racing/design competitions including Mini-Indy, the Formula SAE rules left the selection of the engine to the design team, as long as a 4 stroke engine with a one-inch diameter intake restrictor was used. (The current Formula SAE rules allow the teams to use 4-stroke engines up to 710 cc, with a smaller restrictor.) Also, unlike all previous SAE-sanctioned student racing/design competitions including Mini-Indy, engine modifications were both allowed and encouraged. The first Formula SAE competition was held in the parking lot of the UT baseball field (Disch-Falk field) on the University of Texas campus on Memorial Day weekend, 1981. Judges included legendary race car engineer/owner/driver and Indy 500 champion Jim Hall. While a sudden Texas rain storm sent everyone scrambling for cover just before the endurance event that day, the weather failed to dampen the spirits of the students, judges, or spectators and Formula SAE was born. The University of Texas continued to host the event from 1982 to 1984 as the popularity and number of participants grew. In these subsequent years, UT moved the Formula SAE competition to other parking areas that included elevation changes and driveway aprons that forced the use of functioning suspensions. The event became international in 1982 with the entry of Universidad La Salle team from Mexico City. The significant rules changes for 1982 were: 1) a displacement limit of 600 cc (300 cc for Wankels), but the 1 inch diameter restrictor rule was retained, 2) a requirement for 4-wheel independent suspension (Mini-Indy did not have any suspension rules), and 3) the addition of a temporary “B&S” class of vehicles that were originally designed for Mini-Baja, had to retain the 8 hp Briggs & Stratton engine, and did not need to comply with the 4-wheel independent suspension rule. Formula SAE continued to be an international competition when the team from Universidad La Salle returned.  With the only engine restrictions being a displacement limit of 600 cc and a 1-inch maximum diameter for the intake, creativity flourished.  Also in 1983, the temporary B&S class was eliminated, the University of Texas at Austin entered the first composite Formula SAE vehicle and Marquette University entered the first turbocharged engine. The rules allowed a Formula SAE car to compete for two years in recognition of the effort required to build and test a quality car. This also allowed students the experience of re-engineering and improving on design elements that did not work. The rules for 1984 specifically allowed turbochargers, superchargers, and use of nitrous oxide but the engine had to breathe through a 25.4 mm exit bore of the carburetor casting (1984 was well before electronic fuel injection). Engine intake restrictors were later tightened as cars became faster year over year as knowledge was passed on within and between teams. Also, a 65-100 inch wheelbase rule was promulgated, as was a rule requiring all vehicles to have a “body that resembles a formula car”. The Formula SAE field had grown to eleven cars in 1984, so the University of Texas at Austin decided that the competition had matured sufficiently that it was safe to pass it on to other hosts.

The University of Texas at Austin hosted the competition through 1984. In 1985, the competition was hosted by The University of Texas at Arlington. There, Dr. Robert Woods, with guidance from the SAE student activities committee, changed the concept of the competition from one where students built a pure racing car, to one that mirrored the SAE Mini-Baja competitions, where they were to design and build a vehicle for limited series production.

General Motors hosted the competition in 1991, Ford Motor Co. in 1992, and Chrysler Corp. in 1993. After the 1992 competition, the three formed a consortium to run Formula SAE.

At the end of the 2008 competition, the consortium ceased to exist. The event is now funded by SAE through company sponsorships and donations along with the teams' enrollment fees.

title: Formula SAE


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Talk:Santa Cruz County, California

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Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry? The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help.

Moved material on Winemaking and corresponding source from Sonoma County, California page.

--Skinnerbird 20:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Here is a more complete list of endangered species in Santa Cruz County, for someone who has the time to incorporate it. (http://www.santacruzpl.org/ref/endang/endang.shtml) --Andy M. 06:03, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Prop. 8 (gay marriage) by counties
I would like to include data about votes on cultural issues, such as propositiion 8. This last Tuesday there was also a vote on parental consent by minors, and that might also be worth including.

It would take time to add data for all California counties. I started with 3 Silicon Valley counties because they caught my interest. Now I am awaiting discussion before proceeding further. Scott Tillinghast, Houston TX (talk) 06:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Adjacent Counties chart...
I'm not a fan. I'd like to remove it. Discussion? —  X   S   G   03:29, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Like I stated in my reply to XSG, if we're going to remove it from THIS county article, then we remove it from ALL CA county articles. This family of articles needs to have some semblance of uniformity, it's an encyclopedia. I've already made my case for uniformity and its benefits in the afore-mentioned reply, those that are interested can access it there. Edit Centric (talk) 04:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Another point that I would like to make here is the removal and / or exclusion of content based upon the I don't like it argument. Come on, now. Edit Centric (talk) 05:49, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I felt it prudent at this point to cross-post my concerns regarding this topic here, so that no one has to go bouncing back and forth between here and XSG's talk page to get the jist of what I'm trying to say. - CROSSPOSTED - I am trying to push for article uniformity here, as right now there are way too many structural differences across this family of articles.

 * What does article uniformity accomplish? I will tell you. Article uniformity makes it far easier to recognise when someone logs in from an unregistered IP, and intentionally removes entire sections of an article, like what happened HERE and HERE. These instances of IP vandalism did not get caught until I did my review of ALL CA county articles a few days ago. In fact, the former instance was perpetrated back in 2007! Had these articles been identically structured and then policed on a regular basis, the IP vandalism would have been caught much sooner.

 * If we're going to exclude the geo compass from Santa Cruz County, then we should remove it from ALL CA county articles, simply for the sake of article uniformity.

 * What I'm not a big fan of is having BOTH the geo compass and the text list of adjacent counties. It seems redundant somehow. If we (the editors working on these articles) are actually going to DO something about this, I think we need to consider which format is;
 * more aesthetically pleasing
 * more accurate
 * serving the reader better
 * ...and then go with that. (END OF CROSS-POST) Edit Centric (talk) 06:50, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I find the Geo compass to be less aesthetically pleasing and no more accurate than the text-based material to which it was redundant. If our interest is in serving the reader better (which it is), we should be implementing a map identifying the subject and its adjacent class of subjects instead of implementing a text-based and general table trying to demonstrate the same thing.  The Geo compass is not an improvement over the previous material.  I'd also like to add that the Geo compass isn't very friendly to mobile-based (i.e. very small) browsers.
 * Also, there was no discussion on my statement of dislike over the last month-and-a-half. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is for article deletion discussions, not discussions on the inclusion of material in an article, and is an example of where an argument isn't really an argument, making the editor's statement as merely a vote, which is useless in deletion discussions.  I agree that "I don't like it" doesn't stand up to further argument, however it's a perfectly justifiable reason to begin a discussion about the removal of good-faith edits. —   X   S   G   18:11, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record, I'm presently working on creating a graphic for the aforementioned improvement. —  X   S   G   19:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Alright! Now that we have the discussion started, I'd first like to apologise to XSG. I (like a fool!) didn't look and compare the date of my edit with the date of his "I'd like to remove" statement, and got a little miffed. For that, I again issue my mea culpa, honestly and whole-heartedly.

 * On the case of the geo compass XSG, your claim that it is not an improvement over the previous material is a subjective statement at best, and should be preceeded with "I feel" or "I opine", because that is exactly what the statement is, your personal opinion. I opine that the opposite is true; that due to the placement of directional arrows, the geo compass box serves to illustrate the direction that each county lies in to the reader. (Why do you think that every map ever created has a compass in the corner?) At any rate, these are both opinions. No one better or worse than the other.

 * I AM enthused about the graphic that you say you're creating though! May we see it? Edit Centric (talk) 19:27, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Some other thoughts here, XSG. You say you have a graphical improvement for the adjacent counties. Is this solely for Santa Cruz County, or can this be done for all CA county articles? Either way, any map graphic should have a compass included to at least indicate north. In any case, it sounds like you're on to something...

 * In the meantime, what we need to figure out here is which interim solution is more appropriate, based upon consensus across the article family. We still haven't addressed the issue of cross-article uniformity, and I'd like your thoughts on that one. I know you're solely interested in the Santa Cruz area articles, possibly because you live in that area. XSG, there IS a "greater good" here that must be considered. This may be a chance for you to branch out.

 * I see that your expertise is in info and statistics. Mine is in geography, map reading and navigation, (I don't own a GPS, I'm just that good!) highways, grammatical corrections and proofreading. Between us, I'm sure that we can make some great contributions here! Edit Centric (talk) 19:56, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Even a "greater good" is subjective, as there are varied and sometimes competing goals. I'm creating a section below to work on what I hope will become the general idea of a replacement for the Geo compass text area.  Yes, it's repeatable.  It'd take work, of course, but I think the work will result in a general improvement of the understanding of county adjacency. —   X   S   G   20:04, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Graphical Compass Replacement
This is an attempt to use Wikipedia's features in order to overlay linked text atop an SVG. Unless noted below, it is a work in progress and may contain errors. Please feel free to provide constructive editing. —  X   S   G   20:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * A style note. The article's subject appears as a blue link above, however when placed in the article it will appear black and bold.  This is related to how Wikipedia renders links to an article from that same article.

 * Hey, that's not half bad at all! Could stand a little clean-up maybe, but definitely goes toward what we're aiming for. How does it do in contrast to the geo compass when displayed on mobile? Edit Centric (talk) 20:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just added it to the main article so I could review using my G1. It's really sharp.  I've removed it from the article, once again, for the sake of discussion.  Knowing what I do now about creating this content, I'd say that it'd take about fifteen minutes per county to create.  I'm happy to document the process as well, of course. —   X   S   G   20:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Looks like a winner! The issues that I can already see with it, although none are insurmountable, are as follows;

 * Images will need to be created and uploaded for each county. There are a lot!
 * Each image needs it's associated copyright info attached, or else you end up with what you got on your talk page.
 * The borders need to be smoothed some, but look good overall.
 * If you want to create these for each CA county, all the better! It's been quite some time since I worked with XY coordinate stuff, the last time was on the Apple IIe, I think the program was called Logo (or something to that effect!) Edit Centric (talk) 21:08, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 10 one external links on Santa Cruz County, California. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110531210815/http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/FindACounty.aspx to http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/FindACounty.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov

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External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.census.gov/prod/www/decennial.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060502190456/http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/sov/2004_general/sov_2004_entire.pdf to http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/sov/2004_general/sov_2004_entire.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131103000000/http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/ror-odd-year-2013/political-sub.pdf to http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/ror-odd-year-2013/political-sub.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131202222315/http://stats.doj.ca.gov/cjsc_stats/prof09/00/11.pdf to http://stats.doj.ca.gov/cjsc_stats/prof09/00/11.pdf
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census charts
Is it just my computer's display (chromebook browser) or are the "places by population and race" and "places by population and income" tables missing column labels? Lucy Kemnitzer (talk) 12:41, 7 October 2021 (UTC)Lucy Kemnitzer
 * You are correct. Those table templates have provision for column headings, but they are not present in these two tables. In the "View history" tab, you can find which editor added those tables, and send them a polite note. WCCasey (talk) 15:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Apparent error in Politics section (wrong Congressional representatives and districts)
I have lived and voted in Santa Cruz County since the mid-70s, and my representative is neither Zoe Lofgren nor Kevin McCarthy; it's Jimmy Panetta. This goes all the way back to his father, Leon Panetta, with no changes to the district that I'm aware of. The article (as of 1/10/23) states: "Santa Cruz County is split between California's 18th and 20th congressional districts, represented by Zoe Lofgren (D–San Jose) and Kevin McCarthy (R–Bakersfield), respectively." Santa Cruz County is adjacent to San Jose, but hundreds of miles from Bakersfield. Not sure how this error got into Wikipedia. The only citations for the inaccurate statement simply link to the articles on Lofgren and McCarthy. Kevintimba (talk) 03:24, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This has been fixed. WCCasey (talk) 15:55, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Santa Cruz County, California


text:
Talk:Shasta County, California

Untitled
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Mount Shasta - not in Shasta County
Mount Shasta is not in Shasta County; it is in Siskiyou County. Lassen Peak and Lassen National Park are in Lassen County, not Shasta County. I do not feel comfortable editing the page, but if someone else would like to do it, it would be more accurate information than what is there now.

title: Talk:Shasta County, California


text:
Talk:Sierra County, California

Alleghany Link
The link to Alleghany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleghany) goes to a bunch of places in West Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania. Would somebody who knows how to edit web pages create a new stub that gives a tiny bit of information on the Alleghany in Sierra County, California? Pretty Please?

Martin Eagleton 18:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Calpine Link
The link to Calpine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calpine) goes to the Calpine Corporation. It needs to be redirected to the town of Calpine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calpine%2C_California, which is currently a stub. The stub should have a link that goes to the corporation, but again, I don't know how to edit web pages (yet).

Martin Eagleton 18:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Forest Link
The link to "Forest" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest) is weird. Since it's in the list of Cities and towns, I expect it to link to a town in Sierra County. Instead, it links to the generic "forest" topic. I wondered if there is actually a town of Forest in Sierra County, and found a map with a Forest City. With an internet search, I found: http://www.ghosttownexplorers.org/california/forestcity/forestcity.htm, which gives a bit of history and some nice photos of this tiny ghost town. Again, I'm ignorant of how to edit web pages, but would love to see a stub to the real Forest City in Sierra County, with a link to the ghosttownexplorers.org page.

Martin Eagleton 18:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Loyalton Map
This page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalton%2C_California) is what got me started as an editor of Wikipedia pages. (Or in my case, a whiner about obvious errors that I don't know how to fix.) The map in the upper right shows California divided into counties, with Modoc County highlighted, rather than Sierra County. The adjacent graphic correctly shows Sierra County, with the town of Loyalton shown in the correct location. Clicking on the map gives a bigger version of the map, which - again - incorrectly highlights Modoc County. I would love to fix it, but don't know how. Please help. Thanks.

Martin Eagleton 18:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry? The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help.

I made a page for Forest, CA, but it still needs a little bit of work, such as the settlement chart and all that. -mrgooseskin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrgooseskin (talk • contribs) 03:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Table without header row
The table under "Cities by population and voter registration" contains information on what column means what, but even expanded, this information is not visible so the meaning of the columns is not knowable without viewing the source code.

I have no idea how to fix this problem, alas. 67.188.1.213 (talk) 21:49, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sierra County, California


text:
Talk:Siskiyou County, California

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moving images
Thanks for the info about 800x600 screens. I'm going to move the Mossbrae image closer to the reference to waterfalls. Let me know if it causes any readability problems in the new location. NorCalHistory 04:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

 * MESSAGE FOR NORCALHIST - Man, I DO love that picture of Shasta being at the top of the article, as I also love seeing the mountain IRL whenever I get the chance to get up that way. However, I've noticed that having it there kind of cramps the TOC off to the right, that's why I had moved it down and tabled it in with the Adjacent Counties list. I checked it in 800x600, and it does the same thing, even worse. (I operate in 1020x768, so I have to reset my rez whenever I do these checks..) I'm gonna hesitate moving it back this time, until I can get some feedback from you on your thoughts about this one. (Co-op mode!) I'll give it about a week, then re-adjust if I haven't heard anything, so we can move forward with the article. Edit Centric 17:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, the TOC box creates a lot of dead space at the top of most articles - valuable space that, it turns out can be filled with visual information! Here, the TOC is there and available for anyone to use (it's a pretty short article so I expect the TOC use is minimal), but more importantly, all that valuable eyeball real estate up there is not blank! NorCalHistory 18:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Very true, and your opinion does connect with mine on the whitespace. On the flipside of the coin, I'd like to see the article grow a bit, so the TOC will be of more importance. Also, for the sake of uniformity (lends a modicum of credence to an otherwise beleaguered reference site,) and consistency, the TOC should be present in the same location on each page. Given that the user can always hide the TOC if he or she wishes, it aides in ease of use to always have it there on the left-alignment. BY THE WAY!! Maybe you can help with this, many of the Info boxes on each county page are missing the county seal(s). As I create each info box, I'm using a template from Imperial County, and then filling in and changing the info to reflect the county that it is being applied to, which is leaving some dead or erroneous links to county seal graphics that do not exist by that name. Any ideas? Edit Centric 01:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Siskiyou County, California. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131029224349/http://www.fishingworks.com/lakes/california/siskiyou/ to http://www.fishingworks.com/lakes/california/siskiyou/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130525204051/http://www.globaltwitcher.com/artspec_info.asp?thingid=82383 to http://www.globaltwitcher.com/artspec_info.asp?thingid=82383
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131202222315/http://stats.doj.ca.gov/cjsc_stats/prof09/00/11.pdf to http://stats.doj.ca.gov/cjsc_stats/prof09/00/11.pdf

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South Township
There is a South Township in the 1860, 1870 and 1880 US Census for Siskiyou County, but I haven't been able to find a document referencing this place on Google to use as a citation on Wikipedia. Since we're not allowed to use original research here, such a source is required. The 1860 Census record I viewed said the local post office was Callahans, which I gather was Callahan's Ranch, established as a post office in 1858 and became Callahan in 1892. The 1870 Census record noted the post office in Etna, and the 1880 record was simply South Twp. There should be either a South Township article or a redirect set up to point to whatever municipality South Twp became, seems to me. Pnoble805 (talk) 01:02, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Siskiyou County, California


text:
Talk:Solano County, California

Untitled
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Collinsville
Between Suisun City and Rio Vista, there is a place south of Highway 12 called Collinsville. Should this be included in cities/towns? It might be census-designated. --Geopgeop 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Population
Where does the population quoted come from? The United States Census Bureau gives a 2000 population of 394,542. Skinsmoke (talk) 17:20, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Solano County location
Though the County is not officially in the Central Valley, portions of it most certainly extend into the Central Valley, geographically. This is important, and though it may not be necessary in the lead, it could be stated in the article. Food for thought. Norcalal (talk) 05:00, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Adjusted reference to the Central Valley to a sentence in the Region section, geographically speaking only. Norcalal (talk) 05:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It is true that the county lines were drawn without regard to geographical region, that the county extends eastward into Central Valley. Binksternet (talk) 13:39, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Death certificate. About Adam Michael Escobedo
Death certificate about my Borther Adam M Escobedo 73.202.62.109 (talk) 19:05, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Solano County, California


text:
User:Neolux

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title: User:Neolux


text:
Talk:Sonoma County, California

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Sonoma County American Viticultural Areas
For the record, here are Sonoma County's 11 distinct (and 2 shared) American Viticultural Areas, in case someone actually writes articles on them and the links become active:

 * Alexander Valley
 * Bennett Valley
 * Chalk Hill
 * Dry Creek Valley
 * Knights Valley
 * Los Carneros (shared with Napa County)
 * North Coast (large district which includes part of Sonoma County)
 * Northern Sonoma
 * Rockpile
 * Russian River Valley
 * Sonoma Coast
 * Sonoma County Green Valley
 * Sonoma Mountain
 * Sonoma Valley

Sonoma County Wineries
Also for the record are the wineries from the old list in the main article, wikilinked so that if someone does write articles on them, they'll become noticeably active:

 * Benziger Family Winery
 * Benziger Winery
 * Buena Vista Winery
 * Chateau Souverain
 * Chateau St. Jean
 * Clos Du Bois Wines
 * Deerfield Ranch Winery
 * Frei Brothers Winery
 * Gallo of Sonoma Winery
 * Hartford Court
 * Imagery Estates
 * Inman Family Wines
 * J Vineyards & Winery
 * Kendall-Jackson Wine Estates
 * Kenwood Vineyards
 * La Crema Winery
 * Matanzas Creek Winery
 * Rancho Zabaco Winery
 * Ravenswood Winery
 * Russian Hill Estate Wines
 * Sebastiani Vineyards and Winery
 * St. Francis Vineyard and Winery
 * Sonoma-Cutrer Vineyards
 * Stonestreet Winery
 * Valley of the Moon Winery
 * White Oak Vineyards

Names minus "Winery"
 * Benziger Family
 * Benziger
 * Buena Vista (winery)
 * Chateau Souverain
 * Chateau St. Jean
 * Clos Du Bois Wines
 * Deerfield Ranch
 * Frei Brothers
 * Gallo of Sonoma
 * Hartford Court
 * Imagery Estates
 * Inman Family Wines
 * J Vineyards
 * Kendall-Jackson
 * Kenwood Vineyards
 * La Crema
 * Matanzas Creek
 * Rancho Zabaco
 * Ravenswood (winery)
 * Russian Hill Estate Wines
 * Sebastiani Vineyards
 * St. Francis Vineyard
 * Sonoma-Cutrer Vineyards
 * Stonestreet
 * Valley of the Moon (winery)
 * White Oak Vineyards

--Calton | Talk 07:50, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Item on David Bruce Winery and the 1976 Paris Judgement has been moved to the Santa Cruz County, California page because the winery in question was in that county:

 * The Santa Cruz vineyard of the David Bruce Winery (with vineyards in both Sonoma and Santa Cruz counties) was selected for competition in the historic Paris Wine Tasting of 1976, which revolutionized the world of wine (Tabor, p.167-169).

The corresponding reference was also moved

--Skinnerbird 20:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The long winery list in this article is cumbersome and probably should go into a separate article with branching ref in this article. what do others think? Anlace 18:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Unincorporated Settlements
All unincorporated settlements (some mostly historic) added for someone to expand. Taken from USGS maps and Compass Maps' Santa Rosa and Sonoma, Petaluma and Sonoma County (ISBN 156575235X). At the time of purchase (circa 1995), this map was very outdated, but the settlement names match entries on USGS maps for Sonoma County.

--Skinnerbird 08:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Since the cities and unicorporated settlements are in both the main article and at the end in a template box, perhaps they should just be in one place.

--skinnerbird 18:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Darned Wikitable
One thing I noticed while checking the results of the Geo and Transpo realignment, is that the Wikitable of national claims to the land is not displaying properly. The text seems to be overlapping into the flag cells... Edit Centric 19:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmm, must have been a screen glitch, cleared my browser cache, went back, and now it's displaying properly. Again, hmm... Edit Centric 07:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Months later, I see it this way too. Do others? Maybe there's something wrong with the Wikitable?

overly cumbersome lists
The lengths of the wineries and film sections are out of balance with needed breadth of coverage in other expansion areas. perhaps each (wineries and films) should have its own separate sub article. this article badly needs expansion on such topics as geology, history, prehistory, ecology, land use and culture. so the breadth issues must be proportionate to the topic importance. what do others think? Anlace 18:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

 * As a Sonoma County resident for more than 50 years, I agree the article doesn't cover the fundamental topics you cited. Wineries and tourism have become Sonoma County's major industries, but this page doesn't need to list more than the major wineries and vineyards.  -- Mukrkrgsj 02:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I like the list of wineries and movies. But there is so much more to talk about. My suggestion would be to format the lists into a more managable space. I think the wineries are fine how they are, but the movies definately can be improved. I'm willing to go over the whole thing and reformat stuff, but I'm not going to do it if it ends up just being reverted. So If I get a general OK in here, I'll be happy to fix up the article. Sue Rangell 02:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Sue. I think we generally agree with Anlace, that "geology, history, prehistory, ecology, land use and culture" (among others) are the significant topics.  Speaking only for myself, I may further edit the wineries section as time permits, but I have little interest in the list of movies made here.  Btw, the Santa Rosa article has a long list of movies.  -- Mukrkrgsj 00:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I just did a MAJOR rework of the wineries section, I hope everyone likes it, I really put a lot of work into it. Sue Rangell 04:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: After many hours of work, the formattiong is done. Work was done on all of the big clumsy lists. No data has been changed added or deleted, only beautifying. (Adding a few hundred tiny edits) my fingers hurt, but the page is beautiful now. I am recommending it for a featured page. Sue Rangell [ citation needed ] 01:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * One explanation for all the "overly cumbersome lists" here, is that the "WikiProject U.S. Counties standards" page recommends them! Likewise, what's here so far appears to follow the recommended template fairly closely.  Click on the link at the top of this page. -- Mukrkrgsj 15:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Nomination for featured page ...and defacement

 * After almost five months this article contains the same problems that Anlace brought up originally:
 * "The lengths of the wineries and film sections are out of balance with needed breadth of coverage in other expansion areas. ...
 * this article badly needs expansion on such topics as geology, history, prehistory, ecology, land use and culture.
 * so the breadth issues must be proportionate to the topic importance. what do others think?
 * I think you should be listened to, Anlace. Also, Mukrkrgs brought up tourism, a major industry in Sonoma County, and there's not a single word about tourism in the article.  This article needs vast improvement, please listen to these editors Anlace and Mukrkrgs and their suggestions, as they are right on target.  Please withdraw this from FAC until you have reviewed the criteria for FAC.  Lists are lists, a different type of article on Wikipedia.  If you want to make lists, that is fine, please do so.  But an article is not simply a collection of lists, it's something people can read, not search if a specific thing is there, or how many.   Please add prose sections to all  of the lists that develop the context of the list and make the lists separate articles by themselves.   Thanks.  KP Botany 03:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, of course; but I don't see the benefit of hanging three banners at the top, and eight more below, to criticize the volunteer contributors for their lack of progress on this article. -- Mukrkrgsj 07:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * The point is to identify explicitly what needs to be done, through the banners, which also alert users, not just editors, that there is a problem with the article and/or section, and this needs fixed, and Wikipedia is aware of the problem. The interior banners show that introductory sections need to be added to these places, to identify, as requested by one editor, exactly what needs fixed.   Anlace brought the issues up, and instead of being attended to over the last 5 months the article is up for FAC!KP Botany 08:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand, and I've already agreed the article needs a great deal of work. But Wikipedia is written by unpaid volunteer amateurs, for the sheer joy of doing it. Knowing that some monitor is looking over my shoulder, and measuring my work against Wiki's rigid standards, takes the joy out of contributing to worthy articles like this. -- Mukrkrgsj 12:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Knowing that some monitor is looking over my shoulder has greatly improved the quality of my articles. Wikipedia may be written for the sheer joy, but it has a huge market share on where people go to get information, and it has some responsibility to the users.  This article simply needs a tremendous amount of work, and the editor who nominated it for FAC simply will not look at the FAC criteria or do anything to improve the article and make it a FAC.  There may also be some issues with User:Sue Rangell also--see her talk page history, but I will bring it up at WP:AN/I.

 * You also are ignoring the most important point, these banners may bring other competent editors to this article to improve it. This article needs some serious editing. Let's let those who can do so, do it. Mukrkrgs, let's you and I put this on hold for a while, until Sue Rangell is identified. KP Botany 18:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

KP Botany, I'm not sure why you are doing this. While not absolutely perfect, I still think that this will make a very nice featured article. I get the impression that you are more concerned with torpedoing the article, than improving it. I'm not sure why. A lot of us have put a lot of work into this article, and you should let it have it's shot. I would be more sympathetic if you had shown intrest in the article PRIOR to it's nomination, but you didn't. I think you are being a negative-Nelly. Your banners 12 of them! amount to defacement in my opinion, and I hope you will consider taking them down..Sue Rangell [ citation needed ] 17:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Sue, I don't think User:Nesbit's user page is copyrighted, but I do think that if you copy extensively from his user page and represent his interests and statements as your identity, you are misrepresenting yourself to the Wikipedia community, and this causes me concern about your editing this or any other article on Wikipedia. I believe your sources, or lack of sources, simply must be checked immediately.  I will not be dealing with you until this matter of your claimed identity is resolved.  KP Botany 18:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, that would seem to be between me and Nesbit, don't you think? And I fail to understand what any of that has to do with this article. Also, I won't edit war with you or anyone else, so stop trying to bait me. I don't even want to argue with anyone, so stop trying to bait me there too. I'm not sure what you're about or where your coming from, but I'm not your enemy, nor will I ever be, nor will I get into any sort of fruitless discussion with you or anyone else. This page is for discussion of the Sonoma County page, not about who you think I may or may not be. Sue Rangell [ citation needed ] 18:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Good Luck my Freinds
Guys I'm really sorry about all the negativity that came up over the nomination. It's a very nice page, but I can't handle the personal attacks I've endured for the past three days just for nominating it. I've been called a clone, a spy, everything else under the sun, even endured two complaints posted on the admin talk pages over this crap. I don't do well with psychos, so I'll be moving on. I feel terrible about it, but the last thing I ever expected was to pick up a wikistalker. You gotta love someone who is completely unheard of, then once the page is nominated, shows up and plasters the page with 12 warning banners and begins personally attacking people until the nomination is withdrawn. (Yes I withdrew it) ...and then disappears again.

I'm sorry about the rant, but I needed it off my chest. Feel free to delete it if it's offensive. I truly am sorry about the trouble. I still think it's a great article, and yes I still think it's worthy of Featured Article Status, considering some of the Featured Articles are not as good in my opinion. Sonoma County is one of the most beautiful places in the world, and I hope it get's a featured Article someday. Good luck with it guys, that's from the heart. It's time for me to go.

Sue Rangell [ citation needed ] 01:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Time to tackle the lists
Well we have made a lot of progress on this article. Regarding the lists, i propose the following:

1. for the cities list, put only the unincorporated entities in list form. the incorporated cities are already in text form and no reason to duplicate. The adjacent counties can be covered in one text sentence.

 * Finished as of now. Anlace 04:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

2. for the wineries, i propose a new sub-article called Sonoma County wineries that would take the list and we can write a short summary section on history and standing of the Sonoma County AVAs. I, in fact, just found that there already exists a list article called List of wineries in Santa Rosa, California, so, alternatively, we could update that list (to include all the county wineries) and use that vehicle to streamline the Sonoma County article.

3. create a new subarticle for the film locations. Anlace 16:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * On 2 be sure to check form for other counties and their wineries, and either copy, or if appropriate suggest a form according to naming conventions, etc. There are many more wineries in Sonoma County than in Santa Rosa, so are you suggesting subsume the Santa Rosa wineries?  That would work, but it might be a pet list.  Also, I think the history of wineries in Sonoma is longer than the usual text in a list article.   Good work thus far.  KP Botany 03:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Your point is a good one, which i was actually ruminating. Better to create a new article called Sonoma County wineries, so that the important history, AVA discussion, etc. can be covered and not just a big list.  In any case i was thinking the list (within the new sub-article) should cover the whole county, not just the santa rosa wineries.  Anlace 04:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and: 1. Suggest describing the smaller towns, and eventually deleting the table. 2. Recommend adding the Sonoma County wineries subarticle. I think many users will be looking for major articles about Wine Country appellations, vineyards, wineries, winemakers, and wines, and these should be separate from the Sonoma County page. 3. Recommend the new film subarticle. --Mukrkrgsj 00:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes to the Introduction
The introduction has been edited to read:

 * "In prehistoric times Sonoma County was the home to several distinct Native American tribes, who lived within the carrying capacity of the land; by 1850, European settlement had set a new direction that would prove to radically alter the course of land use and resource management of this region."

True, the Pomo, Coast Miwok, and Wappo Indians were small bands of hunter/gatherers, and the increased numbers and technology of European settlers have profoundly altered the environment. I argue locally against continuous growth and development for private profit, but I'm not comfortable with this land use/carrying capacity/resource management approach to history here. Comments? The intro continues:

 * "As of 2007 Sonoma County has rich agricultural land capability, and has also preserved considerable forested area, beach habitat and other open space; these preservation efforts are products of an electorate that is aware of the value of resource conservation, expressed through an open space initiative[1] that has provided considerable funding for public acquisition of natural areas."

If the previous sentence is kept, I would edit this one to read:

"As of 2007, Sonoma County still has rich agricultural land. The voters have twice approved an open space initiative that has provided considerable funding for public acquisition of natural areas, which has preserved forested areas, beach habitat, and other open spaces."

Let me note here that:

1) The great majority of Sonoma County "agriculture" today is grapegrowing, to make wine, and is criticized as "monoculture";

2) The voters have twice approved a sales tax surcharge for the SCAP&OSD, but they can't control its administration by local politicians and their appointees, most of whom represent an entrenched local establishment of businessmen and developers;

3) The OSD has been criticized for spending millions of taxpayer dollars to buy intangible "development rights"--frequently for rural estates in no danger of development--whereas the voters thought the money would be spent to deter urban sprawl in the Santa Rosa Plain, and create greenbelt community separators.

Comments? -- Mukrkrgsj 01:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

 * good points mukrkrgs. i have made additional edits to attempt to respond to the issues you have advanced. regards. Anlace 20:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Resources section
the article section named "Resources" is very strange. it generally offers generic sites....not specific to the county at all. this section should be evaluated critically and most of it dismantled. What the article needs badly is more line note references. Anlace 03:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I recently alphabetized the section, and didn't see anything specific to this article. It could be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mukrkrgsj (talk • contribs) 07:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

Threatened/endangered species
Anlace added the sentence, "Endemic endangered species to Sonoma County include the Pitkin Marsh lily, Lilium pardalinum ssp Pitkinense." Shouldn't this go at the end of the preceeding paragraph?

 * "A number of endangered plants and animals are found in Sonoma County including the California clapper rail, Salt Marsh Harvest Mouse, Northern Red-legged Frog, Sacramento splittail, California freshwater shrimp, Showy Indian clover, Hickman's potentilla, and the Pitkin Marsh lily, Lilium pardalinum ssp Pitkinense."

You've done so much good work here, I hesitate to edit your contributions without consultation. -- Mukrkrgsj 20:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * the distinction here is "endemic". not all the endangered species listed here are endemic, as the Pitkin Marsh lily. Endemic plants have a special meaning to their endemic areas and are worth singling out.  Salt marsh harvest mouse and Northern red legged frog are not endemic strictly to sonoma county but occur in a somewhat larger area. moreover i have performed additional edits to note some of the other endemics. regards. Anlace 23:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The list in the first paragraph doesn't say the plants and animals are "endemic"--i.e., native here and only here. I created the second paragraph to add the "species of special local concern" not only because they had not been listed, but because they are the species of greatest concern to local developers, politicians, and environmentalists.

The lily has not been among the "species of special local concern"; and breaking out the Sebastopol Meadowfoam to note that it's "endemic" destroyed the sense of the paragraph.

I've created a new paragraph to break out the species that are "endemic" here, in the technical sense. "Endemic" is not an everyday word for most people. The Online Dictionary briefly defines it as:

 * 1. Prevalent in or peculiar to a particular locality, region, or people: diseases endemic to the tropics. See Synonyms at native.
 * 2. Ecology Native to or confined to a certain region.

I think most people who use the word use it in the more general first sense. I don't know if Wikipedia has a policy, but I would think it would encourage using the word in the sense the average user is likely to understand it. -- Mukrkrgsj 02:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Endemic (ecology) is a very commonly linked term in Wikipedia; it is used in over 1000 articles, and we certainly dont need to water it down for the Sonoma County article. I have linked it to the proper Wikipedia article. Anlace 02:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I edited the brief articles on Endemic (ecology), Indigenous (ecology), and Native, to correct some errors and contradictions. If you have time, please review them for accuracy. -- Mukrkrgsj 03:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Endangered (or extirpated) species I know of include the northern spotted owl, white sturgeon (believed extirpated), marbled murrelets and coho salmon. I would say that I will find sources later, and wanted to note this, until I can find sources, but the article's section on endangered species does not have sources. I'll try to find sources anyway for this section. Isonomia01 (talk) 01:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Naming Conventions
I have lived in guerneville for almost 16 years, and i have never heard someone call highway 116 "Guerneville Highway." I have heard pocket canyon and 116 but not Guerneville HighwayJollyjoegiant 01:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hwy 116 goes through a plethora of name changes. It runs from Hwy 1 on the coast east to Guerneville. When it reaches Guerneville, it is called "Main Street from the Safeway to the second stoplight. From the second stoplight, it makes a right turn southeast and becomes Pocket Canyon Rd. to downtown Forestville, where it is called "Front Street." It turns right again at the elementary school and heads toward Sebastopol. This section is the Gravenstein Hwy North. and it called this down to Cotati, except where it passes through Sebastopol. There it called Healdsburg Avenue up to the church/Safeway. Then it makes another right turn and becomes North Main Street. It then changes to South Main after crossing Bodega Hwy. When it rejoins northbound traffic, it becomes Gravenstein Hwy South to Cotati. Then it runs along Hwy 101 to Petaluma, exits and goes east to Sonoma where it endures more name changes through Napa County and onward.

There is no Guerneville Hwy, but there is a Guerneville Rd. from Hwy 101 in Santa Rosa to Gravenstein Hwy N. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.72.217.50 (talk) 17:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I concur. And I am changing the article to reflect this. Isonomia01 (talk) 01:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

GA Review
This article does not meet the Good Article criteria, and will not be listed at the present time. There are numerous short sections, and lists, and the use of citations is insufficient (lots of unsourced sections). While 100% of the article does not need to be cited for GA status, important information, such as numbers & statistical figures, and information that is likely to be challenged, should be. There should generally be at least a couple of citations in each main section with no 'citation needed' or other warning tags. Furthermore, citations should be formatted per WP:CITE, and external link (non-inline) citations should be converted to inline format.

The lead section should provide a good summary of the article as a whole. It would help to review WP:LEAD for guidelines on how to improve this.

Subsection titles should ideally be short and concise. there are several subsection titles which could be written better (e.g. 'geography' instead of 'geography and environment'). See WP:MSH for pertinent guidelines here. I would also recommend changing the order of sections a bit; ideally, it would help to start with the etymology section, followed by history, then geography, demographics, and economy. Beyond that, the order is negotiable, but many geography-related articles seem to follow this general introduction of sections, as the information contained in them is usually sought after by readers first.

Some information about climate should be added to the geography section.

The history section is way too short, and completely uncited. The table with individual national flags in it doesn't seem to be adding much to the content, and the information in it might be better done as prose. The flag icons can pretty much go without any major loss to the article (they may look cool, but in the end, it's just image-cruft, and really just adding to increased download times for the page).

The etymology section seems to have good information, but could be rewritten and condensed a bit. Try to avoid the repetition of the phrase 'according to' in back-to-back paragraphs.

The demographics section just contains bot-generated census 2000 data, which is acceptable at a minimum, but doesn't go into too much detail beyond basic census data. A better discussion of the different ethnic groups and people of the area, and how they interact could be added, and the bot-generated text should be rewritten.

The government section has the minimum necessary information, but more could be provided about politics and significant issues. Where's the county seat? The external link references should be converted to inline format.

The cities and towns section is just one big list in an ugly table with lots of red links. It might be better to eliminate this section entirely, and make a template with the names of the major cities and towns in it, in smaller font. Minor 'census-designated places' don't need to be listed. You could also move this to a list on a separate page, linked to under the 'see also' section.

Places of interest and transportation are just lists. These should be converted to prose. Consider renaming 'places of interest' to 'culture', and talk more about the overall culture of the region. The little highway marker images in the 'transportation' section should be removed as well, for the same reasons as the aforementioned flag icons. Try to reduce the use of 2nd/3rd level headings.

Try to reduce the 2nd level headings under economy as well, instead talking about the economy in such a way that everything is mentioned together. Each individual segment of the economy doesn't need it's own subsection header. Discuss the overall economy here, without going into super-minute details of individual industries. The 'see main article' links need to be wikified according to the manual of style.

The politics section contains a single table with no prose to put any of that information into context. The table appears to contain presidential election results for the county by who voted for what party, which doesn't say squat about the actual local politics, and is really not very notable with regards to the individual county (it could go). I would think politics should be better covered with the government section anyway, so merge the section with government.

Education is just a list. Should be converted to prose. Merge the information about the library system into a single section called 'education', since it's all related. Lists of schools are also only a small part of a discussion on education. The section should cover more information, like the population and demographics of the student population, overall quality of the school system, maybe some information on popular courses of study at the universities, etc.

You could probably cover law enforcement and crime as a brief paragraph in the government section as well.

If Hollywood is a major part of the industry of sonoma county, I would think that the 'film locations' section could be merged with 'economy'. It's not necessary to list every film that was ever filmed (in whole or in part) in the county, as that is better done with a linked list. Instead, discuss some of the more significant films, such as major films that contributed to the growth of the entertainment sector of the economy, in prose.

The external links section also appears to be a bit long. Consider pruning down to the essential links only, and eliminating any linkspam. It might help to review WP:EL for guidelines on this.

I found several manual of style issues throughout the article, so I think it would help to review WP:MOS for tips on formatting.

Hope this helps improve the article. Cheers! Dr. Cash 06:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Introduction Statement on Agricultural Production appears unsupported
The introduction states that "In 2002 Sonoma County ranked as the second county in the United States in agricultural production.[1] As early as 1920 Sonoma County was ranked as the eighth most productive U.S county,[2] " However, the PDF linked to does not support that statement. The 2002 total value of agricultural products sold data from the 2002 Census of Agriculture County Profile of the United States Department of Agriculture, California Agricultural Statistics Service, indicates that Sonoma County is 16th in California and 32nd in the United States. The data is available at:

http://www.nass.usda.gov/census/census02/profiles/ca/cp06097.PDF

50n0m4 15:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Northernmost in SF Bay Area
I have undone the edit made from 75.72.92.166 claiming Sonoma County as the northernmost in the Bay Area. Sonoma County's northernmost point is at about 38°51'10.54"N, and the southernmost at about 38°4'23.71". Napa County's northernmost point is at about 38°51'51.28", and the southernmost at 38° 9'20.05" making it further north on the whole. Given that the Bay Area article includes Napa, we can't make a claim for Sonoma.Ibadibam (talk) 17:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Movies
I noticed that the movie section sent my eyes to the list area first, rather than the paragraph above it. In other words, I found myself asking "Where is the listing of The Birds?". I had to mentally search the area before realizing that they were listed in the above paragraph. It's just the way that section attracts the eyes, does anyone mind if I try to fix it up a little bit? This Article used to be a lot prettier, and I think that with a little work, we can get it up to good article status or better. --Sue Rangell [ citation needed ] 05:52, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified
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Intent to Archive
I intend to archive this talk page, or most of it, per the following protocols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page Isonomia09 (talk) 06:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Government Corruption
There are multiple incidents of pretty horrific government corruption. Some examples include the Mayor of Windsor being accused by 12 different women of a pattern of rape and sexual assault. These women are very credible and include multiple politicians, including a deputy district attorney for the county and fellow Windsor council-member, who accused Mr. Foppoli of putting a date rape drug in her drink, raping her in a wine tasting room, filming it, and then trying to blackmail her. Because of the 'conflict of interest', the local DA's office forwarded the case to the Attorney General's office under Rob Bonta, but it has been sitting on their desk for over 2 years. Another example is that there was a literal/veritable torture ring in the Sonoma County jail where there is video evidence uploaded to YouTube by the victims' attorney, Izaak Schwaiger, of the 4-6 deputies often wearing ski masks, riot gear, no name tags, and carrying a shotgun with them, and subjecting the inmates to "pain compliance" techniques. I struggle to word this in an encyclopedic manner, but it is obvious from the videos that the deputies did this with the sole purpose of causing pain and suffering. My understanding is that Court documents meet Wikipedia standards on sources of what people said. According to Court documents, the inmates alleged that their heads were slammed against the ground and against door frames, and one inmate sustained internal bleeding. The following is very graphic and may not be suitable for Wikipedia due to that, but that inmate allegedly lost control of his bowels, defecated, and then was forced into underwear several sizes too small for him, and then was put in a suicide watch room without being allowed to wash, and was not allowed to see medical staff for several days. To be very, very clear, this is all easily verifiable with news articles. It was a 2015 case in Sonoma County that went to Federal District Court, and I have the Court documents. There was a policy called "Yard Counseling" or "Behavior Counseling" endorsing this behavior on the part of the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office that was in place until 2018, and the news articles about this can be found by searching for the keywords: "Sonoma County Yard Counseling 2015". I am choosing not to name the victims out of respect for their rights. There were several other incidents as well indicating a large degree of government corruption. Various other examples, along with supportive sources, can be provided. Isonomia09 (talk) 08:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I intend to consolidate sources, provide them on this talk page, wait a reasonable period of time for review, maybe start a draft outside the article for the sake of allowing other editors to review the proposed content, and then start editing the article. Other editors are welcome to review my work and provide suggestions for making it encyclopedic, objective, and neutral. Please do not delete this section on this talk page without notice, as doing that is a violation of Wikipedia's rules. I am open to hearing people out regarding suggestions. Thank you. Isonomia09 (talk) 08:18, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Please be aware of Wikipedia's policy regarding attack pages. These articles will be speedily deleted, and users who create or add such material will be blocked from editing. Thanks for your understanding. Magnolia677 (talk) 12:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I appreciate all input and notice of things to be wary about, and am open to discussion, guidance and review, thank you. I will note that you are the one who deleted my section on the talk page before and threatened me with a block (on the talk page for my user space).  After reviewing the "attack page" reference, I  think that my proposal would objectively not qualify as turning the article into an attack page.  While the edits I intend to make are "negative" in nature, I would also argue that the articles I intend to edit are entirely positive, rather than neutral, and the additions I intend to make (with careful regard for reliable secondary sources) make the articles more neutral.  I do appreciate your oversight and providing the references to be wary of, and can respect your alternative viewpoint.  Isonomia09 (talk) 18:27, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

 * It sounds like the project you propose would run afoul of Wikipedia's policies on original research and synthesis. Wikipedia relies heavily on reliable secondary sources that have already done the analysis you seem to propose. This helps Wikipedia to determine that something is verifiable and notable. It is beyond Wikipedia's scope to take on those tasks itself. If there's a possibility of getting the information you mention here into the encyclopedia, it would be by finding a reliable source that has already published it.  signed, Willondon (talk)  14:45, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The two examples I gave above have already been extensively published in sources that meet Wikipedia's standards for reliable sources (credible news companies). See the Wikipedia article on Dominic Foppoli, for example.  I appreciate the references.  I have not read the "synthesis" article yet, and will re-review the reliable source page, and secondary sources page.  Isonomia09 (talk) 18:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Sources on 2015 Torture Ring:

https://abc7news.com/sonoma-county-jail-correctional-deputies-beat-inmates-filed-a-lawsuit-attorney-izaak-schwaiger/1018775/

https://sonomasun.com/2022/01/12/explosive-charges-of-systemic-racism-brutality-in-the-sonoma-county-sheriffs-office/

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/sonoma-county-sheriff-offices-sued-for-alleged-torture-beatings-of-jail-inmates/65366/

https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Suit-charges-inmates-were-beaten-tortured-at-6553508.php

The Sheriff's Office lied that it didn't happen. (See ABC7News Source.) They lied about the existence of the videos. The attorney for the victims then got the videos (sources below), and then the Sheriff's Office settled for 1.75 million dollars. Acts of torture were specifically condoned by a policy called "yard counseling" or "behavior counseling (see source below). Sonoma County did not address the fact that their own official written policies endorsed torture until three years later.  In the meantime, other incidents occurred where people in custody were allegedly tortured, and the Sheriff's Office criminally destroyed evidence and lied (this can be supported with public court documents).  All the deputies who participated in the incident are still employed today.  Anyone can check the names on the Federal Lawsuit against the database on TransparentCalifornia.com.  They are all making around $250,000 a year.

Additional sources:

https://www.youtube.com/@izaakschwaiger1884/videos

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sonoma+county+yard+counseling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smKq5Dpf3YI

The above video where former Sheriff Rob Giordano discusses the 2015 torture ring contains lies stated by Mr. Giordano. He states that "nobody was injured". The victims sustained brain damage and internal bleeding.

The only statement I've made here that I no longer currently have a source to support is that the Sheriff's Office lied about the existence of the videos. It's probably in the Court documents somewhere, but I saw a video press release made by the attorney for the victims, and can't find it any more.

More sources:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/jail-guards-beat-humiliated-sonoma-county-jail-federal-lawsuit/104173/

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/lawsuit-claims-sonoma-county-jail-inmates-suffered-5-hour-beating-at-hands/

Isonomia01 (talk) 04:16, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

2020 incident shooting protestors in the face and heads with rubber bullets and plastic/rubber grenades:

In May 2020, the one of the victims of the 2015 torture ring (Marqus Martinez) was shot in the face with a "stingball" (explosive plastic and rubber) grenade, which was shot at high velocity from a grenade launcher from an officer who was hiding on a rooftop from close range. Several other protestors were also shot with rubber bullets in the head. The grenade exploded on contact and caused horrific injury to Martinez, shattered his teeth and blew fragments of his teeth through his tongue and into the flesh of his mouth. The incident was live-videoed by Martinez, who was unaware that he was being targeted by law enforcement. The video was uploaded to YouTube by his attorney Izaac Schwaigger.

https://www.radical-guide.com/local-indigenous-tribal-leader-hospitalized-due-to-santa-rosa-police-department-violence/

https://kpfa.org/episode/flashpoints-june-8-2020/

2019 killing of David Ward:

Charles Blount, a deputy for Sonoma County Sheriff's Office, applied a carotid artery choke hold on David Ward, while Ward was being tasered, and then, while applying the carotid artery choke hold, and while Ward was still being tasered, slammed Ward's head into the top of the door panel on Ward's car. Ward died. Ward had reported his car stolen days back but had not reported that he had regained possession of the car. Deputies allege that he did not immediately pull over. On the video, Ward informs the deputies that he is the "injured party". Blount had a history of misconduct including (amongst other complaints) using a choke hold on Celeste Moon in a jaywalking case, and then committing perjury about it in Court. That incident was also filmed unbeknownst to Blount. This was after other complaints to the County Supervisors, IOLERO, and the Sheriff's Office that the Sheriff's Office was using the hold recklessly and that the choke hold was well-known to be lethal, on people who were being compliant. It was admitted in Court by Sheriff's Office employee and policy-writer James Naugle, in another case, that the Sheriff's Office did not train deputies to limit the amount of time to apply the hold for.

The Wroth brothers:

In 2013, Esa Wroth was tasered approximately 30 times, as well as punched. The incident occurred in the booking area. Esa Wroth stated that he was tortured and almost died in videoed news reports. He asked for 3 million dollars won a settlement for 1.25 million. In 2017, his brother, Branch Wroth was tasered over and over to death by law enforcement.

Sources will be consolidated to support the above sections soon, as well as the Dominic Foppoli serial rape case.

Isonomia01 (talk) 18:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Does anyone know what the numbers in the "Cities by population and crime rates" represent?
There is a table under the "crime" section of the article called "Cities by population and crime rates". The numbers/boxes are not labeled, and it is impossible to know what those numbers are intended to represent. If nobody clarifies or adds labels to the boxes within a reasonable amount of time, I am going to delete this table. The table needs a row added at the top with labels explaining what the numbers in the columns below the labels represent. Isonomia01 (talk) 14:46, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sonoma County, California