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title: User:Elnoyola~enwiki


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Talk:Orpheus

The question of Orpheus's origin
Some ancient Greek authors, such as Strabo and Plutarch, write of Orpheus as having Thracian origins (through his father, Oeagrus). Although these traditional accounts have been uncritically accepted by some historians, they have been put into question by others, since it was only in the mid-/late 5th century that Orpheus acquired Thracian attributes. Additionally, as André Boulanger notes, "the most characteristic features of Orphism—consciousness of sin, need of purification and redemption, infernal punishments—have never been found among the Thracians". It has also been observed that Pausanias tells us that on Polygnotus' mural in the Cnidian Lesche at Delphi (ca. 460 BCE) Orpheus was represented as a Greek. This is also the case in early vase paintings, where his appearance is contrasted with that of the Thracian men, whom he enchants with his music. Indeed, the introduction of the worship of the Muses in the times of Archelaos, the genealogies featuring Apollo, Pierus and Methone, Orpheus's tomb in Leibethra and the importance of this gesture as a part of the king’s cultural policy, makes the hypothesis of the Pierian, and so Macedonian, roots of Orpheus, highly probable. The testimonies referring to his death, grave and heroic worship, for example early attestations to the existence of a real, or fictitious, gravestone epigram of Orpheus, point most strongly to his Macedonian links. Orpheus's links to Thrace seem to have been sporadic and not "ethnic": he was only "Thracian" when there was a need for him to be and when that part of his portrayal allowed a poet to express a meaning important for themselves and for their audiences. In contrast, when presented as the originator of the Greek musical tradition, he was not viewed as a foreign Thracian, but rather as a Greek Pierian. Jingiby (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

"Father of songs" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Father_of_songs&redirect=no Father of songs] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  - car chasm (talk) 00:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

"Father of song" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Father_of_song&redirect=no Father of song] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  - car chasm (talk) 00:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

"The father of songs" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_father_of_songs&redirect=no The father of songs] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  - car chasm (talk) 00:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

"The father of song" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_father_of_song&redirect=no The father of song] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  - car chasm (talk) 00:03, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Why is Orpheus mortal?
Orpheus is described as having Apollo and Calliope as parents, but is not a god. At most, he is described as a demigod, but is mainly presented as mortal. I'm just curious about this, and a bit confused, if anyone can explain, please do. Fysri (talk) 17:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * His father is usually said to be the Thracian king Oeagrus (see eg. Apollodorus, 1.3.2; Hyginus, Fabulae 14). I know of no source which says his father was Apollo. Paul August ☎ 18:00, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Looking further, Pindar, Pythian 4.176–177 does says:
 * And from Apollo the lyre-player came, the father of songs, much-praised Orpheus.
 * But having Orpheus "the father of songs" coming "from Apollo the lyre-player" could simply be poetic license, and note that elsewhere (Pindar fr. 128c Race (Threnos 3) 11–12) Pindar also has:
 * and the son of Oeagrus . ..
 * Orpheus of the golden lyre . ..
 * In any case, most (all?) other sources have Orpheus being the son of Oeagrus, see Frazer's [1.3.2 note 2 to Apollodorus 1.3.2:
 * That Orpheus was a son of Oeagrus by the Muse Calliope is affirmed also by Ap. Rhod., Argon. i.23ff.; Conon 45; Tzetzes, Scholiast on Lycophron 831; the author of Contest 314; Hyginus, Fab. 14; and Scriptores rerum mythicarum Latini. ed. G. H. Bode, i. pp. 26, 90 （First and Second Vatican Mythographers). ... That his father was Oeagrus is mentioned also by Plat. Sym.179d, Diod. 4.25.2, and Clement of Alexandria, Protrept. 7, p. 63, ed. Potter.
 * Paul August ☎ 15:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I've altered the phrasing to allow for the possibility that Pindar's intended meaning was not that Apollo was indeed Orpheus's father, and this also seems to be more in line with Gantz, p. 725, who only states that Pindar "appears" to call Orpheus Apollo's son. The main source for the parentage seems to be a scholium on this passage, citing Asclepiades; from the BNJ's translation:
 * And Asklepiades tells of Hymenaios, Ialemos and Orpheus the sons of Apollo and Kalliope in the sixth book of his Tragoidoumena.
 * Of this, Gantz, p. 725 states:
 * Whatever Pindar did mean in this case, Oiagros is clearly one early father, and Asklepiades gives us additional fifth-century authority for Apollo (and Kalliope) as the parents (12F6).
 * I believe these are the only sources for the Apollo parentage, however, and that all (or essentially all) other sources give him as the son of Oeagrus. – Michael Aurel (talk) 20:36, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * So it is possible that he could've been described as a child of Apollo simply because he was good at playing the lyre? Fysri (talk) 21:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I can't really comment as to why ancient authors may have chosen to make Apollo the father of Orpheus. The scholium mentioned above does state that Ammonius claims that Pindar didn't mean that Apollo was literally Orpheus's father:
 * But Ammonius, wishing for the story to be consistent…just as…they say that kings are born from Zeus, not because kings are born of Zeus, but because people consider ruling to be from Zeus, in this way he said he was a lyre-player from Apollo; for the god is the leader of the art of kithara-playing.
 * Gantz, p. 725 also notes that, according to Apollodorus, Oeagrus is the actual father, while Apollo is the "reputed" one. However, on Wikipedia, we just convey what the sources say; it isn't our place to speculate on why they say those things. – Michael Aurel (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, now I can have at least a bit of clarity on this. Fysri (talk) 15:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this Michael. Paul August ☎ 22:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking the time to answer, I really appreciate it. Fysri (talk) 21:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Orpheus


text:
Talk:Faroese language

Untitled
Moved from Village pump:

Faroese
On the Recent Changes page "faroese" is listed as a requested article...there is a Faroese language article. Is lower-case faroese something different, or is that just a typo? Adam Bishop 21:43, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * It was a typo, by me. I made it into a redirect. -- Notheruser 23:29, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)

read in article
In the article I read:

The letters ð and g, for example, have no phonemes attached to them.

This is definitely not correct. In the article eth I described the pronounciation of ð. Well, in most cases, it's not pronounced. Ok.

But: g is pronounced [g], [dj] (before single e, i, y and ey), [k] (before voiceless conconants), [d] (before n in the declension of past participles), as glide conconants [j], [v], [w] between vowels, and not pronounced between a, á, o, u and ø.

Pdn 03:40, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC) also did you really mean " conconants "? or "consonants" - I do not know all the linguistic terms Pdn 03:41, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

See: Lockwood (as in the article)

The letters ð and g, for example, have no phonemes attached to them is ofcourse wrong. The /g/ has it, but the /ð/ per definition not! It's about the definition of a phoneme. That it can be a glide between vowels, doesn't mean, that it has a real phonemic function. This is at least, what I have learned and can also be read at Thráinsson 2004, p. 56. :-) -- Arne List 20:14, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

This link

http://www.bokasolan.fo/leitabok.asp?bokid=3844

is dead Pdn 03:40, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I presume "settlers in the Irish Sea" is meant to mean settlers from round the shores of the Irish Sea, but I don't know enough to be confident and change it. "Settlers in the Irish Sea" sounds very odd, though. Soggy Norsemen. Hedgehog 08:45, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, this looks like something to correct. Soggy Norsemen indeed.--Mike 04:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Sound table
Recently, tables for the consonants and vowels of Faroese were added (by an unregistered IP address). There was no source given and many parts of the table were very inaccurate, e.g. is not a sound in Faroese but there is an explaination on Eth about why it is not totally useless. Also I don't believe that voicing is phonemic for all plosives except the velar ones where it is aspiration, etc. The vowel table might be better, but it uses nonstandard symbols and also misses the diphthongs which are very important in the language. Of course we should have a table about the sounds but it needs to be a better one. Stefán Ingi 13:49, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

dunna
I read in the article: As an example of this, consider the fact that Faroese has two words for duck: dunna (from Gaelic 'tunnag') for the domestic duck, and villdunna for the wild duck. Well, the etymology of dunna from Gaelic sounds interesting, but where have you read it? I mean, it comes from Old Norse dunna (mallard), which comes from Germanic *dusnō (also mallard). However, it can be, that both words have the same source, can't it? -- Arne List 20:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering that "vill" means "wild" in Norwegian, "villdunna" just seems to refer to a "wild dunna". I think this section needs fact-checking. If there was a completely different word for "Wild duck", like öndur/andur or something, the statement would make more sense. 惑乱 分からん 19:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, there are to words for duck in Faroese: ont and dunna. Both are almost synonymous, but dunna is marking more a domestic duck from villdunna, the mallard (to distinguish them) and ont is a duck in general (including all species of ducks). -- Arne List 17:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, that would make more sense. I'll rewrite it myself, soon, if someone else doesn't. Ill remark about the *dusnō etymology, though, does anyone know the etymology of ond in Norse/Germanic? I know that it's common Germanic, and quite plausibly PIE, but I don't know the exact evolution up to ont... 惑乱 分からん 00:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Phonetics
Where is all the phonetic part with the description of each letter? I strongly disagree on removing it. You can add all the others phonetic features, the consonant cluster thing etc., actually I find it great, but you shouldn't remove what there was before!
 * I am also not very happy about that, because now many examples and important exceptions are missing (and besides, my own quick reference for writing the wiktionary). -- Arne List 08:29, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry. I removed it with the intention of putting as much back as possible without being excessive but I haven't put everything back in.  I believe most of the important information is back in the article without needing to go letter-by-letter.  Some of the examples could certainly go in the phonology section.  I am a bit unsure about the actual vowel phonemes, which is why I have neglected to make a vowel chart.  All previous versions can be accessed so don't think you've lost your data or anything.  Here's my guess at the vowels of Faroese; you guys can verify if it's right, modify it if there are some errors, or laugh at me if it's completely wrong:

{| class="wikitable" ! colspan=2| Faroese Diphthongs ! IPA !! Examples ! !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  AEuSoes1 06:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Here are phonological processes that I've inferred for vowels. It's probably best if they are verified and given examples.

 * raises to before a velar nasal
 * becomes when unstressed
 * in some foreign words it becomes
 * becomes when unstressed
 * becomes when unstressed
 * becomes when unstressed (in foreign words)
 * becomes when followed by
 * becomes before postalveolar sounds
 * becomes before  and  before prenasalized postalveolars
 * becomes before postalveolars

I have considered and  as postalveolar in this list. I'm not really sure where to put this, but I'm sure it's important: AEuSoes1 07:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * the  in -ligur is actually, not

 * Another good idea is to create an article "Faroese Phonology" and move all the removed to it, include what was included in the main article, make just some quick notes in the article "Faroese Language" and make a link to "Faroese Phonology" -- Ciacchi

 * The removed material did not have a good layout for a phonology page. I've tried to put it in a format that is a good layout and I understand that there aren't as many examples right now.  It's still possible to reinclude examples, especially of exceptions to certain rules. But a phonology page is an excellent idea.AEuSoes1 00:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * The examples for diphtongs could be (some where forgotten):

{| class="wikitable" ! colspan=2| Faroese Diphthongs ! IPA !! Examples ! !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !
 * eitt (one n.)
 * ein (one m.,f.)
 * hey (hi)
 * dag (day)
 * ár (year)
 * roynd (examination)
 * hoyra (to hear)
 * sól (sun)
 * tú (you)
 * havn (harbour)
 * nøvn (names)
 * nevnd (committee)
 * mítt (my n.)
 * mín (my m.,f.)

-- Arne List 14:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * If one work hard, one can make a really good Faroese Phonology page: with the information there was before, it can be one of the best Phonology pages. Ciacchi 00:28, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Phrase book
I removed a very large section of the article that was dedicated more or less entirely to just instructing on how to use Faroese. Please note that this articles in Wikipedia are intended to inform on the languages in general, not write instructions on how to use them. I'm placing the section from the article below this post if anyone wishes to transwiki it to a Wikibook or something like it.

Peter Isotalo 11:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Numerals and Phrases
Many of the following examples are out of the German language guide by Richard Kölbl: Färöisch Wort für Wort. Bielefeld, 2004.

Hello and Goodbye

 * hey! [] - hi!
 * halló! [] - hello!
 * góðan morgun! [] - good morning!
 * góðan dag! [] - good day!
 * gott kvøld! [] - good evening!
 * vælgagnist! [] - blessed meal! (entering a room, where people are eating)
 * orsaka! [] - sorry!
 * eingin orsøk! [] - you're welcome!
 * tað er ílagið! [] - that's allright!
 * hvussu hevur tú tað [] - how are you
 * eg havi tað gott! [] - I'm fine!
 * skál! [] - cheers!
 * farvæl! [] - goodbye!
 * góða ferð! [] - have a good jouney!
 * vit síggjast! [] - see you!

Please and Thanks

 * ger so væl [] - now, do good
 * versogóð [] - please, here you have
 * ja takk [] - yes please
 * lat meg fáa hetta, takk [] - let me get this, please (e.g. in a shop, when you don't know the word for something, and just show on it)
 * takk fyri [] - thank you (standard phrase: "Thanks for (it)")
 * takk fyri seinast [] - thanks for last time
 * ... í kvøld [] - ... tonight
 * ... vitjanina [] - ... the visit
 * ... okkum/meg []/[] - ... us/me (thanks for inviting us/me)
 * ... hjálpina [] - ... the help
 * stóra tøkk - [] - many thanks
 * nei takk - no thanks

Do you speak English?
Note: In this section, the polite second person singular pronoun tygum is used instead of the common tú. Generally, tygum is used in formal situations and amongst strangers

 * tosa tygum enskt? [] - do you speak English?
 * eitt sindur [] - a little
 * eg skilji ikki [] - I don't understand
 * hvat siga tygum? [] - pardon?
 * ha? [] - eh?
 * when it is used on its own it usually means "What did you say?" or "Eh?"
 * when it is used at the end of a phrase it is usually in order to provoke a concurring response, as in "This is a beautiful vase, eh?"
 * hvat eitur ... á enskum/føroyskum? [] - what does ... mean in English/Faroese?
 * føroyskt er vakurt men torført at læra [] - Faroese is beautiful but difficult to learn

Small Talk
On this level, the familiar form tú is used. Be aware, to not address elderly persons with it, before they don't say tú to you.

 * hvussu eitur tú? [] - whatˈs your name?
 * eg eiti Sára [] - my name is Sarah
 * og tú? [] - and you?
 * eg eri Jón [] - I am John
 * vælkomin, Sára! [] - welcome Sarah! (f.)
 * vælkomin, Jón! [] - welcome John! (m.)
 * mær ein gleði [] - pleased to meet you ("glad for me")
 * stuttligt at ... [] - enjoyable, fun to ...
 * er tú onglendingur? [] - are you an Englishman/woman?
 * nei, eg eri úr Amerika [] - no, I am from America
 * er tú giftur/gift? []/[] - are you married? (m./f.)
 * eg eri stakur/støk []/[] - I am single (m./f.)
 * hetta er maður/kona/drongur/genta mín []/[]/[]/[] - this is (or, may i introduce) my husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend
 * hevur tú børn? [] - do you have children?
 * hvar býrt tú? [] - where do you live?
 * eg búgvi í/hjá ... []/[] - I live in/at ...
 * hevur tú verið leingi her? [] - have you been here long?
 * eg kom í gjár [] - I came yesterday
 * eg verði eina tvær vikur [] - I will stay about two weeks
 * Mær dámar væl Føroyar [] - I like the Faroes much

Agree and disagree

 * ja [] - yes
 * nei [] - no
 * jú! [] - sure!
 * kanska [] - maybe
 * vónandi [] - hopefully
 * sjálvandi [] - that's understood/naturally
 * tíbetur [] - fortunately
 * tíverri [] - unfortunately
 * júst [] - exactly
 * gamaní [] - that's fine (by me)
 * ikki sannheit? [] - isn't it (the truth)?
 * rætt hevur tú / tú hevur rætt [] - you are right
 * eg eri púra samdur/samd - []/[] - I totally agree (m./f.)
 * vera ósamdur/ósamd [] - to be in disagreement (m./f.)
 * tað haldi eg ikki - [] - I don't think so
 * heldur tú? [] - do you think so?
 * tað er fitt [] - it is cute, nice
 * tað er ringt [] - it is bad, difficult

Visit

 * set teg/tykkum! [] - sit down (sl./pl.)
 * vilt tú hava ein kaffimunn? [] - would you like a cup of coffee?
 * eg vil fegin hava te [] - I would like some tea
 * meira? [] - more?
 * tað smakkar væl [] - it tastes good
 * manga takk [] - thank you for the meal (when you leave the table after a meal)
 * vælgagnist [] - enjoy (your meal) (something the host says, before and/or after a meal)
 * eg má fara [] - I have to go
 * takk fyri meg [] - Thank you for the invitation (when taking your leave from the event)

Write an Email

 * skriva eitt teldubræv [] - write an Email
 * við telduposti [] - via Email
 * Kæra Sára! [] - Dear Sára!
 * Kæri Jón! [] - Dear Jón!
 * Góða Marjun! [] - Dear Marion!
 * Góði Petur! [] - Dear Peter!
 * takk fyri teldubrævið [] - thanks for the Email
 * orsaka at eg skrivi á enskum - excuse me for writing in English
 * men tú kanst svara á føroyskum - but you can answer in Faroese
 * vinarliga - sincerily yours
 * vit hoyrast - we hear from each other

You mean, this small section justifies a Wikibook? It is just an overview about standard phrases, everybody interested in the language, could need and print out with the whole article, when visiting the Faroes. Why should a language article not show some pieces of living language es example? I found this small reference helpful, but thanks, that it is not totally destroyed. :-/ -- Arne List 19:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Writing better Danish than the Danes..."proven"??
"It has further been proven that Faroese school children write better Danish than their Danish mates in the "flatland" (as the Faroese refer to the Danish)."

What? Proven how? Not only does this seem subjective, but it also reads as highly suspect. Can the author of this snippet please provide a source?
 * Would you be so kind, to sign your contributions with --~ ? :-) I read it somewhere in a scientific article, but can not remember the source - however, I should ask Faroese linguists about that fact, to find the source. Why this is "highly suspect" ist highly suspect to me. It sounds very plausible, because, the Danes do not pronounce their language, as it is written. The Faroese pronounce it more, as it is written (thus more clear for Non-Danes) and thus have it easier to write it, after they speak it loud and learn the language in that way. There were examinations among school children, which proved this theory. -- Arne List 16:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I found one source (not the entire "evidence", but this will hopefully follow). Faroese linguist Jógvan í Lon Jacobsen (he is e.g. co-author of "Faroese : An Overview and Reference Grammar", 2004) writes:

Den skandinaviske udtale har også den pædagogiske fordel, at man lærer meget bedre dansk retskrivning, og det er en kendsgerning, at mange færinger er meget dygtige til at skrive dansk. Moderne dansk udtale ligger unægtelig meget langt fra skrevet dansk. Jeg mener dog ikke, at man skal 'gå tilbage' til den skandinaviske udtale af dansk, men lærerne bør gøre eleverne opmærksomme på den og understrege den store praktiske betydning den kan have i kommunikationen med skandinaver inklusive danskere.

http://inet.dpb.dpu.dk/infodok/sprogforum/spr19/lon.html

Translated from Danish into English:

The Scandinavian pronounciation has the pedagocial advantage, that one learns much better Danish orthography, and it is a fact, that many Faroese are much competent in writing Danish. I hold though not, that one should 'go back' to the Scandinavian pronounciation of Danish, but the teachers should point that out to the pupils and underline the great practical meaning, it can have in the communication with Scandinavians, included Danes.

-- Arne List 16:44, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

 * You forgot this sentence, so for completeness' sake:

Moderne dansk udtale ligger unægtelig meget langt fra skrevet dansk.

Modern Danish pronunciation is undoubtedly very far from written Danish.

惑乱 分からん 22:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The quoted text seems to be saying that it can be useful to know Faroese if you want to understand how to spell various Danish words.

 * Not at all. If you have Faroese as mother tongue and learn the "Scandinavian pronounciation" of Danish (wich is easier), you'll have it easier to write correct Danish.

 * It certainly does not say that "it has been proven" that Faroese school children spell Danish better than Danish children. Stefán Ingi 01:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

 * No, that's right. I said it above, that this was not the source for that, but describing some well-known phenomen, however. -- Arne List 13:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm going to go ahead and make this paragraph a tad more accurate. I (the person who started this thread) originally thought that by "writing", factors such as style were meant, whereas now that we have the source, it's apparent that the only thing that was meant was spelling. I also don't see from this source where it's apparent that they spell Danish "better", so I'm going to change it to what the source says, namely: "meget dygtige". I’d still like to know who the Danish author is... redscarf 06:03, 02 April 2006 (UTC)

From the article
"However, Faroese didn't become the common language in the media and advertising until the 1980s."

Where did this come from? Faroese radio began in 1957, and has always broadcast in Faroese. The newspapers started writing in Faroese at about the same time. So, where did this come from? Mulder1982 04:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Dimma was still writing some articles in Danish in the 80ies, didn't it? -- Arne List 13:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Tingkrossur, a Faroese newspaper which started in the year 1900 or somewhere in that time line wrote in Faroese. While Dimmalætting wrote in danish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fimbulsvetur (talk • contribs) 13:55, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Huh?
From the article:

.The former colonial language Danish has still more importance than in Iceland.

This sentence definitely contains a mistake, but as it's not clear to me what the author meant, I'm not sure how to correct it. Funnyhat 01:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Here comes a wild guess: whoever wrote this says that Danish (the language of those who colonised the Faroes and Iceland) is, today, more important in the Faroes than it is in Iceland. we could correct this in some way like "Today, Danish is more important in the Faroes than in Iceland, although both countries were Danish colonies". Of course, someone should correct this sentence of mine, because I'm not whether the Faroes are or not colonies of Denmark, or if there is any other burocratic political thing between the two, or if the Faroes are an actual country...       Ciacchi 02:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Unvoiced l in 'hjálpa'?
The article has 'hjálpa' as [ˈjɔlpa]. Shouldn't the 'l' be unvoiced? Haukur 11:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

 * According to Thráinsson et al, it should. In SAMPA, [j O l_0 p a]. (Or maybe [t S O l_0 p a]?) // Jens Persson (130.242.128.85 20:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC))

 * There is an unvoiced [l] that doesn't really sound like an l. In my opinion it's closer to X-SAMPA [K], so if someone were to ask me to transliterate 'hjálpa' into X-SAMPA I'd do it like this: ["jOK:pa]. Mulder1982 (talk) 23:12, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Aspirated plosives
To me it seems more probable that the contrast in the plosives is between aspirated and unaspirated rather than voiced and unvoiced. A source for this is e.g. Lenition and Contrast by Naomi Gurevich, p.97, ISBN 0415970997, citing personal communication with Marius Staksberg, secretary of the Faroese language committee. Stefán Ingi 20:31, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Mutual intelligibility
From the article:

''Spoken Faroese is perhaps best understood by the speakers of nynorsk dialects in Western Norway (where most of the Viking settlers seem to have come from). Icelandic native speakers would not understand spoken Faroese without some training, and Danish speakers have almost no chance of understanding it without extensive studies.''

I disagree with this. Untrained Norwegians don't understand more than the odd word of spoken Faroese, an Icelandic speaker would understand a lot more than a speaker of even the most conservative Norwegian dialects. No, I have no documentation, but I am Norwegian, I write nynorsk, and I have some knowledge of Faroese, Icelandic and Old Norse. Also, there is no such thing as a "nynorsk" dialect, nynorsk is an official Norwegian language based on dialects. Devanatha 21:19, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Agree completely. People are really overestimating the closeness between Norwegian (and in particular Nynorsk writing and reading) and Faroese. The idea that Norwegians are able to understand Faroese so much more easily than Danes or Swedes is absurd. I am guessing there is no documentation of this because nobody would even think it'd need to be documented, just assumed. Some romantic connection between Western Norway and the Faroes or Iceland needs to be abandoned.

 * I agree with the statement. Why? Mainlky because of phonology. Western Norwegian and Faroese are closer than Icelandic and Faroese witrh respect to phonology. Faroese has more novations in common with Western Norwegian than with Icelandic. The most important one is of course the softening of g and k in front of a "soft" vowel. Only grammatically Faroese is closer to Icelandic than Western Norwegian, but mutual intelligibility has not much to do with grammatical endings. Phonology and vocabulary are much more important, especially the former.
 * Jens Persson (213.67.64.22 19:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC))

Trilled R
I've been listening to Týr lately and I noticed that the singer doesn't pronunciate retroflex as it would be expected; instead, they pronunciate a clearly trilled [r]. However, he pronounces "sterkum" as or something like that, with a voiceless retroflex thingy, that is (or should be) due to the retroflection of the R. I know that a folk metal band is not really the best way of drawing linguistical conclusions, but I found it odd anyway. Is this normal in some part of the Faroes or are they just strange? Ciacchi 16:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit baffled by the use of the symbol for the Fa(e)roese [r] phone. Isn't the Fa(e)roese phone nearly always trilled, in which case [r] would be the right symbol, right? The inverted-r symbol is usually used to refer to a semivowel r as in most varieties of English or postvocalically in some Dutch dialects. It seems to me the inverted-r in this article should be replaced universally with [r]. 71.227.161.172 (talk) 21:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * In singing r is often trilled but in normal spoken language it usually isn't. And retroflex [ʂ] is certainly perfectly normal. Haukur (talk) 00:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Ciacchi, r in Faroese is pronounced in a very particular way when joined with k or t as in "sterkum", "verk", "tú ert" and "bert". In the song by Týr called "Ormurin Langi" the singer prounces the word "sterkum" correctly. When telling non-Faroese speakers how to say one of these words, I've found that they never pronounce it correctly. They reduce the sound of rk and rt to the English sh which is incorrect. In the cases mentioned above the r is not the usual r as in "regluliga" or "greitt". And: neither of these are of the "rolling" kind common in Swedish and Spanish, except when putting extra emphasis on the word containing the r e.g. when singing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravnurin (talk • contribs) 13:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd watch out, Tyr sing some songs in Gøtu-Dankst too, so make sure it's Faroese that you're listening to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciaran12 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Very, very few songs are in Gøtu-Danskt—there are probably more in English even. The band provides lyrics sheets in many releases and clearly denotes which language they're using. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 18:53, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

accented letters
how on the faroese keyboard do they type accented letters? ie: Á, Í, Ó, Ú, Ý. ...Patrick (talk, contributions) 23:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Just take a look at the keyboard in the article, the key to the upper right left to the backspace key. Here is a link:
 * Jens Persson (213.67.64.22 19:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC))

 * thanks ...Patrick (talk, contributions) 23:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

How many speakers?
48000 in the body of the article, 60000-80000 in the infobox. Anyone know which is right? The Islands are about 48000, but is there a significant expatriate speaker community? Mainland Denmark? PRB 00:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

 * According to the article Faroese people, there are some 25,000 faroese people living in other parts of the Nordic countries. This makes at least 70,000 speakers (assuming all faroese people can speak Faroese). I suggest we confine the number of speakersto the interval 70,000-80,000 based on the (references within the) article Faroese people.
 * Jens Persson (213.67.64.22 22:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC))

 * In the Faroes alone there are around 48.000 speakers. Dispite being such a small country I've often heard the saying that Faroese people are described as being nomads. Because we are, and have always been, a fishing nation Faroese people can be found in many countries around the world. I don't have any estimates (I don't know of any studies either) but I know there are quite a lot of Faroese people—perhaps especially—in the scandinavian countries, Greenland and Iceland, as well as spread out in various other countries. I'd say they could very well count in around 20.000, so around 70.000 (or 60-80.000) sounds like a good estimate.
 * SverriMO 06:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

fyrra i
The vowel table has two letters listed with this name:  and <ì>. Which one is it? Makerowner 22:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite
This article needs to be completely rewritten from the start. The overall personal tone is inappropriate for an encyclopedia, and vast portions of the article read as if they are some kind of instruction manual or how-to guide. For example:
 * Unfortunately, the English-Faroese and Faroese-English dictionaries are sold out.

It feels as if the article was written by a non-English native speaker, which I fear it was, and unfortunately this has rubbed off on the article. I have just branched off the grammar section into its own article, which suffers from the same problems. The phonology section should also be broken off after it has been cleaned up, as it is lengthier than most of the equivalent sections of other language articles. Perhaps after all of this the article could do with some expansion. Max Naylor (talk) 12:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

diphthongs
Are the unusual diphthongs rising or falling? That is, where should we put the < ̯> diacritic, and how does that fit the length diacritic? kwami (talk) 20:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the latter part of the diphthong is usually the non-syllabic part. So (in X-SAMPA) they'd be: /Ei_^/, /ai_^/, /Oa_^/ etc. At least that's how I understand it from a native speaker's POV. Mulder1982 (talk) 21:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible rewrite of Faroese phonology section
I'm currently reading Einar Haugen's 1982 book Scandinavian Language Structures, where he mentions the phonologies, morphologies, and syntaxes of the insular and continental Scandinavian languages, including Faroese, and if a Harvard professor is to be believed, some aspects of the phonology section are wrong. In addition, some of the areas of the phonology section should really belong with the "Faroese alphabet" section. Thus, I'm probably going to attempt some sort of rewrite of the Faroese phonology section (in anticipation of it getting its own article à la Icelandic phonology), and probably touch up the "Faroese grammar" article a bit. --Daniel Blanchette (talk) 10:04, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Before I create the Faroese phonology section, I will be making a few changes to the consonant chart, based on Haugen 1982:

 * The stop consonants currently listed as [p], [b], [t], [d], [k], [g] will be replaced with [pʰ], [p], [tʰ], [t], [kʰ], [k] - as is Icelandic, though Haugen himself uses [pʰ], [b̥], [tʰ], [d̥], [kʰ], [ɡ̊].
 * The affricates currently listed as [tʃ] and [dʒ] will also be replaced with [tʃʰ] and [tʃ], again though Haugen uses [tʃʰ] and [d̥ʒ].

In both cases, this is because Faroese has an aspiration contrast like Icelandic. Is everyone all right with this? --Daniel Blanchette (talk) 04:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes, since this is correct. However, you should note, that there are dialects, which do show some degree of voicing. I'm not an expert on this nor have I studied Faroese in university, but being a native Faroese speaker, these differences are quite audible, even though I still, even after having learned a language which disguishes voice, have a hard time knowing when the difference is voicing or aspiration. Do note, that Faroese does have a single voiced consonant: /v/. I don't know the book in particular. I imagine though, that it touches this subject. But yes, by all means, go right ahead. :) Mulder1982 (talk) 23:07, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

50 not 5
From the page |Faroese Tutorial written by Johan Petur Dam I confirm that the series should be 30,40,50,60 rather than 30,40,5,60. :-)

50 Hálvtrýss/Fimmti holv-truysh/fimm-tee

Looks like it went in wrong Initial version of Faroese numbers

Lent (talk) 16:59, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

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Welsh
There is a Welsh Wikipedia article on Faroese: Ffaröeg. However, it has only one sentence, does not cite any sources, and has three red links, including to two for category pages. I strongly suggest improving said article. Btw, Welsh = Cymraeg.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 22:17, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

72,000 or 76,000 Faroe Islanders?
The article states that there are 72,000 Faroe Islanders, 53,000 of which live in the Faroe islands, and 23,000 of which live elsewhere. These numbers do not add up to 76,000, not 72,000. Which numbers are correct? 172.58.44.172 (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Irish Influence on Faroese
On this passage: "As a result, the Irish language has had some influence on both Faroese and Icelandic."

This is a very contested (if not outright false) claim, although popular among amateur linguists.

For those that read Icelandic I would recommend Eiríkur Rögnvaldsons article on a recent book on the debate: https://uni.hi.is/eirikur/2022/12/09/er-saegur-geliskra-tokuorda-i-islensku/

To boil the article down: There may well have been a cultural impact of Irish and Celtic settlers in Iceland, but there is no evidence of a linguistic impact.

Is this not also true for Faroese? Would be helpful to have a Faroese linguist chime in Ástmögur Þjóðarinnar (talk) 10:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Faroese language


text:
Cirque (disambiguation)

Cirque may refer to:

 * Cirque, an amphitheatre-like valley head
 * Cirque (album), a 2000 album by Biosphere
 * Cirque Corporation, a Salt Lake City, Utah-based company which developed and commercialized the first successful capacitive touchpad
 * Cirque du Soleil, a Canadian entertainment company
 * Contemporary circus (nouveau cirque), a genre of performing art developed in the later 20th century
 * Le Cirque, 1891 painting by Georges Seurat

title: Cirque (disambiguation)