text:
Talk:ISO/IEC 8859-1

windows-1252
Why does windows-1252 redirect to this page? 1252 is NOT the same as iso-8859-1. Redirecting references to windows-1252 to this page (I think) reinforces the mistaken impression that 1252 and 8859-1 are the same (and they are most definitely not). Perhaps this deserves an entire page, but Microsoft's loose labeling of email with (close but not exact) MIME character sets is a BIG problem.
 * You're free to make the relevant section a (linked) article of its own. The section however tries to make it clear that although both, CP1252 and Latin-1, are supersets of ISO/IEC 8859-1, they differ in 8x and 9x area. The German version takes a little different approach in emphasizing the differences.

 * The advantage of keeping CP-1252 and MacRoman on the ISO-8859-1 page is that differences can be made more clear. And Windows (and IIS) misreports CP-1252 as ISO-8859-1 by default, so most people falsely assume CP-1252 *is* ISO-8859-1. Latin-1 of course is a valid implementation of ISO 8859-1, as it is nothing but an alias for ISO-8859-1. Jor 13:24, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Latin-1 of course is a valid implementation of ISO 8859-1, as it is nothing but an alias for ISO-8859-1. Wrong. ISO/IEC 8859-1 (the standard) only specifies the characters for the 20-7E and A0-FF byte ranges. The characters for bytes 00-1F and 7F-9F are left undefined. The ISO-8859-1 character map registered with the IANA fills the missing spots with the C0 and C1 control sets (defined elsewhere), thus covering 00-FF. This map's approved aliases are: ISO_8859-1:1987, iso-ir-100, ISO_8859-1, ISO-8859-1 (preferred MIME name), latin1, l1, IBM819, CP819, and csISOLatin1. - mjb 22:07, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * So remove the dash. Latin1 *is* a valid alias for ISO-8859-1, which is an encoding based on ISO 8859-1. Jor 22:17, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * like it or not in the internet world now ISO-8859-1 is always interpreted as windows-1252. stuff from windows-1252 was being used by editors here with no reported problems all the time before the switch to utf-8. Sometimes you just have to accept that formal standards and reality aren't the same thing. Plugwash 6 July 2005 10:53 (UTC)

"However, the draft HTML 5 specification requires that documents advertised as ISO-8859-1 actually be parsed with the Windows-1252 encoding." The citation does not make any indication of whether or not this statement is true. 194.232.128.102 (talk) 14:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The current HTML5 draft does mention it insection 8.2.2.2 . Of course these things are subject to change at any time. Plugwash (talk) 17:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * More than a year on, the current HTML5 draft still does not mention it. I feel it is unlikely to change back. As it stands this sentence has been promoting wrong information to everyone who did not check the references for over a year. I recommend removing or at least rewording this sentence to show that it is no longer true. Greatrsg (talk) 09:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I just wanted to agree with the many other commenters here who also seem to have noticed iso8859-1 is not cp1252. WHATWG cannot define that and they don't. They merely say that a User Agent could render charset iso8859-1 as cp1252. cp1252 is not a strict superset of iso8859-1 nor is iso8859-1 a strict subset of cp1252. They are not equivalent. Also any string encoded as iso8859-1 is validly encoded as well utf-8 (a canonical utf-8 string, in NFC) that is _not_ true of many possible strings encoded with cp1252. Essentially, WHATWG is saying is there exists this pervasive bug, try doing it this way. They are not saying they are not and cannot say: they are the same thing. They are saying if an application says iso8859-1 in this place, perhaps don't entirely trust them. Assume you could assume it cp1252 by mistake (rather than say assume it is utf-8 by mistake). This whole iso8859-1 is cp1252 is totally a wrong read of that standard. -- Garick 108.16.106.24 (talk) 18:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

correct quotation marks
In this respect ISO-8859-1 was't worse than a typewriter, or am I mistaken? So, only special characters for typesetting are missing from ISO--8859-1 (also ligatures, like ff, fi, ...). Pjacobi 23:02, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * You're not making yourself very clear, please elaborate. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   23:42, 2004 Sep 17 (UTC)

As far as I know, mechanical or electrical typewriters, didn't provide symbols for typesetting either. They are or were lacking the different quotation marks, different length (typographic) hyphens, ligated versions of "ff" etc. Not that it would make much sense on a monospacing machine. Only the specialised input machines for typesettings did have all those.

So, when setting coded character sets for use on computers, I don't think that the lack of those signs can be viewed as not supporting any languages which would use these signs in typesetting. Typesetting was done using specialised markup, shortcuts or automatic conversion (as done by troff).

Even today, Unicode considers some typesetting related issues to be out of scope for coded character sets, a step back from the Adobe approach, which even did put some "ff" ligatures in the "Expert Character Set".

In summary, I consider the remark "missing correct quotation marks" to be slightly misleading.

Pjacobi 12:51, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * In German (and I believe other languages as well) it is considered an orthographic error to use something like "speech" instead of „speech“, although »speech«, of which Latin1 is capable, can be acceptable, too. Width of dashes/hyphens and interword/intercharacter spaces is a different story completely. Crissov 18:40, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * No it is considered bad typography. In handwriting or as typoscript, it is perfectly acceptable. -- Pjacobi 19:35, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Especially in handwritten German it is not acceptable, ask any German teacher or the Duden. You could compare it to ")foo)" or "(foo(", which no-one would claim correct. It can only be acceptable in technically limited environments. In English "foo" and “foo” are propably similar enough.

 * The Duden is no authority on glyph shapes. Using the " as glyph shape for both punctation characters 'german begin of direct speak' and 'german end of direct speak' is no othographic error, at least not in Hamburg, Germany. Likewise the Duden doesn't regulate the glyph shapes for small "s" and "t", where there is much variation in German handwriting. Pjacobi 18:16, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Mac-Roman
Is it really best to remove the comparative chart between Mac-Roman and ISO-8859-1? Is it really true that Mac-Roman has no relation to ISO 8859-1 or ISO-8859-1? Also, there appears to be hyphenation differences throughout this page (e.g. MacRoman vs. Mac-Roman, CP1252 vs. CP-1252, etc.). GPHemsley→◊ 00:50, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

 * The Macintosh Roman character sets, Mac-Roman and MacRoman, both inherit the ASCII characters, but have nothing else in common with ISO-8859-1. Mac-Roman was introduced with the first Mac in 1984, so I don't think it could possibly be a descendent of ISO Latin.  MacRoman changed one character from Mac-Roman (added the Euro).  I'll update the confusing text in this article.  —Michael Z. 2005-03-29 01:30 Z

 * iirc they do however cover much the same characters which should probablly be mentioned and possiblly detailed somewhere.

lead section
the previous lead section was a one liner far shorter than Guide_to_writing_better_articles reccomends. Futhermore it didn't even introduce two important variations (iso-8859-1 and windows-1252) which redirect here. I tried to expand it and was reverted by mjb (whose removals i have noe reverted back. mjb claimed it was redundant which is true but Guide_to_writing_better_articles clearly states "If the article is long (more than one page), the remainder of the opening paragraph should summarize it." a summary is by definition redundant with the more detailed information in the rest of the article. Plugwash 6 July 2005 10:15 (UTC)

 * But your "summary" was terrible. It introduced concepts and dove into technical details that are not required to achieve a basic understanding of the ISO/IEC 8859-1 standard. I'm not saying the article can't use another sentence in the intro, but if you re-read the article from the beginning, it sounds very sloppy when you immediately start talking about there being no control codes and certain code value ranges being reserved/unassigned — these topics were not even introduced yet and seem completely out of context at that point. I would also disagree with taking too strict an interpretation of the style guide; an intro paragraph does not need to summarize every topic that is mentioned in the article; if it can't introduce a topic without repeating or requiring one to read the whole article, then further simplification of the statements is advisable. — mjb 6 July 2005 11:12 (UTC)

ISO-8859-1 and windows-1252 redirect here and are not just misspellings so they need to be introduced in the summary. If we don't do so then we are misleading users into thinking there are the same thing as ISO 8859-1. If you can think of a way of doing so without mentioning technical details then go for it. Plugwash 6 July 2005 11:14 (UTC)

 * Ah, see, that's the real issue; there are these redirects, and there is discussion in the article about these oft-confused character maps that are based on the standard. We can offer the reader this information without getting into any details that would require them to have already read the article. I've put one in, but perhaps it could be further improved. — mjb 6 July 2005 11:29 (UTC)

On another topic, do you have an opinion about "maintained by ISO and IEC"? I think it sounds awkward to say "ISO and IEC" rather than "the ISO and the IEC," but it seems equally awkward to put two "the"s in there. Is there a policy or style guide for using definite articles with organizations known by their initials? (The main point I was trying to make in the first sentence was that for a while, the standard was just "ISO 8859-1" and this is what everyone knows it as, but at some point the IEC became involved and any formal citation, especially an encyclopedia entry that has a responsibility not to perpetuate common errors, must say "ISO/IEC 8859-1".) — mjb 6 July 2005 11:34 (UTC)

Character table format
I've been seeing more and more 8-bit character table formats popping up in various articles. There are currently three different styles in use on this page alone. ASCII has two more, and Code page 437 has yet another. I think the template-based approach in the Code page 437 article is a good idea, but I'm not sure it's flexible enough to accommodate the kind of ad-hoc linking we have going on. Also, the auto-scaled 100% table widths are not ideal for all media. Other issues to consider are where to link each character to, and how much info to try to cram into each cell. We are discussing character linking over on Talk:Unicode. Questions to consider are below. — mjb 6 July 2005 12:02 (UTC)

 * Should we standardize the 8-bit character code chart formats?
 * What info should the charts contain?
 * What should the charts look like? Are column/row headings important?
 * Where should character entries link to? (see Talk:Unicode)
 * What's the ideal representation of things like space, soft hyphen, and control codes?
 * What about difference highlighting? Keep?
 * Can we achieve these goals with a template?
 * my preffered way to handle character linking is to just let the character link to a page titled with itself and then redirect it to the most appropriate place. This allows all references to a character to be updated to point to the same place at once as well as allowing users to enter those characters through the search box and be taken straight to the appropriate place. Plugwash 6 July 2005 22:54 (UTC)
 * Well, we could use templates, but I'm not sure the approach in Code page 437 is the best. There Template:chset-cell is used, which looks like this:
 * Those hexdecimal character references are infact converted to UTF-8 by the Wikimedia software.
 * Furthermore it uses Template:chset-tableformat, Template:chset-left, Template:chset-ctrl and all are put into a table by hand. We could do the same and better with something like Template:8-bit charset, which would look be used something like this:
 * where the templates contain just the hexcodes, e.g. Template:C0 control codes (Control character):
 * Oh, I just realized that we would have to take special care of control codes (and a few others), because they do not work with links and display, maybe:
 * I think giving alternatives with &124; does not work (well) in templates. Anyhow, the 8-bit charset template would then build a 16×16 table out of the 256+1 arguments it recieved, would be put into the caption . How that table should look (hex, dec, oct and/or bin headers, U+ codes [probably by reusing Template:chset-cell]) is open to discussion, but all those codepage and charset tables would look the same. The then unnecessary chset-* templates should be deleted. Christoph Päper 7 July 2005 15:46 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just realized that we would have to take special care of control codes (and a few others), because they do not work with links and display, maybe:
 * I think giving alternatives with &124; does not work (well) in templates. Anyhow, the 8-bit charset template would then build a 16×16 table out of the 256+1 arguments it recieved, would be put into the caption . How that table should look (hex, dec, oct and/or bin headers, U+ codes [probably by reusing Template:chset-cell]) is open to discussion, but all those codepage and charset tables would look the same. The then unnecessary chset-* templates should be deleted. Christoph Päper 7 July 2005 15:46 (UTC)
 * I think giving alternatives with &124; does not work (well) in templates. Anyhow, the 8-bit charset template would then build a 16×16 table out of the 256+1 arguments it recieved, would be put into the caption . How that table should look (hex, dec, oct and/or bin headers, U+ codes [probably by reusing Template:chset-cell]) is open to discussion, but all those codepage and charset tables would look the same. The then unnecessary chset-* templates should be deleted. Christoph Päper 7 July 2005 15:46 (UTC)
 * I think giving alternatives with &124; does not work (well) in templates. Anyhow, the 8-bit charset template would then build a 16×16 table out of the 256+1 arguments it recieved, would be put into the caption . How that table should look (hex, dec, oct and/or bin headers, U+ codes [probably by reusing Template:chset-cell]) is open to discussion, but all those codepage and charset tables would look the same. The then unnecessary chset-* templates should be deleted. Christoph Päper 7 July 2005 15:46 (UTC)

History of CP1252
I'm having a hard time finding what year Microsoft introduced code page 1252. I'm particularly interested in MS's support for the curved apostrophe and quotation marks ‘ ’ “ ”. The best I could find so far was "around 1986". — Hippietrail 01:41, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * my guess is it came in with the windows concept of ansi code pages. I don't know how far back that dates though (p.s. i notice that whatever font is used for standard wikipedia text doesn't seem to differentiate between the opening and closing quotes but the font i see in the edit box does). Plugwash 02:09, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Minor point of interest is that the IANA did not accept Windows-1252 in its charset registry until early 2000, based on a proposal made in December 1999. The other Windows-125x code pages were accepted by the IANA in 1996 after being proposed by someone at Microsoft's Russian branch. — mjb 03:00, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * And windows-874 still isn't in the IANAs list despite being actively used by at least outlook 2000, i pointed this out to the iana-charsets list but they didn't seem to care. Plugwash 08:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge request
Someone tagged the article with a merge request. They apparently did not realize that this article forked off of the ISO/IEC 8859-1 article a while ago. Please present a case for the merge or the request will be removed. — mjb 03:00, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

 * it was part of a mass split done a while back by a fairly new user that created a LOT of small ugly stubs. i've linked all the merge tags to a proposal at the main ISO 8859 talk page. Please comment there if you don't wan't me to go ahead with the mass re-merging. Plugwash 17:16, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

 * These should NOT be remerged. They are (were) separate for a reason: ISO/IEC 8859-n is in no case identical to ISO-8859-n (when both exist, which is not always the case). These entries should be split again, with appropriate cross-references. Keka (who happens to have been involved with character set standarisation for many years), 2006-04-23.

 * True in a sense but you could say the same about say jpeg and jfif. One is the formal standard left incomplete by standards body politics. The other is the equivilent real standard in use. Also in most cases the IANA defines ISO_8859-? the same as ISO-8859-? and an underscore is the standard substitute for a space where space can't be used. Plugwash 15:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Related character maps- link to a disambiguation page
In the table in the section "Related character maps", at position (-4, 8-) in the table, the table links to the disambiguation page for index (It says "IND"). This shouldn't happen. However, I have abolutely no idea what kind of index it's referring to, so I didn't change it. Could somebody who knows more about this please change it to link to the specific type of index that it refers to? E946 04:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The two pipe symbols
In the character chart, both the character | (value 7C) and the character ¦ (value A6) linked to the article about Pipe_(computing); but as far as I can see, that article only talks about the character | (7C).

I have changed both links to Vertical bar, which I believe gives more relevant information. --Oz1cz 14:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Line Feed / Newline
Why is there no encoding for "line feed / new line" in this standard? How does that work? 83.118.38.37 09:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There are control characters from 00 to 1F designed for functions like this. 2A01:119F:21D:7900:E56A:6E91:A341:16E1 (talk) 18:49, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

ISO 8859-1 vs. UTF-8
I think someone of knowledge in this field should write a section with that name.

OK, the background: I installed a server software distro (Apache2Triad) and everything was working just fine and so I copied some folder with webpages in it I had on another server (XAMPP) and to my shock and appallment this thing was displaying letters with diacritics like all those crappy sites from 1990's, that I've noticed are not even capable of displaying apostrophes on pages in English. And I've noticed a coincidence of pages not being able to display apostrophes (nor any diacritics) and the page having a charset like ISO 123456 or something (instead of UTF-8) in its HEAD section.

And yeah, when I changed the line specifying ISO 8859-1 to UTF-8 (in the httpd.conf file) I got all my diacritics (namely, Latvian) and nothing appears to have been broken.

So, basically, why would anyone need a charset like this when there's UTF-8, what are the inclusion criteria for languages (lol), it's not that I would have any issues with a charset not displaying Latvian diacritics, but there are carons (š) in Czech, for instance, and macrons (ā) in Japanese rōmaji script, and those are like legit languages (not to mention the apostrophes) so, basically, the article seriously lacks some rationale section as to why would anyone use this encoding. 354d 22:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the article ISO/IEC 8859 might answer your concerns! Theo 194.222.199.109 17:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

i believe in the standard of no standardization —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.121.199.103 (talk) 20:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

ISO-8859-1 table
This page is about ISO/IEC 8859-1. I think the single character table on this page should not represent the ISO-8859-1 printable character and control character set. 92.78.138.134 (talk) 20:27, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Most of the other pages about character encodings show the control characters. I copied the comment off of one of them. However a few such as ISO-8859-3 show gray for the control characters. In any case there certainly should not be two tables, which is what was here before. Most casual readers would never figure out that the only difference is that the gray cells are switched to control characters and would be looking for differences in the letters!Spitzak (talk) 20:40, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes, all pages should show the control characters of the encoding they are representing. My point is that ISO/IEC 8859-1:1998 has no control characters. So this surplus in information is wrong on the one hand and misleading on the other. It adds to the confusion around ISO/IEC 8859-1:1998, Windows Codepage 1252 and ISO-8859-1. There is no benefit in catering to "casual readers" who never look at those tables anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.191.146 (talk) 17:25, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

 * It would seem that the correct approach is to show the actual characters of the character set being presented, and to leave all other code points blank (gray). So for this particular article, no control codes should be shown in the table. But in addition, there should be some mention of (and link to) the ISO control codes that the character set is generally used with. Interested readers can then click through to get more specific details about the "complete" character set code points as it is typically implemented. — Loadmaster (talk) 15:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Link is at the top as C0 and C1 controlsSpitzak (talk) 19:53, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is a good thing to have an article about ISO-8859-1 and not have a table which would show all the characters in it. As I take it, right now I'm supposed to look at the table for ISO 8859-1, then read that ISO-8859-1 has more characters, then head to another article and figure out how that characters fit into this table. Very convenient. HotXRock (talk) 19:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I did that originally but there seems to be a consensus that the description of the ISO character sets should not show the control characters. It is also true that in most use the majority of those values are not interpreted in any way by any definition of the assigned control characters, except for CR, LF, and perhaps TAB. All others tend to render representations or get interpreted as CP1252.Spitzak (talk) 00:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Okay, if this article is not the place for ISO-8859-1, where should it be described then? Windows-1252 has a different set of control characters, and it is definitely less appropriate for describing ISO-8859-1. By the way, Windows-1252 lists differences from ISO-8859-1, but currently ISO-8859-1 doesn't have a corresponding table anywhere on Wikipedia to compare with. Should we create a separate article for ISO-8859-1 then? HotXRock (talk) 10:43, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I suppose it's a choice between creating a section in this article to discuss ISO-8859-1 and its differences from ISO/IEC 8859-1, or creating an entirely separate article for it. I lean towards the former choice, since it's probably the most expected for users searching for either term and who probably don't know there is a difference between the two. — Loadmaster (talk) 19:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

 * This article "discusses the differences" several times. It says that ISO-8859-1 is this table with the addition of the C0 and C1 controls, and if you follow that link there is (several) tables of the control characters.
 * I did in fact try to make the table have the control characters but this idea was rejected. I do NOT want to see a return to the redundant two tables, which leads any novices to believe that some of the letters themselves are different and makes the whole subject look more complex than it is.Spitzak (talk) 23:14, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Hexadecimal character codes
I removed the use of a "0x" prefix on hexadecimal character codes, because it appears that typically in these character set articles the decimal values are predominantly used, and when hexadecimal values are used they are labeled as such (e.g., "hex 80"). The use of the "0x" prefix is not universally recognized as implying hexaecimal, in spite of widespread use of C-like programming languages. In ISO and RFC documents for character sets, in fact, either decimal only is used (e.g., "128"), or a "row/column" notation (e.g., "8/0") is used. — Loadmaster (talk) 04:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Dutch language support
The explanation on Dutch language support is utter nonsense. The very existence of the mentioned Ĳ/ĳ as separate symbol is barely even known to Dutch-speaking people. The symbol doesn't even appear on Dutch or Belgian keyboards. As far as I can see, ISO/IEC 8859-1 supports the Dutch language completely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyerguds (talk • contribs) 07:34, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It was taught to us as a separate symbol in primary school. We called it de lange ij. We all type it as I + J but we also all know that this isn't perfect and that software's ability to convert it into the proper glyph can leave a lot to be desired. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.87.39 (talk) 23:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The same goes for Czech (and Slovak) ch. It is one character for purposes of sorting for example (between H and I), but it is written by two letters. Ceplm (talk) 14:41, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You can't even see the difference between ĳ and ij. You have to select it to see the difference, and you barely save memory if you use it. Maybe there are some fonts in which ij would look better as a separate symbol, but otherwise it's useless. 80.101.107.21 (talk) 16:03, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * FWIW (if anything, now many years later), I could clearly see the difference between ĳ and ij in your sentence above, even before selecting them. It was a surprise, though, that the former was the ligature (if that's the correct term?), because the visual distance between its parts was longer than in the following ij digraph. I would have assumed the single-character version would bring them closer together -- that this was pretty much the whole purpose of its existence -- but at least the default font my browser displays Wikipedia in has tighter kerning between the separate characters than the combined one. Life is full of little surprises... (And yes, given the discussion in some sections higher up on this page, the irony of my double hyphens for em-dash here is not lost on me.)--CRConrad (talk) 16:12, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Whether it saves memory or looks better is completely beside the point. There is a world of difference between what we commonly type and what would be "correct" if computers only supported it. Example: Today most people use a single "-" to mean either figure dash, en dash, em dash and so on, because all that ASCII / ISO-8859 supports is "-". That doesn't make it "right", and I seriously doubt a typographic system like TeX would drop "all those useless dashes" any time soon. -- DevSolar (talk) 10:03, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * As a dutch person, I concur for OP. We're only taught to write the 'lange ij' in one space for writing in 'blokletters', and as mentioned, because it sometimes looks better. The latter can also be argued by the ligature ﬁ which looks better than fi when looked close-up in times-new-roman-style fonts, yet I've only seen real typesetting software (like LaTeX) actually converting fi to ﬁ when printing/exporting. The ligature ĳ is only of historical interest and for vertical writing. The only places I encounter it in daily life is where it's incorporated in logos or markings which are vector-designed (like http://www.jacktummers.nl/wp-content/uploads/200907/lijnbus.jpg or http://www.wingene.be/_STUDIOEMMA_WWW/uploads/Image/DuurzaamheidGisEnMobiliteit/DeLijn_kleur_logo.jpg). Furthermore we have many other digraphs/Diphthongues, (ou, ei, ie, oe, ui, au) and they aren't written with a ligature or in a single space, because, what do you know, it just happens those can't be placed inside each other. --Zom-B (talk) 10:28, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

English (UK and US)
Why do we need to mention UK and US in parentheses in the list of supported languages? Even though some spellings do differ, there are no symbols unique to any of the two. IMHO it could be interesting to note that symbols adopted by smaller communities, such as the character é for say latté, or the character ö for say coöperation (as used by The New Yorker) are supported. elpincha (talk) 21:25, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes there are differences, primarily the '£' symbol, which is not in 7-bit ASCII nor on a US keyboard. It is on a UK keyboard. This is why ASCII is not adequate for UK English usage, you need ISO8859-1, Windows 1252 etc.
 * There are also some imported words which have retained their accents, at least in British English, for example Café. There are also some other cases, such as the famous Brontë sisters. TiffaF (talk) 16:27, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Ǿ/ǿ vs Ø/ø
I've been Danish all my life, but I've never heard of any usage of an accented Ø (except, maaaybe, for rockdots). Can anyone give any such example? If not, I propose to remove that note from the page. JanGB (talk) 13:30, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

As another dane, yes that letter is not used (or at least extremely uncommon) in Danish... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.106.166.70 (talk) 21:57, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

 * "Retskrivningsordbogen", the official norm for correct Danish spelling, previously (in its 1996 edition) included this example:
 * Hunden gǿr dagen lang (The dog barks the whole day)
 * This example includes an accent to distinguish it from
 * Hunden gør dagen lang (The dog poops the whole day)
 * However, accents are always optional in Danish.
 * --Oz1cz (talk) 10:22, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Polish language support
It looks like the article doesn't mention Polish language: not in the section on fully supported languages, and not in the section on languages with partial support.165.225.72.120 (talk) 11:18, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Romanian language support / work-arounds
I don't know Romanian very well so I won't edit it, but a work-around for ș (S-comma) is "sh" in ASCII and a work-around for ț (T-comma) is "ts" in ASCII. The Romanians I know live in an English-speaking country, and this is a very English-influenced work-around, so it may be horrific inside Romania, I don't know. Fluoborate (talk) 11:26, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Wrong Color in chset-color-intl - F6
Page " ISO/IEC_8859-1 "

Hi, i am sorry for my bad english language skills. The colors shown for F6 is not the same in the chart and the legend box because that is a typo in Color Code string, i think.

"FFEFAF" (Colored Square) is used when with "Graphic character" and i read it wrong when moving to the Chart through misleading, maybe it's is a failure.

Cya — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.82.108.221 (talk) 10:16, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Proposed new format for character set tables
{{legend|#DDD|Unassigned, replaced with C0/C1 control codes in ISO-8859-1}} {{legend|#ABC|The codepoints 215 (0xD7) and 247 (0xF7) were still undefined in the first release of ECMA-94 (1985)}}

This was reverted by User:Matthiaspaul with the following comment: "Good faith, but per Talk:ASCII changed to back to established table formatI: Standard layout (used almost everywhere else as well), color grouping, indication of variances, more and directly readable codes (no tooltips, which don't show at all over here, and would require a mouse anyway))"

IMHO his objections have no merit:

 * Standard layout (used almost everywhere else as well): incorrect, this is based on the tables used for the Unicode Code Blocks, which are used many more times in Wikipedia. Also I intended to change *all* the uses of the current tables, thus this format would becomd the "standard layout".

 * Color grouping: My number one priority was to eliminate this hideous coloring which is also incorrect for all non-ASCII characters! Besides being ugly, they make it impossible to use colors to indicate interesting characters, thus requiring boxes which are ambiguous and only allow one set of interesting characters.

 * More codes: that "code" is the decimal number of the table entry, and people have continuously mangled these tables to change it to the decimal version of the Unicode code point, or vice-versa to mangle the Unicode code point. Removing this, and putting "U+" in front of the code points, should help a lot with removing this confusion. And it is stupid to waste so much space on what really amounts to a hex->decimal conversion table.

 * Directly readable codes: this one is true but it means the Unicode name of the character is not available. Also the lack of the U+ prefix is leading to many people misreading the table and/or doing destructive edits to "fix" it. I also suspect the interest in the Unicode code point number is being vastly over-estimated.

I also made the following in an attempt to address his concerns, though I think preservation of the color and the Unicode code point still make it pretty hideous and would prefer the above design. The main change here is to change letters from green to white, to use actual Unicode categories for the colors, and to eliminate the decimal number, add U+ to the code point, and remove the 100% width:

Would very much appreciate any comments from anybody else about this.

Thank you. Spitzak (talk) 17:42, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Okay it appears that tables inserted into the talk do not get any responses, as I left this version here for 1.5 months with no comments, so assumed it was ok, and started making some rather massive changes to every table, which unfortuinately were not only mechanical as I wanted to fix the many examples where widths or layout were wonky. Changes again got reverted by User:Matthiaspaul with the rather questionable claim that the answer to 16*y+x is "vital" information. In any case it looks like the only way to get discussion is to edit the page itself. So I am editing it again with a series of changes of potential fixes. Please give some constructive criticism here. If "information has been deleted" please exactly say what that information is, perhaps saying what character you are talking about, and putting the information that was removed into the comment. Thank you.Spitzak (talk) 21:18, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

WP:DENY. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:14, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

 * In my opinion, the colorcode is not that useful, but the Unicode codes can be helpful obviously. Should it be in the character chart, a separate chart or the comments in the page? WP:DENY. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:14, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes i wanted to put the unicode code number, plus the entire Unicode code point name, into the tooltip (try pointing at the cells in the first table but away from the letters themselves, unfortunatley I found no way to make the link work but with arbitrary text in the tooltip). Mattiasipaul complained that this did not work on phones.Spitzak (talk) 19:56, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

WP:DENY. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:14, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Yes, I was just suggesting that a tooltip was a little better than a comment inside the text which the previous poster said. In both cases you can hit "edit" and see the text. What is your opinion on whether this information should be visible without hitting "edit"? The basic problem is that adding this information bloats the tables so it is much harder to identify glyphs and see patterns. For instance nobody is proposing putting the full unicode name visible in the table, despite that being far more informative than the unicode code point.Spitzak (talk) 16:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Such a "minimal" layout does not work for many character sets due to irregular width of the characters and the fact that the borders between them are difficult or impossible to see. I think dividing lines between the cells are necessary. I am unsure if anything else is needed, even the row and column headers.Spitzak (talk) 16:39, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

I certainly think Spitzak's proposed format looks a lot better than the current garish table. Who needs colour coding to grasp that 4 is a number and Ä is a letter?!? Fricking weird that anyone could be against this. If the "But it's standard!" argument is because the overwrought format is used on other pages, that's an argument for changing it there too. CRConrad (talk) 16:27, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. As you may have noticed I succeded in getting rid of the decimal answer to y*16+x in almost all the tables (cp437 I could not convince them to remove it, because it is the Alt code....). I also changed the color used by the majority of the characters to white. The other colors I tried really hard to fade so they were not so garish, but this is gradually getting reverted by people. IMHO I really think this should switch to my first version with nothing except a glyph in the box and so colors can be used for actual interesting information (such as which version the codes appeared in). The tables even with what littel I was able to achieve are still INCREDIBLY ugly.Spitzak (talk) 17:49, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, I see it's far too late for any productive discussion, as all of the work done on the character tables before Jan 2022 has been edited away from all of their articles. At the very least, the template mark-ups could have been left in place, and the templates themselves changed, instead of simply removing them from all of the tables.

As one of the small group of editors who made the changes toward the "garish" table format, let me point out some of the history and rationale behind that table format:
 * The cell colors allow characters of the same type (letter, digit, control, etc.) to be visually discernible as groups in the table itself. Cf. ASCII and EBCDIC, for example, which have very different concepts of groupings for alphabetic characters.
 * The Unicode equivalents are there to show in the table itself what the characters map to, using the now-universal standard encoding (U+dddd). Some characters look alike but have different code points, and it's easier to see what the code is in the table than having to click on the character itself to find out.

I will say that a few points against the format are well-taken, such as eliminating the 100% width formatting. And I like the tooltip idea, even though it's hard to use properly in such a small cell space (there actually being two tooltips in each cell). But on the whole, the "garish" tables were meant to convey useful information about the characters themselves, and the arrangement of the characters within the tables in particular, in a reasonable format. Surely there's a reasonable middle ground somewhere that we can agree on. — Loadmaster (talk) 16:59, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

"Romanised East-Asian languages"
I removed the claim: "It is also commonly used in most standard romanizations of East-Asian languages." It is not true in any obvious reasonable sense: first, "it" refers to the encoding scheme used for data transfer, and the amount of data transfer occurring in Romanised East-Asian languages must be truly negligible. If it meant to refer to the IEC's selection of roman letters, whatever they call it, then it is false, because for example Japanese needs macronned vowels, which are not included. Imaginatorium (talk) 02:15, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

"IsO-8859-1" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IsO-8859-1&redirect=no IsO-8859-1] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 08:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:ISO/IEC 8859-1


text:
Jack pine

Jack pine (Pinus banksiana), also known as grey pine or scrub pine, is a North American pine.

Distribution and habitat
Its native range in Canada is east of the Rocky Mountains from the Mackenzie River in the Northwest Territories to Cape Breton Island in Nova Scotia, and the north-central and northeast of the United States from Minnesota to Maine, with the southernmost part of the range just into northwest Indiana and northwest Pennsylvania.

Taxonomy
In the far west of its range, Pinus banksiana hybridizes readily with the closely related lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta). The species epithet banksiana is after the English botanist Sir Joseph Banks.

Description
Pinus banksiana ranges from 9 - 22 m in height. Some jack pines are shrub-sized, due to poor growing conditions. They do not usually grow perfectly straight, resulting in an irregular shape similar to pitch pine (Pinus rigida). This pine often forms pure stands on sandy or rocky soil. Many populations are adapted to stand-replacing fires, with the cones remaining closed for many years, until a forest fire kills the mature trees and opens the cones, reseeding the burnt ground. Other populations have not been shaped by regular stand-replacing fires and have reduced serotiny. A population on the Maine coast is apparently not reliant on fire for reproduction, and some stands have developed several age classes. Populations with lower serotiny are often found on soils that are in some way limiting to faster-growing competition, such as soils shallow to bedrock, shallow to water table, or very young soils.

Its leaves are needle-shaped, evergreen, in fascicles of two, needle-like, straight or slightly twisted, stiff, sharp-pointed, light yellowish-green, spread apart; edges toothed and 2 - 4 cm long. The bundle-sheath is persistent. The buds are blunt pointed, up to 15 mm long, reddish-brown, and resinous. On vigorous shoots, there is more than one cyclic component. The bark is thin, reddish-brown to gray in color in juvenile stages. As the tree matures it becomes dark brown and flaky. The wood is moderately hard and heavy, weak, light brown colour. The seed cones vary in shape, being rectangular to oval, cone shaped, straight or curved inward. The cones are 3 - 5 cm long, the scales with a small, fragile prickle that usually wears off before maturity, leaving the cones smooth.

Unusually for a pine, the cones normally point forward along the branch, sometimes curling around it. That is an easy way to tell it apart from the similar lodgepole pine in more western areas of North America. The cones on many mature trees are serotinous. They open when exposed to intense heat, greater than or equal to 50 C. The typical case is in a fire, however cones on the lower branches can open when temperatures reach 27 C due to the heat being reflected off the ground.

Ecology
Kirtland's warbler (Setophaga kirtlandii), a formerly endangered bird, depends on pure stands of young jack pine in a very limited area in the north of the Lower and Upper Peninsulas of Michigan for breeding. Most known nesting areas are limited to Crawford, Oscoda, and Ogemaw counties. Mature jack pine forests are usually open and blueberries are often abundant in the understory.

Young jack pines are an alternate host for sweet fern blister rust (Cronartium comptoniae). Infected sweet ferns (Comptonia peregrina) release powdery orange spores in the summer and nearby trees become infected in the fall. Diseased trees show vertical orange cankers on the trunk and galls on the lower branches. The disease does not tend to affect older trees.

Jack pines are also susceptible to scleroderris canker (Gremmeniella abietina). This disease manifests by yellowing at the base of the needles. Prolonged exposure may lead to eventual death of the tree.

Insects that attack jack pine stands include the white pine weevil (Pissodes strobi), jack pine sawfly, and jack pine budworm (Choristoneura pinus).

Fossil evidence shows the jack pine survived the glacial period in the Appalachian and Ozark Mountains.

Commercial uses
Like other species of pine, Pinus banksiana has use as timber, although its wood tends to be knotty and not highly resistant to decay. Products include pulpwood, fuel, decking, and utility poles.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Jack pine


text:
1982 Hama massacre

The Hama massacre (مجزرة حماة) occurred in February 1982 when the Syrian Arab Army and the Defense Companies, under orders of president Hafez al-Assad, besieged the town of Hama for 27 days in order to quell an uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood against the Ba'athist government. The campaign that had begun in 1976 by Sunni Muslim groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, was brutally crushed in an anti-Sunni massacre at Hama, carried out by the Syrian Arab Army and Alawite militias under commanding General Rifaat al-Assad.

Prior to the start of operations, Hafez al-Assad issued orders to seal off Hama from the outside world; effectively imposing a media blackout, total shut down of communications, electricity and food supplies to the city for months. Initial diplomatic reports from Western countries stated that 1,000 were killed. Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates reporting at least 10,000 deaths, while others put the number at 20,000 (Robert Fisk) or 40,000 (Syrian Human Rights Committee and SNHR). The massacre remains the "single deadliest act" of violence perpetrated by an Arab state upon its own population, in the history of Modern Middle East.

Nearly two-thirds of the city was destroyed in the Ba'athist military operation. Robert Fisk, who was present at Hama during the events of the massacre, reported that indiscriminate bombing had razed much of the city to the ground and that the vast majority of the victims were civilians. Patrick Seale, reporting in The Globe and Mail, described the operation as a "two-week orgy of killing, destruction and looting" which destroyed the city and killed a minimum of 25,000 inhabitants.

The attack has been described as a "genocidal massacre" which was motivated by sectarian animosities against the Sunni community of Hama. Memory of the massacre remains an important aspect of Syrian culture and evokes strong emotions amongst Syrians to the present day.

Background
The Ba'ath Party of Syria, which advocates Ba'athism, the ideologies of Arab nationalism and Arab socialism had clashed with the Muslim Brotherhood, a group which advocates a Sunni Islamist ideology, since 1940. The two groups were opposed in important ways. The Ba'ath party was nominally secular, nationalist. The Muslim Brotherhood, like other Islamist groups, saw nationalism as un-Islamic and religion as inseparable from politics and government. Most Ba'ath party members were from humble, obscure backgrounds and favored radical economic policies, while Sunni Muslims had dominated the souqs and landed power of Syria, and tended to view government intervention in the economy as threatening. Not all Sunni notables believed in fundamentalism, but even those who did not often saw the Brotherhood as a useful tool against the Ba'ath.

The town of Hama in particular was a "stronghold of landed conservatism and of the Muslim Brothers," and "had long been a redoubtable opponent of the Ba'athist state." The first full-scale clash between the two occurred shortly after the 1963 coup, in which the Ba'ath party first gained power in Syria. In April 1964, riots broke out in Hama, where Muslim insurgents put up "roadblocks, stockpiled food and weapons, ransacked wine shops." After an Ismaili Ba'ath militiaman was killed, riots intensified and rebels attacked "every vestige" of the Ba'ath party in Hama. Tanks were brought in to crush the rebellion and 70 members of the Muslim Brotherhood died, with many others wounded or captured, and still more disappearing underground.

After the clashes in Hama, the situation periodically erupted into clashes between the government and various Islamic sects. However, a more serious challenge occurred after the Syrian invasion of Lebanon in 1976. In October 1980, Muhammad al-Bayanuni, a respected member of the religious hierarchy of Aleppo, became the Islamic Front's Secretary-General, but its leading light remained 'Adnan Sa'd al-Din, the General Supervisor of the Muslim Brothers. The chief ideologue of the Islamic Front was a prominent religious scholar from Hama, Sa'id Hawwa, who along with Sa'd al-Din had been a leader of the northern militants during the mid-1970s. Anti-regime activists such as Marwan Hadid and Muhammad al-Hamid were also carefully listened to.

From 1976 to 1982, Sunni Islamists fought the Ba'ath Party-controlled government of Syria in what has been called a "long campaign of terror". In 1979 the Brotherhood undertook guerrilla activities in multiple cities within the country targeting military officers and government officials. The resulting government repression included abusive tactics, torture, mass arrests, and a number of selective assassinations, particularly of prominent mosque preachers. In July 1980, the ratification of Law No. 49 made membership in the Muslim Brotherhood a capital offense.

Throughout the first years of the 1980s, the Muslim Brotherhood and various other Islamist factions staged hit-and-run and bomb attacks against the government and its officials, including a nearly successful attempt to assassinate President Hafez al-Assad on 26 June 1980, during an official state reception for the president of Mali. When a machine-gun salvo missed him, al-Assad allegedly ran to kick a hand grenade aside, and his bodyguard (who survived and was later promoted to a much higher position) smothered the explosion of another one. Surviving with only light injuries, al-Assad's revenge was swift and merciless: only hours later a large number of imprisoned Islamists (reports say from 600 to 1000 prisoners ) were executed in their cells in Tadmor Prison (near Palmyra), by units loyal to the President's brother Rifaat al-Assad.

In an earlier massacre in 1981, over 300 residents of Hama were killed by the Baathist security forces.

Attack by insurgents in Hama
The events of the Hama massacre began at 2 am on 2 February 1982. An army unit searching the old city stumbled on the hideout of the local guerilla commander, Omar Jawwad (aka Abu Bakr) and were ambushed. Other insurgent cells were alerted by radio and "roof-top snipers killed perhaps a score" of Syrian soldiers. Reinforcements were rushed to besiege Abu Bakr who then "gave the order for a general uprising" in Hama. Mosque loudspeakers used for the call to prayer called for jihad against the Ba'ath, and hundreds of Islamic insurgents rose to attack the homes of government officials and Baath Party leaders, overrun police posts and ransack armouries. They carried out attacks, especially in the northern cities, on government buildings, cooperative stores, police stations, and army units, and provoked demonstrations and large-scale shutdowns of shops and schools. The Brotherhood, having already benefited from training provided to Muslim militants in Iraqi army camps, was also assured of comprehensive assistance from Iraq in the form of weaponry and financial resources. By daybreak of the morning of 2 February, some 70 leading Ba'athists had been killed and the Islamist insurgents and other opposition activists proclaimed Hama a "liberated city", urging Syrians to rise up against the "infidel".

Counter-attack by government forces
According to author Patrick Seale, "every party worker, every paratrooper sent to Hama knew that this time Islamic militancy had to be torn out of the city, whatever the cost". The military was mobilized, and president Hafez al-Assad sent Rifaat's special forces (the Defense Companies), elite army units and Mukhabarat agents to the city. Before the attack, the Syrian government called for the city's surrender and warned that anyone remaining in the city would be considered a rebel. Hama was besieged by 12,000 troops for three weeks – the first week spent "in regaining control of the town", and the last two "in hunting down the insurgents". Robert Fisk, a journalist who was in Hama midway through the battle, described civilians fleeing pervasive destruction.

According to Amnesty International, the Syrian military bombed the old city center from the air to facilitate the entry of infantry and tanks through the narrow streets; buildings were demolished by tanks during the first four days of fighting. Large parts of the old city were destroyed. There were also unsubstantiated reports of use of hydrogen cyanide by the government forces.

Rifaat's forces ringed the city with artillery, shelled it, then combed the rubble for surviving Muslim Brotherhood members and supporters. Suspecting that rebels were still hiding in tunnels under the old city, he had diesel fuel pumped into them and stationed tanks at their entrances to shell fleeing militants. Alawite military units loyal to Rifaat al-Assad such as the Defense Companies entered the city and indiscriminately massacred thousands of Sunni civilian survivors.

The indiscriminate bombardment by government forces razed much of the city's districts, streets, heritage sites, mosques and churches. The Azm palace was severely damaged. Baathist paramilitaries continued looting for weeks and numerous families were rounded up and shot. Baathist dissident Akram al-Hawrani asserted that women, children and all Hama inhabitants irrespective of their political leanings were targeted indiscriminately during the regime onslaught. Even Ba'ath party members, according to Hawrani, were victims of the "savage slaughter" ordered by Hafez al-Assad.

Estimates of fatalities
Initial diplomatic reports from western governments in 1982 had stated that 1,000 were killed in the fighting. Subsequent estimates of casualties varied from 10,000 to 40,000 people killed, including about 1,000 soldiers. Robert Fisk, who was in Hama shortly after the massacre, originally estimated fatalities at 10,000, but has since doubled the estimate to 20,000. Syrian general and brother to the president Rifaat al-Assad reportedly boasted of killing 38,000 people. Amnesty International initially estimated the death toll was between 10,000 and 25,000.

Reports by Syrian Human Rights Committee claimed "over 25,000" or between 30,000 and 40,000 people were killed. Twenty years later, Syrian journalist Subhi Hadidi, wrote that forces "under the command of General Ali Haydar, besieged the city for 27 days, bombarding it with heavy artillery and tank [fire], before invading it and killing 30,000 or 40,000 of the city's citizens – in addition to the 15,000 missing who have not been found to this day, and the 100,000 expelled." Report published by the Syrian Network for Human Rights (SNHR) on the 40th anniversary of the Hama massacre estimates that around 40,000 inhabitants were killed in the massacre; in addition to about 17,000 civilians who were disappeared and have not been found as of the present day.

Aftermath
Around two-thirds of the city was demolished in the military operations during the massacre. After the Hama massacre, the Islamic revolution was crushed, and since then, the Brotherhood has operated in exile and other opposition factions either surrendered or slipped into hiding. Government attitudes in Syria hardened considerably during the uprising, and Assad would rely more on repression than he would rely on political tactics during the remainder of his rule, although an economic liberalization program was launched in the 1990s. After the massacre, the already evident disarray in the insurgents' ranks increased, and the rebel factions experienced acrimonious internal splits. Particularly damaging to their cause was the deterrent effect of the massacre, as well as the realization that no Sunni uprisings had occurred in the rest of the country in support of the Hama rebels. Most of the members of the rebel groups either fled from the country or remained in exile, mainly in Iran, while others made their way to the United States, the United Kingdom and Germany. The Muslim Brotherhood—the largest opposition group—split into two factions, after giving up on armed struggle. One faction, more moderate than the other faction and recognized by the international Muslim Brotherhood, eventually headquartered itself in the UK, where it remains today, while the less moderate faction headquartered itself in Iran and retained a military structure for several years, with backing from the Iranian government, before it rejoined the London-based mainstream.

Internationally, the Hama massacre became a symbol of the al-Assad government's human rights violations as well as a symbol of its brutal repression. Within Syria, mention of the massacre has been strictly suppressed, but the general contours of the events—and various partisan versions, on all sides—are well known throughout the country. When the massacre is publicly referenced, it is only referenced as the "events" or it is referenced as the "incident" at Hama. In 2012, Professor Gregory Stanton of Genocide Watch characterized the Hama massacre as a 'genocidal massacre', and he also stated that its methods could prompt the regime to pursue future mass killings during the Syrian Civil War (which was just beginning at the time).

Memory of the Hama Massacre has become an important aspect of Syrian culture and on an emotional level, it has evoked a strong feeling of resentment amongst Syrians to the present day. During the Syrian Revolution in 2011, older Syrians frequently warned younger activists about the Assad regime's determination to "do Hama again", i.e., its willingness to exterminate hundreds of thousands of civilians in order to ensure its survival. The satirical slogan "Asad 'alayya wa fil-hurubi na'amah (Against me a lion and in wars an ostrich...)" became popular amongst Syrian dissidents for Hafez al-Assad's comparatively muted response to Israeli invasion of Lebanon the same year.

Lawsuits
In December 2013, human rights organization "Trial International" filed a criminal lawsuit against Rifaat al-Assad over his role as commander of Defense Brigades that organized the ground campaign of the massacre. Charges in the war-crimes lawsuit included organizing extrajudicial killings, large-scale torture, sexual violence, mass-rapes, summary executions and forced disappearances.

A criminal investigation was launched by the Swiss Office of the Attorney General the same year. Almost a decade later in August 2023, the Federal Criminal Court ordered the extradition of Rifa'at al-Assad, prompting Switzerland to issue an arrest warrant to prosecute him.

title: 1982 Hama massacre


text:
User talk:LordZarglif555

Please don't vandalize Wikipedia. RickK 05:13, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

You're new here, but you need to understand what Wikipedia's NPOV policy is all about. You can't just run around putting personal opinions into articles, or you'll be banned. RickK 15:51, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm not doing that anymore!!! get off my back.

Again, please refrain from vandalizing articles and using misleading edit summaries. This sort of behavior is unacceptable. --Minesweeper 08:25, Mar 12, 2004 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Rishathra
I have nominated Rishathra, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Rishathra. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. TTN (talk) 17:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Nomination of Ketran for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ketran is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Ketran until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  Puffin  Let's talk! 16:29, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

title: User talk:LordZarglif555


text:
Chris Bell

Chris or Christopher Bell may refer to:

 * Chris Bell (American musician) (1951–1978), singer-songwriter and guitarist of the band Big Star
 * Chris Bell (American football) (born 1976), American football offensive tackle
 * Chris Bell, Australian musician, half of The Allen Brothers
 * Christopher Bell (businessman) (born 1957), British businessman
 * Chris Bell (poker player) (born 1971), American professional poker player
 * Chris Bell (politician) (born 1959), former US Congressman
 * Chris Bell (rugby union) (born 1983), rugby union footballer
 * Chris Bell (director) (born 1972), American director and writer
 * Christopher Bell (scholar) (1974–2009), disability studies scholar
 * Christopher Bell (racing driver) (born 1994), NASCAR driver
 * Christopher C. Bell (born 1933), American writer
 * Chris Bell (British Army officer), British Army officer
 * Christopher Bell (Mississippi politician) (born 1970), member of the Mississippi House of Representatives

title: Chris Bell


text:
Jaguar XK150

The Jaguar XK150 is a sports car produced by Jaguar between 1957 and 1961 as the successor to the XK140.

Initially it was only available in fixed head coupé (FHC) and drophead coupé (DHC) versions. The roadster without full weather equipment which had begun the XK line was launched as the XK150 OTS (open two-seater) in 1958. Minimal rear seats were fitted in the coupés. The open two-seater was fitted for the first time with wind-up windows in taller high-silled doors, but retained the very simple folding roof of its predecessors.

History
Announced in its home market in May 1957 the XK150 bore a family resemblance to the XK120 and XK140 but was radically revised. Most visibly, a one-piece windscreen replaced the split screen, and the wing line carried higher and more streamlined at the doors. The widened bonnet opened down to the wings, and on the coupés the windscreen frame was moved forward 4 in to make passenger access easier. The car was available at various times in Red, Pearl Grey, White, Indigo Blue, Claret, Cotswold Blue, Black, Mist Grey, Sherwood Green, Carmen Red, British Racing Green, Cornish Grey, and Imperial Maroon.

The XK150's dashboard came trimmed in leather, with walnut optional on all models. On the early drophead coupés, the aluminium centre dash panel, which was discontinued after June 1958, had an X pattern engraving similar to the early 3.8 E-Type. Thinner doors gave more interior space. A little red light reminded the driver that the front parking lights, located atop the wings (fenders), were on.

Suspension and chassis were very similar to the XK140, with manual-only rack and pinion steering. The 3.4 litre DOHC straight-6 XK engine was similar to the XK140's, but a new "B" type cylinder head raised power to 180 SAE bhp at 5750 rpm.

The first closed and convertible XK150s were slower than their predecessors. After a twelve-month delay caused by the February 1957 factory fire, this deficit was corrected in the spring of 1958 with the March release of special equipment models fitted with disc brakes and more powerful SE engine. Twin 1.75 in SU HD6 carburettors and a modified B type cylinder head with larger exhaust valves improved performance to 210 SAE bhp at 5500 rpm. While most export cars were SE models, a third option for the open two-seater featured an "S" engine with three 2 in SU HD8 carburettors and a straight-port cylinder head boosting power to a claimed 250 SAE bhp.

In 1960 the 220 hp 3.8 litre engine fitted in the full-sized luxury Mark IX saloon since October 1958 became available. It was tuned to produce up to 265 hp in S models and propel an XK150 to 135 mi/h and from 0–60 mph in around 7.0 seconds. Fuel economy was 18mpg. Four-wheel Dunlop 12 in disc brakes appeared for the first time as an option. Factory specification 6.00 × 16 inch Dunlop Road Speed tyres or optional 185VR16 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 radials could be fitted on either 16 × 5K½ solid wheels or optional 16 × 5K wire wheels.

The E-Type replacement was announced in the middle of March 1961.

Production
Production ended in October 1960 with 9,382 vehicles, including 2,265 Roadsters open-two seater OTS, 4,445 Fixed head coupés FHC and 2,672 drop head coupés DHC.

Performance
A 250 bhp 3.4 litre XK150S fixed-head coupé with limited slip differential was tested by The Motor in 1959. It had a top speed of 132 mph and could accelerate from 0–60 mph in 7.8 seconds. Fuel consumption of 22.0 mpgimp was recorded. The test car cost £2110 including taxes of £623. It was at the time the fastest closed car the magazine had ever subjected to a full road test.

The bhp figures quoted are SAE gross and not SAE net horsepower ratings. In comparison, the 3.4L 1954 Jaguar 'D'-type with racing camshafts, larger 1.875in. inlet valves, and 3 dual-choke Weber carburettors was rated at 246 bhp.

Jaguar XK150 By Bertone
A total of 3 bare chassis were sent to Bertone in Turin to be bodied as prototype fixed-head coupés. They were reportedly meant to be the replacement for the XK150 and wore an "XKE" badge on their rear flanks. Jaguar ended up replacing the XK150 with the E-Type.

title: Jaguar XK150


text:
Third generation of video game consoles

In the history of video games, the third generation of video game consoles, commonly referred to as the 8-bit era, began on July 15, 1983, with the Japanese release of two systems: Nintendo's Family Computer (commonly abbreviated to Famicom) and Sega's SG-1000. When the Famicom was released outside of Japan, it was remodeled and marketed as the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). This generation marked the end of the video game crash of 1983, and a shift in the dominance of home video game manufacturers from the United States to Japan. Handheld consoles were not a major part of this generation; the Game & Watch line from Nintendo (which started in 1980) and the Milton Bradley Microvision (which came out in 1979) that were sold at the time are both considered part of the previous generation due to hardware typical of the second generation.

Improvements in technology gave consoles of this generation improved graphical and sound capabilities, comparable to golden age arcade games. The number of simultaneous colors on screen and the palette size both increased which, along with larger resolutions, more sprites on screen, and more advanced scrolling and pseudo-3D effects, which allowed developers to create scenes with more detail and animation. Audio technology improved and gave consoles the ability to produce a greater variation and range of sound. A notable innovation of this generation was the inclusion of cartridges with on-board memory and batteries to allow users to save their progress in a game, with Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda introducing the technology to the worldwide market. This innovation allowed for much more expansive gaming worlds and in-depth storytelling, since users could now save their progress rather than having to start each gaming session at the beginning. By the next generation, the capability to save games became ubiquitous—at first saving on the game cartridge itself and, later, when the industry changed to read-only optical disks, on memory cards, hard disk drives, and eventually cloud storage.

The best-selling console of this generation was the NES/Famicom from Nintendo, followed by the Master System from Sega (the successor to the SG-1000), and the Atari 7800. Although the previous generation of consoles had also used 8-bit processors, it was at the end of the third generation that home consoles were first labeled and marketed by their "bits". This also came into fashion as fourth generation 16-bit systems like the Sega Genesis were marketed in order to differentiate between the generations. In Japan and North America, this generation was primarily dominated by the Famicom/NES, while the Master System dominated the Brazilian market, with the combined markets of Europe being more balanced in overall sales between the two main systems. The end of the third generation was marked by the emergence of 16-bit systems of the fourth generation and with the discontinuation of the Famicom on September 25, 2003. However, in some cases, the third generation still lives on as dedicated console units still use hardware from the Famicom specification, such as the VT02/VT03 and OneBus hardware.

1983–1984
The Japanese video game market was still a growing "wide open" market for video game consoles in 1983. Japan had a relatively small console market, where only 300,000 consoles had been sold up until 1983, compared to the millions that had been sold in the United States up until then. A number of Japanese manufacturers attempted to compete for the "wide open" Japanese console market with their own consoles. The Epoch Cassette Vision, released in 1981, was the best-selling console in Japan at the time. It was followed by the Bandai Arcadia (priced ¥19,800), a Japanese version of the Arcadia 2001 released in 1982, and the Atari 2800 (priced ¥24,800), a Japanese version of the Atari 2600 marketed in May 1983.

The third generation of consoles began when two Japanese companies, Sega and Nintendo, decided to enter the console gaming market. On July 15, 1983, they both released new consoles in Japan, Sega's SG-1000 and Nintendo's Famicom. Both companies previously had success as arcade game companies. Sega, one of Japan's largest arcade companies, was intending to compete in both the console and personal computer markets, with a home computer version called the SC-3000 released at the same time. Meanwhile, Nintendo focused on making the Famicom more powerful than competing home systems so that it would be comparable to their Donkey Kong (1981) arcade video game hardware, while at the same time selling it for cheaper than the Cassette Vision, selling the Famicom for ¥14,800 (about $150). Nintendo unveiled the Famicom shortly before the Tokyo Toy Show in June 1983, becoming a sensation among toy show exhibitors, prior to Sega unveiling the SG-1000 at the Tokyo Toy Show.

The Famicom went on to become very popular in Japan, where it quickly beat the Cassette Vision to become Japan's all-time best-selling console. Sega would become Nintendo's main competitor for console sales during the era. Sega's SG-1000, which preceded Sega's more commercially successful Master System, initially had little to distinguish itself from earlier consoles such as the ColecoVision and contemporary computers such as the MSX, although it was able to achieve advanced visual effects, including parallax scrolling in Orguss and sprite-scaling in Zoom 909.

To enter the worldwide market, Nintendo approached the American company Atari, which had the majority share of the home video game market in North America, with a proposal for Atari to license the Famicom and distribute it. An agreement was concluded, which was to be signed at the Consumer Electronics Show in July 1983. At the same CES, however, Coleco exhibited its Coleco Adam home computer, which featured a version of Nintendo's Donkey Kong. At that time, Atari had exclusive rights to distribute Nintendo games on home computers, and Coleco had exclusive rights to distribute the game on consoles. However, since Atari understood that Adam was a home computer, they postponed signing the agreement with Nintendo and asked the company to resolve the issue with rights. The problem was resolved, but during this time, the video game crash of 1983 had occurred and Atari began to lose influence in the market. With this, Nintendo had no competitor left and the company eventually decided to enter the market on its own.

1984–1986
Nintendo were initially discouraged after the crash, with Nintendo of America's market research being met with warnings to stay away from home consoles and US retailers refusing to stock game consoles. As a result, Nintendo instead introduced the Famicom to North America in the form of an arcade hardware, the Nintendo VS. System, in 1984. It became a major success in North American arcades, giving Nintendo the confidence to release the Famicom in North America as a video game console, for which there was growing interest due to Nintendo's positive reputation in the arcades.

The company introduced a version of the Famicom in January 1985 at the Winter CES as the Nintendo Advanced Video System, short for NAVS. The gamepads were wireless and worked with it using an infrared port, and the bundle would also include a light gun. It was planned that the NAVS would be available in the spring of 1985. However, this did not happen and the console was shown again at the summer CES in June of that year, as an updated version called the Nintendo Entertainment System. The system was released in October 1985 as an experiment within New York City bounds with Super Mario Bros. game bundled. The experiment was successful and showed that people still wanted to play games despite the 1983 crisis. After that the system was released in all North America in February 1986 at a price of US$159.

In 1985, Sega succeeded the SG-1000 with the Master System, which incorporated hardware scrolling, alongside an increased color palette, greater memory, pseudo-3D effects, and stereoscopic 3-D, gaining a clear hardware advantage over the NES. However, the NES continued to dominate the North American and Japanese markets, while the Master System had more success in the European and South American markets.

The Family Computer (commonly abbreviated the Famicom) became popular in Japan during this era, crowding out the other consoles in this generation. The Famicom's Western counterpart, the Nintendo Entertainment System, dominated the gaming market in North America, thanks in part to its restrictive licensing agreements with developers. This marked a shift in the dominance of home video games from the United States to Japan, to the point that Computer Gaming World described the "Nintendo craze" as a "non-event" for American video game designers as "virtually all the work to date has been done in Japan." The company had an estimated 65% of 1987 hardware sales in the console market; Atari Corporation had 24% (including the Atari 7800, 2600 Jr. and XEGS), Sega had 8%, and other companies had 3%.

1986–present
The popularity of the Japanese consoles grew so quickly that in 1988 Epyx stated that, in contrast to a video game-hardware industry in 1984 that the company had described as "dead", the market for Nintendo cartridges was larger than for all home-computer software. Nintendo sold seven million NES systems in 1988, almost as many as the number of units the Commodore 64 sold in its first five years. In 1988, The Los Angeles Times reported that the rise of video game consoles had a positive impact on computer games, sales of which grew 37% during the first quarter of 1988. In 1989, however, Compute! reported that Nintendo's popularity caused most computer-game companies to have poor sales during Christmas that year, resulting in serious financial problems for some, and after more than a decade making computer games, in 1989 Epyx converted completely to console cartridges. By 1990 30% of American households owned the NES, compared to 23% for all personal computers, and peer pressure to have a console was so great that even the children of computer-game developers demanded them despite parents' refusal and the presence of state-of-the-art computers and software at home. As Computer Gaming World reported in 1992, "The kids who don't have access to videogames are as culturally isolated as the kids in our own generation whose parents refused to buy a TV".

This era contributed many influential aspects to the history of the development of video games. The third generation saw the release of many of the first console role-playing video games (RPGs). Editing and censorship of video games was often used in localizing Japanese games to North America. It was during this time that many successful video game franchises began, which went onto to becoming mainstays of the video game industry. Some examples are Super Mario Bros., Final Fantasy, The Legend of Zelda, Dragon Quest, Metroid, Mega Man, Metal Gear, Castlevania, Phantasy Star, Megami Tensei, Ninja Gaiden, and Bomberman.

In Europe during the late 1980s, the Master System had a stronger start than the Nintendo Entertainment System in some areas, with NES sales lagging behind the Master System in the United Kingdom. By 1990, the Master System was the biggest-selling console in Europe, though the NES was beginning to have a fast-growing user base in the United Kingdom and this position had reversed by the end of the run of both consoles.

The third generation also saw the beginning of the children's educational console market. Due to their reduced capacities, these systems typically were not labeled by their "bits" and were not marketed in competition with traditional video game consoles.

In North America, the Atari 7800 and Master System were discontinued in 1992, while the NES continued to be produced until 1995. In Europe, the Master System was discontinued in the late 1990s. However it has continued to sell in Brazil through to the present day. In Japan, Nintendo continued to repair Famicom systems until October 31, 2007.

SG-1000
On July 15, 1983, the SG-1000 was released in Japan, the first console to be created by Sega. It was released alongside the Famicom, making them the first two consoles of the third generation. While it did not sell as well as other consoles of the generation, it was considered important to the development of Sega as a console manufacturer.

Famicom/Nintendo Entertainment System
The Famicom, released on July 15, 1983, in Japan and in the North American region in October 1985 as the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES), is an 8-bit cartridge-based console developed and marketed by Nintendo. It became the most popular console of the generation, selling over 60 million units. It was the first home system to feature a controller with a directional pad (designed by Gunpei Yokoi), which became an industry standard. While the NES was discontinued in North America on August 14, 1995, it was not until September 25, 2003, that the Famicom was discontinued in Japan.

Sega Mark III/Master System
The Sega Mark III was released on October 20, 1985, for the Japanese market and was the third iteration of the SG-1000. The name was changed to the Master System and the design altered for release outside of Japan. It was designed to be more powerful than the NES in an attempt to give it an edge over the competition but despite good sales, it did not match the success of the NES, making it the second best selling console of the generation. This was the case in all regions apart from Brazil, where it continued to sell for years after the end of the generation.

Atari 7800
The Atari 7800 was released in May 1986 and was the successor to the Atari 5200. It was the first console to be backward compatible without additional hardware. It was originally due for launch on May 21, 1984, but due to the sale of the company the launch did not happen until two years later and, coupled with a small library of games, the console did not sell as well as the Master System or NES.

Sales comparison
The NES/Famicom sold by far the most units of any third generation console, particularly in Japan and North America. In North America in 1989, between Nintendo and Sega, there was a 94% to 6% split in market share between the NES and the Master System, in Nintendo's favor. The NES sold 1.1 million units in North America during 1986, much more than the Master System (125,000) and Atari 7800 (100,000) combined. By 1990, Nintendo had a 93% North American market share, followed by Sega with a 3.8% share, NEC with 1.3% and Atari with 1.1% share. Nintendo maintained its North American lead through 1991, when it had a market-share of 80% that year, much more than Atari (12%) and Sega (8%) combined. This was due to Nintendo's strong lineup of both first-party titles (such as Super Mario Bros., Metroid, Duck Hunt, and The Legend of Zelda) and third-party titles along with Nintendo's strict licensing rules that required NES titles to be exclusive to the console for two years after release, putting a damper on third-party support for other consoles.

In Europe, competition was much tougher for the NES, which was trailing behind the Master System up until 1990, despite the former's hegemony of the North American and Japanese markets. NES sales began picking up from about 1990, after which sales were more evenly split between the NES and Master System through 1994; the NES eventually overtook the Master System in Western Europe by a narrow margin, though the Master System maintained its lead in several markets such as the United Kingdom, Belgium and Spain. In other regions, the Master System was the most successful console in Brazil, South Korea, and Australia, while the Dendy (a Taiwanese Famiclone of the NES/Famicom) was the most successful in the former Soviet Union.

Milestone titles

 * Alex Kidd in Miracle World (SMS) by Sega featured Sega's original mascot, Alex Kidd.
 * Castlevania (NES) by Konami is loosely based on Bram Stoker's Dracula, featuring Count Dracula as the main antagonist of the series. This game initiated the Castlevania series.
 * Dragon Ball: Dragon Daihikyō (SCV) by Epoch was the first game based upon the now long-running manga and anime series, Dragon Ball.
 * Dragon Quest (NES) by Chunsoft and Enix introduced the Dragon Quest series in 1986.
 * Final Fantasy (NES) by Square started the Final Fantasy series in 1987.
 * The Legend of Zelda (NES) by Nintendo R&D4 and Nintendo initiated the Legend of Zelda series in 1986.
 * Mega Man 2 (NES) by Capcom was the breakthrough title in Capcom's Mega Man series. The series had a number of additional hits on the NES, and later spawned several successful spin-off series.
 * Metal Gear (MSX2) by Konami initiated the Metal Gear series in 1987. It was released for the MSX2 computer and remade on the NES shortly after.
 * Metroid (NES) by R&D1 and Nintendo initiated the Metroid series in 1986.
 * Ninja Gaiden (NES) by Tecmo initiated the Ninja Gaiden series in 1988, and was acclaimed for its extreme difficulty, high quality music, and for having one of the earliest uses of cutscenes in video games.
 * Phantasy Star (SMS) by Sega Consumer Development Division 2 and Sega is considered one of the benchmark role-playing video games, and is among the first to use a science fiction setting, and to feature a female protagonist.
 * Super Mario Bros. (NES) by Nintendo R&D4 and Nintendo was bundled with the NES and became the best-selling video game of all time, a title it held until 2009. Countless imitations of the game appeared over the course of the console generation.
 * Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) by Nintendo is widely considered the best sidescrolling platform game of the generation, as well as topping many "Best Game" lists for the NES. Its jumping physics and world map segments, where players can choose their path, served as a formula for later 2D Mario games.

title: Third generation of video game consoles


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Hamgyong Province

Hamgyong Province was one of the Eight Provinces of Korea during the Joseon Dynasty. Hamgyong was located in the northeast of Korea. The provincial capital was Hamhung.

Names
The province was first established as Yonggil (영길,, Yŏnggil) in 1413. It was renamed Hamgil (함길, ) three years later. In 1470, it was renamed Yongan (영안,, Yŏngan). In 1509, it was renamed Hamgyong after its two principal cities, Hamhung (,, Hamhŭng, "Complete Success") and Kyongsong (경성, 鏡城, Kyŏngsŏng, "Mirror," "Clear," or "Perceptive City").

In the 18th century, this was transcribed via Chinese as Kyen-king and glossed as meaning "the Happy". In the 19th century, it was transcribed as Ham-kieng.

Within Korea, the province was also referred to as "Dongbuk" ("Northeast"). The southern half of the province was also referred as "Kwannam", and the northern half of the province was also referred as "Kwanbuk".

History
Korea's northeastern frontier was first organized into the province of Yonggil in 1413.

In 1895, the province was replaced by the districts (부,, bu) of Kyongsong in the northeast, Kapsan (갑산, 甲山) in the northwest, and Hamhŭng in the south.

In 1896, Kyŏngsŏng District was reorganized into North Hamgyŏng Province, and Kapsan and Hamhŭng Districts were reorganized into South Hamgyŏng Province. These divisions continue in present-day North Korea.

Geography
Hamgyŏng was bounded on the west by P'yŏngan, on the south by Hwanghae and Kangwŏn, on the east by the Sea of Japan, and on the north by Qing China and the Russian Empire.

title: Hamgyong Province


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Jon Gibson

Jon Gibson may refer to:

 * Jon Gibson (minimalist musician) (1940–2020), American flautist, saxophonist, and composer
 * Jon Gibson (Christian musician) (born 1962), American soul and gospel singer, and producer
 * Jon M. Gibson (born 1982), American writer and director, and founder of iam8bit

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