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Mississippi College

Mississippi College (MC) is a private Baptist university in Clinton, Mississippi. Founded in 1826, MC is the second-oldest Baptist-affiliated college or university in the United States and the oldest college or university in Mississippi.

Founding

On January 24, 1826, the college received its first charter, signed by Mississippi Gov. David Holmes. In 1827, the name was changed from Hampstead Academy to Mississippi Academy at the request of the board of trustees. On December 18, 1830, having become a college, the name was changed to Mississippi College. It offered degrees in arts, sciences, and languages.

In 1831, Mississippi College became the first coeducational college in the United States to award a degree to a female student. That year it granted degrees to two women, Alice Robinson and Catherine Hall.

In the beginning, Mississippi College was not church-related. For a number of years, it was affiliated with the Methodist and Presbyterian churches. Since 1850, Mississippi College has been affiliated with the Mississippi Baptist Convention, and the board of trustees oversees the institution.

Civil War and reconstruction
Classes were not held during the Civil War, and the buildings deteriorated. Many students joined with faculty, a school trustee and townspeople to form the Mississippi College Rifles during the war years or signed up with other units.

In the half-century after the war, the college enrollment and campus slowly recovered. The college president Walter Hillman helped refurbish the buildings by securing Northern financing prior to being offered the college presidency. The endowment fund was renewed and the physical structures were renovated.

From 1911 through 1932, the construction of Provine Science Building, Lowrey Hall, Alumni Hall and Farr-Hall Hospital was completed. The college endowment grew to $500,000 and in 1922, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools approved accreditation for the college. Enrollment reached 400 students.

World War II and later 20th century
In 1942, Mississippi College acquired Hillman College. A new Nelson Hall administration building was erected in 1948, and new residence halls were built.

In 1943, MC was among 131 colleges and universities nationwide taking part in the V-12 Navy College Training Program, which offered students a path to a Navy commission. During the V-12 period, the Navy had exclusive use of Chrestman, Alumni Hall, and the cafeteria. During World War II, enrollment was between 550 and 600 students. After the war ended and veterans returned, enrollment increased. About 1,000 students were enrolled in 1950, and 1,581 students by fall 1956.

Mississippi College was one of the last private colleges in the country to drop its segregation policy, and did not do so until the 1969–70 school year.

From 1957 through 1968, the college built the B.C. Rogers Student Center, Hederman Science Building, Self Hall, and a pair of residence halls. Provine Chapel was restored. The School of Nursing began in 1969. MC purchased the former Jackson School of Law in 1975, leading to the Mississippi College School of Law. In 1975, the division of business became the School of Business. In 1977, the division of education became the School of Education. In 1982, the 12 remaining departments were grouped into the College of Arts and Sciences.

In May 1992, MC absorbed Clarke College after the smaller school was forced to close due to declining enrollments. Throughout the 1990s, the college renovated and expanded; work was carried out on the library, electronic media center, Cockroft Hall (for the School of Nursing), A.E. Wood Coliseum, the Law School building in downtown Jackson, the New Men's Residence Hall, the New Women's Residence Hall, Jennings Hall, and Latimer House (a Victorian house later used for alumni receptions).

21st century
From 2002 to 2015, the college's enrollment grew from 3,227 to 5,152. The number includes a record of 618 freshmen.

The number of international students rose from nine to a record 505 students from more than two dozen nations in fall 2015.

The college added a physician assistant program in 2011. MC was the first institution in Mississippi to offer such a degree. MC now offers doctorates in educational leadership and professional counseling.

Mississippi College was granted an exception to Title IX in 2015, which allows it to legally discriminate against LGBT students for religious reasons.

Presidents
Since its beginning, Mississippi College has had 23 presidents/principals, including three interim presidents. The first three presidents were known as "principals", before changing the official title to "president".

 * F. G. Hopkins (1826 to 1828)
 * Daniel Comfort (1828 to 1834)
 * N. Shepherd (1835 to 1836)
 * E. N. Elliott (1836 to 1837)
 * Daniel Comfort (1837 to 1841)
 * Alexander Campbell (Jan. to April 1842)
 * Alexander Campbell (1842 to 1844)
 * Interim Robert McLain (1844 to 1845)
 * Daniel Comfort (1845 to 1846)
 * Simeon Colton (1846 to 1848)
 * Consider Parish (1848 to 1850)
 * Isaac Newton Urner (1850 to 1867)
 * Walter Hillman (1867 to 1873)
 * Warren Sheldon Webb (1873 to 1890)
 * James M. Moore (1890 to 1891)
 * Robert Abram Venable (1891 to 1895)
 * John William Provine (1895 to 1897)
 * John William Provine (1897 to 1898)
 * William Tyndale Lowrey (1898 to 1911)
 * John William Provine (1911 to 1932)
 * Dotson McGinnis Nelson (1932 to 1957)
 * Richard Aubrey McLemore (1957 to 1968)
 * Lewis Nobles (1968 to 1993)
 * Interim Rory Lee (1993 to 1994)
 * Howell W. Todd (1994 to 2001)
 * Interim Lloyd Roberts (2001 to 2002)
 * Lee G. Royce (2002 to 2018)
 * Blake Thompson (2018 to present)

Campus
Mississippi College's main campus in Clinton is more than 80 acres. The Mississippi College School of Law is located in downtown Jackson.

Notable buildings at Mississippi College include its historic Provine Chapel, the oldest building on the Clinton campus, which opened in 1860. During the Civil War, U.S. General Ulysses S. Grant used it as a hospital for his wounded troops and reports say it was also used as a stable for his horses.

Opened in 1926, Alumni Hall houses a gymnasium and a pool. Built in 1948, Nelson Hall serves as the university's administration building and contains Swor Auditorium, the venue for musical performances. Aven Hall houses the recitals at the Jean Pittman Williams Recital Hall and some theatre performances in the Aven Little Theater. The Samuel Marshall Gore Galleries hosts fine art exhibitions.

The A.E. Wood Coliseum is used for MC Choctaws basketball games and is the site for university graduations. Self Hall houses the MC School of Business and Lowrey Hall, the former MC library, and the School of Education. The Leland Speed Library houses its Learning Resources Center which includes studios for the Department of Communication. The 20,000-square-foot Royce Medical Science Center, named in honor of President Emeritus Lee G. Royce, opened in January 2013. The 106,000-square-foot Baptist Healthplex contains a gym and medical offices. The Healthplex is also the home of MC's Physician Assistant Program. Cockroft Hall houses the nursing and kinesiology departments. The 8,500-seat Robinson-Hale Stadium is the home field for MC Choctaws football games and track meets on the Clinton campus.

University Place residence halls opened in August 2015 to accommodate 189 students. Cost of the eight modern brick units was $16 million. The facilities were the first new residence hall construction in nearly 20 years on the Clinton campus.

The Rhoda Royce Prayer Garden is named in the honor of the wife of retired President Lee Royce. It contains fountains and rocks with scriptures from the Bible. The MC Dyslexia Center was expanded in January 2019 to include additional rooms to evaluate children with the learning disability, and other offices.

Academics
The School of Business is AACSB-accredited and located in Self Hall. The school offers 6 undergraduate business majors and the MBA. With an enrollment of 850 students, business is the single largest undergraduate major on campus.

The School of Education includes the Department of Kinesiology, the Department of Psychology and Counseling, the Department of Teacher Education and Leadership, and the Dyslexia Center. The School of Christian Studies and the Arts includes the Department of Art, the Department of Christian Studies and Philosophy, the Department of Communication, and the Department of Music.

The School of Humanities and Social Sciences spans the Department of English, the Department of Modern Languages, the Department of History and Political Science, and the Department of Sociology and Social Work; The School of Science and Mathematics includes the Department of Biological Science, the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, the Department of Computer Science and Physics, the Department of Mathematics, and the Department of Physician Assistant Studies. The School of Nursing is based at Cockcroft Hall on the Clinton campus. The MC School of Law serves more than 400 students on East Griffith Street in downtown Jackson. Overall, Mississippi College consists of more than 80 academic programs.

The Physician Assistant Program enrolls 94 students. The doctorate in professional counseling, the first of its type in the United States, enrolls 120 students.

The MC student/faculty ratio is 14:1. The average ACT score for incoming freshmen is 24.

The institution is ranked among the "Absolute Worst Campuses for LGBTQ Youth" in the US by Campus Pride.

Notable programs
Launched in May 2011, the Department of Physician Assistant Studies serves 90 graduate students. The problem works with the University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson, federal clinics and other medical facilities. The university's master's in medical sciences program serves more than 200 graduate students.

Since June 1984, the Mississippi College Administration of Justice Program has had over 250 Bachelor of Science graduates and 70 graduates in the Master of Social Science Program.

Athletics
Mississippi College competes in NCAA Division II as a member of the Gulf South Conference as of 2014. The college sponsors teams in football, basketball (men's and women's), baseball, softball, tennis (men's and women's), golf (men's and women's), soccer (men's and women's), volleyball, track and field (men's indoor and outdoor, and women's indoor and outdoor), cross country running (men's and women's), equestrian (women's), and table tennis (men's and women's).

The MC men's baseball team won the 2018 Gulf South Conference championship.

In 2015, the women's soccer team advanced to the championship game of the National Christian College Athletic Association, losing in penalty kicks after playing to a draw with Houghton College. In Fall 2018, the women's soccer team finished the season ranked 14th in the nation. The team competed in the Sweet 16 of the NCAA Division II post-season tournament.

From 2012 through 2014, MC's table tennis team ended the season ranked second of the 250 participating universities. In 2015, the table tennis team won the national championship at the National Collegiate Table Tennis Association games in Wisconsin. The MC table tennis team finished the 2017–18 season ranked third in the nation at the championship games in Round Rock, Texas in April 2018.

MC became the first college in the state to field an archery team in Fall 2014. The university's bass fishing and sporting clays squads takes part in regional and national competitions. An archery team member won a gold medal as the best collegiate male bow hunter at the Spring 2017 U.S. Collegiate Archery Championship in South Dakota. The men's compound team and the bowhunter women's squad won first place at the National 3D Championships in Foley, Alabama in 2018.

The MC women's softball team was the 2017 Gulf South Conference champion.

The university's equestrian team began in 2008.

Notable alumni

 * Jake Allen, former Green Bay Packers, Cleveland Browns, Calgary Stampeders, Georgia Force football star
 * Lance Barksdale, Major League Baseball umpire
 * Ross Barnett, 53rd Governor of Mississippi
 * Phil Bryant, Governor of Mississippi
 * Alston Callahan, ophthalmologist
 * Michael Catt, Christian movie producer and pastor
 * Ted DiBiase, Jr., retired professional wrestler, most known with the WWE
 * James R. Dow, distinguished folklore scholar, Professor Emeritus at Iowa State University
 * Bernard Ebbers, co-founder and former CEO of WorldCom
 * Larry Evans, former Denver Broncos and Green Bay Packers football star
 * Major Everett, former Philadelphia Eagles, Cleveland Browns, Atlanta Falcons football star
 * W.C. Friley, president of Hardin–Simmons University from 1892 to 1894 and Louisiana College from 1909 to 1910
 * J. Andrew Gipson, Mississippi Commissioner of Agriculture; Former Mississippi House of Representatives member and attorney
 * Edgar Godbold, president of Howard Payne University from 1923 to 1929 and Louisiana College from 1942 to 1951
 * Mary Lou Godbold, Mississippi state senator
 * Alice Haining, actress
 * Barry Hannah, author
 * Gregg Harper, U.S. Congressman from Mississippi
 * Fred McAfee, former New Orleans Saints football star, later the team's director of player personnel
 * Leon C. Megginson, business professor noted for his clarifying statements about Darwinism
 * Larry Myricks, U.S. Olympic track and field medalist
 * Horace Newcomb, Lambdin Kay Chair at the Grady College of Journalism and Mass Communication
 * George Coleman Osborn (1904–1982), American historian and author; class of 1927
 * Joseph Turner Patterson (D) - Former Attorney General of Mississippi
 * Dayn Perry, Baseball writer, author and poet
 * Anita Raj, developmental psychologist, academic, and global public health researcher
 * Anita Renfroe, Christian humorist
 * Harold Ritchie, member of the Louisiana House of Representatives, 2004–2016, term-limited
 * Carroll Waller, First Lady of Mississippi (1972–1976) and historic preservationist
 * Michael Williams, former NFL player
 * Lee Yancey, Mississippi senator

title: Mississippi College


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University of Mississippi Medical Center

University of Mississippi Medical Center (UMMC) is the health sciences campus of the University of Mississippi (Ole Miss) and is located in Jackson, Mississippi, United States. UMMC, also referred to as the Medical Center, is the state's only academic medical center.

UMMC houses seven health science schools: Medicine, Dentistry, Nursing, Health Related Professions, Graduate Studies in the Health Sciences, Population Health and Pharmacy. (The main School of Pharmacy is headquartered on the University of Mississippi (UM) campus in Oxford, Mississippi.) The 164-acre campus also includes University Hospital, Wiser Hospital for Women and Infants, Conerly Critical Care Hospital, Children's of Mississippi (including the Blair E. Batson Tower and the Kathy and Joe Sanderson Tower), the state's only children's hospital, and Rowland Medical Library.

History
The University of Mississippi Medical Center opened in 1955, but its beginnings date to 1903 when a two-year medical school was established on the parent campus in Oxford. In that era, certificate graduates went out of state to complete their doctor of medicine degrees.

Finally, in 1950, the Mississippi Legislature enacted a law to create a four-year medical school associated with the University of Mississippi. On July 1, 1955, the state's new Medical Center, then commonly referred to as UMC, opened in Jackson, initially as a four-year medical school with medical and graduate students, interns and residents. As it had in Oxford, the School of Medicine offered both medical and graduate degree programs. The campus included a teaching hospital and a library.

The Oxford campus' nursing department moved to the Medical Center in 1956 and was granted school status in 1958. The School of Health Related Professions (SHRP) was added in 1971 and began offering baccalaureate curricula in 1973. The School of Dentistry was authorized in 1973, and its first students were admitted in 1975. The graduate program was elevated to school status in 2001 and designated the School of Graduate Studies in the Health Sciences.

The parcel of land on which UMMC's University Hospital sits was once the site of the Mississippi Insane Asylum, which moved its operations in 1935 to Whitfield, Miss., and became Mississippi State Hospital. The bodies of perhaps seven thousand patients have been found on campus in unmarked graves.

Civil rights era
At its opening in 1955, UMMC provided care to African-American patients, but the patient-care facilities were segregated by race, according to local laws in the South at the time. In 1963, civil rights leader Medgar Evers was rushed to UMMC after being shot at his home in Jackson, MS, but he died in the hospital emergency room. In 1964, UMMC became the primary medical provider for injured Freedom Riders.

Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibited federally funded institutions from discriminating. In 1965, the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund filed a federal civil rights complaint against UMMC. Robert Q. Marston, MD, then medical dean and Medical Center director, developed a compliance strategy which included hiring the first black faculty member, and integrating the hospitals and clinics.

At about the same time, Dr. Blair E. Batson, chair of the Department of Pediatrics at UMMC, offered a position in the department's residency education program to Dr. Aaron Shirley, an African-American physician who had attended medical school in Tennessee. Shirley became the first African-American learner at UMMC when he entered the residency program in 1965.

In 1966, Sammie Long became the first Black woman to attend the school. In 1972, James Oliver became the school's first Black M.D.-degree recipient.

Modern era
In June 2023, the UMMC shut down its LGBT health clinic in response to legislative pressure.

About
As the academic health sciences campus of the University of Mississippi, the Medical Center functions as a separately accredited, semi-autonomous unit responsible to the chancellor of the university and through him to the constitutional Board of Trustees of the State Institutions of Higher Learning (IHL). The University of Mississippi Medical Center is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC) to award baccalaureate, master's and doctorate degrees. The Medical Center is accredited by The Joint Commission.

The IHL Board of Trustees appoints the UM chancellor, who then recommends a candidate for UMMC's vice chancellor for health affairs. The vice chancellor also serves as the dean of the University of Mississippi School of Medicine. LouAnn Woodward, MD, was named March 1, 2015, to fill the vice chancellor position. She is responsible for the overall strategic direction of the Medical Center. She is the first woman and the 10th person to hold the post.

Enrollment in UMMC's 35 degree programs is more than 3,000 students. Admission preference is given to Mississippi residents in an effort to supply professionals to meet the state's health-care needs.

The Associated Student Body (ASB) is the student government association for UMMC. It serves as a mechanism to organize student extracurricular activities and to voice student concerns, ideas, and questions to the administration and community.

UMMC is the only hospital in the state designated as a Level 1 trauma center. Specialized hospital services include: an interventional MRI; the only Level 4 neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) in the state; separate medical, surgical, cardiac, neuroscience and pediatric ICUs; a heart station for diagnosis and treatment of heart disease; a heart failure clinic; heart, kidney, liver, pancreas, cornea and bone marrow transplant programs; a comprehensive stroke unit; state-of-the-art radiological imaging systems; a sleep disorders laboratory; an in vitro fertilization program; and special pharmaceutical services.

A portion of land on the UMMC campus was once the site of the Mississippi Insane Asylum, which moved its operations in 1935 and became Mississippi State Hospital.

Medical facilities
UMMC has the only hospital in the state designated as a Level 1 trauma center, and the state's only Level 4 neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) located in the Wiser Hospital for Women and Infants. The Medical Center also has the only organ transplant (adult and pediatric) program and OB/GYN emergency room in Mississippi.

With a total of 1,003 beds, including Holmes County and Grenada locations, UMMC is the largest diagnostic, treatment and referral care system in the state. Based on the latest fiscal year (2013–14) statistics, inpatient admissions at the multiple locations totaled more than 33,000, with more than 487,000 hospital outpatient visits. The UMMC emergency rooms in Jackson had 70,000 visits, while Grenada had 18,324 and Holmes County had 6,657.

Hospitals include:
 * University Hospital
 * Wallace Conerly Critical Care Hospital
 * Winfred L. Wiser Hospital for Women and Infants
 * Children's of Mississippi Hospital
 * UMMC Holmes County
 * UMMC Grenada

University Physicians (UP), the faculty group practice of the School of Medicine is the state's largest medical group representing more than 125 specialties. This network of providers includes more than 1,000 health care specialists and subspecialists. UP providers see about 404,870 patients each year in 170 locations in 38 counties.

UMMC faculty and advanced practice providers see patients at several on- and off-site clinics.

Specialized clinics include:
 * UP Pavilion – Jackson, Miss.
 * UP Grants Ferry – Flowood, Miss.
 * UP Lakeland Medicine Center – Jackson, Miss
 * UP Northeast Jackson at Select Specialty Hospital – Jackson, Miss.
 * Women's Specialty Care at Mirror Lake – Flowood, Miss.
 * The Face & Skin Center of University Physicians – Ridgeland, Miss.
 * UMMC Cancer Institute at Jackson Medical Mall – Jackson, Miss.
 * UP Clinics at Jackson Medical Mall – Jackson, Miss.

Other features and facilities include separate medical, surgical, cardiac, neuroscience and pediatric ICUs; University Heart for the diagnosis and treatment of heart disease; a heart failure clinic; a comprehensive stroke center; epilepsy center, state-of-the-art radiological imaging systems; a sleep disorders laboratory; an in vitro fertilization program; and special pharmaceutical services.

In 2007, professional football standout Eli Manning undertook a five-year campaign to improve UMMC's pediatric clinics. More than $2.9 million was raised, and the clinics were renamed Eli Manning Children's Clinics. In 2014, father Archie Manning and his family joined with UMMC to launch the Manning Family Fund for a Healthier Mississippi. The donor-supported program boosts the Medical Center's commitment to improving Mississippians' health. The partnership between the Mannings and UMMC raises money to attack heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, cancer, dementia and other health challenges confronting Mississippians.

UMMC outreach programs help fulfill the Medical Center's mission of improving the overall health of Mississippians. Efforts range from volunteer and pastoral services at UMMC to statewide emergency medical responses and state-sponsored outreach initiatives.

Centers and institutes
UMMC is the home for a variety of specialized health-care, research and education centers and institutes, including:
 * Cancer Center and Research Institute
 * Myrlie Evers-Williams Institute for the Elimination of Health Disparities
 * UMMC Neuro Institute
 * ACT Center for Tobacco Treatment, Education and Research
 * Cardiovascular-Renal Research Center
 * Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities
 * Center for Developmental Disorders Research
 * Center for Psychiatric Neuroscience
 * Center for Sialendoscopy and Salivary Gland Disorders
 * Center for Telehealth
 * Center of Biostatistics and Bioinformatics
 * Children's Cancer Center
 * Children's Safe Center
 * Comprehensive Epilepsy Center
 * Comprehensive Stroke Center
 * Memory Impairment and Neurodegenerative Dementia Center
 * Mississippi Center for Obesity Research
 * Women's Health Research Center
 * Clinical Skills Assessment Center
 * Simulation and Interprofessional Education Center

Center for Telehealth
In 2003, UMMC helped start a pilot program to connect emergency physicians in Jackson with three rural hospitals using telecommunications. The program has now grown into the Center for Telehealth, which ranks among the top programs in the nation.

Telehealth, also known as telemedicine, uses remote technologies to provide services ranging from diabetes counseling to remote monitoring of intensive care patients. UMMC's telehealth program functions as a virtual clinic performing direct medical diagnostics and treatment from physicians, specialists and nurses. It averages 8,000 consultations a month.

In 2015, UMMC and data company Venyu Solutions (acquired by EATEL in 2013) partnered to expand the Medical Center's telehealth services.

The 40,000 square foot UMMC Center for Telehealth Venyu Technology Campus is being constructed by Duvall Decker Architects, in Jackson, Mississippi, and is recognized by an AIA Mississippi Award Citation.

Affiliated entities
Separate entities are affiliated with UMMC because of services they provide in support of the Medical Center. They include:
 * Children's Miracle Network
 * UMMC Alliance
 * University Transplant Guild

Aircare Flight Service
The University of Mississippi Medical Center's Helicopter Flight program began operations in 1996 with a single helicopter based in Jackson. The Jackson-based AirCare 1 helicopter was joined by the Meridian-based AirCare 2 helicopter in spring 2009, the Golden Triangle-based AirCare 3 in spring 2016, and Greenwood-based Aircare 4 in 2017. The additional helicopters allowed AirCare to expand its mission profile by transporting patients to not only UMMC, but other hospitals able to provide levels of care required by the patient's illness or injury. Scene response profile has also changed, allowing the transportation of multiple patients from a single location. Since the program's inception, AirCare teams have safely transported over 18,000 adults, pediatric and neonatal patients over 2 million miles without any FAA-reportable accidents as of 2016.

Economic impact
With more than 10,000 full- and part-time employees, UMMC is one of the largest employers in Mississippi. Its annual budget – approximately one-tenth from state appropriations – represents 10 percent of the Jackson metro area economy and 2 percent of the state economy.

On any given weekday, about 20,000 employees, students, patients, family members, vendors and other guests are present on the UMMC campus.

Alumni

 * Jim C. Barnett, physician and surgeon from Brookhaven; member of the Mississippi House of Representatives from 1992 to 2008
 * Blair E. Batson, first chairman of pediatrics at UMMC; namesake of the Blair E. Batson Hospital for Children
 * Wallace Conerly, physician; UMMC vice chancellor from 1994 to 2003; namesake of the Wallace Conerly Critical Care Hospital
 * John C. Fleming, family physician; former coroner; US Congressman from Louisiana 2009–2017; Assistant Secretary of the US Department of Commerce, White House Deputy Chief of staff.
 * Hannah Gay, UMMC associate professor pediatrics; named to 2013 TIME 100, the magazine's annual list of the 100 most influential people in the world. Recognized for an atypical treatment regime that functionally cured a baby born with HIV in 2010.
 * Arthur Guyton, physiologist; former UMMC dean; author of Textbook of Medical Physiology, the world's best-selling physiology book.
 * James D. Hardy, surgeon; performed the first human lung transplant in 1963 and first animal-to-human heart transplant in 1964. The heart of a chimpanzee was used for the heart transplant because of Dr. Hardy's research on transplantation, consisting of primate studies during the previous nine years.
 * Daniel Jones, physician, former Ole Miss chancellor and 2007-08 national president of the American Heart Association
 * Robert Q. Marston, former UMMC dean; research scientist and medical professor
 * Aaron Shirley from Gluckstadt, Miss.; physician, UMMC associate professor and civil right activist.
 * Winfred L. Wiser, physician; chairman of the UMMC Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology from 1976 to 1996; namesake of the Winfred Wiser Hospital for Women and Infants; namesake of the Winfred L. Wiser Society and the Winfred L. Wiser Chair of Gynecologic Surgery

Leadership

 * Dr. David S. Pankratz, 1955–61; dean, School of Medicine and Medical Center director
 * Dr. Robert Q. Marston, 1961–66; dean, School of Medicine, Medical Center director and vice chancellor for health affairs
 * Dr. John Gronvall, 1966–1967; acting dean, School of Medicine and acting Medical Center director
 * Dr. Robert Carter, 1967–70; dean, School of Medicine and Medical Center director
 * Dr. Robert E. Blount, 1970–73; dean, School of Medicine and Medical Center director
 * Dr. Norman C. Nelson, 1973–94; dean, School of Medicine and vice chancellor for health affairs
 * Dr. Wallace Conerly, 1994–2003; dean, School of Medicine and vice chancellor for health affairs
 * Dr. Daniel W. Jones, 2003–10; dean, School of Medicine and vice chancellor for health affairs
 * Dr. James E. Keeton, 2010–15; dean, School of Medicine and vice chancellor for health affairs
 * Dr. LouAnn Woodward, 2015–present; dean, School of Medicine and vice chancellor for health affairs

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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Talk:Matzah

Photo from Ofra
Considering that "The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank illegal under international law. According to human rights organization B'Tselem, the state of Israel itself acknowledges that much of the Ofra civilian settlement is built on privately owned Palestinian land, which is unlawful according to Israeli law." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ofra) I see it as an unnessecary political statement to subtitle the Photo with children in Ofra baking Matzo. How about just removing the "in Ofra" or chosing a different photo from an undisputed location, if the location is important to anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.64.144.77 (talk) 20:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Ingredients, Five Species of Chametz and Preparation.. and Zionism
I'm interested in the ingredients and preperation of Matzo, not in zionism. Zionistic phrases contained in the article: "...millennia of of exile...", "However as the people of Israel return to their ancient homeland...". These have no place in the article, and are clearly an attempt push an agenda that has nothing to do with Matzo whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.110.246.219 (talk) 06:57, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Religious stuff
So I go and buy a packet of matzos at the supermarket because dad likes them. Personally i think they are the most bland thing you can eat next to cardboard (at least put some salt in them FFS!). I look it up on wikipedia to see why on earth anyone would want to make these things and, importantly, what these things are as a food. THESE ARE FOOD. Yes there's a whole Jewish/Christian thing behind them, but shouldn't most of that stuff go in religious topics, not cuisine? All i need to know is the very basics of where they come from, varieties, how they are made, nutrition info and uses in cuisine. Again, this is an article about FOOD not religion! Please keep all your religious stuff (NOTE: religion is differnet to national culture!) in another article. Thankyou.

Try this: I added yeast to my nana's matzo recipe. Delish! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.159.54 (talk) 17:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

NO SIR THIS IS A RITUALISTIC BREAD THAT IS TAKEN WITH RESPECT AND ONLY EATEN IN THE TIME OF THE PASSOVER. SAINT THOMAS CHRISTIANS OF KERALA IN INDIA ARE VERY STRICT ABOUT THE MAKING AND CONSUMPTION...IT SHOULD BE MADE IN THE HOUSE ITSELF....IT MUST BE TREATED RESPECTFULLY AND SHOULD BE CUT BY THE HEAD OF THE FAMILY....NOT TO ODFFEND ANYONE BUT THIS IS OUR SYRIAN CHRISTIAN CULTURE AS ACCORDING TO LEGEND WE WERE DIRECTLY CONVERTED BY THOMAS THE APOSTLE... — Preceding unsigned comment added by ARAVIND NAMBOOTHIRI (talk • contribs) 19:33, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Correct spelling?
Regardless the Sefaradi/Ashkenazi spelling, the Hagada(which is the official religious scroll for the passover, BY ALL JEW), refer to it as Matza(h). The Title should be changed.

Note: Haggada Note: Passover Seder Note: In Passover the edit used both spelling options.

Mazza is the spelling found on many boxes of various brands of machine-mazza to this day. Considering how the English word "pizza" is pronounced, it seems to me that this is still a valid spelling, and certainly one of the oldest and most venerable. It should AT LEAST be mentioned.

What the *** is Matzo? I've been an Ashkenazi Jew from a traditional family for half a century, in the diaspora and Israel, and have never heard the word, in liturgical-Ashkenazi or Sephardi-modern-Israeli Hebrew, nor seen it written like that in English (maybe Matza manufacturers in America spell it like that?). The word is Matza (or Matzah, if one wants to demonstrate that the third letter is heh, not alef, as in "found") and the plural is Matzot. As for the Google searches, they must have been searching something else. Maybe they were looking for the mountain near Larissa in Greece?). It's truly a ridiculous argument to dig one's heels in about. So, could somebody change the article's name to the correct one? The point which may have been missed is that even if a liturgical Ashkenazi were to pronounce the kamatz under the tzadi as "oh", it's still a kamatz! It's as if a Liverpudlian had spelt Sun Soohn (it was a soohny day) because that's how the word is pronounced in Merseyside. Whoever decided on Matzo must be an Diaspora Ashkenazi Jew with no knowledge of the Hebrew language (liturgical or modern) because the word מצו simply doesn't exist. But as stated, even in totally Ashkenazi English-speaking communities I have never heard the word pronounced that way, including my British Ashkenazi family, after scores of Seder nights together. And having said that, the largest number of Jews in the world live in Israel, where Sephardi Hebrew is spoken by everyone. So could this please be changed? As an editor very low on the Wiki food chain, I don't dare to do this myself (although I seem to have a phantom memory of doing so myself approximately 10-12 years ago, but I might be imagining this) Monosig (talk) 15:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Bartlby's list "Matzo" as the official spelling and "Matzoh" as the alternate spelling.
 * "Matzo" also generates almost twice as many google hits. - Hephaestos 19:03, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I don't care how many google hits it generates. I'm an actual Jew, and I was outright confused and disturbed when I saw the word spelled incorrectly. It's Matzah. DanHakimi (talk) 23:15, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Help, I tried to rename "Matzo" to "Matza" so I could rename "Matzoh" to "Matzo", but that didn't delete "Matzo". So we now have "Matza" and "Matzo" pointing to "Matzoh".  What I want is "Matzoh" moved to "Matzo" and "Matza" and "Matzoh" pointing to "Matzo".  Does an adminstrator need to do this?Samw 02:40, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Heh. That took a steady eye, but I think it's fixed now.  :) - Hephaestos 02:48, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I won't try this again!  :-) Samw 02:51, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Hey I wouldn't sweat it. If it would help to have the ability to delete redirect pages, you might cinsider asking for admin status.  I'd support it, I've seen you do good work here. - Hephaestos 02:53, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

By the way, not sure what happened here, but this should almost certainly be "Matza" or "Matzah", because that is the neutral Hebrew term -- "Matzoh" reflects an Ashkenazi dialect which is not neutral. Sort of like a POV article name -- what must be done to get it changed? I don't know how to do this. 132.216.227.226 01:16, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, Matza(h) would definitely be the appropriate form, as this corresponds to Israeli Hebrew, Sephardi Hebrew and even American pronunciation of Yiddish matse. The form Matzo(h), albeit used by some major US corporations, is an exclusively Ashkenazi form. -- Olve 17:50, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Why is the Ashkenazi pronunciation "not neutral", but a Sephardi or Israeli one "neutral"? The vast majority of native English Jewish speakers, are, in fact, Ashkenazi.  I note as well that the Britannica article is at "Matzo", as is that of the "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition.  2000" and "The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition.  2002" (Encarta calls it "Matzoh"). Anyway, "Matzo" gets 808,000 Google hits, versus 711,000 for "Matzah", 420,000 for "Matza" and 376,000 for "Matzoh".  "Matzo" does seem to be the single most commonly used English spelling, and naming this article would comply with the WP:NAME policy. Jayjg (talk) 18:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

 * And how many Ashkenazim say Matzoh? Most Ashkenazim I know in the US say Matzah (with the main stress on the first syllable), and this form is the one they have from the spoken Yiddish of recent generations. Thus, the form Matzah is absolutely defensible from an Ashkenazi perspective. Let me be a bit clearer:
 * Matzah is, in its various pronunciations, Ashkenazi (Yiddish), Sephardi (Sephardi Hebrew) and Israeli.
 * Matzoh is only Ashkenazi Hebrew, and is pronounced with an -o/-aw sound only by VERY few.
 * Thus, the form Matzah is perfectly Ashkenazi as well as Sephardi and Israeli. Both Matza(h) and Matzo(h) are clearly used in English. The form Matzah would be a reasonable compromise representing both the Ashkenazi MATza, the Sephardi Ma(t(sSA and the Israeli Hebrew MaTZA. -- Olve 21:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

 * BTW: I noted that you (JayJG) threw the numbers at me as "proof" for the Ashkenaziss form being the most appropriate. Let us look a bit closer at the numbers. Adding up the Google hits on Matza(h), we get a total of 1,131,000 hits for Matza(h) and 1,184,000 hits for Matzo(h) — a pretty minor difference (1.047/1.000 in "favour" of Matzo(h)) which suggests that these forms are numerically similar and that other factors, such as finding the culturally most inclusive form, are more relevant. Note that in a case like kosher vs. kasher, the Ashkenazi/Yiddish form kosher is clearly the established form. I am not asking for any sort of Sephardi hegemony here — just for a little bit of Ashkenazi sensitivity. -- Olve 22:04, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, I didn't mean to get into a tussle here. I was just pointing out that "Matzo" is the most popular English spelling (regardless of how Israelis pronounce it in Hebrew, or even how Ashkenazis pronounce it in English), and that spelling is used by a number of encyclopedias/dictionaries.  I have personally heard many Ashkenazim saying "matzoh", but I haven't done any formal surveys.  Regarding "hegemonies", I note that almost all articles on Jewish topics use the modern Israeli/"sorta Sephardi" pronunciation.  Whether it's Shabbat (not Shabbos or Shabbes), or Sukkot (not Sukkos or Sikkes), or Simchat Torah (not Simches Toireh) or Brit Milah (not Bris Milah), or Tzeniut (not Tznius), or Daf Yomi (not Daf Yoimi), or Tallit (not Tallis) or Tzitzit (not Tzitzis) or Kippah (not Yarmulke) etc.  In fact, this is one of the few, if not the only, article which follows an Ashkenazi pronunciation.  Given that it also conforms to the naming policy, I don't see the harm in leaving it here. Jayjg (talk) 17:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Interestingly, tallit is neither Ashkenazi (talles, tallis) nor Sephardi (tallét, taléd, taléth); brit milah is neither Ashkenazi (bris mile / bris miloh / briss) nor Sephardi (berit milá / berith milá). These forms are exellent examples of modern, widespread "compromise" forms established by modern, mainly Ashkenazi Jews. I am not suggesting that we should make sectarian Sephardi forms be the norm, just like I would prefer that we also avoid sectarian Ashkenazi forms like the one in question. Therefore, we should select the compromise forms: tallit (not tallis or tallét), brit milah (not Sephardi "berit milá" or Ashkenazi "bris(-miloh)"), tzedakah (not Ashkenazi "tzdokoh" or Sephardi "sedacá") and matzah (not Sephardi "massá" or or Ashkenazi "matzoh"). Concerning WP:NAME, it is not quite as usable as an argument for the "matzoh" form as you try to make it — as this policy page could just as easily be used to defend the other forms in question. -- Olve 20:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * All the spellings are essentially "Israeli"; I assert that fewer Sephardim use the traditional Sephardi pronunciations than Ashkenazim who use the traditional Ashkenazi pronunciations. Other than that, I don't particularly agree with changing the name, for the reasons listed, but don't feel overwhelmingly strongly about it either. Jayjg (talk) 17:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

 * BTW, I just moved Chometz to Chametz. ;-) Jayjg (talk) 21:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

 * i think that dictionaries still dont have one standard, with a majority probably writing Matsa or Matza, reflected the near-universal pronunciation. only religious ashkenazi yiddish-speaking jews say 'matso', and it doesnt make sense to have a fringe pronunciation. i would never have thought to type 'matso' to find this article and it is highly misleading for someone unfamiliar, since they will think to pronounce it as it looks. i suggest changing it to Matsa. dgl 02:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

 * My feeling: Who cares about dictionaries? The important thing, as dgl wrote, is which spelling people will tend to think of. For that, either do a survey of how it is spelled on the boxes, or just Google it. But even that isn't so important, if we would just add some redirect pages. So, just to keep dgl happy, I will now add one for matsa, and everyone else can add whatever they like too. --Keeves 11:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

 * This page should be moved to matzah for the reasons stated above. Epson291 21:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

In Hebrew, which is the original source for this word, many matzha are "Matzoth"(מצות) and not "Matzo"(מצו)there is no such a word as מצו in Hebrew-and that's should be the rule, its not matter how people in the diaspora use to prenounce it, as the matzoth are a customary food for the entire Jewish people, and as the word didn't came from Yiddish.--Gilisa 07:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Another vote for MATZAH (or MATZA)!! Where the "o" comes from is beyond my comprehension.--Gilabrand 18:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Matzah is used by Artscroll. Matzo is an Americanised way of spelling. I will proceed to change? Chesdovi (talk) 14:41, 7 April 2010 (UTC) Matzah is used by Artscroll. Matzo is an Americanised way of spelling. I will proceed to change? Chesdovi (talk) 14:41, 7 April 2010 (UTC) I agree that Matzah is the right way to spell it. I don't know where the heck people got the idea of spelling it "Matzo," but it's wrong. Wrong. DanHakimi (talk) 23:15, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I hadn't seen this discussion when I did it, but I have radically changed the article in this respect. There are 3 basic pronunciations, Israeli/Sefaradi matza, Ashkenazi matzo, and Yiddish matze. As the first two are Hebrew words there are variant English transliterations (spellings); no less than 12 are given by OED2. So I have trimmed the first sentence and added a longish section on spelling, pronunciation, and usage. I'm sure this is the subject of many strongly-held opinions, and hope that I've been even-handed enough. I hope this doesn't meet with too much disapproval. Within the article all variants seem to be used, which is fine by me, I don't see any major reason to make it consistent. Pol098 (talk) 17:02, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Really, I want to know your source. I'm President of RPI-Sage Hillel. I've known Jews from all over this country, and from a few others (Israel, Venezuela, Argentina). I've known every manner of Jew there is. I have never once heard anybody pronounce it as anything but "matzah," except maybe once or twice when referring to the soup. Seriously, guys, why is this travesty continuing? DanHakimi (talk) 03:43, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, DanHakimi, using strong words will not get you far in the way of argument. Anyway, I have lived in many countries, and have contact with Jews from many various backgrounds as well, and I have heard "matzeh" and "matzoh" frequently as well. Debresser (talk) 10:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

i hate it that it's misspelled. it's, 'matzoth!' you need to put all the various spellings IN the article. not everyone likes misspelled words when they do searches. ~ ^..^~ catlady87

Quartanzans?
I thought somebody here might know: An article on quartanzans was just created. Apparently, it's a cracker-like bread similar to matza, which is also eaten on Jewish holidays. But the term gets 0 Google hits, so I'm wondering if it's real, or a joke? Thanks. 68.81.231.127 10:35, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy deleted as blatant nonsense. Amongst many things, Yom Kippur is a fast day, so there really can't be a special cracker eaten on that day. Jayjg (talk) 15:39, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the double check. I sometimes wonder how much stealth vandalism we miss. 68.81.231.127 22:55, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

matzo meal
Can anyone tell me what matzo meal is made from? Thanks.

Matzo meal is simply matzo that has been ground up into crumbs. It is often used as a replacement for bread crumbs, such as when breading a cutlet. It can also be used for making a batter for frying pancakes and other foods. If the matzo is ground even further, to flour-like fineness, it is called "matzo cake meal" or just "cake meal", and can be used in making cakes. Because it has already been wet and baked, it no longer has many of the chemical proprties of regular flour. This is why it can be used on Passover, and for the same reason it cannot replace flour in recipes without some adjustment to the recipe; for example, cakes would have more egg to help it fluff better, but breads usually don't come out good at all. --Keeves 3 July 2005 03:13 (UTC)

Christian Child
Excuse me? Blood of a Christian child? I thought that myth was over with since the beginning of the 20th century! It should be removed! (unsigned)

No Myth F-tard!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/08/wjews08.xml (unsigned)

There are processes in Wikipedia to deal with repeated vandalism. I strongly suggest you work this out in therapy, rather than making a fool of yourself in public. FiveRings 15:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure who posted the Telegraph article, but they should know that it's complete and utter nonsense. Amongst other glaring factual inaccuracies, the claim that Pesach is the Jewish Easter is idiotic. Since Easter commemorates Jesus's resurrection and Pesach commemorates the Israelites' escape from Egypt, this akin to calling Chanukah the Jewish Christmas, since they both concern events that happened in the same month. The fact that thousands of years (in the first case) or hundreds (in the second) is obviously a minor concern.--Elmorell 14:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

There have been rumors, investigation, and intrigue into this matter for near a thousand years. Although I have seen no evidence that has refuted the blood case, which is very strange and unique. I think that it should be added in this article, perhaps as a side-note in the ingredients, that such claims were made.

206.172.193.136 02:31, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

 * There's no reason to mention it in the article, since it is nothing but nonsense. All of the so-called "evidence" is based on confessions under the most extreme forms of torture. They would have confessed to being a baked potato had the inquisitors wanted them to. And considering that consuming any blood, let alone consuming human blood, is against Jewish dietary laws, there is just no reason to even give this the slightest credibility. You can't prove that I didn't go to Mars, are you going to give that serious credibility. It's amazing to think that people are so ignorant and/or vile to keep trying to push this garbage.--RLent (talk) 19:16, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Having no evidence by the claimants is not an argument against notability of the claim. To the contrary, around here (Poland), blood libel is nearly synonymous with using the blood of christian babies as an ingredient of matzot. While no one sane would agree with the claim, it nevertheless caused lots of prosecution and murders over the thousand years. KiloByte (talk) 21:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

 * And this brings up an interesting point - the users of Wikipedia have changed, as the users of the Internet have changed. While documenting this as nonsense would have been a waste of time five years ago, now it may actually have value. (ensuing flame war notwithstanding). FiveRings (talk) 18:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

You don't mention adding christian baby blood myth? A pity. 78.88.117.116 (talk) 11:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oy, that would've been kind of hard to come by in the earlier years wouldn't it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.149.81 (talk) 23:41, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2007

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Matzo → Matzah — Move per WP:COMMONNAME. It was controversial a few years ago to make this move, but the near-ubiquity of the spelling "Matzah" among both Jews and non-Jews preempts the traditional Ashkenazi pronunciation. Kari Hazzard ( T  |  C ) 21:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey 2007

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.

Support 2007

 * 1) Support - thanks for putting this up for discussion and formalization. I agree matzah is the more neutral spelling/prounciation and should be the one used. It is both common pronunciation, by both Jews and non-Jews. It makes up the standard Israeli and Sephardi pronunciation, some Ashkenazi pronunciation, and the pronunciation (in my experience) used by most Ashkenazim in the USA, regardless how it is spelled by some Matzah makers (and at the store a few weeks ago I saw at least 5 different spellings of it).  The spelling Matzah (with or without the h) is certainly just as common and again, neutral, I don't see why to keep the spelling this with exlusively Ashkenazi (by some dilects) spelling. Epson291 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Support matzah is the more common spelling. --Shuki 20:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) STRONG SUPPORT. This spelling is a more generalised one rather than the spelling of one ethnic subset only. -- Olve 13:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Oppose 2007

 * 1) Oppose Matzah may be a more accurate transliteration, but matzoh is the more common and intelligible form in English; can we compromise there? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose. Contrary to the incorrect claim (above) of a "near-ubiquity of the spelling "Matzah" among both Jews and non-Jews", dictionaries such as Random House and American Heritage give "Matzo" as the primary spelling, and "Matzo" gets 960,000 Google hits, by far the most for any single spelling; the next highest, "Matzah", gets only 660,000 Google hits. All the major Matzo manufacturers spell it "Matzo". Manischewitz spells it "Matzo". Streit's spells it "Matzo". Even the Israeli company Yehuda's spells it "Matzo". "Matzo" is clearly the most common form in English. Jayjg (talk) 05:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but regardless matzah is still very common spelling. I got 1,131,000 versus 1,327,000 for matzah (including h or no h), that is pretty close. The ditionaries you posted site Yiddish at the etamology, coming from the Hebrew matzAh.  Why is brit milah used, the Yiddish bris is far more common in the U.S.  And don't Striets, and Manishevitz sell mostly Ashkenazi food, so they're using the Yiddish form.  It's better to use the more neutral form, except for something with near unbiquity like kosher.  (Never mind, I checked it goes to kashrut).  But really, I don't think the Yiddish form shouldn't be used unless it's a landslide of difference. (Though Jayjg, if you know, I would like a explanation of why Bris isn't used then, if you know, since it's the much more popular version, espeically in the USA, I don't even think it compares to the differences between matzoh and matzah) Epson291 06:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you're talking about. "Matzah" gets 660,000 hits; "Matzo" gets 960,000, 50% more hits than "Matzah". These are hits on the English form of the word not Yiddish; as the dictionary makes clear, the Yiddish word is matse. I have no idea what your other arguments mean either. This was supposed to be a discussion about what the common English term is, now you're talking about what a "neutral" term is instead. Well, the common, neutral, English form is "Matzo", which is not the Yiddish term Matse. Jayjg (talk) 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Jayjg, I know but if you look here , they show its etymology as "Yiddish matse, from Hebrew massah." This is what I brought up. My numbers included with and without the h, which I mentioned. Epson291 08:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry if my point wasn't clear, but the point I was trying to make was that they are both fairly popular spellings and the one that is the Israeli spelling should be used. (But I might be a bit biased as that's what I speak). Cheers Epson291 12:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying, but it's still incorrect. Words in English have all sorts of different etymologies, but they're not relevant; what matters is that by far the single most common English spelling is "Matzo". As for "Israeli spelling", Israelis write in Hebrew; English spelling is what matters here. And finally, as I've already pointed out, even Israeli Matzo companies spell it "Matzo". Jayjg (talk) 20:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Jayjg you are not correct. The matzah I bought for pesach, was from אסם (Osem), a large Israeli matzah company and it was spelt "OSEM ISRAELI MATZAH" on the box, and at the store in Toronto, Canada where I am living right now, מצה was spelled in English in all the different ways by the matzah making companies. You're generalizing.  Epson291 07:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Osem may spell it "Matzah", but as I pointed out Yehuda spells it "Matzo". Yehuda is an Israeli company. Aviv also spells it Matzo. It was you who generalized, claiming the "Israeli" way is "Matzah". Clearly some Israeli companies spell it "Matzo". Jayjg (talk) 21:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, now you've changed it to "some", from "all". That is the generalization I called you on. Clearly, matzah is a spelling that is used often, and the neutral one that is not to one specific sub ethnic group. And clearly matzah is the israeli spelling as it is not pronouced matzo in Modern Hebrew Epson291 00:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Oppose As a ba'al kriyah and amateur devotee of the dikduk of lashon kodesh, I personally would prefer "Matzoh" due to the hey at the end of the word; however, I think that Jayjg has it correct in that the common spelling in English is now "Matzo" and not "Matzah". -- Avi 05:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose In the Hebrew wikipedia it should obviously be the Sephardic spelling. In the English Wikipedia the spelling should track common English usage. Google reports 939,000 hits for Matzo - vastly more than for any other spelling. Websters lists Matzo, with Matzoh as an alternate spelling. Wikipedia is for reflection of reality, not for new research, remember? FiveRings 18:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It might be worth noting that a lot of of the Google hits for "matzo" aren't in English and that consensus has followed using Israeli term/spelling in Brit milah, Tallit, Kippah, Shabbat, Shavuot, Sukkot, Simchat Torah, Hamantash, Charoset and numerous others. Is there a valid WP:IAR claim for this particular article? Kari Hazzard  ( T  |  C ) 17:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What makes those the "Israeli" spelling, and what makes you think there's a "consensus"? As far as I can tell those articles are at the most common English spelling, as is this one. Jayjg (talk) 21:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It might be more worthwhile to note that in the Hebrew wikipedia it should be spelled in Hebrew... For the record, "Unleavened bread" is probably more common in English than either "matzah" or "matzo"...if, for no other reason, than that that's how it's translated into English in, I believe, every non-Jewish English-language bible translation... Tom e rtalk  08:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * yes, in Hebrew it will be מצה no matter whether you're spelling it Sephardi or Ashkenazi or anything else. As for English, for some reason the proper spellings are Yemenite. Beth, S(h)abbath, Mitzvoth; these are all the formal English rendering of words most Jews do not pronounce that way. The plural for Matzah/Matzo will probably be Matzoth (in fact, Firefox didn't put the spelling-error redline under matzoth, nor matzot nor matzo. It did however declare matzah to be a misspelling...) --  Valley   2   city   ₪‽ 19:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't wanna go too far off subject here...first and foremost tho, Firefox obviously isn't the arbiter of proper transliterations. :-p  The "English" isn't actually Yemenite, it's Greek, which has no "sh", but does have a "th".  Mitzvoth is neither Greek, nor is it Yemenite—it's a minority Sefardic (and a few types of Mizrachi) pronunciation.  (Teimani uses "miṣwoth", Greek, if anything, would use either "misoth" or "misvoth".  English doesn't have a word for this tho, because in English it's always translated as "commandment".)  It could be worse...as odd as Ashkenazi sounds to me (mostly because of a horrid reduction of consonants and, among English speakers, replacement of // or // with // or the less alien sounding (found especially among those close to the "old country") // or // (although this sometimes confuses me, since I confuse it with ג)...and because of its many dialectal permutations of vowel sounds), there are some pronunciations of Hebrew, historically mainly, that were far more incomprehensible...the Hebrew of (especially pre-Haskala) southern France comes to mind, for example...  Anyhoo, enough ramblage from me, methinks.  Shabath shalom, Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  22:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Oppose. Personally, I find Ashkenazi Hebrew to sound incredibly harsh, and, especially in its various American incarnations, completely incomprehensible...but to avoid wars between who spells what which way, and whom Wikipedia should pay attention to, I say leave it alone.  I wish the same respect had prevailed with poseq, but I'm not vindictive, so I can't vote "support" just to get rid of Ashkenazi misspellings and mispronunciations...  Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  08:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose. as per what I said a few lines up (my signature is easily locatable). You're never going to make everyone happy with transliterated spellings, but Matzo wins the google-test so I think it should retain the article name with "alternatively: Matzah" in the first line of the article. --  Valley   2   city   ₪‽ 19:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 06:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Egg matzah
Since it was written as if all Ashk. don't eat egg matzah, I gathered aditional sources. Someone with some knoledge of the subject, please look at my edits. I cited Chabad. Anyways, I tried to provide some more background and reasoning into the subject. Epson291 02:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You should cite the side of the Manischewitz box... That would be an interesting halachic citation. I am actually serious about this as the company is quite reputable for their matzah-making. --  Valley   2   city   ₪‽ 19:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if it says anything the streits does, I believe it cites because of shulchan aruch. Epson291 21:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Ashkenazim allow egg mazza (on Passover) only for the elderly or infirm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 21:04, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Should me mentioned that soft mazza includes oil in the recipe. Laws relevant to the oil used for mazza are included in the beginning of the Me'am L'ez Hagaddah. for example.

Name, revisited
I've been thinking about it, and after a professor who said that anything that ends in a "hey" (ה) should be transliterated ending with an "h", I think this page should be moved to Matzah. And if you're trying the google test, note that most of the results for Matza are people's names or the name of a place in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, so that's not very reliable at all. <b style="background:blue; color:white; font-family:Comic Sans MS;">Valley</b>2 city ‽ 15:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

advertising
hallo, isn't the main picture in the article just a bit to much free advertising for the matze-company in question? --Ajnem (talk) 11:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested move II
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved —innotata 16:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Matzo → Matzah — Although many brands use matzo, I feel Matzah is the proper and more common English spelling. Chesdovi (talk) 15:15, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

 * Comment: Matzah is used by Artscroll ("Matzah") and by Shimon Eider z"l in his Halachos of Pesach (note that both use matzos for the plural form.) Chesdovi (talk) 15:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Support

 * Support - Ashkenazi spellings and pronunciations are deprecated to Sephardic spellings and pronunciations according to Israel. - UtherSRG (talk) 23:07, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Support -- The current English spelling and pronunciation seems to be strongly moving to Matzah. (Israeli official spellings is not really relevant to Wikipedia). US Ashkenazis would probably say "matzaw" and spell it "matzo". This confusion does nobody any good to perpetuate (though it should be mentioned) Mjchonoles (talk) 01:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I would point out that ArtScroll Ashkenazic translations use matzah. Chesdovi (talk) 11:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Oppose

 * Oppose What is this? Double Jeopardy?  (The legal term, not the game..) Is the previous discussion/decision not enough?  The fact that there are redirects?  The fact that alternative spellings are listed and included in the article?  What you 'feel' is irrelevant, and this 'poll' pointless. 1) Most of the major manufacturers still use Matzo.  2) Google hits still rank matzo 600,000+, matzah 400,000+ 3) Do I really need to reiterate all the points previously made? Centerone (talk) 06:14, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Bearing in mind the last Requested move was 3 years ago, the policy at GNUM would indicate that the google test you and others relied upon in the last Requested move is flawed as many pages are no doubt duplicates of this Wikipedia page, and, as Valley2city noted earlier, “the results for Matza are people's names or the name of a place in the Star Wars Expanded Universe”. If we used a more reliable google search at google books we come up with the following results, (I included the word “Passover” to refine search results:
 * Matzo = 1,316
 * Matzoh = 1,145
 * Total for "o/oh": 2,461
 * Matza = 1,262
 * Matzah = 1,212
 * Total for "a/ah": 2,474

 * Also note that it would seem that the majority of results for "Matzo" are for cookbooks, while "Matzah" is used more widely in more academic genres. Other editors also previously noted that it would be more grammatically correct to have the word ending with an “h”. Chesdovi (talk) 09:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that this is flawed logic. First, your reasoning was that matzah is a more common spelling; if this was the case, then one should be able to prove it in sources which point this out.  Your own books.google search shows Matzo as the most popular form.  You simply cannot logically combine forms and conclude that use of the a in one form is the same as use of the ah in another; as has previously been pointed out, some people sometimes use one form for singular, and another for plural sometimes with different vowels, not to mention there are a whole host of other reasons that dictates this is a logically fallacy.  In addition, your requesting a move to matzah NOT matza. Also, the idea that the google search is inaccurate due to 'many pages are duplicates of wikipedia' then that also means that many pages replicate the numerous uses of alternative spellings in the page.  I could understand this logic if Matzo was the only spelling on the page, with only one sentence of alternative spellings, however, different spellings are used throughout the article many times and so, would also be equally reflected in search results.  As far as why you would include passover to refine the search, I would disagree with the logic, but I do see that in some cases it is necessary to partially or fully remove uses where the word is a name.  Matzo is not just used for passover; Matzo is matzo. For my google.books.com search: matzo - 1499, matzah - 1104  For a scholar.google.com search it is necessary to use passover to remove a lot of names which come up first (matzo by itself produces 6060 results, the first of which are names -- if you search matzo passover however you still get 3590.  A scholar.google search for matzah produces only 1680 results.. the strange thing is, a search for matzah passover increases hits to 3240.  A search for matzos passover reveals that this increase may be due to the artificial inclusion of alternative spellings, because this search clearly includes matzah spellings in a similar result.  BTW, shouldn't we move your response and my response to your response to under discussion?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Centerone (talk • contribs) 11:37, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * We should sideline google in this case, not only due to the considerations you raised, but also because, although being spelt "Matzah", its plural form is spelt "Matzos" even by those who employ the singular "Matzah". (I would add that the reason manufacturers may use "Matzo" in the singular form, rather than "Matzah", may be for consumer considerations, so as not to be over confusing.) מצה is not spelt with a "וֹ" but a "ה" which would be represented by a "h", see IPA for Hebrew. Chesdovi (talk) 12:02, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Oppose; per Jayjg in the previous move discussion and my own experience, matzo is far more commonly used in English and should be used per WP:AT. Knepflerle (talk) 19:23, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose Matzo is far more common; and whether matzah is "more correct" depends on whether one views the word as Hebrew or Yiddish, and - more importantly - how one spells Yiddish in the Roman alphabet, something on which there is no consistency at all. (I repeat my proposal of matzoh, above.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:46, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Changeing the name of the article
It's called Matza in hebrew, not Matzo wich is in the ashkenazic dialects.

the israelites also called it "Matza" - flat, unleavend whole-grain bread. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.177.181.173 (talk) 02:21, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Definition
I notice that the word is spelled מַצָּה. In my Hebrew book it says that the word מָצָה means "he/it found (out), reached, obtained", in the Qal form, and in the Niphal, "he/it was found sufficient". I note that the first vowel is different. Can anyone comment about whether the two words are forms of the same thing, and if so, whether some relevant information should go into the article? Thanks,

-- TimNelson (talk) 08:14, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

 * No connection. The third letter of the food is a heh (similar to H) and the third letter of "found" is an alef (silent a/e/i/o/u). Different root. The plural of matza with an alef would be matza'im (m) or matza'ot (f), not matzot. However, there is no such word. [There is another word, matz'a with an 'ayin, meaning bedding, used mainly in horticulture and construction, and its plural is matza'im where the i is a theoretically-guttural 'ayin, though rarely pronounced that way in modern Hebrew). Sorry that you received this reply after 7.5 years! Monosig (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Blood Libels
Blood libels, although false in premise, were a significant part of the persecution of the Jews in many countries, rooted in a Christain myth about Matzah. Due to its significance within the scope of Matzah, there should be at least some mention of Blood libels rather than no mention at all. Colt .55 (talk) 21:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move III
As there seems to be such debate about the name of the article, maybe the title should reflect the two main pronunciations (pronunciation is, I think, more of an issue than spelling). So maybe the article should be called something like "Matzah/matzo" (matzah first purely alphabetically, or "matzo/matzah", or any other desired spellings). Or maybe "mozza", one of the OED spellings, which goes well with "pizza"... Pol098 (talk) 17:14, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

"Mazza" is the spelling on some of the boxes of machine mazza. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.208.244 (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

 * "mozza" is a joke, of course. Titles on Wikipedia are singular, that is, follow only one spelling (the one preferred by the Wikipedia naming conventions). That said and done, I'd prefer "matzA" (with or without the "h"). Debresser (talk) 18:01, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

 * BTW, perhaps we'd use one consistent spelling in the article? Debresser (talk) 18:07, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

 * consistent spelling ... which would have to be matzo, the article title. I don't have any strong opinion which to use. Inconsistent spelling emphasises that there's disagreement, which is true and relevant, more so perhaps than enforced conformity. Pol098 (talk) 18:15, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

 * All this discussion assumes that we're speaking of a spelling; I think people are far more concerned about pronunciation. E.g., I think somebody who prefers matzah would be more comfortable with matza than matzo. Pol098 (talk) 18:15, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Still 2 separate entries that need to be combined --matzo should be subsumed into Matza  because most Hebrew speakers in the world use that modern Israeli (so called Sephardic, but simply Israeli fusion) pronunciation. With note and disambiguation that matzo is Ashkenazic pronunciation. no such problem in https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A6%D7%94 Yohananw (talk) 11:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Please move to matza. It is a Hebrew word and that is how it is pronounced.--Geewhiz (talk) 11:41, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

"matzo" is also correct as transliteration of spoken Ashkenazi Hebrew (which dialect was the in majority before the Holocaust. Same as in Yiddish). As there are many duplicate matza/matzo recipes like matza ball / matzo ball... best to start with a disambiguation before move to under matza. I'll look up wiki help Yohananw (talk) 11:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Position of "Forms of the word" section
I would suggest that the"Forms of the word" section is best placed at the beginning of the article; most articles with an "etymology" or similar section do this. It is particularly important for this article as the use of different pronunciations by different groups of people (and throughout he article) is otherwise puzzling (the article should make sense to someone who knows nothing about the subject). I had originally placed it at the beginning, but it has been moved near the bottom. I don't think I should make this change; if there is consensus that it should be near the beginning I suggest that it be moved there. Pol098 (talk) 23:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Ingredients § — "Biblically" and Five Species
In the Ingredients section, the third paragraph begins with "Biblically, five specific species of grain become chametz after wetting." Instead of "Biblically" would not "Halakhally" be more accurate as this assertion is based mostly on halakha, not directly from the biblical text? — al-Shimoni  (talk) 01:53, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree. What is meant is that according to halakha this is de'oraita not miderabanan. 07:32, 26 December 2011 (UTC)Debresser (talk)

Five grains and genus idenfitication
The section on the five grains that can become chametz includes the claim that all Triticum grains are forbidden, but three of the five listed (einkorn, emmer, and durum) are Triticum species. Can someone resolve this discrepancy? chrylis (talk) 10:34, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

All of those grains will be forbidden UNLESS they are baked into mazza. Mazza may be made only from these grains. Only these grains can become true chometz. Once they are baked into mazza, they can no longer become chometz.

Consistency of spelling
I don't care what the spelling is, and certainly don't care to get into that battle with anyone1 (which is why I'm not inclined to make the necessary changes myself), but it would be really nice if consistent spelling could be used throughout the article. As it stands right now, the title is "Matzo", the introductory paragraph lists "matza" as the primary spelling and "matzah" as the secondary, and throughout the article, "matza" and "matzah" are in free variation, ignoring "matzo" despite it being the title of the article. Also, though "matzot" is (correctly) listed as the plural, within that same paragraph, "matzos" (I'm not sure whether that's English plural -s or the Ashkenazi t > s sound change) is used as the plural. Meanwhile, the article on balls made of it is titled "Matzah balls", so even the titles aren't consistent with each other, making finding related articles confusing.

1 Though if anyone cares: I'm an Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jew and native speaker of American English with a bit of Yiddish; I usually spell it but occasionally fall back on (how I spelled it when I was little); and pronounce it [ˈmɑ.ʦə]. I have never seen it spelled without a final <-h> by anyone I know (which includes Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Mizrahim, and Goyim), only on packaging or the internet; and have only heard it pronounced [ˈmɑ.ʦə] or [ˈmɑ.ʦi], the latter only by Lubavitchers. -- AudiblySilenced (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Etymology
Matza. This website has the possible etymology of matzoh. Komitsuki (talk) 14:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ingredients: Spelt vs. Emmer
Through a roundabout way, I read the article on spelt, then followed it here. The spelt article mentions that the usage of spelt in Ezekiel 4:9 is presumably a mistranslation, and should actually be emmer, as spelt wasn't grown in the area. For that matter, after reading the article on Chametz, rye and oats aren't native to Israel either.

I see nothing about this in this article, and I think there should be mention of the disagreement or uncertainty over the five grains.68.12.195.143 (talk) 16:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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"Matzo Ball" links in "Cooking with matzo" section incorrect
Hi -- the "matzo ball" links in the "Cooking with matzo" section don't link to the food article but instead link to the page "Matzo Ball" which is a Christmas Eve social event. I am new and don't make wikipedia edits; could someone with more experience correct these? This occurs both in the body of the section and in the image caption. I believe it is due to the spelling of "matzo" vs "matzah" that the links go to the incorrect page. 98.172.28.240 (talk) 16:51, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out. I've changed the redirection on "Matzo ball" (with a lowercase "b") to "Matzah ball", which does seem like the more likely target. Nitpicking polish (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 12 June 2022
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  08:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Matzo → Matzah – This was last discussed 12 years ago, when "Matzo" was apparently the most common name. Google search now turns up more results for "Matzah", and Ngram shows a significant gap. The "Matzah" spelling is also closer to prevailing English models for Hebrew transliteration, including WP:HE. GordonGlottal (talk) 04:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC) <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support. Ngrams shows that the "matzah" spelling is almost 40% more common than "matzo", suggesting that it's the definite WP:COMMONNAME. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:49, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Transliteration
@Pookerella: it would seem that the issue is deeper than simply an "incorrect" spelling of "matzah", wouldn't you think? Elizium23 (talk) 21:10, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

 * I refer editors to the immediately preceding section. It's a little soon for another move request, though unfortunately there weren't many editors involved. Arguments should be based on WP:TITLE guidelines. GordonGlottal (talk) 00:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The article can have only one title, but the topic can be spelled in myriad ways throughout the article, with varying justifications. There is no justification for Pookerella to excise "matzah" from it. Elizium23 (talk) 00:32, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Soft matzah
Soft matzah is produced commercially, and is sold frozen because of the short shelf life. 2A06:C701:440B:6B00:ECCC:749D:5A5:D5AF (talk) 07:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

"See also: Blood libel" absolutely belongs here
hi.

I can see absolutely no reason for you removing "See also: Blood libel, antisemitic claim that matzah is baked with Christian children's blood".

The topic is directly connected.

Having an item with a horribly negative connotation, but directly related to the topic at hand, linked to it in an encyclopedia, does in no way "defile" the topic. It is very basic encyclopedic work. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 19:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

 * Hello. Can you point to another similar page that has a similar "see also"? It still seems so out of place. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * hi again. Have your pick. Any page that rationally connects to a related one, whatever the connotation. This is a topic completely connected to matzah, what do you see as "out of place"? The Stadtkirche Wittenberg is a beatiful church where Luther has preached. Dachau is a lovely little town. Kfar Aza an idyllic village. Yet the first one has a famous Judensau statue, the second sports a death camp, and the third was the site of a massacre. The wonderful Charles Bridge in my favourite city, Prague, has a statue with an antisemitic Hebrew inscription on it. If you're waiting specifically for another major Judaism-related example with a link to a horrible antisemitic distortion: well, sorry, but THIS HERE IS THE TOP EXAMPLE, nothing compares. The poisoning of wells, usury, world domination - none of the other fix ideas of the "rumour about Jews" believers are Judaism-connected (not for a sane mind, that is). The blood libel isn't sane either, but it's closely focused on matzah. Why? I have no idea. Maybe a sick connection to "this is my body"? I don't know, kiddush wine would have served the purpose better ("this is my blood"). I probably wouldn't make a good conspiracy theorist. But these are the facts: the blood libel goes after matzah-eaters. And on Wiki we're cataloguing, explaining, - and indicating connections between facts.
 * PS: I see the wine issue did cross people's minds, be it rather late, see here. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 22:18, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Matzo: own DAB page, not redirect to here
The edit by our colleague (w/o summary), who has removed the tag at the top of the page sending users looking for the actress called Emma Matzo at birth to her own page, has driven my attention to the illogical redirect from "matzo" to "matzah". Illogical because there are 3 items called matzo or Matzo: the actress, the Matzo Ball and Matzo lasagna, plus 3 items starting with matzo-. I have therefore started a DAB page with these items, with matzah linked in the lead, the 3 exact matches listed underneath the lead, and a "See also" with the matzo- items. The invisible technical details will have to be added, if thought necessary, by those who know how.

My only issue is: the resulting talk page is still connecting to this one. Who can please fix that? Thanks, Arminden (talk) 23:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Get the advertisement out of here
What is the Manischewitz company homepage doing at External links?! Arminden (talk) 08:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Origin
As far as I can tell, unleavened bread is the oldest type ever to be baked, the oldest sample was found at a Natufian site in Jordan's Black Desert and is 14,500 year old. But it could have been anywhere in the region, I guess, as that culture and previous ones spread across the Southern Levant and possibly a wider area of the Fertile Crescent. So the fellow editor who replaced Egypt with Canaan, but w/o a source, was onto something geographically speaking, but the term suggests a later civilization than the Epipalaeolithic (see Natufian), so not that accurate either. I've removed Ancient Egypt as place of origin, because that's unsupported in every way you look at it - both archaeologically (possible theoretically, but Jordan ain't Egypt not) and biblically (leavened bread was typically and symbolically the Egyptian "thing" to be left behind). Arminden (talk) 11:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

 * See History of bread and History of bread. Arminden (talk) 12:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

What is "Matzah meal"?
Hi David, this might be something for you. It doesn't seem to be related to the English word 'meal'. Is it maybe Yiddish? In German, Mehl means 'flour', so maybe that's what it's derived from. If so, it shouldn't be used here w/o being introduced, as it's not English and the word meal already exists and has another meaning. That both words have to do with eating only makes it more, not less confusing.

Use Italics? A suggestion. Or at least single or full quotation marks. Arminden (talk) 12:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Hi, I see you know your way around the topic. Maybe you can explain? Arminden (talk) 16:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, the use of the word "meal" in "matzah meal" is not directly related to the common English meaning of a meal as an eating occasion. In this context, "meal" is likely referring to the finely ground, flour-like substance produced by grinding up matzah. As a culturally-specific Jewish cooking term, I think it would be better to set it apart using italics, single quotes, or some other stylistic cue.TheRabbi613 (talk) 19:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I went ahead, looked it up and it was as I thought: it's Yidd. mel, related to Ger. Mehl, but Eng. has meal also for more coarsely ground flour. Linked, done. Arminden (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not derived from Yiddish. The usage of the word meal as a finely ground food like flour likely goes to before Yiddish even existed. You can also note that these uses were in earlier languages such as old english and German.. and Yiddish is derived from German. So the origin is older. According to dictionary dot com, "Origin of meal (definition 2) First recorded before 900; Middle English mele, Old English melu;  cognate with German Mehl, Dutch meel, Old Norse mjǫl, Gothic malan;  akin to Latin molere  “to grind” (see mill1)"  clear examples of similar uses in language are things like "corn meal". Centerone (talk) 05:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * , hi. Thanks, but I believe you misunderstood the very etymology you're quoting: it's an old Germanic word for flour, which made it through Mittelhochdeutsch (Middle High German) into Yiddish. The word for meal as an "eating session" has a different etymology, but homophones often have the habit to be conflated with each other, to "borrow meanings" one from the other. Unless you can prove with sources that that wasn't the case here, I don't see your point. Arminden (talk) 05:57, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Please check out the etymology at this entry (if you find a more authoritative one, I'd be very happy to read it), and compare with the one for Matzah brei. Yiddish isn't just derived from German, it is to a large degree Middle High German. Arminden (talk) 06:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Meal, second definition. Meal, second etymology for that second meaning. Definition: meal 2[ meel ] noun  a coarse, unsifted powder ground from the edible seeds of any grain: wheat meal;cornmeal.  any ground or powdery substance, as of nuts or seeds, resembling this.  That definition.  The etymology I quote above is *completely different* than the etymology for the meaning eating session. BOTH meanings and BOTH etymologies predate yiddish.  The use in modern English of meal in the meaning of "matzah meal" is not derived from Yiddish.  It's not me that misunderstood. Centerone (talk) 06:11, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * and BTW, jewish-languages dot org isn't a reliable source. It's not "authoritative". It's by it's own definition, a combination of wiki and urban dictionary -- From their about: "Welcome to the Jewish English Lexicon (JEL), a collaborative database of distinctive words that are used in the speech or writing of English-speaking Jews. Think of it as the Wiktionary or Urban Dictionary of Jewish language." Centerone (talk) 06:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to understand how it works and are becoming militant.
 * The etymology of a Germanic word cannot precede Yiddish, as Yiddish is based on Mittelhochdeutsch, is a secondary branch on the Indogermanic tree, on the same major common branch with all the Germanic languages, on par with, say, Dutch. This applies fully to all the German-based Yiddish words, like mel for flour.
 * But I can read between the lines, so drop it, you FEEL this way for whatever personal reasons you might have and no amount of logical reasoning will get through. Have a nice weekend. Arminden (talk) 10:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Relatedly I'm curious about the word "crispy" in "Matzah meal is crispy matzah that has been ground". Certainly true these days but historically early modern sources like David HaLevi Segal define it as מצה טחונה or מצה כתושה = "ground matzah." I found this detailed description of the manufacturing process in an expanded Yiddish translation of Isaac Tyrnau's Minhagim but it's a little beyond my skill: https://books.google.com/books?id=vwdiAAAAcAAJ&pg=PP29. If someone with better Yiddish can translate I think it'd provide a good data point for the history, because it predates the introduction of crispy matzah according to the timeline on this page: "Prior to the late 18th century, all matzah was soft and relatively thick". GordonGlottal (talk) 00:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Matzah