text:
Talk:Battle of Adwa

Disputed edits
I invite IP 2A00:23C4:6214:FA01:0:0:0:0/64 to discuss their preferred edits here rather than edit warring. Only a talk page consensus can result in the re-addition of disputed content. This appears to be a misunderstanding of the norms regarding info boxes. See MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE for advice, also discussed by above. Generalrelative (talk) 17:07, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

, pls see Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

please see OP to this section. Also my most recent edit summary: Gain consensus before adding commanders. Template documentation limits the number of entries. Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE and documentation, commanders must be key or significant, as evidenced by the body of the article and not just a passing mention. This is very similar to the edit summary for when the IP first attempted to add an extensive list of commanders to the infobox. Casting aspersions about editors really isn't very WP:CIVIL and certainly doesn't help build consensus. I would suggest you read WP:ONUS as well as the other linked information. You might then propose which additional and/or alternative commanders should be added on the basis that the article evidences that their inclusion is not just "information" but "key information" per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE and that they were key or significant commanders (per the template documentation) as evidenced by the article and not just a passing mention that they were there. Also, per the documentation, the list should be limited to seven a side at the most. It would probably be most productive to discuss alterations on a case-by case basis rather than en mass. Cinderella157 (talk) 14:05, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

 * are you trying to insult me with that reply you need to stop being a fool of yourself and as you can clearly see that it says they were COMMANDERS and COMMANDED in the battle of adwa, i suggest you stop speaking before i absolutely destroy you if you want to get into a debate and i highly recommend you stop undo-ing or i swear upon god i will report you to your authorities. Thanks. DrNiko giannispolous (talk) 17:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

social studies
the battle of adwa 196.189.113.133 (talk) 06:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Russian involvment
@Cinderella157 Have you looked into the sources citing Russian involvement? Most of them are links to VERY sketchy Russian websites. The claim that Russian advisors were present at the battle came from Leonitev himself, however, according to this source Leonitev was in Djibouti during the battle. Another source from Richard Pankhurst (which is ironically cited in the article) states ''Though conceived as a medical support for the Ethiopian troops it arrived too late for the actual fighting, which came to end with the Ethiopian victory, at Adwa, on 1 March 1896. The Russians did not reach Harar until May, of that year, and appeared in Addis Ababa only in July, i.e. some four months after Menilek's Adwa victory.'' this source also describes how Leonitiev was not even affiliated with the Russian government and was a "military adventurer". I propose that we remove Russia from the infobox as there are reliable sources stating that they weren't present and the source stating that they were seem questionable at best. محرر البوق (talk) 04:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Not certain about the sketchiness of the Russian sources (didn't look), but this looks reasonable at face value. Made a wee copy edit to your edit. Better to be specific rather than claiming "most". Cinderella157 (talk) 11:15, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Cinderella157 Here are some links to the sources that I removed. I'd like to add that they are more additional sources stating that Leonitev was not present at the battle. (pg 313) which I believe was cited and which in French talks about how the Russians along with Leontiev did not arrive until a couple months after the battle, hence there seems to be a general consensus among academic sources that Russian "advisors" were not present until after the actual fighting was over, infact I couldn’t really find anything on google books explicitly stating that Leoniteiv participated in the battle. Although there was one French volunteer who might of been present.

 * I would also like to share to you this Twitter thread by a Ukrainian academic, while obviously not a reliable source, he explains the role of Russia in Ethiopia more accurately then I ever could محرر البوق (talk) 18:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

 * I am sufficiently convinced about this issue. It was just that there are words to avoid when writing and "most", in this context is one of them. You could add additional sources and rephrase the passage I edited to refer to "sources" but not "most sources". Or you could just leave it the way it is. Either way ... Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 23:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Agilulf2007,WP:BRD please discuss here. Also that 3,643 you keep citing is not the death toll that was cited in the source (his estimate is provided on the infobox and "immediate aftermath"), adding that this is called WP:SYNTH and is explicitly forbidden on Wikipedia. Another thing to add is that on Wikipedia we prefer secondary sources (scholarship) over primary sources. Per WP:RSPRIMARY - ''Primary sources are often difficult to use appropriately. Although they can be both reliable and useful in certain situations, they must be used with caution in order to avoid original research. Although specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred. محرر البوق (talk) 20:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The death toll of 3,643 is indeed the official death toll, as cited by Richard Caulk in "Between the Jaws of Hyenas - A Diplomatic History of Ethiopia (1876-1896)", 2002, based on the offidial burial commision in 1896. It is not an estimate. Now that i am looking at your revision i notice that it is infact you are adding (your own) false figures onto the source cited above, and claiming that this is what it states, it does not! and if you wish to take this further i will report you. Your "estimate" of 5,900 is a unsourced destortion of the actual figure. As for your constant removal of the Supported by: section; France supported Menelik with a supply of 50.000 Fusil Gras rifles which Pankhurst described, from the 89.000 rifles at Adwa, as about half were fast firing. Nicolas Clochette a French military advisor of Menelik was present at Adwa itself. The Russian support, from Leontiev's wiki page, In 1895 Menelik ordered 30,000 rifles, 5,000,000 cartridges, 5000 sabres, and a few cannons delivered by Leontiev and while Leontiev was not at Adwa himself he did supply and train the Ethiopian forces. And according to Leonid Artamonov a further 42 mountain guns (artillery pieces) with a team of 15 instructors were supplied and served at Adwa. You seem to have a strong urge to censor this bit of information. It is non negligible to cite that the Ethhiopian army was not just numerically superior but also heavily supplied with superior weaponry by European powers.One of its consequences, Djibouti. If you wish to distort the article further with false estimates, along with false citations and censorship, i will report you. Edit: Btw everything in the infobox is multiply sourced, so im not sure what your problem actually is. User:Agilulf2007
 * @Agilulf2007, First of all, add 4 ~ at the end of your comments otherwise I'll have trouble in replying to you. Secondly, 3,643 is not the official death toll, that's not what the source says, I believe we already talked about this but 3,643 is amount of bodies that was recovered. The source instead estimates that 5,900 were killed, I don't even believe you've read the page Nearly 300 officers, 4,600 Italian rank and file, and 1,000 askari were estimated to have been killed. Please read Talk:First_Italo-Ethiopian_War, the French did not participate during this battle, what they did was supply weapons to Menelik BEFORE the battle occurred, Menelik proclaimed a general Ethiopian mobilisation against Italy. He enjoyed no direct European support. In July 1895 France had rejected his offer of an alliance, hoping for a prolonged conflict. But down to the end of 1895 (at least) the French continued to supply Menelik with arms. and the arms that the French supplied were Russian (Layers of Time, pg 168) and were supplied by various French arms dealers and a local sympathetic governor, infact the Italians provided more weapons to Menelik then the French (pg 95) so by your logic we should put Italy on the Supported By section as well.
 * You also made the claim that a French military advisor was present but you didn't provide any sources for that. Please provide sources before making such assertions. Leontiev's Wikipedia page is not reliable as those claims are not supported by any scholarship sources and are disputed by many academics (I have made many edits to that page and will make more in the future correcting those claims).
 * Lets look at the sources cited. The first source, from Richard Pankhurst, states that the Russians only arrived 4 months after the battle of Adwa. The second source, in Russian, states that although Leontiev served as a military advisor in the battle (mind you this is not true, this source is very dubious) was not able to secure Russian aid to Ethiopia in time for the battle. The visit of the Ethiopian delegation was widely and favorably covered in the Russian press. However, the main goal of the mission - to receive a large batch of weapons from Russia (the 135 rifles allocated by the Ministry of War for the Ethiopian army was clearly not enough) - was not achieved. So how am I distorting this article and providing "false citations and censorships" (lol) if the sources don't even say what you just said? Please read the sources and don't make wild accusations as I would like to remind you that this is a contentious topic and you could get TPbanned for that.
 * I also noticed that you've added back the previous information even though there was already prior consensus (Talk:Battle of Adwa/Archive 1) so I'm reverting your edit until we reach consensus.
 * محرر البوق (talk) 00:51, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

In regards to the French equipment: here is a quick summery: ''Marseilles, where he traded gold and ivory for 80,000 fusil gras , 33 pieces of artillery and a machine - gun. In the few years preceeding the Battle of Adwa the arms trade continued to grow. Menilek's Swiss friend and advisor, Alfred Ilg , went to Paris to buy weapons. Chefneux provided guns left over from the Franco-Madagascar war, as well as more quick-firing rifles. 135 cases of rifles and loads of ammunition were obtained from Russia, and a French ship landed at least 250,000 cartridges at Jibuti. British officials estimated 7,000 rifles were imported from Belgium.64'' its from 'Approaching Ethiopian History' Tim Carmichael Michigan State University. Department of History, 2001. The russian attachee Artamonov clearly stated that Russia delivered 42 mountain guns and 15 advisers, all present at the battle; and that doesnt even include Leontiev's mission earlier. (!not 135 rifles / 135 cases of rifles). The mention of Clochette in Ethiopia and present at Adwa is also in Caulk's book.Agilulf2007 (talk) 01:29, 15 July 2023 (UTC) User:Agilulf2007

 * @Agilulf2007 Yes, the French gave weapons to Ethiopia before the war began. Which is what your source says. Hence they shouldn't be included in the infobox as they were not a participant DURING the war. Chefneux was not affiliated with the French government, he was a private arms dealer who was a friend of Alfred Ilg and instead he was working for the Ethiopian government (pg 304). Leonid Artamonov did not participate in the battle of adwa, he is also known for making some very bizarre claims, hence he is not reliable unless he is backed by a secondary source. The source cited for the artillery came from a WP:MAF source, if you read here the author even forgot to remove the Wikipedia citations. Augustus Wyde, who actually visited the battlefield in the same year of 1896 says the artillery guns were purchased from French prior to the war (his book is available on archive.org) Caulk also says that there was only two Europeans in Meneliks army, so your sources contradict each other. Clochette was a retired French officer who arrived at Menelik's camp just before the battle began but his role in the battle is not discussed, saying that he was a "military advisor" is a wild exaggeration. Read The Battle of Adwa: African Victory in the Age of Empire by Raymond Jones, these Europeans (including Leontiev and Chefneux) were just actually various agents/merchants/adventurers/etc. To conclude that their respective nations, without sources, were supporters is an exaggeration. I would also like to remind you that the Italians provided Ethiopia with more firearms during that period so by your logic we should include Italy into the infobox. محرر البوق (talk) 02:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The French did not "give" (as in free of charge) anything to Ethiopia. They may have sold it, at best you can use "provided". But not "gave" which indicates they took Ehtiopian side - which no source supports. 145.224.105.244 (talk) 15:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I remembered we already had this discussion. Yet someone thought it was a good idea to delete all the conversation. Nonetheless i retrieved the source for the most precise figures [url=https://www.mimesisedizioni.it/libro/9788857575070]Link[/url] a more precise figure does not exist. I have re-edited the figures you agreed to before. Everything else is info vital for the article. Agilulf2007 (talk) 01:29, 15 July 2023 (UTC)User:Agilulf2007

 * Can you provide a full quote of what the source says? I can't verify it. محرر البوق (talk) 02:03, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Agilulf2007 I just noticed that you've combined the death toll of the Italians by Dominioni with the counted ascari death count from Caulk. Combining sources together to make up new estimates is called WP:SYNTH and is forbidden on Wikipedia. If we are going to use Caulk we have to cite his full figures. You also said that the Battle of Adwa led to Menelik personally rafitying Djibouti even though the source says it was due to a border agreement between the French and Ethiopians there are so many problems with your edits that this page is just a mess of WP:OR now. محرر البوق (talk) 02:23, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok, than lets say 4,424 Italians killed (incl 85 in captivity or 4,339 excl the 85 after the battle) and 618 Ascari killed (confirmed). These are the exact figures and everything else is a guesstimate and seemingly baseless as not even Caulk cites any source for his guesstimate and as you can see it is gretaly inflated as the Italian figure is actually 1,500 lower than what Caulk estimated; So providing an inflated and knowingly false estimate is misleading and distortive, especially since the exact figures are known. No, Clochette was not retired he was after Adwa given orders for a Nile campaign. France and Russia provided Ethiopia with military gear and personel, and you are again censoring this information. Please revert Agilulf2007 (talk) 09:11, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Btw all my edits provide sources; sources that you constantly remove, i dont think that is even allowed without a proper reason. Nontheless, the story of Djibouti is removed though you can read all about it in the source provided as why France was even in the region (interests), the British reaction and when and why Djibouti was ratifed to France by Menelik and the consequences of Ethiopia becoming a landlocked state. This conflict is not just about a "mighty colonial power" jacked up with wild estimates it is much more broader. But it is indeed smth for the article. Agilulf2007 (talk) 09:30, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

 * @Agilulf2007 No. You are literally making up estimates again. We don't combine refs to make up new estimates, we only cite the estimates provided by academia. Caulk's estimate is not false and misleading, your WP:OR is though, as I said before 618 Ascari were not killed, that is just the number of bodies they recovered and source literally says "Far fewer Eritreans were recovered". I literally gave you a proper reason, the sources say that the Russians didn't even arrive until 4 months after the battle, this is why they're included in the main article but not in this one. Secondly, your own source states that the French gave weapons PRIOR to the war, so they are not a participant and should not be included see MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE. The French actually refused to support Menelik during the war, if you read The Life and Times of Menelik II: Ethiopia 1844–1913 it states on pg (160) "At this point, Emperor Menelik turned to France, offering a treaty of alliance; the French response was to abandon the Emperor in order to secure Italian approval of the Treaty of Bardo which would secure French control of Tunisia. Virtually alone, on 17 September 1895, Emperor Menelik issued a proclamation calling up the men of Abyssinia to join his army at Were Ilu." Hence it is heavily misleading to add them as a participant without a source explicitly stating so (the sources cited do not say this, only that the Ethiopians used French arms.
 * Please read[[] "As the prisoners waited, they became acquainted with the only European to witness Adwa from the winning side, the retired French officer Captain Clochette had been among the European agents/merchants/advisors who had cultivated a relationship with Menelik." You also removed David L. Lewis's estimate of 17,770 troops, there's so many problems with your edits that I can't even effectively address them all. @Cinderella157 @Generalrelative I'd like to know your guys thoughts on this? His edits seem very problematic. محرر البوق (talk) 12:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm persuaded by this and the above, and have restored your version. Generalrelative (talk) 18:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

 * If I understand the issue of casualties correctly, the disagreement centres on estimates reported in sources v confirmed remains recovered some time later. The number of recovered remains (some time later) is not ipso facto the total casualties. Hyenas? We have two estimates given in the body of the article: ~5,900 (Caulk) and George Berkeley records that the Italian casualties were 6,133 men killed. The latter is unreasonably precise (per significant figures) and should probably be reported in the body as George Berkeley records that the Italian casualties were approximately 6,100 men killed. Accordingly, the infobox should report either a range of these two or, more simply ~6,000 - I tend to the latter. French merchants selling arms (per the body of the article) does not constitute French national support. That was previously discussed. It is fairly clear that N. S. Leontiev (and his Russians) was not at the battle. The article also reports conflicting stories about Russian guns and advisors v French made guns that were purchased. This should remain in the article. However, Russian support should not be presented in the infobox as if it were an undisputed fact. It is best for the infobox to remain silent on this. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:29, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes you are correct, the source even states that the burial commission did not recover all the bodies on the battlefield. I also agree with everything else you just said as well, ~6,000 is a reasonable estimate as almost all the sources state that it was around that number. (there's also another figure of 6,200 out there but I cant find it right now). محرر البوق (talk) 03:32, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

There are estimates and then there are exact figures. You are dealing with estimates that are completely groundless, at least Caulk does not cite any sources. The figure of the Burial Commision cited in Caulk is indeed incomplete, the figure of 3,025 belongs to Arimondi's column alone (Dominioni) and the 618 Ascari to Albertone's column alone; its just wrongly cited by Caulk (again). The full Italian casualties is listed in Dominioni's book; and it stands at 4,424 killed incl prisoners that died later of their wounds or 4,339 killed excl prisoners that died later of their wounds; and 618 Ascari (confirmed) by the Burial commision. Any other figures are just guesses a la gusto. There are also estimates for the Ethiopian side ranging from 7,000 killed - 10,000 killed; if the Infobox deals with wild estimates these should also be included. France and Russia supported Ethiopia and it is highly secondary whether Leontiev was at the battle or not (he was not), he is not even listed under Commanders anyway, he supplied weapons, munitions and training to the Ethiopians in an official mission, and Leonid Artamonov stated that Russia (official) supplied artillery pieces with instructors active at the battle. !!! Artamonov is not an historian writing a century later, he was a military attache at the time in Ethiopia. His account is thus very accurate !!! and yet you keep deleting it (censorship). French artillery was likewise present. The overall French support is obvious and a small summery is cited above. Clochette (also not under Commanders) retired or not was present at the battle as an official advisor, and later reactivated by the French for a campaign to the Nile. There was also a second French military present at the battle whose name can easily be retrived. I think a street in Djibouti is named after him, or after Clochette. Agilulf2007 (talk) 10:33, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Just to be on the same page here, the Berkeley figures sum up to 4,133 Italians killed (some 200 short of Dominioni) and adds an estimated 2,000 Ascari killed. That seems like an inflated estimate, especially since Berkeley also estimates a further 1,000 Ascari as prisoners. Yet, Abdussamad H. Ahmad and Richard Pankhurst mention that only 4,076 Acari were even ever present at the battle (Albertone's) and the Burial Commision only retrieved 618 Ascari corpses. The discrepancy to the estimate of an additional 1,000-1,500 killed seems phantastic. Caulk also mentions that several Ascari companies defected in the midst of battle to the Ethiopians (limiting their kills). He even laments the fact that the Ethiopian sources mention it otherwise he could style it as 'Italian propaganda' (bias?). Overall, what we are dealing with is the figure of Berkeley of 4,133 Italians killed vs. the figure of Domioni of 4,424 Italians killed. I opted for the latter. That up to 2,000 Ascari were killed is highly improbable as only 4,000 took part in the battle and only 618 corpses were actually retrieved. Yes, i deleted the estimate of 17,700 in light of the exact figure of 14,519. Btw, the 'Supported by:' section can be deleted for all i care (i didnt even create it) and placed in the article. But then the 'Strength' section should mention the arms and quantity obtained and used by the Ethiopians, as this is a point both Pankhurst and Berkeley also stress. The Pankhurst quote for example existed in the infobox for years, i didnt even put it there but you deleted it (reason ?). Agilulf2007 (talk) 12:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Once again, NO! You are making up new estimates again. We have already agreed that 618 Ascari were not killed but you still keep insisting on that number. Another estimate states that 7,104 Ascari were present at the battle but you conveniently keep removing that. You also assert that Caulk and Berkeley figures are "unreliable", completely ridiculous, this is not how we do things on encyclopedias, you don't dismiss reliable secondary sources like that. Your assertion that Caulk and Berkeley are not reliable is based on nothing, absolutely nothing, which is absurd because they are both scholarship sources. Textbook example of WP:SYNTH and original research, like I said before we don't make up new estimates we only cite the ones provided by scholarship. Almost all estimates for Italian casualties hover around 6,000 killed so it is reasonable to sum it up to that number. As for the estimates of 7,000-10,000 killed, that would contradict the main article which states that number, although I'm not personally against it, you'd have to get User:Cinderella157 on board before adding that number in. Also we already established that claim about Russian artillery is suspect, Augustus Wyle in his book "Modern Abyssinia" states that the artillery were purchased from the French or captured from the Egyptians in a previous war, and he visited the battlefield in the same year of 1896.
 * Secondly you keep adding back information even though there was already consensus that those should be removed (this is still considered reverting). This is called WP:IDHT and WP:TEND which are both considered Disruptive editing. You just need to let this go at this point. As for the arms and quantity of the arms, that can be mentioned in the body of the article, I've never seen an article add this in their infobox before and its pretty clear from reading the article that almost all of the Ethiopians were armed with modern rifles. محرر البوق (talk) 16:51, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Neither nor myself have been convinced regarding the lesser figure for Italian casualties nor most of the other stuff that would be added to the infobox with this edit - yet again.  The argument being made for the lesser Italian casualty figure is a dead parrot. The inclusion of Russia and France in the infobox is not supported by the body of the article at present. Other material added looks too much like trying to write the article in the infobox and therefore contrary to WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. The body of the article does state: Whereas Berkeley estimates Ethiopian losses to be 7,000 killed and 10,000 wounded. The infobox should probably be amended to reflect the body of the article and the range of Ethiopian casualties from Caulk and Berkeley? Cinderella157 (talk) 01:54, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Me personally I would be in support of something similar to the Casualties and losses section at the Battle of Dogali infobox as 3,886-7,000 is too high of a range. Wounded can be left out so it doesn't look too messy. محرر البوق (talk) 03:47, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

 * It is not uncommon for conflicts to have reports of casualties which vary widely, yet the predominant practice is to nevertheless report such as a range. I have not previously seen the use of or and am not in favour of it. It suggests a binary choice when, in reality, if the real figure were actually known, it would almost certainly be something else in between. As a compromise, I suggest adding citations to each figure of the range, thereby indicating that we are dealing with figures from two different sources - even though we are not required to because the figures have sources in the body of the article. I am not opposed to reporting just the killed on both sides, since we are not reporting the wounded on both sides. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Cinderella157 Sorry for not responding quick enough, was not aware you replied to me, but I agree with your proposed changes now because according to Encyclopaedia Aethiopica the Ethiopian casualties were 4,000-5,000 killed so it's almost certainty between those two estimates. محرر البوق (talk) 09:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , all good. I've been a bit occupied myself. Done now but I didn't place the citations. The citations for Berkeley's figure were not to Berkeley's work, so I wasn't sure about whether to use one or both, though a direct citation to Berkeley would be better. If you have it, it would be better to use it in the body of the article. Add the citations to the infobox if you wish. Cinderella157 (talk) 00:10, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2023
Change: "The Ethiopian forces defeated the Italian invading force on Sunday 1 March 1896, near the town of Adwa."

To: "Ethiopian forces, including civilian combatants and logistics units, defeated the Italian invading force on Sunday 1 March 1896, near the town of Adwa."

Citation: The Battle of Adwa: reflections on Ethiopia's historic victory against European colonialism. New York: Algora Publishing, 2005. Pp. 320.

Change: "At the Battle of Adwa, Ethiopian fighters from all parts of the country rallied to the cause and took up positions on the battlefield that allowed them to come to each other's aid during combat."

To: "At the Battle of Adwa, Ethiopian fighters from all parts of the country rallied to the cause and took up positions on the battlefield that allowed them to come to each other's aid during combat. Ethiopia did not have a national army but a strong patriotic and military tradition meant all able-bodied men answered the call for combat."

Citation: Raymond A. Jonas, The Battle of Adwa: African Victory in the Age of Empire. Cambridge: Harvard Univ. Press, 2011. Pp. 413. Oabera (talk) 06:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Furthermore, the additions appear to be POV-pushing. (courtesy ping User:Oabera) HouseBlastertalk 19:48, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Battle of Adowa
Why is the English language name for this battle missing from the article?

Until the invention of Wikipedia, there was no place called Adwa in English.

142.205.202.71 (talk) 19:34, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battle of Adwa


text:
La Venganza Será Terrible

La venganza será terrible (Revenge will be terrible) is a popular radio program in Argentina, also broadcast in Uruguay. It is hosted by Alejandro Dolina.

The program began on Radio El Mundo with the title "Demasiado tarde para lágrimas" ("Too late for tears"). It later moved to Radio Rivadavia under the same name, and then briefly to FM under the name "El Ombligo del Mundo" ("The Navel of the World"). It moved to Radio Continental until recently. On January 4, 2007, it moved to Radio 10. In 2010 the program moved to Radio Nacional. Internet broadcasts are available from Radio Nacional from Argentina, and Espectador, a Uruguayan radio station in Montevideo.

The show is free of charge and broadcasts Tuesdays to Saturdays from midnight to 2:00 AM, live from the auditorium of Radio Nacional. The show has three parts. In the first one, Dolina discusses a cultural subject (mostly European, Ancient Greek, or South American culture). The second part is humorous: Dolina usually goes through "lifestyle" magazines and, while reading the articles, he starts improvising stories that can go quite far from the original article. In the third part he sings songs that the audience asks for. Dolina is known for his vast knowledge of the tango music.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: La Venganza Será Terrible


text: Talk:Klaus Fuchs

title: Talk:Klaus Fuchs


text:
Azolla

Azolla (mosquito fern, duckweed fern, fairy moss, water fern) is a genus of seven species of aquatic ferns in the family Salviniaceae. They are extremely reduced in form and specialized, looking nothing like other typical ferns but more resembling duckweed or some mosses. Azolla filiculoides is one of just two fern species for which a reference genome has been published. It is believed that this genus grew so prolifically during the Eocene (and thus absorbed such a large amount of carbon) that it triggered a global cooling event that has lasted to the present.

Azolla may establish as an invasive plant in areas where it is not native. In such a situation it can alter aquatic ecosystems and biodiversity substantially.

Phylogeny
Phylogeny of Azolla

Other species include:

At least six extinct species are known from the fossil record:
 * Azolla intertrappea Sahni & H.S. Rao, 1934 (Eocene, India)
 * Azolla berryi Brown, 1934 (Eocene, Green River Formation, Wyoming)
 * Azolla prisca Chandler & Reid, 1926 (Oligocene, London Clay, Isle of Wight)
 * Azolla tertiaria Berry, 1927 (Pliocene, Esmeralda Formation, Nevada)
 * Azolla primaeva (Penhallow) Arnold, 1955 (Eocene, Allenby Formation, British Columbia)
 * Azolla boliviensis Vajda & McLoughlin, 2005 (Maastrichtian – Paleocene, Eslaboacuten Formation and Flora Formation Bolivia)

Ecology

Azolla is a highly productive plant. It can double its biomass in as little as 1.9 days, depending on growing conditions, and yield can reach 8–10 tonnes fresh matter/ha in Asian rice fields. 37.8 t fresh weight/ha (2.78 t/ha dry weight) has been reported for Azolla pinnata in India (Hasan et al., 2009).

Azolla floats on the surface of water by means of numerous small, closely overlapping scale-like leaves, with their roots hanging in the water. They form a symbiotic relationship with the cyanobacterium Anabaena azollae, an extracellular endosymbiont (living outside the host's cells) which fixes atmospheric nitrogen. The typical limiting factor on its growth is phosphorus; thus, an abundance of phosphorus—due for example to eutrophication or chemical runoff—often leads to Azolla blooms. Unlike all other known plants, its symbiotic microorganism transfers directly from one generation to the next. A. azollae is completely dependent on its host, as several of its genes have either been lost or transferred to the nucleus in Azolla's cells.

The nitrogen-fixing capability of Azolla has led to widespread use as a biofertiliser, especially in parts of southeast Asia. The plant has been used to bolster agricultural productivity in China for over a thousand years. When rice paddies are flooded in the spring, they can be planted with Azolla, which then quickly multiplies to cover the water, suppressing weeds. The rotting plant material resulting from the die off of this Azolla releases nitrogen into the water for the rice plants, providing up to nine tonnes of protein per hectare per year.

Azolla are weeds in many parts of the world, entirely covering some bodies of water. The myth that no mosquito can penetrate the coating of fern to lay its eggs in the water gives the plant its common name "mosquito fern", and may deter the survival of some of the larvae.

Most species can produce large amounts of deoxyanthocyanins in response to various stresses, including bright sunlight and extreme temperatures, causing the water surface to appear to be covered with an intensely red carpet. Herbivore feeding induces accumulation of deoxyanthocyanins and leads to a reduction in the proportion of polyunsaturated fatty acids in the fronds, thus lowering their palatability and nutritive value.

Azolla cannot survive winters with prolonged freezing, so is often grown as an ornamental plant at high latitudes where it cannot establish itself firmly enough to become a weed. It is also not tolerant of salinity; normal plants cannot survive in greater than 1–1.6‰, and even conditioned organisms die if grown in water with a salinity above 5.5‰.

Azolla filiculoides
Azolla filiculoides (red azolla) is the only member of this genus and of the family Azollaceae in Tasmania. It is a common native aquatic plant in Tasmania. It is common behind farm dams and other still waterbodies. The plants are small (usually only a few cm across) and float, but they are fast growing, and can be abundant and form large mats. The plants are typically red, and have small, water repellent leaves.

Reproduction
Azolla reproduces sexually, and asexually (by splitting).

Like all ferns, sexual reproduction leads to spore formation, but unlike other members of this group Azolla is heterosporous, producing spores of two kinds. During the summer months, numerous spherical structures called sporocarps form on the undersides of the branches. The male sporocarp is greenish or reddish and looks like the egg mass of an insect or spider. It is two millimeters in diameter, and bears numerous male sporangia. Male spores (microspores) are extremely small and are produced inside each microsporangium. Microspores tend to adhere in clumps called massulae.

Female sporocarps are much smaller, containing one sporangium and one functional spore. Since an individual female spore is considerably larger than a male spore, it is termed a megaspore.

Azolla has microscopic male and female gametophytes that develop inside the male and female spores. The female gametophyte protrudes from the megaspore and bears a small number of archegonia, each containing a single egg. The microspore forms a male gametophyte with a single antheridium which produces eight swimming sperm. The barbed glochidia on the male spore clusters cause them to cling to the female megaspores, thus facilitating fertilization.

Food and animal feed
In addition to its traditional cultivation as a bio-fertilizer for wetland paddies, Azolla is finding increasing use for sustainable production of livestock feed. Azolla is rich in protein, essential amino acids, vitamins, and minerals. Studies describe feeding Azolla to dairy cattle, pigs, ducks, and chickens, with reported increases in milk production, weight of broiler chickens and egg production of layers, as compared to conventional feed. One FAO study describes how Azolla integrates into a tropical biomass agricultural system, reducing the need for food supplements. Concerns about biomagnification exist because the plant may contain the neurotoxin BMAA that remains present in the bodies of animals consuming it and BMAA has been documented as passing along the food chain. Azolla may contain this substance that is a possible cause of neurodegenerative diseases. Azolla has been suggested as a foodstuff for human consumption, however, no long-term studies of the safety of eating Azolla have been made on humans. Previous studies attributed neurotoxin production to Anabaena flos-aquae species, which is also a type of nitrogen-fixing cyanobacteria. Further research may be needed to ascertain if A. azollae produces neurotoxins.

Companion plant
Azolla has been used for at least one thousand years in rice paddies as a companion plant, to fix nitrogen and to block out light to prevent competition from other plants. Rice is planted when tall enough to poke through the Azolla layer. Mats of mature Azolla can also be used as a weed-suppressing mulch.

Rice farmers used Azolla as a rice biofertilizer 1500 years ago. The earliest known written record of this practice is in a book written by Jia Ssu Hsieh (Jia Si Xue) in 540 AD on The Art of Feeding the People (Chih Min Tao Shu). By the end of the Ming dynasty in the early 17th century, Azolla 's use as a green compost was documented in local records.

Larvicide
The myth that no mosquito can penetrate the coating of fern to lay its eggs in the water gives the plant its common name "mosquito fern". Azolla have been used to control mosquito larvae in rice fields. The plant grows in a thick mat on the surface of the water, making it more difficult for the larvae to reach the surface to breathe, effectively choking the larvae.

Climate change
Azolla has been proposed as a carbon sequestration modality. The proposal draws upon the hypothesized Azolla event that asserts that Azolla once covered the Arctic and then sank, permanently sequestering teratons of carbon that would otherwise have contributed to the planet's greenhouse effect and ending a warming event that reached 12-15 C-change degrees warmer than twenty-first century averages.

They contribute significantly to decreasing the atmospheric CO2 levels.

Invasive species
This fern has been introduced to other parts of the world, including the United Kingdom, where it has become a pest in some areas. A nominally tropical plant, it has adapted to the colder climate. It can form mats up to 30 cm thick and cover 100% of a water surface, preventing local insects and amphibians from reaching the surface.

Importance in paleoclimatology
A study of Arctic paleoclimatology reported that Azolla may have had a significant role in reversing an increase in greenhouse effect that occurred 55 million years ago that had caused the region around the north pole to turn into a hot, tropical environment. This research was conducted by the Institute of Environmental Biology at Utrecht University. It indicates that massive patches of Azolla growing on the (then) freshwater surface of the Arctic Ocean consumed enough carbon dioxide from the atmosphere for the global greenhouse effect to decline, eventually causing the formation of ice sheets in Antarctica and the current "icehouse period". This theory has been termed the Azolla event.

Bioremediation
Azolla can remove chromium, nickel, copper, zinc, and lead from effluent. It can also remove lead from solutions containing 1–1000 ppm.

title: Azolla


text:
Talk:Völkner incident

Execution
The phrasing around the execution of Völkner is very white-centric. Like Arthur Wakefield before him, Völkner wasn't murdered - he was executed by the people who actually belong to the land, in Völkner's case, after a trial. Similarly the idea that this is a sad or unfortunate story is extra-white.Jameskjx (talk) 03:57, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Untitled
There is an inaccuracy in regard to what the crown did with the land they confiscated as a result of the incident. It says that the land was sold but that’s not the full story. Large portions of it were also gifted by the military to soldiers, in lots of 50 Acres per land parcel. Soldiers received very little actual wages, other than rations and land. My reference is that the diary of my relative, a soldier, says he received a 50 Acre land parcel, then he set about to buy land parcels from other soldiers. So he ended up with quite a lot of land that had been confiscated. Five generations later none of us are sure what happened to it. It’s not in the family and we have no great estates, only what we have earned ourselves in our own lifetimes. So it’s not very clear what happened to the land, but there is enough support in my families historic records to prove that the military were using this confiscated land to pay their soldiers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.210.166.237 (talk) 18:06, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Untitled
Just a comment on why I have made an update to this entry. I continually see, in various places (invariably non-authoritative or non-specialist sources) statements to the effect that Völkner was not involved in passing on intelligence to the authorities. I have placed an explicit reference in my update to one of the authoritative sources that he was in fact doing so; hopefully, the dissemination of this via Wikipedia will reduce the frequency of false ‘history’ around this subject. I have also removed some of the stuff about the Pakeha population being unduly alarmed. No doubt some were; but the fact that a slapstick farce on incidents connected with Volkner's death ran for 2 weeks on the Auckland stage soon after indicates that at least some were more sanguine ... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MisterCDE (talk • contribs) 15/05/2006. Yes, I think you are right that Volkner did send information to the govt about the activities of Maori rebels. He was bound to do this as it was unlawful and all Maori were bound by NZ law.But a key point is how did local Maori find out about this? The answer is that a Catholic missionary, wanting to spike his rivals religious guns, told the Maori a higly fanciful version.It is note worthy that the goverment spoke to the Catholic authorities and the missionary was immediatly moved to Australia but rumours were spread in the area that he had been killed by govt forces.This underlines the latent hostility between the 2 groups of missonaries and the lengths the Catholic church missionaies would go to capture Maori souls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.154.179 (talk) 02:03, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Image
There's a really good image at NZ History which looks old and out of copyright, and would be great to illustrate this article with, but the Turnbull Library has a note on it asking for permission to re-use. Does anyone know how that works with the GFDL? --Tirana 04:58, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Volkner Incident or Völkner Incident
Craitman17 has recently moved this page from Volkner Incident to Völkner Incident, and similarly changed the spelling within the article. Is this really what we should do? Personally, while I agree the umlaut should be used when referring to Carl Sylvius Völkner by name, I don't believe it is commonly used when referring to the Volkner Incident (or the Volkner Rocks) so I don't think we should use it in these contexts. But I'd be interested to hear what others think. -- Avenue (talk) 02:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

 * After looking around further, I've found two documents online that use the umlaut ( and ), so perhaps it's not as uncommon as I thought. -- Avenue (talk) 13:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Volkner incident
Volkner was a protestant and was in competition with a catholic missionary. This is what is at the heart of the reason why previously very friendly Maori suddenly became violent. The arrival of the violent hauhau cult in the area is the second reason. This cult was very violent and definitely not christian .The hauhau leader who carried out the murder and eye eating was later convicted and hung for murder. The hauhau were far worse rebels than the kingites who had been defeated in 1863-4.Hauhau went back to the brutality that was part and parcel of traditional Maori battle tikanga in pre christian times. Their actions were very similar to those of many hapu during the musket war period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.58.190.90 (talk) 03:37, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Was this event historically known as the "Volkner Incident"? That sounds to me very much like a modern PC euphemism. I would have thought "Volkner Murder" would have been the traditional - and less biased- title.203.184.41.226 (talk) 03:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Cause
The congregation had lapsed [oddly described as having "moved on"] from Christianity to Hau Hauism. That much is certain.

However, was Völkner's death "caused by his willingness to act as an agent of Governor Sir George Grey"? Volkner may have been writing to the Governor, but that is not a motive for murder, and nor were the Hau Hau even aware of his correspondence. Isn't their radicalism - anti-pakeha and pro-cannibalism - sufficient motive and cause?203.184.41.226 (talk) 03:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC) The article as is,is inaccurate and misleading. Part or much of the blame for Volkner's murder lies at the feet of the rival Roman Catholic missionary who was attempting to undermine the position of the protestant minister Volkner. This was as easy as linking the protestant church to the government. It must be remembered that the 1863 war in the Waikato was started by local Maori in Te Awamutu trying to kill the magistrate Gorst and other settlers and then burning down the Protestant backed Maori trade school.The government reaction was to carry their attack against rebel Maori into the Waikato. Going further back it was the Catholic Bishop Pompelier who incited Maori in the north not to sign the Treaty of Waitangi. Volkner had a duty as a loyal New Zealander to report what was going on. The law then is fundamentally the same as now-citizens have a duty to report crime or suspected crime. In those days when the telegraph was in its infancy, letter writing was the main way that citizens kept in touch with each other. Police simply didnt exist in that part of New Zealand so people wrote to authority figures when they saw an issue. Before the beheading and canabalism Hau hau spread the rumour that the French Catholic missionary Reignier who had baptised the eye eater, had been killed by the government.In fact he had been recalled to Australia by the Catholics due to his meddling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Völkner incident


text:
Talk:Soyuz 28

training and russian
the last chapter is totally wrong: most, if not all "Interkosmos" cosmonauts (mostly military pilots)spoke excellent russian because they studied in the USSR for some years, alos russian was the official language of the Warsaw pact and used exclusive on civil and military aircrafts. especially cosmonauts from slavic nations like Czech Republic or Slovacia can learn and speak russian very easily because the languages are very much related --Henristosch 21:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

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A Crow Left of the Murder...

A Crow Left of the Murder... is the fifth studio album by the American rock band Incubus, released on February 3, 2004. The album marks the first appearance of bassist Ben Kenney, following the departure of founding member Dirk Lance. The singles from the album are "Megalomaniac" and "Talk Shows on Mute". "Agoraphobia" was released as a promo single.

Music
The music of A Crow Left of the Murder... has been considered to have elements of art rock, alternative rock, alternative metal, jazz, pop and progressive rock. The work of guitarist Mike Einziger takes equal prominence in focus to that of vocalist Brandon Boyd, in contrast to previous albums which focused more prominently on Boyd's vocalization. MTV reviewer Joe D'Angelo claimed that on the album Einziger's "funk and metal roots haven't completely disappeared; they're now just the foundation on which a repertoire of jazz, blues and progressive rock is built." Some critics believed that the band were allowed to take more musical risks on the album following the commercial success of 2001's Morning View, although Einziger said in a 2004 interview that, "we've never felt we didn't have that freedom. We've always done what we wanted. It's kind of self-serving, but that's how we do it. We try not to pay attention to anything but each other."

Songs
Einziger has said that "Megalomaniac" was originally written on an acoustic guitar, despite being one of the heavier songs on the album. Boyd remarked that "'Megalomaniac' means self-exaltation, and to be crazy for big things. The song is about power crazed people and their destructive behavior." He adds, "lyrically speaking I know that there were a lot of things going on in and around the world and there were some very specific people in my mind coming dangerously close to having megalomaniacal tendencies and so I did my best to write those thoughts down." While it was written around the time George W. Bush ordered the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Boyd claimed the person in the song was a composite of several people, and primarily inspired by a character in the 1986 movie Three Amigos. The music video for the song was handled by Italian-Canadian director Floria Sigismondi, and had allusions to both Adolf Hitler and Bush. Sigismondi came up with the concept for the video, with Boyd reflecting in 2004 that "when we did the video for 'Megalomaniac,' it was a really rewarding experience. Not only the outcome, the process was very rewarding as well. She's a great person. She knew exactly what she wanted to see and wasn't afraid to ask for it. She wasn't a screamer — some directors are screamers, they just yell at people. She didn't do that, which was nice."

Due to the political references, MTV initially refused to show the "Megalomaniac" video except for late at night, as it was under pressure from conservative groups following the 2004 Janet Jackson Super Bowl controversy, where one of the singer's breasts was exposed at a halftime show they produced. In response to the Super Bowl controversy, MTV moved six potentially offensive videos to late night rotation, with "Megalomaniac" being the only one without any explicit sexual content. At the time, Einziger commented "it's ironic that this MTV scrutiny comes from an incident where someone bared their chest in public, while for the first time, our singer has his shirt on for an entire video."

"Talk Shows on Mute" was written as an examination of the effects of television on people. It was inspired by a flight where Boyd began narrating to his fellow passengers a talk show playing on the plane's television. Boyd said that after this, "I realized a time will probably come when television will watch us if we're watching it, if that hasn't already happened, figuratively or literally. It sounded like some sort of pseudo-Big Brother nightmare, so I wrote it down." The line, "Come one, Come all into 1984" does not refer to the year, where all the band members were still children, but rather George Orwell's 1949 book Nineteen Eighty-Four.

The song "Priceless" features rapping-style vocals which recall the band's earlier work from the 1990s. Boyd said that "Priceless" and a few of the other songs on the album "started as letters to myself", adding that "I wrote a couple of the songs on the record from someone close to me's point of view, stepping into their sight and speaking for them."

Early pressings of the album list track 12 "Smile Lines" as "Suite Lines" on the back cover. The Japanese pressing of the album comes with a bonus track, "Monuments & Melodies" which is also available on the Alive at Red Rocks bonus CD.

Touring and promotion
Incubus began their world tour for the album in March 2004 with shows in Japan and South Korea. On March 12, 2004, the band played their first show in the Philippines, a country where they had attracted a large following. The band played further shows in Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and Europe before beginning a tour of North America in June 2004, which would continue for the rest of the year. To further promote the album in 2004, Incubus performed on Jimmy Kimmel Live!, the Top of the Pops in the United Kingdom and the Rove Live talk show in Australia. At a June 2004 show in London, the band notably performed the song "Take Me to Your Leader" for the first time since 1998, and went on to play it eight more times that year. These 2004 performances are to date the last time a Fungus Amongus/Enjoy Incubus song has been played live.

In 2005, the band contributed the songs "Admiration", "Neither of Us Can See" and "Make a Move" to the soundtrack of the action film Stealth, with "Make a Move" being released as a single that year. The song "Aqueous Transmission" from Morning View also appeared on the film's soundtrack album.

Commercial response
A Crow Left of the Murder... debuted at number two on the US Billboard 200, selling about 332,000 copies in its first week on the chart. It has since been certified platinum by the RIAA.

Reception
The album was generally well received by critics upon release. Stuart Green of Canadian publication Exclaim! gave it a positive review in March 2004, he wrote "with the addition of soulful Roots bassist Ben Kenney and a tasty fusion of everything from Faith No More-style rap metal to the prog-noodling of Rush (most notably on 'Sick Sad Little World', the album's standout track) to the earnest songwriting of, say, the Beatles or the Dave Matthews Band, this disc should establish them as the leaders of the new rock pack... at least in artistry if not sales."

Stephen Thomas Erlewine of AllMusic awarded the album four-and-a-half out of five stars, claiming that, "at the beginning of their career, Incubus was rightly lumped in with the legions of post-Korn alt metal/rap-rock bands swarming America in the latter days of the 20th century", and that, "A Crow Left of the Murder... is far more interesting than any of their other records, or their peers." Mikael Wood of the Dallas Observer reflected in his review that, "Southern California's Incubus emerged from the rap-rock pack in 2001 when its hit single 'Drive' revealed front man Brandon Boyd to be the kind of guy who might come back to his high school nine years after he graduated to give a motivational speech and award one lucky essay-writing girl an unforgettable dance at the senior prom. Before that the band played warmed-over funk-metal and made CDs with really awful covers." He adds, "Boyd freaks his falsetto a lot, giving 'Smile Lines' and 'Beware! Criminal' a supple, sensual curvature that's anathema to most rap-rockers; there's a defanged Tori Amos/Trent Reznor pulse to 'Sick Sad Little World'; 'Pistola' is almost post-punk in its compact fury'." Joshua Klein of The Washington Post stated, "A Crow Left of the Murder shows success has gone to the band's head, but only in the best sense. Here Incubus reverts to its weirder, wilder roots without abandoning its newfound pop appeal."

Eric R. Danton of The Baltimore Sun wrote in his February 2004 review, "alternative-metal bands have tended to embody self-absorption far more than self-awareness, and we've all seen how that has turned out: It's made Fred Durst wealthy in inverse proportion to his talent. Incubus, at least, has avoided many of the petulant excesses that fuel Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park. With a few pop-savvy ballads and a hottie front man in Brandon Boyd, Incubus has even attracted an audience that encompasses more than surly teen-age boys." He added, "the alt-metal sound is mostly played out, but Incubus' determination to continue developing is clear here, and it will help to keep the band relevant in an increasingly splintered music scene."

In their March 2004 review, The Oklahoman wrote that, "its finest moments recalls the more adventurous musical explorations of their major label debut S.C.I.E.N.C.E.", noting that "Megalomaniac", "Pistola", "Priceless" and "Leech" possess a "caffeine-fueled drive." They additionally observed that, "of course, there had to be a couple of idealistic love ballads for the young women who really are only interested in singer Brandon Boyd. To fill that slot, the album's 'Southern Girl' and the piano-driven 'Here in My Room' feature a harmony at their conclusion reminiscent of something off The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds." Scott Shetler of Slant Magazine gave it four out of five stars, writing "like it or not, Incubus is the prototypical rock band for the 21st century, appealing equally to both sexes — they’re likable guys who write memorable songs and it doesn’t hurt that they’ve got a model for a lead singer." Shetler adds, "Incubus have never made any huge leaps in terms of their sound, but they’ve always managed to change it just enough to stay slightly ahead of the pack, and with Crow they’ve simply done it again."

Legacy
In 2017, Dan Weiss of Consequence of Sound had a negative view of the band's direction on A Crow Left of the Murder..., writing that it was "their most strident record to date, and by then their eclecticism was so pared down you couldn't hear much Faith No More or hip-hop or quirky distinctions." In his review for the Alive at Red Rocks CD/DVD, Alex Henderson of AllMusic claimed that "some fans of their early rap-metal/funk metal work see 2001's Morning View and 2004's A Crow Left of the Murder as a sellout." In a 2006 interview with The New Zealand Herald, Brandon Boyd reflected, "it's funny because the way it's perceived around the world is vastly different. For some people Crow was the best record we've ever done, but some people look at that record as a pause in our talent as a band."

Kerrang! ranked it as the second best Incubus album in 2020, and stated it "[was] the sound of Incubus maturing; finding ever-subtler applications for their melting pot of styles." Boyd also ranked it as his second favorite Incubus record in a 2022 Louder Sound article.

Track listing
When bought at some retailers (including Best-Buy) a bonus live EP was bundled with the CD.

Bonus DVD
 * 1) "Lollapalooza" – 9:13
 * 2) * Includes a brief interview discussing the Lollapalooza tour, then performances of "Megalomaniac" and "Pistola".
 * 3) "Bridge Benefit" – 8:41
 * 4) * Includes a brief interview discussing the Bridge School Benefit, follow by acoustic performances of "A Crow Left of the Murder" and "Talk Shows on Mute"
 * 5) While We Were Out – 7:35
 * 6) * This documentary is about the making of the album in Atlanta, Georgia, as well as some interview footage, and some footage of other things the band have gotten up to whilst they were out. It also introduces Ben Kenney, who recently joined as the bassist for the band.
 * 7) Brandon's Injury – 1:06
 * 8) * A short mock-umentary about how Brandon injured his ankle.
 * 9) Short Film – 6:31
 * 10) * Although not listed on the packaging, there is also a short film by Brendan Hearne, starring Mike Einziger.

A SACD edition has also been released, along with a Dualdisc edition as well.

Incubus

 * Brandon Boyd – vocals
 * Mike Einziger – guitar; piano on "Here In My Room", additional engineering
 * Ben Kenney – bass guitar
 * Chris Kilmore – turntables, keyboards, Mellotron, marxophone
 * José Pasillas – drums, percussion

Production

 * Brendan O'Brien – production, mixing
 * Nick DiDia – engineer
 * Billy Bowers – additional engineering
 * Bob Ludwig – mastering

title: A Crow Left of the Murder...


text:
Talk:Pope Eugene IV

Curia Link wrong
The first link to "Curia" in this article should be redirected to refer to the "Papal Curia."

Naming
I believe the Latin version of this pope's name is Eugenius, Eugene being an Anglicization. Since the popes were based in Italy (not England) and church business was conducted in Latin, I have changed the name to the Latin version. --Iacobus 00:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * D'oh! I'll do that once I learn the protocol for renaming articles. --Iacobus 00:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

So are you going to change the article on Pope John XXIII to Ioannes PP. XXIII? While you are at it, change Robert Bellarmine to Roberto Bellarmino, the article on Germany to Deutschland, the article on the Soviet Union to Союз Советских Социалистических Республик or perhaps Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik and so on. Jhobson1 (talk) 15:23, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Nepotism
The main page says that Eugene IV was never guilty of nepotism. However, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cardinal-nephews lists two nephews whom he created as cardinal-nephews, one of whom (elsewhere) was allegedly his own son.

The sanitised version on this main page should be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.149.75.207 (talk) 07:47, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

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Pinus contorta

Pinus contorta, with the common names lodgepole pine and shore pine, and also known as twisted pine, and contorta pine, is a common tree in western North America. It is common near the ocean shore and in dry montane forests to the subalpine, but is rare in lowland rain forests. Like all pines (member species of the genus Pinus), it is an evergreen conifer.

Description
Depending on subspecies, Pinus contorta grows as an evergreen shrub or tree. The shrub form is krummholz and is approximately 1 to 3 m high. The thin and narrow-crowned tree can grow 40 to 50 m high and achieve up to 2 m in diameter at chest height. The murrayana subspecies is the tallest. The crown is rounded and the top of the tree is flattened. In dense forests, the tree has a slim, conical crown. The formation of twin trees is common in some populations in British Columbia. The elastic branches stand upright or overhang and are difficult to break. The branches are covered with short shoots that are easy to remove.

The species name is contorta because of the twisted, bent pines (shore pine) found at coastal areas and the tree's twisted needles. Pinus contorta is occasionally known under several English names: black pine, scrub pine, and coast pine. P. contorta subsp. latifolia will hybridise with the closely related jack pine (P. banksiana).

The bark of lodgepole pine is thin, scaly and grayish brown. Shore pine bark is somewhat thick and corky, fissuring into a checkered pattern. Some lodgepole pines have been reported in low elevations with features closer to those of the shore pine, including the bark.

Tamarack pine can grow up to centuries old and lodgepole pines in Yellowstone Park have survived over 300 years.

Foliage
The egg-shaped growth buds are reddish-brown and between 20 and 30 mm long. They are short pointed, slightly rotated, and very resinous. Spring growth starts in beginning of April and the annual growth is completed by early July. The dark and mostly shiny needles are pointed and 4 to 8 cm long and 0.9 to 2 mm wide. The needle edge is weakly to strongly serrated. The needles are in pairs on short shoots and rotated about the shoots' longitudinal axes. In Alberta above 2000 m, 1 to 5 needles occur per short shoot. A population with a high proportion of three-needled short shoots occurs in the Yukon. Needles live an average of four to six years, with a maximum of 13 years. The foliage of lodgepole pine is yellow-green as compared to shore pine, which is dark green.

Cones
The cones of lodgepole and shore pine begin to be produced when the trees are about ten years old. The cones are 3 – long, with prickles on the scales.

Many populations of the Rocky Mountain subspecies, P. contorta subsp. latifolia, have serotinous cones. This means that the cones are closed and must be exposed to high temperatures, such as from forest fires, in order to open and release their seeds. The variation in their serotiny has been correlated with wildfires and mountain pine beetle attacks. The cones of the coastal Pacific subspecies, P. contorta subsp. contorta, are typically non-serotinous, and those of the inland Pacific subspecies, P. contorta subsp. murrayana, are completely non-serotinous.

Distribution
Pinus contorta occurs from upper, dry montane forests to the subalpine region of western North America. It can be found on the western side of the Cascades, in inland British Columbia, and on the Rocky Mountains in Alberta, except where it is too high and dry. Lodgepole pine can tolerate relatively hostile environments such as high-elevation volcanic rock in Central Oregon (e.g. Crater Lake) and thin soils on the eastern slope of the Cascades. Further south, the species can be found in higher elevations up to 3350 m above sea level, particularly in southern Colorado. It is rare in lowland rain forests. Shore pine can be found in very infertile soils in coastal regions from Southeast Alaska to Northern California.

Lodgepole and shore pine can be found intermingled (and apparently hybridized) north of Puget Sound. Less dependent on fire, tamarack pine can be found in California's upper mountains and mingled with lodgepole in Oregon. Pinus contorta can be found in the closed-cone pine forest of coastal California.

Ecology
Pinus contorta is a fire-dependent species, requiring wildfires to maintain healthy populations of diverse ages. The thin bark of the lodgepole pine minimizes its defense to fire, although the heat of fire opens the cones to release the seeds. This allows the species to regenerate and maintain its place in the forest habitat. It otherwise fares poorly in crowds as other species are more shade tolerant, although some (e.g. firs) are more susceptible to fire.

The natural fire regime for this species is primarily driven by climate. The fires occur most often after years of drought. Forests in the upper montane to subalpine region experience much moisture in the winter via snow. The density of tree stands with the species inhibit the establishment of an understory (allowing ladder fuel to form), and surface fire is rare regardless. Thus, infrequent but severe fires dominate this species.

An example of the climate that plays a huge role in the fire regime of the species is quite complex. There are three different oscillations that play a major role in droughts. These are the Pacific decadal oscillation (PDO), Atlantic multidecadal oscillation (AMO) and El Niño (ENSO). A combination of these oscillations being in effect (+) or not in effect (−) have a global effect on the water available to these forests. The combination of AMO +, ENSO − and PDO − means there is going to be a drought and likely a severe subalpine fire.

Suillus tomentosus, a fungus, produces specialized structures called tuberculate ectomycorrhizae with the roots of lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta var. latifolia). These structures have been shown to be the location of concentrations of nitrogen-fixing bacteria which contribute a significant amount of nitrogen to tree growth and allow the pines to colonize nutrient-poor sites.

Porcupines consume the inner bark of lodgepole pine.

Threats
Larger members of the species are attacked by mountain pine beetles, which it fights with pitch but can be overwhelmed. It is also affected by blue stain fungus (Grosmannia clavigera), which the mountain pine beetle carries in its mouth. Dwarf mistletoe also leeches off the species. Both the threat of pine beetles and dwarf mistletoe are curbed by wildfires, which occurred less in the 20th century due to firefighting. More recently, unthreatening lightning-sparked fires have been allowed to burn in wilderness areas in Idaho and Montana. Exceptional cold can kill some of the beetles.

A study released in 2011 concluded that Pinus contorta could experience significant reductions in distribution due to climate change by the late 21st century.

As an invasive species
Pinus contorta is considered a serious invasive species of wilding conifer in New Zealand, along with several other western North American pine species. It is listed on the National Pest Plant Accord and is prohibited from sale, commercial propagation, and distribution.

Subspecies
There are four subspecies of Pinus contorta, and one of them is sometimes considered to have two varieties. The subspecies are sometimes treated at the rank of variety.

Construction
The common name "lodgepole pine" comes from the custom of Native Americans using the tall, straight trees to construct lodges (tepees) in the Rocky Mountain area. Lodgepole pine was used by European settlers to build log cabins. Logs are still used in rural areas as posts, fences, lumber, and firewood. Shore pine pitch has historically been used as glue.

Tree plantations of Pinus contorta have been planted extensively in Norway, Sweden, Ireland and the UK for forestry, such as timber uses. In Iceland it is used for reforestation and afforestation purposes. It is also commonly used for pressure-treated lumber throughout North America.

Food
Native Americans consumed the inner bark of lodgepole pine to prevent starvation for themselves and their horses. The lodgepole pine cambium layer's edibility is dependent on thickness, consistency, and sweetness.

Medicinal
The indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest and of California used different parts of the plant internally and externally as a traditional medicine for various ailments. The gum of shore pine was used medicinally as well as for chewing.

Cultivation
Pinus contorta is cultivated as an ornamental tree by the horticulture industry. Plant nurseries grow Pinus contorta subsp. contorta and Pinus contorta subsp. murrayana for use in traditional and wildlife gardens, and as smaller selections of the native plant for natural landscaping. The shore pine's smaller varieties and cultivars are also used in container gardening, including as large bonsai specimens.

Cultivars of this species include:
 * "Chief Joseph", a dwarf variety of Pinus contorta var. latifolia grown for its yellow winter needles
 * "Spaan's Dwarf", a dwarf variety of Pinus contorta var. contorta that grows wider than it grows tall

The cultivar "Chief Joseph" has gained the Royal Horticultural Society's Award of Garden Merit.

Emblem
Lodgepole pine is the provincial tree of Alberta, Canada.

title: Pinus contorta


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Manistee National Forest

The Manistee National Forest is a national forest located in the Lower Peninsula of Michigan. It has a total area of 540187 acre. It was established in 1938, and combined with the Huron National Forest in 1945 for administrative purposes, creating the Huron-Manistee National Forests. However, they are two separate forest units, as they are not connected. The area is popular for hiking, fishing, camping, boating, snowmobiling, cross-country skiing and hunting. The North Country Trail passes through it, and connects with the 11-mile Manistee River Trail to form a 23-mile loop. The highest point in the lower peninsula, Briar Hill (1,706 ft), is located here. The Manistee National Forest is not one continuous mass, but is a "mosaic" broken by private property and towns. The headquarters for the forest is in Cadillac, Michigan.

History

Unique among National Forests in its creation, the Manistee National Forest was created from tax-forfeited lands and purchases after the logging era had ended. The large areas of cutover timber were not very suitable for farming, and much of the burned over forest land had still not yet regenerated to trees by the 1930s.

Around the 1920s when reforestation and conservation was taking off in Michigan, there was a movement across the United States for the conservation of the remaining forests and wildlife, including on the federal level under the leadership of President Theodore Roosevelt. In 1938, President Franklin D. Roosevelt established the Manistee National Forest. One of his primary goals was to replant the cutover areas, which was done by his recently created Civilian Conservation Corps, which employed young men during the Great Depression and was responsible for replanting most of Michigan's barren lands.

Geography
The terrain is mostly forest underlain by sedimentary rocks, covered by a mantle of glacial drift as much as 1,000 feet thick. Glacial moraines, outwash plains, deltas, lacustrine deposits, and old shorelines are common. Soils originating from these landscapes are predominately sand. Aquifers within glacial deposits are common and feed thousands of miles of cold water streams at a relatively constant rate throughout the year. The forest consists of a mix of hardwoods and pines, with red pine (pinus resinosa) as the most dominant species. A common feature of all Michigan National Forests are the large straight rows of planted red pines, which were planted by the Civilian Conservation Corps in the 1930s. Today many are over 75 ft tall and constitute a significant source of revenue from timber sales. The largest contiguous red pine plantation in North America is in the Manistee National Forest, called the Kellog Plantation.

In descending order of land area the Manistee National Forest lies in parts of Lake, Newaygo, Wexford, Manistee, Mason, Oceana, Muskegon, Mecosta, and Montcalm counties. There are local ranger district offices located in Baldwin and Manistee.

The Lumberjack 100, a 100-mile ultra-endurance mountain bike race is held annually within its bounds.

Dispersed camping is free on National Forest lands, as long as you follow the guidelines found on the USFS website. However, some rustic campgrounds do require a reservation or camping fee. A wood permit is required to cut firewood. Wood permits are valid for the Manistee National Forest only, and exclude the Huron National Forest.

Features
The Nordhouse Dunes Wilderness is a unique feature of the Manistee National Forest. This relatively small area of 3450 acre, situated on the east shore of Lake Michigan is one of the few wilderness areas in the U.S. with an extensive lake shore dunes ecosystem. Most of the dunes are 3500 to 4000 years old and some stand about 140 ft higher than the lake. The Nordhouse Dunes are interspersed with woody vegetation such as juniper, jack pine and hemlock. There are many small water holes and marshes dotting the landscape and dune grass covers many of the dunes. The beach is wide and sandy.

Briar Hill is the second highest point in the Lower Peninsula of Michigan, at 1,706 ft. It is of glacial origin and consists of mostly second growth hardwoods. There are no marked trails to the summit, which provides limited views of the surrounding area. The footings of the old steel firetower still remain, as well as a USGS survey marker, in which it misspells the hill as "Brier Hill".

Caberfae Peaks Ski & Golf Resort is located in the Manistee National Forest, in the Caberfae Hills region that receives large amounts of lake-effect snow. The official opening was in January 1938, making it one of the oldest ski resorts in the US.

Several rivers flow through its boundaries, most notably the Manistee, Pere-Marquette, Pine, Muskegon, and the Little Manistee. These were important for transporting logs to the mills during the lumber boom, and now serve as popular destinations for canoeing, fishing, hunting, and hiking.

Among the many areas to hike is a 23-mile loop trail, which is formed with the Manistee River Trail and the North Country Scenic Trail. This loop can be accessed from the Red Bridge and Seaton Creek accesses (Manistee River Trail) and the Marilla and Upper River Road Trailheads (North Country Scenic Trail). Many backpackers plan 2–3 days to hike the complete loop, setting up backcountry campsites overnight.

title: Manistee National Forest


text:
HMCS Haida

HMCS Haida is a Tribal-class destroyer that served in the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) from 1943 to 1963, participating in World War II and the Korean War. She was named after the Haida people.

The only surviving Tribal-class destroyer out of 27 vessels constructed for the RCN, the Royal Navy, and the Royal Australian Navy between 1937 and 1945, Haida sank more enemy surface tonnage than any other Canadian warship and as such is commonly referred to as the "Fightingest Ship in the Royal Canadian Navy".

Designated a national historic site of Canada in 1984, she now serves as a museum ship berthed next to HMCS Star, an active Royal Canadian Naval Reserve Division, in Hamilton, Ontario. In 2018, Haida was designated the ceremonial flagship of the RCN.

Design and description
The Tribals were designed to fight heavily armed destroyers of other navies, such as the Japanese Fubuki-class destroyer. Canada chose the design based on its armament, with the size and power of the Tribal class allowing them to act more like small cruisers than as fleet destroyers. Haida was among the first batch of Tribal-class destroyers ordered by the RCN in 1940–1941. They were ordered with modified ventilation and heating systems for North Atlantic winter service. Haida's design was modified after deficiencies were noted in the lead ship of the Canadian Tribals, HMCS Iroquois (G89).

Haida, as one of the British-built Tribal-class destroyers, was 335 ft long between perpendiculars and 377 ft long overall with a beam of 36 ft and a draught of 13 ft. As built, the destroyer displaced 1927 LT standard and 2745 LT at deep load. Haida had a complement of 14 officers and 245 ratings.

The destroyer was propelled by two shafts driven by two Parsons geared turbines powered by steam created by three Admiralty-type three-drum boilers. This created 44000 shp and gave the ship a maximum speed of 36.5 kn. The destroyers could carry 505 - 516 LT of fuel oil.

As built, Haida was fitted with six quick-firing 4.7 in Mk XII guns placed in three twin turrets, designated 'A', 'B' and 'Y' from bow to stern. The turrets were placed on 40° mountings with open-backed shields. The ship also had one twin turret of QF 4 in Mk XVI guns in the 'X' position. For secondary anti-aircraft armament, the destroyer was equipped with four single-mounted 2-pounder "pom-pom" guns. The vessel was also fitted with four 21 in torpedo tubes for Mk IX torpedoes.

Construction and career
Haida's keel was laid down by Vickers-Armstrongs, Ltd. at their shipyard in Newcastle-upon-Tyne on 29 September 1941 with the yard number 41. The destroyer was launched on 25 August 1942 and commissioned into RCN service on 30 August 1943. She underwent workups under her first commanding officer, H.G. DeWolf before reporting to the British Home Fleet at Scapa Flow in October 1943.

After commissioning Haida was assigned to the Royal Navy's Home Fleet. On 15 November the convoy JW 54A sailed from Loch Ewe. Haida was among the destroyers that joined the escort from 18 to 24 November 1943. On 28 November Haida was among the destroyer escort for the Russian convoy RA 54B, protecting it until it reached Loch Ewe on 9 December without loss. The convoy JW 55B sailed from Loch Ewe for Russia on 20 December. Haida was a member of its ocean escort. The GERMAN BATTLESHIP Scharnhorst was deployed to intercept the convoy. While the cruisers escorting the convoy kept the German vessel at bay, Haida and the other escorting destroyers shepherded the convoy away from danger until the German battleship was sunk by a British force. On 23 December the convoy was attacked by Junkers Ju 88 bombers, but escaped unscathed. Haida joined the escort of RA 55B on the return journey to the UK which sailed from Kola Inlet on 31 December and arrived on 8 January 1944.

Operations along the French coast
On 10 January 1944, she was reassigned to the 10th Destroyer Flotilla at Plymouth and took part in the Operation Tunnel and Operation Hostile sweeps in the Bay of Biscay and along the French coast of the English Channel. The 10th Flotilla, with the cruisers HMS Black Prince (81) and HMS Bellona (63), formed Force 26. By April, Haida had sailed on nineteen of the Operation Tunnel/Hostile missions.

During the night of 25/26 April, Haida, with Black Prince and the destroyers HMS Ashanti (F51), HMCS Athabaskan (G07), and HMCS Huron (G24) engaged the German 4th Torpedo Boat Flotilla comprising the German Elbing-class torpedo boats T29, T24 and T27. Despite the German designation as 'torpedo boat', the Elbings were essentially on a par with mid-sized Allied destroyers, having just slightly smaller armament. T27 was hit early and retired to Morlaix, Haida sank T29, and T24 was damaged before making St. Malo.

On the night of 28/29 April T24 and T27 attempted to move from St. Malo to Brest and encountered the destroyers Athabaskan and Haida off St. Brieux, which were performing a covering sweep as part of Operation Hostile. Athabaskan was torpedoed and sunk in the engagement. T24 is credited with the sinking the ship. Haida ran T27 aground and set the vessel afire with shelling, to be later destroyed by MTB 673. Of the Athabaskan's crew 128 were lost, 44 survivors were recovered by Haida, and 83 survivors became prisoners of war of the Germans in France.

Haida continued the Operation Hostile sorties in company of sister ship Huron during the weeks leading up to Operation Overlord. The 10th Destroyer Flotilla were part of the covering force for surface attacks at the western entrance of the English Channel during the invasion of Normandy. On 8–9 June, Haida was part of Task Force 26 which engaged the German 8th Destroyer Flotilla, comprising Z32, Z24, GERMAN DESTROYER ZH1 and T24 northwest of the Île de Bas. Haida and Huron combined to sink Z32 in the Battle of Ushant. Following the fall of Cherbourg to the Allies, the German E-boats were transferred to Le Havre, freeing up the 10th Flotilla. The flotilla was then given the dual role of covering Allied motor torpedo boat flotillas, and search and sink missions against German shipping along the French coast.

On 24 June, while on patrol in the English Channel off Land's End, investigated a 311 Squadron's Liberator bomber dropping depth charges on a target. Haida and the British destroyer HMS Eskimo (F75) began their own depth charge attacks after being informed that a submarine had been spotted. After several attacks, the submarine surfaced and attempted to run. Haida and Eskimo fired all their guns and sank GS U-971;Haida rescued six survivors. On 14/15 July 1944, Haida and ORP Błyskawica intercepted a group of German ships in the Île de Groix area near Lorient. The battle saw two submarine chasers, UJ 1420 and UJ 1421, destroyed, one German merchant ship sunk, and two others set afire. On 5–6 August, Haida was part of a force engaged in an Operation Kinetic sweep. The force attacked a German convoy north of the Île de Yeu and sank the minesweepers M 263 and M 486, the patrol boat V 414 and the coastal launch Otto. During the battle a shell exploded in one of Haida's turrets and started a fire, killing two and injuring eight, knocking the turret out of action. Staying in the line of battle, the destroyers were engaged by shore batteries when they attempted to take on a second convoy and were forced to withdraw without doing much damage to the German merchant vessels.

Refit and northern operations
Haida departed Western Europe on 22 September for Halifax, Nova Scotia, arriving on 29 September. The destroyer returned to Scapa Flow in mid-January 1945 after refitting to receive new radar. On 19 March Haida escorted aircraft carriers in minelaying operations off Granesund, Norway and assisted in attacks on shipping off Trondheim from 24 to 28 March. On 7 April, Haida escorted seven anti-submarine warfare vessels from Greenock, Scotland destined for Soviet use at Vaenga, on the Kola Inlet. The destroyer was among the escort for convoy JW 66 that set out from the River Clyde on 16 April. Haida experienced one of the last RCN engagements of the Second World War when she escorted convoy RA 66 from Vaenga from 29 April to 2 May. The convoy was attacked in transit, and Haida and Huron were attacked by torpedoes fired by U-boats, which narrowly missed. In the skirmish, two German U-boats and the British frigate HMS Goodall (K479) were sunk, and the convoy escaped in a snowstorm. Haida and Huron returned to Scapa Flow on 6 May and were assigned to relief operations at Trondheimsfjord, Norway on 17 May. From 29 to 31 May, Haida, Huron, the cruiser HMS Berwick (65) and the 5th Escort Group were sent to Trondheim to take over custody of surrendered U-boats.

Haida, Huron and Iroquois, left for Halifax on 4 June to refit as part of Canada's contribution to Operation Downfall. They arrived on 10 June and Haida started a tropicalization refit, that was suspended after the surrender of Japan later that summer. Haida was paid off on 20 March 1946.

Cold War operations
Haida was in inactive reserve for approximately one year but was prepared for reactivation in 1947 and underwent a refit for updated armament and sensors. This involved replacing the main armament, with the 4.7-inch guns removed and two twin Mk XVI 4-inch gun mounts installed forward and a twin 3 in/50 calibre gun mount installed aft. The ship was given a Mk 63 fire control director for its guns. One turret was completely removed and replaced by two Squid anti-submarine mortars placed on the quarterdeck. A short aluminum mast was installed and the funnels were fitted with caps.

Haida was equipped with Type 275, SPS-10, SPS-6, Type 293 and 262 radars and Type 140 and 174 sonars. While in refit, fire gutted the wheelhouse and boiler tubes burst later during speed trials. She returned to the fleet, still carrying the pennant number G63, in May 1947.

Haida and her sister ship HMCS Nootka (R96) participated in exercises between the RCN's Atlantic Fleet and the United States Navy and Royal Navy over the next several years and were the first RCN ships to penetrate Hudson Bay in Fall 1948. Haida was involved in assisting during the grounding of the aircraft carrier HMCS Magnificent (CVL 21) off Port Mouton, Nova Scotia on 4 June 1949. In November 1949, Haida rescued the 18 members of the crew of a United States Air Force B-29 bomber that crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. That December, Haida was downgraded to a depot and accommodation ship in Halifax.

When the Korean War started on 25 June 1950, Haida was once again activated for war duty. She was converted to a destroyer escort and began refit in July 1950, with various new armaments, sensors and communications systems. She was recommissioned on 15 March 1952 and carried the pennant DDE 215. She departed Halifax on 27 September for Sasebo, Japan, arriving there on 6 November after passing through the Panama Canal.

Haida relieved Nootka on 18 November off the west coast of Korea, and had an uneventful patrol, performing aircraft carrier screening and inshore patrol missions, returning to Sasebo to replenish on 29 November. She patrolled off the east coast of Korea beginning on 4 December and took part with the destroyer escort USS Moore (DE-240) in shelling of a railway yard in Songjin, a coastal battery, and North Korean troops. On 18–19 December, Haida failed to join the exclusive "Trainbusters Club" when an enemy train she attacked managed to hide in a nearby tunnel. Haida returned to patrol on 3 January 1953, escorting aircraft carriers and bombarding the coast. On 29 January, Haida entered the "Trainbusters Club", destroying a train north of Riwon. The destroyer eliminated a second train on 26 May, and detonated a drifting anti-ship mine on her return to Paengyang-do. She departed Sasebo on 12 June, heading west through the Suez Canal and arrived in Halifax on 22 July 1953.

Haida departed Halifax for a second Korean tour on 14 December 1953, passing through the Panama Canal and arriving in theatre on 5 February 1954. North Korea and China were not respecting the cease fire; infractions necessitated a naval presence around South Korea. The destroyer departed the Korean theatre on 12 September 1954 and headed for Halifax via the Suez Canal once again, arriving on 1 November.

Following the Korean operations, Haida embarked on Cold War anti-submarine warfare duties with other NATO units in the North Atlantic and West Indies. In May 1956, Haida, accompanied by Iroquois and Huron made port visits to cities and towns along the Saint Lawrence River.

Haida's aging hull and infrastructure was becoming troublesome, and in January 1958 she went into refit for hull repairs and protection for electronic equipment. Further refits in 1959 corrected various problems, and she sailed for the West Indies in January 1960; however, further equipment failures culminating in the failure of her steering gear on 3 April forced her to return to Halifax. A hull survey in May found extensive corrosion and cracking, forcing her into drydock for the remainder of the year. She undertook further repairs in June and July 1961 after further cracking was found during operations in heavy seas that March. More cracks were detected in March 1962, which forced a refit through February 1963.

Preservation
With the writing on the wall, Haida undertook her last assignment, a summer tour of the Great Lakes. She departed Halifax on 25 April 1963 with a mobile television studio on board. She undertook various public tours and weapons training during the tour; one of the individuals to tour her was a former RCN rating named Neil Bruce. Bruce foresaw that she was destined for scrapping and formed HAIDA Inc. with four others as a means of attempting to acquire her for preservation. On 30 April 1963, the ship was paid off for the last time.

Haida returned to Halifax and was placed in Category C reserve at the navy base HMCS Protector in Sydney. Crown Assets announced Haida would be scrapped in 1964 as part of cutbacks to the RCN. HAIDA Inc. placed a bid of $20,000 and won possession on the grounds of restoration. After preparing the ship, the RCN towed the vessel to Marine Industries Limited shipyard at Sorel, Quebec where she became civilian property.

The Naval Reserve Division HMCS York provided a skeleton crew for Haida as she was towed to Toronto by two tugboats. She arrived on 25 August 1964 with guest of honour, retired Vice-Admiral Harry DeWolf, who was the destroyer's first commanding officer. Haida was restored and reacquired the pennant G63 while docked at the foot of York Street.

She opened as an attraction in August 1965 at the pier on York Street. Initially the city of Toronto had planned to build a "Serviceman's Memorial Park" near the Princes' Gates at nearby Exhibition Place to link with the Haida preservation efforts. The organization HAIDA Inc. ran into financial difficulties during the late 1960s and title to the ship was transferred to the provincial government for $1. In 1970, Haida was moved to Ontario Place at the west end of the Toronto waterfront, where it was turned into an attraction until 2002. The guns on the vessel were fired whenever the Toronto Symphony played Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at the nearby Forum, the outdoor in-the-round concert stage at Ontario Place. The vessel was also used as a Royal Canadian Sea Cadets training facility.

HMCS Haida National Historic Site
In 2002, at the urging of Hamilton, Ontario MP Sheila Copps, Parks Canada purchased Haida from the provincial government and towed her (with great difficulty) from her Ontario Place dock to a shipyard at Port Weller for a $5 million refit to her hull. She was taken to a new home on the Hamilton waterfront and arrived to an 11-gun salute from 31 Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps Lion and her 12-pounder naval field gun on 30 August 2003, the 60th anniversary of her commissioning into the RCN. The destroyer is now a National Historic Site and is a museum ship on the Hamilton waterfront in front of Hamilton's Naval Reserve Division, HMCS Star.

In July 2006 Haida was "twinned" with the Polish destroyer Błyskawica in a ceremony in Gdynia, Poland. Both ships served in the 10th Destroyer Flotilla during the Second World War. The ceremony was attended by former crew members of both ships and the general public. The ship was visited in 2009 by Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, and his wife, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, and, on June 29, 2010, at Government House in Nova Scotia, Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, presented to representatives of HMCS Haida the World Ship Trust Certificate. In September 2016, the ship was towed to Heddle Marine to undergo repairs and upgrades. The repairs took until December 2016 to complete. In February 2018, Haida was designated the ceremonial flagship of the Canadian Navy, now marked by the hoisting of a Haida tribal flag.

Affiliations and organizations
There is also a Sea Cadet Corps named after the ship, located in Streetsville, Mississauga. 186 Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps Haida, was established on 9 January 1963. The museum is affiliated with the Canadian Museums Association, Canadian Heritage Information Network, Organization of Military Museums of Canada and the Virtual Museum of Canada.

title: HMCS Haida