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Miss Porter's School

Miss Porter's School (MPS) is a private college preparatory school for girls founded in 1843 in Farmington, Connecticut. The school draws students from many of the fifty U.S. states, as well as from abroad. International students comprised 14% in the 2017–2018 year. The average class size was 10 students in 2017.

Early history and Sarah Porter
Miss Porter's School was established in 1843 by education reformer Sarah Porter. She was insistent that the school's curriculum include chemistry, physiology, botany, geology, and astronomy in addition to the more traditional subjects taught in girls' schools. Also encouraged were such athletic opportunities as tennis and horseback riding; in 1867 the school formed its own baseball team, the Tunxises, named after the Saukiog tribe who once settled the area on which the school is situated.

Mary Dunning Dow (1884–1903)
In 1884, Sarah Porter hired her former student, Mary Elizabeth Dunning Dow, with whom she began to share more of her duties as Head of School. From then until her death in 1900, Porter gradually relinquished her control of the school to Dow.

Sarah Porter's will named her nephew, Robert Porter Keep, as executor of her estate, of which the school was the most valuable asset. Dow's compensation for her position as sole Head of School was also specified in the will. As executor, Robert Keep began extensive repairs and renovations to the school. While Dow continued to receive a salary as per Porter's will, she became convinced that Keep, in diverting the school's income to pay for construction, was enriching his inheritance with funds that were rightfully hers. The conflict escalated and culminated in Dow's resignation in 1903. She moved to Briarcliff, New York, taking with her as many as 140 students and 16 faculty members, and began Mrs. Dow's School for Girls, which would become Briarcliff Junior College, absorbed in 1977 into Pace University.

Elizabeth Hale Keep and Robert Keep (1903–1917)
Robert Keep announced in July 1903 that the school would reopen in October 1903 with his wife, Elizabeth Vashti Hale Keep as Head of School, eleven teachers, and between five and sixteen students in attendance. After Keep succumbed to pneumonia and died on July 3, 1904, Elizabeth Keep continued to work at the school. One of her many legacies was a kindergarten for children of employees.

Robert Porter Keep, Jr., and Rose Anne Day Keep (1917–1943)
When Mrs. Keep died in 1917, leadership of the school passed to her stepson, Robert Porter Keep, Jr., a German teacher at Phillips Academy. From 1917 until the school's centennial celebrations in 1943, he and his wife remained Heads of School at Miss Porter's.

Centennial (1943)
The school was incorporated as a non-profit institution in 1943, emphasizing its purpose as a college preparatory school rather than a finishing school. Also in 1943, the school ended the tradition of hiring Heads of School from the Porter family, instead selecting Ward L. Johnson and his wife Katharine.

Ward L. Johnson and Katharine Johnson (1943–1954)
Ward Lamb Johnson had been the headmaster of the Lawrence School for twenty-two years when he and his wife joined the Farmington community in 1943. He retired eleven years later. During their tenure, Leila Dilworth Jones '44 Memorial Library was opened. They also increased faculty housing. The MPS Bulletin stated: "by the early 1950's the scholastic standing of Miss Porter's was among the highest in the country."

Hollis S. French and Mary Norris French (1954–1966)
Mary Norris (née Frick) French and her husband Hollis Stratton French served as co-principals of the school from 1954 to 1966.

Richard W. Davis (1966–1975)
In 1966, then headmaster of The Buffalo Seminary Richard W. Davis was selected to be headmaster at Miss Porter's. He was to free the school of its "reputation of being too restrictive and too conservative." His appointment marked the first time in a half-century that the school would be directed by one person instead of a couple. Reflecting on his tenure at the school, Davis recalled, "We no longer required that girls wear head coverings in bad weather. We allowed pants to be worn, neat ones, to classes, but not to the dining room. We gradually dropped the requirement that all meals were 'sit-down,' with assigned seating. The changes did not come all at once, yet each one brought some dissent. Certain faculty members felt that standards were slipping."

Warren Smock Hance (1975–1983)
Having arrived in Farmington in 1967, also from The Buffalo Seminary (like Davis), Warren 'Skip' Hance quickly took on administrative roles in addition to teaching history. First he was department chair and then director of development. There followed the appointment to be assistant headmaster, and then to be the ninth Head of Miss Porter's School.

Rachel Phillips Belash (1983–1992)
Immediately prior to her service as Miss Porter's Head of School, Belash had been vice president at First National Bank of Boston. A native of Wales, an accomplished cellist, and holding a Ph.D. in Spanish literature, Belash was inaugurated tenth Head of Miss Porter's School for a term beginning in 1983. She was devoted to renewing single-sex education for girls and spoke widely on the topic, as well as writing for The New York Times. One report called her a "visionary".

Marianna Mead O'Brien (1992–1993)
In July 1992, Marianna 'Muffin' Mead O'Brien began her term as Head of School, following Belash's abrupt resignation at the end of June, and having served the school in years prior on the board of trustees from 1976 to 1983, and, respectively, as parent to three alumnae. Drawing on her experience of twenty-five years at the Groton School, during which she had "helped start the coeducation program, taught history, tutored reading and was in the human relations and sexuality counseling faculty," O'Brien served a one-year term between the Belash and Ford administrations.

M. Burch Tracy Ford (1993–2009)
M. Burch Tracy Ford was dean of students at Milton Academy and a residential counselor at the Groton School before coming to Miss Porter's. In 1994, she wrote in a letter to the editor of The New York Times, that “Coed classrooms are the norm, but the norm does not serve girls well; it needs to be challenged and, ultimately, changed. Single-sex education is counterculture, but it's good for girls.” Ford oversaw the launch of The Oprah Winfrey Endowed Scholarship Fund at Miss Porter's, offered through the Oprah Winfrey Foundation. Memorialized in The Boston Globe by her husband and crew coach Brian Ford, “She was determined that Miss Porter's was going to compete on an even level with every school in the country. And she felt that having decent, competitive sports was one element of that.”

Katherine Windsor (since 2009)
Since 2009, the Head of School has been Katherine Windsor, who draws on her experience running the Center for Talented Youth program at Johns Hopkins University and The Sage School in Foxborough, Massachusetts. Her tenure as Head of School has seen the school instantiate its partnership with the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education's Independent School Teaching Residency program.

In late May 2020, due to the Covid pandemic, Windsor presided over virtual graduation exercises.

Tuition and financial aid
The tuition for boarding students was valued at $66,825 for 2021–22, plus other mandatory and optional fees. Miss Porter's offers need-based financial aid.

Endowment
The Dorothy Walker Bush 1919 Fund was established in 1994 in her memory by family and friends to bring speakers to the school who address religion, spirituality, and faith. The Emily Brown Fritzinger '59 Music Fund was established by her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Gardner Brown (Elizabeth Smith 1928), family, and friends; the fund supports musical performances on campus and occasional trips to New York City for all students and faculty to attend a live performance. The Elisabeth S. Hadden '76 Memorial Fund was established in 1976 in her memory by family and friends to support the annual Haggis Baggis poetry reading. The Kalat Fund for National and International Resources was established by Virginia Lowry Kalat '39, in honor of her 45th Reunion. The Geri Mullis '69 Memorial Poetry Fund was established in 1994 by the members of the Class of 1969 in honor of their 25th Reunion to bring a guest artist to campus. The Prescott Program Fund was established in 1961 by Marjorie Wiggin Prescott (class of 1911) to bring distinguished visiting lecturers and performers to the School. The Suzannah Ryan Wilkie '53 and Janet Norton Bilkey '53 "Wilkie-Bilkey" Program was established in 1988 by the Class of 1953 in honor of their 35th Reunion to support an annual performance from the world of dance or drama or other live performance. The Oprah Winfrey Endowed Scholarship Fund, offered through the Oprah Winfrey Foundation, for the benefit of eligible students with demonstrated financial need who have displayed both academic excellence and leadership skills. One scholarship beneficiary presented her benefactor with the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award at the 2011 Governors Awards hosted by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

As of 2022, the school's endowment was estimated at $142.3 million.

Campus
The 40-acre campus overlooks the Farmington River and includes a number of historically significant buildings which have collectively served the wider Farmington community in a range of functional capacities over their respective histories. Over the years, the school has transformed its campus assets to suit its needs.

Academic facilities

 * Main House, located at 60 Main Street, and the front door of which is depicted on the school seal, was built in 1830 as the Union Hotel on Main Street, intended originally to serve patrons of the nearby Farmington Canal, rented subsequently to Sarah Porter in 1848 until her eventual purchase on April 19, 1866. Retrofitted with a kitchen during a renovation c. 1870s, the building serves as the central-most hub of campus life. Most recently, the dining hall was expanded to accommodate the school's burgeoning enrollment, with ultimate intention of bringing the whole facility around to bear a closer historic resemblance to the original hotel; a project which also saw the structure outfitted with an elevator to facilitate access, the campus security office and similarly adjacent student spaces suitably reimagined.
 * Greene House, better known to the wider community as the Thomas Hart Grist Mill, dates back to the 1600s and predates most structures in its immediate vicinity. Until the 1960s, the site was a functioning grist mill. In 2012, the building was purchased by the school and renovated for eventual service to the community in its capacity as admissions office.
 * Historical buildings Major Timothy Cowles House and Samuel Deming Store are used for faculty housing. The Thomas Hart Hooker House, built in 1770 and located on Main Street, currently serves as the campus alumnae/i and development office, having once served in years prior, up through the Ford administration, as faculty housing to each respective Head of School, and, subsequently, as admissions office. Also of historical note is the Cowles-Thompson House, purchased by the school in May 1961, for use as a faculty residence which is perhaps better known within the school community as the Vale-Asche House, having been endowed through the "70's Fund" by Marion S. Ackerman III (Vale Asche '51) and A. Dossett McCullough (Bettyann Asche '57) with income to be used for its maintenance and preservation; rendered originally in Italianate style, with later additions to "include the enclosed entry porch on the north elevation and small square window on the east elevation."
 * M. Burch Tracy Ford Library is one of the newer academic facilities on campus. It claims to house over 22,000 volumes, electronic books, magazines, journals, newspapers in addition to a collection of 1,308 academic and entertainment DVDs and videos.
 * Hamilton was known to past generations as the campus infirmary, then "christened Hamilton, in honor of the strong-minded, strong-willed group of Hamilton sisters and cousins who attended MPS in the late nineteenth century," most notably Alice and Edith. Today it is home to the English and History departments.
 * Leila Dilworth Jones '44 Memorial was a pharmacy prior to the school's founding, is home to the language department, where students may immerse themselves in modern and classical cultures including, but not limited to, Spanish, Latin, French, or Mandarin.
 * Dr. Glenda Newell-Harris '71 Student Center, centrally located and occupying a historic wood-shingled cottage at 62 Main Street, has, in recent years and particularly so since renovation and rededication as a living tribute to the first Black student ever to attend Miss Porter's School, come to replace the Wean Student Center as primary gathering space for students; known formerly to the school community as the Kate Lewis Gym, having at one point served students in its capacity as the school's only gym and theater, and, subsequently, as home to the school's music department and a cappella group, The Perilhettes, is wedged between Main House and the Counting House, built in 1912 by R.F. Jones & Co. as New Music Cottage.
 * Ann Whitney Olin Arts and Science Center is the main building for mathematics, science, and arts. Studio art labs include a painting and ceramics studio, each with 25 ft ceilings and 500 sqft of windows, as separated, respectively, by a textiles lab and a digital media lab, while the lower level of the facility counts as home the department's photography classroom and darkroom; all with full wheelchair-access accreditations. The renovation and expansion of this building was designed by Tai Soo Kim.
 * The Studio was erected in 1885 by alumnae of the school for use as an art studio; at its entrance a plaque inscribed in Latin reads, "in honor of their most faithful and much loved mistress, Sarah Porter, her scholars have, in grateful spirit, erected this building." The space is now home to the school's music department. Architecturally notable for its state of preservation, it is said to be the only building in Farmington influenced by the Richardsonian movement.

Athletic facilities

 * The Colgate Wellness Center, situated on the west side of Main Street just south of Porter Road, is an eight-bed licensed infirmary, wholly Ancient-run in its medical and counseling capacities, and itself having been remodeled in recent years to extend the space and streamline student access; known to generations past as Erastus Gay House, or Little Gay for its proximity and size relative the Julius Gay House, itself known alternatively as Weekend House.
 * The Student Recreation Center, designed by Tai Soo Kim and built in 1991, includes the Wean Student Center (a gift of the Raymond John Wean Foundation) and Crisp Gymnasium, with an elevated running track, a weight and exercise room, an athletic training room, and four once-standard squash courts, the court space of which has since been repurposed to accommodate a collective of Concept2 machines, a free weight room, and a climbing wall. The school's squash program has a permanent home elsewhere on campus.
 * The Mellon Gymnasium, designed by Maxwell Moore and built in 1962 as part of the theater-gymnasium complex, was a gift of the Richard King Mellon Foundation. It is home to Varsity badminton in the fall, JV and Thirds basketball in the winter, and is the designated indoor practice space for Varsity and JV Softball in the spring. It is also the official home of the Minks, Possums, and Squirrels, intramural rivalries that feature prominently the week leading up to the Welcome Tradition; outside of the complex, there is a statue for each of the three teams. In a space adjacent to the gym, the Barbara Lang Hacker '29 Theater is home to the Players/Mandolin Performance Troupe.
 * The Gaines Dance Barn, known to generations past as the Play Barn, built ca. 1941 and remodeled in 1993, is the 3500 sqft facility, ostensibly located at 64 Main Street, and which serves as both rehearsal and performance space for dance groups, most notably Dance Workshop. In March 1998, the facility was acoustically treated following complications stemming from the 1993 remodel, and, most recently, the space underwent a partial expansion over thanksgiving break 2020, such that it now includes a locker room and foyer space adjacent to the school's north entrance on Porter Road.
 * The Pool & Squash Building features a 25-yard, eight-lane ceramic-tile competition pool and eight regulation squash courts. The pool was built into the hillside, thereby reducing the impression of its height and using sloped roof lines.
 * The Farmington Boat House is home to the school's crew program; shared, and duly maintained, in a unique public-private partnership with Friends of Farmington Crew.
 * Kiki's Field (NCAA regulation synthetic turf) and Maple Field (NFHS synthetic turf) are home to both the school's soccer and lacrosse teams; located at 147 Garden Street, together with Cow Barn Field, which itself is home to the school's softball team.
 * Oaklea Field (full NCAA regulation synthetic turf) is home to the school's field hockey and ultimate teams, located at 10 Mountain Road.

Residential culture and student life
Approximately 75% of Porter's girls live on campus in dormitories, all but one of which are former Farmington private residences left to the school. The school currently maintains a total of nine student residence halls (or "houses"): Brick, Colony, Humphrey, Keep, Lathrop, Macomber, Main, New Place, and Ward, two of those are strictly limited to the senior class. Each residence has a house director who lives in a private suite or apartment in the immediate vicinity, often with his/her family. One of the school's distinguishing features is that house directors' primary responsibilities are within residential houses. Houses traditionally count among their residents two Junior Advisors, student leaders appointed to serve as peer counselors and mediators for each residence, respectively, with the exception of those houses restricted to seniors. Each house is self-governing to an extent, with students responsible for chores on a rotating schedule, the threat of curtailed privileges ever looming. Week-to-week, the Head of Student Activities works closely with the Office of Student Life to build an array of weekend activities; any one weekend has the potential to see a student take in a movie at a nearby AMC Theatres complex, peruse the Westfarms Mall, and partake in a game of lasertag, all in one fell swoop. This privilege is made available on an individual basis, at a student's leisure, depending of course on the student's academic or disciplinary standing and barring explicit parental restriction.

In her later years, Ancient Theodate Pope Riddle outfitted a section of her family's homestead on Mountain Road as The Odd and End Shop, known alternatively as The Gundy.

Clubs, sports, and organizations
The school claims to have over fifty active student-run clubs and organizations. If a student doesn't find an organization that fits their specific interest or need, there is a process by which they can create their own.

Athletics
Porter's traditional rival is The Ethel Walker School, against which it competes as a member of the Founders League, and, to a lesser extent, the likes of fellow founding members Choate Rosemary Hall, Hotchkiss, Kent, Kingswood-Oxford, Loomis Chaffee, Taft and Westminster. At the end of each season, Porter's competes against the league's most competitive teams in the New England Championships. The school has no mascot, although some call the teams Fighting Daisies. Since the turn of the millennium, student athletes have earned a combined 12 Founder's League and 8 New England championship titles.

Student publications
The following organizational boards sustain each of the school's publications:

 * Salmagundy, established October 27, 1945, is the school's student-run online monthly newspaper.
 * The school's journal for scholarly writing, Chautauqua, sharing its name with the US adult education movement, offers publication examples of student research across a variety of academic disciplines.
 * The school's yearbook is called Daeges Eage, Old English for "day's eye."
 * Haggis/Baggis is the school's magazine for literature and fine arts, featuring student poems, short stories, photographs, and artwork. It was first published in 1967. The Spring 1984 issue featured writing by a number of outside authors, solicited earlier in 1984 by the magazine's editors to discuss their respective visions for the year 2020, notably Anne Bernays, Ray Bradbury, Art Buchwald, then Vice President George H. W. Bush, Anthony Hecht, Edward Hoagland, William Manchester, Richard L. Strout, as well as a four-color print donated by Jamie Wyeth, in tribute to the Eric Blair (1903-1950), author of 1984.
 * The Language Literary Magazine is a yearly publication which showcases work by students of foreign languages.

Archives and special collections
As one of the oldest independent schools with archival holdings, the school is particularly significant for research. The archives contain a broad array of materials pertaining to the school and its founder. Sarah Porter’s Rule Book is in the holdings, as well as many letters, including those sent to her mother and sisters when she made her first visit to Europe in 1872 at the age of fifty-nine.

Notable faculty

 * Carlo Buonamici, music teacher
 * Robert Bolling Brandegee, art teacher
 * Theodore Thomas, music teacher

In popular culture

 * In the television show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, when Buffy's mother thinks it would be best to send Buffy away to school, she picks up an application to Miss Porter's.
 * In the musical Rent, one of the leads, Harvard-educated lawyer Joanne Jefferson, attended and learned to tango with the French ambassador's daughter in her dorm room at Miss Porter's.
 * In the novel, Betrayed by P.C. and Kristin Cast, Zoey finds Miss Porter's after researching different "private preparatory schools" to find examples of good student councils to model her own new Dark Daughters' council after.
 * The novel The New Girls (1979), by Beth Gutcheon, is set in a school called Miss Pratt's based on Miss Porter's.
 * In the film, Mona Lisa Smile (2003), as Katherine Watson is studying Joan Brandwyn's file, a cutaway shot of it reveals that she attended Miss Porter's School, but incorrectly locates it in Lower Merion, PA.
 * On the AMC television series Mad Men (2007-2015), Sally Draper completes an interview and overnight stay at Miss Porter's in the sixth-season episode titled "The Quality of Mercy." Later episodes highlight Sally's adventures at school.

title: Miss Porter's School


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The Famous Five (Canada)

The Famous Five (Célèbres cinq), also known as The Valiant Five, and initially as The Alberta Five, were five prominent Canadian suffragists who advocated for women and children: Henrietta Muir Edwards, Nellie McClung, Louise McKinney, Emily Murphy, and Irene Parlby. On August 27, 1927, they petitioned the federal government to refer the issue of the eligibility of women to be senator to the Supreme Court of Canada. This petition was the foundation of the Persons Case, a leading constitutional decision. Although most Canadian women had the vote in federal elections and all provinces but Quebec by 1927, the case was part of a larger drive for political equality. This was the first step towards equality for women in Canada and was the start to the first wave of feminism.

The question the federal government posed to the Supreme Court was: "Does the word 'Persons' in Section 24 of the British North America Act, 1867, include female persons?" In 1928, the Supreme Court unanimously held that women were not "qualified persons" within the meaning of s. 24 of the British North America Act, 1867. The five women appealed that ruling to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, at that time the highest court of appeal in the British Empire. On October 18, 1929, the Judicial Committee overruled the Supreme Court and held that women were "qualified persons" and eligible to be appointed to the Senate.

Some saw this as "radical change"; others saw it as a restoration of the original framing of the English constitutional documents, including the 1689 Bill of Rights, which uses only the term person, not the term man (or woman for that matter). Some others have interpreted the Privy Council rule as causing a change in the Canadian judicial approach to the Canadian constitution, an approach that has come to be known as the "living tree doctrine".

The Five
The women of the Famous Five included Emily Murphy, Henrietta Muir Edwards, Nellie McClung, Louise McKinney, and Irene Parlby. These five women represent iconic powerful movements and change within Canada, as they devoted their lives to advocacy in the 1880s, through to the 1890s. As the group first convened in Alberta, the five were initially referred to as The Alberta Five by the media. However, as a result of the group's importance to Canada as a whole, the group was eventually referred to as The Famous Five.

Henrietta Muir Edwards
Henrietta Muir Edwards, author and researcher on women's topics, held an influence within the National Council of Women of Canada and held chairmanship of the Committee in Law in the National Council of Women for more than 35 years. She was also a Red Cross leader during the First World War. Edwards was the secretary of the National Subcommittee which focused on thrift and economy in Canadian homes. She was also a founding member of the Victorian Order of Nurses.

Nellie McClung
Nellie McClung's jobs in her lifetime included teacher, author, public speaker, temperance activist, internationally known women's rights activist, and politician {Warne, Literature as Pulpit]. In 1918, she was a member of the Dominion War Council and the only woman representative at the League of Nations. McClung famously said "I‘ve never thought minding my own business is much of a virtue. Too often it‘s just an excuse for not taking action when action needs taking!". She represented Canada at the Ecumenical Council of the Methodist church in 1921 and was the first woman on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation Board of the Governors. In 1921, McClung was elected to the Alberta legislature as an MLA in Edmonton for the Liberal Party. She served one term, not being re-elected in 1926. She was a member of the Political Equality League of Manitoba, and she played the leading role in the Mock Parliament held on January 29, 1914, at the Walker Theatre in Winnipeg, which humorously discussed Votes for Men. In the 1960s, after McClung's name had not been mentioned for nearly a decade, feminists had rediscovered and had given McClung and the famous five their fame. McClung was very well known for her passion for the independence of women and her drive in order to achieve the rights women deserve.

Louise McKinney
Louise McKinney became one of the first two women elected to a legislature in the British Empire, and the first to take her seat. She was a founder of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union in Alberta and the West – she was the organization's vice-president for more than 22 years beginning in 1906 – and regularly attended World Meetings of the WCTU. She signed the appeal to the Privy Council in 1929. In 1931, she became president of the Canadian Union, Woman's Christian Temperance Union. McKinney was also named to be Commissioner for the first General Council of the United Church of Canada, and was the only woman to sign the Basis of Union.

Emily Murphy
Emily Murphy stood out among the Famous Five, as she was the British Empire's first female judge. Emily was appointed to the office of Magistrate of the Edmonton Juvenile Court in 1916, and later became the magistrate of the newly created Women's Court. At the time, no woman had held such a position, and many men objected.

During her career as a writer, Murphy used the pen name "Janey Canuck". In 1922, she wrote The Black Candle which detailed her beliefs on race and drug use in Canada and strongly influenced the drug policy of the day.

In 1958, the Government of Canada had named Emily Murphy a Person of Nation Historic Significance. Several decades even after the Person's case, the Senate of Canada had voted to acknowledge the five women in the “Famous Five” as honorary senators.

Irene Parlby
In 1916, Irene Parlby was elected as the first president of the United Farm Women of Alberta, and in 1921 was elected to the Alberta legislature and received a cabinet post in the United Farmers of Alberta government, becoming the second woman in the British Empire to hold ministerial rank. She was also the first female Cabinet minister in Alberta, and still serving in that capacity at the time of the court case. She was a cabinet minister until the downfall of the government in 1935. Parlby worked with the Red Cross during World War I and later served on the Board of Governors of the University of Alberta.

The Persons Case
During the year 1917 a discussion began surrounding women and their position in the senate, for 10 years this debate continued, however, was disregarded in 1927 as the Canadian BNA act implied it was impossible In August 1927, Emily Murphy invited four women activists, Nellie McClung, Irene Parlby, Louise McKinney and Henrietta Muir Edwards, to her home in Edmonton to discuss plans to petition the Canadian government to submit a reference question to the Supreme Court of Canada regarding the interpretation of the word persons in the British North America Act. On 27 August 1927, the five women, who became known as the Famous Five, sent a petition to the Governor General of Canada. The petition requested that the government ask the Supreme Court if power was vested in the governor general in council, the prime minister of Canada, or both, to appoint a woman to the Senate of Canada; and if it was constitutionally possible to make provisions that would allow for the appointment of a woman. In response to the petition, the Canadian government referred the following question to the Supreme Court: "Does the word 'Persons' in section 24 of the British North America Act, 1867, include female persons?"

On 24 April 1928, the Supreme Court held that women were not "qualified persons" within the meaning of s. 24 of the British North America Act. The ruling was based on the premise that the term should be interpreted in the same way as in 1867, and that the act would have specifically mentioned women if they had meant to make an exception for the Senate.

The Five then appealed the decision of the Supreme Court to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. On 18 October 1929, the Judicial Committee allowed their appeal and overturned the decision of the Supreme Court. The Judicial Committee concluded that the term " 'persons' does include women, and that women are eligible to be summoned to and become members of the Senate of Canada". The judgment was delivered by the Lord Chancellor, Viscount Sankey, who stated:

As a result of the Famous 5's determination and advocacy, the decision to overturn the supreme court and give women the title of “persons” was enacted. October 18, 1929 was officially the start to a movement that would live on for generations and invoke four new waves of feminism.

Honorary senators
The famous five built their foundation for women's rights on the idea of women in the senate. However, none of the famous 5 ever became a part of the senate, they opened the doors for Cairine Wilson, the first female senator. The achievement of personhood for women had been a monumental change which gave more power to women.

Some might well question the overall significance of the decision, noting that by the 1920s the Senate of Canada was a largely powerless body. The more powerful House of Commons of Canada had elected its first female member (Agnes Macphail) in 1921, well before the Persons Case. However, the precedent did establish the principle that women could hold any political office in Canada. Moreover, the Five clearly did devote their energies to increasing women's participation on legislative bodies with greater power: three had been members of the Alberta legislature. The controversy surrounding the women has made commemoration difficult. The five women were activists in a variety of areas in their pursuit to better the conditions for women and children.

Opinions on the Famous Five
The famous five were women rights advocates, however, advocacy was a lifestyle to them. Each of the famous five women had strong beliefs in other aspects of life that they would protest for. Some individuals believed they were powerful women but others took no interest in their fights. Such as opposition to non-white immigration and their successful campaigns to have eugenics legislation introduced in Canadian provinces, which resulted in the sterilization of thousands of those deemed "mentally deficient" or "insane" in Alberta and elsewhere. Emily Murphy was not shy with her opinions and her outspoken nature had a tendency to give her a negative reputation. She wrote letters of her opinions to police chiefs, government officials, social service agencies and judicial officials about the extent of drug traffic and possible cures. Nellie McClung was known as the most memorable and popular of the famous five. Her causes included women's right to vote, prohibition, women in the church and women in public life. Henrietta Muir Edwards was described as "tenacious" with her work with prohibition.

The five women were activists in a variety of areas in their pursuit to better the conditions for women and children. Emily Murphy dealt with single mothers and issues of child support, child welfare, and adoption by lobbying for women's rights. Nellie McClung favoured free medical and dental treatment for school children as well as mothers' allowances and better property rights for women. She was open to divorce and birth control but opposed the sale and use of liquor. Louise McKinney believed strongly in the "evils of alcohol" and pushed to enact prohibition measures. She advocated excluding cigarettes from parcels sent to soldiers in World War I in 1917. She supported reasonable measures for social welfare and health as well as introducing bills intended to make prohibition more effective, to improve the lot of immigrants and bring better security to widows. She was responsible for the introduction of a motion which led to the Dower Act. Irene Parlby in her position as cabinet minister in Alberta pursued these goals expressed by McKinney. Henrietta Edwards worked with property law and sought to protect women and children.

Commemorations
The Famous Five have been commemorated with individual and group plaques in the foyer and antechamber of Canada's Senate, and two identical sculptures by Canadian artist Barbara Paterson, one on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, the other at the Olympic Plaza in Calgary. The sculpture on Parliament Hill was unveiled on October 18, 2000, in a public ceremony that included songs in French and English, Inuit dancers, and speeches by Governor General Adrienne Clarkson and Prime Minister Jean Chrétien. A sculpture of the Famous Five by sculptor Helen Granger Young stands on the grounds of the Manitoba Legislature in Winnipeg. Commissioned by the Nellie McClung Foundation, it was unveiled at a ceremony on June 18, 2010.

The City of Edmonton has named one park in its River Valley Parks System after each of the "Famous Five".

Murphy had many accomplishments, such as becoming the first president of the Federated Women's Institute of Canada, vice-president of National Council of Women of Canada, president of Canadian Women's Press Club, director of the Canadian Council of Child Welfare, vice-president of the Canadian Association of Child Protection, first president of the Women's Canadian Club of Edmonton and vice-president of the Social Service Council of Canada. Emily Murphy also received many honours for her life's work including being decorated by King George V to be a Lady of Grace of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem.

Irene Parlby was honoured in 1935 at spring convocation at the University of Alberta with an honorary doctor of laws degree. Tributes in honour of Henrietta Edwards can be found on a plaque in the Senate Chamber in Ottawa and another in the post office in Fort Macleod. Nellie McClung spoke in Calgary after Edwards' passing and spoke of Edwards, "who for 40 years was the convener of laws for the National Council of Women" should not be forgotten.

The Five were commemorated in the 2001 Journey Series of Canada's fifty-dollar bill, along with Thérèse Casgrain, a feminist and politician from Quebec. In December 2011, the Bank of Canada announced that the Famous Five would not appear on the redesigned $50 Frontier Series banknote that it issued in 2012. The achievement of personhood for women had been a monumental change which gave more power to women. To honour the Five and continue to involve women in leadership roles in Canada, Frances Wright and others established the non-profit Famous Five Foundation on October 18, 1996, the 70th anniversary of the decision of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: The Famous Five (Canada)


text:
Talk:Nerfing (gaming)

To Nerf, or not To Nerf!?
That is not the question. The question is: "What to talk about in the lead-in section?"

Original:

In computer gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that downgrades the power, effectiveness or influence of a particular game element in the attempt to achieve balance. The term originated as a reference to the NERF brand of child toys, which are made to minimize possible damage. In the same way, "to nerf" describes the action of making something less harmful.

Discussion.

OK, as-is, this is very much an opinion item. Trying for a neutral PoV, and to be balanced in presenting different interpretations, how about something more like:

In computer gaming, the term nerf is often used to refer to a change that reduces the utility or desirability of any game element, for any reason. It may refer to an item "They nerfed my Axe of Extreme Coolness! It now looks just like a rusty axe!", an encounter "They nerfed The Encounter Of Extreme Uberness!  Now *ANYONE* can just zone in and get keyed!  And after all our work in beating the Whatsit Of Doom!", an area "MAN they nerfed the exp in Colossal Plains of Long Running!  I killed 100 zeebaras and got like half a bubble!", a tradeskill, ability, class, or even technical game feature "They nerfed the reconnect thing, and now you have to stay logged out 5 minutes if you /quit out."

There are a number of theories as to how the term entered the gaming jargon. One idea is that NERF toys are designed to minimize possible damage, and that "nerfing" in computer games reduces the harm done by that game element. Another is that while it hurts to be hit by a NERF bat, it probably won't cause an injury: similarly, having one's "Axe of Extreme Coolness" change from a huge glowing axe to a small rusty axe won't injure the player, but it may well "hurt".

There are also many causes for "nerfing". Developers may find that a feature is exploitable, or it may use too many resources. They may simply have made an error, or corrected one, with or without knowledge of its impact on one or more players. It may be the developers' method of correcting a balance issue: an item or feature might favor a class or style of play, or it might put too much money into a game economy, or it might obsolete future content.

Sinneed (talk) 02:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * That's all original research. I consider the short version to be much less full of "opinion" than the long one. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 22:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Massive cut?
Perhaps we should just kill off everything but a stub?

As previously discussed, here and on other similar computer gaming slang, does this belong in Wikipedia at all?

Consider this for a "stub" article, with the "stub" header.

A nerf or "to nerf" in computer gaming jargon refers to a change or the act of making a change that reduces the utility or desirability of an item, encounter, area, trade-skill, ability, class, technical game feature, or any other game element.

There are a number of theories as to how the term entered the gaming jargon.

There are also many reasons given by developers for "nerfs".

Sinneed (talk) 18:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Sinneed. I don't mean to undermine your work, but I find that the article read much better before the extensive amount of edits you've made.  Also, you've added quite a bit of unsourced material to an article that was already suffering from the lack of such.  I am particularly against the addition of the "Popular Usage Section", especially without sources.

 * Perhaps I can subpage the last version of the article after your edits to your user talk page and you and I can work on what material to keep and what material to discard. ((Edit by Sinneed, under no circumstances!  I will delete it immediately.  Thanks.  Sinneed (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC))

 * On a final note, nerfing is not exclusive to World of Warcraft so we should try to stray from adding further external links (or material for that matter) that show how the term applies to the game. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Usually best to discuss before making such a massive edit.
 * Sorry Dorvaq, but perhaps you would like to improve the page, or join the discussion.
 * On a final note, reading the article carefully before commenting might be good. You may note that I *DID NOT MAKE* the WoW addition.  I make no references to any game here.  None.  I did "soften" some existing references to games, seeking a NPOV.
 * Looking forward to your edits, and hopefully discussion of them beforehand. Sinneed (talk) 23:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

---

Ignoring that sidebar, I note that the problem with sourcing online slang is that... it is online slang. This has been a concern a number of us have voiced: "Do these slang terms belong in Wiki at all?" As I have cleaned these up, I have taken the personal POV out, and presented various points of view. Sinneed (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Sinneed (talk) 23:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Finally, I again want to suggest that this article be "stubbed", with just the note of what nerf means and the header requesting the article be improved (if possible) with sourced material. Reverting to a mishmash of personal POV nerf-hate and nerf-love seems very very counterproductive: thus the article languished for months.Sinneed (talk) 22:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I'd rather it were reverted to yesterday's for now. This lame edit warring has to stop immediately in any case. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 22:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I like that idea as well. I would encourage avoiding of "lame" in a talk page. :) Sinneed (talk) 23:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The Problems
Ok, Sinneed, a couple of things before I go on with listing the issues regarding your edits. I want you to keep in mind that everything I am listing here adheres to wikipedia's policies and guidelines. I can list all of the policies that pertain to the issues as well if you want me to, but I'd rather save time/space here and assume you have read them yourself and work on the issues with the article instead.

First off, I don't have to discuss anything before making any edit regardless of how massive that edit is - my duty as an editor is to the reader; not to other editors. Yet, I was going to(did) discuss the reason why I made such an edit, as mentioned in my edit summary, and was referring to the very short timeframe you gave me to post on the talk page - 6 mins according to the timestamp. Now for someone who genuinely wishes to discuss the edits, your actions aren't very convincing.

Secondly, I never accused *you* in particular of adding the WoW entries, but the removal of them were part of my edits, which I wanted to explain on the talk page.

Now on to the problems

In your version, you went ahead and listed in the lead paragraph every game element you could think of that could be nerfed, which creates 2 problems. First, the lead should summarize the article in a concise manner and using the term "particular game element" to capture all of the elements that can be nerfed as opposed to listing them achieves just that. Secondly, by listing each element you encourage other editors passing through here to list other elements you may have missed and risk having the list get ever so longer creating listcruft, which is not prohibited per se, but is ever so annoying as a reader and doesn't belong in the lead paragraph if accepted anyway.

As with the list you created about "game elements", the section you titled "Popular usage examples" has similar problems. Every 2nd editor coming through here is going to want to add their example and we find ourselves again with listcruft, which doesn't do the article a favour. More importantly however, is that the section is completely unsourced, which *is* unacceptable as per wikipedia policy. Especially seeing as you are claiming these usage examples are "Popular".

Speaking of sources, the fact that online slang is difficult to source does not excuse the article from being sourced. We are not trying to achieve a stub here, as you put it, but a lengthy unsourced article is no better. The added injury vs. hurt theory on how the term came into usage is a particular problem. Not only is the theory unsourced, but it's borderline original research, which is also unacceptable.

Anyhow, that's all I have for now. There's more to come in the future I'm sure. — Dorvaq (talk) 14:16, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

 * "you went ahead and listed in the lead paragraph every game element you could think of" - false - opinion.
 * Anyhow, that's all I have for now. There's more to come in the future, but not from me.  Be safe.Sinneed (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "False opinion"? Ok.  I'll concede, but to the very least you expanded on a term that did not need to be expanded on in the lead. — Dorvaq (talk) 16:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * False - opinion again. Sinneed (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's not a false opinion, unless you're suggesting that wikipedia's style guideline on the lead section is also a false opinion. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is false, and yes, it is opinion, unless, of course (as seems quite clear) your opinion about the interpretation of the statements on your link is the only one that matters. While a complex meaning cannot be conveyed in a single sentence, its falsehood can be reduced with adequate detail.  Yes there is a balance.  Yes, you and I disagree about where the balance is.  Yes, *TO ME* your statement is false, and very very certainly it is opinion.Sinneed (talk) 19:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not my interpretation of the guideline, but the guideline in question. It's an opinion, yes, but one developed by consensus.  If you are not happy with that opinion, then you can take up your issues regarding whatever part of the guideline you disagree with on its talkpage. — Dorvaq (talk) 19:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How did I miss this gem? Yes, it is your interpretation of the guideline, not the guideline in question.  It's an opinion, and no, not one developed by consensus. *ANYTHING* that is not directly sourced is certainly opinion.  Your interpretation of a guideline, mine, a random wombat posting on a wireless solar-powered station in the Outback... opinion.  sinneed (talk) 20:28, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

New lead
You inherently reduce the desirability of a game element by reducing its "power effectiveness or influence..." I suggest we keep desirability and remove the other 2 points. — Dorvaq (talk) 16:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

"all nerfs affect desirability." False. Source? *kicks self for rejoining fruitless discussion* Addicted. :,( Sinneed (talk) 18:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Desirability.
 * Item - "They nerfed my Axe of Extreme Coolness! It now looks just like a rusty axe!"

Prestige. NOT desirability. THAT will go *UP*.
 * Encounter - "They nerfed The Encounter Of Extreme Uberness! Now *ANYONE* can just zone in and get keyed! And after all our work in beating the Whatsit Of Doom!"
 * Seeing as it's no longer prestigious, the "Encounter" in question is no longer as desired by those looking for prestige. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but seeing as it is doable to the other 99.999999% of the universe, its desirability will go up.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe desirability. The area may be heavily hunted for other reasons... in fact it might become MORE popular and desirable by removing (real example) mass slaughter of the entire zone by small groups of players.
 * Area - "MAN they nerfed the exp in Colossal Plains of Long Running! I killed 100 zeebaras and got like half a bubble!"
 * Regardless... desirability is affected with your example and the nerfed element in question is the amount of exp obtained from killing "zeebaras", making killing "zeebaras" less desirable. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Desirabilty - Not in all cases. The world is not you.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Desirability...maybe. But the reality is that most trade-skilling in most games is essentially an end in itself... the rewards are very occasional... in VERY general.
 * Trade-skill - "Yikes! The latest nerf to armor-making made it useless! Newbie zone loot is better!"
 * Desirability nonetheless. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Desirabilty - Not in all cases. The world is not you.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Desirability? Maybe.
 * Ability - "O NOES! They nerfed my death-touch, and now it won't work on anything more than 10 levels higher than I am!"
 * Desirability nonetheless. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Desirabilty - Not in all cases. The world is not you.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Desireability? Not in my experience. Usually this is just wounded pride.
 * Class - "After that nerf, who would want a Weezer in their raid?! A Morloc with points in Wind will outdamage them!"
 * That's just it, "your experience". When many people rush to play an overpowered class, the result of nerfing said class is less people willing to choose the class in question... desirability. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's just it, "your experience". You are not everyone.  You make false, broad, sweeping statements of absolute "ALL"... but they apply only to you and to those who agree with you.  Many many classes have not been overpowered, but were nerfed in some specific way for some specific reason... perhaps because it ruined the continuity of a progression.  This nerf affected the *CLASS* not at all... but it affected the strategy of those who used that class to bypass steps in content.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Nah. People have the same desire to log out as before. It might affect the ease of an encounter, for example... which might make it MORE desirable, if it increased the value of the reward. *shrug*
 * Technical game feature - "They nerfed the reconnect thing, and now you have to stay logged out 5 minutes if you /quit out."
 * What are you talking about, "same desire to log out"? You're going to be less willing to logout for no reason knowing that you'll have to wait 5 minutes before reconnecting... desirability. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I am talking about the /quit command being just as desirable.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Some encounter where abusing /quit might become harder... which might make the encounter more desirable.Sinneed (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Every single example you're using to refute my point still has to do with lowered desirability, so I really don't know what to tell you anymore. I'm really trying to work with you to make a better article, but you seem more interested in simply discarding for the sake of discarding and making personal attacks. If this is the type of discussion you were asking for in your edit summaries, then I guess you and I aren't discussing anymore.

I'll refrain from entertaining any point you make where I feel you're arguing for the sake of arguing, and in fact, I won't even make any edits to the article page unless I'm reverting clear vandalism, because I don't care all that much. Feel free to add/remove whatever it is you want and I'll allow you to get whatever it is you are getting out of this with another editor.

Whenever you wish to participate in a real discussion, let me know as I would be glad to hear constructive comments. — Dorvaq (talk) 19:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Ah, the key difference between us, I think. I won't refrain from entertaining any point you make, even though I feel you're arguing for the sake of arguing.  I will make edits to the article page, including removing vandalism, even though I don't care all that much.
 * Whenever you wish to participate in a real discussion, or even make "for show" statements, let me know as I would be glad to hear any comments.

Sinneed (talk) 04:01, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Recommending for deletion.
No minor improvement is being allowed. The basic problem being objected to by Thumpy is that the online jargon cannot be sourced, no improvements will be allowed unless sourced. I am again correcting the lead in.

As an alternative to deletion, I propose changing the article into a stub, containing in whatever format would somehow be acceptable, 3 items:
 * nerf is slang/jargon for a negatively perceived change to a game item
 * nerf is slang/jargon for *making* a negatively perceived change to a game item
 * nerf appears to refer to the "NERF" brand of of toys - though this is not as important, IMO, as the other 2... as it has to do with origin, rather than meaning

If anyone can source usage of nerf, it would be grand to include examples of usage, IMO.

If anyone can source reasons devs and players claim nerfs are good, that would be good, IMO.

If anyone can source reasons devs and players claim nerfs are bad, that would be good, IMO.

All comments, including those made only for effect, are quite welcome.

And, of course, there was no discussion, and no improvement. Please either stop reversing out my edits or make some kind of improvement. This edit war silliness needs to end. Reinstating the simple, and not ambiguous, use of nerf as a verb. Sinneed (talk) 04:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

 * If you think the article should be deleted, take it to WP:AFD. Otherwise, please stop repeating yourself ad infinitum on the talk page: creating a new section to repeat what you said yesterday is no helping us to discuss this issue. As for the reverting of your edits, you've been repeatedly told not to insert unsourced material into the article. Rather than spamming the talk page, try breaking your edits down into discrete parts and discussing them here individually. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Thumperward
If you are interested, you may look through the history of a number of terms like nerf, and find that there is much discussion of whether they belong in Wiki at all.

Proposing that if no unsourced changes are to be allowed, and no sourcing is possible, that the article be deleted is not a threat. It is a realistic alternative, of only 3:
 * leave the article as is
 * change it
 * kill it

I will not leave the article as it. You will not let me change it. ( at least not so far ) You will not let me kill it.

If I have missed one, please share it with me. If there is a way to source online slang, please share it with me, strictly as a courtesy, and I realize I am asking for an unearned favor.

But please, either join in or stop reversing me. This doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request.Sinneed (talk) 04:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I find it unlikely that there is not one reliable source for online gaming which makes use of the term "nerf". Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (posted and removed)sinneed (talk) 03:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Lead-in Version 1 zillion.
"In computer gaming, a nerf is a change, and "to nerf" the act of making a change, that reduces the desirability of a particular game element."

I have been informed that this needs to be different. I should hope this would be an area that an editor actually interesting in improving the lead-in might contribute.

I think the leadin needs these 3 things to convey what "a nerf" is, and what it means "to nerf" something:

 * nerf is slang/jargon for a negatively perceived change to a game item
 * nerf is slang/jargon for *making* a negatively perceived change to a game item
 * nerf appears to refer to the "NERF" brand of of toys - though this is not as important, IMO, as the other 2... as it has to do with origin, rather than meaning

Sinneed (talk) 04:59, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

": they're fun to shoot people with, but their plush, foamy dart-like qualities make them generally innocuous. "

I have some hope that no one enjoys nerfing. I have a stronger sense that this is not quite the lead-in we would hope to find if we opened a $2000.00 encyclopedia and looked up "nerf". Perhaps I am missing the need for this addition, and if so, I apologize. Sinneed (talk) 05:03, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I've made a slight edit to the introductory sentence which includes the verb without making the first clause completely meaningless ("a nerf is a change"). Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (Added and removed)sinneed (talk) 03:11, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Origins
It seems the origin of the term has been lost to most, but i was there. Dark Castle MUD circa 1992 (http://www.dcastle.org/). There was a weapon in game called the nerf assault rifle that had a special procedure to automatically cast the spell magic missle on attack. The game's imp increased the damage of magic missle to be based apon character level, which inadvertenly made the weapon vastly more powerful than the norm. The wepaon recieved a significant downgrading to such an extent the weapon was near worthless. Apon further 'rebalancing' of items in the game, the players harkened back to the original downgrading of 'the nerf'. At this time MUDs were pretty much the only games with dynamic content and thus i am fairly certain this is the true origin. Most MMORPG's to date still have identical gameplay mechanics to MUDs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.2.117.153 (talk) 09:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

 * The Nerf brand of toys, which probably includes a large number of assault rifles, is certainly much older than 1992. Your game of highly questionable significance clearly got the name of the item from the toy manufacturer, so your point is irrelevant; the name still ultimately comes from Nerf brand toys.  Even if you had proof, which seems very unlikely, I would still oppose adding anything about Dark Castle MUD to this article.  70.245.237.177 (talk) 18:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I'd go so far as to suggest that this explanation was simply made up. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:32, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

 * 'is certainly much older than 1992'.. Well, america existed before certain explorers discovered it. Perhaps we shouldn't include the names and dates about them either? Not that I really care all that much about history. And as for 'simply made up', you want proof? I was an eye witness, I'm living proof. Disprove me if you think you know it all.96.2.117.153 (talk) 09:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

 * "...disprove..." - no, that isn't needful. One must substantiate one's facts in order to add content.  This is one of the reasons I am very concerned about the sheer bulk of web/gaming jargon/slang that is being dumped into Wikipedia.  Once the article arrives, replete with error, it is very difficult to fix... reliable sources for online slang are scarce.  Thus, despite the "take your marbles and go home" cutesyness, my reasoning in arguing that these simply don't belong in a general purpose encyclopedai.   I can't really visualize a "nerf" article in an Encyclopedia Britannica.  On the "I was there" thing... while I am sympathetic... original research is Not A Good Thing in Wikipedia.  Idea: write your recollections up and see if you can interest one or more of the more reputable web sites to investigate/publish about the history.  It would please me to find some useful citations for this article, even if the overly rude Thumperward is convinced that the term existed before 1992 (but of course Thumperward can't or won't produce sources... but insists that they "must" exist).  sinneed (talk) 14:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

—

Text added to the lead-in by an anon editor: "This meaning of "nerf" entered wide usage due to an across-the-board reduction in the effectiveness of melee weapons in Ultima Online undertaken by developer "EvilJohn" in 1998. The reduced damage led players to complain that they felt like they were "fighting with nerf weapons", in reference to the NERF brand of toys."

While this is a very attractive statement, it is not sourced, and I know how difficult that is with these... but without sourcing it is just telling stories around the campfire... it is not an encyclopedia article. Sorry to kill your edit, and I hope you can find sourcing that I cannot. sinneed (talk) 21:01, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Dead link
This link died right after I added it, but now it is back. The link in the text is to the cached version, so this is a note explaining why. Protonk (talk) 17:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Sources identified in the AFD & rescue processes.

 * 1) Rubicite Breastplace Priced to Sell, a whitepaper written by tim burke (not the baseball player), a games researcher. Talks about nerfs coming down the pike and how they influence player actions.
 * 2) Terranova posts Terra Nova (blog) is a games researcher group blog on the subject of virtual worlds. The blog itself is not RS, of course, but the individual authors are (double check to see, of course)
 * 3) Raph Koster's website A dicdef, but Ralph Koster Raph Koster (helped make Star Wars Galaxies) does a lot of work in the field of virtual worlds.
 * 4) Owned: Finding a Place for Virtual World Property Rights in the Michigan State Law Review defines and explains "nerfed" in the contest of property rights.
 * 5) Designing Virtual Worlds, page 305.
 * 6) Julian Dibbell talks about it in his book, Play Money
 * 7) In the New York Times talking about player protests after a nerf in AO.

Presented (Thank You!) by Protonk (talk)

Over on the German version of this page, these additional sources are listed:
 * 1) Donna Gibbs / Kerri-Lee Krause: Cyberlines 2.0: Languages and Cultures of the Internet. James Nicholas, Albert Park (Austr.) 2006, ISBN 1-875-40842-8, S. 180
 * 2) Jessica Mulligan / Bridgette Patrovsky: Developing Online Games: An Insider's Guide. New Riders, Indianapolis (Ind.) 2003, ISBN 1-592-73000-0, S. 280-281: "Bug-Fixing versus Nerfing"

Editors who want to contribute may find this list useful. But even if not, I wanted to preserve the sources in an easy-to-find spot.

The full deletion discussion is archived (I have no idea for how long) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Nerf_(computer_gaming)_(2nd_nomination) sinneed (talk) 00:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

nerfs and what they mean in the world
In addition: The term nerf does not apply to corrections made by simple clerical error. For instance 2 new weapons are put into the game. One is a 15th level quest reward and the second is a 30th level quest reward. Upon database entry the transcriber enters the 15th level weapon with the same DPS (damage per second) as the 30th level weapon. An obviuos mistake that is not caught until the weapons have gone live. The developers are made aware of this issue and correct it. This is not a nerf. 1st - this is a classic example of a nerf. 2nd - you'll need a wp:rs to add that. Yes, lots of stuff here with no source, but just because wp:other stuff exists doesn't mean it is good stuff. Please dive in and source madly. :) It is a real challenge with these Internet jargon terms.  I have argued that they don't belong in Wikipedia because they are very difficult to source.  I am in a small minority and the consensus is to leave them in. 3rd - The lead in rests on the rest of the article... it leads in to it.  If you can find sources to add the content you appear to feel strongly about, please wp:be bold and add it to the body.  Perhaps a section called "What is and what is not a nerf".  Then, once it is in and sourced, perhaps it will merit a mention in the lead in (and you can always jsut wp:be bold and add it... but without source it won't stay...and if it is too much for the lead-in it won't stay).  But I am dubious.

Most nerfs are just this sort. Someone makes a simple error. It has minor or profound effects that are found only once the change is live. The change is reversed, and someone objects... usually multiple someones object... to the nerf.sinneed (talk) 14:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

 * The section is totally pointless anyway. You were right to remove it. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well sir or madam, I disagree strongly. It was not pointless.  It was, however, not encyclopedic, which is what I care about.  Even vandals and editors who name other's work "pointless" have a point.sinneed (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's probably "sir", and the section was...without much merit. To say that "nerfs aren't corrections to obvious errors" is both OR and wrong.  A combination like that hardly improves an article. Protonk (talk) 05:52, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, clearly I agree about the value of the edit as it was created, thus I cut it and it landed on the online equivalent of the cutting room floor. On the "sir" thing... mmmm, here we are whatever we say we are, within the rules of Wikipedia.  *shrug*sinneed (talk) 06:06, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ..:) True.  But chris is probably chris. Protonk (talk) 06:09, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Offtopicwarning! One of my favorite nerfs wasn't a nerf at all. Someone changed the lighting in a dungeon.  All the lights in the cities went out.  We jokingly accused them of nerfing light... there was so much squalling about nerfs at the time that our claim was no less reasonable than some of the others.sinneed (talk) 06:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * One of my favorites actually was an 'error' on the part of the game makers. The mosscovered twig was nerfed from being a "mainhand/offhand" weapon to "offand only" because the speed was just absurdly fast (even though the damage per hit wasn't that high).  They never thought about it and people ran around doing some absurd DPS (it wasn't called DPS then, but I forget what) until Verant noticed and changed it. Protonk (talk) 06:46, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge into the very weak article game balance - lack of discussion
I learned of this proposed merge when it was implemented. There was some discussion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Archive_62#Nerfing? Video Games Project archive "Nerfing? Section"], but it was *VERY* short, there was no proposed redirect put here, none at the game balance. If the merge target article there were not so VERY bad, I would feel better about the merge. I spoke with the merging editor about the lack of consensus at User talk:Zxcvbnm, but I did not revert the merge...I think the idea in and of itself is fine... but the target needs very VERY much work.sinneed (talk) 22:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah it does. I'm happy to see "nerfs" "buffs" and all that as player perceptions of changes to game balance, but I don't think that this article need be redirected in order to do that.  What makes them nerfs is the player perception, not the actual change to the game balance (Arguably).  At least it is what makes people write about it.  The possible texts on "game balance" are spread hither and yon, should someone want to look for sources in places other than blogs or game reviews.  the topic is too nebulous for me to want to jump in, too.
 * Anyways, if the editors who want to merge the content drop on by, my pitch is that they summarize the sub-articles rather than redirect them. I'm off to undo the "grinding" redirect, too. Protonk (talk) 22:52, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops, it was "gimp". Not much in the old article.  I'll leave it be as a redirect. Protonk (talk) 22:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the pointer to the discussion. I don't check in on WT:VG with any frequency.  Guess I should.  I can see the point that was being tossed around (about buff/nerf being two sides of the same coin).  I'm hesitant to make an article that says that without a source to go along with it.  "Nerfs" clearly get more attention than "buffs" (unless they are buffing someone else's class...which they always are :)...) from players and the sourcing reflects this. Protonk (talk) 23:05, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I had never been to the VG project ever... I looked at the contributions of the redirecting editor and found the section, since the editor had stated that there was consensus and AGF. But it was a *REALLY* short discussion.
 * Nerf. Yes, I agree, entirely perception of the "speaker."  Not all nerfs are for balance in any real sense of the word.  They can be just to preserve a story line...or to restrict the speed with which players tire of an expansion...or just "by god because that was the way it was intended to be"... or because something was too easy... or too hard.
 * Nerf/Buff... no source... thus it isn't in the Buff article. I'd have added it if I could find one.  Annoyingly difficult to source the online slang.sinneed (talk) 04:54, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Bad sources
The claim that the name was first used in Ultima Online was not properly sourced (and the idea that this was actually the first use is ludicrous). The first reference says that its first use in online games was on Ultima Online, not that its first use whatsoever was in Ultima Online. The New York Times reference is only a reference for the origin of the word, not for its first use. Ken Arromdee (talk) 15:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You got a bit too extravagant with the editorial hatchet. The sources speak to the usage.  They can stay and are good sources.  I agree with some of the content cut, and will cut it to the talk page.sinneed (talk) 17:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, you restored them. Sorry, was looking at the changes in order. I am good with it, but your title is now misleading. :)sinneed (talk) 17:09, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Proposed move
... to Nerf (Video gaming) - an editor argues that the term "video gaming" is broader than computer gaming.

As the meaning of computer gaming has slowly come to mean desktop computer, rather than computer-in-general, this argument may have merit. However, computer gaming includes computer gaming for the blind (rare), and all other computer-based games, whether PC, Mac, mainframe, pager, handheld.

I oppose this move, somewhat weakly. - Sinneed  14:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

anon game designer: I also oppose this move, but for different reasons. Though I cannot dig up sources for it atm of course, in usage on forums and in life I've very commonly heard "nerf" as the "weakening" noun and "nerfing" verb be applied to non-computer games. I've heard tons of people talk about "nerfing" colors or cards in Magic: The Gathering, for one example, and that is no computer or video game. And it flies beyond the scope of gaming sometimes. I wouldn't be surprised to see "Nerf" become as ubiquitous a noun in this meaning as "Spam". Honestly though, this all reeks of "Wikipedia is not a dictionary". Why does this article need to exist? It should fall under a page on "Game Design" and the art of "Balancing", which ties in with other concepts like the double rule or risks/rewards or game theory, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.245.16.248 (talk) 04:17, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

 * As a note, WP:NCVG explicitly says, never use "(computer game)" or "(computer gaming)" for any disambig even if the article is exclusively about a PC-related topic.. Therefore the page is being moved. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

POV
OK, if a source s cites a specific use, it doesn't mean there isn't a general use. I am not going to remove this, but I will povflag it. It doesn't belong in the lead at all, and if it needs discussion in the body, wording to the effect that it is commonly used in MMORPGS might be OK... but it is right there in the source, and I don't see the need.- Sinneed  00:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This is slang, and it is used, for example in reference to "Call of Duty". The specificity needs to go.  It is personal opinion.-  Sinneed  00:45, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You know that you're doing OR by referencing that, right? Just checking.  You're not wrong, except by the standards that you're always holding me to, so I'll rewrite it, but it's kinda tiresome.  I had written in less restrictive language than the sources and you dinged me for that, you'll recall. —chaos5023 (talk) 02:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "You know that you're doing OR by referencing that, right? Just checking." - No, I am not.  And this is a *talk page*. wp:talk page guidelines - not an article page.
 * "You're not wrong, except by the standards that you're always holding me to..." - Not at all.
 * ", so I'll rewrite it, but it's kinda tiresome." - No need, I'll remove it, say, tomorrow.
 * "I had written in less restrictive language than the sources and you dinged me for that, you'll recall." - Yes. And I correctly removed it.
 * I'll remove this again very soon: It does not belong in the lead, wp:LEAD.  It is wp:SYNTH - that is not what the source says.  You have inserted your opinion.  Stop now.-  Sinneed  02:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It is what the source says. "To nerf means to adjust the tangible effects of a virtual world element downward." —chaos5023 (talk) 02:41, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly, and no, that wasn't the opinion you had inserted into the lead. The current text looks good to me.  I am dubious of the "buff" bit in the lead, but I defer to you.-  Sinneed  02:44, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * O I see, you justmoved the opinion down. I CNflagged it.  I'll kill it in a few days if it isn't sourced.  It is not clear to me that that source speaks to any other usage.-  Sinneed  02:47, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "mostly commonly"- is what I plan to remove. I also expect to restore the nerf bit to the lead, and the origin (leaving it in the body as well).-  Sinneed  03:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Suppose we used a source at poker (game) that referred to "Tim had 3 aces and 2 eights: a full house, aces over eights." and someone placed in the body "When players named Tim, specifically, have 3 aces and 2 eights, it is called a full house." This would, quite clearly, be incorrect, and it would not be OR to mention on the talk page that everyone who has 3 aces and 2 eights has a full house, and to change the text to "For example, when a player has 3 aces and 2 eights, it is called a full house, aces over eights." - Sinneed  02:40, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * In that situation, we could cite any book on poker's rules for the clarification, instead of having to ourselves go to an online poker forum and find an example of somebody who is not named Tim being spoken of as having a full house, which is an example of what the words "original research" mean. —chaos5023 (talk) 03:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

What is a synonym of Nerf?
deteriorate/deterioration, debuff, worsening, weakening, impairment/impair/impairing... 124.106.142.94 (talk) 04:30, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Nerfing (gaming)


text: User talk:142.227.188.60

title: User talk:142.227.188.60


text:
Robert Leckie

Robert Leckie may refer to:
 * Robert Leckie (RCAF officer) (1890–1975), Canadian air marshal
 * Robert Leckie (author) (1920–2001), American author of military history
 * Robert Leckie (footballer) (1846–1887), Scottish footballer
 * Robert Gilmour Leckie (1833–1914), Canadian mining engineer

title: Robert Leckie