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Talk:English language/Archive 1

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Hmm. There's not a lot of those that I for one didn't recognise (in fact, only one, the usage of the Dutch loan word kill). But then I'm Cornish and have a pretty extensive vocabulary. Most of the yiddish terms would be in relatively common usage in London, including a plethora which didn't get included. Most British people know sauerkraut (it's the root of the WWII nickname for Germans: Krauts). The Spanish loan words usually turn up in movies, and I think we all know the words of the Eagles' song. sjc - Let's hear it for good old American "cultural imperialism". You didn't think the English had a monopoly on that, did you? The question should be, not whether you recognize the word, but whether an ordinary speaker of British English ever uses the words. Americans find cole slaw or sauerkraut at every picnic and at any restaurant billed as American or family cuisine. Many Americans would think that a donkey is an extinct or maybe European farm animal quite different from our native wild burros. Those of us who watch British television programming (common on American public broadcasting and Canadian commercial broadcasting) are familiar with many Britisicms but we don't use them as part of our own everyday language.

The Yiddish words came into American English mainly through vaudeville and early Hollywood. How they got to British I can't say. I took these words from academic sources on American English and don't claim to speak British English, either high or low. Do the British ever use "run" to mean crick, I mean, creek?

I feel compelled to point out that I eat fresh homemade sauerkraut here in Russia all the time, a lot more than I did in the U.S. They just don't call it "sauerkraut" here. :-) --LMS

On the American cultural imperialism front, I suspect that the British have picked up the use of "sauerkraut" from the Germans. I could of course be wrong, but I suspect that we imported in along with the food.

Sauerkraut is not uncommon in the UK, although its not that common either Coleslaw is extremely common, both at picnics, and in many curry houses.

This is to my mind a separate point from dialectic differences between American and British. We don't use the word sauerkraut that much because we don't eat that much sauerkraut. On the other hand we never eat zucchinis although we do eat quite a few courgettes. Likewise celentero(sp?) and eggplant for instance. We take our chips back to the shop if they are cold, give our school children rubbers to take to school, and would never ever admit to having fallen on our fannies, particularly not if we are male.

PL - We have a list of words on British English that are common in Britain but not America. What we need is a list that are common in America but not Britain. Any good ideas? -rmhermen - The best reference that I know of is at http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/dict.html. I don't know what the copyright is though. Other than that there are at least four Americanisms in my last paragraph. Feel free to use them.

I'd like to point out that the explanation given for why English has such a tenuous connection between spelling and pronunciation is insufficient. Many other languages faced the same situation with the advent of the printing press and also borrow words without changing their spelling. German is a good example. The reason that German and other languages are easier to spell is that they have had spelling reforms. Why there haven't been any spelling reforms in the UK and the US is hard to tell. German is also spoken in more than one country so that's not a valid argument.

People often try to explain different writing systems by pointing out certain properties of a given language, but in fact, this is often based on misunderstandings and so on. Chinese has homophones, but does it really have more than say English? (Most people often think of words with different tones as homophones, but that seems like rather unlinguistic to do so.) Writing systems are used due to tradition and other ideologies, and not or certainl not only due to the features of a language. Of course, there is often - or at least it seems that there is - a connexion between writing system and language, but we have to be careful about that. A certain amount of essentialism is probably what human beings need - especially if they're gonna write an encyclopedia - but still, be careful. Oh yeah, and all languages are complex - there aren't languages who are more complex than others. Wathiik

It's a stretch to say that there have been no spelling reforms in English. Or, perhaps I misunderstand what is meant by spelling reforms--the differences in American English and British English, for instance, are in part due to the simplified spellings used in the former (colour vs color, etc.). Perhaps "formalized spelling reforms" are meant--but in that case, I don't know who would undertake them, as English has no equivalent to the Academie Français (does German?).

In any case, I'm wondering how to constitute a page to use as a reference when questions of alternate spellings or word use arise. I just created the page for gasoline and made petrol a redirect to it. I'd like to be able to insert a little reference like this | 1 to indicate that at least some of us are *already* aware that the American words and spellings aren't the only words and spellings, and that the reason something like gasoline/petrol has been entered the way it is is because an American English speaker got to it first, and that's the way he approached it, which should be no surprise to anyone and no cause for consternation or offense, or at least, no offense was intended, and every reasonable effort was made to accomodate such differences, etc. etc. etc.

--dja

The two forms of English are more correctly known as American English and International English.

See http://www.ielts.org for more details.
 * You seem to be reading "International English Language Testing System" as "(International English) Language Testing System", while I would read it as "International (English Language Testing System)". Do you have any source for it being classified by linguists (and theirs is the classification that counts) that way? -- Simon J Kissane

Unfortunately the absence of International English as page (while the search engine was down) caused me to create pages for International English and American English. Oops. These pages probably should be deleted and the pre-existing "British English" page renamed.

When was banque used in British English? (Quebec is not in Britain.) When was arguement used in British English? Information should be removed if it's just plain wrong. --Zundark

 * "...correctly called International English" By Who??? Americans? (This is said with a :), btw). Does anyone outside of America group non-US English forms in this way? I've certainly never encountered it. Isn't your usage of the term 'international' effectively the same as 'non-American' here, and hence subject to charges of bias?

 * Also, the English spoken in Canada is substantially different to the English spoken/used in Australia, yet you are grouping them together. BTW - I'm writing some revisions off-line and will upload them later. But if you can provide me with a resource that supports your grouping approach, I would be (quite genuinely) glad to read it. Warm regards, Manning

 * It is not a grouping for all non-American English but instead for the English used by the British Commonwealth. See Google for discussions of International English and you'll find that people repeatedly prove it's existance there.  International English reflects the fact that *formal* English as used in the British Commonwealth is no longer owned exculsively by the British and reflects a wider language group.  Contemporary English usage is much more divergent and this is what I feel the individual Australian English and Canadian English pages should be for.

 * discussion continued at talk:International_English

I don't have any sources at my fingertips, but I believe that it is generally believed to be the case that the Norman conquest left little impact on the vocabulary of the English language, which continued to be spoken by most people outside the court. My understanding is that the vast majority of French loan words entered the English language in the Middle Ages, long after the Norman conquest.

I'd always heard that the three tribes that invaded Britain were the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes, not Angles, Saxons, and Friesians. Unless somebody can give me a good reason not to, I'm changing this RSN.

-Ben Brumfield

A recent paper showed that native speakers of English are more prone to be noticeably dyslexic than native speakers of Italian, probably because Italian is more forgiving. Brain scans show similar levels of difficulty processing written English and written Italian, but fewer Italians have enough trouble that they, their families, or their teachers notice it. (Not sure how to put this into the main page.) Vicki Rosenzweig

Moving debate from the Scientific Method/Talk page to this one:

A petty distinction - The grammatically correct expression is "A hypothesis" and not "An hypothesis". We are speaking English, not French. The affectation of applying French modifiers to fully-absorbed latinate words is a pretentious British habit. You only use the "an" when the "h" is silent, as in "hour" and "honour". You use "a" when the sound is consonant (eg. house, hotel, history, european, uniform). Unless you are pronouncing it as "eye-pothesis" (which I hope you are not) then use the correct indefinite article. See - http://www.edufind.com/english/grammar/Determiners3.cfm

Except for the fact that since the term has been used, it has traditionally (more formally) used "an". "Pretention" doesn't come into it, particularly if you consider what the word means http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=%20pretentious

Who cares? This is like the "data is/data are" arguments. For the record, "data is" works just fine in contemporary usage, and I am not alone in my opinion. Manning, have you a bias 'ere? :)

Definitely - NPOV applies to affectations employed solely to humiliate the less-well educated.

This is a topic of my research - English language evolution. The affectation of using an instead of 'a' emerged during the mid-19th century as the result of a cultural cringe in England - it was very fashionable to use French inflection and vocabulary. Hence the British use the words 'courgette' and aubergine' instead of the 'zucchini' and 'egglant' used by everyone else. There is absolutely no grammatical justification for it, it was purely a trait usd by the upper classes to distinguish themslves from the "masses". Meanwhile in the majority of the english-speaking world the "pure" grammar was maintained. A lot of the British criticism about "American" abuse of the language is completely unfair - all evidence indicates that the american useage of english is a lot more "authentic" than that spoken by the British upper classes. (I'm australian by the way, not American so I hope I will not be accused of bias)

So unless you can grammtically justify the usage (which I do not believe is possible) then I will actively campaign against it. An affectation used by a tiny minority of the population (so far you have only cited philosophers and academics) should not be permitted in the Wikipedia. - MB

PS - "data is" - "data are" is less definite, as english grammar permits both to exist. It depends on whether or not data is a plural form (like boxes, cattle) or as a singular form (like "information"). The ambiguous meaning permits ambiguous grammar.

 * Well! Finally we can have a perfectly meaningless a/an squabble, for a change ;)

 * MB, your explanation of "an hypothesis" seems very fishy to me, because the OED includes a citation of "an hypothesis" dating to 1678.

 * It seems that there's a better, and more logical, explanation, based on the fact that in British English the word may be pronounced both as hai-pothesis and hi-pothesis. The second form will naturally take "an" in more traditional written English, as witness numerous examples of "an history" in various centuries, not just the 19th. In pronunciation of such words, "an" is phonetically justified by the fact that the consonant h is rapidly pronounced or even glossed over, when the article is joined to the word.

 * I think that "an hypothesis" is justified, but so is "a hypothesis" and I like it better ;)

 * --AV

Nicely put - especially the OED reference. In any case, this argument is truly meaningless. I was originally more miffed at MB's use of the word 'pretentious' for an individual who used/uses the "an". John Lynch

John - to prove that I'm not just talking from opinion, here are some research notes which explain where the misuse came from in the first place.

(assembled from various sources)

The "a" vs. "an" dispute.

All textbooks of English grammar present the rules for the choice of the indefinite article as follows:

1- Nouns or adjective beginning with a consonant sound - use "a"

Examples: A house, A car, A dog, A happy event, A high place, a frantic pace.

This includes words beginning with vowels that have the hard "Y" sound: A union, A european, A utopian existence.

2- Nouns or adjective beginning with a vowel sound - use "an"

Examples: An apple, an entrance, an ignorant person, an opening, an unkind word.

This includes words beginning with consonants but that have a vowel sound, such as the mute "h" An hour ('our), an honour ('onour).

(my note) OK - those are the rules. Please refer to any text of grammar if there are any uncertainties. (end note)

Now it is known that some people pronounce the "hard h" using the vowel indefinite. Exactly where did the habit of saying "an historic event", "an hypothesis" actually come from?

The etymology and history of these words needs to be traced. Words that derive from Germanic or Middle English such as "house", "high" and "huge" have all safely preserved their "hard status". It is only with words that entered the language from French since 1500 that this inflection is used. We shall focus on "historic" and "hypothesis" as two prime examples. (NB - I added hypothsis as an example, it was not in the original)

Dictionary references for "historic" and "hypothesis" data back to 1607 and 1678 respectively, and in each case they are expressly presented using the "an" article. The justification for this is that at that time the words were relatively new to the language, and were most likely still being pronounced with the "soft h" sound of the original French. However, as the language fully absorbed the words the written "h" was implemented with most of these words ("hour" and "honour" being the 2 exceptions, the "h" remaining silent.) The written usage of the word with the hard article "a" began to appear in early 1700, indicating that the pronunciation had changed. By the mid-1700s the usage of the hard modifier was consistent.

In the mid-1800s a reversal began to emerge in upper class and academic circles, probably linked to a 'continentalism', and a French pronunciation was adopted for several (otherwise fully anglicised) words, notably "hotel" (became 'otel), "restaurant" (became "restorohng" with the French nasality). It is likely that "historic" became "ee-stor-eek" at this time, in accordance with the French "historique". With this pronunciation, the vowel indefinite "an" is warranted.

However the pronunciation reverted (again!) to the English form in England by the turn of the century (in the colonies there is no evidence it ever changed). However, among the academic classes, the habit of associating these words with the vowel-indefinite persisted, probably as the result of reading academic works that were written by authors who used an alternate pronunciation. This persists to the present day, but only within the "educated" classes. This is grammatically incorrect, you do not use the vowel article with the consonant sound. Properly one should either adopt the vowel pronunciation ('istoric') or use the hard article (a).

There is one other case where the vowel modifier is used - there are a number of vernacular modes of the language where the 'h' is "dropped" to produce an 'ouse, an 'orrible person. This vernacular usage is grammatically incorrect in every way, but is unlikely to change.

Nice notes, MB!

However, I still disagree with this picture. Here're some arguments to back me up.

First, if what you say about the hard h in "historic" having been universal by the mid-1700s, we shouldn't expect to find "an historic" from middle 1700s to middle 1800s. However, the OED lists "an historic" in 1762-1771, and "an historical romance" in a Jane Austen novel; yet another "an historical" is dated to 1834. "An hypothesis" is found several times in the late 18th century and once in 1827.

I do not dispute your explanation of the fashionable Frenchified pronunciation which dropped the aitches in words like "historic" and "hypothesis". But you say it yourself: this started after the 1850-s. Since there seem to be plenty of an-s before that, we have three options to explain them:

1. These were learned spellings imitating genuine "an"-s from the 17th and the 18th centuries. This explanation is rather unlikely. 2. Some people continued to drop their aitches completely in "historic" and "hypothesis" throughout the 18th and the 19th centuries, and they wrote "an-". Well, while whole dialects definitely dropped aitches completely, it's doubtful that many educated people did, and they were probably especially careful not to do that in writing, since preserving aitches has been the shibboleth of good taste in English society throughout the 19th century and for some time before that. 3. People pronounced aitches in these words, but dropped them in combinations with "an", in rapid pronuncitation; thus "historic" but "anistoric moment", and similarly with "hypothesis". This is the explanation I believe to be correct, and it provides the justification for "an hypothesis" and "an historic" in spelling -- as the traditional form. Note also my previous remark on this page on the pronunciation of "hypothesis" with initial [i] which allows for h-dropping.

As some additional evidence for my point of view, consider this quote from Jespersen's A Modern Englsh Grammar..., the phonetics volume. The quote comes from the description of the transitional period between the 18th and the 19th centuries:

Initial h before a weakly stressed vowel, as in historical, hibernal, Hibernia, Hungarian, etc. is often made silent in common words when they are not immediately preceded by a pause: some historical paintings /svm istorikl peintingz/; but Historical plays /historikl pleiz/ (Thus Grandgent for American pronunciation). This accounts for the widely spread use of an (instead of a) in such cases, which is recommended by many authors whom one could not suspect of dropping their h's in other cases. (emphasis mine).

--AV

yes AV - there is nothing quite so fun as a raging dispute about something so trivial as to be laughable! (Actually in light of the real events in the world at the moment, I can't think of anything I'd rather do... it's considerably less depressing than arguing about anthrax or terrorism). Actually I can't think of any arguments to dispute what you've presented, except for the compelling argument that ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY FRENCH SHOULD BE AVOIDED!!! (bloody frogs). It is a well known fact that the French are 'orrible little gits - in fact that should be a Wikipedia article... I can't understand how it's been avoided so far. For reference see: - there - incontrovertible proof :)

 * you're right, what can I say? - it is a winning argument ;) Down with the froggies and down with 'an hypothesis'!

 * (and thanks for the great link that had me in stitches) --AV
 * AV - hahaha - thanks for the link in Self-reference!

As the original perpetrator of "an hypothesis" in the article in question, let me say that my own use is based simply on what sounds better to my ear and is easier to pronounce. CMS rules allow the option here: words beginning with a pronounced "h" in an unstressed syllable can take either "a" or "an". "A historic..." is hard to pronounce without secondary stress on the first syllable, or an awkward glottal stop, or losing the distinctive "i" sound. "An historic" alleviates these problems, at the cost of sounding a bit snobby. "A hypothesis" isn't as bad, but if I choose to use "an historic" I should be consistent, so I choose to use "an" for all these cases. I generally prefer American and Anglo-Saxon usage on most things, but when the latinate usage makes sense for other reasons, I see no reason to avoid it; wanting to sound middle class is no less shallow than wanting to sound upper class. --LDC

It is my understanding that the Chicago Manual of style specifically addresses the question of "an historic" and it rejects it. I don't know if any American style guide that considers it acceptable or not, but I would actually be surprised if any did. I don't know what is considered acceptable in British English or some other variant of English.

The reference to Ebonics seemed to be singling out one specific American subdialect, so I changed it to refer to other sub-varieties as well. Also the term "Ebonics" was not originally derisive in origin (its proponents coined the term, if I am not mistaken).

At the risk of ressurecting an old debate, I want to address the grouping issue. I've been quietly researching this for weeks now and I think we are going about the taxonomy of English all wrong.

First of all, there is no such thing as "Standard English" - I think everyone agrees on that. What we need to do is distinguish between "orthographical systems" and "spoken variants". Now OED, Fowler's Usage, American Heritage all identify two orthographical systems: "American" and "British". (One reference identified "American" and "Traditional" but if I were American that would annoy me). I propose that we use those terms in accordance with the respected authorities.

Then we have the spoken variants, and they are what they are - I fail to see why they need to be grouped at all. The current system refers to "US, Australian, South African, Canadian, etc" English.

Are people happy with the ideas of an article (or two) on orthography that clearly distinguishes the two variants (wntitled Written American English and Written British English), and all the other pages deal with the spoken variant subject (noting which orthographical variant is in common use).?

The current pages on Commonwealth English and International English can be cut back and cross-referenced to the orthographical pages, as they are really only terms used in the computer industry to describe the orthographical variants (and they are inaccurate, as Canada is part of the commonwealth) - MMGB

I essentially agree with you, but I do think that the spoken languages can be grouped if we wanted to. The spoken variants of Canadian English and American English, for example, are similar enough that they could get grouped into the same category. Somewhere in one of the Talk sections of the myriad English language articles, I posted a quote from the book "The World's Major Languages" that grouped the spoken language into two broad cateogires. However, I don't have any great attachment to creating articles on these broad spoken categories of the language, which are probably somewhat vague. --Egern.

Should we put loanwords from French? They apparently are countless. -- Taku 00:32 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

The Middle Ages are generally reckoned to have reached England around the time of the Norman Conquest - well after the beginnings of the language were brought there.

Also, is that excerpt from the American Declaration of Independence accurate and verbatim, or has someone "tidied" it up for modern Americans? The reason I wonder is that the standard date format until very recently - in both countries - was one that called that date "the fourth of July" (which is why it remains in use over there as a standard phrase). The reason it matters, why wanting the original form counts in this text, is that it is serving as an example of the language of that time and place. If it isn't one, it's actually wrong for the purpose intended. PML.

title: Talk:English language/Archive 1


text:
Hurricane Alberto (2000)

Hurricane Alberto was the farthest-travelling tropical cyclone on record in the Atlantic Ocean. The third tropical cyclone, first named storm, and first hurricane of the 2000 Atlantic hurricane season, Alberto developed near the western coast of Africa from a tropical wave on August 3. Initially a tropical depression, it strengthened into Tropical Storm Alberto early on August 4. While briefly turning westward on August 6, Alberto attained hurricane status. The cyclone continued to track west-northwestward, and by early the following day, reached an initial peak with winds of 90 mph. Shortly thereafter, Alberto re-curved northwestward and began encountering increased wind shear. As a result, Alberto weakened back to a tropical storm on August 9. However, the system quickly re-strengthened as winds became more favorable, and early on August 10, Alberto became a hurricane again. The storm gradually curved northward and north-northeastward between August 11 and August 12; Alberto attained its peak intensity with winds of 125 mph during that time.

Increasing upper-level westerlies caused Alberto to weaken as it moved east-northeastward, with the cyclone losing most of its convection. Early on August 14, Alberto was downgraded to a tropical storm. A westerly trough that had been guiding Alberto outran the storm, and strong ridging developed to the north and west. As a result, Alberto turned southward on August 15, southwestward on August 16, and then to the west on August 17. While curving northwestward and then northward, Alberto began to re-strengthen, and was upgraded to a hurricane for a third time on August 18. Alberto reached a third peak intensity as a Category 2 hurricane with winds of 105 mph on August 20. After weakening back to a Category 1 hurricane, Alberto conducted an unusually large cyclonic loop, spanning approximately 5 degrees latitude and 8 degrees longitude. The cyclone was downgraded to a tropical storm on August 23, shortly before completing its extratropical transition. Although it did not affect land while tropical, the precursor tropical wave caused light rainfall in Senegal. The remnant extratropical cyclone also likely produced tropical storm-force winds in Iceland and Jan Mayen.

Meteorological history
A mesoscale convective complex, or large circular area of thunderstorms, developed in the Ethiopian Highlands of Africa on July 28. The complex moved west-southwestward through the continent, waxing and waning until persisting along a tropical wave on August 2. The next day, the wave emerged into the Atlantic Ocean from Guinea. Once over the open Atlantic Ocean, the wave quickly developed and became Tropical Depression Three later that day. The depression moved to the west-northwest and was upgraded to Tropical Storm Alberto early on August 4. Alberto continued to strengthen, but moved to cooler waters late on August 5 and weakened briefly. However, the storm strengthened again early on August 6, and it was upgraded to hurricane status as an eye became visible. The upgrade was accompanied with a brief westward turn. However, Alberto continued to move to the west-northwest later that day, reaching its first peak intensity of 90 mph on August 7.

A vigorous upper-level low developed west of Alberto on August 7 and August 8. This caused an increase in vertical shear, weakening the hurricane down to a tropical storm on August 9. The low also caused the storm to turn to the northwest. However, on August 10, Alberto became better organised and was upgraded to hurricane status again. It then moved in a gradual curve towards the north and northeast through a break in a subtropical ridge between August 11 and August 12. Alberto made its closest approach to Bermuda on August 11, passing about 345 mi east of the island. The strong storm became a Category 3 major hurricane on August 12 and reached its second and highest peak intensity of 125 mph, and a 60 mi wide eye was observed. Alberto was an unusual storm in that it reached its peak intensity at a high latitude, north of 35˚N, after it had re-curved. The hurricane began to weaken due to increasing upper-level westerlies on August 13 and August 14, while moving east-northeastward. Alberto was downgraded to a tropical storm on August 14.

As early as August 10, computer models anticipated the hurricane to accelerate to the northeast and become extratropical within three days, but this did not occur. A westerly trough that had been influencing Alberto's motion outran the storm, and a strong ridge developed to the north and west, causing the storm to turn abruptly to the south on August 15, and to complete a large loop over the open Atlantic. Alberto turned to the southwest on August 16 and to the west on August 17. The storm then took a sharp turn toward the northwest as a large, slow-moving mid-level trough was carving out over the eastern United States. Alberto began to strengthen, and reached hurricane status for the third time on August 18. The hurricane continued to turn to the north on August 19 and to the northeast on August 20 and August 21. During this time, Alberto reached a third peak intensity of 105 mph on August 20, and a 70 mi wide eye was observed. Operationally, Alberto reached a peak intensity of 110 mph, but after reanalysis, it was reduced to 105 mph.

Hurricane Alberto began to weaken on August 22 as it accelerated into higher latitudes. It was downgraded to a tropical storm early on August 23. Initially, it was forecast to become extratropical on August 22, but a little burst of colder cloud tops enabled Alberto to remain tropical for a longer time, persisting into August 23, while it moved into a very high latitude of 53˚N. The weakening storm finally became extratropical late on August 23, while accelerating to the north-northeast, passing near Iceland on August 24. Gale-force winds became non-existent, as the centre turned to the east-northeast on August 25. Alberto dissipated about 85 mi east of Jan Mayen later that day.

Impact, records, and naming
Very minimal impact occurred as a result from Hurricane Alberto. Dakar, Senegal, received 25 mm of rain as the pre-Alberto tropical wave passed over the city. A discussion was issued on August 9 advising residents in Bermuda to monitor the progress of the storm until it safely passed. Also, from August 12 to August 14, public advisories were issued advising people from Azores to monitor the progress of Hurricane Alberto. This stopped when Alberto began to slow its motion and began to turn to the south, away from the Azores. Some swells were reported along the east coast of the United States a few days after the storm's recurvature. No reports were available on the impact of Alberto on Iceland, but it was estimated that winds of at least tropical storm force were experienced there. Otherwise, there were no known reports of damage or casualties as a result of Hurricane Alberto.

Hurricane Alberto completed the largest loop ever observed over the Atlantic Ocean, spanning approximately 5 degrees latitude by 8 degrees longitude. The storm is currently the ninth longest-lived storm in the Atlantic Ocean (lasting 19.75 days), and is also the second longest-lived Atlantic storm during August (the longest lived is the 1899 Hurricane San Ciriaco). Also, Alberto is the farthest-travelling in the Atlantic (travelling 6,500 miles), being able to retain tropical characteristics at an unusually high latitude, up to 53˚N. The last storm to do so was Hurricane Frances in 1980.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Hurricane Alberto (2000)


text:
User talk:Neal Finne/Archive 1

Welcome
Welcome ShadowDragon,

You have provided terrifically detailed additions to Gary Locke. I can see that you're a serious Wikipedian interested in improving our project. If you stay for a while, you'll discovered that collectively, we're a cooperative and friendly community. We are all here to learn, and hopefully can give something back. If you have questions or doubts of any sort, do not hesitate to post them on the Village Pump, somebody will respond ASAP. Other helpful pages include:
 * How does one edit a page
 * Manual of style
 * Naming conventions

Just keep in mind that while relevant discussions and constructive criticisms and are welcome, unproductive and/or destructive insults are not (see Wikiquette).

Who knows? Perhaps you'll soon become a Wikipediholic and make it into the list of Most active Wikipedians! :-)

--Menchi 06:47, Aug 11, 2003 (UTC)

p.s. Just one thing: There's no need to type reporter if the redirect works fine. We only do that "pipe trick" if there's ambiguity, like Formosa.

 * Thank you for your kind comments and the resources you have provided, Menchi. -- ShadowDragon

Washington gubernatorial election, 2004
Is the Washington State 2004 Gov election in Aug or Nov of 04 you put Aug 4 2004 on the page? -- User:Smith03

 * My bad, you're right. -- ShadowDragon

Smith Tower
I replaced your Smithtower.gif image with a Smithtower.jpg (JPEG). The JPEG format is specifically designed to store photographs. Using a JPEG file, I managed to store an image with larger dimensions, yet taking up half the disk space (and bandwidth). Generally, you always have to experiment with formats, though. See for yourself if you like the change. --branko 00:00, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I like the change from GIF to JPG, but the new sky seems too bright. Maybe you could find a better medium by tinkering with the range a bit. — ShadowDragon 08:27, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

Seattle Central Library
I have partially reverted your edits to Seattle Central Library. Please see Talk:Seattle Central Library for details.--TreyHarris 08:33, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Running Start
Has the maximum credit level per quarter changed? Back in the early 90s, schools only paid for 15 credits. I hadn't heard about this change, which would be welcome if it occurred. How did you hear about it? Jwrosenzweig 16:56, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * It must have changed, because I had 18 credits paid for in Fall 2003 and in Spring 2004. I don't know when the change occured, though. ShadowDragon 17:01, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Interesting. If it's not too prying of me, can I ask which community college you attend?  Long ago, I attended Shoreline Community College, just north of Seattle -- got myself a fine education there, which I still look back on with some pride, even after three other universities and time have intervened. Jwrosenzweig 17:42, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * I attended Columbia Basin College in Pasco Fall 2002–Spring 2004. I'll be going to UW this fall. I'm quite anxious to get out of this Podunk and live in Seattle again. ShadowDragon 18:00, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Have fun at the UW -- it's a great school, and I liked it there. :-) Good luck in your studies, Jwrosenzweig 19:50, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Thank you. ShadowDragon 19:52, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Categorization
Hi! Thanks for the good work on Category:King County, Washington...I've been trying hard to set up sensible category divisions too rather than just senselessly lumping hundreds of articles together under the most general headings. I myself have been cross-listing each city article under "Cities of [State]" and the county that it was located in, rather than "Cities of ____ County"—I figured that the "Cities of [State]" category wouldn't turn into a mess even with a lot of entries because all the articles would be of the same genus and so mere alphabetizing would be sufficient. I have nothing against your system though, and I would think that eventually this will all be set up so the category pages can be viewed according to preference of detail, with the categories collapsed into sub-categories or expanded.
 * That's what I was thinking re:expansion of subcategories. Also, in the case of large counties, listing cities under the county category could become cumbersome.

One suggestion, though this may not be something you want to spend the time on as there are others who will eventually do it—using the articles on bridges as an example, those should also be cross-listed under something like "Bridges of Washington," or however narrow you think it needs to be based on the number (i.e., "Bridges of Seattle"). That way those can be eventually tied to groupings like Category:Bridges in the United States, itself under Category:Bridges. Those local bridge categories could then also be connected to local categories on transportation, perhaps. Hopefully everything can not only be categorized based on where it is, but what it is as well. Thanks again for your contributions! Postdlf 19:26 23 June 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion! Category:Geography of King County, Washington would be a very sensible category. I think I'll make it now, in fact. :) ShadowDragon 19:52, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

French translation
There is an article that I'm particularly interested in, but I cannot translate it as my French skills don't go beyond IB French. I mean, I can do a bit of it but not all of it. I've tried getting in touch with the contributor on French Wikipedia but no dice. Would you translate an article for me, or no? I'll tell you what it is when you give me an affirmative answer...and if you refuse, hey, can't blame a guy for trying, eh? Mike H 23:58, Jun 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * I can help, sure! My French isn't perfect either though, so no guarantees . . . . ShadowDragon 00:10, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * The article in question is Santa Barbara (television). There is a Français link there already, and you can click on that and translate. However, if you know about the show, there really wouldn't be a need to translate...just for writing. The show is a bit before my time (although my sisters loved it). Mike H 00:12, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

That was great! You are now my newest bestest friend for life! *mwah!* (See my user page to understand what the hell I'm getting at). ;) Mike H 01:31, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * :) Note that I didn't translate the section Critique de la série because it was basically one anonymous user's opinions on why the series succeeded. ShadowDragon 01:38, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * What did it say, loosely? I've studied enough on old soap operas to know whether or not they'd be valid or just POV. And I match your :) and raise you two :) :)! Mike H 01:41, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * Loosely, Santa Barbara suceeded while yielding to the rules of the genre. It had high quality writing and non-caricature characters. Its plots weren't always the best, but they were always emotional and taken to the extreme. A real success in France but not in the U.S. It was saved several times by its fans. Who could forget the couple Eden and Cruz, the verbal disputes between Sophie and Gina, and the loves of Kelly, Julia, Ted and others? :) :) ShadowDragon 02:03, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's very POV and I'm surprised it hasn't been taken off fr.wikipedia.org. While the basic elements of the message are true, it waxes fan through and through. Thanks again, you are the best! :) :) I've even added a message to my user page to indicate the cleanup progress. Mike H 02:06, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

 * You already completed two years of college while you were in high school? So you're 18, too, huh? I was in the International Baccalaureate program. In August I'm going to the University of South Florida. The expected time to get a degree is three years but I might be out earlier due to the IB credits. Mike H 02:22, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

 * Yup! I guess you read the article Running Start, then? I didn't even take any classes at high school for my senior year (and only French the year before that). Between Running Start and AP, I already have 108 college credits. (UW will only take 90. Waaah!) After two years at the U I should be done. ShadowDragon 02:52, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for reverting my talk page. If Rienzo keeps it up, I will have to report him...or whatever I can do.

 * I read the article because it was on your user page and I wanted to know what the term meant. I took both AP and IB classes. In May, I had to take my exams, in English Higher Level, Biology Higher Level, History Higher Level, Math Studies Standard Level, and French B Standard Level. I think I did well on all of them. Mike H 15:47, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

 * Why? 64.252.163.47's articles? ShadowDragon 19:13, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * They're everywhere and they're undermining my legitimate work. I'm sorry if I sound like a whiny bitch, but soap operas are one of the few areas I know fairly well. Mike H 19:22, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

 * Well it would appear that that user's done or now. It was only four articles anyway. If you have your preferences set correctly those articles should still show up red/maroon. ShadowDragon 19:37, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Only four articles THAT time. He's been here since before I've arrived and created probably over a hundred of those pithy things. Mike H 19:40, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

Seattleites
Done. Thanks for the reminder--I've not been a heavy user of categories, and didn't know you were supposed to do that. See you around, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 20:40, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Seattle TV Stations
Hey, there! How have you been?

I saw you edit some Seattle TV stations and I thought, if you weren't busy, you'd like to put them in the Wikiproject for Television Stations. There's a template for a table that I have already used for my local stations. See WKRG, WEAR, and WPMI for examples. Edit as fit, if you'd like to take up the challenge. Hope to hear from you. :) Mike H 01:14, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Sure, when I can get around to it. ShadowDragon 01:19, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * ...and how have you been? I wasn't just asking that to be polite, you know. Mike H 01:19, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Good . . . et tu? ShadowDragon 01:22, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Nice. I finally got to swim again after a week of not being able to (long story...tornado picked up the glass table and shattered it in the pool). Plus, we went out shopping and all that. Spent $15 at the bargain sale at Waldenbooks and another $12 or so at the bargain DVD bin at Wal-Mart. They were offering My Neighbor Totoro for $5.50. The outlet mall wanted $19.99! Craziness!

So tell me about your day. Eventful? Mike H 01:25, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * No, not at all. The only thing I can think of is that I'm a little hungry. Oh, and I'm listening to a song by Merrie Amsterburg in XMMS. That's all . . . ShadowDragon 01:37, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm listening to Dark Lady by Cher on WinAmp. Tragic on oh-so-many levels. Heh. Mike H 01:40, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * You corrected my tags on your talk page? How anal is that? Mike H 01:48, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Disambiguation can become such a habit. ShadowDragon 03:58, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I guess it is, innit? I have a headache. Oi. Mike H 19:15, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

help
I have been working on Bridges in Portland, Oregon and through the course of that I have been trying to disambiguate some of your previous work. I moved Fremont Bridge to Fremont Bridge (Seattle, Washington) and I will change Fremont Bridge to a disambiguation page once I can fix the "What links here" pages that I am having troubles with. I can't figure out how to rename the fremontbridge.jpg image, or fix Category:Bridges in Washington

Thanks Cacophony

Seattle: featured article
Hey there, regarding WikiProject Seattle, how much further do you think we have to go until Seattle is worthy of (self-)nomination as a featured article? Thanks--Lukobe 06:49, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Seattle map
Cool additions to the Seattle article. What are your criteria for additions to the new map of Seattle? Anything we have an article on whose location can be pinpointed, except in such cases where that would end up being ridiculous (such as in the central business district)? or....

Thanks --Lukobe 21:18, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Also--any roads/freeways, etc.?

 * It's all pretty subjective. I've tried to go for what gets the most visitors (esp. tourists), what's the most well-known, and what's the most significant. I've also tried to avoid including so many things that the map gets too crowded.

 * I think I might do an inset map of Downtown Seattle, which would free me up to include more places throughout Seattle without having different standards for places Downtown and places outside of Downtown. If I do that, I'd like to strive for something fairly similar to Image:Ph map manila large.png.

 * I do plan to add interstates, state highways, and ferry routes, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Parks and other large places (UW especially) could use highlighted areas rather than pinpoints as well.

 * I'm also thinking of doing maps of Seattle neighborhoods. Whether to do simple locator maps or more detailed maps that show what's inside the neighborhoods, I don't know. ShadowDragon 22:21, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I would like the map of Seattle neighborhoods. Maybe you could upload the blank map without the names on it, so that others could make maps with labels on them too?  Thanks for your great work, DanKeshet 07:40, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)

Adventure game
You might want to know Talk:Adventure game/Translation from French is now on VfD. I'm sure your opinion on whether you want it kept or deleted will be respected, so please give it. -- Jmabel 21:51, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

Final Fantasy 6
I added the job names and original Japanese to the little insert on the right. I also redid a lot of the first characters that weren't done before. The job names appear on the menu screen next to a character's name in the Japanese version. The below are the classes and Japanese names for some of the other characters:

US name, Japanese name, Japanese name in kana, class name

Biggs/Vicks*, Biggs, ビックス, Imperial Soldier Wedge, Wedge, ウェッジ, Imperial Soldier Strago, Stragos, ストラゴス, Blue Mage Relm, Relm, リルム, Pictomancer (literally says "Pictomancer") Mog, Mog, モグ, Moogle Gogo, Gogo, ゴゴ, Mime Umaro, Umaro, ウーマロ, Sasquatch (literally, "Snow Man" in Japanese)

* Original US version said Vicks. US PSX rerelease said Biggs, fixing it to match Star Wars 4 as intended. (This wasn't Ted Woolsey's fault. The Japanese really says Vicks rather than Biggs...)

translation
There is an enormous backlog at Translation into English, more than for all other languages combined. I see you are signed up at Translators_available. Would you be at all interested in taking on one of these articles? (Full disclosure: this is a bit of a "mass mailing", I'm working my way down the whole list of French-to-English translators.) -- Jmabel 00:10, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

January 15 Seattle meetup
Just wanted to let you know we are planning another Seattle meetup on January 15, 2005. We're trying to get a sense of who will attend, so please drop by that page & leave a note. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:39, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

Yvelines-Versailles.jpg listed for deletion
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Yvelines.jpg listed for deletion
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User categorization
Greetings, ShadowDragon! Please accept this message as an invitation to categorize your user page in the category Category:Wikipedians in Washington and removing your name from the Wikipedians/Washington page. The page will be deleted when all users have been removed. Even if you do not wish to be placed in a category, could you take a moment to remove your name from the Wikipedians/Washington page? Thanks!!

To add your name to the category, please use the tag   to ensure proper sorting.

For more information, please see User categorisation and Category:Wikipedians by location. -- Roby Wayne  Talk •  Hist 06:46, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Garylocke.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Garylocke.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page for more information if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. MetsBot 19:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Hate to lose this picture, but I don't think we're allowed to use it since it's copyrighted :( --Lukobe 06:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hikipedia
Hello Neal,

I've noticed that you have submitted a few nice contributions to the article about Snoqualmie Falls. I am currently gathering feedback about the Hikipedia project (which also includes an article about Snoqualmie Falls). Could you please give me some feedback about the Hikipedia site? Would you consider contributing to Hikipedia?

I know that one can add trail descriptions to a regular Wikipedia, but there are quite a few things that would be too difficult too acomplish: trail-oriented search, embedded weather forecast, voting for trail difficulty and enjoyability, trail reports, links and images of guidebooks. Additionally it is impossible to use content from Wikipedia in a leaflet or advertisment (because of "invariant sections" requirement of Gnu license).

Please let me know what you think about Hikipedia (you can use the feedback page, or reply here).

Thank you for your time,

Lukasz Anforowicz

Meetup
Looks like Meetup/Seattle4 will be happening September 9, 2006. - Jmabel | Talk 01:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

English vs. French spelling
Because of your past work on the Wikiprojects for French "régions" and "départements", I thought you might be interested in contributing to the current discussion over French vs. English spelling of those very words taking place at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_France. Cheers. --NYArtsnWords 23:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Linkimage
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Non-free use disputed for Image:Kings Quest.png
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Similar WikiProject
Hey, am I correct in assumng you created Seattle Wiki Project (i recently added a shortcut WP:STL, just though it would make it easier), anyway, i was wondering if you could review my newly created project page: WP:WLA or WikiProject Los Angeles just so you can give me improvement suggestions. Cheers. (♠ Taifar  ious1  ♠) 03:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

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Invitation to Meetup/Seattle6, a focus group
Hello. I'm part of a research group at the University of Washington (Seattle campus), and my group is reaching out to Wikipedians in the Puget Sound area. We're hosting a focus group designed to gather information on what Wikipedians would like to know about each other when interacting on Wikipedia. Our end goal is to create an embedded application that helps people quickly know more about others' history and activity on Wikipedia, and we feel our design will be much more useful if it's based on insights of users like you.

I'm hoping that the chance to help out local researchers, to engage in lively face-to-face discussion with other Seattle Wikipedians, and to contribute to Wikipedia in a new way will entice you to join us. The session lasts 2 hours and snacks are provided - one is April 8 (Wednesday) starting at 6 pm and the other is April 18 (Saturday) starting at 10 am. (Sessions will be held on UW Seattle campus - directions will be sent after registration.) Your contribution will be greatly appreciated!

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title: User talk:Neal Finne/Archive 1


text:
Dedicated line

In computer networks and telecommunications, a dedicated line is a communications cable or other facility dedicated to a specific application, in contrast with a shared resource such as the telephone network or the Internet. It is a communication path between two points.

In practice, such services may not be provided by a single, discrete, end-to-end cable, but they do provide guarantees of constant bandwidth availability and near-constant latency, properties that cannot be guaranteed for more public systems. Such properties add a considerable premium to the price charged.

As more general-purpose systems have improved, dedicated lines have been steadily replaced by intranets and the public Internet, but they are still useful for time-critical, high-bandwidth applications such as video transmission.

Some institutions such as NPR and other news agencies have large numbers of private lines with people that they frequently interview, (often government agencies) though these are being phased out in favor of VoIP systems.

title: Dedicated line


text:
Motorsport

Motorsport(s) or motor sport(s) are sporting events, competitions and related activities that primarily involve the use of automobiles, motorcycles, motorboats and powered aircraft. For each of these vehicle types, the more specific terms automobile sport, motorcycle sport, power boating and air sports may be used commonly, or officially by organisers and governing bodies.

Different manifestations of motorsport with their own objectives and specific rules are called disciplines. Examples include circuit racing, rallying and trials. Governing bodies, also called sanctioning bodies, often have general rules for each discipline, but allow supplementary rules to define the character of a particular competition, series or championship. Groups of these are often categorised informally, such as by vehicle type, surface type or propulsion method. Examples of categories within a discipline are formula racing, touring car racing, sports car racing, etc.

Governing bodies
The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), formed in 1904, is the oldest and most prominent international governing body. It claims to be the sole international motor sporting authority for automobiles and other land vehicles with four or more wheels, whilst acknowledging the authority of the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM) over vehicles with one to three wheels, which FIM calls motorcycle sport.

FIM and FIA are both recognised as international sports federations by the International Olympic Committee.

FIA hierarchy
Within the FIA's structure, each affiliated National Sporting Authority (ASN) is recognised as the sole authority in their nation. Permission of the ASNs must be obtained to organise events using their rules, and their licenses must be held by participants. Not all ASNs function in the same manner, some are private companies such as Motorsport UK, some are supported by the state such as France's FFSA, or in the case of the US's ACCUS, a council of sanctioning bodies is the national representative at FIA meetings.

ASNs, their affiliated clubs or independent commercial promotors organise motorsport events which often include competitions. A collective of events is called a series, and a grouping of competitions often forms the basis of a championship, cup or trophy.

Unaffiliated automobile sport bodies
Not all nations have a sporting authority affiliated with the FIA, some disciplines may not fall within the FIA's remit of control, or organisations may choose to ignore the claim of the authority of others. Examples include banger racing and stock car racing in the United Kingdom which are claimed by both the Oval Racing Council and the National Stock car Association, despite the claim by the FIA affiliated ASN, Motorsport UK, to be the "governing body of all four-wheel motorsport in the UK". SCORE International, National Auto Sport Association and National Off-Road Racing Association of the United States are also not members of the FIA affiliation system but may work with members for international matters.

History
In 1894, the French newspaper Le Petit Journal organised a contest for horseless carriages featuring a run from Paris to Rouen. This is widely accepted as the world's first motorsport event.

In 1900, the Gordon Bennett Cup was established. Closed circuit racing arose as open road racing, on public roads, was banned.

Motorsport was a demonstration event at the 1900 Summer Olympics.

Following World War I, European countries organised Grand Prix races over closed courses. In the United States, dirt track racing became popular.

After World War II, the Grand Prix circuit became more formally organised. In the United States, stock car racing and drag racing became firmly established.

Racing
Although English dictionaries do not unanimously agree and singularly define that a race is between competitors running head-to-head,  in its International Sporting Code, the FIA defines racing as two or more cars competing on the same course simultaneously.

Circuit racing
Circuit racing takes place on sealed-surface courses at permanent autodromes or on temporary street circuits. Competitors race over a set number of laps of the circuit with the winner being the first to finish, or for a set length of time with the winner having completed the highest number of laps, with others classified subsequently.

Circuit racing replaced point-to-point (city-to-city) racing early in the history of motorsport, for both spectator appeal and as safety concerns brought in regulation of the sport, forcing organisers to use closed, marshalled and policed circuits on closed public roads. Aspendale Racecourse in Australia in 1906 was the first purpose-built motor racing track in the world. After which, permanent autodromes popularly replaced circuits on public roads.

In North America, the term road racing is used to describe racing and courses that have origins in racing on public highways; distinguished from oval racing, which has origins at purpose-built speedways using concrete or wooden boards.

 * Single-seater racing involves cars with minimal chassis and bodywork material, with capacity only for the driver and necessary mechanical components. As the wheels protrude from the body of the car these thorough race cars are also known as open-wheel cars.
 * Formula racing is an informal collection of series that use a specific set of rules for race car design. The most prevalent international series are Formula One and Formula Two. Others include Formula 3, Formula Ford, Formula Renault and Formula Palmer Audi. Former 'Formula' series include Formula 5000, GP2 and GP3.
 * Formula One is an international championship governed by the FIA and currently promoted by the privately owned company, Formula One Group. The regulations contain a strict set of rules which govern vehicle power, weight, size and design. The rules do allow for some variation however.
 * Formula E is a championship of open-wheel racing that uses only electric-powered cars. The series was conceived in 2012 and the inaugural championship started in Beijing on 13 September 2014. The series is also sanctioned by the FIA and races a spec chassis/battery combination, with manufacturers allowed to develop their own electric power-trains. The series has gained significant traction in recent years.
 * IndyCar Series originated on June 12, 1909, in Portland, Oregon. Shortly after, Indianapolis Motor Speedway opened in 1909 and held races that ranged from 50 to 200 mi. Its premier race is the Indianapolis 500 which began on May 11, 1911. Today, IndyCar operates with over 20 teams and 40 different drivers.

 * Sports car racing involves two categories. One includes production-based grand touring (GT) and sports cars. Although these are separate vehicle categories when built for road use; and historically they were raced as manufactured, these vehicle types have little difference when prepared for modern racing. The second category includes racing prototypes, thorough closed-bodied race cars with wheels enclosed by the bodywork and with the historical connection to a sports car's requirement to have two seats and a minimum width. The flagship race is the 24 Hours of Le Mans which takes place annually in France during the month of June. It is a constituent race of the FIA World Endurance Championship.
 * Stock car racing originally used production 'stock' cars, the vehicles are now purpose-built prototype sports cars or single-seater cars. In the most prominent series organised by NASCAR in the US, Canada and Brazil amongst others, the cars maintain a silhouette body of a production road car. Stock car racing series' in the UK and New Zealand also use open-wheel, single-seater race cars with little to no bodywork.
 * Touring car racing involves modified production cars intended for road use. In FIA regulations, touring cars must be recognised with having a minimum production quota and have a minimum of four seats, although the cars are still heavily modified and prepared for racing. Some national bodies accept cars with two seats as touring cars.
 * Truck racing involves racing of modified large goods vehicle tractor units.

Off-road racing
Off-road racing can take place on open terrain with no set path, or on circuits that do not have a sealed surface such as asphalt or concrete.

Notable off-road races on open terrain include the Baja 1000 desert race, organised by SCORE International. The FIA authorise Extreme E, an electric off-road series whose organisers have announced a hydrogen fuel series, Extreme H, to begin in 2025.

Examples of off-road racing disciplines and series include:

 * Rallycross, short sprint races of touring cars on compact circuits of both asphalt and dirt surfaces. The discipline was born in Great Britain in 1967, when some entrants of the cancelled RAC Rally used their rally cars in a televised race instead.
 * Lawn mower racing, involves the racing of ride-on lawnmowers on dirt surfaced circuits or point-to-point cross-country courses. The British Lawn Mower Racing Association organises an annual World Championship which consists of one event.
 * Autograss, a British off-road racing series sanctioned by the National Autograss Sport Association. Ten classes of various vehicle categories are accepted, and races for each class are usually four to ten laps long and have up to eight vehicles competing.

Drag racing
Drag racing is an acceleration contest from a standing start along a short and straight course. Vehicles of various types can compete, usually between two vehicles. Winners can be the first to finish of competing pairs or by setting the fastest time, and competitions may have heats and/or series of runs.

Karting
Kart racing is a form of circuit racing using very small and low vehicles not considered as automobiles known as go-karts. It is one of the sports regulated by FIA (under the name of CIK), permitting licensed competition racing for anyone from the age of 8 onward. It is generally accepted as the most economical form of motorsport available on four wheels. As a free-time activity, it can be performed by almost anybody, and as karting circuits can be indoors and not take as much space as other forms of motorsport, it can be accessible to retail consumers without much qualification or training.

Hill climbs, time-trials and sprints
Non-racing speed competitions have various names but all carry the general rule of participants completing a course individually with the intention of setting the shortest time or highest average speed. This form of motorsport can be recreational or when competitive, rules may vary slightly such as whether to include the total time of several runs, the best time set, or the average pace of multiple courses to classify competitors.

Qualifying sessions for circuit races and special stages in rallying take the general form of time trials and sprints.

Hillclimbing
Hillclimbing is the most widely known form of time-trial due to its status as the only time trial or sprint form to have international FIA championships and endorsement. Its origins begin near the start of motorsport, particularly with the trials held that tested the capabilities of early automobiles to tackle uphill gradients. Contestants complete an uphill course individually and against the clock, the winner having the shortest, lowest average or total time. Hillclimbing events often include classes of competition for various categories and ages of vehicle and so may be incorporated into car shows or festivals of motoring such as the Goodwood Festival of Speed. Hill climb courses can be short at less than 1 mile, or several miles long such as the 12.42 mile Pikes Peak course in Colorado, USA.

Sprints, time trials and time attack
Sprints are governed by national FIA member ASNs in United Kingdom, Ireland and Australia, amongst other places. They are held on courses that do not climb a hill, at private and closed roadways where higher speeds and distances can be reached than at an autotesting course for example.

Time attack are terms used by series that run sprints at racing circuits where competitors try to set the quickest lap time rather than racing head-to-head with others.

Time trials are run by the Sports Car Club of America, amongst others.

Rallysprint
Rallysprints are mainly sanctioned and held in continental Europe. Ultimately, they are similar to other time trial sprints but originate from the cars and courses used in special stage rallying with the elements of navigation and itinerary removed, and not necessarily requiring a co-driver to call pacenotes.

Rallying
Rallying involves driving to a set itinerary, following a prescribed route and arriving and departing at control points at set times with penalties applied for diverging from the route or arriving late and early.

Rallies nearly always involve routes on open roads, closed special stages are used on some rallies where competitors drive against the clock. The classification of these rallies are determined by summing the times set with the fastest crews being victorious, as found in the World Rally Championship. This method is often called rally racing or stage rallying informally, whilst rallies that do not include special stages are distinctly regularity rallies.

Rallies that include routes that cover terrain off-road are also known as rally raid or cross-country rallies, the most famous example being the Dakar Rally. In the United States, the National Off-Road Racing Association (NORRA) was founded in 1967 along with the Baja 1000. Since the 1990s, this race has been organised by SCORE International whilst NORRA's events have closer followed the FIA regulations and standards for cross country rallies, although the association has no affiliation to ACCUS, the US's FIA member.

Drifting
Drifting is a form of motorsport where drivers intentionally lose rolling traction in corners through oversteering but maintain momentum with effective throttle control, clutch use and corrective steering. In competition a panel of judges award marks on artistry and car control through the corner or series of corners. Competitions often feature pairs of cars driving together where a lead car and a chase car go head-to-head, with only one car going through to the next heat or winning the competition.

Autocross
Autocross has multiple general meanings based on country of use.

 * Prescribed by the FIA and in continental European nations is a form of off-road racing on short circuits entirely on unsealed surfaces. The cars are typically enclosed single-seaters called buggies; touring cars or tubular-chassis cross-cars.
 * In United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland is an off-road time trial over a short temporary course. Multiple competitors may be on the course at one time but are not racing head-to-head.
 * In United States and Canada is similar to Autotesting in the United Kingdom and Australia. It is a form of low-speed time-trial on short circuits or courses that are often temporary and reconfigurable allowing for multiple passes of new routes at one compact venue.

Autotesting / Gymkhana
Also known as Autocross in US and Canada and Autoslalom in Continental Europe, these similar disciplines are held in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. They involve precise car control, usually but not always against the clock on very short and compact temporary courses. Rather than being a high-speed test, car handling manoeuvres can be tested such as precision drifting, donuts, handbrake turns, reversing and so on.

Other
Other disciplines of automobile sport include:
 * demolition derby
 * monster truck events
 * rock crawling
 * tractor pulling
 * land speed record attempts
 * trials

Non-automobile forms of motorsport

 * Motorcycle racing
 * Freestyle motocross
 * Motorcycle trials
 * Motorboat racing
 * Air racing
 * Drone racing
 * Hovercraft racing
 * Radio-controlled model racing
 * Slot car racing
 * Snowmobile racing

title: Motorsport


text:
Wild Man Fischer

Lawrence Wayne "Wild Man" Fischer (November 6, 1944 – June 16, 2011) was an American street performer known for offering erratic, a cappella performances of "new kinds of songs" for a dime on the beaches and the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood. Most of his life was spent homeless or institutionalized, and he later became regarded as "the godfather of outsider music".

Born in Los Angeles, Fischer was repeatedly sent to mental institutions as a teenager, where he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. In 1968, he recorded a double album, An Evening with Wild Man Fischer, that was produced by Frank Zappa for the Bizarre label. At one point, Fischer was the opening act for the Byrds, Iron Butterfly, Solomon Burke, and Bo Diddley. His relationship with Zappa came to an abrupt end after Fischer threw a bottle that nearly hit Zappa's daughter Moon.

In 1975, Fischer helped jumpstart Rhino Records with the novelty single "Go to Rhino Records". The label put out a trilogy of albums that ultimately became his last: Wildmania (1977), Pronounced Normal (1981), and Nothing Scary (1983); the latter two were produced by the comedy music duo Barnes & Barnes. A documentary about Fischer's life, Derailroaded: Inside the Mind of Wild Man Fischer, premiered at the South by Southwest festival in 2005.

Early life
Larry Fischer was born on November 6, 1944, in Los Angeles, California. From an early age, he experienced major mood swings typical of bipolar disorder, and developed a habit of singing Paul Anka songs at the top of his voice, which he called having "the pep". When his mood worsened, he experienced auditory hallucinations and acted violently toward his family. He attended Fairfax High School but was expelled in 1962 for singing in class. In 1963, he was committed to Camarillo State Hospital for threatening his mother with a knife, and he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and manic depression. Released one year later, he appeared at numerous talent shows and was discovered by R&B singer Solomon Burke, who gave him the nickname "Wild Man" and brought him along on a tour. Fischer was still living at home at this time, and in 1965, was once again institutionalized for his behavior. According to Fischer, the hospital stays only exacerbated his condition.

An Evening with Wild Man Fischer
By 1967, Fischer was on medication and acting as a street performer in Hollywood. For a nickel or a dime, he would offer a "new kind of song" to passersby as an a cappella performance. This led him to become an opening act for the Byrds, Bo Diddley, and Iron Butterfly. While performing onstage and outside at the Sunset Strip, he was noticed by Frank Zappa, bandleader for the Mothers of Invention. Zappa later said: "I thought from the first day I met him that someone should make an album about Wild Man Fischer." He invited Fischer into a studio and recorded him singing about topics such as his mother, mental hospitals, fame, circles, and how he could move faster than a cat could see him. The Mothers of Invention, record producer Kim Fowley, radio DJ Rodney Bingenheimer, and Zappa's girl group the GTOs made guest appearances on some of the tracks.

Released as a double album in 1968, An Evening with Wild Man Fischer was given a positive review in Rolling Stone magazine, where it was described as "captur[ing] the total being of one strange member of the human community". On September 23, 1968, thanks to his connections with Zappa, Fischer appeared on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, singing "The Leaves Are Falling" and "Merry-Go-Round". During this period he also made contributions to the 1968 psychsploitation album "Bedlam" by The Crazy People. In December, Zappa arranged for him to perform at a Christmas show involving the Mothers, the GTOs, Easy Chair, and Alice Cooper. Fischer sang "Circles".

Fischer was frustrated that the album failed to bring him the fame he expected. One day, he visited Zappa and threw a bottle that nearly hit Zappa's infant daughter Moon. This ended their relationship. After Frank's death in 1993, Gail Zappa inherited her husband's musical copyrights, and refused to reissue the album for as long as she lived feeling that the recording was "a poor example of Frank's work."

Rhino Records albums
In 1974, Larry appeared as a guest vocalist on noise band Smegma's album Sing Popular Songs. In 1975, he recorded Rhino Records' first release, a novelty single entitled "Go to Rhino Records". At the time, Rhino Records was only a record shop in Los Angeles. According to the New York Times: "Demand for [the single] proved so great that it catapulted the store's owners into the record-producing business." Two years later he recorded their very first LP, Wildmania. In the 1980s, Fischer worked with the comedy music duo Barnes and Barnes (Bill Mumy and Robert Haimer) to produce two more albums for Rhino, Pronounced Normal (1981) and Nothing Scary (1984). In 1986, Barnes and Barnes also wrote and produced "It's a Hard Business", a duet featuring Fischer and Rosemary Clooney. The song was the result of a telephone friendship they began due to mutual acquaintances. In 1988, a judge awarded Fischer royalties on his song "Merry-Go-Round" (from the videocassette release of the movie Medium Cool), but the attorney representing Fischer did not know how to contact him. Fischer was still homeless, living in motels and on the streets while panhandling at places like Dodger Stadium and Disneyland. He performed at the 1988 San Diego Comic Con with Bill Mumy's group as his backing band.

In 1998, Date with the Devils Daughter, an album by Robert Williams (a drummer formerly with Captain Beefheart) includes "Hello Robert", which consists of messages that Fischer left on Williams's phone. In 1999, Rhino released The Fischer King, a two-CD package comprising 100 tracks and a 20-page booklet, which sold out within weeks. The limited-edition album comprises his entire Rhino catalog, including all three of the Rhino albums plus singles, unreleased material, interviews done for this release, and his duet with Clooney. It releases almost everything Fischer ever recorded, except An Evening with Wild Man Fischer, for which the Zappa family still held the rights.

Final years and death
Fischer was mentioned in Thomas Pynchon's 1990 novel, Vineland. In the early 2000s, Fischer was filmed as the subject of a full-length documentary, Derailroaded: Inside the Mind of Wild Man Fischer, which premiered at South by Southwest in March 2005. Co-director Josh Rubin called the four years making the film "the most arduous, trying time of my life" due to Fischer's erratic behavior. It included an appearance from Devo's Mark Mothersbaugh who called him: "as pure a rock and roll icon as you can find. He's mainlined into the creative subconscious." In 2004, Fischer was the subject of a comic book (The Legend of Wild Man Fischer by Dennis Eichhorn), and in October, appeared on ABC-TV's late-night talk/comedy show, Jimmy Kimmel Live!.

In 2003, Fischer had a six-month-long paranoid episode, convinced somebody was trying to kill him, and he started living on the streets again. He called Bill Mumy up to 20 times a day, hanging up each time, until Mumy finally had to change his phone number. Fischer eventually moved in with his aunt Josephine, but three weeks later she was diagnosed with terminal cancer (this happened during the filming of Derailroaded). Fischer and his family consented to move him into an assisted-living mental institution in Van Nuys. The medications he was prescribed helped him control his behavior, but it also eliminated his creative drive, or "pep". Fischer made his final performance on August 16, 2006, at the Trunk Space in Phoenix, Arizona.

The last seven years of Fischer's life were spent peacefully but uneventfully. On June 16, 2011, he died of heart failure at the Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles, at the age of 66.

Discography
Studio albums
 * 1968: An Evening with Wild Man Fischer (Bizarre Records)
 * 1977: Wildmania (Rhino Records)
 * 1981: Pronounced Normal (Rhino Records)
 * 1983: Nothing Scary (Rhino Records)
 * 2018: Deep State (CDBaby)

EP
 * May 1968: Laminas (7-inch 33rpm project of UCLA art students, three tracks by Larry, miscredited as "Fisher")

Compilations
 * 1981: The First One ...(First-1) (A.T.C. Records)
 * 1999: The Fischer King (Rhino Records) (compilation of all Rhino recordings)

Singles
 * 1975: "Go To Rhino Records" (Rhino Records)
 * 1981: "Don't Be A Singer" / "I Got A Camera" /" Do The Salvo" (Rhino Records)
 * 1981: "Larry Comes Alive" (A.T.C. Records)

Filmography

 * 2005: Derailroaded: Inside the Mind of Wild Man Fischer

title: Wild Man Fischer


text:
Talk:KLM

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