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Nissan Pathfinder

The Nissan Pathfinder is a range of sport utility vehicles manufactured by Nissan since 1986. Until the third-generation model, the Pathfinder is based on Nissan's compact pickup truck platform which it shares with the Navara/Frontier. The front end of the D21 (first generation) and R51 (third generation) Pathfinder is notably identical with the Navara/Frontier up until the B-pillars.

The Pathfinder was marketed as the Nissan Terrano (日産・テラノ) outside North America. Beginning in 2004, the R51 series was marketed internationally as the Pathfinder.

In 2012, the R52 series Pathfinder was released as a three-row crossover SUV based on the unibody Nissan D platform, moving away from the body-on-frame chassis format. The role of a mid-size body-on-frame SUV in Nissan's global lineup was passed to the Terra/X-Terra, which was released in 2018 and based on the D23 series Navara.

First generation (YD21/WD21; 1986)
The first generation Pathfinder was unveiled in December 1985 and was later introduced in May 1986 as a two-door body-on-frame SUV, for the 1987 model year in the United States. It shared styling and most components with the Nissan Hardbody Truck. Built on a ladder-type frame, the Pathfinder was Nissan's response to the Chevrolet Blazer, Ford Bronco II, Jeep Cherokee, and non-American SUVs like the Toyota 4Runner, Honda Passport, and the Isuzu MU.

Before the Pathfinder there was the Nissan Bushmaster (an aftermarket conversion of the Datsun Truck). Its optional 4WD system that could be engaged electronically while the vehicle was moving was unique at the time. All YD21 Pathfinders were available in both 2WD and manually engaged 4WD configurations, with base models installed with a 2.4 L four-cylinder engine. In certain countries, this generation also came with a 2.7-liter I4 diesel engine known as the TD27 with the option of a turbocharger installed later in November 1988.

In Japan, it was exclusive to Nissan Shop locations, where it was called the Terrano and served as a smaller companion to the larger Nissan Safari. While the Pathfinder/Terrano was essentially based on the newly introduced Hardbody truck, the rear five-link coil suspension was borrowed from the Safari to enhance its off-road abilities. In addition to the Station Wagon version (two or late four doors), the home market also received a version intended for commercial use called the "Estate Van" (chassis codes beginning with the letter "V"). The two-door version was available with the Nissan VG30i V6, which produces 140 PS at 4800 rpm in Japanese market specifications.

As the Japanese market Terrano was regarded as a luxury vehicle, with an emphasis on outdoor leisure activities, the Terrano was introduced to Japanese buyers as an off-road, back-country Fairlady ZX. To emphasize this marketing approach, the Terrano was available with options not normally found on other budget-minded vehicles. Some of the upmarket Japanese-model options were climate-controlled air conditioning, electrically powered windows, seats, door locks, and, in 1993, Recaro seats. Nissan's sports division Autech added special equipment packages, introducing the "Wide R3M Urban" and the "AJ Limited". The "Wide" models used overfenders and larger bumpers which made their exterior dimensions exceed dimension regulations, thus incurring a higher annual road tax obligation. The Wide models were given the leading letter "L" in their model codes. The emphasis on luxury was partly due to a strong economy in Japan, in what is now regarded as the Japanese "bubble economy".

In 1985, the first generation Terrano was entered in the ninth Paris to Dakar rally race, with continued entries in rally races for many years, winning multiple times in its category.

The four-door Pathfinder was introduced in October 1989 to enhance the Pathfinder's market appeal, but the wheelbase and overall vehicle length were not extended to accommodate the rear doors. At its introduction to North America, 1985 to 1989 Pathfinders all came with a two-door body. For 1990 it became four door-only, although a small number of US 1990 Pathfinders came with the two-door body.

When the four-door version was introduced, Nissan chose to conceal the door handles as a part of the "C" pillar trim to make it appear like a two-door truck with a camper shell, with the conventional door handles on the front doors. This design tradition was used on all Nissan SUVs, including the Nissan Armada, Nissan Juke, Nissan Terrano II, and the Nissan Xterra. The front doors were slightly shortened to accommodate the rear doors.

From 1987 to 1989 Pathfinders were available with either the Nissan VG30i 3.0 L V6 (143 hp, 162 lbft torque), or the Nissan Z24i 2.4 L (106 hp) I4 (the same engine choices as the Nissan Hardbody Truck). For 1990, the V6 received an upgrade from throttle body injection to a multi point fuel injection system. This engine was known as the VG30E, and was rated at 153 hp and 180 lbft torque. Also in 1990, the Z24i was replaced with the KA24E. The first generation continued until 1995.

The first generation Nissan Pathfinder also sold in Indonesia from 1995 to 2006 as Nissan Terrano. Only available with four-door body, 2389 cc Z24 carburetted petrol engine (103 hp & 182Nm), 2WD (4WD only available for 1995-1996 highest trim model ) and 5-speed manual transmission. Only 17,801 units were sold during 11 years of production.

Facelifts
A facelift occurred in 1990 when the 4-door model was introduced. The front grille was revised, numerous interior trim level options became available and numerous exterior packages were offered by dealerships. The 1993 models received a third brake light and the 1994 models received a curved dashboard. Two more facelifts occurred for Indonesian production Terrano in 1997 and 2003.

Second generation (R50; 1995)
The second generation Pathfinder was introduced in late 1995 with revised styling. The engine was upgraded to the VG33E, with 168 hp and 196 lbft torque. For the 1999$1/2$ model year, the Pathfinder was freshened. In 2000, model year 2001 brought a new 240 hp V6 engine (for the automatic transmission models). The manual transmission models boasted 250 hp and 240-lbft of torque. This engine was the VQ35DE. The 4-cylinder engine option was no longer available, and diesel engines continued to be used in Japanese and European models.

As of the 2002 model year, the Terrano / Pathfinder was no longer marketed in Japan, and was available in North America, Europe and the Middle East. The market position held by the Terrano in Japan was replaced by the Nissan Murano in 2002. The Japanese market Terrano and high luxury content Terrano Regulus saw demand drop significantly due to the hard economic times felt in Japan, known as the Lost Decade. Nissan offered a smaller, off-road vehicle to its Japanese customer base who enjoyed the Pathfinder when it introduced the Nissan X-Trail in 2000.

Facelifts
The Pathfinder received a facelift for the 1999.5 model year with a revised front fascia, rear fascia, and interior — followed by another facelift occurred in 2002, receiving the updated Nissan logo, a revised grille, as well as a new steering wheel, different rims and radio display. In 2003, the Pathfinder again received a new steering wheel.

Infiniti QX4/Terrano Regulus
The Infiniti QX4 is a mid-size luxury SUV introduced in September 1996 and based on the Nissan Pathfinder. It was released following Acura's introduction of the SLX and Lexus's larger LX 450. The QX4 was Infiniti's first entry into the SUV market segment.

It was available in Japan as the Nissan Terrano Regulus and exclusive at Nissan's JDM Nissan Store. Major differences between these vehicles and the regular Pathfinder/Terrano include a more upscale interior and unique styling. Marketed as a luxury vehicle, The Terrano Regulus offered off-road capability with a low-range four-wheel-drive system and 8.3 in of ground clearance. In Japan, two four-cylinder diesel engines were also available. The US-market engine was the same 3.3-liter V6 unit as used in the Pathfinder, producing 168 hp at 4,800 rpm and 196 lbft at 4,800 rpm. This was generally considered underpowered for the segment, with a 0–60 mph time of 12.4 seconds in period testing. In 1999, the Terrano was exclusive to reorganized Nissan JDM Nissan Blue Stage dealerships.

Year-to-year changes
The Terrano Regulus was updated in February 1999. The interior design was revised, while the old QD32ETi overhead valve turbodiesel was replaced with the new DOHC, 16-valve ZD30DDTi unit. The VG33E engine continued unchanged, but with the added option of two-wheel-drive.

The QX4 received its first major update in March 2000, as an early introduction for model year 2001. The biggest change was the new VQ series V6 engine (also later seen in the G35 and FX35), increasing its power from a relatively low 168 to 240 hp. The displacement went from 3.3 L to 3.5 L. The timing belt was replaced with a timing chain and the ignition distributor was replaced with an individual coil ignition system. The revised version was introduced at the same price as the earlier model, in spite of the extra power and other improvements.

This facelift also gave the QX4 an updated exterior and interior body style, including a new grille and bumpers, reworked Xenon HID headlamps and redesigned taillights, a new dash with integrated analog clock, and 17 in alloy wheels. Also, a rear-wheel drive QX4 model was added (1997 through 2000 were only available in 4WD).

The Terrano Regulus continued to use the VG33E engine (and the 3-liter turbodiesel inline-four), although the short-lived V6 2WD option was discontinued again in September 2001, along with some minor changes.

2002 Infiniti QX: Cruise control designed to maintain a set distance from other traffic was the main addition for 2002. The QX4 shared Nissan's Intelligent Cruise Control with Infiniti's flagship Q45 sedan. Employing laser sensors, the system was designed to automatically speed or slow the QX4 to keep it a constant distance from cars ahead. Also new for 2002 was a revised audio system, plus audio controls for the available leather/wood steering wheel. The optional rear-seat video entertainment system offered a choice of VCR or DVD player. The Japanese-market Terrano Regulus was discontinued in August 2002.

2003 Infiniti QX: Additional standard equipment for 2003 included curtain-type side airbags, available for the first time. New standard equipment that had previously been part of the Premium Package included 17-inch wheels, a driver-seat memory system, and a leather/woodgrain steering wheel with audio controls. Options included heated front/rear seats and a videotape or DVD rear-seat entertainment system. A power moonroof that came standard.

The QX4 was discontinued in 2003, and its position in price was taken by the FX35/45 crossover SUV. The last QX4 was manufactured during November 2002. The QX4 was succeeded by the larger QX56 in 2004.

Third generation (R51; 2004)
In August 2003, Nissan unveiled Dunehawk Concept and showcased it at the IAA 2003 in Frankfurt (R51 design patents filed 8 September 2003), previewing the next Pathfinder's design. At the 2004 North American International Auto Show, Nissan unveiled a completely redesigned Pathfinder for the 2005 model year. The new R51 Pathfinder uses the Nissan F-Alpha platform. It is powered by a 4.0 L V6 engine VQ40DE (266 hp, 288 lbft) or a 2.5 L YD25DDT (126 kW, 403 Nm) turbodiesel.

The larger Pathfinder Armada debuted in late 2003, but was based on the Titan full-sized pickup truck and dropped the "Pathfinder" prefix in 2005.

The 2005 model introduced a third row of seats to the Pathfinder line for the first time.

2008 facelift (US and Middle East)
The facelifted 2008 Pathfinder debuted at the 2007 Chicago Auto Show. Some of the badge positions on the rear liftgate were tweaked, and this version also received the Titan's 5.6-liter V8 engine rated at 310 hp and 388 lbft.

2010 facelift (Europe, South America, Asia/Oceania, Caribbean)
An updated version debuted at the Geneva Motor Show in 2010, now available with the Nissan V9X Engine 3.0-litre V6 turbodiesel producing 170 kW and 550 Nm at 1,750 – 2,500 rpm while the upgraded YD25DDTi turbodiesel also available produces 140 kW – up 14 kW – while torque increased by 47 Nm to 450 Nm. Over the combined cycle manual versions use 8.4 L/100 km – an improvement of 1.4 L/100 km – while emissions have fallen by 40g/km to 224 g/km. Both figures were class competitive at the time. A version of the engine with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) was also available in certain markets.

The R51 series Pathfinder continues to be sold and produced outside North America.

Exterior changes
The revised models have been given a new look front and rear to differentiate them from their predecessors. Changes at the front include a new bonnet, revised grille and a new bumper assembly. Adding 80 mm to the length of both models, the bumper is more rounded and lends a more sporting touch to the cars.

A new headlamp design with projectors is offered for Xenon lamps. Headlamps washers now pop up from beneath body color moulding in the bumpers. A new 18 in alloy wheel complements the existing range of 16-inch (steel and alloy) and 17-inch (alloy) designs. V8 models are given a discreet V8 badge at the leading edge of both front doors and a new side moulding across the doors.

Fourth generation (R52; 2012)
A redesigned Pathfinder went on sale in late October 2012 as a 2013 model. It moved away from a body-on-frame, truck-based SUV and adopted a unibody design. It rides on the same platform as the Infiniti QX60, Altima, Maxima, Murano and Quest. This generation Pathfinder has an interior similar to the second generation Murano, the Infiniti QX60, and some more SUVs and sedans. The third row has more leg room than the Nissan Rogue.

A concept, nearly identical to the eventual production model, was first revealed at the 2012 North American International Auto Show. Retail availability was scheduled for September 2012. The new Pathfinder is only available with a VQ35DE 3.5-liter V6 engine producing 260 hp and 240 lbft of torque. City, highway and combined average fuel economy numbers are 20 (City), 26 (Highway) and 22 (Combined) mpg for the FWD version and 19 (City), 25 (Highway) and 21 (Combined) mpg for the 4WD version. The Pathfinder is now significantly lighter than the previous generation, with the FWD model weighing 4149 pounds, while the 4WD Pathfinder weighs 4290 pounds.

This generation also abandons having the rear door handles hidden on the C pillar, a design feature of the first three generations of Pathfinders. As of 2015, the R52 series is only available in North America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, and the Middle East. It is not produced or sold in Japan.

2014 model year update
Changes to the US 2014 model include:
 * New SL Tech Package, featuring Bose Premium Audio System, Nissan Navigation System, voice recognition, XM NavTraffic and NavWeather capability (SiriusXM subscription required, sold separately), Zagat Restaurant Survey, Bluetooth Streaming Audio and 8.0-inch color touchscreen monitor
 * Offered in four models: S, SV, SL and Platinum (each available in 4WD and 2WD); Pathfinder Hybrid offered in SV, SL and Platinum (4WD and 2WD)
 * 3.5-liter V6 models available late summer 2013
 * Pathfinder Hybrid available fall 2013
 * Pathfinder utilizes a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) transmission made by Jatco; early versions of this CVT have proved to be problematic to the point of requiring replacement by Nissan in some 2013 and 2014 model years due to a hydraulic line size issue.

Canadian models of 2014 Pathfinder includes Pathfinder 3.5-litre 4WD V6 X, Pathfinder V6 S; 2014 Pathfinder Hybrid includes SV and Platinum Premium.

A locally built Pathfinder entered the Russian market in November 2014.

Pathfinder Hybrid
Introduced for model year 2014, the Pathfinder Hybrid, available in two-wheel drive and four-wheel drive configurations, uses a supercharged 2.5-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine and an electric motor paired to a compact lithium-ion battery. The Li-ion battery fits under the third row seat, with no effect on space used for cargo or passengers. The Pathfinder Hybrid also has hybrid emblems and hybrid LED taillights versus the non-hybrid model.

Nissan discontinued the Pathfinder Hybrid after the 2014 model year due to owner reviews and complaints that they could not get gas milage that was anywhere close to the advertised 25 to 28 mpg and limited availability and poor sales in the United States (discontinued after the 2015 model year in Canada and in other global markets except Australia and New Zealand).

2017 facelift
For model year 2017, the Nissan Pathfinder received an exterior update which includes a new fascia with restyled headlights and tail lights and a new direct-injected V6 engine with CVT—outputting 284 hp and 259 lbft. The headlights had LED projector low beam headlamps and LED daytime running lights standard on Platinum trim levels, while S, SV and SL trim levels offer restyled halogen projector headlights with LED daytime running lights. Restyled tail lights will be standard on Platinum trim levels, and all 2017 Pathfinders will also have new exterior colors added. The interior also has redesigned cup holders. A Motion Activated Liftgate is also now standard on SL and Platinum trim levels only as part of the power liftgate. The 2017 model year is also its 30th anniversary for the Nissan Pathfinder but there won't be any 30th anniversary special edition model for the 2017 Pathfinder. But the Nissan Pathfinder will have a Midnight Edition trim level which will be higher than the Platinum trim level for its base MSRP and arrive in early 2017 and the Nissan Altima, Sentra, Murano, Maxima and Rogue will also add the Midnight Edition trim level to their trim lineups in early 2017.

2019 update
The Rock Creek Edition package is introduced to the Nissan Pathfinder for the 2019 model year. The appearance package is only available on the SV and SL trim levels. The package adds 18" X 7.5" dark-finished aluminum alloy wheels, black overfenders and black door handles, Rock Creek Edition badging, leatherette-appointed seating with cloth inserts and Rock Creek Edition badging (SV trim level), leather appointed seating with Rock Creek Edition badging (SL trim level), and premium Rock Creek Edition interior trim. It was manufactured until June 2020.

Global version (2021)
The fifth-generation Pathfinder was unveiled on 4 February 2021, scheduled for a summer 2021 debut as a 2022 model while the 2021 model year was entirely skipped. The model remains a unibody crossover, riding on the same platform as the previous generation, though it gains a more squared-off look with styling cues from previous Pathfinders along with the Rogue and Armada. Its dimensions are 1.5 in longer, 0.6 in wider, and 0.5 in taller. Engine power remains the same, at 284 hp and 259 lbft of torque, though the CVT is replaced with an all-new 9-speed automatic from ZF. The fifth-generation Pathfinder also receives a new terrain-management system, dubbed Intelligent 4x4, featuring 7 management settings. Trailer sway control is also included as standard, in addition to Safety Shield 360, Nissan's active safety suite.

The interior also receives a redesign, featuring a squared-off, trucklike appearance mirroring the overall theme set by the exterior. The new interior also gains the "floating bridge" and electronic shifter seen in the smaller Rogue. An 8-inch touchscreen infotainment with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto is standard, while upper trims use a 9.0-inch unit, with wireless Apple CarPlay capability. The top-spec Platinum model gains a 12.3-inch digital gauge cluster and a 10.8-inch heads-up display in addition to the 9.0-inch screen. The fifth-generation Pathfinder comes standard as an 8-seater, with second-row bucket seats, a first for the Pathfinder, are now on offer. The S and SV trim levels get cloth seat trim as standard, with leather-appointed seating standard on the SL trim level; the Platinum trim level gets quilted, semi-aniline leather-appointed seating.

In 2022, for the 2023 model year, the new Rock Creek Edition is available with black wheels, and off-road suspension and a new Baja Storm exterior color is also available and the wireless smartphone charging pad is now standard on the SL grade while the Platinum trim level comes standard with second-row bucket seats.

Chinese version (2023)
A concept version of the Pathfinder was unveiled at the 2023 Auto Shanghai show, visually different from the North American version. The production model was released in November 2023 at the Auto Guangzhou. Based on the US-made Pathfinder, the Chinese market Pathfinder is powered by a 2.0-litre KR20DDET turbocharged engine.

title: Nissan Pathfinder


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Kevyn Adams

Kevyn William Adams (born October 8, 1974) is an American former professional ice hockey center and current general manager of the Buffalo Sabres of the National Hockey League. During his career, Adams played for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Columbus Blue Jackets, Florida Panthers, Carolina Hurricanes, Phoenix Coyotes and the Chicago Blackhawks, and was also a former associate coach for the Sabres.

Playing career
Adams grew up in Clarence, New York and played his youth hockey for the Wheatfield Blades organization at a rink then known as Sabreland, where the Buffalo Sabres used to practice. Adams played collegiately for Miami University and was drafted in the 1st round, 25th overall by the Boston Bruins in the 1993 NHL Entry Draft. Adams has also played for the Florida Panthers, Columbus Blue Jackets, and Toronto Maple Leafs. His best season was 2000–01 when he had 29 points. The Carolina Hurricanes acquired Adams, Bret Hedican, and Tomas Malec on January 16, 2002 from the Panthers for Sandis Ozolinsh and Byron Ritchie. During the NHL lockout season in 2004–05, Adams played a short stint for the DEG Metro Stars in Düsseldorf, Germany. With the return of the NHL in 2005–06, he returned to Carolina, where he was an alternate captain on the Hurricanes Stanley Cup winning team that season. On January 8, 2007, he was traded to the Phoenix Coyotes for Dennis Seidenberg. On August 11, 2007, Adams was traded to the Chicago Blackhawks for Radim Vrbata. On October 7, 2008, Adams was released from the Blackhawks. On January 6, 2009, Adams retired to become a player-agent.

Coaching and management career
On August 3, 2011, Adams was named Assistant Coach of the Buffalo Sabres. He was fired on May 9, 2013, two days after the Sabres named Ron Rolston as their new head coach. Adams was named the Senior Vice President of Business Administration for the Sabres in 2019. On June 16, 2020, he was named the team's general manager, replacing the recently-fired Jason Botterill.

On March 25, 2021, Adams filled in as head coach of the Sabres when head coach Don Granato and assistant coach Matt Ellis entered the NHL's COVID protocol. The Sabres lost the game, 4-0, against the Pittsburgh Penguins, extending the Sabres winless streak to sixteen games.

Personal life
Adams was the second player in NHL history, after Bill Nyrop, to be born in the District of Columbia. Despite being born in the D.C. area, Adams grew up in Clarence, New York, and keeps a second home in Bemus Point, New York. He was inducted into the Miami University Athletics Hall of Fame in 2011.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Kevyn Adams


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Talk:Paris Hilton

Troubled Teen Industry
In the sections titled "Early life" and "This Is Paris (2020–present)," will you please add the other schools Paris attended before Provo Canyon School?

In the film This Is Paris, Hilton talks about her experiences in four different “troubled teen” industry programs: Ascent Wilderness Program in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, Cascade School in Whitmore, California, CEDU School in Running Springs, California, and Provo Canyon School in Provo, Utah.

They are listed in the order she attended them. Thank you.
 * Are we your servants? You can add them. Planetjanet (talk) 03:28, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Abortion Confession (Tell All Book)
Missing from personal life, per her tell-all:

https://time.com/6260573/paris-hilton-abortion-story-book/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2023/03/14/paris-the-memoir-revelations-paris-hilton/11424760002/

https://www.insider.com/paris-hilton-says-she-had-abortion-at-22-memoir-excerpt-2023-3?amp

https://people.com/health/paris-hilton-had-abortion-early-20s/ 2603:7000:3600:C1A9:D55:C37A:9C2D:E1E4 (talk) 07:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

in popular culture
The character "Dakota" from the TV show Total Drama: Revenge of the Island was based off Paris Hilton. 174.168.61.76 (talk) 18:27, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Why does this page read like it's written by her publicistt
Giant wikifail Mrmackdaddybigbone (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Paris Hilton


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Talk:King Giddra

Untitled
Does "tight" mean something here I'm not getting? moink 21:07, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Only 2?
So there are only two members? I thought there were more...

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User talk:FakePlant

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some useful links in case you haven't already found them; *How to edit a page *How to write a great article *Naming conventions *Manual of Style If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Alexandros 21:07, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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David Aebischer

David Aebischer (born February 7, 1978) is a Swiss former professional ice hockey goaltender who played in the National Hockey League with the Colorado Avalanche, Montreal Canadiens and the Phoenix Coyotes. He was a member of the 2001 Stanley Cup champion Avalanche team, becoming the first Swiss native to achieve the feat. Aebischer also played several seasons in his native Switzerland with HC Fribourg-Gottéron, HC Lugano and the Rapperswil-Jona Lakers of the National League (NL).

Aebischer is currently a goalie coach for HC Fribourg-Gottéron.

Playing career
As a youth, Aebischer played in the 1992 Quebec International Pee-Wee Hockey Tournament with a team from Switzerland.

Aebischer was drafted 161st overall by the Colorado Avalanche in the 1997 NHL Entry Draft. He moved to North America in 1997 and spent the 1997–98 season in the ECHL, first with the Chesapeake Icebreakers and then with the Wheeling Nailers. He spent the next two seasons with Colorado's American Hockey League (AHL) affiliate, the Hershey Bears, with whom he compiled a 46-33-7 record. When the Avalanche traded backup goaltender Marc Denis to the Columbus Blue Jackets in the summer of 2000, Aebischer became the full-time backup to starting goaltender Patrick Roy.

Aebischer played 26 games during his rookie season with Colorado. Aebischer made his NHL debut, and first NHL start on October 18, 2000 against the Columbus Blue Jackets in Columbus for his first NHL victory. On October 26, 2000 in his second career start, Aebischer shut out the Chicago Blackhawks in Chicago for his first NHL career shutout. The year would prove a successful one, as Roy backstopped the Avalanche to their second Stanley Cup championship, defeating the New Jersey Devils in a seven-game final series. With the win, Aebischer became the first Swiss hockey player to win the Stanley Cup.

Following two more seasons as the Avalanche backup, Aebischer became Colorado's starting goaltender following Roy's retirement in the summer of 2003. He played 62 games and posted 32 wins during the 2003–04 season. That season, he started his first career playoff game for the Avalanche and led Colorado to the second round, where they lost to the San Jose Sharks in six games. The following season, due to the NHL lockout, Aebischer returned to Switzerland and played for HC Lugano in the Nationalliga A.

Aebischer returned to the Avalanche for the 2005–06 season. He was unable to duplicate his pre-lockout form and his inconsistent play led to his being traded to the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for goaltender José Théodore on March 8, 2006, a day before the NHL trade deadline.

That summer, Montreal re-signed him to a one-year deal worth $1.9 million. He served as Cristobal Huet's backup for the 2006–07 season and posted a 13–12–3 record. The Canadiens failed to make the playoffs and Montreal opted not to re-sign Aebischer.

On July 19, 2007, Aebischer signed a one-year, $600,000 contract with the Phoenix Coyotes. However, he lost the goaltending battle in training camp to Alex Auld and Mikael Tellqvist, and was waived. He went unclaimed and was subsequently assigned to the Coyotes AHL affiliate, the San Antonio Rampage. On November 23, 2007, Aebischer was loaned to HC Lugano to make room on the San Antonio roster for goaltender Alex Auld.

In August, 2011, after four seasons back in his native Switzerland, Aebischer was invited to the training camp of the Winnipeg Jets for the 2011–12 season on a tryout contract. On October 5, 2011, it was announced that Aebischer would play with the Jets' AHL affiliate, the St. John's IceCaps.

On July 1, 2012, Aebischer again left North America and signed a one-year contract with the Rapperswil-Jona Lakers of the National League A.

In the 2014–15 season, Aebischer played five games with HC Thurgau of the National League B before announcing his retirement from his playing career to focus for a coaching role on January 25, 2015.

International play
Aebischer has represented Switzerland internationally on many occasions. His first international experience came in the 1997 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships, hosted by Switzerland. The Swiss finished in 7th place. Aebischer returned as Switzerland's starting goaltender the following year at the 1998 World Juniors and led the team past the quarterfinal round and to a bronze medal finish, defeating the heavily favoured Czech Republic in the bronze medal match. Aebischer has also appeared for Switzerland in five IIHF World Championships and two Winter Olympic Games.

title: David Aebischer


text:
User talk:Spikey

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some useful links in case you haven't already found them:

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Dori | Talk 21:09, Dec 6, 2003 (UTC)

The Magician
See my Q on Talk:The Magician card. :) - UtherSRG 01:16, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject:Highways
Hey there...If you're really serious about doing something with that project, I may be able to assist you in the project, so you can probably slap me down as one of the participants...just give me somethin' to do. thanks. Ilyanep 02:58, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Your OMA membership
Hello Spikey, and welcome to the Office of Members' Advocates. As the de-facto interim coordinator I've added a link to your talk page on the talk page of the association; if you want to add any more contact information that you feel comfortable with please do so. I've started writing a few other pages and if you want to contribute to any of those pages or do some more editing that would be great. Once we have a few more members we might try to have a membership meeting to discuss how we might act as a group or help each other with our new-found volunteer role. [[User:Alex756|— Alex756 talk]] 04:15, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I've added my contact info and formatted the list a bit; I think it's easier to read this way.  --Spikey 20:00, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Strom quotes
I had hoped that we had come to some sort of consensus (or at least truce) at the white supremacist article. So I'm wondering why you feel that the quote (and one opposing it) is necessary for the article? I won't repeat it here, but there are deeper reasons behind its original inclusion in the article, referred to here: Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment. Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 22:01, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't mind the quote's presence with proper attribution and context. Taking this to the talk page ... - David Gerard 22:30, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)

AMA Election
Spikey, I've taken the liberty of adding links at Announcements and Goings-on that the Association of Members' Advocates is searching for a Coordinator and I have started a new page dealing with the election. See: AMA Coordinator Election. You editing, comments and participation as an AMA member would be appreciated. [[User:Alex756|— Alex756 talk]] 20:34, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

AMA co-ordinator election is now on
You may now vote for user:Ed_Poor or user:Alex756 in the first ever AMA co-ordinator election. Follow the instructions on AMA Coordinator Election Procedure for more details.

AMA members who wish to abstain from voting must also e-mail wikipedia_ama_voting@yahoo.co.uk with notice of that intent.

To clarify anything before voting, ask user_talk:Zanimum or user_talk:Jwrosenzweig on their talk pages.

AMA members have until April 30, at 11:00:00 EST to vote. -- user:zanimum

Edit summary on diff page
Thank you for your feature suggestion. I coded it and Tim kindly uploaded it to the test wiki if you want to see it before it goes live in 1.3. Angela. 08:22, Apr 17, 2004 (UTC)

Peer Review Please
Hi, I don't know if you saw my post the other week at Manual of Style : Talk page; could I ask if you could please review the article that John & Wik keep reverting over at Papua (Indonesian province) : Page history -- My version speaks for itself; different maps, more content, and honest facts not twisted racist non-sense. THeir version paints Papuans as dumb blackmen lead around by a Reverend with a sing-song (please compare that paragraph to mine). Their version also removes the vital links to the US State Dept. document & the letter from JFK, without which US readers may have difficultly understanding why their government did what it did at that time.

Also they keep reverting over West Papuan Genocide - a perfectly good article that they apparently hate because the Yale University uses the term West Papua which they have expunged from their version at Human rights violations in western New Guinea. I'm hoping some peer review may stop Wik and friend.

They accuse me of POV, which I feel their article is loaded with where-as my article avoids any POV by simply listing known facts and allowing readers to form their own thoughts. Even Tannin explained that to them but it goes in one ear & out the other apparantly. Also English language users can really only search the Internet for the country title "West Papua", as Papua would only return PNG & New Guinea pages. The current Indonesian name of the region is actually Propinsi Papua. The name issue is discussed on the talk page for a waste of time, and the meaning of Papua is even in dictionaries, sometimes even West Papua is. I just wanted to update my West Papua article to the new Wikipdia standard, not spend my life fighting racist trolls.Daeron 15:12, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Request for AMA assistance
We have received an anonymous request for AMA assistance from an IP address, I have directed that individual to contact me if they wish not to create a Wikipedia account. If you are interested in helping please let me know and if I hear from this individual I will try and put you in contact. See AMA Requests for Assistance. Thank you. — ©   Alex756   03:14, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

E-Prime
Re your comment at PNA - E-Prime doesn't seem confusing to me, and I've never heard of it before. ··gracefool 13:15, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * It's changed a lot since then: . Just goes to show you that PNA works!  I've taken it off the page.  --Spikey 14:05, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah, good job :) ··gracefool |☺ 13:48, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

My Southern California freeways project
I'm planning on starting a PhD at UCLA, USC, or UC Irvine next fall in city planning, with a focus on transportation. I'm particularly fascinated with the freeway system in Southern California (not necessarily in love with it, just interested) and have found that the existing Interstate and California State Highway pages don't really do justice to the system. Freeway by freeway, I'm trying to build a network of pages with a fairly standardized form.

Check out some of my work here: Southern California freeways. Do you like my format and style? Any suggestions? I'd like to add pictures/maps at some point.

 * Er...where? The link's broken.  --Spikey 16:41, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, I'll be damned. I didn't realize that you can't direct-link category pages.  This may be problematic.  Try Santa Monica Freeway or Antelope Valley Freeway instead (as examples, I've done something like 20 now). --Slightlyslack 07:41, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Ah, I think you meant Category:Southern California freeways. They're good!  Thanks for doing all this work.  What I'd really like to work on is a standard freeway diagram for all major roadway articles with helpful links to intersecting roads and other locations, so that one can take a "virtual tour" of the country (or any part of it).  --Spikey 03:51, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

Proposals for AMA Membership Meeting
As AMA Coordinator I am requesting that suggestions be placed on AMA Membership Meeting plans for our first membership meeting, to be held in the near future, (hopefully before any election occurs.) Since we have never had any kind of "official" meeting we need to discuss how this will occur (i.e. Wiki pages or IRC channel), how it will be structured (i.e. meeting agenda) and if there will be any "chair" to supervise the meeting and meeting "secretary" to write up minutes or keep some kind of official record of what transpires. Thanks in advance for your input and your continued work as an advocate. Also, I don't think your name is on the main list of members, please update it when you get a chance. Thanks. — ©   Alex756   20:53, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, I have left the AMA, only because I haven't had enough time to spend on the Wikipedia these days. I'd love to return when I'm more active, but for now I'm going to hang back.  Sorry if I never made that clear.  Thanks for the note though.  Cheers!  --Spikey 23:30, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)

OFFICIAL AMA MEETING NOTICE
The first AMA Membership meeting will be held on Sunday January 23, 2005 at 19:00 UTC on freenode IRC channel #AMA. That is 2 PM Eastern NA (Miami/Montreal) Time, 11 AM Pacific NA (Los Angeles/Vancover)Time, and 8 PM Central European (Amsterdam/Stokholm/Warsaw/Venice) Time. All members are invited to attend. — ©   Alex756   19:48, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Logs of first AMA Membership meeting
You may view the log of the first meeting on the following two pages: AMA IRC Meeting log (1-23-05) (first hour) and AMA IRC Meeting log (1-23-05) Pt II (remainder of meeting). If you are interested in commenting on the agenda of the meeting please do so here:AMA Meeting (suggested topics).

OFFICIAL SECOND MEETING NOTICE AND REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 * "The second AMA Membership meeting will be held on Sunday January 30 2005 at 19:00 UTC on freenode IRC channel #AMA. That is 2 PM Eastern NA Time, 11 AM Pacific NA Time, and 8 PM Central European (Amsterdam/Stokholm/Warsaw/Venice) Time. All members are invited to attend."

The coordinator is requesting that members submit the following information for the upcoming coordinator’s report:

 * How many individuals did you help as an advocate
 * What is the maximum amount of time you put into a case
 * Do you feel your work as an advocate was successful?
 * How can the advocacy program of the AMA be improved?

Thank you. Please submit your responses here: AMA Coordinator/January 2005 Survey

 * — ©   Alex756   23:09, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC) (The Coordinator)

OFFICIAL THIRD MEETING NOTICE AND REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
The second AMA IRC Membership meetingwas held on Sunday January 30, 2005 at 19:00 UTC on freenode.net IRC channel #AMA. Attending were Wally, Metasquares, Anthere, Sam Spade, and alex756 (coordinator). The log of the second meeting can be found here: AMA IRC Meeting log (1-30-05).

"The third AMA Membership meeting will be held on Saturday February 12, 2005 at 17:00 UTC on freenode IRC channel #AMA. That is 12:00 Noon Eastern NA Time, 9 AM Pacific NA Time, and 6 PM Central European (Amsterdam/Stokholm/Warsaw/Venice) Time. All members are invited to attend.

Suggested Topics and Specific Proposals

 * MEMBERS PLEASE REVIEW

 * Suggestions for topics/proposals and agenda to be discussed at the next meeting are to be found at: AMA Meeting (suggested topics). All members are requested to make proposals there and respond to proposals on the talk page there before the beginning of the next meeting so discussion can be held forthwith concerning such proposals. Thank you, your Coordinator.

The coordinator is requesting that members who have not done so already submit the following information for the upcoming coordinator’s report:

 * How many individuals did you help as an advocate
 * What is the maximum amount of time you put into a case
 * Do you feel your work as an advocate was successful?
 * How can the advocacy program of the AMA be improved?

Thank you. Please submit your responses here. — ©   Alex756   23:22, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Quarto by email
Hi Spikey, a new mailing list has been set up to distribute news about the Wikimedia foundation, specifically at the moment to publicise Quarto. I saw your name on the quarto talk page requesting a copy by email, and I think this mailing list is how we're going to do it for the moment. It'll be a html email, which I've added to the Quarto talk page m:Talk:WQ. Mailing list is called Foundation-news-l (We also need translators!) Cheers w:User:Cormaggio

Bard kid?
Are you a Bard student? I ask only because you knew that James Chace had died. — Adam Conover † 06:18, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * I am, indeed. Well spotted, Mr. Class-of-2004!  (The Facebook just makes it too easy, doesn't it?)  Good to know there are more Bardians around here than just me.  Hey, wait, I know you: you're the orange stand guy!  Classic!  --Spikey 06:35, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * Do you mean Facebook, or a Bard facebook? I still don't know who you are... (oh, and by the way, reply on my talk page, so I know when you have!)   —  Adam Conover † 21:16, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Your AMA statement was deleted
Your AMA statement was deleted apparently carelessly from the AMA statements page (see this edit)if your statement needs to be restored, the text is at User:Pedant/AMA error Pedant 02:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Association of Members' Advocates
Hi, you are receiving this message because you have listed yourself as an active member of WP:AMA. If you aren't currently accepting inquiries for AMA, or if you have resigned, please de-list yourself from AMA Members. If you are still active, please consider tending to any new requests that may appear on Category:AMA Requests for Assistance. We're going to put AMA on wheels. :) Sorry for the template spamming - we're just trying to update our records, after we had a huge backlog earlier in the week (if you've been taking cases, then sorry, and please ignore this :)). Again, sorry, and thanks! M a  rtinp23  21:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Lava lamp
Long ago you posted about the potential trademark problem with "Lava lamp". Well, nearly 3 1/2 years later it's come up! Lava lamp has been removed and a discussion is ongoing here. violet/riga (t) 14:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

An Invite to join the Highways WikiProject
JCbot (talk) 01:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

RfC:Infobox Road proposal
WP:AURD (Australian Roads), is inviting comment on a proposal to convert Australian road articles to. Please come and discuss. The vote will be after concerns have been looked into.

 * Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian Roads/RfC:Infobox Road proposal

You are being notified as a member on the list of WP:HWY

Nbound (talk) 22:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

August 2014
Hello, I'm Llightex. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Diaspora (social network) because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Llightex (talk) 21:12, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Spikey


text:
User talk:Neowall

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some useful links in case you haven't already found them:

 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

Tip: you can sign your name with ~

Dori | Talk 21:10, Dec 6, 2003 (UTC)

title: User talk:Neowall


text:
List of Baldwin diesel locomotives

Diesel locomotives built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works:

title: List of Baldwin diesel locomotives


text:
Coit Tower

Coit Tower (also known as the Coit Memorial Tower) is a 210 ft tower in the Telegraph Hill neighborhood of San Francisco, California, overlooking the city and San Francisco Bay. The tower, in the city's Pioneer Park, was built between 1932 and 1933 using Lillie Hitchcock Coit's bequest to beautify the city of San Francisco. It was added to the National Register of Historic Places on January 29, 2008.

The Art Deco tower, built of unpainted reinforced concrete, was designed by architects Arthur Brown Jr. and Henry Temple Howard. The interior features fresco murals in the American Social Realism style, painted by 22 different onsite artists and their numerous assistants. Three artists preferred oil on canvas and worked offsite. One artist preferred egg tempera rather than fresco.

It is often erroneously stated that the structure was dedicated to the volunteer firemen who had died in San Francisco's five major fires, but that is not accurate. The tower was constructed as the result of a bequest by Lillie Hitchcock Coit, whose will included two bequests, one to create a memorial to the city's volunteer firefighters, which was done by statuary in Washington Square, and the other to beautify the city. Coit Tower is the result of the second bequest. A concrete relief of a phoenix by sculptor Robert Boardman Howard is placed above the main entrance. It was commissioned by the architect and cast as part of the building.

Although an apocryphal story claims that the tower was designed to resemble a fire hose nozzle due to Coit's affinity with the San Francisco firefighters of the day, the resemblance is coincidental.

History
Telegraph Hill, the tower's location, has been described as "the most optimal 360 degree viewing point to the San Francisco Bay and five surrounding counties." In 1849, it became the site of a two-story observation deck, from which information about incoming ships was broadcast to city residents using an optical semaphore system, replaced in 1853 by an electrical telegraph that was destroyed by a storm in 1870.

Coit Tower was paid for with money left by Lillie Hitchcock Coit (1843–1929), a wealthy socialite who loved to chase fires in the early days of the city's history. Before December 1866, there was no city fire department, and fires in the city, which broke out regularly in the wooden buildings, were extinguished by several volunteer fire companies. Coit was one of the more eccentric characters in the history of North Beach and Telegraph Hill, smoking cigars and wearing trousers long before it was socially acceptable for women to do so. She was an avid gambler and often dressed like a man in order to gamble in the males-only establishments that dotted North Beach.

Coit's fortune funded the monument four years following her death in 1929. She had a special relationship with the city's firefighters. At the age of fifteen she witnessed the Knickerbocker Engine Co. No. 5 in response to a fire call up on Telegraph Hill when they were shorthanded; she threw her school books to the ground and pitched in to help, calling out to other bystanders to help get the engine up the hill to the fire, to get the first water onto the blaze. After that Coit became the Engine Co. mascot and could barely be constrained by her parents from jumping into action at the sound of every fire bell. She frequently rode with the Knickerbocker Engine Co. 5, especially in street parades and celebrations in which the Engine Co. participated. Through her youth and adulthood Coit was recognized as an honorary firefighter.

In her will she specified that one third of her fortune, amounting to $118,000, "be expended in an appropriate manner for the purpose of adding to the beauty of the city which I have always loved." Two memorials were built in her name. One was Coit Tower, and the other was a sculpture depicting three firemen, one of them carrying a woman in his arms.

The San Francisco County Board of Supervisors proposed that Coit's bequest be used for a road at Lake Merced. This proposal brought disapproval from the estate's executors, who expressed a desire that the county find "ways and means of expending this money on a memorial that in itself would be an entity and not a unit of public development". Art Commission president Herbert Fleishhacker suggested a memorial on Telegraph Hill, which was approved by the estate executors. An additional $7,000 in city funds was appropriated, and a design competition was initiated. The winner was architect Arthur Brown, Jr, whose design was completed and dedicated on October 8, 1933.

The following month Honore Bowlby-Gledhill, proprietor of the Dead Fish Cafe (an 'artists' restaurant') in Telegraph Hill, was charged (under the name 'Helen Smith') with shooting a pistol at the tower. Bowlby-Gledhill was quoted as objecting to the tower because it 'looked like a silo'.

Coit Tower was listed as a San Francisco Designated Landmark in 1984 and on the National Register of Historic Places in 2008. Although Coit Tower itself is not technically a California Historical Landmark, the state historical plaque for Telegraph Hill is located in the tower's lobby, marking the site of the original signal station.

The San Francisco Arts Commission ordered the removal of the Statue of Christopher Columbus that had stood outside the entrance of the tower since 1957, following numerous other removals of controversial statues during the George Floyd protests that began in May 2020, and it was removed on June 18, 2020.

Architecture
Brown's competition design envisioned a restaurant in the tower, which was changed to an exhibition area in the final version. The design uses three nesting concrete cylinders, the outermost a tapering fluted 180 ft shaft that supports the viewing platform. An intermediate shaft contains a stairway, and an inner shaft houses the elevator. The observation deck is 32 ft below the top, with an arcade and skylights above it. A rotunda at the base houses display space and a gift shop.

Potable water is pumped from a water main at street level to two 1000 USgal tanks on the fifth floor, and gravity is used to feed all systems in the tower; a booster pump was installed later at the tanks to provide adequate pressure for the restrooms. Because of this arrangement, the murals (on the second and ground floors) are vulnerable to water damage from system leaks, which could be avoided if adequate pressure was available from the water supply at the street.

Mural project

The Coit Tower murals in the American Social Realism style formed the pilot project of the Public Works of Art Project, the first of the New Deal federal employment programs for artists. Ralph Stackpole and Bernard Zakheim successfully sought the commission in 1933, and supervised the muralists, including Maxine Albro, Victor Arnautoff, Jane Berlandina, Ray Bertrand, Ray Boynton, Ralph Chessé, Rinaldo Cuneo, Ben F. Cunningham, Mallette "Harold" Dean, Parker Hall, Edith Hamlin, George Albert Harris, William Hesthal, John Langley Howard, Lucien Labaudt, Gordon Langdon, Jose Moya del Pino  Otis Oldfield, Frederick Olmsted Jr., Suzanne Scheuer, Edward Terada, Frede Vidar, and Clifford Wight. Many were faculty and students of the California School of Fine Arts (CSFA).

These artists (chosen by Walter Heil, director of the de Young Museum, together with other officials) were each paid $25 to $45 per week to depict "aspects of life in California." The most well-known of them were assigned sections that were 10 by in size, while less famous artists were confined to 10 by.

Themes
The artists were committed in varying degrees to racial equality and to leftist and Marxist political ideas, which are strongly expressed in the paintings. Bernard Zakheim's mural Library depicts fellow artist John Langley Howard crumpling a newspaper in his left hand as he reaches for a shelved copy of Karl Marx's Das Kapital (here spelled as Das Capital) with his right. Workers of all races are shown as equals, often in the heroic poses of Socialist realism, while well-dressed racially white members of the capitalist classes enjoy the fruit of their labor.

Victor Arnautoff's City Life includes the periodicals The New Masses and The Daily Worker in the scene's news stand rack.

John Langley Howard's mural California Industrial Scenes depicts an ethnically diverse Labor March as well as showing a destitute family panning for gold while a wealthy, heavily caricatured ensemble observes.

Stackpole's Industries of California was composed along the same lines as an early study of the destroyed Man at the Crossroads.

The youngest of the muralists, George Albert Harris, painted a mural called Banking and Law. In the mural, the world of finance is represented by the Federal Reserve Bank and a stock market ticker (in which stocks are shown as declining) and law is illustrated by a law library. Some of the book titles that appear in the law library, such as Civil, Penal, and Moral Codes, are legitimate, while others list fellow muralists as authors, in a joking or derogatory manner.

After Diego Rivera's Man at the Crossroads mural was destroyed by its Rockefeller Center patrons for the inclusion of an image of Lenin, the Coit Tower muralists protested, picketing the tower. Sympathy for Rivera led some artists to incorporate references to the Rivera incident; in Zakheim's Library panel, Stackpole is painted reading a newspaper headline announcing the destruction of Rivera's mural.

Censorship
After most of the Coit Tower murals had already been completed, the 1934 West Coast waterfront strike, taking place nearby at the foot of Telegraph Hill, caused government officials, shipping companies, some union leaders and the press to raise fears about communist agitation. This "red scare" has been identified as playing a "crucial role" in a subsequent controversy that mainly focused on two of the murals:
 * 1)  and : These portraits were linked originally by a third small fresco in which Clifford Wight portrayed capitalism, the New Deal and communism, the three prominent economic systems of the era, with the communism part containing a hammer and sickle and the caption "Workers of the World Unite."
 * : John Langley Howard's Industry mural (designed with the support of his architect brother Henry Howard), which depicts California industrial scenes including out-of-work men, and angered conservatives by showing a banner of the communist periodical Western Worker above a crowd of workers.

On June 23, 1934, the conservative banker Herbert Fleishhacker, the most powerful member of the committee allocating funds from the Public Works of Art Project, asked Heil to inspect the art, who telegraphed back that some artists had included "details ... and certain symbols which might be interpreted as communistic propaganda," and that "editors of influential papers ... have warned us that they would take hostile attitude towards whole project unless those details be removed." The official opening of the tower, planned for July 7, was canceled and Fleishhacker ordered to close the tower and to block the view from outside through the windows. Subsequently, articles in the San Francisco Chronicle and The San Francisco Examiner attacked the project, sometimes using misleading representations of the artworks in question, while Wight refused to remove the hammer and sickle symbol from his mural. However, federal government officials decided that the offending parts would need to be painted over, and 16 of the artists signed a statement saying that they opposed the hammer and sickle symbol and that it "has no place in the subject matter assigned." Eventually, only the hammer and sickle and the "Western Worker" banner were removed, and Coit Tower opened on October 12, 1934.

Technical details and access
Two of the murals are of San Francisco Bay scenes. Most murals are done in fresco; the exceptions are one mural done in egg tempera (Home Life by Jane Berlandina, : upstairs, in the last decorated room) and the works done in the elevator foyer, which are oil on canvas (,, , and ). While most of the murals were restored in 1990 and again in 2014 through cleaning and touching up scratches, the murals in the spiral stairway exit to the observation platform (Powell Street by Lucien Labaudt) were not restored but durably painted over with epoxy surfacing.

Most of the murals are open for public viewing without charge during open hours, although there are ongoing negotiations by the Recreation and Parks Department of San Francisco to begin charging visitors a fee to enter the mural rotunda. The murals in the spiral stairway and second floor, normally closed to the public, are open for viewing through tours. Labaudt's Powell Street runs along both sides of the spiral staircase; the second-floor murals all carry recreational themes.

Since 2004 artist Ben Wood collaborated with other artists on large scale video projections onto the exterior of Coit Tower, in 2004, 2006, 2008 & 2009.

Panorama
The tower, which stands atop Telegraph Hill in San Francisco's Pioneer Park, offers panoramic views of San Francisco that take in "crooked" Lombard Street, Nob Hill, Russian Hill, Twin Peaks, Aquatic Park, Pier 39, the Financial District and the Ferry Building, as well as San Francisco Bay itself including Angel Island, Alcatraz, Treasure Island, and the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges.

In popular culture
Coit Tower is a prominent landscape feature in Alfred Hitchcock's 1958 film, Vertigo, set largely in San Francisco. The character of Madeleine (Kim Novak) tells Scotty (James Stewart) that she has used the tower to orient herself to his apartment, as she did not know his street address; he responds this is the first time he had been grateful for the tower. Art director Henry Bumstead, who worked on Vertigo, noted that Hitchcock was adamant that Coit Tower should be seen in the film from the apartment of the lead character, portrayed by Stewart. When Bumstead asked why, Hitchcock said, "It's a phallic symbol."

Coit Tower is also featured in:
 * The Strawberry Statement (1970 film)
 * The Enforcer (1976)
 * Tex Murphy series (1989–2014)
 * California's Gold Episode 12004
 * PBS The History Detectives Episode 709 August 24, 2009.
 * Just like Heaven (2005)
 * Cats & Dogs: The Revenge of Kitty Galore (2010)

title: Coit Tower


text:
Talk:Stargate SG-1/Archive 4

Delete without discussion
User:MatthewFenton deleted the entire "Themes" section, which another editor had been contributing to recently. While I have no strong opinion either way about the edit itself, I find the method used to be uncollegial. If I were going to delete an entire section like that, I would, first, announce that I was going to do so, and if I thought an active editor would object I would wait at least a day; second, I would paste the deleted section into the Talk page (or if it's big enough, onto a Talk subpage). Consensus is a critical component of neutrality. I would be in favor of restoring the section, at least for the duration of a "section for deletion" discussion here. Avt tor 19:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to agree - sorry Matt.  Morphh   (talk) 19:26, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

as the one responsible for the recent edits allow me to explain my intentions. first, the information listed in the 'themes' section was already present under 'show summary'. now, much of that information is not a show summary and thus i created the 'themes' section with the hope that the section would become a location for info from interviews, dvd commentaries, and analysis. that the info was already on the page is verifible by simply looking at the history page. second, i do not disagree that sources are needed. I also agree with Avt tor that large deletions should be first presented as a discussion. a significant amount of time is necessary to do the research to find articles and listen to commentaries. collaboration would allow for expedient and verifible edits Mwhope 20:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * at the very least it needs some cleaning up--88wolfmaster 05:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

New Section
Under the Cast section there are references to MacGuyver and Wizard of Oz shouldnt this be under its own section (notable references/allusion in the show or something). In addition, the cast section explains how two Chiefs of Staff have appeared in the show shouldn't this paragraph go below the other characters? --88wolfmaster 21:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Reorder Sections
I think if the sections were order as follows they would flow better: 1 Show summary, 2 Plot Summary, 3 Themes, 4 Cast, 5 Show history, 6 Cancellation, 7 Differences between the film and series, 8 Broadcasters, 9 Spin-offs, 10 Fictional universe, 11 DVD releases, 12 References, 13 External links --88wolfmaster 21:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Be Bold! :P Illyria05 (Talk • Contributions) 00:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Additional Actors
I would really like to address several more actors in some way, shape, or form. They are: Dr. Fraiser (Teryl Rothery) Dr. Carolyn Lam (Lexa Doig) Master Bra'tac (Tony Amendola) Selmak / Jacob Carter (Carmen Argenziano) Dr. Bill Lee (Bill Dow) Major Paul Davis (Colin Cunningham) Apophis (Peter Williams) Ba'al (Cliff Simon) Anubis (David Palffy) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88wolfmaster (talk • contribs) 01:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

 * Not necessary - that's what the sub-articles are for. Otherwise, this article becomes unfocused. (Extensive character lists in main articles have a tendency to become magnets for every character that ever appears.) --Ckatz chat spy  02:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not even under a common reoccuring guests (sub)section?; if not thats ok it seems we have more pressing issues to attend to.--88wolfmaster 20:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

That kind of thing should go in Tau'ri characters in Stargate SG-1, etc. There is no need for more than the current list of major characters in the main series article. --Tango 22:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I can see i'm outnumbered on this issue.--88wolfmaster 05:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Cancellation
Is it accurate to say SG-1 was cancelled? Technically, it just wasn't renewed. There never was an 11th season to cancel. --Tango 19:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur, it certainly wasn't cancelled (in the sense of the original BSG, Star Trek: Enterprise, etc). Matthew 19:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've rephrased the cancellation section. Some parts might not read very well, though, so some copyediting would be good. --Tango 22:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually, what should be done is to adjust the "developing story" perspective and just describe the current state of affairs. I'll take a stab at it in a bit if someone doesn't beat me to it.

 * —  Jim Dunning  talk  : 13:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Deletion note + prod notice + suggestion
Just minor things where I see need to comment.

1. I deleted the following paragraph from Stargate SG-1 because it was without sources (and if it is in fact true, it should rather be included in Stargate: Continuum): ''While SG-1 attends the execution of Ba'al, the last of the Goa'uld System Lords, Teal'c and Vala inexplicably disappear into thin air. Carter, Daniel and Mitchell race back to a world where history has been changed: the Stargate program has been erased from the timeline. As they try to convince the authorities of what's happened, a fleet of Goa'uld motherships arrives in orbit, led by Ba'al, his queen, Katesh (Vala) and his first prime, Teal'c. SG-1 must find the Stargate and set things right before the world is enslaved by the Goa'uld.''

2. Differences between Stargate and Stargate SG-1 (which had just been split off from the main Stargate page) had a prod notice stay for over five days. If it gets deleted, you can still access its former version here (and see if we really need to have such a list anywhere on wikipedia).

3. I also noticed that the Stargate SG-1 list is getting rather long and unencyclopedic. Neither the main articles for Lost (TV series) nor Buffy the Vampire Slayer have such a list, so I suggest deleting it. (I'm just waiting for consensus.) – sgeureka t•c 14:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Some just removed the prod, so I imagine it'll go to AFD next, where it'll probably get deleted. It couldn't hurt to have a few examples in a section about the origins of the show. Koweja 14:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Re: prod. I didn't know that removing the prod tag was allowed after five days have passed, or I would have done so myself. I also added some new info/behind-the-scenes comments to the once-prodded page to get away from the pure listcruft style (it's all from memory though since the info probably comes from DVD commentaries - so that means a fact tag for now). – sgeureka t•c 19:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have organized the broadcasters section into a table (in case we dont delete it).--88wolfmaster 20:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

gif help
Does anyone know why the animation of the opening credits dosent work???? it would be really cool if we could use it [[media:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg]] Nathan N F M 03:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Attempt to create precedent disallowing individual episodes
There is discussion at WP:AN/I, and an AfD at Articles for deletion/Kept Man that is attempting to create a precedent disallowing individual episodes. Matthew 18:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

 * User:Peregrine Fisher and User:Matthew are attempting to vote stack this AfD by telling other users that this AfD will effect unrelated episode articles. This AfD is only about this set of articles, and stands on it's own. AfD is not a vote. Editors coming here to support a different show's set of episode articles should take the time to comment on Articles for deletion/Kept Man situation individually. -- Ned Scott 18:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Fiction noticeboard
A new noticeboard, Fiction noticeboard, has been created. - Peregrine Fisher 18:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

 * This noticeboard has been deleted per Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard. Please disregard the above post. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

prod List of Stargate SG-1 seasons
I'm just letting you know that I've prodded List of Stargate SG-1 seasons. If someone feels the deletion would be controversial and removes the prod template, I'd consider AfD. See the reasons/discussion at Talk:List of Stargate SG-1 seasons. – sgeureka t•c 08:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Spoilertags
Someone has to put in spoiler tags on this page. I think i just ruined 21% of the storyline for myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.155.120 (talk • contribs)

 * Which section? Sections like "Plot" and "Story arcs" are going to contain spoilers - spoiler tags there are redundant. If there are spoilers in other sections, please let me know and I'll take a look. --Tango 20:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

In the story arcs section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.160.44.145 (talk • contribs)

 * I think it's fair to say spoilers are to be expected in a section on story arcs. It's impossible to discuss the story arcs without saying what they are. --Tango 22:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Short Title.jpg
Image:Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Short Title.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I tried to address this by adding a couple Fair Use rationale points. Morphh   (talk) 14:30, 06 June 2007 (UTC)

Sci Fi Channel
It strikes me as odd that Sci Fi Channel would be listed as an original channel, probably because they're not really an original channel. I've been bold and removed it from the infobox in a cleanup. Can point out some points that would make Sci Fi Channel an original channel? It's much like the airdate debae, I'd say, as there can only be one "original". Matthew 14:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Seasons 6–10 were originally shown on SciFi, so it's an original channel, if not the original channel.
 * —wwoods 14:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * But by that definition Sky One would be an original channel (for originally showing episodes first — season ten wasn't the first time), which it certainly isn't. Not that I'd complain if we listed Sky One within the article, though. Matthew 14:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Note that the infobox doesn't use a plural, either. So I believe that it literally means: the original channel. Matthew 14:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, the "original channel" field refers to the network producing the show. For seasons 1-5, it was Showtime, while seasons 6-10 were produced by SCI FI. (It is akin to a show jumping from, say, ABC to NBC - in this case, Showtime was involved in the first half of the run, but played no part in the second half.) --Ckatz chat spy  17:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a valid observation about the singular "original channel", but the template instructions address that: "The original network(s) or channel(s) on which the show appears." (Good of you to bring it up, though.) --Ckatz chat spy  17:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Australian première
"The first episode was broadcast on July 27, 1997 on Showtime in the US and December 3, 1997 on the Seven Network in Australia." I'm considering removing the part in italics, the Australian air date doesn't seem very relevant to me. Perhaps a note could be made on the episode page, personally I don't like the thought of a "International broadcasts" section on every episode page, as Wikipedia isn't a TV guide. Any opinions? Matthew 14:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Template:Dated episode notability
An editor has requested deletion review on this template after a decision was made to delete the template at TfD. You are invited to participate in the discussion at the DRV if you so wish, see Deletion review/Log/2007 July 4. The original TfD is located at Templates for deletion/Log/2007 June 24. Ursasapien (talk) 05:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Children of the Gods
Has been tagged as lacking secondary sources to establish notability... though it's clear to me the episode (and other episodes of television series ) are notable for being episodes of their shows (a reason why I nominated that template for deletion). Anybody interested in working with me to add some sources? Matthew 15:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I would like to see our episode articles improved and am happy to devote a little time to doing that, but I'm not really sure what we can do. The only relevant secondary sources we're going to be able to find are reviews. I don't think an episode being reviewed establishes notability. The episodes are notable, as you say, because of their association with the parent program (for which I can find numerous sources to establish notability in a few minutes). I don't think there is anything we can do on the level of individual episodes - we have to work to establish an appropriate general policy. --Tango 18:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A review from a notable third-party source would qualify. For example, a newspaper, TV Guide, etc. Personal blogs, fan sites (except for the larger, well-established ones) and user forums wouldn't. --Ckatz chat spy  19:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Newspapers review hundreds of things, I wouldn't say they were all notable. They don't generally review TV episodes, anyway. --Tango 22:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Vancouver edit war
Okay, the edit war over Vancouver, B.C. vs. Vancouver, Canada needs to stop. Please discuss it here before making any changes. We need to establish a consensus and then abide by it. =David ( talk )( contribs ) 01:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I've reported User:Robinepowell for a 3RR violation. Hopefully that will be the end of it. --Tango 01:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Although I agree that her violation of 3RR is grounds for admin action, I've been searching through the Category "Vancouver television series" to see how the editors of other similar shows do it...and it seems that most of them include the entire name, ("Vancouver, British Columbia"), or eliminate the city altogether, reporting filming in "the British Columbia region of Canada." I think that we should discuss this further, preferably with a Canadian Stargate fan included.  I think that someone from Canada would be better able to enlighten us on the common usage.  (Of course, if someone can find a mention in the manual of style that refers to something like this, we'll follow that.)  Let's establish consensus and go from there.   =David ( talk )( contribs ) 02:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it is wrong to ask a Canadian. In Canada, I'm sure the common usage is to give the province, not the country, since it should be obvious what country they are talking about. What we need to consider is what helps non-Canadian readers most. How sure are we that our readers know that British Columbia is in Canada, for example? --Tango 02:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, then we should take a look at some of the other shows in the Category "Vancouver television series." =David ( talk )( contribs ) 02:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've asked for some input over at the Canadian TV shows wikiproject talk page. Hopefully they can help.  =David ( talk )( contribs ) 02:32, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm always interested to know how American proponents of "Vancouver, Canada" would feel if a Canadian editor insisted on "Denver, United States" instead of "Denver, Colorado". I'm pretty sure major hackles would go up. Bottom line: if it's "City, State" rather than "City, United States", then it has to be "City, Province" rather than "City, Canada". You can't have one and not the other. Bearcat 03:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You've raised a good point. I don't know how well the analogy carries to the international community, but it makes perfect sense to me - and it seems to be borne out by many of the other shows in the Canadian TV shows category.  =David ( talk )( contribs ) 03:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Uhh, why can't you just add both?--ZXCVBNM 03:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, it doesn't always map neatly to all countries. Generally, my policy is to check what the local preference is first before making an edit that involves a foreign city, because it generally comes across as either imperialist or ignorant to disregard that. I know, for example, that almost nobody would ever insist on "Paris, Île-de-France" in lieu of Paris, France, but conversely Sydney, New South Wales is considered more correct than "Sydney, Australia". Bearcat 03:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Speaking personally (as a Vancouverite), I prefer "Vancouver, Canada" for Wikipedia articles - given that the project is international. (If it was only Canada, or North America, I might be inclined to use "Vancouver, British Columbia" or just "Vancouver".) As much as I love my province, I think that "Canada" is more helpful to foreigners who aren't necessarily familiar with where or what "British Columbia" is. Some have even thought it was a country in South America... ---Ckatz chat spy  04:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I think "Vancouver, Canada" would be appropriate since WikiPedia is a international project. British Columbia just isn't known to everyone in the world, so it might cause confusion.-sAnJi1119 04:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Denver, United States". Not everybody knows where Colorado is, right? Bearcat 06:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that we're just conditioned to feel that form (D,US) is "odd". Most of the English-language world is inundated with American television and films, and those would by default use the "city, state" format (or even just "city"). By comparison, the Brits are less likely to see Canadian or Australian shows with provincial/state references (and likewise in return) - and as such are more likely to expect the "city, country" style. --Ckatz chat spy  07:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, not everyone is American or Canadian. I, for one, know what British Columbia is but I tend to think the majority of people don't know that. If you do want to know what province Vancouver is in, why don't you click on the link? Are the 2010 Winter Olympics going to have place in Vancouver, British Columbia? Most people would answer Vancouver, Canada to that. If WP were strictly for Americans or Canadians, maybe Vancouver would suffice. But since it is an international project, states/provinces/districts/counties/etc are completely irrelevant. » byeee 10:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just putting in my two cents, I, as an American, would say it as "Vancouver, Canada;" when referring to all cities outside the US, I use the (city, country) format, and when referring to cities inside the US I use the (city, state) format. I suppose it would be different internationally, but Vancouver, Canada is fine without saying "British Columbia." Anyone outside Canada would be unfamiliar with that region.

 * That said, I'm going to add this to Lamest edit wars.--ZXCVBNM 15:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If this is such a lame edit war, why did you get involved? Calling an edit war lame in the edit summary of a revert is just hypocritical. --Tango 18:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed it from the "lame list" - hardly seems appropriate in comparison to the other entries there. (That is to say, putting this minor dispute on the list is lamer than the dispute itself...) --Ckatz chat spy  21:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem with US cities is that a lot of names (including Denver) are used by multiple cities in the US. "Denver, US" is ambiguous (see Denver (disambiguation)), so we have no choice but to give the state. The question is whether US states should be given as "Colorado" or "Colorado, US" (IMO, the latter). There is only one Vancouver is Canada, so "Vancouver, Canada" is fine. --Tango 18:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no other Denver in the United States that's notable enough to challenge the one in Colorado as the primary meaning of "Denver, United States". Bearcat 09:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Consensus?
There seems to be a consensus of sorts emerging in weak support of including Canada in the phrase. To that end, and in consideration of the other articles in the Canadian TV Shows category, I propose the following.

 * The current phrase is as follows:

It begins one year after the events of the 1994 science fiction film Stargate. It was produced in and around Vancouver, Canada.

 * I propose that it be changed to say:

It begins one year after the events of the 1994 science fiction film Stargate and was produced in the Vancouver area of British Columbia, Canada.

Could I request an informal straw poll to establish an actual consensus that we could cite? =David ( talk )( contribs ) 22:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't like the phrase "Vancouver area", since as far as I know, only the city is called Vancouver, not the area around it (which is the "Greater Vancouver Regional District" according to Vancouver). How about "produced in Vancouver in British Columbia, Canada."? I would prefer just "Vancouver, Canada", though. --Tango 22:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Vancouver, Canada" as "city, province, country" is too wordy. (Unless there are plans to start using "Los Angeles, California, United States" and so on. --Ckatz chat spy  23:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait, three words is "too wordy?" Since when? It it'll resolve this dispute, so be it, otherwise "Vancouver, Canada" is the generally accepted spelling.--ZXCVBNM 00:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I've removed the second "in" to make it a bit less clunky. Ckatz: I don't think your comparison to Los Angeles applies here.  Los Angeles is more populated and likely far more widely known internationally than Vancouver.  I could be wrong, though...  =David ( talk )( contribs ) 00:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * L.A. is more widely known than Vancouver, of course. In the same fashion, Vancouver is probably more widely known than British Columbia - and so adding B.C. lengthens the description without helping to help identify the city. --Ckatz <sup style="color:green;">chat <sub style="color:red;">spy  01:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds to me like we're arriving at a consensus to leave as-is. =David ( talk )( contribs ) 02:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I live in Canada, which why I'm changing it. We here in Canada don't refer to citites by name of the city followed by the country in Canada or the U.S. Province or State after the city. Why anyone would do otherwise is beyond me. Not to mention the fact that if you click on the links, it will tell you that Vancouver is in Canada, especially for "international" fans who apparenly everyone here feels are too "clueless" to figure it out on their own. I'd like to know why it can't be either just Vancouver in links or Vancouver B.C. in links. It works for Smallville, so do the same for Stargate. Robinepowell
 * Your opinion does not reflect consensus. I'm reverting it. (Never mind, it's already been done...)  We value your opinion, but until a consensus arises, reverting it is violating policy.  =David ( talk )( contribs ) 17:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said above, what Canadians do is irrelevant. I doubt there are many Canadians that don't know where Vancouver is. Any extra information we give is for the benefit of people that don't already know where Vancouver is. Now, we could assume they are small enough in number that we can just leave them to click the link and not give any extra information, but what harm does adding one or two extra words do? None. So, we might as well give more information. Just putting "British Columbia" is completely pointless. If someone doesn't already know were Vancouver is, then saying it is in British Columbia isn't likely to help them much. So, "Vancouver, British Columbia" is no better than just "Vancouver". So, it's a decision between "Vancouver", "Vancouver, Canada" or "Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada". I would say the last one is too long, but I don't see any reason to choose the first over the second. That is why I'm saying we should stick with "Vancouver, Canada". Once we've reached a consensus here, I will go to the Smallville article and change it there too. --Tango 17:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then presumably you won't mind if I edit Mork & Mindy to say that the show was set in "Boulder, United States". If what Canadians say for Canadian cities is irrelevant, then what Americans say for American cities is irrelevant. You can't have it both ways — it's either "City, State" for the US and "City, Province" for Canada, or "City, Canada" and "City, United States". It cannot be "City, State" but "City, Canada". Same format for both countries, period. Bearcat 10:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

You wanted a Canuck to weigh in and that I'm doing so, you reject it? Tell me something, why not change ALL shows to reflect the country where they were taped, including the U.S.?

That's what I don't understand, why does it have to say "Canada" if you have Vancouver in links? What's the point? I thought the whole point of links what so users could find out more about part in links. Linking Vancouver B.C. and clicking on it tells you it's a Province on the West Coast of Canada. Last time I checked the majority of people in North America do not say the city followed by the country, so why is it like that for this show? Robinepowell
 * I'm not rejecting anything. I don't have an opinion in this, I'm just trying to facilitate a discussion so we don't have an edit war.  I asked for a Canadian to add their opinion so we'd have an idea of how things are typically done.  I didn't say that we'd go with what they said with no more discussion.  Your opinion does not reflect consensus; until it does, the discussion needs to continue.   =David ( talk )( contribs ) 17:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is more to the world than North America... --Tango 17:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed - Robin, North Americans don't refer to the country because we're already here - if you're in the U.S., you presumably know that Seattle or Dallas or Omaha (etc.) is too. Likewise for Canadians - we don't need to remind ourselves what country Montreal, Calgary or Whitehorse is in. --Ckatz <sup style="color:green;">chat <sub style="color:red;">spy  19:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Again let me point out that's what the links around Vancouver B.C. are for. It tells what country its in, what in the country you can find Vancouver, the flag, the population for the matter. I always refer to a city followed by the State or Province in U.S. or Canada. To me it always has made sense to use the Province of B.C. after Canada. I've noticed that when talking about a show and where it's set, that it is also city followed by the State (or in some cases Province). Take Gilmore Girls for example, it is set in a fictional town of Stars Hollow. Murder She Wrote is another good example, of a fictional town follwed by the state of Maine. Nowhere does it say U.S.A, it is a given that they are set in the U.S. Robinepowell 02:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Please remember that Wikipedia has a global audience. You have to stop looking at this from a local perspective, and structure the information to reflect international readers. --Ckatz <sup style="color:green;">chat <sub style="color:red;">spy  02:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Then American articles have to be structured the same way. But you'd have a pitchfork-wielding mob after you if you insisted on changing American city references to "City, United States" on the grounds that international users might get confused by the state name. Bearcat 10:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm just going to drop this in here because of recent activity on the Smallville page, whatever the decision eventually is, please don't link Vancouver, British Columbia. That is not the title of the page. It's simply Vancouver. If you must, link each name separately. This unnecessary redirection just to make a point that Vancouver is in BC is not helpful. There's no need to pipe it either, since Vancouver's page clearly mentions both BC and Canada.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  03:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The choices are as follows: Using "City, Canada" for Canadian cities but "City, State" for American ones is simply not acceptable. Either both countries get "City, Subnational Division" or both countries get "City, Country". There's simply no defensible argument to be had that Canadian cities should be referred to differently than American ones are. Bearcat 10:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) City, Province for Canada and City, State for the United States,
 * 2) City, Canada and City, United States.
 * Firstly, I'd like to make it clear that in spite of your comment above, I am not American, I am British. Secondly, as I believe I've already said above, "City, US" doesn't work very well, since city names in the US are far from unique. In many cases you have to specify the state to make it clear which city you mean. So, the options for US cities are "City, State" or "City, State, US", just "City, US" is not an option (in many cases - for the few cities that have a unique name, it's fine). My "vote" would be for "City, Canada" and "City, State, US". Countries can be dropped when obvious from context. --Tango 10:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[quote]The choices are as follows: Using "City, Canada" for Canadian cities but "City, State" for American ones is simply not acceptable. Either both countries get "City, Subnational Division" or both countries get "City, Country". There's simply no defensible argument to be had that Canadian cities should be referred to differently than American ones are. Bearcat 10:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[/quote]
 * 1) City, Province for Canada and City, State for the United States,
 * 2) City, Canada and City, United States.

Exactly! I agree with you 100% on that! I may sound like a broken record but what's the point of the links around Vancouver B.C. if its going to be Vancouver Canada? I've noticed that only in the States that the city is followed by the State yet everywhere else the city followed by the country. Here in Canada we have can say what Province our city is in, just like the U.S. can say what State their city is in. I'd like to also point out this is Wikipedia, an Encyclopedia, where you can find out information, including where Vancouver B.C. is. I just don't know why everyone feels the need to "dumb it down" where Vancouver is concerned. I mean if you don't know where Vancouver B.C. is located, you can look it up on this very same site.Robinepowell 22:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that this "problem" only applies to Canada but not the States. As if everyone "international" automatically knows all 50+ States and their cities whether they're major or not. Canada is bigger landwise but with less cities to worry about since they are only 10 Provinces and 3 Territories. Again I'll ask, what's the point of the links around Vancouver B.C. if we're taking the assumption that non can figure out how to click on the links if they don't know where Vancouver or B.C. is located? Isn't that the whole point of links here? Not to mention Vancouver is a pretty major city in B.C. and also has an island with the same name. Around here when I watch the world weather I see major cities for other countries listed, what's to the same they don't the same and point out where Vancouver is located on the map, while they're doing the weather? In this day in age, it isn't hard to find out where a city is, even if it's not a major one. I'd like to also point out that is is an Enclyopedia website where most information is available. I don't think a book version of an Encyclopedia would listed Vancouver as "Vancouver, Canada" more likely list it as "Vacouver, B.C." and give some information on where Vancouver is located, which, I'll repeat, is what the links are for here.

title: Talk:Stargate SG-1/Archive 4