text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/tɨβ̃uɨl

Etymology
From earlier Proto-Brythonic, from.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/tɨβ̃uɨl


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/ėiriβ̃

Etymology
From earlier Proto-Brythonic, from + the masculine form of.

Noun

 * 1) a number, counting

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/ėiriβ̃


text:
greinen

Etymology
From, from , from. .

Verb

 * 1) to whine, moan

title: greinen


text: greiner

title: greiner


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llọn

Etymology
From, from.

Adjective

 * 1) full

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llọn


text:
ლბილი

Etymology
From, from.

Adjective

 * 1) soft
 * 2) calm (person)

title: ლბილი


text:
Talk:haired

haired
By its own admission, this word doesn't occur on its own, but only as part of compounds. However, I don't think that terms like are really formed with this "word" at all. To me it seems that it's formed straight from +. —CodeCat 18:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

 * If the entry says that by its own admission, then it is testifying falsely:
 * 1888, Charles Wyville Thomson, Sir John Murray, Report on the Scientific Results of the Voyage of H.M.S. Challenger, page 40:
 * It was pointed at the tip, and whilst its dorsum was haired the opposite surface was hairless, hollowed out into a concha and directed forwards and outwards.
 * 1993, Robert Ruark, The Old Man's Boy Grows Older, page 205:
 * He made only one exception: our big rangy Llewellin setter named Frank, a blue-ticked genius that knew integral calculus where quail were concerned, and was haired almost as thinly as a pointer.
 * Cheers! bd2412 T 18:33, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Or (from 1967, The Major Insect Pests of the Rice Plant: Proceedings): "Antennae dark brown, moderately thickly haired, about half the length of body...". Keep. Equinox ◑ 19:20, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per bd2412 and Equinox; more examples are in . --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:45, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Searching for is/was/are haired with no modifier also turns up many hits. bd2412 T 20:16, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Has anyone checked out the comparatives? Donnanz (talk) 19:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 2014, Gerardo Ceballos, Mammals of Mexico, page 306:
 * Their tails are both indistinctly bicolored, but N. picta has a thinner and more haired tail.
 * Cheers! bd2412 T 20:17, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I was a little dubious about the comparatives for the standalone sense when looking at this entry before, probably more common when used in combination; e.g. more silver-haired. Donnanz (talk) 20:31, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Undoubtedly more common in combination, but it would meet CFI as a standalone word. We should probably adjust the definition accordingly, and add a usage note indicating that it is usually found in combination with another descriptor. In the meantime, I have collected all of the above citations at Citations:haired. bd2412 T 21:14, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

 * @CodeCat: I don't think there is anywhere else to put terms like dark-haired, as entries like dark hair seem to be taboo. Those derivatives are entered here as a result. Donnanz (talk) 21:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Almost any color (green, olive, strawberry, blue), reflectance (shiny, dull, lustrous, luminous), and many textures (curly, nappy, wavy) can fit with this as simple Google searches would show. I don't doubt that there are many other classes of adjectives that can be so combined as well, as well as nouns like feather, worm, snake, cat, mouse, crepe paper, and mink. What exactly is the point of having these derived terms when the meaning is normally SoP? DCDuring TALK  22:05, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * We seem to chronically underestimate the productivity of such combining possibilities and try to lexicalize some whimsical subset of what actually exists in our efforts to, what, build up our apparent quantitative achievements? DCDuring TALK 22:08, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Standalone definitely attestable in comparative (more/less). DCDuring TALK 11:19, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a completely productive construction: take any noun, make a past participle out of it as if it were a verb, and you've got an adjective denoting "having, provided with". Add an adjective, and you have an adjective for having that which the noun refers to with the attribute referred to by the adjective: given a noun "grelm" and an adjective "freemy", you can say something that has grelms is grelmed, and if those grelms are freemy, then you can say that a flurb is freemy-grelmed. This is the same as in Latin, where it's the perfect passive participle that's used- there are huge numbers of taxonomic names constructed this way. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:48, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Comment Does -haired have possibilities? Pur ple back pack 89  22:20, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * IMO it's superfluous as a full entry but would be a really good hard redirect. We probably need a lot more of such redirects. DCDuring TALK 22:54, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Definitely keep as cited as being real. I see no way that this entry can be deleted. Nothing wrong with waiting the full week, but I consider this debate dead. Renard Migrant (talk) 23:37, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we need to distinguish between the two senses: the first is clearly attested and probably valid, but the second is questionable, at the very least. This should have been an rfd-sense, since the OP only refers to the second sense, and doesn't make sense if the first is included.Chuck Entz (talk) 02:17, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The first sense is attested on Citations:haired. The "combination" sense would seem to be in widespread use. Are talking about haired or another term? DCDuring TALK 02:51, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I added the new first sense during the course of this discussion, to more accurately reflect the standalone usage of "haired" in sources. The entry could not have been rfd-sense nominated to begin with because at the time there was only one sense (which is now sense 2). bd2412 T 03:15, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I forgot about that. Nevertheless, my point still stands: this should be an rfd-sense for the second sense, now that there's a first sense. We need to address the issues raised regarding this sense without attempting to apply them to the sense you added- in that context, they're still valid and unanswered. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:49, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * So, what is the evidence in support of the claimed morphology? Even if there was some evidence in support of this theory, what would be the point? To have entries for the hundreds of combinations involving haired and the many thousands of combinations involving denominal adjectives ending in -ed? To what real humans is that valuable? DCDuring TALK 08:30, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The derived terms will probably suffice, although I seem to remember a song about a "long-haired lover from Liverpool". Donnanz (talk) 23:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that it is also easy to find non-hyphenated references to "red haired", "long haired", "short haired", and so on. bd2412 T 16:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Kept: No consensus to delete the entry. Pur ple back pack 89  16:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:haired


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llọβ̃

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) palm, hand

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llọβ̃


text: greinene

title: greinene


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llọr

Etymology
From.

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llọr


text:
avventataggine

Etymology
From.

title: avventataggine


text:
avventiccio

Etymology
.

title: avventiccio


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/nant

Etymology
From,.

Noun

 * 1) stream, river
 * 2) valley

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/nant


text:
avventiziato

Noun

 * 1) casual work

title: avventiziato


text:
avventuratamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) riskily

title: avventuratamente


text:
avventurina

Noun

 * 1)  aventurine

title: avventurina


text:
avventurista

Noun

 * 1) adventurist

title: avventurista


text:
Nephthys

Etymology
Borrowed from, from ,

Proper noun

 * 1)  An ancient Egyptian goddess, the wife of Set and sister of Isis, Osiris, and Set, worshiped as a protective goddess and nurse of the pharaoh and associated with funerary rites and the transition from life to death.

Translations

 * Greek:
 * Ancient: Νέφθυς
 * Latin: Nephthys
 * Marathi: नेफथिस
 * Russian:

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Proper noun

 * 1)  Nephthys

title: Nephthys


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llʉɣ

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) troop

Descendants

 * (in toponyms)

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llʉɣ


text:
Rhymes:Spanish/us

One syllable

 * bus
 * cus
 * ñus

Two syllables

 * bambús
 * cabús
 * champús
 * cuscús
 * gurús
 * hindús
 * iglús
 * Jesús
 * menús

Three syllables

 * ambigús
 * autobús
 * caribús
 * ferrobús
 * patatús
 * trolebús

Four syllables

 * aerobús

title: Rhymes:Spanish/us


text:
cuscús

Etymology
Late 19th century, from, from.

Noun

 * 1) couscous

title: cuscús


text: Category:es:Pasta

title: Category:es:Pasta


text:
avynas

Etymology
From, from.

Cognates include 🇨🇬; 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, < 🇨🇬, etc.

The suffix -ýnas is of unclear formation. It may be linked to the identical suffix in,. Compare also 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬 dialectal.

Further -n- extensions to the root can be found in 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) maternal uncle

title: avynas


text:
personisks

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) personal

title: personisks


text: champús

title: champús


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/sɨx

Etymology
Borrowed from. Parallel borrowing with 🇨🇬.

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/sɨx


text: Category:Proto-Brythonic terms derived from Latin


text: ogne

title: ogne


text:
פֿאָרן

Etymology
From, from , from , from. Compare 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to ride, drive, travel (to go by vehicle or animal)
 * 2) * (Yiddish folk lullaby):
 * 3) * 1936,  (film)
 * 1) * 1936,  (film)

title: פֿאָרן


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llann

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) land, area, plot
 * 2) sacred place, churchyard

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llann


text:
papagailis

Noun

 * 1) parrot

title: papagailis


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/puɨs

Etymology
Borrowed from, from. Parallel borrowing with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) weight

Descendants

 * poos
 * poos

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/puɨs


text:
zmarszczka

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) wrinkle
 * 2) ripple
 * 1) ripple

title: zmarszczka


text:
off and running

Etymology
An allusion to the beginning of a footrace or horse race, when competitors rush forth out of the starting blocks or gate.

Adjective

 * 1)  Launched or launching vigorously into a course of action.

title: off and running


text:
rzepka

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  patella, kneecap
 * 1)  patella, kneecap

title: rzepka


text: Category:cy:Milk

title: Category:cy:Milk


text: Category:cy:Dairy products

title: Category:cy:Dairy products


text: hymenyn

title: hymenyn


text: chosyn

title: chosyn


text: gosyn

title: gosyn


text: nghosyn

title: nghosyn


text: nghaws

title: nghaws


text: gaws

title: gaws


text:
貉子

Noun

 * 1) tanuki (raccoon dog)

title: 貉子


text: triduorum

title: triduorum


text: triduis

title: triduis


text:
akarma

Noun

 * 1)  A state of no action in which one refrains from seeking any outcomes.

title: akarma


text:
kill one's darlings

Etymology
A piece of advice to prospective authors that they must kill their “darlings”, i.e. suppress overuse of their favorite expressions, tropes, characters, etc. Often attributed to (1897–1962), but already expressed earlier by  ; more recently popularized by.

Verb

 * 1)  To destroy things or characters, particularly in art, of which one is fond, and thereby conflicted about.

title: kill one's darlings


text:
Talk:bloom

Bloom the gelatine
What does this recipe instruction mean? "bloom the gelatine in cold water" 86.184.161.129
 * It probably means to test the strength of the gelatine in water. See Bloom (test). Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 22:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That's different. Blooming in this sense is about hydrating and softening dry gelatin. It can be either transitive or intransitive: one could also say "Gently stir the gelatin into the water and set it aside until it has bloomed". Chuck Entz (talk) 02:32, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

 * We're still missing this sense, I think. Equinox ◑ 18:23, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

(countable and uncountable)
For comments on (countable and uncountable) see Grease_pit/2023/December. —DIV (49.181.60.115 04:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC))

title: Talk:bloom


text:
бағдарлама

Etymology
Possibly from, from.

Noun

 * 1) programme
 * 2) schedule
 * 3)  program

title: бағдарлама


text: Hirschen

title: Hirschen


text: Brüsten

title: Brüsten


text: بالىق

title: بالىق


text:
補過

Verb

 * 1) to make up for an earlier mistake; to make amends

title: 補過


text: 补过

title: 补过


text: 渡假

title: 渡假


text: جاساعان

title: جاساعان


text:
Wiktionary:About Proto-Brythonic

Proto-Brythonic is the last common ancestral stage of the Brythonic languages: Western Brythonic Welsh, Southwestern Brythonic Breton and Cornish, and likely Cumbric as well.

Consonants

 * Sonorants: *l, *ll, *r, *rr, *m, *n
 * Approximants: *j, *w
 * Voiceless plosives: *p, *t, *k
 * Voiced plosives: *b, *d, *g
 * Labialized voiced plosives: *gw
 * Voiceless fricatives: *f, *θ, *x, *h, *s
 * Labialized voiceless fricatives: *hw
 * Voiced fricatives: *β, *ð, *ɣ, *β̃

Vowels

 * Back rounded: *u, *o, *ọ
 * Central rounded: *ʉ
 * Front rounded: *ü, *ö
 * Central unrounded: *a, *ɨ
 * Front unrounded: *e, *ė, *i

/oɨ/ and /uɨ/ were the regular development of long /ɛː/ and /eː/, respectively, while also resulting from vocalization of certain consonants following /o/ and /u/, whence also developed /aɨ/ and (partially) /ei/.

Diphthongs
I-dipthongs:

 * Front unrounded: *ėi, *ei
 * Front rounded: *üi, *öi
 * Central unrounded: *aɨ
 * Central rounded: *ʉɨ
 * Back rounded: *uɨ, *oɨ, *ọɨ

U-diphthongs (which we spell with w):

 * Front unrounded: *iw, *ɨw,*ėw, *ew
 * Front rounded: *üw, *öw
 * Central unrounded: *aw
 * Central rounded: *ʉw
 * Back rounded: *ow, *ọw

Developments from Proto-Celtic
Vowel development from Proto-Celtic to Late Brythonic:

In closed pretonic and pre-pretonic syllables, short -u- and -i- had been been reduced to rounded and unrounded schwas, respectively.

A-affection
When followed by the vowel /a/ in the final syllable, the short high vowels /i/ and /u/ are lowered to /e/ and /o/, respectively.

 * Proto-Celtic > Proto-Brythonic

This leads to a masculine-feminine distinction in some o-stem adjectives, as the masculine form continues /i/, and the feminine form now has /e/.
 * Masculine vs feminine

Final i-affection
When short back or non-high front vowels in penultimate position are followed by front high vowels or semivowels, mainly /iː/ or /j/, they are subsequently fronted and (if possible) raised:

Short /e/ is also the only vowel that is affected by short /i/: Proto-Celtic > Proto-Brythonic
 * /e/ becomes /i/:
 * /a/ becomes raised /e̝/: Proto-Celtic > Proto-Brythonic
 * /o/ and /u/ become /y/: Proto-Celtic > Proto-Brythonic

Internal i-affection
When short non-front-high vowels in any position are followed by front high vowels or semivowel /i/, /e̝/, /y/ or /j/, they are raised and/or fronted:
 * /e/ and /a/ become /e̝/:
 * /u/ becomes /y/:
 * /o/ becomes /ø/:

Miscellaneous raisings
/e/ and /o/ raised to /i/ and /u/ respectively before -rn-. o also raised to u before -rg-. /e/ also raised to /i/ before intervocalic -g-. These raisings may be reversed if a-affection is present.

Consonant mutation
Initial consonant mutation is essentially the same phenomenon as lenition, as well as other forms of consonant development, only now applied across word-boundaries. *esyo tegos > *esyo degoh (lenited); *esyās tegos > *esyāh tegoh > *esyāh θegoh (spirantized).

In the table below, the symbol ◌̞ is used to indicate a more weakly articulated version of a consonant, and ◌̬ to indicate a partially voiced version of a voiceless consonant; in both cases which the lenited consonant is derived from this version.

Basic vowel reflexes
Notes:
 * 1 In non-stressed Old Welsh syllables.
 * 2 Accent shift from ultima to penultima beyond Old Welsh caused monophthongization of ⟨aw⟩ to ⟨o⟩.
 * 3 ⟨ei⟩ becomes ⟨ai⟩ in Modern Welsh stressed monosyllables and final syllables.

Miscellaneous changes
The sequence *wo- led to *wa- in leniting positions, but was retained in non-leniting positions. This allomorphy was resolved separately in the daughter languages, with one reflex being generalized over the other.

Nouns
The plural is usually formed based on the Proto-Celtic nominative plural.

Notes:
 * 1 The plural ā-stems and plural neuter o-stems gave the same result as their respective singulars after apocope, leading to the spread of plural markers from other stem classes.
 * 2 From an earlier British plural *-iyes, which arose from analogy with the neuter i-stem plural *-iyā to parallel the plurals of the u-stem *-owes (m./f.) and *-owā (n.).
 * 3 Through the sequence of intervocalic s > h > Ø > epenthetic j > ð.
 * 4 The usual plural cerynt/ceraint was secondarily supplied with the o-stem ending *-oi > -ī, causing final i-affection.

Adjectives
(put information about feminines, plurals and comparatives here)

title: Wiktionary:About Proto-Brythonic


text:
Wiktionary talk:About Proto-Brythonic

Progress
Not quite done yet, but it's a start.

According to Kenneth Jackson (1953), PB /w/ had developed only to a lightly velarized approximate /ˠw/ by the time of the split, before developing fully into /gw/ in West and Southwest Brythonic. I'm not really sure the best way to transcribe it, so I've left it as  for now. Anglom (talk) 23:49, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering if we should revisit this.  is pretty common in Old Breton, which seems to point to it not being fully realized as [gw] yet. Maybe <ẉ> or just simply <ˠw>? --Victar (talk) 01:32, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * gw is just fine. —CodeCat 01:36, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it might be overstating a change that hadn't happened yet. Especially because we're talking about a 🇨🇬-- merger. --Victar (talk) 01:39, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It's common to all Brythonic languages, the definition of Proto-Brythonic. —CodeCat 01:48, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Is it though? Like I mentioned, we have a lot of attestations of  in Brythonic languages and Jackson didn't reconstruct it as [ˠw] on a whim. --Victar (talk) 01:52, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * We represent [ˠw] as gw. —CodeCat 14:40, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Exactly and since [ˠw] and [gw] are different, perhaps they shouldn't be labeled the same. What about using <ɣw>? <ɣ> is an already used character and I'll differentiate words in PBry that are *ɣw- and *gw-, from PCelt *w- and *gu/*gʷ, respectively. --Victar (talk) 19:18, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Are w- and gw- consistently distinguished in at least some Brythonic languages? —CodeCat 19:26, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Old Breton is probably the best example of  vs. /. The two were confused in the merger, but it does demonstrate that at some point, they were understood to be distinct., do recall what Jackson says on this? --Victar (talk) 20:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

ē
Proto-Celtic had no ē; PIE ē develops into ī. So what does it represent in the table?
 * Ah, it would be representing ī then. Anglom (talk) 01:14, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Proto-Celtic probably did have ē, because the monophthongization of ei probably happened within Proto-Celtic. If not, then certainly within Proto-Insular Celtic (if you believe in that). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:54, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Celtiberian does not seem to have di mono phthongised *ei, showing as it does this spelling ⟨ei⟩, especially in the dative singular. So it's almost certainly not Proto-Celtic. There may have been a common ancestor ("Proto-Northern-Celtic") of Gaulish and Insular Celtic, as several scholars suspect (Lepontic may or may not belong to this group), and the monophthongisation could have happened there. (As an innovation common to Gaulish and Insular Celtic, Schumacher points out the enclitic relative particle *yo < PC *yod, which replaced the fully inflected, sentence-introducing relative pronoun *yos, yā, yod reconstructible for PC. Goidelic and Brythonic in turn share not only striking innovations in the verbal system, but also the change from *s [z] to *ð immediately preceding voiced stops. The enterprise of subgrouping Celtic is, of course, hampered mainly by the limited attestation and our consequently limited understanding of the Continental Celtic languages.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:46, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I take it you mean Celtiberian does not seem to have monophthongised *ei, but AFAIK some scholars believe that the spelling ⟨ei⟩ was purely orthographic and stood for /eː/. I'm not sure what leads them to that conclusion, though. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * That seems like an unfalsifiable claim. —CodeCat 16:22, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Matasovic in his introduction says that PIE *ey became PC *ē and that it naturally came after PIE *ē became PC *ī. He also describes it as a Late Celtic change. According to Old Irish this PC *ē became OI /e₁ː/ (as well as from Latin ē), which was distinguished from /e₂ː/ which arose from compensatory lengthening from consonant loss or vowel hiatus. There apparently was also a change that preceded this which deleted laryngeals in *eyHC > *eyC, which then led to *ēC (I believe M reconstructs <  < ). — JohnC5 18:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If *ei was still a diphthong in PC, its vowel system would have had /i, e, a, o, u/ as short and /i, a, u/ as long vowels – each by itself perfectly symmetrical and cross-linguistically extremely common, but the combination, a vowel system with more short than long vowels, is certainly typologically unusual and I've seen it described as unstable. So from this point of view, it certainly looks systematically expected that new long /e, o/ would arise through monophthongisation eventually. However, that does not mean that PC (which by definition wasn't spoken for an extended time period, at least if you take it to refer to the most recent stage recoverable by external reconstruction alone) cannot have had exactly such an unstable system. So if this is Matasović's line of argument, as I suspect because of the "naturally", I don't buy it. Ultimately, however, it doesn't really matter anyway since you can view *ei simply as an abstract representation of a phoneme whose precise pronunciation is irrelevant – only its place in the system is (per a structuralist approach). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:28, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * To clarify, the naturally was an infelicity of my phrasing. Matasovic was saying that the PIE *ey > P(N)C *ē must have come after PIE *ē > PC *ī or else PIE *ey would too have resulted in *ī. Sorry for the confusion. — JohnC5 18:59, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

*au, *ā
Old Welsh shows a diphthong for these, at least in spelling, and only later the spelling becomes "o". Is it established that the pronunciation was already /ɔ/ in Brythonic, with a change to a diphthong in Welsh and then back to a monophthong? It seems more likely that it was still a diphthong. —CodeCat 19:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I missed this. The diphthong was monophthongized to /ɔ/, but in stressed syllables ending in a light syllable, the /ɔ/ was long (only stressed vowels in light syllables could be long, the stress being on word-final syllables, what used to be penultimate stress before apocope). This long /ɔː/ was then again diphthongized to /au/ in Welsh, but short unstressed /ɔ/ remained. From what I can find, Breton and Cornish never turned /ɔː/ back into /au/.

 * Each of the Brythonic languages later switched back to penultimate stress later on, at different times, apparently. Anglom (talk) 22:37, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Would you happen to know what went on with the word for "two"? All the Brythonic languages have a diphthong here. —CodeCat 22:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Mutation
I don't have solid information on mutation of the resonants other than /m/. Welsh obviously shows mutation of /r/ and /l/ but I'm not really sure about /n/. And I read somewhere, I can't remember where, so I will have to find it again, that Breton and Cornish treat /r/, /l/ and /n/ differently in radical and lenited position, with one being longer. I'm not altogether certain about this situation, so I tentatively represent the remaining resonants in lenited position with Greek letters, after the traditional representation of lenited /m/ with <μ>, with no speculation as to their phonetic realization.

The /st/ and /s/ mutations are also tentative, as apparently these mutation paradigms fell apart quite early, according to Schrijver. This seemingly accounts for the incomplete sound shifts of /st/ > /s/ and /s/ > /h/ within the Brythonic languages. Anglom (talk) 22:48, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Initial sw-
What is the Brythonic outcome of initial *sw-? Purely by the table it ought to be *hw- but Welsh seems to have chw- instead. —CodeCat 22:35, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Generally seems to be given as /hw/, with Welsh /χw/ being a later development. I wondered if it might have given /xw/ originally, but I can't find any sources that support it. Anglom (talk) 23:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

All these letters
I'll admit I'm a novice to these more ancient reconstructed languages, but I was wondering, what is the difference between using đ and th? The Britons used neither when PB was around, so why not use the English? Sorry if it's a stupid/obvious question. Cheers UtherPendrogn (talk) 09:10, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

The English th*, sorry. UtherPendrogn (talk) 09:11, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sometimes that's convenient. For example we often use th, kh, sh for transcribing Arabic, as in Uthman, Khalid, Shari'a. Arabic has a sound /h/ but the actual clusters /t+h/, /s+h/ are very rare, so it's harmless to use th for something other than /t/ followed by /h/. But many Indian languages have aspirated consonants, which are similar to /t/ followed by an actual /h/, so it's natural to use th for this combination, and kh for /kh/, rather than the /θ/ and /x/ that they represent in Arabic. This presents a problem with, for example, Urdu, which has native Indian /kh/ plus borrowings from Arabic with /x/. We shouldn't use kh for both of them. In practice this happens in ordinary transcription of place and person names, but it's not suitable for scientific use. And in Australian languages th means something else again: it's a /t/ but pronounced between the teeth. As they usually have neither /th/ nor /θ/, this convention is harmless locally. So conventionally easy transcriptions have their place, but if you want to clearly indicate the sounds of a lesser-known language, something close to IPA is better, so that everyone with some technical knowledge can easily understand what sound is meant. --Hiztegilari (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

I see, thanks. UtherPendrogn (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Adjective inflection
In Proto-Celtic, adjectives matched the noun in gender, case and number. With cases gone in Proto-Brythonic, that still leaves gender and number. What did this inflection look like, and were the different inflectional classes still distinguishable? —CodeCat 17:36, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, at least in nouns, the situation in Brythonic is actually similar to Romance, specifically Modern French: sometimes Breton reflects a different case form than Welsh, for example. It has been concluded from that that Brythonic may still have had a two-case inflection (nominative and accusative) much like Old French and several other medieval Romance languages, although it may have been more limited, or altogether marginal, because the nominative and accusative forms should usually have fallen together due to the complete loss of final consonants unlike in Old French.
 * (Typologically, it seems that accusative, nominative and genitive are the most tenacious cases, and this triad is reconstructible for Proto-Romance AFAICS, given that Romanian attests the genitive as morphologically distinct in the a-stems, where Slavic interference cannot explain this, even in the article-less form; however, the genitive isn't morphologically distinct in Old French anymore, except in pronouns, though there are syntactic traces, especially in expressions such as la roi cort, la Dieu merci, though these may already have been become fixed or quasi-lexicalised.)
 * I don't know literature on the problem of noun inflection in Proto-Brythonic, but one approach would be to "reconstruct forward" Proto-Celtic nominal paradigms into Proto-Brythonic mechanically, using the known sound developments, and analyse how many distinctions remain, purely on a phonological basis, and compare these reconstructions to the attested Brythonic material. Though going from the Old French and Old Irish cases, and also from Old English and other (especially West) Germanic languages, my hunch is that the inflectional classes were still distinguishable to a limited extent (consider the vowel changes in Welsh adjectives, which wouldn't occur the same way in i-/u-/consonant-stem adjectives, at least originally), although in the process of disappearing. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:48, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

TT
Does "tt" always spirantise into θ? I've noticed it happen a lot, like katta and kritta become kath and kreth (can't add the macrons right now). UtherPendrogn (talk) 11:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think so, yes, for any tt present in Proto-Celtic. Remember that a PIE tt already became ss in Proto-Celtic, so it doesn't apply to them. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:59, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep, cheers. Shall we add that to the "about" page? UtherPendrogn (talk) 14:11, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If you like, but it isn't just this one: all of /pp tt kk/ become /f θ x/. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:18, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Further romanisation
This is very much icing on the cake, but would it be possible to have some sort of convention to romanising the letters even further? It would be nice to have a "scientific" way of presenting the words, as we're doing now, by IPA (roughly), and then a smoother "more romanised" way. I've made this up on the spot, I'm not suggesting it should be exactly like this, but consider this: Scientific: lėβėrjad Cleaner: lévéryad, or even just leveryad (I'm not quite sure what sound ė represents!) Or as has been the convention with Old English and Latin recently, replace those acutes with macrons. lēvēryad. I've also got an unrelated question: If i-affection changes one letter, can than letter then change another? I've made this word up to demonstrate it, but let's say you've got Proto-Celtic mamajos. Would it become mamė, or would the fact that the j turned the second a into ė lead that ė to turn the first a into an ė too, giving mėmė? UtherPendrogn (talk) 17:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Proto-Celtic intervocalic -j- wouldn't survive in that position. It might presumably become *mamās or some such form. Aside from that, internal i-affection would mean that the first -a- become raised like the second as well. In a form like *mamabjos, final i-affection would cause the second -a- to become -ė-, while later internal i-affection would cause the first -a- to become -ė-. *mamabjos > *mamėbjos > *mėβ̃ėβ.
 * <ė> stands for a raised /e̝/, which is slightly higher than a standard /e/ because it facilitates internal i-affection.
 * I don't really see a point in changing the transcription. Why represent /β/ with  when we still have to represent /ð/ as <ð> and /ɣ/ as <ɣ>. The only place where I knowingly deviated from IPA is with vowels, and that's because the reconstructions looked far too awkward that way. Anglom (talk) 21:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * But that's my point, they still look awkward. And I'm suggesting replacing all the IPA letters with some sort of convention, but still keeping the original forms. UtherPendrogn (talk) 05:36, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what symbols are the most widely used in the literature on Proto-Brythonic; everything here looks ad-hoc to me. The advantages to using /v/ instead of /β/ are (1) to the best of my knowledge, the reflex is labiodental, not bilabial, in all attested Brythonic languages, so the sound was probably labiodental already in PBr, and (2) ṽ is a precomposed Unicode character that is much easier to recognize than β̃ where it's difficult to see the tilde because the beta is so tall. I believe the usual symbol for a closer "e" is e with an underdot (ẹ) rather than with an overdot (ė), which I've only ever seen in Lithuanian. Using "y" instead of "j" would bring our transcription into line with that already used for Proto-Celtic and PIE, but if "j" is more common in the literature (as it is, say, for Proto-Germanic), then we should stick with it. So, unless the literature clearly militates against it, what I'd prefer is lẹvẹryad. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:55, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The recent literature uses the IPA symbols, except for /β̃/ which they represent as ⟨μ⟩ or ⟨ṽ⟩ (although the latter with the caveat that it was more likely bilabial).
 * In the earliest attestations /β̃/ is frequently spelled ⟨b⟩, just as /β/ is (also as ⟨v⟩ and ⟨u⟩). While it could represent a nasalized labiodental fricative, the safest explanation is that it represented the unstable bilabial fricative. It also better explains why in some environments /β̃/ and /β/ became /w/, which I'm led to believe is much more common of /β/ than /v/.
 * The overdot rather than underdot is just a simplification on my part so that the reader is aware <ė> is raised, <ọ> is lower (/ɔ/). Anglom (talk) 13:35, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * In that case, I guess we should stick with /β/. I'd use ẹ for raised /e/ and ǫ for lower /ɔ/, as is traditional in Romance historical linguistics, or else just use ɔ for /ɔ/. I think to the extent anyone has expectations for what ọ means, they'll probably expect it to mean a closer /o/, not a more open one. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:09, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * ǫ just makes me think nasal vowel. I think the overdot/underdot notation Anglom devised makes sense, once you realise what the placing of the dots signifies. —CodeCat 14:11, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Is this what all these symbols mean? Great to know. Whatever we decide, we should definitely provide an explanation and justification on here! — JohnC5 14:48, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think my point is being missed. All these IPA letters are jarring, most languages only have a handful of "unconventional letters", while Proto-Brythonic could easily give you a word like löđėβ, which just looks silly though of course that's only my opinion'. While from a scientific and linguistic perspective we should use the existing format, I'm proposing a format that would be easier on the eyes and used SECONDARY to the existing format.
 * If there were a sign where Proto-Brythonic was written, would you prefer "jėdriđoβ mi jüɣöβ̃", which is the correct linguistic form, or a cleaner "yēdrithov mi yugoṽ"? UtherPendrogn (talk) 16:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * wiː dəʊnt gəʊ əˈraʊnd ˈraɪtɪŋ laɪk ðɪs. Though it is technically correct, we have a conventional way of writing and a "linguistic" one (IPA). UtherPendrogn (talk) 16:05, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't ever try to learn Proto-Slavic or Proto-Italic, I would suggest. —CodeCat 17:54, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * While an amusing joke, it doesn't answer my question. Do we plan to implement some further romanisation, or leave it as is with IPA letters all over the place? Both are fine with me, but I was curious. It looks very jarring to have:
 * Outros becomes Uθr which becomes Uth(y)r.
 * See what I mean? Latin alphabet, weird mix of IPA, Latin alphabet. And it's not just a matter of Old Welsh being attested in the Latin script, since Proto-Celtic is a reconstruction and the "weirdest" letter there is Phi. And anyone not savvy in IPA can read a Proto-Celtic sentence without too much trouble, while "Uθr" would be very jarring.
 * UtherPendrogn (talk) 18:00, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Jarring is, as you said earlier, an opinion. We decide on a convention and stick to it. I personally like this one because it is similar to what we use in PI. Also, we have “weird” characters in Proto-Celtic and Proto-Indo-European as well. The system for PIE laryngeals looks like we're doing ugly calculus, but it's the convention. — JohnC5 18:08, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm not suggesting we replace the current format, just add a second, clearer one. UtherPendrogn (talk) 18:15, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Now that I'm definitely opposed to. It's a protolanguage, it doesn't need two competing orthographies. And it doesn't need an easy-on-the-eyes orthography that one would be comfortable reading a newspaper in. It needs a straightforward, unambiguous one-to-one mapping of symbols to reconstructed sounds. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:37, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Which would mean writing in IPA. And the vowels are innacurate, as Anglom said. UtherPendrogn (talk) 20:59, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Artognou
, is there a language code for Common Brythonic? cel-bry doesn't seem to work, since I'm guessing it's just a family code right now. Artognou is an example of a Common Brythonic name, from Cornwall dated 600 AD. You could maybe call it Proto-Cornish, but it's identical to what the Common Brythonic form would be. Either way, I think we need a code for it. --Victar (talk) 13:35, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think we differentiate between Common Brythonic and Proto-Brythonic . —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:46, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, right, I guess I can just use  for attested lemmas. I'll do that than, unless anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks. --Victar (talk) 13:58, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of it being attested. —CodeCat 13:59, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope,  only works for reconstructed lemmas. Artognou is attested, so whatever you want to call it. --Victar (talk) 14:01, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we could either (1) make cel-bry-pro usable for attested lemmas, the way gmq-pro is, or (2) we could call Artognou Old Cornish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:40, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like it's pre-Proto-Brythonic, because it preserves the theme vowel of the first part of the compound. It doesn't have the vowel of the second part anymore though. —CodeCat 14:45, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * 600 AD seems too late for pre-Proto-Brythonic. It could be that the intermediary thematic vowel was preserved in Proto-Brythonic/Common Brythonic names, like Germanic often does. I definitely don't think it should be called simply Old Cornish. --Victar (talk) 15:50, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * , so how can we make  usable for attested lemmas? --Victar (talk) 11:43, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * By removing  from its entry at Module:languages/datax, but I'd like wider consensus before I do that. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:55, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure about this entry. The text itself is in Latin, which points to it being British Latin rather than Brythonic itself, albeit with the name being borrowed from at least pre-syncope Brythonic. The dating doesn't really mean anything for its Brythonic-ness in that case, because we don't know when it was borrowed. The proper Proto-Brythonic form is probably, which can be deduced from Middle Welsh and Old Breton . Anglom (talk) 22:51, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Artognou could very well been actually pronounced, with *rt to *rθ and *og to *oɣ. I think there is a very good argument for at least an early stage of Proto-Brythonic retaining intermediary thematic vowel. The alternative is to say that Latin simply added these vowels on its own volition, which strikes me as improbable, especially since, from what I've seen, they all appear to match with the etymologically correct thematic vowel. Another theory is that these were letter-for-letter transliterations which retained the historical silent intermediary thematic vowel, but that also seems unlikely. --Victar (talk) 00:44, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think might be a good example of where the intermediary thematic vowel must have been retained, no? --Victar (talk) 02:25, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Latin didn't add the vowels, rather they borrowed the name before the vowels were lost. Also the name is probably inflected in its attestation, leading one to suppose the full name is *Artognouus. The name itself is Brythonic in origin, but the language it's attested in is British Latin, which survived until the 700s.
 * Not quite. The -s-/-h- left a hiatus which was usually filled with /j/ except when adjacent to -u-, where it gave /w/. So *Esugenos > *Ehugenos > *Ëugenos > *Ewuɣenos > *Euɣen; the original thematic vowel -u- is still lost and non-syllabic -w- becomes syllabic /u/. Loss of /ɣ/ then caused the syllabic -u- to become non-syllabic -w- in the daughter languages.
 * The Welsh forms listed on that page do however require *-ɣėn rather than *-ɣen, so we're actually looking at earlier *-ganyos, because earlier *-genis or *-genyos would have given *-ɣɨn instead. Anglom (talk) 01:23, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm glad we at least agree that Artognou is from a form of Brythonic that still retained thematic vowels! I obviously disagree that the name is written in Latin because 1. we have forms of Latinized PBry names and they look quite different, 2. this isn't your typical posthumous veneration, but rather graffiti, and as such, doesn't need to follow strict Latin inflections. Thanks for explaining . What about ? --Victar (talk) 17:06, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I forgot to mention, I think PBry lost the final thematic vowel long before losing intermediary thematic vowels (at least in proper nouns), so / possibly never existsed, but instead /. --Victar (talk) 17:29, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The medial -a- in *Karadọg isn't thematic and is also pretonic, so it doesn't suffer syncope as bad as thematic vowels do.
 * I'm not realhly sure what you're getting at. All forms of the name existed, because they follow a chronological path. But the stage of Brythonic we reconstruct has been affected by both apocope and syncope, so *Euɣėn is the only form that should appear. Anglom (talk) 19:04, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm saying personal names don't have to follow the predicted path normal nouns would. I think that if we are to reconstruct PBry personal names, they should retain the thematic value of the first element based on the evidence of names found both in Latin and known PBry attestations like Uindiorix. --Victar (talk) 20:56, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * But they do, as seen by the descendants listed in your entries which all show loss of thematic vowel. Proto-Brythonic is reconstructed strictly backwards from the three attested daughter languages. Anglom (talk) 02:35, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The attestations in Latin are a window into a period we don't have native attestations, especially graffiti. Whether we call one early PBry and the other late PBry is still up for debate, I guess. I do also maintain that names don't have to always be subject to all the changes spoken language is. --Victar (talk) 17:55, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * 🇨🇬 is an example of retention of the internal thematic vowel. I can't find the source for it, but it's said to be from the 10th c., so quite late. --Victar (talk) 04:53, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The thematic vowel should have been -o- though, which means the -a- has to be explained another way anyway. Anglom (talk) 06:59, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * So, what is to be done about this entry? Move it back to Reconstruction space or allow cel-bry-pro in the mainspace like Proto-Norse et al? - -sche (discuss) 14:05, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Would be a shame to call an attested name a reconstruction. --Victar (talk) 16:45, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Common Brittonic says, "No documents written in Common Brittonic have been found, but a few inscriptions have been identified. The Bath curse tablets, found in the Roman reservoir at Bath, Somerset, contain about 150 names, about half of which are undoubtedly Celtic (but not necessarily Brittonic). There is an inscription on a metal pendant discovered in 1979 in Bath, which seems to contain an ancient Brittonic curse: Adixoui Deuina Deieda Andagin Uindiorix cuamenai or maybe Adixoui Deiana Deieda Andagin Uindiorix cuamiinai." This suggests to me that Proto-Brythonic, like Proto-Norse, is attested (if only barely), so that cel-bry-pro could be allowed in the mainspace too. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:21, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Dating and definitions matter too. At what point does Proto-Celtic end and Proto-Brythonic start? Certainly, we seem to treat terms common to Brythonic and Goidelic as Proto-Celtic too, even though they possibly no longer appeared in the common ancestor to all Celtic languages. For Proto-Germanic, we treat terms attested only in West Germanic as valid Proto-Germanic terms, meaning that we consider Proto-West-Germanic to be a dialect of Proto-Germanic. So we could decide that the instriptions are still dialectal Proto-Celtic, too, instead of Proto-Brythonic. —CodeCat 19:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * We could, sure, but calling them Proto-Brythonic seems more careful—the more conservative approach—than calling them Proto-Celtic. If "Artognou" is from 600 AD, that's just 200 years before Old Welsh is attested, and 50 years after Wikipedia claims Welsh separated from Proto-Brythonic; it's contemporaneous with Primitive Irish (which pretty clearly isn't Proto-Celtic). If anything, it would probably be most accurate to call Artognou Proto-Southwestern Brythonic, but making a separate code for that, rather than treating is as a dialect of PBr, is probably splitting hairs. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:57, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * So we know, then, that the first o of this word disappeared in those 200 years? —CodeCat 21:12, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The changes from Primitive Irish and Old Irish are just as dramatic. --Victar (talk) 21:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Losing one vowel isn't particularly dramatic. I just wanted to be clear that no later Brythonic language attests any of these vowels. Because if they do, then we have to readjust our reconstructions. —CodeCat 21:29, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I've [//en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3Alanguages%2Fdatax&type=revision&diff=41357491&oldid=41353165 changed] it to allow entries in the mainspace. - -sche (discuss) 21:28, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I would just like to go on record as saying I am uncomfortable calling these entries Proto-Brythonic, merely because they do not show the Proto-Brythonic sound changes that characterize the language. Something like Early Brythonic/Brittonic or British Celtic would be a better description. Anglom (talk) 02:11, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I suppose it would be possible to separate reconstructed Proto-Brythonic from the barely attested language that Wikipedia calls (other possible names being Common Brythonic, Old Brythonic/Brittonic, and British), but I can't say I'm thrilled about the idea. Would you say the "Adixoui Deuina" quote given above shows the sound changes that characterize PBr.? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:47, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Not really, no. The word-final vowels show that it's before apocope and -nd- shows nasal assimilation hasn't happened yet. Anglom (talk) 00:24, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I'm still struggling how to enter PBry personal name entries with early Latin attestations. Are and  a possible way to go? --Victar (talk) 20:39, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think the Latin forms are not evidence of a Brythonic retaining Celtic desinences (in *Broxoβ̃aɣlos). Latin certainly could add its own endings to borrowed terms. — JohnC5 06:38, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I suppose my thought is, depending on the date of the sources, to reconstruct it as Early Brythonic, with Celtic desinences, in line with . --Victar (talk) 06:55, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * But maybe Celtic desinences where dropped from the time of (2nd-4th c.), to the period most of the sources I've found (5th-6th c.). --Victar (talk) 07:02, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * So other than that, what are your thoughts? --Victar (talk) 07:09, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Also . I'm not familiar enough with comparative Celtic chronology. — JohnC5 07:11, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I found a really great journal on the retention of the thematic vowel in the first element of PBry personal names: Old Welsh Dinacat, Cunedag, Tutagual: fossilised phonology in Brittonic personal names. To quote, "In absolute chronological terms the weakening and loss of composition vowels seems to have been completed by the latter part of the sixth century." So it is chronologically correct for to retain the -o-  and is not an archaism. --Victar (talk) 08:46, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * When exactly is our PBr supposed to represent? — JohnC5 17:20, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, I would imagine you want to reconstruct a form which is representative of all its known attestations. So, is more than likely a late PBr creation, and this should be reconstructed as such., however, is probably inherited straight from PCelt, and as such, has very early attestations; you wouldn't want to say  descends from . --Victar (talk) 20:45, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * , I think this point needs to be addressed as well, that when creating a reconstruction, it needs to be basis of the Latin forms as well. clearly has gone through PBr specific changes, so it is indeed descended from some form of PBr, be it early PBr, pre-PBr, or what-have-you. --Victar (talk) 17:28, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't. The Latin forms are borrowings, not descendants, let alone the fact that they were borrowed before the sound changes leading to Proto-Brythonic were complete. The Latin forms have no bearing whatsoever on Brythonic reconstructions, except to confirm them. Latin forms of British Celtic names can't even be used to reconstruct Brythonic terms at all if no Brythonic language attests it as well. Anglom (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Again, I'll have to respectfully disagree on this. To say one can't reconstruct lemmas from Latin borrowing makes absolutely no sense to me. --Victar (talk) 19:23, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure you understood the conclusion of the article: the author states that the thematic vowels had been lost phonologically, but were re-introduced in literature based on Latin forms of the same names borrowed earlier, which explains why the thematic vowels don't actually match what we would expect them to be if they were inherited. Anglom (talk) 04:47, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * That may be the case with much later forms. In the example I give above, the point I was making was, which is dated to 500-599 CE, falls still within the period that the -o- was only beginning to be weakened, but not yet lost. --Victar (talk) 14:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no point to that to argument however because that form of the name is only attested in British Latin, literally "PATERN[--] COLI AVI FICIT ARTOGNOU". The name was borrowed from British Celtic, but we only know it was borrowed before syncope, whether or not that stage was contemporary with the Latin attestation can't be proven by this attestation alone. Anglom (talk) 16:07, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, that's a different argument to the point I was making, and one we've discussed above, but I agree that we need more examples, which is what I've been working towards with adding new entries. --Victar (talk) 16:45, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I realize you're trying to provide examples of it, but honestly the only forms that maintain thematic vowels are Latin forms of Brythonic names or forms influenced by Latin renderings. Latin forms of British Celtic names are their own beast, really. Proto-Brythonic quite simply no longer maintained internal thematic vowels, even in inherited personal names, it was a regular sound change. Anglom (talk) 17:02, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, you're welcome to hold to your opinion on that, and I respect that, because I respect your work. I disagree though, and think the paper above, in particular the quote cited, along with a litany of examples given, if not point to the contrary, at least welcome the alternative. --Victar (talk) 17:20, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

@Angr, looking to reignite a 3 year old debate? -- 17:29, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Not especially. —Mahāgaja · talk 17:45, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Reflexes
A completely random comment, but I'd love a comparative table of Proto-Brythonic vowels and their reflexes in the Brythonic languages. Either here (the non-talk page) or on Wikipedia. —CodeCat 22:54, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Seconded. I'd like it to be here. :) — JohnC5 22:56, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I made a basic table now, using only the reflexes of the first/single syllable and not conditioned by consonants likely to alter them (like w or voiced fricatives). I just looked for words and wrote down the spelled reflex of the descendants. —CodeCat 23:28, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Are we also going to have PC-to-PB and PB-to-Brythonic languages tables for consonants? — JohnC5 20:20, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

 * It's looking fantastic so far, by the way! --Victar (talk) 20:33, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, this all looks awesome. — JohnC5 20:38, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

*j or *y
While we're reworking things, can we revisit the use of *j over *y? Was there some special logic behind it, because it seems odd that we go from *y in PCelt to *j in PBry to y in Breton, Cornish and Welsh ? --Victar (talk) 23:29, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Welsh uses i, as did Old Cornish. I don't know about Old Breton. —CodeCat 23:35, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * To judge from the forms at Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/jowank, Middle and Modern Breton and Middle and Modern Cornish use y. No Brythonic language uses j. What does the literature use? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:53, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Usually i̯ which is common among older IE literature, but newer works like Schrijver tend to use IPA characters for consonants. Anglom (talk) 02:16, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The logic is that we use ⟨j⟩ to transcribe /j/, I guess? Anglom (talk) 02:16, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if that's the only logic behind it, I vote that we change it to *y instead. Does anyone have any reason not to? --Victar (talk) 05:37, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason to do so? Anglom (talk) 13:26, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have particularly strong feelings, though I prefer j "just because" (I wish all languages used it). A real argument, though, is that the Brythonic languages generally use the letter y to stand for a vowel, and for us to use it differently might be confusing. Consider, for comparison, the situation with Slavic. —CodeCat 13:30, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe because PB has both a palatal glide j and a high front rounded vowel ü it's best if we avoid using the character y at all, since it could be ambiguous as to which of those sounds it's meant to represent. Granted, in practice you could probably usually tell from context, as in the conventional English transliteration of Russian:, but why take the chance? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:31, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Dual?
According to, Proto-Brythonic still had a dual form, which was characterised by i-affection in ā-stems. Should we include this in entries? How much of the dual remains in the Brythonic languages? —CodeCat 13:51, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Diacritics -- what is the phonetic value of ọ?
I'm not familiar with the under-dot notation in use here. Is this an alternative for the ? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:18, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes; ọ stands for /ɔ/. I would prefer to use ɔ in reconstructions, but I don't know if anyone else would. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:39, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * ɔ would be a bit harsh, I think. I have no idea where ọ comes from, but I would have expected ŏ instead, as in Latin dictionaries. --Victar (talk) 21:56, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * But ŏ implies a short vowel that contrasts with a long ō; PBr. didn't have distinctive vowel length. (And even if it still had noncontrastive vowel length, this vowel was probably rather long, since it comes from *ā and *au, i.e. a long vowel and a diphthong.) Another alternative is ǫ, as in Old Norse and commonly in Proto-Romance, but others object that it looks like a nasalized vowel (as in Proto-Germanic). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:37, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Right, but it isn't anything new to associate a short vowel with ɔ. --Victar (talk) 23:12, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * To clarify my understanding, under-dot is equivalent with lowered  or raised, and is thus smack-dab in between regular  and regular ?
 * Or, is under-dot instead even lower, and equivalent with regular ?
 * Once that is clarified, is under-dot contrastive with either  or ?  And how are these spelled in entries here?  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:19, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * is lower than . They are contrastive, because we wouldn't be able to reconstruct them otherwise. The comparative method reconstructs only contrasts. —CodeCat 23:22, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Is also higher than ?  Or are these equivalent?  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 16:52, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You're mixing Brythonic spelling with IPA now. —CodeCat 17:05, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. That is wholly intentional.  I'm trying to ascertain what the reconstructed Proto-Brythonic phonetic value is for the glyph .  Per your previous comment above, it appears that the phonetic value of the glyph  is lower than the phonetic value for the glyph .  I infer that the glyph  is intended to represent something close to the phonetic value .  It is still not clear to me what the phonetic value is supposed to be for the glyph, only that it is presumably lower than.
 * Ultimately, the outcome of this discussion should probably be included somewhere in the About Proto-Brythonic page itself. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:30, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The phonetic value may not be reconstructable, nor even relevant. Since we know that ⟨ọ⟩ developed from Proto-Celtic ⟨ā⟩, it is reasonable to think that it's lower than ⟨o⟩, but that's absolutely not a necessity. What we do know is that they were distinct as phonemes. —CodeCat 17:44, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Just strange Welsh
, as I try out more and more sentences, it seems increasingly that Proto-Brythonic is basically odd-sounding Welsh. I've not seen a single form that's radically different from Old Welsh. Indeed, "Is ti βɨw?" is practically identical to Old Welsh "Is ti'n fyw" (which is very different from the modern "Wyt ti'n fyw"). Are there any big differences? UtherPendrogn (talk) 22:06, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * That's the point though. The farther back in time you go the closer they are until they reach one language, which we've reconstructed as Proto-Brythonic. Anglom (talk) 00:40, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, that makes sense. But I still feel like, orally, a Welshman would have no trouble listening to the Proto-Brythonic, whereas a Breton or Cornishman might. Especially if word order is the same, and some things (vowel + yn contracted as vowel'n) are the same.
 * By the way, would there be any interest in reconstructing the intermediary between Proto-Celtic and Proto-Brythonic? Some entries of PB have "from earlier x", which is so radically different (and shows interesting changes) that it might warrant its own language code and lemmas. UtherPendrogn (talk) 08:29, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

ɛ
. Why is e sometimes e and sometimes ɛ? Neither length nor quality seem to correspond to stress, position, openness, proximity to a palatal, velar, liquid, resonant, nor the PIE or Proto-Celtic form of the vowel. In fact it appears to be absolutely random and often has nothing to do with the reflexes' pronunciation. So what determines it? 2A01:E35:8A85:7E40:84A9:43FC:689:E26B 15:44, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * See the main page, which shows the reflexes. —Rua (mew) 15:48, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Earlier words I used /e/ in IPA, because my sources at the time led to me believe that's what it was, but a newer work which more or less became my bible used /ɛ/ so I used that instead in newer pages. All vowels were short except when stressed and not blocked by a long consonant or cluster, so far as I know. Anglom (talk) 16:49, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Is that an inclusive and? As in vowels that are blocked yet stressed are still short? 2A01:E35:8A85:7E40:84A9:43FC:689:E26B 17:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. Anglom (talk) 01:54, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Verb Conjugations, Tenses ect
Hi everyone, I've been learning a lot about constructing PBR in the recent months, but I am utterly, completely, and totally stumped with regards to the verbs. One of my main confusions lies with how many and which tenses and moods it possessed. I've noticed there's a non-finite heading in the conjugation tables, but with nothing below it - and also, that both literary Welsh and Breton possess the conditional mood, though Welsh has merged it with the imperative and subjunctive imperfect, Breton has it preserved in both present and imperfect tenses. Does this imply Breton has carried on something from PBR that Welsh has lost? Or has it gained such a distinct mood from the French influence? I also noticed it has a future tense in the indicative - once again, is it simply something Welsh has lost, or is it from French? How are we to tell? Also, the merger of the Welsh imperfect tenses from both the subjunctive and indicative moods is causing me issues when re-constructing verbs, is there a way to tell which parts of the verb come from which? Would comparison with Irish help perhaps? The lack of a subjunctive in Breton is also difficult, because I have nothing to compare the Welsh to - I've been somewhat reluctant to use Cornish so far as a reference, as it's essentially a re-constructed language itself, with vocabulary, grammar, and spelling taken from various periods throughout its history. Is it wise to be cautious with regards to Cornish?

Sorry, so many questions, I know, but hopefully we can work some of the answers out here.

On another note, I was playing around with for a while today, and I had a go at trying to re-build the indicative imperfect from Welsh and Breton, comparing it to the patterns we already have established in PBR. Now I haven't yet compared it to Proto-Celtic, but this is what I came up with:

 * 1sg: *prɨnun? = prynwn, prenen - Welsh w equates to PBR u, which doesn't match the origins of Breton e. So I'm not too sure on this either.
 * 2sg *prɨnɨð? = prynit, prenes - the endings for the second person don't quite match, which is common in both the present (pryni, prenez), and the preterite (prynaist, prenjout), so I decided to follow the pattern (*prɨnað, *prɨnėssɨð) that appears to exist in PBR and re-construct a ð ending. This one I'm not so confident in, naturally.
 * 3sg *prɨnė? = prynai, prene - have re-constructed ė as the ending, because Welsh stressed ai came from ė or ei, and Breton e's origins overlap only with ė.
 * 0sg *prɨnɨd? = prynid, prened(?) - not sure whether this is the impersonal plural or conjunct singular, as Welsh and Breton only inherited one form of impersonal per tense, however, they seem to have inherited the singular form from both indicative present and preterite, so my guess is they would have inherited the singular form from the imperfect too.
 * 1pl *prɨne/ėmm? = prynem, prenemp - this one seems to follow the mm pattern you see in the present and preterite (*prɨnamm, *prɨnassomm). Breton has a habit of adding a p after what was once a double m. French influence maybe?
 * 2pl *prɨne/ėd? = prynech, prenec’h - like the equivalents in the preterite and present, both Welsh and Breton seem to have turned the final d into a PBR h or x. So I'm using the pattern from PBR (*prɨnad, *prɨnassed) to re-construct a d ending for this word too.
 * 3pl *prɨne/ėnt? = prynent, prenent - this follows the nt pattern (*prɨnant, *prɨnassont). It's nice when words do what you expect them to.
 * 0pl *? = ? - I have no idea what the reconstruction for this part of the verb would be.

I've likely done a lot of things incorrectly, I know, please do tell me where I've gone wrong.

On a totally different note, the Wikipedia page "Brittonic Languages" has a chart of how consonants have been inherited from Celtic through PBR to the modern day, much like we already have on the about page for vowels. I think it would be beneficial to have such a chart here to accompany the one for vowels.

Reconstruction tag
Seems that most pages lack this tag. We'll continue working on it. Kwékwlos (talk) 09:19, 24 September 2018 (UTC) Can anyone listen? Kwékwlos (talk) 04:33, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Namespace
There is a serious issue with Category:Proto-Brythonic lemmas. Under "Recent additions to the category" and "Oldest pages ordered by last edit", it always lists the same two articles. Why? These two articles, unlike all the others in the category, ar placed in the main namespace, rather than the "Reconstruction" namespace (for terms that ar not attested, but ar reconstructed based on various evidence; for e.g. Proto-Indo-European or Proto-Celtic). This is annoying to me because, as someone who is fascinated with reconstructed languages, i like to look at the lists of reconstructed lemmas, and i like to follow what new lemmas ar added. However, i can't really follow that if it doesn't giv me an honest answer to what new new lemmas hav been added. Therefor i strongly recommend that we be consistent and place all members of Category:Proto-Brythonic lemmas in the Reconstruction namespace. Also, that is more appropriate, because Proto-Brythonic (PB) is, indeed, unattested; the PB era ended about AD 500-600, while the earliest attested Welsh isn't til ~800.

Btw, there should also be a Wiktionary Category titled "Reconstructed lemmas", for all reconstructed lemmas. Said category would hav as a subcategory, Category:Reconstructed terms by language (which includes e.g. Category:Latin reconstructed terms or Category:Old English reconstructed terms).--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 02:06, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Fortis l and r

 * It occurs to me that if Proto-Brythonic has already lost final syllables (e.g., not ), then it must have had a fortis that developed into Welsh , since the distribution of the latter is determined by the presence vs. absence of a preceding vowel before the loss of final syllables, e.g.  >  vs.  > . The contrast between  and /l/ and between  and /r/ must have then been lost in Southwestern Brythonic, rather than arising in Welsh alone. For transcription we could use / or / (personally I'd prefer the latter). —Mahāgaja · talk 19:56, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, I see we're already using / word-internally, so we could use that notation too, but it needs to be written word-initally as well. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:02, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
 * By context, it will always be fortis word-initially. I eventually adapted ̆r, l̆, n̆ in my own transcriptions to denote lenis r, l, n, since Celtic lenis consonants were originally short or half-long, but by that time I'd already made too many entries for it to be an easy transition. Anglom (talk) 03:17, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, forms in isolation will always be fortis word-initially, but I still think it's worth marking them as such to remove ambiguity. I don't really like ̆r, l̆, n̆ for the lenis forms (and Proto-Brythonic does seem to have merged fortis and lenis /n/ word-initially anyway). I think the easiest solution would be to just move thinks like to, but I'm open to other options. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:33, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * In the absence of further discussion, I'm going to start implementing this. I'll leave hard redirects from the old spellings. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:18, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Innaccuracies in 'Nouns' section and proto-Brythonic origin of Welsh 'oe'
It looks as though there are some Welsh plurals in the Nouns section that aren't correct. from what I see now: Are these entries using older instances of these words (maybe from Middle Welsh)? --Olster21 (talk) 20:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * tiredd should be tiroedd, and *moredd should be moroedd
 * hyntau should be hyntiau (maybe this entry should be changed to avoid the irregular -iau plural, perhaps to PCel *genus/*genowes, PBry *gen/*genow, Welsh gên/genau of the same declension pattern)

On the topic of the -oedd plural in Modern Welsh, what changes turns pCel short *e/*i into welsh 'oe'? For example, in -oedd and words such as Welsh troed < PCel *tregess and Welsh ddoe < PCel *desi.
 * Indeed, and  and Early Modern  are found alongside the modern plurals. I don't know the exact development by which *-eɣ- and *-ey- (< *-es-) become oe, but it's probably similar to the change of  to  or  to  (formerly pronounced ). —Mahāgaja · talk 19:41, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

 * @Mahagaja Thank you, that's quite helpful. Do you think that the Modern Welsh forms should be edited in? Also, you're completely right about that origin for 'oe', accounts for 'troed' (<*tregess) and 'ddoe' (<*desi).
 * I'm a bit confused about the -yo and -yā declensions shown in the Nouns section to: they're lacking representations on the tables, and they also don't seem to have much distinguishing them from -o and -ā nouns. The plural endings are sort of all over the place in Modern Welsh ('bugail/bugeiliaid', 'craidd, creiddiau', 'mynydd/mynyddoedd'). Is there a word that you think can be used as an example for these patterns? Olster21 (talk) 20:35, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The plural endings are all over the place because the original plural ending would have resulted in a form identical to the singular: would have given,  would have given , and so on, so all these nouns got new plural endings from other sources. The only way you can tell they aren't simple o- and ā-stems is the internal i-affection of the vowel. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:56, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary talk:About Proto-Brythonic


text:
מצץ

Etymology
Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to suck
 * 2) * אפרת גוש, שיהיה לך טוב
 * "he"

- אני רוצה שיהיה לך בית, שתהיה לך אישה, שבוכה ומוצצת ומוצצת ובוכה, שתהיה דיכאונית ותהיה עשירה, שתבגוד ותפחד לחזור חזרה.

title: מצץ


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/poɨθ

Etymology
From earlier Brittonic, from , from.

Adjective

 * 1) cooked, hot

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/poɨθ


text:
포켓

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) pocket

title: 포켓


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llɨdan

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) broad, wide

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/llɨdan


text:
liikenteenjakaja

Noun

 * 1) traffic island raised area in a roadway or traffic circle, bordered by curbs, used to control traffic
 * 2) traffic sign that directs the drivers to keep on either side of the sign

title: liikenteenjakaja


text: liikenteen

title: liikenteen


text: liikenteessä

title: liikenteessä


text: liikenteellä

title: liikenteellä


text: liikenteenä

title: liikenteenä


text: liikenteettä

title: liikenteettä


text: liikenteestä

title: liikenteestä


text: liikenteeseen

title: liikenteeseen


text: liikenteeltä

title: liikenteeltä


text: liikenteelle

title: liikenteelle


text: liikenteeksi

title: liikenteeksi


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/ki

Etymology
From, from.

Noun

 * 1)  dog

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/ki


text:
Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/kɨnthaβ̃

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * : first

title: Reconstruction:Proto-Brythonic/kɨnthaβ̃


text:
奇遇

Noun

 * 1) happy encounter, fortuitous meeting, adventure

Noun

 * 1) unexpected meeting, fortuitous encounter

title: 奇遇


text: Category:Japanese terms spelled with 鵆

title: Category:Japanese terms spelled with 鵆


text: Dreien

title: Dreien


text: Rössern

title: Rössern


text: Biestern

title: Biestern


text:
murder one's darlings

Etymology
Possibly first used by (1863–1944) during a series of lectures at the University of Cambridge, later published in book form.

title: murder one's darlings


text: còuhe

title: còuhe


text: doodying

title: doodying


text: doodied

title: doodied


text:
thesis statement

Noun

 * 1) A sentence in the introduction of an essay, thesis or academic paper that clarifies the main point of the text.

Translations

 * Chinese:
 * Mandarin: 中心句, 論點陳述, 命題句
 * Finnish: avaintulosten esittely
 * Hungarian: tételmondat
 * Russian:

title: thesis statement


text: thesis statements

title: thesis statements


text: taxable incomes

title: taxable incomes


text:
doodie up

Verb

 * 1)  To decorate or dress in a fancy way in order to make attractive.

title: doodie up


text: easy marks

title: easy marks


text: doodies up

title: doodies up


text: doodying up

title: doodying up


text: doodied up

title: doodied up


text: debacchates

title: debacchates


text: debacchating

title: debacchating


text: debacchated

title: debacchated


text: Büschen

title: Büschen


text:
doodie head

Noun

 * 1)  Shithead.

title: doodie head


text: doodie heads

title: doodie heads


text:
Talk:Kasus

Pl. Kasusse
-03:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Nadine Schmahl: Das Tetragramm als Sprachfigur. Hermeneutische Untersuchungen zur Theologie 55, Mohr Siebeck, 2009, p.157&212 (attributed to Rosenzweig as a characterisation of "Digrammaton"): "Es wäre also eine jener Interjektionen, einer jener Urschreie aus denen die Sprache entstanden sein muß: Wort im Urstand der Begegnung, noch vor der Vergegenständlichung, reiner Vokativ vor aller Möglichkeit anderer Kasusse."
 * Sebastian Kürschner: Deklinationsklassen-Wandel: Eine diachron-kontrastive Studie zur Entwicklung der Pluralallomorphie im Deutschen, Niederländischen, Schwedischen und Dänischen, Walter de Gruyter, 2008, p.322: "In der linguistischen Fachsprache nicht ausgebildete Sprecher verwenden manchmal auch Genusse, Kasusse und Numersusse -- oder Geni und Kasi."
 * "Actes du IVe congrès international des sciences anthropologiques et ethnologiques, Vienne, 1-8 septembre 1952, Band 3 -- A. Holzhausens Nfg., 1956" ([books.google.de/books?id=06S0AAAAIAAJ]), p.210: "Wenn ich gesagt habe, daß [...], dann betrifft dies zumal die Bildung und den Ausdruck der nominalen Kasusse [...]"
 * "Anthropos -- Zaunrith'sche Buch-, Kunst- und Steindruckerei, 1920" ([books.google.de/books?id=p1E4AQAAMAAJ]), p.251: "Die Kasusse können wir für jede Sprache in direkte und indirekte unterscheiden; erste umfassen Nominativ, Akkusativ, Vokativ; zu den letzteren gehören Genitiv und Dativ."

title: Talk:Kasus


text: 黄金分割

title: 黄金分割


text:
黃金分割

Noun

 * 1)  golden ratio
 * 2)  golden section

title: 黃金分割


text: allochthons

title: allochthons


text:
sinner's prayer

Noun

 * 1)  A prayer of repentance sometimes spoken by those wishing to convert to Christianity.

title: sinner's prayer


text:
ставати

Etymology
.

Verb

 * 1)  to become

title: ставати


text: Cainozoic

title: Cainozoic


text:
скорочувати

Etymology
From the stem of.

Verb

 * 1) to abbreviate, to abridge, to shorten
 * 2)  to contract

title: скорочувати


text:
скоротити

Verb

 * 1) to abbreviate, to abridge, to shorten
 * 2)  to contract

title: скоротити


text:
поглинати

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to absorb

title: поглинати


text:
поглинути

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to absorb

title: поглинути


text:
досягти

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to achieve, to attain, to reach

title: досягти


text:
допомогти

Etymology
From. Compare 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to help, to assist

title: допомогти


text:
террористический

Adjective

 * 1) terrorist

title: террористический


text:
запевняти

Etymology
From. Compare 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to assure, to convince, to persuade, to reassure

title: запевняти


text:
запевнити

Etymology
From. Compare 🇨🇬.

Verb

 * 1) to assure, to convince, to persuade, to reassure

title: запевнити


text:
виртуальный

Adjective

 * 1) virtual

title: виртуальный


text:
allochthone

Noun

 * 1) Inhabitants of a country with an ethnic background in another country, particularly people of Middle Eastern background living in Europe.
 * 2) An animal species that lives only part of its life in a particular habitat.
 * 1) Inhabitants of a country with an ethnic background in another country, particularly people of Middle Eastern background living in Europe.
 * 2) An animal species that lives only part of its life in a particular habitat.
 * 1) Inhabitants of a country with an ethnic background in another country, particularly people of Middle Eastern background living in Europe.
 * 2) An animal species that lives only part of its life in a particular habitat.
 * 1) An animal species that lives only part of its life in a particular habitat.
 * 1) An animal species that lives only part of its life in a particular habitat.
 * 1) An animal species that lives only part of its life in a particular habitat.

title: allochthone


text:
подчас

Etymology
Compare 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, and 🇨🇬.

Adverb

 * 1) at times, sometimes

title: подчас


text: allochthones

title: allochthones


text:
reptabundus

Adjective

 * 1) creeping, crawling

title: reptabundus


text:
rimabundus

Adjective

 * 1)  examining, considering

title: rimabundus


text:
комментировать

Etymology
Perhaps from + ; see also.

Verb

 * 1) to comment various senses
 * 2) to comment, to comment out (computer code)
 * 1) to comment, to comment out (computer code)

title: комментировать


text: соленый

title: соленый


text:
алюминиевый

Adjective

 * 1)  aluminium/aluminum metal

title: алюминиевый


text:
ructabundus

Adjective

 * 1) belching repeatedly

title: ructabundus


text:
провинциальный

Adjective

 * 1) provincial

title: провинциальный


text:
πρωτάθλημα

Noun

 * 1)  championship

title: πρωτάθλημα


text:
saltabundus

Adjective

 * 1)  dancing

title: saltabundus


text:
географический

Adjective

 * 1) geographical

title: географический


text:
salutabundus

Adjective

 * 1)  greeting, saluting

title: salutabundus


text:
sitibundus

Adjective

 * 1)  thirsty

title: sitibundus


text:
классика

Etymology
Borrowed from, from , from.

Noun

 * 1) classic artistic work of lasting worth

Noun

 * 1) classic lasting work, classical music

title: классика


text:
cú pháp

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) syntax

title: cú pháp


text:
минеральный

Adjective

 * 1)  mineral
 * 2) full of minerals
 * 1) full of minerals
 * 1) full of minerals

title: минеральный


text:
speculabundus

Adjective

 * 1) on the lookout, on the watch; watching for any thing

title: speculabundus


text: пестрый

title: пестрый


text:
derivoituva

Adjective

 * 1)  differentiable, well-behaved having a finite derivative of all orders at all points, and having no discontinuities

title: derivoituva


text:
стабильный

Adjective

 * 1) stable, steady, constant

title: стабильный


text:
spumabundus

Adjective

 * 1) foaming, frothing

title: spumabundus


text: Jacob's staffs

title: Jacob's staffs


text:
гуманитарный

Adjective

 * 1) humanitarian

title: гуманитарный


text:
stomachabundus

Adjective

 * 1) pettish, angry, stomachy

title: stomachabundus


text:
sudabundus

Adjective

 * 1) sweating

title: sudabundus


text:
валютный

Adjective

 * 1)  currency; monetary

title: валютный


text:
false note

Noun

 * 1)  An incorrect note which is sung or played in a musical performance.
 * 2)  In a remark or narrative, an indication (as discerned by the listener or reader) of untruth, insincerity, or inconsistency.
 * 3)  In a non-verbal display or presentation, an indication of incongruity or inappropriateness.
 * 1)  In a remark or narrative, an indication (as discerned by the listener or reader) of untruth, insincerity, or inconsistency.
 * 2)  In a non-verbal display or presentation, an indication of incongruity or inappropriateness.
 * 1)  In a non-verbal display or presentation, an indication of incongruity or inappropriateness.
 * 1)  In a non-verbal display or presentation, an indication of incongruity or inappropriateness.
 * 1)  In a non-verbal display or presentation, an indication of incongruity or inappropriateness.

title: false note


text: false notes

title: false notes


text:
tentabundus

Adjective

 * 1) trying, making attempts
 * 2) trying here and there

title: tentabundus


text:
командующий

Noun

 * 1) commander

title: командующий


text:
откуда-то

Adverb

 * 1) from somewhere, somewhence

title: откуда-то


text: temptabundus

title: temptabundus


text:
преимущественно

Adverb

 * 1) predominantly in a predominant manner
 * 2) mostly

title: преимущественно


text:
характеризовать

Verb

 * 1) to characterize
 * 2) to describe
 * 3) to be typical of

Conjugation
imperfective

perfective

title: характеризовать


text: Template:R:ka:Vogt

title: Template:R:ka:Vogt


text: tuburchinabundus

title: tuburchinabundus


text:
tuburcinabundus

Adjective

 * 1) greedily eating  devouring, gobbling

title: tuburcinabundus


text:
undabundus

Adjective

 * 1) full of waves, surging, billowy

title: undabundus


text:
vastabundus

Adjective

 * 1) wasting, desolating, devastating

title: vastabundus


text:
venerabundus

Adjective

 * 1) venerating, revering, reverential

title: venerabundus


text:
đồng nghĩa

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1) synonymous

title: đồng nghĩa


text:
cioarã

Etymology
. Possibly a substratum word of Dacian and ultimately Indo-European origin, related to, or borrowed from it; compare Daco-Romanian. Also seemingly related to several Italian dialect cognates, compare Friulian çore, Calabrian ciola, Neapolitan, Tarentino.

Noun

 * 1) crow

title: cioarã


text:
ventilabundus

Adjective

 * 1) swinging to and fro, wavering

title: ventilabundus


text:
verberabundus

Adjective

 * 1) whipping, flogging

title: verberabundus


text:
versabundus

Adjective

 * 1) turning around, revolving

title: versabundus


text:
Talk:catfishing

How can the term "catfish" be derived from a film called "Catfish" about catfishing? I.e. why would they call the film that if the term didn't already exist? 74.4.67.136 05:59, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

 * The film can be about the idea or concept of catfishing, even if there wasn't a word for it yet. Equinox ◑ 00:04, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This is probably the wrong entry for this discussion, as this is the entry specifically for the word "catfishing", in Wiktionary, the free online dictionary.
 * This discussion is about the origin and background of the slang term "catfishing", which is the social activity of deceiving others on social media through the use of a false persona, which is found in Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing.
 * The Wikipedia entry contains the historical background of the term, why the term was appropriate in describing what the mans wife where it was first used (in the movie "Catfish") was doing, as well as explaining the historical reference to a use of catfish which began in fiction writing but was thought to be true by some who read it, and helped to spread the myth that the term "catfishing" refers to and was named after.
 * Read the Wikipedia article, and most likely all your questions will be answered... Gmeades (talk) 07:57, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * While this entry has been updated to finally include the two entirely different definitions of the word (previously only having the slang usage), the usage of the term "catfishing" is still unclear and difficult for someone unfamiliar with the term to understand on it's Wikipedia page. This is because still, nowhere is it stated that the first entry (referred to as "Etymology 1"), is the "literal" use of the word, and what it referred to the innocent persons mind, outside of its more obscure and hidden usage, being literally fishing for catfish, as is done commonly in the southern states of the US; while the 2nd entry (referred to as "etymology 2") nowhere indicates that this is the "slang" usage of the term, the arcane usage of the term, a colloquialism understood only by those who are familiar with the sexual reference, and being a reference to "deceiving another through a false persona, commonly being a false sexual identity" [my words] that was added to it's original meaning.
 * The original definitions and corrections which had been added to clarify this, and were subsequently removed due to someones lack of understanding of what a "definition" actually is; what a word's definition is intended to make clear; and a misunderstanding that the difference in usage that had been pointed out were merely "gerunds", amounting to nothing more than syntax and semantics, included in the very clear distinction that had been made, as good and proper definitions should do not exist and have not been incorporated into the new updated entry for this term on the Wikipedia page.
 * The clarity and distinction between entry 1 and entry 2 (which are now categorized merely as different "etymology", rather than definitions), fails to make the distinction that had previously been clearly pointed out, and so the person unfamiliar with these terms has no idea that one is a literal definition of what the word denotes, while the other is a corruption of the term, subverted for a different purpose and different meaning, and connoting something that the literal usage never did nor was intended to... and because this distinction is not clearly stated (i.e. with "lit. usage", and "slang" noted for the each definition appropriately), the person unfamiliar with these terms leaves the page with no awareness of this being the case, and is no more educated, informed, or aware of how the term is used in language in two entirely different contexts and must do further research into the terms actual etymology (i.e. "background") to gain this understanding.
 * While I understand the resistance to simply state that there are two different definitions of the word, since the individual doing the deleting, the revising, and basically commandeering the site seems to have an affinity for grammatical functions, and doesn't understand the difference between a definition, a gerund, and an etymology; and refusing to allow anyone else to add any clarity to any entry without his explicit approval and consent; it is still hard to comprehend how something so basic as indicating that a words definition is either a words literal meaning, or it's slang usage in order to provide a very quick and accurate understanding of the words actual usage and functioning within the English language, is rather hard to understand.
 * There is a basic understanding of the difference between a words "denotation" and a words "connotation" that is lacking in the individual who has taken over as the ruler of the site, and has made it impossible for anyone else to improve, clarify, or add missing information, regardless of how basic and essential that information may be.
 * When a word is known to have multiple meanings,it is important to make a distinction within the words "definition" (such as the word "run" with all of it's various connotations and the meaning that it is intended to impart within it's "literal" usage. It is also important for any uses of the word to be identified as being "slang" usage of the word, within it's definition, although both may share a **common etymology**. A words slang usage is not considered "etymology" normally, but simply how some group of individuals have redefined the word for their purposes, often being arcane in meaning to others outside of their group, but the slang usage not being considered to be part of the words actual "etymology" as etymology has in the past been defined to be the actual words origin, and did not refer to its subversion, or its slang usage, as appropriated by groups along the way.
 * Slang tends to go in an out of fashion. Someone who is familiar with a words "slang" usage as being a words meaning (e.g. "groovy") simply fades in time and is no longer recognized, understood, or used and is considered "dated" once it has gone out of favor. That is not a words "etymology", that is "slang", and it's usage only lasts for a short period of time, often being unknown by the majority of individuals within a society, whereas a words "etymology", it's actual meaning, based on it's component parts (e.g. "re-imagine") and language it is derived from, is constant, does not go out of favor, and is never used as "slang".
 * These are very simple things that should be present in any good dictionary, and would would provide the clarity which is sought for those who desire to gain an understanding of this, and other, terms, here on "Wikipedia - The Online Dictionary", who's purpose is to provide definitions, understanding, distinctions, and clarity for individuals of how words and terms are used; but I dare not attempt to alter what the person who has assumed personal authority over the site and all of it's entries had himself written, despite it's vagueness, inaccuracy, and inability to convey clarity to any individual visiting the site, and instead places them in a position of having to do further research into a words background in order to finally be able to understand that one entry (incorrectly referred to as an "etymology") is the words literal usage, and the other entry (which should be a 2nd "definition"), yet is referred to, as well, as another "etymology", which is not possible, as words cannot have two different etymologies were one to have a clear understanding of what a words "etymology" actually refers to, rather than an inaccurate and distorted understanding of it), requiring the visitor to do further research in order to comprehend why the difference of "etymology", what it's appropriate usage in conversation actually is, etc. instead of being able to grasp the difference in usage at one glance on the Wikipedia page for that word.
 * This commandeering of the website is why so many people view Wikipedia as a poor source of reference, refuse to use it, and disparage others who rely on it as a source of information, since the information is not always accurate, is sometimes skewed, and not uncommonly is missing basic information that leads to misunderstanding and misuse of terms simply because improvements, corrections, and edits which would provide clarity which is currently missing, is not allowed by those who themselves have a lack of awareness and understanding, and who insist on protecting their efforts, and disparaging and deleting the efforts of others.
 * So, all I can do, it seems, is to attempt to provide this basic background and understanding of the difference between these things - a words definition; a words actual etymology; what a "gerund" actually is; what the difference is between a words literal denotation and it's connotation; the difference between a words literal usage and its slang usage, and why these need to be identified as part of a words definition (not "etymology"); why a words slang usage (it's appropriation as "slang") is not a separate "etymology" of the word since it does not change any of the words component parts; how slang goes in and out of favor with time while the literal usage does not; etc. and hope some understanding is gained by this individual, and that they will be able to see at some point that there are some additions, corrections, improvements that they had previously been unaware of that are still needing to be made for this entry before it is accurate, useful, and clear so the visitor has have a good and clear understanding of the word and how it is used in different circumstances with the glance of the page, as any good dictionary should do, and leave any further research into the words history or appropriation as slang, as optional, should they individually choose to do so. Gmeades (talk) 07:47, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Gmeades, I think a large part of the confusion is due to the fact that you are supposed to click through to the catfish entry, where it explains in greater detail the difference between the various senses of the word. catfishing is just a "form" entry that points to a lemma entry, like how various conjugations of Latin verbs (e.g., amamus) point to the main entry for the verb. That entry does have labels like and  to indicate that it is only used in certain contexts. As for the point about etymology: it could be folded into the same etymology section and just listed as a separate sense, but I would oppose that change, since the explanation of the term's origin is good to have (and the semantic development is not at all obvious unless you are aware of that movie already).
 * I started a related discussion: Beer_parlour. Feel free to chime in. 70.172.194.25 07:58, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:catfishing


text:
vibrabundus

Adjective

 * 1) tremulous, glimmering

title: vibrabundus


text:
tarvitsetteko

Verb

 * 1)  ("Do you need?").

title: tarvitsetteko


text:
Rhymes:German/oːt

Five syllables
de:Reim:Deutsch:-oːt

title: Rhymes:German/oːt


text:
otiabundus

Adjective

 * 1)  having  enjoying leisure, celebrating a holiday

title: otiabundus


text:
sciopero bianco

Etymology
lit. 'white strike'.

Noun

 * 1) work-to-rule labor protest in which the minimum work is carried out

title: sciopero bianco


text:
parturibundus

Adjective

 * 1) in labor, giving birth

title: parturibundus


text:
pavibundus

Adjective

 * 1) fearful, anxious

title: pavibundus


text:
peregrinabundus

Adjective

 * 1) traveling about

title: peregrinabundus


text:
sciopero articolato

Noun

 * 1) a series of strikes accompanied by bargaining

title: sciopero articolato


text:
sciopero a catena

Noun

 * 1) a chain of strikes affecting different departments of the same organization

title: sciopero a catena


text:
đơn vị

Etymology
, misreading of đan vị. Borrowed from, from.

Noun

 * 1) unit part of whole
 * 2) unit organisation, establishment, enterprise, place of employment, administrative unit, etc.
 * 1) unit organisation, establishment, enterprise, place of employment, administrative unit, etc.

title: đơn vị


text:
sciopero generale

Noun

 * 1) general strike

title: sciopero generale


text:
mạo hiểm

Etymology
.

Verb

 * 1) to take risk

title: mạo hiểm


text:
sciopero a oltranza

Noun

 * 1) a prolonged strike extended until the demands are fully met

title: sciopero a oltranza


text:
periclitabundus

Adjective

 * 1)  trying, testing, making a trial or essay

title: periclitabundus


text:
sciopero a scacchiera

Noun

 * 1) a series of strikes in different departments of an organization organized on a rota

title: sciopero a scacchiera


text:
sciopero a singhiozzo

Noun

 * 1) a prolonged strike interrupted by short periods of work

title: sciopero a singhiozzo


text:
coarnã

Etymology
From, plural of , , reinterpreted as a feminine singular. Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun
(plural coarni/coarne)

 * 1) cornelian cherry, cornel (fruit)

title: coarnã


text:
sciopero di solidarietà

Noun

 * 1) a secondary strike, by workers not affected by the primary dispute, to show solidarity with colleagues

title: sciopero di solidarietà


text:
sciopero selvaggio

Noun

 * 1) wildcat strike

title: sciopero selvaggio


text:
populabundus

Adjective

 * 1) laying waste, ravaging

title: populabundus


text:
avverabilità

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) realizability (possibility that something will happen)

title: avverabilità


text:
avveramento

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) fulfillment

title: avveramento


text:
praedabundus

Adjective

 * 1) ravaging, pillaging, plundering

title: praedabundus


text:
avversatore

Adjective

 * 1) opposing, adverse

title: avversatore


text:
avversiere

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) adversary

title: avversiere


text:
precabundus

Adjective

 * 1)  entreating, beseeching

title: precabundus


text:
avvertitamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) wisely, shrewdly
 * 2) deliberately

title: avvertitamente


text:
avvezzamento

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) habit, custom

title: avvezzamento


text:
avvicendabile

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) alternatable

title: avvicendabile


text:
نړۍ

Noun

 * 1) world
 * 2) worlds

title: نړۍ


text: avvilitivo

title: avvilitivo


text:
avviluppatura

Etymology
From.

title: avviluppatura


text:
avvisatamente

Etymology
From.

Adverb

 * 1) wisely, shrewdly
 * 2) purposely

title: avvisatamente


text: Category:Japanese terms spelled with 鉢 read as はち


text:
avvitatura

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) screwing

title: avvitatura


text:
avviticchiamento

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) twisting

title: avviticchiamento


text:
avvivamento

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) animation, enlivening
 * 2) rekindling

title: avvivamento


text:
avvocateria

Noun

 * 1) artifice
 * 2) chicanery (as practiced by a dodgy lawyer)
 * 3) lawyers (as a group)

title: avvocateria


text:
avvocaticchio

Noun

 * 1) a quibbling lawyer

title: avvocaticchio


text: axeroftolo

title: axeroftolo


text:
ubeskyttet

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) unprotected

title: ubeskyttet


text:
aziendalese

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) company executive

title: aziendalese


text:
aziendalismo

Noun

 * 1) a surpassing interest in the company that one works for

title: aziendalismo


text:
User talk:80.133.122.112

"Indefinite adjective/pronoun" is not one of our permitted section names. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:34, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:80.133.122.112


text: Category:Japanese terms spelled with 塀 read as へい


text:
aziliano

Adjective

 * 1) Azilian

Noun

 * 1) Azilian

title: aziliano


text: αδικιέμαι

title: αδικιέμαι


text: azimo

title: azimo


text: Category:Arabic terms suffixed with ون

title: Category:Arabic terms suffixed with ون


text: azotante

title: azotante


text: azotiamo

title: azotiamo


text: azotano

title: azotano


text: azotavo

title: azotavo


text: azotavi

title: azotavi


text: azotavamo

title: azotavamo


text: azotavate

title: azotavate


text: azotavano

title: azotavano


text: azotasti

title: azotasti


text: azotò

title: azotò


text: azotammo

title: azotammo


text: azotarono

title: azotarono


text: azoterò

title: azoterò


text: azoterai

title: azoterai


text: azoterà

title: azoterà


text: azoteremo

title: azoteremo


text: azoterete

title: azoterete


text: azoteranno

title: azoteranno


text: azoterei

title: azoterei


text: azoteresti

title: azoteresti


text: azoterebbe

title: azoterebbe


text: azoteremmo

title: azoteremmo


text: azotereste

title: azotereste


text: azoterebbero

title: azoterebbero


text: azotiate

title: azotiate


text: azotino

title: azotino


text: azotassi

title: azotassi


text: azotassimo

title: azotassimo


text: azotassero

title: azotassero


text:
azotatura

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) application of nitrogen fertilizers

title: azotatura


text: ακολουθιέμαι

title: ακολουθιέμαι


text: ubeskyttede

title: ubeskyttede


text:
موټک وهل

Verb

 * 1)  to masturbate

title: موټک وهل


text: ubeskyttete

title: ubeskyttete


text:
енәйәт

Etymology
From.

Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) crime

title: енәйәт


text:
冤罪

Noun

 * 1) miscarriage of justice

Usage notes
Rare in modern Sinitic, where it is superseded by in usage.

Etymology
→

From compound. Compare modern 🇨🇬 reading yuānzuì.

Noun

 * 1) miscarriage of justice; false charge

title: 冤罪