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Gray-crowned rosy finch

The gray-crowned rosy finch or gray-crowned rosy-finch (Leucosticte tephrocotis) is a species of passerine bird in the family Fringillidae native to Alaska, western Canada, and the north-western United States. Due to its remote and rocky alpine habitat it is rarely seen. There are currently six recognized subspecies. It is one of four species of rosy finches.

Taxonomy
The gray-crowned rosy finch was first classified by English ornithologist William John Swainson in 1832. This bird has been thought to form a superspecies with three other rosy finches (also known as mountain finch): black rosy finch (L. atrata) and the brown-capped rosy finch (L. australis), all of which were classified as the same species as the Asian rosy finch (L. arctoa) from 1983 to 1993. Recent mitochondrial DNA evidence shows the rosy finches are all indeed very closely related and can be easily confused with one another. Along with one Asian rosy finch and two Asian mountain finches, the three North American rosy finches form the mountain finch genus Leucosticte. Alternative common names include: Roselin à tête grise (in French), Schwarzstirn-Schneegimpel (in German), and Pinzón Montano Nuquigrís (in Spanish).

Subspecies
Six subspecies of the gray-crowned rosy finch are now recognized, though proposals for additional subspecies have been recognized.

 * L. t. griseonucha (J. F. Brandt, 1842) Commander Island, and Aleutian Islands (including Shumagin Island and Semidi Island) east to Alaskan Peninsula; non-breeding south to Kodiak Island.
 * L. t. umbrina (O. Murie, 1944) Hall Island, St. Matthew Island and Pribilof Islands, in Bering Sea.
 * L. t. littoralis (S. F. Baird, 1869) also known as "Hepburn’s rosy-finch", "gray-headed rosy-finch", "gray-cheeked rosy-finch", breeds in south-central Alaska east to western Canada (SW Yukon, NW British Columbia) and western United States from Washington and Oregon (along Cascade Mountains) to northern California (Mt Shasta); winters in southern section of breeding range East to central Montana, western Nevada, northern Utah and central New Mexico.
 * L. t. tephrocotis (Swainson, 1832) also known as "brown-cheeked rosy-finch", breeds northern & central Alaska east to northwest Canada (central Yukon, British Columbia, western Alberta) and northwest United States (northwest Montana); winters from southern British Columbia east to southwest Saskatchewan and South Dakota, south to northeast California, Nevada, Utah, western Colorado and northern New Mexico.
 * L. t. wallowa (A. H. Miller, 1939) breeds northeast Oregon (Wallowa Mts); winters South to west-central Nevada and central-east California.
 * L. t. dawsoni (J. Grinnell, 1913) eastern California (Sierra Nevada and White Mts).

Description
Within the finch family, the gray-crowned rosy finch is medium-large with a comparatively long notched tail and wing. Adults are brown on the back and breast and mainly pink on the rest of the underparts and the wings. The forehead and throat are black; the back of the head is grey. They have short black legs and a long forked tail. There is some variability in the amount of grey on the head. Adult females and juveniles are similar. Overall length is 140 to(-), wingspan 33 cm, and weight 22 to(-). L. t. wallowa has an almost entirely gray head. The Pribilof and Aleutian subspecies have a length of 170 to(-) and weight of 42 to(-), about twice the size of the other subspecies. The black rosy finch has a black instead of brown body and the brown-capped rosy finch is a lighter brown and lacks the gray face patch.

Distribution and habitat
The ancestor of the three species of North American rosy finches migrated from Asia. All rosy finches live in an alpine or tundra environment. The gray-crowned rosy finch has a wide range and large numbers throughout Alaska, and western Canada and the United States. L. t. griseonucha permanently resides in the Aleutian Islands and umbrina on the Pribilof Islands. A small number of gray-crowned rosy finches winters on the mainland in South-Central Alaska and visits feeders there. The other taxa: littoralis, tephrocotis, wallowa, and dawsoni are found from the Canadian and American Rockies and migrate south to the western United States. L. t. tephrocotis summers from Montana to the Yukon, while littoralis breeds closer to the coast, from northern California to west-central Alaska. Due to its remote habitat, few of its nests have been found, it is rarely spotted, and the population is stable. They are invariably found amongst rocks. The areas the subspecies breed in rarely overlap during breeding season. Males typically outnumber females throughout the year. An individual was seen north of Boonville, in Lewis County, NY beginning on Sunday, March 4 through at least Thursday, March 8. This is only the second confirmed report for New York State.

Behavior
Rosy finches are very environment-specific. In the summer their breeding habitat is rocky islands and barren areas on mountains from Alaska to the northwestern United States. These mountain breeding areas tend to be snowfields and rocky scree. When not breeding they form large flocks of over 1000 individuals which are sometimes known to include snow buntings (P. nivalis), Lapland longspurs (C. lapponicus), and horned larks (E. alpestris), as well as other rosy-finch species. They descend in flocks as far as the fringes of the western plains beginning in autumn when the snows get deep. They return to alpine regions when snow is still deep in early spring. They may breed at a higher altitude than any other breeding bird in North America. Due to these extreme breeding altitudes, they are very difficult to observe during breeding times. They build a cup nest in mid-June at a sheltered, hidden location on the ground or on a cliff and are monogamous. They are known to use protected areas such as mine shafts and abandoned buildings for nesting. Both sexes collect the nesting material of grass, roots, lichen, moss, and sedge, but only the female builds the nest. Lining material consists of fine grass, hair, and feathers. The female lays 3–5 eggs which she incubates for approximately two weeks. Both sexes feed the chicks, which leave the nest after 2–3 weeks. Chicks continue to be fed by their parents for about two weeks after leaving the nest in late July or early August. A male will defend its female's territory during breeding season, not just the nest but wherever she goes. This behavior is common with the rosy finches.

These birds forage on the ground; many fly to catch insects in flight. During the summer they mainly eat insects, such as cutworms, that were caught in updrafts and frozen in snowfields. They also feed in the meadows near snowfields. In the winter they eat seeds from weeds and grasses such as Russian thistle (E. exaltatus), mustard, and sunflower (H. annuus). When breeding, both males and females develop throat pouches, known as gular pouches or gular skin, to carry food to their chicks, a trait seen in only one other North American genus, Pinicola. The three subspecies that live in mountain interiors have brown cheeks instead of gray cheeks. They show little fear of humans. They often feed in small flocks. Their call is a buzz-sounding "chew". They can be approached to within 1 to(-).

Book
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 * MacDougall-Shackleton, S. A., R. E. Johnson, and T. P. Hahn. 2000. Gray-crowned Rosy-Finch (Leucosticte tephrocotis). In The Birds of North America, No. 559 (A. Poole and F. Gill, eds.). The Birds of North America, Inc., Philadelphia, PA.

Thesis

 * Hartzell PL. Ph.D. (2005). Pacific Northwest glacial ecosystems. Clark University, United States, Massachusetts.
 * Richardson MI. Ph.D. (2003). Ecology, behavior and endocrinology of an alpine breeding bird, the grey-crowned rosy finch (Leucosticte tephrocotis). University of Washington, United States, Washington.

Articles
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 * Airola DA. (1981). Recent Colonization of Lassen Peak California USA by the Gray-Crowned Rosy Finch Leucosticte-Tephrocotis. Western Birds. vol 12, no 3. pp. 117–124.
 * Arbogast MR. (1974). Gray-Crowned Rosy Finch Hepburns Form at Aberdeen. South Dakota Bird Notes. vol 26, no 1.
 * Behle WH. (1973). Further Notes on Rosy Finches Wintering in Utah. Wilson Bulletin. vol 85, no 3. pp. 344–346.
 * Helmin GA & Helmin GE. (1973). 4th Minnesota Observation in 80 Years. Loon. vol 45, no 1.
 * Hukkanen RR, Richardson M, Wingfield JC, Treuting P & Brabb T. (2003). Avipox sp. in a colony of gray-crowned rosy finches (Leucosticte tephrocotis). Comparative Medicine. vol 53, no 5. pp. 548–552.
 * Johnson RE. (1975). New Breeding Localities for Leucosticte in the Contiguous Western USA. Auk. vol 92, no 3. pp. 586–589.
 * Johnson RE. (1977). Seasonal Variation in the Genus Leucosticte in North America. Condor. vol 79, no 1. pp. 76–86.
 * Ludwig F. (1974). Minnesotas 3rd Gray-Crowned Rosy Finch. Loon. vol 46, no 2.
 * MacDougall-Shackleton SA & Hahn TP. (1999). Photorefractoriness and the evolution of reproductive flexibility in cardueline finches. American Zoologist. vol 39, no 5.
 * MacDougall-Shackleton SA, Katti M & Hahn TP. (2006). Tests of absolute photorefractoriness in four species of cardueline finch that differ in reproductive schedule. Journal of Experimental Biology. vol 209, no 19. pp. 3786–3794.
 * Mundinger PC. (1979). Call Learning in the Carduelinae Ethological and Systematic Considerations. Systematic Zoology. vol 28, no 3. pp. 270–283.
 * Murphy ME & King JR. (1982). Semi Synthetic Diets as a Tool for Nutritional Ecology. Auk. vol 99, no 1. pp. 165–167.
 * Pereyra ME, MacDougall-Shackleton SA, Sharbaugh SM, Morton ML, Katti M & Hahn TP. (2001). Relationships between photorefrac-toriness and reproductive flexibility in cardueline finches. American Zoologist. vol 41, no 6.
 * Rising JD. (2001). Geographic variation in size and shape of Savannah Sparrows (Passerculus sandwichensis). Studies in Avian Biology. vol 23, pp. 1–65.
 * Shreeve DF. (1980). Behavior of the Aleutian Gray-Crowned Rosy Finches Leucosticte-Tephrocotis-Griseonucha and Brown-Capped Rosy Finches Leucosticte-Tephrocotis-Australis. Ibis. vol 122, no 2. pp. 145–165.
 * Shreeve DF. (1980). Differential Mortality in the Sexes of the Aleutian Alaska USA Gray-Crowned Rosy Finch Leucosticte-Tephrocotis-Griseonucha. American Midland Naturalist. vol 104, no 1. pp. 193–197.
 * Spicer GS. (1978). A New Species and Several New Host Records of Avian Nasal Mites Acarina Rhinonyssinae Turbinoptinae. Journal of Parasitology. vol 64, no 5. pp. 891–894.
 * Yang S-J, Lei F-M & Yin Z-H. (2006). Molecular phylogeny of rosefinches and rose bunting (Passeriformes, Fringillidae, Urocynchramidae). Acta Zootaxonomica Sinica. vol 31, no 3. pp. 453–458.
 * Yarbrough CG. (1970). The Development of Endothermy in Nestling Gray-Crowned Rosy Finches Leucosticte-Tephrocotis-Griseonucha. Comparative Biochemistry & Physiology. vol 34, no 4. pp. 917–925.

title: Gray-crowned rosy finch


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Memory coherence

Memory coherence is an issue that affects the design of computer systems in which two or more processors or cores share a common area of memory.

In a uniprocessor system (where there exists only one core), there is only one processing element doing all the work and therefore only one processing element that can read or write from/to a given memory location. As a result, when a value is changed, all subsequent read operations of the corresponding memory location will see the updated value, even if it is cached.

Conversely, in multiprocessor (or multicore) systems, there are two or more processing elements working at the same time, and so it is possible that they simultaneously access the same memory location. Provided none of them changes the data in this location, they can share it indefinitely and cache it as they please. But as soon as one updates the location, the others might work on an out-of-date copy that, e.g., resides in their local cache. Consequently, some scheme is required to notify all the processing elements of changes to shared values; such a scheme is known as a memory coherence protocol, and if such a protocol is employed the system is said to have a coherent memory.

The exact nature and meaning of the memory coherency is determined by the consistency model that the coherence protocol implements. In order to write correct concurrent programs, programmers must be aware of the exact consistency model that is employed by their systems.

When implemented in hardware, the coherency protocol can, for example, be directory-based or snooping-based (also called sniffing). Specific protocols include the MSI protocol and its derivatives MESI, MOSI and MOESI.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Memory coherence


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Michael Shaara

Michael Shaara (June 23, 1928 – May 5, 1988) was an American author of science fiction, sports fiction, and historical fiction. He was born to an Italian immigrant father (the family name was originally spelled Sciarra, which in Italian is pronounced in a similar way) in Jersey City, New Jersey, graduated in 1951 from Rutgers University, where he joined Theta Chi, and served as a sergeant in the 82nd Airborne Division prior to the Korean War.

Before Shaara began selling science fiction stories to fiction magazines during the 1950s, he was an amateur boxer and police officer. The stress combined with cigarette smoking led to a heart attack  at the early age of 36. He managed to recover completely and later taught literature at Florida State University while continuing to write fiction. His novel about the Battle of Gettysburg, The Killer Angels, won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1975. Shaara died of a heart attack in 1988 at the age of 59.

Shaara's children, Jeffrey and Lila, are also novelists. In 1997, Jeffrey Shaara established the annual Michael Shaara Award for Excellence in Civil War Fiction, awarded at Gettysburg College.

Novels

 * The Broken Place (1968)
 * The Killer Angels (1974), Winner of the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1975. Later, used as the basis for the film Gettysburg in 1993.
 * The Noah Conspiracy (1981), also known as The Herald.
 * For Love of the Game (1991), made into a film in 1999.

Short story collections

 * Soldier Boy (1982)

Short stories

 * "Orphans of the Void" (1952)
 * "All the Way Back" (1952)
 * "Grenville's Planet" (1952)
 * "Be Fruitful and Multiply" (1952)
 * "Soldier Boy" (1953)
 * "The Book" (1953)
 * "The Sling and the Stone" (1954)
 * "Wainer" (1954)
 * "The Holes" (1954)
 * "Time Payment" (1954)
 * "Beast in the House" (1954)
 * "The Vanisher" (1954)
 * "Come to My Party" (1956)
 * "Man of Distinction" (1956)
 * "Conquest Over Time" (1956)
 * "2066: Election Day" (1956)
 * "Four-Billion Dollar Door" (1956)
 * "Death of a Hunter" (1957)
 * "The Peeping Tom Patrol" (1958)
 * "The Lovely House" (1958)
 * "Citizen Jell" (1959)
 * "Opening Up Slowly" (1973)
 * "Border Incident" (1976)
 * "Starface" (1982)
 * "The Dark Angel" (1982)

title: Michael Shaara


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Lake Lucerne (disambiguation)

Lake Lucerne (Vierwaldstättersee) is a lake in Switzerland.

Lake Lucerne or Lake Luzerne may also refer to:

Lakes

 * Lake Lucerne (California)
 * Lake Lucerne (Polk County, Florida), a small lake north of Winter Haven
 * Lake Luzerne (New York)
 * Lake Lucerne (Wisconsin)
 * Pipe Lake-Lake Lucerne two connected lakes in Washington

Communities

 * Lake Lucerne, Florida, neighborhood in Miami Gardens
 * Lake Luzerne, New York, a town
 * Lake Luzerne (CDP), New York, hamlet within the town

title: Lake Lucerne (disambiguation)


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National Intelligence Service (Greece)

The National Intelligence Service (NIS) (Εθνική Υπηρεσία Πληροφοριών, abbreviated ) is the national intelligence agency of Greece. Originally modeled after the United States Central Intelligence Agency, it was established in 1953 as the Central Intelligence Service (Κεντρικὴ Ὑπηρεσία Πληροφοριῶν, abbrev. ΚΥΠ, KYP), specializing in intelligence gathering, counterintelligence activities and securing sensitive state communications.

As Greece's primary intelligence agency, EYP is responsible for a range of domestic and foreign matters, ranging from criminal activities and civil rights violations, to terrorism and espionage. Although its agents can be armed for their protection, the agency does not have prosecutorial and detention powers. During wartime, it can fulfill the role of military intelligence, alongside the separate Military Intelligence Directorate (ΔΔΣΠ).

Headquartered in Athens, EYP is an autonomous civilian agency that answers directly to the Prime Minister of Greece. The majority of its 1,800 personnel are civil servants, although the agency also employs scientific and technical contractors, officers of each branch of the Hellenic Armed Forces, and members of the Hellenic Police and Hellenic Fire Service.

Mission
EYP's mission is to advance Greece's strategic interests by safeguarding political, financial, and military assets, preventing and countering criminal and military threats and collecting, processing and disseminating information to relevant authorities. This broad mandate grants the organization many responsibilities, including advising policymakers, cooperating with the Military Intelligence Directorate (ΔΔΣΠ) and Hellenic Police's Directorate for Special Violent Crimes (Anti-Terrorist Service), the Directorate for Information Management and Analysis, and the Directorate of State Security (successor to the National Security Service), while coordinating with foreign partners.

Personnel
The incumbent Director of the National Intelligence Service is Themistocles Demiris. The two Deputy Directors are amb. Ioannis Raptakis and LtGen (ret.) Georgios Kellis.

The agency is directly responsible to the Prime Minister of Greece, who can appoint or dismiss the Director and his deputies.

EYP employs the following categories of personnel:
 * Permanent civilian personnel.
 * Scientific civilian personnel, serving on the basis of private contracts of employment.
 * A number of officers on active service in the Armed Forces, the Coast Guard or the Hellenic Police. An unspecified number of national field agents are also employed.

The total number of people working for the agency is unknown and remains classified; the Greek media usually give figures of around 3,000.

From 1996 to 2019, responsibility for the service was delegated to Ministers of Public Order/Citizens Protection or the Interior.

History
The first modern Greek intelligence agency was created in February 1908, with the Information Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs fulfilling the role. It was headed by Panagiotis Danglis, a military officer and member of the Hellenic Macedonian Committee one of the secret organizations taking part in the Macedonian Struggle. The Information Department's goal was the promotion of Greek propaganda as well as the collection of economic and military intelligence, through a network of Greek consulates in Ottoman-controlled Macedonia. The Department did not absorb or even collaborate with private Greek secret organizations that continued to act independently. Events such as the Goudi coup and the Young Turk Revolution, prompted a sharp reduction of Greek activity in Macedonia and the eventual dissolution of the agency in November 1909. At the outbreak of World War I Greece remained neutral. The National Schism divided the country into Royalists and Venizelists. Individual members of the military and the diplomatic corps focused their attention on collecting information on their political enemies. In June 1917, King Constantine I of Greece was deposed and the country entered the war on the side of the Entente. Greek officers gained valuable experience on aerial reconnaissance and interrogation techniques from their French and British allies during their tenure on the Macedonian front.

In 1923, Italy occupied the Greek island of Corfu after accusing the latter of assassinating the Italian general Enrico Tellini. The Corfu incident prompted Greece to create the Corfu Information Center under Georgios Fessopoulos. The center was tasked with countering Italian propaganda, disrupting trade with Italy, limiting Catholic proselytism and the use of the Italian language. Apart from that the center also monitored the activities of Armenian refugees and pacifists residing on the island, for fear that they might be communist agents. On 25 September 1925, Theodoros Pangalos founded the National Special Security Service (YAK) under the auspices of the Hellenic Gendarmerie. Tasked with combating the seditious Communist Party of Greece, the organization was paralyzed by an internal power struggle. On 27 December, Fessopulos took over the YAK on 29 January 1926, YAK was renamed into the National General Security Service (YGAK), which now fell under the command of the Ministry of the Interior. The YGAK continued to gather intelligence on communists and illegal aliens. In August 1926, Pangalos was overthrown in a countercoup by Georgios Kondylis. Kondylis dissolved YGAK due to its close affiliation with Pangalos, leaving Greece without an intelligence agency for the next ten years.

In January 1936, the State Defense Service (Υπηρεσίας Αμύνης του Κράτους) was established under the Ministry for Military Affairs. Its responsibilities included "monitoring of foreign propaganda carried out against the State, the movement and dwelling of foreign nationals in the country, the collection of intelligence relating to the security of the State and the introduction of counter-measures." On 5 November of that year, the service was dissolved by the Metaxas Regime & was replaced by the Deputy Ministry for Public Security (Υφυπουργείο Δημόσιας Ασφάλειας).

After World War 2
The agency, in its current form, was founded on 7 May 1953 (Law 2421/1953) under the name Central Intelligence Service (Κεντρικὴ Ὑπηρεσία Πληροφοριῶν, ΚΥΠ). On 27 August 1986, it was renamed and re-established as the National Intelligence Service (Εθνική Υπηρεσία Πληροφοριών, ΕΥΠ) by ministerial decree.

The agency was created by influential Greek American CIA agents, the most famous being Thomas Karamessines, who later rose to become Deputy Director for Plans in the CIA. Its first, most influential and longest-serving Director was Alexandros Natsinas, a Lieutenant General of Artillery and veteran of World War II and the Greek Civil War. He headed the agency from its founding in May 1953 until December 1963.

At the end of World War II, Albania came to be dominated by Enver Hoxha's communist party which owed its ascension to power in part to the British MI6 which actively supported it during the war. The outbreak of the Cold War made Britain reverse its position on Albania initiating the Albanian Subversion operation. Britain sought the assistance of Greece which at the time was hostile towards Albania due to its territorial claims in Northern Epirus and Albania's support for the Democratic Army of Greece. British reliance on the Albanian nationalist Balli Kombëtar militia created reluctance in the Greek intelligence community to collaborate with their erstwhile enemies. Nevertheless, the Manetta Villa in the Athenian suburb of Kifissia was used as a training ground for Albanian anticommunist guerillas. An MI6 communication center was set up in the Bibelli Villa in north east Corfu and an Albanian language propaganda radio station operated from the Alkyonides Islands. The latter came under the control of Central Intelligence Agency in 1950 and continued to function for four more years. KYPE supplied the British with information acquired from the Greek community in Albania as well as political refugees living in Lavrio camp. The Albanian Subversion was ultimately revealed by KGB double agent Kim Philby, the Albanian authorities conducted numerous arrests thus foiling the plot.

Between 1952 and 1961 KYPE and its successor KYP conducted a campaign of cultural propaganda against the Greek communist party (KKE) and the United Democratic Left (EDA). Reports were issued on the Trotskyist Fourth International as well as Titoism, those two currents of communism were to be reinforced in order to spread discord among the country's leftists. On 17 November 1953, KYP proposed conducting tax audits on suspected communist book publishers and cinema owners, censoring Soviet movies and promoting Soviet films of particularly low quality. In 1959, KYP launched exhibitions of Soviet products in Volos, Thessaloniki and Piraeus. The bulk of the products were cheap and defective, purposefully selected to tarnish the Soviet Union's image. In 1961, propaganda brochures such as "The Mishellenic Propaganda of the Slavs and the Macedonian Question" and "KKE and Northern Epirus" were printed and sent out to regional newspapers in the north of the country.

At the very beginning, the agency appointed an anticommunist role, as the country was under the consequences of the civil war and all the countries at the northern borders, were under communist regimes. KYP was controlled by the CIA; in the first eleven years of its history (1953–1964) its agents received their salaries from the Americans, not the Greek state, until Prime Minister Georgios Papandreou, enraged with this level of dependence, stopped this practice. During the Regime of the Colonels (1967–1974), KYP actively continued its anticommunist action.

Between the late 1970s and the 1990s, KYP and EYP monitored the activities of foreign terrorist organizations such as the German Red Army Faction, the Palestinian Abu Nidal Organization, the Japanese Red Army, the Armenian ASALA, and the Turkish, PKK and Dev Sol. The presence of latter two was tolerated by Greece due to its geopolitical conflict with Turkey. Their members received political asylum, mainly settling in the Lavrio refugee camp. Despite PKK's designation as a terrorist organization its members openly raised funds within Greece. Their activities were gradually restricted following the 1999 Greek–Turkish earthquake diplomacy thaw.

After Andreas Papandreou came to power in 1981, he was determined to totally control the state apparatus, including the intelligence services, which historically had been staffed exclusively by people with right-wing political views. The external attention was focused on the relations towards Turkey. He appointed as head of KYP Lieutenant General Georgios Politis, a close friend of retired General, PASOK MP and minister Antonis Drosogiannis; Politis organized a massive purge of right-wing personnel. KYP became a civilian agency, EYP, by Ministerial Decree 1645/86. In recent years, its directors have been diplomats, while traditionally they were military officers.

In late May 1985, KYP agents monitoring the activities of the Soviet embassy in Athens realized that its sports secretary Sergei Bokhan had vanished under mysterious circumstances. KYP suspected Bokhan to be either a KGB or a GRU operative, as was an approximate 40% of the embassy's staff. Valery Goncharouk another suspected GRU agent and embassy worker also unexpectedly returned to Moscow. Unbeknownst to Greece Bokhan had been a MI6 double agent since 1974. On 17 May, Bokhan received an order to urgently return to the USSR in order to confirm a promotion. Fearing that his cover had been blown he escaped to USA with the help of CIA. Bokhan's testimony was passed to KYP, revealing that he and Goncharouk had established a network of collaborators most of whom worked in the high tech sector. Amongst them were Greek navy officers specializing in computer engineering, a Greek contractor producing FIM-92 Stinger missiles and a contractor for the French defense manufacturer Thomson-CSF. The latter two were acquitted after the judge presiding over their case claimed that they had the right to engage in industrial espionage as the technology in question belonged to a foreign nation. The fact that the folders containing the documents were mailed through the regular post service and were not properly marked as classified also played a role in the court's decision. The court-martial also ended in the officer's favor, after Bokhan's testimony was judged to be inadequate for a conviction.

In 1989, New Democracy MP Pavlos Bakoyannis was assassinated by members of Revolutionary Organization 17 November. New Democracy and CIA leveled the accusation that the PASOK political party was behind the creation of 17 November and Revolutionary People's Struggle (ELA) another Greek far left terrorist organization. The New Democracy leadership continued to insist that the former had collaborated with PASOK even after 17 November disbanded in 2003. 17 November had in fact been founded by Alexandros Giotopoulos, a staunch opponent of the Greek military junta of 1967–1974 and former member of the Paris anti–junta circles.

1990s
On 5 March 1991, EYP conducted a series of arrests of Palestinian terrorists in Athens, seizing a number of explosive devices. On 19 April 1991, Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine militant Hashaykem Ahmed perpetrated a bombing in the city of Patras. The bombing resulted in seven fatalities and an equal number of injured. EYP had warned the central police headquarters that the leader of the local Palestinian student's union was an Islamic Jihad member and possessed weaponry on 3 April. On 16 April, EYP once again issued a communique warning of a possible Islamic Jihad attack in Patras. It was later revealed that the central police headquarters had failed to pass the information to their Patras colleagues. A connection between the perpetrators of the bombing and the Palestine Liberation Organization led to the expulsion of five Palestinian diplomats and eight other Palestinians. The level of EYP's awareness of Islamic Jihad's movements within the country led to allegations by a number of people including the former interior minister Ioannis Skoularikis that the bombing had been a false flag operation by either CIA or Mossad.

Recent Years
During the recent years, EYP has also been active regarding cases of corruption in Greek football, such as the 2015 Greek football scandal and various attacks to Greek referees.

In 2021, a former Greek intelligence officer, who was in charge of the Kyrenia branch of the Greek National Intelligence Service admitted that Greece and the Junta of Dimitrios Ioannidis knew about the invasion from at least April of 1974, saying that "if the Greek leadership wanted, the Turks would have suffered annihilation", this was said in an interview with the Cypriot state broadcaster, RIK. The Officer also claims that all the evidence he had on this issue was also turned in to the Greek parliament during their investigation of the events of Cyprus (Later to be known as the Cyprus File), adding more details and claiming that although he was sending important intelligence signals to his superiors in Greece, he was getting no reply or instructions, including after informing them of the Turkish Military movements in the area saying " “It was as if they already knew everything and didn't need any additional information.”

In 2022, it was revealed that the National Intelligence Service tapped the mobile phone of opposition politician Nikos Androulakis, which led to immediate resignation of Greece's intelligence chief and the head of his personal office.

In 2023 the Agency introduced a Cybersecurity Center. The new Security Operation Center (SOC) will operate in EYP’s Cyberspace Directorate and will be in charge of monitoring, detecting and responding to cyber threats and security breaches of the country’s governmental digital infrastructure.

Other information
The agency's motto is the ancient Greek phrase "Λόγων ἀπορρήτων ἐκφορὰν μὴ ποιοῦ" (translated roughly as "Do not discuss confidential affairs"), a quote attributed to the Corinthian tyrant and philosopher Periander.

EYP is rumored to operate one of the largest criminal databases of any intelligence agency. In addition, it possesses a large volume of classified information about criminal hubs, activities and organizations operating throughout the European Union.

title: National Intelligence Service (Greece)


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Ron Goulart

Ronald Joseph Goulart ((January 13, 1933 - January 14, 2022) was an American popular culture historian and mystery, fantasy and science fiction author.

He worked on novels and novelizations (and other works) being published under various pseudonyms such as: Kenneth Robeson, Con Steffanson, Chad Calhoun, R. T. Edwards, Ian R. Jamieson, Josephine Kains, Jillian Kearny, Howard Lee, Zeke Masters, Frank S. Shawn, and Joseph Silva.

Life and career
Goulart was born in Berkeley, California, on January 13, 1933. He attended the University of California, Berkeley, and worked there as an advertising copywriter in San Francisco while he started to write fiction.

Goulart's first professional publication was a 1952 reprint of the science fiction story "Letters to the Editor" in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction; this parody of a pulp magazine letters column was originally published in the University of California, Berkeley's Pelican. His early career in advertising and marketing, influenced most of his work. In the early 1960s, Goulart wrote the text for Chex Press, a newspaper parody published on Ralston Purina cereal boxes (Wheat Chex, Rice Chex, Corn Chex). He then wrote dozens of novels and countless short stories spanning many genres, using a variety of pennames He contributed to P.S. and other magazines, along with his book review column for Venture Science Fiction Magazine. Cheap Thrills: An Informal History of the Pulp Magazines (1972) is his best known non-fiction book.

Fiction
Goulart's fiction is characterized by several themes, including technology gone wrong (usually through incompetence rather than malice) and protagonists with superhuman powers. The characteristic style of his work is satire and anarchic humor. His crime and science fiction works include tales about robots and historical Hollywood figures, such as Groucho Marx. In the 1970s, he wrote several novels based on Lee Falk's The Phantom for Avon Books, using the pseudonym "Frank Shawn" (a play on his wife and son's name. He has also written comic book stories and short stories about The Phantom for Moonstone Books from 2003 to the present. As a commercial freelance writer, Goulart has written novelizations for television programs such as Laverne & Shirley, as well as romance novels using female pseudonyms.

It is widely known that Goulart ghost wrote the TekWar series of books credited to the actor William Shatner (Shatner is said to have written the outlines for the books). He has also ghosted novels featuring the Phantom, Flash Gordon and the pulp character The Avenger.

A collection of his mystery short stories, Adam and Eve on a Raft, was published in 2001 by Crippen & Landru.

Comics
In the early 1970s, Goulart wrote several scripts for Marvel Comics, mostly adaptations of classic science fiction stories. Later in the decade, he collaborated with artist Gil Kane on the Star Hawks newspaper strip. In the early 1990s, he scripted Marvel's TekWar comics series.

Personal life and death
Goulart was married to author Frances Sheridan Goulart and has two sons, Sean-Lucien and Steffan Eamon. He died from respiratory arrest at a nursing home in Ridgefield, Connecticut, on January 14, 2022, one day after his 89th birthday.

Awards
Goulart was nominated twice for the Edgar Award, once for his 1970 science fiction novel After Things Fell Apart. He was awarded the Inkpot Award in 1989.

Non-fiction

 * The Hardboiled Dicks: An Anthology and Study of Pulp Detective Fiction (1967)
 * Assault on Childhood (1970)
 * Cheap Thrills: An Informal History of the Pulp Magazines (1972)
 * The Adventurous Decade: Comic Strips In the Thirties (Crown Publishers, 1975) ISBN 9780870002526
 * Comic Book Culture: An Illustrated History (1980)
 * The Dime Detectives (1982)
 * The Great Comic Book Artists (St. Martin's Press, 1986) ISBN 978-0312345570
 * Focus on Jack Cole (1986)
 * Ron Goulart's Great History of Comic Books: the Definitive Illustrated History from the 1890s to the 1980s (Contemporary Books, 1986) ISBN 978-0809250455
 * (editor) The Encyclopedia of American Comics: From 1897 to the Present (Facts on File, 1991) ISBN 978-0816018529
 * The Comic Book Reader's Companion: an A-Z Guide to Everyone's Favorite Art Form (Harper Perennial, 1993) ISBN 9780062731173
 * Masked Marvels and Jungle Queens: Great Comic Book Covers of the '40s (1993)
 * The Funnies: 100 Years of American Comic Strips (Adams Media Corp, 1995) ISBN 9781558505391
 * Comic Book Encyclopedia: The Ultimate Guide to Characters, Graphic Novels, Writers, and Artists in the Comic Book Universe (Harper Collins, 2004) ISBN 978-0060538163
 * Good Girl Art (2006)
 * Good Girl Art Around the World (2008)
 * Alex Raymond: An Artistic Journey: Adventure, Intrigue, and Romance (2016)

Non-series novels

 * Ghost Breaker (1971)
 * Wildsmith (1972)
 * The Tin Angel (1973)
 * The Tremendous Adventures of Bernie Wine (1975)
 * The Hellhound Project (1975)
 * When the Waker Sleeps (1975)
 * Cleopatra Jones and the Casino of Gold (1975)
 * The Enormous Hourglass (1976)
 * The Emperor of the Last Days (1977)
 * Nemo (1977)
 * Challengers of the Unknown (1977)
 * The Island of Dr Moreau (1977) (writing as Joseph Silva)
 * Capricorn One (1978)
 * Cowboy Heaven (1979)
 * Holocaust for Hire (1979) (writing as Joseph Silva)
 * Skyrocket Steele (1980)
 * The Robot in the Closet (1981)
 * Upside Downside (1982)
 * The Great British Detective (1982)
 * Ghosting (1982)
 * Hellquad (1984)
 * Suicide, Inc. (1985)
 * A Graveyard of My Own (1985)
 * The Tijuana Bible (1989)
 * Even the Butler Was Poor (1990)
 * Now He Thinks He's Dead (1992)
 * Murder on the Aisle (1996)

Novel series

 * Flash Gordon (Alex Raymond's original story)
 * The Lion Men of Mongo (1974)('adapted by' Con Steffanson)
 * The Space Circus (1974)('adapted by' Con Steffanson)
 * The Plague of Sound (1974)('adapted by' Con Steffanson)
 * The Time Trap of Ming XIII (1974)('adapted by' Con Steffanson)
 * The Witch Queen of Mongo (1974)('adapted by' Carson Bingham)
 * The War of the Cybernauts (1975)('adapted by' Carson Bingham)
 * The Phantom (writing as Frank S Shawn)
 * The Golden Circle (1973)
 * The Hydra Monster (1973)
 * The Mystery of the Sea Horse (1973)
 * The Veiled Lady (1973)
 * The Swamp Rats (1974)
 * The Goggle-Eyed Pirates (1974)
 * Vampirella
 * Bloodstalk (1975)
 * On Alien Wings (1975)
 * Deadwalk (1976)
 * Blood Wedding (1976)
 * Deathgame (1976)
 * Snakegod (1976)
 * Vampirella (1976)

 * Avenger
 * The Man from Atlantis (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * Red Moon (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Purple Zombie (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * Dr. Time (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Nightwitch Devil (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * Black Chariots (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Cartoon Crimes (1974) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Death Machine (1975) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Blood Countess (1975) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Glass Man (1975) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * The Iron Skull (1975) (as Kenneth Robeson)
 * Demon Island (1975) (as Kenneth Robeson)

 * Barnum System
 * The Fire-Eater (1970)
 * Clockwork Pirates (1971)
 * Shaggy Planet (1973)
 * Spacehawk, Inc. (1974)
 * The Wicked Cyborg (1978)
 * Dr. Scofflaw (1979)
 * Barnum System – Jack Summer
 * Death Cell (1971)
 * Plunder (1972)
 * A Whiff of Madness (1976)
 * Galaxy Jane (1986)
 * Barnum System – Ben Jolson
 * The Sword Swallower (1968)
 * Flux (1974)
 * Barnum System – Star Hawks
 * Empire 99 (1980)
 * The Cyborg King (1981)
 * Barnum System – The Exchameleon
 * Daredevils, LTD. (1987)
 * Starpirate's Brain (1987)
 * Everybody Comes to Cosmo's (1988)

 * Jack Conger
 * A Talent for the Invisible (1973)
 * The Panchronicon Plot (1977)
 * Hello, Lemuria, Hello (1979)

 * Odd Jobs, Inc.
 * Calling Dr. Patchwork (1978)
 * Hail Hibbler (1980)
 * Big Bang (1982)
 * Brainz, Inc. (1985)

 * Fragmented America
 * After Things Fell Apart (1970)
 * Gadget Man (1971)
 * Hawkshaw (1972)
 * When the Waker Sleeps (1975)
 * Crackpot (1977)
 * Brinkman (1981)

 * Gypsy
 * Quest of the Gypsy (1976)
 * Eye of the Vulture (1977)

 * Marvel Novel Series (as Joseph Silva; with Len Wein and Marv Wolfman)
 * Incredible Hulk: Stalker from the Stars (1977)
 * Captain America: Holocaust for Hire (1979)

 * Harry Challenge
 * The Prisoner of Blackwood Castle (1984)
 * The Curse of the Obelisk (1987)

 * Groucho Marx
 * Groucho Marx, Master Detective (1998)
 * Groucho Marx, Private Eye (1999)
 * Elementary, My Dear Groucho (1999)
 * Groucho Marx and the Broadway Murders (2001)
 * Groucho Marx, Secret Agent (2002)
 * Groucho Marx, King of the Jungle (2005)

Short fiction

 * Collections
 * Broke Down Engine: And Other Troubles with Machines (1971)
 * The Chameleon Corps: And Other Shape Changers (1972)
 * What's Become of Screwloose?: And Other Inquiries (1972)
 * Odd Job 101: And Other Future Crimes And Intrigues (1974)
 * Nutzenbolts: And More Troubles with Machines (1975)
 * Skyrocket Steele Conquers the Universe: And Other Media Tales (1990)
 * Adam and Eve On a Raft: Mystery Stories (Crippen & Landru, 2001)
 * Stories
 * "Ella Speed", Fantastic, April 1960
 * "Subject to Change" Galaxy Science Fiction, October 1960
 * Harry Challenge Series
 * The Secret of the Black Chateau – Espionage Magazine, February 1985
 * Monster of the Maze – Espionage Magazine, February 1986
 * The Phantom Highwayman – The Ultimate Halloween, edited by Marvin Kaye (2001)
 * The Woman in the Mist – The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, December, 2002
 * The Incredible Steam Man – The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, May, 2003
 * The Secret of the Scarab – The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, April, 2005
 * The Problem of the Missing Werewolf – H. P. Lovecraft's Magazine of Horror #4, (Spring / Summer 2007)
 * The Mystery of the Missing Automaton – Sherlock Holmes Mystery Magazine #1, (Winter 2008)
 * The Mystery of the Flying Man – Sherlock Holmes Mystery Magazine #2, (Spring 2009)
 * The Secret of the City of Gold – The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, January / February 2012
 * The Somerset Wonder –

title: Ron Goulart


text:
Driverless

Driverless may refer to:
 * A computer able to configure itself, without explicit driver software, see Plug-'n'-Play.
 * A train without a human driver, see Automatic train operation.
 * A vehicle which navigates without human input, see Autonomous car.
 * Driverless tractor
 * Driverless (film), a 2010 Chinese film directed by Zhang Yang.

title: Driverless


text:
Tom Godwin

Tom Godwin (June 6, 1915 – August 31, 1980) was an American science fiction author active throughout the 1950s into the 1970s. In his career, Godwin published three novels and around thirty short stories. He is best known for his short story, "The Cold Equations". Published in 1954, the short story was Godwin’s fourth work to be published and was one whose controversial dark ending helped redefine the genre.

Early life and education
Godwin was born in Maryland in 1915. He had a rough childhood that was marked by much loss and suffering. At the age of five, his younger sister died as a result of an accidental shooting that occurred after he had been "playing with the gun that killed her". After his mother's death, he was raised by his father, with whom he did not have the best relationship. He withdrew from school after the third grade, but he went on to teach himself multiple other subjects to expand his knowledge and be able to write better stories.

Personal life
Godwin had a spinal disorder known as kyphosis, which results in a curvature of the spine, making him appear hunchbacked. He spent a few months in the Army before he was discharged due to his spinal condition worsening.

In the early 1960s, Godwin was living in a remote area of northwestern Arizona with his father while writing and making his own drywashers to sell. It was in the summer of 1961 that he met his future wife, Laureola Godwin, and his then twelve-year-old step-daughter, whom he later adopted, Diane Godwin Sullivan, through the sale of one of his drywashers. He went on to base two of the main characters in his second novel, The Space Barbarians, after them.

He worked for the forest service in Washington state for a short period of time. His wife died from a heart attack in the early 1970s. This was something that had a heavy impact on him for the rest of his life. After living with his adopted daughter and her family in Texas for some time after his wife's death, he moved to Nevada.

Death
Throughout his life, Godwin battled with alcohol abuse with varying degrees of success in being able to control it. It was his wife's death that eventually led him to be "consume[d]" by drinking which led to many health problems. Godwin died in a Las Vegas hospital in the summer of 1980. He did not have any identification on him so his body was held at a funeral home until a friend of his who was a physician assistant learned of his death and contacted his daughter, Diane.

Novels
Ragnarok series:
 * The Survivors (Gnome Press, 1958; also known as Space Prison, Pyramid Books, 1960)
 * The Space Barbarians (Pyramid Books, 1964)

Others:
 * Beyond Another Sun (Curtis, 1971)

Short stories

 * "The Gulf Between" in Astounding, October 1953
 * "Mother of Invention" in Astounding, December 1953
 * "The Greater Thing" in Astounding, February 1954
 * "The Cold Equations" in Astounding, August 1954
 * "No Species Alone" in Universe, November 1954
 * "You Created Us" in Fantastic Universe, October 1955
 * "The Barbarians" in If, December 1955
 * "Operation Opera" in Fantasy and Science Fiction, April 1956
 * "Brain Teaser" in If, October 1956
 * "Too Soon to Die" (basis for his novel The Survivors) in Venture, March 1957
 * "The Harvest" in Venture, July 1957
 * "The Last Victory" in If, August 1957
 * "The Nothing Equation" in Amazing, December 1957
 * "The Wild Ones" in Science Fiction Stories, January 1958
 * "My Brother - The Ape" in Amazing, January 1958
 * "Cry From a Far Planet" in Amazing, September 1958
 * "A Place Beyond the Stars" in Super-Science Fiction, February 1959
 * "Empathy" in Fantastic, October 1959
 * "The Helpful Hand of God" in Analog, December 1961
 * "...and Devious the Line of Duty" in Analog, December 1962
 * "Desert Execution" in The Man from U.N.C.L.E. Magazine, July 1967
 * "The Gentle Captive" in the original story anthology Signs and Wonders (1972)
 * "She Was a Child" in Mike Shayne Mystery Magazine, April 1973
 * "We'll Walk Again in the Moonlight" in the anthology Crisis (1974)
 * "Backfire" in Ed McBain's 87th Precinct Mystery Magazine, April 1975
 * "The Steel Guardian" in Antaeus, Spring/Summer 1977
 * "Social Blunder" in Amazing, July 1977
 * "Before Willows Ever Walked" in Fantasy and Science Fiction, March 1980

Collections
The following stories are collected in the book, The Cold Equations & Other Stories ed. Eric Flint (Baen Books, 2004):
 * "The Survivors" • novel
 * "The Harvest" • short story
 * "Brain Teaser" • short story
 * "Mother of Invention" • novella
 * "...and Devious the Line of Duty" • novelette
 * "Empathy" • novelette
 * "No Species Alone" • novelette
 * "The Gulf Between" • novella
 * "The Cold Equations" • novelette

title: Tom Godwin


text:
Talk:Banat

Banat
I agree that "Banat" by itself means the serbian/romanian/hungarian banat. But look at the article text and at the picture. Like this, it sounds like "Banat" by itself means the Romanian part. And BTW, always? Zocky 11:45, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The text attached to the map clearly said that is the Romanian (part of) Banat. Serbs called their part "Voivodina", but romanians called their part "Banat" -- MihaiC

This page seems a bit romanocentric to me as well. The map only indicates the Romanian part of the Banat, and the msg: below does not mention the "Historical Regions of the Habsburg Empire" or so, but just other Romanian regions. Fransvannes 23:39, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC) -- I think article is fine. I uploaded here map of Serbian Banat as well as map of Banat during Austro-Hungarian rule (So, article is complete now). PANONIAN --

Many great thanks to great Romanian editor for make sure article conform nice good way. Alexandermoir (talk) 04:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Banat region
is there a region Banat ? i understand there was a Elayet of Temesvar, that encompased all the teritory of Banat. but when exactly was Banat known as Banat, having a defined administrative status as Banat region/province/elayet/bansag ? -- Criztu 28 June 2005 12:43 (UTC)

Here is quote from the article: ''It received the title of Banat after the Treaty of Passarowitz (1718), and remained a separate province of Habsburg Monarchy under military administration until 1751, when Maria Theresa introduced a civil administration. The Banat province was abolished in 1778. The southern part of the Banat remained part of the Military Frontier (Banat Krajina) until it was abolished in 1871.'' So, Austrian province named Banat existed between 1718 and 1778. Today, Banat is geographical region. User:PANONIAN

History
This needs a section on the period during World War 2 when the Banat region in Danube Banovina was an autonomous region in German-occupied Serbia ruled by its German minority. Or at least a link to the Danube Bonovina page where this information is contained, though information about this period is generally scant on Wikipedia. Anybody knowledgeable about it?59.167.6.155 04:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

A link to here would be good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat%2C_1941-194459.167.6.155 04:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

have to be revised: - Ajtony was orthodox before the Great Scism??? - what Serbian uprisign are we talking?? not even the Serbs history Wiki Page speaks about such an uprising? - No words about the Serbian Conquest ... --fz22 12:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The eastern form of Christianity existed before the Great Scism. The Great Scism was only official split of two branches of Christianity, but de facto division existed before that. PANONIAN   (talk)  13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree, but using this modern form 'Orthodox' is bizarre. Plus is a lame excuse which follows the formula: Othodox->vlach or slav->had nothing to do with Arpad's Magyars->opponent of the feudal Hungarian state->the Kingdom conquered the region etc etc
 * Sorry, but even Hungarian historians used term 'Orthodox' to describe the religion of Ahtum (Peter Rokai, Zoltan Đere, Tibor Pal, Aleksandar Kasaš, Istorija Mađara, Beograd, 2002). I do not see how else we can describe this. PANONIAN   (talk)  19:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think so ... They have used "gorog-keleti" instead ... the term "Byzantine-Rite" is more adequate here--fz22 20:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the book I quoted is in Serbian (but written by Hungarian historians), so they did not used word "gorog-keleti", but the exact quotation is: "Oblasni gospodar Ajtonj, koji je u Vidinu prešao u pravoslavlje, imao je, i posle pokrštavanja, sedam žena". The English translation: "The local ruler Ajtonj (Ahtum) became Orthodox Christian (pravoslavlje) in Vidin, but even after he was baptised, he had seven wives". Also, I think that it is important to keep word Orthodox, because most of the current inhabitants of Banat are Orthodox Christians, thus it is important that they know that somebody of their faith ruled over the region in that time. As a sort of compromise we can use both names, something like Orthodox (Byzantine-Rite). PANONIAN   (talk)  22:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The Serb uprising in Banat in 1594 was one of the 3 largest uprisings of Serbs in history (the other two are those in 1804 led by Karađorđe and in 1815 led by Miloš Obrenović). If some other Wiki pages do not speak about it, then it is because nobody wrote that there yet (History of Serbia article speak about it for example). And what Serbian conquest you talk about? PANONIAN   (talk)  13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * the well known immigration of Serbs into Szeremseg in the early 15th century, Bacska in the 17th century up toward Szentendre ... this process is quite well documented--fz22 18:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * But that certainly cannot be described as "conquest". Besides this, what you mentioned were only some of many Serb migrations to the region, not to mentioned that some Serbs lived here even from the Slavic migration in the 6th and 7th century, and not to mention that until the 13th century Banat was mostly populated with Slavs, who, if not all of them were Serbs, have spoke the same language as Serbs today. So, the story about Serbian "conquest" is only a science fiction story developed by the nationalistic Hungarian historians in the 19th century. Of course, it is nice that there are many objective Hungarian historians who do not try to deny that most of the Pannonian plain had Slavic ethnic character in the time when Kingdom of Hungary was created. PANONIAN   (talk)  19:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Here Conquest = Honfoglalas for me ... --fz22 20:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not understand what you want to say. PANONIAN   (talk)  22:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I don't think there is term in English for Hungarian "honfoglalas" conquest. This is not just a simple "conqering the land by force of arms"--fz22 08:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, but the problem is that nationalist people in all countries in our region think that their neighbours "conquered" parts of "their" lands. Same thing you will hear from Serbs, same from Albanians, same from Croats, same from Bulgarians, etc, etc... During the centuries, different regions and cities were inhabited by different peoples and nobody cannot claim that their neighbours "conquered" something from him. We all came to this region from somewhere. The ancient inhabitants of Balkans were Palazgians who spoke a language similar to basque. All Indo-European, Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples came later. So, we all in fact "conquered" the land of Palazgians and we all are "land thiefs". The question is: can somebody stole something from a thief when he already stole this from somebody else? PANONIAN   (talk)  14:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree, so this is why we have to elucidate those people. Most of Magyars do not deny that there were slavic people in the region during the Hungarian conquest. But it is also undeniable that between the 15th-18th century almost half a million Serbian refugges immingrated into this deserted land while the Magyars simple died out ... --fz22 15:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Many Serbs did settled in the region between 14th and 16th century, and so did the Magyars in the centuries before that. What is a big difference between Serb and Magyar settling? PANONIAN   (talk)  14:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

References please
Can we please have some references for the demographic data, it just says that "according to 1774 data", is that a census, which one (from which country). Thanks. AdrianTM 09:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

 * In what other page you want to use this data? The reference where I found this data is this book: Miodrag Milin, Vekovima zajedno (iz istorije srpsko-rumunskih odnosa), Temišvar, 1995. Book is in Serbian, but it is published in Timisoara by the Serb minority of Romania. The numbers given there are statistical data for the year 1774, but are based on the 1771/1772 census. However, this census was partial, meaning it did not presented data for all settlements, thus the 1774 data are in fact corrected data from 1771/1772 census. PANONIAN   (talk)  13:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I was thinking to balance the data from Timisoara with the info that in 1774 there were less than 2400 Hungarians in all the Banat region. AdrianTM 15:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Geographical region
a geographical region would be the Pannonian Plain, as it is a geographical unit, a plain. Banat is not a geographical unit, not a mountain, not a plain, not a river, it is thus a historical, or informal region. at best Banat could be a political region Political geography, but it is not a political region, it was a political region, today it is only a historic thing. Criztu 12:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Pannonian Plain, Banat, Transylvania, Bukovina...everything is geographical here. Everything that exist today is geographical. Term "geographical" do not designate only mountain or plain, but also a territory that have its own geographical name (but that do not exist in political sense). On the contrary, term "historical" designate something that existed in the past, but that does not exist any more. If you live in Timisoara for example, you say that you live in Banat, so in which Banat you live? Do you live in a region for which name Banat is used today (in the geographical sence) or you live in the historical Banat of Temeswar that existed in the 18th century. Since this is 21st and not 18th century, I would say that you do not live in historical Banat, but in geographical one. PANONIAN   (talk)  12:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And by the way, see this for definition of the term: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Region#Geographical_regions PANONIAN   (talk)  13:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * pff, i read wikipedia "historical regions can be used to designate geographical areas", i cant object to that, altho i regard Banat as an informal and historical region Criztu 13:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the current intro say that Banat is both, geographical and historical region, no matter that my personal opinion is that word "historical" is wrong here because we have separate article about Banat of Temeswar. So, you object to word "geographical", and I object to word "historical", thus we already have a compromise version of the article, dont we? :) PANONIAN   (talk)  14:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Turkic "-ate"

 * Turkic like the title itself (brought by the Sarmatians - cf. Sultan/Sultanate, Emir/Emirate, Caliph/Caliphate, and Khan/Khanate).

The "-ate" suffix in those cases is Latinate, those words being derived by the western world from the title of the ruler, see etymology at dictionary.com. bogdan 10:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Demographics
I was under the impression that in the early modern times and especially (or at least) throughout the Late Middle Ages Banat had a mostly Slavic (Serbian) character - is this true and if it is, why isn't the article reflected in that way? Also - Hungarians and Serbs seem to be mostly conflicting over Banat's history - but Romanians seem to be the largest ethnic group there for a long time. Roday Romanian Banat is populated almost exclusivly by Romanians (there are Serbian minorities), while Serbian Banat contains a large Romanian minority. What's the issue? --PaxEquilibrium 20:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

 * You had a wrong impression. Romanian and Serbs are both orthodox, until second half of 19th century Romanian Orthodox church in Banat was under Serbian jurisdiction (it was bishop Andrei Şaguna who realised the split between Romanian and Serbian orthodox churches). In Middle Ages religion not language was the most important cultural factor, Romanian language became a written language only in 16th century, and only in 1688 was published a complete Bible in Romanian. Untill 17th century and in some parts even in the first half of 18th century, in the entire Romanian teritory (not only in Banat) the language of church was Old Slavonic. This is why some confusions appeared. In early statistics, by the word "rascians" is included both Serbs and Romanians--MariusM 09:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Are you sure that name "Rascians" was used for Romanians too? I never heard this before. I only know that name "Vlachs" was used for both, Romanians and Serbs. Anyway, during the Ottoman rule, eastern Banat was mainly populated by Romanians, western Banat mainly by Serbs and central Banat had mixed Serb-Romanian population. During the Habsburg rule, many Germans settled in central Banat and population became even more mixed. The city of Timisoara for example in different periods had Hungarian, Turkish, Serbian or German ethnic majority, and that reflect all complexity of the ethnic relations in the area.  PANONIAN   (talk)  13:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

This is how the situation is presented in "Timişoara (monografie)" by Ioan and Rodica Munteanu, Mirton Publishing Press, Timişoara 2001. No mention in that monography about a Serbian majority ever in Timişoara, the first statistic presented is from 1851, with 8775 Germans, 3807 Romanians, 2346 Hungarians and 1770 Serbians (total 20560) in Timişoara.--MariusM 07:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, history certainly does not start in 1851. According to my sources (Dr. Dušan J. Popović, Srbi u Vojvodini, knjige 1-3, Novi Sad, 1990), Serbs were majority in Timisoara in 1720, and according to the sources added here by other Wikipedian (captain Graf Paolo Wallis - Neumann, Victor: Istoria evreilor din Banat. Buc. 1999), the population of the city after it was captured by the Ottomans (i. e. in the same time) numbered 600-700 inhabitants out of which 446 were Serbs, 144 Jewish, and 35 Armenians. PANONIAN   (talk)  11:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * And of course, explanation for this is very simple: during the Ottoman rule, the majority in the city were Turks, while Serbs were largest minority. After 1718, the Turks left from the city, but the Serbs remained and they were majority there in the 18th century until Germans started to settle in the city. PANONIAN   (talk)  11:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Zero Romanians in 1720? Is it used in the original statistic the word "Serb" or "Rascian"? I wonder if there are statistics in that time which differentiate the Serbs from Romanians, as orthodox faith was considered more important than language. In 1700 part of Romanians in Transylvania were converted at Greek-catholic faith, those who remained orthodox (a majority in Banat) possible that prefered an orthodox identity than a national Romanian identity, in order not to be confused with the greek catholics.--MariusM 12:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * "Zero Romanians in 1720?" Well, not exactly. My source in fact claim this: "In 1720 majority in Timisoara were Serbs and besides them, Romanians and Spanish Jews also lived in the city." So, I assume that other source is in fact wrong and that it listed Armenians instead of Romanians (the names are similar, so it is possibly that somebody made a mistake - but I only guess here). You should see who added this data to Wikipedia and ask him does his source mention Armenians or Romanians. Regarding statistics from 1715 and 1720 censuses, I know for sure that these statistics did not recorded ethnic groups, but they recorded something else: personal and family names of the people, thus research of these names showed exactly who was Serb (or Slav), Romanian, Hungarian, German, etc. I do not have exact data for Banat from these censuses, but for example according to the 1715 census, in the entire Bačka there was only 40 houses whose heads did not had a Slavic names. PANONIAN   (talk)  18:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Census by family name? Hm. My name is slavic, yet I'm Romanian. We have many Romanians whose name is Vlad, Popovici, Eminovici, a.s.o. Given that Romanian is 10-15% Slavic in vocabulary, this is normal. Hell, maybe 20% of the Romanian population could claim EU/Slovenian naturalization based on their names. Dpotop 09:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope we don't have the same problem with Serbs as we do with Hungarians, Bulgarians, a.s.o. Everyone seems to say that Romanians somehow immigrated on **their** "historic territory", and then deviously overthrew their superb kingdom/principality/ethnic majority, and this is the cause of all evil ever since (the last x years, with x>500). :) Dpotop 09:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you certainly cannot explain origin of surnames ending with -ic, -in, -ov and -ev with Slavic words in Romanian vocabulary. Words in vocabulary are one thing and surnames are something else. From the Slavic words in Romanian you would have surnames with Slavic base and Romanian sufix, but certainly not surnames with Slavic sufix. Anyway, since central Banat had in the past mixed Serb-Romanian population, and since they both were Orthodox, they mixed a lot one with another (much more than they mixed with Germans or Hungarians), so, the existence of such surnames among Romanians is not surprize. Regarding your claims about "problem with Serbs", "historic territory", etc, as far as I know there were never such problems between Serbs and Romanians and therefore I do not understand why User:PaxEquilibrium opened this question at all. I certainly do not intent to claim that "Romanians migrated to Serb historic territory", but if for example, the city of Timisoara had Serb majority in the early 18th century, I do not see why any Romanian would have problem to mention that. There were also some places in Serbian part of Banat that in the past had Romanian majority and now have Serbian, and I do not have problem if we mention this. I expanded now section about population in this article, quoting what my sources say, and if you have some other sources that claim something else, please post that in the article. PANONIAN   (talk)  14:45, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Here you can see who added this data mentioning Armenians instead of Romanians in the city population: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timi%C5%9Foara&diff=55907085&oldid=55881411 Since my own source claim that population was composed of Serbs, Romanians and Jews, there is very good chance that term Romanians was replaced with term Armenians in this edit. PANONIAN   (talk)  19:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just a short note: the confusion with Armenians might come from "Armân" not from Romanian. It would be strange though for those sources to treat Serbs and Romanians together, but differentiate between Romanians and Aromanians, I'm also not sure if there were Aromanians in that area. -- AdrianTM 19:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, as I said, we have two sources about this and both sources mention 3 groups that lived in the city. In both sources, Serbs and Jews are mentioned, but in one source the third group are Romanians and in another Armenians. So, it is very likely that confuse is indeed between Romanians and Armenians, but I cannot tell you which of the two sources is wrong because I do not know. And I do not think that these sources treat Serbs and Romanians together, in fact, 1720 census did not mentioned any ethnic group at all, so personal and family names mentioned there are the only indication of ethnicity from the census. However, there might be some other sources that mention ethnicity, but I am not aware of them. PANONIAN   (talk)  14:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

It is very complicated to say if the Serbs were the majority or the Romanians in the banat during the Middle Ages. The fact is that many sources from the Middle Ages say that in the territory of Caras-Severin the population was "Vlach". Even the names of aristocratic families were Romanian names. The old sources only mention a Slavic population in the South West of the Banat and in the North of Lugos (Lugoj). And the North-West was mainly Hungarian-speaking (Temesköz), but is not any more. The Hungarians living there today are a minority.Öcsi 11:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Bullshit, hard to say if Romanians were a majority? Romanians live on these land for more than 2000 years. And population that you call "Vlach" are Romanians! That is how Slavic people called Romanians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iadrian yu (talk • contribs) 13:31, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

 * You speak here about time before Ottoman conquest in the 16th century, right? In the first half of the 18th century, there were no Hungarians in Banat at all, according to my sources. PANONIAN   (talk)  15:04, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The Middle Ages were before the Ottoman conquest. Öcsi 16:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Recent demographics
It would be nice if somebody can post data about ethnic composition of Romanian Banat only from any census between 1919 and 2002. PANONIAN  (talk)  12:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've added the 2002 census figures. Mentatus 13:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I have just added the demographic data for the Romanian Banat as recorded by censuses since 1880. I have also re-organise a bit the whole demographic section, as it was quite a mess. I suggest that we should probably follow the same format even for the Serbian Banat (with all the data presented in one single table). It is a lot easier to read it in this way. Alexrap 17:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I have now re-organised the demographic data for the Serbian Banat, as well. It is now in a single table. I haven't verified or changed any of the data, I just copy+pasted it from the way it was organised before (with different subsections for each year). Alexrap 11:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

1910 census
I have found this about the 1910 census: In backa: 43,2%- was hungarian, 22,5%-a german, and just the 28,1%-a south slav. In Banat: the population's 19,9%-a was hungarian, 23,1%-a german and 39,9%-south slav.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pannonia (talk • contribs) 16:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

 * Of course and I found in 1715 census in Bačka 97.6% South Slavs and only 1.9% Hungarians and in Banat in 1774 58.55% Romanians, 26.61% Serbs and Greeks and only 0.64% Hungarians and Bulgarians. What that can tell you? PANONIAN  If you want peace and prosperity for your country then you are a patriot, but if your patriotism is bigger than the borders of your country then you are a serious threat to World peace. 17:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

It's funny to hear this from you... Of course your info from the 1715 census is correct. You know, this is the part in the hungarian history, when its population has rapidly increased: from 2 580 000 changed to 8 420 000 (There is a 5 420 000 diff), because a lots of people settled down in the country (slavs, romanians, germans etc.). Pannonia 22:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually the Hungarian population had largest increase during this time period because many Slavs and Germans were Magyarized during this time - in the 18th century Hungarian was almost dead language, but number of its speakers much increased until 1910. PANONIAN  If you want peace and prosperity for your country then you are a patriot, but if your patriotism is bigger than the borders of your country then you are a serious threat to World peace. 15:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

And according to Chronicals from the Middle Ages, in the 15th century more than 60% of the Banat's and about 80% of the Bacska's inabitants were Hungarian. What that can tell you? :) --Öcsi 13:42, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

 * First, data from the Middle Ages is partially unreliable, but anyway, just go back to the 9th century before Hungarians came to Central Europe when these areas where almost entirelly inhabited by Slavs: http://curug.rastko.net/karte/img/5_varvari_vizantija.jpg PANONIAN  If you want peace and prosperity for your country then you are a patriot, but if your patriotism is bigger than the borders of your country then you are a serious threat to World peace. 14:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

As I said, the number of the etnics increased in the 18. century, because they settled down in Hungary. The etnic content differenc between the two centuries in the south part of Hungary was so significant, that the maps from the 18 use the word "Rácország" Rác= Serb, ország=country for that region.Pannonia 19:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Those people did not settled in Hungary but in Habsburg Monarchy (and most of those lands were part of Habsburg Military provinces). Also, total number of them did increased but their percentual participation decreased because of magyarization and Hungarian colonization from central parts of the Pannonian Plain to the south. By the way, name Rácország/Rascia is in use for this area from the 15th century. PANONIAN  If you want peace and prosperity for your country then you are a patriot, but if your patriotism is bigger than the borders of your country then you are a serious threat to World peace. 21:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry, but they settled down in Hungary. The caiser(s) of austria, like Maria Theresia was (were) "Holy Roman Empress,Archduchess of Austria, Queen of Hungary, Bohemia, Croatia and Slavonia, Duchess of Parma and Piacenza, Grand Duchess of Tuscany". Hungary existed, but it was part of the Habsburg Monarchy. And the vajdaság was the part of the Hungarian Kingdom. Pannonia 21:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No, they did not settled in Hungary - Habsburg Military provinces included entire Banat, most of Bačka and even northern bank of the river Mures and these provinces were under completelly separate administration, not to mention difference between Kingdom of Hungary (that existed before 1918) and Hungary (that existed after 1918) - those are very different terms. So, the Kingdom of Hungary did existed in the first half of the 18th century but it did not included Banat and most of Bačka (not to mention Slavonia, Syrmia or Transylvania...). And this is talk page in English, so please do not use Hungarian name "vajdaság" because readers that do not speak Hungarian would not know what that mean (same with other names). PANONIAN  22:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

You said that the Middle age Chronicals are unreliable. Why should bee an older (9th century info) real? Your answer is a paradox. (This doesn't mean, that I dont think that slavs lived in this area before the hungarians)Pannonia 19:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 9th century data is based on archeological evidence, while 15th-16th century data is based on tax records that recorded only smaller part of population (and Serbs were well known during history that they avoided paying taxes, so if you do not find Serbs in tax records that does not mean that they did not lived in the area). PANONIAN  If you want peace and prosperity for your country then you are a patriot, but if your patriotism is bigger than the borders of your country then you are a serious threat to World peace. 21:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

You claim that we only know information about the etnics content (from the 15-16. century) from tax records???? You think that there are no archeological evidences from that age????Pannonia 21:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The archeological evidences from the 15th-16th century cannot establish clear difference between Slavic and "Hungarian" (read: "magyarized Slavic" settlements). On the contrary, there is clear evidence of continuity of life in these settlements before and after Hungarian conquest which means that exactly same population lived in them before and after Hungarian conquest and that population was certainly not Hungarian by origin. PANONIAN  22:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello PANONIAN! I think we should stop this discussion, becaus it's started to morf into a hate-discussion, and has no sence. I wish you the bests,Pannonia 08:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

 * You started it, so it is your decision when it will stop. PANONIAN  09:38, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Demographics
There is one big mistake in these new tables: they are too confusing because they do not list ethnic groups in the order of they size. In another words, tables only list numbers and percents of various ethnic groups in various time periods, but if somebody want to know which ethnic group was largest, which was second largest, which was third largest, etc, he would have a problem to find that. I already wrotte new article for Demographic history of Serbian Banat, but I think that current table for population of the whole Banat is also not the best possible solution. PANONIAN 18:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * For example, the concrete problem with current "The Whole Banat" table is that reader would gain the false information that in 1774 there were 100,000 Serbs and 2,400 Hungarians, when in fact there was 100,000 Serbs and Greeks and 2,400 Hungarians and Bulgarians (I am aware that you tried to solve this problem with a footnote, but solution is bad because nobody will ever read that footnote and therefore we would present false data to the readers). The second problem is that readers would have problem to see that in 1910 census Germans were second largest group because they are listed in the third place. Such table could work in the case if we have exact data for each ethnic group from each census and if sizes of such ethnic groups do not drastically change over time - but it is not such case. PANONIAN  19:04, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * In my opinion the tables are probably the best solution for presenting the data in a concise way. If one wants to know which ethnic group was the largest at a particular time, one can very easily find this information in the tables. I don't understand why you're saying that one would have some problems in finding this information. It's very fast and simple to do so.
 * The comment about 1774 is a bit forced, as the footnote cleary explains the situation.
 * The current form with long paragraphs listing the censuses data is just too complicated. It is a lot easier if all the information can be seen in one page, without the need to scroll down the page.
 * I'm not going to engage into a long debate about the tables, but I hope that you will also come to the conclusion that the tables really are a lot better. In any case, there is no good reason to eliminate them completely. Alexrap 12:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I do not intent to eliminate tables completelly - I believe that current version of the article where tables are partially used is not so bad solution (no matter that table about population of Romanian Banat is still not a best solution for it, but alternative to this would be that we writte completelly new article about demographics of Romanian Banat and I think that nobody of us have no will or free time to do that). Of course, regarding population of the whole Banat, there are still problems how to present diverse data (i.e. one census that list Serbs and Greeks and another one that list only Serbs). There is also a question which ethnic group should be listed second in that table (either Serbs who were second largest group in 1774 or Germans who were second largest in 1910). I am not 100% against of converting this text into tables, but in that case we should find some different solution for these tables, which would solve mentioned problems. PANONIAN  16:18, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

History Section a Joke
Honestly, this section needs to be improved, because it is like a black stain on the whole article. It just sounds unprofessional and bad (e.g. "Roman presence vanished..."). Not only is this wrong, since the Romans kept forts on both sides of the Danube, including at Severin, but the entire sentence sounds like it's out of a children's coloring book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.84.234 (talk • contribs)

Romanians
These is ridiculous. I am a Romanian, and i can say from my own experience that Romanians are disconsidered in Vojvodina and especially in Serbia. Banat is ancient Romanian land and in this article in the history of Banat Romanians are deleted. I don`t have a problem with any nation and i have grown up to tolerate every nation, especially in Vojvodina, but this is too much. Just because we are friends and don`t attack Serbian people with lies and propaganda, Serbs are changing history to their likings. Banat had a majority Romanian population and only recently Serbs are the majority in north Banat, in south there is still a significant Romanian minority that is also deleted here on Wikipedia in articles about Vojvodina, Banat, and especially Vrsac(Varset) and Bela Crkva (Biserica Alba). It was under Hungarian rule for a long time, but this don`t means that is Hungarian land, and Serbs migrated in Vojvodina on the request of Hungarians. I am sick of this lies and propaganda against Romanians and Serbs from all people in Vojvodina don`t have the right to this land, even Hungarians have more rights. Serbs came last in Vojvodina and now to delete the Romanians from their home land is outrageous. When Romanians lived in Banat Hungarians and Serbs were a tribe somewhere in central Asia so please, i am asking Serbs to stop this propaganda and lies about Romanians in Banat and Vojvodina. Don`t worry, if you tell the truth we won`t ask for out land back, i know you are paranoid about that, we lived a long time in Vojvodina together like this, and we will continue no matter what to live together in Vojvodina as a part of Serbia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iadrian yu (talk • contribs) 13:09, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What is a point of your post? Romanians were largest ethnic group in Banat and that is not disputed, but they were not largest ethnic group in modern Serbian Banat. If you want to write anything about history of Romanians in Banat you are welcome to do so, but I do not understand reason for such anti-Serb attitude and hate in your post. As for cities of Vrsac and Bela Crkva, these cities had mainly German population in 1910 and in 1921, so I do not see why you speak about these cities when you refer to Romanian-Serb relations. As for question whether any nation have right to any land, we live in the 21st century (if you did not noticed) and in this century any nation would have right only to land in which it form majority of population (in this century I mean, not in previous ones). As for question when Serbs came to Vojvodina, we know that Serbs and Slavs settled in the Balkans in the 6th and 7th century, but they did not fell from the sky, did they? - they had to come from somewhere, and Vojvodina is the place from which they moved to the Balkans. PANONIAN  10:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, you may say that Dacian ancestors of Romanians were in Banat before Slavic ancestors of the Serbs, but Dacians were almost destroyed by the Romans and other invaders like Goths, Huns, Sarmatians ect, conquered Banat, so in the time when Slavs settled in Banat this land was practically empty and even Romanian historians agree that romanized Dacian population was preserved in Transylvanian mountains, but not in Pannonian lowland. Finaly, you certainly cannot claim in the 21st century that any land belong to your nation only because your Dacians ancestors lived in it some 2000 years ago - according to this theory all white Americans should leave from United States and "return back" to Europe simply because Indians lived there before them, and furthermore, according to same theory, your own nation (and all other homo sapiens humans from Europe) should go back to Africa because another human species (homo erectus) lived here before them (it is likely that development of the science would be able to recreate live homo erectus according to data from their genes, so you would be in position to "give land back" to them, would you?). PANONIAN  10:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

1880 Census Data
According to a complete breakdown of Hungary's population in 1880, the combined population of the counties of Krasso Szoreny, Temes and Torontal broke down as follows:

 * 516,879 Romanians or 39.51%
 * 333,149 Germans or 25.46%
 * 243,212 Serbo-Croats or 18.59%
 * 111,884 Hungarians or 8.55%
 * 21,788 Slovaks or 1.67%
 * 81,425 Others or 6.22%
 * 1,308,337 Total

 * 748,180 Greek Orthodox or 57.19%
 * 466,073 Roman Catholics or 35.62%
 * 31,305 Greek Catholics or 2.39%
 * 29,868 Lutherans/Evangelicals or 2.28%
 * 17,545 Jews or 1.34%
 * 14,868 Calvinists/Reformed or 1.14%
 * 498 Others or 0.04%
 * 1,308,337 Total Prussia1231 (talk) 03:49, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Banat region's name from first half of 5-th century AD?
In the talk section of english wikipedia article abouth the "Ban" title http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ban_(title) I've posted o probable source regarding the possibility of region's "Banat" name existence since the 5-th century AD. Is there any confirmation about the accuracy of it, please? Thank you.Bigshotnews 21:34, 12 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigshotnews (talk • contribs)

New text without source
I ask User:Fakirbakir to provide a source for the text added yesterday. Hahun (talk) 08:28, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Your editing is outrageous. Do you know the "citation needed" tag? You know well, that the region was called "Temeskoz" in medieval times. Its name "Banat" is NOT medieval. So, why do you want to hide facts? Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I have no idea if the region was called "Temeskoz" in medieval times. "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it" (Verifiability).
 * By adding the Citation needed tag, editors make a request for an inline citation to support the tagged statement. It is unnatural to challenge your own text (it is like sending a letter to yourself). Hahun (talk) 11:29, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You have no idea? Then, please stop editing Wikipedia. Fakirbakir (talk) 11:33, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That is hilarious. Are you asking me to stop editing Wikipedia because I don't know about your Temeskoz? You are the one who should leave Wikipedia if you are not able to respect Civility rule. Hahun (talk) 11:47, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You boldly remove contents without knowing if they are right or not. You said you had no idea about the topic. Fakirbakir (talk) 12:06, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I removed it because you added something, and then asked others for a source. If you had added the source in the first place, I would not have had any reason to delete it. Hahun (talk) 12:08, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I wanted to show you the "right way" + needed some time to find my sources. That's why I first used the "CN" tags. Fakirbakir (talk) 12:13, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You could have used your Sandbox for incomplete drafts, what you've done is extremely misleading.
 * By the way, the phrase is still unclear. The only documents that mentioned Temeskoz are from 1374? Or that is the year when it was mentioned for the first time? Hahun (talk) 12:17, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * First mentioned in 1374. Fakirbakir (talk) 12:37, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

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Proposed flag of Banat
User:PetrusdictusA keeps adding an image he captioned as "proposed flag of Banat". Out of concern about WP:OR, could you please tell us who proposed this flag, under which authority and when? Thanks, Mentatus (talk) 15:50, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * User:PetrusdictusA, you have reinserted that image, so I reiterate Mentatus' question. I will remove it in the meantime, please only add it if you can cite a WP:RS with the design.- Andrei (talk) 12:08, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Andrei Stroe this is the most common accepted flag of our region, the recent poll taken on facebook after one week concluded in 60% approval rate for it. That's why a petition to the Romanian Government was made. And by the way, it says "unofficial", so the information is correct. Also you have on the Transylvania page a flag which isn't official, and which isn't Transylvania's, but presented as so. Also you have on a coat of arms not of the Banat, but only of the Banathian Swabians.User:PetrusdictusA(talk) 16:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC+1)
 * Read what you're writing. You're basing your assertion on a... Facebook poll, which can hardly be further from a WP:RS. We can't just dump anything with which just any person or group comes up with into any page just by labelling it "unofficial" and washing our hands. We need to publish relevant stuff. WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is not an argument for anything.
 * We don't have a "Portal Banat" (you linked it as a template, but even if you try to link it otherwise, it's still a red link).- Andrei (talk) 11:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Andrei Stroe Yes you do have a Portal Banat in Romanian. Also yes the fact that you allow the self proclaimed"Transylvanian Flag" is a sign of how biased you are in allowing crap, but not allowing a stmbol that has a petition, thousands of followers and with wich many Banathians do identify.User:PetrusdictusA(talk) 15:29, 4 April 2018 (UTC+1)
 * Feel free to raise the issues about any ro.wp portal on ro.wp. Here we're talking about the content of the article Banat on en.wp. Diverting the discussion to other flags that may or may not be appropriate in the pages where they are used, or to portals on other editions of Wikipedia says nothing about the merits of the issue at hand. If you're trying to use these edits to make a point about those, then please don't. Otherwise, try to focus on this article and the image that you keep adding, whose relevance is quite clearly lacking: if the main thing that can be said about it is that there is a petition with followers to support it, then it's clearly just noise in the crowd.- Andrei (talk) 15:46, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:33, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Proposed flag
Dear,

IP, please present a source for your addition. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 00:58, 11 February 2020 (UTC))

The Serbian Banat since the First World War section has duplicate paragraphs
The Serbian Banat since the First World War section's second and third paragraphs duplicate each other, although not completely - they retell the story of the same period with different words and emphases.--Adûnâi (talk) 02:11, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I fully support your proposal to edit that paragraph.  Sadkσ  (talk is cheap)  12:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC))

An awkward part in the Hungarian administration section
''In the eastern part of the Pannonian basin among Christians, the Byzantine rite became more influential after Ahtum's conversion to Christianity. This was halted with the establishment of the Kingdom of Hungary. István I reasserted dominance over the last local leader, Ahtum (Ajtony in other sources).'' It appears as if the second mention of Ahtum once was the first - it has the name hypertexted, and there is the parentheses part. Can this be corrected? Also, "In the eastern part of the Pannonian basin among Christians" sounds a bit wrong.--Adûnâi (talk) 20:11, 16 July 2020 (UTC) "In this area Serbs have been from medieval times with the largest numbers of inhabitants in 18th century" > What is this supposed to mean? Obviously, the population was lower in the 18th century. I doubt they had a higher population share either. Did you mean the highest numbers of immigrants? Still, it makes little sense.--Adûnâi (talk) 20:19, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I solved the first issue hopefully. Regarding the second one, not I was adding that material to the article, so I could as well just guess what the original contributor meant.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:34, 16 July 2020 (UTC))

Correction needed
When You google Banat, Google will guide You to this article, which means that this article should refer to geographical term of Banat, and therefore represent it completely. Due to that, an update of number of inhabitants in short description is needed - now 979119 shows up, completely ignoring cca. 700.000 inhabitants of Serbian part of Banat, and cca 50000 of Hungarian part,and if I may say, also ignores part of Romanian Banat in Arad county. On the other hand, the surface covers whole Banat (27104 km2). What is the reason for keeping incorrect data in short description? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.255.189.177 (talk) 08:34, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * You can fix it yourself but sources are needed for this. Super   Ψ   Dro  11:21, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Nevermind actually, we have sources for the census of both Serbia and Romania in the body section. Super   Ψ   Dro  11:25, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Banat