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Fairchild C-123 Provider

The Fairchild C-123 Provider is an American military transport aircraft designed by Chase Aircraft and built by Fairchild Aircraft for the U.S. Air Force. In addition to its USAF service, which included later service with the Air Force Reserve and the Air National Guard, it went on to serve the U.S. Coast Guard and various air forces in Southeast Asia. During the War in Vietnam, the C-123 was used to deliver supplies, to evacuate the wounded, for agent insertions behind enemy lines, and was also used to spray Agent Orange.

Design and development

The C-123 Provider was designed originally as an assault glider aircraft for the United States Air Force (USAF) by Chase Aircraft as the XCG-20 (Chase designation MS-8 Avitruc) Two powered variants of the XCG-20 were developed during the early 1950s, as the XC-123 and XC-123A. The only difference were the class of engines used. The XC-123 used two Pratt & Whitney R-2800-23 air-cooled radial piston engines, while the XC-123A was fitted with four General Electric J47-GE-11 turbojets, in two pods. The XC-123A also has the distinction, while being experimental, of being the first USAF's jet-powered military transport. While the piston-powered XC-123 was initially well-regarded for its ruggedness,reliability, and its ability to operate from short and unimproved airstrips, the turbojet-powered XC-123A – designed for high-speed transport between USAF bases for critical parts and personnel – was found unable to operate from short and rough airstrips. There was also no practical speed advantage due to the wing and fuselage design, and a drastic reduction in range. Only the one turbojet-powered test and evaluation version was built.

While the United States Air Force was interested in placing an order for the new transport, Chase did not have the production capacity to meet the Air Force's needs, and sought a partner to handle production of the new aircraft. By 1953, Henry J. Kaiser purchased a majority share in Chase Aircraft, feeling that after having completed C-119s for Fairchild under contract, he could take control of the impending C-123 contract. Two airframes were completed at Kaiser's Willow Run factory in Ypsilanti, Michigan, before a pricing scandal that led to Kaiser's being told that no further contracts with him would be honored. The C-123 contract was put up for bid, and the two completed airframes scrapped. The contract was finally awarded to Fairchild Engine and Airplane, who assumed production of the former Chase C-123B, a refined version of the XC-123. Before turning production over to Fairchild, Chase originally named their C-123B the AVITRUC but it never stuck.

Operational history
The first recipients of C-123 aircraft were USAF transport units, soon followed by the U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) which used the aircraft for search and rescue (SAR) missions, and even the U.S. Air Force Demonstration Team, the "Thunderbirds," used C-123s for a time as a logistics support aircraft for transporting the team's ground crews and equipment. The type would also be widely exported under various U.S. military assistance programs, directly from USAF stocks. A C-123 was used to transport President John F. Kennedy's limousine during his November, 1963, Texas tour.

The C-123 was nearly ignored by the USAF for service in Vietnam, but a political rivalry with the U.S. Army and the Army's use of the CV-2 Caribou and later pre-production order for the de Havilland Canada C-8 Buffalo, led to a decision to deploy C-123s there. To compete with the well-performing CV-2, the USAF and Fairchild furthered development on the C-123 to allow it to do similar work on short runways. This additional development increased the utility of the aircraft and its variants to allow it to perform a number of unique tasks, including the HC-123B which operated with the USCG fitted with additional radar equipment for search and rescue missions through 1971, and the C-123J which was fitted with retractable skis for operations in Greenland and Alaska on compacted snow runways.

By 1962, the C-123K variant aircraft was evaluated for operations in Southeast Asia and their stellar performance led the Air Force to upgrade 180 of the C-123B aircraft to the new C-123K standard, which featured auxiliary jet pods underneath the wings, and anti-skid brakes. In 1968, the aircraft helped resupply troops in Khe Sanh, Vietnam, during a three-month siege by North Vietnam.

A number of C-123s were configured as VIP transports, including General William Westmoreland's White Whale. The C-123 also gained notoriety for its use in "Operation Ranch Hand" defoliation operations in Vietnam. Oddly enough, the USAF had officially chosen not to procure the VC-123C VIP transport, opting instead for the Convair VC-131D.

The first C-123s to reach South Vietnam were part of the USAF's Special Aerial Spray Flight, as part of Operation Ranch Hand tasked with defoliating the jungle in order to deny rebels their traditional hiding places. These aircraft began their operations at the end of 1961. Aircraft fitted with spraying equipment were given the U prefix as a role modifier, with the most common types being the UC-123B and the UC-123K. Aircraft configured for this use were the last to see military service, in the control of outbreaks of insect-borne disease. The C-123 was also used as "jump aircraft" for U.S. Army Airborne students located at Lawson Army Airfield, Fort Benning, Georgia from the early 1970s through the early 1980s. This aircraft was used in conjunction with the Lockheed C-130 Hercules and Lockheed C-141 Starlifter.

In 1958, the U.S. Coast Guard received its first HC-123B from the USAF, followed by seven more in 1961. Prior to the Vietnam War the C-123B was utilized for a multitude of missions such as a troop carrier, medivac transport, and support missions from short, minimally-prepared landing strips. Installation of a dome on the nose of the aircraft accommodated a large radar allowing the plane to meet the requirements for search and rescue and long range flight over water. The Coast Guard crewed the aircraft with a complement of five: two officers serving as the pilot and copilot, augmented by an enlisted flight mechanic, an enlisted navigator, and an enlisted loadmaster. The HC-123B's role in the Coast Guard was slowly replaced by the longer-ranged Coast Guard HC-130 aircraft during the 1960s and 1970s as those newer airframes came on line. In 1972 the final C-123B in the U.S Coast Guards' Inventory was retired.

With the end of the Vietnam War, remaining C-123Ks and UC-123Ks were transferred to tactical airlift units of the Air Force Reserve (AFRES) and the Air National Guard (ANG) that were operationally-gained by Tactical Air Command (TAC) before 1975 and Military Airlift Command (MAC) after 1975.

The 302nd Tactical Airlift Wing at Rickenbacker AFB (later Rickenbacker ANGB), Ohio, flew the last UC-123Ks Providers in operational service before being converted to the Lockheed C-130 Hercules. Known as the Special Spray Flight, these aircraft were used to control insect-borne diseases, with missions to Alaska, South America, and Guam being among the humanitarian missions performed by this Air Force Reserve unit.

The final examples of the C-123 in active U.S. military service were retired from the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard in the early 1980s. Some airframes were transferred to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for test and evaluation programs while others were transferred to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) for miscellaneous programs. These aircraft were also retired by the end of the 1990s.

Experimental projects

In 1954, the YC-123D, formerly the XC-123A prototype, flew in its modified state after being converted by Stroukoff Aircraft. While the most obvious change from the original XC-123A was the switch of engines (to two 3500 hp Wright Turbo Compound R3350-89A radial engines, turning four-blade, thirteen foot Aeroproducts constant-speed fully feathering propellers), the YC-123D also had a boundary layer control system fitted. This system directs air from the engines at high speed over the top of the wing, making the wing act as if the aircraft is flying at a higher airspeed. As a result, the YC-123D had a greatly reduced takeoff and landing distance. Compared to the C-123B, the YC-123D could land in 755 feet instead of 1,200, and takeoff with only 850 ft of runway instead of 1,950, with a 50,000 lb total weight.

In 1955, Stroukoff, under contract from the USAF, produced a single YC-123E, designed to be able to take off from any surface, and also equipped with BLC. The new aircraft also featured Stroukoff's Pantobase system, combining a ski system with a sealed fuselage and wing mounted floats, while retaining its normal landing gear. The skis worked both on snow and water, and the system effectively allowed the aircraft to land on water, land, snow or ice.

In 1956, the USAF awarded a contract to Fairchild to design an improved version of the C-123 under the designation C-136, but the contract was cancelled before the aircraft was built.

At much the same time, the YC-123H was under development, the product of a Fairchild modification program started in 1956 and completed in 1957. A "Jet Augmentation Program" for existing C-123Bs had been initiated in 1955 at the behest of the USAF, and in the YC-123H contract the USAF expanded it to allow the mounting of two pod-mounted General Electric J85 turbojets.

In 1979, the Royal Thai government, seeking to extend the life of their C-123 fleet, placed a contract with the Mancro Aircraft Company, supported by the USAF, to convert a single C-123B to turboprop powerplants. Allison T56-A-7 turboprops were used and by the time the aircraft, dubbed C-123T, was complete it had new "wet" wings, an auxiliary power unit (APU) to assist with power movement of the control surfaces, and a heating system for the cargo compartments that also fed a new de-icing system. Budgetary restrictions forced the Thai government to abandon the program in 1981, and with a lack of interested parties development of the C-123T stopped. However, it concluded the life of the C-123 by making it the only aircraft type to operate under jet, piston, and turboprop engine power, and as a glider, during its history.

The C-123T has recently been revived by a joint venture between the US-based Fleetwings Aircraft Company and the South African company Elmer Group. In 2010, they announced a project to initially remanufacture old airframes for African customers and, where there was demand, to build new aircraft. The airframes would be fitted with new turboprop Rolls-Royce T56-A-15 engines, a glass cockpit and other enhancements. The proposed C-123T would have had a 25,000 lb payload capability, and a take-off run of just over 1,000 ft at 50,000 lb MTOW. Possible applications included maritime patrol, search and rescue, and even use as a gunship, while roll-on packages have already been developed for mid-air refueling and agricultural applications.

Black Spot and other special military C-123s
During the Vietnam War, some C-123s were modified for specialized roles. Most of these modifications were on a one- or two-aircraft level. Only the usage of C-123s as "flare ships" to illuminate targets for fixed wing gunships such as the AC-47 and AC-119G were more numerous. These aircraft operating under the call-sign Candle were flown by the USAF's 14th Special Operations Wing.

A single C-123B was tested as a possible replacement for the Candle aircraft, with its rear loading ramp removed and replaced with a large box with 28 large lights. The aircraft could continuously light a 2 mi circle from an altitude of 12,000 ft. This aircraft, under the provisional designation NC-123B, was dropped because the lights fixed to the aircraft made it far easier for enemy gunners to track compared to the earlier flare ships.

The "Candle" aircraft had an extended life when several UC-123Ks were transferred to Nakhon Phanom Royal Thai Air Force Base in Thailand. During that period, it was used as a flare ship as well as a forward air control (FAC) aircraft. The flare duties were generally used for troops in contact (TIC) while the FAC mission directed air strikes in Laos over the Ho Chi Minh trail.

Another NC-123B was used as a radio relay aircraft over the Ho Chi Minh trail, with equipment to read the signals from various sensors on the ground designed to pick up enemy truck activity.

Two C-123K aircraft modified in September 1965 under Project Black Spot. The Black Spot aircraft were to fit under the "self-contained night attack capability" that was Operation Shed Light's primary focus and E-Systems of Greenville, Texas, was contracted to complete the modifications. These aircraft featured a variety of new sensors including Low Light Level TV (LLLTV), Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR), and a laser rangefinder. The aircraft looked radically different visibly from its transport brethren, as the new equipment required lengthening the nose by over 50 in. The aircraft also featured an armament system designed to carry BLU-3/B (using the ADU-253/B adapter) or BLU-26/B (using the ADU-272/B adapter) bomblets, or CBU-68/B cluster bombs.

The two aircraft, AF Serial Numbers 54-0691 and 54-0698, were first designated NC-123K in 1968 and then redesignated AC-123K in 1969. These NC/AC-123Ks were first deployed operationally at Osan AB, South Korea, between August and October 1968, and flying in support of operations against North Korean infiltrators approaching by boat. The operations in Korea met with a certain level of success and as a result the NC/AC-123Ks were transferred to South Vietnam in November 1968. The aircraft operated there until January 1969, when they were redeployed to Ubon RTAB, Thailand. The two aircraft were then returned to the United States to Hurlburt Field, Florida, in May 1969, where a second round of training occurred. Four crews attended a ground school in Greenville, Texas, and returned to Hurlburt where they flew the aircraft for the first time.

The fate of the aircraft is still unclear. Sources have missions terminating in early July 1970 and the aircraft flying to the Military Aircraft Storage and Disposition Center (MASDC) "boneyard" at Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona, where they were returned to C-123K standard, then returned to South Vietnam still wearing their camouflage and black undersides for transport duty. However, the official history states that combat operations ceased on 11 May 1969, with no mention of the second deployment. While the second deployment is mentioned in associated documentation, the only dates are of the arrival in Thailand and there is no information as to when they departed or where their destination was.

Southeast Asia
In 1962, the CIA acquired five C-123Bs from USAF for Air America to be used in Laos and Vietnam, and another 5 C-123Bs to be used by Republic of China Air Force (Taiwan) top secret 34th Squadron, a Black Ops units called the "Black Bat", as Flight B section (Flight A section was the two P2V-7U/RB-69A). The five Taiwan C-123Bs were sent to Lockheed Skunk Works for modifications as covert insertion aircraft with "smart" air-to-air jammer, BSTR system to jam the radars of ground anti-aircraft guns, also added a defensive operator's station to operate the jammers on board, with extra fuel in underwing tanks, with 36 Taiwanese crew finished training courses at Pope AFB by November 1962.

The five ROCAF/Taiwan/CIA C-123Bs would be used over North Vietnam as low level and nighttime covert airdrop aircraft, under the South Star II agreement, under the guise of Taiwan's national airline, China Airlines, which had "cover story" of operating Vietnamese Air Transport (VIAT) in South Vietnam, that was formerly operated by Air America. The secret outfit was based in Saigon, but would fly out of Da Nang for airdrop missions going into North Vietnam, with some missions lasting 14 hours. On 1 February 1964, the overall control of South Star II was transferred from CIA to Studies and Observations Group (SOG), as part of U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV) in Saigon. The outfit was redesignated as Det. 1 of USAF's 75th Troop Carrier Squadron (TCS), but within SOG it was known as the First Flight Detachment (FFD).

In May 1964, under "Project Duck Hook", six more C-123s received extensive modifications by Lockheed Air Service at Ontario, California, equipped with ATIR and BSTR ECM packages, ASN-25 Doppler navigation system, APN-153 terrain-following radar, a console station for radio operator, new HF radio and other radios. These aircraft were issued to the secret Taiwanese Black Bat unit operating in South Vietnam. In October 1964, MACV, CIA and ROCAF/Taiwan signed the South Star III agreement to continue the operation in Vietnam. The six "Duck Hook" C-123Bs were based at Nha Trang Air Base, north of Cam Ranh Bay, officially designated as USAF Det. 12 of 1131 Special Activities Squadron.

The "Duck Hook" C-123Bs were updated with RDR-10 weather radar and ARN-131 homing receiver in 1966 in order to perform missions over the Ho Chi Minh trail. All C-123Bs were converted to C-123Ks in 1968, with two wing-mounted turbojets, plus an ECM upgrade with APR-25 radar warning receiver and ALE-1 chaff dispenser. Project "Duck Hook" designation was ultimately changed to "Heavy Hook". The Det. 12 of 1131 Special Activities Squadron unit at Nha Trang received an outstanding unit award from the USAF, for flying 4,000 classified combat and combat support missions from June 1966 to May 1968.

In May 1970, C-123Ks from the "Black Bats" supported the secret U.S. military incursion into Cambodia. In October 1970, flights into Laos began. In March 1972, the SOG was deactivated, and the Southern Star operation ended with four surviving C-123Ks returned to Taiwan. On 1 March 1973, 34th "Black Bat" Squadron of ROCAF/Taiwan was disbanded.

Central America
On 5 October 1986, a Corporate Air Services C-123 Provider (HPF821, previously N4410F and USAF 54-679, (c/n 20128)) departed San Salvador-Ilopango Airport in El Salvador loaded with 70 AK-47 rifles and 100,000 rounds of ammunition, rocket grenades and other supplies. It flew along the coastline of Nicaragua and entered Nicaraguan airspace near the border with Costa Rica. Nearing San Carlos, the plane descended to 2,500 feet while preparing to drop off its cargo to Contra fighters.

While conducting the drop, the C-123 was shot down by a Sandinista soldier, using a SA-7 Grail. CIA pilots Wallace "Buzz" Sawyer and William Cooper were killed in the crash. Loadmaster Eugene Hasenfus parachuted to safety and was taken prisoner. He was later released in December 1986. The Fairchild C-123 that was shot down in Nicaragua remains there. Its sister ship, also a Fairchild C-123 that was purchased by the CIA at the same time as the first one, was then left abandoned at San Jose International Airport for a time and then was purchased for $3,000 and disassembled into 7 pieces and transported via boat to Quepos, Costa Rica and then reassembled and is now the center piece of a beachside cocktail lounge just up the road from Manual Antonio national park.

Agent Orange controversy
In 2011, a retired Air Force officer, Major Wesley T. Carter, filed a complaint with the Air Force Inspector General alleging that the Air Force knew that UC-123Ks used for spraying Agent Orange in Vietnam remained contaminated and that the Air Force had failed to properly inform subsequent flight crews of the risks following their transfer to the Air Force Reserve at the end of the Vietnam War. In his complaint, Major Carter contends that the Air Force has known since 1994 that the aircraft were contaminated with the defoliant; he cites the fact that when a former C-123 was being prepared for a permanent static display that workers had to use HAZMAT suits and respirators. Additionally, it is asserted that when the aircraft was tested by the Air Force, it contained high levels of the known carcinogen polychlorinated dibenzodioxin, studies since confirmed by the Oregon Health Sciences University and Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health.

The aircraft which were flown from 1972–1982, were assigned to the Air Force Reserve after their service in Vietnam, and used for normal cargo and aeromedical evacuation missions. Air crews accumulated hundreds of flight hours aboard several contaminated aircraft that were often flown with the windows open due to the smell and eye irritation. Memos surfaced showing that Air Force JAG officers recommended keeping the toxicity information, "...within official channels." Further, Major Carter located Air Force reports of dioxin-contaminated aircraft sold abroad, and of one used at the Robins AFB, Georgia Museum of Aviation with public access to the contaminated surfaces of the aircraft. In 2010, due to concerns about dioxin contamination, the Air Force took the unusual step of shredding all the remaining surplus C-123K/UC-123K aircraft and melting the scraps into ingots for disposal.

On 9 June 2011, the Secretary of the U.S. Air Force's Inspector General rejected Carter's complaints, and in a subsequent message explained, "Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to identify or notify the individuals in the categories you mention" when asked if the military would alert the aircrews regarding their exposure to dioxin. On 18 June 2011, the veterans' complaint was accepted with the Department of Defense Inspector General, adding the request that the UC-123K aircraft themselves be designated by the Secretary of Defense as "Agent Orange Exposure Sites".

In December 2011, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs posted two notices of its decision that, while the post-Vietnam aircraft "may" have been contaminated, the aircrews were "unlikely" to have suffered exposure to dioxin. In an unusual response, the U.S. Center for Toxic Substance and Disease Registry quickly countered the VA position on 25 January 2012 with a statement by their Deputy Director concluding that aircrews and maintenance personnel most likely were exposed well beyond military and government surface-wipe screening levels.

Variants

 * Chase XCG-20
 * Two prototype all-metal troop transport gliders built by Chase Aircraft, later designated the XG-20, one became the XC-123, the other the XC-123A.

 * Chase XC-123
 * Former XG-20 fitted with two 2,200 hp R-2800-23 engines.

 * Chase XC-123A
 * Former XG-20 fitted with four J47-GE-11 turbojets in pairs (of the type used by the B-36 and B-47 ) under wings.

 * C-123B
 * Production model based on the XC-123 with two 2,300 hp R-2800-99W engines with accommodation for 61 troops or 50 stretchers, five built by Chase and 302 build by Fairchild Aircraft.

 * UC-123B
 * C-123Bs modified for defoliation and crop destruction duties.

 * VC-123C
 * Executive transport version of the jet-powered XC-123A, not built.

 * Stroukoff YC-123D
 * One aircraft built by Stroukoff with boundary layer control system for improved STOL performance.

 * Stroukoff YC-123E
 * One aircraft built by Stroukoff with modified fin and rudder, modified fuselage bottom (called Pantobase) and pontoon floats to allow operation from water, sand, snow or ice.

 * YC-123H
 * Prototype with wide track undercarriage and two underwing J85 booster engines.

 * C-123J
 * C-123B with two wing tip mounted Fairchild J44-R-3 booster engines, 10 converted on the production line, plus one converted later for the CAA (later FAA) for Alaska operations.

 * C-123K
 * C-123Bs with two underwing J85 booster engines and larger wheels, 183 converted.

 * AC-123K/NC-123K
 * Two C-123Bs converted for armed nighttime surveillance with special sensors.

 * C-123L
 * Proposed STOL variant with T64 turboprop engines and a wide-track, large-wheel main landing gear – not proceeded with. (Fairchild Model M-541 Tactical Airlift Transport)

 * C-123T
 * Proposed upgrade for Royal Thai Air Force C-123Bs including installation of turboprop engines; cancelled after one prototype due to budgetary reasons.

 * HC-123B
 * USCG search and rescue variant

 * UC-123K
 * C-123Ks converted for Ranch Hand defoliation missions, 34 converted.

 * VC-123K
 * One C-123K converted as personal transport for General Westmoreland's use in Vietnam.

 * Stroukoff YC-134
 * One aircraft built by Stroukoff, as C-123B but fitted with boundary layer control system, tailplane endplates, redesigned landing gear with tandem main wheels. Later designated YC-134A when fitted with Pantobase landing gear.

 * YC-136
 * Proposed improved variant; cancelled before any aircraft built.

Operators

 * Brazilian Air Force – two resold to VARIG
 * Khmer Air Force - received 21 C-123Ks in 1973
 * Republic of China Air Force
 * 34th "Black Bat Squadron", 1962 to 1973
 * 4 C-123K, retired in 1981
 * Republic of China Air Force
 * 34th "Black Bat Squadron", 1962 to 1973
 * 4 C-123K, retired in 1981

 * Air Force of El Salvador - received three C-123Ks in 1982
 * Royal Lao Air Force - received 10 in 1973
 * Lao People's Liberation Army Air Force
 * 🇵🇭 Philippines
 * Philippine Air Force - received 19 from 1973
 * Royal Saudi Air Force - Six C-123Bs acquired in 1957. Five returned to US in 1966–67.
 * Philippine Air Force - received 19 from 1973
 * Royal Saudi Air Force - Six C-123Bs acquired in 1957. Five returned to US in 1966–67.
 * Royal Saudi Air Force - Six C-123Bs acquired in 1957. Five returned to US in 1966–67.
 * Republic of Korea Air Force - C-123Ks from 1973 and C-123Js from 1977
 * South Vietnam
 * Republic of Vietnam Air Force - 64 C-123Ks acquired 1971–72.
 * Royal Thai Air Force
 * United States Air Force
 * United States Coast Guard
 * Venezuelan Air Force - 18 C-123Bs acquired 1958, in use until 1983
 * United States Air Force
 * United States Coast Guard
 * Venezuelan Air Force - 18 C-123Bs acquired 1958, in use until 1983
 * Venezuelan Air Force - 18 C-123Bs acquired 1958, in use until 1983

Accidents and incidents

 * 9 October 1958: A C-123B Provider, AF Ser. No. 55-452', en route from Hill AFB, Utah to McChord AFB, Washington, with five USAF Thunderbirds flight crew and 14 maintenance personnel, flew through a flock of birds and crashed into a hillside six miles east of Payette, Idaho, just before 1830, killing all on board. This accident remains the worst loss-of-life in the Thunderbirds team history.
 * 11 December 1964: A Republic of Vietnam Air Force C-123B (#55-4522) crashed into Sơn Trà Mountain shortly after takeoff from Da Nang Air Base killing all 38 onboard.
 * 11 December 1965: En route to Tuy Hoa Air Base, a USAF C-123 hit some trees on top of a ridge, causing it to enter a spin and crash. Four American officers and 81 South Vietnamese paratroopers were killed.
 * 24 January 1966: A C-123K operated by the USAF (Registration 54-0702) lost power and crashed after take-off from An Khe, en route to Bong Son. The aircraft was transporting troops taking part in Operation Masher. The crew of four and 42 members of the 1st Air Cavalry Division were killed.
 * 18 May 1966: C-123B Provider shot down in An Khe, South Vietnam.
 * 27 November 1970: A C-123K #55-4574 on approach to Nha Trang Air Base in poor visibility crashed into terrain killing six U.S. crew and 73 South Vietnamese.
 * 29 November 1970: A C-123K #54-0649 on approach to Cam Ranh Air Base crashed into terrain killing 42 onboard.
 * 27 December 1971: A C-123K enroute from Udorn Royal Thai Air Force Base, to Xieng Lom located in northwestern Laos, was reportedly shot down by anti-aircraft fire approximately 35 km east northeast of Xieng Lom resulting in the loss of four crew members. In October, 1997, a Joint Task Force (JTF 98-IL) located the crash site. After three excavations (2017-2018) the remains of three crew members were identified.
 * 16 October 1980: A UC-123K of the Ohio Air National Guard crashed shortly after take off en route home from Fort Sill, Oklahoma to Rickenbacker ANGB, Ohio. Four crew members died on impact, the fifth died later.
 * 6 February 1982: A South Korean Air Force C-123 crashed into a volcano while on approach to Jeju International Airport, killing all 53 people on board.
 * 1 June 1982: A South Korean Air Force C-123 crashed into Mt. Choenggye, killing all 53 people on board.
 * 1 August 2010: The aircraft used for flying scenes in the movie Con Air, C-123K, former AF Ser. No. 54-0709, FAA registration N709RR (cn: 20158), crashed in Denali National Park while performing a cargo flight for All West Freight. All three crew members died.

Costa Rica

 * 54-0663 – El Avion restaurant in Hotel Costa Verde, Costa Rica has the twin of the CIA-operated aircraft downed by the Sandinista forces over Nicaragua in 1986. The aircraft has been converted into a bar. [50 ]

El Salvador

 * 56-4375 – Ilopango International Airport, El Salvador, C-123K with serial FAS-122 is on static display, this is one of the original aircraft provided by the United States Air Force to the Salvadorean Air Force during the Salvadoran Civil War. When was in service with the USAF, it was used, by General William Westmoreland, during the Vietnam War conflict, back then was called "The White Whale" VC-123B 56-4375 (AF 56-4375) which were used as VIP transports.

Philippines

 * 54-0624 – C-123K Benito Ebuen AFB, Mactan Island, Philippines
 * 54-0525 - C-123K Camp Enrile, Zamboanga City, Philippines

South Korea

 * 54-0687 – Muan International Airport, South Korea
 * 55-4509 – Jeju Aerospace Museum, South Korea
 * 56-4360 – Jinpo maritime Theme park, Gunsan, South Korea
 * 56-4386/9 – War Memorial of Korea, Seoul, South Korea

Thailand

 * 54-0555 – Royal Thai Air Force Museum, Don Muang AFB.
 * 54-0576 – Jesada Technik Museum, Thailand, C-123K (aircraft used in Operation Dumbo Drop) (not listed on museum website)
 * UNKNOWN – Caltex gas station, Bang Whua subdistrict, Bang Pakong district, Chachoengsao province, Thailand. Retired C-123B of the Royal Thai Air Force converted into a cafe called "Coffee 123" or more popularly known by the locals as the airplane cafe.

United States of America

 * 54-0580 – Pima Air and Space Museum (adjacent to Davis-Monthan AFB), Tucson, Arizona, C-123(B)K (On loan from US Forest Service)
 * 54-0593 – Wilford Hall Medical Center, Lackland AFB, Texas
 * 54-0604 – Dyess AFB, Texas, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF)
 * 54-0609 – Fort Bragg, North Carolina, 82nd Airborne Division War Memorial Museum, C-123K
 * 54-0610 – Hill Aerospace Museum, Hill AFB, Utah, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF).
 * 54-0612 – March ARB, California, March Field Air Museum, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF).
 * 54-0629 – McGuire AFB, Trenton, New Jersey
 * 54-0633 – Robins AFB, Georgia, Museum of Aviation, C-123B (on loan from NMUSAF).
 * 54-0658 – Dover AFB, Delaware, Air Mobility Command Museum, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF).
 * 54-0664 – Air Heritage Aviation Museum in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania; this museum's C-123K, nicknamed "Thunder Pig," is operational and available for air shows.
 * 54-0668 – Lackland AFB, Texas, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF)
 * 54-0669 – Pope AAF (former Pope AFB), North Carolina, Pope Air Park, C-123K (painted as AF Ser. No. 54-0372) (on loan from NMUSAF)
 * 54-0674 – Air America Foundation, Inc., owns a C-123K, housed at Space Coast Regional Airport, Titusville, Florida.
 * 54-0683 – Air Force Flight Test Museum, California, sitting alongside a C-119 Flying Boxcar on an unused runway south of the air base. This aircraft was auctioned off in early 2016.
 * 54-0695 – Mid-America Transportation and Aviation Museum, Sioux City, Iowa.
 * 55-4505 – Pima Air and Space Museum (adjacent to Davis-Monthan AFB), Tucson, Arizona, C-123B (on loan from NMUSAF, former Ranch Hand aircraft)
 * 55-4507 – Travis AFB, California, Travis Air Museum, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF).
 * 55-4512 – Castle Airport (former Castle AFB), California, Castle Air Museum, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF).
 * 55-4533 – Hurlburt Field, Florida, Hurlburt Field Memorial Air Park, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF)
 * 55-4558 – C-123J at Museum of Alaska Transportation & Industry, Wasilla Airport, Alaska
 * 55-4567 – Little Rock AFB, Arkansas, C-123K (on loan from NMUSAF)
 * 56-4361 – Wendover Airport, Wendover, Utah
 * 56-4362 – National Museum of the United States Air Force, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, C-123K (Patches, former Ranch Hand aircraft).
 * 56-4395 – Former Kulis ANGB, Anchorage, Alaska, C-123J (on loan from NMUSAF)
 * UNKNOWN – SpringHill Camps, Evart, Michigan. This C-123K has been repurposed as a camp cabin for year-round use.

Several other examples of C-123s remain in an active flying status, operated by private owners in the United States or by various air forces worldwide.

Notable appearances in media

A C-123K (54-709), N709RR (since destroyed in a crash in 2010) was prominently featured in the action film Con Air (1997); other C-123s appeared in Air America (1990), Outbreak (1995), Operation Dumbo Drop (1995) and American Made (2017), none of which were used in Operation Ranch Hand.

title: Fairchild C-123 Provider


text:
Talk:Premier of South Australia

Left/Right
"Before the 1890s, there was no formal party system in South Australia. Party labels before that time indicate a general tendency only." Does anyone know what "general tendencies" the governments before the 1890s had, and if so is there a way to indicate this in the article without referring to them as Labor/Liberal (for obvious reasons) or "left" and "right"? I'm not sure myself but would be quite interested to find out and indicate them in a meaningful and correct way. Timeshift 15:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Free trade vs protectionism seems to be mentioned in quite a few articles of the time. --Scott Davis Talk 22:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Well done Wikipedians
Nice to see that the SA parliament website relies on us for something :-) Click "Premiers of South Australia" on this page Timeshift 14:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should seek permission to use their images in that case Screech1616 (talk) 13:44, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Something wrong at bottom of page
Grr... can anyone figure it out? Timeshift (talk) 11:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, thanks Peter. Timeshift (talk) 12:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Party leader template
I have created an SA ALP leader template. How far back should an SA Liberal leader template go? Eastick was the first Liberal Party leader, LCL has a seperate wiki page with 4 leaders and should have another template? Timeshift (talk) 03:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Saw the ALP template; great job as I hadn't realised I had missed Kirkpatrick. Eastick would be the logical choice for the first Liberal leader and I can't see why the LCL shouldn't have a template of its own. --Roisterer (talk) 03:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Will do navboxes, and earlier templates, when I have some more time. Timeshift (talk) 05:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Done - but I don't if it's worth doing it for leaders prior to the LCL as parties get a little bit fluid before them. Timeshift (talk) 10:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Also i'm surprised nobody picked up on John McPherson. Timeshift (talk) 09:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Good spot. --Roisterer (talk) 12:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Comm Lib Party
Removed CLP refs, per http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A110181b.htm - The Liberals exhibited a new assertiveness: in 1906 they had formed the Liberal and Democratic Union with a network of branches... Stung by Labor's April election victory, in September 1910 the anti-Labor parties amalgamated to form the Liberal Union, with Peake as parliamentary leader. Timeshift (talk) 03:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

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Error - who was Labor leader 1916-1917?
If Vaughan left Labor in 1916 to help form the NLP, but remained Premier until 1917, who was Labor leader during this time? I can't seem to find an answer for it, and Vaughan's infobox showing him as Labor leader until 1917 is clearly wrong. Timeshift (talk) 02:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Any corrections on Leader of the Opposition (South Australia) welcome
Such as when a non-Labor party become another non-Labor party under a different name under the same leader, and other possible errors. Thanks. Timeshift (talk) 17:10, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Premiers of Victoria which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 15:00, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Playmander on Timeline
I note with interest the highlighting of a period of time when a so-called gerrymander was in place, often referred to as a "Playmander" after Tom Playford, the Premier at the time.

Is this necessary? There is an argument that an additional period post 2002 that is known as the "Reverse Playmander" is now in place, and in the spirit of neutrality should also be included. Screech1616 (talk) 12:53, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * If you can find a reliable source referring to this, add it. (But in my opinion the current ALP is just doing better at keeping marginal seats. And you won't fix that by adjusting the boundaries.) Mark Hurd (talk) 16:01, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Oh wow. Who's been in your ear? Liberal apparatchiks? Rusted ons? News Ltd and/or reader comments? Where to start, honestly. Ok, why just post 2002? The last time the electoral laws were changed was after the 1989 election which were Liberal instigated and passed with bipartisan support! Definition of gerrymander according to google: manipulate the boundaries of an electoral constituency so as to favour one party or class. Where? How? And how did the pre-2002 redistribution do this? The Liberal and Country League manipulated the boundaries and there's plenty of reliable sources for it. There has been no gerrymandering since the Playmander and you won't find a reliable source saying otherwise. Did you know that in 2014, a majority of Liberal seats (12 of 22) swung toward Labor? Adelaide, Dunstan, Davenport, Unley, Heysen, Waite, Goyder, Kavel, Schubert, Hammond, Bragg and Chaffey. Which is amusing considering Labor ran dead in seats they didn't hold so they could concentrate on seats they did hold... I wonder what the 2PP would have been if they did. Several state metro Lib seats had 8%+ 2pp swings toward Labor in some booths, the largest being St Peters in Marshall's seat with 15%! The others were the usual suspects... Evans, Chapman, Redmond, others. And you can see it in the federal results too - Labor retaining Makin, Wakefield, Adelaide and Kingston. Makin was always held by the government of the day but Labor holds it on the third strongest result of any party in the seat's history (second in 2007, first in 2010), Kingston's Labor margin is the second strongest result of any party in the seat's history (first in 2010). Labor's 2pp in Wakefield and Adelaide is several percent more than it was in 2004. Was there a gerrymander at the 1998 fed election and Howard should have been a one-term PM? Ok, back to state politics. Several seats were substantially redistributed - best example was Ashford which went from 4.8% to 0.6% but Labor increased it to 1.9%! Look at the booth results rather than the seat results, it's got nothing to do with the boundaries. It could marginally be claimed that there's a gerrymander HELPING the opposition if the electoral commission is whittling away popular government MP's margins! You can't win a state election in SA without carrying the metropolitan area. Labor very clearly won the metropolitan two-party vote in 2014, and is reflected in the 2013 fed results. Let's look back. Playford won a majority right through his time with the Playmander right up until his 1965 defeat by a single seat and took a 55% opposition 2PP to do it. The Libs won the two-party vote in a majority of seats in 2002 and 2014 but couldn't command a majority on the floor of the house. As for 2014, the statewide 2PP for a state with such a centralised population is something that i'm sure Antony Green will write about at some point and will make for very interesting reading. But it really should go without saying - the SA Libs, both state and fed, are a hopeless affair. But that won't stop cretins like Pyne claiming that the SA govt is somehow illegitimate (yet somehow fed Labor's 2010 2pp of 50.12% was illegitimate too... who knows what goes on inside his head). I'm sure he would have been a supporter of the Playmander without hesitation though. So please, rather than throw around baseless accusations, how about you provide some evidence for your claims? And/or if you want to contest what i've said above, you're more than welcome to that too. Or, if you wish to agree with people like Liberal Senator Simon Birmingham (and Martin Hamilton-Smith) that they didn't win 2014 because they are hopeless at marginal seat campaigning, you're welcome to do that too. What you're not welcome to do is ignore this and walk away with your tail between your legs. Timeshift (talk) 01:59, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

 * By the way, I googled the term "Reverse Playmander" and it found no results. I did come across this though :) Timeshift (talk) 06:37, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

 * The issue with the current system is that it favours the incumbent. Add to that the small relative size of the electorates (20-25,000 people), it becomes a very difficult situation to unseat sitting members - the power of incumbency is extreme in SA.  I agree, the situation is a result of the 1989 changes but unlike how it is designed to work, it actually has the result effect.  By concentrating the winnable seats into the number that are required to change government reduces an election down to just those seats.  Yes the opposition has a significant number of seats in regional areas as would be expected with a conservative party and with such a centralized population this makes it very difficult to redistribute as the system is designed.  Had the opposition not imploded during the 90s and early 2000s, they would still be in power now as in the same manner, the redistributions would be favouring the incumbent government.
 * We have heard a lot of hysterical commentary about the recent election result, a lot of it ridiculous. The key out of everything is that it will take a landslide to unseat any government in this state, a hung parliament in an SA election would likely be an election win for the opposition in most other jurisdictions.  Whilst my previous comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, the situation is that we have replaced one broken electoral system with a slightly less broken electoral system - it is far from fixed.  The main point I was making was that I was unsure why that period needed to be highlighted on the timeline, there seems to be a very politically skewed motivation behind it, and from your response it seems highly emotive too. Screech1616 (talk) 12:18, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Well thanks for replying but talk about answers to questions that weren't asked. Why did you ignore everything i've said? Providing evidence for your claims of a gerrymander/"Reverse Playmander"! It's one-vote-one-value, there's no weighting like the Playmander giving two thirds of seats to the state's outback population despite only containing one third of the state population. One-vote-one-value, with an allowable deviation of up to 10% from one seat to the next. The electoral commission is acting on what the Liberals wanted in 1989 and what the Labor govt agreed to, and the commission are constantly whittling away popular govt MP margins. To say there's some form of gerrymander is blatantly false and misleading and damages democracy. Why were people like Liberal Senator Birmingham, or Hamilton-Smith, admitting they didn't win 2014 because they are hopeless at marginal seat campaigning? There were several Labor seats redistributed where the margin was substantially decreased. How is that favouring the incumbent? If you're saying that the single-member system that Playford introduced when prior we had multi-member seats has it's faults in a highly centralised state like SA, then perhaps, but no system is perfect even though it's the SA Libs that keep instigating the changes throughout the decades to the electoral laws. I disagree with your incumbency comments. There was just 316 votes in Newland preventing the Liberals winning govt, with Such out, Brock would have had to side with the Libs. 316 votes. It's good marginal seat campaigning and a bit of luck. If they're a bad member, just like in NT, they're gone. They have less than 5000 votes per seat and almost every voter has personally spoken to or been spoken to by their MP. If they're a good member, what's wrong with that? It's a westminster system, not a popular vote, and if there are good members representing good seats, that's what counts. Bums on seats. Not some arbitrary percentile of votes. But when you look at it, in 2002 and 2014, the SA Libs actually won a two-party majority in 24 of 47 seats, a majority of one. SA 2014 had a Lib 53% 2PP with 51% of seats on 2PP. Fed 2013 had a Lib 53.5% 2PP with 62% of seats on 2PP. I ask, which result was more proportionally correct? Back to SA, there's something a two-party system and fairness legislation can't account for - independents. This is not a presidential system even though the campaigns have certainly become presidential. I find it amusing you think it's just infighting which saw the back of Brown/Olsen/Kerin and that the Libs would still be in power. Look at the 1994 by-elections and the budget cuts. People hated the SA Libs, again, long before Olsen became Premier. Anywho, let me say it again. There has been no gerrymandering since the Playmander and you won't find a reliable source saying otherwise. But there are loads of reliable sources for the Playmander. So basically, one is true, one isn't. My response may have been emotive but one really does get sick of constant crap peddled by imbeciles that the election outcome was somehow illegitimate. It's a very serious accusation which in itself debases our democratic institutions. Ask Izzy Redmond, she knows all about it. Timeshift (talk) 00:32, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe there is a valid argument in weighting the value of the vote in regional areas. Maybe those areas need the protection/favour of having more members.  Often the complaints heard are that all the resources and infrastructure go into Adelaide and the suburbs, maybe we need to make the country vote more valuable.  Similar to the Australian Senate, each state has the same number of Senators so that the Eastern states to not control the decision making.  In such as centralised political environment, maybe a similar imbalance is required.  The problem is historically this was done extremely poorly, with the balance way too far towards the regions making the metro areas almost irrelevant, which seems to cloud debate into this concept that 1 vote-1 value is somehow the ultimate democracy.  The issue is that if politicians govern only for the majority, then the disadvantaged/minorities get left behind.  Why build access ramps, provide translation services etc? The majority don't need them so there are minimal votes in it.  Why build new infrastructure in rural communities, that's not where the votes are.  There is a social justice element to this, the regions in South Australia do tend to get neglected. Screech1616 (talk) 11:56, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The Senate is an upper house and a house of review for the states. There is no comparison for a state lower house. "Decision making"? It's a house of review. Not a formation of govt. Abandoning one vote one value would be loony. At least you've revealed your hand by wanting more weight to be given to rural over metro. Perhaps if what you're looking for is multimember representation, then so be it, but somehow I doubt you along with most Liberals would be happy to have Greens elected to the lower house. Remember, the Libs won the two-party vote in 24 of 47 seats, and statewide, in 2002 and 2014. It's a fair system. But you seem to continue to want to portray it as a "Reverse Playmander"/gerrymander which damages and debases our democratic institutions. I think that's very poor. At least Senator Simon Birmingham, and Hamilton-Smith got it right: poor marginal seat campaigns from the Liberals cost them two elections in a row. Timeshift (talk) 22:33, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Fisher - rural Clarendon, Cherry Gardens, Coromandel East and Chandlers Hill added in (damn the reverse playmander!) and yet the Libs still lose it to Labor. Nearly a 10% 2PP swing and with unchanged boundaries since the last election. Utter lulz. But by all means, I hope Libs keep making excuses for losing elections here, it will only prolong their already vast time on the opposition benches. Timeshift (talk) 00:22, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Henry Ayers - Premier five times? Seven times? Ten times? Have we infact got many of them wrong?! Need help!
I was re-doing his lead slightly, and came across this and this for references to reword "but is perhaps best remembered for having Uluru/Ayers Rock named for him" as I couldn't find any refs to support this subjective/opinionated wording. Little was I to know the minefield I was about to stumble across. Both refs say Ayers was Premier of South Australia seven times! According to both his article and Premier of South Australia, we have him down for five times. So I checked ye olde faithful only to find that their Premier list on page 173 only starts from Walsh/1965! Odd, I seem to recall it going back much further. So, next stop was SA Parliament Premiers and Ayer's biography, which also says he was Premier seven times! So I clicked on the "Ministerial Appointment" dropdown, to find five Premier listings, five "Chief Secretary" listings, and one "Without Office" listing! I had a read of Chief Secretary, which very dumbed down my understanding is it is basically the old name for Premier (second in charge after the Governor). According to ye olde faithful, we had a Chief Secretary from 1856 right through to 1989, so once SA had a Premier i'm not sure what the Chief Secretary's role was apart from perhaps a ceremonial one, but I digress slightly. I'm now not sure exactly where we sourced the data for Premier of South Australia from and where we got five times for Ayers from (note, refs used in Premier articles are dying en-masse), i'm not sure why three sources including SA Parliament say he was Premier seven times, and why the SA Parliament "Ministerial Appointment" dropdown has him down for five-time Premier and five-time Chief Secretary and whatever the "Without Office" listing is. Where there's smoke, there's fire... this is likely just the tip of the iceberg. And the final Ayers confusion, while he was CS there were other MPs serving as Premier, and while he was Premier there were others serving as CS. I thought I had a half-reasonable grasp on early SA political history, but this has made me re-assess that significantly. My grasp on this is shattered. Does anyone have the motivation to proceed to check and solidly source Premier of South Australia and the individual Premier articles? What ref and/or method are we currently using, and if it's not the correct or best way, what ref and/or method should we be using? I've left Henry Ayers as a five-time Premier in the lead for now as that's what was there and what's in Premier of South Australia, but I think it will be one of many SA Premier articles under review/fact check. Additionally, there's a Chief Secretary of New South Wales article, does anyone want to do a Chief Secretary of South Australia article and/or list, presumably based on page 173? Anywho, thanks for reading... logging off, i've got a headache now :/ Timeshift (talk) 19:19, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I can start the article/list, but don't know how much other content I will get to. --Scott Davis Talk 05:45, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Easy bits of the article created today between other activities. I hope it helps. The see also Chief Secretary gives a clue about the general role and its history, but not SA specifically. --Scott Davis Talk 13:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Template:South Australian ministries displays the discrepancy in a nutshell: it depends on how you define times. Ayers had seven ministries, but the first and second, and the sixth and seventh were consecutive. He was sworn in as Premier atop seven different ministries; he had five unbroken stints as Premier, even if he might have been in acting mode in the brief stints between the dates his consecutive ministries fell and were voted back in. (Look at the individual ministries in the Statistical Register - it records the ministry as continuing in office until its successor was sworn in, so by that logic Ayers was still serving as Premier when he was re-sworn in with new ministers each time.) Does this make sense? I don't care which one you want to use in the article: I would probably go with whichever figure other sources use (noting that there's better sources than those cited), but they're both technically right so whatever. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:05, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I should just point out that this also applies to Arthur Blyth and James Boucaut who also served as Premier atop consecutive and non-consecutive ministries, so whatever you do for Ayers applies to Blyth and Boucaut and should be changed there. The Drover's Wife (talk) 15:16, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Premier of South Australia


text:
You Know You're Right

"You Know You're Right" is a song by the American rock band Nirvana, written by lead vocalist and guitarist, Kurt Cobain. It is the first song on the greatest hits album Nirvana, released by DGC Records in October 2002. It is also the final song the band recorded before Cobain's suicide in April 1994.

For years after Cobain's death, the song was known only from a bootlegged live version, recorded in October 1993 at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago, Illinois, and from a cover by American rock band Hole, fronted by Cobain's widow, Courtney Love. Surviving Nirvana members Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic had intended to release the studio version on a posthumous Nirvana box set, but Love blocked its release in 2001, asserting that a recording of such "extraordinary artistic and commercial value" belonged on a cheaper, single disc compilation instead.

In September 2002, "You Know You're Right" was subject to a high profile Internet leak, which led to it being put into heavy rotation on radio stations around the world, despite cease and desist orders from DGC's parent company Geffen Records. Shortly after, it was announced that the lawsuit between Love and Grohl and Novoselic was settled, and that the song would appear on a greatest hits album later that year.

"You Know You're Right" was released as a promo single in October 2002, and reached number one on both Billboard's Mainstream Rock Tracks and Modern Rock Tracks charts.

Early history

"You Know You're Right" was written in 1993. A boombox-recorded home demo, featuring Cobain on vocals and guitar, was released posthumously on the Nirvana box set, With the Lights Out, in November 2004. The same version was re-released on the compilation album, Sliver: The Best of the Box, in November 2005.

The full song was only performed once in concert, at the Aragon Ballroom on October 23, 1993. Contemporary reviews of the show did not mention the then-unknown song, but Chicago music journalist Jim DeRogatis later described hearing it at the concert in a 2002 Spin article, recalling that "it was classic Nirvana, hitting with the same impact as 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' and boasting a similar structure-a slow, creepy verse, suddenly exploding into a painfully cathartic but undeniably catchy chorus."

Robert Lang session
"You Know You're Right" was recorded in the studio by Adam Kasper at Nirvana's final session, on January 30, 1994 at Robert Lang Studios in Seattle, Washington. The band had booked the studio for three days during a tour break, but Cobain had been absent for the first two days, leaving Novoselic and Grohl to work on their own songs. Upon Cobain's arrival on the third day, he immediately went to the studio's mixing console and listened to the material his bandmates had recorded, offering support. Despite his apparent enthusiasm for the session, he had arrived at the studio without his gear, and ended up using a Univox guitar that the band's guitar technician, Ernie Bailey, had reworked for him, along with the studio's 50 Watt Marshall amp, which he disliked, and a pedal board with a Boss distortion pedal.

The band jammed for approximately 20 minutes, and then began working on the arrangement of "You Know You're Right", then known as "Kurt's Tune #1". According to a May 2004 Mojo article by Gillian G. Gaar, the band rehearsed the song three times, with the structure "pretty well hashed out" on the first take, and the chiming intro featured in the final version, achieved by Cobain playing the guitar above the nut, first appearing on the third take. Robert Lang, the studio's owner, recalled being "speechless" hearing the song while in the control room with Kasper.

After recording the master instrumental take, the band and others present at the recording session took a break away from the studio to visit a local pizzeria and for Cobain to buy cigarettes, and then returned and recorded another instrumental song, titled "Jam After Dinner". Cobain then recorded the vocals to "You Know You're Right," completing the main vocals in one take, and then adding two additional vocal overdubs. These were the only vocals that Cobain recorded during the session. His final contribution to the recording was a guitar overdub. Novoselic and Grohl recorded six more songs without Cobain, who had likely left by then, after signing the studio door and adding a drawing of a cat next to his signature.

Nirvana's touring guitarist, Pat Smear, lived in Los Angeles and was not present during the session. In a 2002 interview with the website Nirvana Fan Club, he said Cobain had sent him a cassette of the recording and told him he could add his part later. The band dissolved before Smear had the chance. The band reportedly planned to continue work at Lang's studio after their upcoming European tour, but Cobain died just over two months later, after cancelling the tour and returning to Seattle.

The masters of the sessions remained in Novoselic's basement until 1998, when work began on a posthumous Nirvana box set with an intended release date of September 2001, the 10th anniversary of the band's major label debut, Nevermind. The song, now retitled "You Know You're Right," was mixed on July 14 and 15 of that year at Conway Studios in Hollywood, California, in anticipation of its release. According to Novoselic, the final mix does not sound significantly different from the way it sounded when it was recorded in 1994, with the most dramatic changes being the addition of compression and reverb.

Post-Robert Lang session

Unlike many unreleased Nirvana recordings, the studio version of "You Know You're Right" had never been bootlegged and remained unheard by the public until 2002, when clips provided by Love were played on an episode of the NBC show Access Hollywood. However, an audience recording of the Aragon Ballroom version began appearing on commercial bootlegs as early as 1994, under erroneous titles such as "On a Mountain" and "Autopilot."

The song received further exposure when Hole performed it, under the title "You've Got No Right," during their MTV Unplugged appearance on February 14, 1995. Love introduced it as "a song that Kurt wrote; [the] last song, almost."

In 1995, Love offered the song to American rock musician Mark Lanegan, a friend of Cobain's, to cover with his band, Screaming Trees. As Screaming Trees guitarist Gary Lee Conner recalled in the 2023 book Lanegan, "When we were working on songwriting for Dust...Mark is like, 'Courtney wants us to do a song… And it was that song — 'You Know You're Right.' So, I got a tape of it and we learned it. We never recorded it. But we learned it without Mark, and Mark came down to sing it… and he couldn't. He changed his mind. And that was the end of it." Conner acknowledged that the band "could have had a big hit" by releasing a cover of a then-unknown Nirvana song, but believes Lanegan may have been wary of capitalizing on Cobain's death.

Lawsuit and release
In 2001, the studio version of "You Know You're Right" became the center of a legal dispute between Love and surviving Nirvana members Grohl and Novoselic. Love blocked its release, saying that it would be "wasted" on the planned box set, and was better suited to a single-disc collection similar to the Beatles' compilation album 1. Her lawsuit called the song a "potential 'hit' of extraordinary artistic and commercial value", and her manager asserted that a release with the song could sell 15 million copies. Novoselic said he did not necessarily disagree with Love: "I've always considered everything she said. We've considered it and agreed and said, 'Hey, that's a great idea, Courtney.' I tried to get along with Courtney as best I could, but there's only so much you can do."

In August 2001, one of the earliest firsthand descriptions of the studio version appeared in the Cobain biography Heavier Than Heaven, written by the Seattle music journalist Charles R. Cross, who had been granted access to the recording by Love. Cross called the song "one of the high-water marks in [Cobain's] entire canon," and wrote that "the plaintive wail in the chorus couldn't be clearer: 'Pain,' he cried, stretching the word out for almost ten seconds, giving it four syllables, and leaving an impression of inescapable torment."

In March 2002, Love played the song at a private event in Hollywood, and also allowed a portion of the song to air on an episode of Access Hollywood that she was interviewed in. The latter marked the first time any part of the studio recording had been heard by the general public.

As the lawsuit continued, another description of the studio version appeared in print, in the Spin article The Nirvana Wars, written by DeRogatis and published in June 2002. Like Cross, DeRogatis had been allowed to hear the studio version and other unreleased Nirvana recordings by Love, and described it as "even stronger" than the live version he heard in person at the Aragon Ballroom in 1993.

Leak
In May 2002, four additional clips of "You Know You're Right" were leaked online, leading some to speculate that it had been placed on advance copies of Grohl's heavy metal side project, Probot. On May 17, Grohl issued a statement denying his involvement in the leak, and that the song was not included on any CD he had compiled or given to anyone.

On September 21, 2002, an unmastered MP3 of the full studio version of "You Know You're Right" was leaked online. The song was quickly put in rotation by a number of alternative rock radio stations, which led to cease-and-desist letters being issued by DGC Records' parent company Geffen Records; a number of stations defied the orders. The Seattle radio station 107.7 The End posted a banner on their website that announced: "We took your e-mails and flooded the server at Geffen Records with tons of choice words about their 'You Know You're Right' cease and desist order. Due to the huge publicity outcry, the label has released the track. Hear NEW Nirvana all this weekend, only on 107.7 The End."

In late September, Love, Grohl and Novoselic released a joint statement announcing that the lawsuit had been settled, and that "You Know You're Right" would be officially released on the Nirvana greatest hits album later that year. It was released as a promotional single, with a music video directed by Chris Hafner. It was rereleased on Nirvana's second greatest hits compilation, Icon, in 2010.

Composition
"You Know You're Right" is an alternative rock song that is three minutes and 38 seconds long. According to the sheet music published at Sheet Music Plus by EMI Music Publishing, it is written in the time signature of common time, with a moderately slow tempo of 84 beats per minute. "You Know You're Right" is composed in the key of F minor, while Kurt Cobain's vocal range spans one octave and three notes. The song follows a basic sequence of F5–D♭–E♭ in the verses and pre-chorus and is mainly restricted to a droning chord of F5 throughout the refrain as its chord progression. The journalist Charles R. Cross said it featured the "soft-hard dynamics" of Nirvana's 1993 single "Heart-Shaped Box," with quiet verses followed by a loud screamed chorus.

Title
"You Know You're Right" did not have an official title at the time of Cobain's death in April 1994. According to Gaar's 2002 Mojo article, it was listed simply as "Kurt's Tune #1" on the tracking sheets from the Robert Lang Studios recording session. The title used by Hole, "You've Got No Right," was the one most commonly used by fans prior to the song's official release.

In the liner notes to Nirvana, Rolling Stone writer David Fricke erroneously states that the song had gone under the previous titles of "Autopilot" and "On a Mountain". The latter title was also cited by Cross in Heavier Than Heaven. These names were actually invented by bootleggers who had misheard Grohl's comment at the beginning of the live version. Grohl had announced, "This is our last song; it's called 'All Apologies'", unaware that Cobain had already started playing "You Know You're Right". Due to the relatively poor fidelity of the live recording, bootleggers believed Grohl had introduced the new song, and tried to interpret what they thought was its title. Cross also seems to misrepresent the lyrics in Heavier Than Heaven, citing the lyric, "I am walking in the piss," which appears in Hole's 1995 version of the song, but in no known Nirvana recording.

Music video
A music video for "You Know You're Right" was released in October 2002. Directed by Chris Hafner, it features a montage of band footage, drawn mostly from live performances and interviews, occasionally edited to give the effect of the song being performed. The video peaked at number two on MTV's most played music videos, as monitored by the Nielsen Broadcast Data Systems, for the week ending October 20, 2002.

Reception
"You Know You're Right" was the fourth Nirvana song to enter the Billboard Hot 100 chart, reaching number 45. It was their fifth song to reach number one on the Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart, where it remained for four consecutive weeks, the longest of any Nirvana song. With an increase of 1,616 spins, Nirvana also broke the record for the largest detected jump by an act already on the chart. It also became the first Nirvana song to top the Billboard Mainstream Rock Tracks chart.

Amy McAuliffe from BBC called the song "a poignant reminder of what might have been" and described it as "listening to a dead man snarling out his last gasp of righteous sarcasm." Will Hermes of Spin remarked that it was "amazing how a merely good Nirvana song still scorches everything within earshot." David Samuels of Slate wrote that "unlike most post-mortem rock releases, 'You Know You're Right' is not B-side material or the result of recording studio wizardry—it's a real Nirvana song" that showed that "Cobain was at the peak of his powers as a vocalist and songwriter—the most gifted and popular writer that rock music had seen since Lennon/McCartney." Likewise, Larry Flint from Billboard stated, "Unlike most previously unreleased cuts tacked onto best-of sets, 'You Know You're Right' is a potent addition to Nirvana's cache of classic material."

"You Know You're Right" was ranked at the fifth-best single of the year by Spin, with Charles Aaron calling it a "gnarly little heart-shaped box crammed with feedback, bile, and a gut-shredding chorus." In 2002, the song received a BDS Spin Award for 50,000 radio spins in the US, and in 2003 it received a BDS award for 100,000 radio spins in the US.

Legacy
In 2011, "You Know You're Right" was ranked at number two on NME's list of the 10 best Nirvana songs. In 2015, Rolling Stone listed it at number 21 on their ranking of 102 Nirvana songs. In 2023, it was ranked at number 30 by Stephen Thomas Erlewine on the A.V. Club's "Essential Nirvana: Their 30 greatest songs, ranked" list. Shortly before its release, Kasper described "You Know You're Right" as one of the band's "best songs, probably in the Top Ten."

Grohl reflected on the song in a 2019 interview with The Guardian, telling interviewer Eve Barlow that "I listened to it for the first time in 10 years. Oh God, it's hard to listen to. It was not a pleasant time for the band. Kurt was unwell. Then he was well. Then he was unwell. The last year of the band was tough." In addition to calling the lyrics "heartbreaking" in retrospect, Grohl added that "I used to think it sounded like [Cobain] was singing the chorus. Now I listen to it and it's like he's wailing."

In May 2020, American director Cameron Crowe revealed in an interview with Stereogum that he had hidden the studio recording of "You Know You're Right," given to him by Love, in his film Vanilla Sky, which was released almost a year prior to the song's official release. "We couldn't credit it in the movie and it was actually illegal," Crowe explained, "but Courtney Love gave it to us. She said, 'This is the only Nirvana song that's never been released. Hide it in your movie somewhere.'

In a 2022 retrospective article on the song, Brad Shoup of Billboard described it as "the most anticipated rock single of 2002," and wrote that its posthumous chart success "was a testament to Kurt Cobain's bone-deep sense of songcraft – and the still-sizable fanbase Nirvana had established before Cobain's April 1994 suicide."

Personnel

 * Kurt Cobain – guitar, vocals
 * Krist Novoselic – bass guitar
 * Dave Grohl – drums
 * Adam Kasper – recording and mixing, producer

Recording and release history
Six versions of "You Know You're Right" are known to exist: the final studio version along with three rehearsal takes from the same session, the live version from the band's show at the Aragon Ballroom in October 1993, and the solo acoustic demo that appeared on With the Lights Out in November 2004.

title: You Know You're Right