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Ludgate

Ludgate was the westernmost gate in London Wall. Of Roman origin, it was rebuilt several times and finally demolished in 1760. The name survives in Ludgate Hill, an eastward continuation of Fleet Street, Ludgate Circus and Ludgate Square.

Etymology
According to legend, recorded by the Norman-Welsh cleric Geoffrey of Monmouth, Ludgate was named after the ancient British king Lud. Lud was said to be the brother of King Cassivelaunus but some folklorists think he is a manifestation of the god Nodens. There are other suggestions for the origins of the name, although none has been universally accepted. Later writers said it was derived from "flood gate" or "Fleet gate", from "ludgeat", meaning "back gate" or "postern", or from the Old English term "hlid-geat"    a common Old English compound meaning "postern" or "swing gate".

History
Ludgate is believed to have been one of four original gates in the Roman London Wall, work on which started in 190 AD.

Anti-royalist forces rebuilt the gate during the First Barons' War (1215–17) using materials recovered from the destroyed houses of Jews. The gate was rebuilt about 1450 by a man called Foster who at one time was lodged in the debtor's prison over the gate. He eventually became Sir Stephen Foster, Lord Mayor of London. His widow, Agnes, renovated and extended Ludgate and the debtor's prison; the practice of making the debtors pay for their own food and lodging was also abolished. Her gift was commemorated by a brass wall plaque, which read:

Devout souls that pass this way,

For Stephen Foster, late mayor, heartily pray;

And Dame Agnes, his spouse, to God consecrate,

That of pity this house made, for Londoners in Ludgate;

So that for lodging and water prisoners here nought pay,

As their keepers shall answer at dreadful doomsday!

In February 1554, Ludgate was the final setting of Wyatt's rebellion, when Sir Thomas Wyatt the Younger arrived at the gate with part of his army numbering three or four hundred men. The gate was defended by Lord William Howard with the local militia, who refused entry to the rebels, causing them to retreat and later surrender.

Ludgate was rebuilt in 1586 to the design of William Kerwin; niches in the facade were furnished with statues of Queen Elizabeth I and King Lud with his two sons; these statues replaced medieval ones that had been defaced by Protestant iconoclasts during the reign of King Edward VI. The gateway was finally demolished in 1760 at the request of the local citizens. It was still in use as a debtor's prison, so the inmates were transferred to the City workhouse in Bishopsgate. The statues from the facade were preserved at the Church of St Dunstan-in-the-West in Fleet Street. When the church was rebuilt in 1831, they were sold and taken to Hertford Villa in Regent's Park, but were returned to the church in 1935. Elizabeth's statue now stands in a niche over the vestry door, while the others are inside the porch.

In literature

 * Ludd's Gate is mentioned in Bernard Cornwell's novel Sword Song, set during the reign of Alfred the Great.
 * Ludgate is mentioned in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, written around 1136. According to the pseudohistorical work the name comes from the Welsh King King Lud, who he claims also gave his name to London.
 * Ludgate is mentioned in Maria McCann's novel As Meat Loves Salt, set during the English Civil War.
 * Ludgate appears in Walter de la Mare's poem "Up and Down", from Collected Poems 1901–1918, Vol. II: Songs of Childhood, Peacock Pie, 1920.
 * Ludgate appears in part III of Burnt Norton, the first of T. S. Eliot's Four Quartets. It is the last named of the seven "gloomy hills of London".

title: Ludgate


text:
Talk:West Edmonton Mall

Statement doesn't make sense
"The closure in the late 1990s of Canadian Tire left a vacancy that sat unfilled for nearly a decade until it was converted into a "Chinatown"-themed area in 2002, which includes an Asian grocery store, T & T Supermarket."

How can it be nearly a decade between the late 1990's and 2002?

- A decade is 10 years.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.214.212 (talk) 15:54, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

I give up trying to maintain accuracy in this lame article
Whats the point? some moron is always going to read 1/8 of the article and replace fact with something they read in a brochure 15 years ago, and then get pissed when I call him out so will post pictures of his rectum. So annoying. Go ahead, continue to sign the praises of the place. I give up. Hey, at least the ugliness and crappiness and utter banality of the article reflects what is going on at this mall.

Mall of Arabia

 * If someone really thinks that the Mall of Arabia will become the largest mall in the world, it should probably have an article. Does anyone know if it has gotten past the planning stage? If we don't get a reply in a reasonable amount of time, I'll remove the reference as unverifiable. I only have the following two articles on it:
 * http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/31239.html
 * http://www.eqarat.com/english/newsletter/76/2.htm
 * - Halthecomputer 23:44, Nov 27, 2003 (UTC)

See: Dubai Land WhisperToMe 08:25, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

See also Dubai Mall in Dubai, UAE. When completed, it will cover a total area of 12 million ft² --Jibran1 23:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

800 Store claim
There are NOT 800 stores at the mall, the actual number is around 600. Mall promotional material will never stray from this claim. Factually it is incorrect, so please, lets not regurgitate mall propaganda here. 600 stores it is.
 * Sorry! 800 is the only official number we have until you can provide another source. Wikipedia policy. No more changes without a reference. --Tyson2k 05:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Sources provided stating 600 stores. One directly from the mall itself, in a non-promotional security flyer.. Another, an engery conservation study . Changed to 600 stores.

The Dubai Mall claims to have a total of more than 1000 stores, when completed. --Jibran1 23:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Beijing
According to a number of media sources (the most recent being, Beijing has a larger mall than Edmonton now. -- Kaszeta 13:09, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Images
Surely there must be fair use or public domain images of the mall around? With just the logos the article looks awfully dull. 23skidoo 20:03, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The best option might be to ask an Edmonton resident to get some photos. - SimonP 20:12, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Some images have been added; but it was just a big too much so I removed them; perhaps select one or two to use. Peyna 20:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I Have Some Better PIctures but i have no clue how to embeed them.... Plz help. --65.92.151.10 01:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

New Images
the concern raised for the new images by the group for the performance issues, I Guess; images gives a good look and feel of the mall, as we know that a picture speak thousand words... is not a bad idea. --Ajayverma 17:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Some new images have been repeatedly added to the article, so instead of reverting until my fingers fall off, I'm opening this for discussion.

The new pictures do not add any content to the article. They only make it cluttered and possibly cause load time problems for users with slower connections. I am not opposed to adding a couple pictures along the side or replacing some of those already there with some of these new pictures. I am opposeed to having a gallery of photos at the bottom of the article. Peyna 15:18, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. If a gallery is desirable, set one up on Commons. - SimonP 15:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe that these picture add plenty to the page. How about text links to the pictures instead of thumbnails. - Matteso 21:39, 4 December 2005
 * Thumbnails are links. No need to be so conservative with the server.--[[Image:Ewok_Slayer.png|140px|Ewok Slayer]] --(U | T | C) 04:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

---

Mall's cursed history
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the history of deaths at WEM. Besides the Fantasyland rollercoaster disaster, there was the man found dead in the Santa Maria pool after a night of drinking, the 3-4 men who died during construction, and the Boxing Day murder of a Vietnamese gang member by hatchet while thousands of customers watched.

Hey, do you have a link to all the stories you mentioned? I've been trying to find them, but I can't look on Google forever....Ultima22 15:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's A New Death KingRaven (>$.$)> (talk) 06:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Trivia re submarines
What happened to 'em? I can't imagine them just stopping a popular tourist ride like that. My money's on Health and Safety. I guess they could've sold 'em to the Canadian Navy! Heh. Admittedly I've not been for 8 years, so I'm a bit behind the times. How come they've gone now?
 * I think they lost them simply because they were not worth the trouble. It is pretty specific technology for a mall, and I don't think they had enough ridership to make them worthwhile.--SwingLowSweetDeej 02:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I had ridden the Submarines in November of '01 so the 98 date could be worng, unless thats when the Canadian Navy bought more of their own. EnsRedShirt 09:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That's when I got the date from, the Canadian Navy article, having started the 'trivia' section and written it myself. I didn't know about the sub ride closing then.

Don't forget, the subs had tendency to derail every other month or so. Maybe the Canadian Navy donated them? Heh. Anyway, I do think they took them out because of safety, but they did have some really good stuff down there, which I'm gonna miss. --Ultima22 19:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm posting from an internet cafe in the mall - the submarines are still in the water place, on the rails, just unmoving and with the boarding / disembarking platform removed. So I guess the potential is there for them to return at some point [or, indeed, for the submarines to be sold to the Canadian Navy...]

The subs where bought from the navy, so they won't sell them back to them. Doesn't make much sense really. The mall plans to return to the subs at a later date, when they can be more reliable. Or so I hear my former bosses and co-workers at Admissions. If not, they'll just end up like that expensive Ming vase in the lagoon, decorations. --Calamusdraco 06:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Where is the source or reference to it having more sub's than the Canadian Navy before 1998? Canking 14:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
An ip addy added thest two factoids:
 * The mall apparently has the largest drug paraphernelia shop ever. Pipes, bongs, rolling papers, blunt wraps and such are available at plenty in the mall.
 * Also, Cameron Diaz was found in the bathroom of the mall one night in October 2004.

I didn't see any evidence of verification on either of em so I removed them. For the first one, if its verifiable I don't see a problem with it, but I don't think it is. As for the second one.. Actress need a place to shop too, and being "found" in a bathroom without any reason why it is any diffrent then anyone else using the bathroom is not in its self notable. EnsRedShirt 06:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

 * There's actually two bong shops at WEM. Neither are particularly large though.  64.56.145.130 16:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Mall Rats
I remember reading in a 1996 edition of the Edmonton Journal, talking about how bad the mall rats were during those days. Some of them carried weapons, and even lived inside the mall itself. (and not the hotel or inn either.) There were two gangs, one that thrived in the food court by the Red's, and the other in the "Gourmet" food court down by Galaxyland. Both had their different styles, and when they clashed, they clashed HARD.-Ultima22     P.s.    i luv pink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :?b

Animals
A history of the animal displays at the mall would be nice. They had dolphins for the longest time until they died from various causes, one being the ingestion of coins thrown into the pool by spectators. Now they've got their flamingos and sea lions. A couple weeks ago I was walking along the upper level and ran into a couple penguins out for a walk/waddle with staff from the Sea Life Caverns. The protests against the dolphins also needs a mention because public perception has changed drastically over the years. Personally I saw many of these displays a few years ago where protesters would display large banners and hand out information to tourists just before a dolphin show. It couldn't have been good for business.

Guinness World Record
Why not mention to the Guinness record? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LittleTree (talk • contribs)
 * It seems to conflict with this mall size comparison. Carson 23:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The Guinness website hasn't changed in years. It is clearly very out of date. All of the malls that are larger than WEM are fairly new, and so this is not a suprise. And no, I do not think out-of-date information is worth mentioning. --Arch26 06:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops. I thought the article mentioned that it used to be the world largest for 20 years. BUT I was wrong. The sentence was in the other page. I must have been confused by reading several articles at a time. Carson, the numbers in the Guinness book seems okay comparing to those in the WDM home page. I wonder what the source of the numbers in that comparison. Arch26, So, you don't think it is worth mentioning even as a historical fact? Fine by me. There is no need to mention the record while the article doesn't say it used to be the world largest. --LittleTree 01:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I really don't have any problem with it being mentioned as historical fact. Something like: "West Edmonton Mall was the largest indoor shopping centre in the world until 20##." What's wrong with that? --Arch26 01:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

What's the deal with this trivia?
"The TV show 6teen takes place in a fictional version of the West Edmonton Mall." So...it takes place in West Edmonton Mall except...it doesn't really take place in West Edmonton Mall? You can have a fictional show set in a real life setting, but it is either set in West Ed or it isn't. Maybe a fictional mall BASED on West Ed would be more acceptable. I'm not familiar with the show, so I'm not touching that. --C civiero 19:49, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the show and the mall depicted looks nothing like WestEd (I live in Edmonton, ten blocks from the mall). I vote this piece of trivia be scrapped unless it can be cited. RE-Razor 16:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Sea Lions
The assertion that one Sea Lion died on the way to WEM and thus there are only two is incorrect. One may have died, I don't know, but there are, and always have been, three sea lions stationed at WEM.

Only two of them star in a show at a time, I think the third (Clara) is a backup.

Alberta's Number One Tourist Attraction???
Wouldn't that be the Calgary Stampede? Sure, the mall gets more 'visitors' each year, but I think it's misleading (and depressing) to call it the 'number one tourist attaction.' Comments?
 * What about Banff? Either this statement is very vague, or it's very wrong. There is NO WAY that West Ed gets more visitors than Banff OR the Calgary Stampede. And I agree... it would be depressing if it were true. Yay! Our number one tourist trap is responsible for the destruction of the urban fabric of the city of Edmonton and is the epitome of excess, suburbanization and runaway consumerism! Please God... I hope not. --Arch26 07:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

WEM does get more visitors than Banff or the Stampede. BUT - its a mall first and foremost. It is assuming that one visitor from Japan who flies in for a week and spends $500/night in banff on hotel and another $1000 a day on food and shopping - is the same as - a 14 year old girl who pops in the door for 5 minutes to buy a $.50 hair clip while waiting for her bus. Not apples to apples, here people. If you want to talk mall visitor stats, go do some research. You will learn that Chinook Centre also has more visitors than Banff or the Stampede. You will also learn that your 22 million visitors is acutally nothing to brag about, but rather be embarrassed about - compared to the MORE THAN 50 million shoppers who visit the Toronto Eaton Centre annually. And there are no flamingos or rollercoasters there.
 * Here here! By referring to WEM as Alberta's top attraction using numbers only (and not common sense), you are probably inadvertantly placing some of Edmonton's famous strip malls such as oh, say, South Edmonton Common in a list of "Alberta's Top 10 Most Visited Attractions"!!! There's something to brag about. Put that on a tourism brochure. "Come to Edmonton. Go to IKEA. YAY!!!" This is all heresay of course. I haven't looked up any numbers... BUT, I know how misleading stats can be and the above unsigned commentator seems to make a valid point. --Arch26 06:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Kingsway Garden Mall is the busiest mall in Edmonton. Simply because of it's location. 02:00 April 2, 2007

All right people, start educating yourselves. I've heard many times that west ed is the #1 tourist attraction. The mall recieves 60 000 daily and in a year that would be? Calgary stampede gets 1 million in 10 days.--TelusFielder
 * You missed the whole point of what they were saying....sure maybe the mall does get that many people a day. I doubt that it does get that many but assuming you are correct, not all of them are tourists. Edmonton itself does not get 60,000 tourists a day. Heck I doubt there are many places in the world that get that many tourists a day. --Djsasso 19:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Two Three questionable pieces of information
There are two questionable pieces of information that need to be confirmed: 1. The statement it has the largest parking lot in North America. I thought Disneyland/California Adventure in Anaheim now holds this distinction. 2. I'm pretty certain it was Woodwyn, a subsidiary of Woodward's, that sat vacant before becoming the Chinatown section, not Canadian Tire. I don't recall there ever being a Canadian Tire store in WEM. 23skidoo 05:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I can't comment on (1), but as for (2), Canadian Tire was where the Chinese thing is now -- I remember it clearly, though not clearly enough to give you the years it was there. It closed when the Canadian Tire at 99 Ave and 178 St opened. Indefatigable 20:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I removed the statement that it is the world's largest. The mall's own web site says it is the largest, according to Guiness, but I can not find supporting evidence on the Guiness Web site.  What we do know is that the parking lot surorunding the mall is an assembly of several parking garages and flat parking lots that collectively offer 20,000 parking spaces.  By the same token, the Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport has 28,000 parking spaces in the central terminal area.  I'm sure that West Edmonton is the largest free parking lot, but I can not say that for certain.  It is certainly a cool honor to have, and I hope to find out who it belongs to. --Meadowbrook 16:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

 * As far as I know, there are more American Eagle Outfitters in Edmonton than just inside WEM. I lived in Edmonton, and I worked beside an American Eagle Outfitters store in Kingsway Garden Mall. I also remember seeing one in Southgate Mall. Can you confirm or remove the exclusiveness of this store? ITS PRETTY SWEET!!!!! i luv bikinis!joecdn 02:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Food Courts
Changed image description of food courts from "multiple" to "two". RE-Razor 16:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is open to all viewers with Internet Explorer access, so this page may or may not be accurate due to the character of these people. Feel free to change. --12.207.207.146 (talk) 05:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)Maddie
 * IMPORTANT TO ALL WIKIPEDIA VIEWERS!

Ice Palace question
From the article: "Ice Palace is a scaled down version of a National Hockey League (NHL) regulation sized ice rink..."

How is it scaled down if it's regulation sized? --Emerae (talk) 05:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

No longer third largest?
Can someone double-check the facts on this comment in the lead? According to List of tallest buildings and structures in the world it's the sixth largest mall. 68.146.41.232 (talk) 02:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you ment List of largest buildings in the world. However the source that article uses is the same as the one this article uses. Based on that WEM is now the 4th largest and I fixed it to reflect that. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

How long?
(that's what she said) ... No really though, how long was the West Edmonton Mall the largest mall in the world? The article states "It was the world's largest mall for a 27-year period from 1981 until 2008", but the Golden Resources Mall in China claims to have been the world's largest mall from 2004 to 2005.

Assessment
For WP Canada, I have rated the article "B", partly because I can't give an "A" but also because of the trivia section and the uncited material it contains.  PK T  18:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

T&T Asian Supermarket is in the old Canadian Tire space, not Ikea.
Edmonton Events Centre and Ed's Rec Room occupy the space vacated by Ikea, which moved to Whitemud, then South Edmonton Common. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.238.203 (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Building cost and current value.
Article says "cost C$1.2 billion to build" and "The mall is currently valued at C$926 million." This may mislead some people into thinking the mall has lost value, but the currency has changed relative to other countries would this change the numbers at all? I.E. maybe in 1980 1USD was equal to 1.3C but now its closer to 1:1 ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.210.91 (talk) 01:18, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right to point out the numbers don't make sense, I doubt it has lost value, the cost to build appears to be unreferenced. But both values are in Canadian dollars, so the exchange rate to other countries shouldn't have any affect on the numbers. 117Avenue (talk) 03:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Was it the world's largest mall in 1981?
The statement that it was the largest mall in the world upon opening in 1981 is, I believe, incorrect. Phase I consisted of the "normal mall" (for lack of a better term) with the 3 department stores, plus the amusement park. It was a big mall at that time, but I can't see it being the world's largest at that point. I don't believe it attained "world's largest" status until Phase III opened in 1985. Can someone check this? 68.146.71.145 (talk) 12:50, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Really inaccurate article
This article reads like it was put together by a members of the mall's marketing team, using promotional materials from 15 years ago. Most of the stats are out of date or completely inaccurate. "By 2014, the mall's "face lift" had been completed." is a particularly incorrect statement, as it's near the end of 2016 and the renovations are still ongoing. "Future expansions are underway to more than double the total floor space" also needs citing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.167.163 (talk) 05:22, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Size Matters
On the list of Largest Nalls in the World it is listed at tied for 21st, I do believe. In this article it says 10th largest in the world. Well. . . which is it? 21st or 10th? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.75.55.239 (talk) 00:03, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Loan controversy
In the late 1990s and early 2000s there was a controversy, involving multiple lawsuits, over a loan guarantee by the Alberta Treasury Branch made to the mall. The claim was that the loan guarantee was not justified on banking principles and was made due to political pressure and cronyism. Some discussion of this belongs in the section on controversies.Bill (talk) 06:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction
The "It is currently the second largest shopping mall in North America behind the Mall of America and was the world's largest mall until 2004." in a lead contradicts the source which:

 * Lists Mall of America, 2.8-million (260,000), 4.2-million (390,000) 520 as a "Largest shopping mall in the United States (by total area)";

 * Lists West Edmonton Mall, 3.8-million (350,000), 5.3-million (490,000) 800 as a "Largest shopping mall in North America; includes indoor wave pool, amusement areas, hotel, restaurants; 20,000 parking spaces."

This needs to be fixed, because by source, Mall of America is actually behind West Edmonton Mall. --Sleeps-Darkly (talk) 23:36, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:West Edmonton Mall


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Ludgate Hill

Ludgate Hill is a street and surrounding area, on a small hill in the City of London, England. The street passes through the former site of Ludgate, a city gate that was demolished – along with a gaol attached to it – in 1760.

The area includes St Paul's Cathedral. The modern cathedral, it has been claimed, was built on a site that – during the Roman British era of the early first millennium – was occupied by a major Roman temple, dedicated to the goddess Diana.

Ludgate Hill itself is traditionally regarded as one of a trio of hills in Central London, the others being Tower Hill and Cornhill. The highest point is just north of St Paul's, at 17.6 m above sea level.

The modern street named Ludgate Hill, which was previously a much narrower thoroughfare named Ludgate Street, runs between St Paul's Churchyard and Ludgate Circus (built in 1864), at which point it becomes Fleet Street.

Description
Many small alleys on Ludgate Hill were swept away in the mid 1860s to build Ludgate Hill railway station between Water Lane and New Bridge Street, a station of the London, Chatham and Dover Railway. It was closed to passengers in 1929 and the railway bridge and viaduct between Holborn Viaduct and Blackfriars stations was demolished in 1990 to enable the construction of the City Thameslink railway station in a tunnel. This also involved the regrading of the slope of Ludgate Hill at the junction.

There is a blue plaque near the bottom of the hill with these words: "In a house near this site was published in 1702 The Daily Courant first London daily newspaper".

About halfway up Ludgate Hill is the church of St Martin, Ludgate, once physically joined to the Ludgate.

Paternoster Square, home of the London Stock Exchange since 2004, is on the hill, immediately to the north of St Paul's Cathedral.

Etymology
Ludgate is generally accepted to derive from the Old English term "hlid-geat"    from "hlid" ("lid, cover, opening, gate") and "geat" or "gæt" ("gate, opening, passage") and was a common Old English compound meaning "postern" or "swing gate"    and survives in various place names across England as well as in surnames.

Ludgate is mentioned in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, written around 1136. According to the pseudohistorical work the name comes from the mythic Welsh king Lud son of Heli whom he claims also gave his name to London. The Cronycullys of Englonde tell us of an early king of Britain: "he lete make a fayre gate and called hit Lud Gate after his name" in the year 66 BC, but it is more likely that the Romans were the first to build it, and that it is simply named after him. One proposed derivation, entirely prosaic, is that the name is a variation on "Fleodgaet", or "Fleet-gate".

Literary associations
At the bottom of Ludgate Hill, on the north side, is Limeburner Lane. This may sound like a quaint survival from medieval times, but it was actually constructed in the 1990s, where Seacoal Lane used to be. This was the location of the Bell Savage Inn, first mentioned in 1452 where plays were performed. According to surveyor John Stow the name was derived from Isabella Savage, but Addison claimed it was "La belle Sauvage", a woman in the wilderness. The clown Richard Tarlton used to perform here. It is mentioned in Thomas Hughes' Tom Brown's Schooldays and Charles Dickens' The Pickwick Papers. In October 1684, a "Rynoceros lately brought from the East Indies" was put on show there. The inn was demolished in 1873. In 1851, part of it was rented out to John Cassell (1817–1865), a notable publisher. At this time it was still called La Belle Sauvage Yard and the firm of Cassell used "la Belle Sauvage" in some of their imprints.

The prison is mentioned in Daniel Defoe's Roxana: The Fortunate Mistress.

From 1731, the "London Coffee House" was next to St Martin's, Ludgate, at 24–26 Ludgate Hill. It was frequented by Joseph Priestley and Benjamin Franklin. When the juries at the Old Bailey failed to reach a verdict, they were housed here overnight. In 1806, a Roman hexagonal altar dedicated to Claudia Martina by her husband, now in the Guildhall, was found here together with a statue of Hercules. The London Coffee House was closed in 1867, and is now occupied by a pub called "Ye Olde London".

Edmund Spenser's The Shepheardes Calender was printed by Hugh Singleton at the sign of the "Gylden tunne" in Creed Lane in 1579. John Evelyn lived in the Hawk and Pheasant on Ludgate Hill in 1658–59.

The Blackfriars, or Dominicans, first came to London in 1221. In 1278, they moved from Holborn to an area south of Ludgate, where they built a friary. By 1320, they had demolished the Roman wall to build a new wall for the friary. This was demolished at the Reformation, but the name persisted – in 1596 James Burbage, the manager of Shakespeare's acting company, The Lord Chamberlain's Men, acquired the lease to a part of the property that was already being used as a theatre. His intention appears to have been to have the Lord Chamberlain's Men act here. However, local opposition meant that the more fashionable children's acting companies who were already performing here continued to act here for some years instead. It wasn't until 1609 that Shakespeare's company of actors (by then called The King's Men) was able to act at the Blackfriars Theatre. In 1613, Shakespeare bought the Blackfriars gate-house.

Pageantmaster Court is almost opposite St. Martin's. The name is not medieval but dates from 1993. However, to the west is King's Arms Court, which existed until recently. Grinling Gibbons lived there. According to Stow, the gate acquired statues in 1260. In the reign of Edward VI the heads were "smitten off" and a few years later "Queen Mary did set new heads upon their old bodies again".

William Hone, journalist and publisher had an office near Ludgate Hill and the Old Bailey during the mid 1800s.

Notable residents

 * Samuel Birch (military officer)
 * William Harvey (1578–1657) – discovered the circulation of the blood, 1628. From 1604 to 1639 Harvey held a residence in the precincts of St Martin's Church, Ludgate.

title: Ludgate Hill


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Christine Jorgensen

Christine Jorgensen (May 30, 1926 – May 3, 1989), born George William Jorgensen Jr., was an American actress, singer, recording artist, and transgender activist. A trans woman, she was the first person to become widely known in the United States for having sex reassignment surgery.

In 1945, Jorgensen was drafted into the U.S. Army during World War II. After she served as a military clerical worker, Jorgensen attended several schools, worked, and pursued a photography career. During this time, she learned about sex reassignment surgery and traveled to Europe, where in Copenhagen, Denmark, she obtained special permission to undergo a series of operations beginning in 1952.

Upon her return to the United States in the early 1950s, her transition was the subject of a New York Daily News front-page story. She became an instant celebrity, known for her directness and polished wit, and used the platform to advocate for transgender people.

Her 1967 autobiography Christine Jorgensen: A Personal Autobiography sold almost 450,000 copies. Throughout her career, she gave lectures at colleges at university on the topics of transsexuality, though she would later disassociate with the term "transsexual" and prefer the term transgender.

Early life
Jorgensen was the second child of carpenter and contractor George William Jorgensen and his wife, Florence Davis Hansen. She was named George William, after her father, when she was born. She was raised in the Belmont neighborhood of the Bronx, New York City, and baptized a Lutheran. She described herself as a "frail, blond, introverted little boy who ran from fistfights and rough-and-tumble games".

Jorgensen graduated from Christopher Columbus High School in 1945 and was soon drafted into the U.S. Army at 19. After being discharged from the Army, she attended Mohawk Valley Community College in Utica, New York; the Progressive School of Photography in New Haven, Connecticut; and the Manhattan Medical and Dental Assistant School in New York City. She also worked briefly for Pathé News.

Gender transition
Returning to New York after military service, and increasingly concerned over, as one obituary later called it, a "lack of male physical development", Jorgensen heard about sex reassignment surgery. She began taking estrogen in the form of ethinylestradiol. She started researching the surgery with the help of Joseph Angelo, the husband of a classmate at the Manhattan Medical and Dental Assistant School. Jorgensen intended to go to Sweden, where the only doctors worldwide who performed the surgery were located. During a stopover in Copenhagen to visit relatives, she met Christian Hamburger, a Danish endocrinologist and specialist in rehabilitative hormonal therapy. Jorgensen stayed in Denmark and underwent hormone replacement therapy under Hamburger's direction. She chose the name Christine in honor of Hamburger.

Doctor Hamburger explained the gender hormone procedure, "The first sign was an increase in size of the mammary glands and then hair began to grow where the patient had a bald patch on the temple. Finally the whole body changed from a male to a female shape". More than a year after beginning hormone therapy, Jorgensen received her first surgery. However, she never publicly explained her new anatomy or the surgery outcome but said, "Everyone is both sexes in varying degrees. I am more of a woman than a man… Of course I can never have children but this does not mean that I cannot have natural sexual intercourse – I am very much in the position right now of a woman who has a hysterectomy," in 1958.

Her parents were from Denmark, so her trip for reassignment surgery was easy to disguise as a trip to visit family. She did not relay her plan for procedures on the trip to anyone due to her concern that she would not be supported.

She obtained special permission from the Danish Minister of Justice to undergo a series of operations in Denmark. On September 24, 1951, surgeons at Gentofte Hospital in Copenhagen performed an orchiectomy on Jorgensen. In a letter to friends on October 8, 1951, she referred to how the surgery affected her:

"As you can see by the enclosed photos, taken just before the operation, I have changed a great deal. But it is the other changes that are so much more important. Remember the shy, miserable person who left America? Well, that person is no more and, as you can see, I'm in marvelous spirits."

In November 1952, doctors at Copenhagen University Hospital performed a penectomy. In Jorgensen's words, "My second operation, as the previous one, was not such a major work of surgery as it may imply."

She returned to the United States and eventually obtained a vaginoplasty when the procedure became available. The vaginoplasty was performed under the direction of Dr. Angelo, with Harry Benjamin as a medical adviser. Later, in the preface of Jorgensen's autobiography, Harry Benjamin gave her credit for the advancement of his studies. He wrote, "Indeed Christine, without you, probably none of this would have happened; the grant, my publications, lectures, etc."

In a 1980s Hour Magazine interview with Gary Collins, Jorgensen described her family's acceptance:"My family were very understanding. They had a choice; I gave them only one choice. Either they were to accept me or there was a break. My family did not want to lose me, and I was very close with [my mother and father] until they died."

Publicity
Jorgensen was publicly outed when her letter to her parents in New York leaked to the press. She had planned to keep her transition a secret but she was forcefully outed by the New York Daily News. Her letter stated, "Nature made a mistake which I have had corrected, and now I am your daughter."

The New York Daily News ran a front-page story on December 1, 1952, under the headline "Ex-GI Becomes Blonde Beauty", announcing (incorrectly) that Jorgensen had become the recipient of the first "sex change." In reality, German doctors had performed this type of surgery in the late 1920s and early 1930s; Dorchen Richter and Danish artist Lili Elbe, both patients of Magnus Hirschfeld at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft in Berlin, were known recipients of such operations.

After her surgeries, Jorgensen originally stated that she wanted a quiet life of her design. However, upon returning to the United States, she could only earn a living by making public appearances. Jorgensen was an instant celebrity when she returned to New York in February 1953. A large crowd of journalists met her as she came off her flight, and despite the Danish royal family being on the same flight, the audience largely ignored them in favor of Jorgensen. Soon after her arrival, she launched a successful nightclub act and appeared on television, radio, and theatrical productions. The first five-part authorized account of her story was written by herself in a February 1953 issue of The American Weekly, titled "The Story of My Life." In 1967, she published her autobiography, Christine Jorgensen: A Personal Autobiography, which sold almost 450,000 copies.

In the wake of her transition, part of the media coverage debated her original gender identity, many claiming that she was never fully male, but rather intersex. At the time, a popular theory was that she was a "pseudohermaphrodite" with the internal anatomy of a female and the external anatomy of a male. Nothing that Jorgensen said explicitly supported this theory, but various professionals adopted it anyway. This theory was also used to downplay the importance of Jorgensen's transition, with doctors claiming that her surgeries were "far from a medical rarity... [with] similar cases in hospitals all over the U.S.". Others insisted that Jorgensen's pre-transition body was clearly male and the surgeries were not to mend a physical abnormality, but rather align her gender with her physical sex. The overwhelming amount of coverage opened new discussions surrounding gender, sex, and transexuals.

The publicity following her transition and gender reassignment surgery became "a model for other transsexuals for decades. She was a tireless lecturer on the subject of transsexuality, pleading for understanding from a public that all too often wanted to see transsexuals as freaks or perverts ... Ms Jorgensen's poise, charm, and wit won the hearts of millions." However, over time the press was much less fascinated by her and started to scrutinize her much more harshly. Print media often asked her if she would pose nude in their publications.

According to a 1985 publication, Jorgensen opposed the word "transsexual" due to the word sex, in her opinion, only being relevant to sexual intercourse. She stated, "I am a transgender because gender refers to who you are as a human."

Later life

After her vaginoplasty, Jorgensen planned to marry labor union statistician John Traub, but the engagement was called off. In 1959 she announced her engagement to typist Howard J. Knox in Massapequa Park, New York, where her father built her a house after reassignment surgery. She and Knox settled down and joined a Lutheran church. However, the couple was unable to obtain a marriage license because Jorgensen's birth certificate listed her as male. In a report about the broken engagement, The New York Times reported that Knox had lost his job in Washington, D.C. when his engagement to Jorgensen became known.

After her parents died, Jorgensen moved to California in 1967. She left behind the ranch home built by her father in Massapequa and settled at the Chateau Marmont in Los Angeles. During this same year, Jorgensen published her autobiography, Christine Jorgensen: A Personal Autobiography, which chronicled her life experiences as a transgender woman and included her perspectives on some of her significant life events. In her autobiography, Jorgensen revealed her struggles with depression. She explained how her mental health deteriorated and contemplated suicide but did not act on it. She wrote, "The answer to the problem must not lie in sleeping pills and suicides that look like accidents, or in jail sentences, but rather in life and the freedom to live it." During the 1970s and 1980s, Jorgensen toured university campuses and other venues to speak about her experiences. She was known for her directness and polished wit. She once demanded an apology from Vice President Spiro T. Agnew when he called Charles Goodell "the Christine Jorgensen of the Republican Party." Agnew refused her request.

Jorgensen also worked as an actress and nightclub entertainer and recorded several songs. In summer stock, she played Madame Rosepettle in the play Oh Dad, Poor Dad, Mamma's Hung You in the Closet and I'm Feelin' So Sad.

Circa 1958, while she was performing at the Latin Quarter in New York, she saw the 1958 musical Flower Drum Song on Broadway. There, she saw Pat Suzuki perform "I Enjoy Being a Girl," which shortly became Jorgensen's "theme song." Jorgensen included the song in her nightclub act, incorporating a quick-change into a Wonder Woman costume. Warner Communications, owners of the Wonder Woman character's copyright, demanded she stop using the character in 1981. She did so, using instead a new character of her invention, Superwoman, who was marked by the inclusion of a large letter S on her cape.

Jorgensen continued her act, performing at Freddy's Supper Club on the Upper East Side of Manhattan until at least 1982 when she performed twice in the Hollywood area: once at the Backlot Theatre, adjacent to the discothèque Studio One, and later at The Frog Pond restaurant. The performance was recorded and made available as an album on iTunes. In 1984, Jorgensen returned to Copenhagen to perform her show and was featured in Teit Ritzau's Danish transgender documentary film Paradiset er ikke til salg (Paradise Is Not for Sale). Jorgensen was the first and only known trans woman to perform at Oscar's Delmonico Restaurant in downtown New York, for which owners Oscar and Mario Tucci received criticism.

She died of bladder and lung cancer on May 3, 1989, at age 62. Her ashes were scattered off Dana Point, California.

Legacy
Jorgensen's highly publicized transition helped bring to light gender identity and shaped a new culture of more inclusive ideas about the subject. As a transgender spokesperson and public figure, she influenced other transgender people to change their sex and names on their birth certificates. Jorgensen saw herself as a founding member in what became known as the "sexual revolution." In a 1988 Los Angeles Times interview, Jorgensen stated, "I am very proud now, looking back, that I was on that street corner 36 years ago when a movement started. It was the sexual revolution that was going to start with or without me. We may not have started it, but we gave it a good swift kick in the pants."

In 2012, Jorgensen was inducted into Chicago's Legacy Walk, an outdoor public display celebrating LGBT history and people.

In 2014, Jorgensen was one of the inaugural honorees in the Rainbow Honor Walk, a walk of fame in San Francisco's Castro neighborhood, noting LGBTQ people who have "made significant contributions in their fields".

In June 2019, Jorgensen was one of the inaugural 50 American "pioneers, trailblazers, and heroes" included on the National LGBTQ Wall of Honor within the Stonewall National Monument (SNM) in New York City's Stonewall Inn. The SNM is the first U.S. national monument dedicated to LGBTQ rights and history, and the wall's unveiling was timed to take place during the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall riots.

In popular culture
During the 1950s, entrepreneurs and romantic partners Chuck Renslow and Dom Orejudos founded Kris Studios, a male physique photography studio that took photos for beefcake magazines they published, which was named in part to honor Jorgensen as a transgender pioneer. Kris Studios' photos are housed at the Leather Archives & Museum.

Posters for the Ed Wood film Glen or Glenda (1953), also known as I Changed My Sex and I Led Two Lives, publicize the movie as being based on Jorgensen's life. Originally producer George Weiss made her some offers to appear in the film, but she turned them down. Jorgensen is mentioned in connection with Glen or Glenda in Tim Burton's biopic Ed Wood (1994), but Jorgensen is not depicted as a character.

In 1954, during his earlier career as a calypso singer under the name The Charmer, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan recorded a song about Jorgensen, "Is She Is or Is She Ain't." (The title is a play on the 1940s Louis Jordan song, "Is You Is or Is You Ain't My Baby".)

The Christine Jorgensen Story, a fictionalized biopic based on Jorgensen's memoir, premiered in 1970. John Hansen played Jorgensen as an adult, while Trent Lehman played her at age seven.

In Christine Jorgensen Reveals, a stage performance at the 2005 Edinburgh Festival Fringe, Jorgensen was portrayed by Bradford Louryk. To critical acclaim, Louryk dressed as Jorgensen and performed in a recorded interview with her during the 1950s. At the same time, a video of Rob Grace as comically inept interviewer Nipsey Russell played on a nearby black-and-white television set. The show went on to win Best Aspect of Production at the 2006 Dublin Gay Theatre Festival, and it ran Off-Broadway at New World Stages in January 2006. The LP was reissued on CD by Repeat The Beat Records in 2005.

Transgender historian and critical theorist Susan Stryker directed and produced an experimental documentary about Jorgensen, titled Christine in the Cutting Room. In 2010 she also presented a lecture at Yale University titled "Christine in the Cutting Room: Christine Jorgensen's Transsexual Celebrity and Cinematic Embodiment". Both works examine embodiment vis-à-vis cinema.

Journalist Claudia Kalb's 2016 book Andy Warhol Was a Hoarder: Inside the Minds of History's Great Personalities devotes a chapter to Jorgensen's story, using her as an example of gender dysphoria and the process of gender transition in the 20th century.

title: Christine Jorgensen


text:
Talk:Graf

Surname
I need a consensus on this. Should links to persons with surnames such as Graf be included in an article about "graf", the title for German "count"? I personally think if there is enough material for the man there should be a separate article. I have never seen mixing personal names and ordinary nouns in any normal encyclopedic article. --Dieter Simon 23:48, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

March
The link to march does not make sense. I am not sure how to direct it to the disambiguation-page 'Mark' --Yak 17:52, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)

Better?--Ruhrjung 22:25, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Deichgraf
What about "Deichgraf", isn't that a title as well? Bgohla 22:17, 2005 May 15 (UTC) I am sure graf is related to the anglosaxon gerefa, reeve, meaning officer not graph, this should be checked.
 * I'm not entirely sure about the German, but the litteral Dutch translation "Dijkgraaf" exists, be it for a non-aristocratic official in water management
 * was checked in German sources; double-checking on Anglophone sites confirms the precise origin of Gerefa is uncertain, but no relation is believed. Fastifex 13:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Marquess or marquis
Collins English Dictionary, Longman Dictionary of the English Language, and The Chambers Dictionary give "marquis" as an alternative to "marquess". Have put the alternative back into the article. Dieter Simon 00:32, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Graf is still part of the last name
"Today, Graf is considered part of the name, and no longer to be considered as a title. [1]" This statement is not correct. It is true, that in Germany nobility was abolished ín 1918/1919 and former aristocratic titles became part of the last name (Graf being one aristocratic title). However, the title and post of Graf (=count) still exists in the world and this statement should be clarified: That in Germany Aristocracy in a legal sence and their titles no longer exist IN GERMANY, and that IN GERMANY (Not so in Austria for example) in 1919 the former titles became part of the last names

Rhinegrave, Wildgrave, Raugrave, Altgrave
I replaced the content of these sections, since they contradicted both de.wikipedia.org and several other sources. If the old content is valid in any way, please add it back in (with references, ideally). Chl 21:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Bless you Chl, I spent a half-hour clarifying those terms just below the chart with the different -graf titles before I noticed you had entered that info already. Heaven knows where the stuff before your version came from...! Cheers, Trigaranus 19:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Landgrave
The article reads, that a landgrave "was a nobleman of comital rank". That is actually wrong as far as i'm informed. All Landgraves, along with all Markgraves and most Palsgraves (Count Palatine) were Princes of the Empire in the late middle ages and therefore of princerly rank above the comital ranks. The Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels (formerly known as the Gotha, the reference book about german nobility) definitely lists landgraves as princes, not as counts. The german wikipedia adopted this definition and hence rates Landgraves among other princes. Since I can't find any evidence, that would confirm the perspective of the english wikipedia, I would suggest to adjust the respective articles. Any objections? Brisbane0 (talk) 14:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

German noble titles
In 1919 the various German states abolished hereditary titles of nobility, depriving them of all legal and official affiliation with the noble class, which also legally lost all other privileges. But the German nobility itself was not abolished, as the article on it clearly states in the lead paragraph -- where that fact belongs. Therefore in Germany Graf is not a title legally or officially affiliated with the nobility, and so references to the privileges of nobility no longer appertain to Graf, which legally may only signify part of a surname. Edits to the contrary are erroneous and subject to correction. FactStraight (talk) 08:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Your recent edit/addition to the original sentence "...rather than as an indication of nobility." is not supported by the source - see: "Verfassung des Deutschen Reiches" → Zweiter Hauptteil: Grundrechte und Grundpflichten der Deutschen → Erster Abschnitt: Die Einzelperson, Artikel 109." Your argument, i.e your conclusions are unsourced, and therefore in violation with No original research.
 * This article, "Graf", is about a historical title of the German nobility, which since August 1919, is treated as part of the legal surname. Although, all legal privileges of the nobility have been officially abolished, the nobility, per se, was not → "In der folgenden Verfassung des Deutschen Reiches (Weimarer Verfassung WRV) wurden am 11. August 1919 die „öffentlich-rechtliche(n) Vorrechte oder Nachteile der Geburt oder des Standes“ aufgehoben. Der Adel wurde aber nicht, wie in Österreich, explizit abgeschafft." . "Damit wurde der Adel als bevorrechtiger Stand abgeschafft, auch wenn sich in der verfassunggebenden Versammlung am 15. Juli 1919 eine Mehrheit nicht für die weitergehende Formulierung in Artikel 109 „Der Adel ist abgeschafft.“ entscheiden konnte und diese abgelehnt wurde.", see, "Sebastian-Johannes von Spoenla-Metternich: Namenserwerb, Namensführung und Namensänderung unter Berücksichtigung von Namensbestandteilen. Peter Lang, Europäischer Verlag der Wissenschaften, Frankfurt am Main 1998, ISBN 3-631-31779-4, S. 119 ff.". Altogether abolished were titles borne exclusively by German monarchs, such as emperor/empress, king/queen, grand duke/grand duchess, etc. However former titles shared and inherited by all members of the family were retained and incorporated into the surname. All other former titles and nobiliary particles are inherited as part of the surname, and remain protected as private names under the laws. Whereas the title often prefixed the given and surname, the legal usage moves the former title to the surname, however, the pre-1919 style sometimes continues in colloquial usage. Traditional titles exclusively used for unmarried noblewomen, such as Baronesse, Freiin and Freifräulein, were also transformed into parts of the legal surname, subject to change at marriage or upon request, meaning that a women will receive the female version of the former title → "Der bisherige Titel wurde so zum Bestandteil des bürgerlichen Familiennamens, wobei nach einer Entscheidung des Reichsgerichts vom 10. März 1926 (RGZ 113, 107 ff.) die geschlechtsspezifischen Varianten weiter verwendet werden konnten.", see, "Bernhard Seeger: Der Ehe- und Lebenspartnerschaftsname in der notariellen Praxis, in Mitteilungen des Bayerischen Notarvereins, ISSN 0941-4193, Juli/August 2002, München 2002, S. 230." and "Das Bürgerliche Gesetzbuch mit besonderer Berücksichtigung der Rechtsprechung des Reichsgerichts und des Bundesgerichtshofes; Kommentare (=Großkommentare der Praxis (German); "Civil Law Code with Special Attention to Jurisdiction of the Reichsgericht and the Bundesgerichtshof: Commentaries"), edited by members of the Bundesgerichthof, vol. 1: §§ 1–240, compiled by Kurt Herbert Johannsen, 12th, newly revised edition, Berlin and New York: de Gruyter, 1982, § 12 (p. 54). ISBN 3-11-008973-4."
 * Hereditary titles, abolished, but now being passed on as legal part of the surname, as well as the existence of the German nobility as a sociocultural class and phenomenon (that lost its legal privileges, but never was officially abolished) can not be denied. → see, for example, "Bis heute stellt der Adel in Deutschland dennoch mitunter eine relativ geschlossene Gesellschaftsschicht mit eigenen Lebensformen, Umgangsweisen und differenziertem Standesethos dar." or "Monika Wienfort: Der Adel in der Moderne. Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht, Göttingen 2006, S. 11." or "Hans-Ulrich Wehler: Deutsche Gesellschaftsgeschichte. Fünfter Band – Bundesrepublik und DDR 1949–1990. C. H. Beck, München 2008, S. 167.".

 * Ergo, your claim, that "Graf" (as a historical title, now being an official part of the surname) is not an "indicator" for nobility, is not correct. IIIraute (talk) 18:55, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think we are really in basic agreement, but misunderstood each other's initial edits. Your first edits on this article and on German nobility indicate that you thought I was inserting a denial that nobility exists and/or denying that it hearkens back to former titles, here, whereas another contributor had recently inserted text saying that nobility had been abolished in Germany here, and I had removed that assertion here. I share your belief that surnames in Germany with elements like "Graf" and "von" hearken back to nobility, but I don't consider that they denote nobility in the eyes of the German state, which is what the article was implyng in my view. I reacted to that, thinking that you were trying to needlessly emphasize that noble privileges have been abolished, whereas since I consider (and, I argue, the 1919 German states considered) possession of hereditary titles (rather than status) to be one of the privileges that Germany's nobility was, de jure, losing. Our real challenge here is trying to not let these articles fall prey to those who believe it to be so or want it to be so that Germany's nobility doesn't exist, that title-like names should never be mentioned without stating that noble titles don't exist, and who want the emphasis in relevant articles to be on what doesn't exist (privileges, titles) rather than on what does exist (nobility, surnames resembling noble titles still held by nobles). So do we actually disagree on anything here? FactStraight (talk) 00:21, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

 * I am not happy with the part that states "...rather than as an indication of nobility.". The privileges of the nobility have been abolished, not the nobility. A prefix to the surname, such as Prinz, Graf, Freiherr, etc. (usually in combination with a "von") does, de facto, indicate nobility.

 * "Mit dem Inkrafttreten der Weimarer Reichsverfassung am 14. August 1919 wurden alle Standesvorrechte des Adels abgeschafft (Artikel 109 Abs. 3 WRV[6]). Alle Bürger wurden vor dem Gesetz gleichgestellt, Männer und Frauen erhielten grundsätzlich dieselben staatsbürgerlichen Rechte und Pflichten, öffentlich-rechtliche Vorrechte oder Nachteile der Geburt oder des Standes wurden aufgehoben, Adelsbezeichnungen galten nur noch als Teil des Namens und durften nicht mehr verliehen werden, Titel durften nur noch verliehen werden, wenn sie ein Amt oder einen Beruf bezeichnen. Damit wurde der Adel als bevorrechtiger Stand abgeschafft, auch wenn sich in der verfassunggebenden Versammlung am 15. Juli 1919 eine Mehrheit nicht für die weitergehende Formulierung in Artikel 109 „Der Adel ist abgeschafft.“ entscheiden konnte und diese abgelehnt wurde." (Sebastian-Johannes von Spoenla-Metternich: Namenserwerb, Namensführung und Namensänderung unter Berücksichtigung von Namensbestandteilen. Peter Lang, Europäischer Verlag der Wissenschaften, Frankfurt am Main 1998, ISBN 3-631-31779-4, S. 119 ff.)

 * The titles and noble designations of the nobility have not been abolished by the German state (only the privileges connected to them), and may still be carried, although legally they are now merely parts of the family name and in theory convey no status. However, an example of society and state ignoring the 1919 law and following traditional practice is, that in all German telephone books, as well as on the electoral roll, a person named, for instance, Baron/Freiherr von Richthofen is listed under the letter "R" for Richthofen, rather than a "v" for "von" or a "B" for "Baron" or "F" for Freiherr, yet his birth certificate or passport will display the title as part of the surname. --IIIraute (talk) 01:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with making the distinction between de facto and de jure, and I think we can probably source it. Since we both agree that the German nobility was not abolished, our disagreement is narrowed down to whether "titles" were deemed "privileges" of the nobility -- I maintain they were, you maintain they weren't. Okay, we agree to disagree on that one. Do we agree that titles were legally abolished qua titles? Or do you maintain that they are still legally names and titles? FactStraight (talk) 03:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * IIIraute, I've re-read your documentation and I think I now see the error of my ways: my use of "abolished", as in "declared to no longer exist." I concur with you that is not the language used in the law. It seems to me that what occurred is that from 1919 German law ceased to recognize "Graf", "Freiherr", "Kronprinz", etc as titles of nobility or royalty -- but has never explicitly declared them not to be titles of nobility or royalty. However, henceforth the law recognized them only as elements in personal or family surnames. I think it would be useful to more fully explain that in the German nobility article. FactStraight (talk) 17:14, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is basically what I wanted to say. Of course noble titles were privileges of the nobility, yet only the privileges connected with the titles, (i.e. social rank/duties/legal privileges) were abolished, not the titles themselves (like in Austria). Although in theory they do not convey any status, they still do exist, but as part of the surname. Only titles borne exclusively by German monarchs, such as emperor/empress, king/queen, etc. were abolished. Former titles shared and inherited by all members of the family were retained and incorporated into the surname. See, for example the "Entscheidung des Reichsgerichts vom 10. März 1926 (RGZ 113, 107 ff." regarding male/female versions (gender difference) of the title, i.e regarding the treatment of inherited titles as part of the surname for married women/daughters. Otherwise females would inherit the male version of the title – that is now part of the surname. --IIIraute (talk) 23:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Graf


text:
Talk:Carte network

Untitled
Hi. I've enjoyed creating this article.

All the material I have used to date has been gleaned from Rita Kramer's "Flames in the Field" - a real mine of information about SOE and the French Resistance.

As the article stands it reads like a bitter tale of failure, deception and betrayal - which is perhaps as it should be.

Can anyone provide material describing any successes of Carte? Or provide any references? Peter Manchester 23:49, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Other material

 * Pierre de Benouville, politician and writer, born August 8 1914; died December 5 2001 Obituary
 * Enough material there for a short biography but only cursory reference to Carte - needs fleshing out. Was a member of Carte between August 1941 and December 1942. Peter Manchester 00:20, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Carte network


text:
London Mithraeum

The London Mithraeum, also known as the Temple of Mithras, Walbrook, is a Roman Mithraeum that was discovered in Walbrook, a street in the City of London, during a building's construction in 1954. The entire site was relocated to permit continued construction and this temple of the mystery god Mithras became perhaps the most famous 20th-century Roman discovery in London.

Excavation and artefacts
The site was excavated by W. F. Grimes, director of the Museum of London, and Audrey Williams in 1954. The temple, initially hoped to have been an early Christian church, was built in the mid-3rd century and dedicated to Mithras or perhaps jointly to several deities popular among Roman soldiers. Then it was rededicated, probably to Bacchus, in the early fourth century. Found within the temple, where they had been carefully buried at the time of its rededication, were finely detailed third-century white marble likenesses of Minerva, Mercury the guide of the souls of the dead, and the syncretic gods Mithras and Serapis, imported from Italy. There were several coarser locally-made clay figurines of Venus, combing her hair. The artefacts recovered were put on display in the Museum of London.

Among the sculptures the archaeologists found was a head of Mithras himself, recognizable by his Phrygian cap. The base of the head is tapered to fit a torso, which was not preserved.

Artefacts found in Walbrook in 1889 probably came from the Mithraeum, according to the archaeologist Ralph Merrifield, although this was not identified at the time. One was a marble relief, 0.53 m tall, of Mithras in the act of killing the astral bull, the Tauroctony that was as central to Mithraism as the Crucifixion is to Christianity. On it Mithras is accompanied by the two small figures of the torch-bearing celestial twins of Light and Darkness, Cautes and Cautopates, within the cosmic annual wheel of the zodiac. At the top left, outside the wheel, Sol–Helios ascends the heavens in his biga; at top right Luna descends in her chariot. The heads of two wind-gods, Boreas and Zephyros, are in the bottom corners. It bears the inscription "VLPIVS SILVANVS EMERITVS LEG II AVG VOTVM SOLVIT FACTVS ARAVSIONE"

which may be translated "Ulpius Silvanus, veteran soldier of the Second Augustan Legion, in fulfilment of a vow, makes this altar [as the result of] a vision" or "Ulpius Silvanus, veteran of the Second Legion Augusta, fulfilled his vow having become (a Mithraist) at Orange"

Nearby were buried heads of the Roman goddess Minerva and a finely detailed bearded head of Serapis, Jupiter-like in his features but securely recognizable by the grain-basket, the modius, upon his head, a token of resurrection.

An inscription dateable AD 307–310 at the site "PRO SALVTE D N CCCC ET NOB CAES DEO MITHRAE ET SOLI INVICTO AB ORIENTE AD OCCIDENTEM"

may be translated "For the Salvation of our lords the four emperors and the noble Caesar, and to the god Mithras, the Invincible Sun from the east to the west".

Parallel to the construction work between 2010 and 2014, Museum of London Archaeology led a team of over 50 archaeologists in further excavations of the site. Excavation recovered more than 14,000 items, including a large assembly of tools. The varied objects are thought to have been brought to the site in landfills and soils collected elsewhere and laid down to improve the marshy banks of the River Walbrook during the rebuilding of London after the Boudican revolt of AD 60 or 61.

The local waterlogged soil conditions then preserved even organic material like leather shoes and a large assembly of wooden writing tablets of which over 400 were found. The tablets originally held a layer of dark wax and messages were scratched into the wax with a stylus that revealed the paler wood underneath. The wax has perished, but the words were reconstructed from scratch marks left in the wood. Among the messages is the oldest financial document from London, dated AD 57, and two addresses from AD 62 and AD 70 containing the earliest mention of London.

Relocation history
The Roman temple, when it was originally built, would have stood on the east bank of the now covered-over River Walbrook, a key freshwater source in Roman Londinium. Nearby, in its former streambed, a small square hammered lead sheet was found, on which an enemy of someone named Martia Martina had inscribed her name backwards and thrown the token into the stream, in a traditional Celtic way of reaching the gods that has preserved metal tokens in rivers throughout Celtic Europe, from the swords at La Tène to Roman times (compare wishing well.) The temple foundations are very close to other important sites in the city of London including the historic London Stone, the Bank of England and London Wall. The original Mithraeum was built partly underground, recalling the cave of Mithras where the Mithraic epiphany took place.

The temple site was uncovered in September 1954 during excavation work for the construction of Bucklersbury House, a 14-storey modernist office block to house Legal & General. As a compromise between redesigning the new building and abandoning the archaeological site, the ruin was dismantled and moved 100 metres to Temple Court, Queen Victoria Street, where in 1962 the foundations were reassembled at street level for an open-air public display. The reconstruction was not accurate and drew criticism for the materials used. An interim report on the excavation included in W. F. Grimes, The Excavation of Roman and Mediaeval London (1968) was superseded by John Shepherd, The Temple of Mithras, Walbrook (an English Heritage monograph) (1998).

In 2007 plans were drawn up to return the Mithraeum to its original location, following the demolition of Bucklersbury House and four other buildings in the block for the planned creation of a new Walbrook Square development, designed by Foster and Partners and Jean Nouvel Architects. However, redesigns and disputes between freeholders Legal & General and Metrovacesa, who had agreed to buy the project, resulted in the Walbrook Square project being put on hold in October 2008, when Bovis Lend Lease removed their project team. Metrovacesa left the project in August 2009. In May 2010 the Mithraeum remained in situ at Temple Court, though in the same month there was talk of reviving the Walbrook Square project.

The Walbrook Square project was purchased by the Bloomberg company in 2010, which decided to restore the Mithraeum to its original site as part of their new European headquarters. The new site is 7 metres below the modern street level, as part of an exhibition space beneath the Bloomberg building. The temple was moved a little west of its original position to preserve parts of the walls that were not uncovered in 1952–54 and are too fragile to display today.

The ruins are reconstructed as they appeared at the end of the excavation in October 1954, reflecting the first building phase of around AD 240 without any later Roman additions to the site. A large majority of the stones and bricks are original. The wood, render and lime mortar are new, but based on mortar samples from contemporary Roman London structures. The temple is displayed with a selection of artefacts found on the site.

title: London Mithraeum


text:
A Visit from St. Nicholas

"A Visit from St. Nicholas", routinely referred to as "The Night Before Christmas" and "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" from its first line, is a poem first published anonymously under the title Account of a Visit from St. Nicholas in 1823 and later attributed to Clement Clarke Moore, who claimed authorship in 1837.

The poem has been called "arguably the best-known verses ever written by an American" and is largely responsible for some of the conceptions of Santa Claus from the mid-19th century to today. It has had a massive effect on the history of Christmas gift-giving. Before the poem gained wide popularity, American ideas had varied considerably about Saint Nicholas and other Christmastide visitors. "A Visit from St. Nicholas" eventually was set to music and has been recorded by several artists.

Plot
On the night of Christmas Eve, a family is settling down to sleep when the father is awakened by noises on their lawn. Looking out the window, he sees Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, in a sleigh pulled by eight reindeer.

After landing his sleigh on the roof, Santa gets down the chimney. He carries a sack of toys, and the father watches his visitor deliver presents and fill the stockings hanging by the fireplace, and laughs to himself. They share a conspiratorial moment before Santa bounds up the chimney again. As he flies away, Santa calls out "Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night."

History
The authorship of A Visit is credited to Clement Clarke Moore who is said to have composed it on a snowy winter's day during a shopping trip on a sleigh. His inspiration for the character of Saint Nicholas was a local Dutch handyman as well as the historic Saint Nicholas.

Moore originated many of the features that are still associated with Santa Claus today while borrowing other aspects, such as the use of reindeer. The poem was first published anonymously in the Troy, New York Sentinel on 23 December 1823, having been sent there by a friend of Moore, and was reprinted frequently thereafter with no name attached. It was first attributed in print to Moore in 1837.

In 1842, the noted poet and editor William Cullen Bryant credited Moore as the author when he included the piece in an anthology of American poetry he had compiled. Moore himself acknowledged authorship when he included it in his own book of poems in 1844. By then, the original publisher and at least seven others had already acknowledged his authorship. Moore had a reputation as an erudite professor and had not wished at first to be connected with the unscholarly verse. He included it in the anthology at the insistence of his children, for whom he had originally written the piece.

Moore's conception of Saint Nicholas was borrowed from his friend Washington Irving, but Moore portrayed his "jolly old elf" as arriving on Christmas Eve rather than Christmas Day. At the time that Moore wrote the poem, Christmas Day was overtaking New Year's Day as the preferred genteel family holiday of the season, but some Protestants viewed Christmas as the result of "Catholic ignorance and deception" and still had reservations. By having Saint Nicholas arrive the night before, Moore "deftly shifted the focus away from Christmas Day with its still-problematic religious associations". As a result, "New Yorkers embraced Moore's child-centered version of Christmas as if they had been doing it all their lives."

In An American Anthology, 1787–1900, editor Edmund Clarence Stedman reprinted the Moore version of the poem, including the Dutch spelling of "Donder" and German spelling of "Blitzen" that he adopted, rather than the version from 1823 "Dunder and Blixem" that is more similar to the old Dutch "Donder en Blixem" that translates to "Thunder and Lightning".

Authorship controversy
Moore's connection with the poem has been questioned by Professor Donald Foster, who used textual content analysis and external evidence to argue that Moore could not have been the author. Foster believes that Major Henry Livingston Jr., a New Yorker with Dutch and Scottish roots, should be considered the chief candidate for authorship, a view long espoused by the Livingston family. Livingston was distantly related to Moore's wife.

Foster's claim, however, has been countered by document dealer and historian Seth Kaller, who once owned one of Moore's original manuscripts of the poem. Kaller has offered a point-by-point rebuttal of both Foster's linguistic analysis and external findings, buttressed by the work of autograph expert James Lowe and Joe Nickell, author of Pen, Ink and Evidence.

Evidence in favor of Moore
On 20 January 1829, Troy editor Orville L. Holley alluded to the author of the Christmas poem, using terms that accurately described Moore as a native and current resident of New York City, and as "a gentleman of more merit as a scholar and a writer than many of more noisy pretensions". In December 1833, a diary entry by Francis P. Lee, a student at General Theological Seminary when Moore taught there, referred to a holiday figure of St. Nicholas as being "robed in fur, and dressed according to the description of Prof. Moore in his poem".

Four poems including A Visit from St. Nicholas appeared under Moore's name in The New-York Book of Poetry, edited by Charles Fenno Hoffman (New York: George Dearborn, 1837). The Christmas poem appears on pp. 217–19, credited to "Clement C. Moore". Moore stated in a letter to the editor of the New York American (published on March 1, 1844) that he "gave the publisher" of The New-York Book of Poetry "several pieces, among which was the 'Visit from St. Nicholas.'" Admitting that he wrote it "not for publication, but to amuse my children," Moore claimed the Christmas poem in this 1844 letter as his "literary property, however small the intrinsic value of that property may be".

"A Visit from St. Nicholas" appears on pp. 124–27 in Moore's volume of collected Poems (New York: Bartlett and Welford, 1844). Prior to 1844, the poem was included in two 1840 anthologies, attributed to "Clement C. Moore" in Selections from The American Poets, edited by William Cullen Bryant (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1840), pp. 285–86; and to "C. C. Moore" in the first volume of The Poets of America, edited by John Keese (New York: S. Colman, 1840), pp. 102–04. The New-York Historical Society has a later manuscript of the poem in Moore's handwriting, forwarded by T. W. C. Moore along with a cover letter dated March 15, 1862 giving circumstances of the poem's original composition and transmission after a personal "interview" with Clement C. Moore.

After "A Visit from St. Nicholas" appeared under Moore's name in the 1837 New-York Book of Poetry, newspaper printings of the poem often credited Moore as the author. For example, the poem is credited to "Professor Moore" in the 25 December 1837 Pennsylvania Inquirer and Daily Courier. Although Moore did not authorize the earliest publication of the poem in the Troy Sentinel, he had close ties to Troy through the Protestant Episcopal Church that could explain how it got there. Harriet Butler of Troy, New York (daughter of the Rev. David Butler) who allegedly showed the poem to Sentinel editor Orville L. Holley, was a family friend of Moore's and possibly a distant relative. A letter to Moore from the publisher Norman Tuttle states, "I understand from Mr. Holley that he received it from Mrs. Sackett, the wife of Mr. Daniel Sackett who was then a merchant in this city".

The reported involvement of two women, Harriet Butler and Sarah Sackett, as intermediaries is consistent with the 1862 account of the poem's earliest transmission in which T. W. C. Moore describes two stages of copying, first "by a relative of Dr Moores in her Album" and second, "by a friend of hers, from Troy". Moore preferred to be known for his more scholarly works, but allowed the poem to be included in his anthology in 1844 at the request of his children.

By that time, the original publisher and at least seven others had already acknowledged his authorship. Livingston family lore gives credit to their forebear rather than Moore, but there is no proof that Livingston himself ever claimed authorship, nor has any record ever been found of any printing of the poem with Livingston's name attached to it, despite more than 40 years of searches.

Evidence in favor of Livingston

Advocates for Livingston's authorship argue that Moore "tried at first to disavow" the poem. They also posit that Moore falsely claimed to have translated a book. Document dealer and historian Seth Kaller has challenged both claims. Kaller examined the book in question, A Complete Treatise on Merinos and Other Sheep, as well as many letters signed by Moore, and found that the "signature" was not penned by Moore, and thus provides no evidence that Moore made any plagiaristic claim. Kaller's findings were confirmed by autograph expert James Lowe, by Dr. Joe Nickell, the author of Pen, Ink & Evidence, and by others. According to Kaller, Moore's name was likely written on the book by a New-York Historical Society cataloger to indicate that it had been a gift from Moore to the Society.

The following points have been advanced in order to credit the poem to Major Henry Livingston Jr.:

Livingston also wrote poetry primarily using an anapaestic metrical scheme, and it is claimed that some of the phraseology of "A Visit" is consistent with other poems by Livingston, and that Livingston's poetry is more optimistic than Moore's poetry published in his own name. But Stephen Nissenbaum argues in Battle for Christmas that the poem could have been a social satire of the Victorianization of Christmas. Kaller claims that Foster cherry-picked only the poems that fit his thesis and that many of Moore's unpublished works have a tenor, phraseology, and meter similar to "A Visit". Moore had even written a letter titled "From Saint Nicholas" that may have predated 1823.

Foster also contends that Moore hated tobacco and would, therefore, never have depicted Saint Nicholas with a pipe. However, Kaller notes, the source of evidence for Moore's supposed disapproval of tobacco is The Wine Drinker, another poem by him. In actuality, that verse contradicts such a claim. Moore's The Wine Drinker criticizes self-righteous, hypocritical advocates of temperance who secretly indulge in the substances which they publicly oppose, and supports the social use of tobacco in moderation and wine and opium, which was more acceptable then than now.

Foster also asserts that Livingston's mother was Dutch, which accounts for the references to the Dutch Sinteklaes tradition and the use of the Dutch names "Dunder and Blixem". Against this claim, it is suggested by Kaller that Moore – a friend of writer Washington Irving and member of the same literary society – may have acquired some of his knowledge of New York Dutch traditions from Irving. Irving had written A History of New York in 1809 under the name of "Dietrich Knickerbocker". It includes several references to legends of Saint Nicholas, including the following that bears a close relationship to the poem:

"And the sage Oloffe dreamed a dream,—and lo, the good St. Nicholas came riding over the tops of the trees, in that self-same wagon wherein he brings his yearly presents to children, and he descended hard by where the heroes of Communipaw had made their late repast. And he lit his pipe by the fire, and sat himself down and smoked; and as he smoked, the smoke from his pipe ascended into the air and spread like a cloud overhead. And Oloffe bethought him, and he hastened and climbed up to the top of one of the tallest trees, and saw that the smoke spread over a great extent of country; and as he considered it more attentively, he fancied that the great volume of smoke assumed a variety of marvelous forms, where in dim obscurity he saw shadowed out palaces and domes and lofty spires, all of which lasted but a moment, and then faded away, until the whole rolled off, and nothing but the green woods were left. And when St. Nicholas had smoked his pipe, he twisted it in his hatband, and laying his finger beside his nose, gave the astonished Van Kortlandt a very significant look; then, mounting his wagon, he returned over the tree-tops and disappeared."

MacDonald P. Jackson, a professor emeritus at the University of Auckland and a fellow at the Royal Society of New Zealand, authored a book in 2016, Who Wrote "The Night Before Christmas"?: Analyzing the Clement Clarke Moore Vs. Henry Livingston Question, in which he evaluates the opposing arguments, using author-attribution techniques of modern computational stylistics to examine the long-standing controversy. Employing a range of tests, including a statistical analysis of phonemes, Jackson contends that Livingston authored the classic poem.

Musical adaptations
Parts of the poem have been set to music numerous times, including a bowdlerized version (that omitted several verses such as "The moon on the breast of the new fallen snow ... etc.". and rewrote and replaced many others such as "the prancing and pawing of each little hoof" with "the clattering noise of each galloping hoof"), by the American composer Ken Darby (1909–1992), whose version was recorded by Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians three separate times; in 1942, 1955, and 1963. The latter 1963 stereo recording for Capitol Records became the most familiar of the poem's musical adaptations. Christmas song-writing specialist Johnny Marks also composed a short version in 1952, titled "The Night Before Christmas Song", which has been recorded multiple times, and was used in the soundtrack for the 1964 TV special Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, sung by Burl Ives, which does not appear in the television special. It was also arranged for choir by Lee Kjelson and Margaret Shelley Vance. The poem was also set to music by British child composer Alma Deutscher (b. 2005). In 1953, Perry Como recorded a recitation of the poem for RCA Victor with background music arranged and conducted by Mitchell Ayres. Louis Armstrong recited the poem in a March 1971 recording made only four months before his death. It was recorded at his home in Corona, Queens and released as 45rpm by Continental Records.

Jo Stafford recorded a version of "'Twas The Night Before Christmas" as part of her 1955 album Happy Holiday.

The first completely musical rendition, that used the text of the poem in its entirety without material additions or alterations, was the cantata "A Visit from St. Nicholas" composed by Lucian W. Dressel in 1992 and first performed by the Webster University Orchestra, SATB Soloists, and Chorus. More recent performances of the cantata have been performed by regional orchestras and choruses in Missouri, Illinois and Colorado.

Original copies
Four hand-written copies of the poem are known to exist and three are in museums, including the New-York Historical Society library. The fourth copy, written out and signed by Clement Clarke Moore as a gift to a friend in 1860, was sold by one private collector to another in December 2006. It was purchased for $280,000 by an unnamed "chief executive officer of a media company" who resides in New York City, according to Heritage Auctions which brokered the private sale.

In popular culture
The poem is read or recited in numerous Christmas films, including Prancer (1989), National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation (1989), The Santa Clause (1994), Reindeer Games (2000), and Falling for Christmas (2016). It also inspired two television specials called 'Twas the Night Before Christmas made in 1974 and 1977 respectively.

'Twas the Night Before Christmas (2022) is a Hallmark Channel film about a town's annual Christmas Eve courtroom production debating the true authorship of the poem.

title: A Visit from St. Nicholas


text:
Nebraska Amish

The Nebraska Amish, also called Old Schoolers, are a relatively small affiliation of the Amish. They are the most conservative subgroup of Amish, indicated not only by their use of technology but also by their particular style of dress. They emerged in 1881 as a conservative split from the Byler Amish, who themselves emerged as the first conservative splinter group from the Amish mainstream in 1849.

History
Amish settled in the Mifflin County region of Pennsylvania – the Kishacoquillas Valley – as early as 1791, coming from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. In the 1840s there were three Amish congregations in the region with a membership of 290. In 1849 Samuel B. King, a conservative bishop who warned against adopting the use of rubber tires on buggies and who was also accused of giving sermons that were too long, was "silenced", that is he was removed from his ministerial duties. One of the three districts, the "lower" district sided with King and split from the other two districts forming the Byler Amish as the first conservative split from the Amish mainstream in North America.

Around 1880, Bishop Yost H. Yoder from the Kishacoquillas Valley settlement led nine families from Juniata County, Pennsylvania, to Gosper County in south-central Nebraska, founding an Old Order Amish settlement there in the hope of maintaining their traditional distinct church and family life.

Yoder went back to the Kishacoquillas Valley in Pennsylvania in 1881 to assist in the establishment of a conservative splinter group originating from the Byler Amish. Yoder eventually became the leader of the new group. Because Yoder had been living in Nebraska for some time, the group was nicknamed the Nebraska Amish by others.

In 1933, a group called the Zook faction broke away from the Nebraska Amish over the use of projecting roof gables, and formed a separate district, holding their own worship services and having their own bishops. The Zook group split again in 1978. Though differences exist, they are almost unnoticeable to outsiders. Since the late 1970s they have split several times. Groups include the Rufus Zook group, the Chris Yoder group, and others.

In the early 1980s several church districts of the Swartzentruber Amish in Minnesota, Tennessee, and Ohio split from the Swartzentruber church districts elsewhere because of disagreements over shunning ("Bann und Meidung"). This group, known as the "Jeck Jeckey Leit" is now affiliated with the Nebraska Amish.

Practice and belief
Nebraska Amish dress the most conservatively of all Amish groups. Their dress is quite different from other Old Order groups because it is less influenced by the plain dress that the Quakers had developed earlier. Men are known for not wearing suspenders, trousers are laced up in the back instead. Men also wear white shirts, brown denim trousers and jackets and hair at shoulder length. The hats of the men are very broad brimmed. Women do not wear bonnets, wearing black kerchiefs and flat straw hats instead. Women in the Kish Valley and in Union County do not wear straw hats but wear white bonnet like prayer caps and in cold weather wear black head scarves over the bonnet. The head scarves are often monogrammed with names or initials. Many of the monograms are completed with fabric paint rather than using thread.

Concerning the use of technologies, the Nebraska Amish are about as restrictive as the Swartzentruber Amish, see table below. Like other Old Order Amish, the Nebraska Amish do not use motorized equipment or indoor plumbing. Other differences include the fact that they do not place screens on their doors or windows, men only wear white shirts, curtains are not used in homes, buggy tops must be white, men's hair must be shoulder length, no lawn mowers are allowed and houses must not have projecting roofs. Recently it was observed in the Kish Valley front mountain Nebraska Amish several minor changes have taken place. LED lights are now replacing kerosene lanterns on buggies and inside homes. The power tool batteries are charged using small solar panels. The retail price of white kerosene in the valley is currently at $7.999 a gallon so these changes could be economically related. Recently at Amish auctions, used stainless steel lamp reflectors were being sold as they are no longer needed with kerosene lanterns being replaced with 20 volt LED household lamps.

Because Nebraska Amish have a relatively small number of youth, they allow dating over the line. So young people of different Nebraska Amish groups can date each other; however, when they want to marry they have to decide which of the groups they will join. The Nebraska Amish practice bundling.

Members and congregations
In 1900 the Old School—i.e., the Nebraska Amish—had 2 districts with 159 members, in 1956 the original Yoder group had 70 and the Zook group 60 members. As of 2000, the Nebraska Amish had 14 church districts and 775 members and a total population of 1,744, mostly in northeastern Mifflin County. As of 2011 they had 19 church districts in 5 settlements. The main Nebraska Amish settlement is found in Mifflin County, Pennsylvania, with small extensions into Centre, Huntingdon, and Union counties. There are 3 other Nebraska Amish settlements in Pennsylvania and one settlement near Andover, Ohio, just at the border to Pennsylvania, which was founded in 1992.

title: Nebraska Amish


text:
Talk:January 29

Barboro
Should a horse really be put in the deaths section, which is normally reserved for humans? Maybe put it under the events section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Art10 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Agreed. I moved it. Llamabr (talk) 18:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is generally not the case. The events section is reserved for items that are of particular global notability.  Any birth or death is rarely considered globally notable enough to be included under events - least of all an animal.  Births and Deaths sections are not reserved for humans. Notable animals can also be listed there.  Personally, I don't agree that animals should be listed anywhere, but consensus says otherwise.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 18:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Emanuel Swedenborg
According to the Wikipedia entry for Emanuel Swedenborg he was born February 8 and not January 29. Probably Heisenberg (talk) 22:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed. In the future, just remove it.  Don't be afraid to be bold.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 01:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello since Jan 29th is my birthdate too(jan.29,19450 Saw that questions were raised to if the Great Sweedish Scientists and mystic Sweedenborg was born Jan 29th. Knw W.C. Fields was and Tom Sellick same day and year as I!Merci',Thanks(dated Eve.PM Sept.18,2009 21st.Cent.Dr.,Edson Andre' Johnson D.D.ULC>) ANDREMOI (talk) 02:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Well Emanuel Swedenborg was born on February 8 according to the English language Wikipedia if that is the person you intend. However the February 8 date is in the Gregorian calendar while your suggested date of January 29 is in the Julian calendar also know as "Old Style" (OS), in the Swedish Wikipedia his birth date is shown in Julian/Old Style which may explain your thinking that January 29 is the right day.   -- Drappel (talk) 10:46, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Was Jan 29th really the recignized birthdayte of great sweedish matamitician religouos leader Emmauel Sweedenborg?(Mine is Jan 29th too! EAJ>) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BUNKIA (talk • contribs) 20:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Events - 1978, Sweden bans aerosol sprays
This identical event is listed on January 23. There's many sites on the web listing either the 23rd or 29th. I've found most universities saying the 23rd, but some say the 29th. I've searched extensively in Sweden's Parlaiment website, but can't find any reference to either. The EPA website mentions April 1978. Nothing found in Sweden's Ministry of the Environment's website either. Any suggestions? As a note, January 23, 1978 fell on a Monday, the 29th fell on a Sunday. I wouldn't think their gov operates on Sundays to make such announcements, but who knows? Could have been a special session for all I know. Kentholke (talk) 22:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Update - I emailed the Senior Registry Clerk at Sweden's Ministry of the Environment today. Hopefully I'll hear back Kentholke (talk) 21:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Fat Thursday
Hello,

If Fat Tuesday is equivalent to Shrove Tuesday, the earliest date for this celebration should be February 3, and not January 29.

BTH (talk) 11:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello, notice the day is Fat Thursday not Fat Tuesday. --Rochelimit (talk) 23:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

In my limited experience, Fat Thursday is not known in the West, except in old Polish enclaves, where pączki is usually spelt panki. It it helpful to attribute it to "Western Civilization" without some specification of where? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.195.238 (talk) 03:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Mantra-Rock Dance
It's a FA, and January 29, 2012 is the 45th anniversary of the event. Plus, its main illustration is a FP. Should perhaps be given consideration for OTD on January 29, 2012. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 10:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Removal of birth entries
Continuing the ongoing effort to reduce the size of the Births and Deaths sections to make them manageable, I've removed some celebrities with few or no articles in other wikipedias, moving the entries to the appropriate Year in Topic article if they were not already present. Deb (talk) 12:51, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

You're going to have to point me to some actual, large-scale consensus for such a large change, not just "because I said so". --Calton | Talk 00:17, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

 * See also Wikipedia_talk:Days_of_the_year for ongoing discussion, evidence of general consensus and proposals for improvement. Deb (talk) 08:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Did not notice the birthday or year she as born.Of Ophra Winfrey,Jan 29th?!
Dr.Edson Andre ' Johnson D.D.ULC Amm (1/29/45) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortedik (talk • contribs) 04:38, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on January 29. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20121209201132/http://www1.sympatico.ca/cgi-bin/on_this_day?mth=Jan&day=29 to http://www1.sympatico.ca/cgi-bin/on_this_day?mth=Jan&day=29

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:35, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Holidays and observances
"Juniper" is not a saint nor a blessed (which are sometimes included here). I will remove him in the absence of an overriding reason.--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:01, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2019
I wish to add a period at the end of this sentence: ""The Raven" is published in The Evening Mirror in New York, the first publication with the name of the author, Edgar Allan Poe" 98.210.124.96 (talk) 01:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done DannyS712 (talk) 04:41, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:January 29