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CH. II classic, "The Art of Conversing." Kipps returned with these to his seat, placed the two before him, opened the latter with a sigh and flattened it under his hand.

Then with knitted brows he began to read onward from a mark, his lips moving.

"Having thus acquired possession of an idea, the little ship should not be abruptly launched into deep waters, but should be first permitted to glide gently and smoothly into the shallows, that is to say, the conversation should not be commenced by broadly and roundly stating a fact, or didactically expressing an opinion, as the subject would be thus virtually or summarily disposed of, or perhaps be met with a 'Really' or 'Indeed,' or some equally brief monosyllabic reply. If an opposite opinion were held by the person to whom the remark were addressed, he might not, if a stranger, care to express it in the form of a direct contradiction, or actual dissent. To glide imperceptibly into conversation is the object to be attained."

At this point Mr. Kipps rubbed his fingers through his hair with an expression of some perplexity and went back to the beginning.

When Kipps made his call on the Walshinghams, it all happened so differently from the "Manners and Rules" prescription ("Paying Calls") that he was quite lost from the very outset. Instead of the footman or maidservant proper in these cases, Miss

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210 Walshingham opened the door to him herself. "I'm so glad you've come," she said, with one of her rare smiles.

She stood aside for him to enter the rather narrow passage.

"I thought I'd call," he said, retaining his hat and stick.

She closed the door and led the way to a little drawing-room, which impressed Kipps as being smaller and less emphatically coloured than that of the Cootes, and in which at first only a copper bowl of white poppies upon the brown tablecloth caught his particular attention.

"You won't think it unconventional to come in, Mr. Kipps, will you?" she remarked. "Mother is out."

"I don't mind," he said, smiling amiably, "if you don't."

She walked around the table and stood regarding him across it, with that same look between speculative curiosity and appreciation that he remembered from the last of the art class meetings.

"I wondered whether you would call or whether you wouldn't before you left Folkestone."

"I'm not leaving Folkestone for a bit, and any'ow, I should have called on you."

"Mother will be sorry she was out. I've told her about you, and she wants, I know, to meet you."

"I saw 'er—if that was 'er—in the shop," said Kipps.

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CH. II "Yes—you did, didn't you! … She has gone out to make some duty calls, and I didn't go. I had something to write. I write a little, you know."

"Reely!" said Kipps.

"It's nothing much," she said, "and it comes to nothing." She glanced at a little desk near the window, on which there lay some paper. "One must do something." She broke off abruptly. "Have you seen our outlook?" she asked and walked to the window, and Kipps came and stood beside her. "We look on the Square. It might be worse, you know. That outporter's truck there is horrid—and the railings, but it's better than staring one's social replica in the face, isn't it? It's pleasant in early spring—bright green, laid on with a dry brush—and it's pleasant in autumn."

"I like It," said Kipps. "That laylock there is pretty, isn't it?"

"Children come and pick it at times," she remarked.

"I dessay they do," said Kipps.

He rested on his hat and stick and looked appreciatively out of the window, and she glanced at him for one swift moment. A suggestion that might have come from the Art of Conversing came into his head. "Have you a garden?" he said.

She shrugged her shoulders. "Only a little one," she said, and then, "perhaps you would like to see it."

"I like gardenin'," said Kipps, with memories of a

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212 pennyworth of nasturtiums he had once trained over his uncle's dustbin.

She led the way with a certain relief.

They emerged through a four seasons coloured glass door to a little iron verandah that led by iron steps to a minute walled garden. There was just room for a patch of turf and a flower-bed; one sturdy variegated Euonymus grew in the corner. But the early June flowers, the big narcissus, snow upon the mountains, and a fine show of yellow wallflowers shone gay.

"That's our garden," said Helen. "It's not a very big one, is it?"

"I like it," said Kipps.

"It's small," she said, "but this is the day of small things."

Kipps didn't follow that.

"If you were writing when I came," he remarked, "I'm interrupting you."

She turned round with her back to the railing and rested, leaning on her hands. "I had finished," she said. "I couldn't get on."

"Were you making up something?" asked Kipps.

There was a little interval before she smiled. "I try—quite vainly—to write stories," she said. "One must do something. I don't know whether I shall ever do any good—at that—anyhow. It seems so hopeless. And, of course, one must study the popular taste. But, now my brother has gone to London, I get a lot of leisure."

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CH. II "I seen your brother, 'aven't I?"

"He came to the class once or twice. Very probably you have. He's gone to London to pass his examinations and become a solicitor. And then, I suppose, he'll have a chance. Not much, perhaps, even then. But he's luckier than I am."

"You got your classes and things."

"They ought to satisfy me. But they don't. I suppose I'm ambitious. We both are. And we hadn't much of a springboard." She glanced over his shoulder at the cramped little garden with an air of reference in her gesture.

"I should think you could do anything if you wanted to," said Kipps.

"As a matter of fact I can't do anything I want to."

"You done a good deal."

"What?"

"Well, didn't you pass one of these here University things?"

"Oh! I matriculated!"

"I should think I was no end of a swell if I did, I know that."

"Mr. Kipps, do you know how many people matriculate into London University every year?"

"How many then?"

"Between two and three thousand."

"Well, just think how many don't!"

Her smile came again, and broke into a laugh. "Oh, they don't count," she said, and then, realising

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214 that might penetrate Kipps if he was left with it, she hurried on to, "The fact is, I'm a discontented person, Mr. Kipps. Folkestone, you know, is a Sea Front, and it values people by sheer vulgar prosperity. We're not prosperous, and we live in a back street. We have to live here because this is our house. It's a mercy we haven't to 'let.' One feels one hasn't opportunities. If one had, I suppose one wouldn't use them. Still"

Kipps felt he was being taken tremendously into her confidence. "That's jest it," he said, very sagely.

He leant forward on his stick and said, very earnestly, "I believe you could do anything you wanted to, if you tried."

She threw out her hands in disavowal.

"I know," said he, very sagely and nodding his head. "I watched you once or twice when you were teaching that wood-carving class."

For some reason this made her laugh—a rather pleasant laugh, and that made Kipps feel a very witty and successful person. "It's very evident," she said, "that you're one of those rare people who believe in me, Mr. Kipps," to which he answered, "Oo, I do!" and then suddenly they became aware of Mrs. Walshingham coming along the passage. In another moment she appeared through the four seasons door, bonneted and ladylike, and a little faded, exactly as Kipps had seen her in the shop. Kipps felt a certain apprehension at her appearance, in spite of the reassurances he had had from Coote.

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CH. II "Mr. Kipps has called on us," said Helen, and Mrs. Walshingham said it was very kind of him, and added that new people didn't call on them very much nowadays. There was nothing of the scandalised surprise Kipps had seen in the shop; she had heard, perhaps, he was a gentleman now. In the shop he had thought her rather jaded and haughty, but he had scarcely taken her hand, which responded to his touch with a friendly pressure, before he knew how mistaken he had been. She then told her daughter that someone called Mrs. Wace had been out, and turned to Kipps again to ask him if he had had tea. Kipps said he had not, and Helen moved towards some mysterious interior. "But I say," said Kipps; "don't you on my account!"

Helen vanished, and he found himself alone with Mrs. Walshingham, which, of course, made him breathless and Boreas-looking for a moment.

"You were one of Helen's pupils in the wood-carving class?" asked Mrs. Walshingham, regarding him with the quiet watchfulness proper to her position.

"Yes," said Kipps, "that's 'ow I 'ad the pleasure"

"She took a great interest in her wood-carving class. She is so energetic, you know, and it gives her an Outlet."

"I thought she taught something splendid."

"Everyone says she did very well. Helen, I think, would do anything well that she undertook to do.

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216 She's so very clever. And she throws herself into things so."

She untied her bonnet strings with a pleasant informality.

"She has told me all about her class. She used to be full of it. And about your cut hand."

"Lor'!" said Kipps; "fancy, telling that!"

"Oh, yes! And how brave you were."

(Though, indeed, Helen's chief detail had been his remarkable expedient for checking bloodshed.)

Kipps became bright pink. "She said you didn't seem to feel it a bit."

Kipps felt he would have to spend weeks over "The Art of Conversing."

While he still hung fire Helen returned with the apparatus for afternoon tea upon a tray.

"Do you mind pulling out the table?" asked Mrs. Walshingham.

That, again, was very homelike. Kipps put down his hat and stick in the corner and, amidst an iron thunder, pulled out a little, rusty, green-painted table, and then in the easiest manner followed Helen in to get chairs.

So soon as he had got rid of his teacup—he refused all food, of course, and they were merciful—he became wonderfully at his ease. Presently he was talking. He talked quite modestly and simply about his changed condition and his difficulties and plans. He spread what indeed had an air of being all his simple little soul before his eyes. In a little while his clipped,

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CH. II defective accent had become less perceptible to their ears, and they began to realise, as the girl with the freckles had long since realised, that there were passable aspects of Kipps. He confided, he submitted, and for both of them he had the realest, the most seductively flattering untertone of awe and reverence.

He stopped about two hours, having forgotten how terribly incorrect it is to stay at such a length. They did not mind at all.

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text: Page:Ambassador Morgenthau's Story.djvu/329


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 THE SOLDIER LIFTED THE DOG DOWN ON THE FLOOR AND OPENED THE CHEST.


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Copyright by Clinedinst, Washington, D. C.


text: Page:Famous Living Americans, with Portraits.djvu/450


text: Page:First Footsteps in East Africa, 1894 - Volume 2.djvu/237


text: Page:Forgotten Man and Other Essays.djvu/571


text: Page:General Zoology vol. 1 pt. 2.djvu/206


text: Page:Great Men and Famous Women Volume 3.djvu/151


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text: Page:Harold Dennis Taylor - A System of Applied Optics.djvu/377


text: Page:History of Manchester (1771), Volume 1, by John Whitaker.djvu/71


text: Page:History of New South Wales from the records, Volume 2.djvu/195


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 BEYOND THE AMUR

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 VIEW OF MECCAH. From the "Hilal", 1902.


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text: Page:Notes and Queries - Series 5 - Volume 8.djvu/1


text: Page:Notes and Queries - Series 8 - Volume 2.djvu/4


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text: Page:Of the Principle and Duties of Natural Religion, 6th ed., 1710.djvu/6


text: Page:Poetical works of Mathilde Blind.djvu/319


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text: Page:Rabelais - Gargantua Pantagruel, translation Urquhart Motteux.djvu/8


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text: Page:Sacred Books of the East - Volume 42.djvu/808


text: Page:South Carolina Historical and Genealogical Magazine, v6.djvu/208


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title: Page:Story of the robins.djvu/235


text: Page:The Cambridge History of American Literature, v2.djvu/676


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text: Page:Transactions of the Provincial Medical and Surgical Association, volume 17.djvu/1


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 BIBLE WOMEN.


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 DEVIL POSTS.


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text: Page:The Return of Sherlock Holmes, edition published in 1905 by McClure, Phillips & Co., New York..djvu/407


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 a dainty Dish

13

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362 Birds eye sketch.


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text: Page:Rewards and Fairies (Kipling, 1910).djvu/309


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text: Page:The poems of John Godfrey Saxe.djvu/389


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text: Page:The poetical works of James Thomson (1895), Volume 1.djvu/106


text: Page:Women in Love, Lawrence, 1920.djvu/5


text:
Page:Japanese flower arrangement.djvu/204

 the natural growth of the plant from which your flowers have been gathered. If the flowers have been given you and you are ignorant of their natural tendency, bear in mind that variety is one of your chief aims. If you have only three flowers, do not put the bud at the top, the half-open one for Man, and the full-blown for Earth; but if you start with a bud, mix up the flower forms in some way. As has been already explained, there are two styles in one or the other of which every arrangement of flowers must be made. These styles are also distinguished by the names of in and yo. The colors of flowers are given this same distinction. Purple, red, pink, and variegated colors are classified as masculine, whereas yellow, white, and blue are feminine. This guides one in arranging flowers of different colors in the same vase, the masculine colors always taking the most important and highest position in the group. The one exception to this rule is white flowers. White flowers of every variety hold the highest rank. [198]


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Osman, John James


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Outtrim, Hon. Alfred Richard


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Owen, Major-General John Fletcher


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Owen, Hon. Robert


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Owen, His Honour William


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Packer, Frederick Augustus


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Packer, John Edward


text: The Dictionary of Australasian Biography/Palmer, Colonel the Hon. Sir Arthur Hunter


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text: Studies of a Biographer/William Godwin's Novels


title: Wikisource:Works/2013


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Page:The Clipper Ship Era.djvu/220

168 a distinguished company of more than two hundred persons.

At about eleven o'clock, everything being ready, the Witch of the Wave, with colors flying and the Boston Cadet Band on board playing "The Star Spangled Banner," was towed out into the stream amid the shouts and cheers of a multitude of people, who thronged the wharves and shipyards along the river. After passing through the Narrows and rounding New Castle Point, the R. B. Forbes, which had been towing alongside, took her hawser out ahead and shaped a course for Cape Ann, which brought the wind well over the starboard quarter.

The breeze had freshened, though the sea was still quite smooth, and this, with the clear, blue sky and bright sunshine, made a day altogether too fine to be spent on shore.

Many of those on board were interested to see what effect some canvas would have on the new clipper, so Mr. Raynes said to Captain Bertram that he thought it might perhaps be a good plan to set some sail, "just to assist the tow-boat a little." Captain Bertram, with a twinkle in his eye, said he thought so, too, and gave orders to loose the topsails, jib, and foretopmast staysail. The Witch of the Wave had a crew of Portsmouth riggers, shipped by the run to Boston, and it did not take them long to put the topsails on her. As soon as the yards were braced, she began to dart through the water like a fish, and soon ranged up on the weather beam of the R. B. Forbes, the hawser towing between them with the bight skipping along among the blue waves in showers of sparkling spray.

title: Page:The Clipper Ship Era.djvu/220


text:
Page:The Clipper Ship Era.djvu/432

348 And so I have endeavored to record the leading events of an era in maritime history long ago departed; and however much the remarkable development of steam navigation may have contributed to the welfare of mankind, I think that the memory of the clipper ships and the men who built and commanded them, will always find a welcome in the hearts of those who know and love the sea.

title: Page:The Clipper Ship Era.djvu/432


text: Author talk:George Nuttall Nuttall-Smith


text: Author:Richard Leigh

title: Author:Richard Leigh


text:
Page:Dictionary of National Biography volume 32.djvu/6

Rh vi List of Writers. N. M. .. . . Nobman Moore, M.D. J. B. M.. . J. Bass Mulunqrb. A. N. .... Albbbt Nicholson. K. N Miss Katb Nobgate. C. N. .... CONOLLY NOBMAN, F.R.C.P. F. M. O'D. F. M. O'Donoghue. S. P. 0.. . Captain S. Pasfisld Oliver. J. H. 0.. . Thb Rev. Canon Overton. H. P. .... Henry Paton. S. L.-P. . . Stanley Lane-Poole. B. P. .... Miss Pobtbr, E. L. R.. . Mrs. Radford. W. R^l. . . The Rev. William Rbynbll, B.D, J. M. R.. . J. M. Rigg. T. B. S.. . T. Bailby Saunders. T. S. .... Thomas Sbccombb. R. F. S.. . R. Fabquhabson Shabp. W. A. S.. . W. A. Shaw. C.F. S.. . Miss Fell Smith. G.W. S.. . The Rev. 0. W. Sprott, D.D L. S. ... . Leslie Stephen. . W. S.. . C. W. Sutton. J. T-t. . . . James Tait. H. B. T.. . H. R. Tedder. T. F. T.. . Professor T. F. Tour. E. V. .. . . The Rev. Canon Vbnablbs. R. H. V.. . Colonel R. H. Vetch, R.E. E. W... . . Edward Walfobd. J. R. W.. . Thb Rbv. J. R. Washbourn. m. a. w. . The Rev. M. G. Watkins. . W-H. . . Charles Welch, F.S.A. W. W. .. . Wabwice Wboth, F.S.A.


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Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/197

Rh But she was full of joy, nevertheless. William had brought her his sporting trophies. She kept them still, and she did not forgive his death. Arthur was handsome—at least, a good specimen—and warm and generous, and probably would do well in the end. But Paul was going to distinguish himself. She had a great belief in him, the more because he was unaware of his own powers. There was so much to come out of him. Life for her was rich with promise. She was to see herself fulfilled. Not for nothing had been her struggle.

Several times during the exhibition Mrs. Morel went to the Castle unknown to Paul. She wandered down the long room looking at the other exhibits. Yes, they were good. But they had not in them a certain something which she demanded for her satisfaction. Some made her jealous, they were so good. She looked at them a long time trying to find fault with them. Then suddenly she had a shock that made her heart beat. There hung Paul’s picture! She knew it as if it were printed on her heart.

“Name—Paul Morel—First Prize.”

It looked so strange, there in public, on the walls of the Castle gallery, where in her lifetime she had seen so many pictures. And she glanced round to see if anyone had noticed her again in front of the same sketch.

But she felt a proud woman. When she met well-dressed ladies going home to the Park, she thought to herself:

“Yes, you look very well—but I wonder if your son has two first prizes in the Castle.”

And she walked on, as proud a little woman as any in Nottingham. And Paul felt he had done something for her, if only a trifle. All his work was hers.

One day, as he was going up Castle Gate, he met Miriam. He had seen her on the Sunday, and had not expected to meet her in town. She was walking with a rather striking woman, blonde, with a sullen expression, and a defiant carriage. It was strange how Miriam, in her bowed, meditative bearing, looked dwarfed beside this woman with the handsome shoulders. Miriam watched Paul searchingly. His gaze was on the stranger, who ignored him. The girl saw his masculine spirit rear its head.

“Hello!” he said, “you didn’t tell me you were coming to town.”

“No,” replied Miriam, half apologetically. “I drove in to Cattle Market with father.”

He looked at her companion.


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Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/198

186 “I’ve told you about Mrs. Dawes,” said Miriam huskily; she was nervous. “Clara, do you know Paul?”

“I think I’ve seen him before,” replied Mrs. Dawes indifferently, as she shook hands with him. She had scornful grey eyes, a skin like white honey, and a full mouth, with a slightly lifted upper lip that did not know whether it was raised in scorn of all men or out of eagerness to be kissed, but which believed the former. She carried her head back, as if she had drawn away in contempt, perhaps from men also. She wore a large, dowdy hat of black beaver, and a sort of slightly affected simple dress that made her look rather sack-like. She was evidently poor, and had not much taste. Miriam usually looked nice.

“Where have you seen me?” Paul asked of the woman.

She looked at him as if she would not trouble to answer. Then:

“Walking with Louie Travers,” she said.

Louie was one of the “spiral” girls.

“Why, do you know her?” he asked.

She did not answer. He turned to Miriam.

“Where are you going?” he asked.

“To the Castle.”

“What train are you going home by?”

“I am driving with father. I wish you could come too. What time are you free?”

“You know not till eight to-night, damn it!”

And directly the two women moved on.

Paul remembered that Clara Dawes was the daughter of an old friend of Mrs. Leivers. Miriam had sought her out because she had once been spiral overseer at Jordan’s, and because her husband, Baxter Dawes, was smith for the factory, making the irons for cripple instruments, and so on. Through her Miriam felt she got into direct contact with Jordan’s, and could estimate better Paul’s position. But Mrs. Dawes was separated from her husband, and had taken up Women’s Rights. She was supposed to be clever. It interested Paul.

Baxter Dawes he knew and disliked. The smith was a man of thirty-one or thirty-two. He came occasionally through Paul’s corner—a big, well-set man, also striking to look at, and handsome. There was a peculiar similarity between himself and his wife. He had the same white skin, with a clear, golden tinge. His hair was of soft brown, his moustache was golden. And he had a similar defiance in his bearing


text:
Category:Templates with microformats

Microformat
These template emit an hCard microformat, using the HTML classes,  , , and.

They are intentional. Please do not remove these, nor collapse the nested elements which apply them.

title: Category:Templates with microformats


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Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/199

Rh and manner. But then came the difference. His eyes, dark brown and quick-shifting, were dissolute. They protruded very slightly, and his eyelids hung over them in a way that was half hate. His mouth, too, was sensual. His whole manner was of cowed defiance, as if he were ready to knock anybody down who disapproved of him—perhaps because he really disapproved of himself.

From the first day he had hated Paul. Finding the lad’s impersonal, deliberate gaze of an artist on his face, he got into a fury.

“What are yer lookin’ at?” he sneered, bullying.

The boy glanced away. But the smith used to stand behind the counter and talk to Mr. Pappleworth. His speech was dirty, with a kind of rottenness. Again he found the youth with his cool, critical gaze fixed on his face. The smith started round as if he had been stung.

“What’r yer lookin’ at, three hap’orth o’ pap?” he snarled.

The boy shrugged his shoulders slightly.

“Why yer——!” shouted Dawes.

“Leave him alone,” said Mr. Pappleworth, in that insinuating voice which means, ‘he’s only one of your good little sops who can’t help it.’

Since that time the boy used to look at the man every time he came through with the same curious criticism, glancing away before he met the smith’s eye. It made Dawes furious. They hated each other in silence.

Clara Dawes had no children. When she had left her husband the home had been broken up, and she had gone to live with her mother. Dawes lodged with his sister. In the same house was a sister-in-law, and somehow Paul knew that this girl, Louie Travers, was now Dawes’s woman. She was a handsome, insolent hussy, who mocked at the youth, and yet flushed if he walked along to the station with her as she went home.

The next time he went to see Miriam it was Saturday evening. She had a fire in the parlour, and was waiting for him. The others, except her father and mother and the young children, had gone out, so the two had the parlour together. It was a long, low, warm room. There were three of Paul’s small sketches on the wall, and his photo was on the mantelpiece. On the table and on the high old rosewood piano were bowls of coloured leaves. He sat in the armchair, she crouched on the hearthrug near his feet. The glow


text:
User talk:Pigsonthewing

Community norm for production of subpages in periodicals
Hi. The community has expressed its production of journal articles and the setup of subpages. If you think that we can be doing it better then please have that conversation with the community and we can review what we have and reach a consensus. Just ignoring all the norms that are in place is problematic as it leads to a chaotic approach; makes patrolling harder and makes the application of metadata harder again. I know that you love your maverick mantle and having things done your way, however, it does cause disharmony, and it does cause confusion. So please go and have that conversation so better and modern ideas of what is possible can arise, we can and should review an approach adopted in late 2000s, however, change should be done through consensus. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:06, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Please avoid making personal ad-hominem, attacks.
 * As I said in my edit summary I reverted your edits for "Consistency with the rest of the volume (and with Nature (journal))" (I think it was The Comet that I took as my model; it certainly uses the same format I did). I'm not clear why you changed only two of the several articles in the volume concerned, but is it not the case that the Wikisource community has decided that, as a "norm", volumes should be internally consistent? Does lack of such consistency not cause confusion?
 * Meanwhile, please feel free to point me at the discussion where the community consensus to which you refer occurred, or is documented. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:29, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay. I did two and addressed it to you. I thought that was a better approach than just botting the whole work. FWUW Nature is not a good example of a work to follow. PSM and many many other periodicals are here and done in the means I described. Anyway, I will take it to the community (again). — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:23, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So Nature is done differently to PSM? So much for "all the norms that are in place". Still waiting for the requested link to discussion or documentation. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:03, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Author:Mary Ann Jackson
I see that you moved the author page, but the page still calls her Mary Jackson Henry, contrary to the note on her book "Various modern sources misattribute this work to "Henry, Mary Jackson"". Do you know who Mary Jackson Henry was ? -- Beardo (talk) 12:50, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Fixed; Mary Jackson Henry was a United States author; see, which is one of many sources to conflate the two women. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The Pictorial Flora; or British Botany Delineated/Preface/001-132
Also, I have tagged this page for speedy delete as it seems to duplicate The Pictorial Flora; or British Botany Delineated/001-132 with an incorrect page name. -- Beardo (talk) 13:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Good call; thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Page:A Selection of Original Songs, Scraps, Etc., by Ned Farmer (3rd ed.).djvu/119
I erred in validating PG 99 - The King of Terrors. It was missing "The King of Terrors.", which I added. However, I overlooked that is is also missing the page number, and the heading "New Farmer's Scrap Book". Please add it and let me know if I need to re-validate the page. Thanks. Maile66 (talk) 00:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Done, and thank you for validating. All seems to be good, now. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:18, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Pigsonthewing


text:
Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/200

188 was warm on her handsome, pensive face as she kneeled there like a devotee.

“What did you think of Mrs. Dawes?” she asked quietly.

“She doesn’t look very amiable,” he replied.

“No, but don’t you think she’s a fine woman?” she said, in a deep tone.

“Yes in stature. But without a grain of taste. I like her for some things. Is she disagreeable?”

“I don’t think so. I think she’s dissatisfied.”

“What with?”

“Well how would you like to be tied for life to a man like that?”

“Why did she marry him, then, if she was to have revulsions so soon?”

“Ay, why did she!” repeated Miriam bitterly.

“And I should have thought she had enough fight in her to match him,” he said.

Miriam bowed her head.

“Ay?” she queried satirically. “What makes you think so?”

“Look at her mouth made for passion and the very set-back of her throat——” He threw his head back in Clara’s defiant manner.

Miriam bowed a little lower.

“Yes,” she said.

There was a silence for some moments, while he thought of Clara.

“And what were the things you liked about her?” she asked.

“I don’t know—her skin and the texture of her—and her—I don’t know—there’s a sort of fierceness somewhere in her. I appreciate her as an artist, that’s all.”

“Yes.”

He wondered why Miriam crouched there brooding in that strange way. It irritated him.

“You don’t really like her, do you?” he asked the girl.

She looked at him with her great, dazzled dark eyes.

“I do,” she said.

“You don’t—you can’t—not really.”

“Then what?” she asked slowly.

“Eh, I don’t know—perhaps you like her because she’s got a grudge against men.”

That was more probably one of his own reasons for liking


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Old, John


text:
Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/201

Rh Mrs. Dawes, but this did not occur to him. They were silent. There had come into his forehead a knitting of the brows which was becoming habitual with him, particularly when he was with Miriam. She longed to smooth it away, and she was afraid of it. It seemed the stamp of a man who was not her man in Paul Morel.

There were some crimson berries among the leaves in the bowl. He reached over and pulled out a bunch.

“If you put red berries in your hair,” he said, “why would you look like some witch or priestess, and never like a reveller?”

She laughed with a naked, painful sound.

“I don’t know,” she said.

His vigorous warm hands were playing excitedly with the berries.

“Why can’t you laugh?” he said. “You never laugh laughter. You only laugh when something is odd or incongruous, and then it almost seems to hurt you.”

She bowed her head as if he were scolding her.

“I wish you could laugh at me just for one minute—just for one minute. I feel as if it would set something free.”

“But”—and she looked up at him with eyes frightened and struggling—“I do laugh at you—I do.”

“Never! There’s always a kind of intensity. When you laugh I could always cry; it seems as if it shows up your suffering. Oh, you make me knit the brows of my very soul and cogitate.”

Slowly she shook her head despairingly.

“I’m sure I don’t want to,” she said.

“I’m so damned spiritual with you always!” he cried.

She remained silent, thinking, “Then why don’t you be otherwise.” But he saw her crouching, brooding figure, and it seemed to tear him in two.

“But, there, it’s autumn,” he said, “and everybody feels like a disembodied spirit then.”

There was still another silence. This peculiar sadness between them thrilled her soul. He seemed so beautiful with his eyes gone dark, and looking as if they were deep as the deepest well.

“You make me so spiritual!” he lamented. “And I don’t want to be spiritual.”

She took her finger from her mouth with a little pop, and looked up at him almost challenging. But still her soul was naked in her great dark eyes, and there was the same yearning appeal upon her. If he could have kissed her in abstract


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Oldcorne, Edward


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Oldenburg, Henry


text:
Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/202

190 purity he would have done so. But he could not kiss her thus—and she seemed to leave no other way. And she yearned to him.

He gave a brief laugh.

“Well,” he said, “get that French and we’ll do some—some Verlaine.”

“Yes,” she said in a deep tone, almost of resignation. And she rose and got the books. And her rather red, nervous hands looked so pitiful, he was mad to comfort her and kiss her. But then he dared not—or could not. There was something prevented him. His kisses were wrong for her. They continued the reading till ten o’clock, when they went into the kitchen, and Paul was natural and jolly again with the father and mother. His eyes were dark and shining; there was a kind of fascination about him.

When he went into the barn for his bicycle he found the front wheel punctured.

“Fetch me a drop of water in a bowl,” he said to her. “I shall be late, and then I s’ll catch it.”

He lighted the hurricane lamp, took off his coat, turned up the bicycle, and set speedily to work. Miriam came with the bowl of water and stood close to him, watching. She loved to see his hands doing things. He was slim and vigorous, with a kind of easiness even in his most hasty movements. And busy at his work, he seemed to forget her. She loved him absorbedly. She wanted to run her hands down his sides. She always wanted to embrace him, so long as he did not want her.

“There!” he said, rising suddenly. “Now, could you have done it quicker?”

“No!” she laughed.

He straightened himself. His back was towards her. She put her two hands on his sides, and ran them quickly down.

“You are so fine!” she said.

He laughed, hating her voice, but his blood roused to a wave of flame by her hands. She did not seem to realize him in all this. He might have been an object. She never realized the male he was.

He lighted his bicycle-lamp, bounced the machine on the barn floor to see that the tyres were sound, and buttoned his coat.

“That’s all right!” he said.

She was trying the brakes, that she knew were broken.

“Did you have them mended?” she asked.


text:
Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/203

Rh “No!”

“But why didn’t you?”

“The back one goes on a bit.”

“But it’s not safe.”

“I can use my toe.”

“I wish you’d had them mended,” she murmured.

“Don’t worry come to tea to-morrow, with Edgar.”

“Shall we?”

“Do—about four. I’ll come to meet you.”

“Very well.”

She was pleased. They went across the dark yard to the gate. Looking across, he saw through the uncurtained window of the kitchen the heads of Mr. and Mrs. Leivers in the warm glow. It looked very cosy. The road, with pine-trees, was quite black in front.

“Till to-morrow,” he said, jumping on his bicycle.

“You’ll take care, won’t you?” she pleaded.

“Yes.”

His voice already came out of the darkness. She stood a moment watching the light from his lamp race into obscurity along the ground. She turned very slowly indoors. Orion was wheeling up over the wood, his dog twinkling after him, half smothered. For the rest, the world was full of darkness, and silent, save for the breathing of cattle in their stalls. She prayed earnestly for his safety that night. When he left her, she often lay in anxiety, wondering if he had got home safely.

He dropped down the hills on his bicycle. The roads were greasy, so he had to let it go. He felt a pleasure as the machine plunged over the second, steeper drop in the hill. “Here goes!” he said. It was risky, because of the curve in the darkness at the bottom, and because of the brewers’ waggons with drunken waggoners asleep. His bicycle seemed to fall beneath him, and he loved it. Recklessness is almost a man’s revenge on his woman. He feels he is not valued, so he will risk destroying himself to deprive her altogether.

The stars on the lake seemed to leap like grasshoppers, silver upon the blackness, as he spun past. Then there was the long climb home.

“See, mother!” he said, as he threw her the berries and leaves on to the table.

“H’m!” she said, glancing at them, then away again. She sat reading, alone, as she always did.


text:
Page:Sons and Lovers, 1913, Lawrence.djvu/204

192 “Aren’t they pretty?”

“Yes.”

He knew she was cross with him. After a few minutes he said:

“Edgar and Miriam are coming to tea to-morrow.”

She did not answer.

“You don’t mind?”

Still she did not answer.

“Do you?” he asked.

“You know whether I mind or not.”

“I don’t see why you should. I have plenty of meals there.”

“You do.”

“Then why do you begrudge them tea?”

“I begrudge whom tea?”

“What are you so horrid for?”

“Oh, say no more! You’ve asked her to tea, it’s quite sufficient. She’ll come.”

He was very angry with his mother. He knew it was merely Miriam she objected to. He flung off his boots and went to bed.

Paul went to meet his friends the next afternoon. He was glad to see them coming. They arrived home at about four o’clock. Everywhere was clean and still for Sunday afternoon. Mrs. Morel sat in her black dress and black apron. She rose to meet the visitors. With Edgar she was cordial, but with Miriam cold and rather grudging. Yet Paul thought the girl looked so nice in her brown cashmere frock.

He helped his mother to get the tea ready. Miriam would have gladly proffered, but was afraid. He was rather proud of his home. There was about it now, he thought, a certain distinction. The chairs were only wooden, and the sofa was old. But the hearthrug and cushions were cosy; the pictures were prints in good taste; there was a simplicity in everything, and plenty of books. He was never ashamed in the least of his home, nor was Miriam of hers, because both were what they should be, and warm. And then he was proud of the table; the china was pretty, the cloth was fine. It did not matter that the spoons were not silver nor the knives ivory-handled; everything looked nice. Mrs. Morel had managed wonderfully while her children were growing up, so that nothing was out of place.

Miriam talked books a little. That was her unfailing topic. But Mrs. Morel was not cordial, and turned soon to Edgar.

At first Edgar and Miriam used to go into Mrs. Morel’s


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Oldfield, Anne


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Oldfield, Henry George


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Oldfield, John (1627?-1682)


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Oldfield, John (1789-1863)


text: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Olivers, Thomas


text:
Template talk:Header/2009

Adding a way to categorize the author or title
Is there any way to add a category for the title and author. That way a person can just type in "category:Aesop's Fables" and see the list of fables? 69.120.130.231 15:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Propose add "See also"
I would like to add reference for the style to add Anonymous authors, and was thinking to add a section at the bottom that referred onto Anon. Alternate suggestions welcomed. -- billinghurst (talk) 01:26, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Suggest add
I would like to see the addition of  akin to   so that the active hyperlink can be excluded in the   field. Thanks. -- billinghurst (talk) 22:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

So would I. I went ahead and used the parameter for Visit of the Hon. Carl Schurz to Boston/Reception by German Citizens/Address by Professor Krauss. The provider of the translation in this case is the same as the author which was specified as. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 12:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tried editing twice but the result would not show up. I may need an expert.--Jusjih (talk) 02:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Year
I suggest that a year = section be added to allow for speedy categorization within the header by year. Geoff Plourde (talk) 20:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Which year? Original publication? The edition we host? Year of translation? ... Eclecticology - the offended (talk) 05:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This function has a head start. If you want to specify which year, enhanced function will be better but complex. Pending that, just write in the note for now.--Jusjih (talk) 18:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That wasn't quite my question. If a year appears in the header, how are we supposed to know what it represents. Is it one of the possibilities that I mentioned, or even something else. Eclecticology - the offended (talk) 20:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would suggest the year of the work for which copyright will apply. So it becomes the  .  If it is getting more complex then that, then that would be the guidance for Keep it Simple. -- billinghurst (talk) 07:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The year doesn't necessarily appear in the header, it is for categorization purposes. Geoff Plourde (talk) 19:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I did not mean adding the year to the header, rather a field that adds the page to Category:X works. Geoff Plourde (talk) 19:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That sounds worse. Publishing details should continue to appear on the page itself, while the utility of such categories is marginal at best. Eclecticology - the offended (talk) 22:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't object to the year being added to notes, but the "in the year" method is ugly. Geoff Plourde (talk) 19:34, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

class
Hi. How could I add a new class like "headertemplate" to my own wiki? I wanted to add this template to my wiki but I found out that I need the above css class. --80.71.122.147 11:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Hello 80.71. The CSS classes for this template are defined at MediaWiki:Common.css. Just copy the code below to "MediaWiki:Common.css" on your wiki, and update your browser cache to see the changes.

 * — Pathoschild 12:02:04, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

 * thanks --80.71.125.133 11:22, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Correct the override_translator
Please correct the code with the code from http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sandbox&oldid=1220547 You can see some of my testcases in http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Sandbox&oldid=1220550. It makes the override_translator works. Vinhtantran (talk) 11:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Oops we missed this. Apologies.

 * An edit has already been undertaken to header and you can see the results of the your test against this file at http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Sandbox&oldid=1529995 billinghurst (talk) 12:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Header and Scans
I would like to propose that we look to add (yet) another field to header that provides a direct link to the relevant image file Index: page. Tentatively call field   though I could be convinced to call it a number of things.

I would propose that the field be
 * non-mandatory
 * a) not all works have scans, b) I would envisage to use this more where a work is divided into sub-pages, and the Table of Contents is the more usual on the main page. Noting that normal transclusion processes show page links where transcluded directly

 * show as the first component in the Notes display
 * have a standard visual text "Link to scans"
 * or whatever we chose to call it

 * that the information by the filename without the INDEX namespace rider
 * more flexible and akin to how we handle images

 * possible pick up the status of the work, similar to the pictogram used (top of page) where pages are transcluded directly

Probably other things that others can add or vary. -- billinghurst (talk) 12:08, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

 * First thoughts are that this sounds like a great idea! If it were to pick up the status of the work (eg. validated) it would be most useful if it only considered the pages transcluded by the article itself. Suicidalhamster (talk) 19:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Translator aesthetics
Hi. Would it be possible to make some minor changes to the formatting of the optional "translator" parameter?

Currently it appears on the same line after the author with a comma in between. Even the common is unaesthetic, for some reason an unneeded space appears after the author's name and before the comma.

But it would be preferable for the author to have his own line, and for the name of the translator to appear afterwards on the next line. Is this possible? Desirable? Dovi (talk) 19:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

 * The space before the comma seems to be due to the table formatting, and there is presumably a cellspacing or cellpadding within class=headertemplate.
 * The ideas around the formatting of the author and translator within header pre-dates me and I would presume it is about not making the table longer than necessary. It is not something with which I wish to play and doesn't upset as it is, that said I am not against the idea of a change being explored. billinghurst (talk) 22:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The space is somewhere in the nested #if: statements. Still looking. billinghurst (talk) 23:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * space issue found and ✅. It was actually removing two different spaces within #if: statements and placing it in another place. billinghurst (talk) 23:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Header/2009


text:
Template talk:Header/2010

Interwiki Ru
Please correct Russian interwiki, it should point to ru:Template:Отексте. — Lozman (talk) 23:58, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. You could have done it yourself; the interwikis are on Template:Header/doc, which is not protected. Hesperian 00:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Bah [looking conflict]!, I wondered why it looked right to me. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:26, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

year fix
It needs a space to avoid, "In Flanders Fields (1921)by John McCrae" Cygnis insignis (talk) 23:47, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:42, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

link in footer
This doesn't appear to be working, they display correctly (red/blue) but are not clickable. cygnis insignis 11:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The link now works in the footer, but when I click through to an adjacent subpage it doesn't; it shows unclickable links again. cygnis insignis 12:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

italicise title instead of author
Currently this yields As far as I can tell, the only reason the second line is italicised is to increase the visual distinction between it and the first line. But as there is a fairly strong real-world convention to italicise titles, and not authors, it seems to me that this is a bit backwards. I would like to change it to yield Thoughts? Hesperian 02:50, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd agree with your reasoning about it having being done for the visual difference. That said, if we were going to look at a change, I think that it would be worthwhile taking the extra step back and to review headers from first principles and how we represent titles of works, versus titles of collections, and how we utilise individual works with collections. For instance: Index:Mandragora.djvu; Index:Essays in librarianship and bibliography.djvu and Index:Lectures on Modern History.djvu all by the same authors, then compare it to journals and the like, eg. Popular Science Monthly which are collections by different authors. The issues that I see are
 * physical presentation (as you identified)
 * author association with the individual work, or the collection (especially in shared works)
 * is the title the collection or the individual work? Especially if the parts of the collection have been elsewhere
 * there is also criteria built into Index: framework to identify the type of the work and to present it. ThomasV has part of the framework in place, though not implemented (which I believe he has done at frWS)
 * — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:47, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it possible to have italic for the title by using the section field, this PSM example gives the hierarchy of the 'sections'. Note also the previous and next fields at this example link the previous volume and the next article. I think confusion is generated by the tendency to use the field title to show a meta-title, what is actually the name of a section of the actual source. The section field could show section links, volume, issue and the PSM title taken from page "The Industrial Type of Society". If the text had come from a Political Institutions, being Part V of the Principles of Sociology (The Concluding Portion of Vol. II) (London: Williams and Norgate, 1882) it displays any subpage structure in the section field, down to and including "CHAPTER XVIII.: the militant[!] type of society" if one followed this as a source. 'Militant' and Industrial' are part of a full citation, the half title for these sources is Principles of Sociology and Popular Science Monthly and that would be linked in italic (and bold) from title=.
 * Title can autoformat if it only names the top level label, if we push the rest to section; this is flexible enough to accommodate 'collections' of same or different authors.
 * The type of source should be considered irrelevant, I think this consideration stems from the earlier practice of fragmenting works to pages with titles of sections and divorcing it from its actual source. The top level of a subpage structure give the details of the whole work, the section header includes info like its author and access to any subpage structure. Cygnis insignis (talk) 14:14, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I was probably indirect in the mentioning of the ambiguity with the author of the work vs part of the work.  For the DNB we use a modified header DNB00 which puts the author details in a different location, and one that is slightly more obvious. — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The DNB is not subpaged, a side issue that pushes a user to a dab of a meta-title Blake, William, but where would the scheme fail for that example. It is considered to be a 'reference work', but that should not affect the header or subpage arrangement either. The fragmentation of that work is another issue that impacts on the rest of our catalogue. Why is putting the author on its own line 'more obvious'? In the PSM example I modified the title of the section "The Industrial Type of Society" is followed with "... by Herbert Spencer". The DNB template style creates a new line for the author, it is 'less obvious' what Anne Gilchrist is the author of, though the title page and the text itself show the various authors - the article is by "A. G-t.", perhaps with changes by "the editors". Cygnis insignis (talk) 15:28, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Add "see also" and "shortcut", and document code
I would like to be able to have an author-style way of linking to the relevant Wikipedia or Commons page from a work. Many of our works have Wikipedia article, and many have Commons categories or pages (if fact any with scans should have). I have made the modifications [here], and you can see the result [here]. I also commented all of the code so that you can now actually see what is happening :-O. If people could try to break this template to look for bugs, I would be grateful. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  03:52, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This was a discussion that has taken place earlier in places (was in Scriptorium at one time and focused on aligning the format of wikipedia, commonscat, etc.), and from that evolved the less obtrusive plain sister and another (forgotten name) which can be used within the notes field, rather than looking to further complicate the header template. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This was the aim of plain sister and its kin interwikidiscreet, to imitate and eventually merge the 'author-page style' sister links into the header. Including this in the author template is not problematic, other than the inclusion of non-existent links, why would it be here? Those templates are very close to this suggestion, producing very similar output in the notes field. It is frequently needed on a parent (title) page, perhaps on subpages as well, and because it is like the author template, it accords with a widely deployed navigational arrangement. I support inclusion and merging every other interwiki template into this. Cygnis insignis (talk) 05:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I have never noticed those templates before. But I have seen a lot of people using the big and bulky wikipedia templates in the "notes" field. If we would incorporate plain sister into the header template, we should also incorporate it into the author template (replacing the links we have now) and the portal header template. This would outsource the parameter parsing to plain sister, meaning less code in header, author and portal template.
 * I have added plain sister to portal header as an demonstration of what I envision for header and author. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  07:09, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the way it was merged into the portal template. I'd love to see it merged as well into the header template, since I think both alternatives (plain sister and the clunky wikipedia templates) are too cumbersome.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 13:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * While I am ambivalent(ish) about merge or not as I don't find it a burden to add, and it gives me a little flexibility on positioning, and possibility of alternates. On a thought along a similar line, we should be looking to extract common css codes and the colours of each these different header templates into common.css and simplifying the editing, and the call of the like colours as needed. — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * plain sister also merged into my sandbox's version. See here, and result here. Remember that the box disappears if you don't use it, so if you really need alternative placement, you can do it as you do now. However, a unified approach would be better wherever possible, in my opinion. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  14:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The unified CSS code is now in place, and applies to all header templates (header, author, process header, portal header). See Mediawiki_talk:Common.css for a list of the new classes. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  04:35, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Just to clarify what I'm hoping is going to happen: When I create an Author page the template has fields to wikipedia, commons and quote. I find this very convenient for checking and creating content elsewhere, and as a reader I know exactly where to click on the page as I browse around. Apologies if this has already been addressed above. I used the model someone created for 'plain sister' to tout the desired outcome, I hope it becomes redundant and is eventually deleted. cygnis insignis 12:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * These first two should appear, and be left, as parameters in the header template whena page is created.
 * Perhaps the commons link should default to commonscat.
 * The set of links should be extendable, to include other sisters. Maybe this is neater in a separate template?
 * The output might need better labels and/or icons, or a left aligned sentence, but they will become as familiar to users as I think they are on the author pages.
 * That is the plan. Except that I am planning to use plain sister directly, so that the parameter parsing is outsourced away from the header template. See Portal header for what I plan to do. I prefer plain sister to interwikidiscreet because it has more uses, so it will be easier to delete interwikidiscreet. Also "interwiki" may mean inter-language, but "sister" means the other projects. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  14:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, if there are no objections, I am going to change to the version here. Changes are:
 * Improved code readability (comments and spacing)
 * Add fields for sister wikis, using plain sister
 * Add field for shortcut (for works like EB1911, Colliers, etc). This adds a tracking category to make it easy to check for abuse.
 * Any objections, thoughts or comments? Inductiveload— talk/contribs  13:44, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds okay to me. We should make specific note on plain sister that it is embedded into these templates, or maybe better some generic text and create a link to which templates transclude it, and ensure that there is a suitable level of protection for that template. Should we also add some clear documentation to this template that explicitly states which templates are transcluded? — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably a good idea. I'll have to update the documentation anyway. Plain sister could also use a makeover. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  13:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The template has been updated. Docs for this and plain sister have been changed. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  13:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

modification
I needed a wrapper for my scripts, so I added a new div with the "headertemplate" id. The "headertemplate" id was already used for the table, and I boldly removed it, because it is apparently not used by any script. (only the class is used) If I was wrong and you need to revert me, please let me know, so that I’ll use another id. ThomasV (talk) 17:01, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Don't know if it matters -- the only way to keep from producing an error bang was to add id="headertemplate" to it. George Orwell III (talk) 17:06, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Suggested to modify to add subsection author
It has been suggested that the template Header should be modified to allow the addition of a parameter to show the contributor of a part of a work where the contributor of the relevant piece of text is not the author of the entire work. Examples of such cases are journal articles (eg. PSM), biographical dictionaries (eg. DNB) and works where an editor has undertaken an introduction to works of another author. To do this we would need to decide upon— The parameter would be optional. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  a parameter name, my personal preference would be contributor, though others may have alternate preferences, or we may be able to align two names to the parameter;
 * 2) the display location of the field, and it has been suggested that it be after the section name, possibly on a new line
 * 3) it would automatically wikilink to the Author pages (unless people can think of reasons not to); and there would be a need for an override function (no link required, or to allow for multiple authors)
 * Try this out for size: User:Inductiveload/Sandbox. You can see example usage at User:inductiveload/Sandbox2. It adds an "editor" field, and a "sec_author" field. I've made it so it uses the same "dirty-link" capturing as the author and translator fields, and it supports overrides for both. All new parameters are optional, no change is made if they are not used. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  18:48, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that a relevant test is something like a DNB article or a PSM article where we can look at set-out clarity and the header width versus depth, and to see whether it adds value to clarify sub-authors, or works where we have overarching editors and different authors. Also would like to see it where we have an introduction by a separate contributor than the author. One of the other considerations is how well will it work with the preload tools especially where they pre-populate fields from other pages in a work. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Take another look at User:inductiveload/Sandbox2. I've added a DNB-style entry, and some of the preceding entires are the kind you'd expect for a separate author of a preface or introduction. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  05:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I get translator name split for With author, editor and section author and With author and overridden editor, [17" monitor] so I am not sure that the long lines work or give clarity, though they do give a shallower header bar. I would also like to see how it would look with the sec_author being a new line under the section name, that is the presentation style for DNB00 and PSM. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:53, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The split line is caused by the central "title" cell (as opposed to "forelink" and "backlink" cells) of the header box not being long enough to take the full line. I've adjusted the template so that if there is no forelink and no backlink, the title cell takes up the whole width, to avoid a short, split line if there is lateral space. However, if a fore or backlink exist, the table space is constrained by the classes .gen_header_backlink and .gen_header_forelink which both have width: 20%;.
 * I've added a line break before the section author too.
 * If you want to change the parameter name from "sec_author" to something else, that's fine. However, I don't think "contributor" is ideal for situations where the editor just gathered up works and put them together, as it kind of implies that the author wrote the article for this use. This is just semantics, and I'm not very attached to "sec_author" other than the fact that it is the same length as "translator", so it will prevent a ragged line of equals signs in the template.Inductiveload— talk/contribs  12:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * This one With author, editor and section author needs fixing as we get a wrap on William/wrap/Wordsworth followed by single word lines. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:16, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Here is an example of a section author, and section translators, and an alteration The University Hymn Book/God reveals his presence. When we are keeping works as sub-parts of the compilation, works like this continue to highlight that we need to either amend header or to give fuller guidance on how to manage. My opinion on this rendition is that I would think that how we could make it happen is have section author as proposed, then we utilise the Notes display field in either a structured or instructive means. My preference is for optional structured parameters. Structured could be to have a leading controlled area within the (managed by an #if: statement) that enables us to put in supplementary subsection information, section_translator, section_illustrator and they are free text and can be wikilinked as required.
 * Right, let's get this discussion going again! I think free-text for all new parameters a good idea, as otherwise we end up with even more ways to do it wrong, and the template's dirty-link handling code is getting out of hand already. To be honest, I think that the author field should be free text, (we have 26,300+ works in Category:Pages with override author), but that is a discussion for another time. I propose adding the following, optional, fields: "editor", "illustrator", "translator". All fields (including "author" too) will have an optional section variant for when the subpage's data differs from the main work. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  19:06, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Wrapping "plain sister" components?
Is it worth wrapping the components of plain sister that are embedded in the header into #if statements so that they don't call the template unless necessary? — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:32, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Header/2010