text:
Talk:Unified Silla

Merger
Not sure I understand the reason. There is certainly more than enough to say about this period of Silla -- indeed, about the very use of the term "Unified Silla" -- to take up a full article. Cheers, -- Visviva 14:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This article must be merged to Silla. Unified silla is covered by the article Silla. --Hairwizard91 15:50, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True. And Silla is covered by the article Three Kingdoms of Korea, and the Three Kingdoms period is covered by History of Korea.  Should we merge all of them too?  -- Visviva 16:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Haha funny. I mean that there was no Unified Silla. Silla just occupied the territory of Baekje, and there was Balhae in north. So, I have changed the period or era in History of Korea based on the KOrean highschool history book. It may be fine to change the name into "Silla in North-South States' Period." Do you have another good name of this ?--Hairwizard91 16:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Since an IP has again suggested a merger, allow me to defend the name (not necessarily a separate article) "Unified Silla":
 * Please don't forget that the name "Unified (= Tongil) Silla", when taken by itself, does not necessarily imply that some state unified all territories that would later become Korea. The name could be understood – even if this is not what its creators intended – to merely imply that a state known to us as Silla controlled more or less all territories it ever did at that time, unlike at some other point in time. In other words, Silla was united, not Korea. It should also be noted that, again unlike Korea, there has never been a time before or after "Unified Silla" when several Sillas existed, but simply a period when not all territories that would later belong to Silla belonged to it yet. So, the term makes sense as soon as you understand it as something completely different from what we mean when we speak of a "Unified Korea" as opposed to a "Divided Korea" before or after it.
 * This is of course ignoring the Korean propagation (via school history books) of the term 남북국시대 where it is probably used to imply that Silla and Balhae somehow are two parts of a whole. Wikipeditor 17:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I doubt that there is a general concensus that “[the term ‘u]nification[’] is used only when all states included in the Korean history at the same era become one state”. Wikipeditor 18:01, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus Duja ► 10:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Literature

 * Primary source
 * Choi Chiwon(최치원), Sabulheo Bukguk Geosangpyo(사불허북국거상표 謝不許北國居上表) 897 AD
 * Kim Busik(김부식), Samguk Sagi(삼국사기) 1115 AD.
 * Yu Deukgong(유득공), Balhaego(발해고) 1784
 * Kim Jeongho(김정호), Daedong Jiji(대동지지, 大東地志) 1864

 * Secondary source
 * Jang Dobin(장도빈, 張道斌) National History(국사 國史) 1946
 * Gwon Deokgu(권덕규, 權悳圭), Joseon yugi(조선유기 朝鮮留記) 1924
 * 권덕영, 남북국시대 신라 황해 경영의 기반(The Basis for the Management of Yellow See by Silla in North South State Period), 한국사학회, 58, 337 (1999).
 * 이이화, 한국사이야기4 - 남국 신라와 북국 발해 (The Historical Story of Korea 4 - South State Silla and North State Balhae). 한길사 ISBN 8935651435
 * 김영하, 신라의 삼국통일은 타당한가(Is it reasonable to say unification by Silla), 역사비평, 20, 183-190

 * There are several secondary literature to say North-South state period except the above source.

Move to Silla in North-South State Period
This page must be moved in order to clarify the historical fact such that there were two Korean state in this period. --Hairwizard91 19:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Oppose, proposed title is non-intuitive and unnecessarily long. It violates both Use common names and the general spirit of Naming conventions (namely, that titles should be short and intuitive).  Are there reputable sources that refer to the period this way?  -- Visviva 11:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Also per points made at Talk:History_of_Korea. -- Visviva 13:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The suggested title is long, but unified silla does not say the historical fact. If someone who read Unified Silla may understand there was no state in the north of Silla, but this is not true. This implies that Unified Silla does not reflect on the true history. The term of unified silla does not exist in the search engine of Korean National History department(국사편찬위원회)(You can search the "통일신라" and "남북국"). No search is found if you using 통일신라. But, you can find if you used 남북국. So, can you suggest any good name, or did you find any source that describe the unified silla such that the historical fact is considered correctly though I think current suggestion is not bad.
 * Even primary source of Samguk Sagi and Balhaego(발해고) used the expression of Bukguk(North State) for Balhae and Namguk(South State) for Silla. And these expression of primary source is used currently in some secondary source shown in the above. --Hairwizard91 16:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So, I think unified silla was old term that had firstly used by Japanese colonists.--Hairwizard91 17:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, and the term "Unified Silla" is used in thousands if not tens of thousands of books and articles. There is still no grounds for moving.  Further, the term is correct; Silla's unification may have been incomplete in many respects, but nonetheless it was a unification.  Silla did come to control all of Baekje's territory and a respectable chunk of Goguryeo's as well; that is what the term "Unified Silla" is generally meant to represent.  The terms "Northern and Southern States" and "Unified Silla" are not mutually exclusive; they refer to the same historical period over different geographical scopes.  In terms of reader confusion, I really don't see your point.  There is no more reason to say that "Unified Silla" excludes Balhae from Korea than to say that the term "United States" excludes Canada from North America.  This is just silly.
 * Note that 통일신라 ("Unified Silla") is also used in the Korean-language version of the Korean history template, and in the Korean-language article on Silla. Are the users of the Korean Wikipedia so benighted, that they are using incorrect terms for their own history?  In any case, shouldn't your campaign to "fix" Korean history begin there, rather than here?  -- Visviva 17:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I see what you pointed. The unified Silla means that Silla had unified mainly Baekje. I agree with the point. There had been Unified Silla and Balhae in the Period of North South States. Thus, the article of Unified Silla cannot contain any context of unifying the three kingdoms. It should contain the two kingdoms among the three kingdoms of Korea.
 * But, you cannot compare the united states and canada with the unified silla and balhae. Are USA and Canada categorized into the story of american? No. Your comparison is not logical and sound comparison. Moreover, you have a mistake not to differentiate the two words of "united" and "unified". They are completely different meanings. --Hairwizard91 18:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, the term of Unified is not correct if Silla unified only Baekje. Unification is used only when all states included in the Korean history at the same era become one state. So, the unified Silla cannot be used. It is so illogical word "incomplete unification". There is no word of incomplete unification. Unification can only be used when three of the kingdoms are unified. Only unifying one state cannot use the term of "unified". It is no scientific word and no logical word. --Hairwizard91 19:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Another todo article
I'm currently working on Naval history of Korea. If any of you guys are still working, I'd like some help here....=/ Good friend100 16:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC

"Later" Silla?
The former name of this article "Unified Silla" is commonly known name in Korea. Also the name "Unified Silla" is used in official textbooks. -Jonghyun0411 (Maroon 5) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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Map pf Later Silla error User: Samhanin
고고학적 증거로는 통일 신라가 요녕 지역을 지배를 안 헸는데, 지도상에 왜 그런 표시가 나오는지 모르겠는데요. 영문 위키백화에 이런식으로 나온다면, 왜곡 역시라고 틸림 업습니다. 설명 부탁드랍니다, User: Samhanin. 감사합니다. There is no archaeological evidence that Later Silla controlled the present day Liaoning Province. User: Samhanin should explain this map that distorts history. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.21.250.53 (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2018 (UTC) They accept maps for publication without checking the sources. In addition, some states often changed their borders. For example, 668-698, the Silla border passed along the Yalu River, included all the Changbai Mountains, but did not include the modern North Hamgyon where the Proto-Jurchens lived and then in the Korean period it was called Yukchin. Then Bohai took away the mountainous northeastern part of the Silla possessions in the modern DPRK. But Wonsan is Silla city. However, in the west, the border ran along the Pyong River and Anju was a Korean fortress, not a Bohai one. The territory between Yalu and Pyong was contested and the subject of constant conflict. Which, however, did not develop into a war for 30 years due to the arbitration of the Chinese Tang Empire. Which both countries recognized as a suzerain. After the conflict in 735, China recognized the Penn border. But Silla retained her nobility in the area that had passed Bohai. The entire period of its independent existence (745-892), Silla had just such boundaries. But it hurts too many of the nationalist claims of both Korea and China. Unfortunately, the history of the region is an instrument of politics. Ulianurlanova (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's cartography is a real problem.

Requested move 24 August 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved.  Mdewman6 (talk) 20:50, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Later Silla → Unified Silla – No source listed on the history of the kingdom of Silla calls this kingdom Later Silla. Even the Korean on this page translates to Unified Silla 통일신라. As such, with the sources on the history of this kingdom naming it Unified Silla, then Unified Silla is the proper name. Sanctusune (talk) 08:24, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:25, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Judging from the page's previous page moves and edit history, these changes may be controversial and could be contested. A discussion should occur as both names seem to be equally reasonable page titles. Happily888 (talk) 09:39, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I must admit that I was unaware that this might be controversial, so let me elaborate as to why the title here should be changed to Unified Silla. Unified Silla is used in the official history of the Silla Kingdom, after it conquered Baekje and Goguryeo in the 7th century. In Academic works about the subject Unified Silla is always used, for example: www.newworldencyclopedia.org, www.worldhistory.org, www.britannica.com, and www.museum.go.kr the official website for the Korean National Museum all use the term "Unified Silla" besides internet sources there is some written ones as well such as Korea by Jill DuBois who talks about Unified Silla on page 22 and A New History of Korea by Ki-baik Lee and Ki-baek Yi that also talk about Unified Silla on page 73 and A Korean History for International Readers: What Do Koreans Talk About Their Own History and Culture? by The Association of Korean History Teachers (which is the same group that deals with official Korean history textbooks in Korea) talk about Unified Silla on page 83 and in none of these works is the term "Later Silla" even mentioned. This is not to say that title "Later Silla" is not ever used but it is not the officially recognized title of the Silla Kingdom once it had unified the Korean peninsula. Sanctusune (talk) 04:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. There should still be a discussion on this before a move, mainly because of comments made in this previous request. Happily888 (talk) 11:24, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Your welcome and I understand, I hope to be able to contribute to a consensus as the discussion of this topic continues. Sanctusune (talk) 13:33, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per Sanctusune. Wikipedia articles in most other languages use the name "Unified Silla" as well. Esiymbro (talk) 02:42, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Unified Silla


text:
Emmy Destinn

Emmy Destinn (Ema Destinnová ; 26 February 1878 – 28 January 1930) was a Czech operatic dramatic soprano. She had a career both in Europe and at the New York Metropolitan Opera. She was one of the greatest opera singers of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Biography
Destinn was born Emílie Pavlína Věnceslava Kittlová in Prague, in what was then Austria-Hungary. Her family soon left Prague and until the age of 14, Emmy grew up in Milešov, where her father owned mines. In 1892, she was sent to a German boarding school in Prague to learn German, playing the piano and the violin, but Anna Adamcová, a member of the National Theatre, advised her to improve her singing.

Her voice teacher since age thirteen had been Marie von Dreger Loewe-Destinn, and the young singer began using her teacher's surname as a tribute. She was let go after the short engagement at the Dresden Opera and declined by Prague National Theatre in 1897. She debuted on 19 July 1898 at the Berlin Court Opera as Santuzza in Cavalleria rusticana. She made such progress that the intendant of the Berlin Court Opera engaged her at once when she was brought to intendant's notice. She was only nineteen at the time, but her voice and her acting soon won the Berlin public. Her engagement in Berlin lasted until 27 October 1909. She sang in 54 operas, including 12 premieres.

Her fame became international in 1901 when she was invited to sing the part of Senta in Der fliegende Holländer at Germany's Bayreuth Festspielhaus. She returned to sing the same role the next year.

Destinn made her London debut at Covent Garden's Royal Opera House on 2 May 1904, as Donna Anna in Don Giovanni. She appeared there in several operas for the next two seasons, including the London premiere of Madama Butterfly with Caruso. Her Metropolitan Opera debut came in 1908 with an acclaimed performance of Aida, after she was released from her contract with the Berlin Court Opera. Two years later at the Met, she created the role of Minnie in the premiere of Puccini's La fanciulla del West, again opposite Caruso, and under the direction of Arturo Toscanini. While she was highly successful in the lighter roles of Wagner's operas, her spinto voice—although large in size, with a ringing top register—was better suited to German music of a less declamatory type. She also excelled in the French part of Carmen, in which she was said to rival Calvé, and in the Italian roles of Aida, Madama Butterfly and Leonora (in Il trovatore).

Destinn's career suffered a fatal blow in World War I. She returned to her homeland after the start of the war in 1914, but her links with the patriotic Czech resistance caused her passport to be revoked. She was interned at her chateau for the remainder of the conflict. By the time that she returned to the Met in 1919, her voice had become rusty and she had been replaced in the hearts of New York audiences by a new generation of singers, although she did still continue to sing with the company until 1921.

Last years and death
Destinn returned to Czechoslovakia, where she married Joseph Halsbach, a Czech air-force officer, in 1923. She retired from the stage in 1926 and died from a stroke in České Budějovice, Czechoslovakia, a month before her 52nd birthday. She is interred in the Vyšehrad cemetery in Prague.

Legacy
Her likeness appeared in 1996 on the 2,000 Czech koruna banknote. The main-belt asteroid 6583 Destinn is named after her.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Emmy Destinn


text:
B.F. Goodrich

B.F. Goodrich may refer to:

 * Benjamin Goodrich, a physician and industrialist who founded what became the B.F. Goodrich Company, a tire and rubber manufacturer
 * Goodrich Corporation, an aerospace manufacturer and defense company that is descended from the former B.F. Goodrich Company
 * BFGoodrich, a brand of tires produced and sold by Michelin

title: B.F. Goodrich


text:
The Tao of Pooh

The Tao of Pooh is a 1982 book written by Benjamin Hoff. The book is intended as an introduction to the Eastern belief system of Taoism for Westerners. It allegorically employs the fictional characters of A. A. Milne's Winnie-the-Pooh stories to explain the basic principles of philosophical Taoism. The book was on the New York Times bestseller list for 49 weeks. Hoff later wrote The Te of Piglet, a companion book.

Background
Hoff wrote the book at night and on weekends while working as a tree pruner in the Portland Japanese Garden in Washington Park in Portland, Oregon.

Synopsis
The book starts with a description of the vinegar tasters, which is a painting portraying the three great eastern thinkers, Confucius, the Buddha, and Laozi over a vat of vinegar. Each tasting the vinegar of "life," Confucius finds it sour, the Buddha finds it bitter, but Laozi, the traditional founder of Taoism, finds it satisfying. Then the story unfolds backing up this analogy.

Hoff presents Winnie-the-Pooh and related others from A. A. Milne's stories as characters that interact with him while he writes The Tao of Pooh, but also quotes excerpts of their tales from Milne's actual books Winnie-the-Pooh and The House at Pooh Corner, in order to exemplify his points to the reader and the characters. Hoff uses many of Milne's characters to symbolize ideas that differ from or accentuate Taoist tenets. Winnie-the-Pooh himself, for example, personifies the principles of wu wei, the Taoist concept of "effortless doing," and pu, the concept of being open to, but unburdened by, experience, and it is also a metaphor for natural human nature. In contrast, characters like Owl and Rabbit over-complicate problems, often over-thinking to the point of confusion, and Eeyore pessimistically complains and frets about existence, unable to just be. Hoff regards Pooh's simpleminded nature, unsophisticated worldview and instinctive problem-solving methods as conveniently representative of the Taoist philosophical foundation. The book also incorporates translated excerpts from various prominent Taoist texts, from authors such as Laozi and Zhuang Zhou. However, one poem included in the book attributed to Lu Yu of the Tang Dynasty was actually written by Song Dynasty poet Lu You.

Reception
The book was on the New York Times bestseller list for 49 weeks.

It has been used as required reading in certain college courses.

Copyright recapturing
In April 2018, Hoff wrote a letter to his publisher informing them that he planned to recapture the copyright for The Tao of Pooh on December 15, 2018. He cited revised U.S. copyright law and explained that his reasoning for wanting to recapture the copyright was what he deemed general mistreatment by the publisher and a lack of acknowledgement of his accomplishments by them. He was able to successfully recapture the copyright. Hoff published all of the correspondence about this process on his personal website.

Table of contents

 * 1) Foreword
 * 2) The How of Pooh? (p. 1)
 * 3) The Tao of Who? (p. 9)
 * 4) Spelling Tuesday (p. 23)
 * 5) Cottleston Pie (p. 37)
 * 6) The Pooh Way (p. 67)
 * 7) Bisy Backson (p. 91)
 * 8) That Sort of Bear (p. 115)
 * 9) Nowhere and Nothing (p. 141) Ap
 * 10) The Now of Pooh (p. 153)
 * 11) Backword (p. 157)

title: The Tao of Pooh


text:
Talk:The Tao of Pooh

Is it Tao or even Pooh?
How did the author have the idea to use Winnie the Pooh in this book? And did he have any problems getting the rights to use him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahassan05 (talk • contribs) 07:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Why is this article going completely unchalleneged in terms of scholarship, accuracy and a complete lack of adequate references while so many articles on Wikipedia cannot survive a single day without being put up for deletion on the basis of these issues?... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.91.158 (talk) 20:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

An interesting question. Basically, there are different standards for different subjects. To be blunt, it's not reasonable to expect a video game aimed at six year olds, or a bubblegum rock record to receive the same intellectual interest as particle physics, philosophy, or even sports. One of the common criticisms of Wikipedia, and one of the reasons the founder views it in some way as being a failure, is that people with no knowledge or qualifications are able to express themselves without appropriate supervision. 24.130.13.180 (talk) 15:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Amen to that. Anybody who takes this interpretation of these religions seriously will be in trouble. Somebody noted above that the Wikipedia article is almost identical to passages in "The Tao of Pooh," a harmless bit of fluff beloved by high school students and freshmen, whose best parts are the nostalgic drawings from "Winnie the Pooh." (Are there no copyright laws?) Its author summarizes Tao at one point: "Life is fun." The kindest interpretation would be to relabel the book as Young Adult, not simply inaccurate. Hoff seems a harmless person on his website. But as someone has said, "The book is bad Tao, and bad Pooh." There was, indeed, a professor at my school, Mr. Popularity, who, to our embarrassment, assigned the book to students taking their one required liberal arts course. So the article's remark about it being assigned in a genuine college is accurate. His defense was that our current students probably hadn't read a "chapter book" except for Harry Potter, and now some of them might be intrigued about Asian philosophy. Yes, but if you have to rewrite Taoism into "Life is fun' to attract them, is that really getting them interested in Asian philosophy? Profhum (talk) 06:56, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I am going to update the article with an update about the author's issues with his publisher and eventually taking back the copyright for the book from the publisher which he addresses on his website Agn946 (talk) 17:05, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Meaning?
Quite apart from the fact that this use of "actual" is inappropriate in tone for an encyclopedia, whatever is meant by "a story ..., which is an actual painting..."? --Pfold (talk) 10:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Nostalgia
I remember my dad reading this to me around the age of ten. A bit odd for a bedtime story, but I liked it.

I'll have to go back and read through the book myself one of these days. Maybe I'll understand more of it this time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.84.90 (talk) 06:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources for being 49 weeks in the New York Times bestseller list
There is a text in the article saying that book was in the New York Times bestseller list for 49 weeks (almost a year): The book was on the New York Times bestseller list for 49 weeks

I marked this text with, because I'm unable to find any records in the archive of list (according to  New York Times bestseller list the archive is at http://www.hawes.com/pastlist.htm from 1950 to 2012). I used google queries https://www.google.com/search?q=site:hawes.com+tao+of+pooh and https://www.google.com/search?q=site:hawes.com+Benjamin+Hoff - there are 40 records found for " THE TE OF PIGLET"; but nothing about "The Tao..". I think, additional sources and verification is needed. `a5b (talk) 22:22, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:The Tao of Pooh


text:
List of archaeological sites by continent and age

This list of archaeological sites is sorted by continent and then by the age of the site. For one sorted by country, see the list of archaeological sites by country.

Lower

 * Azykh, Azerbaijan
 * Barda Balka, Iraq
 * Berekhat Ram, Israel
 * Bnot Ya'akob Bridge, Israel
 * Darband Cave, Iran
 * Dmanisi, Georgia
 * Ganj Par, Iran
 * Kashafrud, Iran
 * Kudaro, Georgia
 * Satanidar, Armenia
 * Shiwatoo, Iran
 * Soanian, India
 * Attirampakkam, India

 * Ubeidiya, Israel
 * Zhoukoudian, China

Middle

 * Dederiyeh Cave, Syria
 * Amud Cave, Israel
 * Shanidar, Iraq
 * Bisitun, Iran
 * Warwasi, Iran
 * Kiaram, Iran
 * Qaleh Bozi, Iran
 * Attirampakkam, India
 * Dawara, Syria
 * Karain, Turkey

Upper

 * Magura Cave, Bulgaria
 * Kandivili, India
 * Ksar Akil, Lebanon
 * Rock Shelters of Bhimbetka, India
 * Shanidar, Iraq
 * Yafteh, Iran

Mesolithic

 * Abu Hureyra, Syria
 * Anjiri, Iran
 * Dar Mar, Iran
 * Fukui cave, Japan
 * Ghar-e Khar, Iran
 * Senpukuji Cave, Japan
 * Warwasi, Iran
 * Yawan, Iran
 * Zarzi, Iraq

Neolithic

 * Hambantota, Sri Lanka
 * Ali Kosh, Iran
 * Atlit Yam, Israel
 * Asiab, Iran
 * Çatalhöyük, Turkey
 * Sanganakallu, India
 * Choqa Golan, Iran
 * Ganj Dareh, Iran
 * Göbekli Tepe, Turkey
 * Guran, Iran
 * Jhusi, India
 * Paiyampalli, India
 * Jarmo, Iraq
 * Jericho, Palestine
 * Karahan Tepe, Turkey
 * Nevali Çori, Turkey
 * Mehrgarh, Pakistan
 * Niumatou Site, Taiwan
 * Tepe Sarab, Iran

Bronze Age

 * Areni cave, Armenia
 * Beycesultan, Turkey
 * Dholavira, India
 * Lothal, India
 * Troy, Turkey
 * Kalibangan, India
 * Ugarit, Syria
 * Uluburun, Turkey
 * Mohenjo Daro, Pakistan
 * Harappa, Pakistan
 * Hirbemerdon Tepe, Turkey
 * Kanmer, India
 * Zorats Karer, Armenia
 * Rehman Dheri, Pakistan
 * Rakhigarhi, India
 * Amri, Pakistan
 * Nausharo, Pakistan

Iron Age

 * Ahichatra, India
 * Hattusa, Turkey
 * Mathura, India
 * Keeladi, India
 * Nineveh, Iraq
 * Hassanlu, Iran
 * Zywieh, Iran
 * Bukan, Iran
 * Taite, Syria
 * Mesha Stele, Israel
 * Tel Dan Stele, Israel
 * Erebuni, Armenia

Greek and Roman Period

 * Halicarnassos, Turkey
 * Knidos, Turkey
 * Miletus, Turkey
 * Myra, Turkey
 * Salamis, Cyprus

Pre-Palaeolithic (before stone tools)

 * Laetoli, Tanzania (Pliocene)
 * Hadar, Ethiopia

Lower Palaeolithic

 * Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania, lower Palaeolithic, Oldowan
 * Kalambo Falls

Middle Palaeolithic

 * Cango Caves, South Africa, Middle Paleolithic
 * Klasies River Caves, South Africa, Middle Paleolithic
 * Hoedjiespunt, South Africa, Middle Pleistocene
 * Omo, Ethiopia

Upper Palaeolithic

 * Blombos Cave, South Africa, Upper Paleolithic
 * Taforalt, Morocco
 * Sibudu Cave South Africa, Upper Paleolithic

Iron Bronze Age

 * Carthage, Tunisia (Phoenician)
 * Cyrene, Libya

Greek and Roman Period

 * Volubilis, Morocco

11th to 15th centuries

 * Mifsas Bahri, Ethiopia
 * Great Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe

Lithic/Paleoindian (before 8000 BCE)

 * Pikimachay, Peru
 * Cueva de las Manos, Argentina
 * Cuz Cuz, Chile
 * Bandelier National Monument, New Mexico, United States
 * Meadowcroft Rock Shelter, Pennsylvania, United States
 * Monte Verde, Chile
 * Pilauco Bajo, Chile
 * St. Mary Reservoir, Alberta, Canada
 * El Abra, Colombia
 * Tequendama, Colombia

Archaic (8000–1000 BCE)

 * Chan-Chan, Chile
 * Guitarrero Cave, Peru
 * Cuz Cuz, Chile
 * Toquepala Caves, Peru
 * Jisk'a Iru Muqu, Río Ilave, Peru
 * Caral, Lima, Peru
 * Garagay, Lima, Peru
 * Meadowcroft Rock Shelter, Pennsylvania, United States
 * Tiawanaku, Bolivia
 * Aguazuque, Colombia
 * Checua, Colombia
 * Watson Brake, Louisiana, United States
 * Poverty Point, Louisiana, United States
 * Jeffers Petroglyphs, Minnesota, United States
 * Blood Run Site, Iowa, United States

Formative (1000 BCE–250/500 CE)

 * Acaray, Huaura River, Peru
 * Altar de Sacrificios, Guatemala
 * Cara Sucia, El Salvador
 * Chaco Culture National Historical Park, New Mexico, United States
 * Chiripa, Bolivia
 * Cuello, Belize
 * Cuz Cuz, Chile
 * El Mirador, Guatemala
 * La Venta, Mexico
 * Nakbe, Guatemala
 * El Tintal, Guatemala
 * Quelepa, El Salvador
 * Snaketown, Arizona, United States
 * Tiawanaku, Bolivia
 * Takalik Abaj, Guatemala
 * Tulor, Chile
 * Newark Earthworks, Ohio, United States
 * Serpent Mound, Ohio, United States

Classic (250/500–1200 CE)

 * Acaray, Huaura River, Peru
 * Aguateca, Guatemala
 * Bandelier National Monument, New Mexico, United States
 * Bonampak, Mexico
 * Cahokia, Illinois, United States
 * Calakmul, Mexico
 * Cancuén, Guatemala
 * Cara Sucia, El Salvador
 * Chichen Itza, Mexico
 * Chiripa, Bolivia
 * Copán, Honduras
 * Cuz Cuz, Chile
 * Dos Pilas, Guatemala
 * El Tajín, Mexico
 * Ixlu, Guatemala
 * Kaminaljuyu, Guatemala
 * Machaquila, Guatemala
 * Monte Albán, Mexico
 * Motul de San José, Guatemala
 * Palenque, Mexico
 * Pukara de Quitor, Chile
 * Pucará de Tilcara, Argentina
 * Quelepa, El Salvador
 * Quiriguá, Guatemala
 * Seibal, Guatemala
 * Snaketown, Arizona, United States
 * Takalik Abaj, Guatemala
 * Tamarindito, Guatemala
 * Teotihuacan, Mexico
 * Tiawanaku, Bolivia
 * Tikal, Guatemala
 * Toniná, Mexico
 * Tulor, Chile
 * Uaxactun, Guatemala
 * Yaxchilan, Mexico
 * Yaxha, Guatemala
 * Zaculeu
 * Chaco Culture National Historical Park, New Mexico, United States
 * Fort Ancient site, Ohio, United States
 * Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump, Alberta

Post-Classic (1200–1900 CE)

 * Acaray, Huaura River, Peru
 * Cahokia, Illinois, United States
 * Cuz Cuz, Chile
 * Gila Cliff Dwellings National Monument, New Mexico, USA
 * Huaca de Chena, Chile
 * Inkallaqta, Bolivia
 * Iximche, Guatemala
 * Machu Picchu, Peru
 * Mixco Viejo, Guatemala
 * Mocha Island, Chile
 * Pucara del Cerro La Muralla, Chile
 * Pukara de La Compañia, Chile
 * Q'umarkaj, Guatemala
 * Santa Cecilia Acatitlan, Mexico
 * Snaketown, Arizona, USA
 * Tenayuca, Mexico
 * Tenochtitlan, Mexico
 * Tlatelolco, Mexico
 * Topoxte, Guatemala
 * Yagul, Mexico
 * Zaculeu, Guatemala

Palaeolithic

 * Lake Mungo
 * Ngarrabullgan

Classical Period

 * Maungarei / Mount Wellington, New Zealand
 * Rapa Nui, (Rano Raraku, Orongo & Anakena) Chile
 * Nan Madol

Lower

 * Kozarnika, Bulgaria
 * Barnfield Pit, Kent, Great Britain
 * Bilzingsleben, Thuringia, Germany. Clactonian
 * Boxgrove, East Sussex, Great Britain.
 * Clacton-on-Sea, Great Britain. Clactonian
 * Ca’ Belvedere, Forlì, Italy
 * Pineta, Isernia, Italy
 * Vértesszőlős, Hungary

Middle

 * Băile Herculane, Romania, middle Palaeolithic as well as Mesolithic
 * Creswell Crags, Great Britain
 * Grotta di Nùrighe, Cheremule, Italy
 * Königsaue, Germany
 * Krapina Neanderthal Site, Croatia
 * Le Moustier, France, Mousterian
 * Neanderthal, Germany, Neandertal

Upper

 * Altamira, Cantabria, Spain
 * Aurignac, Haute Garonne, France, Aurignacian
 * Châtelperron, central and south western France, Châtelperronian
 * Chauvet Cave, southern France, Aurignacian
 * Côa Valley Paleolithic Art, northeastern Portugal
 * Dolni Vestonice, Gravettian, Moravia
 * Grotta Corbeddu, Oliena, Italy
 * Ignateva Cave, South Urals, Russia
 * La Gravette, Dordogne, France, Gravettian
 * La Madeleine, Dordogne, France, Magdalenian
 * Lascaux, Dordogne, France, Magdalenian
 * Meiendorf, northern Germany, Hamburgian Culture
 * Mladec, Moravia, Aurignacian
 * Paviland Caves, Great Britain, Wales, Aurignacian
 * Solutré, eastern France, Solutrean

Mesolithic

 * Alby, Sweden
 * Arbus, Sardinia, Italy
 * Astuvansalmi, Finland
 * Belbaşı, Turkey
 * Bouldnor Cliff Mesolithic Village, United Kingdom
 * Cramond, United Kingdom
 * Franchthi, Greece
 * Friesack, Germany, Brandenburg
 * Grotta di Su Coloru, Laerru, Italy
 * Hohen Viecheln, Germany, Mecklenburg
 * Howick house, United Kingdom
 * Pulli settlement, Estonia
 * Lepenski Vir, Serbia
 * Star Carr and Star Carr house, United Kingdom
 * Mount Sandal Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
 * Val Camonica, Brescia, Italy
 * Ythan Estuary, Sands of Forvie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Neolithic

 * Almendres Cromlech, Portugal
 * Ardgroom, Ireland
 * Avebury, Britain
 * Bylany, Czech Republic
 * Carnac stones, France
 * Carrigagulla, Ireland
 * Çatalhöyük, Turkey
 * Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, Moldova, Romania, Ukraine
 * Durankulak (archaeological site), Bulgaria
 * Glantane east, Ireland
 * Goseck Germany
 * Grimes Graves, Britain
 * Karanovo culture, Bulgaria
 * Knocknakilla, Ireland
 * La Hoguette, France
 * Maeshowe Britain
 * Maiden Castle Britain
 * Maumbury Rings, Britain
 * Medway Megaliths, Britain
 * Fairy Toot at Nempnett Thrubwell, Britain
 * Necropolis of Anghelu Ruju, Italy
 * Necropolis of Li Muri, Italy
 * Newgrange, Ireland
 * Parc Cwm long cairn, Britain
 * Ring of Brodgar Britain
 * St Lythans burial chamber, Britain
 * Sassi of Materna, Italy
 * Silbury Hill, Britain
 * Skara Brae, Britain
 * Stanton Drew, Britain
 * Stonehenge, Britain
 * Pfahlbau Museum Unteruhldingen Germany
 * Varna culture
 * Windmill Hill Britain
 * West Kennet Long Barrow, Britain
 * Zauschwitz, Germany

Chalcolithic and Bronze Age

 * Biskupin Poland
 * Ezero culture, Bulgaria
 * Flag Fen, Britain
 * Lerna, Greece
 * Knossos, Greece
 * Mycenae, Greece
 * Nebra, Germany
 * Necropolis of Fossa, Italy
 * Necropolis of Pantalica, Italy
 * Nola-Croce del Papa, Italy
 * Palmi, Italy
 * Perperikon, Bulgaria
 * Siedlung Forschner, Germany
 * Su Nuraxi di Barumini, Italy
 * Tiryns, Greece
 * Turuñuelo, Spain
 * Únětice, Czech Republic
 * Varna Necropolis, Bulgaria
 * Tell Yunatsite, Bulgaria
 * Zug-Sumpf, Switzerland

Iron Age, Classical Antiquity, Hellenistic period, Early Greco-Roman Period and Roman Period

 * Abritus, Bulgaria
 * Agrigento, Italy
 * Ambresbury Banks, Britain
 * Armira (villa), Bulgaria
 * Aquae Calidae, Bulgaria
 * Castra Martis, Bulgaria
 * Dionysopolis, Bulgaria
 * Bibracte, France
 * Biskupin, Poland
 * Chew Stoke (Romano-Celtic Temple), Britain
 * Chysauster, Britain
 * Glanum (near Saint-Rémy-de-Provence), France
 * Inchtuthil, Britain
 * Danebury, Britain
 * Develtos, Bulgaria
 * Diocletianopolis (modern Hisarya), Bulgaria
 * Dover Castle, Britain
 * Dover painted house, Britain
 * Forum Romanum, Italy
 * Gene fornby, Sweden
 * Heraclea Sintica, Bulgaria
 * Heuneburg, Germany
 * Hirschlanden, Germany
 * Kabyle, Bulgaria
 * Mont Vully, Switzerland
 * Maiden Castle, Britain
 * Marcianopolis, Bulgaria
 * Mezek, Bulgaria
 * Nesebar, Bulgaria
 * Nicopolis ad Istrum, Bulgaria
 * Nicopolis ad Nestum, Bulgaria
 * Novae
 * Odessus, modern Varna, Bulgaria
 * Oescus, Bulgaria
 * Olympia, Greece
 * Oppidum of Manching, Germany
 * Paestum, Italy
 * Philippopolis, modern Plovdiv, Bulgaria
 * Pistiros, Bulgaria
 * Pompeii, Italy
 * Saalburg, Germany
 * Salami Island, Greece
 * Serdica, modern Sofia, Bulgaria
 * Seuthopolis, Bulgaria
 * Silistra Roman Tomb, Bulgaria
 * Sozopol, Bulgaria
 * Sparta, Greece
 * Stara Zagora - Roman ruins of Augusta Trayana, Bulgaria
 * Starosel, Bulgaria
 * Storgosia, Bulgaria
 * Syracuse, Italy
 * Tatul, Bulgaria
 * La Tene, Switzerland
 * Thracian Tomb of Kazanlak, Bulgaria
 * Thracian Tomb of Sveshtari, Bulgaria
 * Thracian tomb of Aleksandrovo, Bulgaria
 * Tomb of Pomorie, Bulgaria
 * Trophaeum Traiani, Romania
 * Tróia, Portugal
 * Tusculum, Italy
 * Üllő5, Hungary
 * Verulamium, Britain
 * Vix and Mont Lassois, France

Early Medieval

 * Adelsö, Sweden
 * Birka, Sweden
 * Gamla Uppsala, Sweden
 * Helgö, Sweden
 * Ivanovo rock-hewn churches, Bulgaria
 * Jellinge, Denmark
 * Kaliakra cape, Bulgaria
 * Madara Rider, Bulgaria
 * Nydam, Denmark
 * Oseberg ship, Norway
 * Pliska, Bulgaria
 * Preslav, Bulgaria
 * South Cadbury, Britain
 * Sutton Hoo, Britain
 * Thorsberg, Denmark
 * Valsgärde, Sweden
 * Vendel, Sweden


text:
Talk:List of archaeological sites by continent and age

sorry, already exists.
I'll try to shift the material. --Yak 15:27, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)

Flawed article
This article seems flawed and is misleading. The "ages" that are categorised in this article are not really compatible with each other. Specifically speaking, in the case of Oceania, ages for two completely different culture chronologies are being used. "Palaeolithic" in Australia is different from that in New Zealand, and Australia doesn't even have a "Classical Period". Aggelophoros 11:11, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

http://www.aee.gr/english/6petrlona/exc_history/exc_history.html http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9059489/Petralona-skull http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%86%CF%81%CE%B7%CF%82_%CE%A0%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%8C%CF%82 (in greek) http://www.willighp.de/evo/thema/funde/hh_petralona.php?PHPSESSID=d0f9d8a6dcbd0bd4d3e1af2c52dc88df (in German) http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/Eng/THE_HELLENIC_PREHISTORY.html Take a look at Petralona man in Chalkidiki / Greece

Yes, I agree with the previous post. Lumping all of the sites for the Americas under a single category "Neolithic" fails to do justice to the range of cultural variability expressed by Meadowcroft and Machu Picchu. They are both technically neolithic, but Meadowcroft is conservatively considered a terminal Pleistocene site and Machu Picchu is part of the Inca Empire. Would it be alright to break up the Americas into smaller regional divisions, and use locally specific terms? I have to say that even then, categorical treatment of temporal periods becomes complicated. For example, the Formative Period in the northern Titicaca Basin probably begins 500 years before it does in the more arid southern basin. As structured, this page can't escape these kinds of kinds of classificatory issues: split to the point of confusion, or lump and obscure local variation. I can work on the Americas, but would like to hear people's thinking on the enterprise in general. --Nathancraig 02:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Why wasn't Blackwater Draw Locality #1 at Clovis, New Mexico listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.70.135.142 (talk) 21:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Map
A really nice addition (one that would perhaps take it out of the "list quality" category to s.t. better) would be a world map, or if that scale is too small, then a by-continent map. It could use different colors or symbols for different ages. That said, I'm no map-maker... Mcswell (talk) 15:06, 14 April 2019 (UTC)


text:
Greyfriars School

Greyfriars School is a fictional English public school used as a setting in the long-running series of stories by the writer Charles Hamilton, who wrote under the pen-name of Frank Richards. Although the stories are focused on the Remove (or lower fourth form), whose most famous pupil was Billy Bunter, other characters also featured on a regular basis.

Time is frozen in the Greyfriars stories; although the reader sees the passing of the seasons, the characters' ages do not change and they remain in the same year groups.

From 1908 to 1940, the stories appeared in The Magnet, in a total of 1,683 weekly issues. After 1940, the stories continued to appear in book form until Hamilton's death in 1961. Billy Bunter of Greyfriars School was broadcast as a BBC television series from 19 February 1951 to 22 July 1961. A comic strip was published in Knockout (drawn by Frank Minnitt) from 1939 to 1958, and then drawn by various other artists until Knockout merged with Valiant, in which comic strips continued to appear from 23 February 1963 to 16 October 1976.

Location
Greyfriars School is in the county of Kent, southeast England. The school lies on the fictional river Sark, upstream of the nearby village of Friardale and downstream of the market town of Courtfield. It is near the coast: the fishing village of Pegg is described as being within a mile (1.6 km). There are two other public schools nearby, Cliff House girls school and Highcliffe. Farther away are the towns of Lantham and Wapshott.

Organisation
The school consists of seven forms, loosely based on age groups. Each form has its own Form Master, who takes the majority of the lessons. Specialist masters are used for French, sports and mathematics.

The Headmaster appoints a Head Prefect, who is responsible for leading the other Prefects and supporting the Headmaster in matters of school discipline. There is also a School Captain, who is head of school games. The School Captain is elected by a democratic vote of all members of the school. In the great majority of the stories, both positions were held by George Bernard Wingate. Similarly, each Form has a Head Boy, appointed by the Form Master and a Form Captain, elected by the Form.

Unusually, both in terms of real-life public schools and their fictional counterparts, Greyfriars School does not have a house system. In the early Magnet stories, this created a problem for the author in that inter-house rivalries are a useful source of plot conflicts in many fictional school stories. To compensate for this, Frank Richards created three separate forms of similar age groups at Greyfriars (the Lower Fourth, the Fourth and the Upper Fourth) as well as rival characters in the neighbouring Highcliffe School. As the stories developed, the time would come when plot conflicts would arise naturally from the minutely detailed characters that were fleshed out over the years.

The school is supervised by a Board of Governors, whose members include the short-tempered local landowner, Sir Hilton Popper, as well as Colonel Wharton and Major Cherry, both relatives of prominent characters in the Greyfriars Remove (Lower Fourth) form.

Boys spend most of the day in class, or in their spare time either in a common room, on the sports fields, or in shared studies; they sleep in shared dormitories. Breakfast and lunch are taken communally. A modest high tea in hall is also provided (disparagingly known as "doorsteps and dishwater"), but most of the boys prefer to make their own arrangements in their studies, funds permitting.

Ethos
While the masters naturally emphasise scholastic matters, for the pupils (and readership) it is physical activities that are at the heart of the school's ethos. Prowess at sports is the best route to popularity and respect, while over-attainment at study is something of lesser, if not negative, importance. Disputes are often settled by fights, with the invariable, if unrealistic, outcome that virtue triumphs over vice. Corporal punishment is widely used by the masters and by the Sixth Form prefects. The ultimate punishment, short of expulsion, is a birching administered by the saintly headmaster, Dr Locke. Lesser punishments are lines (copying out a hundred lines from a Latin text by the classical author Virgil), or for really serious infractions among the older forms a "book" (copying out a complete Latin text by Virgil, which might be up to 952 lines). There is also a Punishment Room ("Punny") which, in rare and particularly serious cases, may be used to keep an offender in solitary confinement for a number of days.

Style and themes
Hamilton's writing style has been compared with that of his contemporary P G Wodehouse. A light and distinctive prose style combines with a strong comedic element and a large ensemble of strongly-drawn characters. The exceptional volume of material produced by Hamilton over his writing career allowed both characters and locations to be developed in great depth.

Observations of contemporary life and satire are found in Hamilton's work, and he frequently uses his characters as mouthpieces to make telling ironic points:

"The old bounder's unemployed,' said Bunter. 'Fairly up against it, you know. Can't get a job. My opinion is they won't work. I've heard my pater say so. I remember, last evening of the holidays, seeing my pater sitting in his armchair, sipping his port, and saying it was all due to slacking and drink."

In particular, he had little respect for professions or pretensions, and politicians, lawyers and stockbrokers are regularly at the sharp end of his cynical prose.

Time is frozen in the Greyfriars stories; although the reader sees the passing of the seasons, the characters' ages do not change and the students remain in the same year groups.

The style of the stories evolved over the years. For the first decade, the stories tended to be complete episodes. This was also a development period in which the author established his style. During the 1920s, the format gradually changed to serials; this was also a period of character development in which many of the large cast of characters were given their own storylines in turn. Many commentators agree that the "golden age" of Greyfriars stories was in the period 1930 to 1934, when the standard of plotlines and mellow humour reached its peak; while after 1934, the high standard of plot construction continued, but plots and themes were increasingly repeated.

Hamilton's work has attracted criticism, most notably from George Orwell in a 1940 essay published in Horizon magazine. Orwell described Hamilton's style as easily imitated (to facilitate substitute writers), plagiarist, and largely comprising shallow right wing content. He also expressed incredulity that stories spanning 30 years could have been authored by the same individual. The key passage in his essay, which was to provoke a strong response from Hamilton, is reproduced below.

"The year is 1910, or 1940, it is all the same. You are at Greyfriars. A rosy-cheeked boy of fourteen in posh tailor-made clothes is sitting down to tea in your study on the Remove passage, after an exciting game of football which was won by an odd goal in the last half-minute. There is a cosy fire in your study; outside the wind is whistling, the ivy clusters thickly round the old grey stone, the King is on his throne, and the pound is worth a pound. Over in Europe the comic foreigners are jabbering and gesticulating; but the grim grey battleships of the British Fleet are steaming up the Channel, and at the outposts of Empire the monocled Englishmen are holding the niggers at bay. Lord Mauleverer has just got another fiver and we are settling down to a tremendous tea of sausages, sardines, crumpets, potted meat, jam and doughnuts. After tea, we shall sit round the study fire having a good laugh at Billy Bunter and discussing the team for next week's match against Rookwood. Everything is safe, solid and unquestionable. Everything will be the same for ever and ever."

Hamilton's response to this criticism was presented in an article published in the same magazine shortly afterwards, in which he rebutted each of Orwell's points.

Other commentators have challenged the view that Hamilton's work can be narrowly categorised as right wing, drawing attention to examples of his output that demonstrate strong independent views. Over the years, Hamilton was ever ready to air unfashionable causes to his young audience, but did so in a way that did not attract controversy or jeopardise publication of his stories. Anti-capitalism, early Socialism, the Suffragette movement and conscientious objectors during World War I all received sympathetic treatment in Hamilton's work. In an age when the word "nigger" was not yet regarded in the same pejorative sense that applies today, Hamilton's work consistently emphasised the offensive nature of the term from as early as 1922; and his output even included unfashionable anti-British sentiments in stories set against the background of imperial India.

Main recurring characters
Although the full ensemble of recurring characters in the Greyfriars world is in the hundreds, a smaller group of fewer than 20 recurring characters, along with guest characters, drive the majority of the stories. Each of the following characters appears in more than 800 Magnet stories (approximately half of the total of 1,683).

Lower Fourth Form (Remove)
The main characters in the stories are to be found in the Lower Fourth Form, known as the Remove.
 * William George Bunter – known as Billy Bunter, is the best known character in the stories. He was initially conceived as a minor character, but developed into the central character of the stories as his comic potential was realised. His big round spectacles and rolling gait earned him the nickname the "'Owl of the Remove'".  Foolish, greedy, deceitful, comically conceited, but essentially harmless.   Among his few virtues are an occasional tendency to display courage for the sake of others (invariably while being terrified himself); a genuine love and concern for his mother;  and, oddly enough, generosity, on the rare occasions when he is in possession of food or cash. Appears in 1,670 stories and introduced in Magnet No. 1 The Making of Harry Wharton (15 February 1908).
 *  The Famous Five  – a quintet of friends comprising  Harry Wharton  (Remove Head Boy and Form Captain), his closest friend  Frank Nugent , cheery and boisterous  Bob Cherry , Indian Prince  Hurree Jamset Ram Singh  and plain-speaking  Johnny Bull  from Yorkshire. All strong sportsmen, they are the de facto leaders of the Greyfriars Remove. Wharton and Nugent were both introduced in Magnet No. 1 The Making of Harry Wharton (15 February 1908) and are the only two characters to appear in all 1,683 Magnet stories; while Cherry was introduced in Magnet No. 2 The Taming of Harry (22 February 1908) and appears in 1,682 Magnet stories.
 * Percival Bolsover - originally introduced as an unpleasant bully, though has calmed over time. Now shares a study with French junior Napoleon Dupont, his one true friend, whom he protects from bullying. Appears in 856 stories and first introduced in Magnet No.  182 The Cock of the Walk (5 August 1911).
 * Peter Hazeldene - weak and vacillating, earning him the early nickname of "Vaseline". Later known simply as "Hazel". His sister is schoolgirl Marjorie Hazeldene, whose popularity among many Greyfriars boys leads them to show more patience towards her brother than he perhaps deserves. Appears in 834 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 2 The Taming of Harry (22 February 1908).
 * Lord Mauleverer – outwardly, a languid aristocratic millionaire with a sleepy demeanour. But there are hidden depths to “Mauly” - his keen judgement of human character and simple faith in human nature have led him more than once to show loyalty to friends in adverse circumstances.  On such occasions he reveals an astute mind and considerable leadership qualities, along with a talent for boxing that is a match for anyone in the form. Appears in 922 stories and first introduced in Magnet No.  184 The Schoolboy Millionaire (19 August 1911).
 * Harold Skinner – one of the most unpleasant characters at Greyfriars – cowardly, malicious and with unwholesome vices such as smoking and gambling. The perpetrator of cruelly accurate cartoons and malicious practical jokes. Appears in 1,232 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 1 The Making of Harry Wharton (15 February 1908).
 * Sidney James Snoop - a weak character, very much under Skinner's unhealthy influence. Appears in 887 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 45 A Lad from Lancashire (19 December 1908).
 * Peter Hastings Todd – a tall, thin, budding lawyer who is the son of a Clerkenwell solicitor. Devotes much of his time to improving Bunter: a futile, fruitless and frustrating occupation. Appears in 1,039 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 205 The Duffer's Double (13 January 1912).
 * Herbert Tudor Vernon-Smith– a charismatic but reckless and quick-tempered character who features prominently in the stories. A natural leader, both on and off the sports field, but with a hard and selfish streak. Has too much money, thanks to the indulgence of his millionaire father, which allows him to follow a rebellious lifestyle that has earned him the nickname "The Bounder".  Much improved by his friendship with Tom Redwing who was introduced in 1918. Appears in 1,279 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 119 The Bounder of Greyfriars (21 May 1910).

Other Greyfriars characters

 * The Reverend Dr. Herbert Henry Locke - venerable Headmaster of Greyfriars School. Wise, respected, but sometimes unworldly. Appears in 970 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 1 The Making of Harry Wharton (15 February 1908).
 * Horace Coker - clumsy, loud and opinionated Fifth Former. Convinced of his intellectual superiority and sporting prowess, an opinion that is strangely shared by nobody except his adoring Aunt Judy, who keeps him well supplied with cash and food hampers. Appears in 882 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 143 The Head of Study 14 (5 November 1910).
 * Henry Samuel Quelch - the Remove Form Master, and as such the most prominent Master in the Greyfriars stories. A scholarly gentleman, a confirmed bachelor, and a man of strong character respected by the boys in his Form. A strict disciplinarian and frequently described as a beast, but a just beast. A keen walker, spends much of his spare time working on his monumental work, The History of Greyfriars. Appears in 1,383 stories and first introduced in Magnet No.1 The Making of Harry Wharton (15 February 1908).
 * Paul Pontifex Prout - portly Form Master of the Fifth Form, and referred to by them as "Old Pompous". Prout is inclined to long-winded reminiscences of his experiences shooting bears and buffaloes in the Rocky Mountains of Canada, but he is essentially good-hearted. Attempts to foster popularity with his Form by dropping in unexpectedly to the Fifth Form Games Room. Among his pupils is Horace Coker, with whom he is often at odds. Appears in 626 stories and first introduced in Magnet No. 38 The Cheerful Chinee (31 October 1908).
 * George Wingate - popular and highly respected Greyfriars Head Prefect and School Captain. Appears in 1,112 stories and first introduced in Magnet No.1 The Making of Harry Wharton (15 February 1908).

Storylines
The extraordinary volume of output of Greyfriars stories inevitably meant that plotlines and themes were repeated, though usually involving different characters and novel twists. In the early years, this often meant stories that were resolved across 1–2 issues; but by the early 1930s a series would typically take 8–12 weekly issues to play out.

Characters with double lives
An oft-repeated theme involves the arrival of a new character at the school who turns out to be not quite what he seems. Dick Lancaster joins the Greyfriars Sixth form in 1931 (Magnets Nos. 1209 to 1219) and immediately becomes one of the most popular men in the school: handsome, easy going and a fine cricketer. Unknown to his schoolfellows though, he is also the “Wizard” – a member of a criminal gang of burglars who is particularly skilled at safe-cracking.

Greyfriars turns out to be highly popular as a base for disguised burglars. The “Courtfield Cracksman” (Magnets Nos. 1138 to 1151) conceals himself by finding employment on the Greyfriars staff in 1930; as does “Jimmy the One” (Magnets Nos.1247 to 1255) in 1931, and “Slim Jim” (Magnets Nos. 1660 to 1675) in 1939. In two of these cases Herbert Vernon-Smith has his suspicions – in one case he is proved right, and ends up in danger as a result; in the other case he is disastrously wrong, suspecting the undercover detective assigned to the case and befriending the real villain.

Rivals for a fortune
A variation on the former theme was the arrival of a new boy who turns out to be the secret enemy of an established Greyfriars character. Usually this involved a rivalry over an inheritance. An early example was the “Da Costa” series of 1928 (Magnets Nos. 1059 to 1067), when new arrival Arthur Da Costa attempts to disgrace Harry Wharton in an attempt to disinherit him of a large fortune. This plotline was repeated a number of times.

Coker's younger cousin, Edgar Caffyn, one of the most unpleasant characters ever to appear in the stories, arrives at the school in 1935 (Magnets Nos. 1404 to 1412) with the intention of getting Coker expelled and replacing him as Aunt Judy's heir. It is Billy Bunter's turn in 1938, when his relation Arthur Carter, having been expelled from his previous school, has been disinherited by a wealthy uncle. He comes to Greyfriars with the intention of disgracing Bunter, his uncle's new adopted heir (Magnets Nos. 1561 to 1572). In all of these storylines, the rascally newcomer is aided and abetted by an even more rascally lawyer.

Finally, in 1939, Herbert Vernon-Smith's relative Bertie Vernon arrives at the school. Vernon is startlingly similar to Vernon-Smith in appearance, which allows a number of dramatic situations to develop before Vernon's real purpose in coming to Greyfriars is revealed.

Doppelgängers
Many storylines have involved the arrival at Greyfriars of a relative who bears a startling resemblance to an existing character. Usually, the two doppelgängers are of opposite character types, and are continuously mistaken for each other, enabling a number of plot conflicts to develop. As well as the Bertie Vernon series, mentioned above, other doppelgängers have included Billy Bunter's cousin Wally, Peter Todd's cousin Alonzo and Harry Wharton's relative Ralph Stacey (Magnets Nos. 1422 to 1433). The Stacey series, in particular, is rated by many commentators as being among the finest Greyfriars series written by Hamilton.

The rebellious Remove
The Remove included a number of naturally rebellious characters and several plotlines exploited this to the full. A typical storyline would involve an act of injustice or tyranny resulting in the juniors rising up in open rebellion against authority.

One of the first examples was the "Judge Jeffreys" series of 1917 (Magnets Nos. 501 to 505), in which a new head master, Mr Jeffreys, institutes a severe punishment regime, causing the Remove to lead a rebellion against his rule that ends in Mr Jeffreys being driven out by the whole school.

The “High Oaks Rebellion” series of 1928 (Magnets Nos. 1043 to 1049) sees Mr Quelch, the Remove Master, unjustly dismissed from the school through a malicious trick by Skinner. Led and financed by Lord Mauleverer, the Remove walk out of Greyfriars, set up their own school at High Oaks and defend it against a number of attempts to forcibly return them to Greyfriars.

The "Brander" series, from 1930 (Magnets Nos. 1169 to 1174) is a particularly notable example of this story type. Newcomer Otto van Tromp grievously injures Dr. Locke in an unscrupulous scheme to install his uncle, Mr. Brander, as the new headmaster of Greyfriars. In this, the pair enlist the assistance of the debt-laden chairman of the Greyfriars governors, Sir Hilton Popper, who owes money to Brander. Van Tromp becomes head prefect and abuses his position to such an extent that the Remove rise up in open rebellion and barricade themselves in the Remove passage. They are eventually joined by characters from other forms in the school, including fifth formers and prefects. Mr. Quelch, meanwhile, is dismissed by Brander, but invokes the school statutes that allow a dismissed master of long standing to remain at the school until his appeal is heard by the governors.

In 1934, Billy Bunter is expelled after being unjustly blamed for drenching Mr Prout in ink (Magnets Nos. 1374 to 1382). The Remove rise up in his support and build a fortified camp on Popper Island, which they successfully defend against a number of assaults by the prefects and other seniors.

Later in the same year, Headmaster Dr Locke and several senior prefects are hospitalised following a motor accident. Fifth form master Mr Prout takes over as temporary headmaster and appoints the bullying Gerald Loder as Head Prefect; as a result, a tyrannical regime develops at the school. Prompted by Vernon-Smith, the juniors form a secret society, the Secret Seven, to fight back. Although the Secret Seven has over 30 members, only 7, wearing masks, are ever seen to take part in active operations at any one time. The Magnet gave away a number of detective-themed promotional gifts over the course of the series which were featured in the narrative of the stories.

After Dr Locke is again incapacitated in 1937, the temporary headmastership passes this time to Mr Hacker, unpopular Master of the Shell, who is supported by Sixth form bully Arthur Carne. The resultant tyranny again prompts the Remove to fight back; this time, they march out of the school and barricade themselves in the tuckshop (Magnets Nos. 1510 to 1515).

Travel series
The summer holiday break, between the summer and Michaelmas terms, saw the Greyfriars juniors depart on a number of adventures away from the school. Frequently, this involved travel overseas.

The early Magnets saw some short trips to Europe, but it was not until 1922 that the first proper foreign travel series appeared. In Magnets Nos. 768 to 774 the juniors travel with Bob Cherry's cousin to Africa in search of buried ivory. The juniors revisited Africa with Mr Vernon-Smith in 1931 (Magnets Nos. 1228 to 1236).

In the India series of 1926 (Magnets Nos. 960 to 970) the juniors travel to Bhanipur with Colonel Wharton to ensure Hurree Singh's throne is kept safe against the machinations of foreign spies.

In 1927, the juniors visit the South Seas in Mr Vernon-Smith's yacht (Magnets Nos. 1017 to 1026), in search of Black Peter's treasure, which will make Redwing financially independent. The juniors revisited the Southern seas in 1938 (Magnets Nos. 1588 to 1598)

The longest foreign travel series came in 1929 (Magnets Nos. 1092 to 1107), when Mr Fish took a party of juniors and seniors all the way across the United States to Hollywood to make a school film. Though the trip was sold to the school and parents as educational, the primary purpose of the trip was to make films with real schoolboys without paying them Hollywood rates. The juniors went to the US for a second time in 1938 (Magnets Nos.1573 to 1582), this time to Texas, where they encountered another of Charles Hamilton's characters, the Rio Kid.

The Egypt series of 1932 (Magnets Nos. 1277 to 1284) follows the adventures of Billy Bunter, accompanied by Lord Mauleverer and the Famous Five, across Europe and the Mediterranean Sea to the North African deserts (a locale previously visited in the Sahara series of 1925). They are pursued by the villain Konstantine Kalizelos, who is convinced the schoolboys have a clue to the whereabouts of a fabulous lost jewel. Author Charles Hamilton never visited Egypt, and the authenticity of many of the descriptions and scenes in this series is remarkable. In particular, the characterisation of two Egyptians, the millionaire Hilmi Maroudi and the lower caste guide, Hassan the Dragoman, has won acclaim. These stories were partially reprinted in the Schoolboys Own Libraries before World War II and again by Armada in the 1970s, but both omitted the conclusion of the series.

The China Series of 1930 begins with the Remove junior, Wun Lung, menaced by the distant Chinese mandarin Tang Wang. Accompanied by Billy Bunter, the Famous Five and the detective Ferrers Locke, he returns to China via Hong Kong and Singapore. A series of adventures ensues. The author draws a vivid picture of a very different China ruled by Mandarins – a colourful land rich in history and ancient customs.

In other fiction
Greyfriars, and some of its (by then) former pupils, appeared in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier.

George Harbinger is a fictional civil servant in The Secret Servant by Gavin Lyall. He refers to the intelligence services of Warsaw Pact member states using language in the style of Charles Hamilton, such as "cads and rotters" to indicate their agents in the UK, and "Greyfriars" to indicate their various headquarters (particularly the Lubyanka Building as the activities of the satellite states' services are assumed to be directed by the KGB).

title: Greyfriars School


text:
Talk:Snafu

Misnamed
This article is Snafu when it should be SNAFU since it is an acronym. Actually, two of the entries are acronyms, one where it should be Snafu is a proper term and not an acronym. There a couple of things which could be done to resolve this:
 * 1) Break up the articles into there own entries. E.g. SNAFU (acronym), SNAFU (operating system) and Snafu. Then make the SNAFU entry a disam page.
 * 2) Leave the Snafu definition in the Snafu entry and move the acronyms to SNAFU (now a redirect to Snafu).  Make notes on both entries indicating the other meaning of the term.

Of course, due diligence requires all the updating of wikilinks to the correct articles. I lean towards option two since it is the easiest, but I don't have time to carry out the due diligence right now, so I won't do the first part. Anyway, that's my $.02 on the issue. If anyone feels so inclined to make the change, please do so. I don't watch this article, so I probably won't be revisiting this issue, but it does need to be corrected. —Frecklefoot 15:33, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * I've split this up as best I can. Matt 20:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 1) full capitalisation: not nearly necessary in my view. Go and read Acronym and Abbreviation for context. 'Acronyms pronounced as words' such as this one - which are almost never spelled out fully - can acceptably be rendered with a single capital or no capital at all. --Air 12:45, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * 1) the 'snafu' OS (note no caps at all) could potentially have a stub page of its own, but given the lack of content is probably fine as a footnote for now. --Air 12:45, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Actually, I'd dispense with the OS altogether. Google search for snafu "operating system" does return its page as the top link, fllowed by a couple of WP clones, however that doesn't really say much when the rest of the top 50 results are all articles which just happen to have "snafu" and "operating system" on the same page, as opposed ot actual references to an OS called SNAFU.  Commenting out for now. 82.6.10.139 16:25, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Further more, Alexa-wise, its home page doesn't even dent the bottom of the scale.

Modern usage of SNAFU
In my personal experience the current usage of SNAFU is, as the original usage was, one which includes the implication that the _general_ situation (e.g. the 'situation normal') is in some way seriously messed up not just the _particular_ incident which is being pointed out.

In other words just as the acronym states.

Most dictionary entries seem to be too sketchy to be of much use and, of course, people can be found arguing both ways. I suggest that unless a more authorative source is found / investigation made that the main article should (at the least) be less definite than is implied by the sentence "In modern parlance it refers to a normal situation that suddenly went awry."
 * The article now reflects that --Tomheaton 10:11, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Outside the US some people use it for 'Standard North American F*** Up' but this would not last long in the main article.... mikeL The first time I met snafu was 30 or 40 years ago in a novel(can't remember which) and this was the definition given. It could have been used during the war or maybe the author just dreamed it up... mikeL
 * I've never heard that myself. "Standard North American Fuck Up" returns no hits on google.  But if you have something that can back up your point of view then I would add it to the article as an alternative.  Just because it's an anti-american joke doesn't mean that it should be included.  And to be honest it's not going to be a hotly disputed article anyway.--Tomheaton 10:11, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I readded the modern usage of snafu as being a normal situation that suddenly goes awry. This is a very commone usage (at least here in the US), to the point that some people don't believe me when I tell them that it's an acronym for 'situation normal...' Lachatdelarue (talk) 02:37, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

". . . have originated in the US Army during World War II, It was the name of a cartoon U.S. Army training video as well as the main character in the video". OK I know that it was the name of a cartoon, or maybe a cartoon film, but definately not a cartoon video during WWII, since video as a medium for motion picture was not in general use until much later in the 20th century. HAE 16:02, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

There was some game called Snafu and spelled that way, not all with caps, where you had to get a small marble-like metal ball through a maze of different obstacles, has anyone heard of this game?

Isn't there a band called Snafu? --WildKard84 00:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)!

Disambiguation cleanup
Hi everybody! The Snafu page (as it currently stands) is need of cleanup to meet Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). A disambiguation page ("dab page") like this gets created to guide readers to disambiguated pages. For example, there is a a Roman god Mercury, a planet Mercury, and an element Mercury. So we disambiguate their pages to Mercury (mythology), Mercury (planet), and Mercury (element). At Mercury we place a disambiguation page ("dab page"), which functions as a signpost to the "real" articles.

Per the MOS, dab pages should not have article content on them, nor should they contain external links. Dab pages are internal Wikipedia signposts. They are not a place to list every possible use of a term or title. Citations are irrelevant unless there is (or is expected to be) an actual article. Wikipedia is not a directory.

This page is a mess in that regard. Unless someone steps forward in the next week or two, I'm going to go through and clean-out the external links and other clutter, leaving just the signposts to articles, making this back into a proper dab page.

— DragonHawk (talk|hist) 22:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Bowdlerized acronym
While SNAFU is sometimes defined as it is here, in actual and original usage, SNAFU certainly meant "Situation Normal: All Fucked Up." The bowdlerization of acronyms like SNAFU and FUBAR is understandable, but not exactly encyclopedic. "Fouled up" is not only an awkward, rarely used expression in English, but clearly a deliberate alteration of "fucked up." Does anybody have a citation to the contrary? 184.56.218.26 (talk) 04:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

why no real article
It is weird to only have a disambig page for SNAFU, with no real article for the main meaning. This is not just another military slang acronym, but one that became a common English term that can be used casually as a word, with little awareness of the acronym/origin.-96.233.20.34 (talk) 21:39, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Snafu


text:
Desert bandicoot

The desert bandicoot (Perameles eremiana) is an extinct bandicoot of the arid country in the centre of Australia.

Taxonomy
The description by Walter Baldwin Spencer was published in 1897, using a specimen provided by a European correspondent, Mr. Gillen, who had settled at Alice Springs. The holotype was placed at the National Museum in Melbourne. The type location was determined as the Burt Plain, an area north of Alice in South Australia.

The status as species is uncertain: it was proposed by L. Freedman in 1967 to represent a clinal form of a P. bougainville population, yet recognised in a revision of Perameles phylogeny in 2012. Names of the species by indigenous peoples of the central desert were reported by Spencer as mulgaruquirra at Alice Springs and iwurra at Charlotte Waters. Common names for the species also include orange-backed bandicoot and waliya, the latter adopted from a traditional name at the Warburton region.

Description
A species of Perameles which, like the Isoodon of the bandicoot family Peramelidae, are terrestrial and somewhat quadrupedal foragers that use short forelimbs to excavate the ground. The hind limbs resemble the macropods, roos and wallabies, and the syndactyly that is typical of diprotodonts, the combined second and third toes of the hindfeet. The body is small and head that is proportionally long, narrow and pointed to suit its use in investigating the sand while digging. Like other peramelids, the pelage of Perameles eremiana is composed of coarse and stiff hair, the coloration of this species is a dull orange with darker bands over the rump. They most closely resemble the western barred bandicoot Perameles bougainville, most readily distinguished by a rufous-orange coloration at the flanks, face and rump. dark brown fur covered most of the upper and lower parts of the feet at the front and hind limbs. The tails of Perameles are comparatively short, but in this species it was relatively longer, measuring 77–135 millimetres, and fur at the upper-side was dark brown; the end of the tail tapers to a point. The range of measurements for specimens of P. eremiana are 180 to 285 mm for head and body length combined, and their weight is estimated to be around 205 grams. Like other peramelids, the females have a rear facing pouch and possessed eight teats, the number of young may also have been as many as four although the only reports are of a female bearing two young. The distinctive characters of P. eremiana, the coloration, hair on the lower surface of the foot and longer pointed ears are thought to be adaptations suited to its arid environment of central Australian deserts. Its diet is not known with certainty, but has been reported to include ants, beetle larvae, and termites.

Distribution and habitat
The last known specimen was collected in 1943 on the Canning Stock Route in Western Australia, and the species is presumed to be extinct. Their first specimens, from the Alice Springs area, were described in 1897. It appears to have been common in the remote north-west of South Australia, the south-west of the Northern Territory, and the central part of Western Australia at least until the 1930s. Unconfirmed reports suggest that its range may have extended to the Tanami Desert and the arid Western Australian coast between Broome and Port Hedland.

Favoured habitat was sandy desert dominated by spinifex vegetation, Triodia species and other tussock grasses, on dunes or sand-plains. It appears to have disappeared between about 1943 and 1960. While the cause of its decline remains uncertain, it is thought to be related to the changed burning regimes that followed the removal of Aboriginal people from the central Australian deserts. Another factor may have been the introduction of the red fox in Australia. The species succumbed to the variety of threatening factors associated with the collapse of mammal populations in Western Australia (1875–1925). A study that modelled its decline when attributed to an epizootic event, an unknown disease that was reported at the time, found that Perameles eremiana would have had no immunity to its impact.

The detailed habits of the species are unknown, but assumed to be similar to the extant western barred bandicoot. They were found in areas also inhabited by the golden bandicoot Isoodon auratus.

A simple burrow was lined with sticks and leaves, scraped or dug at the ground beneath a shrub or spinifex tussock, and this provided refuge while it rested during the day. Foraging activity was nocturnal, and like other bandicoots, left a conical hole as it dug and investigated an area with its claws and long snout. This bandicoot was eaten by indigenous peoples, who captured the animal by blocking the entrance of its nest with one foot and removing the trapped animal by hand.

title: Desert bandicoot


text:
Talk:Jacqueline Bouvier (The Simpsons)

Wait a minute. Why does this article imply Jackie was married to Abe? Abe is Homer's father, not Marge's. Am I missing something here? --Johnleemk 15:36, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

jackie did not marry anybody (luke)

You are, the two dated in one episode, until Burns interfered, resulting in him (Burns) almost marrying her.

Hang on. Why is this article called "Jackie (The Simpsons)"? We should at least call it Jackie Bouvier. Yeah, I know Jacqueline Bouvier redirects to Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. Oh yeah. The only person she ever married was Clancy Bouvier. APclark 17:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

She appeared in Moaning Lisa in a dream sequence first. --66.82.9.79 02:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

NO CONSENSUS for page move, per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Jacqueline Bouvier (The Simpsons) → Jacqueline Bouvier — Currently "Jacqueline Bouvier" redirects to "Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis". She was born "Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy Onassis" but is overwelmingly known as "Jackie Kennedy" or "Jackie Onassis" Ted87 00:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add  * Support   or   * Oppose   on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~.

 * Nominate and Support --Ted87 00:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Anyone searching for the Simpsons character, who is named after the real person that is the subject of this article, is already directed at the top of the page. That's how it should be.  --Serge 00:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support - Jacqueline Bouvier is not Jackie O's name. It shares components, but it is different. The Simpsons character Jacqueline Bouvier is the only true Jacqueline Bouvier.--NPswimdude500 00:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope you're joking. The notability of the name "Jacqueline Bouvier" stems from it being the true maiden name of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis.  Otherwise, the Simpson character wouldn't even have this name! --Serge 01:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually I'm quite serious. The late wife of President Kennedy is no longer known as Jacqueline Bouvier. The article identifies her as Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis on account of her name change after she was married. Today, most people searching for Jacqueline Bouvier would be searching for the Simpsons character....not Jackie Kennedy (as she is more commonly called).--NPswimdude500 01:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Oppose for the same reasons as Serge. --Akhilleus (talk) 02:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This is a completely ludicrous suggestion. It shouldn't even be considered. It would be nice to think that this was a joke, but since, amazingly, it seems to be serious, it's probably necessary to lend an opposing voice. - Nunh-huh 03:07, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose, as above. (And she wasn't born "Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy Onassis", of course). Bolivian Unicyclist 22:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Stongly oppose per Serge and Bolivian Unicyclist. Gene Nygaard 01:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose as per the rest. -- Beardo 01:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose for the same reasons as everyone else. -- R'son-W (speak to me/breathe) 08:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Support per nom. TJ Spyke 06:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support The former 1st lady is much more well known for other names. The Simpsons character is the most likely search for the name nowadays. Edgecution 06:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose, for exactly the reasons stated by User:Serge Issakov and User:Bolivian Unicyclist. Heather 00:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments:

Source of character name
This is from the article:
 * The DVD commentary revealed her character is named after Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy Onassis, whose maiden name was Bouvier. Her father was John Vernou Bouvier III.  --Serge 01:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Who created the character of Jacqueline Bouvier? It is created by Matt Groening or any writers of The Simpsons? -Bryan Seecrets 06:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jacqueline Bouvier (The Simpsons)


text:
Frank Richards

Frank Richards may refer to:

 * Frank Richards (performer), vaudeville performer
 * the pseudonym of Charles Hamilton (writer) (1876–1961), writer of the Greyfriars School stories
 * the pseudonym of many "substitute writers" of Greyfriars stories, such as Edwy Searles Brooks (1889–1965)
 * Frank Richards (cricketer) (1863–1926), Australian cricketer
 * Frank Richards (football manager) (c. 1880–1963), manager of English football clubs
 * Frank Richards (actor) (1909–1992), American actor
 * Frank H. Richards (1858–1937), American politician
 * Frank Richards (British Army soldier) (1883–1961), soldier and author

title: Frank Richards


text:
Talk:Richard von Weizsäcker

Untitled
"Freiherr" is equal to the English title "lord", and since not all English-speaking people know what "Freiherr" is, the translation should be included. See the anglicization policy. Ertz 15:43, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Maybe the title should be linked and an article written explaining what it means? -- Schnee 08:35, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I've created an article Freiherr (a bit stubby at the moment). BTW: The German wikipedia article Freiherr says the title is equal to Baron or Sir. -- till we *) 10:54, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * P.S.: See also the table on the article nobility

 * P.P.S.: http://www.genealogienetz.de/misc/nobility_faq.html gives also some valuable information on this topic -- and seconds the title "Baron" for a "Freiherr von".

"Lord" is not a real title, but it is used when addressing persons who actually have a different (real) title, from baron to duke, as "Herr" is, less consequent, in German. Freiherr is equal to Baron, and a Baron is in English usually adressed "lord" (for instance, baron Rothschild used the title "lord" in English). Elizabeth A 23:27, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * I think "Freiherr" should be removed because nobility is abolished in Germany, this information could be added in the Article. The "von" remained as a part of the name.

 * It's true that nobility is abolished, but both the "Freiherr" and the "von" are part of his legal name. (However today it's only a part of the name and can be passed on to adopted children, via the female line etc. just like any other name) Kellner

It is completely incorrect to say that the German Nobility has been abolished, unlike in Austria. For anyone who bothers to read the appropriate section of the Weimar Constitution, which the current German Grundgesetz or Basic Law still follows in this regard, they will find only the privileges and prerequisites of the Nobility have been abolished, not the class itself. In essence this meant nothing new, as by 1919 there essentially were no remaining legal noble privileges. By the way, Freiherr is equivalent to Baron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:8200:5000:C5A5:EDAE:EB96:6E04 (talk) 02:57, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I have removed the paragraph which said that "Freiherr" is a title and not a name. It is not a title, because Germany has abolished noble titles. If he uses it as part of his name (as many other people do), it should be included as part of his name. If he doesn't, it should be removed. Adam 08:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

uncontested election
The article says "Due to the high esteem in which he is being held by Germany's political establishment, he is so far the only candidate to have stood for elections for the office of federal president uncontested;"

However, the article on the first president of the Federal Republic of Germany, Theodor_Heuss, mentions: "... In 1954 he was reelected with no opposition and held office until September 12, 1959."

Someone should check and amend either.

Theodor Heuß had seven opposing candidates in this election (one being former short-term president Karl Dönitz, another being Chancellor Konrad Adenauer) but collected 871 votes while his strongest Opponent, Alfred Weber gained 12 votes. All other candidates gained exactly one vote each. Weizäckers reelection was held with absolutely no other candidate in the ring.

Honorary doctorates
The 'Ruprecht Karls University' in Prague is a redlink that doesn't seem right - there's a Ruprecht Karl University of Heidelberg and a Charles University in Prague (Univerzita Karlova). Could it be one (or both) of these? Colonies Chris 11:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

He was the chair of a commission installed by the current social democratic-green government for reforming the Bundeswehr.
"He was the chair of a commission installed by the current social democratic-green government for reforming the Bundeswehr."

this government is no longer current

counting of presidents
The article declares Weizsäcker the tenth president of germany.

In Germany, the counting usually is strictly parted into the Weimar Republic and the Federal Republic. Thus, Weizsäcker is usually entitled the sixth president of the Federal Republic. This makes sense because the office was completely restructured after the war and presidency in the Federal Republic is in no means comparable to presidency in the Weimar Republic.

For the Weimar Republic, Hitler and Dönitz are, still though they were formally president, usually not referred to as presidents. Hitler is noticed as the Potentate he was while Doenitz' never had any powers over a part of Germany larger than a tenth of it's actual size nor was he ever elected to any office. When he was pointed to be president through Hitler's last will, nearly all of Germany was already occupied by the allies. Usually, Ebert and Hindenburg are named the only presidents during the WR.

It also does not correspond with the high respect of the federal presidency to name Hitler as a predecessor in office.

So may the ones who feel responsible for the articles about the federal presidents of Germany please think about re-counting from one instead of from -4.

President of Germany
Accordingly with what has been discussed above, I took back a change made yesterday, where someone wrote "Office re-created" in the "Preceded by" box. That is simply false. Office re-created suggests Weizsäcker held the very same office that Hindenburg did, which is constitutionally wrong. Both were heads of state, but the powers and the very name of the office are different. Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:41, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * On second thought, I merged it together to "President of Germany". The way it was displayed before, it suggested that he held two different offices, which he did not. I changed the title of office to "President of the Federal Republic of Germany". This is the most precise way it can be put. He was elected Bundespräsident of the Federal Republic and he stayed in the very same office. Just the territory of the country he headed changed. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I also took out the mentions of Dönitz and Hindenburg, since the way it was phrased now implied a continuency in office that is simply not there. I will try to find a better phrasing as I go along improving the article. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:35, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Presiden of West Germany & President of Germany, should be treated seperately. GoodDay (talk) 09:43, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Why? That would imply that it is a different office, which it is not. There wasn't even a seperate election!!! - which just proves it should not be seperated. Will change this back. A no-brainer. Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:32, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless we have reliable sources treating pre-unification West Germany and re-unified Germany as separate entities, we should keep the current handling. The East German territories acceded into West Germany - West Germany/Germany continued as the same legal entity in international law, international relations, and from its own constitutional point of view. GermanJoe (talk) 12:02, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

The consistent use of "West Germany" and "President of West Germany" is not consistent with how that German state styles and styled itself. It is (and was) named Federal Republic of Germany and would either be referred by that name or short just Germany, very rarely West Germany. The president is officially and constitutionally called "Bundespräsident", "Federal President". It was a favourite term used by the Soviet Union and the German Democratic Republic in their attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the Federal Republic. The persistent use of the term "West Germany" could be seen as slightly ignorant and should be avoided, notwithstanding its preferred use by cold war warriors (from outside Germany) in their day.Mareaustralis (talk) 16:50, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

External links modified
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"Aristocratic Weizsäcker family"
When Richard von Weizsäcker was born in 1920, aristocracy had already been formally abolished in post-WWI Germany. So kindly correct the sentence "Born into the aristocratic Weizsäcker family, he took his first public offices [...]" as this statement is de facto not true, as outlined above. The Weizsäcker family was and is an outstanding family in German public life but it has not been aristocratic for more than 100 years. 85.216.120.142 (talk) 22:59, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Do yo honestly think a family becomes less aristocratic because of legal changes? It doesn't. Str1977 (talk) 15:32, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

President of Germany or "West Germany"?
A dispute has arisen regarding whether Weizsäcker should be referred to as the "President of Germany" or "President of West Germany." Which of the two designations should be used? Emiya1980 (talk) 18:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Emiya1980 (talk) 19:33, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Emiya1980 (talk) 07:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Where is this dispute? I see no prior discussion on this talk page; per WP:RFCBEFORE you should indicate that normal discussion venues have been exhausted. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 19:07, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose It should remain Germany, as per usual designation. -- I also want to point out that previous (and broad) consensus across all related articles was Germany (and not West Germany) prior to User:Emiya1980 changing them. JackTheSecond (talk) 19:43, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * To designate the President of West Germany as the "President of Germany" is tantamount to saying that the Federal Republic of Germany was a legitimate sovereign entity while the German Democratic Republic was not. Are you saying Wikipedia should favor one state over another despite its professed commitment to neutrality? Because that's the implication.Emiya1980 (talk) 20:39, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * President of West Germany/Germany - Would be my choice. GoodDay (talk) 20:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * For obvious reasons, Weizsäcker is trickier than anyone else, but I like what I see there now, President of the Federal Republic of Germany, as both areas of Germany that he was president of were called that. If we move away from that, we need to remember that he was not President of East Germany for much of his presidency. Although nor was anyone else. Moonraker (talk) 20:30, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose There already is an annotation to clarify the differance. More importantly, the head of state of the GDR went by a completely different title, very much by design, so I see no break of "neutrality". Maxwhollymoralground (talk) 21:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

GDR was never called Germany, FRG was often shortened to Germany. GDR had a president for some years but its office had the title of "President of the Republic" --Denniss (talk) 10:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Exactly, I would like to stress the difference: Federal Republic of Germany vs. German Democratic Republic. Similiar to how the "German Empire" wasn't called "Empire of Germany" by design. Maxwhollymoralground (talk) 12:07, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

"West Germany" was never the name of state Weizsäcker war President of. He was President of the Federal Republic of Germany, which was founded in 1949 and still exists to this day. It should especially be avoided to phrase this in a way that Weizsäcker switched from one into a different office on October 3, 1990. If one really wants to avoid "President of Germany", then it is "President of the Federal Republic of Germany" (but that's on either side of 1990). It is not a violation of NPOV to report reality as it was. Str1977 (talk) 22:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I could not agree more. People who argue for anything else seem to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of what we are talking about. Any "West Germany/Germany" solution suggests that the office changed in 1990, which it did not. Weizsäcker was before 1990 and after the President of the Federal Republic, there wasn't even a new election. Therefore, in my opinion, "President of the Federal Republic of Germany" is the only viable option, as I had also put it when the article was elevated to GA back in 2015 (see old id here). Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Richard von Weizsäcker


text:
Joseph E. Brennan

Joseph Edward Brennan (November 2, 1934 – April 5, 2024) was an American lawyer and politician from Maine. A member of the Democratic Party, he served as the 70th Governor of Maine from 1979 to 1987 and in the United States House of Representatives for ME's 1st congressional district from 1987 to 1991. Brennan was a commissioner on the Federal Maritime Commission during the Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama administrations.

Early life
Brennan was born on November 2, 1934, in Portland, Maine. He lived on Kellogg Street, on the third floor of tenement housing on Munjoy Hill. He was raised in a family of eight children, with his parents being Irish immigrants. Brennan graduated from Cheverus High School, Boston College, and the University of Maine School of Law. Brennan served in the United States Army from 1953 to 1955.

Government service
Brennan won election to the Maine House of Representatives in 1964, and served three terms. When first elected to the Maine House he did not own a car and hitchhiked up from Portland. In 1970, he was elected county attorney for Cumberland County. When he was District Attorney, his Munjoy Hill house was shot up, with bullets landing by his infant daughter. This led Brennan to support the ban on assault-style weapons in the United States. He was elected to the Maine Senate in 1972.

Brennan ran for governor of Maine in 1974; he lost the Democratic nomination to George J. Mitchell. The Maine Legislature selected Brennan to be the Maine Attorney General on January 2, 1975. As attorney general, Brennan took part in negotiations with both Wabanaki tribes and the federal government on what became the Maine Indian Land Claims Settlement Act of 1980, a federal law enacted during the presidency of Jimmy Carter. Brennan ran for governor again in 1978, winning the primary and general elections. Brennan was reelected in a landslide in 1982, serving as governor from 1979 to 1987. As governor, Brennan launched education reforms, pressed for tough highway safety measures, and helped to establish the Finance Authority of Maine. Among the notable people Brennan appointed as governor were renowned Maine U.S. Senator George J. Mitchell and future Governor of Maine Janet T. Mills, whom Brennan appointed as the first female district attorney in the New England region.

In 1986, Brennan ran for the U.S. House in ME's 1st congressional district and defeated Republican Rollin Ives with 53% of the vote. After serving two terms in the House, Brennan ran for governor again in 1990, losing to Republican John McKernan. He ran again in 1994, losing to Independent Angus King, but placing second, ahead of Republican Susan Collins. He faced Collins in another statewide election in 1996, running for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by Bill Cohen, which Collins won.

In 1999, President Bill Clinton nominated Brennan to serve as a commissioner on the Federal Maritime Commission, a small independent agency that regulates shipping between the U.S. and foreign countries. He was re-nominated by President George W. Bush and confirmed for a second term at the FMC in 2004.

Personal life and death
Joe married Connie LaPointe Brennan in 1994. Joe had two children :J. B. Brennan, who is a 25-year veteran of the United States Secret Service, and Dr. Tara Brennan, who holds a Doctorate of Psychology from LIU Brooklyn.

Brennan died of natural causes at his home in Munjoy Hill, on the night of April 5, 2024, at the age of 89.

title: Joseph E. Brennan