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Baldwin II of Jerusalem

Baldwin II, also known as Baldwin of Bourcq or Bourg (Baudouin; c. 1075 – 21August 1131), was Count of Edessa from 1100 to 1118, and King of Jerusalem from 1118 until his death. He accompanied his cousins Godfrey of Bouillon and Baldwin of Boulogne to the Holy Land during the First Crusade. He succeeded Baldwin of Boulogne as the second count of Edessa when he left the county for Jerusalem following his brother's death. He was captured at the Battle of Harran in 1104. He was held first by Sökmen of Mardin, then by Jikirmish of Mosul, and finally by Jawali Saqawa. During his captivity, Tancred, the Crusader ruler of the Principality of Antioch, and Tancred's cousin, Richard of Salerno, governed Edessa as Baldwin's regents.

Baldwin was ransomed by his cousin, Joscelin of Courtenay, lord of Turbessel, in the summer of 1108. Tancred attempted to retain Edessa, but Bernard of Valence, the Latin patriarch of Antioch, persuaded him to restore the county to Baldwin. Baldwin allied with Jawali, but Tancred and his ally, Radwan of Aleppo, defeated them at Turbessel. Baldwin and Tancred were reconciled at an assembly of the crusader leaders near Tripoli in April 1109. Mawdud, the Atabeg of Mosul, and his successor, Aqsunqur al-Bursuqi, launched a series of campaigns against Edessa in the early 1110s, devastating the eastern regions of the country. Baldwin accused Joscelin of treason for seizing the prosperous town of Turbessel from him in 1113 and captured the neighboring Armenian lordships in 1116 and 1117.

Baldwin of Boulogne, the first king of Jerusalem, died on 2April 1118. He bequeathed Jerusalem to his brother Count Eustace III of Boulogne, stipulating that the throne was to be offered to Baldwin if Eustace failed to come to the Holy Land. Arnulf of Chocques, the Latin patriarch of Jerusalem, and Joscelin of Courtenay, who held the largest fief in the Kingdom of Jerusalem, convinced their peers to elect Baldwin king. Baldwin took possession of most towns in the kingdom and gave Edessa to Joscelin. After the army of the Principality of Antioch was almost annihilated on 28 June 1119, Baldwin was elected regent for the absent Prince Bohemond II of Antioch. The frequent Seljuq invasions of Antioch forced him to spend most of his time in the principality, which caused discontent in Jerusalem. After Belek captured him in April 1123, a group of noblemen offered the throne to Count Charles I of Flanders, but Charles refused. During his absence, the Jerusalemite troops captured Tyre with the assistance of a Venetian fleet. After he was released in August 1124, he tried to capture Aleppo, but al-Bursuqi forced him to abandon the siege in early 1125.

Bohemond II came to Syria in October 1126. Baldwin gave his second daughter, Alice, in marriage to him and also renounced the regency. Baldwin planned to conquer Damascus, but he needed external support to achieve his goal. He married off his eldest daughter, Melisende, to the wealthy Count Fulk V of Anjou in 1129. The new troops who accompanied Fulk to Jerusalem enabled Baldwin to invade Damascene territory, but he could seize only Banias with the support of the Nizari (or Assassins) in late 1129. After Bohemond II was killed in a battle in early 1130, Baldwin forced Alice to leave Antioch and assumed the regency for her daughter, Constance. He fell seriously ill in Antioch and took monastic vows before he died in the Holy Sepulchre. Baldwin had been respected for his military talent, but he was notorious for his "love for money".

Early life
His birth year is unknown. It is only known that his father, Count Hugh I of Rethel, was born in the 1040s and Baldwin was already an adult by the 1090s. He was the lord of Bourcq when he joined the army of his kinsman Godfrey of Bouillon at the beginning of the First Crusade. The army departed for the Holy Land on 15August 1096, and reached Constantinople on 23 December. The Byzantine emperor, Alexios I Komnenos, urged the crusader leaders to take an oath of fealty to him. Godfrey of Bouillon appointed Baldwin, Conon of Montaigu and Geoffrey of Esch to represent him at a meeting with Alexios in January 1097. After Godfrey and his principal commanders swore fealty to the Emperor, the crusader army was shipped to Asia Minor in February.

Baldwin's cousin Baldwin of Boulogne and Tancred of Hauteville broke away from the main army to invade Cilicia around 15September 1097. Baldwin accompanied them in Boulogne's contingent. He also participated in Boulogne's military campaigns against the Seljuq rulers of the fortresses on the plains near the River Euphrates. After seizing Ravendel, Turbessel and Edessa, Boulogne established the first crusader state, the County of Edessa, in early 1098.

Baldwin rejoined the main crusader army, which was marching towards Jerusalem, near Tyre in late May 1099. He and Tancred seized Bethlehem; there was no resistance as the town was inhabited by local Christians. The crusaders laid siege to Jerusalem, and shortly afterwards Baldwin and Tancred captured an elderly Muslim nobleman. After he refused to convert to Christianity, Baldwin's soldiers beheaded him at the Tower of David to frighten the defenders of Jerusalem. Jerusalem fell to the crusaders on 15July. Baldwin left Jerusalem in the retinue of Count Robert II of Flanders in late August. Robert returned to Europe, but Baldwin remained in Syria. Geoffrey of Bouillon died on 18July 1100. Baldwin of Boulogne decided to return to Jerusalem to take possession of Geoffrey's inheritance.

First years
Baldwin was staying in Antioch when Baldwin of Boulogne decided to leave Edessa. He was a military commander of the troops of Bohemond I of Antioch who had recently been captured by Danishmend Gazi. Baldwin of Boulogne summoned Baldwin from Antioch and granted him the County of Edessa. Baldwin swore fealty to Baldwin of Boulogne, who left Edessa for Jerusalem on 2October 1100.

Baldwin married Morphia, the daughter of Gabriel, the Armenian lord of Melitene, which enabled him to consolidate his position among his mainly Armenian subjects. Sökmen, the Artuqid ruler of Mardin, attacked Saruj in early 1101. Baldwin attempted to relieve the town, but Sökmen routed his army, forcing him to return to Edessa. When relating these events, the Armenian historian, Matthew of Edessa, described Baldwin as a coward who was "pitiful in body". Sökmen captured the town, but the fortress resisted his siege. Baldwin went to Antioch to raise new troops before returning to Saruj. He forced Sökmen to leave the town and executed all the townspeople who had cooperated with the Artuqids.

One of his cousins, Joscelin of Courtenay, came to Edessa in 1102. Baldwin granted him lands to the west of the Euphrates. When the Egyptians invaded the Kingdom of Jerusalem in May, Baldwin of Boulogne—who had been crowned king of Jerusalem—sent envoys to Tancred (who ruled Antioch) and Baldwin, seeking their assistance. They assembled their troops and marched to Jerusalem together, but by the time they arrived in late September, the Egyptians had returned to their headquarters at Ascalon. The three crusader rulers made a raid against Ascalon, but Tancred and Baldwin soon returned to their realms.

Tancred's ambitions in northern Syria irritated both Baldwin and Bernard of Valence, the Latin patriarch of Antioch. They started negotiations with Danishmend Gazi regarding Bohemond's release. Kogh Vasil, the Armenian lord of Raban and Kaisun, and Bohemond's Italian kinsmen contributed to his ransom. Bohemond was set free in May 1103. Baldwin granted villages to the Armenian prelate, Barsegh Pahlavuni, because he wanted to strengthen his position among his Armenian subjects.

First captivity
Baldwin's troops made frequent raids against the fertile plains around Harran. Sökmen and Jikirmish, the atabeg of Mosul, made an alliance and invaded Edessa in May 1104. While their troops were assembling at Ras al-Ayn, Baldwin sent envoys to Joscelin and Bohemond and persuaded them to make a joint attack against Harran. Baldwin, Bohemond and Joscelin went together to Harran and entered into negotiations with the Seljuq garrison for a peaceful surrender. However, both Baldwin and Bohemond wanted to seize the wealthy town and the crusader army started disintegrating because of their conflict.

Sökmen and Jikirmish attacked the crusaders' camp at Harran on 7May. Applying the tactic of feigned retreat, they drew the crusaders into an ambush, capturing Baldwin and Joscelin. Bohemond and Tancred rode to Edessa to save the town. Benedict, Archbishop of Edessa, who was also captured but quickly released, and the Edessene knights elected Tancred regent for the captive Baldwin. Baldwin was first taken to Sökman's tent, but Jikirmish's soldiers broke into it and dragged him away. Joscelin remained in the custody of Sökmen, passing to Ilghazi upon the latter's death. The citizens of Turbessel paid a ransom for Joscelin in 1107.

Jikirmish laid siege to Edessa, but Tancred routed his troops, forcing him to flee. Jikirmish then took Baldwin to Mosul. Tancred captured a Seljuq princess of Jikirmish's household at Edessa. Jikirmish offered to pay 15,000 bezants in ransom, or to release Baldwin in return for her liberty. Bohemond and Tancred preferred the money and Baldwin remained imprisoned. Before his departure for Europe in the autumn, Bohemond appointed Tancred to rule Antioch and their kinsman, Richard of Salerno, was entrusted with the administration of Edessa.

A Turkish soldier of fortune, Jawali Saqawa, captured Jikirmish and seized Mosul in 1107. Joscelin started negotiations with Jawali over the release of Baldwin. Jawali demanded 60,000 dinars and the release of the Muslim prisoners from Edessa. The Seljuq Sultan, Muhammad I Tapar, made the Mamluk Mawdud atabeg of Mosul. When Mawdud expelled Jawali from Mosul, Jawali fled to the fortress of Qalat Jabar, taking Baldwin with him. Joscelin paid 30,000 dinars to Jawali and offered himself as hostage to guarantee the payment of the balance. Jawali, who needed allies against Mawdud, accepted the offer and released Baldwin in the summer of 1108.

Conflicts

Baldwin went to Edessa after his release, but Tancred demanded his oath of fealty in exchange for the town. Baldwin refused and went to Turbessel. After Tancred carried out a raid against Turbessel, they started peace negotiations, but could not reach a compromise. Baldwin made an alliance with Kogh Vasil against Tancred. Oshin of Lampron also sent troops—300 Pecheneg horsemen—to join them. Their raids against the Principality of Antioch persuaded Tancred to accept the arbitration of the Catholic prelates, who decided in favor of Baldwin; he returned to Edessa on 18September 1108.

In accordance with his treaty with Jawali, Baldwin released most of the Muslim prisoners held in Edessa. He also allowed the Muslim burghers of Saruj to build a mosque, and executed the unpopular rais (or governor) of the town, who was a convert from Islam. Jawali's alliance with Baldwin alarmed Fakhr al-Mulk Radwan, the Seljuq ruler of Aleppo, which brought about a rapprochement between Radwan and Tancred. When Jawali launched a military expedition against Aleppo, Baldwin and Joscelin of Courtney joined him, while Tancred came to assist Radwan. Radwan and Tancred routed Jawali, Baldwin and Joscelin near Turbessel in late September 1108.

Baldwin fled the battlefield to a nearby fortress. Tancred laid siege to it, but lifted the siege when he learnt of Jawali's approach. Believing that Baldwin had died, the Armenian burghers of Edessa held an assembly to set up a provisional government. After his return, Baldwin thought that the Armenians wanted to dethrone him and ordered the blinding of the ringleaders. The Armenian bishop of the town was obliged to pay a huge fine. To put an end to the conflicts between the crusader leaders, Baldwin I of Jerusalem summoned them in the name of the "Church of Jerusalem" to Mount Pilgrim near Tripoli in April 1109. At the meeting, the king mediated a reconciliation between Baldwin and Tancred, who acknowledged Baldwin's rule in the County of Edessa in exchange for receiving Galilee and other fiefs in the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Thereafter Baldwin participated in the siege of Tripoli, which ended with the capture of the town by the crusaders.

Mawdud's campaigns
The Seljuq sultan instructed Mawdud to unite his troops with the Seljuq ruler of Armenia, Sökmen el-Kutbî, and the Artuqid Ilghazi against the crusaders. They laid siege to Edessa in April 1110. Baldwin sent envoys to Baldwin I of Jerusalem, who was besieging Beirut, urging him to come to his rescue, but the king did not abandon the siege until Beirut fell on 13May. Before departing for Edessa, Baldwin I celebrated Pentecost in Jerusalem. The King persuaded Bertrand of Tripoli, Joscelin of Courtenay and other crusader leaders to join his campaign, and the Armenian Kogh Vasil and Ablgharib also sent contingents. On their arrival, Mawdud and his allies lifted the siege of Edessa and withdrew towards Harran.

Baldwin and Tancred accused each other of having incited the invasion. Tancred also claimed sovereignty over the County of Edessa, saying that its territory had been subject to Antioch under the Byzantine Empire. Baldwin I refuted Tancred's claim, declaring himself the head of the Latin East. After a short campaign against the neighboring Muslim territories, the rulers of the other crusader states decided to leave the county. On the King's advice, Baldwin ordered the transfer of the local Christian (predominantly Armenian) peasants to the lands to the west of the Euphrates. Taking advantage of the gathering of the Christian peasants by the river and their mainly Armenian escort, Mawdud attacked and massacred them. Baldwin, who had already crossed the river along with the other crusader leaders, hastily returned and assaulted Mawdud's troops, although they outnumbered his small retinue. Baldwin and his men were only saved by Baldwin I and Tancred, who had followed on the other bank of the river.

In July 1111 Mawdud launched a new invasion against the county and laid siege to Turbessel. While Mawdud was besieging Turbessel, Sultan, the Munquidite emir (or ruler) of Shaizar, sent envoys to him, seeking his assistance against Tancred. Mawdud lifted the siege of Turbessel and moved to help Shaizar. Toghtekin, the atabeg of Damascus, joined him and they decided to reconquer Tripoli in September. The concentration of Muslim forces alarmed the crusaders and Baldwin I of Jerusalem summoned all crusader rulers to his camp. Baldwin complied, accompanied by his two powerful vassals, Joscelin and Pagan of Sajar. The smaller Muslim rulers had meanwhile left Mawdud's camp and returned to Mesopotamia. Mawdud did not risk a pitched battle with the united crusader armies and retired first to Shaizar, and later to Mosul. In April 1112, Mawdud returned and besieged Edessa. His agents started secret negotiations with some Armenian soldiers in the town, but Joscelin, who was informed of the plot, warned Baldwin. Mawdud could not capture the town and withdrew to Mosul in June. Next year, he was murdered by Assassins at Damascus.

Mawdud's invasions devastated the eastern regions of the county, but Joscelin's fief at Turbessel still flourished. In 1113 Baldwin persuaded Joscelin to come to Edessa, saying that he was dying and wanted to make his last will. Stating that Joscelin had not sent enough food to Edessa, Baldwin had him imprisoned and only released him after Joscelin renounced Turbessel. Joscelin soon left the county for Jerusalem, where Baldwin I granted Galilee to him. A new reconciliation between the crusader leaders was brought about by marriage alliances: Baldwin's sister, Cecilia, was given in marriage to Roger of Salerno, who had succeeded Tancred in Antioch in late 1112; and Joscelin married Roger's sister, Maria.

Expansion
While Baldwin was away from his capital to take possession of Turbessel, the Armenians of Edessa continued to plot against him. He returned to the town and ordered the transportation of the Armenian townspeople to Samosata. After the Armenians started to move to Kaisun, Baldwin allowed those who remained in Samosata to return to Edessa in early 1114.

Mawdud's successor, Aqsunqur al-Bursuqi, invaded the county in May 1114, but Edessa resisted his siege, forcing him to return to Mosul. The Sultan made Bursuq ibn Bursuq of Hamadan the supreme commander of the Seljuq armies. Bursuq moved on Edessa in early 1115, but he soon left for Aleppo. Lulu el-Yaya, the atabeg of Aleppo, sought assistance from Ilghazi and Toghtekin, who also persuaded Roger of Salerno to join their coalition against Bursuq. At Roger's request, Baldwin I of Jerusalem, Pons of Tripoli and Baldwin also gathered their troops at Apamea in August. Bursuq chose to retreat and the crusader rulers dispersed.

Taking advantage of the weakening of the Seljuqs' power after Roger of Salerno's victory at the Battle of Sarmin, Baldwin decided to annex the small Armenian principalities in the valley of the Euphrates. The Armenian Thoros I of Cilicia captured Kogh Vasil's successor, Vasil Dgha, who had made an alliance with Bursuq. Thoros sold Vasil Dgha to Baldwin, who forced his prisoner to renounce Raban and Kaisun in 1116. Next, Baldwin laid siege to Abu'l-Garib's fortress of Birejik. The siege lasted for a year and Ablgharib was forced into surrender in 1117. Baldwin granted the fortress to his cousin, Waleran of Le Puiset. In the same year, Kogh Vasil's brother, Bagrat, had to abandon Cyrrhus and Baldwin captured Constantine of Gargar.

Ascension to the throne
The childless Baldwin I of Jerusalem died on 2April 1118, during a campaign against Egypt. According to the contemporaneous Albert of Aachen he had willed the kingdom to his eldest brother, Eustace III of Boulogne, "if by chance he would come", but also stipulated that Baldwin of Bourcq should be elected king if Eustace were unable to come "because of his age". Baldwin arrived in Jerusalem around the day when the late king's body was carried into the town. Albert of Aachen stated that Baldwin had come to celebrate Easter in Jerusalem without having any knowledge of the King's death. Decades later, William of Tyre recorded that Baldwin had been informed of his kinsman's death during his journey to Jerusalem.

The question of Baldwin I's succession divided the barons and the prelates, according to William of Tyre. The highest-ranking prelate, Arnulf of Chocques, the Latin patriarch of Jerusalem, and Joscelin of Courtenay, who held the largest fief in the kingdom, argued that Baldwin should be elected without delay to avoid an interregnum. Others maintained that the crown should first be offered to Eustace in accordance with Baldwin I's last will. Some "great nobles", whom William of Tyre did not name, were appointed to inform Eustace of his brother's death. However, shortly after their departure, on Easter Day (14 April), Baldwin was anointed. His coronation was delayed for unknown reasons. Patriarch Arnulf died two weeks after Baldwin's anointment and his successor, Warmund of Picquigny, was only installed in August or September.

Baldwin promised the County of Edessa to Joscelin, but Joscelin remained in the kingdom to secure the defence of Galilee. Baldwin convoked the noblemen to an assembly "on an appointed day" to receive "fealty and an oath of allegiance from them", according to Albert of Aachen. He also secured the direct royal control of eight important towns, including Nablus, Jaffa, Acre, Sidon and Tiberias. Modern historian Alan Murray argues that Albert of Aachen's words are evidence that Baldwin "carried out a major distribution of fiefs, granting out some lordships but retaining other towns and territories as domain lands" in 1118. Baldwin also reorganized the royal household, making Hugh Caulis constable, Pagan butler, and John the chamberlain.

Eustace accepted the barons' invitation and left Boulogne for Jerusalem. He had travelled as far as Apulia when he was informed of Baldwin's ascension to the throne. The delegates tried to convince him to continue his journey, saying that Baldwin's election was illegal, but Eustace preferred to return home.

Muslim threat
His predecessor's last campaign against Egypt brought about a rapprochement between Egypt and Damascus. Baldwin sent envoys to Toghtekin in Damascus to argue against his making an alliance with the Egyptian vizier, Al-Afdal Shahanshah, but Toghtekin demanded Oultrejourdain in return for his neutrality. Toghtekin launched an incursion against Galilee and Al-Afdal gathered his troops near Ascalon in May or June 1118. Baldwin hurried to the southern frontier and urged Roger and Pons to send reinforcements from Antioch and Tripoli. Neither the Egyptians nor the crusaders risked a pitched battle and both armies were dissolved three months later. Baldwin and Joscelin made a raid against Damascene territory in the autumn and defeated Toghtekin's son, Taj al-Muluk Buri near Daraa.

Ilghazi, Toghtekin and the Munquidites of Shaizar made an alliance and their troops started raiding Antioch and Edessa in May 1119. Roger sent envoys to Baldwin, urging him to come to the north to fight against the invaders. The envoys met with Baldwin in Tiberias, because he had just concluded a short campaign against a Bedouin tribe in Oultrejourdain. He gathered troops and departed for Antioch, taking a portion of the True Cross with him. Roger did not wait until Baldwin's arrival and marched from Antioch. On the plains of Sarmada Ilghazi's army encircled the crusaders' camp and on 28June inflicted a major defeat in the Battle of the "Field of Blood". Roger and hundreds of his soldiers died fighting and most who survived the battle were taken prisoner. Antioch was left almost undefended, but Ilghazi did not attack the city.

Baldwin and Pons of Tripoli reached Antioch in late July or early August. The leaders of the city acknowledged Baldwin as regent for the lawful prince, the ten-year old Bohemond II, who was living in southern Italy. Baldwin distributed the estates of the noblemen who had perished in the Field of Blood among his retainers, mainly through giving the widows of the deceased lords to them in marriage. Meanwhile, Ilghazi and Toghtekin joined their forces and started to capture the Antiochene fortresses to the east of the Orontes River. Baldwin gathered almost all available crusader troops and marched against the Muslims as far as Tell Danith near Zardana. The crusaders and the united armies of Toghtekin and Ilghazi clashed in the Battle of Hab on 14August. According to Walter the Chancellor, the crusaders routed the Muslims, but Matthew of Edessa stated that "neither side was defeated nor was victorious". Baldwin returned to Antioch two days later, where the townspeople and the patriarch gave him a "victor's welcome". Before leaving Antioch, he granted the County of Edessa to Joscelin of Courtenay.

Baldwin and his wife were crowned king and queen in Bethlehem on Christmas Day. He and the Patriarch held a general assembly at the Council of Nablus on 16January 1120. The prelates and noblemen who attended the meeting confirmed the clergy's right to collect the tithe and to bear arms "in the cause of defense". The council also ordered the punishment of adulterers, pimps, sodomites and bigamists, and prohibited sexual relations between Christians and Muslims. Other decrees established penalties against thieves and those who falsely accused others of crimes. The decisions of the council were the first examples of law making in the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

A confraternity of knights established by Hugh of Payns and Godfrey de Saint-Omer to protect pilgrims in the Holy Land most probably received official recognition at the council, according to historians Malcolm Barber and Christopher Tyerman. Baldwin temporarily lodged the knights in the royal palace on the Temple Mount and they became known as the Knights Templar. He offered Nabi Samwil to the Cistercians, but Bernard of Clairvaux ceded the place to the Premonstratensians who built a monastery. Shortly after the council, Baldwin and Patriarch Warmund also sent letters to Pope Calixtus II and the Venetians, urging them to support the defense of the Holy Land. The crusaders especially needed the Venetians' ships against the Egyptians.

Ilghazi and his nephew, Belek Ghazi, invaded Edessa and Antioch in May 1120. Being responsible for the defense of the northern crusader states, Baldwin decided to again lead his troops to Antioch, but a significant group of the Jerusalemite noblemen and clergy opposed the expedition. Patriarch Warmund refused to accompany the royal army and allowed Baldwin to take the True Cross with him only after lengthy negotiations. Baldwin and his army reached Antioch in June. Ilghazi agreed to sign a one-year truce, which secured the possession of Kafartab and two other fortresses for the crusaders.

Baldwin returned to Jerusalem only in early 1121, after Toghtekin made a raid against Galilee. In July, he invaded Damascene territory and destroyed a fortress that Toghtekin had recently erected near Jerash. David IV of Georgia routed the united armies of Ilghazi and the Seljuq prince Toghrul Arslan in August. Taking advantage of Ilghazi's weakness, Baldwin launched a military campaign across the Orontes. In November this forced Ilghazi's son to hand over to the crusaders Zardana, Atarib and other forts that Ilghazi had captured the previous year.

In early 1122 Pons of Tripoli refused to pledge allegiance to Baldwin for unknown reasons. After Baldwin mustered his troops and marched against Tripoli, Pons paid homage to him without resistance. Ilghazi and Belek laid siege to Zardana in June, but Baldwin and Joscelin of Edessa's arrival forced them to lift the siege in July. Belek ambushed and captured Joscelin near Saruj on 13September. Ilghazi reoccupied Atarib, but he died on 3November 1122. His lands were divided among his sons and nephews. Baldwin, who was still in Antioch, persuaded Badr ad-Daulah Suleiman, the new ruler of Aleppo, to restore Atarib to the crusaders on 2April 1123. Baldwin recaptured Birejik and made Geoffrey, Lord of Marash, regent of Edessa.

Second captivity

Baldwin made a raid towards Kharput where Belek held Joscelin and other knights' captive, but he stopped near Gargar. While Baldwin was preparing to practice falconry on the morning of 18April 1123, Belek attacked his camp and captured him. Baldwin was taken to the fortress of Kharput. While Belek was away in Aleppo in June, Jocelyn's fifty Armenian supporters came to Kharput, disguising themselves as monks, and expelled the Seljuq garrison from the fortress. Joscelin left Kharput to gather troops in Turbessel and Antioch, but Baldwin and the Armenian soldiers remained in the fortress to defend it against Belek. Belek returned to Kharput and forced Baldwin to surrender. Belek ordered the execution of the Armenians and transferred Baldwin to Harran. Baldwin was later imprisoned in the Citadel of Aleppo.

On learning of Baldwin's captivity, Patriarch Warmund convoked the prelates and barons to an assembly which elected Eustace Grenier bailiff (or regent) of Jerusalem. After Grenier died on 15June, William of Bures succeeded him as regent. The bailiffs and the patriarch closely cooperated with each other and other high-ranking officials in administering the kingdom during Baldwin's captivity. They made an alliance—the so-called Pactum Warmundi—with Domenico Michiel, the Doge of Venice, offering commercial privileges to the Venetians in return for their military assistance against the Egyptian towns on the coast. They captured Tyre on 7or 8July 1124.

The contemporaneous Galbert of Bruges recorded that delegates came to Flanders from Jerusalem during Baldwin's captivity. They stated that Baldwin "was grasping and penurious and had not governed the people of God well". They offered the crown to Charles the Good, the Count of Flanders. Bruges's report shows that a faction of the Jerusalemite nobility attempted to dethrone the captive Baldwin. Being the head of the lineage from which the first two rulers of Jerusalem were descended, and also the overlord of their brother, Eustace, Charles the Good was an ideal candidate for the throne. However, he refused the offer. Murray tentatively associates the leader of the discontented noblemen with the Flemish Eustace Grenier.

Belek died fighting against one of his rebellious officials on 6May 1124, and Baldwin was seized by Ilghazi's son, Timurtash. Timurtash entrusted Sultan, the emir of Shaizar, with commencing negotiations for Baldwin's release with Joscelin and Morphia. According to their agreement, Baldwin was to pay 80,000 dinars and to cede Atarib, Zardana, Azaz and other Antiochene fortresses to Timurtash. Baldwin also promised that he would assist Timurtash against the Bedouin warlord, Dubais ibn Sadaqa. After a quarter of Baldwin's ransom was paid and a dozen hostages (including Baldwin's youngest daughter Ioveta and Joscelin's son Joscelin II) were handed over to Timurtash to secure the payment of the balance, Baldwin was released on 29August 1124.

Wars
Baldwin went to Antioch where Patriarch Bernard reminded him that he had not been authorized to renounce Antiochene territories and on 6September 1124 forbade him to cede fortresses to Timurtash. On 6October, Baldwin laid siege to Aleppo where the hostages for his ransom were held. Dubais ibn Sadaqa, and two Seljuq princes, Sultan Shah and Toghrul Arslan, joined him and Timurtash did not support the besieged town. Al-Bursuqi decided to intervene and gathered his troops. On learning of al-Bursuqi's approach, Dubais ibn Sadaqa withdrew from Aleppo, which forced Baldwin to lift the siege on 25January 1125.

After more than two years absence, Baldwin returned to Jerusalem on 3April. He renegotiated the Pactum Warmundi with the Venetians, approving most of its terms in the so-called Pactum Balduini, but also stipulating that the Venetians were to provide military assistance to the kingdom. After al-Bursuqi, Toghtekin and Khirkan of Homs captured Kafartab and laid siege to Zardana, Baldwin again went north. Few knights accompanied him from the kingdom, which according to Murray and Barber may have been a sign of discontent over his frequent campaigns. Pons of Tripoli and Joscelin of Edessa joined him and they defeated the Seljuqs at the Battle of Azaz in late May. The battle has been described by historian Peter Lock as "one of the bloodiest engagements in the history of the crusader states". Spoils seized enabled Baldwin to pay off his ransom before his return to Jerusalem.

The careers of some influential lords started around the time when Baldwin returned to Jerusalem in 1125. Walter I Brisebarre witnessed the Pactum Balduini as lord of Beirut on 2May 1125; Pagan the Butler was first mentioned as lord of Oultrejordain in 1126. According to William of Tyre, Pagan seized Oultrejordain after Roman of Le Puy and his son, Ralph, had been deprived of the territory. Murray argues that Baldwin must have confiscated Oultrejordain from Roman because Roman had been one of his opponents during his captivity. Murray also says that Baldwin allegedly adopted an expansionist policy against Damascus in the late 1120s to assuage the Jerusalemite noblemen's discontent. He made a raid against Damascene territory across the Jordan in early 1126. Accompanied by almost the whole army, Baldwin routed Toghtekin on 25January and returned to the kingdom laden with booty. Shortly thereafter he supported Pons of Tripoli in capturing Rafniye and in raiding Homs. Al-Bursuqi laid siege to Atarib in July 1126. Baldwin again marched north and Joscelin of Edessa joined him at Artah. Both sides wanted to avoid a pitched battle, and al-Bursuqi retired to Aleppo.

Succession
After reaching the age of majority, Bohemond II of Antioch came to Syria to claim his inheritance in October 1126. His arrival put an end to Baldwin's rule in Antioch, but Bohemond married Baldwin's second daughter, Alice. Baldwin, who had no sons, made his eldest daughter, Melisende, his heir in 1126 or 1127.

Baldwin had already realized that the crusaders were unable to conquer Damascus without further reinforcements from Europe. After consulting with his nobles, he sent William I of Bures and Guy I Brisebarre to France to offer Melisende's hand to the powerful count of Anjou, Fulk V, in the autumn of 1127. Hugh of Payns and his five fellows accompanied the envoys. The embassy first visited Louis VI of France, who gave consent to the marriage. The negotiations between Fulk and Baldwin's envoys lasted for months. In August or September 1127, Baldwin launched a new military campaign against Damascene territory. Historian Steven Tibble proposes that the royal fortress at Wadi Musa was built shortly after this.

Baldwin dispatched William I, Archbishop of Tyre, and Robert, Bishop of Lydda and Ramla, to the Holy See. Pope Honorius II stated that Baldwin was the lawful ruler of Jerusalem in a letter of 29May 1129. Christopher Tyerman and Hans Eberhard Mayer agree that the pope wrote his letter to remove any doubts about the legitimacy of Baldwin's rule. On the other hand, Stephen of La Ferté, who had succeeded Warmund of Picquigny as patriarch in July 1128, turned against Baldwin and demanded Jerusalem for the patriarchate.

Fulk of Anjou arrived to the Holy Land in the spring of 1129. He married Melisende and Baldwin granted them the two wealthiest towns of the kingdom, Tyre and Acre. Hugh of Payns, who had achieved the adoption of the statutes of the Knights Templar at the Council of Troyes, returned to the kingdom accompanied by new crusaders.

Toghtekin's successor, Taj al-Muluk Buri, ordered the massacre of the Nizari in Damascus in September 1129. The Nizari's local leader, Ismail al-Ajami, sent envoys to Baldwin and offered the fortress of Banias to the crusaders in return for receiving asylum in the kingdom. Baldwin accepted the offer and his troops seized Banyas. Taking advantage of the presence of the new crusaders, he also decided to launch an attack on Damascus. He gathered all available troops and marched as far as the Wooden Bridge, about 10 km south-west of the town, in November. After Buri's Turcoman horsemen routed a detachment of the crusader army and a heavy storm turned the plains around Damascus into a large marshland, Baldwin had to return to Jerusalem in early December.

After the Danishmend Gazi Gümüshtigin ambushed and killed Bohemond II in February 1130, Baldwin travelled to Antioch to make arrangements for the administration of the principality. Alice, however, wanted to establish herself as regent during the minority of her and Bohemond's infant daughter, Constance, and did not allow Baldwin to enter Antioch. She even sent envoys to Imad ad-Din Zengi, the atabeg of Mosul, to seek his assistance against her father, according to the contemporaneous Ibn al-Qalanisi. The Antiochene noblemen were strongly opposed to her plan and opened two gates of the town, which enabled Baldwin to enter. He forgave his daughter but forbade her to stay in Antioch during Constance's minority. After the Antiochene noblemen swore fealty to him and Constance, Baldwin appointed Joscelin of Edessa to administer the principality.

According to William of Tyre, Baldwin fell seriously ill after his return from Antioch. He was already dying when he made arrangements for his succession in August 1131. He was transferred to the patriarch's palace near the Holy Sepulchre where he bequeathed the kingdom to Fulk, Melisende and their infant son, Baldwin. He took monastic vows and entered the collegiate chapter of the Holy Sepulchre, where he died on 21 August. He was buried in the Holy Sepulchre.

Ancestry
Baldwin was a younger son of Hugh I, Count of Rethel and Melisende of Montlhéry. He was closely related to the lords of Courtenay and Le Puiset, and other noble families in the Ile-de-France. He was also a kinsman of the brothers Eustace III of Boulogne, Godfrey of Bouillon, and Baldwin of Boulogne, but their exact relationship is unknown.

The main concern are the identities of Baldwin II's paternal grandmother and great-grandmother. The Chronicles of Alberic of Trois-Fontaine (written in 1119) describes Yvette, sister of Ebles I of Roucy as "mother of Hugh I, Count of Rethel". This is the traditional genealogy given for Baldwin II. Notwithstanding, considering her family history, such assertion is chronologically impossible. Jean-Nöel Mathieu raises the fundamental objection that Ebles I (who died in 1033), could not have had a sister who was still alive in 1081, instead he argues that she must have been confused with the wife of Manasses II.

Li Estoire de Jerusalem et d'Antioche, written in the 12th century, indicates that Manasses III was married to a daughter of Godfrey III, Duke of Lower Lorraine. This would also explain the connection between the two Baldwins of Jerusalem, as well as the fact that Godfrey made a donation to Manasses in 1065.

Alan V. Murray says that the primary sources suggest that Baldwin II's connection to his predecessors "was not particularly close", and that Baldwin was most probably related to their mother, Ida of Lorraine. Thomas Asbridge says that Baldwin was their second cousin instead.

The family tree below is the reconstruction based on the above two records, which makes Baldwin II a first cousin once removed of his predecessors through their mother. Asbridge's view would match the alternate hypothesis that has Godfrey III's wife Doda as Manasses III's sister instead of his mother-in-law. There is also a hypothesis that Judith was Eustace II's sister. However, Murray objects that there is no allusion of this daughter nor of any other connection between the Rethel and Boulogne families in Genealogica comitum Boloniensium', a compilation of the Boulogne genealogy which was being copied and extended by the mid-twelfth century, when the descendants of Manasses III were ruling the kingdom of Jerusalem. The three women in question are in italics.

Family
Most Armenians adhered to the Armenian Apostolic Church, but Baldwin's wife, Morphia, was born to an Orthodox noble family. Her father, Gabriel, gave her in marriage to Baldwin, because he needed the crusaders' support against his enemies. Morphia gave birth to four daughters. She died on 1October 1126 or 1127.

The eldest daughter of Baldwin and Morphia, Melisende, succeeded Baldwin along with her husband, Fulk. They were crowned in the Holy Sepulchre on 14September 1131. Baldwin's second daughter, Alice, made several attempts to administer Antioch after Baldwin's death. Hodierna was Baldwin and Morphia's third daughter. She was given in marriage to Raymond II, Count of Tripoli before 1138. Ioveta was her parents' youngest daughter, and their only child "born into the purple" (that is after her father's coronation). She entered the Convent of Saint Anne in Jerusalem around 1134. About 10 years later, she became the second abbess of the convent that Melisende had established at the Tomb of Lazarus in Bethany.

Legacy
Baldwin's contemporaries often criticized him. Matthew of Edessa, who recorded the Armenians' grievances during Baldwin's reign in Edessa, described him as a greedy ruler who had "an intolerable love for money". Bernard of Blois, an ascetic monk who settled in the Amanus Mountains, blamed him for "certain enormities in his way of life". Fulcher of Chartres hinted that Baldwin's captivity was a punishment for sin, because he had never seen other kings who were imprisoned.

William of Tyre described Baldwin as "a devout and God-fearing man, notable for his loyalty and for his great experience in military matters," and said that he was nicknamed "the Thorny" (cognominatus est Aculeus). Ibn al-Qalanisi, who calls him "Baldwin the Little" (Baghdawin al-ru'aiuis) to distinguish him from Baldwin I, remarked that "after him there was none left amongst them possessed of sound judgment and capacity to govern".

title: Baldwin II of Jerusalem


text:
Rachel True

Rachel India True (born November 15, 1966) is an American actress. She is best known for her roles in such films as The Craft (1996), Nowhere (1997), and Half Baked (1998). True is also known for her role as Mona Thorne on the UPN sitcom Half & Half, which ran from 2002 to 2006.

Early life
True was born in New York City, the middle of three children. Her father is of Ashkenazi Jewish descent, whereas her mother is of African American heritage. Her younger sister, Noel, is also an actress. True attended New York University.

Career
True made her television debut in 1991 on the Cosby Show episode "Theo's Final". In 1993, she moved to Los Angeles and made her feature film debut playing Chris Rock's character's girlfriend in the comedy CB4. On television, she appeared in episodes of Hangin' with Mr. Cooper, Beverly Hills, 90210, Getting By, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Family Matters, Dream On and well as made-for-television movies Moment of Truth: Stalking Back (1993) and A Walton Wedding (1995). In 1995, she had supporting role in the erotic horror film Embrace of the Vampire starring Alyssa Milano.

In 1996, True landed her breakthrough role as Rochelle Zimmerman in the supernatural horror film, The Craft, where she played a member of a teenage coven. True stated that she had to "fight" to audition for the part and was actively going up against her future co-stars Fairuza Balk, Neve Campbell and Robin Tunney. Her role was originally written for a white actress, but that didn't deter her from auditioning. In 1997, she starred in the comedy-drama film, Nowhere alongside James Duval, the film received mixed reviews from critics. The following year, True starred as Dave Chappelle's romantic interest in the comedy film, Half Baked. Also from 1997 to 1998, she also had the recurring role of Janet Clemens on The Drew Carey Show. From 1999 to 2000, she appeared in the ABC drama series, Once and Again.

True appeared in a number of independent movies, include With or Without You (1999), The Big Split (1999), and Groove (2000). She starred alongside Monica and Essence Atkins in the 2000 romantic drama film Love Song. From 2002 to 2006, True starred with Essence Atkins in the UPN comedy series, Half & Half, as paternal half-sisters who barely knew each other until becoming adults. She returned to film, playing the supporting role in the 2007 comedy The Perfect Holiday. The following years, she appeared in a number of smaller and made-for-television films, include The Asylum productions Social Nightmare (2013), Blood Lake: Attack of the Killer Lampreys (2014), Sharknado 2: The Second One (2014), and Sharknado: Heart of Sharkness (2015). In 2017, True worked as a tarot-card reader in Echo Park.

True released her book, True Heart Intuitive Tarot, Guidebook And Deck in 2020. She appeared in horror films Agnes and Horror Noire in 2021. The following year, she joined the cast of the second season of Amazon Prime Video comedy series, Harlem. Also that year, True was cast in Half Baked 2, the sequel to the 1998 cult comedy, reprising her role as Mary Jane Potman.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Rachel True


text:
Pricing objectives

Pricing objectives or goals give direction to the whole pricing process. Determining what your objectives are is the first step in pricing. When deciding on pricing objectives you must consider: 1) the overall financial, marketing, and strategic objectives of the company; 2) the objectives of your product or brand; 3) consumer price elasticity and price points; and 4) the resources you have available.

Some of the more common pricing objectives are:
 * maximize long-run profit
 * maximize short-run profit
 * increase sales volume (quantity)
 * increase monetary sales
 * increase market share
 * obtain a target rate of return on investment (ROI)
 * obtain a target rate of return on sales
 * stabilize market or stabilize market price: an objective to stabilize price means that the marketing manager attempts to keep prices stable in the marketplace and to compete on non-price considerations. Stabilization of margin is basically a cost-plus approach in which the manager attempts to maintain the same margin regardless of changes in cost.
 * company growth
 * maintain price leadership
 * desensitize customers to price
 * discourage new entrants into the industry
 * match competitors prices
 * encourage the exit of marginal firms from the industry
 * survival
 * avoid government investigation or intervention
 * obtain or maintain the loyalty and enthusiasm of distributors and other sales personnel
 * enhance the image of the firm, brand, or product
 * be perceived as “fair” by customers and potential customers
 * create interest and excitement about a product
 * discourage competitors from cutting prices
 * use price to make the product “visible"
 * help prepare for the sale of the business (harvesting)
 * social, ethical, or ideological objectives

title: Pricing objectives


text:
User:Auren~enwiki

Auren Hoffman is a three-time software entrepreneur who is currently an Entrepreneur In Residence at Blumberg Capital (www.blumbergcapital.com) in San Francisco. Auren was previously the Executive Vice President of Bullhorn Inc. -- a front-office software company serving staffing and recruiting firms.

Prior to Bullhorn, Auren was CEO of BridgePath Corporation, an enterprise software company to recruiting and staffing firms that enabled collaborative placement transactions. He raised over $9 million in venture capital from Charter Ventures and W.R. Hambrecht. He sold BridgePath to Bullhorn in 2002. Auren previously founded Kyber Systems, an Intranet development firm, which managed the implementation of Intranet and extranet systems for Bain & Company, Sybase, Charles Schwab, ASUS, and many others. He sold Kyber Systems to Human Ingenuity in 1997 where he served as Vice President of Consulting. Auren is also a non-employee co-founder of GetRelevant (sold to Lycos in 2002).

Auren is a trustee of the Junior State of America Foundation and the World Affairs Council of Northern California. He is a term member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the founder of the Silicon Forum. Auren also serves as Chairman of the New Century Leadership Circle (http://www.newcenturycircle.org). In 2002, Auren was named to Bill Simon's Task Force on Homeland Security. George Magazine named him one of six future leaders, was named one of the top 30 entrepreneurs under 30 by VAR Business, was named one of the Top 100 most influential people in the recruiting industry by Recruiter Magazine, and was named one of the Bay Area’s most eligible bachelors by the Nob Hill Gazette.

Auren writes a monthly column called Summation (http://www.summation.net) and is the co-author of the book 21st Century Selling. Auren holds a B.S.E. in Industrial Engineering and Operations Research from the University of California, Berkeley.

title: User:Auren~enwiki


text:
User talk:Ram-Man/archive2

What's the minimum size of towns/villages/neighbourhoods that ram-bot goes down to? I ask as there's been some discussion of whether we should have individual articles on topics that effect only a few people (eg obscure albums, obscure people, etc), and was wondering if we should take a similar approach to obscure villages.

I was also wondering if you'd fixed the St. Albans, Maine -> Saint Albans, Maine bug/feature/issue I mentioned above. Thanks. Martin 16:48 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * The minimum size is 0 inhabitants and rightly so. There are plenty of historically significant places where no-one officially lives but many people either work, recreate or visit due to some site of interest in them. Many mining operations, for example, are US Census places but no-one lives there. Obscurity should not really be that important of a criterion for us including things - the only thing that should matter is the confirmability of information presented in the article. That does severely limit the amount of obscure material we have but does allow some obscure stuff that can be confirmed (such as anything the Rambot does). --mav

 * Seems like they might stand some editing though - the auto-generated demographics section is going to be of limited interest for a place with only one occupant... ;-) Is there anyway I could get a complete list of ram-bot articles with, say, ten or fewer people? I've put the ones I've found on List of places with less than ten people. Martin

I was not aware of the St. Albans problem, however, I do know that I fixed the problem of a redirect (at least I think so!). I'll make sure that I recheck it, but I am sure I don't overwrite it anymore. -- RM

An anonymous person claims that Windsor, Colorado is in Weld County, Colorado, rather than Larimer County, Colorado as the Wikipedia currently has it. I wouldn't have a clue, but I thought I should report it to you, since you're doing these things. Incidentally, while I'm on the subject, I don't suppose that it would be possible to have your bot write things like Larimer County, Colorado instead of Larimer County, Colorado, would it? That way we could go directly from a town page to a state page without having to go via the county page. That is, if you ever set the rambot off again... -- Oliver P. 04:48 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * The town is actually located in both counties. I cited their own website in the article as a source of this data.  The census bureau may just have picked one to use or some other reason that I don't know.  This is just one of many special cases that locals who know the area find from time to time.  I don't claim that the census bureau is totally accurate or that it does not make certain assumptions that people don't like.  Also, the bot has been running lately (check the user contributions for Rambot), but its edits are hidden from view so that it does not clutter up the display of recent changes.  It would be very easy to change from the one style to the other.  Maybe if you are not the only person who likes the idea we can change it.  -- RM

I was wondering if the size information on Carol Stream, Illinois was correct. I live there, and 9 square miles seems a bit too small -- Ilyanep

I don't know about your particular case, but you may be seeing the houses of people who live outside the city limits. Also, the town boundaries may not be a perfect square 3 miles on a side; it might gerrymander around the built-up area of the town. GUllman

 * While this may be the case, it is surely not the only possibility. There are a plethora of ways to decide where a city begins and ends.  This includes but is not limited to the legal chartered boundaries (which interestingly enough are now being debated with the onset of GPS technology), postal service designations, census bureau (sometimes this can be somewhat arbitrary) boundaries, and even voting districts.  As this is the case, our data is cited to be the census bureau even though this may not be the legal boundaries.  The "fix" is to add the legal boundaries if they are different.  This may actually be done in the future by the rambot. -- RM

 * Great! -- Ilyanep

Oops. message for you at user talk:Rambot. Koyaanis Qatsi 03:58 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * I looked, and added to it. :-) Koyaanis Qatsi

Also along the lines of "Spellbot", see the question at the bottom of Wikipedia talk:Boilerplate text. Someone's wondering if we can do something similar to make the capitalization of "External links" consistent. -- John Owens 20:47 23 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * Basically there are a number of things that should or could be done automatically. With regards to the geographic articles on cities and counties I would do a widespread replace of certain wordings and capitilizations and so forth to make things consistent.  So I was not planning on creating a new "SpellBot" per se, but just extending what I have to do spelling in addition to what it does now.  And doing external link capitilization would also be doable I think.  -- RM

You have been nominated and approved for Adminship. All we now need is for you to either accept or decline the position. Please indicate your decision on Requests for adminship. --mav - Congratulations, you have just been made a sysop! Sysops basically can't do anything: They cannot delete pages arbitarily (only obvious junk like "jklasdfl,öasdf JOSH IS GAY"), they cannot protect pages in an edit war they are involved in, they cannot ban signed in users. What they can do is delete junk as it appears, ban anonymous vandals, remove pages that have been listed on Votes for deletion for more than a week, protect pages when asked to by other members, and help keep the few protected pages there are, among them the precious Main Page, up to date.

Note that almost everything you can do can be undone, so don't be too worried about making mistakes. You will find more information at Administrators, please take a look before experimenting with your new powers. Drop me a message if there are any questions or if you want to stop being a sysop (could it be?). Have fun! --Eloquence 03:01 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * Woohoo! Lucky Me! -- RM

--- I believe there is a convention to use US, instead of U.S. Certainly I prefer it, the extra. are kinda unnecessary. Pizza Puzzle
 * Wikipedia has no convention on this. It's a style issue; some writers, editors, and publications prefer to leave the periods in to avoid possible confusion with the word "us"; some prefer to omit them to save space; some have either preference for other reasons.Vicki Rosenzweig

Then there should be a vote, so that there is a convention, so that we don't have to argue about it. Pizza Puzzle

 * The most proper would be U.S.A., but no one wants that :) Seriously though, U.S. is the proper thing to do gramatically since it is not an acronym and it is an abbreviation.  Someone may think I am being picky, but I think that would should strive to make it gramatically proper even though "US" may be popular.  That is merely my view though. -- RM

 * I prefer "US", personally. Mostly we seem to not use fullstops in abbreviations, even on US subjects such as the DMCA (not D.M.C.A.).
 * Both options are grammatically correct. Martin 00:36 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * Understood. The DMCA was a coined term that is supposed to be an acronym.  The U.S. (or US) is not used exclusively in said manner.  Now granted the US is a very popular set of letters but it is possible that it might confuse a person who does not actually live in the U.S.  The latter is clearer and much less prone to any sort of confusion.  It is stupidly obvious.  Like most things though, I don't think it matters too much in the long run.  I like B.C. instead of B.C.E., but either one is accurate and either one is equally "religiously biased".  Just some thoughts. I'll try to avoid edit wars.  I have so far! -- RM

I prefer BC over B.C.. Pizza Puzzle

 * Funny! -- RM

Look at what I did to Quitman, Missouri. Should I be able to do this? And would it be a good idea if there was a script that did more of exactly this? (I can't do scripts myself. Sorry.)

I am guessing that if you can do scripts, you can input numbers as words.

 * I'll look into it. -- Ram-Man

Going back to an earlier comment regarding the USA census results, I have in fact added some colour to a few towns. Unfortunately, as a Brit who has spent a total of 10 days in the USA in Florida, I am probably the least qualified person to do this. I haven't seen anyone else adding anything, so it would be reassuring to know if any American contributors were building o the bare statistical facts as well.jimfbleak 12:07 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)

 * Sure, see Topeka, Kansas amoung others. Many people do their home towns, and as I get tired of working on the Baha'i subjects, I'm doing eastern Kansas. It will be a while, there are a lot of towns in eastern KS and not a lot of wikipeidans.    Did you do YOUR hometown? Not many Brit towns are in the database. Rick Boatright 17:16 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)~

 * I've added info to dozens of towns, and I know others have been doing the same. --Infrogmation

Hrmm, I have looked at the FAQ and I don't think this is covered - I see that the bulk, in fact, nearly 100% of Rambot's new pages today have another page of a place with the same name but a different status. ie Geneva (city), New York and Geneva (town), New York - is this correct? It seems odd. I presume there must be some physical relation between these places, since the odds of this happening with every name are very low if it was just a case of 2 separate places with the same name... Evercat 02:08 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * This has been a long overdue addition to many missing cities. The census bureau lists over a thousand places with two separate sets of data.  In New York a "town" is contained within a "city" of the same name.  They are two distinct entities with the same name.  These are the only articles left to be made by the rambot.  -- RM

Hrmm, one feels that the article about the embedded place should link to the article about the surrounding place... Evercat 02:41 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * It would make sense, however, I do not know enough about these some 1,000 places to pinpoint the exact relationship between them. Some places are designated as a "Census Designated Place (CDP)" and as such *may* just be an arbitrary census bureau designation that has nothing to do with the legal city boundary... or maybe it really is a part-whole relationship.  In otherwords, I am not in a position to tell what it is, so it will have to be up to locals to try and figure it out (if possible).  Make sense? -- RM

Fair enough. Evercat 02:55 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I don't know if I've brought this to the right place...for every county/city article made, under demographics, the Asian American group is listed as Asian, which should be listed instead as Asian American. Those links will offend someone! There are too many cities for me to edit manually, but if you can, please make this change. --Jiang 09:48 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * First of all while we don't go out of our way to offend anyone here, I don't suspect that we change things just because someone is offended by them. For instance, many people do not like the usage of "A.D." versus "C.E" because of the former's association with the Christian religion.  Nevertheless we use it anyway and I won't get into the politics of why we do it.  Totally aside, however, is that when the U.S. Census Bureau uses the term "Asian" (and this is the term they use, I am merely restating it), they are not referring exlusively to "Asian Americans" but to *all* people of an Asian culture.  This is an all encompassing category to include those who associate *themselves* with that race.  They do not even need to be American citizens to be included, but merely those living at the place in question.  Thus, "Asian American" would be factually incorrect, and thus we do not use it.  If someone is offended by the facts, well there is nothing I can do about *that*.  Remember that those who fill out the census bureau's forms have a choice as to which race they consider themselves.  They are not forced to put one over another.  Besides, American is a nationality/culture, not a race. -- Ram-Man 21:55 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * So non-citzen Africans (illegal, international students?) are included in the category "from other races" and not "African American" in those statistics? --Menchi 22:16 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I'll check into this issue further, as I could very well be quite wrong in my assessment. I will get back when I learn more.... -- Ram-Man 00:21 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * The census bureau divides people into six categories: "White", "Black or African American", "American Indian and Alaska Native", "Asian", "Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander", and "Some other race". Those are the breaks and people select whatever fits them best.  In addition to this, people who put more than one race get their own category: "Two or more races".  I guess that is for people who are mixed or something of that sort.  Those are the terms used by the census bureau, so I think I used the same terms in the articles.  The census bureau considers those who are citizens AND non-citizens, so yes those who are illegal residents are theoretically required to state that they live in such and such a place and are of such and such race (given the above categories).  Oddly enough I chose the politically correct term "African American" and left out the term "Black", which would make the articles more accurate.  To be correct I should either change "African American" to "Black" or just make it both.  I picked one to save space which might have been a mistake.  I hope this helps. -- Ram-Man 00:31 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * When someone becomes an "American" is up to debate. Legally, it is when one becomes a citizen. But culturally, when? What if a person has resided here for 20 years? Are you to say he is not an American?

 * To be accurate, you should change it to "Asian or Asian American," and not simply "Asian". Otherwise, you are implying that all Asians in America belong in or come from Asia while other races do not. Otherwise, African American would be linked to Africa. I believe a white immigrant from Europe would likely check the white box. The point is--not all "Asians" are immigrants. The good number are "Asian Americans". But you've left them out! Although the census bureau may use those terms, I'm pretty sure they're not referring to real Asians--people living in Asia. Maybe "Americans" is left out to shorten the title. I hardly believe they equate that term with the continent, as is now linked. But if it is your concern that people who are not really Americans are included in that group, you must not treat the entire group as not being American. Both "Asian" and "Asian American" are needed. --Jiang 03:10 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I think it's an accuracy issue first and foremost, and as we know the federal government is hardly a standard on which to judge accuracy (they can't even decide how to spell Department of Veterans' Affairs, for example). Unless I'm completely misinformed, the vast majority of people covered in the census under "Asian" are in fact Asian-American, and those who aren't are at least living in America; to link to Asia from this stat is confusing, in my opinion. - Hephaestos 18:18 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * So what should it say or link to? -- Ram-Man 22:13 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I'm tempted to link it to Asian but I'm not positive about the demographics myself (although I'm almost positive that people on visas aren't counted in the census). Another possibility might be to link it to Asian and stub out an article there explaining what that means; if it turns out the demographics are virtually the same as I suspect then Asian (US Census) could be made into a redirect to Asian American and we'd be little the worse off. - Hephaestos 23:23 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I found a publication at here that has the following definition for an "Asian"

 * “Asian” refers to those having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

 * Now I don't know if this really qualifies as deserving an article. It is merely a definition.  Maybe it should be placed on the Geographic references page, although that is not exactly the purpose of the article.  There is also a definition of "Pacific Islander".  So should it be included in its own article or just a subheading under the census bureau's reference? -- Ram-Man 23:34 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I found a better reference which defines everything there is to know about what they call "Race". So I think the more general question is, where do we put census related definitions? -- Ram-Man 23:50 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I'm guessing those would go well in United States Census Bureau, but that still wouldn't solve the cities-links problem, unless the articles were gone through to change African American, Hispanic etc. for consistency. - Hephaestos 23:56 19 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * What I was originally thinking was to change all of the race links to wherever we decide to place the census bureau's definitions. I have not been keeping up with the discussion, but some things (like the U.S. Constitution) are not meant to be changed.  In a similar way these definitions are not going to change (at least not often) and maybe are not appropriately placed in the main article.  I don't know that there is a good alternative.  Maybe putting them in their own page is best and then we can move them elsewhere as we see fit.  Then the race links can all point to that page until we decide whether or not to move it elsewhere.  -- Ram-Man 00:01 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * These aren't Constitution-style set-in-stone things, they change with every census. (I'm pretty sure "Negro" was a checkbox in 1960.)  The distinction between "Hispanic" and "Latino" is very recent.
 * That said, I like the idea of putting them on their own page and moving them as we see fit, due to the fluidity of wiki itself. By definition they can only change once every ten years. - Hephaestos 00:30 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * That's great. I'll make up the article and eventually run the bot on the article to do the update.  I do think that we should keep the wording used by the census bureau at "Asian" since the bureau counts anyone who is Asian, not just those who are American. -- Ram-Man 00:47 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I have been participating in the creation of small highlighted maps of U.S. counties (see discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Counties). Since there are many hundreds of these, we were wondering about ways to upload them. Is there any way rambot can help us with this? As a rough estimate, there will be around 20 to 30MB of images. I'd appreciate your suggestions. Thanks! -- Wapcaplet 17:43 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I've never uploaded anything using the rambot, so I don't know what this would entail. Since it requires uploading, it is a different animal from what the rambot has currently done.  As such, I don't suspect that I can easily do this without some changes.  And I am quite sure no one wants to wait around for that to happen since I don't know when I might have time (and desire) to do it.  I have a large list of things to do with the rambot, and they get done periodically when I get the inspiration.  That could be days or months.  In otherwords, don't count on me, but if no one wants to do it, eventually I could add the feature to it. -- RM

 * Wapcaplet, can you put your images on the Web somewere? I might be able to do something... -- The Anome 21:59 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi there,

Apologies about deleting your references from schizophrenia article. I was just concerned that since it is a big article (and was one already) not having numbered references made them as good as useless as there is no indication as to which part of the text they refer. Thanks very much for numbering it though. I realise that it is uncommon for encyclopaedia articles to use numbered references but I think it's important when articles get particularly big or they discuss particularly important or controversial subjects such as medical conditions.

I was hoping that the first bit of the article would act as a summary without references, so the casual reader could get a good understanding whilst the main body of the text would go into more detail. If you don't mind I'll replace the repeated bit of text you removed, but perhaps in summary form ! I realise having text repeated verbatim isn't ideal.

Apologies for deleting the tobacco information, that was unintended and pure carelessness on my part.

At the moment, I'm working down through the article, fact checking, referencing and rewriting where necessary. I'll review the whole thing when it's done (as I'm sure other people will).

And thanks for joining the psychopathology project.

Best wishes, -- Vaughan

On the subject of U.S. Counties: The Anome has come up with an automated upload method (see his talk page for discussion), but we'll still need a way to insert the Wiki-code for each image into the county articles. Can rambot do this? I'm thinking something like:

There are a couple states that don't follow this naming convention (Alaska has boroughs and census areas instead of counties, Lousiana has Parishes), but those could pretty easily be done by hand if necessary.

Apparently there was some discussion about where to place the maps. I think at the top of the article would be fine, but Mav suggests using the empty space adjacent to the list of adjoining counties. Whatever is easiest. All of the images are a consistent 300 pixels wide, but some of them are taller than others. Let me know if you can help with this! Thanks. -- Wapcaplet 13:30 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I can probably do it. Won't have time for a few days though.  -- RM

 * No problem. User:The Anomebot is uploading them at the rate of one per four minutes; it will be several days before the rest of the states are even ready to upload. Take your time :) -- Wapcaplet 22:04 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Butte, Montana and Silver Bow, Montana are two separate towns in Silver Bow County, Montana. However it appears that the census runs them together in some strange way (maybe even lumping the entire county together!) as Butte-Silver Bow, Montana, Butte-Silver Bow (town), Montana, and Butte-Silver Bow (balance), Montana. The Butte-Silver Bow county website (Butte-Silver Bow Local Government) might help resolve some confusion.

Hope this helps some. -- RTC 01:20 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I was already somewhat aware of this problem. It appears as if both towns are physically separate but are joined in terms of government.  The census bureau possibly takes the whole thing as under one government and hence one body.  But then again I am not sure what articles match up with what physical boundaries.  I guess I or someone else will have to figure this out some more. -- RM

 * I found another detail: "In 1977 Butte consolidated with Silver Bow County as Butte-Silver Bow city, sharing one government headed by an elected chief executive and other officials." on The City Of Butte . Com. -- RTC 01:41 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * So my guess is since 1977 the entire county government is run by the Butte "city government" as one entity. Thus the strange census data. -- RTC 01:50 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * A brief analysis of some of the stats seems to indicate that Silver Bow County, Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (town), Montana are identical and Butte-Silver Bow, Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (balance), Montana are identical. I don't understand the delta between the numbers though. The differences look funny to me (way too low for the town separate from the rest of the county) as IIRC Butte is the largest "city" in the county. Maybe one data set is Butte and the other is the rest of the county, but why it would then be repeated in this odd way, confuses me. I'll do some more research on this. -- RTC 02:32 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well, I think I may have it, but I am only about 90% sure as there are things that still don't make sense. Viewed this way the population data makes sense, with the town of Butte having a population of 33,892 and the combined City/County of Butte-Silver Bow having a population of 34,606. There are apparently very few people living outside of the town of Butte itself. However the area data doesn't make sense any way I look at it, all four articles give areas covering roughly the entire Silver Bow County.
 * Butte-Silver Bow, Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (balance), Montana are identical and are probably the data for the town of Butte itself.
 * Silver Bow County, Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (town), Montana are identical and are the data for the combined City/County of Butte-Silver Bow.

I have checked population data for both the town and the county using Montana NRIS On-Line Interactive Map Builder. This is a very helpful site based on data from the census and other sources. -- RTC 09:13 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

'Yes! I have it now.' The area data that didn't make sense before now does. Apparently when the Butte City government merged with the Silver Bow County government to form the single entity of Butte-Silver Bow, it appears that Butte annexed ALL of the unincorporated land remaining in the county. So for all practical purposes (except for a few small towns that were already incorporated) the city of Butte now fills Silver Bow County. Somewhat like San Francisco, California completely fills San Francisco County, California, but without containing other separately incorporated towns in the county.

I would suggest doing the following:
 * Moving Butte-Silver Bow, Montana to Butte, Montana and editing as needed.
 * Deleting Butte-Silver Bow (balance), Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (town), Montana.

-- RTC 21:38 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

OK, I finally decided to do it myself as follows:
 * Moved Butte-Silver Bow, Montana to Butte, Montana and edited as seemed appropriate.
 * Changed Butte-Silver Bow (balance), Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (town), Montana to redirects.
 * Edited Silver Bow County, Montana as seemed appropriate.

Please review these changes. OK? -- RTC 22:59 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Ok I shall try. I am having some internet connectivity problems, so I have only been even more part time around here until that gets resolved!  But I will glance at it when I have the time and internet. -- Ram-Man 11:04 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I kind of did my favorites first. *grin* So they're not in any real order. On the other hand if I keep at it I can probably have them all done manually in a couple of weeks or so. Although I certainly wouldn't turn down help on the project. (I think it's better done manually too, I've found some glitches here and there in the uploads.) - Hephaestos 02:34 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I can do a number of automated checks. First of all, if an article already contains a picture I will look at it manually.  If it doesn't then I will try to check to make sure that the picture exists with that name and if not do it manually.  But we could use your editing skills for other things rather than grunt work.  I created 90% or so of the county articles in the first place.  I generated the articles using software but I manually cut and pasted the stuff into the some 2000 or so articles.  It took me weeks.  When I made the bot it added the 30,000 cities in a *very* short time in comparison.  Plus doing things manually with a cut and paste action is prone to errors in ways that a bot isn't (interestingly enough).  Let's just say that you should save yourself as much work as possible, since I have to do a bot scan over all the articles anyway. -- Ram-Man 02:44 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ram-Man/archive2


text:
Variety

Variety may refer to:

Entertainment formats

 * Variety (radio)
 * Variety show, in theater and television

Films

 * Variety (1925 film), a German silent film directed by Ewald Andre Dupont
 * Variety (1935 film), a British musical film
 * Variety (1935 German film), a German drama film
 * Variety (1971 film), a Spanish drama film
 * Variety (1983 film), an American independent film

Music

 * Variety (Family Fodder album), tenth studio album by Family fodder
 * Variety (Les Rita Mitsouko album), seventh studio album by Les Rita Mitsouko
 * Variety (Mariya Takeuchi album), sixth studio album by Mariya Takeuchi
 * Variety, a 2015 EP by Mrs. Green Apple
 * Variety (Tokyo Jihen album), third studio album by Tokyo Jihen
 * Variety Records, a short-lived US record label that was produced by Brunswick Records

Other uses in arts and entertainment

 * Variety (magazine), an entertainment industry newspaper
 * Variety Film Reviews is the 24-volume hardcover reprint of the magazine feature film reviews
 * Variety Television Network, an American former digital subchannel
 * "Variety", a 2002 Oz television episode

Businesses and organizations

 * Variety, the Children's Charity, international charity to help children with special needs
 * Variety Cruises, a cruise line
 * Variety (magazine), an entertainment industry newspaper
 * Variety Wholesalers, a retail store owner operating in the southeastern United States

Mathematics and systems

 * Algebraic variety, the set of solutions of a system of polynomial equations
 * Variety (cybernetics), the number of possible states of a system or of an element of the system
 * Variety (universal algebra), classes of algebraic structures defined by equations in universal algebra

Other uses

 * Variety (linguistics), a specific form of a language (or of a dialect continuum)
 * Variety, a term in coin collecting
 * Variety Jones, pseudonym of a person closely involved with the founding of the darknet market Silk Road

title: Variety


text:
Talk:Variety

Linguistics
Just on first reading, I think we should go either with linguistic style and linguistic variety, or just style and variety, for consistency's sake. -- Hephaestos 03:41 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

You have a point there! I was initially thinking of "Variety (linguistics)", then of "Variety of language", but didn't finish my thought. I wrote "linguistic style" since I was tired and couldn't think clearly... -- Ruhrjung 03:48 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * I am sorry Ruhrjung, but upon consideration I have nothing to contribute on what variety should be called. Best be honest rather than invent some idiotic suggestion out of thin air. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 23:06 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Mathematical Varieties
Discussion about listing various types of mathematical varieties.

I think when mathematicians talk of a variety they mean an Algebraic variety significantly more than Variety (universal algebra). On that note, there are many many types of algebraic varieties: Severi variety, Abelian variety, Albanese variety, Chow variety, Picard variety, Toric variety, Flag variety, Fano variety, Jacobian variety, Shimura variety, Bott-Samelson variety, Deligne-Lusztig variety, Spherical variety, Schubert variety, Calabi-Yao variety, Veronese variety, Secant variety, Cactus variety, Segre variety, Severi-Brauer variety, Complex-analytic variety, etc. Should this become a subcategory page, or just included here? -- Mahrud 07:45 21 Dec 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Variety


text:
Human Being (album)

Human Being is the third studio album by Seal, released in 1998. The title track was written about late rappers Tupac Shakur and The Notorious B.I.G. Human Being received mixed reviews ranging from being panned for its overtly dark and moody feel, to being described in terms such as "pop perfection". The album failed to sell in the same way as his 1994 multi-platinum album, Seal. However, it is a fan favourite and was inspired by his then-girlfriend, Tyra Banks and their breakup.

A remix of "Lost My Faith" was featured over the closing credits of the 1999 film Entrapment, and the song's single release was accompanied by a music video in which Seal is integrated into scenes from the film alongside Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones.

The cover art for the album was shot by French fashion photographer Jean-Baptiste Mondino.

Personnel

 * Seal – vocals, guitars, bass
 * Jamie Muhoberac – keyboards, programming, bass
 * Lisa Coleman – additional keyboards
 * George De Angelis – additional keyboards
 * Mike Garson – additional keyboards
 * Grant Mitchell – additional keyboards, programming
 * Dave Palmer – additional keyboards
 * David Sancious – additional keyboards
 * Dave McCracken – programming
 * William Orbit – programming
 * Andy Richards – programming
 * Danny Saber – programming, additional guitars
 * Chris Bruce – guitars, bass
 * Earl Harvin – guitars, bass, drums
 * Gregg Arreguin – additional guitars
 * Gus Isadore – additional guitars
 * Chester Kamen – additional guitars
 * Wendy Melvoin – additional guitars
 * Ramón Stagnaro – additional guitars
 * Alex Acuña – percussion
 * Andy Duncan – percussion
 * Anne Dudley – string arrangements
 * Nick Ingman – string arrangements
 * Wil Malone – string arrangements
 * Aaron Zigman – string arrangements

Production

 * Trevor Horn – producer
 * Steve Fitzmaurice – recording, mixing
 * Tim Weidner – recording, mixing
 * Michael Perfitt – recording assistant, additional engineer
 * Tom Elmhirst – additional engineer
 * Gregg Jackman – additional engineer
 * Richard Lowe – additional engineer, mixing (7)
 * Steve Orchard – additional engineer
 * Mike Ross-Trevor – additional engineer
 * Alex Black – assistant engineer
 * Stuart Brawley – assistant engineer
 * Rob Brill – assistant engineer
 * Andre Coulam – assistant engineer
 * Andy Davies – assistant engineer
 * Tony Flores – assistant engineer
 * Gordon Fordyce – assistant engineer
 * Billy Gibson – assistant engineer
 * Barry Goldberg – assistant engineer
 * Mark Lane – assistant engineer
 * Luis Quine – assistant engineer
 * Iain Roberson – assistant engineer
 * Paul Silveira – assistant engineer
 * Dan Vickers – assistant engineer
 * Tim Wills – assistant engineer
 * Don C. Tyler – digital editing
 * Alexander Areteos – technical assistant
 * Justin Fraser – technical assistant
 * Stephen Marcussen – mastering at Precision Mastering (Hollywood, California)
 * Debbie Caponetta – production coordinator
 * Pat Dorn – production coordinator
 * Tom Mayhue – production coordinator
 * Augusta Quiney – production coordinator
 * Melanie Niessen – art direction
 * Matt Coonrod – design
 * Jean-Baptiste Mondino – photography
 * Bob Cavallo – management
 * Rebecca Mostow – management

title: Human Being (album)


text:
Seal IV

Seal IV is the fourth studio album by Seal. It follows the aborted sessions for Togetherland, which was scrapped because Seal thought it was not up to the standard of his previous work.

In the United Kingdom, the album debuted at number four. In the United States, it debuted at number three on the US Billboard 200, making it his highest-charting album to date.

Track listing
Notes
 * undefined signifies a co-producer
 * undefined signifies additional production and remix

Personnel

 * Seal – vocals, keyboards (2, 6, 9), bass (4, 9-11), guitars (9, 11)
 * Jamie Muhoberac – keyboards (1-12), bass (3, 10), acoustic piano (9, 10)
 * Mark Batson – keyboards (1-3, 7-9, 12), acoustic piano (2, 5), bass (2, 3, 6-9), drum programming (3, 6, 7), organ (6)
 * Pete Murray – keyboards (1, 5, 12), acoustic piano (2, 5)
 * Trevor Horn – acoustic piano (4), guitars (4-6), keyboards (6), bass (5), extra bass (6)
 * Carlos Rios – keyboards (11)
 * Chris Bruce – guitars (1-4, 6-8, 10, 12), bass (1, 12)
 * Tim Cansfield – guitars (1, 2, 5, 12)
 * Gus Isidore – guitars (1-3, 7, 10, 12)
 * Tim Pierce – guitars (3, 4)
 * Alan Griffiths – guitars (10), drum programming (10)
 * Steven Shane McDonald – guitars (11)
 * Heitor Pereira – guitars (11)
 * Earl Harvin – drums (1, 3, 4, 7-10, 12)
 * Ian Thomas – drums (2, 5)
 * Charlie Russell – drum programming (6)
 * Luís Jardim – percussion (1-12)
 * Nick Ingman – string arrangements (1, 2, 6, 7, 9-12), choir arrangements (1, 2, 12), orchestral arrangements (5)
 * Steve Sidwell – horn and choir arrangements (3), string arrangements (3, 8)
 * Gavyn Wright – string leader (1-3, 5-12)
 * Tessa Niles – additional backing vocals (1, 12)

Production

 * Jeff Aldrich – A&R
 * Seal – executive producer, liner notes
 * Jill Sinclair – executive producer
 * Robert Orton – engineer (1-12), mixing (1-12)
 * Tim Weidner – engineer (1-12), mixing (1-12)
 * Steve Price – string recording (1-12), choir recording (1-3), horn recording (3), orchestra recording (5)
 * Tim Lambert – assistant engineer (1-12), additional engineer (1, 3, 4, 10)
 * Phil Tyreman – assistant engineer (1-12)
 * Dan Vickers – additional engineer (4)
 * Deepsky – remixing (13)
 * Jeffrey Kent Ayeroff – creative director
 * Jeri Heiden – art direction
 * Glen Nakasako – design
 * Robert Maxwell – cover photography
 * Sacha Waldman – inside photography
 * Irving Azoff, John Baruck, Tom Consolo and Susan Markheim – management

title: Seal IV


text:
Talk:Seal IV

[moved from article space]

Untitled
Who's got this cd! PLEASE let me know! (bloodyuser@yahoo.com), THANKS!! (I'm not sure it's gonna make it to Argentina...) :-(

(By the way, whose albums are these? - Hephaestos 03:47 29 Jun 2003 (UTC))

The track listing is not the same as the European release. I can't be bothered to fiddle with this stb Jfdwolff 21:56, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SealIV.jpg
Image:SealIV.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SealIV.jpg
Image:SealIV.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 09:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Title
A few days ago, User:Z33k has moved from Seal (2003 album) to Seal IV, commenting "Seal IV written on CD". The article and the main Seal article indicate that the title Seal IV was not used in most territories. Shouldn't we stay with the official title as Seal ? -- Beardo (talk) 21:56, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The official title is the one printed on the CD; Seal IV.--z33k (talk) 12:22, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Seal IV


text:
Talk:Baka

Untitled
I have never heard this folk story before. I believe that it is an incorrect interpretation of a Chinese idiom 指鹿為馬 (point to a deer and call it a horse): In Qin dynasty, 趙高, the high official who really held the power, wanted to test the loyality of other officals (to him). To do so, he pointed to a deer and call it a horse, then anyone who dared to correct his mistake was regarded as a treat and was later eliminated.

Therefore, this idiom means "confound right and wrong intentionally". Wshun

 * I'll have to look into it, but I had always heard the story that Zhao Gao eliminated--by either firing or killing, can't recall--those advisors who failed to correct him, since he didn't want to be surrounded by yes men. Internet sources everywhere seem to contradict each other, I suppose I'll hit up a library someday soon. --AsianAstronaut 12:03, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Many kanji in Japanese have legendary etymologies, more used as mnemonics than chosen for accuracy. User:Ashibaka

I heard that baka is derived from Sanskrit "moha" (unconsciousness, delusion of mind, ignorance). "moha" is usually transcribed as 莫迦 in Chinese characters. 馬鹿 was originally a Buddhist jargon and seems "ateji" or characters that represent the sound without the meaning. But it's very likely that the coiner(s) assosiated ばか with 指鹿為馬 when selecting the characters 馬 and 鹿. --Nanshu 03:01, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Does this entry really belong in Wikipedia? What's next, neko?
 * neko? what is this neko? the only def i could find was cat. def plz --Rey

What do you think about the theory that Baka is derived from portuguese "Vaca", (Cow) and became popular after the japanese-portuguese trade routes? Is that just a false etymology? (If there exists examples before the trade route, it should disprove this theory with certainty...)
 * i got ¥20 says it's false --Rey

What the hell is that last piece of garbage about dancing bakas? That should be taken out.

That Japanese baka.
Shouldn't we put the Japanese meaning of baka as stupid in? I've seen 5-6 different people tried to edit that in, only to be reverted out. This could go on forever, since every anime fan who listens to Japanese soundtrack would remember the word immediately. In the end, it would only lead to an ongoing edit war.

Come on, what's to lose anyway? Neko has its own disambiguation page full of cat-related contents. Kuso goes further, having its own article. Why can't we just put one sentence Japanese definition in once and for all? - DTRY 22:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is that this goes directly against our manual of style for disambiguation pages:

For foreign-language terms, be sure an article exists or could be written for the word or phrase in question. Usually this means that the term has been at least partially adopted into English or is used by specialists.
 * {| style="border: 1px solid black" width=100%

Avoid adding lines for words or phrases that are simply spelled the same as an English term. For example:
 * Tambo may refer to:
 * Tambo (weapon), a very short staff used in martial arts
 * }
 * }
 * not: Tambo, a Japanese word (田んぼ) for rice paddy

 * The "an article exists or could be written" clause doesn't apply here, since we used to have an entire article on the insult, but it was deleted on WP:NOT grounds (Wikipedia is not a translation dictionary). What we could do is include the template wiktionary, which does include the Japanese word (among many others). — Amcaja ( talk ) 01:41, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I see. That guideline explains a lot.

Problem is, how do you explain the Neko page? It is also a disambiguation page. Yet it has the Japanese meaning right on the top. Half of its links involve the said meaning. I seriously doubt that the term neko has been adoped into English or used by specialists. But then again, I'm not either English or American and could be wrong.

Checking the Wiktionary, I found that neko in Bosnian and Serbian mean "someone." Yet in the neko page, it only list the Japanese meaning. Isn't that against the guideline?

For baka, Wiktionary gives many more meanings from eleven different languages. However, I doubt that English users are exposed to Crimean, Kiput, or Tagalog meaning as much as the Japanese one. Since both neko and baka are both Japanese words people mostly learn from watching anime, they should get the same treatment.

Of course, it's against the guideline. But the last section of the guideline says "These guidelines are intended for consistency, but usefulness to the reader is the principal goal. So ignore these guidelines if you have a good reason." - DTRY 01:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Frankly speaking, I would be offended if the Baka page began like the Neko page, with a statement to the effect of, "Baka is the Japanese word for fool", thus placing that meaning as the "primary" one and relegating two ethnic groups to lesser status. But the real difference is that most of the meanings on the neko page relate to the Japanese term, whereas the entries on this page do not relate to Japanese (except for the slang term used by Allied forces in WWII). At any rate, I don't think neko should include the Japanese dictionary definition at all, as it violates WP:MOSDAB. And I'm not sure why otaku adopting a word from anime should make make much difference. We used to have an entry on kawaii, for example, but it was moved to the appropriate English name. Common Japanese words, as common as they are among otaku, are not common English words. — Amcaja ( talk ) 03:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't mean that the Japanese meaning of baka should have been put on top of the page the way neko is (and that would be ridiculous as well.) My point is, the Japanese meaning of baka is recognized by a lot of people (some are otakus, some are casual anime watchers) and should be noted somewhere in the page. Baka as in fool is not as prevalent as neko as in cat. Therefore it shouldn't be put on top as a primary meaning, but rather somewhere at the bottom - for the Japanese meaning has the same notability as the others.

I understand why you object my proposal. But I have to disagree with you on this:
 * "Common Japanese words, as common as they are among otaku, are not common English words."

Well, there are lots of articles spawned from anime and otaku culture. Moe (which also has its own entry in the Moe disambiguation page), meganekko (glasses girl), nekomusume (all entries in this disambiguation page are about catgirls), and many, many more. All of them have extensive articles. Therefore I see no harm in ignoring the disambiguation guideline a bit to put a word with an increasing notability in. - DTRY 16:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * :) You're saying this to the person who vehemently opposed the naming of the seiyu article and advocated it be moved to voice acting in Japan so as to not conflict with our Use English naming guideline. I'd recommend that most of the articles you mention be moved to English titles instead (glasses catgirl, for example). So, I still reject the addition of a foreign-language term to this page simply because anime fans (sorry if the term otaku was misleading, I was using it for both casual and diehard fans) may recognize it. Perhaps if we're at loggerhaeads, we should bring this up on the talk page of WP:MOSDAB? — Amcaja ( talk ) 22:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Content was replaced with a different article
Article on baka, the term, was replaced with baka, the disambiguation page, here. Just in case anyone was wondering where it went. —Tokek (talk) 16:23, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baka