text:
User talk:Marco Neves

Hello, Marco Neves. Welcome to Wikipedia.

A few tips for you to start going. (I'll send more if I see that I can help you :-)

 * Just edit stuff off the cuff for a while. We like that fine!
 * When you have time, check out Welcome, newcomers + the links in there.
 * You can sign your stuff on talk pages with ~ It will convert to your username + the time. "anon" is fine too.
 * If puzzled, put a question on Village pump, or feel free to ask me on my talk page if it's a very general question.
 * Most of all, have fun but take our work seriously!

-- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 15:48 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Olá Marco! Que giro ver aqui um portugues! Eu sou só meio portuguesa (pai dinamarques). Espero que continues com a página do 25 de Abril. Fica bem. Muriel Gottrop 14:20 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Please see discustion at Talk:People's Republic of China - Efghij 20:54, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Please stop adding in the bad link to Mandarin. The correct link is Mandarin Chinese. --Jiang

--- Al Gore only won the popualar vote because of a fluke. The liberal media called Florida for Gore (while they were still voting!) and that discouraged Bush voters and kept them away from the polls. Had that not happened, Bush would have won by 5%, like all the polls were predicting. JoeM

Good idea moving the politcal discussion on User:JoeM/ban to his talk page.Vancouverguy

Hello Marco. I couldn't find any of your comments about my "bold statements". What were they? I am curious.

If it is you who moved the page to Valencian Community, will you please fix the links? (I didn't much care for Comunidad Valenciana, but would have preferred Valencia (autonomous community).) - Montréalais 05:22, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I'll do it, piece by piece, ok? :)
 * p.s. oh, and thank you for your edits to my edits on the rest of the CC.AA. as well :) -Montréalais
 * You're welcome! Cheers!

Olá Marco, já cá 'tou de volta a um pais interessante mas não tão bom como o nosso. Grande tempo para praia, tirando a parte dos incêndios… Queria pedir-te para dares uma vista de olhos na minha nova entrada na wiki: Battle of Aljubarrota. Era para saber a tua opinião e convidar-te a fazer correcções e acrescentos. Fica bem. Muriel

Tudo bem, não é algo que me interesse particularmente, nem um pouco, apenas transcrevi o que li. Claro que os catalães estavam mais interessados no Além-Pirinéus (ou seja, França). No entanto, as coisas não são tão lineares, tenho tentado encontrar autores catalães ou aragoneses, ou outros, mas é complicado. A ligação de Aragão a Portugal é conhecida e bem antiga, no entanto! No livro que tenho, nada sobre a nacionalidade dos poetas é dito. É uma questão pequena e se calhar desnecessária. Acho que a página Portuguese language já está acima da média, precisa de ser melhorada em alguns aspectos, principalmente "sounds" e "grammar". Agora estou a investigar para Portuguese Creole e também já estou a pedir ajuda a amigos do Brasil para me ajudar nos dialectos Portugueses, que tal como eu pensava são mais unificados que o que parecem ser. E, a riqueza dialectal Portuguesa é muito variada.Pedro 01:09, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Pois quanto ao Português do Brasil, aquilo de Crioulo não tem nada. Sei porque aprendi algum crioulo, até já falei crioulo com caboverdianos. O que os Brasileiros falam difere muito pouco do Português falado em Portugal, quanto aquilo do que era colocado naquela página, sei quem deve ter escrito isso, é um Americano que tem um site na net com xenofobia a Portugal, digo-lhe Portugal não é nada daquilo caso tenha visto. Ele faz isso, porque acho que os filhos dele, por escreverem na variedade brasileira e que a professora considerou erro, a falta dos "c" e "p" mudos, etc. Ele para se vingar criou aquele site e vem para a net dizer estas parvoíces por onde consegue espalhar, é o portcult. Se fosse lê o site dele, fica totalmente horrorizado em relação ao que diz sobre a língua portuguesa e ao país que é Portugal e uma pessoa que não conheça o país acha que aquilo é verdade. É um velho caduco. Não pretendo unificar língua nenhuma, sou pela lógica e pela razão.Com o galego pode haver dúvidas, mas o que se fala no Brasil é tão Português como o de qualquer parte de Portugal. Abraços.Pedro

Andorra is a country not a nation. They have two everydiffreent meanings. There are many nations that are not countries (such as Kurdistan) and there are many countries that are not nations (such as Belgium). Catalan is not an international language as it is a regional dialect in Spain co-official with Spanish and French in Andorra. As Catalan is just a dialect of Spanish I can't really see how you would vendicate calling it an "international language". Irish is spoke all over the word by immigrants "in many independent nations" but that's not an international language.Saluedo 04:26, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I also have a university qualification in languages and live in Barcelona. The basic fact is, if Catalan was a real language why do I sa an English speaker have no trouble understanding it. I do not know a single Andalusian or South American who has any trouble with the strange dialect on the people here. You can stack you linguistics up but at the end of the day, Catalan is no more a language that Ulster-Scots or Lollards are in English. I know it's painful and you guys are very jealous of the Basques who do have a real language to go with their independence claims. I guess you guys will have to be happy with your Estatut. Saluedo 04:41, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Some arguments regarding the subject, in order to clarify the question:
 * Most Spaniards don't understand Catalan (I've met lots of them). That's the reason TVE subtitles Catalan speech. You do understand it, but don't forget you live in Barcelona and you're a student of languages.
 * I've met many Spaniards who don't like Catalonia but do not deny (they couldn't) that Catalan is a language.
 * Recognising Catalan language does not mean recognising any kind of Catalan "independence" or right to independence. Catalonia is a Spanish region, no doubt. But that does not mean anything regarding linguistic situation of Catalan.
 * I've studied both Spanish and Catalan and I found no problem learning Spanish grammar; Catalan grammar was completely different.
 * Vowel system in Catalan is quite complex, Spanish has only 5 vowels, phonologically speaking.
 * Verb roots (the best criterion to divide languages) are different, in many important cases: voler/querer, manjar/comer, parlar/hablar, etc.
 * Once again, Catalan developed before and separately from Spanish, so it's not a question if it is a language or not.

I really didn't think this was necessary. I've always learnt that Catalan status was a closed question.

(Answer in User talk:Saluedo page)

Best regards, Marco Neves

Portuguese culture
When I say "Portuguese culture" I reffer to colonial period. --Mateusc 22:54, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

RE: Azores
Hi there; I hope you're well. Thanks for your response and information; I appreciate it. In addition for my informational value, my request was more spawned out of a desire to accurately shade these island groups on the continental locator image maps. For these, I will now colourise the Azores as belonging to Europe (due to proximity) and Madeira to Africa. Thanks again! E Pluribus Anthony 19:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Hispanophone
Hello, I have improve the map Image:Spanish Speaking Map.PNG into the map Image:Map-Hispanophone World 2000.png, what are your thinking about this ? I'm open to every argumented improvement :]. See you Yug   21:20, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hello again, see on the right the 3 maps present. Image:Map-Hispanophone World 2000.png is present on commons, so this map is use by several other articles in others languages.
 * I think a good think should be to use "my" USA light green, for your map too.
 * but... please update my map, on commons, like that we can work on one map, and for all the wikipedias.
 * Moreover, I think one important point is the fact than some people talk about "official spanish countries", which have low which say "USA second language is spanish" (this is just an exemple, I don't know if this kind of law exist), and other talking "where spanish is really widely speak".
 * so, I think we need 2 maps, one showing where spanish is really widely speak ( => Image:Map-Hispanophone World 2000.png), the other showing where it's officialy use ( => Image:Spanish_Speaking_Map.PNG, renamed Image:Map-Spanish language official countries.png and upload on http://commons.wikimedia.org ).
 * Think you this way is better ? Yug
 * Thanks for your answer. Now, I will upload the map Image:Spanish_Speaking_Map.PNG on commons with the name Image:Map-Spanish language official countries.png, and I will ask again to delete this map Spanish_Speaking_Map.PNG ( which was delete last week, and then upload again by XGustaX ). I think than, by this way, that will be less conflicting.  bye Yug   17:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Brazil
wow then you clearly dont know. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/br.html#People Clearly states Spanish as a one of the Lanuages of Brazil but it is not offical. Please dont not be bias just because your from Brazil.

You are clearly mistaken
lol ok right... you dont know about how many french and Spaniards came to Brazil to immigrate to Brazil. So its pretty obvious you are compeletly bull shitting everything you are saying. YOu still have have no creditable source to state your facts? the admins will see my way now.

Then why does the CIA world fact book state so? lol i know there are people who speak spanish everywhere but for being the SECOND on the list of Brazils lagnuages surpasses the "there are no spanish speaking communities." Thing is i got a GOVERMENT source you are just speaking from nothing. As for having no arguments if your going to completly not listen to me of course to you im not going to have anything to say lol. I do have facts. This also makes sense because Brazil is sorounded by Spanish Speaking countries.

wow then you clearly dont know. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/br.html#People Clearly states Spanish as a one of the Lanuages of Brazil but it is not offical. Please dont not be bias just because your from Brazil. You dont know what you are talking about if you say "Brazil has NO Spanish Speaking commuinities. Igorance shows on the subject. You seem really biaist because you speak portuguese your self?
 * Hello Marco, don´t mind of him, we are walking in the good way, people have choice the middle way of our map, so that fine ^0^y Yug   00:49, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

argh its pointless
Fine will you be freaking happy if i just just remove brazil.

Dear, Marco Neves
I understand were you are coming from, and Im sorry If I offended you in any way. I will take your advice and create an acount. I just feel that that the article is to long but I guess sense you are an expert and Im not as talented as you are I will take your advice. You have advanced in literature and other studies while i'm still in grade school. Well I guess I'll take your advice Thank You for your time

Best wishes y Gracias por todo amigo

24.49.248.115

Wikipedia in Tetum

 * Help building a Wikipedia in Tetum, the national language of East Timor. Give your contribution to the improvement of its test page -- Regards, 195.23.53.121 11:09, 15 February 2006 (UTC) Manuel de Sousa

Olá, Marcos! Concordo com você quando diz que o Português que se fala no Brasil é a mesma língua de Portugal
Eu sou brasileiro e, mais do qualquer americano, posso falar sobre a língua que se fala no Brasil, o nosso português. Há muita bobagem escrita lá na discussão do Brazilian Portuguese, coisa de gente que não vive no Brasil, que não fala e nem escreve em português. Um fato não podemos negar: o português do Brasil é uma variedade da língua portuguesa, e o de Portugal outra, mas me cite uma grande língua em que isso não acontece? (O inglês dos Estados Unidos é uma variante da língua inglesa, assim como o inglês britânico uma outra.) O fato é que o português do Brasil é mais arcaico que o de Portugal, e nada mais. Vocês preferem está a chover e nós do Brasil está chovendo, mas e daí? Certamente você entende o que eu digo, e eu o que você diz. Há algo de errado em preferir gerúndio a infinitivo, ou infinitivo a gerúndio? Certamente, não há.

Um abraço!

(Ah, só mais uma coisa! Como sei que você ama a língua portuguesa, leia "Grande Sertão: veredas", de Guimarães Rosa. Não há prosa em língua portuguesa mais elaborada do que essa.)

Portal de Portugal
Já abriu o Portal de Portugal na Wikipedia! Junta-te a nós para trabalharmos em prol de artigos, listas e imagens relacionadas com Portugal. No portal, encontrarás um artigo geral, um artigo biográfico, um artigo geográfico e uma imagem todas as semanas em destaque. Para além disso estão apresentadas também secções de Notícias, Curiosidades, Listas, Citações, Opentasks, informação sobre artigos recentes, etc. Futuramente teremos um WikiProject para geografia de Portugal (de modo a estandardizar todos os artigos relativos às localidades e divisões administrativas portuguesas), história de Portugal, biografias, e possivelmente desporto. Também temos em vista a criação de uma Colaboração Semanal para artigos sobre Portugal. Por isto, e tudo mais, pedimos-te que venhas ajudar-nos. Estamos também à procura de colaboradores, por isso, se estiveres interessado, é só pedires que já estás no grupo de manutenção do portal. Saudações! Gameiro 20:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

from learnportuguese
Hi! :) I'm really interested in the Portuguese language. I found your page through the talk page of an article on Brazilian Portuguese. Just put a watch on my user page and talk page if you want. I am American, by the way. Um, if i get this right, Quero aprender Português porque quero ser jornalista (for radio). :) learnportuguese 23:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Marco Neves


text:
Don Foster, Baron Foster of Bath

Donald Michael Ellison Foster, Baron Foster of Bath (born 31 March 1947), is a British politician and life peer who served as Government Deputy Chief Whip and Comptroller of the Household from 2013 to 2015. A member of the Liberal Democrats, he was Member of Parliament (MP) for Bath from 1992 to 2015.

Early life
Foster was born in Preston, Lancashire, and attended the Lancaster Royal Grammar School before Keele University where he was awarded a BSc degree in physics and psychology in 1969, and also received the CertEd that same year. He later received an MEd in education at the University of Bath in 1981.

He was a science teacher at Sevenoaks School in Kent in 1969, before appointment as Avon Education Authority's Science Project Director in 1975 and as a Lecturer in Education at Bristol University in 1980, before being engaged as a management consultant with Pannell Kerr Forster from 1989 until his election to the House of Commons.

Parliamentary career
A local party activist, he was a founder member of the Avon Liberal Democrats and was elected as a Councillor on Avon County Council in 1981 for Cabot Ward, and was the SDP–Liberal Alliance Group Leader from 1981 to 1986. He also served as the county's education committee chairman, and remained a Councillor until 1989. He unsuccessfully contested Bristol East at the 1987 general election where he finished in third place, 11,659 votes behind the Conservative Jonathan Sayeed.

He was first elected in the constituency of Bath at the 1992 general election when he defeated then-Conservative Party Chairman, Chris Patten with a majority of 3,768. In his maiden speech on 12 May 1992, Foster spoke of the World Heritage Site status of Bath and sent his best wishes to Patten in Hong Kong.

In Parliament, Foster was the Liberal Democrat Spokesman for Education under the leadership of Paddy Ashdown in 1992, in which capacity he served until 1999.

In December 2010, in response to a call from the Football Supporters' Federation, he introduced a Bill in Parliament for English and Welsh football safe standing areas, the first of its kind since the Taylor Report.

Having been sworn of the Privy Council in 2010, in September 2012 Foster was appointed Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government before being promoted in October 2013 as Government Deputy Chief Whip representing the Liberal Democrats in the Coalition.

In January 2014, Foster announced he would stand down as an MP at the following general election. He was created Baron Foster of Bath, of Bath in the County of Somerset, in the 2015 Dissolution Honours, becoming a member of the House of Lords. His Bath constituency was won by the Conservatives at the 2015 general election and regained by the Liberal Democrats in 2017.

Personal life
His interests include Third World issues, being a member of Amnesty International and the Child Poverty Action Group as well as supporting a number of local charities, including Ted's Big Day Out and Julian House. Lord Foster's main national charity is WaterAid and he has seen first hand their work in Ethiopia. He is a Vice-President of the Debating Group, and also enjoys sport, music, ballet, travelling and reading; Lord Foster also plays the ukulele.

Foster was nominated for a life peerage in August 2015, despite having previously favoured abolition of the House of Lords. When accused of hypocrisy, Foster stated: "I want to get rid of [the House of Lords] and the only way [to do that]...is having people there who will do just that."

Publications

 * Resource Based Learning in Science by Don Foster, 1979, Association for Science Education ISBN 0-902786-52-0
 * Science with Gas by Don Foster, 1981
 * Aspects of Science by Don Foster, 1984, Longman ISBN 0-201-14377-1
 * Reading about Science by Don Foster, 1984
 * Nuffield Science by Don Foster, 1986
 * Teaching Science 11–13 Edited by Don Foster, Cecil Powell and Roger Lock, 1987, Routledge ISBN 0-7099-4931-6
 * Education: Investing in Education by Don Foster, 1994, Liberal Democrat Publications ISBN 1-85187-243-4
 * Making the Right Start: Nursery Education and Care by Don Foster, 1994, Liberal Democrat Publications ISBN 1-85187-264-7
 * From the Three Rs to the Three Cs: A Personal View of Education by Don Foster, 2003 ISBN 0-9546078-0-5

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Don Foster, Baron Foster of Bath


text:
Perfect hash function

In computer science, a perfect hash function $h$ for a set $S$ is a hash function that maps distinct elements in $S$ to a set of $m$ integers, with no collisions. In mathematical terms, it is an injective function.

Perfect hash functions may be used to implement a lookup table with constant worst-case access time. A perfect hash function can, as any hash function, be used to implement hash tables, with the advantage that no collision resolution has to be implemented. In addition, if the keys are not in the data and if it is known that queried keys will be valid, then the keys do not need to be stored in the lookup table, saving space.

Disadvantages of perfect hash functions are that $S$ needs to be known for the construction of the perfect hash function. Non-dynamic perfect hash functions need to be re-constructed if $S$ changes. For frequently changing $S$ dynamic perfect hash functions may be used at the cost of additional space. The space requirement to store the perfect hash function is in $O(n)$ where $n$ is the number of keys in the structure.

The important performance parameters for perfect hash functions are the evaluation time, which should be constant, the construction time, and the representation size.

Application
A perfect hash function with values in a limited range can be used for efficient lookup operations, by placing keys from $S$ (or other associated values) in a lookup table indexed by the output of the function. One can then test whether a key is present in $S$, or look up a value associated with that key, by looking for it at its cell of the table. Each such lookup takes constant time in the worst case. With perfect hashing, the associated data can be read or written with a single access to the table.

Performance of perfect hash functions
The important performance parameters for perfect hashing are the representation size, the evaluation time, the construction time, and additionally the range requirement $$\frac{m}{n}$$ (average number of buckets per key in the hash table). The evaluation time can be as fast as $O(1)$, which is optimal. The construction time needs to be at least $O(n)$, because each element in $S$ needs to be considered, and $S$ contains $n$ elements. This lower bound can be achieved in practice.

The lower bound for the representation size depends on $m$ and $n$. Let $m = (1+ε) n$ and $h$ a perfect hash function. A good approximation for the lower bound is $$\log e - \varepsilon \log \frac{1+\varepsilon}{\varepsilon}$$ Bits per element. For minimal perfect hashing, $ε = 0$, the lower bound is $log e ≈ 1.44$ bits per element.

Construction
A perfect hash function for a specific set $S$ that can be evaluated in constant time, and with values in a small range, can be found by a randomized algorithm in a number of operations that is proportional to the size of S. The original construction of uses a two-level scheme to map a set $S$ of $n$ elements to a range of $O(n)$ indices, and then map each index to a range of hash values. The first level of their construction chooses a large prime $p$ (larger than the size of the universe from which $S$ is drawn), and a parameter $k$, and maps each element $x$ of $S$ to the index
 * $$g(x)=(kx\bmod p)\bmod n.$$

If $k$ is chosen randomly, this step is likely to have collisions, but the number of elements $n_{i}$ that are simultaneously mapped to the same index $i$ is likely to be small. The second level of their construction assigns disjoint ranges of $O(n_{i}^{2})$ integers to each index $i$. It uses a second set of linear modular functions, one for each index $i$, to map each member $x$ of $S$ into the range associated with $g(x)$.

As show, there exists a choice of the parameter $k$ such that the sum of the lengths of the ranges for the $n$ different values of $O(1)$ is $g(x)$. Additionally, for each value of $O(n)$, there exists a linear modular function that maps the corresponding subset of $S$ into the range associated with that value. Both $k$, and the second-level functions for each value of $g(x)$, can be found in polynomial time by choosing values randomly until finding one that works.

The hash function itself requires storage space $g(x)$ to store $k$, $p$, and all of the second-level linear modular functions. Computing the hash value of a given key $x$ may be performed in constant time by computing $O(n)$, looking up the second-level function associated with $g(x)$, and applying this function to $x$. A modified version of this two-level scheme with a larger number of values at the top level can be used to construct a perfect hash function that maps $S$ into a smaller range of length $g(x)$.

A more recent method for constructing a perfect hash function is described by as "hash, displace, and compress". Here a first-level hash function $g$ is also used to map elements onto a range of $r$ integers. An element $n + o(n)$ is stored in the Bucket $B_{g(x)}$.

Then, in descending order of size, each bucket's elements are hashed by a hash function of a sequence of independent fully random hash functions $x ∈ S$, starting with $(Φ_{1}, Φ_{2}, Φ_{3}, ...)$. If the hash function does not produce any collisions for the bucket, and the resulting values are not yet occupied by other elements from other buckets, the function is chosen for that bucket. If not, the next hash function in the sequence is tested.

To evaluate the perfect hash function $Φ_{1}$ one only has to save the mapping σ of the bucket index $h(x)$ onto the correct hash function in the sequence, resulting in $g(x)$.

Finally, to reduce the representation size, the ($h(x) = Φ_{σ(g(x))}$ are compressed into a form that still allows the evaluation in $σ(i))_{0 ≤ i < r}$.

This approach needs linear time in $n$ for construction, and constant evaluation time. The representation size is in $O(1)$, and depends on the achieved range. For example, with $O(n)$ achieved a representation size between 3.03 bits/key and 1.40 bits/key for their given example set of 10 million entries, with lower values needing a higher computation time. The space lower bound in this scenario is 0.88 bits/key.

Pseudocode
algorithm hash, displace, and compress is (1) Split S into buckets $m = 1.23n$ (2) Sort buckets Bi in falling order according to size |Bi| (3) Initialize array T[0...m-1] with 0's (4) for all i ∈[r], in the order from (2), do (5)    for l ← 1,2,... (6)        repeat forming Ki ← {$B_{i} := g^{−1}({i})∩S,0 ≤ i < r$l(x)|x ∈ Bi} (6)        until |Ki|=|Bi| and Ki∩{j|T[j]=1}= ∅ (7)    let σ(i):= the successful l (8)     for all j ∈ Ki let T[j]:= 1 (9) Transform (σi)0≤i<r into compressed form, retaining $Φ$ access.

Space lower bounds
The use of $O(1)$ words of information to store the function of is near-optimal: any perfect hash function that can be calculated in constant time requires at least a number of bits that is proportional to the size of $S$.

For minimal perfect hash functions the information theoretic space lower bound is
 * $$\log_2e\approx1.44$$

bits/key.

For perfect hash functions, it is first assumed that the range of $h$ is bounded by $n$ as $O(n)$. With the formula given by and for a universe $$U\supseteq S$$ whose size $m = (1+ε) n$ tends towards infinity, the space lower bounds is
 * $$\log_2e-\varepsilon \log\frac{1+\varepsilon}{\varepsilon}$$

bits/key, minus $|U| = u$ bits overall.

Memory address identity
A trivial but pervasive example of perfect hashing is implicit in the (virtual) memory address space of a computer. Since each byte of virtual memory is a distinct, unique, directly addressable storage location, the value of the starting address where any object is stored in memory can be considered a de facto perfect hash of that object into the entire memory address range.

Dynamic perfect hashing
Using a perfect hash function is best in situations where there is a frequently queried large set, $S$, which is seldom updated. This is because any modification of the set $S$ may cause the hash function to no longer be perfect for the modified set. Solutions which update the hash function any time the set is modified are known as dynamic perfect hashing, but these methods are relatively complicated to implement.

Minimal perfect hash function
A minimal perfect hash function is a perfect hash function that maps $n$ keys to $n$ consecutive integers – usually the numbers from $log(n)$ to $0$ or from $n − 1$ to $n$. A more formal way of expressing this is: Let $j$ and $k$ be elements of some finite set $S$. Then $h$ is a minimal perfect hash function if and only if $1$ implies $h(j) = h(k)$ (injectivity) and there exists an integer $a$ such that the range of $h$ is $j = k$. It has been proven that a general purpose minimal perfect hash scheme requires at least $$\log_2 e \approx 1.44$$ bits/key. Assuming that $$S$$ is a set of size $$n$$ containing integers in the range $$[1, 2^{o(n)}]$$, it is known how to efficiently construct an explicit minimal perfect hash function from $$S$$ to $$\{1, 2, \ldots, n\}$$ that uses space $$n \log_2 e + o(n)$$bits and that supports constant evaluation time. In practice, there are minimal perfect hashing schemes that use roughly 1.56 bits/key if given enough time.

k-perfect hashing
A hash function is $k$-perfect if at most $k$ elements from $S$ are mapped onto the same value in the range. The "hash, displace, and compress" algorithm can be used to construct $k$-perfect hash functions by allowing up to $k$ collisions. The changes necessary to accomplish this are minimal, and are underlined in the adapted pseudocode below: (4) for all i ∈[r], in the order from (2), do (5)    for l ← 1,2,... (6)        repeat forming Ki ← {$a..a + |S| − 1$l(x)|x ∈ Bi} (6)        until |Ki|=|Bi| and Ki∩{j| T[j]=k }= ∅ (7)    let σ(i):= the successful l (8)     for all j ∈ Ki set T[j]←T[j]+1

Order preservation
A minimal perfect hash function $F$ is order preserving if keys are given in some order $Φ$ and for any keys $a_{1}, a_{2}, ..., a_{n}$ and $a_{j}$, $a_{k}$ implies $j < k$. In this case, the function value is just the position of each key in the sorted ordering of all of the keys. A simple implementation of order-preserving minimal perfect hash functions with constant access time is to use an (ordinary) perfect hash function to store a lookup table of the positions of each key. This solution uses $$O(n \log n)$$ bits, which is optimal in the setting where the comparison function for the keys may be arbitrary. However, if the keys $F(a_{j}) < F(a_{k})$ are integers drawn from a universe $$\{1, 2, \ldots, U\}$$, then it is possible to construct an order-preserving hash function using only $$O(n \log \log \log U)$$ bits of space. Moreover, this bound is known to be optimal.

Related constructions
While well-dimensioned hash tables have amortized average O(1) time (amortized average constant time) for lookups, insertions, and deletion, most hash table algorithms suffer from possible worst-case times that take much longer. A worst-case O(1) time (constant time even in the worst case) would be better for many applications (including network router and memory caches).

Few hash table algorithms support worst-case O(1) lookup time (constant lookup time even in the worst case). The few that do include: perfect hashing; dynamic perfect hashing; cuckoo hashing; hopscotch hashing; and extendible hashing.

A simple alternative to perfect hashing, which also allows dynamic updates, is cuckoo hashing. This scheme maps keys to two or more locations within a range (unlike perfect hashing which maps each key to a single location) but does so in such a way that the keys can be assigned one-to-one to locations to which they have been mapped. Lookups with this scheme are slower, because multiple locations must be checked, but nevertheless take constant worst-case time.

title: Perfect hash function


text:
User talk:Gracewns

Hello, Gracewns. Welcome to Wikipedia.

A few tips for you to start going. (I'll send more if I see that I can help you :-)

 * Just edit stuff off the cuff for a while. We like that fine!
 * When you have time, check out Welcome, newcomers + the links in there.
 * You can sign your stuff on talk pages with ~ It will convert to your username + the time. "anon" is fine too.
 * If puzzled, put a question on Village pump, or feel free to ask me on my talk page if it's a very general question.
 * Most of all, have fun but take our work seriously!

-- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 15:53 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

title: User talk:Gracewns


text:
User talk:H0113309

Hello. Welcome to Wikipedia.

A few tips for you to start going. (I'll send more if I see that I can help you :-)

 * Just edit stuff off the cuff for a while. We like that fine!
 * When you have time, check out Welcome, newcomers + the links in there.
 * You can sign your stuff on talk pages with ~ It will convert to your username + the time. "anon" is fine too.
 * If puzzled, put a question on Village pump, or feel free to ask me on my talk page if it's a very general question.
 * Most of all, have fun but take our work seriously!

-- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 15:54 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Image:Pot-tea.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Pot-tea.jpg, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. User:Gay Cdn (talk) (Contr) 01:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:H0113309


text:
Clifford A. Pickover

Clifford Alan Pickover (born August 15, 1957) is an American author, editor, and columnist in the fields of science, mathematics, science fiction, innovation, and creativity. For many years, he was employed at the IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown, New York, where he was editor-in-chief of the IBM Journal of Research and Development. He has been granted more than 700 U.S. patents, is an elected Fellow for the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, and is author of more than 50 books, translated into more than a dozen languages.

Life, education and career

Pickover graduated first in his class from Franklin and Marshall College, after completing the four-year undergraduate program in three years. He received his PhD in 1982 from Yale University's Department of Molecular Biophysics and Biochemistry, where he conducted research on X-ray scattering and protein structure.

Pickover was elected as a Fellow for the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry for his "significant contributions to the general public's understanding of science, reason, and critical inquiry through their scholarship, writing, and work in the media." Other Fellows have included Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov. He has been awarded almost 700 United States patents, and his The Math Book was winner of the 2011 Neumann Prize.

He joined IBM at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center in 1982, as a member of the speech synthesis group and later worked on the design-automation workstations. For much of his career, Pickover has published technical articles in the areas of scientific visualization, computer art, and recreational mathematics.

He is currently an associate editor for the scientific journal Computers and Graphics and is an editorial board member for Odyssey and Leonardo. He is also the Brain-Strain columnist for Odyssey magazine, and, for many years, he was the Brain-Boggler columnist for Discover magazine.

Pickover has received more than 100 IBM invention achievement awards, three research division awards, and four external honor awards.

Work

Pickover's primary interest is in finding new ways to expand creativity by melding art, science, mathematics, and other seemingly disparate areas of human endeavor. In The Math Book and his companion book The Physics Book, Pickover explains that both mathematics and physics "cultivate a perpetual state of wonder about the limits of thoughts, the workings of the universe, and our place in the vast space-time landscape that we call home." Pickover is an inventor with over 700 patents, the author of puzzle calendars, and puzzle contributor to magazines geared to children and adults. His Neoreality and Heaven Virus science-fiction series explores the fabric of reality and religion.

Pickover is author of hundreds of technical papers in diverse fields, ranging from the creative visualizations of fossil seashells, genetic sequences, cardiac and speech sounds, and virtual caverns and lava lamps, to fractal and mathematically based studies. He also has published articles in the areas of skepticism (e.g. ESP and Nostradamus), psychology (e.g. temporal lobe epilepsy and genius), and technical speculation (e.g. "What if scientists had found a computer in 1900?" and "An informal survey on the scientific and social impact of a soda can-sized super-super computer"). Additional visualization work includes topics that involve breathing motions of proteins, snow-flake like patterns for speech sounds, cartoon-face representations of data, and biomorphs.

Pickover has also written extensively on the reported experiences of people on the psychotropic compound DMT. Such apparent entities as Machine Elves are described as well as "Insects From A Parallel Universe".

On November 4, 2006, he began Wikidumper.org, a popular blog featuring articles being considered for deletion by English Wikipedia.

Pickover stalks
Pickover stalks are certain kinds of details that are empirically found in the Mandelbrot set in the study of fractal geometry. In the 1980s, Pickover proposed that experimental mathematicians and computer artists examine the behavior of orbit trajectories for the Mandelbrot set in order to study how closely the orbits of interior points come to the x and y axes in the complex plane. In some renditions of this behavior, the closer that the point approaches, the higher up the color scale, with red denoting the closest approach. The logarithm of the distance is taken to accentuate the details. This work grew from his earlier work with Julia sets and "Pickover biomorphs," the latter of which often resembled microbes.

Frontiers of Scientific Visualization
In "Frontiers of Scientific Visualization" (1994) Pickover explored "the art and science of making the unseen workings of nature visible". The books contains contributions on "Fluid flow, fractals, plant growth, genetic sequencing, the configuration of distant galaxies, virtual reality to artistic inspiration", and focuses on use of computers as tools for simulation, art and discovery.

Visualizing Biological Information
In "Visualizing Biological Information" (1995) Pickover considered "biological data of all kinds, which is proliferating at an incredible rate". According to Pickover, "if humans attempt to read such data in the form of numbers and letters, they will take in the information at a snail's pace. If the information is rendered graphically, however, human analysts can assimilate it and gain insight much faster. The emphasis of this work is on the novel graphical and musical representation of information containing sequences, such as DNA and amino acid sequences, to help us find hidden pattern and meaning".

Vampire numbers and other mathematical highlights
In mathematics, a vampire number or true vampire number is a composite natural number v, with an even number of digits n, that can be factored into two integers x and y each with n/2 digits and not both with trailing zeroes, where v contains all the digits from x and from y, in any order. x and y are called the fangs. As an example, 1260 is a vampire number because it can be expressed as 21 × 60 = 1260. Note that the digits of the factors 21 and 60 can be found, in some scrambled order, in 1260. Similarly, 136,948 is a vampire because 136,948 = 146 × 938.

Vampire numbers first appeared in a 1994 post by Clifford A. Pickover to the Usenet group sci.math, and the article he later wrote was published in chapter 30 of his book Keys to Infinity.

In addition to "Vampire numbers", a term Pickover actually coined, he has coined the following terms in the area of mathematics: Leviathan number, factorion, Carotid–Kundalini function and fractal, batrachion, Juggler sequence, and Legion's number, among others. For characterizing noisy data, he has used Truchet tiles and Noise spheres, the later of which is a term he coined for a particular mapping, and visualization, of noisy data to spherical coordinates.

In 1990, he asked "Is There a Double Smoothly Undulating Integer?", and he computed "All Known Replicating Fibonacci Digits Less than One Billion". With his colleague John R. Hendricks, he was the first to compute the smallest perfect (nasik) magic tesseract. The "Pickover sequence" dealing with e and pi was named after him, as was the "Cliff random number generator" and the Pickover attractor, sometimes also referred to as the Clifford Attractor.

Culture, religion, belief
Starting in about 2001, Pickover's books sometimes began to include topics beyond his traditional focus on science and mathematics. For example, Dreaming the Future discusses various methods of divination that humans have used since stone-age times. The Paradox of God deals with topics in religion. Perhaps the most obvious departure from his earlier works includes Sex, Drugs, Einstein, and Elves: Sushi, Psychedelics, Parallel Universes, and the Quest for Transcendence, which explores the "borderlands of science" and is "part memoir and part surrealist perspective on culture.". Pickover follows-up his "quest for transcendence" and examination of popular culture with A Beginner's Guide to Immortality: Extraordinary People, Alien Brains, and Quantum Resurrection.

History of science and mathematics
Starting in 2008, Pickover's books began to focus on the history of science and mathematics, with such titles as Archimedes to Hawking, as well as The Math Book, The Physics Book, and The Medical Book—a trilogy of more than 1,500 pages that presents various historical milestones, breakthroughs, and curiosities.

WikiDumper.org
Wikidumper.org is a website created by Pickover that promises to permanently record a snapshot of the "best of the English Wikipedia rejects", articles that are slated for deletion at the English Wikipedia. WikiDumper was launched on November 4, 2006, and accepts user submissions. Although the site doesn't specify its criteria for inclusion, many of its articles don't cite their sources. The site has been criticized as likely to be less accurate than English Wikipedia.

Publications

Pickover is author of over forty books on such topics as computers and creativity, art, mathematics, black holes, human behavior and intelligence, time travel, alien life, Albert Einstein, religion, dimethyltryptamine elves, parallel universes, the nature of genius, and science fiction.

Books

 * 1990. Computers, Pattern, Chaos, and Beauty. St. Martin's Press. ISBN 0-486-41709-3
 * 1991. Computers and the Imagination. St. Martin's Press.
 * 1992. Mazes for the Mind. St. Martin's Press.
 * 1994. Chaos in Wonderland. St. Martin's Press.
 * 1995. Keys to Infinity. Wiley.
 * 1996. Black Holes: A Traveler's Guide. Wiley.
 * 1997. The Alien IQ Test. Basic Books.
 * 1997. The Loom of God. Plenum.
 * 1998. Spider Legs. With Piers Anthony TOR.
 * 1998. The Science of Aliens. Basic Books.
 * 1998. Time: A Traveler's Guide. Oxford University Press.
 * 1999. Strange Brains and Genius: The Secret Lives of Eccentric Scientists and Madmen, Harper Perennial/Quill, ISBN 0-688-16894-9
 * 1999. Surfing Through Hyperspace. Oxford University Press.
 * 2000. Cryptorunes: Codes and Secret Writing. Pomegranate.
 * 2000. The Girl Who Gave Birth to Rabbits. Prometheus.
 * 2000. Wonders of Numbers. Oxford University Press.
 * 2001. Dreaming the Future. Prometheus.
 * 2001. The Stars of Heaven. Oxford University Press.
 * 2002. The Zen of Magic Squares, Circles, and Stars. Princeton University Press. ISBN 0-691-11597-4
 * 2002. The Mathematics of Oz. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-01678-9
 * 2002. The Paradox of God and the Science of Omniscience. St. Martin's Press. ISBN 1-4039-6457-2
 * 2003. Calculus and Pizza. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 0-471-26987-5
 * 2005. Sex, Drugs, Einstein, and Elves. Smart Publications. ISBN 1-890572-17-9
 * 2005. A Passion for Mathematics, John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 0-471-69098-8
 * 2006. The Mobius Strip, Thunder's Mouth Press. ISBN 1-56025-826-8
 * 2007. A Beginner's Guide to Immortality. Thunder's Mouth Press. ISBN 978-1-56025-984-8
 * 2007. The Heaven Virus. Lulu. ISBN 978-1-4303-2969-5
 * 2008. Archimedes to Hawking: Laws of Science and the Great Minds Behind Them. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-533611-5
 * 2009. Jews in Hyperspace. Kindle Edition.
 * 2009. The Loom of God. Sterling Publishing.  ISBN 978-1-4027-6400-4
 * 2009. The Math Book: From Pythagoras to the 57th Dimension, 250 Milestones in the History of Mathematics. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4027-5796-9
 * 2011. The Physics Book: From the Big Bang to Quantum Resurrection. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4027-7861-2
 * 2012. The Medical Book: From Witch Doctors to Robot Surgeons. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4027-8585-6
 * 2012. Brain Strain: A Mental Muscle Workout That's Fun!. Cricket Media.
 * 2013. The Book of Black: Black Holes, Black Death, Black Forest Cake and Other Dark Sides of Life, Calla Editions. ISBN 978-1606600498
 * 2014. The Mathematics Devotional: Celebrating the Wisdom and Beauty of Mathematics. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1454913221.
 * 2015. The Physics Devotional: Celebrating the Wisdom and Beauty of Physics. Sterling Publishing . ISBN 978-1454915546
 * 2015. Death and the Afterlife: A Chronological Journey, from Cremation to Quantum Resurrection. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1454914341
 * 2018. The Science Book: From Darwin to Dark Energy. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1454930068
 * 2019. Artificial Intelligence: An Illustrated History, From Medieval Robots to Neural Networks. Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1454933595
 * Mind-Bending Puzzles (calendars & cards), Pomegranate, each year

Neoreality science fiction series

 * 2002. Liquid Earth. The Lighthouse Press, Inc.
 * 2002. The Lobotomy Club. The Lighthouse Press, Inc.
 * 2002. Sushi Never Sleeps. The Lighthouse Press, Inc.
 * 2002. Egg Drop Soup. The Lighthouse Press, Inc. ISBN 0-9714827-9-9

Edited collections

 * 1992. Spiral Symmetry, World Scientific. ISBN 981-02-0615-1
 * 1993. Visions of the Future: St. Martin's Press.
 * 1994. Frontiers of Scientific Visualization. Wiley.
 * 1995. Future Health: Computers & Medicine in the 21st Century. St. Martin's Press.
 * 1995. 'The Pattern Book: Fractals, Art, and Nature''. World Scientific.
 * 1995. Visualizing Biological Information. World Scientific.
 * 1996. Fractal Horizons. St. Martin's Press,
 * 1998. Chaos and Fractals. Elsevier.

title: Clifford A. Pickover


text:
User talk:Dr Souichi Tomoe

poof! *  *                        \|/                     * - o - * /|\                      *   *                      /                     /                    /                   /                  /                  /                /                /              /

title: User talk:Dr Souichi Tomoe


text:
Bar (law)

In law, the bar is the legal profession as an institution. The term is a metonym for the line (or "bar") that separates the parts of a courtroom reserved for spectators and those reserved for participants in a trial such as lawyers.

In the United Kingdom, the term "the bar" refers only to the professional organization for barristers (referred to in Scotland as advocates); the other type of UK lawyer, solicitors, have their own body, the Law Society. Correspondingly, being "called to the bar" refers to admission to the profession of barristers, not solicitors.

Courtroom division

The origin of the term bar is from the barring furniture dividing a medieval European courtroom. In the U.S., Europe and many other countries referring to the law traditions of Europe, the area in front of the barrage is restricted to participants in the trial: the judge or judges, other court officials, the jury (if any), the lawyers for each party, the parties to the case, and witnesses giving testimony. The area behind the bar is open to the public. This restriction is enforced in nearly all courts. In most courts, the bar is represented by a physical partition: a railing or barrier that serves as a bar.

License and certification
The bar may also refer to the qualifying procedure by which a lawyer is licensed to practice law in a given jurisdiction.

U.S. procedure
In the United States, this procedure is administered by the individual U.S. states and their respective bar associations. In general, a candidate must graduate from a qualified law school and pass a written test: the bar examination. Almost all states use the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE), a multiple-choice exam administered on one day of a two- or three-day test. An increasing number use the Uniform Bar Examination, which includes the MBE. In either case, on days during which the MBE is not administered, the bar exam may include questions related to that state's laws. If the candidate reaches the score required by a particular state, the candidate is then admitted to the bar. A lawyer whose license to practice law is revoked is said to be disbarred.

State bar associations may set additional requirements to bar admission such as trial and court observations, character and background screenings, or an additional examination on professional ethics.

U.S. patent procedure
Admission to practice before the patent section of the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) requires that the individual pass a separate, single-day examination administered by that agency. This test is typically referred to as the "patent bar", although the word "bar" does not appear in the test's official name.

Unlike the general bar examination, for which graduation from a recognized law school is a prerequisite, the USPTO exam does not require that the candidate have taken any law school courses. Instead, the main prerequisite is a science or engineering background, most often met with a bachelor's degree in a relevant field. Individuals who pass the examination are referred to as "patent attorneys" if they have an active law license from any U.S. jurisdiction, and "patent agents" otherwise. Attorneys and agents have the same license to represent clients before the patent section of the USPTO, and both may issue patentability opinions. However, any other patent-related practice (such as licensing or infringement litigation) can only be performed by licensed attorneys—who do not necessarily have to be USPTO-licensed.

British procedure
In the United Kingdom, the practice of law is divided between barristers (advocates in Scotland) and solicitors; advocacy before a court is almost always carried out by barristers (or advocates). A person who becomes an advocate or barrister is referred to as being called to the bar. In the UK, there is a distinction between the inner bar (for senior King's counsel) and the outer bar (for Junior barristers).

The legal profession
The bar commonly refers to the legal profession as a whole. With a modifier, it may refer to a branch or division of the profession: as, for instance, the tort bar—lawyers who specialize in filing civil suits for damages.

In conjunction with bench, bar may differentiate lawyers who represent clients (the bar) from judges or members of a judiciary (the bench). In this sense, the bar advocates and the bench adjudicates. Yet, in some countries, judges who previously worked as lawyers representing clients commonly remain members of the bar and lawyers are commonly referenced as Officers of the Court.

The phrase bench and bar denotes all judges and lawyers collectively.

title: Bar (law)


text:
Talk:Ignatius of Antioch

Proper use of AD
"'In his Chronicle, Eusebius gives the date of his death as AA 2124, the 11th year of Trajan, i.e. 108 AD.'" What are the conventions here re: C.E./B.C.E. vs. A.D./B.C.? If we are using A.D. rather than C.E., then the letters ought to precede the year rather than follow it. So: "'...AA 2124, the 11th year of Trajan, i.e. A.D. 108'", or else "'...AA 2124, the 11th year of Trajan, i.e. 108 C.E.'". 131.183.93.184 (talk) 18:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Dear God man! The criticism you give about this article on Ignatius is that the author didnt put the A.D. before the year,but after the year?! OH MY! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.129.246.4 (talk) 21:54, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 131... has a valid point: Failing to realize the meaning of AD and hence putting it after the date degrades culture. If Wikipedia aspires to be a professional encyclopedia, it is important to always put 'AD' before the date, and to never use BCE/CE until its dating is corrected to actually refer to a point whereby we shared a 'common era' (e.g. WW1 or the WWW). Because BCE/CE is dishonest and incorrect, I propose we continue using BC/AD. -- Newagelink (talk) 09:35, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Note: I'm not comfortable about my identification of Philadelphia in this article with Amman; I seem to remember that there was a Philadelphia in Anatolia (which is mentioned in Book of Revelations), but so far there is no Wiki article about it, nor is it mentioned in the Philadelphia (disambiguation) page. (I'm adding this information from memory, without any of my references at hand.) -- llywrch 16:40 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

What's the deal with the fact that he wrote in run-on sentences? Mydotnet

 * I was wondering this too. Many ancient languages did not use literary/organizational things like sentences. Ashleyisachild

 * Ancient Greek did indeed have sentences. They just aren't organized the way modern English ones are.  Translations (which will always be approximate at best) simply reflect this reality.  --Preost 02:16, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with ASDamick. Ancient Greek is in all capital letters, no spaces and no periods or accent marks. But the grammar was more advanced than modern English: there are words and nouns and verbs ... and sentences.

 * Ignatius did not write in Ancient Greek. He wrote in Koine, which had different cases of letter, and punctuation.  If anything, a translation from Ancient Greek would likely have a more recognizable form, since the division between sentences would be made according to the translator's best judgment.  A translator depending upon Ignatius's division of sentences, however, would produce a translation with sentences following Greek conventions rather than modern English ones.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.50.124 (talk) 03:39, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I have translated Theophorus "vessel of God." would 'instrument of god" be more accurate in this context? I have added a good deal more and a Catholic Encyclopedia link. Better vet my additions. --Wetman 19:33, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * changed "Adam" to "Abraham" to reflect Jerome's chronicle.Second Dark (talk) 04:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Theophoros
Theophoros literally means "God-bearer." It comes from the word meaning "to carry." In Greek usage, something that is _____phoros is something that carries _____. For instance, a rassophore monk is a monk who wears a rasso (a kind of garment). In Orthodox Christian theology (the Church which still seems to pay the most attention to Ignatius), at least, there is a strong sense that Christians are all called to be bearers of God, i.e., theophoroi, bearing God inside of themselves.
 * Yes, I was looking for a sensible rendering of -phoros. So "vessel of God" is acceptable after all.--Wetman 19:51, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer "bearer of God," but "vessel of God" works, as well. Preost

Category:Catholic martyrs
I've now twice removed the anonymous addition of the Catholic martyrs category. The reason is that it's somewhat anachronistic to claim a 2nd century bishop of Antioch as a "Catholic martyr." Such a distinction as "Catholic" hadn't really taken by that point, and the almost necessary association that would be made by inclusion in such a category would be to the modern day Roman Catholic Church (especially since the category is a sub-category of Category:Roman Catholics), which Ignatius certainly would not have had a sense of himself belonging to, certainly not as something which is so clearly out of communion with the church he was bishop of.

If any such distinction is to be made, he would be an "Orthodox martyr" rather than "Catholic," especially since he tends to be much more highly regarded by Orthodox Christians than by Roman Catholic ones. A whole patriarchate of the Orthodox Church regards him as their patron. But of course when St. Ignatius was martyred, the two churches were still one. To claim him for either "side" is implicitly to deny that.

In any event, "Christian martyrs" is good enough, it seems to me. To claim Ignatius as a "Catholic," especially as some subset of "Roman Catholic," is to do injustice to the historical reality. — Preost talk contribs 20:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

That doesn't say much though. The Orthodox most certainly consider themselves Catholic, in the literal sense of the word. Just calling Roman Catholics, "Catholics", is a relatively new thing, and calling Orthodox, "Orthodox", is a new thing. Roman Catholics most certainly consider themselves orthodox, in the literal sense, and Orthodox consider themselves catholic, in the literal sense. It is more accurate to call Orthodox "The Eastern Catholic Church" (except that title already is taken by Eastern Rite Catholics), and the Catholics, "The Western Catholic Church," because arguably, the Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire (before it fell of course, and even after the schism) could legitimately call themselves Roman Catholics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.188.55 (talk) 01:44, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 * But he is *honored* by the Catholic Church, whether he should be specifically seen as Roman Catholic or not... so maybe he fits into both Catholic, Orthodox, and Christian martyr? 75.68.77.207 17:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I think it should be put back. Ignatius of Antioch is on the Roman Catholic calendar as a martyr and saint.  They do a Eucharist on his feast day, and the priest comes out wearing red.  Are we going to remove everyone who lived before 1054?  I think they should be included on both, along with a number of others. Carlo (talk) 18:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

 * No, Ignatius of Antioch is considered a saint of the whole Christian church -- the so-called 'small-c catholic' -- in fact, there are almost no disputes involving his rank among any of the churches, ancient or current. (That is the only 'catholic' that existed in his time.) 'Capital-C Catholic', ie., the Roman church, is properly applied only to those who came during or after the Catholic/Orthodox split, many hundreds of years after Ignatius. Rlongman1 15 March 2011

--- I just removed a rather long passage that appeared to be an apologia written by a Seventh-Day Adventist - a long, convoluted attempt to "prove" that Ignatius was not actually advocating Sunday worship, when he obviously was. Carlo 02:40, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I just removed a slab of quotations that did nothing more than to confirm that, yes, Ignatius did use the word "bishop". -- llywrch 04:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Disciple of apostles?
To give some insight ,according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Ignatius of Antioch, along with his friend Polycarp, were with great probability auditors of the Apostle St. John.

What is the basis for the following: "Ignatius, who also called himself Theophorus ("bearer of God"), was most likely a disciple of both Apostles Peter and John."? It sounds like christian guesswork and/or wishfull thinking 62.79.77.252 20:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Not sure why you think it's hard to believe: Peter and John were real people, and Ignatius was a first-century bishop of possibly the most important city in the early Christian Church, Antioch.

 * The idea that he was the disciple of John comes from the Martyrdom of Ignatius, which purports to have been written by those who accompanied him on his journey to Rome. He is also close to Polycarp, whom Irenaeus - disciple of Polycarp - says was a disciple of John.

 * The idea that he was a disciple of Peter I had not heard. I guess it comes from his being a bishop of a city that Peter was previously (one brief one removed) bishop of.  It doesn't seem unlikely, but I don't see much solid to back it up, so I changed that part. I'll clean it up as soon as I figure out how to properly footnote. Carlo 00:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The ideas you mentioned came from Christians in the 4th & 5th century, some declared, one anonymous. Here is an extract from my website, http://www.geocities.com/b_d_muller/ignatius.html which I am trying to have posted as a link:
 * "The seven letters are considered quasi-canonical by the Catholic Church (& some other ones) and the historical justification for many of its doctrines. One of the reasons would be Ignatius' alleged acquaintance with Jesus' disciples, as first "revealed" centuries later by bishops John Chrysostom (347-407) & Theodoret (393-457).
 * From the "Catholic Encyclopedia, St. Ignatius of Antioch":
 * "St. John Chrysostom lays special emphasis on the honor conferred upon the martyr in receiving his episcopal consecration at the hands of the Apostles themselves ("Hom. in St. Ig.", IV. 587).
 * Natalis Alexander quotes Theodoret to the same effect (III, xii, art. xvi, p. 53)."
 * "Theodoret ("Dial. Immutab.", I, iv, 33a, Paris, 1642) is the authority for the statement that St. Peter appointed Ignatius to the See of Antioch"
 * And from the 'Martyrium Ignatii', ch.1:
 * "Ignatius, the disciple of John the apostle, a man in all respects of an apostolic character""
 * This Wikipedia page is unfortunatly one-sided.Bernard

Saying Ignatius WAS a student or disciple of x, seems quite misleading to me. I've changed it so it is less certain since that's the truth of it... --ShadowFusion (talk) 13:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Why "auditors" - what is meant by this? Can we use a clearer term or be more explanatory about their probable dealings with/relationship to the apostle ? Orlando098 (talk) 04:28, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * The 'tradition' re Ignatius' connection to the apostle John must have its ancient sources referenced in the notes, if not the text. But its attestation is rather strong, compared to most ancient reports on people, churchly or otherwise. Not only is it referred to in others' works, Ignatius' own works constantly draw on John and John's way of thinking as evidenced by John's Gospel. Ignatius and Polycarp may have, indeed, been part of the "Johannine community" spoken of by Raymond Brown. It is one of the most secure things that can be said about him, aside from his connection to Polycarp (which is itself a connection to John) and his being Bishop of Antioch for a time (how long is not secure).  The connection to Peter is far weaker, and is doubted by most of the historians I've read. (Rlongman1)

Proposed link
I have been instructed to post my website: http://www.geocities.com/b_d_muller/ignatius.html for review. Please, if any reader think it is worth to be posted, do so. Bernard Muller

Page needs work I think.
"He died as a martyr in the arena." Despite exhaustive searching, admittedly with limited resources, I am unable to find any evidence that he died at Rome.

NBeddoe 22:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

In answer to your question Eusebius the historian, referenced in the article, apparently wrote that he had evidence Ignatius "became food for wild animals" in Rome. It is believed from Eusebius that this occurred during the reign of Trajan.

The rest of the events in Rome seem to be from a document of questionable authenticity called "The Martyrdom of Ignatius", discussed in the article under "Martyrium Ignatii" - the Latin title. A translation of that document can be found online here from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0123.htm Chrisbak 03:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I think this article is taking a position which is too supportive of biased historians. Outside of Eusebius we have no reason to tie the Ignatius of the letters to being a Bishop. I think we need at least a paragraph or two addressing the issue what we actually know very little about him other than that he wrote 7 letters unless we consider 4th century sources reliable. jbolden1517Talk 15:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

 * That's not accurate. In the Epistle to the Romans, Chapter II, he refers to himself as the Bishop of Syria. Carlo (talk) 00:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

 * The seven Ignatian letters are not necessarily by one author - critical analysis by Bernard Muller. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 16:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

 * And who is Bernard Muller? Carlo (talk) 23:55, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Bernard who?-LOL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.129.246.4 (talk) 22:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Lord's Day
In regards to the quote in the article following the line "St. Ignatius is claimed to be the first known Christian writer to argue in favor of Christianity's replacement of the Sabbath with the Lord's Day:" I believe I should mention that some scholars have considered that rather than "Lord's Day" another possible translation would be "Lord's life", which is important as that changes a key part of the passage. I'm uncertain as to how to work this into the article, however. Lord Seth (talk) 23:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

 * The interpretation of this quote is, I'm sure, the subject of academic debate. But it looks like the point here in the article is that he is _claimed_ to argue for the replacement of the Sabbath with the Lord's Day. IMO discussion of alternative translations here is inappropriate. 131.183.93.184 (talk) 18:51, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It the context of the passage, especially since he mentions that the Lord's way is in contrast to those who Judaize and observe sabbaths, it looks as though he is advocating Sunday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.177.26 (talk) 03:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I found another quote from Ignatius in his letter to the Magnesians that clearly states that the Lord's day is the 8th day:

"And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, 'To the end, for the eighth day,'" Epistle to the Magnesians Chapter IX. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.171.60 (talk) 03:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Authenticity?
I don't see the doubts about the authenticity of the Ignatius letters as a whole mentioned in the article. There appears to be an old tradition within criticism that doubts whether any of the letters were really written by Ignatius. Here is an paper stemming back from the late 1800s that considers these spurious, for instance:

http://depts.drew.edu/jhc/KillenIgnatius.pdf

Perhaps there has been more modern evidence for the authenticity of these letters, but in that case it would be interesting to include a discussion in the article. I know very little about this topic, so perhaps someone who knows more about this topic could give their impression? Martijn Faassen (talk) 22:35, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

 * This is an interesting discussion about this topic. http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/07/are-letters-of-ignatius-and-polycarp.html Martijn Faassen (talk) 22:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

 * That there is scholarly debate about the authenticity of all the Ignatius letters is a fact and it seems clear that the article should mention that. I was trying to find information about the issues in the debate and when if I just read the Wikipedia article I wouldn't even know there is a debate.--Davefoc (talk) 19:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

 * There have only been about a half dozen people that mounted serious arguments against the authenticity of the letters. The consensus is without a doubt that the middle recension is authentic. If you are curious about the arguments against authenticity, the most important of the recent doubters are Hubner, Lechner, and Joly. If you can read German and French, then you can go read up on the arguments. If not, Allen Brent summarizes the major positions in a chapter of his book "Ignatius of Antioch: Martyr, Bishop, Something." All that to say, feel free to mention that there are a few doubters, but it is not like there is a huge contingent of scholars arguing for the inauthenticity of the letters. Whole Wheat Ιγνάτιος (talk) 04:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Although the authenticity debate died down somewhat in the 20th century there was much controversy in the 18th and 19th century - certainly more than "half a dozen people" disputed the Ignatian Epistles. For Victorian-era discussions in English see:
 * Article Ignatius in the Encyclopedia Biblica
 * W.R. Cassels' Supernatural Religion and A Reply To Dr Lightfoot's Essays
 * W.D. Killen's The Ancient Church and The Ignatian Epistles Entirely Spurious.
 * R.C. Jenkins' Ignatian Difficulties and Historical Doubts
 * Also of interest: Herman Detering's 1 Clement and the Ignatiana in Dutch Radical Criticism
 * Muzilon (talk) 18:18, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

 * I was mainly referring to the more recent book length efforts of the last century or so. I certainly did not say nor was I attempting to communicate that only half a dozen people in their entire history thought them false. The quality and detail of say Joly's arguments are vastly superior to some of the essay length treatments of the generation that preceded him. Whole Wheat Ιγνάτιος (talk) 13:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I've amended the article to say that seven of the epistles are "generally regarded as authentic" rather than the flat statement that they "are authentic". Muzilon (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

"generally regarded as authentic" Christ, those religious people that feel entitled withouth reading academic text, to declare such statment really shows they are not scholar and must for themself declare its true. "generally regarded as authentic by christians who only speak english" is more correct.

what church can claim him
People have said it is wrong for catholics to say he was catholic. I believe that any church today that was part of the church then should be able to claim him as back then there was only one church and it has branched. So the Catholics and the orthodox, in other words any denomination that is from the original church should be able to claim him.Peppermintschnapps (talk) 02:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Roman Catholics, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and probably Lutherans and Anglicans would all claim Ignatius (I'm sure I'm leaving out others). Most Protestants (low church) would probably reject Ignatius' views on the Eucharist and perhaps a few other teachings that come from the few preserved writings of Ignatius. I'm not sure if on Wikipedia we could classify Ignatius under a denomination since that would violate POV rules, although there is probably some truth to your statement. Perhaps instead we could list what churches claim him, or believe him to be a saint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.174.185 (talk) 02:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As one skeptical writer drily noted, the Ignatian Epistles "abound with exhortations to obey the bishops. No wonder then that they are defended by episcopalians and disputed by presbyterians." Muzilon (talk) 04:36, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Mar. 15 2011 : The page has apparently been haphazardly altered, taking out much important information and even showing some text code. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rlongman (talk • contribs) 20:33, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

February 11, 2012 (Feast Day of Saint Ignatius) The article mentions Saint Ignatius being martyred in the Coloseum, however some sources indicate it was in the Circus Maximus. This should be checked with an authoritative hagiography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.214.198 (talk) 13:50, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

 * If you want to be accurate, everyone who trusts the real Lord Jesus as Savior is part of the catholic church, the Body of Christ. And this Body of Christ is no denomination, though persons in denominations may be in the Body of Christ (if they are not just playing at church).  It is wrong to say there WAS 1 Church & it has branched into multiple Churches. Such a claim confuses denominations with Church. The NT never uses ekklesia for any denomination.  Now you may speak of what the papal organization claims -- but his denomination is not "The Church."  As to "saint," biblically all Christians are saints (else people are ain'ts).  There is no special group of super holy men in the NT called "saints."  As to Iggy, IMHO, he was a paranoid megalomaniac, a Diotrephes (3 John).  The title of this section assumes an error when it says, "what church can claims him" -- there is only 1 church & never will be another, so far as revealed in the Word.  (EnochBethany (talk) 06:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC))

The fate of Ignatius
This article on Ignatius is particularly weak, for it does not explain what Ignatius was charged with,even if he was indeed charged,nor what crime he was accused of. Wikipedia standards please! In short, why was he (Ignatius) sent to the colosseum in the first place? Perhaps our Spanish speaking friends could furnish an answer...

– — ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · § — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pontificateus (talk • contribs) 03:56, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

 * The Letters of Ignatius do not provide this information. It is, in fact, a source of great debate in the scholarly community. Whole Wheat Ιγνάτιος (talk) 19:03, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

 * This should be stated explicitly in the article I think. An obvious question is what was the alleged reason for his execution and if that is unknown the article should state that.--Davefoc (talk) 19:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Syriac
Ignatius seems to have been a native speaker of Syriac. Is there any direct information about this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.217.231 (talk) 14:42, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

 * According to what source? If you are basing your opinion on the Curetonian Syriac (aka the short recension), the scholarly opinion is virtually unanimous that the Syriac is an epitome. Whole Wheat Ιγνάτιος (talk) 02:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

The source for the martyrdom story states that it is a legend, so I have altered the article accordingly
The source given for the martyrdom story is, which states "There is a legend that the emperor Trajan himself, who wintered in Antioch in the year 115, examined the aged Bishop Ignatius in the year 115...According to the legend, Trajan ruled that Ignatius should die. He was bound and conveyed to Rome, to be devoured by wild beasts in the Colosseum...According to tradition, (Ignatius) reached Rome on December 20, the last day of the games, and was brought at once before the prefect, to whom the Emperor's letter was delivered. At the prefect's command, the prisoner was hurried off to the Colosseum, where, we are told, two fierce lions were let out and Ignatius was at once killed..." and refers to these "legendary and fictitious elements". Yes, he wrote letters on the way to Rome but there is nothing beyond legend, tradition and fiction to say that Ignatius was killed by wild beasts in the Colosseum. WP should not report legends as historical facts.Smeat75 (talk) 19:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Annihilationism
I could not find anything that directly mentions a denial of immortality of the soul (the term annihilation or a similar term may have very well been used), so I think this tag is inappropriate. 2601:0:4180:7D1:985E:84A7:8ED1:B381 (talk) 16:55, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Weasel words, gullible use of sources, oh my
The section on his life is a travesty of terrible scholarship. It presents Catholic beliefs as true, without reference to any historical or critical scholarship, and without acknowledging these are Catholic beliefs. It vastly over-claims even that evidence. The whole section needs to be carefully reworked, hopefully by someone with some expertise and access to the scholarly literature, to make clear consensus scholarly opinion and degree of certainty for probably every statement. Some specific issues follow: Seriously, the life section is so deficient relative to other readily available sources, even on the internet (see http://silouanthompson.net/library/early-church/ignatius/, which is vastly more reliable), that its not even worth reading past the life section - I can only imagine the evident poor scholarship infuses the whole article. --2602:30A:2EA0:D9F0:F145:1DBC:D2FC:F6BD (talk) 18:00, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Using the word "records" for the claims of Eusebius and Theodorett, as if they were trustworthy sources on the matter. Considering critical scholarship is doubtful of the connection to Peter, the gullibility in unquestioningly accepting the latter is astounding.
 * Acknowledging the tradition of his being held by Jesus without mentioning that scholars doubt the veracity of this, even according to other citations used on the page!
 * "It is believed that St. Ignatius, along with his friend Polycarp, with great probability were disciples of the Apostle St. John." Believed by who? Great probability based on what? Which John?  (Catholic tradition may consider the Gospel character and the writers of the eponymous Gospel, Revelation, and the eponymous epistles as all the same person, but the critical scholarship disagrees vehemently, and even historical church scholars like Eusebius don't think they're all the same.)
 * Why, in the life section, doesn't it contrast Eusebius account with the scholarly range which appears in the lead, or make any comment relating the two whatsoever? (And why doesn't the sidebar represent the scholarly range?)
 * The last paragraph on his life about Christian traditions regarding his remains is in desperate need of citations, but at least it identifies this as not necessarily fact by attributing it specifically to tradition.

Please Fix Obtuse Date
The text says, "Ignátios Antiokheías; ad c. 35 or 50 – 98 to 117[1]), also known . . . ." I regret that those numbers don't express anything clear.  Could someone please clarify them?  Do they mean, "Iggy was born either around AD 35 or precisely on AD 50, and he died somewhere in the range of years 98-117"?  Do they mean, "Iggy was born around AD 35 or in the range of time AD 50-98, with the possibility that he was not born until AD 117"?  (EnochBethany (talk) 06:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC))

Catholic Encyclopedia and Ante-Nicene Fathers
Hello, you seem to have some concerns with my edits. Straight forward, newadvent.org and earlyjewishwriting/earlychristianwritings are considered blogs because they are personal sites of its creators. Please read WP:NOTBLOG. Over the years, the Wikicommunity has decided to remove or replace these links with academic sources. Any content that is typed up as a claim or controversy without a reliable source can be removed. Claims written only in the lead section of the article must also be supported in the body of the article with reliable sources per WP:LEAD. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 05:38, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * To what specifically are you referring in WP:NOTBLOG? 142.161.81.20 (talk) 05:46, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Please read the lead section of NOTBLOG. Personal pages are not permitted. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 05:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? That policy has nothing to do with sourcing. It says that personal pages are not permitted on Wikipedia itself. 142.161.81.20 (talk) 06:13, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * That sounds worse than what I was saying. I have always applied NOTBLOG for removing blogs as sources in articles, and been thanked for it by other editors . Since this needs clarification, read WP:SPS. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 07:04, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have always applied NOTBLOG for removing blogs as sources in articles, and been thanked for it by other editors. I would hope that you and whoever these other editors are would have read it first given that, even if we were discussing a blog, that section of WP:NOT does not pertain to sourcing.
 * Since this needs clarification, read WP:SPS. I am familiar with WP:SPS. It does not, however, necessarily prohibit self-published republications of works originally published by respected presses. If it did, it would prohibit the citing of sources from Wikisource. Would you suggest that to also be prohibited? The reality is, the sources we are working with in this case is an article by Herbert Thurston in the Catholic Encyclopedia (edited by Charles G. Herbermann, Edward A. Pace, Condé B. Pallen, Thomas J. Shahan, and John J. Wynne) and epistles attributed to Ignatius translated by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson and included in Ante-Nicene Fathers (edited by the two translators alongside A. Cleveland Coxe). 142.161.81.20 (talk) 23:50, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Self-published sources are excluded primarily when they are self-promotional. That is not the case here. When self-published sources are created by recognized experts in a specific field, they certainly qualify as reliable sources. If you have concerns about the reliability of these sources, feel free to take them to WP:RSN. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:29, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I fear you might have misread, . I arguing that there ought not be any concerns about the reliability of these sources. 142.161.81.20 (talk) 04:35, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not misreading this. I was not directing my comments toward you. I was simply commenting on how the sources should be approached. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * My apologies, . I suppose I mis-inferred from the chosen indentation. 142.161.81.20 (talk) 06:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I won’t continue on in the discussion, sorry for wasting everyone’s time. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:55, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . 142.161.81.20 (talk) 05:09, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion does not touch the really significant point as I see it: New Advent is makes available an encyclopedia which is over a hundred years old and reflects opinions of its own epoch. The last 50 years have seen enormous changes in Catholic thinking at an academic level. The real problem is not over whether it is a blog or not, but whether Jpacobb (talk) 23:58, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
 * These are Catholic POV blogsites where they add outdated sources. Why don't editiors start using real sources from Google Books such as BRILL publishers or books from universities. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 12:36, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Problem of translation to Rome
It seems to me, the translation to Rome in 637, as the article claims, is difficult to sustain. I checked the Italian version - usually a good source on saints - refers to the "roman martyrology", whatever that might mean in this context. A short google search was, however, illuminating, cf: https://books.google.be/books?id=yvXeCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA24&dq=translation+ignatius+san+clemente&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWm_-egK_tAhW9WxUIHdCKCssQ6AEwAXoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=translation%20ignatius%20san%20clemente&f=false

I think this article needs also in this respect an update. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2C40:100:B001:0:0:1:3A1B (talk) 09:46, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

 * That source says that in 868 Cyril brought the relics of Clement to Rome, and Hadrian II "deposited them with the relics of St Ignatius of Antioch in the high altar of the Basilica of San Clemente". I interpret this as meaning that the relics of Ignatius were already in the altar when Hadrian added the relics of Clement in 868.

 * I added a citation to Joseph Mullooly's history of the Basilica of San Clemente. Mullooly was a priest at San Clemente and starting in 1857, oversaw an archaeological excavation under the Basilica that rediscovered the relics of Ignatius. Gdr 10:49, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ignatius of Antioch