text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/March

Please translate Latin to English
SI QUIS VINO EIUS GENERIS UTI AUDEAT CELERITER MORIATUR. EODEM DIE FILIUS EIUS NATUS EST ET MORTUUS EST.
 * Non est forum translationum. Translation requests quaeris. —CodeCat 20:09, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

What to do when I accidently entered something in upper case
I added a new entry ("Monthly meeting") which really should be lower case ("monthly meeting"). I don't know how to fix this blunder now that it has been saved. Kiwima (talk) 02:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to move the entry to the lower-case spelling. The menu option for doing that tends to be hidden in a menu labeled something meaningless like "More", but you should have it somewhere.
 * This will leave a redirect behind, which we try to avoid in most cases, but you can add a template to the redirect page to bring it to our attention, and an admin will delete it. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:59, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Keyboard
How do you guys type all of these characters of various languages? Are you using a software or the your windows input? Im just curious.
 * Windows allows you to set up your keyboard to input alternative "alphabets" from the standard keyboard (In Windows 8 - Control panel/Clock, language and Region/Language/Change input methods). So for example I can move from the "Roman alphabet" to the «ελληνικό αλφάβητο» (Greek) at the touch of a key.  — Saltmarsh συζήτηση-talk 21:55, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * There are other ways, too. There's a box below the text box when you're editing a page that allows you to click to insert special characters. I also use the Windows utility; for IPA I use the Transliterator add-on for Firefox, and for Burmese I use a Myanmar character picker. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:22, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Translation Request
Hi, I don't mean to be a bother but is the translation request page being monitored? I've put In two sentences in latin a few days ago and it has yet to be translated. Could someone check that? Thanks!.
 * You could be a bit more patient and less demanding? Nobody here has to translate it if they don't want to. —CodeCat 13:38, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Do we have a context label for sectarian slurs?
The IP Formerly Known As Pass A Method added rafidah, which is very rare in English, but does seem to have some usage among English-speaking Sunni Muslims as a sectarian slur against Shiites. I thought it would be a good idea to use a context label to indicate this highly-restricted context, but I couldn't think of any. We do have "ethnic slur", but religious differences aren't necessarily ethnic ones. I'm sure we can find lots of terms to use this on, though papist, heathen and Islamofascist are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:54, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We can go with sectarian slur or religious slur (more common). — Ungoliant (falai) 13:43, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Other examples are Prod and its synonyms. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

citation
I would like to know how to cite the information that I need to use for a research paper. The information I found is on sugar.

string
I added in theism.

I added in theaism and in theinism.

When I click the links in theaism and in theinism, I get taken to the top of the theism page.

Should it scroll down the page to the actual sense or stay at the top of the page? Should I just craft a bare link? —BoBoMisiu (talk) 16:39, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Use : . —CodeCat 17:12, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. I couldn't find that in the documentation. TVM. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 17:21, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Nahuatl inflection
As far as I looked around, no Nahuatl word had an inflection table (e.g.: tlācohtli). One might argue, that an inflection table isn't needed if a few forms are mentioned (e.g. for normal pure Latin words just nom. sg., gen. sg., for German words nom. sg., gen. sg., nom. pl., for normal regular English words nom. sg.). But as there are inflection tables for some languages, this argument isn't valid.

So, accourding to [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Nahuatl_grammar] and compared with some basic grammar information on some web sites and in a book it should be like this: -07:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC), added by IP
 * In general the affix -yo would be missing, like "nonac" (my meat) & "nonacayo" (my meat which is a part of me, my own flesh). In case of "tlācohtli" (slave) this maybe doesn't make sense ("my slave which is a part of me" &c.), but maybe it can be used (similar to monarchic 1. ps. pl. "we"/"our").
 * In pillé resp. pilli it is stated that pillé is the vocative of pille. Besides that entry I haven't heard of "(grammatical) cases" in case of Nahuatl anywhere (i.e. it might be wrong), and it seems like Nahuatl has only two cases, subject and object (at least when exluding possessive/genitive like it's also done in some English grammar books). But maybe a vocative does exists or does exists for some words (like some but not all Latin words have a locative case).

Question about adding obsolete forms.
I have a little question about adding obsolete forms. There was a major spelling change in Swedish in 1906 where a lot of words were changed. Therefore I like to add this to the entries with the modern spelling:

Alternative forms

So, should I put it like that above or like this?:

Alternative forms

 * Portuguese has the same issue. What I do is use just in the alternative forms section of the main entry, and add a more detailed description in the definition of the obsolete form. — Ungoliant (falai) 16:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

How to find language codes?
I'm sorry, I have to vent my frustration. All I wanted was copy etymology information for one word (neume) from Wikipedia.

Of course I didn't expect it to be a simple copy and paste operation. I was prepared for the fact that the format is standardized differently from Wikipedia, and when I saw that the templates and  expect language codes, it didn't strike me as a problem. How wrong I was!

There was no link to the possible values anywhere, neither in the template documentation, nor in the editing help, nor, for that matter, a list of at least the most common ones in the "Advanced" editing features. After a long and frustrating search (involving several misleading steps, such as when the template description has Easter egg links marked "language codes" and "language families"), I finally arrived at List of families. Now that page doesn't list "medieval Latin" under that name, so I searched for the word "Latin". That turns out to be impractical, since it occurs many times in the "Scripts" column. Then I had what I thought was a clever idea: Well, I thought, "middle English" and "middle French" are "enm" and "frm", respectively, let's look for "lam". Wrong again! That stands for "Lamba", and there's nothing anywhere near that looks like medieval Latin. Then I realized that the table is sortable, and I happen to know the family; I'll just sort by that! But no, that doesn't work since the table is split in alphabetically, which makes the sorting pointless.

So I'm giving up now; I left the original Wikipedia text as a hidden comment so someone with more experience can convert the text to the proper layout later. SebastianHelm (talk) 07:04, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You can simply type "Medieval Latin" as the language code (it's not a language of its own, so it doesn't have a proper language code - see List of languages/special). I've cleaned up the entry. Smurrayinchester (talk) 08:00, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably the easiest way to find this out on your own would have been to go to Category:English terms derived from Medieval Latin and see how an existing entry does it. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:56, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I had a similar problem when I first started. It was not clear to me what the set of non-ISO 639 codes included, until I read Etymology (which is only a draft). I still see a disconnect between, for example, Medieval Latin as a code but Latin as the language on the entry page of a Medieval Latin etyl coded word. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 15:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC), modified 17:07, 30 March 2015 (UTC) to add my username.
 * When writing template documentation, I always include a link to Languages in there. Something like what I did at Template:number box. —CodeCat 15:51, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Good to know, nevertheless, Languages is "a policy think tank" that may change; but the Latin probably will remain stable and not be usable in or  or most other templates which require the ISO codes. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 17:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone - lots of good suggestions; that helps me already. Now I wonder if some of this could be included in the editing UI, so other new users can find it easily. On my monitor, there's plenty of space next to "Advanced - Special characters - Help". It seems to me this is more important than "Advanced", so how about inserting it before "Advanced"? If that's not possible, how about under Help, among the first three entries (Formatting/Links/Headings), for relatively easy discovery? SebastianHelm (talk) 23:50, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/March


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/April

Grand Sophy
How or where do I add "Grand Sophy", "Sophy" is a title, that is also found with the "Grand" epithet/adjective? I don't think it should be a separate entry. I don't think it is a separate sense of "Sophy". Do I add "Grand Sophy" as usage note in "Sophy"? Where do place the attributions, do I add attributions in a usage note? —BoBoMisiu (talk) 21:40, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

*whatever* has an article on wikipedia ...
I strongly suggest to to remove this - bot-created? - thingy off of every page where the "article" on en-wikipedia is but a redirect. A redirect is not any help whatsoever on a word redirected to whereever else, instead just pissing off anyone who falls for that (bot-created?) link. Should not be that hard to check, is it ? thanks. 46.142.33.13 04:50, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that these links are bridges to the encyclopedic world. A link to a redirect might be relevant, but I agree that a link to the actual page would be much better. However, the major issue is that a link from e.g. a common noun to a town with the same (capitalized) name is 100% irrelevant. A bot cannot make the difference between relevant links and irrelevant links, except for entries with the same name (capitalized in both projects). Bots should not be used in other cases. Lmaltier (talk) 15:12, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi. I made above entry, as you can see middle of the night and probably not even sober. Ehem. Sorry.

 * I did not mean the problem with links to something else with the same name, but to redirects -> articles under a completely different "word". I mean whoever is here looking up things in wiktionary.org probably is interested in the word itself, e.g. etymology of "helium", not necessarily in all the technical and whatnot aspects of helium within the real world. In this case, the link "wikipedia has an entry on helium" is serving well, that article is under the lemma helium, and has a "history" section explaining why this name "helium". But if look up "harlot" in wiktionary, and lets say not satisfied with the etymology bit I click the link thingy "wp has an entry on harlot" -> it has NOT. It has but a redirect to "prostitute" and of course that article on "prostitute" has absolutely nothing about the word "harlot".

 * I was just hoping that it might be feasible to give that bot creating those links to wikipedia some criteria so it could decide to not enter that link thingy into wiktionary pages when the wp-target is but a redirect. dab pages would not be affected, since they are not redirects. But maybe that is not feasible ? ah, well, then … 46.142.74.247 19:55, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no such bot. The template (or whatever it redirects to) creates the link based on either the page name of the entry, or on whatever it's given as a parameter. The problem is that (as far as I know), templates can't check for redirects on other wikis. Besides, the Wikipedia links aren't there for people who want more dictionary-type information such as etymologies, they're there so people who want to know more about the concept referred to by the term can read about it in an encyclopedia article. In other words, a  template in the harlot entry should be changed to link to Prostitute directly- but that would have to be done by hand (one could program a bot to do it, but someone would have to take that on as a project, and it doesn't sound like a very good use of a bot owner's time). Chuck Entz (talk) 02:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Dump of English words
Hi, is there any more up-to-date dump of English words available than the one at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Index:English dated 2012-Apr-28? 109.145.180.118 00:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Yes: . Equinox ◑ 01:04, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for the reply. The linked pages contain a lot of stuff which I don't fully understand, and I can't really find what I am looking for. Could you (or someone) possibly give me specific instructions on where I can download the list of English words? 109.145.180.118 01:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Anyone? 81.152.230.182 11:23, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Try here: . You can't just get the "list of all page titles" because that will include non-English words too. Perhaps get "all pages, current versions only", and then discard any page whose content does not include the string . It might require a little programming, or some kind of search-in-files tool. Equinox ◑ 11:53, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply. This is much more complicated than I envisaged from your first reply. So there is no way just to get an up-to-date list of English words in simple user-readable format? I think that would be a valuable facility. 81.152.230.182 17:10, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Once upon a time Index:English was kept up to date. But, as with all other languages, this is sadly no longer the case. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. 109.153.245.85 19:21, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

 * By the way, in case anyone cares, or ever wants to run the process again, I think there may be a slight glitch somewhere in the generation of Index:English. One or two common words, e.g. "confer", "prefer", "tolerance", which I assume must have been entered at the time of the 2012-Apr-28 database dump, are inexplicably omitted. 109.157.11.62 02:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Index:English is outdated and should probably not be used. If you want to "screen-scrape" the English word list, then you should now use Category:English_lemmas plus Category:English_non-lemma_forms. Since this involves at least as much programming as my previous suggestion regarding the data dump, I don't see why anyone would do it. Equinox ◑ 03:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Original poster, if you're desperate for the English word list (but let me warn you it will include things like aargh, bzzzt, niggerfucker and supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, so it might not suit your Facebook Scrabble game): I can probably generate it for you. But right now I'm very busy with some academic commitments so it might take me a little while. Equinox ◑ 03:16, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * If you do ever get the time to do this, I think it would be a very useful facility. Free, high quality word / phrase lists are always valuable. From my point of view, it would be useful to include inflections (plurals, verb inflections, comparatives, superlatives), but to exclude misspellings, such as recieve. If you ever do do it, I think it would be helpful to put a link at the top of "Index:English" saying "For more up-to-date list, go here" -- that's assuming you don't replace "Index:English" itself. Another possiblity is that I may be able to do it myself from the database dump, but the main sticking point is that I cannot read the "bz2" format, and I cannot install any software to enable me to do so. How hard would it be for someone to convert the "bz2" file to a "zip" file that I can open with standard Windows software? 86.152.163.58 17:14, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

 * It's a shame this hasn't been updated in three years. We've added a LOT of new entries since then. Is there no one out there with the relevant expertise who can publish an updated index? ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:36, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Poe's law
Can Poe, as a noun, be used as to refer to an instance of Poe's law? For example That statement is a Poe, to mean the statement is false, and has been created to discredit the purported author? LongHairedFop
 * Basically it depends on the existence of evidence. Can you see such usage in the real world - Google book search for instance. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:32, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * A quick Google search, with quotes, for "that is a poe" -power found a few relevant hits. Confounding the search is that Poe can refer to Power over Ethernet, Edgar Allan Poe, or directly to Poe's Law. The hits are
 * http://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=33187#p33168
 * http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/20/american-atheists-bench-in-florida-gets-vandalized-and-we-know-who-did-it/#comment-971511601
 * http://www.rationalskepticism.org/islam/the-obedient-wife-club-t22840-20.html#p875855
 * However, they are all in comments, rather than the site's author, so there may be less weight to them. I'm not sure if it is enough of a neologism to warrant inclusion, which is why I'm asking here. LongHairedFop (talk) 10:21, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I think describing your example in terms of Poe's law, "that statement is a Poe", would not "mean the statement is false" but that it is not discernable. I don't think it distinguishes whether the statement "has been created to discredit the purported author." In that sense, I think "that statement is a Poe" is equivalent to "that statement is indiscernible." The links you gave show a different sense, that a poe is someone or something fictitious. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 18:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

how can you submit a new word?
How do you submit a new word to Wiktionary?

Wikidictionary Babel
How do you guys know if someone truly knows a language at a near native level? Do you test anyone?
 * No. It's entirely based on self-reporting. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:40, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

-iter - German?
Words with -iter do (or more like did) exist in German too. E.g.: "So wie aber die Tochter das Substantiv nur pronominaliter und die Mutter das Adjektiv nur adverbialiter begreift [...]" (older book); idealiter, generaliter, realiter (duden.de). Some of these words could even be pseudo-latinisms, i.e. they might be created in German and not exist in Latin. So: is -iter also German? If not: Should "German" -iter be mentioned anyway, of course with notes like "only in latinisms", "not productive"? -23:14, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Why is there no conjugation tables for the English words?
Why is this? I think that it would be very useful to have. The Swedish wiktionary has conjugations for its terms, the Icelandic wiktionary has conjugations for its terms and Dutch has conjugations for its terms etc. Why doesn't the English version of wiktionary have this?

 * What do you expect to see, exactly? We already list the inflections for English verbs (goes, going, went, gone). Equinox ◑ 20:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, so the grammar isn't more complicated than that? I mean, I've never really thought about it, but isn't their some sort of archaic forms? Dreysman (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Yes, they're pretty repetitive: it's not like e.g. French or Finnish where you need huge conjugation tables for gender and grammatical case. The nastiest English verb is "be", where we do actually have a table. There are archaic forms (goest, goeth) but they don't exist for all verbs, and I think consensus is against including them at the lemma form. Equinox ◑ 20:52, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's all I needed to know, thanks! Dreysman (talk) 21:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Creating a new page
What are the stipulations for creating a new page for a protologism?
 * "Don't". —CodeCat 15:43, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Could you give me a better understanding of why I should not? --Netterandrew (talk) 15:56, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Because we don't allow entries for protologisms on Wiktionary. —CodeCat 16:53, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The steps for creating a new page for a protologism are as follows:
 * Create your protologism someplace other than Wiktionary.
 * Make your protologism so popular that at least three people independent of you use it in a durably archived medium (e.g. a print book, newspaper, or magazine) over the space of more than a year.
 * Add the new Wiktionary entry for your protologism, providing the citations for who has used it and where.
 * Good luck! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:20, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/April


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/May

Basic linguistics
Hi. I want to learn more about the science of linguistics, like about morphology/phonetics/IPA/etc. This is not taught in my high school. Is there a way I can learn about basic linguistics science with basic wordings? As in like middle school classroom typed language? I like things I can understand easily. Thanks. NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 04:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Also it has to be something online and free. NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 04:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There's a textbook for linguistics at Wikibooks, so it's online and free, but I don't know how good it is or how easy it would be for a middle-schooler to understand. Linguistics isn't usually taught before the undergraduate university level, so that is usually the target audience for textbooks. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

zur
I was quite excited to come across this globe in our shop. The writing, not that you can see all of it, is in Spanish and Latin. However the Spanish is archaic, it features the writing mar del and not pictured, mar del. This is obviously not contemporary Spanish. Can anyone work out when the spelling was used? It would give me an insight into how old the piece is. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Google Books Ngrams isn't looking promising. Deliberate misspellings? Not Spanish? Renard Migrant (talk) 15:43, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If you look at Abraham Ortelius, you'll see a map from 1589 that uses that spelling. Ortelius was Flemish, but was in the service of the king of Spain. You'll probably get better results by looking at the place names to see if there are any historical clues from what different places are called. Of course, there's always the possibility that this a modern copy of an older globe, with decorative details like dragons thrown in for artistic effect. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:09, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

 * Where's "our shop"? I'm coming to buy that globe. Equinox ◑ 02:52, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

 * I found a hit from 1748. --Type56op9 (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Navarro-Aragonese
Are there any good resources on the Navarro-Aragonese language? I’d like to add some words. --Romanophile (talk) 09:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The first place I'd look is in the books cited in the footnote section of . It doesn't actually have an ISO code; do we want to create one for it, or shall we consider it an archaic variety of Aragonese (code ) and tag it with a context label like ? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Defining the name of the language would be the first thing to do. SemperBlotto (talk) 08:05, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * , (watch out for normalisations). — Ungoliant (falai) 15:58, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Do we also have a term for the ancestor of Asturian? What is it? --Romanophile (talk) 10:57, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Old Leonese (roa-ole). — Ungoliant (falai) 15:32, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Problem creating new entry
I intended to create a new entry for "ZOPA" (= Zone of Possible Agreement), but when I follow the instructions at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page, I simply get taken to the existing "zopa". So how do I create "ZOPA"? 86.186.14.111 02:45, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

 * Click this link Equinox ◑ 02:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks! I see that someone else has now already created the entry. I think it would be useful to update the instructions at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page to include the information about how to create an entry when a case variant already exists. I would be happy to do this myself, except I am unable to edit the help page. 86.183.128.199 17:19, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The easy way is to create a redlink on an existing page and then click that. For example, if you type  in the search box, it just takes you to the page zori (which is a relatively new feature; when the help page was written that didn't happen), but if you make the link ZORI on a page and then click it, you can start a new page. (You don't even have to save the page with the redlink on it; just click "Show preview" and then click the redlink.) —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The IP is right, auto-redirects are quite irritating when you want to create an entry and the title already exists with variants caps or diacritics. For genevre yesterday it took me to génèvre so I had to type directly into the URL https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/genevre to stop it taking me to génèvre. I've been here since 2007 and it's taking me a while to get my head around it! Renard Migrant (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The easiest way is to go to the existing entry and add an template at the top. That generates a red link for the one you want to add. Don't forget to do the same in reverse. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

vandal
Is there a synonym for this word that’s less offensive to ancient Germanians? --Romanophile (talk) 08:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

List of wiktionary user promotons
Could someone give me the link of wiktionary user promotions list? It is a list of user jobs I guess like admins and stewarts. I cannot seem to find the page

Interwiki problem with proverbs
The names of pages with proverbs start with minuscule letters and do not end with full stops, even when the proverbs are sentences (barking dogs seldom bite). Czech Wiktionary has a different attitude: all the proverbs that are sentences there start with capital letters and end with periods (cs:Pes, který štěká, nekouše.). Is there any way how to connect the English Wiktionary page pes, který štěká, nekouše with the Czech Wiktionary page of the same proverb? They are the same proverbs, the same wording, the same spelling, everything is the same, only the attitude to naming proverb pages is different. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 20:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably the best way would be to make a redirect from Pes, který štěká, nekouše. to pes, který štěká, nekouše here at en-wikt as well as a redirect in the opposite direction at cs-wikt. That way the bots will connect one language's entry to the other language's redirect and vice versa, and both pages can be found. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 11:43, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

The best way is actually to correct bots to not assume that interwikis will be always in the very same form. Danny B. (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I Agree. However until this is done I think we have to accept Angr's suggestion. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 12:12, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

There are two problems.
 * 1) When is bot running in   mode, it ignores all pages, which have not identical names, even if they are redirects. Without this mode it will follow all redirects (there are in some small languages redirects from english words to local language).
 * 2) When is bot running with manual conrol, there exists some abuse filter in en.wikt which prevents to save differenrt form (example). JAn Dudík (talk) 13:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I think there are not many cases like that, so it could be done manually. Unfortunately, it is impossible too. If you do it, you get abuse filter warning first, and if you continue, your edit is promptly reverted anyway, no matter that the edit was explained in the summary in detail. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 18:26, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

newbie spellin query
how do i find a word in the wiktionary if i do not know what the proper spelling is?

newbie spellin query ariola
how do i find a word in the wiktionary if i do not know what the proper spelling is? ariola

 * The search mechanism will try to suggest similar words, but it's not perfect. Perhaps aureola? Equinox ◑ 22:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Almost certainly . SemperBlotto (talk) 06:33, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

secret underworld auction
On the TV show I heard a UK (criminal jargon?) name for a secret underworld auction, presumably for stolen art and other similar items, that was something like nablus. Does anyone know a good spelling for this? DCDuring TALK 00:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

getting started with adding kanji definitions
As I'm fairly new to any serious editing/entering of information that require sources, I would like information on how to properly edit entries. Would anyone be so kind as to get me started or direct me to relevant information?

Specifically, as I'm studying Japanese Kanji, I occasionally run into words that haven't got a definition yet and before contributing I would need to know which sources are considered valid, what issues I should avoid with regards to "non-latin" characters, proper romanization.

I am familiar with basic editing and format coding, apart from correctly adding sources, so 'Help:How to edit a page' unfortunately isn't providing me with anything useful or new.

Thanks in advance, OmikronWeapon (talk) 10:21, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

 * Generally speaking, you don’t need sources when you enter definitions. You might ask if he has any suggestions or needs as far as entering definitions for Japanese Kanji. You may be thinking of Wikipedia, where everything has to be sourced. Here we usually don’t need sources (as long as you’re not copying a lot of copyrighted text word for word). —Stephen (Talk) 08:21, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Use of the term "CC-BY-SA"
The Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license is not abbreviated to "CC-BY-SA"; Creative Commons' official abbreviation is "CC BY-SA", per their website and others. I'd like to get consensus to deprecate the term "CC-BY-SA" and replace it in all visible places with "CC BY-SA". Thanks, --L235 (talk) enwiki 21:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There are... quite a lot of these, and unfortunately neither the search engine nor Google can distinguish between hyphens and spaces, so I don't know how many. Given that the form with the hyphen is pretty common anyway, is it worth the work? ObsequiousNewt (εἴρηκα|πεποίηκα) 17:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, there doesn't need to be a systemic race to find them and get rid of them; just a passive "if I notice it I'll change it over". Does that sound fine? --L235 (talk) enwiki 18:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC) Looks like first ping didn't work; repinging: --L235 (talk) enwiki 18:13, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think he means that they cannot distinguish hyphens and spaces on the internet, so we can’t get an idea about which spelling is more common. "CC-BY-SA" is certainly used in printed books, and that makes it a valid spelling as far as we are concerned. See here for some examples in printed works. If there are three or more, that’s enough for it to be included here. —Stephen (Talk) 03:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * (Sorry for late reply) I mean, can we change it to the non-hyphenated version within Wiktionary policies and project pages only. Thanks, --L235 (talk) enwiki 21:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/May


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/June

adjective
If an adjective is neither comparative nor superlative, what is it? --Romanophile (talk) 11:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * . —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:09, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

felting
felting (a noun)is a word used in the U.K. by the building trade for something to do with roofing, perhaps about tin at the edge of the roofing tiles. Because I couldn't remember exactly i turned to Wiktionary but couldn't find any path. Rameshkkhanna (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * See . SemperBlotto (talk) 19:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

WYF
It has been noted that the term WTF has been added to the Webster's Unabridged dictionary.

Here in Flagstaff Arizona we have bumper stickers with WTF in large letters, and in small letters it says Welcome to Flaagstaff

How do I submit my sandbox
Submitted this to Wikipedia, twice, second review came back that, "it probably belongs in Wiktionary." Bobmodikiw (talk) 01:38, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you show it to us? —CodeCat 17:22, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I beleive its properly formatted, entered a new Wiktionary word, food broker Bobmodikiw (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Faux Amis
Is the a specific rubric/heading to use in a word entry to list a faux amis -- a warning or advisory that the entry does not mean the same as a specified word that it superficially resembles? Thanks --67.244.30.139 07:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that should become clear from the definition that's in the entry. If one term resembles "chair" but means "table" then the entry will say "table" which makes it obvious. —CodeCat 17:24, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

 * i just want to translate english to french language --07:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Same thing. There is no specific heading to mark faux amis. See prétendre. —Stephen (Talk) 12:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:color panel
Requesting the contents be modified to not involve tables (there is absolutely no need to use HTML tables for something so basic). See Template_talk:color_panel —suzukaze (t・c) 22:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * We are in the midst of considering forbidding HTML tables.
 * I assume you would keep the template-default logic in the replacement. DCDuring TALK 23:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The word reprise
What is the correct pronunciation? re- PRIZE or re- preeze ?
 * See reprise, which says /ɹɪˈpɹiːz/ . This means that it is "re- preeze". Not "re- PRAIZ". NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 02:57, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

eiginnafn
Look at the IPA pronunciation... "/ˈeiːjɪnˌnapn/". I was making Wikitoslav articles when I realized that the sounds "pn"... How can two sounds go together without an ə in between it? Like /ˈeiːjɪnˌnapən/ ? Can someone please explain this to me? NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 02:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Nasals are sonorants, so they can serve as syllables without a vowel. I'm sure there are lots of people who say happen so that it would rhyme with this (I tend to pronounce it like "hapm" or "ha'm"). It's true that syllabic consonants should, strictly speaking, have a diacritic under them, but that's strictly speaking. Also, there are all kinds of what you would consider strange consonant clusters in all kinds of languages: "gd", "dn", and "gb" are just a few. The last one is mostly restricted to Africa, but the first two are European. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, not all languages follow the same rules of syllable structure as English does. Just because English doesn't allow syllables like /napn/, that doesn't mean Icelandic doesn't. In Icelandic, /napn/ might really be a single syllable, in which case there shouldn't be a syllabic diacritic under the /n/. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:43, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Full الفِعْل المَجْهُول Conjugation
Is there any reason the full Conjugation of أَتَى in الفِعْل المَجْهُول not done?

 * I do not find any entry named الفِعْل المَجْهُول. I don’t know what you are talking about. —Stephen (Talk) 10:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Lowercase pages
Either letting it automatically get the page name or manually entering it lowercase, the Wikipedia template will always link to the uppercase page on the wiki. In the Lojban language capital letters aren't used, so that creates a problem. For example, on the zdotu'a page it will always link to the Lojban Wikipedia page as opposed to the  as it should. How exactly could I get a lowercase link to a Wikipedia page?

Brantmeierz (talk) 15:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not case sensitive for the first character in the page title, so this shouldn't be a problem. —CodeCat 15:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * He is linking to the Lojban Wikipedia, not the English one. It is case-sensitive. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

List of wiktionary user promotions
Could someone give me the link of wiktionary user promotions list? It is a list of user jobs I guess like admins and stewarts. I cannot seem to find the page
 * Here is a list of user rights:

 * bot
 * administrator
 * bureaucrat
 * steward
 * account creator
 * importer
 * transwiki importer
 * oversight
 * check user
 * confirmed user
 * IP block exempt
 * autopatroller
 * Flood flag
 * patroller
 * rollbacker
 * Note that most of these are almost never used in Wiktionary. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:35, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

 * See WT:Admin, I think the important ones are covered there. —Stephen (Talk) 07:50, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Clarification on woot (1990s) as related/not to woth (Middle English)?
This definition of the word woot  implies that it is a modern word, a corruption or alternative of "w00t", an internet/texting expression. However, the definition then goes on to relate "woth" and "witen" apparently as different forms of the word from Middle English. How do we get from a brand new word meaning one thing to a MIddle English word that means something entirely different, according to the definition of "woth" in the Wiktionary? It seems like a step is missing, or we have two different words. If anyone knows sometng about this relationship, or lack of, I would like to know! Thanks. Peacedance (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I think the confusion here arises from the fact that the page woot contains two entries: one for a modern English exclamation and one for a Middle English verb form meaning "know". As far as I know, these two words are completely unrelated, even though they're spelled the same and are therefore defined on the same page. I hope that clarifies the situation. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 14:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

müde - extra section on superlative
Hello All, I am not certain how to edit a page. On the müde page there are two superlative sections and I believe only one is needed. Just thought someone might want to fix that minor detail. Tony 108.23.167.66 00:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The two superlative tables don't look the same though. They have different forms. —CodeCat 01:03, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * They are labelled the same though. Why are there two, and can the headings be distinguished in some way? Are they different dialects? Different standards? Keith the Koala (talk) 21:09, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of forms in the German language where a short -e can be elided. Müdeste and müdste are the same. The form müdeste is much more common, but müdste is allowed. On the German Wiktionary, see de:Flexion:müde. —Stephen (Talk) 04:25, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

German
Is German from the 15th till 17th century considered "German" (= Modern High German), or is Early Modern High German separated from "German", or is it (partly) Middle High German?

Background: Joseph Kehrein's ''Grammatik der deutschen Sprache des funfzehnten bis siebenzehnten Jahrhunderts. Erster Theil: Laut- und Flexionslehre'' (Leipzig, 1854; google book: /books?id=bhMJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA151) mentions several "unusual" declinations, and so did [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justus_Georg_Schottel] in his famous grammar book. Of course, grammar books aren't citations, but most likely some of those old declinations are attestable. For example these are Schottel's plural of and : Nom. die Bürgere, Gen. derer Bürgerer, Dat. denen Bürgeren, Acc. die Bürgere, Voc. O ihr Bürgere, Abl. von denen Bürgeren; Nom. die Häuser, Gen. derer Häuser, Dat. denen Häuseren, Acc. die Häuser, Voc. o ihr Häuser, Abl. von denen Häuseren. Kehrein also mentions an Albertus who should be [de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentius_Albertus] (his grammar book is in Latin though ([google book: /books?id=M-dfbTaavrMC )). -eXplodit (talk) 20:40, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The answer should be yes, at least now and at least in case of German from the 16th century and later. -eXplodit (talk) 15:39, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I tried to attest (cf. the attestable words, , ), which should literally mean point or dot, related with English dot, but might figuratively mean (little) child. I couldn't attest this meaning, but found something else. A few search results: So Dotz (also Dots) should be an (attestable) genitive of the old word Dot meaning Tod.
 * [zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=Dotz&k=Bibliothek] (see also [zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q="Dots"&k=Bibliothek] & [zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q="Dot"&k=Bibliothek]): There is one result where "Dotz" means "Tods" (genitive of Tod = the dead); "gestorben des schantlichen Dotz", "es ist nichtz Unsicherers dan die Stund des Dotz"
 * [books.google.de/books?id=4FtKAAAAcAAJ] - google OCR has: "und in Gottes Lob zu lernen ist des Holtzmeyers des Dotz frölich zu warten einem yeden Menschen Nütz und gut"
 * [books.google.de/books?id=o-YUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA411&dq="Dotz"]: "Geprediget von dem hochgel. D. J. K., darin geschicklich red in Gottes lob zu lernen ist, des Holzmeiers des Dotz frölich zu warten."

But: I've never seen a grammar book (not even old ones) which uses a genitive -z - though there's also nichtz, so it's a more general thing... -eXplodit (talk) 15:39, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Was z instead of nowadays s somewhat regional (like used in Low-German regions, cf. Dutch dood which is also spelled with d), non-standard, rare?
 * Was z just used sometimes out of typographical reasons, like when not having a ligature of t and s (*ʦ), one used a ligature of t and z (ꜩ)?

Turkish fire
Just tried to edit a page, but since I was unfamiliar with the format of the page, I decided to make a request to have it added on the article's "Discussion Page." I was informed that it might not be read (because the page might not be monitored) and instructed to visit the "Tea room" or the "Information desk." It looked as if this was the best place for my comment, so I've pasted below what initially made me want to edit the page:

The page is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:fire

My comment is (somewhat edited here): I discovered that "fire" means something entirely different in Turkish than it does in English, I wanted to get that information added to this page. [It means shrinkage (as in retail loss) in Turkish.] I attempted to edit the page for it and add it, but I'm just not familiar with how this page is set up or how to add an entry for Turkish. If it helps legitimize this request to have it added, I have two sources for my information -- WordReference (http://www.wordreference.com/tren/fire) and Tureng (http://tureng.com/search/shrinkage).

 * Added. —Stephen (Talk) 04:58, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Adding  to the page prosaic
I would like to be able to link directly to the third alternative usage on the page for "prosaic".

The following HTML code would achieve this:

 * I believe that you are supposed to use the template for that sort of thing. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:05, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

How do I go about adding the template to the page "prosaic"?

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/June


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/July

ciboa
From what little I can dig up, this is a palm tree with very large leaves used as thatching and as umbrellas, and having sap used for a sort of palm wine. This sounds to me very much like Borassus aethiopica, but I can't find any mention of its botanical identity. Searching for this on Google Books is rather frustrating: the vast majority of passages onlne refer only to the fact that Mungo Park once used it as an umbrella.

Can anyone provide a botanical name, or at least a synonym I can look up? Chuck Entz (talk) 14:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Synonym: rhun. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like it’s the Borassus aethiopum indeed. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:58, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

EU legislation meaning of "p.m."
See and click document two. Now search for "p.m.". What do they refer to? --Ysangkok (talk) 20:05, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Templates for references
Where can I find templates used for referencing information e. g. from Etymology sections? It seems that template:cite-book is not suitable, because it requires fulfilling the parameter "passage". There is also template:reference-book, but the documentation says that the template should not be used in "References". Thank you. Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The "passage" parameter actually should not be required. I have just fixed this. --WikiTiki89 13:35, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:39, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I am afraid that there are many more problems with citation templates. For example I failed to find anything like cite journal. I found only template:cite with a parameter type=magazine, but it seems it is only for quotations but not for referencing information in the Etymology section (besides that it does not offer all necessary parametres: there is only year, but not date, there are not parameters volume, number, pages...). The same applies also to template:cite-magazine. Besides that there are many citation templates which lack documentation, such as the above mentioned cite-magazine or template:cite paper. Trying to understand the templates here is extremely timeconsuming for me, although I have some experience from English Wikipedia. It must be totally discouraging for all newbies :-(

May I ask for help once more? Could you suggest me, which template is most suitable for referencing information from an article published in a journal? Thank you very much. Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:04, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I recommend just writing out a citation manually. That's what I do when I run into problems. Our citation templates are horrible. --WikiTiki89 17:08, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, will do it that way, thanks. Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:18, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

New Word
Please create a page for "sporographic." Thanks
 * It seems to be very rare; it gets only 5 hits at . —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Category:English terms by language of origin ?
Is there a category that has English words categorized based on what language they derive from? If not, would it be easy enough to create such a thing, being that the etymology sections contain templates (although it might be complicated by the lists of cognates)? JodianWarrior (talk) 02:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * We have a pretty elaborate system of templates and modules to provide derivational categories from just about any language to just about any language. To start with, try Category:English terms derived from other languages. From there you can drill down through the category structure. For specific languages, the categories are always in the form "Category:" + language name + " terms derived from " + language name, as in Category:English terms derived from Sumerian. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:40, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's more or less what I was looking for. I realized shortly after posting here that there were already numerous categories of "English terms derived from...", so putting them together wouldn't be much work if it hadn't already been done.
 * It would be nice to be able to see how many different entries were under a category, with the entries in all subcategories included in the total (that way one could compare the number of terms derived from Indo-European languages with those derived from Sino-Tibetan without having to go through all the subcategories). It's largely for curiosity's sake, however; I'm just voicing my desires without expecting any changes.... JodianWarrior (talk) 13:39, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * How silly of me...I forgot about the little arrows that expand the categories. Some addition is still required, but it's easier than I was thinking it was. JodianWarrior (talk) 13:51, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

New Username
I'm not sure where I really should be asking this, so I'm doing it here... Could my username be changed globally (across all Wiki projects, that is)? I used it when I made a few edits on Wikipedia back in 2011, but it is no longer relevant to me. JodianWarrior (talk) 02:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Changing username. — Keφr 06:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. JodianWarrior (talk) 15:01, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Wiktionary's place on Google search results pages
Why is it that Wikipedia is pretty much the first thing that comes up for many Google searches, but Wiktionary often doesn't even show up at all on the first page? Do other dictionaries pay to show up first? Dictionary.com seems to be at the top most of the time, with Merriam-Webster, The Free Dictionary, and Vocabulary.com not far behind. I suspect that is the biggest reason Wiktionary doesn't have more visitors and editors than it does. JodianWarrior (talk) 02:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it's more cause of the algorythm and the exotic "Wikt-" part which mean and refer absolutely to nothing. At least, i think it's the name of Wiktionary which may penalize us, if it would be Wikidictionary I'm quite sure the project would be more visible. When I look for "dictionnaire" (french word for dictionary) on google, the "Wiktionnaire" (= fr.wikt) appear in the second page of the result page and it wasn't the home page of the project but only the entry page for "dictionnaire" word. V!v£ l@ Rosière   /Whisper…/  17:53, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Your logic fails to explain Wikipedia's being first. With your logic it should be Wikiencyclopedia in order to get into the first page.
 * I think time will come when they will (manually?) give us more credits with the forms of high PageRank coefficients xD. --Dixtosa (talk) 19:41, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Still, it would probably help if our pagetitles were "x - Wiktionary, the free dictionary", instead of just "x - Wiktionary". Compare how Wikipedia is "X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". - -sche (discuss) 20:54, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Automatically Generate Adjective Forms?
I recently took to adding besynnerlig and all of its forms, and it occurred to me that there might already be an automatic process for generating all of the pages for the adjective forms for regular adjectives. Is there such a thing? Rekov (talk) 19:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Definition order
What method is generally accepted for ordering definitions? Are they just added on a first-come-first-serve basis?

I see very strange orders sometimes, take rhombus for example:

 * 1) (zoology, now rare) Any of several flatfishes once considered part of the genus Rhombus. [from 16th c.]
 * 2) (geometry) A parallelogram having all sides of equal length. [from 16th c.]

I would think the second definition listed there would be listed first.

So is there a guideline somewhere? Bruto (talk) 08:56, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
 * No, there's not. Some people prefer to list senses in chronological order of first attestation, others like to list them in order of commonness in current usage, but most of us realize that researching what either of those orders is will turn out to be way more work than we're willing to do and so we tend to add new senses to the bottom, in the "first-come-first serve basis" you mention. 10:36, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

178.222.124.18
Not sure if this is the right place. IP editor (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/178.222.124.18) is consistently adding fake etymologies that cannot be corroborated by any of the relevant etymology sources for Serbo-Croatian (HJP, Skok). 93.139.57.95 19:41, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Surprising word - "deadname"
So I came across this term: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deadname#English

noun: "The birth name of a person who has since changed their name." verb: "To refer to someone who has changed their name by their previous name." ("to deadname", "deadnaming")

There's zero hits for this word on all of dictionary.com, JSTOR, Google Books or Google Scholar. There's a single Urban Dictionary entry less than a year old. There's a couple of links to online articles, all less than a year old.

What are the requirements for inclusion? Does this fill the 'attestation' requirement? Word asker (talk) 10:45, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

 * The term has associated citations (see its Citation page). SemperBlotto (talk) 10:49, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * And there are other citations (of the gender sense which Wordasker asks about) in the entry itself — to my surprise, since I had looked for citations just a month earlier and only been able to find the "kill by naming" citations I put on the citations page. Nice work finding the gender citations, Visviva! - -sche (discuss) 18:34, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

How to refer properly on en.wikt ?
Hi, I just created non-résistance and filled it but I'm really stuck for one thing : to refer properly the etymology like the fr.wikt article (you know that little [1] in exposant, how to do that here ? Which template or meanings to use ?). Thanks by advance. V!v£ l@ Rosière  /Whisper…/  17:43, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You can use  tags, just like on Wikipedia. We don't have a special  template. --WikiTiki89 17:48, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, I'll try to find an example over there. V!v£ l@ Rosière   /Whisper…/  21:16, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

google ngram
How reliable is google ngram ([books.google.com/ngrams/])? A google book search often has incorrect OCRs - especially regarding fraktur scripts, umlauts and the distinction of s/ſ/ß (e.g. ſs might become "ss" at google, while its actually used for "ß"). -eXplodit (talk) 00:09, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Well, if we look at a string like "das beſte", it's misread as "das befte" only about 1/1500th of the time (version with no smoothing). And if we look at an ngram of "dass" vs "daß", we see what we'd expect — daß has been more common during the times it's been standard, dass has been more common during the times it's been standard. - -sche (discuss) 18:59, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

 * beste is another kind of example. beſte might be misread as befte, but daſs (= daß) might be misread as dafs and might also be misread as dass. My impression is that in ca. 1871-1902 (cf. Template:U:de:dass) Latin script became more common, in which daſs was used, which than was misread as dass (or even dafs) by google instead of the correct form daß (or daſs). And there might be a simple reason why ß became more popular after 1902 again even though Latin script wasn't banished: ß (instead of ſs) became more widely available and more popular in Latin script. In a rule book after 1902 (Berlin, 1908) it is: "In lateinischer Schrift steht [...] ß (besser als ſs) für ß [...]" (it uses fraktur and Latin script, so the two versions of ß look different).
 * (There might also be reasons why Latin script became more common in the time after 1871: Latin got widely replaced by national languages and Germany became more European (-> nationalism, imperialism, WWI; also cf. Hitlerists' arguments for banishing fraktur).)
 * -eXplodit (talk) 22:28, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

(German) Participial Adjectives
At "Requested entries" there was: " - inflection of bestellen?".

So, how are (German) participles called here resp. how should (German) participles be called here? How about simply calling them "Participle" (that is resp. in some cases was a part of speech)?
 * unterdrückt (here labeled Adjective) is the past participle of unterdrücken, and unterdrückter (here labeled Adjective) is an inflected form of it.
 * bestellt (here labeled Verb) is the past participle of bestellen, and bestellter (here labeled Participial Adjective by me) is an inflected form of it.

PS: Category:German participle forms and Category:German participles do exist, but are almost empty. Should these categories be used for unterdrückter & bestellter and bestellt & unterdrückt? -eXplodit (talk) 20:11 & 20:18, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been making a habit of labelling participles with the POS header "Participle" to underscore the fact that they're not simply verb forms but have adjectival properties as well. —CodeCat 20:20, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I'd support that for the given reason, and as it makes things easier (no discussions whether a word like unterdrückt is an adjective or a verb form). Is there something like for participles, like  ? -eXplodit (talk) 21:00, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not use ? —CodeCat 21:12, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Amount of hypernyms and hyponyms in compared to german wiktionary and a practice to get them.
Hey everyone, I'm a computer science student from Düsseldorf, Germany and actually write my bachelor thesis. In this I compare different dictionaries and semantic nets to each other. My main focus is on the relationship of hyper- and hyponyms and in which way they are connected. I parsed the german and also the english wiktionary and recognize that the english version has a significant less number of hypernym and hypnym connections. Now I question myself why it is like that and if I maybe have missed out a important practice to read them out. I hope you can give some information about this. --Mo0812 (talk) 16:15, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

(Well, actually it's easier to add words here, as one doesn't have to add quotes or references, at least not if they are not requested (see requests for verification).) Or maybe in de.wt more terms are added as they use (more/better) templatised pages where one doesn't have to add a hyperonym section, but just hyperonyms.
 * Maybe this is relevant or helpful:
 * In German compounds are usually new words (like: Kind + (Geburt + Tag) = Kindergeburtstag), while in English many compounds are spelled like "birthday party" or "child's birthday" which then should often be what's here called "SoP" (sum of parts).
 * de.wt is German and thus it's easier for them to add German compounds. en.wt is English and thus it's not unlikely that here are less German words.
 * Maybe German terms like "Unterbegriff[e]" and "Oberbegriff[e]" are easier to understand for normal people than terms like "Hyperonym[e]" or "hyper[o]nym[s]". So maybe that's why more terms are added in de.wt.
 * -eXplodit (talk) 19:22, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/July


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/August

The citation of ふいんき
I think that we should avoid using even a part of a copyrighted material published in Japan as quotation because it is disputed whether we can apply fair use doctrine to such materials or not. There is even a judicial precedent that negated fair use protest against accusation of copyright infringement (18 Dec. 1995 by Supreme Court of Japan; see article 'Fair use' in jawp). To my concern the editor answered that it would be okay because it was a transcription of a very short spoken line. Then I'd like to ask here what you think about it. --エリック・キィ (talk) 14:50, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

 * My understanding is that en.Wiktionary is governed by United States law, where fair use is protected (and hence that the legality or illegality of fair use in Japan has no effect upon en.Wiktionary), but I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice — we could ping one of the WMF's lawyers. - -sche (discuss) 16:57, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for advice. Unfortunately, I don't know well what to do, so could you introduce to me or call directly anyone of them? --エリック・キィ (talk) 12:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Contact us points to this which lists an email address. —suzukaze (t・c) 09:20, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you very much for notification. --エリック・キィ (talk) 14:14, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Apologies, I meant to [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APhilippe_%28WMF%29&type=revision&diff=674890583&oldid=673243529 ping] User:Philippe (WMF) to this discussion yesterday, but I got distracted. En.Wikt's practice of quoting works (both copyrighted and uncopyrighted) to show and verify the usage of terms is described and rationalized in the last paragraph of the intro of WT:COPY ("Frequently, Wiktionary entries..."), and mentioned in the intro to WT:NFCC ("The English Wiktionary often..."), though explicitly not governed by the rest of latter policy. - -sche (discuss) 20:12, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem. I have waited cautiously and have not made any contact yet. And I didn't know the existence of the latter criteria, thanks. --エリック・キィ (talk) 02:04, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi エリック・キィ. User:Philippe (WMF) forwarded this on to me to take a look. First, let me clarify that I can't give legal advice to individual users per our disclaimer. What I can do is share the Wikimedia Foundation's perspective on the issue. The Foundation, located in San Francisco, is subject to U.S. law, which generally does not allow copyright in short phrases and also has an exception called "de minimis" that makes copying very small amounts of something okay even if it is copyrighted. Stanford has put out a great page about copyright in short phrases if you want to read more. I also want to remind you that, per the Terms of Use, even if U.S. law allows for something, individual users may need to obey the laws of the place where they live in order to avoid liability. The only way to know what law might apply to you as an individual would be to ask a local lawyer. I hope that helps clear up this issue a little.--Jrogers (WMF) (talk) 19:07, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for precious advice, I'm convinced mostly. --エリック・キィ (talk) 03:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Request for unprotection of Word of the Day pages
Hi, I am updating some of the Word of the Day pages, but am unable to change the following ones as they have been protected. Could an administrator please unprotect them?

 * Word of the day/December 14.
 * Word of the day/Archive/2006.
 * Word of the day/Archive/2009.
 * Word of the day/Archive/2010.
 * Word of the day/Nominations/Archive 2012 – I'd like to archive some stale nominations.

Thanks. Smuconlaw (talk) 16:17, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

 * ✅. - -sche (discuss) 16:47, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! Smuconlaw (talk) 16:56, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, by the way, I added the following template to the tops of the more recent WOTD archive pages for easier navigation:

 * I can't do so for "Word of the day/Nominations/Archive 2006" to "Word of the day/Nominations/Archive 2011" as these pages are also protected, but if you like you can add the template (suitably modified for each page) and then reprotect the pages. Smuconlaw (talk) 17:06, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

 * ✅. - -sche (discuss) 18:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! Smuconlaw (talk) 09:02, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Proper Nouns
Can proper nouns be added as Wiktionary entries? -MrdaChi (talk) 20:30, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, we already have many of them. See Category:Proper nouns by language. —CodeCat 20:34, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

English conjugation
What is our procedure for English verb inflection? Whenever I see an entry for an English verb, it displays the five main forms, but some entries (such as there be) have a request for a specific inflection-table template. I did respond to the English verb go request, using the en-conj template, but is it ever normally used? ~Eloquio (talk) 13:35, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * has a conjugation section. The tables are encoded manually. — Ungoliant (falai) 13:46, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * For simple verbs, there is, as seen on . - -sche (discuss) 14:54, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But do we ever use these templates in entries? ~Eloquio (talk) 10:04, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * English conjugation is so simple that adding tables hasn't been high on anyone's list of priorities, but Template:en-conj-simple is used on some pages and you can feel free to add it to more. You can look at look and like to see how it works on those kinds of verbs. It does not work on other kinds of verbs; that will have to be addressed in the future. - -sche (discuss) 16:53, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I just thought it might be useful to display the conjugations in a table, to show how future/conditional forms work, that aren't in the header. ~Eloquio (talk) 17:49, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Numbering of Meanings Translations
What is the policy on numbering of meanings translations, as defined by Entry layout? Are they permitted to change over time and for what reasons, how certain can I be about the consistency of the meaning numbers translation over time?
 * What numbering are you referring to? I don't think our translations are numbered. --WikiTiki89 10:49, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The original question is not clear, it should be what is the policy on numbing of meanings Entry_layout_explained, I've corrected the question. (JonathanDring (talk) 23:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC))
 * There isn't any such policy because it would be simply impossible to enforce. People add, remove, merge, split and rearrange senses all the time, and there's no way to keep track of it all with millions of entries and only a few dozen active admins. The only way to reliably link to a sense is to add a link target to the sense line with a template such as . Even then, there's always the possibility that someone will delete or completely change the line with the template. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sense IDs sound great, are there any policies at all about how changes to these links should occur, or is there a way to subscribe to changes to the link? (161.202.78.180 23:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC))

Is there any way to filter the content to one specific language?
There are several Latin-to-English dictionary sites, but I happened to use Wiktionary most often because unlike other sites, (1)it gives results for any form of a word (e.g., other sites give no result for "laudabat" but Wiktionary does) and, (2)It has a table of all possible declensions of each noun, verb, or adjective (this is very helpful for learning).

The only problem is it shows an entry for all other languages I do not care in the same page. This often makes a page very long. I am using Android, and all web browsers I have tested on Android are slow and poor at scrolling. So, it is time-consuming and annoying to move to the Latin section each time.

Is there any way to filter on the data permanantly to see Latin vocabularies only all the time? I searched Google for "Wiktionary Latin" but a possible sub-site, but there was no such thing.

 * There is a | Latin Wiktionary, but it is fairly useless. SemperBlotto (talk) 10:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but that is not what I meant. I do not want an all-Latin version, I want an English version that has only Latin entires.

 * It used to be that the mobile version automatically collapsed all the languages and you just had to scroll through the list and expand the one you wanted. But then they changed it and everything is expanded by default. Maybe there should be a setting. --WikiTiki89 10:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Collapsing/expanding is not the biggest problem. I am using Android devices (2013 Nexus 7, Galaxy Note Pro 12.2, etc). Loading is slow (probably because the page contains too much text from other Languages I am not interested in), and for some reason, when clicking a Latin link, the top location suddenly jumps up and down when page loading finishes. Since loading is slow, if I try to scroll down to see declensions when loading is not completed, it jumps to a weird location. Also when page is long, I have to scroll up many many times to search for a new word because the search field is at the top of the page.

 * If you add #Latin to the page address, it will go directly to the Latin section. For instance, the address for face is https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/face (I believe it's slightly different in the mobile version, but you get the idea). Add #Latin and you get https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/face#Latin, which will take you to the Latin section. Typing the extra letters may be a nuisance, but it may be possible to use Javascript to add them automatically (I'm not sure what Javascript capabilities there are in the mobile version). Chuck Entz (talk) 14:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the anonymous OP, but I just tried that on my phone and it doesn't work, at least not via the Wiktionary app (as opposed to using Wiktionary directly via Chrome or another browser). With the app, you can't enter URLs directly, you can just search for a term like, and if you want the Latin section you literally have to scroll all the way through the English entry to get to it. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * We have an app? --WikiTiki89 14:42, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, we have had one since 2012. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's for Android only. There doesn't seem to be an iOS version. --WikiTiki89 15:42, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Someone should file a bug report, because it's kind of silly to have a Wiktionary-specific app that can't deal with a very basic feature of most Wiktionaries' architecture. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * (Assuming that what other people have said about the apps in true,) the bug report should also request that people be able to log in through the app like they can through Wikipedia's. - -sche (discuss) 02:49, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I have tried the official Wiktionary App, which was marked "unsupported" and last updated in 2013. Well, the app was poor and the top table of contents were not shown, but at least it showed the result a lot faster than the web browsers did. If I cannot find any better solution, I will probably use this app instead of the web version from now. There also was another app named Vertes Latin dictionary, whose description was exactly what I was looking for: "pulling only Latin data from Wiktionary", but unfortunately the app also seemed to be abandoned and crashed on my Nexus 7 which is running Android 5.1.1.

 * Could you search for (i.e. type into the search box) face#Latin? - -sche (discuss) 02:49, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried that, it didn't work. Also, I've discovered it is possible to log in, but only by attempting to edit. If you click Edit or a red link, you're taken to a page where you can choose to log in. Editing is pretty complicated, though. I just did, but I'm probably never going to try that again. Way too much work. And still no tabbed languages! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 06:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Do TabbedLanguages work on mobile? - -sche (discuss) 14:56, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not on mine at any rate. Tabbed languages are not active if you're not logged on, and I don't see any way to log on via the app. Wikipedia's app allows users to log on, but AFAICT Wiktionary's doesn't. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Wasn't there once a consensus to make it the default for users that are not logged in? What happened to it? —CodeCat 23:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Was there a consensus? I only remember utter chaos in those debates. --WikiTiki89 09:55, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

3 etymologies, 2 pronunciations
What should be done in entries where there are three separate etymologies (with POS subsections), but two of those have the same pronunciation while the third etymology/POS has another pronunciation? There seems to be no way to nest the sections properly in this case, but duplicating the pronunciation is probably not desirable either. —CodeCat 18:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Add labels or the like to pronunciations. We already do that in some places. --WikiTiki89 18:22, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That seems kind of haphazard though, at least considering we don't usually do it this way. Should we standardise on a method that will work in all cases? —CodeCat 18:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * We've been doing it this way for a while. It's just not very common. --WikiTiki89 18:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've also seen entries that nest Pronunciation under numbered Etymology sections, or entries that have numbered Pronunciation sections with POS sections nested under them. There doesn't seem to be an agreed standard format that other entries can/should be converted to. —CodeCat 18:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Mole shows one possible format. Another possible format would be to have e.g. the nautical section and the physics section say (perhaps using a template) "the same as mole 'burrowing rodent', see above" rather than duplicating all the pron info. - -sche (discuss) 23:39, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Just give each one its own pronunciation section. They're different words, who cares if it's "duplicated". DTLHS (talk) 23:41, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That's how I've done it in the past. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:42, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

cộng đồng mạng việt nam
Wikimedia vietnamese

International characters
How can I insert international characters such as â or š by standard English keyboard in Windows and Ubuntu while transliterating Persian words, of course using User talk:Conrad.Irwin/editor.js? 4nn1l2 (talk) 14:44, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Select "Arabic" in the drop-down menu under the edit box. It has buttons both for Arabic-script characters and for transliteration characters. Everything needed for Persian is there as well. --WikiTiki89 15:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your quick reply but as I said before, I'm using editor.js for editing. Look at this image to understand what I mean. 4nn1l2 (talk) 15:25, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Copy and paste. --WikiTiki89 15:36, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Time-consuming! 4nn1l2 (talk) 15:46, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Or you can make your own custom keyboard with the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (if you use Windows). --WikiTiki89 15:54, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Modern Greek & PoS
Is Modern Greek just a proper noun?

In case of Greek it's an adjective in "the Greek word", right? So isn't Modern Greek in "the Modern Greek word" an adjective too? Or do English linguists claim that it is a combining form used in a compound word (or pseudo-compound word as it isn't spelled compouned like *"Moderngreekword" or *"Moderngreek-Word")? -84.161.47.115 20:31, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I would say Modern Greek word is using the noun attributively. That's how it works for language names like that aren't also adjectives. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:44, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Why isn't Sanskrit also an adjective? It is still used in phrases like "the Sanskrit language". You can say "this word is Sanskrit", but you cannot say "this word is the Sanskrit language", showing that the former is (or can be) an adjective, while the latter can only be a noun phrase. Likewise with "Modern Greek". --WikiTiki89 00:55, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The other option is that these are uncountable common nouns, which explains their use with determiners like "some": "I understand some Sanskrit, but very little Modern Greek". --WikiTiki89 01:00, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, that doesn't happen with religions/philosophies: "I know some Hinduism", but you have to say "this deity is Hindu" rather than "this deity is Hinduism". --WikiTiki89 01:03, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I might be convinced by that argument if I could think of "the" in any kind of attributive construction- but I can't. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:31, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well you drop the "the" in attributive constructions "this Sanskrit language word". But can you say "this word is Sanskrit language"? --WikiTiki89 01:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Is Sandbox for playing?
--Romanophile (talk) 17:30, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Yes. --WikiTiki89 17:35, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

"biases" pronunciation error
(with a "long i" sound in the final syllable)

That's what the discussion of Wiktionary's entry for BIASES says. Surely it means "short i"? It clearly and correctly shows that the second syllable of BIASES is pronounced with either a schwa or a short i, but the discussion says long i. The discussion seems to be going in the direction that I was in when I went to the page in the first place - that many educated people are mispronouncing it BY-UH-SEEZ instead of BY-UH-SIZZ, but it says that the error stems from confusion over Latin 3rd declension. If that were the case, then the LONG E mispronunciation should be what is discussed, not LONG I. At any rate, please don't fix it to imply that the long e version is OK - long e is nothing other than educated people wanting to sound more educated than they are, since they know that bases (pl. of basis), prognoses, and other Latin -is to -es spellings are indeed long e, but they don't know enough to know that dictionaries specifically list irregular pronunciations, and the absence of those means just use regular. Biases, processes, and other similar plurals spoken in educated settings are more and more often being ridiculously mispronounced -SEEZ instead of -SIZZ.

autopatroller
Where is the request page for autopatroller rights?--Charidri (talk) 18:52, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You don't request it, someone else finds you and nominates you. But it is WT:Whitelist. --WikiTiki89 19:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Definitions of (Vulgar) Foreign Language Terms
In foreign language entries, is it better to give simple definitions or translations? To illustrate what I mean, I'll use the example that provoked the question (since vulgarities are the words to which this question applies the most):

One of the definitions of is currently "cunt" (I've seen the word in another Spanish entry too). Many people consider this an offensive word and might be shocked to see it when they simply wanted to know the regular meaning of "conejo" (which is "rabbit"). However, defining it as "vulva" or something similar would be a poor translation of the word, since it doesn't take register into account. On the other hand, that's what the context tags are for. What's the regular way to define such FL words? Andrew Sheedy (talk) 21:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
 * For the entry conejo, I believe that this is the best way to describe it. Yes, people could be offended, but in Wiktionary we do not censor vulgarities - we make a point of it at What Wiktionary is not. In general, however, ideally, a foreign language entry should consist of as many of the following as possible: A translation, some labels, a quote, a translation, usage notes, derived terms, pronunciation, synonyms, related terms, etymology, example sentences and, if necessary, a gloss definition. For example, I added a "gloss" tag to conejo, because the word cunt has many meanings in English. An example of a good Spanish entry is amistad. Feel free to ask me if you have any more questions, I'm glad to help. --A230rjfowe (talk) 21:58, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, thank you. The question arose in part because another entry that used "cunt" had context tags that didn't indicate an equal degree of offensiveness or vulgarity, and it made me question what the value was in having offensive words in FL definitions in the first place. I oppose censoring in a dictionary, however. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 14:19, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

word addition to the dictionary
Hi there Could you please let me know how or if I can add a word or request a word to be added to the dictionary. I would like to add a word which does not exist yet. I hope to hear from you soon. Philip Toft
 * Adding: read WT:RFE and/or read and understand the wikicode of existing pages (click edit to access the wikicode), type the word you want to create in the search box and click the red link that appears (i.e. “You may create the page "kjhkj" on a blank page”);
 * Requesting: go to the page WT:Requested entries (English) (or another language), add a link to the word and some information about it, if possible. — Ungoliant (falai) 01:28, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

 * It depends what you mean by "doesn't exist yet". If you mean we don't have an entry for it yet, but it's in use, by all means follow the suggestions above. If you mean you just thought up a new word, we don't want it. We're a descriptive dictionary, so we only describe how terms have been used, and new words haven't been used. Please see our Criteria for inclusion. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:36, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/August


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2015/September

accessing existing templates
How does one access existing templates to copy and modify for new articles? For example, I would like to model a conjugation table for the Czech verb "nosit" after the existing template for the Czech verb "nest". Likewise, I would like to model new conjugation tables for Slovenian verbs that lack them after existing templates.
 * Templates are just pages on the wiki. You can see them by adding "Template:" to the name of a template and going to that page. —CodeCat 20:29, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Copying Bulgarian information and using it for Macedonian.
A number of Bulgarian word definitions I find are similar to Macedonian with some slight differences in usage and these aspects are missing in some Macedonian entries, can I take the information from the Bulgarian posts and only if I have to modify it or is there something else I have to do?
 * Copying information isn't a problem if you know the languages well enough- if it's correct, it doesn't matter where you got it from (copyright and plagiarism issues aside). Where you could get into trouble is with the formatting: some templates may be different in some of the details (or even have no counterpart), and language codes would need to be changed. For instance might look like just a way to output "🇨🇬" in etymologies, but it would put your Macedonian entry in Category:Bulgarian terms derived from Proto-Slavic- you would want  instead. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Word that can be both a preposition and a postposition?
According to Wikipedia, this would be called an ambiposition, although this term also has other meanings. Should we use this as a POS header and category? If not, what alternative is there? —CodeCat 20:28, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we can just call it a preposition. The important thing is that it is word that takes a noun as an argument and creates an adverbial or adjectival (or possibly other) phrase. --WikiTiki89 21:15, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * A preposition goes before its phrase, so it wouldn't be correct for a postposition. I'm asking this for the case of Northern Sami, which has prepositions, postpositions and ambipositions. They're all part of the same general word class, yes, but they're still distinct. Surely we need to indicate which is which? —CodeCat 21:31, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Etymologically, you're right, but this is a useless distinction. For example, adverbs don't have to modify verbs and French has adjectives that come after the noun and some that come before the noun, but that doesn't mean we need to have two separate parts of speech for them. We can just mention in our glossary that our definition of preposition also includes postpositions and ambipositions. --WikiTiki89 21:42, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Or we could use "adposition" instead. I oppose using "preposition" for anything other than a preposition. —CodeCat 21:46, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That would be nice, except that none of our readers would have any clue what "adposition" would mean. According to Oxford Dictionaries, a preposition is "A word governing, and usually preceding, a noun or pronoun" (emphasis mine), so I don't see the problem with classifying postpositions as prepostions. --WikiTiki89 22:11, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * As long as we use "Postposition" and "Circumposition" as headers and categories, "Preposition" must refer to preposed words by default. So if we are to use "preposition" in this odd generic sense, then at the very least you should make a proposal to merge headers and categories for all other adpositions to "preposition". —CodeCat 23:20, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That is basically what I was saying. You want me to make a formal proposition? (Also, by your definition, is from not a preposition in Where is that from?) --WikiTiki89 20:14, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That would definitely be a "dangling" preposition. from still precedes its NP before the syntactic move stage. If it had been pied-piped, that relationship would have been clearer. At this phase, since many speakers would find *From where is that? ungrammatical, we normally analyze that use of from as the particle compliment of a particle verb. — JohnC5 21:34, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * But nevertheless, from is not preceding a noun, so I'm sarcastically asking CodeCat: how can we call it a "preposition"? --WikiTiki89 15:11, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Roger that! Sarcasm noted. :) — JohnC5 13:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Where can I request the creation of new Macedonian conjugation charts or where can I get help with this?
Macedonian needs a new conjugation chart for verbs that use a noun or who require short pronoun clitics to show person. Where can I go to request this or who can I work with to make this?

Mention of Late Latin word
In trying to create an Ethymology section, I see Wiktionary often uses etyl and m. The former supports "LL." as parameter, but m produces an error, "The language code is not valid". E.g. . (I tried some variations but no luck.) What should be used here? –Krinkle 13:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Late Latin is what we call an "etymology-only language". We consider it a form of Latin, but we categorize it separately from Classical Latin for purposes of etymologies. That means you can use  inside etyl, but inside m (and l and t for that matter}}, you have to use  :  . —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:49, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

"invariable" vs "indeclinable"
Currently, Swahili adjectives that do not inflect have the former on the headword-line but the latter is used for the category. Which is preferable/clearer, or is the current bipolar situation actually a good thing? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:42, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Adding pronunciations
Hi, I'm thinking about adding audio files for the Portuguese entries in the dictionary. I downloaded the list of members of the Category "Portuguese lemmas" (~45k), randomized it, and started recording. Uploading the files to commons also seems simple enough to automate. My only concern is: is there any recommended automated way of batch editing the Wiktionary in order to link to the commons files?

By the way, I'd be grateful for feedback on these samples: --Artefacto (talk) 01:25, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Be sure to tag the accent of the pronunciations (Lisbon, right?). If you prefer, I have a list of Portuguese words sorted by frequency here. The advantage over Portuguese lemmas is that it includes common inflected forms (surely words like needs pronunciation more urgently than the likes of ), but it doesn’t include phrases. Feel free to contact me if you have any question regarding our Portuguese content.
 * As for automation, you can use WT:AWB or a bot. — Ungoliant (falai) 01:35, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

 * It's my undertanding that User:DerbethBot, run by User:Derbeth, automatically finds audio files that exist on Commons but aren't in entries, and adds them to entries. - -sche (discuss) 02:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Please make sure files are properly named (correct: File:Pt-país.ogg incorrect: File:Bloco de Esquerda.ogg) and placed in commons:Category:Portuguese pronunciation. My bot will then add them automatically. --Derbeth talk 05:48, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

mahlen
It's a German verb with a 'weak past' which qualifies it for the category 'German weak verbs', but it's class 7 strong. Should there be some kind of note stating its irregularities in the entry? ~Eloquio (talk) 18:25, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Seax; worth adding this additional use?
Hi all,

I've noticed that in the UK, Seax also relates to the Essex County Council Records Office archive searching tool / application; http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/.

Initially, I thought this was an acronym for "Search Essex Archives... something" or "Storehouse of Essex Archives...something", and queried the acronym with the office via email, out of curiosity more than anything. They came back to say that Seax in their usage for the search application isn't an acronym at all, but is the name given to a sword or dagger (as the Wiktionary entry correctly states), and that which appears on the Essex Coat of Arms, viewable here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex.

Not being able to find the abbreviation details on-line, I just wondered if it was worth me adding something to the seax article to cover this use by Essex County Council?

Regards

Jams Watton (talk) 08:35, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Well, the search system (that I have actually used in my family history research) is called though, of course, its name is derived from . Can you find, in say Google book search or similar, three independent uses of the term? If so, we could have an entry for it. SemperBlotto (talk) 09:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Trying to make an edit
I'm sure I'm making some stupid mistake here, but I'm trying to update this page: https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

As you can see from the word at the start of the page and in the table on the right, the word should be прокуратура. However, in the Морфологические и синтаксические свойства section, it is just "прокурату́р". I'm just trying to add the 'a' onto the end. It tells me to talk to an administrator, but I can't figure out how. I'm sorry for bothering you with this, but I can't seem to figure out what to do.
 * Whether it's a mistake or not, it's there (Russian Wiktionary), not here (English Wiktionary). Maybe one of our editors who also edits over there can help you. Chuck Entz (talk) Chuck Entz (talk) 00:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I made the change with no problem (and I'm not even an admin there or anything). --WikiTiki89 14:50, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know why it let you and not me, but thanks for the help!

It seems to be happening with other pages too. Like when I tried to add a stress mark to the word on this page: https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C Is there anything I can do, or should I just not be trying to edit these pages?
 * Well what exactly happens when you try to edit the page? --WikiTiki89 15:17, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This sort of sounds like some kind of abuse filter that looks at edit counts. Maybe if they do a few minor edits like fixing typos it will give them enough edits to clear the threshold. Another possibility is a block, perhaps of their IP or even range of IPs. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:18, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Creating a Wikitionary for a language - a comprehensive guide
Hi Team mates,

My mother tongue is Tulu which is spoken in the Dakshina Kannada region in the State of Karnataka, India. Because the population of speakers is small, it is not recognized to the degree that it needs to be. I have a Facebook group, where we have created a document with a containing both English and Tulu words (written in English alphabet). Was hoping for guidance in starting one for Tulu. I have been hunting for a comprehensive set of steps (to serve as my checklist of sorts). Hope to hear back from my team-mates here.
 * Note that it may be more useful to just help out with Tulu here on the English Wiktionary. We already have a number of entries in Tulu (see Category:Tulu lemmas). You can use those as a guide to create more entries. If you really want to create a Tulu-language Wiktionary, you can follow the instructions at Wt/tcy. --WikiTiki89 15:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

latin verbs
In the etymology section, when latin verbs are mentioned, only three forms are given : active present singular first person (ex : timeo, I fear), the active present infinitive form (timere, to fear), the active perfect singular first person (timui, I feared) and that's all. However in latin, when you have to cite a verb, you normally have to cite 5 forms. In addition to the three that was used above, one normally have to use the active present singular second person ( times, you fear ; between timeo and timere) and the last form that has to be given is "supine" (in latin supinus but there is no corresponding form in English so it is difficult to explain. In fact, this form is only used when the verb has to complete a verb that gives a movement like "to go") that doesn't exist for all verbs but if it exists, this form has to be given. (Here for timere, it is timitum). So, in this example, the correct way to name the verb to fear in latin is : "timeo, times, timere, timui, timitum" because without that it is impossible to determine all the conjugation of this verb.
 * That's not true; the standard forms given, known as the principal parts, are essentially what we give on Latin headword-lines as it is. Etymologies need only give the lemma. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 23:00, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Adya Ceramic
An item called "Adya Ceramic" Filter system, a trade name or a item?

Is hound inherited/descended from *ḱwṓ?
From a purely phonological point of view, this is clearly false, as the modern word has a dental consonant in it that the Proto-Indo-European word lacks, which cannot be explained through regular sound changes. Yet it's obvious that it's still derived from it. So I am wondering, can be considered a direct descendant of ? Or is it a descendant of a derived form of it? Would we consider to be inherited from PIE, even though it is not a phonological descendant of a PIE form? —CodeCat 21:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I would not call it a direct descendant of . PG is presumed to come from, which is comes from the same root as  does, but there is (AFAIK) no extra-Germanic evidence for , so we can't be sure that the form with the dental extension is even IE in provenance. It's a descendant of the root  for sure, but not of the noun . —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:44, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Why isn't this in the WT:ES? --WikiTiki89 14:43, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It was intended as a more general question to assess what we might consider "inheritance". If you think it should be moved, feel free to. —CodeCat 14:45, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You gave me a legitimate answer, so no need to move. Anyway, I don't understand the purpose of your question. Do you want to know whether should be listed at in the list of descendants at  and whether  can be listed in the etymology of ? Then the answer is yes, but with an explanation that there was some form in between. --WikiTiki89 15:07, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * She probably wants to know whether she can use inherited all the way back to PIE or whether it needs to stop at PGmc. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:26, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Aha, so the question is really about the category Category:English terms inherited from Proto-Indo-European. I'm not sure why we need to make a distinction between "derived" and "inherited", but since we are, I would say that is not "inherited" from  (but is "derived"). --WikiTiki89 15:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Why do Romanians use bad spelling?
Almost all of the Romanians that I’ve met use bad spelling that’s difficult to comprehend, like typing ‘cat’ for cât. My best guess is that the ‘Romanian (Programmers)’ keyboard layout is used frequently and they can’t figure out how to type Romanian letters on it. Other Romanian keyboards don’t have that problem (as far as I know). I want to continue learning Romanian, but the informal writing is very annoying. --Romanophile (talk) 01:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Count Dracula feeds on diacritics. They are deleeceeous. —CodeCat 01:51, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * At least Romanian is not tonal. Imagine trying to decipher text messages in Vietnamese when they're written using the standard Latin letters only... Pfftallofthemaretaken (talk) 20:56, 26 September 2015 (UTC)