text:
Talk:Social Democratic Party of Austria

Rename the article?
Compare Social Democratic Party for a better entry heading. User:Wetman
 * (i.e. Social Democratic Party (Austria) I think he means) Mr. Jones 16:27, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Percentage of votes
The articles on the other Austrian parties gave their percentage of the vote in 1999 and 2001. Could someone put them in for this article too, please? Mr. Jones 16:27, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

edits in table
I had to revert edits by User:84.114.201.91 and User:Dave it and revert to the version of 11:47, September 18, 2006. The table was completely in the wrong format with strange pieces of information, probably done by users with little English knowledge, I will clean the whole thing up and try to pick the good bits and integrate them into the article. Gryffindor 14:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

An instant classic...
I changed the sentence "The new regulation required all SPÖ candidates to be at least 40% female.", because I think a single candidate does not have to be 40% female, but rather 40% of all candidates. Blur4760 00:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The SPÖ is also socialist
There is a group, called "Der Funke", in the SPÖ is socialist. That should be added to "Political Ideology".--Dave it 10:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, that's true.--84.114.201.91 10:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Reactions???--Dave it 10:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Until 1994 a similar group (Offensief) operated within the Dutch PvdA, they did not affect the course much and they weren't officially recognized and were very small (less than 100 members). If they are similar I wouldn't include them in the template, but maybe just mention them in the text somewhere. C mon 16:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Moreover Socialism is one of the leading ideologies, especaially democrtaic socialism. --84.114.201.91 09:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Look at the SJÖ, they were very important for the party after the legislative elections (Interview => www.diepresse.com).--84.114.201.91 16:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Honestly I don't see your arguement could you please explain the nature of these organizations, shortly so every one, also people who aren't burried deeply in SPO politics can understand your argument. C mon 16:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

SJÖ=Socialist Youth, a marxist organisation

For example: the SJÖ is important for the way the party goes, one week before the legislative elections they made a request not to go in a coalition with the ÖVP and the whole SPÖ agreed (100%)(1,read).And there are a lot more of requests. Another example is: Josef Cap, a leading person said, that he wouldn't accept a right-wing-coalition, because the socialist youth wouldn't want that(2,read).--84.114.201.91 09:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

 * A political ideology differs from a political strategy. Not cooperating with the OVP is a strategic choice and not a sign of ideology. C mon 10:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in this point you are right, but this is only an example.Another example is, that the SJÖ made another reject against racism in the SPÖ and it was also agreed.--84.114.201.91 12:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Racism is not the same as socialism, you can be racist and socialist and non-socialist and non-racist. C mon 22:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know, but I only wanted to show how they influence the party.t has nothing to do with racism. --84.114.201.91 05:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

 * So the presumed socialist organization has influenced the SPO on two points: a non-socialist ideological point and a non-ideological point. I am not convinced of your argument.

Surely, anti-racism is a sign of socialism.--84.114.201.91 20:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The SPÖ rejects neoliberalism (look at: 1)
Could someone possibly add that?If not, then I'll do. --84.114.201.91 16:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Views, Issues and Ideals
I think this article is in a rather desperate need of actually informing the reader what views the SPÖ actually hold, so they can discern if and in what way the party differs from its Third Way counterparts.

I have decided to write a little about this subject with the hope to be able to end this lacune. Any criticism would be welcomed.

 * The electoral programme of the Social Democratic Party of Austria identifies freedom, equality, justice and solidarity as the key values of social democracy. For the party, freedom not only means the absence of dictatorship, but also the selfdetermination created by the accessibility of information, social security and education which helps people to become independent.

I'll continue this later. Darth Viller (talk) 15:17, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit war
You want to make a change to a stable page. Your change has been objected to. Per WP:BRD the onus of argument is on you.

Here's where we're standing right now:
 * 1) The stable version of the article includes the party flag.
 * 2) You claim that the party flag is somehow invalid or something and is an inappropriate thing to include here.
 * 3) You have shown no source, reliable or other, to support this claim.
 * 4) The stable version of the article, on the other hand, is supported by 4 reliable sources. One of them is an official party web site. Another includes a photo of the party using the flag on an official party rally poster... very prominently, about 4 or 5 months ago.

You've been reprimanded for edit warring just a few days ago, are you sure you want a second helping? You WILL need a reliable source that says inclusion of the flag is wrong. Until you have one, that's just your personal opinion and original research. Damvile (talk) 12:26, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

As a token of good faith, I waited for well over an hour before reverting you again, in case you were going to post something to the talk page after all. Welp, you weren't. So I'm repeating my invitation: please join me here on the talk page and explain why you think the material should be removed. Damvile (talk) 13:59, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Damvile - Discussions regarding a specific article and its content should be done on the article's talk page (here) so that other editors can easily find relevant discussions involving it and participate.  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   12:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

 * I don't understand. Having a discussion on the talk page (here) is what I was trying to do. I posted a comment, summarizing the situation (as I see it) as a starting point. I made sure I pinged so he would notice. I also made sure I pointed to my attempt to start a disccusion on the talk page in an edit comment. After Colonestarrice's next revert, I posted a second comment on the talk page, pinging him again, and repeated the invitation to come to the talk page in a second edit summary. I also asked advice from an uninvolved third user  who has experience dealing with edit warring and personal attacks from Colonestarrice. (There were several candidates. I picked one of them at random.) I sincerely believe I have demonstrated willingness to be proactive in the talk page department. Damvile (talk) 15:41, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Damvile - I appreciate you for summarizing your attempts to communicate with Colonestarrice and discuss the dispute with him. I agree that you've made reasonable attempts to ping and notify Colonestarrice of this discussion and allow him time to respond here. However, I'll note that your initial messages to him here contain phrases that don't provide a positive atmosphere for the discussion you started, and probably won't motivate him to respond to you. Your statements such as, "You've been reprimanded for edit warring just a few days ago, are you sure you want a second helping? You WILL need a reliable source that says inclusion of the flag is wrong" and "I waited for well over an hour before reverting you again, in case you were going to post something to the talk page after all. Welp, you weren't", probably come off to him as patronizing and an attempt to scold him and demand things. When you leave messages or comments toward other editors like that, it doesn't really motivate them to want to reply or talk to you - especially when you start discussions with messages like that from the very start. If someone did that to you, would you feel that it was positive and include and feel motivated to respond? :-)

 * I would perhaps update this discussion and ask him nicely if he could provide what you're looking for and offer to help explain or show him the relevant that will explain and provide instructions if he's confused about anything. Communicate in a welcoming, respectful, and positive manner and focus the discussion on the content rather than his character and his past warnings - and he might be more willing to respond to you :-). Either way, you and Colonestarrice need to work things out before this article becomes unprotected. I, nor the community, wants to see more Edit warring between the two of you and the way to resolve this is to discuss the matter. I hope you two discuss things, work things out, and that this dispute comes to a positive consensus and conclusion :-)  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   17:47, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Hi Oshwah: You quote some edit summaries that you say were my initial messages to him, but they weren't. My initial messages to Colonestarrice ( ping ) in the context of this article are here and here. The first one is actively conciliatory ("I'm not convinced either") and the second is simply neutral. Besides, Colonestarrice and me have interacted in the context of several other articles before.
 * You think that my later messages may have come across as patronizing and as me demanding things. I do admit my tone was no longer excessively affectionate at that point, but you have to see these edit summaries in context. Colonestarrice has a looooong history of insisting on edits that are unsupported by any sources and that fly in the face of the sources already in the article. Polite and reasoned corrections are met with stubborn reverts, sometimes with abrasiveness, occasionally with weird insinuations regarding people's character. In some instances, hostile content forks of templates and articles have been made, although most of them have since been deleted so you'd have to do some digging. Several editors have tried to reason with Colonestarrice, usually very nicely (at least at first) and sometimes also veeeeery patiently. They all failed. If my messages look like I demand things, I guess to some degree it's because I am: I request that the persistent disruptive editing end.
 * As for patronizing, I honestly don't think I am. It's patronizing to treat someone as inexpert either performatively or for no reason. But this is not what's happening here. It's not patronizing to point out mechanisms and conventions to someone who genuinely needs to be aware of them and who has proven he isn't.
 * There is yet another edit war developing on yet another article even now.
 * For the record, I'm still not even sure myself that the flag should be in the article. I haven't seen an arrow flag in the wild in ages. It's just that the sources we are currently collectively aware of strongly suggest the flag should stay. Maybe there are reliable sources that clearly demonstrate the flag is obsolete and I'm just too stupid to find them! Maybe if someone cleverer than me looked at this issue it would be resolved in an instant! Is it really my fault nobody is even trying? Damvile (talk) 01:29, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Damvile, and thanks for responding and for explaining the series of events for me. I noted the edits, but didn't' look closely at the edit summaries. When it comes to dispute resolution and edit warring or other disputes, edit summaries do not count as attempts to properly communicate with another editor and discuss or work disputes out between one another. Edit summaries exist for the purpose of allowing editors to explain their changes, what was changed, and why they changed it (hence the name "edit summary" - it's a summary of your edit). Editors will sometimes add edit summaries aimed toward other editors, and doing so isn't against any policy in itself. However, once someone reverts your edits and as soon as it starts to become repeated, you're expected to begin communicating by starting a discussion and the edits should stop at that point so that you two can discuss things and come to an agreement. So, for the purposes of proper communication, your message at the beginning of this discussion was you initial message toward Colonestarrice and your first attempt to directly communicate with them using the proper channels and forms, and Colonestarrice hasn't properly attempted to communicate with you directly at all about this. I appreciate your acknowledgment about your communication here, and I hope that you understand where I'm coming from when I tried to explain how Colonestarrice might have felt when reading them... if it were you, would you be jumping for joy and excited to participate in a discussion where someone is pointing fingers at them from the get-go? I wouldn't :-).  ~Oshwah~  (talk)  (contribs)   02:29, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Hi Oshwah – with respect, this position seems legalistic to me. I know that official dispute resolution proceedings operate under the legal fiction that edit summaries don't exist, as though editors didn't use edit summaries for debating things all the time. But why would that matter here? The messages you say we should pretend were my initial messages just really weren't. We know Colonestarrice noticed the earlier messages in my edit summaries because he replied to them in his own edit summaries. The reason Colonestarrice has been uncooperative is not that my initial messages to him were too unfriendly because my actual initial messages were not. In addition, I've left a message to him on a talk page at least once before. He ignored that talk page just like he ignored this one. You can't blame me for using edit summaries to message Colonestarrice when edit summaries are the only thing I know he will read!
 * Maybe I'm misunderstanding you very badly, but I get the impression you're taking a position of bothsiderism. I don't understand why. I'm trying to work within established conventions and to do what leads to good articles – find sources, work from sources, don't remove well-sourced material from stable articles with no explanation and no debate. Colonestarrice just happily mutilates away, disingenuously tries to pass off his mutilated version as "the status quo", and proclaims it is beneath him to discuss his edits. How are these two approaches equivalent?
 * I apologize for taking up so much of your time but I believe the issue is bigger than just the party flag question. To me, the process seems broken. Damvile (talk) 14:07, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I apologize if I'm coming off as a "wikiattorney"; I'm just trying to explain how this works from the other side of things. The reason that I was writing my responses in a "bothsiderism" manner was to try and work with the both of you in an objective and impartial manner so that you two could work things out. My goal isn't to determine whose right or wrong here; my goal is to keep disruption off of the article, work with you both, and help you two to discuss the dispute at-hand and come to an agreement. However, it's become clear that this isn't going to happen. Unfortunately, it sounds like we're at the point where no collaboration is going to occur between the two of you until the protection expires, and that the dispute is only going to just continue. For all purposes of this discussion, it appears that you're adding content that cites a number of different references and he's removing what you're adding in opposition. So long as your content is well referenced and by reliable sources, I don't see a problem with your attempts to expand the article - after all, that's the primary goal here: to build an encyclopedia. If no valid reason can be provided by Colonstarrice as to why the content doesn't belong, it should stay. What makes things even more difficult is the fact that half of the edit summaries all refer to what appears to be another discussion with someone on the German Wikipedia, as well as edit summaries written in German. I unfortunately cannot read German so really I can't help you there. The next thing to do in order to get this issue taken care of is to call in a few pairs of eyes and have them add to this discussion and state which revision they believe should be live. I'm going to ping some helpful users to see if they can't take a look. I also just received a ping from Colonestarrice on my user talk page, and apparently whomever you're talking to on the German Wikipedia does not believe that the flag you've been adding is their current one. It looks like we need a wider audience to participate in order to come to fair and complete closure. I'll see what I can do :-)  ~Oshwah~  (talk)  (contribs)   15:07, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, I agree that it's not cool to see Colonestarrice repeatedly reverting your edits while instructing you to start a discussion here so that things can be worked out, only to have him/her completely ignore you here after you do what was asked.  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   15:10, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Oshwah: I promise this is my last comment here. Just for the record, I never added any content whatsoever to this article. I only added sources in support of content that was already here long before I got involved. The only reason I ever got involved was that Colonestarrice removed the flag even though he knew (from a comment by Klofáč, here) that the inclusion of the flag was supported by reliable sources. Colonestarrice simply pretended (here) that Klofáč's comment didn't exist. This struck me as problematic. The edit where I called him out on the misrepresentation and added Klofáč's sources to the article (diff) was my first ever edit here.
 * If you want to call in a few new pairs of eyes, one expert on the Austrian party landscape would be Kramler, but he probably wouldn't want to get involved because he's had his own heated disagreements with Colonestarrice and they resulted in strings of revenge edits on half the articles in his contributions list. I previously avoided pinging Kramler because we've interacted before (in unrelated matters) and I didn't want to look like I was canvassing. Damvile (talk) 18:54, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

 * FYI - I am not involved here in any way. Damvile asked for advice on my talk page (the entire discussion is here) and I limited it to generic P&G guidance only. I don't know Damvile, and avoided this page after his post as I didn't want him to run afoul of WP:CANVAS. I have no opinion on this dispute. I do know of Colonstarrice from other articles, I have found him to be a problematic editor who is difficult to collaborate with. I prefer to avoid him if I can. Hopefully, this will be my only post here. Good luck, hope you guys can resolve this. - wolf 17:45, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Section break
Ding ding ding, the sources cited for the party flag don't impress me very much: If it was up to me, the party flag would be removed from the infobox until someone finds a better source. It's more important that strong sources are cited for every controversial addition than that every article contains every possible piece of information right now. Besides, the flag is pretty much trivia anyway. One of the problems with Colonestarrice's approach to Wikipedia is his tendency to clutter up articles with inappropriate irrelevancies; why oppose him where he is doing the opposite.
 * All sources can be read to imply that the SPÖ has a party flag, but none of them actually says it does.
 * The says the three arrows have not been an important part of SPÖ PR since the 1950s.
 * The shows a picture of a May Day poster holding the flag. There is reason to suspect this poster could be deliberately anachronistic. A May Day poster would be the exact place where you'd try to evoke the glory days of the past. If I had to design a May Day poster that tried to remind people of the time when Vienna was a sea of red once a year, the arrow flag would be an element I would consider using.
 * The page also shows a picture of a borough party office flying the arrow flag. This is obviously very suggestive, but these people are one of hundreds of neighborhood party chapters, not the party.
 * The shows three party critters holding an arrow flag, but this picture too is in the context of May Day, i.e. this use of the flag too could easily be anachronistic. In fact these guys could be trolling. Two of them are described not as party but party youth officials. The article is about a labor law dispute. The vibe I'm getting is that this is a bunch of iconoclasts (purists, dissidents, whatever) demanding that the party snap out of its torpor and go fight for the little people like it used to. In other words, there is a chance the flag is in this picture not because it's current but precisely because it's not.

I'm not commenting on any other aspect of this debacle. Kramler (talk) 11:07, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Kramler: Reasonable criticisms. Assume for sake of argument I admit my sources are weak. Rather than 4 sources to 0 sources it's now 4 weak sources to 0 sources. There is still more support for keeping the flag than for removing it, if not as much more support as I used to think. Damvile (talk) 20:41, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Kramler is right on this. The strongest of the references indicates that the Three Arrows was phased out in the 1950s. Notably there are some links showing recent use of the symbol. However, all of these indications are recent of the Vienna party branch. It appears that the symbol is being revived to some extent, but I'm far from convinced that it would be back as official party symbol. --Soman (talk) 21:03, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Damvile: No, sorry, bad approach. A source is "weak" if there are doubts about how verifiable, conscientious, or accurate it is, or about how well it has aged. A source that simply does not say what it is cited as saying is not "weak," it is void. Four times nothing is nothing. Your original points were that a change that has been challenged needs to be discussed and that an editor should not be able force a questionable edit merely through outpersisting the opposition in a revert war. Both points have been made. The attempt to revert war the flag out of the article has failed. The discussion has been had. The lesson here is not that you were wrong to make these points, the lesson is that if Colonestarrice had attacked the sources instead of the BRD, the flag would have been gone two weeks ago. Cash yourself in and relax. Kramler (talk) 22:55, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess much of this is probably true. I'm changing my vote from keep to remove. Damvile (talk) 01:17, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

 * User:Kramler: Hello, these are very bad sources, I prefer those original from German Wikipedia, which documents real status de-facto. Factical use is the one used mainly in Wikipedia articles, for example there is no other way to know symbols of historical political parties than by real usage.   --Klofáč (talk) 02:08, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Klofáč: the has already been mentioned a few times; Soman and me have already explained why it doesn't convince us. As for the other three links, don't you think they have the same issue? They show some party members using the flag – May Day marchers in one case, the Vienna regional party org the others. (Note that the picture in the SN article is really a picture of a picture, and the outer picture features Michael Häupl. So both inner and outer picture would have been taken in Vienna.) Neither the SN article nor the Freedom Party hit piece nor the Youtube video makes any explicit statement about the official standing of the flag. It's all just vague insinuation. Kramler (talk) 14:18, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Name
This article slightly contradicts the German-language version of the same article. This one states that the party was originally known as "Sozialdemokratische Arbeiterpartei Österreichs" (SDAPÖ). That one states that the party was previously known as "Sozialdemokratische Arbeiterpartei (SDAP)" and "Sozialdemokratische Arbeiterpartei Deutschösterreichs (SDAPDÖ)" (and doesn't mention SDAPÖ). Of course, perhaps it had all three names, but neither article makes that clear... 20:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Platform and ideology??
Can someone please write a section about the SPÖ's political ideology?? That is woefully missing from this article (but present on the ÖVP article). I have no credentials to write such information unfortunately QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Social Democratic Party of Austria


text:
Talk:Audley's Cross

Untitled
If there were an entry for James Touchet, Lord Audley himself, then the cross might be mentioned in a little note at the very end. Who will ever find this entry? User:Wetman

There is a mention of the cross on Audley's page User:mash909.

Untitled
Am I really confused, or is 1949 490 years after 1459, not 500 years? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.239.86.51 (talk • contribs) 14 July 2007 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Audley's Cross


text:
Talk:Divisions of the world in Islam

Ibn Taymiyyah
Ibn Taymiyyah has even contradicted the classical view since he did not call Mardin dar ul-harb because muslims could live there free. So I see his mentioning politically motivated since he is the favourite scholar of the jihadis. We should delete this.

Ali Gomaa & al-Quaradawi
I removed [the Domain of Disbelief where the battle for the domination of Islam should be waged] from al-Qaradawi quote. As far as I know Ali Gomaa & al-Quardawai this isn't what he meant by Dar Al-Harb. The concept of continues jihad against the non-Muslim world doesn't exist in Modern Islam. Now Dar al-Hard is used to describe countries which are in a state of war with a Muslim country. Also Islam forbid killing an unarmed person. That's of course as far as I know--Mustafaahmedhussien (talk) 20:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Article should be deleted
The division this article talks about is not found in Islam (based on quran and hadiths). This division is not accepted among the majority of Muslims nor majority of Muslims ever heard of it. This concept of division was created by some. If there was an article written for every concept one small group of people might hold, this wikipedia will go bankrupt for providing space.Tarikur (talk) 01:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I disagree. Wikipedia is an educational resourse and is a starting point for looking for further information. The article should not be deleted but it should be made clear in the introductory paragraphs that the divisions in Islam are a concept, but of which are based on Qur'an and Sunnah, which is plainly evident upon inspection. Mainly, the concept of the world being divided into two camps, that of the believers (Muslims or Mumin) and that of the unbelievers. (Kuffar). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthur Warrington Thomas (talk • contribs)

 * I agree. This article depends upon political POV in regards to what Islam should be and how the muslims should behave. Faro0485 (talk) 20:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree. These divisions exist, but as an independent article don't make much sense- it should be under Islam, or the World of Islam, but not under this title. Divonbriesen (talk) 01:08, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I disagree. This notion is mentioned in Islamic sources and widely discussed by classical Muslim scholarship.

It is recorded by Ibn Sa'd in an authentic chain (isnad) on the authority of Salamah bin Nufayl al-Hadrami who narrates from Jubayr bin Nufayr, who narrates from al-Walid bin Abd al Rahman al-Jarashi, who narrates from Muhammad bin Muhajir al-Ansari, who narrates from of al-Walīd bin Muslim, that the Prophet (saw) said: "The centre of Dar al-Islam is in Sham." (Ibn Sa'd, al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, 1997, Vol. 7, pp. 427–428) أَلاَ إِنَّ عُقْرَ دَارِ الإسلام الشَّامُ "The worthiest of the believers' abode (land) is as-Sham" (Tabarani) Al-Sham is the Levant region incorporating Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. Ref: https://www.islamiqate.com/3338/did-the-prophet-saw-use-the-terms-dar-al-islam-or-dar-al-harb — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.96.136 (talk) 04:34, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Article should not be automatic redirect from Dar al-Islam
Dar al-Islam is a muslim organization in New Mexico, USA- there should be a disambiguation page prior to this one. There is no easy way to link to that site, and to the Tanzanian city Darussalam with a redirect from Dar al-Islam directly to here - since the name changes.

2 parts
As far as I understand the issue, basing on the Qur'an the Islamic faith generally divides the world into 2 parts: (1) dar al-Islam (dwelling of Islam) and (2) dar al-harb (dwelling of the sword, war). This vision is common, as far as I understand, to all branches of Islam, although for natural reasons, it is endorsed more thoroughly among the militant Islamists, in particular the Wahhabi division of Islam, which is predominant in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States (Bin-Laden belongs to this school), and the Shi'ite islam practiced in Iran (and endorsed by its proxy Hizballah). Naturally, this view is also shared by the fundamentalist organizations (Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad) in the Palestinian Authority (and indeed to an extent, by any Muslim close enough to the religion). It takes only to attend to Arafat's own words comparing his Oslo Accords with the peace Muhammad made (and unilaterally broke) with the Kuraish tribe to understand the deep religious motives in the Arab hate towards Jews and Israel. --Uriyan (from Talk:Anti-Semitism) This (above)is an overly simplistic analysis. As far as Palestinians, there are many organizations which have nothing to do with Islam fighting Israeli rule. "Arab's religious motives" must be a joke. What about Palestinian Christians and Druze. Indeed, secular Palestinian organizations had more support until the intifada when Islamic organizations came to the forefront. You can't honestly be criticizing Arabs for fighting western imperialism in the form of "Israel" and in turn using that to prove the hostility of Dar-al-Islam to Dar-al-Harb. Fkh82 20:24, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

If someone can, check "The Lucifer Principle" by Howard Bloom. He has a discussion on this and references to more discussion on the subject --InfectiousAdm (also affects other subjects: dar al-Harb)

I think this article has been vandalized (compare December 2005 version to January 2006). World has the right to see Islam in its true light.

dar al-sulh
Can anyone clarify the status of dar al-sulh (House of Treaty)? I believe it was coined before Ottoman times, so may predate dar al-ahd. Any info?

86.133.23.227 13:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Divisions of the world in Islam
Moved the page to new title to encompass all the sub-divisions of the world in Islamic perspective.--CltFn 11:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Article

 * "Classification of Lands in the Islamic Law and Its Technical Terms." A. N. Poliak. The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. 57, No. 1. (Jan., 1940), pp. 50-62.

That article is useful... also for talking about sulh. For anyone who has access. We also might want to change the name of this article to something more accepted. gren グレン 14:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

There are far too many specialized terms in this article with neither links or explanations. For a non-Arab speaking non-Muslim it is virtually impossible to understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.67.183 (talk) 18:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Wtf?
Why does this article not make clear that it's talking about the days of the caliphates, not modern Islam? It seems to imply that Islamic governments are officially at war with the entire rest of the world. Is this a 1911 Britannica copy-paste, or something? < el eland / talk  edits > 21:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

This article has no basis for Muslims. This is written within a modern political context, with an Orientalist Western perspective on Islam. This article is not objective at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.201.188 (talk) 08:43, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Foreign Source
Hi people, I'm planning on making a few changes in this article. Would it be OK if I used a German Source? It's a book by Yasar Nuri Ozturk. --يس (talk) 13:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll take the silence as a "yes"... --يس (talk) 14:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Dar al-Islam
I have edited the mistakes made in the paragraph:
 * First of all, Dar al-Islam literally means "House/Abode of Islam; Dar as-Salam means "House/Abode of Peace".
 * Secondly, the term Dar al-Islam does not appear in the narrations of the prophet at all.   The cited narration does not include that term and also does not have a reference - just like the other citation. That's why I have removed both of them.
 * The two requirements for a country to be part of the Dar al-Islam are according to the founder of this concept, Abu Hanifa, the following two:
 * 1) The Muslims must be able to enjoy peace and security with and within this country.
 * 2) It has common frontiers with some Muslim countries.
 * The following sentence also does not have any reference: "Some modern Muslim scholars maintain that the labeling of a country or place as dar al-Islam or dar al-harb revolves around the question of religious security. This means that if a Muslim practices Islam freely in his place of abode, then he will be considered as living in a dar al-Islam, even if he happens to live in a secular or non-Islamic country. Traditional definitions tend to focus on which religion holds ultimate authority." It is obvious, that it is from here, so I cited it correctly.
 * I also added the following:
 * Today, most Islamic scholars agree upon a classification into three. These three categories are:

 * 1) Dar Al-Islam: The abode of Islam; the Muslim nation.
 * 2) Dar Al-Harb: The abode of war; those that have declared war against the Muslim nation.
 * 3) Dar Al-‘Ahd: The abode of covenant; the countries that have diplomatic agreements and covenants with Muslim nations.

--يس (talk) 15:50, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Excellent points! I would like to see this article expanded beyond solely political divisions and incorporate historical concepts such as the seven climes and regions such as the Land of the Gog and Magog.  A historical map illustrating such concepts would also be pertinent.Jemiljan (talk) 03:33, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Dar al-Harb
In accordance to the edits made in dar al-Islam, I also edited this passage. --يس (talk) 15:56, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

This is really problematic, somehow one of the most problematic and dangerous ideas of "Dar-el Harb" does not explained here, with "miraculously" all the links explaining it also not working. Wikipedia is far from being objective here- this notion of "Dar el Harb" is one of the most clear explanations to many of the Muslims activity and fights around the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.156.199 (talk) 15:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Lead section
This article badly needs a lead section to summarise (at least) what "divisions of the world" means in this context. I don't have the expertise to write one, so I've tagged instead. Also, I moved the text that was above the table of contents - such a disclaimer should be in a separate section, not prefacing the whole article. The section name I used ("Scriptural references") is probably entirely wrong for an Islam related article, but I'm going to plead ignorance on that one as well - please rename it to something more appropriate. Orpheus (talk) 17:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Gomaa / Qardawi revisited
I previously removed the passages sourced to MEMRI about these two individuals. MEMRI itself isn't really a reliable source (neither is egypt-facts.org for that matter), and if it's citing another source then we should insert the original into the article. Another aspect is that these are two solitary opinions of the same skew, whereas there is little indication given as to the singificance or prevalence of this view, or the general view held by authorities as a whole. So there is an issue of potential undue weight being granted to one perspective. Qardawi and Gomma themselves aren't really big names in this field, you won't find them being cited in any academic discourse of the topic. On the basis of sourcing and balance, then, I intend to remove these two passages until reliable sources can be found which also assert the significance of these opinions in standard legal discourse. And I'm also re-removing the "Islamic" epithet, as the term is more a legal categorisation coined by jurists, as opposed to being coined by Islamic texts themselves. Regards,  ITAQALLAH   23:47, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Abu Hanifa and origin
Does anyone have any reliable secondary source attributing the origin of the term to Abu Hanifa? -- Raziman T V's Alternate account (Talk - Contribs) 14:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Sourcing
This is an awfully long and significant article for only five sources. Can somebody dig up some more? MezzoMezzo (talk) 09:07, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Dar ul Harb
I am removing the line `Dar ul Harb is a "house" or "abode" of war because this is a land of potential conquest, whose denizens are not to be allowed to live in peace until they submit to Islamic law and by implication embrace Islamic peace.` This line has no credeble reference is is taken directly taken from site which is full of bigotry and anti-Islamic articles.

Arabic words are either masculine or feminine ...
... does anybody know whether dār [دار] is masculine / feminine? --79.251.122.24 (talk) 02:28, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Wiktionary is your friend. (Apparently it was originally feminine in Classical Arabic but has evolved to take masculine usage…?) —Wiki Wikardo 18:48, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

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Dar al-Kufr - House of Unbelief?
In Kwame Appiah's book The Lies That Bind he refers to the traditional division being into Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Kufr, the latter being the House of Unbelief. He makes no mention of Dar al-Harb. Does anyone know anything about Da al-Kufr? Is it an old concept with more legitmate claim to being the name for non-Muslim lands than Dar al-Harb, or is this a fringe idea? If its known but a minority interpretation, it could be included. If its totally fringe then it should not. He cites a book called War and Peace in the Law of Islam by Majid Khadduri, however when I check the reference on page 52 of that book on Google Books, it mentions Dar al-Harb and makes no mentioin of Dar al-Kufr! LastDodo (talk) 10:01, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Removal of sourced content
,, one or both of you may want to revert or try to achieve consensus over this revert. I don't have enough knowledge about whether Azam is a reliable source.-Ganeemath (talk) 12:45, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

 * I don't either Kowal2701 (talk) 12:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The source @Kuffaar used doesn't even mention terrorising the Kafirs... until only Muslims or those who submit to Islam remain. It's SYNTH at best and POV pushing at worse. — 🧀The Cheesedealer talk  08:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The source says, "Offensive Jihad: Where the Kuffar are not gathering to fight the Muslims, the fighting becomes Fard Kifaya with the minimum requirement of appointing believers to guard the borders and the sending of an army at least once a year to terrorise the Enemies of Allah. It is the duty of the Imam to assemble and send out an Army unit into the land of War once or twice every year. Moreover, it is the responsibility of the Muslim population to assist him, and if he does not send an army, he is in sin. And the Ulama have mentioned that this type of Jihad is for maintaining the payment of Jizya. The Scholars of the principles of religion have also said, "Jihad is Da'wah with a force and is obligatory to perform with all available capabilities, until there remains only Muslims or people who submit to Islam." Defensive Jihad: This is expelling the Kuffar from our land and it is Fard Ayn, a compulsory duty upon all. -Ganeemath (talk) 14:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What is the best way to condense that and add it to this article?-Ganeemath (talk) 14:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Removal_of_sourced_content you have typed, "I'm very sorry, silly me did misread it.", so please propose and add a better sentence to this article.-Ganeemath (talk) 14:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think first we should discuss if it is WP:DUE or not, then discuss if it belongs to the lede or not, then discuss if it should be attributed.
 * I believe - if fellow users think it is due - that it should be something like "According to the Yusuf Azzam, Muslims are supposed to launch an offensive on a yearly basis against non-Muslim lands" "According to the Yusuf Azzam, in the absence of any attack by non-Muslims, a portion of Muslims should be kept to guard borders and to launch yearly offensive campaign toward non-Muslim lands for deterrence"
 * TBH, I don't think it's due since Yusuf Azzam is not generally regarded as a scholar (even his wikipedia article doesn't portray him as such AFAIK) thus I don't see his opinion being relevant among the multitude of opinions regarding this matter by prominent scholars across the Islamic history. But if y'all do, I strongly oppose it being in the lede without attribution. — 🧀The Cheesedealer talk  14:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think you clicked and read the source provided by . Abdullah Azzam is quoting from some other source, he is not the author of that text (if you click and open the source and then on Section 1, at the bottom, you can read the sources used by Abdulla Azzam).-Ganeemath (talk) 15:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * One more sentence can be added: According to M. M. Ayoub, "Jihad may be regarded as a sixth fundamental obligation (faridah) incumbent on every Muslim when social and religious reform is gravely hampered or the community's integrity is threatened. In a situation where the entire Muslim ummah is in danger, jihad becomes an absolute obligation (fard 'ayn). Otherwise it is a limited obligation (fard kifayah), incumbent upon those who are directly involved. These rules apply to armed struggle, or the jihad of the sword. "- Ganeemath (talk) 16:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Many others have also written the same thing as Azzam and Ayoub - read this, this and this.-Ganeemath (talk) 03:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I have added sources/references for this sentence - It is a sin to not send an army of Muslims to terrorise the Kuffar, once or twice a year until only Muslims or those who submit to Islam remain, in offensive jihad; expelling Kuffar from Muslim lands is defensive jihad.                        -Ganeemath (talk) 07:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC) Ganeemath (talk) 07:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ActivelyDisinterested, you are the only experienced editor among the people pinged (all of you have responded or objected to this earlier), so please let us know what all sources can be used (others can also comment).-Ganeemath (talk) 07:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Above, I have quoted what Abdullah Azzam and M.M.Ayoub have written, in full, for all to read.-Ganeemath (talk) 08:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

@Ganeemath, it isn't a case of whether your statement has been said by other people before. This looks like a distinction between theory and practice, and a case of POV pushing. Frankly, this is an extremist view, as what is being conveyed is essentially "Muslims ought to terrorise non-Muslims, and expel them from their lands". This is not what the majority of Muslims do in practice, and by including this sentence in this article, it promotes the idea that this is what they should do. It does not belong in the article, regardless of the degree of truth it bears. IntGrah (talk) 10:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

 * ￼Wikipedia says that we can add a sentence if it is backed by reliable sources. I have provided 25 of them. Even if we use just the first two sources, it should be enough or else we must start the dispute resolution process. The link you posted has this text, Some adherents of a religion might object to a critical historical treatment of their own faith because in their view such analysis discriminates against their religious beliefs. Their point of view can be mentioned if it can be documented by relevant, reliable sources, yet note there is no contradiction. NPOV policy means Wikipedia editors ought to try to write sentences like this: "Certain Frisbeetarianists (such as the Rev. Goodcatch) believe This and That and consider those to have been tenets of Frisbeetarianism from its earliest days. Certain sects who call themselves Ultimate Frisbeetarianists—influenced by the findings of modern historians and archaeologists (such as Dr. Investigate's textual analysis and Prof. Iconoclast's carbon-dating work)—still believe This, but no longer believe That, and instead believe Something Else." We can therefore, add that Modern Muslims do not follow this after the sentence added originally by . -Ganeemath (talk) 10:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The comically large amount of sources doesn't mean all of them are necessarily reliable, nor does it make it WP:DUE. Also, very few of those sources actually deal with the specific statement proposed; they are just articles around the topic. Also, Abdullah Azzam is not a reliable source. Neither is MEMRI. To quote the Wikipedia article:
 * Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature, aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes. It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.
 * Even if you are able to reduce the sources to a select few independent, reliable sources, it does not belong in the lede. It would have to be reworded to clearly state that this is a WP:FRINGE theory. But first and foremost, a consensus must be reached other whether to include it in the first place. WP:Islam has already been notified here, which is a preferable route to seek further input. IntGrah (talk) 10:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I may have some experience of Wikipedia, but this isn't a subject I have expert knowledge of. Two things jump out at me from a general perspective. Usually if someone has 25 references it's because they don't have a single strong sources to back up their content. WP:OVERCITE has some good advice about such situations. The other is that the language used and POV aren't very encyclopedic. The issue is that even if true (again not my area of expertise) stating it in this way doesn't provide any context. This is obviously not seen as true, or at least not something carried out, in the modern world. I wouldn't support the addition in it's current form. -- LCU A ctively D isinterested  «@» °∆t° 12:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I propose adding this: According to their interpretation of the hadith, Abdullah Azzam and Mahmoud M. Ayoub have written that it is a sin to not send an army of Muslims to terrorise the Kuffar, once or twice a year, until only Muslims or those who submit to Islam remain, in offensive jihad; expelling Kuffar from Muslim lands is defensive jihad. However, Sayyid Qutb in his book, "Milestones" claims that Muslims have given this up. What do you say?-Ganeemath (talk) 07:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Your two sentences present the two views as approximately equal, which is against WP:FRINGE. Also, isn't Qutb's point the fact that "Muslims have given this up, but they really ought to start doing this stuff again"? There is a HUGE bias here. IntGrah (talk) 11:06, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * If you are shooting down all my proposals, maybe you should propose something.-Ganeemath (talk) 17:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Divisions of the world in Islam


text:
Wolfgang Sawallisch

Wolfgang Sawallisch (26 August 1923 – 22 February 2013) was a German conductor and pianist.

Biography
Wolfgang Sawallisch was born in Munich, the son of Maria and Wilhelm Sawallisch. His father was director of the Hamburg-Bremer-Feuerversicherung insurance company in the city. Wolfgang's brother Werner was five years older. He passed his Abitur in 1942 at the Wittelsbacher-Gymnasium in Munich.

At the age of five, he was already playing the piano and by the time he was ten, he had decided he wanted to become a concert pianist. As a child, he was greatly influenced by Richard Strauss and Hans Knappertsbusch. In his musical education he was generously supported by his family, especially by his widowed mother, who became active again because of him, and also by his older brother. At first, he studied composition and piano privately. This enabled him to prepare for his career as a pianist and conductor before and after the Second World War without financial worries. His professional development was interrupted by his military service and captivity: during the war he served in the Wehrmacht, in France and Italy, and in the closing stages of the war was detained at a British POW camp in Italy. After returning home to Munich, he studied with Joseph Haas and, after one semester, passed his state examination at the Staatliche Musikhochschule in Munich in 1946. He took conducting lessons with Hans Rosbaud and Igor Markevitch. He found his first job at the Stadttheater Augsburg. During this time he married the singer Mechthild Schmid (1921–1998), daughter of the organ builder Magnus Schmid (1889–1964) from Pemmering, whom he had already met in his youth in Munich. She had a great influence on him throughout their life together.

Through the adoption of her son, born in 1944, from his wife's first marriage, he founded his own family. Mechthild renounced her own career as a singer in favour of her husband's career; on the one hand she suffered from standing in the shadow of the successful man, on the other hand she saw her function as his manager. After 46 years of marriage she died at the age of 77 due to her thyroid cancer.

The Wolfgang Sawallisch Foundation was founded in Grassau, in Bavaria in 2003 and comprises a music school. At a benefit concert of the Bavarian State Orchestra in Grassau on 2 February 2013 under the baton of Kent Nagano, Sawallisch was seen in public for the last time. He gave the opera world his last press interview for the January 2013 issue. His son Jörg died in January 2013, just one month before his adoptive father. Sawallisch lived for over 50 years in Grassau in Chiemgau, Upper Bavaria, where he was also buried.

The villa in Grassau, where Wolfgang Sawallisch had lived for decades, was taken over by the Sawallisch Foundation in 2014 and is occasionally used for concerts by the Grassau Music School.

Career
He began his career at the opera house in Augsburg in 1947. At first, he held the position of répétiteur and later became the principal conductor. In 1949, he was awarded the first prize at the Geneva International Music Competition where he accompanied the violinist Gerhard Seitz. In 1952–53 he was the personal assistant to Igor Markevitch at the International Summer Academy of the Mozarteum in Salzburg, Austria.

He was only 30 when he conducted the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, where Herbert Karajan was then the principal conductor. When he debuted at the Bayreuth Festspielhaus conducting Tristan und Isolde in 1957, he was the youngest conductor ever to appear there.

After turning down offers to join the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra and the New York Metropolitan Opera, Sawallisch became Principal Conductor of the Vienna Symphony in 1960, a post he held for ten years. In 1961, he started conducting the Philharmonisches Staatsorchester Hamburg and did this for ten years as well. From 1970 to 1980, he was music director of the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande.

From 1971 to 1992, he was music director of the Bavarian State Opera, and for several years from 1983, he was concurrently its general manager. For thirty years, he was closely associated with musical events in Munich. Here he conducted practically all of the major Richard Strauss operas, Salome being the sole exception. He also conducted 32 complete cycles of Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen, and is credited with nearly 1200 opera performances in the city alone.

In 1966, Eugene Ormandy, the music director of the Philadelphia Orchestra from 1936 to 1980, had invited Sawallisch to visit him. Sawallisch subsequently made several recordings there, and in 1993 succeeded Riccardo Muti as music director of the Philadelphia Orchestra, where he remained until 2003. From 2003 until his death in 2013, he held the title of Conductor Laureate with the orchestra. He was also Honorary Conductor Laureate of the NHK Symphony Orchestra, Tokyo and for over 30 years he appeared with the orchestra annually in Tokyo. He was the recipient of a Suntory Music Award in 1993.

Later life
After his tenure with the Philadelphia Orchestra, Sawallisch returned for guest-conducting appearances in Philadelphia and at Carnegie Hall. However, ill health related to orthostatic hypotension prevented Sawallisch from conducting in subsequent years. In an article in The Philadelphia Inquirer of 27 August 2006, Sawallisch himself stated his retirement from the concert podium:

"'It can happen without announcement that my blood pressure is too low. This instability gives me the necessity to finish my career after 57 years of concert and opera conducting.'"

Earlier, in 1988, he had published his autobiography "Im Interesse der Deutlichkeit" (For the Sake of Clarity) in which he had expounded his views on the role of a conductor.

Affiliations
Sawallisch was an honorary member of The Robert Schumann Society. In 2003, he helped to establish a music school in Bavaria, naming the school the Wolfgang Sawallisch Stiftung (Wolfgang Sawallisch Foundation). He himself continued to live on his estate in Grassau in retirement.

Death
Sawallisch and his wife Mechthild were married for 46 years until her death on 24 December 1998. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI), a family friend, officiated at her Requiem Mass. She had a son, Jörg, from her previous marriage, whom Sawallisch had adopted. Jörg died in January 2013.

Sawallisch died at his home in Grassau on 22 February 2013, aged 89.

Prominent interpretations
Sawallisch has been acclaimed as an interpreter of the music of Richard Strauss. As a pianist, he accompanied a number of prominent singers in lieder, including Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf and Dame Margaret Price. He has also been acclaimed for his interpretations of the symphonies of Robert Schumann and Anton Bruckner.

Sawallisch also recorded, as piano accompanist, Franz Schubert's Winterreise and Robert Schumann's Liederkreis and other songs with Thomas Hampson. One of his most celebrated live concert appearances as a pianist was on 11 February 1994 in Philadelphia, when Sawallisch substituted for the Philadelphia Orchestra at an all-Wagner concert on the night that a severe snow storm prevented much of the orchestra from arriving at the Academy of Music.

Recording highlights
Sawallisch's recordings for EMI include highly regarded issues of Richard Strauss's Capriccio and the four symphonies of Robert Schumann with the Staatskapelle Dresden.

He made a quadraphonic stereo album (probably the only one ever made) of Mozart's The Magic Flute in 1973 for EMI, starring Peter Schreier as Tamino, Anneliese Rothenberger as Pamina, Walter Berry as Papageno, Edda Moser as the Queen of the Night, and Kurt Moll as Sarastro. The Queen of the Night aria from this recording was selected by NASA in 1977 to be included on the Voyager Golden Record, a gold-plated copper record that was sent into space on the Voyager space craft. The record contained sounds and images which had been chosen as examples of the diversity of life and culture on Earth.

Other recordings by Sawallisch (EMI, Orfeo, Philips, and Sony) include:

 * Ludwig van Beethoven's nine Symphonies with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam
 * Johannes Brahms's Ein deutsches Requiem with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
 * Johannes Brahms's four Symphonies with the London Philharmonic Orchestra
 * Johannes Brahms's four Symphonies with the Wiener Symphoniker
 * Anton Bruckner's Symphonies 1, 4, 5, 6 & 9
 * Antonín Dvořák's Requiem, and Stabat Mater, both with the Czech Philharmonic
 * Antonín Dvořák's Symphonies Nos. 7–9 and Cello Concerto with the Philadelphia Orchestra
 * Felix Mendelssohn's Symphony No. 2 with the Berlin Philharmonic and Düsseldorf Chorus
 * Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's The Magic Flute with Francisco Araiza, Lucia Popp and Kurt Moll (videoregistration)
 * Franz Schubert's nine Symphonies with the Staatskapelle Dresden; Sacred Choral Works with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
 * Franz Schubert's Masses in A flat major D 678, C major D 452 and in E flat major D 950 as well as Tantum Ergo D 962 and Offertorium D 963 with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
 * Leopold Stokowski Orchestral Transcriptions with The Philadelphia Orchestra
 * Richard Strauss's Intermezzo, Elektra, Friedenstag, Die Frau ohne Schatten, and Arabella with the Bavarian State Opera
 * Richard Strauss's Ein Heldenleben, Symphonia domestica, and Also sprach Zarathustra with The Philadelphia Orchestra
 * Richard Strauss's Horn Concertos, with Dennis Brain and the Philharmonia Orchestra
 * Giuseppe Verdi's Macbeth (live recording, Salzburg Festival)
 * Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen, Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot with the Bavarian State Opera; Der fliegende Holländer (Bayreuth Festival and Bavarian State Orchestra, the latter filmed) and Tristan und Isolde, Tannhäuser and Lohengrin (all Bayreuth Festival, the latter two officially released)
 * Richard Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder with Marjana Lipovsek and The Philadelphia Orchestra
 * Carl Maria von Weber's Overtures with the Philharmonia Orchestra
 * Carl Maria von Weber's two Symphonies with the Symphony Orchestra of the Bavarian Radio

His final concerts and recording project in Philadelphia were focused on the music of Robert Schumann and was released on The Philadelphia Orchestra's own recording label in 2003.

title: Wolfgang Sawallisch


text:
Europe (band)

Europe is a Swedish rock band formed in Upplands Väsby in 1979, by lead vocalist Joey Tempest, guitarist John Norum, bassist Peter Olsson, and drummer Tony Reno. They obtained a major breakthrough in Sweden in 1982 by winning the televised competition "Rock-SM" (Swedish Rock Championships); it was the first time this competition was held, and Europe became a larger success than the competition itself.

Since their formation, Europe has released eleven studio albums, three live albums, three compilations and twenty-four music videos. Europe's current lineup comprises Tempest, Norum, bassist John Levén, keyboardist Mic Michaeli, and drummer Ian Haugland.

Europe rose to international fame in the 1980s with their third album, 1986's The Final Countdown. , Europe has sold 10 million albums worldwide. The band has had two top 20 albums on the Billboard 200 chart (The Final Countdown and Out of This World) and three top 30 singles on the Billboard Hot 100 chart ("The Final Countdown", "Rock the Night" and "Carrie", which reached number 3 on the Billboard Hot 100).

Europe went on hiatus in 1992, reunited temporarily for a one-off performance in Stockholm on New Year's Eve 1999 and announced an official reunion in 2003. Since then the band has released six albums, Start from the Dark (2004), Secret Society (2006), Last Look at Eden (2009), Bag of Bones (2012), War of Kings (2015) and Walk the Earth (2017).

Europe gained new attention in the US after being featured in a GEICO cable television commercial campaign during 2015–2016.

The band is mainly influenced by Whitesnake, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Led Zeppelin, Thin Lizzy, UFO and Michael Schenker Group.

Europe and Wings of Tomorrow (1979–1984)
The first incarnation of the band was named Force and came together in 1979, in Upplands Väsby, Stockholm, and was integrated by vocalist Joey Tempest, guitarist John Norum, bass guitarist Peter Olsson, and drummer Tony Reno. "I remember when we started the band Force we were playing covers in the rehearsal room, because we just wanted to learn our instruments, like all bands," Tempest said, "Then one day I said maybe we should do our own stuff. Nobody had any ideas, so I brought mine into the rehearsal room, and that is when we started writing our own stuff."

The band sent several demos to record companies, but were told that in order to be published they had to cut their hair and sing in Swedish. Two years later, Olsson left the band and was replaced by John Levén. Just a couple of months later, Levén joined Yngwie Malmsteen's band Rising Force, and Malmsteen's former bassist, Marcel Jacob, joined Force. This only lasted for three months, though; Levén apparently had issues with Malmsteen, so he and Jacob traded places again.

In 1982, Tempest's girlfriend entered Force in the Swedish rock talent contest Rock-SM. Competing against 4000 bands, they won the contest thanks to two songs, "In the Future to Come" and "The King Will Return". The reward was a record deal with Hot Records. Tempest won the individual award for Best Lead Singer, and Norum won the award for Best Guitarist. Just before the contest, Force changed their name to Europe. Tempest got the name from the Made in Europe album by Deep Purple.

The self-titled debut album was released the following year, and sold well both in Sweden and Japan. The album charted at number 8 in the band's home country and the single "Seven Doors Hotel" became a Top 10 hit in Japan.

The second album Wings of Tomorrow was released one year later. The album got interest from CBS Records who offered them an international contract in 1985. "I think one of the most important albums for the band was Wings of Tomorrow," Tempest said, "We were learning how to write songs and John started playing some really cool stuff on the guitar. We became a better band and that was a good period for the band." Keyboardist Mic Michaeli was soon recruited to play in live concerts, and became an official member of the band shortly after. At the same time, Tony Reno was fired because of his lack of motivation and alleged slacking off on rehearsals. Bassist Peter Olsson also claims that Reno was replaced on the albums by a drum machine. His replacement was Ian Haugland.

The Final Countdown (1985–1987)
In 1985 Europe recorded the soundtrack for the film On the Loose, which gave them the hit "Rock the Night". Several months later Joey Tempest was asked to write a song for the charity project Swedish Metal Aid. He wrote "Give a Helping Hand", which would feature the biggest stars of Swedish rock and metal. The income from the sales of the single, which was produced by Easy Action guitarist Kee Marcello, was donated to the starving people of Ethiopia.

In September 1985, Europe was approached by an executive from Epic Records. They helped Europe start the recording of its next album with Journey producer Kevin Elson. The result was The Final Countdown. Released on 26 May 1986, the album gave the band its international breakthrough, was certified Triple Platinum in the USA and reached number 8 on the Billboard 200 chart. The title track, which was based on a keyboard riff composed by Tempest as early as 1981–82, was released as the first single and became a worldwide success, peaking at number 1 in 25 countries, such as the UK, France, Spain, and Germany. The hit "Rock the Night" was in the top 10 charts in European countries. The power ballad "Carrie" peaked at number 3 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. "Cherokee" was the other single released.

Not satisfied with the album's keyboard-dominated production nor the band's commercialized image, John Norum decided to leave Europe in October 1986 to pursue a solo career. "I didn't really like the direction the band was going in," Norum said, "We became this teeny-bopper, bubblegum band and I hated that whole image, the spandex, poodle-rock type of thing. I was more into the heavier, guitar-oriented stuff and it seemed like the keyboards were taking over more and more, and we were becoming more commercial. So I decided to leave. I just wanted to move on and do something else."

Kee Marcello was asked to replace him, and after some consideration, he decided to join the band. Marcello joined the band at its commercial peak.

Three singles from The Final Countdown reaching the US Top 30. The following year included successful tours through Europe and the USA.

Out of This World and Prisoners in Paradise (1988–1992)
The follow-up to The Final Countdown was entitled Out of This World and was released in 1988. The biggest hit from the album was "Superstitious" which peaked at number 31 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number 9 on the Mainstream Rock Tracks. "Superstitious" would be the last Europe song to chart in the USA. The album was certified platinum in the States and peaked at number 19 on the Billboard 200 chart. More touring followed, including an American tour with Def Leppard and a festival gig at the National Bowl in Milton Keynes, England with Bon Jovi, Skid Row and Vixen.

In September 1989, Europe did a gig at the Whisky a Go Go club in West Hollywood, California, under the pseudonym Le Baron Boys. That name would later be used as a title for a much-circulated Europe bootleg, which contained demo recordings from 1989 to 1990. Two years later, the album Prisoners in Paradise was released, but received limited media attention due to the "boom" of the grunge movement, started by Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam. Although the sales were low compared to previous albums, the single "I'll Cry for You" managed to hit number 28 on the UK charts. On New Year's Eve 1991, Europe kicked off a new tour with a show at the Tokyo Dome, in which Tesla, Thunder and Metallica also performed. The show was called "Final Countdown '91".

After ten years of living, recording, and touring together, Europe decided to take a break at the end of the 1992 tour. "I remember in the tour bus afterwards we were talking about where the whole thing was going and I think at the time the consensus of the band was we really felt ready for a break," Tempest said, "We felt that it was time to put some roots down and I was really into the idea of making my own solo album." In that time, Tempest, Norum and Marcello released solo albums whilst the other members participated in several different projects and bands. In return, Europe was dropped from Epic Records.

Reunion and Start from the Dark (2003–2005)
The band members started to discuss the possibility of a Europe reunion in 1998. "Mic and Ian came over to see me in Ireland," Tempest said, "Then whilst we were there, John Norum called from LA, and we were like 'Yes, maybe now is the right time to get things started again'." For the 2000 millennium celebrations, Europe was asked to do a concert in Stockholm on New Year's Eve 1999. That would be Europe's first and, to date, only concert with both of their lead guitarists, since both John Norum and Kee Marcello had accepted the offer to play that evening with the rest of the group. They played "Rock the Night" and "The Final Countdown".

Over the years, there were several reunion rumors, and on 2 October 2003 it was made official: Europe announced plans for a new album and world tour. The band then switched back to The Final Countdown line-up, with John Norum as the only lead guitarist. "There was no doubt that we wanted John back, and John wanted to get back," Tempest said, "For me it was important to get that spark going again that we had before." Kee Marcello claimed that he was too busy with his own projects. "I told them I didn't want to participate in a [new] studio album because musically, I want to go in a different kind of direction than the music Europe stands for," Marcello said, "Then we talked for a while about doing a six-piece tour – it didn't turn out that way because of different reasons."

The songwriting for a new album, Start from the Dark, began early in 2003. "It was just a matter of moving forward and writing songs for the new album," Tempest said, "That was always our intention. We thought that if we were gonna make a comeback, we wanted to do it properly, and that meant we wanted to write and record some new songs, a new album." For the recording of Start from the Dark, the band decided to work with producer Kevin Elson, who had also produced The Final Countdown. "We could either go with a younger producer, or we could go with someone that we knew, someone experienced who is on the same wavelength as the band," Tempest said, "So in the end we decided that Kevin would be the perfect choice."

In the summer of 2004, Europe went on a festival tour through the European continent. The concert setlists included the old hits, but also introduced the title track from Start from the Dark. The album was released on 22 September 2004, the same day that John Norum became a father. Start from the Dark featured a more modern sound compared to Europe's previous albums. "We wanted to be doing something at least that was a little bit relevant now; bit of a dry mix, detuned a bit," Tempest said, "So we felt like we didn't want to do an 1980s album per se, we just wanted to start like a fresh band really." Eventually, the album sold in excess of 600,000 copies worldwide.

Secret Society and Last Look at Eden (2006–2010)
Europe released its seventh album, Secret Society on 26 October 2006. "We think it's one of the strongest albums that Europe has ever done," Tempest said, "There is definitely some more melodic stuff on this one. Start from the Dark was very raw and made a statement, which is cool but for us it felt like a debut album in a way, so we wanted to branch out a bit on this one and take it to new levels."

On 26 January 2008, Europe did a semi-acoustic live concert at Nalen in Stockholm, calling the event Almost Unplugged. The band was accompanied by a string quartet and played reworked versions of its own songs, as well as cover versions of songs by bands that have influenced Europe's sound throughout the years – Pink Floyd, UFO, Led Zeppelin and Thin Lizzy. The show was broadcast live over the Internet on Europe's official website. It was released on CD on 17 September 2008 and on DVD on 19 August 2009.

On 23 July 2008, Europe did a co-headlining concert with Whitesnake in Padua, Italy. During Whitesnake's performance of their encore "Still of the Night", Joey Tempest joined David Coverdale on stage for the last chorus. In August 2008 Europe was the opening act for Deep Purple for two concerts in Sweden, in Linköping on 8 August and Ystad on 9 August. John Norum joined Deep Purple on stage in Ystad for a performance of "Smoke on the Water".

On 21 July 2009, bass guitarist and former member of Force, Marcel Jacob, committed suicide. He was 45 years old.

Europe's eighth studio album, Last Look at Eden, was released on 9 September 2009. The title track was released as a single in June. The band has described it as a modern retro rock album. "This time, we're taking some new directions with our songs, and we're exploring different styles," they stated, "There is a definite classic rock vibe on some of the tracks... a tip of the hat to groovin', funkin' 1970s rock songs - but ones we have bought into the here and now." The second single, "New Love in Town", was released as a digital download on 3 September 2009.

Bag of Bones and War of Kings (2011–2016)
On 6 August 2011, Europe headlined the closing ceremonies of the 22nd World Scout Jamboree in Rinkaby, Sweden before an audience of 40,061 Scouts and Guides which included King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden and Queen Silvia of Sweden.

On 12 July 2011, Europe confirmed that Kevin Shirley would produce their ninth studio album. The recording sessions started on 3 October 2011. On 24 January 2012 the band announced the album title, Bag of Bones. The album was released on 18 April 2012 in Japan by Victor Entertainment and on 25 April in Sweden by Gain Music Entertainment. "Bag of Bones" debuted at number 2 on the Swedish album chart on 4 May 2012 and was certified Gold in Sweden on 12 July 2012.

The band played at the Sweden Rock Festival in 2013, with their performance recorded for a 30th anniversary double CD, DVD and Blu-ray Disc, which was released in October 2013.

In 2014, Europe celebrated the 30th anniversary of their second studio album "Wings Of Tomorrow". They performed the entire "Wings Of Tomorrow" album on several shows, including in Sweden.

Europe's tenth studio album, War of Kings was released on 2 March 2015 by UDR Records. It was produced by Dave Cobb, producer for bands such as Rival Sons. This was followed in March 2015 by a 14-date tour of the UK co-headlining with Black Star Riders, supported by The Amorettes.

Europe participated in a major cable television GEICO advertising campaign which started airing September 2015 in the US; in a television commercial, they are featured singing "The Final Countdown" to the background of an office break room, as a microwave oven cooks a burrito.

Europe released the War Of Kings Special Edition together with Live Performance From Wacken Open Air Festival which was performed on 29 July 2015. The digital version was released on 27 November 2015 by UDR Records and the Blu-ray & DVD version released in early 2016.

In November 2016, Europe announced the 30th Final Countdown Anniversary Tour to celebrate the 30th anniversary of their top selling album "The Final Countdown". In this tour, they performed the entire "The Final Countdown" album and the entire "War Of Kings" album in every concert. They also filmed the concert performed in Roundhouse, London on 12 November 2016 and released it on 21 July 2017 via Blu-ray, DVD & iTunes Digital Download.

Walk the Earth (2017–present)
In mid-2017, Europe announced their eleventh studio album, titled Walk the Earth. The album was released on 20 October via CD with bonus DVD and digital download.

In 2023 they announced their 40th anniversary tour titled "time capsule" touring all over Europe, the UK and Asia. The tour started on 21 September 2023 in Mérida Spain and concluded on 4 February 2024 in Taipei Taiwan.

Musical style and influences
The band is mainly influenced by Whitesnake, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Led Zeppelin, Thin Lizzy, UFO and Michael Schenker Group.

Band members
Current members
 * Joey Tempest – lead vocals, occasional acoustic and rhythm guitar (1979–1992, 1999, 2003–present), keyboards, piano (1979–1984)
 * John Norum – lead guitar, backing vocals (1979–1986, 1999, 2003–present)
 * John Levén - bass, backing, vocals (1981-1992, 1999, 2003–present)
 * Mic Michaeli – keyboards, piano, keytar, backing vocals, occasional guitars (1984–1992, 1999, 2003–present)
 * Ian Haugland – drums, percussion, snare drum, backing vocals (1984–1992, 1999, 2003–present)

Former members
 * Tony Reno – drums, percussion (1979–1984)
 * Peter Olsson – bass, backing vocals (1979–1981)
 * Marcel Jacob – bass, backing vocals (1981, died 2009)
 * Kee Marcello – lead guitar, backing vocals (1986–1992, 1999)

Discography
Studio albums
 * Europe (1983)
 * Wings of Tomorrow (1984)
 * The Final Countdown (1986)
 * Out of This World (1988)
 * Prisoners in Paradise (1991)
 * Start from the Dark (2004)
 * Secret Society (2006)
 * Last Look at Eden (2009)
 * Bag of Bones (2012)
 * War of Kings (2015)
 * Walk the Earth (2017)

title: Europe (band)


text:
SS (disambiguation)

SS is an abbreviation for Schutzstaffel (Protection Squadron), a paramilitary organisation in Nazi Germany.

SS, Ss, or similar may also refer to:

Places

 * American Samoa, former two-letter NATO code
 * Guangdong Experimental High School (Sheng Shi or Saang Sat), China
 * Province of Sassari, Italy (vehicle plate code)
 * South Sudan (ISO 3166-1 code SS)
 * SS postcode area, UK, around Southend-on-Sea
 * San Sebastián, Spanish city

Arts, entertainment, and media

 * SS (band), an early Japanese hardcore punk band
 * SS (manga), a Japanese comic 2000-2003
 * SS Entertainment, a Korean entertainment company
 * S.S., for Sosthenes Smith, H. G. Wells pseudonym for story A Vision of the Past
 * SS, the production code for the 1968 Doctor Who serial The Wheel in Space

Language

 * Ss (digraph) used in Pinyin
 * ß or ss, a German-language ligature
 * switch-reference in linguistics
 * Scilicet, used as a section sign
 * sensu stricto (in the strict sense) in Latin
 * Swazi language (ISO 639-1 code "ss")

Science and technology

 * Stainless steel, sometimes marked SS
 * Suspended solids and settleable solids, in water

Biology and medicine

 * (+)-sabinene synthase, an enzyme
 * Serotonin syndrome, due to some serotonergic medications
 * Sjögren's syndrome, an autoimmune disease
 * Sweet's syndrome or acute febrile neutrophilic dermatosis

Computing

 * .ss, top-level domain country code for South Sudan
 * Screenshot, digital image showing contents of a computer display
 * Slave select line on a computer data bus
 * SS register in x86 processor
 * Super speed USB, or USB 3.0
 * ss, in the Unix iproute2 collection

Meteorology

 * Subtropical storm, a category of subtropical cyclone.

Sports

 * Sareen Sports Industries, India
 * Shortstop, a fielding position in baseball and softball
 * Special stage (rallying)
 * Strong safety, a position in American and Canadian football

Transportation

 * Corsair International (IATA airline code SS)
 * Maatschappij tot Exploitatie van Staatsspoorwegen, a Dutch railroad
 * Sand Springs Railway in Oklahoma, US, reporting mark
 * Staatsspoorwegen, a Dutch East Indies railroad
 * Stockholms Spårvägar, Swedish transport companies

Ships

 * Ship prefix for steamboat
 * Ship prefix for steamship
 * Submarine, by US Navy hull classification

Vehicles

 * Chevrolet SS, a sports sedan
 * Chevrolet SS (concept car), a concept car
 * SS Cars Ltd, Jaguar from 1945
 * SS class blimp, for anti-submarine warfare
 * Super Sport (Chevrolet), performance option
 * SS (New York City Subway service), a former designation for the shuttles of the New York City Subway
 * Eagle SS, a kit car

Other uses

 * Collar of Esses, a form of livery collar formerly known as a "Collar of SS"
 * Safety stock, hedge against stockouts
 * Social security
 * Sea Scout
 * Sanctioned Suicide, an internet forum for suicide discussion
 * Society of the Priests of Saint Sulpice, post-nominal
 * United States Secret Service (founded in 1865)
 * Waffen-SS, a combat unit (1933-1945) related to the Schutzstaffel
 * Shiv Sena, a political party in India
 * Saints

title: SS (disambiguation)


text: User talk:205.126.63.15

title: User talk:205.126.63.15


text:
Kevin Ayers

Kevin Ayers (16 August 1944 – 18 February 2013) was an English singer-songwriter who was active in the English psychedelic music movement. Ayers was a founding member of the psychedelic band Soft Machine in the mid-1960s, and was closely associated with the Canterbury scene. He recorded a series of albums as a solo artist and over the years worked with Brian Eno, Syd Barrett, Bridget St John, John Cale, Elton John, Robert Wyatt, Andy Summers, Mike Oldfield, Nico and Ollie Halsall, among others. After living for many years in Deià, Mallorca, he returned to the United Kingdom in the mid-1990s before moving to the south of France. His last album, The Unfairground, was released in 2007. The British rock journalist Nick Kent wrote: "Kevin Ayers and Syd Barrett were the two most important people in British pop music. Everything that came after came from them."

Early life
Ayers was born in Herne Bay, Kent, the son of BBC producer Rowan Ayers. Following his parents' divorce and his mother's subsequent marriage to a British civil servant, Ayers spent most of his childhood in Malaya. The tropical climate and unpressured lifestyle had an impact, and one of the frustrating and endearing aspects of Ayers's career is that every time he seemed on the point of success, he would depart for some sunny spot where good wine and food were easily found.

Ayers returned to England at the age of 12. In his early college years he took up with the burgeoning musicians' scene in the Canterbury area. He was quickly drafted into the Wilde Flowers, a band that featured Robert Wyatt and Hugh Hopper, as well as future members of Caravan. Ayers stated in interviews that the primary reason he was asked to join was that he probably had the longest hair. However, this prompted him to start writing songs and singing.

Soft Machine
Ayers and Wyatt left the Wilde Flowers, and eventually joined keyboardist Mike Ratledge and guitarist Daevid Allen to form Soft Machine. Ayers switched to bass (and later both guitar and bass following Allen's departure from that group) and shared vocals with the drummer Robert Wyatt. The group's sound contrasted between Ayers's baritone and Wyatt's tenor singing, plus a mix of rock and jazz. The band often shared stages (particularly at the UFO Club) with Pink Floyd. They released their debut single "Love Makes Sweet Music" / "Feelin' Reelin' Squeelin" in February 1967, making it one of the first recordings from the new British psychedelic movement. Their debut album, The Soft Machine, was recorded in the US for ABC/Probe and released in 1968. It is considered a classic of the genre.

1970–1976
After an extensive tour of the United States opening for the Jimi Hendrix Experience, a weary Ayers sold his white Fender Jazz Bass to Noel Redding and retreated to the beaches of Ibiza in Spain with Daevid Allen to recuperate. While there, Ayers went on a songwriting binge that resulted in the songs that would make up his first album, Joy of a Toy. The album was one of the first released on the new Harvest label, alongside Pink Floyd's Ummagumma. Joy of a Toy established Ayers as a unique talent with music that varied from the circus march of the title cut, to the pastoral "Girl on a Swing", and the ominous "Oleh Oleh Bandu Bandong", based on a Malay folksong. Ayers's colleagues from Soft Machine backed him on one track, "Song for Insane Times", and on some cuts with Rob Tait, sometime Gong drummer.

One product of the sessions was the single, "Religious Experience (Singing a Song in the Morning)", early recordings of which featured Syd Barrett on guitar and backing vocals. The lead guitar that appears on the final mix was often thought to have been played by Barrett, even appearing on various Barrett bootlegs, but Ayers said that he played the solo, emulating Barrett's style. However, the 2004 CD reissue of Joy of a Toy includes a mix of this song featuring Barrett's guitar as a bonus track.

Ayers was to all intents and purposes a member of Gong in 1971 when the band first toured the UK. He also played an instrumental role in Steve Hillage appearing in Gong in 1972, while Steve was touring France as a member of Ayers's band.

A second album, Shooting at the Moon, soon followed. For this, Ayers assembled a band that he called the Whole World, including a young Mike Oldfield on bass and occasionally lead guitar, avant-garde composer David Bedford on keyboards and improvising saxophonist, Lol Coxhill. Again Ayers came up with a batch of engaging songs interspersed with avant-garde instrumentals and a heavy dose of whimsy.

The Whole World was reportedly an erratic band live, and Ayers was not cut out for life on the road touring. The band broke up after a short tour, with no hard feelings, as most of the musicians guested on Ayers's next album, Whatevershebringswesing, which is regarded as one of his best, featuring the mellifluous eight-minute title track that would become Ayers's signature sound for the 1970s.

Bananamour was the fourth studio album by Kevin Ayers and it featured some of his most accessible recordings, including "Shouting in a Bucket Blues" and his whimsical tribute to Syd Barrett, "Oh! Wot A Dream". After Whatevershebringswesing, Ayers assembled a new band anchored by drummer Eddie Sparrow and bassist Archie Legget and employed a more direct lyricism. The centrepiece of the album is "Decadence", a portrait of Nico.

1974 was a watershed year for Ayers. In addition to releasing his most compelling music in this year, he helped provide other artists with access to a wider stage, most notably Lady June (June Campbell Cramer). The recording, titled Lady June's Linguistic Leprosy, made in a front room of Cramer's home in Vale Court, Maida Vale, brought Lady June's spoken-word poetry together with the music and voice of Ayers, and also had contributions by Brian Eno and Pip Pyle. It was originally released on Ayers's own Banana Productions label (via Virgin/Caroline).

The Confessions of Dr. Dream and Other Stories marked Ayers's move to the more commercial Island record label and is considered by many to be the most cohesive example of Ayersian philosophy. The production was expensive, with Ayers quoting the recording costs in a 1974 NME interview as exceeding £32,000 (a vast figure at the time). On this LP Mike Oldfield returned to the fold, and guitarist Ollie Halsall from progressive rock band Patto began a twenty-year partnership with Ayers.

On 1 June 1974, Ayers headlined a heavily publicised concert at the Rainbow Theatre, London, accompanied by John Cale, Nico, Brian Eno and Mike Oldfield. The performance was released by Island Records just 27 days later on a live LP entitled June 1, 1974. Tensions were somewhat fraught at the event since the night before John Cale had caught Ayers sleeping with his wife, prompting him to write the bile-soaked paean "Guts" that appeared on his 1975 album Slow Dazzle.

In 1976, Ayers returned to his original label Harvest and released Yes We Have No Mañanas (So Get Your Mañanas Today). The album was a more commercial affair. and secured Ayers a new American contract with ABC Records. The LP featured contributions from B.J. Cole and Zoot Money. That same year Harvest released a collection entitled Odd Ditties, that assembled a colourful group of songs that Ayers had consigned to single B-Sides or left unreleased.

The European Years (1978–1992)
The late 1970s and 1980s saw Ayers as a self-imposed exile in warmer climes (Spain), a fugitive from changing musical fashions, and a hostage to chemical addictions. Rainbow Takeaway was released in 1978 and That's What You Get Babe in 1980. 1983's Diamond Jack and the Queen of Pain, Ayers's 10th solo album, was perhaps a low-point for Ayers. He was quoted in a 1992 BBC Radio 1 interview as saying he had "virtually no recollection of making those records", and that living in Deià was "a very bad move on my part. The social scene was very intense, a meat market of expatriates all flaunting themselves and on display. My career was going downhill". Ayers released two more solo albums, 1984's Deià...Vu and 1986's As Close As You Think to little attention. The road back was marked with 1988's prophetically titled Falling Up, which received his first positive press notices in years. In 1987 he also recorded a vocal track for Mike Oldfield's single, "Flying Start". The lyrics of this song contains many references to Ayers's life.

Despite the positive reception Falling Up received, Ayers by this point had almost completely withdrawn from any public stage. An acoustic album Still Life with Guitar recorded with Fairground Attraction surfaced in France on the FNAC label and was subsequently released throughout Europe. After a European Tour in April/May 1992 his musical partner Ollie Halsall suddenly died of a drugs related heart attack. Collaborations with Ayers fanatics Ultramarine and with Liverpool's Wizards of Twiddly completed his output in the 1990s. The Wizards of Twiddly collaboration encompassed a couple of concert tours of the U.K./ Europe during 1995 and a resulting live album, 'Turn the Lights Down' [Market Square Records, 1999].

In 1993, Ayers toured America twice, usually performing solo with occasional guests, including Daevid Allen, who was also touring America at the same time. Aside from a few New York shows in 1980 with Ollie Halsall, these tours were Ayers's first live performances in America since 1968. In 1998 and 2000 he returned for two California mini-tours, performing in Los Angeles and San Francisco and backed by local musicians. The 2000 concerts had Ayers double-billed with Gong. Longtime friend John Altman joined the Los Angeles band in 2000.

BBC DJ John Peel wrote in his autobiography: "Kevin Ayers' talent is so acute you could perform major eye surgery with it."

Later years (2000–2013)
In the late 1990s, Ayers was living the life of a recluse in the south of France. At the Sculpture Centre he met American artist Timothy Shepard, who had been invited to use studio space there, and the two became friends. Ayers started to show up at Shepard's house with a guitar, and by 2005 passed some new recordings on to Shepard, most taped on a cassette recorder at his kitchen table. The songs were by turns "poignant, insightful and honest", and Shepard, "deeply moved" by what he heard, encouraged Ayers to record them properly for a possible new album.

Signing with London's LO-MAX Records, Shepard found equal enthusiasm for the demos and after making some tentative enquiries, discovered a hotbed of interest in Ayers's work amongst the current generation of musicians. New York's Ladybug Transistor set up rehearsals for a possible recording organised by band leader Gary Olson, and Kevin and Shepard flew out to New York. When the rehearsals gelled, the entourage, which had now swelled to include horn and string players, flew out to Tucson, Arizona, where the first sessions were recorded in a dusty hangar known as Wavelab Studios.

With the tapes from the first sessions, Shepard set about getting Ayers to complete the album in the UK, where by now word had spread, and a host of musicians started gravitating to the studio. Shepard recounted meeting Teenage Fanclub at a Go-Betweens party and hearing their passion for Ayers's music, and wrote a letter to singer, guitarist Norman Blake. Mojo magazine reported that, within a couple of weeks, Ayers was in a Glasgow studio with Teenage Fanclub and a host of their like-minded colleagues, who had all assembled to work with their hero. Bill Wells from the Bill Wells Trio rubbed shoulders with Euros Childs from Gorky's Zygotic Mynci and Francis Reader from the Trash Can Sinatras.

Friends and peers from the past also visited the sessions. Robert Wyatt provided his eerie Wyattron in the poignant "Cold Shoulder", Phil Manzanera contributed to the brooding "Brainstorm", Hugh Hopper from Soft Machine played bass on the title track and Bridget St John, a British folk singer beloved of John Peel, duetted with Ayers on "Baby Come Home", the first time they had sung together since 1970 on Shooting at the Moon. The Unfairground was released to critical acclaim in September 2007.

Ayers died in his sleep on 18 February 2013 in Montolieu, France, aged 68. He is survived by three daughters, Rachel, Galen and Annaliese, and his sister, Kate. Rachel and Galen were also active as singers and musicians.

Compilations, collaborations and live recordings

 * June 1, 1974 (|Island |Jun 1974) (with Nico, John Cale and Brian Eno)
 * Lady June's Linguistic Leprosy (Caroline/Virgin, Nov 1974) (with Lady June and Brian Eno)
 * Odd Ditties (Harvest 1976) (a collection of rarities and unreleased tracks)
 * The Kevin Ayers Collection (SFM 1983)
 * Banana Productions: The Best of Kevin Ayers (EMI 1989)
 * BBC Live in Concert (Windsong 1992)
 * Document Series Presents Kevin Ayers (Connoisseur Collection 1992)
 * 1969–80 (Alex 1995)
 * First Show in the Appearance Business: The BBC Sessions 1973–1976 (Strange Fruit 1996)
 * The Garden of Love with Mike Oldfield and Robert Wyatt (Voiceprint 1997)
 * Singing the Bruise: The BBC Sessions, 1970–1972 [live] (Strange Fruit 1998)
 * Too Old to Die Young: BBC Live 1972–1976 (Hux 1998)
 * Banana Follies (Hux 1998)
 * Turn the Lights Down (live) with the Wizards of Twiddly (Market Square 2000)
 * The Best of Kevin Ayers (EMI 2000)
 * Didn't Feel Lonely Till I Thought of You: The Island Records Years (Edsel 2004)
 * Alive in California (Box-O-Plenty Records, November 2004)
 * BBC Sessions 1970–1976 (Hux 2005)
 * Some Kevin Ayers (white label promo 2007)
 * Songs For Insane Times: An Anthology 1969–1980 (EMI, September 2008)
 * The Harvest Years (5 X CD box set, Harvest 2012 ) – Includes Joy of a toy, Shooting at the Moon, whatevershebringswesing, Bananamour and The Confessions of Dr. Dream and other stories all with bonus tracks, single mixes, B sides, BBC session tracks. Odd ditties is omitted and Confessions is included despite it being originally released on Island, not Harvest.

title: Kevin Ayers