text:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paul Vogel

IP numbers used:
 * 24.45.99.191 (optonline.net — broadband provider)
 * 65.125.10.66 (tcius.com — marketing company)
 * 66.2.156.* (10, 27, 36, 38, 48, 69, 100, 123) (algx.net NY dialups)
 * 216.99.245.* (139, 153, 154, 170, 171, 184, 188) (algx.net NY dialups)

Also possibly User:216.108.215.163 and User:66.245.19.157? From ViP: "Repeatedly defacing Jew. -- The Anome 15:52, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)"

Basic Info
Regarding Paul's fondness for reversion wars: check Wikipedia talk:Quickpolls for advice on dealing with anon users who grossly violate the 3 reversions in 24 hours policy, with abusive talk - David Gerard 08:06, Apr 6, 2004 (UTC)

More psychological projection on David Gerard's part: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Cosmotheism&limit=50&offset=50&action=history And typical lying hypocrisy!-PV

I, Infrogmation, have been having a conflict/annoyance with an unlogged in user going by the name "Paul Vogel", User_talk:24.45.99.191 (contributions ), apparently the same person as User talk:65.125.10.66 (contributions ) or at least sharing an agenda. The Turner Diaries article has repeatedly been edited to try to look like something other than the neo-Nazi fantasy of global genocide which it is; problems with other "white power" related articles. May be related to earlier disputes over Cosmotheism. -- Infrogmation 05:55, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

There are always at least two sides to any dispute, and I always do try to always maintain a Wiki NPOV in any such articles of interest to me. I have never denied that the "Turner Diaries" wasn't just a "Neo-Nazi fantasy of non-white genocide", whatsoever, which it certainly is, but, only over some few particulars that did not reflect any Wiki NPOV.

 * Paul Vogel a.k.a Needle, as he sometimes calls himself, is a persistent and malicious pest who is here only to promote his odious neo-Nazi ideology while ignoring all the basic standards of Wikipedia, insisting that he and he alone has the only objective view of his pet topics, and attacking anyone who disagrees with him as a "Jewish Marxist PC bigot" or worse (see talk:Cosmotheism, wherein he implies that anyone who disagrees with him is suffering from mental illness). Naturyl, who apparently knows Vogel quite well, made several very accurate predictions about him (on talk:Pantheism, if you can sort out the incoherent mess Mr. Needle made of the page), and all of them have come to pass, except the one about Needle being permanently banned from Wikipedia, as he has been from every other website in which he has participated. Since months of discussion have not succeeded in teaching him the basic norms of Wikipedia -- NPOV, Wikiquette, or even basic layout and formatting -- he should be blocked on sight whenever he pokes his head out from the rock under which he lives. --No-One Jones 12:06, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Paul Vogel's latest manifestation is as 65.125.10.66 - David Gerard 16:58, Feb 24, 2004 (UTC)

Stop mis-redirecting the NPOV article, below:

"A supremacist -- of whatever race -- is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races -- since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs."

See also separatism

Again, this is only your own POV and false "opinion", Mirv, and from one of my oldest enemies on the internet, "Naturyl", so that false "opinion" of yours is hardly very "objective" and "non-slanderous" or nor is it "neutral" and it is only a deliberate "personal attack" upon both me and my beliefs, is it not?

I find it amusing to say the least, that like "Naturyl", that you are so quick to ban and to censor anyone that does not share your own POV?

What else isn't new?

 * As evidence, glance over the histories of the articles he's vandalised:

 * Cosmotheism and associated talk page
 * Pantheism and associated talk page
 * Monism
 * William Pierce
 * White supremacy
 * National Alliance
 * Holocaust
 * Holocaust denial
 * (and some others, all related to the above).
 * --No-One Jones 12:30, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have not "vandalized" any of those pages by my insisting upon only a Wiki NPOV, whatsoever. You always falsely calling my edits, "vandalism", is just another subjective POV "personal attack" and with no real rational basis, whatsoever. Mirv is a just POV bigoted censor and lying hypocrite, just like "Naturyl", and no more and no less.

 * While the claims above are largely accurate (if biased, and seasoned with a good deal of flaming) I have found Paul to be able to make a decent edit on occasion, and must say he has gotten much better over time. I'm a bit shocked to see Mirv taking such a strong stand against him now, after all he put up with in the past forcing Paul to accept NPOV on "his" article cosmotheism. I havn't found him to actually vandalize anything in a very long time. He clearly spends more time studying some of these subjects than anyone else around here, and supplies a good deal of POV info and links, along w a much needed alternate perspective. I personally have found the sorts of P.C. biases Paul rails against on the wiki from time to time (altho not so much from the people he acccuses of it, mirv seems pretty darn fair and balanced, considering what he's put up with) and I frankly would like to reform Paul. I think he's on his way, I've seen consistant progress from him. And as far as I know, there is no specific policy on the wiki outlawing anyone based apon their politics (if such a policy were written, it had better not outlaw communists, or we'll lose 3/4's of the staff ;) Sam Spade 12:51, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Mirv, is about as "fair and balanced" in his leftist dogmatism and bigoted censorship as Bill O-reilly is with his own "neo-conservative" Fox news program! LOL! :D

Sam Spade is quite right about the staff being 3/4 leftist PC Marxists!

That is why the Wiki NPOV is in such danger of being pushed aside and only Marxist-PC Propaganda is being allowed within many articles in the Wiki encyclopedia.

 * I do not propose outlawing him based on his vile politics. If a neo-Nazi were to edit Wikipedia, but was willing follow NPOV, was polite, understood Wiki markup, and could write English that would pass an eighth-grade composition class, I would be willing to work with him. Since Vogel does not fit this description (except for the "neo-Nazi" part, of course), I made my complaint above.

On the contrary, you actually are proposing to outlaw and ban and censor me, because you consider my politics, "vile", and no more and no less. Get real!!!

"A supremacist -- of whatever race -- is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races -- since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs."

See also separatism

 * If you have not seen him vandalise anything in a long time, either you have not been watching or you have a different definition of "a very long time": he vandalised my user and talk pages not two weeks ago, he vandalised white supremacy a few days after that , and then he vandalised Holocaust denial.

Mirv, has a very unique "definition" of "vandalism", which only just means anything that Mirv just doesn't like to see within any articles or on any talkpages. Your bigoted reverts had caused some frustration on my part, and I may have been only trying to get your attention, when I blanked out some of your pages. I do sometimes get sick of your bigoted POV reverts and edits, Mirv, and I do apologize for any actual "vandalism" that I may have actually done in the past.

 * I have tried patient discussion, and it did not work; Vogel responded by calling me (and numerous others) a "Jewish Marxist PC bigot" and a tool of Zionist (read: Jewish) world-domination conspiracy; (also accusing me of suffering from mental illness -- see above). Since he has not shown the slightest willingness or desire to abide by Wikipedia norms, and this is a pattern of behavior which he has demonstrated in the past (everything Naturyl said is true, and then some), I think he should be banned.

You have not done any such thing as try "patient discussion", whatsoever, only reverting and editing for your own POV and without any true "explaination", whatsoever. If the shoe fits, you do wear it, Mirv. You only want to ban me, just because you personally just don't like me or my beliefs, and that is the truth, and no more and no less.

Assumptions of good faith should not last when they have been violated from the start. (And as a nitpicking side note, I wrote nearly all of the cosmotheism article; Mr. Vogel, the self-proclaimed expert, could only vandalize it with bad English, unformatted source text dumps, deletion of inconvenient facts, and rants about "Marxist politically-correct propaganda". His contribution, despite his proclamation of expertise, is negligible.) --No-One Jones 13:23, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That is just complete nonsense, and Mirv knows it. It figures that he would take the credit for work that he hadn't actually done!

 * I will quickly point out that yes, you did entirely and satisfactorilly rewrite cosmotheism, and against spectacular obstacles. I found it to be a rairly heroic display of NPOV (as well as general article quality) myself. On the other hand, I think you deminish Pauls role in providing an alternate view overmuch. On the Gripping hand, I was not aware of that other vandalism (are you sure its vandalism? I suppose I may have to look into it). I think you may want to take this to conflict resolution, since this page is designed for laughs (and incessent flamming) rather than being a legitimate part of wiki-process, IMO ;) Sam Spade 19:39, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It is obvious that Mirv has no intention of having any "good will" towards resolving any issues between us, and only want to ban and censor me. Mirv really doesn't want any alternative or NPOV's within Wiki, and his past POV behavior and editing shows plenty of evidence of that fact.

 * Has also been getting into revert war at Homophobic hate speech. Could some other responsible folks around here take a look at this user? Thanks, -- Infrogmation 18:17, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

A Wiki NPOV is justified with any such Marxist-PC POV topic.

 * I think this user's behaviour with frequent POV reverts has reached the stage where a block is warrented. As I have been one of the people involved in editing and counter-editing articles he's been active on, I recuse myself as an admin from doing the block myself. -- Infrogmation 21:01, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Those that advocate such bans and blocks are usually Marxist-PC dogmatic bigots that do not wish to see any POV whether NPOV or not, other than their own. If one was to see what each of these editors has done in the past, that fact would become clear to any objective person.

 * I think this user needs to be blocked. Several have been trying to keep his rants to the talk pages but have been unsuccessful.  In addition, his edits on other pages only amount to anti-jewish vandalism. - Texture 21:03, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * That last is not remotely accurate. Sam Spade 21:04, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * In reference to your objection to my claim on anti-jewish vandalism, please refer to his edit history of dozens (a day) attempted changes to several articles to add non-article content (discussions, rants, opinions) without agreeing to discussion and concensus in the Talk pages. (Many reversions request discussion on the talk page and are ignored.)  I term vandalism as repeated attempts to deface an article.  I suggest you read the attempted changes to get a feel for my interpretation of anti-jewish. - Texture 21:44, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Anti-Jewish vandalism? That is a completely silly and false accusation.

Does my always striving to maintain a Wiki NPOV within articles "anti-jewish vandalism"? People like Mirv, and his ilk, or cabal, do seem to think so, and some "pigs opinions are just more equal than others", ie. Animal Farm.

 * Sam, are you replying to me or Vogel? All my paragraphs have my signature.  The one before yours is not mine. - Texture 21:11, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

IF the shoe fits?

This user appears to be back as 24.45.99.191. He has stated that "WE can revert until the cows come home as long as a NPOV is not being maintained regarding this strictly Marxist-PC POV propaganda article." He has no intention of working with others. What are the rules regarding a vandalising anon IP? - David Gerard 15:26, Feb 25, 2004 (UTC)

On the contary, I AM ALWAYS willing to work with anyone that is trying to maintain a Wiki NPOV within all articles. It is you that is being the F-head that is "unwilling" to talk or to work with any "others" that you just happen disagree with, like me.

Also now seen as 216.99.245.171 - David Gerard 16:10, Feb 25, 2004 (UTC)

There will be many others, as is necessary, to maintain the Wiki NPOV.

Now he's actually left me a message on my talk page to let me know there's an article -- separatism -- for me to revert again. Can some new people deal with this guy? -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:05, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Why are or would you revert a NPOV article for one that isn't? Oh yeah, because you are a F-head that actually doesn't believe in the Wiki NPOV? Obviously!!!

Back as User:216.99.245.184 -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 21:12, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)

back as 66.2.156.38 Perl 21:16, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Comments from Vandalism in Progress
"David Gerard" is a typical lying hypocrite and pov bigoted political censor! -PV http://www.cosmotheism.net

IMO User:24.45.99.191 User talk:24.45.99.191 contributions has passed POV problems in asserting his neo-Nazi agenda and revert wars and crossed into vandalism. -- Infrogmation 21:10, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

What you falsely call "apologist" is actually just the Wiki NPOV based upon the objective facts. I only reverted or edited to make the article NPOV and factually accurate.

Kevin Alfred Strom, on the National Alliance's white separatist radio program American Dissident Voices, defined the difference between white separatism and supremacy this way:

 * "A supremacist—of whatever race—is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races—since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs."

 * He's back and hitting every one of his pages with the same agenda he got banned for. - Texture 22:04, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Why do you want to ban or censor for my upholding of the Wiki NPOV? Curious.

 * I told you folks months ago (when he first showed up) that this waas going to happen, but no one would listen, so I left the wiki. As I mentioned then, I'll be back when he is banned. - Nat

Well, Nat, aka, [real name removed], you are up to your usual SSEE censorous bigotry and lying hypocrisy, eh? I guess that your "psycho-active" drugs were completely ineffective, afterall, and they still have not given you any actual "personal integrity", and they never would nor could.

Such is life!

Best regards,

Paul Vogel aka the NEEDLE

 * My main problem with this user is not so much with the content he has added to pages (my threshold for tolerance of opposing viewpoints is high enough to let him slide under it, even though I disagree strongly with his opinions), but rather with the insults he has repeatedly flung at other Wikipedians. On more than a dozen occasions, he has refered on talk pages to other users as "Marxist-PC bigots," "lying hypocrites", and "SSEE" (an acronym he has apparently coined himself, meaning "Selfishly Subjective and Egotistical Egoism", which he has used on other websites before). He should be re-banned not for his edits, but for his repeated (and repetitious) insults. Andrewlevine 03:58, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Sure Andrew. You don't seem to have any "main problem" with other Wikipedians, like David Gerard, etc. ad nauseum, falsely accusing me of being a "Nazi", or of being a "racist", or of being "anti-semitic", etc. etc.

 * I assume you can provide references to me saying all of those, then?

It is quite obvious that you are a "hypocrite", Andrew, in your "main problem" with me, as you call for my banning, only, which is the point.

 * Other people keep reverting your edits because you spam them all over the place without regard for appropriateness or what makes a coherent sentence in English. Is grammar now Marxist-PC Bigotry? - David Gerard 17:27, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)

On the contrary, my providing links to any appropriate articles is not SPAM, whatsoever, and this is true whether in your POV happen to think so or not. Coherent sentences or grammar have never been any issue, but, is merely just another "straw-man" or "red-herring" arguement of David's and of which is quite typical of him. What else isn't new?

Best regards,

Paul Vogel

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment
David and his cabal of Marxist-pc pov bigots keeps mis-directing the NPOV article on white separatism and many others:

"A supremacist -- of whatever race -- is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races -- since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs."

See also separatism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protected_page

Please either have him and his cabal stop and discuss it on the talk pages or I I would like to ask for your personal mediation or arbitration on this matter.

Thanks! :D

Paul Vogel

 * See Conflicts_between_users for an alternate point of view... BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:13, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Also, I found the source of this quote that Paul Vogel is putting on various pages (including my talk page): It's here -- -- it's from a speech by Kevin Alfred Strom of the National Alliance. Here are some more quotes from the same speech:
 * "The height of Jewish hypocrisy is reached when they condemn White people who believe in the White separatist ideals of, say, Thomas Jefferson or the National Alliance, as 'White supremacists' -- when the Jews themselves are the most thoroughgoing racial supremacists the world has ever seen."
 * I urge all of you to study these issues. An excellent way to begin is by reading Jewish Supremacism by David Duke. In this new work, Mr. Duke rips away the shroud of pretended morality from the ugly body of Jewish hate. He reveals the Jewish establishment for what it is: a maniacal racial cult based on hate, exploitation, and genocide of other peoples -- and a cult which is directing its considerable resources against the very survival of White European peoples."
 * All of Paul Vogel's edits that I've seen to a number of different articles are drawn from this speech. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 05:37, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Would his edits to cosmotheism likewise be drawn from that speech? Sam Spade 07:29, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry -- I unintentionally overgeneralized. Those edits seem to be from cosmotheism.net -- a separate site, but one which does have a giant National Alliance logo on the front page. I stand corrected. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 15:42, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you. I will agree with you to the extent that Paul is clearly influenced by his politics in regards to his edits, and that he is quick to quote and cite references to National Alliance sources. I actually find this to be a useful trait, given the articles he edits. I am not only in favor of citations and references, but also in having a diversity of editors generally, and having members of organizations or adherents to various causes assisting in the entry so very dear to them, specifically. Frankly, they know more about it, and besides, I think NPOV is best achieved by citing the variety of major POV's on a given subject. Sam Spade 20:28, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply. I understand what you are saying, but the one thing I tend to disagree with (if I understand you correctly) is that we need to quote people who represent different POV's -- I think it's good to explain those positions a bit, and to have external links, but I feel that there's a distinction bewteen the journalistic approach (which often involves a lot of quotes) and an encyclopedic approach whcih I believe is our goal at Wikipedia. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 22:00, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, it appears you at least mildly misunderstand me. I don't see a great deal of need for quotes, although they are of occasional utility. That wasn't my point. I was saying that we need to express a wide variety of POV's in each article (at least where there is a wide variety that is possible to cite) and that Paul is representative of a particular POV, and thus improves article quality in the sense of diversity of editors. Diversity of editorial POV is quite important, IMO. The specific tendency Paul has for quoting isn't something I have much of an opinion on (it really depends on the specific article, context, etc...) but you and I appear to generally agree that quotes are not frequently necessary throughout the wiki (really a seperate subject, IMO). In conclusion, let us strive to increase editorial diversity, diversity of POV's expressed in a given article, and always maintain Verifiability. Sam Spade 01:26, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Those edits seem to be from cosmotheism.net -- a separate site, but one which does have a giant National Alliance logo on the front page."

What you had falsely called a "giant National Alliance logo on the front page", is actually the symbol of the LIFE RUNE, http://www.cosmotheism.net/runeoflife.shtml , actually representing the upward PATH of LIFE towards GODHOOD, or the religion of cosmotheism. The National Alliance is only a political organization. Cosmotheism is the official religion of many National Alliance members and of many of its leaders, but, the spiritual goal of always striving towards GODHOOD, and via the Path of Life, On Living Things, and via On Society, do remain almost always the same for all true Cosmotheists.

Some wiki editors have been falsely "reverting" Paul Vogel's NPOV edits verses only their own false and leftist POV's. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for such pc censorship and such obvious leftist bias within the Wiki articles. You are going to ruin the credibility of the entire encyclopedia project!!!

wikiquette
You all need to understand that wikiquette is not one way. Everytime you mistreat Paul, you justify an error on his part. It is only when you are kind, polite and welcoming, and remain unsuccessful in cultivating the "problem user" that you have any legitimate complaint, IMO. I have always gone out of my way to be polite to Paul, and have found a great deal of success, and a minimizing of negative edits. I suggest you take the plank from your own eye, before removing the mote from Pauls. Sam Spade 21:39, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * With respect, Jack, I have tried to be reasonable and polite and welcoming, and did not find it successful. I appreciate the fact that you've been able to, and hopefully you can continue to resson with him. It seems that my role in this will simply remain that of trying to enforce NPOV through my edits and endure his calling me a PC Marxist. Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 21:43, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)

 * So long as you strive to be as inclusive and non-partisan as possible, rather than defining "NPOV" as your POV (as I'm sure Paul assumes) then I think thats great. I don't want you to take me the wrong way, I have seen evidence of vandalism from Paul (blanking of pages) and complained about it myself. On the other hand, I have seen Paul make a good edit, and then it be reverted with the edit note stating it was "vandalism" (you were not involved in the incident I am refering to, BTW). This sort of thing gives him no small amount of justification. I must say, IMO there is no shortage of "PC marxists" here or in so many other places of learning, and from the POV I have seen in some places (particularly areas of politics or religion) on the wiki I can understand why Paul would choose these particular accusations. Why he levels them at you, or other specific individuals I can't say, not knowing enough of the particulars. Sam Spade 23:48, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sam,

Here are some of the "particulars", some of which Bcorr "erased" to cover his own tracks and lying hypocrisy!:

? Moroccan Cuisine

Wouldn't it be easier to make the real edit in the first place? -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:32, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * What I wrote was accurate. What I replaced was somewhere on the scale from culturally niave to racist.  I was not insulting.  I did not say "filthy, lecherous Westerners".  You reverted.  You could have done the edit you suggest I do.  You have corrected me but you have not corrected Wikipedia.  If you are concerned about Wikipedia then you should remove the pre-exisiting inaccurate insult.  Otherwise please explain the motivation for your action.

 * I don't monitor others' Talk pages. Reply to mine, please.

 * Paul Beardsell 02:41, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * My point is simple. If there's a problem, correct it. Adding facetious text in in attempt to get someone else to fix the problem you found is not generally productive. Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:58, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * To make my point more plain: Imagine if on the American Cuisine page there was the equally misleading comment Kentucky Fried Chicken is usually eaten at brothels.  Paul Beardsell 03:00, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * and that was replaced by KFC is sometimes fed to North African tourists at so-called restaurants.

 * Then I would change it without adding something about overfed Americans eating ersatz Southern cuisine at a multinational fast-food chain... -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 03:03, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * In reply: You also had the opportunity but did not take it.  The reversion  was unnecessary policing.  With the same effort you could have made the constructive change you want me to make.  You have blindly crossed the street to correct a jay walker.  Paul Beardsell 03:06, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Whatever -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 03:17, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * To make your point about how I could act more constructively you reverted a Wikipedia article to an inaccurate version. That's "whatever".  Paul Beardsell 03:28, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * For the record, my change was not of the above character, but was unemotive and factual. What BCorr is objecting to (I think) is the phrasing of the comment I made about my change.  The actual edit is itself difficult to object to as it is both unemotionally phrased and accurate.  It is not "facetious", as alleged.  View the moroccan cuisine version log and diffs.  Paul Beardsell 03:44, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

''I have copied the above text to the Moroccan Cuisine talk page. Paul Beardsell 03:54, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)''

? Paul Vogel rants again

"A supremacist [snip] at all costs." STOP MIS-REDIRECTING THIS NPOV ARTICLE TO A MARXIST-PC POV. THANKS! User:24.45.99.191

We will continue to revert your edits to remove your POV about what you claim are differences between white supremacists and white separatists. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 18:11, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC) It is NOT my claim, it is the actual NPOV distinction between them, and whether your own POV actually thinks there is one or NOT!

"A supremacist [snip] at all costs."

STOP MIS-REDIRECTING THIS NPOV ARTICLE TO A MARXIST-PC POV. THANKS! User:24.45.99.191

 * We will continue to revert your edits to remove your POV about what you claim are differences between white supremacists and white separatists. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 18:11, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It is NOT my claim, it is the actual NPOV distinction between them, and whether your own POV actually thinks there is one or NOT!

---

"A supremacist [snip] to avoid at all costs."

(text added by Paul Vogel, abridged by BCorr)

? Paul Vogel reprise

Thanks! Glad to see a sysop hard at work! Perl 02:05, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * We aim to please! I'll just redelete it and remove it from Vfd. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:07, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * "Hard at work" only preventing any truely NPOV articles from actually ever seeing the light of day! What a cabal of Marxist-pc POV bigots and censors!

 * Maybe I'm just a Wikisupremacist...or is that Wikiseparatist? -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:42, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * No, neither, just a wiki F-head! That's only being objective and accurate and with a typically here, "Wiki NPOV!" LOL! :D (added by Paul Vogel)

 * That there are two words might suggest there is a difference in the meaning between them. What does the DICTIONARY say.  Ah!  [That I can see a difference does not make me a supporter of either concept.]  Paul Beardsell 02:49, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * [and it is that I comment on this page that makes me point that out.] Paul Beardsell 03:17, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * He can format it but he can't reply to it. Paul Beardsell 04:02, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Here is my reply, oh snippy and demanding one: White separatist-- BCorr ¤ Брайен 04:26, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, I'm happier now. Nice article.  (pat).  Snippy is a bit rich from you.  (slap).  Paul Beardsell 04:37, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It seems to me that much of the heat in this discussion could have been defused by an admission early on that a difference between separatism and supremacism is acknowledged but that a NPOV form of words was being sought. Now that difference is acknowledged. That is really all the non-supremacist separatists (whether you believe their position is tenable or not) wanted. It seems to me that some of the unseemly language, however regrettable, was provoked. Paul Beardsell 04:49, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

--

Thanks for honestly taking my case, Sam aka Jack!

Best regards,

Paul Vogel

PS--Treat someone with such "dis-respect", as BCorr has done with me and with others, ie. "whatever", when they had been objectively "proven wrong" or were shown to be "unreasonable", and then you will be only treated the same in turn.

''Note: Much of the above is from my current talk page. Each place above where it says [snip] -- which I assume is what Paul is referring to that I erased -- is the same Strom quote that Paul kept inserting in articles. He put it on my talk page and I deleted the majority of the quote while leaving thebeginning and the end. I don't want to have any more copies of that Strom quote floating around than necessary.'' -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 21:11, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

'''I don't want to have any more copies of that Strom quote floating around than necessary. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 21:11, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)'''

What is wrong with that Strom quote, BCorr, and why wouldn't you want it more well known? Maybe because it is true and undermines your own false POV beliefs?

Paul Vogel is right. BCorr and many of the other editors at Wikipedia have been reverting his edits, based only on their own leftist POV, verses Paul's factual and objective and NPOV edits. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for your bigoted censorship of Paul Vogel! - 216.99.245.153

 * Seeing as 216.99.245.153 just tried refilling Cosmotheism with Vogelisms, may I suggest a quick reread of sock puppet. - David Gerard 12:53, Mar 6, 2004 (UTC)

Since David Gerard here is such a lying hypocrite, I do suggest that all others here do a quick re-read of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigot and political correctness.

 * That kind of direct attack does not serve your arguments here. - Texture 19:24, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree! David Gerards' "direct attack" of sock puppet only provoked a similar response in kind!

 * As I said on Talk:National Alliance:

 * Paul, if your edits are consistently reverted by many others, two possible explanations spring to mind:

 * There is a conspiracy against you to suppress the truth; or
 * You are failing to write stuff in the articles that someone disagreeing with you couldn't fairly dispute.

 * The NPOV article talks at length about this second one, as does NPOV tutorial.

 * Please do consider that you might actually get more of your points across if you played better with others and didn't act in a manner closely resembling a crank - spamming a couple of paragraphs across multiple articles and talk pages, spamming copies of an entire article to its talk page, changing quotes, obvious sock puppetry, etc.

 * By the way, why don't you ever sign your posts to talk pages? - David Gerard 19:55, Mar 8, 2004 (UTC)

We all know, David, by your own "actions" and "censorship" and "biased bannings" and "lying hypocrisy" that you are indeed posting with such a POV verses a Wiki NPOV in mind during your posts and editing!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Cosmotheism&oldid=2682575

What else isn't new?

 * Paul, if your edits are consistently reverted by many others, two possible explanations spring to mind:
 * There is a conspiracy against you to suppress the truth; or
 * You are failing to write stuff in the articles that someone disagreeing with you couldn't fairly dispute.

Or, #3, all of the above, as there has not been any "fair" disagreements about what I have written, as what I had written was only based upon the actual NPOV facts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Cosmotheism&oldid=2682575

 * The NPOV article talks at length about this second one, as does NPOV tutorial.

I AM well aware of what NPOV SAYS and MEANS, and that is WHY I am so DISGUSTED with some of the biased POV EDITORS here, that do SAY one thing BUT only DO quite ANOTHER!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Cosmotheism&oldid=2682575

Their ACTIONS DO SPEAK much LOUDER than their WORDS!

 * Please do consider that you might actually get more of your points across if you played better with others and didn't act in a manner closely resembling a crank - spamming a couple of paragraphs across multiple articles and talk pages, spamming copies of an entire article to its talk page, changing quotes, etc - David Gerard 16:07, Mar 8, 2004 (UTC)

Do consider that not being such a "lying hypocrite" would actually give you some "personal integrity", and that would likely create the desire in people with actual personal integrity to "play better" with you, David Gerard. :D

Allegations
The allegations placed on the request for comments page are accurate, as is Pauls claim of being censored. This is a perfect example of the "official" wiki POV. Being a communist or an anarchist is aok, but a nazi or a racist is unnaceptable. Thats BS. Having a diversity of editors is one of the best ways to ensure NPOV. The important thing is that we utilize citations, verifiability, and proper wording "some people believe X, for ABC reasons, see [reference] for more information" etc... Placing only one POV in an article, and passing it off and NPOV truth is again BS. In conclusion, I have seen Paul make numerous quality edits, as well as numerous crappy edits and even a few acts of vandalism. But the truth is, he is getting steadilly better over time, you all just didn't know him way back when he started ;) I see a potential editor in Paul, and definitely a source of non-"offical wiki POV" to counterbalance things with. Additionally, he is likely the most knowledgable (from what I have seen) out of all of us when it comes to the pages he chooses to edit. He isn't messing about on communism, I can tell you that ;) Lets try hard to lead by example, so that anybody, regardless of how "wrong" their POV is, can still edit here. Sam Spade 21:07, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Examples of when I am "right"! :D

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject-object_problem

And here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.45.99.191

Block
Given Vogel's continued trolling I think it's necessary to block his IP addresses permanently AndyL 02:58, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Block YOURSELF and YOUR OWN CENSOROUS POV ILK!
Given AndyL, and his "ilk" of "lying hypocrites" continued calls for banning and censoring anyone that does not have ONLY his own "ilk's", pov, maybe he and his own "cabal" of censorous and "lying hypocrites" should be banned and blocked permanently from the Wikipedia Project?-PV

 * I think calls for bans or blocks can be wrong. But I think comments like  yours at Talk:Holocaust that call down blood curses on people who you see as enemies turn this project into a nasty and cruel place.

On the contrary, you are just taking the comment out of context-PV:

"As is usual, such Wiki "no personal attacks" and such "no more than + 3 revert" policies only apply to "others" and never to yourself and  + your own "ilk". The usual "Double-Standard".

+ '''Obviously, the only ones being "blood cursed" are only + those that actually are "lying hypocrites" and that are + always censoring the TRUTH'''. +   + "HOW DARE you personally insult me with falsely and personally insulting me and calling me any "anti-Semitic" or "troll nature" because you do not understand just how relevant and important that section within the article actually is?    + You are such an narrow-minded bigot that you do not see what the future holds for all Jews, everywhere, with your own selfish and biased bigotry and ignorant pov editing of the truth.    + A blood curse be upon all of your ilk that always censors the Truth for any such selfish and foolish and bigoted narrow-mindedness!" +   + I stand by EVERY WORD I SAID, and if the shoe fits, you do wear it well! :D"-PV

I understand you are upset, Paul, but I think your comments are more out of line than those of the editors who are reacting to you.

That only proves your own bias, as my comments were the result of their censorship and lying hypocrisy and slanderous false personal insults.-PV

You have successfully inflamed an opposition (your actions suggest to me that you wanted an opposition) and it seems odd to me that you would now blame them for their emotional reactions which you seem (in my estimation) to actively provoke.

Since when should ANY factual alternative povs "actively provoke emotional reactions"? You are blaming me for their "negative emotional reactions" to the TRUTH?-PV

Are you unaware of your effect on others? I grant that some people have said rude things to you, but have you not seen your comments that incited them?

Again, since when should ANY factual alternative povs "actively provoke emotional reactions"? You are falsely blaming me only for their own "negative emotional reactions" to the TRUTH?-PV

I think this calls for serious introspection from everyone involved, you included. Jwrosenzweig 15:54, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree. The factual and objective and NPOV TRUTH is SACRED and it should ALWAYS come FIRST before ANYONE's own selfish and pov "negative emotional reactions", or before ANY "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" and most especially within any TRUTHFUL and factually accurate and objective and NPOV ENCYCLOPEDIA, does it not?-PV

PS-Evidence? Right here:

"User talk:AndyL From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Andy, why do you keep using different login names? You know you can always sign into different computers with the same name, if you know the password? john 03:07, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Okay, got it. Nice work on James Gregor by the way, if only for the way it'll almost certainly shut up the people who've been citing him. On the other hand, strikes me as a bit POV. The entire article, as it stands now, is about the guy's earlier career. The fact that he has since become a relatively well-respected (at least in certain circles) political scientist at Berkeley, worthy of serious reviews in the Journal of Modern History, and so forth, and that most of the stuff mentioned came from very early in his career, ought to be mentioned - I don't think that makes it any less of a condemnation of the guy, assuming it's true. john 03:32, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Oh, I don't think we should excuse the guy. The early racist stuff should be talked about. I think it should then say something about how in recent years, he's kept pretty quiet about that part of his past, discuss his more recent work (which, since the 70s at least, seems to have been devoted to promoting his idiosyncratic views on fascism - which he seems to rather like, in general), and call it a day. john 03:42, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I was going to say that we should mention it much as we ought to discuss William Rehnquist's pro-segregationist past (including writing a brief for Justice Jackson expressing his opposition to school desegregation while the Brown case was being discussed), but then go on and talk about the rest of his career. Unfortunately, as you can see, the Rehnquist page is pretty astonishingly terrible for such an important person. john 03:44, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

By the way, my "Stalinism (as an extension of Marxian socialism)" comment was meant to summarize Arendt's views on totalitarianism, and specifically the relationship of Nazism to socialism. She sees Nazism and Stalinism as similar as a result of convergent evolution - that is, Stalinism evolved out of socialism, and Nazism out of 19th century anti-semitic racism - but not of common origin. That was the point of the comments, although I must say that Stalinism, however detestable it was, and however much of a distortion of Marxist principles, was certainly an ideology with pretty clear and traceable Marxist roots. john 04:20, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yes, that's fine. Such detail belongs more in a discussion of Arendt or of totalitarianism, anyway. john 04:31, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Wow, this guy is unbelievable. I'm astonished that anyone gave him tenure, or is willing to review his books in serious journals. john 05:19, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

By the way, when moving pages, you should use the "move page" feature, rather than cutting and pasting. Cutting and pasting makes the article history much harder to get at. If there's already stuff at the older site, you should ask an admin (I'm one) to delete the page you're moving to (assuming there's no significant history there). john 05:35, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The Gregor thing is pretty hilarious. It's so wonderful that the libertarian right idolizes this Janus book because it "proves" that fascism is leftist, without realizing that Gregor is a fascist. john 05:37, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It's April the 2nd in some countries - and 7pm UTC - so no more april fools. Secretlondon 19:32, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I understand that. You've been doing a goog job salvaging it. Articles of this nature seem to be proliferating at an uncontrollable pace, though. 172 06:34, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Table of contents [showhide] 1 Fascism edits should be moved

1 White Separatist 2 Quickpolls 3 preventative 4 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact 5 message 6 Hardial Bains

Fascism edits should be moved I'd like to point out that socialism and fascism edits should probably be moved to Socialism and Nazism, since that page was set up specially for that topic. Please move them there, Thank you! Kim Bruning 22:25, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC) Kim Bruning 22:25, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC) Hi AndyL, good to meet you. Nice work on the facism and socialism section of facism. Well-balanced, clear, and to the point. Tannin 22:13, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

White Separatist I don't mind a request for protection one bit. Heck, I'll thank you! Get those silly POV edits off my RC patrolling. :) Fennec 03:13, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, I think a block on the anon might have served us all more. But I cannot blame you for your action as the page was underseige to some extent. I just doubt this protection will solve the problem as Sam Spade (who seems to be sympathetic to some of the anon's views) just moved the dispute to Racialist see Talk:Racialist for the debate which he lost. thanks. GrazingshipIV 21:50, Apr 13, 2004 (UTC)

Quickpolls I'm afraid I can't vote in a quickpoll for another week or so yet, due to seniority reasons. - Fennec 03:04, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You need to sign your Quickpoll creations. But I don't think we need to do that for anons. RickK 03:12, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I redirected the Rhodesia to the Zimbabwe entry because it ought to be a section with its own heading in an entry on Zimbabwe history rather than a self-standing entry. I've never seen another encyclopedia published after 1980 with an entry on Rhodesia. The Rhodesia entry in every encyclopedia I've seen, from Britannica to Encarta, merely reads "see Zimbabwe." So, my redirect stemmed from technical and organization concerns rather than concerns pertaining to the content in that particular article. However, I'll integrate the content before the redirecting the article next time so that my rationale isn't misunderstood. 172 03:40, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC) Please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship#Nominations for adminship, where you were nominated for admin. 172 04:13, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Please let me know when you're done with Fascism and Communism. The stuff you've moved to Anti-communism makes little sense in that context, but I see that you're still moving things around and making edits, so I'm not going to get in the way. I'm trying to put an end to Reaction to McCarthyism, which seems to have become little more than a dumping ground for POV texts, by moving the salvageable parts to McCarthyism and Anti-communism. Diderot 11:29, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Your articles on communsits of China, Korea, Vietnam: unfortunately I am of little help in these issues. Mikkalai 17:44, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

preventative My Osford Advanced Learner's Dictionary lists preventative as a (not preferred) alternative of preventive. I guess you can explain this for a foreigner like me? ;-) --Ruhrjung 00:41, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Your last few edits there caused some duplication (of which I've been seeing a lot lately, for some reason . . . is there a software glitch somewhere?) so that I can't tell what was added and what (if anything) was removed. Do you think you could go back there and take out the duplicate text? —No-One Jones 02:17, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

message Thanks for taking an interest in white separatism Sam Spade is trying to advance a racist agenda for some reason, please keep an eye on the page to make sure he does not succeed.GrazingshipIV 07:19, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

That Sam Spade's a tricksy one. I can't tell whether he's generally good natured and just really ignorant/stupid, and thus isn't able to tell NPOV from coddling of weird extremist view points (or perhaps he's a dostoevskyan idiot, too good for this world, who knows?), or he's got an agenda. I have a hard time figuring out exactly what his agenda might be, but the whole thing is irritating. john 07:36, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up on PV. It looks like it is temporarily being managed. The problem is, anyone who uses anonymous IP numbers is hard to block effectively. A temporary solution is to protect the page. I am a sysop but I have been involved in the dispute so I cannot protect the page. I suggest that if he reappears you ask another sysop to block the page. I brought up the matter on the list-serve and it was pretty much ignored. I think we have managed to control PV by reverting, but if he comes back there is a need for something more serious and I am not sure if the mediation process is the appropriate thing. Slrubenstein anon IP are normally hard to block but he obviously has dedicated IPs that would be easy to block indefinitely. The same ones get used repeatedly making me believe (depending on time of day) that these are work and home. - Tεxτurε 20:16, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC) In response to John he is a racist posing as an apathetic loser IMO. But for Andy AC stands for the Arbitration committee there will be ample info there. GrazingshipIV 04:15, Apr 21, 2004 (UTC)

Grazingship is right about the AC. You'll want to read Wikipedia:Dispute resolution to consider other options, since you don't want to appeal to the AC unless you're sure they'll say yes. Mediation is a possibility I would suggest you consider. You might want to talk to an advocate (See Wikipedia:AMA) about your options -- some of them are mediators or arbitrators, and they might be able to guide you here. If I can be of any more help, good luck. Arbitration is a difficult thing to pursue. Jwrosenzweig 15:13, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hardial Bains Andy, Hope I am posting this in the right place... still getting used to this site... The info you got on Hardial Bains from that website I have read before. Well some of it may be factual, other things are denied by my Comrades in CPC(M-L). For one thing, when I mentioned the Communist Party of Trinidad and Tobago to some CPC(M-L) people, I was told that Bains did NOT have anything to do with the founding of it. This was not something contraversial, so if their is one error in that source, I am sceptical about the entire piece. I later confirmed that Bains did not found the party in Trinidad when I met someone who is in the party. I also heard it is not true Bains said that "Women are more Revolutionary than men".

We need to keep in mind that Bains is a very contraversial figure on the Left here in Canada, and that there is a lot of gossip and half-truths, as well as straight up lies about him.

That article is old, and I would prefer to hear the story of CPC(M-L) on those accusations."

Here is the exact QUOTE of mine and in proper CONTEXT:

"The article section is "quite appropriate" for the reasons I have just given, what information, specifically, was "not suitable" and "why" for the position in the article? HOW DARE you personally insult me with falsely and personally insulting me and calling me any "anti-Semitic" or "troll nature" because you do not understand just how relevant and important that section within the article actually is? You are such an narrow-minded bigot that you do not see what the future holds for all Jews, everywhere, with your own selfish and biased bigotry and ignorant pov editing of the truth. A blood curse be upon all of your ilk that always censors the Truth for any such selfish and foolish and bigoted narrow-mindedness!"-PV

PS--Now I DO understand what "Mel Gibson" went through with his The Passion of the Christ!!!

"Defense against charges of anti-Semitism When Gibson was asked if his movie would be offensive to Jews today, he responded, "It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth. I want to be as truthful as possible. But when you look at the reasons Christ came, he was crucified - he died for all mankind and he suffered for all mankind. So that, really, anyone who transgresses has to look at their own part or look at their own culpability."

In an interview in The New Yorker, Gibson charges that he trimmed a scene from The Passion of the Christ involving the Jewish high priest Caiaphas because if he did not, "they'd be coming after me at my house, they'd come to kill me." In response, Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a Jewish civil rights group, publicly charged Gibson with anti-Semitism, and New York Times critic Frank Rich openly accused Gibson of "Jew-baiting".

In an apparent effort to stem the tide of criticism, Gibson arranged for screenings of the film; yet these merely caused more criticism, as his audiences included prominent Christians and Jews known for their political and social conservatism. Requests for a screening by the ADL were declined. American film reviewer, Michael Medved -- a secular Jewish author, columnist and film reviewer -- praised the movie's Biblical accuracy, although a February 16, 2004 Newsweek cover story by Jon Meacham suggests that there are numerous inaccuracies in the movie. Similarly, one statement by the ADL read:

"For filmmakers to do justice to the biblical accounts of the passion, they must complement their artistic vision with sound scholarship, which includes knowledge of how the passion accounts have been used historically to disparage and attack Jews and Judaism. Absent such scholarly and theological understanding, productions such as The Passion could likely falsify history and fuel the animus of those who hate Jews." [8] The ADL recently made a web page providing examples of anti-Semitic responses to the ADL's criticism of this project. [9] Critics of the ADL retort that it couldn't possibly be the film that caused any hateful e-mails to the ADL because the film isn't in theatres yet; it is, instead, the ADL's attacks against a film on the life of Jesus that was the motivation. The Catholic League has responded to the ADL by accusing the organization of "seeking to poison relations between Catholics and Jews," contending that the "attacks on Mel Gibson have little to do with some off-the-cuff quips and everything to do with waging a frontal assault against all those people - Catholics, Protestants, Jews et al. - who have seen 'The Passion' and love it." [10] Other commentators who have seen the film - such as Cal Thomas and Roger Ebert - have also categorically denied that the film contains anti-Semitic material. [11] "

The same CENSOROUS slanderous "ILK" of LYING HYPOCRITES and BIGOTS, as back then, are actually the same ones NOW!-PV

For example, this false "personal insult" of "troll" and his bigoted attempt to censor and ban or block me:

Troll 24.45.99.191 who's name is Paul Vogel and is the same troll I complained about earlier in my quick poll (using another IP address, 64. something which I *think* has been blocked) is still at it. Since he's not a registered user and the consensus is that anon users needn't be subjected to the same quickpoll process as registered users could you please review his activity and see if he merits banning. Thanks AndyL 18:18, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

PS-FYI: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=hypocritical

- WHAT IS A TROLL?

Well, in a nut-shell, a TROLL is someone who constantly disrupts a posting community for no reason other than just because they CAN. They will often post off-topic, and attack members of the posting community that have done nothing to provoke them. The troll will then often try to make it look like the posting community member had attacked THEM. They will constantly refer to posts made by that member in which the member had "flamed" them verbally or had personally attacked them in the posting community. What they naturally always fail to ALSO HONESTLY say is that the posts of the victim are in direct RESPONSE to a flame war originated by the troll himself.

I am NOT any TROLL nor VANDAL, NOR any other SLANDEROUS PERSONAL INSULT that these lying and hypocritical and psychological projectionist bigoted and censorous ilk have so falsely accused me of being!-PV

Examples of this same cabal and ilk of at least twelve lying and censorous hypocrites and bigots abusing the QuickPolls policy and forming mobs to ban and to censor any other individual POV's that they do falsely and do selfishly and do in their own distorted pov's do find to be somehow "threatening" to them in some way:

User:24.45.99.191 (15 votes / 12 for / 3 oppose / 80% in favour) This user is intent on labeling Carl Sagan a pantheist. He will not accept any NPOV compromise attempts (that edit was instantly reverted) and has violated the three revert rule, even after a warning not to do so. Please peruse the page history for more information. He has also labeled other users "BIGOTS and CENSORS" and put the entire text of the Carl Sagan page on my talk page.

I propose a 24-hour ban ASAP.—Eloquence 20:31, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)

I recommend extending this ban to all IPs listed as aliases on Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress: 65.125.10.66/24.45.99.191/216.99.245.171/216.99.245.184/66.2.156.38 - Texture 20:38, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Note that the user has now, on his talk page, stated that he finds my NPOV compromise acceptable, but has gone around and pasted his preferred version on various pages, including Talk:Carl Sagan.—Eloquence 20:46, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC) Implemented. silsor 22:37, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)

Support

Texture 20:32, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) - this is not a new trend EddEdmondson 20:33, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) Jwrosenzweig 20:34, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) - 24 hour ban seems most wise. Hadal 20:36, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) - Vogel has a long, tiresome history of trying to insert his POV and attacking anyone who dare oppose. UninvitedCompany 21:05, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) Ruhrjung 21:32, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) (not sure if Quickpolls so to say were intended for non-logged in users, but I think it's a good idea) Michael Snow 21:42, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) Tannin I'm not convinced that a quickpoll is needed for this obvious case. To me, it looks like one that any non-involved admin would be justified in implementing without needing the poll. You could look at it as a test case for using quickpolls as opposed to the existing approach. --Michael Snow 22:40, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) Ambivalenthysteria 23:40, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) Taku 00:58, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC) Ashibaka ✎ 01:16, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC) Adam Conover 01:36, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC) - also see his similar behavior on Subject-object problem and Talk:Subject-object problem. Oppose

I haven't seen sufficient discussion by others in the talk page. Put the dispute to a vote first. anthony (this comment is a work in progress and may change without prior notice) 21:29, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) I don't see sufficient evidence of having discussed the matter with him, warned him, etc... Paul is difficult, but not unreasonable (he even agrees w the compromise now, according to what is said above). Besides, I don't see a big difference between the two edits, its not like he was vandalizing or anything. I suppose I should be greatful that you even discussed it, instead of banning him outright, as usual. Sam Spade 22:36, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC) I never banned him. What are you talking about? Countless people have tried to discuss the matter with him, see Talk:Carl Sagan/pantheism.—Eloquence I was refering to the past, situations not involving you. He is banned alot. And I don't see that discussion on talk:carl sagan as having been considerate of wikiquette, paul is not alone in having failed to be considerate in his communications (again not refering to you, don't be so thin-skinned ;) Sam Spade 00:25, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC) Well, I feel that I have been reasonable with PV in the past, and he has always responded with an undue amount of hostility. I think it would be a good idea to send him an official message: "You can only go so far, but not further. Please try to work with others instead of bullying them into submission."—Eloquence An official letter would be fine, but don't live up to his expectations, if it can be helped. He is a lively person, well used to debating these matters, but he isn't a troll IMO. He provides info, w citations, and sincerely wants to provide factual info in the article. He also has been becoming increasingly more reasonable about obeying policy. The only vanalism I have ever seen him to do involved blanking a talk page And that has almost never happened, in the aprox 6 months I have known him. He does have issues w flooding talk pages or wikiquette, but I think that stems for not understanding the applicable policies, or overzealousness. Sam Spade 01:33, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC) The actual discussions on the article's talk page are unreasonable. Efforts were not made to create NPOV; rather, efforts were made to convince people that Paul's POV was completely wrong. ugen64 03:17, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC) Comments and abstentions on 24.45

Looks like a ban is appropriate. I've not been a wikipedian long enough to vote, however. Dr. Z 20:52, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

This user repeatedly reverted the Carl Sagan page and made inappropriate remarks on the talk page. GrazingshipIV 21:18, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC) Do we need to do Quickpolls for anonymous users? Kingturtle 00:36, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC) My first reaction is - no. The vast majority of our vandalism is from anons, and I hesitate to support anything that would make someone reluctant to remove a misbehaving anon. →Raul654 00:39, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC) I oppose Quickpolls on anons, it would be impossible to do anything about vandalism. RickK | Talk 02:20, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC) I don't think there should be any diff b/t anons with Userpages and other users. One of the beautiful things about MWiki is that anons automatically have a userspace. (Cf. User_talk:24.45.99.191) +sj+ 21:10, 2004 Apr 2 (UTC)

a comment by Moby
A brief synopsis of my interaction with this person, and his with me can be found on my Talk page. I am as yet undecided in what I think the best response to this person would be. That he is a nuisance is OBVIOUS. I find his views, his attitudes, and his behavior abhorrent. Whether I think he should be banned or not remains a question I am still pondering. - Moby 19:41, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Evidence for the Defense of Paul Vogel by Sam Spade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sam_Spade/Clients#Paul_Vogel


text:
Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 23

Images
Use only ONE image at a time

Eligible

 * 1780 – American Revolutionary War: British officer John André was captured by Patriot forces, thereby revealing a plot by Continental Army general Benedict Arnold to hand over West Point, New York.
 * 1803 – Maratha troops were defeated by forces of the British East India Company at the Battle of Assaye, one of the decisive battles of the Second Anglo-Maratha War.
 * 1913 – The United Mine Workers of America begin a strike against the Rockefeller-owned Colorado Fuel & Iron Company, sparking the Colorado Coalfield War.
 * 1952 – U.S. vice-presidential candidate Richard Nixon delivered the Checkers speech (pictured), one of the first political uses of television to appeal directly to the populace.
 * 2008 – A gunman shot and killed ten students at the Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences in Kauhajoki, Finland, before committing suicide.
 * 2010 – Teresa Lewis became the first woman to be executed by the U.S. state of Virginia since 1912, and the first woman in the state to be executed via lethal injection.
 * 2016 – Following a number of high-profile sexual assaults, major reforms were enacted to strengthen laws related to rape in Germany.
 * 2019 – The British travel company Thomas Cook Group ceased operations with immediate effect, leaving around 600,000 tourists stranded around the world.
 * Born this day: Eleonora Gonzaga |b|1598| Joseph Dudley |b|1647| John Ainsworth Horrocks |d|1846| Émilie Gamelin |d|1851| Ellen Hayes |b|1851| Paul Delvaux |b|1897| Louise Nevelson |b|1899| Werner Voss |d|1917|  Ambroise Noumazalaye |b|1933| Sigmund Freud  |d|1939| Kostas Tournas |b|1949| Cherie Blair |b|1954| Michiru Yamane |b|1963| Sean Spicer |b|1971 }}

September 23: Celebrate Bisexuality Day

 * 1122 – Pope Callixtus II and Holy Roman emperor Henry V agreed to the Concordat of Worms (pictured), ending the Investiture Controversy.
 * 1642 – First English Civil War: The Battle of Powick Bridge, the first engagement between the primary field armies of the Royalists and the Parliamentarians, ended in a Royalist victory.
 * 1884 – The French steamship Arctique ran aground on the northern coast of Cape Virgenes in Argentina; gold was discovered during the rescue effort, triggering the Tierra del Fuego gold rush.
 * 1920 – The Louisiana hurricane dissipated over Kansas after forcing around 4,500 people to evacuate and causing $1.45 million in damages.
 * 2010 – Teresa Lewis became the first woman to be executed by the U.S. state of Virginia since 1912, and the first woman in the state to be executed by lethal injection.

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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 24

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 * 1568 – At San Juan de Ulúa (present-day Veracruz, Mexico), a Spanish naval fleet forced English privateers to halt their trade (battle depicted).
 * 1789 – The Judiciary Act of 1789 was signed into law, establishing the U.S. federal judiciary and setting the number of Supreme Court Justices at six.
 * 1841 – Raja Muda Hashim, the uncle of Omar Ali Saifuddin II, Sultan of Brunei, conceded land to the British adventurer James Brooke (pictured) to establish the Raj of Sarawak.
 * 1877 – At the Battle of Shiroyama (depicted), the final engagement of the Satsuma Rebellion, the Imperial Japanese Army defeated rebel samurai of the Satsuma Domain led by Saigō Takamori.
 * 1903 – Alfred Deakin became the second Prime Minister of Australia, succeeding Edmund Barton who left office to become a founding Justice of the High Court of Australia.
 * 1911 – His Majesty's Airship No. 1, Britain's first rigid airship, was wrecked by strong winds before her maiden flight at Barrow-in-Furness.
 * 1945 – Dozens of Jews were injured in the Topoľčany pogrom, one of the worst episodes of anti-Jewish violence in postwar Czechoslovakia.
 * 1950 – "The Great Smoke Pall", generated by the Chinchaga fire, the largest recorded fire in North American history, was first recorded in present-day Nunavut and may eventually have circled the entire globe.
 * 1964 – The Warren Commission released its report to the U.S. president, concluding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. The report was made public three days later.
 * 1975 – Dougal Haston and Doug Scott of the Southwest Face expedition became the first people to reach the summit of Mount Everest by ascending one of its faces.
 * 1992 – After his neighbor identified handwriting samples placed on local billboards by police, Oba Chandler was arrested three years after he committed a triple murder in the Tampa Bay area in Florida.
 * 2019 – The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom unanimously ruled that advice given by Prime Minister Boris Johnson to Queen Elizabeth II that Parliament should be prorogued was unlawful.

 * Born/died this day: | Gao Pian |d|887| 'Adud al-Dawla |b|936| Robert of Knaresborough |d|1218| Guru Ram Das |b|1534| Jan Karol Chodkiewicz |d|1621| Antoine-Louis Barye |b|1796| Edward Thomas Daniell |d|1842| Georges Claude |b|1870| F. Scott Fitzgerald |b|1896| Bessie Braddock  |b|1899| John Young|b|1930| Linda McCartney |b|1941Bruno Pontecorvo |d|1993| Gennady Yanayev |d|2010

September 24: Heritage Day in South Africa; Independence Day in Guinea-Bissau (1973)

 * 1645 – English Civil War: Royalists commanded by King Charles I suffered a significant defeat at the Battle of Rowton Heath.
 * 1869 – Jay Gould, James Fisk, and other speculators plotted but failed to control the United States gold market, causing prices to plummet.
 * 1890 – Wilford Woodruff, the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, wrote the first draft of a manifesto that officially disavowed the future practice of plural marriage.
 * 1941 – Operation Barbarossa: A Wehrmacht training event known as the Mogilev Conference began, marking an increase in violence against Jews and other civilians in the areas under General Max von Schenckendorff's command.
 * 1993 – Norodom Sihanouk (pictured) became King of Cambodia with the restoration of the monarchy after a 23-year interregnum.


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 25

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 * 275 – After the assassination of Aurelian, Tacitus was chosen by the Senate to succeed him as Roman emperor.
 * 1066 – Harold Godwinson defeated King Harald III of Norway and his English ally Tostig Godwinson at the Battle of Stamford Bridge, ending the last Norse invasion of the British Isles.
 * 1237 – Henry III of England and Alexander II of Scotland signed the Treaty of York, establishing the Anglo-Scottish border, which mostly remains the same today.
 * 1396 – Ottoman wars in Europe: Ottoman forces under Bayezid I defeated a Christian alliance led by Sigismund of Hungary near present-day Nikopol, Bulgaria.
 * 1775 – American Revolutionary War: Ethan Allen and a small force of American and Quebec militia failed to capture the city of Montreal from British forces.
 * 1800 – French Revolutionary Wars: After U.S. ships became involved, French forces abandoned their invasion of the Batavian island of Curaçao.
 * 1911 – An explosion of badly degraded propellant charges on board the French battleship Liberté detonated the forward ammunition magazines and destroyed the ship.
 * 1944 – Second World War: British troops began their withdrawal from the Battle of Arnhem in the Netherlands, ending the Allies' Operation Market Garden in defeat.
 * 1957 – United States Army troops escorted nine students as Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas was integrated.
 * 1962 – The North Yemen Civil War began when Abdullah al-Sallal dethroned the newly crowned Imam al-Badr and declared Yemen to be a republic under his presidency.
 * 1977 – About 4,200 people took part in the first modern Chicago Marathon.
 * 1981 – Sandra Day O'Connor (pictured) became the first female justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.
 * 1990 – The Ram Rath Yatra, a political–religious rally organised to erect a temple to the Hindu deity Rama on the site of the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya, began in the Indian state of Gujarat.
 * Born/died this day: | Johann Heinrich Lambert |d|1777| Oliver Loving |d|1867| Robert Brackman |b|1898| Jacqueline Audry |b|1908| Jessie Murray |d|1920| Miller Huggins |d|1929| Glenn Gould |b|1932| Johannes Brost |b|1946| Cheryl Tiegs |b|1947| Catherine Zeta-Jones |b|1969| John Bonham |d|1980| José Fernández |d|2016


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 26

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 * 1087 – William II, son of William the Conqueror, was crowned king of England.
 * 1493 – Pope Alexander VI issued the papal bull Dudum siquidem, one of the Bulls of Donation, marking the beginning of the Spanish colonization of the Americas.
 * 1907 – The British Colony of New Zealand officially became a dominion to reflect its political independence since the 1850s.
 * 1917 – World War I: The Battle of Polygon Wood, part of the Battle of Passchendaele, began near Ypres, Belgium.
 * 1928 – The Republic of China adopted Gwoyeu Romatzyh (designer pictured) as the official system for romanization of Mandarin Chinese.
 * 1933 – As gangster Machine Gun Kelly surrendered to the FBI, he supposedly shouted "Don't shoot, G-Men!", which became a nickname for FBI agents.
 * 1944 – World War II: The Soviet Army completed the Tallinn Offensive, driving German forces out of Estonia.
 * 1968 – The Beatles completed the recording of John Lennon's song "Happiness Is a Warm Gun", regarded by all the band members as their favourite on the album The Beatles.
 * 1959 – The Cambodian–Vietnamese War formally ended with the withdrawal of Vietnamese forces from the People's Republic of Kampuchea, a client state it had implemented to overthrow Democratic Kampuchea and the Khmer Rouge.
 * 1959 – Japan was struck by Typhoon Vera, the strongest and deadliest typhoon on record to make landfall on the country, causing damage in excess of US$261 million and more than 5,000 deaths.
 * 1983 – The racing yacht Australia II, captained by John Bertrand, won the America's Cup and ended the New York Yacht Club's 132-year defence of the trophy.
 * 2008 – Swiss pilot and inventor Yves Rossy flew a wingpack powered by jet engines across the English Channel.
 * 2014 – Forty-three students of the Ayotzinapa Rural Teachers' College in Iguala, Mexico, were kidnapped and probably later killed.

 * Born/died: | Francis Daniel Pastorius |b|1651| Richard Grenville-Temple |b|1711| Friedrich Melchior, Baron von Grimm |b|1723| Théodore Géricault |b|1791| Mary Russell, Duchess of Bedford |b|1865| Edith Abbott |b|1876| Bertha De Vriese |b|1877| Vladimir Voinovich |b|1932 Henri Fertet |d|1943| Lynn Anderson |b|1947|  Leslie Morshead |d|1959| Jeanie Buss |b|1961| Ramang |d|1987

September 26

 * 46 BC – Julius Caesar dedicated the Temple of Venus Genetrix in Rome to Venus, the mythical ancestor of his family.
 * 1580 – English explorer Francis Drake's galleon the Golden Hind (replica pictured) sailed into Plymouth, completing his circumnavigation of the globe.
 * 1928 – The Nationalist government of China adopted Gwoyeu Romatzyh as the official system for the romanization of Mandarin Chinese.
 * 1983 – Cold War: Soviet lieutenant colonel Stanislav Petrov averted a potential nuclear war by identifying as a false alarm signals that appeared to indicate an impending U.S. missile attack.
 * 2010 – Scottish aid worker Linda Norgrove and three Afghan colleagues were kidnapped by members of the Taliban in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 27

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 * 1422 – The Treaty of Melno was signed, establishing the Prussian–Lithuanian border, which afterwards remained unchanged for about 500 years.
 * 1825 – Locomotion No. 1 hauled the train on the opening day of the Stockton and Darlington Railway, the first public railway in the world to use steam locomotives.
 * 1854 – The paddle steamer SS Arctic sank after a collision with SS Vesta 50 miles (80 km) off the coast of Newfoundland, killing approximately 320 people.
 * 1875 – The Ellen Southard was wrecked in a storm at Liverpool, England; the U.S. Congress subsequently awarded 27 Gold Lifesaving Medals to the men who rescued her crew.
 * 1908 – The first production Ford Model T, the car credited with initiating the mass use of automobiles in the United States, was completed at the Ford Piquette Avenue Plant in Detroit, Michigan.
 * 1916 – Lij Iyasu (pictured), the emperor-designate of Ethiopia, was deposed in favor of his aunt Zewditu.
 * 1940 – World War II: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and the Empire of Japan signed the Tripartite Pact in Berlin, officially forming a military alliance known as the Axis.
 * 1941 – SS Patrick Henry, the first of 2,710 Liberty ships built during World War II by the United States, was launched.
 * 1949 – Members of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference unanimously selected Zeng Liansong's design for the flag of China.
 * 1964 – The British Aircraft Corporation TSR-2, an advanced Cold War tactical strike and reconnaissance aircraft that was later cancelled, made its maiden flight.
 * 1981 – Iran–Iraq War: Iran broke the Iraqi siege of Abadan by Operation Samen-ol-A'emeh
 * 1988 – Led by pro-democracy activist Aung San Suu Kyi (pictured), the political party National League for Democracy was founded in Burma.
 * 1996 – The Taliban drove Afghan President Burhanuddin Rabbani out of Kabul, tortured and murdered former president Mohammad Najibullah, and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.
 * 2014 – Mount Ontake in central Japan unexpectedly erupted, killing 63 people in the nation's deadliest eruption in more than 100 years.
 * Born/died this day: | Guillaume Rondelet |b|1507| Flaminio Scala |b|1552| Alphonsus Liguori |b|1696| William Rulofson |b|1826| Bernard Courtois |d|1837| Braxton Bragg |d|1876| Ivan Goncharov |d|1891| Edgar Degas |d|1917| Sylvia Pankhurst |d|1960|Gwyneth Paltrow |b|1972| Asashōryū Akinori |b|1980| Kenji Nagai |d|2007 |Mauricio González-Gordon y Díez |d|2013

September 27

 * 1822 – In a letter to the Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres in Paris, Jean-François Champollion announced his initial successes in deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphs on the Rosetta Stone (pictured).
 * 1851 – The British East India Company inaugurated the Horsburgh Lighthouse on the rocky outcrop of Pedra Branca, Singapore, which later became the subject of a territorial dispute.
 * 1917 – The Broadhurst Theatre opened in New York City with a performance of Misalliance by George Bernard Shaw.
 * 1975 – Two members of ETA political-military and three members of the Revolutionary Antifascist Patriotic Front, sentenced to death for murder, became the last people to be executed in Spain.
 * 1983 – American software developer Richard Stallman announced plans for the Unix-like operating system GNU, the first free software developed by the GNU Project.


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 28

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 * 351 – The Eastern Roman armies under Constantius II defeated those of the usurper Magnentius at the Battle of Mursa Major.
 * 1106 – In the Battle of Tinchebray in Normandy, the invading King Henry I of England captured his brother Robert Curthose.
 * 1542 – Explorer Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo (pictured), the first European to travel along the coast of California, landed at what is now the city of San Diego.
 * 1821 – The Declaration of Independence of the Mexican Empire from Spain was drafted in the National Palace in Mexico City.
 * 1924 – A team of U.S. Army Air Service aviators landed in Seattle, Washington, to complete the first aerial circumnavigation of the world.
 * 1972 – Against the backdrop of the Cold War, the Canadian ice hockey team defeated the Soviet team in the Summit Series.
 * 1963 – Whaam!, now considered one of Roy Lichtenstein's most important works, debuted at an exhibition held at the Leo Castelli Gallery, New York City.
 * 1978 – Pope John Paul I died only 33 days after his papal election due to an apparent myocardial infarction, resulting in the first year of three popes since 1605.
 * 2006 – Typhoon Xangsane passed Manila on its way to causing more than 300 deaths, mostly in the Phillippines and Vietnam.
 * 2009 – A protest held by 50,000 people in Conakry, Guinea, was forcefully disrupted by the military junta, resulting in at least 157 deaths and over 1,200 injuries.
 * 2012 – War in Somalia: Somali National Army forces and their AMISOM and Raskamboni allies launched an offensive against Al-Shabaab in the latter's last major stronghold of Kismayo.
 * Born/died: | Francis Turretin |d|1687| Prosper Mérimée |b|1803| Jonathan Clarkson Gibbs |b|1821| Isis Pogson |b|1852| Avery Brundage |b|1887| Louis Pasteur |d|1895| Frank S. Scott |d|1912| Jules Sedney |b|1922| Charles Duryea |d|1938| Patsy Mink |d|2002| George Odlum |d|2003|


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 29

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 * 1918 – World War I: The Battle of St Quentin Canal took place, which led to the British Fourth Army making the first breach of the German defensive Hindenburg Line.
 * 1923 – The Mandate for Palestine came into effect, officially creating the protectorates of Mandatory Palestine under British administration and Transjordan as a separate emirate under King Abdullah I.
 * 1941 – The Holocaust: Nazi forces, aided by Ukrainian collaborators, began a massacre of Jews in a ravine in Kyiv, killing more than 30,000 civilians in two days and thousands more in the following months.
 * 1954 – Willie Mays of the New York Giants made The Catch, one of the most famous defensive plays in the history of Major League Baseball.
 * 1955 – The first Indonesian legislative election resulted in an unexpectedly poor result for the Masyumi Party of incumbent prime minister Burhanuddin Harahap (pictured).
 * 1957 – An explosion at the Soviet nuclear reprocessing plant Mayak released 74 to 1,850 PBq of radioactive material.
 * 1963 – The University of East Anglia was founded in Norwich, England, after talk of establishing a university in the city began as early as the 19th century.
 * 1990 – The Lockheed YF-22, the prototype for the F-22 Raptor, made its first flight.
 * 1991 – The award-winning Disney animated film Beauty and the Beast premiered while unfinished at the New York Film Festival.
 * 2004 – Archaeologists and volunteers began excavation of the remains of Fort Tanjong Katong in Singapore.
 * 2006 – Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907 collided in mid-air with an Embraer Legacy business jet near Peixoto de Azevedo, Brazil, killing 154 people and triggering a national aviation crisis.
 * Born/died: | William of Tyre |d|1186| Arnaud Amalric |d|1225| Ferdinand the Holy Prince |b|1402| Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson |b|1758| Guadalupe Victoria |b|1786| Mercator Cooper |b|1803| Annie Dove Denmark |b|1887| Jim Baxter |b|1939| W. H. Auden |d|1973| Bill Shankly |d|1981|Kevin Durant |b|1988| Valston Hancock |d|1998| Michael A. Monsoor |d|2006

September 29: Michaelmas (Western Christianity)

 * 1011 – An army of Viking pirates that had besieged the English city of Canterbury for weeks took Archbishop Ælfheah prisoner and seized power.
 * 1760 – The Williamsburg Bray School, the oldest-surviving school building in the U.S. dedicated to educating Black children, opened at Benjamin Franklin's suggestion.
 * 1833 – The Spanish American wars of independence ended with the death of King Ferdinand VII, with what had once been the Spanish Empire disintegrating into independent Latin American states.
 * 1940 – During a Royal Australian Air Force training exercise over Brocklesby, two planes collided and interlocked in mid-air (pictured); the pilot of the upper plane was able to land safely using the lower plane's engines.
 * 1954 – Twelve countries signed a convention to establish the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), which manages the world's largest particle physics laboratory.


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/September 30

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 * 737 – Muslim conquest of Transoxiana: Türgesh tribesmen attacked and captured the exposed baggage train of the Umayyad army, sent ahead of the main force.
 * 1551 – Sue Takafusa, a retainer of the Ōuchi clan in western Japan, led a coup against the daimyō Ōuchi Yoshitaka, leading to the latter's forced suicide.
 * 1863 – Georges Bizet's opera Les pêcheurs de perles premiered at the Théâtre Lyrique in Paris.
 * 1882 – The Vulcan Street Plant in Appleton, Wisconsin, the first hydroelectric central station to serve a system of private and commercial customers in North America, went online.
 * 1918 – Nestor Makhno and Fedir Shchus led insurgents to successfully ambush the Central Powers that occupied southern Ukraine during World War I.
 * 1938 – Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Neville Chamberlain, and Édouard Daladier signed the Munich Agreement, stipulating that Czechoslovakia must cede the Sudetenland to Germany.
 * 1939 – Second World War: General Władysław Sikorski (pictured) became the first prime minister of the Polish government-in-exile.
 * 1955 – American film actor James Dean suffered fatal injuries in a head-on car accident near Cholame, California.
 * 1965 – Members of the 30 September Movement attempted a coup against the Indonesian government that was crushed by the military under Suharto, leading to a mass anti-communist purge with more than 500,000 people killed over the following months.
 * 1975 – The Boeing AH-64 Apache (example pictured), the primary attack helicopter for a number of countries, made its first flight.
 * 1982 – Cheers, an American television sitcom, debuted with its pilot episode on NBC.
 * 1998 – The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), a nonprofit organization that manages the assignment of domain names and IP addresses in the Internet, was incorporated.
 * 2005 – The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published controversial editorial cartoons depicting Muhammad, sparking protests across the Muslim world by many who viewed them as Islamophobic and blasphemous.
 * 2009 – A 7.6 MW earthquake struck off the southern coast of Sumatra, Indonesia, killing 1,115 and impacting an estimated 1.2 million people.
 * 2019 – President Martín Vizcarra dissolved the Congress of Peru, resulting in a constitutional crisis.
 * Born/died: | Honorius of Canterbury |d|653| Fan Yanguang |d|940| Rumi |b|1207| Thomas Allen |d|1632| Lucinda Hinsdale Stone |b|1814| Ann Jarvis |b|1832| John Thirtle |b|1839| Charles Villiers Stanford |b|1852| Doris Mackinnon |b|1883| Charlotte Wolff |b|1897|Catie Ball |b|1951| Basia |b|1954| Drew Shafer|d|1989| Anwar al-Awlaki |d|2011|Sonia Orbuch |d|2018


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Talk:Hanns Kerrl

Untitled
Hanns Kerrl was not President of the Reichstag; he was President of the Prussian Landtag. President of the Reichstag was Hermann Göring.

 * It took one and a half years but I finally got round to correcting that apparent mistake. Thanks.   18:59, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Ideologue?
To state, in "Career", that Bormann and Himmler were ideologues seems to me quite unconvincing and sourceless. Also the concept that Hitler was convinced to more extreme policies by other powerful Nazi leaders seems not to be agreed upon by many sources who put things the other way around. Carlotm (talk) 01:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hanns Kerrl


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Sweatshirt

A sweatshirt is a long-sleeved pullover shirt or jacket fashioned out of thick, usually cotton, cloth material. Sweatshirts are almost exclusively casual attire and hence not as formal as some sweaters. Sweatshirts may or may not have a hood. A sweatshirt with a hood is now usually referred to as a hoodie, although more formal media still use the term "hooded sweatshirt".

History
In 1920, Benjamin Russell Jr., a quarterback for the Alabama Crimson Tide Football team, was tired of the constant chafing and itching caused by their wool football uniforms. He worked with his father, whose company Russell Manufacturing Company made women's and children's knit garments, to come up with a better option. They created a thick cotton practice jersey that was a modification of a ladies' union suit top. These loose, collarless pullovers were the first sweatshirts. A new division of the company, focusing solely on the production of sweatshirts, became the Russell Athletic Company.

The sweatshirt's potential as a portable advertising tool was discovered in the 1960s when U.S. universities began printing their names on them to exhibit school pride. The sweatshirt, along with the T-shirt, provided a cheap and effective way of disseminating information on a mass scale. The T-shirt slogan fad of the 1970s inevitably translated to sweatshirts. Due to the relative simplicity of customization and the power of clever graphics combined with catchphrases, sweatshirts became a vehicle for personal expression for both the designer and the wearer.

In Australia, the sweatshirt is referred to as a 'Sloppy Joe'.

title: Sweatshirt


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/October 1

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 * 1800 – With the signing of the Third Treaty of San Ildefonso, Spain returned the colonial territory of Louisiana to France in return for territories in the Italian region of Tuscany.
 * 1832 – The first political gathering of colonists (president pictured) in Mexican Texas convened to seek reforms from the Mexican government.
 * 1868 – St Pancras railway station (pictured) in London, now the terminus of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, opened to the public.
 * 1888 – The first issue of National Geographic was published for the cost of fifty cents (USD), with an introductory address by the President of the magazine, Gardiner G. Hubbard.
 * 1891 – Stanford University, founded by railroad magnate and California governor Leland Stanford and his wife Jane on former farm lands in Palo Alto, California, admitted its first students.
 * 1906 – A deputation of Muslim leaders led by the Aga Khan III met Indian viceroy Lord Minto to secure greater political representation, eventually leading to the founding of the All-India Muslim League.
 * 1940 – The first section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, one of the first long-distance limited-access highways in the U.S., opened to traffic.
 * 1949 – Chinese Communist Party chairman Mao Zedong publicly proclaimed the establishment of the People's Republic of China in Beijing's Tiananmen Square.
 * 1964 – The Free Speech Movement was launched at the University of California, Berkeley, when a crowd of 3,000 students prevented police from transporting Jack Weinberg away after his arrest.
 * 1989 – Civil unions between same-sex couples were legalised in Denmark, the first country to do so.
 * 1991 – Croatian War of Independence: Yugoslav People's Army forces invaded the area surrounding Dubrovnik, Croatia, beginning a seven-month siege of the city.
 * 1994 – A tribunal was established to consider matters relating to the constitution of Singapore upon referral by the president.
 * 1998 – Europol, the EU's law enforcement agency, was formed with the ratification of the Europol Convention by all member states.
 * 2012 – A ferry collision off Lamma Island, Hong Kong, killed 39 people and injured 92 others.
 * 2017 – Stephen Paddock fired more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition from his hotel suite on a crowd attending the Route 91 Harvest music festival on the Las Vegas Strip, resulting in 60 deaths and 867 injuries.
 * 2018 – The International Court of Justice ruled that Chile was under no obligation to restore Bolivia's access to the Pacific Ocean, which it had lost in the 19th century.
 * Born/died: | Severus Alexander |b|208| Morphia of Melitene |d.or|1126; 1127| Henry III of England |b|1207| Yaqub Spata |d|1416| Frans Floris |d|1570| Rose O'Neal Greenhow |d|1864| Helen Mayo |b|1878| Stanley Holloway |b|1890| Eli Whitney Blake Jr. |d|1895| Zhu Rongji |b|1928| Duncan Edwards |b|1936| Rod Carew |b|1945| Ram Nath Kovind |b|1945| Faik Ali Ozansoy |d|1950| Malouma |b|1960| Brie Larson |b|1989| Lucy Li |b|2002


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/October 2

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 * 1263 – Scottish–Norwegian War: Norwegian and Scottish armies fought the Battle of Largs, an inconclusive engagement near the present-day town of Largs, Scotland.
 * 1452 — The future King of England, Richard III is born at Fotheringhay Castle; in 1485 he usurped his brother's throne, denounced his nephews for being illegitimate and was killed at the Battle of Bosworth Field two years later
 * 1835 – Mexican dragoons dispatched to disarm settlers at Gonzales in Mexican Texas encountered stiff resistance from a Texian militia at the Battle of Gonzales, the first armed engagement of the Texas Revolution.
 * 1937 – President Rafael Trujillo announced that Dominican troops had begun mass killings of Haitians living in the Dominican Republic.
 * 1942 – Second World War: HMS Curacoa (D41) (pictured) was accidentally rammed and sunk by RMS Queen Mary while escorting the liner to provide protection from submarine attacks.
 * 1971 – Nguyễn Văn Thiệu was re-elected unopposed as President of South Vietnam.
 * 1990 – A hijacked airliner collided with two other planes while attempting to land at Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport in China, killing 128 and injuring 71.
 * 1996 – A maintenance worker's failure to remove tape covering the aircraft's static ports caused Aeroperú Flight 603 to crash into the ocean near Lima, Peru, killing all 70 people on board.
 * 2006 – A gunman killed five Amish girls before committing suicide in a one-room schoolhouse in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania.
 * 2007 – South Korean president Roh Moo-hyun walked across the Military Demarcation Line on his way to the second inter-Korean summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il.
 * Born/died: | Parviz Mirza |b|1589| David Teniers III |d|1685| François-Timoléon de Choisy |d|1724|  Charles Lee |d|1782| Augustus Keppel |d|1786| Samuel Adams |d|1803| Sarah Biffen |d|1850| Wallace Stevens |b|1879|Ruth Cheney Streeter |b|1895| Lal Bahadur Shastri |b|1904| Sting  |b|1951| Glenn Anderson |b|1960| Maria Ressa  |b|1963| Ayumi Hamasaki |b|1978


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/October 3

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 * 1792 – Spanish forces departed Valdivia to suppress the indigenous Huilliche uprising in southern Chile.
 * 1951 – In Major League Baseball, the New York Giants' Bobby Thomson hit the "Shot Heard 'Round the World", a game-winning home run, to win the National League pennant.
 * 1951 – The First Battle of Maryang-san, widely regarded as one of the Australian Army's greatest accomplishments during the Korean War, began.
 * 1953 – Vancouver's Holy Rosary Cathedral was dedicated by Archbishop William Mark Duke, fifty-three years after it first opened.
 * 1962 – Mercury-Atlas 8, the fifth United States crewed space mission, was launched from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida, carrying astronaut Wally Schirra (pictured).
 * 1963 – Oswaldo López Arellano replaced Honduran president Ramón Villeda Morales in a violent coup, initiating two decades of military rule.
 * 1981 – A hunger strike by Irish republican prisoners at HM Prison Maze outside Belfast, Northern Ireland, ended after seven months and ten deaths.
 * 1989 – Major Moisés Giroldi of the Panama Defense Forces failed in his attempt to overthrow dictator Manuel Noriega.
 * 1992 Sinéad O'Connor tore up a photograph of Pope John Paul II on live television.
 * 2003 – Roy Horn of the American entertainment duo Siegfried & Roy was mauled by a tiger during a performance at the Mirage on the Las Vegas Strip.
 * 2008 – The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, establishing the Troubled Asset Relief Program, commonly referred to as a bailout of the U.S. financial system, was enacted.
 * 2013 – A boat carrying migrants from Libya to Italy sank off the Italian island of Lampedusa, resulting in more than 360 deaths.
 * Born/died: | Elias I of Antioch |d|723| Ermengarde of Hesbaye |d|818|Gabriel Lalemant |b|1610| Pierre Bonnard |b|1867| A. Y. Jackson |b|1882| Caroline Brady |b|1905| Carl Nielsen |d|1931| Charles Duke |b|1935| Olivia Shakespear |d|1938| Kathryn D. Sullivan |b|1951| Gwen Stefani |b|1969


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/October 4

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 * 1448 – Skanderbeg and Gjergj Arianiti sign a peace treaty to end the Albanian–Venetian War.
 * 1633 – Forces from the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth break the Russian siege of Smolensk.
 * 1862 - American Civil War: Union forces capture Galveston, Texas.
 * 1876 – Texas A&M University opened as the first public institution of higher education in the U.S. state.
 * 1917 – First World War: The Allies devastated the German defence at the Battle of Broodseinde, prompting a crisis among German commanders and causing a severe loss of morale in the 4th Army.
 * 1925 – Great Syrian Revolt: Rebels led by Fawzi al-Qawuqji captured the city of Hama from the French Mandate of Syria.
 * 1943 – World War II: Allied forces execute Operation Leader, an air raid against German shipping near Bodø, Norway.
 * 1941 – Willie Gillis, one of Norman Rockwell's trademark characters, debuted on the cover of The Saturday Evening Post.
 * Born/died: | Gabriele Paleotti |b|1522| Henry Wriothesley, 2nd Earl of Southampton |d|1581| Anna of Tyrol |b|1585| John Campbell, 2nd Duke of Argyll |d|1743| Amaro Pargo |d|1747| Joseph A. Lopez |b|1779| Charles Pearson |b|1793| Townsend Harris |b|1804| Jenny Twitchell Kempton |b|1835| Lucy Tayiah Eads |b|1888| Carl Josef Bayer |d|1904| Mary Two-Axe Earley |b|1911|  Zinha Vaz |b|1952| Jack Warhop |d|1960| Graham Chapman |d|1989


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Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/October 5

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 * 610 – Heraclius was crowned Byzantine emperor, having personally beheaded his predecessor, Phocas.
 * 869 – The Fourth Council of Constantinople, the eighth Catholic Ecumenical Council, was convened to discuss the patriarchate of Photios I of Constantinople.
 * 1789 – French Revolution: Upset about the high price and scarcity of bread, thousands of Parisian women and allies marched on the Palace of Versailles.
 * 1869 – During construction of the Eastman tunnel in St. Anthony, Minnesota (now Minneapolis), the Mississippi River broke through the tunnel's limestone ceiling, nearly destroying Saint Anthony Falls.
 * 1903 – Samuel Griffith (pictured) became the first Chief Justice of Australia, while Edmund Barton and Richard O'Connor became the first Puisne Justices of the High Court of Australia.
 * 1936 – Around 200 men began a 291-mile (468 km) march from Jarrow to London, carrying a petition to the British government requesting the re-establishment of industry in the town.
 * 1962 – "Love Me Do", the first single by the Beatles, was released in the United Kingdom.
 * 1962 – Dr. No, the first James Bond film, was released.
 * 1963 – The U.S. suspended the Commercial Import Program, its main economic support for South Vietnam, in response to the oppression of Buddhists by President Ngô Đình Diệm (pictured).
 * 1970 – The environmental organization Greenpeace was incorporated as the Don't Make a Wave Committee in British Columbia, Canada.
 * 1973 – Seven nations signed the European Patent Convention, providing an autonomous legal system according to which European patents are granted.
 * 1975 – Dirty War: The Argentine guerrilla group Montoneros carried out Operation Primicia, a terrorist attack in which they hijacked an Aerolíneas Argentinas flight, captured Formosa International Airport, and attacked a military regiment.
 * 1986 – Eugene Hasenfus plane was shot down by Nicaraguan forces while carrying weapons to the Contra rebels on behalf of the U.S. government; he was subsequently captured, leading to an international controversy.
 * 1988 – During the United States vice-presidential debate, Democratic candidate Lloyd Bentsen told his opponent Dan Quayle, "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."
 * 1999 – Two trains collided head-on at Ladbroke Grove, London, killing 31 people, injuring 417, and severely damaging public confidence in the management and regulation of safety of Britain's privatised railway system.
 * 2011 – Two Chinese cargo ships were attacked on a stretch of the Mekong River in the Golden Triangle area of Southeast Asia, and their crews murdered.
 * Born/died: Paul Fleming |b|1609|Tecumseh |d|1813| Catherine Cooper Hopley |b|1817| Chester A. Arthur |b|1829| Francis William Reitz |b|1844| Kumeko Urabe |Jacques Offenbach |d|1880||b|1902| Magda Szabó |b|1921| Varghese Payyappilly Palakkappilly |d|1929| Eduardo Duhalde |b|1941| Kate Winslet |b|1975| Kelvin Tan |b|1981