text:
Talk:Home Secretary

Old discussions
What the hell does it mean to say that the Lord Chancellor is unelected? All British cabinet ministers are unelected... john 08:29, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

He hasn't been elected as an MP (he's a hereditary peer IIRC.)

 * Well, I guess. But historically, most Lord Chancellors have been MPs when they are made Lord Chancellor.  Then they are granted a peerage.  Just about every Lord Chancellor, save Lord Bathurst, who inherited his title after he ceased to be Lord Chancellor, has been a peer of first creation (well, the 2nd Lord Hailsham is weird, because he renounced his hereditary peerage and then was granted a life peerage in order to become Lord Chancellor).  At any rate, it's utterly insane to say that the office is bad because its holder is unelected.  Whether or not someone is elected as an MP, I don't see what that has to do with the selection process for ministers, who are all chosen by the PM, at this point (and officially chosen by the Queen).  At any rate, this is an issue from two months ago, so no real need to do anything about it - I already corrected the article. john 00:47, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

annointment of bishops
Should this be anointment or appointment? I don't think Church of England bishops are normally an(n)ointed! rossb 16:09, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Bishops are annointed, it's part of their investiture ceremony Gymnophoria (talk) 22:53, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Proposed move to Home Secretary

 * Support Common name jguk 23:27, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * support. I know we don't always use common names for offices, but this one's formal name is only used in really formal documents issued by the government.  Pretty much every link to it will want to use "Home Secretary" as the link text, it would be easier this way.  Morwen - Talk 23:29, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - agreed. violet/riga (t) 23:44, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support, though the formalism sits well with me. ;-) James F. (talk) 09:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Even the Home Office website calls Clarke "Home Secretary". The official title is too obscure as the ministry is now called the "Home Office" not the "Home Department". Timrollpickering 09:34, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support, standard usage. Berek 12:45, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - "common names" rule. --rbrwr± 13:04, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Gareth Hughes 15:43, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support rossb 16:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support john k 16:09, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) (should we combine Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs at Foreign Secretary? Of course, even Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs is already not unique, since the French had one in the 18th century, and foreign secretary might apply to German State Secretaries for Foreign Affairs of the late 19th/early 20th centuries)
 * Both "Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs" and even "Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs" are often still used in common discourse and a lot lists that aim to use the formal title (whereas this post is often formalised to "Secretary of State for Home Affairs"). But I'd agree with merging the pages in - the formal merger isn't that major a landmark in the history of the position and a continuous list from Fox to Straw is more useful. Timrollpickering 19:42, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Should we put the whole list at Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, and simply explain that it used to be just the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs? That would pave the way for turning Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs into a disambiguation page, which it probably should be...although we'd need to change a lot of links to do that, I think. john k 20:22, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Susvolans (pigs can fly) 17:38, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

---Discussion---
 * I am a bit cautious about this move. The title Home Secretary may well be used by cabinet ministers of other countries, particularly Commonwealth countries. Therefore, even the present title might show limited geographic bias. Gareth Hughes 00:09, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't believe the term is used elsewhere. Can you cite an example? jguk 09:39, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Statistics from the top 200 of a Google search, using www.google.com/nsr to reduce bias towards Britain:

 * 180 (90%) refer to the British minister.
 * 7 refer to counterpart ministers outside Britain.
 * 4 use the phrase "Shadow Home Secretary".
 * 1 refers to the "home secretary of the National Academy of Sciences".
 * 8 (4 in the top 10) talk about secretaries working from home.
 * Susvolans (pigs can fly) 13:48, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup, it looks like the UK is the only country to have a Cabinet minister titled Home Secretary: I'll add my name to support. Gareth Hughes 15:43, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * as a matter of interest, what countries did the 7 ministers outside Britain represent? rossb 16:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * India, France, Nepal, either Pakistan or Pakistani Punjab, also in Pakistan, Czech Republic, and Indian Punjab. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 17:38, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * France doesn't have a minister actually called the Home Secretary. They have a Minister of the Interior.  So, I would imagine, does the Czech Republic.  I am uncertain about Nepal, India, and Pakistan. john k 20:22, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 18:59, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jurisdiction over N. Ireland?
Is not Northern Irish law also separate from English law? Does the Home Secretary have jurisdiction there too? --Jfruh 14:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Social policy
The section on social issues needs changing - social exclusion has never sat with the Home Office, and voluntary sector and race policy has now moved. I'll look to change this as soon as I can. Greycap 20:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Moving this out again
The page's been moved here and has been comfortable for over a year. But all things change, WP grows, and the time has come to recognise that while no other country has a cabinet-rank internal affairs minister who calls himself the home secretary, several other countries have very prominent officials who are known as the home secretary. People should prepare themselves for a change to this page in the near future. Hornplease 06:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

 * "Home Secretary" is, I think, a primary usage for the British cabinet member.  john k 15:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Separation of justice issues from home secretary
Is this really that unusual? The Home Secretary is like a continental interior minister, not a justice minister, and most continental countries have a separate justice minister who deals with such things. john k 15:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

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Wrong dates
The terms of office had Kenneth Clarke and Kenneth Baker as Home Secretary at the same time, and David Waddington and Douglas Hurd overlapping by several months. I have corrected these. If anyone finds any more, please check against the ref I added. Richard75 (talk) 01:15, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was unanimous support for move now and unanimous support for move in 2005. This is essentially a revert of an undiscussed page move that was against consensus (and the relevant guideline) when done, though it likely the mover was not aware of prior discussion.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Move to "Home Secretary"
This was proposed back in 2005, but it seems to have been moved back despite positive concensus for the initial move. "Home Secretary" is much more commonly used, and Home Secretary already redirects here. "Secretary of State for the Home Department" is a pretty ugly formulation. YeshuaDavid (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

To answer Septentrionalis, there was a minor debate before on this page about other countries using the "Home Secretary" title, but given the redirect already exists I don't think that's a major issue. The "interior ministry" page only designates Britain as having a Home Secretary by that title. Many countries such as France designate their counterpart as an "interior minister", or some such similar title.YeshuaDavid (talk) 19:47, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

 * Support, "Home Secretary" much more common YeshuaDavid (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Support; the only question is whether other countries have "Home Secretaries"; probably not, from the redirect. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move
Secretary of State for the Home Department → Home Secretary — This page was moved without warning a couple of days ago by User:Jimmi Hugh to "Secretary of State for the Home Department", despite two consecutive move requests, in 2005 and in May this year, that have seen universal support from other editors. I would like this article to be moved back to "Home Secretary", and for it to recieve move protection. I have posted a comment on Jimmi Hugh's talkpage, although he received a 24hr block from something unrelated to this page shortly after making the move, and it looks like it has only just expired. YeshuaD avid  •  Talk  • 18:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Comment I've started a thread at ANI asking for this to be speedy closed as too close to the previous discussion as I suspect this would be if it was an AfD or similar. Obviously the result of the previous discussion would then stand and this would be moved back to Home Secretary. Dpmuk (talk) 23:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Disagree with move, Support it being returned to Home Secretary. The naming conventions are very clear - WP:COMMONNAME says that when titling an article one should "title an article using the most common name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article". "Home Secretary" is certainly by far more commonly used and known than Secretary of State for the Home Department. Ironholds (talk) 00:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've now returned it to Home Secretary with the summary "Both consensus and WP:COMMONNAME are clear ("title an article using the most common name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article"). Consider this the Revert stage of the WP:BRD process". Obviously it explains itself. Consensus is clear on the matter, and the initial move was made against that consensus. Ironholds (talk) 00:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

stub
This tells you little about the office and should be treated as a stub. The list of home-secretaries belongs on a page of its own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 11:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

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Style
I've noticed someone has edited the style for all cabinet ministers and added "Mr/Madam Secretary" - this sounds terribly American so I will change this within the week unless a source is provided to support this style of address.

Loobeloo (talk) 09:34, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I've worked for many years in the Home Office and other Government departments as well. Secretaries of State are never referred to as Mr or Madam Secretary. In speech or writing she would be addressed as Home Secretary. Source: http://www.debretts.com/forms-address/professions/government-and-civil-service/ministers-hm-government. The Right Honourable is a personal honorific for a Privy Counsellor, and may be acquired before becoming a cabinet member and retained after leaving office. The style is not associated with the ministerial position. So both need removing. 2A02:C7F:A60D:8D00:419F:2465:B71C:F7A2 (talk) 23:32, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Globalization
I've placed a Globalize/UK template on the article, because the UK isn't the only country in the world with an office known as "Home Secretary". Bangladesh, India, and Australia, at the least, have government officials with that title. Largoplazo (talk) 13:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I propose moving this page to Home Secretary (United Kingdom), and then converting this to a disambiguation page with links pointing there as well as to new redirects for Home Secretary (India), etc., each leading to the appropriate section of the article on the respective country's counterpart to the Ministry of Home Affairs. Largoplazo (talk) 13:55, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose in English the British Home Secretary would be the common name and none of the others have an article named "Home Secretary (foo)" so I dont see any reason to move this one. MilborneOne (talk) 18:44, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A topic doesn't have to have an article if it's discussed somewhere here and if it's a legitimate target for an ambiguous term. It's a fact that Wikipedia explains at least four different Home Secretary offices. We help users find information whether or not a whole article is devoted to it. If there's consensus that for Wikipedia users, the British Home Secretary is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, then I can see not moving this one and, instead, putting an "other uses" hatnote at the top that points to a disambiguation page. But I'm a little doubtful that such a consensus would be achieved, as there's no reason why the UK Home Secretary would be any more the "regular" one than any of the others. Largoplazo (talk) 19:00, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I dont have a problem with you adding a disambiguation page link to Home Secretary (disambiguation) to the top of this article but as none of the other articles are named "Home Secretary (foo)" you would have to check that dab page rules allow this. MilborneOne (talk) 19:06, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have to check the rules. I started this discussion knowing full well that the rules encourage and discuss the preferred approaches to this. :-) See MOS:DABSECTION. Largoplazo (talk) 20:05, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

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Secretary of State's Official Title
I made edits on each article for the Secretary of States for the Home Department to change it to that name as it said 'Home Secretary'. I have found that all my edits were reverted because 'the official name isn't usually used'. I don't believe that the Foreign Secretary is usually referred to as 'Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs' yet that's what it is called on the Wikipedia page. Will someone please back me in changing the name to 'Secretary of State for the Home Department'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanofpolitics (talk • contribs) 15:49, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Please look above at the section Talk:Home Secretary above. It is very clear that there has been strong support and consensus for the term "Home Secretary". Dormskirk (talk) 17:52, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Yep; doubts about this article’s name are clearly a recurring thing, but the main guideline is "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used"; and in this case consensus (again clearly) always favours following the guideline. – 00:14, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
 * PS (meant to say these the first time!):
 * a) Thanks for coming to the Talk page rather than re-reverting / edit-warring.  And for asking explicitly about support.  It’d be good if more people did it your way!  I think of myself as basically a newbie, and I’m always rather uncomfortable tht WP:BRD lays the onus to go to the Talk page on the 'victim' - the contributor whose work has been cancelled - rather than on the reverter.
 * b) re Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs: yes, the setup there is inconsistent with this article, and with the guideline.  Do you want to raise the question on that Talk page?  There was a brief discussion there in 2009, but the guideline went unmentioned, except by a contributor who had missed the closure.  2009 is long ago enough to reopen.  Generally, consistency between articles seems to be considered a weak argument, on Wikipedia - perhaps because guidelines are seen as emergent, reflecting established practice after it has become established.  But (for that reason?), once a guideline is in place it seems to be a strong argument.  And to me, the complicated pattern of the history of the Foreign Secretary post (Colonial Secretaries etc etc) suggests to me tht the term in current common use, Foreign Secretary, needs to be the reader’s starting-point there and should be the article name.
 * – SquisherDa (talk) 09:51, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

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Is there too much focus on current Home Secretary as opposed to the office?
I am not sure the paragraph in the opening section relaying current Home Secretary Priti Patel's significance as the 4th female/2nd BAME Home Sec is appropriate, nor the section outlining her stance on the 'Black Lives Matter' protests. The paragraphs would seem to paint a the latter comments in a positive/neutral light when they were not uncontroversial and would benefit from further contextualisation in a more appropriate space, namely the biographical entry for Priti Patel. This article is about the office, not the individual currently holding it who has her own Wikipedia entry - These extra biographical details were not provided when Sajid Javid held the office, for example, which merely stated that he was the current Home Secretary and had held the office since 2018 with a link to his personal biographical entry. 92.232.192.53 (talk) 12:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've removed that, suggesting that the Patel article would be a more appropriate location for the material. EddieHugh (talk) 21:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Capitalization of lede
Per MOS:JOBTITLES, references to titles are not capitalized except in very particular circumstances, such as before a name. User:DuncanHill apparently feels strongly that an exception should be made for this article, because in "the article title, Secretary is capitalised." Of course, in every article about an office, the article title is headline-style capped, while references to the office in the text of the article, including the lede sentence, are lowercase unless they meet the very particular exceptions in MOS:JOBTITLES. Unless User:DuncanHill can think of a reason why this article is different from all the other articles about offices, there is no reason to make an exception in this particular case, and the MOS rule should be enforced.

Interested users are welcome to peruse my edit history or User:Eyer's for instances of the appropriate application of MOS:JOBTITLES in article ledes and elsewhere.

Wallnot (talk) 23:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Just following up on this. If any interested editors could chime in, I'd appreciate it. The consensus process is impossible if interested parties refuse to participate in discussion at all, much less in good faith.

 * That said, under the terms of the Manual of Style, there is no requirement that an editor seek consensus on an individual article's talk page before applying an MOS rule. In fact, the opposite is true: the editor seeking an exception is required to obtain consensus on an individual article's talk page (see MOS:VAR). Indeed, requiring an editor to seek consensus before applying an MOS rule would make the entire MOS project rather pointless.

 * Regardless of who is responsible for seeking consensus, there is no reason to make such an exception here. DuncanHill contends that my attempt to lowercase the title in the lede sentence of this article is an unforeseen "obnoxious result" of an otherwise applicable MOS rule. This is, of course, false; this is a pretty basic application of a longstanding MOS rule. Though users who are unfamiliar with conventions of style often mistakenly uppercase titles in the lede sentence of articles about particular offices, the rule is that these are lowercase—DuncanHill's contention that. Many editors, myself included, devote our time to applying this rule and correcting misconceptions about it. There's no reason to make an exception to this rule in this one particular article about a title; i.e., there is nothing about "home secretary" that justifies its being uppercase while, say, "United States secretary of state" is lowercase.

 * If DuncanHill or others with to change this rule, they are welcome to seek consensus on the MOS's talk page (again, see MOS:VAR, "If you believe an alternative style would be more appropriate for a particular article, discuss this at the article's talk page or—if it raises an issue of more general application or with the MoS itself—at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style."

 * Note also that I am not proposing to change the title of this article. Convention on Wikipedia is that the titles of articles about offices are headline-capitalized, while the references to those offices in the lede sentence of an article are sentence-style capitalized. DuncanHill's observation, "I don't know if you've seen the article title, Secretary is capitalised," is therefore irrelevant.

 * Thanks in advance for contributing to this discussion. Wallnot (talk) 15:13, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

 * I've started a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style concerning the capitalisation of UK political offices. If you're interested, you can find it here. I think that this is an interesting issue to discuss, because it seems that a lot of people feel very strongly about it and it seems to come up all the time. For my part, I've put forward three reasons why MOS:JOBTITLES should be changed, at least for UK political offices. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 17:04, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Following up here to link to the discussion FollowTheTortoise started at the MOS talk page, which did not result in a consensus for changing MOS:JOBTITLES. You can find the complete discussion here.

 * To summarize everything that has been discussed here and there: editors seeking an exception to an MOS rule are required under MOS:VAR to establish a consensus for that exception on an individual article's talk page, or else by seeking consensus for a change to the rule itself at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style. However, the conclusion of the discussion FollowTheTortoise initiated showed a strong consensus in favor of continuing to apply MOS:JOBTITLES to articles about UK political offices. If any editor still wishes to change how the lede of this particular article is capitalized, they should try to obtain consensus for that change on this page. As the rule currently stands, however, the lede will not be capitalized.

 * Thanks, Wallnot (talk) 16:27, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks Wallnot. I am by no means an expert in styling documents, so I appreciate you directing me to MOS:JOBTITLES. However, I stand by my belief that "home secretary" should be "Home Secretary". Regarding the comparison with "United States secretary of state", I would say that should be capitalised: "United State Secretary of State". Ditto for "Home Secretary". The fact that Wikipedia, Oxford, Chicago, etc. have a particular convention for capitalisation is irrelevant if that doesn't accurately reflect the English language. Given the fact that every edition I can see of this page used the styling "Home Secretary" until 30 January 2021 (perhaps I'm wrong), I think it's clear that capitalising the title is normal practice. As for MOS:JOBTITLES generally, and I will add this there at some point, I think they should always be capitalised, whether "Home Secretary", "United States Secretary of State", or "King of France". GibbNotGibbs (talk) 19:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I second Wallnot's points. We have a centralized consensus, recently confirmed, on the matter of style at hand here. I have not seen any compelling reasons to stray from MOS:JOBTITLES. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 03:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

This has been discussed ad nauseam. Government bodies habitually capitalize titles. Academics habitually do not. Wikipedia chooses to go with the latter, presumably because it is supposed to reflect academic sources more than government bulletins. For British English usage in particular, see the Oxford Style Guide, which says that job titles should not be capitalized. Surtsicna (talk) 23:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

You’re entitled to that belief, but unless you obtain consensus for it at the MOS’s talk page, it will remain lowercase Wallnot (talk) 00:04, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I respect your opinion Wallnot, but in this case it doesn't seem sensible. The Home Secretary is always referred to in capital letters on all news sources I have ever seen. If you don't believe me, do a Google news search. I have taken this to MOS, but I will be, respectfully, reverting you. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 20:10, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have cited two manuals of style, including Wikipedia's own, that state job titles should be lower case and I can cite more. My Google search suggests that your examination of usage in news sources is not accurate. Surtsicna (talk) 20:24, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That seems a bit absurd. Are you saying that all news sources are wrong in the way they capitalize the position? Even a cursory search of Google news finds no cases where it is "home secretary". This is a case where convention dictates that it is actually "Home Secretary". - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 20:38, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have rereviewed the news sources, you are correct. I was about to revert myself, apologies. I will not make any further changes to capitalizations. But in the lead, it should be "Home Secretary". Does this mean that the article title is wrong? I do note that the MoS only handles when it is used in sentences for specific people. It says nothing about it in the bold part of the lead section. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 20:41, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * did you bother to read the discussion on this page or the linked page before editing? “Of course, in every article about an office, the article title is headline-style capped, while references to the office in the text of the article, including the lede sentence, are lowercase unless they meet the very particular exceptions in MOS:JOBTITLES.” There’s no need for a particular rule for the lede sentence of the article. Wallnot (talk) 20:45, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I did. In fact, this lack of capitalization is strongly disputed by many parties. I am wondering if it might be worthwhile taking it to the wider community with an RFC, because at the moment it seems to be only folks who are on the MOS pages who dispute it, and even there it is disputed. The MOS, after all, is only a guideline - a very good one, but there are exceptions. I personally believe this is one of them.
 * May I suggest, however, that you do not edit war. You have violated 3RR now against at least several people who believe the change is not correct. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 20:55, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I don’t think you understand 3RR. Wallnot (talk) 20:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If that is the case, and I agree that may be possible, then I hope the adjudication of the 3RR board will be fair. If I was wrong in my understanding, then I duly apologise. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 21:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

 * It should certainly be "Home Secretary"! Johnbod (talk) 21:37, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

As somebody somewhere mentioned (might of been me), WP:JOBTITLES needs an overhaul, big time. It's only earlier this year, that I began seeing its application to leads in articles (such as here) & then to sections & subsections of bio articles. Now, attempts are being made to bring lower-casing to the infoboxes. When/where will it end. GoodDay (talk) 22:45, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, the heading of this article's infobox, might be next. If not the article name itself. GoodDay (talk) 22:51, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I can think of far worse things in life than having Wikipedia article titles and infoboxes conform to established academic practice. Surtsicna (talk) 23:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, are you suggesting "home secretary" conforms "to established academic practice"??? I take it you don't live in the UK. Try to find printed sources using it. Johnbod (talk) 03:54, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is what I am saying. See the UK's premier biographical reference work, the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, for a start. Surtsicna (talk) 10:17, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If I may step in, editors might remember that I was wondering about this policy a couple of weeks ago. However, a firm WP:CONSENSUS that UK political offices shouldn't be capitalised was made here. I still might not agree with that consensus(!), but it is a consensus and I think that those of us who disagree with it should respect that. Decisions are primarily made by consensus on Wikipedia and we should respect that. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 16:22, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Further reversions on capitalisation on 19 October

 * I have not been part of the back and forth on the capitalisation on this (although I have always thought the MOS was backwards on the way it deals with capitalising public offices), but if it is to be "The secretary of state for the Home Department, otherwise known as the home secretary", shouldn't the article title be "Home secretary", rather than "Home Secretary", and why is the IB title "Secretary of State for the Home Department", with capitals. Why is the post deemed to be lower case, but the Home Department needs capitalising? - 2A00:23C7:2B86:9801:ED3C:48F5:4E41:9785 (talk) 16:40, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * No to both questions. The article title is capitalized because "Home Secretary" is not preceded by a modifier, including the definite article "the". In the lede, "home secretary" is lowercase because it is preceded by such a modifier. Same re the infobox. Again, see MOS:JOBTITLES. As to why Home Department is capitalized, the Home Department is the proper name of an entity—JOBTITLES only applies to offices/positions. Wallnot (talk) 16:49, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Of all the ridiculous nonsense I've read on WP, JOBTITLES is possibly the most tortuous and silly of the lot. To have the same terms capitalised and uncapitalised in such close proximity does nothing but add confusion to readers. - 2A00:23C7:2B86:9801:ED3C:48F5:4E41:9785 (talk) 16:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The revision you just made is not a fix. "Secretary of State for the Home Department ... is a senior minister..." is not grammatical English. Please self revert as I am at 3 reverts in past 24 hours. I agree that JOBTITLES is broken but that's what the guideline says and coming up with contorted, nongrammatical constructions as a loophole to capitalize something that you prefer to see capitalized is not a solution. Wallnot (talk) 17:00, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Lede
I don't understand why all the SofS's pages say they are a secretary of state. It already implies it in the title and says so in the status box. Therefore that's why I have changed it AtishT20 (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Suella Braverman portrait as Home Secretary, 2022.jpg

Capitalisation of titles
I've changed the capitalisation of the titles at the top of the article, per Manual_of_Style/Biography. Please note that the mentions at the top of the articles are titles, and should therefore be capitalized. An office holder of the job is, generically, a home secretary, but also, specifically, the Home Secretary. See the difference? — The Anome (talk) 13:15, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

In transition
Right now, for this moment, we are in Bizarro World where Cleverly serves as home secretary under Keir Starmer -- who has only just been appointed by the king. That won't last long, as Starmer's first official act will be to appoint a new cabinet. But it's a fun fact, just for these few moments. — The Anome (talk) 11:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Home Secretary


text:
Beauty and the Beast (1987 TV series)

Beauty and the Beast is an American fantasy drama television series that first aired on CBS from September 25, 1987 to August 4, 1990. Creator Ron Koslow's updated version of the fairy tale has a double focus: the relationship between Vincent (Ron Perlman), a mythic, noble man-beast, and Catherine (Linda Hamilton), a savvy Assistant District Attorney in New York City, and a secret utopian community of social outcasts living in a subterranean sanctuary. Through an empathic bond, Vincent senses Catherine's emotions, and becomes her guardian.

Premise
The series follows the developing relationship between the characters and the division between New York and the hidden world beneath it. In a twist from the original tale, however, this "beast" does not transform into society's idea of beauty after gaining the love of Catherine. Rather, Vincent's inner beauty is allowed to remain the focus of who he is, and it is Catherine's life that transforms from her relationship to Vincent.

In the third season, after the death of the character Catherine, Jo Anderson became the new female lead playing Diana Bennett, a criminal profiler investigating Catherine's murder.

Production
As the title indicates, the premise of the series is inspired by the fairy tale "Beauty and the Beast"; in particular, there is some connection to the Jean Cocteau's 1946 French film, La Belle et la Bête.

George R. R. Martin, who would later write the A Song of Ice and Fire book series which were later adapted into the acclaimed television series Game of Thrones, was a writer and producer on the show.

In 2004 and 2007, Beauty and the Beast was ranked #14 and #17, respectively, on TV Guide's Top Cult Shows Ever.

Season 1
Catherine Chandler (played by Linda Hamilton) is abducted, beaten, slashed and left to die in Central Park because she was inadvertently mistaken for somebody else. She is rescued and cared for by Vincent (played by Ron Perlman) who has taken her to Father (played by Roy Dotrice), head of a hidden community of people dwelling in tunnels below the city of New York. Ten days later, Catherine returns to the surface with the promise of keeping Vincent's secret and the challenge to go on after her terrible attack. After completing her recovery, her life begins a serious transition: she takes self-defense lessons, leaves her comfortable job at her father's law firm and joins the Manhattan District Attorney's office as an assistant district attorney. Her first action involves her asking Carol Stabler about those men who attacked her, where she states that they were part of an illegal escort service run by Martin Belmont. When Catherine is attacked by Martin Belmont's men, she is saved by Vincent, who mauls the men.

During the course of the first season, the production team fashioned a blend of romance and crime drama, which used both Catherine's position as an ADA and her will to help Vincent and his world to place her in moments of physical danger that would bring the idealized romantic figure of Vincent to the surface world as her guardian angel.

Season 2
During its second season, the series shifted its focus slightly to add more character development, as the central characters spent considerable time exploring their relationships with the inhabitants of the Tunnel World, where Catherine had finally been accepted as a friend and "Helper" (someone who assists the Tunnel community with what they need to survive and by keeping their secret). More people from the World Above turned up for emotional support and healing in the secure environment of the World Below.

Near the end of the season, however, in an effort to boost faltering ratings, the action orientation returned as a result of the misleadings of the recurrent villain Paracelsus (played by Tony Jay). In a cliffhanger final episode, Catherine is seen walking down a tunnel into a chamber, where Vincent is suffering from a violent madness.

Season 3
When the series returned for its abbreviated third season late in 1989, Linda Hamilton had announced her decision to leave the series as she was pregnant at the time. It was a decision that, along with the network's desire to attract more male viewers, would have serious repercussions for the show's continued survival. In the resolution to the previous season's cliffhanger, Catherine rescued Vincent from his inner demons but was kidnapped by a man named Gabriel (played by Stephen McHattie), the ruthless head of a huge criminal empire she had been investigating, which was trying to corrupt the D.A.'s office. She was killed, but not before giving birth to Vincent's son, who was held hostage by the evil Gabriel. Catherine's boss and close friend Joe Maxwell (Jay Acovone) hired Diana Bennett (Jo Anderson), a criminal profiler with the police department, to track down Catherine's killer. Quite naturally, her investigation ultimately led her to the now darkly obsessed and grieving Vincent.

Although still popular with its dedicated fans, the darker, more resolutely violent aspects of the reworked concept, coupled with the fatal loss of the all-important central relationship between Catherine and Vincent, led to further declining ratings and, ultimately, cancellation.

Main cast

 * Catherine Chandler (portrayed by Linda Hamilton) – A corporate attorney in her father's law firm. After she was abducted, beaten and her face slashed upon being mistaken for Carol Stabler, Catherine was rescued and tended to by Vincent. After that experience, Catherine changes her life completely and becomes an investigator for the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. In Season Three, Catherine becomes pregnant with Vincent's child and is captured by Gabriel. She is later murdered by Gabriel who has his "tame" doctor overdose her with morphine.
 * Vincent (portrayed by Ron Perlman) – A man of extremely large build with the facial characteristics of a lion; such as fanged teeth, a flattened nose, a feline muzzle and fingers tipped with claw-like nails. He is also much stronger than normal humans and when enraged, he growls and roars like a lion. He wears a hooded cloak to hide his appearance from strangers while walking the city streets at night. His parentage is unknown as he was found as a baby near St Vincent's Hospital and brought to Jacob Wells by Paracelsus' wife, Anna. Vincent has empathic abilities that let him know when Catherine is in danger. Following the death of Catherine, his new-born son was captive in the clutches of Gabriel prompting him to take down Gabriel's operations. He does end up surrendering to Gabriel when he hears that his son is ill. This leads up to a rescue mission by Diana and the rest of the "World Below". Following the death of Gabriel, Vincent saves his son and names him after his foster father, Jacob. Vincent's makeup was devised by veteran Hollywood makeup artist Rick Baker. It was Baker who brought up Perlman based on his previous experiences in prosthetics and fought hard for his casting which ultimately started a long-lasting friendship between the two. Matt McColm was a stunt double for Perlman.
 * Diana Bennett (portrayed by Jo Anderson) – Diana is a criminal profiler with the "210 Division" of the New York City Police Department, which investigates unusual cases beyond the scope of the normal police. She debuted in Season 3; where she was called to investigate Catherine's murder. She later becomes a friend of the "World Below" and plays a part in the final battle against Gabriel, fatally shooting him with Catherine's gun.

"World Above"

 * Joe Maxwell (portrayed by Jay Acovone ) – A Deputy District attorney for the Borough of Manhattan and Catherine's immediate superior in the office. In Season Three, Joe is injured in a car explosion caused by Gabriel's crime syndicate. After the murder of Catherine and the death of District Attorney John Moreno, Joe becomes Acting District Attorney and hires Diana Bennett to find her killer. Joe later meets Jacob Wells when it comes to tracking down Gabriel, but he never meets Vincent.
 * Isaac Stubbs (portrayed by Ron O'Neal in "Once Upon a Time", Delroy Lindo in "Terrible Savior" and "No Way Down") – A street-fighting instructor who teaches Catherine to defend herself after she recovers from her attack.
 * Jenny Aronson (portrayed by Terri Hanauer ) – A friend of Catherine's.
 * Edie (portrayed by Ren Woods ) – Works in the computer division of the DA's office in Season 1.
 * Elliot Burch (portrayed by Edward Albert ) – A self-made millionaire and New York building developer who is in love with Catherine. In Season Three, Elliot becomes familiar with Vincent after an encounter with him. Due to a deal with Gabriel, Elliot is involved in a plot to kill Vincent on his boat. Elliot is presumably killed by the boat explosion which wounded Vincent.
 * Charles Chandler (portrayed by John McMartin) – Catherine's father who is seen in Season 1 and 2 where he runs a law firm that Catherine used to work at. He dies of a stroke in the episode "Orphans". Before Charles died, Catherine was able to have Vincent meet her father.
 * Laura Williams (portrayed by Terrylene Sacchetti) – A deaf girl who lived in "The World Below" and struggles living in "The World Above" while remaining a helper to her tunnel family and befriending Catherine whom she admires.
 * Devin Wells (portrayed by Bruce Abbott) – A former inhabitant of "The World Below" who grew up with Vincent where they had a brother-like relationship.
 * Dr. Peter Alcott (portrayed by Joseph Campanella) – A "Helper" who is a fellow medical student and old friend of Jacob Wells. In "Dead of Winter", Peter is among the "Helpers" that attend Winterfest.
 * John Moreno (portrayed by Bill Marcus) – The District Attorney that Catherine Chandler and Joe Maxwell work for. In Season Three, it is revealed that he is one of Gabriel's minions and betrays Catherine. He is later killed by Vincent in self-defense while trying to kill both Vincent and Elliot Burch.
 * Gabriel (portrayed by Stephen McHattie) – A highly-influential crime boss and the biggest drug trafficker on the East Coast who debuted in Season 3 as a recurring antagonist. He was responsible for Catherine's death and the kidnapping of her new-born son, Jacob. After Gabriel's men captured Diana, Vincent surrendered himself to Gabriel's men. In the final battle, Vincent's son is rescued as Vincent wounds Gabriel. After Gabriel mentions that no court would be able to convict him, Diana avenges Catherine's death by killing him with Catherine's gun.
 * Jonathan Pope (portrayed by John Lehne) – Gabriel's right-hand man; who issues out Gabriel's orders.
 * Doctor (portrayed by Kenneth Kimmins) – An unnamed doctor; who works for Gabriel. He forced the doctor to inject Catherine with a fatal dose of morphine following her giving birth to Vincent's son, Jacob. When Gabriel revealed this to Vincent at the time when he was his prisoner, he offered Vincent vengeance on the doctor (even though the doctor had stated to Vincent that Gabriel had forced him do it). Vincent was unable to take the doctor's life, causing Gabriel to have one of his men shoot the doctor as Gabriel says to Vincent, "I always pay my debts".

"World Below"

 * Jacob Wells/Father (portrayed by Roy Dotrice) – The patriarch of the "World Below" and Vincent's foster father. A physician who left the "World Above" after being unjustly blacklisted, fired from his job and having his license to practice medicine stripped from him, Jacob found sanctuary in an early tunnel community and became its leader. He was also the one who helped Vincent heal Catherine after she was attacked by Martin Belmont's men.
 * Mary (portrayed by Ellen Geer) – The matriarch and midwife of the "World Below". Befitting her position, she is very motherly and generous. Mary is particularly devoted to giving back to the "Helpers".
 * Mouse (portrayed by David Greenlee) – Apparently having no other name, at least none that he remembers, he is a young tunnel dweller who originally hid from the "World Below" community; until Vincent caught him stealing some food and invited him into their family. He is infamous for stealing from the "World Above"; which in his opinion, exists for no other reason than to be stolen from as he once commented "Everyone takes things from Up Top. It's what Up Top is there for". Mouse loves tinkering with machinery and has invented several "gizmos" to help his fellow tunnel dwellers. He has a pet raccoon, named Arthur.
 * Pascal (portrayed by Armin Shimerman) – The shy and gentle "pipe master" who is the supervisor of the tunnels' communication system that involves the inhabitants of "The World Below" speaking through banging on the pipes. He was born in the "World Below" and was trained into understanding morse code by his father.
 * Winslow (portrayed by James Avery) – A very influential member of the underground community and a member of Jacob Wells' council. Winslow is a blacksmith by trade. When on a rescue mission with Vincent to save Catherine from Paracelsus in "To Reign in Hell", Winslow is killed by Paracelsus' minion Erlik; who threw Winslow against the wall.
 * Geoffrey (portrayed by Philip Waller) – A young boy who lives in the "World Below".
 * Jamie (portrayed by Irina Irvine) – A teenage girl who lives in the "World Below". She is particularly protective of Mouse, defending his often erratic behavior to their elders. In "To Reign in Hell", Jamie is shown to be skillful with a crossbow; when she uses it in a fight with Paracelsus' minion Erlik.
 * Narcissa (portrayed by Beah Richards) – An elderly and nearly blind inhabitant of the "World Below", she has resided there at least as far back as Vincent's childhood. Narcissa eventually moved far from the other inhabitants into the furthest tunnels where few others venture and even Vincent's knowledge of these areas does not surpass her own. She pretends to be nothing more than a senile old woman; but she is actually a skilled magician and fortune teller.
 * Rebecca (portrayed Kathryn Spitz) – A female inhabitant of the "World Below" and an expert candlestick maker.
 * William (portrayed by Ritch Brinkley) – A heavyset man and inhabitant of the "World Below"; who serves as their cook. His experiences in the "World Above" left him bitter and suspicious of almost everyone. William's role as cook makes him feel needed and appreciated as the "World Above" never did and he is usually the first to suggest a violent response to any threat to the "World Below".
 * John Pater/Paracelsus (portrayed by Tony Jay) – An inhabitant of the "World Below"; who was featured in Season 1 and 2 as a recurring antagonist. John Pater was a scientist and a former friend of Jacob Wells'; who helped organize the "World Below". But; when he eventually desired power for himself, the community was forced to exile him. Jacob describes him as a "philosopher, scientist, magician" like the real Paracelsus, the name John eventually takes for himself. When Jacob tries to reason with Paracelsus by calling him by his real name, he commented "John is dead". Paracelsus' late wife, Anna was the one; who had discovered the infant Vincent near St. Vincent's Hospital and brought him to Jacob. Paracelsus tried to lead Vincent to siding with him while disguised as Jacob; but was ultimately killed by Vincent in a fit of rage. In his dying breath, Paracelsus quotes "At last, you are my son".

Nielsen ratings

 * 1987–88: #51, 13.1 rating
 * 1988–89: #65, 10.4 rating
 * 1989–90: #68, 9.5 rating

Novelizations

 * Avon Books published three books novelizing various episodes from the series:
 * Beauty and the Beast by Barbara Hambly – October 1989 – ISBN 0-380-75795-8, a novelization and expanding of the pilot episode
 * Masques by Ru Emerson – September 1990 – ISBN 0-380-76194-7, a novelization of the episodes "Arabesque", "Masques" and "The Watcher"
 * Song of Orpheus by Barbara Hambly – November 1990 – ISBN 0-380-75798-2, a novelization of the episodes "Fever", "Song of Orpheus" and "Shades of Grey"
 * Image Pub of New York published another book based on episodes and characters from the series:
 * Beyond Words, Beyond Silence by Nan Dibble – January 1993 – ISBN 9992999292
 * First Comics published two graphic novels based on the series written and illustrated by Wendy Pini:
 * "Portrait of Love" – June 1989 – ISBN 0915419505
 * "Night of Beauty" – April 1990 – ISBN 0915419750
 * In 1993, Innovation Publishing published six issues of a comic book series based on the series.

Home media
CBS DVD (distributed by Paramount) has released all three seasons of Beauty and the Beast on DVD in region 1. They also released Beauty and the Beast: The Complete Series, a 16-disc box set featuring all 56 episodes of the series.

On 11 November 2014, CBS Home Entertainment released a repackaged version of the complete series set which featured a lower price but did not include the bonus disc that was part of the original complete series set.

Fabulous Films has released the entire series on DVD in region 2.

Shock Entertainment has released the entire series on DVD in region 4.

A Blu-ray release in region 2 was announced for March 2011, but was canceled.

Fandom
An active fan community (self-titled "Helpers" or "the tunnel community") arose during the show's run, helping organize a petition drive to assure that there would be a third season. They have published fanzines, fan fiction and collections of filk music inspired by the show, and as of 2013 continue to hold various fan conventions around the world.

Reboot
CBS Television Studios, which owns the rights to the series, developed a reboot for the series. It was executive produced by Ron Koslow, the creator of the original, along with the earlier show's producers, Paul Junger Witt and Tony Thomas. The reboot has been described as a "modern-day romantic love story with a procedural twist". In Canada, it aired on Showcase and the United States, aired on The CW.

The television series starred New Zealand actor Jay Ryan as Vincent (the "beast") and Canadian actress Kristin Kreuk as Catherine (the "beauty"). The pilot was filmed in Toronto, Ontario, Canada in March 2012.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Beauty and the Beast (1987 TV series)


text:
Ceiba, Puerto Rico

Ceiba is both a small town and a municipality in northeast Puerto Rico. It is named after the famous Ceiba tree. Ceiba is located in the north-east coast of the island, bordering the Atlantic Ocean, south of Fajardo, north of Naguabo and southeast of Río Grande. Located about one hour's driving distance from San Juan, Ceiba is spread over 7 barrios and Ceiba Pueblo (the downtown area and administrative center). It is part of the Fajardo Metropolitan Statistical Area.

History
Ceiba was founded on April 7, 1838 by Luis de la Cruz. Ceiba derives its name from an Indian word Seyba, which is the name for a famous tree that grows in the island, Ceiba pentandra, the kapok tree.

Puerto Rico was ceded by Spain in the aftermath of the Spanish–American War under the terms of the Treaty of Paris of 1898 and became a territory of the United States. In 1899, the United States Department of War conducted a census of Puerto Rico and the population numbers of Ceiba were consolidated with the population numbers of Fajardo.

Ceiba, situated near Fajardo, used to be home of an American military Naval base, the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station. Most of the units were relocated and the base was closed in 2004. Ex-governor Sila María Calderón suggested turning the property into a major international airport, to serve as a relief to Luis Muñoz Marín International Airport in San Juan, and to increase the number of international airlines that operate into Puerto Rico. She was met with skepticism about these plans from such groups as environmentalists, economists and others, but in 2008, José Aponte de la Torre Airport was inaugurated at the base's former site.

Locals are commonly known as "Los Come Sopa" (Spanish for 'the soup-eaters'). Even though there is no official reason as to why they are called this, a few stories have been suggested. Among the tales is the belief that since the town did not have a local meat market people had to travel long distances in order to buy some meat and therefore mostly ate soup.

Hurricane Maria on September 20, 2017 triggered numerous landslides in Ceiba. Forty-nine structures in Punta Figuera were destroyed completely. In July 2018, some residents received monies via FEMA to rebuild their homes.

Geography
The Reserva Natural Medio Mundo y Daguao (Nature Reserve Medio Mundo and Daguao) extends along the coastline between Ceiba and Fajardo. 95% of the forest is classified as mangrove. Various species of birds can be seen as well as turtles and manatees. Its rivers includes; Río Daguao, Río Demajagua and Río Fajardo.

The municipality extends northwest into the seas between Fajardo and Culebra and thereby includes the reefs and islets named Arrecifes Hermanos and Arrecifes Barriles. The reef are closest to the coastal barrio of Machos, but barrio boundaries are not defined in that area.

The highest point in the municipality is Pico del Oeste in the Sierra de Luquillo at 3,346 feet (1,020 m) of elevation.

Barrios
Like all municipalities of Puerto Rico, Ceiba is subdivided into barrios. The municipal buildings, central square and large Catholic church are located in a barrio referred to as "el pueblo", near the center of the municipality.
 * 1) Ceiba barrio-pueblo
 * 2) Chupacallos
 * 3) Daguao
 * 4) Guayacán
 * 5) Machos
 * 6) Quebrada Seca
 * 7) Río Abajo
 * 8) Saco

Sectors
Barrios (which are like minor civil divisions) in turn are further subdivided into smaller local populated place areas/units called sectores (sectors in English). The types of sectores may vary, from normally sector to urbanización to reparto to barriada to residencial, among others.

Special Communities
Comunidades Especiales de Puerto Rico (Special Communities of Puerto Rico) are marginalized communities whose citizens are experiencing a certain amount of social exclusion. A map shows these communities occur in nearly every municipality of the commonwealth. Of the 742 places that were on the list in 2014, the following barrios, communities, sectors, or neighborhoods were in Ceiba: Saco, Las Calderonas, Parcelas Aguas Claras, Parcelas Nuevas, Prado Hermoso, and Quebrada Seca.

Tourism
To stimulate local tourism, the Puerto Rico Tourism Company launched the Voy Turistiendo ("I'm Touring") campaign, with a passport book and website. The Ceiba page lists Charco Frío y Las Tinajas, Playa Los Machos, the mangroves at Medio Mundo y Daguao, as places of interest.

Landmarks and places of interest
According to a news article by Primera Hora, there are 60 beaches in Ceiba, including Los Machos Beach. Other places of interest include:
 * Ceiba Historic Mural
 * Ceiba State Forest
 * Ensenada Honda
 * Medio Mundo Beach
 * Roosevelt Roads Base (a former United States Navy installation which is now closed)
 * The cellist Pablo Casals lived in Ceiba.

Festivals and events
Ceiba celebrates its patron saint festival in June. The Fiestas Patronales de San Antonio de Padua is a religious and cultural celebration that generally features parades, games, artisans, amusement rides, regional food, and live entertainment. The festival has featured live performances by well-known artists such as Grupo Manía, and Domingo Quiñones.

Other festivals and events celebrated in Ceiba include:
 * Maratón de los Enamorados - February
 * Festival de Chiringas - March
 * Festival de Marlin or Marlin Festival- May or June
 * Fiesta Nacional de la Raza - October
 * Maratón del Pavo - November

Sports
Former IBF world Jr. Middleweight boxing champion Carlos Santos hails from Ceiba. Ceiba also has an amateur AAA baseball team Los Marlins de Ceiba. Chi-Chi Rodriguez, Pro golfer is from Ceiba.

Economy
Manufacturing (plywood, apparel, hardware products).

Transportation
José Aponte de la Torre Airport offers commercial (mostly domestic) flights on three airlines; it also houses an MD-82 jet donated by American Airlines to local air mechanics students.

There are 29 bridges in Ceiba.

Notable people
People who were born in, residents of, or otherwise closely associated with Ceiba include:
 * Carlos Santos - former IBF Junior Middleweight Champion of the World.
 * Luis Vigoreaux - radio and television show host, announcer, comedian and producer. Luis Vigoreaux was found murdered on January 17, 1983. His wife Lydia Echevarria arranged his murder.
 * Domingo Quiñones - although born in Perth Amboy, New Jersey; Domingo Quiñones moved to Ceiba at the early age of 4 and lived there until the age of 14.
 * Pablo Casals - built his home in Ceiba at the age of 80; the place was known as "El Pesebre".
 * Rogelio Figueroa Garcia - was born in Naguabo, Puerto Rico; however, was raised in Parcelas Aguas Claras (Barrio El Corcho) in Ceiba. He is a Puerto Rican engineer, a politician, and the co-founder of the Puerto Ricans for Puerto Rico (PPR) political party.
 * McJoe Arroyo - IBF Super Flyweight world boxing champion
 * McWilliams Arroyo - professional boxer
 * Jaron Brown - is a wide receiver for the Seattle Seahawks. He was born in Ceiba, PR.
 * Isabel Rosado Morales - was born in Barrio Chupacallo in Ceiba, Puerto Rico. She studied in La Universidad de Puerto Rico, Recinto de Rico Piedras and obtained a bachellor's degree in Education and Social Work. During the 1930s she was a rural teacher, position she held during 14 years. Alongside Blanca Canales, Carmen Rivera de Alvarado and other women, she was a founding member of La Sociedad Insular de Trabajadores Sociales, known today as Colegio de Trabajadores Sociales de Puerto Rico. She was a member of the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and activist for the Puerto Rican Independence Movement. She lived until reaching the age of 107.

Government
All municipalities in Puerto Rico are administered by a mayor, elected every four years. The current mayor of Ceiba is Angelo Cruz Ramos, of the New Progressive Party (PNP). He was elected at the 2012 general elections.

The city belongs to the Puerto Rico Senatorial district VIII, which is represented by two Senators. In 2012, Pedro A. Rodríguez and Luis Daniel Rivera were elected as District Senators.

Symbols
The municipio has an official flag and coat of arms.

Flag
Ceiba's flag derives its design and colors from the municipal coat of arms. This maintains the same symbolism given to the coat of arms. It is made of two vertical lines of the same width, red in the left side and green on the right. The red side depicts a yellow cross.

Coat of arms
The Ceiba coat of arms depicts a shield with a Ceiba tree. In the upper part of the shield is a red horizontal space with a golden cross in the middle and a golden fleur-de-lis on either side. The cross symbolizes the Christian faith as well recognizing Luis de la Cruz as Ceiba's founder. Around the shield are sugar cane stalks. Above the shield there is a golden Spanish fort.

title: Ceiba, Puerto Rico


text:
Talk:Luigi Pirandello

Note
(brushes away cobwebs) Well, Right You Are is doing a run in NYC as I write this (from elsewhere) and there might be some visitors coming.

My impression is that financial need drove him to study hard to get a good job as a professor of literature; that need was aggravated or caused by earthquake, by related ill fortunes of family business, and by another related factor, his wife's madeness; that an earthquake in Sicily in fact did initiate enormous disruption in his life; so that the earthquakes and their psychological victims in Right You Are as well as in As You Desire Me are reflections of the types of events that actually did happen.

On the fascism issue, I would like to know why does the article say that he expressed "enthusiasm" for fascism. Desire for patronage is possible; it's my impression that he had to look internationally for money; and that in any country, he could have faced challenges making his vision of theater real. I would also like to know what evidence he left indicating his true attitude--My impression is that The Mountain Giants and The New Colony make veiled or ambiguous critiques of fascism.

It might be worth noting that after his death it came to light that Pirandello left instructions for cremation, naked in a sheet. This was not only a slap in the face to the Church, which abhors cremation, but also to the fascists, who "did not want a world-famous fascist to slip off naked--i.e., without his black shirt" ( Naked Masks, Eric Bentley ed., Appendix II, Biographical and Historical; p380 in ISBN 0-525-47006-9) I have an idea that Pirandello was in fact given a fancy funeral by Mussolini's government, in contradiction to his own wishes.

Would be nice to mention who he influenced/was influenced by. I speculate there's influence in one direction or another between LP and Kafka, Borges, and Ryunosuke Akutagawa--the parallel seems clear to me between LP's Right You Are and RA's In A Grove (popularly called Rashomon because that's what Kurosawa named the movie). Akutagawa definitely studied western literature. I would like to know what Pirandello knew of eastern literature. (In Pirandello, witnesses differ on who died; in Akutagawa, on how death occurred; Alternatively, perhaps both men were influenced by Robert Browning's The Ring and the Book)

-MunGe

Hello. I'm an italian reader. Please, someone must write something about Pirandello's Novels! I mean, it is possible that, in England, wonderfull works such as "Uno, nessuno centomila" (One, no one, 100.000), "Il fu mattia Pascal", "I vecchi e i giovani", "Quaderni di serafino gubbio operatore" and "Liolà" are completely ignored? To me, they are important at the same level of theatre's works. Sorry for the orrible english: if I could write better, i would have written about this theme myself.
 * No problem, your english was fine. I'm sure that if you wrote a review of those works and if they needed improvement, one of the editors that prowl wikipedia would help shape them up. -Kuzaar 17:37, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

his novels and novellas
Not just his novels, my friend. I am an Italian-American who has been living in Italy for the last five-six years. I first heard about Pirandello from my cousins about 5 years ago after one of them lent me a copy of Uno, Nessuno e Centomilla. I was absolutely STUNNED by this masterpiece of Dostoyevskian intropsective self-examination which, I though, surpassed even Dostyoveski in pshycological and philosophical sophistication about questions of personal identity. And the dark humor on the verge of madness was breathtaking. I later bought a copy of his complete works. Evreything: novels, plays, short stories, that he has ever written. I was saddened by the fact that this unparalled genius was virtually unknown in the US. Anyway, what I want to do is write up a few paragraphs on his novels and the main novellas. Then, I will scan all of his works, in Italian, onto the Wikisource. There shouldn't be any copyright problems. If I eventually get enough time, I will translate some of these works into English personally. I think it is that important!! --Lacatosias 21:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Must leave
I am forced to get off-line, bit will continue tomorrow.--Lacatosias 17:12, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Length
And don't complain about the lenght either. Go take a look at the entry on 800,000 byte entry on Cindy Sheehan. She will probably be completely forgotten in ten years. the Italian wiki has an entry on some modernist writer of the last twney years whi I've never even heard of which is about 6 times as long as this one. Trotsky has an another 800,000 byte entry which is close to a features article!! What the hell does Trotsky mean to me?? Nothing. A Russian revolutionary who wrote turgid and progandistic (=very bad) social philosophy. This coming from a leftist. Does he deserve 800 KB???--Lacatosias 17:05, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Very impressive, but not appropriate in tone for an encyclopedia. 19 October 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.99.40.14 (talk) 01:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps Pirandello deserves such a long article but no one deserves such an ill-written article. It seems to have been written by someone who is only semi-literate (the example cited below is only one). This is meant to be an encyclopedia after all, not just a wall to write your rambling thoughts on. If I was an expert on Pirandello I'd try to cart away some of the rubbish, but I actually came here hoping to find some useful info. The article actually starts well and then degenerates into incoherence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Campolongo (talk • contribs) 08:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Works
I added the titles of his poetry books. I think that a separate section should be created for each category of his works. Regarding "Youngsters and oldsters" sounding archaic or hillbillyshish.. that's exactly how Pirandello wrote the book. :) It's one of his few works talking about rural Sicily.

I don't quite remember it, passed quite some time since the last time I read it, however I think that even the characters call each other "youngsters" and "oldsters" using the local dialect.

Just to explain the reason of my previous edit, Young People and Old People is fine enough. Thanks for your contribution!

 * Hoho!! That is a good point, now that I think of it. Almost all the works were originally in Sicilain dialect (which is pertyy hilbilyish indeed (0.). But you are quite right: this one is also about Sicily and the rural society. Either one is fine with me. The reason I chose "The Young and The Old" is that I was thinking about something along the lines of "The Young and the Restless" where the plural is sort of implied. But it is rather ambiguous in any case. I was planning to write sections for novels, thater, etc., but have been sidetracked by many other things. I hope to get around to it at some point. --Lacatosias 16:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

The Plays?
Should some attention be paid here to his dramas? After all this is what he is best known for. (The novels section is wonderful though.)

That is correct, a section on the plays needs to be added.

'Yes, Six Characters in Search of an Author''  is considered a major work of modern drama! The entire article is terribly askew!'''2Frann89 (talk) 17:20, 7 September 2013 (UTC)Frann89

Ah hah!!
There are no referecnes at all. I never got arounf to adding them. I usually add references after writin articles. I will get arounf to it. The fact is that I have too many and I'm not up to the task right now (--Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 08:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Damn
Original research?? I wish!! LOL!!--Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 09:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Say What?
I wonder if someone can explain what this means: "The commingling, deliberately not amalgamated, of ancient and new, of lucid torments of reason and of desperate desires for immemorial resting places represents the characteristic cipher of this surprising author who certainly does not attenuate the contrasts and contradictions." This article is so dense with this stuff I couldn't get through more than a few sentences. Nickrz (talk) 01:46, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Randomly generated sentences, or possibly plagiarized from a very, very bad master's thesis
WTF is this shit?

 * The commingling, deliberately not amalgamated, of ancient and new, of lucid torments of reason and of desperate desires for immemorial resting places represents the characteristic cipher of this surprising author who certainly does not attenuate the contrasts and contradictions. ... The insecurity of modern man, the multiplication of perspectives, the lack of a unique point of reference are due, in his view, to the failure of positivistic culture to respond to the ultimate needs and questions of man. Science has corrupted the ingenuous margins of religion and fractured the anthropocentric perspective, the source of security for man in the past.
 * Hence the superiority of man over other animals, for Pirandello, following in the tracks of Leopardi in the Operette Morali and the "sublime" Canto Notturno, is overwhelmed by hammering questions without response.
 * In these times dominated by technology, however, the "superfluous" of man can be offered, in a sort of upside-down and ironic ecstasy, to an inanimate and cruel Moloch, as happens to Serafino who reaches the perfect state of indifference, adapting himself completely to the imperious mechanisms of the camera and becoming, at the end of the novel, completely mute, buried in an aseptic "silence of things".

EEng (talk) 03:05, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

'''I agree 100%--but let's not waste energy arguing whether Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias is full of sh**/a fraud, etc...Can't someone contact a decent Pirandello scholar and ask her to step up, and contribute to the article? Unfortunately, I don't know anyone.2Frann89 (talk) 17:32, 7 September 2013 (UTC)'''2Frann89

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What Company?
I think I can see that the incoherence of one of the original authors has been rectified. But their might still be some remaining ghosts here. Namely this sentence in the last section:

"The company took their act throughout the major cities of Europe, and the Pirandellian repertoire became increasingly well known."

This is the first mention of a (touring) company (I assume), but has no explanation as it is worded as if a previous description used to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.149.110.126 (talk) 12:26, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Who or What is Craperallis?
Pirandello reportedly earned his doctorate degree with a dissertation on Craperallis, but I can't find out anything explaining who or what this is.

Is this a joke? Because the very word sounds like one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:4:E90A:3474:D207:3798:B186 (talk) 06:57, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Luigi Pirandello


text:
Wyggeston and Queen Elizabeth I College

Wyggeston and Queen Elizabeth I College (WQE) is a sixth form college, located in Leicester, England. The college is led by Paul Wilson who was appointed the eighth principal in March 2018. The college merged with the nearby Regent College in 2018 to form an institution with approximately 3,750 full-time 16–18-year-old students and 140 teaching staff. More than 40 subjects are offered at A Level.

The college was awarded Learning and Skills Beacon Status in April 2003.

History
The college, which has over 3,750 students, was founded in 1976 following a (comprehensive) re-organisation of secondary education in the city. Many other parts of rural Leicestershire had gone comprehensive in 1968.

The college now occupies a site adjoining Victoria Park and the University of Leicester that was previously occupied by Wyggeston Grammar School for Boys (also known as Wyggeston Boys' School).

The school takes the Wyggeston name from the former school and from Wyggeston Grammar School for Girls, which both closed in the 1970s.

In 1976 the site of the former girls' school became Wyggeston Collegiate Sixth Form College, known as Regent College between 1996 and 2018, when it merged with Wyggeston and Queen Elizabeth I College.

Principals

 * Dr G A Thompson – 1978-1994 (also head of the former grammar school from 1968)
 * Dr Robert Wilkinson – 1994-2002
 * Ian Wilson – 2002–2012
 * Sandra Hamilton-Fox - 2012–2016
 * Paul Wilson – 2018–present

Curriculum
Courses including AS, A2 and GCSEs are provided at the College. The International Baccalaureate (IB) Diploma was introduced in September 2006 with 33 students opting for this alternative. The last cohort of the IB completed the course in 2012, and the programme is no longer offered.

Academic performance
In 2006 the A Level pass rate was 98 per cent with 45 per cent at grades A and B. About 90% of students progress to higher education, mostly in the Midlands region.

Notable former students

 * H.E. Atkins Leading British chess player from 1905 to 1925.
 * Richard Attenborough Actor and film director
 * Bali Rai, novelist
 * Ben Youngs, Rugby Union player for England and Leicester Tigers
 * Shivani Raja, Member of Parliament

title: Wyggeston and Queen Elizabeth I College