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Talk:Modesty

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Taqiyah/Kufi vs Yarmulke/Kipa
I wouldn't say "taqiyahs are slightly larger than yarmulkes/kipa" rather Kippot(jewish skull caps) range in size depending on the persons style or "sect" (ie Modern orthodox wear small knitted,Chassidim large velvet or knitted resembling a typical african-american "kufi" and Bucharian and russian jews will often wear a rugcap) in fact Kippot and Taqiyahs are often interchangable and you can find the same style same model skullcap on sale at an islamic site as a taqiyah/kufi and at a Jewish site as a Kipa heres a pillbox style kippa http://www.jewish-history.com/images/store/kippah10.jpg heres a pilbox style kufi http://www.wilsdom.com/store/media/white-kufi.jpg

not much of a difference eh?

it should also be noted that the word kipa and kufi are related as P in hebrew is also F and vowels are unimportant

the modern day prefernce for small kippot is a fashion thing, it doesnt make larger ones(which are more traditional) not kippot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 23:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Gymnophobia
It is absolutely appalling that "Gymnophobia" redirects to the page for "Modesty." It's a medically-recognized condition and to delete it from wikipedia entirely, aside from a NPOV mention in this article ("critics refer to this type of modesty as ... gymnophobia" is not just blatantly NPOV, but smacks of religious fundamentalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.5.184 (talk) 06:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, this whole sentence, "Some critics refer to this type of modesty as body shame," is nonsense. It's plainly not NPOV, and it's horrendously vague. "Some critics refer to this type of modesty as body shame." Really? Who? No citation except to a plainly non-NPOV website. I've removed the whole thing.

Dgoodmaniii (talk) 15:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The examples and perspective in this article or section may not represent a worldwide view. Please [ improve the article] or discuss the issue on the this page. Can anyone tell me the difference between a kippah and a yarmulke? -- The Anome 16:24, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC) There is no difference, apart from the fact that one is Modern Hebrew and the other is Yiddish. The word Yarmulke has been linked etymologically to the Hebrew phrase Yarei mei-Elokah (in awe of the Lord)Jfdwolff 23:47, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have removed this, as it seems to represent views that are idiosyncratic nonsense:
 * Some believe that female body modesty is the work of feminism to some extent, and some believe that it causes some of the same things that masculists believe feminism causes.

Eh? -- Anon.

The first External Link needs to balanced with a link to a site for the opposing POV. -- Anon. 2

Section removed to talk
Removed this text from the article:
 * ==Safety hazards of modesty==
 * In many situations, modesty is wise, but there are some situations where modesty can cause harm, e.g. it has often been said that "people would rather die than take their clothes off in public". With the recent bioterror attacks, the ability of people to accept being stripped and washed down may result in the saving of many lives.  It has therefore been suggested that work should be done to help society overcome problems with body image, in order to be better prepared for situations that might require disrobing in less than totally private situations.

This appears to me to be a rather strange paragraph. It takes a POV: "modesty is wise", and then another POV, "work should be done to help society overcome problems with body image, in order to be better prepared for situations that might require disrobing in less than totally private situations", which it intrroduces with the weasel words "It has therefore been suggested that". Who says that? When did they say it? Cite please? -- Karada 16:11, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"One meaning..."
The article seems to completly dodge the first mentioned modesty...

"One meaning is playing down or not mentioning one's own accomplishments, sometimes to the point of "false modesty", a form of boasting through excessive self-denigration.

The other meaning, also called body modesty, ..."

and takes up the rest of the page... Is this first meaning covered well enough by Humility? If so, should there not be a more obvious referal to it? Should I have just done the edit and not moaned about it here?

 * I moved the link to Humility to this small paragraph. You are welcome to expand on this meaning.--Patrick 09:16, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

recasting needed
The whole #Controversy section needs to be torn down and rewritten. It plays up a controversy that, I would wager, does not cross the minds of the majority of human beings who are perfectly happy with their cultural norm of modesty. It places the view of the "critics" front and center without giving any indication of who they are, whence they come, and how many they number. It ignores anthropological and zoological explanations for differing modesty norms (e.g. Desmond Morris's explanation that the habit of wearing clothing stems from the stance of human beings which, alone among the primates, puts the genitals on constant display). It does not touch on the effects of climate, nor on the correlation between norms of modesty and norms of sexuality. The "Western norm" is the only one described fully (and in a very general fashion, ignoring the real cultural variations between Western countries), while others are only mentioned in relation to that Western norm—and even then, vast areas and multitudes are simply passed over. History is non-existent; there is no discussion, even in the description of western norms, of how norms of modesty can vary over time.

I've listed this page on WikiProject Countering systemic bias open tasks in the hopes of attracting some badly-needed attention. —Charles P. (Mirv) 1 July 2005 18:35 (UTC)

Article should be split
Most of this page needs to be moved. While modesty of the body is a proper definition of modesty, it is a rather recent definition of the word, and applies mostly to a limited group. Most dictionaries say relatively little about this type of modesty. I believe it would be good to move the majority of the article to a separate page dedicated to the more limited concept of "body modesty". This would also make the main article more likely to be improved and expanded. --EthanL 17:38, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

On second thought, it might not be best to split it. There's not a whole lot can be said about modesty, unless it's the particular type of modesty which most of this article deals with. Upon searching for references to "body modesty", I find very little. Obviously it's not a common term, so there's no sense making an article by that name. Perhaps a few modifications to the article are in order, rather than a split. If nobody else steps forward, perhaps I can come up with some improvements. --EthanL 10:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

 * The entire article appears to be written by someone with an axe to grind. Then there is the curious addition of a very specific (and clearly pie-in-the-sky) paragraph about what Islamic modesty is supposedly about. I added my two pence worth which will hopefully speed its deletion by pointing out its absurdity. And where is the paragraph on the modesty of Zen-Buddhists? Wahkeenah 11:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Body Modesty
I did some searching on Google for references to Body Modesty. They were quite rare - rare enough to possibly qualify this as a neologism. Also, the vast majority of the top Google links were to copies of this article! In an attempt to make the article a bit more mainstream, I changed Body Modesty to Sexual Modesty, which has a much wider acceptance, at least according to Google. This term seems to describe things just as well, if not better. Any opinions? EthanL 09:46, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. My opinion is that the entire article is a point-of-view push and should be deleted. Wahkeenah 12:40, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * True, it does contain POV material, but wouldn't it be better to clean it up rather than delete it? I'm working on it as I'm able, but I don't always have much time.  Contributions are always welcome! EthanL 03:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I won't weasel out by saying I don't have time. I'll just say it's not worth the time and effort. This article is the work of somebody who thinks modesty is bad. Plain and simple. There's no getting around it. Wahkeenah 12:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It seems better to distinguish an inclination to cover the skin from an analysis regarding the possible sexual background of this inclination, and/or an inclination not to exhibit sexual behavior. For example, a nudist may avoid showing affection, and on the other hand a couple in love may show much affection in public but fully clothed.--Patrick 01:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * In other words, it's situational. Wahkeenah 12:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Islam & Modesty
The entire presentation of Islam & modesty is so wrong as to merit deletion. There are no sources cited, e.g. that the death penalty applied under Taliban rule (incorrect), or that "most" Muslims interpret the religion to imply that a women can only expose their hands and face (incorrect, salafist), and so on. The situation has many aspects, e.g. is "most" counted by Mullahs, national dress codes, or followers? Does Iqbal, the primary theological scholar responsible for the founding of Pakistan, have the same weight as al-taribrizi or al-banna? Do the 1 billion Muslims outside the M-E count? Furthermore, in Iran, the only real islamic theocracy, it is normal to see women who e.g. breastfeed, while this is not usual or traditional in N.America (West) -- no context is given in article, in particular wrt public vs. non-mahram vs. private. Furthermore, the article states Modesty describes a set of culturally determined values, then goes on to describe religions (Islam, Judaism) that exist in practically every culture on Earth. Modesty is neither a purely religious nor cultural value, and religion does not equal culture. Lastly, the entire article has a nihilistic western secular rationalist bent to it.

Is there anyone actually living in the islamic world that wishes to comment? 24.86.203.199 09:42, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you could help out - you're welcome to contribute, just so long as you provide source references. The whole article needs attention, as your comment makes clear.  You might just be the one to provide that much needed attention. EthanL 03:16, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved from Talk_talk:Modesty
I find it odd that Orthodox Jewish opinion concerning a yarmulka is not about modesty, when, in fact, the Jewish code of Law (shulchan Orach Harav 2:6) clearly states that a head covering is due to tznieus. (comment by user:Mordechai7215)

 * I don't know why that is even mentioned in the article. I don't know what the word "tznieus" means, let alone how to say it, but as far as I know the yarmulka has to do with "humbling oneself before God", not anything to do with modesty whatsoever. Modesty has to do with humans interacting with each other, not about humans interacting with God. Wahkeenah 15:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * He meant צניעות - Churchh 17:59, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Eurocentrism
This article is highly Eurocentric, esp. in reguard to the headings. It should probably be rewritten to remone this bias.12.17.189.77 03:00, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * What's stopping you from doing it? (Although you might want to proofread your work). Wahkeenah 05:38, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Wearing more than the Western norm section
The section on "Wearing more than the Western norm" has some problems with the way Islamic modesty is addressed (as already mentioned on this talk page). As such I added a dispute tag. Also the discussion of Catholic and Mormon modesty was somewhat inaccurate. The Catholic paragraph seems to imply, when it says "Catholics, especially women, must dress modestly", that their is some international law that applies to specifically Catholics regarding modesty. I corrected it to make it clear what we are really talking about is the Catholic church's teachings on modesty. The sentence on Mormon modesty gave the misleading impression that all Mormons adhere to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints modesty code. I corrected it so that it states that the church has a modesty code but not to incorrectly imply that no Mormon ever violates it. --Cab88 17:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Instead of flagging it and expecting someone else to fix what you have a problem with, why don't you fix it? Wahkeenah 18:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Coherence of article
I think the problems flagged up on "Eurocentricism" and the wider coverage of some religious / cultural perspectives is because the article collates a number of different views which do not warrant a whole separate page. I thought the section on Islam was very limited at first, but that is because there is a whole load of other stuff on Wikipedia on the hijab / naqib (btw I altered some of this section as it referred to the burqa which is in fact a specific name for the garment worn in Afghanistan), whereas Catholic modesty seems to have been given a great deal of coverage (excuse the pun) here. There does seem to be a rather vocal fisheaters contingent, which makes for rather disjointed paragraphs - "Some say this. Others say this.  However, some yet say this". I did not delete any of it because it is technically all valid; the point I'm making is that the the whole basis of the article lacks a certain coherence. --SianMycock 00:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Heavy Reorganization
I've tried to address some of the repeated concerns of various posters about Eurocentrism. The complaint seemed well-founded and ought to have been fixed, and since those expressing concern did not fix it, I made the attempt.

I first categorized what was formerly titled something along the lines of "Western Norms" as norms generally accepted in most of the world. I think this is a just characterization; those general outlines of behavior seem to me (from my experience, anyway) to be fairly widespread, and one appearing in this way would be acceptable in most parts of the world.

I then outlined some of the prominent exceptions to the rules, including Australian and aboriginal Australian cultures, Muslims, Jews, and Catholics. These were made subsections under the "religious and cultural differences" section.

I wasn't sure what to do with the brief mentions of the Amish, Sikhs, and Mormons. I finally decided that the information was so sparse and added so little to the article that they should be simply removed. What had been there told us practically nothing about them and only linked to the Wikipedia article about the group in general, which is interesting but not really topical. So I took them out. I would certainly be interested in seeing all of these groups, and more besides, added in, but what was there simply wasn't helpful and I know little or nothing about any of them myself, at least in regards to modesty. I'd encourage anyone who does know about them to add them back in.

If anyone thinks this judgment was in error, please add them back in. I won't make a fuss about it.

I thought about beefing up the Islamic section, but as another talker has pointed out, the wikilinks in that section seem to pretty much cover the whole ground.

Dgoodmaniii 05:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I added a bit about some previously widely practiced Jewish practices of modesty that somehow few are aware of these days. Unfortantely I don't know how to properly put in references... so, in case someone wants to help.. here are a some more references:

Mishneh Torah - Hilkhoth Ishuth 24:11

"These are the matters that if she did one of them, she transgressed the 'faith of Moses:'

She went out in the shuq [marketplace] and the hair of her head was exposed,.."

Mishneh Torah in Sefer Nashim in Hilkhoth Ishuth 24:12

"...What is meant by 'the Jewish faith?' It is the practice of modesty that the 'Daughters of Israel' are accustomed to. And these are the things that if she does one of them, she transgresses the 'Jewish religion:'

She goes out to the marketplace or to a passage way with openings at each end while her head is uncovered and without a reh'dheedh [long descending veil / cloth-material] on her as all the women, even though her hair is covered in a scarf / handkerchief,

Or that she was spinning [fabric] in the market and [there is a] rose or something similar on her face, on her forehead, or on her cheek, as is the way the immodest idolatrous women do,

Or that spins [fabric] in the shuq [marketplace] and shows her forearms to people.."

Halakha 13 of chapter 12:

"Azra made an edict that a woman / wife (same word in Hebrew) should always have a belt in [her] see'nar (britches) while in her house, because of modesty. And if she didn't put on a belt, she has not transgressed the 'faith of Mosha,' and she does not relinquish her kethubah."

There are many more references, though I do not have the specific locations memorized off hand. I'll try to post them soon.

Omedyashar 22:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Update on references: OLAMOT SHEL TOHAR (Worlds of PURITY)

__________________________________________________

THE JEWISH WOMAN IN RABBINIC LITERATURE A Psychosocial Perspective by Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) (Hoboken, N.J: Ktav Publishing House, 1986) p. 239., 77, pp. 316-317. Also see Swidler, op. cit., pp. 121-123., p. 139.

__________________________________________________

Page Shin Lamed in Mori Qafehh's edition of Mishneh Torah with commentary, Sefer Qedusha - Isurei Biah chapter 21 halakha 17:

(Note Kaf Hhet) Tractate Ketuvoth page Ayin Bet - alef. From what is taught/learned in the school/yeshiva of Ribi Yishmael there is a warning to the daughters of Israel, that they shouldn't go out with their head uncovered. Our teacher (Rabeinu [Rambam]) learned/taught [from this]: 'whether one available/unmarried or married.' Therefore he made no distinction between an older woman or a little girl; And [quf resh '' mem] Qriat Melekh. (Rav Shin YudHet Qaniveski) wrote regarding the 'available/unmarried one' in NUN SHIN ALAF in Sefreh siman Yud Alaf, -- [** writes] that it is like this [mashmA ken]] I found a proof from Tamar, that she was a pnuyah (available/unmarried); And look into Tractate Nedarim page Lamed - bet: "and minors (qatanim) forever [should]...etc..";  And [look into] Tosafot there [on this Gemara]; and look into Tractate Eruvin page Quf - bet: "wrapped up like a mourner;" What is it [maihu] TzadiAyin ( ???) in Mishna Ketuboth Tet Vav - bet, "...and her head is uncovered, (until here/ahd kan - ayin''kaf) -- and it's a difficulty for this [idea?] (qasha leh) according to Rashi concerning "uncovered hair upon her shoulders from her father's house to her grooms house;" However, there is no conclusive proof to this / can't draw a conclusion from this, and it could be that she goes out from the courtyard of her house for only one small hour for some ceremony like it was the custom in Yemen [among the Jews?], and as I describe in my book Halikhoth Teimon page 134. vav lamed quf '' mem.

_____________________________________________ In the photo section of Mori Yosef Qafehh's book Halikhot Teimon one sees how Yemenite Jewish women of the area of Sa'ana dressed in private and in public. They wore a radheedh in public which they would pull over their face leaving their eyes exposed, when they would encounter a man with whom they were unfamiliar. The style of Jewish women's hair/head-covering in Yemen was very clearly distinct from the style of the muslim women. The Jewish women of Sa'ana area placed the radheedh on top of the gargoush - a hood type haircovering which was slightly coned at the top.

There is a book in English called "The Yemenites: 2,000 years of Jewish History," with photos showing how Jewish women of other regions in Yemen dressed/dress.

________________________________________

Israel & Ishmael ( Studies in Muslim - Jewish Relations) Edited by Tudor Parfitt in chapter titled "Cover Her Face:" Jewish Women & Veiling in Islaamic Civilisation by Yedida K. Stillman pages 13 - 29 [also includes a chapter on the Hemerayit Kingdom of Yemen]

Pictures of female Jewish dress (references learned from the above book):

Jewish woman in Smyrna, Turky in late 1700's/early 1800's; painting of Jewish woman indoors -- hair covered face exposed/ outdoors -- only eyes exposed; From "A History of Jewish Costume, 1973, page 42; A. Rubens.

Actual photo of Jewish woman in Baghdad, Iraq wearing a radheedh which the Jews there called khiliy and the Muslims called pica -- from "Album of Jewry of Iraq," A. Twena Ramla, 1981 p.171

Actual photo of a group of several Jewish women from Tunis, Tunisia in early 20th century visiting a cemetary, all but one wearing traditional dress - consists of a large radheedh called 'tantar,' which sits on top of a cone type hat the women wear underneath it; The radheedh practically covers them entirely; from Robert Attal. [Here is a similar and clearly related photo I found online: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/pages/J12I276T.jpg ]

Actual photo of Jewish Berber woman from Tafilatt/lt?, Morocco wearing radheedh; Jean Besancenot Collection.

Actual photo: Rabat - Les mellahs de Rabat - Sale', Paris 1927; J. Goulven. Omedyashar 19:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

what
this needs to have more anwsers to things.

 * Deep. Rich Farmbrough, 23:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC).

Changes on Systemic Bias Listing
I went ahead and changed the article's listing on systemic bias, in light of the corrections to Western bias that have been discussed above. The article still suffers from such bias, and needs to be repaired, but it's better than it used to be, and I thought that the extremely uncomplementary entry on the Systemic Bias List should reflect that.

Dgoodmaniii 13:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Lots of Reorganization and Source Adding
Okay, not enough source adding. But a lot, still.

Anyway, in my continuing efforts to get this page removed from the bias list by removing its Western bias, I pretty much completely overhauled the structure of the article. I removed the "controversy" section, as some of it was related to a specific culture, which I though should be added to the "cultural norms" section, and the rest was just general information that seemed to me to be introductory material. So I moved those parts to their appropriate places.

I divided up "cultural" norms from "religious" norms, because they're different. I.e., Western norms vary greatly according to culture (the Finns are different from the French are different from the Canadians etc., independently of the religion), but religious norms also vary greatly even within a given cultural norm. So I separated them, and moved the Finnish sauna stuff to be an exception to what we've classed as general Western norms.

I added some sources about Finnish saunas; also some additional sources to the Catholic section, and a new "other Christian" section (lest I use the word "Protestant" and someone object, in order to avoid any controversy). I wanted to add some of the Biblical information on modesty in, but I haven't yet decided where that would belong. I placed the Catholic and "other Christian" sections as subsidiaries to a "Trinitarian Christian" section, thus avoiding the whole "are Mormons Christians or not" question, because everyone agrees that Mormons are not trinitarian. I did this also solely in order to avoid controversy, and fervently hope that it doesn't engender any. If Wikipedia already has an established policy on this question, please let me know and I'll rectify the situation immediately. I left the Mormon, Jewish, and Islamic modesty sections where they were.

This reorganization also enabled me to remove the "external links" section, which only had one link anyway, as I used the one there as a source in the "other Christian" section, where it seemed appropriate.

If anyone objects to any of these changes, as usual, here's the place to go after them. Thanks; I hope this helps. If anybody thinks we're good enough to get out of the bias list, let me know, but I think several sections will need considerable beefing before that happens.

Dgoodmaniii 09:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Reversion
An anonymous user reverted all these edits, plus several that had come before, returning the article to a much earlier version. If that person is here, please explain this action; I'm interested in your justification. If others think it was a good idea, please chime in. Otherwise, I think I'll revise it all back. The changes I and these others made aren't perfect, but I think they were still clearly better than the original. Dgoodmaniii 11:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

After looking over it, I think that the revert should be reverted. I also request a few little changes. It seems like the controversy and finnish sections got left out in the big changes that you made. Maybe those should be put back. Seemed to have valuable and referenced info. Other than these small sections, your changes seem a great improvement to me. Wrad 14:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the content of the controversy section was just moved to other places, including the Finnish section. I think I'll go ahead and revert it back. Uh...just have to figure out how to do so... Dgoodmaniii 16:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I wondered if I might have missed it. Just compare the two pages to each other via the history tab and click "undo". Wrad 16:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured it out. As always, if the user who made the reversion wishes to defend it, I'd be more than happy to hear his reasons here. Dgoodmaniii 17:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Name
Modest is also a first name. Maybe a directory page should be created.

"Children normally stop going to the sauna with their parents by age six or seven"
"Children normally stop going to the sauna with their parents by age six or seven though this age has sometimes been higher in the past and has varied regionally."

Didn't see any source for that statement, and being finnish myself, I think that is false. I don't know if there's any statistics for the age, and of course it varies regionally, people in bigger cities probably starting to go to sauna intependently earlier, but me, and most of my friends and relatives have stopped going to sauna with their parents at the age of about 10-14, strongly correlating with the start of puberty, though many girls don't ever stop going to sauna with their mothers. After the puberty is over people usually start to go to sauna with their same-gender family members, though usually they are living on their own by that time and thus have not many possibilities to do so.

Also "This is true even though some sort of swimsuit is generally required in pool areas." I have to note that in pool areas, going to sauna with a swimsuit is often forbidden. Swimsuits are supposed to be soaked with pool water, which includes chlorine. Chlorine gas being poisonous it's easy to see why it is forbidden.

And "It should be noted that men and women generally do not bathe together in the sauna unless they are related." is generally true. However, for teenagers and young adults going to sauna with the members of opposite gender is not unheard of, at least if the people are having a "sauna night", a typical way of spending a weekend evening: drinking, chatting and going to sauna. This is even more true if the group consists of close friends or at least few people who have mutual attraction. The sauna itself, though, is still a non-sexists place, even if you see members of the opposite gender naked. It is considered really rude to stare.

213.250.104.144 14:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Heavy Non-NPOV Editing
Most of the section labeled "Codification" was clearly from a non-NPOV and I've removed it as such. Besides that, it was almost entirely uncited, except for sections that were taken out of the "Catholic Modesty" section and transplanted into this "Codification" section. While the citation to Webster's was present prior to that section being added, it didn't seem to add much, so I removed that, too. It made no sense to include the "Some Christians writers" part in this section, so I moved that back into the Christianity section.

Regarding the Christianity section, the reason I originally divided it into Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian sections was to avoid a flame war over whether Mormons are really Christians or not. Everyone agrees that they're not Trinitarian Christians (so far as I can tell, anyway), so I divided it up that way. No one has objected to it here, so I restored that arrangement.

Having to reintegrate some of the moved "Some Christian authors" section out of "Codification" led to a reconsideration of the format of the Catholic section. This was therefore edited substantially.

Discussion on any of these changes is, of course, welcome.

Dgoodmaniii (talk) 16:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

General principles
Not to split hairs, especially as I haven't really gone through this article, but after reading through the bullet list at its beginning I notice that the sentence "Avoiding the display of one's body, sexuality especially in public." might be confused as either
 * "Avoiding the display of one's body or sexuality, especially in public"
 * "Avoiding the display of one's body in a sexual manner, especially in public"

Perhaps it should be slightly reworded in whichever fashion is correct? Jamestttgrays (talk) 01:37, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I changed it to the first, but with "and".--Patrick (talk) 06:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Not true in Europe, only in the US
The application of the standards of modesty at an early age is most noticeable on a public beach when baby girls, even before they can walk, are dressed in two-piece bikinis.

This is only true in the US, but certainly not in mainland Europe.

Little boys and girls usually have their genitalia covered on public beaches at around 2 - 4 years old.

Girls usually cover the places where their breasts will develop after 8 - 10 years old.

Citation, please.
This sentence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me: "Fashions and fads at times test the limits of community standards of modesty. People can be subjected to peer pressure, both to conform to community standards or to flout them." A cited source might help... Thoughts?Lily20 (talk) 22:09, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

New Photo Illustrating Intercultural Differences
I've added a new photo to illustrate intercultural differences in body modesty. I welcome others' feedback. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mzanon (talk • contribs) 20:26, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

People called Modesty
Modesty Blaise could be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.231.182.113 (talk) 03:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

The Catholic Church's expectations on Modesty
As it is now, the article states:

"The Church also expects men to dress modestly, but the demands are not as strict for them as for women; this is largely because men are often thought to be more inherently susceptible to sexual thoughts."

The demands are just as strict. There are just fewer culturally accepted violations of it for men therefore it gets less attention.

It is uncited and without basis so I am removing it. LaRoza (talk) 17:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Body modesty
Dear various IP, as you did tonight the umptieth deletion of "strangers of the same sex" stated with the reason "we don't do that" please note that this is not an article on a special cultural oder religious group. So who is "we"? The context reads ''Standards of modesty vary by culture or generation and vary depending on who is exposed, which parts of the body are exposed, the duration of the exposure, the context, and other variables. The categories of persons who could see another's body could include: … '' In some context and situations it is okay for people to disrobe or robe in presence of other people of the same sex or show them parts of the body. Fullstop. --Turris Davidica (talk) 10:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Modesty in Men
The intro emphasizes girl's modesty expectations more than men's. For example, it brings up what swimwear is considered modest, specifies who women are allowed to talk to to be considered modest, and describes Muslim schoolgirls laxed circumstances. In order for this article to begin from a gender neutral standpoint, it needs to include both male and female definitions of modesty. Kylanmalady (talk) 07:51, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Body Modesty Concerning Social Class
In the article under the "Body" section, there are four categories of people who can see someones body without it being immodest, and one of these categories is "people of the same social class." Social class seems irrelevant to whether or not a certain way of conducting oneself/dressing is immodest. For example, it wouldn't make sense to say that rich people think short skirts are immodest while poor people don't. There's no evidence to back it up. If this is a legitimate claim, it needs citations to back it up and examples to clarify exactly what it means.Kylanmalady (talk) 08:06, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Sources to be used to add citations
The following are sources about islam, amish, and gymnophobia and can help in adding citations to this article.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=12335

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/21/modesty-part-1/

http://islam.about.com/od/dress/f/hijab_girls.htm

A return to modesty : discovering the lost virtue by Wendy Shalit

http://www.religionfacts.com/amish Kylanmalady (talk) 19:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Amish and Modesty
The Amish are a well known group of people known specifically for their conservative attire so I think the article should have a larger section on them.

http://www.religionfacts.com/amish

This article addresses their beliefs practices and history which should be briefly mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kylanmalady (talk • contribs) 19:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Generally accepted Eastern norms
I was thinking of adding a section for Eastern Norms on this page for a class, however, many of the sources and ideas are western based and referring to nudity. Would anyone else be able to add to it or make changes?TRacer202 (talk) 04:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Adding to Necessity
The "Necessity" paragraph needs to be futher explained and re-written. For example "At times of public or private emergency, expectations of modest dress may be suspended if necessary" This is just strangely written and should definitely be rephrased and elaborated on. Lisfry (talk) 01:24, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Modesty Today
I thinking of adding a sectioning or elaborating more on how modesty is seen today. As norms are ever-changing it is sometimes hard to keep up with what is or is not seen as modest. Sbenedict14 (talk)

Origins of Modesty in Regards to Women
I've removed the above section, which was added by one of the students I oversaw this past semester. I tried seeing if there was a way to merge or rewrite the content, but it just came across too strongly as original research. If anyone wants to try their hand, I've linked to the revision above. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:46, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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"Body shame" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Body shame. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 2 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hildeoc (talk) 02:45, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Paragraph needs source and clarification
I’ve moved this paragraph here (out of the article) in case anyone wants to work on it. It’s currently unsourced and obscurely written. It may be about the way female characters are portrayed when films are made based on fairy tales, but I can’t really tell so I haven’t tried to update it in the article. "Many fairytales and other related media feature women from or of ethnic origin from Western Europe and Northern Europe to be demure due to their typically soft features. Famous examples include Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Little Red Riding Hood, Wendy Darling from Peter Pan, Maid Marian from Robin Hood, Christine Daaé from The Phantom of the Opera, Ophelia from Hamlet, and Dorothy Gale from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." —Northernhenge (talk) 20:05, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

German translation link questionable
This article links to the German article "Bescheidenheit" in the language switcher, which is confusing, as "modesty" as explained in this article sounds more like what most Germans would call "Prüderie" instead. —Feeela (talk) 14:55, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. Modesty can be translated with "Anspruchslosigkeit", "Anstand", "Bescheidenheit", Sittsamkeit", whereas "Prüderie" ("prudery") has a pejorative character. From the given possibilities I should rather choose "Sittsamkeit".--Medusahead (talk) 09:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Modesty


text:
Janko Peric

Janko Perić (born February 24, 1949), is a former Canadian politician. Perić was the Liberal Party MP for the riding of Cambridge from 1993 to 2004.

He was born in Orehovica near Bedekovčina, Croatia and was a welder.

Perić was defeated in the 2004 federal election by Gary Goodyear of the Conservative Party, with a margin of 224 votes. Perić tried to win his seat back in the 2006 federal election, but lost by almost 6000 votes.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Janko Peric


text:
Aignerville

Aignerville is a former commune in the Calvados department in the Normandy region of northwestern France. On 1 January 2017, it was merged into the new commune Formigny La Bataille.

Geography
Aignerville is located in the Regional Natural Park of Marshes of Cotentin and Bessin, two kilometres north-west of Trevieres and 16 km east by north-east of Bayeux in the valley of the Aure. The commune is bisected in the northern part from west to east by Route nationale N13 Motorway (E46) which runs between Carentan and Bayeux. Aignerville village is reached by road D198 from Asnieres-en-Bessin in the north which passes through the length of the commune and the village and continues south to join the D124 on the southern border. The commune consists almost entirely of farmland with the villages of Carrefour-Berigot, La Grande Route, and Chapelle-Saint-Louis along the north of the motorway and Normanville, Hameau-Lair, La Croix-Toutin, and Aignerville to the south.

The Ruisseau-de-Formigny river flows from south to north through the commune into the Aure Interieur which flows from the east forming the south-eastern border of the commune. In the south of the commune is a network of irrigation canals which is the beginning of a much larger network outside the commune.

Administration
List of Successive Mayors of Aignerville

Population
The inhabitants of the commune are known as Aignervillais or Aignervillaises in French.

Sites and monuments

 * The Parish Church of Saint Peter dates from the 14th century and contains a Painting: The Judgement of Solomon (16th century) which is registered as an historical object.

title: Aignerville


text:
Airan

Airan is a former commune in the Calvados department in the Normandy region of northwestern France. On 1 January 2017, it was merged into the new commune Valambray.

Geography
Airan is located some 17 km south-east of Caen and 25 km east by south-east of Lisieux. It can be accessed from the D40 from Vimont in the north-west, passing through the south of the commune and continuing south-east to Vieux-Fumé. The D613 (Route de Paris) also from Vimont passes through the north of the commune and continues east to Crèvecœur-en-Auge. Neither road passes the village which can be accessed by the D47 road from Moult in the west which passes through the village then the heart of the commune before continuing south-east to Cesny-aux-Vignes. There is also the D43 road coming from the north through the village and continuing south to Fierville-Bray. The railway from Caen to Mézidon-Canon passes through the commune from west to east but there is no station in the commune. The nearest station is Bonafini to the west. The commune is quite large in extent and consists almost entirely of farmland with a few small patches of forest. Apart from the village there are also the hamlets of Le Haute-des-Pedouzes, Le Ruel, Valmeray, and Coupigny.

The Muance river forms part of the western border of the commune before it flows west then north to join the Dives river through a network of canals near Bures-sur-Dives. The Douet also rises in the north of the commune and forms part of the northern border before continuing north to join the Dives near Hernetot.

Toponymy
The name is of Continental Germanic origin in an area where such origins are rare (Heidram from the 9th century), possibly a personal name taken from Heidrammus or alternatively the name -ham preceded by an appellative or an unidentified person's name.

History
Archaeological excavations have uncovered the remains of a Merovingian necropolis. There is a legend of the famous Treasure of Airan.

In 1942, the resistance caused two derailments in the commune - on the night of 15 to 16 April and also on 30 April to 1 May. These two derailments left a total of forty dead and fifty wounded German soldiers who were on leave in these trains. Following this Nazi repression was brutal for many hostages: some were shot, others deported.

Administration
List of Successive Mayors of Airan

Population
The inhabitants of the commune are known as Airannais or Airannaises in French.

Civil heritage
The commune has a number of buildings and structures that are registered as historical monuments:
 * A Water Mill (1682) is typical of the Caen region.
 * The Chateau of Coupigny (18th century)
 * The Chateau of Coupigny Park (18th century)

 * Other sites of interest
 * Valmeray Tower and its surroundings are classified by DREAL Lower Normandy as an historical monument. The ruined tower is located in a hamlet near Airan. An old legend tells of a secret passage connecting the tower to the church at Airan. The legend also says that the old bell in gold from the church is hidden in the secret passage. Many people have tried to find it but without success.
 * The Alley of Lime Trees along the D43 is also registered with DREAL.

Religious heritage
The commune has several religious buildings and structures that are registered as historical monuments:
 * The Church of Saint Germain (12th century) has a Romanesque facade.

title: Airan


text:
Amayé-sur-Orne

Amayé-sur-Orne (, literally Amayé on Orne) is a commune in the Calvados department in the Normandy region of northwestern France.

Geography
Amayé-sur-Orne is located approximately 10 km south-west of Caen and 5 km east of Évrecy. It can be accessed by road D212 from Vieux in the north which continues south to Thury-Harcourt and by road D41 from Evrecy in the west which continues to Clinchamps-sur-Orne in the east. Closely located to the town are a number of hamlets including: Saint-Lambert, La Butte, Le Pont du Coudray, and Les Godets. These villages form a single conurbation with the village. The rest of the commune is entirely farmland.

The eastern border of the commune is formed by the Orne river. A stream, flows through the village and down to the Orne and another stream flowing to the Orne forms the southern boundary of the commune. The Guigne stream forms the northern border of the commune and also flows to the Orne.

Administration

List of Successive Mayors of Amayé-sur-Orne

Twinning
Amayé-sur-Orne has twinning associations with:
 * 🇩🇪 Johannesberg (Germany) since 1991.

Population
Its inhabitants are known as Amayéens or Amayéennes in French.

Sites and Monuments
The Bell Tower Attic of the Church of Notre Dame hosts breeding colonies of large bats and is a registered Site of Community Importance (SIC)
 * The Ifs Cemetery is a listed site (SC 9 January 1933)
 * The 'Butte de l'Orne is another World Heritage Site (SC 9 January 1933)
 * A Lavoir (Public laundry)
 * The Chateau de la Butte (19th century)
 * The Chateau de Vaux (18th century)

title: Amayé-sur-Orne


text:
Amayé-sur-Seulles

Amayé-sur-Seulles (, literally Amayé on Seulles) is a commune in the Calvados department in the Normandy region of northwestern France.

Geography
Amayé-sur-Seulles is located four kilometres west of Villers-Bocage and 20 kilometres south of Bayeux in the Seulles valley. It can be accessed by road D71 coming west from Villers-Bocage through the heart of the commune and village and continuing west to Caumont-l'Evente. The road D193 running west from Cahagnes to Villers-Bocage forms the southern boundary of the commune. The road D215 also starts from the hamlet of Saint-German in the commune and runs south-west to Tracy-Bocage. There are also many small country roads in the commune. In addition to the village there are also the hamlets of Saint-German to the east and La Vallee to the north of the village. The commune consists entirely of farmland.

La Seulles river passes through the northern part of the commune and Le Calichon which forms the northern boundary of the commune flows into it. Another stream which rises near the village flows north forming part of the eastern boundary of the commune and also joins La Seulles. In the south-east the Ruisseau du Caudray forms the south-eastern boundary of the commune and flows eastwards to join La Seulline river. The Ruisseau de Pont Chouquet flows into the Caudray and forms part of the eastern boundary of the commune.

Administration
List of Successive Mayors of Amayé-sur-Seulles

Population
The inhabitants of the commune are known as Amayéens or Amayéennes in French.

Sites and Monuments

 * The Church of Saint-Vigor (15th century) belonged to the Abbey of Cerisy. It contains two items which are registered as historical objects:
 * A Statue: Virgin and child (16th century)
 * A Retable: Virgin and child (18th century)
 * The Chateau of Bosq (18th century)
 * The Clos d'Orval cider farm with an exhibition of old cider-making equipment.

title: Amayé-sur-Seulles


text:
MMO

MMO may refer to:

Entertainment

 * Massively multiplayer online game, a video game that can be played by many people simultaneously
 * Music Minus One, a record company in Westchester, New York

Science and technology

 * Methane monooxygenase, an enzyme
 * Maximum operating Mach number
 * Mercury Magnetospheric Orbiter, a component of the Mercury mapper BepiColombo
 * Mini-Mag Orion, a proposed type of spacecraft propulsion
 * Mixed metal oxide, a class of materials often used in electrodes

Other

 * Means, motive, and opportunity, the "indicators of suspicion"
 * Minimum municipal obligation, minimum contribution to a pension plan
 * Maio Airport, in Cape Verde, IATA code
 * Melton Mowbray railway station, England (National Rail station code MMO)
 * Marine Management Organisation, UK government body
 * Marine mammal observer, a professional in environmental consulting

title: MMO


text:
Amayé

Amayé may refer to the following places in Calvados, France:

 * Amayé-sur-Orne
 * Amayé-sur-Seulles

title: Amayé


text:
Susan Fleming

Susan Alva Fleming (February 19, 1908 – December 22, 2002) was an American actress and the wife of comic actor Harpo Marx and sister in law to Groucho, Chico, Zeppo and Gummo. Fleming was known as the "Girl with the Million Dollar Legs" for a role she played in the W. C. Fields film Million Dollar Legs (1932). Her big stage break, which led to her Hollywood career, was as a Ziegfeld girl, performing in Rio Rita.

Career
Fleming was from New York City and went to school in Forest Hills, Queens. After starring in the Ziegfeld Follies productions on Broadway, she started appearing in movies with The Ace of Cads, in which she appeared under the name Suzanne Fleming. One of her earliest film roles was a starring role in The Range Feud as Judy Walton, the love interest of John Wayne. Fleming combined her dancing and cinematic interests in the 1932 movie Million Dollar Legs, in which she played the daughter of W. C. Fields's character. As part of a publicity stunt for the film, her legs were insured for the eponymous million dollars.

Fleming was unhappy with Hollywood, stating in a 1995 interview that she found "nothing more boring than working on a movie... I hated it!".

Personal life
"I first met Harpo at a party as is typical in Hollywood. I sat next to him and Fanny Brice. He had taken her to the party because he felt she would be entertaining, and he loved to be entertained."

At a dinner party held in the home of Samuel Goldwyn in 1932, Fleming was seated next to Harpo Marx and found him fascinating. Despite his silent persona in films, she found Marx to be "a warm, fun, darling man to talk to". She pursued him relentlessly, dating for four years and proposing marriage to him on three occasions before he accepted. She ended her Hollywood career when she married Marx on September 28, 1936. Fleming's wedding to Marx was revealed to the public when President of the United States Franklin D. Roosevelt sent the couple a telegram of congratulations in November. Marx had sent a thank you letter to Roosevelt in appreciation for a signed photograph of the President, in which Marx had stated that he was "in line for congratulations, too, having been married since September" in an unspecified "little town up North".

Fleming was happy to leave show business, serving as Marx's "valet" and raising their four children, whom they had adopted. In addition to his widespread interest in playing musical instruments, including his trademark harp, Fleming helped foster her husband's interest in painting; she would make elaborate frames for his paintings, as well as creating her own works of art. The two collected many artworks, which Fleming donated widely after her husband's death. In 1956, they moved to Rancho Mirage, California, with three out of the four other Marx Brothers; Gummo, Zeppo and Groucho building homes nearby.

Fleming became active in local community affairs, was the first woman on the board of College of the Desert and was elected to the Palm Springs Unified School District Board of Education.

Harpo Marx died at age 75 on September 28, 1964, their 28th wedding anniversary. Following his death, Fleming became more involved in local activities, including the local League of Women Voters. She became an advisory planning commissioner for Rancho Mirage, California, and headed an organization dedicated to preserving development on the fragile desert hillsides. She served a total of 18 years on the district board of education and ran and lost in a campaign for the California State Assembly. Honoring her contributions, a Golden Palm Star on the Palm Springs, California, Walk of Stars was dedicated to her in 2002.

In a 1981 decision later overruled by the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in a case brought by Fleming, federal judge William C. Conner ruled that the producers of A Day in Hollywood / A Night in the Ukraine had improperly used the Marx Brothers characters in their Broadway theatre production and that the publicity rights of the comedians, even after their deaths, overrode the First Amendment issues raised by the show's creators. In April 1980, Conner refused to issue a preliminary injunction and allowed producer Alexander H. Cohen to open the show as planned.

Death
Fleming outlived Marx by almost forty years during which she was an artist and activist in the Palm Springs area. She died at age 94 on December 22, 2002, of a heart attack at Eisenhower Medical Center in Rancho Mirage. She died on the same day as her close friend, Mary De Vithas, her brother-in-law Chico Marx's second wife.

title: Susan Fleming


text:
HMS Kandahar

HMS Kandahar (F28) was a K-class destroyer built for the Royal Navy during the 1930s, named after the Afghan city of Kandahar.

Description
The K-class destroyers were repeats of the preceding J class, except that they were not fitted for minesweeping gear. They displaced 1690 LT at standard load and 2330 LT at deep load. The ships had an overall length of 339 ft, a beam of 35 ft and a draught of 9 ft. They were powered by Parsons geared steam turbines, each driving one propeller shaft, using steam provided by two Admiralty three-drum boilers. The turbines developed a total of 40000 shp and gave a maximum speed of 36 kn. The ships carried a maximum of 484 LT of fuel oil that gave them a range of 5500 nmi at 15 kn. The ship's complement was 183 officers and men.

The ships were armed with six 4.7-inch (120 mm) Mark XII guns in twin mounts, two superfiring in front of the bridge and one aft of the superstructure. For anti-aircraft (AA) defence, they had one quadruple mount for 2-pounder "pom-pom" guns and two quadruple mounts for the 0.5 inch Vickers Mark III anti-aircraft machinegun. The K-class ships were fitted with two above-water quintuple mounts for 21 in torpedoes. The ship was fitted with two depth charge throwers and one rack for 20 depth charges.

Construction and career
Kandahar was launched on 21 March 1939. On 21 February 1941, in company with sister ship HMS Kimberley (F50) and the cruiser HMS Manchester (15), she captured the German blockade runner SS Wahehe (1922) off Iceland. On 19 December 1941, she was part of British Force K, tasked to intercept an Italian convoy bound for Tripoli when she was irreparably damaged by a newly laid Italian mine whilst attempting to rescue the stricken cruiser HMS Neptune (20). She was scuttled the next day by the destroyer HMS Jaguar (F34). 73 men went down with the ship.

title: HMS Kandahar


text:
John D. Caputo

John David Caputo (born October 26, 1940) is an American philosopher who is the Thomas J. Watson Professor of Religion Emeritus at Syracuse University and the David R. Cook Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at Villanova University. Caputo is a major figure associated with postmodern Christianity and continental philosophy of religion, as well as the founder of the theological movement known as weak theology. Much of Caputo's work focuses on hermeneutics, phenomenology, deconstruction, and theology.

Education
Caputo received his BA in 1962 from La Salle University, his MA in 1964 from Villanova University, and his PhD in philosophy in 1968 from Bryn Mawr College.

Work
Caputo is a specialist in contemporary continental philosophy, with a particular expertise in phenomenology, hermeneutics, and deconstruction. Over the years, he has developed a deconstructive hermeneutics that he calls radical hermeneutics, which is highly influenced by the thought of the French philosopher Jacques Derrida. Additionally, Caputo has developed a distinctive approach to religion that he calls weak theology. Recently, his most important work has been to rebut the charges of relativism made against deconstruction by showing that deconstruction is organized around the affirmation of certain unconditional ethical and political claims.

Caputo has a special interest in continental approaches to the philosophy of religion. Some of the ideas Caputo investigates in his work include the "religion without religion" of Jacques Derrida; the "theological turn" taken in recent French phenomenology by Jean-Luc Marion and others; the critique of ontotheology; the dialogue of contemporary philosophy with Augustine of Hippo and Paul of Tarsus; and medieval metaphysics and mysticism. In the past, Caputo has taught courses on Søren Kierkegaard, Friedrich Nietzsche, Edmund Husserl, Martin Heidegger, Emmanuel Levinas, Gilles Deleuze, and Jacques Derrida.

Positions held
Caputo taught philosophy at Villanova University from 1968 to 2004. He was appointed the David R. Cook Professor of Philosophy at Villanova University in 1993. Caputo was the Thomas J. Watson Professor of Religion at Syracuse University, where he taught in both the departments of philosophy and religion from 2004 until his retirement in 2011. He is emeritus professor at both Villanova University and Syracuse University and continues to write and lecture in both the United States and Europe. He is active in the American Philosophical Association, the American Academy of Religion, the Society for Phenomenology and Existential Philosophy and he chairs the board of editors for the Journal for Cultural and Religious Theory.

Notable former students of Caputo

 * Theodore George
 * Michael Brogan
 * James K. A. Smith, professor, philosopher and theologian
 * Nythamar de Oliveira, professor, philosopher and theologian

title: John D. Caputo


text:
Irene Mathyssen

Irene R. Mathyssen (born August 16, 1951) is a Canadian politician and was a Member of Parliament in the House of Commons of Canada from 2006 until 2019. She was previously a New Democratic Party Member of Provincial Parliament (MPP) in Ontario from 1990 to 1995, and briefly served as a minister in the government of Premier Bob Rae.

Background
Mathyssen was educated at the University of Western Ontario from 1970 to 1975, receiving a Bachelor of Arts degree in English and Drama, and a Bachelor of Education degree. She taught English at Saunders Secondary School in London, Ontario, until 2006 except for a five-year break between 1990 and 1995 when she was an MPP. She served on the District 11 Ontario Secondary School Teachers' Federation Political Action Committee. She was a vocal opponent of the Invasion of Iraq in 2003 and participated in many local peace rallies. Mathyssen was a member of the Ontario Health Coalition. She was president of the Middlesex NDP riding association from 1989 to 1990.

Provincial politics
She was elected to represent the riding of Middlesex in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in the 1990 provincial election, defeating incumbent Liberal Doug Reycraft by 520 votes (out of 38,382 cast). She served as a government Whip from 1990 to 1991, and was a parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment from 1991 to 1994. In that capacity she announced that 6 million dollars would be spent on the cleanup of beaches in rural areas which were closed mostly due to agricultural runoff issues. In 1993, she voted against a government bill to allow a municipal expansion into her rural riding. During the debate she lamented about her lack of influence on the bill. She said, "There have been times when I felt utterly powerless in all of this. It's a strange feeling for one who came here with such high hopes."

On October 21, 1994, she was named a Minister without Portfolio, responsible for Culture, Tourism and Recreation.

The NDP was defeated by the Progressive Conservative Party in the 1995 provincial election, and Mathyssen was defeated in Middlesex, finishing third behind Reycraft and winner Progressive Conservative Bruce Smith.

She ran in the London—Fanshawe riding in the 1999 provincial election and placed third, behind PC candidate Frank Mazzilli and Liberal Peter Mancini. Mathyssen ran provincially in London—Fanshawe for a second time in the 2003 provincial election, and this time finished a strong second, losing to Liberal Khalil Ramal by fewer than 2,000 votes.

Federal politics
She ran for the federal New Democratic Party in the 1997 election, and finished third in the riding of London—Fanshawe, well behind Liberal incumbent Pat O'Brien. O'Brien won by more than 3,000 votes.

2006: Elected as MP
She again ran in London—Fanshawe in the 2006 election. Pat O'Brien had left the Liberal Party by this time, and sat out his remaining time in the House of Commons as an independent. He opted not to run in the 2006 election. Mathyssen won the riding with 34% of the vote, becoming one of 29 New Democrats elected.

During the session, she was named as the NDP critic for Housing and for the Status of Women. In November 2006, she tabled a Private member's bill which she called the Housing Bill of Rights which would have provided secure housing for Canadians. The bill got no further than its first reading. A similar bill proposed by Libby Davies in 2004 also died on the order paper.

During a parliamentary session on December 5, 2007, Mathyssen committed a blunder when she stood in the Commons and accused Conservative James Moore of looking at images of "scantily clad" women on his personal laptop computer at his desk in the House of Commons. She openly questioned his integrity and said his actions "disrespected women". James Moore denied the allegations were true. Later in the day, Mathyssen and Moore spoke in person about the incident; Moore explained that the woman he had been looking at on his laptop computer screen was his girlfriend. Shortly after, Mathyssen retracted her statement and apologized to Moore.

2008: Re-elected
Mathyssen was re-elected as the Member of Parliament for London-Fanshawe in the 2008 federal election. In that election, she was the only incumbent in the London region re-elected with increased total vote (17,672) and percentage of popular vote (43.1%). In addition to retaining her role as Status of Women critic, Mathyssen was also named the NDP's deputy critic for public safety, and in this role, she has been an advocate for Canadian firefighters. She also served as the NDP's deputy critic for Veterans' Affairs.

In December 2010, Mathyssen introduced Bill C-601, which allowed any worker who had lost their job through no fault of their own to make a single lump sum payment over the maximum allowable investment into their Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP) without financial penalty. It also ensured that workers would receive the maximum amount of Employment Insurance benefits for which they are eligible; workers would be able to collect EI immediately despite receiving severance pay.

2011: Re-elected
In the 2011 election, Mathyssen was re-elected with 50% of the popular vote, defeating Conservative candidate Jim Chahbar by over 7,000 votes. She was named the Official Opposition Critic for Seniors in the NDP’s shadow cabinet by Jack Layton. Despite the tradition of committee chairs going to government MPs, she served as chair of the House of Commons Committee on the Status of Women.

On January 1, 2012, Caterpillar Inc. locked out over 450 workers from the Electro Motive Diesel plant in Mathyssen’s riding of London-Fanshawe. Mathyssen was a vocal critic of the company’s actions and a strong supporter of the locked out workers. After the company announced it was closing the plant on February 3, Mathyssen put forward a motion in the House of Commons to amend the Investment Canada Act to prevent companies from taking these actions in the future.

In October 2013, Mathyssen introduced Bill C-282 to eliminate the HST on feminine hygiene products. The idea gained popular grassroots support, with a group called Canadian Menstruators organizing an online petition that rapidly attracted tens of thousands of signatures from across Canada. Mathyssen took the lead in the House of Commons for an NDP Opposition Day, introducing a motion to force a vote on the issue. The governing Conservatives initially tried to stall the effort promising to revisit the idea in the future, without a clear timeline. Mathyssen would not relent however, and with more than 74,000 Canadians having signed the petition, the Conservatives, with pressure mounting from their own female MPs threatening to not show up for the vote, changed course at the last moment. With the backing of MPs from all political parties in the House of Commons, Mathyssen's motion passed and the tax was eliminated on July 1, 2015.

2015: Re-elected
In October 2015, Mathyssen was re-elected for another term in parliament. Despite a strong "Stop Harper" campaign that led to increased voter turnout and sent a wave of popular support to Justin Trudeau's Liberals at the expense of the NDP, Mathyssen not only held her seat in London-Fanshawe, but retained almost all of the 20,000+ votes she received in 2011. NDP leader Tom Mulcair named Mathyssen the party's Critic for Veterans Affairs and the deputy whip for the caucus.

In August 2018, Mathyssen announced that she would be retiring from politics and would not seek re-election in the 2019 federal election.

title: Irene Mathyssen


text:
HMS King Edward VII

HMS King Edward VII, named after King Edward VII, was the lead ship of her class of pre-dreadnought battleships built for the British Royal Navy. Armed with a battery of four 12 in and four 9.2 in guns, she and her sister ships marked a significant advance in offensive power compared to earlier British battleship designs that did not carry the 9.2 in guns. King Edward VII was built at the Devonport Dockyard, and was laid down in March 1902, launched in July 1903, and completed in February 1905.

The ship entered service with the Atlantic Fleet as the fleet flagship before being transferred to the Channel Fleet in 1907, where she also served as the flagship. The Channel Fleet became the Home Fleet in 1909, where she remained for the next several years. During this period, the fleet was repeatedly reorganized, with King Edward VII ultimately ending up in the 3rd Battle Squadron by 1912, along with her sisters. The ships were sent to the Mediterranean during the First Balkan War to enforce the transfer of Scutari to Albania. Following the outbreak of the First World War in August 1914, the 3rd Battle Squadron became part of the Grand Fleet, where King Edward VII served for the next two years. The Grand Fleet conducted numerous sweeps into the North Sea in the hope of catching German vessels at sea, but rarely found action.

On the morning of 6 January 1916, while steaming to Belfast for a refit, King Edward VII struck a naval mine that had been laid by the German auxiliary cruiser SMS Möwe (1914). Attempts to tow King Edward VII to port failed when she took on a dangerous list, so she was abandoned and her crew evacuated to several destroyers. King Edward VII sank later that day.

Design

Following the development of pre-dreadnought type battleships carrying heavy secondary guns of 8 in diameter in the Italian Regia Marina and the United States Navy, the Royal Navy decided to build similar ships. Initial proposals called for a battleship equipped with eight 7.5 in guns to support the main battery, though under the direction of William Henry White, the Director of Naval Construction, these were replaced with four 9.2 in guns. The new ships, though based on the general Majestic-class battleship type that had formed the basis of the preceding four battleship designs, marked the first significant change in the series. Like all late pre-dreadnoughts that entered service in the mid-1900s, King Edward VII was made almost instantaneously obsolescent by the commissioning of the all-big-gun HMS Dreadnought (1906) in December 1906, armed with a battery of ten heavy guns compared to the typical four of most pre-dreadnoughts.

King Edward VII was 453 ft long overall, with a beam of 75 ft and a draft of 25 ft. The King Edward VII-class battleships displaced 15585 to 15885 LT normally and up to 17009 - 17290 LT fully loaded. Her crew numbered 777 officers and ratings. The King Edward VII-class ships were powered by a pair of 4-cylinder triple-expansion engines that drove two screws, with steam provided by sixteen water-tube boilers. The boilers were trunked into two funnels located amidships. The King Edward VII-class ships had a top speed of 18.5 kn from 18000 ihp.

King Edward VII had a main battery of four 12 in 40-calibre guns mounted in twin-gun turrets fore and aft. These were supported by a heavy secondary battery of four 9.2 in guns in four single turrets, two on each broadside. The ships also mounted ten 6 in 45-calibre guns mounted in casemates, in addition to fourteen 12-pounder 3 in guns and fourteen 3-pounder 47 mm guns for defence against torpedo boats. As was customary for battleships of the period, she was also equipped with five 18 in torpedo tubes submerged in the hull; two were on each broadside, with the fifth in the stern.

King Edward VII had an armoured belt that was 9 in thick; the transverse bulkheads on the aft end of the belt was 8 to 12 in thick. The sides of her main battery turrets were also 8 to 12 in thick, atop 12 in barbettes, and the 9.2 turrets had 5 to 9 in sides. The casemate battery was protected with 7 in of armour plate. Her conning tower had 12-inch-thick sides. She was fitted with two armoured decks, 1 and 2.5 in thick, respectively.

Pre-First World War

When King Edward VII was laid down at Devonport Dockyard on 8 March 1902, the first plate was laid by King Edward VII, who with his wife Queen Alexandra had just attended the naming and launching ceremony of HMS Queen (1902). King Edward VII was launched by her namesake on 23 July 1903 and was completed in February 1905. Edward VII consented to having King Edward VII carry his name on the condition that she always serve as a flagship. The Royal Navy honoured this wish throughout her career. King Edward VII was commissioned on 7 February at Devonport Dockyard for service as Flagship, Commander-in-Chief, Atlantic Fleet. She underwent a refit in 1906–1907, during which her superstructure 12-pounder guns were temporarily relocated to the top of her main battery turrets. Her Atlantic Fleet service ended when she paid off at Portsmouth Dockyard on 4 March 1907.

On 5 March, King Edward VII was recommissioned as flagship of Admiral Lord Charles Beresford, Commander-in-Chief, Channel Fleet. She underwent another refit at Portsmouth in 1907–1908. During this refit, her 12-pounders returned to their original locations, and the 3-pounders on her bridge were removed. Under a fleet reorganisation on 24 March 1909, the Channel Fleet became the 2nd Division, Home Fleet. Accordingly, King Edward VII was recommissioned as the Flagship, Vice Admiral, Home Fleet on 27 March. She underwent a refit at Portsmouth from December to February 1910. She was recommissioned at Portsmouth on 1 August 1911 as the Flagship, Vice Admiral, Third and Fourth Divisions, Home Fleet.

Under a fleet reorganisation in May 1912, King Edward VII and all seven of her sisters – HMS Africa (1905), HMS Britannia (1904), HMS Commonwealth (1903), HMS Dominion (1903), HMS Hibernia (1905), HMS Hindustan (1903), and HMS Zealandia – were assigned to form the 3rd Battle Squadron, assigned to the First Fleet, Home Fleet. King Edward VII was commissioned at Sheerness as the Flagship, Vice Admiral, 3rd Battle Squadron, First Fleet, Home Fleet, on 14 May 1912. The 3rd Battle Squadron was detached to the Mediterranean in November 1912 because of the First Balkan War (October 1912 – May 1913); it arrived at Malta on 27 November 1912 and subsequently participated, as part of an international force, in a blockade of Montenegro and in an occupation of Scutari to force the Macedonians to relinquish the city to the newly-formed Albania. The squadron returned to the United Kingdom in 1913 and rejoined the Home Fleet on 27 June 1913.

First World War

Upon the outbreak of the First World War, the 3rd Battle Squadron was assigned to the Grand Fleet and based at Rosyth, with King Edward VII continuing her service as squadron flagship, at the time under the command of Vice Admiral Edward Bradford. The squadron was reinforced with the five Duncan-class battleships, and was used to supplement the Grand Fleet's cruisers on the Northern Patrol. On 6 August, the day after Britain declared war on Germany, elements of the Grand Fleet sortied to inspect the coast of Norway in search of a German naval base violating Norwegian neutrality. King Edward VII and the rest of the 3rd Battle Squadron provided distant support to the operation. No such base was found, and the ships returned to port the next day. On 14 August, the ships of the Grand Fleet went to sea for battle practice before conducting a sweep into the North Sea later that day and into 15 August.

In late August, King Edward VII reported that two of her four 12-inch guns had developed cracks in the inner tubes, necessitating replacement. She accordingly left Scapa Flow for Devonport to have the guns replaced, Bradford shifting his flag to her sister ship Dominion temporarily. King Edward VII returned to the fleet on 2 September, at which point Dominion was sent to have her guns replaced. On 2 November, the squadron was detached to reinforce the Channel Fleet and was rebased at Portland. The squadron returned to the Grand Fleet on 13 November, although King Edward VII remained behind temporarily, not returning to the Grand Fleet until 30 November. During sweeps by the fleet, she and her sisters often steamed at the heads of divisions of the far more valuable dreadnoughts, where they could protect the dreadnoughts by watching for mines or by being the first to strike them.

On 14 December, the 1st Battlecruiser Squadron, 2nd Battle Squadron, and accompanying cruisers and destroyers left port to intercept the German forces preparing to raid Scarborough, Hartlepool and Whitby. On the first reports of contact with German units on the morning of 16 December, the Grand Fleet commander, Admiral John Jellicoe, ordered Bradford to take the 3rd Battle Squadron to support the ships in contact at 10:00. Four hours later, they met the 1st and 4th Battle Squadrons, en route from Scapa Flow, though they failed to reach the German High Seas Fleet before the latter withdrew. The Grand Fleet remained at sea until late on 17 December, at which point the 3rd Battle Squadron was ordered back to Rosyth. King Edward VII and the rest of the squadron joined the Grand Fleet for another sweep into the North Sea on 25 December. The fleet returned to its ports two days later, having failed to locate any German vessels.

The 3rd Battle Squadron went to sea on 12 January 1915 for gunnery training, steaming north and passing to the west of Orkney on the night of 13–14 January. After completing training on the 14th, they returned to Rosyth on 15 January. On 23 January, the 1st and 2nd Battlecruiser Squadrons sortied to ambush the German I Scouting Group in what resulted in the Battle of Dogger Bank the following day. Later on the 23rd, the rest of the Grand Fleet, including King Edward VII, sortied to support the battlecruisers. The 3rd Squadron ships left first and steamed at full speed to reach ships of the Harwich Force, which had reported contact with German vessels. The battlecruisers intervened first, and King Edward VII and her sisters arrived around 14:00, by which time the battlecruisers had sunk the armoured cruiser SMS Blücher and the surviving German ships had fled. The 3rd Battle Squadron patrolled the area with the rest of the Grand Fleet over the night before being detached at 08:00 on 25 January to steam to Rosyth.

Elements of the Grand Fleet went to sea repeatedly over the next few months. The 3rd Battle Squadron patrolled the central North Sea in company with the 3rd Cruiser Squadron from 10–13 March. The two units again went to sea to sweep the central North Sea from 5–8 April. A major fleet operation followed on 11 April, with the entire Grand Fleet sortieing for a sweep of the North Sea on 12–13 April. The squadrons returned to their ports on 14 April to replenish their fuel. Another such operation followed on 17 April, which also failed to find any German ships. The 3rd Battle Squadron returned to Rosyth late on 18 April. The fleet sortied again on 21 April, returning to port two days later. The 3rd Battle Squadron, joined by the 3rd Cruiser Squadron, patrolled the northern North Sea from 5–10 May, during which a German U-boat attacked the battleships but failed to score a hit.

Another sweep into the North Sea took place from 17–19 May, and no German forces were encountered. The fleet went to sea again on 29 May for a patrol south to the Dogger Bank before returning to port on 31 May, again without having located any German vessels. The Grand Fleet spent much of June in port conducting training, but the most modern units went to sea on 11 June for gunnery practice to the northwest of Shetland. While they were training, King Edward VII and the rest of the 3rd Battle Squadron, along with the 3rd Cruiser Squadron, patrolled the central North Sea. Fleet activities were limited in July, owing to a threatened strike by coal miners, which began on 18 July and threatened the supply of coal for the fleet's ships. The strike continued into August, which led Jellicoe to continue to limit fleet activities to preserve his stocks of coal. The fleet saw little activity in September, and during this period, the Grand Fleet began to go to sea without the 3rd Battle Squadron.

Loss
On 6 January 1916, King Edward VII—having transferred her flag temporarily—departed Scapa Flow at 07:12 on a voyage around the northern coast of Scotland to Belfast, where she was scheduled to undergo a refit. At 10:47, she struck a mine that had been laid by the German auxiliary cruiser SMS Möwe (1914) off Cape Wrath five days before. Möwe had slipped past British patrols and laid 252 mines under cover of darkness and a snow storm. The explosion occurred under the starboard engine room, and King Edward VII took on a list of 8° to starboard. Her commanding officer, Captain (later Admiral) Crawford Maclachlan, ordered her helm put over to starboard to close the coast and beach the ship if necessary, but the helm jammed hard to starboard and the engine rooms quickly flooded, stopping the engines. Counterflooding reduced her list to 5°. Signals to the passing collier Princess Melita induced her to close with King Edward VII and attempt to tow the battleship. Initially believing the attack to have been from a German U-boat, the flotilla leader HMS Kempenfelt (1915) and twelve destroyers sortied to come to King Edward VII's aid. After arriving on the scene, Kempenfelt joined the tow attempt. Towing began at 14:15, but King Edward VII settled deeper in the water and took on a 15° list in a rising sea and strong winds and soon proved to be unmanageable. Princess Melita's towline parted at 14:40, after which Captain Maclachlan ordered Kempenfelt to slip her tow as well.

With flooding continuing and darkness approaching, Captain Maclachlan ordered King Edward VII abandoned. The destroyer HMS Musketeer (1915) came alongside at 14:45, and she and destroyers HMS Fortune (1913) and HMS Marne (1915), took off the crew with the loss of only one life (a man fell between the battleship and one of the rescue vessels), the last man off being Captain Maclachlan, who boarded destroyer HMS Nessus (1915) at 16:10. Fortune, Marne, and Musketeer departed to take the battleship's crew to port, while Nessus stayed on the scene until 17:20 with tugs that had arrived to assist. After Nessus departed, the tugs continued to stand by, and saw King Edward VII capsize at 20:10 and sink around nine hours after the explosion. The cause of her loss was initially unknown, as the British were at that time unaware of Möwe's minefield, and the battleship Africa had passed through the area earlier that day without incident. A shortage of minesweepers also delayed discovery of the minefield.

title: HMS King Edward VII


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HMS Ladybird

Three ships of the British Royal Navy have been named HMS Ladybird, after the ladybird family of beetles (Coccinellidae).

 * The first HMS Ladybird (1916) was an Insect-class gunboat launched in 1916 and sunk off Tobruk in 1941.
 * The second HMS Ladybird (1950) was a base ship purchased in 1950 and returned to the original owner in 1953.
 * The third HMS Ladybird (1970) is a tender launched in 1970.

title: HMS Ladybird


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Montecito (processor)

Montecito is the code-name of a major release of Intel's Itanium 2 Processor Family (IPF), which implements the Intel Itanium architecture on a dual-core processor. It was officially launched by Intel on July 18, 2006 as the "Dual-Core Intel Itanium 2 processor". According to Intel, Montecito doubles performance versus the previous, single-core Itanium 2 processor, and reduces power consumption by about 20%. It also adds multi-threading capabilities (two threads per core), a greatly expanded cache subsystem (12 MB per core), and silicon support for virtualization.

Architectural features and attributes

 * Two cores per die
 * 2-way coarse-grained multithreading per core (not simultaneous). Montecito-flavour of multi-threading is dubbed temporal, or TMT. This is also known as switch-on-event multithreading, or SoEMT. The two separate threads do not run simultaneously, but the core switches thread in case of a high latency event, like an L3 cache miss which would otherwise stall execution. By this technique, multi-threaded workloads, including database-like workloads, should improve by 15-35%.
 * a total of 4 threads per die
 * separate 16 KB Instruction L1 and 16 KB Data L1 cache per core
 * separate 1 MB Instruction L2 and 256 KB Data L2 cache per core, improved hierarchy
 * 12 MB L3 cache per core, 24 MB L3 per die
 * 1.72 billion transistors per die, which is added up from:
 * core logic — 57M, or 28.5M per core
 * core caches — 106.5M
 * 24 MB L3 cache — 1550M
 * bus logic & I/O — 6.7M
 * Die size is 27.72 mm × 21.5 mm, or 596 mm2
 * 90 nanometer design
 * Lower power consumption and thermal dissipation than earlier flagship Itaniums, despite the high transistor count; 75-104 W. This is mainly achieved by applying different types of transistors. By default, slower and low-leakage transistors were used, while high-speed, thus high-leakage ones where it was necessary.
 * Advanced compensation for errors in cache, for reliable operation under mission-critical workloads. This was code-named Pellston technology during development, and has recently been renamed Intel Cache Safe Technology.
 * Virtualization technology allowing multiple OS instances per chip. This was known as Silvervale technology during development, and is now called Intel Virtualization Technology.
 * Improved, higher bandwidth front side bus (FSB), with three times the capacity of the existing bus design. It is meant to be at system level (per node, with 4 dies). System throughput per node should be at least 21 GB/s, which suggest dual 333.333 MHz (double pumped, resulting 2×667 effective MHz) front side bus. However, it is up to system integrators how they organize their bus topology.
 * All Montecito processors support 533 MHz / 400 MHz FSB speed.
 * Also available with legacy FSB for upgrading existing system designs.
 * Eliminates the hardware-based x86 instruction emulation circuitry, in favor of the more efficient software-based IA-32 Execution Layer.

On October 25, 2005 Intel announced that the first dual-core Itanium processor would be delayed until "the middle of next year." Montecito was launched on July 18, 2006. Due to unspecified issues, Intel's Foxton power management technology was disabled in the first release of Montecito, and the front-side bus frequency was reduced to 267 MHz (533.333 MHz effective) instead of the 333 MHz speed originally scheduled for the design [3].

At the time of launch, the following models and pricing were available:
 * Itanium 2 9050 1.60 GHz / 24 MB L3 — $3,692
 * Itanium 2 9040 1.60 GHz / 16 MB L3 — $1,980
 * Itanium 2 9030 1.60 GHz / 8 MB L3 — $1,552
 * Itanium 2 9020 1.42 GHz / 12 MB L3 — $910
 * Itanium 2 9015 1.40 GHz / 12 MB L3 — $749
 * Itanium 2 9010 1.60 GHz / 6 MB L3 / single core — $696

There are no plans for additional Montecito processors; the successor, Montvale was released in late 2007.

Successors
See Itanium future processors

title: Montecito (processor)


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HMS Leda

HMS Leda may refer to one of the following ships of the British Royal Navy named after the Leda of Greek mythology:

 * HMS Leda (1783), a 36-gun fifth rate launched in 1783 and foundered 1795
 * HMS Leda (1800), a 38-gun fifth rate launched 1800 and wrecked 1808
 * HMS Leda (1809), a 36-gun fifth rate launched 1809 and sold 1817
 * HMS Leda (1828), a 46-gun fifth rate launched in 1828, used as a police hulk from 1864, and sold in 1906
 * HMS Leda (1892), a torpedo gunboat launched in 1892, converted to a minesweeper 1909 and sold 1920
 * HMS Leda (J93), launched in 1937, was a Halcyon-class minesweeper sunk by GS U-435 on 20 September 1942

title: HMS Leda


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HMS Legion

Two destroyers of the British Royal Navy have been named HMS Legion, after the Roman legion.

 * The first, HMS Legion (1914), was launched in 1914 and sold in 1921.
 * The second, HMS Legion (G74), was launched in 1939 and sunk in an air attack off Malta in 1942.

title: HMS Legion


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HMS Leonidas

Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Leonidas after Leonidas I, king of ancient Sparta.

 * The first HMS Leonidas (1807), launched in 1807, built by John Pelham of Frindsbury was a 36-gun fifth-rate frigate, used as a powder hulk from 1872 and sold in 1894.
 * The second HMS Leonidas (1913), launched in 1913, was a Laforey-class destroyer (1913) destroyer. She served with the 3rd Destroyer Flotilla and as a convoy escort in World War I and was broken up in 1922.

title: HMS Leonidas


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HMS Liberty

Several ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Liberty.

 * ENGLISH SHIP Liberty, a great ship wrecked in 1650
 * HMS Liberty (1768) was a sloop belonging to John Hancock confiscated by the Royal Navy in 1768 for failure to pay customs duties. She was commissioned under Captain William Reid as a revenue ship. In July 1769 she seized two Connecticut vessels and brought them into Newport, Rhode Island. A group of Newport citizens boarded the Liberty, smashed her lifeboats, cut down her masts and cables, and set her adrift. She ran aground on a small nearby island and then burned.
 * HMS Liberty (1779) was a cutter purchased in 1779, later re-rigged as a brig, and sold in Barbados in 1816.
 * HMS Liberty - sailing brig sunk in a collision in 1804.
 * HMS Liberty - sailing brig serving as a tender to Lion in 1901.
 * HMS Liberty was a paddle steamer/mine sweeper originally named Roslin Castle and renamed Wanderer in 1913.
 * HMS Liberty (1913), launched in 1913, was a Laforey-class destroyer (1913) destroyer that served in World War I, fought at the Battle of Jutland in 1916, and was broken up in 1921.
 * HMS Liberty (J391), launched in 1943, was an Algerine-class minesweeper that served in World War II. She was sold to the Belgian Navy in 1949 and renamed Adrien de Gerlache.

title: HMS Liberty


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HMS Lightning

Ten ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Lightning.

 * The first HMS Lightning (1691) was an 8-gun fire ship launched in 1691 and captured by the French in 1705.
 * The second HMS Lightning (1740) was an 8-gun bomb vessel launched in 1740 and captured off Livorno during the War of the Austrian Succession in 1746.
 * The 14-gun sloop HMS Viper (1746), launched in 1746, was converted to a fire ship and renamed Lightning in 1755. She was sold in 1762
 * The 14-gun sloop HMS Sylph (1776), purchased in 1776, was converted to a fire ship and renamed Lightning in 1779. She was sold in 1783.
 * The fifth HMS Lightning (1806) was a Thais-class fireship launched in 1806, converted to a sloop in 1808, and sold in 1816.
 * The sixth HMS Lightning (1823), launched in 1823, was a paddle steamer, one of the first steam-powered ships on the Navy List. She served initially as a packet ship, but was later converted into an oceanographic survey vessel.
 * The seventh HMS Lightning (1829) was an 18-gun sloop launched in 1829, renamed Larne in 1832, and broken up in 1866.
 * The eighth HMS Lightning (1876), was a torpedo boat, built by John Thornycroft. She was the first seagoing vessel to be armed with self-propelled torpedoes. She was later known as TB-1.
 * The ninth HMS Lightning (1895), launched in 1895, was a Janus-class destroyer. She served in World War I until she struck a mine in 1915 that sank her.
 * The tenth HMS Lightning (G55), launched in 1940, was an L-class destroyer that served in World War II. The German motor torpedo boat S-55 torpedoed and sank her on 12 March 1943 in the Strait of Sicily.

title: HMS Lightning


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HMS Lion

Nineteen ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Lion or HMS Lyon, after the lion, an animal traditionally associated with courage, and also used in several heraldric motifs representing England, Scotland and the British Monarchy. Another ship was planned but never completed:

 * ENGLISH SHIP Lion was a 36-gun ship of the Royal Scottish Navy captured in 1511 and sold in 1513.
 * ENGLISH SHIP Lion was a 50-gun ship built in 1536 and on the navy list until 1559.
 * ENGLISH SHIP Lion was the Scottish ship Lion, captured in 1547 and later lost off Harwich.
 * ENGLISH SHIP Lion was a 40-gun ship, also known as Golden Lion. She was rebuilt four times, in 1582, 1609, 1640 and 1658. After her 1609 rebuild she was renamed Red Lion, but this was reverted to Lion after the 1640 rebuild. She was sold in 1698.
 * HMS Lion (1665) was a 6-gun ketch, also known as Young Lion. She was captured from the Dutch in 1665, sold in 1667, repurchased in 1668 and sunk as a foundation at Sheerness in 1673.
 * HMS Lion (1683) was a fifth rate captured from the Algerians in 1683 and sold the same year.
 * HMS Lion (1702) was a 4-gun stores hoy of 99 tons burthen purchased in 1702. A French privateer captured her off Beachy Head in 1708, but she was recaptured in 1709.
 * HMS Lion (1709 hoy) was a 4-gun hoy launched in 1709. She was wrecked in 1752.
 * HMS Lion (1709) was a 60-gun third rate launched in 1709, rebuilt in 1738 and sold in 1765.
 * HMS Lion (1753) was a transport launched in 1753, hulked in 1775, and sold in 1786.
 * HMS Lyon (1753) was a hoy sold in 1786
 * HMS Lion (1763) was a cutter purchased in 1763 and sold in 1771.
 * HMS Lion (1774) was a discovery vessel in service from 1774 to 1785.
 * HMS Lion (1777) was a 64-gun third rate launched in 1777, best known for ferrying the Macartney Embassy to China. She was used as a sheer hulk from 1816 and was sold for breaking up in 1837.
 * HMS Lion (1781) was a schooner purchased around 1781 and sold in 1785.
 * HMS Lion (1794) was a 4-gun gunvessel, originally a Dutch hoy. She was purchased in 1794 and sold in 1795.
 * HMS Lion (1823) was the pirate schooner Gata, built in Baltimore in 1820, that the Royal Navy captured in 1823 and took into service. She took part in numerous expeditions against pirates, recaptured some of their prizes, and captured a slave ship. The Navy sold her in 1826.
 * HMS Lion (1847) was an 80-gun second rate launched in 1847. She was converted to screw propulsion in 1859 and became a training ship after 1871. She was sold for breaking up in 1905.
 * HMS Lion (1910) was a Lion-class battlecruiser launched in 1910 and sold in 1924.
 * HMS Lion (1939) was to have been a Lion-class battleship. She was laid down in 1939, but work was suspended later that year, and again in 1942.  The order was finally cancelled in 1945 and she was broken up on the slipway.
 * HMS Lion (C34) was a Tiger-class cruiser launched in 1944 as the Minotaur-class cruiser (1943) HMS Defence. She was finally completed to a revised design in 1960.  She was placed in reserve in 1964 and was scrapped in 1975.

Battle honours
Ships named Lion have earned the following battle honours:

 * Armada, 1588
 * Cadiz, 1596
 * Kentish Knock, 1652
 * Portland, 1653
 * Scheveningen, 1653
 * Lowestoft, 1665
 * Four Days' Battle, 1666
 * Orfordness, 1666
 * Schooneveld, 1673
 * Texel, 1673
 * Barfleur, 1692
 * Ushant, 1747
 * Santa Dorotea, 1798
 * Guillaume Tell, 1800
 * Java, 1811
 * Heligoland, 1914
 * Dogger Bank, 1915
 * Jutland, 1916

title: HMS Lion


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HMS Lizard

Twelve ships and a shore establishment of the Royal Navy have been named Lizard after The Lizard, a peninsula in Cornwall.

Ships
 * ENGLISH SHIP Lizard was a ship listed between 1512 and 1522.
 * ENGLISH SHIP Lizard was a 16-gun fireship Royalist ship captured by the Parliamentarians in 1652 and expended in 1666.
 * HMS Lizard (1673) was a 4-gun sloop launched in 1673 and captured by the Dutch in 1674.
 * HMS Lizard (1694) was a 24-gun sixth rate launched in 1694 and wrecked in 1696.
 * HMS Lizard (1697) was a 24-gun sixth rate launched in 1697 and sold in 1714.
 * HMS Lizard (1744) was a 14-gun sloop launched in 1744 and wrecked on 27 February 1747 (Some sources give 1748 but 1747 did not start on 1 January)
 * HMS Lizard (1757) was a 28-gun sixth rate launched in 1757, used for harbour service from 1795 and sold in 1828.
 * HMS Lizard (1782) was the French Cerf-class cutter Lézard of eighteen 6-pounder guns, built by Jacques and Daniel Denys at Dunkirk and launched on 10 March 1781. She was captured on 2 October 1782 in the roads of the neutral (Danish) port of Tranquebar and taken to Bombay. There she was released back to France in 1783, after she had been present at the Battle of Cuddalore, and re-entered on the lists in January 1784. She was broken up in 1784.
 * HMS Lizard (1840) was a wooden paddle vessel launched in 1840 and sunk in 1843 in a collision with the French paddle sloop Veloce.
 * HMS Lizard (1844) was an iron paddle gunboat launched in 1844 and broken up in 1869.
 * HMS Lizard (1886) was a composite screw gunvessel launched in 1886 and sold in 1905.
 * HMS Lizard (1911) was an Acheron-class destroyer launched in 1911 and sold in 1921.

Shore establishments
 * HMS Lizard (shore establishment) was a Combined Operations Landing Craft base, at Shoreham, West Sussex, commissioned in 1942 and closed in 1945.

title: HMS Lizard