text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/April

Russian Suffix for meat of an animal
Page giving lists of Russian food translations Мясо - Meat Говядина - beef Баранина - mutton Свинина - pork Телятина - veal Курица - chichen Ягнятина - lamb Крольчатина (кролик) - rabbit Ветчина - ham Бекон - bacon

Taken from a list of meats, I think most people can see, there is a common suffix in many of these words. -ина (Declined normally]

Говядо (obsolete word for bovine animals)--- Говядина (cow meat) Баран (a ram) --- Баранина (ram meat, or mutton) Кролик (rabbit) --- крольчатина (rabbit) This one show both an и being dropped, while keeping the л soft, as well as the typical к->ч change commonly seen in Russian.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ина, wiktionary doesn't seem to allow in-editor linking to its own pages, but that's the page url. Wiktionary currently has a page for -ина in use of Serbo-Croatian, whose use differs from Russian's slightly. On the other hand: пошлина (tax, duty)
 * Let me wish you a late welcome to Wiktionary. I would suggest registering an account and making a User page.
 * The suffix is cognate to the Serbo-Croatian one, you can read more at 🇨🇬. The reason why we don't have this entry yet is simply because no one got around to writing it. Crom daba (talk) 21:41, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Need to find a deletion discussion on numbers
Hi I'm try to find a recent discussion about deletion of numbers like 1000000 and others but I can't find it. I've tried googling for things and using the search box and picking numbers you might have talked about and see what links there. I've also asked for help at Requests_for_deletion they might have answered it there by the time you read this. Siuenti (talk) 23:06, 3 April 2017 (UTC) Thanks :) Siuenti (talk) 23:06, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * sorry this might not actually exist. Siuenti (talk) 00:45, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * It does--I checked myself but couldn't find it. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:06, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Talk:105. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:03, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:15, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Siuenti (talk) 11:53, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * What about Tamil numbers? Tamil numbers are not so easy to figure out. For instance, ௫௰௧ = 51. —Stephen (Talk) 10:17, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
 * In fact, here is a list of Tamil numbers and their English equivalents. See how most of them are written with only two or three Tamil numerals. Tamil_Numerals_4.jpg —Stephen (Talk) 11:01, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Do they follow a regular pattern or are they idiomatic/NSOP? Siuenti (talk) 09:40, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Most follow a pattern, but some are really strange. It's more like the Chinese/Japanese systems, and also Amharic numbers. Something like Roman numerals. Hebrew, Arabic and some other languages (I think Armenian, Georgian, etc.) also have old numbering systems that use letters of the alphabet for numerals, and numbers are made without the use of zeros. Tamil has single numerals for 10 ௰, 100 ௱, and 1000 ௲, but no zero. Thus, 10,000,000 is ௱௱௲ (like Roman numerals CCM, or hundred×hundred×thousand). For some reason that I don't know, Tamil also developed a lot of forms for fractions. Here are a few: Tamil_Numerals_1.jpg. —Stephen (Talk) 10:30, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * You might have an opinion on Requests_for_deletion. If !you vote let them know I "canvassed" you so they can discount it :) Siuenti (talk) 08:18, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Period after closing parenthesis
Are the two sentences below equally grammatically correct? Can we place the period after the closing parenthesis?

 * 1) I like cake (except chocolate cake).
 * 2) I like cake. (except chocolate cake)

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:45, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

 * In today's English I've only seen the first one. The only time I've come across the second one is in Lane's  (published 1863-1893), so I'd assume it used to be more common. However, if the parenthetical remark is a separate sentence, it's perfectly normal to write "I like cake. (Do you want some?)". --WikiTiki89 15:59, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

 * The second is wrong. You could write: "I like cake. (Except chocolate cake.)" That gives you a sentence fragment, but helps to convey that this is an afterthought. Equinox ◑ 17:33, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

 * In Early Modern English, punctuation rules were a lot less settled, but, by now, only the first sentence is correct. Wikitiki89 and Equinox are correct in what they write. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 20:39, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Altho I dislike it, this form is also fairly common: "I like cake (except chocolate cake.)" Not what you asked but worth mentioning. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:42, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * A sentence ought to be punctuated in such a way that if the contents of are removed what remains is grammatical.  In Koavf's example, there's no effective stop between "I like cake" and whatever sentence follows. —Tamfang (talk) 20:29, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

 * I have sometimes seen the second one being used (but mainly in informal writing on the Internet as well as some comments posted). The first one is the correct one because think about this — the brackets are supplementing what's been written before and therefore should be part of the sentence (which the full stop shall come after). — AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 04:59, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * On this topic, I really hate it when people quote “like this.” That is only seen in America (from my experience), but even so, in America, people do quote “like this”, which is the more easier way to read. The only time to put quotation marks after a full stop is when quoting text and the full stop is part of the quote. — AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 04:59, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * : Interesting. I've been writing "like this." in English, on the internet. I thought this was the norm in English, because it appeared to be so common, at least in my limited experience. Based on your comment, I guess I can change my ways and start doing as you said (placing the period after the closing quotation mark). (I would never write "deste jeito." in Portuguese. Nobody does that in Portuguese, again in my experience.) --Daniel Carrero (talk) 05:06, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I would say it is standard to place punctuation before the closing quotation except when you want to make it clear that it isn't part of the actual quotation (my personal preference is to only include what is in an actual quote within the quotation marks, if I am in fact quoting someone else). If you're not quoting someone (e.g., if you're using scare quotes), it would usually be considered incorrect to place punctuation outside the quotation marks. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 05:21, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Now I know that all I have to do to annoy Awesomemeeos is to write "like this." --WikiTiki89 14:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know that you have to change but yes, I think that this style: He said, "example text". is infinitely superior to this style: He said, "example text.". Same goes for parenthesis: "Put it down (now)!" rather than "Put it down (now!)" unless the thing inside the parenthesis has different ending punctuation than the sentence: "After college, he moved to a town in Wales named LLakkdyfdwsh (sp?)." —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:26, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Based on the conversation above, I get the idea of placing the punctuation before the quotation mark (even though this is not unanimous in this conversation), but is there any problem when you have punctuation marks both before and after the same closing quotation mark? What do you think about the sentence below? Note the period at the end.

 * She always says to me: "Don't forget your keys.", "Don't forget your wallet." and "Don't forget your cell phone.".

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 17:51, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't include the full stop in quoted speech in mid-sentence. He said "Don't do that" and ... Equinox ◑ 17:52, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * In school we were taught that if the quotation should end in a period, but is in the middle of a sentence, you replace the period with a comma (and also you don't put a colon when the sentence would make sense without it, but there needs to be a comma because full-sentence quotations that are not at the beginning of a sentence need to be preceded by a comma). So: She always says to me, "Don't forget your keys," "Don't forget your wallet," and "Don't forget your cell phone." But that's just what we learned in school, they also taught us not to end sentences with prepositions, and not to start sentences with "and", "but", and "or". --WikiTiki89 18:02, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I have always used the same form as the above comment, too. The difference would be (for me) if those in-line quotations have a question mark or an exclamation point appending them, such as: The way you speak is so abrasive. You are always shouting, "Take out the dishes!" and "Who left this in the hallway?". (In all honesty, whether or not I would include that last period may change from sentence to sentence and that realization is infuriating.) But: I love the way that The Clash would introduce their songs like, "Here's another one you'll hate," or "We spent less time writing this one than it takes to play it." —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:36, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I would omit that last period. --WikiTiki89 21:45, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * (Small off-topic rant: They never talk about that stuff in our English classes in Brazil! Our English lessons are really basic all the way to high school, including things like lists of common fruits and animals in English, and the present tense of "to be" is repeated a lot. Source for my statements: personal experience, and I have read my share of English textbooks published in Brazil.)
 * Thanks for the replies. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 08:43, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * If I were teaching English as a foreign language, I'd probably focus more on the names of fruits and animals and the present tense of "to be" rather than on niceties of punctuation, too. I don't remember ever being taught where to put periods and commas with respect to quotation marks in school in the U.S., either. I think I learned it by observation while reading books. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:03, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, I guess you're right. I've also taught a little English informally to friends and naturally I focused on basic things instead of niceties of punctuation. Here in Brazil, we do learn about niceties of punctuation in Portuguese classes at school. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 10:01, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * What’s worse is how we teach foreigners Portuguese. I’ve observed the first few lessons of a project to teach Portuguese to exchange students; the first lessons were the objective pronouns and the present indicative of ser and estar. They had the learn the conjugations for tu and vós (which, for those who don’t know, is as useful as learning thou art in your first English lesson), but no one mentioned a gente. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Capital letter after the ellipsis
Another grammar question: I believe only the #1 is correct, right? I mean, you don't write a capital letter after the ellipsis if you are still writing the same sentence.

 * 1) This... is... so... great!
 * 2) This... Is... So... Great!

Thanks in advance. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 04:42, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that it would be unusual to capitalize after an ellipsis when it didn't end a sentence. It seems equally weird to have spaces, though. So I would write "This...is...so...great!" Andrew Sheedy (talk) 07:38, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

 * This is non-standard English and so someone would only be doing this for over-emphasis anyway. It's just as correct to write, "This… is… SO… GREAT !!!!!111ONE" —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:40, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Yes, #2 is wrong. Equinox ◑ 22:30, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Personally, although not really correct, #2 looks cool because it can demonstrate the person's strong and powerful personality XD — AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 05:03, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I also prefer the spaces after the ellipsis for readability — AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 05:06, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

 * #2 looks like what someone would type with auto-capitalization turned on. This can lead to other kinds of unusual capitalization patterns when people are lazy, such as "I asked john. He said i could come." --WikiTiki89 15:05, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

What happens if...
... Wiktionarians become deceased. I know that this is a very sensitive topic to talk about, but how are people notified when Wiktionarians become deceased, especially if they have after several years of editing? Is there a way of notifying the community? Just curious — nothing major — AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 04:47, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * When Robert Ullmann died, a notice was put on his user page. He was also desysopped and (temporarily at least) blocked. There seems to be some disagreement as to whether dead users should be blocked. I'm in favor, because it means their accounts can't be hacked into, but others disagree. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:58, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * thanks, but what I'm saying in other words; how did the Wiktionary community know that Robert Ullmann passed away? (I think his AutoFormat bot was legendary!)— AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 12:01, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, that I don't know. It probably helped that he used his real name and that there were, I believe, Wiktionarians who knew him in real life. There may well be Wiktionarians who have died and the community isn't aware of it. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:04, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Fun fact: at some point in 2013 or 2014 I started believing that User:Metaknowledge had died. A person suddenly completely stopping editing is indistinguishable from them dying. — Ungoliant (falai) 12:21, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that... I'll do my best not to die again, or at least reincarnate faster next time. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 17:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * If I stop editing for more than a couple of weeks, please check for an obit in my local rag. SemperBlotto (talk) 13:12, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Sometimes I check my own edit history to see if I'm still alive. There were a few scares, but I keep coming back. --WikiTiki89 14:34, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree with the sentiment that it would be nice to have a way of notifying the community. I have no idea how to achieve this. -- John Cross (talk) 16:16, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * In some cases, there are a few Wiktionarians who know about it, but the information is almost never shared. As far as I know, User:Robert Ullmann is the only one who the community heard about. There used to be a well-liked editor named User talk:--Stranger, who fell ill in 2005. I suppose that he must have died, since he never posted after Nov. 2005. —Stephen (Talk) 02:56, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You forgot User:Eclecticology. --WikiTiki89 15:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

 * If you have a will, and a family, then just leave a note with your will listing the online communities you want them to notify. Equinox ◑ 23:58, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't need a family, just an executor. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:50, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Not to be confused with an executioner. --WikiTiki89 15:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If you have the latter, you still need the former. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:58, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Special:AbuseFilter/35
I wanted create talk Page of article create me by i, AND i can`t show, How to make CONSTRACTIVE edit !!!
 * You only have one edit here. What did you create? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * He tried to do this twice. - -sche (discuss) 16:21, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know if non-admins can see that. If not, it was basically unformatted text in poor English with no particular topic- not a dictionary entry. They started out trying to post something like it (with a claim that M.Kaprekar inventing the phonograph in 1942) as "M.Kaprekar`s Article !!.", then tried to put a bogus redirect at "Citations talk:Main Page", then did this edit at "Talk:M.Kaprekar`s Article !!.". The abuse filter looks for certain patterns of gibberish that shouldn't be in a entry, and nothing this IP has attempted should be allowed, so I don't see a problem with it. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:12, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Generic template like Template:rel-top, Template:der-top etc
Has anyone ever created a generic version of these templates, without the predefined text in the header? —CodeCat 18:36, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

UAL'd Deletion
Curious as to why SemperBlotto deleted the page with "totally wrong" as the reason? First time user. Please clarify Thank you
 * to make sure he sees this conversation. Also, you recreated UAL'd I think just to understand but this is the place you want to post your question. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:54, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Firstly, you said it was an idiom - it is clearly the past tense of a verb.
 * Secondly, you said it meant "# The act of being forcibly removed" - that would be a noun.
 * Thirdly, if it exists at all, it would be a protologism - we don't accept those.
 * Apart from that it was fine. SemperBlotto (talk) 18:22, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Accidental stealing
What would you call taking something home from a place of business without realizing it was not properly acquired? Someone did this with three library books, without checking them out despite thinking she had, and I told her she “may have accidentally stolen them.” Is there a better term I should have used?

(If there is a more appropriate place for reference questions like this, please move this there and let me know. Also please consider making that place more visible. Thank you.) —67.14.236.50 01:07, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

 * You are asking in the right place. See previous answers to the same question here: . I think "walk off with" is a good suggestion. Equinox ◑ 01:27, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link, but “walk off with” seems to me to imply having no consideration for the ethicality, rather than a simple oversight by someone with honest intentions. I haven’t seen or come up with anything that really seems to match the meaning of “accidental stealing/theft.” It describes what the act technically is, but without the intention. Am I mistaken? —67.14.236.50 02:16, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I would say "I accidentally walked off with..." --WikiTiki89 13:16, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, "steal" implies criminal intent, so "accidentally steal" is incongruous. "Walk off with" says nothing about intent, but is often used as an indirect way of saying "steal". "Accidentally walk off with", as Wikitiki89 suggests, is probably as good a way of saying what you wanted as any, though "accidentally take" would also work. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:26, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I’ll keep that in mind for if this ever happens again. At the time, I was trying to sound as non-accusatory as one can when using the word “stolen,” but I don’t think it quite worked out. —67.14.236.50 20:13, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Discussion of word
Discussion of word already a wiktionary entry the word has amercian indian etymology roots meaning "Whats wrong or the matter" Somebody other than I entered this word to wiktionary so they can add this correctly researched definition.

 * What entry are you talking about? —Stephen (Talk) 18:02, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Posted to usertalk to ask just now. —67.14.236.50 20:21, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Requesting gloss in etymology
When I use Wiktionary, I always appreciate it when etymologies with foreign words have at least one gloss explaining the meaning of some predecessor since it often helps me understand the word more precisely. I know I could use the hyperlinks to learn about the foreign words, but sometimes that leads to a chain of hyperlinks before I get to a definition. Is including glosses consistently a generally agreed upon practice, and is there a good way to mark an etymology for attention if there are no such glosses? Germyb (talk) 02:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably the most efficient way would be to ask at the Etymology scriptorium. In practice, if there's no gloss for a word in an etymology section, the most likely reason is that it has the same meaning as the word being discussed. It would be kind of tedious to read that fish comes from Middle English fish 'fish', from Old English fisc 'fish', from Proto-Germanic *fiskaz 'fish', from Proto-Indo-European *peysk- 'fish'; so people often omit the glosses when they seem obvious from context. Unfortunately, what's obvious to one person isn't always obvious to someone else. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:23, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I usually remove repetitive glosses like that when I see them. —CodeCat 16:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Well yes, if they all mean roughly the same thing, a single-word gloss on the final word would make that clear. And certainly for nouns referring to common things, I agree that it is reasonable to assume the meaning is the same if no glosses are specified. However, for more abstract words, I have learned that this is not a safe assumption on Wiktionary. Of course, I do understand that it feels redundant to do this since if everyone did things perfectly consistently it would be unambiguous. Regarding posting about the glosses that are clearly needed in the WT:Etymology scriptorium, should I make one section with a list that I keep updating every time I find a new issue, or should I create a new category each time? Germyb (talk) 23:29, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Most threads go stale after a week or so. If you find several in a short space of time, you can list them all together in a single discussion, but if you find new ones two weeks or a month later, it's probably more effective to start a new discussion. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:06, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Thanks! Germyb (talk) 21:59, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

one day, two days, three days... in Japanese
What are the rules to say "one day", "two days", "three days"... or any arbitrary number of days in Japanese? Do we use the same words/readings as in the days of the month?

(I already learned to say all the days of the month in Japanese: 一日, 二日, 三日, etc. read as ついたち, ふつか, みっか, etc.)

For example, if I want to say a phrase like "this project will take 9 days" in Japanese, will it have ここのか in it? (as opposed to another word or reading for "nine days")

Apparently, "one day" is 一日 but it's read as いちにち instead of ついたち, right? So I guess it's an exception? Apparently, "three days" is 三日 read as みっか, not *さんにち.--Daniel Carrero (talk) 16:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Wiktionary reaches 100,000 Chinese lemmas!
Wiktionary now has over 100,000 Chinese lemmas! Congratulations, and thanks everyone for their hard work! According to my estimates, this is more than any language on Wiktionary (except English, which has over 400k). Considering the importance of this global language with a history of over 3000 years, this is way overdue. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:48, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we divide this number by 2 since Category:Chinese lemmas counts both simplified and traditional forms? DTLHS (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! . Wyang (talk) 07:40, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Not all characters have a simplified form... —Julien D. (talk) 21:29, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Triples in English
I was just wondering whether anyone can think of any 'reduplicated triples' (such as, ) that we do not already have this category: Category:English_reduplicated_triplets

Thank you.

John Cross (talk) 16:22, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * practice, practice, practice is common... —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:40, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Added "well, well, well". Presumably a bot could search for these. Others I've encountered (perhaps not dictionary content): "go, go, go!" (commandos storming a base, etc.), "yeah yeah yeah" (dismissive), "hey hey hey!" (a cheery greeting?). Equinox ◑ 16:45, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * as a sarcastic expression of displeasure ? My boss uses it all the time, and I seem to have picked it up from him :) Leasnam (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

 * It's just "me, me, me" all the time (self-obsession), also perhaps with other pronouns: general syntactic pattern. Equinox ◑ 16:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I have added and . I will look at other suggestions later.  John Cross (talk) 17:43, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

 * ... that just got flagged for deletion... —Julien D. (talk) 21:28, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I found these (only tested for spaces, dashes and commas; no exclamation marks or other): —Julien D. (talk) 23:42, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * 2-2-2
 * 4-4-4
 * blah blah blah
 * bup bup bup
 * cha cha cha
 * cha-cha-cha
 * dot dot dot
 * double-double-double
 * dun dun dun
 * go, go, go
 * hamana-hamana-hamana
 * he he he
 * hee hee hee
 * ho, ho, ho
 * homina homina homina
 * hon hon hon
 * location, location, location
 * nom nom nom
 * oggy oggy oggy
 * practice, practice, practice
 * rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb
 * toi, toi, toi
 * well, well, well
 * yada yada yada
 * yadda yadda yadda

 * Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Greatly appreciated. All the ones you found now added to the category.John Cross (talk) 19:10, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/April


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/May

Name for the groups of sockets/switches that are protected by one circuit breaker?
In a typical home, you have a breaker panel/consumer unit with a bunch of breakers or fuses, and each of them protects a certain subset of all the electrical wiring in the house. Thus, one switch might disable only the kitchen, another the upstairs lighting, etc. What is the name of these subdivisions (not the switches themselves)? Is it "circuit"? In Dutch, they are called, and it has its own Wikipedia page Groep (elektrotechniek), but it has no counterparts in other languages. I can't add that sense unless I know what the English term is. —CodeCat 14:47, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's called a "circuit", but I feel that might be ambiguous. --WikiTiki89 18:35, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I would call it a circuit. There may be a better, more technical name but I couldn't find one in the Wikipedia articles on circuit breakers or domestic power supply. SemperBlotto (talk) 05:32, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

I wrote a definition now. Is this ok? —CodeCat 16:29, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Written variant a word that only occurs due to the preceding word
In Middle Dutch, you might encounter, but in a text I have also come across. In that latter phrase, the s of the preceding word has "bled" into the next one, but there's no reason to suspect that the two versions differed in pronunciation at all. It's just an orthographic difference. Going by our mission to cover all words in all languages, there should be an entry for, but I don't really know what to put in it. It's not an alternative spelling, is it? —CodeCat 21:23, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Would that be a rebracketing, like ME ekename/nekename? Equinox ◑ 21:25, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You could call it a misspelling, especially if it occurs only in that one text. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:31, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not really a rebracketing because the s is still present on . Would it be called a rebracketing if were written as  (not retorical, I'm curious)? As for misspelling, you can't really call it that either as there was no spelling standard back then. And while I'm not sure if this particular word occurs in only in this one instance, the phenomenon as a whole (that is, of a preceding s showing up also on the next word) does occur more often I believe. —CodeCat 21:51, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You could call it an s-mobile variant! Seriously, if you don't like misspelling of, I think alternative spelling of is your best bet. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:14, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I just went with misspelling. But it's also a legitimate contraction apparently so I added that too. —CodeCat 16:28, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Assuming the misspelling is chiefly found in the context described above, I've added . - -sche (discuss) 18:06, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Given names only occurring in works of fiction
While translating Middle Dutch, I've come across the two names and. Neither of these are names that were given to people, they were made up for the story. However, it is of course possible that these names were used for people later in reference to the characters that originally bore them, in the same way that we might now call someone a Voldemort for example. But given names, they never were. How should these be handled by Wiktionary? Our policy seems to disallow names from fiction, so that would mean they don't get an entry. But if they were allowed, what should their definition be? Do we have anything like for fictional characters? —CodeCat 19:35, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Wow, I checked a massive international database of birth records and indeed found no one with the name Isengrijn, despite how relatively often the character is mentioned in Google Books-digitized books; impressive that no-one has used the name.
 * Given how old the story is and how relatively often it has been mentioned (in both Dutch and English), one could ask if the name should be treated like the names of e.g. minor figures from Greek mythology or history, who I think we include.
 * Those are handled without, by just summarizing who the one person by that name was (like Pandarus). - -sche (discuss) 20:09, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've created, what do you think? —CodeCat 16:36, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The definition looks good, in line with how Pandarus, Procne, etc are handled. As a name of a specific figure, it'd be a proper noun though, wouldn't it? And I guess we follow the source manuscripts' lack of capitalization, or should we normalize the capitalization? - -sche (discuss) 18:04, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've entered all names as uncapitalised regular nouns for Middle Dutch so far. —CodeCat 18:08, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, let's get others' thoughts on that; I thought based on previous discussions of proper nouns that names were among the clearest examples of proper nouns. - -sche (discuss) 23:04, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, even if they're uncapitalized, I would think they should still be labelled proper nouns... Andrew Sheedy (talk) 05:08, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree with both of you. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:29, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Technical issue: no quotations and the like
It seems to me that all quotations have disappeared off Wiktionary as of today. They still appear in the edit field, and I can even see them by requesting my browser to show the source page, but they are invisible when browsing normally. I also noticed I cannot unfold declension tables, so there may be even more problems I have not yet discovered.

I tried different browsers on different computers, and the problem persists, so it appears to be at Wiktionary's end. Anybody knows what's going on? MuDavid (talk) 06:56, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a site-wide issue that's been reported in several fora. I don't know the cause or if a bug report has been filed. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:58, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's consolidate discussion in Grease pit/2017/May. - -sche (discuss) 08:01, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Philosophy against personal preferences
Does anybody know a word for someone who believes that having personal preferences is somehow mediocre or wrong, and instead focuses on learning about and enjoying the entire world around them? PseudoSkull (talk) 13:08, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The first thing that comes to mind is cosmopolitanism as a kind of counter to tribalism. Not sure if that quite fits the bill. Or being a citizen of the world. Some form of syncretism possibly? Maybe these are a start. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:30, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

 * antisubjective? Rather rare and technical, probably used to describe approaches rather than individuals. Equinox ◑ 12:55, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

technical issue: oversized arabic headwords
Hi, I had added some code to increase the size of arabic script in my special page (I am afraid I cannot find the original post). Yet, the headwords have started to be several times bigger than the rest of the script in the entries. I'd like them to be the exact size as the rest. --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:44, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Maybe it was this: User:Backinstadiums/common.css. —Stephen (Talk) 13:36, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Rollback rights
How do you get rollbacker rights here? Do you have to start a vote or whatnot like for admins? I can't find a clear policy page telling how this is done. PseudoSkull (talk) 03:47, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Hmm! But see Wiktionary_talk:Whitelist. Equinox ◑ 03:52, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

cs for ç in Old French?
In Middle Dutch, is attested referring to the French language. That this is a loan is obvious, but I'm curious about the digraph -cs-. Is this an early form of the letter ç that the word is now spelled with? What would its pronunciation have been at the time? —CodeCat 15:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * In Old French, ç was also spelled with the digraph cz, so maybe cs was just another less common variant. It was pronounced /ts/. --WikiTiki89 19:05, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * @User:CodeCat This would make an interesting entry. PseudoSkull (talk) 04:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Words with prefix a-
There are a few notes on alpha privatives, but nothing that I could see about words like ASLEEP, AWAKE, ASHAMED, AWARE, ABROAD and others, and also possibly across and along. Also I think the existing entries for the a suffix and the alpha privatives need work. Anyone up for that?

Help creating new entry
I'm new to wiktionary and came across a new Spanish word that isn't in wiktionary so I would like to add it but I'm not sure how to go about it. Can I just copy the definition from any other online dictionary? What kind of verification is needed that it is indeed correct? --Polyknot (talk) 23:26, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Excellent question. Unfortunately, you probably cannot just copy and paste a definition. Dictionaries are eligible for copyright and unless the holder of the copyright allows for copying, then we can't accept something copied and pasted. What is the term? Do you want to show me a link to it? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:52, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The word is pegote. A search for "pegote spanish" shows some links with the main meaning being a "sticky mess" which I believe can be used both literally and figuratively. --Polyknot (talk) 07:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Good, so you can add your own definition(s) in your own words. Since--as you pointed out--it can evidently refer to both a literal situation and a figurative one, then you will need a definition that includes both senses. (Or at least, it's better to have that--entries don't have to be perfect, as this is a wiki after all.) A lot of the entries on Wiktionary employ templates for linking, categorization, and adding structure. This is a big difference from Wikipedia or many of our other sister projects. I would recommend taking a look at the source of a few Spanish entries (e.g. árbol or pie) and see how they are formatted, then try to post your definition as an experiment. If you're uncomfortable putting it in the main namespace at "pegote", then you could put it at User:Polyknot/pegote as a start. Once you've done that, let me know by posting here and I can take a look. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help . I went ahead and created the page with the only definition I understand for now as well as the page for it's plural. I forgot about the namespace you mentioned though. What is a namespace? --Polyknot (talk) 13:17, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. A "namespace" is a way of segregating out different types of material in Wiktionary (and our sister wikis). Certain types of content form the main dictionary itself and there are other related namespaces that make up the main content of the site (such as the Appendix namespace or Thesaurus namespace). Others are for discussion or user pages. For instance, this page is under the Wiktionary namespace which designates that whatever content you see is supposed to be talking about this dictionary and how to improve it rather than the content of the dictionary. See above where the title of the page is "Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/May". You can also look at Wikipedia's guidelines on namespaces here for more guidance: w:en:WP:NAMESPACE. This entry looks like a fine start so far. If you plan on doing more work with Spanish entries, I can provide a little help there, too as I know some Spanish and have edited a little bit of Spanish here. A useful resource is the DRAE and we link to it using R:DRAE but in this case, they don't have a definition for "pegote". Let me know if you need anything else and bienvenido. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:57, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Appendix:Snowclones/take this X and shove it
What does this phrase mean? ‘Keep this lousy thing to yourself’? — (((Romanophile))) ♞ (contributions) 19:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "You have offered or given me something that I don't want. Instead of accepting it graciously, I want you to take it back and stick it inside of your anus." It shows disgust and is frequently used in the context of quitting a job that you hate: "take this job and shove it". (But it's not likely that many real human beings use this phrase when quitting a job--it's used in songs and films.) —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:22, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Nominalization
Is there a template to use for "Nominalization" in etymologies? Look at and .--Bigbossfarin (talk) 07:50, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Why fewer entries than WP?
Why is it that we have fewer mainspace pages than that place I dare not go back to; Wikipedia? Around 200,000 less pages to give a little insight. I understand we have less editors, but for one, it is so much easier and faster to create pages here, and for two, pages there tend to be significantly longer than here and tend to take up so much time and effort and space, and have a lot more individual content. For instance, compare the Wiktionary entry for homeowner association to. I will say, though, we are catching up with WP rather quickly it seems. There are so many more individual words (in all languages) than there are encyclopedic topics in just the English language I'm sure. PseudoSkull (talk) 02:51, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Dictionaries have no need for entries on many encyclopedic subjects. For example, see en:w:Athletics at the 1956 Summer Olympics – Men's 3000 metres steeplechase; nobody's going to create a dictionary entry for athletics at the 1956 Summer Olympics – Men's 3000 metres steeplechase, or athletics at the 1956 Summer Olympics, or athletics at the Summer Olympics.  Nyttend (talk) 03:39, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Because Wikipedia is far more popular and well-known. Plus, most of us are far more interested in reading an encyclopedia than a dictionary. Altho both are reference works, it is much less likely that anyone will spend time really digging into a dictionary than click from topic to topic to topic at an encyclopedia. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:48, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Because most titles of Wikipedia articles would be SOP here. There are more things in the world than there are words. Pretty simple logic. Not sure what you're complaining about. --WikiTiki89 17:36, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, Wikipedia has only one article on the, while we have probably over 100 entries on the same topic (, , , , , , just to name a few). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:04, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * But Wikipedia has many articles with "dog" in the title: see this search. --WikiTiki89 18:07, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

It's not really a contest. Dictionaries and encyclopedias have a more-or-less definable amount of entries they could have (e.g. w:en:User:Emijrp/All_Human_Knowledge). Projects like Wikidata and Wikisource are a little more difficult to put a number on unless you can really sharply define some parameters. Projects like Wikiversity or Wikinews are basically impossible to quantify by their nature. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:13, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * This page is telling me that Wikipedia and other Wikimedia sites (like Wiktionary) will likely be used to enhance self-expanding AI? PseudoSkull (talk) 03:34, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Singularities aside, the page is an attempt to measure out how big Wikipedia should be. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:46, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

dash
In the entry for dash, I'd like to change the Nigerian usage from "Nigeria" to "West Africa", since the same usage appears in Liberian English (see Some Terms from Liberian Speech, page C5), but I'm not sure whether it would be better to change the contents of lb to "Nigeria and Liberia", or "West Africa", or something else. I very rarely edit here, so I'm not sure where to look beyond the documentation for label, and that's not particularly helped me, unfortunately. Nyttend (talk) 03:37, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

 * If it's mainly used in Nigeria and Liberia, would be the way to go (with vertical lines setting off the "and" so that each country is parsed as a separate label); If it's used broadly across West Africa, then  would work. I have edited Module:labels/data/regional so that CAT:Nigerian English and CAT:Liberian English, or CAT:West African English, will be added when the label is used. - -sche (discuss) 06:19, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

regular expressions
Hi, I'd like to be led to the page about searching itself, so that I can see how to use regex. Is it possible with any kind of script, e.g. Arabic? how can it be implemented for chinese characters? --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:33, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * All documentation like that is at . —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:01, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * could you specify where? I cannot find it --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:14, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * All I can point to is the help documentation on searching. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:21, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * this one's better https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:CirrusSearch --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/May


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/June

Are these valid citations of Windows?
--2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE 23:05, 3 June 2017 (UTC) --2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE 06:41, 4 June 2017 (UTC) --2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE 07:09, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * : As a MAC girl, I lose sleep over why people use Windows.
 * : There's a reason people use Windows. It just werks.
 * : ... have either vandalized or enhanced (depending on who you are) an upcoming Apple Store with a Windows logo.
 * : Windows users are generally regarded as either thieves, people who lost their keys, or just complete morons too stupid to use doors.
 * : If Mac Users Care About The Environment More Than Windows Users?
 * Looks reasonably good to me. Not all of us agreed to the deletion of a word that obviously exists. SemperBlotto (talk) 05:54, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It seems Firefox (deleted previously) can also be cited:
 * : I use Firefox and MacOS, so I'm not afraid of viruses,
 * : But I've realized that many Meezers dont use Firefox
 * : You have to use Firefox and Yahoo for the rest of your life.
 * : And with the right accessories, they can do a spot-on Firefox impression.
 * : They also have a Firefox.
 * Also XP:
 * : For those XP users, ever wanted to muted certain applications like vista can??
 * : Avast! AntiVirus in XP VM under Fusion
 * : Check it out, I found something that does what CDA does and works with XP!
 * : you got to limit your game because people still use XP with slow processors
 * : although I can't use it because I still run XP.
 * Yes. Our mission statement is "all words in all languages". But not everybody agrees with it. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:27, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

 * WT:BRAND is community-agreed and can override what you quote. Equinox ◑ 11:34, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * How does this not meet WT:BRAND?--2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE 11:40, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

 * It may or may not. But Blotto frequently quotes the above and wilfully ignores the policies that can override it. Equinox ◑ 17:37, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I have posted at Requests for deletion for more input.--2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE 12:16, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

West (of) England vs West Country
Is "West England"/"West of England" synonymous with "West Country"? In particular, do they both include Cornwall? If "West England" doesn't include Cornwall, then perhaps it shouldn't be listed as a synonym of "West Country" in Module:labels. - -sche (discuss) 21:18, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Latin vowel length
hi guys! really appreciated the time and effort that you took for the latin entries, especially the use of macrons for vowel length! one thing though, is it possible to create a list of all of the latin words with macrons? because when I used Special:Export and added the category Latin lemmas, it does not have the macrons. any help will be appreciated, as it would make my experience with latin easier, especially when i have no internet. thank you all!

 * That's a bit like asking for all the Latin words that contain the letter r. —Tamfang (talk) 08:18, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I'm not certain, but I think you can find such information in the latest database dump (SQL dump, XML dump, or whatever it's called). You should ask -sche. I think he knows about it. —Stephen (Talk) 05:05, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Macrons are not used in entry names (page titles), only in the text in the entry. Latin headwords (the line of text at the top of the part-of-speech section) that contain macrons could be put in a category, using Module:headword. However, the macrons wouldn't display on the category page, and I don't know how to get a complete list of entry names, much less a complete list where the list entries have macrons. But perhaps a bot could do it. has made quite a few lists with his bot before. — Eru·tuon 05:21, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I would need a list of Latin headword templates and the parameters they could take. DTLHS (talk) 05:23, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It looks like all the templates use either 1 or head for the displayed headword. (Additional headwords will appear in 2 or head2, 3 or head3, etc. Those should probably be ignored if they are not equal to the headword when macrons are removed.) See the list of headword templates below. might be used too. — Eru·tuon 05:49, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Here you go: tab delimited, or json if you prefer. Here are the rules that I used:  DTLHS (talk) 18:11, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

bačičobi
What language has a word for 'right (turn)' that sounds like bačičobi? —Tamfang (talk) 16:59, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Term black people use for white people in films
In German dubs of Hollywood films, the go-to slang term for black characters to refer to white people, whether threatening or affectionate, is Weißbrot (wheat bread). I can't find what they say in the originals. My assumption would be 'cracker' but that seems more harsh than it comes across in the dubs. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 12:35, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * A few ideas: Wikisaurus:white person, as well as the synonyms in whitey --Barytonesis (talk) 12:42, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually it might be a direct calque from white bread. --Barytonesis (talk) 12:49, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I think honky is the term usually used in films and TV shows. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:01, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello. How can I get the entire list of words in a category?
For example, at the bottom of this page, it says there are 35,830 English verbs in total, but I can only see 200 of them at a time.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_verbs

How can I get the entire list of 35,830 verbs?

I am making a word list for learners of English and I'll credit Wiktionary in it. Thanks. Eopluo (talk) 10:17, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * You can use w:en:WP:AWB to generate lists from categories. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:22, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Wow. I'll try that. You're a lifesaver. I was seriously planning to download all the words manually. Eopluo (talk) 04:14, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. Let me know how else I can help. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:19, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * AWB has a painful upper limit of pages to fetch tho. AFAIK it is 200. Dixtosa (talk) 04:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It's 25,000. If the OP needs more, he will have to use some other tool or a database dump. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:10, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes I was wrong thank you for clarification.--Dixtosa (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

It isn't obvious how to add categories to an entry
I think I have looked in quite a few places in the Help section to see how to add a category to an entry, but there doesn't seem to be any instructions. I ended up doing the same thing I do in Wikipedia edits, i.e. putting something like [[Category:...]] at the very end (in this case [[Category:en:Animal foods]] at the end of the entry for swill), but I'm not sure how the general newcomer will know what to do, and especially little details like including "en:" for English (and perhaps I am wrong? Shouln't I be using some curly-bracket structure? Yet it seemed to work).

So I think some more documentation is needed somewhere, and maybe with some help about using categories... e.g. answer questions like:
 * where to put the categories, and
 * what categories are added automatically;
 * is "Animal foods" also for birdseed - some ways of thinking of "Animal" include birds, some don't... is there a place to look at what people think a category should be for?
 * Should something also be added to some Wikisaurus entry when something is added to a set? Is there a fast way to do both at once (there are a lot of gaps, e.g. "Animal foods" only has a handful of entries at the moment).
 * What if there are several words for exactly the same thing (e.g. alfalfa and lucerne) or even alternative ways of writing the same thing (e.g. with or without a hyphen or space)... should they all be listed for a given category (I presume not, but where do I find guidelines?)?

Thanks, Maitchy (talk) 02:13, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * 1. yes, I think most people would consider animals to be birds. 2. I wouldn't bother with Wikisaurus pages at all, the whole thing is not well thought out. 3. If there are different words for the same thing they can both be in the same category. Alternative spellings however (spaces / hyphens), just categorize the main form. DTLHS (talk) 02:22, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that sometimes this project can be a little confusing, especially in regards to categorization. E.g. many Portuguese lemmas are categorized by templates. It's probably preferable to add categories to the part of a definition that matches that language. I.e. If you have a category like put that code near the English definition, immediately before any horizontal lines which separate languages. Do you have any more specific questions? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

List of ideophones by language?
I noticed today that Wikipedia used to have a 'List of ideophones by Language', which was deleted in January 2017 - in part on the grounds that it had a list of words which would be better off here on Wiktionary. I agree with the sentiment, but can't find anything like this list on WT. Some of the words that were there have entries on here in various languages, but most of the handful that I checked seem not to.

I'm not very wiki-savvy, and almost entirely new to Wiktionary, so I don't know how/if one can access deleted WP pages. But, at least some version of the page is cloned on this terrible website. As far as I understand the spirit of the criteria for inclusion, most of those words ought to be included. Does anyone with more knowhow want to take this on?

I'm putting this here rather than in requests partly because it's not a request for a specific word-level entry, and partly because I'm a noobie.
 * You can ask the admin who deleted in on en.wp (or any other admin for that matter) for a copy of the file exported as XML and then it can be imported here. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:15, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

 * The List of ideophones by language was deleted by Timotheus Canens. He can easily access the deleted page if you want to save its contents. Note that entries in any given language must be in the proper script, so there will probably be a bit of work for you to convert these to the correct script and spelling. —Stephen (Talk) 07:08, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I'm an admin on en.wiki so I took the liberty of copying the contents of the page prior to its deletion to my userpage: User:BigDom/List of ideophones by language. BigDom 10:31, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Wiktionary and Wikipedia dump files understanding for parsing and indexing
Wiktionary and Wikipedia dump files detailed understanding for parsing and indexing as it is not clear about which dump file to download to parse and index. For Wiktionary I have downloaded enwiktionary-20170501-pages-articles.xml mentioned xml dump but its fetching only 23742 english words and that too its not containing basic words. So can you help me out with the complete dump thing so that i will be able to make a dictionary of almost 1 lakh words. Same thing with Wikipedia able to fetch only ~851000 articles which contains Infobox but i guess its too small for a Wikipedia thing downloaded file is enwiki-20170601-pages-articles.xml. So awaiting your reply Thanks Himanshu.k (talk) 16:05, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

 * pages-meta-current.xml and pages-articles.xml work well for parsing. Maybe your parser is crashing before it finishes reading the whole file. — Ungoliant (falai) 16:15, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Wiktionary and Wikipedia dump files understanding for parsing and indexing
Hello,

Himanshu.k (talk) 07:10, 28 June 2017 (UTC)I need a detailed explanation about Wikipedia and Wiktionary dumps.

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/June


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/July

Attestation
If there is a text written in some language and containing direct speech in another language, can this be used for attestation in that other language? For example several High German texts contain Low German direct speech. Sometimes it might be some kind of Missingsch, neither High nor Low German, but sometimes it might be correct Low German. -Ageaux (talk) 16:09, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Herr von Ribbeck auf Ribbeck im Havelland (Fontane) at wikisource
 * This might attest Low German Dirn = girl, lütt = little, dod = dead.
 * 1905, Wilhelm Jensen, Unter der Tarnkappe. Ein schleswig-holsteinischer Roman. In: Westermanns Illustrierte Deutsche Monatshefte. XCVIII. Band, Heft 588. September 1905, p. 767 (GB):
 * Sünd dat twee, de sick helpen wüllt, amo, amas, amamus to konjugeern? Dat latinsche Tidwort geiht se all jümmer an lichtesten in, to lehrn, uns' Herrgott gifft wul sülbn Ünnerricht dato.
 * This might attest Low German konjugeern = conjugate, Tidwort = verb, Ünnerricht = instruction, lesson.
 * 1883, F. W. Grimme, De Kumpelmentenmaker oder Hai mott wierfriggen. Lustspiel in sauerländischer Mundart, Münster:
 * Stage direction and some speeches are High German, but some characters could speak Low German.
 * It's complicated. On the one hand, Low German (which we treat as two languages: German Low German,language code nds-de, and Dutch Low Saxon, language code nds-nl) isn't what our Criteria for inclusion call a "Highly Documented Language" (HDL), so you only need a mention in a source that the community of editors in the language in question agree is reliable. On the other hand, this kind of source makes it very hard to be sure that you really have the right language. Characters in fiction tend to speak a stereotyped or even fake version of their supposed language which is often distorted for dramatic or comic purposes. Even if not deliberately tampered with, it may be the kind of phrases that "everybody knows those people say". For example, the interjection "Gott in Himmel" is rather well attested as something said in English texts by German characters- but I have my doubts about it being quite as well-attested in German texts... Chuck Entz (talk) 01:41, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Woah. This is eerily similar to the case of the Prakrit languages. A lot of Middle Indic drama used different languages to denote class in society, e.g. the poorest spoke Magadhi Prakrit, the powerful men spoke Maharashtri (I think) and the well off women spoke Shauraseni, while in religious texts Jains used Ardhamagadhi and Buddhists used Pali. There was a high enough degree of mutual intelligibility in these standardized dramatic dialects (as in they were artificially made to sound a certain way). As Chuck Entz said about "stereotyped ... or even fake" language, the usage of Low German in High German texts is probably to poke fun or give a character a certain identity in a drama. —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 21:51, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

passify
Used on page 94 of David Foster Wallace "Every love story is a ghost story." What does it mean?

 * "“Westward” also represented how seriously Wallace had come to take fiction, how much he believed that in the wrong hands it could demoralize and passify the unwary." Apparently passive + -fy = to make passive. Equinox ◑ 00:06, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

 * SemperBlotto has created it as a misspelling of "pacify". I don't think that's what it means in the above. Equinox ◑ 11:22, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

 * I've changed the definition and added some citations where the immediate context makes clear it means "make/become passive". - -sche (discuss) 18:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Appendix article
I wanted to create a page about Polish adverbs but my article was rejected. How can I add an article to Polish appendices?
 * What do you mean by rejected? DTLHS (talk) 16:41, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There appeared a communication that it would be harmful or something like that and some other communications. It was automatically rejected. On the whole, I couldn't add it. Mihxal (talk)
 * Aha! You tried to create a main-namespace page called "polish adverbs", with interwikis, and an edit filter blocked your edit because interwikis are unneeded in the main namespace. If you want to create an appendix, it should be in the appendix space and at the correct capitalization, say Appendix:Polish adverbs. Appendix:English adverbs and Appendix:Swedish adverbs are examples of existing appendices about adverbs. - -sche (discuss) 18:23, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have already added it. Mihxal (talk)
 * Very nice. I added or  to make the Polish text be properly linked and language-tagged. — Eru·tuon 19:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Accelerated
How can I enable this option in this article: https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Appendix:Polish_adverbs? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Conrad.Irwin/creation.js/documentation Mihxal (talk)
 * Go to Preferences (it's on the top of the page, next to the Talk link). Click the Gadgets tab. Scroll down to the Editing gadgets section. Click Add accelerated creation links for common inflections of some words. Click Save on the bottom. This will enable green links for available accelerations. Polish adverbs already have this feature. However, I don't think it will work for an Appendix. --Panda10 (talk) 21:13, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does not work. Is it possible to enable it in Appendix? Mihxal (talk)
 * The accelerated green links appear when you use the headword template in the actual entry page. Why would you want to use acceleration in an appendix? Just go to the actual entry page and click on the green links to create the comparative and superlative forms. --Panda10 (talk) 15:08, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * To allow adding entries for words which appear in Appendix. After all, I could do everything manually but I would like to do it semi-automatically. ~Mihxal (talk)
 * I'm sorry but I don't understand the problem. I just created the comparative form goręcej by going to the lemma entry gorąco and clicking on the green link then clicking save. --Panda10 (talk) 16:53, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Taishanese words with no written form
Hi all. What is the best practice for Taishanese (or other applicable varieties of Chinese, for that matter) words that have no written form? An example would be /lai²² sai²²/ "dirty".

Also, what is the best practice for adding these words into their respective Template:zh-dial tables? Chagneling (talk) 06:19, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

 * ( —suzukaze (t・c) 05:12, 20 July 2017 (UTC))

 * It's hard to say. Even though the sources we have do not provide a written form, there may be one out there. In these cases, I usually do not create any entry until further investigation (since it fails to meet WT:CFI anyway, unless we make an exception for dialectal terms). For zh-dial tables, I usually put them as a comment at the end of the line for any dialect. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:25, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Got it. Also, just to confirm:
 * * for the purposes of WT:CFI, do sources include dictionaries (whether physical or digital)?
 * * do I need to state sources on entries themselves, or are they already implied (e.g. Stephen Li for Taishanese)? It doesn't look like entries like 天早 list any directly. Chagneling (talk) 06:50, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * If a language has a limited written corpus, dictionaries can be counted towards attestation (WT:LDL). DTLHS (talk) 16:56, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

HSK Appendix
Hello! Currently on Wiktionary there is an appendix for HSK (Chinese proficiency test) vocabulary according to the old system: Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words. The new HSK was implemented in 2010 and has six levels (w:HSK). Does an appendix exist for the new system?

Thanks Zumley (talk) 18:35, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I reckon we should handle all of the HSK information automatically, perhaps via . Wyang (talk) 05:50, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Reduplication
See diff. Is "powwow" a reduplication? It was borrowed in its entirety from Massachusett pauwau, from PA *pawe·wa, i.e. no part was generated by duplication. (Compare the WT:ES discussion of todger dodger.) - -sche (discuss) 09:44, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * (Another user has undid the edit, which also seemed to me like the correct course of action. - -sche (discuss) 04:56, 31 July 2017 (UTC))

Pronouncing diphthongs ending in /ɪ/
I hope this is a decent place for this question. I'm from the Northwestern US where we all seem to pronounce the /ɪ/ in diphthongs as a tense vowel. For example, /bɔɪ/ has a definite "ee" sound at the end (not extremely tense, but distinct from /ɪ/ by itself). Is this simply a matter of dialect, or is it due to the way the tongue moves from /ɔ/ to /ɪ/ that gives it that sound? Both? Sorry for the noobishness of my question. I'm not a student, just a hobbyist. This may be beyond the scope of the Information desk, but I'm hoping someone will have some thoughts on the matter. It will help me to understand my IPA transcriptions as I go along. Thanks! BirdHopper (talk) 19:24, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, first, the English monophthong, in contrast to the offglide of the diphthongs , is not always (not in all dialects) the same as the official pronunciation of the symbol : it's not always near-close. (It also used to be near-close in Received Pronunciation, but no longer is. That pronunciation sounds decidedly old-fashioned to me.) It's definitely not near-close for me: I usually pronounce bit with a mid central vowel: . So English isn't always literally.
 * But the offglide of the diphthong may approximate a near-close vowel. To me, a fully close vowel sounds rather non-native. But I would rather it just be transcribed as  (or ), because it's not all that important which vowel the diphthong ends on: it's aiming for the high front position, more or less.
 * However, I think there's a tradition in which the "small capital" IPA letters are used for non-syllabic vowels. This is incorrect:  should be used instead.
 * I'm not sure where the use of in English phonemic transcription originated, but it irritates me and I'd love to replace them with . — Eru·tuon 19:49, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I much prefer sticking to the transcription system we've established here, as it's easy to read, it matches expectations, it's phonemically no less accurate (even if it doesn't perfectly match the phonetic realization in all accents), and it minimizes the need for multiple listings in multiple accents. It's bad enough that have to use RP /əʊ/ vs GenAm /oʊ/ for the vowel; I'd be very unhappy to see us introduce a wholly unnecessary distinction between RP /ɔɪ/ and GenAm /ɔi/ for the  vowel. I have no objection to using the nonsyllabicity marker for all accents (i.e. /ɔɪ̯/), but neither to I feel it's really necessary. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:41, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, the RP diphthongs should probably use as well. There isn't a difference in the offglides between RP and GA as far as I know. — Eru·tuon 21:29, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with Erutuon. I think it's confusing. I've almost (or maybe even have, when I didn't know better) added "alternate" pronunciations with a higher vowel since it is clearly not /ɪ/ to my ears. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 20:47, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the input, everyone. I always like to hear both sides of an argument. The use of something like /ɔi̯/ makes a lot of sense from my perspective, but I can see the value in sticking with what is well-established as well. BirdHopper (talk) 16:30, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Question about headings format
So, the layout policy states that Pronunciation should come after Etymology, yet you have entries like red where it is reversed in the English section. This strikes me as the better way to do it, because most of the pages I've seen just repeat the same pronunciation for every etymology. It clutters up the page. In fact you can see an example of what I'm talking about in the very same entry red. I am of the opinion Pronunciation should come before Etymology, unless there's a specific need otherwise. Or at least organize it in a fashion where the repetition isn't necessary. Pariah24 ┃ ☏ 03:12, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't think our users are very bothered about the order of sections. Some leeway should be allowed. SemperBlotto (talk) 05:08, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I always put pronunciation before etymology, because then it's in the same order whether there is one etymology or several. If the different etymologies have different pronunciations (which has been very rare in the entries I edit, compared to the opposite) then pronunciation is nested under etymology and with a higher header level. —CodeCat 10:41, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Contribute to the evolution of Wiktionnary
Hi everyone, I'm new at this website. I want to contribute with you, to Wiktionnary's evolution. I want to be an editor in this website too. So I count of you to help me. Thanks
 * We're happy to have you. First off, a tip: end your posts with ~ . —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:52, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Why can't Wonderfool vote?
I know he's banned, but is there even really written policy here about bans? If "Wonderfool is a special case", why can't he vote? Don't you think his votes are valuable too, or is there a reason his votes are not valuable by default? PseudoSkull (talk) 04:24, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

 * In practice: he has a very long, strong (like Andrex) habit of doing things to mess up the project (a.k.a. trolling), so it would be hard to trust the votes as sincere. If you want a "policy" reason, then it's because he has been repeatedly banned for "abusing multiple accounts": this means (i) all bets are off (it's one of Wikimedia's no-nos) and (ii) you could never be sure that there weren't two Wonderfools taking part in the same vote, and therefore having more sway than they should. Equinox ◑ 04:49, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Didn't he nominate himself as an admin once? —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 04:53, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

 * I don't want Wonderfool to go away, he is excellent, it is just crucially important that we don't give him official legitimacy. Or we could do, really, I'm easy. Equinox ◑ 04:56, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

 * If we give him any power, he will end up as admin again and delete the main page again. I think things are good as they are: he contributes, but has no power. --WikiTiki89 17:56, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

 * I would liken WFs current status to a prison work-release program: as long as he behaves and is constructive, we let him do what he wants- but we can withdraw that at any time, and we always keep an eye on him, just in case. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:44, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

 * WF has been a fixture here for over 12 years. Twelve years ago, he was still in university. I remember because he was under the impression at that time that university exams were a mirror of real life, and since a grade of 80 on a test (80% correct answers) was average, he thought that would also apply here. That's where we began to clash, because on Wiktionary we strive for 100% correct, and 80% is unacceptable. Human maturity continues, we now believe, until about the age of 30, so WF is not the same guy he was twelve years ago. He's our most famous member and one of our earliest, and he seems to like us. Human development of maturity is tied to our prefrontal cortex, which is the last part of the brain to develop and organize itself fully. The prefrontal cortex is the seat of the majority of our executive functions. These functions help us to assess risk, think ahead, evaluate ourselves, set goals, and regulate our emotions. I really think we should give WF a break. I'd hate to lose him. —Stephen (Talk) 05:52, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the love, guys. --WF on Holiday (talk) 22:40, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I vote forgive and forget. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 01:20, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * In case you're not aware, WF still does troll every once in a while (and gets blocked for it, and creates yet another new account), so don't think it's all in the past. --WikiTiki89 15:39, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, he was blocked in the past week for creating a series of requested entries with the text "a kind of pie". Equinox ◑ 20:04, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * For instance, should we allow someone who conducts orchestras in his sleep to vote? PseudoSkull (talk) 19:13, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/July


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/August

Unsourced commentary in definition of -ful
I'm new to Wiktionary's editing. I came across the page for -ful where this definition was given:

"1. Used to form adjectives from nouns. An adjective derived by this suffix implies a thorough and certain possession of the quality of that noun, not a metaphorical fullness with it by degree or quantity. One who is wakeful is fully awake, not frequently waking; what is changeful is uncertain, not transformed; what is harmful may do a single and a mild injury."

This distinction made by this commentary was not clear to me, so I checked established dictionaries for their definitions of -ful. They say things like:

 * "having the stated quality to a high degree, or causing it". Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary & Thesaurus
 * a. Full of: playful. b. Characterized by; resembling: masterful. c. Tending, given, or able to: useful. American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition.
 * https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/-ful
 * http://www.dictionary.com/browse/-ful

Given that such a commentary is not actually in accord with authoritative dictionaries, should such a commentary (inserted by a currently inactive user about 10 years ago) be left untouched, or removed, or marked as requiring a source? What's Wiktionary's policy for such cases? Thanks for any comments.

--Creamyhorror (talk) 13:15, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I have to agree, it seems unnecessarily convoluted and is difficult to understand. —Stephen (Talk) 21:32, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the opinion. I've taken the liberty to replace the commentary with a more succinct and general definition. I do wonder what the policy on such cases of debatable definitions should be. Creamyhorror (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

pored versus poured
most spellings I have seen recently use the term pored as in: he pored over the documents to find the information he needed. But if I remember correctly in the past the proper use was poured. Has the proper use actually changed or does this just reflect a lack of editing?
 * You don't remember correctly. Pore has always been correct, with pour only used because so many people are unfamiliar with pore and use the only spelling they know. Only time will tell if pour will completely replace pore for this meaning, but, in the meanwhile, purists will definitely fault you for using pour. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:50, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Non-human language
Are there any non-human languages included on Wiktionary? An example would be Gorilla Sign Language, or possibly some form of dolphin language, or something. But I don't think any animal languages would be attestable. PseudoSkull (talk) 02:52, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know why they would be un-attestable in principle: the findings on teaching non-human animals to use sign language are published. I think the problem is that with that example, there wouldn't be a community of signers. When it comes to whalesong or dolphin echoes, I simply don't think humans know what they mean. If there is some method of transcribing (e.g.) birdsong and writing it out then we could certainly include it in an appendix. The ISO code would be . —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:33, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Does "cat language" exist?
I feel like when cats meow in different pitches, that can be sort of idiolectal. If a cat meows in a certain way, it means "Please give me food.", a type of loud and angry-sounding meow means "I'll hurt you if you don't get away!" or "I'm going to hurt you!", certain meows tell you "I don't like that thing that's bothering me." (whatever it is, such as "Stop snuggling me so close!"), but I still feel like the exact sound depends on the cat and it isn't universal.

Why don't people consider certain tones of meows to be "linguistics"? Yes, their meows are a lot simpler than our speech, simply because cats are only focused on a few things while we humans are focused on a lot. Cats want to lay around, hunt moving objects, eat food, beg for food, drink water, beg for water, sleep, piss, shit, whine about something bothering them, sharpen their claws, defining and enforcing their territory, etc., while we humans... You know all the millions of things humans can and have done. Anyway, you get the idea. Why aren't cat meows considered a language? PseudoSkull (talk) 02:52, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Language DTLHS (talk) 03:09, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * "No matter how eloquently a dog may bark, he cannot tell you that his parents were poor, but honest." —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:32, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Template for deleting accent marks?
Hello, I want to ask if there is a template that would act the same as l-self but without creating a link, meaning that its input is a word with accent marks and output is the same word but without accent marks (i.e. the form that is displayed on the page title)?

Thank you. -Robotukas11 (talk) 22:23, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * should work. You can't use that directly in entries though, or else you have to subst it. —CodeCat 22:36, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
 * For instance, → Διονύσια. If there's a pressing need for it, a shorter template name could be created. But I haven't encountered any situations where it's needed. — Eru·tuon 23:08, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks, guys! Can I use it directly in templates for tables for declension, for example? -Robotukas11 (talk) 13:05, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Why do you need to? l-self already strips diacritics. Or did you mean you want it to display without diacritics, even when 1 is given with them? Also, note that CodeCat's solution above will not put the display in bold face the way l-self will. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:17, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Confirmation when adding pages to watchlist
I just discovered that I (annoyingly) have to click an "OK" button to confirm that I'm adding a page to my watchlist, whereas before it would just notify me via a popup, which I could easily ignore. Even more annoyingly, it now takes me to another page to tell me I've added it to my watchlist, without linking back to the entry, meaning I have to look up the page I was on again if I still want to edit/reference it. That's up to three page loads more than necessary. Is there a way to disable this feature or a place to complain about it? First world problems, I know, but surely this wasn't necessary? It's not like a page can't easily be removed from one's wtchlist if it was added by mistake.... Andrew Sheedy (talk) 05:09, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I experienced this on two pages, then added another page to my watchlist, without that problem. I went back to the page I had first added to my watchlist and removed it from my watchlist to see what would happen. It asked for confirmation, just like before. However, when I readded it, things were back to normal. Odd... Should I mention this in the Grease Pit, or is there something else going on here, like a buggy update? I noticed that the confirmation button for adding pages to my watchlist was in the exact same style as the recently enlarged "Publish changes" button. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 05:20, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It looks to me like the "new" behavior is the underlying default that's overlaid by a javascript function as the page is processed. In my experience it only happens when you click the icon before the page-load is far enough along. If I get the dialog, I backspace/back-arrow and wait a bit longer before clicking the icon. Chuck Entz (talk) 12:34, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The simple version of what Chuck Entz said is that this happens when JavaScript isn't working properly. --WikiTiki89 15:25, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Makes sense, thanks. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 18:22, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

No Wiktionary without cookies or local storage
Until a few days ago, I could use this site perfectly in Firefox's private browsing mode and with dom.storage turned off. Since yesterday, however, the Translation tables in entries like sedge (the English word "sedge"), for instance, and Declension tables in, say, Russian entries, do not have the "[show]" links, making them effectively unavailable to me unless I turn on the cookie and local storage options. While I have known this site to use them before (and seen both features mentioned in the site's policies), this has not been an issue until maybe yesterday. Were there any sudden change in the sites' policies or their enforcement that I have missed?
 * Well I have been working on javascript for past several days. Either I have missed something or it is a random js error that time after time occurs to all of us. Can you post the screen showing your browsers console? Dixtosa (talk) 15:03, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm the OP, but I had to create an account so I could upload the images. Here are the shots of the "sedge" entry and "voda" ("water" in Russian). I hope I this helps.
 * Fixed, but turning localstorage and cookies off is definitely not supported even by mediawiki's core scripts. P.S. pics helped thank you. Dixtosa (talk) 20:07, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Just checked and everything works fine again, thanks! As for the localstorage/cookies off thing, it's just my "default MO" for the net at large - i.e. when not in my email, wikis and somewhat safe sites in general, so it can be a bit of a hassle to toggle both features on while trying to translate stuff from "not so safe" sites on another tab. Anyway, glad to be of help and thanks again! X8r0 (talk) 22:11, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

E non è ancora finita!
E non è ancora finita! - We're not done yet! ??

"è finita!" is third-person singular (female) present participle of finire

Should "E non è ancora finita!" rather be "and she has not finished yet" or "E non è ancora finito!" would be "''And it's not over yet! '", I am asking. --Edward Steintain (talk) 19:36, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The subject of the phrase (which has been elided) is cosa:. This is feminine so finita is used instead of finito. SemperBlotto (talk) 05:36, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Consensus
Is 50/50% "no consensus to delete" in a deletion discussion? PseudoSkull (talk) 06:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, separate question, if there are literally no comments on one deletion discussion for months on end, would it just fail RFD? PseudoSkull (talk) 06:53, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Yes. Even 2/3 is, at best, borderline. 2) No. In rfd, the presumption is to keep unless there is consensus to delete, while in rfv, the presumption is that lack of response means no evidence that it should be kept, so it gets deleted. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:45, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * But an uncontested rfd means delete. —CodeCat 15:34, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, since the tacit advantage goes to the status quo. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:23, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Category:Magic links tracking categories
I have cleaned out most of these subcategories but some pages are protected. Will an admin please finish the job? Thanks. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:25, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

sweet sour
May please a admin correct the page https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sladkokysel%C3%A1?

sladkokyselá is the Nominative singular (!!) feminine form of sladkokyselý

Every time I try to modify the appearance I get an error ("harmful action") thanks
 * That's because there was no language header. I've added one, so you should be able to edit the entry now. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:08, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Did Kappa ever ACTUALLY vandalize Wiktionary?
From the talk page of User:Kappa~enwiktionary:

 * Also since you Nazis won't let me communicate I am going to switch to vandalism after all. Bye. Kappa 20:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Kappa, you're an admin, aren't you? Are you really going to throw away that power? You talk about how much of a mess wiktionary is in; well you can help do something about it. :) What do you say? Nwspel 20:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

RIP both of these users. They haven't edited in almost 10 years.

But back on topic. Did Kappa ever make socks to actually vandalize Wiktionary or was it just an empty threat? Apparently some admins still had respect for him even after his outbursts, but was there a particularly large vandalism spree around the time of Kappa's disappearance I wonder, which could be tied back to him?

(Apparently Wiktionary was so different back then, and I wasn't around to see it.) PseudoSkull (talk) 00:18, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * At first I thought you were trying to contest a block or something, but he's not blocked. So I don't get what the point of your question is. --WikiTiki89 17:23, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm just wondering if he might have vandalized pages with socks, out of curiosity. PseudoSkull (talk) 00:44, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Germanic wa-stems
Is there a category for so called "wa-stems" of Germanic languages?

Examples from Middle High German: Examples from Gothic: The proto-germanic origins are in Category:Proto-Germanic a-stem nouns and Category:Proto-Germanic a-stem adjectives but that's less specific. -80.133.106.147 18:01, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * masculine and neuter nouns:, & ,  (gen. klēwes),  (gen. kniewes, knies), , , , , , ,
 * maybe also:, , , ,
 * adjectives:, , , , ,
 * www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/lemmata/?inf=9, www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/lemmata/?inf=10

 * No, I don't think so. They are included in the a-stems. I think you could add this category if you want. —Stephen (Talk) 08:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the answer. A new thread regarding the creation of categories is at Beer parlour/2017/August. -80.133.104.168 13:34, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

signature move
Is there value to an entry on a signature move? I'm an en.WP editor and the article there is up for deletion. --Izno (talk) 22:15, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Seems fairly transparent: "signature dish", "signature dance", etc. DTLHS (talk) 02:11, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what transparent means. Does that imply it should be captured on signature? It does not appear to be. --Izno (talk) 15:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh never mind, it's of course being used as an adjective. Ok, looks good to me! --Izno (talk) 15:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

lithuanian accents
hello, is there anyone who will generate a list of entries that don't have accents in the lithuanian entries so that i can (PAINSTAKINGLY) add them? thx. 220.240.114.161 07:25, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know if I should be astonished that it took this long for you to realize that Lithuanian accents are way out of your league, or that you realized it at all. Of course, in typical fashion, you're missing the point: removing accents from the picture doesn't mean you'll get it right, it just means that you'll be making other kinds of mistakes. You don't speak Lithuanian, except in a very crude Google Translate kind of way. You seem to think that being able to fake it is the same as being fluent.
 * It's not like we don't have Lithuanians to add their own entries- they aren't very active at the moment, but that will probably change eventually. When it does, I don't want them to have to spend all their time cleaning up after you. Under your TatCoolBoy account you wreaked havoc on the Javanese entries by moving entries added by native speakers to spellings in an archaic script that the vast majority of present-day speakers have never used, and I don't doubt that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 * I'm really sorry that you have too much time on your hands, but spewing misinformation into a reference work isn't the way to solve that. It's only a matter of time before I can come up with an abuse filter to shut you down in spite of your IP hopping, so I would recommend finding something better to do with your time. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:10, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * hello i dont have any idea of what youre saying on section 2 i have a lithuanian dictionary at hand and that's how i edit entries, why are you associating me with somebody that i dont know. i may not be a native lithuanian speaker, but i do use a proper source - didysis lietuvių kalbos žodynas (academic dictionary of lithuanian) which ive purchased. you blatantly offended me 220.240.114.161 06:31, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/August


text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/2017/September

'hac' script
Administrators please change 'hac' script from lua to lua. Hawrami and Central Kurdish have same alphabet. The current script (lua) doesn't display the specific letters well. For example, produces  with disjointed ێ, unlike the desired form of شێر. Thanks.--Calak (talk) 13:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Done --Z 07:59, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

I would like to propose the following change to the css font stack MediaWiki:Common.css, following my suggestion from last month: css. (Code2000 is shit too.) —suzukaze (t・c) 08:08, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Interested to add words from Odia Language
I am interested in adding many Odia words to the English Wiktionary. I know how to use bot and I operate bot too. Do I have to request for bot access? If yes then I want to have bot access. Please give your feed back or support if you agree. Do I have to perform any other task before that? Please suggest. Currently I have the word formats like this.

--Jnanaranjan sahu (talk) 09:28, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * ଧନ୍ୟବାଦ୍. You will need to request bot access per the process at Bots. I would recommend that you take a look at a few of the entries that we already have in Odia first. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:43, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, you'll need to get permission in order to run a bot. Before you even ask, though, I would recommend working on entries without a bot for a while so we can see that you know how to do entries that meet Wiktionary standards (see, for instance our Entry layout page). Chuck Entz (talk) 22:20, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your insights. I will be soon analyzing and updating words with the proper layout.--Jnanaranjan sahu (talk) 05:31, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Category:Terms with historical senses by language vs. Category:Historical terms by language
What's the difference between these? And why does the latter mostly consist of empty categories -- should it be kept at all? — Kleio (t · c) 16:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It's part of an effort to split categories between things that apply to entire words, and things that merely apply to one sense of a word. We have a separate for term-wide labels. It never really got off the ground though. —Rua (mew) 16:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, TIL about, I suppose that distinction does make sense. Not sure how I feel about putting it in the headword line tho, some languages have quite some info in the headword line already and pasting the template there only adds to the clutter. — Kleio (t · c) 17:58, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm personally not a fan of putting lots of inflection on the headword line. English, Danish and Norwegian are big culprits. I'd rather put it in an inflection table unless it's literally just one form like in the case of the English plural. —Rua (mew) 18:19, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * So you mean that we should create a simple template to organize verb forms in those languages? Anti-Gamz Dust (There's Hillcrest!) 02:01, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Lombardic terms
Are the at Lombardic terms bizzo, furh, panch, pretil, skura, stapho (Category:Lombardic) really properly attested, and not reconstructed from Italian words or the like?

Some remarks: From the google books results I see, I get the impression that at least bredil/predil/pretil is reconstructed and that some people don't use * or a bit sloppy.
 * With google books some of these terms can be found in secondary literature without an asterisk as e.g. "logb. "bredil", "predil", "pretil" = sgabello", and with an asterisk as e.g. "*bredil/*predil/*pretil 'sgabello'", while sometimes it's a bit ambigious as e.g. "long *bredel/pretil 'Brett; Schemel'" or "Long. *bredil/predil/pretil 'sgabello'". (Does *A/B mean *A/B [reconstructed A, or (non-reconstructed, properly attested) B] or is it short for *A/*B [reconstructed A or reconstructed B = reconstructed: A or B]?)
 * Carl Meyer (Sprache und Sprachdenkmäler der Langobarden. Quellen, Grammatik, Glossar, Paderborn, 1877) doesn't have these terms. -84.161.43.111 08:08, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Since we consider Lombardic a dialect of Old High German, it should be sufficient for these spellings to be attested somewhere in OHG, although if they're not attested in Lombardic they shouldn't be tagged goh. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:34, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

What if the general OHG meaning is properly attested, and the lombardic meaning is (re)constructed from italian ? In other words, what if there is only OHG furh meaning 'furrow' and lombardic *furh meaning 'ravine, gorge'? If that's the case, then there shouldn't be the lombardic sense in, but there rather should be two entries OHG and lombardic - that is an OHG entry with label lombardic -. The alternative of having only with both senses but a label like "Lombardic, reconstruced" doesn't seem to be a good idea.
 * Indeed.
 * AWB has bizzo, furh and panch (under banc, and not which wiktionary has) but for now it doesn't have pretil, skura, stapho.
 * bizzo: I don't know if any of the references is lombardic, but I would have some doubts. Possibly the label "Lombardic" is too narrow or wrong and should be "also Lombardic" or removed.
 * furh: This doesn't seem to mention wiktionary's lombardic sense.
 * panch: The given references are these: "panch: nom. sg. Gl 3,631,20. 640,9. 659,26. 698,5". Die althochdeutschen Glossen, 3rd vol. from 1895 has it (it's volume which can be omitted, page, number). Sources of the glosses, although I doubt that it is much helpful: "Clm. 14689 f. 47a" (for p. 631 and 698), "Codex Florent. XVI, 5 f. 140b", "Codex Vindobonensis 804 f. 187b". Are the glosses lombardic? I'd rather assume it's general OHG. Thus there could be OHG, and lombardic (hence ). So again the label "Lombardic" might be to narrow or wrong and might be "also Lombardic" or removed.

 * BTW: As of WT:CFI and WT:About Old High German (not having any "list of materials [...]") the glosses can't attest anything for OHG as they're only mentionings and not usages (which is why Wiktionary talk:About Old High German was created).
 * -84.161.34.196 02:16, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The "list of materials" may not have been drawn up yet, but there is no doubt that OHG is an LDL and that words attested only in glosses are eligible for inclusion. We certainly have gloss-only entries for Old Irish, and plenty of Ancient Greek words that appear only in Hesychius's glossary. I don't think anyone here wants to exclude any attested term in an ancient language with a limited corpus. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:42, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Malaysian Sign Language
Hello. I'm actually not sure where to ask about it but nevermind. Well, I've been learning Malaysian Sign Language lately and would like to add Malaysian Sign Language entries here. I see that there's already ASL entries here. How do I add a sign language entry here? I don't really understand much how the ASL entries work. Can anyone that know sign language help me? --Malaysiaboy (talk) 14:46, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * What exactly is your doubt? In the technical sense, you add SL entries the same way you add oral language entries: you create the page and add the sections as required by WT:EL; the main difference is that you use ===Production=== instead of ===Pronunciation===.
 * By far the greatest issue is knowing how to spell individual sign language words, since they rarely have well-established writing systems. In the case of Brazilian Sign Language, which I know a little, the usual way to write words is using the Portuguese translation in upper case (subject to certain considerations); there is some use of, but not much. In this sense, it seems similar to the use of Kanji.
 * You just have to find out how textbooks and dictionaries spell Malaysian Sign Language words and cite them. — Ungoliant (falai) 15:04, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you should think very carefully about what technical resources such a language would need, and how entries would be searched for and presented to users. I never got the feeling our ASL entries were at all successful or user friendly, so these are unsolved problems. DTLHS (talk) 01:40, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Like how do I name the entry of the SL. For example, hello in ASL is this B@Sfhead-PalmForward B@FromSfhead-PalmForward. Just like what said I'm not sure if anyone refer Wiktionary to find ASL signs. For me, it's kinda hard to understand to read the ASL entries here. I will consider contributing it when I'm ready. Thanks anyway. --Malaysiaboy (talk) 08:04, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Joel
How do you pronounce that name in English? --2A02:2788:A4:F44:8183:7545:1215:7AAE 22:24, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

 * In IPA, something like /ˈdʒoʊəl/. You can hear an American pronunciation at the start of this video. — Kleio (t · c) 22:32, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd pronounce it in one syllable, /dʒoʊl/, to rhyme with bowl and coal and dole and foal and goal and hole and mole and pole and sole/soul and toll and vole. And I'd pronounce Noel (as a first name, e.g. Noel Coward) to rhyme with the same set. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:37, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you both. I've added the second pronunciation you suggested. --2A02:2788:A4:F44:6DA2:F960:CC8F:16D4 19:10, 1 October 2017 (UTC)