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Syros

Syros (Σύρος ), also known as Siros or Syra, is a Greek island in the Cyclades, in the Aegean Sea. It is 78 nmi south-east of Athens. The area of the island is 83.6 km² and at the 2021 census it had 21,124 inhabitants.

The largest towns are Ermoupoli, Ano Syros, and. Ermoupoli is the capital of the island, the Cyclades, and the South Aegean. It has always been a significant port town, and during the 19th century it was even more significant than Piraeus. Other villages are Galissas, Foinikas, Pagos, Manna, Kini and Poseidonia.

Ermoupoli

Ermoupoli (Ερμούπολη) stands on a naturally amphitheatrical site, with neo-classical buildings, old mansions, and white houses cascading down to the harbour. It was built during the Greek War of Independence in the 1820s.

The city hall is in the center of the town, in Miaoulis Square, ringed with cafés, seating areas, and palm trees. Dubbed the "City of Hermes", Syros has numerous churches, such as Metamorphosis, Koimisis, St. Demetrius, Three Hierarchs, Anastasis, Evangelistria, and St. Nicolas. There is an archaeological museum and a municipal library.

The quarter of Vaporia is where sea captains traditionally lived. There are numerous neo-classical mansions along the quarter's narrow streets.

Ano Syros

Ano Syros is the second town of Syros and was built by the Venetians at the beginning of the 13th century on the hill of San Giorgio, north-west of Ermoupoli. Ano Syros maintains a medieval atmosphere. Innumerable steps between narrow streets and houses with coloured doors lead to the top of the town. The medieval settlement of Ano Syros is accessible by car; the town is served mostly by marble steps. The distance from the harbour up to the main entry point of the town is about 1000 metres. The Catholic cathedral of Saint George dominates Ano Syros. The cathedral church was constructed during the 13th century. From the cathedral visitors have a panoramic view of the neighbouring islands of Tinos, Delos, Mykonos, Paros, Andros and Naxos.

Kastri culture
The history of settlement on Syros goes back at least 5,000 years, to the Early Bronze Age of the Cycladic civilization. This is when the hill-top settlement of Kastri (Syros) began. Archaeologists describe Early Cycladic III (ECIII) culture as Kastri culture. It had links with the Anatolian Trade Network, connected with Limantepe in Asia Minor.

Kastri, dated by archaeologists to 2800-2300 BC, was one of the earliest settlements in Greece that were protected by stone walls with rounded bastions. Also the cemetery of Chalandriani is associated with Kastri. Inside the fortification, the houses shared party walls and were packed close together. It is estimated that the fortified town was home to up to 300 people.

The site was first discovered and excavated in 1898 by Christos Tsountas, the "father of Cycladic research". Kastri had some of the earliest metalwork in the region, and also some of the earliest use of potter's wheel.

Antiquity

Throughout history, the island was known as Syra (Σύρα), then Syros or Siros (Σῦρος). In later times, it appears to have been inhabited by the Phoenicians. In the Odyssey, Syros was the country of the swineherd Eumaeus who described it at length (Odyssey, XV, 403 sq.), although it has also been suggested that Eumaeus referred to Syracuse, Sicily.

The island was also the home of the philosopher Pherecydes, the teacher of Pythagoras. It possessed two leading cities, Syros (now the modern Ermoupoli) and another city (Galessus) on the western coast where Galissas now stands.

The island did not play an important role during antiquity or the early Christian years. It was not even a diocese at a time when even the smallest island possessed its bishop. During Roman times, the capital of Syros was situated in the area of contemporary Ermoupoli.

Middle Ages

At the end of ancient times, barbarian raids and piracy, which affected the Aegean for many centuries, led Syros to decline. The island, along with the other Cyclades, was devastated several times during the Middle Ages by raiders from different directions including Sicilians, Arabs, Turks and Venetians.

In the Byzantine years Syros constituted part of the Theme of the Aegean Sea, along with the rest of the Cycladic islands. After the overthrow of Byzantium in the Fourth Crusade by the Venetians and Franks in 1204, the island was definitively conquered by the Venetians under the leadership of Marco Sanudo. As part of the Duchy of the Archipelago, Syros would remain under Venetian rule until 1566 although after 1540 this was only maintained by payment of tribute to the Ottoman Sultan.

It was at this time that Ano Syros was founded. During the Latin period, the majority of the local community were Roman Catholics, but maintained the Greek language. During the reign of almost three and a half centuries of the Duchy of the Archipelago, Syros had a singular feudal regime.

Ottoman Era

By the 16th century, the Ottoman fleet became dominant in the Aegean and the Duchy fell apart. In 1522 the corsair Barbarossa took possession of the island, which would be known as "Sire" during Ottoman rule. However, negotiations of the local authorities with the Ottomans gave the Cyclades substantial privileges, such as the reduction of taxes and religious freedom.

At the same time, following an agreement of France and the Holy See with the Ottoman authorities, the Catholics of the island came under the protection of France and Rome and so Syros sometimes was called "the Pope's island".

The Roman Catholic diocese of Syros was a Latin diocese, suffragan of Naxos. The Venetians had established there a Latin bishopric which was subject to the Latin Archbishopric of Athens until 1525. From the time of the island's occupation by the Turks in the 16th century, the Greeks established an Orthodox metropolitan on Syros: Joseph is the earliest known, along with Symeon who died in 1594 and Ignatius in 1596. The island became for the most part Catholic.

The list of titular bishops may be found in Le Quien and in Eubel. The most celebrated among them is Ioannis Andreas Kargas, whom the Turks strangled in 1617 because he refused to convert to Islam and because he was helping Greek revolutionaries hiding on the island.

After the second half of the 17th century, a period of economic recovery of the Aegean began, climaxing during the transition from the 18th to the 19th century. The special regime of the islands allowed the development of local self-government. The decline of piracy since the beginning of the 19th century led to the gradual liberation of the sea routes of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Greek War of Independence and 19th century

Due to its crucial geographical position, Syros became known as a maritime way-point. Moreover, the special social, religious and institutional conditions prevailing on the island, led Syriots to neutrality at the beginning of the Greek Revolution in 1821. As a result, Syros became a secure shelter during the Revolution, attracting many Greek refugees from Asia Minor, Chios, Spetses, Psara, Aivali, Smyrna, Kydonia, Kassos and other places. These refugees built Ermoupoli.

In 1827 Syros became part of the newly founded First Hellenic Republic and later (1834) the Greek Kingdom. The island returned to peace and tranquility, Syros became known as a cross-road in the Aegean and as an international commercial center linking Western Europe and the Mediterranean sea to the East. The construction of the first buildings began in 1822, and in 1824 the first Orthodox Church Metamorphosis and the largest Greek sanatorium was constructed.

Because of the Venetian domination from the Middle Ages onwards, the islanders had a Roman Catholic majority. However, due to immigration from other islands, Catholics now constitute some 47% of the population. The majority of the population are Greek Orthodox. Intermarriage between Churches is very common in Syros. There is also a single parish of the Byzantine Greek Catholic Church.

During 1831 Syros played a prominent role in the elaboration of the new Greek Constitution. Under Ioannis Kapodistrias (Giovanni Capo D'Istria), the first Governor of the new state, the population of Ermoupolis had reached 13,805 residents and the city had evolved into a seat of government.

It had a Commercial Court of Law, a post office (one of the first in Greece), insurance brokerages, the first public school, a branch of the National Bank of Greece, art gallery, museum, library, a social club for the elite society etc. However, in 1854 cholera and a series of other epidemics plunged Syros into mourning. A number of charitable institutions for public health and social services were established during this period: orphanages, poorhouses and a mental hospital.

Newcomers, mainly mariners and tradesmen, gave the island a new dynamic, which along with its demographic and economic development, turned it into an administrative and cultural centre. Newcomers flocked to the island and founded the town of Ermoupoli, which rapidly became the leading port of Greece.

Between 1822 and 1865, Ermoupoli was rebuilt in a Neoclassical style, merging Greek Classicism with elements of the Renaissance. Many landmarks such as the City Hall (designed by the German architect Ernst Ziller), the Apollo Theatre by the Italian architect Pietro Campo (a miniature version of the La Scala in Milan), the main Library, the General Hospital of Syros (Vardakeio-Proio), Miaoulis square and other buildings were built during that period of time. Passing through on 6 April 1864, the effect of all the sugary marble is such that the English artist Edward Lear, refers to the town fondly in his diary as "the old sparkly pile".

The European architects (mainly Germans and Italians) and also Greeks who participated in the design and planning of Ermoupolis respected the classical and ancient Greek architecture and harmonized it with the romanticism of the West. Ermoupoli has a high density of neoclassical architecture. The prosperity of Syros was connected with the development of social and cultural life. The evolutionary cycle was completed with the creation of the first industrial units during the decade of 1860–70.

Most public buildings, churches, schools, stadiums and many mansions were built in the same elegant and neoclassical style, making Ermoupoli at the time a very modern city with a unique character. As a result, Syros changed almost overnight from a rather quiet island into a vigorous centre of crafts, industry and production. Also, due to its large port of Ermoupoli, it turned into a major centre for ship building and refitting. Neorion was the first shipyard of Greece. To this very day, it remains a place where many ships are serviced and refitted.

Since 1830 the commerce of fabrics, silk, ship building, leather and iron developed on Syros and at the same time a powerful banking system was created. The tremendous growth and development of Ermoupolis continued and until 1860 Syros was the most important commercial harbour in Greece. Together with commerce and ship building, construction and public works were also developed. The Greek Steamship Company was founded in 1856.

A period of decline then followed, as sailing gave way to steam, the importance of the geographical situation of the island was reduced and Piraeus harbour finally took the predominant position in Greece - with the competition of Patras also reducing Syros' commercial importance.

20th century
Beginning at the end of the 19th century and for several decades, a temporary economic recovery took place, due to the development of the textile industry ("Foustanos-Karellas-Velissaropoulos & Co").

The Second World War reduced Syros' economic development, as was the case for every economic centre in Greece. However, already since the 1980s, along with the generalized economic recovery and the rise of the living standards in Greece, elements of improvement appeared with tourism as its central axis. At the same time, the re-opening of the Neorion shipyards, as well as a number of other activities, indicate that Syros is on an upward trend.

Ermoupoli today has 7 elementary schools, 2 junior high schools, 2 high schools, 2 technical schools and the Aegean University with a department of Fine Arts and system design, with a proposed future addition in Applied Arts and Visual Arts. The Syros Island National Airport, the Aegean casino, the frequent passenger boat transportation system and all other modern amenities help to attract many domestic and foreign tourists to the island all year round.

Syros also has a British cemetery where various people are buried, including many seamen and servicemen who died in the Cyclades region, particularly during the Second World War. The numerous consulates of countries such as France, Britain, Italy, the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries bear witness to the connection of Syros with the wider European scene.

Administration

Syros is a separate regional unit of the South Aegean region. The only municipality of the regional unit is Syros-Ermoupoli. As a part of the 2011 Kallikratis government reform, the regional unit Syros was created out of part of the former Cyclades Prefecture. At the same reform, the municipality Syros-Ermoupoli was created out of the 3 former municipalities:

 * Ermoupoli
 * Ano Syros
 * Poseidonia

The municipality also includes the uninhabited island Gyaros and several other islets. The total area of the municipality is 101.90 km2.

Province
The province of Syros (Επαρχία Σύρου) was one of the provinces of the Cyclades Prefecture. Its territory corresponded with that of the current regional units Syros and Mykonos. It was abolished in 2006.

Religion
As in the rest of Greece, Syros has Eastern Orthodox churches. Metamorphosis is the most important Orthodox church on the island, Kimisis tis Theotokou is also significant and noted for the fact that it hosts a masterpiece by painter El Greco. There is also an equal number of Catholic Church buildings on the island and some entirely Catholic villages; thus, it is one of the most significant places for Catholic Church in Greece. Syros is one of a few places where Catholics and Orthodox share a common date for Easter, which in Syros' case, is the Orthodox date.

The Catholic diocese numbers 9000 worshippers, 21 secular priests and 8 regulars, 7 parishes, 7 churches with a resident priest, 3 without a priest, and 57 chapels. The Capuchins and Jesuits each have an establishment; the Sisters of Charity, 2 houses, one of which is a hospital; the Sisters of St Joseph of the Apparition have a boarding school and St George, a De La Salle Public School.

There is also a single church of the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church which is not part of the diocese but subject to the Byzantine Exarchate of Greece.

Cuisine
Local specialities of the island include:

 * Kaparosalata (salad with capers)
 * Maidanosalata (salad with parsley)
 * Frisoura (appetizer)
 * Delagraciano
 * Ladopita
 * Marathopita
 * Tomatokeftedes (fried tomato balls)
 * Kalamari gemistó (stuffed grilled squid)
 * Sfougato
 * San Michali cheese
 * Loukoumi (dessert)
 * Halvadopita (dessert)
 * Pastelaria (dried figs dessert)

Sports

 * Foinikas Syros V.C.
 * Aris Syros, basketball/volleyball
 * Hellas Syros, football
 * Athletic Club Syros, basketball/football
 * Syros Windsurfing School
 * Komito Watersports

Notable residents

 * Eumaeus, character in the Odyssey
 * Pherecydes (c. 600–550 BC), philosopher
 * Ioannis Andreas Kargas, Catholic bishop of Syros and martyr
 * Michail Melas (1833–1897), Greek politician and merchant, father to Pavlos Melas
 * Demetrius Vikelas (1835–1908), writer and the first president of the International Olympic Committee
 * Emmanuel Roidis (1836–1904), writer and journalist
 * Stamata Revithi (1866–?), the first woman to compete in the Olympic Games and run the Marathon
 * Antonio Gregorio Vuccino (Voutsinos) A.A. (1891–1968), Archbishop of Corfu, Zante and Cefalonia, Greece
 * Anna Kalouta (el) (1918–2010), actress
 * Markos Vamvakaris (1905–1972), musician
 * Rita Boumi-Pappa (1906–1984), poet and translator
 * Anargyros Printezis, titular bishop of Gratianopolis and Apostolic Exarch of the Byzantine Rite Catholics in Greece
 * Olga Broumas (1949–), poet and translator
 * Stelios Mainas (1957–), actor
 * Georgios Printezis (1985–), professional basketball player

title: Syros


text:
Talk:Lithium-ion battery

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2021 and 11 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Babak98.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Specific Power
The specific power is currently listed as ~250-~340 W/kg, according to a 7-year old reference to panasonic's website. This: https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/ur18650rx.pdf spec sheet from panasonic indicates a specific power up to 800 W/kg, based on a 46-gram battery providing 10 amps at 3.7 volts. Higher drain batteries exist, but I can't find a spec sheet as detailed or credible to indicate that.

Current Production
It would be good to see some kind of breakdown as to current production of Li-ion batteries. Numbers made of various types / chemical technology, to get a feel for the way the market is going. Obviously there are varied applications - "horses for courses", but it would be useful to understand who is making what, especially those used in high density energy storage for power applications (rather than for powering portable electronic devices such as phones and toys, which are hobbled by fad physical size/design constraints). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.183.176 (talk • contribs) 29 okt 2017 10:30 (UTC)

Lede polymer
"Handheld electronics mostly use lithium polymer batteries (with a polymer gel as electrolyte)"

There is nothing in the source cited to support this. This whole article and the one on Lithium Polymer spread the myth that "lithium ion in a pouch is lithium polymer". See the introduction of this article for discussion about the widespread myth that commercially used pouch cells are lithium polymer:

http://iaassconference2013.space-safety.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2014/06/JSSE-VOL.-1-NO.-1-JUNE-2014-PERFORMANCE-AND-SAFETY-OF-LITHIUM-ION-POLYMER-POUCH-CELLS.pdf

These polymer electrolyte cells were a specialized thing that never really caught on. Gigs (talk) 23:25, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Charge/Discharge
All electrode combinations have a usual voltage at 3.something V. How does it make sense to top up any battery as high as at 4.05 V when all of them have a nominal voltage UNDER that level? Can anyone find a source for this information? "Top charging is recommended to be initiated when voltage goes below 4.05 V/cell"

From the Article: - Periodic topping charge about once per 500 hours. Top charging is recommended to be initiated when voltage goes below 4.05 V/cell. - In a lithium-ion battery the lithium ions are transported to and from the positive or negative electrodes by oxidizing the transition metal, cobalt (Co), in Li1-xCoO2 from Co3+ to Co4+ during charge, and reducing from Co4+ to Co3+ during discharge. The cobalt electrode reaction is only reversible for x < 0.5 (x in mole units), limiting the depth of discharge allowable. - In the discharged cell x=0, that is the material is LiCoO2. Not the depth of discharge is limited by (x<0.5) but the depth of charge. Overcharge means x>0.5. The discharge limit would be an inequation like x>0. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C9:8F1D:3C86:CEE0:8DEF:59EE:EC46 (talk) 07:54, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

 * I agree and marked the item as dubious. Constant314 (talk) 04:00, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Charge/discharge efficiency in infobox
It strikes me as a bit pointless to list the charge/discharge efficiency (coulombic efficiency) in the infobox. The CE is usually very close to 100% (otherwise the battery wouldn't be viable). Yes, under certain conditions like certain specific cutoff voltages, like some of those used in the quoted source, it can be lower, but the CE is generally used to evaluate individual cells or battery packs to spot potential problems, or when trying to improve performance in R&D - it's not used to compare one type of battery chemistry to another. Listing a CE range for all lithium-ion batteries seems like a not very useful figure. (Now that I think about it, it seems a bit pointless to list the CE for any battery, really, since as far as I know that value is always supposed to hew as close to 100% as possible.) Thoughts? --Tserton (talk) 22:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you confusing energy efficiency with something else? Constant314 (talk) 22:57, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Possibly - I know charge/discharge efficiency as the discharge capacity divided by the immediately preceding charge capacity. That's how it's used in battery-related materials science papers. In that field it's often used synonymously with coulombic efficiency, although I know that word has a more narrow meaning in electrochemistry. I'm not familiar with the term energy efficiency - does that mean something different? --Tserton (talk) 23:04, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I did a quick read of the cited source. It discussed both coulombic efficiency and energy efficiency.  I presume that the 80-90% indicated in the article is energy efficiency.  Maybe not.Constant314 (talk) 23:10, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * After more reading, it seems that the coulombic efficiency of viable batteries can be significantly less than 100%, so the item should probably remain in the info box. But there is still the question of what it means.  I opened a discussion at Template talk:Infobox battery.  We should probably continue the discussion there since it applies to all batteries.  Constant314 (talk) 23:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Price fixing cartel info
I can’t find any mention on Wikipedia of this massive price-fixing cartel story! That was widely covered in the news and courts.

https://www.justice.gov › ... › News Panasonic and Its Subsidiary Sanyo Agree to Plead Guilty in Separate Price-Fixing ...

https://www.reuters.com › article EU fines Japanese rechargeable battery makers over cartel | Reuters

Disappeared? Add/restore? 50.201.195.170 (talk) 01:02, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Added: An antitrust-violating Price-Fixing Cartel among 9 corporate families, including LG Chem, GS Yuasa, Hitachi Maxell, NEC, Panasonic/Sanyo, Samsung, Sony, and Toshiba was found to be rigging battery prices and restricting output between 2000 and 2011. The complaint lays out an overwhelming amount of evidence, e.g. "Defendants took various acts in furtherance of this conspiracy over the course of at least 110 illicit meetings and communications that began in 2000, evolved over time, and lasted until May 2011" Backups at archive.fo.--50.201.195.170 (talk) 03:12, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Samsung batterys - Relocate
I think the part in the intro about the Samsung batteries on planes should be moved to a different section because I feel like the Intro is too bulky and I find it an unnecessary detail to be in its current section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.197.66.2 (talk) 16:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Info about charging stages, "saturation"?
From batteryuniversity.[]com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries Why the link is in global filter? Valery Zapolodov (talk) 13:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Some initialisms need to be defined
In the third paragraph the initialisms NMC and LMR are used, but I don't see a preceding definition. 2A01:4C8:1429:8393:98E8:6ED9:7088:4930 (talk) 11:03, 18 July 2021 (UTC) AJF

Meaningless date column in table of cathode chemistries
In the Cathode section there is a table of cathode chemistries. It has a column titled "Date". Date of what? First proposal for use? First prototype? First commercial production? Anticipated commercial production? Anyway, none of the values have references. I'm inclined to entirely remove the column, after waiting a bit for comments here. Leotohill (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to split out history section

 * Support obviously history will get much longer in future Chidgk1 (talk) 15:46, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * There is an article History of the lithium-ion battery, that I contributed to. The History section, that we have here is a condensed version of that article. It does not need to get longer, but it can be improved. As far as you comment "history will get much longer in future" goes... Until about 3-5 years ago most people working on lithium-ion batteries felt, that "Li-ion are batteries are as good as they can ever be, and there is no room for improvement". Actually ONE improvement (superconcentrated electrolyes) happened since, but all other areas have been stagnant indeed. Walter Tau (talk) 21:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

specific power of "~250 – ~340 W/kg" is outdated
specific power of "~250 – ~340 W/kg" is outdated and the peak value of newer cells can easly reach 2500w/kg continuous e.g. the US18650VTC5A — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DD:2702:8F00:908D:91E7:DA50:B174 (talk) 19:29, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Split
I think just splitting out the biggest section (design?) would be enough Chidgk1 (talk) 13:38, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

 * The problem is that splitting only that section would then mean about 80% of the article was about safety. The article as a whole is too long and really should be converted to summary-style. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:27, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * ok removed split suggestions Chidgk1 (talk) 14:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * These sections are prolix and could make their point in a couple of paragraphs. Wikipedia is not a safety handbook. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:05, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Requested addition

 * Specific text to be added or removed: In the section that begins, "Performance of manufactured batteries has improved over time.":

"Overall, between 1991 and 2018, prices for all types of lithium-ion cells (in dollars per kWh) fell approximately 97%. Over the same time period, energy density more than tripled. Efforts to increase energy density contributed significantly to cost reduction. "

71.232.19.131 (talk) 14:18, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Reason for the change: These details are considerably more up-to-date statistics that describe how the "Performance of manufactured batteries has improved over time." However, they have been reverted by an editor concerned with a potential COI. In order to alleviate any concerns about a conflict of interest, I was thinking someone else could review and implement the changes. I can assure you that I have no stake in proposing these additions. I simply want to improve the article.
 * References supporting change: See above.

 * Agree Battery-cost-learning-curve.png
 * I think this a sensible suggestion and is clearly not WP:REFSPAM. In my opinion, all articles which use the image "Battery-cost-learning-curve.png" (attached) should have the reference to the data on which the graph is based. Unless anyone objects, I will do the edit in a few days time. Regards, Hallucegenia (talk) 15:13, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Pinging and  as previously involved editors in case they wish to contribute to this discussion. Hallucegenia (talk) 08:23, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for looking into this and reviewing the changes. I just wanted to help improve this and related pages by adding up-to-date information and referencing the sources. I only started adding references to other pages when I noticed that copies of the figure had appeared on multiple pages but without the relevant references, which include both the academic article  as well as the OurWorldInData article (https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline). In addition, if you could consider restoring the text additions that were reverted on the related history page (History of the lithium-ion battery), I would appreciate it. 71.232.19.131 (talk) 03:24, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Nobody has objected, so I made the requested edit to this page. If that is allowed to stand, I'll have a go at clearing up the damage on the related pages. Hallucegenia (talk) 10:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

SI Units
Perhaps SI units could be used. Eg for specific energy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.134.121 (talk) 08:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

"LiOn" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect LiOn and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

"LiON" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect LiON and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:46, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

asking for help with formatting figure placing and other minor adjustiments
I added a lot of new infor and a figure to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Lifespan, but I do not have enough experience to place the figure properly within the section. Walter Tau (talk) 13:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Anode and Cathode
Umm... guys, anodes are positive and cathodes are negative! Both the term anode and cathode, and the terms positive and negative, are all scrambled up in this article. Can somebody please fix this? 68.4.194.66 (talk) 18:17, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

 * What exactly do you mean by this? ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 18:32, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is the correct definition: anode = electrode, where the oxidation occurs. cathode = electrode, where the reduction occures:
 * https://study.com/learn/lesson/cathode-anode-half-cell-reactions.html .  Of course, in a rechargeable battery anode and cathode flip, when going from discharge to charge. However, the battery community adopted since the 1800's the convention, that only discharge matters. Thus in ALL batteries anode is negative and cathode is positive.
 * Not everyone likes this defitions, therefore International Society of Electrochemistry now recommends negode for negative electrode and posode for positive electrode. It makes sense to use this defition in wikipedia, but we also need to explain, that many old publication use the old cathode/anode dichotomy. Walter Tau (talk) 21:14, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Semiconductor
This needs to be added: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/03/a-new-twist-on-rechargeable-battery-performance/ Lfstevens (talk) 01:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

693Wh/L claims: wrong by a factor of 4x
the source by which the page takes that value is false: source:https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0674/3651/files/panasonic-ncr18650-ga-spec-sheet.pdf at the cited cell dimensions (R=18.3mm H=65.1mm) and rated capacity (3.3Ah at 3.6V), we get a 11.88Wh cell for 68ml of volume, making this volumetric energy density 173Wh/L, just under a quarter of the given value. This is without taking in the packing efficiency of about 91%, making it closer to 160Wh/L 2001:861:4640:1C80:868:D88:D10D:E7CD (talk) 09:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Li-ion batt improvement over time
The article speaks of the improvement in Li-ion batteries during the 1990s, in life, energy density, power density, etc.

But it seems to skip the subject entirely for 2000 and beyond.

What are the best sources for tracking comparative Li-ion performance over the years? The article would be improved if we would explicate the changes from 2000 thru 2023. Better yet would be to find those forecasting per year changes based on R&D plus recent industry trends on operationalizing new technology into new lines. N2e (talk) 11:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

 * Yes, the "final piece of the puzzle leading to the modern lithium-ion battery" quote seems to imply nothing has happened since 1990. Similar "final piece of the puzzle in the invention of commercial Li-ion battery" language appears in the Jeff Dahn article. I can't find any other references to this 'puzzle'. Navathehut (talk) 15:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Lithium-ion battery


text:
Talk:Conducting

Poor photo choice
That 1941 rehearsal photo of von Karajan is in very bad taste. By 1939 all of the Jewish musicians in Germany were dismissed from the orchestra and replaced with gentiles (some of whom were mediocre musicians). Many of those Jews were murdered or waiting to die in concentration camps. The concert for which this rehearsal transpires is for the Nazi elite; some of whom were complicit in the Holocaust. This is NOT accusing Herbert van Karajan of anything. It's the Nazi era photo that is disturbing. David Cary Hart (talk) 00:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Duple/Double
Duple/Double: sorry, my ignorance. -- Viajero 09:16 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * No problem - there should probably be a note explaining this on time signature if there isn't already. I see about putting one in there later tonight. --Camembert

Disambiguate from electricity?
Do we need to disambiguate this from conducting electricity? Rmhermen 13:23 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * As far as I can see, all the pages which link to this article are looking for information on the musical kind of conducting, so I would say not. I wouldn't object to this being moved to conducting (music), but I don't think there's a need for it. --Camembert

 * It seems that it should Conductivity if it were about electricity. "Conducting" isn't really the word used there. ("Conductor" also applies to electricity, but not as directly.) - Rainwarrior 16:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Conducting deaths
I'm intrigued by the information regarding Lully's conducting misadventure -- are there any other known cases of "fatal conducting"? TrbleClef 23:58, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Felix Mottl died during a performance of Tristan, and it happened to another person (at the same point in the music) many years later. - Rainwarrior 16:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It also happened often that conductors faint of fatigue on stage, particulary in long operas. (I study conducting, and, as far as I know, it is a widly respected and not uncommon dream of conductors to die on stage, after conducting the last note, although younger ones, like me, say that it would be kinder to die the moment you left the stage and entered your dressing room.)--Mary C. 18:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Mariss Jansons had a heart attack on the podium, but has since recovered (fortunately). See the article for details, which also states that his father did die whilst conducting.  David Underdown 14:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Didn't Toscanini die from some kind of muscle injury sustained while conducting? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Calaf (talk • contribs) 07:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

I don't think so. Also, we can't say "It also happened often that conductors faint of fatigue on stage, particulary in long operas." In decades of conducting I have never seen or heard of this happening. Gingermint (talk) 05:17, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Downbeats/Upbeats
I'm a student in my school band, and we've always learned the downbeat to be the first "half" of the note and the upbeat to be the second "half" For example, if we're in 4/4 time there are four upbeats, four downbeats. Has anyone else taught this way? If so should the article be changed to reflect this?Mutton 12:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

 * If every beat is a dowbeat, what meaning would the word have? The downbeat is the first beat of the measure. Notes between beats are "off beat", not "up beat". - Rainwarrior 16:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

 * It's the first half of the quarter note that would be the downbeat of all four. Example, in 4/4 you could play an Eigth Note on the downbeats, so you would play four eigthnotes in one measure on the first half of each beat. Mutton 22:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I should have said this differently. What I mean is, the usage you speak of I have not seen in any literature or in any of my training in conducting or music in general. Here's a link to dictionary.com's downbeat and upbeat, which are accurate to the only usage I've ever seen of downbeat. As I've said, "downbeat" is the first beat of a measure. "Upbeats" are the other beats in the measure. "Off beats", or "syncopated" rhythms are those that occur between beats (ie. on a half of a beat). - Rainwarrior 03:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I guess I've been mistaken then. Thanks for straightening that out for me. Mutton 23:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

 * It's good that you asked the question. (You might want to follow up and ask your teacher about it as well.) - Rainwarrior 05:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, thinking about it, Mutton is completely correct. Take a standard 4/4 pattern, and technically, each beginning eighth note is literally a "downward-beating" hand motion to the ictus, and the second eighth duration of each beat is an upward-beating motion coming out of the ictus.  So yes, each first eight note of each beat is literally a down beat (but not a downbeat, which refers to the first beat of a measure).  Anyway, I stopped using Wiki completely ever since it became a haven for censorship and re-writing history and science according to the "editors".  I refuse to ever read Wiki now except since I am a conductor, I was curious to see how badly their entry was on the subject.  It's downright god-awful, as I expected. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.125.229.84 (talk) 05:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

POV tag
This article really makes me cringe. A very large percentage of everything after the history section violates WP:NPOV, WP:V, and WP:OR. I hope we can clean up this very important topic. MarkBuckles (talk) 05:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

-Really? I don't see how it does. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.177.28.141 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

 * It completely omits Hans von Bülow, and basically anyone who was ever only a conductor and not also a composer. Other than that (which is a glaring problem, but I don't have the references onhand to fix it right now), it seems good to me. But yeah, for the future, Mark Buckles, please leave specific comments, general statements like "there is a problem with this article" are rather confusing. - Rainwarrior 18:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Okeydoke. Here you go:

Violates NPOV, i.e. is subjective

 * "the only golden rule of conducting technique is that it should be clear and easy to follow." Golden-rule of conducting? Subjective.
 * "An understanding of the three basic elements of musical expression (tempo, dynamics and style) makes any conductor capable of conveying a basic interpretation of the music to the performers." Just not true. Plenty of conductors understand these and are unable to convey them. Plus, since when is style one of the three basic elements of musical expression - this is a subjective list?
 * "There is a particular distinction between orchestral conducting and choral conducting." As a choral conductor just returning from conducting an orchestra, I reject this claim.
 * "Orchestral conductors typically use a baton (though not always: this is up to the conductor's personal preference), and giving a clear beat to the players is central. Choral conductors rarely use a baton, and although the beat is an important part of choral conducting, conductors tend to concentrate on musical expression and shape, making their movements appear more abstract." These are broad stereotypes that are really not true.
 * "The two most important movements are the downbeat, which indicates the first beat of the bar, and the upbeat," not necessarily. They could be any important beat. What if the piece starts on beat 3? This just doesn't make sense to me.
 * "the conductor's principal responsibility is to provide a preparation which forecasts with certainty the exact moment of the coming ictus" this is a responsibility. Some say the principal responability is to set the tempo, or to listen, or any number of things.
 * "To encourage a particular accelerando or rallentando, a conductor may introduce beat subdivisions." You'd never subdivide for an accelerando. That's just wrong.
 * "Dynamics are indicated in two main ways." Many famous conductors use neither of these methods, though I rather agree with the ones listed.
 * "The former, changing the size of movements, often results in unintended tempo changes as well, that is, larger movements tend to slow down the tempo." This is a mostly problem with amateur conductors who have not perfected their technique and probably shouldn't be listed as something that often happens in general.
 * "Loud dynamics would then correspond to strained muscles and rigid movements, while soft dynamics correspond to relaxed hands and soft movements." Often this may have more to do with articulation than dynamics.
 * "In choral conducting, wiggling the fingers of the right hand is also an accepted signal for 'sing much more quietly'." Accepted signal? I disagree.
 * "Cueing is done either by pointing at the section at the appropriate time" This is quite inaccurate. Proper cueing necessitates engaging the players well before their entry and executing a clear preparation in the appropriate character, all while maintaining eye contact. Of course, not everyone does this, but merely pointing at a section has little effect.
 * "While most entries only require eye contact," this article should not tell the reader what the music requires of the conducting gesture - this is a very contentious issue.
 * "Phrasing is indicated by wide overhead arcs or by a smooth hand motion either forwards or side-to-side" How about may be indicated.
 * "Staccato and legato can be differentiated by more or less 'spiky' movements." Spikey? Can we find a better word?
 * "A good conductor aims to maintain eye contact with the ensemble as much as possible, encouraging eye contact in return and increasing the general dialogue between players/singers and conductor. " Okay, I totally agree, but this article should not tell the reader what a good conductor aims to do.
 * "Facial expressions are also important; all performers, but especially less experienced ones, respond well to encouraging expressions. " Totallly subjective.
 * "The conducter also has to not grip the cork of the baton really tight because this gives them muscle tension that limates hand movement." There are so many ways to hold the baton. We can list some of them, but we shouldn't say what is right.

Hey, there's tons of good information in this article and I thank its contributors for that! There's just some that needs to be written in a more encyclopedic and neutral manner. If there's something you disagree with, let me know and let's figure out a way to say what needs to be said in a way that works for everybody. Best, MarkBuckles (talk) 17:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

 * This is a good list. I agree fully with all of these, except those about choral conducting, which I sort of half agree with. There are definitely different trends in choral conducting versus orchestral conducting, i.e. the use of hands/baton, sometimes gesturing with the rhythm of the piece rather than even beats (as choral music is often homorhythmic), etc. That said, there is more far more overlap than division between these two types of conducting, and the wording needs to reflect this. The points about "more abstract motions" and such probably refer to the rhythmic thing I mentioned, but vague wording like that makes the statement useless. "Wiggling fingers signify quiet" should be removed, as it is untrue. I'll leave it to you, MarkBuckles, to make the changes. - Rainwarrior 17:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Careful with deeming items untrue. I have worked with many choral conductors who use that exact indication for piano. Calaf 07:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

An extremely clear point must be made that choral conductors use a completely different language (and some may say nuance) of gesture based on the fact that choral conductors are required to *show* the sound they want. The human voice is the only instrument that is not "man-made" per se and the scope of the choral conductor also includes "teaching" singers how to produce the sound the conductor requests. By contrast, an orchestral conductor is standing in front of a group of people who already know how to play their instruments and have been taught how to achieve any effect through technique. The vocal standard is not so cut and dry, and the responsibilities of the choral conductor (while to the superficial eye manages fewer people and/or "events") is responsible for showing much greater detail by nature of the instruments involved. Such detail is regularly unnecessary for an orchestral conductor to show because of both delegation and the simple fact that it can all be mentioned as an aside in rehearsal. Singers regularly rely upon the gesture to help them produce the requested sound, while more often instrumentalists are able to create that sound on their own -- in fact showing TOO much in the gesture with instrumentalists can be both patronizing and confusing, as it is often unclear, based on the sheer number or parts, who that particular gesture is meant for without prior rehearsal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashuduanna (talk • contribs) 08:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

 * As a professional conductor and orchestral musician who also works with choirs, I can assert that the above is nonsense. The issue is the level of sophistication of the members of the ensemble, not whether they sing or play instruments.  It is true that professional orchestra musicians do not need technical instruction from the podium, but then neither do professional singers.  An orchestral conductor _can_ assist, through gesture and other body language, with technical matters for non-professional players, provided that those players have been trained to respond to a conductor and have the technical competence to do what is asked.  Furthermore, the facial expressions and simple presence of a first-rate conductor can provide an explicit guide to the players about what kind of sound to make -- watch Bernard Haitink face-on, for example.  Lastly, whether an orchestra conductor is unclear is a function of his or her technique, preparation, and concentration, not of whether "too much" information is being provided.  No professional instrumentalist will ever complain about a conductor showing too much information, so long as the information is clear and does not distract from the performers' tasks.  76.90.232.8 (talk) 05:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Revision
I've had a go at improving some of these points and have removed the POV tag. I feel some of the sections still need to be made clearer for the non-specialist (e.g. subdivsion), but I feel much better about the general content and tone of the article. If I've done anything contentious, please let me know and let's find a way to make it work. MarkBuckles (talk) 17:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Baton Grip
''The grip of the baton is a contentious issue that varies from conductor to conductor. Despite a wide variety of styles, a number of standard conventions have developed.''

Anybody care to expand that? :) The externally linked article has a very good description of good conductor grip. I understand why the sentence is so very vague (as to limit POV bias), but more info is always nice, don't you think?

A number of standard conventions have developed... which are...? =o) Kareeser|Talk! 05:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this talk of "standard conventions" having "developed" is fiction. Gingermint (talk) 05:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Popular ignorance
I'd like to see a bit about how the general public, as part of their ignorance of "classical music", has no idea what conductors do; it's a staple of low-grade stand-up comedy that "the guy just stands there waving his arms while the musicians do all the work". There was a Saturday Night Live sketch about a "Conductors Club", where a bunch of guys met in somebody's living room, compared batons, and mimed vigorously while Beethoven's 5th was on the record player. Duh-di-di-DUuh! Duh-di-di-DUUUuhh!! jnestorius(talk) 17:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I would not like to see this section created. It's trite and unnecessary.--Jeff 17:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Trite" I can't agree with; I suspect there might be countries (Germany? Russia? Japan?) where such boorish joking is inconceivable, so that people from there would find mention of it in this article insightful. See Common knowledge and State the obvious. "Unneccessary"  might be right, but to convince me would require a more elaborate argument. Feel free not to bother, of course; it was just a suggestion. jnestorius(talk) 18:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say most people don't really know what building inspectors do, or astronomers ("ha ha, all they do is drink beer and look at the sky"), or state legislators. Conductors aren't particularly distinctive in this regard. In fact, it's easy to think of professions which are much less known: quality control engineers, scientific lab assistants, warehouse managers. I don't think it's necessary in an encyclopedia article to gauge how well-known the information presented is to the general public. —Wahoofive (talk) 18:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's a fair point. I have heard what's-that-all-about jokes about quantity surveying, for example.  While there may be space in Wikipedia for information about such humour, I concede this is not the place. jnestorius(talk) 22:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I for one would welcome such a section. The reason I am here reading this article is just because I am ignorant of the conductors role. I understand the need of a conductor in leading the preparations and rehearsals for a concert, but while actually performing, I would guess the musicians knows what to do, either by heart or by the notes that they all have in front of them. Thus, an explanation as to what the conductor actually contributes when a piece is performed live would be welcomed. Thanks :-) 83.254.83.215 (talk) 10:16, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Beat Pattern Images
Having the diagrams of beat patterns on the page seems to imply that they are the standard way of conducting; there is a variety of styles that disagree with this. For example, the majority of my teachers have placed all the beats in the center. Maybe it should be noted that the patterns shown are from a specific style? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.218.223.167 (talk) 21:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

These beat patterns are just a general guide to gesture which is mutually understood by both instrumentalists and singers. It is simply a guide and should be deviated from based on required interpretation and effect. You may liken these patterns to a basic dress pattern; Each pattern must be modified to suit the size and silhouette of each particular person (or sonic event, in this case), and deviation from the standards is a gesture in itself to create a desired effect. The pattern a conductor chooses is absolutely inconsequential as long as the gesture communicates his interpretation. This is most often accomplished through rehearsal. Conductors will simply say "I'm beating two here." It is up to the individual performer to in turn use that as a guide to keep time with the rest of the group and guide his own interpretation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashuduanna (talk • contribs) 09:00, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I think it would be good if we could include the patterns (both German and French) for 7 and the french for 6! :)--Karljoos (talk) 19:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The text says beat patterns for the commonest meters are shown, but none is shown for 4/4. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.166.197 (talk) 04:26, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

"Maestro"
In Italian literally means master. Although "teacher" is a common usage, perhaps Master is a better translation for this page? Or that alternate meaning ought to be mentioned? Calaf 07:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Training
It would be fun if someone could add how to become a conductor. Jack Daw 22:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

There isn't a standard way. Some people study at college or university, but with a few exceptions that sort of training has not provided us with great conductors. Some fall into the business, others conduct as an extension of their composing activities and some... well, there are a lot of different ways. Gingermint (talk) 05:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Paris Opera
The Palais Garnier is much after Lully's time and I've removed it; he hit himself in a church anyway. If it was meant that the Opera using a large baton through the mid 19c, this should be documented as well as clarified. Sparafucil 12:19, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

What's the purpose of conductors?
Hi,

in all the orchestra performances I've seen, the players look at their score sheet and not the conductor 99% of the time. So, what's the purpose of the conductor?

--Murmur 81.208.83.232 12:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 * As a professional violinist, let me tell you that either you weren't looking closely enough, or the alignment was such that the musicians could see the conductor out of the corner of their eyes. Not watching the conductor will get you fired. Period.

MatthieuV (talk) 02:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The score is simply a list of instructions. How those instructions are implemented is the realm of the conductor. It's sort of like having a map with no key, and you need the help of someone to interpret those markings so you can make sense of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashuduanna (talk • contribs) 09:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the long List of conductors ?
Where is List of conductors ? I worked on that page a lot. There were well over a thousand names on the list. Now it doesn't come up on "go" or "search" and is in red instead of blue. In general, how does one find a lost article? Abstrator 22:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I find it disturbing that this list has disappeared. Over a period of time, I added many names to the list, and I regularly checked all other additions to be sure they were valid.  The overwhelming majority of the names were linked to articles, the rest were waiting for articles to be written.  Who would revove this list, and how could anyone get away with it?  Why is there no evidence that the list ever existed?  I am seriously considering bailing on Wikipedia if I can expect this kind of thing to happen.  Abstrator 216.19.218.34 21:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

 * It was deleted via AfD nomination. See here.  The Wayback Machine has a copy from March located here. --Mperry 00:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I have now read the debate over the deletion, which I was unaware of at the time. I strongly disagree with the decision and want to contest it. Having read policy and deletion review pages, I'm still not sure where I'm supposed to post my views. For now, I will post them here:

1) I strongly recommend looking at that puny debate and noting the weak, often flip, reasoning offered to justify discarding the long work of many editors.  It hardly seems that the detractors understood what they were looking at.

2) One of the objections was that it supposedly duplicated Category:Conductors. In reality, the deleted list was far more extensive, and the information was not transferred to Category:Conductors before being deleted.  How extraordinarily irresponsible!  Maybe the list should be incorporated in the category.  Or maybe it is worthy of being improved as an article.  Not a reason to delete entirely.

3) Someone objected that the list included names of amateur conductors, and cited one example. I doubt there were many, but any such names could be removed rather than deleting the whole list.  I, for one, checked a lot of names for their validity on various counts.  This was a pseudo-argument.

4) Someone quoted from the introduction, "Inclusion on this list does not necessariy suggest conducting was their primary occupation or talent." arguing that this makes the list "hopelessly broad". I was the one who added that statement, with the intention to point out that some conductors are better known for another occupation or talent, such as composer or musician.

For example: Felix Mendelssohn and Pierre Boulez are better known as composers, but also as noted conductors. Daniel Barenboim and Vladimir Ashkenazy are known both as conductors and pianists. That is what is documented on the list. Perhaps this could be pointed out better in the statement, but this is not a reason to delete the list.

5) The lack of sources was mentioned. Perhaps someone would suggest how to reference each name on the list.  Is that done for all lists on Wikipedia?  Since most of the names are linked to articles, the articles justify those names, and work should be done to source articles that need it.  And:

6) Someone objected that there were many names in the red. There's a lot of red all over Wikipedia. The solution is to write articles to link, not to delete valid valuable lists. Perhaps some would prefer to put some names into black, but I challenge anyone to find many invalid names on that list, and if you do, maybe you should delete them, but with great care. One good way to check is to Google (for example) "Stephen Gunzenhauser" conductor.   I checked a vast number and only once in a while found a questionable one.  I wrote articles for a bunch of them.

7) Some complained that the article is "difficult to maintain". I rather doubt the complainers were the ones maintaining it.  I periodically checked new additions made by others.  Other than that, suggesting improvements (and giving them time) or leaving it as it is would be called for, not simply deleting the valuable work already done.

8) Here's a beauty: Someone complained that it wasn't "necessary to have an article listing conductors, their orchestras, their dates of birth and death, etc., since there's nothing to be gained by comparing one to another."  Sounds as if this person just isn't interested in the subject.  I suggest that adding information on orchestras, dates, etc. would be a good project for Wikipedia.  Rather than deleting the article, add to it and reformat it for best effect.

9) Someone's contribution to the debate was to write: "Can you believe the author forgot Copper?" Is this debator one of the people who voted?  First of all, how could a serious Wikipedian refer to "the author", when it was written by many?  Could someone tell me about this "Copper"?  Yes, I did forget that one.

10) I wonder why a six month old version was the one chosen to archive at The Wayback Machine here. There were improvements made between March and the September deletion.  There is a somewhat later version thanks to Answers.com . See: .  Hopefully, there is still copy of the latest at Wikipedia, but if someone had managed to excise it completely, we can work form the Answers.com version when we reinstate the list.    Abstrator 00:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

 * You might want to keep a copy of the page from Answers.com. When they next syncronize with Wikipedia that article will disappear since it doesn't exist here.  The wayback machine online indexes pages occasionally and I think even then only updates if it feels there is significant change. --Mperry 02:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The best avenue is Deletion review, articles are not (usually) completely deleted, rather they are moved to different database tables which cannot be seen by "ordinary" users. Even if the page is not re-instated via deletion review, an administrator may be willing to restore a copy to your user space, and you could then verify that all names are included in the relevant category.  David Underdown 11:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

What does a Conductor do
I'm sorry but this section is being written as a personal essay, and is not in an encyclopaedic tone, much also duplicates material in teh existing "Technique" section. David Underdown (talk) 10:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments. Wikipedia is a user-edited encylopedia. Anyone can edit. Articles and sections often improve over time, as people edit the writing, find references and so on. In time this section will be improved. OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 11:46, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The Baton: Necessity or Obstacle?
This mentioned source is not accessible. Does anybody have any other proof that those conductors did not use the baton? Thanks --Biopresto (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Kapellmeister
I deleted the sentence: "Kapellmeister simply refers to the music director of a church or chapel (Kapell)." In German, the term Kapelle (sic!) is used for both a small church and a musical ensemble. Both meanings have the same roots, but Kapellmeister was only used from the 16th century on when Kapelle could designate a secular, e.g. court orchestra as well as a church ensemble.

--Pjt56 (talk) 15:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Marco Balderi
Help! If there are any bored editors looking for a project, I rescued this article from oblivion... but I do not have the proper musical background to finish it. If anyone has expertise here, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Oliver  Twisted (Talk) (Stuff) 09:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Downbeats are often upbeats
While textbooks and teachers say that the first beat of a measure should be a downbeat, in practice many conductors beat "up" on the first beat - although not necessarily all the time. If you watch Zubin Mehta or film of Leonard Bernstein you'll see the effect I'm talking about. Many people will swear that no real conductor would ever do this, but if you watch carefully you'll see that it's very common. In fact, one choral conductor who usually conducts on the downbeat complained that whenever he conducted an orchestra they'd come in late, effectively forcing him to conduct on the upbeat. To see the kind of thing I'm talking about have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41-f2o-1W4A If you tap along with the beat you'll see that Mehta's baton is up on the beat rather than down. My guess is that conductors do this because a beat up is more visible to a large group than a beat down. I know this complicates the explanation of baton movements, but it's the real world of conducting, not just something out of a textbook. I think some comment in the article about this reality would be in order. I can't give any specific reference for this, it's just something you can observe with your own eyes. Gerry246 (talk) 04:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This is true, although I don't think the word downbeat actually refers to the conductor's gesture. Furthermore, some orchestra conductors insist on beating time ahead of the orchestra -- it isn't that hard to follow once you get used to it. —Wahoofive (talk) 05:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but I hate when conductors do this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.10.238.212 (talk) 06:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Every great conductor conducts "ahead" of the beat and on the "upbeat". However these descriptions of what is happening are a bit misleading. The problem is the idea of an ictus.  There is really no such thing as an ictus in reality.  There are only downward and upward motions of the arm and wrist.  It is not true that great conductors really conduct "ahead" as in just slightly ahead of the beat. What they are doing is showing a subdivision.  The downward motion is the "and" and the upward motion is where the beat actually occurs.  This works best because you can only influence what musicians play by what they see before they play (the downward motion corresponding with the subdivisions). This is hard to explain but if you watch a video of any great conductor you will see this and you will NOT see the sharp "ictus" on the beat.
 * That last comment is pretty much nonsense, but I also wanted to remind everyone that you can't rely on YouTube videos (or any video) to determine the relationship between gesture and sound, because the synchronization between sound and music in video recordings is not always exact. —Wahoofive (talk) 02:47, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Some years ago a visiting professor of choral music from the U.S.A. started his rehearsal with a large group of choristers here in Sydney by warning that he didn't want to confuse people, but he would be conducting "up" on the downbeat. He said this helped to make the music "lighter, and more lively". Here's a good example of a conductor beating up on the downbeat. In the video you'll see Mehta often snapping his baton up in a very sharp "ictus" on the first beat of the bar (not all the time though). And it's not the case that sound and picture are out of sync, because you just have to watch the instrumentalists' movements to see sound is in time with picture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpUJ4-qqV-I Or watch Simon Rattle here, with the Berlin Philharmonic to see more of what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRh7r-ttAUA Gerry246 (talk) 06:09, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

In my years of experience in various orchestras, I can say that most conductors say that their downbeat is at the bottom of the stroke, but it's actually at the top. If you actually play the downbeat when the baton is at the bottom, they will accuse you of playing ahead of the beat. 68.196.1.236 (talk) 17:59, 13 April 2021 (UTC)captcrisis

Representative conductors
The list of conductors offered in the "history" paragraph is bizarre. I don't think anyone would consider Boulez to be one of the most important conductors of his era, and certainly not Harnoncourt. Where are Furtwaengler, Karajan, Szell, Solti? It seems silly to offer a hunt-and-peck list of five or six conductors of wildly varying stature without articulating why they were selected for mention above all others. 76.90.232.8 (talk) 05:26, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Those names were preceded by "Amongst prominent conductors who did not or do not use a baton are ...". --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   06:10, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Gender ratio for orchestra conductors?
I know there are many more male conductors than female, especially for orchetras and symphonies. Anybody know the woman:man ratio? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexir11 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Since some belong to one union while others belong to another and still others who are semi-professional or amateur belong to no union or organization with easily discoverable statistics... it would be almost impossible to tell. 75.48.3.183 (talk) 01:30, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

 * In composition the ratio is about one woman for every nine men. It's not much different in conducting: . Hyacinth (talk) 02:41, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

USA vs Europe
Nice to know classical orchestral music under conductors is still alive and well in the USA. I wonder what happened to it in Europe after the death of Furtwangler? Apart from someone called Karajan who seems to have conducted in Berlin, it looks as if it died the death. Delahays (talk) 17:44, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Category
category:conductors. Daft. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to see an article on Conductors
There isn't one, at present -- just on the technique of conducting.

What do conductors do? Furtwangler spoke to Albert Speer toward the end of World War II, saying "What will become of my orchestra? I'm responsible for them." Speer arranged it so that the musicians would not be drafted.

This anecdote (reported by Speer) reveals that in some contexts conductors have administrative, musical, or even personal responsibilities, far beyond the technique of "conducting". 69.119.169.59 (talk) 02:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)captcrisis

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://musiced.about.com/od/musiccareer1/p/theconductor.htm. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Alfietucker (talk) 19:40, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Top Photo - Baton, or no baton?

It is my opinion that the top photo of the article should include a baton. What are your views? Arfæst! 23:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree. Here are my candidates, in order of preference, all paintings by Robert Sterl: 1. Arthur Nikisch conducting at the Gewandhaus in Leipzig; 2. Ernst von Schuch conducting Rosenkavalier; 3. Schuch (1914). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, personally I agree - the photo of baton would fit the page well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jungles13 (talk • contribs) 10:56, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Why should the top photo have a baton? Hyacinth (talk) 02:37, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

 * I only came here because SuggestBot thought I might find the article interesting to work with and I know this debate is a bit stale by now. Nevertheless, I think the current photo is good. It is great when the photo does not follow the stereotype image that most people have about the subject, but rather widens the perspective in a thought-provoking manner while still staying absolutely true the the subject of the article. Other good examples of such image choices are Fishing, Semper fidelis and House, none of the main pics in those articles are stereotypic. It might not be out of place to have a pic of a woman conducting without a baton as main pic. Cheers, w.carter -Talk  12:22, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Redundancy re: women and Black conductors
It's definitely interesting to read about women conductors and black conductors, but why does it have to be in the article twice (once in the history section, once in a section of its own)? This makes the article unbalanced. Roughly one fourth of the entire article currently deals with this matter. I see the "neutrality" tag has recently been put up there, but nobody has bothered to give an explanation here. --84.190.92.41 (talk) 16:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Nine months later, there is still a redundant and unbalanced paragraph at Conducting, and worse, a wholly duplicated section at Conducting. That section is much better covered at Women in music and should be removed here, bar the main article cross-reference. Several editors have attempted to improve this article by removing that duplication, but they have been reverted. I suggest to return the article to or similar. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:32, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Indeed the large sections on women and minority conductors, in contrast to none about the vast majority group of conductors renders this article totally out of balance. They do not belong here.−Woodstone (talk) 13:33, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, Thank you for your ideas on improving the article. I am happy to discuss these ideas with everyone. I added the sections on women and conducting and Blacks and conducting due to Wikipedia-wide issues that have been identified by external observers and within the Wikipedia editors community on Gender bias on Wikipedia and Racial bias on Wikipedia. This is not just some individual/personal concern of mine. The article on gender bias says that the "nature and quantity of its content is biased" against content about women "due to the fact that a dominant majority of Wikipedia editors are male. It is among the most frequent criticisms of Wikipedia". I think that the article should have some general quotes from reliable sources that give readers a sense of the statistics on women and Black conductors. As well, since reliable sources state that there has been discrimination against women and Black conductors, I think the article should at least mention this in one sentence. If there are contrary views (i.e., that there has not been discrimination), these could also get space, as per WP:NPOV. Thanks OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 11:44, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I disagree that the sections you added were required. The article did already mention the under-representation of women/Mexicans/blacks and referred to Women conductors and Black conductors twice. Further, your cut/paste edits introduced citation errors (see overleaf and below). Copy/paste from other articles only muddies the treatment of the subject and makes further development more difficult. I suggest to remove the redundant material. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:46, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Possible to link German article on conducting pattern to Technique section in this article?
The German Wiki carries a separate article ("Schlagfigur", see URL below) on technique (conducting pattern) that I think should ideally crosslink to the "Technique" section of this article. Is that possible?

Here is the URL to German-language article: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlagfigur

94.223.163.195 (talk) 09:41, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The subject is covered in this article at Conducting. I don't think it would be generally helpful to include an inline link to the German article (which, IMO, doesn't add much). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:46, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Conducting
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Conducting's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "theguardian.com": From Black conductors: Higgins, Charlotte, "Black conductor fears he will remain exception", The Guardian, 10 August 2004. From Women in music:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 12:21, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Miguel Graça Moura & Jesús López-Cobos: Two Iberian Conductors
Miguel da Graça Moura (Porto, 1947) is a Portuguese conductor and Jesús López Cobos (born 25 February 1940) is a Spanish conductor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.2.5.53 (talk) 19:33, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Are conductors also musicians?
I can't find anything on that. Does a conductor need to know how to play (all? most?) instruments (violin, piano, wind brass etc.) or does he just have a PhD in stick waving? Try to do a search, there's no returns. Why would a guy get all the glory when he does pretty much nothing? (I mean from what I read here, he just tells the violins when to start playing in relation to the trumpets but it seems they should know that already and the job is utterly useless and probably overpaid!) And how does he get his training? What does his sheet say? Does he even read music? I mean the musicians already have notes such as "staccato" or "crescendo" to tell them how to play, fast, slow, increasing the tempo, fade away etc. So, again: does a conductor need to know how to play any instrument or anyone with a musical ear off the streets can climb that podium and start waving a twig? Just tired of those glorifying such a position that, for all accounts and purposes, appears to be completely useless. Yet they clap for him instead of the musicians. (Or, rather, the guy turns and bows at the end, as if he is taking all the glory, while the musicians remain seated. I say he should instead step down from the podium so the audience has a clear view on the musicians, who ought to rise and bow.) Prove me wrong.108.178.137.210 (talk) 19:38, 31 January 2021 (UTC)Signed my post
 * Most conductors do play an instrument, or several, although there's no formal rule requiring them to. Most conductors of choral ensembles are also singers. Orchestras do usually stand to acknowledge applause, although they don't usually bow. I'm not sure of the point of your rant about their worth, though. Put it on Facebook. —Wahoofive (talk) 03:57, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

music
it is a form of musical pieces played together to form sound vibrations 102.134.175.220 (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Classic and Romantic Music History
— Assignment last updated by Sanna Pederson Eroica sonata (talk) 01:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Conducting


text:
Ilta-Sanomat

is one of Finland's two prominent tabloid size evening newspapers and the second largest paper in the country. Its counterpart and biggest rival is Iltalehti.

According to the National Media Research done in 2019 Ilta-Sanomat is also the biggest digital media in Finland and reaches about 2,5 million Finns.

Johanna Lahti has been the editor-in-chief of Ilta-Sanomat since November 2019, after the previous editor-in-chief Tapio Sadeoja retired after 38 years in office.

History and profile
The paper was established in 1932 as afternoon edition of Helsingin Sanomat. In 1949 it became a separate newspaper and was named Ilta-Sanomat.

Its sister paper is Helsingin Sanomat and both papers are part of Sanoma. Ilta-Sanomat is published in tabloid format six times per week. The paper has an independent political stance.

Circulation
The circulation of Ilta-Sanomat was 212,854 copies in 1993, making it the second largest newspaper in Finland after its sister paper Helsingin Sanomat. In the period of 1995-1996 the paper had a circulation of 213,600 copies.

Ilta-Sanomat had a circulation of 215,000 copies in 2000. Its circulation was 218,829 copies in 2001, making it the second most read paper in the country. In 2002 it had a circulation of 214,610 copies on weekdays and 243,443 copies in weekends. It was again the second best selling newspaper with a circulation of 205,000 copies in 2003. Next year the circulation of the paper was down to 201,000 copies.

The paper had a circulation of 195,673 copies in 2005, and of 186,462 copies in 2006. Its circulation was 176,531 copies in 2007. The circulation of Ilta-Sanomat was 161,615 copies in 2008 and 152,948 copies in 2009. It was 150,351 copies in 2010 and 143,321 copies in 2011.

In 2010 the online version of Ilta-Sanomat was the second most visited website in Finland in 2010 and was visited by 1,823,956 people per week.

Editors-in-chief

 * Johanna Lahti 2019–
 * Reijo Ruokanen ?–2010
 * Tapio Sadeoja 2007–2019
 * Hannu Savola 2006–2007
 * Antti-Pekka Pietilä 2003–2006
 * Vesa-Pekka Koljonen 1984–2003
 * Martti Huhtamäki 1974–1983
 * Olavi Aarrejärvi 1966–1973
 * Heikki Tikkanen 1961–1966
 * Teo Mertanen 1956–1961
 * Eero Petäjäniemi 1949–1956
 * Yrjö Niiniluoto 1938–1949 (also the editor-in-chief Helsingin Sanomat)
 * Eljas Erkko 1932–1938 (also the editor-in-chief Helsingin Sanomat)

title: Ilta-Sanomat


text:
User:Pedant17

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Combat engineer

A combat engineer (also called pioneer or sapper) is a type of soldier who performs military engineering tasks in support of land forces combat operations. Combat engineers perform a variety of military engineering, tunnel and mine warfare tasks, as well as construction and demolition duties in and out of combat zones.

Combat engineers facilitate the mobility of friendly forces while impeding that of the enemy. They also work to assure the survivability of friendly forces, building fighting positions, fortifications, and roads. They conduct demolition missions and clear minefields manually or through use of specialized vehicles. Common combat engineer missions include construction and breaching of trenches, tank traps and other obstacles and fortifications; obstacle emplacement and bunker construction; route clearance and reconnaissance; bridge and road construction or destruction; emplacement and clearance of land mines; and combined arms breaching. Typically, combat engineers are also trained in infantry tactics and, when required, serve as provisional infantry.

Combat engineer organization
Combat engineers play a key role in all armed forces of the world. They are invariably found closely integrated into the force structure of divisions, combat brigades, and smaller fighting units.

Combat support formations
In many countries, combat engineers provide combat support members of a broader military engineering corps or branch. Other nations have distinct combat engineering corps or branches; they are separate from other types of military engineers. The Danish military engineers' corps, for example, is almost entirely organized into one regiment of combat engineers, simply named Ingeniørregimentet ("The Engineering Regiment").

Combat arms formations
Combat engineer battalions are usually a part of a brigade combat team. During the War in Afghanistan and the 2003–2011 Iraq War, the U.S. Army tasked its combat engineers with route clearance missions designed to counter rising threats of improvised explosive devices (IEDs). To increase the effectiveness of these units, EOD and mechanic teams were typically embedded with the combat engineer platoon. Due to rising IED threats, the U.S. Army sends some combat engineers to complete Explosive Ordnance Clearance Agent training.

Special operations units
Individual combat engineers are often assigned as a component of both covert and overt direct action special operations teams. For example, the active duty US Army Special Forces and its two reserve components, the 19th SFG and 20th SFG of the US Army National Guard, employ combat engineer sergeants designated by MOS 18C. A Green Berets Operational Detachment Alpha, more commonly known as an "A-Team", typically consists of 12 men, two of whom are combat engineer sergeants.

Another example is the israeli Yahalom unit, which is a special operations engineering unit, that possess the abilities of sabotage, demolition of explosives and tunnel warfare.

Terminology
A general combat engineer is often called a pioneer or sapper, terms derived respectively from the French and British armies. In some armies, pioneer and sapper indicate specific military ranks and levels of combat engineers, who work under fire in all seasons and may be allocated to different corps, as they were in the former Soviet Army, or they may be organized in the same corps. Geomatics (surveying and cartography) is another area of military engineering but is often performed by the combat engineers of some nations and in other cases is a separate responsibility, as was formerly the case in the Australian Army. While the officers of a combat engineer unit may be professionally certified civil or mechanical engineers, the non-commissioned members are generally not.

Sapper
In the British, Indian, Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand armies, a sapper is a soldier who has specialized combat engineer training. The term "sapper" in the U.S. Army refers to a person who either possesses the combat engineer military occupational specialty or who has graduated from the Sapper Leader Course, more commonly called "Sapper School." In Sapper School, volunteers from the ranks of combat engineers and other military occupational specialties (most of whom serve in the combat arms) undergo training in combat engineer and infantry battle drills, expedient demolitions, threat weapons, unarmed combat, mountaineering, and water operations. Some of the training in this 28-day course, arguably one of the most challenging in the U.S. Army, features covert infiltration techniques or survival skills.

In the Israeli Defense Forces, sapper (פלס) is a military profession code denoting a combat engineer who has graduated from various levels of combat engineering training. Sapper 05 is the basic level, Sapper 06 is the general level, Sapper 08 is the combat engineer commander's level, and Sapper 11 is the combat engineer officer level. All IDF sappers are also trained as Rifleman 07, matching infantry.

In the Canadian Army, it is a term for soldiers that have completed the basic Combat Engineer training.

In the Portuguese Army, a sapador de engenharia (engineering sapper) is a soldier of the engineering branch that has specialized combat engineer training. A sapador de infantaria (infantry sapper) is a soldier of the infantry branch that has a similar training and that usually serves in the combat support sapper platoon of an infantry battalion.

The Italian Army uses the term guastatori for their combat engineers.

Pioneer
In the Finnish army, pioneeri is the private equivalent rank in the army for a soldier who has completed the basic combat engineering training. Naval engineers retain the rank matruusi but bear the pioneeri insignia on their sleeves.

The German Bundeswehr uses the term Pionier for their combat engineers and other specialized units, who are associated with Special Forces to clear obstacles and perform engineering duties. Also the combat engineers in the Austro-Hungarian k.u.k. Forces were called "Pioniere".

Assault pioneer
In the British, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand armies, an assault pioneer is an infantry soldier with some limited combat engineer training in clearing obstacles during assaults and light engineering duties. Until recently, assault pioneers were responsible for the operation of flamethrowers.

Field engineer
Field engineer is a term used (or formerly used) in many Commonwealth armies. In modern usage, it is often synonymous with combat engineer. However, the term originally identified those military engineers who supported an army operating in the field instead of garrison engineers who built and supported permanent fixed bases. In its original usage, "field engineering" would have been inclusive of but broader than "combat engineering."

Specialisations
Sappers specialising in tunnel warfare may be known as miners.

In the French army, combat engineers specialising in bridge-building are pontoniers.

Practices and techniques
Combat engineers are force multipliers and enhance the survival of other troops through the use and practice of camouflage, reconnaissance, communications and other services. These include the construction of roads, bridges, field fortifications, obstacles and the construction and running of water points. In these roles, combat engineers use a wide variety of hand and power tools. They are also responsible for construction rigging, the use of explosives, and the carrying out of demolitions, obstacle clearance, and obstacle construction, assault of fortifications, use of assault boats in water obstacle crossings, helipad construction, general construction, route reconnaissance and road reconnaissance, and erecting communication installations. Combat engineers build and run water distribution points, carrying out water filtration, and NBC decontamination when necessary, and storage prior to distribution.

All these role activities and technologies are divided into several areas of combat engineering:

Mobility
Improving the ability of one's own force to move around the battlefield. Combat engineers typically support this role through reduction of enemy obstacles which include point and row minefields, anti-tank ditches, wire obstacles, concrete, and metal anti-vehicle barriers, and improvised explosive devices (IED) and wall and door breaching in urban terrain. Mechanized combat engineer units also have armored vehicles capable of laying short bridges for limited gap-crossing.
 * Clearing terrain obstacles
 * Overcoming trenches and ditches
 * Opening routes for armored fighting vehicles
 * Constructing roads and bridges
 * Route clearance

Countermobility
Building obstacles to prevent the enemy from moving around the battlefield. Destroying bridges, blocking roads, creating airstrips, digging trenches, etc. Can also include planting land mines and anti-handling devices when authorized and directed to do so.

When the defender must retreat it is often desirable to destroy anything that may be of use to the enemy, particularly bridges, as their destruction can slow the advance of the attackers.
 * Planting land mines
 * Digging trenches and ditches
 * Demolishing roads and bridges

Explosive material handling
The placement of land mines to create minefields and their maintenance and removal.
 * Clearing fields of land mines
 * Demolition

Assault

 * Opening routes during an assault
 * Demolishing enemy structures (using bulldozers or explosive charges).

Defense structures
Building structures which enable one's own soldiers to survive on the battlefield. Examples include trenches, bunkers, shelters, and armored vehicle fighting positions.

Defensive fortifications are designed to prevent intrusion into the inner works by infantry. For minor defensive locations, these may only consist of simple walls and ditches. The design principle is to slow down the advance of attackers to where they can be destroyed by defenders from sheltered positions. Most large fortifications are not a single structure but rather a concentric series of fortifications of increasing strength.
 * Building fortifications
 * Building outposts
 * Building fences
 * Defense against WMD weapon threats

Equipment and vehicles
Combat engineers employ a wide range of transportation vehicles and equipment and use weapons unique to the engineers, including those used in land mine warfare.

Equipment used by combat engineers
Basic combat engineering tools include safe use of:
 * driving tools and chopping tools (hammers, mauls, sledges, screwdriver, and bits)
 * cutting tools and smoothing tools (saws, chisels, planes, files and rasps, brush-cutting tools, miscellaneous cutting tools)
 * drilling tools, boring tools, and countersinking tools
 * measuring tools, leveling tools and layout tools (rules, tapes, marking tools, levels, plumb bobs, squares)
 * gripping tools, prying tools, and twisting tools (pliers, wrenches, bars)
 * holding tools, raising tools, and grinding tools (vises, clamps, jacks, grinders, and oilstones)
 * timber handling tools and climbing tools; digging tools (shovels, posthole diggers, picks, and mattocks)
 * portable power tools and trailer-mounted tools (electric tool trailer and generator, portable power tools)
 * miscellaneous tools.

Obstacle breaching
For obstacle breaching, including minefields, the combat engineers use a variety of vehicles, explosive devices, and plastic explosives including:
 * Minefield breaching devices
 * Dozer blade
 * Mine rollers
 * Bangalore torpedo
 * Antipersonnel Obstacle Breaching System
 * Mine-clearing line charge (MICLIC)
 * Bomb disposal robots
 * Explosives, mines, and bombs
 * Field-deployable bridges, for example, French EFA and Bailey bridge.

Historical publications
The Basic Field Manual, Engineer Soldier's Handbook, 2 June 1943 (FM 21-105) was written to provide guidance to a new combat engineer in the United States.

title: Combat engineer