text:
Salamander letter

The salamander letter was a controversial forged document about the history of the Latter Day Saint movement. The letter was one of hundreds of documents concerning the history of the Latter Day Saint movement that surfaced in the early 1980s. The salamander letter presented a view of the life of the movement's founder, Joseph Smith, that stood sharply at odds with the commonly accepted version of the early progression of the church Smith established.

Initially accepted by some document experts and collectors, and rejected by others, the salamander letter generated much discussion and debate inside and outside the Latter Day Saint movement. Kenneth W. Rendell, a prominent dealer of historical papers, lent credence to the salamander letter by stating that the ink, paper, and postmark were all consistent with the period; he concluded that "there is no indication that the document is a forgery." The document was later demonstrated to be a forgery created by Mark Hofmann, who had been responsible for the forgery of many other notable documents. Rendell then recast his conclusion, stating that while there was "the absence of any indication of forgery in the letter itself, there was also no evidence that it was genuine."

Contents
The contents of the letter implied a magical aspect to Smith's life, a controversial subject debated amongst scholars of Latter Day Saint history. The salamander letter was supposedly written by Martin Harris to W. W. Phelps, an early convert in the Latter Day Saint movement. Harris served for a short period of time as scribe for the translation of the golden plates, and assisted in the financing of the first printing of the Book of Mormon. A joint statement by Harris and two other men appears in the front of the Book of Mormon stating that he was shown by an angel the golden plates from which the book was translated.

The letter presented a version of the recovery of the golden plates which contrasted with the orthodox version of events as related by Joseph Smith and the Latter Day Saint movement, which would have, if true, confirmed some controversial aspects of Smith's life. Smith had been accused of "treasure digging" and using a "seer stone," which was later confirmed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).

According to the letter, when Smith dug up the plates a "salamander" appeared, which transformed itself into a spirit that refused to give Smith the plates unless his brother, Alvin Smith, was also present. This would have been very difficult, as Alvin was dead at the time of the alleged appearance. This reference may have been an attempt by Hofmann to associate the recovery of the gold plates to a rumor that Alvin's grave was dug up by Smith's family to use Alvin's remains in a magical ceremony.

Hofmann's use of a salamander drew upon legends about certain animals having supernatural powers. Hofmann may have been inspired by the early anti-Mormon book, Mormonism Unvailed (1834), which claimed that a toad-like animal was rumored to have appeared to Smith in conjunction with the recovery of the plates.

Text

 * Palmyra October 23d 1830

 * Dear Sir

 * Your letter of yesterday is received & I hasten to answer as fully as I can—Joseph Smith Jr first come to my notice in the year 1824 in the summer of that year I contracted with his father to build a fence on my property in the corse [sic] of that work I approach Joseph & ask how it is in a half day you put up what requires your father & 2 brothers a full day working together he says I have not been with out assistance but can not say more only you better find out the next day I take the older Smith by the arm & he says Joseph can see any thing he wishes by looking at a stone Joseph often sees Spirits here with great kettles of coin money it was Spirits who brought up rock because Joseph made no attempt on their money I latter  [sic] dream I converse with spirits which let me count their money when I awake I have in my hand a dollar coin which I take for a sign Joseph describes what I seen in every particular says he the spirits are grieved so I through  [sic] back the dollar in the fall of the year 1827 I hear Joseph found a gold bible I take Joseph aside & he says it is true I found it 4 years ago with my stone but only just got it because of the enchantment the old spirit come to me 3 times in the same dream & says dig up the gold but when I take it up the next morning the spirit transfigured himself from a white salamander in the bottom of the hole & struck me 3 times & held the treasure & would not let me have it because I lay it down to cover over the hole when the spirit says do not lay it down Joseph says when can I have it the spirit says one year from to day if you obay  [sic] me look to the stone after a few days he looks the spirit says bring your brother Alvin Joseph says he is dead shall I bring what remains but the spirit is gone Joseph goes to get the gold bible but the spirit says you did not bring your brother you can not have it look to the stone Joseph looks but can not see who to bring the spirit says I tricked you again look to the stone Joseph looks & sees his wife on the 22d day of Sept 1827 they get the gold bible—I give Joseph $50 to move him down to Pa Joseph says when you visit me I will give you a sign he gives me some hieroglyphics I take then to Utica Albany & New York in the last place Dr Mitchel gives me an introduction to Professor Anthon says he they are short hand Egyption  [sic] the same what was used in ancient times bring me the old book & I will translate says I it is made of precious gold & is sealed from view says he I can not read a sealed book—Joseph found some giant silver spectacles with the plates he puts them in an old hat & in the darkness reads the words & in this way it is all translated & written down—about the middle of June 1829 Joseph takes me together with Oliver Cowdery & David Whitmer to have a view of the plates our names are appended to the book of Mormon which I had printed with my own money—space and time both prevent me from writing more at present if there is any thing further you wish to inquire I shall attend to it

 * Yours Respect
 * Martin Harris

Initial assessments of authenticity
The letter was initially deemed authentic by experienced document examiners, however this conclusion is disputed. Critics of the LDS Church have used the letter as an argument against the validity of the religion. The letter was useful to these organizations because it seemed to support the opinions of Reed Durham, D. Michael Quinn, and others regarding "magical" aspects of Smith's religious experiences.

Purchase and publicity
The letter was initially offered to Don Schmidt of the LDS Church Historical Department on January 3, 1984, by Lyn Jacobs, who wanted to trade it for a $10 Mormon gold piece. Jacobs told Schmidt that he got the letter from a collector in the east, referred by Mark Hofmann. Jacobs later changed his offer to a trade for a copy of a Book of Commandments. This offer was also rejected. Jacobs also suggested that Brent Ashworth might have an interest in it, although Hofmann had already showed a transcript of it to him and he had declared it to be fake. The contents of the letter also seemed too similar to Howe's Mormonism Unvailed to others in the LDS Church's Historical Department. The letter was also offered to other interested parties, including Jerald and Sandra Tanner, prominent critics of Mormonism. Although the letter's authenticity would have bolstered the Tanners' claims against the church, they expressed doubts as to its authenticity. A deal with the LDS Church was never reached. Hofmann finally sold the letter to Steven F. Christensen on January 6, 1984, for $40,000. Christensen wanted to try to authenticate it and then donate it to the LDS Church.

In the Church News on April 28, 1985, the LDS Church revealed the contents of the salamander letter. Alongside was included a First Presidency statement, quoting Gordon B. Hinckley: "No one, of course, can be certain that Martin Harris wrote the document. However, at this point we accept the judgment of the examiner that there is no indication that it is a forgery. This does not preclude the possibility that it may have been forged at a time when the Church had many enemies. It is, however, an interesting document of the times." At about this same time, the church also released a letter to its high school seminary program for youth, suggesting that seminary teachers not encourage debate about the salamander letter, but that they should tactfully answer genuine questions on the subject. FARMS (a research group composed of Mormon scholars) published several articles which examined the salamander letter, such as, "Why Might a Person in 1830 Connect an Angel With a Salamander?"

Suspicion and resolution
Hofmann drew suspicion for discovering so many astounding documents that others had missed, including the so-called "Oath of a Freeman", which he was attempting to sell to the Library of Congress.

By early 1984, Jerald Tanner concluded there was significant doubt as to the salamander letter's authenticity. He even went so far as to publish an attack on the document, which surprised many scholars and students since this and other "discoveries" of important Mormon documents by Hofmann often appeared to bolster the Tanners' own arguments. By late 1984, Jerald Tanner questioned the authenticity of most if not all of Hofmann's "discoveries", based in large part on their unproven provenance. The Tanners did concur with Hofmann in contending that the LDS Church's apparent inability to discern the forged documents was evidence against church leadership being divinely inspired. John Tvedtnes, a Mormon scholar, responded with Joseph Smith's statement that "a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such," and that purchasing historical materials is a business activity rather than a prophetic undertaking. It is also asserted that the LDS Church's leaders do not claim infallibility and that the church's efforts to obtain and archive historically significant material extend to works even by anti-Mormon authors.

Hofmann was struggling under massive debt and falling behind on delivering on deals that he had made. In 1985, when he learned that the pedigree of the salamander letter was under widespread suspicion, he produced and placed a number of bombs. They were detonated with a mercury switch, but without a safety switch. Two people were killed: Christensen at his office, the main target; and Kathleen Sheets at her home. That bomb was intended as a diversion, to draw off investigators by causing them to focus on unrelated business dealings between Christensen and Sheets's husband. Hofmann himself was subsequently injured when a third bomb went off prematurely in his car. That bomb exploded in a way that most of the blast did not hit Hofmann.

The police investigated these bombings, and during a search of Hofmann's home found a studio in the basement where he could create counterfeited documents as well as a semi-automatic carbine which had been converted to full automatic fire. Many of the documents Hofmann sold or donated were proven to be forgeries by a new forensic technique developed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, chiefly to detect his forgeries.

The Salt Lake City Police Department used Utah State special agent and forensic examiner George Throckmorton and Arizona document examiner William Flynn to examine a poem supposedly written by Harris and placed in his old Book of Common Prayer and determined it had actually been created by Hofmann. Hofmann used the poem to authenticate the writing in the salamander letter. Although this was enough proof by itself that the letter was a forgery, Throckmorton and Flynn bolstered their case by getting in touch with Frances Magee, the widow of a descendant of Martin Harris. Magee's family had owned the book for many years, and Magee told investigators that she'd never seen the poem before. She suspected someone had planted it there after she sold the book. Hofmann ultimately pleaded guilty to his forgeries and murders and was sentenced to life in prison.

Church leaders, especially First Presidency member Gordon B. Hinckley, continued to field criticism for some time for "being duped" and being "unable to discern the evil intentions of a man like Hofmann". Hinckley later noted: "I accepted him to come into my office on a basis of trust … I frankly admit that Hofmann tricked us. He also tricked experts from New York to Utah, however .... I am not ashamed to admit that we were victimized. It is not the first time the Church has found itself in such a position. Joseph Smith was victimized again and again. The Savior was victimized. I am sorry to say that sometimes it happens."

Following the Hofmann trial, in a speech at Brigham Young University titled "Recent Events Involving Church History and Forged Documents", Dallin H. Oaks addressed media critiques of the church, saying:

In addition to addressing the media's treatment of the church during this period, Oaks also spoke about other concerns including alleged suppression of documents, Hofmann's access to church officials, actual amounts paid for documents, and reminders of the many cautions Church leaders gave as to the documents' authenticity prior to Hofmann's arrest.

In addressing why Hofmann's lies were not detected by church leaders, Oaks said:

Lasting effects
More than twenty years later, effects of the letter still lingered. The letter was referenced in research by both Mormons and critics of Mormonism alike. Resulting publications that include conclusions based on the presumption that the letter was authentic are still available and may influence the opinions of those seeking information on "deep Mormon doctrine" or evidence to support a naturalistic or magical historical view of Mormonism or Joseph Smith.

Grant H. Palmer, author of the book An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, stated that his work was influenced in part by his original acceptance of the salamander letter as being valid and supportive of his view. Palmer stated that the "salamander letter" caused him to explore Joseph Smith's "mystical mindset".

The salamander letter also influenced the content of the film The God Makers II, an alleged exposé of Mormonism. The film suggests that Joseph Smith was required to dig up his brother Alvin's body and bring a part of it with him to the hill Cumorah in order to obtain the golden plates from which the Book of Mormon was said to be translated. Jerald and Sandra Tanner refuted this suggestion and determined that the only known source of such a requirement would have been the salamander letter.

title: Salamander letter


text:
National Library of New Zealand

The National Library of New Zealand (Te Puna Mātauranga o Aotearoa) is charged with the obligation to "enrich the cultural and economic life of New Zealand and its interchanges with other nations" (National Library of New Zealand (Te Puna Mātauranga) Act 2003). Under the Act, the library's duties include collecting, preserving and protecting New Zealand's documentary heritage, supporting other libraries in New Zealand, and collaborating with peer institutions abroad. The library headquarters is on the corner of Aitken and Molesworth Streets in Wellington, close to the New Zealand Parliament Buildings and the Court of Appeal.

The National Library is New Zealand's legal deposit library, and the Legal Deposit Office is the country's agency for ISBN and ISSN. The library supports schools through its Services to Schools business unit, which has curriculum and advisory branches around New Zealand.

Origins
The National Library of New Zealand was formed in 1965 when the General Assembly Library, the Alexander Turnbull Library, and the National Library Service were brought together by the National Library Act 1965.

The General Assembly Library was founded from money voted by Parliament in 1856 and soon became "a magnificent national treasure house in a splendid building". From its beginnings until it became the National Library, it always comprised a parliamentary information service of documents and newspapers plus an extensive library of international research and literature.

The Alexander Turnbull Library was founded in 1920 and grew to hold a "comprehensive collection" of primarily New Zealand culture and history, Maori and non-Maori. The National Library Service, established in 1945, was made up of four divisions: the Country Library Service, the School Library Service, a National Library centre and Library School in Wellington.

Consolidation
In 1974, the Archive of New Zealand Music was established at the suggestion of New Zealand composer Douglas Lilburn.

In 1976 Mary Ronnie became the first female national librarian in the world, due to becoming New Zealand's first female National Librarian, at the National Library of New Zealand.

In 1985, the General Assembly Library returned to become part of the Parliamentary Service, changing its name in 1987 to the Parliamentary Library. When it separated from the National Library, the National Library then took guardianship of hundreds of thousands of international volumes previously acquired by the General Assembly Library, and the National Library continued to curate the traditional international library.

In 1987, staff and collections from 14 different sites around Wellington were centralised in a new National Library building, officially opened in August. The architecture of the building is said to have been heavily influenced by the design of the Boston City Hall, but direct reference to the Birmingham Central Library should not be ruled out.

In 1988, the National Library became an autonomous government department where previously it had been administered by the Department of Education. The same year, the Library took on the Maori name Te Puna Mātauranga o Aotearoa, which translated means: the wellspring of knowledge, of New Zealand.

Restructuring and renovations
In early 1998 an ambitious $8.5 million computer project was scrapped.

The National Library building was to be expanded and upgraded in 2009–2011, but the incoming Fifth National Government greatly scaled down the scope of the work, reducing the budget for it and delaying the commencement, arguing concerns about the cost of the project and the reduction in the accessibility of collections and facilities during the construction work. The building closed for two years, reopening in June 2012, while refurbishment continued.

On 25 March 2010 the Minister of State Services announced that Archives New Zealand and the National Library of New Zealand would be subsumed under the Department of Internal Affairs.

In June 2018 a National Archival and Library Institutions Ministerial Group (NALI) was announced. The purpose of NALI was to examine the structure and role of the National Library, Archives New Zealand and Ngā Taonga Sound & Vision, the position of the Chief Archivist and National Librarian, and the future of collecting, preserving and providing access to New Zealand's documentary heritage, particularly digital preservation and access. Before and since NALI was set up concern has been expressed about the National Library being part of the Department of Internal Affairs.

In December 2020, the Department of Internal Affairs confirmed that the National library along with Archives New Zealand and Ngā Taonga Sound & Vision would move to a new purpose built business park called the Horowhenua Business Park in Levin at an unspecified date.

In February 2022 Internal Affairs Minister Jan Tinetti, Archives NZ chief archivist Stephen Clarke and Mãori iwi (tribe) Taranaki Whānui Te Āti Awa confirmed that the Government would build a new archives building on the site of the former Defence House on Wellington's Aitken Street between the present Archives NZ and National Library buildings. The new NZ$290 million building will also host archives repository and specialist facilities for the National Library, Archives New Zealand and Ngā Taonga Sound & Vision.

Overseas published collections review
In 2015, the National Library signalled the beginning of a review process of their international collections, comprising the General Assembly international library in its guardianship of General Assembly collections and substantial post-1965 acquisitions. The National Library classified these collections as "overseas published collections". This was done in consultation with New Zealand’s library sector. The review process was publicly announced in December 2019.

Under the aegis of the Department of Internal Affairs, operations began in 2018 to dispense with 625,000 "overseas published" books, out of a total of overseas published collections amounting to 710,000 items.

In October 2019, the library announced its intention to offer the books to local libraries, prison libraries, and community groups. The library stated the weeding was being done to create "room to continue to grow our Māori, Pacific and New Zealand collections and to build well-managed coherent collections that support the National Library’s functions, in line with our legislated mandate and collections policy."

In September 2020, the review and weeding of overseas published book collections began to be discussed in the New Zealand media. The review attracted both positive and negative international and local media coverage.

The review revealed that some of the books may be of pertinence to New Zealand/Aotearoan history and on-going narratives. Concerned that researchers would lose access, the weeding of over 600,000 books was challenged by the advocacy group Book Guardians Aotearoa. The books in question are housed in Wellington and Whanganui. In July 2021 the Library announced it had made a donation agreement with the Internet Archive to take the books and digitise them, making them available to researchers on their Open Library platform.

In September 2021, the Publishers Association of New Zealand and the New Zealand Society of Authors lodged an appeal against the legality of the National Library's donation to Internet Archive with the attorney-general, arguing that the donation breached copyright law and expressing concern about the future of the books should the archive be ordered to close. In October 2021, British novelist Philip Pullman, the President of the British Society of Authors, criticised the donation for allegedly breaching copyright laws. Wellington QC Hugh Rennie also alleged that the National Library was receiving advice from a lawyer unauthorised to practise in New Zealand, in response to Tohatoha copyright adviser Michael Wolfe's statement in support of the donation agreement. The lawyers Andrew Brown QC and Jack Oliver-Hood also opined that the deal made the library liable for copyright infringement in New Zealand courts.

The Library states that the Internet Archive uses controlled digital lending to "prevent illicit copying and ensure that copies are loaned to one person at a time" and that "controlled digital lending provides a way to ensure protection for content creators as well as the ability for people to be able to access and use the work that's been created." The International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA) issued a statement in support of controlled digital lending and highlighted the degree to which the COVID-19 pandemic underscored the need for legislation to enable libraries to provide temporary digital access to library holdings.

The Library's donation agreement with the Internet Archive was supported by library groups and New Zealand civil society organisations.

The overseas published collections project was supported by the library sector including the Council of New Zealand University Librarians (CONZUL), Library and Information Association of New Zealand Aotearoa (LIANZA) and the Library Information Advisory Committee (LIAC), which advises the Minister of Internal Affairs.

However, several groups including the Book Guardians Aotearoa, the Publishers' Association, the Society of Authors and Writers Against National Library Disposals have been opposing moves to donate the 600,000 books by writing articles, organising events and publishing a 64 page anthology of writing. Organisations that protect writer and publisher copyright particularly PANZ and NZSA (PEN NZ) are primarily concerned with the interests of their clients and members, e.g. illegal copying of books. Meanwhile, groups like Writers Against National Library Disposals (referred to by government as the "creative sector") and Book Guardians Aotearoa advocate for increased government funding for correct storage and professional curation of the international collection, to encourage and facilitate public accessibility to the threatened books. The Creative Sector does not oppose digitisation, but wishes it to occur within New Zealand as long as it fully respects authors' rights.

On 29 November 2021, the National Library of New Zealand announced that it was "reconsidering" its contract with Internet Archive, and would make an announcement in early 2022 regarding its continuation or cancellation. The National Library of New Zealand has also stated that it would enter into consultation with all the authors' rights and creative sector groups concerned, in 2022. On 31 October 2022, in a letter that seems to bring the protests and the process of disposals to some kind of resolution, the director of the New Zealand National Library announced that the library is "developing a new policy for removing and disposing of collection items". Details of this new policy are expected to be made public in 2023 prior to the next general election.

Collections
The National Library's collections are stored in the main building in Wellington and several other locations in New Zealand such as the former National Computer Centre in Whanganui. The library has three main groups: the General Collections which includes New Zealand published and overseas published volumes, the Schools Collection, and the collections of the Alexander Turnbull Library. Physical access to some of the collections may be requested through digital portals, and digital acquisitions are possible through products and online resources.

The General Collections focus on supporting the information needs of New Zealanders through services to individuals, schools and researchers, with notable collections such as the Dorothy Neal White Collection. The Schools Collection contains books and other material to support teaching and learning in New Zealand schools.

General Assembly Library collections
From the foundation of the National Library in 1965 until 1986 the General Assembly Library was one of the three pillars of the institution. The General Assembly Library had previously acted as a de facto National Library, offering recess privileges to the public when parliament was not in session. In 1924, for example, "6,135 books were issued during the recess period, and 670 recess access cards had been granted". The Chief Librarian further notes that "the New Zealand General Assembly Library is the only legislative library in the world from which volumes may be taken out during the recess". Until 1986, its collections included a significant overseas collection and copious parliamentary documents. The General Assembly Library became a stand-alone institution in 1986, when it restricted its focus to documents of immediate pertinence to parliamentary activities. Many of its overseas collections remained with the National Library and some works, particularly its rare books, then entered under the protection of the Alexander Turnbull Library.

Alexander Turnbull Library
The Alexander Turnbull Library was founded in 1919 by Alexander Turnbull (1868–1918), whose bequest to the nation included the 55,000 volume nucleus of the current collection. In later years, the library made its own acquisitions and his bequest was augmented with books from the General Assembly Library collections. The Alexander Turnbull Library is now part of National Library but its collections are fully protected by law and may not be sold or otherwise disposed of by the Direction of the National library. Unlike the general collections of the National Library, the collections of the Alexander Turnbull Library are normally held in its Wellington building, the National Library building constructed in 1987. Turnbull House, the library's former location in Bowen Street in downtown Wellington, is now managed by Heritage New Zealand. It is charged under the Act to:
 * 'Preserve, protect, develop, and make accessible for all the people of New Zealand the collections of that library in perpetuity and in a manner consistent with their status as documentary heritage and taonga'; and
 * 'Develop the research collections and the services of the Alexander Turnbull Library, particularly in the fields of New Zealand and Pacific studies and rare books'; and
 * 'Develop and maintain a comprehensive collection of documents relating to New Zealand and the people of New Zealand.'

Turnbull collected the works of John Milton extensively, and the library now has holdings of Milton's works which are "ranked among the finest in the world" and "good collections of seventeenth-century poetical miscellanies and of Dryden material, ... along with fine sets of literary periodicals."

Chief librarians of the Alexander Turnbull Library have been:
 * Johannes Andersen, 1919–1937
 * Clyde Taylor, 1937–1963
 * John Reece Cole, 1963–1965
 * Graham Bagnall, 1966–1973
 * Jim Traue, 1973–1990
 * Margaret Calder, 1990–2007
 * Chris Szekely, 2007–2024
 * Jessica Moran (acting), 2024

The Friends of the Turnbull Library (FoTL) is an incorporated society that supports the work of the Alexander Turnbull Library by organising events, activities and offering an annual research grant to a scholars using the library’s resources. FoTL also funds the publication of the Turnbull Library Record which publishes information about the activities of the library and showcases the Library’s collections. First published in 1940, digital issues of The Turnbull Library Record are available through Papers Past.

Turnbull Library collections
The library houses a number of specialty collections:
 * Archive of New Zealand Music
 * Cartographic Collection
 * Drawings, Paintings and Prints
 * Ephemera Collection
 * Manuscripts and Archives
 * National Newspaper Collection
 * New Zealand and Pacific Book Collection
 * New Zealand Cartoon Archive
 * Music, Sounds and Audio-visual Collection
 * Serials Collection
 * New Zealand Web Archive
 * Oral History and Sound
 * Photographic Archive
 * Rare Books and Fine Printing
 * General Collection of Books relating to New Zealand and the Pacific
 * Turnbull Named Collections.

The unpublished material held by the Turnbull Library can be searched in Tiaki.

He Tohu
The He Tohu exhibition displays three nationally significant documents which are on loan from Archives New Zealand's holdings.

 * Te Tiriti o Waitangi / The Treaty of Waitangi (1840)
 * He Whakaputanga / Declaration of the Independence of the United Tribes of New Zealand (1835)
 * Women's Suffrage Petition / Te Petihana Whakamana Pōti Wahine (1893)

The documents were moved from Archives New Zealand on 22 April 2017 under tight security.

Services

The National Library has been providing support to schools since 1942 and the current service operates from centres in Auckland and Christchurch. Services to Schools has three priorities:

 * reading engagement
 * school libraries
 * digital literacy

School libraries can keep up-to-date with research on school libraries, and gain advice on management, finance and staffing, collection management, library systems, and teaching and learning. Reading engagement encompasses advice on supporting children's reading and children's and young adults literature. Digital literacy supports the school library's role in developing digital literacy and inquiry learning.

Other services include:

 * The Lending Service loans fiction and non-fiction books to schools and home educators
 * Teaching and Learning Resources makes available a range of databases and curated resources to teachers and students. AnyQuestions is an online reference service for all New Zealand school students
 * Professional and Learning Support for school librarians and educators via courses, events and online methods.

National Digital Heritage Archive
Established in 2004, the National Digital Heritage Archive (NDHA) is a partnership between the National Library, Ex Libris and Sun Microsystems to develop a digital archive and preservation management system. A digital storehouse, the system ensures that websites, digital images, CDs, DVDs and other 'digitally born' and digitised items that make up the Library's growing digital heritage collections will, despite technical obsolescence, be preserved and remain accessible to researchers, students and library users now and in the future.

Papers Past
The Papers Past website, run by the National Library of New Zealand, provides free access to digitised newspapers, magazines, journals, letters, diaries, and parliamentary papers from the 19th and 20th centuries. It was launched in 2001. In 2014 it included an estimated 3.3 million digitised pages.

Index New Zealand
Index New Zealand (INNZ) is a freely accessible online index of articles from journals, magazines and newspapers covering New Zealand and the South Pacific, with some links to the full text of articles.

National librarians

 * Geoff Alley, 1964–1968
 * Hector M. Macaskill,1969–1972
 * David C. McIntosh, 1972–1975
 * Mary Ronnie, 1976–1981
 * Peter G. Scott, 1982–1997
 * Christopher Blake, 1997–2002
 * Penny Carnaby, 2003–2010
 * Bill Macnaught, 2011–2020
 * Rachel Esson, 2020–present

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: National Library of New Zealand


text:
Frederick Frelinghuysen

Frederick Frelinghuysen may refer to the following, all members of the American Frelinghuysen political family:

 * Frederick Frelinghuysen (general) (1753–1804), Revolutionary-era statesman, U.S. Senator
 * Frederick T. Frelinghuysen (1817–1885), U.S. Senator and Secretary of State
 * Frederick Frelinghuysen (businessman) (1848–1924), president of the Mutual Benefit Life Insurance Company

title: Frederick Frelinghuysen


text:
Berg Lake

Berg Lake is a lake on the Robson River just below the river's source located within Mount Robson Provincial Park, at the doorstep of the north face of Mount Robson, the highest peak in the Canadian Rockies. It is partly fed by the Berg Glacier.

The turquoise colored Berg Lake is dotted with icebergs even in the middle of summer. Berg Lake can be reached by following a marked hiking trail for 19 km from the parking lot. To reach the parking lot, follow Highway 5 north from Valemount to Highway 16 and head east 18 km. Or, follow Yellowhead Highway 16 west from Jasper townsite for 84 km to the Mount Robson Viewpoint centre. On the north side of the highway, follow a two-lane paved road for 2 km, ending at the parking lot.

Berg Lake Trail
The trail climbs gradually alongside the Robson River (a tributary of the Fraser River) for 4.2 km before reaching Kinney Lake. After crossing a steel bridge at the end of Kinney Lake, it is just 2.8 km to the Kinney Lake campground. After leaving the Kinney Lake campground the trail climbs and then descends a small bluff. After descending the bluff the trail splits for less than a kilometre, giving the hiker the option of traversing the flats, which is not recommended in the early summer because of high water, or continuing on in the forest. At the end of the Kinney Lake flats the trail starts climbing up to the Valley of a Thousand Falls. After several kilometres the trail crosses the Robson River on a suspension bridge and enters Whitehorn campground at the 11 km mark. After leaving the campground the trail eventually crosses a second steel bridge. At this point the trail starts a steep climb with numerous switchbacks. Over the next few kilometres, the trail passes White Falls, Falls-of-the-Pool and Emperor Falls. Finally, once above this valley, the trail levels off and dips down toward the river, providing the first glimpses of the Emperor Face of Mt. Robson. After climbing just over 500 m in 5 km, the trail enters Emperor campground. From here the trail continues on 3 km until reaching the shores of Berg Lake and Marmot campground. If you carry on a further 2 km you will reach Berg Lake campground. There are three popular day trips from this campground, Hargeaves Glacier/Mumm Basin Traverse, Toboggan Falls and Snowbird Pass. At the 22 km mark and 23 km mark there are two more campgrounds, Rearguard and Robson Pass.

title: Berg Lake


text:
User talk:ABVR

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. You seem to know what you're doing already, but here are some useful links in case you haven't found them yet;

 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

Angela 06:02, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

History of science
Please consider joining the proposed History of Science Wikiproject.--ragesoss 03:33, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:ABVR


text:
User talk:Derek Cramer

Hello Derek, welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some useful links in case you haven't already found them;

 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

Angela 06:02, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

title: User talk:Derek Cramer


text:
Talk:Umberto I of Italy

NPOV
OMG. The importing 1911 encyclopedia articles is nice, but this lays on the royalist/conservative propaganda so thick it isn't funny. Good gentle minded king? Tell that to the protestors he had massacred, Tianmen-square style! Somebody fix pls thx. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.64.198 (talk) 11:41, 21 January 2004 (UTC)

 * I also think this article is pure royalist propaganda. Of the few kings of Italy, Humbert I was probably the most hated, and as far as I know few wept over his death. The title "the Good" is simply ludicrous (though it's true the official propaganda machine tried to make it stick). If you ask any informed Italian, he's probably going to prefer Bresci's figure to king Humbert's.
 * In any case, a less agiographic article is needed. I'll put an NPOV notice on the article. --Orzetto 13:46, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, I edited the stuff so it looks (to me) a bit more NPOV. You judge whether the NPOV template should go away. --Orzetto 11:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I didn't see the 1911 encyclopedia article, but I'm sure it can't be worse than the present entry on king Umberto I.

The content is very meagre, and apparently revolves around something he never did, i.e. firing on the crowd with cannons.

It must be underlined that the Kingdom of Italy was a constitutional monarchy, and the King was Head of State only, not having government responsabilities.

The decision to give absolute power to General Fiorenzo Bava Beccaris was of the government, Prime Minister di Rudini' and all members, including moderate ministers such as Zanardelli.

The King had nothing to do with that, and the fact that he congratulated Bava Beccaris for having termianted a very much feared revolution was normal procedure.

Even the dead count is wrong: the deads were 80, 2 were soldiers and policemen, that makes 78. At leas 23 were killed in the riots before the 7th of May, that makes no more than 55. Which certainly is a terrible toll, but can anyone believe that an army firing with cannons on the crowd for two full days can make 55 deads only? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChipHazard (talk • contribs) 09:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually the article on Humbert I seems pure anti-monarchist propaganda. First, there is no mention of the Gold military valour medal he earned himself in 1866. Second, the inhumane conditions of the jailing of Passanante seem to be a direct responsibility of the King, when he instead tried to save Passnante's life by commuting the sentence. Third during the murder attempt by Passanante the Queen cried out "Cairoli save the King", Prime Minister Cairoli (who belonged to the moderate left) jumped on Passanante to defend the King and thereby got stabbed in the leg. It is quite difficult nowadays to immagine any Prime Minister jumping on an armed assailant to defend the life of a King with complete disregard for his life, let alone to defend the life oh a "hated tyrant" as Humbert I is described in this article. Fourth, Humbert responsibility for the Bava-Beccaris massacre was substantially non-existent, he justed congatulated the general for having restored order when faced by a revolutionary movement (so had been described what happened in Milan, the King was not there). Fifth, Humbert was greatly mourned and his murder shocked and horrified most of the Italians. This article needs editing and balancing rather quickly.Martin von Bachmann (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, the article is decidedly one-sided and negative. For instance, the article claims Umberto was a "colonialist" but gives neither any evidence of this or any sources. And the very bold claim that Passnante was held in a tiny cell and tortured into insanity is backed up only by some obscure book from the 1920's? That's weak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.57.121 (talk) 23:44, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Naming
Certainly he should be at Humbert I of Italy for just the same reason as Humbert II of Italy is where he is? Or at least Umberto for both. This inconsistency is silly. -- Jao 19:53, 19 April 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree, I put a request to change the name. --Orzetto 13:46, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * oppose Actually he is in as Umberto II. Humbert II is simply the redirect. Wikipedia policy is not to anglicise names, but to use the version of names used in English. I write a lot about royal issues, and indeed have written about the last two Italian kings and I rarely see references to Humbert II. Almost invariably to Umberto II. Humbert I is more difficult as he is rarely mentioned in English anyway, and where he is, it is 50:50 as Umberto or Humbert. As Humbert II is correctly at Umberto II logically we should then have this guy in as Umberto I. The Victors Emmanuel are invariably referred to in English by their English version of the name, probably because the name is too complicated to be translated as Victorio Emmannuele. It is crazy, I know, but for some reasons Italian monarchs seem to cause as much trouble here as they did in Italy when they reigned. :-) But as policy is to use the version of the name each monarch is known by in English, they should be named here

 * Victor Emmanuel I
 * Victor Emmanuel II
 * Umberto I
 * Victor Emmanuel III
 * Umberto II.

Fear ÉIREANN (talk) 17:46, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I would prefer some consistency (by the way it would be Vittorio Emanuele in Italian). I'm not sure why the articles about the Humberts are left in Italian, while the Victor Emmanuels are in English—it does not look well-thought.
 * Google-test: "Umberto I of Italy" and "Humbert I of Italy" are more or less equally matched, 703 to 671. However, it's clear that "Humbert II of Italy" is prevalent over "Umberto II of Italy", winning with 1500 against 904.
 * With such margins, I would definitely go for "Humbert". --Orzetto 06:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree with jtd - the inconsistency is irritating, but necessary. The Victor Emmanuels are almost always called "Victor Emmanuel". The Umberto's are normally called "Umberto". It is not as though this is unheard of. Ferdinand VII of Spain and Isabella II of Spain are succeeded by Amadeo I of Spain and Alfonso XII of Spain. I would suggest that this is most likely because names like "Amadeus," "Alphonse," and "Humbert" are pretty deeply uncommon in English, so there is not much point in anglicizing. As to google - the search for "Umberto I of Italy" vs "Humbert I of Italy" yields about twice as many results for Umberto. It should be added that "Umberto I" vs. "Humbert I" yields many, many, many, many more results for Umberto. Although some are in Italian, "Humbert I" yields very few results at all - and most of the early ones are just different sites with the Columbia Encyclopedia online. There are also nearly twice as many hits for "Umberto II" as for "Humbert II". john k 14:39, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry but you must be wrong. The Google count for "Umberto I of Italy" and "Humbert I of Italy" are still as I reported (basically equal). Your search for "Umberto I" is completely invalid, as there still are thousands of squares, streets, hospitals and so on with the name of the king (he was murdered by an anarchist, and during the "orderly" fascist period they were naming everything after him). The first page of googling reports, among others, "Colle Umberto I", "Villa Umberto I", "Ristorante Umberto I", "Piazza Umberto I". Practically any town in Italy has a "via Umberto I" somewhere. Rome's main hospital is named Umberto I, so you might even find the name in scientific publication (well, if that hospital were a scientific institution and not a rat breeding ground). By the same reasoning, you might conclude that princess Margrethe (or Margaret) should not be translated either, because you will find bunches of "Margherita" (the pizza, invented for the queen, who did not like anchovies).
 * Umberto is neither common in Italian, a notable exception being Umberto Bossi. In English, I remember the man in Lolita was named Humbert.
 * In English-only pages, googling "Humbert II of Italy" (who did not have any streets named after him) returns 1480, while "Umberto II of Italy" returns 849 --Orzetto 17:35, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Indeed there are a lot of results based on Italian locations. The queen, so far as I know, is usually called "Queen Margherita" in English, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. At any rate, as I said, the google results aren't that important, since they're hard to interpret. As to the names, my point was not that Umberto is a common name in Italy, but simply that Humbert is not a common name in English. Thus, translating the name from "Umberto" to "Humbert" does not make it terribly more familiar, which is the normal reason for translating names. At any rate, google results should not be the be-all and end-all. Most books I have read which discuss Italian history use "Umberto" and not "Humbert" for the king. Obviously, this is not scientific, but neither is google, which only gives a false sense of precision. john k 17:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Two points for Orzetto.

 * Whether Umberto is common or not in Italy or in Italian is irrelevant. What matters, as John points out, is what is common in English. Academically, people use Umberto I and Umberto II, not Humbert I and Humbert II.
 * Google searches are frankly worthless. They throw up links that are high quality and crap, accurate and complete BS. For example, if I rename this article Humberdink I of Italy and it was left there for a couple of week (and that does happen sometimes when people rename articles and no-one notices), others would copy it and hey presto, you could find google evidence that there was once an Italian king called Humberdink. Google searches in the past have proved that the current Prince of Wales has a surname that he doesn't have, that Prime Minister Gladstone is known by a way that no historian would ever consider calling him. The list of fictions "proved" by google searches is endless. So google searches as evidence of anything is useless. Fear ÉIREANN[[Image:Flag of Ireland.svg|25px]] (talk) 22:38, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 23:06, 3 June 2005 (UTC)

Coincidences section added.
The following section was recently added. I found a single hit on it from Google, from a forum posting... not exactly the most reliable source. Is this a hoax? Or is there a real source for this? SnowFire 04:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

--- Strange Coincidences

King Umberto I' double In Monza, Italy, King Umberto I, went to a small restaurant for dinner, accompanied by his aide-de-camp, General Emilio Ponzia- Vaglia. When the owner took King Umberto's order, the King noticed that he and the restaurant owner were virtual doubles, in face and in build. Both men began discussing the striking resemblances between each other and found many more similarities. a) Both men were born on the same day, of the same year, (March 14th, 1844). b) Both men had been born in the same town. c) Both men married a woman with same name, Margherita. d) The restauranteur opened his restaurant on the same day that King Umberto was crowned King of Italy. e) On the 29th July 1900, King Umberto was informed that the restauranteur had died that day in a mysterious shooting accident, and as he expressed his regret, he was then assassinated by an anarchist in the crowd. ---
 * I read that in Ripley's Believe it or Not!, and actually came here looking for a source. 4.240.120.67 00:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I read that in a book titled "Mysteries of the Unexplained". I lost the book, but recall the story. -- User:lawrence142002 —Preceding undated comment added 04:14, 10 March 2011 (UTC).

 * I think Cracked slideshows are user generated, so the veracity may be questionable, but http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_531_29-mind-blowing-coincidences-you-wont-believe-happened_p29/#22 MMetro (talk) 18:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Searching for the story led me to this blog post from 2013, which points to an esoteric neo-nazi publication calling itself the Italian Thule Association as the originator of the claim in September 2006. Given that they cite no sources, I would say the claim is non-credible and it should be removed. Rocfan275 (talk) 18:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Correction to my previous comment:
 * Further searching led me to a 2004 book on pseudoscience which also included the story, so it is actually older than that. Finding the actual source of the claim might be futile. I could not find the story in any published source about Umberto I or his assassination, and it is not mentioned anywhere on Italian Wikipedia or any of the sources on Umberto I or his assassination, nor on their talk pages. It is almost certainly an internet-era hoax. Rocfan275 (talk) 19:34, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * A second correction: the story appeared in a Ripley's Believe it or Not Book titled Ghost Stories and Plays in 1971 and was republished in the 1982 book Mysteries of the Unexplained as mentioned upthread. Ripley might be the originator, or it might be older. Rocfan275 (talk) 19:57, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Further to that, Google Books has it in a 1969 edition of Ripley's, the 9th printing of a book first published in 1957. Belbury (talk) 09:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

What about the nickname?
Well, aside from the historical assessment on him, Umberto I was actually nicknamed “il Re Buono”, not “il Buono”. The difference is remarkable, since the former is an antonomasia. “Il Buono” should go along with the name (e.g. Amedeo III il Crociato), “il Re Buono” should not. Now, how does this translate into English? “Buono” is just “good”, “buon re” would be “good King”, but “re buono” is not the same as “buon re”! It specifically indicates goodness of heart (that is why such a nickname sounds nasty to anti-monarchists). Yes, English is difficult, I am not joking... --Erinaceus (talk) 21:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Doppleganger story as a legend rather than fact
I've seen multiple attempts - including mine - to add the Umberto doppleganger legend to this page deleted because they 'don't cite reputable sources'. That's the point! It's a legend! It's not a true story that actually happened, the section just notes that this is an urban myth widely circulated about the king. It's notable even though it's not true, it's likely the only reason lots of people have heard of him. Wikipedia can catalogue false claims about famous people as long as it notes those claims are false. Citations from Ripley's et al just show that this is a well-known myth, not that it's actually true. CoyotesKenning (talk) 19:34, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

 * I guess it needs a source that talks about it being a well-known myth. If we're just citing Ripley's type sources which state it as fact (and where introducing it as a "well-known myth" would be WP:OR on our part), we're leaving the reader to decide whether it's true based on what think of Ripley's.
 * I've had a look this morning and can't see any sources out there which offer a historical view of the story. The Guardian article you cited in May doesn't give an opinion either way, it just repeats the story as part of a list of coincidences. Belbury (talk) 09:21, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 9 July 2024
– While there exists several rulers named Humbert I and Humbert II, the two Umbertos who are kings of Italy seem to be the PRIMARYTOPIC for "Umbertos". Векочел (talk) 18:57, 9 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Umberto I of Italy → Umberto I
 * Umberto II of Italy → Umberto II
 * Note: WikiProject Biography has been notified of this discussion. Векочел (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Italy has been notified of this discussion. Векочел (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. Векочел (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Royalty and Nobility has been notified of this discussion. Векочел (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

 * Support per nom and WP:NCROY as it stands, but suggest that it would be preferable to withdraw this RM until the ongoing RfC on titles of European monarchs is closed. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:49, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose The names are meaningless without the country. Dimadick (talk) 11:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose After 20+ years we have mostly got article titling for monarchs right, but the RMs just keep coming .... Johnbod (talk) 17:37, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support As there are no other articles for Umbertos with these regnal numbers, the additional detail is WP:OVERPRECISION not supported by WP:NCROY as it stands. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Relister comment: An RfC on article titles for European royalty is currently ongoing; WP:NCROY's guidance on how to name this article will likely depend on the RfC's result. The RfC began on 22 June 2024, so it should be eligible for closure beginning on 22 July. I would recommend leaving this discussion open until the RfC is closed, to avoid the risk of this RM closure—whatever its specific findings may be—needing to be overturned for reflecting outdated practice. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

 * Oppose for now - pending the result of the RfC mentioned above. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:58, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Umberto I of Italy


text:
Mount Robson Provincial Park

Mount Robson Provincial Park is a provincial park in the Canadian Rockies with an area of 2,249 km$2$. The park is located entirely within British Columbia, bordering Jasper National Park in Alberta. The B.C. legislature created the park in 1913, the same year as the first ascent of Mount Robson by a party led by Conrad Kain. It is the second oldest park in the provincial system. The park is named for Mount Robson, which has the highest point in the Canadian Rockies and is located entirely within the park.

History
The first recreational trail was built in 1913 by Jasper outfitter Donald "Curly" Phillips along the Robson River to Berg Lake.

From May to September, the Mt. Robson Visitor Information Centre is open to the public, and is a common stop on the Yellowhead Highway. The only commercial services within the park are at a combination coffee-shop gas station complex at the same viewpoint. There are two government campgrounds near the Visitor Centre and one near Yellowhead Pass.

Geography
The park spans the Yellowhead Highway and is located 390 kilometres west of Edmonton or 290 kilometres east of Prince George.

The source of the Fraser River is in Mount Robson Provincial Park. A dripping spring just west of a pond at Fraser Pass is the actual source of British Columbia's longest river. It is located 40 km south of the Yellowhead Highway at Lucerne Campground. There are no trails there and the best access is by helicopter from Valemount.

Notable features
Notable natural features found in the park include:
 * Arctomys Cave
 * Berg Lake
 * Kinney Lake
 * Yellowhead Lake

World Heritage Site
In 1990 Mount Robson Park was included within the Canadian Rocky Mountain Parks UNESCO World Heritage Site. Together with the other national and provincial parks that comprise the Canadian Rocky Mountain Parks, the park was recognized for its natural beauty and the geological and ecological significance of its mountain landscapes containing the habitats of rare and endangered species, mountain peaks, glaciers, lakes, waterfalls, canyons, limestone caves and fossils.

title: Mount Robson Provincial Park


text:
Talk:Land-grant university

Older comments
3-2-04 I am trying to determine the historical relationship between "normal schools" and "land- grant universities"; for instance, Illinois State vs. Univ of Ill. Specifially, I'm wondering if it's possible to say that all or most normal schools were not land-grant universities. Can this be addressed in this article; or a new article written for "normal schools"? Or, just help in researching this would be appreciated. :-)

''Shouldn't this be renamed land-grant university? "Land-grant" by itself doesn't mean "land-grant university," does it? (I don't know, maybe it does.)''

I wrestled with that myself, LS. I settled on land-grant, sea-grant, and space-grant because both colleges and universities were involved and because I knew that if that didn't seem correct, you or Jimbo would make a more appropro suggestion. As far as I can tell (I performed a few searches on Google to double check myself and then read through the relevant Acts on Thomas), land-grant, sea-grant and space-grant issues refer to colleges and universities. However, my encyclopedic knowledge is limited and Wikipedia is my adventure in learning about a different style of writing and editing. So, if you've a better suggestion, I'll defer. :-) -Invictus

Well, it's up to whoever can convince the others that he knows what he's talking about. :-) --LS

The Morrill Act specifically aimed at "practical", not "liberal" arts, although its fine print did allow the so-created colleges to teach other stuff. Hence, I deleted the "liberal" reference (which the original writer tried to make read "liberal arts" according to the copy. The lack of space between "college' and "education" I can't seem to correct, as it goes between two lines of text on the work page.Sfahey 16:19, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

List of Universities (27/11/2004)
The list of universities at the bottom of the article is very redundant with the university template also displayed at the bottom. I would edit and remove it myself, but I figured I should ask first in case there's something I'm missing. Thanks. --DiGiT

FWIW, Big 12 Conference, Ivy League, etc. also have their respective templates at the bottom.... Cburnett 20:34, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Seems redundant in any case to me, but oh well. I'll leave it. DiGiT 00:57, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree about it being redundant. But at the moment only my almamatter has the template on it and I don't really want to spend the time linking the rest. :) So I suppose you could consider it a weak form of advertising that it's there. Maybe I'll get the motivation to do it some time and then remove the template.

Or perhaps look at it from the other hand. How can the bulleted list be improved (or even deleted) such that it's not redundant? Maybe listing it by state (some states have multiple colleges)? Cburnett 03:02, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oldest (?) land grant university
Univ. of Maryland was founded way before MSU, and is considered a "land-grant" school. Anyway, the Morrill Act didn't come until much later. The recent edit is questionable. Sfahey 17:31, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Michigan State is the first, how come it was changed?
 * This page is out of control, with now five schools claiming essentially the same recognition, even WITHOUT UMaryland, which dates to ca. 1807 and is also a land grant institution. Any experts out there?Sfahey 20:41, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The last time I studied land-grant universities was four years ago, so unfortunately I can't resolve this debate. But it seems to me that we need to draw a distinction between land-grant institutions that were founded under the auspices of the Morrill Acts and existing institutions that were simply assisted with Morrill Act grants.  --Coolcaesar 23:59, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I could be wrong, but I think The University of Maryland accepted a land grant long after its establishment like many existing universities did. However, there is a history of land grants for universities not related to the Morrill Act that is left out. The state of Georgia set aside 40,000 acres to act as a land grant to start a university in 1784, which was granted to the University of Georgia in 1785. The possession and selling of the 40,000 was the primary financing for UGA's beginning. I know this was the first state land grant to charter a university and it wasn't without its problems. However, I am really curious if any of the colonial universities were founded via land grants through colonial or British charters. Either way the history of the practice of land grant universities in the U.S. needs to be emboldened.  Michigan State University was the first time the U.S. congress used a land grant of federal lands. And many existing univesities became land grant universities long after they were established under the Morril Act (UGA, Rutgers, U of Maryland, and countless other). I want to expand this in the article, but I also want to open this up to discussion first and see if there any more enlightening information out there. Cwkimbro (talk) 21:20, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

And Rutgers isn't the oldest pre-existing university to receive a land grant. Yale (Sheffield Scientific School) is. Greener08 (talk) 17:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Michigan State University is known as the "pioneer land-grant institution" because it was the first to be founded (1855) with an appropriation of public land to finance it; however, that grant was of state-owned land. MSU (known at the time as State Agricultural College) served as a model for the first Morrill Act, and it received Michigan's Morrill grant starting in 1863. Both its founding and Morrill dates precede those of Iowa State (1858 and 1864, respectively), so it seems to me that the Iowa State claim is false — especially in light of Kansas State's 1863 founding. I also think Yale is a special case that bears mentioning here (but not necessarily in the article): according to the Sheffield Scientific School article, the Morrill grant was re-assigned to Storrs Agricultural School in 1893. So if we want to talk about a land-grant school in Connecticut, it's UConn, not Yale. Kevin Forsyth (talk) 14:14, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn't quite correct. Michigan State University does call themselves the "pioneer land-grant institution" and they did serve as a model for the Morrill Act, which is worth mentioning, but as I already stated above they are not the first state to set up a land-grant to found and finance a college. The University of Georgia was founded in 1785 with a land grant of state owned land. Cwkimbro (talk) 23:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Land, Sea and Space Grants
I count at least 13 universities with all three of these designations:

 * University of Alaska Fairbanks
 * Cornell University
 * University of Delaware
 * University of Hawaii at Manoa
 * Louisiana State University
 * University of Maine
 * Massachusetts Institute of Technology
 * University of Minnesota
 * University of New Hampshire
 * Oregon State University
 * University of Puerto Rico
 * Purdue University
 * Texas A&M University

I will change appropriate references at the three relevant pages to reflect this number. Any others? btm 08:13, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd love to know if there are some other references besides btm's own research. For example, the LSU article states there are 21. Earthsound 20:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

First?
Question posed by 67.82.113.64: "Why is Rutgers the 'oldest' if Michigan State was 'chartered' first in 1855?"

Rutgers was founded first, then received a land grant later. Michigan State was the first to be founded with a land grant in its charter. Kevin Forsyth (talk) 16:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

mad
everytime i come to this stupid website it dont give me no answers so bye fudge packers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.136.0.194 (talk) 13:19, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

 * First sentence or paragraph does not say what these universities do. The single characteristic which distinguishes these universities from any other university is described unmeaningfully by the proper name "Morrill Acts of 1862 and 1890". Further reading reveals that, not only is the description insufficient and "Morrill Acts" does not correspondend to "land-grant", but it is in fact false, as there existed universities founded before the Acts existed, and later universities were founded under different legislative acts. —Centrx→talk • 05:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

even if rutgers is the oldest school having received a land grant, the information does not belong in the article as it is trivial within context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.165.59 (talk) 05:44, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

WVSU
Added to "History" that WVSU is the only land-grant university to surrender its land-grant status as well as being the smallest in the country. Seems important enough to at least have a sentence since it is the only one to surrender its status as well as being the smallest. 129.71.208.91 (talk) 13:57, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Land-grant university. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090513215211/http://www.lib.iastate.edu/spcl/exhibits/150/template/timeline-1858.html to http://www.lib.iastate.edu/spcl/exhibits/150/template/timeline-1858.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121021084456/http://www.lincolninst.edu/subcenters/managing-state-trust-lands/publications/trustlands-history.pdf to http://www.lincolninst.edu/subcenters/managing-state-trust-lands/publications/trustlands-history.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:36, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Land-grant university. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150621154306/http://www.ag.iastate.edu/coa150/pop8_20.php to http://www.ag.iastate.edu/coa150/pop8_20.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:32, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

"Agricultural and Mechanical College"
Wikipedia seems to have no content about the general history of the use of the term "Agricultural and Mechanical" in the names of colleges -- only articles about assorted individual US institutions, such as Texas A&M. It would be interesting to know when and where the term originated, how it spread, and how it is dying out. What most similar terms have been used in other countries?-73.61.15.196 (talk) 14:08, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

State Law Precedents
The heading, "State Law Precedents" does not really belong in this article, in my opinion. This little section mentions a few institutions that were established on lands awarded by state legislatures years -- or decades -- before the Morrill Acts. If we're to keep this, we'd have to list dozens more that fall into this category--but since this article is about the land-grant institutions that arose from the federal acts, I recommend deleting "State Law Precedents" here. I've tried to clean this subheading up for now. What do others think?Kfhtoll (talk) 19:14, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Controversy: Seizure of Indian Lands
The appropriation of 'Indian Lands' has been the subject of some controversy. See:

https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/great-university-land-grab — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.38.110 (talk) 13:23, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

isn't "land grant university" more meaningless than anything?
is there anything about a land grant school that differs today from non land grant schools? If there is nothing to point to, shouldn't all those articles across wikipedia that mention it in the lede instead relegate it to the history section? it just seems so wasteful, like saying "this university has had sunny days, and cloudy days." 2603:8001:D3F0:87E0:0:0:0:10D0 (talk) 22:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Land-grant university