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Henry Schoolcraft

Henry Rowe Schoolcraft (March 28, 1793 – December 10, 1864) was an American geographer, geologist, and ethnologist, noted for his early studies of Native American cultures, as well as for his 1832 expedition to the source of the Mississippi River. He is also noted for his major six-volume study of Native Americans commissioned by Congress and published in the 1850s.

He served as United States Indian agent in Michigan for a period beginning in 1822. During this period, he named several newly organized counties, often creating neologisms that he claimed were derived from indigenous languages.

There he married Jane Johnston, daughter of a prominent Scotch-Irish fur trader and an Ojibwe mother, who was the high-ranking daughter of Waubojeeg, a war chief. Johnston lived with her family in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

Johnston was bilingual and educated, having grown up in a literate household. She taught Schoolcraft the Ojibwe language and much about her maternal culture. They had several children together, only two of whom survived past childhood. She is now recognized for her poetry and other writings as the first Native American literary writer in the United States.

Schoolcraft continued to study Native American tribes and publish works about them. In 1833, he was elected as a member of the American Philosophical Society.

By 1846, Jane had died. That year, Schoolcraft was commissioned by Congress for a major study, known as Indian Tribes of the United States. It was published in six volumes from 1851 to 1857, and illustrated by Seth Eastman, a career Army officer with extensive experience as an artist of indigenous peoples.

Schoolcraft married again in 1847, to Mary Howard, from a slaveholding family in South Carolina. In 1860, Howard published the bestselling novel The Black Gauntlet. It was part of the Anti-Tom literature that was written in Southern response to the bestselling Uncle Tom's Cabin by Northern abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe.

Early life and education
Schoolcraft was born in 1793 in Guilderland, Albany County, New York, the son of Lawrence Schoolcraft and Margaret-Anne Barbara (née Rowe) Schoolcraft. He entered Union College at age 15 and later attended Middlebury College. He was especially interested in geology and mineralogy.

His father was a glassmaker, and Schoolcraft initially studied and worked in the same industry. At age 24, he wrote his first paper on the topic, Vitreology (1817). After working in several glassworks in New York, Vermont, and New Hampshire, the young Schoolcraft left the family business at age 25 to explore the western frontier.

Exploration and geologic survey
From November 18 to February 1819, Schoolcraft and his companion Levi Pettibone made an expedition from Potosi, Missouri, to what is now Springfield. They traveled further down the White River into Arkansas, making a survey of the geography, geology, and mineralogy of the area. Schoolcraft published this study in A View of the Lead Mines of Missouri (1819). In this book, he correctly identified the potential for lead deposits in the region. Missouri eventually became the number one lead-producing state. (French colonists had earlier developed a lead mine outside St. Louis in the 18th century.) He also published Journal of a Tour into the Interior of Missouri and Arkansaw (1821), the first written account of a European-American exploration of the Ozark Mountains.

This expedition and his resulting publications brought Schoolcraft to the attention of John C. Calhoun, the Secretary of War, who considered him "a man of industry, ambition, and insatiable curiosity." Calhoun recommended Schoolcraft to the Michigan Territorial Governor, Lewis Cass, for a position on an expedition led by Cass to explore the wilderness region of Lake Superior and the lands west to the upper Mississippi River. Beginning in the spring of 1820, Schoolcraft served as a geologist on the Lewis Cass expedition. Beginning in Detroit, they traveled nearly 2000 mi along Lake Huron and Lake Superior, west to the Mississippi River, down the river to present-day Iowa, and then returning to Detroit after tracing the shores of Lake Michigan.

The expedition was intended to establish the source of the Mississippi River. It was also intended to settle the question of the yet undetermined boundary between the United States and British Canada. The expedition traveled as far upstream as Upper Red Cedar Lake in present-day Minnesota. Since low water precluded navigating farther upstream, the expedition designated the lake as the river's headwaters and renamed it in honor of Cass. (Schoolcraft noted, however, that locals informed the expedition that it was possible to navigate by canoe farther upstream earlier in the year when water levels were higher.) Schoolcraft's account of the expedition was published as A Narrative Journal of Travels Through the Northwestern Regions...to the Sources of the Mississippi River (1821).

In 1821, he was a member of another government expedition, which traveled through Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. In 1832, he led a second expedition to the headwaters of the Mississippi River. Arriving a month earlier than had the 1820 expedition, he was able to take advantage of higher water to navigate to Lake Itasca.

Marriages and family
Schoolcraft met his first wife Jane Johnston soon after being assigned in 1822 to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, as the first US Indian agent in the region. Two years before, the government had built Fort Brady and wanted to establish an official presence to forestall any renewed British threat following the War of 1812. The government tried to ensure against British agitation of the Ojibwa.

Jane was the eldest daughter of John Johnston, a prominent Scots-Irish fur trader, and his wife Ozhaguscodaywayquay (Susan Johnston), daughter of a leading Ojibwe chief, Waubojeeg, and his wife. Both of the Johnstons were of high status; they had eight children together, and their cultured, wealthy family was well known in the area.

Jane was also known as Bamewawagezhikaquay (Woman of the Sound the Stars Make Rushing Through the Sky). Her knowledge of the Ojibwe language and culture, which she shared with Schoolcraft, formed in part the source material for Longfellow's epic poem The Song of Hiawatha.

Jane and Henry had four children together: The Schoolcrafts sent Janee and John to a boarding school in Detroit for part of their education. Janee at 11 could handle the transition, but John at nine had a more difficult time and missed his parents.
 * William Henry (June 1824 – March 1827) died of croup at nearly three. Jane Schoolcraft wrote poems expressing her grief about his loss.
 * stillborn daughter (November 1825).
 * Jane Susan Ann (October 14, 1827 – November 25, 1892, Richmond, Virginia), called Janee.
 * John Johnston (October 2, 1829 – April 24, 1864), served in the Civil War but was wounded at the Battle of Gettysburg and disabled. He died at the age of 34 in Elmira, New York.

The Schoolcrafts had a literary marriage, producing a family magazine. They included their own poetry in letters to each other through the years. Jane suffered from frequent illnesses. She died in 1842, while visiting a sister in Canada, and was buried at St. John's Anglican Church, Ancaster, Ontario.

On January 12, 1847, after moving to Washington, DC, Schoolcraft married again, at age 53, to Mary Howard (died March 12, 1878). She was a southerner and slaveholder, from an elite planter family of the Beaufort district of South Carolina. Her support of slavery and opposition to mixed-race unions created strains in her relationship with the Schoolcraft children. They became alienated from both her and their father.

After Schoolcraft's hands became paralyzed in 1848 from a rheumatic condition, Mary devoted much of her attention to caring for him and helping him complete his massive study of Native Americans, which had been commissioned by Congress in 1846.

In 1860, she published the novel The Black Gauntlet: A Tale of Plantation Life in South Carolina (which she said her husband had encouraged). One of many pro-slavery books published in response to Harriet Beecher Stowe's bestselling Uncle Tom's Cabin, such defenses of slavery, published in the decade before the American Civil War, became known as the anti-Tom genre. Hers became a best-seller, although not on the scale of Stowe's.

Indian agent
Schoolcraft began his ethnological research in 1822 during his appointment as US Indian agent at Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. He had responsibility for tribes in what is now northern Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. From his wife Jane Johnston, Schoolcraft learned the Ojibwe language, as well as much of the lore of the tribe and its culture.

Schoolcraft created The Muzzeniegun, or Literary Voyager, a family magazine which he and Jane produced in the winter of 1826–1827 and circulated among friends ("muzzeniegun" coming from Ojibwe mazina'igan meaning "book"). It contained mostly his own writings, although he did include a few pieces from his wife and a few other locals. Although they produced only single issues, each was distributed widely to residents in Sault Ste. Marie, then to Schoolcraft's friends in Detroit, New York, and other eastern cities. Jane Johnston Schoolcraft used the pen names of "Rosa" and Leelinau as personae to write about different aspects of Indian culture.

Schoolcraft was elected to the legislature of the Michigan Territory, where he served from 1828 to 1832. In 1832, he traveled again to the upper reaches of the Mississippi to settle continuing troubles between the Ojibwe and Dakota (Sioux) nations. He worked to talk to as many Native American leaders as possible to maintain the peace. He was also provided with a surgeon and given instructions to begin vaccinating Native Americans against smallpox. He determined that smallpox had been unknown among the Ojibwe before the return in 1750 of a war party that had contact with Europeans on the East Coast. They had gone to Montreal to assist the French against the British in the French and Indian War (the North American front of the Seven Years' War).

During the voyage, Schoolcraft took the opportunity to explore the region, making the first accurate map of the Lake District around western Lake Superior. Following the lead of Ozawindib, an Ojibwe guide, Schoolcraft encountered the true headwaters of the Mississippi River, a lake that the natives called "Omushkos", meaning Elk Lake. which Schoolcraft renamed Lake Itasca, a name which he coined from the Latin words veritas meaning 'truth' and caput meaning 'head'. The nearby Schoolcraft River, the first major tributary of the Mississippi, was later named in his honor. United States newspapers widely covered this expedition. Schoolcraft followed up with a personal account of the discovery with his book, Narrative of an Expedition Through the Upper Mississippi River to Itasca Lake (1834).

After his territory for Indian Affairs was greatly increased in 1833, Schoolcraft and his wife Jane moved to Mackinac Island, the new headquarters of his administration. In 1836, he was instrumental in settling land disputes with the Ojibwe. He worked with them to accomplish the Treaty of Washington (1836), by which they ceded to the United States a vast territory of more than 13 million acres (53,000 km2), worth many millions of dollars. He believed that the Ojibwe would be better off learning to farm and giving up their wide hunting lands. The government agreed to pay subsidies and provide supplies while the Ojibwe made a transition to a new way of living, but its provision of the promised subsidies was often late and underfunded. The Ojibwe suffered as a result.

In 1838 pursuant to the terms of the treaty, Schoolcraft oversaw the construction of the Indian Dormitory on Mackinac Island. The building is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. It provided temporary housing to the Ojibwe who came to Mackinac Island to receive annuities during their transition to what was envisioned by the US government as a more settled way of life.

In 1839 Schoolcraft was appointed Superintendent of Indian Affairs in the Northern Department. He began a series of Native American studies later published as the Algic Researches (2 vols., 1839). These included his collection of Native American stories and legends, many of which his wife Jane Johnston Schoolcraft told him or translated for him from her culture.

While in Michigan, Schoolcraft became a member of the Board of Regents of the University of Michigan in its early years. In this position he helped establish the state university's financial organization.

Founding magazines
Schoolcraft founded and contributed to the first United States journal on public education, The Journal of Education. He also published The Souvenir of the Lakes, the first literary magazine in Michigan.

Naming places
Schoolcraft named many of Michigan's counties and locations within the former Michigan Territory. He named Leelanau County, Michigan after his wife's pen name of "Leelinau". For those counties established in 1840, he made elisions – the process of joining or merging morphemes that contained abstract ideas from multiple languages – to form unique place names he considered as never previously used in North America. In names such as Alcona, Algoma, Allegan, Alpena, Arenac, Iosco, Kalkaska, Leelanau, Lenawee, Oscoda, and Tuscola, for example, Schoolcraft combined words and syllables from Native American languages with words and syllables from Latin and Arabic. Lake Itasca, the source lake of the Mississippi River, is another example of his eliding Native American and Latin morphemes. In 1843 the unique names of six counties named in 1840 after Native Michigan chiefs were erased – Kautawaubet County, Kaykakee County, Keskkauko County, Meegisee County, Mikenauk County, and Tonedagana County. But none of the 1840 counties with unique Schoolcraft elisions were changed.

Later years
When the Whig Party came to power in 1841 with the election of William Henry Harrison, Schoolcraft lost his political position as Indian agent. He and Jane moved to New York. She died the next year during a visit with a sister in Canada, while Schoolcraft was traveling in Europe.

He continued to write about Native Americans. In 1846 Congress commissioned him to develop a comprehensive reference work on American Indian tribes. Schoolcraft traveled to England to request the services of George Catlin to illustrate his proposed work, as the latter was widely regarded as the premier illustrator of Indian life. Schoolcraft was deeply disappointed when Catlin refused. Schoolcraft later engaged the artist Seth Eastman, a career Army officer, as illustrator. An Army captain and later brigadier general, Eastman was renowned for his paintings of Native American peoples. He had two extended assignments at Fort Snelling in present-day Minnesota, the second time as commander of the fort, and had closely studied, drawn and painted the people of the Indian cultures of the Great Plains.

Schoolcraft worked for years on the history and survey of the Indian tribes of the United States. It was published in six volumes from 1851 to 1857 by J. B. Lippincott & Co. of Philadelphia. Critics praised its scholarship and valuable content by Schoolcraft, and the meticulous and knowledgeable illustrations by Eastman. Critics also noted the work's shortcomings, including a lack of index, and poor organization, which made the information almost inaccessible. Almost 100 years later, in 1954, the Bureau of American Ethnology of the Smithsonian Institution prepared and published an index to the volumes. (It was not until 1928 that the US government conducted another overall study of the conditions of American Indians; it was informally known as the Meriam Report, after the technical director of the team, Lewis Meriam.)

Schoolcraft died in Washington, D.C., on December 10, 1864. After his death, Schoolcraft's second wife Mary donated over 200 books from his library, which had been published in 35 different Native American languages, to the Boston Athenæum. Schoolcraft and Mary were each buried in the Congressional Cemetery in Washington, DC. His papers are archived in the Library of Congress.

Books

 * A view of the lead mines of Missouri : including some observations on the mineralogy, geology, geography, antiquities, soil, climate, population, and productions of Missouri and Arkansaw, and other sections of the western country : accompanied by three engravings. New York: Charles Wiley, 1819, 294 pages.
 * Journal of a tour into the interior of Missouri and Arkansaw : from Potosi, or Mine á Burton, in Missouri Territory, in a south-west direction, toward the Rocky Mountains: performed in the years 1818 and 1819. London: Sir Richard Phillips and Co, 1821, 102 pages.
 * Narrative Journal of travels Through the Northwestern Regions of the United States Extending from Detroit through the Great Chain of the American Lakes to the Sources of the Mississippi River in the year 1820. Albany: E. & E. Hosford, 1821, 419 pages; republished under the same title with an introductory essay by Mentor L. Williams, ed. East Lansing, Michigan: The Michigan State College Press, 195).
 * A memoir on the geological position of a fossil tree, discovered in the secondary rocks of the river Des Plaines. Read before the American Geological Society. Albany: E. and E. Horsford, 1822. 20 pages.
 * Travels in the central portions of the Mississippi valley: comprising observations on its mineral geography, internal resources, and aboriginal population. New York: Collins and Hannay, 1825, 459 pages.
 * Narrative of an expedition through the upper Mississippi to Itasca Lake, the actual source of this river; embracing an exploratory trip through the St. Croix and Burntwood (or Broule) Rivers, in 1832. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1834, 307 pages.
 * Algic Researches, a book of Indian allegories and legends (2 vols., 1839), 498 pages, including two introductory essays: "General considerations," 20 pages, and "Preliminary Observations on the Tales," 24 pages, and 46 tales in total.
 * Oneota, or Characteristics of the Red Race of America. New York and London: Wiley & Putnam, 1845. 512 pages;
 * The Red Race of America. New York: W.H. Graham, 1847. 416 pages, being a partial reprint of Oneota (1845), missing approx. 96 pages of the 1845 book, and substantially reorganized; reprinted in 1848 with a new title: The Indian in his wigwam, or, Characteristics of the red race of America: from original notes and manuscripts, New York: Dewitt and Davenport. 1848; reprinted in 1848 as The Indian in his wigwam, etc. New York: W.H. Graham. 1848; and again in 1848 with a different publisher: Buffalo, NY: Derby & Hewson.
 * Notes on the Iroquois, or, contributions to the Statistics, Aboriginal History, Antiquities and General Ethnology of Western New-York, New-York: Bartlett & Welford, Astor House. 1846. 285 pages. Reprinted, with substantial additions, Albany: Erastus H. Pease & Co. 1847. 498 pages.
 * The American Indians: their history, condition and prospects, from original notes and manuscripts. Buffalo: George H. Derby and Co., 1851, 495 pages, being a reprint of The Red Race of America (1847) and The Indian in his wigwam (1848), but with an additional 'Appendix' of 78 pages, containing 'Captivity Narratives' of Alexander Henry, Quintin Stockwell, Peter Williamson, Jonathan Carver, and Mrs. Scott); reprinted as The American Indians, etc. Rochester: Wanzer, Foot and Co., 1851; reprinted in 1853 as Western Scenes and Reminiscences: Together with Thrilling Legends and Traditions of the Red Men of the Forest. Auburn: Derby and Miller; Buffalo: Derby, Orton & Mulligan, 1853. 495 pages,including a new 3-page table of contents on pages iii-v.
 * Personal memoirs of a residence of thirty years with the Indian tribes on the American frontiers: with brief notices of passing events, facts, and opinions, A.D. 1812 to A.D. 1842. Philadelphia: Lippincott, Gramblo and Co.,1851. 703 pages.
 * Historical and Statistical Information respecting the History, Condition, and Prospects of the Indian Tribes of the United States, with illustrations by Capt. Seth Eastman, published by authority of congress, which appropriated nearly $30,000 a volume for the purpose (6 vols., 1851–7) He had collected material for two additional volumes, but the government suddenly suspended the publication of the work.
 * Scenes and Adventures in the Semi-Alpine Region of the Ozark Mountains of Missouri and Arkansas, a revised edition of his first book of travel (1853)
 * Summary Narrative of an Exploratory Expedition to the Sources of the Mississippi River in 1820, resumed and completed by the Discovery of its Origin in Itasca Lake in 1832 (1854)
 * The myth of Hiawatha, and other oral legends, mythologic and allegoric, of the North American Indians (Philadelphia: J.P. Lippincott & Co.; London: Trübner & Co.,1856), a partial reprint in a single volume of * Algic Researches (1839) with 42 tales (many of them new), without the original two introductory essays of Algic Researches, but with a new five-page preface dated at Washington, D.C., April 28, 1856; a new ten-page introduction; and a new 37-page appendix, "Wild Notes of the Pibbugwan", containing 28 poems. 343 pages.

Book Reviews written by Schoolcraft

 * Review of Beltrami's "Decouverts des sources du Mississippi et de la Riviere Sanglante ..." In: North American review, Vol. 27, No. 60 (July, 1828), pp. 89–115.
 * Review of "Proceedings and Fourteenth Annual Report of the Board of Managers of the Baptist General Convention, at their meeting held in New York, April, 1828" and "A Discourse on the Occassion [sic] of Forming the African Mission School Society, delivered in Christ Church in Hartford, Conn. on Sunday Evening, Aug. 10, 1828. By J.M. Wainwright, D.D." In: North American review, Vol. 28, No. 63 (April, 1829), pp. 354–368.
 * Review of Gallatin's "Synopsis of the Indian tribes within the United States . . ." by and in Archaeologia America: Transactions and Collections of the American Antiquarian Society, Vol. 2d, 1836. In: North American review, Vol. 45, No. 96 (July, 1837), pp. 34–59.
 * Review of "Antiquitates Americanae, sive Scriptores Septentrionales Rerum Ante-Columbianarum in America" [English: "The Ante-Columbian History of America"], in American Biblical Repository, 2d series, Vol. 1, No. 2 (April 1839), pp. 430–439.
 * Review of Catlin's Letters and Notes on the Manners, Customs, and Condition of the North American Indians and Bradford's American Antiquities and Researches into the Origin and History of the Red Race. In North American review, Vol. 54, No. 115 (April, 1842), pp. 283–299.
 * "Brant, Red Jacket, Uncas, Miontonimo. A notice of the biographies of the Late William L. Stone, prepared for the Democratic Review - 1843," reprinted in Oneota, 1845, pp. 352–363.

Articles

 * "A Discourse, delivered on the anniversary of the Historical Society of Michigan, June 4, 1830. Published by Request. By Henry R. Schoolcraft," (Detroit: Geo. L. Whitney, 1830); reprinted as "Discourse delivered before the Historical Society of Michigan. By Henry R. Schoolcraft. Some Remarks upon the origin and character of the North American Indians, &c." . IN Historical and scientific sketches of Michigan, comprising a series of discourses delivered before the Historical Society of Michigan, and Other Interesting Papers Relative to the Territory. (Detroit: Stephen Wells and George L. Whitney, 1834), pp. 51–109, including 18 pages of 18 footnotes, supplemental to the 1830 address reprinted in 1834.
 * "Influence of Ardent Spirits on the Conditions of Indians. An address read before the Chippewa County Temperance Society, at Sault Ste-Marie, May 8th, 1832," reprinted in Oneota, 1845, pp. 413–425.
 * "Education of the Indian Race." A paper originally written for the American Lyceum, 1834. Partially reprinted in Oneota, 1845, pp. 332–341.
 * “ Mythology, superstitions, and languages of the North American Indians." In: New York Literary and Theological Review, Vol. 2 (March 1835), pp. 96–121. Partially reprinted in Oneota, 1845, pp. 449–460.
 * Cyclopædia indianensis, of which only a single number was issued (1842).
 * "Fate of the red race in America." In: Democratic review, 1844. Reprinted in Onéota, 1845, pp. 487–510.
 * Report on Aboriginal Names and the Geographical Terminology of New York (1845).
 * Plan for Investigating American Ethnology (1846).
 * Notices of Antique Earthen Vessels from Florida (1847).
 * Address on Early American History (New York, 1847).
 * Outlines of the Life and Character of Gen. Lewis Cass (Albany, 1848).
 * Bibliographical Catalogue of Books, Translations of the Scriptures, and other Publications in the Indian Tongues of the United States (Washington, 1849).

Poetry

 * "Transallegania, or the Groans of Missouri," a poem (1820)
 * "The Rise of the West, or a Prospect of the Mississippi Valley," a poem (Detroit, 1827)
 * "Indian Melodies," a poem (1830)
 * "The Man of Bronze or, Portraitures of Indian Character," delivered before the Algic Society at its annual meeting in 1834.
 * Iosco, or the Vale of Norma (Detroit, 1834)
 * "Helderbergia, or the Apotheosis of the Heroes of the Anti-Rent War," an anonymous poem (Albany, 1835)
 * "Alhalla, or the Land of Talladega," a poem published under the pen-name "Henry Rowe Colcraft" (1843)

Memberships
Elected a member of the American Antiquarian Society in 1821.

Legacy and honors
Numerous counties, towns, lakes, streams, roads and other geographic features are named in his honor, including:
 * Schoolcraft County in Michigan.
 * Schoolcraft Township in Houghton County, Michigan.
 * Schoolcraft Township in Kalamazoo County, Michigan.
 * Schoolcraft Township in Hubbard County, Minnesota.
 * The Village of Schoolcraft in Kalamazoo County, Michigan.
 * Schoolcraft River and Schoolcraft Lake in Minnesota.
 * Schoolcraft Island in Lake Itasca, Minnesota.
 * U.S. Route 65 in the vicinity of Springfield, Missouri is named the Schoolcraft Freeway.
 * Schoolcraft Roads are located in Marquette and Wayne Counties, Michigan, and in Dakota County, Minnesota.
 * Schoolcraft College in Livonia, Michigan is named in his honor.
 * Henry R. Schoolcraft Elementary School in Waterford, Michigan is named in his honor.
 * Henry's Food Court on the Schoolcraft College campus in Livonia, Michigan is founded in his name.
 * Schoolcraft State Park in Minnesota was established to commemorate his expeditions in 1820 and 1832.
 * The Liberty ship SS Henry R. Schoolcraft was launched in 1943.

title: Henry Schoolcraft


text: Talk:October 1

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title: Talk:October 1


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Bill McCollum

Ira William McCollum Jr. (born July 12, 1944) is an American lawyer and Republican Party politician. He was a member of the United States House of Representatives from 1981 to 2001, representing Florida's 5th congressional district, which was later redistricted to the 8th congressional district in 1993. As a member of the House, McCollum rose to become Vice Chairman of the House Republican Conference, the fifth-highest ranking position in the House Republican leadership. He voted to impeach President Bill Clinton and subsequently took a leadership role in managing Clinton's trial in the Senate, which ended in acquittal.

McCollum was the Republican nominee for the United States Senate in 2000, hoping to replace the retiring Republican Connie Mack III, losing to Democratic nominee Bill Nelson. McCollum ran for the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate again in 2004 but lost to Mel Martínez. In 2006 he was elected Florida Attorney General and in 2010 he was an unsuccessful candidate for the Republican nomination for Governor of Florida, losing to businessman Rick Scott.

Early life
Born and raised in Brooksville, Florida, McCollum graduated from Hernando High School and earned his bachelor's degree and J.D. degree from the University of Florida. While at the University of Florida, he was inducted into the University of Florida Hall of Fame, the most prestigious honor a student leader could receive, was a member of The Board, and served as president of Florida Blue Key.

McCollum's professional career began in 1969 with the United States Navy's Judge Advocate General Corps where he served on active duty until 1972. McCollum was an officer for more than 23 years before retiring from the United States Naval Reserve as a Commander (O-5) in the JAG Corps in 1992. In 1973, he entered private practice in Orlando and became involved in local politics, serving as Chairman of the Seminole County Republican Party from 1976 to 1980.

Congressional career
In 1980 McCollum was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives from a district including Walt Disney World and most of Orlando. He defeated incumbent Representative Richard Kelly in the Republican primary.

While in Congress, McCollum founded the House Republican Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, chairing it for six years. He also served three terms on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, two of which as chairman of its Subcommittee on Human Intelligence, Analysis, and Counterintelligence. Additionally, McCollum served as vice chairman of the House Banking Committee and served on the Judiciary Committee, where he was chairman of the Subcommittee on Crime.

While serving the House, McCollum was also selected for a variety of Republican leadership positions, including three terms as vice chairman of the House Republican Conference. McCollum gained national attention as one of 15 members selected to serve on the House Committee to Investigate the Iran-Contra Affair, and, in 1998–1999, as one of the House managers (prosecutors) in the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton.

U.S. Senate elections
Rather than seek reelection to the House in 2000, McCollum ran unsuccessfully for an open United States Senate seat, bringing to an end his 20-year Congressional career.

McCollum ran again in 2004, seeking the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by retiring Senator Bob Graham. He was defeated in the Republican primary by HUD Secretary Mel Martinez, who went on to win the seat.

McCollum served as a partner with the Baker & Hostetler LLP law firm, practicing in the federal policy area. In addition to his duties as the state's chief legal officer, he serves as president and chairman of the Healthy Florida Foundation, chartered in 2002 to find consensus on long-term solutions to the nation's health care system. He is a member of the North Florida Committee on Foreign Relations. He is also a board member of the James Madison Institute.

Florida Attorney General
In 2006, McCollum ran for Florida Attorney General, defeating State Senator Skip Campbell in the general election.

McCollum led a group of Attorneys General in filing a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of Obamacare. He also filed a brief in support of Arizona's immigration law.

McCollum opposed the federal Stimulus bill, as well as the $20 billion federal oil fund that limited his office's ability to pursue claims against BP, and requested additional authority from the federal government to address Medicaid fraud.

While Attorney General, McCollum defended Florida's ban on adoptions by homosexuals from a lawsuit, In re: Gill, that challenged the ban. McCollum hired Dr. George Rekers, a controversial clinical psychologist, to testify during the trial that heterosexual parents provide a better environment for children. The trial resulted in the overturning of the ban. When an appellate court upheld the lower court ruling, McCollum declined to appeal the case to the Supreme Court.

McCollum was also the Florida Chairman for the Rudy Giuliani presidential campaign in 2008.

2010 gubernatorial candidacy
On May 18, 2009, McCollum announced his candidacy for Governor of Florida. The election determined the successor of Charlie Crist who later lost his bid for a seat in the U.S. Senate.

McCollum opposed federal health care mandates in Florida, decrying them as an unconstitutional "tax on living," and joined with 13 other state attorneys general in filing a federal lawsuit. The majority of Florida voters opposed such a lawsuit according to polling in April 2010. He has advocated a state constitutional amendment that would opt Florida out of Washington mandates on health care, although questions about whether such an amendment would be constitutional have been raised. On September 8, 2009 McCollum said he supported Medicare and Medicaid programs but opposed a government-run 'public option' for health insurance.

In the Republican primary, McCollum faced businessman Rick Scott, who had never before held elective office. McCollum criticized Scott's tenure as CEO of healthcare company Columbia/HCA, during which the company became entangled in a federal Medicare fraud investigation. Scott countered that the FBI had never targeted him personally. The Miami Herald noted that a 1998 congressional bill sponsored by McCollum would have made it more difficult to prosecute Medicare fraud cases, a fact that undermined McCollum’s criticisms of Scott.

Scott defeated McCollum in the August primary with approximately 46.4% percent of the vote to McCollum's 43.4%

Private sector
In 2014, McCollum was named to the board of directors of AML Superconductivity & Magnetics, a privately held company that develops magnet-based and superconducting applications, located in Melbourne, Florida.

Personal life
McCollum is married to Ingrid Seebohm McCollum. They have three sons: Douglas, Justin, and Andrew.

title: Bill McCollum


text:
Talk:October 5

Vanity entry?
Who is 'Paige "Pirate" Davis, skater, sexy'? No article on Wikipedia (not even a stub) and nothing on Google. Laura Kahili does show up on Google, but is arguably not significant enough for Wikipedia. Pseudomonas 14:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Most Common Birthday in the US
According to the Birthday article, October 5 is the most common birthday in the United States. Might this be worth mentioning in the October 5 article? If so, where? Brent 15:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I suggest putting death date immediately after name
In Wikipedia 'On this day' pages, in the birthdays section, the death date is always put at the end of the entry line, but at times this can cause confusion. In cases such as "1717 Marie-Anne de Mailly-Nesle duchess de ChâteaurouxFrench mistress of King Louis XV of France (d. 1744)" it looks like Louis died in 1744, not Marie-Anne. To obviate this ambiguity, I suggest that in all entries the death year appear immediately after the person's name, eg "1717 Marie-Anne de Mailly-Nesle duchess de Châteauroux (d. 1744), French mistress of King Louis XV of France". It's simply a matter of correct grammar. Alpheus 03:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The project page would probably be the best place to ask about the overall formatting of these pages. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs)  04:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Dali Lama
According to other sites, including the one for the History Channel, the Dali Lama recieved the Nobel Peace Prize on October 5th 1989, why hasn't anyone added this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.80.186.150 (talk) 05:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Halloween?
Can anyone tell me why this article lists October 5th as Halloween? Is it the original date? Halloween's entry doesn't mention anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.178.17.124 (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why that was in there, and don't think Oct. 5th has anything to do with its history. And if it does, then an unexplained, unsourced "Halloween" certainly isn't going to cut it. So...removed. Cosmic Latte (talk) 15:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Mercedes Sosa
Mercedes Sosa's death was added to both October 4th and October 5th pages. Since her Wikipedia page states her death was on the 4th, I have deleted her entry on the 5th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.157.95.228 (talk) 18:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2019
Please remove the Deaths entry for Toni Morrison because the death date is August 5 as written in the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison Bogdanconnatix (talk) 12:04, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks! ‑‑ El Hef  ( Meep? ) 13:21, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Event on wrong day
The entry for 1948 re: the Ashgabat earthquake actually occurred on 6 October. TravelinTexan (talk) 00:04, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks! ‑‑ Deb (talk) 14:36, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 5


text:
Talk:October 6

Untitled
on october the 6th, the theatre of Moulin Rouge was founded. I think you should add this. nothing to add... its good —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.235.48.169 (talk) 11:25, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Oct 6th is also the birthday of Bhanu Pratap Singh shulwar.. 😂 Bhanu Pratap Singh Shulwar (talk) 06:36, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Mustache
According to the Mustache Growers of America, October 6 is International Mustache Day. Lots42 (talk) 18:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Please add
1990 - Jordan Hamilton, American basketball player

--2604:2000:E010:1100:C577:DCBB:5000:99A5 (talk) 09:01, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2021
May I ask the editors to mention the 13 martyrs of Arad in the article?

best regards

The Thirteen Martyrs of Arad (Hungarian: aradi vértanúk) were the thirteen Hungarian rebel generals who were executed by the Austrian Empire on 6 October 1849 in the city of Arad

Source is : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13_Martyrs_of_Arad Sayuto san (talk) 17:52, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Interesting Geek (talk) 18:36, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 6


text:
Talk:October 7

--mav 00:28, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"former"?
What does "former" mean after "Justina of Padua" in Holidays and Observances? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 12:08, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

articles which lack notability and seem to have been created just to be added to this list
the deaths linked to 2023 seem to be pages made in violation of the blp. 814jjs (talk) 14:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

 * @814jjs - you would need to delete/propose for deletion these articles. Once done, then they can be removed from this article. Kiwipete (talk) 18:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * complicatingly, each of those pages also has extended protection, which seems like an abuse of the policy. 814jjs (talk) 19:59, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 7


text:
Talk:October 8

--mav 00:28, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Anachronistic "Turkey" reference
The phrase, "1912 – First Balkan War begins: Montenegro declares war against Turkey" doesn't make sense because Turkey wasn't established until 1922 (de jure) or 1923 (de facto) or at the very earliest 1919 (start of post-Armistice fighting). At the time the political entity was still known as the Ottoman Empire. I will change the phrase to reflect this, unless someone can find specific wording in Montenegro's declaration of war that uses "Turkey" or "Turks." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.188.8.27 (talk) 06:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Angamos
I think the Battle of Angamos in 1879 during the War of the Pacific should be included in the dates shown on the Main Page. In Peru, the 8th of October is Navy day because of this battle (and to a lesser extent because it is the day the Navy was founded), where Admiral Miguel Grau died. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.207.96 (talk) 00:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

yum kippur war date fact is misleading
it highlights a rare defeat during the yum kippur war. the war is considered to be a modest victory over the arab nations. i dont understand why the date references a defeat when it should include a defeat over the arab countries. wikipedia bias much?

am i right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.4.187.138 (talk) 18:43, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

holidays and observances Che Guevera
The linked-to articles do not justify this date. I won't argue here about the whimsical nature of this, but why Oct 8 instead of Oct 9? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 11:12, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * you're right, I'll take it out unless there is a good reason to keep it in. --142.163.194.161 (talk) 10:38, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanksgiving (Canada)
Thanksgiving in Canada is the second Monday of October, so it should be mentioned here like Columbus Day in the USA. --142.163.194.161 (talk) 10:41, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

correct date?
the Wikipedia page says cats premiered on October 7; why is it listed on October 8? Mlcred (talk) 22:33, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Dmitry Polyansky
He wasn't the first deputy. He was the 15th. Aminabzz (talk) 16:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

 * He was the 15th First Deputy Premier of the Soviet Union. The entry is correct. Kiwipete (talk) 03:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 8


text:
Talk:October 9

Gabriele Falloppio, inventor of the condom?
An anonymous editor, has repeatedly added the "Inventor of the condom" tagline to the above entry (death, 1562). Condoms have been in use for thousands of years in some form, so claiming that Falloppio invented them is incorrect. I've reverted the IP twice, and I'd like an outside opinion. -- Flyguy649 talk contribs 15:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Cupcakes for Life, Should be added!
It is a new national holiday started by the pro-life movement. This is a link to the main web page http://www.cupcakesforlife.org/. It is a Holiday so it should be added. I did include a link to the site so I am not making it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.95.51.135 (talk) 16:42, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There are no reliable sources documenting that this event is notable, and Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Favonian (talk) 17:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't have a Wikipedia article, so shouldn't be listed on a day of year article. UK John UK (talk) 15:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

What are the guidlines for Births?
I added myself and it was removed, can you please post a births guideline like the one posted for anniversaries? Because I did not think there would be a restriction since I could not find one. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.203.233.75 (talk) 17:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

1825 – Restauration
1825 – Restauration coming from Stavanger, Norway, arrived in New York Harbor, the start of the first organized immigration from Norway to the United States. Read the article there are sources there............where are the sources for EVERY OTHER event on this page or any other day's page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.82.105 (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2018 (UTC) you want sources read them here Restauration (ship) and start removing the other events that are not sourced — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.82.105 (talk) 19:16, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

On This Day
I’ve noticed — for some of the days in October — that some of the entries refer us to the relevant page from OnThisDay.com.

Which is fair enough.

But can we ALSO start adding the equivalent page from Britannica.com?

I also note we’ve long had entries from the BBC, the New Yor Times and the Canada Channel.

Is it possible to add the equivalents — if there are any — from Australia and New Zealand?

And possibly India?

I know it would add extra work, but having entries from major English language counties seems only right.

Cuddy2977 (talk) 11:46, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

9th October
Is International 'Yes Day' where you pick someone who has to say yes to you from 12:00am -12 :00am 154.47.103.13 (talk) 17:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

1831 – Kapodistrias assassinated
The entry says he was the first head of state of the Kingdom of Greece, which is obviously wrong. I suggest that he be identified as the first head of state of Greece following its independence from the Ottoman Empire. —70.107.189.128 (talk) 08:52, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Correction: Kapodistrias was already the governor when the war for independence ended, and when Greece's independence was recognized by France, Russia and the United Kingdom. He was the first head of state of the Hellenic State, but I suspect few readers will recognize that Hellenic State means Greece, or figure out when it existed. So, how about identifying him as the head of state of Greece when it became independent of the Ottoman Empire? —70.107.189.128 (talk) 09:37, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 9


text:
Talk:October 16

--mav 00:30, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Moved birth from article: Only Googlits are this page. Lupo 14:20, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * 1984 - Vanina Azar, musician

"1993 – Anti-Nazi riot breaks out in Welling in Kent, after police stop protesters approaching the British National Party headquarters." This sentence is hard to comprehend and frankly inaccurate. Strictly speaking, the BNP are not Nazis (who existed solely in Germany until 1945) and I highly doubt that the BNP themselves claim this. Associating Nazis with the BNP is not only NPOV but also terribly UK-centric. The majority of the English-speaking world has no clue who the BNP is, or that they are commonly associated with continental nationalist parties. At the very minimum, the riots should be called "Anti-Nazism" to distinguish the actual mid-century National Socialist party from the modern BNP. Even better phrasing should account for the parts of the BNP platform that catalyzed the riots ("Anti-anti-immigration riot" or something; someone with better first-hand knowledge of the event in question would be able to make something more accurate). I'm changing this to "Anti-Nazism" for the time being, and I hope that someone else can improve it further. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.188.8.27 (talk) 09:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Holidays and Observances: Magdalene of Nagasaki
The Wiki page for her lists Oct 20, as does the Augustinian Liturgical Calendar. Is there a better source for Oct. 16? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:30, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There's also a list that mentioned her feast day as 28 September. I guess I'll remove her from Oct 16 for being minor saint with various minor feast days (not notable enough).--Rochelimit (talk) 10:19, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

"Boss's Day"
a Hallmark holiday, should not be here. --142.163.194.161 (talk) 20:20, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Toddst1 (talk) 23:08, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

"World Anaesthesia Day"
industry promotion. Essential to health, yes, but not appropriate for this category --142.163.194.161 (talk) 20:23, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Toddst1 (talk) 23:08, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 16


text:
Talk:October 17

See Also section for the ordinal and spacing
The reverting of the article was too fast and caused an edit conflict when I corrected my redlink to a live link and the spacing for non-four-digit years. The page the reverter's summary linked to does not mention either the See Also section or a special spacing rule. The See Also section is analogous to that in a disambiguation page. List items are supposed to get one space after the asterisk/s, multiple spaces are interpreted as single spaces unless nonbreaking spaces are used, and section headings are supposed to be spaced between the equals signs and the section titles. What is the objection on either issue? Nick Levinson (talk) 17:41, 4 September 2013 (UTC) (Expanded: 17:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC))

 * Date articles are a little different. The pages are kept consistent by following the template at WikiProject Days of the year/Template.  The sections are considered static and any change must be discussed at WT:DAYS.  The Style section of WP:DAYS explains this.  The list items (after the *) are spaced to be consistent in the edit window.  Since it does not affect display, it is preferred to allow for easy reading in the edit window.  Spaces between equal signs are optional per MOS:HEAD and WP:BODY and there is never a need to change existing spacing.  If you have further questions on this, the better place to discuss is at WT:DAYS so it becomes part of the project record, not just on one article talk page.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 18:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Okay; I shouldn't have rushed and missed that there's a guideline on it (WP:DOY). I'll follow up. A notation: Spacing of list items is not consistent in the source code in the template or this page and for ease of reading in the edit window there should be spacing. Thanks. Nick Levinson (talk) 15:58, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

 * I don't follow. The spacing is consistent.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 16:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

 * It's not. Here's an example from WikiProject Days of the year/Template:
 * * 1864   – Qi Baishi, Chinese painter (d. 1957)
 * *1867 – Lew Fields, American vaudeville performer (d. 1941)
 * However, it appears that the inconsistency is intentional, in that it causes the en-dash strings to line up vertically in the edit window. I hadn't noticed that before this visit and that kind of alignment is not important to me but I can see why some editors might prefer it. I'll think about whether every list item therefore should have at least one space after the asterisk/s, adding one to pre-existing padding, in order to keep the alignment.
 * Nick Levinson (talk) 16:52, 5 September 2013 (UTC) (Corrected formatting: 16:55, 5 September 2013 (UTC)) (Corrected a format where nowiki doesn't work: 17:00, 5 September 2013 (UTC))

Kannemesai Festival
the article that is linked for this festival says "in October" but doesn't specify the date. I can't find one on-line. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

The Tomb of Seti 1st.
According to the Wikipedia entry on Seti’s tomb? It was actually opened on 16th October.

Is it possible for some to check on when Belzoni discovered the tomb, and correct the article, or the On This Day pages?

Thanks.

Cuddy2977 (talk) 18:04, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

 * According to the (archived) source on this page, the date it was opened is 17 October 1817. Kiwipete (talk) 09:03, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks Pete. While there is an article about the tomb, there is no article about the discovery of the tomb.  I've removed the entry. Toddst1 (talk) 14:58, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Significance
Event of this day 2409:4071:200B:78C1:0:0:8C0:80B0 (talk) 14:54, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 17


text:
Talk:October 18

Shouldn't thi have a template of its own? that way, all that has to be done is edit the TDIH template by adding the date, and it automatially selects the proper template?HereToHelp|talk 02:07, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

 * october 18th is msmpokegamers birthday but wikitubia exists... so yeah 2405:6E00:E90:E200:E052:6F14:F322:ED1C (talk) 05:00, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Syed Mohammed Sadiq Naqvi
I can't find anything on this person, either in Wikipedia or from a cursory search of other sources. Additionally, his death in 2007 has been spuriously placed in events after it was deleted from the "Deaths" section. If there is an English wiki article for this person, link it, and if not, create it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.188.8.27 (talk) 07:18, 18 October 2012

World Menopause Day
Should it be included?--Mycomp (talk) 00:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 00:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Edict of Paris
This is currently described as "defends the rights of the Frankish nobles and restricts Jewish employment", but this is not representative. It's even contradictory, because the Edict allowed locals to chose judges at the loss of Frankish nobles. It could more accurately described as "defends the rights of women to marry of their own free will, and allows local appointment of judges." If we're afraid to tread on social topics, I would suggest:

 * 614 or 615 (because the year is uncertain) - The Edict of Paris is promulgated by Chlothar II, becoming the last Merovingian capitularia

130.233.3.131 (talk) 06:17, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

All-Female Spacewalk
October 18 2019 at the International Space Station the first all-female spacewalk took place. As a "first," I feel comfortable saying it will stand the test of time. As a notable event, it was heavily covered in the news cycle and by notable people across the globe. There are also ample reliable sources to do direct citations. As such, I feel it meets the criteria for inclusion and would like to add it. However, as I have not added an 'on this day' to Wikipedia before I felt it appropriate to open for discussion. Sevey13 (talk) 16:16, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 18


text:
Talk:October 19

Invention of the Discotheque
Removed entry "*1959 – The first discothèque opens, the Scotch-Club in Aachen, Germany." for the following reasons: 1) Scotch-Club article is orphaned, contains no citations, is biased & possibly not noteworthy, and thus cannot be trusted. 2) There is cited support for Régine Zylberberg being the creator of the disco motif, in Paris around 1953. Zylberberg used two linked turntables, colored lights and a decorated dance floor, whereas the Scotch-Club article states that someone simply used one turntable in place of live music one night. Marquess (talk) 15:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Clarity in Nationality
Guys, please, please can we have some degree of uniformity when it comes to British nationality being listed on the date page? I keep seeing people described as English, Welsh, Scottish, etc. on the date pages and British on their own pages. Or vice-versa. Can we at least match the wiki pages before we get into a discussion (well covered at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:UKNATIONALS#Changing_an_existing_UK_nationality) about which version/degree of nationality to use?

Thanks Robata Robata (talk) 16:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

World Toilet Day
World Toilet Day, sponsored by the World Toilet Organization since its founding in 2001, is supported by about 180 of the 190 members of the United Nations (UN). Unable to retrace my steps ro find out for sure.

Deutsche Welle, the independent national broadcaster of Germany which made a documentary called Great Toilet Battle.

Lack of hygene and indeed lack of toilets cause unheathiness especially for the billions living in the third world, especially for children.

Is this justification enough to add WTO to 19 October? MountVic127 (talk) 17:14, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 19


text:
Talk:October 20

Fire
Octer 20, 2007- A wildfire ravaged Southern California evacuating more people than Hurricane Katrina —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.138.131 (talk) 20:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Baseball
You seem very adiment about taking off items on a page. a grand slam is a big thing in baseball when it correlates to a postseason win. especially when that win propels them into a major comeback and then a sweep of the world series. its also important because it was 3 years to the date that it last happend. you may not like baseball but that is an important part of the game. you seem to not even care that you take it off becuase you give no reason as to why you remove that entry. -- Agent PY (talk) 13 November 2007
 * Actually, I'm quite a big fan of the Red Sox. I was even at the parade.  The fact is that the particular event is not a record, and is not a globally notable event.  One must have an objective view of such events when making a judgment as to global notability.  It is important from a Red Sox fan's perspective, but to the rest of the world it is just trivia.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 19:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * half of all information is trivial. that is what makes it interesting. it gives a chance to look back and see what was in common with certain events. saying something shouldnt be in a wiki becuase it is trivia isnt helping the cause. as for the record it is a part of a record. it is part of the comebacks in postseason. it may not be important to a yankees fan, but a fan of baseball knows its importance. as far as other trivia why would i care about death of some random doctor that won the noble peace prize. but someone does care and it is important to some. Agent PY 19:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that half of the information in Wiki is trivial. That is the point of the Wikicalendar project.  Things that go on Wikicalendar articles are meant to be notable to everyone - not just baseball fans.  These articles (specifically) are not meant to have trivial items in them.  I also agree that the articles are in constant need of cleanup, but there are not many editors dedicated to the project.  I'm sure that you understand that the newest additions always get the first attention.  Have a look at WikiProject Days of the year  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 21:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a world encyclopedia; most of the world have no interest in baseball. Jim Michael (talk) 19:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Poem
There is also a poem by Patti Smith from Witt called "October 20". --The Watusi (talk) 19:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Pizza
Why is there a box denoting this page as a part of a series of articles on pizza? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.36.67 (talk) 05:08, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed (Schultkl (talk) 15:23, 20 October 2011 (UTC))

Please add
Under births.

 * 1965 Amos Mansdorf, Israeli tennis player

Pre-1600
It seems as though many events from pre-1600 have been dropped from the main page. Today's date provides an example where the siege of Antioch is listed on the main Wikipedia page, yet the event is not listed when one goes to the full page for October 20th.2603:6010:6D00:A24:8961:B055:2A86:7F8A (talk) 12:14, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

--2604:2000:E010:1100:25B2:FF31:4834:19D5 (talk) 07:21, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 20


text:
Geta (footwear)

Geta (下駄) (pl. geta) are traditional Japanese footwear resembling flip-flops. A kind of sandal, geta have a flat wooden base elevated with up to three (though commonly two) "teeth", held on the foot with a fabric thong, which keeps the foot raised above the ground.

History

The earliest known pair of geta was excavated in a neolithic archaeological site near Ningbo, Zhejiang, China, dated to the Liangzhu culture (3400–2250 BCE). These geta differed in construction to modern geta, having five or six holes in place of the modern-day three. The use and popularity of wooden clogs in China has been recorded in other sources dating to between the Spring and Autumn period (771–476 BCE) to the Qin (221–206 BCE) and Han dynasties (202 BCE–220 CE). Geta-style shoes were worn in Southern China likely until sometime between the Ming (1368–1644) and Qing dynasties (1636/1644–1912), when they were replaced by other types of footwear.

It is likely that geta originated from Southern China and were later exported to Japan. Examples of Japanese geta dating back to the latter part of the Heian period (794–1185) were found in Aomori in 2004, during an excavation along the right bank of the Shinjo river.

Oiran (花魁) – high-ranking courtesans of the feudal period in Japan – wore tall, lacquered -geta or (lit. 'three legs') when walking in a parade with their attendants. Whereas geisha and wore  socks,  chose not to, even in winter, as the bare foot against a lacquered clog was considered to be erotic, leaving the toes poking out under their expensive and highly decorated padded kimono.

This style of geta was likely worn as a point of visual distinction between, geisha and their apprentice geisha, as though the former entertained the upper classes, the latter did not, and were considered to be lower-class, despite their immense popularity.

Some seafood and fish merchants also used very high geta with particularly long teeth to keep their feet above any scraps of fish on the floor of their shops; these were known as geta.

Use

Geta are primarily worn with, but sometimes also with Western clothing during the summer months. As geta are usually worn only with or other informal Japanese clothes or Western clothes, there is no need to wear socks. Ordinarily, people wear slightly more formal zori when wearing.

Geta are worn with the foot overhanging the back and a finger-width of space between the strap and the skin webbing between the toes. The toes pinch the strap to lift the toe of the geta. Wearing them otherwise can make balancing more difficult and blisters more likely.

In weather
Sometimes geta are worn in rain to keep the feet dry, due to their extra height and impermeability compared to other footwear such as zori. The inflexibility of geta means that water and dirt are not flipped up onto the back of the legs.

Geta are not normally worn in snow, because snow often gets stuck to the teeth of the geta, making it difficult to walk. However, in historical times, they were worn in the snow.

Geta may come with removable toe covers for use in cold, snow and rain. Some even come with ice skating blades.

Styles
There are several different styles of geta. The most familiar style consists of an unfinished wooden board called a lit. 'stand' (台) that the foot is set upon, with a cloth thong (known as the hanao (鼻緒)) passing between the big toe and second toe.

The supporting blocks below the base boards, called the lit. 'tooth' (歯), are also made of wood, usually very light-weight paulownia wood (known as kiri (桐)). If there are two "teeth", the forefront one is placed under the ball of the foot, and the geta pivots on it while walking, while the rear one is placed under the standing center of gravity. The teeth make a distinctive "clacking" sound while walking, referred to as karankoron (カランコロン). This is sometimes mentioned as one of the sounds that older Japanese people miss most in modern life. A traditional saying in Japanese translates as "You don't know until you have worn geta." This means roughly, "you can't tell the results until the game is over."

The original motivation for wearing the high platform shoes was not fashion, but practicality: to keep feet and kimono from coming in contact with things on the ground, such as dirt, filth, water, or snow.

The may vary in shape, from oval shapes to more rectangular, with the former being considered more feminine and the latter more masculine. Geta also vary in colour from natural wood to lacquered or wood-stained varieties. The may also vary in style; for example,  geta have only a single centered "tooth". There are also less common geta with three teeth.

Geisha
(geisha in training) wear distinctive tall geta called, which are similar to the chopines worn in Venice during the Renaissance. Very young girls also wear (also called  and ) that have a small bell inside a cavity in the thick sole. These geta have no teeth, but are formed of one piece of wood. The middle part is carved out from below and the front is sloped to accommodate for walking.

for young girls are usually red in color and are not worn with, but a very fancy kimono, usually the bright, colourful kimono worn for. are usually worn with socks.

Construction

Geta are made of one piece of solid wood forming the sole and two wooden blocks underneath. These blocks may have a metal plate on the section that touches the ground in order to lengthen the life span of the geta. A V-shaped thong of cloth forms the upper part of the sandal.

The teeth are usually not separate, instead, the geta is carved from one block of wood. The tooth is, however, strengthened by a special attachment. The teeth of any geta may have harder wood drilled into the bottom to avoid splitting, and the soles of the teeth may have rubber soles glued onto them.

The can be wide and padded, or narrow and hard, and can be made with many sorts of fabric. Printed cotton with traditional Japanese motifs is popular, but there are also geta with vinyl and leather. Inside the is a cord (synthetic in modern times, but traditionally hemp) that is knotted in a special way to the three holes of the. In the wide there is some padding as well. The are replaceable. It sits between the two first toes because having the thong of rectangular geta anywhere but the middle would result in the inner back corners of the geta colliding when walking.

Recently, as Western shoes have become more popular, more Western-looking geta have been developed. They are more round in shape, may have an ergonomically shaped, a thick heel as in Western clogs, instead of separate teeth, and the thong at the side as in flip-flops. According to Japanese superstition, breaking the thong on one's geta is considered very unlucky.

title: Geta (footwear)


text:
Talk:October 21

--mav 00:35, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

funeral of Konstantin Päts
I'm thinking that the funeral of Konstantin Päts doesn't meet the cut of notability for events. Perhaps move his death to the death section, but his funeral seems a bit beyond what we include. Toddst1 (talk) 05:08, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

November 30th
A Day of Remembrance for all victims of Chemical Warfare! 108.36.204.85 (talk) 18:10, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 21


text:
Hana-Kimi

Hana-Kimi: For You in Full Blossom (花ざかりの君たちへ), is a shōjo manga series written by Hisaya Nakajo. The manga was serialized in Japan in Hakusensha's semi-monthly shōjo manga magazine, Hana to Yume. The series was concluded with the Japanese release of volume 23 in November 2004. It was also adapted into several live-action television dramas. An anime adaptation has been announced.

Hana-Kimi was published in English by Viz Media with the final volume released in the United States in April 2008.

The series centers on Mizuki Ashiya, a Japanese girl who lives in the United States. One day, she sees a track and field competition on TV, and becomes attracted to one of the high jump competitors, Izumi Sano. She begins to idolize the young athlete and eventually transfers to Japan to attend the same school that Sano attends. Sano attends an all-boys high school named Osaka Gakuen and Mizuki attempts to disguise herself as a boy to enter.

Plot
Mizuki Ashiya, a Japanese girl living in the United States, watches a program on TV featuring a high jumper named Izumi Sano. She was amazed by his performance and begins following his athletic career. Years later, she does research on him and discovers that he is currently attending Osaka High School. The school is unfortunately an all-boys school and Mizuki convinces her parents to send her to Japan by herself.

Oblivious to the fact that their daughter is going to attend a boys school, her parents let her go. To enter the school, she cuts off her long hair, disguises herself as a male, and tries her best to give hope to Sano after hearing that he no longer does the high jump anymore. As she settles in, an accident reveals her identity to Hokuto Umeda, the school doctor, and Izumi Sano. Izumi hides his knowledge of Mizuki's gender and tries to help her keep her secret, though it sure is not easy as many situations land Mizuki in compromising positions that will reveal her true gender.

Setting
Ōsaka Gakuen (桜咲学園) or Ohsaka Gakuen as written in the entrance gate of the school in the Japanese drama adaptation, is an all-boys school and the setting of the series. Its sister school is St. Blossoms, an all-girls high school.

The three grade levels are divided into three classes. These nine classes are divided into three dormitories, as most of the students do not stay around the school area. The culture within the individual dormitories are immensely different.

Most students residing in the first dormitory are athletes who were accepted into Osaka High on a sports scholarship. The head of dormitory is Tennouji. The head of the second dormitory is Minami Nanba. The students in the second dorm are a mix of athletes and scholars who have a sports or academic scholarship. The third dormitory consists mainly of artistic and intelligent people and is headed by Masao Himejima. Inter-dorm rivalries are common and become particularly intense during the school's cultural festival.

Characters

 * Mizuki Ashiya (芦屋 瑞稀)
 * (drama CD)
 * Mizuki Ashiya is the female protagonist of the series. She admired Izumi Sano the moment she saw him high jump on TV. She disguises herself as a boy in order to enroll herself into Sano's school, Osaka Gakuen which allows her to get closer with Sano. She is a fun-loving, cheerful and optimistic character who cares deeply for her family and friends. Unfortunately, despite her kind heart, she is what one would call a ditz, so the secret of her gender has to constantly be protected by Sano. She has an older brother who arrived in Japan with the intent of bringing her home, but was forced to allow her to stay. It is suggested in the manga that the protectiveness of her older brother and her sheltered life in general has contributed to her frank and trusting nature, as well as her inability to hide her emotions.
 * She was portrayed by Maki Horikita in the Japanese drama adaptation, Ella Chen in the Taiwanese drama adaptation and Sulli Choi in the Korean drama adaption.

 * Izumi Sano (佐野 泉)
 * (drama CD)
 * Izumi Sano is the male protagonist of the series. An excellent high jumper before entering high school, he stopped for personal reasons when he entered high school. He found out Mizuki's true gender due to an accident early in the series. When he was young, his parents were involved in a car accident which killed his mother, impacting the family deeply. Sano ran away from home because of disagreements with his father but father and son reconcile in the end.
 * He was portrayed by Shun Oguri in the Japanese drama adaptation, Wu Zun in the Taiwanese drama adaptation and Choi Min-ho in the Korean drama adaption.

 * Shuichi Nakatsu (中津 秀一)
 * (drama CD)
 * Nakatsu is one of the students in living in the second dormitory. He likes Mizuki but he does not know that she is really a girl, causing some of his classmates to believe that he is homosexual. However, it is suggested that he is merely attracted to Mizuki's femininity which she has trouble hiding. When Nakatsu discovers Sano's feelings for Mizuki, he gives them his blessings in order to protect his friendship with Sano and let Mizuki be happy with the one she loves.
 * He was portrayed by Toma Ikuta in the Japanese drama adaptation and Jiro Wang in the Taiwanese drama adaptation and Lee Hyun-woo in the Korea drama adaption.

Manga
The manga series was first serialized in the 20th issue of Hakusensha's semi-monthly shōjo manga magazine, Hana to Yume in 1996. Its serialization continued where the series ended with 23 collected volumes with 144 chapters without including 5 special chapters that were published during the series' serialization and another 5 special chapters that were published after the series ended.

The series' 23 volumes were first published under the Hana to Yume Comics. It was then later re-published into 12 volumes of aizōban under the Hana to Yume Comics Special imprint. Each volume featured a new cover illustration and design as well as coloured pages.

Hana-Kimi was also published in English by Viz Media. The English release was previously only limited to Waldenbooks from February to May 2004. It was then made available to other retail stores after May that year. The English title originated from a fan abbreviation of the original Japanese title as the official U.S. translation ends the title with a he instead of e.

In March 2012, Viz Media released a 3-in-1 edition of all the previously published Hana-Kimi manga books in North America. Instead of 23 manga books, the series spans a total of eight 3-in-1 large manga books. The last volume of the 3-in-1 special edition was published in April, 2014.

Books
An illustration collection titled Hanazakari no Kimitachi e – Nakajō Hisaya Kakushu (花ざかりの君たちへ—中条比紗也画集) was released on May 19, 2004. 11 days later on May 30, 2004, a character book titled as Hanazakari no Kimitachi e – Nakajō Hisaya Kyarakutā Bukku (花ざかりの君たちへ—中条比紗也キャラクターブック). The illustration collection was also licensed in English by Viz Media under the title, The Art of Hana-Kimi. It was released on November 21, 2006.

On August 20, 2009, a manga anthology was published as a tribute to the series was released under the Hana to Yume Comics Special imprint. It was titled, Hanazakari no Kimitachi e Tribute – 35th Anniversary Hana to Yume Memorial (花ざかりの君たちへトリビュ-ト — 35周年花とゆめメモリアル) and was drawn by various manga artist including Satoshi Morie, affiliated with the magazine where Hana-Kimi was serialized. The cover was illustrated by the original author herself.

Drama CDs
There were a number of drama CDs released for the series. Only 2 were released commercially by Hakusensha and Marine Entertainment. The first drama CD was released on April 26, 2000. The second drama CD, titled Hanazakari no Kimitachi e II (花ざかりの君たちへ II) was released on August 23, 2002.

Live-action drama
Hana-Kimi has been adapted into several live-action television dramas:
 * 2006 – Hanazakarino Kimitachihe. It starred Ella Chen of S.H.E, Wu Chun and Jiro Wang of Fahrenheit and Danson Tang. The adaption was aired on Chinese Television System (CTS) and Gala Television (GTV) Variety Show/CH 28 from November 2006 for 15 episodes.
 * 2007 – Hanazakari no Kimitachi e. It starred Maki Horikita, Shun Oguri and Toma Ikuta. The adaption was aired on Fuji Television from July to September 2007 for 12 episodes.
 * 2011 – Hanazakari no Kimitachi e 2011. It starred Atsuko Maeda of Japan's popular girl group AKB48, Aoi Nakamura and Shohei Miura. The adaption was aired on Fuji Television from July to September 2011 for 11 episodes.
 * 2012 – To the Beautiful You, starring Sulli of f(x), Choi Min-ho of SHINee and Lee Hyun-woo. The adaption aired on SBS on August 15, 2012 for 16 episodes.

Anime
On May 15, 2024, an anime adaptation of Hana-Kimi was announced. Crunchyroll licensed the series.

Reception
The 23 Japanese volumes of the series has sold over 17 million copies in Japan. The English release of volume 6 was ranked 9th in the Bookscan chart while six months after, volume 9 came in 5th as one of the top-selling graphic novels in North America. The English release of volume 1 and 2 of the series were nominated under the Graphic Novel category of The Quills Awards in 2005. The series came in 3rd place for Top Shōjo Manga in Singapore in February 2007. According to Tohan, aizōban volumes 11 and 12 ranked 6th place for the week of September 12, 2007.

The English release of volume 17 was ranked 8th in the Publishers Weekly Comics Bestseller list. The 23rd volume of Hana-Kimi was released by Viz Media on April 1, 2008 and it was ranked 5th in the monthly Top 20 Graphic Novels rankings for the March 31, 2008 to April 27, 2008 period.

The total sales for the series' Japanese volumes came in 5th after Death Note in the ranking of the most read series throughout year 2007. The series ranked 37th place in Matt Blind's Top 300 series in 2008. It was later chosen as one of the series for School Library Journal's Good Comics for Kids Summer Reading Challenge in 2009.

Maria Lin noted that while she normally disliked female protagonists in manga, she praised Mizuki as an exception, crediting her with lifting the manga above other "pretty boy manga", enjoying her "never-give-up attitude". While Lin enjoyed the art style, she found the male characters' designs at times generic. Sheena McNeil felt that the premise was "shallow", but upon reading, found herself "caught up in the story". McNeil praised the art, citing its importance in a story of deception, enjoying the "gorgeous" character designs, but appreciating the departure from strict aesthetics for humour.

Liann Cooper felt that Hana-Kimi was one of Viz's most important shōjo properties due to its combination of humour, angst and the artwork, but criticised their cover design.

Kat Avila, due to the fourth volume's humour and attractive male characters, found she enjoyed Hana-Kimi better than Girl Got Game.

By the fourth and fifth volume, the author had increased the cast, but Maria Lin felt that the storyline was still coherent despite this.

title: Hana-Kimi


text:
Talk:October 22

Nonsense (?)
I removed the following, since it lacks a date and doesn't seem to be of any value.

 * Mark English - voted worlds best tiddlywinks player --Badger151 06:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Nonsense indeed. I'd say we get about 50 or so instances of such "vanity" edits to the Wikicalendar project each day.  Normally Mr. English would have been a redlink, but since he shares his name with a notable person, the bluelink might have made this nonsense addition less obvious.  Thanks for reverting it.  Fabricationary 06:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * awesome 2600:387:F:4B32:0:0:0:6 (talk) 10:59, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Deaths missing
These are missing for the 22nd October. Does the admin have a backup to restore them from? I am new to this, so this may not be the right place for this comment, but spent a few minutes reading the guidance before doing so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.227.210 (talk) 14:54, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The two parts of Lord Selkirk's plan
a) Take care of what to do with the displaced farmers or "crofters" in scottland. b)Solve the Hudson's bay companies problem of shipping food from England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.33.223.2 (talk) 20:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Bernhardt
Hello, I just note that an important person is missing from births: Sarah Bernhardt (October 22, 1844 – March 26, 1923) I hope somebody will take care of that. Best regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ticka nistor (talk • contribs) 20:56, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes check.svg Done! Karl 334 (talk) 22:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 22


text:
Talk:October 24

Ashlee Simpson
SNL incident significant enough? It's not even a blip on the radar of history. It might be worth mentioning on a timeline of 2004. Anyway, since she may have been singing along to a track and not lip synching per se, it's POV to state that as fact. Everyking 20:41, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * However, I believe the incident at the Orange Bowl tells another story. Would it be POV to state that for that day? -- Riffsyphon1024 00:06, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Restate that in a way that I can understand, please. Everyking 00:45, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * What? You didn't see it? -- Riffsyphon1024 02:20, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I see it, but it doesn't make much sense. Are you saying you think the Orange Bowl incident is more notable than the SNL incident? Everyking 02:31, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It may not be as notable, however it proves the point that she can't sing. -- Riffsyphon1024 02:34, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey, I just noticed an odd coincidence: 1024 = October 24. Everyking 02:50, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * No shit. -- Riffsyphon1024 03:08, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * That combined with such a vehemently negative attitude toward her might lead one to suspect the two are linked. But I have no idea. Anyway, what is your point, you just trying to goad me, or what? Everyking 03:17, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, one thing I plan to accomplish is to lessen your obsession with this pop star. (Btw, 1024 is my birthdate) -- Riffsyphon1024 03:24, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I must point out that this is beginning to look like trolling. Everyking 03:30, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think this is, it's not. Trolling is something else. This is more like setting the record straight. -- Riffsyphon1024 03:37, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

All right. Well, in the absence of any defense of the mention of the SNL incident on this article, I'll remove it soon. Everyking 03:42, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * You've had two already, so stop pretending. I'll add a third, and I'll revert you if you remove it. --Calton 03:46, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * That would be one. So explain your reasoning. Everyking 03:50, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * No, that would be three. Stop retending otherwise. --Calton 22:39, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * There's you, although you haven't given any reasoning. Jesse's Girl added it, but hasn't spoke up here yet. Riff argued with me but hasn't yet said it should be included. Everyking 02:23, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, I feel it's significant enough. -- Riffsyphon1024 03:27, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * So you would say this is a particularly notable historical event? Everyking 03:41, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * If it leads to the destruction of an career, yes. -- Riffsyphon1024 05:07, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to respond to such trollish nonsense. If you don't want to honestly talk about whether this is significant enough to go on the page, then we can just go on reverting. Everyking 05:41, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Honesty in discussion when it comes to Ashlee Simpson is the last thing you can pretend to be doing, Everyking. I know it, you know it, everyone else knows it: you really aren't fooling anyone at this point. --Calton 15:45, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * That does nothing to address the question of inclusion. Everyking 15:54, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, he reverted it. -- Riffsyphon1024 22:02, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

We have a revert war. -- Riffsyphon1024 07:45, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I think this event was quickly forgotten, and therefore not important enough for this article. I mean, i bet there are many events that were talked about longer then this was, and not on this page. --AlexTheMartian 05:34, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly. It might be worth a mention on a 2004 timeline. It would definitely be worth a mention on a 2004 in the U.S. timeline. But not in a general timeline giving the most important events to have occurred on this date throughout history. Everyking 08:37, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Then you dont mind if we include this in the 2004 article? -- Riffsyphon1024 01:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I would not object as strongly, no. Everyking 01:41, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Well even though I submitted it there, LegolasGreenleaf deleted it for non-notability, so end of story. -- Riffsyphon1024 02:28, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Ha, good sense prevails for once. Everyking 03:06, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm taking this off my watchlist and I will leave it to others to decide the matter. Everyking 06:11, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Alternate suggestions for news events - October 24, 2004
Am slightly puzzled that so many editors believe the Ashlee Simpson incident on Saturday Night Live really was the most significant event to occur in the world in 2004. This just smacks of baiting Everyking to me, especially given that the justifications for inclusion are (apparently) "[proving] the point that she can't sing" and "to lessen [Everyking's] obsession with this pop star".

If we really do need to list a significant world event for 2004, then surely either;

 * 12 hours of earthquakes batter northern Japan, leading to 17 deaths, and leaving over 1,000 injured., OR

 * The first new vaccine for tuberculosis in 80 years passes its clinical trials in the United Kingdom.

 * Umm, except that the Japanese earthquake happened on October 23rd, not 24th. --Calton 01:06, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In the great scheme of things, the revelation that a pop singer has been shown to be lip-synching on television seems incredibly insignificant. However, in the light of the arguments, I'm not going to edit the article, and will leave it to others to decide whether this should be replaced. - MykReeve 12:36, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Since multiple events can be listed for each day, nothing needs to be "replaced" or given sole priority. --Calton 01:06, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * The battle is over. Everyking won by margin of victory +2. -- Riffsyphon1024 19:04, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I am somewhat concerned that words such as "battle" and "won" are used in regard to this discussion. That hardly seems in the spirit of good-natured debate.

 * Nevertheless, if you mean that the community decision ultimately reached was that this event was not internationally noteworthy, (as is evinced by the comment above that the event was rapidly excised from the 2004 article), perhaps it should be removed from this article, and/or replaced with one of greater significance? - MykReeve 18:50, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This is absolutely ridiculous. If Everyking were to have added a similarly prominent (but positive) factoid about Ashlee Simpson to this article it would have, quite rightly, been removed. A minor incident involving a minor celebrity is not worthy of inclusion on this page - however much fun you find it to annoy Everyking. This is pure provocation, and frankly looks like bullying. How about trying a little maturity and good will. -- sannse (talk) 22:26, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * How about trying a little maturity and good will. Try explaining that to Everyking: the only way to avoid "goading" him is to avoid anything and everything that comes between him and his ownership of Ashlee Simpson, the subject. Period, full stop. Read Votes for deletion/Ashlee Simpson U.S. tour, 2005 if you want to see Everyking's defensiveness and pouting in action.

 * (And, I might point out, that the user who first added the event, Jessie's Girl, supported Everyking on that VfD, so you can't accuse that user of trying to provoke anything.) --Calton 01:06, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Those edit summaries strike me (as an editor) as a bit out of line. Taunting of the blocked is not considered suitable behaviour on Wikipedia. Please cool it - David Gerard 12:19, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Moving standards
There's quite a lot of strawmen on display above.

1) Nobody -- and I mean nobody -- has said that this was the most significant event to occur on October 24th, 2004. That's not even an issue, since multiple events can be listed per year. See, March 1, which lists five events.

2) "Internationally noteworthy" or world-shaking doesn't seem to apply in general to listings, to judge by the 4th (The Price is Right airs its 6,000 episode) and 5th (Punycode adopted by the national registrars of Germany, Austria and Switzerland) items on the list. For further examples, let's look at all of the listings from the first few days of March 2004:

March 2
 * 2004 - Voters in Georgia vote on a referendum concerning that state's flag.
 * 2004  - Disgruntled by the state's education act (Act 60), residents of Killington, Vermont vote to become part of New Hampshire.
 * 2004  - War in Iraq: Al Qaeda carries out the Ashoura Massacre in Iraq, killing 170 and wounding over 500.
 * 2004  - War in Iraq: A United Nations report from the weapons inspection teams states that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction of any significance after 1994, despite widespread belief to the contrary before the invasion.

March 4
 * 2004 - The files of Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun are released to the public five years after his death.
 * 2004 - FIFA reveals its list of 100 Greatest Living Footballers (otherwise known as the "FIFA 100")

March 5
 * 2004 - A three-headed frog is found in Weston-super-Mare, England.

March 5th also has some good examples from past years that also do not seem to fit Everyking's sudden interest in standards for date pages:

 * 1861 - Montgomery Blair is named 23rd Postmaster General of the United States by Abraham Lincoln
 * 1867 - Little River County, Arkansas is organized in the United States.
 * 2002 - MTV begins airing The Osbournes.
 * 2003 - University of Manchester and UMIST announce agreement to merge operations.
 * 2003 - Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks provokes controversy in the U.S. by stating that the band was "ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas."

3) In short, it's not a question of standards, it's a question of tip-toeing around Everyking's pet obsession. --Calton 01:09, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, I can agree that there are events here that simply do not hold up to the rest.
 * March 2 - a) The voting on a referendum is not as noteworthy as the day the referendum was passed. b) once again, voting, not really needed here.
 * March 4 - the FIFA List is not noteworthy enough, I've never heard of it.
 * March 5 - Now when's the last time we've found a three-headed frog. That can stay. However Little River County is not important enough, unless you wanted to include every county in the US. I'm not sure about the Osbournes article; it was popular, however is the premiere a notable thing? The event about UM and UMIST is not notable enough. My opinions stated. -- Riffsyphon1024 01:47, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rafael Devers
Hi all, Major League Baseball player Rafael Devers was born on this day. I don't know if it's appropriate to create this section here, but maybe someone more experienced with editing Wikipedia pages could review this and see if it could be added?

--69.43.65.127 (talk) 04:11, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 24


text:
Talk:October 25

1945
In 1945, Japan surrenders Taiwan to the Allied Powers and Republic of China. Japan would not surrender to China alone had Allied power not participated in the pacifica war. China never ever demonstrated the power to win the sino-Japanese war. Merely stating Japan surrendered Taiwan to China is neglecting the fact that China accepts Japanese surrender under the authorization of General MacArthur's general order number one. Therefore, to say that Japan surrendered Taiwan to China is a sheerly a POV.Mababa 18:57, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * That the ROC was an allied power is implied. If they surrender to the ROC, then they are already surrendering to an allied power. Saying they surrendered to both the Allied Powers and the Republic of China as if they were mutually exclusive is misleading and wrong. The only allied power that got Taiwan surrendered to it was the ROC, not the others and the ROC. There's a difference between surrendering and formal transfer of sovereignty if that's what you're trying to dispute. The sentence does not imply the latter. The subject here is Japan's surrender, not China's acceptance of the surrender. We need to emphasize or not emphasize certain things depending on subject. --Jiang 19:20, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The US diplomat George H. Kerr was there as well and signed on the surrender documentation. Kerr also make specific description that the surrender of Taiwan was a joint Sino-American occupation in his memorior, Formosa Betrayed. Please take a look at the book if you have time. Then you will understand, from the view point of a legality, that your paragraph was not true. The description of "Japan surrendered Taiwan to China" is a POV and it is wrong and misleading. Sovereignty does not have role in our discussion here.Mababa 20:50, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * If it's not too much work, I'm interested in some quotes. I read part of the book but not the part you're referring to. The Allied command asked that the Japanese forces surrender to the Republic of China in Taiwan as it also instructed them to do in mainland China. It was a command but nevertheless the truth. How's "The Republic of China takes over administration of Taiwan following Japan's surrender to the Allies"? The current form is not grammatical and slightly illogical. --Jiang 05:33, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

First of all, I would have to admit that I can not find the text of instrument of surrender in English anywhere on the net. I get this information from Kerr's book's description " In this unpleasant atmosphere we began the 'joint Sino-American occupation of Formosa. From the very beginning the problem of ........many more to come." in his chapter 76. This was stated in Kerr himself's words and I believe he used the term joint occupation with a reason. Secondly, this was described in a letter to the news paper. Thirdly, looking at the picture in Chong-Shang Hall, Taipei 1945, you will see that the national flag from allies are also hang in front of the ceremony. It is therefore obvious that the surrender was not to China only. I guess one of them should be the yong Kerr. I would be curious about why US choose to neglect their role in adminstrating Formosa as well. However, I am not a historian and I can not afford investing time doing such an individual research. Also, not fullfilling adminstrative role does not mean not having a legal responsibility. To my understanding, US tolerated Chiang since they want a serrogate to encrouch the spread of communism. Hoever, US never recognized the sovereignty claim of Taiwan from Chiang's ROC. The position is that ROC is a legal administrating government on Taiwan through occupation. Given the plethora documents left by Kerr, I would assume the description of US role on surrender instrument in the letter have basis and is not made up. These questions can be easily answered if one can pull out the english version of the instrument. I hope I have answered your questions. As for today's POV dispute, I would still insist that the surrender is not to China only, otherwise the allies's flags would not be displayed. To say that Japan surrender Formosa to China would be more misleading than say to China and the allied powers. Not be mislead by the chinese sign which states that they were observing as guests. ROC government has something else in their mind already.Mababa 10:03, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Okay, I have done my best trying to dig out the english version of the instrument of surrender signed in Taipei City Hall (Now Chungshan Hall). I also searched by General Rikichi Ando, governor-general of Taiwan and commander-in-chief of all Japanese forces on the island, and Chen Yi. Nothing useful came up. They must have hidden it. If you are satisfied by my explaination so far, I would like to remove the NPOV sign in the article. Also, please take some time to decide what do you want to do with Ma Yingjeo's page. Many thanks.Mababa 05:02, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Kerr is only one person so not everything he says is balanced or entirely true. The picture posted showed only one American flag in the room (and also note that a KMT flag was also posted, in addition to the ROC flag). I have nothing to comment on your explanation of the instrument of surrender. I didnt even know one specifically existed for Taiwan. I don't think my proposed text above contradicts the information you have given so I will add it. --Jiang 03:45, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your proposed text works fine. Thanks for your modification.Mababa 08:39, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I would add that Kerr not only being a witness in the surrender ceremony bu also was a diplomat equipped with training of international laws. He understood his duty and carried out his duty. His record indeed reflects his own point of view. However, it sould be weighed for heavier than other people. As for the flags in the picture, you missed the England one. Supposely there should be another different one at the pillar opposit to the side where England flag was displayed. Anyway, perhaps a entry of Japan surrender in Taipei city hall can be initiated.Mababa 06:30, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Debut of Led Zeppelin
Why shouldn't Led Zeppelin's gig at Surrey be included as a significant event? If a concerto by Tchaikovsky is considered an 'event' a landmark event in rock should be as well. Embele (talk) 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

 * The better question is why should the Led Zeppelin event be included. There is nothing that makes the first performance of a particular band an historic event that has long term global implications.   The Tchaikovsky performance is not a notable event either but we can't compare one event to another when trying to establish suitability for this list.  These lists do contain items that do not belong, but the newest always get noticed first.  This event has no significance except to the fans of the band.  It is nothing more than trivia.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 11:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

 * So I've come very late to this little chat, and I find it ironic that I was browsing the OTD for today and found it very boring, so I tried the talk page, and sure enough, there were a few interesting items. I had fun figuring out how to link to the article sections, so that was worthwhile, and the only other observation I would like to make is that I find the premier of a great piece of music, or the beginning of a great band's public performance career to both be notable events that I would like to read about.  For me, it's not just about wars, politics, etc...  Just sayin'.....Cellodont (talk) 18:05, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Mets Win Game 6 of 1986 World Series
This is in the top 10 Notable Sports Events of all time, the mets came from behind to Win against the Red Sox, after a ball slipped through Bill Buckners Glove, why isnt it posted —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.122.117 (talk • contribs) 23:40, 19 October 2010
 * Sporting events are generally not considered notable. From WP:DOY:
 * Sport records – unless they are significant world records (speed) or social precedents (e.g. first black man to play in MLB)
 * Winston365 (talk) 01:45, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Do we want to add World Pasta Day?
Just found out about this. Seems it might be legit.

http://www.pasta-unafpa.org/pasta-day.htm

Thanks! WesT (talk) 17:51, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No. See WP:DOY.  Swayback Maru Mufka's alternate account (talk) 18:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

 * Another one... a well-meaning editor has a suggestion for an inclusion that might brighten up someone's day, and what's the answer? "No"  ...Well, I wikilinked to the relevant article, providing a harmless alternative solution.Cellodont (talk) 18:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Zinoviev letter
I've toned down the entry on the Zinoviev letter. The original entry:
 * The forged Zinoviev Letter is published in the Daily Mail, wrecking the British Labour Party's hopes of re-election.

is almost entirely unsupported by the linked article. The article describes the Bennett paper as the 'definitive account' of the affair, and this concluded that it can't be known who wrote it - making the statement of 'forged' unwarranted. The article also says that historians generally agree that the letter did not affect the election; Labour was doomed anyway. GoldenRing (talk) 13:30, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Rebecca Pidgeon - born twice
I noted that British-American actress Rebecca Pidgeon's birth appears in "On This Day" twice, under both October 10, 1965 and October 25, 1965. I quickly found references from reputable and usually reliable sources for both of those October days (IMDb and FilmReference.com respectively). The latter source notes that the year may be 1963 or 1965. Actresses (and actors) have been known to adjust the year of their birth in opposite directions very early and much later in their careers, but don't simultaneously adjust the day of the year by an insignificant 15 days. Does anybody have a tie-breaking independent source to resolve this contradiction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisJBenson (talk • contribs) 19:49, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

"Hallowing of Nestorius"
This is a liturgy, not a holiday or observance. The article itself should perhaps be subsumed into the Nestorius article, but in any case it should be omitted here, leaving the Mar Nestorius. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 16:39, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

H & O - Day of the Basque Country
linked to the article about national days which doesn't mention Basque Country. No article or mention anywhere afaik. should be deleted. --142.163.195.253 (talk) 12:32, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:October 25