text:
User talk:Iota

This is the talkpage for Iota.

I am not currently able to be a regular contributor, so please note that comments left may not be read in good time or responded to.

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Dori | Talk 15:04, Mar 5, 2004 (UTC)

Prime Minister
I think the use of capitals is not uncalled for. The Constitution itself glosses 'Taoiseach' as 'Prime Minister', with capitals. It is also worth mentioning that UK and US media often just use the term 'Prime Minister of Ireland' or 'Irish prime minister'. Morwen 01:02, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

Name change
Certainly. I've gone and done the changes. Morwen - Talk 17:27, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Anthems
There is room for overlap between the two projects. Personally I do not consider national anthems or other important short works of poetry source documents. All wikipedia article usually start small and grow. I think it is important to show the lyrics in full because they are central to the article itself, how can you learn about something if you don't see it there before you. If you remove them I guarantee at some point in the future someone will add them back, because it makes sense to have it. Wikipedia is running out of room, there's space for the text to exist in both projects. Mintguy (T) 07:55, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

PIRA
apologist noun : a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution; e.g "an apologist for capital punishment"
 * Mintguy (T)

I have only drawn an inference from your actions, if my inference was incorrect then I apologise. However, in considering the factual information that you removed (i.e a summary of just exactly who calls the IRA a terrorist organsation and the fact that well-attended anti-provisional marches have been held in Dublin along with various other edits), I can come to no other conclusion that that you wished to portray the Provisionals in a more positive light by removing these negative perpectives. What other conclusion am I meant to infer from these actions? Mintguy (T) 22:35, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Hello Iota. I am not overly familiar with Wiki etiquette so please forgive me if this isn't the right place to post this comment.  Anyway, I'd like to draw your attention to my question in the discussion we were having on the PIRA page about whether or not "terrorist" is a fair word to use...

 * "Iota, to clarify: assuming that a significant minority of Arabs don't consider them to be terrorists, is it your position that Al Qaeda should not be referred to as a terrorist group in Wikipedia? [CK]"

CPO-STV
Hello, Iota. I have written a paper about an STV method that is very similar to Tideman's CPO-STV method. Please send me (markus.schulze@alumni.tu-berlin.de) a short mail if you want a copy of this paper (PDF format; 88 pages; 4.6 MB; you need Adobe Acrobat Reader 5 or later to read this file). Markus Schulze 08 Nov 2004

Federation
The European Union is NOT a confederation and I feel I was quite justified removing that claim from the article. -- Dissident (Talk) 01:35, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Flag of Ireland
Iota what's your source for the E company info? I could find only one dubious source on Google. -Lapsed Pacifist.

Just that it seems dodgy to me. It could well be true, but I have read a fair bit on this and never came across it before.--Lapsed Pacifist 06:59, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I presume this revert by you was a mistake, since it's tagged as minor and has no edit summary. There's a bit of deja vu going on in the edits. Joestynes 10:48, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

German presidents
That's ok about the German Presidents artice - you just have to be less possessive about your articles in time like Adam and I have learned to be. PMA 00:38, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sorry - i have an autistic disorder so things sometimes don't come out the way i mean them to - no rudeness was intended or written - you just seemed to be as protective of your articles as Adam and I were in our early days and i was trying to be helpfull by suggesting that you could start to ease up in time like we did. PMA 00:10, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Article: Kurdistan
The article Kurdistan has a very sensetive nature, I dont know what your problem is but do not revert the article unless you have support for your changes in the discussion. I moved quite a lot to there. Things are first discussed that added to the article. POV is not tolerated on wikpedia. Coolcat

No problem. I guess "Vandalism" was a harsh word. My views on the Kurdistan issue are irrelevant. I just dont like seeing accusations on wikipedia forums. My views on the Kurdistan is primarily based on my experienced with the group known as the PKK. I am very sensative on the issue. However I don't let my emotions drive me, so all I want to achive is neutrality in the article. --Cool Cat 07:37, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Check kurdistan talk ;) Cat chi? 15:09, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

History of the southern Irish state
To head of an imminent edit war, please respond to challenge to your arbitrary reversions in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_the_southern_Irish_state

vandalism?
I am new to that stuff and a bit confused that there is no standard contact address to report vandalism so I tell you: your entry for federation has been overwritten and noe there is some advertisement. -JamaicaJan

US spellings
Whoops. Thanks for your corrections, I see I didn't check carefully enough. Now I know better and promise to check more carefully in the future. Sorry again. -Nikai 15:24, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Question about Derry Edit
Good you fixed the history link, I'm new to this so didn't figure that the history link was broken rather than non-existant. So it made sense to remove the history link subsequently. Just wondering why you removed the sporting links I added? From what I have read I didn't reckon they were against policy, but I thought they added to the usefulness of the wiki...Just wondering where I've gone wrong. Newbie mistake? Difference of Opinion? CheersSeanMack 21:01, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No worries about the edit, I've added them back in and included the rugby for balance. SeanMack 04:21, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Mr. Coolcat Goes to ArbCom
Hi, I've noticed that you've met Cc; care to have a chat about him? Davenbelle 13:03, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

Kurdistan
We agreed to a lot of things which we no longer, may I ask why? Why was "Kurdish seperatists" removed? It isnt exactly contraversial as you suggested. Cat chi? 01:32, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, I wasnt expecting outside interference by several users. Apperantly they were responsible. I made some modifications to the article. I removed foot note, please dont add it as samething exists in links ;)
 * I find the title Mr. in front of my nick insultive, feel free to keep it if you want to insult me.
 * The articles related to Kurds are under attack by two users as you can see from history, I do not know what they are trying to prove, but I will not allow the neutrality of these articles comprimised. Cat chi? 02:16, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I ment them not you. I have seen your minor edits, thats why I did not simply revert, new picture is nice. I placed the table in a template and off the page as we can use it on other articles.
 * The word attack was carefully chosen, they have been revrting most of my edits remotely related to Turkey as "POV" since I made the mistake of disafreeing in Armenian Genocide article. In life never ever disagree with armenian genocide, people will eiter murder you or annoy you to death as they are doing. You have no idea what I am dealing with, so please accept my apoology of some of my wrath escaping at your general direction. Cat chi? 02:37, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, since the cloud of uncertantly settles, and since you are a reasonable and logical fellow, lets work on the articles related to Kurds and Turkey together as I have been declared "a chronic POV pusher whose edits must be reverted", I need your confirmation in matters.

Kurdistan Phase #2
I do not belive Turkish Kurdistan or Iraqi Kurdistan is approporate. The word Kurdistan stads for "Land of the Kurds". Turkish "Land of the Kurds" does not quite work as intended, implies invasion of a loosely called region. Cat chi? 04:14, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You and I are a very constructive team, I value your opinions, please understand that by no means do I want to offend you. Cat chi? 04:14, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * There? Cat chi? 14:33, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Taoiseach changed?
Who changed it form Taoiseach?--Boothy443 | comhrÚ 02:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Amendments to the constitution
What the hell did you do with the move to that page? If you had waited thirty seconds til I had added in the planation to the talk page you would have seen that the move was advised by a series of political scientists, law lecturers and others who said categorically that of is 100% wrong when used in the plural. A single amendment when proposed can be described as of the constitution. Amendments made or being described in the plural have to be described as to because they describe the collective addition of changes made to, not of, the text. Now you've jammed both pages and broken links. The talk page won't link in comments and the technical staff will have to erase links to untangle the mess. One half of the links now is jammed in edit conflicts. Next time check why someone has moved a page and never ever ever move a page within seconds of a move. It screws up the page links completely. Fear ÉIREANN 02:40, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You did a cut and paste???? You NEVER EVER [never] cut and paste an article. It is fundamental rule of wikipedia. It wipes out records, cuts links, corrupts archives. Jesus. Never ever do that on wikipedia. Never ever. Fear ÉIREANN 02:56, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, the rules are to put articles at their correct name. The correct name for a plurality of articles to a constitution is not of. But you never ever ever cut and paste an article. People have been banned from wikipedia for that. You left to articles in limbo, both directing to each other with the text lost. I've managed to find a way to undo that but you have completely erased the talk page with the word of in it and left it in limbo and I cannot find a way to restore it. The technical staff are going to have to undo your mess. I cannot believe that someone around here for so long could even think of cutting and pasting an article. It is just about the most serious error you can do. You are told on the move command never ever to cut and paste. Did you read the warnings??? 03:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hey, don't worry about it. Sorry if I lost the head but apart from anything else it jammed my browser and I lost 4 hours of work on a new article. We'll find a way to get back the lost talk page. But seriously, I was not trying to mess up the article. You have done some fabulous work on wikipedia. I just was going on the universal advice of academics. A tip - if an article is moved, give about a half an hour to see if an explanation is made on the talk page. There may be a very good reason. I don't move articles except with very good reason. We'll find some way of merging the talk pages. I undid the other damage by going to your page and rolling back your edits, which put the main pages back with the links. But as my comments had already been saved on the talk page of the on we ended up with two talk pages. We'll let the technical lads sort it out and we writers can get on with our writing. :-) Sorry again for the rather strong reaction. Fear ÉIREANN  03:26, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Problem solved. I've deleted the to talk page, then moved the of page to the empty to space and that has joined up the article to its talk page and to all its links and archives (except I think for your cut and paste. I think that may have been lost, though you may be glad of that). I'm amused at my technical prowess. At this stage I'd better go to bed. Slán abhaile, a chara (or is it a cara?) :-) 03:38, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why revert?
Why did you revert my changes to Upper House ? Any particular reason, since you didn't state anything in the edit summary? Thanx 68.39.174.150 00:53, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Independant Irish States
Hello Iota. At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland you wrote the following:

"The Irish Free State was the first de facto state. The earlier Irish Republic established some working institutions but couldn't be called a full, de facto state. On the other hand the question of when independence began de jure is much more complicated. Many have, and still do, maintain that the de jure state was established in 1919 (or even 1916)."

Okay, but what about the previous independant Irish states? Is'nt it a bit much to say that the first independant Irish state came into being in 1922? Cheers. Fergananim 00:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

RV of Electionworld politic template
I disagreed with Electionworld's  edits but now he is changing to And it doesnt look so bad anymore. By the way please explain your reverts in the edit summary. more than just a revert but an explanation. I did agree with your reverts but now there is a more appropriate template to use--E-Bod 20:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Now he is even user a Better template. So before you revert consider useing  --E-Bod 21:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * You're right, I probably didn't go about that in the best way. I still think the template is too long and shouldn't be in articles that aren't part of the series. It also is somewhat arbitrary in the electoral systems it chooses to include.

 * To be honest in most cases I can't see why these things are necessary. Apart from increasing clutter, and getting in the way of any nice pictures, they don't perform any task not already done adequately by embedded links, the 'see also' section and the category system. Yet some Wikipedians seem to think we need huge templates everywhere. Iota 15:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree that sometimes it is totally unnecessary. However an example of the template being non-intrusive and helpful is with the template on Retina Or Google or any other Template on the Bottom.  It's just those long ones on the sides of pages, that displace useful stuff, bother me.  When it is nicely on the bottom and links to parent sister and children articles that it is useful.  However i agree Many times these template are not useful.--E-Bod 20:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Non Japanese and Equality under the Law
Your article goes against Japanese Supreme Court rulings. There are several Supreme Court rulings about foreign nationals and Equality: Local election rights and equality (SC 2001.6.27) Foreign nationals and civil service (SC 2006.1.26) Foreign nationals and Social welfare rights (SC 1990.3.2). All apply article 14 to foreign nationals. (Year/month/date of ruling)

Granted, a minority interpretation exists: Since the constitution uses the phrase "Nannpito" (Anyone/Everyone) and "Kokumin" (Citizen), it concludes that article 14 (uses "Kokumin") does not apply to foreign nationals. However this interpretation is not taken by the Supreme Court, nor is it the official interpretation of the government. It also has a logical problem with article 22 paragraph 2 (uses "Nannpito"), since the right to forfeit nationality cannot be guaranteed to a non-Japanese national. --Fortifiedchicken 05:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I have left a note about an existance of a court ruling stating that Japan may raise an army, on "Constitution of Japan" discussion page. I'll just add a few more details. First, I could not find any such ruling. Second, the reason I could think of, is that your source misunderstood the Sunagawa ruling. Sunagawa ruling was a ruling about the US military forces' role in complimenting Japan's defence capability, and the conflict with article 9. The the U.S. forces (stationed) in Japan is under the command of the United States government, where as article 9 prohibits the possestion of military forces under the command of the Japanese government. If your source has the date of the court ruling, district or Supreme, that ruled that Japan may raise an army, do mention it. --Fortifiedchicken 06:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Additional Member System
Do you have a response for Talk:Additional Member System? --Midnighttonight 07:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Category:Rugby union in Ireland
The Irish categories are something of a mess. The above cat is supposed to be an all-Ireland cat as rugby union is an all-Ireland sport. Somebody did start a rugby union in Northern Ireland cat but I hope it has been deleted, rugby union just isn't organised that way in Ireland. It is unclear whether Category:Sport in Ireland is an all-Ireland cat or a Republic of Ireland cat, the existance of Category:Sport in Northern Ireland implies the latter. I have therefore restored rugby union in Ireland as a subcat of Northern Irish sport. Otherwise there is no way to get to the Irish rugby union category from Northern Irish sport which is crazy.

Again Northern Ireland is part of the UK and therefore the rugby union in Ireland cat can fit into a 'British cat'. You don't have to be able to put the whole category into a parent category for it to be a valid subcat. In plain English the fact that most of Ireland is not part of the UK doesn't mean that all-Ireland cats cannot be put into British categories. Otherwise you cannot go from Rugby union in the UK to articles on rugby union in Ireland (which of course includes Northern Ireland). I have, therefore, put rugby union in the UK back as a parent category.

The only alternative is to have entirely separate RoI / NI categories thqt don't overlap. I am opposed to this because with the major exception of soccer, it would be a nonsense to divide Irish sport up like that.GordyB 22:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hare quota
Hi! I read the hare quota article - are you sure it disadvantages larger parties? I read that it (and Sainte-Laguë) is more proportional, which would mean it simply doesnt give aditional advantage to them - and this is what the largest reminder method article also says. Also you say its fallen into disuse and that its technically inferior, cuz it can give a minority of seats to majority of voters choice. This can in any case be corrected at the end of the calculation, which seems fitting to such an ad-hoc request anyways. I also noticed how this article barely mentions how it can be and is used in a party-list proportional ellections (and Ive seen a suggestion of how highest averages methods, with an optional preliminary quota of choosing might be adapted to a no party list, prefferential votes)... These articles support the claim of it being a more proportional system: ("In the largest remainder systems, use of the Hare quota "tends to yield closely proportional results," while use of the Droop and Imperiali quotas produces less proportional outcomes. Overall, the d'Hondt method is judged to be the least proportional, while use of the Sainte-Laguë highest average and largest remainder system using a Hare quota produce the greatest proportionality"),,. Im sure this assesment isnt withought contention, but it is quite sufficient to make both the claim of disadvantaging larger parties, and certaly of being technically inferior _universally_, false --Aryah 01:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Requested move of United Provinces of Central America
I noticed you have contributed to the discussion at United Provinces of Central America and thought you might be interested in an move request there. -  AjaxSmack   01:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Irish History
You seem like you have a lot a knowledge with respect Irish history so maybe you would like to comment on the historic basis of this term here Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-12-02 IRA 'Volunteer' usage —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DownDaRoad (talk • contribs) 00:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Ireland naming question
You are receiving this message because you have previously posted at a Ireland naming related discussion. Per Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names, a procedure has been developed at WikiProject Ireland Collaboration, and the project is now taking statements. Before creating or replying to a statement please consider the statement process, the problems and current statements. GnevinAWB (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Members of the European Parliament from Northern Ireland
I have nominated members of the european parliament from northern ireland for renaming to members of the european parliament for northern ireland. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Cropped 25 cent bill.jpg
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September 2009
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, you may not know that Wikipedia has a Manual of Style that should be followed to maintain a consistent, encyclopedic appearance. Using different styles throughout the encyclopedia makes it harder to read. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. ''Please preview and read your changes before you click submit. Some of your edits were of poor quality and did not contribute to the overall article. Thank you!'' Tom (talk) 01:52, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Asperger edits
It took me a long time to sort out what your minor edits were (my problem, my eyesight); would you mind including more in your edit summaries? Just saying "comma" or "punctuation" would do the trick. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 14:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Iota! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created  is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the article:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 00:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Gordon Wilson (Scottish politician) -

Filibuster in United States listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Filibuster in United States. Since you had some involvement with the Filibuster in United States redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). JPMcGrath (talk) 16:25, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Revision to Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri articles
I noticed that you have revised either Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri or Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire.

I intend to revise those articles following the WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines. There are more details on the discussion pages of those articles. I'd be interested in any comments you have. It would be best if your comments were on the discussion pages of the two articles.

Thank you.

Vyeh (talk) 11:27, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for work on Libertarianism
Especially putting back a first paragraph similar to longstanding lead. I just want the article to reflect all views, having been working on it more than two years and seeing it pulled back and forth between "left" and "right" over and over again. Feel free to comment on the talk page. Is there someway to put some sort of box on top of talk page saying that article should reflect both views?? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 20:08, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation page format
Hi. While patrolling new pages, I came across several disambiguation pages (or "dab" pages) that you created and changed them to conform to the style for these pages. The main things I did were: I'm letting you know about this in case you create more dab pages. If you'd like more information on dab page formatting, you can see WP:DABMOS. Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions. --Auntof6 (talk) 12:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Remove unneeded piping from the links. Links on dab pages should reflect the actual article title as closely as possible
 * Remove a red-linked item that had no other pages linking to it
 * Use rather than

Chomsky
RE: "I don't think Chomsky self-identifies as a 'left-libertarian'"

See: Encyclopedia of Political Economy, ed. Phillip Anthony O'Hara (London: Routledge 1999) 15. which says, " Another [propopent] is Noam Chomsky, who generally calls himself a “left  libertarian”  in  his  political  writings (with  a  history  of  opposition  to  both  super-powers during the Cold War)."

BigK HeX (talk) 20:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Libertarianism
You deleted a sentence where User:Rapidosity recently changed the sentence such that it misused the source. Instead of deletion, do you think bringing it back closer to it's previous state would be better? "Some libertarians support a minimal state, while others wish to abolish the state entirely.Right and Left Wings in Libertarianism" Your thoughts? BigK HeX (talk) 20:47, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

On the neverendum .... Yworo has opposed earlier deletionist proposals. I think there's a huge chance that it's a good faith effort to find a solution. BigK HeX (talk) 14:45, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Fair point. Iota (talk) 15:00, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Why
This? mark nutley (talk) 21:19, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

WSR
this edit reintroduces the text under discussion. On the talk I asked if there is a WP:RS that identifies them as libertarian; I checked the sources there but I must have missed the relevant text. If you could clarify that wraps the matter up --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 23:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Reverts
Could you please mark your reverts clearly as such, thanks mark nutley (talk) 18:56, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

CNT
This will obviously go nowere, you seem set on having obviously anarchist groups in the article so i feel an RFC is the next logical step, could you please make you case here for their inclusion, thanks mark nutley (talk) 17:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Long quote
Since you added the Long quote and then inserted the clarifying bracketed phrase, I thought you might be interested in this discussion in which the inserted bracketed phrase is bewilderingly argued to be an MOS violation. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom Election RFC courtesy notice
A request for comment that may interest you is currently in progress at Requests for comment/2010 ArbCom election voting procedure. If you have already participated, then please disregard this notice and my apologies. A Horse called Man 15:22, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Shotgun (cannabis)

The article Shotgun (cannabis) has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * This seems like a candidate for Wiktionary (at best), not Wikipedia. It is almost completely unreferenced, and the only wiki links to the article are a disambiguation page and a redirect (which should also be deleted if this one goes). Not every Urban Dictionary entry merits a Wikipedia analog.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  B.Rossow ·  talk  15:08, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Soledad O'Brien
Not Irish conform her article? Interesting. What do you thiong of this sentemce: O'Brien's parents married in 1958 in Washington, D.C. Her father Edward, an Australian (from Toowoomba, Queensland)[4] of Irish descent, was a mechanical engineering professor? Better read the article again... Night of the Big Wind talk  23:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Hi, Night of the Big Wind.

 * Yes, I did read that part. It's also apparent from the article that Ms. O'Brien has U.S. citizenship, that she was born and grew up in the States, and that her parents were an Australian and a Cuban. So clearly she's American, not Irish. I think what you mean to say is that she's an "Irish American". Iota (talk) 00:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I try to point out that she is of Irish descent' Night of the Big Wind  talk  00:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Table of referendums relating to the Constitution of Ireland
Template:Table of referendums relating to the Constitution of Ireland has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:35, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Wall Street Transparency and Accountability Act for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Wall Street Transparency and Accountability Act is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Wall Street Transparency and Accountability Act until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Jerzeykydd (talk) 04:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Edwin Hubble (disambiguation)

The article Edwin Hubble (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
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User talk:Glorioso Rocha

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Talk:Ethology

Misc
Hmm, not much practical information on Ethology, and that while it's potentially one of the most exciting[1] sciences in existence.

One of the more notable things is that Ethology doesn't just use Empiricism and theory of science, like most sciences, but it actually occaisionally goes all the way back to Epistemology to resolve problems with differences in perception between observer and observed.

[1] Exciting in the sense that in field research, it's said to help if you're a good runner.

Kim Bruning 15:06, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Reverted
I removed these edits by User:Bobble, User:Wikiconcarne, and User:Wikiwikifresh (all of who are pretty clearly the same person). There seems to be actual information in here, although not much of use as far as I can tell. I don't have time to go through it right now, so I'll look at it later or you decide. --128.218.169.187 19:47, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Myontonia in Tennessee Fainting Goats
Animal Behavior

When most people think of goats, they think of high jumpers and strong climbers. In the case of the Tennessee fainting goat, the goat is medium sized compared to its relatives and neither jumps high nor can climb very strongly. These goats might seem like they are hurting themselves every time they fall over, but their muscles actually become stronger because of fainting. Tennessee fainting goats are fascinating creatures that use a defense mechanism that developed because of a combination of recessive genes. Tennessee Fainting goats (Capra hircus) are often called stiff-leg, nervous, wooden-leg, and scare goat. This type of goat originated in Tennessee due to a genetic defect that caused these goats to develop myotonia congenita. Myotonia congenita is a condition that is caused by a combination of recessive genes. These goats do not actually faint, and myotonia has nothing to do with the goat’s central nervous system. This condition only affects the goat’s external muscles, which makes the goat’s external leg muscles to become stiff. Stiffness in the external muscles can lead younger goats to fall over while older goats learn to lock their legs and still stand. Although these goats might fall over and seem to pass out, myotonia will not harm any internal organs. The goats remain conscious during the whole experience and will regain mobility to its legs within ten to fifteen seconds after it has fallen down. The effects of myotonia can also vary due to the intensity of how frighten the goat becomes when it is scared. The goat is more likely to fall down when the level of fright becomes higher. The Tennessee fainting goat also uses fainting as a defense mechanism by pretending to be dead. Because of the myotonia, the Tennessee fainting goat’s muscles have more overall muscle mass than its other relatives. Tennessee fainting goats become very full and wide because of the increase muscle mass. This goat is sometimes called meat goats because of the better quality of meat they produce since their muscle contract more often and increase striated muscle because of myotonia. Other than increasing muscle mass, myotonia serves a purpose to shepherds as well. Although sometimes fainting does not work to the goat’s advantage, Shepherds keep fainting goats within their flock of sheep to allow the sheep to get away while the fainting goat is sacrificed. When wolves attack the herd, the fainting goat becomes startled and falls down. The wolf will go after the goat that is immobile rather than expending energy to chase the sheep. Other than falling over when scared, the Tennessee fainting goats can also be distinguished from other goats by their bulgy eyes and long erected ears. Tennessee fainting goats have high reproductive rates and are in heat most of the year, which make them excellent animal to breed. They are also docile creatures are less prone to escape as oppose to other goats. They make excellent pets and make a good dinner because of their quality of meat.

[][][]

[] --Wikiwikifresh 23:45, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Animal Sexuality
Brooke Vreeland

Biology Undergraduate

Loyola University, New Orleans

Animal behavior can be defined in many ways. One definition defines animal behavior as, “what an animal does and how it does it, which encompasses the nonmotor components of behavior as well as an animal’s observable actions” (Campbell, et al. 1999). One aspect of animal behavior that will be addressed here is sexuality. It is important to note that when studying animal behavior, one should always keep in mind the proximate and ultimate causes (how and why behavior exists).

Although sexual intercourse seems to be a single act, there are many behaviors leading up to the point. There are few animals (such as humans) that enjoy copulation simply for pleasure. For many animals, intercourse is a means of reproduction that can have profound effects on future generations of that animal’s species. Many behaviors revolving around sexuality involve the selection of the best mate possible. By doing this, an animal is essentially passing down the best genes to his or her offspring, causing the offspring to be able to compete and survive amongst their peers. Natural selection is extremely evident in the Animal Kingdom, in which the fight every day leads to the survival of the fittest, and possibly, one’s own genes surviving for many generations.

One important behavior leading to sexual intercourse is the selection of a mate. Particularly true for humans, facial symmetry (as well as body symmetry) is associated with attractiveness. Often, symmetry is associated with health, such as in the brush-legged wolf spider, where females rarely choose males with asymmetrical tufts. It turns out that these males do tend to be smaller and in poorer condition. Several theories define how females tend to choose mates, generally stating the same idea, that males with ornamentation of certain types are signs of material benefits, health, and good genes. Some females even go so far as to deny copulation until a “gift” has been presented to her liking, such as the black-tipped hangingfly, who will only allow the act to proceed when an edible present is available.

Another important behavior that can occur before or after copulation is mate guarding. Mate guarding is “a strategy in which a male attempts to prevent other males from gaining access to a potential or actual mate” (Alcock 2001). Two strategies of mate guarding include sealing the female’s genital closed after copulation and basically staying with the female to ward off other males whose sperm could later be used to fertilize the eggs. These acts lead to the notions of monogamy and polygamy. Although it is hard to believe, monogamy is not natural to mammals. The benefits of monogamy include ensuring that a male’s sperm is used and helping to rear offspring. On the other hand, polygamy ensures that a male’s sperm is spread around enough to potentially produce numerous offspring to subsequent generations. In essence, humans have a fairly simple system of sexuality compared to our fellow animals. After finding a partner, we live an easy sexual life, so the next time you see a movie about a teenage virgin in agony, think twice about what it would be like to be a member of a wild species!

WORKS CITED

Alcock, John. Animal Behavior: An Evolutionary Approach. 7th Ed. 2001. Sinauer 	Associates, Inc.

Campbell, Neil A., Jane B. Reece, and Lawrence G. Mitchell. Biology. 5th Ed. 1999. 	Benjamin/Cummings.

Male Brooding in the Syngnathidae and Its Effects on Sexual Behavior
Ignacio Zabaleta

Biology Undergraduate

Loyola University, New Orleans

In the animal world, the amount of energy that a given sex puts into the care of its offspring dictates the level at which it is able to decide on which partner is suitable for mating. The luxury of having the opposite sex audition for an opportunity to mate is earned through the responsibility of caring for the ensuing offspring. In the majority of terrestrial animals, the way that the reproductive social structure works is that males compete with each other in order to gain an opportunity to copulate with a female, who is the one that chooses the worthy sex partner. Once a sexual relationship is attained and the deed is done, the male usually then leaves the female to go off in search of another sexual encounter. The male need not worry about his progeny because while the male is out, prowling for a new mate, the female stays behind to care for the young.

When it comes to marine life, however, the roles between males and females become blurred. There is far more concern of the males for their offspring. Some species of fish guard the area where their eggs are kept. Some species of male fish even go as far as brooding the eggs in their own mouths. Nonetheless, no fish shows their determination for patriarchal care for their young as much as the seahorse, or class Syngnathidae. “During mating, the female transfers eggs into or onto specialized egg-brooding structures that are located on either the male's abdomen or its tail, where they are osmoregulated, aerated, and nourished by specially adapted structures.” ([]) This physical and energetic commitment seriously warps any semblance of the idea of the sexual roles of males and females to the point of near perversion. As it may be concluded from this strange fact, because of this increased attention to offspring on the males behalf over the amount of energy expenditure that the females donate to their young, there must be a resulting role reversal in terms of the social interactions for sexual partner selection. In fact, for the most part, there is. As the role of parental care is switched from the female to male, so is the mating competition changed from male-male to female-female. This means that in this reversed situation, the females must compete against one another for an attempt to transfer her eggs into the male. Here the male is the determining factor in which female’s eggs get fertilized. Accompanying this new set of rules is the change in sexual dimorphism. “True to predictions…several species are sex-role reversed (e.g., Nerophis ophidion, Stigmatopora nigra, Syngnathus typhle), with females that are more vividly colored and striped than males.” ([]) The pouches of different seahorse species differ in complexity, showing a range of energy investment. Within this range, as the level of brood pouch complexity, or energy investment, increases, so does the frequency of sex role reversals.

--Wikiconcarne 23:20, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Human Cognitive-Developmental Ethology
AN ETHOLOGICAL THEORY OF HUMAN LEARNING -

A MODERN THEORY OF LEARNING, a cognitive-developmental, neo-Piagetian, ethological theory -- based on the methods of classical ethology

The perspective below is to orient one to basic cognitive-developmental human ethology and provide a research outlook for studies in that area.

This outlook, I believe, allows for continuous growth of knowledge in some basic areas of psychology. The heart or essence of it is "defining each behavior of interest in terms of the behaviors of the same organism surrounding it." This gives one a self-correcting mechanism in ones approach to understanding -- the most important contribution of classical ethology. Add to it the basic knowledge we have of emotions and emotional development and you can have an outline of a meaningful perspective on learning and meaningful concept of "learning".

An Ethological Conceptualization of Learning: Learning in terms of the interrelated development of basic capacities.

Every significant behavior change is now thought to involve learning. Learning and innate aspects of behavioral change are now conceived of as partners in the developmental and adaptational process (Gould and Marler, 1987). They are not even thought to be clearly separable at this point in our understanding of human behavior (Anastasi). Their partnership usually occurs in such an intimate and close time frame that they cannot be contrasted. With regard to the most significant behavior changes, such as stage shifts in cognitive abilities, one cannot see the great extent to which each is involved, and it is impossible to say which is most important: Is whatever "pre-wiring" we have most important or is it what's acquired -- that which involves interaction with the environment and at the same time between our basic "capacities" -- that's most prominent? These are serious questions. And so are the more detailed questions: What is the initial expression of the most important innate action patterns? When do innate action patterns appear? If they are not all present at birth (AND I BELIEVE THEY ARE NOT), how do they manifest themselves as they emerge during ontogeny? AND: What are the basic capacities (if any) that have relatively constant characteristics or similar interrelationships across development? Which types of capabilities most reflect that which is accrued via experience and with development and what is the nature of the changes undergone?

Learning, like other topics in psychology, concerns behaviors that have innate and species-specific characteristics. Learning is frequently said to be "constrained by innate factors," but as far as developmental questions are concerned, it is IN FACT DEFINED in large part by such factors (Johnston, 1981). And, as such, it is involved in all the most significant behavioral changes. Learning as a topic involves the most "microscopic" look at behaviors, in the wider discussion of processes of significant behavior change. Learning may be the most important topic by far, for environmentally-induced behavioral change certainly seems to be key to quality adaptation in all areas of responding.

Learning may be defined as changes in those adaptational processes susceptible to experience and due to changes in these processes occurring singly and/or in an interactive manner. There is no pure acquisition (reality does not just progressively impinge itself) and there are no arbitrary acquisitions. Acquisitions must be retained. Clearly there are innate and species-typical processes involved, and fortunately for the human behavioral sciences, general laws to be found.

It should not be surprising to find that it is impossible to discuss learning in any detail or with any generality without asking what basic processes are involved in the bit-by-bit behavioral acquisitions which characterize learning. How many types of processes are there and what are their basic natures? I will try to outline what I see as the basic types of processes, their basic character, and which aspects of the processes remain relatively constant and which change systematically, reflecting what in fact has been accrued.

First, the organism always has perceptual biases and response biases. These are interrelated and both change significantly during development.* These related processes precede [other] cognition and cognitive processes, including the major aspect of cognitive processing -- representation (to be discussed soon). The proper understanding of these processes (perception and response biases) can come only with proper definition. And, objective definition is obtained only when the environmental and behavioral context in which the important features of these processes occur have been specified. Behaviors (OF THE SAME ORGANISM) preceding and those following a behavior of concern must be identified. This will become more and more important with ontogeny and will be true of the other processes to be discussed as well.

In addition to having perceptual biases and response biases, in general, we have memory. Memory at first seems to be of the immediate and may thus be said to have just a short-term aspect. But with experience, the organism interacting in consistent manners with the environment will begin to respond to structure and systematic change in the environment. This shows recognition memory, and soon recall, both characteristics of long-term memory. This capacity, like short-term memory, is limited, BUT INDEPENDENTLY (Brainerd and Kingma, 1985). After some point, "processing space" for short-term memory little influences the processing characteristics of long-term memory, though it is also limited at any given stage of development (the matter of stages to be discussed soon).

This is not all that happens. New response characteristics emerge. As structures and occurrences are recognized, new aspects of stimuli are related or are related more consistently (i.e. reacted to in a "different way"). This is not arbitrary. This may be best viewed as determined by new "perceptual biases" and related response biases. The most significant perceptual shifts, I believe, are the first occurrence in, and that which sets into motion, a new developmental stage. Yet this kind of perceptual shift occurs only every so often with regard to any given set of related stimuli to which we respond (Fischer and Pipp, 1984). There are possibly as few as five stages of development in major response areas (Freud, 1965; Ginsburg and Opper, 1978; Jesness, 1985).** How are acquired behavioral adaptations guided in the mean time?

At this point we could type different sets of behavior and note the characteristics of their changes, BUT this would violate the standards we have set for objective definition of a behavior-of-concern. We will be better off considering the basic processes we already have and look for further features of these that determine behavior change. One factor has to do with the fact that development of long-term memory takes time. And, the way it develops may show phases. Most important: There are aspects of what we recall that are worth keeping conscious. Consciousness requires response time and uses the scarce resources of short-term memory and much affects other responding. I would say this phenomenon of consciousness occurs for either of two reasons: (1) Further stimuli which are novel or of different varieties must be noted (and possibly, eventually recalled) and these are related to things already remembered (recognized or recalled) OR (2) things to be remembered in much the same WAY as past experiences (already remembered) will be encountered (i.e. similar environmental structures will be encountered (Griffin, 1981)). (Some of (1) and (2) is probably related to the fact that some stimuli impinge on us via less salient sensory modalities or through less salient combinations of modalities. These aspects of stimulation could become conscious later yet may still be related to some basically similar type of relationship we know (and can remember) when it has been found through other modalities.) The aspect of long-term memory of which we are at times able to be conscious is a good broad definition of representation. The nature of representation will change much during development and some of that of which one is conscious as a child will become aspects of awareness or totally automatic in the older child or adult. We still must include these aspects in our understanding of representation. We now need to ask what phases there may be in the development of representation, this important aspect of long-term memory and the most important capacity in significant behavioral change involving experience.

First: In a given type of circumstance (or "set of circumstances") it may take time to usefully retain and represent all the necessary static and dynamic aspects of the situation. To say this in more reductionistic terms: It will take time for all the stimuli of different salience to occur a sufficient number of times, given our perceptual/response biases, and time for them to be responded to consistently. An entire phase of development within every stage could be related to such developments AND, as indicated before, such may well vary in timing somewhat based on the salience of sets of stimuli involved in different circumstances. Second: Next, one's attending (and responding) selectively to certain aspects of immediate situations (ultimately related to perceptual/response biases) eventually may allow one to relate new things separated in space and time. This is another characteristic of memory and retention and eventually of representation. The latter may show two aspects: (1) an ability to imagine sequences of occurrences (the more important ones often involving your own behaviors or potential behaviors) and (2) an ability to see similarities across circumstances (Lucariello and Nelson, 1985). These two reciprocal aspects of memory development and representation can result in there being a second phase during each major stage of cognitive development. This too, for adaptive reasons (and for adaptive purposes), takes time. I do not have the space to speculate on the details here. In any case, all changes in representation will be manifested by systematic alterations in perceptual/response characteristics.

Now, finally, I believe one must discuss stages. The processes of memory and perception and the response biases and differences in stimulus salience, all already discussed, cannot (I believe) account for the progressive, hierarchical nature of development (Bowlby, 1982). Development has some invariant stages (descriptively speaking) in which some problems involving representation cannot be understood or cannot be understood reliably. Furthermore, it is just such reliability or consistency which is necessary for the further development of long-term memory processes, including representation. How does one get such consistency, adaptively, AND what is the parsimonious outlook? My answer is that we have stages, defined by new perceptual/response biases, emerging during ontogeny. Such perceptual shifts within an adaptive behavioral complex can have powerful effects indeed, and especially so when it is proposed that the changes in learning also involve progressive memory developments (with phases). The perceptual biases, as indicated before, may differ from one set of related stimuli to another and thus the timing of stages may vary to a degree for different types of responses. It would also seem appropriate to look at this in terms of the timing of aspects of stages. Although what the "sets of related objects" are has not been well delineated and how the timing of developments may vary between them is not clear, there are indications of some common synchronies and some general (overall) stages seem to be defined by these (Corrigan, 1983). In any case, the perceptual biases trigger a series of effects, given some of the more consistent characteristics of memory, and these result in a new level of representation and consciousness of new problems. All this allows for another series of developmental changes, such as already described. It should be clear from the outline of ontogeny given above that a general principle applies to learning: Behavioral development involves selective adaptation and eventually consistency of response. A variety of experiences will, in the normal course of adaptation, all be encountered even as consistencies are found.

I believe one can point to two aspects of behavior (broadly speaking), spoken of above, that change most in their characteristics during development: (1) the set of perceptual/response biases operative and (2) the elaborateness and precision found in representation. The changes in these capacities are systematically related. A MAJOR CONSISTENCY throughout development seems to exist with respect to short-term memory. While this type of memory may vary with development by 20-30% in quantitative capacity in terms of the number of "chunks" that can be dealt with "deliberately" (increasing with development), this change does not seem tremendously significant (Case et al., 1982; Dempster, 1981). It is clearly not much that's most salient that we can process at one time even late in development. This is especially startling given the large quantitative differences over development in the detail we respond to and in the length of sequences of responses we exhibit. "Quantitative capacity" may be roughly synonymous with what's often viewed as "working memory", if this is defined as that that we are conscious of in a given situation and at a given moment. But this has little to do with information processing overall. There is always awareness beyond consciousness (in the narrow sense) in significant situations and much processing of long-term memory (some of this related to representation) occurs outside normal awareness.***

Other characteristics of memory change in a manner adaptively congruent with changes in perceptual/response biases and with the changing nature of representation during each stage or phase. These changes should have less specific effects on significant learning and should be of a less radical nature. These changes will be definable in terms of the effects they have on responding.

FOOTNOTES: of "perceptual biases", but this would be misleading because I believe that modern conceptualizations of the field of perception are arbitrarily (unsystematically) constrained.
 * I would say at the outset that I use an unconventional definition

phases of the Preoperational Period to be stages in the same significant sense as the S-M Period, the C-O Period and the F-O Period are stages.
 * With reference to Piaget's theory, I should note that I consider his 2

 * Of course psychologists may develop awareness and consciousness of things not normally subject to such through unique and sustained observations. Obviously, much of this will be awareness, etc. of things as they are for the child during development and how this fits into the "bigger picture".

REFERENCES:

Anastasia, A. Heredity, environment, and the question "How?" Psychological Review, 65, 197-208.

Bowlby, John (1982). Attachment, 2nd ed. New York: Basic Books.

Brainerd, C.J. and Kingma, J. (1985). On the Independence of Short-Term Memory and Working Memory in Cognitive Development. Cognitive Psychology, 17, 210-247.

Case, R., Kurland, D.M., and Goldberg, J. (1982). Operational efficiency and the growth of short-term memory span. Jour. of Experimental Child Psychology, 33, 386-404.

Corrigan, R. (1983). The Development of Representational Skills. New Directions for Child Development, 21,51-64.

Dempster, F.N. (1981). Sources of Memory Span Differences. Psychological Bulletin, 89, 63-100.

Fischer, Kurt W. and Pipp, Sandra (1984). Processes of Cognitive Development: Optimal Level and Skill Acquisition. In: R. Sternberg, (Ed.), Mechanisms of Cognitive Development. New York: W.H. Freeman & Co.

Freud, Sigmund (1965). Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality. New York: Avon Books.

Ginsburg, H. and Opper, S. (1978). Piaget's theory of Intellectual development, 2nd ed., Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall.

Gould, James L. and Marler, P. (1987). Learning by Instinct. Scientific American, January.

Griffin, Donald R. (1981). The Question of Animal Awareness. New York: Rockefeller Press.

Jesness, B. (1985). A Human Ethogram ... , Key Chapters and Sections. Indexed in Resources in Education, Nov.

Jesness, B. (1986). Info.-Processing Theories and Per- spectives on development ... . Indexed in Resources in Education, May.

The author should be contacted for a few important editorial corrections. email me at braloj53@hotmail.com
 * THE LAST TWO SOURCES SHOULD BE READ TOGETHER.**

Johnston, Timothy D. (1981). Contrasting Approaches to a Theory of Learning. The Behavioral and Brain Sciences , 4, 125-173.

Lucariello, J. and Nelson, K. (1985). Slot-Filler Categories as Memory Organizers for Young Children. Develop- mental Psychology, 21(2), 272-282.

--- ---

For MUCH MORE on this method, perspective and approach see my larger papers Click THIS LINK http://cyberper.cnc.net/myLargePapers.htm to find out how to obtain them.

-- Lorlarson 11 Nov 2005

William Thorpe
User:Bendybendy has removed William Thorpe from Category:Ethologists. I was just doing category work in that category, so if this is correct or not correct, please help fix it.Pschemp | Talk 23:31, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Looks like there is more than one William Thorpe. The link here should probably be fixed. Pschemp | Talk 04:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

 * This is the one:
 * His full name apparently is William Homan Thorpe, a name that seems to be used for him everywhere, so the article should probably be William Homan Thorpe. Thanks for pointing out the mistake! - Samsara contrib talk 04:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Fixing the lack of practical information
No resources were used in this spurt of ideas. The lack of practical information needs to be fixed. Using a search engine can help get information from real ethologists. For the moment, however, I suggest the following. Behavior is action and reaction. Actions are aligned with goals, whether the goals are cognitively derived (thanks to the cortex) or "natural". There are some common behaviors across animal species and hence some common goals. Both a human and a cat stretches and yawns, as do many other animals, however no plant has been observed to yawn to my knowledge. Perhaps the best way to go about presenting practical information would be to go through the evolutionary tree and discuss the common behaviors that each animal under animalia displays; hence, the common goals would also be a point of discussion. It is likely that such discussions will include terms from the biological evolution article and phrases such as "survival of the fit". If at some point in the tree it looks like a behavior is possessed by an entire phyla, the behavior will be discussed on the page for phyla instead of being repeatedly included on the individual species pages. Answering the four questions on the page at the moment seems like a good idea if implemented on each branch of the evolutionary tree. Comments? -- kanzure 13:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Etology?
Am I the only one finding the Etology article a complete nonsense? I always thought that "Ethology" and "Etology" are synonyms. Secondly, I have very strong doubts that "e-" is a Greek word for "internet", as the article claims. However, English is not my first language, so I am putting this in question. In my opinion this needs a very fast clarification, because in some languages the name of ethology is written without "h" and this article could cause heavy misinterpretations. --Jakup r 17:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I did a quick "Google research" and this may be the source: http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?cat=2&id=9858 ("By definition, Etology is a noun defining the science of the Internet.") --Jakup r 17:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

 * PLEASE CONSIDER DELETION OF etology AS IT APPEARS TO BE A MARKETTING COINED NAME OF A COMPANY/WEBSITE. The etymology is fake. The name is composed of etos and the suffix. Not of e and the suffix. And in all Romance languages ethology is spelled etología, etologie, etc. Google shows many misspellings in English, probably due to translation from other languages.
 * It belongs only in a catalog of commercial names with pun flavor. Cf ethology and etiology. Jclerman 17:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm no expert, and I've never posted on a discussion page, but shouldn't the top "ethology" section say "etymology"? It seems to more be discussing the origins of the word than the behavior of the animal of ethology. User:Cdubulous 11:04, 17 May 2007

Scope of list of ethologists
I added Robert Ardrey, since his book has inspired many to study ethology. I wonder if some other popular advocates of ethology, such as dog trainer Patricia B. McConnell, should be added as well. Such advocates will be the first and perhaps only exposure many people have to the field.

--Coloradoauthor 23:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Major Update

 * Hi, I've performed a [| major mod] on the article. I have added many practical information, images and examples, although there is still much to be done. I'm not a native English speaker, and I was translating and partially merging from an exstensive and well-documented article I wrote on the subject in Italian, which I licensed via CC. There may be grammatical errors and/or some sentences with an unusual structure -- sorry, I did this quite in a hurry ;). Please revise it. It's looking better now, isn't it? --Outspan 11:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Animal behavior vs. ethology
I don't think animal behavior should redirect here. It would be like redirecting animal to zoology. Ethology still deserves its own article, but animal behavior should be addressed separately. Richard001 01:05, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know, the two things are practically the same -- ethology is the scientific approach to the study of animal behavior so all the scientific facts should go under ethology. What would you put in animal behavior instead? -- Out span  [ talk · contribs ] 07:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the Encyclopedia Britannica articles for example. They have a short one on ethology and a much larger one on animal behavior. Richard001 00:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I only use Italian encyclopedias ;) what's written in there? -- Out span  [ talk · contribs ] 07:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Animal behavior (33 pages) Ethology (very brief). Richard001 08:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is definitely an error to have "Animal Learning" redirected here. Animal learning, as discussed in any introductory psychology textbook or in the scientific literature, is the study of basic principles of learning as independently of the species of animal being studied as possible. T. E. Whalen, 27 November 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.92.60.20 (talk) 17:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree, and Britannica has a expert written article on animal learning too if anyone needs some inspiration (they also seem to have a brand new one on animal behaviour, which is also pretty good). Redirecting animal learning/Learning here is no better than redirecting to learning, so the redirects are probably best deleted. I'm still sure separate articles are better. This one would discuss the history of ethology more and go into more details on methodology. It will be a bit of work to split them though, and as always there is a poverty of editors... Richard001 (talk) 09:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Ethology, aetiology, etymology, entomology...
...or Lat. ethologia, ætiologia, etymologia, entomologia—don’t confuse them. I’ve just removed an incorrectly put out spelling aethology from this article, most certainly inspired by having confused the term with etiology, also known as aetiology.

Reference: Ethology (this), Etiology, Etymology, Entomology.

—6birc, 18:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Hatnote
I removed the hatnote - they are designed to distinguish between possibly confused existing pages. Having a redlinked hatnote is unnecessary and silly. If the page existed for Animal Behavior (journal), a hatnote is an excellent idea, but it is not useful to navigate to a non-existent page. WLU (talk) 20:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Revenge
The article says: "Of course, not all behaviours are altruistic, as shown in the table below. Notably, revengeful behaviour is claimed to have been observed exclusively in Homo sapiens." Is this really true? I remember when I was a kid, my friend used to throw his cat around and really make it angry. When he left, the cat would take revenge by pissing on his bed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.45.5.250 (talk) 01:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I have to agree, I actually used to have a cat that would claw the backs of your legs if you scolded it, the second you turned your back. Animals generally aren't maliciously revengeful the way many people seem to expect, but I have heard various accounts of other primates enganging in activities that were pretty clearly meant to be revenge. Wish I could remember where. But the sentence only states that revenge is "claimed" to be "observed" exclusively in H. sapiens, so it looks okay the way it is, at least for now. 97.104.210.67 (talk) 02:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a documented story of a vengeful camel. Wapondaponda (talk) 03:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Elephants don't forget. Some don't forgive. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:28, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Article class change
I changed the class templates today to C class from Start class. This is clearly not a starting article though it has serious issues, not ready for B class. It uses a minimal number of sources and has limited citations of same. It appears that its organization could bear some attention and its at the point where redundant material could more easily be cut but the sourcing appears to be its biggest difficulty.Trilobitealive (talk) 03:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Notable ethologists without links
What is the reason for adding names to the list of notable ethologists without links ? I haven't checked all of them. But at least two seem to be just good narrow-specialized researches. Томми Нёрд (talk) 20:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I agree, it's not something I'd do: but I guess it's an invitation to someone to write an article about them some day. seglea (talk) 20:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Alex the Parrot.jpg
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Good reference
Alcock, John (2003): A textbook history of animal behaviour. Animal Behaviour 65: 3–10.

Traces the history of behavioral biology, from classical ethology to sociobiology and neuroethology. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 01:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I think there ought to be a book list and I have just added a book which looks as though it should be useful and fun. Budhen (talk) 11:21, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Definition?
The introduction should state a formal definition of Ethology. I browsed to this article knowing nothing about what is ethology, and it is still unclear at the 50,000-foot level. 128.227.82.167 (talk) 14:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Taxis
Taxis is one of the most important parts of ethology. It isn't mentioned once. Geo-taxis Chemo-taxis Photo-taxis Thigmo-taxis etc. Please rectify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaplani99 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Clarification needed
My interest in ethology is John Bowlby's use of it to help understand human behavior concerning infant attachment. What degree of relationship exists between animals (especially mammals) and humans? I ask because some Attachment theorists are considering dropping Bowlby's use of ethology from their understanding of attachment. Margaret9mary (talk) 03:28, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Releaser
I see releaser goes to a page on chemical signals. As it is such an important term for ethology, I would suggest that page becomes a disambig page, with links to releaser (chemistry) and releaser (ethology). Otherwise, we could just create the latter page for ethology. It's needed. Macdonald-ross (talk) 19:31, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Replacing the Zoology template
As an ethologist, I feel that the article on Ethology deserves its own template rather than being considered as just a sub-branch of zoology. I have created an Ethology template (below) and I propose to replace the Zoology template with this. Any comments are welcome.

Category:Biology templates Category:Animal templates Category:Exclude in print

DrChrissy (talk) 16:21, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Definition of Ethology
Having worked in animal behaviour for over 20 years, I always thought that the definition of 'Ethology' included a component of the animal being in its natural environment. e.g.

The scientific study of animal behavior, especially as it occurs in a natural environment

The study of animal behavior with emphasis on the behavioral patterns that occur in natural environments.

The scientific and objective study of animal behavior especially under natural conditions My own behavioural work has usually involved farm, laboratory and zoo animals. The vast majority of these animals are not in their natural environments, (although it could be argued that because some of these animals exist only under these conditions, they ARE the natural conditions). I do not consider myself to be an ethologist but an animal behaviouralist. I propose that the definition in Ethology be changed to be more accurate. I would also like to propose that Animal Behaviour is listed as a seperate page rather than re-directed to Ethology.DrChrissy (talk) 16:47, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Correct terminology
Is it correct to use 'newborns' in the following sentence in the article, or should it be 'newly-hatched'? A notable example of a releaser is the beak movements in many bird species performed by the newborns, which stimulates the mother's regurgitating process to feed her offspring.DrChrissy (talk) 18:06, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you are absolutely right!  Lova Falk     talk   18:38, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Imitation - is the example correct?
In the sub-section on 'Imitation' the example given is the widely reported washing of food by Japanese macaques. But, imitation is an exact replication of the behaviour performed by the demonstrating animals. My understanding is that this is NOT the case with the macaques. Rather, this is a good example of observational learning or emulation. DrChrissy (talk) 18:08, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Ivan Pavlov
Should Ivan Pavlov be included on the list of ethologists? Almost all articles I have ever read on him begin something like 'Ivan Petrovich Pavlov was a famous Russian physiologist.' I am well aware of his ground breaking research on classical conditioning and I would not wish to take away any acknowledgement of his work in animal behaviour, but was he really an 'ethologist'? DrChrissy (talk) 16:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I wondered the same thing, but underneath the header is the line: "People who have made notable contributions to ethology (many are comparative psychologists)" and then I decided he could be in the list. Also because he is in the WP cat. ethologists. However, it seems that the header needs to be changed.  Lova Falk     talk   17:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I suspect my own use of the word 'ethology' and 'ethologist' differs quite markedly from that of many on here, but I get the feeling that raising the issue of 'naturalness of behaviour' would be a massive task that should have been discussed at the formation of the page.  Thanks for you clarification. DrChrissy (talk) 17:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

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A Note on Citations
Hello. I am a 4th Year Biology student at Memorial University in Newfoundland, Canada. After reviewing this page, it has come to my attention that there have been no editor comments from other contributors since ~2007, indicating that some updated information and citations would most likely be available. Due to the nature of this broad-type article, I think it would be helpful for contributors to delve into potential new sources so that more of the material written in this article can be cited and deemed reputable. I will be looking into this over the next few weeks, and would appreciate any feedback from other fellow Wikipedians with knowledge in this area! Cheers. -- Js7581 (talk) 15:51, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, the most recent discussion was 2012, but that's nothing to quibble over. There is certainly ample room for improvement and updating. There are editors watching the article, so please feel free to improve and expand according to reliable sources. If you have any queries, or if there are any doubts as to your content elaboration, there's always someone happy to help out. Happy editing! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:17, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much I appreciate your input! I will make sure I post in the Talk page before making any changes! Thanks again. Js7581 (talk) 00:56, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Section on Captivity vs. Natural state
In the header there is at least one line addressing the fact that ethology especially deals with animals in nature and not in captivity.

This theme deserves a topic of itself, namely where it is explained why ethology focusses on animals in their natural habitat as opposed to the more easily observable animals in captivity.

This then could possibly also provide room for a short exposition on the difficulty that ethology faces in the research of human behaviour.

As of yet I don't have the research and sources at hand, but will try to make a proposal as I find the time, if no major objections are found. FreieFF (talk) 16:05, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Animal behavior deserves an article
There should be separate articles for animal behaviour and ethology the way there are separate articles for history and history of the world. The Language Learner (talk) 16:06, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Beginning of this article is a mess
The beginning of this article is a mess. It says that ethologists study animal behaviour in both natural and laboratory conditions, but, strictly speaking, ethology is the study of animal behaviour in natural environments. It refers to behaviourism, but behaviourism is really quite different to ethology, as that does study animals in laboratories, such as rats in Skinner boxes. YTKJ (talk) 20:34, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Spelling Behavior or Behaviour.
Behavior or Behaviour? Pick one throughout Wikipedia and stick with it. OMG, not even consistent in one paragraph of this article. 73.226.154.233 (talk) 07:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * "throughout Wikipedia" is not going to happen. MOS:ENGVAR allows different varieties of English to be used in different articles. Within any given article, the variety should be consistent. This article has been tagged since 2016 as using British English, so "behaviour" is appropriate here. Just plain Bill (talk) 10:51, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ethology as a lemma
Ethology ≈ ex - e≈ environment plus five physical media, ground, atmosphere, water, organic matter and the rest, known or not - time havoc - h≈ habitats accerted vis, latin language for power in physics, observed corpus, cfr. Archimaedes and Newton - organisms symbiosis - cfr. Ethos and aethics where a≈ approved, accerted, adverted, and so on, meaning already experimented before - plus logos≈ logics, organisms, gnosis, ontology, summary. Therefore ethology is not just about animalia, zoology, but also about other organism cfr. Cavalier Smith. Sabrina.ponsi (talk) 09:42, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Lead image is biased
There are an unlikely 15 micro-images in the lead image, far too many, probably, for many smaller devices (or older readers).

Leaving that aside for the moment, 9 of 15 are of mammals, and 13 of 15 are of vertebrates. There is just one insect (the honeybee) of the 15, and one millipede, making 2 arthropods. No other phyla are represented. This is a highly skewed selection from the many animal phyla; equally, given the large number of species of insect, it is an extremely skewed selection from the many animal species. Ironic that the image is "sold" on Commons as being less species-ist.

I'm actually quite unsure that a composite of such small images even "works" as a lead image. Better may be to present one or two images of something that is certainly animal behaviour. Maybe the honeybee's dance; and maybe a pair of birds displaying or fighting, something like that. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:04, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

 * With the goals of readability on small devices, indicating the diversity of animal behaviour, and a glimpse of the taxonomic range involved, I've put up an image of the waggle dance (insects), courtship in grebes (birds), and rutting (mammals). Happy to discuss but it's certainly far closer to those three goals than what was there before. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:56, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ethology