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Talk:Alternative 3

More info
There is an excellent article on alternative 3 here: http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/121_a3.shtml. Perhaps worth investigating. I have also read an article in FT where the original author goes to an A3 conference but doesn't really have the heart to say it was all a hoax, it ends with a tongue in cheek comment that he was beginning to beleive it all himself having heard the 'evidence' and been subjected to the zeal of the participants! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.29.102.57 (talk) 14:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Early Comments
This article takes three paragraphs to get to the point. It is not clear what "Alternative 3" is until that point. There's nothing really wrong with the text, it just needs to be improved structurally to explain what Alternative 3 is in the first paragraph, then get on to the explaination of it. --Sam

This article presents one point of view. It should be neutral. 128.250.6.243 04:56, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think the author should go here, and look at the copyright date , and then think about rewriting. Marnanel 01:46, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

Also, if there is a "documented disappearance of literally hundreds of scientists", then a list might start to convince us that the sky is really falling. It would also be helpful to answer the referenced website's claim that " its producers announced that the entire thing had been a joke." Is it true? If so, do you believe the government is pressuring them, or the aliens are mind-controlling them or something? Art LaPella 14:30, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

I keep thinking about how to improve this article and keep stalling because there's just so much wrong with it. There's lots and lots of POV stuff and inaccuracies (for example, a copyright date of April 1 is significant because copyrights on TV programmes never usually show the day and month-- in over twenty years of watching Anglia this is the only example I know of). Marnanel 14:52, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Martian moles
I think I saw this in the 70s. What I remember was images of red rocks of Mars similar to those by the Viking probe and suddenly something moves under the ground, as if a mole were digging under the surface. Was this the program?

(Yes Rich Farmbrough)

I was there - NPOV ?
I saw this, and even kept the Radio Times for some years (I hesitate to suggest I may still have it!). It was not transmitted in April (too obvious), and stretched the credulity of a 15 year old. The copyright date was a clear admission of a hoax. It is amusing that people still believe this, they are probably the same ones who believe that the apollo missions didn'y go to the moon, an that the Earth is flat. Does anyone mind if we remove the NPOV tag now? Rich Farmbrough 17:14, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've just downloaded and watched the programme. Although it's dead creepy, it's not particularly convincing (the actor playing 'Bob Grodin' has a very unconvincing American accent). I believe the article makes it sufficiently clear that the programme was not real, although I think a lot of people would like to believe that there might be salvation in the planets. Eno's 'Music for Films' is well worth purchasing, and his theme music also popped up on a 1981 film called 'Schiele: Excess and Punishment' about Egon Schiele, the artist.

In fact, 'Bob Grodin' is played by Shane Rimmer, the British film industry's favourite cheap American. Ashley Pomeroy 23:20, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Memories of the show
I also remember seeing this programme, but an interesting sidelight is that it was already known to be a hoax before it was broadcast. At least one newspaper (a local one for East Sussex) mentioned it in their TV listings. This must be a strike against the suggestion that only subsequent government pressure forced the programme makers to call it an April Fool.

Incidentally, I think the previous contributer must be in error in saying that the programme was in Radio Times. As it was broadcast on ITV, it would have had to be in TV Times. (Many people have forgotten, or never knew, that up till the 1980's you had to buy two listings magazines for television in the UK!)

Alternative 3 - Original Soundtrack (CD)
Didn't know where to put this and I can't seem to find it here on wikipedia.

In 2001 Lo Recordings released an album named Alternative 3: Original Soundtrack. The music is written and performed by Anne Shenton (Add N to (X)), Barry 7 (Add N to (X)), Steve Claydon (Add N to (X)), Richard Thomas and Jon Tye except tracks 02 (Alternative 1), 09 (Alternative 2), 16 (Alternative 3) & 18 (Brain Drain) written and performed by Tim Gane (Stereolab), Andy Ramsay (Stereolab) and Jon Tye. Produced by Jon Tye.

All music taken from the forthcoming motion picture "Alternative 3" - Is written on the back, I don't recall seeing any Alternative 3 movie ever advertised or any information about it on the internet so I was wondering: What movie?

The booklet contains an introduction to the story and the names of the songs clearly indicate a referance to the original Alternative 3 story so there is no other Alterntive 3 at hand.

What exactly were the three alternatives?
I only vaguely remember seeing the program (I was only 12 or 13 at the time), but I read the book quite recently. There the global crisis was not overpopulation (as it ways says in the article) but a runaway greenhouse effect. The three alternatives were: (i) The use of nuclear weapons to "puncture" holes in the earth's outer atmosphere and release the surplus heat (followed by a program of strict control on future CO2 emissions), (ii) moving human civilisation underground to escape rising surface temperatures and (iii) moving the human race elsewhere in the Solar System. Was the book different from the TV version, or are the three alternatives listed in the article incorrect? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.241.199.27 (talk • contribs).

Thats quite a HOAX!
While this has all been admitted as a Hoax. There are reasons to believe that it was not just a Hoax, but something more. I first saaw the show in Hamilton, Ontario Canada. it was aired by CHCH channel 11. There were NO actor credits at the end of the movie what so ever.

Being an avid UFO buff at the time, I called some friends at CHCH tv including Tom Cherrington and asked about the program. Interestingly enough, the Feds had confiscated the original tape and replaced it with the one with the actors credits!

In 1981, Alternative 3 was in the bookstores here. My friend bought 3 copies for us at Book Villa on King street. More of our friends wanted copies and when he went back a few days later, the bookstore lady told him the book was banned and the Feds confiscated all remaining books.

Now thats what I call a HUGE Hoax.. Or none at all..

BadBoris (talk) 17:14, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

 * BadBoris: Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome.  I actually think THIS article should be referenced there.  --75.178.83.29 (talk) 19:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Too much speculation
Seems crammed full of too much speculation. Which is frowned upon for Wiki. Lots42 (talk) 10:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Trimmed
I've trimmed that article to remove completely unsourced rubbish, and to remove most of the conspiracy angle which frankly is only believed by complete and utter loonies. --TS 21:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

External Links not working
Not sure if this the place to post this, however I tried the 3 external links with streamed copies of the movie: --
 * Alternative 3 Streamed in full and available for download for free at Archive.org
 * Alternative 3 Streamed in full for free at Blinkbox.com
 * Alternative 3 Streaming Video at the The Anomalies Network
 * Archive.org returns an error (The item is not available due to issues with the item's content.)
 * Blinkbox.com says its not available from my country - Canada (Sorry, we don't have the rights to sell this movie in your country)
 * Annomalies Network has rearranged its site so the link no longer works. (Oops! Can not find that page)

I guess the conspiracy continues?

74.15.111.239 (talk) 22:46, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Details of original broadcast
Did the Anglia TV series "Science Report" actually exist? I can find no references to it anywhere other than in articles about Alternative 3 itself, and I have no recollection of the series despite having clear memories of the original broadcast. It has been suggested on a forum for archive TV enthusiasts that it was a fictional series created purely for the purpose of the Alternative 3 hoax.

Also, it has been suggested that the broadcast was delayed until June 20th not by industrial action, but by the fact that Anglia TV couldn't obtain a networked slot for the programme. At the time the ITV network was dominated by the "big five" companies and it was often difficult for regional broadcasters to get the slots they wanted. GDBarry (talk) 11:24, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Alternative 3


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Meadville

Meadville may refer to:

 * Meadville, Mississippi
 * Meadville, Missouri
 * Meadville, Nebraska
 * Meadville, Pennsylvania, the largest U.S. city named Meadville
 * Meadville Area Senior High School
 * Meadville Medical Center
 * Meadville (album), by David Thomas and Two Pale Boys
 * Meadville Corporation, an oil company
 * Meadville Lombard Theological School, a Unitarian Universalist seminary in Chicago

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Meadville


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Gold franc

The gold franc (currency code: XFO) was the unit of account for the Bank for International Settlements from 1930 until April 1, 2003. It was replaced with the special drawing right. It was originally based on the Franc Germinal, and remained at the value the franc was pegged (0.290322 g fine gold) after the countries of the Latin Monetary Union came off the gold standard.

Use in New Hebrides
The gold franc was used in the Anglo-French Condominium of the New Hebrides (now Vanuatu) as the currency in which the joint administration's postal service denominated its stamps, a natural choice as the Universal Postal Union Treaty (beginning in 1874 when the first treaty was agreed and reaffirmed at subsequent Congresses until at least that of 1939—see the various "Actes du Congress ...") denominated the agreed international postal rates in gold franc and gold centime leaving each member country and its dependencies to translate the amounts into their own currencies. This added to the already confused situation in which the Australian dollar and the New Hebrides franc were used in normal trade (and in which even the pound sterling turned up in the columns of earlier joint administration budgetary documents).

Swiss Gold Franc Initiative
On March 9, 2011, a parliamentary initiative was introduced in the National Council of Switzerland to institute a gold franc as additional currency for Switzerland: "The Confederation institutes an official gold franc with a set of coins of different denominations, each having a fixed gold content. It regulates the concessions granted to the licensees authorized to mint coins; minting coins is not taxable." This initiative was examined by the Committee for Economic Affairs and Taxation, which rejected it at the June meeting.

This gold franc would have been defined as 0.1 gram of fine gold. The initiative would not have removed, replaced or pegged the existing Swiss franc, therefore both the gold franc and the Swiss franc would have coexisted side-by-side. Due to the fixed metallic content of the gold franc, its exchange rate with the Swiss franc would have gone up and down according to market supply and demand, like any other free-floating currency.

The gold franc was intended to become a safe-haven currency, to divert international capital flows in times of financial crises away from the Swiss franc.

The gold franc would have been completely independent from the gold reserves of the Swiss National Bank. It would have been minted only by Swiss commercial banks, under the supervision of the Swiss Confederation. The backers of the gold franc hoped that its institution would have made it easier for small savers to invest in gold by reducing the minimum investment and trading unit.

title: Gold franc


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Primary Atomic Reference Clock in Space

The Primary Atomic Reference Clock in Space or PARCS was an atomic-clock mission scheduled to fly on the International Space Station (ISS) in 2008, but cancelled to make way for the Vision for Space Exploration. The mission, to have been funded by NASA, involved a laser-cooled caesium atomic clock, and a time-transfer system using Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites. PARCS was to fly concurrently with the Superconducting Microwave Oscillator (SUMO) a different type of clock that was to be compared against the PARCS clock to test certain theories. The objectives of the mission were to have been:

 * Test gravitational theory
 * Study laser-cooled atoms in microgravity
 * Improve the accuracy of timekeeping on earth

Experiment location
The proposed ISS location for the experiment was on the External Facility of the Japanese Experimental Module (JEM). This location afforded good views of the GPS constellation of satellites, needed for comparing space and ground clocks. In addition, the volume, available power, and coolant system were well matched to the mission requirements.

Goals
The microgravity environment of space allows slowing of atoms to speeds well below those used in terrestrial atomic clocks, providing for substantial improvement in clock accuracy. This very accurate space clock will be compared continuously to the SUMO oscillator, and these two clocks (being fundamentally different) will provide a test of "local position invariance." Comparisons between the space and earth clocks will yield a related, but important measurement of the gravitational frequency shift. Finally, the signals conveyed to the ground through the GPS time-transfer system will serve as a truly international time standard available to anyone on earth.

Institutions and people
PARCS is a cooperative effort between the following organizations:

 * Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), which contributed Flight Hardware Development
 * National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), which contributed Concept/Development Testing
 * University of Colorado, which contributed Gravitational Testing

Staff
Bill Klipstein of JPL was the Project Scientist, and Dave Seidel of JPL was the Project Manager. The Co-Principal Investigators were Don Sullivan and Bill Phillips of NIST, and Neil Ashby of the University of Colorado. John Lipa of Stanford University was the Principal Investigator for SUMO and John Dick of JPL was the Project Scientist for that program.

title: Primary Atomic Reference Clock in Space


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Talk:José Padilla (criminal)

A picture caption is wrong
One states he is in South Carolina, one states he is in Florida, but they're THE SAME PICTURE!!!!1137.110.115.141 (talk) 00:11, 31 October 2009 (UTC) - I was just going to type that... I spent a couple minutes comparing the pictures, and I agree that the pictures are identical. Someone screwed up... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.209.248.9 (talk) 22:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Churchhill's "little eichman's" quote sure seems appropriate now — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.24.57.126 (talk) 22:11, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Convicted on all 3 charges
Jose Padilla was convicted on all 3 charges today. The article needs to be updated, and as the previous consensus below (see: title) discusses, I recommend the title be changed from Prisoner to something more befitting. I suggest Jose Padilla(Terrorist Sympathizer) as he had not committed any acts of terrorism per say, but he did aide and aspire to become one. Pyrex238 23:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

 * So should we change "George W. Bush" to "George W. Bush (former drunken fratboy and cokehead)"? Such characterizations don't belong in article titles.  Will you change it again if his conviction is overturned on appeal?  When updating about the conviction, be sure to mention that the jurors sat down in the courtroom in three rows, clothed in red, white, and blue -- an unbiased, judicial lot. -- Jibal 21:45, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

 * The above criticism needs to be taken seriously. Furthermore, does the subject of this article call himself "Jose" or "Abdullah?" We should call him by the name he prefers to use for himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7081:4601:c053:6846:b0a5:1e60:d947 (talk) 22:22, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Jose Padilla (convicted supporter of terrorism) seems to best reflect his current legal status. However, I am not sure how to go about changing the title of an article, so someone else could try it?Kevinp2 23:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

 * It is improper to refer to him as a "terrorist" or "terrorist supporter." Firstly, use of such a term violates npov because one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.  Secondly, it is debatable whether he is a terrorist or terrorist supporter, even according to an American pov.  The conviction is controversial and questionable.  The use of torture on him, if true, is a flagrant violation of international law and would invalidate the verdict.  I think the current name of the article is the ideal name. Life, Liberty, Property 13:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Indeed, "José Padilla (torture victim)" would be more accurate and neutral, -- Jibal 08:25, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia. Calling him a torture victim or a prisoner sounds like political propaganda. Jose Padilla is now, factually, a convicted supporter of terrorism. The title needs to change.A.V. 18:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Criminal?
“However, more recent evidence suggests that the "dirty bomb" plot was likely a ruse to get out of Pakistan and based on an internet joke website purporting to describe how to build an H-bomb by swinging buckets of uranium as fast as possible.” Sounds more like injustice than crime. Nicmart (talk) 06:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Torture at hands of US government barely mentioned?
"Padilla was taken from a U.S. jail in 2002 by military agents, declared an “enemy combatant” and secretly transported to a military brig in South Carolina. He was imprisoned without charge for nearly four years, subjected to extreme abuse and was unable to communicate with his lawyers or family for two years. The illegal treatment included forcing Padilla into stress positions for hours on end, punching him, depriving him of sleep and threatening him with further torture and death."

Why is important information like this nowhere to be found in the page? Its barely spoken about, except in passing. 2601:6C4:4000:F410:7486:AAD7:89DD:FE16 (talk) 14:11, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Status
Is he still incarcerated or has he been released? 2001:A62:144D:F02:E8D5:25EB:9B7C:D5CF (talk) 09:17, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

 * If his full sentence of 21 years began in 2002, he should have been released by now. If it began in 2007, he might remain in prison until 2028... 2001:A62:144D:F02:E8D5:25EB:9B7C:D5CF (talk) 09:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:José Padilla (criminal)


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Bagram

Bagram (Pashto/) is a town and seat in Bagram District in Parwan Province of Afghanistan, about 60 kilometers north of the capital Kabul. It is the site of an ancient city located at the junction of the Ghorband and Panjshir Valley, near today's city of Charikar, Afghanistan. The location of this historical town made it a key passage from Ancient India along the Silk Road, leading westwards through the mountains towards Bamiyan, and north over the Kushan Pass to the Baghlan Valley and past the Kushan archeological site at Surkh Kotal, to the commercial centre of Balkh and the rest of northern Afghanistan. Bagram was the capital of the Kushan Empire in the first century CE.

Climate

According to the Köppen climate classification system, Bagram has a hot-summer humid continental climate (Dsa) with brief, but cold winters and long, hot and dry summers. Precipitation is most likely between the months of October and April. Dust storms and sand storms occur frequently during certain times of the year and the city is often blanketed by snow in winter months. The annual mean temperature is 12.0 °C

Ancient history
The ancient city of Kapisi is identified with present-day Bagram. The figures of ancient Buddhist and Hindu sculptures show that the city was initially ruled by Indic people who have either migrated or intermingled with the Iranian populations who moved into the region like Kambojas from Bactria.

While the Diadochi were warring amongst themselves, the Mauryan Empire was developing in the northern part of the Indian subcontinent. The founder of the empire, Chandragupta Maurya, confronted a Macedonian invasion force led by Seleucus I in 305 BC and following a brief conflict, an agreement was reached as Seleucus ceded Gandhara and Arachosia (centered on ancient Kandahar) and areas south of Bagram (corresponding to the extreme south-east of modern Afghanistan) to the Mauryans. During the 120 years of the Mauryans in southern Afghanistan, Buddhism was introduced and eventually become a major religion alongside Zoroastrianism and local pagan beliefs.

Bagram became the capital of the Kushan Empire in the first century. The "Bagram treasure" as it has been called, is indicative of intense commercial exchanges between all the cultural centers of the classical time, with the Kushan empire at the junction of the land and sea trade between the east and west. However, the works of art found in Bagram, such as the Begram ivories, are either quite purely Hellenistic, Roman, Chinese or Indian, with only little indications of the cultural syncretism found in Greco-Buddhist art.

Islamic conquest
The Islamic conquest of Afghanistan and the adjoining Pashtun region began in seventh century right after conquest of Persia. However, the complete Islamization of Afghanistan wasn't achieved until the Ghaznavid rule. The modern-day town is believed to be founded by Babur at the site of the ancient city. In Babur's memoirs, the Baburnama, the emphasis of his visit in 1519 is on the colony of Hindu ascetics at Gurh Kattri (Kur Katri), who fascinated him.

Recent history
Bagram hosts the strategic Bagram Airfield, from which most US air activity in Afghanistan took place. The runway was built in 1976, and it was a Soviet air base from 1979 to 1989. There was also a Provincial Reconstruction Team when the US were present in Afghanistan and implemented their counter-insurgency strategy.

Bagram is also the location of the Parwan Detention Facility; this detention facility was the last prison in Afghanistan under management of the US. It was handed back to the Afghan government on 25 March 2013. The detention centre had earlier come into the attention of the news media as it was claimed that prisoners were tortured (see the article Bagram torture and prisoner abuse). At the time of the hand-over of the facility, human-rights groups like Amnesty International have raised concerns about the treatment of prisoners there.

On December 21, 2015, Bagram was the site of a suicide bombing killing 6 people.

On July 1, 2021, US troops departed from the air base, abandoning the outpost over to the Afghan government after 20 years. According to the Afghan commander at the time, the US evacuated the base during the night without any previous official notice to the Afghan army.

title: Bagram


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List of proposed future transport

Transport today is mostly powered by fossil fuel. The reason for this is the ease of use and the existence of mature technologies harnessing this fuel source. Fossil fuels represent a concentrated, relatively compact source of energy. The drawbacks are that they are heavily polluting and rely on limited natural resources. There are many proposals to harness renewable forms of energy, to use fossil fuel more efficiently, or to use human power, or some hybrid of these, to move people and things.

The list below contains some forms of transport not in general use, but considered as possibilities in the future.

Proposed future transport

 * Air-propelled train (abandoned in 19th century)
 * Bounce tube pneumatic travel (Proposed by Robert A. Heinlein in 1956)
 * Vactrain also known as ET3
 * BiModal Glideway (Dual Mode Transportation System) travel (Proposed by William D. Davis, Jr. in 1967)
 * TEV Project (proposed by Will Jones in Summer 2012)
 * Dual-mode vehicle
 * Hyperloop
 * Intelligent Transportation System
 * Jet pack
 * Backpack helicopter
 * Personal air vehicle (Flying car)
 * Personal rapid transit
 * Shweeb
 * Rolling road (proposed by Robert A. Heinlein in 1940)
 * Slidewalk (proposed by Robert A. Heinlein in 1948)
 * Teleportation
 * SkyTran
 * Spacecraft propulsion or Space transport
 * Launch loop
 * Orbital ring
 * Light sail (proposed by Jack Vance in 1962)
 * Space elevator (proposed by Russian scientist Konstantin Tsiolkovsky in 1895)

title: List of proposed future transport


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Rachel Miner

Rachel Miner (born July 29, 1980) is an American actress. She made her feature film debut in Woody Allen's Alice (1990), and came to prominence with her portrayal of Michelle Bauer on the CBS soap opera Guiding Light (1990–1995). Her other film credits include Bully (2001), Haven (2004), The Black Dahlia, Penny Dreadful (both 2006), and In Their Skin (2012). Outside film, Miner is known for her recurring portrayals of Dani on Showtime's Californication (2007–2008), Dawn Trager on FX's Sons of Anarchy (2011–2012), and Meg on The WB's Supernatural (2009–2020).

Background
A third-generation actor and Manhattan native, Miner is the daughter of director and producer Peter Miner and the granddaughter of director/producer Worthington Miner and actress Frances Fuller. She attended New York's Professional Children's School. In a 1993 interview, Miner named Jodie Foster as the actress she most admired, and expressed the hope that she might have the opportunity to tackle a similar range of roles.

Acting career
Miner's television credits include Vickie in Shining Time Station: 'Tis a Gift (1990), Michelle Bauer on Guiding Light (1990–1995), a guest starring role as Laurel in a Sex and the City episode, "Twenty-something Girls vs. Thirty-something Women" and Astrid in NY-LON.

In 2001, she starred in Bully. The plot follows several young adults in South Florida who enact a murder plot against a mutual friend who has emotionally, physically and sexually abused them for years. The film itself was based on the July 15, 1993 murder of Bobby Kent. Bully received mixed reviews from critics and has a "Rotten" rating of 54% on Rotten Tomatoes based on 91 reviews with an average score of 5.7 out of 10. The film holds a score of 45 out of 100 on Metacritic, based on 26 critics indicating 'Mixed or average reviews'. Miner won an award at the Stockholm Film Festival for Best Actress.

In 2005, Miner portrayed a young woman on a journey to discover who she is and why multiple enemies want her dead in the action film Circadian Rhythm. The movie was critically ignored, and was poorly received in its few reviews. One reviewer stated that the film was a "directionless jumble of boring scenes strung together tenuously by a plot that feels like they were making it up as they went along," and that watching the film's allegedly ‘wire-fu’ fight scenes was akin to "being over at a friend's house when they’re getting yelled at by their parents."

She appeared in 12 episodes of the 2007 television series Californication, as Dani California, a reference to a character appearing in several songs by the Red Hot Chili Peppers. In 2008, she appeared in "The Sacrifice", an episode of Fear Itself. That same year she was also cast as the second lead in the psychological thriller The Butterfly Effect 3: Revelations. The movie was filmed in Michigan and concluded filming in October 2008. It debuted at After Dark Horrorfest III, a horror film festival held in January 2009. The film was released on DVD on March 31, 2009.

From 2009 to 2013, Miner took over the role of Meg, a recurring antagonist and demon in Supernatural. The writers wanted Meg's original actress Nicki Aycox to reprise the role in later seasons, but ultimately cast Miner for storyline purposes. The character was eventually killed off later. Tim Janson of Mania gave Miner's portrayal of Meg a positive review, saying no one played Meg "with such dripping sarcasm as Rachel Miner". He felt she "always adds spice when she appears". Similarly, Diana Steenbergen of IGN felt Miner played the role "with vicious flair" and "[conveyed] Meg's brutality well, right from the beginning". As time passed, she noted that the actress "has done well taking over the role". In 2020, Miner returned to Supernatural during the fifteenth season playing the character of a cosmic entity known as the Empty that takes Meg's physical appearance. Miner reappeared later in the season, reprising the role of the Empty.

In 2010, Miner starred alongside James Franco in the Grasshopper segment of Love & Distrust. The next year she was cast as Sgt. Hannah in the horror film 51, which began filming in April 2011 in Louisiana. The film was released in limited theaters as part of "After Dark Originals".

Charity work
Since September 2017, Miner has been the executive director of the non-profit organization Random Acts, Inc.

Personal life
In 1998, she married Home Alone actor Macaulay Culkin, when they were both 18. The couple separated in 2000 and divorced in 2002. In 2000, Miner dated Brad Renfro during and after production of Bully.

Miner has been a vegetarian since age 9.

Miner was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2010. She has since become an advocate for representation of disabled characters.

Music videos

 * Sunday, Sonic Youth (1998)
 * Only One, Yellowcard (2005)

title: Rachel Miner


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Off-road transport

Off-road transport is moving people or articles on land without the use of paved roads, typically using off-road vehicles.

Off-roading
Off-roading is the activity of driving or riding a vehicle on unsurfaced roads or tracks, made of materials such as sand, gravel, riverbeds, mud, snow, rocks, and other natural terrain.

Off-road racing
Off-road racing is a format of racing where various classes of specially modified vehicles (including cars, trucks, motorcycles, and buggies) compete in races through off-road environments.

Off-road vehicle

An off-road vehicle is considered to be any type of vehicle which is capable of driving on and off paved or gravel surface. It is generally characterized by having large tires with deep, open treads, a flexible suspension, or even caterpillar tracks. Other vehicles that do not travel public streets or highways are generally termed off-highway vehicles, including tractors, forklifts, cranes, backhoes, bulldozers, and golf carts.

Off-road vehicles have an enthusiastic following because of their many uses and versatility. The use of higher clearance and higher traction vehicles enables access on trails and forest roads that have rough and low traction surfaces.

title: Off-road transport


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Talk:Off-road transport

Early comments
Off Road transportaion = semisubaquatic hover crafts large enough to house a community.

title: Talk:Off-road transport


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Mexico, Pennsylvania

Mexico may refer to:

 * Mexico, Juniata County, Pennsylvania
 * Mexico, Montour County, Pennsylvania

title: Mexico, Pennsylvania


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User:Casito

 * Please comment on the talk page, not here. Thanks.

Casito, whose real name is Zach, was born in 1982. He attends graduate school at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana after graduating with a degree in mechanical engineering from Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. Casito has been a member of Wikipedia since December 2003. Casito is currently editing Wikipedia on an infrequent basis, since he devotes most of his time to his studies, and to climbing.

Areas of interest, academic focus, or Wikipedia contribution

 * Climbing
 * Archery
 * Fluid mechanics
 * Free software
 * Geology
 * History of the old northwest
 * Linguistics
 * Photography
 * Raytracing
 * Surface metrology

title: User:Casito


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Thornaby-on-Tees

Thornaby-on-Tees, commonly referred to as Thornaby, is a town and civil parish in North Yorkshire, England. Situated on the south bank of the River Tees, approximately 3 mi west of Middlesbrough and roughly 3 mi south of Stockton, it forms part of the Teesside built-up area. It had a population of 24,741 at the 2011 census. The town is home to Queen's Campus, Durham University.

Traditionally in the North Riding of Yorkshire, Thornaby was incorporated as a municipal borough between 1892 and 1968, when it was transferred to the County Borough of Teesside. In 1974, Thornaby was transferred to the re-established borough of Stockton-on-Tees since 1974 and became part of the county of Cleveland between 1974 and 1996. A civil parish called Thornaby was re-created in 1996 and it was returned ceremonially to North Yorkshire in the same year.

Prehistoric
There are other signs of Thornaby being a much older settlement. Traces of prehistoric man have been found, the earliest being a stone axe, 8 inches long, dating back to the Mesolithic Period (about 3000 BC). In 1926, a dugout canoe said to date from about 1600 – 1400 BC was found in the mud under 8 ft of water opposite Thornaby High Wood. An arrowhead of the Neolithic Period (about 3000 BC) was found in a garden on Thornaby Village Green.

Danes
The name Thornaby came into existence about AD 800 when the land was given by Halfdene (Halfdan Ragnarsson), King of the Danes, to Thormod, one of his noblemen, hence "Thormods-by" – Thormod's farmstead. Although the -by suffix originally meant a farmstead, many of these grew into villages, taking the -by suffix with them in their names as with other villages in the area, such as Danby, Faceby, Ingleby, Maltby and Ormesby.

During the Battle of Hastings (1066), one of William the Conqueror's noblemen, Robert I de Brus, marched north with a garrison of men and occupied the area of Cleveland. William gave him those lands to control including Thornaby and Middlesbrough.

King Sweyn II of Denmark, on 9 September 1069, defeated the Normans at York by killing the entire garrison of 3,000 men. William swore an oath to take revenge on Sweyn by destroying every house and dwelling in the lands under Sweyn's rule, leaving all the land in the north east of Yorkshire barren and bare.

In the Domesday Book Thornaby is mentioned five times, Thornaby's first mention in the Domesday Book states:- "Robert Malet has these lands and they are waste." It appears that they remained undeveloped until the early 19th century as "Thurnaby waaste" is mentioned in a poem by Tennyson called "The Northern Farmer.".

Over the centuries there have been a number of different spellings of the name Thornaby including Turmozbi, Tormozbi, Tormozbia and Thurmozbi. The form Thornaby first appears in 1665 and refers to old Thornaby village, south western area of the present town which is near the River Tees as it flows north east.

The Five Lamps of St Peter's Church
It is said that Robert de Thormodbi, wounded in the Crusades at Acre, swore to raise a shrine to the Virgin Mary if he survived his wounds. He did, and as part of his wish a shrine niche to the Virgin Mary, lit by five sanctuary lamps, was placed in St Peter's Church.

A town from the marshes
In 1825, old Thornaby was centred around St Peter's Church and the old village green. Thornaby Carrs (marshes) had been a site of intermittent horse racing before moving to the now former Stockton Racecourse after the River Tees was straightened in 1810, a short distance down stream. From 1825, industry started to be built south of Stockton's existing port industry as Stockton and Darlington Railway had been established, old Stockton railway station being just on the other side of the bank. The first site was William Smith's pottery with the area quickly growing with shipbuilding and engineering companies established on the marshes. From 1840 until June 1987 heavy engineering firm Head Wrightson was a major employer in Thornaby.

The area developing on the south bank of the Tees opposite Stockton was initially known as South Stockton. As Stockton's port industry moved to Middlesbrough, shipbuilding was replaced by iron works. A new railway line opened up the area south of the river for further development, with a South Stockton railway station built in 1882.

The new settlement grew as a work force for new industry, spreading south down and between Thornaby Road, the new Westbury Street, and Mandale Road (once known as Acklam Road). The built-up area of South Stockton grew to merge with the old village of Thornaby; on 6 October 1892 South Stockton and Thornaby formally merged to form a municipal borough which was named Thornaby-on-Tees. South Stockton station was renamed to Thornaby. Thornaby Town Hall was built for the old South Stockton Local Board, and was completed in 1892 a few months before the board was replaced by the new borough council.

The airfield, 608 squadron and Spitfires
The earliest known flying in Thornaby took place in 1912 when Matthew Young of the Vale Farm was paid 100 Gold Sovereigns for the use of a field for an airshow. Taking place on a Saturday afternoon in June or July, one of the main events was flying by Gustav Hamel, an early flying pioneer. The next known use was by the Royal Flying Corps who used the same fields between 1914 and 1918 as a staging post between Catterick and Marske aerodromes.

In about 1925 negotiations began on the opening of a full-time aerodrome and in the late 1920s the Air Ministry constructed an airfield to the south of the town and the station which was the second permanent aerodrome to be built in Yorkshire (the first being Catterick) was opened on 29 September 1929. During the Second World War, Thornaby came under the control of 18 group, Coastal Command, before this however it had come under Flying Training, Fighter and Bomber Commands, and post-war under Reserve and Fighter Commands, at this time (post-war) it was also used by the Royal Air Force Regiment. During the war a variety of tasks were carried out from RAF Thornaby, such as, attacks on targets in Europe, anti-submarine patrols, operational training, strikes against enemy shipping, leaflet dropping and air sea rescue operations.

608 (North Riding) squadron

Of all the squadrons to have been based at RAF Thornaby during its operational period, "Thornaby's own" 608 (North Riding) squadron is probably the squadron best remembered by the townsfolk. It was formed at Thornaby on 17 March 1930 and went on to serve within both Coastal and Bomber Commands during the Second World War. After the war, on 10 May 1946 the squadron was re-formed at Thornaby and carried on in Reserve Command "at home" until the squadron disbanded for the last time on 10 March 1957. 608 (North Riding) Squadron's Standard, which was approved by the Queen and bears their battle honours, can be seen housed in York Minster under the Astronomical Clock where it was laid-up on 14 November 1959. The numerous items of glass and silverware which were presented to the squadron during their service are held by Middlesbrough Council, are housed in Middlesbrough Town Hall and are to be returned to the squadron should it ever re-form.

Acquiring inland areas
The last R.A.F aircraft to leave the airfield (Hawker Hunter F6s) left on 1 October 1958 and further use of Thornaby as a regional airport on 23 February 1962 ended when all but 60 acre of land was purchased from the Air Ministry by Thornaby-on-Tees Borough Council.

As Thornaby changed hand to the County Borough of Teesside (1968–1974) then, on its third attempt, into the Borough of Stockton-on-Tees (this was initially as a district of Cleveland county). Development in the 1960s and 1970s on transforming the airfield, demolishing its buildings, into housing, shops, offices, a sport centre and a light industrial estate, the light industrial estate was the first in the wider area and therefore called Teesside Industrial Estate.

Many symbols of Thornaby's aeronautical past were placed for prosperity with streets (such as Allensway), buildings and public houses using names of Royal Air Force aircraft, stations and personnel. The Bader School (built on the former airfield) on Kintyre Drive was named after and opened by Sir Douglas Bader on 10 November 1971. In 1976 a stained glass window in St Paul's Church on Thornaby Road was dedicated to the RAF at Thornaby and in 1997 a statue was erected on Thornaby Road, it is dedicated to all who served at RAF Thornaby. In 2007 a full-size replica Supermarine Spitfire aircraft was erected on the roundabout at the junction of Thornaby Road, Bader Avenue and Trenchard Avenue. Hidden beneath the roundabout is part of a runway (one of three) which used to run east to west.

Rise and fall of Pavilion towers
Thornaby town centre declined post war with deindustrialation and the town's population centre shifting south east on to the old airfield. Facilities followed as the new Pavilion shops opened and the old centre cut off by the A66. The former Industry around the old Thornaby Carrs centre became Teesdale Business Park leaving the station and town hall out of place in the new surroundings. In the late 2000s, Thornaby Pavilion was designated as the new town centre. Housing around the shops were cleared and new shops built opposite the older shops to form a pedestrian high street. An official relaunch event was held in the now Thornaby town centre on 25 April 2009. High rises flats in the town centre have been demolished and with the towns fund, they are plans for the former Npower offices site are planned to be demolished and a replacement for Thornaby Pool, an indoor baths on Thornaby Road, built in its place. The former Golden Eagle Hotel is also to be demolished.

Community and culture
Thornaby won a number of awards in 2008; the silver gilt award for best small cities, Northumbria in Bloom, which was repeated in 2011. Thornaby Cemetery had Cemetery of the Year award in 2006. The cemetery had lost then lost its Green flag award until 2011.

On 10 November 2011 an R.A.F. Search and Rescue Sea King Helicopter paid a three-hour visit to Bader primary to help celebrate the 40th anniversary of Sir Douglas Bader opening the school. The day of activities included a visit by representatives from RAF Leeming, the Commanding Officer at Catterick Garrison, Middlesbrough Armed Forces Careers Office and the Cleveland Mountain Rescue Team.

Thornaby held its eleventh Yorkshire Day event in August 2017. The annual Thornaby Show takes place at the beginning of September, it is estimated that more than 10,000 people turn up over the course of the day.

In January 2014 a McDonald's and Asda opened on the site of the former Tristar Neasham site. Teesside Park is the location of a shopping park which occupies a former racecourse.

Governance
There are two tiers of local government covering Thornaby, at parish (town) and unitary authority level: Thornaby Town Council and Stockton-on-Tees Borough Council. The borough council is also a constituent member of the Tees Valley Combined Authority, which is led by the directly elected Mayor of Tees Valley. The town council is based at the Town Hall on Mandale Road.

Thornaby was historically a township and chapelry in the ancient parish of Stainton in the North Riding of Yorkshire. A local government district called South Stockton was established covering the northern part of the township in 1863, governed by a local board. In 1892 the South Stockton Local Board was abolished when a municipal borough was created covering the whole township of Thornaby, with the new borough being named "Thornaby-on-Tees". It was amalgamated with other areas in 1968 to form the county borough of Teesside. In 1974, the town became part of the enlarged Stockton-on-Tees district of Cleveland non-metropolitan county.

Thornaby Town Council was created in 1995. Cleveland county was abolished in 1996 under the Banham review. In 1997 the parts of the abolished county of Cleveland south of the River Tees, including Thornaby, were placed in North Yorkshire for ceremonial purposes.

In 2012 the town council purchased Thornaby Town Hall from the borough council for restorations. The hall, dating back to 1890–92, had been unoccupied since the 1968 county borough of Teesside amalgamation. It is now the main building used by Thornaby Town Council.

Church of England
The Church of St Peter ad Vincula on the village green is of 12th-century origin but a place of worship existed at the time of the Domesday Book of 1086. The unusual dedication to St Peter ad Vincula ("St Peter in chains") is derived from the ancient Basilica of San Pietro in Vincoli in Rome. The building, with a simple nave and a bell turret with two bells, was originally dedicated to St Mary Magdalene. Grace Pace, the mother of Captain James Cook, was baptised at St Peter's in 1702. The larger St Paul's serves most of the town.

Acklam Road
Thornaby Cricket Club is situated at Mandale Bottoms (Acklam Road) and has been in existence since 1892. The main teams are in the North Yorkshire and South Durham Cricket League.

Teesside Golf Club opened in 1901. It is in of the Teesside and District Union of Golf Clubs and therefore the Yorkshire Union of Golf Clubs

Thornaby FC play in the Northern League Division one. It was established as 'Thornaby' in 2000. The club play at Teesdale Park ground, Acklam Road.

Thornaby Road
Thornaby and Ingleby Barwick Football Club (TIBS FC) play in the North Riding Football League division one, it was established in 1997. The club play at a grounds off Thornaby Road and train at Conyers School.

Rail
The town is served by Thornaby railway station, operated and owned by Northern, who operate rail services to Newcastle, Sunderland, Darlington, Redcar, Hexham and Whitby. TransPennine Express provides direct rail services to Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester and York. LNER also provides a direct rail service to York and London Kings Cross

Road
Thornaby is served by
 * the A19 to the town's east heading north–south
 * A66 to the town's north heading west/ east and
 * A174 heading south east to Whitby.

Public Services

Arriva North East and Stagecoach provide bus services to Thornaby and National Express and Megabus operate coach travel from Middlesbrough bus station.

Secondary
Thornaby is served by three secondary schools; St Patrick's Catholic College, Thornaby Academy and Westlands Academy.

College
Thornaby is home is Stockton Riverside College, a major provider of further education in the Tees Valley with around 10,000 full & part-time students. It is labelled Stockton due to it being in or near the former Stockton South settlement, which lied on the southern banks of the river Tees (Yorkshire) and merged into Thornaby on Tees.

University
Adjacent to the college is Durham University's Queen's Campus. This was founded in 1992 as a joint venture between Durham and Teesside universities, becoming exclusively part of Durham University in 1998. In 2019, the university moved the Queen's Campus colleges and departments to Durham city, and repurposed the campus as a new International Study Centre, run by Study Group.

Notable people

 * Grace Pace (the mother of Captain James Cook).
 * Award-winning author Pat Barker lived in Millbank Lane and is best known for her Regeneration Trilogy of books about the First World War, the third of which, The Ghost Road won the 1995 Man Booker Prize.
 * TV-Personality Holly Hagan, one of the original stars from MTV show Geordie Shore was born in Thornaby.
 * Actor Richard Griffiths was born in Thornaby and was best known for his role as Vernon Dursley in the Harry Potter movies and as Uncle Monty in the cult film Withnail and I. He won many awards for his acting in the film The History Boys.
 * Politician Ray Mallon who served as the directly-elected Mayor of Middlesbrough between 2002 and 2015. A former police officer, Mallon earned the nickname robocop. He resigned from the police after pleading guilty to charges of misconduct.
 * Paul Curran – the championship cyclist was born in Thornaby.
 * Max Jones, pupil at Robert Atkinson school, was a seven-time Olympic athletics coach and was the GB Team leader at the Sydney and Athens Olympic Games. Max was the Performance Director for UK Athletics 1997 to 2005.
 * Norma Farnes was born and grew up in Thornaby. She went to London and ended up as Spike Milligan's and Eric Sykes's manager. Norma has edited and written several successful books.
 * Sam Gowland, a reality TV star, was raised in Thornaby.

title: Thornaby-on-Tees


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Global dimming

Global dimming is a decline in the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth's surface. It is caused by atmospheric particulate matter, predominantly sulfate aerosols, which are components of air pollution. Global dimming was observed soon after the first systematic measurements of solar irradiance began in the 1950s. This weakening of visible sunlight proceeded at the rate of 4–5% per decade until the 1980s. During these years, air pollution increased due to post-war industrialization. Solar activity did not vary more than the usual during this period.

As aerosols have a cooling effect, and global dimming has masked the extent of global warming experienced to date, with the most polluted regions even experiencing cooling in the 1970s. Global dimming has interfered with the water cycle by lowering evaporation, and thus has probably reduced rainfall in certain areas. It may have weakened the Monsoon of South Asia and caused the entire tropical rain belt to shift southwards between 1950 and 1985, with a limited recovery afterwards. Record levels of particulate pollution in the Northern Hemisphere caused or at least exacerbated the monsoon failure behind the 1984 Ethiopian famine.

Since the 1980s, a decrease in air pollution has led to a partial reversal of the dimming trend, sometimes referred to as global brightening. This global brightening had contributed to the acceleration of global warming, which began in the 1990s. According to climate models, the dimming effect of aerosols most likely offsets around 0.5 C-change of warming as of 2021. As nations act to reduce the toll of air pollution on the health of their citizens, the masking effect on global warming is expected to decline further. The scenarios for climate action required to meet 1.5 C-change and 2 C-change targets incorporate the predicted decrease in aerosol levels. However, model simulations of the effects of aerosols on weather systems remain uncertain.

The processes behind global dimming are similar to stratospheric aerosol injection. This is a proposed solar geoengineering intervention which aims to counteract global warming through intentional releases of reflective aerosols. Stratospheric aerosol injection could be very effective at stopping or reversing warming but it would also have substantial effects on the global water cycle, regional weather, and ecosystems. Furthermore, it would have to be carried out over centuries to prevent a rapid and violent return of the warming.

History

In the 1970s, numerous studies showed that atmospheric aerosols could affect the propagation of sunlight through the atmosphere, a measure also known as direct solar irradiance. One study showed that less sunlight was filtering through at the height of 1.7 km above Los Angeles, even on those days when there was no visible smog. Another suggested that sulfate pollution or a volcano eruption could provoke the onset of an ice age. In the 1980s, Atsumu Ohmura, a geography researcher at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, found that solar radiation striking the Earth's surface had declined by more than 10% over the three previous decades, even as the global temperature had been generally rising since the 1970s. In the 1990s, this was followed by the papers describing multi-decade declines in Estonia, Germany, Israel and across the former Soviet Union.

Subsequent research estimated an average reduction in sunlight striking the terrestrial surface of around 4–5% per decade over the late 1950s–1980s, and 2–3% per decade when 1990s were included. Notably, solar radiation at the top of the atmosphere did not vary by more than 0.1-0.3% in all that time, strongly suggesting that the reasons for the dimming were on Earth. Additionally, only visible light and infrared radiation were dimmed, rather than the ultraviolet part of the spectrum. Further, the dimming had occurred even when the skies were clear, and it was in fact stronger than during the cloudy days, proving that it was not caused by changes in cloud cover alone.

Anthropogenic sulfates

Global dimming is primarily caused by the presence of sulfate particles which hang in the Earth's atmosphere as aerosols. These aerosols have both a direct contribution to dimming, as they reflect sunlight like tiny mirrors. They also have an indirect effect as nuclei, meaning that water droplets in clouds coalesce around the particles. Increased pollution causes more particulates and thereby creates clouds consisting of a greater number of smaller droplets (that is, the same amount of water is spread over more droplets). The smaller droplets make clouds more reflective, so that more incoming sunlight is reflected back into space and less reaches the Earth's surface. In models, these smaller droplets also decrease rainfall.

Before the Industrial Revolution, the main source of sulfate aerosols was dimethyl sulfide produced by some types of oceanic plankton. Emissions from volcano activity were the second largest source, although large volcanic eruptions, such as the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo, dominate in the years when they occur. In 1990, the IPCC First Assessment Report estimated dimethyl sulfide emissions at 40 million tons per year, while volcano emissions were estimated at 10 million tons. These annual levels have been largely stable for a long time. On the other hand, global human-caused emissions of sulfur into the atmosphere increased from less than 3 million tons per year in 1860 to 15 million tonnes in 1900, 40 million tonnes in 1940 and about 80 million tonnes in 1980. This meant that by 1980, the human-caused emissions from the burning of sulfur-containing fuels (mostly coal and bunker fuel) became at least as large as all natural emissions of sulfur-containing compounds. The report also concluded that "in the industrialized regions of Europe and North America, anthropogenic emissions dominate over natural emissions by about a factor of ten or even more".

Black carbon

Another important type of aerosol is black carbon, colloquially known as soot. It is formed due to incomplete combustion of fossil fuels, as well as of wood and other plant matter. Globally, the single largest source of black carbon is from grassland and forest fires, including both wildfires and intentional burning. However, coal use is responsible for the majority (60 to 80%) of black carbon emissions in Asia and Africa, while diesel combustion produces 70% of black carbon in Europe and The Americas.

Black carbon in the lower atmosphere is a major contributor to 7 million premature deaths caused by air pollution every year. Its presence is particularly visible, as the so-called "brown clouds" appear in heavily polluted areas. In fact, it was 1970s research into the Denver brown cloud which had first found that black carbon particles absorb solar energy and so can affect the amount of visible sunlight. Later research found that black carbon is 190 times more effective at absorbing sunlight within clouds than the regular dust from soil particles. At worst, all clouds within an atmospheric layer 3-5 km thick are visibly darkened, and the plume can reach transcontinental scale (i.e. the Asian brown cloud.) Even so, the overall dimming from black carbon is much lower than that from the sulfate particles.

Reversal
After 1990, the global dimming trend had clearly switched to global brightening. This followed measures taken to combat air pollution by the developed nations, typically through flue-gas desulfurization installations at thermal power plants, such as wet scrubbers or fluidized bed combustion. In the United States, sulfate aerosols have declined significantly since 1970 with the passage of the Clean Air Act, which was strengthened in 1977 and 1990. According to the EPA, from 1970 to 2005, total emissions of the six principal air pollutants, including sulfates, dropped by 53% in the US. By 2010, this reduction in sulfate pollution led to estimated healthcare cost savings valued at $50 billion annually. Similar measures were taken in Europe, such as the 1985 Helsinki Protocol on the Reduction of Sulfur Emissions under the Convention on Long-Range Transboundary Air Pollution, and with similar improvements. On the other hand, a 2009 review found that dimming continued to increase in China after stabilizing in the 1990s and intensified in India, consistent with their continued industrialization, while the US, Europe, and South Korea continued to brighten. Evidence from Zimbabwe, Chile and Venezuela also pointed to increased dimming during that period, albeit at a lower confidence level due to the lower number of observations. Later research found that over China, the dimming trend continued at a slower rate after 1990, and did not begin to reverse until around 2005. Due to these contrasting trends, no statistically significant change had occurred on a global scale from 2001 to 2012. Post-2010 observations indicate that the global decline in aerosol concentrations and global dimming continued, with pollution controls on the global shipping industry playing a substantial role in the recent years. Since nearly 90% of the human population lives in the Northern Hemisphere, clouds there are far more affected by aerosols than in the Southern Hemisphere, but these differences have halved in the two decades since 2000, providing further evidence for the ongoing global brightening.

Cooling from sulfate aerosols
Aerosols have a cooling effect, which has masked the total extent of global warming experienced to date.

It has been understood for a long time that any effect on solar irradiance from aerosols would necessarily impact Earth's radiation balance. Reductions in atmospheric temperatures have already been observed after large volcanic eruptions such as the 1963 eruption of Mount Agung in Bali, 1982 El Chichón eruption in Mexico, 1985 Nevado del Ruiz eruption in Colombia and 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines. However, even the major eruptions only result in temporary jumps of sulfur particles, unlike the more sustained increases caused by anthropogenic pollution.

In 1990, the IPCC First Assessment Report acknowledged that "Human-made aerosols, from sulphur emitted largely in fossil fuel combustion can modify clouds and this may act to lower temperatures", while "a decrease in emissions of sulphur might be expected to increase global temperatures". However, lack of observational data and difficulties in calculating indirect effects on clouds left the report unable to estimate whether the total impact of all anthropogenic aerosols on the global temperature amounted to cooling or warming. By 1995, the IPCC Second Assessment Report had confidently assessed the overall impact of aerosols as negative (cooling); however, aerosols were recognized as the largest source of uncertainty in future projections in that report and the subsequent ones.

Warming from black carbon
Unlike sulfate pollution, black carbon contributes to both global dimming and global warming, since its particles absorb sunlight and heat up instead of reflecting it away. These particles also develop thick coatings over time, which can increase the initial absorption by up to 40%. Because the rate at which these coatings are formed varies depending on the season, the warming from black carbon varies seasonally as well.

Though this warming is weaker than the -induced warming or the cooling from sulfates, it can be regionally significant when black carbon is deposited over ice masses like mountain glaciers and the Greenland ice sheet. There, it reduces their albedo and increases their absorption of solar radiation, which accelerates their melting. Black carbon also has an outsized contribution to local warming inside polluted cities. Even the indirect effect of soot particles acting as cloud nuclei is not strong enough to provide cooling: the "brown clouds" formed around soot particles were known to have a net warming effect since the 2000s. Black carbon pollution is particularly strong over India: thus, it is considered to be one of the few regions where cleaning up air pollution would reduce, rather than increase, warming.

Minor role of aircraft contrails

Aircraft leave behind visible contrails (also known as vapor trails) as they travel. These contrails both reflect incoming solar radiation and trap outgoing longwave radiation that is emitted by the Earth. Because contrails reflect sunlight only during the day, but trap heat day and night, they are normally considered to cause net warming, albeit very small. A 1992 estimate was between 3.5 mW/m2 and 17 mW/m2 – hundreds of times smaller than the radiative forcing from major greenhouse gases.

However, some scientists argued that the daytime cooling effect from contrails was much stronger than usually estimated, and this argument attracted attention following the September 11 attacks. Because no commercial aircraft flew across the US in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, this period was considered a real-world demonstration of contrail-free weather. Across 4,000 weather stations in the continental United States, the diurnal temperature variation (the difference in the day's highs and lows at a fixed station) was widened by 1.1 C-change – the largest recorded increase in 30 years. In the southern US, the difference was diminished by about 6 F-change, and by 5 F-change in the US midwest. This was interpreted by some scientists as a proof of a strong cooling influence of aircraft contrails.

Ultimately, follow-up studies found that a natural change in cloud cover which occurred at the time was sufficient to explain these findings. When the global response to the 2020 coronavirus pandemic led to a reduction in global air traffic of nearly 70% relative to 2019, multiple studies found "no significant response of diurnal surface air temperature range" as the result of contrail changes, and either "no net significant global ERF" (effective radiative forcing) or a very small warming effect.

Historical cooling
At the peak of global dimming, it was able to counteract the warming trend completely. By 1975, the continually increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases have overcome the masking effect and dominated ever since. Even then, regions with high concentrations of sulfate aerosols due to air pollution had initially experienced cooling, in contradiction to the overall warming trend. The eastern United States was a prominent example: the temperatures there declined by 0.7 C-change between 1970 and 1980, and by up to 1 C-change in the Arkansas and Missouri.

Brightening and accelerated warming
Starting in the 1980s, the reduction in global dimming has contributed to higher global temperatures. Hot extremes accelerated as global dimming abated. It has been estimated that since the mid-1990s, peak daily temperatures in northeast Asia and hottest days of the year in Western Europe would have been substantially less hot if aerosol concentrations had stayed the same as before. Some of the acceleration of sea level rise, as well as Arctic amplification and the associated Arctic sea ice decline, was also attributed to the reduction in aerosol masking.

In Europe, the declines in aerosol concentrations since the 1980s had also reduced the associated fog, mist and haze: altogether, it was responsible for about 10–20% of daytime warming across Europe, and about 50% of the warming over the more polluted Eastern Europe. Because aerosol cooling depends on reflecting sunlight, air quality improvements had a negligible impact on wintertime temperatures, but had increased temperatures from April to September by around 1 C-change in Central and Eastern Europe. The central and eastern United States experienced warming of 0.3 C-change between 1980 and 2010 as sulfate pollution was reduced, even as sulfate particles still accounted for around 25% of all particulates. By 2021, the northeastern coast of the United States was one of the fastest-warming regions of North America, as the slowdown of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation increased temperatures in that part of the North Atlantic Ocean.

In 2020, COVID-19 lockdowns provided a notable "natural experiment", as there had been a marked decline in sulfate and black carbon emissions caused by the curtailed road traffic and industrial output. That decline did have a detectable warming impact: it was estimated to have increased global temperatures by 0.01-0.02 C-change initially and up to 0.03 C-change by 2023, before disappearing. Regionally, the lockdowns were estimated to increase temperatures by 0.05-0.15 C-change in eastern China over January–March, and then by 0.04-0.07 C-change over Europe, eastern United States, and South Asia in March–May, with the peak impact of 0.3 C-change in some regions of the United States and Russia. In the city of Wuhan, the urban heat island effect was found to have decreased by 0.24 C-change at night and by 0.12 C-change overall during the strictest lockdowns.

Future
Since changes in aerosol concentrations already have an impact on the global climate, they would necessarily influence future projections as well. In fact, it is impossible to fully estimate the warming impact of all greenhouse gases without accounting for the counteracting cooling from aerosols.

Climate models started to account for the effects of sulfate aerosols around the IPCC Second Assessment Report; when the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report was published in 2007, every climate model had integrated sulfates, but only 5 were able to account for less impactful particulates like black carbon. By 2021, CMIP6 models estimated total aerosol cooling in the range from 0.1 C-change to 0.7 C-change; The IPCC Sixth Assessment Report selected the best estimate of a 0.5 C-change cooling provided by sulfate aerosols, while black carbon amounts to about 0.1 C-change of warming. While these values are based on combining model estimates with observational constraints, including those on ocean heat content, the matter is not yet fully settled. The difference between model estimates mainly stems from disagreements over the indirect effects of aerosols on clouds.

Regardless of the current strength of aerosol cooling, all future climate change scenarios project decreases in particulates and this includes the scenarios where 1.5 C-change and 2 C-change targets are met: their specific emission reduction targets assume the need to make up for lower dimming. Since models estimate that the cooling caused by sulfates is largely equivalent to the warming caused by atmospheric methane (and since methane is a relatively short-lived greenhouse gas), it is believed that simultaneous reductions in both would effectively cancel each other out. Yet, in the recent years, methane concentrations had been increasing at rates exceeding their previous period of peak growth in the 1980s, with wetland methane emissions driving much of the recent growth,  while air pollution is getting cleaned up aggressively. These trends are some of the main reasons why 1.5 C-change warming is now expected around 2030, as opposed to the mid-2010s estimates where it would not occur until 2040.

It has also been suggested that aerosols are not given sufficient attention in regional risk assessments, in spite of being more influential on a regional scale than globally. For instance, a climate change scenario with high greenhouse gas emissions but strong reductions in air pollution would see 0.2 C-change more global warming by 2050 than the same scenario with little improvement in air quality, but regionally, the difference would add 5 more tropical nights per year in northern China and substantially increase precipitation in northern China and northern India. Likewise, a paper comparing current level of clean air policies with a hypothetical maximum technically feasible action under otherwise the same climate change scenario found that the latter would increase the risk of temperature extremes by 30–50% in China and in Europe.

Unfortunately, because historical records of aerosols are sparser in some regions than in others, accurate regional projections of aerosol impacts are difficult. Even the latest CMIP6 climate models can only accurately represent aerosol trends over Europe, but struggle with representing North America and Asia. This means that their near-future projections of regional impacts are likely to contain errors as well.

Relationship with water cycle
On regional and global scale, air pollution can affect the water cycle, in a manner similar to some natural processes. One example is the impact of Sahara dust on hurricane formation: air laden with sand and mineral particles moves over the Atlantic Ocean, where they block some of the sunlight from reaching the water surface, slightly cooling it and dampening the development of hurricanes. Likewise, it has been suggested since the early 2000s that since aerosols decrease solar radiation over the ocean and hence reduce evaporation from it, they would be "spinning down the hydrological cycle of the planet."

In 2011, it was found that anthropogenic aerosols had been the predominant factor behind 20th century changes in rainfall over the Atlantic Ocean sector, when the entire tropical rain belt shifted southwards between 1950 and 1985, with a limited northwards shift afterwards. Future reductions in aerosol emissions are expected to result in a more rapid northwards shift, with limited impact in the Atlantic but a substantially greater impact in the Pacific. Some research also suggests that these reductions would affect the AMOC (already expected to weaken due to climate change). Reductions from the stronger air quality policies could exacerbate this expected decline by around 10%, unless methane emissions are reduced by an equivalent amount.

Most notably, multiple studies connect aerosols from the Northern Hemisphere to the failed monsoon in sub-Saharan Africa during the 1970s and 1980s, which then led to the Sahel drought and the associated famine. However, model simulations of Sahel climate are very inconsistent, so it's difficult to prove that the drought would not have occurred without aerosol pollution, although it would have clearly been less severe. Some research indicates that those models which demonstrate warming alone driving strong precipitation increases in the Sahel are the most accurate, making it more likely that sulfate pollution was to blame for overpowering this response and sending the region into drought.

Another dramatic finding had connected the impact of aerosols with the weakening of the Monsoon of South Asia. It was first advanced in 2006, yet it also remained difficult to prove. In particular, some research suggested that warming itself increases the risk of monsoon failure, potentially pushing it past a tipping point. By 2021, however, it was concluded that global warming consistently strengthened the monsoon, and some strengthening was already observed in the aftermath of lockdown-caused aerosol reductions.

In 2009, an analysis of 50 years of data found that light rains had decreased over eastern China, even though there was no significant change in the amount of water held by the atmosphere. This was attributed to aerosols reducing droplet size within clouds, which led to those clouds retaining water for a longer time without raining. The phenomenon of aerosols suppressing rainfall through reducing cloud droplet size has been confirmed by subsequent studies. Later research found that aerosol pollution over South and East Asia didn't just suppress rainfall there, but also resulted in more moisture transferred to Central Asia, where summer rainfall had increased as the result. In the United States, effects of climate change on the water cycle would typically increase both mean and extreme precipitation across the country, but these effects have so far been "masked" by the drying due to historically strong aerosol concentrations. The IPCC Sixth Assessment Report had also linked changes in aerosol concentrations to altered precipitation in the Mediterranean region.

Relevance for solar geoengineering
Global dimming is also a relevant phenomenon for certain proposals about slowing, halting or reversing global warming. An increase in planetary albedo of 1% would eliminate most of radiative forcing from anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions and thereby global warming, while a 2% albedo increase would negate the warming effect of doubling the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration. This is the theory behind solar geoengineering, and the high reflective potential of sulfate aerosols means that they were considered in this capacity starting from the 1970s.

Because the historical levels of global dimming were associated with high mortality from air pollution and issues such as acid rain, the concept of relying on cooling directly from pollution has been described as a "Faustian bargain" and is not seriously considered by modern research. Instead, the seminal 2006 paper by Paul Crutzen suggested that the way to avoid increased warming as the sulfate pollution decreased was to revisit the 1974 proposal by the Soviet researcher Mikhail Budyko. The proposal involved releasing sulfates from the airplanes flying in the upper layers of the atmosphere, in what is now described as stratospheric aerosol injection, or SAI. In comparison, most air pollution is in the lower atmospheric layer (the troposphere), and only resides there for weeks. Because aerosols deposited in the stratosphere would last for years, far less sulfur would have to be emitted to result in the same amount of cooling.

While Crutzen's initial proposal was focused on avoiding the warming caused by the reductions in air pollution, it was immediately understood that scaling up this proposal could slow, stop, or outright reverse warming. It has been estimated that the amount of sulfur needed to offset a warming of around 4 C-change relative to now (and 5 C-change relative to the preindustrial), under the highest-emission scenario RCP 8.5 would be less than what is already emitted through air pollution today, and that reductions in sulfur pollution from future air quality improvements already expected under that scenario would offset the sulfur used for geoengineering. The trade-off is increased cost. Although there's a popular narrative that stratospheric aerosol injection can be carried out by individuals, small states, or other non-state rogue actors, scientific estimates suggest that cooling the atmosphere by 1 C-change through stratospheric aerosol injection would cost at least $18 billion annually (at 2020 USD value), meaning that only the largest economies or economic blocs could afford this intervention. Even so, these approaches would still be "orders of magnitude" cheaper than greenhouse gas mitigation, let alone the costs of unmitigated effects of climate change.

Even if SAI were to stop or outright reverse global warming, weather patterns in many areas would still change substantially. The habitat of mosquitoes and other disease vectors would shift, though it's unclear how it would compare to the shifts that are otherwise likely to occur from climate change. Lower sunlight would affect crop yields and carbon sinks due to reduced photosynthesis, but this would likely be offset by lack of thermal stress from warming and the greater CO2 fertilization effect relative to now. Most importantly, the warming from emissions lasts for hundreds to thousands of years, while the cooling from SAI stops 1–3 years after the last aerosol injection. This means that neither stratospheric aerosol injection nor other forms of solar geoengineering can be used as a substitute for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, because if solar geoengineering were to cease while greenhouse gas levels remained high, it would lead to "large and extremely rapid" warming and similarly abrupt changes to the water cycle. Many thousands of species would likely go extinct as the result. Instead, any solar geoengineering would act as a temporary measure to limit warming while emissions of greenhouse gases are reduced and carbon dioxide is removed, which may well take hundreds of years.

title: Global dimming


text:
Self-pollination

Self-pollination is a form of pollination in which pollen from one plant arrives at the stigma of a flower (in flowering plants) or at the ovule (in gymnosperms) of the same plant. The term cross-pollination is used for the opposite case, where pollen from one plant moves to a different plant.

There are two types of self-pollination: in autogamy, pollen is transferred to the stigma of the same flower; in geitonogamy, pollen is transferred from the anther of one flower to the stigma of another flower on the same flowering plant, or from microsporangium to ovule within a single (monoecious) gymnosperm. Some plants have mechanisms that ensure autogamy, such as flowers that do not open (cleistogamy), or stamens that move to come into contact with the stigma.

The term selfing that is often used as a synonym is not limited to self-pollination, but also applies to other type of self-fertilization.

Occurrence
Few plants self-pollinate without the aid of pollen vectors (such as wind or insects). The mechanism is seen most often in some legumes such as peanuts. In another legume, soybeans, the flowers open and remain receptive to insect cross pollination during the day. If this is not accomplished, the flowers self-pollinate as they are closing. Among other plants that can self-pollinate are many kinds of orchids, peas, sunflowers and tridax. Most of the self-pollinating plants have small, relatively inconspicuous flowers that shed pollen directly onto the stigma, sometimes even before the bud opens. Self-pollinated plants expend less energy in the production of pollinator attractants and can grow in areas where the kinds of insects or other animals that might visit them are absent or very scarce—as in the Arctic or at high elevations.

Self-pollination limits the variety of progeny and may depress plant vigor. However, self-pollination can be advantageous, allowing plants to spread beyond the range of suitable pollinators or produce offspring in areas where pollinator populations have been greatly reduced or are naturally variable.

Pollination can also be accomplished by cross-pollination. Cross-pollination is the transfer of pollen, by wind or animals such as insects and birds, from the anther to the stigma of flowers on separate plants.

Types of self-pollinating flowers
Both hermaphrodite and monoecious species have the potential for self-pollination leading to self-fertilization unless there is a mechanism to avoid it. 80% of all flowering plants are hermaphroditic, meaning they contain both sexes in the same flower, while 5 percent of plant species are monoecious. The remaining 15% would therefore be dioecious (each plant unisexual). Plants that self-pollinate include several types of orchids, and sunflowers. Dandelions are capable of self-pollination as well as cross-pollination.

Advantages
There are several advantages for self-pollinating flowers. Firstly, if a given genotype is well-suited for an environment, self-pollination helps to keep this trait stable in the species. Not being dependent on pollinating agents allows self-pollination to occur when bees and wind are nowhere to be found. Self-pollination or cross pollination can be an advantage when the number of flowers is small or they are widely spaced. During self-pollination, the pollen grains are not transmitted from one flower to another. As a result, there is less wastage of pollen. Also, self-pollinating plants do not depend on external carriers. They also cannot make changes in their characters and so the features of a species can be maintained with purity. Self-pollination also helps to preserve parental characters as the gametes from the same flower are evolved. It is not necessary for flowers to produce nectar, scent, or to be colourful in order to attract pollinators.

Disadvantages
The disadvantages of self-pollination come from a lack of variation that allows no adaptation to the changing environment or potential pathogen attack. Self-pollination can lead to inbreeding depression caused by expression of deleterious recessive mutations, or to the reduced health of the species, due to the breeding of related specimens. This is why many flowers that could potentially self-pollinate have a built-in mechanism to avoid it, or make it second choice at best. Genetic defects in self-pollinating plants cannot be eliminated by genetic recombination and offspring can only avoid inheriting the deleterious attributes through a chance mutation arising in a gamete.

Mixed mating
About 42% of flowering plants exhibit a mixed mating system in nature. In the most common kind of system, individual plants produce a single flower type and fruits may contain self-pollinated, out-crossed or a mixture of progeny types. Another mixed mating system is referred to as dimorphic cleistogamy. In this system a single plant produces both open, potentially out-crossed and closed, obligately self-pollinated cleistogamous flowers.

Example species
The evolutionary shift from outcrossing to self-fertilization is one of the most common evolutionary transitions in plants. About 10-15% of flowering plants are predominantly self-fertilizing. A few well-studied examples of self-pollinating species are described below.

Orchids
Self-pollination in the slipper orchid Paphiopedilum parishii occurs when the anther changes from a solid to a liquid state and directly contacts the stigma surface without the aid of any pollinating agent.

The tree-living orchid Holcoglossum amesianum has a type of self-pollination mechanism in which the bisexual flower turns its anther against gravity through 360° in order to insert pollen into its own stigma cavity—without the aid of any pollinating agent or medium. This type of self-pollination appears to be an adaptation to the windless, drought conditions that are present when flowering occurs, at a time when insects are scarce. Without pollinators for outcrossing, the necessity of ensuring reproductive success appears to outweigh potential adverse effects of inbreeding. Such an adaptation may be widespread among species in similar environments.

Self-pollination in the Madagascan orchid Bulbophyllum bicoloratum occurs by virtue of a rostellum that may have regained its stigmatic function as part of the distal median stigmatic lobe.

Caulokaempferia coenobialis
In the Chinese herb Caulokaempferia coenobialis a film of pollen is transported from the anther (pollen sacs) by an oily emulsion that slides sideways along the flower's style and into the individual's own stigma. The lateral flow of the film of pollen along the style appears to be due solely to the spreading properties of the oily emulsion and not to gravity. This strategy may have evolved to cope with a scarcity of pollinators in the extremely shady and humid habitats of C. coenobialis.

Capsella rubella
Capsella rubella (Red Shepherd's Purse) is a self-pollinating species that became self-compatible 50,000 to 100,000 years ago, indicating that self-pollination is an evolutionary adaptation that can persist over many generations. Its out-crossing progenitor was identified as Capsella grandiflora.

Arabidopsis thaliana
Arabidopsis thaliana is a predominantly self-pollinating plant with an out-crossing rate in the wild estimated at less than 0.3%. A study suggested that self-pollination evolved roughly a million years ago or more.

Possible long-term benefit of meiosis
Meiosis followed by self-pollination produces little overall genetic variation. This raises the question of how meiosis in self-pollinating plants is adaptively maintained over extended periods (i.e. for roughly a million years or more, as in the case of A. thaliana) in preference to a less complicated and less costly asexual ameiotic process for producing progeny. An adaptive benefit of meiosis that may explain its long-term maintenance in self-pollinating plants is efficient recombinational repair of DNA damage. This benefit can be realized at each generation (even when genetic variation is not produced).

title: Self-pollination


text:
Talk:Carl Nielsen

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 * OK, thanks. The website has been updated and I could not find a search box! Perhaps this page will reappear later. --Mirokado (talk) 12:59, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

File:Carl Nielsen c. 1908 - Restoration.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Carl Nielsen c. 1908 - Restoration.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on June 9, 2018. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2018-06-09. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:37, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Inclusion of minimal infobox
I would like us to consider adding to the Carl Nielsen biography article a infobox, consistent with what we did for Jean Sibelius (relevant discussion Talk:Jean Sibelius). Apologies for having acted too rashly by adding the infobox yesterday (you can view it here). I like these minimal inboxes for a few reasons: (1) inclusion of age at death is very helpful; (2) inclusion of signature (which is a nice design touch and a historical artifact in its own right); (3) quick access to the composer's list of compositions page, which I (and I imagine other users) utilize all the time (and which is cumbersome to find in the navbox at the bottom of the page or mid-article ... lots of scrolling); and (4) a minimal infobox avoids the cruft of the longer/detailed one and represents a nice compromise between the two purist schools of thought.

Pinging a few editors who would seem to be interested in this topic:, , , , , , , , , , and. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 00:15, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. It would definitely be a helpful convenience to readers who want to quickly see his dates or the list of his compositions. Songwaters (talk) 00:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support @Silence of Järvenpää I support this. There is little more for me to add that hasn't already been said to support this motion, but I believe the reasoning for adding one is sound. AnyGuy (talk) 00:44, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not. See Signpost report: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box would emphasize unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the information in the box must already be discussed in the body of the article and the Lead section, and likely has also just been seen in a Google Knowledge Graph, the box would be a redundant 3rd (or likely 4th) mention of these facts. (3) The IB's overly bold format would distract readers and discourage them from reading the text of the article. (4) Updates are often made to articles but not reflected in the box (or vice versa), and vandalism frequently creeps in that is hard to detect because of the lack of referencing in the box. (5) Boxes in liberal arts biographies like this attract fancruft and repeated arguments among editors about what to include. (6) IBs in arts bios distract editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. The reasons listed by Silence of Järvenpää are compelling: in particular, an immediately obvious link to List of compositions by Carl Nielsen is undoubtedly a useful asset for readers, and an image of Nielsen's signature is an interesting feature that wouldn't be a natural fit for a different location in the article. Additionally, I disagree with the premise that infoboxes distract readers who would otherwise read the article prose. In the majority of cases, a reader who seeks quick facts will only ever skim the article if they can't find the information they seek in an infobox, while a reader who's interested in learning about Nielsen more thoroughly will read the prose regardless of whether an infobox is present or not. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 03:14, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, per nom. Ssilvers, please look at your standard oppose list and strike what is not relevant for the suggested minimal infobox for this particular article. The infobox is redundant to the lead by design, - it is just aimed at different readers, and in the over ten years of talking about this subject, I have not understood why we can't serve both interests, at a glance and in context (which may be the same person, just needing a different bit of information at a different time). In the Sibelius discussion mentioned above I asked how many RfCs we need to call the infobox wars over. They have taken their toll, in wasted time and - worse - editor relations. We had Tchaikovsky, recently. I'd like to see the minimal infobox, as in Percy Grainger, as an acceptable compromise. Imagine: we could write articles instead. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Gerda, your argument is the same as when a man tells a woman, "I will only put it in a little." -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:27, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Oppose per Ssilvers and for the following explicit reasons: the proposed infobox contains no useful information that is not in the opening sentences of the lead and, so far from being "minimal", contains  the entirely irrelevant signature of the composer; the circumstnaces in which the signature might be needed 'speedily' by a WP user are inconceivable. Infoboxes in general are today made redundant by the fact that entering a searh for a name on Google or Bing automatically brings up dates and places of birth and death etc., which they take automatically from Wikipedia texts - it's not even necessary to enter Wikipedia to get this info. Try it yourselves now with 'Carl Nielsen'. The entire Infobox argument is based on the history and the nature of the internet of five or six years ago - wake up!! --Smerus (talk) 10:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Support: Already quite awake, thank you. Your point about redundancy, however, makes me think that perhaps your eyes are closed. Show me where in the lede for Nielsen (or Sibelius) it tells the reader the age at which the composer died, the location of his birth, or the location of his death. Answer: It doesn't. And these three details are not "fancruft", but rather are key basic, orienting details of the composer's biography. Deliciously, the related point about Google and other search engines providing "knowledge boxes" actually  your position, in that their usage shows how, cognitively, an interface is that provides at-a-glance details for a user to consume with minimal effort, i.e., an infobox. Finally, it's a heroic assumption that readers arrive at an article from Google (or another search engine) ... sure many do, but plenty don't (especially if they're already in Wikipedia and clicking around/moving from article to article), and so won't be exposed to the Google knowledge box. Try it yourselves now with 'Carl Nielsen'. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 13:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support: Great way to summarize manner, age, and location of death, location of birth. list of compositions. A minimal infobox with these, plus a signature is perfect imo. Signature shows some of the person's style, and this I findd uniquely valuable as there are few other applicable places to put it in the article. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 12:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support: There is no downside to including infoboxes for people who find them valuable. People who do not find them valuable are free not to look at them. PianoDan (talk) 16:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Okay, well ... given the comments/informal vote, as well as the fact that this page hasn't been edited in over two weeks, I am going to restore the minimal inforbox on the Carl Nielsen bio. By submitting this question to the Talk page, I believe I have fulfilled the request of the editor who reverted. Thanks. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

"susceptible to opportunities with other ladies"
Surely there's a more neutral, less nudge-nudge-wink-wink way to say that Nielsen had sexual relations with women besides his wife? I'm not conversant enough with the details to propose a wording (or a source), but someone else must be.  · rodii ·  20:02, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

 * Done. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wonder why we need to include such details at all. How are the affairs notable? Did they produce illegitimate children? Inform or inspire his art? Ruin his reputation and result in his exclusion from society? Cause a divorce from his wife? If not, then such details come off as the 19th/20th-century equivalent of intrusive tabloid gossip. And, of course, given moral standards, they're intrinsically (even if inadvertently) judgmental. A personal opinion, and one that I recognize is probably in the minority. But I'll voice it, nonetheless. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 23:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * CORRECTION: Actually, I see now that Nielsen had a few illegitimate children, so my own question is answered. But, I think, the larger point I'm trying to make still stands: there is a reflective tendency to include these kinds of details in articles, even if they're not notable. I suppose with Nielsen, the notability is established. Apologies for the mix-up on this specific case! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 23:08, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the edit!  · rodii ·  16:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Carl Nielsen