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Bull shark

The bull shark (Carcharhinus leucas), also known as the Zambezi shark (informally zambi) in Africa and Lake Nicaragua shark in Nicaragua, is a species of requiem shark commonly found worldwide in warm, shallow waters along coasts and in rivers. It is known for its aggressive nature, and presence mainly in warm, shallow brackish and freshwater systems including estuaries and (usually) lower reaches of rivers. This aggressive nature is a reason for its population being listed as vulnerable on the IUCN Red List. Shark-culling occurs near beaches to protect beachgoers, which is one of the causes of bull shark populations continuing to decrease.

Bull sharks are euryhaline and can thrive in both salt and fresh water. They are known to travel far up rivers, and have been known to travel up the Mississippi River as far as Alton, Illinois, about 700 mi from the ocean, but few freshwater interactions with humans have been recorded. Larger-sized bull sharks are probably responsible for the majority of nearshore shark attacks, including many incidents of shark bites attributed to other species.

Unlike the river sharks of the genus Glyphis, bull sharks are not true freshwater sharks, despite their ability to survive in freshwater habitats.

This shark appears in the image of the 2000 colones bill from Costa Rica.

Etymology
The name "bull shark" comes from the shark's stocky shape, broad, flat snout, and aggressive, unpredictable behavior. In India, the bull shark may be confused with the Sundarbans or Ganges shark. In Africa, it is also commonly called the Zambezi River shark, or just "zambi".

Its wide range and diverse habitats result in many other local names, including Ganges River shark, Fitzroy Creek whaler, van Rooyen's shark, Lake Nicaragua shark, river shark, freshwater whaler, estuary whaler, Swan River whaler, cub shark, and shovelnose shark.

Evolution
Some of the bull shark's closest living relatives do not have the capabilities of osmoregulation. Its genus, Carcharhinus, also includes the sandbar shark, which is not capable of osmoregulation.

The bull shark shares numerous similarities with river sharks of the genus Glyphis, and other species in the genus Carcharhinus, but its phylogeny has not been cleared yet.

Anatomy and appearance
Bull sharks are large and stout, with females being larger than males. The bull shark can be up to 81 cm in length at birth. Adult female bull sharks average 2.4 m long and typically weigh 130 kg, whereas the slightly smaller adult male averages 2.25 m and 95 kg. While a maximum size of 3.5 m is commonly reported, a single record exists of a female specimen of exactly 4.0 m. A 3.25 m long pregnant individual reached 450 kg. The maximum weight can be over 600 kg, ranking it among the largest of the requiem sharks. Bull sharks are wider and heavier than other requiem sharks of comparable length, and are grey on top and white below. The second dorsal fin is smaller than the first. The bull shark's caudal fin is longer and lower than that of the larger sharks, and it has a small snout, and lacks an interdorsal ridge.

Bull sharks have a bite force up to 5914 N, weight for weight the highest among all investigated cartilaginous fishes.

Exceptional specimens
In early June 2012, off the coast of the Florida Keys near the western part of the Atlantic Ocean, a female believed to measure at least 8 ft and 800 - 850 lbs was caught by members of the R.J. Dunlap Marine Conservation Program. In the Arabian Sea, off the coast of Fujairah in the United Arab Emirates, a pregnant shark weighing 347.8 kg and measuring 3 m long was caught in February 2019, followed by another specimen weighing about 350 kg and measuring about the same in length, in January 2020. Unconfirmed reports suggest that the very largest, exceptional specimens can possibly weigh up to 900 kg.

Distribution and habitat
The bull shark is commonly found worldwide in coastal areas of warm oceans, in rivers and lakes, and occasionally salt and freshwater streams if they are deep enough. It is found to a depth of 150 m, but does not usually swim deeper than 30 m. In the Atlantic, it is found from Massachusetts to southern Brazil, and from Morocco to Angola.

Populations of bull sharks are also found in several major rivers, with more than 500 bull sharks thought to be living in the Brisbane River. One was reportedly seen swimming the flooded streets of Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, during the 2010–11 Queensland floods. Several were sighted in one of the main streets of Goodna, Queensland, shortly after the peak of the January 2011, floods. A large bull shark was caught in the canals of Scarborough, just north of Brisbane within Moreton Bay. Still greater numbers are in the canals of the Gold Coast, Queensland. In the warmer months of the year, bull sharks frequent Sydney Harbour. In the Pacific Ocean, it can be found from Baja California to Ecuador.

The bull shark has traveled 4000 km up the Amazon River to Iquitos in Peru and north Bolivia. It also lives in freshwater Lake Nicaragua, in the Ganges and Brahmaputra Rivers of West Bengal, and Assam in Eastern India and adjoining Bangladesh. It can live in water with a high salt content as in St. Lucia Estuary in South Africa. Bull sharks have been recorded in the Tigris River since at least 1924 as far upriver as Baghdad, and has been rumored to also inhabit the Cahora Bassa lake upstream of the Zambezi. The species has a distinct preference for warm currents.

After Hurricane Katrina, many bull sharks were sighted in Lake Pontchartrain. In July 2023 some local fishermen in the Atchafalaya River have reported increasing numbers. Bull sharks have occasionally gone as far upstream in the Mississippi River as Alton, Illinois. Bull sharks have also been found in the Potomac River in Maryland. A golf course lake at Carbrook, Logan City, Queensland, Australia is the home to several bull sharks. They were trapped following a flood of the Logan and Albert Rivers in 1996. The golf course has capitalized on the novelty and now hosts a monthly tournament called the "Shark Lake Challenge".

Freshwater tolerance
The bull shark is the best known of 43 species of elasmobranch, across 10 genera and four families, to have been reported in fresh and/or brackish water. Other species that enter rivers include the stingrays (Dasyatidae, Potamotrygonidae and others) and sawfish (Pristidae). Some skates (Rajidae), smooth dogfishes (Triakidae), and sandbar sharks (Carcharhinus plumbeus) regularly enter estuaries.

The bull shark is diadromous, meaning they can swim between salt and fresh water with ease, as they are euryhaline fish—able to quickly adapt to a wide range of salinities. Thus, the bull shark is one of the few cartilaginous fishes that have been reported in freshwater systems. Many of the euryhaline fish are bony fishes, such as salmon or tilapia, and are not closely related to bull sharks. Evolutionary assumptions can be made to help explain this sort of evolutionary disconnect, with one being that the bull shark experienced a population bottleneck during the last ice age. This bottleneck may have separated the bull shark from the rest of the Elasmobranchii subclass and favored the genes for an osmoregulatory system.

Elasmobranchs' ability to enter fresh water is limited because their blood is normally at least as salty (in terms of osmotic strength) as seawater through the accumulation of urea and trimethylamine oxide, but bull sharks living in fresh water show a significantly reduced concentration of urea within their blood. Despite this, the solute composition (i.e. osmolarity) of a bull shark in fresh water is still much higher than that of the external environment. This results in a large influx of water across the gills due to osmosis and loss of sodium and chloride from the shark's body. However, bull sharks in fresh water possess several organs with which to maintain appropriate salt and water balance; these are the rectal gland, kidneys, liver, and gills. All elasmobranchs have a rectal gland which functions in the excretion of excess salts accumulated as a consequence of living in seawater. Bull sharks in freshwater environments decrease the salt-excretory activity of the rectal gland, thereby conserving sodium and chloride. The kidneys produce large amounts of dilute urine, but also play an important role in the active reabsorption of solutes into the blood. The gills of bull sharks are likely to be involved in the uptake of sodium and chloride from the surrounding fresh water, whereas urea is produced in the liver as required with changes in environmental salinity. Recent work also shows that the differences in density of fresh water to that of marine waters result in significantly greater negative buoyancies in sharks occupying fresh water, resulting in increasing costs of living in fresh water. Bull sharks caught in freshwater have subsequently been shown to have lower liver densities than sharks living in marine waters. This may reduce the added cost of greater negative buoyancy.

Bull sharks are able to regulate themselves to live in either fresh or salt water. It can live in fresh water for its entire life, but this does not happen, mostly due to the reproductive needs of the shark. Young bull sharks leave the brackish water in which they are born and move out into the sea to breed. While is theoretically possible for bull sharks to live purely in fresh water, experiments conducted on bull sharks found that they died within four years. The stomach was opened and all that was found were two small, unidentifiable fishes. The cause of death could have been starvation since the primary food source for bull sharks resides in salt water.

In a research experiment, the bull sharks were found to be at the mouth of an estuary for the majority of the time. They stayed at the mouth of the river independent of the salinity of the water. The driving factor for a bull shark to be in fresh or salt water, however, is its age; as the bull shark ages, its tolerance for very low or high salinity increases. The majority of the newborn or very young bull sharks were found in the freshwater area, whereas the much older bull sharks were found to be in the saltwater areas, as they had developed a much better tolerance for the salinity. Reproduction is one of the reasons why adult bull sharks travel into the river—it is thought to be a physiological strategy to improve juvenile survival and a way to increase overall fitness of bull sharks. The young are not born with a high tolerance for high salinity, so they are born in fresh water and stay there until they are able to travel out.

Initially, scientists thought the sharks in Lake Nicaragua belonged to an endemic species, the Lake Nicaragua shark (Carcharhinus nicaraguensis). In 1961, following specimen comparisons, taxonomists synonymized them. Bull sharks tagged inside the lake have later been caught in the open ocean (and vice versa), with some taking as few as seven to 11 days to complete the journey.

A study of six bull sharks confined to a stagnant golf course lake in Brisbane, Australia, from 1996 to 2013 uncovered their adaptability to low-salinity environments, marking the longest recorded residency for the species under such conditions, and demonstrating their ability to live indefinitely in low-salinity aquatic environments.

Diet
The bull shark is a marine apex predator, capable of taking a variety of prey. The bull shark's diet consists mainly of bony fish and small sharks, including other bull sharks, and stingrays. Their diet can also include turtles, birds, dolphins, terrestrial mammals, crustaceans, and echinoderms. They hunt in murky waters where it is harder for the prey to see the shark coming. Bull sharks have been known to use the bump-and-bite technique to attack their prey. After the first initial contact, they continue to bite and tackle prey until the prey is unable to flee.

The bull shark is a solitary hunter, though may briefly pair with another bull shark to make hunting and tricking prey easier.

Sharks are opportunistic feeders, and the bull shark is no exception to this, as it is part of the Carcharhinus family of sharks. Normally, sharks eat in short bursts, and when food is scarce, sharks digest for a much longer period of time in order to avoid starvation. As part of their survival mechanism, bull sharks will regurgitate the food in their stomachs in order to escape from a predator. This is a distraction tactic; if the predator moves to eat the regurgitated food the bull shark can use the opportunity to escape.

Reproduction
Bull sharks mate during late summer and early autumn, often in bays and estuaries. After gestating for 12 months, a bull shark may give birth to 1 to 13 live young.

They are viviparous, born live and free-swimming. The young are about 70 cm at birth. The bull shark does not rear its young; the young bull sharks are born into flat, protected areas. Coastal lagoons, river mouths, and other low-salinity estuaries are common nursery habitats.

The male bull shark is able to begin reproducing around the age of 15 years while the female cannot begin reproducing until the age of 18 years. The size of a fully matured female bull shark to produce viable eggs for fertilization seems to be 175 cm to 235 cm. The courting routine between bull sharks has not been observed in detail as of yet. The male likely bites the female on the tail until she can turn upside down and the male can copulate at that point. Mature females commonly have scratches from the mating process.

Interactions with humans
Since bull sharks often dwell in very shallow waters, are found in many types of habitats, are territorial by nature, and have no tolerance for provocation, they may be more dangerous to humans than any other species of shark. Bull sharks are one of the three shark species (along with the tiger shark and great white shark) most likely to bite humans.

One or several bull sharks may have been responsible for the Jersey Shore shark attacks of 1916, which were the inspiration for Peter Benchley's novel Jaws. The speculation that bull sharks may have been responsible is based on two fatal bites occurring in brackish and fresh water.

Bull sharks have attacked swimmers around the Sydney Harbour inlets. In India, bull sharks swim up the Ganges, Bramaputra, Mahanadi, and other Indian rivers and have bitten bathers. Many of these bite incidents were attributed to the Ganges shark, Glyphis gangeticus, a critically endangered river shark species, although the sand tiger shark was also blamed during the 1960s and 1970s.

Bull sharks have also attacked humans off the coast of Florida.

Visual cues
Behavioral studies have confirmed that sharks can take visual cues to discriminate between different objects. The bull shark is able to discriminate between colors of mesh netting that is present underwater. It was found that bull sharks tended to avoid mesh netting of bright colors rather than colors that blended in with the water. Bright yellow mesh netting was found to be easily avoided when it was placed in the path of the bull shark. This was found to be the reason that sharks are attracted to bright yellow survival gear rather than ones that were painted black.

Energy conservation
In 2008, researchers tagged and recorded the movements of young bull sharks in the Caloosahatchee River estuary. They were testing to find out what determined the movement of the young bull sharks. It was found that the young bull sharks synchronously moved downriver when the environmental conditions changed. This large movement of young bull sharks were found to be moving as a response rather than other external factors such as predators. The movement was found to be directly related to the bull shark conserving energy for itself. One way the bull shark is able to conserve energy is that when the tidal flow changes, the bull shark uses the tidal flow in order to conserve energy as it moves downriver. Another way for the bull shark to conserve energy is to decrease the amount of energy needed to osmoregulate the surrounding environment.

Ecology
Humans are the biggest threat to bull sharks. Larger sharks, such as the tiger shark and great white shark, may attack them, but typically only target juveniles. Crocodiles may be a threat to bull sharks in rivers. Saltwater crocodiles have been observed preying on bull sharks in the rivers and estuaries of Northern Australia, and a Nile crocodile was reportedly sighted consuming a bull shark in South Africa.

Conservation
The bull shark is listed as a vulnerable species on the IUCN Red List and the population is currently reported as decreasing. Despite their status, the species isn't named as a protected species. Threats to the bull shark are numerous, such as getting caught in fishing nets, overfishing for their oil, skin, and meat, pollution to their habitat, and more. In many areas of the world, including Australia and South Africa, there are shark-culling measures around beaches to prevent attacks on beach-goers. Researchers tried to fix the problem of sharks getting too close to land by testing out a device called the SharkSafe Barrier™. This barrier used magnetic and visual stimuli, which utilized rows of piping to create a continuous magnetic field to deter the sharks. However, researchers concluded that the technology needs to be improved upon and tested further before it can be implemented as a reliable safety measure. Other research is being conducted to come up with conservation solutions for the bull sharks. One example is The Nature Conservancy satellite tagging sharks to track their migration and find their habitats in order to guide what areas require further protection projects.

title: Bull shark


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Ploceidae

Ploceidae is a family of small passerine birds, many of which are called weavers, weaverbirds, weaver finches, or bishops. These names come from the nests of intricately woven vegetation created by birds in this family. In most recent classifications, the Ploceidae are a clade that excludes some birds that have historically been placed in the family, such as some of the sparrows, but which includes the monotypic subfamily Amblyospizinae. The family is believed to have originated in the mid-Miocene. All birds of the Ploceidae are native to the Old World, most in Africa south of the Sahara, though a few live in tropical areas of Asia. A few species have been introduced outside their native range.

Taxonomy and systematics
The family Ploceidae was introduced (as Ploceïdes) by Swedish zoologist Carl Jakob Sundevall in 1836. Phylogenetic studies have shown that the family is sister to a clade containing the families Viduidae and Estrildidae Their common ancestor lived in the middle Miocene around 18 million years ago.

A 2017 molecular phylogenetic study by Thilina de Silva and collaborators, as well as an expanded study by the same group published in 2019 have indicated that the genus Ploceus as currently defined is polyphyletic. A cladogram based on these results is shown below.

Genera
The family includes 15 genera with a total of 122 species. For more detail, see list of Ploceidae species.

Description
The males of many species in this family are brightly coloured, usually in red or yellow and black. Some species show variation in colour only in the breeding season. These are seed-eating birds with rounded conical bills.

Distribution and habitat
The weaverbird colonies may be found close to bodies of water.

Behaviour and ecology
Weavers are named for their elaborately woven nests. The nests vary in size, shape, material used, and construction techniques from species to species. Materials used for building nests include fine leaf fibers, grass, and twigs. Many species weave very fine nests using thin strands of leaf fiber, though some, like the buffalo-weavers, form massive untidy stick nests in their colonies, which may have spherical woven nests within. The sociable weavers of Africa build apartment-house nests, in which 100 to 300 pairs have separate flask-shaped chambers entered by tubes at the bottom. The sparrow weavers live in family units that employ cooperative breeding. Most species weave nests that have narrow entrances, facing downward.

Many weaver species are gregarious and breed colonially. The birds build their nests together for protection, often several to a branch. Usually the male birds weave the nests and use them as a form of display to lure prospective females.

Relationship to humans
They sometimes cause crop damage, notably the red-billed quelea, reputed to be the world's most numerous bird.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ploceidae


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Talk:Drag queen

Section on children contains no sources of differing vantage point, amounts to editorializing.
There needs to be an addition for the viewpoint against things like Drag Story Time, etc. to go along with the sources that are proponents. The current status of the section is merely an editorial quote via one person.

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-01
— Assignment last updated by ACHorwitz (talk) 16:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Graphic Design History
— Assignment last updated by Ktrachsel01 (talk) 01:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Editorial change
Since we are apparently a society of full inclusion, no matter what, I would like to ask that the term cisgender be removed from the article and replaced with heterosexual or straight as I find the above term non inclusive of the rights of heterosexual people. Thank you. 31.126.66.175 (talk) 16:15, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Heterosexual refers to sexual orientation, whereas cisgender refers to gender identity, i.e., same gender identity as your assigned gender at birth. The article should not be updated with the proposed change because these words have different meanings, and we need to follow common usage. Hist9600 (talk) 13:04, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Etymology
This is most likely a red herring, but in case anyone feels like investigating further: one of the words for 'a costume' or 'an outfit' in Norwegian, Danish and Swedish is
 * Norwegian: en drakt
 * Danish: en dragt
 * Swedish: en dräkt

—suggesting a connection with being 'in costume'.

(Links go to dictionary entries in those languages.)

In German, I think it's Tracht. Not sure about Dutch.

It's perfectly possible,though, that being in drag is unrelated to these. The OED don't mention anything along those lines, for example. (When learning Norwegian, I assumed the words were related, and remembered drakt that way.) Musiconeologist (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Interesting theory. Needs a reliable source here. Scottish? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 07:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Transmen
You should point out that trans men can also be drag queens (and not only drag kings) as a performance like the famous Gottmik. 2A01:E0A:5DA:C520:C076:CBBE:592B:1EBF (talk) 15:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

"History of drag"
Isn't it obvouls that this whole section belongs in the arcticle Drag (entertainment), not here? SergeWoodzing (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Rollback
I rolled back 2 edits where an image had been added here as a separate section, but with no explaiation or request, SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

A need to rethink how we write on gender impersonation and drag.
@ I just created a quick article on Female impersonation (needs expanding) which makes an important separation from drag (entertainment), although it might be better to move it to gender impersonation. In general, I think we need to do a better job differentiating between gender impersonation and drag because they aren't exactly the same thing. This book makes a compelling distinction where drag is defined as different than female impersonation because of its specifically queer identity: We need to recognize that much of what is being presented here as "drag history" isn't exactly drag history but the history of female impersonation which for the majority of history looked nothing like the drag queens of LGBTQ culture. For one thing, female impersonators were predominantly cisgender heterosexual men (at least as far as the public knew) through most of history, and they were taking on female characters in plays and comedy sketches performed for heteronormative audiences as opposed to adopting/developing a drag persona and identity for a queer audience. They also were predominantly performing in works with little to no queer subtext, and in fact there was a concerted effort to deliberately dissociate from queer identity in most cases. Minstrel shows, vaudeville, burlesque, early films for the most part were presenting female impersonators as heteronormative, although undoubtedly some of the performances were queer coded and performed by queer artist who were closeted in some instances. (and those are exactly the types of examples we should be highlighting when looking at drag's roots within the broader subject of female impersonation) In short, I think we should move much of this history to the female impersonation article, and really focus in on the queer identity aspect of drag within this article. 4meter4 (talk) 05:40, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I do not undertand the use of the word queer in these contexts and decided years ago not to try to figure it out. I have had a number of drag queens as friends and in shows I worked on. Some of them are against the use of that word, others are not. So, proceed and do what you feel is good for Wikipedia, and we'll let others weigh in! All I ask is that you proceed with caution. It's still a controversial word, believe it or not. Best wishes, --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

 * @ I hear you, but I think its equally controversial to tie up all female impersonation up into drag. Dame Edna Everage for example really shouldn't be in the drag (entertainment) article because Barry Humphries insisted he did not do drag and was not a drag queen and was merely an actor performing a character. When we get down to it, drag queens are an intimate part of and are inextricably linked to LGBTQ culture, and they perform a unique social/cultural role in the LGBTQ community. Drag queens work in gay bars and in nightclubs, and the ball and pageant systems were built around a gay and transgender sub-culture. Drag queens also have their own subculture not shared with female impersonators with words unique to their world (see Drag Race terminology). The drag queen is a performer attached to a certain socio-cultural and even political setting (the gay rights movement was influenced by drag queen activists). Drag queens are involved in pride parades, and LGBTQ rights protests. That's very different than the long history of female impersonators working in minstrel shows, vaudeville, burlesque, plays, musical theatre etc. for predominantly straight audiences, and by mainly straight men who never performed in gay clubs, participated in the ball or pageant drag scene, or engaged with drag queen culture (ie. the ball scene, the LGBTQ nightlife scene, the linguistics/language of drag, etc.). Female impersonation is not attached to a particular socio-cultural group, whereas drag is. That said, there is always going to be some overlap between the two, and there will inevitably be certain performers that do not fit neatly anywhere or bridge the divide. It's a very difficult thing to concretely define. Best.4meter4 (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Drag queen


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User:172/Talk block 7

"Propaganda stunt" is a pretty heavily-loaded term; it says that the action being taken is insignificant and just for show. For instance, much of the space race of the 1960s could legitimately be considered a propaganda stunt, because the actual significance turns out to be minor. Rescuing hostages held at gunpoint is never a propaganda stunt; to say otherwise devalues the hostages, and implies that holding hostages is not a criminal act. By choosing the same words that the Soviets would have used to justify their actions, you're not critically examining anything, you're just presenting their point of view. I can see where you might think you're being helpful by presenting an unusual point of view, but it's still a single point of view. Best would be leave out the loaded words altogether, and put the he-said-she-said stuff in Berlin Airlift, which is a pretty thin article for an episode with so many implications for the Cold War. Also, since you apparently sincerely believe there's no socialist bias, try out some of your material on a mix of your leftie and rightie acquaintances. I'll bet that the lefties will think it's perfect, and the righties will fume and splutter. I can try the experiment with some of my acquaintances too; which finished article mostly written by you do you think best exemplifies neutrality? If my rightie friends grudgingly allow that it's correct, then I'll shut up. Stan 08:28 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Well, now you've gone and made my last comment mostly irrelevant! :-) Yes, I like the Berlin airlift bit much better now - captures the essence of what happened. Stan 08:42 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Things must have gotten mixed up somewhere, I've never seen you write anything that appeared to have a right-of-center lean. My Cold War comment had to do with the way you phrased the ending, talking about how the Russian people are worse off now than during the Soviet era, to wit: Reaganite hawks relished in post-Cold War "triumphalism," idea of the "end of history," and a "new world order" based on American-style liberal democracy, while the "liberated" population of the former Soviet Union is mired in misery. The viewpoint of the right is that the absence of liberty was the truly miserable part, and characterizing Russia as now "mired in misery" makes it clear that you are more favorable to the Soviet system, especially when combined with the SU history you've written. Stan 13:53 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I was mistaken in using the phrase "Soviet system" - I should have said "socialism". My net impression from your Soviet history was "it could have been the worker's paradise but they screwed it up by not sticking to the original principles". Oversimplified to be sure, but my rapidly vanishing brain cells won't store much more. That's why summaries are so important; even your best and most intricate analysis is useless if all that your readers remember is one randomly-chosen sentence out of the middle. If I'm having this much trouble, what must it be like for a college freshman seeing all this for the first time? If what's happening is that you're wanting to present multiple analyses and in practice only have enough energy to write the first one, I suggest that you do a first pass that sticks to bare facts, and then layer that with interpretations later, perhaps in separate sections or articles. Right now the facts are intertwined with some analysis, and it's hard for people to fix factual errors without scrambling the assessments in the process. Another way to put it is that Braudelesque narrative is not partitioned so as to make it amenable to the wiki-way of incremental addition; if you try, you end up with large lumps of text that few link to, and fewer read. Stan 21:40 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I love Braudel - one of these days I will add articles for him and his works - and I've pondered whether there is a good way to fit the broad narrative into the wikipedia article form. So far I don't have any good ideas; long articles are bad because most readers will give up after a couple paragraphs, but the traditional encyclopedia subject articles don't cross-link sufficiently closely to do a sort of surfing-type read. For instance, you mention Soviet historians inline, but I've only read about three books relating to Russia, and don't know anything about these particular historians or the basis for their arguments - maybe they're good, maybe not. A link to the historians describing them and their analyses in more depth is needed. Or to borrow from Braudel, perhaps links to articles that are tables of demographic data, etc. I cracked open a volume to a random page - wikified Braudel would be almost entirely "blue", it's so dense with references and connections. Stan 23:31 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I do agree that text shouldn't be removed from the article, but, forgive me, nobody is actually removing text. User:Pizza Puzzle has added a few links, shuffled some bits around, and done a little light rewriting here and there, but never removed text. Whether Pizza Puzzle is Vera Cruz is debatable, but personally I don't care - their edits are fine and that's all that matters to me. As I've said, if in the future Pizza Puzzle or anybody else starts repeatedly moving text against consensus, or creating a "jumbled, incoherent mess", then we can deal with that, but at the moment this simply isn't happening. --Camembert

It might be a bit soon. Yes he is beginning to act the prick, but it would be wiser to wait until he does something dramatic before calling the cops. By all means let Jimbo know that Adam is starting to slip back into the old ways, but before the community acts I suspect they will want to see a bit more than just adding in pointless links and moving stuff around. Maybe a quiet word from Jimbo might be all that is needed to nip Adam's slipping in the bud. After all, even alcoholics sometimes slip. Give him space and he may either prove our worries wrong or prove that he has to be acted against. As of now there is a worrying trend starting to re-occur on this and other pages, but it still isn't strong enough to get everyone to jump up and scream "that is it. We've had enough of this" and move to kick him off. If he is kicked off now it will be the end of the line for him, so people will want to be convinced he is completely back to his old ways. He is beginning to move in that direction but isn't there yet and (here's hoping) won't get there and will return his better behaviour as PP. :-) FearÉIREANN 00:58 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I understand. I was being a bit ironic there. :-) To be honest it be a bad idea. If someone who has made a fool of themelves before comes back, they may want to start again as someone about whom there are no past attitudes. I think that may be why PP worked so well, because OK most of us knew who he was, but the attitude was, if your work is up to scratch, we'll practice a wiki version of don't ask, don't tell, a case of we'll pretend we don't know who you really are, if you pretend by your behaviour that you aren't that person and act differently. It is only if someone shows no intention whatsoever'' of changing (DW, Michael) that we enforce the rules to the letter. Getting PP to put an "I am Adam" badge on his page would, I fear, be the equivalent of pouring petrol on a fire; it would inflame the situation and make him more, not less, likely to revert to past behaviour. I just don't see how that would stop him. But if you want to suggest it to Jimbo, by all means do.

BTW, it was unwise to protect the two pages. I know from personal experiences not to use the power when you see someone in your view deliberately screwing up the contents of a page when you know the actual facts. I've had to bite my lip a few times, but if we are involved in an edit war we really shouldn't do the protection but ask someone unconnected with the dispute. And we certainly should never protect a talk page except in the most extreme case. It was an understandable reaction; I'm sure many sysops have been on the brink of doing it, some probably have. The only time I've come close was where one user kept coming on every few weeks and reverting a page to their long out of date version, wiping out everyone's edits in between and breaking almost all the links (as they had changed all the links in their original version to ones that went nowhere. I thought initially that they were simply someone who didn't know what they were doing. After 7 attempts I concluded they were just trying to fuck up the article for the fun of it). I spent weeks everytime they came on, first nicely, then bluntly, saying "stop it". In the end when they spent an entire day trying to reverting I protected it; if it had only been my additions that were being lost I would have got another sysop to do it, but they were erasing the edits of nine contributors so I wasn't protecting my work but everyone's, some of which personally I disagreed with. But protecting a page where you are one of the main protagonists in an edit war is inadvisable.

Listen, don't let PP get to you. I can be stubborn as hell with some people, and some users make me see red the moment I see them so much as touch anything I have worked on. But in the end there is no point in letting them do that to you. Just wait until they are bored and go elsewhere and then go back. Don't make an issue of you versus them in the minds of people. Give them enough rope and see will they hang themselves. You don't have to push them. (Not that I'm great at following my own advice sometimes!:-) ) wikilove FearÉIREANN 02:13 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for coming to Catholicism 172. It badly needs professional help. I'm amused to find that I am 'defending' the RC church, given that I am a seriously lapsed catholic who is gay and have been accused of being anti-catholic for stuff I am writing in my newspaper column. What is happening on that page is wiki at its worst; some people who have a hazy understanding of some issue and a strong personal prejudice highjacking a page and filling it with unadultrated rubbish. Where would wiki be without professional historians like you and me, eh! Do feel free to protect that page. The page is not exactly of first class honour standard (I'd put it at just about third class honour if not pass) but with that rubbish it would plummet to no grade whatsoever. FearÉIREANN 05:19 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It almost makes me wish for Fred!!! Fred may have been to NPOV what Justin Timberlake is to Mozart but at least he wrote in friggin' english, not pidgin english. :-) FearÉIREANN 05:38 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

MB noted the following during the Catholicism row.

Also, the account Voiceofreason was only created during this edit war.

Voiceofreason and Nostrum's edits do overlap to a curious extent, so much so that I'm rather suspicious. Also Nostrum's english is too bad to be believable. Even at the time I thought there was something deeply fishy about it. A self proclaimed gay 21 year old person with a high IQ who cannot write english and equates homosexuality with paedophilia? Not very likely. He has no problem expressing himself on talk pages but not on the main page, where he doesn't just come out with pidgin english but with statements that someone with an IQ of 50 wouldn't make, such as talking about New Born Christians and Mormons as catholics. Something is very fishy about it. I can't help wondering if we checked whether Nostrum's and Voiceofreason's IPs would be in the 65.xxxx IP range. Or maybe there has been a full moon and another of our trolls has been hit by multiple personality syndrome again! Certainly I can think of two trolls whose specialities were triggering off edit wars by doing something exceedingly stupid, pretending sometimes how they could not speak english and introducing two or more characters into a debate, then leaving 'thank you for your support' messages on each other's talk pages to pretend they really were two people. Curiouser and curiouser. :-) FearÉIREANN 07:02 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hey, I thought someone else was voiceofreason. My english is pretty good by the way, you just don't understand my sentence structure. In addition, I don't check everything I put in for grammar or spelling errors. I suppose I should, I didn't understand you guys took it so seriously, but I'm beginning to understand. Oh, and if you're wondering, the reason my coments seem so outragous is because I'm an ignorant athiest. I really don't know much about the Bible, simply because I've only read about 2 pages. But I am entrigued by the comments you write. I am attempting to learn and assimilate the information you present to me in a non-biased manner and generously approve of comments that would both critique and approve of my additions. Please comment on the recent additions and items that I've fixed on my personal page. Thank you. Nostrum 08:47 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I am simply asking for a forum of discussion. If you feel there are certain things that should be left out, then please feel free to discuss them. Protecting a page is simply another form of censorship. Besides, it won't be protected in the morning. You and others alike are simply deleting the information and leaving no note as to why. If you wanted to convince me I would listen. I have listened. In fact I've changed my additions almost 100 times to be more acceptable. Please tell me what you think is wrong with what I wrote, be very thourough. In fact, tell me how I can fix it to add to the article. Responding in any other way would be puting you in a clearly biased position. Let us motivate each other to improve this article for the better. I don't want to have inaccurate information as much as you. Thank you for your time. I trust you'll handle this with maturity. Nostrum 08:58 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Protecting a page in a discussion where you have already expressed a strong opinion borders on violation of our protected page guidelines. If you want the page to be protected, ask another sysop who was no part of the discussion to do so. I have unprotected the page. --Eloquence 09:21 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I agree with the remarks of eloquence, however, it would seem that you were indeed operating within the moral guidlines of this system. However, I do believe that you should have consulted me first, since I was the appearant aggrevator for the article, and subsequently your protective barrier. Your lack of attempt at reasoning, instead of bullying, leads others to believe you indeed had a biased position to begin with. This threatens your position as an op and a moral leader. I'm not mad at you, in fact I'm happy you feel you did the right thing. Next time just make sure you exhaust every option before going to the extreme. I hope to see your comments here in the future. Thanks. Nostrum 09:51 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

what's wrong with the change I made, it's more accurate, that's what you want isn't it? OR do you just like restoring the page?

____

who are you to say your opinions of standards are higher than mine? You're gone boi. Nostrum 10:17 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying. The crap you're trying to post is saying it.

I've been really busy these past couple of weeks planning, running, and now summarizing a conference, but I will try add something to the 1865-1918 piece some time this weekend. Danny

For the record: I think your aims in protecting the Catholicism page were acceptable. It was the procedure which was followed collectively by experienced users (not just, or even primarily by you) that stunk. And I don't just mean the protection of the page, but the whole way of dealing with the admittedly immature user Nostrum. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 13:30 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I'm quite impressed by the New Deal article (a big improvement on what was there before) the great depression article could do with a bit more international content adding mind, perhaps a bit more about South America, but otherwise fine.

By-the-way have you looked at the Gold Standard article, I think it's in need of a bit of serious NPOVing G-Man 17:45 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hello, 172. According to the deletion log, you deleted King & Spalding when it had been on VfD for only three days. The current deletion policy is to wait at least seven days before deleting something, except in the case of pages with no useful content. That doesn't apply here. I've tried to undelete the page, but I'm getting a database error. Must be something to do with the ampersand. Hmm. I'm not sure what I can do about that. Anyway, please remember this policy in future. Thanks. -- Oliver P. 18:19 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well, I've restored it for now. Evercat 18:31 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words on the Catholicism talk page. And I was glad to defend you on the w-list. I thought Erik's actions unacceptable and unfair. :-) FearÉIREANN 04:40 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

title: User:172/Talk block 7


text:
User talk:Someone else

Someone else
You stole all my girlfriends :( -User:towel401

Clean slate: previous contents in history

Re Lung: very clear, thanks! AxelBoldt 18:08, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Cheers for the correction on Robert Edwin Lee! --snoyes 04:48, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I guess my concern is his suddenly rewriting the article to claim that immunity doesn't exist - I saw a Discover article some time ago about the apparently immune African prostitues, were they all just lucky? In particular, they have been cited as evidence for natural selection among humans, so I can't help wondering if anyone objecting to their existence is a creationist. -- Pakaran 05:26, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I think at last count, 43 of them were still lucky. It make sense to talk about "relative susceptibility" rather than "immunity", which is too absolute-sounding. -- Someone else 06:03, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

quotes vs. italics
I guess i forgot how plays were written. Am I right in my other thinking? Kingturtle 10:42, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * novels, "short stories"
 * movies, "television shows"

 * Thanks for the help! That info should be on Manual of Style in easy to read form, no? Kingturtle 11:04, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

not trolling

 * We've had this discussion about five times before. We've had votes. Bringing it up on VfD again without trying to get a consensus first is pretty close to trolling, though I regret using such a word to describe the actions of Someone else. Martin 18:53, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Martin, the problem can't be cured by a fragmented approach. And a return to discussion after more and more redirects get added is not fairly assessed as trolling. -- Someone else 19:03, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Two more redirects, I believe. The productive approach would be to get a consensus on Talk:AKFD/redirect on those two redirects, which should be easy, and then list those two redirects here. Relisting the whole kit-and-caboodle is not going to be productive, I fear. Martin 19:14, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Then again, maybe I'm just being unnecessarilly frightened. I've removed this from VfD, because it probably wasn't being very productive. Martin 19:36, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How is it going to be more productive here than it was on VfD? -- Someone else 19:46, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Fewer people will see it, and you can delete it when read. Some folks get perturbed when I just delete their writings, so now I often move to user talk: instead for them to deal with as they will. Martin 19:56, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

So you want fewer people to see it? why? -- Someone else 20:04, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Because I think I wasn't being productive, so if fewer people see it then it will waste less of other people's time. Also, as I noted, I think I may have been unnecessarilly frightened. On the other hand, if you believe it is productive, by all means return it to VfD. Martin 20:09, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I don't know how you can have been frightened. Is the deletion of the network of AKFD redirects frightening? Nonetheless, I agree that the most productive thing would be to let a few other people express their opinions. -- Someone else 20:14, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'm frightened at the kicking of sleeping dogs. Martin 23:13, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Dogs should be trained not to lie in the way. This one's blocking the doorway having puppies. I'm frightened that the unwatched pot will boil over. -- Someone else 00:25, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

From Talk:AKFD/November 2003, I can't tell what people are thinking about deleting the original article. I don't think the redirects issue can be solved until that is decided. If the article goes, there is no point having redirects to it. Do you think the consensus on the original article was to delete it? Angela 16:22, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think the old votes on redirects are void because people were voting about redirecting to an article that existed, but now it doesn't exist (except as a redirect). However, Martin says this would be a mistake, and I can see his point. He suggests contacting those who previously voted to keep one or more of the redirects to ask them if, with the article having no independant existence, they would like to change their vote, or else re-affirm it. I've already wasted too much time on this silly article, so I'll leave it up to you if you want to do that. Votes should be made at Talk:AKFD/redirect. Angela 17:44, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thank you - I thought I'd voted several times on this issue already but that seems not to be good enough for some people :( Secretlondon 19:47, Nov 22, 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure how you get to say "Martin decided", given that I just expressed my opinion to Angela, when she asked me. Still, maybe I should just be grateful that I have such power. Martin 21:12, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I certainly anticipated you'd raise a fuss if she deleted the pages that were voted on. Was I wrong? -- Someone else 21:26, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I've previously expressed my deep respect for Angela's decision-making abilities in this area, and her wisdom in determining when there is rough consensus for deletion. Where Angela decides to delete an article that was listed on VfD, I rarely have cause to even question her judgement, let alone the desire to raise a fuss. Martin 22:00, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Yes, Angela's decision-making ability was not in question. -- Someone else 22:21, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Is Someone else gone from Wikipedia? That's disheartening. john 08:02, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * Indeed it is, if that's so. If you're lurking out there, Someone, come back! --Camembert (who would put this in a poetic way if capable...)

I wonde if Someone else would be kind and check what I wrote on Folkung? Hope your are still there...Long time no hear? Dan Koehl 15:53, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Poll: New York City
You expressed interest in the name of the New York City article on its Talk page. Could you please vote in the poll there? Thank you. --Lowellian 00:01, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

Someone Else hasn't posted since last November, sadly

Osiris - Dionysus
Hello.

Could you help fix the Osiris-Dionysus article? I have noticed you using that talk page. The article should contain information from Osiris and Dionysus though with respect to Mystery religions rather than earlier legends.

I would prefer it not to include Historicity of Jesus as that doesn't seem very relevant to much more than a small summary and then a link to Historicity of Jesus which (now) contains that information (I am currently slowly editing that page, so it looks a bit of a mess at the moment).

The Osiris and Dionysus pages will need to have a link back to the Osiris-Dionysus page as will Attis etc.

Google may be a good place to look for content.

The Osiris-Dionysus page will need to be linked to from Life-death-rebirth deity as well.

Duplication on any of those pages will need to be removed, and replaced with a short summary linking to the Osiris-Dionysus page.

Thanks.CheeseDreams 19:28, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started the Free the Rambot Articles Project which has the goals of getting users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to... using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) version 1.0 and 2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to the GFDL (which every contribution made to Wikipedia is licensed under), but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles (See the Multi-licensing Guide for more information). Since you are among the top 1000 most active Wikipedians, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles.
 * 1) ...all U.S. state, county, and city articles...
 * 2) ...all articles...

 * Nutshell: Wikipedia articles can be shared with any other GFDL project but open/free projects using the incompatible Creative Commons Licenses (e.g. WikiTravel) can't use our stuff and we can't use theirs. It is important to us that other free projects can use our stuff.  So we use their licenses too.

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the   template (or    for public domain) into their user page, but there are other templates for other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace   with   . If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know at my talk page what you think. -- Ram-Man 17:45, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

Image:ErikXIVtree.png
Thanks for uploading Image:ErikXIVtree.png. I notice it currently doesn't have a specific image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, bdesham 00:16, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Queen Victoria Surname
Please note that the dialog on this issue has been moved to a separate discussion page: Talk:Victoria of the United Kingdom/Surname. --StanZegel 19:06, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Madge Oberholtzer
I need a source of the quote describing Madge Oberholtzer as apearing to have been "chewed by a cannibal"

 * I think I may have it. There is a webpage that appears to contain the Front Page of the Indianapolis News from 16 Nov 1925. The lead article is about the conviction on that day of D. C. Stephenson, and it contains the quote you are looking for. My only hesitation is that this webpage is clearly a reconstruction of the front page in HTML, made by a teacher of US history for his/her class. Is it accurate? I don't know, but it sure looks good. Link: Indianapolis News 16 Nov 1925. — Aetheling (talk) 19:07, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Fun Google facts
I think you need to update the article counts. --JWSchmidt 00:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Sources for Impeccability
Hello, some time ago you added a fair bit of content to Impeccability. As you may be aware, we are currently trying to improve Wikipedia's verifiability and reliability by making sure articles cite the sources used to create them. Do you remember what websites, books, or other sources you used to add content to Impeccability? Would it be possible for you to mention them in the article? See WP:CITET for some quick templates to use for citing sources. Thanks! --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 02:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

What does the mnemonic device on you page mean?
Well, I am just curious... Billvoltage 02:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Philanthropist
I've added the "prod" template to the article Philanthropist, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Philanthropist. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. — Sebastian (talk) 03:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Adolpho.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Adolpho.png. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 05:51, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Would you be interested in joining the Wikipedia Crime Project?
I have seen that you like to contribute to serial killer articles I am trying to organize a task force on this subject under WikiProject Criminal Biography. If you would be interested in joining contact me. Thanks, Jmm6f488 19:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Stover at Yale
Please come help me build SAY. Foil the deletionists. TCO (talk) 19:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Lauren Bessette
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Lauren Bessette. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Articles for deletion/Lauren Bessette. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Someone else! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created  is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the article:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:50, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Deborah Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire -

Requesting your opinion
Hi. I've started a discussion here. (Actually, it's a restart of a prior discussion that went cold; you can just scroll directly down to the first post I made today in that section if you want.) Can you offer your thoughts? I think it's very important. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 02:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Jedediah Chapman for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jedediah Chapman is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Jedediah Chapman until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Suspension of admin privileges due to inactivity
Following a community discussion in June 2011, consensus was reached to provisionally suspend the administrative privileges of users who have been inactive for one year, meaning administrators who have made neither any edits nor any logged actions in over one year. As a result of this discussion, your administrative privileges have been removed pending your return. If you wish to have these privileges reinstated, please post to the Bureaucrats' noticeboard and the userright will be restored per the re-sysopping process (i.e., as long as the attending bureaucrats are reasonably satisfied that your account has not been compromised and that your inactivity did not have the effect of evading scrutiny of any actions which might have led to sanctions). This removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon you in any way. We wish you the best in future endeavors, and thank you for your past administrative efforts. RL0919 (talk) 22:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of John Stevens (immigrant) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article John Stevens (immigrant) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/John Stevens (immigrant) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Northamerica1000(talk) 06:42, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Notice of change
Hello. You are receiving this message because of a recent change to the administrator policy that alters what you were told at the time of your desysopping. The effect of the change is that you will not longer be able to request restoration of the tools because of your prior inactivity. You have until December 30, 2012 to request restoration or else the policy will prevent you from doing so in the future; you would need to seek a new WP:RFA. Until December 30, you can file a request at WP:BN for review by the crats. Thank you.  MBisanz  talk 04:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

(delivered by mabdul 23:49, 3 December 2012 (UTC))

Invitation to join the Ten Year Society
Dear Someone else,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Ten Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for ten years or more. Since you are among the first who wrote on my talk page in 2002 I want to invite you to the Ten Year Society.

Best regards, Dan Koehl (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:51, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Oscar II article (AD 2002)
Hello, Someone Else! By Wikipedia standards, for many years ago now, you created the Oscar II article, as it seems from the history file. (Well done, by the way) But as you presumably know, has our demands for sources and especially for inline refeerences, been tightened quite a lot since 2002. I'm just wondering if you possibly could make that article up to today's standard of references. I haven't got any litterature on him, except encyclopedical stuff. Thought perhaps you have ? If you don't care about this task at all, then please just ignore this meassage. Cheers Boeing720 (talk) 03:29, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Thank you for your username, it made my day

Aiden LaBonne (talk) 18:59, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

"Harry Potter censorship" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Harry Potter censorship and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 1 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 06:04, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

title: User talk:Someone else


text:
Talk:Lifting body

2005-2006
The M-2 was a development of an earlier design in which I worked. Therefore my opinion is probably biased. However, I did receive three degrees in Engineering. In my opinion, if the X-24 design had been picked for the basis of the Space Shuttle, it would have been better. Look at the thick leading edges and compare them to the, relatively, thin edges of the shuttle. The reason for the shuttle's thin wing was to give it higher lift to drag ratio probably because it had a need for lift to alter its entry trajectory. There may, or not, have been a military requirement for this. Of course, if the launch is made in the right trajectory, there is no need for this. Perhaps if there is a follow up design...
 * In order to get U.S. Air Force support (but not Air Force funding) for the Space Shuttle, NASA had to design a much larger craft than it needed. It had to add the larger 15x60 ft cargo bay and the larger cross range performance demanded by the Air Force. By doing this NASA got Air Force support before Congress for the Space Shuttle. Reubenbarton 14:26, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

- Is this a M2 Lifting Body?

Yes, it is the M2-F3 (see, it has the same tail number). andy 17:42, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC) -

Lifting-body planes are safer and more efficient than current jets. Current jets have a fragile, tubular fuselage which breaks apart under a small amount of stress. The equivalent lifting-body design has a passenger compartment which is a rigid metal box, offering much greater protection to the passengers. Also, the engines aren't attached to the fuel tanks, as they are in most passenger jets. Why is this a problem? Because one of the engines could be forced into a fuel tank in a crash. Also, the landing gear on conventional jets are attached to the fuel tank(s), which are in the wing--usually the full length of the wing. So, if the landing gear collapses, the fuel tank could break open. The fuel tank in the wing is also typically under the passenger compartment. Would you want to sit just above the fuel tank in a crash? This doesn't happen with lifting- body planes. Yes, the fuel tanks are in the wings, but the wings are attached to the SIDE of the passenger compartment. Thus, there is no fuel under the passenger compartment. Also, the wings could be detached by the pilot, in case of a fire, at the moment of touch down. With most of the fuel gone, there is a much greater chance of survival. (The passenger compartment, the landing gear and engines continue moving.) Another advantage of lifting-body planes is reduced take-off and landing speeds. A large lifting-body passenger jet will take off and land at 80 mph, compared to 160 mph for conventional jets. This provides several advantages: There is less chance of tires blowing out; take-offs use less fuel; take-offs and landings are quieter; take-offs and landings use much less runway. The reason that lifting-body planes can take off and land at such slow speeds is that the plane's ENTIRE STRUCTURE provides lift, rather than just part of it with conventional jets.

A lifting-body plane, the UB-14, designed by Vincent Burnelli, once crashed into the ground at 195 MPH. This was on Jan. 13, 1935, as reported in Newsday Magazine for Dec. 12, 1982, page 19. Everyone on board survived. It would be interesting to have a Boeing engineer describe what would happen if their latest model crashed at 195 MPH.

Quoting from the Neswsday article, "The pilot, Lou Reichers, reported that he 'flew the ship into the ground from about 200-foot altitude...the right wing being nearly vertical and absorbing the first shock. This impact caused the airplane to cartwheel... The body remained intact, and no fuel leaked from the wing tanks... The box-body strenghth of this type...saved myself [sic] and the engineer crew, and had the cabin been fully occupied with passengers with safety belts properly attached, no passengers would have been injured.  This crash landing is an extraordinary example of the crash safety that can be provided by the lifting-body type of design'." All ellipses were in the original text.

Current jets could be made much stronger by retrofitting the planes with Monocoque construction, which consists of installing strong metal beams in the fuselage walls, from the front to the back of the plane. This would make it much less likely that the flimsy fuselage would break apart under stress, possibly cracking one of the fuel tanks.

Another problem with current passenger jets is the emergency slides, which sometimes blow away in a strong wind, catch fire or fail to inflate. Lifting-body planes don't have this problem. The doors are three feet from the ground, so passengers could jump to the ground, or walk down a few steps.

On April 3, 2006, you may have seen a picture of the C-5 cargo plane that crashed in Delaware. It broke into three pieces, with the cockpit section completely severed from the rest of the plane. This wouldn't happen with the lifting-body design. Apparently the C-5 didn't have Monocoque construction (see above).

For more information, go to www.Aircrash.org.

Above text by S.L., Fridley, Minnesota, USA--Mar. 31, 2006. Updated Apr. 3, 2006.

Lifting body the opposite of a flying wing?
Is this really accurate? "It is related to, but the opposite of, a flying wing"

Doesn't make much sense to me and could use some explanation.

Number of Flights - HL-10
How come the list here shows 1 flight yet the article on the HL-10 itself says 37?

thanks
 * I don't know why it says 1 flight. Pages 193 to 200 of Reed's book list the specific flights, their pilots, and other details. You could count the number of HL-10 flights if you like. Aeronrd (talk) 01:17, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Also: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/pastprojects/Lifting/HL10/ indicates 37 flights of HL-10. Aeronrd (talk) 01:27, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Lifting body: it's not just for aircraft any more
The article to date is aircraft-heavy in its emphasis. Increasingly, spacecraft are being designed for horizontal landing (VTHL, or HTHL), and lifting body design is often an explicit part of the spaceplane design. Given the new NASA CCDev phase 2 proposals announced yesterday, at least of couple of which appear to be VTHL spacecraft with explicit "lifting body" design incorporated, I think it is probably time to evolve this article a bit to reflect both aircraft and spacecraft lifting body designs. What do other's think?

If no objections surface, I will begin to incorporate a more balanced coverage of spacecraft lifting bodies, with sources, as I get the time to do it. N2e (talk) 16:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think your suggestion is a very good one. I agree that the lifting aspect of spacecraft is not given adequate coverage at present.  Please add as much extra information as you can find.  Dolphin  ( t ) 23:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

 * A good protion of the article, especially the Aerospace applications section, is about early designs for the space shuttle, and also mentions several other designs in the past for spacecraft with lifting bodies. The only photos are of lifting body X-planes that were used to research potential Space Shuttle designs. The article just needs updating, not "balancing". - BilCat (talk) 01:56, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * ✅ — I have belatedly begun to flesh out (update) the article to reflect spacecraft lifting bodies. More work is needed, but then the entire article needs a good bit of work.  Cheers.  N2e (talk) 04:31, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Mentioned Dream Chaser but not ...
Mentioned Dream Chaser but not the following lifting bodies: * Boeing X-37 * ISS Crew Return Vehicle / X-38 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.251.66.179 (talk) 18:46, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joelogon/2644360795/ --Craigboy (talk) 13:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Dale Reed's book has many details
I added a reference to Dale Reed's 1997 book: Wingless Flight. This book has many details from the history of lifting body research at NASA, and Dale Reed was one of the world experts on the topic.

I think there are many places in this article where a citation is needed, and someone could probably confirm or refute the claim with information in Wingless Flight.

The PDF is available online: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19980169231

Aeronrd (talk) 01:22, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

ESA IXV
The information regarding IXV ([]) is outdated... The february/2015 test flight has indeed taken place (Successfully; see http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31421200). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.231.146.126 (talk) 15:41, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

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Armstrong Facility Anachronism?
Since Reed was working in 1962, I think the facility should be referenced as "Dryden", rather than "Armstrong." It wasn't renamed for Neil Armstrong until after 1969. Kelseymh (talk) 21:51, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Agreed, but not sure on the exact wording. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 05:47, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lifting body


text:
Talk:Heimrad Prem

Untitled
Maybe it's me, but this article is so much gibberish. I have no idea what this person is supposedly working on. RickK 07:38 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Heimrad Prem


text:
Talk:Fortress of Louisbourg

Untitled
Hm. This article says that the fortress was taken in 1757 but my search indicates 1758. Which is correct? Please input this sentence if it is right: "The island battery at Fortress Louisbourg was silenced on July 25, 1758 and all French warships were destroyed or taken." If this is wrong please fix July 25 and 1758. Thanks! --mav 07:39 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

And hmmm from me as well re: Fortress Louisbourg, and I quote: "In 1745, a force from New England captured the fortress." It is my understanding that it was a force from ENGLAND... not the United States. Does someone out there know? I'm pretty sure I'm correct! Also re: Cape Breton history - John Cabot did not "discover" Cape Breton; the Mi'kmaq were here before he was! Thanks!

 * Well, Cabot was the first European, etc etc...however, in 1745 I thought it was a militia from New England. I don't really recall at the moment though :) Adam Bishop 05:20, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * Keep in mind that in 1745 the United States did not exist as such - they were still colonies of Great Britain. Is it possible that it was a force of british regulars stationed in new england or something? This seems a likely source of confusion. -lommer 19:30, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

For clarification on this history I have added additional research material from my unpublished work, (Kings, carpenters and heretics,)which I hope will be of some use. Copyright Faedra 13:46, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC) to the best of my knowledge, any disagreements on this matter please make known.

Interesting article
I enjoyed this article however, I found its lack of an adequate number of sources discouraging. To fix this problem, I intend to expand the section of the 1758 siege and add several credible sources to back my work. If anyone has any questions/concerns/feedback please feel free to contact me or leave a message in this page. J Dogg 23:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC) J Dogg

Would be careful useinf Fowler as a source, having tryed to use his book "Empires at war" to write grad paper, i found he has some books/ documents listed in his bib that don't seem to exsist. there seems to be a lot of this artical that is lifted word for word from said work with out the proper notation, -bondo

Stamps
The use of stamps here seems to be primarily as cheap illustrations, which is not a legitimate fair use. I don't know of any of way in which the stamps are of interest in themselves, they are are just random commems. Stan 18:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Split
There should be two new articles on both sieges (of 1745 and 1758), and the better titles would be First Siege of Louisbourg and Second Siege of Louisbourg Sbmcmull 15:11, 18 July 2007

 * It does appear that the article has grown and the seiges could be split, allowing for more information about the actual fortress and settlement. Has there been any further interest expressed by other Wikipedia contributors?Plasma east 14:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Support a split. I would prefer the titles Siege of Louisbourg (1745) and Siege of Louisbourg (1758). BradMajors (talk) 20:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Article has been split. BradMajors (talk) 15:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Fortress of Louisbourg


text:
Talk:Helmut Sturm

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Edofedinburgh 23:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Is "Galerie van de Loo" really the correct name? For a place in Munich, it doesn't seem to have a German name. RickK 07:47 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Helmut Sturm


text:
Talk:Carl Barks

Cruddy writing
Why is there reference (unsourced) to his former wife Clara swinging whiskey bottles at him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.218.229.154 (talk) 23:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It adds color and is accurate; it is mentioned in Michael Barrier's book. Dgabbard (talk) 04:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

First Disney story
How do you define "First Disney story"? Before Pirate's Gold he drew that Pluto Story; the first story he wrote for comics was the 2nd ten pager.

The first piece of comic Barks contributed to is (according to the best of our knowledge) a DD daily strip gag from 1938 for which he sold a gag idea. The second one is "Pluto Saves the ship" which he co-wrote with Jack Hannah and Nick George (1942). The third one is "Donald Duck Finds Pirate Gold" for which he drew half of the art with Jack Hannah (1942). The fourth one is "The victory garden", a Donald Duck 10-pager which he drew entirely (he also heavily rewrote the script that was submitted to him) in 1943. The fifth one is "The Lucky Rabbit Foot", a DD ten-pager which is the first he entirely wrote and drew. There are probably a few more Daily strip gag ideas that Barks sold in the late 30s-beginning of the 40s, but we will probably never know which one. The specialists suggest that the strip of 7/30, 1940 is one of them. Please see the Inducks database for the full accurate information. Herve661

Can someone explain how Barks contributed to The Plastics Inventor in 1944, if he left the Studio in 1942? RickK 07:55 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

He left the Studio at 1943 while he had worked on the production of several shorts that weren't released yet. But the Plastics Inventor is not usualy mentioned as one of them. Perhaps he contributed to the plot? User: Dimadick

Mentioning the ancestry of the person who serves as the subject of an article is rather standar use in the Wikipedia. See for example the articles on Dickens, Disney and Emperor Norton I. It doesn't serve as a geneology but just mentions their family background for those interested. It doesn't mean that each of the mentioned persons gets his own article. Any other ideas of what to add to the article? User: Dimadick

 * I disagree with the Disney info, but at least his family has their own articles. The Dickens info is excessive, and the Norton info especially so.  I will delete the birth and death dates and the bolding.  If you want to create separate articles about the ancestors, then please give us info in this article, otherwise, what do they add? RickK 08:37 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I am going to mention their names and some of their decisions a the following paragraph and till the end of his school days so they might as well be listed at the beginning of his biography. Birth and death dates just contribute to an understanding of what generation they belong to. Wikipedia has several articles on American Generations. For example Carl himself is listed among the G.I. Generation. See those articles it. User: Dimadick

The successor
Would it be of any relevance to mention that Don Rosa is widely regarded as Barks' spiritual successor? In fact, Rosa idolizes Barks' style to the point that his confessed goal is to make their styles indistinguishable - and he usually succeeds. - 200.195.88.155
 * Could be, but Barks has had many successors. My own favourite is probably Daan Jippes. He maintains the same energy and movement in his comics as in the older Barks' stories. Personally, I think Rosa's style is quite stiff and lacking in emotion.

I met Rosa twice, and as he said, his style is very different from Barks, although he tried to follow Barks. There is a huge difference between the two, especially on personalities. And there are also many different successors, I agree that Jippes (with Fred Milton) is one of the closest. Herve661 19:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think every duckburgian artist can be praised as Bark's successor. Don Rosa itself can be regarded as successor since his story often referred to Carl Bark's stories. The same discussion also appear in Talk:Don Rosa. Kunderemp 23:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Info from Only A Poor Old Man
Hopefully there are some editors who watch this page. I don't know where to put this info. It should be merged into this article per Articles for deletion/Only A Poor Old Man. Thanks. --F a ng Aili 說嗎? 04:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Only A Poor Old Man is a Donald Duck story written by Carl Barks in March 1952.

 * Don't worry, look on fr.wiki at Category:Carl Barks' Story. Sebjarod 10:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Barks and Andersen
It was Will Eisner who called Barks the HC Andersen of comics - I read that in a book, but I can't find it on the internet. 96T 11:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * (in Norwegian, unfortunately). If you could find out what book, that's an adequate citation too. Sam Vimes | Address me 11:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

 * This is not a reliable source and it is not even available any more . I added an alternative source for the claim that Barks has been compared to Andersen. Needless to say that the claim that Eisner made this claim first has not been verified yet. --Omnipaedista (talk) 02:31, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

"Fantagraphics Books called him "the Hans Christian Andersen of comic books.""  Well, in the reference that you show (reference number 2), Fantagraphics is CITING Will Eisner for calling Barks "the Hans Christian Andersen of comic books."! Benadikt (talk) 09:09, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Censorship pre-80s
There were some Bark Stories in 50s and 60s which have been censored and redrawn such as "The Darkest Africa". Eric Shanower warned the reader in his recommendation. If someone know which stories were being redrawn, I think it would be interesting to put in wikipedia. I only knew one, "Darkest Africa", when the villain went to native village to hire some men. Kunderemp 23:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

 * It is a rather complicated situation. In some cases, Barks' work was censored by his publisher before publication (such as the 5 page sequence cut from "Back to the Klondike"). He also sometimes dropped pages to tighten and improve a story. Kim Weston's article "My Secret Life By Scrooge McDuck - Or, The Unpublished Carl Barks", published in Funnyworld no. 16 (1975) and distilled into Michael Barrier's Carl Barks and the Art of the Comic Book is the authority on this topic. Disney has also in contemporary times mandated some changes, although the redrawing you cite when "Darkest Africa" was published in the Carl Barks Library was actually because there was no good source material and they had to use inked tracings (albeit rather poor ones). Dgabbard (talk) 01:19, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * On the web, you may have a look here and here. Herve661 (talk) 07:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A correcion: "Darkest Africa" had both censorship and problems with source material.Dgabbard (talk) 04:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

the oil paintings
I tweaked and improved the description of how Barks shifted from taking commissions to selling the paintings via auction. Even found a drawing dated Sept. 1974 where Barks confirms by then no more names were being taken. I also took out excess detail about the painting sold in Boston in 1975--we don't need to know who bought it, that it hasn't changed hands or its current value. Sounds like an ad not material that belongs in a biography of Barks. Dgabbard (talk) 18:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have again removed excess detail about the 1975 sale, that the buyer became a friend and spoke at the funeral. Comes across as egregious egoboo that has no place in a biographical article.Dgabbard (talk) 04:24, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

DuckTales
Could someone please fill me in why there is absolutely NO mention of DuckTales in this article? Like is it really that irrelevant? Didn't he help create the show? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Infinitysend (talk • contribs) 03:44, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

 * He created Duckburg from the 1940s up to the 60s, and the makers of Ducktails chose to ignore 99% of what he had done when they were doing the series around 1990. --79.193.62.12 (talk) 06:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

 * The article on DuckTales mentions Barks. That seems adequate.Dgabbard (talk) 04:28, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Good Duck Artist
I've inserted two sentences (and a print source) into the second bulleted point under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Barks#The_Good_Duck_Artist before the last sentence. My idea here is to reinforce the significance of the adventures to Barks' corpus of work; hope it's not overly pedantic for an encyclopedia entry. Alas, I've got no access to the original hardback print of vol. 6 of the (black and white) Carl Barks Library to see if the Blum quote is the same in the original as it appears in the subsequent edit I've got, but 'Vacation Time' is beautifully colored where I have this cite from. If the insertion passes muster, I might later do a page for 'Vacation Time' such as other Barks tales below have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onundtreefoot (talk • contribs) 18:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Indeed, I ought to have signed: Thanks for that nudge! Onundtreefoot (talk) 19:26, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I made it a separate paragarph and tweaked the wording.Dgabbard (talk) 04:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Top Importance?
There's a discussion on which comic-related articles should be listed as "Top Importance" on the importance scale, and I feel this article should not be included. If any user disagrees or wishes to contribute, please do so there. Argento Surfer (talk) 14:42, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:52, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Carl Barks a Finnland 94.jpg

Barks and Belief
I've removed a phrase that described Barks as "an atheist", as unsubstantiated.

Here's my blog on the subject

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.73.191 (talk) 02:00, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Carl Barks


text:
Marcel Deprez

Marcel Deprez (12 December 1843 – 13 October 1918) was a French electrical engineer. He was born in Aillant-sur-Milleron. He died in Vincennes.

Biography
Deprez was born in Aillant-sur-Milleron in rural France and attended the School of Mines in Paris. He was not able to complete the course; however, he must have made a good impression, as he was employed as a secretary to the Director of the school, Charles Combes.

At Creil, from 1876 to 1886, Deprez conducted the first experiments to transmit electrical power over long distances. At the International Exposition of Electricity, Paris, in 1881, Deprez undertook the task of presenting an electricity distribution system based on the long-distance transmission of direct current. The first successful attempt took place in 1882 from Miesbach to Munich at the occasion of the Exposition of Electricity in the Glaspalast organised by Oskar von Miller. There he transmitted 1.5 kW at 2 kV over a distance of 35 miles.

Deprez conducted experiments in La Chapelle, Grenoble, Vizille, Paris, and Creil. He eventually attained transmission over thirty-five miles for industrial purposes. In 1889, René Thury continued his approach of arranging generators in series, eventually developing commercial systems delivering 20 megawatts at 125 kV over 230 kilometers.

title: Marcel Deprez


text:
CME

CME. or cme, can refer to any of the following:

Organizations

 * Canadian Military Engineers, the military engineer branch of the Canadian Forces
 * Central European Media Enterprises
 * Central Music Company (CME), Beijing, China
 * Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, a historically black denomination of Methodism, formerly called "Colored Methodist Episcopal Church"
 * CME Group, a financial securities exchange services and information firm
 * Chicago Mercantile Exchange, a financial and commodity derivative exchange, owned by CME Group
 * College of Military Engineering, Pune, a training institution of the Indian Army Corps of Engineers
 * Columbia Music Entertainment, former name for Nippon Columbia, a record label in Tokyo, Japan
 * Conseil Mondial de l'Eau, the World Water Council, an international think-tank focused on water issues
 * Creighton Manning Engineering, a civil engineering firm in Albany, New York

Physiology and medicine

 * Chief medical examiner, common official title of a coroner
 * Continuing medical education
 * Clathrin-mediated endocytosis, another name for receptor-mediated endocytosis (RME)
 * Cystoid macular edema, an eye disorder also known as Irvine–Gass syndrome

Science and technology

 * Concurrent Machine Environment, a computing environment supporting ICL Direct Machine Environment
 * Coronal mass ejection, a massive burst of stellar wind and other ejecta from a star
 * Clathrin mediated endocytosis

Transport

 * Chief mechanical engineer, the chief officer of a railway responsible for locomotives and rolling stock
 * Castlemaine railway station, Australia
 * Ciudad del Carmen International Airport (IATA code), Campeche, Mexico
 * Combe railway station (National Rail code) in the county of Oxfordshire, UK
 * Prince Edward Air (ICAO code), a defunct airline based on Prince Edward Island, Canada

Other uses

 * cme, the ISO 639-3 code for the Cerma language spoken in Burkina Faso
 * CME, the ITU country code for Cameroon

title: CME