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Martin Peters

Martin Stanford Peters (8 November 1943 – 21 December 2019) was an English footballer and manager. As a member of the England team which won the 1966 FIFA World Cup, he scored the second of England's four goals in the final against West Germany. He also played in the 1970 FIFA World Cup. Born in Plaistow, Essex, he played club football for West Ham United, Tottenham Hotspur, Norwich City and Sheffield United. He briefly managed Sheffield United before retiring from professional football in 1981.

Peters was known as "the complete midfielder" as he could pass the ball well with either foot, was good in the air and difficult to mark because of his movement. A free kick specialist, he was described by England manager Sir Alf Ramsey, after a game against Scotland in 1968, as being "ten years ahead of his time". His versatility was such that while he was at West Ham he played in every position in the team, including goalkeeper in his third game, replacing an injured Brian Rhodes. With his transfer from West Ham United to Tottenham Hotspur in 1970, he became Britain's first £200,000 footballer.

Early years
Peters was born in Egham Road, off Beckton Road in Plaistow, Essex, on Monday 8 November 1943 during the Second World War. His father, William Peters, was a Thames Lighterman. Shortly after Peters' birth, he was evacuated with his mother to Shropshire to avoid the bombing of London by the Luftwaffe. When he was seven his family moved to Dagenham, where he attended the local Fanshawe School. In schoolboy football, he played mostly as a centre-half but often as a full-back. He came to the attention of Fulham, Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur and Chelsea. Peters did not support any club as a schoolboy and favoured joining Chelsea as his friend Terry Venables, whom he had met playing for Dagenham Schoolboys, had signed for Chelsea. After playing for England schoolboys he was scouted by Wally St Pier for West Ham United. In the summer of 1959 he was signed as a 15-year-old apprentice by West Ham.

West Ham United
Peters signed his first professional contract in November 1960. His first manager Ted Fenton left the club in 1961, to be replaced by Ron Greenwood. He was a major influence on Peters and his progress as a young footballer. In his first years with West Ham, Peters had played in both defensive and midfield positions before Fenton had encouraged him to play as a right-half. He made his debut on Good Friday 1962 in a 4–1 home win against Cardiff City. He scored his first goal for West Ham in a 6–1 win at Manchester City on 8 September 1962. Also in 1962, Peters played in goal for West Ham in a game against Cardiff after regular goalkeeper, Brian Rhodes had been injured.

Peters played only five games in his first season with West Ham. Although he played 32 league games in the 1963–64 season, he played no part in their FA Cup run and was not selected for the FA Cup final of 1964 at Wembley, in which they beat Preston North End 3–2. The following year, however, he established himself as a first team regular and was victorious at Wembley when West Ham won the European Cup Winners Cup with victory over 1860 Munich. He was usually partnered in midfield by Eddie Bovington and Ronnie Boyce.

Peters began to impose himself on West Ham's game, and another chance for silverware came in 1966 when West Ham reached the League Cup final. The occasion was still over two-legs with each of the finalists hosting a leg (though this changed to a one-off final at Wembley a year later), and Peters played in both matches. He scored in the second game but opponents West Bromwich Albion emerged as 5–3 winners on aggregate. The 1968–69 season saw Peters' only hat-trick for West Ham, in a 4–0 home defeat of West Bromwich Albion. That was also his most prolific season: 24 goals came for him from 48 games.

Tottenham Hotspur
Feeling he was in the shadows of Bobby Moore and Geoff Hurst, Peters sought a new challenge. In March 1970, West Ham received a record-breaking £200,000 (£150,000 cash) for Peters from Tottenham Hotspur and he moved to White Hart Lane, with Spurs and England striker Jimmy Greaves (valued at £50,000) going the other way. On 21 March 1970, Peters scored on his Spurs debut against Coventry City. He won his first domestic winners' medal in 1971 when Spurs beat Aston Villa 2–0 in the League Cup final, and his second European triumph when Spurs beat Wolverhampton Wanderers 3–2 on aggregate to win the 1972 UEFA Cup final. At the time, this was the only all-English European final until Manchester United beat Chelsea in the 2008 UEFA Champions League final. When Alan Mullery left for Fulham in 1972, Bill Nicholson made Martin club captain. In the 1973 Football League Cup final, Peters was the winning skipper as they defeated Norwich City 1–0. He completed one more full season with Spurs, who lost the 1974 UEFA Cup final to Feyenoord on aggregate. He then moved in March 1975 to Norwich City – managed by his former West Ham teammate John Bond – for a fee of £40,000. In total Peters played 260 times in all competitions, scoring 76 goals.

Norwich City
Peters, then aged 31, made his debut appearance for Norwich on 15 March 1975 in a 1–1 away draw with Manchester United. He helped newly promoted Norwich establish themselves in the First Division, making more than 200 appearances, and earning a testimonial against an all-star team which included most of the 1966 World Cup-winning England XI. He was voted Norwich City F.C. Player of the Season two years running, in 1976 and 1977, and in 2002 was made an inaugural member of the Norwich City F.C. Hall of Fame. In 1978, whilst still a Norwich City player, Peters was awarded an MBE for services to association football. Peters also travelled to Australia and played as a guest player for Victorian State League side Frankston City. For them he played five games, scoring three goals; the team won four and drew one of the matches in which he competed.

Sheffield United
He joined Sheffield United on 31 July 1980 as player-coach, eventually replacing Harry Haslam as manager.

1966 World Cup
Alf Ramsey had seen Peters' potential quickly, and in May 1966 he gave the young midfielder his debut for England national team against Yugoslavia at Wembley. England won 2–0 and Peters had an outstanding debut. Nearly scoring twice he set up chances for Jimmy Greaves and for others. In the final preparation period for Ramsey prior to naming his squad for the 1966 FIFA World Cup, Peters played in two more of the scheduled warm-up games. Against Finland, he scored his first international goal in what was only his second appearance, and subsequently he made Ramsey's squad for the competition, as did his West Ham teammates Bobby Moore (the England captain) and Geoff Hurst.

Though Peters did not play in the opening group game against Uruguay, the drab 0–0 draw prompted Ramsey into changes. The England coach had been toying with using a system which allowed narrow play through the centre, not operating with conventional wingers but instead with fitter, centralised players who could show willing in defence as well as spread the ball and their runs in attack. Peters therefore had become an ideal player for this 4-1-3-2 system, elegant in his distribution and strong in his forward running, yet showing the stamina, discipline and pace to get back and help the defence when required. This system was dubbed "the wingless wonders".

Ramsey put Peters in the team for his fourth cap, for the second group game against Mexico, which England won 2–0. He kept his place as England got through their group, scraped past a violent Argentina side in the quarter finals (Peters' late cross set up Hurst's header for the only goal) and beat Portugal in the last four. The West Germany awaited in the final.

A tense but open game at Wembley saw the score at 1–1 in the final quarter of an hour when England won a corner. Alan Ball delivered it to the edge of the area to Hurst, who tried a shot on the turn. The ball deflected high into the air and bounced down into the penalty area where Peters rifled home a half-volley. West Germany equalised in the final seconds, though glory would still come the team's way with the 4–2 win in extra time, and Hurst – like Peters, winning only his eighth cap – completing a historic hat-trick.

1970 World Cup
Peters played in England's three group games in the 1970 FIFA World Cup in Mexico, from which they qualified, again with West Germany waiting in the last eight. Peters scored against Germany again early in the second half – a run and finish from behind a defender which no West German player had spotted – to establish a 2–0 lead, but later Ramsey committed a tactical error by substituting Peters and Bobby Charlton with Colin Bell and Norman Hunter, and West Germany won 3–2 in extra-time.

Later international career
In 1972, Peters won his 50th England cap in a qualifier for UEFA Euro 1972, beating Switzerland 3–2. England failed to progress due to another defeat against West Germany, who went on to win the tournament. International disappointment for Peters was tempered mildly by more club success, and he scored the only goal as England beat Scotland at Wembley on 19 May 1973. It was his 20th goal for his country and would prove to be his last. England had been stuttering in their qualifying campaign for the 1974 FIFA World Cup, dropping points in a drawn game against Wales and then a 2–0 defeat against Poland in Chorzów on 6 June 1973. England needed to defeat Poland at Wembley on 17 October 1973 to qualify for the finals in Germany, and with an out-of-form Moore dropped from the side – he would subsequently play only once more for his country – Peters captained the side for the crucial game. A defensive error allowed Poland to score, and only a penalty allowed England to level up quickly. Allan Clarke scored from it, but England could not get the crucial winning goal. Poland went through after the match finished 1–1, meaning Peters would not play in a third successive World Cup competition.

At the age of 30, Peters' career at the highest level began to slip away. He played three more games for England, reaching a total of 67 caps, though his career with his country ended on 18 May 1974, as England lost 2–0 against Scotland at Hampden Park.

Managerial career
His wait to become manager was not long, his final game coming against Gillingham on 17 January 1981 which Haslam was too ill to attend, and at which there were demonstrations from the Sheffield United fans. Peters retired to take up the manager's job the following day with United 12th in the table with 16 games to play, but was unable to halt the decline already in place, winning just three of the remaining games. For the first and only time in their history Sheffield United were relegated to the Fourth Division, and Peters resigned. On his retirement from professional football in January 1981, after a distinguished and injury-free career, he had made 882 appearances in total, scoring 220 goals. After he quit Sheffield United, Peters spent the 1982–83 season playing in defence for Gorleston in the Eastern Counties League.

After football
In 1984, he moved into the insurance business where he stayed until he was made redundant in July 2001.

Peters joined the board of directors at Spurs in a non-executive capacity in 1998, taking on a supporter-liaison role. He remained in that post for four years before stepping down, but remained one of the match-day welcomers in the hospitality suites at the club's White Hart Lane ground. He also worked in the hospitality suites at Upton Park for West Ham home matches.

In 2006, Peters published his autobiography, The Ghost of '66. That same year he was inducted, with former manager Ron Greenwood, into the English Football Hall of Fame in recognition of his achievements as a player.

Personal life
In 1964, Peters married Kathleen Ward, with whom he had two children. They remained married until his death in 2019. Peters identified as a Conservative Party supporter when asked about his politics in 1972.

In 2016, it was announced that Peters had Alzheimer's disease. Peters died on 21 December 2019, aged 76. Tributes were paid to him from football clubs he played for, including West Ham, Tottenham Hotspur, Norwich City and many others. In September 2021, Peters' ashes were interred in a foundation stone at West Ham's ground, the London Stadium.

Club

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International

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 * Scores and results list England's goal tally first, score column indicates score after each Peters goal.

Football
West Ham United
 * European Cup Winners' Cup: 1964–65
 * Football League Cup runner-up: 1965–66

Tottenham Hotspur
 * Football League Cup: 1970–71, 1972–73
 * UEFA Cup: 1971–72; runner-up: 1973–74
 * Anglo-Italian League Cup: 1971

International
 * FIFA World Cup: 1966
 * UEFA European Football Championship third place: 1968

Individual
 * World XI: 1968, 1969
 * Rothmans Golden Boots Awards: 1971

Orders and special awards

 * MBE for services to football, (1978).

title: Martin Peters


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Saturn Award for Best Horror Film

The Saturn Awards for Best Horror Film is an award presented to the best film in the horror genre by the Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Films.

It was introduced in 1973 for the 1972 film year. For the 2010, 2011 and 2012 film years, it was renamed Best Horror or Thriller Film (with the Best Action, Adventure or Thriller Film category becoming Best Action or Adventure Film). In 2013 the award came back to its original form, with a new Best Thriller Film award being created.

Winners and nominees
In the list below, winners are listed first in bold, followed by the other nominees.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Saturn Award for Best Horror Film


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Maxim Litvinov

Maxim Maximovich Litvinov (born Meir Henoch Wallach-Finkelstein; 17 July 1876 – 31 December 1951) was a Russian revolutionary and prominent Soviet statesman and diplomat who served as People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs from 1930 to 1939.

Litvinov was an advocate for diplomatic agreements leading to disarmament, and was influential in making the Soviet Union a party to the 1928 Kellogg–Briand Pact. He was also responsible for the 1929 Litvinov Protocol, a multilateral agreement to implement the Kellogg-Briand Pact between the Soviet Union and several neighboring states.

In 1930, Litvinov was appointed People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs, the highest diplomatic position in the USSR. During the 1930s, Litvinov advocated the official Soviet policy of collective security with Western powers against Nazi Germany.

Early life and first exile

Meir Henoch Wallach was born into a wealthy, Yiddish-speaking, Lithuanian Jewish banking family in Białystok, Grodno Governorate, Russian Empire. Meir was the second son of Moses and Anna Wallach. In 1881, Moses Wallach was arrested, held in prison for six weeks, then released without charge. Meir was educated at a local realschule; in 1893 he joined the army but was discharged in 1898 after he allegedly disobeyed an order to fire into a crowd of striking workers in Baku. That year, in Kiev, Wallach joined the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party (RSDLP), which was considered an illegal organization; it was customary for its members to use pseudonyms. Meir changed his name to Maxim Litvinov—a common Litvak surname—but was also known as "Papasha" and "Maximovich". Litvinov also wrote articles under the names "M.G. Harrison" and "David Mordecai Finkelstein". Litvinov's early responsibilities included propaganda work in the Chernigov Governorate. In 1900, Litvinov became a member of the Kiev party committee, all of whom were arrested in 1901. After 18 months in custody, Litvinov and Nikolay Bauman organised a mass escape of 11 inmates from Lukyanivska Prison, overpowering a warden and using ropes and grappling irons to scale the walls. Litvinov moved to Geneva, where the founder of Russian Marxism, Georgi Plekhanov, enlisted him as an agent of the revolutionary newspaper Iskra. Litvinov organised a route to smuggle the newspaper from Germany into Russia.

In July 1903, Litvinov was in London for the party's second congress when the RSDLP split. He became a founding member of the Bolshevik faction under Vladimir Lenin, whom Litvinov first met in the British Museum Reading Room. The two went to Hyde Park to hear some of the speeches, and remained in contact with each other during this period. Litvinov returned to Russia during the 1905 Revolution, when he became editor of the RSDLP's first legal newspaper Novaya Zhizn in Saint Petersburg.

Second emigration
When the Russian government began arresting the Bolsheviks in 1906, Maxim Litvinov left the country and spent the next ten years as an émigré and arms dealer for the party. He based himself in Paris and travelled throughout Europe. Posing as an officer in the Ecuadorian Army, he bought machine guns from the State Munitions Factory in Denmark, and posing as a Belgian businessman, he bought more weapons from Schroeder and Company of Germany. He then arranged for the whole consignment to be transported to Bulgaria, where he told the authorities the arms were destined for Macedonian and Armenian rebels fighting for independence in the Ottoman Empire. Litvinov then bought a yacht, and handed it and the weapons to the Armenian revolutionary Kamo to be smuggled across the Black Sea. The yacht, however, ran aground and the weapons were stolen by Romanian fishermen. Despite this setback, Litvinov successfully smuggled these arms into Russia via Finland and the Black Sea.

In 1907, Litivnov attended the fifth RSDLP congress in London. Initially, he relied on Rowton Houses for accommodation in London but the party eventually arranged a rented house for Litvinov, which he shared with Joseph Stalin, who also wanted to find more-comfortable housing than the Rowton hostels.

In January 1908, French police arrested Litvinov under the name Meer Wallach while carrying twelve 500-ruble banknotes that had been stolen in a bank robbery in Tiflis the year before. The Russian government demanded his extradition and the French Minister for Justice Aristide Briand ruled Litvinov's crime was political and ordered him to be deported. He went to Belfast, Ireland, where he joined his sister Rifka and her family. There, he taught foreign languages in the Jewish Jaffe Public Elementary School until 1910.

Litvinov moved to England in 1910 and lived there for eight years. In 1912, he replaced Lenin as the Bolshevik representative on the International Socialist Bureau. When the First World War broke out in 1914, the Russian government requested all Russian émigrés who were in allied England and eligible for military service return to serve in the Imperial Russian Army. Litvinov was able to convince the English officer who interviewed him that he would be tried rather than conscripted if he returned to Russia.

In February 1915, Litvinov, uninvited, attended a conference of socialists from the Triple Entente that included Keir Hardie, Ramsay MacDonald and Emile Vandervelde; and the Mensheviks Yuri Martov and Ivan Maisky. Lenin prepared a statement demanding every socialist who held a government post should resign and opposing the continuation of the war. The conference chairman refused to allow Lenin to finish speaking. Litvinov regularly spoke in public opposing the war but failed to accept the fact the UK had declared war to avoid breaking a treaty to defend Belgium. At the peak of his power in the 1930s, Litvinov would emphasise the importance of abiding by the terms of treaties.

In England, Litvinov met and in 1916 married Ivy Low, the daughter of a Jewish university professor.

First Soviet representative to Britain
On 8 November 1917, a day after the October Revolution, the Council of People's Commissars (Sovnarkom) appointed Maxim Litvinov as the Soviet government's plenipotentiary representative in the United Kingdom. His accreditation was never officially formalised and his position as an unofficial diplomatic contact was analogous to that of Bruce Lockhart, Britain's unofficial agent in Soviet Russia. Litvinov was allowed to speak freely, even after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, which took Russia out of the war.

In January 1918, Litvinov addressed the Labour Party Conference, praising the achievements of the Revolution. Alexander Kerensky, the leader of the democratic Russian Provisional Government that had replaced the Tsar and was overthrown by Lenin, was welcomed by the British government on a visit to London and also addressed the Labour Party Conference, criticising the dictatorship and repression of Lenin's government. Litvinov replied to Kerensky in the left-wing English press, criticising him as being supported by foreign powers and baselessly accused him of trying to restore Tsarism.

A mutiny took place in February 1918 on a Russian ship in the River Mersey. The police, having been warned of possible trouble, had the ship under surveillance. When shouts that the crew were threatening to kill their officers were heard, the ship was boarded and the crew were arrested. Shortly before the mutiny, a police report confirmed Litvinov had received the sailors very well. Litvinov had not tried to dissuade the sailors from carrying out the mutiny or to condemn it, and may have encouraged it. Litvinov also sought interviews with British, American, Australian and Canadian soldiers, and inculcated them with Bolshevik ideas, as well as inducing British and American soldiers of Jewish descent to carry on propaganda in their regiments. On one occasion, thirty Royal Engineers, along with some American and Canadian soldiers, were received in Litvinov's office.

At the end of 1917, Litvinov had secured the release of Georgy Chicherin from Brixton prison, but in September 1918, the British government arrested Litvinov, ostensibly for having addressed public gatherings held in opposition to British intervention in the ongoing Russian Civil War. Litvinov was held until he was exchanged for Lockhart, who had been similarly imprisoned in Russia.

Following his release, Litvinov returned to Moscow, arriving there at the end of 1918. He was appointed to the governing collegium of the People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs (Narkomindel) and immediately dispatched on an official mission to Stockholm, Sweden, where he presented a Soviet peace appeal. Litvinov was subsequently deported from Sweden but spent the next months as a roving diplomat for the Soviet government, helping to broker a multilateral agreement allowing the exchange of prisoners of war from a range of combatants, including Russia, the UK and France. This successful negotiation amounted to de facto recognition of the new revolutionary Russian government by the other signatories to the agreement and established Litvinov's importance in Soviet diplomacy.

Litvinov tried to intervene in Britain's internal politics, agreeing to the request of the Daily Herald, a newspaper supporting the Labour Party, to ask the Soviet government for financial assistance. In view of the publicity caused by a leak in The Times, the Daily Herald did not accept the money.

Irish contacts and the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement
In February 1921, the Soviet government was approached by the government of the unilaterally declared Irish Republic in Dublin with proposals for a treaty of mutual recognition and assistance. Despairing of early American recognition for the Irish Republic, President of the Dáil Éireann Éamon de Valera had redirected his envoy Patrick McCartan from Washington to Moscow. McCartan may have assumed Litvinov, with his Irish experience, would be a ready ally. Litvinov, however, told McCarten the Soviet priority was a trade agreement with the UK.

In March 1921, the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement, authorising trade between the two countries so gold sent to Britain to pay for goods could not be confiscated, was signed but the British government and the British press began to complain about Moscow-directed subversion. In June, the British government published a proposed treaty between the Dáil government and the Soviets, and related correspondence; the question of Communist intrigue in the Irish War of Independence made headlines.

Finally, the British Foreign Secretary sent a note of protest to the Soviet Government, charging it with responsibility for a range of intrigues against the British Government and its imperial interests. Litvinov replied that "The British Foreign Office has been misled by a gang of professional forgers and swindlers, and had it known the dubious sources of its information, its note of 7 September [1921] would never have been produced", stating that the complaints of anti-British activities were in part based on such fictitious reports. The Russian Government wished to state that, after the conclusion of the Anglo-Russian agreement, it had instructed its representatives in the East to abstain from any anti-British propaganda, although on its part it felt compelled to place on record that the attitude of the British Government had lately been far from friendly towards Russia. He cited the imprisonment and expulsion of Russian trade agents in Constantinople, the co-operation with the French Government in the so-called ‘Russian question’, the continued support to French schemes frustrating international efforts to help relieve famine in Russia, and lastly the presentation of the British note of 7 September. At a time when France was inciting Poland and Rumania to make war on Russia, this did not induce the Russian Government to believe that it was the sincere desire of the British Government to foster friendly relations between the governments and peoples of the two countries.

First Deputy People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs
In 1921, Litvinov was appointed First Deputy People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs, second in command to People's Commissar Georgy Chicherin (1872–1936). Although both men were loyal to the Soviet regime, Litvinov and Chicherin were temperamental opposites and became rivals. Chicherin had a cultivated, polished personal style but held strongly anti-Western opinions. He sought to hold Soviet Russia aloof from diplomatic deal-making with capitalist powers. According to diplomatic historian Jonathan Haslam, Litvinov was less erudite and coarser than Chicherin but was willing to deal in good faith with the West for peace and a pause for Soviet Russia to pursue internal development.

In 1924, full diplomatic relations were restored under the Macdonald Labour government. The Conservative Party and the business community continued to be hostile to the Soviet Union, partly because the Soviet Union had not honoured Tsarist debts and partly because of the fear of Bolshevism spreading to Britain, and considered the Bolshevist government should be militarily overthrown. This was exacerbated by the Soviet government's support of the 1926 General Strike and criticism of the British Trades Union Congress (TUC) for calling off the strike. The Soviet government offered a gift of £25,000 to the TUC, which was refused, and £200,000 to the co-operative movement, which was accepted.

Litvinov wanted to prevent a deterioration of relations and suggested he should have talks with Hodgson, the UK's chargé d'affaires in Moscow. Hodgson, who was privately sympathetic to some of Litvinov's complaints, communicated with the Foreign Office, giving various reasons for criticising Britain's position. Britain had signed a trade agreement in 1921 and given the Soviet Government de jure recognition in 1923, and HM Government had recently indicated that it intended to maintain its relationship with the Soviet Government. Anti-red outbursts could prejudice its position in dealing with problems that needed discussion with the Soviet Government. Importantly, the Soviet Union, whatever her political complexion, was a badly needed market. Although anti-red sentiment might be useful in the political warfare at home, it was seen in Russia as an admission of weakness. However, most pressing, was the incalculable commercial harm. The insecurity would make the Soviet Government hesitant about placing orders in Britain, cause British firms to fight shy of Russian orders and frighten British banks from financing them.

The Conservative government, under pressure from Conservative MPs on the uncorroborated evidence of a dismissed employee that the Soviet Trade Mission had stolen a missing War Office document, successfully asked Parliament to sever diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union. Although Chicherin advocated caution, Litvinov, presumably with Joseph Stalin's support, said:

"The decision was no surprise to the Soviet Government. It had already for long been aware that a rupture of diplomatic relations with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was being prepared by the whole policy of the present British Conservative Government, which has declined all proposals of the Soviet Government for the settlement of mutual relations by means of negotiations. The lack of results of the search of the Trade Delegation premises, which was carried out with utmost thoroughness over several days, is the most convincing proof of the loyalty and correctitude of the official agents of the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics. The Soviet Government passes over with contempt the insinuations of a British Minister regarding espionage by the Trade Delegation and considers it beneath its dignity to reply to them. The Soviet Government places on record that the British Government had no legitimate ground for a police raid on the extraterritorial premises of the official Soviet agent."

Hodgson agreed with Litvinov that the police raid on the Arcos building in London was deplorable and said so in a letter to The Times in 1941, showing his pleasure at Litvinov's appointment as Soviet ambassador to the United States.

After the Labour Party won the most seats in the 1929 election, the new Prime Minister, Ramsay MacDonald, set about restoring relations with the Soviet Union on condition that the Soviet Union refrained from initiating propaganda in Britain. Litvinov was in favour of being conciliatory, but letters between Joseph Stalin and Vyacheslav Molotov show Stalin overruled Litvinov's conciliatory attitude, resulting in British Foreign Secretary Arthur Henderson ignoring problems rather than working towards an effective agreement on propaganda, effectively giving unconditional recognition to the Soviet Union.

Proponent of disarmament
Litvinov supported disarmament, actively attending the Disarmament Preparatory Commission from 30 November 1927 until it was replaced by the World Disarmament Conference in Geneva in 1932. Initially he advocated total disarmament. French politician Joseph Paul-Boncour criticised such proposals:

"Supposing you had total disarmament; if there was no international organisation taking charge of security, if you had no international force to ensure the maintenance of this security, if you had no international law such as we are endeavouring to lay down here, a powerful and populous nation would always have the power when it wished to do so on a small nation equally disarmed, less populous and less well equipped to resist an attack which might be made upon it."

Litvinov's answer was:

"Would small nations be less insecure after their powerful neighbours who have disarmed than they are now when, in addition to economic, financial, territorial and other superiorities possessed by the great powers, the latter also enjoy the immense advantage of greater armaments."

Litvinov's proposals won him favourable publicity in radical circles in Western countries that were eager for disarmament and impatient at the commission's slow progress. The national joint Council of the Labour Party, the Parliamentary Labour Party and the TUC passed a resolution expressing their sense of the great importance of proposals for general-and-simultaneous disarmament submitted by the Soviet delegation at the Commission in Geneva on 30 November 1927.

Litvinov favoured Soviet participation in the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928, which pledged signatories to the elimination of the use of war as a tool of foreign policy, a position opposite to that of his nominal superior Chicherin. Litvinov, who was frustrated by the failure of the Kellogg-Briand Pact signatories to ratify the treaty, proposed the Litvinov Protocol, in which signatories formally proclaimed themselves in mutual compliance with the pact's goals. The protocol was signed in Moscow in February 1929 by the Soviet Union, Poland, Romania, Latvia, and Estonia, and later by several other countries.

People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs

In 1930, Joseph Stalin appointed Litvinov People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs. Litvinov, who was a firm believer in collective security, worked to form a closer relationship with France and the United Kingdom, a policy seemingly at odds with the "class against class" line of the Third Period being advocated by Communist International. Litvinov remained the only leading official of Narkomindel in the mid-1930s who had direct personal access to Stalin and who could deal with Stalin's inner circle on terms approaching equality; this was in contrast to other top foreign-affairs officials such as Boris Stomonyakov and Nikolay Krestinsky, for whom access was limited to occasional supplication.

Stalin was largely detached from and uninterested in foreign policy throughout the early 1930s, largely leaving the general operations of Narkomindel and the Comintern to their leaders. Litvinov had wide latitude to pursue policy objectives and was subject only to broad review and approval from the leadership. Stalin frequently delegated oversight to members of his personal secretariat, including Karl Radek, until mid-1936. As a result, Litvinov's Narkomindel could pursue a moderate foreign-policy line, emphasising stable relations between governments leading towards general disarmament, which was, as one historian called it, a "curious mismatch" with the revolutionary militancy then being voiced by the Comintern.

On 6 February 1933, Litvinov made the most-significant speech of his career, in which he tried to define aggression. He stated that the internal situation of a country, alleged maladministration, possible danger to foreign residents, and civil unrest in a neighbouring country were not justifications for war. In 1946, the British Government would accuse the Soviet Union of not complying with Litvinov's definition. Finland made similar criticisms against the Soviet Union in 1939.

Many delegates, such as British delegate Lord Cushendun, who said the failure of the Disarmament Conference would be gratifying to the Soviet delegation, derided Litvinov but due to the soundness of Litvinov's argument and eloquence, his standing grew. In 1933, the Greek Chairman of the Political Commission of the League of Nations stated:"It was with special pleasure he paid this tribute to the Soviet delegation since it demonstrated beyond doubt that when men rose above the contingencies of day-to-day politics and allowed themselves to be guided by the more general ideas which should lead the civilised world, it was found that there was a community of ideals which was capable with a little goodwill of bringing to fruition the noblest and most difficult enterprises."

In 1933, Litvinov was instrumental in winning a long-sought formal diplomatic recognition of the Soviet government by the United States. US President Franklin Roosevelt sent comedian Harpo Marx to the Soviet Union as a goodwill ambassador. Litvinov and Marx became friends and performed a routine on stage together. Litvinov also facilitated the acceptance of the Soviet Union into the League of Nations, where he represented his country from 1934 to 1938.

In 1935, Litvinov negotiated the Franco-Soviet Treaty of Mutual Assistance and another treaty with Czechoslovakia with the aim of containing Nazi Germany's aggression. Writing in A History of the League of Nations (1952), F. P. Walters expressed "astonished admiration", praising Litvinov's farsighted analysis: "No future historian will lightly disagree with any views expressed by Litvinov on international questions ... Nothing in the annals of the League can compare with them in frankness, in debating power, in the acute diagnosis of each situation. No contemporary statesman could point to such a record of criticisms justified and prophecies fulfilled."

Litvinov has been considered to have concentrated on taking strong measures against Italy, Japan and Germany, and being little interested in other matters. He praised the achievements of the Soviet Union but he may not have agreed with collective farming. At the time of the Moscow Trials, Litvinov was appointed to a committee that decided the fate of Bukharin and Rykov, voting for them to be expelled and tried but not executed, they were eventually handed to the NKVD. During the Great Purge, the Foreign Commissariat lacked ambassadors in nine capitals; Litvinov reported this to Stalin, noting the damage without criticising the cause. Indeed, Litvinov publicly endorsed the purges and the campaign against the Trotskyites, although this may have been out of self-preservation.

Negotiations regarding Germany and dismissal
After the 1938 Munich Agreement, German state media derided Litvinov for his Jewish ancestry, referring to him as "Finkelstein-Litvinov". On 15 April 1939, Litvinov sent a comprehensive proposal to Stalin for a tripartite agreement with Britain and France. The following day, Litvinov saw Stalin to discuss his draft, which Stalin approved. According to Soviet records, Litvinov submitted detailed arguments in favour of the proposed pact, which Stalin accepted. Litvinov stated they ought not to wait for the other side to propose what the Soviets wanted. Litvinov summarised his proposals, which were for mutual assistance in case of aggression against the Soviet Union, Britain or France; and support for all states bordering the Soviet Union, including Finland and the Baltic States. It also provided for rapid agreement on the form such assistance would take. There would be an agreement not to conclude a separate peace.

By 16 April, Stalin still had faith in Litvinov and had no immediate plans to remove him. No concrete proposals for a Nazi-Soviet pact had been made by either country. Litvinov said: "We can expect urgent and complex negotiations with the French and especially the British. We need to monitor public opinion and try to influence it." The new proposals had Stalin's support; Litvinov summoned the British Ambassador, William Seeds, while he was at the theatre with his wife. Litvinov could have had the proposals conveyed to the Embassy with a request for Seeds to visit Litvinov urgently in the morning.

Litvinov had a poor opinion of Neville Chamberlain, and was not surprised Russia's proposal for an alliance was not welcomed, but he may have been surprised by the attitude of the British Foreign Office. Cadogan, in his diary, described Litvinov's proposals as "mischievous". A Foreign Office report to the Foreign Affairs Cabinet Committee termed them 'inconvenient'. On 7 June 1939, Winston Churchill stated he "much preferred the Russian proposals. They are simple. They are logical and conform to the main groupings of common interest." Churchill also stated the Soviet claim the Baltic States should be included in the triple guarantee was well founded. Three years later, Britain would agree a similar pact of assistance with the Soviet Union. Litvinov's proposals were also conveyed to the French Ambassador Émile Naggiar.

As soon as the proposals reached the French Government, the first reaction of Georges Bonnet, the Foreign Minister, was different from that of the British Government and Foreign Office. Bonnet saw the Soviet Ambassador Jakob Suritz, who cabled that "the first impression of the French is very favourable". Britain persuaded the French Government to take no action until a common policy had been formulated. In talks between the French and the British governments, both failed to either accept or reject the proposals until after Litvinov's dismissal on 4 May. Molotov proceeded with negotiations for a pact and a military mission left for Moscow.

The Foreign Office confirmed to the US chargé d'affaires on 8 August 1939 "the military mission, which had now left for Moscow, had been told to make every effort to prolong discussions until 1 October 1939". Halifax disclosed to the Foreign Affairs Committee on 10 July 1939: "Although the French were in favour of the military conversations commencing, the French Government thought that the military conversations would be spun out over a long time and as long as they were taking place we should be preventing Soviet Russia from entering the German camp."

Dismissal
On 3 May 1939, Stalin replaced Litvinov, who was closely identified with the anti-German position, with Vyacheslav Molotov. At a prearranged meeting, Stalin said: "The Soviet Government intended to improve its relations with Hitler and if possible sign a pact with Nazi Germany. As a Jew and an avowed opponent of such a policy, Litvinov stood in the way." Litvinov argued and banged on the table. Stalin then demanded Litvinov to sign a letter of resignation. On the night of Litvinov's dismissal, NKVD troops surrounded the offices of the Commissariat of Foreign Affairs. The telephone at Litvinov's dacha was disconnected and the following morning, Molotov, Georgy Malenkov, and Lavrenty Beria arrived at the commissariat to inform Litvinov of his dismissal. Many of Litvinov's aides were arrested and beaten, possibly to extract compromising information.

Hitler took Litvinov's removal more seriously than Chamberlain. The German ambassador to the Soviet Union, Schulenburg, was in Iran. Hilger, the First Secretary, was summoned to see Hitler, who asked why Stalin might have dismissed Litvinov. Hilger said: "According to my firm belief he [Stalin] had done so because Litvinov had pressed for an understanding with France and Britain while Stalin thought the Western powers were aiming to have the Soviet Union pull the chestnuts out of the fire in the event of war".

Litvinov was not in disgrace; he continued to attend official functions and carry out his duties as a member of the Supreme Soviet and the Central Committee.

Litvinov also attended the Supreme Soviet when the budget was presented and on the occasion of Molotov's speech in support of the Nazi–Soviet Pact. There was no praise or recognition of Litvinov's work after he had held the position of Foreign Minister for nine years. Two months later, when Litvinov applied for a passport to go to Vichy, France, to take the waters, it was refused, presumably on the grounds he might defect or abscond.

According to Louis Fischer, "Litvinov never by hint or word approved of Stalin's pact with Hitler". Ivy Litvinov stated: "the Nazi-Soviet Pact had not inspired her husband with much confidence". Litvinov would not have been surprised if Germany had broken any agreement and would have ensured the USSR would have been well prepared for a German invasion of its territory.

Aftermath of dismissal

According to Holroyd-Doveton, Litvinov, if he had been Foreign Commissar, would have approved the Pact. Sheinis states when foreign correspondents first asked Litvinov about the Pact, he evaded the question, but then said: "I think this calls for a closer look, because among other things enemies of the Soviet Union ascribe to me what I never said". Litvinov is reported to have told Ehrenburg: "The Pact was absolutely necessary". He told foreign journalists:

The imperialists in these two countries had done everything they could to goad Hitler's Germany against the Soviet Union by secret deals and provocative moves. In the circumstances the Soviet Union could either accept German proposals for a non-aggression treaty and thus secure a period of peace in which to redouble preparations to repulse the aggressor; or turn down Germany's proposals and let the warmongers in the Western camp push the Soviet Union into an armed conflict with Germany in unfavourable circumstances and in a setting of complete isolation. In this situation the Soviet Government was compelled to make the difficult choice and conclude a non-aggression treaty with Germany. I, too, would probably have concluded a pact with Germany although a bit differently.

Litvinov's replacement by Molotov significantly increased Stalin's freedom to manoeuver in foreign policy. The dismissal of Litvinov, whose Jewish background was viewed disfavorably by Nazi Germany, removed an obstacle to negotiations with Germany. Stalin immediately directed Molotov to "purge the ministry of Jews". Recalling Stalin's order, Molotov commented: "Thank God for these words! Jews formed an absolute majority in the leadership and among the ambassadors. It wasn't good."

Given Litvinov's prior attempts to create an anti-fascist coalition, association with the doctrine of collective security with France and Britain, and pro-Western orientation by Kremlin standards, his dismissal indicated the existence of a Soviet option of rapprochement with Germany. Molotov's appointment was a signal to Germany the USSR would negotiate. The dismissal also signaled to France and Britain the existence of a potential negotiation option with Germany. One British official wrote Litvinov's disappearance meant the loss of an admirable technician or shock-absorber, while Molotov's modus operandi was "more truly Bolshevik than diplomatic or cosmopolitan".

With regard to the signing of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact with secret protocols partitioning Eastern Europe between Germany and the USSR three months later, Hitler told military commanders; "Litvinov's replacement was decisive, because Litvinov was a Jewish". A German official told the Soviet Ambassador Hitler was pleased Litvinov's replacement Molotov was not Jewish. Hitler also wrote to Benito Mussolini that Litvinov's dismissal demonstrated the Kremlin's readiness to alter relations with Berlin, which led to "the most extensive nonaggression pact in existence". When Litvinov was asked about the reasons for his dismissal, he replied; "Do you really think that I was the right person to sign a treaty with Hitler?"

American historian Jeffrey Herf views Litvinov's dismissal and the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact as conclusive proof the Nazi belief in a Jewish conspiracy that supposedly controlled the governments of the Soviet Union and other allied powers was completely false.

Wartime career
Following the Nazi–Soviet Pact, although given little official Soviet recognition, Stalin continued to respect Litvinov. The British Embassy records confirm Litvinov was conspicuous at the 1939 anniversary of the Revolution by Lenin's Mausoleum. He was standing on the edge of a group that included Stalin, Molotov, Kaganovich, Mikoyan, Andreev, Beria, and Dimitrov. Litvinov was in full view of the diplomatic stand of foreign journalists, some of whom had no hesitation in exchanging salutations with Litvinov. The New York Times said about thirty members of the German Trade delegation, the German Military Attaché, and members of a Finnish delegation watched the parade. The emergence of Litvinov wearing his usual flat cap was apparently a source of interest to the German delegation near the tomb; it was Litvinov's first public appearance for several months in the company as Stalin's entourage. Litvinov was also in a conspicuous place at the 1940 celebration of the Russian Revolution. According to Holroyd-Doveton, no meaningful position was allotted by Stalin to Litvinov.

In the 21-month period between the declaration of war by France and Britain, and the invasion of the Soviet Union by Germany, Ivy Litvinov describes this period of her life. She said the family spent their time with their daughter-in-law in their dacha 17 miles from Moscow and outside school holidays in the family apartment in Moscow, when they spent long weekends in the country. For two years, the family played bridge, read music, and went on long walks in the countryside with their two dogs.

On 21 February 1941, Litvinov was dismissed from the Central Committee of the Communist Party on the pretext of his inability to discharge his obligations as a member of the committee. According to Pope, he was dismissed because Stalin wanted to give no offence to the Germans. Litvinov said: "My more than 40 years in the Party oblige me to say what I think about what has happened. I do not understand why I am being dealt with in such a peremptory style."

Stalin rejected everything Litvinov had said. When Stalin stopped speaking, Litvinov asked: "Does that mean you consider me an enemy of the people?" Stalin answered: "We do not consider you an enemy of the people, but an honest revolutionary".

Litvinov had followed with anxiety the steady advance of Hitler's armies across Europe and wondered how long Britain could hold out unsupported. Even to Litvinov, the German invasion of the Soviet Union was a surprise; he did not believe Hitler would risk embarking on a second front at this stage of the war.

German invasion of the USSR
The Soviet leaders, as well as Litvinov, were concerned Britain might come to an agreement with Germany. Litvinov was worried Rudolf Hess's flight meant Britain was about to make peace with Germany. Litvinov stated all believed the British fleet was steaming up the North Sea for a joint attack with Germany on Leningrad and Kronstadt. The same day the German invasion of the USSR began, Churchill announced Britain's intention to give full aid to the Soviet Union. When Litvinov heard of Churchill's broadcast, he was much relieved. Nevertheless, Litvinov was suspicious of the British aristocracy.

Ambassador to the United States and later
Following his dismissal as head of Narkomindel, Litvinov was dispatched to Washington, D.C., to serve as the Soviet ambassador to the United States. Like Churchill, Litvinov had doubts about the Munich Agreement. Following the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Litvinov said in a radio broadcast to Britain and the United States: "We always realized the danger which a Hitler victory in the West could constitute for us". After the United States entered the war, he encouraged President Franklin D. Roosevelt to focus on the Mediterranean and Middle East theatre to prevent Axis forces in North Africa from advancing towards the Caucasus.

Early in November 1941, Litvinov was summoned to see Stalin and told his services were required as ambassador to the United States. In the US, the appointment was met with enthusiasm. The New York Times stated: "Stalin has decided to place his ablest and most forceful diplomat and one who enjoys greater prestige in this country. He is known as a man of exceptional ability, adroit as well as forceful. It is believed that Stalin, in designating him for the ambassadorship, felt Litvinov could exercise real influence in Washington."

President Roosevelt stated Litvinov's appointment was "most fortunate that the Soviet Government have deemed it advisable to send as ambassador a statesman who has already held high office in his own country". When Litvinov arrived in the US, growing Soviet resistance to the German army, which was racing to take Moscow before the onset of the Russian winter, was winning the Soviet Union supporters. According to The Washington Post:"Both Mrs Cordell Hull, the Secretary of State's wife, and the Vice-President's wife, Mrs Wallace, had travelled to the Soviet Embassy for celebrations to mark the 24th anniversary of the Soviet Revolution in 1941, where they were greeted by Mr and Mrs Gromyko and Mrs Umansky. The Under Secretary of State, Sumner Welles, Jessie Jones, the Commercial Secretary, and Francis Biddle, the Attorney General, were also present. Most foreign countries except Spain and Finland were represented."

Litvinov immediately gained popularity and was instrumental in lobbying for billions of dollars worth of Lend-Lease military and humanitarian assistance from the United States to the Soviet Union. In early December 1941, the Soviet Union's war-relief organisation called a large meeting in Madison Square, New York City, where the auditorium was filled to capacity. Litvinov, speaking in English, told of the suffering in the Soviet Union. A woman in the front row ran up to the stage and donated her diamond necklace; whilst another gave a cheque for $15,000. At the end, Litvinov said; "What we need is a second front".

The highlight of Litvinov's eighteen months as ambassador was the 25th celebration of the Russian Revolution on 7 November 1942. 1,200 guests, representing all of the United Nations, entered the reception hall to shake hands with Litvinov. Only the US president and his staff, at work on the African campaign, were missing. The Russians were happy they had more serious affairs with which to attend. Vice-president Wallace, Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau, Under Secretary of State Sumner Welles and Mrs Woodrow Wilson, Edward Stettinius—the Lend-Lease administrator—and Tom Connolly, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, were among the guests. Russian vodka and a sturgeon from the Volga were supplied to the guests.

The following day, Litvinov and his wife travelled to New York to attend celebrations. The New York Times on 8 November said Madison Square was overflowing with a wildly cheering crowd of 20,000 for the annual tribute to the Soviet Union in Litvinov's presence. The event was attended by the Soviet Union's old friends and the US vice-president, General McNair, commanding general of Army Ground Forces, capitalist Thomas Lamont, and Catholic professor Francis McMahon, who said: "not speaking up for Russia would be disloyal to his religion and country".

Roosevelt became annoyed with Litvinov's second-front zeal; he told Averell Harriman: "The US might ask for Litvinov's recall". Harriman told Litvinov Roosevelt was upset but did not repeat what the President had said. Harriman said: "If Litvinov continued that way, he would get into serious difficulties with the President. Litvinov, who had been ebullient, collapsed so completely." Litvinov's ambassadorship was now experiencing difficulties. Litvinov said the Soviet Government had forbidden him from appearing in public or making any public speeches.

After returning to Soviet Union, Litvinov became deputy minister for foreign affairs. He was dismissed from his post after an interview given to Richard C. Hottelet on 18 June 1946 in which he said a war between the West and the Soviet Union was inevitable.

Death and legacy

Litvinov died on 31 December 1951. After his death, rumours he was murdered on Stalin's instructions to the Ministry of Internal Affairs circulated. According to Anastas Mikoyan, a lorry deliberately collided with Litvinov's car as it rounded a bend near the Litvinov dacha on 31 December 1951, and he later died of his injuries. British television journalist Tim Tzouliadis stated; "The assassination of Litvinov marked an intensification of Stalin's anti-Semitic campaign". According to Litvinov's wife and daughter, however, Stalin was still on good terms with Litvinov at the time of his death. They said he had serious heart problems and was given the best treatment available during the final weeks of his life, and that he died from a heart attack on 31 December 1951.

After Litvinov's death, his widow Ivy remained in the Soviet Union until she returned to live in Britain in 1972.

In his reminiscences dictated to a supporter later in life, Vyacheslav Molotov—Litvinov's replacement as chief of foreign affairs and right-hand man of Joseph Stalin—said Litvinov was "intelligent" and "first rate" but said Stalin and he "didn't trust him" and consequently "left him out of negotiations" with the United States during the war. Molotov called Litvinov "not a bad diplomat—a good one" but also called him "quite an opportunist" who "greatly sympathized with [Leon] Trotsky, [Grigory] Zinoviev, and [Lev] Kamenev". According to Molotov; "Litvinov remained among the living [in the Great Purge] only by chance".

Litvinov's grandson Pavel Litvinov, a physicist, writer and Soviet-era dissident, resides in the United States.

Works

 * The Bolshevik Revolution: Its Rise and Meaning. London: British Socialist Party, n.d. (1919).

title: Maxim Litvinov


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Egilsay

Egilsay (, Egilsay) is one of the Orkney Islands in Scotland, lying east of Rousay. The anglicized name of Eagleshay was used in past centuries. The island is largely farmland and is known for St Magnus Church, dedicated or re-dedicated to Saint Magnus, who was killed on the island in 1117 by an axe blow to the head. For hundreds of years the story of St. Magnus, part of the Orkneyinga saga, was considered just a legend until a skull with a large crack in it, such as it had been stricken by an axe, was found in the walls of St. Magnus Cathedral in Kirkwall.

Etymology
Unusually for the Northern Isles, it has been suggested that Egilsay may have a partly Gaelic name. While at first sight, it appears to be Egil's island, "Egil" being a Norse personal name, the Gaelic eaglais (Celtic "eccles") meaning church, may be part of the root, as the island is dominated by a church of pre-Norse foundation. The island of Kili Holm just to the north, may represent cille, a monastic cell.

Present day
The island's population was 26 as recorded by the 2011 census a drop of almost a third since 2001 when there were 37 usual residents. During the same period, Scottish island populations as a whole grew by 4% to 103,702.

Orkney Ferries sail from the island to Tingwall on the Orkney Mainland via Wyre and Rousay.

title: Egilsay


text:
Talk:Metalworking

Too many stub articles
The metalworking area has too many tiny stub articles like Slack tub which are nothing but a dictionary definition. These should be expanded, or if that is not possible, merged into some larger article. --Xyzzyplugh 15:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That's still true. I recently created Four slide machine, and nobody has touched it since. --John Nagle (talk) 04:04, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Dating system
This is a stupid thing to be warring over, but to set the record straight the BCE/CE was first chosen on this edit:. Per WP:MOS the dating system should stick with that one. Now please stop warring over it. Wizard191 (talk) 13:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

doesn't make sense
The first paragraph states "The earliest substantiated and dated evidence of metalworking was processing of copper in Wisconsin, near Lake Michigan. Copper was hammered until brittle then heated so it could be worked some more. This technology is dated to about 4000-5000 BCE" then subsequent paragraphs describe use of metalworking earlier than 5000 BCE. What gives? This article contradicts itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.13 (talk) 19:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Home Hobbyist
Which of these methods are most common to the home hobbyist wishing to get into metalworking?

Not all of us have entire factories at our disposal.

The main article could be improved by explaining which methods of metalworking are common to home hobbyists. Also, it would be helpful if there were an exploration into the prices of metalworking hand tools. Which methods meet with more wear and tear, and breakage, either of the metal products, or the tools themselves? Are some tools subject to very short lifespans because they break more often than others? I am on the verge of buying a bunch of sheet metal, rolling it up so it fits in my car, and then having at it. The main article would be more informative if it dealt with home hobbyists, and their attempts to do what can also be done with large factories, but with a much smaller volume of product output. 216.99.201.214 (talk) 22:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

 * This is an encyclopedia not the consumers report. We don't address prices or which models break down faster. Wizard191 (talk) 22:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Point of View
"Today modern mining practices are more efficient, but more damaging to the earth and to the workers that are engaged in the industry."

This statement appears to violate the neutral point of view requirement, and does not appear to be substantiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.236.128.41 (talk) 21:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the heads-up...I've removed it. Wizard191 (talk) 22:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Brass and Bronze in working techniques chart?
Seems like brass and bronze (being part of the historic ladder of metals) should be included in the "can you mold/grind/forge/etc" chart. Only I don't know enough to fill in the blanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riventree (talk • contribs) 07:59, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Biblical References References Unnecessary and Irrelevant
The detailed biblical account of the origin of metalworking at the top has no place in a pragmatic/scientific article such as this. Note especially the reference to "the Bible" as if everyone should know that we're talking about the Judeo/Christian Bible and the fairly charged wording like "revealed in Genesis" being used to make statements of fact. This entire section should be removed or moved to an article on biblical history. DS8193 (talk) 14:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree (I just did not have time/energy for a strong enough opposition to the editor who was adding it). Materialscientist (talk) 04:40, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Machining section
The Machining section in this article described, exclusively, milling. So I'm renaming it to Milling, and I'll try to figure out where a heading for Machining might need to go. —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 22:08, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Machining needs a hell of a lot more coverage than it currently enjoys in this article. It's sort of mentioned at the beginning of the Cutting section as one of two main categories of cutting, but in the field of modern metalworking Machining is a large, important subject. I would almost say it needs to have pride of place in this section of the article, and I nearly just replaced "Cutting" with "Machining" and put oxy-acetylene cutting in its own section. —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 22:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Continuous casting
Should there not be a suitable section on Continuous casting in here somewhere ?  Velella  Velella Talk 12:00, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Metal Testing be merged into Metalworking. I think that the content in the Metal Testing article can easily be explained in the context of Metalworking, and the Metalworking article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Metal Testing will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. ► LowLevel (talk) 12:12, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

oppose -- this is clearly a separate & sub-discipline, see metallurgical assay. the goal of wikipedia is not "let's lump everything together in one big page" Lx 121 (talk) 04:01, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100114053711/http://americanmachinist.com/304/Issue/Article/False/84907/Issue to http://www.americanmachinist.com/304/Issue/Article/False/84907/Issue
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missing topics and poor wording
I just found this article from the Wikiproject Metalworking page and I feel it needs a good buffing up and some topics added, or linked to

 * 1) Smithing in its various forms
 * 2) Surface Finishing, Restoration, and Preservation
 * 3) Metallurgy as it applies to forming, cutting, and joining processes

I will add to this list as I think of things — vulcan_ (talk contrib) 21:46, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

× ×

Metal cutout (art): fully missing on Wikipedia
Artwork from metal sheet consisting of cutouts (2D from single sheets, 3D from multiple sheets) is left out, as far as I can tell. Metal sheet article doesn't even mention art of any kind, and this one here doesn't even contain the word "cutout", let alone a wikilink to a dedicated article or paragraph. Arminden (talk) 11:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

No Art in metal article!
Even worse (see above): there is no Art in metal article! Just a "category Ancient art in metal". A "metal art" search only leads to topics on metal rock music. Arminden (talk) 11:40, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Metalworking


text:
Saturn Award for Best Action or Adventure Film

The Saturn Award for Best Action or Adventure Film (formerly Saturn Award for Best Action, Adventure or Thriller Film from 1994 to 2009) is an award presented to the best film in the action, adventure or thriller genres by the Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Films.

Multiple wins

 * 3 wins
 * Mission: Impossible

 * 2 wins
 * Fast & Furious
 * James Bond
 * Kill Bill

Multiple nominations

 * 9 nominations
 * James Bond
 * 6 nominations
 * Fast & Furious
 * Mission: Impossible
 * 4 nominations
 * Bourne

 * 2 nominations
 * The Dark Knight Trilogy
 * Die Hard
 * Jack Ryan
 * Kill Bill
 * Sherlock Holmes
 * Unbreakable
 * John Wick


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Talk:Temple

Judaism: Temple vs. Synagogue
Considering synagogues as temples in Jewish religion is wrong. Temples and synagogues are not the same. The introductory paragraph is misleading. George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 17:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That was the least of the problems, though you are perhaps seeing a definable difference between the words that doesn't actually exist. The English terms for different places of worship are a matter of convention than any really clear distinction, & lots of synagogues use "Temple" in their name, for historical reasons the article explains. I've rewritten the lead, as churches and mosques are not "temples" either, in normal usage. Johnbod (talk) 20:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Temple


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Wyre, Orkney

Wyre (historically known as Viera and Veira) is one of the Orkney Islands, lying south-east of Rousay. It is 311 ha and 32 m at its highest point. It is one of the smallest inhabited islands in the archipelago.

Orkney Ferries sail from the island to Tingwall on the Orkney Mainland, Egilsay and Rousay.

History
Wyre's history is still very apparent, and it has two ancient monuments maintained by Historic Scotland, Cubbie Roo's Castle and St. Mary's Chapel.

Bishop Bjarni grew up on Wyre, and was the son of Kolbein Hruga (see Cubbie Roo's Castle below.)

Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland says that he:

 * "composed the only significant work of Norse poetry to have survived in the [Orkney] islands, his Lay of the Jomsvikings. He also played an important part in securing the canonisation of Earl Rognvald."

The poet Edwin Muir (1887–1959), known for his prominent part in the Scottish Renaissance, born in Deerness on Mainland, Orkney, spent much of his childhood on Wyre. In his autobiography he said of himself - "I'm an Orkneyman, a good Scandinavian", and commented that some of his happiest childhood years were spent here.

Cubbie Roo's Castle
Cubbie Roo's (or Cobbie Row's ) Castle was built in the mid-12 century by Norse landowner, Kolbeinn hrúga. The stone fortification originally consisted of a small, central tower set in an oval enclosure, surrounded by two ditches, a stone wall and an earthen rampart. It is the oldest surviving medieval castle in Scotland and was mentioned in the Orkneyinga Saga as well as King Haakon's saga. Historic Environment Scotland established the site as a scheduled monument in 1929.

St. Mary's Chapel
In the centre of the island is the roofless, but largely complete, twelfth-century St. Mary's Chapel. It is thought to have been built by a Norse chieftain, Kolbeinn hrúga or his son, Bjarni Kolbeinsson, Bishop of Orkney. The Romanesque style building was originally constructed of local rubble and lime mortar. During the late 19th century, the building was restored.

Geography and geology
Like most of Orkney, Wyre is made up of Old Red Sandstone of the Devonian period.

The island is low lying, and is shaped like an isosceles triangle on its side. It is separated from Rousay by Wyre Sound. Rousay is to the north, Gairsay to the south, Stronsay to the east, Mainland to the south west, and Shapinsay to the south east. Bu ties with Ae in Dumfries and Galloway as being Britain's shortest name for a settlement.

Wildlife
Wyre is also known for its grey and common seals, and for birdlife including divers and ducks.

Wyre Sound
Wyre is separated from the neighbouring island of Rousay by the Wyre Sound. The sound experiences strong tides, which creates the perfect conditions for maerl beds to form. The maerl beds in turn provide a sheltered habitat for species as peacock worms and various sponges, as well as small fish, shrimps, gobies and crabs. Since 2014 the sound, along with the neighbouring Rousay Sound (which separates the islands of Rousay and Egilsay), has been designated as a Nature Conservation Marine Protected Area (NCMPA). Fishing activities are controlled within the MPA, and no dredging, beam trawling, demersal trawling or Seine fishing is permitted.

title: Wyre, Orkney


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Nominal category

Introduction to nominal data
A variable used to associate each data point in a set of observations, or in a particular instance, to a certain qualitative category is a categorical variable. Categorical variables have two types of scales, ordinal and nominal. The first type of categorical scale is dependent on natural ordering, levels that are defined by a sense of quality. Variables with this ordering convention are known as ordinal variables. In comparison, variables with unordered scales are nominal variables. A nominal variable, or nominal group, is a group of objects or ideas collectively grouped by a particular qualitative characteristic. Nominal variables do not have a natural order, which means that statistical analyses of these variables will always produce the same results, regardless of the order in which the data is presented.

Even though ordinal variable statistical methods cannot be used for nominal groups, nominal group methods can be used for both types of categorical data sets; however, nominally categorizing ordinal data will remove order, limiting further dataset analysis to result in nominal outcomes.

Valid performable operations on nominal data
Since a nominal group consists of data that is either identified as a member or non-member, each individual data point carries no additional significance beyond group identification. Additionally, data identification justifies whether it is necessary to form new nominal groups based on the information available. Because nominal categories cannot be numerically organized or ranked, members associated with a nominal group cannot be placed in an ordinal or ratio form.

Nominal data is often compared to ordinal and ratio data to determine if individual data points influence the behavior of quantitatively driven datasets. For example, the effect of race (nominal) on income (ratio) could be investigated by regressing the level of income upon one or more dummy variables that specify race. When nominal variables are used in these contexts, the valid data operations that may be performed are limited. While arithmetic operations and calculations measuring the central tendency of data (quantitative assignments of data analysis, including mean, median) cannot be performed on nominal categories, performable data operations include the comparison of frequencies and the frequency distribution, the determination of a mode, the creation of pivot tables, and uses of Chi-square goodness of fit and independence tests, coding and recoding, and logistic or probit regressions.

Examples and logical analysis of nominal data
As ‘nominal’ suggests, nominal groups are based on the name of the data it encapsulates. For example, citizenship is a nominal group. A person can either be a citizen of a country or not. With this, a citizen of Canada does not have “more citizenship” than another citizen of Canada; therefore, it is impossible to order citizenship by any mathematical logic.

Another example of name categorization would be identifying "words that start with the letter 'a'". There are thousands of words that start with the letter 'a' but none have "more" of this nominal quality than others, meaning that the word starting with the letter ‘a’ is more important than determining the number of ‘a’s as the first letters of an instance because this is associated with membership rather than quantifying the data as an ordinal group.

With this, the correlation of two nominal categories is difficult because some relationships that occur are spurious, where two or more variables are incorrectly assumed to correlate with one another. Data compared within categories may also be unimportant. For example, figuring out whether proportionally more Canadians have first names starting with the letter 'a' than non-Canadians would be a fairly arbitrary, random exercise. However, the use of comparing nominal data with a frequency distribution to associate gender and political affiliation would be more effective since a correlation between the counts of a particular party affiliation would compare to the number of male and or female voters accounted in a dataset.

From a quantitative analysis perspective, one of the most common operations to perform on nominal data is dummy variable assignment, a method earlier introduced. For example, if a nominal variable has three categories (A, B, and C), two dummy variables would be created (for A and B) where C is the reference category, the nominal variable that serves as a baseline for variable comparison. Another example of this is the use of indicator variable coding that assigns a numerical value of 0 or 1 to each data point in a set. This method identifies whether individual observations belong to a particular group (set to one) or not (set to zero). This numerical association allows for more flexibility in nominal data analysis as it captures differences not only between distinct nominal groups, but also the differences present among data within a set, determining the interactions between nominal variables and other variables in a systematic context.

title: Nominal category


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User:Palapala/archive

Archive of Talk page
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some useful links in case you haven't already found them:

 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

Tip: you can sign your name with ~

snoyes 21:21, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Well, sorry. If you really, really think tables are good and well, you can still get the old version back by going to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Lino_Ventura&oldid=2258381 and editing that old version. However, tables are not good and well. Wikipedia is supposed to be editable even by people who don't know HTML, and frankly the source for your version of the page was pretty much unreadable for such a person. Use of HTML is considered harmful unless absolutely necessary, which I don't think it was in this instance.

(There is in fact a new feature which allows creation of tables without HTML, for which see m:MediaWiki User's Guide: Using tables. But they're still to be avoided, mostly, as it's still too complex.)

 * and speaking of it, I'm too old to get into fights again over the correct date & time formats, ISO being the obvious choice for anything scientific or internationally used

See Manual of Style (dates and numbers), which states pages will be gradually made to conform with this guide. Though it does note that ISO may be accepted here too one day (but not yet...)

You may also wish to look up How to edit a page for an introduction to wiki markup.

I am sorry if I was a bit rude in deleting the "damn HTML" :-/ Evercat 13:53, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I think what you say is true, though it's a consequence of how Wikipedia does those bulleted lists: the * is just interpreted as a <ul> so e.g. the following have the same style:

 These indents  done with HTML's <ul> tag

 * These indents
 * done with Wiki's * markup

Evercat 22:45, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

According to #wikipedia, the old mailserver, Ursula, stopped working about a week ago and the problem wasn't picked up until today. It was restarted earlier and apparently had 97 queued messages. However, mail is now supposed to be going to the Zwinger server, so that would only have affected old mail that was waiting in the queue. I'm not sure if there's also something wrong with that one. I assume there is as I tried sending myself an email and nothing happened. Anyway, people are looking into it, or will be. :) Angela. 18:13, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)

math
I will be glad to help you later tonight when I get home from work. --Ed Senft! 15:18, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I figured it out. Look at your playground.  You need to put \mathsf in front. --Ed Senft! 15:18, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I dunno - which disambig style to use is a matter of taste. But it also depends on whether any one meaning is a lot more common, which in this case I think the insect is. Compare for example eagle, where we first describe the bird, and then describe things named after it. I think this is a good approach, but that's just my opinion. Evercat 13:57, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You asked about the shuttle image, here is the info from the CAIB report: ''6.4.3 Special Still Imagery Analyses of Alleged "Lightning" Image. A still image taken from California was submitted to NASA by a member of the public. A superficial look at the image suggested that it might record an anomalous re-entry event that was claimed to be lightning striking the Orbiter. Our analysis suggested that the pattern was due to camera vibrations during a long-exposure''

I hope this helps. --SheikYerBooty 19:48, Feb 21, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Omegatron - nice work on the gyrator. Would you mind telling me what software you used in drawing the circuit diagram...? Suggestion: Let's rename R1 > R0, because that's basically given, and R2 > R, leaving essentially C and R to play with. --Palapala 09:24, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I used Klunky schematic editor. It is online at

 * http://www.qsl.net/wd9eyb/klunky/framed.html

 * Then I took the screenshot and edited it a bit to make it prettier. I also drew a bunch of pictures for opamp configurations, so I can make an article on that, but I left them on my work computer. What do you mean that R0 is given? - Omegatron

 * Oh you mean that the inductor you would want to simulate would already have the R1 defined? How about we name it R1 --> RL, like a real inductor would have it labeled, and then the other R2 --> R.  By the way, one of those links has the opamp inputs inverted.  Do you know if it makes a difference?  It seems like it would... - Omegatron

Hi - I found the information here PMA 08:15, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)
 * No i don't know whether there was an investigation sorry :(

I replied to you on my talk page - Omegatron

Did they send you an email or was it all over the phone? Secretlondon 22:46, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

Re "Strange Units" move: see Naming conventions, the second and subsequent words of an article title should usually be lower case, so I moved it to "Strange units". I'm not sure where you saw the underbar. The actual URL for an article has underbars replacing spaces, so Strange units shows up in your browser's address field as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_units. My intention was only to put "units" in lower case. If the title is showing up as "Strange_units" anywhere within the actual text, I made a mistake somewhere.

I disagree with you on the question of removing the accurate values. I'm not sure whether this is because a) I have less of a sense of humor than you, or b) I have more of a sense of humor than you. Everyone has their own opinion on what is encyclopedic. I like the article, but I personally think it would be better without comments such as "The term gets its giggle value from..." and "probably being conceived after having had a couple, and seeing the light of day on a beer-mat." I also have a problem with removing accurate and relevant information from an article, even a light-hearted article. But this may be ego, having spent a good three minutes making the calculations and putting the values in.

But I will not revert those sentences again if you decide to remove the accurate values. It's a matter of taste. Dpbsmith 00:35, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I didn't block / remove the image - I just tagged it. You need to make a link to a copy of the email giving permission (look at all the ones on Imported pictures for a guide. Secretlondon 21:49, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC) eg Pictures from snp.org and the details link.

Current Day variable
Not having a preceeding zero makes it consistent with our manual of style. For example, articles are titled 3 August, not 03 August. It also reduces confusion with years as 03 is more likely to be confused with 2003 than just 3 would be. I expect that because of these reasons, people would be adverse to changing it anyway. If you want to get involved with the programming side you should read the Wikitech-l mailing list if you don't already and there's quite a lot on Meta aimed at developers. Tim Starling was trying to recruit new developers on the mailing list, so you might want to talk to him. There's also a developers' IRC channel at #Mediawiki. Angela.

 * The relevant place in the source code to change would be Parser.php, line 871. However, please discuss this on the mailing list first. — Timwi 16:37, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I'm just curious -- to which "James" patience were you referring on VfD? I just wondered if it was a reference to me (my first name is James) or someone else...call it a minor touch of vanity, if you will. :) By the way, you've been doing good work here, and I like your approach to things -- keep it up. :-) Jwrosenzweig 21:08, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, then, thank you for the compliment. :) I haven't felt very patient recently, but you've encouraged me that perhaps I've done better than I'd thought.  I appreciate your letting me know. Jwrosenzweig 22:10, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

title: User:Palapala/archive


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North Ronaldsay

North Ronaldsay (, also, North Ronalshee) is the northernmost island in the Orkney archipelago of Scotland. With an area of 690 ha, it is the fourteenth-largest. It is mentioned in the Orkneyinga saga; in modern times it is known for its historic lighthouse, migratory bird life and unusual breed of sheep.

Name
The name comes from the Norse Rinansey, meaning the island of St Ninian. By the 1300s the name was being confused with Rognvaldsey, the island of St Ronald, in the south of Orkney that they were named North Ronaldsay and South Ronaldsay to distinguish them from the other.

Geography
North Ronaldsay lies around 4 km north of its nearest neighbour, Sanday, at. It is around 5 km long and is defined by two large sandy bays; Linklet Bay on the eastern shoreline and South Bay at the south. The west of the island is very rocky, with many skerries. North Ronaldsay is low-lying and exposed; its climate is extremely changeable and frequently inclement. The surrounding waters are stormy and treacherous, and have been a notorious "graveyard" for ships (hence the unusually early provision of a lighthouse on the island).

Hollandstoun at the south of the island is the most sizable settlement; it lies roughly equidistant from the airfield and the pier. North Ronaldsay is also home to a bird observatory.

A 6 ft dry stone dyke has been built to surround the island, the purpose of which is to keep the seaweed-eating local sheep off the arable land.

History
A well-preserved Iron Age broch, known as the Broch of Burrian, is located on the southern tip of the island. Excavations in 1870–71 uncovered a large number of Iron Age and Pictish artefacts, with occupation continuing up to the Norse occupation of the Orkney islands in the 9th century.

According to the Orkneyinga saga, Torf-Einarr, the 10th-century Norse Earl of Orkney, killed Hálfdan Longlegs on North Ronaldsay in revenge for Hálfdan and his brother Gudrød Ljome's slaying of Rögnvald Eysteinsson, Torf-Einarr's father. Hálfdan and Gudrød, who were the sons of King Harald Finehair of Norway, had trapped Rögnvald in his house and set it alight. Harald, apparently appalled by his sons' actions, overthrew Gudrød and restored Rögnvald's lands to his son, Thorir Rögnvaldarson, while Hálfdan fled westwards to Orkney and displaced Torf-Einarr. From a base in Caithness, Torf-Einarr resisted Hálfdan's occupation of the islands. After a battle at sea, and a ruthless campaign on land, Torf-Einarr spied Hálfdan hiding on North Ronaldsay. The sagas claim that Hálfdan was captured, and sacrificed to Odin as a blood-eagle.

The Joseph of King's Lynn was wrecked on Bride's Ness beach in April 1586. The crew salvaged the brass guns but they were confiscated by the Earl of Orkney.

Holland House was built in 1727; the Old Beacon, dating from 1789, was the third lighthouse to be built by Thomas Smith for the Commissioners of the Northern Lights.

Overview of population trends:

Transport
Flights from North Ronaldsay Airport link the island with Kirkwall on the Orkney Mainland, as does a weekly ferry operated by Orkney Ferries. In the summer there are ferries on Tuesdays and Fridays. Flights are subsidized to £36 return, or £21 return for those who stay for at least one night.

Economy

The main industries on the island are crofting and sheep farming, where unique North Ronaldsay sheep are mostly farmed collectively. Tourism also plays an important role. The island has a population of 60, roughly half of whom are descended from native islanders, and new islanders who have come to live there. There is great interest in attracting new families with young children in order to keep the school open.

Wildlife
The main purpose of the island's bird observatory, established in 1987, is to conduct long-term monitoring of bird populations and migration. North Ronaldsay is well known as one of the best birdwatching sites in the country during the spring and autumn migration periods. The quantity and variety of birds that can be seen at these times is often spectacular.

The great auk (Alca impennis) was a North Atlantic flightless bird about the size of a goose; it became extinct in 1844. North Ronaldsay was one habitat for the great auk which was quite abundant until then. At one Neolithic site, great auk bones make up nearly 14% of bird bones.

North Ronaldsay was also a habitat for the Atlantic walrus through the mid-16th century.

Old Beacon
Dennis Head, in the northeast of the island, is home to a historic lighthouse known as the Old Beacon. The light was first established in 1789 by Thomas Smith. It was to be the first of many island lighthouses for Smith (he had previously worked on the lights at Kinnaird Head and Mull of Kintyre). Smith received assistance with the North Ronaldsay light from his stepson Robert Stevenson, and from Ezekiel Walker.

In 1809, with the construction of other nearby lighthouses, it was decided that the North Ronaldsay light was no longer required, and it was extinguished. The round stone tower was retained as a sea-mark, however, and the original beacon chamber at the top replaced by a vaulted roof, capped by a remarkable ball finial. The stone spiral staircase which once led to the beacon was demolished. The original keepers' houses, roofless but largely complete, survive below the tower. In 2006, it was one of the neglected buildings selected for the TV series Restoration.

Modern lighthouse
A new lighthouse was built nearby just 43 years later in 1852. The modern lighthouse lies at the north of the island at Point of Sinsoss, and boasts Britain's tallest land-based lighthouse tower. The old fog siren with notable red trumpet was replaced by an electric diaphragm-type horn. That horn was discontinued in favour of a Tyfon horn consisting of 8 mini-trumpets installed on the building that once housed the fog siren. The Tyfon horn gives three blasts every 60 seconds. The electric beeper horn now lies flat on the ground next to the fog signal building. The fog signal is still in service today.

Education
The community has a single school, North Ronaldsay Primary School. It had a single student until July 2017, when its sole student graduated. Various organizations use the school building.

title: North Ronaldsay


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Talk:The "5" Royales

Tanner's guitar?
Does anyone know what sort of guitar Tanner played? 99.22.228.93 (talk) 18:02, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on The "5" Royales. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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title: Talk:The "5" Royales