text:
User talk:Theornamentalist/Archive 2011

Heads up
Hi,

Proposed deletions

Hesperian 04:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Swiss Family Robinson, In Words of One Syllable
I wanted to talk to you before I deleted the subpages of the work because I wanted to understand your reasoning for putting the work onto one whole page, which in my opinion, makes the work more difficult to work with and for readers makes navigating a little tougher. I also wanted to ask you why you are using break instead of the the usual blank space. It makes the paragraphs sort of run together which makes the reading of the work more difficult. Thank you for your input.--Xxagile (talk) 20:32, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Swiss Family Robinson
Hi, I note you've disambiguated SFR. How do you know that the Kingston translation is 1812? If this is correct than the Kingston that's linked is the wrong one as he was born in 1814. When you've decided how to resolve this let me know so that we can fix Author:Johann David Wyss' page as well. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:41, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Why Category: Film by year ... ?
Wondering why the extra and parallel "by year" "by genre" etc. One would think that they are all still as Category:Works by year or Category:Works by genre and not a separate parallel generation. We have used works quite well to cover all aspects of the original production, and to bind the topic matter rather than by parallel creation. I believe that the community has also worked well in discussing such additional matters prior to creation. To me the extra derivation is unnecessary, and there are tools around if one wants to do separation of subcategories, then parallel hierarchies. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:18, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I am thinking that someone wishes to simply look up films by year, as opposed to all works in a year, this can prove useful. Adding something like cat:Works by year to the cat:Film by year would allow for them to fall underneath, but also remain separated. I'm open to any suggestions, just getting starting to get the gears going on this stuff.. - Theornamentalist (talk) 05:35, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't you think that it is worthy of community discussion prior to implementation? One that is a means of derivation, where else are we going? Publications? Poetry? ... What makes film special enough that it is the deviation? Why not look to use something like Magnus's intersection tool, then build a tool that filters by subsidiary category rather then whole hierarchy.  A proper tool could then be expanded for whatever is the topic matter, genre, that is relevant, and not parallel hierarchies. Propagating bad and arbitrary schemas shouldn't be where we are, especially as recategorising works for misnamed categories is such a masssive PITA. — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all, I apologize for the excessive amount of typos and, well, poor English in last nights response. Regarding why I thought film was special enough: I saw only a few mediums at our disposal, text, sound, and video. I thought that videos were important enough, in the same way that I would like to have the capability to view music by year in category pages. It is definitely worthy of community discussion though, I suppose I got carried away in getting started yesterday. As far as Magnus' tool, I had read about category flattening and intersection, but I had never seen either used to propagate category pages. Show me how to use these tools. - Theornamentalist (talk) 14:35, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Noooooo. Please don't create all those portals either.  One portal for cinema or movies, is probably appropriate, I doubt that film is appropriate, and not all of them.  It was not my intention to give that impression if that is what you took from it.  We try to think through all these portals, align them and have them manageable and workable, I don't see that what you are implementing is going to be either of those. — billinghurst  sDrewth  08:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Update on film cat
Hey Billinghurst,

After further consideration, I see what you mean, and will successively move cats into their standardized form. This is being done with the hope that one day cat intersection can build cat pages for, say, "1912 works" and "Film" in order to produce something like films released in 1912. Also, I've added an idea for text size toggle at the scriptorium; you were the only one to comment, and I think this could prove useful for the variety of readers WS may encounter. Looking forward to your feedback - Theornamentalist (talk) 06:44, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Will comment when I am back home tomorrow and have some time to think about it. I think that we could be working on a standardised template that can be added for plug and play filtering based on a parent category is excellent with that stuff and we might be able to borrow some of his thinking especially with some of the fantastic work that he has been doing with Portal: namespace. We could also look to how some of those filters may also work well to then cross-categorise with Commons if there is a match to the filter. — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:54, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I am not thinking of the portals as really something complex. Almost like a selection reduction after successive refinement; although separate portal pages, I am trying to make it appear as though one stays on the same page by use of the same header template. What do you think of the text size toggle update? I might try reposting it to get more attention. - Theornamentalist (talk) 18:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It all adds complexity and maintenance requirements, and becomes all features and no benefits. We have been trying to simplify unless there are benefits for expansion, as it all seems to be used and abused when overly complex, and someone moves on. It becomes yet another page that someone is required to add a piece of work through the site which just confuses newbies. — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:54, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Currently, maintaining portals are a problem; I see that now at any of the Library of Congress Classification system portals. Many—many remain un-updated and can of course become a poor reflection of what Wikisource has to offer, or of course one users' idea of what is important enough to belong there. However, portals are a highly functional and amazing navigational tool at Wikipedia; the only difference is that there are limited resources here to work on them. I know it creates complexity on some level, but I don't think that that or limited resources should inhibit the creation of it. I plan on writing some portal etiquette or something. I believe one day as Wikisource grows and attracts more users, these things will not seem so arduous.
 * I've since removed all the related categories from before, and migrated all Portal spaces to subpages; this way when Magnus' tools can be used to generate intersecting categories, it will work great. So, at minimum, a film I've added falls under cats:
 * PD tag
 * genre
 * year
 * film
 * If you look through my user subpages (although they're a mess) you'll see that I'm trying to work on a way to verify on screen text and even dialogue using Mdale's recent mwEmbed update for selecting time intervals within a media file. Here's a very bad prototype. - Theornamentalist (talk) 15:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Portal: namespace is where AdamBMorgan is working and we are (well he is) migrating over to that space from an even more chaotic situation at Wikisource: namespace. Hence why I suggested approaching Adam. — billinghurst  sDrewth  16:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi. (I'm afraid that, due to lack of sleep and ongoing computer problems, this message may not be that helpful but I'll try to come back to it later.) Generally, I think it's best to keep everything on just one page until that gets too big, after which sections can be split off as necessary; this allows for more organic growth and limits empty and near-empty portals.  Too many subpages could confuse casual readers and can be a problem maintenance-wise (which is why there are some law portals on which I tried to work but finally decided to leave until the end).
 * Some ideas: You could transclude the subpages into the main page for the time being (see Portal:Medieval texts, which was migrated from two separate indices); this will both keep the subpages and keep everything on one page. Once they get bigger, they can be separated again.  It would also help you and other editors if the subpages were categorised in Category:Portal subpages, which is done automatically by portal subpage.  This will at least keep a list of all the subpages on Wikisource.  (On that subject, the portal should really use portal header, be categorised and indexed, so other users can find it easily; it would be in Subclass ZA.)  It might even help to keep a list for reference on the portal (or talk page) as well. Anything that would help a random user browse the portal and find whatever they're looking for is good.- AdamBMorgan (talk) 14:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Continuing from my talk page: Yes, all portals should fit somewhere in the LoC system (Dewey Decimal System is under copyright) but it's reasonably flexible. Portal:Film should be in subclass ZA but more specific portals, if and when they exist, could fit elsewhere and you can still link between portals regardless of classification.  The reason for the LoC system was organisation and navigation within portal space.
 * One issue is that portals mainly index a subject area. As a library rather than an encyclopedia, on Wikisource they act like a combination card catalog, special collection, display case and bookshelf (a descriptioon I've stolen from a discussion on Scriptorium).  Nevertheless, what they mainly do is index.
 * At the moment, some of the film subpages have only one item each. That isn't useful as an index (or display etc) and it can present a barrier to users, especially newer users unfamiliar with the site, who may have to go through multiple pages to find something rather than have it all presented to them in one place.  Putting it another way, mutiple pages can dilute the content.  Eventually the amount of content will grow and multiple portals would make sense at that time.  However, portals should represent the content as it is rather than anticipate the future too much. That said, there is no actual minimum for content but I try to aim for a quantity of works at least in the low double figures/high single figues.
 * Wikisource portals can and should act as a showcase as well as an index. Some, like Portal:American Civil War and Portal:Poetry, use the Wikipedia style and I stole some of your formatting for the showcase on Portal:Science. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 12:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Header to files
Would you be so kind to stick a header onto these pages +- N   22:53 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/05:55 (4 changes | hist). . (+307) . . [Theornamentalist (4×)] 22:53 (cur | prev). . (+11) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (center) [rollback] (no header) 20:27 (cur | prev). . (-17) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (-block center) (no header) 20:27 (cur | prev). . (+17) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (+bc) (no header) N   	20:26 (cur | prev). . (+296) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text=THE ROYAL PROCESSION {{rule|10em}} The Queen invites Alice to join. {{rule|10em}} Alice unintentionally offends the Queen who calls the ...') (no header) N   20:21 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/03:54 (diff | hist). . (+155) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text=The Duchess's Cheshire Cat appears to Alice and directs her to the Mad Hatter. {{rule|10em}}The Mad Tea-Party." }}') (no header) N    20:09 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/02:30 (diff | hist) . . (+193) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text=Alice enters the White Rabbit's tiny House, but, having suddenly resumed her normal size, she is unable to get out until she remembers th...') (no header)  N    20:07 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/02:21 (diff | hist) . . (+157) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text=Alice, now very small, has gained access to the Garden where she meets a Dog and tries to make him play with her. }}') (no header) +- N    20:04 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/01:27 (2 changes | hist). . (+61) . . [Theornamentalist (2×)] 20:04 (cur | prev). . (-2) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (no header) N   	20:03 (cur | prev). . (+63) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text={{center|EAT ME}}}} }}') (no header) N   20:02 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/00:09 (diff | hist). . (+91) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text={{center|{{larger|ALICE in WONDERLAND}}}} }}') (no header) N   19:55 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/00:04 (diff | hist). . (+154) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text=Alice dreams that she sees the White Rabbit and follows him down the Rabbit-hole, into the Hall of Many Doors. }}') (no header) N   19:50 	Alice in Wonderland (1903).ogv/00:02 (diff | hist). . (+91) . . Theornamentalist (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with '{{User:Theornamentalist/Daydreams2 |Text={{center|{{larger|ALICE}} in WONDERLAND}} }}') (no header) If you are going to transclude these pages, then wrapping the header inside <noinclude> is our suggested solution. We have a practice of all main namespace pages utilise the template, it aids the navigation. Thanks. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Geography! Supernova (talk) 09:44, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

IRC cloak request
Hi. I see that you have requested a cloak. However, since you don't have an IRC account on freenode, we cannot proceed with the cloaking process. You first need to register at freenode (type ), then send the required memo to wmfgc (type  ) and then we can proceed with the cloaking process. Thanks -- Filip ( § ) 12:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Undo or Rollback
Re: Edit if you use rollback instead of undo, the undone edit gets marked as patrolled. Jeepday (talk) 22:45, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Admin?
I just realized you probably don't have rollback, then I looked a little more. You have been around a long time and very busy on the project. Would you consider being nominated for admin?

 * You have been nominated Administrators, Thank you for saying yes. JeepdaySock (talk) 10:57, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Featured texts
Hi, you asked for help on IRC. I have created a modified featured which can be found on User:Sir48/Sandbox1. It displays the featured text as shown in User:Sir48/Sandbox2. The correction is to insert a clear in the template. I am not authorized to do that, but if the result is ok, you will surely find someone who can. Regards --Sir48 (talk) 17:30, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

With regard to the icon thing disscussed in WS:S earlier....
 * The above works, but of course inserts an additional line between the bottom of the firstHeading line and the top of the green navigation header. There is no problem with any of this until you introduce dynamic layouts -- which wraps everything (the text-container?) starting usually with the header in
 but, as we now know, will include any other template before/after the header irregardless as well.

 * We need to find away to exclude this handful of absolute-top-right templates from being wrapped under this text-container even though they "appear" as a child under that div text-container (don't think that is possible?). I believe a workaround for this is to find a way to get the desired template to mimic the "behaviour" of the proofreading-color-progress-bar (a table) or the back link on proper sub-pages (a span) as these find a way to be wrapped in
 which is a parent to the div text-container wrap. — George Orwell III ( talk ) 23:36, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Top icon
After taking a peak at your stylesheet, I can see why the top icon code didn't work. I wasn't clear with the details; instead of the div, you need to copy the following into your stylesheet at User:Theornamentalist/common.css:

You also need to add the following to your javascript at User:Theornamentalist/common.js:

Then, if you look at the example text in User:AdamBMorgan/Sandbox2, you should see the star in the right place. To enable this on all top icons, they need to be converted to divs with  (with no other style css, which is apparently handled by the above code). If it goes live, the existing templates will need to be modified; the simplest method may be to copy the Wikipedia symbols and change the class. The full documentation of this code is at Snippets/Top icons but there isn't a lot more than this. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 16:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I hope you don't mind the presumption, but I added a line to your javascript. The statement wasn't closed properly; it's an annoyingly common problem with computer programming. At least in this case it is only a small piece of code, looking for a single typo in a whole program gets old quickly.  It should work now (maybe, debugging is also an annoying process). I'll start a proposal for adding this to common css/js and see how that goes. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 11:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikisource translations
Hello Theornamentalist, I have been travelling for a few days and have probably missed something. What has happened with this translation ? Has it been decided that it wouldn't be a Wikisource translation any more, or does this adding of a translator's name have another meaning I haven't understood? We might have both translations, a wikisource one and a translator's one, or is there any inconvenience if we do that?--Zyephyrus (talk) 07:19, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Your solution seems to me to be very good. The translated text by a known translator will allow to protect the text, and the wikisource translation will remain open to modern and collective translations separately on another page.

 * And welcome among admins :)  --Zyephyrus (talk) 10:53, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Line-height
[Somewhat copied/pasted from my Talk page] Out of your experimentation with "Burden", it seems you have inadvertently taught me how to set line height... Something I've been trying to figure out how to do, since I am html-challenged!

I have applied the above line-height notation here, and was wondering what you thought... It seems to solve text-wrapping issues associated with drop-initials... But now the height of stanza breaks seem a bit too large... Any thoughts or recommendations? Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

You now have administrator rights
Congratulations!--Birgitte SB  00:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit
http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource%3AAdministrators&action=historysubmit&diff=2793510&oldid=2787925 ??? JeepdaySock (talk) 16:29, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I did that, thought I was logged in. - Theornamentalist (talk) 16:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I would be the cause of that as I gave you the https: url. You may wish to go and block out the contributor component. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Spanish constitution (irc comments concatenated)
[space goo applied and teflon handholds activated]. IMNSHO this becomes two different versions and we should disambiguate at the existing root page of the work. Move the existing work to xxxx (1978) as the original version, and work out its copyright status as a separate process. The new work is a version of the year of its last amendment, so becomes xxxx (YYYY). There are plenty of examples of such. Obviously it would get respective listings at Portal:Spain and Portal:Constitutional documents though at the later, I sometimes wonder whether listing just the latest version is relevant and point to a place that disambiguates the parts. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:24, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

A Forest Hymn
How beautiful is that!? A lovely Easter read this morning, Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:00, 24 April 2011 (UTC):
 * Thank you :) - Theornamentalist (talk) 19:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Catullus 93
Just a heads up that the page you deleted is a complete poem recognized as part of the Catullan corpus. I know it doesn't look like much. :) Prosody (talk) 03:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

SpanishConst
... question.

I wanted to correct Section 67, item 3. but I'm not exactly understanding the naming convention you applied to the opening & closing section tags throughout. Give a mamaluke a clue maybe? :-) — George Orwell III ( talk ) 04:21, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey George, are you referring to the inordinate use of ##chapter1## and ##chapter2##? If so, I know, probably better ways. The first book I saw its use in used these two for every section split (here). I completed the book, and began practicing that to split sections. Later, I did realize that you could call it other things, but found it an unexceptionally marginal bit easier when transcluding since it was always one or the other. - Theornamentalist (talk) 12:00, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Mornin',
 * Did you every stop to look at the resulting transclusions from such an application??? In The Swiss Family Robinson, In Words of One Syllable/Chapter 2, note the end of page 11 to the begining of page 12; a line break is introduced creating a 'split' or sentence fragment. Same thing from the end of page 10 to the start of page 11. — George Orwell III ( talk ) 12:13, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I've seen that, but only figured that was a good as it got. That break is remedied by using different section tag names? - Theornamentalist (talk) 12:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not entirely. It was just throwing me off (open chap 1 close chap 2 ????) from a real fix for the Span Const. when using wikicode for indentation across page breaks. I don't what the entire story is with the Swiss family either.
 * The overall point is to use unique tag names in case somebody wants to create a book or excerpts, etc. one day. Re-using the same tag names throughout a single work nearly always introduces conflicts when some other application of the work you never thought of is dreamed up by somebody in the future.
 * The problem I saw had more to do with the wikicode indentation than the tags. (Part III is fixed already). — George Orwell III ( talk ) 12:44, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Removal of cover image from Index/Main pages of Poems of the Great War
I was wondering if the mere fact that an Index of scans is without a text cover image means that it is "doomed" to be so as well in the Mainspace for the text...? While I understand your reasoning (image "does not appear in scan") behind your removal of the from the Index:Page (while not wholeheartedly agreeing with the removal), I do not see why the image must be removed from the Mainspace page as well (and for the same reason). The image originated from a Gutenberg source (same edition), and although it is not a superb image (since some of the image is unfortunately cut off), it (in my opinion) is better than no image at all. And I also believe (but have not confirmed) that the illustrator of the cover (William Nicholson?) is the same illustrator of The Velveteen Rabbit... Speaking of which, it is my understanding that in order to obtain better rendering of some images from The Velveteen Rabbit (pre-featured status), it was necessary for WS editors to |"borrow" from other image sources (I could be wrong on that specific point, but it would not be inconceivable that such measures would necessarily be taken in similar cases where better images would need to be found)...? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:29, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. I saw that you wikilinked William Nicholson in the note of the text... Is it then the same William Nicholson (who illustrated The Velveteen Rabbit), as I had suspected? I couldn't find proof of it online to be certain... Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey LJB, I don't feel too strongly either way, as it I suppose an essentially harmless addition. But my reasoning which led to the removal is as follows:

 * 1) Not in scan: highest importance. I feel we need to maintain the intergrity of what we have as scans, else people could potentially add what they feel is related or belongs; a case I recall is someone having added images by Gustave Dore to a Little Red Riding Hood story. Anyway, in principle, we have no way to check such a case, which forces us to count on the online editors of other sites being accountable. This image is not so severe as that sounds, I mean, it looks certainly like his illustration and all, but it's just principle.

 * Just making sure, as many of the Coates collections I have added to WS are built from IA scans, etc., but their corresponding Mainspace pages contain images from my own collection, since I was able to scan sharper images. So as long as the edition/credibility/worthiness of the image can be established and documented, I assume the inclusion on the Mainspace page is ok then?... As for the Poems of the Great War cover image, I am not quite so concerned—since you have linked to the image in the note, and the image is somewhat "off"... Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

 * 1) Image was cropped very poorly, did not add that much to work. (Personally, I found the cropping to render the image rather ugly, but that's off the books.)
 * 2) Personal desire to move away from PG text if possible. In order to compensate for the loss, I added a link in the note to the image. Despite all of this, if you feel strongly to re-add, I would not object. Regarding TVR, I feel that is not so much related, as the same images were being supplemented for larger resolution scans. In fact, the "new" ones more closely resemble the scan the the previous ones, which had different coloration altogether and came from some unmatched e-text like PG if I remember correctly. Gladd to see Stops at Various Quills garnering support for FT :) Although, I want to mention that I noticed you had removed the page scan link column in order to allow for rendering of the text as PDF; I can't find where its required where we have them, but I can't think of any other transcluded text which does not have the page links! We can make a book and save it as PDF, and allow for download if you like, and then revert back to format or something. - Theornamentalist (talk) 14:13, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

 * Well—I've been waiting for a solution here at WS where transclusion formatting can at the same time render page scan numbers (links) as well as be PDF-renderable (is "renderable" a word?) to regular WS viewers... If we are now excluding that option via a generally-accepted preference for the page scan column, then why even include the PDF download option here at all? I hope someone can figure out a formatting solution that includes both, for documents print out nicely in PDF format... It can be done! (I hope) :)
 * P.S. Re: Stops project: It was fun to do, and thanks for your help/support! :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

New Category: 1001 Children's books ...
Thanks for stepping into this. It suddenly started appearing as I was heading to bed my time and my head wasn't clear enough to know what to do with it. A category like this would have met a swift demise over at enWP, probably as a speedy. I have concerns over the copyright issue, if what we do is based solely upon the published book - after all it is just one person's ideal list of books. But let's see how it shapes up. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:25, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem :) I think we may be okay; with the list being available at other sites (which we can refer to) and as long as we don't include the commentary than we are just making a list. Hmm, but maybe we should bring this to scriptorium? I'll be out for the night. - Theornamentalist (talk) 21:33, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge Portal:Children's general fiction <-> Portal:Children's literature ?
Having Portal:Children's general fiction and Portal:Children's literature seems like an exercise in duplication and possibly a confusion where it makes it hard to differntiate which works belong where. Would you consider merging to Children's literature? — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, I admit when I first started working on those I did not have any knowledge of our LOC-style system, and thought of "Children's literature" as a hub for various sub genres. I think the entire concept I employed there needs to be re-examined :/ - Theornamentalist (talk) 11:24, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Help
Hi, would you mind taking a look at this discussion, and this page's edit history and talk page. I know this user does good work, but his ownership of Wikisource seems clear. I don't know how to resolve it, talk page and waiting for things to cool down don't work. Green Cardamom (talk) 16:09, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the idea with The Pheonix. Working on that now. May have some questions, will get back. Green Cardamom (talk) 19:08, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Thank you, Theornamentalist. That's a markup learning curve, but looks good, almost like TeX. I'd be interested in learning more about where Wikisource is headed with this approach, if you want, point me to the right place for background. Also, how does the poem incorporate with the dab page for The Dead Man's Chest, if at all, or how to link to it from Wikipedia? Green Cardamom (talk) 21:05, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your help. You put a lot of work into it. While at the beach :) Final thought: would you mind if I posted on the Scriptorium page, to see if anyone had an idea how to link to a poem that's in a book, but not clearly delineated from another poem on the same page? Green Cardamom (talk) 21:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Point of procedure
FYI - Vote on point of procedure. Green Cardamom (talk) 14:57, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikisource:Annotations/types
Your doing bangup good work in creating that list. Any chance persuade to make the list at Annotations/types? The list will be key for long term in structuring a vote and deriving a policy. We're still at discovery and discussion of how to define annotation, and that will need some time. Then voting, people need to be notified and given fair chance to weigh in on voting procedure before it actually begins. Green Cardamom (talk) 02:46, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem; I have a tendency to move quickly which almost always results in most dismissing my attempts. Gotta learn to slow down sometimes :) - Theornamentalist (talk) 04:02, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Rihani text proofreading
One Ameen Rihani text that I would be very interested to enter into the proofreading system is The Path of Vision, which is also on archive.org. How difficult would that be to do? Tfine80 (talk) 13:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll upload this one, then you can refer to it for the one we talked about on your talk page. - Theornamentalist (talk) 13:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's the upload and info at commons commons:File:Path of Vision; pocket essays of East and West.djvu, and here's the index file Index:Path of Vision; pocket essays of East and West.djvu. - Theornamentalist (talk) 13:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Fantastic. Thank you. I will start digging into this. Tfine80 (talk) 13:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have a question. I notice that the OCR produces spaces at the end of lines. Does it matter if these spaces are kept or removed? Tfine80 (talk) 14:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes and no. It reads each line break as a space, so it does not necessarily make a difference in the output. However, some of the wiki markup, like italics, end at each line break. It is neater to condense the text, and most people here adjust the OCR. - Theornamentalist (talk) 15:00, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

That TOC markup looks fantastic by the way. Cheers. Tfine80 (talk) 03:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

stuck on stupid
Hi, seeking further advice & input from you on signature issue.

Well, after cycling through various historic and/or government docs from the recognized eras and reviewing how they appear across the sets and standards of subsequent publications for more than 2 hours stright, I have come to a singular conclusion....

 * Using a template to try and facilitate a duality of displays per namespace being viewed might not be be the best approach to this after all.

It might be worth doing for certain collections that are fairly unchanged in their presentations from one century to the next such, as my Executive Orders and similar agency-head communiques, but for the majority of the most-likely-to-be-added-to-WS type of works (such as the recent NARA-ish stuff), there is rarely an instance where lines, leads, closings, titles, trailers, abbreviations and so on are repetative enough to identify or quantify for standardization via application of a template.

Long story short, lets scrap my whole over-blown attempt to do seals, right-side and left-side signatures all in a single template and focus on your initial idea instead. The basic or default settings should mirror the following guidelines (GPO MoS, 2008) as they seem to be common more often than not ....  16.17. 	Signatures, preceded by an em dash, are sometimes run in with last line of text.

16.18. 	Signatures are set at the right side of the page. They are indented 1 em for a single line; 3 ems and 1 em, successively, for two lines; and 5 ems, 3 ems, and 1 em, successively, for three lines. In measures 30 picas or wider, these indentions are increased by 1 em.

, Chairman.□

Mrs. □□□ (In absentia.)□

,□□□□□ Lieutenant Governor□□□ (For the Governor of Maine).□

16.19. 	The name or names are set in caps and small caps; Mr., Mrs., and all other titles preceding a name, and Esq., Jr., Sr., and 2d following a name, are set in roman caps and lowercase; the title following name is set in italic. Signatures as they appear in copy must be followed in regard to abbreviations.

16.20. 	If name and title make more than half a line, they are set as        two lines. , Board Member and Secretary.□ Any help would be greatly appreciated -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * □ = 1 blank em of spacing
 * We have three separate ways of achieving this from the work you did earlier I see on the Page. My sandbox, Sandbox, and a direct, on Page ifeq; which do I think is most desirable? Ha I look at yours, and it is beyond what I can easily comprehend. Functionally, yours looks like it works good. Capturing the variety of lines, placement and such leaves it with many parameters, while I find it may be simpler to just allow the editor to make it work in the Page space itself. Yours on a bit of a diet gets my vote; an example of what I find excessive would be the use of "suftxt1" for "Presid." I would find it easier simply to insert it myself outside of the template. Keep in mind, I am saying this without being able to perceive it's full capacity, so there is likely ignorance in my opinion. It seems as though something so complex might work against the editor when trying to cover such a variety of works. If you continued with this template you've built, I opt to be a subject and give feedback, but as for the technical aspect, no comment. As far as my opinion on the whole matter, and not just the template, I like the preservation of the signature in the mainspace, but this stems from my view that it can be a unique part of the document and the fingerprint of the person. I err on the side of keeping all signatures present on the document in the mainspace, only because I don't want to decide who or when to exclude. The seal I am less opinionated on; this is a perfect case where we've used the grandchild. How important is this seal as an artifact? But in the least, I like the final product here. For signatures, we have alt text, hover text, author link if possible, and the plain text in the page space; a reader hopefully can find out who it is. So, with the plain text in the Page space and the approximate artifacts (or if need the be, the actual images from the particular document) in the mainspace, I feel en.ws is giving the best representation of the document. - Theornamentalist (talk) 14:37, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

 * The whole convulted reason behind the creation of a prefix and a suffix parameter was only because it insured adherence to the one "rule" no matter which guideline or manual of style I looked to -- they all say the signing person's name should be in small-caps. If I go back to the originals as first published and without the benefits of later editions, re-releases or consolidation - the rule goes to using a small(er) font but all capitals (which really translates to all uppercase for us no matter how we get there).

 * I can get the right-side to "work" but only when I make the image portion an input rather a set of built in parameters....

 * I'd like to get the sig image to behave as a set of parameters but the variations on a theme seem to varied to accomplish this unless I make the whole bit an input. This where the most refinement is needed because I just can't seem to wrap my head around making more than one signature display well at a time without always re-tweaking the defaults.

 * To your point about signatures in the mainspace -- I'm a little tired of playing this game to be frank about it. I have no problem recycling the same signature over and over again because I've heard of autopen and similar rubber stamp methods used throughout U.S. history. I strive to include the signature image in the mainspace whenever I can, even though the corresponding scan in Page: show no such "lineart". Its silly; I know the document was signed at some-point and in some fashion -- that much is a fact in spite of the absence of edvidence-in-hand to show those who may question the practice. -- 15:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well let me know if you move it into Template, I've been doing some NARA stuff and would like to use it. As far as the sigs, I meant to use the image from the doc if one did not exist in a clean form (like .svg) at commons. I feel the same way, I guess this coincides with my preference for using a clean seal too. If someone wants to see the exact document, they would not be looking at our digitized copies. With the signature size, I don't think there is anyway to standardize; only thing I can think of is if images could be defined by mdashes, where the digitized word could approximate how long the name is in em's and then make the signature image size that too. Unfortunately, I believe we cannot do this. Related, I wish we could make all our images (especially illustrations, which some prefer small have a great variety on size depending who edits) based off of emdash width or something. - Theornamentalist (talk) 21:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

 * I guess that one is ok to move to a real template name - any thoughts on what to name it and/or the shortcuts to it? Keep in mind - this is only for right hand side signatures. Ones appearing on the left (and with seals in play?) will need the opposite formula to the right's 5-3-1 em margin spacing. I figure best not to try another layer of coding to accomplish this namespace specific stuff on top of a left or right display.
 * I guess I'll leave the image thing as an input rather than a built in parameter as well? -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:09, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, as you know, I went ahead and created the basic SigR and SigL templates without any feedback. Apply them as you come across the need to but let me know if there are new issues that come to light as a result.

Next problem - that dang seal. Again, I would like to at least give the reader a line-art rendering of these stamps but again it should be limited to the mainspace only. The issue at hand then revolves around actual placement vs. intended placement.

If we looked at an example of an actual seal as affixed to a hand-written original work against the subsequent collection in which that original was recorded and transcribed into for posterity and legal notice, we can see the seal is meant "go with" the closing declaration - typically declaring witness along with place, time, date, etc. - rather than mirror wherever it winds up being physically placed in the original. So in the Alexander Hamilton commission's case, the seal physically appears down and just above Benjamin Lincoln's signature while it probably should be higher up and a part of the same paragraph as the line "Given under my hand at ...." is found when being depicted (at the least in) Page: namespace for plain-text transcription proofreading.

Does that make sense or I am I over-looking/thinking here? -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * First, I'd like to apologize for not being more active recently. Afraid the next couple days won't be much better. I am very happy with the templates you made for signatures; I will be using them from now on. Regarding the seal, I personally wouldn't fight with placement. I mean, I wouldn't change it if you placed it a little higher on the page, next to the final sentence, but I probably wouldn't place it there if initially editing it either. With the way our works spread horizontally, it never really looks like the original. I think you may be overthinking a bit. Are you asking this because you would have the template float up on Pages in general? Or is this specific case? - Theornamentalist (talk) 13:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

urgent request
as a steward, I need an admin ASAP. please contact me privately. Matanya (talk) 15:35, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Please document what happened here. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure; I did not do this initially for potential privacy concerns, but it was in regard to a someone using sock puppets and vandalizing. was one of them. Others were listed, but the accounts do not exist here, so I've only blocked that one. The others, Breakearth, Dramamost, Rocksaid, Daysdays, Wheelwatch and Kittiesonfire, I will log into the Admin board soon - Theornamentalist (talk) 15:49, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * When do you intend to do that? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 23:11, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done; I have been busy this week Cygnis. - Theornamentalist (talk) 23:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Descent of Bolchevism
I saw that you began work on this! I will try to assist! Best, Tfine80 (talk) 03:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The Art of Nijinsky
Thank you for doing all that you are for this text. I deeply appreciate it. What you are doing is way beyond my capabilities. Respectfully, Mattisse (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem; Hope it reaches featured status :) - Theornamentalist (talk) 21:32, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Front matter
Just wondering whether you had considered the second and third pages of Path of Vision; pocket essays of East and West to be called Front matter and transcluded at Path of Vision; pocket essays of East and West/Front matter — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't mind. I've seen this before, and I was wondering where you typically cut it off as front matter; the title page? I think then it is just removal of redundant titles or ads. Personally, I like including the actual cover in the main page if it is artistic or stylistic, especially if there is an a drawing or photo or something. - Theornamentalist (talk) 10:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with you about the presentation of the title pages where they add value to the work. Similarly, I like to have the lead pages (front matter) available to, especially where it is other works, as that helps to build their list of works, just not where it can detract from the quality of the rest of the presentation. There is no right or wrong, just opinion, and with the current presentation, I think that it detracts from the quality of the existing work in that the artistic and introductory components are not really displayed until you page down. Your work, your choice; I just thought that it was worth making the comment. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:57, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I can do it later today, but if you'd like, feel free to isolate the front matter. - Theornamentalist (talk) 11:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

deletion of template:Iwtrans
Hi, I see you've deleted Template:Iwtrans... maybe there's a misunderstanding, only Template:Iwtrans/doc was to be deleted (its content was to moved to Template:Iwpage/doc that serves as documentation for all 4 transclusion templates). Template:Iwtrans is not currently used but can be very useful, for example for bilingual editions. I'm using it in my user pages, so that the content stays in one place and is replicated "on the fly" on all subdomains, and all pages are always up to date. But the possibilities are immense, in the future we could even trasclude pages from Wikipedia or other projects. Spread the word! :-) Candalua (talk) 15:55, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

partitioning a book
From my talk page:

"Hey William,

"I'm looking over the index and I'm wondering, do you have a way you prefer to partition the book? - Theornamentalist (talk) 20:50, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I don't know which book you refer to because I tend to work on about 3 or 4 books, switching from one to another as I get weary of the the same topic when editing. But, no, I have no preference. I didn't know there are options for choosing a preference in partitioning a book. In any case, I am not through editing any books. Thank you for asking though. — William Maury Morris II Talk 00:03, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Theornamentalist, I've seen what you refer to and I certainly do not mind how you work on the Mexico book's Index. I sure cannot do what you have done and neither can our amigo. — William Maury Morris II Talk 01:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Glad to help, and the more time you spend working on tables, I assure you, you will be capable of doing it too :) If you have any questions on what or how, please feel free to ask.
 * I made the front matter transclusion, and the rest can pretty much be set up from there by selecting on the links. I can also set up the illustration index to link to the images when they are transcluded if you like. - Theornamentalist (talk) 03:14, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I'm glad you can help too. I know that I can learn about making tables but I find them boring and I came to wikisource to work on transcribing books—not to learn about making tables. I find javascripts and cascading style sheets more interesting than making tables. But wikisource has a place for everyone to contribute. The book on Old Mexico isn't a book that I requested. It was just sitting there and I like the history of that area. Close to that area I placed detailed 2 volumes on wikisource with lots of accent marks within the text; "Exploration of the Valley of the Amazon" volumes 1 and 2. They were very fascinating for me but work nonetheless. Why place books on wikisource and have nobody to edit the text? Somebody needs to it if wikisource is to collect texts. This book on Old Mexico has a lot of images. Each image has to work properly. The cleaning and so forth is fast for me. The uploading and entering the correct data is slower. Then adding them into the pages properly takes still longer. It is a slow process but being a lover of photography I like to work on images too. So, working on lots of text in every small [box] (page) of a book and the images are very time consuming. When would I take time out to learn about tables in all of what I am now doing? I haven't finished the text and images yet. It's slow going. It is a matter of how much each of us wants to spend our time and I am there working every day and into the nights. Even with this I am still learning proper coding within the text—wiki code vs hyper–text markup language. Whatever you can do and are willing to do please do. I thank you for your help and time in all this. People in the future will also benefit from everyone's area of work on wikisource. I almost live on wikisource at this computer. I know I have a lot to learn and as soon as I learn it there will be developed different ways to do the work. I learned HTML by hand when it first came out. I have been on internet for many years now and have seen the changes that programs can do for websites whereas we had to them all by hand and that is outdated for the most part. The process is what changes but I work mostly with the text and images and unlike much of the processes they will not change aside from placing them into another language.— William Maury Morris II Talk 03:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Porky's Preview
Hi, I see that you deleted the Index file for "Porky's Preview" back in May. Unfortunately the software doesn't delete associated pages and so 21 pages in the Page namespace didn't get deleted along with it and they are sitting in the orphaned pages list (e.g. Page:Porky's Preview.djvu/1). Do we need to keep them? Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:30, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops, good catch. I will delete them. - Theornamentalist (talk) 02:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Theornamentalist/Archive 2011


text: Talk:The Eyes Have It

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:The Eyes Have It


text:
Page:EB1911 - Volume 02.djvu/374

 With the discovery of iron as the ideal metal for cutting implements and weapons, we enter into the millennium before the Christian era; for roughly speaking, the development of the civilization associated with the gradual substitution of iron for bronze began about 1000 Again we look towards the south-east of Europe for the earliest evidence of this great advance; from that quarter it gradually spread over the whole continent, reaching the more northern parts about five hundred years later. In Egypt, the home of a marvellous civilization at a very early time, the conditions were different, and there is reason to suppose that iron was known there long before it was in use on the northern side of the Mediterranean. Our knowledge of the dates at which iron was first known in parts of Asia is still very limited, and further discoveries must be awaited.

The archaeology of Ireland presents features in many respects different from those of the rest of the British Islands in the Stone and Bronze Ages. Such affinities in style as are traceable connect it rather with Scotland than with any part of the south, a fact doubtless due to proximity as well as in part to race connexions. A special feature is the astonishing quantity of gold that was produced in Ireland during the early Bronze Age. The frequent discovery of gold ornaments of this time has enriched to a surprising degree the museum of the Royal Irish Academy in Dublin, while many private and public collections both in Ireland and elsewhere contain a considerable number of similar relics. If these represented the total wealth of gold of the Bronze Age the amount would probably exceed that of any ancient period in any country, except perhaps the republic of Colombia in South America. But the known remains can only be a small proportion of the original wealth. Vast quantities must have been discovered from medieval times onwards, nearly all of which would be melted down, owing to the ignorance of the finders or to the uncertainty of ownership. Further, it may be taken as certain that there still remains in the earth a great mass of the metal which may or may not be discovered at some future time. If it were by any means possible to estimate what these united categories would amount to, the result would scarcely be credited. It is well known that gold has been, and still is, found in Ireland; but it is hard to believe that there were no richer deposits than are now known. It is at any rate certain that the rivers were worked as late as the opening centuries of our era. In the Bronze Age the most characteristic ornaments were penannular objects of all sizes from a small finger ring up to an armlet, generally known as “ring money” from the difficulty of assigning a definite use to the whole series; and the flat, crescent-shaped, diadem-like objects called “lunulae,” which are perhaps even more definitely characteristic of Ireland. Such objects of gold, if ornamented at all, are, like some of the flat axe-heads, engraved with simple geometrical patterns, lozenge-shaped chequers and the like, a type of decoration in itself easily determined as being of the Bronze Age, but bearing at the same time an interesting and very curious analogy to remains of the same period from the Iberian Peninsula, more especially from Portugal. If any overland culture-relations existed between the two countries, it would be only reasonable to expect the occurrence of the objects in question in the intervening districts. But so far nothing of the kind has been discovered. Moreover, had it been an isolated instance of resemblance it might be negligible, but an equally odd similarity is found in the fact that the Irish were in the habit of grinding the faces of their flint arrow-heads, an apparently useless refinement, while the Portuguese of the early Bronze Age did the same. Again, the dolmens of Ireland bear a distinct resemblance to those of Spain and Portugal, while the French dolmens, with few exceptions in the north, have a different character. These curious points are in favour of the tradition that the original inhabitants of Ireland were of Iberian origin, and further, that they did not come overland but by sea, and there are indeed signs of extensive navigation in the Bronze Age of northern Europe. It was perhaps in the middle of our Bronze Age, say about 1000, that this Iberian race was supplanted by the Celts, who took a considerable time to emerge from their native barbarism. It is, at any rate, fairly certain that for some hundreds of years previous to this Celtic invasion, Ireland was an enormously rich country, supplying not only herself, but also Britain and part of the Atlantic seaboard with gold. The fact became eventually an ingrained tradition in the history of the country, subsisting in Irish literature for centuries after the Christian era. Such natural wealth must have produced in these early times a marked effect on the relations and culture of these Iberian Irish, and one might reasonably expect a much higher level of luxury and wealth than is indicated by the remains commonly found. With the opportunities provided by communication with the continent, and the interchange of goods, with all the chances of benefiting by ideas current among other races, it is astonishing that Ireland did not play a more prominent part in Europe, more than a thousand years before the Christian era.

While gold as a metal was known in Europe, even before copper, it is a curious fact that silver was almost unknown, and hardly ever used. One of the most interesting sites for the metal, at about the same period of which we have just been speaking in Ireland, was the Mediterranean coast of Spain. Here in the neighbourhood of Almeria have been found remains of a large and apparently prosperous population ranging from the Stone Age to the end of the Bronze Age, with houses and tombs, besides the fortifications rendered necessary, in the later period, by their possession of the rare and precious metal, silver. Rare it certainly was, for the quantity found was exceedingly small, tiny slender rings for the fingers or the ears, and rivets to hold the axe-blade in its handle; but nothing to compare with the lavish richness of the American mines. The interesting race who occupied these dwellings and finally were laid to rest in the adjoining graves were evidently connected more or less closely with the peoples inhabiting the eastern coasts of the Mediterranean.

Recent discoveries in the central Mediterranean area not only furnish new and trustworthy (though none the less surprising) dates in ancient history, but may also bridge the distance between the Levant and the Pillars of Hercules. The results achieved by Arthur Evans and other distinguished explorers in (q.v.) opened a new chapter in the history of European civilization, and may fitly be compared with the excavation of Troy, Mycenae and Tiryns by Schliemann some thirty years before. The progress of archaeology in the interval can be well tested by a comparison of the discussions to which the two series of discoveries gave rise. The mistaken attributions and unfortunate animosities in connexion with earlier excavations are almost forgotten, while the brilliant discoveries in the island of King Minos have not only themselves been made on scientific principles, but are illumined by the splendid revelation of the civilizations of the Mycenaean and the pre-Mycenaean era.

A great change indeed took place in the methods of classical study during the last decade of the 19th century, a change which affected the entire character of future classical research. It was formerly the common habit among students and professors of archaeology to confine their attention and their interests entirely to classical texts and even to classical sites, rejecting as outside the scope of their studies anything that was not manifestly beautiful as art. Whatever was primitive in its aspect, or wanting in the familiar characteristics that had for centuries been associated with Greek art, was either rejected entirely or at any rate relegated to a second place, as having but a poor claim to be classed with objects of the finer periods. The result was necessarily misleading. The uninstructed majority very naturally regarded the art of Pheidian times as a thing of supernatural growth, which had been bestowed by divine favour upon a chosen spot on the earth, without a human parentage, and almost without leaving any descendants. The evolutionary methods of other branches of science, however, were by degrees brought to bear upon the sacred precincts of pure Greek art. It was found that the crude products of the second millennium, the formless images evolved by the uncultured dwellers in the Mediterranean area more than a

title: Page:EB1911 - Volume 02.djvu/374


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Page:VCH Buckinghamshire 1.djvu/441

Rh discipline, and promoted him to a benefice with cure of souls.

The original endowment of the abbey in- cluded the demesne land at Great Missenden with other parcels of land in the counties of Buckingham, Oxford and Huntingdon, as well as the churches of Great Missenden, Great Kimble, Chalfont St. Peter, Weston Turville and its chapels, in Bucks ; Glatton and Aid- bury, Hunts ; Caversfield and Shiplake, Oxon ; Swynford, Radenhall and Porlaine. The temporalia of the abbey in 1291 amounted to £60 5s. 5d., and included lands in Bucks, Oxon, Herts, and London ; the manor of Peterley was added not long after.

In 1284 the abbot held only one knight's fee in Great Kimble with four acres besides ; in 1302 the same ; in 1316 half the vill of Broughton and Holcutt with one third of Great Kimble ; in 1346 one fee in Great Kimble and a small part of Little Kimble. The Valor Ecdesiasticus gives for this abbey a clear revenue of £261 14s. 6d., including the churches of Great Missenden, Great Kimble, Chalfont St. Peter, Caversfield, Shiplake and Glatton. The Ministers' Accounts amount to £240 11s. 4½d., including the manors of Great Kimble, Hughenden, and Little Mis- senden.

Daniel, first abbot, occurs 1133 and 1145 Peter, occurs about 1163 Adam, occurs 1198 and 1206 William, occurs 1217 Martin, occurs 1219, deposed 1236 Robert, elected 1236, resigned 1240 Roger of Gilsburgh, elected 1240, occurs till 1248 Simon of London, elected 1258, resigned Geoffrey de Welpesle, elected 1262, resigned 1268 William of London, elected 1268, occurs till 1278 Matthew of Tring, died 1306 Richard Marshall, elected 1306, died 1323 Robert of Kimble, elected 1323, resigned William Delamere, elected 1339, died Henry of Buckingham, elected 1340 John of Abingdon, elected 1347, died 1348 William of Bradley, elected 1348, resigned 1356 Ralf Marshall, elected 1356, died 1374 William of Thenford, elected 1374, died John Marsh, elected 1384, died 1398 Richard Meer, elected 1398 Robert Risborough, occurs 1448, deposed Henry Honor or Missenden, elected 1462, occurs till 1503 William Smith, died 1521 William Honor, elected 1521, died 1528 John Fox, elected 1528, occurs 1535 John Otwell, last abbot, surrendered 1538

Dark green, pointed oval seal of the twelfth century attached to a charter of Abbot Mar-tin and the convent of Missenden. The impression is a very fine one, and represents the Blessed Virgin with crown seated on a throne with carved ends, in her lap the Holy Child with cruciform nimbus. In her right

title: Page:VCH Buckinghamshire 1.djvu/441


text:
Page:History of England (Froude) Vol 3.djvu/216

196 could in no wise be profitable to them that were dead, and could not help them.'

It is hard to believe that the King's resolution was fixed, or even that his personal feelings were known to be decided against the marriage of the clergy, when a person evidently high in office could thus openly recommend to him the permission of it, and the reforming preachers at the Court had spoken freely to the same effect before him in their sermons. For the present, however, this matter with the rest waited the determination of the committee of religion, who had remained ten days over their labours, and so far had arrived at no conclusions. In the interval the history of the northern rebellion was laid before the Houses, with an account of the late conspiracy of the Marquis of Exeter and Lord Montague. Bills of attainder were presented against many of those who had suffered, and in the preambles their offences were stated, though with little detail. The omission in all but two instances is not important, for the Act of Parliament could have contained only what was proved upon the trials, and the substance of the accusations is tolerably well known. A more explicit statement might have been desired and expected when a parliamentary attainder was the beginning and end of the process. The Marchioness of Exeter and the


text:
Page:VCH Buckinghamshire 1.djvu/442

Rh hand she holds a sceptre fleur-de-lize, in her left hand a staff which is surmounted by a bird. Her feet are resting on an ornamental footboard. Legend : +SIGILLV SCE MARIE DE ME[SSENDEN]A.

A seal of similar description is attached to a charter of about 124O, the impression is less perfect, and much of the legend wanting. Attached to the same charter is the seal of Abbot Roger de Aylesbury, dark green, pointed oval, representing the abbot standing on a carved corbel, in his right hand a pastoral staff, in his left hand a book. In the field on the left an estoile, on the right a crescent. Legend: +SIGILL' ROGERI. A. . . DE. MESSENDENE.

A mottled green seal, the impression of which is very imperfect, but similar to the first seal, and the legend wanting, is attached by a woven cord of red silk strands to a deed of 1242 exhibited in the British Museum. To the same document is also attached by another cord of red silk strands the seal of Abbot Roger as described above.

A red pointed oval seal of the fifteenth cen- tury, attached to the Acknowledgment of Supremacy, 1534, represents the Blessed Virgin with crown seated in a canopied niche, in her right hand the Holy Child with nimbus, in her left hand a sceptre. In the field on each side, three trees, one above, two below. In base, under an arch, an abbot and three monks in adoration. Legend : s' COE. ABBIS. za. COUET' MONAST'. BEATE. MARIE. DE. MISSYNDEN.

An oval seal of Abbot William, taken from a cast in the British Museum, repre- sents the Blessed Virgin standing in a cano- pied niche with tabernacle work at the sides, the Child on her right arm, in her left hand a sceptre fleur-de-lizi or flowering branch. The legend is indistinct : ... DE ... ENDEN.

10. THE ABBEY OF MEDMENHAM

The little abbey of Medmenham was founded in 1204 upon lands granted to the abbey of Woburn, Bedfordshire, by Isabel de Bolebec, Countess of Oxford. Leave to build a monastery in this place was granted in 1202, but there seems to have been some mismanagement in connection with its first foundation. In 1204 the first colony of monks was sent there from the parent abbey, but it was recalled in the same year. The Abbot of Woburn was deposed on account of this failure. Other monks were sent appar- ently soon after, for the house was built and inhabited in 1213, and from this time it re- mained an independent abbey.

It has no history whatever, so far as can at present be discovered. Even the names of the abbots are difficult to find out. There are a few suits concerned with small parcels of land recorded in the Feet of Fines during the thirteenth century ; and the Close Rolls of the fourteenth contain one or two notices of debts incurred by the abbot and convent of Medmenham. The abbots are said to have held the office of Epistolar to the Order of the Garter.

In 1524 there was some thought of granting the revenues of this house to Wolsey for his college at Oxford, but the plan was not carried out. At the dissolution, which was before 8 July, 1536, it was made part of the endowment of the new abbey of Bisham. There was at this time only one monk left be- sides the abbot ; the latter received a pen- sion of 10 marks. So far as can be discovered, the property of the abbey consisted of little more than the vill of Medmenham and the parish church. There is no account of its value in the Tax- atio. The Valor Ecclesiasticus gives a total of £20 6s. 2d. {{c|{{sc|Abbots of Medmenam}} Roger, occurs 1256 and 1259 Peter, elected 1295, occurs 1303 John of Medmenham, occurs 1308 {{smallrefs}} {{c|376}}

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 Casey at the Bat pg 29.jpg

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Willard P. Leutze
Willard Parker Leutze

Name: 	Willard Leutze Birth: 	2 Mar 1927 Death: 	13 Aug 1996 Military: 	8 Aug 1945

There is also evidence of a Willard P. Leutze mustering in 1917 US military

Name: 	Willard P. Leutze SSN: 	131-18-8780 Last Residence: 	70503 Lafayette, Lafayette, Louisiana, United States of America Born: 	2 Mar 1927 Died: 	13 Aug 1996 State (Year) SSN issued: 	New York (Before 1951)
 * SSDI, only one Willard Leutze listed


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Rh Geoffrey, occurs 1321 Stephen of Thame, elected 1373 Henry, occurs 1416 Richard, occurs 1421 John Talbot, occurs 1535 Richard Brangwen, last abbot, occurs 1536

Dugdale says, 'according to Willis the seal of the abbey was the effigies of the Blessed Virgin crowned, sitting on a splendid throne, in her bosom the venerable Infant.' He adds the only impression remaining is that of [Abbot] John 1308, which is a neat oval seal with this inscription on the edge : S' FRIS JOHlS. MENDHAM.'

The Abbey of Nutley, or Crendon Park, was founded early in the twelfth century by Walter Giffard and Ermengarde his wife, for Austin Canons following the customs of Arrou- aise. It was dedicated to the honour of St. Mary and St. John Baptist. The exact date of foundation cannot be given, but it seems probable that it was about the same time as that of Missenden, and it must certainly have been before 1164, to fall within the lifetime of Walter Giffard. It was the richest mon- astery in Buckinghamshire : its income at the dissolution was very little short of £450, and it had even then the patronage of eleven churches.

Yet it has very little history. There are one or two suits of importance during the thirteenth century, and these constitute the whole of our information for this period. There was a long suit in connection with a moiety of the manor of Lower Winchendon, for which it seems that the abbot advanced an unwarranted claim. It began in 1207, when Agnes Wake had the land secured to her as a marriage portion, and the canons were ordered not to molest her in any way. It was re- opened in 1221, when Agnes showed the fore- going charter, while the abbot pleaded the custom of an earlier date ; and it was finally settled in 1238, when the abbot quitclaimed it to Hugh Wake, but received it back again at a yearly rent of sixteen marks. There was another suit in 1214, when the canons se- cured the church of Bottesham in Cam- bridgeshire against Richard de Clare, by showing the charter of Walter Giffard.

Abbots of this house during the fourteenth century were several times commissioned by the pope to inquire into the circumstances of appeals and petitions ; and on this abbey as well as Missenden, Edward II. and Ed- ward III. used occasionally to quarter their old servants. At the beginning of the same century there must have been some dispute concerning jurisdiction between Bishop Dai- derby and the canons of Nutley : for the bishop complained in a letter to the Dean of Waddesdon that the infirmarian and three others had dared to try and hinder him from administering the sacrament of confirmation in the conventual church ; they had attacked his servants, beaten and trampled upon them, and committed other enormities ; and an- other canon in his malice defended these evil- doers. The entry is unfinished, so the con- clusion of the affair is unknown : but it seems that this house, though not exempt, was seldom visited by the bishops of Lincoln.

Richard of Crendon, who was abbot in 1333, was mixed up in a very discreditable affair in that year : the Prior of Walron in Norfolk complained to the king that the Abbot of Nutley and another canon with cer- tain knights carried away two of his horses and other goods of his at Kelling and Sherring- ham. An inquiry was made in 1345 as to the rights by which the canons of Nutley held so many churches in proprios usus, as they were found to be destitute of vicars ; and it was noticed more than a century later that the churches belonging to this house were ruinous and badly served. In 1374 it was formally

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1539.] Countess of Salisbury were not tried, but they were attainted in common, with the rest; and it can be gathered only from the language of the Act that circumstances were known to the Parliament of which the traces are lost. Lady Exeter was afterwards pardoned. Lady Salisbury's offences, whatever they were, seem to have been known to the world, even before Lord Southampton's visit of inspection to Warblington. The magistrates of Stockton in Sussex sent up an account of examinations taken on the 13th of September, 1538, in which a woman is charged with having said, 'If so be that my Lady of Salisbury had been a young woman as she was an old woman, the King's Grace and his council had burnt her.'—MS. State Paper Office, second series, vol. xxxix. The Act of Attainder has not been printed (31 Henry VIII. cap. 15: Rolls House MS.); so much of it, therefore, as relates to these ladies is here inserted:—'And where also Gertrude Courtenay, wife of the Lord Marquis of Exeter, hath traitorously, falsely, and maliciously confederated herself to and with the abominable traitor Nicholas Carew, knowing him to be a traitor and a common enemy to his Highness and the realm of England; and hath not only aided and abetted the said Nicholas Carew in his abominable treasons, but also hath herself committed and perpetrated divers and sundry detestable and abominable treasons to the fearful peril of his Highness's royal person, and the loss and desolation of this realm of England, if God of His goodness had not in due time brought the same treason to knowledge:'And where also Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury, and Hugh Vaughan, late of Bekener, in the county of Monmouth, yeoman, by instigation of the devil, putting apart the dread of Almighty God, their duty of allegiance, and the excellent benefits received of his Highness, have not only traitorously confederated themselves with the false and abominable traitors Henry Pole, Lord Montague, and Reginald Pole, sons to the said countess, knowing them to be false traitors, but also have maliciously aided, abetted, maintained, and comforted them in their said false and abominable treason, to the most fearful peril of his Highness, the commonwealth of this realm, &c., the said marchioness and the said countess be declared attainted, and shall suffer the pains and penalties of high treason.' I find no account of Vaughan, or of the countess's connection with him. He was probably one of the persons employed to carry letters to and from the cardinal.


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 thousand years before the time of Pheidias, were in truth the prototypes of the creations of himself and his contemporaries. This step being taken, the rest became easy. The most commonplace and ordinary relics were collected with as much avidity as they had formerly been rejected, in the belief that their simple forms would aid in the elucidation of their more complex and highly elaborated descendants. This minute attention, moreover, was not only given to the works of man, but even the remains of humanity received the attention they merited. It has been rightly thought, during recent years, that the question of race was a factor that deserved treatment in dealing with works of art of early times; and that natural evolution due to man’s tendency to change with time, might not be sufficient to account for the differences of type observed in human remains from the same country. For this reason, not only the objects associated with the burial have been preserved, but also the skeleton itself. This has been examined, measurements taken and recorded for comparison, and inferences made, sometimes of a surprising character. For example, if a cemetery be found with a preponderance of tall, long-headed skeletons in a district where the prevailing type of skeleton is short and brachycephalic (short-headed), the observer may reasonably expect a different kind of burial-furniture, and suspect an intruding race. In this particular respect, archaeology owes a signal debt to physical anthropology and to anthropological methods in general. The combination of the two is far more likely to lead to a reasonable and satisfactory conclusion than would be possible if the one branch of science had been pursued alone.

When once the existence of abundant remains of prehistoric man had been admitted, and their study had received recognition as a branch of science, the evidence supplied by the relics themselves and by their relation to extinct or existing animals would have sufficed to give a considerable insight into the conditions of primitive life. But, fortunately, corroborative evidence of the most useful kind was at hand, and has been of the greatest service in solving what might otherwise have been insoluble problems. Though the progress of civilization, and more especially the ever increasing rapidity of communication are rapidly changing the habits of life among the primitive peoples in various parts of the world, yet till past the middle of the 19th century, a certain number of tribes, if not races, were still in the Stone Age. Even at the present day stone-using tribes still exist, although by chance metal may be known to them. The importance of the study of their conditions of life and their technical processes, and of the collecting of their implements for the express purpose of illustrating prehistoric man, was recognized by Henry Christy (1810–1865), who had made extensive investigations and collected relics in conjunction with Edouard Lartet in the now famous caverns of the Dordogne, at a time when such explorations were somewhat of a novelty; and concurrently he formed a large collection of the productions of existing savage peoples, both collections after his death passing to the British Museum, his intention being that the one should elucidate the ether. (It is only fair to his memory, however, to state here that, by his express wish, the most important of the relics that he had obtained from the Dordogne caves were returned to France where they now are. Such instances of international courtesy are rare enough to deserve mention.) The value and interest of such a series can scarcely be over-rated. Almost till the 20th century, the Indians of North America, the Australian and Tasmanian natives, as well as those of New Zealand and the many archipelagoes of the Pacific, were, if not ignorant of the use of metals, at least habitually using stone where civilized man would use metal. The Maori made his war club of jade and the pounders for preparing his food of stone. The Australian had his stone axe-blade; and low as he stands in the culture scale, his spear-heads are chipped with an exquisite precision. The Papuan of inland New Guinea is still making his weapons of stone and wood; while until quite recently the North American Indian was making his delicate stone arrow-points, and the Solomon islander his beautiful polished stone axe-blades. The knowledge gained by the study of a large series of such objects enables us to fill up very many gaps in the story of early man as told by his own remains. In fact, in this respect, the value of the comparison is much greater than could reasonably be expected; for, whatever may be the reason, nothing is more marked than the extraordinary similarity of stone implements at all times and over the whole world. An arrow-point made by a Patagonian Indian, one from a Japanese shell mound, and a third of the Stone Age from Ireland, are found to be practically identical. Whether it is that the same material and the same necessity naturally produce a like result, or whether there has existed throughout a continuity of type, is a question that will never be satisfactorily answered. The results, however, are of eminently practical value. The arrow-heads of neolithic man, which are found by hundreds all over Europe, may be seen fixed in their shafts in the hands of an American Indian; rude pieces of quartz, which unmounted would escape notice as implements, are seen to make excellent tools when mounted in a handle by the Australian black, while flakes of slate find a use when mounted as skinning-knives by the Eskimo.

Now that the narrower conception of archaeology as a minor branch of classical studies has been given up, the new science has gradually won its way to universal recognition; and anthropology, a still wider subject but in many points closely allied to the scientific study of ancient remains, has still more recently found favour at all the leading universities, and practical measures have been taken to establish the study on a firm and scientific basis. Apart from this official encouragement, much has been done towards the systematization and teaching of archaeology by practical excavators, whose pupils have attained considerable numbers and celebrity. Something has been done, too, in the national and provincial museums, to present the relics of past ages in an intelligible manner, so that the collections no longer consist of curiosities but of documents rich in instruction and interest even to the general visitor. The progress of photography, as well as the improvement and cheapening of methods of illustration, have also assisted enormously in the advance of archaeology; and similarly, the antiquities exhibited in museums and private collections to illustrate and amplify written records, have in the last generation received much attention on their own account, and have reacted in various ways on the teaching of ancient history. In some countries a further step in general education has been taken, and the lamentable waste of archaeological material arrested to some extent by the distribution of pictures and diagrams among schools and institutions, to call attention to the more ordinary local types, and to encourage those who are likely to discover them in the soil to save them from destruction and render them available for scientific study. A certain familiarity on the part of the young with the mere appearance of antiquities that come to light continually and are almost as often discarded or destroyed, would probably result in valuable additions being made to the available data.

.—The most useful general works are the following:—Salomon Reinach, Epoque des alluvions et des cavernes (Musée de St Germain); Hoernes, Der diluviale Mensch in Europa; Sir John Evans, Stone Implements of Great Britain, and Bronze Implements of Great Britain; Boyd Dawkins, Cave-hunting, and Early Man in Britain; Greenwell, British Barrows; W. G. Smith, Man the Primeval Savage; James Geikie, Prehistoric Europe; Mortillet, Le Préhistorique; Robert Munro, Lake Dwellings of Europe; Ridgeway, Early Age of Greece; Jos. Anderson, Scotland in Pagan Times; the works of Oscar Montelius and Sophus Müller; L’Anthropologie, Matériaux pour l’histoire primitive de l’homme; Christy and Lartet, Reliquiae Aquitanicae; A. Michaelis, A Century of Archaeological Discovery (Eng. trans., 1908). See also, and authorities mentioned there; ; ; , &c.; ; and the articles on different countries and sites.

ARCHAEOPTERYX. The name of Archaeopteryx lithographica was based by Hermann von Meyer upon a feather (Gr. , wing) found in 1861 in the lithographic slate quarries of Solenhofen in Bavaria, the geological horizon being that of the Kimmeridge clay of the Upper Oolite or Jurassic system. In the same year and at the same place was discovered the specimen (figs. 1 and 3)

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Rh stated that the abbey had suffered severely from the Great Pestilence, and was not able to maintain its wonted hospitality. In 1383 the conventual church was attacked by a band of armed men, who were excommuni- cated in consequence ; nothing more is known of the affair or its causes.

In 1461 the priory of Chetwode and its lands were granted to the canons of Nutley, on condition that they should fulfil all the obligations attached to the suppressed foun- dation. Just before the dissolution the abbey came into the king's hand, on account of the attainder of the Duke of Buckingham, who had been its patron. The last abbot, Richard Ridge, signed the Acknowledgment of Royal Supremacy in 1535, and surrendered his house on 9 December, 1538. The Deed of Surrender is signed by the prior and thir- teen other canons besides the abbot ; it takes the form of an enfeoffment of the house to Dr. London for the king's use. London had been busy in the neighbourhood just before, taking the surrender of Eynsham, and defac- ing various shrines. The pension list for Nutley Abbey, as given by Browne Willis, is to the abbot £100, to the prior £6 13s. 4d., to the sub-prior £6, to Thomas Webb £6, and to twelve others £5 6s. 8d. As the house possessed many churches, it is possible that some of the pensions were commuted for bene- fices. Valentine Bownde, the prior, became chaplain of Long Crendon, and another canon was cantarist of the fraternity of Buckingham until its suppression. The last- mentioned canon was the only one who sur- vived till 1552, when he claimed two pen- sions : £5 6s. 8d. from Nutley, and £4 for the chantry.

The Arrouasian canons had a great reputa- tion for strictness of life at the first foundation of their order ; but there is very little to show us how far this house was faithful to its ori- ginal ideal. The Abbot of Nutley was one of those deprived by Bishop GrosstCte in 1236, a fact which suggests unsatisfactory adminis- tration at that time, if nothing worse. The elections of 1268 and 1271 were both annulled by Bishop Gravesend, not because of the un- fitness of the persons elected, but because of some informality in the procedure. The entry in Bishop Dalderby's register already alluded to does not give us a favourable im- pression of the house in 1300 ; but not enough is known of the circumstances to enable us to judge the matter fairly. A commission was issued by the same bishop a few years later for the visitation and correction of the abbey of Nutley, but no report is preserved. In 1323 an order was given for the readmission of an apostate monk after absolution by the bishop. In 1350 there was certainly no unfriendly feeling between the abbot and his diocesan, for the former was commissioned to examine the election of a prioress of Little Marlow in that year. The first formal report of visita- tion is dated 1379. It does not point to any special laxity, but only to some defects of ad- ministration. It was enjoined that two bursars should be elected annually by the abbot and the ' greater and wiser part ' of the convent, who should receive all moneys and render an account of the same. The officers of the monastery were to be appointed and removed by the abbot with the concurrence of the ' greater and wiser part ' of the breth- ren ; but all should render due obedience to the abbot. No pensions or doles should be given without consent of the abbot and the ' greater and wiser part.' The kinsmen of the abbot or the canons were not to be charge- able to the monastery without consent of the abbot and the ' greater and wiser part.'

The exact value of these injunctions cannot be estimated without more knowledge of the contemporary history of the house. They read like a temporary expedient to check the power of an abbot who had not shown suffi- cient consideration for his brethren, nor con- sulted them duly ; for the stress laid upon the consent of the majority is very unusual. In 1391 an indult was granted by the pope

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198 Lady Salisbury, after her sentence, was removed from Cowdray to the Tower. A remarkable scene took place in the House of Lords on the last reading of the Act of Attainder. As soon as it was passed, Cromwell rose in his place, and displayed, in profound silence, a tunic of white silk, which had been discovered by Lord Southampton concealed amidst the countess's linen. On the front were embroidered the royal arms of England. Behind was the badge of the five wounds, which had been worn by the northern insurgents. Cromwell knew what he was doing in the exhibition. It was shown, and it was doubtless understood, as conclusive evidence of the disposition of the daughter of the Duke of Clarence and the mother of Reginald Pole. The bill was disposed of rapidly. It was introduced on the 10th of May; some faint voices were raised in opposition, but to no purpose; it was concluded on the 12th. The chief interest of both Houses was fastened on the great question before the committee.

The time passed on. No report was presented, and the peers grew impatient. On the 16th the Duke of Norfolk stated that, so far as he could perceive, no progress was being made in the proper business of the session, and, judging from a conversation which had passed when the committee of opinion was


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1539.] nominated, little progress was likely to be made in a body so composed. He therefore moved that the whole Parliament be invited to discuss freely the six ensuing articles. 1. In the eucharist after consecration does there, or does there not, remain any substance of bread and wine? 2. Is communion in both kinds necessary or permitted to the laity? 3. Are vows of chastity deliberately made of perpetual obligation? 4. Is there or is there not any efficacy in private masses to benefit the souls of the dead? 5. Are priests permitted to have wives? 6. Shall auricular confession be retained or be not retained in the Church? The Duke's own opinion on each and every of these points was well known; but the question was not only of the particular opinion of this or that person, but whether difference of opinion was any longer to be permitted; whether after discussion such positive conclusions could be obtained as might be enforced by a penal statute on all English subjects.

On the first no disagreement was anticipated. No member of either House, it is likely, and no member of Convocation—not even Latimer—had as yet consciously denied the real presence; but the five remaining articles on which an issue was challenged were the special points on which the Lutheran party were most anxiously interested—the points on which, in the preceding summer, negotiations with the Germans were broken off, and on which Cranmer was now most desirous to claim a liberty for the Church, as the basis of an evangelical league in Christendom. Norfolk, therefore, had opened the battle,


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Rh visited this house as well as most of its neigh- bours during that year. Beyond this and the few facts mentioned above, it has no history at all. In 1460 it had become too poor even to maintain canons enough to serve the appro- priate churches, and was annexed with the king's consent to Nutley Abbey.

No visitations of this priory are recorded at Lincoln.

Its original endowment was merely the demesne land at Chetwode, the king's gift above mentioned, and the churches of Chet- wode and Barton Hartshorn In 1284 the prior held 8½ virgates at Chetwode with the site of the priory, of Robert de Chetwode. There is no mention of the house in the Taxatio. Thomas of Hanworth, first prior, elected 1245, resigned 1261 John of Woodstock, elected 1261, resigned 1270 William of Dadington, elected 1270 William of Brickiesworth, resigned 1304 Roger of Lynham, elected 1304, resigned John of Warmington, elected 1317, died Robert of Brackley, elected 1328, died William of Halton, elected 1337, died Henry of Wykeham, elected 1349, died John of Westbury, elected 1361, died 1386 Richard Langton, elected 1386 Thomas Rede, elected 1405 Richard Borton, died 1445 John Humberstone, elected 1445, died

13. THE PRIORY OF RAVENSTONE

The priory of St. Mary, Ravenstone, was founded about the year 1255 by Peter Chace- porc, keeper of the royal wardrobe, on lands which formed a part of the barony of Wahull. After the death of Peter the patronage of the house reverted to the Crown, and the canons were bound to sing a certain number of masses for the soul of the king as founder. The number of canons provided for in the original foundation is unknown : at the dis- solution of the house there were only two left, though an income of about £70 would have easily supported more. It was probably on account of this diminished number that the priory was granted to Cardinal Wolsey for his college at Oxford, and dissolved 17 February, 1524. The canons received 2OS. each as ' wages.' No visitations of the house are recorded at Lincoln : nor is it easy to recover any details of its history, exterior or interior.

The original endowment included half a knight's fee at Ravenstone, with the parish church, and a demesne of 386 acres besides. There is no evidence that it was ever much increased. The Taxatio of Pope Nicholas assigns to its temporalia a value of £11 10s. ; the church was worth £10 a year. In 1316 the prior held one third of the village of Ravenstone, and the same amount in 1346. At the dissolution the total value of the house is given as £66 13s. 4d., or, at another reckon- ing, £72. The moveable goods were worth £10, the bells £33 6s. 8d.

Adam of Wymondley (probably first prior), resigned 1275 Ralf of Ravenstone, elected 1275 John, died 1309 Roger de Clare, elected 1309, died 1324 William Aubel, elected 1324, died 1328 Robert Maunsel, elected 1328 John Man of Raundes, elected 1398

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Rh of London a valuable account of his observations. The large urn, into which the horse had stepped, was found to be an unusually fine specimen measuring 17 inches in height, and having a broad and pronounced band, or rim, round the upper part. This urn, it was found, had unfortunately been much damaged by the horse; the bottom was broken through, and much of the contents, consisting chiefly of calcined human bones, had been dispersed.

The operation of excavating the larger urn led to the discovery of a smaller urn, turned bottom upwards, resting on the shoulder of the larger specimen. The smaller urn contained powder of whitish colour, among which the following substances were identified: (1) chalk, (2) flints, (3) wood charcoal, (4) spiculæ of bones, (5) white flocculent matter, which dissolved completely in diluted hydrochloric acid, and (6) carbonate of lime.

In the larger urn, which it should be mentioned was in an inverted position, was found a charming example of those little earthen vessels to which the somewhat hypothetical name of incense-cup has been given. There is a certain character about the ornamentation of this example which gives it a special archæological interest, although it does not, perhaps, contribute anything towards the solution of the purpose which so-called 'incense-cups' served.

The smaller of the two urns measured 7¼ inches in height, and was regarded by the finder as a miniature cinerary urn rather than a food vessel or drinking cup. Like the larger urn it has a broad, well pronounced, and flat rim.

The use to which the so-called incense-cups were put is a question which still awaits a satisfactory explanation. The popular name given them is not quite satisfactory, because the openings usually found in the sides would not be suitable for censing purposes; it is difficult to understand how such vessels could hold incense. Another, possibly more plausible, explanation is that they were vessels used to convey some inflammable substance for the kindling of the funereal fire. The interesting point about the Wycombe Marsh 'incense-cup' is that the holes do not entirely pierce through the sides, leading to the conclusion that they represent a tradition which had become meaningless.

Some other rather interesting pieces of pottery of the bronze age found in Buckinghamshire, and now in the British Museum collection, were found during some explorations of circular hut floors at Hitcham. These consisted of three drinking cups, one of which is decorated by no

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Rh less than twenty-two lines of dotted ornament running horizontally round the outside of the vessel. These hut floors, or 'pit-dwellings' were formed by sinking a floor 3–7 feet and throwing out the earth round the opening which was 14–20 feet in diameter; on the bank thus formed were placed stakes leaning towards the centre and supporting a roof of turf, bracken, or other material. Associated with the 'drinking-cups' were cinerary and other vessels, also fragments of ornamented pottery, bones of domestic animals, and part of a polished stone axe.

A hoard of bronze-age objects was found at New Bradwell in the year 1879. This hoard, which was contained in a deep cist filled with black earth and about 1 foot 6 inches deep, consisted of sixteen objects, namely, 9 socketed celts, 3 broken celts, 1 palstave, 2 spear-heads, and a leaf-shaped sword broken into four pieces. The site of the discovery is now occupied by the County Arms Hotel.

In the British Museum is a bronze palstave, 6 inches long, and not of uncommon type. It has sides and stop ridges, and a raised rib on the blade. It is of interest as having been found in Buckinghamshire, but the exact locality is not known.

Sir John Evans, in his treatise on the Ancient Bronze Implements, Weapons and Ornaments of Great Britain (page 333), records the discovery in the Thames near Datchet of an 'eyed' spear-head no less than 22 inches long; also of another spear-head (page 330) 22¼ inches long in the same locality, and now preserved in the British Museum.

The river-bed near Taplow, which may be considered to be as intimately related to Buckinghamshire as to Berkshire, has furnished some bronze-age weapons, etc., of an unusually interesting character. The British Museum possesses an important collection procured here, and presented in 1898 by Mrs. Ada Benson. The articles include five socketed spear-heads and two broken swords. One of the spear-heads

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200 and it was waged immediately in full fury in both Houses of Parliament—in both Houses of Convocation. There were conferences and counter-conferences. Cromwell, perhaps knowing that direct opposition was useless, was inclined to accept in words resolutions which he had determined to neutralize; Cranmer, more frank, if less sagacious, spoke fearlessly for three days in opposition; and the King himself took part in the debate, and argued with the rest. The settlement was long protracted. There were prorogations for further consideration, and intervals of other business, when Acts were passed which at any other moment would have seemed of immeasurable importance. The Romans, in periods of emergency, suspended their liberties and created a dictator. The English Parliament, frightened at the confusion of the country, and the peril of interests which they valued even more than liberty, extended the powers of the Crown. The preamble of the eighth of the thirty-first of Henry VIII. states that—