text:
Talk:Palestine (region)/Archive 4

OK, not bad, but how about where you have 'Arava valley' also should we add the more common name of the 'Jordan Valley' as some people may not know what you mean by 'Arava valley' (if that is the name for the 'Jordan Valley'. We have to treat the material and content from the perspective that someone may not know much about it, so the intro. should be plain and easy to understand without complicated matter. Also 'Lebanon Mountains' I do not think is a very good geographic name, perhaps something like: from the north by the 'Sea of Gallilee', the 'Golan Heights', and the 'Bekaa Valley'. Also the correct Arabic would be 'EL Falastyn', also like 'EL Lebnan'. or 'EL Ourdan' (for Jordan). Always 'EL' for 'the' when describing a geographic area. As for the more detailed descriptions, (the animal/plant life, natural deposits etc.) I think that that should be later on in the article, prhaps under natural resources and animal plant life sections. The More general geographic explanation of the area, should be at the beginning with an explanation about how it may be considered in modern day terms (at least for the intro). So something like 'What was once considered Palestine is now:' or 'The general goegraphic area of what once was palestine is now modern day Israel (including the Occupied West Bank  and Gaza)...' Whatever it is that sounds best, the point being that we should again explain in general terms, in terms that most people who may not understand or know much about it, could say oh that is what they mean by that.

As I said before later on in the article we could treat the subject in more detailed ways. I have sort of an outline plan for the article:

Intro: Much of what we have with some refinement. (main points are that this is the area where the current conflict in the ME is raging, that two peoples have equal rights to this land (both had always lived there, even during the Diaspora of the Jews many stayed there, they never ever all left). Equally so that the Palestinians have also continously lived there.

Later on we break down the article into three main headings, as that is how most people would identify the history:

Heading 1: Pre-history or period up to the fall of the Ottoman Empire... Whatever we may agreee on. I kind of like  'History of Palestine up to the First World War' myself. There could also be a link saying something like 'See also Israel, or Ancient Israel, or the Levant'. As these are seperate topics, at the end of the first heading would allow the reader the chance to check into more history if they want or to read on to the next heading if they want.

Heading 2: could be from the End of the First World War to the end of the British Mandate. In this section we lay out the main conflict, various aggreements and statements, and the partition plan, all the dirty/conflicting stuff.

Heading 3: from 1948 (the establishment of the state of Israel) to present times. In this section we lay out the rest. We could also place here Arab/Palestinian views and Jewish/Israeli views on the conflict and subject.

In each of the 3 main sections we could add sub-sections explaining in more detail specifics on topical items like for example: the animal/plant life, natural deposits, customs, etc., specifcs to the time frame, and the people.

What do you think of that?

 * What is considered Israel (including the occupied territories and the Gaza strip) is considered by most historians as the actual physical area that was once the state called Palestine.

 * That's not really precise (Palestine has been a Mameluk and then Turkish province, never an independent state). Maybe the following is better:
 * Currently, the area of Palestine is divided between the State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Previously, Palestine was an administrative unit of the Roman Empire, Arab Khaliphate, Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, Kingdom of Mameluks, the Turkish Empire and the British Empire, in roughly similar borders.

 * The Palestinians of today, are a people who are the direct decendants of all the people who have conquered, lived, and occupied this land. Palestinians are a people who comprise an Arab identity, and are usually, but not limited to, being Christian or Muslim. Their Christian identity can be traced from the time of the earliest Christians and Christianity. Muslim Palestinians, trace their conversion from about the 7th century A.D.

 * It should be noted and understood that in addition to the Palestinians, there was/is another people who have lived in this area without interuption from the beginning of time, these people are known variously as: Hebrews, Canaanonites [sp], Israelites, and Jews. These people throughout their long history and diaspora, have not only lived in the land of what was once known as Palestine, but other countries in the Middle East (Link here), as well.

 * There has always been a Jewish and Arab/Palestinian presence in this land.

 * I'd rather replace (and reorder) the three paragraphs above, so that it reads:
 * Two peoples are historically associated with the land of Palestine: these are the Jews and Palestinian Arabs.
 * The Palestinians (most of your text intact)
 * The Jews lived in this land since immemorable times. It was in this Palestine where they have written the Bible; they were expelled by the Romans in the 1st century A.D. Although most Jews were forced out of their land for thousands of years, they have never given up the hope of returning to it one day.

 * Palestine, is a name that was given to the Holy Land by the Romans during the period of the Roman ocupation of the region in 70 A.D. The name Palestine, derives from the biblical Philistines, who occupied the region of the southern coast of the land of Israel.

 * The name "Palestine" originates in Palestina, the name given to this land by Romans to replace the older Judaea following the Jewish revolt of A.D. 70. The name Palestine, derives from the Philistines, who, as the Bible says, occupied the southern Mediterranean coast of Israel. By the time of the renaming, the Philistines ceased to be a separate ethnic group, and the name was chosen specifically to opress the Jews.

 * The history of this part of the world, being the subject of a conflict that continues to this day, is heavily disputed; there are indeed few statements concerning its history which would be agreed with by both Israelis and Palestinians. This article attempts, however imperfectly, to present both sides equally and fairly.

That is the main part of what I would like to see, please note that links have not really been included yet. My suggestion would be that once we agree (if we can) on the intro. we add the links, and wherever we leave off, explain that the revision is on-going. I do not want to rewrite much of what was once a fairly accurate article, however, I want us (and others who have an interest)to agree on the content before we post. Let me know what you think, sorry it took so long for such a small revision, but I wanted to be sure it was unbiased. There can also be made mention through links, specific subjetcs on Israel, Jews, Palestinians, etc...

Remember that the intro. just should give a basic overview, of the subject, details can be added later on in the article.

Hoping this meets your expectations somewhat...

 * Your writing was very good. A point which I felt was important is the fact of Palestine's being a separate land (with distinct geographical/zoological/botanical features). This land was in most cases a single administrative unit, but it was never independent (since at least 50 B.C.). What do you think about it? --Uriyan

Joseph

=
======================================================= Thanks Uriyan for your patience and time (please see comments above) I feel that if we take our time, and work these things out, we could have a realy good article, that most people could understand and agree with. Also I feel that one of our main guidelines and principles should be, that we should look at the subject from these two points of view:

 * 1) What is in the best interests of the reader, how would they look at it? How would they understand it? There is no point in placing material that only a Jewish or Palestinian scholar or person would know or understand. We should go from broad to specific...

 * 2) What is the most current view? What is it, that is most commonly accepted as the facts for a certain chain of events or subjects. For example I have never heard of 'Arava Valley'. Sorry for my ignorance. But do you see where I am going with this, I want the article to encompass the subject from a distinctly matter of fact way. Later on at the end of a heading or subheading, you place a 'See Also link:' In the library world see also's are the way complicated subjects are handled, that way a novice or experienced user will both find what they need when doing research.

Waiting for your next reply, sorry it took so long.

Joseph - Well, first of all my first name is Uri, so you can call me that :-). The points that you bring are important. I think that you're right in proposing to separate the pieces of information (indeed, perhaps the introduction should only say that "Palestine is a land situated at the northern part of East Mediterranean") and expand later on in the body of the article. So perhaps we should need yet another heading on "Geography of Palestine" or something of this sort.

The "Arava Valley" (translation/transliteration of Hebrew emeq ha-a'rava), is a wide valley that is a continuation of the Jordan Valley to the south. This was a bad choice of name (even though it's used in some English sources, most of the English public does not know the name). In general, I think that it's best to stick to the English names, as Wikipedia is an English encyclopedia.

P.S., please see my comments at Talk:Ariel Sharon. Uriyan

=
============================================================== Ok Uri, thanks for that, my friends sometimes call me Joe for short. I have added some comments to Ariel Sharon Talk. Also feel free to make changes to editorial style, however, not to specific content, I will work with you to make all issues on Israeli/Arab pages better, more professional, and easier to understand. I regret now, that I made unilateral changes earlier on when I first started some months ago. Feel free to start the intro. for Palestine, keeping in mind points I have made, I will mention any problems in talk here after I review with you. I am working on some articles in my spare time specifically on the 1914-1948 and 1948-1967 period. Thanks again for your help in this, it is turning into a lot of work.

Joseph

BTW: have you geard of Gush Shalom? I would like to add a page for them...

---

Hi Joseph. I appreciate your cooperation a lot. I've started to write an intro which I think to be generally better than the existing one (geography rather than politics), but it'll probably take me some more days to post it. One thing that I don't feel comfortable, though, with the choice of name - I feel that e.g. Holy Land would be better. Palestine is a name alien to Jews, while "Holy Land" is relatively neutral. What do you think about it?

I've heard of Gush Shalom, they're one of the more radical peace movements here in Israel, led by Uri Avneri. You can find their site at http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/. Note however that most Israelis don't take them seriously, Peace Now is more popular (as far as I can tell, I'm not affiliated with them).

P.S. Thank you for your kind words at my Talk page. Uriyan

 * No it is not all right, the reason I got involved was because it was refered to as Palestine, but I see now that there is no room for the Palestinian position. Right now I am a bit upset perhaps I should not write, but Palestine is the name, if you want to create a 'Holy Land' page, create one, but I feel it is a wate of time, RK will come and dispute the whole article.

 * Why is there not allowed any mention of my point of view, the Palestinian point of view like:

 * There has always been a Palestinian/Arab presence in Palestine: For all the invasions and changes in its rulers, the core of Palestine's population has been etthnically stable for millennia, posessing for the last thirteen hundred years a culture that has been unambiguously Arab. Many popular images of the Zionist movement portray the land as desolate or empty of a vibrant people and culture. Golda Meir announced that they never existed as evidenced in this famous quote "There was no such thing as Palestinians...It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist." This kind of propaganda could never have been really convincing outside Israel because so many people - travellers, merchants, missionaries, and soldiers - had actually seen the Palestinians and knew that they existed even if they did not know much about them.

 * There are now somewhere between 6.5 - 7 million Palestinians worldwide, some live as a minority in Israel proper, some live in the West Bank and Gaza portions of Palestine, most are refugees in many parts of the world (mainly the Middle East, Europe, and North and South America) living a life of diaspora, as displaced persons. Few Palestinians have assimilated to their host countries. Most feel too strong, a sense of identity, with their Palestinian nationalism.

 * In 1948 Palestine ceased to exist politically, however, its people remain a vital and integral part of the land, known variously as: 'the Holy land', Israel, Palestine, etc. They remain Palestinians awaiting their political and national rights. I know that it is a waste of time now, I will have to try to edit and fit my text the way I see fit, because the Palestinian views will never be allowed, only Zionist propaganda. I am sorry URI, but if there is real change I will go back to cooperation otherwise, we do not agree, especially with RK.

 * Joseph (March 6, 2002)

-

I removed the following disclaimed from the main entry. "The Palestinians dispute most of the contents of this article, as it represents mainly the view of a single side, that is one of Israeli Zionists." I removed this sentence for the following reason:

The Palestinian community is well known for disputing much of ancient and modern history regarding this subject. A great many Palestinians literally believe that much of history, ancient and present, is a hoax by "the Jews", or the Western powers of the world. In many Palestinian elementary schools, middle schools, high school, and Islamic seminaries, they teach that (a) The Biblical nation of Israel never existed, (b) The Jews really came from Yemen, (c) There really are no Jews; most "Jews" are really Kazars who are trying to steal Palestinian land; (d) There was no Temple in Jerusalem, ever, (e) There was never any Jewish presence in the land of Israel, ever, (f) The Holocaust didn't happen, of if many Jews did die, it was greatly exagerrated, (g) that "the Zionists" have a secret plan to rule the world. Among Palestinians these are not the views of a tiny number of extremists; these are fairly mainstream views. As such, it should not be surprising that some of them view everything in Wikipedia as distorted by "Zionists" (whom Palestinians erroneously believe to be monolithic.)

The question is, is there good reason to believe that a great amount of the current article is a lie, or distorted to the point of needing such a widespread disclaimer? I note that no other Wikpedia entries have such disclaimers. The Wikipedia community should just follow the standard Wikipedia editing protocol. If someone has a concrete reason for believing that a statement needs to be changed, put forth the new version, with valid historical references, and explain why. This shouldn't be a battleground accusing "the Zionists" of being liars. RK

Hello, Joseph. First of all, to maters of principle: in Wikipedia, we write encyclopedia articles that are objective and neutral. There should be only one article for each subject; that's why you can't claim "you have the article about Israel to spill your truth on". There can be only one article covering the history of Mandatory Palestine, and if we beleive there are several versions of these facts - they should all be combined into that article. That is the reason why I chose to cooperate with you - but I can do it only if you recognize that there's more than one "truth".

Secondly, as to the choice of name. You would most certainly be offended if I created an article called "Eretz Israel" (or "Land of Israel"), because it is a name alien to you and your people. In the same manner, Palestine is a name alien to me and my people. "Holy Land" is a compromise, and while it is not the way we both usually call this land, it would offend noone.

Thirdly, as to the part of the article that we've been debating (it has a heading beginning with the words "There has always been a Palestinian/Arab presence in Palestine"), it uses 6 paragraphs to explain 3 points:
 * 1) Palestine has been ethnically stable for millenia.
 * 2) Zionists are liars
 * 3) There are 6.5-7 million Palestinians worldwide

Point #3 is factual and could be integrated into an article (e.g. Palestinian). Point #1 is very vague - how does one define "ethnically stable"? In the millennial range, the only thing that I could say is that the region is occupied by Semites (Jews included), and you don't bring any facts to explain yourself further. As to Point #2, you skipped the part of proving that the land wasn't desolate, and rather switch to "uncovering the Zionist propaganda". Note that I'm not taking a position in this argument - it's irrelevant whether it was or was not desolate, but you need proof no matter what you try to prove! Because you prefer to make far-going statements that offend many people yet do not bring any relevant facts, this fragment is a piece of Palestinian propaganda in its own right, and as such unacceptable to an encyclopedia.

If I were writing this fragment, I would first provide information about the ethnical build-up of population and the land's economical life throughout the history (which is factual). Then I would write a paragraph about the Palestinian people's struggle for national liberation (which is also factual). And only in the section titled "Commentary" I would provide my thoughts about propaganda (which are an opinion).

You ask "What does the Holocaust have to do with Palestine?", and I answer: the Holocaust was a major event in the Jewish world, which changed the way Jews treat Zionism. You cannot separate the Holy Land from the rest of the world, and you cannot separate it from the Jews, for whom it is as much a homeland as for you.

If you recognize that there's more than one view of the truth, and that not all people must accept yours(this is particularly important in Wikipedia, which is a tool for education), I will protect your right to state your view as such. But if you deny the other people's right to state their opinions, in the same way as you state yours, you will only be pushing your own, subjective, view of the things, and I will have to resist that. The choice is in your hands. Uriyan

Part of the problem is that Palestine has several different meanings: geographical, historical, political, etc., each of which has different connotations for the people involved in the conflict. Furthermore, the definitions are so intertwined that no one has, as yet, succeeded in untangling them (and I mean politicians, journalists, historians, etc., and not just Wikipedians). Here then, is my attempt. If people think that this this is more or less the right direction, I will continue with Geography, then History, then People. Danny

Mister RK.I could search the libraries here and find source material for you, I could also give you ISBN #'s of books, names of authors, etc, etc, etc... You will never believe them, you do not even listen to any points that I make.

 * The problem, Joseph, is that you do not make any points. You just shout that everyone in the entire world is a "Zionist liar", and that only you have "the truth". Your lack of methodology indicates that you are basing your facts on emotional outburts, rather than historical documentation. RK

Whatever, I put up some entries earlier for URI to check out, also I suggested some new publications, one in particular called Culturgrams [sp]... I suggest you read these, and learn the truth, the real truth.

 * A quote from a website, in of itself, means nothing in a historical debate. Anyone can write anything on a website. I can even show you many, many websites that "prove" that the world is flat. Does this constitute valid scientific or historical truth? No. RK

I had no assistance from anyone in furthering my education. We came to this country as refugees from a war that was started by Israel, I know, it was not Israel's fault right... They had to attack right, I know the story, more lies, I was there as a child, and I remember, believe me...

 * Please, re-read the emotional outburst you just made. Dispense with the paranoia and self-pity. As long as you are controlled by your rage, you will not be able to work with history-minded individuals in a productive fashion. RK

You can say what you want, you can do what you want, but leave me alone... I will listen and address those that address me, as is appropriate. One more thing please, post at the bottom, I find it hard to follow where you post comments now, and also find it confusing. I know the truth about Palestine, and until it is posted I will not be content or quiet.

 * No one accepts that your claims are true, simply because you claim that you "know the truth". History books are not written by those who shout the loudest. You need to be objective, that's all we are asking. RK

title: Talk:Palestine (region)/Archive 4


text:
John Stevens (inventor, born 1749)

{{Infobox officeholder }}
 * name          = John Stevens
 * image         = John Stevens by an unidentified artist, c. 1830, oil on canvas, from the National Portrait Gallery - NPG-NPG 75 13Stevens d1.jpg
 * office        = Treasurer of New Jersey
 * term_start    = 1776
 * term_end      = 1779
 * caption       =
 * birth_date    = {{birth date|1749|06|24}}
 * birth_place   = New York City, Province of New York, British America
 * death_date    = {{death date and age|1838|03|06|1749|06|24|mf=y}}
 * death_place   = Hoboken, New Jersey, U.S.
 * alma_mater    = Kings College
 * parents       = John Stevens Elizabeth Alexander
 * spouse        = {{marriage|Rachel Cox|October 17, 1782}}
 * children      = 13, including John, Robert, Edwin
 * relations     = See Stevens family
 * residence     = Castle Point
 * occupation    =
 * allegiance    = United States
 * branch        = {Continental Army
 * rank          = Colonel
 * battles       = Revolutionary War

Col. John Stevens, III (June 26, 1749 – March 6, 1838) was an American lawyer, engineer, and inventor who constructed the first U.S. steam locomotive, first steam-powered ferry, and first U.S. commercial ferry service from his estate in Hoboken. He was influential in the creation of U.S. patent law.

Early life
Stevens was born June 26, 1749, in New York City, New York. He was the only son of John Stevens Jr. (1715–1792), a prominent state politician who served as a delegate to the Continental Congress, and Elizabeth Alexander (1726–1800). His sister, Mary Stevens (d. 1814), married Robert R. Livingston, the first Chancellor of the State of New York.

His maternal grandparents were James Alexander (1691–1756), the Attorney General of New Jersey, and Mary (née Spratt) Provoost Alexander (1693–1760), herself a prominent merchant in New York City. His paternal grandfather, John Stevens, emigrated from London England around 1695, and was married to Mary Campbell.

He graduated King's College (which became Columbia University) in May 1768.

Career
After his graduation from King's College, he studied law and was admitted to the bar of New York City in 1771. He practiced law in New York and lived across the river. At public auction, he bought from the state of New Jersey a piece of land which had been confiscated from a Tory landowner. The land, described as "William Bayard's farm at Hoebuck" comprised approximately what is now the city of Hoboken. Stevens built his estate at Castle Point, on land that would later become the site of Stevens Institute of Technology (bequeathed by his son Edwin Augustus Stevens). During the 1830s, he developed the land around his estate into the Elysian Fields, a popular weekend recreational and entertainment destination for New Yorkers during the 19th century.

Stevens bought a farm in Dutchess County, New York from John Armstrong Jr. Armstrong had converted a barn into a two-story Federal style dwelling with twelve rooms. Stevens made improvements to the estate, including a half-mile race track. He later sold the property to John Church Cruger (1807–1879), husband of Euphemia Van Rensselaer, daughter of Stephen Van Rensselaer. The Crugers named the estate "Annandale".

In 1776, at age 27, he was appointed a captain in Washington's army in the American Revolutionary War. During the War, he was promoted to colonel and became Treasurer of New Jersey, serving from 1776 to 1779.

In 1789, Stevens was elected to the American Philosophical Society.

In 1790, Stevens petitioned Congress for a bill that would protect American inventors. Through his efforts, his bill became a law on April 10, 1790, which introduced the patent system as law in the United States, patent law.

In 1799, Stevens was named to the Board of Directors of the Manhattan Company. As one of the original stockholders and directors of The Manhattan Company, Stevens was appointed to a three-person committee, along with John B. Coles and Samuel Osgood, to explore the best ways to supply water to New York City. He ultimately became the company’s consulting engineer and succeeded in convincing his fellow directors that steam pumping engines should be used and installed.

Steamboats
In 1802, Stevens designed and a built a single screw steamboat using a rotary steam engine, a primitive single stage turbine. However, due to poor sealing, the design was abandoned and he would switch to using more conventional reciprocating engines for future steamboats.

In 1804, Stevens built the Little Juliana, a twin screwed steamboat. She was one of the first steamboats to incorporate twin screws and a high pressure steam engine. She successfully sailed down the Hudson in May 1804.

In 1806, he built the Phoenix, a steamboat that ultimately sailed from Hoboken to Philadelphia in 1809, thereby becoming the first steamship to successfully navigate the open ocean.

In October 1811, Stevens' ship the Juliana began operation as the first steam-powered ferry (service was between New York City, and Hoboken, New Jersey).

The first railroad charter in the U.S. was given to Stevens and others in 1815 for the New Jersey Railroad. The charter essentially gave Stevens and his partners, through the Camden & Amboy Railroad, a monopoly on railroads in the state of New Jersey. In 1825, he designed and built a steam locomotive, which he operated on a circle of track at his estate in Hoboken, New Jersey.

Personal life
On October 17, 1782, he married Rachel Cox (1761–1839), the daughter of John Cox. She was a descendant of the Langeveldts (or Longfields) who originally settled New Brunswick, New Jersey. Together, they had thirteen children of which seven were sons. The children included:

 * John Cox Stevens (1785–1857), first commodore of the New York Yacht Club who married Maria C. Livingston in 1809.
 * Robert Livingston Stevens (1787–1856), applied the wave line to shipbuilding, and president of Camden and Amboy Railroad, the first railroad built in New Jersey.
 * James Alexander Stevens (1790–1873)
 * Richard Stevens (1792–1835)
 * Francis Bowes Stevens (1793–1812)
 * Edwin Augustus Stevens (1795–1868), the founder of Stevens Institute of Technology who married Mary Barton Picton and, after her death, Martha Bayard Dod
 * Elizabeth Juliana Stevens (1797–1881), who married Thomas Anderson Conover (1791–1864)
 * Mary Stevens (1799–1825), the first wife of Rear Admiral Joshua R. Sands (1795–1883)
 * Harriet Stevens (1801–1844), the second wife of Joshua R. Sands
 * Esther Bowes Stevens (b. 1804)
 * Catherine Sophia Van Cortlandt Stevens (b. 1806)

Stevens died on March 6, 1838, at his estate in Hoboken, New Jersey.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: John Stevens (inventor, born 1749)


text:
Talk:Conspiracy theory/Archive 1

"For a literature version of a conspiracy theory, try The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson."

And, so far as movies go, why not rent Conspiracy Theory, watch the first half and stop; then rent The Parallax View? --KQ (self-editing) :-)

 * Or perhaps "The Manchurian Candidate". A real head-trip conspiracy theory, even if the politics are now fairly antiquated. --Robert Merkel

Do Elvis sightings really belong in conspiracy theory?? Although I guess if I have to ask, nobody will tell me the truth anyway. :-)

 * Yeah, even if only humorously.

Removed from parent page, because people don't seriously believe that Bert and ObL are involved in a plot. . . do they?

Osama bin Laden and Bert (of Bert and Ernie) Conspiracy in relation to the terrorist attacks on the United States.

IMHO, we should try to separate "real" conspiracy theories from "conspiracy theory humor" (an interesting, related, but distinct topic). Or is there something I'm missing here? Does anyone really believe anything other than some Bangladeshi nutball protestor (who must have been much wealthier than the average Bangladeshi, admittedly) did a search for "Osama bin Laden" on images.google.com to make a collage for his poster, found the doctored Bert and Osama image, had no idea who Bert was, and just happily went on photoshopping his poster together? --Robert Merkel

Fortunately, there's already a place for the Osama-Bert connection: September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack/Misinformation and rumors. --TheCunctator

I deleted quite a bit of text from the article (and included it below, complete). I deleted this:
 * Consequently, even in the absence of hard evidence, a conspiracy theorist may advance a theory which is supported by facts of which even he is unaware.

I'm not sure what this means; I suspect it just needs to be reworded.

 * A conspiracy, once proven to a reasonable extent, is no longer a mere hypothesis.

Well, that's true of anything, eh?

 * Hence, conspiracy hypotheses (or "theories" in common talk) are necessarily unproven -- and the majority of such are eventually disproved.

First, the point of the parenthetical comment seems to imply that conspiracy theories are not theories. Well, that depends, of course, on the claims being made by the conspiracy theorist, and the evidence behind them. I don't think that "conspiracy theory" is consistently used so that there are necessarily no conspiracy theories, but only conspiracy hypotheses. In other words, if one were to provide adequate evidence for you and I to establish that a nefarious conspiracy by the Council on Foreign Relations, McDonald's, and Michael Jackson were afoot, but not enough to "prove" it, and in that case we would have a conspiracy theory. Just because it would have moved past that vague stage of being merely a hypothesis, it would not therefore (??) not be a theory. More to the point, my understanding is that not everybody always uses "conspiracy theory" to mean something that necessarily has totally inadequate evidence in its favor. It's not always a pejorative term.

Second, I doubt very much that the majority of conspiracy theories are eventually disproven. I think that most of them are simply dismissed out of hand by experts as absurd and not worth considering. I could be wrong; perhaps the people who study conspiracy theories have studied who has responded to conspiracy theorists and wrote up this research, concluding, "Most conspiracy theories are eventually disproved (according to some standards or other)." --Larry Sanger

A lot of people, everywhere, refer to Freemasonry as a "secret society," but it obviously isn't. You can look up the address and possibly telephone number of your local Masonic Lodge in the phone book, and, especially in the US, most Masons are quite open about their affiliation. I'm not sure what to do about Freemasonry on the list, so for now I'm going to put it right above the heading "Secret Societies." --Alex Kennedy

Could we shift the Arab conspiracy theories somewhere else, and link to it? The point of conspiracy theories is that they're only taken seriously by a small minority. If, as is claimed, they're widely believed in the Arab world, they're a different animal. ---Robert Merkel
 * 1) The majority of the American public believes that the assasination of Kennedy was a conspiracy. This is perhaps the most widely-attacked "conspiracy theory" there is (Oliver Stone's name has become a joke because of it). I think it prejudicial and unrigorous to try to build concepts like "unpopular" and "ridiculous" into the very definition of conspiracy theory. The concept should be definiable in a neutral way. The definition also should be such that actual historical conspiracies would qualify. Many of these were just "conspiracy theories" before they were verified, and if one calls a theory a "conspiracy theory" while holding it to be false and something else if it turns out to be true, the term is not denoting the thing, but your judgement of it.  -  -How about this: A conspiracy theory is a belief that an event of historical significance has been manipulated by the covert action of the powerful.   -  -The only difference between these and the "casual conspiracies" mentioned is the historical significance. I've noticed lately that people are using "conspiracy theory" to describe (and usually to dismiss) more casual situations like office politics. As noted, low-level conspiracies happen all the time, and theorizing about their existence is not a different kind of operation depending on whether or not they are important on an historical scale. So I really think this "historical significance" part of the definition is questionable. I don't think there is any problem with saying that conspiracies are ubiquitous, and conspiracy theories are ubiquitous, but only a small percentage of each concern events of general interest. However, I can be flexible on this point, I guess.

 * That is incorrect. Some conspiracy theories are believed by millions of people all across the world. Conspiracy theory is certainly mainstream in the Arab world, and many Arab scholars ahve written about this phenomenon. For example, many Arab countries teach about "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in their middle school, high school and colleges in official government approved textbooks. They also teach in the government funded press that Jews hav secretly been murdering Christian children for centuries, using their blood to make pastries. This (sadly) is accepted as a historical fact by a great many Arabs. And what about the central United States, where tens of thousands of white American Christians have joined or support "militias" which preach various conspiracy theories as fact (e.g. the claim that the Geroge Bush has joined with the United Nations to create a New World Order to take over the United States; or the claim that the original America literally no longer exists, and was replaced by the ZOG - Zionist Occupied Government.) This is not merely what a couple of dozen of people believe; this belief is widely accepted. And who can forget the black helicopter conspiracy theories? RK]]

Further, their presence here, picking out Palestinians for conspiracy theories, is unfair. There are apparently all sorts of conspiracy theories floating around Africa as to the origin of AIDS. Many in Indonesia think Australia is conspiring to split it up. Eurosceptics have all sorts of conspiracy theories about the EU being some left-wing plot. The anti-globalization movement thinks the WTO is the seat of immense power (when it's really just a creature of governments and the multinational companies that influence their policy). And so on. --Robert Merkel

 * The existence of conspiracy theories in various ethnic groups is neither fair nor unfair. It is simply a fact. Did you realize that there is now a substantial and growing section on American conspiracy theories? If you re-read the article you will find this section, which links to many Wikipedia articles on the many conspiracy theories believed by millions of Americans. Does this mean that Wikipedia is anti-American? No, it just means that this article is describing conspiracy theory among United States citizens. Finally, I note that you say there are many other conspiracy theories that this entry does not yet have a section on. Why, then, delete what we already have? Wouldn't it make more sense to add material on the subjects you bring up? Let's be productive. RK]]

-

Does calling something a Conspiracy Theory fit with the principle of NPOV? In my opinion, in practice it has an implicit value judgement that the idea is absurd and only believed by the gullible. -- Khendon

 * But there are obvious, objective ways to identify conspiracy theories: the fact that the term has a connotation of being "kooky" is simply a consequence of the fact that most of them are. It is not in itself a value judgment, it has just come to be one for good reasons. In other words, calling something "ridiculous" or "kooky" is a judgment. Calling it a "conspiracy theory" is merely a description (if accurate); if that makes the reader think of "kooky", then sobeit.  --LDC

-But the "obvious objective" ways do not seem to include verified conspiracies, so uncontroversal examples of the genre are excluded. It also seems to exclude quotidian conspiracies, so limiting the purview to the exotic. Finally, the article implies that conspiracies inevitably have little or no evidence. Ones that do have enough evidence to be accepted as "true" fall into a different category called "actual historical conspiracies". This biases the case by eliminating cases where such theories have proven correct and looking only at ones where they are still dubious. Judging from some comments on this thread; some people seem to think the discussion should be limited to the openly outrageous - all of this without a defined difference in kind other than the judgement of the one making the classification as "outrageous" etc.

Why isn't the idea that Al Qaeda was responsible for the Sept 11th attacks included in this page? That's a conspiracy theory, surely? -- Khendon - What's the difference between conspiracy theory and urban legends ? The Sex Gum story seems IMHO is more urban legends than a conspiracy theory. I heard the same in France (only difference it was not Israelians but a group of pedophiles). A urban legend reports imaginary facts. A conspiracy theory should have something more : the governement knows but he hides evidences because it's also involved in the conspiracy and some secret message (but strangelly not so secret for conspiracy theorist) has revealed the truth to the Pope John Paul I but unluckily the catholic church is also a part of the conspiracy (to be continued) ....... for instance. - Being French I have the strong feeling that the United States produce more conspiracy theories than most European Countries. Maybe it's related to JFK asssination ? Or maybe it's just that Holywood does good job turning them into blockbusters (MIB). Ericd 22:22 Sep 12, 2002 (UTC) - "Many African-Americans in the US believe that HIV,...." has nothing to do with american this is a worldwide belief (atr least for some).... than americans or russian invented the HIV virus in some biological warfare research and it escaped by mistake. This obviously impossible for those who are some culture in genetics.... I still wonder why there is no conspiracy theory about extra-terrestrial origins of the virus ? - Classyfying conspiracy therory by country is neither fair or neutral HIV conspiracy theory as nothing to do with arab moon landing hoax is not american it's believed by many peoples in Europa and Africa, Area 51 is worldwide famous. Ericd 00:12 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC)

 * How can this neutral, dispassionate discussion be called and non-neutral? You say that there is something here that violates Wikipedia NPOV policy, but you don't say what that something is. Do you hold that noting that regional differences exist must somehow be bigotry? I would disagree. Many of these theories are peculiarly American, and its not anti-American to say so. Similarly, many of these theories only exist to a significant degree in the Black American community, or in the Arab Muslim community, or in Canada, etc. It would be an intellectually dishonest gap in the entry if we removed this information, to appease overly-sensitive people whose feel that someone is out to hurt them. (No one is doing so.) This article isn't anti-American, anti-Canadian, anti-black, or Anti-Arab. (I am picking these groups because they have specific conspiracy theories assocated with them.) RK

-##No. But it is anti-conspiracy theory. That is not neutral.

 * As for Area 51, its true that many people around the world know of this American conspiracy theory, but its still a conspiracy theory based on American history, sociology, politics and folklore. This myth was created in America, and it is most widely held among Americans. It would be inaccurate to say otherwise. And I don't believe that anyone here is being anti-American in saying so. We are just just trying to describe the emergence and acceptance of this conspiracy theory in a historic and neutral fashion. RK

 * RK conspiracy theories are believed when they have some fear to hook on a lot of conspiracy theory dealing with Israel were circulating in Europe in the 1980s just repplace Israel by The communists or The KGB and it worked (at least for some people). September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack conspiracy theories are believed by a significative number of people in France Thierry Meyssan has made a best -seller with this kind of garbage. I heard about moon landing faked in West Africa (Burkina Faso)around 1987 I think people believed in it because they refused to admit there was such a huge gap in technology and development between Africa and USA. Theory about Princess Diana's murder are also believed by numerous non-muslims in Europa. I may have been excessive in writing it's "nor fair or neutral" but IMHO it is to simplistic to relate conspiracy theory to some group as in the article. I don't deny that some theories are mostly believed by some groups but IMHO it should be precised as a comment after describing the theory instead of being emphasized as a title.
 * I believe it would be more interresting to devellop somewhere the idea that conspiracy theories can be instrumented by political groups. They often play a major role in tolitarian propanganda. IMHO it's obvious the nazi ideology is based upon a conspiracy theory, that's why I take this article so seriouly even if most of the argument in conspiracy theories are simply ridiculous.

 * I hope I haven't been to fuzzy, my english is not so good.

Ericd 14:21 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC)

--

I'm going to remove the riff about Quebec. Since it refers only to future events, it is not a conspiracy theory, but a conjecture about possible consequences of modern political actions. A conspiracy theory would be something like "the sovereignists are trying to ensure that Quebec/the ROC is swallowed by the States" or "the federalists are trying to drag us along into being swallowed by the States" or some such, that imputes a past or present action. - Montréalais

--

Okay, Wilsonians and X-Philes ... This subject is sufficiently important, culturally speaking, that disconnected lists of conspiracy topics aren't really adequate to explain it. I've taken a stab at writing a clear introduction and starting to turn this page from a list into an article. Anyone interested in taking a few of the topics and other messiness from the bottom of the page and summing them up into actual paragraphs composed of actual sentences would be greatly appreciated. --FOo

--

Dennis -- adding Kennedy next to Trotsky there is misleading. The point of mentioning Trotsky in that sentence is that Trotsky is uncontroversially known to have been assassinated by a government and not by a conspiracy: i.e. that not all assassinations are subject to conspiracy theory. Kennedy's assassination is a popular subject of conspiracy theory, and so it should be mentioned in this page, but not in that context. I'm moving it.

-

M149, if you're watching this page -- IMHO, the chief "reorg" this page needs is to have the material below the "needs encyclopediafying" line rewritten into summary paragraphs, and incorporated in an organized fashion into the section on subjects of conspiracy theory. Those are the ones which I didn't incorporate into my rewrite of the upper half of the page.

As the number of topics in that section increases it will need some form of subsection organization. Sadly, to the best of my knowledge there is no academic study of conspiracy theory to parallel the study of (for instance) urban legends, and so the categorization of subjects is of necessity rather ad hoc. I don't think this is avoidable, and we should probably avoid artificial categorization. --FOo -- "Another theory is that life on Earth or at least the human species was created by extraterrestials. This ancient astronaut theory has been promoted by Zecharia Sitchin and various religous cults."

Is it realy a conspiracy theory ? Not every stupid theory is a conspiracy theory.

By the way this is also believed by the Raelians -- Are conspiracy theories about JFK assassination so incredible ? I don't mean large theories involving (for instance) the mafia, the CIA, the Roman Catholic Church, Exxon and the Walt Disney company. But is it stupid to believe that there's no evidence that Oswald was acting alone ? Ericd

 * No, and we need to reorganize this article to properly separate the theories according to adherents. There's a body of conspiracy theories that is regarded as credible by people in the leftist/progressive political spectrum, and there is another body of CTs which are almost universally rejected except for a small, often heterogenous crowd of followers. The conspiracy theory claim is also frequently used by conservatives to discredit unwanted political claims, e.g. allegations of corruption. --Eloquence

I rewrite a phrase I have written before because I think it's worth to discuss :

"the idea that conspiracy theories can be instrumented by political groups. They often play a major role in tolitarian propanganda. IMHO it's obvious the nazi ideology is based upon a conspiracy theory." Ericd

 * 1) The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are probably the canonical example of cynical use of a conspiracy theory to advance political goals. Though written by the Russian secret police, the document later influenced Hitler. However, forging a document to fuel a huge anti-semitic movement and thus take the heat off the ruler is itself a conspiracy - a covert manipulation of world events by the powerful. So, regarding the Protocols, there are no non-conspiratorial positions.

Does this qualify as a conspiracy theory? According to Islam, the early Jewish leaders deliberately faked the contents of the Hebrew Bible, and the early Christian leaders deliberately faked the contents of the New Testament, in order to secure their own power and hide the true message of God. If this idea developed today, it would qualify as one. RK

I am more certain that this next idea does qualify as a conspiracy theory. Any comments? Within the Arab world there is the growing belief that the entire idea of a Biblical Jewish state is a hoax and a lie. According to a number of Arab writers, the entire history of the Jewish people in the Bible is an outright fiction, and that the progenitors of the Jewish people actually lived in Yemen or some other part of the Arabian peninsula. In this view, even the broad strokes of later Biblical book have had their historical correctness totally refuted. (This view, obviously, is rejected by the majority of the world's historians, archaeologists and Bible scholars.. While the details of the earlier books have been called into question, so serious historian disputes the fact that a Jewish nation of Israel did exist in the land of Israel.) RK

Examples:

 * "Jerusalem is not a Jewish city, despite the biblical myth implanted in some minds...There is no tangible evidence of Jewish existence from the so-called 'Temple Mount Era'...The location of the Temple Mount is in question...it might be in Jericho or somewhere else." (Walid M. Awad, Director of Foreign Publications for the PLO's Palestine Ministry of Information, interviewed by the IMRA news agency, Dec.25, 1996.)

 * A Palestinian tv show broadcast on PLO Television in June 1997 featured Palestinian Arab historian Jarid al-Kidwa. He claimed that "all the events surrounding Kings Saul, David and Rehoboam occurred in Yemen, and no Hebrew remnants were found in Israel, for a very simple reason--because they were never here." Al-Kidwa said: "Most of the Khazars [a Turkish tribe that converted to Judaism in medieval times] are the Ashkenazic Jews who arrived in Palestine. As Allah is my witness, in my blood flows more of the Children of Israel and the ancient Hebrews than in the blood of Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu."

 * According to the Israeli daily Ha'aretz (July 6, 1997), al- Kidwa also said: "The stories of the Torah and the Bible did not take place in the Land of Israel--they occurred in the Arabian peninsula, primarily in Yemen. The identity of our father Ibrahim [Abraham] who is mentioned in the Koran is clear. From the Koran's description of him it arises that he lived in the southern Hejaz [Saudi arabia], near Mecca."

 * Numerous Palestinian Authority textbooks for their children teach them that Jews and Chrisitans lie about being connected to the land of Israel. Here is one such example: "The Zionists turn[ed] their attention towards Palestine as the national homeland of the Jews, while relying on false historical and religious claims." From Modern Arab History and Contemporary Problems, Part Two, for Tenth Grade p. 50

 * When Palestinian Authority school books discuss sites of religious interest, Muslim as well as Christian sites are included but not Jewish. Even the Jews' connection to the remnant of their holiest site, the Western Wall of the Temple, is denied: "The Jews claim that this is one of the places belonging to them and call it "The Western Wall", but this is not so." From Reader and Literary Texts for Eighth Grade #578 p. 103. Their textbooks also claim that Jews have nothing to do with the Temple in Jerusalem: "Jerusalem: I have many Islamic holy places and antiquities. This is al-Aqsa Mosque and this is the Dome of the Rock...To the west of the holy mosque you can see a vast stone wall called 'al-Buraq Wall', [Western Wall of the Temple] to which the angel Gabriel, peace be upon him, tied the beast of the Prophet Muhammad on the night of his journey [to heaven]... As for my Christian holy places - the most famous of them are 'The Church of al-Qiama' [Holy Sepulchre-ed], next to the mosque of 'Umar ibn al Khatab, and the church of 'al-Juthmana' opposite al-Isbat Gate, outside the wall. From Palestinian National Education for Third Grade #529 P. 14.

 * The Palestine Ministry of Information issued, on Dec. 10, 1997, the follow statement. They claimed that a century's worth of archaeological excavations in the Old City of [[Jeruslaem" have found "Umayyad Islamic palaces, Roman runis, Armenian ruins and others, but nothing Jewish." The Ministry then claimed that "there is no tangible evidence of any Jewish traces / rremains in the old city of Jeruslaem and its immediate vicinity."

 * Kamal Salibi is a Lebanese Christian Arab, and historian of Lebanon, and is the author of the following books (all of which have been totally rejected by mainstream historians in the non-Arab world. Some scathing reviews are available for reading at the below website.)

 * http://www.cwo.com/~thowoods/asirref.htm

 * Salibi, Kamal, The Bible Came from Arabia, London, Jonathan Cape, Ltd., 1985.
 * Salibi, Kamal, Secrets of the Bible People, Brooklyn, N.Y., Interlink Books, 1988.
 * Salibi, Kamal, The Historicity of Biblical Israel, London, NABU Publications, 1998.

 * A Muslim website which accept Salibi's claims, The Islamic Comparative :Analysis Site. http://www.jamaat.net/index.htm

 * Al-Ahram weekly, an Egyptian publication, accepts this view :http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/1998/383/pal1.htm

 * Here are some critical reviews of Kamal Salibi's bizarre historical revisionism:
 * Beeston, A.F.L., Review of Salibi's The Bible Came from Arabia, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society (1988, pp. 389-93)
 * Cardinal, P., "La Bible et L'Arabie", Revue des Etudes Palestiniennes 26 (1986, pp. 63-70)
 * Dahlberg, Bruce. "Comments" in the Ancient Near East Digest, 1994.

This is not according to Islam, this is according to some Arabs. But read what I wrote above anti-semitism has something to do with conspiracy theories. What are "the protocols of the elders of Sion" if they're not a conspiarcy theory. Ericd 15:10 Apr 23, 2003 (UTC)

 * We should clarify. The Islamic view that the Jews and the Christians deceptively altered their own Bible is a part of mainstream Islam, and one of the core beliefs that supports Islamic supercessionism. This idea is based on statements in the Quran, and expanded upon in the Hadith.  However, as you point out, the belief that Jews never lived in ancient Israel is something that not all Arabs or Muslims believe; it is a very recent concpiracy theory. RK

 * The Protocols isn't a "conspiracy theory" -- it is a false document intended to support certain conspiracy theories which predated its own authoring. It is mentioned under false document, but of course should also be mentioned here. There are whole categories of antisemitic conspiracy theories which should be discussed in this article; however, when I was working out the "Subjects of conspiracy theory" section, I didn't have the stomach to address them. I still don't. --FOo

 * Sounds to me like the Elders of Zion had a plot to prevent you from writing about this... :) RK

 * =smirk= No, it's just that the blithe and descriptive tone (call it "amused NPOV")

-## amused NPOV is an oxymoron. \ I can manage for most conspiracy theory, I just don't know if I can do for the antisemitic trash that has led to so much hatred, so much terror. Perhaps it's that the expression "conspiracy theory" is to some extent inherently trivializing (hence its abuse by propagandists against dissent) and that sort of lie should be taken trivially. Technically it belongs, but I ain't writing it. --FOo
 * I would overall be more interested in this article as a discussion of the structure and function of conspiracy theories -- what they mean to people, what broad categories they cover, and how they interact with mainstream history -- than as another "List of" page. I hate "List of" pages. But that's probably just me. --FOo

I don't think this page meets the standard of presenting views as their advocates would present them. The notion that conspiracy theorists routinely cite the very absence of evidence of a claim as evidence is something you hear all the time on conspiracy-bashing sites, but many conspiracy theorists never say anything like this. See if any of the following conspiracy sites do this:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/ http://www.emperors-clothes.com/ http://www.globalresearch.ca/ http://www.questionsquestions.net/

There are also problems with defining conspiracy theories as "absurd". What happens when one turns out to be true? For example, for years and years, conspiracy theorists claimed that US intelligence agencies had recruited Nazi war criminals. In the late 80s, some bigwigs finally fessed up, and the story was documented in Christopher Simpson's book Blowback (1987, I believe). However, if it was not absurd to say this in 1987, it was not absurd in 1977.

In general, words that encapsulate a judgement into the definition of a thing are the hallmark of prejudicial language. They make it impossible to concieve of the thing independent of the preformed judgement. This, after all, is the difference between the words "African American" and the word "nigger". Both denote the same people - the literal meanings do not differ - but the latter encapsulates a (hostile) judgement into the very definition of those people.

Also, if you're going to bring up Popper, you should note that theories that events are the result of accident or coincidence are also not falsifiable; this, in fact, was exactly the issue Popper was grappling with. Any pattern you perceive could be the result of simple chance. For example, a scientist observes on several occassions that hydrogen fuses to helium and concludes that it always does. How can he prove logically that it doesn't sometimes fuse to oxygen, but it just didn't happen that way on the occasions he observed it? He can't. That's induction, which has no rigorous foundation in logic. Science simply postulates that the universe is consistent.

In this situation, the scientist is indeed in the position of the conspiracy theorist. He sees a pattern and wants to draw broader conclusions from it. But he can never offer definite proof. A doubter could always suspect it is all coincidence or that there are exceptions the scientists has not found (like miracles). That's where falsifiability comes in. A scientist's theory can be used to generate predictions, and, so long as these predictions are fulfilled, the theory can be accepted as provisionally true; we will assume it is true until it is proven false. The doubter cannot match this because his position can generate no predictions.

The problem with trying to apply this standard to conspiracy theory is that, while conspiracy theory fails at reliably generating correct predictions, so does every other mode of political or historical analysis. The tools that science has - controlled experiments and isolation of variables - are not available to those who study history. -Hieronymous

 * Indeed, many conspiracy theorists argue that the diagnosis of schizophrenia is sometimes used as a means of silencing political dissent. (See: anti-psychiatry)

The diagnosis of schizophrenia has been used as a means of silencing political dissent. Eg, Russia and sluggishly progressing schizophrenia. Fixing. Martin 12:42 17 May 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Conspiracy theory/Archive 1


text:
John Stevens (New Jersey politician)

John Stevens Jr. (c. 1715 – May 10, 1792) was a prominent colonial American landowner, merchant, and politician.

Early life
Stevens was born in 1715 at Perth Amboy in the Province of New Jersey in what was then British America. He was the son of John Stevens Sr., who came to America in 1699 at the age of 17 as an indentured clerk, and his wife Ann Campbell.

Career
With his brother Richard, he owned mercantile vessels and commanded them on voyages to Madeira and the Caribbean between 1739 and 1743. He then settled in Perth Amboy, where he was a vestryman at St. Peter's Church from 1749 to 1752. He was a large landowner in the New Jersey counties of Hunterdon, Union, and Somerset, and he owned a copper mine at Rocky Hill that was later abandoned.

Colonial politics
Stevens was a member of the New Jersey General Assembly in 1751. He served as paymaster of the 1st New Jersey Regiment (the "Jersey Blues") under Colonel Peter Schuyler from 1756 to 1760. In 1758, he was appointed by the Assembly of New Jersey to serve as a commissioner to the state's Indian tribes. In 1762, he was named a member of the New Jersey Provincial Council, a position that he resigned in 1770. Stevens was a vocal opponent of the Stamp Act. When the act went into effect in 1765, he was one of a committee of four (with Robert Livingston, John Cruger Jr., and Beverly Robinson) to prevent the issue of stamps in New York City. In 1770, he was appointed a commissioner, along with Walter Rutherfurd, to establish the partition line between New York and New Jersey.

Post-independence politics
In 1776, after the Provincial Congress had become the New Jersey Legislature under the state's first Constitution, Stevens was elected Vice-President of Council of New Jersey, holding the office of chairman of the joint meetings of the legislature until 1782, representing Hunterdon County. He was a delegate to the Continental Congress in 1784. He was president of the convention of New Jersey when the state ratified the United States Constitution on December 18, 1787.

Personal life
In 1748, he married Elizabeth Alexander (1720–1800), daughter of James Alexander (1691–1756), Surveyor General of New Jersey and New York and counsel for Peter Zenger, and Mary Spratt Alexander, a merchant in her own right. Together, they were the parents of two children:

 * John Stevens III (1749–1838), who married Rachel Cox, a descendant of the Langeveldts who originally settled New Brunswick, New Jersey. Rachel was the daughter of John Cox, Esq. of Bloomsbury, New Jersey, and the sister of Elizabeth Cox, who married Horace Binney.
 * Mary Stevens (1751–1814), who married Chancellor Robert R. Livingston (1746–1813), negotiator of the Louisiana Purchase.

His later years were spent with his son at Hoboken, where he died in May 1792. He was buried at the Frame Meeting House in Bethlehem Township, Hunterdon County, New Jersey.

Descendants
Through his son John, he was the grandfather of thirteen grandchildren, including John Cox Stevens (1785–1857), first commodore of the New York Yacht Club, Robert Livingston Stevens (1787–1856), the president of Camden and Amboy Railroad, James Alexander Stevens (1790–1873), Richard Stevens (1792–1835), Francis Bowes Stevens (1793–1812), Edwin Augustus Stevens (1795–1868), founder of Stevens Institute of Technology, Elizabeth Juliana Stevens (1797–1821), Mary Stevens (1799–1825), who was the first wife of Rear Admiral Joshua R. Sands, Harriet Stevens (1801–1844), who was the second wife of Joshua R. Sands, Esther Bowes Stevens (b. 1804), and Catherine Sophia Van Cortlandt Stevens (b. 1806).

title: John Stevens (New Jersey politician)


text:
Conch

Conch, ; is a common name of a number of different medium-to-large-sized sea snails. Conch shells typically have a high spire and a noticeable siphonal canal (in other words, the shell comes to a noticeable point on both ends).

In North America, a conch is often identified as a queen conch, indigenous to the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean. Queen conches are valued for seafood and are also used as fish bait. In the United States, a rule has been proposed to list the queen conch's conservation status as threatened.

The group of conches that are sometimes referred to as "true conches" are marine gastropod molluscs in the family Strombidae, specifically in the genus Strombus and other closely related genera. For example, Lobatus gigas, the queen conch, and Laevistrombus canarium, the dog conch, are true conches.

Many other species are also often called "conch", but are not at all closely related to the family Strombidae, including Melongena species (family Melongenidae) and the horse conch Triplofusus papillosus (family Fasciolariidae). Species commonly referred to as conches also include the sacred chank or shankha shell (Turbinella pyrum) and other Turbinella species in the family Turbinellidae. The Triton's trumpet (family Charoniidae) may also be fashioned into a horn and referred to as a conch.

Etymology
The English word "conch" is attested in Middle English, coming from Latin concha (shellfish, mussel), which in turn comes from Greek (same meaning)  ultimately from Proto-Indo-European root *konkho-, cognate with Sanskrit word śaṅkha.

General description
A conch is a sea snail in the phylum Mollusca. A conch shell has superior strength and is used as a musical instrument or decoration. It consists of about 95% calcium carbonate and 5% organic matter. The conch meat is edible.

Culinary use
The meat of conches is eaten raw in salads or cooked in burgers, chowders, fritters, and gumbos. All parts of the conch meat are edible.

Conch is indigenous to the Bahamas and is typically served in fritter, salad, and soup forms. It is also eaten in the West Indies (in The Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Jamaica in particular ); locals in Jamaica eat conch in stews, curries and other dishes. Restaurants all over the islands serve this particular seafood. In the Dominican Republic, Grenada, and Haiti, conch is commonly eaten in curries or in a spicy soup. It is locally referred to as lambi. In Puerto Rico, conch is served as a ceviche, often called ensalada de carrucho (conch salad), consisting of raw conch marinated in lime juice, olive oil, vinegar, garlic, green peppers, and onions. It is also used to fill empanadas.

In Panama, conch is known as cambombia and is often served as ceviche de cambombia, consisting of raw conch marinated in lime juice, chopped onions, finely chopped habaneros, and often vinegar.

Conch is very popular in Italy and among Italian Americans. Called sconcigli, it is eaten in a variety of ways, but most often in salads or cooked in a sauce for pasta. It is often included as one of the dishes prepared for the Feast of the Seven Fishes.

In East Asian cuisines, conch is often cut into thin slices and then steamed or stir-fried.

Eighty per cent of the queen conch meat in international trade is imported into the United States. The Florida Keys were a major source of queen conches until the 1970s, but the conches are now scarce and all harvesting of them in Florida waters is prohibited and individuals who have harvested them have been punished by law enforcement.

Festival
In the Turks and Caicos Islands, the Conch Festival is held in November each year at the Three Queens Bar/Restaurant in Blue Hills. Local restaurateurs compete for the best and most original conch dishes, which are then judged by international chefs. Other competitions, events, and music performances occur.

Musical instruments
Conch shells can be used as wind instruments. They are prepared by cutting a hole in the spire of the shell near the apex and then blowing into the shell as if it were a trumpet, as a blowing horn. Sometimes a mouthpiece is used, but some shell trumpets are blown without one. Pitch is adjusted by moving one's hand in and out of the aperture; the deeper the hand, the lower the note.

Various species of large marine gastropod shells can be turned into blowing shells, but some of the best-known species used are the sacred chank or shankha Turbinella pyrum, the Triton's trumpet Charonia tritonis, and the queen conch Strombus gigas.

One of the most famous musical instruments was found in the Marsoulas cave in the Pyrenees Mountains, in France, in 1932. CT scans showed how ancient humans adapted the Concho to make it a musical instrument, such as creating a mouthpiece that was held together by an organic matter like clay or wax. Researchers from the Sorbonne, together with a professional horn player, were able to use it again as a musical instrument and play it.

Examples of this practice in the Americas can be seen in the form of historical artifacts at the Museo Larco in Lima, Peru, and Museo Nacional de Antropología in Mexico City, Mexico.

Pearls
Many kinds of molluscs can produce pearls. Pearls from the queen conch, S. gigas, are rare and have been collectors' items since Victorian times. Conch pearls occur in a range of hues, including white, brown, and orange, with many intermediate shades, but pink is the colour most associated with the conch pearl, such that these pearls are sometimes referred to simply as "pink pearls". In some gemological texts, non-nacreous gastropod pearls used to be referred to as "calcareous concretions" because they were porcellaneous (shiny and ceramic-like in appearance), rather than nacreous (with a pearly luster). The Gemological Institute of America and World Jewellery Confederation now use the simple term "pearl"—or, where appropriate, the more-descriptive term "non-nacreous pearl"—for such items, and, under Federal Trade Commission rules, various mollusk pearls may be referred to as "pearls" without qualification.

Although not nacreous, the surfaces of fine conch pearls have a unique appearance. The microstructure of conch pearls comprises partly aligned bundles of microcrystalline fibers that create a shimmering, slightly iridescent effect known as flame structure. The effect is a form of chatoyancy, caused by the interaction of light rays with the microcrystals in the pearl's surface, and it somewhat resembles moiré silk.

Other uses

 * Conch shells are used as biologically grown calcium carbonate fertilizer.
 * Conch shells are sometimes used as decoration, as decorative planters, and in cameo making.
 * In the Aztec culture, the conch played an important role in rituals, war, art, music, mythology, festivals, and even the calendar.
 * In India, some artisans make souvenirs, deity idols and other crafts by carving natural conch shells by hands.
 * Conch shells have been used as shell money in several cultures.
 * Some American Aboriginals used cylindrical conch columella beads as part of breastplates and other personal adornment.
 * In India, the Bengali bride-to-be is adorned with conch shell and coral bangles called shakha paula. It is a traditional wedding ritual for every Bengali bride.
 * In India and Bangladesh, the conch is blown every day in the evening in Bengali houses as a daily ritual.
 * In some Afro-Caribbean and African-American cemeteries, conch shells are placed on graves.
 * In some Caribbean countries such as Jamaica and the Bahamas, cleaned queen conch shells, or polished fragments, are sold, mainly to tourists, as souvenirs or in jewellery. Responding to a 2003 recommendation from CITES, some countries in the Caribbean have banned the export of queen conch shells. CITES has also asked all countries to ban import of these shells from countries that are not complying with CITES recommendations for managing the fishery. Queen conch fisheries have been closed in several countries. Conch shells or fragments taken home by tourists from noncomplying countries may be confiscated on return to the tourist's home country while clearing customs. In the UK, conch shells are the 9th-most seized import.
 * Conch shells have been used as a building material since ancient times, and new research is being conducted, to replicate their material for practical uses such as bone replacement, and also in architecture, to construct stronger structures.
 * In Grenada, fishermen use the conch shell as a trombone to announce to the community that fish is available for sale. Conchs are used at carnival times in the Jouvert Jump where Diab Diab (Jab Jab) blow conch shells as part of the festivities. Especially in Guadeloupe, hearing conch shells being blown near ports at dawn and during Carnival times, too, is not uncommon. Many bands and trumpeters like Steve Turre are using the conch shell as an important instrument in their unique performances.
 * In the Caribbean, broken or up-turned conch shells are embedded into the tops of outdoor walls in an effort to maintain home security.
 * In Tamil Nadu, India, the conch horn is blown during funerals as an acoustic indication of the funeral and to ward off evil spirits.
 * In Key West, Florida, US, a native-born resident is affectionately called a "conch".
 * In Japan, a conch is horagai (or jinkai). It was used as a trumpet in special ceremonies such as a royal cremation during the Edo period.
 * Conch shells, (pu in Hawaiian) have been historically used as a method of communication, a tradition that is still observed in parts of modern life in Hawai'i.

Ancient Peru
The Moche people of ancient Peru worshipped the sea and often depicted conch shells in their art.

Aztec
Quetzalcoatl, the Mexican god of wind and learning, wears around his neck the "wind breastplate" ehecailacocozcatl, "the spirally voluted wind jewel" made of a conch shell. Blowing a conch was considered a religious act.

Hinduism

A shankha shell (the shell of a T. pyrum, a species in the gastropod family Turbinellidae) is often referred to in the West as a conch shell or a chank shell. This shell is used as an important ritual object in Hinduism. The shell is used as a ceremonial trumpet, as part of religious practices, for example puja. The chank trumpet is sounded during worship at specific points, accompanied by ceremonial bells and singing. As it is an auspicious instrument, it is of purity and brilliance (Om, Devas, Brahman the Almighty Supreme creator, referred to in mantras, the Gayatri mantra explains a meditation on the brilliance of the sun), it is often played in a Lakshmi puja in temple or at home.

In the story of Dhruva, the divine conch plays a special part. The warriors of ancient India blew conch shells to announce battle, as is described in the beginning of the war of Kurukshetra, in the Hindu epic the Mahabharata.

The god of preservation, Vishnu, is said to hold a special conch, Panchajanya, that represents life, as it has come out of life-giving waters. According to Hindu mythology, Devas (gods) and Asuras (demons) once decided to churn the ocean to get a special divine nectar. This divine nectar, also known as amrit, was known to give immortality to whoever drank it. All the gods were on one side of it and the demons were on the other end. The churning (samudra manthan) produced a number of things from the ocean. One of the first things to come out of it was lethal poison called halahala. Everyone was terrified, as the poison was potent enough to destroy entire creation, so they went to Lord Shiva for protection and he consumed the poison to safeguard the universe. Lord Shiva took the poison in his mouth, but did not swallow it. Shankha also was one of divine objects that was obtained from samudra manthan.

Also, the sound of the conch is believed to drive away the evil spirits.

The blowing of the conch or "the shankha" needs a tremendous power and respiratory capacity. Hence, blowing it daily helps keep the lungs healthy.

A newlywed Bengali bride wears bangles called shakha paula, made from coral and conch-shell powder. They have been a part of Bengali custom and tradition. In an ancient era, the Bengali farming community is thought to have resided near the river. They collected conch shells and powdered them to create bangles. They also used red coral for the bangles. They gave these beautiful bangles to their wives, as they could not afford ivory bangles. They were also known as poor-man's ivory, as they were cheap substitute for ivory bangles.

Literature and the oral tradition

 * In the Hindu tradition, the conch shell is used in ceremony as the sound it makes is said to correspond with higher frequency universal sounds associated with music of the spheres.

title: Conch


text:
Talk:Han (Warring States)

untitled
Wasn't this a holdover the Han dynasty? Jiang 19:41, 6 Aug 2003

 * unfortunately no, the state of Han was an independent political entity. kt2 22:30, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I think King An and King Fei listed in the article is the same person: King Fei. Hanfresco 09:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Zi
The generation before 韓厥 is Hanyu(韩舆) son of Han Jian(韩简，韩定伯) is son of Han Qiubo (韓赇伯) is son of Hanwan (韓万,韩武子) is son of Quwo Huanshu（曲沃桓叔）,this line come from The Book of Lineages (世本).Do you want to translate them to Earl and Viscount?

So long,but the main idea is Bo and Zi means someone is the head of his family.
 * “据我们对现有文献记载调查，在一个同氏集团内，大体上只有继位为大宗的人才称“伯”或“子”. 比如鲁国季孙氏的季文子、季武子、季悼子、季平子、季桓子、季康子等，皆季孙氏大宗. 孟孙氏的孟穆伯、孟孝伯、孟武伯和叔孙氏的叔孙戴伯、叔孙宣伯亦分别是孟孙氏和叔孙氏大宗. 因此子服氏的诸“伯”，亦同孟穆伯、孟孝伯、孟武伯、叔孙戴伯、叔孙宣伯、臧哀伯等一样，是子服氏集团大宗的称号”——谢维扬《周代家庭形态》ISBN:7-207-06426-8

—星光下的人 (talk) 14:50, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 星光下的人，我读了一些文献. 所读的和你说的符合，所以这篇文章也相对的转回你当时的贡献. 古韩国在被晋国灭以前，是侯爵. 之后，在晋国当差. 韩厥开始，成为晋国卿大夫. 直到三家分晋才被周王封侯.
 * Translation: I did some reading. The reading suggests that after the 'old' state of Han was destroyed, the Han family was no longer a hereditary noble family (zhuhou). Only after the Partition of Jin did they become zhuhou again. I have reverted my revert accordingly.

Hanfresco (talk) 22:57, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Date
资治通鉴第六卷： 始皇帝十七年（辛未，公元前二三○年） 1　内史〔腾〕(胜)灭韩

Since Zizhi Tongjian says Han was destroyed in 230BC, I'm going to revert your edit. Hanfresco (talk) 10:17, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Hann?
Hi Barefact, I'm just wondering where this "Hann" popped up from in the State of Han article?. It doesn't fit with either pinyin or Wade-Giles and I have never seen it in any publication. Best Philg88 (talk) 03:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * M. Loeuwe, E.L. Shaughnessy, eds, The Cambridge History of Ancient China: From the Origins of Civilization to 221BC, p. 960 etc: Hann 韓; also look up the index there. Also, see for example Qin Shi Huang in WP, it is already there, I only brought it up to disamb and header for consistency. Barefact (talk) 09:34, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well I don't trust The Cambridge History of Ancient China as it contains mistakes. For example, Hai Rui is referred to as Hai Jui which is totally wrong. Since Hanfresco seems to agree with me that "Hann" does not exist (he reverted your edit in the State of Han article), I thing we need a second source. Best Philg88 (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I am looking from the standpoint of a person who is looking for information on a subject and can't find it directly. What spelling is used as a primary is irrelevant if you can google and locate information directly, as the encyclopedia is supposed to provide, instead of making you to run in circles. The question is not what is right, because there is no absolute right, but what is used in the literature and need to be understood by people who can't argue the finer points of either side right and wrong. There is no reason to hide relevant spelling, unless one wants to hide something in pursuit of an agenda.
 * Also, there is an element of timing, the older literature used exclusively Hai Jui, and a good portion keeps using it, even though pinyin came about and arbitrarily changed historically stable English forms, which is the case with Hai Rui and Hai Jui. Without getting into the politics of the issue, I think we should provide the reader with both forms, without trying to advocate right or wrong for either side of the issue. It is English-language literature that uses Hai Jui, what's wrong with using English in English WP? Checking " "Hann state" China " on Google gives plenty of secondary "Hann" usages in English literature, if you need a second source. But anyway, thank you for asking, many useful and valid things get deleted on a whim without asking. Barefact (talk) 23:56, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand your point of view and I certainly have no agenda other than to ensure that Wikipedia is accurate. That Hai Jui is used in English literature so it's acceptable is a fallacious argument. Hai Jui is just plain wrong - the 瑞 of 海瑞 has no "Jui" equivalent Chinese pronouncation. The same goes for Hann - there is no double "n" sound in the Chinese language. Using your argument, anyone could just make up their own romanisations as many people did in the past leading to no end of confusion.Philg88 (talk) 00:07, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Hi Barefact, firstly, I appreciate your effort in thinking from the standpoint of those looking for information. However considerate your intentions, I fail to see your point: Google "Hann State China" and the first result points to Han (state). I also do not see any ambiguities between Han and Han, as was the concern of the authors your source. The former is always mentioned in terms of State or Kingdom, while the latter is always mentioned in terms of Empire or Dynasty. Those authors should instead concern themselves with Han and Han (spring and autumn), another state which existed between 1000BC-700BC (This one uses the same character 韩!). After all, their history supposedly covers up to 221BC, which covers both State of Han's existences and excludes the more well known Han Dynasty. Finally, there is no need for Wikipedia to list all alternates, considering "Chung Kuo" is not in China.Hanfresco (talk) 09:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Dear Hanfresco and Phil, I did not hear a single argument to justify deletion of useful English form of the name, nor in favor of the absence of such a name in WP in a direct unambiguous format. The only argument was that "Hann" does not exist in English, and it does exist in scholarly works in English, as I have shown to anybody's satisfaction. Unless deletion is justified by a scholarly reference proving that the word does not exist, the deletion was done on a personal whim. Barefact (talk) 01:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The arguments are very simple and laid about above: 1)The "nn" sound does not exist in the Chinese languages 2) Accepted (or standard) Romanisations should be used. 3) Arbitary words (see Hanfresco's Chung-kuo above) should be avoided. Best Philg88 (talk) 02:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * These arguments do not apply: 1) Chinese phonetics does not rule English scientific terminology 2) English terminology does not need Romanisation, we do not need Romanised Chinese name for "China", because English already has a term for "China" for scientific and laymen use 3) English Sinology is about 200 years old, and has many words that could be spelled differently, like Shaanxi, which also does not conform to the Chinese Romanisation scheme, but it is used in English in spite of its initial arbitrary origin. The alternate spelling "Hann" is not a new invention, it is a fact of English terminology, as illustrated by time-honored scholarly publications in English, the WP is full of alternate spellings given to create a reliable source of information. We are not reinventing English, just reporting facts supported by credible references. Barefact (talk) 08:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Barefact, there is not much to add. Unless you can show all published names for all articles on Wikipedia are listed, I fail to see why you keep pushing for the usage of Hann here, especially when Hann has insignificant usage like other names that have been thrown out over the evolution of the English language. Have you ever read Shakespeare? If you had you would notice many differences in spelling between Shakespearean English and modern English. If you spelled your words like they do in Shakespeare in an essay today, you would not be looked at as a scholar. You would be looked at as an a guy who can't spell. Hanfresco (talk) 09:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Other things Han unmentioned except for one that shouldn't be.
Nobody is going to confuse one of the Warring states with the modern South Korea. The relation to the dynasty, ethnicity, etc. however is glaring in its omission. 72.228.189.184 (talk) 15:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Ruler names
星光下的人, 你根本没读我留的言. 我让你看的是吴语维基的参考. 吴语维基的参考是寒山碧著的韩氏三千年. 我再次撤销你的贡献. Translation: you clearly did not read what I wrote. I said read the REFERENCE of the Wu wiki page. If you had, you would notice the Wu wiki referenced a book called "Han Shi San Qian Nian" by Han Shanbi. I will once again undo your edit. Hanfresco (talk) 07:50, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * 我可以告诉你那本书是本族谱，不是可靠来源. 史记、战国策、世本、竹书纪年都没有记载那几代韩国君主的名字，可以了吗？I tell you 韩氏三千年 is a Genealogy book,that is not identifying reliable source, all of Records of the Grand Historian,Zhan Guo Ce,The Book of Lineages,Bamboo Annals are not recorded those monarch's name,OK?——星光下的人 (talk) 10:29, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * 星光下的人 is right on this one. The names of several Han rulers are not recorded in history.  However, I would suggest that you state your reason in the edit summary when removing content, otherwise people may misunderstand your action as vandalism.  --Zanhe (talk) 20:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, fair enough. Hanfresco (talk) 01:38, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chen (state) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:59, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Shen Buhai military reform source
While Shen Buhai is known, on a tertiary basis, for defensive reforms, the source for Shen Buhai's military reforms in this article sources https://brill.com/display/book/edcoll/9789004201644/B9789004201644_002.xml

I don't see how this source relates with Shen Buhai. As the writer for Shen Buhai, I would be interested in locating the relevant source. I don't immediatly how this source pertains to it. It says "Ancient and Early Medieval Chinese Literature (vol. 2)". I will attempt to check this source. If it is located there I will delete this comment.FourLights (talk) 21:50, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 26 February 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover)  ❯❯❯  Raydann  (Talk)   18:44, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Han (state) → Han (Warring States) – Dab from other uses at Han (disambiguation). * Pppery * it has begun... 16:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support unlike to be enough for a PADB[].  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:46, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dubious
I've tagged the sentence Qi to the east as dubious because the map of the Warring States clearly show that Chu is to both the south and east of Han. Banedon (talk) 06:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Han (Warring States)


text:
JumpStart Games

JumpStart Games, Inc., formerly Knowledge Adventure, Inc., was an American edutainment video game company based in Torrance, California. Founded in 1991, it was acquired by Chinese holding company NetDragon Websoft in 2017.

History
From 1991 to 1994, Knowledge Adventure created DOS games.

Purchase by CUC International
On November 5, 1996, CUC International announced that it would acquire Knowledge Adventure; the acquisition was completed on February 3, 1997. In February 1996, CUC had acquired Davidson & Associates; this subsidiary was later merged with Knowledge Adventure in October 1998.

On May 28, 1997, CUC International announced plans to merge with Hospitality Franchise Systems to create a single, "one-stop" entity. The merger was finalized in December that year and created Cendant. As a result of the merger, CUC Software was renamed Cendant Software. On November 20, 1998, French media company Havas (later acquired by water utility Vivendi) announced that it would acquire Cendant Software for US$800 million in cash and up to US$200 million contingent on the performance of Cendant Software. Subsequently, the division was renamed Havas Interactive.

During that time, Knowledge Adventure released many branded games such as JumpStart, Dr. Brain, Fisher-Price, Barbie, Bear in the Big Blue House, Blaster, Teletubbies, Noddy, Jurassic Park III, Captain Kangaroo, Curious George and American Idol.

Knowledge Adventure released JumpStart Baby in 2000.

Separation from Vivendi
In October 2004, Vivendi sold Knowledge Adventure to a group of investors interested in taking a more active management strategy, and in developing new educational software. The company released new products under both the JumpStart and Math Blaster brands.

In October 2012, Knowledge Adventure changed its name to JumpStart Games.

On March 17, 2014, JumpStart Games purchased Neopets from Viacom.

On July 7, 2017, JumpStart Games was acquired by Chinese online game publisher NetDragon Websoft.

Back-catalog digital re-releases
On November 25, 2014, five Knowledge Adventure titles were re-released digitally as DRM-Free exclusives on ZOOM-Platform.com through a partnership between JumpStart Games and the Jordan Freeman Group. The five titles included 3D Body Adventure, 3D Dinosaur Adventure, Dinosaur Adventure (Original), Space Adventure, and Undersea Adventure.

On March 6, 2015, another Knowledge Adventure title, Bug Adventure, was re-released digitally as a DRM-Free exclusive on ZOOM-Platform.com. This title was also released through the partnership between JumpStart and the Jordan Freeman Group. ZOOM-Platform.com indicated the game was released due to the "incredible reaction" they got to the first batch of Knowledge Adventure titles.

Closure and transfer of Neopets
On June 13, 2023, Jumpstart Games announced it was ceasing all of its operations and ending support of all games, excluding Neopets, on June 30, 2023. The company officially closed July 1, 2023 at 3am EST with servers and their website also shutting down. No reason upon the closure was given.

Neopets was briefly transferred over to Fluffy Dog Studios, which was formerly JumpStart Vancouver, before being spun off as World of Neopia, Inc. in a management buyout deal.

title: JumpStart Games