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Radiance

In radiometry, radiance is the radiant flux emitted, reflected, transmitted or received by a given surface, per unit solid angle per unit projected area. Radiance is used to characterize diffuse emission and reflection of electromagnetic radiation, and to quantify emission of neutrinos and other particles. The SI unit of radiance is the watt per steradian per square metre. It is a directional quantity: the radiance of a surface depends on the direction from which it is being observed.

The related quantity spectral radiance is the radiance of a surface per unit frequency or wavelength, depending on whether the spectrum is taken as a function of frequency or of wavelength.

Historically, radiance was called "intensity" and spectral radiance was called "specific intensity". Many fields still use this nomenclature. It is especially dominant in heat transfer, astrophysics and astronomy. "Intensity" has many other meanings in physics, with the most common being power per unit area.

Description
Radiance is useful because it indicates how much of the power emitted, reflected, transmitted or received by a surface will be received by an optical system looking at that surface from a specified angle of view. In this case, the solid angle of interest is the solid angle subtended by the optical system's entrance pupil. Since the eye is an optical system, radiance and its cousin luminance are good indicators of how bright an object will appear. For this reason, radiance and luminance are both sometimes called "brightness". This usage is now discouraged (see the article Brightness for a discussion). The nonstandard usage of "brightness" for "radiance" persists in some fields, notably laser physics.

The radiance divided by the index of refraction squared is invariant in geometric optics. This means that for an ideal optical system in air, the radiance at the output is the same as the input radiance. This is sometimes called conservation of radiance. For real, passive, optical systems, the output radiance is at most equal to the input, unless the index of refraction changes. As an example, if you form a demagnified image with a lens, the optical power is concentrated into a smaller area, so the irradiance is higher at the image. The light at the image plane, however, fills a larger solid angle so the radiance comes out to be the same assuming there is no loss at the lens.

Spectral radiance expresses radiance as a function of frequency or wavelength. Radiance is the integral of the spectral radiance over all frequencies or wavelengths. For radiation emitted by the surface of an ideal black body at a given temperature, spectral radiance is governed by Planck's law, while the integral of its radiance, over the hemisphere into which its surface radiates, is given by the Stefan–Boltzmann law. Its surface is Lambertian, so that its radiance is uniform with respect to angle of view, and is simply the Stefan–Boltzmann integral divided by π. This factor is obtained from the solid angle 2π steradians of a hemisphere decreased by integration over the cosine of the zenith angle.

Radiance
Radiance of a surface, denoted Le,Ω ("e" for "energetic", to avoid confusion with photometric quantities, and "Ω" to indicate this is a directional quantity), is defined as
 * $$L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega} = \frac{\partial^2 \Phi_\mathrm{e}}{\partial \Omega\, \partial(A \cos \theta)},$$

where
 * ∂ is the partial derivative symbol;
 * Φe is the radiant flux emitted, reflected, transmitted or received;
 * Ω is the solid angle;
 * A cos θ is the projected area.

In general Le,Ω is a function of viewing direction, depending on θ through cos θ and azimuth angle through. For the special case of a Lambertian surface, is proportional to cos θ, and Le,Ω is isotropic (independent of viewing direction).

When calculating the radiance emitted by a source, A refers to an area on the surface of the source, and Ω to the solid angle into which the light is emitted. When calculating radiance received by a detector, A refers to an area on the surface of the detector and Ω to the solid angle subtended by the source as viewed from that detector. When radiance is conserved, as discussed above, the radiance emitted by a source is the same as that received by a detector observing it.

Spectral radiance
Spectral radiance in frequency of a surface, denoted Le,Ω,ν, is defined as
 * $$L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega,\nu} = \frac{\partial L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega}}{\partial \nu},$$

where ν is the frequency.

Spectral radiance in wavelength of a surface, denoted Le,Ω,λ, is defined as
 * $$L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega,\lambda} = \frac{\partial L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega}}{\partial \lambda},$$

where λ is the wavelength.

Conservation of basic radiance
Radiance of a surface is related to étendue by
 * $$L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega} = n^2 \frac{\partial \Phi_\mathrm{e}}{\partial G},$$

where
 * n is the refractive index in which that surface is immersed;
 * G is the étendue of the light beam.

As the light travels through an ideal optical system, both the étendue and the radiant flux are conserved. Therefore, basic radiance defined by
 * $$L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega}^* = \frac{L_{\mathrm{e},\Omega}}{n^2}$$

is also conserved. In real systems, the étendue may increase (for example due to scattering) or the radiant flux may decrease (for example due to absorption) and, therefore, basic radiance may decrease. However, étendue may not decrease and radiant flux may not increase and, therefore, basic radiance may not increase.

title: Radiance


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Date rape drug

A date rape drug is any drug that incapacitates another person and renders that person vulnerable to sexual assault, including rape. The substances are associated with date rape because of reported incidents of their use in the context of two people dating, during which the victim is sexually assaulted or raped or suffers other harm. However, substances have also been exploited during retreats, for example ayahuasca retreats. The substances are not exclusively used to perpetrate sexual assault or rape, but are the properties or side-effects of substances normally used for legitimate medical purposes. One of the most common incapacitating agents for date rape is alcohol, administered either surreptitiously or consumed voluntarily, rendering the victim unable to make informed decisions or give consent.

Frequency
No comprehensive data exists on the frequency of drug-facilitated sexual assaults involving the use of surreptitious drug administration, due to the report rate of assaults and because rape victims who do report are often either never tested for these drugs, are tested for the wrong ones, or the tests are administered after the drug has been metabolized and left their body.

A 1999 study of 1,179 urine specimens from victims of suspected drug-facilitated sexual assaults in 49 American states found six (0.5%) positive for Rohypnol, 97 (8%) positive for other benzodiazepines, 48 (4.1%) positive for GHB, 451 (38%) positive for alcohol and 468 (40%) negative for any of the drugs searched for. A similar study of 2,003 urine samples of victims of suspected drug-facilitated sexual assaults found less than 2% tested positive for Rohypnol or GHB. The samples used in these studies could only be verified as having been submitted within a 72-hour time frame or a 48-hour time frame.

A three-year study in the UK detected sedatives or disinhibiting drugs that victims said they had not voluntarily taken in the urine of two percent of suspected drug-facilitated sexual assault victims. In 65% of the 1,014 cases included in this study, testing could not be conducted within a time frame that would allow detection of GHB. A 2009 Australian study found that of 97 instances of patients admitted to hospital believing their drinks might have been spiked, illicit drugs were detected in 28% of samples, and nine cases were identified as "plausible drink spiking cases". This study defined a "plausible drink spiking case" in such a way that cases where (a) patients believed that their drink had been spiked, and (b) lab tests showed agents that patients said they had not ingested would still be ruled out as plausible if the patient did not also (c) exhibit "signs and symptoms" that were considered "consistent with agents detected by laboratory screening."

Oral
In slang, a Mickey Finn (or simply a Mickey) is a drink laced with a psychoactive drug or incapacitating agent (especially chloral hydrate) given to someone without their knowledge, with intent to incapacitate them. Serving someone a "Mickey" is most commonly referred to as "slipping someone a mickey". Drink spiking is common practice by predators at drinking establishments who often lace alcoholic drinks with sedative drugs.

Syringe injection
Multiple reports of needle spiking were reported by young women in the United Kingdom from 2021 onwards.

On 27 October 2021, the Garda Síochána (Irish police) began an investigation after a woman was spiked with a needle in a Dublin nightclub.

Depressants
Alcohol, consumed voluntarily, is the most commonly used drug involved in sexual assaults. Since the mid-1990s, the media and researchers have also documented an increased use of drugs such as flunitrazepam and ketamine to facilitate sexual assaults in the context of dating. Other drugs that have been used include hypnotics such as zopiclone, methaqualone and the widely available zolpidem (Ambien), sedatives such as neuroleptics (anti-psychotics), chloral hydrate and some histamine H1 antagonists, common recreational drugs such as ethanol, cocaine, and less common anticholinergics, barbiturates, opioids, PCP, scopolamine, nasal spray ingredient oxymetazoline, and certain GABAergics like GHB. Gamma-Butyrolactone is also often referred to as being used in sexual assaults.

Alcohol

Researchers agree that the drug most commonly involved in drug-facilitated sexual assaults is alcohol, which the victim has consumed voluntarily in most cases. In most jurisdictions, alcohol is legal and readily available and is used in the majority of sexual assaults. Many perpetrators use alcohol because their victims often drink it willingly, and can be encouraged to drink enough to lose inhibitions or consciousness. Sex with an unconscious victim is considered rape in most jurisdictions and some assailants have committed "rapes of convenience", assaulting a victim after he or she had become unconscious from drinking too much.

Alcohol consumption is known to have effects on sexual behavior and aggression. During social interactions, alcohol consumption causes more biased appraisal of a partner's sexual motives while impairing communication about and enhancing misperception of sexual intentions, effects exacerbated by peer influence about how to behave when drinking. The effects of alcohol at the point of forced sex commonly include an impaired ability to rectify misperceptions and a diminished ability to resist sexual advances and aggressive sexual behavior.

The Blade released a special report, "The Making of an Epidemic," criticizing a study conducted in the 1990s that concluded that 55% of rape victims had been intoxicated. According to The Blade, the study specifically ignored an Ohio statute that excluded "situations where a person plies his intended partner with drink or drugs in hopes that lowered inhibition might lead to a liaison." The author of the study later admitted that the wording of the survey had been ambiguous.

Alcohol in campus rape
The increase of sexual assaults on college campuses has been attributed to the social expectations of students to participate in alcohol consumption; social norm dictates that students drink heavily and engage in casual sex.

Various studies have concluded the following:
 * On average, at least 50% of college sexual assault cases are associated with alcohol use.
 * On college campuses, 74% of the perpetrators and 55% of the victims had been drinking alcohol.
 * In 2002, more than 70,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 were victims of alcohol-related sexual assault in the U.S.
 * In violent incidents recorded by the police in which alcohol was a factor, about 9% of the offenders and nearly 14% of the victims were under age 21.

Zolpidem
Zolpidem (Ambien) is one of the most common date-rape drugs according to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

Benzodiazepines
Benzodiazepines (tranquilizers), such as Valium, Librium, Klonopin, Xanax, and Ativan, are prescribed to treat anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, and several other conditions, and are also frequently used recreationally. Benzodiazepines are often used in drug-facilitated sexual assaults, with the most notorious being flunitrazepam (chemical name) or Rohypnol (proprietary or brand name), also known as "roofies," "rope," and "roaches."

The benzodiazepines midazolam and temazepam were the two most common benzodiazepines utilized for date rape.

Benzodiazepines can be detected in urine through the use of drug tests administered by medical officials or sold at pharmacies and performed at home. Most tests will detect benzodiazepines for a maximum of 72 hours after it was taken. Most general benzodiazepine detection tests will not detect Rohypnol: the drug requires a test specifically designed for that purpose. One new process can detect a 2 mg dose of Rohypnol for up to 28 days post-ingestion. Other tests for Rohypnol include blood and hair tests. Because the most commonly used drug tests often yield false negatives for Rohypnol, experts recommend use of gas chromatography-mass spectrometry analysis.

Rohypnol
Rohypnol (Flunitrazepam) pills are typically small and dissolve readily into drinks without significantly affecting their taste or color, allowing the pills to be easily administered surreptitiously to victims.

In one 2002 survey of 53 women who used Rohypnol recreationally, 10% said they were physically or sexually assaulted while under its influence. If enough of the drug is taken, a person may experience a state of automatism or dissociation. After the drug wears off, users may find themselves unable to remember what happened while under its influence (anterograde amnesia), and feeling woozy, hung-over, confused, dizzy, sluggish and uncoordinated, often with an upset stomach. They may also have some difficulty moving their limbs normally.

Rohypnol is believed to be commonly used in drug-facilitated sexual assaults in the United States, the United Kingdom, and throughout Europe, Asia and South America. Although Rohypnol's use in drug-facilitated sexual assaults has been covered extensively in the news media, researchers disagree about how common such use actually is. Law enforcement manuals describe it as one of the drugs most commonly implicated in drug-facilitated sexual assaults. Despite having a long half-life (18–28 hours) an incorrect belief is that Rohypnol is undetectable 12 hours after administration which may result in victims failing to get a blood or urine test the following day.

GHB
Gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) is a central nervous system depressant. It has no odor and tastes salty, but the taste can be masked when mixed in a drink.

GHB is used recreationally to stimulate euphoria, to increase sociability, to promote libido and lower inhibitions. It is sold under names such as Rufies, Liquid E and Liquid X. It is usually taken orally, by the capful or teaspoon.

From 1996 to 1999, 22 reports of GHB being used in drug-facilitated sexual assaults were made to the United States Drug Enforcement Administration. A 26-month study of 1,179 urine samples from suspected drug-facilitated sexual assaults across the United States found 4% positive for GHB. The National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC) says that in the United States GHB had surpassed Rohypnol as the substance most commonly used in drug-facilitated sexual assaults, likely because GHB is much more easily available, cheaper and leaves the body more quickly. GHB is only detectable in urine for six to twelve hours after ingestion.

Ayahuasca
Ayahuasca has been used in some ayahuasca retreats to sexually abuse ayahuasca tourists.

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)
MDMA is an empathogen. Although it is not sedating like other date rape drugs, it has been used to facilitate sexual assault. It can increase disinhibition and sexual desire. Often Ecstasy is combined with amphetamines or other drugs.

Detection
Several devices have, in recent years, been developed to detect the presence of date rape drugs, many designed with discreetness in mind. One, developed by two Tel Aviv University researchers, is a sensor for gamma-hydroxybutyric acid and ketamine, but appears similar to a straw, and sends a text to the user's phone to warn them. In 2022, another "Smart Straw" product was designed by students at the University of Nantes: a non-electronic stainless steel straw including a ring that would change colors in the presence of GHB, Rohypnol, or ketamine. Another, designed by four North Carolina State University students, is a nail polish that changes color in the presence of date rape drugs. Several others have also been designed with these color-changing mechanisms in mind.

Media coverage
There were three stories in the media about Rohypnol in 1993, 25 in 1994 and 854 in 1996. In early 1996, Newsweek magazine published "Roofies: The date-rape drug" which ended with the line "Don't take your eyes off your drink." That summer, researchers say all major American urban and regional newspapers covered date rape drugs, with headlines such as "Crackdown sought on date rape drug" (Los Angeles Times), "Drug zaps memory of rape victims" (San Francisco Chronicle). In 1997 and 1998, the date rape drug story received extensive coverage on CNN, ABC's 20/20 and Primetime Live, as well as The Oprah Winfrey Show. Women were advised not to drink from punch bowls, not to leave a drink unattended and keeping drinks with them at all times (including when going to a dance or the bathroom, or using the phone), not to try new drinks, not to share drinks, not to drink anything with an unusual taste or appearance, take their own drinks to parties, drink nothing opened by another person, and if they feel sick to go with someone they know and not alone or with someone they just met or do not know.

News media has been criticized for overstating the threat of drug-facilitated sexual assault, for providing "how to" material for potential date rapists and for advocating "grossly excessive protective measures for women, particularly in coverage between 1996 and 1998. Law enforcement representatives and feminists have also been criticized for supporting the overstatements for their own purposes.

Craig Webber states that this extensive coverage has created or amplified a moral panic rooted in societal anxieties about rape, hedonism and the increased freedoms of women in modern culture. Goode et al say it has given a powerful added incentive for the suppression of party drugs, has inappropriately undermined the long-established argument that recreational drug use is purely a consensual and victimless crime. By shining a spotlight on premeditated criminal behavior, Philip Jenkins states that it has relieved the culture from having to explore and evaluate more nuanced forms of male sexual aggression towards people, such as those displayed in date rapes that were not facilitated by the surreptitious administration of drugs.

For similar moral panics around social tensions manifesting via discussion of drugs and sex crime, researchers point to the opium scare of the late 19th century, in which "sinister Chinese" were said to use opium to coerce white women into sexual slavery. Similarly, in the Progressive Era, a persistent urban legend told of white middle-class women being surreptitiously drugged, abducted and sold into sexual slavery to Latin American brothels. This analysis does not contradict instances when date rape drugs are used or sexual trafficking occurs; its focus is on actual prevalence of certain crimes relative to media coverage of it.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Date rape drug


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Horned puffin

The horned puffin (Fratercula corniculata) is an auk found in the North Pacific Ocean, including the coasts of Alaska, Siberia and British Columbia. It is a pelagic seabird that feeds primarily by diving for fish. It nests in colonies, often with other auks.

It is similar in appearance to the Atlantic puffin, its closest relative of the North Atlantic, but differs by a "horn" of black skin located above the eye, present in adult birds.

Etymology
The binomial name of this species, Fratercula corniculata, comes from the Medieval Latin fratercula, meaning “friar”; their black-and-white plumage resembling the robes of monks. Corniculata means “horn-shaped” or “crescent-shaped”, in reference to the black horn above the bird's eye.

The vernacular name puffin – puffed in the sense of swollen – was originally applied to the fatty, salted meat of young birds of the unrelated species, the Manx shearwater (Puffinus puffinus), formerly known as the "Manks puffin". It is an Anglo-Norman word (Middle English pophyn or poffin) used for the cured carcasses. The Atlantic puffin acquired the name at a much later stage, possibly because of its similar nesting habits, and it was formally applied to that species by Pennant in 1768. It was later extended to include the similar and related Pacific puffins.

The Yup’ik of the Yukon–Kuskokwim Delta call the puffin "qilangaq", "qengacuar(aq)" (“little nose”), or "qategarpak" (“large white breast”). The Ainu people of Sakhalin call them etupirka, which means "beautiful beak".

Description
The height of the adult puffin is approximately 8 in, the weight is approximately 500 g, and the wingspan is approximately 23 in. Horned puffins are monomorphic (the male and female exhibit the same plumage coloration). Sexually mature birds have a small fleshy black "horn" extending upwards from the eye, from which the animal derives its common name — the horned puffin. A dark eyestripe extends backwards from the eye towards the occiput. The cheeks are white, with a yellow wattle at the base of the bill. The legs and feet are orange.

The horned puffin's bill, which is larger than those of other puffin species, is red at the tip and yellow at the base. In summer (breeding) plumage, the bill's outer layer – the rhamphotheca – grows in size and turns bright yellow with a dark orange tip. The size and color of the rhamphotheca helps to attract a mate. The brilliant outer layers of the rhamphotheca are shed in late summer, as the face reverts to a gray and black color, and the legs and feet fade to a pale fleshy color. This phase is referred to as eclipse plumage. The puffin's bill has fluorescent properties that are also used to attract a partner. Puffins can see ultraviolet rays, allowing them to spot luminescence on the bills of other puffins during the courtship display.

The horned puffin chick has smoky-gray cheeks and a fine, black triangular-shaped beak. The feet are pinkish or greyish. The juvenile's height is less than that of the adult at the time of leaving the nest. Young puffins lose their greyish facial spots during their first springtime. The beak gains its developed form at the age of one year and continues to grow over the years, reaching the brightest coloration at five years, the point of sexual maturity. The puffin reaches its adult size and weight at this period.

Call
Horned puffins emit a relatively small number of sounds, mostly low in volume. These guttural noises are identified as cooing, roaring or grunting. The most common puffin sound is usually transcribed as "arr-arr-arr", which accelerates when the animal is threatened, becoming an "A-gaa-kah-kha-kha”. These noises are most often produced by adults and are similar to bellowing, described as the "distant sound of a chainsaw”.

The sounds during the mating season can be transcribed as "Op-op-op-op-op”. These sounds are rarely made outside breeding times, and puffins are quieter at sea.

Distribution and habitat
The horned puffin is relatively common across its range. It is present throughout the northern Pacific Ocean, including the Shumagin Islands of the Bering Sea, the Siberian coast, Kamchatka, Sakhalin, and the Kuril Islands. In North America, it is found on the western coasts of Alaska and British Columbia, Haida Gwaii and the Aleutian Islands. Horned Puffin are also found in the vicinity of the Chukchi Sea and especially on Wrangel Island. More rarely, the species travels as far south as Japan and the coasts of Oregon and California. It is not a migratory bird, although it winters far out to sea.

Horned puffins live among steep rocky slopes and cliffs. Unlike other puffins, they dig little or no burrows, preferring rock crevices or shelters under piles of rock for home and shelter.

As of 2023, for the last several years, at least one Horned Puffin has been seen spending the summer months at Smith Island, Washington, in the Salish Sea, alongside the local breeding population of Tufted Puffins. Researchers, with help from several commercial Whale Watching companies in the region, are trying to figure out if this is a lone individual, or a potentially a mated pair. If it is the latter, this would add a breeding location for the species hundreds of miles away from their normal grounds.

Flight
To achieve flight, horned puffins either jump off a cliff to gain momentum, or races across the water to reaching the speed required for takeoff. Horned puffins fly compactly and quickly, 10 to 30 meters above sea level. The wing beats are constant, rapid and regular. They fly in groups of about two to fifteen individuals, traveling between nesting and foraging grounds, sometimes with tufted puffins or murres.

On land
The horned puffin walks upright, gripping rock surfaces with its claws, and climbs cliffs with ease. Its normal running position is made on low density soil, usually around a hole.

Horned puffins live and breed in colonies of tens to thousands or more. They fly in circular motions above the colony before landing, upon which they adopt a dominant or submissive posture towards other birds. The sign of submission is to briefly hold their legs slightly apart and spread their wings over their head for about four seconds. The puffin's dominant display is to holding its beak open with its tongue lowered (known as "gaping"), back feathers erect, stepping in place as it rocks from side to side. This gesture is often made towards a rival puffin, who may either back down or fight with the intruder. During fights, puffins lock bills and beat each other with their wings, and the two combatants may tumble down a slope or cliff still locked in battle.

At sea
Horned puffins spend half of their time on water, paddling along the surface with their feet. They are extremely agile underwater, to the point that their movement can be called "underwater flight" rather than swimming. Their powerful wings serve as oars and their webbed feet work as a rudder. Water pressure keeps the feathers glued to the body, placing the puffin into an aerodynamic shape. Puffins can easily stay longer than one minute under water.

Like most other seabirds, horned puffins have waterproof plumage, which permits it to dive and prevents rapid heat loss. This is made possible by its feather disposition and a specialized gland near the tail called the uropygial gland. This secretes a greasy and hydrophobic liquid that the puffin spreads on its plumage with its beak, permitting it to float.

Food and hunting techniques
Adult horned puffins are quite general in their diet, feeding on fish, small invertebrates, crustaceans, polychaete worms and squid. They also feed on small algae and marine plants.

To catch fish, horned puffins dive down to about 30 meters, pursuing prey mostly taking place at 15 meters in depth. The puffin most commonly hunts in the early morning. It dives head first into water, as it stakes out a school of fish, and keeps an eye out for predators. Once the prey is spotted, the puffin dives in pursuit. Diving for prey usually lasts between 20 and 30 seconds. Puffins usually swallow several small fish before the bringing rest back to the colony. They do not take the time to readjust their prey within their beaks, so as not to risk losing their meal.

Hunting areas are usually located fairly far offshore from the nest. Horned puffins will return from hunting with several small fish, squid or crustaceans in their specialized bills. The chicks have a less varied diet, feeding mainly on sandeel or capelin from near the coast. These fish are distributed by the parents two to six times per day. Unlike many other seabirds, which employ regurgitation to feed their young, horned puffins feed their chicks whole fish directly from the bill. Both parents participate in the feeding and rearing of the chick.

Reproduction
The horned puffin reaches sexual maturity between the age of five and seven years, entering the breeding season between May and September. Horned puffin pairs are monogamous. Courtship begins as the male and female puffin swim alongside on the water. The male displays by arising from the water, neck outstretched, opening and closing the bill while jerking the head. The female makes a hunched posture with her neck contracted inwards, close to the water surface. This is followed by billing, a practice where mated birds touch beaks. A slight head movement from both partners confirms that the couple will now mate for life. The male then mounts the female from behind, beating his wings to keep balance. After about 35 seconds of mating, the female proceeds to dive down and surface again. The pair then flap their wings.

Pairs choose a nesting ground a week after arriving at the breeding area, preferring rock crevices. They clear a space and gather materials to build their nest, mostly out of grass and feathers. Each pair lays only one egg per year. Pairs in the same colony usually lay around the same time, but very rarely this occurs over more than one week. The female's sperm storage glands in the oviduct help select spermatozoa during the race to the egg cell. The egg is oval, off-white in color with lavender, gray and brown highlights. Both parents take turns incubating the egg over about 41 days, and spend another forty days raising the chick. The fledgling leaves the nest alone and at night, making its way towards open water, then quickly dives and swims away to begin independent life.

Rises in ocean temperature have increased the reproductive rate of the horned puffin.

Status
The total number of horned puffins is estimated at 1,200,000. 300,000 are located in Asia, while the other 900,000 are located in North America, with a high concentration in the Alaska Peninsula numbering 760,000. In Alaska, nearly 250,000 puffins are distributed in 608 different colonies, the largest being on Suklik Island. There are about 92,000 horned puffins in the Aleutian Islands, while nearly 300,000 are located on the islands and coasts of the Sea of Okhotsk. The Chukchi Sea has a colony of 18,000 puffins at sea level, the largest in the area.

title: Horned puffin


text:
User:Madmaik

Hi there,

I'm working as a database administrator, in my free time I do some martial arts (i.e. Hsing-I and Tong-Bei) and I like to meet with some friends to do pen&paper roleplaying games.

I live in Germany.

title: User:Madmaik


text:
Miles Aircraft

Miles was the name used between 1943 and 1947 to market the aircraft of British engineer Frederick George Miles, who, with his wife – aviator and draughtswoman Maxine "Blossom" Miles (née Forbes-Robertson) – and his brother George Herbert Miles, designed numerous light civil and military aircraft and a range of curious prototypes.

Phillips and Powis
A company was founded in 1928 by Charles Powis and Jack Phillips as Phillips & Powis Aircraft (Reading) Ltd. In 1929 they opened Woodley Aerodrome, near the town of Reading, Berkshire.

In 1936, Rolls-Royce bought into the company. Although aircraft were produced under the Miles name, it was not until 1943 that the firm became Miles Aircraft Limited when Rolls-Royce's interests were bought out.

The company needed to increase production of the Miles Messenger and to do so it took over a former linen mill in Banbridge, County Down, Northern Ireland for the production of components of the aircraft. A hangar at RAF Long Kesh was used for assembly of the aircraft and flight testing was carried out at the airfield. The company moved to Newtownards following the end of the war in 1946.

The company opened the Miles Aeronautical Technical School in 1943 under the directorship of Maxine (Blossom) Miles The school had a "Headmaster", Walter Evans.

Bankruptcy and receivership
In 1947, the company entered receivership following bankruptcy proceedings instigated by Titanine Ltd., in the Chancery Division of the High Court. Titanine supplied Miles with aviation coatings used in the production of the Miles Gemini aircraft. Mr. Justice Wynn-Parry adjourned the petition of Titanine Ltd., for the winding up of Miles Aircraft Ltd., until 19 January 1948, on the grounds that the company had showed prima facie reasons for not yet having formulated a reorganization scheme. The petitioners, creditors for £5,837, were supported by other creditors for £62,000 and opposed by creditors for £200,000. An affidavit put into court showed that subject to audit, a loss of £630,000 had been incurred on 31 October 1947, but that a rescue plan could not be drawn up until the audit was completed. The principal trade creditors were: Blackburn Aircraft Ltd., De La Rue Extrusions Ltd., Smiths Aircraft Instruments Ltd. and the Sperry Gyroscope Co. Ltd. Mr. F. G. Miles announced the payment of the 4% per cent preference dividends out of his own resources of £8,600. After Miles Aircraft had been taken over by financiers in 1947, the design and manufacture of aircraft was ended by the new Board. At this time the company had some £5 million worth of business in hand, including substantial orders for the Messenger and the Gemini.

In 1948 an application by the Board of Trade for the appointment of an inspector to investigate the affairs of Miles Aircraft Ltd. was granted by Mr. Justice Roxburgh. The B.O.T. case was that when a prospectus was issued in March, 1947 (before the accounts for 1946 were published), the directors should reasonably have been expected to know that all was not well with the company, and when, in August, 1947, a dividend of 7% per cent and a bonus of 24% were recommended, they should reasonably have been expected to know that a big loss was being suffered by the company.

Charges were brought against Sir William Malcolm Mount and F. G. Miles. There were 24 charges regarding publication of a Miles Aircraft Ltd prospectus with "false and reckless statements". The trial began on 10 May 1950 at the Old Bailey. After 17 days of sitting, the jury stopped the case against Miles and Sir William, and they were discharged. They had appeared on charges of inducing people to acquire shares in the company by making a misleading forecast and dishonestly concealing a material fact in a prospectus. According to Flight, "Twenty of the original 24 counts were thrown out before the defence was reached. The prosecution alleged that the defendants gave a misleading forecast that for 1947 the profit covering the production of aircraft would have been £75,000, whereas there was a substantial loss. It was alleged that they recklessly made the misleading statement that the company had orders on hand which were sufficient to ensure production for the following two years, and that they dishonestly concealed the fact that a profit for the manufacture of aircraft in 1947 was unlikely." Both men said that they believed every word of the prospectus was true. After the acquittal, an application for costs for £20,000 was disallowed. The aviation assets were purchased by Handley Page as Handley Page Reading Ltd. Handley Page produced the Miles-designed M.60 Marathon as the H.P.R.1 Marathon. The Miles Aeronautical Technical School was taken over by the Reading Technical College. Other products in which Miles had interests included photocopiers; this business became Copycat Ltd, which was acquired by the Nashua Corporation in 1963. The Philidas locking nut unit became an independent company. The bookbinding machinery and actuator production were taken over by a specifically formed company, the Western Manufacturing Estate Ltd, the name "Western" referring to its location on the Woodley aerodrome. This company later merged with the Adamant Engineering Company Ltd. to form the Adwest Group. Miles also manufactured ballpoint pens designed by László Bíró through an associated company, the Miles Martin Pen Co. Ltd.

F. G. Miles Limited
In 1948, F.G. Miles founded F. G. Miles Limited, which continued to produce aircraft under the Miles brand. The company was based on two sites, Redhill Aerodrome and Shoreham Aerodrome. In 1961, the aviation interests were purchased (along with Auster Aircraft Limited) by British Executive and General Aviation Limited (Beagle Aircraft), initially as Beagle-Miles Ltd, with George Herbert Miles as Chief Designer and Technical Director.

The company adopted a group structure with subsidiary companies as follows: Meridian Airmaps Ltd (whose collection of aerial photographs forms part of the English Heritage Archive ), Miles Development Products Ltd, Miles Electronics Ltd, Miles Marine & Structural Plastics Ltd and Jet Tanks Ltd. The group was initially based at Redhill, but moved to Shoreham in 1953. Miles Electronics was involved in the manufacture of flight simulators; this division merged with the UK arm of the Link Trainer flight simulator company and was later acquired by the Singer Corporation. In 1975 Hunting Associated Industries acquired a controlling interest in F. G. Miles Engineering and all its subsidiaries. The company was renamed Hunting Hivolt and Jeremy Miles, the son of Fred Miles (who founded the firm), became a non-executive director on the board. Other companies included Miles HiVolt Ltd and Miles-Dufon Ltd (this company went into administration on 15 April 1980).

Design work between F. G. Miles Ltd and the French company, Hurel-Dubois, resulted in the HDM.105 – a standard Miles Aerovan fitted with an Hurel-Dubois high-aspect-ratio wing. This work led to the Hurel-Dubois HD.34 and the Short Skyvan series of aircraft.

Aircraft designs
The company's earlier aircraft include the Hawk Trainer and its military variant, the Magister, as well as the Messenger and the Gemini. During the Second World War, it produced the Master advanced trainer, as well as the Martinet and Monitor target tugs.

The aircraft designed by Miles were often technologically and aerodynamically advanced for their time; the M.20 emergency production fighter prototype outperformed contemporary Hawker Hurricanes, despite having fixed landing gear. The X Minor was a flying testbed for blended wing-fuselage designs, although the large commercial transport intended to be produced from this research never entered production. The gigantic Miles X Airliner was to seat 55 and have eight engines buried in the wings, driving four sets of contra-rotating props and achieve a range of 3,450 miles.

The Miles Libellula (named after dragonflies) were experimental tandem-wing designs. A fighter prototype M.35, designed to give the pilot a better landing view, and to fit on aircraft carriers without a need for folding wings, was funded and built by the company (with wood) in only six weeks but was rejected by the Ministry of Aircraft Production. A bomber version was designed, and then a prototype ordered for a "high speed bomber" requirement, but that prototype was never built. Instead, the company built a 5/8th scale version M.39B which was sold to the government for research and testing; it was scrapped after being damaged and the bomber procurement had been cancelled. Tandem-wing designs, with a wing at both ends of an aircraft, reduce centre of gravity problems due to fuel or ammunition usage.

The Miles M.52 was a turbojet-powered supersonic research aircraft project that was cancelled before completion.

Aircraft
The following table lists the company number, name, year of first flight and number produced of all Miles aircraft.

 * R.A.E. – Vickers Transonic Research Rocket. The test vehicle was a 3/10-scale model of the Miles E.24/43 design (except for the omission of the distinctive annular air intake of the full-scale aircraft). To maintain the centre of gravity it was necessary to include a large balance weight (almost 1/10 of total all-up weight) in the foremost section of the ogival nose. On 9 October 1948, model A3 (one of three craft built) was successfully launched.[25]

Missiles

 * Miles Hoopla – a surface-to-surface missile project, the Miles Hoopla dates from 1941 to 1943. It was a remotely piloted, high wing light aircraft carrying a 1,000 lb bomb. It was powered by a de Havilland Gipsy Queen engine with a wingspan of 14 feet, and an estimated speed of over 300 mph. It was not a "flying bomb" like the V-1, but was intended to drop its load and return for re-use. Accuracy was not a major consideration as its intended target was to be German cities. Only a mock-up was constructed before the project was cancelled.

Legacy
The Miles Aircraft Collection was established in 1993 for anyone interested in Miles aircraft and related subjects and aims to encourage the preservation of all surviving examples worldwide (ideally in flying condition or otherwise in museums and collections open to the public).

title: Miles Aircraft


text:
.357 Magnum

The .357 Smith & Wesson Magnum, .357 S&W Magnum, .357 Magnum, or 9×33mmR (as it is known in unofficial metric designation) is a smokeless powder cartridge with a 0.357 in bullet diameter. It was created by Elmer Keith, Phillip B. Sharpe, and Douglas B. Wesson of firearm manufacturers Smith & Wesson and Winchester. The .357 Magnum cartridge is notable for its highly effective terminal ballistics.

The .357 Magnum cartridge is based upon Smith & Wesson's earlier .38 Special cartridge. It was introduced in 1935, and its use has since become widespread.

Design

The .357 Magnum was collaboratively developed over a period in the early to mid-1930s by a group of individuals in a direct response to Colt's .38 Super Automatic. At the time, the .38 Super was the only American pistol cartridge capable of defeating automobile cover and the early ballistic vests that were just beginning to emerge in the Interwar period. Tests at the time revealed that those vests defeated any handgun bullet traveling less than about 1000 ft/s. Colt's .38 Super Automatic just edged over that velocity and was able to penetrate car doors and vests that bootleggers and gangsters were employing as cover.

Though .38 Special and .357 Magnum would seem to be different diameter chamberings, they are in fact identical; as at 0.357 inch, they both have the same bullet diameter. The .38 Special nomenclature relates to the previous use of heeled bullets (such as the .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt), which were the same diameter as the case. The only external dimensional difference between .38 Special and .357 magnum is the difference in case length; this was done to prevent accidentally loading a .357 magnum cartridge in to a .38 Special revolver that is not designed for the .357 magnum's higher chamber pressure. Case volume was not a factor in the increase in case length as the .38 Special cartridge was originally a black powder cartridge, and the .357 magnum was developed using only much denser smokeless powder.

Much credit for the .357's early development is given to hunter and experimenter Elmer Keith. Keith's early work in loading the .38 Special to increasingly higher-pressure levels was made possible by the availability of heavy, target-shooting-oriented revolvers like the Smith & Wesson .38-44 "Heavy Duty" and "Outdoorsman", .38-caliber revolvers built on .44-caliber frames. The .38-44 HV load used the .38-Special cartridge loaded to a much higher velocity than standard .38-Special ammunition. The .38-44 revolvers were made by using a .44 Special size gun with the barrel bored to accept .357-caliber bullets (the true bullet diameter of the .38 Special) and the cylinder bored to accept .3801 - .3809 in cartridges (where the name "38 Special" originated). Since the frame, cylinder, and barrel were much stronger than the standard .38 Special components, it was capable of withstanding much higher pressures. The .38-44 HV round, while no longer available, was in most cases the equal of the later .357 Magnum, which works at more than double the pressure of standard .38 Special. The .357 Magnum addresses the safety issues which earlier cartridges had by lengthening the cartridge by approximately 1/8 inch, preventing the high-pressure .357 cartridge from chambering (fitting) in a firearm designed for the shorter, lower-pressure .38 Special. Elmer Keith also contributed the Keith-style bullet, which increased the mass of bullet located outside the cartridge case, while leaving more room inside the case for powder. The Keith bullet also employed a large, flat meplat, thus enabling rapid energy transfer for greater wounding properties. At the same time, this bullet design does not deform like a hollow point, and as a result achieves greater penetration. These characteristics of the Keith bullet make it very suitable for hunting applications as well as for target shooting.

To reassert itself as the leading law-enforcement armament provider, Smith & Wesson developed the .357 Magnum, with Douglas B. Wesson (grandson of co-founder Daniel B. Wesson) leading the effort within Smith & Wesson, along with considerable technical assistance from Phillip B. Sharpe, a member of the technical division staff of the National Rifle Association of America. The new round was developed from Smith & Wesson's existing .38 Special round. It used a different powder load, and ultimately the case was extended by 1/8 inch. The case extension was more a matter of safety than of necessity. Because the .38 Special and the early experimental .357 Magnum cartridges loaded by Keith were identical in physical attributes, it was possible to load an experimental .357 Magnum cartridge into a .38 Special revolver, with potentially disastrous results. Smith & Wesson's solution, of extending the case slightly, made it impossible to chamber the magnum-power round in a gun not designed for the additional pressure. However, although both .38 Special and .357 Magnum will chamber in Colt New Army revolvers in .38 Long Colt, due to the straight-walled chambers, this creates dangerous pressure levels, up to three times what the New Army is designed to withstand.

The choice of bullet for the .357 Magnum cartridge varied during its development. During the development at Smith & Wesson, the original Keith bullet was modified slightly, to the form of the Sharpe bullet, which itself was based upon the Keith bullet, but which had 5/6 of the bearing surface of the Keith bullet, Keith bullets typically being made oversized and sized down. Winchester, however, upon experimenting further during the cartridge development, modified the Sharpe-bullet shape slightly, while keeping the Sharpe contour of the bullet. The final choice of bullet was hence based upon the earlier Keith and Sharpe bullets, while additionally having slight differences from both.

Dimensions
The .357 Magnum has 1.66 milliliter (26.2 grain ) cartridge case capacity.

.357 Magnum maximum C.I.P. cartridge dimensions. All sizes in millimeters (mm)

The cartridge headspaces on the rim of the case. The common rifling twist rate for this cartridge is 476 mm (1 in 18.74 in), six grooves, ø lands = 8.79 mm, ø grooves = 9.02 mm, land width = 2.69 mm and the primer type is small pistol magnum.

According to the C.I.P. rulings, the .357 Magnum cartridge case can handle up to 300 MPa Pmax piezo pressure. In C.I.P.-regulated countries, every pistol cartridge combination has to be proofed at 130% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to certify for sale to consumers. This means that .357 Magnum chambered arms in C.I.P.-regulated countries are currently proof tested at 390 MPa PE piezo pressure.

Performance

This cartridge is regarded by many as an excellent hunting, metallic silhouette, and self-defense round. With proper loadings it can also be effective against large or dangerous game, such as bear and ungulates; however, many consider the larger and more powerful magnum cartridges to be more appropriate, such as the .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, .480 Ruger, and .500 S&W Magnum. Comparatively, the .357 Magnum has less energy than the larger magnum revolver loadings but is smaller in diameter with high velocity allowing for excellent penetration properties. It is a fine small- and medium-game round and is sufficient to hunt deer at reasonable ranges if suitable loadings are used by a competent marksman. For further comparison, the .357 Magnum has a higher velocity at 100 yd than its parent case (.38 Special) has at the muzzle. The .357 Magnum's effectiveness on game is similar to that of the .45 Colt, but with a much flatter trajectory due to its higher velocity. It has been used with success for self-defense, plinking, hunting, or target shooting.

The original .357 Magnum load was a 158 gr bullet with an advertised muzzle velocity of 1525 ft/s and muzzle energy of 816 ftlbf. (Muzzle velocity was taken using a large frame revolver with a fairly long barrel of 8.75 in) Most of today's SAAMI conform loads are fairly mild when compared to the original mid-1930s load. Today's C.I.P. conform loads can duplicate the original mid-1930s load. When using a revolver with a shorter 7 in barrel, today's C.I.P. conform maximum loads with a 158 gr bullet can reach a muzzle velocity of 1502 ft/s.

For a handgun cartridge, the bolt thrust is considerable at C.I.P. conform maximum loads and an important factor in weapons design. The greater the bolt thrust, the stronger the locking mechanism has to be to withstand it. Revolvers chambered in .357 Magnum have the significant advantage of also being able to chamber and fire the shorter and less-powerful .38 Special cartridge. Compared to the .357 Magnum, .38 Special is also lower in cost, recoil, noise, and muzzle flash. The ability to also fire the .38 Special makes .357 revolvers ideal for novice shooters who are not yet used to firing full-power .357 magnum loads but do not want the expense of buying a second lower-powered gun to train with. However, .38 Special ammunition should not generally be used with any .357 magnum semiautomatic handgun or rifle, since such firearms require the larger recoil produced by firing a .357 Magnum round to cycle properly.

The .357 Magnum has also become popular as a "dual-use" cartridge in short, light rifles like the American Old West lever-actions. In a rifle, the bullet will exit the barrel at about 1800 ft/s, making it far more versatile than the .30 Carbine or the .32-20 Winchester. In the 1930s it was found to be very effective against steel car doors and ballistic vests, and metal-penetrating rounds were once popular in the United States among highway patrol and other police organizations. The .357 magnum revolver has been largely replaced by modern, high-capacity semi-automatic pistols for police use, but it is still very popular for backup gun use and among outdoorsmen, security guards, and civilians for hunting, metallic silhouette, target shooting, and self-defense. The 9mm Winchester Magnum, which is also known as the 9×29mm, was developed to duplicate the performance of the .357 Magnum in a semi-automatic pistol, as was the .357 SIG cartridge.

Some common performance parameters are shown in the table below for several .357 Magnum loads. Bullet weights ranging from 100 to 200 gr are common. The 125 gr jacketed hollow point loads are popular for self-defense, whereas the heavier loads are commonly used for hunting. Loads are available with energies typically from 400 and 800 foot-pounds force (542 and 1,085 joules) and can be selected for various applications based on desired use and risk assessments.

''Key: Expansion – expanded bullet diameter (ballistic gelatin) Penetration – penetration depth (ballistic gelatin) PC – permanent cavity volume (ballistic gelatin, FBI method) TSC – temporary stretch cavity volume (ballistic gelatin)

Comparison

In terms of accuracy, the .357 Magnum has at least the same potential for precision shooting as the benchmark .38 Special wadcutter round—indeed, a good .357 Magnum revolver will shoot .38 Special wadcutter ammunition with good results. It is this accuracy and power, and the versatility of also being capable of using less-expensive, milder .38 Special ammunition, that makes a .357 Magnum revolver an excellent gun for many different disciplines, from 20 yd precision shooting to long-range falling-plate events. It is an excellent round for those considering handloading ammunition, as it is economical and consistently performs well.

The .357 Magnum was developed from the earlier .38 Special. This was possible because the .38 Special was introduced in 1898 and originally designed to use black powder, which requires two-to-five times as much powder by volume to produce the same velocity with the same bullet as does the much more efficient smokeless powder. Thus, the .38 Special has a relatively large case capacity, and for lower pressures (121 MPa Pmax piezo pressure). The 9×19mm Parabellum was introduced in 1902 and was originally designed to use smokeless powder, and for higher pressures (235 MPa Pmax piezo pressure). It therefore produces considerably more energy than the .38, despite its case having less than half the powder capacity. Many .38 Special loads use the same powders, in similar charge weights, but because the case is so much larger, light-target loads with fast-burning powders may only fill the case perhaps 1/8 full. Filling the case with slower-burning powders produces much more power, but also much more pressure; far too much pressure for older, smaller-frame revolvers chambered in .38 Special. It was to accommodate these high-pressure, high-power loads that the longer .357 Magnum, together with the stronger revolvers designed to handle it, were developed.

The .357 SIG was developed in 1994 was named "357" to highlight its intended purpose: to duplicate the performance of 125 gr .357 Magnum loads fired from 4 in revolvers, in a cartridge designed to be used in a semi-automatic pistol.

title: .357 Magnum


text:
Talk:Greece–Turkey relations

To-do list Part 2
Here's the leftover parts.

Small uncited parts
*Positive relations: end of Paragraph 1 starting at "whose replacement was with a cheer squad" Response: citation added and adjectives downplayed Elias (talk) 04:26, 9 June 2022 (UTC) *Energy pipelines: end of Paragraph 1 starting at "Turkey would work from 2018" ''Response: I added some citations and edited the text. ''Elias (talk) 04:26, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Some more uncited parts at "In 1999, violent earthquakes" at Positive relations and "This instability over the status" at Energy pipelines. MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Apologies, missed this. Earthquake relations section now improved; energy pipeline was reworded in a different edit and on longer an issue. Elias (talk) 23:42, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Neutrality

 * I suggest that this article is read from all sections (Lead to Timeline) before renomination and fixed for neturality issues. Non-netural wording include "More significantly, Greece lifted its opposition" and "Yet despite the change in relations" in Positive relations that need fixing per MOS:EDITORIAL. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:17, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Per MOS:EDITORIAL, the following words were checked and rewritten if they appeared in a sentence:
 * notably, it should be noted, arguably, interestingly, essentially, utterly, actually, clearly, absolutely, of course, without a doubt, indeed, happily, sadly, tragically, aptly, fortunately, unfortunately, untimely
 * but, despite, however, though, although, furthermore, while
 * I agree someone should read this entire article from start to finish. Every time I look at it I find something new but given how much of this article has now been rewritten by me, it would be good to get fresh eyes. Personally, I feel the above is over 95% of any neutrality issue -- I made a big effort to balance all perspectives, so this colourful language stands out (and has now been corrected) but is not reflective of the overall neutrality.
 * Elias (talk) 03:31, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I've done a complete read of the article and made changes. As no one else is contributing, want to call this work done. Ready for renomination. @GhostRiver can you re-grade the page now? @MrLinkinPark333 are you ok if I renominate? Elias (talk) 05:35, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I suggest citing the two leftover parts I mentioned in Small uncited parts first so they are already covered. I'm glad you went through the article and made additional neutrality fixes :) . MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:04, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. Next? :-) Elias (talk) 23:43, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you're all set to go. Nice work! MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Abdullah Ocalan’s picture
Is it necessary to keep Abdullah Ocalan’s picture on the “Positive relations” section? I suggest removing his picture. He is the head of an illegal and banned terrorist organization after all. It does not add any value to the section but seems like a mockery of the issue. 176.55.17.225 (talk) 10:31, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Yes, we can remove it. Can you suggest several images instead to take its place? Elias (talk) 17:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * How about pictures to do with the 1999 Izmit and Athens earthquakes? It is a good example of humanitarian cooperation. 46.31.112.214 (talk) 12:32, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I like the direction But I would like to see a picture that can add more meaning to the article. As this is an article about Greece-Turkey relations, a picture of Israel helping Greece and that also appears on the twice-linked earthquake diplomacy page is not as useful as others. I picked the Ocalan picture because (a) it was a major event that affected relations (b) there's a lot more to learn about the issue for the reader if they are interested why it matters . A generic picture of rubble that could look like any earthquake does not add anything to the readers knowledge. Elias (talk) 20:58, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Good call. Agreed. 46.31.112.214 (talk) 11:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

"People moving across the border of both nations are a common sight and frequent cause of incidents"
I would suggest a different wording than of current version. The people moving across are not the cause of incidents. Cinadon36 13:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Agreed. That is an example of me trying to consolidate multiple news reports on the page into one sentence. Ideally, a secondary source is used. As for how this is written, what do you suggest? Elias (talk) 17:45, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I am not sure, I cant tell. It is not easy. Cinadon36 04:49, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Heavy reliance on primary sources and newspaper articles.
There is a heavy reliance on primary sources in current version. . Greek Ministry of FA and Turkish consulate general, are primary sources. Also, despite significant literature at peer reviewed journals, many newspaper articles are in use. Cinadon36 13:58, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

 * That's correct. Prior to this year, the article was mostly a list of news items. When I rewrote the article this year, I preserved all content as best I could and would remove news articles if I found better sources only (or if they were just inappropriate).
 * I used the Greek Ministry and Turkish ministry to confirm what they call issues in their relations, which is relevant given this is a page of government relations. It helps more with narrative than evidence. For the consulates, I also used goverment website which I believe is most appropriate. Elias (talk) 17:44, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * My advice would be to drop all primary sources. You might use few of them just as an adjunct to secondary sources. It is crucial not to rely on primary sources, especially on this kind of subjects. They are full of fallacious reasoning and serving propaganda purposes. Cinadon36 04:48, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I get that, but when these two competing countries say the same thing about issues, there's truth there. When it comes to consulates, there is nothing dangerous about referring to a government website? I appreciate you are advocating for what is a standard Wikipedia position but inn this use case I do not think it applies. Elias (talk) 22:01, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no issue with primary sources so long as they are verifiable. BackwardsJetwash (talk) 09:54, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Secondary sources put things into context. Anyways the policy of wp is clear PST.Cinadon36 11:03, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Secondary sources certainly put things into context. This is what the article does. But to identify what topics to research to justify adding secondary sources in the first place, something is needed to set the agenda.
 * As this is an article about the government relations between two countries, the authority on what are issues, government positions, and what are current consulates are Greece and Turkey's government publications.
 * Regarding PST, "A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge."
 * the consulates can be validated to their websites, which are the primary sources in question. Given consulates can change with short notice, only governments have the most correct facts and can be validated
 * The issues can be validated from the governments. Yes, there is misinformation there (ie, Turkey claims Greeks never had a presence in Cyprus) but this is simply to set the narrative of the article and secondary sources are used in the body of the article to expand on the issues. To put this is a different context, it would be bizarre if a secondary source was used to set the narrative of the article instead and the government websites made no mention of the issue. Or if an issue was mentioned in a government website, but not in a secondary source, the source would not be as credible.
 * I am by no means saying we should not add secondary sources for the above. I'm simply saying the above are adequate and merit inclusion.
 * I agree otherwise there should be no other use of government websites on this website unless it is calling out a government's position. (This occurs twice: one section which says "the legality of which is challenged by Turkey" which uses the Turkish government page and another "Lesser incidents often occur where both sides still exchange fire" which links to a Greek government announcement along with other sources)
 * If you or anyone disagrees and think this is not appropriate, then we can add this as needing a revision. Elias (talk) Elias (talk) 03:53, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

To do list
The following are a list of issues that have been identified that need to be corrected as discussed on User_talk:AirshipJungleman29

The article consistently presents opinions from sources as fact. The article does not follow the recommendations outlined at WP:NPOV, specifically WP:IMPARTIAL. Examples * "There was a lot of progress but ultimately not on the issues that mattered."
 * "Greece's fear, often explicitly communicated by Turkey's politicians in the media, is that Turkey wants to renegotiate borders otherwise determined by international law." This one is sourced entirely by too many communications by Turkey's politicians, when in reality the source should talk about Greece's fear. Total WP:OR.
 * "In both cases, and in the words of former Greek prime minister George Papandreou, the respective nations would benefit if they treated the minorities as citizens not foreigners."
 * " Greece's hesitance could be solved if the Mufti's were stripped of authority of jurisdiction. Turkey's precondition to open the Halki Seminary is considered unnecessary: it's purely a political decision."

The lead is a problem * The first paragraph should "clearly explain the subject so that the reader is prepared for the greater level of detail that follows. "Greece and Turkey have a competitive relationship with a long history and complex issues", reads like the opening sentence of a history writing project * The sentence "Greece and Turkey since their formation have used real and imagined trauma of each other to justify their nationalism" introduces three topics (their formation, real and imagined trauma, and nationalism) which are never talked about elswhere in the lead. This is a  contravention of MOS:INTRO — there should be no hinting at concepts discussed later in the article. The lead should also cover the article's most important points, yet there is no summarisation of the Background and History sections except for the two words "long history". This is not sufficient.

Words to watch
 * Refer to MOS:EDITORIAL and MOS:REALTIME.
 * Spelling and grammar issues

Elias (talk) 21:32, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

 * A new revision exists to resolve the two issues identified in the lead. Elias (talk) 05:04, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi @Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise, I understand why you reverted that edit of the first sentence I did to comply with @AirshipJungleman29's call out of MOS:INTRO.
 * That said, I'm not sure how to do this. Can you or someone recommend how we talk about the content in Background and History in the intro? Elias (talk) 15:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The sentence "Greece and Turkey since their formation have used real and imagined trauma of each other to justify their nationalism" introduces three topics (their formation, real and imagined trauma, and nationalism) which are never talked about elswhere in the lead.
 * This has now been addressed by discussing the formation of both countries in the first paragraph and the listing of major events that constitute trauma and nationalism such as the Population exchange between Greece and Turkey, the Varlık Vergisi, the Istanbul pogrom and Cypriot intercommunal violence.
 * There should be no hinting at concepts discussed later in the article.
 * Summary style of the major points is employed, there is no hinting that remains.
 * The lead should also cover the article's most important points
 * I believe the lead achieves this. In discusses the before mention 'trauma' and nationalism; it lists the issues that form the basis of their disputes such as the UNCLOS treaty, decolonisation of Cyprus, and the addition of the Dodecanese to Greece's territory; it also includes territory disputes over the sea and air, minority rights, and Turkey's relationship with the European Union and Cyprus; Control over energy pipelines.
 * There is no summarisation of the Background and History sections except for the two words "long history". This is not sufficient.
 * Background has now been added as a sub-heading under history
 * The reference to the Ottoman Empire and Greece as a separate Wikipedia page, which previously was on this page, I believe covers off on the "long history" point. The history since Turkey's formation, which is what this page is now about, are referenced otherwise with all the major points mentioned earlier.
 * @User_talk:AirshipJungleman29 can you please confirm if my edits now address these specific points you made? Elias (talk) 04:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph should "clearly explain the subject so that the reader is prepared for the greater level of detail that follows. "Greece and Turkey have a competitive relationship with a long history and complex issues", reads like the opening sentence of a history writing project
 * This has now been removed. It was an attempt at summarizing but understand how this appears to be editorialising. Elias (talk) 04:46, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The article consistently presents opinions from sources as fact. The following sentences were identified as issues
 * "There was a lot of progress but ultimately not on the issues that mattered." this has now been rewritten to show it's an opinion from a credible source. According to Dr R. Craig Nation in a report commissioned by a US military think tank, there was a lot of progress but ultimately not on the issues that mattered.
 * ""Greece's fear, often explicitly communicated by Turkey's politicians in the media, is that Turkey wants to renegotiate borders otherwise determined by international law.". This has been removed.
 * " Greece's hesitance could be solved if the Mufti's were stripped of authority of jurisdiction. Turkey's precondition to open the Halki Seminary is considered unnecessary: it's purely a political decision." This has been removed

Elias (talk) 03:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Greece–Turkey relations


text:
Uncontrolled format string

Uncontrolled format string is a type of code injection vulnerability discovered around 1989 that can be used in security exploits. Originally thought harmless, format string exploits can be used to crash a program or to execute harmful code. The problem stems from the use of unchecked user input as the format string parameter in certain C functions that perform formatting, such as. A malicious user may use the  and   format tokens, among others, to print data from the call stack or possibly other locations in memory. One may also write arbitrary data to arbitrary locations using the  format token, which commands   and similar functions to write the number of bytes formatted to an address stored on the stack.

Details
A typical exploit uses a combination of these techniques to take control of the instruction pointer (IP) of a process, for example by forcing a program to overwrite the address of a library function or the return address on the stack with a pointer to some malicious shellcode. The padding parameters to format specifiers are used to control the number of bytes output and the  token is used to pop bytes from the stack until the beginning of the format string itself is reached. The start of the format string is crafted to contain the address that the  format token can then overwrite with the address of the malicious code to execute.

This is a common vulnerability because format bugs were previously thought harmless and resulted in vulnerabilities in many common tools. MITRE's CVE project lists roughly 500 vulnerable programs as of June 2007, and a trend analysis ranks it the 9th most-reported vulnerability type between 2001 and 2006.

Format string bugs most commonly appear when a programmer wishes to output a string containing user supplied data (either to a file, to a buffer, or to the user). The programmer may mistakenly write  instead of. The first version interprets  as a format string, and parses any formatting instructions it may contain. The second version simply prints a string to the screen, as the programmer intended. Both versions behave identically in the absence of format specifiers in the string, which makes it easy for the mistake to go unnoticed by the developer.

Format bugs arise because C's argument passing conventions are not type-safe. In particular, the  mechanism allows functions to accept any number of arguments (e.g.  ) by "popping" as many arguments off the call stack as they wish, trusting the early arguments to indicate how many additional arguments are to be popped, and of what types.

Format string bugs can occur in other programming languages besides C, such as Perl, although they appear with less frequency and usually cannot be exploited to execute code of the attacker's choice.

History
Format bugs were first noted in 1989 by the fuzz testing work done at the University of Wisconsin, which discovered an "interaction effect" in the C shell (csh) between its command history mechanism and an error routine that assumed safe string input.

The use of format string bugs as an attack vector was discovered in September 1999 by Tymm Twillman during a security audit of the ProFTPD daemon. The audit uncovered an  that directly passed user-generated data without a format string. Extensive tests with contrived arguments to printf-style functions showed that use of this for privilege escalation was possible. This led to the first posting in September 1999 on the Bugtraq mailing list regarding this class of vulnerabilities, including a basic exploit. It was still several months, however, before the security community became aware of the full dangers of format string vulnerabilities as exploits for other software using this method began to surface. The first exploits that brought the issue to common awareness (by providing remote root access via code execution) were published simultaneously on the Bugtraq list in June 2000 by Przemysław Frasunek and a person using the nickname tf8. They were shortly followed by an explanation, posted by a person using the nickname lamagra. "Format bugs" was posted to the Bugtraq list by Pascal Bouchareine in July 2000. The seminal paper "Format String Attacks" by Tim Newsham was published in September 2000 and other detailed technical explanation papers were published in September 2001 such as Exploiting Format String Vulnerabilities, by team Teso.

Prevention in compilers
Many compilers can statically check format strings and produce warnings for dangerous or suspect formats. In the GNU Compiler Collection, the relevant compiler flags are,, ,  ,  ,  , and.

Most of these are only useful for detecting bad format strings that are known at compile-time. If the format string may come from the user or from a source external to the application, the application must validate the format string before using it. Care must also be taken if the application generates or selects format strings on the fly. If the GNU C library is used, the  parameter can be used to detect certain types of attacks occurring at run-time. The  check is more stringent.

Detection
Contrary to many other security issues, the root cause of format string vulnerabilities is relatively easy to detect in x86-compiled executables: For -family functions, proper use implies a separate argument for the format string and the arguments to be formatted. Faulty uses of such functions can be spotted by simply counting the number of arguments passed to the function; an "argument deficiency" is then a strong indicator that the function was misused.

Detection in x86-compiled binaries
Counting the number of arguments is often made easy on x86 due to a calling convention where the caller removes the arguments that were pushed onto the stack by adding to the stack pointer after the call, so a simple examination of the stack correction yields the number of arguments passed to the -family function.'

title: Uncontrolled format string


text:
User talk:Manilabae

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has now been removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing material in articles will normally be removed quickly. Please see the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing here. Thanks. Lupo 12:18, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Manilabae


text:
Talk:Mount Kosciuszko

pronunciation
!!! YOU MORRONS  ... FOR FOREIGNERS : (COST-YOU-SHKO) BOOYAH !!! and dont think.. it is the most simple and managable Explanation ... Jezus I'm the first to thought it...??? it's sad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.117.218.62 (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Re.: It should also be noted that the common Australian pronunciation of Kosciuszko, "koz-ee-os-koe", is quite different from the pronunciation in Polish. What is the Polish pronunciation? D.D. 12:20, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Re.: "What is the Polish pronunciation?" It's really impossible to show without hearing it (and even then it is difficult to pronounce for English speakers), the closest would be "Kosh-choosh-koh". The vowels are a bit different and there's no 'sz' sound in English.

I think a better way to show the English pronunciation would be "kozzy osko". MagdaBudzynowska 03:44, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Is it really pronounced as /kɒz.iˈɒs.kəʊ/? It's quite unusual for "u" to be pronounced as /ɒ/, dictionary lists the two pronunciations /ˌkɒs.iˈʌs.kəʊ/ and /ˌkɒs.kiˈʌs.kəʊ/ (with /ʌ/ in the third syllable). Also the trigraph "sci" pronounced as /zi/ instead of common /si/ looks a bit strange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egg-oh-ease-teak (talk • contribs) 06:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The pronunciation is now in the Kosciuszko National Park article, but I agree that it's weird for u to be pronounced as . Anyway, in Australian the phoneme (as in stop) is pronounced as, and the  phoneme (as in but) is pronounced as . In the video that is given as a reference, Kosciuszko is pronounced as  (more or less), indicating that the u is pronounced as the  phoneme. I changed the pronunciation accordingly. — Eru·tuon 05:47, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

On a related note, the article fails to mention the nickname of Kossy or Kozzie et al — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.71.154 (talk) 06:55, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

I see that there is some editing of the pronounciation again. For what it is worth, I (born and bred in AU for sixty years), and my partner (born in the UK but here since 6 years old), both pronounce it as "koz-ee-os-koe" / "kozzy osko". Aoziwe (talk) 10:54, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I reckon there's a bit of a "u" sound to the third syllable in the way I hear a lot of people say it, like the "u" in "up". It might be a regional thing. I'm from Victoria, and spend a lot of time with people who spend a lot of their time in the snowfields, where using the name is probably a little more common. HiLo48 (talk) 21:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Aboriginal name
There is affair about renaming the name to aboriginal name. As i've heard, no aborigines were living here earlier before English speaking settlers, though... Could somebody explain the matter in article? 150.254.31.167 08:17, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How do you know no Aboriginal peopel were on Mt Kosciusko pre Europeans? I doubt if anyone lived on this hill in recent prehistoric times because of climate but the hill would have been visted regularly by Aboriginal people before the arrival of the Europeans.

The translation of all aboriginal names as 'Table Top Mountain' is somewhat odd (the reference dates from 1885). Surely the aborigines did not use tables? Why then would they name a mountain after one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.129.45.190 (talk) 01:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Name swap with Mt Townsend
Is this actually true? :"Various measurements of the peak originally called by that name showed it to be slightly lower than its neighbour, Mount Townsend, and the names were thereupon transposed by the New South Wales Lands Department, so that Mount Kosciusko still remains the highest peak of Australia". A quick google search doesn't locate any supporting evidence. A supporting reference would be useful.
 * It's lifted verbatim from the Year Book Australia 1909 ( - this link now accompanies the statement in the article). I don't know whether it's true though. Nurg 05:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It is true. I have copies of the original maps that show the swap.

I've heard it said that the NSW authorities always knew which was highest, but that Victorian surveyers used what they thought was Mount Kosciusko (but was actually Mount Townsend) as a base line for Victorian maps, which has the ring of truth, but I can't remember the source.--Grahamec 07:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm confused.

Mount Townsend and Mount Kosciuszko don't actually look alike. So how does the story about looking like the mound in Poland hold true if the names of the mountains were transposed? I'm not trying to be difficult, but it does seem to be a flaw.

The Wikipedia page for Mt Townsend gives a direct link to the NSW Year book, and dates the name swap to 1892. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amosshapira (talk • contribs) 13:43, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

see: http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6a446874c613a955ca2569e300158043?OpenDocument  about this issue.

That *is* the 1910 Year Book I mention below. It's a secondary source and it doesn't give a date for when the NSW Department of Lands made this decision. A record of the actual decision, with the date, would be more persuasive.

Can whoever is the super-editor of this page, and made the most recent revisions (mdW0, or similar), have a look again at the "corrections" you've made, and maybe edit it a bit..? Because at the moment, the bit you've written about the name swap urban legend, and "re-educating the population", umm, doesn't quite make sense...

Just needs a re-work, I think... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.235.162 (talk) 07:50, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Added a dubious tag
The Wikipedia article on Pawel Strzelecki has the story Grahamec mentions above. According to it, Victorian maps mixed up Mt Kosciuszko and Mt Townsend, but that was never a problem in NSW. So the "swap" was the correction of an error in the Victorian maps. The source for this is "Mountain Systems (Orography) of Australia, Year Book Australia 1910, Australian Bureau of Statistics". The source for the "swap" in this article is "Mountain systems of Australia". Year Book Australia, 1901-1909. Australian Bureau of Statistics.".

I've put a dubious tag on the statement in this article. I think it should stay until we get another corroborating source one way or the other. Paul Foxworthy (talk) 05:05, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

The 1910 Year Book does indeed say the names were "transposed" by NSW Lands Department. . The Year Book doesn't say when that happened. Can anyone find a primary source for that?

Not definitive, but: and  both reference an article by Matt Smith in Wild (wild.com.au) magazine issue 135 published Friday 19th April 2013.

The plot thickens...

http://mtkosciuszko.org.au/english/strzelecki-kosciuszko.htm says:

"About 1870 the Survey Department of Victoria made a triangulation of these mountains and, on the maps subsequently printed, attached the name „Mount Kosciusko (Ramshed)” to the peak we now call Mount Townsend.

Then, 15 years later still (1855) [sic - see below], the scientist, Dr R. von Lendenfeld, announced to the world that this peak (our Townsend), which he called Mueller's peak, was not the highest in Australia, but that the honour should be given to another peak (Kosciusko), which he named Mount Townsend after Government surveyor. Lendenfeld's report is still quoted as evidence of Strzelecki's supported mistake.

For the refutation of Lendenfeld's claims, and the final clearing up of a centaury-old mystery, were are indebted to the recent painstaking researches of Mr. B. T. Dowd, of the lands Department, New South Wales, which have gone far to elucidate what he aptly describes as a „cartographical tangle”.

Mr. Dowd in an extremely valuable addendum to Mr. Havard's paper on Strzelecki, says that a copy of the polish explorer's original route plan (it is in the possession of the lands Department and is reproduced on p.38) makes it impossible to ascertain with certainty the exact peak climbed by Strzelecki, as the route line marked by the explorer stops at what appears to be the foot of the mountains.

There is, however, in the archives of the Department the first official plan of the Country of Selwyn (1851) drawn and signed by the New South Wales Government surveyor, Thomas Townsend, after his ascent of both Kosciusko and Townsend in 1846-47, five years after Strzelecki. On this plan Townsend shows the name „Mount Kosciusko” against the peak which is in the same geographical position as the Mount Kosciusko of which in we know. Mount Kosciusko was also given its correct geographical position in the first official country map of Wallace, printed in 1860, and, in fact, in all N.S.W. official maps."

Maybe 1885 is intended in the quote above. But 1855 is 15 years after Strzelecki named Kosciuszko, so maybe 1855 is correct, and the "15 years later still" is poorly worded.

Meanwhile http://ianfrasertalkingnaturally.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/kosciuszko-national-park-1-on-top-of.html has an unsourced assertion "For a short time in the 1890s the 'real' Kosciuszko was named Townsend (after the surveyor who first mapped the range), but in 1892 the names were officially switched to honour Strzelecki's intention."

"hike" Australian English?
Is "hike" Australian English? Andjam 08:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

yes definately Maelgwn 12:06, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Easiest Route
I think the 'Easiest Route' being listed as 'Hike' is wrong. To me, the chairlift access to near the top, and then a short boardwalk to the actual summit is easier. Especially if you stop off at the Bar & Grill up near the top.... BryanJones 07:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Walk, dawdle, stroll, ramble ??? Be Bold! ...maelgwntalk 09:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * From Thredbo using the chairlift to the top of the range, and then the return walk of 13km takes 4-6 hours. My 7 year old did it in 5 hours with lunch breaks and occasional breaks. The track from Charlotte Pass is much longer. I did this by bicycle with 2 kids and this took about 9 hours - but that was in the early 1990's when there was still serious snow drifts in summer to slow down the pace.--Takver (talk) 16:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Higher Australian mountains
Firstly, I don't see how there could be a problem with saying Kosciuszko is the highest mountain on the mainland, as the status of the higher mountains is (or at least should be) spelt out later in the article, which is a better option than making any definitive statements about what is or isn't in Australia.

Macquarie Island, which Intelligent Mr Toad mentioned in his edit summary, does not have a higher mountain and so is completely irrelevant, but is actually part of Tasmania, and so definitely included in the Commonwealth. The Antartic Territory is debatable, as Australia has a treaty obligation not to assert full sovereignty south of 60 degrees. The Heard and MacDonald Islands are recognised as an Australian Territory, often referred to as an external territory, but I think you will find that, despite the ways in which each territory has its own special status, the federal government doesn't distinguish between "internal" and "external" territories when talking about territories as a whole. To say they are not part of the Commonwealth of Australia is overly simplistic. JPD (talk) 16:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

To most readers the statement "Kosciuszko is the highest mountain on the mainland" implies that there is a higher mountain in Tasmania, which there isn't. The Commonwealth of Australia consists of the six states, the two mainland territories, and such offshore islands as are part of the respective states, such as Lord Howe Island. It does NOT include the external territories such as Heard Island or the Australian Antarctic Territory (AAT). Does the Australia article give the land area of Australia as though the AAT was part of Australia? It does not. The simple correct statement is "Kosciuszko is the highest mountain in Australia (not including its external territories)". I will amend the article accordingly. Intelligent Mr Toad 06:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I guess the notion of external territories has enough use to be acceptable, even if it is not official. By the way, though, there are three mainland territories, that would definitely be included in any definition of the Commonwealth. JPD (talk) 09:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Check of mountain overlays on image please
Can some one check the marked positions of Mount Kosciuszko,, and Mount Townsend, , on the winter photograph taken from Kangaroo Ridge please. I am not sure that I have got them correct. Ronnam (talk) 05:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

 * The labelling on that photo is 100% wrong and I will try to amend it.  The point labelled 1 is North Ramshead.   The summit of Mt Kosciuszko is just right of centre and is entirely obscured by clouds.  The visible peak in the centre of the photo is the Etheridge Range.   Mt Townsend is NOT visible from this location,  it is behind the large round hill on the right hand side of the photo, Mt Clarke.Eregli bob (talk) 13:26, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I have sorted out the labelling on this photo so it is correct now.   However it is not an ideal photo because the summit of Mt Kosciuszko is entirely obscured by clouds and not actually visible in the photo.Eregli bob (talk) 13:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Gallery: (picture entitled) "Thredbo from the mountain"
Whilst this is a quality picture of Thredbo village, the caption implies that this is what you see from Kosciuszko mountain. Yesterday I walked from the top of the Kosciuszko Express chair lift at Thredbo to the summit of Mt. Kosciuszko. I assure you once you walk around/past the Eagles Nest building situated at the top of the lift, you can no longer see the village at any stage along the track that heads to the summit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yytthkb (talk • contribs) 10:35, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Height
The mountain's height is now (on new maps, see Perisher Valley 8525-2S 1:25 000, First Edition 2001) shown as 2229m, rather than 2228m, and I have amended the article. I'm not sure of the reason for the change (from 2228m). Perhaps it's due to the stone plinth now atop the mountain, or simply a more accurate measurement.

Carltzau (talk) 11:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Until the Government or any other reliable site update the height it stays as 2228 metres since I or any one else know how reliable that map is (Not all maps are reliable). Bidgee (talk) 12:13, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Could someone find a reference for the height? I don't see 2228 being substantiated anywhere in the article, so Carlzau probably has the strongest case for 2229. ROxBo (talk) 03:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't cite these as sources within the article but and  is the best I can find (as the Government link is now dead :. Bidgee (talk) 05:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Coast to Kosciuszko
The following is the last paragraph of the Reaching the summit section

'''Each year in December, an ultramarathon running race called Coast to Kosciuszko (aka C2K) ascends to the top of Mt Kosciuszko after starting 246 kilometres (153 mi) away from the beach. Its first year was in 2004 and Paul Every pioneered the race.'''

For starters, it doesn't belong in that section. There are no references. The writing is a little sloppy. I have no idea what Paul Every actually did.

Does it belong? Does anyone know more about it? References? HiLo48 (talk) 09:03, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Gallery
Should there be a gallery at the base of the page? A lot of pages remove galleries... --Grapeman4 (talk) 06:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Images
Another Image should be in the infobox. The current pic is extremely ugly and I will change it to. Fell Free to Oppose mydogeatsbetter (talk) 08:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm pretty sure that for mountain infobox images, the preference is for images of the mountain if we have one, rather than photos taken from the peak. -- Racer X11 Talk to me Stalk me  10:12, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Paul or Paweł?
re:

 * Paweł Strzelecki Mount Kościuszko: 55 GBook hits
 * Paweł Strzelecki Mount Kościuszko: 147 GBook hits

It does seem that this explorer's name is often (through not always) Anglicized. I don't like it, but COMMONNAME and so on, I don't think this is an issue worth pressing. This article is indeed focused on Australia, and so we can leave the Anglicized name. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * He maybe known as Paweł Strzelecki in Poland but in Australia he is known as Paul Strzelecki. Australian Dictionary of Biography, Trove (National Library of Australia), Monument Australia are just one of many who use Paul and not Paweł. Bidgee (talk) 02:15, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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There is literally not a picture of Mt Kosciuszko on this article (July 2021)
The first photo you see at the top is of Mt Clark with Kosciuszko only just visible on the far left.

Further down there is a photo which would have Kosciuszko but it's obscured by cloud.

Then there was a photo labeled Mt Kosciuszko from Guthega which is clearly Mt Twynam from Guthega (which I have now removed).

There are also several photos from the summit (but not off the summit) and photos of nearby mountains.

The closest to a straight forward photo of the mountain is one where it is nearly completely obscured by etheridge ridge, the first photo where it's almost out of the frame and another of the southern ridge of Kosciuszko.

I don't have a good photo but if you're reading this and you've got a straight forward photo of the summit feel free to add it.

Sources 6 and 19
Sources 6 and 19 are referencing the same website. Should the citations be merged? The most signifacnt difference between them is the access dates: 06 Sep 2020 and 15 Jun 2019, respectively. Popplio Zach (talk) 04:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

That park kill shoots wild horses
park kills and shoots wild horses DONT VISIT 2605:8D80:6E4:1C15:838F:46AD:95B8:D444 (talk) 18:33, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Parks management uses a range of approaches to eliminate imported, feral pest animals, including horses, so that the park retains the Australian characteristics an Australian national park needs to have. HiLo48 (talk) 22:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Kosciuszko