text:
Talk:Singing school

Authors get acquainted
Hi, I'm the original author of this page. I'm the son of a singing school teacher in the Church of Christ tradition.

This page probably reflects more about the religious tradition of singing schools than the Sacred Harp tradition. If there is more to be noted due to Sacred Harp, I'd love to have it added.

Jdavidb 15:56, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Hi, David. I'm glad to see you start this page. I have from "family tradition" been involved in seven-shape and Sacred Harp singings since childhood, though in adulthood I've gravitated almost solely to Sacred Harp. But most of my singing school experience was in seven-shape gospel music as a young person in east Texas. Where did your father teach?

Thanks for joining in! I'm glad to have someone who knows more about Sacred Harp who can provide input, as well. I've rarely met anyone who had good knowledge about both traditions.

My father taught in schools descended from the Texas Normal Singing school at Sabinal, Texas, including Texas Normal itself. His two main works were a school he himself established further north in Texas and the Southeastern Singing School in Alabama, founded by a student from Sabinal. History of Texas Normal Singing school is here. Jdavidb 16:17, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the link. We probably should put in a link to it under "singing schools" in the article. Did you ever hear of Robert S. Arnold? I think he was a member of the Christian church (though I'm not sure). I know he wasn't a cappella only. Anyway, he taught a number of singing schools in my area when I was a small boy. - Rlvaughn 04:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Culturally rather than religiously"?

 * I would like to recommend that this sentence be modified in some way: "While Sacred Harp usually involves music with a religious theme, most participants relate to the singing culturally rather than religiously." While this is not necessarily inaccurate, it does tend to minimize the religious significance of Sacred Harp to a large number of its participants. The co-mingling of "cultural" and "religious" is so great among "traditional" singers that its hard to separate them. A great number of the newcomers to Sacred Harp are drawn in by its musical significance to them, though they may also share the religious significance and grow to become a part of the culture of Sacred Harp. Just wanted to post these thoughts and get your interaction.

Thanks for mentioning this; I didn't completely understand. Please feel free to modify the article accordingly. Jdavidb 16:17, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm also going to try and find some external links to singing schools. I think this would be appropriate to the article. Perhaps you will know of some as well. Keep up the good work. - Rlvaughn 21:55, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

List of singing school teachers
In the middle of making some changes, I conceived of making a list of singing masters (singing school teachers). On reflection, that might not be such a good idea, and could easily get out of hand (become way too long). I'll not remove it for now, though; I'd like to get some input from others. - Rlvaughn 03:39, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * My immediate tendency was to add a bunch of names, so maybe you're right that it could get out of hand. Might still be a good idea, though.

 * One possibility might be, if it gets too long, to make a separate list of singing school teachers. There are lots of other lists on Wikipedia. I added that section on the spur of the moment, without a clear criteria. But I believe all on the list would fit this criteria - they dedicated much of their life to teaching singing schools, they wrote and compiled music/songs, they printed song books (and they are all deceased) - in other words, they were involved simultaneously at several levels.

 * I'm not quite sure what distinguishes a "singing master." My father is certainly an accomplished singing school teacher, but has never been referred to by that title.  A school I attended the last two years (propsed to my fiance there :) ) is reported as being run by "the son of a singing master."

 * The use of "singing master" is probably, for the most part, a term from the singing school movement of the past. I'm not really sure what it would take to constitute a "singing master". As I said, I came up with that section idea on the spur of the moment - "singing masters" just sounded a little more exclusive that "singing school teachers". Even I've done a little bit of singing school type work in churches.

 * I also immediately felt the desire to mention several of the remaining singing schools from the church of Christ I know, but resisted for fear that this, too, could get out of hand. I'll probably add them at some point, but for now I want to focus on adding content.  One thing I might add would be a description of a typical day at a singing school. Jdavidb 16:17, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm an information sort of person, so I don't think you can get "too much information". But, if a Wikipedia article gets too long, it gets hard for some people (browsers?) to edit, and needs to be broken out into smaller articles. I've only worked on one that got "too long" - the Anabaptist article.

 * The "typical day" idea is a good one, in my opinion. - Rlvaughn 04:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Culturally rather than religiously"? Part II
Hi Rlvaughn and Jdavidb--

While reading this article for the first time I noticed:

"While Sacred Harp usually involves music with a religious theme, most participants relate to the singing culturally rather than religiously."

and later noticed Rlvaughn's remark on this passage, and so I decided to go ahead and take it out. The sentence doesn't seem necessarily true to me. The principal books of the Sacred Harp (Cooper and Denson) most definitely "relate to the music" religiously, and some traditional singers (for example, as interviewed in Buell Cobb's book) make it clear that they participate in singings in a spirit of religious feeling. Regional and state singings, even outside the traditional Sacred Harp area, usually include a number of prayers.

I enjoyed the article and think it is a useful contribution. Cordially, Opus33 17:04, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Truett-McConnell College correction
Hello. My name's David and I'm a librarian at Truett-McConnell College (have been since mid-2004).

I just wanted to mention that I have corrected the spelling of the college's name (it was originally inputted as "Truett-McConnel Junior College") and dropped the "Junior" as it is now a four-year college (first four year degrees awarded in May 2005).YoungTrek 16:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

excellent article
Very good! I would love to see some elaboration of the historical issues surrounding "regular singing" versus the "usual way". In fact I would love to see an entire article on "the old way" of singing, if anyone feels up to it. Amity150 02:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Rewriting intro
I rewrote the intro. so that it would reflect the topics at hand, that is:

 * what is a singing school?
 * who runs them?
 * singing schools often involve shape notes
 * singing schools usually don't offer academic credit

I hope this makes it read a bit more smoothly. I tried not to change any content, though. Opus33 (talk) 01:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

List of singing masters
What exactly is the significance of this list? The term is not explained in the article, and the list only hangs by a thread of 'somebody who sings'. Could somebody who knows about the topic please help to develop it? -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 06:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm puzzled by this comment--the term "singing master" is explained in the article. And the list is not of "somebody who sings", it is of people who teach or taught other people to sing in a singing school.  Could you perhaps read over the article again and then return to this page with your recommendations?  Opus33 (talk) 15:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Clarification, please
I have enjoyed participating in a couple of conventions, as well as various ones of the regular singings held around Los Angeles, though not recently, as my schedule got too crowded. I do hope to be able to return some day, though. I made several minor edits, just for clarity & grammaticality. [hmmm... is there actually such a word?] But there are two places in the Curriculum section where I'm not sure I understand what's being said, so I don't want to change them & risk making them wrong.

"The emphasis is on teaching newcomers and advanced musicians the note system and traditions of Sacred Harp." It seems to me that if a person wants or needs to be taught the note systems & Sacred Harp traditions, then they could be classified as a newcomer, whether they have other musical training or not, right? If so, then we could just delete "and advanced musicians." Then we might add something like "... teaching newcomers, with or without other musical training, the note system..." Would that work?

"Pitch pipes are sometimes used in individual classes for brief practice." I don't understand - used by Primitive Baptists instead of pitching by ear? Used by Southern Gospel schools instead of a piano? "in individual classes" - in some classes, but not others? As opposed to being used in the whole school? "for brief practice" - but they wouldn't be used for a longer practice? For a practice, but not in some other setting?

Thanks for a great article. I learned a lot by reading it. Mpwrmnt (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

And here's another question: This sentence "Camp Fasola, which was founded in 2003, is an attempt by Sacred Harp enthusiasts to establish a permanent annual singing school." seems to imply that they have not yet been successful in their endeavor, but it seems to me that since it has been held annually every year for 15 years, they HAVE succeeded. If you agree, perhaps we could change it to read, "Camp Fasola, which was founded in 2003, is an annual singing school established by Sacred Harp enthusiasts." What do you think? Mpwrmnt (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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What/where is Port Elizabeth?
The page has a list of singing schools in Port Elizabeth, but there's no explanation as to what Port Elizabeth is. An online search tells me it's a city in South Africa, but that's clearly wrong since all the places on the list are in the United States. Could someone please add some context explaining this bit? Thank you! Clarissa Peterson (talk) 23:44, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Singing school


text:
FBR

FBR may refer to:

Science, medicine, and technology

 * Fast breeder reactor
 * Fluidized bed reactor
 * Foreign body response
 * Full Bridge Rectifier

Other uses

 * Beveren railway station's station code
 * FBR Capital Markets, an American investment banking firm
 * Federal Board of Revenue, central revenue collection agency of Pakistan
 * Fortnite Battle Royale, a video game
 * Foundation for Biomedical Research, an American animal welfare organization
 * Free Burma Rangers, a Burmese humanitarian organization
 * Friedman Billings Ramsey, an American real estate investment trust
 * Fueled by Ramen, an American record label
 * FBR Ltd, formerly Fastbrick Robotics, an Australian construction robot development company

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: FBR


text:
Talk:Lens (disambiguation)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

don't move. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 10:19, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Lens → Lens (disambiguation) and Lens (optics) → Lens: I realize that there are many major entries on Lens. But most of them relate to or derive from the optical meaning, and the optics use is still the primary use. Aside from the three places and the person, Laser Engineered Net Shaping and Lens (genus) are the only ones not falling under Lens (optics). I think it makes more sense to have the optical sense at Lens.

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~

 * Support. Commonest usage by far, below are the approximate current link counts to each page. Ewlyahoocom 06:29, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Oppose. Your link counts are not correct, there are more than a hundred links to RC Lens, where Racing Club de Lens redirects to, and that is the main meaning pf Lens in the context of sports. Kusma (討論) 19:49, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I get 195 links to RC Lens, including the 10 to Racing Club de Lens, which puts RC Lens above Photographic lens on the list. This fits my experience when I disambiguated the links to here weeks ago: there were more links that needed to go to Lens (optics) than anywhere else, but there were a lot of links that should have gone to Photographic lens, RC Lens and Lens, Pas-de-Calais (mostly references to football games played in the stadium there, against RC Lens.)--Srleffler 23:44, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry about that -- my little homebrew tool doesn't handle redirects. (I'll also update the entry on the disambiguation page.) Ewlyahoocom 05:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There are too many other meanings for lens (optics) to take the main name. Fresheneesz 22:09, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Too many meanings to guess which one is most common.  The most common use may be for camera lens.  Using the data below, this change would redirect to the wrong article most of the time.  Vegaswikian 23:42, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

Current link counts to each page (unadjusted for "piped" links so e.g. every link to "point of view" is counted not just those that display the text "lens"). 297 Lens (optics) 195 RC Lens (redirect from Racing Club de Lens) 182 Photographic lens 131 Sunglasses 113 point of view 109 Lens (anatomy) 103 Gravitational lens 82 Lens, Pas-de-Calais 58 Lensman 16 Lens (geometry) -- Racing Club de Lens [See RC Lens, above.] 6  Lens, Belgium 4  Lens (genus) 4  Laser Engineered Net Shaping 4  Electrostatic lens 3  Lens, Valais 1  Louis Lens —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ewlyahoocom. RC Lens adjusted by Srleffler 23:44, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, lens (genus) is related too: lens (optics) and lens (geometry) both get their name from the similarity of their shape to that of a lentil, a seed of a plant of genus lens. I don't have a problem with the renaming, though, as long as it's done right. I disambiguated most of the links to Lens weeks ago, but there will probably be new ones. Someone needs to go through those carefully and change each to the appropriate page, being careful to distinguish particularly between lens (optics) and photographic lens. --Srleffler 12:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sort order
"Kamera lens (biology)" was moved down under "Lens (hydrology)", but why is it supposed to be in that order; don't we start by comparing the first letters (K and L)? —Kri (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

 * See Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). Disambiguation pages should generally not be in alphabetical order. The general goal is to make the most likely intended meanings the easiest to find. --Srleffler (talk) 04:47, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Okay, thank you. —Kri (talk) 14:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lens (optics) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:59, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lens (disambiguation)


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St Mary's Church, Putney

St. Mary's Church (in full, the Church of St. Mary the Virgin), Putney, is an Anglican church in Putney, London, sited next to the River Thames, beside the southern approach to Putney Bridge. There has been a centre of Christian worship on this site from at least the 13th century, and the church is still very active today. It is also noteworthy because in 1647, during the English Civil War, the church was the site of the Putney Debates on the English constitution. It has been Grade II* listed since 1955.

The building itself has seen many changes; parts of the existing church have survived from medieval times, such as the 15th-century tower and some of the nave arcading, and the early 16th-century Bishop West Chapel, built by Bishop Nicholas West. Most of the building, however, dates from the substantial reconstruction of 1836 to the designs of Edward Lapidge. He largely rebuilt the body of the church in yellow brick with stone dressings and perpendicular windows. Some of the medieval pillars and arches in the nave were retained, but both the north and the south arcades were widened.

In 1973 an arson attack resulted in the gutting of much of the church. Rebuilding was not completed until nearly ten years later, when the church was rehallowed by Rt. Revd. Michael Marshall the Bishop of Woolwich, on 6 February 1982. Since the restoration, the altar has not been positioned, as is usual, in the chancel or even at the eastern end of the nave, but instead halfway down the northern side of the nave, with the seating arranged to reflect this. The architect of the restoration was Ronald Sims. The pipe organ is by the Danish firm of Marcussen & Søn.

Inscribed on a wall of the church is a quote from the Putney debates (1647) by Colonel Thomas Rainsborough: "For really I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest he."

In 2005 a new extension to the church, the "Brewer Building", built at a cost of £1.7m was opened by the Bishop of Southwark.

St. Mary's is one of the two churches in the Parish of Putney, the other being All Saints' Church, Putney Common. The parish is within the Wandsworth Deanery, the Kingston Episcopal Area and the Diocese of Southwark. From 2000 to 2009, the Rev. Giles Fraser was the Team Rector of St. Mary's, where he campaigned to raise the profile of the Putney Debates (1647).

Notable people associated with St Mary's

 * Samuel Pepys mentions St. Mary's in his diary for 1667. He attended a service where he heard 'a good sermon'.  He saw the girls of the school, 'few of which were pretty'.
 * Nicholas West (1461 – 28 April 1533), bishop and diplomat, was born at Putney, and educated at Eton and at King's College, Cambridge, of which he became a fellow in 1486. He built two beautiful chapels, one in St. Mary's and the other in Ely Cathedral, where he is buried.
 * Thomas Cromwell, born in Putney, was Chancellor of the Exchequer between 1533 and 1540.
 * Charles Dickens made St. Mary's the setting for David Copperfield's marriage to Dora Spenlow.

title: St Mary's Church, Putney


text:
Talk:Gwangju–Daegu Expressway

Can this twisty two-lane highway really be considered an expressway? -- Visviva 09:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gwangju–Daegu Expressway


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Talk:Administrative divisions of Korea

Could possibly be expanded into its own article
As title. Could discuss the history of Korea's administrative divisions. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 01:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Administrative divisions of Korea


text:
User talk:Palapala/Wikipedia:Pictures from SIDI-Sportmanagement

Images provided by SIDI-Sportmanagement, Frankfurt am Main, Germany. They were handed over to user:palapala in electronic form and released to the public domain. To some of the pictures, special rules (like NO cropping) apply... (see picture description for details).

Nia Künzer, soccer player: Birgit Prinz, soccer player:
 * image:airkz 20040301_nia_kuenzer.jpg
 * image:airkz 20040301_nia_kuenzer_forward.jpg
 * image:airkz 20040429_nia_kuenzer_action.jpg
 * image:airkz_20040526_birgit_prinz_duel.jpg

Below you'll find the EMail correspondence regarding those pictures (some of the details were further clarified on the phone):

Return-Path:  Received: from ianus.dynadept.de ([80.239.159.12]) by mailin06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 1AxouC-17DeIS0; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:00:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 45949 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 14:58:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sidineu) (80.128.243.204) by ianus.dynadept.de with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 14:58:13 -0000 From: "SIDI Sportmanagement"  To: "'Martin Ph. Kreuzer'"  Subject: Bitte um Info-Material (Fotos) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:58:12 +0100 Message-ID: <017401c3ff9d$9e9ea010$410aa8c0@sidineu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;	boundary="---=_NextPart_000_0175_01C3FFA6.00630810" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Seen: true X-TOI-SPAM: n;0;2004-03-01T15:00:55Z

Hallo Herr Kreuzer,

anbei erhalten Sie wie gewünscht einige Informationen über Nia Künzer in Form einer Kurzpräsentation und zwei Fotos. Bei Verwendung des Porträtfotos ist darauf zu achten, dass der von Ihnen gewählte Bildausschnitt bis zur Hüfte geht! [Make sure when using the portrait, any cropping should show the hip]

Für Rückfragen stehen wir Ihnen unter 0 69 / 58 53 53 gerne zur Verfügung.

Viele Grüße

Stefanie Stavrakidis SIDI-SPORTMANAGEMENT Siegfried Dietrich Kastellstraße 32 60439 Frankfurt am Main Telefon 0 69 / 58 53 53 Mobile 01 72 / 6 98 80 95 Fax 0 69 / 58 77 68

Mail@SIDI-SPORTMANAGEMENT.de

---Ursprüngliche Nachricht---

Von: Martin Ph. Kreuzer [mailto:airkreuzer.com@t-online.de] Gesendet: Montag, 1. März 2004 11:57 An: mail@SIDI-sportmanagement.de Betreff: Bitte um Info-Material (Fotos)

Guten Tag,

Habe heute Vormittag mit einem Artikel über Nia Künzer im englischen Teil der Online-Enzyklopädie "Wikipedia" begonnen, Link: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nia_Kuenzer".

Bitte um Informations-Material, das ich in diesem Zusammenhang verwenden könnte, zum Beispiel ein Foto (in der Art eines Paß- oder Bewerbungsfotos) und, wenn möglich, vielleicht ein Bild, das sie "in Aktion" zeigt... (evtl elektronische Vorlage?).

Habe gesehen, daß die persönliche Internetseite sich noch im Aufbau befindet. Gibt es evtl noch ein paar Hinweise zu ihrem Lebenslauf? Was ich bisher im Internet gefunden habe, ist ziemlich mager :)

Vielen Dank in Voraus.

Martin Kreuzer info@airkreuzer.com


text:
Talk:Veritable Records of the Joseon Dynasty

Copy destroyed by Kanto earthquake
Now we have: "In Japanese Colonial Period, the Japanese moved the Odae-san copy to Tokyo University, but the copy was soon lost in the Great Kantō earthquake of 1923." But this (Asahi.com) news story says: "many volumes in the annals were destroyed by fire during the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923. Only 74 volumes that had been taken out of the library survived. Of that number, 27 volumes were moved to Keijo Imperial University, in what is now Seoul, in 1932 when it was still under Japanese control." Also, a KBS story says: "The University of Tokyo says the return of Joseon Dynasty royal records to South Korea will take a long time. In a meeting with visiting members of a South Korean committee for the annals' return, the university's library said Monday that considerable time is needed for a decision on the return of 47 volumes of the annals." Whogue 00:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Annals of joseon dynasty listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Annals of joseon dynasty. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Rodney Baggins (talk) 14:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Revision
Gave most of the article a revision, with particular focus on proper sourcing. It's still missing tons of information; please feel free to add (just with reliable sourcing please; don't need a repeat of the previous situation). 104.232.119.107 (talk) 06:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Non sequitur? Delete?
There are sentences of questionable credibility under Section Compilation process: "Only the historians were allowed to read the sacho; if any historian disclosed or altered its contents, they were subject to severe punishment." If only the historians were allowed to read the sacho and they were guaranteed editorial independence, who was capable of discovering alterations and why were the historians punished for exercising editorial freedom? The sentence after the semicolon does not logically follow from the one before, and the sources don't make such a claim.

Moreover, it logically doesn't make sense for there to have been punishment for disclosing the sacho, because the lives of the historians themselves would have been at risk if the king had found out about their commentary that often contained negative evaluations of the deceased king. Those skeptical are encouraged to search "사신은 논한다" on the Veritable Records website and see how much of the commentary would have constituted lèse-majesté and resulted in execution if the records had been disclosed. There was one king (italicized because his kingship was revoked posthumously), Yeonsangun, who got ahold of the sacho. Surely, there was no need for additional punishment. Motjustescribe (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Sillok: proper noun or common noun?
We should reach agreement on how to treat the word "sillok." It really depends on the style guide, but the common noun used alone as a substitute for the name of a place or thing is typically not capitalized (Exhibit A under Section Common nouns and adjectives in proper names). The word sillok itself is not a proper noun, as it is used for various veritable records, like the Ming Veritable Records, Qing Veritable Records, or Nihon Sandai Jitsuroku. Of course, they're pronounced differently in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese, but even if we acknowledge the different pronunciations, the word sillok in Korean may mean different veritable records depending on the context—it doesn't always mean Joseon's sillok. It just so happens to be that it most commonly refers to the Joseon Veritable Records in Korean because it is part of Korean history.

The aforementioned rule is often overridden for organized bodies (e.g., the Department, the Administration, the Agency, et cetera). The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage still does not capitalize common-noun substitutes for organized bodies (e.g., the department, the administration, the agency, et cetera). I rest my case. Motjustescribe (talk) 15:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


text: Talk:Ara Gaya

title: Talk:Ara Gaya


text:
Professional diving

Professional diving is underwater diving where the divers are paid for their work. Occupational diving has a similar meaning and applications. The procedures are often regulated by legislation and codes of practice as it is an inherently hazardous occupation and the diver works as a member of a team. Due to the dangerous nature of some professional diving operations, specialized equipment such as an on-site hyperbaric chamber and diver-to-surface communication system is often required by law, and the mode of diving for some applications may be regulated.

There are several branches of professional diving, the best known of which is probably commercial diving and its specialised applications, offshore diving, inshore civil engineering diving, marine salvage diving, hazmat diving, and ships husbandry diving. There are also applications in scientific research, marine archaeology, fishing and aquaculture, public service, law enforcement, military service, media work and diver training.

Any person wishing to become a professional diver normally requires specific training that satisfies any regulatory agencies which have regional or national authority, such as US Occupational Safety and Health Administration, United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive or South African Department of Employment and Labour. International recognition of professional diver qualifications and registration exists between some countries.

Procedural aspects
The primary procedural distinction between professional and recreational diving is that the recreational diver is responsible primarily for their own actions and safety but may voluntarily accept limited responsibility for dive buddies, whereas the professional diver is part of a team of people with extensive responsibilities and obligations to each other and usually to an employer or client, and these responsibilities and obligations are formally defined in contracts, legislation, regulations, operations manuals, standing orders and compulsory or voluntary codes of practice. In many cases a statutory national occupational health and safety legislation constrains their activities. The purpose of recreational diving is basically for personal entertainment, while the professional diver has a job to do, and diving is necessary to get that job done. Recreational diving instruction and dive leadership are legally considered professional diving in some jurisdictions, particularly when the diver is employed for that purpose.

Diving operations
<-- target for redirect Diving operation --> A diving operation is a professional dive and the activity in preparation for, and in support of, the specific dive. The diving operation is controlled by the diving supervisor, is expected to follow the dive plan, is conducted by the diving team, and is recorded in the diving operations record (though the terms may have regional variations). A diving operation is over when the last diver has completed decompression and is out of the water.

Diving projects
A diving project is a coordinated set of diving operations for a particular purpose, often the responsibility of a diving contractor. This would include mobilisation and setup of the diving spread at the start, and demobilisation at the end of the project. Depending on the size of the project, the project manager may be the senior supervisor, or the diving superintendent.

Diving contractor
A diving contractor is the legal entity responsible for the execution of diving operations for a client. The diving contractor is responsible for ensuring that the diving operations are safe, that a competent diving team is appointed, and the contracted work is done to specifications.

Diving team
A diving team is a group of people who conduct a diving operation. A characteristic of professional diving is the specification for minimum personnel for the diving support team. This typically specifies the minimum number of team members and their appointed responsibilities in the team based on the circumstances and mode of diving, and the minimum qualifications for specified members of the diving team. The minimum team requirements may be specified by regulation or code of practice. Specific appointments within a dive team for which competences are specified and registration may be required are listed below.

Core diving team: Additional member for surface-supplied air diving using a low pressure compressor: Additional member for bell diving: Additional member for dives with a chamber on site: Additional member for surface-supplied mixed gas diving: Additional members for offshore diving: Additional personnel for saturation diving: Additional members for remotely operated underwater vehicle support:
 * – On telephonic standby.
 * – On telephonic standby.
 * – On telephonic standby.
 * – On telephonic standby.
 * – On telephonic standby.
 * Launch and recovery system winch operator
 * Launch and recovery system winch operator
 * - One per shift.

Regulation of activities
Professional diving activities are generally regulated by health and safety legislation, but in some cases may be exempted from the national or state diving regulations for specific diving applications, such as scientific diving or public safety diving, when they operate under a recognised code of practice for that application.

Codes of practice
A code of practice for professional diving is a document that complements occupational health and safety laws and regulations to provide detailed practical guidance on how to comply with legal obligations, and should be followed unless another solution with the same or better health and safety standard is in place, or may be a document for the same purpose published by a self-regulating body to be followed by member organisations.

Codes of practice published by governments do not replace the occupational health and safety laws and regulations, and are generally issued in terms of those laws and regulations. They are intended to help understand how to comply with the requirements of regulations. A workplace inspector can refer to a code of practice when issuing an improvement or prohibition notice, and they may be admissible in court proceedings. A court may use a code of practice to establish what is reasonably practicable action to manage a specific risk. Equivalent or better ways of achieving the required work health and safety may be possible, so compliance with codes of practice is not usually mandatory, providing that any alternative systems used provide a standard of health and safety equal to or better than those recommended by the code of practice.

Operations manual
The operations manual is the diving contractor's in-house documentation specifying the procedures authorised for diving operations conducted by the company. It will refer to relevant legislation and codes of practice and will specify the organisation of the company and the chain of responsibility. Standard operating procedures for the activities normally conducted by the company may be described in sufficient detail that all affected parties can understand how the organisation operates, or may refer to other documents such as the manufacturer's maintenance instructions for details.

Records
Professional diving operations are generally required to be documented for legal reasons related to contractual obligations and health and safety. Divers are required to keep their personal diving logbooks up to date, supervisors are required to record the specifics of a diving operation on the diving operations record. The dive plan is generally documented, and includes a description of the planned work, specification of the equipment to be used, the expected dive profile, and the outcome of the relevant risk assessment.

Commercial diving
Commercial diving may be considered an application of professional diving where the diver engages in underwater work for industrial, construction, engineering, maintenance or other commercial purposes which are similar to work done out of the water, and where the diving is usually secondary to the work.

In some legislation, commercial diving is defined as any diving done by an employee as part of their job, and for legal purposes this may include scientific, public safety, media, and military diving. That is similar to the definition for professional diving, but in those cases the difference is in the status of the diver within the organisation of the diving contractor. This distinction may not exist in other jurisdictions. In South Africa, any person who dives under the control and instructions of another person within the scope of the Occupational Health and Safety Act, 1993, is within the scope of the Diving Regulations, 2009. In the UK, the Diving at Work Regulations, 1997, apply.

Major applications of commercial diving include:
 * – Diving in support of civil engineering projects.
 * Inspection, nondestructive testing, and repair
 * Inspection, nondestructive testing, and repair
 * Inspection, nondestructive testing, and repair

Scientific diving

Scientific diving is the use of diving techniques by scientists to study underwater what would normally be studied by scientists. Scientific divers are normally qualified scientists first and divers second, who use diving equipment and techniques as their way to get to the location of their fieldwork. The direct observation and manipulation of marine habitats afforded to scuba-equipped scientists have transformed the marine sciences generally, and marine biology and marine chemistry in particular. Underwater archeology and geology are other examples of sciences pursued underwater. Some scientific diving is carried out by universities in support of undergraduate or postgraduate research programs.

Government bodies such as the United States Environmental Protection Agency and the UK Environment Agency carry out scientific diving to recover samples of water, marine organisms and sea, lake or riverbed material to examine for signs of pollution.

Equipment used varies widely in this field, but surface supplied equipment though quite uncommon in the UK is growing in popularity in the U.S. Most scientific dives are relatively short duration and shallow, and surface supplied equipment is cumbersome and relatively expensive. The safety record of scuba for scientific diving has been good, and it is considered acceptable for most scientific diving by several national and international codes of practice.

Not all scientific divers are professionals; some are amateurs who assist with research or contribute observations on citizen science projects out of personal interest.

Scientific diving organizations include:
 * The American Academy of Underwater Sciences
 * The European Scientific Diving Panel.
 * The German Academy of Underwater Sciences.

Standard references for scientific diving operations include:
 * Code of Practice for Scientific Diving: Principles for the Safe Practice of Scientific Diving in Different Environments.
 * Joiner James T. (ed), NOAA Diving Manual: Diving for Science and Technology, Fourth Edition, 2001, U.S.Department of Commerce, National Technical Information Service, (ISBN 0941332705)
 * Haddock, Steven H. D. & John N. Heine, 2005. Scientific Blue-water Diving California Sea Grant College Program

Media diving
Media diving is the practice of underwater photography and underwater cinematography outside of normal recreational interests. Media diving is often carried out in support of television documentaries, such as the BBC series Planet Earth or movies, with feature films such as Titanic and The Perfect Storm featuring underwater photography or footage. Media divers are normally highly skilled camera operators who use diving as a method to reach their workplace, although some underwater photographers start as recreational divers and move on to make a living from their hobby.

Equipment in this field is varied with scuba and surface supplied equipment used, depending on requirements, but rebreathers are often used for wildlife related work as they are normally quiet, release few or no bubbles and allow the diver a lengthy bottom time with a reduced risk of frightening off the subject.

Military and naval diving

Military diving is diving carried out by military personnel in the course of their duties. There are a number of different specialisations in military diving; some depend on the branch of the military. Offensive activities include underwater demolition, infiltration and sabotage, this being the type of work done by units such as the UK Special Boat Service or the United States Navy SEALs. Defensive activities are centered around countering the threat of enemy special forces and enemy anti-shipping measures, and typically involve defusing mines, searching for explosive devices attached to the hulls of ships, and locating enemy frogmen in the water.

Military divers may need equipment which does not reveal their position and avoids setting off explosives, and to this end, they may use rebreathers which produce less noise due to bubbles emitted from the equipment, and few or no bubbles on the surface, and which contain no magnetic components, and the face-mask may be fitted with anti-reflective glass.

Naval diving is the military term for what civilians would call commercial diving. Naval divers work to support maintenance and repair operations on ships and military installations. Their equipment is derived from commercially available equipment, with the US Navy using versions of the Kirby Morgan helmets and full-face masks amongst other equipment. Typical tasks include:
 * inspection, cleaning and maintenance of boats, ships, and underwater structures
 * demolition of shipwrecks, obstructing navigation and unexploded ordnance
 * ship, submarine, downed aircraft, and other military hardware salvage or recovery
 * underwater mine clearance
 * investigating unidentified submerged divers

Some armies have their own diving personnel for inland water operations.

Experimental diving may be conducted by special units like the US Navy's Experimental Diving Unit (NEDU) which involves meeting military needs through the research and development of diving practices and diving equipment, testing new types of equipment and finding more effective and safer ways to perform dives and related activities. The US NEDU was responsible for much of the experimental diving work to calculate and validate decompression tables and algorithms, and has since worked on such developments as heated diving suits powered by radioactive isotopes and mixed gas diving equipment, while the British equivalent (The Admiralty Experimental Diving Unit) developed the Mark 10 submarine escape suits used by both the Royal Navy and the US Navy.

Police diving
Police divers are normally police officers who have been trained in the use of diving techniques to recover evidence and occasionally bodies from underwater. They may also be employed in searching shipping for contraband attached to the outside of hulls to avoid detection by internal searches. The equipment they use depends on operational requirements, but a requirement for communications with the surface team would necessitate the use of full-face masks with voice communication equipment, either with scuba or surface-supplied equipment.

Public safety diving

Public safety diving is the underwater work conducted by law enforcement, fire rescue, and search & rescue/recovery dive teams. Public safety divers differ from recreational, scientific and commercial divers who can generally plan the date, time, and location of a dive, and dive only if the conditions are conducive to the task. Public safety divers respond to emergencies at whatever time and place they occur, and may be required to dive at times and in circumstances where conditions and regulations may exempt them from some of the health and safety requirements of other professional divers at times when it appears possible that a living person may be rescued. In the US, many public safety divers are volunteers, but career law enforcement or fire rescue personnel also often take on these additional responsibilities as part of their occupation.

Aquarium diving
Aquarium divers normally hold some form of professional qualification, either as a commercial diver or a recognised recreational certification indicating sufficient competence. The work is varied but is centred around the maintenance of the tank, livestock and public entertainment. This includes:
 * Feeding the animals
 * Tank cleaning and maintenance
 * Shows
 * Taking members of the public into the tank

Diving instructors
Instructors for the professional classes of diving are generally qualified and experienced as divers, diving supervisors, and adult educators operating under the auspices of a governmental agency. Standards for instruction are authorized by those agencies to ensure safety during training and competence in the workplace. Commercial diving instructors are normally required to have commercial diving qualifications. They typically teach trainee commercial divers how to operate the types of diving equipment and typical underwater tools they will use in the course of their work as well as the skills required for diving safely with the relevant equipment.

Recreational diving instructors differ from other types of professional divers as they normally don't require registration as commercial divers, but a relevant recreational qualification from a recognised certification agency and in-date membership or registration with that agency which permits them to teach and assess the competence of recreational divers to agency standards. Recreational dive instructors teach a wide variety of skills from entry-level diver training for beginners, to diver rescue for intermediate level divers and technical diving for divers who wish to dive in higher risk environments. They may operate from dedicated dive centres at coastal sites, or through hotels in popular holiday resorts or simply from local swimming pools. Initial training is carried out mainly on conventional open circuit scuba equipment  but with the increasing availability of recreational rebreathers, their use is also taught. Not all recreational diving instructors are professionals; many are amateurs with careers outside the diving industry, but they work to the same training standards as the professionals, and will have the same duty of care for their trainees.

Recreational dive leaders
Professional underwater dive leaders (also referred to as divemasters) are quite commonly employed by dive centres, live-aboard dive boats and day charter boats to lead certified recreational divers and groups of divers on underwater excursions. These divemasters are generally expected to ensure that the customers are briefed on the conditions to be expected, the known hazards other than those inherent in the activity, and what the customer can reasonably expect to see during a dive. They are underwater tour guides, and as such are expected to know the level of certification and fitness needed for the planned dive, but are not generally considered responsible for ensuring that the customers are competent to the level of certification they hold, or for the personal safety of the customers during the dive. If the dive leader allocates dive buddies, they may thereby make themselves legally responsible for ensuring that the buddy pairs they allocate are appropriate. Any instruction given by the dive leader may make them liable for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of carrying out that instruction, though the customer is usually obliged to sign a waiver exonerating the dive guide for ordinary negligence. Not all recreational dive leaders are professionals; many are amateurs with careers outside the diving industry, and lead groups of friends or club members without financial reward. The internationally recognised minimum standard for a person professionally leading a group of certified recreational divers is ISO 24801-3 and the equivalent European Standard EN 14153–3. Most recreational diver training agencies have a certification meeting these standards.

Equipment

Diving equipment is equipment used by underwater divers to make diving activities possible, easier, safer and/or more comfortable. This may be equipment primarily intended for this purpose, or equipment intended for other purposes which is found to be suitable for diving use.

Diving suit
Depending on the water temperature, depth and duration of the planned dive, the diver will either use a wetsuit, dry suit or hot water suit. A wetsuit provides thermal insulation by layers of foam neoprene but the diver gets wet. Hot water diving suits are similar to a wetsuit but are flooded with warm water from a surface water heater that is then pumped to the diver via an umbilical. A dry suit is another method of insulation, operating by keeping the diver dry under the suit, and relies on either the suit material, the gas trapped in thermal undergarments, or both, to insulate the diver, and also provides better isolation from environmental contamination. Certain applications require a specific type of dive suit; long dives into deep, cold water normally require a hot water suit or dry suit, whilst diving into potentially contaminated environments requires a dry suit, dry hood, and dry gloves at a minimum, usually wit a helmet sealed to the suit, or at least a positive pressure full-face mask, thereby keeping the diver completely isolated from the diving environment.

Breathing apparatus
A number of factors dictate the type of breathing apparatus used by the diver. Typical considerations include the length of the dive, water contamination, space constraints and vehicle access for support vehicles. Some disciplines will very rarely use surface supplied diving, such as scientific divers or military clearance divers, whilst commercial divers will rarely use scuba equipment.

Scuba diving
Scuba equipment is not commonly used in civilian commercial diving, but is often employed by scientific, media and military divers, sometimes as specialized equipment such as rebreathers, which are closed circuit scuba equipment that recycles exhaled breathing gas instead of releasing it into the water. The recycling of gas makes rebreathers advantageous for long duration dives, more efficient decompression is possible when the gas mix is adjustable, and observation of animals in the wild is facilitated due to the lack of noisy exhaust bubbles. These characteristics also make rebreathers ideal for military use, such as when military divers are engaged in covert action where bubbles would alert the opposition to their presence, or when performing mine clearance where bubble noise could potentially trigger an explosion.

Open circuit scuba equipment is occasionally used by commercial divers working on sites where surface supplied equipment is unsuitable, such as around raised structures like a water tower, or in remote locations where it is necessary to carry equipment to the dive site. Normally, for comfort and for practicality, a full face mask such as those manufactured by Kirby Morgan will be used to allow dive lights and video cameras to be mounted on the mask. The benefit of full-face masks is that they can normally also be used with surface supplied equipment, removing the need for the diver or the company to have two sets of expensive equipment.

Surface-supplied diving
This is, perhaps, the most common type of equipment used in professional diving, and the one most recognised by the public. Surface-supplied equipment can be used with full face masks or diving helmets. Helmets are normally fitted with diver to surface communication equipment, and often with light sources and video equipment. The decision between wearing a full-face mask or a full diving helmet comes down to job requirements and personal preference; however, the impact protection and warmth offered by a full diving helmet makes it popular for underwater construction sites and cold water work.

Breathing gas for the diver is piped down from the surface, through a long, flexible hose, bundled with other services and called an diver's umbilical. In addition to breathing gas, the umbilical will have additional hoses and cables for such things as communications equipment, a pneumofathometer for measuring depth, or hot water should the diver be using a hot water suit. The umbilical must be strong enough to support the diver's weight, with a significant safety margin, because it may be used by surface personnel to pull the diver out of the water. The diver's breathing gas is pumped down from either high pressure tanks or through a gas compressor.

Saturation diving
If the diver is to work at fairly constant depths for periods which would require long periods for decompression, the diver may live in a special underwater habitat or a pressurised surface habitat called a saturation system. This type of diving is known as saturation diving. The same technique for supplying breathing gas as regular surface supplied diving is used, with the diving bell receiving breathing gas and other essential services from a diving support vessel on the surface. If diving at extreme depths, helium-based breathing gas mixtures are used to prevent nitrogen narcosis and oxygen toxicity which would otherwise occur due to the high ambient pressure. The diver is decompressed only once, at the end of the job, which saves time and reduces risk of decompression injury.

Training and registration

Diver training is the set of processes through which a person learns the necessary and desirable skills to safely dive underwater within the scope of the diver training standard relevant to the specific training programme. Most diver training follows procedures and schedules laid down in the associated training standard, in a formal training programme, and includes relevant foundational knowledge of the underlying theory, including some basic physics, physiology and environmental information, practical skills training in the selection and safe use of the associated equipment in the specified underwater environment, and assessment of the required skills and knowledge deemed necessary by the certification agency to allow the newly certified diver to dive within the specified range of conditions at an acceptable level of risk. Recognition of prior learning is allowed in some training standards.

Professional diver certification is generally in terms of a diver training standard published by a national government organisation or department, or an international organisation of which such national bodies are members. Training standards specify the mode of diving, equipment and scope of operations for divers registered in terms of that standard. International recognition of professional diver certification may require registration through a national government agency or an agency appointed by a national government for this purpose.

Diver training is closely associated with diver certification or registration, the process of application for and issue of formal recognition of competence by a certification agency or registration authority.

Work skills specific to the underwater environment may be included in diver trailing programmes, but are also often provided independently, either as job training for a specific operation, or as generic training by specialists in the fields.

Australia
The Australian Diver Accreditation Scheme (ADAS) is an international commercial and occupational diver certification scheme administered on a cost-recovery basis by the ADAS Board under the direction of the Australian Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism. It has mutual recognition arrangements with other equivalent national schemes. The original Australian and New Zealand (NZ) national occupational diver certification scheme was developed by the Australian government as a not-for-profit accreditation and certification scheme. Training is provided by Accredited Training Establishments (ATEs) which are required to operate at the level of international best practice as defined by ADAS. The scheme provides certification of divers and accreditation of training establishments, develops training courses to meet industry needs, and promotes the mobility of ADAS licence holders around the world. Australian commercial divers are trained in accordance with Australian Standard AS 2815.

Canada
The Diver Certification Board of Canada certifies occupational divers, accredits schools which train occupational divers. The DCBC is a federally incorporated not-for-profit body which was originally set up to replace the offshore diver certification regime of the National Energy Board and the offshore petroleum boards. DCBC is the only national body which certifies offshore and inshore commercial divers in Canada.

The DCBC offers certification to commercial divers and supervisors who can demonstrate that they have sufficient training and experience to enable them to meet the competency requirements of the appropriate section of the Canadian Standards Association (CSA) Competency Standard for Diving Operations (CSA Standard Z275.4). Certificates issued by the DCBC are recognized by Australia (ADAS), France, Norway, South Africa (DoL), the United Kingdom (HSE) and the International Marine Contractors Association (IMCA). The Diver Certification Board of Canada accredits commercial diver training organizations which train to the competency levels described in CSA Standard Z275.4. Accredited commercial diver training organizations can also assess the competency of experienced commercial divers who were not trained at an accredited school, a form of recognition of prior learning.

Denmark
All professional diving activities carried out on Danish national territory (included its continental shelf and from Danish offshore vessels and platforms) must comply with the provisions of the Consolidated act on diving operations and diving equipment, etc. and Order no. 1395 on the safe performance of diving operations. Diving operations in Greenland are subject to different regulations.

The Danish Maritime Authority oversees all diving operations. In order to perform diving works professional must have completed and passed training programs in the approved diving schools. Training contents must comply with national and IDSA training standards.

Poland
In Poland "commercial diver" is a state-regulated profession and qualifications are awarded by the Maritime Office in Gdynia, according the Polish law of 17 October 2003.

There are four levels of diving qualifications for divers and supervisors. The diver's cards and logbooks are legally protected documents.

South Africa
In South Africa the Department of Employment and Labour regulates the activities of people who dive as part of their employment, except for those involved in diving connected to minerals and energy, who are nominally controlled by the Department of Minerals and Energy. Military diving is also officially within the jurisdiction of the Department of Employment and Labour, but provided the diving is conducted within the requirements of SA Naval Operations Publication 96 it is deemed to comply with the Diving Regulations of the Occupational Health and Safety Act 1993.

All commercial diver training is within the scope of the Diving Regulations, but recreational diver training and dive leading (divemasters) are specifically excluded from the regulations, though still subject to general provisions of the Occupational Health and Safety Act.

Commercial divers are registered with the Department of Employment and Labour after completing their training and assessment at registered commercial diving schools. The standard of training is officially specified in the Commercial Diver Training Standards for each class of diver, but the precise definitions for many of the specified items is unclear. However this is not unlike the standards for training in several other countries, as the SA standards are similar to the standards published by the International Diving Regulators and Certifiers Forum (IDRCF) of which the SA Department of Employment and Labour is a member.

United Kingdom
In the UK, any person diving at work is required to hold a relevant qualification approved by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). Diving schools in the UK work towards a standard HSE approved qualification, whilst divers who have trained in other countries may find their existing qualifications meet the HSE standards, if not, additional training may be required. HSE approved qualifications are well known around the world and several diving qualifications from around the world are aligned with HSE standards, allowing any diver certified to a standard recognised by the HSE to work in the UK, an important location due to the North Sea oil industry. HSE commercial diver qualifications are recognized by Australia (ADAS), Canada (DCBC), France, Norway, South Africa (DoEL) and in part by the International Marine Contractors Association (IMCA).

There are several HSE qualifications, each focusing on a different type of equipment or type of diving activity, for instance the HSE Scuba qualification only recognises the holder's competence to dive using scuba equipment. Training usually takes place at a residential school, with courses taking anything between 9 and 13 weeks although divers with existing qualifications, such as former military divers can take courses which build on their existing knowledge and experience. During training, divers will be taught how to use common types of diving equipment (nearly every school trains divers to use the Kirby Morgan equipment) and how to carry out underwater construction techniques such as welding and cutting.

In addition to practical skills training, there is classroom work, with divers learning subjects such as basic physics and physiology of diving and the use of decompression tables. First Aid courses are normally also a requirement for trainee divers, with the emphasis placed on dealing with decompression and other diving related injuries.

Others
Other countries known to have nationally regulated training and registration systems:
 * France
 * Norway

Engineer diver
A Master's degree titled Engineer Diver, for a professional who has the capacities, skills and knowledge needed to plan, manage and successfully execute an underwater operation concerning engineering practice, was proposed in 2007. The proposal does not appear to have been taken up. Examples of businesses that might benefit from the proposed qualification are civil infrastructures contractors (above and below water) where inspections, and maintenance projects are carried out periodically. That is the case of underwater inspections of ports, offshore platforms, vessels, bridges and dams.

Nuclear diving articles

 * "Swimming on the Hot Side", Popular Science, March 27, 2012

Scientific diving articles

 * Research and Discoveries: The Revolution of Science through Scuba, over 50 archived webcasts of symposium, 24–25 May 2010, Smithsonian Institution, National Research Council of the National Academies, National Science Foundation.

title: Professional diving


text:
Talk:Arirang

Hanja
What's the Hanja for Arirang? Kokiri 16:13, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Is that a trick question? There are no Hanja, since it's a native Korean word.  In fact, there are no Sino-Korean words in the refrain, and only 3 in the first verse: 십 (十), 리 (里), and 병 (病) --Sewing 20:48, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

hello — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:555F:F748:4850:4845:613A:C279 (talk) 03:33, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Pun
Arirang means : Ancient native korean word. 'Ari' means "beautiful" (example. 아리따운 native korean word means "beautiful", "lovely", "charming")

'Rang' means "dear" so, arirang means "beautiful dear" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.148.48.216 (talk) 01:19, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You state, both here and in the article itself, that arirang means "ancient native Korean word" and that it means "beautiful dear." Is it a pun? ➥the Epopt 15:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It's a Korean word that means beautiful dear. (Wikimachine 15:55, 2 September 2007 (UTC))

We've been studying Seopyeonje in our our New Korean Cinema class and my professor (native speaker) says the translation of "beautiful" on wikipedia is inaccurate. The film subtitles translated "arirang" as "my dear". --jess (talk) 04:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The introduction is a little contradictory. It says there is no direct modern meaning, and then next sentence, translates into pretty clear modern meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ariarirang (talk • contribs) 16:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the translation of the lyrics has many problems too. Going over the Arirang Pass is Nim (the lover), not I (the singer). Can someone add a more direct transliteration to that table? Something like:

Arirang, Arirang, Arariyo Going over Arirang Pass Dear (you), spurning me and going away Before going 10 ri, will get foot disease (or injury) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ariarirang (talk • contribs) 17:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The claim that there is no modern derivation seems accurate. Trying to contrive a an ad-hoc "translation" out of the modern meanings of the individual syllables 아리 and 랑 seems, well, contrived.

I'm not a native speaker, however. I'd be interested in hearing a native's perspective on this, but AFAIK the "beautiful dear" part should be removed. I'm just not bold enough to do it without confirmation first. :)

Also, although this is English Wikipedia, it would be nice to see the actual Hangul lyrics, possibly along with a direct transliteration as it can be assumed most users of English Wikipedia cannot read Hangul. -Stian (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

After finishing on the talk page, I decided to add a qualifier to the "beautiful dear" interpretation that it was unlikely to match the ancient meaning. I felt the clarification was needed, but I didn't want to outright delete the modern interpretation without consensus. -Stian (talk) 14:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Arirang is from an ancient myth. The inhabitants of a small village lives happily beside the Arirang Hill. If they climb the hill, and passes over, they can go no more than 4 kilometers before they grow "heart-sick" wanting to return immediately to their home. The classical Korean dance/ballet also depicts going over this hill as the pains experienced when separated from the woman you love and yearn to return to. (Mariner) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.89.23.102 (talk) 11:11, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

The article is not very readable. It would be nice to add a brief description in the beginning (a story, that this song is national song of Korea, etc). The article starts with variations of the song and other details, which can be confusing... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Optimus2005 (talk • contribs) 01:14, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

History According to Pete Seeger
The folk singer Pete Seeger claims on one of his albums that Arirang was supposedly composed by a condemned political prisoner in the 16th Century. According to this account, the man was hanged on a hill called Arirang, and sang this song, about the beauty of his native land, on the way to execution. After this, all condemned prisoners were allowed to sing the same song.

Is this an actual traditional legend about the creation of the song, or is a modern creation? Should it be mentioned on this page? Balladeer25 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Balladeer25 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

North or South
How does the song play out in North Korean and South Korean culture respectively. InTheRevolution2 (talk) 23:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe the giant show North Korea is famous far is called Arirang Ottawakismet (talk) 01:30, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Michigan State Police.gif which links to /wiki/AR-15
Dunno why it's there and I can't find it to edit it out. It would be nice if someone could. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.37.117 (talk) 20:33, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Original Korean lyrics and proposed usage as national anthem?
Since 2012, this article has had a template on it that said: "This article is missing information about original Korean lyrics and proposed usage as national anthem." I doubt it's possible to find the original lyrics, considering the song is likely 600 years old. I was also unable to find any sources saying that "Arirang" was once proposed as the national anthem (for Korea? South Korea? North Korea?). If anyone has more information about that, please add it to the article, but I felt like it was safe to remove the template. Lenoresm (talk) 20:25, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Founded the hanja of the song title and I will explain the meaning
The real hanja for Arirang is 我離娘(read 아리랑).
 * 1) 我 = I
 * 2) 離 = depart
 * 3) 娘 = lady

So if you see the lyrics it is about departing from your loved one, so the title simply means "I Had Departed From My Lady". --211.251.172.76 (talk) 03:00, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Source is Why? Everyday Life and Conventions

 * Hi, I've requested in the article that this source be verified. Please provide more information (such as a link to the source, its author, etc) so that others can verify this information. Lenoresm (talk) 16:25, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Other article inconsistent with this one?
In the Wikipedia article on the book for which external sources give the title "The Song of Arirang", Wikipedia has The Song of Ariran (book) instead, which I think is an error. I'm not knowledgeable enough to change it. though... AnonMoos (talk) 15:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Broken Unesco links: this might not be the only page concerned
Hi!

On this page, the two Unesco links were broken, so I fixed them:

http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/en/lists?RL=00914 -> https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/arirang-folk-song-in-the-democratic-people-s-republic-of-korea-00914

http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/en/lists?RL=00445 -> https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/arirang-lyrical-folk-song-in-the-republic-of-korea-00445

Alas, I could only fix it for this page. In order to do a more extensive fix for Unesco links, maybe this might require making a bot do it? I'm not sure if this is even allowed though, and in which cases.

In order to make an algorithm that replaces the links, you might want to notice that links of the form https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/00914 work as well, so you'd just need to replace links of the form http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/COUNTRY_CODE/lists?RL=XXXXX by links of the form https://ich.unesco.org/COUNTRY_CODE/RL/XXXXX.

Just dropping that out there ^^ Maxime182752 (talk) 15:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Arirang


text:
Talk:1997 Asian financial crisis

Indonesia
My Indonesian friend said that during the crisis, a lot of indonesian people further compounded the problem by selling out their own currency and buying foreign money (such as USD) and send it out of the country. Some people got rich at the expenses of the rest of the country.

Announcing Indonesia-related topics notice board
After some thought and consideration, I created an Indonesia-related topics notice board, along the same lines as other regional notice boards (such as those for Malaysia and Africa). This was established to coordinate efforts to improve Indonesia-related Wikipedia entries. If you've made contributions to Indonesia-related articles in the past, or would like to, please take some time to visit, introduce yourself, and sign the roster. --Daniel June 30, 2005 18:44 (UTC)

Comments from a Thai
Hi, I am a Thai here. I want to comment about this article. First of all, to the person who asked about this, IMF was very prominent to the local people at the time and "IMF Crisis" is not so inaccurate. What I really want to comment is, however, the fact that the crisis is also known as "Tom Yum Kung Disease". Tom Yum Kung is a very famous Thai food and SE Asia called the crisis Tom Yum Kung Disease since it started from Thailand.

Russian financial system
Russian financial system had also catch fire meanwhile (we know it as "an August"). So this should not be really called asian, it affected a lot of countries which had economic growth worldwide.

Yesterday (crisis lyrics)
Yesterday, all my Soros seemed so far away Now it look as though they're here to play Oh, I believe in yesterday

Suddenly, Baht's(or insert name of other currency) not half the worth it used to be There's a short sell hanging over it oh, yesterday came suddenly

Why funds had to go I don't know, they wouldn't say I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday

Yesterday, shares was such an easy game to play Now I need a place to hide away oh, I believe in yesterday

Why funds had to go I don't know, they wouldn't say I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday

Yesterday, shares was such an easy game to play Now I need a place to hide away oh, creditors, please go away Mm

East Asian Financial Crisis versus Asian Financial Crisis
Only 10 percent of the top 100 hits in Google's index are calling this the East Asian Financial Crisis rather than the Asian Financial Crisis. Shouldn't Wikipedia conform to general usage?

Malaysia and IMF
It seems to me that Malaysia and the IMF needs to be mentioned more. Since Malaysia AFAIK largely ignored the IMF's recommendations and offers it's from what I can gather an interesting case study often used to try and ascertain whether the IMF policies were really a bad idea or not. While as with most economic issues, there doesn't appear to be any real agreement, and comparing Malaysia and it's recovery with other countries like Indonesia, Thailand etc is difficult it seems to me that some mention needs to be made of the comparison between Malaysia and other countries which more followed the IMF more.

It seems to me that Malaysia and the IMF needs to be mentioned more. Since Malaysia AFAIK largely ignored the IMF's recommendations and offers it's from what I can gather an interesting case study often used to try and ascertain whether the IMF policies were really a bad idea or not. While as with most economic issues, there doesn't appear to be any real agreement, and comparing Malaysia and it's recovery with other countries like Indonesia, Thailand etc is difficult it seems to me that some mention needs to be made of the comparison between Malaysia and other countries which more followed the lead.

Updated Source for #49 Janet L. Yellen. Speech to the Asia Society of Southern California, Los Angeles, California, 6 February 2007 Jump up ^
The text still survives at the following URL

http://www.frbsf.org/our-district/press/presidents-speeches/yellen-speeches/2007/february/the-asian-financial-crisis-ten-years-later-assessing-the-past-and-looking-to-the-future/

I do not know how to update this source properly.

title: Talk:1997 Asian financial crisis


text:
Talk:Asiana Airlines

Untitled
So why did they stop flying to Canada? -- Visviva 08:28, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

As I remember Asiana has some half passenger half freight aircrafts. Any information? Baksando 12:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I have a request to add info on the Boeing 777-400 (747-400 COMBI) from http://us.flyasiana.com/Global/US/en/homepage?fid=ABOUT11400#fleet05. Could someone kindly do that for me thank you. 66.222.217.37 (talk) 03:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, there is no such aircraft type(777-400). Asiana operates one version of 747-400(PAX) and two versions of 747-400(COMBI). If you were looking at the 777s, Asiana operates three versions of 777-200ERs.Mrarchitectkim 04:32, 25 October 2009 (UT

Oh yes. I stand correted. I apologize. it was 747. Thank you 66.222.217.37 (talk) 22:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Names of Asiana town in other languages
Aside from English and Korean, here are names of "Asiana Town" in other languages:
 * Chinese: 韩亚城
 * Japanese: アシアナタウン
 * Russian: Asiana Таун

So the names can be added to the Commons descriptions once the image of Asiana Town arrives! WhisperToMe (talk) 17:35, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Korean page
On the Korean page, the table says completely different things in the fleet section. The Korean page also has the IFE, in-flight catering, and ground services. Should we add that to the English page? 161.130.178.177 (talk) 14:34, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Incidents and accidents
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/06/201161834356235211.html

S Korea troops fire at passenger plane Troops shoot at jet flying from China with 119 people on board after mistaking it for a N Korean aircraft. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.230.129.95 (talk) 08:38, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

 * What was the reasoning for this mention in the talk section as it doesn't appear to have any commonality to Asiana Airlines? Linkops85 (talk) 09:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

 * The aircraft shot at belonged to Asiana, but as they missed it by miles it is not really notable. MilborneOne (talk) 11:28, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Cargo flight Crash
Reteurs (by way of Sky News) are reporting that a cargo flight has gone down into the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Juju Island, South Korea. No online sources yet. Who.was.phone (talk) 22:49, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Crash confirmed - Two crew on board, both perished. --Who.was.phone (talk) 22:57, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The crash has its own article here Asiana Airlines Flight 991. --JetBlast (talk) 23:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Travel Class
This article is missing information about Asiana Airlines's travel classes. Information is available on the Asiana Airlines web page. --ABXInferno (talk) 04:07, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

SFO Crash
Wikipedia is not the news. Let's wait until we have reliable sources and not speculate about causes, damage etc. Harry the Dog WOOF  19:53, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Agree, also the detail should be in Asiana Airlines Flight 214, this should only be a summary so no need to add every bit fact as it appears. MilborneOne (talk) 20:11, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * To add onto User:Harry the Dirty Dog's comment, there is a Wikinews. Wikinews already has an article about this incident. Wikipedia is just an encyclopedia. NHRHS2010 the student pilot   ✈  20:16, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but as a reader, do you really have to have the "Disaster" title at the top of the page? It seems over dramatic given the reports that everyone is accounted for - and I can't imagine that it does much to help quell the fears of family members who may be searching the internet looking on any site available for information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.10.252 (talk • contribs)
 * Agree. Have changed it to "current event". Harry the Dog WOOF  20:43, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * We may need to get protection of the article against random facts and speculation. MilborneOne (talk) 16:10, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with MilborneOne since several anonymous IP edits that are not vandalism, can still be questionable as they would usually fail to cite sources and there would indeed be random facts and speculations. Several people who wish to contribute to Wikipedia would create an account. NHRHS2010 the student pilot   ✈  14:40, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Added tag
I added a tag that the article employs a non-neutral point of view and is written like an advertisement, particularly in the section regarding the in-flight services section, which is a mess. Rewriting would be very helpful. Thank you!  Go  Phightins  !  22:01, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

 * OK I have had a tidy up and removed the tags, it isnt that different now from other airline articles, if you have any issues please detail them here and we can go through them, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:08, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Looks a lot better; my only lingering complaint would be that it doesn't have many sources ... seems a tad OR-ish, but thanks for the rewrite!  Go  Phightins  !  00:49, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 July 2013
Repair "Marketing" Section. Vandalized by VirtualRash. Please revert edit.

71.123.176.109 (talk) 05:51, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done, thank you! VQuakr (talk) 06:08, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Crash picture in fleet section
There was a picture of the crashed Flight 214 in the 'fleet' section with a caption of (paraphrased) 'An Asiana B777 lands at SFO'. That looks like somone wanted to be naughty and imply that this was a normal landing. I moved the picture to the 'incidents and accidents' section and amended the caption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sejtam (talk • contribs) 13:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Crash image / COI
IP editor has twice  removed the image of the Flight 214 wreckage from where it illustrates the incident in the section "Incidents and accidents". Other edits have included removal of the newsrelease template, with no associated edit to address the issue, and numerous other edits that appear largely neutral. Most of his or her edits are to this article or related ones such as Asiana Airlines destinations. The IP address gelocates to Seoul, and I suspect it belongs to an Asiana employee or other individual with a WP:COI.

I've been recovering the image, because I believe it illustrates this portion of the article appropriately, but I realized that neither the IP nor I have adequately expressed that reasoning in our edit summaries (I've reverted with Twinkle, which presets the edit summary), so I'm raising it here. If there is a consensus to delete the image, I'll cease reverting. TJRC (talk) 01:18, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You have my vote. I think its an appropriate use of the image. Trackinfo (talk) 01:48, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I note that IP editors originating in Asia continue to remove the image. I've added an explanatory comment not to remove. My position is that a single image, of either the most recent incident or the most prominent incident, for which a photograph is available, is appropriate for the section. TJRC (talk) 17:02, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

 * A clear case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT I'm afraid. I doubt that the IPs will read this, but here it is - "we show it warts and all".
 * If there are continued problems with the removal, drop me a note and I'll semi-protect the article. Mjroots (talk) 18:28, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 08:25, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 14 one external links on Asiana Airlines. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100917121221/http://www.flyasiana.com:80/english/ to http://www.flyasiana.com/english/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101122202353/https://flyasiana.com/about/introduce/introduce.asp to http://flyasiana.com/about/introduce/introduce.asp
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131004213116/http://flyasiana.com/about/introduce/history06.asp to http://flyasiana.com/about/introduce/history06.asp#topGlobal01
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121122144719/https://flyasiana.com/download_file/ASIANA_AIRLINES_SR_2012_eng_low.pdf to https://flyasiana.com/download_file/ASIANA_AIRLINES_SR_2012_eng_low.pdf
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130317001701/http://flyasiana.com/service/article/article_sleep/article_sleep02.asp to http://flyasiana.com/service/article/article_sleep/article_sleep02.asp
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604005151/http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2007/06/12/afx3810988.html to http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Awards-2010/Airline2010.htm

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Split
Many, many other airlines, including much smaller airlines than Asiana, feature their own fleet page. WHY NOT this???? SurferSquall (talk) 15:40, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

 * There's no need. I find it unlikely that the fleet is specifically a notable topic independent of Asiana. Instead, those other fleet articles are there because the primary articles are too large to include intricate information about the airline's fleet. Since the article for Asiana is short, it can have a section dedicated to its fleet without being bloated. : 3 F4U (they/it) 02:26, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear user F4U,
 * I agree with your opinion. Such as Delta, the Singapore Airlines article is too large, and needed for separate articles. But this page isn't too large for need. Thank you for your kind and professional advice. KorFlyer88 (talk) 05:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, as a frequent viewer, I cannot still understand why the user, SurferSquall is messing with the page by keep adding the page. It is quite inconvenient to use. When I see that user's page, he/she is doing various of edit wars and vandalism. If I may, could you return to the previous version and block that user from unneeded edits? 1.242.84.212 (talk) 14:34, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You have seventeen warns and a year-long block on your talk page. How do I know you aren't KorFlyer on a different address? SurferSquall (talk) 23:29, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As mentioned by others, the fleet page doesn't need. And as a viewer, it is quite inconvenient to see.
 * Refer to WP:WHENSPLIT, the only valid reasons for split are if the section becomes too large, or if the material is seen to be inappropriate for the article due to being out of scope. The number of words in this article is only 2011 words, per WP:SIZERULE, and total < 6000 words -> Length alone does not justify division.. even if it does get large, WP:HASTE states There is no need for haste in splitting an article when it starts getting large. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:56, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear user User:Ckfasdf,
 * Thank you for your kind professional feedback. Since the article isn't too large, I thought splitting the article doesn't have a valid purpose.
 * Could you reverse the previous version? It will be very helpful.
 * Thank you. KorFlyer88 (talk) 06:52, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, Multiple editors have expressed their objection to the split (on this talk page, edit summary of this article and edit summary on Asiana Airlines fleet: Revision history. And refer to WP:STATUSQUO, the disputed point should not be changed during discussion (Status quo ante bellum), which is edit dated around April 2023 or before the undiscussed split happen. Ckfasdf (talk) 05:01, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much.
 * I really appreciate your contribution. If there's anything I can do in Wikipedia, please contact me at all times. KorFlyer88 (talk) 07:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, there are several smaller airline articles that were split into separate pages. An administrator reverted your edits on this page previously because you did not receive a consensus. SurferSquall (talk) 12:12, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Reply from multiple users, there's no reason to split basis on the policies.
 * Since the article is below 6,000 words, splitting is unnecessary. Please noted WP:WHENSPLIT, WP:SIZERULE.
 * Furthermore, I mentioned over again, like other users, splitting isn't needed and there are no connections of reverting from the administrator. I don't want to get involved in disruptive editing to get blocked.
 * Feedback from lots of pro users, remove to the previous version at once.
 * and Do Not reply of my feedback. Thank you. KorFlyer88 (talk) 12:24, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You cannot expect to make demands of somebody else and have them do it. There is no feedback from “lots of pro users” here. The administrator reverted the edit when you undid the split. Do not change it. SurferSquall (talk) 17:23, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The admin revert his edit due to edit warring, also the admin misses the version before edit warring. And your argument for split is basically WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, which is not quite compelling compared to WP:Guideline (in this case Article size). Ckfasdf (talk) 05:01, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, on previous feedback, separating can be allowed if the article is too large, and over 6,000 words. But it doesn't match it. and mentioning the admin felt like an excuse, but it isn't matching with the policy.
 * Please check the split policy and change it at once.
 * I'll emphasize, DO NOT reply to my feedback, I don't want to get involved in your unexplained, unreasonable edit war. Thank you. KorFlyer88 (talk) 23:59, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Here I am replying to you because Wikipedia is a free website and you cannot stop me. OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is relevant here because the other airline articles that have been split into separate pages set a precedent for this. Article size is irrelevant. SurferSquall (talk) 08:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you realize that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is argument to avoid on discussion? Please read the title. Ckfasdf (talk) 08:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I really don't quite follow your meaning. according to the policy and opinions from other users above, the split can be allowed when over 6,000 words.
 * Personally, it seems to be privatised. Since it is destructive, I won't reply. KorFlyer88 (talk) 08:38, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The length of an article alone does not matter. Also, like with previous discussions, please learn proper English so that you make sense. SurferSquall (talk) 09:55, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Since vandalism, depreciating of policy and other users, it seems to be reported of activities(incl. behaviour). Overall, I don't want to get involved in edit war offences. KorFlyer88 (talk) 11:02, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There are multiple editors who object the split such as me, Freedom4U, KorFlyer88, VenFlyer98, and several IP editors. And yet, you still insist to make the split. I can't see how "split" is the consensus. Ckfasdf (talk) 12:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Against splitting. The fleet section only includes tables and pictures. I do not think that is enough for a stand-alone article.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 12:44, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Dear Jetstramer,
 * It really helpful for this discussion. I'll also contribute continously, if is there anything to comment, it will also helpfu.
 * Thank you very much of your professionality. KorFlyer88 (talk) 13:21, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Asiana Airlines


text:
Ferry Tales

Ferry Tales is a 2003 American short documentary film written, produced and directed by Katja Esson. It follows the conversations of women in the powder room of the Staten Island Ferry during the morning commute from Staten Island to Manhattan. It was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Documentary Short.

Story
Ferry Tales exposes a secret world that exists in the powder room of the Staten Island Ferry—a place that brings together suburban moms and urban dwellers, white-collar and blue-collar, sisters and socialites. For 30 minutes every day, they gather around mirrors to put on their makeup – talking not as wives, mothers, or professionals, but just as themselves. Sassy and honest, they dish on everything from sex scandals to stilettos, family problems to September 11, leaving stereotypes at the door and surprising viewers with their straight-shooting wisdom.

In broaching such topics as divorce, single motherhood and domestic violence, Ferry Tales goes beyond the surface to show us the realities of life for working women. A rare and honest look at the intersections of race and class, this heartwarming film is utterly charming and often outrageous, FERRY TALES gives these unlikely heroines their moment in the spotlight.

Production
Inspired by an idea of Cassis Birgit Staudt, Katja Esson decided in July 2001 to create a sort of ‘working-girl’ documentary about the women who occupy the ladies bathroom on the ferry each and every morning. Coming up with a concept was simple enough, but trying to gain the confidence of these women and filming them in their element was quite another matter.

Then, just as filming had started, the tragic events of September 11 happened. At first, Esson felt she would have to scrap the project altogether. Instead, she kept filming. The resulting footage shows just how strong a sense of community exists between the many different women in the powder room.

Film Festivals & Awards
'''Esson's film gives a fantastic glimpse into one of the countless secret sub-cultures of New York. Her brilliant portrayal rethinks class and gender and turns our ideas of the suburban/urban divide on their head'.'' (K.E. Flemming, New York University)

Academy Award Nominee for Best Short Doc

Women's Network Awards - Best Documentary Film

Underdog Film Festival - Best Doc

Annapolis Film Festival - Honorable Mention

Woodstock Film Festival - Honorable Mention

title: Ferry Tales