text:
Talk:Flag of North Korea

Based on the Korean Wikipedia, the Korean (Hangul) name for this flag is 인공기. Can someone determine what its Hanja equivalent and its literal translation are? --Metric1031 23:45, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's an abbreviation for 인민공화국기 (人民共和國旗), or, Flag of the People's Republic. Eunsung (talk) 23:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Red Star of Communism
Should the Red Star of Communism be listed as being "famous" or simply "well-known"?

Ingonggi
The short form of the name of the NK flag is "인공기". This should be included somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eunsung (talk • contribs) 23:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Old Flag
"North Korea had originally adopted a "taegeukgi" following independence from Japan with a taoist yin-yang symbol similar to that in the South Korean flag but later revised its flag to more closely reflect that of the USSR."

Does anyone have an image of this flag? I haven't been able to find it anywhere, and am wondering if it exists at all. - MK (t/c) 05:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Numbers on the Flags
What is the meaning of the number "4.25" on the Military flags? --Hibernian (talk) 02:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

The "4.25" refers to the date of wich the KPA was formed, the 25th of April. 'A non-registered user'

Vertical Flag
It should be noted that the vertical variant of the North Korean flag has the Red Star within the Circle facing upright —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.178.148 (talk) 11:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I wondered about this too. The article does not make it clear ('This is the proper vertical display', presumably of the same flag - whereas we're dealing here with two flags that do not match). In any case, in the horizontal version the line between the two upper side points of the star is horizontal and parallel to the two blue and white stripes, whereas in the vertical version it is not. The upper point, which is perpendicular to the blue and white stripes in the horizontal version, no longer is in the vertical version. Is there any precedent for a different-looking vertical version of a national flag, and does the DPRK constitution make provision for two versions? Or is this simply an error? Or poor design? I see that something similar seems to have happened with the Vietnamese flag, which also includes a five-pointed star - so perhaps having two different versions is standard procedure.213.127.210.95 (talk) 16:43, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Korean Friendship Association
There was a reference to an "official" website of the DPRK in the Symbolism section, I have amended this to Korean Friendship Association as the citation link points to the website of the KFA (korea-dpr.com) which is not an official website of the DPRK, despite what it says! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.172.150 (talk) 08:43, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Standard of the Supreme Commander should be redesigned
File:Standard of the Supreme Commander of the Korean People's Army -vector21.svg seems not so perfect. See: File:Propaganda in Pyongyang 01.JPG. --Great Brightstar (talk) 16:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

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RGB colours
Where do the codes #024fa2ff and #ed1c27ff come from? Translating the raw RGB values to hexadecimal would give this:

J I P | Talk 13:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I see this has already been fixed. J I P  | Talk 16:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Is the word "Colonization" really accurate?
in the list of flags section, the flag of the Soviet Civil Administration has a link to the specified page with the text "The flag of the Soviet Union used during the Soviet colonization of the northern part of Korea from October 1945 to September 1948". Considering both the US and the USSR propped up different governments in their own regions, I think the word "Colonization" here is neither a neutral POV (especially since the Flag of South Korea page has a similar instance of the US flag being used for the USAMGIK, but that text just reads "The flag of the United States used during the American military occupation of the southern part of Korea from 1945–1948") nor accurate to most definitions of colonization. Shinydewott (talk) 23:30, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Pre and post 1992
There are pictures of flag versions “(1948–1992)” and “(1992–present)”. These pictures seem very similar. Please could the text describe the change. JDAWiseman (talk) 17:36, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flag of North Korea


text:
Smoky quartz

Smoky quartz is a brownish grey, translucent variety of quartz that ranges in clarity from almost complete transparency to an almost-opaque brownish-gray or black crystals. The color of smoky quartz is produced when natural radiation, emitted from the surrounding rock, activates color centers around aluminum impurities within the crystalline quartz.

Varieties
Morion is a very dark brown to black opaque variety. Morion is the German, Danish, Spanish and Polish synonym for smoky quartz. The name is from a misreading of mormorion in Pliny the Elder.

Cairngorm is a variety of smoky quartz found in the Cairngorm Mountains of Scotland. It usually has a smoky yellow-brown colour, though some specimens are greyish-brown. It is used in Scottish jewellery and as a decoration on kilt pins and the handles of sgianan-dubha (anglicised: sgian-dubhs or skean dhu). The largest known cairngorm crystal is a 23.6 kg specimen kept at Braemar Castle.

Uses
Smoky quartz is common and was not historically important, but in recent times it has become a popular gemstone, especially for jewelry.

Sunglasses, in the form of flat panes of smoky quartz, were used in China in the 12th century.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Smoky quartz


text:
Talk:Flag of South Korea

Taegeukgi
I'd consider arguing that Taegeukgi, currently a redirect to this page, should be made a separate page that discusses historical uses of the flag. The flag was used extensively by the Korean diaspora before 1945 (including by left-leaning groups), and even in the northern Korea occupation zone from 1946 to 1948. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 22:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, but I see both Japanese and Korean Wikipedia articles has even more details for this, it would be nice if someone who can read them would translate some of contents into English. ja:大韓民国の国旗 ko:대한민국의 국기 -- Great Brightstar (talk) 15:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flag of South Korea


text:
National Electoral Council (Venezuela)

The National Electoral Council (Consejo Nacional Electoral, CNE) is one of the five branches of government of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela that was designed to be independent. It is the institution that has the responsibility of overseeing and guaranteeing the transparency of all elections and referendums in Venezuela at the local, regional, and national levels. The creation of the CNE was ratified in Venezuela's 1999 constitutional referendum. Following the election of Nicolás Maduro – Hugo Chávez's handpicked successor – into the presidency, the CNE has been described as being pro-Maduro.

History
The CNE was preceded by the Supreme Electoral Council (CSE), which was established under an electoral law on September 11, 1936. This entity was replaced by the CNE in 1997 with the passage of a new Organic Law of Suffrage and Participation.

Organization
The National Electoral Council (CNE) is composed of five persons; three of them nominated by civil society, one by the faculties of law and political science at national universities, and one by the Citizen Power. The three members nominated by civil society shall have six alternates in ordinal sequence, and each appointed by the universities and the Citizen Power has two alternates, respectively. Members of the National Electoral Council last seven years in office and be elected separately: the three nominated by civil society at the beginning of each period of the National Assembly, and the other two in the middle of it. Members of the National Electoral Council shall be appointed by the National Assembly with the vote of two thirds of its members. Members of the National Electoral Council will designate from among its members its president, in accordance with the law. (Article 296 Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela).

The CNE officials are: Tibisay Lucena (CNE President, President of the National Electoral Commission), Sandra Oblitas Ruzza (Vice President, President of the Civil and Electoral Registry Commission), Vicente José Gregorio Díaz Silva (President of the Political Participation and Finance Commission), Socorro Elizabeth Hernández de Hernández (Member of the National Electoral Commission) and Tania D' Amelio Cardiet (Member of the Civil and Electoral Registry Commission). The CNE also has a general secretary, Xavier Antonio Moreno Reyes, and a juridical consultant, Roberto Ignacio Mirabal Acosta.

Analysis
The electoral system of Venezuela is controversial. The Supreme Tribunal of Justice, with the majority supporting Chávez, elected officials to the supposedly non-partisan National Electoral Council of Venezuela (CNE) despite the 1999 Constitution stating for the National Assembly of Venezuela to perform the task. That resulted with the CNE board having a majority consisting of Chavistas or those that supported Chávez. Since then, the Venezuelan government controlled by the PSUV ruling party has manipulated elections, holding control of the CNE, the media and through government spending.

According to the United States Department of State, there is "widespread pre- and post-election fraud, including electoral irregularities, government interference, and manipulation of voters" and "opposition political parties [have] operated in a restrictive atmosphere characterized by intimidation, the threat of prosecution or administrative sanction on questionable charges, and restricted media access". International observers have had difficulties monitoring the elections, though the Bolivarian government accepts the praise of their elections from UNASUR allies.

The Venezuelan electoral system has been questioned on numerous occasions. In 2005, it was alleged that the Supreme Tribunal of Justice, with a pro-Chávez majority, appointed officials to the Venezuelan National Electoral Council despite the 1999 Constitution stipulating that this task was to be performed by the National Assembly. As a result, the CNE's board of directors was composed predominantly of individuals aligned with Chavismo. Since then, the Venezuelan government, controlled by the ruling PSUV, has manipulated elections by maintaining control over the CNE, utilizing media outlets, and leveraging government spending. Meanwhile, according to the United States Department of State, there is "widespread pre- and post-election fraud, including electoral irregularities, government interference, and voter manipulation," and "opposition political parties operate in a restrictive atmosphere characterized by intimidation, threats of prosecution or administrative sanctions on questionable charges, and restricted media access." International observers have had difficulties monitoring the elections.

On June 12, 2020, the Supreme Tribunal of Justice appointed CNE rectors after the controversial ruling of legislative omission by the opposition-majority Parliament, which, according to the Constitution of Venezuela, is responsible for selecting the electoral body directors. This was agreed upon between Nicolás Maduro's government and the interim government of Juan Guaidó. The TSJ's decision has been criticized by the opposition and international observers, as it violates the separation of powers and undermines democracy in the country. Additionally, it adds to a series of actions taken by Maduro's government seen as attempts to consolidate its control over the Venezuelan state apparatus and suppress the opposition.

While the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela authorizes the Supreme Tribunal of Justice to appoint members of the Electoral Body when the National Assembly fails to reach a minimum percentage of deputies, beyond the composition of the electoral body, the organization of the electoral act and the formation of polling stations ensure the invulnerability of the vote as they are composed of randomly selected community members, witnesses, and political party representatives. The electoral act is entirely electronic, consisting of the following steps:

As observed, both voters and participating political organizations can verify the voter's intention multiple times during the electoral act, making the electoral results difficult to tamper with.
 * 1) The voter enables the vote with their fingerprint, ensuring one voter, one vote.
 * 2) The voter makes their selection on the machine's touchscreen.
 * 3) The voting machine prints a receipt, which the voter verifies and deposits in the ballot box.
 * 4) At the close of the electoral act, results are totaled, transmitted by each machine, and the corresponding minutes are printed.
 * 5) 90% of the ballot boxes are audited in the presence of the community.
 * 6) Copies of the minutes are given to the representatives of the political parties present, who transmit them to their own computing centers.

Supreme Tribunal of Justice Intervention in 2020
On June 5, 2020, the Supreme Tribunal of Justice of Venezuela (TSJ) declared the constitutional omission of the National Assembly of Venezuela and empowered itself to appoint the rectors of the National Electoral Council. On June 11, 2020, the IV legislature of the National Assembly of Venezuela did not recognize the TSJ's decision and decided to continue the process of nominating candidates for CNE rectors, which was halted during the months of the coronavirus pandemic.

Despite the lack of precedent or legal basis in the Venezuelan Constitution for TSJ intervention, on June 13, 2020, it appointed the new electoral directors based on the ruling declaring the legislative omission.

Smartmatic and the Constituent Election
Smartmatic, the company responsible for providing the electronic voting system in Venezuela, publicly denounced "data manipulation" during the elections for the Constituent Assembly. This denunciation was made at a press conference in London by the company's CEO, Antonio Mugica, who pointed out a discrepancy of at least one million votes between the official figures and those recorded by their system in August 2017. The National Electoral Council (CNE) of Venezuela, in turn, rejected these accusations, defending the official participation figure of 41.53%, equivalent to 8 million voters. CNE President Tibisay Lucena described Mugica's statements as "irresponsible" and "baseless".

It is relevant to note that Smartmatic has been the provider of voting technology in Venezuela since 2004. However, the firm emphasized that, unlike previous elections, this time (2017), there were no opposition auditors present, who are considered essential as process witnesses. The absence of these auditors was due to the opposition's decision not to participate in these elections. Given the situation, several countries announced that they would not recognize the election results. The Venezuelan opposition had previously estimated a participation rate of 12.4% of the electoral roll, translating to about 2.4 million voters.

After Smartmatic's denunciation, opposition leader Julio Borges stated that the company's declarations confirmed the opposition's previous allegations and described the situation as a "global earthquake." On the other hand, Antonio Mugica asserted that Smartmatic had irrefutable evidence of the manipulation of participation data. Despite Smartmatic's significant contributions to various elections in Venezuela and other countries, the company has not been free from controversy. In the past, it was accused of having ties with the late Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. However, with its international growth, the firm appears to have prioritized its credibility and reputation over any previous relationship with the Venezuelan government.

ExClé C.A
The company ExClé C.A, a subsidiary of the Argentine company Ex-Clé S.A, was contracted after Smartmatic's withdrawal by Dr. Rafael Simón Jiménez, who was a CNE rector, to acquire voting machines in 2020. ExClé C.A was sanctioned by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the U.S. Department of State on December 18, 2020, after the 2020 Venezuelan parliamentary election.

Parliamentary Elections in Venezuela
On Sunday, December 6, Venezuela will hold its parliamentary elections. These elections, called by the Nicolás Maduro government and widely boycotted by the opposition, have raised concerns and controversy over their legitimacy. Maduro, who controls the country's judicial system and electoral bodies, is determined to reclaim the National Assembly in 2021. If successful, this would further consolidate his government's power and weaken the opposition, led by Juan Guaidó. Guaidó, recognized by many as Venezuela's interim president, would see his term as a deputy officially end on January 4, 2021.

Several recent events have highlighted concerns about the upcoming electoral process's legitimacy. For instance, a new National Electoral Council was elected without National Assembly approval. Additionally, there have been judicial interventions in political parties and an illegal increase in the number of parliamentarians. The outcome of these elections and how they are perceived internationally could have significant implications for Venezuelan politics and international relations in the coming years. Some countries, like Brazil and members of the Lima Group, have already indicated that they will not recognize the results if deemed fraudulent. On the other hand, the position of Guaidó and his international recognition could also be affected depending on the outcome and perception of these elections.

title: National Electoral Council (Venezuela)


text:
Talk:Foreign relations of South Korea

Tags
I've added a few tags, tone, outdated and Unreferenced. The article's overall tone, while certainly professional and well presented, reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia. The majority of the data is from June 1990, and while it is absolutely wonderful that we were able to get it from a public domain resource, it's outdated. As for the references tag, that's because the data that is more up to date isn't referenced. --85.5.222.103 (talk) 19:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

My two cents
I'd say that this is a high-importance, start-class (maybe B-class) article. Ecthelion83 (talk) 13:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

NPOV
This article seems incredibly pro-South Korea, in the sense that it outlines every minor success of South Korea while not outlining any difficulties or problems South Korea has with other nations other than suggesting that these other nations have impeded South Korea's efforts. This seems to be a common problem with my South Korea related articles. Smeggysmeg (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

UK entry needed under foreign relations
The UK was either the very first or second country in the world to recognise South Korea and subsequently needs an entry.Twobells (talk) 11:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

http://ukinrok.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/working-with-korea/bilateral-relations/

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File nominated for deletion on commons
The file c:File:Emblem of the Government of the Republic of Korea.svg used in this article has been nominated for deletion on Commons Reason: I think time has come to finish the long-forgotten (or ignored) question: Is free? I doubt its freeness, based on the fact that we do not have definite answer for Template talk:KOGL. To save your click...   We, as of 2018, do not have a final answer for this. And this means, we have to delete these images, including some VIs and FPs. Deletion request: link Message automatically deposited by a robot - -Harideepan (talk) 07:50, 23 March 2018 (UTC).

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2020
Delete "In 2018, the legal foundation of the friendly and cooperative relationship developed between two countries since 1965 had overthrown. The legal foundation is "Agreement on the Settlement of Problems concerning Property and Claims and on Economic Co-operation between Japan and the Republic of Korea". Under this severe situation surrounding the relationship caused by the South Korea side, the government of Japan will be taking necessary measures against South Korea.[24]" This appears to rely heavily on one source from a non-neutral viewpoint. This is indicated by the language used, such as 'overthrown'. NettingFish15019 (talk) 15:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:14, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Foreign relations of South Korea


text:
Talk:Gabo Reform

References and expansion of article
Expanded the article from its stub status and added according references. However, I could not find references for the following that had been in the previous edit:

''King Gojong ordered the repeal of the Gabo Reforms. Russia quickly took the opportunity to interfere actively in domestic Korean politics, leading to the contraction of the pro-Japanese faction's influence. These years also marked the beginning of the economic exploitation of Korean natural resources by mining and timber corporations from Russia, the United States, France, the United Kingdom and Japan until 1897.''

# Only the King (and not the Yangban elite) is to control the government.

If anyone can provide references that can back up these statements, putting them back in the article with the according citations would be greatly appreciated. Nuyos (talk) 18:32, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

degree of Japanese influence
The article says " Historians debate the degree of Japanese influence in this program". This needs reliable sources, because my sources say explicitely that the Gabo reforms were pushed through by the Japanese:

 * Cumings, Bruce. Korea's Place in the Sun: A Modern History. New York: W.W. Norton & Company (1997). ISBN 0-393-31681-5 page 120.
 * Nahm, Andrew C. Korea: Tradition and Transformation — A History of the Korean People, második kiadás, Elizabeth, NJ: Hollym International (1996). ISBN 1-56591-070-2, page 179
 * Michael J. Seth. A History of Korea: From Antiquity to the Present. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers (2010). ISBN 9780742567177, page 246.

Teemeah 편지 (letter)  16:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Sangtu haircut
The article mentions a traditional Korean haircut which the reforms attempted to get rid of, but the Sangtu link leads to a city in Iran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.162.158.110 (talk) 04:49, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Gabo Reform


text:
Talk:Gaya confederacy

From a Bill Gates interview re: localised versions of Encarta... (http://www.btimes.co.za/97/0406/tech/tech6.htm)
"And in another edition we made the factual mistake of saying that a small state in southern Korea, known as Kaya to the Koreans and Mimana to the Japanese, had been "dominated" by Japan in the 3rd and 4th centuries. Before corrected, this error provoked outrage in South Korea with  one  newspaper calling for a boycott of all Microsoft products."

Might want to mention that in the politics section somewhere (I'm too lazy to add it :) )

 * That's not much of a correction. The "Japaneseness" isn't the factual correction he's refering to.  All he's saying is that it can't be said that it was "dominated."  It still could be a colony or minor Japanese state.
 * --Watchreader 16:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

That's most likely untrue. First of all, the only supporting "evidence" are two references, as far as I am aware. Second, are you saying that I descend from Japan? I descend directly from the Royal throne of Gaya. I am the Thirty-Fourth direct descendant of King Suro of Gaya, and Japanese records have no mention whatsoever about the history of Gaya. Odst 01:38, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the Gwanggeto stele (I've seen it before), Goguryeo had dominance over the northern portion of the Korean peninsula. This brought rise to the claim that there might have been a Japanese Settlement or colony, which was much dismissed as bias by Japanese scholars until Japan had need for a justification to colonize Korea from 1910 - 1945.
 * According to the Nihon Shoki, which was (and is) much criticized by many scholars for its factual inaccuracy, claims that empress consort Jingu, while she was Pregnant with Hachiman, conquered Gaya and made Baekje, Shilla, and Goguryeo a vassal of Wa, all in 3 years. However, this partially conflicts with the Gwanggeto stele, and also severely conflicts with Chinese and Korean records. In the Goguryeo Bon-gi, there is a record that Wa sent an emissary to Goguryeo during the Goguryeo-Sui wars to pledge allegiance to the king of Goguryeo.

 * Ok buddy, calm down a second. First and foremost, I'm not a scholar of this issue.  I'm merely a student.  I also never claimed one way or the other that one theory of the Japanese colony was more likely than the other.  I was merely pointing out that the "correction" is ambiguous.  Gate's wasn't saying that Mimana didn't exist, only that Japanese culture didn't "dominate" the region.  Indeed, the correction could have merely been that Mimana, the Japanese colony, was separate from the Gaya kingdom (traditionally the colony is referred to as "Inma" in Korean).  I don't know though, since the English version of this issue (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BB%BB%E9%82%A3) doesn't exist.  Perhaps you, being the decedent of royalty to Gaya, can translate from the Korean version (http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%9E%84%EB%82%98%EC%9D%BC%EB%B3%B8%EB%B6%80).

 * Second of all, most theories I've heard never claim that Mimana (Inma) conquered the Silla, Baekje, or Goguryeo. In fact most of them claim they were taken over by Korean forces.  They also say that mostly the Japanese forces gave military support and tribute to Baekje.  It's also not clear how powerful the Kingdom of Wa is at this point, since there are few records (Japanese or Chinese) that go in depth on this issue.  The Kingdom of Wa could refer to several Japanese states, one of which could have lent support to Goguryeo.

 * Third, what the hell are you talking about with this descendant stuff? Am I supposed to be impressed by your bloodline or something?  And I suppose that since part of your bloodline going back thousands of years to the Gaya royalty, it's absolutely impossible that you have descended from people who were Japanese speaking (which I've never claimed one way or the other)?  Your mentioning of lineage is both irrelevant and arrogant.

 * Lastly, of course no Japanese records talk about the kingdom of Gaya! Why would they?  The Nihon Shoki is the one of the first forms of Japanese historical documentation EVER, and that was written several decades AFTER the unification of Korea.  And as you've pointed out, it's not really a historical document as much as a compilation of origin myths with some historical perspective.  It doesn't even go too deeply or accurately into Japanese history, so why on earth would you expect Japanese records to talk about Gaya?

--Watchreader 05:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I guess Korea don't hold historical proof for this article. Samguk Sagi is their oldest extant Korean historical document. We need more citations or other documents. If not, this article would be just a "hear-say" statement. -- Brionies 08:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Groundless theory, archaeological evidences shows Gaya artifacts are older than Japanese artifacts which resembled identical designs and Gaya was No.1 iron smith & trader at that time, there is no such evidence of Japanese iron smith before Gaya times, later iron smiths came from Gaya and passed onto Japan.--Korsentry 02:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Gayageum
Is the gayageum named for the Gaya confederacy? Badagnani (talk) 01:33, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * yes, it is. It was supposedly invented by a king of Gaya. Odst (talk) 02:27, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Er, not. It was supposedly invented by a subordinate of the king that had orders from him. Kfc 18645   talk  05:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Korean POV
Deletion of the source.AND The claim is not a fact.--Bentecbye (talk) 03:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, well, well, you're edit warring with Kubie up to 3 time reverts, not me (I only reverted yours once). You also altered the previous wording. --Caspian blue (talk) 03:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You base the findings of sculpted jade and tumuluses (both of which is not exclusive to Japanese societies) on the Korean peniusula as the definitive proof that Gaya may have been a Japanese colony. It makes more sense that those findings were transported to Japan via Gaya. Kuebie (talk) 04:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Your claim is not necessary.You should write the description with the source.--Bentecbye (talk) 04:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The technology of Gaya was much more advanced than the Japanese dynasties. this is POV(WP:ASF).

Some scholars claim that The technology of Gaya was much more advanced than the Japanese dynasties. this is NPOV.

--Bentecbye (talk) 05:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, if you can find counter-evidence that states that somehow Japan's bronze/iron culture was indigenous to the island and was acquired before the kingdoms on the mainland then sure. Other than that, it is what it is. Kuebie (talk) 05:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Manacpowers (Talk | contribs) (9,690 bytes) (sorry, no source.) (undo)

Cannot he watch a source?He is Vandalism.--Bentecbye (talk) 23:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 * please prove it, it is a "some scohlar" claim. Manacpowers (talk) 23:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * and this is a history of korea. basially, 'history of korea' based on korean pov. Manacpowers (talk) 23:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 * 'history of korea' based on korean pov ????? Read WP:NPOV--Bentecbye (talk) 23:23, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * no, it is not mean, history of korea' must based on korean pov. history of korea most researched by Korean. so it made by korea scholar. anyway, please prove it, it is a "some scohlar" claim. Manacpowers (talk) 23:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Please read WP:NPOV.--Bentecbye (talk) 23:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know what is the WP:NPOV, more than You. please prove it, it is a "some scohlar" claim. i poin out that it is a major point of view. it is not a minor point of view. Manacpowers (talk) 23:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 * The technology of Gaya was much more advanced than the Japanese dynasties

 * Kenneth B. Lee who is korean scohlar claim this theory is widely rejected even in Japan as there was no Japanese dynasty at the time which had a strong enough military power to conquer Gaya or any other part of Korea. This is description OF NPOV.

ok?--Bentecbye (talk) 00:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

and DO NOT DELATE THE FACT. In recent years,many typical Japanese tumulus Kofun and jades was found in this area.
 * Findings of typical Japanese tumulus Kofun in Korea (韓国全羅道地方の前方後円墳調査)
 * Nihon no tanjō|isbn=4004305101
 * Zenpo koenfun to kodai niccho kankei--Bentecbye (talk) 00:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

 * well, even that do not mentioned it. also your source is Japanese favored POV pushing source. it's not NPOV. Manacpowers (talk) 02:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

 * your source is Japanese favored POV pushing source. --Bentecbye (talk) 02:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1st of all, your source do not say so.
 * 2nd, most of korean scholar do not claim like that.
 * 3rd, it is easy to POV edit by Wikipeida content forking. Manacpowers (talk) 02:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

anyway, did you really read this (韓国全羅道地方の前方後円墳調査)? this is not mean "In recent years,many typical Japanese tumulus Kofun and jades was found in this area." no sentence like your claim. are you make hoax?Manacpowers (talk) 02:36, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually Japan is little known for jade production, it's highly likely these jades were imported to Japan by Gaya people. Do not insert hoax Japanese claims as most Kofun items in Japan are known to be stolen from Korean.--Korsentry 05:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talk • contribs)

Korean POV EDIT

this theory is widely rejected even in Japan as there was no Japanese dynasty at the time which had a strong enough military power to conquer Gaya or any other part of Korea.

The technology of Gaya was much more advanced than the Japanese dynasties.

THIS IS NO FACT.THIS IS OPINION OF Kenneth B. Lee.

Write the opinion as an opinion.Do not write an opinion as a fact.The opinion is different from fact.
 * WP:SUBSTANTIATE

Kenneth B. Lee says The technology of Gaya was much more advanced than the Japanese dynasties.

this is NPOV.--Bentecbye (talk) 18:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Actually the recent archaeological findings does back this up, the Japanese iron smiths wasn't developed as Gaya, all the identical artifacts discovered from Gaya regions were much older than these of Japanese, also Gaya was main iron smithing and trading state; this made Gaya very rich state (you can see it from their golden jeweleries and crowns). You won't find such splendid golden crowns from Japan. This proves Gaya was much more developed and advanced enough to hassle Silla. Btw all the DNA studies proves Gaya people were same line as Silla people, proving they weren't Japanese at all. Just because Japanese kofun period shows identical artifacts that discovered from Gaya, it doesn't mean Japan was advanced, if Japan was advanced than Gaya, then why all the discoveries in Gaya are much older than Japan? And why Gaya people weren't Japanese? There is no evidence that Japanese language survived in Korean peninsula. Kenneth B. Lee is using archaeological evidence as his opinion which is fair judgment from scholastic POV.--Korsentry 02:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talk • contribs)

Please add fact tags to portion of text that you think needs citations.Melonbarmonster2 (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

to User:Kuebie
it is a generally held view.

Please submit the source of this　your remark. AND READ WP:SUBSTANTIATE--Propastop (talk) 02:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

to User:Novidmarana

we usually do not mention the name of the author of a source, except when it is just a personal opinion

Is this Policies and guidelines?? or An your original opinion? Please READ WP:SUBSTANTIATE--Propastop (talk) 09:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

edit of koreans
edit of koreans

Please read Avoid weasel words.

''Weasel words help to obscure the meaning of biased expressions and are therefore dishonest. For example, an editor might preface the statement "Montreal is the best city in the world" with a disclaimer: "some people say that Montreal is the best city in the world". This is true: some people do say that Montreal is the best city in the world. The problem is that the reverse is true as well (some people say Montreal is not the best city in the world, and some go further and say that it is the worst), and thus it is easy to mislead the reader and to spread hearsay, personal opinion and propaganda, which is contrary to the spirit and the rules of Wikipedia (see WP:V and WP:NPOV).''

''If a statement is true without weasel words, remove them. If they are needed for the statement to be true, consider removing the statement. If there is a genuine opinion, make the preface more specific. Who are these people? When, where, and why did they say that? What kind of bias might they have? How many is "some"? If you consider the different answers these questions might have, you can see how meaningless the "some people say" qualification is. To assist users in deciding how to attribute ideas more precisely, the Wikipedia verifiability policy provides specific criteria for the support a statement must have for it to remain in an article unchallenged. This is one of Wikipedia's core content policies, determining the type and quality of material that is acceptable in articles, and it is this policy that weasel words undermine.''

''There are different variations on weasel wording, with the general principle of introducing some proposition without attributing it to any concrete source. "Most scientists believe that..." fails to provide any evidence that this is indeed the case, or to clarify just where between 50% and 100% "most" is, for that matter. The case is similar with things that are apparently true "according to some studies" or "contrary to popular opinion". "It has been proven that" allusion to proof does not constitute proof, "Science says" that science is an abstract concept which in actuality is not capable of speech, and "it could be argued" that the no original research policy is there for a reason. The word "seemingly" inserted into a statement raises the question of to whom the proposition seems thus, and on what evidentiary basis. And so on.''

''It is, of course, acceptable to introduce some fact or opinion and attribute it in an inline citation. e.g. "Research by Wong et al, 1996, has shown that rabies can be cured by acupuncture".''

''And at the bottom of the page:

KOREANS, OK?

--Propastop (talk) 09:44, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes? And how is that related to the article in question? Novidmarana (talk) 16:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Cannot you understand the difference between opinion and fact? If you cannot understand it,You must not edit wikipedia.--Propastop (talk) 02:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And your opinion on this matter to us? Does your personal opinion is greater than opinions from expertises? --Korsentry 02:24, 11 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talk • contribs)

Good grief. Please learn to just give us the link instead of pasting the entire text. That's what hyperlinks are for.Melonbarmonster2 (talk) 21:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

LOL@ n00bish racism. "Koreans"? "Japanese"? 192.12.88.7 (talk) 22:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

city states? that's not what Barnes said
A line on the page was changed by someone to:

''The individual polities that made up the Gaya confederacy have been characterized as small city-states. [2].''

The source used for this is Barnes 2001. Please show me where in Barnes 2001 that he says that Gaya polities were city states. Barnes never says this. Please check the book; there is no such statement in Barnes 2001. Barnes states that archaeological evidence strongly suggests that these polities correspond to complex chiefdoms. The original line in the Gaya confederacy used the term "complex chiefdom". I would be very surprised if someone could find a reliable authoriative source that says Gaya was a city state. Would somebody please change it back. I don't edit the Wiki but sometimes I consult some articles. I wish somebody will correct this error. Wikipedia users often comlain about the mistakes. Please correct it. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.149.163 (talk) 15:17, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Problem with source?
According to Christopher Beckwith, "The spelling Kaya is the modern Korean reading of the characters used to write the name; the pronunciation /kara/ (transcriptionally *kala) is certain."[5].

However, the full quote goes...

It became known as Kara, or Mimana, and never achieved political equality with the other kingdoms of the Peninsula. Little is known about Kara, but it was under heavy Japanese influence and at times it was a Japanese tributary state, if not an outright colony.

This is problematic on two fronts. 1. He's siding with the idea that Japanese were there. 2. His reference is actually referencing himself on another paper he wrote...

"It is possible that the name Kara is an exonym, suggesting that the "native" name was Mimana. The spelling Kaya is a modern Korean reading of the characters used to write the name; the pronunciation /kara/ (transcriptionally *kala) is certain) (Beckwith 2007a: 40 n. 27)"

Considering these two things and the fact he's siding with Japanese and the book said that later historians dispute his claims, doesn't this kind of make the reference either outdated or at least confusing? Clearing this part up is a good idea and making it clear that he's basing it on previous Japanese assumptions rather than from a contemporary or at least Korean linguistic-based view of the name. i.e. that his opinion carries outdated biases.

Edit request from Stacs13, 11 June 2010
The last point in the "Politics sub category" with the statement:

A joint study group of South Korean and Japanese historians sponsored by the two governments came to the conclusion that there was no Japanese foothold in that era.[16]

This statement cannot be validated and should be removed as the source no longer exists.

Stacs13 (talk) 11:33, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Done Spigot  Map  12:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit obvious Korean nationalist POV
I believe that this section: "Political and trade relations with Japan have been a source of nationalist controversy in both Korea and Japan. Japanese publicists during the twentieth century looked to the controversial Nihonshoki, which claims that Gaya (named "Mimana" also "Kara" in Japanese) was a military outpost of Japan during the Yamato period (300-710). While there is absolutely no evidence to support this widely rejected contention, the claim has nonetheless been advocated at various times by Japanese imperialists, nationalists and press to justify the Japanese invasion of Korea (1910–1945)" needs to be rewritten, it is in no ways objective. Also I don't agree with the citing Wontack Hong's book on the origins of Yamato Wa, which while interesting is extremely bias. I would prefer to use the more neutral Western Jonathan Best, although he focuses primarily on Baekje, he does discuss Korean-Japanese politics of the 4th-7th century. Furthermore there is nothing on the Japanese side, aside from the argument that Mimana was used for 20th century propaganda. And the quote that there is no evidence that a state in Japan could have invaded Korea, ignores the Korean sources such as the Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa, not to mention the Gwanggaeto stele. The Yamato state was quite powerful during this time, having the ability to demand hostages of Silla and Baekje, and receiving recognition from Chinese dynasties of some degree of sovereignty or influence over Korea. There is no mention of the 5 kings of Wa which are linked to this debate as well. If possible I would like to do some editing to the page, bringing a bit more balance to the subject, or at the least give some advice on what could be added and what words should be edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rekishiotaku (talk • contribs) 03:53, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I would argue that Beckwith's Japanese-Koguryoic language hypothesis is far from widely accepted. Linguists attempt to reconstruct place names based on texts using ancient Chinese characters. This makes it very difficult (if not impossible) to accurately reconstruct the phonology of the words that were actually used by the people that inhabited the Korean peninsula and Japanese archipelago.

I think it is dangerous for historians, archaeologists, and linguists to attempt to assign modern concepts of ethnicity and nationality to peoples of the distant past. We can only imagine how the people who occupied the Gaya polities viewed themselves culturally and ethnically. Trying to stuff them into boxes that fit modern concepts of nationalities will not do--there really can be no conclusion to such an argument. Many nationalist perspectives suggest that ancient inhabitants of the Korean peninsula "dominated" ancient inhabitants of the Japanese archipelago, and vice versa. Although this may have happened many times throughout history, I'm sure the relationships between these peoples were much more complex than one side simply dominating another. I'm sure a similar complexity would characterize relationships among the ancient peoples of Europe as well. The concept of nation simply didn't exist back then as it does today. Therefore, people would not have any notion of nationality as we do today.

Request Correction
"Japanese invasion of Korea (1910–1945)" needs to be corrected to read "Japanese annexation of Korea (1910–1945)" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.51.185.47 (talk) 01:12, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Request Correction 2
Please remove the last two sections of the "Politics" text. They are biased beyond reckoning. The author of that part of the article is picking out the pieces of info that suites his arguements. I here quote (p.308-309) of the same source [footnote 14]

"Whether a colony, a tributary state, or an ally, however, the Kaya league had the closest relationship to Japan of all the Korean states. Kaya provided a foothold on the peninsula for the Japanese until the middle of the sixth century, when the small states were absorbed by Silla."

It is impossible for a professional historian to even consider such a stretched interpretation of Kenneth B. Lee's text. Please remove the rubbish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.138.39 (talk) 23:16, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Mimana controversy and NPOV
Reading comments above, and a neutral Polish book on Korean history with a section on Mimana, I do have to agree that the current treatment of this topic here does not seem neutral, and suggests a Korean nationalistic POV ("there is absolutely no evidence to support this widely rejected contention"... " Theory of a Japanese outpost is widely rejected even in Japan"... "The technology of Gaya was much more advanced than that of the Japanese dynasties of the time"). Two out of five cited sources don't give page ranges; for the other three I would like to see quotes supporting their assertions. Till then I am tagging this with NPOV template. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:52, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * One source didn't mention it at all, so I took it out, the other source did, so I added the two page numbers. However, the claim that Gaya was an outpost of Japan, was retracted by Japan, since the whole thing came from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwanggaeto_Stele, which was severely damaged and it was apparently a misunderstanding of the damaged Stele. (If you read the Nihonshiki article). The attached Empress Consort to this event is now termed by Japan officially as not existing and has mythological status. The Nihonshiki was written way after the fact.

 * Both Japanese and Korean archaeologists in Japan have theorized due to Island theory (i.e. people more generally move to islands from land masses rather than reverse) and also evidence by differences between Ainu and Japanese Architecture from the Yayoi that Japan was most likely formed from a movement of Korean peoples to Japan. There are Japanese nationalists that disagree and think that Japan magically appeared with the people and/or that it was 100% a movement from China and/or Japan's language came from near the Philippines, etc but most worldwide scholars disagree on the plausibility of that. (Not to mention it ignores the Out of Africa Theory) It's more likely that Japan was formed by having Ainu first, and then a large influx of Korean and probably Chinese from the southern tip. Those are outliers, such as the Moon landing didn't happen, or stuff such as the American Civil War wasn't over slavery, etc.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 06:52, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Language?
Why is the language on the sidebar listed as Old Korean with no further comment? There is already a separate article on the Gaya language, and according to that the status of the language is unknown, and what little evidence there is seems to point to it being a Japonic language. In any case it is by no means certain whether it was a dialect of Old Korean or not. I think it's clear that the language in the sidebar should be corrected to link to the NPOV Gaya language page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.164.8.67 (talk) 02:27, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Rulers
No need to remove the list of rulers from the infobox. Info is not available elsewhere. El_C 06:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

532 or 562 disestablishment?
Why does this article say both that the Gaya confederacy came to an end in 532 and 562, with no explanation of this discrepancy? 76.189.141.37 (talk) 22:56, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gaya confederacy


text:
Polish Beer-Lovers' Party

The Polish Beer-Lovers' Party (PPPP; Polska Partia Przyjaciół Piwa) was a satirical Polish political party that was founded in 1990. Originally, the party's goal was to promote cultural beer-drinking in English-style pubs instead of vodka and thus fight alcoholism, but it eventually developed a serious platform based around tax reform and green politics.

Formation
The party was founded by the cast and crew of a late 80's Polish comedy series called "The Beer Scouts" (Skauci Piwni) as "a continuation of [the] TV program." Janusz Rewiński, an actor on the show, was elected leader of the party in April 1991. Andrzej Kołodziejski and Adam Halber, two editors for the now defunct magazine Pan, were responsible for most of the party's early promotion.

Rise and 1991 election
The humorous name and disillusionment with Poland's political transformation led some Poles to vote for and/or join the party, with it having 10,000 registered members by July 1991. The nature of the party's appeal to its supporters was reflected in frequently-heard remarks that, maybe with the PPPP at the helm, "it wouldn't be better but for sure it would be funnier."

Although it started as a joke party, its members developed a serious platform with time, such as stopping the domestic sale of leaded gasoline. Moreover, the idea of political discussion in establishments that served quality beer became a symbol of freedom of association and expression, intellectual tolerance, and a higher standard of living.

In the 1991 parliamentary elections the PPPP won 16 seats in the Sejm, capturing 3.27% of the vote.

Disbanding and successor groups
Soon after the election, the party split into Big Beer and Little Beer factions, despite Rewiński's claims that "beer is neither light nor dark, it is tasty." , future president of the Polish National Party, became leader of the PPPP in 1992 after Rewiński was accused of "cryptic financial operations." The PPPP dissolved in 1993 after it suffered a major defeat in that year's parliamentary election, receiving only 0.1% of the vote.

The Big Beer faction assumed the name Polish Economic Program (PPG; Polski Program Gospodarczy). Dropping its satirical element, it became associated with the Democratic Union (UD). The Little Beer faction became associated with the Liberal Democratic Congress in a coalition of liberal pro-market parties, which supported the candidacy of Hanna Suchocka as prime minister.

In 2007, there was an unsuccessful attempt to revive the party by activists associated with Bubel.

title: Polish Beer-Lovers' Party


text:
Talk:Gayasan National Park

Removing 'san' in Gayasan Mountain
I removed 'san' (산, 山) since it means 'mountain', and thus it would be translated as "Mount Mount Gaya" Richardus (talk) 05:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Thank you. Invertzoo (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Gayasan (North Gyeongsang/South Gyeongsang) be merged into Gayasan National Park because they are essentially about the same subject. The Korean version of the page (ko:가야산) is about the mountain, and contains a section about the national park. Its English language interwiki link points to the page about the national park, not the page for the mountain itself. This article could easily mention the mountain or mountains that are included in the park. 05:12, 5 July 2013 Rystheguy (talk | contribs)

 * I understand the logic of the idea of a merger. However this seems to be a very large national park, and the mountain is just one feature within it, Hopefully in time both articles will be long enough to require each one having its own article. Invertzoo (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gayasan National Park


text:
User talk:BillyH

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title: User talk:BillyH