text:
Timeline of chess

This is a timeline of chess.

Early history

 * 6th century – The game chaturanga probably evolved into its current form around this time in India.
 * 569 – A Chinese emperor wrote a book of xiangqi, Xiang Jing, in AD 569.
 * c. 600 – The Karnamuk-i-Artakhshatr-i-Papakan contains references to the Persian game of shatranj, the direct ancestor of modern Chess. Shatranj was initially called "Chatrang" in Persian (named after the Indian version), which was later renamed to shatranj.
 * c. 720 – Chess spreads across the Islamic world from Persia.
 * c. 840 – Earliest surviving chess problems by Caliph Billah of Baghdad.
 * c. 900 – Entry on Chess in the Chinese work Huan Kwai Lu ('Book of Marvels').
 * 997 – Versus de scachis is the earliest known work mentioning chess in Christian Western Europe.
 * 10th century – As-Suli writes Kitab Ash-Shatranj, the earliest known work to take a scientific approach to chess strategy.
 * late 10th century – Dark and light squares are introduced on a chessboard.
 * 1008 – Mention of chess in the will of Count Uregel, another early reference.* 1173 – Earliest recorded use of a form of Algebraic Chess Notation.
 * 1283 – Alfonso X compiles the Libro de los juegos, with an extensive collection of chess problems.
 * late 13th century – Pawns can now move two ranks on first move.
 * late 14th century – The en passant rule is introduced.
 * 1422 – A manuscript from Kraków sets the rule that stalemate is a draw.
 * 1471 – The Göttingen manuscript is the first book to deal solely with chess.
 * 1474 – William Caxton publishes The Game and Playe of Chesse, the first chess book in English.
 * 1475–1525 – Castling and the modern moves for the queen and bishop are slowly adopted.
 * 1475 – Scachs d'amor the first published game of modern chess, written as a poem.
 * 1493 – Hartmann Schedel publishes the Nuremberg Chronicle. It mentions the invention of chess by the philosopher Xerxes in Babylon during the rule of Evil-Merodach, the son of Nebuchadrezzar and illustrates the citation with a woodcut of Xerxes.
 * 1497 – Luis Ramirez Lucena publishes the earliest surviving work on the modern European game.

16th century

 * 1510 – Marco Girolamo Vida wrote Scacchia ludus (The Game of Chess) with the first reference to a goddess of chess.
 * 1512 – Pedro Damiano publishes one of the first chess treatises, Questo libro e da imparare giocare a scachi et de li partiti. One of the oldest surviving manuscripts to detail chess strategy, Damiano's work gives the earliest known refutation of an unsound chess opening. This opening, the Damiano Defense is named in his honor. The Damiano Variation of the Petrov Defense will also later be named for Damiano's work, appearing in a game in which Damiano (playing white) takes advantage of poor play by Black to fork his King and Queen.
 * 1561 – Inspired by Damiano's previous written work, Spaniard chess player Ruy López writes his book Libro de la invención liberal y arte del juego del axedrez, in which he coins the word gambit to describe opening sacrifices.
 * 1575 – The first known championship between Chess Masters is held in Madrid, between Italian masters Giovanni Leonardo and Paolo Boi along with Spanish masters Ruy López and Alfonso Ceron. Leonardo wins, with Boi placing second, López third, and Ceron fourth.

17th century

 * 1620-24 – Gioachino Greco writes a number of manuscripts on Chess strategy, giving the first known descriptions of Fool's Mate and Smothered Mate, as well as detailing a number of opening traps. His overall strategy promotes aggressive play. Most of Greco's games feature the King's Gambit Accepted or Giuoco Piano, and his work is greatly influential in popularizing both of these openings throughout the rest of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries.
 * 1634 – Alessandro Salvio publishes Il Puttino, a book describing Italian Chess masters of the previous century.
 * 1690 – Openings are now systematically classified in the book Traité du Jeu Royal des échets, published in 1675 in Lausanne, France by the printer David Gentil (author unknown). This book is known by the nickname Traite de Lausanne.

18th century

 * 1737 – Philipp Stamma publishes Essai sur le jeu des échecs. The book features an early form of algebraic notation (for example, '1. e4 e5' in modern notation would be written as 'p e 4 | p e 5' in Stamma's). The first half primarily concerns opening theory, with particular emphasis on various opening gambits, and the second half gives the first detailed exploration of endgame theory.
 * 1744 – 🇫🇷 François-André Danican Philidor (FRA) plays two opponents blindfolded in Paris.
 * 1745 – Philipp Stamma's work is translated from French to English, and published as 'The Noble Game of Chess'.
 * 1747 – Philidor decisively defeats Stamma in 8/9 games while visiting London, instantly gaining international fame.
 * 1763 – Sir William Jones invents Caïssa, the chess muse.
 * 1769 – Baron Wolfgang von Kempelen builds the Mechanical Turk, a fake chess-playing humanoid "machine" in fact operated secretly by a human.
 * 1783 – Philidor plays as many as three games simultaneously without seeing the board.

19th century

 * 1802 – Earliest known American chess book, Chess Made Easy by J. Humphreys is published.
 * 1813 – The Liverpool Mercury prints the world's earliest chess column.
 * 1824 – Earliest known British correspondence chess match, London – Edinburgh is held.
 * 1830 – Earliest recorded instance of a modern female chess player.
 * 1834 – Earliest recorded international challenge match is held: 🇮🇪 Alexander McDonnell (IRL) versus 🇫🇷 Louis de la Bourdonnais (FRA) at the Westminster Chess Club, London.
 * 1843 – 🏴 Howard Staunton (ENG) wins a match against 🇫🇷 Pierre Charles Fournier de Saint-Amant (FRA) in Paris.
 * 1845 – Telegraph is used to transmit moves in a match between London and Portsmouth.
 * 1846 – Deutsche Schachzeitung is the first German chess magazine.
 * 1848 – Earliest known instance of a game played between blind players.
 * 1849 – The Staunton chess set is created by Nathaniel Cooke.
 * 1851 – First international tournament is held in London, and won by Adolf Anderssen.
 * 1852 – Sandglasses are first used to time a game.
 * 1857 – First American Chess Congress, won by 20-year-old 🇺🇸 Paul Morphy (USA), causes a chess epidemic across the U.S.
 * 1857 – The United Kingdom Chess Association is formed.
 * 1858 – The California Chess Congress is held in San Francisco, won by Selim Franklin
 * 1859 – Paul Morphy is acclaimed as the world's strongest player after two years of international play against the world's leading players in the US and Europe. However, he was unable to secure even a single game against Staunton.
 * 1861 – Games are played via transoceanic cables (Dublin–Liverpool).
 * 1867 – Mechanical game clocks are introduced in tournament play.
 * 1870 – Earliest recorded tournament in Germany (Baden-Baden).
 * 1871 – Durand publishes the first book on endgames.
 * 1873 – The Neustadtl score system is first used in a tournament.
 * 1874 – Chess codexes written by 16th century Italian master Giulio Cesare Polerio are rediscovered by Antonius van der Linde. van der Linde recognizes that Polerio's work likely had greatly influenced the later works of Greco, and feature a nearly modern form of algebraic notation.
 * 1877 – Formation of the Deutsche Schachbund.
 * 1879 – First New Zealand Chess Championship, the longest running national chess championship in the world.
 * 1883 – Invention of Forsyth-Edwards Notation, a notation used to describe any possible chess position.
 * 1884 – Morphy dies.
 * 1886 – First official World Chess Championship match is held between Wilhelm Steinitz and Johannes Zukertort. Steinitz wins decisively with the score 12½–7½ to become the first official World Chess Champion.
 * 1888 – First international correspondence tournament.
 * 1888 – U.S. Chess Championship starts.
 * 1894 – Emanuel Lasker defeats Steinitz in a world championship match to become the second official world champion.
 * 1895 – Hastings 1895 chess tournament at Hastings, England.
 * 1899 – Chess clocks now have timeout flags to indicate that a player's time has run out.

20th century

 * 1902 – First radio chess match by players on two American ships.
 * 1904 – British Chess Federation (BCF) is established.
 * 1905 – British national championship for women starts.
 * 1907 – Lasker – Marshall World Championship match in several US cities.
 * 1910 – 🇨🇺 José Raúl Capablanca (CUB) is the first to win a major tournament (in New York) with a 100% score.
 * 1911 – The first simultaneous exhibition with more than 100 participants is held.
 * 1913 – Publication of H. J. R. Murray's book A History of Chess.
 * 1913 – The grasshopper is the first fairy piece invented, having its origin in the Renaissance "leaping queen".
 * 1919 – Capablanca gives a simultaneous in the House of Commons against 39 players.
 * 1921 – The first British correspondence chess championship is held.
 * 1921 – Capablanca defeats Lasker in Havana +4 −0 =10 to become the third official world champion. However, Lasker had resigned the title to Capablanca in 1920 and the match participants had agreed that Capablanca was the defending champion in the match.
 * 1924 – Establishment of Fédération Internationale des Échecs (FIDE), the international chess federation.
 * 1924 – Staunton set officially adopted by FIDE.
 * 1927 – The first official Chess Olympiad is held in London.
 * 1927 – Alexander Alekhine defeats Capablanca at Buenos Aires with +6 −3 =25 to become the fourth official world champion.
 * 1935 – 🇳🇱 Max Euwe (NLD) wins the world championship title from Alekhine in Zandvoort, the Netherlands +9 −8 =13 and becomes the fifth official world champion.
 * 1937 – A record for simultaneous blindfold play against 34 opponents.
 * 1937 – Alekhine regains his champion title from Euwe in The Netherlands +10 −4 =11.
 * 1941 – Basic Chess Endings by Reuben Fine published.
 * 1945 – USA vs USSR radio match is the first international sporting event after World War II. The USSR scores an overwhelming victory.
 * 1946 – Reigning world champion Alekhine dies in Portugal, leaving the title vacant. FIDE moves to gain control of the world championship.
 * 1947 – The first postage stamp with a chess motif was printed by Bulgaria.
 * 1948 – Mikhail Botvinnik wins the 1948 World Chess Championship tournament, which was held jointly at the Hague (in the Netherlands) and Moscow. He becomes the sixth official world champion.
 * 1949 – Claude Shannon speculates on how computers might play chess.
 * 1950 – FIDE introduces the International Grandmaster (GM) and International Master (IM) lifetime titles to indicate chess achievement.
 * 1950 – The first Candidates Tournament is held in Budapest. David Bronstein wins after a playoff against Isaac Boleslavsky.
 * 1951 – Botvinnik retains his title after the World Championship match with challenger Bronstein ends in a 12–12 tie.
 * 1951 – The first World Junior Chess Championship held.
 * 1952 – The Soviet Union begins its string of Chess Olympiad victories.
 * 1953 – Vasily Smyslov wins the Candidates Tournament at Zurich.
 * 1954 – Botvinnik retains his title after the World Championship match with challenger Smyslov ends in a 12–12 tie.
 * 1956 – Smyslov wins the Candidates Tournament in Amsterdam. Paul Keres finishes second.
 * 1957 – Smyslov defeats Botvinnik by the score 12½–9½ and becomes the seventh official world champion.
 * 1958 – Botvinnik defeats Smyslov in a rematch by the score 12½–10½ to regain the title.
 * 1958 – 🇺🇸 Bobby Fischer (USA) qualifies for the 1959 Candidates Match, becoming the youngest ever Grandmaster. This record would stand until 1991.
 * 1959 – Mikhail Tal wins the Candidates Tournament in Yugoslavia. Keres finishes second.
 * 1960 – Tal defeats Botvinnik +6 −2 =13 to become the eighth official world champion and the then youngest-ever world champion.
 * 1961 – Botvinnik defeats Tal in a rematch by the score +10 −5 =6 to regain the title.
 * 1962 – Tigran Petrosian wins the Candidates Tournament in Curaçao, going through the tournament without a defeat. Keres finishes second in a Candidates Tournament for the third consecutive time.
 * 1963 – Petrosian defeats Botvinnik 12½–9½ to become the ninth World Chess Champion.
 * 1965 – Boris Spassky wins Candidates Matches against Keres, Efim Geller, and Tal.
 * 1966 – Petrosian successfully defends his World Championship title against Spassky, 12½–11½.
 * 1967 – 🇩🇰 Bent Larsen (DNK) wins the Sousse Interzonal after Fischer withdraws after ten games while leading with 8½ points. Larsen also wins the first Chess Oscar.
 * 1969 – Spassky defeats Petrosian 12½–11½ to become the tenth World Chess Champion.
 * 1970 – Fischer wins the Palma de Mallorca Interzonal 3½ points ahead of his nearest rival.
 * 1971 – Fischer blazes through his Candidates Matches, defeating Mark Taimanov and Larsen each 6–0, and Petrosian by 6½–2½. Fischer establishes a 20-game winning streak in 1970 and 1971.
 * 1972 – Fischer beats Spassky in the World Chess Championship 1972 12½–8½. Due to its status as Cold War sporting confrontation, the match receives worldwide publicity.
 * 1975 – Anatoly Karpov becomes the twelfth World Champion without having defeated the reigning champion as Fischer forfeits his crown.
 * 1977 – Female player Nona Gaprindashvili wins the men's tournament at Lone Pine.
 * 1978 – Gaprindashvili becomes the first woman to receive the FIDE Grandmaster title.
 * 1978 – FIDE Master (FM) introduced as a title below International Master.
 * 1978 – First Sargon (chess) chess-playing software for personal computers introduced at the 1978 West Coast Computer Faire.
 * 1981 – Karpov convincingly defeats challenger Viktor Korchnoi six wins to two to retain the World Championship.
 * 1984 – In a controversial decision, the FIDE president abandons the World Championship match between defending champion Karpov and challenger Garry Kasparov after 48 games, with Karpov leading 5–3.
 * 1985 – Kasparov defeats Karpov to become the thirteenth World Chess Champion 13–11.
 * 1986 – The musical Chess opens in London's West End.
 * 1991 – 🇭🇺 Judit Polgár (HUN) becomes the youngest ever Grandmaster, breaking Bobby Fischer's record by about a month.
 * 1992 – Fischer beats Spassky in a match in FR Yugoslavia in a rematch of the 1972 World Championship.
 * 1993 – Searching for Bobby Fischer motion picture released (in the United Kingdom as "Innocent Moves").
 * – Kasparov and 🏴 Nigel Short (ENG) break from FIDE to play their world championship match, forming the Professional Chess Association (PCA).

 * 1996 – Deep Blue beats Kasparov in the first game won by a chess-playing computer against a reigning world champion under normal chess tournament conditions. Kasparov recovers to win the match 4–2 (three wins, one loss, two draws).
 * 1997 – Kasparov loses a rematch to chess supercomputer Deep Blue (2½–3½), becoming the first World Champion to lose a match to a computer.
 * 1999 – Kasparov plays and wins against "the World" whose moves were determined by plurality of votes via the Internet.
 * 2000 – Kasparov loses his title to 🇷🇺 Vladimir Kramnik (RUS) (8½–6½). Kramnik becomes the PCA World Chess Champion.

21st century

 * 2001 – FIDE introduces shortened time controls for the knockout world championship held later that year, amid controversy.
 * 2002 – 🇷🇺 Sergey Karjakin (RUS) becomes the youngest ever Grandmaster at age 12 years and 7 months.
 * 2003 – In two separate matches, Kasparov battles Deep Junior and X3D Fritz to draws. These would be the last notable human–computer chess matches that did not result in victory for the computer.
 * 2004 – 🇺🇿 Rustam Kasimdzhanov (UZB) wins the FIDE World Chess Championship 2004 by beating 🏴 Michael Adams (ENG) in the final.
 * 2004 – Kramnik successfully defends his title in the Classical World Chess Championship 2004 against 🇭🇺 Peter Leko (HUN).
 * 2005 – 🇧🇬 Veselin Topalov (BGR) wins the FIDE World Chess Championship 2005 with 10/14 (+6 −0 =8).
 * 2006 – World Chess Championship reunited when "Classical" (technically, first PCA then Braingames) World Champion Kramnik defeats FIDE World Champion Topalov in the FIDE World Chess Championship 2006 match.
 * 2007 – 🇮🇳 Viswanathan Anand (IND) becomes the fifteenth World Chess Champion after winning the World Chess Championship 2007 tournament held in Mexico City. Anand finished the tournament with a score of 9/14 (+4 −0 =10).
 * 2008 – Fischer dies in Iceland at age 64.
 * 2008 – Anand successfully defends his title against Kramnik in the World Chess Championship 2008.
 * 2009 – Eighteen-year-old 🇳🇴 Magnus Carlsen (NOR) wins the super-grandmaster (Category 21) Nanjing Pearl Spring Tournament, scoring an undefeated 8–2 in the double round robin event. Carlsen's performance rating for the tournament is 3002, one of the highest in history, and his rating goes over 2800, making him the fifth player (and by far the youngest) to attain that rating level.
 * 2009 – Kasparov and Karpov play each other once more, as a commemoration of their first World Championship Match 25 years earlier.
 * 2010 – Anand defends his world title against Topalov in the World Chess Championship 2010.
 * 2011 – 🇮🇱 Boris Gelfand (ISR) wins the 2011 Candidates tournament and qualifies to challenge Anand in the World Chess Championship 2012.
 * 2012 – Carlsen achieves an Elo rating of 2861, surpassing Kasparov's record of 2851. Anand successfully defends his world title against Gelfand.
 * 2013 – Carlsen defeats Anand to become the new world champion.
 * 2014 – Carlsen reaches his top Elo rating of 2882, the highest in history, in May.
 * 2014 – Carlsen successfully defends his title of World Champion in a match against Anand, who had won the Candidates Tournament.
 * 2016 – Carlsen successfully defends his World Champion title against Karjakin (who had won the Candidates Tournament in Moscow in March) by winning rapid tiebreak games after drawing a 12-game classical-game match.
 * 2018 – Carlsen successfully defends his World Champion title against Caruana by winning rapid tiebreak games after drawing a 12-game classical-game match.
 * 2020 – Chess experiences a spike in popularity due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the Netflix miniseries The Queen's Gambit.
 * 2021 – 🇺🇸 Abhimanyu Mishra (US) becomes the youngest ever Grandmaster at the age of 12 years 4 months and 25 days.
 * 2021 – Carlsen successfully defends his World Champion title against 🇷🇺 Ian Nepomniachtchi (RUS) after 11 rounds of the 14-round match.
 * 2022 – Carlsen announces the news that he would no longer defend his World Champion title, letting the next world champion be decided in between the winner 🇷🇺 Ian Nepomniachtchi (RUS) and the runner-up 🇨🇳 Ding Liren (CHN) of the 2022 Candidates Tournament.
 * 2023 – Ding defeats Nepomniachtchi after tie-breaks, to become the new World Champion.

title: Timeline of chess


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Talk:NationStates

Doubts about mentions of Drew Durnil in introductions
He already has a section about the flooding, so why would we need to mention this in the introductory paragraphs? Also, I have some more information about him that I’ll try to get sources for. Sometaintedlove (talk) 16:56, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:16, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * RMB for The Rejected Realms region in NationStates.png

Dark mode?
Many of the photos taken in this article are in dark mode, however, this makes it very difficult to see certain things, and also the default mode is far more widely used. Jeremy Beatson (Use this button to talk to me) 03:15, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Concur, pictures should be re-done in light mode. Ifly6 (talk) 19:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Whoops, forgot to reply to this. I replaced the image in dark mode with my own image in light mode. -- Waffledogefern (talk) 20:14, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

too much detail
There is a lot of stuff in the article here which really ought to be viewed as excessive detail and trivial content. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:INDISCRIMINATE. In such instances, delete details that can be reasonably removed. Big long sections about what some raider or defender group did in some operation are not relevant to NationStates, for the same reasons the United Kingdom article is not padded with irrelevant cruft about what Theresa May ate for breakfast on her last day as prime minister.

A substantial number of sources are also self published. See WP:SELFPUBLISH. They should be removed. Ifly6 (talk) 19:27, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Should we add a secton or info about the discontinued NationStates 2?
read header dude heya. this is a random post from someone who plays NationStates. Here, a link. Rc453632 My user page. Also, I did this with four tildes, or these wobblers. 03:16, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:NationStates


text:
Shrek 2

Shrek 2 is a 2004 American animated fantasy comedy film loosely based on the 1990 children's picture book Shrek! by William Steig. Directed by Andrew Adamson, Kelly Asbury, and Conrad Vernon (in Vernon's feature directorial debut) from a screenplay by Adamson, Joe Stillman, and the writing team of J. David Stem and David N. Weiss, it is the sequel to Shrek (2001) and the second installment in the Shrek film series. The film stars Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy and Cameron Diaz, who reprise their respective voice roles of Shrek, Donkey, and Princess Fiona. They are joined by new characters voiced by Antonio Banderas, Julie Andrews, John Cleese, Rupert Everett, and Jennifer Saunders. Shrek 2 takes place following the events of the first film, with Shrek and Donkey meeting Fiona's parents as the zealous Fairy Godmother, who wants Fiona to marry her son Prince Charming, plots to destroy Shrek and Fiona's marriage. Shrek and Donkey team up with a sword-wielding cat named Puss in Boots to foil her plans.

Development began in 2001, and following disagreements with producers, the first film's screenwriters Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio were replaced with Adamson. The story was inspired by Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (1967), and new animation tools were utilized to improve the visual appearance of each character, particularly Puss in Boots. The lead actors also received a significant bump in salary to $10 million, which at the time was among the highest contracts in their respective careers. Like its predecessor, Shrek 2 also parodies other films based on fairy tales and features references to American popular culture. The film is dedicated to the memory of Shrek creator William Steig, who died on October 3, 2003, eight months before the film was released.

Shrek 2 premiered at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival on May 15, 2004, where it competed for the Palme d'Or, and was released in theaters on May 19, by DreamWorks Pictures. Met with highly favorable reviews like its predecessor, the film grossed $935 million worldwide. It scored the second-largest three-day opening weekend in United States history and the largest opening for an animated film at the time of its release. It went on to become the highest-grossing film of 2004 and the fifth-highest-grossing film overall at the time of its release. Shrek 2 is also DreamWorks Animation's highest-grossing film to date and the highest-grossing film released by DreamWorks Pictures, and it held the title of being the highest-grossing animated film of all time worldwide until Pixar Animation Studios' Toy Story 3 surpassed it in 2010. The film received two Academy Award nominations for Best Animated Feature and Best Original Song, and its associated soundtrack charted in the Top 10 on the US Billboard 200. Two sequels—Shrek the Third (2007) and Shrek Forever After (2010)—had soon followed. The film's character Puss in Boots has also received his own series of spin-off media—Puss in Boots (2011), The Adventures of Puss in Boots (2015–2018) and Puss in Boots: The Last Wish (2022)—following his debut.

Plot
Newlyweds Shrek and Princess Fiona return from their honeymoon to find they have been invited by Fiona's parents to a royal ball to celebrate their marriage. Fiona convinces a reluctant Shrek that they should accept, and they travel to the kingdom of Far Far Away with Donkey in tow. They meet Fiona's parents, King Harold and Queen Lillian, who are shocked to see the ogres, with Harold particularly repulsed. At dinner, Shrek and Harold get into a heated argument, and Fiona, disgusted at their behavior, locks herself away in her room. Shrek worries that he is losing Fiona, particularly after finding her childhood diary and reading that she was once infatuated with Prince Charming.

Harold is secretly reprimanded by the Fairy Godmother, who had arranged with Harold for her son Prince Charming to marry Fiona. She orders Harold to get rid of Shrek or else lose his own happy ending, so Harold arranges for local outlaw Puss in Boots to assassinate the ogre.

Unable to defeat Shrek, Puss reveals that he was paid by Harold and offers to be an ally. Shrek, Donkey, and Puss sneak into the Fairy Godmother's factory and steal a "Happily Ever After" potion that Shrek thinks will make him good enough for Fiona. He and Donkey drink the potion, lament that nothing seems to be happening, and then suddenly fall asleep. Back in Far Far Away, Fiona prepares to find Shrek so they can return home, but she too falls asleep.

The next morning, Shrek, Donkey, and Fiona awaken to find that the two ogres are now humans, and Donkey is a white stallion. In order to make the change permanent, Shrek must kiss Fiona by midnight. Shrek, Donkey, and Puss return to the castle; however, the Fairy Godmother, having discovered the theft, has sent Charming to pose as human Shrek and win Fiona's love. At the Fairy Godmother's urging, Shrek leaves the castle, believing that the best way to make Fiona happy is to let her go.

Fiona is skeptical of Charming; therefore, to ensure the two will wed, the Fairy Godmother gives Harold a love potion to put into Fiona's tea. This exchange is overheard by Shrek, Donkey, and Puss, who are arrested by the royal knights after Donkey inadvertently exposes them. While a royal ball begins, the fairy tale creatures whom Shrek and Donkey had met during their previous adventure arrive at the dungeon and rescue the trio. They all storm the castle with the help of a monstrous living gingerbread man created by the Muffin Man.

Shrek fails to prevent Charming from kissing Fiona, but instead of falling in love, Fiona headbutts him. Harold reveals that he swapped Fiona's tainted teacup with his own, unable to go through with the plot. Enraged, the Fairy Godmother tries to strike Shrek with a spell from her magic wand. Harold jumps in front of it, reverting into the Frog Prince; some of the spell ricochets off his armor, knocking the Fairy Godmother backwards. Appearing unharmed at first, the Fairy Godmother furiously aims her wand at Shrek again, but before she can deliver the final blow, the spell causes her to explode and evaporate into bubbles.

With the Fairy Godmother gone, Harold apologizes, admitting to using the "Happily Ever After" potion years earlier to gain Lillian's love. He approves Shrek and Fiona's marriage, while Lillian assures Harold that she still loves him. As the clock strikes midnight, Fiona declines Shrek's offer to remain human, and they revert into ogres, while Donkey also returns to normal. In a mid-credits scene, Dragon, who had previously married Donkey, reveals that they now have several dragon-donkey hybrid babies.

Voice cast

 * Mike Myers as Shrek
 * Eddie Murphy as Donkey
 * Cameron Diaz as Princess Fiona
 * Julie Andrews as Queen Lillian
 * Antonio Banderas as Puss in Boots
 * John Cleese as King Harold
 * Rupert Everett as Prince Charming
 * Jennifer Saunders as Fairy Godmother
 * Joan Rivers as Red Carpet Announcer
 * Kate Thornton provides the voice for the UK version
 * Larry King as Doris the Ugly Stepsister
 * Jonathan Ross provides the voice for the UK version
 * Aron Warner as Big Bad Wolf
 * Cody Cameron as:
 * Pinocchio
 * The Three Little Pigs
 * Christopher Knights and Simon J. Smith as Three Blind Mice
 * Conrad Vernon as:
 * Gingy
 * Muffin Man
 * Mongo
 * Cedric
 * Announcer
 * Chris Miller as Magic Mirror
 * Mark Moseley as Dresser
 * Kelly Cooney Cilella as Fast Food Clerk
 * Kelly Asbury as:
 * Page
 * Elf
 * Nobleman
 * Nobleman's son
 * Andrew Adamson as Captain of the Guard

 * Cameos
 * Joan Rivers' cameo as herself marked the first time that a real person had been represented on screen by the Shrek animation team. Her part (though retaining her visual representation) was re-dubbed by presenter Kate Thornton for the United Kingdom release.
 * Simon Cowell appears as himself on Far Far Away Idol, a parody of American Idol, on the DVD special features and just before the credits on the U.S. VHS edition (see Home Media).

Production
In 2001, soon after the original Shrek proved to be a hit, Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy, and Cameron Diaz negotiated an upfront payment of $10 million each for voicing a sequel to the film. This pay increase represented a significant rise from the $350,000 salary that each of the three were paid for the first film. According to Jeffrey Katzenberg, the executive producer of Shrek 2 and a co-founder of DreamWorks Pictures, who led the negotiations, the payments were probably the highest in the actors' entire careers. Each of the actors were expected to work between 15 and 18 hours in total. The film was produced with a $70 million budget.

Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio, the screenwriters of the first Shrek film, insisted that the sequel be a traditional fairytale, but after disagreements with the producers, they left the project and were replaced by director Andrew Adamson. His writing of Shrek 2 was inspired by the 1967 comedy-drama film Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, and was completed with the help of the film's co-writers Joe Stillman (one of the other writers from the first film), and screenwriting duo J. David Stem and David N. Weiss, and co-directors, Kelly Asbury and Conrad Vernon, the latter two of whom spent most of the film's production duration in Northern California while Adamson spent most of his time with the film's voice actors in Glendale, California.

DreamWorks began production of Shrek 2 in 2001, before the first Shrek film was completed. The studio added more human characters to the film than there were in its predecessor and improved character appearance and movement with the use of several new animation/rendering systems. In particular, Puss in Boots necessitated development of a whole new set of film production tools to handle the appearance of his fur, belt, and hat plume; Puss' fur especially required an upgrade to the fur shader. All of the character setup was completed in the first three years of production.

In an early version of Shrek 2, Shrek abdicated the throne, and called for a fairy tale election. Pinocchio's campaign was an "honesty" campaign, while Gingy's was a "smear" campaign. Adamson said that although this plot did have many funny ideas, it was also too overtly satiric and political, and considered "more intellectual than emotional". Shrek 2 also appears much darker in terms of lighting when compared to the original film. Designers reportedly took inspiration from 19th century French illustrator and engraver Gustav Doré to improve the film's richness of detail and setting. According to production designer Guillaume Aretos, "There are a lot of medieval paintings and illustrations [and] my own influences, which are classical paintings from the 15th and 16th centuries...The design of Shrek is always a twist on reality anyway, so we tried to [pack] as much detail and interest as we could in the imagery."

Soundtrack
The soundtrack for Shrek 2 was composed solely by Harry Gregson-Williams, who returned after composing the score for the first Shrek film, marking it as his fifth film with DreamWorks Animation. The soundtrack reached the 8th position on the US Billboard 200 and 1st on the US Soundtracks (Billboard). It also features two versions of the 1980s Bonnie Tyler hit "Holding Out for a Hero".

Release
In April 2004, the film was selected to compete for the Palme d'Or at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival.

Shrek 2 was originally scheduled for release on June 18, 2004. The film was then moved forward from June 18, 2004, to May 21, 2004; however, due to "fan demand", it was released two days earlier from May 21, 2004, to May 19, 2004. A day before the film went to theaters, the first five minutes were shown on Nickelodeon's U-Pick Live.

Playing in 4,163 theaters over its first weekend in the United States, Shrek 2 was the first film with over 4,000 theaters in overall count. Over 3,700 theaters was its count for an opening day.

In July 2014, the film's distribution rights were purchased by DreamWorks Animation from Paramount Pictures (owners of the pre-2005 DreamWorks Pictures catalog) and transferred to 20th Century Fox before reverting to Universal Pictures in 2018.

The film was theatrically re-released in the United States for one week beginning on April 12, 2024 in celebration of its twentieth anniversary.

Home media
Shrek 2 was released on VHS and DVD on November 5, 2004 and on Game Boy Advance Video on November 17, 2005. It became one of the best-selling DVD releases of all time with over 37 million copies being sold grossing $458 million.

A 3D-converted version of the film was released exclusively with select Samsung television sets on Blu-ray on December 1, 2010, along with the other three films of the series. A non-3D version was released on December 7, 2010, as part of the Shrek: The Whole Story box set, and a stand-alone Blu-ray/DVD combo pack was released individually on August 30, 2011, along with the other two films of the series. A stand-alone 3D Blu-ray version of the film was released on November 1, 2011. The DVD release features two full-length commentary tracks, one by co-directors Conrad Vernon and Kelly Asbury, and a second by producer Aron Warner and editor Michael Andrews. Shrek 2 was released on Ultra HD Blu-ray on November 22, 2022, by Universal Pictures Home Entertainment.

Far Far Away Idol
Far Far Away Idol is a special feature on the DVD and VHS release based on American Idol and guest starring Simon Cowell. Taking place right after Shrek 2 ends, the short features characters from Shrek compete in a sing-off while being judged by Shrek, Fiona, and Cowell.

After the performances, on the DVD release, the viewer gets to pick the winner. If any character besides Shrek, Fiona, Donkey, or Puss is selected, an alternate ending plays where Cowell would refuse to accept the winner and proclaim himself the victor, leaping onto the judging table and performing his "own" rendition of "My Way". At the end of the VHS release, it gives a link to a website where the viewer can vote for their favorite to determine the ultimate winner. DreamWorks Animation announced on November 8, 2004, three days after the DVD and VHS release, that with 750,000 votes cast, the "winner" of the competition was Doris.

Box office
The film opened at No. 1 with a Friday-to-Sunday total of $108 million, and $129 million since its Wednesday launch, from a then-record 4,163 theaters, for an average of $25,952 per theater over the weekend. At the time Shrek 2s Friday-to-Sunday total was the second-highest opening weekend, only trailing Spider-Mans $114.8 million. In addition, Saturday alone managed to obtain $44.8 million, making it the highest single-day gross at the time, beating Spider-Man's first Saturday gross of $43.6 million. The film remained at No. 1 in its second weekend, expanding to 4,223 theaters, and grossing another $95.6 million over the four-day Memorial Day weekend, narrowly beating out the $85.8 million four-day tally of new opener The Day After Tomorrow. It spent ten weeks in the weekly Top 10, remaining there until July 29, and stayed in theaters for 149 days (roughly twenty-one weeks), closing on November 25, 2004. The film was released in the United Kingdom on July 2, 2004, and topped the country's box office for the next two weekends, before being dethroned by Spider-Man 2.

The film grossed $441.2 million domestically (US and Canada) and $487.5 million in foreign markets for a total of $935.3 million worldwide, making it the highest-grossing film of both 2004 and in its franchise. This also puts the film at 14th on the all-time domestic box office list and 42nd on the worldwide box office list. The film sold an estimated 71,050,900 tickets in the US.

The film also took away the highest worldwide gross made by an animated feature, which was before held by Finding Nemo (2003), although the latter still had a higher overseas-only gross. With DVD sales and Shrek 2 merchandise estimated to total almost $800 million, the film (which was produced with a budget of $150 million) is DreamWorks' most profitable film to date.

Shrek 2 remained the highest-grossing animated film worldwide until the release of Toy Story 3 (2010), and held the record for the highest-grossing animated film at the North American box office until the release of Finding Dory (2016) as well as the highest-grossing non-Disney animated film at this box office until the release of The Super Mario Bros. Movie in 2023. It also remained the highest-grossing non-Disney animated film worldwide until it was surpassed by Despicable Me 2 in 2013.

Critical response
Shrek 2 received positive reviews from critics. has an approval rating of based on  professional reviews on the review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, with an average rating of. Its critical consensus reads, "It may not be as fresh as the original, but topical humor and colorful secondary characters make Shrek 2 a winner in its own right." Metacritic (which uses a weighted average) assigned Shrek 2 a score of 75 out of 100 based on 40 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews". Audiences polled by CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of "A" on an A+ to F scale.

Roger Ebert gave the film three out of four stars, saying it is "bright, lively, and entertaining", and Robert Denerstein of Denver Rocky Mountain News called it "sharply funny". James Kendrick of QNetwork praised the plot, calling it "familiar, but funny". J. R. Jones of the Chicago Reader called it "unassailable family entertainment", and similar to the first film. Michael O'Sullivan of The Washington Post called it "better and funnier than the original".

Though he wrote that it is not as good as the first film, Kevin Lally of Film Journal International described it as "inventive and often very funny". Peter Rainer of New York magazine, however, stated the film "manages to undo much of what made its predecessor such a computer-generated joy ride."

Sean Naughton of Complex described it as "one of the best-animated sequels ever".

Accolades
Shrek 2 was nominated for the Palme d'Or at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. It won five awards at the 31st People's Choice Awards: Favorite Animated Movie, Favorite Animated Movie Star for "Donkey" (Eddie Murphy), Favorite Movie Comedy, and Favorite Movie Villain for "Fairy Godmother" (Jennifer Saunders), and Favorite Sequel. It also won a Teen Choice Award in the category of Choice Award Choice Movie – Comedy. The film was nominated at the 3rd Visual Effects Society Awards in the category of "Outstanding Performance by an Animated Character in an Animated Motion Picture."

Along with Shark Tale, the film was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Animated Feature, but lost to The Incredibles. One of the film's songs, "Accidentally in Love" received nominations for the Academy Award for Best Original Song, Golden Globe Award for Best Original Song, and the Grammy Award for Best Song Written for a Motion Picture, Television or Other Visual Media.

In 2008, the American Film Institute nominated the film for its Top 10 Animation Films list.

Video games

 * Shrek 2 (2004)
 * Shrek 2 Activity Center: Twisted Fairy Tale Fun (2004)
 * Shrek 2: Beg for Mercy (2004)
 * Shrek SuperSlam (2005)
 * Shrek Smash n' Crash Racing (2006)

Novels
Shrek 2: The Movie Storybook was published by Scholastic in 2004. It was written by Tom Mason and Dan Danko and illustrated by Michael Koelsch.

Sequels and spin-offs
Shrek 2 was followed by two sequels; Shrek the Third was released on May 18, 2007, while Shrek Forever After was released on May 21, 2010. A fifth Shrek film is in development, releasing on July 1, 2026.

A spin-off film Puss in Boots was released on October 28, 2011, and focuses on the character of Puss in Boots, who was introduced in this film. On November 6, 2018, it was reported by Variety that Chris Meledandri had been tasked to reboot both Shrek and Puss in Boots, with the original cast potentially returning. Puss in Boots: The Last Wish was released on December 21, 2022. It is a sequel rather than a reboot.

title: Shrek 2


text:
Talk:Banknotes of the pound sterling

Other overseas territories
Article currently lists Saint Helena, Gibraltar, and Falklands. What about Cayman Islands and Bermuda (both overseas territories with their own currencies)?

Pictures Pls
maybe make the british pound designs a table like the USD wikipedia page to see the designs.

Page Move
I would like to request this page be moved to "Sterling banknotes", as the pound sterling is a unit of sterling and not the name of the currency itself. The pages for the banknotes of the mainland Chinese currency are not titled "banknotes of the renminbi yuan" for example.TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 00:08, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

 * I disagree. This article has been stable for many years under its current name with the terminology agreed on throughout. doktorb wordsdeeds 04:56, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Just because something has not been changed for many years does not mean a discussion cannot take place, there are ongoing debates about the names of many articles.
 * Also I believe you should have begun a discussion with me before simply reverting my last edits just because you disagree with them, that's a good way of starting an edit war. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 12:54, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * No, you're not supposed to make the edits until they're agreed. You have to justify the changes, not me. I'm here to keep the stable version. doktorb wordsdeeds 18:04, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I concur with TheCurrencyGuy's proposal. The article is about sterling banknotes in general, not just those for £1. Yes, the popular press likes to use the the expression "the pound" as a nickname for sterling, as it uses "the yuan" for Renimbi, but that simplistic model is too inaccurate for an article like this. I support the request to move.
 * (For such a significant change, however, it is usually best to propose it at the talk page first.) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I did propose the change here, @Doktorbuk reverted an edit I had made to the body of the text, I didn't move it myself without making a request here.TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 18:04, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I misunderstood you to have actually moved the article. So in the circumstances, what did was valid: you made a bold edit, they reverted it per WP:BRD, so here we are. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see some statistics about which out of "pound" and "sterling" comes top for commonality, because I doubt "sterling" even comes close to "pound". --  AxG /  ✉  19:35, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * "Pound" is informal usage though, it is the name of the largest unit of the currency against which the values of other currencies are measured, not of the currency generally. Until 1970 the lineup of banknotes included the 10 shilling note, which was one of the most commonly used notes, while the value of that note was half of one pound, it was never referred to as a "half pound" note. Some colonial currency boards issued 5 shilling, 2 shilling and 6 pence, 2 shilling and even 1 shilling notes. Stocks of notes in these denominations were even produced by the Bank of England during the Second World War as a contingency plan for if silver for the striking of coins became scarce TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 20:55, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ngram gives us a clue: pound,pound sterling,sterling. The numbers are very small but "pound" is obviously top, "sterling" about half and "pound sterling" trails in a very long way behind. Of course this is just looking at all sorts of books: if anyone knows how to restrict to banking and finance, we might get a better perspective. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * quite so. As titled, the article should only describe pound notes: Bank of England £1 note, The Royal Bank of Scotland £1 note, etc., which would be pedantic and pointless. The current content of the article is valid, it is the infobox (at least) and title that are inappropriate to that content.
 * I invite those sceptical of the idea to look at Bank of England note issues: the lead contains this: Of the eight banks authorised to issue sterling notes in the UK, only the Bank of England can issue banknotes in England and Wales, where its notes are legal tender. Not pound notes, not pound sterling notes, just sterling notes. And it is precisely correct in that expression. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * If one uses the "British English" option something remarkable happens: at many points the word "sterling" occurs more frequently than "pound", but "pound sterling" still lags a distant third. "Sterling notes" vs. "pound sterling notes" yields a pretty conclusive answer. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 00:49, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I also decided to check "GBP" vs. "STG": the results were quite interesting, while more results overall since 1992 are recorded for "GBP"; "STG" doesn't disappear and still records a notable number of hits. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 01:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * On investigating the results returned, "stg." (all lowercase) does seem to be marginally more common than the uppercase variant. The uppercase version seems to have enjoyed a peak of popularity between the 1950s and the 1980s, which is when many of the physical offline sources I have access to were published, possibly because some popular typefaces at the time were uppercase only (like the iconic Microgramma), so my bias in favour of the uppercase variant may have been influenced by the material I was familiar with. I believe therefore it might be most efficacious to cite "stg." as the banking standard abbreviation (several finance glossaries digitised on Google books list it), while noting "STG" as a variant. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 04:02, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * DISAGREE on moving this to 'Sterling banknotes' and the 'Pound Sterling' page to 'Sterling'. Can't this debate be relegated to the 20th century when pennies & shilling sterling were still relevant and significant currency units? To today's 21st century audience a pound can't even buy a bus ride or chocolate bar, and UK tourists never ask for pence sterling. UK currency today is all pounds and modern web search results confirm exactly that, so please put the Pound Sterling issue to rest. This debate could be valid in the future with the TON STERLING worth 2,000 pounds. But not today. Thanks. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 04:01, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The penny sterling is a relevant currency unit, stock traders sometimes quote stock prices in penny sterling for precision, some other currencies have no divisions at all, while others officially have them but no longer issue coins for them. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 04:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And if the tourists are from Italy, they say sterline. Oppa, you need a better argument than wp:IDONTLIKEIT and rather silly straw men (and you mean short ton, a US measure).--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:55, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ones from Turkey say sterlin, the Turkish word for units whose native name is "pound". And that's quite right on the short ton, the British long ton is 2,240lb. The reason the currency is called "sterling" and not named after a specific coin or unit of account is because until the adoption of the gold standard amounts of money were defined according to weights of sterling silver, hence the pennyweight for example. I'm sure a foreign visitor would feel cheated if his foreign currency was rounded down to the nearest pound on conversion, because despite the inflation problems that have been plaguing the currency since the war it is still one of the largest currency units. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 12:50, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Encyclopedia Britannica, the great repository of British knowledge, precisely puts 'pound sterling' front-and-center as Britain's monetary unit. In turn it links to 'sterling' as a standard for silver purity. And EB has been refereed references way longer than Wiki, no?
 * EB and the rest of us are not hung up at all with 'pound sterling' as British currency so let's leave it as such. 'Sterling' is silver purity in modern popular minds, and secondarily a descriptive for British currency. 'Pound sterling' nails it unambiguously as modern British currency.
 * The casual wiki reader's already getting cognitive dissonance over recent edits with UK currency changed from the more concrete 'pound sterling' to the more ambiguous 'sterling' (which is either the currency, the silver fineness, and the original 8th century coin). And EB describing 'sterling' as the 8th century English coin is probably the best front-and-center definition if only to help explain its two modern-day meanings.

 * https://www.britannica.com/topic/pound-sterling
 * Pound sterling, the basic monetary unit of Great Britain, divided (since 1971) decimally into 100 new pence. The term is derived from the fact that, about 775, silver coins known as “sterlings” were issued in the Saxon kingdoms, 240 of them being minted from a pound of silver, the weight of which was probably about equal to the later troy pound. Hence, large payments came to be reckoned in “pounds of sterlings,” a phrase later shortened to “pounds sterling.
 * https://www.britannica.com/art/sterling-metallurgy
 * sterling, the standard of purity for silver.

 * Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 15:40, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Encyclopaedia Britannica has been an American publication since 1901. In any case, the 1911 definition given by Britannica uses "Sterling (currency)". The 1911 edition has a different entry for "pound" as a unit of currency, but does not call it "pound sterling". TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 16:36, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You also have no basis elevating 'sterling' to exactly the same status as 'RMB' and to the exclusion of 'pound sterling'. Modern China created the word 'renminbi' from inception to exclusively mean the 'people's currency' post-1949. While 'sterling' went through a millennia-long evolution, from the penny coin, to either a silver standard, or the British currency.
 * 'Renminbi' leads to a single unambiguous definition. 'Sterling' leads to two modern-day definitions and one historical definition. For this reason alone this 'sterling' wiki adventurism should be put to an end. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 15:49, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The name "sterling" for that grade of silver was derived from the type of silver used in the coinage. Apart from some periods of debasement, such as under Henry VIII, the coins were struck in sterling silver all the way up to 1920. It was the "pound" as a unit of account that changed over time not the grade of metal the currency was produced from. There was never a silver or gold coin called a "pound", coins worth (approximately, with some fluctuation) one pound existed, but had their own names: such as unite, laurel, carolus, broad, guinea and sovereign, but because the value of gold fluctuated in relation to silver, the basis for the currency until 1816, the nominal value was subject to change, Of these coins only the sovereign was always worth exactly one pound. This was why the guinea was never called the "guinea sterling", because when it was produced as a circulation coin it was a gold coin so it could fluctuate in relation to the value of the silver shilling coins in your purse, this was why it had its nominal rating against silver coin fixed at 21 shillings instead of "one pound". even though it was originally intended to represent the pound unit. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 16:31, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, the word "pound" also has multiple meanings: it can mean a unit of currency, the action of "pounding" something, a unit of weight etc. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 16:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Also we don't have the benefit of cutting off the 'pound' from the 'sterling'. I'm looking at British money now and it says 'pound'. I don't see 'sterling'.
 * If 'pound sterling' is how Britannica describes its hometown's currency unit, and on British currency is printed 'pound' and almost-never 'sterling', then 'sterling' will only alienate the majority of readers seeing 'pounds' right now on British coins and banknotes.
 * NB. The 'renminbi' is issued by China's 'renmin yinhang' (the people's bank), which it's written in Chinese and even in Romanised 'pinyin' for foreigners to read. 'Sterling' doesn't enjoy such prominence, sadly.
 * https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/British_12_sided_pound_coin_reverse.png
 * https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Bank_of_England_%C2%A35_obverse.jpg
 * Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 18:14, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It is true that banknotes issued by the Bank of England do not say "sterling", but banknotes issued by Scottish and Northern Irish banks do. American banknotes do not proclaim themselves to be denominated in "United States dollars" TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 18:29, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And hence we stay with 'pound sterling'. 'Sterling' or even 'Sterling (currency)' being unhelpful when 'sterling' isn't even printed on the most common 'calling cards' of British currency right now - coins and Bank of England notes. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 18:46, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Currencies do not necessarily use their full names on denominations, the example you cited with the Renminbi is just the Romanisation of the name of the issuing bank, not the name of the currency itself. Chinese banknotes read "x yuan", not "x Renminbi yuan". TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 18:50, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In Chinese you say 100 yuan. Append with 100 yuan 'renminbi' to make sure you don't pay in HKD or TWD. Luckily 'renmin' has the benefit of being printed on their currency as clear reference. 'Sterling' suffers from its total absence in currency, sadly. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 18:58, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * "Renmin" is just the Chinese word for "people", it isn't some helpful reminder of the name of the currency.
 * As the Renminbi article itself notes, the words "Renminbi" and even "yuan" are rarely used in vernacular Chinese. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 19:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

And hence the multi-definition “pound” and multi-definition “sterling” should yield to the unambiguous “pound sterling”. As the oldest living currency expect “sterling” to have accreted multiple modern definitions. And it’s doesn’t have the benefit of a fresh start that “renminbi” exactly enjoys in modern usage. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 17:01, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * But in this case, it is "banknotes of", so no ambiguity arises. If the proposal was to move the article pound sterling you might have a point but it is not. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * "Sterling (currency)" actually sounds like a good compromise on the name of that article if we decide to move this one. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 17:25, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I suspect (can't prove, just a suspicion) that the term "pound sterling" is an American one. British sources (keep in mind this article uses British English) call it "sterling", informally "the pound" in newspapers or television news reports, but never the "pound sterling". When a person says "50 pounds sterling" he is saying "50 pounds in sterling". One can also simply say "50 sterling", omitting "pound" completely when the unit is inferred by the amounts quoted. This is common in press releases on business deals or government financial statistics, where instead of "500 thousand pounds" it may say "500 thousand sterling" or "500 thousand stg". TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 17:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * OGS, it is worth observing that, in the long history of sterling, the pound was only a unit of account – a coin weighing even a troy pound would be wildly impracticable. Most people dealt in silver pennies, the rich in silver shillings. Gold had no intrinsic value beyond its price in silver. So the key point it is sterling that is the world's oldest currency still in use, not the pound (or the shilling or the penny, for that matter). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Until the 13th century there weren't even any actual denominations above the penny, when the groat was introduced. It wasn't until the 15th century that a shilling coin (initially called the testoon) was issued. Until the early modern period amounts over a shilling were rarely needed in most transactions, so coins of higher units of account were either very rarely encountered or completely absent. This is why there are many turns of phrase revolving around the penny, such as "a penny for your thoughts", "penny wise and pound foolish" (ie. thrifty (maybe even stingy or selfish) with paltry sums but wasteful with large amounts), "take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves" (because once you've saved up 240 pennies you'll have a pound, a considerable sum at one time) and the like. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 18:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Everyone, we are writing these articles for the 21st century audience. We're not writing wiki for Shakespeare. And to today's audience, 'pound' is the final word linking 'pound sterling' to that 'five-pound note' in your pocket.
 * Take away 'pound' and it's pure chaos. You're left with a word 'sterling' that's (1) loaded with centuries of meaning as silver purity, currency, type of coin, etc. and (2) today's reader can never figure out from the five pound note!
 * Hence it's 'pound sterling' in the interest of communicating it universally. Stop cancelling 'pound sterling' in our simple desire for clarity, unambiguity and inclusiveness. And not my fault if 'sterling' already seems cancelled in Bank of England notes.
 * Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 21:02, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * People don't spontaneously fall into confusion when confronted with the word "sterling". I do not see it as particularly confusing or obscure. When a well known (but inaccurate) turn of phrase is common enough we set up redirects so it always delivers the questioner to the right article, thus making protestations about "appealing today's audience" a moot point. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 21:20, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I feel the case for a move to "Sterling banknotes", "Sterling coinage" and "Sterling" or "Sterling (currency)" is a very strong one. If banknotes are described generally they are called "sterling notes", not "pound sterling notes". I do not see how there can be any more confusion in a casual reader with this article than in the Renminbi article, especially as existing links will redirect here. Ngram seems to bear this out, at no point does "pound sterling notes" receive more hits than "sterling notes".TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 14:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Then open an WP:RM, and see what others think of your idea. --  AxG /  ✉  15:00, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Indeed I will, I just wanted to discuss it first before opening one. Thank you. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 15:02, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Reminder: this request to move is about Banknotes of [the pound] sterling. It is not a request to move a different article
Much of the discussion above since about 04:00 UTC today seems to have wandered off into a discussion about the article pound sterling. That is a discussion for another place at another time. Would editors please try to focus on this RTM. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:37, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Multiple page requests are being made both for 'pound sterling' and 'banknotes of pound sterling'. See link below. It just happens some momentum and feedback already occurred here. By my comment in the other tag get consensus there (banknotes) before moving forward here (pound sterling) we settle the fate of two pages here at once. And I'm in favor of no changes to (1) pound sterling, (2) banknotes of pound sterling, and while we're at it let's also throw in (3) coins of pound sterling.
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pound_sterling#Move_request
 * Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 23:54, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Might as well throw my penny's worth in too.
 * I am strongly in favour of moving (1) Pound sterling to Sterling or Sterling (currency), (2) Banknotes of the pound sterling to Sterling banknotes and (3) Coins of the pound sterling to Sterling coinage TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 00:08, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
 * That is irrelevant to this discussion. Keep it for its own article (but I suggest that it is almost certainly a bridge too far and definitely not to be pursued in parallel with this discussion). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Here are some citations that show that the BoE routinely uses the word "Sterling" alone as the name of the currency. The first one explitly refers to "sterling [bank]notes. If it is good enough for the Bank of England, then it should be good enough for Wikipedia. See also Sterling crisis. Not pound crisis, not pound sterling crisis. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Annual amounts outstanding of consortium banks' sterling notes in circulation total (in sterling millions) not seasonally adjusted
 * Currently banks with UK private sector sterling deposits or sterling loans over £1,000mn, total assets over £3,000mn or eligible liabilities over £400mn report data on a monthly basis.
 * "However, following massive rises in interest rates and intervention in the foreign exchange markets that failed to move sterling from the floor of the ERM,"

Requested move 28 June 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. Ordinarily this sort of withdrawal isn't permitted once "support" !votes have been cast, but this request has become such a hot mess of apparent sock votes and other acrimonious discussion and confusion, that it seems best to leave it for now, with no prejudice for a re-nomination in future. I'd recommend for a future RM, focusing the request on either Pound sterling along, or the banknotes/coins articles alone, as some people may support one of those moves and not the other, and it leaves it clearer. — Amakuru (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

– I believe it would be more appropriate that this and related articles be at "Sterling banknotes". "Sterling coinage" and "Sterling" or potentially "Sterling (currency)" because in all but FOREX listings it is typically described as such. One refers to "sterling notes" or "sterling banknotes" when generally speaking of them, adding "pound/s sterling" if discussing a specific sum of money (although this too may sometimes be omitted when the amount described means it obviously refers to the pound unit, such as "millions in sterling" or "40 million sterling", omitting any problems one might encounter if one simply said "pounds"). As mentioned, the Bank of England often describes the currency as "sterling" with no unit specified. There are far more results for "sterling" when one searches the archives of the British Parliament than the specific term "pound sterling". According to Ngram the phrase "sterling notes" always produces more hits than "pound sterling notes". Ngram also produces many more more results for "sterling" than "pound sterling". Pound is at the top in that graph, but that could refer to any number of historic and circulating currencies so is not particularly helpful in narrowing down a currency name. Perhaps more useful is searching "prices in sterling" vs. "prices in pound sterling", apart from a spike in the early 1960s Ngram produces no recent results at all for "prices in pound sterling". Searching "prices in sterling" vs. "prices in pounds sterling" produces more recent hits for "prices in pounds sterling", but "prices in sterling" is still far ahead. If one switches the language to British English, the language of this article, the results tip even further in the direction of "sterling" alone.
 * Banknotes of the pound sterling → Sterling banknotes
 * Coins of the pound sterling → Sterling coinage
 * Pound sterling → Sterling (currency)

AMMENDMENT: "Sterling (currency)" instead of "Sterling", have struck out the initial suggestion and settled on the second option.

 * The Office for National Statistics, a major government body dealing with trade and economic statistics consistently uses either "sterling" or "the pound", but never both. It speaks of the "Sterling exchange rate", not the "Pound sterling exchange rate".
 * The Bank of England, the Central Bank of the United Kingdom, routinely uses "sterling" without the "pound" unit moniker attached.
 * NatWest describes the currency here as "the UK sterling currency"
 * The UK government's own website calls the currency "sterling"
 * Reuters uses either "sterling" or "the pound", but only rarely "the pound sterling".

According to WP:TITLEVAR topics closely linked to a specific English-speaking country should use that nation's variety of English rather than imposing a different term. In British English "sterling" is the WP:COMMON NAME as well as the official name of the currency. WP:IDONTLIKEIT or usage by non-British English sources is not a valid reason to object to the official name. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 15:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC) *:FOREX sources tend to use "pound sterling" because they are specifically measuring the strength of the pound unit against other currency units. CNBC and Britannica are American publications so their usage should be taken with a degree of caution. Earlier editions of Britannica used "Sterling (currency)". "Great Britain pound" is a backronym from the ISO code, not an actual name anybody would use, just like how CNY is not an abbreviation of the name of Mainland China's currency. Common terms used in banking and news about financial and business affairs are "non-sterling purchase fee", "sterling surplus", "sterling deficit", "sterling crisis", "sterling devaluation" etc. The Office for National Statistics refer to "Sterling exchange rates" not "pound sterling exchange rates", lending further creedance to "sterling". TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 16:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose (pound sterling → sterling at least). The common name is either "pound," "pound sterling" or "Great Britain pound." It most certainly is not "sterling." See BBC CNBC Financial Times Britannica. (In addition, there is no indication that the currency is the primary topic for sterling; see other uses at Sterling.) -- Vaulter  16:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

*:The model I am following is that of the Renminbi article. While "Chinese yuan" or "Renminbi yuan" would be more recognisable to a worldwide audience, it is not an accurate representation of the name of the currency. "Sterling (currency)" would be an acceptable compromise in my opinion. One of the reasons I support the primacy of "sterling" as a currency over that of sterling silver is that the silver grade is named after the currency, as it was the grade of silver British coins were struck in until the 20th century. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2022 (UTC) *:There is a solution, by using the disambiguation "Sterling (currency)", as it was listed in the 1911 Britannica, I consider this an acceptable middle ground and I would be prepared to help produce a section or subsection on the "pound" specifically. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 19:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC) *:I would however like to draw attention to WP:TITLEVAR: If a topic has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation, the title of its article should use that nation's variety of English (for example, compare Australian Defence Force with United States Secretary of Defense). "Pound sterling" appears to be a compromise compound name originating in American English. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 15:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. OP does not argue that this is the primary topic here, and I am not convinced it is primary over Sterling silver.  In the circumstances I think natural disambiguation is more appropriate.  Per WP:CRITERIA I'd also argue that moving to sterling would make this article even less consistent with similar articles (which are mostly named in the form Ruritanian groat), and that sterling is significantly less recognisable than pound sterling to a worldwide audience.  I'd note that much of the evidence presented by the OP does not demonstrate very much.  For example, in this ngram search, it is literally impossible for there to be more references to "pound sterling" than to "sterling", because all references to "pound sterling" are also references to "sterling".  I'd also note that it makes no sense to consider data all the way back to 1800 in this context. Kahastok talk 17:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support Banknotes of the pound sterling → Sterling banknotes and Coins of the pound sterling → Sterling coinage; oppose Pound sterling → Sterling
 * The name of the currency is sterling: that is the name that the Bank of Englnad uses [see citations at end of preceding section] and the name used in professional media such as The Economist. The Bank of England explicitly uses the phrase "sterling [bank]notes". So if it is good enough for the BoE, what reason short of WP:IDONTLIKEIT to continue to use any other term for the notes and coins. I see no reasonable WP:COMMON NAME argument here. In this case, the current name should be the redirect article.
 * On the other hand, the current article is not just about the currency in the abstract; it also about the pound (the unit) in particular. Indeed it is probably more about the pound than it is about sterling. It is the primary topic in this case. Let it stand.
 * --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose all "Pound" is WP:COMMONNAME and should be included in these titles. Obviously "sterling" would have higher ngram results than "pound sterling" since it also has broader uses for silver and many, many others. "prices in sterling" is likewise an odd phrase to search exactly. "pound notes" is much more common than either term you searched for, and these are probably not results for the Egyptian pound... Reywas92Talk 14:44, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Unsourced speculation where the name originates, but it's commonly used in UK government websites . Reywas92Talk 16:10, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Sterling exchange rate produces almost 3,000 results.
 * Pound sterling exchange rate produces only 9.
 * "In sterling" produces 71,600 results.
 * "In pounds sterling" produces only 9,670 results. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 16:18, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose all per WP:COMMONNAME. 68.43.231.28 (talk) 15:30, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Would you also advocate for Renminbi to be at Chinese yuan for that same reason? TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Oppose all. MOS:RETAIN everything at Pound Sterling. You'll only turn Wiki UK into a pariah with Sterling (ambiguous word). Summarizing the most important points:
 * 1. Pound sterling is a concrete idea as both the currency & the unit. While sterling is an ambiguous concept with three possible meanings - horrible introductory word to readers to describe British currency since it could mean (a) British currency, or (b) high-grade sterling silver or (c) The ancient English currency c 800 that's the namesake of both a, b.
 * 2. Web-search "What is British currency?" and Wiki UK's answer sterling will stick out like a headless chicken. Almost all online searches and references will say it is primarily Pound sterling! and secondary British pound. Web-search simply demands that Wiki UK conforms and not present a headless chicken.
 * 3. Nearly all foreigners know British currency as the pound! Silly to suggest even more new concoctions like sterling (currency) when simple elegant pound sterling mentions its most famous name (pound) plus the currency name (sterling).
 * 4. Also, China's renminbi-yuan is not analogous to sterling-pound. The renminbi name existed right at inception to mean China's post-1949 currency, practically copyrighted. While sterling is a 1,000-year old non-copyright word with one historic meaning (the old coin) and two modern meanings (the sterling silver, or the British currency). Lotsa British stuffs never came from written constitutions (unlike the renminbi law) so stop acting like 'sterling' is in a codified book for you to throw at your hopelessly confused audience.
 * 5. The word sterling never appears on Britain's most prominent circulating media - BoE notes & UK coins. And hey it aint our problem! BoE says I promise to pay the bearer XX pounds. The banknote is the most basic contract between BOE & the user. And sterling aint written in our agreement. Our covenant says (repeat after me) POUNDS. No wonder Brits & all foreigners call it POUNDS & not sterlings - still a good idea to chop off the very word people can still read in BoE notes?
 * 6. This particular website says Pound Sterling already functions as UK currency name in the contemporary sense. Highlights below: http://www.differencebetween.net/business/finance-business-2/difference-between-pound-and-sterling/
 * Everyone is familiar with the currency of the United Kingdom, more commonly known as the pound. Sometimes, however, the word sterling is used to describe the UK currency.
 * The British pound is a type of currency... The pound sterling, generally shortened to just pound, is the certified currency of the United Kingdom (and other territories)
 * The financial term for British pound is pound sterling (abbreviated to stg.).
 * In formal contexts, the full, official name is used – pound sterling (plural: pounds sterling)
 * Pound sterling is also used when there is a need to distinguish the currency of the United Kingdom from that of other countries using (pound) currency, eg Egypt, Lebanon, etc.
 * Sterling (shortened to ster. or stg.) is used when pound sterling is abbreviated. It is the financial term used to stand for the currency...
 * There really is no right or wrong usage of the words “pound” and “sterling.”. UK currency is better known as “pound”. While “sterling” is used in the financial market.
 * 7. From a coding perspective "Banknotes+Coins of the (currency name)" is the way to go. A yet more superior format is "Banknotes of the (country)(currency)" = "Banknotes of the British Pound" but nope Pound Sterling is good enough.
 * 8. Finally, this proposal amounts to little more than historical fetish of little consequence to modern life. The historical should not be an obstruction to the contemporary.
 * We have already received comments opposing to this change in Talk:Banknotes of the pound sterling And I'm now I see this silly seesaw of "pounders" editing to "pound sterling" only for "sterlingers" to revert it. Let's put it to an end, acknowledge that sterling could be a tragic mistake in Wiki intros, and accept the most pragmatic, least controversial word - simple beautiful POUND STERLING. Thanks and vote Oppose. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 20:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * So the Bank of England, the British Government, the Bank of Scotland, the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Ulster Bank, George Soros etc etc are wrong and you are right. Well that settles that then. The articles Sterling crisis and Sterling area clearly need to be renamed to suit your greater knowlege.
 * Yes, the common name is "pound sterling" and that RtM is dead in the water.
 * But the only valid member of "banknotes of the pound sterling" are the £1 notes issued by the BoE and the banks in Scotland and (Northern) Ireland. The £5, £10 etc are not. The only valid members of "coinage of the pound sterling" are the two editions of the One pound (British coin); the 1p–50p coins are not.  --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Your 1st par is clearly a mischaracterization of above point (6) "There really is no right or wrong usage of the words “pound” and “sterling.”." It's self-evident to all readers. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 20:32, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The citation you offered is not a dedicated source for anything, it is a general use site which is not a legitimate source as it is pulled together from other sources. Your obsession with "pound" and apparent total aversion toward "sterling" is unsettling, particularly when the British Government, the Bank of England etc. etc. all regard "sterling" as the currency's name. The "pound sterling" is a UNIT of the currency. I have no idea why Renminbi gets a free pass in your book. Surely as the oldest circulating currency sterling ought to have sufficient established credentials to stand on its own without having to fall back on the practices of the popular press. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a valid reason. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 20:42, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Woe your words apparent total aversion toward "sterling" is unsettling also counts as WP:IDONTLIKEIT, no? Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 20:46, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Expressing a disagreement with an argument is not the same thing as disagreeing with well sourced citations just because it is an exception to practices you think ought to be considered iron-cast rules. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 20:57, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Support all. The precedent set by Renminbi suggests WP:OFFICIAL should override WP:COMMONNAME in this case.88.144.12.208 (talk) 02:50, 30 June 2022 (UTC) — 88.144.12.208 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Support all. The use of Sterling is in line with reputable and reliable English-language sources. The official usage ought to take precedence over colloquial usage. Use of pound sterling is functionally not different from using pence sterling or penny sterling. There are contexts where this is appropriate, but in my opinion it is not appropriate as a term for referring broadly to the currency itself. 2600:1700:1961:AC00:157E:3EC4:901A:BE9E (talk) 03:09, 30 June 2022 (UTC) — 2600:1700:1961:AC00:157E:3EC4:901A:BE9E (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Support all. Given clear context for the sole term Sterling in most monetary discussion, and evidence of official reference in this manner, Pound Sterling should be considered at best a common alternative name but not the primary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vulpelibrorum (talk • contribs) 03:33, 30 June 2022 (UTC) — Vulpelibrorum (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Commentators disqualified for making their first and only comment in this survey as per contributor records.
 * 2600:1700:1961:AC00:157E:3EC4:901A:BE9E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:1700:1961:AC00:157E:3EC4:901A:BE9E
 * 88.144.12.208 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/88.144.12.208
 * Vulpelibrorum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vulpelibrorum Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 03:37, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * According to WP:RMCOMMENT all editors are welcome to comment. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 03:43, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * To be approved by consensus of all editors existent before survey date 28 June 2022. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 03:47, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a link to this? I certainly cannot see it anywhere. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 03:56, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * See WP:SPA. X-750 Rust In Peace... Polaris 04:52, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Posted in Pound Sterling wiki: Dictionary definitions of Sterling and Pound Sterling Talk:Pound_sterling

These dictionary definitions are provided for the final rewrite of article "Pound sterling" and they all agree:
 * Sterling is NOT THE MONEY of the UK. Sterling is the MONEY SYSTEM of the UK - a mere pointer to consult the rules, denominations, coins & notes. And what do the rules say?
 * Cambridge: Pound sterling = money used in the UK. Also: pound = money used in the UK. And finally, pound = unit of money used in the UK
 * Oxford: Pound sterling = unit of money in the UK. Pound = unit of money in the UK. Sterling means "system of UK money" and not "UK money".
 * Sterling = UK money is an obsolete and deprecated definition. Maybe true for the original sterling silver 1d (penny). But not for all other coins. And already struck out of dictionary definitions! So why use this as Wikipedia definition?

So let's review:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/pound-sterling
 * Pound sterling: the official name of the pound used as money in the U.K.
 * 2nd half of sentence: Pound is the money used in the UK
 * 1st half of sentence: Pound sterling is official name of the pound, making it also the money used in the UK.

 * Pound: the standard unit of money used in the U.K. and some other countries
 * Hence Pound is also the standard unit of money used in the UK (pound is the money & the unit)

 * Sterling: the British system of currency, based on the pound
 * Ayyy, Cambridge does not define sterling as the British money! Sterling is merely the SYSTEM OF CURRENCY - the structure of rules on what's lawful, what's your coins, your notes, your units. Sterling is a mere pointer that says "consult the rules". And what do the rules say? See above
 * Officially: The pound sterling is the money used in the UK
 * Colloquially: The pound is the money used in the UK
 * So Cambridge never said sterling is British money. It only said pound sterling is the money used in the UK

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/pound_1?q=pound+sterling
 * Pound sterling: (specialist term for) the unit of money in the UK
 * Pound: the unit of money in the UK
 * Sterling: the money system of the UK, based on the pound

 * Ouch so Oxford also never said sterling is UK money! Only that sterling is UK money system i.e. sterling means "consult the law on British money".
 * And what does the law say? The pound sterling is the unit of money in the UK.

Other dictionaries agree:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/pound-sterling
 * Pound sterling: the official name for the standard monetary unit of the United Kingdom
 * Pound: the unit of money which is used in Britain.
 * Sterling: the money system of Great Britain.

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/pound-sterling Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 03:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Pound Sterling and 'GBP' each means the official currency of the United Kingdom
 * Pound Sterling means the lawful money of the United Kingdom.

 * "Pay in sterling"
 * Pre-1816: pay in sterling silver coins from pennies to crowns
 * Post-1816: sorry the money system is now gold. "Pay in sterling" therefore means "pay according to the rules & the monetary system". "Sterling" now assumes the dictionary meaning "according to the monetary system of the UK" and deprecating the original meaning. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 04:02, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * If "sterling" is so "obsolete and depreciated" how come the Office for National Statistics and the Bank of England use it? Are you suggesting you have superior understanding to the government and the central bank? TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 04:05, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * To be consulted with other editors (minus the three new ones). But dictionaries are WP:RS widely recognized by all, then clearly sterling means 'the money system'. And we will NOT write Wikipedia with a dictionary-conflicting definition! 'Sterling' everywhere means
 * according to UK law' whenever you read it. Or
 * an abbreviation of 'Pound sterling', which is UK money according to dictionaries Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 04:15, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Whether those editors contributions are to be considered is not your decision to make. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 04:19, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We will all be approving a dictionary definition of Pound Sterling very soon! Yeah! See you at the finish line! Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 04:33, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I can smell a decisive irrefutable WP:CON victory! Mwahhh! Please be happy for me and my pound sterlings (oops pounds sterlings lol) Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 05:05, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

 * SHUT DOWN this RFC - I'm quite concerned about a number of newbies showing up, suddenly. GoodDay (talk) 04:40, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'm keeping records and screenshots on everything now. I'm new here so are you familiar how you or a third-party can shut down this RFC? Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 04:46, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd recommend contacting WP:AN & ask an administrator to shut it down. GoodDay (talk) 04:52, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Done - thanks! Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 04:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I am withdrawing this move request for the time being. I may wish to open it up again at a later date, but clearly the situation is far too volatile with too much bad blood to continue.TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 05:22, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

 * @TheCurrencyGuy With you caught redhanded with sockpuppetry Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents you will NEVER get the opportunity for any major Wikipedia edits!
 * MOTION TO CLOSE - consensus reached is REJECTED with no name change to all proposed sites Pound sterling Banknotes of the pound sterling Coins of the pound sterling I'll give this 1/2 day for all to see before we act on it. Closing moves to commence 18:00 UTC. Thank you. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 05:53, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Stop acting as if you are an administrator. You seem intent on waging an all out war with me. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 05:54, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The shilling symbol for pound sterling
The symbol is “d”; NOT /-!! 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E148:901D:C44F:8BDD (talk) 20:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * No, 'd' is for pennies, see £sd. Or just a dash if none (as in "10/-", ten shillings, no pence). The symbol for shillings is s, probably originally a long s, ſ that degraded over time to / (which in old dictionaries is called a solidus). --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Well maybe I’m confused, but I stand corrected (I might have wrote that when I was an IP, I don’t know for sure); but many places use an “s” for shillings. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, shilling on its own might be written as e.g., 5s or 5/- I suspect that Tenniel was following custom and practice when he priced the top hat at 10/6 rather than 10s 6d but maybe it was just a case of which would fit better on the drawing. I'm afraid at this stage you need to start researching reliable sources rather than rely on my version of "as everybody knows". --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Banknotes of the pound sterling


text:
Talk:Middle finger

I put the image in a link with a warning for obvious reasons. That might not be really necessary but I'll be conservative on the first revision. A non-copyrighted image was very easy to get: "Hey, little brother, come here for a second..."

- There's already The finger; can you merge this? Matt 04:18, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC) - Why only the human hand? Why not all primates, or even all quadrupeds or tetrapods? Alun
 * I have begun to redress this unbalance by adding an image of a monkey giving a middle finger. Lesion  ( talk ) 22:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Redundant image?
Do we really need two images for the same gesture? I personally tend to see the second, more angled, version less provokative, and would like to see the former in the The finger article. – Jugalator 14:04, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm shocked how few pictures we have of this, and that this is the best of them. Can someone please take a better one? — Omegatron 00:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I added a picture of a monkey giving a middle finger that I saw on another page. No need to thank me. Lesion  ( talk ) 22:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

finger nail growth
I once read in a Maxim (magazine) that the nail for the middle finger grows the fastest. Is there a reason for this? (Ghostexorcist 02:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC))
 * That doesn't have to be the case. The more you use your fingers the better they supplied with blood, which results in faster nail growth. That's why the nails of pianists grow fastest. I myself experienced this too. --2.246.58.160 (talk) 01:17, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This discussion lacks reliable sources. If there are sources for the claims here, the material may be more appropriate at Finger_nail. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 04:13, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

meaning
doesnt it also mean "up yours"?-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   21:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

romans
The whole Roman meanings of finger gestures is completely unintelligible. Why does a prisoner give the finger to the emperor? "The finger" means the middle finger right? (can't be completely sure, from the article alone) And the thumbs up/down thing is much older than the movie Gladiator.

Also, I agree with the poster above, who proposes merging this with the "the finger" article. TomorrowTime (talk) 19:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I saw a show on Discovery channel that said the whole middle finger and the word pluck you was because they used to cut off the archers finger that he plucked an arrow on a bow with Billyclone (talk) 00:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Wait a minute......
At the top of the article, it says that this page is about the human digit, and that for info on the gesture, you should go to Finger (gesture). Why is there only one paragraph about the actual finger and more info about the gesture? A pyrate's life for me... (talk) 16:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I removed the information regarding the gesture, and also moved the image of the "Middle Eastern" finger to the Finger (gesture) page. Chugger1992 (talk) 00:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! :) A pyrate's life for me... (talk) 16:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

russian middle finger ring
I have noticed lots of Russians using a ring on the middle finger, usually right hand... what does it mean?? I have not found anything...

🖕🏻 Don't see in india beacaus police can catch us 2405:201:2017:807C:C8B0:E734:353A:C66B (talk) 07:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The finger which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The finger which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:31, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

FYI: Merger of related pages
There is consideration of a merger of the pages First finger, Second finger, Third finger and Fourth finger into a new page. Please discuss at Talk:First finger#Merge (2023), and. — HTGS (talk) 23:11, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Middle finger


text:
Complete bipartite graph

{{infobox graph | name = Complete bipartite graph | image = | image_caption = A complete bipartite graph with $m = 5$ and $n = 3$ | automorphisms = $$\left\{\begin{array}{ll}2 m! n! & n = m\\ m! n! & \text{otherwise}\end{array}\right.$$ | vertices = $n + m$ | edges = $mn$ | chromatic_number = 2 | chromatic_index = $max{m, n}$ | radius = $$\left\{\begin{array}{ll}1 & m = 1 \vee n = 1\\ 2 & \text{otherwise}\end{array}\right.$$ | diameter = $$\left\{\begin{array}{ll}1 & m = n = 1\\ 2 & \text{otherwise}\end{array}\right.$$ | girth = $$\left\{\begin{array}{ll}\infty & m = 1 \lor n = 1\\ 4 & \text{otherwise}\end{array}\right.$$ | spectrum = $$\left\{0^{n + m - 2}, (\pm\sqrt{nm})^1\right\}$$ | notation = $K{m,n}$ }}

In the mathematical field of graph theory, a complete bipartite graph or biclique is a special kind of bipartite graph where every vertex of the first set is connected to every vertex of the second set.

Graph theory itself is typically dated as beginning with Leonhard Euler's 1736 work on the Seven Bridges of Königsberg. However, drawings of complete bipartite graphs were already printed as early as 1669, in connection with an edition of the works of Ramon Llull edited by Athanasius Kircher. Llull himself had made similar drawings of complete graphs three centuries earlier.

Definition
A complete bipartite graph is a graph whose vertices can be partitioned into two subsets $V1$ and $V2$ such that no edge has both endpoints in the same subset, and every possible edge that could connect vertices in different subsets is part of the graph. That is, it is a bipartite graph $(V1, V2, E)$ such that for every two vertices $v1 ∈ V1$ and$v2 ∈ V2$, $v1v2$ is an edge in $E$. A complete bipartite graph with partitions of size $|V1| = m$ and $|V2| = n$, is denoted $Km,n$; every two graphs with the same notation are isomorphic.

Examples

 * For any $k$, $K1,3$ is called a star. All complete bipartite graphs which are trees are stars.
 * The graph $K1,4$ is called a claw, and is used to define the claw-free graphs.
 * The graph $K1,5$ is called the utility graph. This usage comes from a standard mathematical puzzle in which three utilities must each be connected to three buildings; it is impossible to solve without crossings due to the nonplanarity of $K1,6$.
 * The maximal bicliques found as subgraphs of the digraph of a relation are called concepts. When a lattice is formed by taking meets and joins of these subgraphs, the relation has an Induced concept lattice. This type of analysis of relations is called formal concept analysis.

Properties

 * Given a bipartite graph, testing whether it contains a complete bipartite subgraph $K4,7$ for a parameter $p$ is an NP-complete problem.
 * A planar graph cannot contain $K1,k$ as a minor; an outerplanar graph cannot contain $K1,3$ as a minor (These are not sufficient conditions for planarity and outerplanarity, but necessary). Conversely, every nonplanar graph contains either $K3,3$ or the complete graph $K3,3$ as a minor; this is Wagner's theorem.
 * Every complete bipartite graph. $Kp, p$ is a Moore graph and a $K3,3$-cage.
 * The complete bipartite graphs $K4,4$ and $K5,5$ have the maximum possible number of edges among all triangle-free graphs with the same number of vertices; this is Mantel's theorem. Mantel's result was generalized to $i$-partite graphs and graphs that avoid larger cliques as subgraphs in Turán's theorem, and these two complete bipartite graphs are examples of Turán graphs, the extremal graphs for this more general problem.
 * The complete bipartite graph $2{4}p$ has a vertex covering number of $2p$ and an edge covering number of $p2$
 * The complete bipartite graph $Ki,i$ has a maximum independent set of size $K3,3$
 * The adjacency matrix of a complete bipartite graph $K3,2$ has eigenvalues $K3,3$, $K5$ and 0; with multiplicity 1, 1 and $Kn,n$ respectively.
 * The Laplacian matrix of a complete bipartite graph $(n,4)$ has eigenvalues $Kn,n$, $k$, $n$, and 0; with multiplicity 1, $Kn,n+1$, $Km,n$ and 1 respectively.
 * A complete bipartite graph $min{m, n}$ has $max{m, n}.$ spanning trees.
 * A complete bipartite graph $Km,n$ has a maximum matching of size $max{m, n}.$
 * A complete bipartite graph $Km,n$ has a proper $m$-edge-coloring corresponding to a Latin square.
 * Every complete bipartite graph is a modular graph: every triple of vertices has a median that belongs to shortest paths between each pair of vertices.

title: Complete bipartite graph