text:
Goodwell

Goodwell may refer to:

 * Goodwell, Oklahoma
 * Goodwell Township, Michigan
 * Goodwell Clothing Company, "looking good, living well"

title: Goodwell


text: Talk:Amaranth

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Amaranth


text:
User:Campdavid

Structural engineer based in London, UK

title: User:Campdavid


text:
Talk:History of the Soviet Union (1927–1953)

Russia defeating Germany "single-handedly"
"I'm not sure how well the Soviet Union would have handled Germany if the tens of thousands of trucks, thousands of tanks, artillery guns, food, fuel, millions of small arms and rounds of ammunition, etc., that were literally made in the USA and/or Britain hadn't been around. http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/persian/index.htm

And in the next paragraph Anglo-American aid to the USSR is acknowledged, with the irrelevant caveat that Russia was able to produce more at home than the Allies were able to ship in (well, duh). But the two paragraphs still contradict each other."

You are saying Germany? Maybe Axis is better? Germany alone was very far from matching USSR in military terms. Germany attacked with 8 other countries supporting her. Most of german tanks were produced in Chechoslovakia, not even in Germany.

If you compare Russia (not USSR) to Germany, well, Germany has never been a match alone.

LOL, half of these did not even reach USSr, were sunk by Germany and Britain (which was afraid to give them to germany if captured). Also, compare how many trucks, tanks etc. USSR already had, and you will figure out for yourself that answer to your queston: VERY WELL.

Lend lease had no critical impact on anything. Was there too late and in too insufficient numbers.

These supplies were delivered by 1945, while USSR needed them by 1942 only, since after that date, soviet factories were moved to east allready and installed.

And if you want to talk about aid, well, Lend-lease is not even comparable to those investments that USA and Britain poured in to Germany before the war to make Germany a counterbalance to USSR in Europe (since no other candidate was in place).

A question for you: would Germany be able to handle USSR if west would not have helped her? Think about it.

Also, what about USA help to Germany by the end of the war.

Snowdog's Comments
I was transalting this article in Italian. It seems to me that the part on the post-WWII period focuses more on USA than on Soviet Union and is not exaclty what I call NPOV. I mean, reading the article I got the impression that USSR only responded to provocations from the USA. While I think that provocations and retaliations were bilateral.
 * Snowdog 13:43, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

TDC, When reverting the alleged "vandalism" from my edits for the first time you probably didn't notice that I simply made "collectivization" into a separate section a bit lower down the text. This piece missing it its old place may look like vandalism indeed, but it wasn't. Mikkalai 20:40, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
 * ... or did you have something else in mind? Then you should have transferred my resectioning, with quite reasonable references to "main article"s, rather than reverting in one fell swoop. Mikkalai 20:44, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that I did not see the industrialization and collectivization split into the two sections like that. TDC 20:49, May 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Mikkalai was the one who had changed the headings yesterday. I liked it better before, but it doesn't matter much to me either way—the old headings, Mikkalai's headings, the new headings I had inserted yesterday, whatever. I'm just concerned with the constant disappearance of large chunks of text first posted many months ago. 172 17:53, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

TDC,

You are making far too many sweeping changes to an article that has stayed largely intact for many months at once. This is a recipe for an edit war stemming from confusion rather than real, concrete disagreements.

Once again, if you want better luck getting other users to follow what's going on, you can go with the temp page route. You made a great deal of progress when you started working on a temp page/proposed alternative on Hugo Chavez. How about doing it again? I'll get you started by creating TDC/History of the Soviet Union (1927-1953). I'll first post the old version of the article and then your version so that people are able to compare the differences between the two versions on your own page. 172 18:06, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me. TDC 18:07, May 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * You can compare the differences between the two versions here. 172 18:11, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * 172, you wrote you didn't like my headings. Let me explain. My main contribution recently into the USSR history is removing duplications and consolidation of big chunks of history. I am collecting pieces from several articles that often say the same but with different words and different mistakes. For example, the topic of "USSR collectivization" was being covered in four articles. The sole purpose of my resectioning was for the possibility of natural insertions of Main article: [whatever] Mikkalai 19:05, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't mind your headings. Actually, I preferred your version of the headings. But I'm worried that American users in particular will misinterpret them. For example, people will see "great" changes and they'll likely read something value-laden in the word "great," as opposed to "great" in magnitude. 172 22:50, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

here

See the talk page for a full explanation of my changes. TDC 19:12, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

---

'Espionage' section
IMO 'USSR Espionage' is a totally separate thread of the history that deserves its own separate article, with its own timeline. There is much more to say (and already said in wikipedia) on the issue. The already existing info must be consolidated and cross-referenced. ...And other countries had their spies too. A *HUGE* layer of life here. Mikkalai 19:17, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

I think it should have its own section as well because of the large scope and relative ignorance that most people have about is. Aside from this, I believe that the sheer scale (and once again, I cannot understate just how large in scale it was) and original intent of pre-cold war espionage had a ===HUGE=== impact on the way the post war years unfolded. The Soviets never had the kind access into the US as they did during the 2nd WW.

Since Wiki articles do have a good deal of overlapping info, it should also be included in this one as well, even if my original contribution is abridged somewhat. TDC 14:08, May 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * In all the brief encyclopedic write-ups on the Soviet Union with which I'm familiar, the topic of espionage and the Soviet bomb gets only a couple of sentences to a single paragraph, mostly as backgrounding, when the Soviets' first testing of an atomic bomb in September 1949 comes up.

 * Perhaps TDC's content can be moved to Russia and weapons of mass destruction, where it can form a new section on the development of the Soviet atomic weapons program. When the explosion of the first Soviet nuclear weapon comes up, which was frightening to the U.S. because it was simultaneous with the fall of China (this ought to be mentioned as well), we could add this note in this article if TDC agrees to this move: (see Development of the Soviet atomic bomb). 172 20:47, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I am not opposed to it going there, but there is a great deal of duplication in Wikipedia, and that is a good thing for tying loosely related topics together. In this articles current form, it places almost all the blame on the US for the Cold War, when that just is not fair. How can one say that considering the spike in Soviet espionage during WWII and the areas of focus, that Stalin was not preparing for a post war conflict? TDC 22:28, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

 * Soviet industrial espionage is very rich topic, and I reiterate, deserves a separate article. TDC's may be a section in it. Another one is e.g., Farewell Dossier. Computer technology: ES EVM. I can dig some official info (article in Communications of the ACM) on the analysis of microchips recovered from Soviet space rockets. Mikkalai 21:06, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Any article on USSR may have a subsection on espionage, if it is relevant there, in the form of an appropriate summary, and with reference the the main Soviet espinonage article, to avoid duplications and diverging. Mikkalai 21:10, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

What about US espionnage and the CIA tunnel in Berlin ? Ericd 22:14, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Write it if you want it, but this particular article is about the Soviet Union, not the US or the CIA.

The ammount of material on this site pertaining to the CIA is quite large and without any detail about KGB activities seems grossly out of context. That is why I am writing a 5 part series of articles, quite similar to this one, on KGB and NKVD activities during the 20th cenury.

It should provide some balance to the grossly unfair anti-CIA propaganda, but I encourage everyone to participate in it.TDC 22:24, May 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Where? Mikkalai 22:27, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

It should be up in a week or two, I have to research it in depth first. Ed Poor is going to do some work on it when it goes up as well. TDC 22:28, May 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * The question was not 'when', but 'where'. Shall I click New pages every hour for "a week or two" :-)? Mikkalai 22:46, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Neutrality's preposed compromise between VeryVerily and 172
"In response, the United States sustained a massive anticommunist ideological offensive. How the efforts to contain communism through aggressive diplomacy and interventionist policies varies. Some maintain that Washington brandished its role as the leader of the "free world" at least as effectively as the Moscow brandished its position as the leader of the "progressive" and "anti-imperialist" camp; others believe that the United States was meddling in other nation's internal affairs under the banner of "freedom," "democracy," and "human rights." Still others have some combination of these two views." Neutrality 22:08, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
 * There is no real contradiction between the two, so the "compromise" should be the merge, rather than the opposition. Mikkalai 22:46, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
 * "Others believe": there is nothing to "believe": when US congress approves money for dissidents in a country it is meddling big time. Imagine a Belarus sheds some pitiful money for the American rat race, which is accepted by, say, . Mikkalai 22:51, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
 * And don'd forget $$ Soviet Union pumped into U.S. Commies. Mikkalai 22:51, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

"Freedom," "democracy," and "human rights" are in quotation marks, along with "progressive" and "anti-imperialist." We are not supposed to give more creedence to the propaganda of one side over the other. 172 22:54, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Why not be more specific? Perhaps it could be discussed how in some locations (Western Europe, Japan) the US promoted liberal democracy as a bulwark against communism, while in others (Portugal, Turkey, South Korea, and so forth) it was content to back anti-communist dictatorships? john k 23:34, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
 * This article about SU, not US, hence one has to be concise when speaking of US. Mikkalai 23:50, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

I'd also suggest that we should do as much as possible to avoid "scare quotes." john k 23:35, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
 * These aren't really scare quotes. In the context of where this paragraph is situated in the article, it's in reference to the ideological offensive that both superpowers launched following the unveiling of the containment doctrine. It's referencing the ways both blocs characterized themselves. 172 23:49, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

 * IMO the "scare quotes" are relevant as they stand here: they say exactly what is intended: during the cold war some cliches were used as a weapon of demagogy (by both sides), rather than in their direct meaning. Mikkalai 23:50, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

I must say the "proposed" version does look rather like a censored version of 172's work with all things disliked by American conservatives cut out. G-Man 22:58, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

 * That's because you share 172's ideological perspective. To others "172's work" looks almost like propaganda.  Let's work towards language all can agree on. VV 23:33, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm, yes I agree it is perhaps unconciously written from a left-wing perspective and may perhaps need some compromises. But I dont think cutting out large chunks is the answer, that smacks of censorship to me. A lot of the deletions in the 'alternative' version seem to be ideologically driven more than anything else. G-Man 23:54, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't think I cut out anything of substance, or indeed much at all. I did take out the list of buzzwords, an unhelpful detail.  And I replaced, e.g., a loaded term like "advance its will" with "aggressive diplomacy", which I think is a substantial improvement.  (His text implies/states that "freedom" et al. was a cover for other ambitions.)  This is not anything close to "censorship". VV 00:03, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

TDC is quite proud of his beliefs, and he sticks to them. But I disagree that his version is working toward imposing a form of conservative U.S. ideological censorship. On Hugo Chavez, TDC and I put up his proposed alternative, and eventually TDC was able to work out a version along with other users synthesizing his proposed alternative and the current article. The result was a broader perspective, not a more narrow one. Chavez did not come out looking like either a "good guy" or a "bad guy," but as a president of Venezula interested in consolidating his power, which he is. TDC argued his points very effectively and was reasonable with the other users, who in sum along with him chose to adapt, adopt, or reject each of his individual proposals.

He'll be coming back soon, and I'll be more than willing to discuss these changes with him. TDC is out to change the content of articles, and I can work with him. VeryVerily, in contrast, just has axes to grind against individual users, namely me in particular. 172 04:21, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

Industrialization statistics
Where, exactly, did the statistics in the "Industrialization in practice" section (e.g. Pig iron output ... rose from 3.3 million to 10 million tons per year)? I am writing a research paper and would like to include the source of which those statistics came from in my research. Thanks!

Recent edits
Genyo:

More recent Soviet specialists have called into question what they see as the excessive voluntarism of Conquest's thesis and Ukrainian émigré historians, which you seem to be articulating in your edits.

Now it is essentially a matter of consensus that the famine in the Ukraine was an outgrowth of collectivization more than anything else-- that is a requisite for development strategy of the first Five Year Plan, allowing the state to control the distribution of grain, and garner a cheap and steady supply. The following is a list of leading sources in this area of study:

Getty's book review of Conquest's Harvest of Sorrow is helpful:
 * Getty, "Starving the Ukraine: Review of Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-famine, by Robert Conquest", London Review of Books, 7 January, 1987.

Could you cite some concensus among Ukrainian historians, because if such a consensus exists, I am unaware of it! Genyo 01:57, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you're referring to. There is a question as to what extent the famine was deliberate and meant to crush the support of the Ukrainian nationalists. Western Soviet specialists see the famine as essentially an outgrowth of collectivization and Stalinist industrialization strategies. 172 02:04, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Stephen Cohen, Gabor Rittersporn, Lynne Viola, Shiela Fitzpatrick, Moise Lewin, and Robert Dallin are also leading sources. Book reviews and relevant ISBN numbers are easy to find online. 172 01:37, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

172,

Conquest provided a scholarly alternative to the modern orthodoxy you cite. You might want to check the NY Times Book Review on him--amazingly positive, expecially in light of the fiasco of their own papers inaccurate fradulent coverage of the problem as it occurred.

Stalin's animus toward Ukrainians, as well as the Ukrainian nationalist problem in the Soviet Union are well documented by Orest Subtelny, in a book acclaimed by World Affairs Report  as the best history of Ukraine in English.

I you've found that Conquest found subsequent analysis convincing, let me know. I'd still be interested in any list of scholars of Ukrainian history that support your thesis.

Genyo 15:19, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I already gave you a list of scholars who have done more recent work. Please see above. 172 17:42, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Let me re-word my request in light of the inaccuracy of your last request.

Could you cite some concensus among historians who specialize in Ukraine, because if such a consensus exists, I am unaware of it!

Thank you for your careful reading!

Genyo 02:15, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The historians I listed above do specialize in Ukraine. 172 02:48, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

AH! I do intend to check them out! Genyo 22:59, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * 172, at least one "scholar" on your list is a known Soviet revisionist. Gabor Rittersporn has stated that Stalin's fears of conspiracy during the Great Terror "were not groundless" and that most of the people killed during the purges were "elites."  The numbers and pathology behind the terror-famine are well accepted at this point.  Conquest is not the only one, but he is certainly the most respected. Marlowe 21:24, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with all of Rittersporn's work, but you're not characterizing Rittersporn but rather a straw man. No one seriously denies that the terror-famine happened; nor can anyone seriously deny its horrendous nature. The question is to what extent it was deliberate or whether it was more of an outcome of collectivization. 172 21:33, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Then I suppose that this argument depends on whose scholarship one is willing to stand behind. Rittersporn's or Conquest's.  I accept the scholarship of Conquest and you accept the scholarship of Rittersporn.  Maybe for the sake of the article, insert both points of view with references to each work.Marlowe 15:46, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Mr. Marlowe, your position sounds reasonable! Genyo 04:21, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Katyn massacre at wrong time
This article places the Katyn massacre in 1944-5, during the Soviet advance into Nazi-held territory. It happened in 1939 or 40, after the Soviet takeover of eastern Poland. The Katyn massacre page says it right.

 * Thank you very much for pointing this out, I've fixed it now. Everyking 00:35, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Objections from anon user

 * An anon user posted his objections at the wrong place, I just moved them here without comment. --Irpen 04:04, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Interesting article, I have a couple of questions, though.

Before the war, Stalin was uninterested in pushing Soviet boundaries beyond their full Tsarist extent.

''You mean, we all missed what the Comintern was dedicated to, right? Collecting tsarist memorabilia from the White aristocracy in Paris, maybe? That was what it was all about? And the Soviet intervention in Spain? Ah, that was an international folk and political song festival. One of those events Stalin loved so much, where the comrades got all together to sing the all time choir hits Bandera Rosa and The Internationale.''

In this sense, the aims of the Soviet Union were not aggressive expansionison but rather consolidation, i.e. attempting to secure the war-torn country's western borders.

I suppose this is what you call moving the borders of SU westward by 200-300 miles.

Stalin, assuming that Japan and Germany could menace the Soviet Union once again by the 1960s, thus quickly imposed Moscow-dominated governments in the springboards of the Nazi onslaught: Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria.

''My first thought, reading this, was "if only the Romanian, Polish and Bulgarian people knew the Japanese and their wretched non-agression pact with Soviet Union are to blame for 40 years of totalitarian regime." Then, I felt something was amiss... Not sure what. So, let me get this straight. First, Soviet Union, to prevent Poland from becoming a springboard for Nazi invasion, strikes a deal with the Nazis to divide Poland in two, so that Soviet Union and Nazi Germany can have a common border. You know, the closer you hug them, the less can they move. Smart, very smart. Then, Stalin lures Germany into attacking Russia by killing Tuchacevsky and about 40,000 Red Army officers. Double smart. Then, you feed the German war machine 8 million Russian soldiers and 20 million civilians, so that Germany could be pushed back to Central Europe. Now, that's a whammy. You see, after Germany is done with, the rest is, phew, piece of cake. SU can claim that it was Germany's fault, all along (wink!). Or am I missing something? Hello, is this thing on? (Sorry, I am worse than lt. Columbo, I always forget something. The 40,000 Polish officers executed at Katyn were actually, how should I put it, saved, maybe, from certain death at Auszwitz? Dr. Kevorkian, rejoice, you are not the only one on the planet who has seen the truth.) --(unsigned by anon)

In light of Victor Suvorov's books I'd say it is a bit hard to believe Stalin did not plan to invade Europe. I am an Ukrainian who actually lived in the SU. I do not believe for a single nanosecond that Stalin was not interested on Europe, and then world hegemony. -- Denis Vlasenko

Mainly deletions in several parts
CJK, would you please elaborate why you consider the article improved after you mainly deleted text from it (you laso edited some but not much). It is not clear from your edit summaries and I don't want to simply revert since I assume your persistence is for some good reasons. Please don't take this personally, just explain your deletions. Thanks! --Irpen 02:03, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention, I agree with your edit about Berlin blockade. That left the facts in and removed the analysis which may or may not be valid. I still question the rationale of your other deletion. Regards, --Irpen 02:08, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * I deleted the part about "American rhetoric" because, although in some cases true, I felt that it was being used here to excuse Soviet actions in the Cold War. -CJK
 * I disagree. It is true, relevant and it is up to the reader whether it is an "excuse". In fact, no reasonable person would accept such an excuse. --Irpen 03:36, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, the purpose of the insertion was to portray America as the bad guy (as usual). The section does not even mention Soviet Rhetoric. CJK
 * It was not my insertion but I view its purpose is to bring in a proper context. You are welcome to try adding the info about the Soviet rhetoric if you view this deficient. --Irpen

Restoring now after waiting for objection. Feel free to add info about the Soviet rhetoric. -Irpen 20:48, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * About Greece, the government was not authoritarian until 1967, I believe, and will provide sources if requested. CJK
 * You are right, but it was right-wing and anticommunist. I edited that now. ---Irpen
 * You still labeled it a "corrupt autocracy". CJK
 * Please don't twist what it said. As for "corrupt" the chapter didn't use this word at all. And "autocracy" was in the next paragraph with "at times". As presented in the article, it does not need to apply to Greece specifically. Do you deny that there were autocracies among the regimes the US was aiding during the policy of containment? Please read more carefully and only then make claims of what was said. --Irpen
 * Exactly when was the Greek government an "autocracy at times"? CJK 6 August 2005

I will try to make sure this is said more clearly that other regimes are meant. -Irpen 20:48, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * The last paragraph was deleted because it was essentialy redundant about the containment policy above. Also the insertion that the Soviets made "no aggressive moves" is out of touch with reality. CJK 5 April 2005
 * It was not redundant but sums it up which is good for the reader. As for "no aggressive moves" thing, the paragraph never said it. It was about calculated moves and it made perfect sense. Remember the context, the country's devastated by the war, it had to choose the priorities and had to choose where to push and were to withdraw. Remember, this wasn't a general statement about Soviet international policy. The paragraph is specifically about the time it describes. Things did change later, of course. --Irpen 07:06, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * The paragraph has specifically said the Soviets made no aggressive moves except those that concerned its "security" which is a typical Communist lie. -CJK
 * I what way was it a lie? The prioroties were chosen in accordance with what the gov viewed more important. The way it's phrased does not justify this cynicism, which is universal btw (to different degrees though). Saying this directly would be a tautology. The meaning is that the Soviets calculated their policies at the time and this is correct. It takes much faster for the countries that don't bother doing such calculations to collapse than it took for the SU.
 * It specifically implies that Soviet moves to set up puppet regimes in Eastern Europe, aiding Communist groups around the world, blockading Berlin, and threatening Turkey are "not aggressive". CJK 6 August 2005

It doesn't imply anything like that. This does not deny the Soviets made aggressive moves when they viewed their security was at stake. It just said that they withdrew when they viewed they could afford to. The way the article had it didn't justify the aggressive policies in E Europe at all and even less so the article denied it. --Irpen 20:48, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * And the other section paragraph is redundant as this is not an article about U.S. policy. CJK
 * Yes, this is not the article about the US policy but US policies was relevant to the Soviet policies at that time. Following this logic, go delete the third pargraph from History of the United States (1945-1964) and explain there that the article about the US and not SU and enjoy the responses.
 * Fine, if you feel it absolutely must be there than do so. CJK 6 August 2005

I am glad we agree on some things too. I don't feel that this exacct version has to be there but the passage about the context is necessary. I will restore it for now. You are welcome to try to edit it. --Irpen 20:48, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * So you just reverted to your deletions unaltered! Unbeleivable! Suggested reading to begin with: "...but don't be reckless!" chapter of the "Be bold!" Wikipedia guideline. It's just a few paragraphs long. --Irpen 23:19, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

What is so "unbeleiveable" about deleting material that I have already explained is incorrect? CJK 6 August 2005

 * Did you read the links above? Note that in the previous time, I didn't revert you. Moreover, editing the article after your changes, I took some of them as entirely valid, as follows:
 * "Uninterested in pushing" vs "did not push" (substitution of fact by analysis)
 * anachronistic usage of "autocrasy" to pre-67 Greece
 * Berlin wall issue: again kept the facts, cut the analysis
 * Please read my responses given within our previous dialog and justify your complete revert seriously or, better yet, offer a constructive edit. I've seen you doing that in different articles and there is no need to start another revert war. Looking forward to your suggestions. --Irpen 02:34, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * As per above I am restoring some of the material and editing some to taking into account CJK's statements. Regards, --Irpen 20:48, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * You reinserted the "no aggressive moves" which I deleted. CJK 6 August 2005
 * It was and remains with qualification: "When security was not at stake". --Irpen 21:42, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * And Soviet "security" concerns caused it to take over Eastern Europe and aid Communist groups? I don't think so. CJK 6 August 2005
 * No less that US security conserns caused it to aid anti-communist, at time authoritarian, groups. I see you already deleted again! Look, why are you so defiant? Just take a breath and re-read the discussion. I will wait with restoring for some time. Thank you. --Irpen 21:55, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * The difference being the Soviet Union "feared" something that didn't even exist (a revived Nazi Germany). Of course, if they thought that Germany was slipping back to the old ways they would have every right to intervene, but taking over every country they came in contact with because of a threat that they thought would exist in the future is totally unjustified. CJK 6 August 2005

The Soviets were getting fearful not of another Nazi Germany. But they had every reason to be conserned about the anti-Soviet block being built. This is completely separate from the subject of "who was worse". Soviets perceived a whole Europe getting allied against it under the US leadership as a real threat and acted. It was cynical, yes, immoral towards the Eastern Europeans, yes, but all geopolitics is cynical and immoral. But even this is beside the point. The paragraph says, the soviets were aggresive to defend their interest when the viewed them vital and withdrew when they thought they could afford to. All this means is that the regime was not stupid and does not imply it was moral or good. It does imply that they were not conserned with the world revolution anymore, but this is more or less an accepted view. Please remember, who had the upper hand in all this and who ultimately won in this stand-off. The containment policy, moral judgements aside, utlimately worked and Soiets perceived it dangerour from the start. You can say that they provoked it themselves, but this is again going into who was right/wrong argumentation. You are welcome to restore this thought in a different phrasing, but a simple deletion of pieces of article with vital information is not making it better. --Irpen 22:21, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * But the article is stating this as a fact. And if we insert that this is an opinion, we would have to give Nazi Germany's claim of taking over Europe to "protect" Germany serious as well. And it did say the Soviets feared a revived Germany by the 1960s. CJK 6 August 2005
 * Nothing about the revived Germany is said in the paragraph you deleted. Please assume and exemplify good faith. And Nazi Germany claims were different at its time and it is a totally diferent thing from this issue. Please reread our discussion. Thank you. --Irpen 22:39, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * Its not "different". All dictatorships claim they do things for "defensive" reasons. CJK 6 August 2005

I see you are persisting. Fine, I will give it a cool off period. In the meanwhile, I still suggest you review our earlier discussion and the article's edit history. Regards, --Irpen 22:49, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, thinking more of it, I edited the paragraph instead of restoring it. I hope you find it acceptable. I will be happy to see good faith correction, but I view the fast-hand deletions as unconstructive. Generally, I am not sure this minor changes in the article was worth so much of the editors' time, but I will be glad if the new version is found more acceptable. --Irpen 03:06, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

posted from CJK's talk page by Irpen: OK, but there should be at least a paragraph explaining the West's objection to the Soviet claim. CJK 7 August 2005
 * What "claim"? Withdrawing from Iran and Czechoslovakia in 40s, non-interference in Greece and backing up from Finland isn't a claim. I could see a paragraph about "Soviet Rhetoric" you suggested earleir for the next chapter but I don't see it here. You can try, of course, to do either, and, as you know, it may be subjected to constructive criticizm, same as our discussion above. OTOH, maybe we could leave this alone for now. With spending so much time on this discussion and rewritings, the later version differs from an original so little, that I am not sure it was worth it. And this is not because there was not enough compromise, but perhaps, the article is already close enough to an optimal balance. Of course, there is always a room for improvement but there are so many articles that are in much more dire shape and there is so much interesting material that needs to be added to WP, so that I would like to work on other things too in the limited time I have for WP. Regards, --Irpen 19:49, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

I meant the claim of Soviet aggression only being done for "security" purposes. CJK 7 August 2005
 * I already changed the security in the article to "perceived security". This cast enough doubt on the Soviet geopolical view. And actually it was not necessary, since it goes without saying that all geopolitical thinking is based on perceptions. In the climate of cold war all perceptions were just the opposite. If Soviets thought A, the West thought B and vise versa. I really can't spend anymore time on this now. I would really feel bad if anyone starts over with tearing pieces off this article. These arguments completed a couple of circles by now. I urge all parties to read the talk page and check the history before editing. Three short paragraphs at Be bold#...but don't be reckless about deletions and making use of history and talk is an extremely useful reading. I hope, the article will stay at its near FA level. Irpen 21:18, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

I have to side with CJK here, the USSR did much more than secure its western border (although that was part of it,) it actively fomented Communist revolution. While we can debate the motives stuff like the Czech coup, Greece, Turkey, and the Korean War cannot all be based on "the Soviet Union needed to secure itself from future invasions." J. Parker Stone 22:34, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Irpen, the restored paragraph sounds pro-"pragmatic Stalin" editorializing really. and c'mon with the "corrupt, British-led Greek monarchy." perhaps we should reference Eastern Europe with "despotic, Soviet-controlled totalitarian regimes"? this is not the place for POV characterizations. J. Parker Stone 22:37, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The USSR's actively fomenting the Communist revolution at that time is not an accepted view in the field (at least about the world revolution). "Czech coup", Greece, Turkey and Korea? Exactly as per article, the Soviets persisted with installing the regime at its border and had to (or chose to) withdraw when viewed that the scarce resources are better spent elsewhere. This does not mean that they would not do it if the could. But the price seemed too steep. For a Greek monarchy of that time, the word "corrupt" sounds too harsh? Fine, replace it with a better one. "Corrupt" is a less POV term than your example of "despotic, Soviet-controlled totalitarian regimes", which is a generalization too. Anyway, as I said at CJK's talk page, I really tried my best in this long discussion. Perhaps, I was all wrong and the article needs an anti-Soviet balance. I am glad other editors are joining at last. --Irpen 02:53, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

New Section: "Soviet expansion and domination in E. Europe
I have created a short new section here that will deal with the Soviet takeover of Eatern Europe which can hopefully be expanded upon. CJK 19:20, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I will go over the new section later. In the meanwhile, find any quote where Stalin or other Soviet leader makes a public "claim", as you wrote. Until then, "perception" is the right word. You may add some discussion that such perception was baseless, hypocritical or paranoid, as per the source you find (no reader is interested in Wikipedia editor's own thoughts in the article).

 * Also, the "war-torn" is very relevant for post-war situation in SU and you would have to justify its removal. --Irpen 21:05, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * The section read that the Stalin perceived the threat and therefore took over Eastern Europe in response to his perceptions. The problem is, it is pure speculation whether or not he actually "perceived" anything as he could of just made it up for an excuse. Therefore a "claim" would be a more accurate word to use in this instance. I'll put the "war torn" back in. CJK 21:19, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

As per above, you are welcome to find a quote where he makes such a claim. Your "excuse part" is legitimate and can be added if you can write about it. It is legitimate to question the idea that what Soviets did was for the security (in fact, it was probably a smaller part of their motivation), but you cannot question it "on your own". I am sure, you can find an authoritative opinions on that, an then, add this to an article. I will try to find something too. --Irpen 21:44, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * All I am saying is that this is a claim made by a dictator who killed millions of people and therefore it should not be taken as a completely legitimate opinion, particularly considering that the "securing" was done to prevent invasion by Western nations even though the West was far from prepared for this considering mass demobilization following the end of World War II. CJK 22:09, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

CJK, the "claim", as you call it, may be questioned for many reasons but killing millions by Stalin isn't one of them. You are right, however, to look for a darker motives of the Soviet government rather than taking what's on the surface at face value. Note, however, that the Soviets did have reasons to get extra-cautious. The country was devastated. Fulton speech was soon pronounced, US emerged from the war as the only superpower without any desire to see a competitor to grow and challenge it in the near or distant future. Again, this is not to say that Stalin was trustworthy of course. That's why the suspicions of the west made it to the article too.

Finally, I think that the expanded version of the section deserves an article on its own. I just shortened the detailed history of takeover to a statement that it did happen along the similar pattern in this and that country. Your original version with details about PL, RO, CS, etc., is a good encyclopedic story but too much detail for this article. We wanted to say that the Soviets sponsored a series of takeovers and we did so. This belongs to the H of SU article but the details of each coup belong elsewhere. --Irpen 22:22, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * The reason the claim is questionable was more about Stalin being a dictator and hence not extremely reliable as a source. Again, I question the idea that the West was menacing the Soviet Union in WWIIs immediate aftermath, as I said the Soviets were the ones with the huge army and thus the idea that the West could have invaded the Soviets after demobilization is dubious. CJK 22:36, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

As a ruthless dictator Stalin was more sort of "evil" but in the world affairs he was exactly as much honest or rather dishonest as any politician of his time. Geopolitics is an extremely cynical business and examples are abundant. We may question his motives not because he was a bad guy, but because the reality contradicted the words and actions deviated from promises, but no less than Churchill's or Truman's, for that matter (again, I am speaking only about foreign policy here). So, let's not bring the argument here about what a bastard Stalin was. It's just not what makes us suspect that something was fishy here. When making a long-term policy, the leaders have to consider further than immediate threats. The Soviets had enough, so to speak, with their neighbors being in the orbit of the, so called "imperialists". They also were happy to expand, as they could, but who would not? The world revolution thinking, however, was clearly an anachronism. The concept by that time was to build Socialism/Communism in a state of its own in a capitalist environment. And the reality is that the CPSU installed the regimes of their liking on their borders but, backed off elsewhere. As pointed out earlier, they backed of for the combination of two reasons: Greece, Turkey, Iran were less vital for their interests (1) and they had to choose were to commit the scarce resources (2). I don't see why you consider the current version not neutral. It can be improved but mainly in terms of details and style, but not by adding more anti-Soviet POV "for the balance". If you are unwilling, I will try to set aside a little time and spin-off the section into a more detailed article. But I have two or three projects high on my list and this policy article is already taking the time, I would rather spend elsewhere. I would be glad if other editors joined this discussion and took over but this doesn't seem to be happening. With best regards, --Irpen 00:54, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

It is not "anti-Soviet" to question the legitimacy of Stalin's claims any more than its "anti-German" to question the motivations for Hitler's invasion of Poland. The only thing I don't want is for this to be portrayed as "poor Stalin had to secure his borders because of the evil West". Calling it "perceived" takes Stalin's word for it that there was a realistic threat, of which there was little. CJK 17:26, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't. Calling it 'perceived" makes it look that Stalin thought it could be a realistic threat at some point. Whoever wrote it, judging from professional writing, knew what he was talking about. I believe it was 172 and we could ask him, if you doubt the sources that assert this. I am not a native speaker but it seems to me that there is a difference between saying that "there was a perception" and "there was a reality". --Irpen 17:36, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Just checked again. Look at your section I rewrote yesterday. It ends with: "The idea that these actions were necessary to secure Soviet western border was viewed in the west as hypocritical. It was rather viewed as an attempt to spread Communism and pro-Soviet governments throughout Europe." All doubts are already there, arent' they? --Irpen 18:22, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * True, but just in that particular section. And I think it is doubtful, or at least it should not be stated as fact, that Stalin took over Eastern Europe because he "perceived" a threat that would develop in 20 years. CJK 18:44, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

 * For the sake of compromise I'll leave it but make additional changes to the text. CJK 20:37, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

CJK, I find your recent edits reasonable. One q. though, are you sure that Soviet troops re-entered CS in '48? It may just be my ignorance, though. Thanks! --Irpen 20:42, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

 * I am not entirely certain, and I have edited that point out. Thank you. CJK 17:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Issue with text as is

 * In addition, the Soviets never forgot their requests that the United States and Britain open a second front on the European continent; but the Allied invasion did not occur until June 1944, more than two years after the Soviets had demanded it. In the meantime, the Russians suffered horrendous casualties, as high as twenty million dead, and the Soviets were forced to withstand the brunt of German strength.

Was this a real Soviet complaint? Were the Soviets truly "upset" that a second European front was no opened till D-Day (when in actuality it was Italy, but Whatever)? Surely the Soviets relaized that in order for the Allies to assault the European continent, years of planning and logisitics would have to be arranged, especialy when one considers what happened at Dieppe. Where is the source for this, it stirkes me a bit odd. DTC 17:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes. In 1942, the Soviets were desperate for help and very worried about the military situation.  In 1943, the were also upset, not then entirely due to their military situation, which by that time was improving, but because the war was so costly; they wanted the Allies to share the load.  Stalin (my source here is Churchill's memoirs) was most upset the Second Front wasn't going to happen, but he seemed pretty happy with Italy as an alternative. Toby Douglass 16:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Text is pro-Stalin
I've just begun reading the document, and I've only really read the "Changes in Soviet Society" section, where I've added some realism and information about the costs and injustice of the improvements in Soviet society. My view is that this text is extremely pro-Stalin. It turns a completely blind eye to the terrible crimes he committed, the atrocities and death which fueled these improvements. Toby Douglass 16:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone who wrote a good deal of the doument is a Stalinist apologist. I can see some editing bringing the text back to reality, though. Toby Douglass 16:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Simply because the author doesnt adopt anti-communism or a "Stalin = Evil" stance as their default position on these historical events does not inherently mean they are pro-Stalin. This black and white, us vs them, good vs evil way of thinking has demonstrated deficiencies for dealing with a world that is often (usually) far more complex than their cognitive immaturity is capable of processing accurately. Perhaps the best advice I can presently give them is this line from the article itself: "In a secret 1950 document, NSC-68, they (USG) proposed to strengthen their alliance systems, quadruple defense spending, and embark on an elaborate propaganda campaign(my bold)to persuade Americans to fight this costly cold war."

What this means is a great deal of what many Americans consider common undisputed facts about soviet ideals, aims, goals, military designs, weaknesses, etc, are in fact pure, unadulterated BS told you by a sector of USG designed to keep tax dollars flowing into military R&D, intel technologies, etc. Know this, and seek out the beliefs you may hold that may be nothing more than bogeyman stories. Mycos 07:26, 11 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mycos (talk • contribs)

In reference to the edits of November 9, I am concerned that much of what was changed is now POV in content or tone (or spelling, as in the capitalization of "the State"). I will make changes slowly, so there is room for discussion of individual items. Jd2718 00:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

War section needs some reorganisation
The section on the "Great Patriotic War" (what a corny name) needs some shuffling and adding to. After an opening on general stuff, it goes into "wartime developments" and talks about the level of preparation of the Red Army. ... But then it shifts into 1939-40 stuff, before the USSR was invaded! Basically, I think a new section needs to be added before this Great Patriotic War section, discussing Soviet-Nazi diplomacy in the '30s and Soviet aggression in the early stages of World War II. Then a new section starts with Operation Barbarossa and how prepared the Soviets were. I guess I'll start this tomorrow. Brutannica 07:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 * O.K., I did the necessary shuffling. I did it in the fashion that made the most sense to me; if someone else thinks differently, let 'em do it, but at least the page now is an improvement. The biggest gap is the "foreign relations before 1941" I created. The USSR was part of the strenuous diplomatic efforts of the '30s and a few paragraphs on its negotiations with Nazi Germany and France would be essential. Brutannica 23:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The beginning of the Cold War
This section is pure rubbish - whoever wrote it has NO idea WHATSOEVER of Sovet policy with regard to non-communist States.

The Soviets were thinking in terms of communism; the struggle between the working class and the rich. Their entire policy was to encourage conflict between these two classes with the goal of encouraging war as a mean to achieve social change.

I quote from the article;

''The wherewithal of the United States to advance a different vision of the postwar world conflicted with Soviet interests. National security had been the real cornerstone of Soviet policy since the 1920s, when the Communist Party adopted Stalin's "socialism in one country" and rejected Trotsky's ideas of "world revolution." Before the war, Stalin did not attempt to push Soviet boundaries beyond their full Tsarist extent.''

National security in the Western sense was never the cornerstone of Soviet policy, EVER. Soviet policy was about the pursuit and support of the class struggle. This means *war*. Soviet armies were always massive - far, far greater than would ever have been required for national security.

In this sense, the aims of the Soviet Union may not have been aggressive expansionism but rather consolidation, i.e. attempting to secure the war−torn country's western borders.

Complete and utter bilge. Whoever wrote this is Western, thinking in Western terms and trying to put a gloss onto Soviet actions because they want the Soviets to look acceptable. The Soviets *simply did not think in Western terms*. Like most Western Soviet apologists, there is here a fundamental failure to comprehend the Soviet worldview.

''Disagreements over postwar plans first centered on Eastern and Central Europe. Having lost 20 million dead in the war, suffered German and Nazi German invasion, and suffered tens of millions of casualties due to onslaughts from the West three times in the preceding 150 years, first with Napoleon, the Soviet Union was determined to destroy Germany's capacity for another war by keeping it under tight control. U.S. aims were quite opposed, since they would require a democratic restored Germany as a trade and perhaps military partner.''

Actually, for the first two years after the war, US aims were to entirely subjugate Germany. This stopped because it was realised as entirely impractical and because the Soviets were becoming a danger.

''Russia's historic lack of warm water maritime access, a perennial concern of Russian foreign policy well before the Bolshevik Revolution, was also a focus for Russia, yet another area where interests diverged between East and West. Stalin pressed the Turks for improved access out of the Black Sea through Turkey's Dardanelles Strait, which would allow Soviet passage from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. Churchill had earlier recognized Stalin's claims, but now the British and Americans forced the Soviet Union to pull back.''

Churchill always was absolutely in favour of warm water access for the USSR - "a country the size of Russia must have a warm water port". Unfortunately, the British were incredibly stupid and voted him out of office just as the war ended, so he was not involved in post-war negotiations.

''But when the Soviet leadership did not perceive the country's security was at stake, the policies were more measured: the Soviet Union eventually withdrew from Northern Iran, at Anglo−American behest; Stalin did observe his 1944 agreement with Churchill and did not aid the communists in the struggle against government in Greece; in Finland he accepted a friendly, non−communist government; and Russian troops were withdrawn from Czechoslovakia by the end of 1945. However, a pro−Soviet government seized power in Czechoslovakia three years later.''

The Greek agreement was never an agreement. Churchill made it clear that post-war influence must be settled properly once the fighting was over. However, in the interim, as these countries were over-run, there had to be a temporary agreement for spheres of influence. This was duly done - and Greece was 90% Allied, 10% Russian. Stalin adhered to this agreement, which wasn't the agreement at all.

Toby Douglass 16:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Someone has vandalized the article ("hi" at the top of the page). I can't yet edit articles, I'm new here. Can someone remove it ? Thanks. Vadim from Russia Stalker 1986 (talk) 11:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism removed Stalker 1986 (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Adding the Polish Deportations
The details about the Baltic deportations have been on this page for more than 2 years. Why then are the deportations of Poles not on this page? Jniech (talk) 13:40, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Only so many editors to go around that care. Perhaps a brief summary out of the Population Transfers article? —PētersV (talk) 14:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Had a quick look at the article on deportations but it needs a lot of work. The deportations from the Baltic in this article are not mention there as such.  The deportation of Poles is grouped with Germans but to my knowledge the Germans citizens of Soviet Union were sent west not east like the Polish citizens.

 * I repeat, as the Baltic deportation have been in this article for two years why waste time debating the addition of Polish deportations in the same format? Jniech (talk) 17:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Sorry, not debating, suggesting where information might already be available. I'm away from home and from my references at the moment. :-) —PētersV (talk) 21:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Did you see my version before it was removed?

 * The Soviets quelled opposition by executions and by arresting thousands. They sent hundreds of thousands (estimates vary) to Siberia and other remote parts of the USSR in four major waves of deportations between 1939 and 1941. (see Soviet invasion of Poland (1939))

 * It basically has the same format as the Baltic deportations which been on this page for two years. Jniech (talk) 11:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

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Minor contribution in one section
Regarding the 18th Party Congress, I believe it was Litvinov that praised Stalin and criticized the Western Powers for their failure to adopt "collective security". I have so edited the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.86.68 (talk) 18:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Estimates about Polish deportations
Not sure what the issue is with the originally statement saying “They sent hundreds of thousands (estimates vary)” which I felt summarized the general thinking i.e. why any citation is needed. Anyway I have replaced it with a longer version complete with references. Jniech (talk) 15:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Hunger
The article deosn't inform about starvation of millions. The title "The Soviet state's development" is POV, kind of "The Nazi state development".Xx236 (talk) 07:28, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) It does. 2) Why POV? Grey Hood   Talk  15:56, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't proprtionally inform about drawbacks of the Soviet policy, wchich make the article POV. Generally people don't call an extermination "development". Only fanatics do.Xx236 (talk) 11:21, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

development of industrial power
It wasn't rational industrialization but construction of war industry and militarization of the Soviet society. The Red Army was the biggest and best armed army of the world in 1941.Xx236 (talk) 11:41, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Deaths caused by First Five Year Plan
I'm by no means an active editor, so I won't make any edits for fear they're unwarranted, but I don't see this addressed anywhere on this talk page. The current text under "Planning" says: "Despite approximately 1,000,000 deaths...", referring to the First Five Year Plan. Given that the first Plan was revised to include collectivization, which caused around six million deaths alone, should this figure not be updated? A number of citations can be easily found on other related pages. Xensity (talk) 05:52, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Very inappropriate beginning introduction sentence
"He also promoted a secret police and a mass mobilization party, which led to millions of deaths as a result of purges and policies of starvation to force farmers to submit."

Specifically the part about policies of starvation to force farmers to submit. You need to supply sources to back up that claim; MANY scholars reject it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.158.163.211 (talk) 03:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * let's name these mystery scholars. Compare: Miron Dolot (2011) says "Seven million people in the 'breadbasket of Europe' were deliberately starved to death at Stalin's command." Gunn, says: "Ukraine catastrophe November 1932: A terror famine in the old Soviet Union killed more than ten million people....the kulaks, opposed the plan for collective farming, so Stalin decided to starve them into submission." see for elaborate detail and biliog on p 330. Also see The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine by Robert Conquest (1987) Rjensen (talk) 05:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

You must joke. Check out "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor" WIKIPEDIA'S own page on this topic. Read the introductory paragraphs dude. Seriously. Stop trying to make all history whitewashed into pro USA conservative propaganda please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.158.163.211 (talk) 06:24, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Industrialisation in practice - Western technology
Soviet Union bought technology from several Western countries, please verify. Xx236 (talk) 10:38, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Henry Ford opened the "Gorky Automobile Factory" GAZ and brought in his engineers and top mechanics, including Walter Reuther.  see https://books.google.com/books?id=Rl6ApEbSsDAC&pg=PA261   British engineers built the Moscow Metro (subway). see Michael Robbins, "London Underground and Moscow Metro," Journal of Transport History, (1997) 18#1 pp 45-53.  Rjensen (talk) 12:18, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe such informations should be included. The recent page suggest total autarchy.
 * NKVD crimes against foreigners should be mentioned.Xx236 (talk) 12:25, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * During the years 1939-41 Germany delivered machine tools, which helped to produce new tanks and fighter planes.Xx236 (talk) 05:42, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

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Proposed merge with The 1930's in Soviet Russia
This article is a WP:CFORK of our main page on the history of the Soviet Union during the 30s, 40s, and 50s, and should be merged accordingly. It appears to be an educational assignment, which may be why it is a content fork. Izno (talk) 20:39, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Target article will not be too lengthy even after merging. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:52, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Support/Done I went through the "1930s" article and the only content which wasn't already addressed in this article was a paragraph about writer's organizations in the USSR, which I've added to the Domestic Events section. The rest of the content is essay-like summaries of content expressed in greater detail here, so I think we can safely redirect the article. signed,Rosguill talk 21:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:52, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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Great Patriotic War
The claim that "Contrary to popular belief, the USSR's high casualties was not the result of poor Red Army performance, but due to poor treatment of Red Army POWs in German camps" should be removed as I had try to do earlier as it is not directly stated in Glantz's works; it is WP:OR. Glantz said on a podcast that Stalin and Zhukov "ruthlessly expend[ed] manpower" to defeat the "more experienced, battle-worthy, savvy Wehrmacht", crediting this as one of the main reasons why the USSR took such high losses. In his other works, he also notes failures on both sides and different phases of the war where the initiative switches between the combatants. He doesn't make the claim that the Red Army only took high casualties because of POW deaths. Furthermore, POW deaths are disputed with estimates varying such as in Krivosheev's works that are referenced by Glantz. Originalcola (talk) 16:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)


text:
Mark Oliver Everett

Mark Oliver Everett (born April 10, 1963) is an American singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and the frontman of the rock band Eels. Also known as E, he is known for writing songs tackling subjects such as death, loneliness, divorce, childhood innocence, depression, and unrequited love, often from personal experience.

Early life
Everett is the son of physicist Hugh Everett III, originator of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Mark's maternal grandfather was Harold "Kid" Gore, a men's basketball, football and baseball coach at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

When Everett was in his early teens, he was attending a concert by English rock band The Who when a special effects laser struck him directly in the eye and, as a result, he has needed to wear glasses ever since.

Everett's father died of a heart attack when Everett was 19. Mark was the one to find him. Everett later made a documentary about his father's theory and his relationship with him, Parallel Worlds, Parallel Lives, for the BBC. It aired on the PBS series NOVA in 2008.

E
In 1987, Everett moved from his family home in Virginia and settled in California. There, Everett began his professional musical career with two major-label albums: A Man Called E (1992) and Broken Toy Shop (1993). The pseudonym "E" was used for both of these early recordings. He became known as "E" because there were several people in his life at the time who had the same first name.

Eels
In 1995, Everett formed the band Eels in Los Angeles. Their studio albums include Beautiful Freak (1996), Electro-Shock Blues (1998), Daisies of the Galaxy (2000), Souljacker (2001), Shootenanny! (2003), Blinking Lights and Other Revelations (2005), Hombre Lobo: 12 Songs of Desire (2009), End Times (2010), Tomorrow Morning (2010), Wonderful, Glorious (2013), The Cautionary Tales of Mark Oliver Everett (2014), The Deconstruction (2018), Earth to Dora (2020), Extreme Witchcraft (2022), and Eels Time! (2024). Hombre Lobo, End Times and Tomorrow Morning form a trilogy, focusing on "lust, loss and redemption".

In film
Everett's music has been featured in a number of films, including American Beauty ("Cancer for the Cure"), Scream 2 ("Your Lucky Day in Hell"), Road Trip ("Mr. E's Beautiful Blues"), Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas ("Christmas is Going to the Dogs"), Holes ("Eyes Down", "Mighty Fine Blues"), Shrek ("My Beloved Monster"), Shrek 2 ("I Need Some Sleep"), Shrek the Third ("Royal Pain" and "Losing Streak"), Shrek the Halls ("The Stars Shine in the Sky Tonight"), Hellboy II: The Golden Army ("Beautiful Freak"), Henry Poole is Here ("Love of the Loveless"), The Big White (“I Want to Protect You”, "Last Stop: This Town"), Hot Fuzz ("Souljacker Part 1"), The Big Year ("I Like Birds"), as well as most of the music in Yes Man. Additionally, his song "Fresh Blood" (off Hombre Lobo) forms the music played over the credits of HBO's The Jinx.

Everett plays an acoustic version of the Eels song "What I Have to Offer" in a deleted scene from This Is 40 (2012) and follows his performance by telling Rudd's record executive character that the band has decided to sign a contract with a competing label.

Other works
Although he has denied it, Everett is suspected of working under the alias MC Honky, who released the album I Am the Messiah in 2003.

The 2007 BBC Scotland / BBC Four television documentary Parallel Worlds, Parallel Lives followed Everett as he talked to physicists and his father's former colleagues about his father's theory. The documentary won a Royal Television Society award on March 19, 2008. The documentary was shown in lieu of a support act during their UK, US, Irish and Australian tours in the spring of 2008. In the U.S., the PBS program Nova broadcast the documentary in October 2008.

In November 2007, Everett published his autobiography, entitled Things the Grandchildren Should Know.

On February 19, 2016, Everett appeared as Brian in Season 1, Episode 4 ("A Party in the Hills") of Judd Apatow's Love, playing a cover of Paul McCartney's song "Jet". He also briefly appeared in Season 1, Episode 9, Season 2, Episode 2 and Season 3, Episode 6. He had a small cameo in Bill & Ted Face the Music (2020). He has a brief cameo with his dog in the opening sequence of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.

Personal life
Everett's sister, Elizabeth, died by suicide in 1996, and in 1998, his mother, Nancy Everett (née Gore), was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. The lyrics of Eels' second album, Electro-Shock Blues, focused extensively on these events.

In 2000, Everett married Natalia Kovaleva, a Russian dentist he met near Hamburg, Germany. The marriage ended after five years. Following Eels' tour accompanying their album The Cautionary Tales of Mark Oliver Everett, Everett took a break from music. During this period, he met and married a Scottish woman employed in the film industry. At the age of 54, Everett became a father for the first time when his wife gave birth to their son, Archie McGregor Everett. The couple, however, divorced some time later.

Everett's cousin, Jennifer Lewis (née Gore), was a flight attendant who perished on American Airlines Flight 77, the plane that struck the Pentagon during the September 11 attacks in 2001. The plane struck the side of the Pentagon where his father had worked, and Everett remarks in his autobiography that he wonders whether the plane hit his father's old office.

In July 2014, Everett was given the Freedom of the City of London, at a ceremony held prior to his concert at the Barbican Centre.

Everett has described himself as an agnostic, but he has also explicitly used language thanking God.

title: Mark Oliver Everett


text:
Braastad

Braastad is a brand of cognac. It's a range of product from the cognac House Tiffon. The name Braastad was introduced when Sverre Braastad (1879 – May 16, 1979) from Gjøvik, Norway, married the daughter of cognac producer Tiffon, Edith Rousseau, in 1913, and took over Tiffon, founded by Médéric Rousseau in 1875. The home of Braastad and Tiffon is Château de Triac. It is situated in the cru Petite Champagne in the cognac area, France.

The Braastad brand is owned by the Norwegian spirits company Arcus AS, which also is a minority shareholder of Tiffon.

Products

 * V.S.
 * V.S.O.P. (Winner of "Trophy Award 2003" at "International Wine and Spirits Competition")
 * X.O. Fine Champagne
 * X.O Supérieur
 * Château de Triac Réserve de la Famille (average 50 year maturing period)
 * Braastad 100 Ans de Liberté
 * My Selection
 * Organic

Chateau de Triac
The home of Braastad and Tiffon is Château de Triac. It is situated in the cru Petite Champagne in the cognac area, France.

title: Braastad


text:
User talk:Campdavid

Welcome
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia.

You might find these links helpful in creating new pages or helping with the above tasks: How to edit a page, How to write a great article, Naming conventions, Manual of Style. You should read our policies at some point too.

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

 * If you made any edits before you got an account, you might be interested in assigning those to your username.

 * You can sign your name using three tildes, like this: . If you use four, you can add a datestamp too.

 * If you ever think a page or image should be deleted, please list it at the votes for deletion page. There is also a votes for undeletion page if you want to retrieve something that you think should not have been deleted.

Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 13:55, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

PS: You are User:Campdavid, not User:CampDavid. Wikipedia is case-sensitive.

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Campdavid


text:
User talk:Tom-

Main Page Redesign Draft 5 Now Open For Editing In Preparation Of Draft 6
We're transforming Draft 5 into Draft 6 for the next round of voting which starts Saturday. You are welcome to join in on the fun. CSS will make the source less accessible to the rest of the editors on this project, so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't apply anything esoteric on the draft. That header from your original draft was almost impossible to work with because only sysadmins have access to the css file that the classes and ids are on. And most of us working on the draft are not sysadmins. Thanks you, and let's have some fun! --Go for it! 02:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

What about using the Puzzle Globe (without the logo) as background?
...centering it (or off-centering it?) behind the title and navbar. Just a thought. Can you do something like that? I don't know how to work with background images. --Go for it! 02:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Can the article title be disabled on a particular page?

 * (copied from the village pump:)

Hi. I'm on the Main Page Redesign team. I'm looking into possibly turning off the title (H1 heading?) at the top of the page we are working on. We need to see what the Main Page Redesign Draft would look like without the page name showing up on the screen. What is the link to the the documentation on this? --Go for it! 20:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You already have the answer: the same way you turned off the #siteSub, with a hack on MediaWiki:Monobook.js. There is no documentation, of course, since it's a hack. --cesarb 21:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Tom,

I'm not a sysadmin, and therefore don't have access to monobook.js. So I'm asking for your help. Would you turn off the page title on the WikiProject Usability/Main Page/Draft please? --Go for it! 23:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Background images
This is one potential design in the Main Page Redesign. Since you started off the redesign, and I am having a problem with the book and magnifying glass drawings that were part of your original design, I've got a question for you if you don't mind. We want to use the magnifying glass as well as the book, but when it is changed from yellow to white (via "EnWpMpSearch" --> "EnWpMpSearch2" in the code) it looks rather gray and ugly. How would one access the "EnWpMpSearch2" image file to alter it (eg, make the surroundings white or transparent, but keeping the color of the magnifying the same)? Zafiroblue05 00:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Main Page redesign
We are proud to bring you the final form of your Main Page redesign, with a final vote to ratify it. Remember to vote! Also, we're going to give you the honor of uploading the draft (if accepted) to the actual Main Page.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 00:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd like to call your attention (since I cite you) to my observations to DL. ;-)  hydnjo talk 00:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!
The Wikipedia Birthday Committee would like to ignore the fact that you're not here right now, and wish you a happy birthday! JaredW! 12:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Thank you very much Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Tom- 17:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

IE scrolling fixed
Hi, exactly what does this do, it it still needed and, if so, should it be put into IEFixes.js? —Ruud 19:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Spam in Wikipedia:Contact us/Contact a user
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Wikipedia:Contact us/Contact a user, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Wikipedia:Contact us/Contact a user is blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person that would require a substantial rewrite in order to become an encyclopedia article. To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Wikipedia:Contact us/Contact a user, please affix the template to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Please note, this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion, it did not nominate Wikipedia:Contact us/Contact a user itself. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot. --Android Mouse Bot 2 23:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Wikipedia:Introduction
A tag has been placed on Wikipedia:Introduction, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Mr. R00T (talk) 23:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

MfD nomination of WikiProject Usability/Main Page/Screenshots
WikiProject Usability/Main Page/Screenshots, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Usability/Main Page/Screenshots and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of WikiProject Usability/Main Page/Screenshots during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

interview request
Hello, My name is Natalia Ioana Olaru and I am a final year master student in the Corporate Communication programme at the Aarhus School of Business, Aarhus University, Denmark. I am currently working on my final paper on the topic of user motivation to create content on collaborative media websites, the focus being Wikipedia. As a sample I chose the English and Danish portals. I would like to invite you for an online interview on the topic of what motivates you, to participate in editing and creating articles for this platform. I plan on doing the actual interviews in the period between 1st and the 15th of May via Skype, MSN or Yahoo Messenger. I am, however, open to other channels of communication too. Please let me know if you would like to participate in this interview and the preferred channel.

Thank you, Natalia Olaru MulgaEscu (talk) 14:55, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Stacie Monroe
An article that you have been involved in editing, Stacie Monroe, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. SaveATreeEatAVegan 22:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Notification of pending suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity
Following a community discussion in June 2011, consensus was reached to provisionally suspend the administrative permissions of users who have been inactive for one year (i.e. administrators who have not made any edits or logged actions in over one year). As a result of this discussion, your administrative permissions will be removed pending your return if you do not return to activity within the next month. If you wish to have these permissions reinstated should this occur, please post to the Bureaucrats' noticeboard and the userright will be restored per the re-sysopping process (i.e., as long as the attending bureaucrats are reasonably satisfied that your account has not been compromised and that your inactivity did not have the effect of evading scrutiny of any actions which might have led to sanctions). This removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon you in any way. We wish you the best in future endeavors, and thank you for your past administrative efforts. MadmanBot (talk) 01:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Main Page discussion header
Template:Main Page discussion header has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:33, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Notification of imminent suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity
Following a community discussion in June 2011, consensus was reached to provisionally suspend the administrative permissions of users who have been inactive for one year (i.e. administrators who have not made any edits or logged actions in over one year). As a result of this discussion, your administrative permissions will be removed pending your return if you do not return to activity within the next several days. If you wish to have these permissions reinstated should this occur, please post to the Bureaucrats' noticeboard and the userright will be restored per the re-sysopping process (i.e., as long as the attending bureaucrats are reasonably satisfied that your account has not been compromised and that your inactivity did not have the effect of evading scrutiny of any actions which might have led to sanctions). This removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon you in any way. We wish you the best in future endeavors, and thank you for your past administrative efforts. MadmanBot (talk) 00:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity
Following a community discussion in June 2011, consensus was reached to provisionally suspend the administrative permissions of users who have been inactive for one year (i.e. administrators who have not made any edits or logged actions in over one year). As a result of this discussion, your administrative permissions have been removed pending your return. If you wish to have these permissions reinstated, please post to the Bureaucrats' noticeboard and the userright will be restored per the re-sysopping process (i.e. as long as the attending bureaucrats are reasonably satisfied that your account has not been compromised and that your inactivity did not have the effect of evading scrutiny of any actions which might have led to sanctions). This removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon you in any way. We wish you the best in future endeavors, and thank you for your past administrative efforts. WJBscribe (talk) 16:07, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Main Page discussion header
Template:Main Page discussion header has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Notice of change
Hello. You are receiving this message because of a [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Administrators&oldid=526254016#Restoration_of_the_tools_.28proposal.29 recent change] to the administrator policy that alters what you were told at the time of your desysopping. The effect of the change is that if you are inactive for a continuous three year period, you will be unable to request return of the administrative user right. This includes inactive time prior to your desysopping if you were desysopped for inactivity and inactive time prior to the change in policy. Inactivity is defined as the absence of edits or logged actions. Until such time as you have been inactive for three years, you may request return of the tools at the bureaucrats' noticeboard. After you have been inactive for three years, you may seek return of the tools only through WP:RFA. Thank you.  MBisanz  talk 00:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Files missing description details
Dear uploader: The media files you uploaded as: are missing a description and/or other details on their image description pages. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors make better use of the images, and they will be more informative to readers.
 * File:Discussion-tab.png
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 * File:History-example.png

If you have any questions, please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 15:49, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Main Page/CSS listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Main Page/CSS. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:Main Page/CSS redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Steel1943 (talk) 21:53, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:14, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

File:Wiktionary-logo-en-35px.png listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Wiktionary-logo-en-35px.png, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:53, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Discussion-tab.png

The file File:Discussion-tab.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Old orphaned esoteric file."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~ Rob 13 Talk 17:43, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:History-tab.png

The file File:History-tab.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Old orphaned esoteric file."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~ Rob 13 Talk 17:43, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:History-example.png

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While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~ Rob 13 Talk 17:43, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Wikipedia's sister projects/CSS
Template:Wikipedia's sister projects/CSS has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:13, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tom-


text:
User talk:Thosol

Welcome
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia.

You might find these links helpful in creating new pages or helping with the above tasks: How to edit a page, How to write a great article, Naming conventions, Manual of Style. You should read our policies at some point too.

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

 * If you made any edits before you got an account, you might be interested in assigning those to your username.

 * You can sign your name using three tildes, like this: . If you use four, you can add a datestamp too.

 * If you ever think a page or image should be deleted, please list it at the votes for deletion page. There is also a votes for undeletion page if you want to retrieve something that you think should not have been deleted.

Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 13:55, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Thosol


text:
Revopak

The Revopak is a type of waste collection vehicle manufactured by the British company Shelvoke and Drewry.

Introduced in 1971, the Revopak was a British-built clone of the French Bennes-Ray "Superpac". It was one of the first vehicles to address the problem of compacting and destroying the high content of packaging materials now found in domestic refuse.

By using a huge, hydraulic-powered rotating rake with large steel tines, refuse was scooped up from the loading hopper and forced through a set of stationary tines. The rotation of the rake increases the density of the load by continuously lifting the waste, mutilating it through the stationary tines, and then dropping it and repeating the cycle until it is small enough to be forced into the main body, where it is compacted, thus reducing the space required to dump it at the landfill site.

Two generations of the Revopak were produced - the early 1971-1973 models used hydraulic motors which drove the compaction rake by means of chains, while the later models used a simpler and more robust drive system which consisted of twin synchronised hydraulic rams to operate the compaction system. Many variations were made of the basic design, including a multitude of different body lengths and payloads, plus SD developed bin lifters as an optional extra - a precursor to the modern wheeled bin collection systems of today. One disadvantage of the system was heavier fuel consumption, since the compaction system has to run continuously in order to be effective.

The Revopak was in continuous production until 1990, when SD went out of business, although the French built unit is still manufactured by SEMAT.

title: Revopak


text:
Joe Jitsu

Joe Jitsu was a British humour comic strip, published in the British comics magazine The Beano, between 2004 and 2006. The comic was voted into the magazine after a poll by Beano readers in early 2004, along with another comic strip, Colin the Vet. Joe narrowly defeated Colin, but both became regulars in the comic, as Joe's victory was by just 1%.

The strip, drawn by Wayne Thompson, who was also the artist for The Beano's Billy Whizz and Jak in The Dandy, was about a boy who had a black belt in Karate. Some early strips also featured a man by the name of Johnny Woo, whose plans to get Joe into his dojo were never successful. Joe Jitsu also has a sister, called Jude.

In 2006, Joe's strip made a reappearance in The Beano. However, this was only a short run as the strips were stockpiled, and after Alan Digby became Beano editor his strip quietly disappeared. Joe Jitsu also appeared in the long story "Custard's Last Stand", which was reprinted in the Bash Street Kids annual 2010, as well as a one-panel cameo in Pluggy Love in the 2008 Beano annual.

title: Joe Jitsu


text:
User talk:Dolfin~enwiki

Welcome
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia.

You might find these links helpful in creating new pages or helping with the above tasks: How to edit a page, How to write a great article, Naming conventions, Manual of Style. You should read our policies at some point too.

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

 * If you made any edits before you got an account, you might be interested in assigning those to your username.

 * You can sign your name using three tildes, like this: . If you use four, you can add a datestamp too.

 * If you ever think a page or image should be deleted, please list it at the votes for deletion page. There is also a votes for undeletion page if you want to retrieve something that you think should not have been deleted.

Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 13:59, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Dolfin. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Dolfin~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:29, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 12:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dolfin~enwiki