text:
Ghosting

Ghosting may refer to:

Common uses

 * Ghosting (identity theft), a form of identity theft, whereby a person takes on the identity of a deceased person
 * Ghosting (incarceration), repeatedly moving a prisoner through different institutions to avoid scrutiny, or because the prisoner has become unmanageable
 * Ghosting (behavior), ending all communication and contact with another person without any apparent warning or justification
 * Ghosting (television), a double image when receiving a distorted or multipath input signal in analog television broadcasting
 * Ghosting (medical imaging), a visual artifact that occurs in magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans
 * Ghosting, an offset printing defect produced in one of two ways, in which faint replicas of printed images appear in undesirable places
 * Comment ghosting, a form of stealth banning on internet forums
 * Key ghosting, a phenomenon where multiple simultaneous key presses on a computer keyboard can result in incorrectly registered keystrokes
 * Lens flare, an optical effect caused by internal reflections
 * Multiple appearances of the same object in high dynamic range imaging, where multiple images are merged into one.

Music

 * "Ghosting" (song), a song by Joe Bermudez
 * "Ghostin", a song by Ariana Grande
 * "Ghosting", a song by Mother Mother from the 2008 album O My Heart

Video games

 * Ghosting (strategy), a way of playing a video game that emphasizes stealthiness
 * Ghosting, a form of cheating in online games

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ghosting


text:
William Scoresby

William Scoresby (5 October 1789 – 21 March 1857) was an English whaler, Arctic explorer, scientist and clergyman.

Early years
Scoresby was born in the village of Cropton near Pickering 26 mi south-west of Whitby in Yorkshire. His father, William Scoresby (1760–1829), made a fortune in the Arctic whale fishery and was also the inventor of the barrel crow's nest. The son made his first voyage with his father at the age of eleven, but then returned to school, where he remained until 1803.

After this he became his father's constant companion, and accompanied him as chief officer of the whaler Resolution when on 25 May 1806, he succeeded in reaching 81°30' N. lat. (19° E. long), for twenty-one years the highest northern latitude attained in the eastern hemisphere. During the following winter, Scoresby attended the natural philosophy and chemistry classes at Edinburgh University, and again in 1809.

Scientist
In his voyage of 1807, Scoresby began the study of the meteorology and natural history of the polar regions. Earlier results included his original observations on snow and crystals; and in 1809 Robert Jameson brought certain Arctic papers of his before the Wernerian Society of Edinburgh, which at once elected him to its membership.

In 1811, Scoresby's father resigned to him the command of the Resolution. In the same year he married the daughter of a Whitby shipbroker. In his voyage of 1813, he established for the first time the fact that the polar ocean has a warmer temperature at considerable depths than it has on the surface, and each subsequent voyage in search of whales found him no less eager of fresh additions to scientific knowledge. His letters of this period to Sir Joseph Banks, whose acquaintance he had made a few years earlier, no doubt gave the first impulse to the search for the North-West Passage which followed. On 29 June 1816, commanding the Esk on his fifteenth whaling voyage from Whitby, Scoresby encountered grave problems when ice damaged his ship. With the aid of his brother-in-law's crew on board the John, and after agreeing to surrendering much of their catch, the Esk was repaired, of which Scoresby recounted in his 1820 book The Northern Whale-Fishery.

In 1819, Scoresby was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh. His proposers were Robert Jameson, John Playfair and Sir G S Mackenzie. About the same time he communicated a paper to the Royal Society of London: "On the Anomaly in the Variation of the Magnetic Needle". In 1820, he published An Account of the Arctic Regions and Northern Whale Fishery, in which he gathers up the results of his own observations, as well as those of previous navigators.

In 1820 and 1821 he commanded Fame on whale hunting voyages to the Greenland whale fishery. In 1821 he was accompanied on the Baffin (1820) of Liverpool to Greenland by George Manby, who wished to test a new type of harpoon for whaling, based on the same principles as his Manby mortar. Manby published his account in 1822 as Journal of a Voyage to Greenland, containing observations on the flora and fauna of the Arctic regions as well as the practice of whale hunting.

In his voyage of 1822 to Greenland, Scoresby surveyed and charted with remarkable accuracy 400 miles of the east coast, between 69° 30' and 72° 30', thus contributing to the first real and important geographic knowledge of East Greenland. This, however, proved to be the last of his Arctic voyages. On his return, he learnt of his wife's death, and this event, with other influences acting upon his naturally pious spirit, decided him to enter the church.

Scoresby's Journal of a Voyage to the Northern Whale Fishery, including Researches and Discoveries on the Eastern Coast of Greenland (1823), appeared at Edinburgh. In 1824, the Royal Society elected him a fellow, and in 1827, he became an honorary corresponding member of the Paris Academy of Sciences.

From the first, Scoresby worked as an active member and official of the British Association for the Advancement of Science, and he contributed especially to the knowledge of terrestrial magnetism. Of his sixty papers in the Royal Society list, many relate to this department of research. However, his observations extended into many other departments, including researches on optics and, with James Joule, comparing electromagnetic (chemical), thermal (coal/steam), and organic (horse) power sources.

To obtain additional data for his theories on magnetism, he made a voyage to Australia in 1856 on board the ill-fated iron-hulled Royal Charter, the results of which appeared in a posthumous publication: Journal of a Voyage to Australia for Magnetical Research, edited by Archibald Smith (1859). He made two visits to America, in 1844 and 1848; on his return home from the latter visit he made observations on the height of Atlantic waves, the results of which were given to the British Association. He interested himself much in social questions, especially the improvement of the condition of factory operatives.

In 1850, Scoresby published a work urging the prosecution of the search for the Franklin expedition and giving the results of his own experience in Arctic navigation.

Clerical career
Scoresby began divinity studies at Queens' College, Cambridge, enrolling under the ten-year divinity statute and thus becoming a ten-year man, and also became the curate of Bessingby, Yorkshire. In 1834 he received his bachelor's degree in divinity (BD) from Cambridge University, and in 1839, was awarded an honorary doctorate, Doctor of Divinity (DD). Clerical duties at Bessingby, and later at Liverpool, Exeter and Bradford, co-existed with his interest in science. He published numerous works and papers of a religious character.

From 1839 to 1846 Scoresby was vicar of Bradford, Yorkshire, a "large, industrial, dissenting parish", also described as an "ever-expanding, raucous, restless industrial conurbation", 15 mi across. The appointment to Bradford had been in the hands of the Simeon Trust, since Charles Simeon's death in 1836. His predecessor Henry Heap (died 1839), had let the administration slide. There were 13 Bradford curates, counting incumbent perpetual curates, who included Patrick Brontë and William Morgan (1782–1858). There were new churches, such as St James's built by John Wood, and one at Wibsey under construction by the Hardy family, ironmasters.

Scoresby addressed matters in hand, but succeeded only in generating contentious issues. On finance, he took on Wood in 1840, over surplice fees in his new church, and was opposed by Wood's "factory movement" allies and others. St James's was closed for a period, and Wood moved away to the south. Scoresby believed in smaller catchment districts for churches; he clashed with Morgan over this issue. He tried unsuccessfully to divide the parish in 1843. Suffering a breakdown in health, Scoresby resigned as vicar in 1846, after a tour in the US to look at industrial conditions. He took no further permanent clerical posts.

Personal
Scoresby married three times. After his third marriage (1849), he built a villa at Torquay, where he was appointed honorary lecturer at the Parish church of St Mary Magdalene, Upton.

He died in Torquay on 21 March 1857. He is buried in the churchyard at Upton and commemorated by a memorial which is decorated with mariner's compass and dividers, and a Bible. He is also memorialised on the family grave in Whitby. His sister Arabella Scoresby was mother to the physician Robert Edmund Scoresby-Jackson FRSE.

Legacy
A number of places have been named after him, including:
 * the Lunar crater Scoresby
 * Scoresbysund, now Ittoqqortoormiit on the east coast of Greenland
 * the Scoresby Sund fjord system
 * the Melbourne suburb of Scoresby, Victoria in Australia, which is 25 km southeast of the CBD
 * RRS William Scoresby, an early-twentieth-century research vessel in the employ of the British scientific organisation, Discovery Investigations;
 * William Scoresby Bay and the William Scoresby Archipelago, off the Antarctic coast, are named after RRS William Scoresby.
 * Scoresby Land in Greenland
 * Cape Scoresby (66°34′S 162°45′E / 66.567°S 162.75°E / -66.567; 162.75), bluff marking the north end of Borradaile Island.
 * Scoresbyøya, which means Scoresby Island in English. A small island of 6 km2, north of Nordaustlandet, Svalbard, Norway.

References in literature
Herman Melville's main character Ishmael quotes Scoresby in the Cetology chapter of Moby-Dick: "'No branch of Zoology is so much involved as that which is entitled Cetology,' says Captain Scoresby, A.D. 1820."

Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy features a character named Lee Scoresby, an intrepid explorer, old Arctic hand, and balloon aeronaut. Pullman has stated that the character was named after William Scoresby and Lee Van Cleef.

Scoresby is named in H. P. Lovecraft's science fiction-horror novella, At the Mountains of Madness, as having observed and drawn "some of the wilder forms" of arctic mirages.

title: William Scoresby


text:
A Lump of Coal

A Lump of Coal is an Australian compilation album of Christmas music produced in 1991 by Dead Line Records (Australia) and First Warning Records (U.S.) for RCA Records. While most of the artists from this disc remain unknown to most, Hoodoo Gurus, Crash Test Dummies, The Wedding Present, The Primitives, and Henry Rollins have all produced well-known albums and many of the other artists are popular amongst rock fans.

Track listing

 * 1) "Little Drummer Boy" – Hoodoo Gurus — 2:24
 * 2) "The First Noel" – Crash Test Dummies — 3:42
 * 3) "Step Into Christmas" – The Wedding Present (originally recorded by Elton John) — 4:48
 * 4) "Blue X-mas (To Whom It May Concern)" – Drunken Boat (originally recorded by Miles Davis) — 4:19
 * 5) "O Holy Night" – Divine Weeks — 4:52
 * 6) "Bring a Torch, Jeanette, Isabella" – Carnival Art — 4:00
 * 7) "Silent Night" – The Primitives — 2:12
 * 8) "O Little Town of Bethlehem" – Young Fresh Fellows — 2:55
 * 9) "Kings of Orient" – The Odds — 4:29
 * 10) "Here Comes Santa Claus" – Clockhammer — 2:34
 * 11) "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" – Henry Rollins — 4:08

title: A Lump of Coal


text:
User talk:Ivan~enwiki

I noticed that no one wrote on your talk page and I think that you shouldn't be left out. So, have a post and some Greetings from Belgrade. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 21:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Welcome
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Nomination of Central Valley Project Water Association for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Central Valley Project Water Association is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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title: User talk:Ivan~enwiki


text:
Achaeus of Eretria

Achaeus of Eretria (Ἀχαιός ὁ Ἐρετριεύς; born 484 BC in Euboea) was a Greek playwright and author of tragedies and satyr plays. He is variously said to have written 24, 30, or 44 plays, of which 19 titles are known: Adrastus, Aethon, Alcmeon, Alphesiboea, Athla, Azanes, Cycnus, Eumenides, Hephaestus, Iris, Linus, Moirai (Fates), Momus, Oedipus, Omphale, Philoctetes, Phrixus, Pirithous, and Theseus. Achaeus of Eretria was regarded in antiquity as being the second greatest writer of satyr plays, after Aeschylus.

Achaeus' first play was produced in 447 BC and won a prize. A quote in Aristophanes' The Frogs suggests he was dead by around 405 BC. Some classicists suggest that the fact that he only won a single prize was due to his non-Athenian birth, as the men of Athens were loath to honour any but their own fellow-citizens.

Achaeus of Eretria belongs to the classic age, but is not recognized as a classic writer. His satyric plays were much admired for their spirited style, albeit somewhat laboured and lacking in clarity. The philosopher Menedemus thought his plays second only to Aeschylus, he was part of the Alexandrian canon, and Didymus wrote a commentary on him. Athenaeus (10.451c) describes him as having a lucid style, but with tendencies to obscurity. Athenaeus also claimed that Euripides took a line from Achaeus, while Aristophanes quotes him twice, in The Frogs and The Wasps.

His work survives only in fragments, as well as the titles of seven satyr plays and eleven tragedies, which are as follows:

Tragedies

 * Adrastos (Ἀδράστος)
 * Azanes (Ἀζάνες)
 * Athla (Ἆθλα)
 * Alphesiboia (Ἀλφεσίβοια)
 * Eumenides (Εὐμενίδης)
 * Theseus (Θησεύς)
 * Kyknos (Κύκνος)
 * Momos (Μώμος)
 * Oedipus (Οἰδίπους)
 * Peirithous (Πειρίθους)
 * Philoctetes in Troy (Φιλοκτήτης ἐν Τροίαι)
 * Phrixos (Φρίξος)

Satyr Plays

 * Aithon (Αἴθων)
 * Alkmaion (Ἀλκμαίων)
 * Hephaestus (Ἥφαιστος)
 * Iris (Ἴρις)
 * Linos (Λινός)
 * Moirai (Μοῖραι)
 * Omphale (Ὀμφάλη)

title: Achaeus of Eretria


text:
Talk:List of individual apes

Sultan
can someone verify "Sultan" as a famous ape? and if so, what kind was he?

 * He was a lab chimp who exhibited behaviour that some have interpreted as intelligent tool use: --Paul A 08:49, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Bonobos
Bonobos are a kind of chimpanzee, so I propose we move bonobos to the chimp page.--Mishac 08:40, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Or maybe we should bow to the inevitable and merge the ape and chimp pages. If we take all the chimps (including Sultan and the bonobos) off this page, there's not going to be much left... --Paul A 08:49, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Bonobos are a separate species from chimpanzee - so probably better to leave them in two places. Flit 15:14, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Article title and merges
I plan to remove the word "historical" from the article name. See Talk:List_of_historical_animals for further discussion. Jay 08:39, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've merged List of historical chimpanzees back into List of historical apes. --Paul A 04:25, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Earlier discussion from earlier articles merged into this one can be found at Talk:List of famous chimpanzees and Talk:List of historical chimpanzees. -- Infrogmation 05:13, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I have moved the article from "List of historical apes" to "List of apes", as suggested back in March. -- Infrogmation 16:33, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Should the famous apes page be merged into this one? Some animals occur there but not here. Flit 15:14, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Just a factual note, the sentence: "Of course, this does not include humans, as they are not apes by definition." is not correct. Humans, chimpanzees, orangutans and gorillas are all members of the biological family Hominidae. See Great ape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.24.177.225 (talk) 06:05, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

What about Gibbons and Siamangs?
They're apes, not monkeys, and not included on the list... Nate 22:34, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

 * This is a relevant point. Currently this list so called ape only appears to include great apes not lesser apes. If it is intended to only include great apes then it should be renamed. If it is intended to include both, then it should be expand or at least the opening paragraph should be re-worked to mention it includes lessers apes. Nil Einne 21:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I've added gibbons to the list (n.b. siamangs are gibbons) Nil Einne 05:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Passion and her daughter
Jane Goodall reported in a National Geographic documentary that there were these 2 canaballistic chimpanzees; who killed baby chimps and ate them (shared the meat between Passion and her own daughter). She may have killed more than 10 baby chimps. This shows canabalism; so maybe these two chimps should be listed here? They seem to be pretty popular in this regard. There was another chimp, I believe it was the daughter or sister of Melissa the chimp, who tried to beg the humans for help while they were observing Passion & her daughter try and kill Melissa's newborn baby (while Melissa was attempting to defend it). 165.196.139.24 16:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Baboons
As far as I can tell from wikipedia, baboons are not considered apes even tho the word ape may have originally refered to baboons. As such I removed this line:
 * Repe - the alpha male in the baboon community of Korkeasaari Zoo, Helsinki

Nil Einne 21:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Update: I added this to the list of monkeys Nil Einne 21:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct, baboons are not now considered as apes (though bonobos of course are). seglea 22:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Fabian?
I removed the following (sorry I somehow got confused with baboons when I originally removed it):

 * Fabian - bonobo, 3D renderer

As it looks like vandalism to me. I'm highly doubt that a true bonobo 3D renderer exists and suspect it's someone's idea of a 'joke' on someone named Fabian who is a 3D renderer but not a bonobo. A quick Google also doesn't find anything. 21:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

50 Cent
someone do something about the 50 cent thing. unless i'm missing something, it's just offensive.

Micaco Tiao
I changed the text. While I don't know the subject at all, I highly doubt he had a habit of throwing excrement at politicians. Most likely, he had a habit of throwing excrement at visitos, which occasionally included politicians and when it did it got in to the news. Perhaps he was particularly annoyed by large parties or cameras or something so politician tended to get a lot of it, but this would be because of the fact they're in a large party or have cameras following them, not because they're politicians. BTW, I assume he's dead from the past tense that was used? Nil Einne 19:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Humans and apes
An anon user removed the bit about not including humans. I've re-added it. I also added the non-human part to the first line. Perhaps if we say non-human apes we don't really need to clarify but IMHO it's better if we do both. However I will not object if you remove the explaination but not the non-human (or vice versa). And if you don't think humans are apes try reading the article Nil Einne 19:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Finster
I moved Finster to the monkey list. Based on the fact that Finster appeared in the movie Monkey Trouble and also appeared as a monkey in another movie, I'm assuming Finster is a monkey but of course, it wouldn't be surprising if Finster was in fact a ape of some sort (probably a chimp). If someone can confirm that would be great Nil Einne 04:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Lancelot Link
Anyone know the names of the chimpanzee actors in the children's TV show Lancelot Link? Only two (Tongo and Debbie) are mentioned in that article. — Loadmaster 17:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

As to the list of "Famous Chimps", why are the Marquis Chimps not on that list? Didn't they occasionally appear on the Ed Sullivan Show in the 50's & 60's? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.155.110.74 (talk) 13:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Albino Chimpanzee
I was reading the article about the albino gorilla. Why is'nt there one about the albino chimpanzee "Pinkie", http://www.tacugama.com/pinkie.html ?

Orangutang starred 80's show
I remember a show back in the 80's that featured an orangutang as the main character, but I can't remember the name. The orangutang was a female, I think, and the character has almost super-strength. It is a semi-obscure reference, but if anyone else remembers it, it might be worth looking into it. GoEThe (talk) 12:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Snowflake
Why is there not a space for Snowflake, the white gorilla? http://gorilla-haven.org/ Look under "Famous Gorillas" on the left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.147.156.86 (talk) 02:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

List of Apes?
This title is vague. It should be "notable apes" or "famous apes" or something. Chrisrus (talk) 18:53, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Travis
What about Travis (chimpanzee)? I just put him under "Pet Apes", but could he have been in "ape actors", as he had had a somewhat impressive resume of roles and co-stars before he became world famous, not for being a famous person's pet like the rest of that catagory, but for that horrible mauling of a family friend in Connecticut last year.

Should there be a separate list for apes primarily famous for attacking a human? Chrisrus (talk) 08:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

sort order
Currently the sections are sorted just by name of the ape. Should we divide each section for gorillas, chimps, etc? Then within each type of ape, we can sort by name.

List of Apes, Revisited
I see what you mean. The word "notable" seems useless. For example, "List of Iowans" or some such, it's assumed that they are going to be "notable" or "famous." No one is going to think it's a list of all the Iowans who ever lived. You don't need to call it "List of Notable Iowans".

However, I just don't think that "List of Apes" is the answer. It's just too vauge. You see, "Chimp, Gorilla, Bonobo, Orangutan" is also a list of apes. So is "King Kong, Clyde, Dr. Zeus". The tile of an article should not be ambiguous like this. It should say very specifically what this article is a list of. "List of Apes" could be any number of things. Is there no compromise title?

I hope you will agree with me that "List of Apes" is vague. Chrisrus (talk) 19:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

 * There seems to be a movement to name such articles "Individual ____" instead of "List of ________". For example, List of cats is now List of individual cats. Chrisrus (talk) 01:44, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Famous western lowland gorillas in captivity
I've removed the following section (Famous western lowland gorillas in captivity) from western lowland gorilla as it doesn't fit there.

 * Babec – On exhibit at the Birmingham Zoo in Birmingham, Alabama (USA) and was the first gorilla to receive an artificial pacemaker.
 * Beta – First ever gorilla to undergo hip replacement (three times: 1995, 2005, 2007). Lived at Brookfield Zoo with guenons. Died 2008.
 * Binti Jua – Saved a three-year-old boy that fell into her habitat in 1996 at Brookfield Zoo.
 * Charles – A silverback and resident of the Toronto Zoo since 1974. Known for his painting abilities.
 * Colo – First gorilla to be born in captivity anywhere in the world and currently the oldest gorilla in captivity in the world. She was born at the Columbus Zoo to Millie Christina (mother) and Baron Macombo (father) on December 22, 1956.
 * Goma – First gorilla born in a European zoo. Celebrated her 50th birthday on September 23, 2009 at Zoo Basel.
 * Guy the Gorilla – Large Western Lowland Gorilla that belonged to the London Zoo.
 * Jambo – World-famous gorilla born at Zoo Basel and then transferred to the Jersey Zoo. On August 31, 1986, the five year old Levan Merritt fell into the gorilla enclosure and lost consciousness. Jambo stood guard over the boy when he was unconscious. Jersey Zoo has erected a bronze statue of Jambo. Both a book and a documentary were made.
 * Koko – Female western lowland gorilla whose trainer taught to use sign language to communicate.
 * Massa – This former resident of the Philadelphia Zoo set the longevity record of 54 years at the time of his death in 1984.
 * Nico – The oldest male gorilla in Europe. Lives at Longleat Safari Park in his own house on an island in the middle of the lake, with satelite television. He has been constantly featured on BBC Animal Park, and is well known and loved by the safari parks visitors
 * Snowflake – The only albino gorilla known to date. Lived at Barcelona Zoo. Euthanized 2003.
 * Tam-tam – First zoo gorilla who grew up in its gorilla group. Born to Goma at Zoo Basel.

Incorporate if you think they are worth it. Jack (talk) 12:28, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

"apes"
The name of this article should really be changed to "List of notable non-human apes". 98.231.173.213 (talk) 18:03, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Do a move request. Chrisrus (talk) 22:14, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Lily
What about Lily at Disney's Animal Kingdom Theme Park, she has been in the news often and is know for the physical thearapy she went through during her first year of life. Do we feel she is a noteworthy candidate for this list? 192.195.66.3 (talk) 19:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: article moved Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  09:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

List of apes → List of individual apes – matches naming of the corresponding category Category:individual apes, and prevents confusion with a list of ape populations, genera, or species 70.24.251.208 (talk) 11:56, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

 * Support. Adds clarity, can't see a reason not to move. Jenks24 (talk) 13:18, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. makes things more consistent, I don't see any downside. Don Lammers (talk) 00:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support as long as this new name matches similar lists for other animals. (The category name shouldn't be the only consideration—we should look across WP:Animals.) –  Maky  « talk » 17:58, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment List of animals is a list of species, genera, breeds and the like, not individual animals. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 04:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Category:Apes does not contain contents that this list would imply it would. Instead it is located at Category:Individual apes. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 11:58, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Koko as Artist?
I'm curious why Koko the gorilla is listed under 'artists' rather than 'science and exploration' where other apes which are most notable for their roles in ape language studies appear to be listed 70.73.134.255 (talk) 18:53, 26 September 2018 (UTC) André

Buddah
Article says the ape actor Buddah was beaten to death, however Wikipedia's own article on the film Any Which Way You Can indicates that doubt has been cast on this claim by a crew member and provides a source. For consistency, this should be added. (I know nothing of the situation so am not disputing the accuracy of this list, but having found a disputed claim, I'm mentioning it out of due diligence). 70.73.90.119 (talk) 21:49, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I've added a rider to this effect. I doubt if the truth will ever be known. Darorcilmir (talk) 22:08, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Consul
This was the name for a number of notable chimpanzees in the Bostock and Wombwell circus around the turn of the 20th century. https://www.georgewombwell.com/gw_blog/2014/06/07/artefacts-consul-the-intelligent-chimpanzee/ The name is cited in the page Proconsul (mammal) in the section explaining the naming of that genus and has a reference there. Milkfish (talk) 20:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of individual apes


text:
Tulle

Tulle (Tula ) is a commune in central France. It is the third-largest town in the former region of Limousin and is the capital of the department of Corrèze, in the region of Nouvelle-Aquitaine. Tulle is also the episcopal see of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulle.

Stretching over more than three kilometres in the narrow and tortuous Corrèze valley, Tulle spreads its old quarters on the hillside overlooking the river, while the Notre-Dame cathedral emerges from the heart of the town. Known sometimes as "the town on seven hills", Tulle rose to prominence through the development of its manufacturing sector.

Geography

Tulle is the third largest town in Limousin, behind Limoges and Brive-la-Gaillarde. It is situated in a very deep part of the river Corrèze valley, at its confluence with several of its tributaries, the Solane and the Céronne on the right bank, and the Saint-Bonnette and the Montane on the left bank. It stretches along a very narrow strip several kilometres long from the north-east to the south-west.

Tulle is located at the crossroads of several communication routes:

 * Bordeaux - Clermont-Ferrand - Lyon axis: RD 1089 and the A89 motorway;
 * Uzerche - Sévérac-le-Château axis: link between the A20 and the A75 via Tulle, Argentat-sur-Dordogne, Aurillac, Montsalvy, Espalion and Laissac. This corresponds to taking the RD 1120 then the departmental roads 920 and 28 and finally the RN 88.

Tulle station has rail connections to Brive-la-Gaillarde, Ussel and Bordeaux. Tulle is the meeting point between the South-West of France and the Massif Central. It is the former capital of Bas-Limousin, whose boundaries correspond approximately to the current department of Corrèze.

Antiquity
The origins of the town are still subject to debate today but it would seem that the present puy Saint-Clair, a rocky spur with steep slopes separating the Corrèze valley from that of the Solane, was an ideal location for the establishment of a Gallic oppidum. For a long time, it seems that the town has been an important crossroads on the road between Armorique and the Mediterranean Sea and on the road between Aquitaine and the Rhone Valley, both of which crossed the Corrèze at this point by a ford.

With the Roman occupation, the place would have been converted into a necropolis and temple in honour of Tutela, a Roman divine power to whom the protection of people, things and especially places was entrusted, would have been built. This Roman goddess, protector of the travellers who used to use the ford, is the namesake of the city. The temple of Tutela must have been located in the Trech district, whose name refers to the crossing of a river. The real urban centre of the region moved a few kilometres north, to the commune of Naves and the site of Tintignac, which became a crossroads between the Roman roads that followed the ancient routes of the Celtic period.

Middle Ages

The Merovingian period would have seen the Christianization of the city and the establishment of three places of worship dedicated to St. Martin, St. Peter and St. Julian. The city officially entered history only with the transformation in the 7th century of the church dedicated to Saint Martin into a monastery under the impetus of Calmine, already founder of the monastery of Mozat in Auvergne. Around the places of worship began to gather the inhabitants of the country and Tulle became once again an urban centre, a status lost since the Roman conquest.

The town was plundered several times by the Vikings, despite being several hundred kilometres from the sea, and it was during one of these sackings, in 846, that the first monastery was destroyed. To warn the inhabitants of the town of the arrival of the Vikings, a watchtower was built on a rocky promontory at Cornil, a few kilometres downstream from the Corrèze. The place was nevertheless considered safe by many churches on the Atlantic coast who had sent their relics there to preserve them from looting, notably those of Saint Clair, Saint Lô and Saint Baumard. The monastery was later rebuilt but disappeared in the 11th century. In 1989, excavations under the nave of the present cathedral uncovered the remains of an apsidiole dating from the Carolingian period as well as a poly-lobed portal of Mozarabic influence.

New constructions are undertaken for the abbey, now dedicated to Saint Martin and converted to Benedictine rule in the 11th century. On a visit to Tulle in 1095, Pope Urban II granted it his protection. The first stone of the new abbey church was laid in 1130 but the building was not completed until two centuries later. The spire of the 12th century culminates at a height of 75 metres, making it the highest in Limousin. In 2005, during construction in the vicinity of the cathedral, excavations uncovered the north wall of the medieval church of Saint-Julien, the discovery of a cemetery and three granite sarcophagi dating from the High Middle Ages. In addition, the Gothic cloister is the last one preserved in Limousin.

In 1317, Pope John XXII created the diocese of Tulle by detaching fifty-two parishes from the diocese of Limoges and the abbey-church became a cathedral. During the Hundred Years' War, the English took the city in 1346 before being driven out of it a month later by the Count of Armagnac, suffering in quick succession two trying sieges during which the inhabitants were reduced to famine. In 1370, the city sided with the King of France, Charles V, which earned it tax exemption and the ennoblement of several bourgeois families. But in 1373, the Duke of Lancaster appeared before the city and demanded that the gates be opened to him, and, in the absence of any command, a representative assembly of the population was convened and decided to carry out a new sacking. The pardon of the King of France for this betrayal took place in 1375.

The Black Death hit the city in 1348 and, on the evening of 23 June, in despair, the city authorities decided to march behind a statue of Saint John to stop what was considered a divine scourge. The plague ceased shortly afterwards, and the Tullists promised to renew this procession every year. It is still perpetuated today and is called the "Procession of the Lunade".

At the beginning of the 15th century, the town fell victim to the so-called "roadmen", brigands such as Jean de La Roche who set fire to the town in 1426 or Rodrigue de Villandrando to whom the town had to pay a large ransom in order to be spared in 1436. In 1430, the bishop recognised the power of thirty-four prud'hommes, also called "boniviri", who had military and financial powers but who had in fact been dealing with the affairs of the community unofficially since the 13th century. In 1443, Charles VII convened the Estates General of Bas-Limousin in Tulle.

The town was then divided between l'Enclos, the district around the abbey-church where the nobles, bourgeois and clerics lived, and the upper town, where most of the population lived, around the castle, located on the puy Saint-Clair and which is still characterized today by its narrow, steep streets, sometimes with stairs. In the 14th century, several noble families (Saint-Martial de Puy-de-Val, Rodarel de Seilliac, ...) began to extend the town on the left bank of the Corrèze, opposite the Cathedral, in the Alverge district, on the road towards Auvergne. In the 15th century, the city expanded outside its ramparts, in suburbs along the roads towards Aquitaine and the South (la Barrière and le Pilou), to Limoges and Paris (la Barussie, le Trech, le Fouret, la Rivière) and towards Auvergne (l'Alverge and le Canton).

Modern period

The abbey is practically disused with the secularization of 1514. The bishop had a castle built and the refectory became the seat of the court. In 1566, King Charles IX endows the town with a town hall and a consulate which definitively reduces the power of the bishop.

During the Wars of Religion, Tulle held out for the Catholics; the town first resisted the Huguenots in 1577, but the troops of the Viscount of Turenne took bloody revenge in 1585. They ransacked and devastated the town after an assault that the Protestant poet Agrippa d'Aubigné recounted.

In the 16th century, the nobles and bourgeois of Tulle engaged in a veritable architectural competition, of which buildings with finely crafted facades in Renaissance style such as the Hôtel de Lauthonye (1551), the Hôtel de Ventadour or the Loyac house described by Prosper Mérimée in 1838, still stand today. In the 16th century, a college was created and in 1620, teaching was entrusted to the Jesuits. In 1670, the town was equipped with a general hospital.

Numerous religious congregations settled in the town, the Recollects (1601), the Poor Clares (1605), the Feuillants (1615), the Ursulines (1618), the Bernardines (1622), the Visitandines and the Carmelites (1644) as well as the Benedictines in 1650. In 1705, Sister Marcelline Pauper founded a house in Tulle for the congregation of the Sisters of Charity of Nevers, to relieve the misery of the people and to teach children to read.

From the 17th century onwards, new economic activities appeared, the mills on the Corrèze and Solane rivers being used to produce paper for example. The lace craft develops and the "poinct de Tulle" develops until its fame becomes worldwide, tulle being frequently used for wedding dresses in particular. It was also the beginning of the arms industry in Tulle with the establishment of a factory in 1691 resulting from the collaboration between the master harquebusier Pauphile and the financier Fénis de Lacombe. The firearms factory will become a royal factory in 1777.

The mutilations of the cathedral and the abbey buildings were very significant during the French Revolution because, converted into a weapons factory, all the fittings, including the irons supporting the dome, were torn off for recovery, causing the collapse of the dome, the chevet, the transept and the north gallery of the cloister in 1796. The Episcopal Palace, two parish churches and several chapels in the suburbs were destroyed during the Revolution. The church was reopened for worship in 1803 but did not regain its title of cathedral until 1823, while the dome was never rebuilt, the nave being simply closed and the open space used for a promenade along the Corrèze on the current Quai Edmond-Perrier.

From the 19th century to World War II

During the 19th century, the physiognomy of Tulle changed a lot. A railway station opened in Souilhac district in 1871 and the town was then connected to the national railway network via Brive-la-Gaillarde. At the same time, new industries were created, notably the firearms factory. In 1886, the latter was nationalized and settled in the new district of Souilhac, along the Céronne, a river that would provide it with electricity with the construction of a hydroelectric power station in 1888. From 1917 onwards, trains passing on the nearby tracks would supply the thermal power station with coal at the level of the present Socio-Cultural Centre. Up to 5,000 employees worked at the "Manu'" as it was then known. The Manu' was the economic lung of the city and influenced the social composition of the Tullist population, which was strongly coloured by the workers.

The urban junction between the working-class district of Souilhac and the historic district of the cathedral is made by the urbanization of the current avenue Victor-Hugo. As in many other French cities inspired by the renovations of Baron Haussmann in Paris, the end of the 19th century saw the city open up, notably with the construction of the current Avenue du Général-de-Gaulle in the Trech district and the enlargement of the Place de la Cathédrale. At the same time, work was undertaken to limit the frequent floods and to clean up the city by burying the Solane river, which until then had flowed at the foot of the buildings. The city also acquired new public buildings in its role as the prefecture and main city of the department, such as the construction of the Town Hall (former bishopric), the Prefecture, the Hôtel Marbot (former Grand Séminaire), the Law Courts, the Post Office, the Halle-Gymnase (now the Latreille Hall) and the Lycée Edmond-Perrier, many of which were built in an Art Nouveau style. Completed in 1899, the Theatre is a monument of Anatole de Baudot, the first building of its kind in the world in reinforced cement. From the beginning of the 20th century, the town began to spread out on the very steep slopes of the valley and urbanisation spread.

Tulle became a garrison town from 1841, when an infantry regiment settled in the former barracks located on the Champ-de-Mars, on the current site of the Cité administrative, along the Corrèze.

From 1917 to 1922, Tulle was in the spotlight of the French press because of a news item. Over 100 anonymous letters were sent, denouncing all the secrets of the inhabitants of the city. The sender was actually Angele Laval, a spurned and insane woman. This fact inspired Clouzot for his film Le Corbeau and Cocteau for his play La Machine à écrire.

World War II
During the Second World War, the 2nd SS Division Das Reich division of the Waffen SS perpetrated a reprisal massacre of civilians in Tulle, following the killing and maiming of some 40 German soldiers in Tulle on 8 June 1944 by the Maquis resistance movement.

On 9 June 1944 a large number of male civilians were rounded up by the SS. Of these, 97 were randomly selected and then hanged from lamp posts and balconies in the town. Another 321 captives were sent to forced labour camps in Germany where 101 died. In total, the actions of the Wehrmacht, the Waffen-SS, and the SD claimed the lives of 213 civilian residents of Tulle.

Since the 1960s

In the last stages of the Algerian War and its aftermath, four military officers involved in instigating a failed coup aimed at deposing President de Gaulle were held in the prison at Tulle. De Gaulle referred at the time to "those idiotic generals playing ball in Tulle Prison". The four were Raoul Salan, Edmond Jouhaud, Maurice Challe and André Zeller. The last of them to be released was Salan, amnestied on 15 June 1968 in the wake of "The Events" of May 1968.

In 1972, the annex of the Army Technical Teaching School (EETAT) was created in Tulle to train electromechanical engineers, accountants and mechanics. In 1977, an annex of the National Technical School of the Army (ENTSOA) was opened and closed in 1984. It was replaced in 1983 by the Gendarmerie School of Tulle, located in the barracks of La Bachellerie, which today accommodates around 1,100 gendarme students.

The Day of the Jackal, a 1973 British-French political thriller film directed by Fred Zinnemann and starring Edward Fox and Michael Lonsdale, has large segments of the film set in the Tulle area. Based on the 1971 novel The Day of the Jackal by Frederick Forsyth, the film is about a professional assassin known only as the "Jackal" who is hired to assassinate French president Charles de Gaulle in the summer of 1963 and uses the Tulle area and some of its (fictional) people as cover for the preparations for the assassination attempt. Tulle appears both in the story and as the actual filming localities.

Today, Tulle, prefecture of Corrèze and bishopric, is no longer the seat of a weapons factory. Until the 1980s, MAT had been the largest employer in Limousin, but the state-owned company Giat Industries, now Nexter, has carried out numerous restructurings over the last few decades, reducing the historic Tulle production site to 120 employees. A weapons museum was created in 1979 by the staff of the factory.

Since 1973, the town centre has had a tower, the Cité administrative (Administrative City Tower), which has 22 levels and is 86 m high on the river side.

In 1996, Tulle hosted the finish of a stage of the Tour de France starting from Super-Besse (Puy-de-Dôme).

On 6 May 2012, the newly elected president, François Hollande, mayor of Tulle between 2001 and 2008, gave his first speech as President of the French Republic on the Cathedral Square, which was attended by several thousand people, including some 400 French and foreign journalists and several helicopters.

Economy
Tulle's role as a centre for lace making is highlighted by an "international lace festival" held each August. The town is also home to the Maugein accordion factory, which once employed 200, though this figure is now much reduced. Near to this there was, until recently, a significant armaments manufacturing business, but its site is now (2011) marked only by an armaments museum.

Located in another part of town is a car parts plant owned by the American Borg-Warner company, and employing approximately 300 people.

Climate
Tulle has an oceanic climate under the Köppen classification (Cfb). Rainfall is high year-round and temperature differences between seasons are larger than in coastal areas.

Government

 * Tulle is the seat of the general council of the Corrèze
 * Tulle is the seat of the agglomeration community Tulle Agglo
 * Tulle is the seat of the canton of Tulle, which consists of the commune of Tulle
 * Tulle is the prefecture of the Corrèze department

Mayors
Mayors of Tulle since 1949 were:
 * Jean Massoulier (1949–1959) for the Radicals
 * Jean Montalat (1959–1971) for the SFIO
 * Georges Mouly (1971–1977) for the RPR
 * Jean Combasteil (1977–1995) for the PCF
 * Raymond-Max Aubert (1995–2001) for the RPR
 * François Hollande (2001–2008) for the PS (elected President of the Republic in 2012)
 * Bernard Combes (2008–  ) for the PS

Politics
Tulle's MP in the National Assembly of France for nearly 15 years was the Socialist François Hollande, who was elected President of the Republic in 2012. Hollande also served as mayor of the town.

Education

 * Normal school of teachers
 * ISMIB (Higher Institute of Management of Woodworking Industries)
 * IUT of Nouvelle-Aquitaine: departments Health, Safety and Environment (HSE) and Industrial Engineering and Maintenance (GIM)
 * Lycée Edmond Perrier: establishment of secondary and higher education, technologic and general (1100 pupils). The school offers a Scientific CPGE (Preparatory classes schools).
 * Institute of Nursing Education
 * Gendarmerie training school
 * CFA (Training center for apprentices) of the 13 vents

Arts and festivals

 * Festival Nuits de Nacre (accordion music) since 1984 with a strong notoriety
 * Festival O'les choeurs (music, theater and exhibitions) since 1997
 * Festival Du bleu en hiver (jazz, rock and blues music)
 * International festival of lace
 * Photographic Art Festival

Museums

 * Museum of the Resistance and Deportation
 * Museum of Weapons
 * Museum of the Accordion

International relations
Tulle is twinned with:
 * Schorndorf, Germany
 * Errenteria, Spain
 * Bury, England, United Kingdom
 * Lousada, Portugal
 * Smolensk, Russia
 * Dueville, Italy

Personalities

Tulle is the birthplace of:
 * Laurent Koscielny (b. 1985), football player
 * Éric Rohmer (1920–2010), film director
 * Marcelle Tinayre (1870–1948), woman of letters
 * Alphonse Rebière (1842–1900), science writer
 * Edmond Perrier (1844–1921), zoologist and director of the National Museum of Natural History
 * Étienne Baluze (1630–1718), scholar
 * Jean-François Melon (1675–1738), economist
 * Jacques Brival (1751–1820), French Revolutionary
 * Thomas Domingo (b. 1985), rugby player
 * Léon Eyrolles (1861–1945), politician and entrepreneur
 * Charles Silvestre (1889–1948)), writer, winner of the Prix Femina in 1926
 * Philippe Manoury (b. 1952), composer
 * Marie-Anne Montchamp (b. 1957), Secretary of State for Solidarities and Social Cohesion
 * Robert Nivelle (1856–1924), Commander-in-Chief of the French army (1916–1917)

The following people have resided in Tulle:
 * François Hollande (b. 1954), the former President of France, who was elected during the 2012 French presidential election and who previously served as Mayor of Tulle.
 * Benoît Mandelbrot (1924–2010), discoverer of fractals

title: Tulle


text:
Talk:MUD trees

Started
I did some wikification so far, but most of the links go off in slightly odd directions, so someone may need to do some disambiguation. 80.126.238.189 09:35, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Socket/NakedMud
The current MUD trees have these under DikuMUD spawned from Merc 1.0 - this is simply not true and invalid information. SocketMud was a simple C-based socket server with a limited subset of commands written from scratch with no licensing; NakedMud was a derivative adding Python scripting but keeping the generous open nature. A key, if not *THE* key, lineage indicator of Diku derivatives is the cascading non-use/credits licensing that forbid commercial usage. It's such a legacy that logging into any derivative will spam you with credits all the way back to the Diku source - which was either a badge of honor or an annoyance, depending on view. Either way, the soft-link is inappropriate - it's a separate tree and only would make sense if 'DIKU' was renamed to a category of some sort. 158.174.187.11 (talk) 09:41, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

VFD stuff
This actually isn't "Derek Snider's" MUD Tree, instead it is one he stole from the alt.muds.diku faq and was created by a poster in 1994. It has been "stolen" for use in research papers (someone actually got their doctorate with this).

 * I've never heard of an "alt.muds" hierarchy nor have I found anything to backup what you said. Perhaps you could be more specific? I know of a different, general mud tree by Martin Keegan and found a FAQ for rec.games.mud.diku, but it just had a link to the same Game.org page. Also is it that Derek Snider gave permission for the tree to be GFDLed or that you don't think he can copyright it?

 * State on the Votes for deletion page why you don't think this page should be deleted. There's nothing wrong with the intent of this article -- something on the relationship between MUD codebases would make a great addition to the MUD article (or even a good article on its own). An unexplained ASCII tree isn't very informative but that can be fixed. I just have a problem with its copyright status and the only evidence presented says "DikuMud Heirarchy (c)1995-2000 Derek Snider". --Mrwojo 01:10, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Deletion

 * MUD trees - an example but no content or explanation - Texture 17:28, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. It's also an exact copy from the site it lists in ext. links ("DikuMud Heirarchy (c)1995-2000 Derek Snider"). --Mrwojo 17:54, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, for same reasons as above. Psychonaut 18:02, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Its fate should be the same as Dikumud. I vote to merge them. Mikkalai 02:41, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I disagree: Dikumud should stay regardless, but it should be at DikuMUD instead (currently a duplicate substub). --Mrwojo 03:21, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I fail to see your logic. If dikumud stays, then its tree definitely belongs there, regardless external links.

Mikkalai 16:50, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I fail to agree that the post should be deleted. I think it was a harsh decision to vote it down in the first place, when an edit may have been in order. Since "Dikumud" is not its derivatives, putting it on the Dikumud entry doesn't make sense. The "MUD Family Tree" entered into the public domain in 1993, and was posted on rec.games.mud.diku and is considered the public domain, and is NOT copyrighted to Derek Snider, as the page it is from indicates, as this was an adaptation from a previously released copy, which was copied and constructed. In fact, I believe the original tree changed hands many times before being "Claimed" (unlawfully) by Derek Snider, if that was his intent by putting (c)1994-2000 Derek Snider on his web page. Furthermore, a "MUD Family tree is not the same as the MUD itself, and would serve as a lineage / navigational tool for other entries. Ebube_Dike
 * Mikkalai, I disagreed with the idea that whatever happens to MUD trees should also happen to Dikumud since they aren't the same thing. Ebube_Dike, if a person makes changes to something in the PD then they hold the copyright to the changed version. I can't find the post you mention and you say its from the site the claims copyright. I've replaced the text with the copyright notice. --Mrwojo 07:51, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep and Wikify. Lists and schematics in this form are not copyrightable, see Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights . If anyone complains, refactor the tree into a list and then Keep. Schematics like this should be wikified and used to index topics in the wikipedia. 80.126.238.189 12:32, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Undeletion
MUD trees was the start of a decent article, not a copyvio. (see: Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights ). Shouldn't have been listed on VfD in the first place. 80.126.238.189 10:14, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * This wasn't about whether it was a copyright violation. It was listed on VfD with most votes to delete.

 * Delete: Texture, Mrwojo, Psychonaut; Merge: Mikkalai; Keep: Someone who signed User:Ebube Dike (there is no such user), and one anon IP.

 * Mikkalai's reasons for keeping it were refuted by Mrwojo and not addressed. I discounted the non-existent user, and the IP. This left 3 votes to delete. Angela. 00:28, Feb 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * Hmm, I see. I was counting like this:
 * Reasons given for votes were:
 * A. "I don't get it" . {Not a valid reason for listing on VfD} (1 vote to delete by texture)
 * B. "It's a copyvio" {Should have been listed on Possible_copyright_infringements }(2 votes to delete from Mrwojo and Psychonaut).
 * C. 1 anon IP pointing out that it's not a copyvio. Is it a specific policy to ignore people who post using just their IP even if they make valid statements? If so I'll just drop the matter here.

 * Don't know what to do with User: Ebube Dike either, leaving with 0 valid votes for deletion and 1 vote to move. Page was not listed on Possible_copyright_infringements at all. 80.126.238.189 13:05, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I've just realised that whilst there is no User:Ebube Dike, there is a User:Ebube dike, so presumably this is someone who hasn't yet learnt to sign as opposed to a fake vote. Based on that and the suggestion that the copyright violation allegations are spurious, I have reverted my deletion of the page and listed it on cleanup so others can decide whether it is copyrightable and edit it accordingly. Angela. 06:37, Feb 20, 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm switching over to a vote to keep since I don't feel that the other reasons mentioned for deleting this article were valid and, thanks to 80.126.238.189 stepping up to the plate to refute my actions, I have something to go by that says the copyright issue isn't clear. I do believe it treads a fine line on creative selection, but it would be difficult to come up with a different classification for the muds mentioned. "Why mention some and not others?" leads into my suggestion for cleanup -- I think a typical hierarchical "list of" article, such as list of MUDs by code base would better represent the article's intent:

MUD1
 * AberMUD
 * DikuMUD
 * (comprehensive list of Diku-based muds)
 * (etc.)
 * (some other mud base)
 * (and so on)

 * Also, I think the "permission was given by Derek Snider" statement should be confirmed or removed. --Mrwojo 20:31, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I hereby give my permission to use the DikuMUD tree. For the record, I did not "steal" the tree from somewhere else. Go to the DikuMUD website, and you will see a credit to me on their DikuMUD family tree. --Thoric 18:13, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Can we get someone working on the OTHER MUD bases? Diku is just one 'root', with the LPMuds also a strong community? Currently this... 'article' is rather Diku-Centric, without even mention of other 'roots'. --131.207.161.152 09:51, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Inaccuracies

 * Pirate was derived from Copper1 rather than from Diku, based on examining the source code.
 * Merc was derived from Copper1 rather than from Copper2, based on examining the source code.
 * I couldn't find any evidence for the existence of a Sequence codebase.

I fixed the first 2 errors and left the 3rd untouched for now. --Scandum (talk) 12:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

TinyMUSH 3 is a merge of the codebases of TinyMUSH 2.2 and TinyMUX 1.x. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.91.196.4 (talk) 14:10, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

MUD or codebase?
Eltanin, Fajita and Nilgiri were recently added. They're all long-dead DikuMUDs, and seem to be in the correct places on the tree, but as far as I'm aware none of them are public codebases. Does anyone know if their code was released? KaVir (talk) 22:13, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Well this is an old comment, but I see you're still commenting on other things here... :) Somewhere tucked in an archive or a disk or somewhere I have a copy of Eltanin.  I don't recall if it was ever truly downloadable-for-everyone or if it was a more limited a-copy-for-people-I-know thing though. Tarc (talk) 14:00, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

NiMUD
Having a separate article is not a requirement for inclusion in the MUD tree, perhaps you were thinking of the Chronology of MUDs. NiMUD's derivation from Merc is established in Martin Keegan's "A Classification of MUDs", among other works. If you disagree with the source/s, it can be discussed, but it is not appropriate to remove entries just to prove a point. KaVir (talk) 09:56, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

UglyMug
UglyCode (UglyMug) should be on here, derived from TinyMUD 1.4.1. I'd add it myself, but thought I'd be more likely to break it! The MBA4 and TCZ codebases were then both derived from UglyCode. 81.138.121.65 (talk) 16:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We'll need a source for it first, otherwise it'll just get removed again. KaVir (talk) 08:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Aime
The Aime MUD software should also be here, listed possibly under PDirt. It is a scratch rewrite, though written by two coders who rewrote the PDIRT zone compiler and both ran Aber-family MUDs. Kaylus (talk) 03:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you have reliable sources that show it's notable in some way? - Aoidh (talk) 04:01, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Is there a larger burden of proof for notability in the AberMud tree than the other two trees? The DikuMud tree is full of specific items Fajita, Vego, RocketMud, etc. that are not notable in the least. It appears that the "notability" of these items is simply that they existed and/or have downloadable sources? Perhaps the request should be instead that the non-notable items be removed? Kaylus (talk) 02:17, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no particular need to demonstrate notability before including an item in an article, and while the request for reliable secondary sources was proper, the reason given was not. ALL the trees would benefit from additional WP:RS. The bottom line is that we have to abide by WP:V. Is it somehow verifiable that Aime is related to PDIRT and Aber? Even a weak source, such as a forum or Usenet post, or a primary source, such as the code itself, would be better than nothing at all. Elizium23 (talk) 02:22, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Aoidh's request for notability was confusing. Now, I'm not sure about the adding of this. The information I have is that the sourcecode is available, the authors of the source code are the same authors of Pdirt. Pdirt code is located at http://www.mudbytes.net/file-9 and the documentation underneath references Marty as the developer, the documentation for AIME collaborates this http://aime.sourceforge.net/concept.html while the code itself shows similar. Marty is also credited on multiple Abersites. The oldest remaining Aber repository (a tripod page) backs up this: http://abermud.tripod.com/news4.html and http://abermud.tripod.com/mudstuff.html - though also notes the differences, stating "pDirt, authored by Marty at Darkscapes (formerly Eradicated Worlds 2) makes an attempt to change the standard format on how zones are written." and "A new type of source code by Slate and Marty. It is yet to be determined if this should be classified as a new off-shoot of Abermud or its own animal." respectively. It also converted PDIRT formats into itself: http://sourceforge.net/p/aime/mailman/message/1714976/ Kaylus (talk) 02:48, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I further realized Pdirt is not even listed! This is a direct descendant of Dyrt 1.2; see my last comment for the source code. Subdir docs/pdirt.doc explains lineage. AIME — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.153.103.10 (talk) 04:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I mentioned notability because it's relevant; just because something can be verified doesn't mean it belongs on an article. Unless there is some kind of third-party source, it does not belong in the article. I'm not suggesting it needs to meet WP:GNG, but a single third-party source is generally expected in list-type articles such as this. Elizium23 is incorrect, a forum post would not be better than nothing at all, such a source would not be reliable in the slightest. - Aoidh (talk) 21:12, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You cite Verifiability but that does not say a thing about notability. I can also cite WP:NOT, e.g., Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and WP:DUE, i.e., weight of included items should be proportionate to their coverage in WP:RS, but this is still not about notability, while WP:GNG is, and you are correct on that count, the item in question does not need to pass GNG or any other kind of notability threshold.
 * I am not incorrect about the forum post, or in this case, source code; I merely neglected to mention all the caveats attached. A self-published source can be reliable for information about themselves, as long as the following criteria are met:

 * 1) the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim;
 * 2) it does not involve claims about third parties;
 * 3) it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the source;
 * 4) there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity;
 * 5) the article is not based primarily on such sources.
 * It seems to me that the source code in question meets these criteria and would be valid self-published sources. Of course, if there is any chance they could be replaced by a reliable, secondary source, that opportunity should be taken, but I understand that in the MUD world, there are not a lot of books or newspaper articles written, particularly about this corner of the topic. Elizium23 (talk) 21:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Therein lies the problem, anyone can write source code, that doesn't mean every piece of code needs to be mentioned on Wikipedia (as longstanding consensus has shown, the talk page of List of PDF software immediately comes to mind). If no sources have mentioned a particular topic, Wikipedia shouldn't either. A forum post is not acceptable as a source, with very, very few exceptions. Notability perhaps isn't the correct word, but relevance is; relevance is determined by reliable sources. If the only sources are from the software's source itself, there's very little need to mention it on Wikipedia. - Aoidh (talk) 21:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Question: Replace based diagrams with Graphviz (or PlantUML) diagrams(s)
To get a better overview I created a version of the family trees in Graphviz. Is this something that could be interesting to replace the current table based diagrams with?

This example combines ALL trees but they could just as easily be split out (as is currently the case)

title: Talk:MUD trees


text: Talk:Tulle

title: Talk:Tulle


text:
User talk:Alexdi

File:FleetLaxitive.JPG listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:FleetLaxitive.JPG, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. --Minorax «¦talk¦» 04:02, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

title: User talk:Alexdi