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User:Secretlondon/Photos

This is an out of date list of photos I have taken and released under the GFDL. I'm using it to show what needs transfering to commons.

Italics = on commons

Photo Galleries

Southwark

 * Image:BermondseyAntiquesMarket.jpg
 * Image:BricklayersArmsFlyover.jpg
 * Image:AlaskaBuildingsBermondsey.jpg
 * Image:Lightglobesatelephant.jpg
 * Image:BermondseyTownHall19SpaRd.jpg
 * Image:Obelisque st georges fields.jpg
 * Image:Southwark vestry hall.jpg
 * Image:Manor place baths.jpg
 * Image:Former labour party hq walworth road.jpg
 * Image:Burgess park sign.jpg
 * Image:Kings college hosiptal ambulance entrance.jpg
 * Image:Kings college hosiptal ruskin wing.jpg
 * Image:Camberwell Green.jpg
 * Image:Elephant shopping.jpg
 * Image:Borough market.jpg
 * Image:Globe theatre.jpg
 * Image:Winchester palace large.jpg
 * Image:Anelephantwacastle.jpg
 * Image:Eastst2.jpg
 * Image:Eastst1.jpg
 * Image:Walworth road.jpg
 * Image:Dulwichlibraryfront.jpg
 * Image:Concretehousesmall.jpg
 * Image:DulwichWoodssmall.jpg

Lambeth

 * Image:HeadquartersoftheInternationalMaritimeOrganisation.jpg
 * Image:MI6BuildingVauxhall.jpg
 * Image:RoyalVauxhallTavern.jpg
 * Image:Stockwelldeeplevelsheltercloseup.jpg
 * Image:Stockwell deep level shelter entrance.jpg
 * Image:South bank centre.jpg
 * Image:County hall.jpg
 * Image:BrixtonAcademy.jpg
 * Image:BrixtonMarket.jpg
 * Image:LambethTownHall.jpg
 * Image:TateLibraryBrixton.jpg
 * Image:TheMassinBrixton.jpg
 * Image:TheFridgeinBrixton.jpg
 * Image:RitzyCinemaBrixton.jpg

Lewisham

 * Image:HornimanMuseumfront.jpg
 * Image:LewishamShopping.jpg
 * Image:HornimanGreenBuildingsmall.jpg
 * Image:HornimanConservatory.jpg
 * Image:HornimanBandstandsmall.jpg

Street Furniture

 * Image:Traffic light profile.jpg
 * Image:Green man uk.jpg
 * Image:Green man panel.jpg
 * Image:Zebra crossing.jpg
 * Image:TUCANCrossing.jpg
 * Image:NatWestlogo.jpg
 * Image:HSBClogoonbuilding.jpg
 * Image:Shell logo from petrol station.jpg
 * Image:Vw beetle.jpg
 * Image:KingswayUnderpass.jpg
 * Image:PuffinCrossing.jpg
 * Image:Ice cream van.jpg

Transport

 * Image:BendyBus.jpg
 * Image:Londontaxi.jpg
 * Image:Claphamcommontubestationbig.jpg
 * Image:Oval tube.jpg
 * Image:Bakerloo line depot at elephant.jpg
 * Image:VauxhallStation.jpg
 * Image:Elephanttube.jpg
 * Image:London bridge tube station.jpg
 * Image:London bridge station.jpg
 * Image:LeicesterSquareTubeStation.jpg
 * Image:CharingCrossTube.jpg
 * Image:Tcourttube.jpg
 * Image:CoventGardenTubeStation.jpg
 * Image:RussellSquaretubestation.jpg
 * Image:EustonStationsignage.jpg
 * Image:EustonSquarestation.jpg
 * Image:GoodgeStreetStation.jpg
 * Image:Elephanttubenorthern300.jpg
 * Image:BrixtonTubeStation.jpg
 * Image:Regents Park tube station.jpg
 * Image:Euston station main entrance and courtyard.jpg
 * Image:WarrenStreetTubeStation.jpg
 * Image:KenningtonTubeStation.jpg
 * Image:EdgwareRdBakerloo.jpg
 * Image:EdgwareRdHammersmith.jpg
 * Image:PimlicoStation.jpg
 * Image:VictoriaStation.jpg
 * Image:BoroughTube.jpg
 * Image:ClaphamNorthTube.jpg
 * Image:ClaphamSouthTube.jpg
 * Image:StockwellTube.jpg
 * Image:BalhamTube.jpg
 * Image:LewishamStation.jpg
 * Image:CrossharbourDLR.jpg
 * Image:IslandGardensDLR.jpg

Bridges

 * Image:London Bridge, River Thames, 2003.jpg
 * Image:Cannon street railway bridge.jpg
 * Image:LambethBridge.jpg
 * Image:VauxhallBridge.jpg
 * Image:Westminster bridge.jpg

Shops

 * Image:LIDLFrontageinLondon.jpg
 * Image:Boots.jpg
 * Image:Safeway.jpg
 * Image:Marksandspencer.jpg
 * Image:Woolworths shop frontage.jpg
 * Image:Iceland supermarket front.jpg
 * Image:Pie shop frontage.jpg
 * Image:WaterstonesGowerStreet.jpg
 * Image:FoylesCharingCrossRd.jpg

West End
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 * Image:LeicesterSquareGardens.jpg
 * Image:EmpireLeicesterSquare.jpg
 * Image:Dominion.jpg
 * Image:CapitalRadioBuildingLondon.jpg
 * Image:OdeonLeicesterSquare.jpg
 * Image:WarnerVillageLeicesterSquare.jpg
 * Image:OdeonWestEnd.jpg
 * Image:NealsYardCoventGarden.jpg
 * Image:CoventGardenMarket.jpg
 * Image:CoventGardenMarketInside.jpg
 * Image:PiccadillyCircusAdverts.jpg
 * Image:InstituteofContemporaryArtsLondon.jpg
 * Image:AdmiraltyArchLondon.jpg
 * Image:AdmiraltyCitadelLondon.jpg
 * Image:ScientologyShopTottenhamCourtRd.jpg
 * Image:Centrepoint.jpg
 * Image:AdmiralDuncan.jpg
 * Image:PrinceEdwardTheatre.jpg
 * Image:PalaceTheatre.jpg
 * Image:LondonAstoria.jpg
 * Image:CentrepointFountain.jpg
 * Image:GoodgeStreetDeepLevelShelter.jpg
 * Image:EustonTower.jpg
 * Image:MadameTussauds.jpg mine was overwritten

City and Westminster

 * Image:MI5BuildingThamesHouse.jpg
 * Image:Portcullis house.jpg
 * Image:RiverThames.jpg

East(ern) Germany

 * Image:BerlinSchoenefeldAirport300.jpg
 * Image:Palast73.jpg
 * Image:Kollwitzstatue.jpg
 * Image:Palastderrepublik2003.jpg
 * Image:Worldtimeclock.jpg
 * Image:Rotesrathaus.jpg
 * Image:RecyclinginBerlin.jpg

Food

 * Image:RipePlantain.jpg
 * Image:HotPeppersinMarket.jpg
 * Image:PumpkinsatBrixtonMarket.jpg
 * Image:YamsatBrixtonMarket.jpg
 * Image:KohlrabiinMarket.jpg
 * Image:WhiteEggplantonMarketStall.jpg
 * Image:OrangeLentils.jpg

Universities

 * Image:CentralStMartins.jpg
 * Image:School of Pharmacy.jpg
 * Image:InstituteofEducation1.jpg
 * Image:SOAS.jpg
 * Image:Unversity of London - Senate House.jpg
 * Image:SchoolofHygieneandTropicalMedicine.jpg
 * Image:BirkbeckCollege.jpg
 * Image:UniversityCollegeLondon.jpg
 * Image:London college of printing.jpg
 * Image:London southbank university.jpg
 * Image:LondonSchoolofEconomics.jpg
 * Image:UniversityOfWestminster.jpg

Bloomsbury

 * Image:RussellSquare.jpg
 * Image:BrunswickSquare.jpg
 * Image:RADATheatre.jpg
 * Image:TavistockSquare.jpg
 * Image:BloomsburyTheatre.jpg
 * Image:BloomsburySquare.jpg - actually Gordon Square
 * Image:UniversityCollegeHospital.jpg
 * Image:CochraneTheatre.jpg

Architecture

 * Image:BrunswickCentre1.jpg
 * Image:BrunswickCentre2.jpg
 * Image:BrunswickCentre3.jpg
 * Image:InstituteofEducation2.jpg
 * Image:Alexander fleming house.jpg

Religious Buildings

 * Image:Southwark cathederal.jpg
 * Image:LambethPalacebyLambethBridge.jpg
 * Image:St georges roman catholic cathedral southwark.jpg
 * Image:Stpauls.jpg
 * Image:Tabernacle.jpg
 * Image:Catherine booth statue.jpg
 * Image:Tower salvation army.jpg
 * Image:William Booth statue.jpg
 * Image:MetropolitanTabernacleSouth.jpg

Outer London

 * Image:CrystalPalaceMast(large).jpg
 * Image:CrystalPalaceNationalSportsCentre.jpg
 * Image:CrystalPalaceStation.jpg
 * Image:Insidechislehurstcaves.jpg
 * Image:Chislehurstcavessign.jpg
 * Image:Entrancetochislehurstcaves.jpg

Docklands

 * Image:HSBCBuildingforWiki.jpg
 * Image:BarclaysBuildingChurchillPlace.jpg
 * Image:OneWestIndiaQuay.jpg

People

 * Image:Tony Benn June 2004 for wikipedia.jpg

Connectors

 * Image:BritishPlugforWikipedia.jpg
 * Image:BritishPhonePlug.jpg
 * Image:IECCordforWikipedia.jpg
 * Image:FuseBoxforWikipedia.jpg
 * Image:EnergySavingLightBulb.jpg
 * Image:SCARTconnectorforWikipedia.jpg
 * Image:UKShaverSocket.jpg

Miscellaneous

 * Image:Privateeyeposter.jpg

title: User:Secretlondon/Photos


text:
Tony Kornheiser

Anthony Irwin Kornheiser (born July 13, 1948) is an American television sports talk show host and former sportswriter and columnist. Kornheiser is best known for his endeavors in three forms of media: as a writer for The Washington Post from 1979 to 2008, as a co-host of ESPN's Emmy Award-winning sports debate show Pardon the Interruption since 2001, and as the host of The Tony Kornheiser Show, a radio show and podcast. Longtime ESPN executive John Walsh once declared that "in the history of sports media, [Kornheiser] is the most multitalented person ever."

Early life
Kornheiser was born in New York City and raised in nearby Lynbrook. He was the only child of Estelle (née Rosenthal; 1915–1978) and Ira Kornheiser (1910–2000). His father was a dress cutter. During his youth, Kornheiser spent his summers at Camp Keeyumah in Pennsylvania. One of his counselors was future NCAA and NBA basketball coach Larry Brown. Kornheiser attended George W. Hewlett High School, where he was the sports editor of the school newspaper. He graduated in 1965.

After high school, Kornheiser went to Harpur College (now Binghamton University), where he majored in English literature and began his journalism career at the Colonial News (now called Pipe Dream). He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in 1970. Kornheiser has frequently spoken positively of his college years. For a brief period of time after college, he worked with children with disabilities.

Early writing career
Kornheiser began his career in New York City, where he wrote for Newsday between 1970 and 1976. His first work at Newsday consisted of covering high school sports. Kornheiser then moved to The New York Times, where he wrote between 1976 and 1979.

In 1979, George Solomon recruited Kornheiser to join The Washington Post as a general assignment reporter in Style and Sports. In 1980, Kornheiser also authored a profile of Nolan Ryan that served as the cover story for the charter issue of Inside Sports. He became a full-time sports columnist at the Post in 1984. He also began writing columns for the Post 's Style Section on November 12, 1989.

In the 1990s, Kornheiser usually wrote three columns per week, which were a Tuesday column and a Thursday column in the Sports Section and a Sunday column (written for a more general audience) in the Style Section. He also started working for ESPN Radio in 1997 and kept his column at the Post. As part of his ESPN Radio contract, Kornheiser wrote columns called "Parting Shots" for ESPN The Magazine between 1998 and 2000.

Writing style
Kornheiser's columns were usually sarcastic with touches of humor. The most distinct style of his columns was that he often used an alter ego in italics to question his points of views for self-deprecation, like "Excuse me, Tony..." At times, he would also use exaggeration for the sake of humor. According to Stephanie Mansfield of Sports Illustrated, Kornheiser was regarded by many as "the wittiest columnist" in American newspapers. Robert Weintraub of the Columbia Journalism Review praised him, in retrospect, for his "blend of beauty and precision." Kornheiser was also capable of being "deadly serious" when need be.

The Bandwagon columns
In 1991, Kornheiser created a string of now-famous Bandwagon columns to describe the Washington Redskins' Super Bowl run that year. He first came up with the idea when the Redskins trounced the Detroit Lions, 45–0, in the opening game of the season. He officially unveiled the first "Bandwagon" column when the team had an undefeated 4–0 record. From then on, the Bandwagon column appeared every Tuesday, celebrating "the fun and hilarity of sports." As the season progressed and the team's performances improved, a growing number of fans read the Bandwagon column in earnest.

When the Redskins advanced to Super Bowl XXVI, Kornheiser and his Post colleagues Jeanne McManus and Norman Chad drove in a 38-foot recreational vehicle decorated as the Bandwagon for a 1,200-mile journey to Minneapolis, Minnesota. Kornheiser later described the Bandwagon columns as "the most fun I ever had as a writer."

Late writing career
In the early 2000s – because of his work on both radio and Pardon the Interruption – Kornheiser stopped writing Style Section columns and only wrote one column a week. His last Style Section column was published on September 30, 2001. Three of his books – Pumping Irony, Bald as I Wanna Be, and I'm Back for More Cash – are compilations of his Style Section columns.

In 2005, Kornheiser started to write short columns called A Few Choice Words with his photo in the Post's Sports Section. These short, sports-related columns appeared on the second page of the Post's Sports section and were much shorter than the full-length columns Kornheiser used to write for the paper. This was the first time that the Post displayed a columnist's photo beside his column. He called these short columns "columnettes," writing three per week unless he had other duties. He did not write columns between April 26, 2006, and August 7, 2006, to prepare as an analyst of ESPN's Monday Night Football. Starting August 8, 2006, he wrote columns called Monday Night Diary to describe his adventures on Monday Night Football. His short-column space was later replaced by Dan Steinberg's D.C. Sports Bog.

On May 14, 2008, it was announced that Kornheiser had accepted a buyout from the Post. "I love the paper. They were great to me every day that I was there," he told Reuters. "But I don't do much for the paper anymore." Kornheiser had not written a regular column for the paper's print edition since 2006. However, Kornheiser and Wilbon continued to tape a "Talking Points" mini online TV feature for the Washington Post until June 2, 2009, when an installment termed the final one was posted on the Post 's site. In it Wilbon says he thinks there will be further installments while Kornheiser seems certain it is a permanent decision management has made.

On May 20, 2010, Kornheiser said on his radio show that in fact he was fired by the Washington Post, saying "they fired me in a despicable way." On September 11, 2013, Kornheiser repeated his account: "Raju Narisetti fired me from the Washington Post and I hate his guts."

Radio era
Kornheiser hosted The Tony Kornheiser Show first locally on WTEM – known as Sports Radio 570 – in Washington, D.C. between May 25, 1992, and November 14, 1997. The Kornheiser-led show was part of WTEM's original lineup. The show was then syndicated by ESPN Radio between January 5, 1998, and March 26, 2004. He was back on WTEM locally between November 10, 2004, and April 28, 2006, after which point Kornheiser put the show on hiatus in order to prepare for his duties with Monday Night Football. His show was also carried for a short while by XM Satellite Radio, airing between February 28, 2005 and April 28, 2006.

After completing the 2006 season on Monday Night Football, Kornheiser signed with WTWP, Washington Post Radio, to relaunch his radio show on February 20, 2007. The show aired live from 8:30 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. and was then replayed from 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. XM Radio carried his show on a thirty-minute delay, from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m., beginning March 5, 2007, on XM Sports Nation, Channel 144. Kornheiser went on hiatus from the show following the June 28, 2007, broadcast because of his Monday Night Football duties. The show was hosted by David Burd and included the same supporting cast. The show was called The Tony Kornheiser Show Starring David Burd during the hiatus.

Kornheiser returned to the show as the full-time host from January 21, 2008, to June 27, 2008, after which point WWWT – the successor to WTWP – declined to renew his contract due to declining ratings. The show aired live from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. and was replayed from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m on WWWT, as well as on XM Sports Nation, XM channel 144 from 8:15 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. He announced during this period in 2008 that he would not be back on the radio until he was done with Monday Night Football.

The Tony Kornheiser Show was on the air daily Monday through Friday from 10:00 a.m. to noon on Washington, D.C. radio station WTEM and streamed live on the station's website, ESPN980.com, until June 2016. The show was also available as a podcast. There was originally a 24-hour "podcast delay," a source of many jokes amongst fans and show members alike. The delay ended in 2015, allowing listeners to download episodes a few minutes after the live broadcast.

Podcast era
On June 2, 2016, Kornheiser announced that his show will be relaunched as a podcast-only show. According to Kornheiser, the reason to do a podcast-only show was to own his content and do the podcast a little closer to his home. However, the show format would still be the same as the radio show, albeit slightly shorter in length. Kornheiser's son, Michael, handled the social media for the podcast and launched a website with information about how to subscribe.

On September 6, 2016, Kornheiser returned from his summer vacation with the first full episode of the new podcast. The first episode was titled "We're Back!!! The Tony Kornheiser Show Returns" and ran for 1 hour and four minutes. Most parts of the old show – including "Old Guy Radio" and the Mailbag – were retained. Gary Braun and Chris Cillizza joined Kornheiser in studio. Michael Wilbon of ESPN and Steve Sands of the Golf Channel were the first guests joining by phone.

The podcast-only show is produced in partnership with sports talent agency IMG and on-demand audio company DGital Media. The podcast is available at 11 a.m. ET via iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, and TuneIn.

Throughout its many iterations, a central quality of the show has been its eagerness to discuss issues other than sports, including news, politics, entertainment, and the idiosyncrasies of modern life. In its early years, the show amassed a large and loyal following that remains to this day. The fans – who refer to themselves as "littles" – have an annual musical convention and use "La Cheeserie" as a catch phrase (in reference to a cheese counter at D.C.-area liquor store Calvert Woodley).

Television career
Kornheiser appeared on a local weekly Washington Redskins TV show during the NFL football season on Washington's Channel 50 in the early 1980s with Pete Wysocki, a popular former Redskins linebacker and local hero, which was televised from a local restaurant/bar in Washington, D.C. called "Champions."

He appeared on ESPN's The Sports Reporters beginning in 1988 and continuing during the 1990s. He sometimes guest-hosted the program when the then-host of the show, Dick Schaap, was away. He was also a panelist on Full Court Press hosted by George Michael on WRC-TV in Washington, D.C. during the NFL off-season until that show was canceled in December 2008 due to budget cuts. He also made a number of appearances on Redskins Report on WRC. He has appeared on numerous other ESPN productions, including SportsCenter, Who's Number One?, and multiple player's/sportspeople's profiles for SportsCentury.

Pardon the Interruption

Pardon the Interruption (abbreviated PTI) is a sports television show that airs weekdays on various ESPN TV channels, TSN, BT Sport ESPN, XM, and Sirius satellite radio services, and as a downloadable podcast. On PTI, Kornheiser and co-host Michael Wilbon discuss, and frequently argue over, the top stories of the day in "sports... and other stuff" (as Kornheiser put it in the show's original promo).

Kornheiser's lively segments with Wilbon on the radio and on Full Court Press – which mirrored their actual discussions in the newsroom of The Washington Post – sparked the idea for PTI well before the end of his run at ESPN Radio. The show won a Sports Emmy Award for best Daily Outstanding Studio Show in 2010, 2017, and 2019.

Monday Night Football
When Monday Night Football moved from ABC to ESPN, Kornheiser received and accepted an offer to be a color analyst on Monday Night Football in early 2006. He was originally passed over in favor of Sunday Night Football commentator Joe Theismann; however, when play-by-play man Al Michaels left ABC to call Sunday Night Football for NBC, Kornheiser was brought in alongside Theismann and new play-by-play announcer Mike Tirico. As such, Kornheiser was part of the broadcast team covering the New Orleans Saints' 23–3 victory over the Atlanta Falcons in the Saints' first game in the Superdome after Hurricane Katrina.

Unlike Wilbon, Kornheiser does most episodes of PTI in-studio due to his self-admitted fear of flying. Prior to joining MNF, his last trips outside of the studio were to cover Super Bowl XXXVI in New Orleans and to attend the NFL owners meetings in Orlando in 2006; Kornheiser both times traveled via train, though returned from the Orlando trip via airplane. On the April 6, 2006 edition of PTI, he expressed his dismay at the amount of travel required for MNF. Though he has mentioned on his radio program that he is taking steps to overcome his aviophobia, he in fact spent a five-week period on the road traveling to mainly western MNF sites, doing PTI via satellite.

Kornheiser returned for a second season of Monday Night Football. On January 9, 2007, Kornheiser told Newsday, "If they would like to have me back, my inclination is that I would like to do it again."

On May 18, 2009, ESPN announced that Kornheiser would be leaving Monday Night Football due to fear of flying. Former Oakland Raiders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach Jon Gruden replaced Kornheiser in the MNF booth.

Entertainment
The 2004–2005 sitcom Listen Up, which aired on CBS, was loosely based on Kornheiser's life. It featured Jason Alexander as Tony Kleinman. The sitcom's material mostly came from Kornheiser's columns (collected in I'm Back for More Cash) that he contributed to the "Style" section of the Washington Post, which took a humorous view of his family life.

Kornheiser had a cameo appearance as a bar patron in a 2015 episode of The Americans.

In June 2016, Kornheiser participated in the roast of political commentator and strategist James Carville.

Restaurant
In January 2017, it was announced that Kornheiser was part of a new ownership group for Chad's (formerly Chadwick's), a bar and restaurant located in the Friendship Heights area of Washington, D.C. The group also included former Maryland basketball coach Gary Williams, TV host Maury Povich, and D.C. businessman and socialite Alan Bubes. Kornheiser is quoted as saying: "Did I always want to be part of a restaurant? No. But now with a podcast and trying to own my own content, the ability to put it on during the mornings or during the day and to have other people use it, that would be fun for me."

In April 2017, Kornheiser announced that Chad's would be renamed Chatter. The new owners made several improvements, including remodeling the interior and adding a podcast studio. Kornheiser began recording episodes of The Tony Kornheiser Show at Chatter on May 1, 2017. Many fans of the show visited the restaurant to listen live.

On June 28, 2019, Kornheiser announced that the podcast would move to a new location after the summer break due to the closure of Chatter.

Personal life
Kornheiser currently resides in the Chevy Chase neighborhood of Washington, D.C., as well as Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, with his wife Karril. They have two children, Michael and Elizabeth. Kornheiser is Jewish.

Kornheiser was a member of the Young Democrats club while in high school. As of 1990, Kornheiser was a registered Republican, although he did so because his wife was a registered Democrat and the couple wanted to "receive mailings from both sides." Later, he referred to the decision to register as a Republican as a "mistake." Kornheiser voted for Barack Obama during the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections. During a podcast episode released on January 31, 2017, Kornheiser stated: "I land on the liberal side of the fence almost all the time, certainly on social issues."

Kornheiser has a pronounced fear of flying. He regularly goes to bed early. He can name all fifty U.S. states and their capitals in alphabetical order.

In 2006, Kornheiser revealed that he had skin cancer and had received treatment.

General
While earning a name as a critic of many people and organizations, he has appeared sensitive to criticism directed toward his own work.

Stephen Rodrick wrote for Slate that Kornheiser was allowed by ESPN to argue aimlessly on television and that his Washington Post column was being used to plug side projects rather than gather news from cited sources. Kornheiser called on Slate, owned by the Post's parent company, to fire Rodrick.

After Kornheiser's first game on Monday Night Football, Paul Farhi wrote in The Washington Post that Kornheiser had emphasized the obvious, played third fiddle, and was reminiscent of Dennis Miller "in a bad way." Kornheiser responded during an interview on The Dan Patrick Show on August 15, 2006, saying that Farhi was a "two-bit weasel slug" and his own newspaper had back-stabbed him. His response generated more criticism from media outlets, including the Post. Other criticism came from Toronto Argonauts play-by-play commentator Mike Hogan, who said, "The thing that really bothers me is that Kornheiser doesn't seem to know his place. If you're there for comic relief, that's one thing. But for God's sake, leave the football analysis to guys who actually played the game." Former NFL offensive lineman Mike Schad also criticized Kornheiser, saying that "when people watch a game, they want to learn something. I don't need a guy who's sarcastic or trying to be funny. I love listening to Ron Jaworski on Monday Nights. He played the game and has lots of good insight and Kornheiser just gets in his way."

Mike Golic – an ESPN colleague of Kornheiser's who had expressed skepticism regarding the latter's prospects as an on-air analyst because he was never an athlete – said that Kornheiser's performance on MNF was "fine." Kornheiser's response was, "I just want to wring Golic's neck and hang him up over the back of a shower rod like a duck."

Controversial remarks
During a Monday Night Football telecast on September 15, 2008, Kornheiser made a comment about a clip of the ESPN Deportes crew's call of a Felix Jones touchdown, saying, “I took high-school Spanish, and that either means ‘nobody is going to touch him’ or ‘could you pick up my dry cleaning in the morning.’” Later in the broadcast, Kornheiser apologized on-air for the remark.

On February 23, 2010, it emerged that ESPN had suspended Kornheiser for two weeks for comments he made on his radio show about fellow high-profile ESPN personality Hannah Storm's wardrobe that day. "Hannah Storm in a horrifying, horrifying outfit today. She's got on red go-go boots and a Catholic school plaid skirt. Way too short for somebody in her 40s or maybe early 50s by now. And she's got on her typically very, very tight shirt. So she looks like she's got sausage casing wrapping around her upper body. I mean, I know she's very good, and I'm not supposed to be critical of ESPN people, so I won't ... But, Hannah Storm, come on now! Stop! What are you doing? ... [She's] what I would call a Holden Caulfield fantasy at this point."

- Tony Kornheiser

In March 2010, Kornheiser commented: "The last time I looked, the roads were made for automobiles...We're going to be dominated as if this was Beijing by hundreds of thousands of bicyclists... They all wear... my God... with the little water bottle in the back and the stupid hats and their shiny shorts. They are the same disgusting poseurs that in the middle of a snowstorm come out with cross-country skiing on your block. Run 'em down... Let them use the right, I’m okay with that. I don’t take my car and ride on the sidewalk because I understand that’s not for my car... Why do these people think that these roads were built for bicycles?... They dare you to run them down." Cyclist Lance Armstrong replied. "Disgusting, ignorant, foolish. What a complete f-ing idiot." Kornheiser later apologized to Armstrong on-air and offered to go on a bike ride with him.

In June 2010, Green Bay Packer quarterback Aaron Rodgers criticized Kornheiser's performance on Monday Night Football, saying: "He's terrible... I don’t think he’s funny. I don’t think he’s insightful. I don’t think he knows, really, anything about sports." Rodgers also criticized ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski and other ESPN employees during the interview. Kornheiser responded in an interview by saying: "If he thinks I'm no good, he wouldn't be the first. Or the last," and "I tried to establish some rapport with that. I guess that rapport didn't exist." The two have since reconciled. Kornheiser and Rodgers even played a round of golf together with Barack Obama and Mark Kelly in April 2016.

In October 2015, Kornheiser was interviewing Huffington Post editor Howard Fineman about the conservative movement in Congress when he asked if Tea Party members are "like ISIS trying to establish a caliphate here," which Fineman called a "good analogy" but without the violence.

Honors
Kornheiser was a finalist for the 1997 Pulitzer Prize for Commentary.

In 2008, Kornheiser was inducted into the National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame.

In 2012, Kornheiser was ranked No. 8 in the list of the 100 most important sports talk radio hosts in America compiled by Talkers Magazine. In 2016, the Tony Kornheiser Show was ranked No. 1 as America's Top 20 Local Sports Midday Shows for 2015 by Barrett Sports Media.

In May 2017, Binghamton University – Kornheiser's alma mater – awarded him an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters.

On July 9, 2017, Kornheiser was inducted into the Washington, D.C. Sports Hall of Fame alongside such notable names as Olympic swimmer Katie Ledecky and former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.

On October 4, 2017, Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon shared the National Press Club's 2017 Fourth Estate Award, which "recognizes journalists who have made significant contributions to the field."

White House visits
On July 12, 2013, Kornheiser, Michael Wilbon and Tony Reali were guests at the White House. After lunch, the trio met in the Oval Office with President Barack Obama. Obama invited Kornheiser and Wilbon to play golf with him the following day, which happened to be Kornheiser's 65th birthday.

Kornheiser also played golf with Obama on a number of other occasions, including in September 2013, June 2014, July 2014, July 2015, April 2016, and May 2016.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Tony Kornheiser


text:
Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure

The Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure (FFII) is a non-profit organisation based in Munich, Germany, dedicated to establishing a free market in information technology, by the removal of barriers to competition. The FFII played a key organisational role and was very active in the campaign which resulted in the rejection of the EU software patent directive in July 2005.

CNET awarded the FFII the Outstanding contribution to software development award for this work, which was the result of years of research, policy, and action. After the July 2005 victory, FFII has continued to defend a free and competitive software market by working towards adequate patent systems and open standards. Currently the FFII fights against software patents lobbies, not only in Europe but also in other parts of the world.

It was founded as a German registered association under the name Förderverein für eine Freie Informationelle Infrastruktur (FFII) e.V. in 1999 by developer and far-right politics activist Hartmut Pilch.

Views
FFII's view is that software patents present a burden, not a benefit to society. It backs this position up citing extensive studies. FFII is a European NGO on this issue. Through its partnership with many other European organisations with the same goal, it has a reach across all nations of the EU.

FFII has been active on this front since 2000 when, according to the FFII, an attempt to change the European Patent Convention to legitimise software patents failed. In 2003, it strongly but indirectly lobbied the European Parliament against the proposed Directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions.

The EuroLinux anti-software-patent petition, supported and promoted by FFII, was signed by more than 1,500 SMEs, many thousand software developers, tens of thousands of software users system administrators as well as a number of scientists, academics and economists for a total of 400,000 signatories.

FFII organises conferences about the topic, usually in Brussels, such as the conference which took place on April 14, 2004 together with a demonstration of more than 400 people against software patents the one on November 9–10, 2004. In Karlsruhe, FFII organised a demonstration of about 1,000 people against software patents. In 2005 FFII organised an online demo supported by 1,200 web sites.

Structure
The FFII was funded originally by donations from SuSE and Infomatec. The Open Society Institute has contributed regularly, as have Red Hat, and Stichting NLnet. The historical list of donors from 1999 to 2005 can be found on the FFII web site. Partners in Europe include EFFI, EuroLinux, FSF Europe, and SKOSI.

The FFII exists as a mother organisation with more or less formal chapters in many countries. The national FFII chapters (such as FFII France) handle national membership, media and lobbying, while the mother organisation operates at the EU level and in countries where there is no formal FFII organisation.

As of 14 December 2013, the FFII board consists of Benjamin Henrion (President), Rene Mages (Vice president), Stephan Uhlmann (Treasurer), André Rebentisch (Secretary), Hartmut Pilch.

Campaigns
Besides software patents, FFII promotes various campaigns aimed at disencumbering computing and software development. These include supporting author's rights and Interoperability enforcements, such as working to improve copyright regulation by providing technical analysis, amendments and voting recommendations that may influence the European Parliament.

National sections

 * FFII Belgium
 * FFII French Chapter
 * FFII Polish section
 * FFII Spain
 * FFII Swedish Chapter
 * FFII UK Chapter


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Alberto Salazar

Alberto Salazar (born August 7, 1958) is an American former track coach and long-distance runner. Born in Cuba, Salazar immigrated to the United States as a child with his family, living in Connecticut and then in Wayland, Massachusetts, where Salazar competed in track and field in high school. Salazar won the New York City Marathon three times in the early 1980s, and won the 1982 Boston Marathon in a race known as the "Duel in the Sun". He set American track records for 5,000 m and 10,000 m in 1982. Salazar was later the head coach of the Nike Oregon Project. He won the IAAF Coaching Achievement Award in 2013.

In 2015, Salazar was named in a joint BBC Panorama and ProPublica investigation into doping allegations. In 2019, Salazar was banned for four years from athletics for doping offenses involving athletes he coached. The Nike Oregon Project was shut down in the wake of the controversy.

In January 2020, the United States Center for SafeSport placed Salazar on its temporarily banned list while it investigated allegations against him involving sexual and emotional misconduct. SafeSport permanently banned him a year and a half later, in July 2021, after it found that he had committed four violations involving emotional and sexual misconduct. In December 2021, Salazar appealed the ban in arbitration but lost, making him permanently ineligible for any activity held by the USOPC or any sport's USOPC-recognized National Governing Body.

High school
Born in Cuba, Salazar grew up in Wayland, Massachusetts. His father Jose was a close friend of Fidel Castro and a revolutionary, who then became an opponent of the totalitarian communist regime and member of the anti-Castro movement. The younger Salazar was an outstanding high school runner who was state cross country champion in 1975. He trained with the well-known Greater Boston Track Club (whose members included the likes of Bill Rodgers, Randy Thomas, and Greg Meyer), where he was given the nickname of "the rookie".

Collegiate
From Massachusetts, he went to the University of Oregon where he won numerous All-American honors, was a member of the 1977 NCAA cross country championship team, and won the individual NCAA cross country championship in 1978. Salazar won the 1978 NCAA national cross country championship in cold, snowy conditions, handing Track & Field News Athlete of the Year Henry Rono one of his few losses of the year. He finished 2nd to Rono in a memorable contest at the 1979 NCAA national cross country championships at Lehigh University, in which Rono (28:19) and Salazar (28:28) ran the 3rd and 5th fastest 10,000-meter cross country times in NCAA championship history. Neither time has been matched in over three decades of NCAA cross country competition since then. After that, he finished third in the Olympic Trials 10,000-meter race in 28:10.42 to make the 1980 Olympic team (which didn't compete in the Olympics in Moscow due to the U.S. boycott) and received one of 461 Congressional Gold Medals created especially for the spurned athletes.

At the 1978 Falmouth Road Race after fading to 10th place, he collapsed at the finish with a temperature of 107 degrees Fahrenheit (41.7 °C) and was read his last rites prematurely.

At the 1981 Millrose Games in New York, he set an American indoor 5,000 meter record with a time of 13:21.2, finishing second behind Suleiman Nyambui, who broke the indoor world record with a 13:20.3.

Post-collegiate
From 1980 through 1982, Salazar won three consecutive New York City Marathons. His first-ever marathon was the 1980 race, which he won in 2:09:41, at the time the fastest American debut and the second-fastest time recorded by a U.S. runner (behind Bill Rodgers' 2:09:27 at Boston in 1979). He was on that week's cover of Sports Illustrated after the victory. In 1981, Salazar set an apparent world record at the New York City Marathon of 2:08:13, surpassing the 12-year-old mark of 2:08:33 set by Australian Derek Clayton in 1969 in Antwerp, Belgium. However, the course was found on re-measurement to be about 148 meters short of the 42.195 kilometers (26 miles, 385 yards) distance. This is equivalent to about 27 seconds.

In 1982 he won his first and only Boston Marathon after the memorable head-to-head with Dick Beardsley. Salazar won the race in an exciting sprint finish and collapsed at the end before being taken to an emergency room and given six liters of saline solution intravenously because he did not drink fluids during the race. Salazar ended the year ranked #1 in the world in the marathon by Track & Field News magazine for his wins in Boston and New York, #1 in their North American Road Rankings for his American 10K road record win of 28:04 at the Orange Bowl 10K and his course record of 31:53 at the highly competitive Falmouth 7.1 mi road race (his second win and course record there), #8 in the world (and #1 American with an AR of 13:11.93) in the 5,000 meters, and #2 in the world in the 10,000 meters, with three second-place finishes at Eugene (27:30.0), at Oslo in an American Record of 27:25.61, and at Paris (27:29.06).

Salazar enjoyed success in cross country competition, earning several All-American honors in collegiate and post-collegiate national championships. Salazar was also the U.S. national cross country champion in 1979. He fared well at the IAAF World Cross Country Championships, finishing second in 1982 and fourth in 1983. His silver medal in 1982 marks the last time an American male runner reached the podium in World Cross Country.

In addition to a fourth-place finish (only one second behind the top three placers) at the 1983 world cross country championships, Salazar twice broke the American 10 km road record in 1983 with efforts of 28:02 and 28:01 at the Americas 10 km and Continental Homes 10 km respectively. He finished as the top ranker in Track & Field News magazine's North American Road Rankings for 1983. He was also the 10,000-meter national track champion in 1983, pulling away from Craig Virgin in the last straightaway at the U.S. championships in Indiana in June to win his second such title (the first coming in 1981). However, he finished last in the 10,000 meters at the World Track & Field Championships while suffering from bronchitis and was beaten for the first time in the marathon, finishing fifth at the Rotterdam marathon in April (2:10:08) and then fifth again at Fukuoka in December (2:09:21). (The latter time would have been the American Record for the next 17 years except that there was a problem in filing the paperwork with the authorities.)

In 1984, after a 2nd-place finish by Salazar in the 10,000 meters at the Mt. SAC Relays in 27:45.5, he finished 2nd at the men's Olympic marathon trials (2:11:44) to become a member of the United States Olympic Marathon Team, along with Pete Pfitzinger and John Tuttle. He was considered a favorite to win or medal in the 1984 Summer Olympics but finished a disappointing 15th in 2:14:19 under the hot Los Angeles sun.

Salazar's competitive decline is often attributed to the stress on his body from that memorable Duel in the Sun detailed in the eponymous book by John Brant. Salazar recounts falling into a "more-is-better" mindset which led him to reason that if 120 miles per week yielded a certain level of success, then 180 mi or even 200 mi would bring even better results. This intense and grueling regimen of such extremely long distances led to a breakdown of his immune system, and he found himself frequently sick, injured, and otherwise unable to continue training.

After failing to make the 1988 Olympic Marathon Team Salazar opened a successful restaurant in Eugene, Oregon. Although only able to stagger through four or five miles per run, he remained obsessed with training. Brant wrote that "He couldn't run, yet he couldn't stop running." Salazar unsuccessfully visited the Stanford Sleep Clinic and a cardiologist, had surgery, and trained in Kenya. In 1994 he said that "For most of the last 10 years, I hated running. I hated it with a passion. I used to wish for a cataclysmic injury in which I would lose one of my legs. I know that sounds terrible, but if I had lost a leg, then I wouldn't have to torture myself anymore."

A doctor diagnosed Salazar's running problems and exercise-induced asthma as largely due to the 1982 marathon, and successfully prescribed Prozac to improve his depression and physical symptoms. After Salazar closed the restaurant he owned, he began training again at the age of 34 and in 1994 won the prestigious 90 km Comrades Marathon. He soon retired from competing, believing that he had nothing left to prove as a runner, and became a running coach. Salazar stated that the medication played a role in motivating him to succeed again in professional running though the actual effect of the drug on his performance remains controversial.

Post-competitive career
After his competition career, Salazar moved into coaching. By 1996 this included middle-distance runner Mary Decker, who at the age of 37 qualified for the 5000 meters at the Atlanta Olympics. However, a urine test taken in June at the Olympic Trials showed a testosterone to epitestosterone (T/E) ratio greater than the allowable maximum of six to one. While Decker and her lawyers contended that the T/E ratio test is unreliable for women in their late 30s who are taking birth control pills, she was eliminated in the heats at the Olympics. In June 1997, the IAAF banned Decker from competition. Later reinstated by a USATF panel, the IAAF cleared her to compete but took the case to arbitration. In April 1999, the arbitration panel ruled against her, after which the IAAF through a retroactive ban stripped her of a silver medal she had won in the 1500 meters at the 1997 World Indoor Championships.

Salazar was employed by Nike as coach of the Nike Oregon Project. Aimed at producing Olympic-caliber athletes, project members who have trained under Salazar's tutelage include Alan Webb, Mo Farah, Galen Rupp, Adam Goucher, Kara Goucher, Dan Browne, Amy Yoder Begley, Sifan Hassan and Dathan Ritzenhein. His connection to Oregon and Oregon Sports gave him the distinction of being inducted into the Oregon Sports Hall of Fame in 1997. In August 2012 at the London Summer Olympics, two of Salazar's Olympic-caliber athletes, Mo Farah and Galen Rupp, finished 1st and 2nd respectively in the 10,000 m; Farah also went on to win gold in the 5,000 m, becoming the first British double Olympian in long distance.

Salazar ran in the ING New York Marathon in 2006, at age 48, serving as a pacesetter for cyclist Lance Armstrong, who was attempting his first marathon. Salazar was primarily responsible for guiding Armstrong for the first 10 mi of the race, while Joan Benoit Samuelson oversaw the next 10 mi, and Hicham El Guerrouj the final 6.2 mi. With their help, Armstrong met his goal of completing the race under three hours, finishing in 2:59:36.

On Saturday, June 30, 2007, Salazar suffered a heart attack and was rushed to the hospital. On Sunday, July 1 he was reported to be "groggy" by his family and remained listed in serious condition. On July 2, doctors upgraded his condition from "serious" to "fair". He was released from the hospital on July 8.

On June 26, 2008, on the eve of the US Olympic trials, Salazar was taken to the hospital again, for dehydration and high blood pressure. He attributes this partially to the stress of coaching five Olympic-hopeful athletes. Afterwards, doctors adjusted his medications, but do not believe that there was any further injury to the heart. He returned to the track to coach his athletes through the trials.

In 2012, Salazar published the autobiography 14 Minutes: A Running Legend's Life and Death and Life, along with John Brant. The book tracks Salazar's story from his family's roots in Cuba, his adolescence in Massachusetts, through his running career to present-day coaching efforts, culminating in his 14-minute-long heart stop in 2007.

Doping investigations
In June 2015, Salazar was named in a joint BBC Panorama and ProPublica investigation into doping allegations. This involved testimonies from various athletes and people associated with Salazar about alleged microdosing of testosterone and prednisone at the Nike Oregon Project. Salazar declined to be interviewed for the programme, but denied any wrongdoing, saying in a statement that the "allegations your sources are making are based upon false assumptions and half-truths in an attempt to further their personal agendas". One of the more high-profile allegations was made by former Nike Oregon Project athlete Kara Goucher, who claimed she was pressured by Salazar to take thyroid medication not prescribed by her doctor to lose weight gained during her pregnancy in 2010. The accusations were addressed by Salazar in public releases.

On October 1, 2019, United States Anti-Doping Agency USADA banned Salazar and Dr. Jeffrey Stuart Brown, a colleague at the Nike Oregon Project, for doping offences. These included using a WADA prohibited method, tampering with doping control methods and trafficking testosterone through a prohibited testing program. In response, Salazar stated that "Throughout this six-year investigation my athletes and I have endured unjust, unethical and highly damaging treatment from USADA. [...] I have always ensured the World Anti-Doping Agency code is strictly followed." Records of the investigations were unsealed two days later, exposing a pattern of withholding their own medical records from the athletes, ignoring subpoenas, and other forms of delay.

Salazar appealed his doping ban to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), which upheld his 4-year ban on September 16, 2021. The CAS stated that he was found guilty of "possessing testosterone, complicity in Brown's administration of a prohibited method, and tampering with the doping control process." The CAS did reject USADA's request to increase the ban beyond 4 years, stating that "None of the ADRVs (anti-doping rule violations) directly affected athletic competition, and... there was no evidence put before the CAS as to any effect on athletes competing at the elite level."

Salazar's doping ban ended on October 1, 2023.

SafeSport bans
In January 2020, the United States Center for SafeSport sanctioned Salazar with an additional (temporary) ban from coaching, after SafeSport investigated allegations against him of sexual and emotional misconduct. Although SafeSport did not make public the offense or offenses for which it banned him, Mary Cain, Kara Goucher, Adam Goucher, and Amy Yoder Begley were among those who had previously made public complaints about Salazar's conduct, especially pertaining to unsafe weight restrictions.

On July 26, 2021, Salazar was deemed "permanently ineligible" by SafeSport, after it found that he had committed four violations of emotional and sexual misconduct, including two instances of his penetrating a runner with his finger while giving an athletic massage. Salazar appealed via an arbitration that was held in early December 2021. At the arbitration hearing Salazar denied the accusations against him, and said he did not speak with or see the runner on the days in question. The appeal was unsuccessful as an arbitrator did not find Salazar’s explanation credible, and accepted his accuser’s version of events, determining that he more likely than not had sexually assaulted the athlete on two different occasions and had also made sexually inappropriate comments toward the runner. As a result Salazar was effectively banned for life from participating in any activity put on by or under the auspices of the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee or any sport's USOPC-recognized National Governing Body. His name was removed from the building on Nike’s Beaverton campus after the ban was imposed. Salazar continued to deny involvement in any misconduct and said that he felt the SafeSport process was unfair and "lacked due process protections". In 2023, Kara Goucher came forward as the athlete who accused Salazar of sexual abuse. Because Salazar's ban only applies to national governing bodies recognized by USOPC, he has been permitted to coach athletes affiliated with other national governing bodies (those outside the US) since his doping ban ended on October 1, 2023.

In November 2023, Salazar and Nike reportedly settled a $20 million lawsuit from Mary Cain, in which she had alleged emotional and physical abuse by Salazar and that Nike did not take the proper measures to protect her.

title: Alberto Salazar


text:
Talk:List of British Rail classes

TOPS System
There should be a page referring to whole of the TOPS system, not just the locos.

 * Indeed there should. Why don't you start it off? —Morven 23:19, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In addition, this should also include pre-TOPS locos, and possibly also other diesel locos scrapped before the start of British Rail in 1968.

I'm changing to include the whole TOPS system
Just I'm not too sure about some of the numbering. Articles need to be British Rail class 47 rather than British Rail Class 47. Dunc_Harris|☺ 22:28, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Since a lot of pages already exist as "Class ??" rather than "class ??" is it really worth bothering changing them? (Our Phellap 01:04, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC))

Unit Classes Added
I've added all the unit classes in line with the templates i've already created (Our Phellap 01:05, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC))

DMUs - "Template:British Rail DMU" Template:British Rail DMU

EMUs - "Template:British Rail EMU" Template:British Rail EMU

Naming convention
There is a discussion over the naming convention for the articles relating to the British Rail classes at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (British railway locomotive and multiple unit classes) where your comments are sought. Thryduulf 22:07, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Missing info...
Is there any reason why the tables of larger diesels omit certain columns of information, such as 1957 numbering (which is why I came here!), quantity built, etc?? Or is it simply that no-one's got round to adding it yet?

EdJogg 11:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

 * No-one's got round to it yet... it's on my to-do list for this article.Tom pw (talk) 22:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The article is looking much better already, and providing photos for every class is the real icing on the cake. My apologies for pushing it back to the top of your ToDo list – I didn't check the History before I posted the comment, or I'd have known the article was in safe hands. You do take on some large projects, don't you?! --EdJogg 00:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Article Split
As the article currently stands, it is 43kB long, and it won't be getting shorter. There is a lot of information still to be added (references, 1957 numbering where missing, images, more references...). So, I propose splitting the article into two (or five), thus: What do people think? Tom pw (talk) 22:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * List of British Rail locomotives by class (or possibly List of British Rail non-steam locomotives by class) plus either
 * List of British Rail multiple units by class or
 * List of British Rail diesel multiple units by class
 * List of British Rail electric multiple units by class
 * List of British Rail departmental multiple units by class

 * Split into 5 or 6. Multiple Units is large enough to split three ways. The departmental MU page will be relatively small, but needs to exist for consistency. Locos could be further split diesel/electric, for consistency with the MUs. (Classes 73/74 would remain with electric locos!!)
 * You can't get away with List of British Rail non-steam locomotives by class, because you'd then need a sixth page for Class 98, which would be silly :o). Although I suppose a link to British Rail Class 98 from your intial DAB page would be enough.  Nevertheless, its a very long title.
 * As the page stands, you have omitted British Rail Class 99 (ships) – the ships! But then, the title for this article doesn't quite read right.  I mean, it doesn't state that it relates to locomotives/MUs, does it?  It could be maths or geography :-p  How about List of British Rail motive power xxxxxxx.  The xxxxxxx indicates another word I cannot put my finger on: could be 'types', 'classes', 'units', 'unit types', or nothing at all – I'm just trying to describe the page precisely.
 * Hope that helps. EdJogg 01:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Good point, Class 99 should be added for completeness. I think List of British Rail motive power classes is good for this article (which would become the DAB page). I don't think there's a need for seperate pages for diesel and electric locomotives, partly because that material is short enough, partly because of the difficulty of placing classes 96-99 and builders demos. The question is what to call that article... the trouble is that is two things - 1)List of post-1948 modern traction locomotives and 2)List of TOPS classes 01-99. However, restricting to modern traction only leaves out classes 98-99, and they can be left on the DAB page. So, I suggest:
 * Steam locomotives of British Railways (Maybe re-named to List of British Rail steam locomotives?) (exsisting article, listed here for completeness).
 * List of British Rail modern traction locomotives
 * List of British Rail diesel multiple units
 * List of British Rail electric multiple units
 * List of British Rail departmental multiple units
 * Tom pw (talk) 11:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Seems OK, but I'm not convinced by the rename of Steam locomotives of British Railways, as it is already more than just a list – and again there is the subtle implication that it is a list of locomotives rather than locomotive types – although a name change would be consistent. Incidentally, that page would benefit from loco pictures to match those in the tables here. BTW - Were you aware of Diesel locomotives of British Rail?  Nice pic of a Class 47, but there's not much else going for it!! It is also referred to at Talk:British Rail 'Pending Tasks', which is relevant to your current editing. I've also just found Withdrawn British Rail Stock, which (was) uncategorised.  It is only linked-to from History of rail transport in Great Britain 1995 to date, and does not fulfil the purpose intended by that linking. The page seems to be a repetition of the history pages you have been working on.  Deletion candidate? Also Diesel locomotives of British Rail and Withdrawn British Rail Stock have not been identified as WP:UK Rail pages yet...(It's taken me all lunchtime to reply as I keep finding stuff that needs doing – who'd be a Wikignome, eh?)
 * EdJogg 13:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

 * How about:
 * List of British Rail modern traction locomotive classes
 * List of British Rail diesel multiple unit classes
 * List of British Rail electric multiple unit classes
 * List of British Rail departmental multiple unit classes
 * I think the steam will be a seperate issue... I have a book from 1962 which lists about 130 different steam loco classes! I suspect List of British Rail steam locomotive classes will have to be restricted to BR-built locos to be anything sensible. Tom pw (talk) 15:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

 * It's a trade-off between brevity and accuracy, but I think this new set is accurate enough!
 * The existing steam loco page sensibly ignores the inherited classes, which probably accounts for the majority of your 130...but it would be appropriate to have two lists: one for those built before 1948 and inherited, and one for those built afterwards. But, as you hint, that's for another day.  One major project at a time!
 * EdJogg 15:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Should this be a list of lists?
This article is now basically a list of lists --- the only real content is other lists. Should it therefore be included on List of lists of lists? --69.191.176.31 (talk) 14:34, 24 May 2019 (UTC) (Muzer not logged in)

NSR No 1 (Battery electric) AKA British Railways B.E.L. No. 2
Should there be a section for battery-electric locomotives, which might include the ex-NSR No 1 (Battery electric) AKA British Railways B.E.L. No. 2 ? See the NRM page https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co205761/battery-locomotive-north-staffordshire-railway-electric-locomotive, which shows the locomotive in NSR livery and https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85210-high-level-kits/ for a photo showing the similar B.E.L. No. 1 in BR livery. 2A00:23C8:A889:B700:B496:1323:C55E:C14E (talk) 13:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Other classes
I see no information available regarding alternative fuel multiple units. Or Bi-Mode multiple units. Shouldn't it be added? 2A06:4944:8F3:2800:A14B:218F:17B6:809C (talk) 12:10, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of British Rail classes


text:
Talk:February 12

Otto Ludwig
This list contains the birthday of Otto Ludwig. However, his page notes his birthday as being February 11. Would someone with more Otto Ludwig resources mind figuring out the correct birthday and updating things? Cww 03:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Red links
I saw in the history of the 12 February article that some user has deleted a red link. I think thats irreasonable. red links encourage people to make new articles. so give red links a chance. thank you. Lenin1870to1924 (talk) 14:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Link removed because it was not his only film, and it's not common to link a filmmaker to his films in the date articles. Also, for the most part, bait redlinks are not included in date articles.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 14:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

1- it is common to mention a filmmaker films in "today in history" websites. I checked out the case after i read your message here and I understood that it is not common in wikipedia. why musics bands but not films ? it is irreasonable. but I accept it as an un-written Wikipedia guideline and act according to it. I suggest you (people in Wikiproject Days of the year) to write the policy about Births and Deaths secondary links clearly. 2- I quickly turned the redlink I made into a good link. I made an article for it. I would act according to this guideline in the future but i still assume redlinks harmless. redlinks would prevent some events and people in Calendar pages to be forgotten at all. being in red is better than not being at all. Lenin1870to1924 (talk) 12:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Peanuts / Schulz
As a newbie, there's alot I don't know. I try hard to figure things out on my own, but sometimes (like this occasion) I get stuck. The last Peanuts comic strip ran in the papers on Feb 13, 2000. Someone had added it to this page's events. I edited it to reflect fact. Charles M. Schultz wrote the last comic strip on Feb. 12, 2000. Why is the original Peanuts comic strip having run in the papers the day after Charles M. Schultz died notable but Charles M. Schultz having wrote his final strip before dying later that day not notable? It's not my intention to make others have to follow behind me to remove or re-edit any edits I make. I accept there will be occassions, but I do want to TRY to minimalize my "bad" edits. For making you have to or feel as if you had do it, I do apologize. I sincerely am trying to grasp this. Input would be most helpfull.

This is not like: "Marilyn Monroe filed her nails for the last time before overdosing." Atleast, I don't feel it is. Marilyn Monroe fans may differ. Peanuts was (and still is) a significant piece of Americana, as is Charles M. Schultz. Kentholke (talk) 13:18, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

 * There is not really a valid answer to that, because we have no consensus; I try to include only events of global importance (not "Americana"). And the main thing to keep in mind is (at least imho) that we have the link to the pertinent article here (I didn't look it it is already in the article about him, but the fact that he died the same day he wrote his last comic strip would be a fact for the article, not a notable event). Stick around wikipedia a bit more, and after some years you will get a feel for the place (and even than it can still surprise you at a pinch). Lectonar (talk) 13:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Firstly, thank you very much for such a quick reply and clearing some of my confusion up. I was under the impression (naive as it may seem) that there would have been some sort of overall consensus even on a minute scale. Of course, this revelation has brought a whole new confusion to my mind, but I'll try to figure it out. These are "project pages," are they not? A project where no one is in agreement? I'll try to figure it out.

 * Now I did use the term "Americana" for in the U.S., I'm certain many feel the same as I in regard to Charles M. Schultz and his Peanuts comic strip. Like you, I shy away from adding items of local or specific group interest only. I try to include items that would be significant to a substantial portion of the world's population. Being born and raised in the U.S., I'll also include items that affected the majority of the U.S. population in one way or another as well.

 * According to the Charles M. Schultz article - Peanuts ran for nearly 50 years without interruption and appeared in more than 2,600 newspapers in 75 countries. If that's not globally significant to some degree I'll eat my hat :)

 * I don't have to cross check that line from the article about 2600/75 because it seems right or dangerously close to being right. The link to the Charles M. Schultz article was included in the event, as was the link to Peanuts. I added a link to Cancer when I edited the event after seeing the article on cancer was a decent one.

 * Please do not misunderstand me. I'm not bent on the event being included. I personally would like to see it included because of who Charles M. Schultz was AND ALSO because I'd like to see Charlie Brown win one for a change. But if the event isn't included it's no skin off my nose, so to speak. Bear in mind, the 2000 event of "The last original 'Peanuts' comic strip appears in newspapers one day after Charles M. Schulz dies" is on the Feb 13 page. I am trying to decipher what makes one way of writing the same event "notable" and the other "non-notable." I have spotted many events I personally do not consider notable within the DOY pages, but do understand that others probably do consider (as evidenced by someone taking the time to include the event). Unless something goes beyond reason and appears notable only to the person who included it, I would not consider removing it without discussing it first. That, to me, seems proper.

 * According to Mufka's Talk page, there's clear instruction to leave any talk concerning date pages on the respective date page's talk section. Since it appears to me that Mufka edited it, I was hoping Mufka would chime in an "mentor" me with a paragraph where the dividing line lies between the event that was removed and the event that wasn't removed. Kentholke (talk) 15:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Let me start by rephrasing your question so I can be sure that I understand it. You are wondering why the event that explains Shultz' drawing the last comic is not notable while the publication of the last comic is.  The short answer is that I saw the former and I did not see the latter.  In any case, mentioning what really amounts to the same event on two dates is a bit much.  IMO, both lack significant notability.  They are interesting, but really just trivia.  With that said, you have as much say in determining notability as I do.  If discussion here forms a consensus that it is notable, then it is notable (and I might not like it, but that's how it goes).  Lectonar is technically correct that consensus does not exist in WP:DOY, but in reality and in practice consensus doesn't not exist by all measurable definitions.  Anytime when there is debate on notability, reasonable arguments are always considered and compromise is usually forthcoming.  I don't think anyone can convincingly argue that WP:DOY is not a guideline (by Webster's definition).  Guidelines are not "rules" but they help to "guide".

 * And a note on the message on my talk page: it is a good practice to have discussions about specific articles/events on the respective talk page and I have that message just to encourage organized debate. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 15:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The way I see it, the event summed up is Schultz dies, Peanuts ends. I agree 100% with not having the same event listed on back to back pages. I've had my head in these DOY pages since late October and have noticed approximately 20 events listed again and again (i.e., Guy Fawkes arrested, Guy Fawkes trial begins, Guy Fawkes is executed). Different events, yes. Same story, yes. I also think it is too much. I did not feel comfortable removing the Feb 12 reference to Schultz, certainly part of my newbie status. When in Rome, do as the Romans. I'm in that phase right now of trying to learn what it is that Romans do.

Every Christmas since the late sixties, A Charlie Brown Christmas has aired across the U.S. and according to my closest friend who grew up in the U.K., still resides thereand is as old as I, it has been aired across the U.K. as well. It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown is aired every Halloween, Be My Valentine, Charlie Brown airs every Valentine's Day, A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving airs in the days leading up to Thanksgiving. Dozens of other Charlie Brown specials air nationwide in the U.S. and in the U.K. at various points throughout the year during primetime.

According to the WIKI article, after the Valentine special was originally aired, children all over America sent Valentines to Charlie Brown out of sympathy. To me, and it seems to some of the people who read 2600 papers around the world in 75 different countries, Peanuts is not trivial. Proof is within the TV network conglomerates in the U.S. and U.K. airing these specials during primetime—every year. That's huge bucks I strongly suspect. Would the conglomerates air something trivial to increase their profit?

I am struggling to understand (and for this I have to apologize) how something that is revered in 75 countries is less notable than this page's events of:

 * 1719 - The Onderlinge van 1719 u.a., the oldest existing life insurance company in the Netherlands is founded
 * 1825 - The Creek cede the last of their lands in Georgia to the United States government, and migrate west.
 * 1914 - In Washington, D.C., the first stone of the Lincoln Memorial is put into place.

How are these three events considered to be globally significant? They are not. The first is geared toward the Netherlands and certain people who would be interested in the history of insurance companies. The second is geared toward the pro-Indian movement and U.S. historians. The third? U.S. historians, maybe, but I doubt that. The civil rights movement? I doubt that as well. Architectural historians? I find that hard to swallow also. It's simply a "first." If we stop to list the "first" house that was built in every town around the world (which I hope we can agree that a house is generally more significant than a stone), how would this page look?

According to the WP:DOY page, ''When compiling lists of Events for inclusion in Wikipedia:WikiProject Days of the year articles, it is necessary to keep in mind that what's listed should be notable both around the globe and throughout time. The items selected should be relevant to all Wikipedians, regardless of nationality, interests, and beliefs.'' The page does go on further to explain Births and Deaths.

If one was to adhere strictly to this guideline, these pages would be quite bare I do believe. I think common sense should continue to be applied as it has been in permitting substantially notable events that don't fall within that guideline(s) to be listed. Who's common sense, you ask? A general consensus. How do we go about determining what the general consensus is in this case? You tell me. I'm new here. My vote would be to have the reference to Schultz and Peanuts added to one day due to the 50 year/2600 paper/75 countries details, and I would vote for it to be on the Feb 13 page exactly as it is now.

I was only trying to understand why "Schultz dies, Peanuts ends" was notable written one way and not the other. Your answer: you think it's trivial and you didn't see the other reference on Feb 13. I got the answer I was seeking, now I'm a happy camper. Thanks! Kentholke (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I think we are mostly in agreement. The only thing I disagree with is that the event should be listed at all.  His death is already listed under the Deaths section.  But I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.  So consensus exists.  You want it there, I don't, but I don't care.  Consensus.  Now if someone else comes by and says they think it should be excluded, discussion can start again until a new consensus is formed.  Have a look at this drawing.

 * It's a continuous battle of "why can't my event be listed when this other stupid one is?" There are many events that really don't belong.  But the newest ones always get noticed first.  The goal of WP:DOY is to make the articles as useful as possible to the largest number of people.  In reality, it is entirely subjective.  But the real meat of the matter is that we want to keep out events like "Joe Schmoe was the first to ever say the word cabbage on the radio."

 * As a general rule, you should be bold. Don't worry that you're new.  Everyone is new at some point.  And everyone that is not new should know enough to respect WP:BOLD.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 18:09, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Mufka, I agree that we seem to agree mostly. If his death is listed in this page's death section, as I feel it should be, then adding an event in this matter shouldn't be appropriate. Something more major...? Possibly. Charles M. Schultz, no. He was big to many but his death and the events associated with his death did not make the world come to a screeching halt. I see no reason to stretch any boundaries in this case.

 * Please remember, I'm not bent on having the event, I just feel a substantial number of people/readers/Wikipedians would be interested in it for many years to come.

 * As far as the February 13, 2000 event listing, I suppose a rewording would be in order, something to the order of:

 * "After fifty years of uninterrupted daily publication, Charles M. Schultz's original comic strip "Peanuts" appears in newspapers for the final time."

 * The articles on Charles Schultz and on Peanuts both clearly indicate early into them the "original" version of his comic strip ceased upon his death on Feb 12. A rewording such as this would address the "deaths in the events section" issue. A rewording would be my idea at compromise instead of complete concession for either of us. I also think that anyone else who might be viewing this discussion consider adding their opinion in effort to find a more general consensus. Right now, not having heard further from Lectonar, it's two to one with me on the losing end. Unless anyone else chimes in with an opinion to keep the reference (event), reworded or otherwise, I feel it should be me to "bow gracefully" in letting it be removed.Kentholke (talk) 21:30, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Chiming in a bit late here, as I do this from work and don't work on weekends, I'd rather say we have a 1-1-1 situation here, as Mufka has a slightly different approach as to why he would not include it. I'd say, nobody will complain if you put it in. Lectonar (talk) 15:03, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't see how a comic strip ending can be considered an important world event. Schulz' death is in the Deaths section of this article; I can't see a justification for adding him or anything he did to the Events section of any Day or Year article. The first comment in this section claims Schulz wrote his last comic strip on the day he died. That cannot have been the case; he had to stop working due to illness. There is no way he could have done anything other than lie in bed on the day he died of colon cancer. Lkjhgfdsa 0 (talk) 15:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

2010
The winter olympics are on the 12 this year(2010) Also tommoro is abraham lincons birthday(same as winter olympics thi year) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.125.205 (talk) 01:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The starting date of the Olympic games does not get listed on the date pages. You won't find any listed (except maybe the first modern games).  This is because the Olympics are planned events and the starting date is not of particular historical significance.  You might find it listed in 2010 but not here.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 01:52, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Abraham Lincoln is in the Births section. Lkjhgfdsa 0 (talk) 15:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Ns — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.111.25.42 (talk) 05:24, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Isaac Woodard - Touch of Evil???
What does the "Touch of Evil" movie have to do with the Isaac Woodard incident? Thisdaytrivia (talk) 23:30, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Holidays and Observances - National Freedom to Marry Day and Sexual and Reproductive Health Awareness Day (Canada)
I don't think these two days fit in the criteria noted at Days of the year/Holidays and observances. Neither is notable or official - "Awareness observances are often minor creations of non-profit or private groups. These observances should not be placed in the Holidays and observances section unless the day is proven notable or has been passed into law, making it an official national day." and "In general, new holidays and observances should not be placed in the Holidays and observances section; except if it is signed officially by a state or a country as a state or national holiday. New holidays that do not belong to this category can only be placed in the Holidays and observances section after the days are proven notable, with significant number of followers, and are not controversial." --2607:FEA8:D5E0:A24:ED48:C7E0:5F2A:EF7F (talk) 00:48, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. Shall they be removed? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 11:29, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I removed it. It's not listed in the linked wiki article anyway, which confirms its un-notability.--Rochelimit (talk) 06:41, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Would you say Darwin Day likewise is more an awareness day than a holiday or observation? based on the linked article2607:FEA8:D5DF:F3D9:75FD:9C5:E8BC:345A (talk) 16:38, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * yes, and 'national freedom to marry day' too. both should be removed. otherwise, why not 'whipped peanut butter cupcake day' again?142.163.195.167 (talk) 10:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2019
Add Feb 12 2019 - The Toronto District School Board (largest school board in Canada, 4th in North America) closes all admin sites and schools for the day, the first and only time since the board amalgamation of the districts of Toronto.

Wiltronn (talk) 12:31, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

 * I really don't see how this is an event of historical significance, given the lack of references you are citing and the current state of the Toronto District School Board article. I would suggest you try and improve that article first. Deb (talk) 12:55, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Ya, this is fairly unique. It's of regional significance. Picard102 (talk) 13:25, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The only quoted reference does not support this conclusion. Deb (talk) 13:29, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ‑‑ El Hef  ( Meep? ) 14:52, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2019
Add under Births 1978 Toyshika Peterson, Infamous Internet Star Toyshika (talk) 16:53, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: It would appear that this person is not infamous enough to have a Wikipedia article. Please see WP:BIRTHDOY. Favonian (talk) 17:00, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

2019 name change for Macedonia not source
I thought every new entry had to be sourced? so why is the 2019 entry about the name change of Macedonia not sourced and allowed to remained on the page without a source ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.70.125 (talk) 17:38, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that one out. Deb (talk) 18:24, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

2021 New Year
I think the Chinese New Year is on Feb 12 2021. Should I add it? Azpineapple (talk) 01:17, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

 * No, because it happens every year and is always on a different date. Deb (talk) 11:59, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:February 12


text:
Talk:February 13

This can't be right?
1635 - The first public school in the U.S., Boston Latin Public School, is founded. That's what it says. I will check but I don't think that date is right. cpswarrior 06:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I think i used the wrong function in the wrong spot. I was trying to put the edit by 71.135.190.181 up for review to see if that was vandalism. I will just mark it as Vandalized! --Kingofslackrs 05:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Removed birth entries for 1990 and 91 labeled "Scottish Boy" and "Ninja," respectively. Obviously vandalism.--68.78.41.26 01:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering how there could be an entry for 2008 already. Unless Wikipedia now predicts the future, I doubt it's accuracy. jfreak213 9 February 2008

Apology to the Stolen Generations
I've been asked to demonstrate that the apology to the Stolen Generations was not "non-notable". I would have thought it was bloody obvious that the apology is hugely notable. It has been a primary topic of debate in Australia for over ten years. I invite you to look at the articles Stolen Generations, History Wars and Bringing Them Home. I invite you to consult the Australian media online (try the Sydney Morning Herald and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation), as well as world media (try the New Zealand Herald, the BBC and France 24, for example). This is one of the most notable events in Australian history, and I'm astounded that I'm actually being asked to demonstrate that. Aridd (talk) 01:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I suggest that most people around the world are not familiar with the event or the reason for the apology. Generally, it is difficult to consider something globally notable until after the event has occurred and the world has had a chance to react to it.  The fact that something has been a topic of debate in Australia indicates that it is an important issue in Australia.  It does not help to support the suggestion that this particular event will have an impact on people all over the world.  In ten years, will people in Canada mark the date?  What about China?  I hope that you understand that this is meant to be a dialog to help reach consensus that the event is notable on a global scale and will remain so for decades to come.  I am not suggesting that it definitely does not belong, but the reasons for its inclusion need to be established or the entry will be the subject of edit wars in the future.  If something is to be included, it is helpful to have a solid argument for its inclusion rather than a suggestion that anyone who doesn't understand its significance simply read the news.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 02:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

This event is extremely notable for the history of australia, it is one of the most historic and im very sure that in 10 years time people will be celebrating this day, as it is 'Sorry Day', and ive looked at some of the events in this article and i doubt some of those are as notable, maybe in America or wherever your from. Youv'e said the events have to be notable around the world and most of the events here I havent even heard of and im pretty sure a whole country wont be celebrating as the greatest day for national equality between indigenous and non-indigenous australians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.216.154.244 (talk) 05:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * You are correct that some of the events listed are not notable but the newest ones get attention first and this event has to be evaluated on its own merits, not compared to others. Again, it is clearly asserted that the event "is extremely notable for the history of australia" but why is it notable for the whole world?  What impact does the event have on the world?  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 06:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Again, some of the events on their arent notable for the whole world, but their still there, im not saying they shouldn't, because they to are historic events, so is this day. Eventually this event will be on the list, so why not put it on as people will remember it as a notable event. It does not say on this list that it has to be an event of worldwide notability, but it is a list of events. Take for example the fact, what if a school student wanted to do and exam on all of the notable events on this day, he may come to wikipedia, then i would assume that he would want to know about this event. This subject has been an australian issue for decades and this day is the most notable of the evnts involving that issue, it has been talked about in sources all oer the world as mentioned above by arrid. This site is a place for informing people about notable subjects in the world, and this is a notable subject. there are many pages on this site that are not notable around the world yet they get a whole page, all i am trying to do here is to put a small sentence about this historic event in history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.216.154.244 (talk) 06:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I can't stress enough that this discussion is not about "some of the events". This is about this apology event.  You call this a historic event in history, but it is barely history.  You haven't answered my question of how it impacts the rest of the world and it seems that you can't.  It seems that you have a particular interest in the event but can't explain why everyone else should have the same interest.  I'm trying to help you to provide support for your event.  But doing so requires answering the question of worldwide impact.  If your argument is that "Eventually this event will be on the list" then it shouldn't be there today.  This list is intended to be a permanent record of the world's most notable events.  Events are not to be added and removed as they fall out of favor.  That's why it usually takes time after an event occurs to determine its long-term global notability.  You mentioned that "It does not say on this list that it has to be an event of worldwide notability".  Please have a look at WP:DAYS and WP:NGS for the background on what is meant to be included in the date articles.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 07:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I was perhaps a little irritable last night, and for that I'm sorry. It was almost 3am, and I was tired. I see your point, but I can assure you that this is an extremely notable event, and not just in Australia - although the fact that it is widely acknowledged as one of the biggest events in Australian history should surely be enough in itself to warrant inclusion. Three points. First, this has been an event in the making for almost ten years, ever since the Bringing Them Home report in 1997. During that time, it has been the focus of considerable attention and debate in Australia, which has been echoed by the world media. It has arguably been the big issue of the past decade in Australia. Second, how many events do you know of which are widely reported in the world media before they even happen? There was coverage of the apology in the media in New Zealand, the UK and France (at the very least) before it actually happened, with each coverage insisting on the significant importance of this event for the whole of Australian history. Third, this is part of what is indisputably an issue of international concern, at least within the former settler colonies of the UK (New Zealand, Canada, the US, South Africa): that of reconciliation between settlers and indigenous peoples. This is not some off-hand apology. It is something which has been strenuously and continuously debated for years, and which has required very careful preparation. It is of huge symbolic importance, and has been explicitly intended as a turning point in Australian history. It has received widespread international media coverage, reporting on its significance. It is, in a very real sense, already part of history; it was a major chapter in history before it even officially happened, and was treated as such. It became a major chapter in history before even happening, and that alone should make its inclusion obvious. Not to include it would be... downright bizarre. Especially when the entry for 2007 on this page is the resignation of the chairman of the Kuomintang, an event which I'm sure almost everyone would agree is less relevant, drew less prolonged international attention and has less international impact than the apology to the Stolen Generations. If we look at the page for February 12, the entry for 2007 is a shooting which killed five people in Salt Lake City. A tragedy, yes, but I think it's safe to say with 100% certainty that, a few years from now, the number of people who actively remember the apology to the Stolen Generations will dwarf the number of people who actively remember the Salt Lake City shooting. Likewise for the 2008 entry for February 5: a tornado in the southern US. Tragic? Yes. Noteworthy? Yes. Memorable? No doubt. As noteworthy and memorable as the apology to the Stolen Generations? I think not. The 2008 entry for January 31 is the beaching of the MS Riverdance. Compare that with the apology to the Stolen Generations. I understand your point, but I maintain that the validity of including the apology to the Stolen Generations on this page should be blindingly obvious. Aridd (talk) 11:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * First Mufka is right: historical significance can only be established after the event has occured. We must be able to see the reactions from the event to determine its significance.  Just because various media outlets call something historical doesn't mean that it is.  Always remember 2 things about media outlets: 1.They usually buy their stories from other media outlets (if media'A' calls something 'historical' and media'B' buys that story, then media'B' is going to call it 'historical' as well.) and 2.Media outlets are in the business of selling their product.  This usually means slightly modifying stories to make them appear more important then they really are.  Never take what media outlets publish as the whole truth.

 * Second this would appear to be a significant event in Australian political history. However its true significance will not be know for some time yet.  I would suggest removing it for now and re-evaluate it after all the reactions from all the parties involved have been documented and incorporated into the Wikipedia articles.

 * Third please don't try to establish notability of an event by pointing at other events and campairing them. "That one is there so mine should be too" doesn't establish notability, it just fill up the talk page.  Please establish notability by pointing to the  properly referenced sections on the article of the subject of your event.  Grouf(talk • contribs) 14:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to address your points, Grouf. Please don't be offended if I emphasise that this is an issue which I know a lot about and which I've been following for a long time, whereas you, clearly, know nothing about it. I'm not criticising you, but I am asking you to accept that I know what I'm talking about. And that, to anyone who knows anything about this issue, the very suggestion that it may be "non-notable" or "not yet historic", is the height of absurdity. (When I say it's absurd, I'm not just flinging some word out. I do mean it's absurd.) Now, to address your comments. I'll say it again, just once more: Suggesting that the apology made to the Stolen Generations is somehow not notable or not yet a major historical event is simply to betray extreme ignorance of this event. I'm not criticising you for not knowing about it. But I am saying that, to anyone who knows anything about it, its notability and historical importance are glaringly obvious, and have been for many years. If you are honest with yourself, you'll recognise that you have no basis for saying that it's not notable. If you're not willing to take my word for it, look it up. The articles I mentioned earlier are there for you to read. They all have sources. All I'm asking is that you try to learn more about it, enough to gain an understanding of the issue, before you start advocating the removal of something which it would be truly absurd to remove (I quite honestly cannot emphasise this enough). I'm going on an extended wikibreak now, so I'm going to leave it at that - and trust in the knowledge and common sense of my fellow Wikipedians. If you have any questions, you can drop a line on my talk page, but I may not reply any time soon. Aridd (talk) 18:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) "Historical significance can only be established after the event has occured." I'm sorry to be blunt, but: You're wrong. You have to see this in context. Right up to the late 1960s, thousands of Aboriginal children were snatched from their parents through state-sanctioned policies. In 1997, the Bringing Them Home report shed light on the extent of what had happened. Ever since then, the issue has been at the forefront of political debates and debates within society in Australia. More than that, it became a central issue in a debate about Australian history itself. For over ten years, Aboriginals and others asked for an apology. The issue of whether or not to apologise was central to the debate about the past, present and future of Australian society, Australia's self-image, Australian identity and Australian inter-ethnic relations. That's why I said the apology became hugely historically significant before it even happened, because it's been hugely significant for ten years while it's been debated. I should add that the National Sorry Day and the Bringing Them Home report are considered to have been historical landmarks, and that the actual apology, deriving from them, is unquestionably (and by definition) a lot more important. If events leading up to an event and preparing it are considered to be significant historic landmarks, what do you think that means about the end event itself? Q.E.D.
 * 2) "This would appear to be a significant event in Australian political history. However its true significance will not be know for some time yet." I think I've just answered that, and I hope you can see why you were wrong.
 * 3) "'That one is there so mine should be too'" doesn't establish notability." It's not 'mine'. Your implication is quite frankly insulting. It's a matter of basic fact. This is a tremendously important historical event, which has been recognised as such for the past decade already, not just by the media but by Australian politicians of all political parties and by academics, whatever their point of view on the Stolen Generations.
 * Aridd, I would suggest that each time you post on this topic, you are making the case stronger against inclusion. Suggesting that someone should "accept that I know what I'm talking about" is not the way it works here.  We can't take your word for it.  That would be subjective and unfair.  If an event is globally notable it needs to be considered notable by people who know nothing about it.  You have not succeeded in establishing why this event is important outside of Australia.  Your statement that "this is an issue which I know a lot about and which I've been following for a long time" indicates clear bias on the subject and perhaps an emotional connection to it.  We'll remove it for now and hope that some other objective editors can come along and shed some light on the subject.   -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 18:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm with inclusion. This event is significantly important and deserves to be included as an event in Wikipedia. Perhaps living outside of Australia, foreigners will not understand but this was not just some 'sorry'. This was The Sorry. I invite you to go back to review several other events recorded for 2007 - things like 'highest stock exchange rate' etc etc are included - I'm not saying they should be removed, because they are significant events, AS IS Kevin Rudd apologizing to the natives of Australia.

DanEdmonds (talk) 06:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Karnal
The first "on this day" entry for this date, February 13, takes you to the entry for the Battle of Karnal. There you read that the battle took place on February 24. Which is it? Axworthy's Sword of Persia says February 24, while a couple of earlier secondary works say February 13, but either way Wikipedia should probably settle on one consistent date, no? 173.79.208.33 (talk) 19:37, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:February 13