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User talk:Toby Bartels/2003 June

Toby, I left a question/comment for you at Talk:Axiom schema of replacement. AxelBoldt

Toby, you know Fwappler? Do you possess a Fwappler-English dictionary by any chance? -- Tarquin 19:55 Jan 9, 2003 (UTC)

I've met him on USENET. Unfortunately, he seems less comprehensible now than he did then. You can see me trying to still communicate with him on his user page -- it has worked in the past. -- Toby 20:08 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

Are you still around? Best, Koyaanis Qatsi

I'm trying to be -- I'm more limited now that I was before in times that I can access the Net. Axel's been waiting for some stuff from me on Axiom schema of replacement, but I think that I did some good there in the end! If anybody's trying to reach me, I still check my email more often than Wikipedia. -- Toby 03:44 Jan 27, 2003 (UTC)

I agree with your change in Germanic language. Maybe my change was a bit like saying that Chinese can also be written in Pinyin or Wade-Giles. Sebastian 10:21 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

Toby, I saw your comment on User talk:Cochise, so I translated the comment by User:Cochise for you. --Chuck SMITH

Toby, comment on meta for you, in case that page isn't on your watchlist. Thanks for your careful attention to the LS business but there are some concerns.

Hi Toby, You are wrong on the AA. AA does mean Automobile Association. In fact for many, they they think of it before any other meaning. It may be called the American Automobile Association in the US, but in Britain and Ireland it is simply the Automobile Association. I've reverted the page. STÓD/ÉÍRE 09:48 Mar 8, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks! I realised after my edit that I should have checked for names in other places before editing instead of (as was my plan) after. But you caught it anyway, while I was working on Å. (In fact, I should probably just go to bed right now ^_^.) -- Toby 09:58 Mar 8, 2003 (UTC)

I see that you commented on the article on John Baez, and edited it, but you did not add it to the list of mathematical topics or the list of physics topics. I have now done so, and notified him that he may now consider himself famous. Michael Hardy 01:48 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

I don't use those lists, so I often forget to add things to them -- and certainly don't if I only edit the page instead of starting it. So good for you for being more conscientious than I! ^_^ -- Toby 06:53 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Toby, I changed the definition of local base because the old one didn't fit with the use on local compactness and regular space. I also changed the definition of "locally connected" on Topology glossary accordingly. Do you think the change of definition of "local base" has any other ramifications? AxelBoldt 17:55 Apr 21, 2003 (UTC)

I can't find any. Generally, I wouldn't expect the change to cause any problems, since given a local base, you can always find an open local base by taking interiors. Typically (IME), this makes everything work out that needs to work out.

In fact, don't think that locally connected should be changed either. I can't find an example where it makes a difference (nor prove that it never does), but the only independent definitions that I can find use a definition that doesn't require the local base to be open. With that in mind, I'll change it back -- but let me know if you can think of any ramifications of that.

-- Toby 01:36 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)

I'm a bit afraid that there are spaces which are locally (path-) connected in one sense and not the other, and the open-local-base defintions seem somewhat more comforting to me. It is also the definition used in the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Mathematics, and (equivalent to) the definition given in the article on locally connected. But I don't know any counter examples either, so let's wait until a specialist shows up and shoots us down. AxelBoldt 18:39 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)

They are the same; here's the proof: Let U be an open nhood of x; I want an open (path-)connected subnhood. Let C be the (path-)connected component of U that owns x; I claim that C is open. So suppose that y belongs to C. Since C is contained in the open set U, local (path-)connectedness provides a (path-)connected nhood V of y that is contained in U. Since V is (path-)connected, it's actually contained in a single (path-)connected component of U, which must be C. Thus C contains a nhood of y, so C must itself be a nhood of y. Since y was an arbitrary element of C, this proves that C is indeed open; it is the (path-)connected nhood of x that I wanted.

This proof shows something a bit stronger: that (path-)connected components of open sets must be open in a locally (path-)connected space. This is Theorem 25.3 in the 2nd edition of Munkres, whose proof I adapted. (Compare also Exercise 25.6, since nhoods are open for Munkres.)

-- Toby 05:37 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks! I have reopened the front on Talk:Axiom schema of replacement. AxelBoldt 17:25 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)

Hi! I was under the impression that Wikis strive to set things in Wiki format! And since I had a replace all function on my browser, I thought I'd do that. If you were unhappy with it, please let me know!

 * "unhappy" may be too strong a word. I do think that that math markup works better with  and  than with  and ', because they really do mean different things. When I edit those files next, the parts where I edit them will change back, but I won't change them back now.  and  really are wiki markup, BTW; it's just that since they're rare, no wiki abbreviation shorter than the HTML tags has been devised, so we use the HTML tags as the markup. (On some wikis,  and '' really are the same thing, but not here.)

As for the CS connection, we still do use set theory as well as type theory, where set theory is used more in design and theoretical computer science. In a few of my classes, we used several set theories, including Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, to design hypothetical databases. --PY

 * Cool! -- Toby 03:29 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

See my reply to you on my talk page -- Moshe Nackmen

Thanks for summing up why we shouldn't keep that link around on Talk:Joseph McCarthy. I couldn't bear to keep reading that... tripe, to put it nicely, after the first couple of sentences. I think you did a pretty good job of laying out just why it shouldn't be there. :) -- John Owens 04:43 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

You're welcome. I have a certain fascination with hate speech, so I can get through it all right, thinking of it as a psychological examination. I only get the pit in my stomach when they start attacking queers (as I am one). And I suppose that it's good that they do get around to giving me that pit in the stomach, since otherwise people that read hate speech because they're fascinated by it have been known to succumb to it. '_` -- Toby 05:27 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

With Quantity--I really had no interest in making an article at that point. I simply wanted "something" to be there. Would it be possible to no longer have the page which lists the amount of edits a user has made, it bothers me to a significant degree. It makes me feel as if Im not a valued contributor until I am at the top of the list, which, I'm sure isn't official policy but the list clearly insinuates that to be the case. Pizza Puzzle

I'm not really involved with that list; you'll have to take it up on its talk page. -- Toby Bartels 04:35 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Also, if I use preview and my connection dies, then I lose all my edits and I have to start all over. Perhaps there should be a client one can download which allows them to edit and preview offline. Pizza Puzzle

This has been discussed before, but I'm not sure where to find it. Ask on wikitech-L, and they'll be able to tell you. -- Toby Bartels 04:35 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hey, I just saw the new and improved Separation axiom for the first time. A true beauty! AxelBoldt 17:26 20 May 2003 (UTC)

Thanks! -- Toby Bartels 04:08 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It is not appropriate to revert my edits, marking them as minor, and not even bothering to tell me. Pizza Puzzle

The only minor reversion that I can think of was of moving the content of Number to Real number. That seemed like it was obviously a mistake -- that you must have hit the wrong button somewhere. If you really mean to move those things, then I won't mark them minor when I revert -- but I'll still revert, because such a move would be quite wrong! (Of course, I'd also explain things on the talk pages.) -- Toby Bartels 04:08 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I just added some stuff to groupoid, maybe you can pitch in. Do you know anything about Lie groupoids, and how they are used to study manifolds and stuff? AxelBoldt 23:54 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I'll ask my advisor for some references. -- Toby Bartels 04:08 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hello, sorry but I reverted your renaming an article Negative and non-negative numbers. It is because I have never heared of a word signed number besides there seems no agreement made to renaming yet in the talkpage. -- Taku 04:27 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Re: Mark up in e-mails. (My mailer is in read-only mode for some reason). The convention I pointed to is in the Jargon file
 * "Also, it is common to use bracketing with unusual characters to signify emphasis. The asterisk is most common, as in "What the *hell*?" even though this interferes with the common use of the asterisk suffix as a footnote mark. The underscore is also common, suggesting underlining (this is particularly common with book titles; for example, "It is often alleged that Joe Haldeman wrote _The_Forever_War_ as a rebuttal to Robert Heinlein's earlier novel of the future military, _Starship_Troopers_."). Other forms exemplified by "=hell=", "\hell/", or "/hell/" are occasionally seen (it's claimed that in the last example the first slash pushes the letters over to the right to make them italic, and the second keeps them from falling over)."

and, as cprompt pointed out, used in Mozilla. I should have pointed out that they're not canonical though. -- Jim Regan 22:30 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

That Mozilla has accepted a standard (I hope overridable!) is a good reason to adopt that. I may consider how these slashy things work for me. -- Toby Bartels 05:00 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Doesn't seem to be in the preferences, though there's probably a line or two you can put in the prefs.js. It only lets you turn off smileys being shown as graphics. -- Jim Regan 18:33 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

You mean they render fonts (or otherwise alter the given text) without its being an explicit user option? For shame! (Even if you can affect it using  ... Mozilla is aimed at the ordinary user these days, and most won't know about editing the preferences file directly.) -- Toby Bartels 22:16 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It's probably in the new beta (my modem's too slow to even consider grabbing it), or in the new mail app they're doing. If not, that's what Bugzilla's for :) -- Jim Regan 20:26 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

In reference to this mailing list post (Mozilla still won't send mail for me) -- PML has been repeatedly calling Zoe a vandal on Talk:U.S. Virgin Islands and on Talk:List of British English words not used in American English. -- Jim Regan 17:29 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Yes, as I acknowledged in this mailing list post. Zoe seems to think that because she stands strong against people like PML, thus she must be right in all of her conflicts with people like GrahamN, Martin, and anthere; or that because PML has been rude to her and called her a vandal, thus all of her other opponents must have done the same thing. This is not true. Often she is right, but sometimes she is wrong, and the issues in New River Gorge Bridge are not the same as those in the articles that you cited. Indeed, that constrast was basically the point of my two posts. -- Toby Bartels 06:39 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought she was out of order in those threads too. A bit moot, now that she seems to have gotten fed up and moved on, though. -- Jim Regan 06:47 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I suppose that you're right -- I hadn't yet realised that she'd left when I wrote those posts. Zoe's been a good contributor, but there've been some good contributors -- JHK was another -- that don't seem to me to be cut out for the way that Wikipedia works. It's times like these that I wish that Larry's Sifter project had gotten off the ground. Something like that must come along eventually, however! -- so they may all be back in the end. ^_^ -- Toby Bartels 07:06 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It's a pity it didn't take off -- it might have cut down on some of the American vs British English arguments! (Or at least, just moved them) -- Jim Regan 17:59 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

title: User talk:Toby Bartels/2003 June


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Ruben III

Ruben III (Ռուբեն Գ), also Roupen III, Rupen III, or Reuben III, (1145 – Monastery of Drazark, May 6, 1187) was the ninth lord of Armenian Cilicia (1175–1187).

Roupen remained always friendly to the Crusaders in spirit. He was a just and good prince, and created many pious foundations within his domains.

His life
He was the eldest son of Stephen, the third son of Leo I, lord of Armenian Cilicia. His mother was Rita, a daughter of Sempad, Lord of Barbaron. Roupen's father, who was on his way to attend a banquet given by the Byzantine governor of Cilicia, Andronikos Euphorbenos, was murdered on February 7, 1165. Following his father's death, Roupen lived with his maternal uncle, Pagouran, lord of the fortress of Barbaron, protecting the Cilician Gates pass in the Taurus Mountains.

Roupen took up the reins of Cilicia following the assassination of his paternal uncle, Mleh who had been murdered by members of his own inner circle of Armenian nobles on May 15, 1175. He was a friend of the Franks (the Crusaders); for example, at the end of 1177, he assisted Philip, Count of Flanders and Prince Bohemond III of Antioch at the ineffectual siege of Harenc.

"He was an excellent prince, compassionate and kind; he ruled the country very well, and was praised by everybody."

- Vahram of Edessa: The Rhymed Chronicle of Armenia Minor

In June 1180, Saladin, the sultan of Egypt, and Kilij Arslan II, the sultan of Iconium met on the river Sanja and there, apparently concluded an alliance. The first fruits of their alliance were a short and successful campaign against Roupen III, on the pretext of harsh treatment of the Turkoman tribes in his territories. Roupen made peace with Kilij Arslan II in the same year. In the course of the year, many of the nobles of the Principality of Antioch who hated Sybilla, the new wife of Bohemond III fled to Roupen's court.

Early in 1181, Roupen came on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and there on 4 February 1181/3 February 1182 he married Isabella of Toron, daughter of Humphrey III of Toron and Stephanie of Milly.

At the end of 1182, the Byzantine governor of Cilicia and the ruler of Cyprus, Isaac Komnenos, in revolt against the Emperor Andronicus I Comnenus, sought help from Bohemond III against Roupen and admitted his troops into Tarsus. Bohemond promptly changed his mind and sold Tarsus and the governor to Roupen, then repented of it. Isaac Komnenos was ransomed by the Knights Templar.

In 1183, Hethum III of Lampron, allied with Bohemond III, began joint hostilities against Roupen. They invited Roupen to Antioch as a prelude to ending the counterproductive rivalry between the two Armenian houses, but upon his arrival Roupen was taken captive and imprisoned. But Roupen's brother Leo finished off the conquest of the Hethoumians and attacked Antioch.

Roupen's release required payment of a large ransom and the submission of Adana and Mamistra as vassalages to Antioch; but on his return to Cilicia he soon recovered them. Bohemond III made various ineffectual raids but achieved nothing more.

Roupen abdicated in favor of his brother and retired to the monastery of Drazark where he died.

"On his return to his own country Rouben was kind and humane to every one, and at his death left the crown to Leon; he gave him many rules concerning the government of the country, and committed to him his daughters, with an injunction not to give them foreign husbands, that the Armenians might not be governed by foreigners and harassed by a tyrant."

- Vahram of Edessa: The Rhymed Chronicle of Armenia Minor

Marriage and children
# (4 February 1181 – 3 February 1182) Isabella of Toron, a daughter of Humphrey III of Toron and Stephanie of Milly
 * Alice (1182 – after 1234), the wife firstly of Hethum of Sassoun, secondly of Count Raymond IV of Tripoli, and thirdly of Vahram of Korikos
 * Philippa (1183 – before 1219), the wife firstly of Shahanshah of Sassoun, and secondly of Theodore I Laskaris, emperor of Nicaea

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ruben III


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Talk:African forest elephant

Conservation Status of forest elephants incorrect as shown
At the time of writing this comment, the conservation status of the forest elephant is shown as Endangered (EN). This is incorrect, since the conservation status ratings shown in Wikipedia are obtained from the IUCN Red List (TM)of Endangered Species, and IUCN does not at present recognize two species of African Elephant (see http://www.iucn.org/themes/ssc/sgs/afesg/tools/pdfs/pos_genet_en.pdf), and in consequence there is no separate Red List entry for the forest elephant. The correct classification would be either Vulnerable (the current Red List classification of the African elephant as a single species) or Unassessed. Could someone familiar with the graphic depictions of Red List status in Wikipedia please correct that? Thanks Pitix 16:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

 * MSW3 treats africanus and cyclotis as separate species; IUCN treats them as the same species. For L.cyclotis, MSW3 states "IUCN – Endangered (as included in L. africana)". This is a strange procedure: will cyclotis still have the same status as africana even if the last cyclotis dies? MSW3 is surely mis-citing IUCN Red list on this point.
 * As the Taxobox is citing IUCN Red List, and IUCN Red List does not evaluate L.cyclotis at all, I am altering the taxobox status to NE (not evluated). I hope this is acceptable. --Stfg (talk) 14:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

War elephants
War elephant says that Hannibal's elephants were Forest ones. Is it confirmed? Were they natural north of Sahara? -- Error 01:48, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

They belonged to a now extinct species, (or subspecies) called Loxodonta (africana) pharaoensis. Dan Koehl 02:33, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Also, the statement is both unsourced and seems out of place. Moisture (talk) 14:41, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Marked as dubious. 173.66.211.53 (talk) 05:13, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Species or Subspecies?
This is a funny story. In the 2001 Science article where they supposedly showed that savannah elephant and forest elephant are two distinct species, they actually presented evidence that they are one species. But they still say they are two species. Quote: "Large genetic distance, multiple genetically fixed nucleotide site differences, morphological and habitat distinctions, and extremely limited hybridization of gene flow between forest and savannah elephants support the recognition and conservation management of two African species: Loxodonta africana and Loxodonta cyclotis." -- In other words: our DNA study actually found evidence that it's one species (there is limited gene flow), but we'd rather ignore this evidence and instead say they are two different species because it's better for conservation and also makes a more interesting paper that way. As far as I know, "large genetic distance" has exactly nothing to do with the question whether they are distinct species or not... If there is gene flow between them, they probably shouldn't even be considered as different subspecies. -- Am I missing something? Chl 05:02, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I suppose its a question of interpretions. In fact, the crossing between the both genus Loxodonta and Elephas is fertile, indicating it should maybe be one genus. Lately it seems DNA research slowly seems to "take" over" reg forking of species, cause with its tecnique is possible to messure genetical distance between populations. Dan Koehl 17:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

 * For species to be distinct, there needs not to be complete absence of hybridization or gene flow. In fact, hybridization between good species is not even uncommon, and such hybrids are oftern even fertile if hybridization happens within the same genus. The question to ponder is, does the hybridization occur often enough in an evolutionary timeframe that the populations in question are merging genetically? In this case, there is "extremely limited" gene flow. The genetic distance per se needs not to be indicative of species status, but it is a good supportive argument. What really counts towards species stauts is the fact that there are fixed nucleotide site differences - that's the evidence that whatever hybridization there might have been, it did not occur often enough to break the species barrier. The entire argument becomes more clear if one looks at the scenario that would have been found if the elephants were one species - namely, nucleotide divergence marginal or inconsistent.

 * Note also that subspecies are genetically (nearly) 100% compatible - if they meet, they will hybridize; thus all subspecies of a certain species will be either allopatric representatives or have behavioral differences (mainly found in fish - subspecies that spawn at different times of the year, although these are more correctly already becoming different speciation).

 * I have added the reference to the North African elephant. However, I have not found a taxonomic reference. It is not clear whether this was a subspecies or a species; I'd lean towards ssp. status, as the desertification of the Sahara isolated this population very effectively. It was definitely a distinct evolutionary entity, but I do not think the time passed since its isolation was sufficient for species status at all. Dysmorodrepanis 00:31, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Mammal Species of the World (3rd ed) is being published later this year, and I make a strong suggestion to all folks with an interest in mammalian taxonomy to closely follow MSW's classification, and to join WP:MAM to work on divying up the work of updating our articles. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

It's likely that they'll use the two-species concept, I think. However, we shouldn't always follow them.

It's a common misunderstanding under non-biologists, and probably also under biologists, that gene flow is the most important criterion for species recognition. It is not. Some horse-donkey hybrids are fertile, but horse and donkey are certainly different species.

There are a few things that are really important for species recognition:
 * 1) Sympatry. If two forms occur in the same place (sympatrically), it's commonly agreed upon that they are different species. Some forms may also be recognized as separate species because they're as different as two sympatric species: Marmosops parvidens and Marmosops pinheiroi, formerly considered subspecies, were found sympatrically in Paracou, French Guiana, and Marmosops juninensis and another species of which I forgot the name were also declared separate species by Voss et al. (2001) because they were as different as the two Paracou species.
 * 2) Large genetic distance. If two forms differ about 18% or so in mitochondrial DNA, they're probably separate species. If two specimens of the "same" species from the same locality differ by 18% (some Echimyidae species), their conspecificity becomes even more doubtful ;-).
 * 3) Limited gene flow. Many forms may produce fertile offspring, although they are separate species. It's possible that humans and chimpanzees produce fertile offspring, but they're certainly not one species. As yet, many molecular biologists say that the "large genetic distance probably limits the gene flow severely", so our two species are two species.
 * 4) Diagnosability. Some biologists (for example Colin Groves) think that two species are separate if it's possible to diagnose them accurately. This may be a bit extreme, I think.

In conclusion, there are certainly at least two species of African elephant. Ucucha|... 13:31, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well argued! Holds true for any species concept too (see below) - the difference between PSC and BSC (the most popular ones by far today) is mainly that a phylo-species is currently completing speciation, and a bio-species has completely finished it. In most cases (mallards and their relatives are the most well-known example to the contrary), this means the following:
 * Gene flow is very limited or non-existent in both phylo- and biospecies. But in the former, reproductive compatibility is not as far advanced as an increase of gene flow would not result in the "swamping" of the distinct populations into one mish-mash over time, whereas in a biospecies, hybridization capability (including behavioral, seasonal etc factors) relative to reproductive rate is so limited that the lineages' evolutionary ways have parted forever. (The "mallardine" ducks have "always" been considered biospecies, but they are actually phylospecies) Dysmorodrepanis 21:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Not so certainly
There are many definitions of species, and the one thing they all have in common is that they're ultimately definitions of convenience. In consequence, the number of African elephant species depends ultimately on what definition is adopted. Disagreements between lumpers and splitters are the bread and butter of Taxonomy - a "science" that tries to create discrete hierarchical categories in a continuum. There is no taxonomic authority that determines what species should be recognized, or what definition should be adopted, and recognition in practice depends on scientific consensus. As there is currently no consensus on how many species of Loxodonta there are (see e.g. papers published by [ Pascal Tassy and Régis Debruyne (Google search)]), the neutrality of this Wikipedia article in stating that "genetic evidence has shown that..." is rather questionable. As has been pointed out above, there is good evidence of gene flow between the two types in the wild (e.g. in Garamba National Park and North Eastern Gabon, where both phenotypically and genotypically intermediate types have been identified. Under a two species scenario, these intermediate types would be considered hybrids. The irony of this is that the conservation world tends to use the species as a unit of conservation, and hybrids have zero conservation value for the conservation community. It is for this reason that assigning species status to forest elephants may actually be counter-productive for the conservation of certain populations. This explained in a [statement (pdf - 82 kb)] on the possiblity of multiple species scenarios, issued by the [ African Elephant Specialist Group (AfESG)] of the IUCN] [ Species Survival Commission]. Incidentally, and since the AfESG - which is the Red List authority for the African elephant - does not at present recognize multiple species of African elephants, the [ 2004 IUCN Red List assessment] was performed on one species only - encompassing both forest and savanna elephants. It is also worth noting that, for CITES purposes, it does not make any difference whether African elephants belong to one, two or more species - any splitting into additional species would not affect their Appendix I listing. Having said all that, nobody disputes that forest and savanna elephants look different, play different ecological roles, and require different conservation strategies. Coincidentally, however, the distribution of forest and savanna elephants is pretty well resolved by political boundaries, with forest elephants ocurring practically exclusively in Central Africa. The recently developed [ Strategy for the Conservation of Elephants in Central Africa (pdf - 1.8 Mb, in French)] goes some way towards addressing the requirement for (sub)specific conservation approaches. --Pitix 07:29, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Note the following: "There is no taxonomic authority that determines what species should be recognized, or what definition should be adopted, and recognition in practice depends on scientific consensus. As there is currently no consensus on how many species of Loxodonta there are (see e.g. papers published by [ Pascal Tassy and Régis Debruyne (Google search)]), the neutrality of this Wikipedia article in stating that "genetic evidence has shown that..." is rather questionable."
 * This means that a) it is preferrable to use relative wording like, from least strong to strongest, "suggests that the taxonomic status should be reevaluated", "indicates that... may be distinct...", "argues for ... being almost certainly distinct spp." until the split/merge has become generally accepted, and for splits with pending resolution, use eg (parentheses) around the species name as here. And it argues that b), if you really really really want to get down and dirty with systematics and taxonomy, if you take a stand and use a disputed taxon on WP, it's completely kosher - if this is not a) based on original research (i.e. what the data you and only you have sitting around at home says) and b) discussed. And this is not to say that molecular evidence, or morphological evidence, or whatnot, is superior (many molecular studies are based on probability alone and it is amazing how little biogeography, paleoclimatology etc are utilizied in these questions): A taxonomic decision gets accepted ultimately, it it is based on sound reasoning which fits in line with all available evidence, the odd personal quarrel nonwithstading. Dysmorodrepanis 21:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I couldn't agree more with your suggestions, and that is precisely what I did in the general Elephant page. Also agree that these things should be discussed, and that was the original aim of my comment above, but it clearly did not stir much interest, as illustrated by the fact that, a year on, only response has been posted. Anyhow, back to elephants: if you want to get a feel for the controversy and lack of consensus in the scientific community regarding this issue, the following article is worth a read: Debruyne, R. 2005. A case study of apparent conflict between molecular phylogenetics: the interrelationships of African elephants. Cladistics 21(1), 31-50. Pitix 16:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

New Evidence Establishes Unequivocally That African Savanna Elephant and African Forest Elephant Are Distinct Species
Important research has just been published establishing that the African Savanna and African Forest Elephants are distinct species, as far apart evolutionarily as the Asian Elephant is to the Woolly Mammoth. See Genomic DNA Sequences from Mastodon and Woolly Mammoth Reveal Deep Speciation of Forest and Savanna Elephants. See also Africa has two species of elephants, not one. Moisture (talk) 14:41, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

No good Loxodonta-Elephas hybrids

 * "I suppose its a question of interpretions. In fact, the crossing between the both genus Loxodonta and Elephas is fertile, indicating it should maybe be one genus. Lately it seems DNA research slowly seems to "take" over" reg forking of species, cause with its tecnique is possible to messure genetical distance between populations. Dan Koehl 17:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)"

 * As I understand it, and as is stated elsewhere in Wikipedia (Elephant), there have been, in fact, no hybrids between African and Asian elephants that have survived for more than half a month. All were described as severely deformed and died in their infancy. In this case, the fertility question in this regard seems moot. Not effectively relevant to this whole debate, but . . . —comment added by 209.149.99.2(t/c)

 * Molecular data is unusable to delimit genera in elephants for one reason: unclear rate of molecular evolution. In small primates, with generation times of 1-3 years, the molecular clock has ticked away at approx 1 mutation in 100 bases in the cytochrome b gene in 500.000 years over the last few millions of yers. In turtles, it is one-eigth of that. What is known is that generation time is important, as mutations can only become fixed in lineage by passing them to offspring. What is also known is that ALL data agrees on the African and the Asian elephants and all their more recent ancestors, and their extinct populations, etc pp form 2 distinct clades sister to each other that have been basically evolving in near allopatry for all their existence. It is a matter of opinion whether one considers them genera or superspecies in one genus. Personally, I'd say genera as the morphological differences are pronounced and established (as indicated by fossils); your opinion may differ. Dysmorodrepanis 21:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * "Lately it seems DNA research slowly seems to "take" over" reg forking of species, cause with its tecnique is possible to messure genetical distance between populations" - this is an oversimplification (although I can only give the birds-eye view on the matter). Of course the molecular data, being newly available, forms the centerpiece of recent taxonomic papers. But good scientists take care to include morphology, behavior and other aspects of ecology, and more recently - finally! - biogeography into their interpretations.
 * A purely molecular phylogeny is certainly not hard science, period. The nice phylo-trees (one to three usually, one MP, one ML and one consensus) one finds are created thus: analysis of DNA sequences by software that assumes - wrongly of course, but we cannot at present do it any better - that each base has an equal chance of mutating. The result are hundreds or even thousands of phylogenies that are possible. From these, usually 2 different ones are chosen, the one that is most parsimonious overall, and the one in which each single dichotomy has the highest likelihood of being correct. These are presented, and usually accompanied by a consensus phylogeny should they not differ too much.
 * The problem is obvious: since each of these proposed phylogenies is based on statistical inference (as opposed to factual evidence) alone, they cannot be claimed to be more than probabilistic suggestions that need to be interpreted in the light of additional evidence. Let's suppose we have a bootstrap support of 80% for 2 very distinct genera of mammals, one from North America and one from South Africa, being sister taxa according to the molecular phylogeny. This means that the phylogeny found to be most likely by the software has, as regards this node, an 80% chance to be correct. But what is the probability that this tree is indeed not only the most likely one but the correct one? Depending on this, the likelihood of the genera's relationships being correctly represented may be less than half in fact, and that's even before long branch attraction has been considered.
 * In such cases, the smart scientist will turn to other data to resolve this problem. For example, considering the hypothetical genera of mammals, are fossils known than indicate even closer relatives of both from Europe or South America which have become extinct in the meantime? Also, molecular data can be reinterpreted; for example in woodcreepers, morphological phylogenies placed much emphasis on the bill shape. But this is long known to be unreliable; it works in Hawaiian honeycreepers, but it does not work well in Darwin's finches. The molecular data indeed indicates that bill shapes are unreliable phylogenetic characters in woodcreepers too - but that some subtle characters of the plumage, such as whether there are spots or streaks on the breast, are an excellent indicator of relationships...
 * As always in science, data does not lie. It is the interpretation of data that does. If phylogenies disagree, odds are that characters in at least one of them have been misinterpreted. The spectacular paper allying the dodo with the Nicobar Pigeon, for example, presents a phylogeny that is based on molecular characters entirely. However, this is at odds with that has by now become the consensus phylogeny - based on molecular data, biogeography, and morphology - of pigeons. Conclusion? The Nicobar pigeon may or may not be the dodo's closest living relative; both indeed belong belong to an Indian Ocean radiation of pigeons, but where to place them exactly is not resolvable robustly by the available data.
 * This is not to be considered a critique of molecular phylogenetics per se - the addition of molecular data is perhaps the most ground-breaking event in systematics since phenetics was done away with. But as said above, all the primary data must fit. That two taxa have similar DNA sequences in some 100 bases analyzed does not imply that they are closely related; it merely makes it more likely than not that they are, but if this is contradicted by other evidence, this must be discussed. It cannot be simply assumed that the molecular data is "more correct" than other, and good scientists are aware of this. Dysmorodrepanis 16:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge request
Requested merge: African Pygmy Elephant -> African Forest Elephant.
 * Justification: APE article is stub, AFE article is stubby. APE has been fairly unequivocally shown to be a clearly recognizable morph of AFE, occurring naturally under certain not quite well researched ecological conditions. AFE is a species with bimodal size variation in each sex, with transitional specimens between morpha typica and morpha pumilio being rare but apparently (as evidenced by specimens hard to assign to either) exist, and together with small size of subpopulations of pumilio ensure that the latter cannot become isolated enough to be maintained as a distinct lineage. Note this does not exclude possibility of pumilio having once been a phylo-species at least, eg a Congo Basin isolate of a common ancestor, but the overall pattern of specimens, distribution, field data, and molecular analyses suggests they are not even a subspecies yet. Think peppered moths rather. Dysmorodrepanis 21:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the African Pygmy Elephant is not about a taxon, but merely historical. It is about a species that has once been thought to be in existance. I agree that the article might be improved, though. Ucucha 16:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * They are cryptids. Try merging Bigfoot into ape and you'll run into much the same problem. Merging into Pygmy Elephant would make a great deal more sense, since most of the creatures in that article are also cryptids. I'm putting on some more tags. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 07:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No the APE is not a cryptid nor a species (it is a taxon that is a junior synonym at species rank). There is no reason nowadays to assume that it is anything other than a legit morph/environmental variation of the AFE. Several verified specimens exist, and the morph at least some decades ago was alive and kicking (and there is no really good reason to suppose that the conditions which lead to diminutive size in the AFE are absent nowadays).
 * Try the Comptes Rendus paper which shows that the APE specimens - IIRC the type specimen namely - are indistinguishable from AFE as regards population genetics. Thus the correct taxonomy of the APE would be Loxodonta cyclotis morpha pumilio. The Indian "pygmy elephants" are cryptids bordering on "merely" little-known animals (the difference is that cryptids are unsupported by good material evidence).
 * Though the references from APE need to go into Pygmy Elephant. Overall I think it is best to merge Kallana into the Pygmy Elephant article (since it is at present a fairly well-documented cryptid), and merge the APE article into both Pygmy Elephant (what is not already in there) and (as a separate section) into AFE, and add Loxodonta pumilio to the synonymy of cyclotis.
 * Read the Comptes Rendus paper but bear in mind that APE and AFE have been documented not to mix; reconciliating both lines of evidence will make the matter entirely clear. Dysmorodrepanis 11:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're confused about the definition of a cryptid. Cryptids include animals known to be real that are argued (by cryptozoologists) to be a separate species or subspecies but are not thought so by actual biologists. What can be proven about them has no bearing on their status as cryptids, since that status only has to do with what cryptozoologists say about them. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 18:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As regards the "known animal, unknown taxonomic status", we (biologists) refer tho these as "disputed [species, subspecies]; they are certainly not prominent in the cryptozoological literature I have read (which is quite a lot for someone specializing in traditional zoology). Nobody will keep you from considering them "cryptids", but Forte would disagree. The Martinique Amazon (Amazona martinica) on the other hand is a tried-and-true cryptid, but has not been treated a lot in that literature but rather by "proper" zoologists. There are many such forms, notably the Marquesas Swamphen.
 * In any case, have you read Debruyne et al, and the Böhme/Eisentraut and Noack papers from here? I have, and the inevitable conclusion is that there is a diagnosable entity "African Pygmy Elephant", which cannot be diagnosed as a species by molecular phylogenetics however; mtDNA indicates that there has not been a distinct APE evolutionary lineage for quoite some time, probably never. It is essential to read at least the 3 more recent papers to get a proper understanding of what's going on here (the 2003 study does not discuss the Böhme/Eisentraut work which I was very lucky to get my hands on), but the APE is not a cryptid by any reasonable degree anymore. I could give you a discussion of the whole stuff, geographical population structure, bootstrap value analysis, evolutionary scenarios etc, but that would better go to the page.
 * The best analogy as regards other lifeforms is either the Peppered Moth as mentioned above, or the Mariana Mallard if one assumes the AFE and APE were briefly separating into distinct species but then merged back into one gene pool e.g. at the start of the Holocene.

 * What about Kallana? Merge -> Pygmy Elephant and link from brief discussion under Asian Elephant? Dysmorodrepanis 21:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Moved article back to "African forest elephant"
I've moved this article—again—to "African forest elephant". The previous capitalization is just plain wrong. Neither of those words is a proper noun. This is in keeping with the standard practice here. Please don't move the article back again. +ILike2BeAnonymous 22:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * See WP:BIRD for the rationale of why species names are capitalized on Wikipedia. - UtherSRG (talk) 02:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I realise this is old now, but in case anyone is tempted to revisit it: there are various approaches on Wikipedia - see Naming_conventions_(fauna). For mammals, WikiProject_Animals asks us to stick with the original/primary author's usage. In this case, (s)he used caps --Stfg (talk) 18:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Paper concerning genetics of pygmy elephants
Add the reference below to the References section:

Debruyne, R., Holt, A. van, Barriel, V. & Tassy, P. 2003. Status of the so-called African pygmy elephant (Loxodonta pumilio (NOACK 1906)): phylogeny of cytochrome b and mitochondrial control region sequences. Comptes Rendus de Biologie 326(7):687-697. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.194.116.63 (talk) 02:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

IUCN Red List Status
The IUCN Red List Status of this article is not according to IUCN/SSC, who has faild to include this species (perhaps because it is still not fully recognized as a species of its own). Thus the correct status is NE (Not Evaluated)! Tbjornstad 10:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Done. (Please see under conservation status above for reasoning). --Stfg (talk) 18:12, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Size
I was interested to know, how the size of Loxodonta cyclotis compares to L. africana, but there were no measurements in the article. Here's a useful link, if someone's interested in correcting this fault. The fact that L. cyclotis was considered conspesific with L. africana until recently is probably the reason why there appears to be little data on the subject. --Anshelm '77 (talk) 16:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Population
Autochthony writes: 'quintuple the population in six months' needs some careful phrasing, at best. After all, another six months would have a population 25 times what we started with. Is 'number of known individuals quintupled in six months' what is meant, rather than a population increase of four time what you started with? Autochthony wrote on 6th March 2010 1424z 81.155.135.232 (talk) 14:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the questionable statement. It's not a matter of semantics, it's a matter of tomfoolery.  1) the citations were 13-16 years older than the 'past 6 months' (published in 1994 and 1997), and 2) Stephen Colbert is to blame.  Seriously.  I love Stephen, but the planet just can't support that many fake elephants!!   Erie  lhonan  06:14, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

what is an african bush elephant?
seriously. 99% of the entire article talks only of the genetic distinction between the bush elephant, and the only other paragraph only talks of a conservation achievement. there is 0 in this article to actualy describe what an african forest elephant is. without any information about the forest elephant specifically, it does not need it's own article.· Lygophile   has   spoken  14:00, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * So go through the existing source material, find more source material, and improve the article. Don't forget to cite reliable and verifiable sources. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:10, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Malformed named references
While correcting some accessdate without URL CS1 errors, I noticed a named reference conflict. Named reference "ext2014" linked to both of the following two articles:

I have renamed the second reference "Weber" and at the instances in the article where "ext2014" was cited, I also cited "Weber". Surely this is not correct but somebody with more knowledge will have to be the one to correct it. For example, in the Allen article, I note a claimed ideal population growth rate of 8%, not the 5% shown in the Wikipedia article. I found a URL for the first article and added it to the citation template. The second article was poorly cited in its original form, reversing the chapter and book title as well as reversing chapter authors and book editors, so I have fixed that. It can be at least partially read via a Google Books preview here. Stamptrader (talk) 13:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Reference to this one being the smallest elephant is unclear
The article says it's the smallest of all elephants. The Wiki article on the Borneo elephant says the Borneo is the smallest. The Asian elephants are all of Elephas genus, while the African ones are Loxodonta. Maybe the author wanted to say initially that the African forest elephant is the smallest of the Loxodonta genus?95.37.228.142 (talk) 12:35, 11 April 2016 (UTC)Dmitry The African forest elephant is not the smallest species of elephant(it is the Borneo) however, it is indeed the smallest of the African elephant species(Loxodonta)(Lisha0006 (talk) 04:42, 30 June 2017 (UTC)).

Distribution map is missing West African populations
There must be a more accurate map somewhere.32.211.91.16 (talk) 04:57, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

 * This is the correct map, LoxodontaCyclotisIUCN.svg, someone replaced it with the old one which didn't recognize the WAP complex and West African populations as Loxodonta cyclotis. According to this study, pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1720554115, amongst many others, it's recognized that there is a 700000 year divergence between the Loxodonta cyclotis F population (Sierra Leone sample) and Loxodonta cyclotis A population (Central African Republic sample), and that Gabonese & Cameroonian populations (Western Congo Basin) more closely align with Sierra Leone than with Bili-Uere & Garamba NP populations (Eastern Congo Basin) of Loxodonta cyclotis. There is also admixture from Palaeoloxodon antiquus in Loxodonta cyclotis F (Sierra Leone), with vice versa admixture being apparent at 1/4th the Palaeoloxodon antiquus nuclear genome. There is more than enough evidence to avoid conflation and misstating! 100.12.240.232 (talk) 17:23, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:African forest elephant


text:
Ruben II

Ruben II (Ռուբեն Բ), also Roupen II or Rupen II, (c.1165–1170) was the seventh lord of Armenian Cilicia (1169–1170).

Roupen was the son of Thoros II, lord of Armenian Cilicia, by his second wife (and great niece) whose name is unknown. Thoros II abdicated in favour of his young son Roupen in 1169, and placed Roupen under the guardianship of the Regent Thomas (Thomas was the child’s maternal grandfather). However, Thoros II’s brother, Mleh disputed the succession; Mleh had fled to Nur ad-Din (the emir of Aleppo) and become a Muslim after quarreling with Thoros II and attempting to assassinate him.

Mleh refused an amicable settlement with Regent Thomas regarding the succession to the leadership of Armenian Cilicia and invaded the country with a force provided by Nur ad-Din. Fearing for Roupen’s life, Thomas entrusted the young child into the care of the patriarch Nerses IV Shnorhali in Hromkla (today Rumkale in Turkey) and fled to Antioch. This measure of caution, however, did not save the life of the young Roupen, who was followed by his uncle’s men and murdered at Hromgla.

"Thoros left a child under age, whom he committed, together with the country, to the care of a certain Baron and Baillie Thomas, his father-in-law, with an injunction to deliver to him the country as soon as the child should have attained his majority. Mleh (…) was with the Sultan of Aleppo, and hearing of the death of his brother he came with an army into the country, and dealt very cruelly with its inhabitants. Not being able to conquer the possessions of his brother he returned to Aleppo, and came back with still greater forces. Receiving a message from the Armenian Barons that they would freely acknowledge him as their sovereign, he sent back the Turks, and governed in peace for some time. But he soon drove into exile the Baillie Thomas, who went afterwards to Antioch. The child of Thoros was killed by the command of Mleh by some wicked people."

- Smbat Sparapet: Chronicle

title: Ruben II


text:
X server

X server may refer to:

 * a display server for the X Window System
 * X.Org Server, the X.Org Foundation's display server for the X Window System
 * HPE Integrity Superdome X Server, a line of HPE Integrity Servers

title: X server


text:
Eduard Tubin

Eduard Tubin ( – 17 November 1982) was an Estonian composer, conductor, and choreographer.

Life
Tubin was born in Torila, Tartu County, Governorate of Livonia, then part of the Russian Empire. Both his parents were music lovers, and his father played trombone in the village band. His first taste of music came at school where he learned the flute. Later, his father swapped a cow for a piano, and the young Eduard soon became known in the village for his playing. Eduard also played flute in the village orchestra.

Tubin entered the Tartu Teacher's College in the newly independent Estonia in 1920. It was here he began to take an interest in composition. In 1924 he was admitted to the Tartu Higher Music School starting his studies under the guidance of the famous Estonian composer Heino Eller. He married a fellow student, Linda Pirn, in 1930 and their son Rein was born in 1932. Tubin took up work conducting in the Vanemuine theatre. During this time he also conducted one of the best-known male choirs and made several trips abroad. In 1938 he met Zoltán Kodály in Hungary, who encouraged his interest in folk songs. In 1941 he married the ballet dancer Elfriede Saarik. Their son Eino was born in 1942.

Following the Soviet re-occupation of Estonia in 1944, Tubin fled to Stockholm with his wife Erika and sons Rein and Eino. He remained in Sweden and became a Swedish citizen in 1961, although he did visit Estonia on occasions. He was offered work at the historical Drottningholm Palace Theatre restoring old operas. This left him time to devote himself to his own composition. Here he wrote most of his greatest works, including two operas, symphonies 5–10, a second concerto for violin, one concerto for double-bass and one for balalaika, a piano concertino, much piano and violin music, choir and solo songs etc. Towards the end of his life, Tubin slowly began to gain recognition, particularly after the conductor Neeme Järvi, also an Estonian, escaped to the United States in 1980. In the last year of his life his Tenth Symphony was performed on 5 concerts by the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Tubin received several Swedish music awards and was elected member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Music. After a long illness he died on 17 November 1982 in Stockholm.

Style
Tubin often used Estonian folk music in his works, for instance in the Sinfonietta on Estonian motifs. His ballet Kratt is entirely based on folk tunes. In 1938 Tubin had visited the Estonian island of Hiiumaa to collect folk songs. Tubin was also a very good orchestrator, and this can be heard particularly in the Third and Fourth symphonies.

A change took place in Tubin's style at the end of the 1940s; the music became harmonically more astringent. The finale of the seventh symphony makes much use of a theme with all twelve notes, though it is tonal. The shift to a less nationalistic and more international style came after Tubin had fled Estonia to Sweden.

Tubin is perhaps not better known because of his displacement. Although Estonia claims him as one of their greatest composers, most of his composing was done in Sweden, which never gave him the attention he was due. Tubin is gaining recognition, however, particularly for his later symphonies and the Second Piano Sonata, which are recognised as masterpieces. Most of his works have been recorded (there are two complete recorded sets of his symphonies, conducted by Neeme Järvi and Arvo Volmer). In June 2005 the city of Tallinn observed the centennial of his birth with a festival where all of his symphonies and much of his piano and chamber music was performed. A statue of Tubin was erected in Tartu.

A Tubin Museum was opened at Alatskivi Castle near his birthplace in 2011. This has an exhibition about the composer and other members of the "Tartu school" of musicians who studied under Heino Eller including Alfred Karindi, Eduard Oja, Olav Roots and Karl Leichter. The International Eduard Tubin Society was founded in Estonia in 2000. Its most important task is to produce an academically correct edition of his collected works, a work which is well in progress.

Selected works

 * Orchestra
 * Symphony No. 1 in C minor (1931–1934)
 * Symphony No. 2 in B minor "Legendary" (1937)
 * Symphony No. 3 in D minor "Heroic" (1940–1942, revised 1968)
 * Symphony No. 4 in A "Lyrical" (1943, revised 1978)
 * Symphony No. 5 in B minor (1946)
 * Symphony No. 6 (1953–1954, revised 1956) (first version premiered September 1955 by Tor Mann )
 * Symphony No. 7 (1955–1958)
 * Symphony No. 8 (1965–1966)
 * Symphony No. 9 "Sinfonia semplice" (1969)
 * Symphony No. 10 (1973)
 * Symphony No. 11 (incomplete)
 * Suite on Estonian Themes (1929–30)
 * Toccata (1937)
 * Prelude Solennel (1940)
 * Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs (1940)
 * Music for Strings (1962–1963)

 * Concertante
 * Violin Concerto No. 1 in D major (1941–1942)
 * Concertino for Piano and Orchestra (1944–1945)
 * Violin Concerto No. 2 in G minor (1945)
 * Double Bass Concerto (1948)
 * Cello Concerto (unfinished - piano score, 1954–1955)
 * Balalaika Concerto (1963–1964)

 * Opera, ballet and choral works
 * Kratt, ballet in 4 acts (1938–1940, 2nd version 1940–1941, 3rd version 1959–1960); libretto Erika Saarik
 * Inauguration Cantata for baritone, reciter, chorus and orchestra (1958)
 * Barbara von Tisenhusen, opera in 3 acts (1967–1968); libretto Jaan Kross after a short story by Aino Kallas
 * The Parson of Reigi (Reigi õpetaja), opera (1970–1971); libretto Aino Kallas, completed by Jaan Kross
 * Requiem for Fallen Soldiers (1950, rev. 1979); text by Henrik Visnapuu and Marie Under

 * Chamber music
 * Piano Sonata No.1 (1928)
 * Piano Sonata No. 2 "Northern Lights" (1950)
 * Violin Sonata No.1 (1934–1936, revised 1968–1969)
 * Capriccio No.1 for Violin and Piano (1937, revised 1971)
 * Pastorale for Viola and Organ (1956)
 * Viola Sonata (1964–1965)
 * Alto Saxophone Sonata (1951)
 * Piano Quartet in C♯ minor (ETW 59, 1929–30)
 * String Quartet (ETW 64, 1979)

title: Eduard Tubin


text:
Rahim Ademi

Rahim Ademi (born 30 January 1954) is a retired Croatian Army general of Kosovar Albanian origin.

Born and raised in the village of Karač, Vushtrri, Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (modern day Kosovo), Ademi graduated from the Yugoslav Military Academy in Belgrade in 1976. He was assigned to a station in Rogoznica near Šibenik in Croatia where he married and had two children.

In 1986, the Military Court in Sarajevo convicted him of counterrevolutionary acts and Albanian irredentism, but after serving a year and a half in prison, the Supreme Military Court agreed with his appeal and acquitted him. He would spend the next years serving as an officer in Sinj until 1990 when the war in Croatia was starting and he deserted the Yugoslav People's Army in order to help create Croatian army formations.

He officially joined the Ministry of the Interior in 1991 and later became part of the Croatian Army forces during the Croatian War of Independence. Between 1992 and 1993, as a Brigadier, he commanded Croatian military units in the Sinj area, with particular responsibility for the Peruća Dam. In 1993 he was assigned to the post of sub commander of the Gospić military district, but was relieved of duty later that year, after the controversial Operation Medak pocket. He later served as a sub-commander of the Split military district and was promoted to brigadier general for his achievements in Operation Storm in 1995. He remained there until 1999 when he was reassigned to the post of the Assistant Chief Inspector of the Armed Forces in Zagreb.

In 2001, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) indicted Ademi for crimes against humanity allegedly committed against the Croatian Serbs in the Medak pocket. He was originally in the custody of the Court but was later allowed to prepare his defense free. In November 2005, in line with its completion strategy, the ICTY referred the Ademi-Norac case to the Croatian judiciary. The trial began on 18 June 2007 in front of a special bench of the Zagreb County Court with Judge Marin Mrčela presiding.

Ademi claims that the Croatian government, under international pressure, relieved him of duty in Gospić in 1993 in order to make him a scapegoat, rather than implicating commanding officers Janko Bobetko, Mirko Norac and Mladen Markač. He alleged that the Tribunal wanted him for questioning as far back as 1998 but the government did not allow him to answer their questions. On 30 May 2008, he was acquitted by the Zagreb County Court of responsibility for atrocities committed against Serb prisoners by Croat troops during Operation Medak Pocket.

In March 2010, the Supreme Court of Croatia upheld Ademi's acquittal.

During campaign for the 2014–15 presidential election, Ademi worked as a co-coordinator for Ivo Josipović.

title: Rahim Ademi


text:
Orquesta Filarmónica de Jalisco

The Jalisco Philharmonic Orchestra (Spanish: Orquesta Filarmónica de Jalisco) is a Mexican orchestra. It was established in 1912 by José Rolón as the Guadalajara Symphonic Orchestra in Guadalajara, Jalisco in Mexico. The Orchestra resides at Teatro Degollado located in the historic district of Guadalajara.

It has been conducted by Enrique Bátiz, Neeme Järvi, Plácido Domingo, Mu-Hai Tang, Claudio Abbado, Antal Doráti, Eduardo Mata and Charles Dutoit. Alondra de la Parra was the artistic director from 2012 to 2013. Jesús Medina debuted as the orchestra's music director in February of 2019.

title: Orquesta Filarmónica de Jalisco


text:
Legendary Tamil Sangams

The Tamil Sangams (Tamil: சங்கம் caṅkam, Old Tamil 𑀘𑀗𑁆𑀓𑀫𑁆, from Sanskrit saṅgha) were three legendary gatherings of Tamil scholars and poets that, according to traditional Tamil accounts, occurred in the remote past. Scholars believe that these assemblies were originally known as kooṭam or "gathering,"  which was also a name for Madurai. Three assemblies are described. The legend has it that the first two were held in cities since "taken by the sea", the first being called Kapatapuram, and the third was held in the present-day city of Madurai.

Historical Sangam period and Sangam literature
The historical Sangam period, alluding to the Sangam-legends, extended from roughly 300-200 BCE to 300 CE (early Chola period before the interregnum). In this period the earliest extant works of Tamil literature were written (also known as Sangam literature), dealing with love, war, governance, trade and bereavement. The name Sangam and the associated legends probably derive from a much later period.

The name Sangam and the legend are probably from a much later period. "Sangam" is aso known as koodal (Tamil: கூடல்) or "gathering".

An accurate chronological assessment of literary works has been rendered difficult due to lack of concrete scientific evidence to support conflicting claims.Undue reliance on the Sangam legends has thus culminated in controversial opinions or interpretations among scholars, confusion in the dates, names of authors, and doubts of even their existence in some cases. The earliest archaeological evidence connecting Madurai and the Sangams is the 10th century Cinnamanur inscription of the Pandyas.

Three legendary Sangams
According to Tamil legends, there were three Sangams.

Whilst the accounts of first two Sangams are generally rejected as ahistorical, some modern scholars, such as Kamil Zvelebil, find a kernel of truth in them, suggesting that they may be based on one or more actual historical assemblies. Others reject the entire notion as not factual. Nevertheless, legends of the Sangams played a significant role in inspiring political, social, and literary movements in Tamil Nadu in the early 20th century.

Early literature from the pre-Pallava dynasty period does not contain any mention of the Sangam academies, although some early poems imply a connection between the city of Madurai, which later legends associate with the third Sangam, and Tamil literature and the cultivation of the language. The earliest express references to the academies are found in the songs of Appar and Sampandar, Shaivite poets who lived in the 7th century. The first full account of the legend is found in a commentary to the Iraiyanar Akapporul by Nakkīrar (c. 7th/8th century CE). Nakkīrar describes three "Sangams" (caṅkam) spanning thousands of years.

There are a number of other isolated references to the legend of academies at Madurai scattered through Shaivite and Vaishnavite devotional literature throughout later literature. The next substantive references to the legend of the academies, however, appear in two significantly later works, namely, the Thiruvilaiyadal Puranam of Perumpaṟṟapuliyūr Nambi, and the better-known work of the same title by Paranjothi Munivar. These works describe a legend that deals mostly with the third Sangam at Madurai, and is so substantially different from that set out in Nakkirar's commentary that some authors such as Zvelebil speculate that it may be based on a different, and somewhat independent, tradition.

In contemporary versions of the legend, the cities where the first two Sangams were held are said to have been located on Kumari Kandam, a fabled lost continent, that lay to the South of mainland India, and which was described as the cradle of Tamil culture.

Kumari Kandam supposedly lay south of present-day Kanyakumari District and, according to these legends, was seized by the sea in a series of catastrophic floods.

First legendary Sangam
The First Sangam is also known as the First Academy, and as the Head Sangam.

The first Sangam (mutaṟcaṅkam) is described as having been held at "the Madurai which was submerged by the sea", or known among historians as Kapatapuram, lasted a total of 4400 years, and had 549 members, which supposedly included some gods of the Hindu pantheon such as Siva, Kubera, Murugan and Agastya. A city was found submerged in Pondicherry and according to the location, has been popularly credited as being the site for the first Sangam, Kapatapuram. A total of 4449 poets are described as having composed songs for this Sangam. There were 89 Pandiya kings starting from Kaysina valudi to Kadungon were decedents and rulers of that period.

It was said to be located in Then Madurai under the patronage of 89 Pandya kings. It is said to have lasted for 4,440 years, and this would put the First Sangam between 9600 BCE to 5200 BCE.

Some are of the opinion that Agathiyar was the head of the Head Sangam. However, this is unlikely as the first mention of him is from Ptolemy and no Sangam work refers to him. A more likely proposition is Lord Muruga (Kartikeya) being the head of the First Sangam as believed by others.

Its function was to judge literary works and credit their worth. Later literary works like Iraiyanar Akaporul mention that 549 poets were members of it including Shiva, Murugan, Kuperan and seven Pandya kings. And 16,149 authors attended the convocation. Its chief works were Perumparipadal, Mudukuruku, Mudunarai and Kalariyavirai. It used Agattiyam as its grammar. There are no surviving works from this period.

Muranjiyur Mudinagar, a member of the first Tamil Sangam, is believed to have been a king of the Nagas in Jaffna. Siddha medicine is said to have been practiced during the First Sangam, and people "enjoyed mental and bodily health, respecting nature and living hygienically."

Iraiyanar Kalaviyal mentions that a King Kadungon was the last ruler during the Talaiccankam. He is not to be confused with Kadungon who defeated the Kalabhras. It was washed away in a sea-deluge. This led to the Middle Sangam.

Second legendary sangam
The Second Sangam (iṭaicaṅkam) is also known as the Middle Sangam (Tamil: இடை சங்கம்) and the Second Academy. It was convened in Kapatapuram. This Sangam lasted for 3700 years and had 59 members, with 3700 poets participating. There were 59 Pandiya kings starting from Vendercceliyan to Mudattirumaran were decedents and rulers of that period. This city was also submerged in sea.

The primary factors leading to the formation of the Middle Sangam was mentioned by Iraiyanar, one of the authors of Kurunthogai, who mentions the kingdom of a King named Kandungon, the last ruler during the First Sangam. It was washed away in a sea-erosion. This led to the Second Sangam.

The second Sangam was convened in Kapatapuram. This Sangam lasted for 3700 years and had 59 members, with 1700 poets participating. There were 59 Pandiya kings starting from Vendercceliyan to Mudattirumaran were decedents and rulers of that period. This city was also submerged in sea. Ramayana and Arthashastra of Kautalya corroborates the existence of a city named Kavatapuram. There is a reference to a South Indian place called Kavata by Sugriva in a verse which runs something like 'having reached Kavata suitable for Pandiya'. Kavata is also mentioned by Kautalya in Arthashastra. The grammar followed was Budapuranam, Agattiyam, Tholkappiyam, Mapuranam and Isai Nunukkam. The poems attributed to second academy are Kali, Kurugu, Vendali and Viyalamalai Ahaval.

Third legendary Sangam

The third Sangam (kaṭaicaṅkam) was purportedly located in the current city of Madurai and lasted for 1850 years. There were 49 Pandiya kings starting from Mudattirumaran (who came away from Kabadapuram to present Madurai) to Ukkirapperu Valudi were decedents and rulers of that period. The academy had 49 members, and 449 poets are described as having participated in the Sangam.

The Third Sangam (kaṭaicaṅkam) was purportedly located in the current city of Madurai and lasted for 1850 years. There were 49 Pandiya kings starting from Mudattirumaran (who came away from Kabadapuram to present Madurai) to Ukkirapperu valudi were descendants and rulers of that gathering. The academy had 49 members, and 449 poets are described as having participated in the Sangam. The grammars followed were Agattiyam and Tholkappiyam. The poems composed were Kurunthogai, Netunthogai, Kurunthogai Nanooru, Narrinai Nanooru, Purananooru, Aingurunooru, Padirrupaatu, Kali, Paripaadal, Kuttu, Vari, Sirrisai and Perisai.

There are a number of other isolated references to the legend of academies at Madurai scattered through Shaivite and Vaishnavite devotional literature throughout later literature.

In Nambi's account, the 49 members of the third Sangam led by Kapilar, Paraṇar and Nakkīrar were great devotees of Shiva, numbered amongst the 63 nayanars. Nakkirar himself is said to have later headed the Sangam, and to have debated Shiva. The Sangam is described as having been held on the banks of the Pond of Golden Lotuses in the Meenakshi-Sundaresvarar Temple in Madurai.

Historicity
According to P. T. Srinivasa Iyengar who made research on this topic mentions in his book "History of Tamils" Chapter XVI on topic "Criticism of the legend", as the years mentioned for the Three Tamil Sangams are too vast.

 * The First Sangam lasted 4440 years and spanned 89 succeeding kings.
 * The Second Sangam lasted 3700 years and spanned 59 succeeding kings.
 * The Third Sangam lasted 1800 years and spanned 49 succeeding kings.

According to Kamil Zvelebil, the assemblies may have been founded and patronised by the Pandian kings and functioning in three different capitals consecutively till the last sangam was set up in Madurai. Zvelebil argues that the appearance of the tradition in literary and epigraphical sources means that it cannot be dismissed as pure fiction. He suggests that the Sangam legends are based on a historical "body of scholiasts and grammarians 'sits' as a norm-giving, critical college of literary experts, and shifts its seat according to the geopolitical conditions of the Pandiyan kingdom."

In 470 CE, a Dravida Sangha was established in Madurai by a Jain named Vajranandi. During that time the Tamil region was ruled by the Kalabhras dynasty. The Kalabhra rulers were followers of either Buddhism or Jainism. The Dravida Sangha took much interest in the Tamil language and literature. George L. Hart suggests that later legends about Tamil Sangams may have been based on the Jaina assembly.

title: Legendary Tamil Sangams


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Talk:Gorki Leninskiye

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What is meant by "the Moscow head Reinbot"? Is this a person, or an organisation, or what?? JackofOz 05:32, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * He was a head of Moscow. Drbug 09:41, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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I can only reiterate my previous question. What on earth do you mean by "a head of Moscow"? Do you mean the Mayor of Moscow, or some political leader, or ....???? Please be clear and unambiguous in stating exactly what you are talking about. Cheers. JackofOz 00:55, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Head of city is similar to western mayor, but Russian office title is not translated as "mayor". I personally don't see "head of Moscow" ambiguous - from my point of view, it doesn't imply political leadership... I appreciate any good ideas how to make it clear! Drbug 12:14, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gorki Leninskiye


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Talk:Lists of video games

"Video game list list" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Video game list list. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC  678  03:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

List of PC games
There is a index of Windows games, and also a list of PC games and the list of PC games include Windows, should there be two lists of the same platform? StarStorm10 (talk) 13:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lists of video games


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User:Xakkkk

xakkkk is here xakkkk is there he ain't goin' anywhere

/** please contribute **/

title: User:Xakkkk


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Homicide: Life on the Street

Homicide: Life on the Street is an American police drama television series chronicling the work of a fictional version of the Baltimore Police Department's Homicide Unit. It ran for seven seasons and 122 episodes on NBC from January 31, 1993, to May 21, 1999, and was succeeded by Homicide: The Movie (2000), which served as the series finale. The series was created by Paul Attanasio and based on David Simon's book Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets (1991). Many of the characters and stories used throughout the show were based on events depicted in the book.

While Homicide featured an ensemble cast, Andre Braugher emerged as a breakout star through his portrayal of Detective Frank Pembleton. The show won TCA Award for Outstanding Achievement in Drama in 1996, 1997, and 1998. It also became the first drama ever to win three George Foster Peabody Awards for Drama, those being in 1993, 1995, and 1997. It received recognition from the Directors Guild of America Awards, Humanitas Prize, Viewers for Quality Television Awards, Writers Guild of America Awards and Primetime Emmy Awards. In 1997, the fifth-season episode "Prison Riot" was ranked No. 32 on TV Guide's 100 Greatest Episodes of All Time.

In 1996, TV Guide named the series "The Best Show You're Not Watching". The show placed #46 on Entertainment Weekly "New TV Classics" list. In 2007, it was listed as one of TIME magazine's "Best TV Shows of All-TIME." In 2013, TV Guide ranked it #55 on its list of the 60 Best Series of All Time.

Production
Homicide: Life on the Street was adapted from Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets, a non-fiction book by Baltimore Sun reporter David Simon, based on his experience following a Baltimore Police Department homicide unit in 1988. Simon, who became a consultant and producer with the series, said he was particularly interested in the debunking of the American detective. While detectives are typically portrayed as noble characters who care deeply about their victims, Simon believed real detectives regarded violence as a normal aspect of their jobs.

Simon sent the book to film director and Baltimore native Barry Levinson with the hopes that it would be adapted into a film, but Levinson thought it would be more appropriate material for television because the stories and characters could be developed over a longer period of time. Levinson believed that a television adaptation would bring a fresh and original edge to the police drama genre because the book exploded many of the myths of the police drama genre by highlighting that cops did not always get along with each other and that criminals occasionally got away with their crimes.

Levinson approached screenwriter Paul Attanasio with the material, and Homicide became Attanasio's first foray into television writing. All episodes of Homicide display the credit, "Created by Paul Attanasio" at the end of their opening sequence, a credit which both Eric Overmyer and James Yoshimura dispute on the DVD audio commentary to the season 5 episode, "The Documentary", claiming instead the show was created by Tom Fontana and Yoshimura. The series title was originally Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets, but NBC changed it so that viewers would not believe it was limited to a single year; the network also believed the use of the term "life" would be more reaffirming than the term "killing streets". Levinson was indifferent to the change, asserting that viewers would probably casually refer to the series as "Homicide" in either case. The opening theme music was composed by Baltimore native Lynn F. Kowal, a graduate of the Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

Homicide's purpose was to provide its viewers with a no-nonsense, police procedural-type glimpse into the lives of a squad of inner-city detectives. As opposed to many television shows and movies involving cops, Homicide initially opted for a bleak sort of realism in its depiction of "The Job", portraying it as repetitive, spiritually draining, an existential threat to one's psyche, often glamour- and glory-free—but, nonetheless, a social necessity. In its attempt to do so, Homicide developed a trademark feel and look that distinguished itself from its contemporaries. For example, the series was filmed with hand-held 16 mm cameras almost entirely on-location in Baltimore (making the idiosyncratic city something of a character itself). It also regularly used music montages, jump cut editing, and the three-times-in-a-row repetition of the same camera shot during particularly crucial moments in the story. The episodes were also noted for interweaving as many as three or four storylines in a single episode. NBC executives often asked the writers to focus on a single homicide case rather than multiple ones, but the show producers tended to resist this advice.

Despite premiering in the coveted post-Super Bowl time slot, the show opened to lackluster ratings, and cancellation was an immediate threat. However, the show's winning of two Emmy Awards (for Levinson's direction of "Gone for Goode" and Fontana's writing of "Three Men and Adena") and the success of another police drama—the more sensational NYPD Blue—helped convince NBC to give it another chance beyond the truncated, nine-episode-long first season. Homicide consistently ranked behind ABC's 20/20 and CBS's Nash Bridges in the Nielsen ratings. Despite the poor ratings, reviews were consistently strong from the beginning of the series. Commentators were especially impressed with the high number of strong, complex, well-developed and non-stereotypical African American characters like Pembleton, Lewis and Giardello.

The police department scenes were shot at the historic City Recreation Pier in Fells Point neighborhood in Baltimore. Although NBC occasionally pressured the show's producers to write happy endings to the homicide cases, the network gave an unusual amount of freedom for the writers to create darker stories and non-traditional detective story elements, like unsolved cases where criminals escape. Nevertheless, in its attempt to improve Homicide's ratings, NBC often insisted on changes, both cosmetic and thematic. For example, by the beginning of the third season, talented but unphotogenic veteran actor Jon Polito had been ordered dropped from the cast.

The show was originally a production of Baltimore Pictures in association with Thames Television's subsidiary studio Reeves Entertainment, an American studio. In between the first and second season, Reeves had closed due to Pearson plc's acquisition of their parent company Thames, and the latter's requirement of either spinning off the studio or transferring their existing properties still in production which included Home in late 1993. After the four-episode second season had aired, NBC negotiated with Thames and MCEG Sterling Entertainment, who oversaw and held interest on the Homicide property on behalf of Thames, on the show's renewal for an order for a third season alongside taking over co-ownership, co-production duties, and copyright, though Pearson (whose television division and library is now owned by Fremantle) continued to hold international distribution rights outside of North America.

The reality of Homicide's low Nielsen ratings hovered over all things, however, and always left the show in a precarious position; it also had a harder time gaining a large audience because fewer viewers are at home watching TV on Friday nights. Despite this, the network managed to keep what TV Guide referred to as "The Best Show You're Not Watching" on the air for five full seasons and seven seasons in all. In July 1997, NBC gave the series producers an ultimatum to make Homicide more popular than Nash Bridges or face cancellation. When this goal was not reached, the studio gave serious consideration to canceling the show, but a number of shocks at NBC increased Homicide's value. Among those factors were the loss of the popular series Seinfeld and the $850 million deal needed to keep ER from leaving the network.

Re-runs of Homicide were, at one time, syndicated on Lifetime and Court TV as well as the all-crime television cable station Sleuth, and re-aired on WGN America. Episodes of Homicide have re-aired on TNT as part of several crossovers the series had with Law & Order, for which TNT owns the broadcast rights. In these cases, both crossover episodes re-aired back to back. Its re-runs were recently televised on the Centric channel.

All seven seasons are available on DVD. One DVD set combines the first two seasons. Additional sets contain the complete third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh seasons. A boxed set shaped like a filing cabinet features an additional disc containing Homicide: The Movie and the relevant Law & Order crossover episodes – those without this disc had to rely on Law & Order recap clips on the season DVDs. Significantly, the DVDs contain the episodes in the producers' intended order, not the order in which NBC aired them.

The show has spawned changes in the real life Baltimore Homicide Unit. As seen in the show, the unit originally used a dry-erase board in order to visually track detectives' progress at solving crimes. After the show began to air, the Baltimore Police Department discontinued the practice, believing the board, which concentrated on "clearance rates" for crimes, had a negative impact on publicity. It was brought back later at the insistence of the detectives.

Recurring cast members
Homicide featured a number of recurring characters, who starred alongside the ensemble. Wendy Hughes (Carol Blythe), Ami Brabson (Mary Pembleton) and Željko Ivanek (Ed Danvers) are the most notable, with the first appearing in Season 1, and the other two appearing in Seasons 1–6 and Seasons 1–7 respectively. Clayton LeBouef played Captain and later Colonel George Barnfather throughout the run. Ralph Tabakin played Dr. Scheiner in all seven seasons. The recurring cast also included: Gerald F. Gough as Colonel Burt Granger (seasons 1–3); Lee Tergesen as Officer Chris Thormann (seasons 1, 3 and 5); Sean Whitesell as Dr. Eli Devilbiss (seasons 1, 3, 4, 6 and 7); Michael Willis as Darin Russom (seasons 1–7); Sharon Ziman as Naomi (seasons 1–7); Judy Thornton as Judy (seasons 2–7); Herb Levinson as Dr. Lausanne (seasons 2–7); Gary D'Addario as Lieutenant Jasper (seasons 3–7); Walt MacPherson as Captain Roger Gaffney (seasons 3–7); Harlee McBride as Alyssa Dyer (seasons 3–7); Rhonda Overby as Reporter Dawn Daniels (seasons 3–7); Kristin Rohde as Officer Sally Rogers (seasons 3–7); Mary B. Ward as Beth Felton (season 3); Christopher Meloni as bounty hunter Dennis Knoll (season 7); Erik Dellums as Luther Mahoney (seasons 4 and 5); Mekhi Phifer as Junior Bunk (seasons 5 and 6); Hazelle Goodman as Georgia Rae Mahoney (season 6); Ellen McElduff as Billie Lou Hatfield (seasons 5–7); Austin Pendleton as Dr. George Griscom (season 7), and Jason Stanford as Joe Ryblack (seasons 6 and 7). Joey Perillo as Bernard Munch (Seasons 3 and 6).

Notable guest appearances
A number of well-known actors and celebrities appeared on the show, including Steve Allen, Lewis Black, Wilford Brimley, Steve Burns, Steve Buscemi, Bruce Campbell, Joan Chen, Vincent D'Onofrio, Jeffrey Donovan, Tate Donovan, Charles Durning, Charles S. Dutton, Richard Edson, Kathryn Erbe, Edie Falco, Peter Gallagher, Paul Giamatti, John Glover, Moses Gunn, Luis Guzmán, Jake Gyllenhaal, Marcia Gay Harden, Neil Patrick Harris, Pat Hingle, James Earl Jones, Terry Kinney, Bruno Kirby, Tony LoBianco, Julianna Margulies, Jena Malone, Anne Meara, Christopher Meloni, David Morse, Terry O'Quinn, Joe Perry, Chris Rock, J. K. Simmons, Fisher Stevens, Jerry Stiller (in a different season from wife Anne Meara), Eric Stoltz, Tony Todd, Lily Tomlin, Kate Walsh, Isaiah Washington, John Waters, Robin Williams, Dean Winters, Elijah Wood, and Alfre Woodard. Jason Priestley joined the cast in the climactic television movie, during which his character referred to Pembleton and Bayliss as "legends". Typically, well-known actors making guest appearances on Homicide were cast in fully developed roles central to the episode in which they appeared. Robin Williams's portrayal of a grieving widower and father in the second-season episode, "Bop Gun", is a notable example, as is Steve Buscemi's role as a suspected gunman in the third-season episode "End Game".

Some celebrities made cameo appearances that were more lighthearted in style. Director (and Baltimore native) John Waters—who called the show "the grittiest, best-acted, coolest-looking show on TV" —appeared twice, once as a nameless bartender listening to a disconsolate Detective Bolander, and another time as a talkative prisoner transferred from New York to Baltimore by Detective Mike Logan (played by Chris Noth). Waters and Noth received "special thanks" in the episode's closing credits. Out traveling on his motorcycle, Jay Leno stopped in at the Waterfront to have a soft drink, quickly departing after finding his bartenders strangely silent. In one particularly self-referential episode, journalist Tim Russert appeared as himself, bickering about birthday presents with his "cousin", Lieutenant Megan Russert. Film director Barry Levinson, who also executive produced Homicide, acted as himself directing an episode for a show-within-a-show called Homicide in the episode, "The Documentary".

Psychobilly legend The Reverend Horton Heat made a brief appearance as Preacher Lemuel Galvin, a resident at a motel where the killing of a biker is investigated.

The Mayor of Baltimore (Kurt Schmoke) and the Governor of Maryland (Parris Glendening) made brief appearances in the episode about the death of Beau Felton, appearing at the memorial press conference for Felton's death in the line of duty.

Recurring characters of particular note include the Mahoney crime family. Luther Mahoney, played by Erik Dellums, appears in seasons four and five. Mahoney is a crime and drug kingpin who uses others to do his dirty work and masterfully manipulates the law to repeatedly escape conviction and hide his connection to the crimes committed by his underlings. At first, he is depicted as an almost friendly rival, with both Mahoney and the police mutually amused by Mahoney's antics. Gradually, however, the police—particularly Kellerman and Lewis—grow frustrated with Mahoney, until Lewis viciously beats him during an arrest, and Kellerman fatally shoots Mahoney under questionable circumstances.

In the following season, the Mahoney organization is taken over by Luther's sister Georgia Rae, played by Hazelle Goodman, who seeks both legal and illegal revenge against the Baltimore Police Department.

Mekhi Phifer makes several appearances as Junior Bunk, a dim-witted street thug who is initially depicted as someone with the potential to go straight. His crimes grow increasingly violent, however, and in his final appearance he is revealed to be Georgia Rae's son, with the real name "Nathaniel Lee Mahoney". Junior's final appearance takes place after the character has been hardened by jail time, and the once minor criminal deals the homicide department a major blow with a multiple shooting in the police station, killing three uniformed cops and injuring two of the detectives. In retaliation, the police declare all-out war on the Mahoney crime organization. Several cops, including Bayliss, are injured, and several criminals, including Georgia Rae, are killed as the Mahoney empire collapses. Pembleton interrogates Kellerman and figures out that Luther Mahoney had his gun out but wasn't pointing it at Kellerman when he was shot and killed, and demands Kellerman turn in his badge. Kellerman refuses, but later meets with Giardello and accepts a deal: no charges will be brought against him, and Lewis and Stivers will be fully cleared, if he immediately resigns from the job. Kellerman does so, but when Pembleton finds out about the deal, he tells Gee he can't morally continue in the job anymore and resigns as well.

Seasons 1 and 2
The first season saw the introductions of Detectives Frank Pembleton (Andre Braugher), Stan Bolander (Ned Beatty), Kay Howard (Melissa Leo), Meldrick Lewis (Clark Johnson), John Munch (Richard Belzer), Tim Bayliss (Kyle Secor), Beau Felton (Daniel Baldwin) and Steve Crosetti (Jon Polito), as well as the Commander, Lieutenant Al Giardello (Yaphet Kotto).

Season 3
The third season saw the first changes in the character lineup; when Detective Steve Crosetti (Jon Polito) was not seen in any episodes, his body was found in a death by suicide in the sixth episode of the season. Isabella Hofmann joined the cast as Lieutenant Megan Russert, the commander of the other Homicide shift, it also dealt with her promotion to captain, and saw the last appearances of Felton and Bolander (Daniel Baldwin and Ned Beatty).

Seasons 4 and 5
The fourth season saw the departure of Daniel Baldwin and Ned Beatty, who played Beau Felton and Stan Bolander respectively. In the story, the two detectives had recently been given a 22-week suspension, as related in the opening scene of the season's first episode. Bolander went on to retirement, and Felton, recruited for deep undercover work, was killed (off-screen) in the line of duty during the fifth season. The characters returned in the movie. This season also sees Mike Kellerman (Reed Diamond) join the cast. Isabella Hofmann (newly demoted, Detective Megan Russert) left at the end of Season 4, but returned in the Season 5 finale, in which she, Kay Howard (Melissa Leo) and J. H. Brodie (Max Perlich) made their last appearances. Season 5 also saw the addition of Chief Medical Examiner Julianna Cox (Michelle Forbes) and Detective Terri Stivers (Toni Lewis).

Season 6
The sixth season was the first not to feature Leo as Sergeant Kay Howard, and the last to feature Braugher as Detective Frank Pembleton and Forbes as Chief Medical Examiner Julianna Cox. Jon Seda, Callie Thorne and Peter Gerety joined the cast as Detectives Paul Falsone, Laura Ballard and Stuart Gharty. J.H. Brodie (Max Perlich) is no longer present, nor is Detective Meg Russert (Isabella Hofmann).

Season 7
Following the events of the sixth-season finale, Detective Frank Pembleton (Braugher) and Detective Mike Kellerman (Diamond) are no longer regulars; neither is Chief Medical Examiner Julianna Cox (Forbes), who left mid-season. Braugher and Forbes did not return until the movie, while Diamond made a two-episode guest appearance. Michael Michele stars in this season as Detective Rene Sheppard and Giancarlo Esposito is cast as Giardello's son Mike, who is assigned to Homicide as an FBI Liaison.

Homicide: The Movie
In 2000, following the conclusion of the series, a television film titled Homicide: The Movie was shown on NBC. The squad's former Lieutenant, Al Giardello, was running for mayor on a controversial pro-drug-legalization platform, and is close to victory when he is gunned down. The assassination attempt inspires the return of the entire unit, past and present, in an effort to apprehend the gunman.

Crossovers
Homicide: Life on the Street executive producer Tom Fontana and Law & Order creator Dick Wolf became close friends in the 1980s while working as writers in the same building, at the same time, on the series St. Elsewhere (Fontana) and Hill Street Blues (Wolf).

In the 1990s, the two friends decided to do a small crossover between their (then) current shows, with Law & Order NYPD Detective Mike Logan (Chris Noth) delivering a fugitive to Homicide: Life on the Street's Detective Frank Pembleton during the prologue of the third-season episode "Law & Disorder".

The concept proved popular with fans and with both Fontana and Wolf. As of the 2015–2016 television season, this first crossover by Wolf has been followed by 15 other crossover stories in his numerous Law & Order and Chicago franchises. Fontana expanded the Homicide: Life on the Street crossovers to include characters from St. Elsewhere, years after that series had ended its run. Wolf would adopt the same post-cancellation crossover concept when Homicide: Life on the Street characters Meldrick Lewis and Billie Lou Hatfield (Ellen McElduff) appeared, 14 years after their series ended, at John Munch's retirement party from the NYPD on the Law & Order: Special Victims Unit episode "Wonderland Story".

Home media
New Video (through A&E Home Video and NBC Home Entertainment) released all seven seasons of Homicide: Life on the Street on DVD in Region 1 between 2003 and 2005. The Television film Homicide: The Movie was released on DVD in Region 1 by Trimark Pictures on May 22, 2001. A&E Home Entertainment also released a complete series set in collectible 'file cabinet' packaging on November 14, 2006. The complete series was subsequently re-released in regular packaging on October 20, 2009. FremantleMedia handled distribution rights of all 7 seasons via International.

On April 5, 2017, it was announced that Shout! Factory had acquired the rights to the series in Region 1 and would re-release Homicide: Life on the Street - The Complete Series on DVD on July 4, 2017.

In Australia, Region 4, the releases were the same as the Region 2 release. These were distributed by Roadshow Entertainment. The Complete Series collection was distributed by Shock Entertainment and packaged as the Region 1 releases with Series 1 & 2 and Series 3 through to 7. Via Vision Entertainment obtained the rights to the series and released 'The Complete Series (Special Edition)' boxset in May 2021 in the same format of the shock releases.

As of September 7, 2023, the show is not available on any streaming service, nor is it available for purchase or rent from Amazon, iTunes, or Google Play.

On June 17, 2024, Simon announced on Twitter that NBC have finally secured music rights, which will allow them to sell the show to a streaming service.

Spin-off series
The show inspired the spin-off Homicide: Second Shift, which was shown exclusively online and did not include the regular cast. It featured detectives of the homicide squad that worked the second shift, after the television detectives went home for the day.

title: Homicide: Life on the Street