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Talk:Anarchism and Marxism

Genesis
I have started this page as discussed with User:Fifelfoo at Talk:Anarchism. Possible additions include: I think this could be a very useful and interesting article! --Sam 11:33, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * developing a fuller section on the historical conflict between anarchists and Marxists;
 * developing a section on the ideological conflict between anarchism and Marxism;
 * a discussion of the common roots of modern anarchism and modern Marxism;
 * developing a section on the methodological similarities (dialectical materialism and class analysis) between Marxists and anarchists -- 'class struggle' anarchists in particular.

 * For the first sentence to be true ("Anarchism and Marxism are similar political philosophies which emerged in the nineteenth century"), wouldn't there need to be some leading Marxists, including Marx, who called anarchism and Marxism similar? Trotsky called anarchists cowards who "hide from power." Lenin publicly rejected anarchism with a specific eight-point program in 1905. Marx wrote with contempt of Stirner, Proudhon and Bakunin.

 * Given the anarchist thrust of the article, one imagines that the anarchist is like the annoying young tag-along in the circle of Marxist big kids, thinking he is part of the group even after he's been ditched. AECwriter 16:32, 24 November 2012 (UTC)AECwriter

From Anarchism:
 * Some critics of anarchism suggest that it is a rhetorical form, whereby individuals can cloak the pursuit of their own interests behind an interlocking web of abstract concepts. Some anarchists speculate that freedom is unconstrained desire. Marx suggested that this desire was the material basis of the Anarchy of the market. Both Marxism and some forms of anarchism use the fluid manipulation of concepts through historical materialism, which links ideas with their social basis. Hence these historical materialists dismiss the idea of freedom as unconstrained desire, arguing that it is a politics for those who do not know what they want. The prominance of the idea that freedom is unconstrained desire in the English-speaking world may explain the development of anarchism in the West into an identity politics, albeit with a dissident White identity.

This is nonsense, read the organizational platform of the libertariam communists, looks at the workers solidarity movement, the zabalaza anarchist communist federation. From the Bottom up is NOT empty rethoric, the key difference is the relationship between revolutionary militants and the masses, anarchists try to participate in popular struggles trying to lead them by example into organized action instead of imposing it upon them by the threat and use of violence. The organizations they build reflect this, that is why they advocate the voluntary association of workers in base assemblies and the free federation of workers via mandated spokepersons or delegates. They work and fight as equals not rulers. The same could be said of many marxists, however, when they accumulate enough power most abandon this way of doing things and build a hierarchical and bureaucratical rule OVER the working class.

By lumping anarchists with individualists you use an old chicanery, it is the same as lumping trotskyists and stalinists together and accusing both of defendind peaceful coexistance.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.235.193.58 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 2 Jul 2006 (UTC)

There's a section in Marx and Engels' Communist Manifesto where they critique some anarchists who also considered themselves socialists. If I recall correctly, they also compliment these anarchists for being the most consistent in holding to the vision of socialism. I think it is also important to note that while Marx and Engels are monumental figures in communism/socialism and political philosophy in general, their ideas are not original. By this, I mean that communism/socialism preceded Marx and Engels. Let's not treat Marx's work like a biblical canon and ignore everything that came before him. -- Laaperitif — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laaperitif (talk • contribs) 18:30, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Revival?
I first created the Anarchist Objections to Capitalism page, then moved it per suggestion to Anarchism and Capitalism (someone has since decapitalized "capitalism", heh) -- there was a redirect from here to Anarchist Objections to Marxism but to be consistent I've redirected the redirects so that this is where the Anarchism vs. marxism (though mostly from the anarchist viewpoint) debate should unfold, as it did originally. Expand it! --albamuth 05:29, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Improve it, please...
This article, from where I stand, lacks rigor and useful information.

--GTubio 07:33, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Anarchism remained illegal in the Soviet Union from this period until its 1991 collapse." I can't find a date for when it was made illegal. Can someone provide, as this is probably important. Isiod 08:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

History
Shouldn't a (very) large part of this article be concerned with the historical relationship between Anarchists and Marxists? It's discussed on other pages, but not in detail, which is strange considering it's importance. I'm suprised the Spanish Revolution, the Ukrainian guerillas, Goldman and Berkman, Cuba, China and so on hasn't come up.

Or is that all worthy of it's own page, or does such a page already exist? --Ragnor Ironpants 16:40, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * There is a lot of information about the split of the First International, which was primarily a fight between Marx and Bakunin, I believe. However I do not have the background to elaborate on it. --albamuth 20:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Changes to "understanding of class" section
I made a number of revisions:

There was a half-paragraph discussing the consequences of the supposed fact that no Marxist revolution has been led by workers, which I removed in its entirety. Not only is the premise false - the Russian revolution for one was led by the Bolsheviks a clear majority of whom, by that point, were workers - but there were several major inaccuracies in the following discussion, e.g. identifying the "labor aristocracy" thesis as a basic tenet of Leninism when it is highly contested.

I added a very brief discussion of the Marxist position on the relation between class and other oppressions, and the criticisms of it. I also added a very brief discussion of Marxist positions on inevitability, and the famous Luxemburg phrase.

I removed "agricultural workers" from a list of non-working-class groups, because agricultural wage-laborers, in contrast to peasants, are working-class by the Marxist definition. A related problem in the sentence below I could not solve, and would appreciate help with:
 * Key differences thus include the fact that Anarchists do not differentiate between peasants, lumpen, and proletarians and instead define all people who work for wage labor as members of the working class, regardless of occupation;

This is self-contradictory. Peasants, by definition in the standard use of the term, do not work for wage labor. They own land or rent it and live by eating or selling the crop they grow. I am not an anarchist, and I do not know whether anarchists usually believe that peasants are not workers or whether they believe that some people who don't work for wage labor are still workers, but one or the other must be the case.

An aside - there's a general pro-anarchist and anti-Marxist bias in this article. I'm not going to try to correct all of it, just noting the fact. Kalkin 00:35, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, it has a clear pareconist view, wich is not the position of many in the anarchist movement (to wich pareconists contestedly belong).

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.235.193.58 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 2 Jul 2006 (UTC) J

Just a note, there is a tendency in this article and on this talk page to conflate the worker-coordinator-owner class theory with Parecon because the Pareconists have been the most vocal with it in the west. that's a false conflation, however. it actually originated with dissident anti-soviet activists in the ussr who wanted to keep socialism but overthrow the dictatorship, they were sort of post-marxist-but-not-necessarily-anarchist in orientation. Unfortunately, i don't have a citeable source for this. One of my Profs grew up in russia and was a party member there until he got a book from a friend which was circulating in the underground press and which made this argument. as he tells the story reading this book and realizing a second revolution would be needed to save socialism from the dictatorship was a major part of the process that led to him eventually fleeing to the west. i think it's still appropriate to list this theory primarily relevant to anarchists, however, because i don't know of any marxist organizations that have picked it up and i've heard it thrown around quite a lot in anarchist circles lately, not just by pareconists. just a random tidbit that might be of interest... if anyone who speaks russian wants to look for the original work on the topic that'd be awesome, my searches in english thus far have (predictably) turned up precisely nada. Anarchocelt 20:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

 * See the article New Class for Soviety-style society inspired concepts of a managerial class, as developed by communists. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:18, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

state section = POV
The section describing views of the state is seriously biased towards anarchism/against Marxism. There are a number of language-strength issues, and space allocation issues, and there is a tendency to conflate all Marxist views with Leninism, or even with Stalinism - Marxists of course agree that the state is an instrument of class rule (contra this article, so do some anarchists), but have widely varying views on its relationship to the revolutionary process. I don't have time to fix it at the moment but I'm putting the POV tag until I do. Kalkin 05:46, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Other axes of oppression
I cut the following paragraphs:
 * The Marxist class analysis has consequences for how Marxists relate to the liberation movements of groups such as women, indigenous peoples, ethnic minorities, and cultural minorities (such as homosexuals). Marxists support such liberation movements, not only because they are worthy in and of themselves, but also on the grounds that they are necessary for a working-class revolution, which cannot succeed without unity.  However, Marxists believe that attempts by oppressed people to liberate themselves will fail to achieve their full aims unless they are organized along class lines, because the bourgeois within each oppressed group will beyond a certain point betray its struggle, and because under capitalism, social power rests at the point of production.

 * Anarchists and others criticize Marxists for giving class priority in this way and in explaining the causes of historical change, arguing that to do so denigrates other oppressions, which operate with their own independent dynamics. Anarchists see all liberation movements by oppressed people as fundamentally legitimate, be they "proletarians", "peasants", or others, without needing to fit these movements into a predetermined schema for revolution. However, this position is not the only one throughout the anarchist movement, many anarchists believe that single issue struggles are extremely limited in their scope altough they participate (as Marxists do) in them, trying to advance their positions and methods in an anarchist way.

This crummy multiple-axes-of-oppression argument is in fact often lobbed against Marxists, but in my experience more often by liberals than by anarchists. In fact a lot of Anarcho-Syndicalist and -Communist groups are a lot more rigid in their adherence to class-only analysis than Marxist parties. In absence of any citations, I'm cutting. Bacchiad 13:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm putting it back. I've heard it from anarchists personally, but better, I've got a citation. Michael Albert, certainly one of the most prominent anarchist theorists, makes precisely this criticism in his debate with Alex Callinicos here. -

Please note that many anarchists (historically, both well known militants as well as organizations) disagree with Alberts. That is why I added: "However, this position is not the only one throughout the anarchist movement, many anarchists believe that single issue struggles are extremely limited in their scope altough they participate (as Marxists do) in them, trying to advance their positions and methods in an anarchist way." I would also like to add at the end "towards classist and revolutionary positions" If you agree, add it.

You can check anarkismo.net to see that class struggle anarchists, anarchocommunistss and plataformists share this view, and that they have been the majority of anarchists (the CNT in the thirties in Spain, the FORA in the first decades of the twentieth century in Argentina, and many more). Its numerical, political and historical weight should not be ignored (we are talking about hundreds of thousands of adherents and many important insurrections). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.235.193.58 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 5 Jul 2006 (UTC)

 * I'll take your word for it; your changes are fine.
 * I'm a Marxist, myself, and therefore know more about Marxism, and therefore have primarily edited the article to improve its description of Marxism. Before I started, it essentially equated Marxism with a Stalinoid caricature of Leninism.  I noticed that it seemed to equate anarchism with the theories of Michael Albert, but I thought maybe some of his coordinator stuff was just more traditional among anarchists than I knew.  I'm glad you've been working on correcting that. Kalkin 04:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * In Latin America is to the best of my knowledge, non existant (Parecon, anarchism is a growing movement and many of its methods and ideas have influenced social movements -unemployed workers movements, workers organizations in general-, altough without the clarity and coherence that they could). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.235.193.58 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 14 Jul 2006 (UTC)

"I am not a Marxist"
I don't understand how this was a rejection of determinism? I found the full quote to be "If this is Marxism, than all I know is that I am not a Marxist." But this doesn't illuminate the point any more for me. Cheers, Tompsci 23:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

For example, shortly before he died in 1883, Marx wrote a letter to the French workers' leader Jules Guesde and to his own son-in-law Paul Lafargue, both of whom claimed to represent Marxist principles, in which he accused them of "revolutionary phrase-mongering" and of denying the value of reformist struggles[1]. Paraphrasing Marx: "If that is Marxism, then I am not a Marxist". As the American Marx scholar Hal Draper remarked, "there are few thinkers in modern history whose thought has been so badly misrepresented, by Marxists and anti-Marxists alike.
 * From the page on Marxism, this quote doesn't really say anything explicitly about determinism, am I missing something? Cheers, Tompsci 15:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is old, but... the quote has been read as a rejection of "Second International" Marxism, which included determinism. That's disputed, of course.  I don't have time to try to reword it right now, and the article has much larger problems; the section on nationalism and indigenous peoples is really terrible.  It seems to have been written by an anarchist who doesn't know much about Marxism, has some very strange ideas about the history of the USSR and its foreign policy, and has some trouble with English.  Kalkin 00:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

This page is messed up needs a complete overhaul
Almost nothing in this page is factual, its a completely biased argument against and distortion of marxism. This isn't your high school class project this is an encyclopedia. There is no Neutral Point of view.
 * Could you be more specific? I wasn't involved in writing the article, but found it interesting, Tompsci 12:10, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I didn't make the original comment, but I agree with it. For the record:
 * Almost nothing is directly sourced.
 * The discussion of theory is rambling and without logical structure, appearing to consist entirely of sections thrown in separately by random persons, each of whom thought she had found the decisive argument for Marxism or anarchism, which needed its own unique paragraph-long exposition.
 * There's no flow to the article, nor is there any consistency in its implicit definitions of anarchism and Marxism.
 * Most of the history, especially of the Russian Civil War, is written from a decidedly anarchist perspective.
 * Through the article there are a helluva lot more quotes from anarchists, mostly Bakunin, than Marxists.
 * The whole section on indigenous peoples makes no effort to hide its anarchist point of view.
 * Kalkin (talk) 18:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Given that this is a subsection of a larger whole, a series on Marxism, it would seem odd if the anarchist perspective was not emphasised. For Marxists, "unbiased" and "neutral" apparently means the omission of all viewpoints unfavourable to Marxism. If this entry was made neutral in the sense that Marxists define neutrality, there would be no mention of indigenous people or industrialisation, for instance. I think Graeber's distinction between Marxism and Anarchism is spot on in the sense that Marxists really do seem to avoid ethical discussion (about real human beings) and instead concentrate on tinkering with theories and alienated abstractions. Ilmateur (talk) 14:39, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

NPOV dispute
I've come to this article from the backlog of articles with NPOV disputes. I have some comments:

 * Articles to be expanded? Hmm. The article reads like an essay that someone has padded out to reach a set word count, or as if the author was going to get credit for each aspect of the A./M. relationship s/he could think of.

 * There's no point in tagging every single section as NPOV. Why not tag the whole article and remove the section tags. Are you really arguing about the Further reading?

 * If the article were referenced properly, i.e. sentence by sentence, then the NPOV issues could be resolved.

 * Why not agree on a To-do list, and then start working through it?

This is meant in a friendly way. Your efforts with the article are appreciated. Itsmejudith 20:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

History
As written, this article covers very little of the common history of anarchism and Marxism; it doesn't cover the linked origins of the two movements or the split between Proudhon and Marx. What can we do about this? Jacob Haller 18:10, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

"Terrorism"
Someone changed my phrase "small-scale terrorism" (followed later by a reference to "propaganda of the deed") to "propaganda of the deed". For the record, "terrorism" is the most technical and accurate term, here. It's "propaganda of the deed" that's more subjective. But I understand that "terrorism" has become such a distorted term in the modern world (particularly here in the US) that some (the one who changed it or the readers) might not even know what it means anymore, so I'll relent. --MQDuck 17:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, the term's usually used to refer to "the other side's actions," but where applied consistently, it is often used to refer to military attacks on uninvolved civilians. Politicians, the main targets of PotD, have more responsibility for their government's actions than soldiers or mercenaries do, so I'm not sure how people could consider them uninvolved civilians. Jacob Haller 18:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Marxism
It seems to me that many references of conflict between the Anarchist and Marxist seem to be using the USSR under Stalin as example. Can we really call Stalin a Marxist? He did not follow the teachings of Marx, so I think those examples are unfounded and misleading to an uninformed reader. FrankPalmerWhite 12:24, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Working Class movements?
The opening paragraph states: As working class movements Marxism and anarchism have been sometime allied and sometimes opposed groups. Is that really - both movements were started and largely dominated by middle (and upper) class intellectuals - neither can truely be described as "working class"! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.132.127.177 (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A simplistic stereotype. Both movements, particularly Marxism, have had a history of working class involvement, particularly in industrialised Western nations with an established proletariat, much as the efforts of Marxism in these has often over-shadowed by Marxism originally unindustrialised nations in the eyes of popular history. In the Cold War era, granted, the movements were often lessened in significance, meaning that only middle-class academics remained as significant spokespersons, but that only represents the last third of the history of each movement, nor does it imply that they actually became middle class movements. Furthermore, both movements have always aligned themselves with the working class and sought to further what they see as the cause of the working class cause, and did so in contradiction to middle and upper class privilege, so the personal origins of certain member is not relevant in describing the movement as a whole, nor does it describe any innate property of the movement. Traitorfish 05:01, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

"A simplistic stereotype. Both movements, particularly Marxism, have had a history of working class involvement," you commit the same fallacy here, completely subjective, I could argue the same for anarchism easilly, all the anarchist revolutions were leaderless for one thing, how can you be more working class then that (as opposed to the hierachal bolsheviks)? 109.76.169.130 (talk) 05:31, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

The origins of both Marx (Marxism) and Bakunin (anarchism) are one and the same. The origin of both can be traced to the extremist wing of the Socialist movement of the first half of 1800s. This extreme wing was led de facto by Prodhon, and hovered around the Communist movement in terms of ethical principles--abolition of private property, and "from everyone according to his ability, to everyone according t his needs." This extreme wing suffered a split as Marx, another extreme Socialist, and Engels deciding to join the organisation of the Communist called League of the Just. The Prodhonists did not join the Communists but evolved in time as Communists themselves, and Bakunin came to the leading position. By the time, the Communist League was dissolved, and Marx and his followers became an independent loose grouping. When the International Wokingmen's Association was formed, Marx group was a leading constituent of it, and then the Bakuninist anarchists also joined in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.135.73 (talk) 11:51, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

= quote from graeber =

The following quote reduces and simplifies the two, no?

"Anarchist anthropologist David Graeber has distinguished the two philosophies as follows: Marxism has tended to be a theoretical or analytical discourse about revolutionary strategy. Anarchism has tended to be an ethical discourse about revolutionary practice."

I can't speak say anything about anarchism but marxism is much more than simply concerned with revolutionary practice. In four volumes of Marx's Capital, there is not a single section or chapter that outlines anything of that sort. marxist thought is applied to so many different fields including political theory, empirical economic theory, humanist studies, aesthetic theory, anthropology, archaeology, history, sociology, geography, etc. I think one of the LAST things marxism is, is a guide to or analysis of revolutionary practice or even about capitalist revolution in general. Most of Marx's writings and many marxists after him were concerned with critiquing capitalism, its organisation, structure, history, etc and not about things the working class have to do in order to overthrow the system. You could argue that a majority of marx's writings as well as marxist writings, from all sects, are not concerned with revolutionary strategy but rather with examining, analysing, evaluating and assessing the system, conditions and circumstances of different classes within it and so on. Even if you go ahead and cite Graeber, I think the quote should be supplemented with a reference to a body of literature that discusses theoretical/analysitcal marxist concern with revlutionary strategy. The only example I can think of, and it's not a very good one, is the International Workingman's Association and their internationalist rhetoric and support for global trade unionisation.

There are only 5 references in this entire article! Who is writing this article, I mean seriously. And there's not a single mention of the ideas of Proudhon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.68.252 (talk) 23:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

= marxists on the state =

"Marxism has a unique definition of the state: that the state is an organ of one class's repression of all other classes. To Marxists, any state is intrinsically a dictatorship by one class over all others. Therefore, within Marxist theory, should the differentiation between classes disappear, so too will the state."

Too many sweeping generalisations in this article and a total neglect for the Miliband-Poulantzas debate. For such an important topic, very little effort seems to have been put into it all. Marxists do not say the state is intrinsically a dictatorship by one class over all others. This is ridiculous. You are confusing and mixing up a whole body of Marxist literature with different views on the state here. It was Miliband's argument which conceived the state as an instrument of the capitalist class. He held a voluntarist theory of class struggle which saw the only limits to the articulation of state power as residing in popular resistance. Nicos Poulantza, another Marxist which our author seems to have overlooked and mixed up with Miliband, argued the state has a degree of autonomy and specificity of the state in relation to both the economy and class actors (Clarke, 1991). Then there is the so called state derivation debate of the 70s which rejected both approaches, instead examining the 'internal relation' between capitalism and the state. Elmar Alvater sought to 'derive' categories of the political from analysis of the economy. Then there's the postmarxist structuralists (e.g. Michael Aglietta and Alain Lipietz) which advanced tte functionalist argument that a regime of accumulation required a corresponding mode of regulation in the interests of stable accumulation. And then theres the Parisian regulationists state theorists such as Bob Jessop and Joachim Hirch who sought to establish a relation between the relatively autonomous instances of the economic and political through the reformulation of state theory. There's also the poststructuralist Marxist turn of the 80-s -- neo-Gramscian school in International Political Economy (.e.g Robert Cox who sought to overcome economistic and structuralist marxisms through a gramscian inspired historicism and humanism. Then there's the open marxism which sees the state as 'arguably the site where the difference between structuralist and dialectical/criticial (that is 'open) Marxsism emerges mostly clear'y (Bonefeld et al., 1992, pp.xxi, xv).

I'd suggest reading the Elgar Companion of Marxist Economics (2012) and the chapter on the state for a brief overview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.68.252 (talk) 00:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

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TNT
As was written on this talk page a decade ago, the article remains unsourced, and its few references are primary/unreliable sources. The topic would need a complete rewrite, so I'm taking the bold move of redirecting it to an existing summary of the subject. Anyone is welcome to rewrite this article from scratch, though it would need to have reliable, secondary source references to meet the WP principle of verifiability. czar 16:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Anarchism and Marxism


text:
Lagaan

Lagaan: Once Upon a Time in India, or simply Lagaan, is a 2001 Indian Hindi-language epic period musical sports drama film written and directed by Ashutosh Gowariker. The film was produced by Aamir Khan, who stars alongside debutant Gracy Singh and British actors Rachel Shelley and Paul Blackthorne. Set in 1893, during the late Victorian period of British colonial rule in India, the film follows the inhabitants of a village in Central India, who, burdened by high taxes and several years of drought, are challenged by an arrogant British Indian Army officer to a game of cricket as a wager to avoid paying the taxes they owe. The villagers face the arduous task of learning a game that is alien to them and play for a victory.

Produced on a budget of inr 250000000, Lagaan was the most expensive Indian film at the time of its release. It faced multiple challenges during production: Khan was initially skeptical to star in a sports film, and later, prospective producers called for budget cuts and script modifications. Eventually, the film would become the maiden project of Aamir Khan Productions, and mark Khan's foray into film production. Gowariker was inspired by aspects of the sports drama Naya Daur (1957) in developing the film. The language featured in the film was based on Awadhi, but was diluted with standard Hindi for modern audiences. Principal photography took place in villages near Bhuj. Nitin Chandrakant Desai served as art director, while Bhanu Athaiya was the costume designer. The original soundtrack was composed by A. R. Rahman, with lyrics written by Javed Akhtar.

Lagaan was theatrically released in India on 15 June 2001, clashing with Gadar: Ek Prem Katha. It received widespread critical acclaim for Gowariker's direction, Khan's performance, dialogues, soundtrack, and the film's anti-imperialist stance. With earnings of inr 659700000 during its initial release, the film was the third highest-grossing Hindi film of 2001. Lagaan was screened at numerous international film festivals and garnered multiple accolades. It was the third, and as of 2024 the last, Indian film to be nominated for the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film after Mother India (1957) and Salaam Bombay! (1988). Lagaan became the most-awarded film at the 47th Filmfare Awards with eight wins, including Best Film, Best Director for Gowariker and Best Actor for Khan. At the 49th National Film Awards, the film won eight awards, including Best Popular Film.

Plot
The farmers of the village of Champaner live under the oppressive and racist British rule in the Central India Agency, paying land tax (lagaan) every year to the British. Due to lack of rain, they haven't been able to pay the full taxes the previous year, and are told to pay double lagaan for the current year. Upset by this unfair taxation, they ask the king, Raja Puran Singh, for an exemption from the lagaan. They interrupt a cricket match underway between British officers, and one of their party, a farmer named Bhuvan, insults their game. This provokes the regiment captain, Andrew Russell, who offers a wager: in exchange for the farmers beating the British at cricket, Russell offers to cancel lagaan for the next three years for Champaner and the entire province if the farmers win. But if they lose, they will have to pay triple the usual lagaan. Bhuvan is made to decide for the village and agrees to the bet.

Russell's actions infuriate his superiors, who state that if he loses, he'll pay the triple lagaan himself and be transferred to Africa. The match is scheduled to take place after three months. Bhuvan begins to enlist support for the match amongst the villagers, and is aided by Elizabeth, Russell's sister, who offers to teach them the game. Other villagers are motivated to join, but one of them, Lakha, only does so out of a grudge against Bhuvan. Lakha secretly schemes with Russell to play against his team in the match. He also informs Russell of Elizabeth's actions to help the farmers. Russell tries to restrict Elizabeth's movement out of the cantonment, but she stands up to him. Elizabeth has fallen for Bhuvan who is in love with Gauri, daughter of the village medic.

The day of the match dawns and the cantonment grounds fill with spectators. The match will be played over three days, and the British choose to bat first, meaning that the farmers must score one run more than them to win (see: Rules of cricket). Due to Lakha's sabotage, the British team does well on the first day. Later that night, the farmers learn about Lakha's betrayal from Elizabeth and attack him. Bhuvan confronts Lakha, who apologises and offers to redeem himself. Bhuvan agrees, and the following day, the British innings ends after they score 322; the farmers have to score 323 runs to win the game.

The farmers' innings starts off with promise, but they lose almost all of their best batters by the end of the day. Bhuvan must steady the innings on the third day to keep them in the game. The match enters the final over, and odds are stacked against the farmers as they need five runs off the last ball. Bhuvan, taking strike due to a no ball, hits six runs off the last ball to win the match. The crowd erupts in celebration, and their joy is doubled when clouds gather and it starts raining. Elizabeth sees Bhuvan and Gauri together, and heartbreakingly realises the truth.

Unable to bear the defeat, the British regiment leaves the province and Champaner, delighting the villagers. Captain Russell is transferred to Africa as punishment for his team's loss. Elizabeth says a heartfelt goodbye to all the villagers, and returns to England, never marrying and keeping Bhuvan in her heart. Bhuvan marries Gauri in a ceremony blessed by Raja Puran Singh himself, and the village of Champaner attains a prestigious status.

Cast

 * Aamir Khan as Bhuvan (captain and all-rounder)
 * Gracy Singh as Gauri
 * Rachel Shelley as Elizabeth Russell
 * Paul Blackthorne as Captain Andrew Russell
 * Suhasini Mulay as Yashoda Maa, Bhuvan's mother
 * Kulbhushan Kharbanda as Raja Puran Singh Chawla
 * Rajendra Gupta as Mukhiya Ji, the village chieftain
 * Raghubir Yadav as Bhura (fielder)
 * Rajesh Vivek as Guran (all-rounder)
 * Raj Zutshi as Ismail (batsman)
 * Pradeep Rawat as Deva Singh Sodhi (all-rounder)
 * Akhilendra Mishra as Arjan (batsman), the blacksmith
 * Daya Shankar Pandey as Goli (seamer), the man with the largest piece of land
 * Shrivallabh Vyas as Ishwar (wicket-keeper), the vaidya (doctor) in the village and Gauri's father
 * Yashpal Sharma as Lakha (batsman), the woodcutter
 * Amin Hajee as Bagha (batsman), the mute drummer
 * Aditya Lakhia as Kachra (spinner)
 * Javed Khan as Ram Singh, Indian who works with British and helps Elizabeth in translating villagers language
 * A. K. Hangal as Shambu Kaka
 * Amin Gazi as Tipu
 * John Rowe as Colonel Boyer
 * David Gant as Major Warren
 * Thor Halland as Captain Roberts
 * Jeremy Child as Major Cotton
 * Chris England as Lt Yardley, an English fast bowler. England also wrote a book about his experience making the film titled Balham to Bollywood
 * Howard Lee as Lt Burton, English wicketkeeper batsman
 * Ben Nealon as Lt Patrick Smith, Deputy and English all-rounder
 * Simon Holmes as Lt Brookes, an English batsman
 * Ray Eves as Lt Willis, an English fast bowler
 * Jon House as Lt North, an English batsman
 * Neil Patrick as Lt Harrisson, an English all-rounder
 * Jamie Whitby Coles as Lt Wesson, an English all-rounder
 * Barry Hart as Lt Benson, an English spinner
 * Travis Head as Lt Flynn, an English batsman
 * Amitabh Bachchan as narrator

Development
Lagaan was inspired by Naya Daur (1957), a sports drama film directed by B. R. Chopra, written by Akhtar Mirza and Kamil Rashid, and starring Dilip Kumar, Vyjayanthimala and Ajit Khan.

Director Gowariker has stated that it was almost impossible to make Lagaan. He went to Khan, who agreed to participate after hearing the detailed script. Khan had initially rejected the idea of a "sporty" film, but was "himself in tears" upon hearing the full dialogued script. Even after securing Khan, Gowariker had trouble finding a producer. Producers who showed interest in the script wanted budget cuts as well as script modifications. Eventually, Khan agreed to Gowariker's suggestion that he would produce the film. Khan corroborated this by saying that the faith he had in Gowariker, the story and script of the film, and the opportunity of starting his own production company inspired him to produce Lagaan. He also said that by being a producer himself, he was able to give greater creative freedom to Gowariker. He cited an example: "'If the director tells the producer that he wants 50 camels, the latter will probably say, 'Why not 25? Can't you manage with 25 camels?' Whereas, if he is telling me the same thing... I will not waste time asking him questions because I am also creatively aware why he needs them.'"

Jhamu Sughand co-produced the film because he liked the emotional and patriotic story. Lagaan was made on a then-unprecedented budget of ₹250 million (US$5.32 million), the highest for an Indian film of the time.

Casting
Gowariker first thought of Shah Rukh Khan, Bobby Deol, Hrithik Roshan and Abhishek Bachchan for the role of Bhuvan. After Bachchan chose to enter cinema with J. P. Dutta's Refugee (2000), Khan was approached with the idea.

Several actresses had express interest to act in the female lead role in the film, but Khan needed someone who matched the description of the character given in the script. After considering Rani Mukerji who did not have dates to accommodate the film, Sonali Bendre, Nandita Das, Shamita Shetty and Ameesha Patel were approached for the role, Gowariker selected Singh for the female lead because he was convinced that she was a good actress and dancer and resembled actress Vyjayanthimala. Singh, a newcomer, devoted all her time to the film. Since the script also demanded a British cast, Gowariker and Khan hired Danielle Roffe as one of the casting directors. After Danielle and Gowariker screen-tested many, Shelley and Blackthorne were chosen for the prime roles. Overall, the film cast 15 foreign actors.

Raghubir Yadav played the role of the legendary Haji Nasruddin in the teleplay Mullah Nasiruddin and has given many memorable performances such as Mungerilal Ke Haseen Sapne. Yadav was selected for the role of Bhura, a poultry farmer, based on his performance in Earth (1998). He had undergone an appendectomy during the filming schedule and returned to complete some of his scenes. Rajesh Vivek, who played the fortune teller Guran, was spotted by Gowariker in the film Junoon (1978). His liking for cricket helped him in his role. Raj Zutshi's friendship with Khan and association in several films brought him the role of Ismail the potter after auditions. Pradeep Rawat's association with Khan in Sarfarosh (1999) brought him the role of Deva, a Sikh ex-sepoy, which was initially intended for Mukesh Rishi. Rawat claimed that it was the highest ever compensation he received in his career. Daya Shankar Pandey, who preferred the role of Kachra, was known to Khan and Gowariker through previous films (Pehla Nasha (1993), Baazi (1995) and Ghulam (1998)). Pandey credited Gowariker for his acting in the film as Goli, saying that Gowariker and he would discuss the required emotions and expressions before shooting.

Yashpal Sharma was chosen by Gowariker for the role of Lakha, the woodcutter, after his portrayal in Samar (1999). He said it was a good experience working with Khan and Gowariker during the film. Amin Hajee earlier worked in a film with Gowariker. The friendly association brought Gowariker to him with the script, which he liked, and thereafter he successfully auditioned for his role of Bagha, a mute drummer. His knowledge of mute people and some assistance from a music band helped him better prepare for his role. Gowariker, who believed that Amin was like Sylvester Stallone, would refer to him as Stallone during filming. Aditya Lakhia's association with Gowariker in Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa (1993) and Pehla Nasha (1993) brought him the role of Kachra, the untouchable. He read the book Everybody Loves a Good Drought by P. Sainath to better understand and portray his character.

Pre-production
One of the first members to join the production team was Nitin Chandrakant Desai, the art director, with whom Gowariker set out for extensive location hunt throughout India, to find the setting for the fictional town of Champaner, in late 1998. After searching through Rajasthan, Nasik, UP, they zeroed in on an ancient village near Bhuj, located in Gujarat's Kutch district, by May 1999, where the film was primarily shot.

The script demanded a dry location: an agricultural village where it had not rained in several years. To depict the 1890s era, the crew also required a village which lacked electricity, communication and automobiles. Kutch faced the same problems at that time and hence the village of Kunariya, located a few miles away from Bhuj, was chosen. During the filming of Lagaan, it did not rain at all in the region. However, a week after the shoot finished, it rained heavily bringing relief to Bhuj, which had a lean monsoon the previous year. The typical old Kutch hamlet was built by the local people four months before the arrival of the crew. The 2001 Gujarat earthquake devastated this region and displaced many locals. The crew, including the English, contributed to their cause by donating inr 250000, with further contributions during the year.

Avadhi, which is a dialect of Hindi, is primarily from a region in Uttar Pradesh. It was chosen to give the feel of the language spoken during that era. However, the language was diluted, and modern viewers can understand it. The dialogues, which were a combination of three dialects (Avadhi, Bhojpuri and Braj Bhasha) were penned by Hindi writer K. P. Saxena.

Bhanu Athaiya, who won an Oscar for her work in Gandhi (1982), was the costume designer for the film. With a large number of extras, it was difficult for her to make enough costumes. She spent a lot of time researching to lend authenticity to the characters.

Filming
The film took approximately a year to plan, which included ten months for production and one month for the development of Khan's character, which the first-time producer found tiring. Khan obtained a crew of about 300 people for six months. Due to the lack of comfortable hotels in Bhuj, he hired a newly constructed apartment and furnished it completely for the crew. Security was set up and a special housekeeping team was brought to take care of the crew's needs. Most of the 19th century tools and equipment depicted in the film were lent to the crew by the local villagers. Initially, they did not want to part with their equipment, but after much coaxing, they gave in. They then travelled to different parts of the country to collect the musical instruments used in that day and era.

During the shooting, Gowariker suffered from a slipped disc and had to rest for 30 days. During this period, he had his bed next to the monitor and continued with his work.

The filming schedule spanned the winter and summer, commencing in early January and finishing in mid-June. This was physically challenging for many, with the temperatures ranging from 0 to 50 C. The actors had to drink frequently and sit in the shade. The schedule was strict. The day began at 6 am, changing into costumes and getting onto the actors' bus, which took them to the sets in Kanuria. The actors, including Khan, all travelled on the same bus. If anyone missed it, it was up to them to reach the sets. One day, Khan was late and missed the actors' bus. That day, his wife Reena, the executive producer, reprimanded him for being late. She told him he had to set an example for the rest of the crew. "If he started coming late, how could she tell the others to come on time?" While on the sets, the actors were given call sheets with the day's timetable such as breakfast, hairstyling, make-up, costumes, etc.

Release
Before its worldwide release, Khan kept a promise to screen the film to the locals of Bhuj. Lagaan clashed with Anil Sharma's Gadar: Ek Prem Katha, starring Sunny Deol and Ameesha Patel, at the box-office. The film made it to the UK Top 10 after its commercial release. It was the first Indian film to have a nationwide release in China and had its dubbed version released in Italy. With favorable reviews from the French press, Lagaan premiered in Paris on 26 June 2002 and continued to have an unprecedented nine weeks of screening with over 45,000 people watching. It was released in the United States, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, South Africa and the Middle East with respective vernacular subtitles. The film took a cumulative of $2.5 million at the international box-office and inr 380000000 at the domestic box-office.

In 2001, Lagaan had a world premiere at the International Indian Film Academy Awards (IIFA) weekend in Sun City, South Africa. The Locarno International Film Festival authorities published the rules of cricket before the film was screened to a crowd which reportedly danced to its soundtrack in the aisles. Lagaan was shown 4 times due to public demand as against the usual norm of showcasing films once at the festival. It subsequently won the Prix du Public Award at the festival. After the film's publicity in Locarno, the director, Gowariker said that distributors from Switzerland, Italy, France, Netherlands, North Africa, Finland and Germany were wanting to purchase the distribution rights. Special screenings were held in Russia, where people were keen to watch the film after its Oscar nomination.

Apart from these screenings, it was shown at the Sundance Film Festival, Cairo International Film Festival, Stockholm International Film Festival, Helsinki Film Festival and the Toronto International Film Festival. The film is available on Netflix.

Home media
There were two releases for the DVD. The first, as a 2-DVD set, was released on 27 May 2002 in limited regions. It contained subtitles in Arabic, English, Hebrew, Hindi, Turkish and several European languages. It is available in 16:9 Anamorphic widescreen, Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround, progressive 24 frame/s, widescreen and NTSC format. It carried an additional fifteen minutes of deleted scenes, filmographies and trailers.

The second was released as anniversary edition 3-disc DVD box after 6 years of the theatrical release. This also included Chale Chalo which was a documentary on the making of Lagaan, a curtain-raiser on the making of the soundtrack, deleted scenes, trailers, along with other collectibles such as 11 collector cards, a collectible Lagaan coin embossed with the character of Bhuvan, a 35 mm CinemaScope filmstrip hand-cut from the film's filmstrip were bundled with the film. After its release, it became the highest-selling DVD in India, beating Sholay (1975). Chale Chalo – The Lunacy of Film Making, won the National Film Award for Best Exploration/Adventure Film.

A comic book, Lagaan: The Story, along with 2 colouring books, a mask book and a cricket board game were subsequently released to the commercial market. The comic book, available in English and Hindi, was targeted at children between the ages of 6 and 14. At the book's launch, Aamir Khan said that they were keen to turn the film into a comic strip during the pre-production phase itself.

In March 2002, a book titled The Spirit of Lagaan – The Extraordinary Story of the Creators of a Classic was published. It covers the making of the film, describing in detail the setbacks and obstacles that the crew faced while developing the film from concept to its release.

Box office
The film initially grossed inr 659700000 worldwide in 2001. This made it the third highest-grossing Hindi film of 2001, behind Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham... and Gadar: Ek Prem Katha.

Domestically, Lagaan grossed inr 551300000 in India. Its domestic net income was ₹34.31 crore, equivalent to ₹187 crore (US$million) when adjusted for inflation.

With an overseas gross of ₹10.84 crore (US$2.2 million) in 2001, it was the year's second highest-grossing Indian film overseas, preceded only by Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham.... Lagaan's overseas gross included £600,000 in the United Kingdom, US$910,000 in the United States and Canada, and US$180,000 in the Arab states of the Persian Gulf.

In China, where the film released on 16 May 2003, it grossed ¥3million, equivalent to ₹ 1.71crore (US$362,500).

Including the film's China collections, the film's total worldwide gross was ₹67.68 crore (US$14.533 million). At a ticket inflation rate of 5.5 times in 2016, the film's total gross is equivalent to approximately ₹372 crore (US$million) when adjusted for inflation in 2016.

Critical reception
Lagaan was met with critical acclaim.

Sudish Kamath of The Hindu suggested that "the movie is not just a story. It is an experience. An experience of watching something that puts life into you, that puts a cheer on your face, however depressed you might be." The Times of India wrote, "Lagaan has all the attractions of big-sounding A. R. Rahman songs, excellent performances by Aamir Khan... and a successful debut for pretty Gracy Singh. In addition, there is the celebrated David vs. Goliath cricket match, which has the audiences screaming and clapping."

Roger Ebert, writing for the Chicago Sun-Times, gave the film 3.5 out of 4 stars and wrote, "Lagaan is an enormously entertaining movie, like nothing we've ever seen before, and yet completely familiar... At the same time, it's a memory of the films we all grew up on, with clearly-defined villains and heroes, a love-triangle, and even a comic character who saves the day. Lagaan is a well-crafted, hugely entertaining epic that has the spice of a foreign culture." Derek Elley of Variety suggested that it "could be the trigger for Bollywood's long-awaited crossover to non-ethnic markets". Somni Sengupta of The New York Times, described it as "a carnivalesque genre packed with romance, swordplay and improbable song-and-dance routines". Dave Kehr, another New York Times film critic, called Lagaan "a movie that knows its business -- pleasing a broad, popular audience -- and goes about it with savvy professionalism and genuine flair." Kevin Thomas of the Los Angeles Times argued that the film is "an affectionate homage to a popular genre that raises it to the level of an art film with fully drawn characters, a serious underlying theme, and a sophisticated style and point of view."

Peter Bradshaw of The Guardian described the film as "a lavish epic, a gorgeous love story, and a rollicking adventure yarn. Larger than life and outrageously enjoyable, it's got a dash of Spaghetti Western, a hint of Kurosawa, with a bracing shot of Kipling." Kuljinder Singh of the BBC stated that "Lagaan is anything but standard Bollywood fodder, and is the first must-see of the Indian summer. A movie that will have you laughing and crying, but leaving with a smile."

Lagaan was listed as #14 on Channel 4's "50 Films To See Before You Die" and was the only Indian film to be listed. The film was also well-received in China, where its themes resonated with Chinese audiences. It was ranked #55 in Empire magazine's "The 100 Best Films of World Cinema" in 2010. In 2011, John Nugent of the Trenton Independent called the film "a masterpiece ... and what better way to learn a bit about India's colonial experience! History and great entertainment, all rolled into one (albeit long) classic film."

Awards
Khan and Gowariker went to Los Angeles to generate publicity for the Academy Awards. Khan said, "We just started showing it to whoever we could, even the hotel staff." About India's official entry to the 2002 Oscars, The Daily Telegraph wrote, "A Bollywood film that portrays the British in India as ruthless sadists and Mafia-style crooks has been chosen as Delhi's official entry to the Academy Awards." It added that the film was expected to win the nomination.

On 12 February 2002, Lagaan was nominated for the best foreign language film at the Academy Award nominations ceremony. After the nomination, Khan reacted by saying, "To see the name of the film and actually hear it being nominated was very satisfying". Post-nomination reactions poured in from several parts of the world. USA Today wrote "Hooray for Bollywood, and India's Lagaan". With Sony Pictures Classics distributing the film and Oscar-winning director Baz Luhrmann praising it, Lagaan had a chance to win. The BBC commented that the nomination raised Bollywood hopes that Indian films would become more popular in the US. In India, the nomination was celebrated with news reports about a win bringing in "a great boost for the Indian film industry" and "a Bharat Ratna for Aamir Khan and the status of a 'national film' for Lagaan".

When Lagaan lost the award to the Bosnian film No Man's Land, there was disappointment in India. Khan said, "Certainly we were disappointed. But the thing that really kept us in our spirits was that the entire country was behind us." Filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt criticised the "American film industry" as "insular and the foreign category awards were given just for the sake of it." Gowariker added that "Americans must learn to like our films".

The film won a number of awards at Indian award ceremonies including eight National Film Awards, eight Filmfare Awards, eight Screen Awards and 10 IIFA Awards. Apart from these major awards, it also won awards at other national and international ceremonies.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Lagaan


text:
Philip Delaporte

Reverend Philip Adam Delaporte (c. 1868 – November 1928) was a German-born American Protestant missionary who ran a mission on Nauru with his wife from 1899 until 1915. During this time he translated numerous texts from German into Nauruan including the Bible and a hymnal. He was also one of the first to create a written form for the Nauruan dialect, published in a Nauruan-German dictionary.

Early life
Delaporte was born in Worms, Germany, c. 1868. At the age of 14, he immigrated to the United States. After being ordained, Delaporte worked on Butaritari with support from the Elim Mission in Los Angeles, California, U.S.

Delaporte and his wife, Salome, also a missionary, had five children. The eldest daughter was born in the U.S. The others, Paul, Mabel, Phiip, and Margaret, were born on Nauru. They were thought to be among the first white children born in the Marshall Islands.

Missionary
Germany annexed Nauru in 1888 as part of its Imperial German Pacific Protectorate, and German government administrators arrived in 1906, after the discovery of phosphate on the island. A Gilbertese pastor named Tabuia had founded the Nauru mission approximately 10 years before the Delaporte family's arrival, but withdrew in 1892 at the request of the German government, leaving a small core of Nauruan Christians.

Delaporte and his family were sent to Nauru in 1899 by the Central Union Church of Honolulu to work under the auspices of the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions in Micronesia. They took over management of the mission and its associated school, the only formal educational institution on the island. Delaporte gained the trust of the Nauruans by carrying out medical work (because there was no doctor) and by teaching. The school taught reading, writing, arithmetic, geography, German, singing, and Bible history.

The Delaportes encouraged the Nauruans to dress in a more Western style including Mother Hubbard dresses, singlets (sleeveless shirt or vest), and Lavalavas (simple skirt). Polygyny was no longer allowed and traditional Nauruan dances were discouraged.

When the Pacific Phosphate Company gained control of phosphate mining on Nauru in 1906, Delaporte was able to take advantage of the company's informal connections with the London Missionary Society (LMS) to benefit the mission. For example, the LMS assisted in acquiring printing machinery in Sydney, Australia, and the machinery was shipped to Nauru in cooperation with the mining company.

German to Nauruan translations
In 1907, Delaporte published a pocket German-Nauruan dictionary, Taschenwörterbuch Deutsch-Nauru (German-Nauruan Dictionary). The book contained an orthography, developed by Delaporte, consisting of 32 characters: b, p, d, t, g, k, q, j, r, w, m, n, ñ, c, f, h, l, s, z, i, e, a, à, â, o, ò, ô, ö, u, ù, û, and ü. The dictionary was nearly 100 pages, with 65 devoted to a glossary and a dozen to alphabetically arranged phrases in German and Nauruan. About 1650 German words appear in the dictionary, along with about 1300 'unique' Nauruan forms (excluding diacritical marks).

With help from his wife and a Nauruan named Timothy Detudamo, Delaporte translated many religious texts from German to Nauruan including the Bible, a catechism, a hymn book, a history of the Christian Church, and a book designed for use in the school. In 1915, when Delaporte returned to the U.S., he brought with him manuscript copies of the Bible and a hymnal in Nauruan. With assistance from Detudamo, who had accompanied Delaporte, these were published by the American Board press.

Leaving Nauru
The Delaportes returned to the United States several times during their tenure in Nauru, to work on publication of Philip's translations and to visit their children who were in school in the U.S. They visited Boston in 1907, and in 1911 they went on furlough because Salome Delaporte was in poor health.

In 1914, control of Nauru switched to Great Britain. Also in 1914, the Missionary Herald printed a letter that Delaporte wrote early in the war in which he expressed sympathy for Germany, the country of his birth. This letter came to the attention of the British authorities on Nauru. While the Delaportes were in the U.S. in 1915, the British administrator wrote to the American Board stating that Delaporte was no longer welcome on the island. Delaporte was placed in charge of a German congregation in Muscatine, Iowa, U.S.

Delaporte died in November 1928 in Gridley, Illinois, at age 60.

title: Philip Delaporte


text:
Talk:Nauruish

Since no pages link to here, why not fold this into the 'culture' heading at Nauru? Wetman 11:41, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

We do want articles on patois and lingua francas - this just needs more work. I think it needs: what exactly it is, examples of it etc Secretlondon 11:47, Nov 28, 2003 (UTC)

Okay, but since Nauruan already redirects to Nauru language I wonder if you're doubling efforts. Wetman 11:57, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nauruish


text:
Louis I, Prince of Condé

Louis de Bourbon, 1st Prince of Condé (7 May 1530 – 13 March 1569) was a prominent Huguenot leader and general, the founder of the Condé branch of the House of Bourbon. Coming from a position of relative political unimportance during the reign of Henri II, Condé's support for the Huguenots, along with his leading role in the conspiracy of Amboise and its aftermath, pushed him to the centre of French politics. Arrested during the reign of Francis II then released upon the latter's premature death, he would lead the Huguenot forces in the first three civil wars of the French Wars of Religion before being executed after his defeat at the Battle of Jarnac in 1569.

Early life
Born in Vendôme, he was the fifth son of Charles de Bourbon, Duke of Vendôme. His mother was Françoise d'Alençon, the eldest daughter of René, Duke of Alençon, and Margaret of Lorraine. His older brother Antoine de Bourbon married Jeanne d'Albret (Queen of Navarre). Their son, Condé's nephew, became Henry IV of France. Condé's cousin through his father (who was the brother of Antoinette de Bourbon) was Mary of Guise.

Reign of Henri II
As a soldier in the French army, Condé fought at the Siege of Metz in 1552 where Francis, Duke of Guise successfully defended the city from the forces of Emperor Charles V. He, and his brother Enghien were responsible for the section of walls from Saint-Thibaut gate to the river Seille. He would also fight at the disastrous Battle of St. Quentin in 1557. Despite his military participation, neither he nor his brother would hold significant office during the reign of Henri, the king choosing instead to lavish it on his favourites Anne de Montmorency and Francis, Duke of Guise leaving Condé comparatively poor.

Death of Henri
The sudden death of Henri II changed the landscape of French politics overnight, and Condé was present at his brother's negotiations with the House of Montmorency and House of Bourbon-Montpensier as they sought to negotiate who would be the powerbroker for the young king. Ultimately the family would be outmanoeuvred by the Guise, who bought Condé off with a promise that he would receive the governorship of Picardy which his family claimed as a hereditary right, and a cash gift of 70,000 livres. Despite this bribe, opposition would grow to the new Guise administration from various factions, and Condé would find himself drawn to it. When his brother declined the Amboise conspirators' request for him to be their prince of the blood figurehead, they turned to Condé's weaker claim as a junior prince of the blood, hoping he would lead them. As rumours of a conspiracy began to reach their ears, the Guise quickly came to suspect Condé's involvement, and his governorship of Picardy failed to materialise.

Conspiracy of Amboise
In February the Guise finally had the proof of conspiracy they'd been looking for, from a conspirator who had got cold feet, and they moved the court to the secure castle of Amboise, and summoned the senior nobility to the castle including Condé, so that they might aid in the defence. As the conspirators were crushed over the following days, Condé could do little but watch from the battlements. Eager to avoid suspicion, Condé lingered at the court in the following days, angrily denouncing the rumours of his involvement that were swirling as the product of 'scum.' He followed this up by calling anyone who would accuse him a liar, a serious rebuke in aristocratic circles, and offering to duel anyone who would dare accuse him to his face. While convinced of his guilt, the duke of Guise was conscious for the moment he lacked the necessary evidence, and assured Condé that no one doubted his honour. During his reassurance, his brother, Charles, Cardinal of Lorraine studiously looked at the floor. On 18 April, while Condé was attending the King's levée, the Guise had his apartments raided for evidence, but, finding nothing, made no move against him. Very much aware of how much suspicion he was under, Condé took the opportunity to depart from court.

Lyon, arrest, release
Despite the failure of the attempt to seize the king at Amboise, disorder continued throughout the kingdom, as independent armies raised in support of the effort marauded in a guerrilla war. Condé continued to intrigue, planning to send troops to Lyon to seize the city and use it as a nucleus of opposition to the Guise. The uprising in Lyon was however discovered before it could begin, and the Guise suspicions of Condé and Navarre's involvement was seemingly confirmed when the Guise captured an agent of Condé's with papers that implicated him. Furious, and at last holding firm evidence, the brothers were invited to attend the upcoming Assembly of Notables. Conscious that they would certainly be arrested if they came, Navarre and Condé remained in the family powerbase of Vendôme. Hoping to isolate the Bourbon-Vendôme from their prince of the blood cousins, the Guise created two super-governorships controlling much of the country, giving one to Charles, Prince of La Roche-sur-Yon and the other to Louis, Duke of Montpensier. They then began assembling an army of 40000, warning the renegade brothers of what was to come if they did not present themselves at court for the Estates General of 1560-1. Possessing only 6000 foot soldiers between them, the two travelled north without a fight, and Condé was promptly arrested on 31 October.

The Guise set about arranging a trial for Condé on the charge of treason. Condé tried various methods to filibuster the proceedings, refusing to recognise the authority of his judges and demanding a trial by his peers. Despite this, he would be found guilty, and given an indeterminate prison sentence likely at the dungeons of Loches. Condé would not however languish in prison long, and soon the death of the young Francis II would sever the Guise's link to political authority, opening the way for a regency government under Catherine de Medici. Conscious that the estates might prefer Navarre's rights to the regency, Catherine used the leverage of Condé's imprisonment to buy him off, promising to release him and annul his sentence in return for his support of her governance.

Restoration to favour
Condé was released from his captivity 15 days after the death of Francis II, on 20 December 1560. Navarre argued virulently on his behalf in council, making coded implications that revolt would break out if his brother was not restored to favour. Catherine managed to get him to withdraw his threat, and he submitted his recognition of her regency, excusing himself as only wishing to protect his brother from the charges of the Guise. Condé meanwhile, on parole, was waiting up in Picardy for news related to his case, keenly desiring revenge for his prosecution. Catherine oversaw the reconciliation of Navarre and Guise, and informed them that their personal reconciliation would be valid for their whole families. This accomplished, Catherine invited Condé to court. Condé set off with a force of 600 horse, however he was ordered by Catherine to disperse his retinue and come with no more than 25 horse. He arrived at Fontainebleau on the evening of 9 March. Not quite appreciating his situation, he immediately caused an incident by saying he would refuse to meet with the king until the duke of Guise was dismissed from his presence. Eventually he agreed to meet with them on the condition he need not say anything to Guise. On 13 March Condé swore in front of the court that he had never conspired against the king and the council formally absolved him, with an ordinance by Charles denoting this fact to be registered in Parlement.

The court hoped this would be sufficient for Condé, however he remained curt with Guise, and sought a further validation of his innocence, a formal judgement from the Parlement that had convicted him, and a denunciation of his accusers. On 17 March he left Fontainebleau still threatening vengeance on his accusers and proceeded to Paris. On 1 April with a large retinue of 500 he attended a Calvinist service in the apartments of Coligny. The Parlement was consumed in its opposition to the Ordinance of Orléans and the Edict of 19 April and did not come to address the matter of Condé's guilt until 13 June, when, under pressure, it declared his innocence. Catherine used the occasion to force the Duke of Guise and Condé to reconcile publicly.

Road to civil war
The religious direction of Catherine's government increasingly isolated it among the grandees of the kingdom, with first Guise and Montmorency alienating themselves from the crown and departing court, and then Navarre entering opposition after the publishing of the landmark Edict of January. In this tense political moment, the duke of Guise, while travelling back to Paris at the request of Navarre to aid in his opposition, oversaw a massacre at Wassy. Continuing on to Paris with his retinue of 1000 men he crossed paths with Condé, accompanied by a retinue of 500, on his way back from a service in the suburbs. Catherine, conscious of the dangers of both being in the city, and angry at Guise for his troops conduct at Wassy, ordered both to vacate the city, but only Condé complied.

While Catherine appealed to Condé for support he departed to Orléans, allowing Guise to take possession of the young king and regent. There, he seized the city on 2 April, and issued a manifesto in which he denounced the "cruel and horrible carnage wrought at Vassy, in the presence of M. de Guise". Several days later the Calvinist synod in the city proclaimed him the protector of all churches in France.

Civil war
Condé's strategy was to seize strategic towns across France, and leverage them for a favourable settlement. To this end local Huguenots across France were encouraged to rise up, and successfully did so in Tours, Rouen, Montpellier and Blois among other cities. Condé failed to seize on the initial momentum however, and was in Orléans in May when Catherine sent François de Scépeaux to negotiate with him, offering the deprival of Guise and Montmorency of their offices and the sole command of the French army by his brother. Condé, confident in his position, rejected these terms, demanding instead full religious freedom for Calvinists. Catherine was unwilling to entertain these terms and withdrew the marshals.

When in June the royal army was at last assembled, it marched on Orléans, seeking to pin Condé's forces in the city. Condé, eager to avoid a siege, dispersed his forces into the surrounding country, ending his threat to the city of Paris. With a free hand, the royal army subdued first Bourges, and then upon hearing of Condé's negotiations with Elizabeth I in the Treaty of Hampton Court exchanging Le Havre for military support, moved on Rouen to stop the English linking with Condé. While his brother Navarre would be killed at the siege, the city would be subdued. In an attempt to reduce his numerical inferiority, mercenaries were recruited in Germany and brought into France to supplement Condé's forces. The royal command tasked Marshal Saint André with intercepting them before a linkup was established, he was however unable to do so and, troops in hand Condé began a march on Paris.

His drive on the city would be frustrated, and he was brought to battle as he retreated north at the Battle of Dreux. Condé led the Huguenot forces throughout much of the battle, however during a retreat of his cavalry he was captured, and after his forces lost the battle, he would be the Duke of Guise's captive. Guise, magnanimous in victory, offered even his bed to the captive prince. However with the death of the duke, assassinated as he tried to subdue Orléans, the crown which had seemed on the precipice of total victory would lose all momentum. Condé would be summoned, along with Montmorency, by Catherine to negotiate a peace. The Edict of Amboise would confirm a degree of toleration, though more restricted than the sweeping Edict of Saint-Germain in 1562. It largely favoured the aristocratic elements of the Huguenot party, with provisions allowing freedom of worship on the estates of the nobility.

Removing the English
With the end of the civil war, the matter of the English occupation of Le Havre and Dieppe became a concern for the crown. Catherine decided that a combined army retaking these cities would help heal the wounds of the previous year. While Coligny and Francois de Coligny d'Andelot refused to participate against their former ally, Condé joined in the crown's effort. The forces under the command of Condé, Charles de Cossé, Count of Brissac and other leaders brought the cities back into submission by August 1563.

Feud
Meanwhile a feud had been developing between the Guise and Montmorency family, the former of whom blamed Montmorency's nephew Coligny for the assassination of the duke of Guise, the latter of whom had brought his nephew under his protection. Seeking advantage in this quarrel the Cardinal of Lorraine reached out to Condé aiming to build a non-confessional basis of support. This was buoyed by the death of his wife in July 1564, which severed his kinship ties to the Montmorency. The two had a friendly meeting at Soissons where the Cardinal offered him a Guise princess as a new wife. Failing in this, but assured of his goodwill, the cardinal planned to enter Paris in force, his retinue clashing with those of the Montmorency on the streets of Paris in January 1565. Coming out the worse, the Cardinal and the young Henri Guise were forced to flee. Turning to the war of words the Guise proclaimed to Condė and the other princes that they were the protectors of men of true rank, against the upstart house of Montmorency.

Surprise of Meaux
Condé would however drift away from the Guise in the coming years, as they abandoned their non-religious approach and began championing the Catholic ultras in pursuit of their vendetta. In particular modifications to the Edict of Amboise which reduced its terms, and a meeting between Catherine and the Duke of Alba were met with disquiet by Condé and Coligny. When a further modification was made to the edict of Amboise in 1567, expanding the ban on Protestantism in Paris to the Ile de France region, at the same time as Alba began marching north to the Netherlands, Condé got into a shouting match with the king, and then decided to withdraw from court. Writing from his estates he protested to Catherine about the hiring of Swiss mercenaries to protect France from Alba's troops, seeing them as a tool of Huguenot extermination. Catherine tried to reassure him and invite him back to court but he was uninterested.

Away from the centre of power, the leading Huguenot nobility began plotting what course of action to take, meeting at Coligny's chateau to discuss details. Condé, Coligny and the Count of Montgomery were in attendance among others. Eventually it was settled on to kidnap the king and the queen mother at Meaux, and assassinate members of the court who opposed them, specifically the Cardinal of Lorraine. The conspiracy was a better kept secret than that of Amboise, and when they struck on 28 September the court was caught off guard. It was able to recover however and quickly make for Paris; Condé, surprised by the speed of its withdrawal, gave pursuit with only 1/3 of the forces he had intended to assemble. He charged three times, but the phalanxes of Swiss mercenaries were able to repel him and the court made it to Paris.

Civil war
With their coup a failure, Condé and the other leading plotters decided to besiege Paris, hoping to starve the king out before the crown could assemble the full force of its army against them. Much as with the first civil war, they were aided by subsidiary risings across France, which took the cities of Orléans, Valence and Auxerre among others. Condé negotiated aggressively with those sent out to meet him, demanding a free exercise of religion, the expulsion of Italian financiers and the repeal of all taxes created since the time of Louis XII. The crown rejected these demands, and slowly began building up its forces, and seizing bridges. Misjudging his situation, Condé sent off subsidiary forces to take nearby towns, leaving his encirclement of Paris thin. This done, Montmorency struck out from Paris in November, besting Condé in the bloody battle of Saint-Denis though dying on the field himself. Condé withdrew from Paris, making his way east, conscious that his position was critical, but that the death of Montmorency had bought him some time while the royal army reorganised. Having successfully linked up with mercenaries and other Huguenot armies in the country, he turned back, and decided to besiege Chartres seeing it as a rich target to pay his restless troops. The siege dragged on, in part due to Condé's poor placement of the cannons, but before it could conclude, negotiations between the two sides brought a truce on 13 March. Peace was signed at Longjumeau on 23 March 1568.

Short peace
The Peace of Longjumeau largely represented a repeat of the terms agreed in Amboise several years prior. It would be uneasy, neither side holding much faith in its survival. The balance at court shifted from the moderates who had negotiated the peace, towards hardliners who desired its overturning. Meanwhile Condé and the Huguenot leadership disregarded the prohibition on foreign alliances, coming to terms with Protestant rebels in the Spanish Netherlands to aid each other against 'wicked counsel'.

By September Lorraine had a majority on the council for the overturning of the peace, eager to take up Pius V offer of financial assistance in return for a war on heresy. Condé, Coligny and the Huguenot leadership, having been warned of a plan to arrest them by Gaspard de Saulx, sieur de Tavannes fled from the court southwards, making their way to the safe haven of La Rochelle where they took arms to defend themselves. On 28 September the Edict of Saint-Maur revoked Longjumeau and declared Catholicism the only religion of France. On 6 October the Duke of Anjou took the field.

Third civil war
Not having the benefit of uprisings in northern cities, Condé and Coligny would reorientate the axis of the third civil war to a defence of the Huguenot heartlands in the south. His forces, and those of Tavannes, circled Loudun in late 1568, seeking to find good ground to attack the other. Eventually the Crown's forces broke off to winter, and the Huguenot forces, after trying and failing to seize Saumur likewise settled into camp. In March 1569, hearing reports that Condé intended to lunge south and seize Cognac, Tavannes decided to take advantage, crossing the Charente on the night of 12 March, and coming upon the Huguenot rear. The royal vanguard, under Montpensier, fell upon the Huguenot rear-guard under Condé, and he was unhorsed. Though unarmed and under guard, there would be no gentlemanly capture for him this time and he was executed on the duke of Anjou's orders. While the majority of the Huguenot army got away unscathed, Condé's corpse would be paraded through Jarnac on the back of a donkey to the jeers of the populace.

Marriage and children
Condé married in 1551, to Eléanor de Roucy de Roye (1536–1564), heiress of Charles de Roye. She brought as her dowry the château and small town of Conti-sur-Selles, southwest of Amiens, which would pass to their third son, progenitor of the princes de Conti. They had:

 * 1) Henri de Bourbon, Prince of Condé
 * 2) Marguerite de Bourbon b. 8 Nov 1556
 * 3) Charles de Bourbon b. 3 Nov 1557
 * 4) François de Bourbon, Prince of Conti b. 19 Aug 1558
 * 5) Charles de Bourbon, Cardinal, Archbishop of Rouen, b. 30 Mar 1562
 * 6) Louis de Bourbon b. 30 Mar 1562
 * 7) Madeleine de Bourbon b. 7 Oct 1563
 * 8) Catherine de Bourbon b. 1564

On 8 November 1565, a widower, he married Francoise d'Orleans, Mademoiselle de Longueville, they had:

 * 1) Charles de Bourbon, Count of Soissons b. 3 Nov 1566, Nogent le Rotrou
 * 2) Louis de Bourbon b. 1567
 * 3) Benjamin de Bourbon b. 1569

He allegedly fathered a son by his mistress Isabelle de Limeuil, who served as Maid of Honour to Catherine de' Medici and was a member of her notorious group of female spies known at the French court as the "Flying Squadron". He vigorously denied paternity much to Isabelle's chagrin.His son, Henri, also became a Huguenot general and fought in the later wars of religion.

Depiction in media
Louis Condé is played by British actor Sean Teale in the TV show Reign. He has an affair with Mary, Queen of Scots and leads a coup against the monarchy.

title: Louis I, Prince of Condé


text:
User talk:Rasmus Faber/archive1

Name change
Rasmus, if you just created an account and wish to change your name, create a new account with the name you prefer. You're still logged in under the name in the title abve.

Thanks Dysprosia 11:51, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Actually it is the other way around :) Changed RFaber->Rasmus Faber and wanted to mention that on the RFaber page.

 * Ok, nifty. You haven't made any edits under the username User:RFaber though. (Oh, you mean User:Rfaber :) Dysprosia 13:28, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Factorization
Strictly, factorization is definately in NP - given a factor, we can see that that factor factors n. (try saying that 5 times fast...)

That does not imply that it is in NP-Complete, which is the real issue. -- Pakaran 16:19, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Tip: the capitalization of the first letter of a wikilink doesn't matter, e.g., Mahatma Gandhi and mahatma Gandhi link to the same article. Cheers, Cyan 16:28, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Ah. My bad, then. -- Cyan 16:39, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Classical pantheism
Just so you know, Pantheism IS NOT synonymous with Cosmotheism, particularly not with the Cosmotheist denomination from which the anonymous editor who made the mess out of this page is from. They are related however, in broad areas of doctrine. I appreciate your assistance in repairing the article, and welcome you to ask any questions you may have in the talk. In case your interested, Cosmotheism could particularly use assistance ;) Jack 12:58, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Actually, Classical pantheism is synonymous with Cosmotheism. You and many others, Jack Lynch, have just been confused by the false and deliberate "mis-association" of the "religion" of cosmotheism with the unpopular "politics" of White separatism, by the critics of the latter.-PV

CAM confusion
In response to your comments on talk:evidence-based medicine.

No problem! It is easy for YOU to be confused! Searching on PubMed with this text string:
 * cam [sb] nutrition

yields 14,292 hits. Searching on PubMed with this text string:
 * cam [sb] epidemiology

yields even more hits at 17,073.

Ergo, my point is perfectly valid and is not POV. -- Mr-Natural-Health 02:04, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

STOP moving my comments!

-- Mr-Natural-Health 01:26, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

You've got mail!

It is indisputable!

There is NO Edit War in Alternative medicine, nor is the content in dispute. You guys are playing dirty. And, of course, all of my editing is made in order to improve articles. -- Mr-Natural-Health 15:03, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

da.wikipedia.org
Hi Rasmus. If you have some extra time to spare, we can always use more contributors over at da.wikipedia.org; you could e.g. use your English language article about Jens Christian Skou to expand the rather short Danish one. If you're already contributing to the Danish Wikipedia, please disregard this message. :-) - Kåre Thor Olsen (Kaare) 15:42, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Alpha-beta pruning
Thanks for reverting my anti-correction. Most of the time when an anon reverses the meaning of something without an edit comment it is vandalism. --mav 09:47, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The Queen of Denmark
Her name is Þorhildur in Danish, but Thorhildur in English, because Þ is not a letter of the English alphabet. Just as the President of Russia is Владимир Путин in Russian but Vladimir Putin in English. If ð and Þ have been used at the Iceland Prime Ministers page that is wrong and I will change it. Adam 13:36, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Important pages
What would you consider important pages?

Massage
High, I notice massage has been getting an attack of the Mr Natural Healths. You might be interested to know about this process: MNH in arbitration.

If you would like to detail your edit war with Mr Natural Health please consider doing so in the style of the evidence there relating to World Health Organization or Lifestyle diseases.

Both of those articles are ones I put down the basis of evidence for despite having no real interest in the articles themselves - but I'm just determined that this relentless box placing must stop. However, it is tiring and boring to try and do every article so afflicted. So, I hope you'll help. If you can't, please let me know and perhaps I'll take a deep breath and... --bodnotbod 13:45, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

Where did the content go?
Rasmus. What happened to the Massage therapy item? It was a comprehensive article covering many different types of massage therapy, moving along very nicely to NPOV. You have moved it to a new page with a three-sentence stub content. Where is the informaton from the massage therapy page? . Moriori 21:00, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * Tks for your comment on my talk page.Aaaaargh. Should have guessed. No problem -- I think it's fine as it is. Moriori 22:41, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

Testing on the Main Page.
My test had to take place on the Main Page, it was a test of the main page. I found a glitch earlier that took to the “View Source” for the main page when I typed in http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?Title=Template:In_the_news&action=edit and I thought that Template:In the news might be protected now. Also, I was testing how long it took for the so-called “vandalism”—It was not vandalism—to be reverted. 10 minutes. Not bad. — El Chico!  Talk 12:12, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Protecting pages
Thanks for that I'll make the necessary apologies theresa knott 13:01, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Public key cryptography
Rasmus,

In (belatedly) following up on your query at public key, I decided to see who had caught me out. Having now noted your interests, it occurred to me that you might (or might not) want to participate in the revamping of the cryptography / cryptology / topics on cryptography / books on cryptography articles which, it seems, has begun. See Talk:Cryptography, Talk:Books on ..., and User:Arvindn/crypto for the current (chronicleistically confused) state of play.

The main players at the moment, as far as I'm aware, are myself, Imran, and Arvindn. JDForrester has put an oar in now and again as well. We are in NY (me), England (Imran, I think), India (Arvindn), and so a Dane would be appropriate additional distribution. We'd only need an Australian, an Antartician, a South American, and perhaps a Far East Asian to complete a continental (plus some subcontinents and large islands) sweep. Or something like that.

Cryptography is currently under consideration as a WP featured article (see the featured article candidates page for details), and there are clearly some differences with regard to the meta issues of cryptography and their coverage and emphasis in assorted crypto related articles. Being in the business (on the development side?) you are likely to have some ideas on these matters. If you'd like to throw them into the pot, well.... ww 15:25, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Chelation therapy
Thanks for digging up that ACAM news release, Rasmus! Rosemary Amey 17:02, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

Danish wikipedians' notice board.
You have shown an interest in Denmark or Danish related topics in the past, so I invite you to have a look at Danish wikipedians' notice board. It is a tool to help people interested in Denmark post articles they'd like to see, and to keep track of the existent coverage of Denmark. It can also serve as a place to address concerns regarding any aspect of Danish coverage on the english wikipedia. Hope you find it useful! In any case, could you please look at it and fill in any articles you know of that are not covered by the list? Thanks,

Peregrine981 04:33, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Links Removed
Hello,

I would like to know why you deleted all the external links I added yesterday. Those links pointed to a variety of articles published in Bohème Magazine, which is a free, non profit and non commercial cultural webzine; all the links were relevant, and would have been of interest to people researching those topics.

I fail to see how this could be considered "spam," anymore than the other external links listed.

Calcutta -> Kolkata name change
Hi there. I noticed you voted in the Naming policy poll to keep the Wikipedia policy of naming an article with the most familiar English name. You may not be aware that another attempt has begun to rename the Calcutta article to Kolkata, which is blatantly not the most common name of the city, whether it's official or not. If you want to vote on the issue you can do so at Talk:Calcutta. Cheers. -- Necrothesp 14:07, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Danish placenames
I was under the impression that the Å spellings had been officially preferred since 1948. As for Aalborg, you'll find something interesting here (not my doing). I notice, though, that the Aa spelling is used in the text. Kelisi 16:09, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Karameh
Fixed the copyvio and the POV in one fell swoop. :-D -- BD2412  talk 13:39, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)

Mangosteen "Pure Content" Website External Link Restored
Hi Rasmus - I just restored the external link "Health Benefits of Mangosteen". It's an informative, "pure content" website about the health benefits of Mangosteen, and had been in the Mangosteen wikipedia article for quite sometime now until you took it out yesterday because of the obviously commercial link additions from a Vemma distributor. The previous cleanup sometime ago by a community member to remove spam links correctly left the "Health Benefits" link there. If in doubt about its usefulness, go to the website and see what I mean. Thanks! - Oscar.

3RR
Are we not explaining 3RR correctly? Does the WP:3RR article not describe things in a way that can be understood? Trail Guide says "I edited the article. My edit is the one being reverted." I've heard this before. It seems that new users think that if they are restoring their edit the 3RR rules don't apply to them. Do we need to spell that out more? - Tεx  τ  urε  20:35, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I believe the 3RR is quite clear. I think User:Trail Guide either deliberately refuses to understand or that he feels that he is above the rules. If he is sincere about believing all the reverting editors to be sockpuppets, he might think that defending against another person violating the 3RR entitles him to violate it, too. Unfortunately, I don't think he will stop before he becomes blocked. Rasmus (talk) 21:01, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Your comment to me is right. (I need to go back and re-review the rules now and then...) Thanks for pointing that out! (Not that I regret my reverts... :) I don't take your comments as criticism, but I did debate before doing the fourth revert thinking I was in the right. (As Ahoersteiemer my have as well - he also did 4 reverts in the past 24 hours.) If this continues longer I will ask another admin to block the user and/or IP. I actually came in late to this but wanted to talk the user out of this quixotic course. Obviously this isn't a user but marketing for the website. (I'd do the block myself but I dislike doing so after an exchange - even if I spent my time trying to get them to not get themselves blocked.) - Tεx  τ  urε  22:43, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

It is working nowAdam1213 08:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rasmus Faber/archive1