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Talk:Abimelech

Untitled
Is Abimelech to be considered a judge inasmuch as a whole chapter is devoted to him in the book of Judges, and that he bears none of the characteristics of those we know to be judges?

Link suggestions
An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Abimelech article, and they have been placed in a handy list for your convenience. — 203.134.197.133 23:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Abimelech Society??
Is the Abimelech Society, a small group apparently devoted to the destruction of Gideon Bibles, noteworthy or encyclopedic? - Smerdis of Tlön 18:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to have this reinstated (possibly in a shortened form) since it is an interesting link to the name in modern culture. Surely it is noteworthy that there is active opposition to the project of the Gideons. Alternatively, the Society, could get its own page linked from here (as with the link for Gideons International from the Gideon disambig. page) but it would be only a very small stub. David O'C 12:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

primary topic
Not sure this is the primary topic, possibly the son of Gideon is. PatGallacher (talk) 15:44, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Please use this space to discuss the proposed merge of Avimelekh into this article. Pinging, who initiated the proposal. Joyous! Noise! 02:56, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 18:30, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Abimelech


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Translatio studii

Translatio studii (Latin for "transfer of learning") is a historiographical concept which originated in the Middle Ages in which history is viewed as a linear succession of transfers of knowledge or learning from one geographical place and time to another. The concept is closely linked to translatio imperii, which similarly describes the movement of imperial dominance. Both terms are thought to have their origins in the second chapter of the Book of Daniel in the Hebrew Bible (verses 39–40).

History of the concept
Translatio studii is a celebrated topos in medieval literature, most notably articulated in the prologue to Chrétien de Troyes's Cligès, composed ca. 1170. There, Chrétien explains that Greece was first the seat of all knowledge, then it came to Rome, and now it has come to France, where, by the grace of God, it shall remain forever more.

In the Renaissance and later, historians saw the metaphorical light of learning as moving much as the light of the sun did: westward. According to this notion, the first center of learning was Eden, followed by Jerusalem, and Babylon. From there, the light of learning moved westward to Athens, and then west to Rome. After Rome, learning moved west to Paris. From there, enlightenment purportedly moved west to London, though other nations laid claim to the mantle, most notably Russia, which would involve a retrograde motion and rupture in the westerly direction. The metaphor of translatio studii went out of fashion in the 18th century, but such English Renaissance authors as George Herbert were already predicting that learning would move next to America.

A pessimistic corollary metaphor is the translatio stultitiae ["transfer of stupidity"]. As learning moves west, as the earth turns and light falls ever westward, so night follows and claims the places learning has departed from. The metaphor of the translatio stultitiae informs Alexander Pope's Dunciad, and particularly book IV of the Greater Dunciad of 1741, which opens with the nihilistic invocation:

Yet, yet a moment, one dim Ray of Light Indulge, dread Chaos, and eternal Night!" (B IV 1-2)

[...]

Suspend a while your Force inertly strong, Then take at once the Poet, and the Song. (ibid. 7-8)

Etymology
While the term translatio studii literally means in English the translation of studies, there is an implication within the concept that the transmission of learning also carried with it cultural ideals and information. That being said, there is a lot more to translatio studii than the simple movement of common concepts from the Mediterranean westward.

According to Karlheinz Stierle, English is what we might consider the current language of this sort of transmission, but "what English is today...Latin was in the first centuries after Christ." In the way that politics and social issues move circulate around the world very often in English, these same concepts traveled along the developing roads from Greece and Italy to England during Medieval times. As religion spread from Rome to Londinium (or present day Britain) it brought with it other concepts that can still be seen in the Romance languages.

An interesting example of this is the term "translatio" itself. In Ancient times translatio in Latin meant both translation and transfer. As time went on, translatio was designated to only mean transmission and traductio took on the meaning of what we know as translation. This carried over to the developing Romance languages as time went on. The words translation in French and traslazione in Italian mean the displacement of physical objects, and these languages still use other words to mean "translation" in the English sense. In this way, it is clear that historically the significance of translatio studii concerns the transfer of ideas that hold cultural value.

Translatio imperii
Translatio imperii often served as a precedent or coordinate to translatio studii. A transferral of rule assisted a transferral of culture, and vice versa: "The transferal of power also conveys the phoenix-like reestablishment of culture - as fictionalized in and transmitted by literature - which establishes each new imperial power as the new stronghold of the culturally elite."

As it is concerned with the progress of learning, translatio studii provides an overview of intellectual heritage. Although it may be considered from various angles (e.g., history, linguistics, and literature) the concept of translatio studii is fundamentally concerned with texts. "Reading, translating, commenting, interpreting, rewriting — all are common intertextual activities of the translatio studii."

Translatio studii is based on the assumption that human learning and the potential for human learning originated in Greece from whence it spread westward to Rome and then France.

Chrétien de Troyes, a French poet of the late 12th century, writes of translatio studii in the opening of Cligès:

Ancient Greek and Roman theatre
All Roman comedy stems from Greek New Comedy but rewritten in Latin with slight adjustments to local taste and the long, narrow stage of Roman theatre. It keeps the characteristics of conventional situations from domestic life and stock character-masks that were traditional in the Greek model.

Roman theatre in turn influenced theatre of the Renaissance. "The nine Greek-style tragedies of Seneca (c. 4 B.C.E. -65 C.E.) are especially noteworthy, partly because they were to have a more profound influence on Renaissance tragedians than their Greek originals." Conventions commonly associated with Renaissance tragedies, most popularly Shakespeare, that are owed to Seneca, are revenge tragedies, structure of five acts, use of elaborate speeches, soliloquies, and asides, violence and horror performed on stage (as opposed to Greek tragedies in which all such actions occurred off stage), and an interest in the human condition, morality of nobility, and the supernatural, specifically with its human connection.

Rome also used the Greek language as a model on which to aid the expansion of their power and secure a language for their empire. According to L. G. Kelly, author of The True Interpreter: A History of Translation Theory and Practice in the West (1979), "Western Europe owes its civilization to its translators."

Anglo-Norman cortoisie and romanz
Cortoisie is a synthesis of the superiority of French knighthood and learning. As a new distinction of the French knight, cortoisie implies not only a new style of communication and mastery of language, but a new style of communicative attitude, especially when regarding women. From cortoisie comes courtly love, a highly disciplined, self-denying, and respectful social form. Ideally, in this form, the knight honors his lady as something sacred. This new ideal of love called for a new ideal of language, according to Chrétien, and so, translations from old, dead Latin into French, or romanz, began. It is this language that replaces Latin as a new and lasting period of high culture, and, in so doing, becomes the real language or medium of translatio studii.

title: Translatio studii


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Talk:The Late Late Show (Irish talk show)

name
Is the show's name a joke? It's not broadcast late at night. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 13:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I would presume that in 1962 9pm WAS in fact considered late night viewing.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.11.149 (talk) 02:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I have only one thing to say...
Ppput the hooker in the clossset —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.228.3 (talk) 10:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC) Ummmm, 'The Tonight Show' has been broadcast by NBC since 1954 in the United States. Isn't THAT the longest running chat show in the world?

Tonight Show is world's longest-running chat show
Those sources are bogus. NBC has broadcast The Tonight Show since 1954. Same broadcaster. Even if you were to play the "uninterrupted" card and claim the "Tonight: America After Dark" era to be a different programme (as some have), you still have The Tonight Show in place since about 1957. 68.146.71.145 (talk) 17:15, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Tonight Show's format has changed completely since then, LLS hasn't. This is dealt with in some of the references, if you'd actually bothered reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.99.23 (talk) 21:56, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The show underwent some format changes over its run, but aside from a brief move to a more news-oriented format in 1957, it has always been a talk show. Even if you just count it from its return to a talk show style format in 1957, it would still be older than The Late Late Show. This isn't meant as a slight against The Late Late Shows very impressive run, but the facts are clearly in favor of The Tonight Show being the longest running talk show on television. Its style and format have changed, but since 1957, those changes did not break away from the overall talk show format. I am in favor of changing the opening paragraph to read 'second-longest running talk show'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrono85 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Just as a matter of interest, the LLS was shown on UK Southern Television or TVS sometime in the 1980s. IIRC, perversely, despite the title, it was shown in the afternoon.

 * IASTR, that Southern or TVS also showed something like Bracken or it may have been Glenroe also in the afternoons, sometime in the 1970/80s. I just remember it had Joe Lynch in it.

 * Upon seeing the screen shot on the Glenroe page, I think it may have been Glenroe and it would have been on TVS that I saw it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 19:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Glenroe got fairly wide distribution on ITV regional stations I believe. UTV was the last to carry it. --109.76.85.127 (talk) 18:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi I know its been a while since this was brought up but we have two wiki pages each saying that their show is the longest running show. I'm Irish and believe me I would love to take any record that says we are number 1 but even I can see a show that started in 1954 and is still ongoing is older than 1962. Unless anyone can prove otherwise I'm going to change the opener to say second longest running show. I really don't want to start an edit war going here so if I am wrong please let me know why. Tcla75 (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

why is this page redirected AFTER the american show? its much older!
When I search late late, this show does not come up first. Why is this?!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.76.67.139 (talk) 03:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Question about the redirect
Do we base redirects like the one at Late Late Show on how old a given program is, or on how much traffic for a given article has. Because if it's the latter, redirecting to an old Irish talk show doesn't make much sense. LHM 17:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Deleting things is no way to improve an article
This article attempts to explain to readers that the Irish Late Late Show existed before the American Late Late Show. This good faith effort at explanation and disambiguation is worthwhile and should not be deleted without proper consideration, but taking the time and effort finding the proper place for this necessary explanatory text is a lot more difficult than casually and inconsiderately deleting the work of other editors. It is far far too easy for deletionists to take the lazy option. Out of sight is out of mind, deleted text does not get improved or fixed, so I'm adding this note so that maybe someone else might fix it, or at least editors will be aware of this next time there is any confusing over the Irish or American Late Late Show. -- 109.76.13.212 (talk) 15:34, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2 February 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Already moved, by User:Unreal7 (non-admin closure) . ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 22:49, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

– Is the Irish show really more notable than the American one? I don't think so. Plus the American one should be disambiguated by its nationality, rather than its channel. Unreal7 (talk) 21:07, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The Late Late Show → The Late Late Show (Ireland)
 * The Late Late Show (CBS TV series) → The Late Late Show (U.S.)
 * The Late Late Show (disambiguation) → The Late Late Show

 * Comment. I am agnostic as to the first and third moves. The second move seems reasonable under the principle that the parenthetical text should be no more specific than that required for proper disambiguation. - dcljr (talk) 07:04, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Support all. The Irish programme is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.  ONR (talk)  21:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Naval Rooftops (talk • contribs)
 * Oppose. The Irish programme is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. However, I'm fine with a move of The Late Late Show (CBS TV series) to The Late Late Show (U.S.).  —  AjaxSmack   02:59, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. No primary topic, disambiguation is equally helpful to them all.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:40, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Support all moves. The handy new article traffic tool shows that "The Late Late Show" is typically viewed less than The Late Late Show (CBS TV series), let alone the different incarnations of the CBS show, suggesting it's not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The dab page should be at the base name. And "(U.S.)" is a much more concise disambiguator than "(CBS TV series)".--Cúchullain t/ c 15:19, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Support all moves. There does not appear to be a primary topic, and disambiguation based on nationality is consistent and concise. + m t  23:33, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Support move to "(U.S. TV series)" and "(Irish TV series)", not (U.S.) or (Ireland). See WP:NCTVUS.  --  Wikipedical (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The Late Late Show (U.S. TV series) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:45, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

The Late Late Show (Irish Talk Show).            History
Suggested Typo correction

The idea for the show was developed by RTE producer Tom McGrath, after he had seen the The Tonight Show while working for a Canadian TV station.[19] He proposed it to Gay Bryne, who "because" the show's first presenter.

Should be:       Gay Byrne, who "became" the show's first presenter.

Baile Atha Cliathach (talk) 10:05, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Done BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 11:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Ryan Tubridy Age
This says in the “hosts” tab that Tubridy is currently hosting the show, but lists his age at 47. Other sources say he was born May 28, 1973 making him 48, almost 49. 2601:83:8100:7C60:F543:ECB5:F2EE:FCC1 (talk) 00:46, 11 May 2022 (UTC)


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Brimstone and Treacle

Brimstone and Treacle is a 1976 BBC television play by Dennis Potter. Originally intended for broadcast as an episode of the series Play for Today, it remained untransmitted until 1987. The play was made into a film version (released in 1982) co-starring Sting. Both versions also star Denholm Elliott.

The play features a middle-aged middle-class couple living in a north London suburb whose life has been catastrophically affected by a hit-and-run accident which has left their beautiful undergraduate daughter totally dependent upon them. Their lives are dramatically changed by the arrival of a mysterious young stranger.

Plot
For two years, Tom and Amy Bates have been struggling to cope with their altered lives, after their daughter Pattie (or Patricia) was severely injured in a hit-and-run accident. Pattie is unable to walk, completely dependent upon others for the activities of daily living, and seemingly unable to communicate beyond making unintelligible sounds. Although poorly educated and gullible, Amy firmly believes that Pattie is able to understand what is being said in her presence, whereas Tom has given up all hope of her recovery. In fact, judging from the sounds she makes, Pattie seems to realise what is going on around her, but Tom is beyond noticing.

One day on his way home from work he witnesses a handsome, well-dressed young man collapse in the street. Tom is among the passersby who offer to help him. The young man, who gives his name as Martin Taylor, quickly recovers. A few hours later he turns up at the Bates', handing Tom his wallet, which Martin pretends Tom lost in the general hubbub. Though the cash is gone, Tom's credit card is still there.

From the moment he enters the house, he casts furtive and knowing glances at the audience (according to the stage directions) so they know at once that he is not what he pretends to be. He claims to have been Pattie's fiancé.

He offers to be at Pattie's side despite the changed circumstances, and care for her for an unspecified period. Amy in particular jumps at the suggestion; she has not had an hour off since Pattie's accident and is stranded in the house without the chance to go even to the hairdressers or do some window-shopping.

Tom is reluctant to accept Martin's help. He has always been very choosy about his daughter's friends, and as he cannot remember Pattie ever mentioning Martin's name, he does not want her to be left alone with what might well be a complete stranger. Eventually Martin wins him over by his excellent cooking and lip service to his politics; Tom has joined the National Front.

At the first opportunity, Martin rapes the helpless Pattie (although in the film version, the rape comes late in the action, precipitating Pattie's return to consciousness shortly after he removes her nappy). When Amy comes back from the hairdressers she recognises a change in her daughter's facial expression, but attributes it to Martin's presence. However, when Martin tries to rape the disabled girl again after Tom and Amy have gone to bed, Pattie starts screaming so loudly that he runs out of the house. When they come to see what has happened to their daughter, they find that she has fully recovered from her disabilities, and though still confused, asks her father what has been happening to her. She also recovers her memories of the events preceding her accident, which result from her discovery of her father's infidelity.

Television version
Brimstone and Treacle was originally written by Potter as a television play, commissioned, paid for and recorded in 1976 by the BBC, for their series Play for Today. The cast were Denholm Elliott (Tom Bates), Michael Kitchen (Martin), Patricia Lawrence (Amy Bates) and Michelle Newell (Pattie); plus minor characters.

The original 1976 play was withdrawn shortly before its scheduled transmission (despite being listed in the Radio Times) because then Director of Television Programmes Alasdair Milne found it "nauseating" though "brilliantly made". It was finally shown in August 1987 and has been released as a DVD. Rewritten by Potter for the stage, the play premiered on 11 October 1977 at the Crucible Theatre, Sheffield and transferred to the West End the following year.

In the introduction to the play script, published in 1978, Potter recalled that "the BBC received several letters of congratulation for 'taking a stand' against the rising tide etc. of filth etc. and blasphemy etc. which ever threatens etc. to swamp our already beleaguered land". Justifying the play, he wrote: "Brimstone and Treacle is an attempt both to parody certain familiar forms of faith and yet at the same time to give them expression. … we cannot even begin to define 'good' and 'evil' without being aware of the interaction between the two. It is from these things the play draws whatever power or whatever disturbance that earned it an unwelcome notoriety."

Film adaptation
A film adaptation was released in 1982. Directed by Richard Loncraine, it stars Denholm Elliott as Bates, Joan Plowright as Norma Bates, Suzanna Hamilton as Pattie, and Sting as Martin. In the film, Mrs. Bates' first name is Norma instead of Amy.

The soundtrack includes works by The Police, Sting, The Go-Go's and Squeeze, while Sting's cover of "Spread a Little Happiness" reached No. 16 in the UK Singles Chart.

Brimstone & Treacle was released to DVD by MGM Home Video in 2003 as a Region 1 widescreen DVD.

Potter on Brimstone and Treacle
In 1978, Potter said:"I had written Brimstone and Treacle in difficult personal circumstances. Years of acute psoriatic arthropathy — unpleasantly affecting skin and joints — had not only taken their toll in physical damage but had also, and perhaps inevitably, mediated my view of the world and the people in it. I recall writing (and the words now make me shudder) that the only meaningful sacrament left to human beings was for them to gather in the streets in order to be sick together, splashing vomit on the paving stones as the final and most eloquent plea to an apparently deaf, dumb and blind God. [...] I was engaged in an extremely severe struggle, not so much against the dull grind of a painful and debilitating illness, but with unresolved, almost unacknowledged 'spiritual' questions."

title: Brimstone and Treacle


text:
Talk:Scottish Premier League

Should Not Redirect From "Scottish Premier Division"
This page should not appear when you type "Scottish Premier Division" into the search box. The Scottish Premier Division refers to the old league and this situation is annoying when you wish to find league standings for the SPD as this page only provides links for the SPL years - 1998 - 2008. At the very least, the box at the bottom with links to "Scottish Premier League seasons" should include seasons before 1998. Blankfrackis (talk) 23:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

 * If you look at this category: Category:Scottish Premier League seasons, You can see their are some premier division articles, I don't know if you are aware of that, before that there are the seasons in Scottish football articles. I don't know how to categorise the premier division articles as that is obliviously not the correct category but the league name changed very often so it would not be wise to create a category for every time the league changed it's name or to put those articles in a template which is for SPL seasons. If there were more top-division articles from before the SPL started, they could be categorised as for example: top-flight football in Scotland before x but obliviously it is not worth creating a category like that for four articles. If that makes any sense, I am sure it doesn’t. Darryl.matheson (talk) 13:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't say it matters whether they have their own category or whether they're put in the same category, so long as there's an easy way to access them. At present the Scottish Premier Division articles are in some sort of limbo where they are neither fully integrated with the SPL articles nor given their own category. For instance, in this article the "Prior to 1998/99" section discusses the existence of the Premier Division, but the link just redirects straight back to the SPL page. If someone was interested in looking for information on the Premier Division they really have no easy way to find it - typing "Scottish Premier Division" takes you to the SPL page and the link in this article to the Premier Division also redirects to the SPL page. I think either the Premier Division should be fully discussed in this article or it should just have its own page - the latter option being the best in my opinion as you wouldn't need to greatly change the SPL article. Blankfrackis (talk) 15:34, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I have to agree with Blankfrackis, the page for the Scottish Premier DIVISION should NOT redirect! The sooner this is sorted the better! 77.102.138.219 (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Peterhead & Elgin City
Text from Scottish Football League, but concerning this league, says "When the SPL decided to expand from ten to twelve clubs in 2000 the league elected two new clubs, Peterhead and Elgin City." This would be consistent if this article were older, but a list of the SPL teams shows 12 SPL teams, none of them including the two in question; on the same article, the two are (still?) included in SFL. --Jerzy 15:55, 2003 Nov 12 (UTC)

It means that the league (SFL) elected them into membership to replace the two clubs they lost to the SPL, not that the SPL elected them to their membership. Big Jim Fae Scotland

Scottish Premier League 1-0 Scottish Premierleague
If you look at the SPL's site, you will see that it says "The Official Scottish Premier League Website". So the page should be kept at Scottish Premier League SimonMayer 13:46, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * The sponsorship name does seem to be Bank of Scotland Premierleague though, so I've added that to the article. Sjorford 14:02, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Can anyone find a citation for the new name: 'HBOS Premiership'?

HBOS Premiership?
No-one I know has heard from any official sources that the name has been changed to the "HBOS Premiership". This change would make no sense as HBOS is a purely corporate identity and has no real significance where consumers are concerned. Besides, the Bank of Scotland's (or HBOS's or Halifax & Bank of Scotland's) sponsorship of the SPL ends at the end of season 2006-07 and will not be renewed. This makes a name change for this season even more ridiculous.

 * A search on Google for "HBOS Premiership" does return several hundred results though, so it can't just have been a figment of someone's imagination. Kennethmac2000 21:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that is because English people sometimes apply the names of their competitions to competitions in other leagues. 82.41.202.199 17:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Record Win
The Record Win on the page states it as being the 8-1 scoreline my beloved Dunfermline got hammered by last year.

There are however been a few 7-0's down the years and surely they hmust have at least some equal claim to the title, as the margin of victory was seven goals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan86 (talk • contribs)

 * Nah, sorry mate - doesn't work that way - 7-0 might arguably match 8-2, but 8-1 will always beat 7-0 - more goals! :P Camillus (talk) 12:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

 * How does 8-2 match 7-0? 7-0 Is a seven-goal lead, with a clean sheet, surely making it just as high a win as 8-1, possibly higher as the other team failed to score! 86.132.164.8 14:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

SPL Record: All-time appearances
On the all-time records page, the goal difference doesn't add up with Rangers as it leaves them 100 goals short. Just a small point! lol

I appreciate the SPL all-time appearance record is stated as being held by Barry Smith on the official SPL site but is strikes me that this is somewhat out of date, given Barry Smith left the SPL a couple of seasons ago and there are still players playing who have featured in every SPL season. Steven Pressley, for example, has 272 SPL appearances and Russell Anderson has 266. I'm sure there are several others with more than 242, anybody have any suggestions? Caledonian Place 09:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I have changed this to Steven Pressley, who has 277 SPL apperances now. I had accidently added some pre-SPL lge appearances to Russell Anderson, he only has 230 in the SPL-era (did he miss a season thorugh injury?)

 * I did a quick check of current squads for veterans of every SPL season, and only came up with (correct to 22/2/07, if soccerbase is up to date): Barry Nicholson (240), Scott Severin (230), Darren Young (208), Stefan Klos (208), Scott Wilson (192), Roddy McKenzie (153). Other potentials, who haven't played every season, such as Neil Lennon, Barry Ferguson, Jim Hamilton,Stevie Crawford, Martyn Corrigan are all in the low 200s. Again, if anyone else knows differently, please change.

 * Given that Pressley is a current player and his total is liable to change every week, I added the proviso Correct to the end of the 2005-06 season, at which point he had made 257 SPL appearances.Caledonian Place 00:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

LOCK THIS PAGE FOR GOD'S SAKE
Look at the vandalism committed by bored Old Firm fans! I presume the people (or person) involved are Celtic fans. Lock the page ASAP because it's very childish. I wish Old Firm fans would just grow up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Psyklax (talk • contribs) 13:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Sorry, I forgot to sign my comment. I've searched the section on vandalism to see how to lock a page from unregistered users (the ones doing the vandalism) but it doesn't say how. Anybody know? It'll save a lot of bother. Psyklax 13:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have put a request for semi-protection here. Bubba hotep 13:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

+
Чемпионат Шотландии по футболу --JukoFF 15:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

PES6 Option File (Little OT)
I see that on PES6 there are only 2 SPL teams, and are therefore using all the blank teams to turn my game into a game which has all the SPL teams and SF1 teams except Airdrie United and Ross County as i can't fit two on and they are the lowest ranked in SF1. So i was just wondering, if i was to create all the Other Leagues C into SPL & SF1 teams how many would download it. I have made the base for this and am creating the kits and players now. I will get most of the stats for players off of FIFA but will create the others based on other skills, etc. Celticfan383 14:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Worth Remarking on Lopsided League
Is it notable that one of two teams always wins the league? The article doesn't refer to this, but it strikes me as an unusual characteristic of a sports league.

Really? It happens in England too, either Chelsea or Man U or Arsenal... and Spain, and Holland and France and Italy and Germany...--81.129.79.158 16:46, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention Portugal, Belgium, Ukraine, Croatia... plus whats the point in highlighting something that the reader can then scroll down to discover for themselves? --82.9.29.178 11:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Entry Criteria
Possibly should mention that certain clubs such as Dunfermline and St.Johnstone, who suffered serious financial trouble in order to have their stadiums reach the criteria (their fans) are offended by the lowering of the criteria.

Prize Money
Can we get some info on the prize money for finishing 1st, 2nd etc?

per head of population, more people in Scotland watch their domestic top level league
Per head of population, more people in Scotland watch their domestic top level league than any other nation in Europe.[1]

WRONG !

its Iceland

Seriously though, is what Clydesdale Bank's Steve Reid said in 2006 a reliable source as per WP:V? 91.107.105.240 (talk) 23:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Under-21 ruling
Can someone add a bit of information about the exact under-21 ruling compared to other leagues?

Fair use rationale for Image:Scottish Premier League logo.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Standings
This can (and often does) result in the team placed 7th having a higher points total than the team placed 6th. It's not immediately obvious as to how this happens from the article, though it is explained on one of the season pages. Why are the pools divided into top and bottom instead of equal(ish) strength (1,4,5,8,9,12 & 2,3,6,7,10,11) for the last section and the table contunued to be ranked on points as normal?

The theory behind it was that the top half would play against each other to decide Championship and European places, while the bottom half would decide relegation.

Relegation battles generally only involve 2 or 3 teams, so the other bottom 6 teams are left with meaningless games. Although it regularly happens that 7th has more points than 6th, this can be partially explained by the 7th placed team having easier fixtures to finish with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossi 1983 (talk • contribs) 14:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Map
Can someone fix the map showing locations of each team? I know Pittodrie and Tannadice will be waterlogged, but they dont play in the North Sea. Thanks ← κεηηε∂γ  ( talk ) 09:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Strike that, seems it was a problem on my end. ← κεηηε∂γ ( talk ) 20:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

 * The problem with the map is that it doesn't work properly at certain screen resolutions. Perhaps someone has the skills/software to reproduce the map manually and insert it as an image? Franky843 (talk) 14:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Why are Hearts not on the map at all? Also Hibs appear to be based in Fife when I view the map on my computer, however that may be a resolution problem as described above I suppose.92.236.245.163 (talk) 07:20, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have now added Hearts to the map having worked out how it works. They appear where Edinburgh should be as it appears on my computer so hopefully it looks right for others.92.236.245.163 (talk) 07:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Top Scorers
Shouldn't there only be the top ten top scorers instead of 13? Or is it just a random number? If yes I could exand it to 20. Gregor cox (talk) 12:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears that 13 is the number of players who have scored over 50 goals, but 50 is an arbitrary figure. I think it would be better if it were simply the top 20 scorers of all time. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

 * The problem, as demonstrated in the table right now, is that there's a pretty long tail to the top scorers once you get outside the top four. Over half of the current top 10 are still active, and the bottom end of the table is likely to change weekly for the rest of the season. It's pretty much always going to be an arbitrary cutoff. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I think personally we should go with a top 20 at the end of every season, for the sake of tidiness. That would take it down to 43 goals. It seems to me too that there is some disparity in the scorer levels. Riorden is shown as 68, I have him at 71 and Novo too. Does anybody have a source for up to date table of this rather than adding players totals on Soccerbase or similar? Flyingscot (talk) 21:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I dont know if this has already been mentioned but henrik larsson scored 158 goals in the 'SPL' not 174 his first season does not count as that was still the 'first division'. So that needs amending thank you Monkeymanman (talk) 18:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"Fans" section
So there's a single-purpose account dedicated to ensuring that the various Famine Song / McCarthy controversies are mentioned wherever Scottish football is. This isn't something unique to Scottish football and in general is a pretty transparently manufactured outrage, so I reckon the section should be removed. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I can see the interest but it would be better as an article of it's own which details the various controversies rather than adding similar text to multiple articles. srushe (talk) 15:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Disagree. Given inappropriate songs by fans during SPL were covered on television (BBC and STV) and newspapers this is a prominant issue. I think coverage of this issue may lead to a reduction in the problem. I don't think this issue should be swept under the carpet.  Liam.shaw.glasgow (talk  22:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 * If you re-read my comment you'll see that I suggested a separate article for this rather than having this information spread through multiple different articles. It's an issue related to Scottish football, not just the Premier League, so it's not appropriate for this article. We should also be careful not to use wikipedia as a soapbox. srushe (talk) 22:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Including information about fans in a entry about the SPL is common sense. Fans attend SPL games and the SPL has responsibility for their behaviour. I'm completely amazed you wouldn't want to include a discussion about fans at SPL games. Should Scotland not be mentioned in an article about the United Kiingdom since Scotland has it's own wiki entry elsewhere?  (talk  contribs) 16:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 * is this appropriate for this article or is it more suited in articles with this in the topic 'The Herald journalist Doug Gillon suggested "the sectarian intolerance which divides Scottish society [...] is rooted in anti-Irish racism." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.174.160 (talk) 01:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I dont think this section is needed never mind that sentence. I propose to delete it(Monkeymanman (talk) 15:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC))

 * I removed the section due to it being Contentious and disrespectful to SPL ‘fans’. Why should this focus on fan misbehaviour on the SPL home article.  There are other places on Wikipedia devoted to the inclusions made.(Monkeymanman (talk) 18:07, 11 November 2009 (UTC))

 * If this section is to be left in then the statements of pov from newspaper journalists should be removed(Monkeymanman (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

"European Qualification" section
I've updated this section to reflect the fact that the Scottish Cup runner up is no longer able to claim a Europa League place even if the winner has already qualified via the league.

The above is factually incorrect. Gordon Smith (SFA Chief Exec) claimed this, but he was wrong. Check out UEFA.com for details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.240.194 (talk) 02:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Kris Boyd
did Kris Boyd not score 39 in a season between Rangers and kilmarnock in 2005-6 when it states Larsson is the top scorer in one season season with 35? 86.11.162.214 (talk) 17:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He only scored 32. Larsson scored 35 in 2000–01. See this table, or the Kris Boyd article. – LATICS   talk  23:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Greatest Number of Hat-Tricks: Steven McLaren
Can anyone tell me who this person is? Admittedly I am a casual watcher of the SPL, but have never heard of him, despite the 'fact' that he scored 12 hat tricks (so, at least 36 goals?) between 1998-2004 (and, who for?). Does anyone have a link to anything that proves he scored these goals? The reference given (69) is no longer valid, and the stats page of the SPL official website (http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s72) does not contain this stat-in fact, it says it should be Henrik Larsson. Macgruer (talk) 16:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

This 'fact' is not true, I think it should be Larsson with 12 hattricks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.111.39 (talk) 03:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

All time top goal scorer
Hey I fixed the amount of goals Henrik Larsson scored back to 158 somebody(celtic fans) changed it to 174. When Boyd beats his record this season what picture of Boyd should go up instead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.2.64.8 (talk) 23:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

SPL Stadium pictures
Should there be only one picture from one stadium in that section or none at all. In a NPOV stance there would be a picture of each stadium mentioned would there not?(Monkeymanman (talk) 12:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC))
 * Images are not mentioned in WP:NPOV. It is illustrative and factual - further up, there is a picture of Rangers playing in a European match - is that also showing a POV? Don't be absurd. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 12:34, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I dont think i mentioned rangers in my question but nevermind, i was trying to get at the point that there are good pictures for all stadiums in the spl on their own articles and they could each be included perhaps.(Monkeymanman (talk) 16:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC))
 * 12 pictures for one short section would be overkill (see NOTREPOSITORY). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 17:18, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * suppose so(Monkeymanman (talk) 17:41, 14 January 2010 (UTC))

Club managers and captains
should club captains be included in this section or should it revert back to only the managers? My fear is that the table will continue to expand until just about every position within each club is accounted for. Or there could be an agreement to leave it with managers and captains to prevent this. Monkeymanman (talk) 22:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Cup Winners for the Champions League?

Cup Winners for the Champions League? This section is obviously wrong. Please correct it who have knowledge of Scottish Football.南九州国際 (talk) 13:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Largest victory
spl is wrong!!! about highest win. it is not 9 0 Celtic against Aberdeen it is 10 0 rangers vs hibs ran 10 hibs 0 no joke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.21.180 (talk) 20:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You are incorrect. The Scottish Premier League was only created in 1998, succeeding the Scottish Football League Premier Division. There was a Rangers 10–0 Hibs result in the 1890s, but this was in a Scottish Football League competition. The Celtic 9–0 Aberdeen result is the largest margin of victory in an SPL match, ie a Scottish top division match since 1998. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Statistics
I'm thinking of changing the look of the "Championships" table under the "Statistics" section to something like this:

Does anyone have an opinion on it? Is it too much? Cal Umbra (talk) 15:05, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Rangers
This article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9335076/Rangers-to-be-excluded-from-SPL-fixture-list.html

states that Rangers are not included in the SPL list for next year, so I have updated the article to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dingowasher (talk • contribs) 09:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You're getting ahead of yourself. Yes, edit the section to show that there is doubt over whether "Rangers" (whatever that will mean) will compete next season, but it isn't confirmed either way. If they're not in the list of current clubs, they would have to be in the list of former clubs. Until there is a definitive event to say that Rangers will not be in the SPL next season (say by them being replaced by another club), the safer course is to leave them, but to make an explanatory note. James Morrison (talk) 09:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Rangers F.C have won most titles
But Rangers have won 54 titles so I am editing it so its valid. You want proof heres proof http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/06/13/rangers-in-crisis-history-of-the-club-will-live-on-after-liquidation-insist-ibrox-club-s-fans-86908-23895122/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.221.87 (talk) 01:45, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I reverted the good faith edits. First, citations belong in the article, not here on the talk page. See WP:CITE. Second, this article is just about the Scottish Premier League which was only formed in 1998. Rangers may have won 54 titles overall, but not from this league specifically. Other leagues, even this league's forerunners don't count in this matter. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 04:33, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok I get it now. I thought it was the same league but its not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.221.87 (talk) 05:48, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:SPL map
Template:SPL map has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:54, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Scottish Premier League