text:
User talk:Rudi Dierick

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Angela. 23:38, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)

Please sign your contributions in talk pages
Please read Talk Page and Sign your posts on talk pages, and sign your posts. This is an essential aspect of communication here. It helps other users understand the progress and evolution of a dialog. Thanks. --Edcolins 20:55, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

 * Indeed, that's why I registered as a contributor and read those pages. Whenever you have other or particular suggestions, feel free to forward the official guidelines, or any other scientific or legally relevant information. Statements of political parties and organisations and other non-authoritative sources are more appropriate in specific articles on those organisations, but not in general articles.
 * regards,,   Rudi

islam in France
just to let you know, there was stuff you out on the Islam in France page that were already there
 * Dear, sorry, erronous double posting as far as I understood.   --Rudi Dierick 16:36, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Qaradawi
Dear, about mr. Qaradawi, you said youn wanted to see sources. But, in the text, you have cut out two of the sources I added So what do you really want? It appears to me that you radically remove several well-documented sections that are critical on Qaradawi! That appears to me censorship on objective information! --Rudi Dierick 13:34, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Please post to my talk page, not the user page. You gave the links to the main site, not the exact pages where all these claims are made. The article already has FGM section. Please do not repeat FGM in several different parts of the article. That's redundant. Post your edits about FGM in that section OneGuy 15:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You're welcome
You're welcome. It was not a big deal... Happy new year to you and your family as well. And happy editing! If you have time, do not hesitate to review the L&H article, I feel sorry to be the only one who contributed to it. --Edcolins 20:54, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * Someone has to start it. Also for you, my very best wishes for the coming year.  I will start it with some weeks off ...--Rudi Dierick 14:20, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits are considered vandalism, and if you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you.
 * —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MonsterOfTheLake (talk • contribs) 22:54, July 23, 2006 (UTC).

"Prophet" Muhammed?
This is about your recent edit to the Sharia article:

Currently reads:
 * 'Freedom of speech': "Sharia does not allow freedom of speech on such matters as criticism of the prophet Muhammad."

"Prophet Muhammad" is not NPOV. It should just say Muhammad. The Wiki uses Muhammad everywhere else. The word prophet is used only when hadiths are being referenced. If you have confusion see the article Muhammad.

This is not a Muslim Wiki, where Muhammed will be called "Prophet Muhammed". Try to understand what this Wiki is. It is to be unbiased. You have a problem, go change Muhammaed to Prophet Muhammed in the Muhammad article. I am bringing up this issue on the Discussion page of Sharia. Good luck.--Matt57 22:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

NPOV please
§1. Though I would like to encourage you to continue your attempts to correctly state that cities and municipalities in Flanders are indeed part of that region, please be careful not to leave out the country as well. That is done for all cities in the world and Flanders is not a country. Precisely because some people would like it to be one, edits that pretend such desire to be a fact (regardless the text linked by 'Flanders' or 'Flemish Region') will read as a violation of WP:NPOV. §2a. You also created a sentence like "... in Flanders, one of the three communities and regions of Belgium", which is rather nonsense (the third community, German-speaking, has nothing to do with the third region, the Brussels Capital Region). §2b. Furthermore, a city or municipality is not in a community; just the inhabitants can be part of the latter. More importantly, communities have nothing to do with a geographical location, and that's what each city/municipality's intro sentence is supposed to point out. §3. Also replacing 'the Belgian coast' with 'the Flemish coast', is unacceptable while the next statement mentions the Dutch border. Especially for the English-language Wikipedia, the national borders are more important than those between regions, and in English one will not commonly speak about the 'Flemish coast'. Compare: I do not like the English referring to our language as 'Dutch', a word they use for Dutch people - as if it were their language and not just as much ours. But those things have historical causes that we as editors on Wikipedia have no right to present as if they were changed. We can fight misconceptions by presenting proper facts, but we cannot fight the language. §4. While you are at it, may I suggest trying to keep or create a rather consistent way of mentioning the location, e.g.:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.

 * X is a city and a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a city and a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.

 * X is a city and a municipality, and the capital of Y province in Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a city and a municipality, and the capital of Y province in Flanders, Belgium.

Note 1. In these sentences, one should go from the smallest (city) to the largest (country), never small/bigger/in between/biggest or so. Note 2. I assume it may be better to say 'a city and a municipality', than 'a city and municipality' because the two entities do not exactly coincide: the latter often comprises the city proper and several villages. Note 3. I suggest linking the word 'province' to 'Provinces of Belgium' (more useful and to-the-point than the article province and a link to the latter occurs on the first line of Provinces of Belgium anyway. (Something like that would not be proper for 'municipality' because the article is about that topic: the term may need to be explained, one does not wish to get a list.) An alternative might be to leave 'province' as province but give 'Belgium' the link Belgium (as Belgium is here clearly used in that meaning). In this sentence, the normal article Belgium may be irrelevant and if one would be interested anyway, the suggested link's article has as its first word Belgium. Note 4. E.g. 'Antwerp province' (just 'Antwerpen' would be the city, thus we speak about 'provincie Antwerpen') but 'the province of Limburg' (there is no city Limburg, Flemish people often refer to the province simply as 'Limburg'; it is not 'Belgian Limburg' as that is not its name, and the country will follow in these sentences anyway - mentioning it once is enough, I assume), but verify that the links for the provinces' names end up on the correct pages (e.g. Antwerp, Limburg ). Note 5. When looking up a city or municipality, one will not be looking for the constitutional nature of Flanders as a region. I think it is better to avoid the lengthier (and after seeing it three times: boring) style as now found in many articles, like:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, one of the three regions of Belgium.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, one of the three regions of Belgium.

— SomeHuman 8 Oct2006 23:41-23:59 (UTC)

 * I agree with this, and have done a few reverts introducing the name of the country. The correct way of saying is municipality, province, Flemish region, Belgium, or equivalent.
 * Wikipedia should be no place to propagate separatist political ideas. LHOON 06:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

 * About §1: My leaving out of Belgium was mainly in search of the most compact, precise and accurate description. Anywaone who then clicks on 'Belgium' will find out anything needed. Always leaving in the belgium reference appears therefore totally redundant.
 * About §2a: That's inded correct, the 3rd region has nothing t do with the 3rd community, but ... (see below).
 * About §2b: Thanks for your attention to this confusion. What is your proposal to also include the communities, This appears quite relevant given that the Flemish community is by far much more important then the Flemish region (the region has no parliament, nor governement of its own; it just ceded all its constitutional competentcies to the Fl.community).
 * About §3: OK, I can follow your reasoning. Now trying to find the most appropriate way of formulating things.
 * About §4, note 1: OK
 * About §4, note 2: Indeed
 * About §4, note 3: Wouw; i'm not sure I understood this one.
 * About §4, note 5: yes, indeed, we beter go for the shortest and most accurate description. one question: there are no 'belgian' provinces anymore since the last institutional changes!   The competency over the provinces also shifted to the Flemish and th Walloon region! So, maybe better indeed speak of province without anything else?
 * --Rudi Dierick 14:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I refactored my original comment by numbering the paragraphs so Rudi Dierick's will no longer feel compelled to insert reactions within a comment, thereby jumping ahead of Lhoon who had already reacted. For several reasons, it is not considered proper to insert comments inside a comment or between comments: newer comments always belong at the bottom of the relevant section, and may refer to paragraphs or to earlier comments when the need arises.
 * Though 'de Vlaamse regio' or 'Regio Vlaanderen' are proper for the region, the most commonly used name is simply 'Vlaanderen'. A longer name will rather be used when making clear distinction with the community, such as when stipulating which entity is legally authorized for a particular subject. But as Rudi Dierick pointed out, the distinction has become pointless as far as it concerns the part of the community that lives in the region: decisions for both are made by the same government and parliament. Thus for being short and for following most common usage, we should read 'Flanders' which, for accuracy (as here the geographical location is considered), must link straightforwardly to the region. Thus: [[Flemish Region|Flanders ]] (which, compared to the link in Lhoon's sentence, is the other way around - the article Flanders is a de facto disambiguation page that elaborates on the distinctions more than the formal disambiguation page Flanders (disambiguation)).
 * Now Rudi,
 * Your comment on §1 is not very convincing: one cannot click on 'Belgium' if the term is not there. One should not have to click on a name of a province (in fact one might then with a same argument leave out the region: the province mentions that) or a region to find out in which country a municipality is to be found. Wikipedia does not handle other countries' municipalities like that. As most readers have an idea about the continent in which a country lies, the buck stops there.
 * The community is not to be mentioned (unless further down in a municipality's article if it would be particularly relevant): this does not belong in each article of a municipality, that's a matter on a more general level.
 * Allow me to clarify my note 3. with samples for the most simple situation (not a city, not a capital of a province):
 * Option 1:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium
 * Option 2:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium
 * In both normally readable sentences, click on 'province'; then in both these sentences, click on 'Belgium'. Whichever of these styles you choose, do not make a mix of both. Once chosen, you should also stick to that choice for all municipalities.
 * The competence for the provinces is not particularly relevant here, the intro sentences simply give a geographical situation for the municipality, not a political one.
 * — SomeHuman 9 Oct2006 18:10 (UTC)

 * I largely agree, but would anyway prefer to use the official term Flemish region in this context, rather than just Flanders, as the first clearly denotes the geographical entity which is referred to in this context (where the municipalities are actually located), and also to avoid confusion with the provinces of East and West Flanders, which constitute the historical territory of Flanders. It is complicated indeed, and is somewhat of a challenge to explain the governmental intricacies of Belgium to the non-initiated. So I would prefer the following expression:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flemish Region, Belgium.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flemish Region, Belgium
 * Btw, the expression Vlaamse Regio or Regio Vlaanderen are never used, the correct expression in Dutch is Vlaams gewest. The word regio is used for a general geographical area and not for an administrative division (e.g. de regio Brussel means the large surroundings of Brussels, and not the Brussels gewest which is a clearly delimited entity).
 * LHOON 18:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, the terms with 'regio' are rather common as well and always coincide with the 'Vlaams Gewest', but you are certainly right about 'het Vlaams Gewest' (both terms capitalized) being the official expression besides 'Vlaanderen'. From the Dutch-language Wikipedia article nl:Vlaams Gewest: "Meestal wordt het Vlaams Gewest gewoon Vlaanderen genoemd". That is my argument to put it as 'Flanders', which is official as well (even verdicts by the Raad van State sometimes refer to it as 'in Vlaanderen'), and it's short. The articles are about the municipality, the sentence about its location; not about the political or constitutional situation(*): in this sentence, we do not need to emphasize 'Flemish Region' any more than the official name for Belgium: 'Kingdom of Belgium'. The sentence may read rather awkwardly either way: "... in the province of Flemish Brabant, Flemish Region, Belgium" seems less informative about the dual name than "... in the province of Flemish Brabant, Flanders, Belgium"; on the other hand "... in the province of East Flanders, Flanders, Belgium" suggests an identical Flanders while East Flanders is rather westward in the Flemish Region... but "... in the province of East Flanders, Flemish Region, Belgium" may not be less misleading.
 * There is also the fact that the English Wikipedia rules decided that the name "Flemish Region" requires "Region" to be capitalized and I find it rather unstylish to see 'province' and 'Region' in one sentence. I am afraid that people will start correcting 'province' towards 'Province' and some others will correct 'Region' towards 'region'. Thus it will ethernally take continuously watching and correcting or we will soon have three styles instead of one for the municipalities in Flanders. That too is a practical reason to put it as Flanders. Moreover, the way it must be linked, goes to the article named "Flemish Region", thus anyone who might be willing to find out what exactly is meant by 'Flanders' gets the proper answer immediately.
 * (*) About official use and the Constitution: "overwegende dat (...) meer bepaald het Vlaams Parlement de vrijheid heeft de benamingen Vlaamse Gemeenschap en Vlaams Gewest te vervangen door Vlaanderen omdat de naamswijziging geen wijzigingen teweegbrengt in de bepalingen van de Belgische Grondwet ; de naamswijziging de machten, noch de bevoegdheden verandert en evenmin afbreuk doet aan de door de Grondwet bepaalde interinstitutionele verhoudingen ; (...) beslist 1° om deze redenen de benaming "Vlaanderen" in plaats van "Vlaamse Gemeenschap" en "Vlaams Gewest" te gebruiken ; 2° te onderzoeken voor welke publiekrechtelijke en/of privaatrechtelijke rechtshandelingen en/of feitelijk gebruik, de naam "Vlaanderen" zal worden gebruikt ; 3° te onderzoeken of het niet noodzakelijk is dit te doen in samenwerking met de Vlaamse regering.", excerpt from a 'voorstel tot resolutie' (proposal for resolution) in 1996 in the Flemish Parliament. I'm unaware of its outcome, but it clearly demonstrates which name is the more common, and 'Flanders' not violating constitutional concerns.
 * — SomeHuman 9 Oct2006 21:14 (UTC)
 * I just spotted a mistake I had made in the last unwikied sample line of my §4 (it showed provinceProvinces of Belgium in which 'province' is pasted at the front instead of correctly at the rear). As I still suggest to use the §4 samples as the best choice, and since the unwikied lines can be copy/pasted directly (just appropriate names need to replace X and Y and 'Y province' or 'province of Y' will depend on the actual province), to avoid any errors - I deliberately violated normal procedure and corrected this in my original comment. — SomeHuman 9 Oct2006 21:53 (UTC)

 * The page 'Provinces of Belgium' was renamed (in Wiki-terminology 'moved to') 'Provinces of regions in Belgium' and pages other than on municipalities linking to it, became (or will very soon become) updated, just as the template (new title and note about the Brussels Capital Region not being (part of) or having a province. The template  redirects to the forementioned one. Text for the articles on provinces (and for some other articles), where needed, became updated for provinces being part of (just) two regions. Now of course, all above links to 'Provinces of Belgium' redirect to 'Provinces of regions in Belgium'.
 * Correction: A Wikipedia guideline had given and may still give the impression that the proper indication of the province named Antwerp, would be 'Antwerp province', mainly because (in Dutch and in English) one rarely talks about the province by its official name 'Antwerpen'/'Antwerp' alone, as this far more commonly refers to its capital city. Nevertheless, a few web searches in English language texts showed that 'the province of Antwerp' is significantly more common. Furthermore, a search for 'province' on the official web site of the province of Antwerp proved its very few texts in English to use 'province of Antwerp': or such with capital P ,. As the term 'province' is not part of the name, it should better not be capitalized; also its Wikipedia article is 'Antwerp (province)' and not 'Antwerp Province'. Since the only acceptable way to call any other province in Flanders a province, is as 'the province of Y', for a more consistent terminology (which is also a Wikipedia guideline), we should rather stick to 'the province of Antwerp' just as well. In our sentence, this renders 'province' as a link separated from the 'Antwerp' link; even if 'Antwerp province' gets two distinct links underneath, visually it appears as just one link and naturally withholds people from checking out the link under 'province'.
 * Conclusion: One should read my earlier §4 now as follows (I do not indent these lines, for easier reading):

§4. While you are at it, may I suggest trying to keep or create a consistent way of mentioning the location, e.g.:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.

 * X is a city and a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a city and a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium.

 * X is a city and a municipality, and the capital of the province of Y in Flanders, Belgium.
 * X is a city and a municipality, and the capital of the province of Y in Flanders, Belgium.
 * Rudi, I hope this will simplify the task that you had (for 10 municipalities) started a few days ago.
 * — SomeHuman 10 Oct2006 23:43 (UTC)

Should we then, if the cuntry as a higher governing level is to be included, also mention the European Union. AS self-centered Euopeans, we might overlook this, but for people from far away, this might make much sense to me. And it would be more coherent. Secondly, given that the region has such a limited ignificance, it looks to me that the general language may be 'Flanders', where the link could then refer to the Flemish region. Moreover, the provinces do not directly 'belong' to Belgium as such anymore as these have been transferred also to the regions. they thus 'belong' to Belgium in a similar way as they belong to the European Union: indirectly! Thus, taking into account all this, we maybe better use following conventions:
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium, European Union.
 * X is a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium, European Union.

 * X is a city and a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium, European Union.
 * X is a city and a municipality in the province of Y, Flanders, Belgium, European Union.

 * X is a city and a municipality, and the capital of the province of Y in Flanders, Belgium, European Union.
 * X is a city and a municipality, and the capital of the province of Y in Flanders, Belgium, European Union.

Given this, and (seems to have been saved before finishing the comment, thus unsigned — above comment by Rudi Dierick 12 Oct2006 11:39 (UTC)

 * and what? This comment seems unfinished, but nevertheless the following: I don't think mentioning the EU is relevant here, as this is not done with municipalities in other EU countries either. Furthermore, I prefer to maintain the province link to the page Provinces of regions in Belgium, rather than making a separate page for the provinces of the Flemish region. The page covering the whole of Belgium is very clear on the matter, and much more comprehensive for foreign users. LHOON 12:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Fully agree with Lhoon on this. I had already mentioned Europe. Before they follow a link to a municipality, most readers will be aware of Belgium's location (though not necessarily where in Europe and that would not be easy to put in the intro phrases). The linked article on Belgium should take care of such.
 * I had been considering the logical split of provinces, and this could create two shorter titles. By the way, in that case the title for the Flemish Region would be 'Provinces of the Flemish Region' ('Provinces of Flanders' could be too ambiguous) and not Rudi's typo-suggestion (red links) 'Provinces of regions in Flanders'  ;-D   But provinces have their own articles. And as a whole they have a history as well: they used to be Belgian, one became split across both regions, the Brussels-Capital Region is an enclave encompassed by province of another region... Therefore the provinces should stay in one synoptic article unless at one time the content would become so terribly long that splitting for the two regions and a 'History on provinces in Belgium' would prove necessary. We're still way off now, and it does not seem likely for the future – especially since the importance of provinces is perceived so that already a few proposals were made to abolish them altogether... — SomeHuman 13 Oct2006 01:14 (UTC)
 * given my quite well known pesonal positions in favour of Flanders and the European Union and in favor for a more mdest role for the belgian level (that certainly must be preserved), I very well know that my POV is a partisan one. therefore, I can only invite ALL contributors to leave aside also their Personal POV, and try to contribute all to an as neutral, accurate and up-to-date description of things. Having said that, I can only attract your attention to the following objective facts that, according to me, should influence how the objective reality s described:
 * Most people don't care a shit for the fine print of the institutionl differences between Flmish community and Flemish region. they just refer to 'Flanders'.
 * Also 99% of journalists, social scientists, and external observers completely leave those details out of any general description. For them, that's good for specialised articles in institutions, not fr geneal aricles and general descriptions.
 * As good as all representative politicians in flanders do the same thing. Moreover, there is just one 'political community', being a clearly identified ethnic group of people that have thei political parties, media, universities, ... bing th Flemish 'nation' (term used to avoid confusion with a political insitution).
 * Blgium has no competency anymre for municipalities, nor provinces!
 * Given all this, it appears a highly partisan political point of to try to still describe things in flanders primarily in a Belgian perspective and then to neglect the actual, relevant level 'Flanders' in order to confuse general readers with an institution that has so few meaning. Your insistence to still privileges the Belgian level of describing an actual reality that became both much more Flemish and much more European then just that Blgian nationalistic nation-state from the 19th century is thus far to partisan, to inaccurate and not informative enough to be kept.  --Rudi Dierick 11:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm Flemish, I'm a European, but firstly I'm a Mechlinian. Should I in each municipality then put its distance from Mechelen? I'm also a Belgian citizen and – like it or not – that country is the major location that people ask me about once I leave the shadow of the St. Rumbolds Tower for more than a Sunday tour. And one of the reasons why I prefer 'Flanders', as you seem to agree upon, instead of 'Flemish Region' for situating any particular municipality. But as I stated before, even for an international English-language Wikipedia, most people that end up reading any article on a municipality in Belgium, will know that Belgium is in Europe and, as it was a founding country which encompasses the EC capital, that it belongs to the European Community – the latter is irrelevant for a sentence that simply locates a municipality. Thus I wrote (it seems long ago) "As most readers have an idea about the continent in which a country lies, the buck stops there" – that is at ...", Flanders, Belgium." — SomeHuman 13 Oct2006 19:33 (UTC)

Flemish emancipation movement
I've added the "prod" template to the article Flemish emancipation movement, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Flemish emancipation movement. Removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, but the article may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. Tocharianne 20:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Yusuf Qaradawi
Your recent insertion into the article has not been particularly helpful. It mentions controversy over his positions, but there is no source proving such a controversy exists. You simply cited opinions from his own website and declared them on your own to be controversial, and this is in violation of the official No original research policy.

Look man, I know the guy is controversial. A lot of the stuff he says is shocking, prejudiced, and boneheaded. But you can't just post his statements up and declare them controversial, because that's just your own opinion. It's not like it's hard to find criticism of him from a democratic perspective, you could probably find enough just google searching for five minutes. MezzoMezzo (talk) 15:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Dear, according to Wikipedia rules, everyone has the right to mention literal statements and sources. The sources from the statements I mentionned were ALL included. The criticism is mine. And I'm really surprised that you refuse me the right to publish these. Could you explain which Wikipedia-rule you think I might not have respected?
 * So, let's be clear: if you obkject against my opinion, or --Rudi Dierick (talk) 15:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I never disputed your right to mention "literal statements" so please don't put words in my mouth. As for your right to publish your opinion, where do you get that from?  The opening line of the official No original research policy clearly states that: "Wikipedia does not publish original research or original thought."  It goes on to say that: "This means that Wikipedia is not the place to publish your opinions, experiences, or arguments."  The official WP:NOT, WP:SOAP, and WP:NOT policies are relevant here as well.

 * I don't disagree with your position per se. Personally, I think Qaradawi is a dangerous man and a big cause of extremism in the Middle East.  But we have to follow the rules on this site, and your own criticism is not relevant to articles on here and neither is mine. MezzoMezzo (talk) 16:18, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * in that case, shouldn't you limit your curring away to my opinion, and leave the statements in place? --Rudi Dierick (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not! Didn't you read any of the policies I just posted to you?  This is NOT the place for anybody's personal opinions or criticism, and putting up his statements with the header that they caused controversy without any second hand sources calling them controversial IS your opinion.

 * Bottom line is, just posting up his statements on their own is OR and will not be allowed. Period.  You and I both know there is criticism available out there, go search for it properly, write up a proper paragraph and not the big copy paste mess you've been touting, and show it on the talk pages so you, I, and others concerned may reach consensus on it. MezzoMezzo (talk) 17:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:Rudi Dierick


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User talk:Jeff8765

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Fuqua Continued...
Hey, Jeff! Long time, no see! Glad to see a fellow Fuqua Wikipedian! Radio-x 21:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Fuquaschool.jpg
Thank you for uploading Image:Fuquaschool.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. User:Gay Cdn (talk) (Contr) 01:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Crash_Bandicoot.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Crash_Bandicoot.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about bringing COTW back?
Hi Jeff8765,

I noticed that you were engaged in collaboration of the week (COTW) events a long time ago. Looks like the cost of coordinating to select articles to focus on might be a main reason to make COTW stop (maybe there were more), though COTW seemed pretty effective in engaging project members working together. I am thinking to create a tool to help recommend articles to WikiProjects. Just wonder what do you think about it? Thank you! Bobo.03 (talk) 18:34, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Jeff8765


text:
St. Marys River (Maryland)

The St. Marys River (sometimes spelled St. Mary's River) is a 22.3 mi river in southern Maryland in the United States. It rises in southern St. Mary's County, and flows to the southeast through Great Mills, widening into a tidal estuary near St. Mary's City, approximately 2 mi wide at its mouth on the north bank of the Potomac River, near the Chesapeake Bay to the east.

title: St. Marys River (Maryland)


text:
Talk:Drug paraphernalia

Source dont mention this
"The American drug paraphernalia laws can also apply to many items that have more legitimate uses than for illegal drugs. Small mirrors and other glass products (such as Pyrex test tubes and "glass crack pipes"), lighters, rolled up currency, razor blades, aluminum/tin foil, credit cards, and spoons have all been used to prosecute people under paraphernalia laws, whether or not they contain residue of illegal drugs.[1]"

The cited source doesn't mention anything about this at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.198.115.152 (talk) 07:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Tommy Chong
The statement about Tommy Chong is misleading. He merely lent his name to a company for use on water pipes they were producing. Not he himself. Of everyone arrested in relation to the sting, Tommy Chong was the only one who spent time in jail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.177.214 (talk) 08:44, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Light bulbs
light bulbs? How in the world would you use a light bulb to smoke with?

Watch "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas"

in general, a freebase compound in placed on the bulb, which heats the compound past its vaporization temperature, producing alkyloid smoke.

A lightbulb can be converted to a crude vaporizer, which can be used to vaporize/partially pyrolize many substances, among them amphetamines, base cocaine, and cannabis. HoldtheMayo 03:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly where did you get the picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.222.231 (talk) 04:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Legitimate Product?
If a product was legitimate then would it necessarily be "paraphenalia"? Also, the tobacco pipe exemption really depends on what jurisdiction you are in.

Lame Entry Alert

Almost the entire text of this PARAPHERNALIA article is a reprint of a DEA fact-sheet.

Drug (i.e. nicotine) enforcement

 * The DEA can be understood to reflect the desires of the U.S. tobacco industry, which enables the U. S. government to collect over $US30 billion per year in tobacco taxes paid by the 45,000,000 addicted slave customers. (Most other nations, such as Pakistan, are similarly "addicted" to tobacco tax revenues.)

 * The term DRUG is a slander against cannabis which, used in a rational way, is a safe, serviceable herb comparable to basil, marjoram, oregano, rosemary, sage (Salvia), savory and thyme.

 * The term PARAPHERNALIA (paranoia + infernal + alien, get it?) is a slander directed at any alternative smoking method instead of the hot-burning overdose nicotine cigaret format (700 mg. every time you want a "smoke") upon which the tobacco industry profit margin is based.

 * The laws against marijuana are designed to protect the tobacco industry by delaying the popularization of "paraphernalia"-- i.e. its worst nightmare is that

 * With the legalization of cannabis the rational, conservative practice of using a vaporizer-- or, failing the money, a one-hitter or minitoke utensil will be legalized, on its coattails so to speak, and be adopted by masses of hotburning-overdose slave nicotine cigaret addicts thus exterminating the industry profit margin. A quarter-inch-diameter crater with a screen in it can permit twenty-eight separate 25-mg. servings from one typical commercial 700 mg. overdose cigaret.

 * Many cannabis users, fearing arrest and prosecution if caught in possession of "paraphernalia", settle for wasteful hot-burning "joints" and "blunts" which are easier to hide and dispose of. (Would you want your $600 Volcano vaporizer confiscated?)  Hot-burning-overdose methods of smoking cannabis produce health damage which can be conveniently attributed to the cannabis, thus supporting the argument for repressive laws.  They also precondition youthful smokers to the overdose smoking systems favored by the tobacco industry.

 * The "tobacco pipe exemption" viewed in the above context is self-explanatory. It also guarantees overdose, in that a typical tobacco pipe accommodates up to two (2) grams of herb, i.e. a youngster using cannabis, sucking hard enough to inhale all the smoke, would burn the herb hot enough to destroy most of the THC, and suffer health damage ignorantly and/or maliciously attributed to the cannabis.

 * Mixing cannabis with tobacco (as in "blunts", widely used by youngsters concealing their cannabis in a cigar-skin) can expedite profitable nicotine addictions.

 * The U.S. government, obeying its Big Tobackgo sponsor, bullies other nations through threats and coercion (economic sanctions) into following its line on cannabis prohibition and demonizing "paraphernalia" on grounds of association with cannabis (most recently Jamaica).Tokerdesigner (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Neutral?
The article is VERY USA oriented, and is obviously anti-paraphernalia. - this article is almost completely lifted from DEA website, thus the bias. User:thechosenone021

The "Counter-point" section of this article is extremely opinionated against international rules regarding drug paraphernalia. I suggest that it be edited to be more objective.

The counter-point section of the article was as opinionated as the half of the entry it was meant to oppose.

This article is way too biased for displaying on wikipedia. Immidiate remake should occur.

I added the NPOV flag. Reason: Article is politically biased ("Political bias, including bias in favor of or against a particular political party, policy or candidate.", Neutral_point_of_view). The following sentence makes this clear: "Today, law enforcement faces another challenge. With the advent of the Internet, criminals have greatly expanded their illicit sales to a worldwide market for drug paraphernalia.". Also, as the anonymous commenter above noted, extremely USA-oriented. Almost everywhere else, paraphernalia may be sold freely. Balou 22:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the "sale of paraphernalia" section, businesses that sell paraphernalia in-store or online are referred to as illicit. Most of these businesses are in fact quite legitimate, and have lawyers on staff to ensure that. Silverring06 16:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

worldwide instead of POV
If the issue is that the point of view is not held by all countries, the worldwide tag is better than NPOV. Rares 22:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Mass removal of unreferenced content
Re this edit, was any attempt made to first see if it CAN be sourced? It didn't seem to be controversial or likely to be challenged as WP:V says.. I think a simple unreferenced or OR tag would've been a better option if one is unwilling to look for sources, rather than delete useful content. -- œ ™ 23:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, according to WP:Verifiability any unreferenced material can be challenged and removed though it is preferred to be tagged.
 * This article has been tagged for a while so I think it was just about the so called "mass removal of content" Aaron mcd (talk) 02:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

seriously ?
"Small mirrors and other glass products, lighters, rolled up currency, razor blades, aluminum/tin foil, credit cards, and spoons have all been used to prosecute people under paraphernalia laws, whether or not they contain residue of illegal drugs." My god ...americans have the most stupid laws —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.62.135.34 (talk) 13:45, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Law in LA
Is sale of such paraphernalia legal in LA? Looks like it from some videos I have been watching, but I'd prefer a decent source. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:00, 25 September 2019 (UTC).

title: Talk:Drug paraphernalia


text:
Offshoring

Offshoring is the relocation of a business process from one country to another—typically an operational process, such as manufacturing, or supporting processes, such as accounting. Usually this refers to a company business, although state governments may also employ offshoring. More recently, technical and administrative services have been offshored.

Offshoring neither implies nor precludes involving a different company to be responsible for a business process. Therefore, offshoring should not be confused with outsourcing which does imply one company relying on another. In practice, the concepts can be intertwined, i.e offshore outsourcing, and can be individually or jointly, partially or completely reversed, as described by terms such as reshoring, inshoring, and insourcing.

In-house offshoring is when the offshored work is done by means of an internal (captive) delivery model.

Imported services from subsidiaries or other closely related suppliers are included, whereas intermediate goods, such as partially completed cars or computers, may not be.

Motivation
Lower cost and increased profitability are often the motivation for offshoring. Economists call this labor arbitrage. More recently, offshoring incentives also include access to qualified personnel abroad, in particular in technical professions, and decreasing the time to market.

Jobs are added in the destination country providing the goods or services and are subtracted from the higher-cost labor country. The increased safety net costs of the unemployed may be absorbed by the government (taxpayers) in the high-cost country or by the company doing the offshoring. Europe experienced less offshoring than the United States due to policies that applied more costs to corporations and cultural barriers.

Criteria
Some criteria for a job to be offshore-able are:

 * There is a significant wage difference between the original and offshore countries

 * Remote work is possible in the job

 * The work can be transmitted over the Internet

 * The work is repeatable

Offshore outsourcing
Subcontracting in the same country would be outsourcing, but not offshoring. A company moving an internal business unit from one country to another would be offshoring or physical restructuring, but not outsourcing. A company subcontracting a business unit to a different company in another country would be both outsourcing and offshoring, offshore outsourcing.

Types of offshore outsourcing include:

 * Information technology outsourcing (ITO) is where outsourcing is related to technology or the internet, such as computer programming.

 * Business process outsourcing (BPO) involves contracting out operational functions to a third-party service provider.

 * Offshore Software development

 * Knowledge Process Outsourcing (KPO) is a type of outsourcing that involves or requires more advanced technical skills and a higher level of expertise.

 * Customer Support Outsourcing (CSO) involves delegating customer service functions to offshore call centres or service providers to handle inquiries, complaints, and assistance.

 * Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) is a workforce solution in which a business transfers all or part of its recruitment to an external provider. Businesses can deliver a standalone service or the entire operations.

Nearshoring
Nearshoring is a form of offshoring in which the other country is relatively close such as one sharing a border.

Being nearby results in potentially beneficial commonalities such as temporal (time zone), cultural, social, linguistic, economic, political, or historical linkages.

According to the 1913 New York Times article "Near Source of Supplies the Best Policy", the main focus was then on "cost of production." Although transportation cost was addressed, they did not choose among:
 * transporting supplies to place of production
 * transporting finished goods to place(s) of sale
 * cost and availability of labor

The term nearshoring derives from offshoring. When combined with outsourcing, nearshore outsourcing, the nearshore workers are not employees of the company for which the work is performed.

Nearshoring can involve business strategy to locate operations close to where product is sold. This is contrasted with using low-wage manufacturing operations in developing nations and shipping product back to the country that offshored the work.

With nearshore outsourcing, the work is done by an outside company rather than internally, but in contrast to typical offshore outsourcing, the work is done in fairly close proximity to the company headquarters and its target market.

Nearshoring is often used for information technology (IT) processes such as application development, maintenance and testing.

In Europe, nearshore outsourcing relationships are between clients in larger European economies and various providers in smaller European nations. The attraction is lower-cost skilled labor forces, and a less stringent regulatory environment, but crucially they allow for more day to day physical oversight. These countries also have strong cultural ties to the major economic centers in Europe as they are part of EU. For example, as of 2020 Portugal is considered to be the most trending outsourcing destination as big companies like Mercedes, Google, Jaguar, Sky News, Natixis and BNP Paribas opening development centers in Lisbon and Porto, where labor costs are lower, talent comes from excellent Universities, there's availability of skills and the time zone is GMT (the same as London).

US clients nearshore to countries such as Canada, Mexico and nations in Central and South America.

Culture
Cultural alignment with the business is often more readily achieved through near-sourcing due to there being similarities between the cultures in which the business is located and in which services are sub-contracted, including for example proficiency with the language used in that culture.

Communication
Constraints imposed by time zones can complicate communication; near-sourcing or nearshoring offers a solution. English language skills are the cornerstone of Nearshore and IT services. Collaboration by universities, industry, and government has slowly produced improvements. Proximity also facilitates in-person interaction regularly and/or when required.

Other advantages
Software development nearshoring is mainly due to flexibility when it comes to upscale or downscale teams or availability of low cost skilled developers. The nearshoring of call centers, shared services centers, and business process outsourcing (BPO) rose as offshore outsourcing was seen to be relatively less valuable. More recently, companies have explored nearshoring as a risk mitigation strategy for operational and supply chain weaknesses uncovered during the COVID-19 global pandemic crisis, when offshore BPOs experienced sudden closures and disruptive quarantine restrictions which hampered their ability to conduct day-to-day business operations.

The complexities of offshoring stem from language and cultural differences, travel distances, workday/time zone mismatches, and greater effort for needed for establishing trust and long-term relationships. Many nearshore providers attempted to circumvent communication and project management barriers by developing new ways to align organizations. As a result, concepts such as remote insourcing were created to give clients more control in managing their own projects. Nearshoring still has not overcome all barriers, but proximity allows more flexibility to align organizations.

Production offshoring
Production offshoring, also known as physical restructuring, of established products involves relocation of physical manufacturing processes overseas, usually to a lower-cost destination or one with fewer regulatory restrictions.

Physical restructuring arrived when the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) made it easier for manufacturers to shift production facilities from the US to Mexico.

This trend later shifted to China, which offered cheap prices through very low wage rates, few workers' rights laws, a fixed currency pegged to the US dollar, (currently fixed to a basket of economies) cheap loans, cheap land, and factories for new companies, few environmental regulations, and huge economies of scale based on cities with populations over a million workers dedicated to producing a single kind of product. However, many companies are reluctant to move high value-added production of leading-edge products to China because of lax enforcement of intellectual property laws.

IT-enabled services offshoring
Growth of offshoring has been linked to the availability of reliable and affordable communication infrastructure following the telecommunication and internet expansion of the late 1990s.

Much of the job movement was to outside companies, offshore outsourcing.

Re-shoring
Reshoring, also known as onshoring, backshoring or inshoring, is the act of reversing an offshoring change; moving a business process that was offshored, back to the original country.

John Urry, professor of sociology at Lancaster University, argues that the concealment of income, the avoidance of taxation and eluding legislation relating to work, finance, pleasure, waste, energy and security may be becoming a serious concern for democratic governments and ordinary citizens who may be adversely affected by unregulated, offshore activities. Further, the rising costs of transportation could lead to production nearer the point of consumption becoming more economically viable, particularly as new technologies such as additive manufacturing mature.

The World Bank's 2019 World Development Report on the future of work considers the potential for automation to drive companies to reshore production, reducing the role of labor in the process, and offers suggestions as to how governments can respond. A similar movement can be seen related to Robotic Process Automation, called RPA or RPAAI for self-guided RPA 2.0 based on artificial intelligence, where the incentive to move repetitive shared services work to lower cost countries is partially taken away by the progression of technology.

Melanie Rojas et al in a 2022 Deloitte's report commend adopting a combination of re-shoring and friendshoring - "working with other nations and trusted supply sources" - as a business practice and policy initiative aiming to promote supply chain resilience.

Destinations
After its accession to the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, the People's Republic of China emerged as a prominent destination for production offshoring. Another focus area has been the software industry as part of global software development and developing global information systems. After technical progress in telecommunications improved the possibilities of trade in services, India became one prominent destination for such offshoring, though many parts of the world are now emerging as offshore destinations.

United States
Since the 1980s American companies have been "offshoring" and outsourcing manufacturing to low cost countries such as India, China, Malaysia, Pakistan and Vietnam.

Government response
President Obama's 2011 SelectUSA program was the first federal program to promote and facilitate U.S. investment in partnership with the states. This program and website helps companies connect with resources available on a Federal, State and local level. In January 2012, President Obama issued a call to action to "invest in America" at the White House "Insourcing American Jobs" Forum.

Success stories
Advances in 3D printing technologies brought manufacturers closer to their customers.

There have been several very successful stories of companies. In most cases hundreds if not thousands of jobs were created or reinstated. In the case of Starbucks, in 2012 it saved American Mug and Stein Company in East Liverpool, Ohio from bankruptcy.

Avoiding failure
Some cases of reshoring have not been successful. Otis Elevators' reshoring effort did not go well. Otis says it failed to consider the consequences of the new location and tried to do too much at once, including a supply-chain software implementation. This is not an uncommon reshoring scenario. Bringing manufacturing back to the United States isn't so simple, and there are a lot of considerations and analyses that companies must do to determine the costs and feasibility of reshoring. Some companies pursue reshoring with their own internal staff. But reshoring projects are complicated and involve engineering, marketing, production, finance, and procurement. In addition, there are real estate concerns, government incentives and training requirements that require outreach to the community. To help with these projects, companies often turn to consultants that specialize in reshoring.

United Kingdom
In the United Kingdom, companies have used the reintroduction of domestic call centres as a unique selling point. In 2014, the RSA Insurance Group completed a move of call centres back to Britain. The call centre industry in India has been hit by reshoring, as businesses including British Telecom, Santander UK and Aviva all announced they would move operations back to Britain in order to boost the economy and regain customer satisfaction.

R&D offshoring
Product design, research and the development (R&D) process is relatively difficult to offshore because R&D, to improve products and create new reference designs, requires a higher skill set not associated with cheap labor.

Transfer of intellectual property
There is a relationship between offshoring and patent-system strength. Companies under a strong patent system are not afraid to move work offshore because their work will remain their property. Conversely, companies in countries with weak patent systems have an increased fear of intellectual property theft from foreign vendors or workers, and, therefore, have less offshoring.

Offshoring is often enabled by the transfer of valuable information to the offshore site. Such information and training enables the remote workers to produce results of comparable value previously produced by internal employees. When such transfer includes protected materials, as confidential documents and trade secrets, protected by non-disclosure agreements, then intellectual property has been transferred or exported. The documentation and valuation of such exports is quite difficult, but should be considered since it comprises items that may be regulated or taxable.

Debate
Offshoring to foreign subsidiaries has been a controversial issue spurring heated debates among economists. Jobs go to the destination country and lower cost of goods and services to the origin country.

On the other hand, job losses and wage erosion in developed countries have sparked opposition. Free trade with low-wage countries is win-lose for many employees who find their jobs offshored or with stagnating wages.

Currency manipulation by governments and their central banks cause differences in labor cost. On May 1, 2002, Economist and former Ambassador Ernest H. Preeg testified before the Senate committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs that China, for instance, pegs its currency to the dollar at a sub-par value in violation of Article IV of the International Monetary Fund Articles of Agreement which state that no nation shall manipulate its currency to gain a market advantage.

Source of conflict
The opposing sides regarding offshoring, outsourcing, and offshore outsourcing are those seeking government intervention and Protectionism versus the side advocating Free Trade.

Jobs formerly held by U.S. workers have been lost, even as underdeveloped countries such as Brazil and Turkey flourish. Free-trade advocates suggest economies as a whole will obtain a net benefit from labor offshoring, but it is unclear if the displaced receive a net benefit.

Some wages overseas are rising. A study by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics found that Chinese wages were almost tripled in the seven years following 2002. Research suggests that these wage increases could redirect some offshoring elsewhere.

Increased training and education has been advocated to offset trade-related displacements, but it is no longer a comparative advantage of high-wage nations because education costs are lower in low-wage countries.

U.S. labor market
In 2015, IT employment in the United States has recently reached pre-2001 levels and has been rising since.

The number of jobs lost to offshoring is less than 1 percent of the total US labor market. According to a study by the Heritage foundation, outsourcing represents a very small proportion of jobs lost in the US. The total number of jobs lost to offshoring, both manufacturing and technical represent only 4 percent of the total jobs lost in the US. Major reasons for cutting jobs are from contract completion and downsizing. Some economists and commentators claim that the offshoring phenomenon is way overblown.

Impact on jobs in western countries
The Economist reported in January 2013 that "High levels of unemployment in Western countries after the 2007-2008 financial crisis have made the public in many countries so hostile towards offshoring that many companies are now reluctant to engage in it." Economist Paul Krugman wrote in 2007 that while free trade among high-wage countries is viewed as win-win, free trade with low-wage countries is win-lose for many employees who find their jobs offshored or with stagnating wages.

Two estimates of the impact of offshoring on U.S. jobs were between 150,000 and 300,000 per year from 2004 to 2015. This represents 10-15% of U.S. job creation.

The increased safety net costs of the unemployed may be absorbed by the government (taxpayers) in the high-cost country or by the company doing the offshoring. Europe experienced less offshoring than the U.S. due to policies that applied more costs to corporations and cultural barriers.

In the area of service research has found that offshoring has mixed effects on wages and employment.

The World Bank's 2019 World Development Report on the future of work highlights how offshoring can shape the demand for skills in receiving countries and explores how increasing automation can lead to reshoring of production in some cases.

Public opinion
U.S. opinion polls indicate that between 76-95% of Americans surveyed agreed that "outsourcing of production and manufacturing work to foreign countries is a reason the U.S. economy is struggling and more people aren't being hired."

Effects of factor of production mobility
According to classical economics, the three factors of production are land, labor, and capital. Offshoring relies heavily on the mobility of labor and capital; land has little or no mobility potential.

In microeconomics, working capital funds the initial costs of offshoring. If the state heavily regulates how a corporation can spend its working capital, it will not be able to offshore its operations. For the same reason the macroeconomy must be free for offshoring to succeed.

Computers and the Internet made work in the services industry electronically portable. Most theories that argue offshoring eventually benefits domestic workers assume that those workers will be able to obtain new jobs, even if by accepting lower salaries or by retraining themselves in a new field. Foreign workers benefit from new jobs and higher wages when the work moves to them.

Labor scholars argue that global labor arbitrage leads to unethical practices, connected to exploitation of workers, eroding work conditions and decreasing job security.

History
In the developed world, moving manufacturing jobs out of the country dates to at least the 1960s while moving knowledge service jobs offshore dates to the 1970s and has continued since then. It was characterized primarily by the transferring of factories from the developed to the developing world. This offshoring and closing of factories has caused a structural change in the developed world from an industrial to a post-industrial service society.

During the 20th century, the decreasing costs of transportation and communication combined with great disparities on pay rates made increased offshoring from wealthier countries to less wealthy countries financially feasible for many companies. Further, the growth of the Internet, particularly fiber-optic intercontinental long haul capacity, and the World Wide Web reduced "transportation" costs for many kinds of information work to near zero.

Impact of the Internet
Regardless of size, companies benefit from accessibility to labor resources across the world. This gave rise to business models such as Remote In-Sourcing that allow companies to tap into resources found abroad, without losing control over security of product quality.

New categories of work such as call centres, computer programming, reading medical data such as X-rays and magnetic resonance imaging, medical transcription, income tax preparation, and title searching are being offshored.

Ireland
Before the 1990s, Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the EU. Because of Ireland's relatively low corporate tax rates, US companies began offshoring of software, electronic, and pharmaceutical intellectual property to Ireland for export. This helped create a high-tech "boom" which led to Ireland becoming one of the richest EU countries.

NAFTA
In 1994 the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) went into effect, and it increased the velocity of physical restructuring.

The plan to create free trade areas (such as Free Trade Area of the Americas) has not yet been successful. In 2005, offshoring of skilled work, also referred to as knowledge work, dramatically increased from the US, which fed the growing worries about threats of job loss.

Related

 * Inshoring picking services in the same country

 * Bestshoring or rightshoring picking the best country for offshoring

 * Business process outsourcing (BPO) outsourcing arrangements when entire business functions (such as finance, accounting, and customer service) are outsourced. More specific terms can be found in the field of software development - for example Global Information System as a class of systems being developed for / by globally distributed teams.

 * Bodyshopping practice of using offshored resources and personnel to do small disaggregated tasks within a business environment, without any broader intention to offshore an entire business function.

title: Offshoring


text:
Talk:Tetum language

Karreta
Karreta is actually not only a Malay (Indonesian) loanword (kereta) but also a Portuguese loanword; carreta, "chariot".

Meursault2004 23:42, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

As I understand it, Indonesian uses the term mobil for car, whereas in Bahasa Malaysia (Malay) it is kereta. Although carreta is not often used in Portuguese, this does explain how the word came into use in East Timor.

 * "Kereta" can mean any wheeled vehicle in Malaysian and other dialects of Malay but now normally means "car". In current Indonesian "kereta" has come to be solely used as an abbreviation of "kereta api" or "keretapi" ("fire wagon") = train.  Tetum probably picked it up well before the current Indonesian word became standard.

Noun <--> Adjective

 * To turn a noun into an adjective, the word oan is added:
 * Malae - foreign
 * Malae oan - foreigner

if the text is correct, it should be the other way round Schuetzm 17:30, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * That's right. The examples were switched. To check, notice some of the other examples, such as:

 * Timoroan la'ós Indonézia-oan.
 * "The Timorese are not Indonesians."'' FilipeS 17:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Malay for "we"
As in Malay, Tetum has two forms of 'we': ami (equivalent to Malay 'kami') which is exclusive (eg: 'just the two of us'), and ita (equivalent to Malay 'kami'), which is inclusive (eg: 'all of us').'' in both cases "equivalent to Malay 'kami'"?! Schuetzm 17:30, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Agree with Schuetzm, that both the examples sited correspond to the inclusive we. The difference between the Malay kami and kita is whether or not the individuals included can be enumerated ('Just the two of us' vs 'All of us'), but whether or not the 'we' includes the person being spoken to: kita includes the addessee, kami excludes him/her. Enumerability is a feature of plural pronouns in some SE Asian languages, for instance, Tagalog, but not Malay.

If the Tetum ami and ita are derived from Malay, then their meanings are likely to be as above. This does seem more likely than the distinctive feature being enumeration. --Sepenidur 12:02, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree. The text makes it sound like ami is dual and ita is plural. If it's really an inclusive/exclusive difference, then ita should mean 'you and I and perhaps others as well' while ami should mean 'other people and I but not you'. --Angr 08:50, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia in Tetum
We are looking for speakers of Tetum (ideally, native speakers) that may cooperate in the launching of a Tetum version of the Wikipedia. Visit the test page of the Tetum Wikipedia and support this project (click in Tetum). Regards --82.102.25.163 01:24, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Manuel de Sousa

Images and "correct"pronuciation
The images are nice, but the first one says that people in Tetum "wrongly" pronounce meja instead of mesa, etc. So the picture seems to be about "teaching Portuguese" rather than "teaching Tetum". (Obviously, the "correct" pronunciation of "table" in tetum is the way that Tetum speakers pronounce it!) In that case, the pictures should be fixed if possible, otherwise it seems best to remove them. Cheers, Jorge Stolfi 23:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

 * seconded. The other one is also about common mispronunciations for locals...Rigadoun 22:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The pictures seem indeed to be about the pronunciation of Portuguese (not Tetum). However, they are interesting, for being bilingual. FilipeS 20:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I think they are confusing, and they look rather silly out of context. I'll remove them. If someone would wish to reinclude them, please at least add proper context. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 09:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Had to add proper contest, myself... 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 22:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I've changed the caption a little, to explain better what's in the picture. I've also deleted the translation, which seems pointless in this article. The interest of the pictures is that they contain a few samples of Tetum. FilipeS 19:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I understand that point, but in that case, I think it would be sufficient with some written samples, rather than images. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 21:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Contact language?
Tetum isn't really a contact language, is it? That link goes to pidgin, and my understanding was that Tetum was influenced by foreign languages, but not completely changed in grammar in the way one would expect from a pidgin. I don't think the more or less intelligible Tetum-Terik were not this creolized. Lingua franca or koine would be a more appropriate description, wouldn't it?Rigadoun 22:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Dr. Geoffrey Hull, from the Timorese National Institute of Linguistics, calls it a "contact language":

 * "In the fifteenth century, before the arrival of the Portuguese, Tetum spread through central and eastern Timor as a contact language under the aegis of the Belunese-speaking Kingdom of Wehali, at that time the most powerful kingdom on the island." FilipeS 20:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The guys at SIL International (Ethnologue) consider it (Tetum Praca-Dili) to be a creole based on Tetum (Tenrik). Here it's considered a dialect, what's going on?Domsta333 (talk) 12:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I would recommend using the term lingua franca to refer to Tetum Prasa, noting that in Timor-Leste people usually refer to Tetum Prasa just simply as "Tetum," which can be confusing given the parallel existence of the less creolized version of Tetum Terik, which is still spoken in many areas in the south of the country, particularly around Viqueque.HartmannSE (talk) 13:02, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

"Comparatively simple"
I'm removing the following from the article:
 * Grammar in Tetum is comparatively simple.

Comparatively simple, compared to what? The fact of the matter is that the current version of the article does not tell us much about the grammar of Tetum. No wonder it seems simple. And in case this is the argument on which the remark was based:
 * There are no genders or verb conjugations. There is no definite article, so fetu can be translated as "woman" or "the woman", depending on the context. There is no verb "to be" as such, etc.

The same sort of thing could be said of languages like Chinese or Japanese, but I think everybody would think twice before describing either of them as "comparatively simple". FilipeS 19:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've heard Chinese grammar being described as "simple". Otherwise, I don't completely understand what "There is no verb "to be" " would refer to. (Copula? Existential verb? Verb conjugation?) Both Chinese and Japanese have verbs corresponding to "to be", anyway... 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 09:55, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * On the other hand. I could give Russian as an example. It does lack a definite/indefinite article, and the verb "to be" is generally omitted in present tense. However, the example isn't that good, since "it/there is" is often used with the derived meaning "(somebody) has" and "be" is found in most other tenses, such as past, future and infinitive. However, that doesn't make Russian "comparatively simple". It's fusional case- and gender-based nature is actually rather hard. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 10:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Future of the Tetum?
Why not a section about the future of the Tetum and his development? The tetum is in risk again the influence of the portuguese ex-colonialist.

That might be a good idea. While Tetum does appear to be going through a cultural resurgence, it might be important to identify which Tetum we are talking about -- Tetum Terik or Tetum Prasa, or write about both. From my assessment, Tetum Terik appears to be more at threat, given its shrinking usage and the dominance of Tetum Prasa as a national language and lingua franca. If we are talking about the lasting impact of Portuguese on Tetum, particularly Tetum Prasa, it would also be worthwhile to talk about the influence of Bahasa Indonesia on the language both in historic and current terms as well. One interesting feature in modern Tetum is the fact that in most daily interactions most Tetum speakers use numbers in Indonesian (and to a lesser extent in Portuguese) instead of using the indigenous forms. HartmannSE (talk) 12:55, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

União Nacional dos Escuteiros de Timor Leste
Can someone who speaks Tetum render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Tetum, for that article? Thanks! Chris 14:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Pretty versus handsome
I'm removing the following from the article:

In some instances, the different gender forms of Portuguese loanwords have distinct meanings, for example:

 * bonitu - handsome
 * bonita - pretty

I feel that this is too English-centric. Whether "handsome" and "pretty" are "distinct notions", or the masculine and the feminine of the "same notion" is a matter of opinion, and clearly conditioned by one's language. In Portuguese, I would say that the two words mean essentially the same; they're just inflections of a common lexeme. FilipeS 01:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ona: aspectual marker?
The marker -ona is mentioned as one way to express the past tense, but later it appears again as a marker of the perfect aspect. Since it's well known that many languages use the perfect aspect to imply a past tense, I'm wondering whether sentences like Ha'u la han etu tiha ona wouldn't be best described as being in the perfect aspect, rather than the past tense. FilipeS (talk) 14:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Mutations and conjugations (in Tetun-Terik)
Is what is described in this section not the same as an actual conjugation, where the verbs inflect through prefixes? FilipeS (talk) 20:02, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Tetum versus Tetun Prasa / Tetun Dili
Is there a reason that this page has both Tetum and Tetun Prasa / Tetun Dili on it? It references ethnologue stating that they are different languages, and they have different ISO codes. Wouldn't it be better to split them into separate articles, maybe leaving one that either disambiguates or gives general information that applies to both? If "Tetum/Tetun" is a term that can not just apply to each, but can apply to both together (e.g., if they are often referred to as one language), then that would argue for the latter—but I still thing the page should be split into two. —Firespeaker (talk) 15:37, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Tetum(Tetun) refers to both an ethnic group and language in Timor-Leste. In real terms there are two main forms of Tetum as a language -- Tetum Terik, which is a more indigenous form of Tetum marked by different word choice, less foreign influence and other characteristics such as verb conjugation and Tetum/n Prasa (Market Tetum from the word Praca in Portuguese meaning square as in town square) or Tetum/n Dili (given its widespread usage in the capital Dili), the Tetum-based creole (heavily influenced by Portuguese) that developed in Dili during colonial rule as local Tetum speakers came into contact with Portuguese missionaries, traders and colonial rulers. Nowadays, the term Tetum is as you mentioned used to collectively refer to both, unless someone wants to emphasize the more indigenous form "Tetum Terik." In other words, Tetum is usually synonymous with Tetum Prasa/Dili and is as you noted the lingua franca, both widely spoken across the country and used by the government, mass media and business. As you mention I would argue for one entry article and then split into two as per the ISO codes. HartmannSE (talk) 12:47, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

I just made an edit based on this discussion, to clarify the difference between the two in the leading section of page. Fede.Campana (talk) 06:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Tetum language


text:
Pula Arena

The Pula Arena (Pulska Arena; Arena di Pola) is a Roman amphitheatre located in Pula, Croatia. It is the only remaining Roman amphitheatre to have four side towers entirely preserved. It was constructed between 27 BC and AD 68, and is among the world's six largest surviving Roman arenas. The arena is also the country's best-preserved ancient monument.

The amphitheatre was depicted on the reverse of the Croatian 10 kuna banknote, issued in 1993, 1995, 2001 and 2004.

History
The Arena was built between 27 BC and 68 AD, as the city of Pula became a regional centre of Roman rule, called Pietas Julia. The building is named after the sand (Latin harena) that once covered the inner performance area. It was built outside the town walls along the Via Flavia, the road from Pula to Aquileia and Rome.

The amphitheatre was first built in timber during the reign of Augustus (2–14 AD). It was replaced by a small stone amphitheatre during the reign of Emperor Claudius. In 79 AD it was enlarged to accommodate gladiator fights by Vespasian and to be completed in 81 AD under Emperor Titus. This was confirmed by the discovery of a Vespasian coin in the malting.

In legend, Saint Germanus, of whom little is known, was tortured in the Amphitheatre in or around 290, and subsequently martyred outside the city, on the road to Nesactium. The amphitheatre remained in use until the 5th century, when Emperor Honorius prohibited gladiatorial combats. It was not until 681 that combat between convicts, particularly those sentenced to death, and wild animals was forbidden. In the 5th century the amphitheatre began to see its stone plundered by the local populace. By the 13th century, the patriarch of Aquileia forbade further removal from the arena.

Construction
The exterior wall is constructed in limestone. The part facing the sea consists of three stories, while the other part has only two stories since the amphitheatre was built on a slope. The maximum height of the exterior wall is 29.40 m. The first two floors have each 72 arches, while the top floor consists of 64 rectangular openings.

The axes of the elliptical amphitheatre are 132.45 and 105.10 m long, and the walls stand 32.45 m high. It could accommodate 23,000 spectators in the cavea, which had forty steps divided into two meniani. The seats rest directly on the sloping ground; The field for the games, the proper arena, measured 67.95 by. The field was separated from the public by iron gates.

The arena had a total of 15 gates. A series of underground passageways were built underneath the arena along the main axis from which animals, ludi scenes and fighters could be released; stores and shops were located under the raked seating. The amphitheatre was part of the circuit of the gladiators.

Each of the four towers had two cisterns filled with perfumed water that fed a fountain or could be sprinkled on the spectators. The amphitheatre could be covered with velaria (large sails), protecting the spectators from sun or rain (as attested by rare construction elements). Below the arena was a system of canals which collected rainwater and effluent and drained into the sea.

This amphitheatre, through its conservation, has served as an example for the study of ancient building techniques.

Later use
In the Middle Ages the interior of the Arena was often used for grazing, occasional tournaments by the Knights of Malta and medieval fairs. In 1583 the Venetian Senate proposed dismantling the arena and rebuilding it within Venice. The proposals were rejected. Today, a headstone celebrating the Venetian senator Gabriele Emo opposition to the plan is currently visible on the second tower.

In 1789, stone was taken from Pula arena for the belfry foundations at Pula Cathedral. This was the last time the arena was used as a source of stone.

Restoration
General Auguste de Marmont, as governor of the Illyrian Provinces during the First French Empire, started the restoration of the arena. This was continued in 1816 by the Ticinese architect Pietro Nobile, commissioned by the Emperor Francis I of Austria.

In 1932, the arena was adapted for theatre productions, military ceremonies and public meetings. In its present state, seating capacity is around 7,000 and 12,500 for all standing events.

Present day
The arena is used as a venue for many concerts. Performances have included ones by Foo Fighters, Luciano Pavarotti, Đorđe Balašević, Plácido Domingo, Andrea Bocelli, Nina Badrić, Hillsong United, Patrizio Buanne, Jose Carreras, Dino Merlin, Jamiroquai, Anastacia, Eros Ramazzotti, Maksim Mrvica, Norah Jones, Zucchero, Zdravko Čolić, Alanis Morissette, Sinéad O'Connor, Elton John, Dua Lipa, 2Cellos, Sting, Michael Bolton, Seal, Il Divo, Tom Jones, Gibonni, Manu Chao, Oliver Dragojević, Leonard Cohen, Grace Jones, Moderat, David Gilmour, Avril Lavigne, Arctic Monkeys and Frank Zivkovic. It has a capacity of about 5000 spectators, and also hosts operas, ballets, sports competitions as well as the Pula Film Festival. The arena is open to the public daily, and the underground passages house exhibitions of viticulture and olive growing in Istria. The arena has also been used for cinematic works such as Titus, a 1999 film adaptation of Shakespeare's revenge tragedy Titus Andronicus by Julie Taymor. On 8 July 2019, a football match was played between the former players of FC Bayern Munich and the Croatia national football team as part of a tourism partnership deal between FC Bayern Munich and the Istria Tourist Board signed in 2018. Two professional ice hockey games were played there on September 14 and 16, 2012; KHL Medveščak, a Zagreb-based Erste Bank Eishockey Liga club, hosted HDD Olimpija Ljubljana and the Vienna Capitals.

title: Pula Arena