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Unknown Pleasures

Unknown Pleasures is the debut studio album by the English post-punk band Joy Division, released on 15 June 1979, by Factory Records. The album was recorded and mixed over three successive weekends at Stockport's Strawberry Studios in April 1979, with producer Martin Hannett contributing a number of unconventional recording techniques to the group's sound. The cover artwork was designed by artist Peter Saville, using a data plot of signals from a radio pulsar. It is the only Joy Division album released during lead singer Ian Curtis's lifetime.

Factory Records did not release any singles from Unknown Pleasures, and the album did not chart despite the relative success of the group's follow-up single, "Transmission". It has since received sustained critical acclaim as an influential post-punk album, and has been named as one of the best albums of all time by publications such as NME, AllMusic, Select, Rolling Stone, and Spin.

Background
Joy Division formed in Salford in 1976 during the first wave of punk rock. Bernard Sumner and Peter Hook had separately attended a Sex Pistols show at the Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall on 4 June 1976 and both embraced that band's simplicity, speed and aggression. Forming a band with their friend Terry Mason on drums, Sumner on guitar and Hook on bass, they advertised for a singer. Ian Curtis, whom Sumner and Hook already knew, applied and, without having to audition, was taken on. After a number of changes of drummer, Stephen Morris joined the band—at that time called Warsaw—in August 1977. To avoid confusion with the London punk band Warsaw Pakt, they renamed themselves Joy Division in late 1977.

After signing a recording contract with RCA Records in early 1978, Joy Division recorded some demos; however, they were unhappy with the way their music was mixed and asked to be released from their contract. The band's first release was the self-produced extended play (EP), An Ideal for Living, which was released in June 1978. They made their television debut on Tony Wilson's local news show Granada Reports in September 1978. According to Hook, the band received a £70,000 offer from Genetic Records in London. However, the band's manager, Rob Gretton, approached Wilson about releasing an album on his Factory Records label. Wilson explained that Gretton had calculated that given Factory's 50/50 split of profits, the band could make as much money with the indie label as it could by signing to a major. Wilson added that one of Gretton's main reasons for approaching Factory was so "he wouldn't have to get on a train to London every week and 'talk to nuggets'. No one could use the word 'cockney' with as much contempt as Rob". Gretton estimated that the album would cost £8,000 to produce; however, Wilson said in 2006 that the up-front cost ended at £18,000.

Recording
Unknown Pleasures was recorded at Strawberry Studios in Stockport over three weekends between 1 and 17 April 1979, with Martin Hannett producing. Hannett, who believed that punk rock was sonically conservative because of its refusal to use studio technology to create sonic space, used a number of unusual production techniques and sound effects on the album, including several AMS 15-80s digital delays, the Marshall Time Modulator, tape echo and bounce, as well as the sound of a bottle smashing, someone eating crisps, backwards guitar and the sound of the Strawberry Studios lift with a Leslie speaker "whirring inside". He also used the sound of a basement toilet. Hannett recorded Curtis's vocals for "Insight" down a telephone line so he could achieve the "requisite distance". Hannett later said, "[Joy Division] were a gift to a producer, because they didn't have a clue. They didn't argue". Referring to the recording sessions, Hook remembered, "Sumner started using a kit-built Powertran Transcendent 2000 synthesiser, most notably on 'I Remember Nothing', where it vied with the sound of Rob Gretton smashing bottles with Steve and his Walther replica pistol." During the recording, Morris invested in a syndrum because he thought he saw one on the cover of Can's 1971 album Tago Mago.

AllMusic wrote that Hannett's production on Unknown Pleasures was "as much a hallmark as the music itself," describing it as "emphasizing space in the most revelatory way since the dawn of dub." Describing Hannett's production techniques, Hook said, "[He] didn't think straight, he thought sideways. He confused you and made you do something you didn't expect." Hook went on to say, "Derek Bramwood of Strawberry Studios said that you can take a group that have got on brilliantly for 20 years, put them in a studio with Martin and within five minutes, they'll be trying to slash each other's throats." However, Hook went on to say that Hannett was only as good as the material he had to work with, "We gave him great songs, and like a top chef, he added some salt and pepper and some herbs and served up the dish. But he needed our ingredients." The band members' opinions differed on the "spacious, atmospheric sound" of the album, which did not reflect their more aggressive live sound. Sumner said, "The music was loud and heavy, and we felt that Martin had toned it down, especially with the guitars. The production inflicted this dark, doomy mood over the album: we'd drawn this picture in black and white, and Martin had coloured it in for us. We resented it ..." Hook said, "I couldn't hide my disappointment then, it sounded like Pink Floyd."

Morris disagreed, saying, "I was happy with Unknown Pleasures. My theory on things at the time was that the two things—listening to a record and going to a gig—were quite different. You don't want to hear a record when you go to a gig: you want something with a bit of energy." Curtis was also happy with the production of the album and was impressed with Hannett's work. Hook conceded in 2006, "It definitely didn't turn out sounding the way I wanted it ... But now I can see that Martin did a good job on it ... There's no two ways about it, Martin Hannett created the Joy Division sound." Hook also noted that he was able to hear Curtis's lyrics and Sumner's guitar parts for the first time on the record, because during gigs the band played too loudly.

Artwork and packaging
Peter Saville, who had previously designed posters for Manchester's Factory club in 1978, designed the cover of the album. Sumner or Morris, depending on the account, chose the image used on the cover, which is based on an image of radio waves from pulsar CP 1919, from The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Astronomy. Saville reversed the image from black-on-white to white-on-black, against the band's stated preference for the original. "I was afraid it might look a little cheap. I was convinced that it was just sexier in black" since it represented a signal from space. He printed it on textured card for the original version of the album.

It is not a Fourier analysis as sometimes stated, but rather an image of the intensity of successive radio pulses, as stated in the Cambridge Encyclopaedia. In simple terms, the image is a ridgeline plot of the radio emissions given out by a pulsar, a "rotating neutron star". Originally named CP 1919, the pulsar was discovered in November 1967 by student Jocelyn Bell Burnell and her supervisor Antony Hewish at Cambridge University. As the star turns, it emits electromagnetic radiation in a beam like a lighthouse, which can be picked up by radio telescopes. Each line on the image is an individual pulse. They are not exactly the same each time as the long distance the beam travels introduces interference.

The image was originally created by radio astronomer Harold Craft at the Arecibo Observatory for his 1970 doctoral dissertation as a way to visualize smaller pulses within larger ones, which might help explain what had been causing the pulses. He was unaware for years that the image was associated with the album cover until a friend told him; afterwards he bought a copy because he felt he should have one as the creator of the image.

Susie Goldring, reviewing the album for BBC Online said, "The duochrome Peter Saville cover of this first Joy Division album speaks volumes. Its white on black lines reflect a pulse of power, a surge of bass, and raw angst. If the cover doesn't draw you in, the music will."

Iconic status
The cover image became strongly associated with the band's fans at goth gatherings later in the 1980s, after Joy Division's surviving members had become New Order. In the 21st century, it started to become an iconic image outside Joy Division fandom. Raf Simons collaborated with Saville on a 2003 clothing line that used the plot; three years later Supreme followed suit. The cover of Vince Staples' 2015 album Summertime '06 is based on the Unknown Pleasures image.

In 2012 the Disney corporation used the cover image for a t-shirt with Mickey Mouse, which was taken as a joke but not meant as one. Saville explains the image's adaptability as a result of it being "cool, in all of the meanings, from cool to cold".

Inner sleeve
The inner sleeve features a black-and-white photograph of a door with a hand near the handle. It was some years later before Saville discovered that the photograph was Hand Through a Doorway, a well-known picture by Ralph Gibson.

Release
Unknown Pleasures was initially printed in a run of 10,000 copies, with 5,000 copies being sold within the first two weeks of release, and a further 10,000 copies being sold over the following six months. Initially, sales of Unknown Pleasures were slow until the release of the non-album single, "Transmission", and unsold copies occupied the Factory Records office in the flat of label co-founder Alan Erasmus.

Following the release of "Transmission", Unknown Pleasures sold out of its initial pressing, with this prompting further pressings. Unknown Pleasures created approximately £50,000 in profit, to be shared between Factory Records and the band; however, Tony Wilson spent most of these profits on Factory projects. By the conclusion of a critically acclaimed promotional tour supporting Buzzcocks in November 1979, Unknown Pleasures had neared 15,000 copies sold.

Unknown Pleasures failed to chart on the UK Albums Chart. However, following Curtis's suicide in May 1980 and the release of their second album, Closer, in July, it was reissued and reached No. 71 at the end of that August. It fared better on the UK Indie Chart, placing at No. 2 on the first chart to be published in January 1980 and going on to top the chart following its reissue, spending 136 weeks on the chart in total. The 40th-anniversary reissue of the album charted at number 5 in the UK Albums Chart when it was released in 2019, making Unknown Pleasures Joy Division's highest-charting album.

In 2007, remastered versions of both Unknown Pleasures and the posthumous studio album Closer—plus the 1981 compilation album Still—were re-released, with the remastered version of Unknown Pleasures including a bonus disc of a live recording of the band playing at The Factory in Manchester on 13 July 1979. The album was also re-released on 180-gram vinyl with the original track listing in 2007, with this version also being available in a limited edition box set with Closer and Still. The album was reissued again on limited edition 180g ruby red coloured vinyl with an alternative white sleeve, released on 7 May 2019, to coincide with the album's 40th anniversary.

Initial response
Melody Maker called Unknown Pleasures an "opaque manifesto" and musically described it as "Gary Glitter meets the Velvet Underground". Reviewer Jon Savage declared "[leaving] the twentieth century is difficult; most people prefer to go back and nostalgise, Oh boy. Joy Division at least set a course in the present with contrails for the future—perhaps you can't ask for much more. Indeed, Unknown Pleasures may very well be one of the best, white, English, debut LPs of the year." Max Bell of NME qualified the record as "extraordinary," writing that "without trying to baffle or overreach itself, this outfit step into a labyrinth that is rarely explored with any smidgeon of real conviction." He compared it favourably to the work of Strange Days-era Doors and "German experimentalists" such as Can and Neu!. In Rolling Stone, music journalist Mikal Gilmore described the album as having "a doleful, deep-toned sound that often suggested an elaborate version of the Velvet Underground or an orderly Public Image Ltd." By August of that year the album's stature as a favourite of critics for the year was established. Robert Palmer placed the album at fourth place in his best of 1980 list for The New York Times, proclaiming the album as an "exceptional debut" and that the album "remains the group's masterpiece" and that it was "some of the most driven, desperate rock-and-roll ever recorded."

Other writers were less enthusiastic. Red Starr, writing for Smash Hits, gave the album a generally positive review, describing it as a "bleak nightmare soundtrack". Starr described the lyrics as "mysterious" and "doomy" which were "amidst intense music of urgent guitar, eerie effects and driving rhythms". However, Starr tempered his review by saying not to "expect too much" as the album was "still pretty raw". Writing about Factory for Melody Maker in September 1979, Mary Harron was less impressed: "I found at least half of [Unknown Pleasures] to be turgid and monotonous, and the vocals heavy and melodramatic—Jim Morrison without flair." She went on to say the lyrics and the atmosphere of the album "seemed to hearken back to the late Sixties" and the songs were "a series of disconnected images".

Legacy
Retrospective critical writing on the album has been virtually unanimous in its praise. In 1994, Jon Savage described the music as "a definitive Northern Gothic statement: guilt-ridden, romantic, claustrophobic". Analysing Curtis's work, music journalist Richard Cook remarked in 1983: "sex has disappeared from these unknown pleasures; it is an aftermath of passion where everything's (perhaps) lost". Stuart Maconie of Select deemed Unknown Pleasures "music without a past or a future but with the muscularity of all great rock" and "one of the greatest first albums ever."

Ned Raggett, reviewing the album for AllMusic, described Unknown Pleasures as "All visceral, all emotional, all theatrical, all perfect—one of the best albums ever." Robert Christgau said that it was Curtis's "passionate gravity that makes the clumsy, disquieting music so convincing". Colin Larkin called the music "distinctive and disturbing" in his Encyclopedia of Popular Music (2011), while highlighting "She's Lost Control", where Curtis was "at his most manically arresting". In relation to the remastered re-released album in 2007, the British music magazine NME described the album as "simply one of the best records ever made, and is still powerful enough to floor you 28 years on".

In 2000 it was voted number 249 in Colin Larkin's All Time Top 1000 Albums. The album was also included in the book 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die.

Peter Hook and The Light have played the Unknown Pleasures album in its entirety on several of their concert tours, and have recorded and released live albums of some of their gigs. Hook also named one of his books Unknown Pleasures: Inside Joy Division in 2012.

Accolades
(*) designates unordered lists.

Personnel
Credits adapted from AllMusic:

Joy Division
 * Ian Curtis – vocals
 * Bernard Sumner – guitar, keyboards
 * Peter Hook – bass guitar
 * Stephen Morris – drums, percussion

Production
 * Martin Hannett – producer
 * Chris Nagle – engineer
 * Peter Saville – design
 * Chris Mathan – design

title: Unknown Pleasures


text:
Reed–Sternberg cell

Reed–Sternberg cells (also known as lacunar histiocytes for certain types) are distinctive, giant cells found with light microscopy in biopsies from individuals with Hodgkin lymphoma. They are usually derived from B lymphocytes, classically considered crippled germinal center B cells. In the vast majority of cases, the immunoglobulin genes of Reed–Sternberg cells have undergone both V(D)J recombination and somatic hypermutation, establishing an origin from a germinal center or postgerminal center B cell. Despite having the genetic signature of a B cell, the Reed–Sternberg cells of classical Hodgkin lymphoma fail to express most B-cell–specific genes, including the immunoglobulin genes. The cause of this wholesale reprogramming of gene expression has yet to be fully explained. It presumably is the result of widespread epigenetic changes of uncertain etiology, but is partly a consequence of so-called "crippling" mutations acquired during somatic hypermutation. Seen against a sea of B cells, they give the tissue a moth-eaten appearance.

Reed–Sternberg cells are large (30–50 microns) and are either multinucleated or have a bilobed nucleus with prominent eosinophilic inclusion-like nucleoli (thus resembling an "owl's eye" appearance). Reed–Sternberg cells are CD30 and CD15 positive except in the lymphocyte predominance type where they are negative, but are usually positive for CD20 and CD45. The presence of these cells is necessary in the diagnosis of Hodgkin lymphoma – the absence of Reed–Sternberg cells has very high negative predictive value. The presence of these cells is confirmed mainly by use of biomarkers in immunohistochemistry. They can also be found in reactive lymphadenopathy (such as infectious mononucleosis immunoblasts which are RS like in appearance, carbamazepine associated lymphadenopathy) and very rarely in other types of non-Hodgkin lymphomas. Anaplastic large cell lymphoma may show RS-like cells as well.

History
They are named after Dorothy Reed Mendenhall and Carl Sternberg, who provided the first definitive microscopic descriptions of Hodgkin's disease.

Hodgkin lymphoma
A special type of Reed–Sternberg cell (RSC) is the lacunar histiocyte, whose cytoplasm retracts when fixed in formalin, so the nuclei give the appearance of cells that lie with empty spaces (called lacunae) between them. These are characteristic of the nodular sclerosis subtype of Hodgkin lymphoma.

Mummified RSCs (compact nucleus, basophilic cytoplasm, no nucleolus) are also associated with classical Hodgkin's lymphoma while popcorn cells (small cell with hyper-lobulated nucleus and small nucleoli) are lymphohistiocytic (L-H) variant of Reed–Sternberg cells and are associated with nodular lymphocyte predominant Hodgkin lymphoma (NLPHL).

RSCs and one RSC cell line (L1236 cells) but not other RSC cell lines express very high levels of ALOX15 (i.e., 15-lipoxygenase-1) or possibly ALOX15B (i.e. 15-lipoxygenase-2), enzymes that metabolize arachidonic acid and various other polyunsaturated fatty acids to a wide array of bioactive products including in particular those of the 15-Hydroperoxyeicosatetraenoic acid family of arachidonic acid metabolites. This is unusual in that lymphocytes typically express little or no ALOX15. It is suggested that ALOX15 and/or ALOX15B, perhaps operating through one of its arachidonic acid-derived products, the eoxins, contributes to the development and/or morphology of Hodgkin lymphoma.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Reed–Sternberg cell


text:
Don Gonyea

Don Gonyea (born 1956) is an American journalist. He is the national political correspondent for National Public Radio's All Things Considered, Morning Edition, Weekend Edition, and Here and Now programs.

Gonyea began working for NPR in 1986, reporting on the automobile industry and labor issues in Detroit.

He was part of the team that in 2000 won the Peabody Award for a series called Lost & Found Sound.

Gonyea is a 1978 graduate of Michigan State University, where he worked for the public television station, WKAR-TV. He was awarded the 2013 WKAR Public Media Master Award by the MSU College of Communication Arts and Sciences.

title: Don Gonyea


text:
User:Papotages~enwiki/Utilisateur

Pap'otage est membre d'une secte "dangereuse" listée dans le Rapport Parlementaire de 1995. A ce titre, il est le mieux placé pour défendre la position de ceux qui luttent pour que l'état ne se mêle plus de religion et ne s'occupe que de ses affaires: gêrer les affaires PUBLIQUES que le peuple lui a confiées sans discrimination aucune et surtout, sans financer des organisations dont la partialité en matière de sectes est plus à déplorer qu'à encourager dans un pays qui se voudrait être celui des Droits de l'Homme et qui a ratifié la Convention Européenne des Droits de l'Homme, art. 18 et 19 ainsi que le principe de la laïcité de l'état.

Tâche difficile s'il en est, vu le caractère très passionnel qui entoure le débat anti-sectes en France en particulier (explosif, surtout du côté des anti-sectes du reste...). Avec opiniâtreté, je m'astreints à présenter des faits significatifs (qui ne peuvent être suspectés de biaisés).

Je déplore les quantités de lignes qui m'ont été refusées sur wikipédia au nom de motifs qui ne sont pas écrits dans les règles de Wikipédia. Je rappelle les règles qui me semblent essentielles à la meilleure tenue de nos échanges:

 * Wikipédia:Règles de savoir-vivre
 * Wikiquette
 * Neutral Point of View
 * Policies and guidelines
 * La neutralité de point de vue
 * Deletion policy

 * Grille d'évaluation d'une intervention sur un article.

 * Neutral Point of View (NPOV)
 * "It's crucial that we work together to make articles unbiased. It's one of the things that makes Wikipedia work so well."

 * Respect des autres et de leur travail. Les participants viennent de différents pays et de différentes cultures, et ont des points de vue très différents. En traitant les autres et leurs avis avec respect, nous pourrons collaborer avec plus d'efficacité dans la construction de l'encyclopédie. c'est-à-dire pas de vandalisme. Il est interdit d'effacer sans raison le contenu de Wikipédia ou d'insérer des images pornographiques.
 * Neutralité du point de vue. La subjectivité et l'expression d'opinions personnelles sont à proscrire, de même que les informations mensongères.
 * What Wikipedia is not
 * Propaganda
 * Neutral point of view
 * "allowing each side to give its "best shot" at the other, but studiously refraining from saying who won the exchange."
 * "But the policy entails that it is our job to speak for the other side, and not just represent our own views. If we don't commit ourselves to doing that, Wikipedia will be much, much weaker for it.  We should all be engaged in explaining each other's points of view  as sympathetically as possible."
 * Lack of neutrality as an excuse to delete
 * The neutrality policy is used sometimes as an excuse to delete texts that are perceived as biased. Isn't this a problem?

 * In many cases, yes. Most of us believe that the mere fact that some text is biased is not enough, by itself, to delete the text outright. If it contains perfectly valid information, the text should simply be edited accordingly, and certainly not deleted.

 * There's sometimes trouble determining whether some claim is true or useful, particularly when there are few people on board who know about the topic. In such a case, it's a good idea to raise objections on a talk page; if one has some reason to believe that the author of the biased material will not be induced to change it, we have sometimes taken to removing the text to the talk page itself (but certainly not deleting it entirely) . But the latter should be done more or less as a last resort, never merely as a way of punishing people who have written something biased.

Longue vie au projet Wikipédia!

Pap'otages

Je démarrais la traduction du terme NPOV il y a presque un an de cela. Suite au premier conflit général avec une hydre. Ne m'imaginant pas la profondeur béante de la non compréhension du terme :-)

C'est vrai que j'ai pas compris en détail tout de suite toutes les finesses des explications sur la NPOV. J'ai été impressionné par la qualité de la démarche en profondeur de la version anglaise. Les français qui savent tout mieux que personne feraient bien d'en prendre de la graine sous peine de se disqualifier ou de n'attirer que des esprits très médiocres quoiqu'instruits et par la même occasion, de s'attirer des histoires vu le peu de respect qu'ils ont pour les autres ("les aliénés"). Et je ne parles évidemment pas pour tous les wikipédiens qui subissent cette dictature, et encore moins pour toi dont j'ai apprécié la capacité d'abstraction et la précision avec laquelle tu trouves les exemples pour illustrer ta pensée. Beaucoup d'estime pour Anthere!!! Si jamais, j'aimerais bien te poser des questions sur la génétique à l'occasion.

papotages 23 aoû 2003 à 10:12 (CEST)

 * il y a ceux qui parlent tout haut, et ceux qui pensent tout bas, ne pas les négliger les seconds :-)
 * Pas de souci sur la génétique. Quelques Reflexions sur la bioethique pensées, que j'ai complètement oublié de compléter ultérieurement :-). Pour l'instant, je me concentre essentiellement sur l'aspect promotion. Objectif : un bon contenu et des cibles potentielles enrichissantes pour Wikipédia. Bon week end.
 * Au cas où, j'ai placé les quelques réflexions sur lesquels ton avis serait apprécié ici. Merci! pap'otages 29 aoû 2003 à 09:52 (CEST)

Aujourd'hui, 2 nov. 2003, je viens d'être censuré dur dur. J'avais publié un article sur la diabolisation qui apparaissait en tête sur google. Cet article avait été censuré. J'ai corrigé. L'article a alors été purement et simplement protégé pour m'interdire de le remettre dans l'état où je l'avais conçu. Et, comme j'en ai eu marre, j'ai décidé de mener la guerre d'édition avec les mêmes armes que les salopards qui m'empêchent de m'exprimer systématiquement et depuis les débuts sur fr.wikipédia. J'ai alors censuré les artiles au hasard sur lesquels Ashar, un intervenant particulièrement autoritaire. J'ai donc été bani bien sûr.

Moi, je défend ces valeurs là:

 * Violation de la liberté religieuse: la France au 6ème rang, la Chine en tête
 * Les ennemis d'Internet

J'ai une page perso sur wikipedia englais en cas de pépin sérieux.

Une «polémique» diabolique s'est donc ouverte sur wikipédia au sujet de Prise de décision, débloquer papotages

Pap'Otages

Je sais que ce pseudo ne t'est plus accessible, mais j'aimerais avoir ton avis sur la présence des deux logos (l'obsolète et l'actuel) du Mouvement Raëlien sur la page du même nom. Ellisllk 5 nov 2003 à 18:41 (CET)

 * Mais c'est parfait. Il n'y a que des faits vrais et ils sont au grand complet. Un rêve de la part de la production d'un ZantiSSectes. Bravo Illisllk! Un modèle du genre. Si tu pouvais garder cette façon de faire pour toutes tes interventions, alors nous serions de grands copains tous les deux. Malheureusement, tu as encore recours compulsif à la censure de tout ce qui te dérange mais qui est vrai et que tu ne peux pas réfuter. C'est très domage... Ca pourrait être si passionant d'intervenir sur wikipédia... Merci d'en tenir compte. pap'otages 8 nov 2003 à 15:00 (CET)
 * Ça serait mieux d'en discuter sur ta page de discussion, et puis tu n'as pas répondu à ma question qui n'était même pas polémique... Ellisllk 8 nov 2003 à 15:05 (CET)

il n'est pas bloqué autant que je puisse dire. ant

-

Bon, mais maintenant, il est bien bloqué. Tous les IP de la planète vont bientôt devoir se plier aux exigeances exhorbitantes de Aoineko pour protéger ses délires... ;-)

Je me marre!!!!

Le géant aux pides d'argiles commencera-t-il à réaliser qu'il n'est pas si fort qu'il le pensait (brutalement parlant j'entends)...

Alors maintenant, je laisse un espace de réflexion aux intervenants de wikipédia. Trève jusqu'à Jeudi.

Jeudi, reprise de contact tout à fait anodine, dans les meilleures dispositions de ma part en tout cas. Et on remplile ça juste pour voir. Et ainsi de suite jusqu'à épuisement de la patience des plus fachos... Radicalisation ou prise de conscience intelligente de leur part. Franchement, je ne me fais pas d'illusion, mais on doit être sûr qu'ils cherchent le M.A.D. (Mutual Auto Destruction).

Et après, on va pouvoir jouer sans limite avec wikipédia. C'est très drôle de se payer la tête d'un dictateur, d'un puissant, d'un type infâme, inique, crétin, qui avait le pouvoir... La bêtise est toujours drôle quand elle est démasquée... Et c'est la panique en attendant. Les chiens vont peut-être commencer à se mordre entre eux... Je l'espère!... hin, hin...

Diabolique le Pap'Otages!... Mais c'est juste pour rire...

C'est ici mon dernier message important

Voilà!

Gros bisous les fachos, les Ziniques, les crétins et les trékons.

title: User:Papotages~enwiki/Utilisateur