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Talk:Current events/Archive 2

New discussions
An important reason to put some effort into this section is that people at the search engines will be searching on current events stories. Probably a very significant percentage of searches on Yahoo, Google, etc., on any given day, are on topics that are big at the moment. If we make an effort of adding relevent links to the Current events page, and then make an effort to create good articles for whatever that page is linking to, we will be able to get lots of traffic from the search engines. We will also establish a reputation for being a place where people can come to find information on stuff that is happening right now.

So be bold in adding new topics to Current events, and feel free to improve the organization of the page.

- Tim

Instructions for archiving Current events
Each month, we archive this by moving the page to a month page (e.g. December 2002), and then create a new "Current events" page. This has the effect of archiving the "Older versions" with the month, and giving us a fresh history every month (and keeps the log of older versions managably small)

Procedure in a nutshell:
 * 1) move this page to "month year" of last month
 * 2) edit this page to copy the header text (and any events from this month)
 * 3) go back to "Current events"
 * 4) edit it to remove the redirect & paste the header text

(feel free to refine these instructions - RobLa 07:13 Jan 14, 2003 (UTC))

After brief discussion with Uncle Ed, I have started also archiving content from this page to the Talk pages of the relevant months. Please date stamp your comments to facilitate this. --Roger 02:24, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * To increase the visibility of the above information, I created the page How to archive Current Events and included the text there. -- Viajero 12:53, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)~

(Discussion continued from Talk:August 2003)
 * Vandalism is where one user removes a universally understood term? Homocide bombing is simple to understand (it's a compound of meanings).
 * Replaces it with their own "made up" term? Homocide bombing is not "made up" any more than "suicide bombeing" (look up the fricken history of them) ... sorry to inform you ... [snip they ... ]
 * the term internationally used? Well Homocide bombing is being used internationally ... but it's just been around 5 yr and the use isn't as regular as to the 20 for the other one ...
 * Wiki policy is to use the most widely understood term? So ... when speaking of crackers wiki should use the term hacker? prior term accurately describes one person and the other doesn't ... but the prior term is more accurate to certian ppl and the other isn't [though the general press uses it much more frequently and inappropriately (I'll let you figure out the differrence if you don't know).
 * "Suicide bombing is a clear and precise term"? Suicide bombing obsucres the victims of the attacks ... not very clear.
 * [snip Fear's defintion]
 * The correct term is suicide bombing on wiki and nothing else? So wiki want to be inaccurate nad misleading? ok ... reddi 14:03, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * reddi, please read what is written make arguments.
 * Dictionaries don't define the vocabulary. To be accepted as such they give generally accepted definitions.
 * --Ann O'nyme 21:37, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Ann, Dictionaries define the vocabulary from generally accepted definitions. (BTW, I am reading the comments, sorry if you can't follow) reddi 14:03, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Has Reddi read anything anyone else has written? His comments suggest he hasn't read a word. For the last time, suicide bombing means the deliberate MURDER of people, carried out by a person who kills THEMSELVES as part of the process. Its meaning could not be clearer. Homocide bombing is a politically manufactured term created to obscure the methodology of the murder. As such it is POV and not in any way wiki-suitable. But then going by Reddi's comments up to now, he won't pay the slightest heed to what is written, will deliberately misrepresent everything said and keep pushing his POV agenda. He can try all he wants. But wiki policy is to use clearly understood, internationally recognised NPOV terminology, not POV spin terms. So the correct term is suicide bomber, nothing else. FearÉIREANN 21:24, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * [snip 'avoid points of the discussion and attack me personally']
 * suicide bombing means the deliberate MURDER of people, carried out by a person who kills THEMSELVES as part of the process? THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S DEFINED AS!!!
 * Its meaning could not be clearer? hmmm ok ... sure it does ...
 * Homocide bombing is a politically manufactured term created to obscure the methodology of the murder? to yours [and others] POV ... YMMV on that ...
 * As such it is POV and not in any way wiki-suitable.
 * [snip attack on me personally again and disreguard the points]
 * I'm not misrepresent anything ... my "agenda" is to be correct in the statements of facts ... apearantly it's nice to avofd the facts, they get in the way of the truth. (see the links @ the top of the page and refer to the misapplication of the terms hacker and cracker )which is very similiar to this discussion))
 * Wiki can go on an be incorrect (if everyone want it to be) ...
 * Wiki policy is to use clearly understood, internationally recognised NPOV terminology? better start using "Martyrdom operation" because BOTH "Homicide bombing" and "Suicide bombing" is not NPOV internationally (BTW, as a side note, each term of the three is a "spin" ... you just spin it one way that you prefer (incorrectly from the definitions, also)).

 * Echo JT. --mav 01:19, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)

How much editorialising is ok?
I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that Current Events entries were meant to briefly summarise breaking stories (with wikification where possible), and provide a link to the original source. But I've noticed a few stories lately where the "summary" includes editorialising that may or may not be reasonable, but is definitely not based on the linked news source. I would think that in an area as potentially contentious as news, selection bias would pose sufficient risk of POV without allowing editorials.

Oh, and while I'm at it: is there are policy on archiving old comments on this rather large page? -- Roger, 15:57, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Roger, these are all good questions. I'm not sure myself what the policy is. So, why don't you suggest a policy? That's what we usually do around here. If others like your policy suggestions, they'll adopt them -- which is the nearest thing to "official policy" a collaborative group like this ever gets. (I'd love to see someone step up and become responsible for the current events page, keeping it trimmed and tidy, etc.) --Uncle Ed 16:13, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

OK, suggested policies:
 * 1) comments in here, referring to particular stories, should be archived at the same time as the actual Current Events page by moving them to the Talk page for the particular month.
 * 2) perhaps an effort should be made to move rambling discussions to the Village Pump
 * 3) Editorialism here should be strongly discouraged; everything in the summary should be justified by the linked news sources. If you think you have a good reason to editorialise, wikify the summary and do it on the detailed page.

The reason for the latter is that news is by its nature controversial, and selection bias alone will tend to make it POV. Editorialising will greatly increase that risk. What do you all think of these points? --Roger 16:29, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Well, I think if you want to volunteer to carry out suggestions #1 and #2, all will applaud you. Anyone who's willing to do the heavy lifting around here quickly earns a lot of respect from the WikiCommunity. As for editorialising, it's going to be just as hard to ensure that POV is properly attributing in current events as it is any of the several controversies which are always simmering at Wikipedia. Can you suggest some specific guidelines that would make it easier? Could you come up with a template of sorts? For example, how would you write about the Israeli PM's threat to kick out Arafat? "Israeli PM vows to exile Arafat for allegedly doing X. Arafat supporters deny any X-doing and vow to do Y." Or what? (I've been looking almost 2 years for a simple NPOV formula. "Help me, Obi-wan, you're our only hope!") --Uncle Ed 18:53, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * OK, I've made a start at archiving discussion. There was so much to start with, I'm afraid I didn't check really thoroughly that everything went to the right month. As for editorialising, I think the summary on Current Events should be restricted to points actually included in the references. This is simple to understand, unambiguous, and NPOV. If you wish to editorialise (whether because you wish to correct perceived bias in the original source, or to expand on obscure points), the appropriate thing is to wikify and have your discussion on a fuller page - where there is room to thrash things out in detail, and experts from all POVs are more likely to review it. For example in one recent three line news summary, only the first 11 words were supported by the linked reference; all the rest may well be fair comment, but a news summary is not an appropriate place to put it IMHO. --Roger 02:30, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

For a start, Arafat is internationally recognised as the head of the Palestinian Authority. So in the interests of NPOV, if one talks about the Israeli PM, then you have to call Arafat by his title too. (I am forever having to NPOV Israeli-Palestinian entries. Pro-Palestinians use blatently POV anti-Israel language, and pro-Israelis use blatently anti-Palestinian language - eg, one side says they are responding to 'x' by doing 'y'. The other side say they are doing 'z' in response to 'y'. You cannot then say such and such a side' actions is reactive, the other side's active, as both claim to be reacting, not initiating. Thus it is important to say in both cases that so and so did such and such, allegedly in reaction to such and such an earlier action. Leave it to the reader to decide if either or both sides are bullshitting. NPOV requires parity of language, which means all entries use balanced terminology. FearÉIREANN 20:02, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Anything about Arafat and the "Palestinian" cause is automatically controversial, as far as I'm concerned. We shouldn't assume ANYTHING is common knowledge or "universally acknowledged". Like, who's the real head of the PA? The prime minister guy, Abbas or something that Bush wants to deal with? Or Arafat? It makes the "one China policy" look simple... --Uncle Ed 15:42, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Technically Arafat is the head. Abbas is his prime minister, just as the Jean-Pierre Raffarin is Jacques Chirac's prime minister. Much of the diplomatic community calls him President Arafat, describing him as "President of the Palestinian Authority", Abbas is the Authority's Prime Minister. Frankly Bush is simply one leader of one country, albeit one which likes to think that it is the only one that counts. Most of the countries in the world disagree with him. The European Union, for example refuses point blank to deal exclusively with Abbas and insists on meeting with Arafat, even where the result, as happened during a recent Foreign ministers Troika visit, is that Israel refuses to meet visiting EU dignatories. It isn't wiki's job to push Bush's agenda, or anyone else's. It is a matter of fact that Arafat is head of the authority, Abbas a prime minister answerable to the Palestinian parliament and the president, with either possessing the power to remove him, as the parliament considered today but avoided making a decision. FearÉIREANN 20:15, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)

1 september?

What timezone is used for events?
I noticed that the Hokkaido earthquake is listed as occuring on 25 September. It occured on the 26 September local time, but the 25 September UTC. In the past I have noticed some events seem to be listed by their local time instead of UTC. -- Popsracer 23:16, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * I've listed a few things a day ahead on the prior day .... but mostly becacuse the news is ahead (like a aussie paper story on a thing happening one the other side of the world). reddi 23:58, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Do we have a policy on this? I imagine in articles themselves, we should always give local time. But this list is a digest of world events, and it could be confusing if they end up out of sequence because they are all at local times. So I would suggest this page (and other almanac pages eg May 2003 etc) use UTC if available. We should add a note to that effect, and individually mark local times as such. -- Tarquin 23:28, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * use UTC? is there a nice UTC ref to check? (mabey puttin' in the UTC [ i.e.,  UTC ] at the top of the page?) like I said above, a few stories I've posted a day before (mainly because the timeline make the downunder and southeast asia 1 day ahead of some things I post) ... It'd be nice to get a standard on this (it's bothered me before, but I didn't say anything) ....  reddi 23:58, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * There used to be a (semi-informal) policy of putting events under the local date (it's probably in the archives, somewhere); however, I agree that putting them all under UTC might be a bit more sensible...
 * James F. 12:58, 26 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * I've done some software and database work for a shipping company (giving me reason to think long and hard about time zones. My favorite when reading a news article is when it gives the time in local time and something I understand (like UTC).  Local time is often important for news. Did that tornado strike during rush hour or while people were sleeping?  On the other hand, I might want to know when it happened local time.  Consider - when did man first set foot upon the moon?  July 20 or 21, 1969?  It just depends on where you were.  It was 1969-07-20 21:56 CDT (GMT-5 where mission control was), which translates to 1969-07-21 2:56 GMT.  User:Ke4roh 14:37, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Not a single mention of the CIA leak for both this and last month? Amazing! -- 212.127.214.105 12:17, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

question on Laura Bush poem
I dont really understand this poem. Maybe because English is not my mother tongue. But, what does it mean Barney's still mad you dropped him? dropped him as left him? Pls, can someone clarify this for me?

Wikis in Current events
(moved from Village pump)

Maybe a dumb question from a newcomer, but why add wiki links to entries on the Current events pages when the articles that are linked to are so often not relevant to the news item in question?

 * We like links. :-) Just look around to confirm that. Excessive linking does make the text hard to read so anything more than a link every three words is bad. So we all should prioritize what we link in that respect. --mav 08:48, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Middle East: New audio tapes, allegedly from Osama Bin Laden, air on the Al Jazeera network.. Interesting. The Reuters report cited says that the tapes were broadcast. A CBS radio report I just heard said that they had not been broadcast, but that Al Jazeera had released text copies of the tapes. RickK 21:49, 18 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Current Events as a redirect page?
I guess it makes a certain amount of sense, and makes archiving much easier. It just kinda surprised me. What's the deal with it? Ed Cormany 00:25, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Personally, I don't like this... --FallingInLoveWithPitoc 01:14, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I suppose what I like least is that it seems to have been done suddenly and unilaterally. I know that it is appropriate to be bold in updating pages, but I don't think that applies to moving and redirecting one of the most trafficked pages on the Wiki.  Other input?  Ed Cormany 01:50, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I liked it as it was, beforehand.
 * James F. 12:36, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Hi all, I was the one who started a new page for November 2003 when I noticed that several people had added material for November 1 on October 2003. I renamed the page to November and deleted the October entries, which I copied to October 2003 since it already existed as a redirect to Current events. If this was not the correct procedure, please accept my profound apologies; I had no intention of changing the way things work here. I wasn't aware of a problem until I saw the postings here. If someone wants to copy November 2003 to Current events or whatever be my guest. For my part, I would be curious to know what exactly is the correct procedure for starting a new month. -- Viajero 13:37, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Ah, sweet irony. Not to place any blame upon you, Viajero, I understand your mistake, but the instructions for archiving the page are at the top of this very talk page.  Maybe I'll have to make that more pronounced by adding a header... Ed Cormany 19:54, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * whoops, hadn't thought to look there... Sorry about that. In any case, I see someone has fixed the redirect issue so I hope no permanent damage done. Thanks for your patience. -- Viajero 20:14, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

POV?

 * People's Republic of China: China's influence surges relative to that of Japan but Chinese diplomacy is also increasingly sophisticated and working with international organisations.

I wonder if we should have a policy that the news page contain only actual breaking news, not editorials? There's nothing that happened today that would make this article or its mention news (as interesting as it is, and as much as it may be relevent to several articles). I've noticed a few of these poping up recently.

 * I agree that such things should not be on Current events, but perhaps we could have a page on Current trends? It could turn out to be interesting :) Nikola 12:33, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

There are also NPOV issues. -- stewacide 06:30, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Wik ... it's from the story "U.N.'s Castro 'Propaganda Forum' Demands End to U.S. Embargo of Cuba" : reddi

Just because a source uses POV language does not mean that that language should be replicated in the article. That publication may be able to use POV language, we cannot. Wik's removal of the references was correct. FearÉIREANN 21:22, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * So you can't call it what it is (as it fit the defintion of propaganda, [ala., information that serves a particular agenda (cuba's), is one-sided, and fails to paint a complete picture; not to mention that supports a political cause [again cuba's])? Hmm ok ... I'll keep that in mind. reddi

 * "call it what it is" -> call it what you say it is. That isn't NPOV. That is POV. The fact that no major state, and only a tiny number of minor ones on the planet supported the US shows just how lacking in neutrality your comments are. If 99% of the planet express one view, and you another, to add in your preferred loaded terms breaks every single rule and guideline on wikipedia about NPOV. This is not the first time you have POVed Current events with clumsy, opinionated language. NPOV involves careful use of language, attribution of comments and POVs, not adding in loaded language that expresses an opinion. As for the article you linked above, could you not find a better source of information than that shoddily written, agenda-driven bit of tabloid-ese? Any attempts to add editorial lines to the Current events will be removed and Wik was 100% to remove that bit of poorly written, agenda-driven tripe. Try learning about NPOV before you begin lecturing on it. FearÉIREANN 00:06, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * call it what MANY say it is AND what it is in it's nature ...
 * That is NPOV, not POV ...
 * LOL@99% ... (lie, lies, and staticstics ... really it's only 98 let's not quibble on math BECAUSE it's irrelevant; see below)
 * Alot of nations helped promote Cuba's propagada? ... ok
 * I expressed america'a view of the situation (which is the main view ... the poiint of which is conviently ignored and not expressed [see bilateral dispute])
 * I didn't "'add''" in any preferred loaded terms ... it is what it is ... and the view of many american officals (which didn't participate in the propaganda forum) ...
 * not the first time i've POV'ed Current events? sure, ''whatever, that is IYO ...
 * LOL@ÉIREANN n Breaks every... which guideline on wikipedia? mabey the "ignore all rules" guideline? mabey not ...
 * The fact it's a bilateral dispute and it's not a matter of the UN (among the others i mentioned previously) ... that show that it is propaganda piece driven by mainly 3rd worlders and European (both o' which are biased; mainly from thier already biased press) ...
 * Other nations's views are irrelevant to this ... and their input is a use of propaganda (pretty plain to see, sorry you can't see it (though I don't expect you to ÉIREANN (nor some other individuals on wiki) to see it)) ...
 * This is not the first time you've made allegations of POV Current events @ me and attacked me (ala. clumsy, opinionated) ... but that does nothing for you points (and detracts from them)
 * NPOV involves careful use of language? why don't you look up propaganda in a dictionary and take out your POV and "try" to see (though I doubt you will, nor can) ....
 * Attribution of comments and POVs? It was facts from the article ...
 * Adding in "loaded" language? IYO ...
 * "shoddily written, agenda-driven bit of tabloid-ese"? again IYO ...
 * So ANY editorial lines to the Current events should be removed? I'll then make sure I to remove the editorial lines of europeans and 3rd world nations ....
 * [snip rest o' ÉIREANN's POV / personal attack]
 * I really don't care and it's largely irrelevant though, because ppl can see it for what it is ... a non-binding and non-enforceable piece of propaganda ...
 * Sincerely, reddi

Where do you draw the line? should use of terms be avoided if others see them as POV [though they fit the descriptioon of the word)? What's the policy on news page editorials? Feedback please? reddi

Lead Item? (or Don't confuse context for other things)
Maveric149, why make context links only whenthere is a chance that the event should be included in that article? it's easier to see each article when they are categorized ... it's distracting? It's more info and really easier to see (each news item) .. context links have been thjis way for the last month or 2. It was discussed and that was the general consensus (IIRC) [since there is alot of new item] ... I'll look to see if I can find the discussion ... reddi

---

Come on people, context headers are for specific events and subjects that relate to the article in question.

 * Context headers are for only specific events and subjects? They should be used generally ... less confusing and esier to read ....

Things like:
 * Jessica Lynch : Book reveals details of capture and captivity. She was treated brutally (resulting in Lynch's shattered body) and, says medical records, confirm she was anally raped. Book says some Iraqi doctors said Lynch was virtually dead.

"Jessica Lynch" is the subject of the entry, not the context! " Book reveals details of capture and captivity." is not a complete sentence. Why? Because the subject has been ripped from it and is posing as a context link. Bad form.

 * "Jessica Lynch" is the context .. the subject is the book.

Another example:
 * Solar system: The sun surprises astronomers by launching another solar flare, this time the largest ever recorded.

The Solar system is a place, not the context!

 * The Solar system is the context (mabey science would be better though) ... solar flare is the subject.

Yet another example:
 * Space: After 26 years, and at a distance from Earth of over 8 billion miles, Voyager 1 exits the solar system. It is expected to keep on transmitting into the 2020s.

Same as above. Before this had a "context" of Voyager 1 and then mentioned and linked to Voyager one again. Very bad form and very distracting.

 * see above [btw, I replaces Voyager 1 with space] ... mabey another cat would be good ... but the context is about space (ala, the investigation of)] ...

Good example of correct context link:
 * Saskatchewan general election, 2003: The NDP government of Lorne Calvert is returned to power with a majority government.

The subject of the entry directly relates to the context link. This is how context links should work.

 * Most of them do relate about the context link

 * I'd like to get a consensus on it ... so is that what everyone else thinks? The last time it was discussed, it was to be used on multiple news items (which has been most days) ... If it generally thought your way is how context links should work, so be it ... but that was not what was arrived @ IIRC ...

If you want to establish that something happened in a particular place, then simply write "In the Place name..." But a place is not the context! --mav

 * Umm ... place and time is all important to context, really ... and it's simplier to read / find articles with a context lead in  ...
 * Sincerely, reddi
 * "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." - Einstien

 * Place establishes place, not context. --mav

 * Place is important to and can establish context ... --reddi

 * It seems the previous concensus is being "willly-nilly" disreguarded ... hmm ok ... another revelation of wiki's ... reddi

Reddi - please never ever revert a page and then mark it as a minor edit. Perhaps you didn't intend it but that creates the impression that you are sneaking through major changes by pretending you are making only minor changes. And please stop writing entries in a form of pidgin english without definite and indefinite articles, verbs, etc. FearÉIREANN 23:40, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * "never ever revert a page and then mark it as a minor edit" ... sorry ... didn't mean to (it's marked by defualt)
 * Perhaps you didn't intend it? no I did not, sorry again ..
 * I was not trying to sneak it (forgot to uncheck it)
 * "form of pidgin english without definite and indefinite articles, verbs,"? first why the "attck"? (are personal attacks here in talk ok?) second ... my americanish can be corrected (though I endeavor to write "proper" english; I didn't think being an "english major" is a prerequistite to write here) [as a side note, attacking my writing skill does NOTHINIG for you, it generally known that it's "red herring" during discussions and attempt to distract from the real point] ... reddi

Islamic conference in Malaysia (6 Nov)
Hang on -- wasn't that all over about three weeks ago? I'm assuming the reference is to the summit of the OIC (= Org of Islamic Conference, not "Countries"). Or is this a different event? Hjr 01:55, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * your right, it was only a select band of foreign ministers gathered in Damascus to confer on Iraq. --- will make the change reddi

 * stout work! Hjr 05:21, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Prince Charles (was: Prince William)
The Prince William information is entirely too long for this page, and makes no sense. Can someone summarize it? RickK 04:08, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * What Prince William information? Maybe it has been deleted but I can't see anything about Prince William. -- Popsracer 04:19, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

If you mean this: "# In the United Kingdom, the Prince of Wales issues a denial of an unspecified allegation whose publication has been prohibited by court injunction granted against the Mail on Sunday tabloid newspaper. The injunction had been granted to one former Royal Aide, but earlier today The Guardian newspaper had been granted permission to name a person who had sought an injunction. Sir Michael Peat, the Prince's Private Secretary who issued the Prince's statement, attacked the person who had made the original allegation now subject to a court injunction, describing him as someone 'who, unfortunately, has suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and has previously suffered from alcoholism following active service in the Falklands' and who has a history of making wild allegations which when investigated by police were found to be untrue. Peat justified the Prince's statement by saying that the United Kingdom has been awash with rumours on the issue for the last week and that the Prince's unprecedented statement was intended to kill off the unfounded speculation. The Prince's Household was previously embroiled in allegations of homosexual rape involving a member staff, amid the allegation that the Prince failed to take appropriate action against the person who allegedly committed the offence. [4] [5]"..... It relates to Prince Charles, not William. Background: Royal footman George Smith stated in 1996 that he had been raped by another male member of the Royal staff in 1989. It has been alleged that that person was Michael Fawcett, an aide to Prince Charles - charges were never brought. It has been further alleged that George Smith, in a tape-recorded interview with Diana, Princess of Wales, stated that he had once discovered a "high-ranking royal" in bed with "a member of the staff".  It has been speculated that this was Prince Charles with Michael Fawcett. The British press is forbidden to publish Michael Fawcett's name in connection with these allegations, and Prince Charles has just denied "the allegation that dare not speak its name".  How to summarize? Perhaps "Prince Charles denies George Smith discovered him in bed with former aide Michael Fawcett"? -- Someone else 04:26, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Whoops, my eyes glazed over at all that text. :) It was Prince Charles.  RickK 04:29, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think it's obvious that there's enough info available for anyone to connect the dots. Maybe an American with the 1st Amendment supporting him or her could connect the dots on current events for us... (though I expect the allegation is in fact false (it's far too fantastic), but this business with "unspecified allegations" is really stupid and annoying.) Oh, and it's been reported that the allegations have been published on a Swiss website; Google brings up http://www.gay.ch/family/charlesgay.html - in German, the Babelfish translation is appropriately awful, but vaguely readable... Anonymouse 15:07, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * If non-UK news sources (CNN, TASS, Zeit, Le Monde, whatever) were reporting the "supressed" information then so should wikipedia (you're quite right that the "unspecified" business is annoying). I don't believe this is the case (yet), so we'd be reporting nothing more than whispered gossip.  Even the german page to which you refer is written in the form of a question ("did this or that happen?").  Given that wikipedia is merely a regurgitator of other people's news stories (and this is utterly unable to check sources in a journalistic manner) I think we should stick to reporting what fairly major news outlets do. -- Finlay McWalter 15:36, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It is written very carefully to avoid any legal complications. That is why it is so long. I knew the details through through media contacts but at the time could not say anything more as I could not find a reliable secondary and tertiary source of the story that I could credit and so justify reporting it. All the story that day could say is that a denial had been issued of a topic that could not in British law be discussed because of a legal injunction, repeat what Sir Michael Peat said, and in true journalistic style hint at what the topic was about in neutral newstyle language. (When these issues arise, they have to be covered in a very word-specific manner that usually requires considerable length.) The allegation, BTW, is not simply that the former servant in question (who has a history of making allegations which in one case were investigated by the police who dismissed it) claims he saw the Prince of Wales in bed with a male staff member (two of his uncles on his mother's side were bisexual) but that, to put it sensitively, the relationship with the Prince of Wales may have protected that employee from prosecution over a rape allegation. However it must be stressed that (a) no prosecution has ever taken place; (b) no evidence of the alleged homosexual rape has ever been provided; (c) the 'witness' of the POW's supposed antics with this aide happens also to be the person who claimed he was raped, so is hardly a neutral source; (d) there is not a shred of evidence that the POV is in any way bisexual, (e) the supposed homosexual rapist and 'lover' of the POW has never been known to show any homosexual inclinations and is in fact married with kids, and (f) the 'accuser' in the rape, and the supposed witness in the POW sex act, is viewed by those close to him, including family members, as a 'serial fantasist' who has made other wild allegations later disproven and is thought by those closest to him to suffer from medical problems.

Thus the issue resolves around the reputations of three people; two are generally seen as innocent and the victims of a serial fantasist and a tabloid newspaper with its own 'Bash Charles' agenda, and the third may be a mentally unstable man who needs help and for whom the exposure of his claims may well prove emotionally harmful and embarrassing both to him and his family. So while there is a story here, it does have to be handled with care because, apart from anything else members of the accused's family are worried as to whether it might push him over the edge (ie, attempt to take his own life). There are also children of both men accused who may be hurt. If there is truth in the allegations, then they can and should be exposed. But if as is widely believed they are the delusions of a sick man they do have to be handled with care. The determination of one tabloid to publish them, when the only evidence is a legal claim by a potentially unstable man, is not seen as justifiable journalism within mainstream journalism. Wikipedia thus has to be careful not to simply repeat as of yet unpublished tabloid claims that may be the work of a mentally unstable fantasist with a history of far-fetched claims. NPOV sets higher standards than British tabloids, where fact takes second place to circulation. FearÉIREANN 20:41, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Putting US TV shows on Current events
Reddi opted to put references to the launch of a US cartoon series on a US TV channel on the Ce page. I have removed it. The premiering of a US cartoon series on a US cartoon channel is by no stretch of the imagination news. It is of minimal interest to most US wikipedians (except people in the broadcasting business who live, eat and breath TV schedules) and of no interest to non-US wikipedians. That sort of stuff belongs in a TV guide, not advertised on our Current events page. Nor is a bit of US show-biz gossip about something called The Partridge Family of any relevance to the page, not unless we are prepared to be swamped by similar notes about programmes on British, Irish, Canadian, Australian, French, German, Saudi, South African, Tanzanian, Zimbabwian etc TV. TV schedules are rarely of interest to anyone other than a minority of people in their own country and almost 0% elsewhere. Put that sort of entertainment stuff on here and you might as well put on info on David Beckham's latest haircut, etc as well, for it has the same news value. FearÉIREANN 21:49, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * So entertainment premiers are not CE worthy? must not be ...
 * The cartoon channel isn't international? I thought it was ... [it is international ]
 * "minimal interest"? YMMV ... it was SW ...
 * OK ... entertainment premier info from now on will be avoided [from me @least] ...
 * Another entertainment item was put on here ... but mabey it should not have been ...
 * reddi

Well since the page is reporting news items of world significance/interest, I would say what appears on a minor US TV channel doesn't particularly rate since no-one outside the US has any possibility of seeing it in any reasonable timescale. As to The Matrix Revolutions, at least that did have a simultaneous release in large parts of the world, so it's more justifiable to include that (even if it does seem to have had a bit of a critical panning). -- Arwel 22:21, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * ok ... The Partridge Family mabey wasn't needed ... but the cartoon one was international. But, anyways, I'll try to refrain from entertainment premier info in general ... sincerely, reddi

 * How in ainm Dé does a cartoon belong on a page about current events? Even if it is international, it might just be relevant in a page on international broadcasting or international media. But has 0% relevance on a page on current events, which covers the sort of things that are likely to feature in the international pages of a newspaper or a news bulletin. FearÉIREANN 22:56, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * How? mabey in the same way as the premier of a fictional story about a computer sytem that controls humans does ... reddi

hardly NPOV
moved from 4 November:

 * Mass media: An example of European mass media coverage distorting the Mideast conflict is publicized.

 * -- Viajero 14:18, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Well spotted Bmills 14:25, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Current events items information needs to be NPOV? =-\ (the working of the listing is NPOV, just the article it appears to be "POV'ed" [by some)) ... many of the news items are from a POV ... reddi

 * That item was by no possible stretch of the imagination a news item; it was simply an editorial, This page is called Current events, not Recent OpEds.  -- Viajero 12:47, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * It's a news item of how AFP photographers and European media coverage that consistently distorts the Mideast conflict. It's also about the poll from the European Commission and how media biases the audience. reddi

 * Nonsense. It is not news because it does not concern an event. It is the interpretation of how events are presented. As for the poll, it in and of itself may be news, but the explanation this site gives for it -- media bias -- is OPINION. Granted everyone has their own POV, but you aren't even trying to be neutral. Grrrrrr.... -- Viajero 13:41, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * "not concern an event"? it about the distortion events (ala. negative interpretation by the media) of reports of the Mideast conflict.
 * The poll is explaned by media bias. This is an example of that ...  I tried to be neutral in the description of the item (the reader can look @ the page and decide; but it's removed, now so ppl won't be seeing that) ... =-| =-\ ...reddi

 * No, the results of the poll are NOT "explained" by media bias. That is simply that website's analysis of the poll. I live in Europe; I could offer other opinions as to why the results are the way they are. But that is ENTIRELY beside the point. There is a difference between FACT and OPINION. That the European Commission took a poll is a fact. That the results of the poll can be explained by media bias is an OPINION. What is it so difficult for you to recognize this distinction? -- Viajero 14:31, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * yes, the results of the poll are "explained" by media bias (among other things).
 * It's a analysis statement of what drove the poll's data.
 * [snip 'Europe']
 * [snip 'FACT and OPINION']
 * =-\ reddi 14:48, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Can't see how you can suggest that the article linked to was anything other than a highly subjective and inflamed editorial/comment piece, with phrases like EUROPEAN VILIFICATION OF ISRAEL scattered 'liberally'. As for the poll, as Viajero says, there are as many ways of explaining it as there are agendas to sell. Meanwhile, HonestReporting.com expressing an opinion is not a Current Event! Bmills 15:00, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Current events/Archive 2


text:
Talk:Joseph (Genesis)

Historicity
Ref this sentence.

Other scholars have made a case for the historicity of Joseph[29] pointing to recent archaelogical discoveries that support the Old Testament account of Joseph's leadership role in ancient Egypt.[30]

I think that this should be removed, the second RS does not mention archeological discoveries in connection with Joseph at all, (I note that no page number is given) and the first though claiming that scholars regard the Joseph story as fact does not name a single scholar who claims that. Baal is my Lord and Master 21:05, 21 October 2014 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theredheifer (talk • contribs)

Albright school
I would like a section added to the historicity section of the article. The theory that is currently listed is called the JEDP theory. I would like a section on the refute of JEDP to be added. Having both sides of the research is needed in order for individuals to have an accurate representation of the parties involved. I in no way take credit for what I am about to write but would like to bring attention to the website that I am copying this from http://www.evidenceunseen.com/authorship-of-exodus/. I do not claim to be the author of this. This is not the proposed addition but this is what i will state in order to build a case for something being added:

I have taken screenshots since i am currently on a discussion to have been banned from making edits to show that i have sources referenced and am attempting to be civil about the topic at hand. I apologize if something I said is offensive, or if I did not cite my sources correctly. this is my first attempt at an edit on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.208.76.251 (talk) 20:56, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The Albright school ruled archaeology when the dinosaurs ruled the Earth. Anyway, that is pretty much a thing of the past. See why at Also, we have a name for "antisupernatural bias", we usually call it the historical method. Historians do not allow for supernatural events in World War II, nor in the Gallic Wars, nor in the life of Muhammad, so asking that historians allow the supernatural in respect to the Bible is special pleading. Tgeorgescu (talk) 22:37, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Any scholar whose approach is to begin by taking all religious scripture and oral tradition at face value, and who isn't a hypocrite, is going to fall apart the instant they expand their scholarship to other religions around the world. Basically, most of them have to be false—which is why taking an arbitrary religion's texts and starting with a presumption of truth is a losing strategy. The odds are poor. Largoplazo (talk) 23:24, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
 * 108.208.76.251, I don't understand what you're concern is or what you are trying to do. Can you explain why you have posted this? By the way, you are indeed being polite :) Achar Sva (talk) 02:35, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I think this topic is missing, because in the tomb of official Khnumhotep II during the 12th Dynasty there is a panel where a hykso "foreign ruler" wears colorful robes, and his relatives were coming to Egypt to buy supplies. In addition to a statue discovered by Manfred Bietak in Avaris that represents a governor of the province of Goshen, a certain type of lens has located deteriorated pigments in his robe. It is multicolored. However, the foreign governor drawn on the tomb of official Khnumhotep II and the statue of the governor of Avaris have no name... If not the biblical Joseph, it is the Canaanite man who became governor in Egypt who inspired the Hebrew legend Hubrahubra (talk) 05:52, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Moving away
Perhaps scholars are moving away from JEDP, but definitely not in the direction intended by the edit-warring IP. WP:MAINSTREAM WP:SCHOLARSHIP seems to move further away from a literalist-fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. "Modern Bible scholarship/scholars (MBS) assumes that: • The Bible is a collection of books like any others: created and put together by normal (i.e. fallible) human beings; • The Bible is often inconsistent because it derives from sources (written and oral) that do not always agree; individual biblical books grow over time, are multilayered; • The Bible is to be interpreted in its context: ✦ Individual biblical books take shape in historical contexts; the Bible is a document of its time; ✦ Biblical verses are to be interpreted in context; ✦ The "original" or contextual meaning is to be prized above all others; • The Bible is an ideologically-driven text (collection of texts). It is not "objective" or neutral about any of the topics that it treats. Its historical books are not "historical" in our sense. ✦ "hermeneutics of suspicion"; ✦ Consequently MBS often reject the alleged "facts" of the Bible (e.g. was Abraham a real person? Did the Israelites leave Egypt in a mighty Exodus? Was Solomon the king of a mighty empire?); ✦ MBS do not assess its moral or theological truth claims, and if they do, they do so from a humanist perspective; ★ The Bible contains many ideas/laws that we moderns find offensive; • The authority of the Bible is for MBS a historical artifact; it does derive from any ontological status as the revealed word of God;"

- Beardsley Ruml

Quoted by Tgeorgescu (talk) 20:55, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The "edit-warring IP" is correct in saying that scholarship is moving away from the JEDP theory (more often called the documentary hypothesis, but TGeorge is correct in saying that this does not mean they're moving back to Mosaic authorship. In fact they're moving even further away from it, towards more authors/editors and later dates. I suggest to the IP that he/she read the book by Moore and Kelle, which was intended as an introductory text for university/seminary students and is pretty recent (2011). (Current thinking is that the Joseph story was written in order to link the stories of Genesis, which take place in Palestine, to the Exodus story, which has to begin in Egypt - Joseph explains how they got to Egypt). Achar Sva (talk) 21:47, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

joseph died in 1445 BC?!
Abram was born ~2150 BC in the Ur of Chaldeans, no? So by the Bible, Isaac was born ~2050 BC, Jacob ~2000 BC, Joseph ~1900 BC, and he died when he was 110, so this gives deathdate ~1800 BC. How in the name of anything could this be changed by 350 years? Moreover, can I change this date to 1789 BC, or is this the correct date and I'm not seeing something very simple here? JameezWiki (talk) 19:05, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * There's no correct date if by that you mean the year in which any of these characters were "really" born - they're all literary characters without historical reality. However, the Hebrew Bible does contain an elaborate chronology telling the reader how many years had passed between the creation of the world and the birth and death of almost everyone of importance. This is especially true of Genesis, although it becomes harder to follow the books go on and ends with Kings (and then returns for Chronicles and Daniel). Someone presumably added it around 164 BC, since the count ends around that year. Anyway, it's permissible to ad dates after creation, but dates in real time, meaning BC, are a misunderstanding of what the biblical authors were doing. Achar Sva (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * JameezWiki: Biblical and Historical scholars agree that many of the figures (both Jewish and Gentile) from the Bible are in fact real people that can be traced and placed in the same time and place as ascribed by the Bible. For example, it was once believed that the Bible had simply made up the Assyrians since no historical evidence had been found (up to that date) of that people group and places. So ignoring the contrary POV stated by Achar Sva above, their overall point that one cannot ascribe a birth/death date to a Biblical personage based solely on the Biblical text is correct. Ckruschke (talk) 19:17, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * If you can't ascribe a date to a biblical figure, then why is it being ascribed in this article? Don't include the deathdate! (I have removed the date of death, makes sense to me) JameezWiki (talk) 21:33, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * JameezWiki: The dates are there because people want them. They're mistaken, but itb doesn't worry me. To see what the biblical writers were really trying to do, you might look at the article Biblical chronology. Achar Sva (talk) 23:57, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Dates differ 500 years from Britannica's dates
Encyclopedia Britannica says that Moses left Egypt around 1300 BC which puts it way away from the dates in this article which say Joseph got to Egypt around 700 BC. Moses was born after Joseph so you can see where the conflict lies with these two articles 47.220.218.28 (talk) 09:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Historicity Section Needed
It is always surprising and disappointing that largely mythological or literary characters from the Hebrew tradition are treated so gingerly that one can read the article and not even learn, clearly, whether he was a real person or merely a character in a book. Here, for instance, is the Wikipedia entry for Achilles: In Greek mythology, Achilles (/əˈkɪliːz/ ə-KIL-eez) or Achilleus (Greek: Ἀχιλλεύς) was a hero of the Trojan War, the greatest of all the Greek warriors, and is the central character of Homer's Iliad. He was the son of the Nereid Thetis and Peleus, king of Phthia. ZeroXero (talk) 07:31, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * He is covered in the Book of Genesis, so I would assume that all of the book's characters are mythical. The main article on the book already points out that it has no historical basis.:

 * "Genesis is an example of a work in the "antiquities" genre, as the Romans knew it, a popular genre telling of the appearance of humans and the ancestors and heroes, with elaborate genealogies and chronologies fleshed out with stories and anecdotes. The most notable examples are found in the work of Greek historians of the 6th century BC: their intention was to connect notable families of their own day to a distant and heroic past, and in doing so they did not distinguish between myth, legend, and facts. Professor Jean-Louis Ska of the Pontifical Biblical Institute calls the basic rule of the antiquarian historian the "law of conservation": everything old is valuable, nothing is eliminated. This antiquity was needed to prove the worth of Israel's traditions to the nations (the neighbours of the Jews in the early Persian province of Judea), and to reconcile and unite the various factions within Israel itself."
 * "Describing the work of the biblical authors, John Van Seters wrote that lacking many historical traditions and none from the distant past, "They had to use myths and legends for earlier periods. In order to make sense out of the variety of different and often conflicting versions of stories, and to relate the stories to each other, they fitted them into a genealogical chronology." "
 * "David Adams Leeming describes it as the creation myth of both Judaism and Christianity." Dimadick (talk) 12:18, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The article on Joseph itself gives a birth year and a burial location. I think this is misleading without a discussion of historicity. B1c1jones (talk) 21:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Identification - Siptah
He is called "Zaphenat-paneach" in the bible, and "Psothom Phanech" by Josephus. The name looks like the semitic pharoah, Siptah, who had a mother Suti-lija, which looks like Leah, wife of Jacob. The tale of 2 brothers, which dates to Seti I, while Siptah was alive, has been linked to the Joseph tale. Za-Phenat = Si Ptah. Glyphs: https://pharaoh.se/pharaoh/Siptah — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:58B:E7F:8410:D34:E4F6:73B2:E375 (talk) 05:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Joseph
Joseph was not sold by his brothers into slavery. His brothers threw him into a pit. He was later found and sold my merchants (Midianites, I think). Also he did not wind up in jail but as head of a household. It was only later that he was thrown into jail upon a false accusation. (It is not difficult to rthe story and get this right.) 2601:645:581:8270:80B8:45FF:DD04:A3B1 (talk) 12:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, the point of mainstream Bible scholars is that how Joseph became a slave is an excellent example of two different stories which were smashed together without any regard for plot coherence. tgeorgescu (talk) 12:22, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 6 November 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure). There is a consensus against the proposed title due to its ambiguity. However, I do not get the sense that anyone is particularly enamoured with the current title so no prejudice against a future discussion with a new suggested title. Jenks24 (talk) 09:45, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Joseph (Genesis) → Joseph (patriarch) – I believe he is considered a patriarch. Nonetheless, I am requesting a move away from this current title, as (Genesis) is an odd disambiguation, and we should use a descriptor for the person itself. Natg 19 (talk) 17:54, 6 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting.  The Night Watch     (talk)   22:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. The move history of this page is a mess. There has only been one RM (and that was unsuccessful) but lots of other moves: it was moved from Joseph (patriarch) to Joseph (Genesis) in 2016 on the basis that "Some consider Saint Joseph a patriarch". (See this page, for example.) It had previously been moved from Joseph (son of Jacob) to Joseph (patriarch) in 2014, on the basis that "Matthew 1:15-16 tells us that Saint Joseph was the son of a different Jacob". All the other children of Jacob have the "son of Jacob" disambiguator: see Category:Children of Jacob. StAnselm (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment "Some consider Saint Joseph a patriarch" I am middle-aged, and I don't recall ever encountering any text which describes the minor figure from the Gospels as a patriarch. On what authority is that based? Dimadick (talk) 17:01, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I did include a reference. It was linked from the Saint Joseph article and I didn't do any more looking. StAnselm (talk) 17:05, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Sure he IS a patriarch, but most people won't know him as one, they would know him as the figure from the book of Genesis. Lucifer in a maid outfit (talk) 14:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Strong Oppose WP:AT/WP:PRECISE highly ambiguous disambiguator. patriarch is not a good term to use. It is a title used in several churches, so we have Joseph (Nestorian patriarch). Joseph (patriarch) should point to the disambiguation page Joseph (disambiguation) -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 13:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Joseph (Genesis) → Joseph (patriarch) per 65.92.247.90, but would support Joseph (Genesis) → Joseph (biblical figure) or Joseph (Genesis) → Joseph (Genesis figure). A number of entries under Category:Book of Genesis people use parenthetical qualifier "(biblical figure)". Only three other entries — Deborah (Genesis), Naamah (Genesis) and Tamar (Genesis) — use the qualifier "(Genesis)" and those three may be likewise considered for a move to "(biblical figure)" or "(Genesis figure)". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:36, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, (biblical figure) may not work, as Saint Joseph (the father of Jesus) is also a biblical figure. Natg 19 (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Oppose. I have redirected the ambiguous proposed title to the existing dab page at Patriarch Joseph. Srnec (talk) 03:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * And I did the disambiguating for you. ;) I wonder if Saint Joseph needs to be added to the list, having come across Saint Joseph the Patriarch Cathedral while doing so. StAnselm (talk) 05:15, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'd add it. Srnec (talk) 21:06, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment. A nomination listing the other three biblical figures that use "(Genesis)" as a parenthetical qualifier — Deborah (Genesis) → Deborah (Genesis figure), Naamah (Genesis) → Naamah (Genesis figure) and Tamar (Genesis) → Tamar (Genesis figure) — has been submitted at Talk:Deborah (Genesis). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

first paragraph of this wiki page
the following does not make logical sense:

...however, he rises to second-in-command in Egypt and saves Egypt during a famine. Jacob's family travels to Egypt to escape the famine,...

can someone fix this apparent error? 173.2.60.165 (talk) 20:09, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself on when the Joseph narrative was written
“The composition of the story can be dated to the period between the 7th century BCE and the third quarter of the 5th century BCE, which is roughly the period to which scholars date the Book of Genesis.”

“The majority of modern scholars agree that the Joseph story is a Wisdom novella constructed by a single author and that it reached its current form in the 5th century BCE at the earliest.”

Would be worth us editors taking a look at relevant sources to see if we can see where the scholarly consensus/majority stands in 2024.

Römer (regularly quoted as a reliable source on here) argued in 2021:

“The date of the original narrative can be the late Persian period, and while there are several passages that fit better into a Greek, Ptolemaic context, most of these passages belong to later revisions.” IncandescentBliss (talk) 05:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Source for Römer quote:
 * https://www.academia.edu/49108908/T_Römer_How_Persian_or_Hellenistic_is_the_Joseph_Narrative_in_T_Römer_K_Schmid_et_A_Bühler_ed_The_Joseph_Story_Between_Egypt_and_Israel_Archaeology_and_Bible_5_Tübinngen_Mohr_Siebeck_2021_pp_35_53_ IncandescentBliss (talk) 05:03, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Greek-influenced passages in the Book of Genesis? The main article on the book mentions that the primeval history segment (the first 11 chapters) were probably composed in the 3rd century BCE, but we fail to mention specific influences from the Hellenistic period. Dimadick (talk) 13:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and add them! That would be great! IncandescentBliss (talk) 18:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Joseph (Genesis)


text:
Richard K. Morgan

Richard Kingsley Morgan, (born 24 September 1965 in Norwich) is a British science fiction and fantasy author of books, short stories, and graphic novels. He is the winner of the Philip K. Dick Award for his 2003 book Altered Carbon, which was adapted into a Netflix series released in 2018. His third book, Market Forces, won the John W. Campbell Award in 2005, while his 2008 work Thirteen garnered him the Arthur C. Clarke Award.

Early life and education
Morgan was born in Norfolk, and brought up in the village of Hethersett, near Norwich, and had a semi-rural upbringing. He attended private school and later studied modern languages and history at Queens' College, Cambridge. After graduating he started teaching English in order to travel the world. After 14 years and a post at the University of Strathclyde, his first novel was published and he became a full-time writer. He lived in Glasgow until 2015, when he moved to Saxlingham Nethergate with his wife Virginia and their son Daniel.

Literary career
In 2002, Morgan's first novel Altered Carbon was published, combining elements of cyberpunk and hardboiled detective fiction and featuring the antihero Takeshi Kovacs. In 2003 the U.S. edition of Altered Carbon received the Philip K. Dick Award and the film rights were sold for a reported figure of $1,000,000 to film producer Joel Silver, enabling Morgan to become a full-time writer. The film rights were later acquired by Laeta Kalogridis, but production was trapped in development hell for a decade, eventually gaining release in 2018 as a Netflix series.

In 2003, Broken Angels was published, the sequel to Altered Carbon, again featuring Takeshi Kovacs and blending science fiction and war fiction in a similar way to his cross-genre début. The success of this book solidified his literary reputation.

Market Forces, Morgan's first non-Kovacs novel, is set in the near future. It was originally written as a short story, then as a screenplay (both unpublished). After the success of his first two works, it was released as a novel and optioned as a film.

Morgan's third Kovacs novel, intended as the final novel in the series, Woken Furies, was released in the UK in March 2005 and in the U.S. in September 2005. In this novel, the Takeshi Kovacs character comes into his own as a hero, not merely a long-black-coat clad, boilerplate antihero.

Morgan wrote two six-issue miniseries for Marvel Comics under the Marvel Knights imprint. His first story, Black Widow: Homecoming published monthly in 2004 was followed by a second, Black Widow: The Things They Say About Her published monthly in 2005; both are available in collected editions. According to Morgan's official website the series was "an artefact of limited appeal" and is unlikely to be continued, although he has other comic projects in development.

Black Man was released in May 2007 in the UK and in June 2007 in the United States (as Thirteen or Th1rte3n). Later UK editions were published with the Thirteen title. According to the author, the book is about the constraints of physicality and the idea that people are locked into who they are. These are things he could not deal with in the Kovacs universe, because for Kovacs and people like him mortality is avoidable: they just skip into a new body. The novel won the 2008 Arthur C. Clarke Award.

Morgan wrote a fantasy trilogy with a gay protagonist, A Land Fit for Heroes, the first volume of which has the title The Steel Remains and was published in August 2008 in the UK and on 20 January 2009 in the United States. The second volume, titled The Cold Commands was published in 2011. The third book in the series is called The Dark Defiles and was published on 17 August 2014.

Liber Primus Games is creating a gamebook series based on the A Land Fit For Heroes trilogy. The first game was published for Android, Apple and Amazon Kindle Fire devices on 4 November 2015. The release of the PC game was announced in May 2016.

In 2008, he worked with Starbreeze as a writer for Syndicate, the 2012 re-imagining of the 1992 video game. Additionally, Morgan worked with Electronic Arts and Crytek as lead writer for their 2011 video game, Crysis 2.

In October 2018, Morgan's science fiction novel, Thin Air, was published in the UK by Gollancz.

In an interview before the launch of Thin Air, Morgan described a common feature of his works:

"There is a central conceit that I keep — not consciously, I swear! — returning to in my work. It takes different metaphorical guises, but at root it’s always the same sense of something grand and worthwhile being abandoned by vicious and stupid men in favour of short-term profit and tribal hegemony. You see it in the regressive politics of the Protectorate in the Kovacs novels, the way both the Yhelteth Empire and the — so-called — Free Cities fail their duty as civilisations in A Land Fit for Heroes. So also with Thin Air — the landscape is littered with the markers of a retreat from the grand scheme of terraforming and building a home for humanity on Mars, in favour of an ultraprofitable corporate stasis and an ongoing lie of highly emotive intangibles sold to the general populace in lieu of actual progress."

A graphic novel titled Altered Carbon: Download Blues, which continues to follow the character Takeshi Kovacs, was released in July 2019.

An animated feature entitled Altered Carbon: Resleeved was released in 2020 on Netflix.

Morgan's books are generally set in a post-extropianist dystopian world. Morgan described his "takeaway" of one of his books as: Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a wilful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the majority whom the system oppresses.

Takeshi Kovacs novels

 * Altered Carbon (2002) ISBN 0-575-07390-X
 * Broken Angels (2003) ISBN 0-575-07550-3
 * Woken Furies (2005) ISBN 0-575-07325-X

A Land Fit For Heroes

 * The Steel Remains (2008) ISBN 0-575-07792-1
 * The Cold Commands (2011) ISBN 0-575-07793-X
 * The Dark Defiles (2014) ISBN 0575088605

Black Man novels

 * Black Man (2007) ISBN 0-575-07513-9 (known as Thirteen or Th1rte3n in the United States and in later UK editions ISBN 0-345-48525-4)
 * Thin Air (2018) ISBN 978-0575075146
 * Gone Machine (2024) ISBN 978-0575077959

Other novels

 * Market Forces (2004) ISBN 0-575-07584-8

Graphic novels

 * Black Widow: Homecoming (2005) ISBN 0-7851-1493-9
 * Black Widow: The Things They Say About Her (2006) ISBN 0-7851-1768-7
 * Crysys (2012) ISBN 978-16-1377-119-8
 * Altered Carbon: Download Blues (2019) ISBN 978-1524109677
 * Altered Carbon: One Life, One Death (2022) ISBN 978-1524119874

Video games

 * Crysis 2 (2011)
 * Syndicate (2012)
 * A Land Fit For Heroes (2015)

Music

 * "Woken Furies" from the album Dark All Day by Gunship (2018)

Interviews

 * Interview: Richard Morgan - The Sydney Morning Herald
 * Science Fiction Weekly interview
 * Interview with author Richard K. Morgan, "Richard K. Morgan: The New King of Cyberpunk Fiction", Jewels Gallegos Merced 09/19/2005 for JIVE Magazine
 * InfinityPlus interview
 * Morgan Week interviews and reviews
 * Interview Clarkesworld Magazine 2008-9
 * Interview on the SciFiDimensions Podcast

title: Richard K. Morgan


text:
Unstrut-Hainich-Kreis

Unstrut-Hainich-Kreis is a Kreis (district) in the north of Thuringia, Germany. Neighboring districts are (from the north clockwise) the districts Eichsfeld, Kyffhäuserkreis, Sömmerda, Gotha, Wartburgkreis and the district Werra-Meißner in Hesse.

History
The district was created on 1 July 1994 by merging the two previous districts of Mühlhausen and Bad Langensalza.

Partnerships
The district has a partnership with the Wetteraukreis in Hesse dating back to the German reunification of 1990. The district also has a partnership with the Lithuanian districts Ukmerge and Raseiniai.

Geography
The district is named after the river Unstrut and a hill chain, the Hainich. The Hainich became the 13th national park of Germany in 1997.

Coat of arms
The coat of arms combines the symbols of the historical territories which make up the area of the district. In the top left is the eagle of the city Mühlhausen, in the top right the lion as the symbol of the dukes of Thuringia. In the bottom left is the Wheel of Mainz, and the deer antler in the bottom right is the symbol of the Principality of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen.

title: Unstrut-Hainich-Kreis


text:
Melvyn Bragg

Melvyn Bragg, Baron Bragg, (born 6 October 1939) is an English broadcaster, author and parliamentarian. He is the editor and presenter of The South Bank Show (1978–2010, 2012–2023), and the presenter of the BBC Radio 4 documentary series In Our Time.

Earlier in his career, Bragg worked for the BBC in various roles including presenter, a connection that resumed in 1988 when he began to host Start the Week on BBC Radio 4. After his ennoblement in 1998, he switched to presenting the new In Our Time, an academic discussion radio programme, which has run to more than one thousand broadcast editions and is also a podcast. He served as Chancellor of the University of Leeds from 1999 until 2017.

Early life
Bragg was born on 6 October 1939 in Carlisle, the son of Stanley Bragg, a stock keeper turned publican, and Mary Ethel (née Park), who worked alongside her husband in the pub. Both the Braggs and Parks, Cumberland families, were agricultural labourers, also working at collieries and in domestic service. He was given the name Melvyn by his mother after she saw the actor Melvyn Douglas at a local cinema. He was raised in the small town of Wigton, where he attended the Wigton primary school and later The Nelson Thomlinson Grammar School, where he was Head Boy. He was an only child, born a year after his parents married. His father was away from home serving with the Royal Air Force for four years during the war. His upbringing and childhood experiences were typical of the working-class environment of that era.

When he was a child, he was led to believe that his mother's foster mother was his maternal grandmother. His grandmother had been forced to leave the town owing to the stigma of her daughter being born illegitimately. From the age of 8 until he left for university, his family home was above a pub in Wigton, the Black-A-Moor Hotel, of which his father had become the landlord. Into his teens he was a member of the Scouts and played rugby in his school's first team. Encouraged by a teacher who had recognised his work ethic, Bragg was one of an increasing number of working-class teenagers of the era being given a path to university through the grammar school system. He read Modern History at Wadham College, Oxford in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

Broadcasting
Bragg began his career in 1961 as a general trainee at the BBC. He was the recipient of one of only three traineeships awarded that year. He spent his first two years in radio at the BBC World Service, then at the BBC Third Programme and BBC Home Service. He joined the production team of Huw Wheldon's Monitor arts series on BBC Television. He presented the BBC books programme Read All About It (and was also its editor, 1976–77) and The Lively Arts, a BBC Two arts series. He then edited and presented the London Weekend Television (LWT) arts programme The South Bank Show from 1978 to 2010. His interview with playwright Dennis Potter shortly before his death is regularly cited as one of the most moving and memorable television moments ever. His interest in popular as well as classical genres is credited with making the arts more accessible and less elitist.

He was Head of Arts at LWT from 1982 to 1990 and Controller of Arts at LWT from 1990. He has made many programmes on BBC Radio 4, including Start the Week (1988 to 1998), The Routes of English (mapping the history of the English language), and In Our Time (1998 to present), which in March 2011 broadcast its 500th programme. Bragg's pending departure from the South Bank Show was portrayed by The Guardian as the last of the ITV grandees, speculating that the next generation of ITV broadcasters would not have the same longevity or influence as Bragg or his ITV contemporaries John Birt, Greg Dyke, Michael Grade and Christopher Bland.

In 2012 he brought The South Bank Show back to Sky Arts 1. In December 2012, he began The Value of Culture, a five-part series on BBC Radio 4 examining the meaning of culture, expanding on Matthew Arnold's landmark (1869) collection of essays Culture and Anarchy. In June 2013 Bragg wrote and presented The Most Dangerous Man in Tudor England, broadcast by the BBC. This told the dramatic story of William Tyndale's mission to translate the Bible from the original languages to English. In February 2012, he began Melvyn Bragg on Class and Culture, a three-part series on BBC2 examining popular media culture, with an analysis of the British social class system. Bragg appeared on the Front Row "Cultural Exchange" on May Day 2013. He nominated a self-portrait by Rembrandt as a piece of art which he had found especially interesting. In 2015, Bragg was appointed as a Vice President of the Royal Television Society.

Writing
Having produced unpublished short stories since the age of 19, Bragg had initially decided to become a writer after university. He recognised that writing would not, initially at least, earn him a living, and he took the opportunity at the BBC that arose after he had applied for posts in a variety of industries. While at the BBC, he continued writing. Publishing his first novel in 1965, he decided to leave the BBC to concentrate full-time on writing.

A novelist and writer of non-fiction, Bragg has also written a number of television and film screenplays. Some of his early television work was in collaboration with Ken Russell, for whom he wrote the biographical dramas The Debussy Film (1965) and Isadora Duncan, the Biggest Dancer in the World (1967), as well as Russell's film about Tchaikovsky, The Music Lovers (1970). Most of his novels are autobiographical fictions, set in and around the town of Wigton during his childhood. In 1972, he co-wrote the script for Norman Jewison's film Jesus Christ Superstar (1973). Although he published several works, he was unable to make a living, forcing a return to television by the mid-1970s.

Bragg received a variety of reviews for his work, some critics declaring it outstanding and others suggesting it was lazy. Many suggested that splitting his time between writing and broadcasting was detrimental to the quality, and that his media profile and his known sensitivity to criticism made him an easy target for unjust reviews. The Literary Review's prize mocking his writing of sex in fiction, according to The Independent, was awarded not on readers' nominations, but simply because it would be good PR. From 1996 to 1998 he also wrote a column in The Times newspaper; he has also occasionally written for The Sunday Times, The Guardian and The Observer.

Peerage
Bragg's friends include the former Labour Party leaders Tony Blair and Neil Kinnock, and former deputy leader Roy Hattersley. He was one of 100 donors who gave the Labour Party a sum in excess of £5,000 in 1997, the year the party came to power under Blair in the general election. The following year he was appointed by Blair to the House of Lords as the life peer Baron Bragg, of Wigton in the County of Cumbria, one of a number of Labour donors given peerages. This led to accusations of cronyism from the defeated Conservative Party.

In the Lords he takes a keen interest in the arts and education. According to The Guardian in 2004, he voted 104 times out of a possible 226 in the 2002/3 session, only once against the government, on the Hunting Act. He campaigned against it on the grounds that it could affect the livelihoods of Cumbrian farmers. In August 2014, Bragg was one of 200 public figures who signed a letter to The Guardian opposing Scottish independence in the run-up to September's referendum on that issue.

Advocacy
Bragg has defended Christianity, particularly the King James Bible, although he does not claim to be a believer, seeing himself in Albert Einstein's term as a "believing unbeliever", adding that he is "unable to cross the River of Jordan which would lead me to the crucial belief in a godly eternity." In 2012, Bragg criticised what he claimed to be the "Animus and the ignorance" of the atheism debate.

In August 2016, Bragg publicly accused the National Trust of "bullying" in its "disgraceful purchase" of land in the Lake District, which could threaten the Herdwick rare breed of sheep as well as the Lake District's historic farming system, for which the region was nominated as a Unesco World Heritage site.

Personal life
In 1961 Bragg married his first wife, Marie-Elisabeth Roche b. 1939), and in 1965 they had a daughter, Marie-Elsa Bragg. Roche was a French viscountess studying painting at Oxford. In 1971, Roche died by suicide. In an interview with The Guardian in 1998, Bragg said, "I could have done things which helped and I did things which harmed. So yes, I feel guilt, I feel remorse." This was in part a reference to his infidelities which included Cate Haste, whom he married in 1973. She was also a television producer and writer, whose literary work includes editing the 2007 memoir of Clarissa Eden, widow of Anthony Eden, and collaborating with Cherie Booth, wife of Tony Blair, on a 2004 book about the wives of British prime ministers. They had a son and a daughter.

In June 2016 it was reported that Bragg and Haste had separated amicably, and that Bragg now shared a home with former film assistant Gabriel Clare-Hunt, with whom he had an affair that began in 1995. She is 16 years younger than him. The marriage between Haste and Bragg was dissolved in 2018 and Haste died in April 2021. Another reported affair was with Lady Jane Wellesley between 1979 and 1987.

In September 2019 he married Clare-Hunt at St Bega's Church in Bassenthwaite, part of the Lake District National Park. His eldest daughter, Marie-Elsa, a priest, conducted the service. His second daughter, Alice, read a lesson, while his son, Tom, was an usher. Guests included Cumbrian mountaineer Chris Bonington and the ceremony featured the premiere of music specially written by Bragg's friend, composer Howard Goodall.

Bragg has publicly discussed two nervous breakdowns that he has suffered, one in his teens and another in his 30s. His first breakdown began at the age of 13. Inspired by a passage in Wordsworth's The Prelude, he found ways to cope, including exploring the outdoors and the adoption of a strong work ethic, as well as meeting his first girlfriend. The second followed his first wife's suicide. He traces the origin of a lifelong nervousness of public speaking to the experience of giving a reading from the lectern as a choirboy at the age of six.

At the age of 75, he was profiled in the BBC Two television programme Melvyn Bragg: Wigton to Westminster, first broadcast on 18 July 2015. He lives in Hampstead, London, but still owns a house near his home town of Wigton. He is a member of the Garrick and Chelsea Arts clubs.

He also takes an interest in football, supporting both Carlisle United and Arsenal. He is the vice president of the Carlisle United Supporters Club London Branch.

Bragg is a relative of William Henry Bragg and his son Lawrence Bragg, who were awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1915 for their work in x-ray crystal structure analysis. He presented a Radio 4 programme on the subject in August 2013.

Positions and memberships

 * President of the Words by the Water literary festival
 * President of the National Campaign for the Arts (since 1986)
 * Domus Fellow, St Catherine's College, Oxford (1990)
 * Chairman of Border Television 1990–96 (deputy chairman 1985–90)
 * Honorary Fellowship from Wadham College, Oxford (1995)
 * Governor of the London School of Economics (since 1997)
 * Peerage – Baron Bragg (since 1998)
 * Chancellor of the University of Leeds (1999–2017)
 * President of the charity MIND (2002)
 * Honorary Fellowship of the British Academy (2010), for "public understanding of the arts, literature and sciences"
 * Honorary Fellowship of Royal Society (2010)
 * Honorary Fellowship from the University of Cumbria 2010.
 * Honorary Doctorate of Literature (D.Litt.), University College London (2014)
 * President of the National Academy of Writing
 * Vice President of the Friends of the British Library.
 * Chairman of the Arts Council Literature Panel
 * Vice President of the Carlisle United Supporters Club London Branch
 * Member of the Order of the Companions of Honour (CH) (2018)

Awards and honours

 * Literary prizes
 * Writers' Guild Screenplay Award (1966)
 * Mail on Sunday/John Llewellyn Rhys Prize for Without a City Wall (1968)
 * Time/Life Silver Pen Award for The Hired Man (1970)
 * Northern Arts Association Prose Award (1970)
 * Bad Sex in Fiction Award for A Time to Dance (1993)
 * WH Smith Literary Award for The Soldier's Return (2000)
 * Crossing The Lines was long-listed for the Booker Prize

 * Film & television awards
 * Broadcasting Guild Award (1984)
 * British Academy of Film and Television Arts Dimbleby Award (1986)
 * BAFTA TV Award for An Interview with Dennis Potter (1995)
 * BAFTA Academy Fellowship Award (2010)
 * Best New Radio Series for Routes of English (2000)
 * Royal Television Society Lifetime Achievement Award (2015)

 * Other awards
 * Ivor Novello Musical Award (1985)
 * Honorary Degree from the Open University as Doctor of the University. (1989)
 * Namesake of Millom School Drama Studio (2005)
 * The South Bank Show Lifetime Achievement Award (2010)
 * Sandford St.Martin Trust Personal Award (2014)

Novels

 * For Want of a Nail (1965)
 * The Second Inheritance (1966)
 * Without a City Wall (1968)
 * The Cumbrian Trilogy:
 * The Hired Man (1969)
 * A Place in England (1970)
 * Kingdom Come (1980)
 * The Nerve (1971)
 * Josh Lawton (1972)
 * The Silken Net (1974)
 * Autumn Manoeuvres (1978)
 * Love and Glory (1983)
 * The Maid of Buttermere (1987) (based on the life of Mary Robinson)
 * A Time to Dance (1990)
 * Crystal Rooms (1992)
 * Credo (1996) also known as The Sword and the Miracle
 * The Soldier's Return Quartet:
 * The Soldier's Return (1999)
 * A Son of War (2001)
 * Crossing the Lines (2003)
 * Remember Me... (2008)
 * Grace and Mary (2013)
 * Now is the Time (2015)
 * Love Without End: A Story of Heloise and Abelard (2019)

Non-fiction books

 * Speak For England (1976)
 * Land of The Lakes (1983)
 * Laurence Olivier (1984)
 * Cumbria in Verse (editor) (1984)
 * Rich: The Life of Richard Burton (1988)
 * The Seventh Seal (Det Sjunde Inseglet) (1993)
 * King Lear in New York (1994)
 * On Giants' Shoulders (1998)
 * Two Thousand Years Part 1: The Birth of Christ to the Crusades (1999)
 * Two Thousand Years Part 2 (1999)
 * The Routes of English (2001)
 * The Adventure of English (2003)
 * 12 Books That Changed the World (2006)
 * In Our Time: A Companion to the Radio 4 series (editor) (2009)
 * The Book of Books (2011)
 * William Tyndale: A Very Brief History (2017)
 * In Our Time: Celebrating Twenty Years of Essential Conversation (2018)
 * Back In The Day. A Memoir (2022)

Children's books

 * A Christmas Child (1977)
 * My Favourite Stories of Lakeland (editor) (1981)

Screenwriting

 * The Debussy Film (1965)
 * Isadora (1968) (with Clive Exton and Margaret Drabble)
 * Play Dirty (1968)
 * The Music Lovers (1970) (directed by Ken Russell)
 * Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) (co-written and directed by Norman Jewison)

title: Melvyn Bragg


text:
Visingsö

Visingsö is an island in the southern half of Lake Vättern in Sweden.

Visingsö lies 30 km north of the city Jönköping and 6 km west of Gränna from which two car ferries connect the island. The island is 14 km long and 3 km wide, with a total area of 24 km2.

According to legend, a giant named Vist created Visingsö by throwing a lump of soil into the lake so that his wife could use it to step over the lake.

History
In the 12th and 13th century, Näs Castle on the southern end of Visingsö was the residence for the fragile Swedish monarchy. Four Swedish kings died there: Karl Sverkersson, Erik Knutsson, Johan Sverkersson, and Magnus Ladulås. Furthermore, in the 17th century the influential Brahe family resided in Visingsborg, a castle on the eastern side of the island. Both Näs Castle and Visingsborg are presently in ruins and well known landmarks of Visingsö.

The Swedish Navy planted oak trees on the island beginning in 1831 to provide strategically important timber for future ship construction. Once the timber was ready to harvest it was no longer required for ship construction. The Swedish Navy declined to harvest the trees when offered them in 1975. Consequently, Visingsö is partially covered by oak forests, the rest being farmland.

Climate
Visingsö has an oceanic climate (Köppen Cfb), influenced by its position in the middle of the deep lake. As a result of Vättern's depth, it struggles both freezing over in winter as the surrounding landmass is colder, while in summer the temperature of the lake remains fairly cool. The relative warmth of Visingsö in summer is a result of Vättern being relatively narrow, resulting in warm air from the landmass only being slightly tempered. Temperatures below -10 C in winter are not very common annually due to the open water moderating the extremes. In spite of the unfavourable conditions for heat in its deep-lake position, Visingsö has warmer summers than all of the island of Ireland as well as much of Great Britain. Even so, the cold surface water enables air frosts to occur as late as May, in extreme instances. Visingsö is very dry for much of the year, although summers can be relatively wet.

Geology
Visingsö has long been of interest to geologists because of the development of a sedimentary series of rocks (the Visingsö Group) there (and elsewhere around Lake Vättern, especially on the west side). The surrounding rocks are largely much older "Småland granites" of mixed granite-like compositions. The Visingsö Group is approximately 1000 m thick and is divided into three units. It is Late Riphean in date. A wide array of late Precambrian fossils have been recovered from the group, including stromatolites, vase-shaped microfossils, acritarchs and macro fossils such as Tawuia. The sediments of the Visingsö Group have been preserved within the Lake Vättern graben structure.

Transportation
There are two car ferries that travel between Visingsö and Gränna on a continuous basis. There are several roads connecting communities on the island, that are also served by bus. There is also a small airfield on the north end of the island, consisting of two grass runways.

title: Visingsö


text:
The South Bank Show

The South Bank Show is a British television arts magazine series originally produced by London Weekend Television and broadcast on ITV between 1978 and 2010. A new version of the series began 27 May 2012 on Sky Arts. Conceived, written, and presented by former BBC arts broadcaster Melvyn Bragg, the show aims to bring both high art and popular culture to a mass audience. In 2023, it was announced that Bragg would be leaving the series after 45 years.

ITV (1978–2010)
The programme was a replacement for Aquarius, the arts series which had been running since 1970. Presenter Melvyn Bragg was already well known for his arts broadcasting on BBC television, notably Monitor and BBC Two's The Lively Arts. It first aired on 14 January 1978, covering many subjects, including Germaine Greer, Gerald Scarfe and Paul McCartney. It is the longest continuously running arts programme on UK television. From the beginning the series' intent was to mix high art and popular culture. This has remained, and the programme has always focused predominantly on art of the 20th and 21st centuries.

For much of its life, the show was produced by London Weekend Television (LWT) for the ITV network.

In May 2009, ITV announced that the show was to come to an end. Although it was originally reported that the show was ending due to Bragg's retirement, Bragg later made it clear that he decided to leave after they ended the show, and thought ending it was a mistake; according to him, "they've killed the show, so I thought, I'll go as well."

On Monday 28 December 2009 the final ITV edition of The South Bank Show was broadcast, featuring The Royal Shakespeare Company as its subject. Melvyn Bragg announced on this programme that, after ITV's last South Bank Show Awards in January 2010, there would be a series of ten The South Bank Show Revisited programmes transmitted in early 2010, featuring updates on previous South Bank Show subjects.

The production archive for the ITV series, including unaired footage, is housed at the University of Leeds.

ITV had 33 series with 743 episodes, from 1978 until 2010.

Sky Arts (2012–present)
In July 2010, it was revealed that Bragg had bought the rights to the brand and had first right of access to The South Bank Show archives. Sky Arts broadcasts South Bank Show archive editions and hosted the South Bank Sky Arts Awards on 25 Jan 2011, presented by Melvyn Bragg, accompanied by a new arrangement of The South Bank Show theme.

Sky Arts revived The South Bank Show with a new series starting 27 May 2012.

Since 2012 most series only have around 4–6 episodes.

Theme music and visuals
The theme music is taken from Andrew Lloyd Webber's Variations composed in 1977 for his brother, the cellist Julian Lloyd Webber. This is based on the theme from Paganini's "24th Caprice". The brand image of the programme is an animated version of a detail from Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling painting, specifically the image of the Hand of God giving life to Adam. It shows the two hands meeting, generating a lightning bolt.

Subjects
There have been many subjects of the show, including:

 * 1970s
 * Paul McCartney in 1978
 * Ken Dodd in 1978
 * John Peel in 1979
 * Satyajit Ray in 1979
 * Francis Ford Coppola in 1979
 * Rough Trade Records in 1979
 * Talking Heads in 1979

 * 1980s
 * Arthur Miller in 1980
 * Sir William Walton in 1981
 * Sir Laurence Olivier in 1982
 * Catherine Cookson in 1982
 * Peter Gabriel in 1982
 * Julian Lloyd Webber in 1982
 * Gene Hackman in 1983
 * Oscar Peterson in 1984
 * Anthony Caro in 1984
 * Weather Report in 1984
 * Elisabeth Vellacott in 1984
 * Sir Alec Guinness in 1985
 * Francis Bacon in 1985
 * Simon Rattle in 1985
 * John Cleese in 1986
 * Michala Petri in 1986
 * Fay Godwin in 1986
 * Anthony Green in 1987
 * Maria Callas in 1987
 * Eric Clapton in 1987
 * The Smiths in 1987
 * Penguin Cafe Orchestra in 1987
 * John Houseman in 1988
 * Paul Bowles in 1988
 * Ben Elton in 1989
 * John Zorn in 1989
 * Robert Redford in 1989

 * 1990s
 * Mark Morris Dance Group in 1990
 * Pet Shop Boys in 1990
 * Terry Gilliam in 1991
 * Stan Laurel in 1991
 * Douglas Adams in 1992
 * Sir Richard Attenborough in 1992
 * George Formby in 1992
 * Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in 1992
 * Viviana Durante in 1992
 * Anthony Hopkins in 1992
 * Billy Connolly in 1992 and 2010
 * Sylvie Guillem in 1993
 * Paul Simon in 1993
 * Clive Barker in 1994
 * David Mamet in 1994
 * Coronation Street in 1995
 * Miriam Makeba in 1995
 * Clint Eastwood in 1995
 * k. d. lang in 1995
 * Sting in 1996
 * John Galliano in 1996
 * Elaine Paige in 1996
 * Marlene Dietrich in 1996
 * Sir John Mills in 1996
 * Bee Gees in 1997
 * Björk in 1997
 * Iain Banks in 1997
 * Scanner in 1997
 * Gillian Wearing/Gary Hume in 1998
 * Will Self in 1998
 * Bee Gees in 1999
 * Cher in 1999
 * Blur in 1999
 * Tracey Emin in 1999

 * 2000s
 * Judith Weir in 2001
 * Bernie Taupin in 2002
 * Juan Diego Florez in 2002
 * Ewan McGregor in 2003
 * Dance Theatre of Harlem in 2004
 * Ronnie Wood in 2004
 * Sir Malcolm Arnold in 2004
 * The Darkness in 2004
 * John Lennon's jukebox in 2004
 * Iggy Pop in 2004
 * Little Britain in 2005
 * Alan Bennett in 2005
 * Dusty Springfield in 2006
 * Steve Reich in 2006
 * J. G. Ballard in 2006
 * George Michael in 2006
 * Grayson Perry in 2006
 * Gerhard Richter in 2006
 * Jarvis Cocker in 2007
 * Victoria Wood in 2007
 * June Whitfield in 2007
 * Annie Lennox in 2007
 * Eric Clapton in 2007
 * The Nutcracker (ballet) in 2007
 * Nick Park in 2007
 * Tim Burton in 2008
 * Liza Minnelli in 2008
 * James Bond in 2008
 * Will Young in 2009
 * Peter Kosminsky in 2009
 * The Cambridge Footlights in February 2009
 * The Wagner family in September 2009
 * Coldplay in September 2009
 * Disney Pixar in October 2009
 * Elbow in November 2009
 * The Royal Shakespeare Company in December 2009

 * 2010s
 * Tracey Ullman in 2018
 * Jed Mercurio in 2019

Directors
Directors who have made editions of the programme include:

 * Rosie Alison
 * Irshad Ashraf
 * Jack Bond
 * John Bulmer
 * Chris Dooks
 * Don Featherstone
 * Andy Harries
 * Mary Harron
 * James Ivory
 * Margy Kinmonth
 * Ken Loach
 * Jeremy Marre
 * Tony Palmer
 * Ken Russell
 * Susan Shaw

Podcast
From 18 September 2006, ITV released podcast of the interviews from the show, including extra material not included in the broadcast editions.

Awards
The programme has been awarded more than 110 awards (including 12 BAFTAs, 5 Prix Italia and 4 RTS Awards). Pat Gavin's animated title sequences have won two BAFTAs.

Parodies
The comedy series Dead Ringers often parodied The South Bank Show. It does this in a series of sketches called South Bank, a cross between The South Bank Show and the American cartoon South Park, set in the South Bank of London. In these sketches, Melvyn Bragg is Stan Marsh, Alan Yentob is Kyle Broflovski, Mark Lawson is Eric Cartman and Kenneth Branagh is Kenny McCormick.

A sketch in The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer featured Vic Reeves as Melvyn Bragg (with felt-tip marks on his face) presenting a feature on fictional folk singers Mulligan and O'Hare. Reeves depicts Bragg as an unlikely A-Team obsessive.

Harry Enfield's TV film Norbert Smith - a Life is a parody edition of The South Bank Show.

Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant's second series of Extras featured a reference to a fictional episode of The South Bank Show focused on madcap children's television presenters Dick and Dom.

Private Eye tends to parody Melvyn Bragg's name, and Spitting Image would rather accentuate his nasal accent. As Spitting Image was often aired immediately before The South Bank Show, episodes would often end with a send-up of Bragg, most notably in one episode having him advise viewers to switch off their televisions to avoid watching it.

Benny Hill once parodied Bragg in a 1978 episode of The Benny Hill Show as Melvyn Dragg. The name of the show was also parodied, and it was called "The South Blank Show."

title: The South Bank Show


text:
Executioner

An executioner, also known as a hangman or headsman, is an official who effects a sentence of capital punishment on a condemned person.

Scope and job
The executioner was usually presented with a warrant authorising or ordering him to execute the sentence. The warrant protects the executioner from the charge of murder. Common terms for executioners derived from forms of capital punishment—though they often also performed other physical punishments—include hangman (hanging) and headsman (beheading). In the military, the role of executioner was performed by a soldier, such as the provost. A common stereotype of an executioner is a hooded medieval or absolutist executioner. Symbolic or real, executioners were rarely hooded, and not robed in all black; hoods were only used if an executioner's identity and anonymity were to be preserved from the public. As Hilary Mantel noted in her 2018 Reith Lectures, "Why would an executioner wear a mask? Everybody knew who he was".

While this task can be occasional in nature, it can be carried out in the line of more general duty by an officer of the court, the police, prison staff, or even the military. A special case is the tradition of the Roman fustuarium, continued in forms of running the gauntlet, where the culprit receives their punishment from the hands of the comrades gravely harmed by their crime, e.g. for failing in vital sentinel duty or stealing from a ship's limited food supply.

Many executioners were professional specialists who traveled a circuit or region performing their duty, because executions were rarely very numerous. Within this region, a resident executioner would also administer non-lethal physical punishments, or apply torture. In medieval Europe, to the end of the early modern period, executioners were often knackers, since pay from the rare executions was not enough to live off.

In medieval Europe executioners also taxed lepers and prostitutes, and controlled gaming houses. They were also in charge of the latrines and cesspools, and disposing of animal carcasses.

The term is extended to administrators of severe physical punishment that is not prescribed to kill, but which may result in death.

Executions in France (using the guillotine since the French Revolution) persisted until 1977, and the French Republic had an official executioner; the last one, Marcel Chevalier, served until the formal abolition of capital punishment in 1981.

In society
In Western Europe and its colonies, executioners were often shunned by their neighbours, with their work as knackers also disreputable. In Alexandre Dumas' The Three Musketeers and in the film La veuve de Saint-Pierre (The Widow of Saint-Peter), minor character executioners are ostracized by the villagers.

The profession of executioner sometimes ran through a family, especially in France, where the Sanson family provided six executioners between 1688 and 1847 and the Deibler dynasty provided five between 1879 and its 1981 abolition. The latter's members included Louis Deibler, his son Anatole, Anatole's nephew Jules-Henri Desfourneaux, his other nephew André Obrecht, and André's nephew Marcel Chevalier.

In Britain, the most notable dynasty was the Pierrepoints, who provided three executioners between 1902 and 1956 – Henry, his brother Thomas, and Henry's son Albert. Unlike in France and many other European countries, far from being shunned, British executioners such as William Marwood, James Berry, Albert Pierrepoint, and Harry Allen were widely known and respected by the public.

In Japan, executioners have been held in contempt as part of the burakumin class (today executions in Japan are not carried out by professional executioners, but by prison guards). In Memories of Silk and Straw, by Junichi Saga, one of the families surveyed in the Japanese village of Tsuchiura is that of an executioner family ("The Last Executioner", p. 54). This family does suffer social isolation, even though the family is somewhat well-off financially.

In the Ottoman Empire, the role of executioners was given to the Ottoman gardeners, bodyguards who guarded the sultan's palace. Members of the gardeners conducted executions of anyone whom the sultan wanted executed, but the most senior officials who were sentenced to death were dealt with by the head of the gardeners (bostancıbaşı) in person. Bostancibaşi would give the person sentenced to death a cup of sherbet, and if the sherbet was white, they would avoid death, but if it was red, they would be executed on the spot by janissaries. Grand viziers could avoid execution by racing the bostancibaşi. If they reached the Fish Market Gate (on the southern side of the palace complex) from the Central Gate of the palace complex before the bostancibaşi, they would be banished instead of being executed. If they were slower than the bostancibaşi, they would be executed and their body would be thrown into the sea. This custom lasted until the nineteenth century. The last recorded person to participate in a race with the bostancibaşi was grand vizier Hacı Salih Pasha who, in November 1822, outran the bostancibaşi and saved his life. He was so widely esteemed for winning the race that he got appointed governor general of the Damascus province. Executioners had their own graveyards, with uncarved and unpolished simple rough stones used as gravestones. The biggest of these graveyards is part of the Eyüp Cemetery in Istanbul.

The town of Roscommon has the distinction of having had Ireland's most notorious hangwoman, Lady Betty, who was given the post in exchange for her life being spared when the hangman due to execute her death sentence took ill on the day that she and 25 others were due to be hanged. Lady Betty offered to carry out the task in exchange for her death sentence being commuted to a life sentence, and she acted as the county's hangwoman from then on. An unidentified woman hanged two men for murder on 13 November 1782 at Kilmainham, near Dublin. The men were also quartered. The sheriff received abuse for making a hangman of a woman.

title: Executioner