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Richard Prebble

Richard William Prebble (born 7 February 1948) is a former member of the New Zealand Parliament. Initially a member of the Labour Party, he joined the newly formed ACT New Zealand party under Roger Douglas in 1996, becoming its leader from 1996 to 2004.

Early and personal life
Prebble was born in Kent, England, to Kenneth Ralph Prebble and Mary Prebble (née Hoad). In 1948, he moved with his parents and older brothers John and Tom Prebble when his father became vicar of Northcote parish in Auckland. His father was an Anglo-Catholic Anglican priest, and a leader in the Charismatic Renewal as archdeacon at St. Pauls, on retirement he and Mary were received into the Roman Catholic Church. He was educated at Auckland Grammar School before becoming a barrister and solicitor in 1971. From 1973 to 1974 he worked overseas in Fiji where he practised law.

Prebble's older brother, John Prebble KC, is an emeritus professor in law at Victoria University of Wellington. His younger brother, Mark Prebble was the State Services Commissioner and head of New Zealand's public service. John's daughter Antonia Prebble is an actor with a number of television roles.

Prebble has been married three times. His first wife was Nancy Cocks, and his second was Doreen Kuper, a former Honorary Consul for the Solomon Islands in New Zealand. His current wife is former Press Gallery radio journalist Ngahuia Wade. Cocks was a member of the Labour Party's Fijian branch and in 1975 she was elected to Labour's national executive.

Opposition
Prebble was originally a member of the Labour Party and in 1965 he became chairman of the Electorate Committee. At the and  elections he was a campaign organiser for Auckland Central MP Norman Douglas. When Douglas announced his retirement Prebble was selected, aged 27, to replace him as Labour's candidate in the seat. He was successful in being elected in the Auckland Central electorate at the 1975 election.

Soon after his election, owing mainly to Labour's drastic reduction in MPs in their 1975 defeat, he was made Labour's spokesman for race relations and the environment. Following the 1978 election he was given the more prominent portfolio of justice by Labour leader Bill Rowling. From 1978 until 1980 he was additionally the Labour Party's junior whip. In 1979 Rowling decided to create a separate shadow cabinet above the caucus. Prebble was given a seat in the shadow cabinet, but was displeased at the change in portfolio allocations in which he lost justice and was instead given immigration, regional development and the environment. As a result, he refused to join the shadow cabinet to protest his allocation of portfolios he did not want. Colleagues described the move as petulant, with Prebble countering by saying "The difference in opposition to being in a shadow cabinet and being a backbencher is only in name. It's a shadow rather than a substance." He resigned as junior whip as well and returned to the backbench until March 1981 when he rejoined the shadow cabinet as Shadow Minister for Social Welfare and Pacific Island Affairs.

On 2 September 1983 Prebble was injured in a head-on car collision whilst he was returning to Wellington after addressing the Taxi Proprietors' Association conference. He was taken to Dannevirke Hospital and was treated for a concussion and broken pelvis.

Owed to his legal background Prebble became quickly known for his "tough, aggressive, non-compromising debating style." From 1975 to 1984 Labour was in opposition, and Ross Meurant recalled that "Sir Rob has often said that when he was in government, the most irritating and damaging of his opponents was Richard Prebble. 'Always at it' said Sir Rob, 'Always a bother to us. Even if some thought he was mad the way he carried on, we never knew what he was going to come up with next.'"

Government
When the Fourth Labour Government was formed, after the 1984 election, Prebble was elected to the cabinet and was appointed Minister of Transport, Minister of Civil Aviation and Meteorological Services, Minister of Railways and Minister of Pacific Island Affairs. He pressed for a Pacific affairs ministerial portfolio to be established, having an interest in the experiences of Pacific Island New Zealanders due to his time working in Fiji and the large concentration of Pacific Islanders living in his constituency.

During the government Prebble aligned himself with Roger Douglas, the controversial Minister of Finance, and was an associate finance minister. Douglas, Prebble and David Caygill were together dubbed "the Treasury Troika", and were responsible for most of the economic reform undertaken by the Labour government. The "Rogernomics" reforms, which were based on free market economic theory, were unpopular with many traditional Labour supporters. In August 1988 Prebble spoke at a public meeting in Sydenham and was greeted with jeering crowds of Labour supporters who were angry with the reforms and their consequent unemployment. While being interviewed by a television reporter he was hit, mid-sentence, by an egg thrown from the crowd. The egg was thrown by Christopher Owen-Cooper, a former serviceman who served in both World War II and the Korean War, who faced a disorderly behaviour charge. Owen-Cooper was quoted by The Dominion newspaper as saying "We've all built up frustration, we're sick of what the Government's doing. They [politicians] can't give us any answers so it was time someone gave them the hurry along." He was discharged but paid $50 in costs.

Prebble held more portfolios than any other minister in the government as his post of Minister for State Owned Enterprises absorbed almost all the portfolios of government owned operations and assets which were scheduled to be privatised (much to the opposition of the public). As such Prebble became grossly overworked and colleagues noticed he paid little attention to his appearance with unkempt hair and ragged suits. Other ministers also felt his portfolio took up too much time in cabinet meetings. Lange, in tune with the public mood, was opposed to public asset sales and impeded Prebble's efforts in selling them. The disagreement became a very public falling-out when Lange stripped him of the State Owned Enterprises (SOE) portfolio on 4 November 1988. Prebble publicly counterattacked in a television interview that night saying that Lange was acting dictatorial and was in no state to be making decisions. Prebble commented: "He [Lange] said the matter had been eating and gnawing at him and was killing him. I said I didn't think this was a proper basis for making policy. Mr Lange said in that case I should resign." The comments on television by Prebble lead to his dismissal from cabinet altogether the following day. Lange stated at a press conference that Prebble had misrepresented the detail and nature of a private conversation between the two.

Prebble returned to the backbenches afterwards. In August 1989 he put himself forward to fill one of two vacant seats in cabinet, but lost a caucus ballot to Annette King. When Lange's replacement as Prime Minister Geoffrey Palmer held a complete re-election of cabinet in January 1990 Prebble was elected and returned to the frontbench and cabinet. Palmer gave him the SOE portfolio once again and later appointed him Minister of Police as well.

1990 and 1993 elections

Prebble retained his Auckland Central seat in the 1990 election. In opposition he was appointed Shadow Minister of State Owned Enterprises, Works, Police and Pacific Island Affairs. In the 1993 election, Prebble lost his seat to Sandra Lee, deputy leader of the new left-wing Alliance party.

In the 1995 New Year Honours, Prebble was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire, for public services.

After leaving parliament Prebble worked making consultancy deals and moved to Vietnam tendering to build New Zealand's first embassy there. In 1996 he also secured a joint-venture deal to restructure Vietnam's railway system (which was still using steam engines). He also joined Auckland businessman Malcolm McConnell to create the company McConnell International.

ACT New Zealand
New Zealand switched to the mixed-member proportional (MMP) representation electoral system in 1993. Roger Douglas established the ACT New Zealand party, and was joined by Prebble. Initially he did not take an active role in the party and, though frequently invited to speak at ACT functions, he stated in July 1995 that he had no intention of standing for parliament again. However, in March 1996, Douglas stepped down as the new party's leader, and Prebble took over beating former Federated Farmers president Owen Jennings for the party leadership.

1996 election
In the 1996 election, the first to be held under MMP, ACT won eight seats in Parliament. Prebble won the Wellington Central electorate following a campaign that saw National Party leader and Prime Minister Jim Bolger predict Prebble would win rather than National’s candidate. Bolger saw ACT as a natural partner either in a coalition or a confidence-and-supply arrangement, and wanted to assure ACT would be in the chamber by helping Prebble win Wellington Central. Under New Zealand's MMP rules, a party that falls below the five-percent threshold can still qualify for MMP if it wins at least one electorate seat. The events were captured in the documentary Campaign.

1999 election
Prebble lost his Wellington Central seat in the 1999 election, but remained in Parliament as a list MP and leader of ACT.

2002 election
Prebble was re-elected as a list MP and leader of ACT in the 2002 election.

Retirement
Prebble was replaced as ACT leader by Rodney Hide in 2004, and did not stand in the 2005 election.

Prebble's book, Out of the Red, was released on 23 October 2006.

He became campaign manager for ACT leading up to the 2014 election with his stated aim to bring 9 ACT MP's into Parliament; this did not eventuate however as ACT did not gain any new seats, only retaining Epsom.

Prebble now lives in Rotorua and he is a columnist with The New Zealand Herald.

Publications

 * Prebble's contribution was the paper: "New Zealand: tenth by 2010."
 * Prebble's contribution was the paper: "Old values, new ideas."
 * The second edition of this book is entitled Now it's time to act.
 * This is the second edition of I've been thinking - containing additional material.
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * Prebble's contribution was the paper: "Old values, new ideas."
 * The second edition of this book is entitled Now it's time to act.
 * This is the second edition of I've been thinking - containing additional material.
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * The second edition of this book is entitled Now it's time to act.
 * This is the second edition of I've been thinking - containing additional material.
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * This is the second edition of I've been thinking - containing additional material.
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."
 * Prebble's contributions are the papers: "Why I do not vote National"; and (co-authored with Deborah Coddington) "Lessons of freedom and choice."

title: Richard Prebble


text:
Talk:Eadweard Muybridge

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Murder
Muybridge murdered his wife's lover on October 17, 1874, and got away with it, apparently the last convicted murderer in California not to be punished except by reason of insanity. These facts deserve to be mentioned in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.220.141.35 (talk) 04:46, 21 February 2004 (UTC)

"The Photographer"
Yes, the killing and aquittal do deserve to go into this article−as does the fact that Philip Glass's much-acclaimed 1982 opera The Photographer is based on that incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.188.27 (talk) 16:46, 17 April 2005 (UTC)

Influences
I think the small list at the end of the article introduced simply with "influences" needs to be looked at. It's not entirely clear to me how some of these figures (Edison and Dickson, especially) are "influenced" by Muybridge. I intend to remove the section/do major cleanup unless someone objects. --Eyrian 20:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

 * If you remove such information you would be deleting some very important facts from this entry. At the bottom of the page is a source, Solnet's book, which is the source for these "influences" that you are not understanding. If you delete the info, I will gladly take the time to add some more info that you might be able to understand.

 * Just so you know, between the years 1870-80, Muybridge met with most of the giants in the field of motion picture innovation, he even went to France to meet with the Carre Brothers. One of the first people he talked with was Edison, who directly used Muybridge's experimental results as a basis for developing his flipping-motion-picture projector (whatever its called).

 * as for the other comments...
 * I dont see why Glass's music would have to be given the same importance to this entry as the Muybridge murder case. I don't think the Glass link should be removed, it is fine and so is the paragraph, but Glass's piece is hardly relevant to Muybridge's life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.113.250 (talk • contribs) 19:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, if Solnet's book is being used for these sources, it should be used to explain the exact connection. Again, it's fine to keep the influences, I just want to make sure that the connections between them and Muybridge are made clear in the article, which I don't believe they currently are.

 * Glass's opera about an important event in Mubridge's life seems relevant enough to warrant mention. --Eyrian 02:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Historical accuracy is a funny thing especially if one is starting with an opinion about the facts. Muybridge's meeting with Edison was reported in the papers of the time (nov 1888?) and Edison's version of the motion-picture patent came 7 years later. According to Solnet's research, Edison's assistants worked extensively from the work Muybridge began (not just chemical mixtures & exposures, but projection methods and even the fundamental vision of how such a device could be made), so it should be a reasonable assumption that the one influenced the other. Clear enough, right? I will take the initiative to look up all the correct dates of their meeting and type them into the entry in a clearly worded manner so that this historical moment can be understood better.

 * But understand this, if one begins looking at the facts with the opinion that Muybridge did not influence Edison, then one is needlessly directing the discussion away from an historical-understanding and instead into the realm of revisionist history - so like you said, making it "clear" is what needs to be done, but it must be carefully worded so that it does not become too complicated and overly important. Furthermore, Edison himself has gone through great lengths to foster this kind of false assumption about the influence and to acknowlege these false assumptions would probably not be a "clear" way of presenting the info in this entry. So, when I get around to typing in this info, I will not go into such a discussion, I will just provide a simple sentence or two that gives the dates and lets the facts speak for themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.113.250 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Sure, sounds great. You should understand, I'm not coming at this from any preconceived notions. I just saw some "influences" at the bottom of the page, which didn't seem obivously connected. Some, merely by virtue of their listed inventions, seemed obvious. But the path from Muybridge to Edison is not as straightforward. I look forward to your explanation. --Eyrian 22:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

More than two years later this is still shoddy. The "influences" section says e.g. QUOTE Thomas Edison - owns patent for motion picture camera UNQUOTE. Edison is not mentioned otherwise in the text at all. It is absolutely unclear how Muybridge influenced Edison, and if the above waffle is true then it needs to be expanded to a couple of sentences, given a REF tag, and put into the body of the text. "I will just provide a simple sentence or two that gives the dates and lets the facts speak for themselves" is useless. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 19:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

According to Terry Ramsaye's book (a history of motion pictures up to 1925), Muybridge did not invent anything. According to this book, Muybridge had an unwieldy and impractical system of strings that the moving animal was supposed to break, setting off the cameras. Results were poor. An engineer named John D. Isaacs came to work with him, invented a clockwork system for taking the photos, and went off to work on other projects, leaving Muybridge to take credit for the process. According to the book, Muybridge showed his photos in France, where they were enthusiastically received. Someone there invented a method for the photos to be projected sequentially, and Muybridge showed his gratitude by also appropriating this process as his own. Kip (talk) 21:49, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Kip W

 * Ramsaye's book includes a brief foreword written by Edison. Hardly an unbiased source. Despite Edison's claims to the contrary and his partisans' denigration of Muybridge (which continues to this day, judging by the above), the record shows that Edison was certainly aware of Muybridge's work before he and Dickson (who did most of the actual inventing) turned their attention to the nascent field of motion picture technology. Muybridge partisans claim that he approached Edison to discuss the possibility of combining his moving pictures with Edison's phonograph, sparking Edison's interest, but was rebuffed by the latter, who was never very keen on collaborating as an equal or duly sharing credit for an invention. 66.81.241.47 (talk) 14:03, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Problem in description of horse pictures
The article states that the horse photo was to answer if more than 1 hoof is on the ground at once and then goes on to discuss the (apparently not asked) question regarding all the hooves being off the ground at once. Which is it? It then goes on to answer the apparently asked question. However, I think the 'all hooves off the ground' area needs to be clarified somehow. Monty2 08:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Somebody obviously decided to argue with the article inside the article and so you're left with such loose ends! According to Stanford Magazine, though, Stanford's position was that all four hooves were airborne (there's even a name for this, "unsupported transit"), so it doesn't look like this is a "trivially observed" question as the older text had it. I think we can take the university's magazine as reasonably definitive, since they likely had access to his papers in writing it. --Dhartung | Talk 18:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Great find, thanks for the source. The only other place I've really seen this observed was James Burke on one of his shows, I believe Connections, and he went with it being 'all four off the ground' question. Monty2 01:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

So because the movie played on the web page indeed shows one hoof on the ground at a time, the question arises at what point this was considered a conjecture and at what point a finding. I authored the "one hoof" correction because I read the incorrect version elsewhere. And I too remember James Burke report the version I consider incorrect. I may have read the correct version in an old [Scientific American], and don't ask me to cite it!

Some of the citations for "Unsupported transit" that I Googled say "trot", which is a different gait than "gallop". It is entirely possible that two controversies were afloat. All-hooves-up is indeed difficult to see in a trot, but the Muybridge film of a trotting horse pulling a wheeled vehicle indeed reveals it.

The fact remains that you can watch a horse at gallop and see all four hooves off the ground at the same time, without the need to invent any cameras, so the persistence of these inconsistencies regarding Muybridge's work is disturbing. --Phlip —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.65.205.11 (talk) 02:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The problem with this part of the article is that you say they were trying to prove that the horse's hooves were off the ground during a *trot*, yet the film shows the horse *galloping*. So why is the horse galloping if they were trying to prove a trot?  What were your sources for this statement?  Dailycyclist 14:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

BIG PROBLEM: the original question was about trotting, not gallop! There was no question about all hoofs leaving the ground in gallop, that can be seen without a camera. Gallop pictures are everywhere, but the original trotter series was published in Scientific American at that time. Inaccuracies like this give Wikipedia a bad name. Please fix the whole section, thanks. Petrus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.65.255.1 (talk) 12:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

There is a further problem with this section. It is stated that the trip-wires were triggered by the horse's hooves but this can't have been the case in the gallop because the horse would have jumped clean over many of the wires and triggered others with its back legs. These problems would also, one assumes, occur while trotting. So, where were the trip-wires really placed? Somewhere around chest-height would seem most logical but does anyone have an actual source? Dricherby (talk) 15:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Trot/gallop problem still not fixed!!! The original question was about prize trotter Occidental, and there are pictures of him trotting. Those are the very first animal locomotion pictures Muybridge took to settle a bet of $20000 (huge amout at that time). The problem is that the gallop pictures are much more well known and the original newspaper clippings telling the news have not been scanned to Internet. The original pictures were published in Scientific American the same year. Somebody needs to dig up the Scientific American issue in a library, I have seen it in the seventies, but now the issue has disappeard from our university library. Untruth, repeated in the net enough times, turns into truth! Petrus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.215.242 (talk) 18:03, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Came here after reading about how Mongol archers would time firing their arrows to the moment when their galloping horse had all four feet off the ground and I thought "wait, I thought no one knew that until Muybridge!". After looking at various sources (e.g. this article from American Museum of Natural History exhibition) it's clear that the controversy was indeed about whether a horse left the ground during a trot, as discussed here, with a secondary curiosity about what position a horse leaves the ground in a gallop. I have updated The Horse in Motion to reflect this. For what it's worth, to me this main Muybridge article appears to be clear and accurate about all this. I'm assuming edits have been made in the 9 years since the above comments and we can probably call it case closed. —Sir Tobek (talk) 04:05, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Many sources mention gallop, but the real issue was regarding trot. There, it's difficult (impossible?) to see that all feet are off the ground with the unaided eye. Muybridge proved it. --Janke | Talk 09:09, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Modoc War
The Modoc War took place in southern Oregon and northern California, and had nothing to do with the railroads. Gentgeen 20:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't want a dispute about nationality.
The guy did most (all?) of his work in the US. You can say he was british or american or both. (as A canadian I am well aware that many of my contrymen spend a good part of their carreers in the US, and the americans do tend to claim them.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cmacd123 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

Of course you don't, that's why you brought it up, right? The fact is, if anyone of note even looks at Canada from the US, the Canadians claim them as their own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.35.211 (talk) 20:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

hello
wikipedia is not censored for minors, so that picture of the woman... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.173.9.11 (talk) 21:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * You're right. Wikipedia is not censored for anyone. What do you mean to insinuate with "..." ?  M URGH   disc.  03:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a sequence of pictures of a naked woman spanking a naked boy in the online Getty images archive that the poster above seems to be referring to. It may be controversial but is certainly notable, it’s probably a one-of-a-kind photo, especially by one as famous as Muybridge. Overlordnat1 (talk) 03:29, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Florado's age ?
How is it that Eadweard and his son died the in the same year but only five years apart in age? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.40.13.202 (talk) 00:10, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The answer, I think, is that the article is clearly totally wrong on this. --24.199.89.159 03:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hopefully corrected now... --Rividian (talk) 14:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The 1893 Chicago World's Fair
I want to provide a better rendition of Muybridge participation to the World's Columbian Exposition. I complete the mention about the "disks produced for the phenakistoscope, a parlor toy used to view short motion sequences". Jean Fex (talk) 15:50, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Untitled
A list of his works would be lovely. 24.161.161.194 (talk) 23:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Indians
Muybridge photographed the Tlingit in 1868, "To Alaska with government military force, visits Ft. Wrangell and photographs Tlingit Indians." (Fleming/Lusky, p. 242, source: Ralph W. Andrews, 1964 and David Mattison, 1985).
 * On the Modoc War, 1872, -73 (Paula Fleming/Judith Lusky, The North American Indians in Early Photographs, p. 46): "Both Louis Herman Heller and Eadweard Muybridge took photographs during the conflict, creating for the first time an almost complete record of an Indian war..." M. was employed by the US government (Heller not). "It is possible that the government hired Muybridge to justify the army' s poor field performances against the Modocs" (Fleming and Lusky credit: Peter E. Palmquist. P. has published 2 essays, 1977, 1978 on M. and Louis Heller as reporters of the Modoc war).--Radh (talk) 14:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

"No portraits" seems wrong
The article states that: He [Muybridge] is not known ever to have made a photographic portrait, though group shots by him survive.

I recently went to the Corcoran Gallery's excellent and extensive exhibit of Muybridge's work. Although they're clearly a small minority of his work, there are a number of solo, formal portraits shown in the exhibit. I specifically recall portraits of his wife Flora, of a local San Francisco actress, and of himself. I believe there were others of athletes and dancers as well. Also shown in the exhibit were his "business cards", which were essentially photographs of collages of his work, including many portraits (he specifically advertised "celebrity portraits" on them, as I recall).

So Muybridge definitely made many portraits, perhaps to pay the bills if nothing else. Am I misunderstanding this sentence in the article? If not, it should be removed or altered. Moxfyre (ǝɹʎℲxoɯ | contrib) 04:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

English or British?
Wikipedia doesn't have a consistent policy on how to define this. Which of these options should it be? "... was an English photographer who spent much of his life in the United States." "... was a British photographer who spent much of his life in the United States." 129.174.161.41 (talk) 19:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Used Today
Is it really accurate to talk about the "flexible perforated film strips" that are "used today"? What about digital video? Sithman VIII !! 04:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Reference
Letter to the editor Nature from B. Laufer who wrote Chinese Pottery of the Han Dynasty (1909) RPSM (talk) 12:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

The ‘horse lawsuit’
What was it about precisely, and why did he lose? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.86.185 (talk) 09:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Year of death in the article should show 1904 not 1944
The paragraph that talks about him being hit by a car says it happened in 1944, but he died in 1904. Probably a typo.

Jaruz (talk) 07:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

 * That paragraph is talking about his son, Floddie who was 69 when he died. The 1944 date is correct. - X201 (talk) 10:00, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Different person here, still discussing the same idea though. But wasn't the date in 1946 when it happened not 1944, I believe thats what many other sources are telling me — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.204.221.182 (talk) 13:05, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Floddie's tombstone shows April 16, 1874 to February 2, 1944. 69.113.151.63 (talk) 20:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)corpho

Google
On 4/9/12, Google gave him a google thing in honor of him; however, since the article is protected, I'm unable to edit the article. Can somebody make this edit please? --96.242.163.228 (talk) 10:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

No, that is not relevant to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.91.14.125 (talk) 13:04, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

"Eadweard"?????
Shouldn't it be "Edward"? I've never heard of the name "Eadweard" in my life... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.123.221.141 (talk) 13:48, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Explanation for spelling is in the article - old English form.Parkwells (talk) 18:25, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 9 April 2012
The date of death is wrong as written in the section "Stanford and the galloping question". In the last sentence, it should be written 1904 instead of 1944.

24.48.111.127 (talk) 14:22, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

"In 1944 he was hit by a car in Sacramento and killed.": He died in 1904. Therefore, 1944 should be replaced with 1904. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eoktay (talk • contribs) 18:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

 * I can see no death date in the "Stanford" section. The section following it has a death date, but as I said in the post a couple of place above this one, that is not talking about Eadweard Muybridge, its addressing his son, Floddie, who DID die in 1944. - X201 (talk) 07:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Videography didn't exist until after his death
from the section, "Stanford and the galloping question", the fourth paragraph states, "This series of photos stands as one of the earliest forms of videography." and I think it is an incorrect statement. The Websters Dictionary says "Videography is the practice or art of recording images with a video camera". The definition of Video is, "Television" and the definition of Television is "an electronic system of transmitting transient images of fixed or moving objects together with sound over a wire or through space by apparatus that converts light and sound into electrical waves and reconverts them into visible light rays and audible sound", again from Websters Dictionary. So, I don't think "videography" is the correct term for what Muybridge was doing. Rather, I think the correct term is "cinematography". Smash591 (talk) 14:49, 9 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smash591 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Agree; relation to "cinematography" noted in next pararaph; videography deleted.Parkwells (talk) 18:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Location of work
By all accounts, Muybridge worked mostly in the US as an adult, so why the insistence on saying "North America"? California was a state by 1850, Oregon was a US Territory. He worked briefly in Alaska, but the preponderance was within the US. Parkwells (talk) 18:30, 9 April 2012 (UTC).

 * According to the article, he went to Alaska after it was acquired by the US, so thar should count too. Wschart (talk) 17:14, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Stagecoach accident
Thank you, User:Parkwells for adding more material about Muybridge's stagecoach accident. It clearly was a significant life event, knocking him off-kilter for several years, and likely changing his entire career. The note about Shimamura's comments is definitely noteworthy, and he appears to have written about it in an interesting-sounding paper which I unfortunately don't have access to. It lends possible insight into Muybridge's impulsiveness and emotional instability, his later murderous actions, and his abrupt changes in career direction. Could you tie in Shimamura's comments more solidly, with more footnotes and possibly some strategic quotations? This is just a modest suggestion, if you have the time and the access to the background material. Thanks for your efforts to improve the article, while defending it from vandals! --Reify-tech (talk) 17:04, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Thanks, will see what I can find. I have the Solnit book, not the Shimamura paper, but she likely has specific cites to it.Parkwells (talk) 00:22, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * She refers in her footnotes to an unpublished paper of Shimamura. As her book was published in 2003, she may have read his paper before he published it in 2002.Parkwells (talk) 02:00, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Found a url for the paper, but it won't download more than the cover. May just use Solnit's quotes from her text.Parkwells (talk) 02:19, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I was very happy to see the URL, and I was able to download the entire paper, and to print it out. It's well worth reading, and presents a coherent chronological narrative; I found the details recounted there to be fascinating.  It does vary in some details, for example that it says that Muybridge's wife Flora did divorce him before she died.  It's not clear whether the Shimamura paper is correct in this, as this assertion is not referenced specifically, and it is not at all essential to his overall thesis. Some other sources should be checked to confirm or deny this minor claim.  Anyway, the overall paper is fascinating, including a retelling of the Phineas Gage case, and its similarity to Muybridge's.  Try to download it again, and maybe it will work. If all else fails, send me your email address privately, and I'll send you my copy of the file, or I'll get it to you some other way.  Again, thanks for your work, which is contributing a lot to improving the Wikipedia article.  --Reify-tech (talk) 11:55, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Legacy... Citation required
This is about my contribution's citation requirements: »In Buenos Aires (2009), graphic and typographic designer Victor Garcia created "MotionBats", a family of symbol fonts based on some of Muybridge's photographic sequences.[citation needed]«

Sources to confirm this are the following Webpages: Designer's Webpage: http://www.victorgarcia.com.ar/english/t_motionbats.html Directory of Latin American Tipography: http://d-t-l.org/tipografias-detalles.php?id=291 Creative Review design magazine (Great Britain): http://www.creativereview.co.uk/feed/october-2009/20/motionbats http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/2009/10/motionbats_01_0.jpg MyFonts (USA)" http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/victorgarcia/motion-bats/ Thaks, Tipogarcia (talk) 04:25, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

 * To me it looks like Muybridge is very important to Garcia's life and career, but not vice versa. The MotionBats symbol fonts are not so notable that they need to be included in Muybridge's biography. Binksternet (talk) 05:27, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

In the previous entry I have provided sufficient documentary sources that allows to verify the authenticity of the data provided far away of any reasonable doubt. I think that your comparisons does not respond to a genuine interest on the authenticity of the submitted information but rather, they seems to be oriented to state some personal tastes –as far as I understand– outside the interests of this medium. I do not agree with the terms of your comment and asks for the reinstatement of my duly credited contribution, only reliable requirement needed to legitimate their inclusion.Tipogarcia (talk) 19:19, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Given your WP username, I cannot help but suspect that you are the creator of this font. If so, I suggest you familiarize yourself with WP's polcies on conflict of interest, self-promotion, self-publishing, etc. Additionally, since "MotionBats" does not seem to be notable enough to warrant its own WP page, I doubt it would be notable enough to include here. HCA (talk) 20:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

From all your considerations and suspicion -as you call them- the only argument seems to contain an explanation, is your latest one. This does not mean that I share it, but I can understand the reasoning for it seems a little less arbitrary than the preceding. Written by Binksternet words above are clearly ironic and disparaging towards any personal qualities of the creator of "MotionBats". Curiously, personal comments such as are opposite to the WP's own policies that you invokes. I will not insist, not worth it.201.253.85.8 (talk) 00:13, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

On second thought, does not seem fair that the data about "MotionBats" is censored unsubstantiated conclusive. The recorded is an artistic duly accredited fact, and to judge the appropriateness of its inclusion in this space, should rely on the opinion of experts in the disciplines of art and/or design, knowledge that the two previous commentators can not be attributed. An encyclopaedia is about multicultural knowledge that is based on verifiable facts. Specialists, not just good intentions, should evaluate the relevance or intrinsic qualities of the facts presented. The interest in content is the more justified the larger, rich and diverse the collected information. It is not through arbitrary restrictive acts as collective knowledge is constructed. On these assumptions, I have the hope that the information has been registered, then documented, and finally censored, is reviewed by people with the knowledge and skills to judge an artistic fact associated with Muybridge's work, as is proposed.Tipogarcia (talk) 14:24, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Historic American Buildings Survey
File:Historic American Buildings Survey Nelson Collection, McCoy Label Co., S.F. Circa - 1876 VIEW DURING ERECTION - U. S. Sub-Treasury and Mint, 608 Commercial Street, San HABS CAL,38-SANFRA,17-3.tif seems to be by him. any history of his work with them?Mercurywoodrose (talk) 15:33, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Muybridge did indeed photograph the first (and still standing) S.F. Mint building under construction. A very large collection of Muybridge's photographs, including, IIRC, several views of the Mint, is available online via the Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. 66.81.220.16 (talk) 03:30, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I just double-checked. Seven such photos are currently available online from that source . Scroll a bit less than halfway down the inconveniently very long list to find them. Here is a direct link to the first in the series; alas, there is no "next" option for easy access to the rest. 66.81.220.16 (talk) 04:08, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Image error?
The moving image labeled "A phenakistoscope sequence of a couple waltzing" appears to be left-right mirrored. Note which hand the man has raised as he turns with the lady. Not only is it incorrect dance form, it is reversed from the still image of the wheel immediately above. The disk is apparently viewed in a mirror, so I suppose it may be correct, but perhaps that could be noted. Gilmore.the.Lion (talk) 14:49, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

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Galloping horse movie stored on DNA
Should this information be included in this Wikipedia article?

The DNA of a living organism has been used as a medium for video storage. Using Muybridge's movie of the galloping horse Annie G., a low-rez video was stored in and retrieved from, for the first time, in the DNA of live organism.

Link http://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-os/biomedical/devices/scientists-store-video-data-in-the-dna-of-living-organisms

204.38.4.80 (talk) 16:15, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

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Location problem
The article currently states that "In central Texas, Muybridge suffered severe head injuries in a violent runaway stagecoach crash which injured every passenger on board, and killed one of them.[17][18] Muybridge was bodily ejected from the vehicle, and hit his head on a rock or other hard object. He was taken 150 miles (240 km) to Fort Smith, Arkansas, for treatment (his earliest memories post-accident were there), where he stayed three months . . . "

There is nowhere even on the northernmost or easternmost Texas borders closer than 200 miles from Fort Smith. Waco, probably the northernmost city that might be considered "central Texas," is 372 miles away.

If anyone has a bio on hand, could you check to fix the location of the crash, or the mileage, whichever is incorrect?

--Kcatmull (talk) 22:10, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Florado? Floredo?
I've noticed there are a good few reputable-seeming sources online that show the spelling of Floddie's birth name as Floredo instead of Florado. Is it possible Floredo reflects how his name was pronounced [fluh-REY-doh]? His headstone shows Florado, so that seems to be the correct spelling (not sure who commissioned the headstone, though, or when it was put in place) but I'm curious why there are so many instances of Floredo in articles, books, etc.69.113.151.63 (talk) 20:16, 28 August 2019 (UTC)corpho

Names used in article
In my edits and additions I worked with whatever name Muggeridge/Muggridge/Muygridge/Muybridge personally used at the time of the described actions, as written in the original sources that I usually refer to (or at least as known from contemporary documentation). Of course many people prefer to see his name only in the familiar "Muybridge" form and therefore changed the original versions (and probably will keep changing them).

In some cases, the only way to be sure that a wikipedia entry is accurate depends on using the right name. For instance: a mention of the name Muygridge in Californian newspapers could concern his brother Thomas, without stating a first name. Technically, if such news messages are described on wikipedia somewhat like "It was reported that Muygridge did this" they would be totally correct (and would reflect a likely misinterpretation that would also exist at the time of the original source), while "It was reported that Muybridge did this" would be false. Of course if the entry actually turns out to be about another person, it should be deleted or changed.

Also, using the right name enhances the narrative. It's weird to read something like "Muybridge did this. Muybridge did that. He then started using the name Muybridge." (somewhat similar to what actually remained in the article after someone edited my writing). This can be fixed by just removing a sentence about the name change in biographic parts (it was already detailed in a separate section after all). More importantly, changing everything to "Muybridge" is also a bit like consistently referring to young Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader (or to Darth Vader as Anakin Skywalker); that would be more confusing than having to get used to the different names that someone used during very different stages of his life, wouldn't it?Joortje1 (talk) 08:05, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree that we should try to use the name variant Muybridge was using during the specific times being described. In connection with that, is there any documentation of the name he was using when he arrived in the US for the first time, an an immigrant in New York City in 1850? Immigrants often took the occasion to change their names upon arrival, or had their names changed by immigration authorities. It would be informative to find documentation of what name he used, as noted in official records. Reify-tech (talk) 19:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

omission in "Legacy and Representation in other media"
"Moments Captured" - book by Robert J. Seidman published in 2012 by Overlook Press, NY. I have just finished this book of fiction based on the life of Eadweard Muybridge. The "Author's Note" reads: "There are many ways to illuminate history. Fiction is one. Moments Captured is a work of fiction generously based on events in the life of Eadweard Muybridge, the pioneering nineteenth-century photographer, but it certainly does not intend to be a faithful biography. I have taken liberties with the chronology of the artist's career and have omitted and invented characters in his circle." Ken Hatcher 98.121.168.170 (talk) 16:02, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Historical Landmark
The California Historical Landmarks in Santa Clara County points to this article for the landmark: Development of Motion Pictures. Please use the Template:Infobox historic site to update the article with the following citation #1 and citation #2. Greg Henderson (talk) 21:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

 * How exactly can Muybridge (a person) be considered a "historic site"?
 * Why do you ask others to do this update? Another conflict of interest if you'd do this yourself? Or just a way to make a quicker buck if you plant a lot of similar requests, rather than do the real work?
 * Since I looked into the specifics before I had a look at your user page to see if there was any explanation for your weird request, here's my 2 cents:
 * Since the Eadweard Muybridge page adresses his whole life, wouldn't it be better to link that CHLiSCC page to the page The Horse in Motion, which specifically deals with the Palo Alto experiments?
 * Your citations refer to the Palo Alto stock farm, for which Palo Alto Stock Farm Horse Barn seems the closest fit on wikipidia, but it already has a more specific infobox. Joortje1 (talk) 12:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! I've added the request to update the Palo Alto Stock Farm Horse Barn article. Thank you for looking into this and finding the real place for the landmark. Greg Henderson (talk) 15:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Eadweard Muybridge


text:
Talk:Rhesus macaque

Macaque / human DNA difference
The article currently says humans and macaques share about 93% of their DNA sequence. The BBC report at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6550865.stm says rhesus macaque, chimp and humans share about 97.5% of the same genes and, following the link to Science, I found The average 3% difference between macaque and human genes... in http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/316/5822/216

I've asked on User talk:Warbola if he has a reference for the 93% but it looks like it should be 97%. --Cavrdg 18:19, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

 * LA Times: Macaques and humans share about 93% of their genetic information
 * Louisiana State University :The rhesus macaque ... still shares about 93 percent of its genome sequence with humans.
 * VOA News: The macaque genome agrees with the human genome 93 percent, according to Gibbs
 * National Human Genome Research Institute: Overall, the rhesus genome shares about 92 to 95 percent of its sequence with the human
 * Monkeys In The News: Overall, the rhesus genome shares about 92 percent to 95 percent of its sequence with humans
 * Innovations Report, Germany: Overall, the rhesus genome shares about 92 to 95 percent of its sequence with the human (Homo sapiens) and more than 98 percent with the chimpanzee.
 * About the 97.5% in BBC news: Not sure, but it talks about sharing genes, which does not sound same thing to me as sharing genome sequences. Warbola 06:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. The Washington Post has about 97.5 percent similar to those of chimps and humans but I think the nearest thing we have to an original source is the press release from the Human Genome Sequencing Center which has The macaque genome differs by approximately seven percent from that of humans, while chimpanzees are just one to two percent different. I'll add the link to the press release to the article as a reference.--Cavrdg 06:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The most authoritative source is the Science report itself, although that may require a certain amount of interpretation. According to Science, 13 April 2007, 316(5822);222 - 234, DOI: 10.1126/science.1139247, Research Articles: Evolutionary and Biomedical Insights from the Rhesus Macaque Genome [free], the chimpanzee "alignable sequence" is 1-2% different from human, while the human-macaque sequence identity is ~93%.

 * (I think all the rhesus macaque genome stories are free on the web.)

 * I think there are different ways of comparing DNA sequences. Before the days of sequencing entire genomes, they used to mix the different DNAs and measure the hybridization. Now with sequenced species they can line up the actual DNA sequences on computer and compare -- but not all differences are functionally significant. Some coding DNA differences produce the same peptide, while others produce different peptides. Some peptide differences are functionally different, while others don't matter. If a DNA coding sequence in a macaque and a different DNA coding sequence in a human produce the same peptide sequence and presumably the same protein, do you count the DNA sequence as different even though the protein is the same? Or if one peptide is different, but the protein is functionally identical, like insulin, do you count the DNA sequence as different? Suppose 95% of the genes are identical, but 93% of the DNA sequence is identical, including the junk DNA. Which number do you use?

 * I'd go with 93%, unless somebody comes along who knows better. Nbauman 05:33, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

rhesus macaque
Rhesus macaque is the accepted common name for Macaca mulata and generally should not, I believe, be capitalized. Rbogle 17:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * See WP:BIRD (which is referenced by WP:PRIM) for the reason capitals should be used. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed on the lack of need for initial caps. Names of species aren't proper nouns. One doesn't write Cow but cow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 12:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That is not the standard for the articles in the WikiProject Primates. Please read the section in WP:BIRD so that you can be informed instead of making comments out of ignorance. - UtherSRG (talk) 00:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

average age
could someone clarify average life expectancy captive and wild. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/211.shtml reports wild average life expectancy is about 4 years, with 30 years being peak captivity age, pretty big discrepancy, so if possible, the average age in this article should be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.3.42.1 (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Killer Dolphins
I have posted a long comment in the Talk section of the main Macaque genus article, about the renaming of all the macaque species articles to "[Name] Macaque" (e.g. "Barbary Macaque") from their traditionally names (e.g. Barbary Ape).

Would you please take a look at that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Macaque#Killer_Dolphins

And then correct this individual species article as necessary — I'm not sure which macaque species may have actually been called "[Name] Macaque" traditionally.

(And I hope you can see that the fact that I don't know that, after reading a Wikipedia article about the species, is why rewriting reality in Wikipedia is a problem.)

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.180.30.135 (talk) 12:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay but here's the thing though
At what point do we add an "in popular culture" section about Ikea Monkey

at what point — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.88.160.3 (talk) 23:55, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Monkey attacks
I was attacked by a rhesus monkey as a child. They are nasty creatures. They're also known to start fires if given matches. A rhesus troop killed the deputy mayor of New Delhi. In Ubud, Bali, they are trained to steal jewelry and money. Don't mess with monkeys!! Don't look the in the eye -- ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.172.184.53 (talk) 01:49, 19 October 2013 (UTC) Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. Work submitted to Wikipedia can be edited, used, and redistributed—by anyone—subject to certain terms and conditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.75.13.97 (talk) 06:48, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: GEOG 479 Primate Behaviour, Ecology and Conservation
I will be adding into the sections of "Human Conflict", "Conservation Status", and "Distribution and Habitat". Kindly let me know if there is ongoing additions being done in these sections.

— Assignment last updated by Jonathan.diamantstein (talk) 18:26, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Bruh
In the etymology section, it is said that an archaic name for the rhesus macaque is "bruh" with two citation, are they verifiable or is this a new Brazilian aardavark? TheKuygerian contribs userpage 02:03, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I checked both sources (and added the second). Both are available on the Internat Archive. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:01, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * None of the sources actually back this up for the Rhesus macaque. All of them notably mention nemestrinus, which is currently the Southern pig-tailed macaque (but included three other now distinct species). The accounts of "bruh" are also from Bencoolen, (or more widely, Sumatra and Java), and the range of the Rhesus monkey does not extend that far south. This mistake may have been made when reading The Menageries, as page 378 discusses the rhesus monkey directly after discussing the bruh. From context, the native word used is actually "bhunder." See Horsfield's Catalogue for a more explicit distinction between M. nemestrinus referred to as "bruh" and M. rhesus referred to as "rhesus"
 * There also seems to be a discussion about "bruh" on the M. nemestrinus talk page, so not sure if the info should be removed or added to another article. I propose, if the information is to be included in some other article, something along the lines of
 * "In the 19th century, macaques classified in the species nemestrina were sometimes referred to as 'bruh' or 'broh'. Some sources include distinct varieties Bruh sepotong, Bruh selapi, and Bruh puti. These names are derived from native Malayic words for macaques on Sumatra and Java."
 * so it is taken seriously and not seen as a prank edit.
 * Fluxjupyter (talk) 20:32, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That actually seems to be correct; mea culpa - my previous checks were somewhat hasty. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 06:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Rhesus macaque_(Macaca_mulatta_mulatta),_male,_Gokarna.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for March 12, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-03-12. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! — Amakuru (talk) 15:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rhesus macaque


text:
Talk:Fern

Phylogenetic tree
None of the references shown give the topology shown in the cladogram. The cited source (Li et al, 2011) shows the four classes in a four-way polytomy. The consensus phylogeny of Smith et al (2006) places Psilotopsida outside a three-way polytomy of the other classes. None of the three topologies shown in the studies illustrated in Eusporangiate fern match the one in this article either.  Jts1882 | talk 14:52, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Then the cladogram needs urgently to be changed to match at least one of the sources. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:16, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

What is a true fern?
While I don't think there is necessarily an answer, the article uses it two ways. I think just remove the "true" from the latter would make it consistent. —  Jts1882 | talk 16:09, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) In the lede it seems to use it narrowly for leptosporangiate ferns: Ferns are defined here in the broad sense, being all of the Polypodiopsida, comprising both the leptosporangiate (Polypodiidae) and eusporangiate ferns, the latter itself comprising ferns other than those denominated true ferns, including horsetails or scouring rushes, whisk ferns, marattioid ferns, and ophioglossoid ferns.
 * 2) In taxonomy section it is used more broadly: ... while both the whisk ferns and horsetails are as much true ferns as the ophioglossoid ferns and Marattiaceae.
 * Yes, I agree. The changes in the classification of ferns in recent years make any use of the term "true fern" misleading. I'll do it. Peter coxhead (talk) 17:47, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually more changes were needed. The article really needs a thorough review, because parts have clearly been written at different stages in the changing understanding of the phylogeny of the group, and are not well integrated. I've left the Stace-referenced use of "true fern" = "leptosporangiate fern", but there should be some mention of its use to mean "ferns s.l. minus horsetails". Peter coxhead (talk) 17:59, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistency in time period
We have : "Ferns first appear in the fossil record about 360 million years ago in the middle Devonian period"

But according to http://www.stratigraphy.org/ICSchart/ChronostratChart2020-01.jpg, reference used in the article about Devonian, middle devonian goes from roughly 393.3 to 382.7 Ma. Either the value of "360 million" is wrong, either Ferns appeared between the Devonian and Carboniferous (around 358.9 Ma).

Major Topics Missing
I think there are some major missing areas that, if added, would substantially improve the article. Reproduction is only mentioned in passing, but really a whole section or subsection under Ecology is necessary to deal with the differences between fern reproduction and other major plant groups. An additional area that is lacking is any discussion of hybridization. You cannot understand the evolution of ferns and their current biogeography and diversity without at least a brief discussion of hybrid formation. Ptero-ADH (talk) 17:37, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Feel free to improve the article (with sources, of course). Peter coxhead (talk) 21:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, don't forget to improve articles sometimes we need to be bold! Don't hesitate to make the changes you discussed! PrecociousPeach (talk) 00:54, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fern


text:
Bob cut

A bob cut, also known as a bob, is a short to medium length haircut, in which the hair is typically cut straight around the head at approximately jaw level, and no longer than shoulder-length, often with a fringe at the front. The standard bob cut exposes the back of the neck and keeps all of the hair well above the shoulders.

History
Historically, women in the West have usually worn their hair long. Some young girls, actresses and a few "advanced" or fashionable women had worn short hair even before World War I,   such as French actress Polaire, described in 1910 as having "a shock of short, dark hair", a cut she adopted in the early 1890s. The style, however, was not considered generally respectable until given impetus by the inconvenience of long hair to girls engaged in war work.

In 1909, Antoni Cierplikowski, called Antoine de Paris, a Polish hairdresser who became the world's first celebrity hairdresser, started a fashion for a short bob cut. He said it was inspired by accounts of Joan of Arc. In the 1920s, he introduced the “shingle cut”, which became popular with daring young women—the Bloomsbury set and flappers. Among his clients were world-famous female figures such as Coco Chanel, Queen Marie of Romania, Sarah Bernhardt, Greta Garbo, U.S. First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt and Brigitte Bardot.

English society beauty Lady Diana Cooper wore bobbed hair from childhood through adulthood. It has been said that renowned dancer and fashion trendsetter Irene Castle introduced her "Castle bob" to a receptive American audience in 1915, and by 1920 the style was rapidly becoming fashionable. However, it was artist and illustrator Clara Tice who was the first public person who used it the United States. Popularized by film star Mary Thurman in the early 1920s and by Colleen Moore and Louise Brooks in the mid to late 1920s, it was still seen as a somewhat shocking statement of independence in the young women known as flappers, as older people were used to seeing girls wearing long dresses and heavy Edwardian-style hair. Hairdressers, whose training was mainly in arranging and curling long hair, were slow to realise that short styles for women had arrived to stay, and so barbers in many cities found lines of women outside their shops, waiting to be shorn of hair that had taken many years to grow.

Although as early as 1922 the fashion correspondent of The Times was suggesting that bobbed hair was passé, by the mid-1920s the style (in various versions, often worn with a side-parting, curled or waved, and with the hair at the nape of the neck "shingled" short), was the dominant female hairstyle in the Western world. The style was spreading even beyond the West, as women who rejected traditional roles adopted the bob cut as a sign of modernity. Close-fitting cloche hats had also become very popular, and could not be worn with long hair. Well-known bob-wearers were actresses Clara Bow and Joan Crawford, as well as Dutch film star Truus van Aalten.

As the 1930s approached, women started to grow their hair longer, and the sharp lines of the bob were abandoned.

1960s and beyond

In the mid 1960s, Vidal Sassoon made it popular again, using the shape of the early bob and making it more stylish in a simpler cut. Its resurgence coincided with the arrival of the "mop top" Beatle cut for men. Those associated with the bob at that time included fashion designers Mary Quant and Jean Muir; actresses Nancy Kwan, Carolyn Jones, Barbara Feldon, Georgina Ward and Amanda Barrie; and singers as diverse as Keely Smith, Cilla Black, Billie Davis, Juliette Gréco, Mireille Mathieu and Beverly Bivens of the American group We Five. Valentina, the transgressively erotic heroine of a surreal Italian comic strip series created by Guido Crepax in 1965, sported an iconic bob inspired by actress Louise Brooks (as well as by Crepax's own wife Luisa). The bob cut was also popular with African Americans in the mid-to-late 1960s, reflected in such singing groups as Diana Ross & The Supremes and The Marvelettes.

Many styles and combinations of the "bob" have evolved since. In the late 1980s, Siouxsie Sioux, lead singer of Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Corinne Drewery, singer of "Swing Out Sister", had bob cuts for a short time. Singer Linda Ronstadt sported a very "Louise Brooks" inspired bob on the cover of two Grammy award winning albums in the late 1980s: 1987's Trio album with Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris and her 1989 release Cry Like A Rainstorm, Howl Like The Wind. She also wears the cut in the video for her duet with James Ingram, "Somewhere Out There". Annie Potts made an appearance in the supernatural comedy film Ghostbusters II with a bob as she played the character Janine Melnitz. Phoebe Cates's character Elizabeth in the 1991 black comedy film Drop Dead Fred got a bob haircut after getting part of her long black hair cut off. Anna Wintour, editor-in-chief of American Vogue since 1988, apparently had hers trimmed every day (Times 2, 10 July 2006). In the early 1990s Cyndi Lauper had a bob haircut with very unusual colors; soon afterward, the cut became identified with Uma Thurman's character of Mia Wallace in Quentin Tarantino's 1994 film Pulp Fiction. The bob went into hibernation, but eventually became popular again. Natalie Portman sported a bob haircut in the 1994 English-language French action-thriller film Leon: The Professional for her portrayal of her character Mathilda. T-Boz of TLC also had a bob haircut with very unusual colors that was asymmetrical with bangs. Also, for the first two seasons and the first two episodes of the third season of Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, the character of Lois Lane (Teri Hatcher) had a trademark bob haircut. The character of Dr. Laurel Weaver (Linda Fiorentino) from Barry Sonnenfeld's 1997 film Men in Black also sported a bob. Julianne Moore had a bob in the 1998 film The Big Lebowski for her portrayal of Maude Lebowski. Katie Volding, who played Benjamin “Ben” Cooper's little sister Angie in the 1999 Disney Channel TV movie Smart House, had a bob haircut.

2000s revival
In 2006, the bob was adopted by the singer Madonna and, as a move away from boho-chic, by actress Sienna Miller.

In November 2005, Canadian ice dancer Kristina Lenko was asked to join ITV1's new series, Dancing on Ice. She went to her stylist in Toronto and told him "Do whatever you like." He cut Lenko's waist-length hair into what is referred to as an A-line bob, where the hair is shorter in the back and gradually longer toward the front, with the longest pieces toward the front of the face. Later, ex–Spice Girl Victoria Beckham decided to cut her own hair into such a style, helping to raise its popularity worldwide with girls asking hairdressers for a "Pob"—Beckham's nickname Posh Spice conflated with "bob".

In 2007, R&B singer Rihanna had a bob haircut in the video for "Umbrella". She has said that she was inspired by actress Charlize Theron in Æon Flux. Keira Knightley had a bob in her short TV ad for Coco Mademoiselle. Actress Christina Ricci also had a bob for live-action movie version for 60s anime series Speed Racer and later. Katie Holmes got a bob cut with bangs in 2007.

At her third show in Brisbane, Australia, Britney Spears wore the bob throughout her concert. Jenny McCarthy is known for a sporting an A-line bob. Kate Bosworth is said to have popularized the bob in 2008. Shoulder-length bobs became popular after being sported by stars such as Heidi Klum and Jessica Alba. A shaggy version of the bob was popularized by Dianna Agron and Kate Mara.

Types

 * A-line bob: A typical bob cut, with slightly longer hair in front that frames the face, typically curling under the chin.
 * Buzz-cut bob: Where it is shoulder-length in the front and close-cropped at the back.
 * Chin-length bob: Cut straight to the chin, with or without bangs.
 * French bob: Shorter type of bob.
 * Inverted bob: Similar to an A-line bob, but with stacked layers in the back. The perimeter of the cut is curved rather than being a straight line. This cut is also commonly called a "graduated bob".
 * Shaggy bob: A messy bob layered with a razor.
 * Shingle bob: a cut that is tapered very short in the back, exposing the hairline at the neck. The hair on the sides is formed into a single curl or point on each cheek.
 * Shoulder-length bob: A blunt bob that reaches the shoulders and has very few layers.

title: Bob cut


text:
Svefn-g-englar

"Svefn-g-englar" is a song by the Icelandic post-rock band Sigur Rós, from their second album, Ágætis byrjun.

Overview
"Svefn-g-englar" was released as a single in 1999, with two studio recordings — "Svefn-g-englar" (an Icelandic pun mixing "sleepwalkers" and "sleep angels") and "Viðrar vel til loftárása" ("good weather for airstrikes"), both from Ágætis byrjun — and two songs recorded live at the Icelandic Opera House located in Reykjavík — "Nýja lagið" ("new song"), which was never recorded in studio, and "Syndir Guðs" ("God's sins"), from the group's first LP, Von. The single was the first UK release for the band, issued on Fat Cat Records in 1999. On its release, it was named "Single of the Week" in NME. In 2001, it was re-issued, in the United States, on PIAS records. The single is available both on compact disc and 12 inch vinyl, with somewhat different selections of tracks, including "Veröld ný og óð" ("new and old world").

The music video for "Svefn-g-englar" was directed by August Jacobsson. The video features the Perlan special-needs theatre group, an Icelandic acting troupe of men and women with Down syndrome. Choreography was by Lára Stefánsdóttir, and the angel outfits were made by Binna & Nína.

In media

 * "Svefn-g-englar" is used in the Vanilla Sky Soundtrack.
 * "Svefn-g-englar" is on the DVD release of We know where you live
 * It was played over the credits of episode 202 of Queer as Folk.
 * "Svefn-g-englar" is used in the movie Ben X (Belgium) (also on the soundtrack CD).
 * Used in the CSI: Crime Scene Investigation episode, "Slaves of Las Vegas".
 * Used in a nature sequence in Leonardo DiCaprio's The 11th Hour.
 * Portions were used in ABC's V (2009 TV series) in episode 4 of season 1 during the 'Bliss' scene.
 * Used in the first series of Rolf on Art in the episode about Paul Gauguin.
 * Played in the French Canadian film, Café de Flore, released in 2011.
 * Used in the third series of Misfits in the first episode.
 * Used in the French/Canadian sci-fi romance film Upside Down.
 * Used in David Firth's animated short "Alan: An Alternative Superhero".
 * Used in the fourth episode, "Man Down", of History Channel's military drama series SIX.
 * Used in the US movie Beautiful Boy.
 * Used in the US radio program This American Life episode "The Giant Pool of Money".
 * Used in the US movie Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga.
 * Used in the US documentary California Typewriter (2016)
 * Used in the second episode, “Pocket Savior”, of the CBS miniseries The Stand (2020)

CD version

 * 1) "Svefn-g-englar" (single edit) – 9:16
 * 2) "Viðrar vel til loftárása" – 10:13
 * 3) "Nýja lagið" (live at the Icelandic Opera House, June 12, 1999) – 9:28
 * 4) "Syndir Guðs" (live at the Icelandic Opera House, June 12, 1999) – 5:46

12" version

 * 1) "Svefn-g-englar" (single edit) – 9:16
 * 2) "Viðrar vel til loftárása" – 10:13
 * 3) "Veröld ný og óð" – 3:29

title: Svefn-g-englar


text:
Premiers and chief ministers of the Australian states and territories

The premiers and chief ministers of the Australian states and territories are the heads of the executive governments in the six states and two self-governing territories of Australia. They perform the same function at the state and territory level as the Prime Minister of Australia performs at the national level. The King of Australia and the state governors are the formal repositories of executive power; however, in practice they act only on the advice of state premiers and ministers except in extreme circumstances, such as a constitutional crisis.

Background
Each of the Australian states is governed under the Westminster system of parliamentary government. Each state has an elected legislature. Following a general election, the state governor appoints as premier the member of the lower house of the state legislature who can command a simple majority of votes on the floor of the house. The governor is the head of state, and acts only on the advice of the head of government - the premier. The premier must resign the commission to the governor for losing the confidence of the legislative assembly, either because their party is defeated at a general election or losing a vote of confidence in the house. (Premiers may also resign for other reasons, such as losing the confidence of their own party).

The Australian states were founded as British colonies, and executive power was held by a governor (or sometimes a lieutenant-governor) appointed by the British government (see Governors of the Australian states). From the 1820s the power of the governors was gradually transferred to legislative bodies, at first appointed, later partly elected, and finally fully elected. Victoria gained full responsible parliamentary government in 1855, New South Wales, South Australia and Tasmania in 1856, Queensland in 1859 and Western Australia (owing to its much smaller population) in 1890.

Until the rise of the Australian Labor Party in the 1890s, the Australian colonies did not have formal party systems, although many colonial politicians called themselves Liberals or Conservatives. Ministries were usually formed on the basis of personal or factional loyalties, and rose and fell with great frequency as loyalties changed. Colonial politics were commonly regarded as parochial, corrupt and cynical, and in many cases they were. Victorian Premier James Munro, for example, fled the colony to escape his creditors in 1890, and Queensland Premier Sir Thomas McIlwraith was notoriously corrupt.

The rise of Labor forced the colonies to move towards a two-party system of Labor versus non-Labor, although state politics remained more personalised and less ideological than national politics for many years. The first minority Labor government was formed by Anderson Dawson in Queensland in 1899, and the first majority Labor government was led by James McGowen in New South Wales in 1910. Since about 1910 state politics have followed much the same party pattern as Australian national politics (see Politics of Australia).

Since 1952, every premier of every state has been a member of the Australian Labor Party, the Liberal Party of Australia, or the National Party of Australia (until 1973, the Liberal Party was known as the Liberal and Country League in South Australia; the Country Liberal Party is the Northern Territory branch of the Liberal and National Parties; and the Liberal National Party has been the Queensland branch of the same two parties since 2008).

Although the legislative powers of the states are defined in the Constitution, the real power of the Australian premiers has been declining steadily ever since Federation in 1901, as the power and responsibility of the national government has expanded at the expense of the states. The most important transfer of power came in 1943, when in the interests of national unity during World War II the states gave up their power to levy their own income taxes to the Commonwealth. Since then the states' finances have essentially been controlled by the Commonwealth.

Relations between the premiers and other levels of government
For many decades, the premiers met with each other and the prime minister at Premiers' Conferences. From 1992 to 2020, such meetings occurred through the Council of Australian Governments (COAG), which also includes the chief ministers of the territories and a representative of local government. Since 2020, the National Cabinet allows meetings between the prime minister, state premiers and chief ministers of the territories, however local government representation has been removed.

On 21 July 2006, South Australian premier Mike Rann was appointed chairman of a new Council for the Australian Federation, a council which aims to improve state-federal ties.

Timeline
Between 6 March 2002 (when Mike Rann (Labor) succeeded Rob Kerin (Liberal) as Premier of South Australia) and 23 September 2008, when Colin Barnett succeeded Alan Carpenter as Premier of Western Australia, there were Labor Premiers in all six of the Australian states (and Chief Ministers in both territories); this was only the second time a party or coalition has ever achieved this. A comparable feat was achieved by the Coalition between 26 May 1969 (when the Liberals' Angus Bethune succeeded Labor's Eric Reece as Premier of Tasmania) and 2 June 1970 (when the Liberals' Steele Hall was succeeded by Labor's Don Dunstan as Premier of South Australia).

Female heads of government
With the exception of South Australia, every state and territory of Australia has had a female head of government, all but two of whom have represented the Australian Labor Party. They are:
 * Australian Capital Territory:
 * Rosemary Follett 1989, 1991–1995 (first territory and first jurisdiction)
 * Kate Carnell 1995–2000
 * Katy Gallagher 2011–2014
 * Western Australia:
 * Carmen Lawrence 1990–1993 (first state)
 * Victoria:
 * Joan Kirner 1990–1992
 * Jacinta Allan 2023–present
 * Northern Territory:
 * Clare Martin 2001–2007
 * Natasha Fyles 2022–2023
 * Eva Lawler 2023–present
 * Queensland:
 * Anna Bligh 2007–2012
 * Annastacia Palaszczuk 2015–2023
 * New South Wales:
 * Kristina Keneally 2009–2011
 * Gladys Berejiklian 2017–2021
 * Tasmania:
 * Lara Giddings 2011–2014

Of the state leaders, all but Palaszczuk succeeded male premiers of their own party who had resigned mid-term; in three cases (Lawrence, Kirner and Keneally), their predecessors' resignations occurred after losing the support of their parliamentary colleagues; in Allan's case, her predecessor, Daniel Andrews, resigned only ten months after being re-elected in November 2022. The governments led by Lawrence, Kirner, Keneally and Giddings were defeated at the subsequent elections.

Anna Bligh, Annastacia Palaszczuk and Gladys Berejiklian are the only women who have received a popular mandate as premier of an Australian state (21 March 2009, 31 January 2015 and 23 March 2019). Palaszczuk is also the only woman to have led a party from Opposition to Government.

Women have also been elected to the almost-equivalent posts of chief ministers of the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) and the Northern Territory (NT). Rosemary Follett (Labor) was elected as the inaugural Chief Minister of the ACT in 1989, nine months before any woman became premier of a state. Kate Carnell (Liberal), and Clare Martin (Labor) also received popular mandates as chief ministers of the ACT and the NT respectively. Clare Martin was the only one of these three women to lead a majority government.

Of all female premiers and chief ministers, only Clare Martin and Annastacia Palaszczuk have gained re-election after successfully completing a term from election to election. Rosemary Follett did win two consecutive elections, but had an interrupted term of service from 5 December 1989 (when a successful motion of no confidence passed by establishing a new government led by Trevor Kaine) to 6 June 1991 (when another motion of no confidence was passed, this time against Trevor Kaine, re-establishing Follett as chief minister).


text:
Willie Sutton

William Francis Sutton Jr. (June 30, 1901 – November 2, 1980) was an American bank robber. During his forty-year robbery career he stole an estimated $2 million, and he eventually spent more than half of his adult life in prison and escaped three times. For his talent at executing robberies in disguises, he gained two nicknames, "Willie the Actor" and "Slick Willie". Sutton is also known as the namesake of the so-called Sutton's law, although he denied originating it.

Early life
Sutton was born into an Irish-American family on June 30, 1901 in Brooklyn, New York to William Francis Sutton Sr., a blacksmith, and Mary Ellen Bowles. His family lived on the corner of Gold and Nassau Streets in the neighborhood of Irishtown, Brooklyn, now called Vinegar Hill. According to his biography, Where the Money Was, at the age of three the family relocated to High Street. His mother was, according to the biography, born in Ireland; however, according to the 1910 U.S. Census, she was born in Maryland and her parents were born in Ireland. By 1910, she had given birth to five children, of whom three were still alive. According to the 1910 Census, his maternal grandfather, James Bowles, and his two maternal uncles were also living with the family. Sutton was the fourth of five children, and did not attend school after the 8th grade.

Career in crime
Sutton became a criminal at an early age, though throughout his professional criminal career, he did not kill anyone. He was described by Mafioso Donald Frankos as "a little bright-eyed guy, just 5'7" and always talking, chain-smoking ... cigarettes with Bull Durham tobacco." Frankos stated also that Sutton "dispensed mounds of legal advice" to any convict willing to listen. Inmates considered Sutton a "wise old head" in the prison population. When incarcerated at "The Tombs" (Manhattan House of Detention) he did not have to worry about assault because Mafia friends protected him. In conversation with Donald Frankos he would sadly reminisce about the 1920s and 1930s when he was most active in robbing banks and would always tell fellow convicts that in his opinion, during the days of Al Capone and Lucky Luciano, the criminals were the bloodiest. Gangsters from the time period, and many incarcerated organized crime inmates, enjoyed having Sutton for companionship. He was witty and non-violent. Frankos declared that Sutton made legendary bank thieves Jesse James and John Dillinger seem like amateurs.

Sutton was an accomplished bank robber. He usually carried a pistol or a Thompson submachine gun. "You can't rob a bank on charm and personality," he once observed. In an interview in the Reader's Digest published shortly before his death, Sutton was asked if the guns that he used in his robberies were loaded. He responded that he never carried a loaded gun because somebody might get hurt. He stole from the rich and kept it, though public opinion later made him into a type of gentleman thief, like Robin Hood. He allegedly never robbed a bank when a woman screamed or a baby cried.

Sutton was captured and recommitted in June 1931, charged with assault and robbery. He failed to complete his 30-year sentence, however, escaping on December 11, 1932, using a smuggled gun and holding a prison guard hostage. With the guard as leverage, Sutton acquired a 45-ft (13.5 meter) ladder to scale the 30-ft (9 meter) wall of the prison grounds.

On February 15, 1933, Sutton attempted to rob the Corn Exchange Bank and Trust Company in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He came in disguised as a postman, but an alert passerby foiled the crime. Sutton escaped. On January 15, 1934, he and two companions broke into the same bank through a skylight.

The FBI record observes:

Sutton also conducted a Broadway jewelry store robbery in broad daylight, impersonating a postal telegraph messenger. Sutton's other disguises included a police officer, messenger and maintenance man. He usually arrived at banks or stores shortly before they opened for business.

Sutton was apprehended on February 5, 1934, and was sentenced to serve 25 to 50 years in the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, for the machine gun robbery of the Corn Exchange Bank. On April 3, 1945, Sutton was one of 12 convicts who escaped the institution through a tunnel. The convicts broke through to the other side during daylight hours, and were spotted immediately by a passing police patrol. The 12 men were forced to quickly flee the scene, with all being quickly apprehended. Sutton was recaptured the same day by Philadelphia police officer Mark Kehoe.

Sentenced to life imprisonment as a fourth time offender, Sutton was transferred to the Philadelphia County Prison, Holmesburg section of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. On February 10, 1947, Sutton and other prisoners dressed as prison guards carried two ladders across the prison yard to the wall after dark. When the prison's searchlights hit him, Sutton yelled, "It's all right!" No one stopped him.

On March 20, 1950, Sutton was the eleventh listed of the FBI's FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, created only a week earlier, on March 14.

During February 1952, Sutton was captured by police after having been recognized on a subway and followed by Arnold Schuster, a 24-year-old Brooklyn clothing salesman and amateur detective. Schuster later appeared on television and described how he had assisted in Sutton's apprehension. Albert Anastasia, Mafia boss of the Gambino crime family, disliked Schuster because he was a "rat" and a "squealer." According to Mafia renegade and first major government informant, Joe Valachi, Anastasia ordered the murder of Schuster, who was then shot dead outside his home on March 9, 1952.

Judge Peter T. Farrell presided over a 1952 trial in which Sutton was convicted of the 1950 robbery of $63,942 (equal to $0 presently) from a bank of the Manufacturers Trust Company in Sunnyside, Queens. He received a sentence of 30 to 120 years in Attica State Prison.

While in prison, Sutton wrote "I, Willie Sutton", a book about his life and career. Co-authored with Quentin Reynolds, the book was published in 1953.

In December of 1969, Farrell ruled that Sutton's good behavior, along with his deteriorating health, justified commuting his sentence to time served. At the hearing Sutton responded, "Thank you, your Honor. God bless you," and wept as he was led out of the court building.

In 1976, Sutton published his second book, Where the Money Was, co-authored with journalist Ed Linn.

After his release, Sutton delivered lectures on prison reform and consulted with banks on theft-deterrent techniques. He made a television commercial for New Britain Bank and Trust Company in Connecticut for their credit card with picture identification on it. His lines were, "They call it the 'face card.' Now when I say I'm Willie Sutton, people believe me."

Personal life and death
Sutton married Louise Leudemann in 1929. She divorced him while he was in jail. Their daughter Jeanie was born the next year. His second wife was Olga Kowalska, whom he married during 1933. His longest period of (legal) employment lasted for 18 months.

A series of decisions by the United States Supreme Court during the 1960s resulted in his release on Christmas Eve, 1969, from Attica State Prison. He was in ill health at the time, suffering from emphysema and in need of an operation on the arteries of his legs.

Sutton died in 1980 at the age of 79; before this, he had spent his last years with his sister in Spring Hill, Florida. He frequented the Spring Hill Restaurant where he kept to himself. After Sutton's death, his family arranged a quiet burial in Brooklyn in the family plot.

"Sutton's law"
A famous apocryphal story is that Sutton was asked by reporter Mitch Ohnstad why he robbed banks. According to Ohnstad, he replied, "Because that's where the money is." The quote evolved into Sutton's law, which is often invoked to medical students as a metaphor for emphasizing the most likely diagnosis, rather than wasting time and money investigating every conceivable possibility.

In his autobiography, Sutton denied originating the pithy rejoinder:

"The irony of using a bank robber's maxim as an instrument for teaching medicine is compounded, I will now confess, by the fact that I never said it. The credit belongs to some enterprising reporter who apparently felt a need to fill out his copy. I can't even remember where I first read it. It just seemed to appear one day, and then it was everywhere.

If anybody had asked me, I'd have probably said it. That's what almost anybody would say ... it couldn't be more obvious."

However, he also said:

"Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that's all."

The Redlands Daily Facts published the earliest documented example of Sutton's law on March 15, 1952 in Redlands, California.

A corollary, the "Willie Sutton rule," used in management accounting, stipulates that activity-based costing (in which activities are prioritized by necessity, and budgeted accordingly) should be applied where the greatest costs occur, because that is where the greatest savings can be found.

title: Willie Sutton


text:
Sampling theory

sampling theory may mean:

 * Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem, digital signal processing (DSP)
 * Statistical sampling
 * Fourier sampling

title: Sampling theory