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John Russell Colvin

John Russell Colvin (29 May 1807 – 9 September 1857) was a British administrator of the East India Company, and Lieutenant-Governor of the North-Western Provinces from 1853 until his death from cholera during the Indian Rebellion of 1857.

Biography
Colvin was born in Calcutta, then part of the Bengal Presidency, the second son and fourth child of James Colvin (born 1768), a merchant with Colvin, Bazett & Co. of London and Calcutta. The Colvin family were a prominent Anglo-Indian family of Scottish descent. He was educated at the East India Company College in Hertfordshire, England and entered the service of the British East India Company in 1826.

In 1836 he became private secretary to Lord Auckland at the time of the First Anglo-Afghan War of 1837, and named his son after him. From 1846 to 1849, Colvin served as Commissioner of Tenasserim, in British (Lower) Burma.

In 1853 Lord Dalhousie appointed him lieutenant-governor of the North-West Provinces of India. In 1857, at the start of the Indian Rebellion of 1857, Colvin was at Agra with only a weak British regiment and a native battery, not enough force to prevail against the mutineers. Colvin issued a proclamation to the 'natives' that was censured at the time for its clemency, but it was similar to the approach of Sir Henry Lawrence, later followed by Lord Canning. Colvin died shortly before the fall of Delhi.

His body could not be carried out of the Agra Fort (which after the fall of the Mughals, the British establishment in India converted into a military garrison). The selection of the burial location is often criticized for the insensitivity, considering the significance of the place. Within the sprawling palace-fort complex, the tomb is located in the front of the Diwan-i-Am (Hall of Public Audience) where the Peacock Throne was placed.

Family
Colvin married Emma Sophia, daughter of Wetenhall Sneyd, a vicar in England; they had ten children, many of whom continued the family connection with India. Bazett Wetenhall, Elliott Graham, and Walter Mytton all passed distinguished careers in India, and a fourth, Clement Sneyd, C.S.I., was secretary of the public works department of the India Office in London. The third son, Auckland, named after Lord Auckland, was lieutenant-governor of the North-West Provinces and Oudh, and also served in Egypt. He co-founded the Colvin Taluqdars' College in Lucknow; he also published a biography of his father in the Rulers of India series in 1895, and in 1905 gave a stained glass East window to the church of St. Mary at Soham, both as a thanksgiving for the termination of the Second Boer War, and as a permanent memorial to his father.

Colvin's elder brother, Bazett David, in 1847 inherited their father's estate at The Grove, Little Bealing, near Ipswich, which thus became the childhood home of Sidney Colvin, who grew up to be a critic, curator, and great friend of Robert Louis Stevenson.

Colvin's granddaughter Brenda (1897–1981) was an important landscape architect, author of standard works in the field and a force behind its professionalisation. She had no children, but another of Colvin's grandchildren founded his own line: Clement Sneyd's son ended up as Admiral Sir Ragnar Colvin, KBE, CB, and fathered John Horace Ragnar Colvin, the Cold War diplomat. The most recent generation is the Australian journalist Mark Colvin and Major General James Balfour CBE of the Royal Green Jackets.

title: John Russell Colvin


text:
Talk:Academic art

Could you work in a link to the Beaux-Arts movement, which would link up many entries? Or is it a term you're avoiding? (This entry is so good I hesitate to interfere... Wetman 03:41, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Referencing
Hey, I don't think this article counts as not verified, as there are books and a few external links, but it would be great if there were more references that other Wikipedians could check on the internet without access to those books. You can use inline references, which are easy-to-use, automatically numbered, and allow the user to easily go back and forth from the text being referenced to the references. Armedblowfish 16:08, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the lack of references is the main reason the article is not yet a good article. - Ilse@ 10:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Academic
A good article as far as the french aspect of this european engendered subject goes. I think perhaps I see the hand of one who has learned the US version of things where all art seems to come from france, perhaps we have all those francophile american millionaires to thank for that. Not that I have anything against the telling of french events.

It would be good to add the role of the Royal Academy in london to this article, but nearly all of the text would need to be changed as most subsequent facts are mainly appropriate only to the french school. a good example here is the section about 'criticisms and legacy' which credits Gustave Courbet with being the first dissenting voice and then traces a neat line to the present day. strangely enough the pre-raphaelite brotherhood was started the year after courbet was credited with 'doubts' by a group of artists that had already protested. unfortunately the trail they leave doesnt make such a neat path to the received wisdom of the art historical cannon.

Why dont I make the changes? well I got here on a trail through various sculpture articles via half a dozen other pages and am labouring with the dissapointment that most of them wouldnt even make good first year guessays. Having weighed up the time I would need to spend even cleaning up the articles, I decided to get a life and just learn to laugh at the unfolding wikijoke. Sorry to be so negative, I'm sure you've felt the same way too.DavidP 03:28, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi David, I wrote the original article, and when I wrote it I understood very well the ways in which academic art appeared in countries other than France. 'Academism' as it came to be used does refer to a certain refined style where the center was even at the time considered to be in France, which was generally the center of culture at the time. Other European academies were influenced heavily by the French model, which I mentioned. Criticisms of 'academism' were also heavily influenced by French criticisms. There is no attempt to exclude anything but the French school. Mentions of Makart, Leys, Scheffer, Leighton, and other non-French academics are there. As for England, much can be said about Joshua Reynolds' writings about art and how they relate to academism, which are referenced in the article on hierarchy of genres which I wrote and is linked to in the academic art article. I also wrote the article on Hans Makart, who is a strong example of academism in Austria. Aside from England, it would be interesting to write further about what happened in Germany and Austria, and how the local traditions led to different results, partly because history painting was at first discouraged by Metternich. Its true that Pre-Raphaelites also had a revolt and this isnt discussed in the article. Its interesting to note that many highly regarded French academics themselves criticized 'academism' before there were any real revolts. So much is left out that can be discussed. There is a reason though under the Criticism and Legacy section, why that Pre-Raphaelites weren't mentioned and it leads to a neater path to modernism, because the legacy of the academic style was the modernist reaction, where pre-Raphaelites don't hold a high place. If I wrote the article longer, I could have included a lot more. Do you think its important for all of this to be worked into the article? I was actually working on writing something apart from Wikipedia to present a new history of 19th century art, where I discuss different traditions in different countries; but for the Wikipedia academism article I think I wrote enough. Brianshapiro

--from follow up from user talk pages--

 * Brian. thanks for taking the time to write a message, It is an excellent article, in hindsight I realise that I wrote my hasty critique in a state of pique, I hope that it was not too harsh. the reason that I felt it important to include the english side of the coin was that i came to the page following a trail via more ambiguous terms such as 'art' 'fine art' and even 'beauty' - by comparison these pages are quite speculative. your work is remarkably encyclopedic given the amount of space.

 * Of course a nod to what was occuring in england at the time would be welcome, if only because it is the root (via William Morris) of the arts and crafts movement, the clash with the early modernists (the Bloomsbury group) and the subsequent political split between 'art' and 'craft' that mirrors social changes taking place in Britain in the early C20. It has been said that the work of James Joyce and Conan Doyle exemplify the different stances in thier respective exclusivity and inclusivity of the general public. In the uk at least is still very much a live issue - It leads to odd forms of classification, such as 'Artist Blacksmith' as well as two seperate streams of art education and at government level, both an Arts Council and a Crafts Council.

 * I wish I had the breadth of knowledge to write a coherent account of the british events, but unfortunately my understanding stems from practise rather than historical study. Good luck with your writing, I am sure it will be well considered and very interesting. regards DavidP 11:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your message back to me. You're right of course how the debate shaped up in England at the time. I understand some of this also; and how many English academics argued that the artist should work for the market. I actually mentioned it in the article I wrote for kitsch. Its also interesting how the debate shaped in different countries other than France--as I hinted, in Austria, for instance, academic art, its main figure in Makart, became very much about public decoration. Metternich as head of the Academy discouraged history painting, because other forms of painting were considered to be of more moral benefit (contrast to France), after which history painting was mainly confined to decorating public spaces. This hard stance was later given up but it led to artists like Makart, who were also decorators and designers who were united with Wagner in seeking a 'total work of art'. The revolt against academism in central Europe was the Jugenstil and other Art Nouveau movements, which were similarly oriented around decoration. I guess I neglected to mention these different traditions in countries other than France, because 'academism' was usually used to refer to the French model, which relied on strict codifications, and the French model was really the central one--the "art pompier." If you take Leighton, who was closest to French academics, was criticized sometimes for being too much like a "French academic." I think though now that this was brought up I will edit the article to be more inclusive. Brianshapiro

Dates
It's missing dates... like when things happened, when it was officially established, and when they closed up shop. Also fails to mention how much control The French Academy of Art had over artists, and so on...--Hitsuji Kinno 17:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

This article starts by defining a major art movement without giving the dates it was most active in. This should really be in the first sentence of any art article concerning a major period or artist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.225.172.115 (talk) 14:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Universities
What do universities have to do with it? They are only mentioned a couple of times, but there they are in the first sentence. Why? These art academies were not universities. I've added a citation-needed tag. And rew D alby 14:50, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've just removed them. Some older academies may have been part of universities, but this was certainly not typical. Johnbod (talk) 01:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Article issues
This looks like a finely wrought article, but it's too problematic to merit a B class rating: there's nary a reference. It appears to have been written of whole cloth some time ago, and it's time for reassessment and addition of sources. JNW (talk) 01:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Just realized: while the article rightly focuses on the impact of the academic model in Europe, there's but passing acknowledgment of its role in American art. Nor are any artists from the U.S.-- Vanderlyn, West, Eakins, Cox, Saint-Gaudens, Abbey, Blashfield--named. An outline of the National Academy and Pennsylvania Academy will be helpful. JNW (talk) 16:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Who wrote this article?
Who wrote this article? 212.129.77.200 (talk) 20:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * All these people. Why do you ask? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Gallery has become excessive
Please see WP:GALLERY, specifically:
 * Generally, a gallery or cluster of images should not be added so long as there is space for images to be effectively presented adjacent to text. A gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. Just as we seek to ensure that the prose of an article is clear, precise and engaging, galleries should be similarly well-crafted. Gallery images must collectively add to the reader's understanding of the subject without causing  unbalance to an article or section within an article while avoiding similar or repetitive images, unless a point of contrast or comparison is being made.

It seems to me that the gallery is entirely redundant given that the article is already well illustrated in context. It is not obvious how the current gallery illustrates aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. Readers should be referred to a commons category if they want more. IMO, the gallery at the foot of the article should be deleted completely. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:59, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * But the 'article is NOT already well illustrated in context'! It starts with a pointless multiple image, which should be broken up, then there is a looong unillustrated section, and the rest of the articles is not well illustrated for an art topic. The gallery images should be be moved up, ideally with captions that relate to the text (there is no need for giving all the museums). And what is the poor Duke of Wellington doing in this louche company? Very odd. The balance is off too - too many large multi-figure toga subjects, and too many French artists. Johnbod (talk) 02:56, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is certainly true. My "well illustrated" was lazy, I meant "already has plenty".
 * In summary, MOS:IMAGES says that images are to illustrate the text, not to decorate it: there is a lot of decoration going on here. So yes, a serious review (= weeding and repositioning) of all the pictures in the article, gallery or otherwise, is long overdue. A curator is needed.
 * , is this something that you could take on? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 07:57, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Academic art


text:
William Tryon

Lieutenant-General William Tryon (8 June 1729 – 27 January 1788) was a British Army officer and colonial administrator who served as governor of North Carolina from 1764 to 1771 and the governor of New York from 1771 to 1777. He also served during the Seven Years' War, the Regulator Movement, and the American War of Independence.

Early life and career
Tryon was born on 8 June 1729 at the Tryon family's seat at Norbury Park, Surrey, the son of Charles Tryon and Lady Mary Shirley. His maternal grandfather was Robert Shirley, 1st Earl Ferrers. In 1751, Tryon enlisted in the British Army as a lieutenant in the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards and was promoted to the rank of captain later that year. In 1758, Tryon was promoted to lieutenant-colonel.

Seven Years' War
During the Seven Years' War, Tryon and his regiment were involved in the British raid on Cherbourg. They landed at Cherbourg and destroyed all military facilities. In September, they reembarked for St Malo, where the operation went smoothly until the withdrawal, when they came under intense fire from the French at the Battle of Saint Cast. Tryon was wounded in the thigh and head.

Governor of North Carolina
On 26 April 1764, through family connections, Tryon obtained the position of acting lieutenant governor of the Province of North Carolina. He arrived in North Carolina with his family, including a young daughter, and architect John Hawks, in early October to find that the previous governor, Arthur Dobbs, had not left. He said that he would not be leaving until May. Tryon found himself with no income (although he was Lieutenant Governor). In 1765, a house called Russelborough on the Cape Fear River near Brunswick Town was renovated to serve as Tryon's residence while he acted as Lieutenant Governor.

Tryon assumed his position as acting governor when Dobbs died on 28 March 1765. On 10 July, the King appointed him to the office of governor. After assuming the office of governor, Tryon worked to expand the Church of England in North Carolina. There were only five Anglican clergy members in North Carolina at that time. Tryon pushed for the completion of abandoned construction projects of Anglican churches in Brunswick Town, Wilmington, Edenton, and New Bern. Tryon appointed members of the clergy for these churches and encouraged the construction of new churches, especially in rural areas.

There was strong opposition in North Carolina to the Stamp Act of 1765. When the Stamp Act Congress was held, the colonial assembly was not in session, hence delegates could not be selected to attend. Tryon refused to allow meetings of the Assembly from 18 May 1765 to 3 November 1766 to prevent the Assembly from passing a resolution in opposition to the Stamp Act. Tryon said that he was personally opposed to the Stamp Act and that he offered to pay the taxes on all stamped paper on which he was entitled to fees. Tryon requested troops to enforce the act, but instead he was informed on 25 June 1766 that the act was repealed.

Tryon also composed plans for an elaborate governor's mansion, which would also function as a central location for government business; he worked with Hawks during 1764 and 1765 to draw up plans for an elaborate home. In December 1766, the North Carolina legislature authorized £5,000 for the building of Tryon's mansion. Tryon told the legislature that the sum was not substantial enough for the plans he and Hawks had created; building it "in the plainest manner" would cost no less than £10,000 without including the outbuildings he envisioned. Hawks agreed to supervise the construction for three years and went to Philadelphia at Tryon's behest to hire workers; Tryon said native North Carolina workers would not know how to construct such a building.

Tryon was eventually able to convince the legislature to increase taxes to help pay for the project. The unpopularity of the new taxes spawned the derogatory nickname 'Tryon Palace'. In 1770, Tryon moved into the completed mansion. The house was "a monument of opulence and elegance extraordinary in the American colonies." Although he accomplished some notable improvements in the colony, such as the creation of a postal service in 1769, Tryon is most noted for suppressing the Regulator Movement in western North Carolina during the period from 1768 to 1771. The uprising was caused partly by taxation imposed to pay for Tryon Palace at New Bern (which Tryon made the provincial capital) and partly by tax abuse and fraud by western officials.

Matters came to a head in May 1771, when colonial militia defeated 2,000 Regulators in the Battle of Alamance. Following the battle, Tryon ordered the execution of seven alleged Regulators, convicted by Judge Richard Henderson. Most of the men were accused of violating the Riot Act, a crime temporarily made a capital offense by the General Assembly. The executed men included James Few, Benjamin Merrill, Enoch Pugh, Robert Matear, "Captain" Robert Messer, Bryant Austin Sr, and one other. Six other convicted Regulators—Forrester Mercer, James Stewart, James Emmerson, Herman Cox, William Brown, and James Copeland—were pardoned by King George III and released by Tryon.

The Regulator uprising is viewed by some historians as a precursor to the American Revolution. Tryon then raised taxes again to pay for the militia's campaign against the Regulators. Tryon's governorship ended, and he left North Carolina on 30 June 1771. Tryon Palace was reconstructed in the 1950s using the original architectural plans drawn by John Hawks. Many years later, in an op-ed for the Rocky Mount Telegram explaining why he wanted to limit veto power for the North Carolina governor, North Carolina State Senator Roy Cooper wrote, "Governor Tryon was hated as he ruled in opulent splendor from his palace."

Governor of New York
On 8 July 1771, Tryon arrived in the Province of New York and became its governor. In 1771 and 1772 he was successful in having the assembly appropriate funds for the quartering of British troops and also on 18 March 1772 the establishment of a militia. Funds were also appropriated for the rebuilding of New York City's defenses. In 1772, opposition in New York was strong against the Tea Act. In December, the Sons of Liberty "persuaded" the tea agents to resign. Tryon proposed to land the tea and store it at Fort George.

The Sons of Liberty were opposed and Alexander McDougall said, "prevent the landing, and kill [the] governor and all the council". When news of the Boston Tea Party arrived on 22 December, Tryon gave up trying to land the tea. He told London the tea could be brought ashore "only under the protection of the point of the bayonet, and muzzle of cannon, and even then I do not see how consumption could be effected". In 1774, the New Yorkers dumped their own consignment of tea into the harbor. On 29 December 1773 the governor's mansion and all its contents were destroyed by fire. The New York Assembly appropriated five thousand pounds for his losses.

American Revolutionary War
On 7 April 1774, Tryon departed for a trip to England, and Cadwallader Colden was the acting governor of New York in his absence. Tryon arrived back in New York on 25 June 1775 after the American Revolutionary War had begun. Isaac Sears returned in July from the Continental Congress with orders to put Tryon under arrest, but George Washington had ordered Philip Schuyler, the commander in New York, to leave Tryon alone. On 19 October 1775, he was compelled to seek refuge on the British sloop-of-war Halifax in New York Harbor. He then set up an offshore headquarters nearby on board the merchant ship Duchess of Gordon. In 1776, he dissolved the assembly and called for new elections in February. The new assembly was for independence, so Tryon dissolved it.

During the spring and summer of 1776, Tryon and New York City mayor David Mathews conspired in a miserably bungled plot to kidnap General Washington and to assassinate his chief officers. Washington's bodyguard Thomas Hickey was involved in the plot. Hickey had been in prison for passing counterfeit money, and he bragged to his cellmate Isaac Ketcham about the kidnapping plot. Ketcham revealed it to authorities in an effort to gain his own freedom. Hickey was court-martialled and hanged for mutiny on 28 June 1776. In June, Admiral Howe arrived in New York City with the British army. Howe placed New York under martial law with James Robertson as the military commander. Tryon retained his nominal title as governor, but with little power.

In early 1777, Tryon was given the rank of major-general of the provincials. In April, he was ordered to invade Connecticut and march on the city of Danbury to destroy an arsenal there. Tryon established his headquarters at the house of a Loyalist named Joseph Dibble, at the south end of the village and near the public stores. Generals Agnew and Erskine made their headquarters in a house near the bridge, at the upper end of the main street. All the other houses in the village were quartered with British troops for the night. Tryon engaged and defeated Patriot forces under the command of General David Wooster and Benedict Arnold at the Battle of Ridgefield when attempting to return to an invasion fleet anchored in Westport. In May 1778, he was given the rank of major-general in the British army, but in America only, and also the colonelcy of the 70th Regiment of Foot. He became the commander of all British forces on Long Island.

Tryon had long advocated engaging in raids on Patriot towns, but General Henry Clinton turned down his proposals. In July 1779, he commanded a series of raids on the Connecticut coast, attacking New Haven, Fairfield, and Norwalk, burning and plundering most of Fairfield and Norwalk. His raids were intended to draw Patriot forces away from the defense of the Hudson valley. In spite of pressure from Governor Jonathan Trumbull, George Washington did not move his troops. Patriot newspapers condemned him for making war on "women and children", and Clinton was also indignant about Tryon disobeying his orders. Tryon found approval of his conduct from Lord George Germain, but Clinton refused to give him any further significant commands. In September 1780, Tryon returned to his home in London. He directed the affairs of the 70th Regiment, who were still in America, and he gave directions in 1783 for the regiment to be brought back to England for disbandment. In 1782, he was promoted to the rank of lieutenant-general. In 1784, he was made the colonel of the 29th Regiment of Foot, which was stationed in Canada.

Death
Tryon died at his home in London on 27 January 1788 and was buried at St Mary's Church, Twickenham, Middlesex, England.

Personal life
Tryon had a daughter by Mary Stanton, whom he never married. In 1757, he married Margaret Wake, a London heiress with a dowry of 30,000 pounds. Her father, William, had been the East India Company's Governor in Bombay from 1742–50, and had died on a ship off the Cape of Good Hope on the voyage home. Margaret was later the namesake of Wake County, North Carolina, where Raleigh is located.

Legacy

According to American historian Scott M. Smith, Tryon "achieved a reputation as a fair, honest and capable administrator. His signature accomplishment in this vein was the improvement of the colony’s postal service, a crucial link between the important commercial centers in South Carolina and Virginia." After assuming the office of North Carolina governor in 1765, Tryon stated "I shall ever think it equally my duty to preserve the People in their constitutional liberty; as to maintain inviolate the Just and necessary Rights of the Crown", a statement which Smith noted "would haunt Tryon for the rest of his life."

During the Revolutionary War, Tryon's raids in Connecticut were denounced by Patriot leaders, and president of the Continental Congress Henry Laurens wrote in 1779 that Tryon's memory ought to be "held in everlasting contempt." In 1930, business magnate John D. Rockefeller donated land in New York City to the municipal authorities, which created Fort Tryon Park. Later that year, local historian Reginald Pelham Bolton argued the park should have its name changed to "Forest Hill Park" because "the Tryon name was distasteful for patriotic and historical reasons."

Honors
The Cherokees gave Tryon the name of "Wolf" for his dealings in setting a boundary for them in the western part of the colony.
 * Tryon County, New York and Tryon County, North Carolina were both named for him (though later renamed).
 * The town of Tryon, North Carolina
 * Tryon Palace in New Bern, North Carolina
 * Tryon, Prince Edward Island
 * Tryon Amateur Radio Club, named for the Tryon County in NY, this club is located in Johnstown, NY, now Fulton County.
 * His name is still preserved at Fort Tryon Park in Manhattan in New York City, which was held by the British throughout most of the American Revolution.
 * Tryon's name remained for many years on Tryon Row, a street which ran between Centre Street and Park Row in lower Manhattan. Tryon Row was the location of the New York Free School No. 1, at the corner of Chatham Street, which was one of the city's first public schools, in the early 19th century. The street's path is now occupied by the sidewalk and gardens south of the Manhattan Municipal Building.
 * Tryon Avenue in the Norwood section of the Bronx
 * Tryon Hills is a prominent neighborhood in Charlotte, North Carolina; Tryon Street is a major thoroughfare in that city
 * Tryon Road in Raleigh, North Carolina (in Wake County, named after Tryon's wife Margaret Wake)
 * Tryon Street in Burlington, North Carolina
 * Tryon Street in Hillsborough, North Carolina
 * Tryon Street in Albany, New York
 * Tryon Street in South Glastonbury, Connecticut that travels along the banks of the Connecticut River. The adjacent Tryon Farms was featured in Glastonbury's yearly 2007 calendar. Sarah Jane Tryon-Betts is the land owner, as is her uncle; Charles Tryon. Many homes on Tryon Street date back to this period, and in fact accommodate the furniture of this era, some of which (such as the Cherry Highboy) were produced by the cabinetmaker Isaac Tryon, circa 1772.
 * Tryon Avenue in Norwalk, Connecticut, located parallel to East Avenue, the primary road traveled by Tryon’s forces as they burned the center of Norwalk.
 * David Mathews, the former Mayor of New York City under the British and during Tryon's period of power in New York, named a son William Tryon Mathews after him.

title: William Tryon


text:
Reed Gold Mine

The Reed Gold Mine is located in Midland, Cabarrus County, North Carolina, and is the site of the first documented commercial gold find in the United States. It has been designated a National Historic Landmark because of its importance and listed on the National Register of Historic Places

History
In 1799, Conrad Reed, the son of farmer and former Hessian soldier John Reed (né Johannes Reidt) born June 6, 1757, found a 17-pound yellow "rock" in Little Meadow Creek on the family farm in Cabarrus County, North Carolina. For three years, the rock served as a bulky doorstop. In 1802, a jeweler from Fayetteville identified the rock as a large gold nugget. He told John Reed to name his price. Reed, not understanding the true value of gold, asked for what he thought was the hefty price of $3.50, or a week's worth of wages. The large nugget's true value was around $3,600.

About 1803, John Reed organized a small gold mining operation. Soon afterward a slave named Peter found a 28-pound nugget. Reed continued with placer mining for a number of years. In 1831 he began underground mining. John Reed died at age 88 on May 28, 1845, rich from the gold found on his property.

Some years later, the American Civil War decreased mining activity because of labor and resources being pulled into the war. The last large nugget uncovered by placer mining was discovered in 1896. The last underground mining took place at the Reed Mine in 1912. To handle the large amount of gold found in the region and state from the 19th into the early 20th century, the Charlotte Mint was built in nearby Charlotte, North Carolina.

Today, the Reed Mine is a state historic site that belongs to the North Carolina Department of Natural and Cultural Resources and open to the public. Visitors can tour a museum with extensive displays about North Carolina gold mining. In addition, they can explore several hundred feet of restored gold mine tunnels.

About John Reed
Johannes Reith, a Hessian soldier from Raboldshausen, Germany, served during the American Revolution in Company C (Col. Friedrich von Porbeck) of the Garrison Regiment von Wissenbach. On June 21, 1782 he deserted his post outside Savannah, Georgia and took his arms and equipment. He left the British army and came to settle in the lower part of North Carolina.

He went to 'upper' Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, later Cabarrus County, where he settled in the ethnic German community. He Anglicized his name to John Reed. Later he married Sarah Kiser, daughter of Peter Kiser and Fanny Garmon.

title: Reed Gold Mine


text:
Edmondo De Amicis

Edmondo De Amicis (21 October 1846 – 11 March 1908) was an Italian novelist, journalist, poet, and short-story writer. His best-known book is Cuore, a children's novel translated into English as Heart.

Early career
Born in Oneglia (today part of the city of Imperia), he went to the Military Academy of Modena, and became an Army officer in the new Kingdom of Italy. Edmondo fought in the battle of Custoza during the Third Independence War, a defeat of Savoy forces against the Austrian Empire; the spectacle left him disappointed, and contributed to his later decision to leave military life.

In Florence, he wrote his first sketches dealing with his frontline experience, collected as La vita militare ("Military Life", 1868), and first published by the journal of the Ministry of Defense, L'Italia Militare. In 1870, he joined the staff of the journal La Nazione in Rome, and his correspondence at the time later served as base for his travel writings: Spagna (1873), Olanda (1874), Ricordi di Londra (1874), Marocco (1876), Constantinople (1878), Ricordi di Parigi (1879). A new edition of Costantinople, considered by many his masterpiece and the best description of the city in the 19th century, was published in 2005, with a foreword by Umberto Eco.

Heart success
Heart was issued by Treves on 17 October 1886, then the first day of school in Italy. Its success was immense: in a few months it was printed in 40 Italian editions and translated into dozens of languages. Its praise for the creation of the united Italian state in the previous decade contributed to its reception, but also led to criticism from some Roman Catholic politicians for failing to depict the nature of the Holy See's opposition to the annexation of Rome.

Initiated to the Scottish Rite Freemasonry, possibly in the regular Masonic Lodge Concordia in Montevideo, Uruguay, De Amicis held the public greeting speech in honor of the mason Giovanni Bovio during the first representation of his theatral drama titled San Paolo, interpreted by the Italian actor and mason Giovanni Emanuel. His book Cuore has been considered for decades an educative textbook largely read and studied in the Italian public schools. Some literary critics noted it substituted the traditional Roman Catholic doctrine with a lay civil religion where heroes took the place of Christian martyrs, the Statuto Albertino displaced the Gospels, the Church, its believers and the Ten Commandments were respectively deleted in favour of the State, the figure of the citizen and the protection of the Italian codes of laws. The Grand Orient of Italy recognized De Amicis as one of his most notable past members.

Later years
The nationalist message visible in De Amicis' works was soon fused with a commitment to socialism (a trend visible within Heart). In 1896, he adhered to the Italian Socialist Party. He was elected a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1901.

His later works include: Sull'oceano (1889), dealing with the plight of Italian emigrants overseas, Il romanzo di un maestro (1890), Amore e ginnastica (1892), Maestrina degli operai (1895), La carrozza di tutti (1899), L'idioma gentile (1905), and Nuovi ritratti letterari e artistici (1908). At the same time, he contributed to the Turin-based Il Grido del Popolo - his articles were collected as Questione sociale ("Social Issues", 1894).

De Amicis died in Bordighera at the "Hotel de la Reine", which he chose because it was George MacDonald's Casa Coraggio, Bordighera. His last years were marked by tragedy and spent in reclusion; he was marked by his mother's death, and the frequent conflicts with his wife - ultimately, these were the source of an even greater emotional shock for De Amicis, as they led to his son Furio's suicide (as schoolchildren, Furio and his brother Ugo had served as inspiration for Heart).

Legacy
Alberto Brambilla of Sorbonne University wrote that "historians of Italian literature consider him a “minor author" but that the publication of Constantinople was evidence that he was "one best-known Italian authors abroad".

title: Edmondo De Amicis


text:
Story Musgrave

Franklin Story Musgrave (born August 19, 1935) is an American physician and a retired NASA astronaut. He is a public speaker and consultant to both Disney's Imagineering group and Applied Minds in California. In 1996, he became only the second astronaut to fly on six spaceflights, and he is the most formally educated astronaut with six academic degrees. Musgrave is the only astronaut to have flown aboard all five Space Shuttles.

Early life
Musgrave was born August 19, 1935, the son of Percy Musgrave Jr. (1903–1973) and Marguerite Warton Musgrave (née Swann; 1909–1982). He grew up in Stockbridge, Massachusetts, but considers Lexington, Kentucky, to be his hometown.

Musgrave has strong New England ancestral roots, descending from Mayflower passengers John Howland and John Tilley, as well as early Watertown, Massachusetts, settler Richard Saltonstall. Saltonstall's uncle was Richard Saltonstall, Lord Mayor of London.

His 4th great-grandfather was William Gray, a lieutenant governor of Massachusetts from 1810 to 1812 and a Massachusetts State Representative and Senator. His first cousin, four times removed was Horace Gray, Massachusetts Supreme Court Justice from 1864 to 1882 and United States Supreme Court Justice from 1882 to 1902.

His name comes from his 2nd great-grandfather, Franklin Howard Story Jr. (1825–1900) and 3rd great-grandfather, Franklin Howard Story (1795–1871). His 4th great-grandfather, Elisha Story (1743–1805), was a participant in the Boston Tea Party in 1773. Another son of Elisha, Joseph Story (Musgrave's 4th great-uncle) was a United States Congressman from Massachusetts and a United States Supreme Court Justice from 1812 to 1845. Joseph's son (Musgrave's 1st cousin, four times removed) was artist and sculptor William Wetmore Story. William's son (Musgrave's second cousin, thrice removed) was painter Julian Russell Story.

Musgrave attended Dexter School in Brookline, Massachusetts, and St. Mark's School in Southborough, Massachusetts, from 1947 to 1953. He dropped out of St. Mark's in his senior year when a car accident "caused him to miss a substantial amount of vital pre-graduation exam schooling."

Career
After leaving high school, Musgrave enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in 1953. He served as an aviation electrician, instrument technician and aircraft crew chief while completing duty assignments in Korea, Japan and Hawaii, and aboard the carrier USS Wasp (CV-18) in the Far East. Musgrave's aviator brother Percy (1933–1959), who also served on USS Wasp, died on a mission when the carrier "ran over him" after a takeoff crash.

Although he did not qualify as a pilot until completing his stipulated astronaut training, Musgrave has flown 17,700 hours in 160 different types of civilian and military aircraft, including 7,500 hours in jet aircraft. He has earned FAA ratings for instructor, instrument instructor, glider instructor, and airline transport pilot in addition to astronaut wings. An accomplished parachutist, he has made more than 800 free falls, including over 100 experimental free-fall descents involved with the study of human aerodynamics.

While serving in the Marines, he completed his GED. Following his discharge, Musgrave received a B.S. in mathematics and statistics from Syracuse University in 1958. Following his graduation from Syracuse University, Musgrave was briefly employed as a mathematician and operations analyst by the Eastman Kodak Company in Rochester, New York in 1958.

He went on to receive an M.B.A. in operations analysis and computer programming from the University of California, Los Angeles in 1959, a B.A. in chemistry from Marietta College in 1960, and an M.D. degree from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in 1964.

Upon completing his medical degree, he served a surgical internship at the University of Kentucky Medical Center from 1964 to 1965. He continued there as a United States Air Force postdoctoral fellow (1965–1966), working in aerospace medicine and physiology, and as a National Heart Institute postdoctoral fellow (1966–1967), teaching and researching cardiovascular and exercise physiology. In 1966, he earned an M.S. in physiology and biophysics from the University of Kentucky. From 1967 to 1989, he practiced clinical medicine on a part-time basis at Denver General Hospital (presently known as Denver Health Medical Center) and served as an adjunct instructor of physiology and biophysics at the University of Kentucky Medical Center. He earned an M.A. in literature from the University of Houston–Clear Lake in 1987.

He has written or been listed as a co-author of twenty-five scientific papers in the areas of aerospace medicine and physiology, temperature regulation, exercise physiology, and clinical surgery.

NASA
Musgrave was selected as a scientist-astronaut by NASA in August 1967 as a member of NASA Astronaut Group 6. After completing flight and academic training, he worked on the design and development of the Skylab Program. In 1973, he was the backup Science Pilot for Skylab 2, becoming the first Group 6 astronaut to receive a potential flight assignment.

Musgrave participated in the design and development of all Space Shuttle extra-vehicular activity equipment, including spacesuits, life support systems, airlocks and Manned Maneuvering Units. From 1979 to 1982, and 1983 to 1984, he was assigned as a test and verification pilot in the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory at JSC.

Musgrave served as a CAPCOM for the second and third Skylab missions, STS-31, STS-35, STS-36, STS-38 and STS-41. He was a mission specialist on STS-6 (1983), STS-51-F/Spacelab-2 (1985), STS-33 (1989), STS-44 (1991), and STS-80 (1996); and the payload commander on STS-61 (1993).

A veteran of six space flights, Musgrave has spent a total of 1,281 hours, 59 minutes, 22 seconds on space missions, including nearly 27 hours of EVA.

Musgrave is the only astronaut to have flown on all five Space Shuttles. Prior to John Glenn's return to space in 1998, Musgrave held the record for the oldest person in orbit at age 61.

He retired from NASA in 1997, after 30 years as an astronaut.

STS-6
He first flew on STS-6, which launched from the Kennedy Space Center, on April 4, 1983, and landed at Edwards Air Force Base in California, on April 9, 1983. During this maiden voyage of Space Shuttle Challenger, the crew performed the first Shuttle deployment of an IUS/TDRS satellite, and Musgrave and Don Peterson conducted the first Space Shuttle extra-vehicular activity (EVA) to test the new space suits and construction and repair devices and procedures. Mission duration was 5 days, 23 minutes, 42 seconds.

STS-51-F
On STS-51-F/Spacelab-2, the crew aboard Challenger launched from the Kennedy Space Center, Florida, on July 29, 1985, and landed at Edwards Air Force Base, California, on August 6, 1985. This flight was the first pallet-only Spacelab mission, and the first mission to operate the Spacelab Instrument Pointing System (IPS). It carried 13 major experiments in astronomy, astrophysics, and life sciences. During this mission, Musgrave served as the systems engineer during launch and entry, and as a pilot during the orbital operations. Mission duration was 7 days, 22 hours, 45 minutes, 26 seconds.

STS-33
On STS-33, he served aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery, which launched at night from the Kennedy Space Center, Florida, on November 22, 1989. This classified mission operated payloads for the United States Department of Defense. Following 79 orbits, the mission concluded on November 27, 1989, with a landing at sunset on Runway 04 at Edwards Air Force Base, California. Mission duration was 5 days, 7 minutes, 32 seconds.

STS-44
STS-44 also launched at night on November 24, 1991. The primary mission objective was accomplished with the successful deployment of a Defense Support Program (DSP) satellite with an Inertial Upper Stage (IUS) rocket booster. In addition, the crew also conducted two Military Man in Space Experiments, three radiation monitoring experiments, and numerous medical tests to support longer duration Shuttle flights. The mission was concluded in 110 orbits of the Earth with Atlantis returning to a landing on the lakebed at Edwards Air Force Base, California, on December 1, 1991. Mission duration was 6 days, 22 hours, 50 minutes, 42 seconds.

STS-61
STS-61 was the first Hubble Space Telescope (HST) servicing and repair mission. Following a night launch from Kennedy Space Center on December 2, 1993, Endeavour rendezvoused with and captured the HST. During this 11-day flight, the HST was restored to its full capabilities through the work of two pairs of astronauts during a record 5 spacewalks. Musgrave performed 3 of these spacewalks. After having travelled 4,433,772 miles in 163 orbits of the Earth, Endeavour returned to a night landing in Florida on December 13, 1993. Mission duration was 10 days, 19 hours, 59 minutes.

STS-80
On STS-80, (November 19 to December 7, 1996), the crew aboard Space Shuttle Columbia deployed and retrieved the Wake Shield Facility (WSF) and the Orbiting Retrievable Far and Extreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (ORFEUS) satellites. The free-flying WSF created a super vacuum in its wake in which to grow thin film wafers for use in semiconductors and the electronics industry. The ORFEUS instruments, mounted on the reusable Shuttle Pallet Satellite, studied the origin and makeup of stars.

During deorbit and landing, Musgrave stood in the cockpit and pointed a handheld video camera out the windows. In doing so, he recorded the plasma streams over the orbiter's hull for the first time, and he is still the only astronaut to see them first-hand. In completing this mission he logged a record 278 Earth orbits and traveled over 7 million miles in 17 days, 15 hours, 53 minutes.

Media appearances and space snakes
Musgrave has made cameo appearances on several documentary TV programs, as well as the movie Mission to Mars (2000) as "3rd CAPCOM" and the TV show Home Improvement (Series 3, Episode 24, "Reality Bytes"). In 2012, he appeared at Chicon 7, the 70th World Science Fiction Convention, as the "Astronaut Guest of Honor."

In 1995 while being interviewed for a space documentary, Sightings, Musgrave irked NASA officials and surprised his colleagues when he declared that during two of his missions he saw "snakes" floating around in space - a fact that he failed to officially report to NASA upon his return.

In an interview with Omni, Musgrave mentioned seeing what he calls "the snake" on two flights and speculated it to be a rubber seal.

Organizations
He is a member of Phi Delta Theta, Alpha Kappa Psi, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, Beta Gamma Sigma, the Civil Aviation Medical Association, the Flying Physicians Association, the International Academy of Astronautics, the Marine Corps Aviation Association, the National Aeronautic Association, the National Aerospace Education Council, the National Geographic Society, the Navy League, the New York Academy of Sciences, Omicron Delta Kappa, the Soaring Club of Houston, the Soaring Society of America and the United States Parachute Association.

Personal life
He has seven children, one of whom is deceased. His hobbies include chess, flying, gardening, literary criticism, poetry, microcomputers, parachuting, photography, reading, running, scuba diving, and soaring.

In the early 1990s, Musgrave was stalked by Margaret Mary Ray, a schizophrenic woman who had previously served a prison sentence for stalking comedian David Letterman.

Awards and honors

 * United States Air Force Post-doctoral Fellowship (1965–1966)
 * National Heart Institute Post-doctoral Fellowship (1966–1967)
 * Reese Air Force Base Commander's Trophy (1969)
 * American College of Surgeons I.S. Ravdin Lecture (1973)
 * Flying Physicians Association Airman of the Year Award (1974 and 1983)
 * Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement (1994)
 * International Space Hall of Fame (1995)
 * National Aviation Hall of Fame (2022)

title: Story Musgrave


text:
Mark Twain Prize for American Humor

The Mark Twain Prize for American Humor is an American award presented by the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, D.C. annually since 1998, except for the years 2020 and 2021. Named after the 19th-century humorist Mark Twain, it is presented to individuals who have "had an impact on American society in ways similar to" Twain. The Kennedy Center chose Twain in recognition of his role as a controversial social commentator and his "uncompromising perspective of social injustice and personal folly." A copy of Karl Gerhardt's 1884 bust of Twain is presented in an autumn ceremony at the Kennedy Center Concert Hall, during which the honoree is celebrated by his or her peers. The event is a significant fundraiser to benefit the Kennedy Center, which sells tickets as well as access to dinners and after-parties featuring the celebrities.

, 25 individuals have been awarded the honor: six women and 19 men. Bill Cosby's award was rescinded by the Kennedy Center in 2018. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there were no awards in 2020 or 2021.

History
In 1997, Murray Horwitz brought the idea of a dedicated comedy award, on par with the Oscars, Grammy Awards or Tony Awards, to John Schreiber and Mark Krantz, partners in an entertainment firm. The original conceptualization was an award which would celebrate one comedian, unlike the Kennedy Center Honors, which were more all-encompassing, and the venue would be the White House. They took the idea to Ann Stock, then the White House social secretary. The White House was considered an inappropriate venue at the time, so the Kennedy Center was suggested. Bob Kaminsky, Peter Kaminsky and Cappy McGarr were brought onboard and Comedy Central would coproduce and broadcast the show. At this stage it was decided to name the prize after Mark Twain. The inaugural recipient of the award was Richard Pryor. The first two years of the prize honoring Pryor and Jonathan Winters were taped and broadcast on Comedy Central. Since then, the award presentations have been taped for broadcast on PBS. Carol Burnett received the award at age 80 in 2013, while the youngest recipient has been actress and comedian Tina Fey, at age 40 in 2010. The Kennedy Center's intent is to give the award to living persons, but one recipient, George Carlin, died in 2008 before receiving his award. Carlin died five days after the official press release that he would be awarded the prize. Bill Cosby accepted his award at the Kennedy Center in 2009. He had twice refused the honor, stating that he was disappointed with the profanity used in the inaugural ceremony honoring Richard Pryor. After Cosby was convicted of sexual assault in 2018, the center stripped Cosby of his award and his 1998 Kennedy Center Honors. Mel Brooks has refused the award thrice. Robin Williams has also refused the award.

Since Carl Reiner, honorees are given the opportunity to meet the president, although some refuse. Twain had interactions with Ulysses S. Grant and Theodore Roosevelt.

McGarr, a Kennedy Center board member who is a co-founder and co-executive producer of the Twain Prize, writes in his book that the mission of the prize is "to honor the greatest contributors to American comedy of our time". Each awardee has a background in humor which has been a source of joy for many, showcased extensively on more than one occasion in more than one form, and as a part of the American comedic tradition having influenced industry and culture, is a legacy for American humorists to take inspiration from. Honorees have included a writer, an actor, a producer, a stand-up comedian and a media proprietor, among others. In awarding the prize to Lorne Michaels in 2004, a Canadian-American, McGarr explained that "the Mark Twain Prize honors American humor, not necessarily American humorists".

According to a 2013 article in The Washington Post, little is known about the selection process to receive the award. A Kennedy Center spokeswoman stated, "A short list is compiled by the executive producers [of the ceremony] and presented to a group comprisedof [sic] representatives from the Kennedy Center board of trustees, as well as the Kennedy Center senior management and programming staff". But McGarr stated in 2013 that "there's really no committee... It's really a consensus decision. There's not any single person who decides." He also added the award's executive producers — McGarr, Mark Krantz and Peter and Bob Kaminsky — have always decided in consultation with the Kennedy Center's chairman and president, David Rubenstein and Michael Kaiser. He also stated that the primary criteria is that "to choose people who've had a full lifetime of making us laugh and who've had a great influence on the people who've followed them."

title: Mark Twain Prize for American Humor


text:
Talk:William Tryon

Here is an interesting link involving Tryon, thought I'd leave it here in case someone wanted to do some research on it. - Hephaestos 03:56, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Untitled
Most of what I've found about the burning of Danbury, Connecticut says that it happened in April 1777, not 1779. The "public domain 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica" appears to be the source of all of the 1779 references I can find. Can anyone find any others? When I'm finished with the Danbury article, perhaps I'll work on this one. - Plutor 17:51, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

wife link wrong
Wife-link leads to an article about a Lady about 500 years older than William Tryon.

Pedro Picasso: Sure that's scandalous now, but back then it wasn't uncommon for a man to marry an older woman.

Critical press article on this article
Tryon entry on Wikipedia is both vague, error-filled - Sun Journal, May 04 2009.
 * Someone has incorporated several facts from this press piece into this article, although it is not clear how reliable the press piece is as a source Little Professor (talk) 00:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Tryon St., Glastonbury, CT
Moved from article to discussion page

I believe the reference to the street needs to be researched and documented. I do not agree that "Tryon St. in Glastonbury, CT" was named for former Gov. William TRYON. The TRYON family of the area, Wethersfield and Glastonbury, were in the villages of this area in the late 17th century, being from a long line of Flemish weavers from Brussels, Ypres and Antwerp, Bel. They fled the Spanish Netherlands and the RC church under the rule of the Duke of Alba and went to London, Eng, and were members of the Austin Friars Dutch Reformed Church, as well as St. Christopher le Stocks and St. Margaret's Lothbury, and later settled in Bibury, Gloucestershire. They were involved in the cloth trade, as weavers, dyers,mercers, etc., this passing down in the family as they settled in CT. A number of TRYON men of the area fought against the English and Gov. TRYON in the Rev. War. 69.40.247.119 (talk) 16:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Inaccuracies and Suspected Bias
I have edited the following paragraph.

Like many pre-Revolutionary War officials in America, Tryon has generally been pictured by Americans as a tyrant, though the Cherokees honored him with the name of "Wolf" for his dealings in setting a boundary for them in the western part of the colony. In reality, he was, overall, a tactful and good administrator, who improved the colonial postal service. He became unpopular first because he obeyed the instructions of his superiors prior to the war and then by disobeying his orders by being overly harsh against the Americans during the war.

The phrase "pictured by Americans as a tyrant" is biased and historically inaccurate in so far as it clearly implies that only the Americans regarded him as such and did so from nationalistic bias. As for the other assertions, they need to be sourced or removed. --Gunnermanz (talk) 10:05, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

 * It might be inaccurate, though it would require evidence of non-American historians treating him as either a tyrant or not a tyrant to support either direction. Most likely, to me, is that he probably hasn't really been studied at all by non-American historians, since he's a minor figure in a historical event whose scholarship (and popular interest) overwhelmingly originates with American to the exclusion of most other nationalities, and therefore the statement is accurate. But whether accurate or not, it's definitely not biased. Binabik80 (talk) 19:09, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:William Tryon


text:
Talk:Lady Louise Windsor

Requested move 18 September 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 17:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Lady Louise Windsor → Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor – per consistency with her first cousins-once removed Archie Mountbatten-Windsor and Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor. In addition, the line of succession uses Mountbatten-Windsor as her name. Even sources like People refer to her as Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor. cookie monster  755  04:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Lady Louise - would be my choice, to match her with her brother James, Viscount Severn. -- GoodDay (talk) 04:15, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. All WP:RELIABLESOURCES confirm that Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor is indeed the proper and official full naming style for subject. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Disagree. Elsewhere on the Royal Website, she is only referred to as Lady Louise Windsor, a few examples are her first official photos and her christening . Most news sources, online, print and televised only tend to say Lady Louise Windsor as well such as BBC, Express, Hello and Independent. People also refer to her as Lady Louise Windsor . The Royal Family tribute to Prince Philip also only credits her as Lady Louise Windsor. I feel Lady Louise Windsor is better for WP:COMMONNAME. TopGiza (talk) 22:05, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Using that standard, main title headers of English Wikipedia articles delineating various royals would be reduced to their WP:COMMONNAME redirects — Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon → Princess Margaret; Archie Mountbatten-Windsor → Prince Archie; Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor → Princess Lilibet; David Armstrong-Jones, 2nd Earl of Snowdon → David Armstrong-Jones; Alexander Windsor, Earl of Ulster → Alexander Windsor, etc. The full names are listed in Wikipedia's own entry — Succession to the British throne. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * We have Prince Harry even though his real name is Prince Henry. It isn’t common name for Prince Archie or Princess Lilibet, they have never been called by their titles, they’re using their common name. For the likes of Princess Margaret, having their titles saves on large disambiguation pages. TopGiza (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Since Lady Louise Windsor, rather than Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, is posited as subject's WP:COMMONNAME, then of course the unrecognizable "Prince Henry" as a name for Prince Harry wouldn't even enter into the discussion of common names. User:GoodDay proposes above that Lady Louise, which still redirects to her, is sufficient. There is no disambiguation problem with Princess Margaret since the short form likewise redirects to her. As for Archie and Lilibet, Archie Windsor and Lilibet Windsor would then suffice, same as for Lady Louise Windsor. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * We don’t know what names the children of Prince Harry will commonly use as yet. They are ages 3 and 1. Presumably it will be just Windsor, given its usage by the rest of the family. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 12:56, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's own article — Succession to the British throne — as well as all other published succession lists, depict little Archie's and little Lilibet's names via those names' full forms — Archie Mountbatten-Windsor and Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor — as already indicated in the nomination. Likewise, Lady Louise's name appears in all succession lists as Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, again per nomination. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:30, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The proposer lists this for a name change because of what the line of succession page on The Royal Family site lists her as, by that standard, we would have to rename the following pages too;
 * Princess Beatrice to Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi
 * Princess Eugenie to Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank
 * James, Viscount Severn to Viscount Severn
 * Anne, Princess Royal to The Princess Royal
 * Zara Tindall to Mrs. Michael Tindall
 * The proposer has also supported that The Earl of Wessex should be renamed to The Earl of Wessex and Forfar, however his name on the official Succession page is simply The Earl of Wessex, which would be contradictory.
 * The proposer argues People magazine list her as Mountbatten-Windsor, however People list her as Lady Louise Windsor on more occasions. The following all list her as Lady Louise Windsor; . Only one lists her as Mountbatten-Windsor; . I still believe her correct title is simply Lady Louise Windsor. TopGiza (talk) 20:32, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * All main title headers of English Wikipedia articles delineating the 62 names in line to the throne, should follow the forms indicated in the well-researched and strongly-sourced Wikipedia entry — Succession to the British throne — where Lady Louise is listed as Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:30, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * But 1. The Wikipedia titles don’t match the Royal Family source, and 2. Even some of the Wikipedia articles have a different page name from the name on that succession list. The Wikipedia succession list is not a source. TopGiza (talk) 01:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Disagree. Lady Louise Windsor is the common name. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 03:40, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The common name is Princess Diana, but it's at Diana, Princess of Wales. The common name is Camilla Parker Bowles, but we have it at Camilla, Queen Consort. The common name is Meghan Markle, but we have it at Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. The common name is Kate Middleton, but we have it at Catherine, Princess of Wales. Sometimes WP:COMMONNAME does not work the rule should be ignored.  cookie monster   755  07:28, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Given its usage by the person herself as well as its common usage, Lady Louise Windsor is most appropriate. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 12:58, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I would very much dispute that their common names are Princess Diana, Camilla Parker Bowles, Meghan Markle or Kate Middleton. In the tabloids and among the ignorant, maybe, but not in reliable media sources. "Common name" doesn't mean "common name used by some bloke down the pub"! It means "common name in reliable sources". -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:33, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Support per nom and usage in WP:RELIABLESOURCES. Richiepip (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Almost always referred to as Lady Louise Windsor in reliable media sources, including the BBC and every major British newspaper and broadcaster. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:29, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Lady Louise of Edinburgh?
Wouldn’t she become Lady Louise of Edinburgh? Lady Meg (talk) 10:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

 * No, daughters of dukes, even of royal dukes, are simply Lady FirstName LastName. See Lady Helen Taylor or Lady Davina Windsor. Piratesswoop (talk) 12:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think she's asking if Louise should now be Lady Louise Edinburgh instead of Lady Louise Windsor. Tinmanic (talk) 16:36, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Windsor (or Mountbatten-Windsor in its full form) is her surname, and that is not affected by whether her father's title is Earl of Wessex or now something else. Sbishop (talk) 17:00, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, yes, I meant to include that Edinburgh is her father's title, not her last name. Some British royal kids may use their dad's title designation as their last name for school, so if she did, it would be as Louise Edinburgh, but as Louise doesn't use her royal title, she remains Lady Louise Windsor. Piratesswoop (talk) 03:39, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Right. As William and Harry were known by their father’s title designation. William and Harry Wales. Their titles when born were Prince [X] of Wales, like the kids now. Just thought she might take on the Edinburgh “surname” like her cousins did with Wales. Been awhile since a Royal has been upgraded to a Dukedom while already having children. She should technically be “HRH Princess Louise of Edinburgh”, but alas that has not come to pass. Thanks! Lady Meg (talk) 07:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Lady Helen Taylor and Lady Davina Windsor are great-granddaughters of a monarch though. I’m aware that other non Royal Dukes children don’t have “of [X]” either. Just thought it was common practice—like Prince Michael of Kent or Prince William of Gloucester. Guess I’m missing the point that she doesn’t use the Princess title so she wouldn’t automatically become “Princes Louise of Edinburgh”. Is this the first time that a daughter of a Duke, that happens to be the son of a monarch, has refused her titles? Does that make sense? I spend a lot of time trying to get these things right. Thanks! Lady Meg (talk) 07:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No it's not the first time. See Princess Patricia of Connaught who became Lady Patricia Ramsay. Keivan.f  Talk 21:05, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Lake
Who named the lake after her? The article says it was Manitoba's Lieutenant Governor but the source says it was Manitoba's premier (Gary Doer). --  Cosmic6811  🍁 ( T ·  C ) 03:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The source doesn't explicitly say who named the lakes. It says Doer gave their father a couple of parchment scrolls announcing the names, but it doesn't actually say who signed the parchments or whose decision it was. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:21, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 3 June 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 09:10, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Lady Louise Windsor → Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor – "Mountbatten-Windsor" is her surname, not "Windsor". This was also the name of Prince Harry's children before they became Prince and Princess. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Note: I've began a similar RM on James, Earl of Wessex to add the surname to his title for consistancy. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:01, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've taken the liberty of correcting the spelling from Lousie to Louise. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: I suspect WP:NAMECHANGES comes into play here, and certainly there are plenty of recent reliable sources using "Mountbatten-Windsor". FWIW, the Palace now refers to her as "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor", though I'm not sure when this took effect and of course COMMONNAME trumps OFFICIALNAME. If someone can pin down the change, we could make a more informed decision... Rosbif73 (talk) 15:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose: After doing a bit of digging on the Wayback machine, the Palace's succession page changed from "Lady Louise Windsor" to "Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor" some time between May 2010 and December 2010, but this change in official usage has not been systematically followed by reliable sources. Even looking at recent sources, plain "Windsor" is still common. Accordingly, I retract my suggestion that NAMECHANGES comes into play, and now oppose per COMMONNAME. Rosbif73 (talk) 08:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

title: Talk:Lady Louise Windsor


text:
Lishui River

Lishui River (also known as Li River, Chinese language: 澧水, pinyin: lǐshuǐ, Wade-Giles: li3-shui3) is a river in Hunan province of China, one of the Yangtze River's four largest tributaries in the province.

Lishui has three origination places, the north, the middle and the south. The north one is the most important place, origination from Shanmujie of Sangzhi County in Zhangjiajie. The middle one, origination from the east side of the Badagong Mountain in Sangzhi and the south place, origination from Longjiazhai of Yongshun County in Xiangxi. The three originations join the main river in Nancha of Sangzhi, then runs east. Loushui River is a tributary of Lishui River.

It flows into the Dongting Lake at Xiaodukou in Jinshi. Its total length is 388 km.

Cities along the river include (listed from mouth to source)

 * Jinshi
 * Lixian
 * Shimen
 * Cili
 * Zhangjiajie

title: Lishui River