text:
Talk:Kipchaks

Comments
to merge with Polovtsian? Mikkalai 09:08, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I think that one should redirect here (this spelling should resemble the native one better), but the content should be fully merged first. --Shallot 13:56, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, The native spelling is "Kypchaks" (with the "dull i" sound, spelt "Кыпчак" in Cyrillic). I happen to have a book written by an "ideologist" of this movement. It contains quite a few interesting facts, but they are hard to be separated from politically biased crap, kind of Zestauferovisms in Habiru/Eberite/Avar stuff some time ago. Mikkalai 17:52, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Okay, I've moved it to the version with y. I figured it was a Cyrillic transliteration anyway so it'd be imprecise in any event, but if Kypchaks is better that's fine. --Shallot 18:50, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Move from 'Kypchak'
Sorry if the move from 'Kypchak' to 'Kipchak' offended anyone. It's simply that 'Kipchak' is the commonest form of the name, and that most frequently encountered in academic publications (it's taken from Russian - Кипчак - rather than Kazakh or Uzbek). One advantage of this is that one avoids becoming embroiled in nationalist debate about transliteration, as both the Uzbeks and Kazakhs have a claim on the Kipchak heritage, and they do not transliterate in the same way (or, indeed, consistently). If we really want to be accurate then it ought to be 'Qipchaq/Qypchaq', but this seems to be getting into the realms of pedantry. If people feel strongly about this then it can be left, but on the whole using the most familiar form of a word seems to me to be a good rule of thumb. (Sikandarji 14:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC))

I've consulted further with a friend of mine who speaks both Uzbek and Kazakh, and it seems that the spelling 'Kypchak' is really rather misleading. It's true that "ы" is normally transliterated as "y" in Russian, but the sound represented by the same cyrillic letter in Kazakh is quite different, not a Russian "uy" but the Turkic back-vowel "u" (as in 'put') which in modern Turkish in the latin script is represented by an "i" without a dot. Accordingly I still think "Kipchak" is the best spelling, whereas "Kypchak" is a wholly unfamiliar form of the word, and is no more accurate as a transliteration.

The Kipchaks (Polovtsi) in russian steppes
They arrived in the steppes of the northern shore of the Black Sea during the 11th century. In 1068 they win Russian army on the river of the Alta, devastated the Russian borderland. The Dasht-e Kipchak (the Kipchak' plains, polovetskaya step is the steppes von the Volga, Don, Azov regions). Don't rv it. Ben-Velvel 22:20, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't rv it if (1) you have a source (see WP:CITE) and (2) if the information you're putting into the article made sense in English! Tom e rtalk  04:29, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The Citation from your article: "They arrived in the steppes from the northern shore of the Black Sea during the 12th century, under the pressure of the Mongols." It is nonsense and absence of logic.!!! Mongols in 12 century lived in the central Asia, but not of the shore of the Black sea. Kipchaks were nomads and lived in steppes only.  At 11-12 centuries Kipchaks moved from the river Irtysh to the river Volga, and then to the Dnieper and to the Danube. The Desht-e-Kipchak   is the  area from Irtysh to Danube. In 1068 Kipchaks devastated Kievan Rus.  Polovtsi is yellowish in old Russian.  The Old-Russian dictionary is the source. Citation from The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.  2001-05. "Polovtsi or Cumans, nomadic East Turkic people, identified with the Kipchaks and known in Russian as Polovtsi. Coming from NW Asian Russia, they conquered S Russia and Walachia in the 11th cent... They founded a nomadic state in the steppes along the Black Sea..."  Other sources: Pouchenie by Vladimir Monomakh,  medieval Russian Annal (in Russian) and the Tale of Igor's Campaign, medieval Russian Annal (in Russian). Ben-Velvel 15:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

sir -> kipchak
please write about it, the kipchaks were known before under the name sir from orkhon-enisey inscriptions. 24.218.8.72 05:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge
I think the Cumans article should be merged into this one. After all, aren't both terms different denominations for the same people? Rsazevedo (talk) 17:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree.--Nostradamus1 (talk) 00:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Cumans are a subgroup, just the western branch of the Kypchaks. bogdan (talk) 00:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not convinced that they are a subgroup. How about the Polovtsy? Are they also another subgroup?--Nostradamus1 (talk) 04:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Cumans are surely just the western branch of Kipchaks, therefore Cumans and Kipchaks are not the same.Spring01 (talk) 23:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not. Köten (a Kipchak ruler) who was forced to emigrate to Hungary was both a Kipchak and Cuman. When so many scholars say that the term Kipchak, Cuman, Polovtsy, etc. refer to the same people we have to accept that. I recently encountered the term Kuman-Kipchak in The Turks in World History by C.V. Findley. Perhaps, this should be the title of the new wiki article that would combine the two articles (Kipchaks and Cumans).--Nostradamus1 (talk) 03:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Cumans are just the western part of Kipchaks if you like it or not. So Cumans does not equal Kipchaks. Therefore having just one article wouldn`t be very encyclopedic. Spring01 (talk) 01:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Cumans are not Western Kipchaks. The two articles have to be merged. Provide sources that clearly state the difference between the Cumans and Kipchaks. I have sources stating that the Cumans, Kipchaks, Kun, Polovtsy, Komanoi are one and the same people. Also there are maps indicating Cuman presence in the east. So how they can be the Western Kipchaks?--Nostradamus1 (talk) 10:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm agnostic on the merger as I don't know enough on the subject. However, something needs to be done about how Polovtsy and Polovtsian redirect to Cumans where the Polovtsy are described as Kipchaks. Other redirects may need checking too--Peter cohen (talk) 15:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I propose that we ask those opposing the merge of the two articles to provide sources clearly stating that the Cumans and Kipchaks are two separate ethnic groups. Merely reading the term Western Kipchaks is not sufficient to define them as a separate ethnic group. I do realize that there is a great deal of publications referring to Kipchaks as Cumans. Therefore I suggest we create a new article called Kuman-Kipchak that would merge the two articles. All other names such as Cumans, Kumans, Kipchaks, Qipchaks, Polovtsy, etc would redirect to Kuman-Kipchak.--Nostradamus1 (talk) 16:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

 * For me, both of them goes. But we should keep in mind that, even though Encyclopædia Britannica admits that Cumans are just the western branch of Kipchaks, it has two separate articles; namely Cuman and Kipchak. --Chapultepec (talk) 14:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Reconsider Merging
Hi all. I am Romanian, and thus directly concerned about this snippet of history, and I would like to give my view on the issue: While we can all see that the Cumans (or however you wanna write this) were part of the Kipchaks, I do not think it would be the best solution to merge this article under Kipchacks, OR Russian History, for that matter. I will illustrate why not - it would be the same as saying "well, since Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc., are all Turkic people, why would we need to separate them?". The difference comes not from ethnicity, but from what they did from the moment they separated from the main group, politically, organizationally, militarily, etc. History is all about evolution, and while I think it would be a great idea to link all these domains (russian history, turkic heritage, black sea history, etc), I do not think subordinating entire populations to some ethnic tribe half way across the world helps have a better idea of the history of a specific area. ... at least for the fact that Cumans played an important role in the birth of Walachia, and so it should be "findable" easily. Thanks :-)  Fotescu, March 4, 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fotescu (talk • contribs) 12:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Do Not Merge!
I'm Hungarian. Merging the Kuns with the Kipchaks would be Like merging the Hungarians with the Oghuz Turks being that they split from them. The only difference is that the Cuman empire didn't survive. They still deserve a separate chapter as they were in history.

I'm inclined to agree to not merge. If the Cumans were a subgroup of the Kipchaks then they are not all the Kipchaks. There seems to be sufficient material to establish that they at least had their own historical development, even if the broader matters of language and culture did not diverge so much. There are many articles on wikipedia covering subsets of larger ethnic groups. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree not to merge as well. Kipchak Khanate and Kipchak could be important related subjects, however, it is not even fully clear whether or not Cumans were even Turkic as Kipchaks being perceived. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:37, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Magyars did not "split from the Oghuz Turks" - Magyars are Finno-Ugrian people from the Urals, not Turks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.1.232 (talk) 04:32, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Do not merge, from Bulgaria
Do not merge! This merger is aimed at undermining the role of Christianity among Cumans and in the Steppes before the affirmation of Islam in the 15th century! Historical truth should be the only motive, not politics, please! 15.195.185.83 (talk) 14:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Ethnicity
I removed the ethnicity section, since it was a very unconstructive work of vandalism. It had no references whatsoever and it put up wild unsupported theories about racial issues of Cumans and Kipchaks, while it is an established fact that they were a turkic people.The same was posted in the Cuman People article and I removed it from there too. 95.223.187.171 (talk) 14:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What fact is proven? Who Turkic? Here is a great example that does suggest relationship of Cumans and Kipchaks while still implies about a possible difference: Qypchaq Languages: Cuman and Armenian-Kipchak languages Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:20, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Mistake
=== Hello ! Please correct the text on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchak_people, chapter Language. To say that Hungarian language is similar to Kiptchak and Cuman, it is a big mistake. Turkic languages are belonging Altaic languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages), Hungarian belongs to the Ouralic family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language). Instead of it, you can say that the Hungarian language got a lot of words from Turkic languages !Thanks !
 * Turkic belongs to - (drum-roll) - Turkic languages! Altaic is a dead theory no longer supported, even by the linguist that first proposed it.  Magyar language is one of the Finno-Ugric languages, and is completely separate from Turkic.50.111.1.232 (talk) 04:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Blond and blue-eyed?
Ther article says that they were blond and blue eyed because they descended from the Dingling whom the chinese describes as auch but the article on the Dingling contradicts this saying: Chinese records do not mention the physical appearance of the Dingling, suggesting general homogeneity with people of the Asiatic region, and their name appears rarely

It also seems highly unlikey considering that the article calls them a Turcic people... I'll remove this part with the reference to here and the Dingling article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.53.210.214 (talk) 12:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello 141.53.210.214, generally sourced sentences should not be deleted. Thanks. 62.143.41.82 (talk) 17:19, 10 May 2012 (CET)

Turkish-language map
The map used in the article is informative and relevant. But unfortunately since it is taken from Turkish Wikipedia, the names of the locations are in Turkish. File:State of Cuman-Kipchak (13.) tr.png Is it possible to reproduce the same map but with English names inserted? werldwayd (talk) 18:23, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Names in foreign languages
The head section has a long list of names of the confederation in various foreign languages. This is not quite appropriate; the English wikipedia should give the name in English, and names in other languages should be used in the corresponding wikipedias (or in the Wikictionary.) But since those names have been entered,  I think it is no big harm to leave them there. -- JorgeStolfi --187.106.62.53 (talk) 05:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Kipchaks


text:
Talk:Closure operator

Useful - my thanks to Axel for pulling this together.

Charles Matthews 09:09, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

An errata?
Where say:

they satisfy $$\operatorname{cl}(X_1 \cup\dots\cup X_n) = \operatorname{cl}(X_1)\cup\dots\cup \operatorname{cl}(X_n) $$ for all integers n ≥ 0

should not say? either:

they satisfy $$\operatorname{cl}(X_1 \cup\dots\cup X_n) = \operatorname{cl}(X_1)\cup\dots\cup \operatorname{cl}(X_n) $$ for all integers n ≥ 1

or

they satisfy $$\operatorname{cl}(X_0 \cup\dots\cup X_n) = \operatorname{cl}(X_0)\cup\dots\cup \operatorname{cl}(X_n) $$ for all integers n ≥ 0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.216.40.253 (talk) 20:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Actually, that does make sense for n = 0. If you make the convention that the union of 0 sets is empty, then it reads:
 * $$\operatorname{cl}(\emptyset)=\emptyset.$$
 * — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposed merge from consequence operator
I'm proposing that consequence operator be merged into this article (at closure operator). The only significant difference I see as that the operator may be required to be finitary, in that
 * (3) $$X = \bigcup\{C(Y)\mid Y \in F(X)\}$$,

then $$C$$ is (finitary, an operation of finite character (although not precisely the definition we're presently using), etc.)

 * (Although I'm sure there's a better characterization of finitary.) — Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 20:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The finite consequence operator is much more than a mere closure operator. It is the major notion used in the subject universal logic. It is a major investigation of the Polish logicians due to its algebraic properties. The basic definition is correctly stated as it was done by Tarski. There are two types but the finite one is characterized by the general logic-system, which, like the consequence operator, is a set-theoretic generalization of a formal logic system. It is used to investigate natural languages, as is the main goal of universal logic. Raherrmann 19:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Mathematically, a finite (I'd call it finitary) consequence operator is exactly a closure operator of finite character. As the latter concept has applications in (finitary) universal algebra, and there's little that can be said about a finitary consequence operator in the abstract that would not apply to a finitary closure operator, or the operation of the closure of a set with respect to the operations of a partial algebra. And Tarski is in closure operator already. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 19:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I am aware of all of this, but the finite consequence operators do not form a complete lattice. They do form a join-complete lattice. Using universal logic notions, when this is applied to any collection of physical theories, then one obtains the sup. unification, one that does not alter any of the actual physical theories. This fact has just recently been completely related to "general" logic-systems. Obviously, this page is a further refinement of the rather small introduction that appears as but an example of a closure operator as used in logic. There is also a more general class of objects called deductiuve processes that have consequence operators as a major subclass. 4.249.39.6 17:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

That should all be here, or in a separate article on finitary closure operators. That they are "consequence operators" is irrelevant. (Besides, "consequence operators" doesn't seem to be a standard name....) — Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 17:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll discuss below whether they are indeed irrelevant in their properties. In 1981 Dziobiak, changed the name to "finite consequence operations." In 1983, I changed it to "operators" for their use as set-maps. Apparently, this is now being used by those in universal logic. Even though it is true that they are finitary closure operators, it is shown in a paper just published that they when the notion of the general logic-system is carefully defined, that the finite consequence operators they generate are of two general types. When one can use general logic-systems to generate finitary closure operators, then they also would be of two general types. These types depend upon whether the rules of inference as set-theoretically defined are finite or not. The finite ones are sufficient for standard formal logic such as propositional and predicate. Of course, closure operators need not be restricted and related to say ZF set theory. Now to obtain a non-finite (general) consequence operator via the notion of rules of inference, it was shown many years ago that you need an infinite product space notion. The language one uses can have different effects upon the operators. The greatest effect is upon collections of operators. When languages are specially constructed, like restrictions of the propositional language, there are significant collections of consequence operators using these languages that are not meet-complete. These are very specifically defined wwf and the result are relative to the wwf's forms. I don't believe that this sort of thing happens for finite closure operators that are not so language specific as are some consequence operators. So, there probably is a difference when the closure operator is view as a language specific consequence operator.

In 1963, Robinson embedded a formal language into a nonstandard structure. (The hyphen has not been used for 20 years.) He developed a nonstandard semantics and applied it to model theory. In particular, he shows the need for a dual approach to what constitutes a truth-function, there being two acceptable but different such notions. I did the same thing for proof theory. But, this is done in a more general way via the consequence operator. Now the nonstandard consequence oeprators that extend the finite consequence operator are not usually finitary in the usual sense. Further, although they have many interesting properties, the extended operators are usually not a closure operator unless one restricts the sets upon which they are defined. The extensions can be extended by definition to a consequence operator that makes every "external" set inconsistent. These ideas and many more complement the Robinson results. I also point out that once again nonstandard consequence operators can differ in that certain significant properties are relative to specific language constructions. Of course, one can consider the general theory of finite closure operators within ZF set theory and then investigate the usual nonstandard stuff and today such a general investigation would be considered as rather. It is when you get much more specific properties that things become interesting. But, the basic question is whether Wikipedia is interested in listing such specific categories in a more refined manner? 4.249.12.31 22:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Don't merge is my initial gut reaction. Although these are all clearly very similar concepts,their domain of application is different. If one is not careful, one will then get the urge to merge in Galois connection and also merge praclosure, which are also very similar concepts. Before long, we'll merge in all of topos theory into here. Its probably more useful to keep the articles separate, according to the classical divisions between the subjects, and then go to great lengths to demonstrate, in each article, how they are closely related to this other concept coming from this other branch of mathematics. This is in part because students will be reading textbooks that are still written along the classical subject distinctions; you want to open their minds to the possibilities; but you don't want to just confuse them. But that's my gut reaction. A well-written, well-done merge would change my mind. linas 14:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid I don't see the distinction between the concepts, while Galois connection seems quite different to me. The only differences I see between what should be in the respective articles is:
 * Field of reference:
 * consequence operator lives on subsets of a fixed set
 * closure operator lives on an arbitrary partially ordered set
 * Closure operator separates out the finitary operator, which only makes sense (to me) in the domain of subsets of a fixed set. However, that's still only an additional section to this article.
 * Consequence operator has sections on "non-standard" consequence operators; however, those sections do not seem to me to have adequate context to have any meaning. (For what it's worth, I've done some work in non-standard analysis.)
 * consequence operator has a section on the lattice/semi-lattice of all consequence operators. I don't know if there are corresponding results in the more general closure operator context.
 * consequence operator has a lot of references by Herrmann, who apparently created the concept of general logic-system which has since been merged elsewhere. (No comment as to whether this is a good idea, but it is a difference.)
 * For what it's worth, most of what used to be in general logic-system now lives in this article in #Closure operators in logic (in which the closure operator also lives on the set of all formulas in the language.)
 * Also, for what it's worth, the hyphen in "non-standard" (v. "nonstandard") is used a lot more than the hyphen in "logic-system" (v. "logic system").
 * My present take is that the "nonstandard" sections of consequence operator should be moved somewhere near non-standard analysis, while the sections relating to specific properties of "consequence operators" on the set of all subsets of a set and finitary closure operators should be moved to new sections of this article. However, I'd certainly consider a statement in this article that a closure operator on the poset of the the set of all subsets of a given set is also known as a "consequence operator", if, indeed, that is correct.

Pseudo-closed sets
I added the definition of pseudo-closed sets. Note that it is indeed a correct recursive definition, although it is self-referential. For brevity, I did not include that pseudo-closed sets are essential in the definition of the canonical basis in Formal concept analysis, which in turn is crucial for the knowledge acquisition method called attribute exploration. I also did not mention that pseudo-closed sets are of recent interest in research because the complexity of finding them is not fully known. --Bernhard Ganter (talk) 09:17, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Closure operator


text:
Freya Stark

Dame Freya Madeline Stark (31 January 1893 – 9 May 1993) was a British-Italian explorer and travel writer. She wrote more than two dozen books on her travels in the Middle East and Afghanistan as well as several autobiographical works and essays. She was one of the first non-Arabs known to travel through the southern Arabian Desert in modern times.

Early life and studies
Stark was born on 31 January 1893 in Paris, where her parents were studying art. Her mother, Flora, was of English, French, German, and Polish descent. Her father, Robert, was an English painter from Devon. Stark spent much of her childhood in northern Italy, helped by the fact that Pen Browning, a friend of her father, had bought three houses in Asolo. Her maternal grandmother lived in Genoa.

The marriage of her parents was unhappy from the outset. They separated early in Stark's childhood. Stark's biographer, Jane Fletcher Geniesse—quoting Stark's cousin, Nora Stanton Barney—claimed that Stark's biological father was Obediah Dyer, "a well-to-do young man from a prominent family in New Orleans". No corroboration of this account, even by Stark, is known; she did not make any reference to it in any of her writings, including her autobiography.

For her ninth birthday, Stark received a copy of One Thousand and One Nights and became fascinated with the Orient. She was often ill while young and confined to the house, so she found an outlet in reading. She delighted in reading French, in particular Alexandre Dumas, and taught herself Latin. When she was thirteen, in an accident in a factory in Italy, her hair was caught in a machine, tearing her scalp and ripping her right ear off. She had to spend four months getting skin grafts in hospital, which left her face disfigured. For the rest of her life, she would wear hats or bonnets, often flamboyant ones, to cover her scars.

Hoping to escape her difficult life as a flower farmer in northern Italy, when she was thirty years old Stark chose to study languages in university. Her professor suggested Icelandic, but she chose to study Arabic and later, Persian. She studied at Bedford College, London and the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS), both part of the University of London.

Early travels and writings
During World War I, Stark trained as a VAD and served initially with G. M. Trevelyan's British Red Cross ambulance unit, based at the Villa Trento near Udine. Her mother had remained in Italy and taken a share in a business; her sister Vera married the co-owner. In 1926, Vera died after a miscarriage. In her writings, Stark explained that Vera was not able to live life on her own terms, and she would not do the same. Shortly afterward, she began her travels.

In November 1927, she visited Asolo for the first time in years. Later that month she boarded a ship for Beirut, where her travels in the East began. She stayed first at the home of James Elroy Flecker in Lebanon, then in Baghdad, Iraq (then a British protectorate), where she met the British high commissioner. During that trip, she secretly travelled by donkey with a Druze guide and an English woman. She kept the journey secret as Syria and Lebanon were under French control as the Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon. This was a repressive government system that did not allow travel within the region. The group travelled by night and took remote, countryside routes. However, French Army officers still caught them, thought the women to be spies, but released them three days later. After her trip, Stark wrote about the repressive French regime and the abuse inflicted on the Syrian people in an English magazine.

By 1931, she had completed three dangerous treks into the wilderness of western Iran, parts of which no Westerner had ever visited, and had located the long-fabled Valleys of the Assassins (Hashshashins). She described these explorations in The Valleys of the Assassins (1934). She received the Royal Geographical Society's Back Award in 1933.

In 1934, Stark sailed down the Red Sea to Aden to begin a new adventure. She hoped to trace the frankincense route of the Hadhramaut, the hinterland of southern Arabia. Only a handful of Western explorers had ventured into the region but never so far or so widely as she. Her goal was to reach the ancient city of Shabwa, which was rumoured to have been the capital of the Queen of Sheba. However, she fell seriously ill on the trip. After contracting measles from a child in a harem, as well as dysentery, she had to be airlifted to a British hospital in Aden. Although she never reached Shabwa, she was able to travel extensively and recount many experiences. Stark returned to the region later for additional trips. During these journeys, she encountered slavery, which caused a "moral predicament", according to a New Yorker profile. Stark reasoned that slavery seemed to decline in less religious societies, and thus she felt that slavery would decline in Arabia as it evolved. She published her account of the region in three books, The Southern Gates of Arabia: A Journey in the Hadhramaut (1936), Seen In The Hadhramaut (1938) and A Winter in Arabia (1940). For her travels and accounts, she received the Founder's Medal of the Royal Geographical Society.

World War II
In the autumn of 1939 Stark offered her services to the British Ministry of Information. Her prior experience in the Middle East was sufficient for the Ministry to send her to Yemen to spread propaganda on the British cause. Part of her duties involved showing films, despite the rulers of Yemen being strict Muslims who disapproved of any images of humans and wildlife. After working for two months in Yemen and Aden she was sent to Cairo, a posting that doubled her salary to £1,200. Following her arrival in June 1940 she set up an intimate salon where, over tea four times a week, she advocated for the British cause. Before long, Christopher Scaife who was teaching English at the King Fuad I University was sending her the odd Egyptian student who wanted to know what the British were fighting for. Stark encouraged them to bring their friends and the discussions expanded to cover not only the war but also its effects on Egypt. These discussions grew to become the basis of the Ikhwan al Hurriya (Brotherhood of Freedom) propaganda network that was aimed at persuading Arabs to support the Allies or at least remain neutral. As the brotherhood grew it divided into cells and then subdivided again, to keep numbers at no more than ten members per cell. Christopher Scaife became its president, while Stark had two assistants, Pamela Hore-Ruthven and Lulie Abu'l Huda. The brotherhood included all strata of society, and by the middle of the war, it had tens of thousands of members. The work involved Stark travelling all over Egypt and often speaking for as many as 10 hours a day. These wartime experiences were described in her Letters from Syria (1942) and East is West (1945). Following a visit to Iraq during which she was besieged in the British Embassy during an attempted coup d'état in April 1941 Stark was asked by British Ambassador Sir Kinahan Cornwallis to set up a branch of the Ikhwan al Hurriya in that country. Stark agreed and spent the next two years in Iraq dispensing British propaganda.

In February 1943, she visited Archibald Wavell and his wife in India. To assist her with the return journey Wavell arranged for her to have a car. After driving it from Delhi to Teheran, she sold it, but officials in Cairo and Aden took a dim view of her taking upon herself to dispose of government property in wartime. Stark believed that since she had been given it she could sell it.

In 1943, Stark went on an official tour of British Mandate of Palestine. She gave speeches that called for quotas on Jewish migration to Palestine, which angered the global Jewish community. However, Stark felt that she was not at all anti-Jewish; she simply felt that Arab consent should be considered before mass migration took place. These speeches are thought to be her most controversial work during WWII. In 1943, she wrote "I really can’t see that there is any kind of way of dealing with the Zionist question except by a massacre now and then... What can we do? It is the ruthless last penny that they squeeze out of you that does it... the world has chosen to massacre them at intervals, and whose fault is it?"

Post-war travel and writings
Following her marriage in 1947, she wrote nothing on travel and exploration, but published a volume of miscellaneous essays, Perseus in the Wind (1948) and three volumes of autobiography, Traveller's Prelude (1950), ''Beyond Euphrates. Autobiography 1928–1933 (1951), and The Coast of Incense. Autobiography 1933–1939'' (1953).

Following the failure of her marriage, Stark again began travelling, with her first extensive travels after the war being in Turkey, which was the basis of her books Ionia a Quest (1954), The Lycian Shore (1956), Alexander's Path (1958), and Riding to the Tigris (1959). After this, she continued her memoirs with ''Dust in the Lion's Paw. Autobiography 1939–1946 (1961), and she published a history of Rome on the Euphrates: The Story of a Frontier (1966) and another collection of essays, The Zodiac Arch'' (1968).

The last expedition was to Afghanistan in 1968, when she was 75 years old. She travelled to visit the twelfth-century Minaret of Jam. In 1970, she published The Minaret of Djam: An Excursion into Afghanistan. In her retirement at Asolo, apart from a short survey, Turkey: A Sketch of Turkish History (1971), she busied herself by putting together a new collection of essays, A Peak in Darien (1976), and preparing selections of her Letters (8 volumes, 1974–82; one volume, Over the rim of the world: selected letters, 1982), and of her travel writings, The Journey's Echo (1988).

Photographic legacy
Stark, as well as being a writer, was a prolific and accomplished photographer. Some forty-plus of her albums, containing approximately 6,000 black-and-white prints, together with some 50,000 negatives are held as the Freya Stark Photograph Collection in the archive of the Middle East Centre, St Antony’s College, Oxford. Many of the photographs were taken with the same camera, a Leica III, which she bought in 1933 and used on her travels. The collection of photographs was published in its entirety in 1999, some having previously appeared in books such as A Traveller in Time: A Photographic Journey with Freya Stark by Malise Ruthven, 1986, Passionate Nomad: The Life of Freya Stark by Jane Fletcher Geniesse, 2001 and, of course, her own books, an example being Rivers of Time: Photographs by Freya Stark published in 1982.

Smaller collections of photographs by Stark are held at the Biblioteca Berenson, Villa I Tatti, Harvard University Centre for Italian Renaissance Studies Repository, in the Harry Ransom Centre, the University of Texas, at the Special Collections of the University of New South Wales, Canberra, and in the Conway Library whose archive, of primarily architectural images, is being digitised under the wider Courtauld Connects project.

In 1934, Stark was awarded the Royal Asiatic Society’s Richard Burton Memorial Medal in recognition of her contribution to geographic exploration and travel writing and a portrait of her resides in the society’s lecture room. The society holds 65 glass slides taken by Stark.

A photograph of Freya Stark by Robert Mapplethorpe, taken in 1975, was a gift of The Robert Mapplethorpe Foundation to the J. Paul Getty Trust and the Los Angeles County Museum of Art.

Later life
She was appointed a Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire (DBE) in the 1972 New Year's Honours.

She died at Asolo on 9 May 1993, a few months after her hundredth birthday.

Personal life
In 1947, at the age of 54, she married Stewart Perowne, a British administrator, Arabist, and historian, whom she had met while working as his assistant in Aden early in World War II. Perowne was homosexual, which Stark did not know when they first married, although most of his friends did. Their marriage had many troubles, and Stark did not adjust well to being the wife of a civil servant. The couple had no children, separated in 1952, but did not divorce.

While revisiting Yemen in 1976, Stark suggested to the Secretary of the British Embassy with whom she was staying that she had never come close ‘to losing my virtue… including the nights I spent with Stewart.’ During that same trip, after decades without contact, Stark wrote to Perowne again, wishing him well.

Perowne died in 1989.

Writings

 * (1934)
 * (1936)
 * (1937)
 * Seen in the Hadhramaut (1938)
 * (1940)
 * (1942)
 * (1945), published in US as Arab Island: The Middle East, 1939–1943.
 * (1948)
 * (1950) Registration required.
 * (1951)
 * (1953) Registration required.
 * (1954)
 * (1956)
 * (1958)
 * (1959)
 * (1961)
 * (1963) foreword by Lawrence Durrell
 * (1966)
 * (1968)
 * (1969)
 * (1970)
 * (1971)
 * (8 vols., 1974–82) edited by Caroline Moorehead
 * (1976)
 * (1988) edited by Caroline Moorehead

title: Freya Stark


text:
User talk:Ronaldok

Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia! Drop us a note at New user log to introduce yourself.

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If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. You can also drop me a question on my talk page.

Happy editing, Isomorphic 09:11, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ronaldok


text:
Digital AMPS

IS-54 and IS-136 are second-generation (2G) mobile phone systems, known as Digital AMPS (D-AMPS), and most often referred to as TDMA, are a further development of the North American 1G mobile system Advanced Mobile Phone System (AMPS). It was once prevalent throughout the Americas, particularly in the United States and Canada since the first commercial network was deployed in 1993. D-AMPS is considered end-of-life, and existing networks have mostly been replaced by GSM/GPRS or CDMA2000 technologies.

The name TDMA is based on the abbreviation for time-division multiple access, a common multiple access technique which is used in most 2G standards, including GSM, as well as in IS-54 and IS-136. D-AMPS competed against GSM and systems based on code-division multiple access (CDMA).

D-AMPS uses existing AMPS channels and allows for smooth transition between digital and analog systems in the same area. Capacity was increased over the preceding analog design by dividing each 30 kHz channel pair into three time slots (hence time division) and digitally compressing the voice data, yielding three times the call capacity in a single cell. A digital system also made calls more secure in the beginning, as analogue scanners could not access digital signals. Calls were encrypted, using CMEA, which was later found to be weak.

IS-136 added a number of features to the original IS-54 specification, including text messaging, circuit switched data (CSD), and an improved compression protocol. SMS and CSD were both available as part of the GSM protocol, and IS-136 implemented them in a nearly identical fashion.

Former large IS-136 networks, including AT&T in the United States, and Rogers Wireless in Canada, have upgraded their existing IS-136 networks to GSM/GPRS. Rogers Wireless removed all 1900 MHz IS-136 in 2003, and has done the same with its 800 MHz spectrum as the equipment failed. Rogers deactivated its IS-136 network (along with AMPS) on May 31, 2007. AT&T soon followed in February 2008, shutting down both TDMA and AMPS.

Alltel, who primarily used CDMA2000 technology but acquired a TDMA network from Western Wireless, shut down its TDMA and AMPS networks in September 2008. US Cellular, which now also primarily uses CDMA2000 technology, shut down its TDMA network in February 2009.

IS-54 is the first mobile communication system which had provision for security, and the first to employ TDMA technology.

History
The evolution of mobile communication began in three different geographic regions: North America, Europe and Japan. The standards used in these regions were quite independent of each other.

The earliest mobile or wireless technologies implemented were wholly analogue, and are collectively known as 1st Generation (1G) technologies. In Japan, the 1G standards were: Nippon Telegraph and Telephone (NTT) and the high capacity version of it (Hicap). The early systems used throughout Europe were not compatible to each other, meaning the later idea of a common 'European Union' viewpoint/technological standard was absent at this time.

The various 1G standards in use in Europe included C-Netz (in Germany and Austria), Comviq (in Sweden), Nordic Mobile Telephones/450 (NMT450) and NMT900 (both in Nordic countries), NMT-F (French version of NMT900), TMA-450 (Spanish version of NMT450), Radiocom 2000 (RC2000) (in France), TACS (Total Access Communication System) (in the United Kingdom, Italy and Ireland), and TMA-900 (Spanish version of TACS). North American standards were Advanced Mobile Phone System (AMPS) and Narrow-band AMPS (N-AMPS).

Out of the 1G standards, the most successful was the AMPS system. Despite the Nordic countries' cooperation, European engineering efforts were divided among the various standards, and the Japanese standards did not get much attention. Developed by Bell Labs in the 1970s and first used commercially in the United States in 1983, AMPS operates in the 800 MHz band in the United States and is the most widely distributed analog cellular standard. (The 1900 MHz PCS band, established in 1994, is for digital operation only.) The success of AMPS kick-started the mobile age in the North America.

The market showed an increasing demand because it had higher capacity and mobility than the then-existing mobile communication standards were capable of handling. For example, the Bell Labs system in the 1970s could carry only 12 calls at a time throughout all of New York City. AMPS used Frequency Division Multiple Access (FDMA) which enabled each cell site to transmit on different frequencies, allowing many cell sites to be built near each other.

AMPS also had many disadvantages, as well. Primarily, it did not have the ability to support the ever-increasing demand for mobile communication usage. Each cell site did not have much capacity for carrying higher numbers of calls. AMPS also had a poor security system which allowed people to steal a phone's serial code to use for making illegal calls. All of these triggered the search for a more capable system.

The quest resulted in IS-54, the first American 2G standard. In March 1990, the North American cellular network incorporated the IS-54B standard, the first North American dual mode digital cellular standard. This standard won over Motorola's Narrowband AMPS or N-AMPS, an analog scheme which increased capacity, by cutting down voice channels from 30 kHz to 10 kHz. IS-54, on the other hand, increased capacity by digital means using TDMA protocols. This method separates calls by time, placing parts of individual conversations on the same frequency, one after the next. TDMA tripled call capacity.

Using IS-54, a cellular carrier could convert any of its system's analog voice channels to digital. A dual mode phone uses digital channels where available, and defaults to regular AMPS where they are not. IS-54 was backward compatible with analogue cellular and indeed co-existed on the same radio channels as AMPS. No analogue customers were left behind; they simply could not access IS-54's new features. IS-54 also supported authentication, a help in preventing fraud.

Technology specifications
IS-54 employs the same 30 kHz channel spacing and frequency bands (824-849 and 869-894 MHz) as AMPS. Capacity was increased over the preceding analog design by dividing each 30 kHz channel pair into three time slots and digitally compressing the voice data, yielding three times the call capacity in a single cell. A digital system also made calls more secure because analog scanners could not access digital signals.

The IS-54 standard specifies 84 control channels, 42 of which are shared with AMPS. To maintain compatibility with the existing AMPS cellular telephone system, the primary forward and reverse control channels in IS-54 cellular systems use the same signaling techniques and modulation scheme (binary FSK) as AMPS. An AMPS/IS-54 infrastructure can support use of either analog AMPS phones or D-AMPS phones.

The access method used for IS-54 is Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA), which was the first U.S. digital standard to be developed. It was adopted by the TIA in 1992. TDMA subdivides each of the 30 kHz AMPS channels into three full-rate TDMA channels, each of which is capable of supporting a single voice call. Later, each of these full-rate channels was further sub-divided into two half-rate channels, each of which, with the necessary coding and compression, could also support a voice call. Thus, TDMA could provide three to six times the capacity of AMPS traffic channels. TDMA was initially defined by the IS-54 standard and is now specified in the IS-13x series of specifications of the EIA/TIA.

The channel transmission bit rate for digitally modulating the carrier is 48.6 kbit/s. Each frame has six time slots of 6.67-ms duration. Each time slot carries 324 bits of information, of which 260 bits are for the 13-kbit/s full-rate traffic data. The other 64 bits are overhead; 28 of these are for synchronization, and they contain a specific bit sequence known by all receivers to establish frame alignment. Also, as with GSM, the known sequence acts as a training pattern to initialize an adaptive equalizer.

The IS-54 system has different synchronization sequences for each of the six time slots making up the frame, thereby allowing each receiver to synchronize to its own preassigned time slots. An additional 12 bits in every time slot are for the SACCH (i.e. system control information). The digital verification color code (DVCC) is the equivalent of the supervisory audio tone used in the AMPS system. There are 256 different 8-bit color codes, which are protected by a (12, 8, 3) Hamming code. Each base station has its own preassigned color code, so any incoming interfering signals from distant cells can be ignored.

The modulation scheme for IS-54 is 7C/4 differential quaternary phase shift keying (DQPSK), otherwise known as differential 7t/4 4-PSK or π/4 DQPSK. This technique allows a bit rate of 48.6 kbit/s with 30 kHz channel spacing, to give a bandwidth efficiency of 1.62 bit/s/Hz. This value is 20% better than GSM. The major disadvantage with this type of linear modulation method is the power inefficiency, which translates into a heavier hand-held portable and, even more inconvenient, a shorter time between battery recharges.

Call processing
A conversation's data bits makes up the DATA field. Six slots make up a complete IS-54 frame. DATA in slots 1 and 4, 2 and 5, and 3 and 6 make up a voice circuit. DVCC stands for digital verification color code, arcane terminology for a unique 8-bit code value assigned to each cell. G means guard time, the period between each time slot. RSVD stands for reserved. SYNC represents synchronization, a critical TDMA data field. Each slot in every frame must be synchronized against all others and a master clock for everything to work.

Time slots for the mobile-to-base direction are constructed differently from the base-to-mobile direction. They essentially carry the same information but are arranged differently. Notice that the mobile-to-base direction has a 6-bit ramp time to enable its transmitter time to get up to full power, and a 6-bit guard band during which nothing is transmitted. These 12 extra bits in the base-to-mobile direction are reserved for future use.

Once a call comes in the mobile switches to a different pair of frequencies; a voice radio channel which the system carrier has made analog or digital. This pair carries the call. If an IS-54 signal is detected it gets assigned a digital traffic channel if one is available. The fast associated channel or FACCH performs handoffs during the call, with no need for the mobile to go back to the control channel. In case of high noise, FACCH embedded within the digital traffic channel overrides the voice payload, degrading speech quality to convey control information. The purpose is to maintain connectivity. The slow associated control channel or SACCH does not perform handoffs but conveys things like signal strength information to the base station.

The IS-54 speech coder uses the technique called vector sum excited linear prediction (VSELP) coding. This is a special type of speech coder within a large class known as code-excited linear prediction (CELP) coders. The speech coding rate of 7.95 kbit/s achieves a reconstructed speech quality similar to that of the analog AMPS system using frequency modulation. The 7.95-kbit/s signal is then passed through a channel coder that loads the bit rate up to 13 kbit/s. The new half-rate coding standard reduces the overall bit rate for each call to 6.5 kbit/s, and should provide comparable quality to the 13-kbit/s rate. This half-rate gives a channel capacity six times that of analog AMPS.

System example
The discussion of a communication system will not be complete without the explanation of a system example. A dual-mode cellular phone as specified by the IS-54 standard is explained. A dual-mode phone is capable of operating in an analog-only cell or a dual-mode cell. Both the transmitter and the receiver support both analog FM and digital time-division multiple access (TDMA) schemes. Digital transmission is preferred, so when a cellular system has digital capability, the mobile unit is assigned a digital channel first. If no digital channels are available, the cellular system will assign an analog channel. The transmitter converts the audio signal to a radio frequency (RF), and the receiver converts an RF signal to an audio signal. The antenna focuses and converts RF energy for reception and transmission into free space. The control panel serves as an input/output mechanism for the end user; it supports a keypad, a display, a microphone, and a speaker. The coordinator synchronizes the transmission and receives functions of the mobile unit. A dual-mode cellular phone consists of the following:

 * Transmitter
 * Antenna assembly
 * Receiver
 * Control panel
 * Coordinator

Successor technologies
By 1993 American cellular was again running out of capacity, despite a wide movement to IS-54. The American cellular business continued booming. Subscribers grew from one and a half million customers in 1988 to more than thirteen million subscribers in 1993. Room existed for other technologies to cater to the growing market. The technologies that followed IS-54 stuck to the digital backbone laid down by it.

IS-136
A pragmatic effort was launched to improve IS-54 that eventually added an extra channel to the IS-54 hybrid design. Unlike IS-54, IS-136 utilizes time-division multiplexing for both voice and control channel transmissions. Digital control channel allows residential and in-building coverage, dramatically increased battery standby time, several messaging applications, over the air activation and expanded data applications. IS-136 systems needed to support millions of AMPS phones, most of which were designed and manufactured before IS-54 and IS-136 were considered. IS-136 added a number of features to the original IS-54 specification, including text messaging, circuit switched data (CSD), and an improved compression protocol. IS-136 TDMA traffic channels use π/4-DQPSK modulation at a 24.3-kilobaud channel rate and gives an effective 48.6 kbit/s data rate across the six time slots comprising one frame in the 30 kHz channel.

Sunset for D-AMPS in the US and Canada
AT&T Mobility, the largest US carrier to support D-AMPS (which it refers to as "TDMA"), had turned down its existing network in order to release the spectrum to its GSM and UMTS platforms in 19 wireless markets, which started on May 30, 2007, with other areas that followed in June and July. The TDMA network in these markets operated on the 1900 MHz frequency and did not coexist with an AMPS network. Service on the remaining 850 MHz TDMA markets was discontinued along with AMPS service on February 18, 2008, except for in areas where service was provided by Dobson Communications. The Dobson TDMA and AMPS network was shut down March 1, 2008.

On May 31, 2007, Rogers Wireless decommissioned its D-AMPS and AMPS networks and moved the remaining customers on these older networks onto its GSM network.

Alltel completed their shutdown of their D-AMPS and AMPS networks in September 2008. The last carrier in the United States to operate a D-AMPS network was U.S. Cellular, who shut down its D-AMPS network on February 10, 2009.

title: Digital AMPS


text:
Talk:Glückel of Hameln

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Trematetremate.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Suggest Renaming
I would suggest that the article be renamed to reflect Glikl's actual name according and its Yiddish transliteration, thus: Glikl Bas Leib and not Gluckel of Hameln. The latter is an anachronism (see discussions in Davis and Turniansky). Glikl herself was born in Hamburg, not Hameln, which was the birthplace of her husband.

 * I agree with the above suggestion made 20 October 2012. Mcljlm (talk) 02:16, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Transwiki
You wrote: "trans from hebrew wikipedia". Please ad transwikireferences here and there. Mikkalai 09:19, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

References, discrepancies
A remark in the history says that the original article was translated from the Hebrew Wikipedia, but gives no indication of what its references might be (there seem to be none there). Jmabel | Talk 06:22, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I was wondering about the (rather precise) birth and death dates. Sol Liptzin [Liptzin, 1972, 14] gives 1645–1724: that is, he doesn't even agree on the years, let alone the exact dates. Is there a specific source for the dates given in the article?
 * Liptzin has her living mainly in Hamburg. According to him, she married a Jew of Hamelin, but lived there only briefly.
 * Liptzin mentions quite a bit else, which I will add to the article on his authority, but since these points flat-out contradict what is already there, I thought I'd give someone an opportunity to cite sources before overriding anything.

 * Now we have Yet another set of conflicting, still unsourced dates. - Jmabel | Talk

Another Translation Exists.
While the Marvin Lowenthal translation was well-intentioned and contributed to the diary's acclaim, the Beth-Zion Abrahams version provides a much clearer window into her life and her writings. Abrahams did not edit out Glickl's quotations of religious stories or tracts and left in her oft-repeated blessings that Lowenthal and other male scholars found "somewhat tiresome." Some feminist scholars see Glikl's theologizing as a particularly female form of midrash. This connection is impossible to see in Lowenthal's terse and rather dry translation of the diary. Lowenthal saw the diary as useful in a historical sense, while Abrahams sought to illuminate the dynamic and lively character of the well-traveled and intensely religious woman who sat down to write a book ostensibly for her children and their children, but also for herself. (anon 12 June 2005)
 * Please, feel more than free to add a bibliographical reference. Also, if you can cite someone in an article in some citable place who has this praise for Abrahams' version over Lowenthal's, please cite that too. These would be good additions to the article. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:06, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

Theres a paper by Dorothy Bilick which discusses just that. Am adding a reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.30.192 (talk) 19:51, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Reference and citation, other tips
Excellent work on the article so far, but I have some Wikipedia advice for you on references.

There are several different ways that different editors build their reference sections. Yours is fairly average, but the problem is that you repeatedly build reference for the same book for a different page, or sometimes the same page. There are some quick and pretty cool fixes for this. First, there are named citations, which are references that can be used numerous times and with a small, easy to type tag such as, followed by the rest of the citation, to create it. You can read more about this here, but here's an example of my own work using this (go ahead and look at the source code, if you're not already editing in source, to see the tags at work).

The next is just and easy, and absolutely great for books for other frequently-cited works - the Harvard citation template. Building a section at the bottom of the article to contain your references, you can then tag them with |ref=harv to power sfn citations, which will link to the referenced work in your reference section. Joaquina Cabrera is an article where I personally have done this.

What all this will do is condense your citations section into neat little tags like "von Hamelin 1977, p. 131" (or however you want them to appear, thanks to Template:SfnRef), which will link to The memoirs of Glückel of Hameln. This form of citation is particularly handy when you are using a lot of books, as here, so that a reader can quickly easily trace a reference and pursue it themselves if they wish. Not to mention, this is also a much tidier of citation building.

I mentioned in the title here "other tips," but really all I have to offer here is to make sure your article(s) are well-illustrated. This is a requirement of higher-ranked articles, like Josephine Butler, because they break up the walls of text, make the page more interesting to look at, and can give you an opportunity to slip in some factoids that might not fit into your existing prose for one reason or another. So, other than pictures, never be afraid to experiment with your prose and code, and make full use of Wiki resources available to you (not that I need to tell you that, as you posted an assessment request here - you are the first to have done so, in fact!).

Happy editing! – Vami _IV✠  06:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for this excellent feedback, . I am a new WikiEditor, so a tip like this is extremely helpful. Cheers! Trematetremate (talk) 22:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch
The article states that Rabbi Samson Hirsch was a descendent of Gluckel. It seems that he was actually descended from Gluckel's sister-in-law "Jenté Sara Miriam Gans, Behrends-Cohen (Goldschmidt-Hameln)" when tracing his lineage on geni.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.182.71.24 (talk) 13:53, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Glückel of Hameln


text:
Talk:McDull

Untitled
You should remove all the copyrighted images immediately.

Hi all~
Dear all, I am one of the student of YJMS0001, Jim. Hi all~ Nice to work with you guys. I think we have given quite a lot of information about McDull and McMug already. But the first thing we need to do is to rearrange the page. Do you think so?

Origin of the names
In the movie about McDull, a bowl-like container (dull 兜 in Cantonese) flew through the sky like an UFO and landed next to McDull's birth bed. I assume McDull is named after the container. The use of Mc in the name probably is based on the illustrator Alice Mak's family name and then Westernized after McDonald's restaurant. McMug probably is based on another container, a mug (嘜 in Cantonese). While dull is the English transliteration of the Cantonese word 兜, 嘜 is the Cantonese transliteration of the English word "mug". Any confirmation on the origin of these names? Kowloonese 00:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

麥 IS the 麥 from McDonald's chinese characters: 麥當勞.

Help with official name
I'm writing a section on RTHKs "春 田 花 花 中 華 博 物 館" does anyone have available the English title used in Hong Kong for this series. (I can make a literal translation i.e. Springfield Floral Chinese Museum but I would prefer to use the official English name. And does anyone have the name of mc Dull's nursery in English. Koonan the almost civilised 01:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Found the name at TVB europes English site, still need the name of Mc Dull's nursery school though.Koonan the almost civilised 01:15, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The Off-Site Links Are Broken
The links to the educational McDull cartoons are broken. I would be interested in seeing them. Are they subtitled or dubbed? Pittsburgh Poet (talk) 13:09, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:McDull


text:
Yahoo Serious

Yahoo Serious (born Greg Pead; 27 July 1953) is an Australian film actor, director, and score composer. His films include the comedy films Young Einstein (1988), Reckless Kelly (1993), and Mr. Accident (2000). Serious writes, directs, produces, stars in, and has composed the scores for his movies.

Early life
Serious, born Greg Gomez Pead, was born on 27 July 1953 in Cardiff, New South Wales. He attended Glendale East Public School and Cardiff High School, then worked as a tyre fitter to pay for his tuition at the National Art School in Sydney, but was expelled.

Career
After being expelled from art school, Serious co-wrote, co-produced, edited and directed at age 21 his first film, Coaltown, "with the assistance of the Australian Film Institute". Released in 1977, Coaltown explores the social and political history of coal mining.

In 1988, Serious co-wrote, produced, directed, and played the title role in Young Einstein as a young apple farmer in Tasmania who derives the formula E=mc² while trying to discover a means of creating beer bubbles, splitting the beer atom in the process. After leaving Tasmania for Sydney on the mainland to patent his discovery, he goes on to develop rock music and surfing, romances Marie Curie, and saves Paris from an atomic bomb. The film's popularity propelled Serious to stardom which saw him appear on the cover of TIME magazine and the Australian edition of Mad magazine, and even get his own primetime slot on MTV. The movie was a success in Australia but a critical and commercial flop upon receiving a wide release in the United States.

In 1993, Serious released his next film, Reckless Kelly, a satire about a modern descendant of the notorious Australian bank robber Ned Kelly who also becomes a movie star in Hollywood. While Reckless Kelly was a hit in Australia, it failed outside of the country and ended Serious's bid for mainstream international popularity. In 2000, Serious released his third film, Mr. Accident, about the most accident-prone man in the world. Like Reckless Kelly, the film was not a commercial success outside Australia.

Serious is a director of the Kokoda Track Foundation, a humanitarian organisation focused on Papua New Guinea.

In 2019, in a rare Q&A session at Sydney's Hayden Orpheum Picture Palace, Serious stated in response to a question about what he had been doing recently, “I have been writing and I hope to continue to make some more movies.”

Honours and awards
Serious received an honorary doctorate from the University of Newcastle in 1996.

Serious was a guest celebrity for the opening of the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

Personal life
Shortly after the production of Young Einstein, Serious married Lulu Pinkus. Their relationship ended in 2007.

In July 2020, Serious was evicted from his Sydney rental property and ordered to pay $15,000 in rent arrears to the landlords. Serious stated that he was unable to pay due to the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, but was unable to substantiate this claim.

Lawsuit against Yahoo!
In August 2000, Yahoo Serious sued the search engine Yahoo! for trademark infringement. The case was thrown out because Serious could not prove that he sells products or services under the name "Yahoo" and therefore could not prove that he suffered harm or confusion due to the search engine.

Filmography

 * Young Einstein (1988) – Actor, director, writer and producer
 * Reckless Kelly (1993) – Actor, director, writer and producer
 * Mr. Accident (2000) – Actor, director, writer and producer

As himself

 * Cinema 3 – (1990) – TV series, 1 episode
 * Waltzing Matilda: The Song That Shaped a Nation (1995) – Documentary
 * In the Cannes (2007) – Short documentary film

title: Yahoo Serious


text:
Wudang Mountains

The Wudang Mountains are a mountain range in the northwestern part of Hubei, China. They are home to a famous complex of Taoist temples and monasteries associated with the Lord of the North, Xuantian Shangdi. The Wudang Mountains are renowned for the practice of tai chi and Taoism as the Taoist counterpart to the Shaolin Monastery, which is affiliated with Chan Buddhism. The Wudang Mountains are one of the "Four Sacred Mountains of Taoism" in China, an important destination for Taoist pilgrimages. The monasteries such as the Wudang Garden were made a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1994 because of their religious significance and architectural achievement.

Geography
On Chinese maps, the name "Wudangshan" is applied both to the entire mountain range (which runs east-west along the southern edge of the Han River, crossing several county-level divisions of Shiyan), and to the group of peaks located within  Wudangshan subdistrict of Danjiangkou, Shiyan. It is the latter specific area which is known as a Taoist center.

Modern maps show the elevation of the highest of the peaks in the Wudang Shan "proper" as 1612 meters; however, the entire Wudangshan range has somewhat higher elevations elsewhere.

Some consider the Wudang Mountains to be a "branch" of the Daba Mountains range, which is a major mountain system in western Hubei, Shaanxi, Chongqing and Sichuan.

History
For centuries, the mountains of Wudang have been known as an important center of Taoism, especially famous for its Taoist versions of martial arts or tai chi. The first sacred site—the Five Dragons Temple—was constructed at the behest of Emperor Taizong of Tang. Further structures were added during the Song and Yuan dynasties, while the largest complex on the mountain was built during the Ming dynasty (14th–17th centuries) as the Yongle Emperor claimed to enjoy the protection of the god Beidi or Xuantian Shangdi. During the Ming Dynasty, 9 palaces, 9 monasteries, 36 nunneries and 72 temples were located at the site. Temples regularly had to be rebuilt, and not all survived; the oldest existing structures are the Golden Hall and the Ancient Bronze Shrine, made in 1307. Other noted structures include Nanyang Palace (built in 1285–1310 and extended in 1312), the stone-walled Forbidden City of the Taihe Palace at the peak (built in 1419), and the Purple Cloud Temple (built in 1119–1126, rebuilt in 1413 and extended in 1803–1820). Today, 53 ancient buildings still survive.

On January 19, 2003, the 600-year-old Yuzhengong Palace at the Wudang Mountains burned down after accidentally being set on fire by an employee of a martial arts school. A fire broke out in the hall, reducing the three rooms that covered 200 square meters to ashes. A gold-plated statue of Zhang Sanfeng, which was usually housed in Yuzhengong, was moved to another building just before the fire, and so escaped destruction in the inferno.

Association with martial arts
At the first national martial arts tournament organized by the Central Guoshu Institute in 1928, participants were separated into practitioners of Shaolin and Wudang styles. Styles considered to belong to the latter group—called Wudangquan—are those with a strong element of Taoist neidan exercises. Typical examples of Wudangquan are tai chi, xingyiquan, Bajiquan and baguazhang. According to legend, tai chi was created by the Taoist hermit sage Zhang Sanfeng, who lived in the Wudang mountains.

Wudangquan has been partly reformed to fit the PRC sport and health promotion program. The third biannual Traditional Wushu Festival was held in the Wudang Mountains from October 28 to November 2, 2008.

title: Wudang Mountains


text:
Naikaku Sōri Daijin Kantei

The Naikaku Sōri Daijin Kantei (内閣総理大臣官邸) or Prime Minister's Office is the official workplace of the Prime Minister of Japan. It is commonly referred to as Shushō Kantei (首相官邸), or simply Kantei (官邸). Unlike many other famous offices or palaces of heads of states, such as the Kremlin in Russia or the White House in the United States, the Japanese Prime Minister's Office has no nickname. Naikaku Sōri Daijin Kantei literally translates to "Prime Minister's Office" in English.

Located at 2-3-1 Nagata-chō, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100–8968, it is diagonally adjacent to the National Diet Building. The term Kantei is used as a metonym for the office of the Prime Minister of Japan and for the Prime Minister's advisors and administration in general.

In addition to being the principal office of the Prime Minister, the building also serves as the principal office of the Chief Cabinet Secretary and their Deputy, the location of Cabinet meetings, and is also the location of a national crisis management center.

Usage
The 1st floor contains a press conference room where the Prime Minister and the Chief Cabinet Secretary hold press conferences. On the 4th floor there is a room where the Cabinet holds meetings, summits, etc. The 5th floor has the Prime Minister's Office, their Reception Room, the Chief Cabinet Secretary's office and reception room.

Current Office
A new five-storied office building was built in 2002, with 2.5 times the floor space. Installed with solar panels and a rainwater storage system, the new building has been designed to minimize environmental impact. The new residence went into service in April 2002

In an April 2015 incident, a Phantom 2 drone carrying traces of radiation was found on the roof of the PM's office.

Previous Office
The former office building is now known as the Naikaku Sōri Daijin Kōtei (内閣総理大臣公邸), the Prime Minister's personal residential quarters.

With the evolution of a national parliament after the Meiji Restoration and the establishment of the post of "Prime Minister of Japan" in 1885, the need for an official prime ministerial residence was felt. On the encouragement of Prime Minister Tanaka Giichi, the first residence was completed on 18 March 1929. It incorporates architectural styles such as Art Deco and expressionist architecture which became popular from the late Taishō period to the early Shōwa period. It was heavily influenced by the architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright, in particular his design for the second Tokyo Imperial Hotel. It is a two-storied mansion designed by Muraji Shimomoto, of the Ministry of the Treasury (now Ministry of Finance). Prime Minister Tanaka is said to have exclaimed, "This is just like a café, isn't it?", upon seeing the building.

By the 1990s, the old 5200 sqm building was deemed cramped and insufficient. It underwent seismic retrofitting and internal renovation.

title: Naikaku Sōri Daijin Kantei


text: Template:Nordland

title: Template:Nordland


text:
Calligra Sheets

Calligra Sheets (formerly KSpread and Calligra Tables) is a free software spreadsheet application that is part of Calligra Suite, an integrated graphic art and office suite developed by KDE.

Among Sheets’ features are multiple sheets per document, assorted formatting possibilities, support for more than 300 built-in functions, templates, chart, spell-check, hyperlinks, data sorting and scripting with Python, Ruby and JavaScript.

Sheets’ native file format has been OpenDocument since version two and previously used its own XML format, compressed with ZIP. Sheets also has the ability to import several spreadsheet formats, including XLS (Microsoft Excel), Applix Spreadsheet, Quattro Pro, CSV, dBase, Gnumeric, SXC (OpenOffice.org XML), Kexi and TXT. It supports export of OpenDocument Spreadsheet, SXC, Tables document, CSV, HTML, Gnumeric, TeX and TXT. Sheets does not support export of XLS.

KChart
KChart is the charting tool of Calligra Suite.

The plug-in is relatively simple compared to other office applications such as OpenOffice, being designed for small datasets, and using only the most common 5–6 types of chart (histograms, pie charts, line charts, etc.)

title: Calligra Sheets


text:
Human chain (politics)

A human chain is a form of demonstration in which people link arms or hands as a show of political solidarity.

The chains can involve thousands of people, with the world record being claimed in 2020 by Bihar, India, which was estimated to include 51.7 million people across 18000 km, to support the government's efforts towards environment conservation and eradication of social evils.

title: Human chain (politics)


text:
Red goshawk

The red goshawk (Erythrotriorchis radiatus) is probably the rarest Australian bird of prey. It is found mainly in the savanna woodlands of northern Australia, particularly near watercourses. It takes a broad range of live prey, mostly birds.

Taxonomy
The red goshawk was first described by the English ornithologist John Latham in 1801 under the binomial name Falco radiatus.

The species used to be regarded as a very large member of the goshawk subfamily, Accipitrinae, but it is now believed that the resemblance to these other birds is convergent. Experts now group the red goshawk with the superficially dissimilar black-breasted buzzard Hamirostra melanosternon and square-tailed kite Lophoictinia isura as one of the Australasian old endemic raptors. It is believed that the ancestors of these birds, possibly together with a handful of species from South-east Asia and Africa, occupied Gondwana and over millions of years have diverged into their current forms.

Gene sequencing studies have found a relationship between Hamirostra and Lophoictinia, however samples had not been obtained from Erythrotriorchis.

Description
Plumage is generally rufous; on the head streaked with black and white, having more white on the face and throat; on the upper surfaces (body and upperwings) marked with black. Flight feathers and tail are barred grey, dark above and light below. Underside (belly and underwing coverts) are rufous with slight black ticking. The female has a paler belly than the male. Juveniles (first year) have less streaking on the head.

Adults have yellow irides (brown to yellow in the male); juveniles brown. The cere and skin around the eye vary from pale-blue in the juvenile through pale blue-grey to pale-grey in the adult. Adults' legs and feet are yellow; juveniles are pale grey, cream, or pale yellow.

Wings are long, broad and fingered at the tips. Its long wings are unlike the short wings of the Accipiter goshawks. Its tail is long and broad; square-tipped and about half its total length. It has a robust bill, slight brow ridge, and very heavy feet with bare tarsi having scutellate scale pattern.

Pattern of direct flight is described as "sometimes leisurely, rather heavy and crow-like, with sustained flapping". Pursuit is "powerful and energetic with deep, fluid wing beats, like a fast-flying Brown Falcon". It soars with wings raised in a slight dihedral, almost flat; glides with wings flat or slightly bowed; and sometimes stoops with closed wings.

Size is 45–60 cm long, with 110–135 cm wingspan. Males weigh 635 g, females 1100–1400 g. The female is similar in size to a whistling kite, and the male to a female brown falcon.

Distribution and habitat
Sites identified by BirdLife International as being important for red goshawk conservation are Lilyvale in Far North Queensland, Kakadu Savanna and the Tiwi Islands in the Northern Territory, and Mornington Sanctuary in the Kimberley region of Western Australia.

Breeding
The nest is built in an exposed fork of a tall emergent tree. It is a stick platform lined with green leaves, 60–120 cm across and 30–50 cm deep.

The egg-laying season is from May to October in the tropical north, and August to October in the east. Incubation takes 40 days, the nestling period 51–53 days, and juveniles remain dependent for 2–3 months.

Diet
Red goshawks eat mostly birds, especially parrots and pigeons; rarely they also prey on mammals, reptiles, and large insects.

Early and late in the day, they hunt from concealed perches in the trees. In the middle of the day, they use long transects, quartering through or above the canopy, or search from a high soaring position. They attack by a stealthy glide, direct chase, or may stoop from a height.

Status
The red goshawk is listed nationally as endangered under the federal Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 EPBC and is listed as endangered in Queensland and New South Wales and as vulnerable in the Northern Territory and Western Australia. It is also listed under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora CITES.

The species is sparsely dispersed throughout its range across Australia but recent significant declines have been cause for concern. The main threats and causes of declines in eastern Australia have been attributed to clearing of forests and woodlands for agriculture which leads to degradation of remaining habitat, reduced available prey and reduction in suitable nesting sites.

The protection of remaining intact habitat and the recovery of suitable habitat through rehabilitation through regulation on land clearing is an important conservation management tool for their survival.

title: Red goshawk


text:
Shanghai (disambiguation)

Shanghai is a city in China.

Shanghai may also refer to:

China

 * Shanghai Subdistrict, a subdistrict of Fuzhou, Fujian
 * Shanghai County, a former county, fully absorbed by Minhang District, Shanghai in 1992
 * Shanghai International Settlement, China (1842 to 1943)

United States

 * Shanghai City, Illinois, an unincorporated community
 * Shanghai, Virginia, an unincorporated community
 * Shanghai, West Virginia, an unincorporated community
 * Shanghai Lake, Le Sueur County, Minnesota

In film

 * Shanghai (1935 film), starring Loretta Young
 * Shanghai (2010 film), starring John Cusack and Gong Li
 * Shanghai (2012 film), an Indian film directed by Dibakar Banerjee and starring Abhay Deol and Emraan Hashmi

Games

 * Shanghai (video game), a computerized version of mahjong solitaire published in 1986
 * Shanghai Rum, a card game based on gin rummy
 * Shanghai, the combination 20, double 20 and treble 20 (scoring a total of 120), in darts
 * Shanghai Solitaire, an alternative name for mahjong solitaire

Music

 * (Why Did I Tell You I Was Going To) Shanghai, a 1951 song by Doris Day
 * "Shanghai", a song by King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard from Butterfly 3000
 * "Shanghai", a song off the deluxe version of The Pink Print by Nicki Minaj
 * Shanghai Nobody, a stage name of Siobhán Emma Donaghy (born 1984), Irish-English singer-songwriter

Transportation

 * Shanghai Y-10, a cancelled commercial passenger jet
 * Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation, a former name of SAIC Motor

People

 * James Kelly (crimper) (fl. early 1870s), better known as "Shanghai" Kelly, an American crimp who kidnapped men for ships' crews
 * Abel Head "Shanghai" Pierce (1834–1900), Texas rancher

Other uses

 * Shanghai (photograph), a 2000 photograph by Andreas Gursky
 * Shanghai (processor), an AMD 45nm computer processor of the AMD_K10 family
 * 2197 Shanghai, an asteroid named after the city
 * Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, an intergovernmental security organization
 * Shanghaiing, the practice of conscripting men as sailors by coercive techniques
 * Lumpiang shanghai, a variety of lumpia pastries
 * Shanghai, an alternative name for the slingshot

title: Shanghai (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Brentwood, Los Angeles

Map request
Someone should put a map of Brentwood, so we get an idea of where it is in relationship to other areas of Los Angeles 4.142.45.222 23:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)eric

With respect to citations for Brent-Air Pharmacy, I'm afraid that I am not able to provide these but I can certainly give a broad overview - OJ Simpson and Marilyn Monroe are two. Others would probably mean law-suits! If I ever find legit citations, I will put them in. Cheers!

How could you not mention Barrington Street? Thanks - Sparky 09:47, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Indeed! Although I'm glad it was properly mentioned as Barrington Avenue! (I should know -- I live on Barrington!) --Diberri | Talk 20:24, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

"one of the most important districts of the Westside." Don't mean to hurt any feelings, but I can think of 6 more important westside districts: Westwood, West LA, Sawtelle, Century City, and maybe Venice. And depending on your eastern boundary, maybe Fairfax too. 69.235.195.21 16:44, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * You're right. Every district is important to the people who live there - we shouldn't presume to judge.-Willmcw 17:12, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Lewinsky
Didn't Monica Lewinsky's parents live in Brentwood when she was growing up? -Willmcw 00:01, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * Her father did; as far as I know, he still does. I am not sure how much time she spent there, though, which is the only thing worth mentioning. This information should be available in back issues of the Los Angeles Times, if anybody has access. Uucp 10:14, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, her dad still lives in Brentwood. jengod 18:51, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Spouses
Do we really need to mention all those non-famous spouses in the "famous residents" section? Uucp 10:14, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 06:17, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Sepulveda Blvd
According to the Sepulveda Blvd article, it crosses through Brentwood. Wouldn't it count as a major thoroughfare, between Mullholland and the point where it crosses the 405, for Brentwood. (Otherwise it's too far east to be considered Brentwood.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.89.42 (talk) 03:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

VA dumping ground
Here are sources about the VA dumping ground:
 * http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/environment/toxic-brentwood-graves-va-clea/
 * http://www.laweekly.com/2009-12-10/news/brentwood-39-s-toxic-grave/

Both courtesy of the LA Weekly WhisperToMe (talk) 22:00, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Notable residents

 * Mark Harmon - American actor, doesn't he live in Brentwood? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.53.217.237 (talk) 08:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Undeliverable mail to O. J. Simpson
Do you remember hearing that in the wake of the murders (of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman), some people sent mail to O. J. Simpson in Brentwood, and it ended up going to the Brentwood post office in northern California and was undeliverable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 19:31, 5 March 2012 (UTC) 4
 * No, I don't remember that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.153.218 (talk) 21:08, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Edwardses
We need a good, WP:Reliable source, indicating these two people are truly WP:Notable and are not just being propped up by a commercial website; in this case, Bravo TV. Brentwood is full of almost-Notable people. Listing all these people would be a disservice to the reader. If you disagree, tell why here, or, better, find a Reliable source that attests to their Notability and use it in the article. Thank you. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 12:28, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't quite get how you can claim they aren't notable and the ref isn't good enough when there is people featured on the list with TMZ as a ref or no ref at all. Anways here's a few more articles than mention that Donnie is an NFL star, Kathryn is a reality star and they both reside in Brentwood    Kelege (talk) 13:49, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That's all we need: Sources. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 06:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

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Text I removed from the main ariicle.
'''Whether one event from one Olympics was or was not run in this club or that does not logically require 50 lines in a short article about a city. At best, present the correct information as a single sentence. But it really seems like trivia.'''

The Sunset Fields Golf Club, known as the Brentwood Country Club since 1941, hosted the running part of the modern pentathlon event in the 1932 Summer Olympics.

The preceding statement is incorrect and caused by a confusion of Olympic events & locations. Brentwood Country Club was known as Brentwood Country Club at the time of the 1932 Los Angeles Olympics. It appears as Brentwood Country Club at 590 Burlingame Avenue in the Los Angeles City Directory for 1933, which would have been compiled in 1932. A 1927 Los Angeles Times article describes the beginning of construction on Sunset Fields Golf Course near Crenshaw Boulevard between Vernon Avenue and Santa Barbara Avenue (now Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard). The book, Leimert Park, states, "The Sunset Fields Golf Course in Leimert Park was also the location of another official Olympic venue, the running portion of the modern pentathlon. ... The close proximity of the Olympic games to the neighboring community of Leimert Park brought much attention to the development." The Xth Olympiad: Los Angeles, 1932 - Official Report says, "The Cross Country Run of the Modern Pentathlon was held at 9:00 A.M. on the course of Sunset Fields Golf Club of Los Angeles. The distance was 4000 metres, slightly less than two-thirds of which was laid on the fairways of the golf course, and over and through several of the natural washes and gullies to be found on the course. The remainder involved the climbing of a very steep hill, to the level of the Olympic Village, thence down a narrow draw by a winding path and across a wide ditch to the Golf Club property again. The start and finish were a short distance in front of the clubhouse." A map of the various Olympic venues and locations in the same report shows the Olympic Village as being located southwest of the intersection of Vernon Avenue and Crenshaw Boulevard, which lies exactly where Sunset Fields Golf Course was (an area now occupied by the Baldwin Hills Crenshaw Plaza).

The confusion may have arisen because part of the route of the Equestrian Cross Country portion of Modern Pentathlon may have crossed Brentwood Country Club. This event used the route of Phase D of the Cross Country portion of the Equestrian Three-Day Event competition. Riviera Country Club in Bel-Air, east of Brentwood, served as the headquarters of all Olympic Equestrian Events, A map in the Official Report shows the equestrian course briefly following Burlingame Avenue in Brentwood. As in 1932, the address of Brentwood Country Club of Los Angeles is still 590 South Burlingame Avenue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZeroXero (talk • contribs) 20:31, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Brentwood, Los Angeles