text:
Moe Berg

Morris Berg (March 2, 1902 – May 29, 1972) was an American professional baseball catcher and coach in Major League Baseball who later served as a spy for the Office of Strategic Services during World War II. He played 15 seasons in the major leagues, almost entirely for four American League teams, though he was never more than an average player and was better known for being "the brainiest guy in baseball." Casey Stengel once described Berg as "the strangest man ever to play baseball."

Berg was a graduate of Princeton University and Columbia Law School, spoke several languages, and regularly read ten newspapers a day. His reputation as an intellectual was fueled by his successful appearances as a contestant on the radio quiz show Information Please, in which he answered questions about the etymology of words and names from Greek and Latin, historical events in Europe and the Far East, and ongoing international conferences.

As a spy working for the government of the United States, Berg traveled to Yugoslavia to gather intelligence on resistance groups which the U.S. government was considering supporting. He was sent on a mission to Italy, where he interviewed various physicists concerning the German nuclear weapons program. After the war, Berg was occasionally employed by the Central Intelligence Agency, successor to the Office of Strategic Services.

Early life and education
Berg was the third and youngest child of Bernard Berg, a pharmacist who emigrated from Ukraine, and his wife Rose (née Tashker), a homemaker, both Jewish, who lived in the Harlem section of New York City, a few blocks from the Polo Grounds stadium. When Berg was three and a half, he begged his mother to let him start school.

In 1906, Bernard Berg bought a pharmacy in West Newark and the family moved there. In 1910 the Berg family moved again, to the Roseville section of Newark. Roseville offered Bernard Berg everything he wanted in a neighborhood—good schools, middle-class residents, and few Jews.

Berg began playing baseball at the age of seven for the Roseville Methodist Episcopal Church baseball team under the pseudonym "Runt Wolfe". In 1918, at the age of 16, Berg graduated from Barringer High School. During his senior season, the Newark Star-Eagle selected a nine-man "dream team" for 1918 from the city's best prep and public high school baseball players, and Berg was named the team's third baseman. Barringer was the first of a series of institutions where Berg's religion made him unusual at the time. Most of the other students were East Side Italian Catholics or Protestants from the Forest Hill neighborhood. His father had wanted an environment with few Jews.

After graduating from Barringer, Berg enrolled in New York University. He spent two semesters there and also played baseball and basketball. In 1919 he transferred to Princeton University and never again referred to having attended NYU for a year, presenting himself exclusively as a Princeton man. Berg received a B.A., magna cum laude in modern languages. He studied seven languages: Latin, Greek, French, Spanish, Italian, German, and Sanskrit, studying with the philologist Harold H. Bender. His Jewish heritage and modest finances combined to keep him on the fringes of Princeton social life, where he never quite fit in.

During his freshman year, Berg played first base on an undefeated team. Beginning in his sophomore year, he was the starting shortstop. He was not a great hitter and was a slow baserunner, but he had a strong, accurate throwing arm and sound baseball instincts. In his senior season, he was captain of the team and had a .337 batting average, batting .611 against Princeton's arch-rivals, Harvard and Yale. Berg and Crossan Cooper, Princeton's second baseman, communicated plays in Latin when there was an opposing player on second base.

On June 26, 1923, Yale defeated Princeton 5–1 at Yankee Stadium to win the Big Three title. Berg had an outstanding day, getting two hits in four at bats (2–4) with a single and a double, and making several marvelous plays at shortstop. Both the New York Giants and the Brooklyn Robins (the team became known as the Brooklyn Dodgers starting in 1932) desired "Jewish blood" on their teams, to appeal to the large Jewish community in New York, and expressed interest in Berg. The Giants were especially interested, but they already had two shortstops, Dave "Beauty" Bancroft and Travis Jackson, who were future Hall of Famers. The Robins were a mediocre team, on which Berg would have a better chance to play. On June 27, 1923, Berg signed his first big league contract for $5,000 ($0 today) with the Robins.

Early career (1923–1925)
Berg's first game with the Robins was on June 27, 1923, against the Philadelphia Phillies at the Baker Bowl. Berg came in at the start of the seventh inning, replacing Ivy Olson at shortstop, when the Robins were winning 13–4. Berg handled five chances without an error, and caught a line drive to start a game-ending double play. He got a hit in two at bats, singling up the middle against Clarence Mitchell, and scoring a run. For the season, Berg batted .187 and made 21 errors in 47 games, his only National League experience.

After the season ended, Berg took his first trip abroad, sailing from New York to Paris. He settled in the Latin Quarter in an apartment that overlooked the Sorbonne, where he enrolled in 32 different classes. In Paris he developed a habit he kept for the rest of his life: reading several newspapers daily. Until Berg finished reading a paper, he considered it "alive" and refused to let anyone else touch it. When he was finished with it, he would consider the paper "dead" and anybody could read it. In January 1924, instead of returning to New York and getting into shape for the upcoming baseball season, Berg toured Italy and Switzerland.

During spring training at the Robins facility in Clearwater, Florida, manager Wilbert Robinson could see that Berg's hitting had not improved, and optioned him to the Minneapolis Millers of the American Association. Berg did not take the demotion well and threatened to quit baseball, but by mid-April he reported to the Millers. Berg did very well once he became the Millers' regular third baseman, hitting close to .330, but in July his average plummeted and he was back on the bench. On August 19, 1924, Berg was lent to the Toledo Mud Hens, a poor team ravaged by injuries. Berg was inserted into the lineup at shortstop when Rabbit Helgeth refused to pay a $10 ($0 today) fine for poor play and was suspended. Major league scout Mike González sent a telegram to the Dodgers evaluating Berg with the curt, but now famous, line, "Good field, no hit." Berg finished the season with a .264 average.

By April 1925, Berg was starting to show promise as a hitter with the Reading Keystones of the International League. Because of his .311 batting average and 124 runs batted in, the Chicago White Sox exercised their option with Reading, paying $6,000 ($0 today) for him, and moved Berg up to the big leagues the following year.

Career as a catcher (1926–1934)
The 1926 season began with Berg informing the White Sox that he would skip spring training and the first two months of the season in order to complete his first year at Columbia Law School. He did not join the White Sox until May 28. Bill Hunnefield was signed by the White Sox to take Berg's place at shortstop, and was having a very good year, batting over .300. Berg played in only 41 games, batting .221.

Berg returned to Columbia Law School after the season to continue studying for his law degree. Despite White Sox owner Charles Comiskey offering him more money to come to spring training, Berg declined, and informed the White Sox that he would be reporting late for the 1927 season. Noel Dowling, a professor to whom Berg explained his situation, told Berg to take extra classes in the fall, and said that he would arrange with the dean a leave of absence from law school the following year, 1928.

Because he reported late, Berg spent the first three months of the season on the bench. In August, a series of injuries to catchers Ray Schalk, Harry McCurdy, and Buck Crouse left the White Sox in need of somebody to play the position. Schalk, the White Sox player/manager, selected Berg, who did a fine job filling in. Schalk arranged for former Philadelphia Phillies catcher Frank Bruggy to meet the team at their next game, against the New York Yankees. Bruggy was so fat that pitcher Ted Lyons refused to pitch to him. When Schalk asked Lyons whom he wanted to catch, the pitcher selected Berg.

In Berg's debut as a starting catcher, he had to worry not only about catching Lyons' knuckleball, but also about facing the Yankees' Murderers' Row lineup, which included Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, and Earle Combs. Lyons beat the Yankees 6–3, holding Ruth hitless. Berg made the defensive play of the game when he caught a poor throw from the outfield, spun and tagged out Joe Dugan at the plate. He caught eight more times during the final month and a half of the season.

To prepare for the 1928 season, Berg went to work at a lumber camp in New York's Adirondack Mountains three weeks before reporting to the White Sox spring training facility in Shreveport, Louisiana. The hard labor did wonders for him, and he reported to spring training on March 2, 1928, in excellent shape. By the end of the season, Berg had established himself as the starting catcher. In 1928, he led all AL catchers in caught-stealing percentage (60.9), was third in the AL in double plays by a catcher, with 8, and fifth in the American League in assists by a catcher, with 52. At the plate, he batted .246 with a career-high 16 doubles.

At law school, Berg failed Evidence and did not graduate with the class of 1929, but he passed the New York State bar exam. He repeated Evidence the following year, and on February 26, 1930, received his LL.B. On April 6, during an exhibition game against the Little Rock Travelers, his spikes caught in the soil as he tried to change direction, and he tore a knee ligament. In 1929, he was second in the American League in both double plays by a catcher (12) and assists by a catcher (86), caught the third-most attempted base stealers in the league (41), and was fourth in the league in caught-stealing percentage (47.7%). He had perhaps his best season at bat, hitting .287 with 47 RBIs.

He was back in the starting lineup on May 23, 1930, but was prevented from daily play because of his knee. He played in 20 games during the whole season and finished with a .115 batting average. During the winter, he took a job with the respected Wall Street law firm Satterlee and Canfield (now Satterlee, Stephens, Burke & Burke).

The Cleveland Indians picked him up on April 2, 1931, when Chicago put him on waivers, but he played in only 10 games, with 13 at-bats and only 1 hit for the entire season.

The Indians gave him his unconditional release in January 1932. With catchers hard to come by, Clark Griffith, owner of the Washington Senators, invited Berg to spring training in Biloxi, Mississippi. He made the team, playing in 75 games while not committing an error, and was second in the AL in double plays by a catcher, with 9, and in caught-stealing percentage, at 54.3%. When starting catcher Roy Spencer went down with an injury, Berg stepped in, throwing out 35 baserunners while batting .236.

First trip to Japan
Retired ballplayer Herb Hunter arranged for three players, Berg, Lefty O'Doul, and Ted Lyons, to go to Japan to teach baseball seminars at Japanese universities during the winter of 1932. On October 22, 1932, the group of three players began their circuit of Meiji, Waseda, Rikkyo, Todai (Tokyo Imperial), Hosei, and Keio universities, the members of the Tokyo Big6 Baseball League. When the other Americans returned to the United States after their coaching assignments were over, Berg stayed behind to explore Japan. He then went on to tour Manchuria, Shanghai, and Peking, China; Indochina, Siam, India, Egypt, and Berlin, Germany.

Despite his desire to return to Japan, Berg reported to the Senators training camp on February 26, 1933, in Biloxi. He played in 40 games during the season and batted a disappointing .185. The Senators won the pennant, but lost to the Giants in the World Series. Cliff Bolton, the Senators' starting catcher in 1933, demanded more money in 1934. When the Senators refused to pay him more, he sat out and Berg got the starting job. On April 22, Berg made an error, his first fielding mistake since 1932. He had an American League record of 117 consecutive errorless games. On July 25, the Senators gave Berg his unconditional release. He soon returned to the big leagues, however, after Cleveland Indians catcher Glenn Myatt broke his ankle on August 1. Indians manager Walter Johnson, who had managed Berg in 1932, offered Berg the reserve catching job. Berg played sporadically until Frankie Pytlak, Cleveland's starting catcher, injured himself, and Berg became the starting catcher.

Second trip to Japan
Herb Hunter arranged for a group of All-Stars, including Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Earl Averill, Charlie Gehringer, Jimmie Foxx, and Lefty Gomez, to tour Japan playing exhibitions against a Japanese all-star team. Although Berg was a mediocre, third-string catcher, he was invited at the last minute to make the trip. Berg had contracted with Movietone News, a New York City newsreel production company, to film sights from his trip; he took a 16-mm Bell & Howell movie camera and a letter from the company attesting to this. When the team arrived in Japan, Berg gave a welcome speech in Japanese; he also was invited to address the legislature.

On November 29, 1934, while the rest of the team was playing in Omiya, Berg went to Saint Luke's Hospital in Tsukiji, ostensibly to visit the daughter of American Ambassador Joseph Grew. However, when Berg arrived he immediately went to the roof of the hospital which was one of the tallest buildings in Tokyo, and filmed the city and port with his movie camera. In 1942, Berg provided American intelligence with his photos of the city in case they were of use to plan bombing raids. He never did see the ambassador's daughter. While Berg was in Japan, the Indians notified him of his unconditional release. Berg continued to travel to the Philippines, Korea, and Moscow of the Soviet Union.

Late career and coaching (1935–1941)
After his return to America, Berg was picked up by the Boston Red Sox. In his five seasons with the Red Sox, Berg averaged fewer than 30 games a season.

On February 21, 1939, Berg made his first of three appearances on the radio quiz show Information, Please. Berg had a dazzling performance. Of his appearance, Baseball Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis told him, "Berg, in just thirty minutes you did more for baseball than I've done the entire time I've been commissioner". On his third appearance, Clifton Fadiman, the moderator, started asking Berg what the latter thought were too many personal questions. Berg did not answer any of them and never appeared on the show again. Regular show guest and sportswriter John Kieran later said, "Moe was the most scholarly professional athlete (I) ever knew."

After his playing career ended, Berg worked as a Red Sox coach in 1940 and 1941. Berg punctuated his career in baseball with "Pitchers and Catchers," a widely admired valedictory essay on the meaning and playing of the game, published in the September 1941 issue of The Atlantic Monthly. A 2018 profile of Berg in The New York Times described the essay as "still one of the most insightful works ever penned about the game."

Spying for the U.S. government
With the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese on December 7, 1941, the United States was thrust into World War II. To do his part for the war effort, Berg accepted a position with Nelson Rockefeller's Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs (OIAA) on January 5, 1942. Nine days later, his father, Bernard, died. During the summer of 1942, Berg screened the footage he had shot of Tokyo Bay for intelligence officers of the United States military. (At one time it was thought his film may have helped Lieutenant Colonel Jimmy Doolittle plan his famous Doolittle Raid, but the raid was conducted well before the summer, on April 18, 1942.)

From August 1942 to February 1943, Berg was on assignment in the Caribbean and South America. His job was to monitor the health and physical fitness of the American troops stationed there. Berg, along with several other OIAA agents, left in June 1943 because they thought South America posed little threat to the United States. They wanted to be assigned to locations where their talents would be put to better use.

On August 2, 1943, Berg accepted a position with the Office of Strategic Services Special Operations Branch (SO) for a salary of $3,800 ($0 today) a year. He was a paramilitary operations officer in the part of the OSS that developed as the present-day CIA Special Activities Division. In September, he was assigned to the OSS Secret Intelligence branch (SI), and given a spot on the OSS SI Balkans desk. In this role, based in Washington, he remotely monitored the situation in Yugoslavia. He assisted and helped prepare Slavic-Americans recruited by the OSS to go on dangerous parachute drop missions into Yugoslavia. His OSS code name was "Remus".

In late 1943, Berg was assigned to Project Larson, an OSS operation set up by OSS Chief of Special Projects John Shaheen. The stated purpose of the project was to kidnap Italian rocket and missile specialists in Italy and bring them to the U.S. Another project hidden within Larson was called Project AZUSA, which had the goal of interviewing Italian physicists to learn what they knew about Werner Heisenberg and Carl Friedrich von Weizsäcker. It was similar in scope and mission to the Alsos project.

During the mission, Berg had a heated run-in in Italy with Alsos chief Boris Pash, a controversial army officer who played a major role in the stripping of the security clearance of Robert Oppenheimer.

From May to mid-December 1944, Berg hopped around Europe, interviewing physicists and trying to convince several to leave Europe and work in the United States. In November, news about Heisenberg giving a lecture in Zürich reached the OSS. Berg was assigned to attend the lecture, which took place on December 18, and determine "if anything Heisenberg said convinced him the Germans were close to a bomb." If Berg concluded that the Germans were close, he had orders to shoot Heisenberg; Berg determined that the Germans were not close. On orders direct from President Franklin Roosevelt, Berg persuaded Antonio Ferri, who had served as the head of the supersonic research program in Italy, to relocate to the United States and take part in supersonic aircraft development here. When Berg returned with Ferri, Roosevelt commented "I see that Moe Berg is still catching very well". During his time in Switzerland, Berg became close friends with physicist Paul Scherrer. Berg resigned from the OSS after the war, in January 1946.

After World War II
In 1951, Berg begged the CIA (which replaced the OSS) to send him to the recently founded nation of Israel. "A Jew must do this", he wrote in his notebook. The CIA rejected Berg's request. But in 1952 Berg was hired by the CIA to use his old contacts from World War II to gather information about the Soviet atomic bomb project. For the $10,000 plus expenses that Berg received, the CIA received nothing. The CIA officer who spoke with Berg when he returned from Europe said that he was "flaky".

For the next 20 years, Berg had no real job. He lived off friends and relatives who put up with him because of his charisma. When they asked what he did for a living, he would reply by putting his finger to his lips, giving them the impression that he was still a spy. A lifelong bachelor, he lived with his brother Samuel for 17 years. According to Samuel, Berg became moody and snappish after the war, and did not seem to care for much in life besides his books. Samuel finally grew fed up with the arrangement and asked Moe to leave, even having eviction papers drawn up. Berg next moved in with his sister Ethel in Belleville, New Jersey, where he resided for the rest of his life.

He received a handful of votes in Baseball Hall of Fame voting (four in 1958, and five in 1960). When he was criticized for "wasting" his intellectual talent on the sport he loved, Berg replied, "I'd rather be a ballplayer than a justice of the U.S. Supreme Court".

Berg received many requests to write his memoirs, but turned them down. He almost began work on them in 1960, but he quit after the co-writer assigned to work with him confused him with Moe Howard of the Three Stooges.

Death
Berg died on May 29, 1972, at the age of 70, from injuries sustained in a fall at home. A nurse at the Belleville, New Jersey, hospital where he died recalled his final words as: "How did the Mets do today?" (They won.) By his request, his remains were cremated and spread over Mount Scopus in Jerusalem, Israel.

Legacy
"'Mr. Morris Berg, United States Civilian, rendered exceptionally meritorious service of high value to the war effort from April 1944 to January 1946. In a position of responsibility in the European Theater, he exhibited analytical abilities and a keen planning mind. He inspired both respect and constant high level of endeavor on the part of his subordinates which enabled his section to produce studies and analysis vital to the mounting of American operations.'"
 * After the war, the OSS was disbanded. Berg was awarded the Medal of Freedom, the highest honor given to civilians during wartime, from President Harry S. Truman for his service. He declined to accept it without any public explanation. The citation read:
 * After his death, his sister, Ethel, requested and accepted the award on his behalf, later donating it to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

 * In 1996 Berg was inducted into the National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame.
 * In 2000 he was inducted into the Baseball Reliquary's Shrine of the Eternals.
 * His is the only baseball card on display at the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Representation in other media

 * Nicholas Dawidoff wrote Berg's biography in The Catcher Was a Spy: The Mysterious Life of Moe Berg (1994).
 * Berg is a major character in science writer Sam Kean's book The Bastard Brigade.
 * In 2017, during the first season of the biographical series Genius, which tells the story of Albert Einstein, Berg is seen in the ninth episode, played by Adam Garcia.
 * The biographical film The Catcher Was a Spy (2018) was based on Nicholas Dawidoff's book. The film was directed by Ben Lewin, and Berg was played by Paul Rudd. It premiered at the 2018 Sundance Film Festival.
 * Berg is the subject of the documentary film The Spy Behind Home Plate by Aviva Kempner, released in 2019.
 * Berg is the subject of Chuck Brodsky's 2002 ballad, "Moe Berg: The Song"
 * The story of Berg's attendance at Heisenberg's lecture is told in Terminator:_The_Sarah_Connor_Chronicles, Season 1, Episode 3.

title: Moe Berg


text:
Talk:Bob Tisdall

Untitled
The material I submitted on Bob Tisdall is from information I hav e collected on him over a number of years. Most of it comes from talking to the man himself. I spoke with him only three days ago. I have more material to add. If you believe that there is any unoriginal material submitted by me yesterday, I will re-write the page, not using any notes that were the basis of the material I sent yesterday.

Keith Boyle Eudlo, Queensland, Australia.

 * Sorry about that. Some of the specific phrases came up on google searches, so I assumed it was copy/pasted from those.  I will revert the article to the version you submitted and withdraw the copyright violation listing; just make sure none of it is copied from elsewhere so we don't get in trouble with other sources for copyright issues (sources are fine, as long as they aren't word-for-word).  Good job on the article by the way, quite comprehensive! --Delirium 00:54 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Bob Tisdall


text:
User:Desktoptetsu~enwiki

&

My web page in English is found at:

http://desktoptetsu.at.infoseek.co.jp/e_index.htm

title: User:Desktoptetsu~enwiki


text:
Talk:Metathesis (linguistics)

American Sign Language section?
I'm thinking of adding a section on metathesis in Sign Language (specifically ASL) but I don't think I have the photos which would be beneficial, if not crucial, to understanding the explanation. I guess even if I had the pictures, I've never tried uploading and linking to photos in wiki. Any help or any comments? --Alex DG 04:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a curious note under the American Sign Langauge section (about the information not being cited) that doesn't appear in any of the other language examples that aren't cited. Why is that? Also, The introduction still talks about metathesis being a process affecting sounds and syllables. Although American sign language is assumed to have syllables it certainly doesn't have 'sounds'. I would suggest we reword the intro to refer to "phonological units" or "sub-lexical units" rather than sounds or syllables.Alex DG (talk) 17:39, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I know this is an old comment, but I'd like to cover this for anyone else who has such a question.
 * While some people use the tag indiscriminately, the cite tag often carries with it the implication that the information given is thought to possibly be inaccurate. In fact, in its original usage, the tag was used to indicate that information should be removed if a citation was not found.
 * It's also quite likely that the person tagging it knew something about sign language but not about the other languages, and thus only felt comfortable tagging the sign language section. (Although the possibility also exists that, since metathesis was defined as having to do with sounds, the tagger understandably questioned the possibility of metathesis in a silent language.) — trlkly 12:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Other stuff
Spelling changes do not cause phonological changes; the US pronounciation is not a result of a spelling change in "jewelry/jewellery". I pronounce it "julrey", with only two syllables, which I suspect is the most common US prononunciation. (And I pronounce "jewel", normally, with a single long diphthong, in contrast to the usual two-syllable British pronunciation.) I think the spelling change reflects the three -> two syllable change, and not the metathesis "julary". Hence, I'm deleting entirely the comment about spelling. --Tb 00:45 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * It struck me also that the pronunciation "julary" is the result of an analogy that likens the word to the many English words that end in -ary or -ery, rather than the result of spelling. -- IHCOYC 15:20 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Definitely. Metathesis is very frequently associated with analogy to other words. --Tb 20:43 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

What phonetic transcription is being used in this article? It's not X-SAMPA—I've never heard anyone pronounce "jewelry" with a doubled /o/ sound. — Gwalla | Talk 17:51, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * It's a proposed representation for English that I created after reading complaints about X-SAMPA being unintelligible, IPA untypeable, and English "phonetic spellings" hard to interpret. See English phonetic spelling.  There seems to be no great haste to adopt it.  Smerdis of Tlön 18:05, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * If you're going to use a nonstandard phonemic representation, please say so somewhere. Frankly, I'd prefer IPA, X-SAMPA, or a set of symbols like those used in dictionary pronunciation keys to a system that uses digraphs confusingly ("ie" for IPA /i/ or English "long e"?). I agree about English "phonetic spellings" being awful—they're frequently confusing and occasionally misleading.   — Gwalla | Talk 21:38, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I put in a tag to the page explaining them (EPS) but it seems it was not conspicuous enough. AAR, I have reverted it back to English phonetic spelling like it originally stood; that's probably good enough to get the point across.  Smerdis of Tlön 03:02, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Would anyone else agree that the pronunciation 'Febyuary' for February isn't metathesis, but a contraction of the 'r' sound? It doesn't seem to exhibit the same reordering of the other examples. Xyzzyva 19:01, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

 * I tend to agree; it's syncope instead. -- Smerdis of Tlön 20:01, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think aksian vs. ask and hwat vs. what also belong here, but I'm not sure of their ancient forms. Adam78 13:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * hwæt > what is not metathesis. This simply gives two examples of the spelling of aspirated w: hw in OE, wh in Modern English, which is usually pronounced as regular initial w. --Rich 19:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I just added the "wymon for women" example. I think it's a good common example, but as the vowel is also shifted if someone fells strongly elsewise please feel free to remove it. --Zombiejesus 03:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

 * What do you mean 'wymon'? Is that a representation of pronunciation? If so, we need some more information to decipher it.

stragety for strategy. witness heqs 18:47, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Are "realator" and "nucular" really examples of metathesis? I think they're more accurately be described as examples of epenthesis, but certainly not metathesis.

Is "liberry" really metathesis? Seems to me more like an elision of the first r sound. 128.173.157.65

Could someone confirm whether the standard English pronunciation of 'iron' as if it were 'iern' is an example of metathesis (and if so, provide an IPA rendering of the latter)? Stevvers 18:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I can't provide a source but I think it probably went something like this:

 * → After the Great English vowel shift.
 * → Vowel reduction.
 * → Metathesis.
 * → While the schwa and /r/ may be seperate phonemically, phonetically they are combined into a rhotic schwa. Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 21:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I've just checked the OED, which claims that "apparently" the sequence was →  →  via syncopation, rather than metathesis. (The modern pronunciation that they give is the nonrhotic (British) version: .) Stevvers 00:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * That's really odd. I was under the impression that schwa was only epenthisized before an /r/ in the coda, not syllable initial ones.  But the OED is the OED.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 04:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * How is for comfortable metathesis, based on the description here? It looks just like elision of the 'or' to me. Skittle 17:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The pentultimate vowel is, so a rhotic rather than a plain shwa, so there's metathesis of r and tə.

 * What I however am having problems understanding are these two:
 * for Israel
 * for vegetable
 * --Tropylium 12:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

digression
I think the mention of the meaning of metathesis in chemistry is redundant due to the fact that it is mentioned in the disambiguation. The statement in the article ought to be deleted.

 * The first sentence of the linked scientific paper is plausibly useful -- and on-point: "Derived from the Greek words meta (change) and thesis (position), metathesis is the exchange of parts of two substances. In the reaction, AB + CD → AC + BD, B has changed position with C." In this context, the otherwise abstract concepts of metathesis are especially well-visualized in the unique diplomas which were crafted for King Carl XIV Gustaf to present to the three chemists who shared the Nobel Prize in 2005.
 * Metathesis as "dance" -- illustrated in Chauvin diploma, 2005 Nobel Prize in Chemistry
 * Metathesis as "dance" -- illustrated in Grubbs diploma, 2005 Nobel Prize in Chemistry
 * Metathesis as "dance" -- illustrated in Schrock diploma, 2005 Nobel Prize in Chemistry
 * Ooperhoofd 13:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Israel and vegetable
Hello, All.

The article gives these as examples of metathesis in English: I think they should not be included. I see no transposition of phonemes, only the shortening or omission of sounds.
 * for Israel
 * for vegetable

The first change in Israel is the omission of a sound for the initial I. The several typical variant pronunciations for the rest of the word seem to hing on
 * (1) whether the speaker believes that the a should be pronounced
 * [eɪ],
 * or [ɑ] or [a] (with a [j] or [i] sound to soften the transition to [ɛ] or [ə], for the e),
 * or [i] (the [i] linking sound, but missing the [ɑ] or [a] that might precede it);
 * (2) whether the speaker believes that the e should be pronounced [ə] or [ɛ];
 * and (3) whether the speaker believes that the letters ae should be treated as a single unit pronounced [eɪ], as in Gaelic.

No transposition.

In and, there is omission of the sound of the medial e, along with, in one case, devoicing of [dʒ] into [tʃ]. Again, no transposition.

I will remove those words from the list.

President Lethe 03:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Milagro
How sure are we about this one? I could envision a series such as this: miraculo > *miragulo > *miraglo > *miragro > miraglo with plain ol' liquid dissimilation. Step 3 could come about if it was reached after gl- >> ll had started. --Tropylium (talk) 17:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Greek and Latin
Can anyone recommend good references for metathesis in Greek and Latin?--Meieimatai 04:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Murciélago (Spanish)
In the section about Spanish, it was written: implying that "murciégalo" (the non-standard variant) is a metathesis of "murciélago" (the standard variant, "blessed" by the Spanish Royal Academy). In fact, this is not true. In this case, it is the standard variant that is a methatesis of the variant contemporarily considered as non-standard. To see this, look up "murciélago" in the Spanish Royal Academy dictionary and check its etymology. --Antonielly (talk) 13:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * murciégalo for murciélago

Poor example
The example in the introduction (pronouncing 'comfortable' as if it was spelt 'comfterble') is surely an example of elision and not metathesis — in fact, it is even used as an example in the elision article. —Stephen Morley (talk) 14:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We've gone over this before. comfortable → comfterble -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 11:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We're talking about versus  — the difference I see is an elided schwa. There are much better examples we can use — the asterisk example further down the article is an indisputable case of metathesis. —Stephen Morley (talk) 14:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And in rhotic accents (as noted!), it's from to . But you're right, a better example would work for non-rhotic accents too. A medial case appears to be more typical than the ks/sk change (cf. the other languages) — I'll go with "foilage" since there's no contending definition. Strictly speaking it's not a simple phoneme reversal tho, but there's no need to get pedantic about it there.-- Trɔpʏliʊm  • blah 09:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If there's agreement about this can we take it out? As noted above this seems to be an example of a schwa elision and calling it metathesis is dubious at best. Fysidiko (talk) 15:17, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Pardon?
"What is sound before and after metathesis depends on assumption of language ancestry if protowords cannot be attested." Any ideas what that gibberish means? Wikipedia needs to be in plain english. Futhermore, are all those examples from other cultures strictly necessary? This is the English Language Wiki, after all. This entry sounds like a final PhD dissertation on The Analysis of Metathesis in Protolanguages of Eastern Senegal.Jubilee♫ clipman 14:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Say that in Examplese there is a word "wurkis" and in the related Forinstancian a corresponding word "wukris": it is clear that metathesis has occur'd, but it is not immediately clear in which language.
 * The other language examples are, I think, useful for demonstrating that metathesis can have different degrees of systematicality. By the English examples alone we'd risk giving the impression that metathesis only occurs as a sporadic speech error. -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 22:06, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Third, Thirteen and Three
This triplet is given as an example of metathesis in English. I doubt it, because this particular example could be simply a manifestation of phonological evolution in English. Compare Latin: tres (three), tertius (third). Has Latin undergone a similar metathesis? I have seen that the words *treyes (three) and *trtyos (third) are posited for the Proto-Indo-European with the syllabic -r- in the second word. Then historical evolution explains why we have tres but tertius (not tretius) in Latin, and likewise, in English. We want a specific example on metathesis in English, not one which illustrates the evolution of non-vocalic syllablic sounds r, l, m and n. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.19.234.131 (talk) 22:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation of metathesis
Hi!

Data didn't mispronounce it and nor is the IPA pronunciation given the 'correct' (i.e. only) pronunciation, by a long chalk. Stressing of syllables is especially variable in English speakers even moving from dialect to dialect throughout the UK. Considered across all of the English speaking populations this is even more the case. Indeed, the listed pronunciation is one which seems least like to me (a native English speaker, travelled widely), as it happens.

/'mɛtɘθiːsɘz/ and /mɛtɘ'θiːsɪs/ for example are two pronunciations which I can attest and which are both far more likely than a 'schwa'd initial ee combined with a strongly stressed second syllable, in my opinion.

In any case, there is no way it can be argued that it was mispronounced, as is currently stated, when used in ST:TNG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.208.164 (talk) 15:19, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The pronunciations métathesis and metathésis are correct based on English rules of accent, which place accent on the first syllable of each part of a compound word. Here the parts are meta and thesis, and each of these two pronunciations accent one of these parts. But historically the accenting of the word metathesis has been based on Latin rules of accent, which place accent on the third syllable from the end unless the second syllable from the end is long (heavy). So based on English rules of accent mètathésis is the correct pronunciation, but based on Latin rules metáthesis is correct. — Eru·tuon 02:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

/ˈkʌmftərbəl/ Not an Example of Metathesis
I can't cite a source or I'd just edit the article, but I'm quite certain that /ˈkʌmftəɹbl/ (which the article gives as /ˈkʌmftərbəl/, a pronunciation I'm pretty sure does not occur) is not an example of metathesis. It represents an intrusive /ɹ/ as a hypercorrection of the non-rhotic contraction /ˈkʌmftəbl/. The /ɹ/ does not exchange positions with any other phoneme. Expected metathetic forms for "comfortable" would be */ˈkʌmfrətəbl/ or */ˈkʌmfətəɹbl/, neither of which exists, as far as I know. Jdcrutch (talk) 19:37, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the article's analysis is metathesis of the sequence /ər/ (then deletion of /ə/): /-fəɹtəbəl/ → */-ftəɹəbəl/ → /-ftəɹbəl/. /əl/ isn't that odd; it's just another way of phonemically analyzing syllabic /l̩/. — Eru·tuon 22:10, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's how I pronounce it, and my dialect is rhotic. may not be the most obvious example of metathesis, but in a rhotic dialect I don't know how else you'd characterize it. — kwami (talk) 02:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that since the dialect of origin is non-rhotic, the careful pronunciation of the word should be /'kʌmfɜtɨbl/ . . . so, were I English, my not-so-careful pronunciation might be /'kʌmfətəbl/, which could then be skinnied down to /'kʌmftəbl/. I think this might actually be an instance of elision and Cheshirization. Uuords (talk) 09:52, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The example was recently removed. User:TSP, it is true that in non-rhotic accents comfortable → comfterble is just deletion of schwa, but in rhotic accents it is deletion and metathesis. But it's a confusing and contentious enough example that I don't want to reintroduce it. — Eru·tuon 03:06, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Iron
This is more likely lenition: /ˈaɪ.r̩n/ > /ˈaɪrn/, if underlying /rə/ is assumed /ˈaɪ.rən/ > /ˈaɪɚn/. ᛭ LokiClock (talk) 14:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. Is the change of syllabic r to non-syllabic r (or non-syllabic r to r-coloring) an example of lenition? Such a sound change isn't listed in the Lenition article.
 * The metathesis explanation is supported by the OED, which lists the phonetic series /iːrən/ > /aɪrən/ > /aɪərən/ > /aɪər(ə)n/ > /aɪə(r)n/ > /aɪən/, of which the second and last forms are the ones given in this article. — Eru·tuon 16:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Lenition is my characterization of /ˈaɪ.r̩n/ > /ˈaɪrn/, but now I realize that's not the change it's talking about. My suspicion was for equating /ɚ/ with /ər/. /aɪən/ solves it, going with rhotic & non-rhotic saying that these /r̩, ə/ come from /ər/. Would you note OED's explanation here or on Wiktionary? ᛭ LokiClock (talk) 07:55, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

How is this an example of metathesis? According to Dictionary.com, there is no pronunciation "eye-ron". It is therefore not the same as "calvary" or "foilage". If no one defends this as metathesis it should be removed.--Ermenrich (talk) 00:43, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Natural/Conscious etc
I think not enough explanation is given on the reasons metathesis takes place - i.e. a clear distinction needs to be made in cases of natural progression in the development of a language (i.e. like the Spanish milagro (miracle) or Argelia (Algeria)), and completely intentional examples such as verlan. It could even be mentioned that spoonerisms are an example of metathesis (originally unintentional; subsequently - intentionally comic), rather than simply having it in the see also section. BigSteve (talk) 12:05, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Can I have a crips please?.:)1812ahill (talk) 20:12, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Proper names
Are proper names significant, such as Brett Favre ? → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 20:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Indic "hm" to "mh"
Illustrative and useful would be info by a linguist on hm -> mh metathesis (intermediate? – phonetic but not yet in orthography) in Indic languages (quick search shows it applies at least for Bengali, Marathi, and even Hindi), an example could be brahma. —Mykhal (talk) 22:56, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

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Dates?
"moustique from Spanish mosquito (1654); originally pronounced and written as "mousquitte" (1603)." This timeline seems impossible as written, as 'mousquitte' (1603) appears to be a French form. Perhaps what's intended is a French (1603) to Spanish (1654) to French (current) transition series. Heavenlyblue (talk) 23:10, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

 * From Latin 'musca' ('fly') to Spanish 'mosca' ('fly'), then Spanish 'mosquito' ('little fly') to French 'mousquitte' (1603)  to French 'moustique'  (1654) by metathesis.       https://stripscience.cafe-sciences.org/articles/moustiqueorthographie-1603-mousquitte-puis-1654-moustique-pa/     Heavenlyblue (talk) 23:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed.   Heavenlyblue (talk) 23:45, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Dyslexicography
First impulse:

In dyslexicography, metathesis (...) is the transposition of sounds or syllables in a word or of words in a sentence.

It would be nice to tag the lead sentence with: In somefield, ...

But what? Phonology, syntax, lexicography?

My first impulse wins the thread, but it's not suitable here. — MaxEnt 20:24, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Foliage
Why do we have as an example in the lede, but show the reverse direction in the English example section? And what are the two asterisks in front of foilage supposed to mean (in the lede)? Phlar (talk) 12:00, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * foliage > **foilage
 * foilage > foliage

 * I have removed the example in the lede and kept the (contradictory) example in the body text since it cites sources. It’s worth noting that neither of the sources state that this is an example of metathesis, so this might be an instance of WP:OR, but the same could be said for most of the other examples in this article. Phlar (talk) 00:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The Merriam-Webster source describes "foilage" as a "non-standard spelling" of foliage, before bringing up the "foille" etymology. I recommend moving this from the pronunciation section down to the "The process has shaped many English words historically." section. Lebonk (talk) 06:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki, WikiMedia and WikiPedia not even given as an example?
Shouldn't this be mentioned somewhere in the article as an example? I mean the entire community, not to mention the world at large struggles with the distinction - and there's a "word" for that!

No mention at Differences between Wikipedia, Wikimedia, MediaWiki, and_wiki either. GregRundlett (talk) 15:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Metathesis (linguistics)


text:
Pecorino

Pecorino is an Italian hard cheese produced from sheep's milk. The name pecorino derives from pecora, which means 'sheep' in Italian.

Overview
Of the six main varieties of pecorino, all of which have protected designation of origin (PDO) status under European Union law, pecorino romano is probably the best known outside Italy, especially in the United States, which has been an important export market for the cheese since the 19th century. Most pecorino romano is produced on the island of Sardinia, though its production zone also includes Lazio and the Tuscan provinces of Grosseto and Siena. Ancient Roman authors wrote about this cheese and its production technique.

The other five mature PDO cheeses are the pecorino sardo from Sardinia (casu berbeghinu in Sardinian language); pecorino toscano, whose production was already attested by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History; pecorino siciliano (or picurinu sicilianu in Sicilian) from Sicily; pecorino di Filiano from Basilicata; and pecorino crotonese from province of Crotone, in Calabria. Another well-known pecorino is the one that was produced in Abruzzo, the pecorino di Atri.

All come in a variety of styles depending on how long they have been aged. The more matured cheeses, referred to as stagionato (lit. 'seasoned' or 'aged'), are harder but still crumbly in texture and have decidedly buttery and nutty flavours. The other two types, semi-stagionato and fresco, have a softer texture and milder cream and milk tastes.

Tradition
A variant from southern Italy is pecorino pepato (lit. 'peppered pecorino'), to which black peppercorns are added. Today many other additions are made, for example walnuts, rocket, or tiny pieces of white or black truffle.

In Sardinia, the larvae of the cheese fly are intentionally introduced into pecorino sardo to produce a local delicacy called casu martzu, which means 'rotten cheese'. As it is illegal, casu marzu is primarily sold through the black market.

Meals may be finished with a good pecorino stagionato, served with pears and walnuts or drizzled with strong chestnut honey. Pecorino is also often used to finish pasta dishes, and used to be the natural choice for most Italian regions from Umbria down to Sicily, rather than the more expensive Parmesan. It is still preferred today for the pasta dishes of Rome and Lazio, for example pasta dressed with sugo all'amatriciana, cacio e pepe, and pasta alla gricia.

title: Pecorino


text:
When Incubus Attacks Volume 1

When Incubus Attacks, Vol. 1 is an EP that was released on August 22, 2000, by Incubus. The title is a parody of Cable's album title, When Animals Attack.

The tracks on this EP were recorded live during the 1999 and 2000 world tour of Make Yourself, as well as "Crowded Elevator", a song recorded during the recording of the Make Yourself album, previously unreleased outside of the Japanese pressing of Make Yourself, the European "Pardon Me" single, and the Australian "Drive" releases. A joke rap song, "We're Smoking The Herb Again", was recorded by the band and is a hidden track after "Pardon Me".

The US pressing of the EP was limited to 100,000 copies; however' the Canadian pressing is still widely available. The EP is also available online through the iTunes Store and many other online digital media stores.

Reception
AllMusic awarded the EP three out of five stars, with their review stating, "part of Incubus's charm lies in its eclectic production touches, so it's heartening to hear that these songs stand up quite well even when stripped of zippy electronics and gut-wrenching riffs."

Track listing

 * 1) "Pardon Me" (Acoustic) – 3:53
 * 2) "Stellar" (Acoustic) – 3:15
 * 3) "Make Yourself" (Acoustic) – 3:23
 * 4) "Crowded Elevator" – 4:46
 * 5) "Favorite Things" (Live) – 3:56
 * 6) "Pardon Me" (Live) – 8:23
 * The song "Pardon Me (Live)" ends at 4:17. The hidden track "We're Smokin' the Herb Again" begins at 4:47, after 30 seconds of silence.
 * On the Canadian version, the hidden track is track 7.

Origin of tracks

 * 1997 – S.C.I.E.N.C.E. ("Favorite Things" (Live))
 * 1999 – Make Yourself ("Pardon Me" (acoustic), "Stellar" (acoustic), "Make Yourself" (acoustic) and "Pardon Me" (live))
 * 2000 – Scream 3 Soundtrack ("Crowded Elevator")
 * "Crowded Elevator" was also written during the Make Yourself writing sessions, but did not make it onto Make Yourself (except on the Japanese version)

Personnel

 * Brandon Boyd – lead vocals (except on "We're Smokin' the Herb Again")
 * Mike Einziger – guitar, shared lead vocals on "We're Smokin' the Herb Again"
 * Dirk Lance – bass guitar
 * Jose Pasillas – drums, shared lead vocals on "We're Smokin' the Herb Again"
 * Chris Kilmore – turntables, shared lead vocals on "We're Smokin' the Herb Again"

Charts
Album

title: When Incubus Attacks Volume 1


text:
Black Madonna of Częstochowa

The Black Madonna of Częstochowa (Czarna Madonna z Częstochowy; Imago thaumaturga Beatae Virginis Mariae Immaculatae Conceptae, in Claro Monte), also known as Our Lady of Częstochowa (Matka Boska Częstochowska) is a venerated icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary housed at the Jasna Góra Monastery in Częstochowa, Poland.

Pope Clement XI issued a Pontifical decree of canonical coronation to the image on 8 September 1717 via the Vatican Chapter. It has also merited three Pontifical golden roses.

The icon is venerated by both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

The icon
The original painting (122 centimeters × 82 centimetres) displays a traditional composition well known in the icons of Orthodox Christianity. The Virgin Mary is shown as the "Hodegetria" version (meaning "One Who Shows the Way" or “Οδηγήτρια” in Greek). In it, Mary directs attention away from herself, gesturing with her right hand toward Jesus as the source of salvation. In turn, the child extends his right hand toward the viewer in blessing while holding a book of gospels in his left hand. The icon shows Mary in fleur-de-lis robes.

The origins of the icon and the date of its composition are still contested among scholars. One difficulty in dating the icon is due in part to its original image being painted over after being severely damaged by robbers in 1430. The wooden panel backing the painting was broken, and the image slashed. Medieval restorers unfamiliar with the encaustic method found that the paints they applied to the damaged areas "simply sloughed off the image", according to the medieval chronicler Risinius. Their solution was to erase the original image and repaint it on the original panel. The original features of an Orthodox icon were softened; the nose was made more aquiline.

Lucan tradition
The icon of Our Lady of Częstochowa has been intimately associated with Poland for the past 600 years. Its history before it arrived in Poland is shrouded in numerous legends that trace the icon's origin to Luke the Evangelist, who painted it on a cedar table top from the Holy Family house. The same legend holds that the painting was discovered in Jerusalem in 326 by Helena, who brought it back to Constantinople and presented it to her son, Constantine the Great.

Arrival in Częstochowa
The oldest documents from Jasna Góra state that the picture traveled from Constantinople via Belz. Eventually, it came into the possession of Władysław Opolczyk, Duke of Opole, and adviser to Louis of Anjou, King of Poland and Hungary. Ukrainian sources state that earlier in its history, it was brought to Belz with much ceremony and honors by King Lev I of Galicia and later taken by Władysław from the Castle of Belz when the town was incorporated into the Polish kingdom. A famous story tells that in late August 1384, Ladislaus was passing Częstochowa with the picture when his horses refused to go on. He was advised in a dream to leave the icon at Jasna Góra.

Art historians say that the original painting was a Byzantine icon created around the sixth or ninth century. They agree that Prince Władysław brought it to the monastery in the 14th century.

Our Lady declared as Queen and Protector of Poland
In August 1382, the hilltop parish church was transferred to the Paulites, a hermitic order from Hungary. The golden fleur-de-lis painted on the Virgin's blue veil parallel the heraldic azure, semée de lis, or of the French royal coat of arms and the most likely explanation for their presence is that the icon had been present in Hungary during the reign of either Charles I of Hungary or Louis the Great, the Hungarian kings of the Anjou dynasty. They probably had the fleur-de-lis of their family's coat of arms painted on the icon. This would suggest that the image was probably originally brought to Jasna Góra by the Pauline monks from their founding monastery in Hungary. The Black Madonna is said to have miraculously saved the monastery of Jasna Góra (English: Bright Mount) from a Swedish invasion. The Siege of Jasna Góra took place in the winter of 1655 during the Second Northern War, as the Swedish invasion of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth is known. The Swedes were attempting to capture the Jasna Góra monastery in Częstochowa. The sacred icon was replaced with a copy and the original moved in secret to the castle in Lubliniec, and later to the Pauline monastery in Mochów between the towns of Prudnik and Głogówek. Seventy monks and 180 local volunteers, mostly from the Szlachta (Polish nobility), held off 4,000 Swedes for 40 days, saved their sacred icon and, according to some accounts, turned the course of the war. This event led King John II Casimir Vasa to give what has become known as the Lwów Oath. He submitted the Polish Commonwealth under the protection of Our Lady and proclaimed her Queen of Poland in the cathedral of Lwów on April 1, 1656. Before this event, several royal nobilities have offered crowns to the image throughout the years, replacing its iron sheet crown riza with one in gold with several jewels. In later years, various gemstones were interchanged and repositioned around the image to preserve the icon's aesthetic by replacing the stolen crowns.

Legends about the Madonna's appearance
The legend concerning the two scars on the Black Madonna's right cheek is that the Hussites stormed the Pauline monastery in 1430, plundering the sanctuary. Among the items stolen was the icon. The Hussites tried to get away after putting it in their wagon, but their horses refused to move. They threw the portrait down to the ground, and one of the plunderers drew his sword upon the image and inflicted two deep strikes. When the robber tried to inflict a third strike, he fell to the ground and writhed in agony until his death. Despite past attempts to repair these scars, they had difficulty covering up those slashes as the painting was done with tempera infused with diluted wax.

Veneration
Częstochowa is regarded as the most popular shrine in Poland, with many Polish Catholics making a pilgrimage there every year. Since 1711, a pilgrimage leaves Warsaw every August 6 for the nine-day, 140-mile trek. Elderly pilgrims recall stealing through the dark countryside at great personal risk during the Nazi occupation. Pope John Paul II secretly visited as a student pilgrim during World War II.

The feast day of Our Lady of Częstochowa is celebrated on August 26.

Pontifical approbations
Several pontiffs have recognized the image:

 * Pope Clement XI — issued a decree of Canonical Coronation for the image via the Vatican Chapter on 8 September 1717. It is the third image to merit a decree of pontifical coronation outside of Rome. The first one is the Madonna of Trsat in Croatia, followed by the Virgin of Mount Goritia in Slovenia.
 * Pope Pius X — after the crowns were stolen on 23 October 1909, the Pontiff replaced the crowns on 22 May  1910.
 * Pope John Paul II — gifted another set of crowns as a native of Poland, placed on 26 August 2005.
 * Three pontiffs have granted golden roses to the image, Pope John Paul II (1978), Pope Benedict XVI (2006), Pope Francis (2016).

Outside Poland
Orthodox Christian believers in Ukraine and Belarus as former parts of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. Ukrainians have a special devotion to the Madonna of Częstochowa. The icon is often mentioned in Ukrainian folk songs from the 16th and 17th centuries.

Our Lady of Czestochowa Roman Catholic Church in Houston, Texas has a copy hanging inside the church to the left of the altar. This version of the icon does not have the heavily gilded gold over the initial image.

The American National Shrine of Our Lady of Czestochowa is located in Doylestown, Pennsylvania. Another shrine of the image is located in Garfield Heights, Ohio; erected on October 1, 1939, by the Sisters of St. Joseph of the Third Order of St. Francis.

In Australia, the Shrine of Our Lady of Mercy, Penrose Park, located in the Southern Highlands of New South Wales is dedicated in her honour. The title Our Lady of Mercy is used as remembrance of times throughout history that prayers for protection have been responded to through appeal to Our Lady of Częstochowa, as adherents believe.

Syncretism in the Religion of Vodou
Due to its appearance, the icon has been syncretized by some Vodou practitioners to the deity Ezilí Dantor, the main loa of the Petro family in Haitian Vodou. It is hypothesized that the image was introduced into Haiti by the reproductions of the Black Madonna brought by Polish soldiers who sided with the rebels during the Haitian Revolution.

title: Black Madonna of Częstochowa


text:
Talk:Black Madonna of Częstochowa

Untitled
See also: Talk:Black_Madonna.

The Rainbow Madonna
Folks, it might seem like a minor issue, but I would still like to hear several opinions on that. In my opinion, the Rainbow Madonna thing deserves to be mentioned in the article, just "hiding" it as a Wikilink seems odd. Now, I'm a modern person who has no particular interests in the Catholic Church & its teaching but is interested in LGBT issues: that's really the way I learned about the issue. Shouldn't there be a small section really, given that Haitian Vodou already exists? I'd really advocate for restoring my versions. Potugin (talk) 18:52, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Haitian Vodou is entirely different. Polish soldiers have brought reproduction of the Black Madonna to Haiti during the Napoleonic Wars, and Ezili Dantors Madonna is now being worshiped. It’s a sacred symbol; people pray to it. Rainbow Madonna, in contrast, is not a religious symbol, it's not being worshiped but in the last couple of years is being used as a banner at demonstrations. See also section is appropriate. - GizzyCatBella  🍁  19:30, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with GizzyCatBella, and per my edit summary. Also, the Haittan Vodou is already centruries thing which has connection with National personification (is mentioned there). See also is appropriate. Dawid2009 (talk) 19:37, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Merging with Polish
I am planing to translating (mostly with DeepL, and a lot of clean up, but also got some help if really needed) the Polish version of this article, which has more extensive coverage of the topic and trying to merge it into what is already in this article. Working on it on my user page User:Codefisher/Black_Madonna_of_Częstochowa. I read that articles with all foreign language footnotes are not well received, so I am also trying to translate and publish many of the sources. As I write this I have only done the first bit, but you can see where this is going. Feedback and guidance welcome, I have not really done much on here before. I will overwrite the current page once I am done, which might take awhile if I try to translate all the footnotes. I also got a few books on the subject that I am also looking to use. Codefisher (talk) 12:59, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Black Madonna of Częstochowa


text:
Talk:Moria, Middle-earth

Unnecessary reference to Gandalf and Christ’s resurrection in the intro paragraph
This seems gratuitous and made for Christian up-ticking. It yields no information about the subject at hand (the fictional mine kingdom of Moria) nor Tolkien’s choices in making it. I suggest deletion of the reference. Without prejudice of the claim, which seems quite likely, but serves no purpose here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:D100:72ED:20C1:217C:5B11:C4D5 (talk) 16:56, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The lead is as usual just a summary of the article body. The Analysis section cites multiple scholars, who relate Moria and the characters in it to multiple sources in literature, folktale, and archaeology; these are all covered evenly in the summary, with no particular emphasis on Christianity, but no special avoidance of it either. Since Tolkien was a Roman Catholic and stated explicitly that Lord of the Rings was a Catholic work, scholars have rightly analysed the book's allusions to Christianity, and our task here is to report on those neutrally, which is what the lead and fully-cited article body does. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Missing information
Durin's Day redirects here, but is not mentioned. ZFT (talk) 06:14, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Well spotted, it certainly shouldn't be coming here. Will fix. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:37, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Missing "rings of power"
In the "adaptations" there is no reference to the Amazon series 2A02:C7E:4EA7:8000:496:ACC1:8F7D:396 (talk) 16:10, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * When Reliable Sources have written about it, it will be possible for interested editors to add a brief mention. Since the series has only started to air a few days ago, and is largely tangential to most of the existing articles' subjects, it's a bit premature to be demanding instant references. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:22, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Possible Reference to the Morias other name "Khazad-dûm" in other Series
The land of the dwarfs is being called "Khazad-dûm" (beside Moria). In the series "Babylon 5" the home world of the so called "shadows" is being called "Zha-Hadoum" (sorry if misspelled).

"Khazad-dûm" and "Zha-Hadoum" sound very similar so it would be appreciated if it could be researched if this is a coincidence or there's any reference to Tolkien like Homage etc. If result will be that there's a reference this could be then a topic for a chapter "Trivia" in this article. 95.223.72.227 (talk) 18:09, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

 * This is basically off-topic for this article, and would probably be unusable trivia even if reliably cited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Redirect: Mount Gundabad
Why is there a redirect from Gundabad to Moria? If I remember correctly, Gundabad is another once-dwarven, now-Orcish mountain kingdom in the north, half-way between Angmar and Moria. There's some similarities, sure, but the word "Gundabad" is not even mentioned a single time in the article. 2A00:6020:40B2:2F00:810:5E63:27B2:DB6F (talk) 18:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Well spotted. There was once an article on Misty Mountains, now also a redirect, so Gundabad has no terribly obvious "home", certainly not here. However, it is a plausible search term, and it is mentioned in Dwarves in Middle-earth, so I'll redirect it there now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Moria, Middle-earth


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Adam West

William West Anderson (September 19, 1928 – June 9, 2017), known as Adam West, was an American actor. He portrayed Batman in the 1960s ABC series of the same name and its 1966 theatrical feature film, reprising the role in various media until 2017. Making his film debut in the 1950s, West starred opposite Chuck Connors in Geronimo (1962) and The Three Stooges in The Outlaws Is Coming (1965), and also appeared in the science fiction film Robinson Crusoe on Mars (1964).

He voiced parodied versions of himself in the animated television sitcoms The Fairly OddParents (2003–2008), The Simpsons (1992, 2002), and Family Guy (2000–2019). In the latter, he played Mayor Adam West between the second and seventeenth seasons. He received a television star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2012.

Early life
Adam West was born William West Anderson on September 19, 1928, in Walla Walla, Washington. His father, Otto Anderson (1903–1984) was a farmer descending from Scania in southern Sweden; and his mother, Audrey Volenne (née Speer; 1906–1969) was an opera singer and concert pianist who left her Hollywood dreams to care for her family. Following her example, as a young man West told his father that he intended to go to Hollywood after completing school. He moved to Seattle with his mother when he was 15, following his parents' divorce.

West attended Walla Walla High School during his freshman and sophomore years and later enrolled in Lakeside School in Seattle. He attended Whitman College but studied at the University of Puget Sound during the fall semester of 1949. He graduated with a bachelor's degree in literature and a minor in psychology from Whitman College, where he was a member of the Gamma Zeta Chapter of the Beta Theta Pi fraternity. He also participated on the speech and debate team.

Drafted into the U.S. Army during the Korean War, he served as an announcer on American Forces Network television. After his discharge, he worked as a milkman before moving to Hawaii to pursue a career in television.

Early roles
While in Hawaii, West was picked for a role as the sidekick on a local TV program, The Kini Popo Show, which also featured a chimp named Peaches. West later took over as host of the show. In 1959, West moved with his wife and two children to Hollywood, where he took the stage name Adam West.

He appeared in the film The Young Philadelphians which starred Paul Newman. He had guest-star roles in a number of television Westerns. On three Warner Bros. Television westerns which aired on ABC—Sugarfoot, Colt .45, and Lawman—West played the role of Doc Holliday, the frontier dentist and gunfighter. West also appeared playing different characters in two episodes of Maverick opposite James Garner: "Two Tickets to Ten Strike" and "A Fellow's Brother" in 1958. He guest starred in Warner Bros. detective series Hawaiian Eye and Bourbon Street Beat.

1960s–1980s
On January 10, 1961, West appeared as a young, ambitious deputy who foolishly confronts a gunfighter named Clay Jackson, portrayed by Jock Mahoney, in the episode "The Man from Kansas" of the NBC Western series Laramie. He played Christopher Rolf in the episode "Stopover" of ABC's The Rifleman, which aired on April 25, 1961.

West made two guest appearances on Perry Mason in 1961 and 1962. His first role was as small-town journalist Dan Southern in "The Case of the Barefaced Witness". His other role was as folk singer Pete Norland in "The Case of the Bogus Books".

In 1959-1962 he became a regular on the American television series Robert Taylor's Detectives in its third season.

He made a brief appearance in the 1963 film Soldier in the Rain starring Jackie Gleason and Steve McQueen, and starred as Colonel Dan McCready, the ill-fated mission commander of Mars Gravity Probe 1 in the 1964 film Robinson Crusoe on Mars. That same year he was cast alongside William Shatner in the pilot for the proposed series Alexander the Great, playing Cleander to Shatner's Alexander. The series was not picked up and the pilot wasn't broadcast until 1968 when it was repackaged as a TV film to capitalize on West and Shatner's later fame. West was apparently unsurprised by the rejection, later noting that "It turned out to be one of the worst scripts I have ever read and it was one of the worst things I've ever done."

In 1964, West played Dr. Clayton Harris, a handsome, young physician in two episodes of the sitcom Petticoat Junction. In the same year West starred in an episode of the ABC Outer Limits series titled "The Invisible Enemy". December 10, 1964, an episode of Bewitched titled “Love is Blind” was released, in which West played Kermit, an artist who marries Gertrude.

In 1965, he was cast in the comedy Western The Outlaws Is Coming, starring The Three Stooges. In the same year he starred in Mara of the Wilderness and in the Spaghetti Western The Relentless Four.

Batman
Producer William Dozier cast West as Bruce Wayne and his alter ego, Batman, in the television series Batman, in part after seeing West perform as the James Bond-like spy Captain Q in a Nestlé Quik commercial. He was in competition with Lyle Waggoner for the Batman role.

The popular campy show ran on ABC from 1966 to 1968; a feature-length film version directed by Leslie H. Martinson was released in 1966.

In 1966, West released a novelty song Miranda as his Batman character.

Also in character, West appeared in a public service announcement in which he encouraged schoolchildren to heed then-President Lyndon B. Johnson's call for them to buy U.S. savings stamps, a children's version of U.S. savings bonds, to support the Vietnam War.

In 1970, West was considered for the role of James Bond by producer Albert Broccoli for the film Diamonds Are Forever.

Post-Batman career
After his high-profile role, West, along with Burt Ward and Yvonne Craig (who played crime-fighting sidekicks Robin and Batgirl), was typecast; all three found it difficult to find other roles. West's first post-Caped Crusader role was in the film The Girl Who Knew Too Much (1969). His lead performance against type as cynical tough guy Johnny Cain did not erode his Batman image; the film was a box office disappointment.

For a time, West made a living from personal appearances as Batman. In 1974, when Ward and Craig reprised their Batman roles for a TV public-service announcement about equal pay for women, West did not participate; instead, Dick Gautier appeared as Batman. One of West's most memorable Batman appearances, after the series had ended, was with the Memphis-based United States Wrestling Association, where he engaged in a war of words with Jerry "The King" Lawler while wearing the cowl and a tracksuit, and even name-dropping Spider-Man.

West subsequently appeared in the theatrical films The Marriage of a Young Stockbroker (1971), The Specialist (1975), Hooper (as himself; 1978), The Happy Hooker Goes Hollywood (1980), One Dark Night (1983) and Young Lady Chatterley II (1985). West also appeared in such television films as The Eyes of Charles Sand (1972), Poor Devil (1973), Nevada Smith (1975), For the Love of It (1980) and I Take These Men (1983).

West split his time between residences in Palm Springs, California, and Ketchum, Idaho.

He did guest shots on the television series Maverick; Diagnosis: Murder; Love, American Style; Bonanza; The Big Valley; Night Gallery; Alias Smith and Jones; Mannix, Emergency!; Alice; Police Woman; Operation Petticoat; The American Girls; Vega$; Big Shamus, Little Shamus; Laverne & Shirley; Bewitched; Fantasy Island; The Love Boat; Hart to Hart; Zorro; The King of Queens; and George Lopez. West was also in an episode of Bonanza that supposedly never aired until reruns were shown and he made several guest appearances as himself on Family Feud. In 1986, he starred in the comedy police series titled The Last Precinct.

Return to Batman
West often reprised his role as Batman/Bruce Wayne, first in the short-lived animated series The New Adventures of Batman, and in other shows such as The Batman/Tarzan Adventure Hour, Tarzan and the Super 7, Super Friends: The Legendary Super Powers Show and The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians (succeeding original Super Friends Batman voice Olan Soule in the role). In 1979, West once again donned the Batsuit for the live-action TV special Legends of the Superheroes. In 1985, DC Comics named West as one of the honorees in the company's 50th-anniversary publication Fifty Who Made DC Great for his work on the Batman series.

West was considered to play Thomas Wayne, Bruce Wayne's father, in Tim Burton's 1989 Batman film. Originally, he wanted to play Batman. He was also a voice actor in various Batman-related animated series and films in addition to other projects connected to the TV series. West also guest starred in the Batman: The Animated Series episode "Beware the Gray Ghost" as Simon Trent, a washed-up actor who used to play a superhero in a TV series called The Gray Ghost and who now has difficulty finding work. He reprised his role of Batman in the Animaniacs episode "Boo Wonder" Season 5, Episode 3 of Animaniacs.

West even suited up one final time in the full Batman outfit in 1997 for a photo session for TV Treasures magazine #1 titled "Adam West Remembers 30 Years of Batman". He had a recurring role as the voice of Mayor Grange in the 2004-2008 WB animated series The Batman. West was the voice of Batman in the 2005 animated short film Batman: New Times. He co-starred with Mark Hamill, who vocally portrayed The Joker and had originally played the role on Batman: The Animated Series. West also voiced Thomas Wayne in a 2010 episode, "Chill of the Night!", of the cartoon series Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

In 2015, Adam West and Burt Ward announced that they would be reprising their roles as Batman and Robin (along with Julie Newmar as Catwoman) for two animated features to celebrate the oncoming 50th anniversary of the TV series. The first, Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders was actually released in theaters for one day on October 10, 2016 prior to being released on DVD and Blu-ray. The second, Batman vs. Two-Face co-starring William Shatner as Two-Face was released on October 10, 2017, four months after West's death.

1990s–2000s
During the 1990s, West's status as a pop culture icon led to appearances as himself in the film Drop Dead Gorgeous and in several TV series, including NewsRadio, Murphy Brown, The Adventures of Pete & Pete, The Ben Stiller Show, and The Drew Carey Show. He notably appeared as "Dr. Wayne" in the 1990 Zorro episode "The Wizard", even being shown Zorro's "secret cave" headquarters. In 1991, he starred in the pilot episode of Lookwell, in which he portrayed a has-been TV action hero who falsely believes he can solve mysteries in real life. The pilot, written by Conan O'Brien and Robert Smigel in their pre-Late Night period, aired on NBC that summer, but was not picked up as a series. It was later broadcast on the Trio channel, under the "Brilliant But Cancelled" block. In 1994, West played a non-comedic role as the father of Peter Weller's character in the Michael Tolkin film The New Age.

He played a washed-up superhero in the Goosebumps television series episode "Attack of the Mutant". The boy hero is a comic book geek whose favorite superhero, Galloping Gazelle (West's character), is portrayed as fading and on the verge of retirement. Towards the end, the boy is shocked to learn that the Gazelle is real, though he (the boy) must save the day by himself.

In 1994, West, with Jeff Rovin, wrote his autobiography, Back to the Batcave published by Berkeley Books. In 1997, Virgin Interactive released the gambling simulation game Golden Nugget. West acted in the video cut scenes of the "Chaos Mystery" storyline subgame. In 2001, he played the super-villain Breathtaker on the short-lived television series Black Scorpion.

In 2003, West and Burt Ward starred in the television film Return to the Batcave: The Misadventures of Adam and Burt, alongside Frank Gorshin, Julie Newmar, and Lee Meriwether. Jack Brewer portrayed West in flashbacks to the production of Batman. In 2005, West appeared in the CBS show The King of Queens. In the episode, Spence first asks Lou Ferrigno to go to a sci-fi convention, but when Spence meets West (playing himself), he leaves Ferrigno and asks West to come with him. He appears prominently in the 2006 video for California band STEFY's song "Chelsea" as "Judge Adam West", presiding over the courtroom scene.

In 2007, West appeared in a recurring role on George Lopez, as an attorney for George's mother, and he starred as "The Boss" in the comedy film Sexina: Popstar PI. Following the release of a Batman game, a host of the show X-Play visited West on the show. In 2009, West played himself in the episode "Apollo, Apollo" of 30 Rock.

2010s
In 2010, a Golden Palm Star on the Palm Springs Walk of Stars was dedicated to him. West received the 2,468th star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame on April 5, 2012. His star is located at 6764 Hollywood Boulevard in front of the Guinness Museum in Hollywood, California.

West appeared in a number of videos for Funnyordie.com.

He was interviewed in 2013 on the PBS series called Pioneers of Television in the season-three episode called "Superheroes". Also in 2013, he was the subject of the documentary Starring Adam West.

West is among the interview subjects in Superheroes: A Never-Ending Battle, a three-hour documentary narrated by Liev Schreiber that premiered on PBS in October 2013.

In February 2016, West guest-starred as himself on the 200th episode of The Big Bang Theory.

In January 2017, West appeared on the British comedy panel show "Through the Keyhole" in which viewers and panellists looked around West's Los Angeles home by video.

Walla Walla, Washington, Adam West's hometown, officially celebrates its annual "Adam West Day" on September 19, with the first one celebrated in 2017.

Voice-over work and advertising
Having a distinctive voice, West built a career doing voice-over work on a number of animated series (often as himself), including appearances on The Simpsons, Futurama, Rugrats, Histeria!, Kim Possible, and Johnny Bravo.

He also appeared in many episodes of Nickelodeon's cartoon The Fairly OddParents as a cat-obsessed version of himself, who is famous for playing a superhero called Catman, and who actually believes he is Catman. His later appearance in The Fairly OddParents was a parody of himself, hired to play the role of the Crimson Chin in the film of the same name. Yet another appearance on the show had him as himself in a fairy-sponsored video about how to cope with losing one's fairy godparents. After West's death, he was replaced by Jeff Bennett.

In 1997, West appeared in a national television advertising campaign for Ziebart.

From 2000, West made regular appearances on the animated series Family Guy, on which he played the fictional character of the same name, who was the lunatic mayor of Quahog, Rhode Island. His role brought West a new wave of popularity post-Batman, and lead writer Seth MacFarlane claims to have gone out of his way to avoid typecasting West by deliberately not making any references to Batman.

Some of his last voice-over performances were playing the role of Uncle Art in the Disney Animation film Meet the Robinsons, and voicing the young Mermaid Man (along with Burt Ward, who voiced the young Barnacle Boy) in the cartoon show SpongeBob SquarePants, in the episode "Back to the Past" in 2010.

West also played the voice of General Carrington in the video game XIII, and voiced other video games such as Marc Eckō's Getting Up: Contents Under Pressure, Chicken Little: Ace in Action, Scooby-Doo! Unmasked, and Goosebumps: Attack of the Mutant.

In November 2014, West voiced himself, the 1960s version of Batman, and the Gray Ghost in the video game Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham.

In 2016, West was the voice of TV's Batman for the Batman '66 pinball game produced by Stern Pinball Incorporated.

West also did voice-over work for superhero-themed commercials for the investment firm LendingTree and television commercials for Hebrew National hot dogs.

Personal life
West was married three times. His first marriage was to his college girlfriend Billie Lou Yeager in 1950. The couple divorced six years later. In 1957, he married Cook Island dancer Ngatokorua Frisbie Dawson, part of the Puka Puka Otea in Hawaii. They had two children before their divorce in 1962. West then married Marcelle Tagand Lear in November 1970. They had two children and remained together for more than 46 years, until West's death. West also had two step-children.

During the Batman television series, West's relationship with co-star Burt Ward was jokingly described as "problematic". He said, "Burt fell victim to making up stories to sell books. But in a way it was flattering, because he made me sound like King Kong." West also said that he played Batman "for laughs, but in order to do [that], one had to never think it was funny. You just had to pull on that cowl and believe that no one would recognize you." Also during the Batman series, he became close friends with crossover co-star Van Williams, who played The Green Hornet. The two of them were also neighbors for a while and spent much time together outdoors, including fishing and hunting.

Death
On June 9, 2017, West died from leukemia in Los Angeles at the age of 88. In a statement, his former Batman co-star and longtime friend Burt Ward said: "This is a terribly unexpected loss of my lifelong friend, I will forever miss him. There are several fine actors who have portrayed Batman in films. In my eyes, there was only one real Batman that is and always will be Adam West. He was truly the Bright Knight."Batman: The Animated Series actor Kevin Conroy (who performed alongside West in the episode "Beware the Gray Ghost") said: "Adam West was an incredibly good, generous actor. Loved working with him as Gray Ghost. A true gentleman."On June 15, 2017, Los Angeles projected the Bat-Signal on City Hall as a tribute to West, and in his hometown of Walla Walla, Washington, the Bat-Signal was shone upon the landmark Whitman Tower.

West had pre-recorded five more Family Guy episodes as Mayor Adam West, which were released posthumously as part of the sixteenth season. He also recorded the 11th episode of Powerless, which never aired due to the show's cancellation. NBC aired the episode online after West's death.

West's last public appearances were from March to April 2017 at the NorthEast ComicCon & Collectibles Extravaganza in Hanover, Massachusetts, where he was the guest of honor,  Fan Expo Dallas, and  Silicon Valley Comic Con.

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Talk:Rockdale County, Georgia

"The Lost Children of Rockdale County"
I'd never heard of this county (being from California and now Texas) until I just heard about PBS's 1999 documentary of the above name. It was a sensationalistic account of a teen-party scene where a group of "troubled" girls had sex with groups of white and black teen boys (separately) at homes and a motel, leading to a cluster of syphilis cases. Is this worth mentioning as a miscellaneous topic about the county? The documentary was a national phenomenon for a while (concerned parents and adults, including Dr. Phil, worrying about the teen sex craze, particularly oral sex); this tied in with the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky oral-sex publicity. Did County leaders address this publicity black-eye? Has the documentary had any lasting effect on the county? Just wondering, as an outsider, whether this deserves a mention on the page.

Spooty3 18:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I've lived here since the 1970s and the PBS show has been pretty much forgotten about here. The town has grown (and continues to grow) at a rapid rate since the days of that special. I think the major issue around town these days is traffic congestion.

I'm from metro Atlanta, although not Rockdale County. I was also surprised not to see the documentary mentioned in the article, because it did create a national discourse about teen sex. It was pretty memorable as well; I always think of it when I drive through the county, unfortunate as that is for Rockdale, and I still hear folks joke about it a decade later. Still, many people, especially those relatively new to the state, don't know anything about it, and those events could have happened anywhere in the country. It was a mistake for PBS to put so much emphasis on Rockdale County in the documentary. They obviously could have mentioned it, but did it really have to be in the title? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.89.133 (talk) 14:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Salem Campground Tents
What is this doing in an article on Rockdale county? I moved it here. 1. Jenkins Tent 2. Thorp/Grayson Tent 3. Plunkett Tent 4. Doster Tent 5. Tom Elliot Jr./Drew Elliot Tent 6. Cook Tent 7. Gardner/Langford Tent 8. Head Tent 9. John Cowan Tent 10. Barnett Tent 11. Amy and Daniel Morgan Tent 12. Bill Rogers Tent 13. Bellefeuille/Russell Tent 14. Kemp Tent 15. J.T. Hicks Tent 16. Bob H. Elliot Tent 17. Vaughn Tent 18. Cowan Tent 19. Anslee Ogletree Tent 20. Atkinson/Kincaid/Wunder Tent 21. Cunningham/Ramsey Tent 22. Ellington Tent 23. Don Ogletree Tent 24. Tanner/Ingle Tent 25. Parks-Hicks Tent 26. Caretakers Cottage Rearden9 13:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Police State
Just a warning to visitors, the police presence feels like it's tripled in the past few years and it has become the speed trap from hell. Drive through here at your own risk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.229.74.164 (talk) 21:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Let me give you another warning, criminals have moved here in mass so we need a stong law enforcement presence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.138.71 (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Removal of election data
I've started a discussion about one editor's unilateral removal of presidential election data from this article on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States page. Feel free to discuss this matter either here or there, but please don't unilaterally change a longstanding consensus without reaching agreement among editors to do so first. Chessrat ( talk, contributions ) 04:12, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rockdale County, Georgia


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Talk:Schley County, Georgia

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Talk:Screven County, Georgia

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Talk:Seminole County, Georgia

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Talk:Spalding County, Georgia

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Talk:Stephens County, Georgia

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Talk:Stewart County, Georgia

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External links modified
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Talk:Sumter County, Georgia

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New Georgia Encyclopedia project is underway
The New Georgia Encyclopedia ("NGE") has authorized Wikipedia to import and/or merge ten articles, which I have copied to project space; one of these is WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)/New Georgia Encyclopedia/Sumter County, Georgia.

Our goal is to get the NGE articles in top shape and merge or move them into mainspace as quickly as possible. If this turns out well (as I am confident it will), the NGE will permit us to import their remaining body of over 2,000 well-researched and well-written articles, which could pioneer a trend for other private owners of encyclopedic content to release their materials into our corpus. I would deeply appreciate any help that we can muster in accomplishing this. Please note that the original NGE article (linked in the required attribution section of the above article in project space) has images, but NGE is unable to convey those to us at this time, as they are individually licensed by NGE. Also, please note that the NGE would like for us to parallel, to the extent possible, their selection of internal links (where they link to an internal NGE article, they would like for us to also link to our equivalent Wikipedia article). Cheers! bd2412 T 19:25, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sumter County, Georgia


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Talk:Talbot County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Talbot County, Georgia


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Talk:Taliaferro County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Taliaferro County, Georgia


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Talk:Tattnall County, Georgia

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To add to article
To add to this article: Vidalia onions are grown there. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:44, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tattnall County, Georgia


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Talk:Telfair County, Georgia

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Talk:Terrell County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Terrell County, Georgia


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Talk:Thomas County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Thomas County, Georgia


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Talk:Tift County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Tift County, Georgia


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Talk:Toombs County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Toombs County, Georgia


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Talk:Towns County, Georgia

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Talk:Treutlen County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Treutlen County, Georgia


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Talk:Troup County, Georgia

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The Name
Should it be noted in the article that LaGrange is French for "The Farm", I think it could be as it's a nice little tidbit.

title: Talk:Troup County, Georgia


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Talk:Turner County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Turner County, Georgia


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Talk:Twiggs County, Georgia

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Dry Branch
I've added the "city" of Dry Branch since it is part of Twiggs County. Though it is not technically a city, it is listed as such on maps and is also listed in List of cities in Georgia, USA so it should be added here.

title: Talk:Twiggs County, Georgia


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Talk:Union County, Georgia

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Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry? The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help. Union County is a damp county, alcohol sale is not prohibited. The license to sale is just expensive to obtain because of Conservative Christains and so people have to go to neighboring counties to obtain alcoholic beverages which puts them and others at risk, when they drive back, possibly under the influence.67.140.194.200 (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Union County, Georgia


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Talk:Upson County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Upson County, Georgia


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Talk:Walker County, Georgia

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"Walker County is a county located in the state of Georgia. As of 2000, the population is 61,053. The county's county seat is LaFayette, Georgia6. The Tri-State crematory was formerly located in the Noble community, north of LaFayette."

Mention of the crematory seems out of place. I live in LaFayette, just a few miles away from Noble, so I recognize the signifigance. But many people may not.69.40.86.24 08:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Walker County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Walton County, Georgia

Courthouse architectural style

 * Courthouse architectural style is 'New Empire'.

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New evidence collected in 1946 lynching case

 * New evidence collected in 1946 lynching case Ling.Nut (WP:3IAR) 09:29, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Lynching information needs to be placed under lyching era type entries with redirection to Walton County, Georgia. The Moore's Ford lynching took place during the civil rights era at the old ford that is no longer in existence along the county line far to the east. The neighboring county is just as much of a location to the incident. The Walton County, Georgia entry is for statistical Greater Atlanta demographical and property values information and not a target for contemporary Southern Poverty Law activists, students, or others. There are legal evidence suits still in place by the families. However, please do feel free to include those findings under lynching era articles.Ncsr11 (talk) 18:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

 * The History section of county articles is typically filled with information about settlement, economy, wars, memorials, and re-enactments. It is totally appropriate to add this sourced content about a major group of citizens, their treatment after the Civil War, and a nationally covered lynching and later investigation, re-enactment and memorial.Parkwells (talk) 15:26, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I agree, it's just not for major breaking news events that could attack the county or cover strife as a news agenda. I added geo-coordinates to the Moore's Ford article

title: Talk:Walton County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Ware County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Ware County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Warren County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Warren County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Washington County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Washington County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Wayne County, Georgia

History
What a curious history section here. I got some laughs out of reading it, but I have to wonder whether it gets a little carried away with the colorful metaphors... Pfly 11:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Mecca Circle Compound

Old news. WSB did an yellow journalism piece on a slow news day, and the YOU TUBE video was e-mailed around. That community is in the middle of nowhere. Blah blah, blah blah blah.

 * Removed the Mecca Circle Compound: it looked suspicious, it was poorly written, and there was no source except for the unreliable YouTube. Nyttend (talk) 00:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

"...and it is the pine that has made Wayne County the pine tree infested place it is." The history section obviously still needs some work... Nogood (talk) 05:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wayne County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Webster County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Webster County, Georgia


text:
Talk:Wheeler County, Georgia

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title: Talk:Wheeler County, Georgia


text:
Talk:White County, Georgia

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title: Talk:White County, Georgia