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Talk:List of closed railway stations in Melbourne

Reach

 * Pic Nic (closed July 19, 1898) - original terminus of what is today the Lilydale and Belgrave lines

I propose that the main list be kept only for electric-era closed stations (post-1919 servicing electric trains). The reason for this is that the mother-page, List of Melbourne railway stations, only covers the electric network. Stations like the above, ought to be differentiated. The problem is that vast tracts of the pre-1919 system no longer exist, so once you start listing those stations, it would be a very long process. Also, some of today's stations are rebuilt versions of those old stations, (in slightly different positions). Should old versions of current stations be included (such as the original low-level Richmond station, the at-grade Camberwell station, etc., be listed too? Or are they not technically "closed", just "redeveloped"?

Another point I just noticed: does anyone know if the Mont Park Asylum station and line branch were ever open to public access? It doesn't seem like a common destination. If not, should it be listed? Same for any other private stations.

 * I've been basing this list on the London equivalent, which lists stations that closed in the late 1800s. I think we should be listing those here - but only within what is today the MET. This would include the Inner Circle and Outer Circle lines. Other routes could go in a regional article if it comes to that. I'd include the stations that have been redeveloped under the same name in a similar location (in most cases) in a section in the main station's article.

 * As far as I know, the Mont Park Asylum branch was. But I don't think we should be making judgements as to how often stations get used. A lot of these weren't used heavily, like General Motors - but they still make for interesting articles. Ambivalenthysteria 12:02, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * It might still be worth differentiating between electric-service stations and steam-era stations. And just a nitpick, but the Met hasn't existed for over half a decade now!

 * Well, the page is called "List of closed Melbourne railway stations" rather than "List of closed electrified Melbourne railway stations". I changed "Closed Stations" to "Closed Electrified Stations" and the other headings - "Converted to light Rail", "Closed Locomotive Lines", "Greater Metropolitan", and "Proposed but never constructed" pretty much disambiguate them from the electric lines - though you may want to put the ones that were built prior to the electrification, and the ones built since, under separate big headings if you wish. I don't think (at this stage) we have enough stations to justify 2 separate lists though.

 * Personally, I think both the pre-electrification lines, as well as some that were seriously proposed but never built, are perhaps of greater interest than the stations that were closed after electrification. And in some cases there was even work ready. Take the extra high light pylons in the median strip of the Eastern Freeway to Bulleen Road, and the wider median strip (built with the East Doncaster Train Line in mind). And the Rosstown and the Inner / Outer Circle lines are certainly of interest.

 * As for Mont Park, check an old Melways - the State Library has some. It was there. In fact, MacLeod is a 3 platform station. Platform one ends abruptly, and yet the line continues past the barrier. One day, after a day at La Trobe University, I decided to follow it. Now in the past few years a lot of the former Mont Park Assylum site has been sold off and reduced to being the North Eastern Mainstreamed Psychiatric Service. But certainly - as of the late '90s - there were still pylons chopped off about a foot off the ground and verious other bits of debris heading north east through the YMCA site and Harry Pottage reserve. And given that guests, staff, and mainstreamed patients would all have had to go there, it would not really surprise me if there was a general public service there, though this is just speculation. Though it did exist. - AJ (AmishThrasher)
 * How about making the first list closed stations on open lines (which could include both modern stations like General Motors, and old stations like Pic Nic), and then having a seperate section for closed lines, and the stations that were on them? Ambivalenthysteria 21:29, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

By the way, as far as I know, Williamstown Racecourse was on a seperate branch - not on the main Williamstown line. Ambivalenthysteria 16:02, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

For reference, here is a list of closed stations in and near Melbourne I've found: http://www.railpage.org.au/ausrail/99may/msg00106.html Problem is it doesn't indicate what stations are suburban, mainline, etc, except that they're all from lines still operating. I'm looking for more basic information before adding them (those not already added that is). Hypernovean 11:10, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * It's a useful resource - it's what I've been using to build the articles I've written. I'll have to get down to the State Library soon and start going through books, but I've been busy lately. I like the additions that have been made to this article - nice work.

 * http://pigfish.vic.cmis.csiro.au/~ajw/VRMaps/ is another useful resource - gives maps of the rail system every 10 years from 1860 to 2000. Alas, some stations have opened and closed in between maps, and it can be a bit confusing. I still haven't managed to work out a complete list of Inner Circle, Outer Circle, and Rosstown stations.

 * Anyone mind if I re-add Pic Nic to the list? Also, wasn't Cremorne on a line that is still open, and if so, wouldn't that go in the first list? Ambivalenthysteria 22:05, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Regards the Inner Circle line, the list of stations I've put in for that is the complete list - there were only 3. I got it from http://www.aattc.org.au/Times%20October%202001W.pdf (last page). Hypernovean 04:37, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Ugh. That map just doesn't want to load. I hate Acrobat. Still, now that I look more closely at the maps I mentioned above, you're basically right. However, the 1890 map mentions "Scotchmere St.", on the Fitzroy branch - but it isn't on the 1900 map. Ambivalenthysteria 07:49, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Puffing Billy was closed as a regular passenger service some time ago, but is still open as a tourist service. Does it deserve any mention here? It's not technically closed, only operating a different service. Hypernovean 07:51, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. It's not on the mainstream system, but it's still in operation. Ambivalenthysteria 12:09, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Okay, what exactly do we mean by "closed"? Do we mean closed as a commuter / freight service? Or closed as in "a bunch of tracks rotting in a field somewhere"? Because Puffing Billy, the Mornington Peninsula Tourist Railway, and the Healesville Tourist railway are, at this point, glorified museum exhibits, effectively run as a hobby. However, they were in full active service at one point. So, to me, that would justify some sort of mention on the closed railway page... AJ

 * Good point. Perhaps we could have a 'converted to tourist railway' section here. I wonder if this would be worth an article in itself - 'tourist railways in victoria/australia'? It's not too hard to define here, but I'm not looking forward to working out the answers to these when I get around to adding more to the regional stations article. Ambivalenthysteria 13:28, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Does anyone know whether the closed Warburton line was electrified, I think I heard that it was but I want to check. Also, does anyone know if there was a station on the Healesville line at Healesville Sancturary? (As there is a 'station' listed on the line here on the ancient network map in Melbourne Central across from platform 4). Also on Parliament's ancient map, a branch is shown from Camberwell (or maybe East Camberwell) to 'Kew - Deepdene'. Sounds like the Outer Circle but as far as I'm aware it was only electrified south to Alamein. These are all mysteries, but I want to see if anyone here knows anything about them first. Hypernovean 13:11, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * I'd ask at the aus.rail newsgroup. They're the people who would know. :) Ambivalenthysteria 06:17, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * The Warburton line was never electrified. Philip J. Rayment 8th July 2004

I just did a bit of digging, and found that the Mont Park Asylum line was freight-only. Remove? Ambivalenthysteria 09:29, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Since when was it the List of closed Melbourne passenger-only railway stations? I think it can stay, just be indicated as freight.Hypernovean 10:44, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * But then there's so many freight-only places, sidings, etc...do we want to get into those as well? So far, they've all been stations that have been passenger at one point or another. Ambivalenthysteria 10:58, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, was it a station with a platform do you know? I guess if it wasn't, it can go. Although later on maybe a freight-station table could be tacked on if more were found. Hypernovean 11:11, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Hm, that's a hard thing to know without seeing pictures. Speaking of which, if you're in Melbourne, have you been to the museum down in Williamstown? I've been meaning to see what they have that might help us (both in information there and in books), and also the State Library, but I haven't had a chance to get down there lately. I should be able to in a week or two though. Ambivalenthysteria 00:59, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Mont Park was an electrified good-only line, although it did have passenger trains in the form of troop trains during WWII, I think it was. Philip J. Rayment 8th July 2004

What's the story with those two government lines? I've never heard of them. Ambivalenthysteria 08:35, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I found out about them on the Railway Archaeology forum at RailPage Aus. I don't know what kind of vehicles were used on them, except that the East End line was horse-drawn originally, but as it made it to the 60's I assume it became mechanized at some stage, so could be called a (short) railway. The mail-rail, however, I didn't find out anything other than where it is. It may not have been mechanized? Will require more research. Hypernovean 12:42, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Page name?
I'm probably speaking out of line here, as I haven't edited this page at all, nor read the talk page in great detail, but perhaps the page name could be changed to "History of Melbourne railways" or something similar? --Chuq 06:31, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * That would be a good page to have, but as a seperate one from this I think, because there are so many closed stations/lines they deserve their own page. The history page would invlove the development of the existing network probably, and would be the next stage in the Melbourne railways work. Hypernovean 06:46, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * It's not a history of Melbourne railways. It's a list of closed stations. There's certainly a need for an article on the former, and I've collated information to write a fairly good article on at least the early part of that history, but it doesn't belong in with this one. Ambivalenthysteria 13:08, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Queries
Has anyone heard of this 'Gardens' station on the Williamstown line before? I've never heard it mentioned, anywhere, until I saw it on here, which makes me a little bit suspicious, particularly considering it suggests that it only closed in the 1980s. If no one has any proof of its existence, I'll remove it.

Secondly, should Sydenham be listed here? It's a hard call as to whether we just mention it as a moved station in the Watergardens article, or give it an article of its own.

Thirdly, I'm undecided about Stopping Place 16. There were a lot of these - should we list them all? I'm inclined to lean towards mentioning it in the Mornington article, and not here. Ambivalenthysteria 07:47, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I believe that 'Gardens' is a plaftform in the Newport workshops, branching off from the Williamstown line. If there was a station outside the Workshops called Gardens, I don't know, but I'm guessing that is the one - if so, it must still be open as its shown in the latest Melway. As for Sydenham, I don't think there would be enough info for a seperate article - just mention it at Watergardens and Sydenham line. There may be a few other stations in a similar situation... As for SP16, was this the original Mornington station, or something else? as it says it was replaced with the modern Mornington station. There certainly is some history about the old station, so if this is it, it could be renamed (Old) Mornington station or somesuch, with a seperate page on the new, if it deserves it, otherwise, just a mention of both stations in the one article. If SP16 is something else entirely, I say, if it wasn't a passenger station with at least one platform, drop it. TPK 08:03, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Re: 'Gardens'. That makes some sense. I'll take it out, then, as the branch to the Newport Workshops is already mentioned somewhere else. I agree on Sydenham/Watergardens, so I'll make that change as well. But I'm really not sure about SP16 - I can't say I know very much about the Mornington line.

 * Also, how about changing the location field from being a vague indicator of area (such as north of Foo station), to putting a specific street, or if that isn't available, some sort of other, more specific indicator of location. Ambivalenthysteria 08:42, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Definately, particularly the more historic sites which might be something to see on a rail-trail. I also have to bring up the question of whether a lot of these stations deserve articles at all? Definately, the currently open stations need articles, as they can prove useful for people navigating the city, but a lot of the closed stations (particularly the ones from mid last century onwards, that have been demolished, and which were on a still open line) don't have much history to them as they weren't very special when they were open. Certainly there are closed stations that need articles, and the ones that already have them have some meat to them, but does every single closed station need an article? A lot of the possible info on them is summed up in the table here already, or sometimes there isn't even that. TPK 11:34, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't know about that. For some of these, there won't be much. But there's quite a few people interested in their history, and if we can collate whatever information is known about any of these, then someone who searches Google can find it easily, without having to hunt around through all sorts of sources. I think I've been able to gather reasonably good articles on General Motors, Paisley, Galvin and White City, for instance. I could probably, with a bit more information, come up with similar length articles on several more (depending on which ones have been covered in books, and whether I can get my hands on them). And for some of the older ones, such as Botanic Gardens and Salt Water River, for which information is really scarce, surely it can't hurt to bring together what is known, even if it isn't very much. Ambivalenthysteria 11:53, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Who added the opening date for the Warburton line? As it's clearly wrong (apparently it opened thirty years after it closed). Ambivalenthysteria 02:44, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I have the odd feeling they may be reversed... TPK 02:53, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Ho-hum, and look where they turned up: 00:42, 6 Apr 2004 Ambivalenthysteria (Adding in lots of dates.) Gotcha! TPK 02:57, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh dear. I didn't think I'd added that. Must go look up where I messed up. Ambivalenthysteria 04:51, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I've done a few things today. Fixed the Warburton date, removed the Converted Stations section (as none of them were, per se, converted to "tram stations" - they were simply either demolished or reused for other purposes), and moved those to the main section, and found exact addresses for all of those that I could find in the first edition Melways (which is all of those since 1960, except the far-flung lines such as Whittlesea). I hope no one minded about removing the Converted Stations section - it didn't seem to make much sense anyway. Anyone have any ideas as to where we might find the locations of stations that closed before then? Ambivalenthysteria 12:41, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Other thank looking for street name remnants such as 'Railway St' or 'Station St', I can't think of any simple way other than digging around. Speaking of street names, regarding Williamstown Racecourse, there is a Racecourse Rd besides the Altona-bound track near Kororoit Creek, which suggests the station was on this little stretch of track, or somewhere nearby. As for the converted stations, it does make more sense to put them in the main list and make use of the Current Status column. TPK 11:48, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Williamstown Racecourse was on its own branch using the junction that is now Altona Junction (i.e. off the Geelong line). Later, the Altona Beach line diverged from the Williamstown Racourse line near the throat of Williamstown Racecourse station.  When the Racecourse station closed, the branch became the Altona branch.  The station itself was on the east side of the existing Altona line just south of Kororoit Creek Road.  Last time I was there a few years ago you could still see some stanchion bases sticking very high out of the ground, as they used to be at platform level.  The racecourse itself was on the other side of the creek. Philip J. Rayment 8th July 2004

Unbuilt and proposed stations and line extension
Several additional train lines, or extensions to existing lines, and stations were, at various times, seriously considered - to the point that they were even printed on Hitachi train destination rolls. However, they were never constructed, and you could consider them 'closed' before the first piece of track was laid (some of the old plans are now currently being discuss by the Transport Network). Some of these lines include:

Lines

 * East Doncaster line (along the median of the Eastern Freeway - this proposal has recently been resurrected however, no definite plans or decisions have been made)
 * Rowville line - (same situation as East Doncaster proposal - to the extension of the Glen Waverley line)
 * South Morang line - (extension of Epping line to South Morang)

Stations

 * Cave Hill station (to be built between Mooroolbark and Lilydale)
 * Coldstream (an extension of overhead power lines along the Lilydale line)
 * Deer Park West (along Melton greater metropolitan line)
 * Baxter (electrification up to this station of Stony Point line)

I've stored this here as it really has no place in this article, so until List of proposed Melbourne railway stations or whatever is made, it can wait here. Does anyone think the Rebuilt stations should stay here? It's more in place than the Unbuilt, but it doesn't really seem like a worthy list of its own, and then again, it doesn't seem quite right here, either. TPK 12:04, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * It's not an exact fit, but I think it's alright here, in it's current form. It's useful, but wouldn't really work as an article, and there's not really any other place to put it.

 * Are there any other proposed stations/lines worth mentioning? Ambivalenthysteria 12:19, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * There's quite a list of stations and extensions of lines; this list is very short. A lot of them are only 'pipe dream' propsals though, which begs the question of whether there should be some threshold of likelihood for what is listed... There are only 2 new lines proposed as far as I'm aware, though. TPK 13:13, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I'd be happy to write the article, but I'd like to have a list of a fair few on hand before I go about it. I think we should list most of them, as long as they're not entirely pipedreamish (like the Geelong suburban network I once saw suggest in aus.rail). Ambivalenthysteria 13:15, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I had a go at creating it. Any thoughts? Ambivalenthysteria 00:41, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Photos
Is there any chance that any of you would be able to get a picture of General Motors station for that article? I'd go take it myself, but it's too far to walk from either Dandenong or Hallam, and there doesn't appear to be any way to get to it by other public transport. Ambivalenthysteria 09:14, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I know we now have a photo of it on Wikipedia, but anyway: If anyone is thinking of getting there via Public Transport, don't. The only way to get there via public transport is to get off at either Dandenong or Hallam stations, walk all the way to Princes Hwy, walk down Progress St to the other side of the crossing [which has no pedestrian gates], walk down a 1km track then do the normal business of walking on the tracks and climbing up onto one of the derelict platforms (then doing that again to go between platforms, as the pedestrian bridge is now fenced off). The only way to get there is by road - there is no bus route that goes nearby, and it's in an isolated location. Somebody in the WWW 06:59, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Warburton
I thought I'd read somewhere that this was electified, but it would probably make more sense if it wasn't. Ambi 12:23, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm fairly certain it wasn't too, though I assumed it was at one stage. TPK 13:32, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You've done a fantastic job with redoing the table and all that - it looks a lot better, and will be much easier to edit in future, I'm sure. Ambi 13:46, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Paisley and Coldstream
Does anyone know for sure the current status of either of these sites? We've currently got Paisley listed as having the platforms still intact, and Coldstream listed as being simply abandoned. I've been looking through the photo galleries on RailPage. With this, it's a bit hard to tell if there's anything at all left at Paisley, while this makes it seem as if the station buildings are gone at Coldstream. Ambi 08:35, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * From what I can gather, Paisley's island platform still exists, but is overgrown by weeds, other than that, there isn't anything remaining. As for Coldstream, I believe the station building was destroyed by fire. I'm not sure if that was before or after that section of the Healesville line closed, so the station may have originally simply been abandoned. TPK 10:42, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Ah, thanks. I've updated the list to reflect that. Ambi 13:59, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I took a look at Coldstream not a long time ago. There is one old platform remaining. There is no building there, and a lot of track is covered up by grass. The tracks still go through the road at Station St Coldstream (former level xing), but there is no longer a sign marking that.

 * I haven't seen Paisley myself, but from the info on http://www.vicrailstations.netfirms.com, there is an old platform (former island platform), and a filled-in subway/access ramp located at the site. Somebody in the WWW 03:52, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Narambi/Narrambi/Narambi Road/Narrambi Road
What is the actual name of this place? I've seen all four names and spellings used. Ambi 07:26, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Where have you see the different spellings? The station had very little documentation, so it would be hard to determine the correct spelling for certain.
 * My source (which is what I based the article name change on) is the amendment I made to my Working Timetable at the time that the station opened, which was from the W.T.T. circular issued by the railway. I had Narrambi Road, and that is what I've always understood it to be.  I do note that (a) Melway shows Narambi, but although Melway is pretty good, it's not authoritative in this area (and has been known to be wrong--it once had Holden for General Motors!) and (b) that Melway has the adjacent road, after which the station is named, spelled with one "r".  But my Working Timetable amendment is clearly with two "r"s and with the word "Road".
 * I have my doubts that the station name ever appeared in the Weekly Notice, but if so, it would be interesting to see what it has. One other place that it does apparently appear (but I don't have a copy) is Suburban Tickets of the Victorian Railways by H. K. Atkinson.
 * In short, I have no doubt that "Road" is part of the name. I also have no doubt that the name was spelled with two "r"s on the railway's W.T.T. circular.  The only question is whether or not that circular had it spelled correctly, but that raises the question of who decided the spelling in the first place, and whether any other documentation exists that disagrees with the W.T.T. circular.  A photo of the nameboard on the platform would be interesting, although station nameboards have been known to be wrong before!
 * Philip J. Rayment 11:19, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's good to know - thanks very much for the detailed response! Ambi 11:44, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The station was cannibalised and there's very little left, definitely no nameboards! One thing that comes to mind is to contact the Mornington railway preservation group, because they most likely have the most historic information of anyone, and the station is/was on the line they now operate. I'll look for an email address or something. T.PK 21:45, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Why do you think I said "a photo of the nameboard"?? :-) But perhaps MRPS has the original nameboard? Philip J. Rayment 22:47, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * OK, well I've sent an email and we'll just have to wait and see if they have any information, and/or nameboards :) On another topic, I've found a great site for station photos here, and I'll try and contact whoever took them for use on WP. (I contacted someone who had a great collection of photos of General Motors a while ago, but never got a response...) T.PK 23:55, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that link, TPK - that looks like a fantastic site. It be wonderful if we could do a bit of cooperating with them (and even if not, it'll take me forever to just browse through them). Ambi 00:02, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Speak of the Devil, I just got a reply from the General Motors guy! And yes, we have some photos for that article now, anything from here (any suggestions on which one is best?). He's also agreed to let us use any other photos from the rest of his site, which covers quite a few stations. T.PK 00:22, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh, you are brilliant! No more trying to take these photos myself - yay! :) Ambi 00:52, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * You could also try to ask the guy from http://www.vicrailstations.netfirms.com for permission to use his photos (Photos of most railway stations in Vic., inc. closed ones - some of his pictures are down due to web hosting problems). His Railpage username is something like "Rossco T.", and his email address is on the site. Then we would be able to display photos of most of the closed stations. Somebody in the WWW 03:56, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Has anyone contacted this guy? This would be fantastic. Not only does he have a great range of material on the closed stations, but he's also a vastly better photographer, so it'd be nice to be able to use his material on the open ones as well. Ambi 04:24, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I've been chatting with him by email relating to his pictures, but haven't asked him for permission as I'm not good at writing permission requests. Maybe someone else can send him an email about possibly getting permission to use his photos. Somebody in the WWW 06:26, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Has anyone else emailed him about getting permission? If not, I might email him tonight. Somebody in the WWW 03:47, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * That'd be wonderful, but just one thing - it'd be even better if he could be convinced to release his photos under the GFDL. It may be too much to ask (although he'd still get basically the same credit), but the days of non-free images here are probably numbered, and it'd be nice to know that we'd be able to not have to worry about taking our own photos again. Ambi 04:41, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * He finally got back to me. He didn't agree to licence them under the GFDL, but he said we can use any of his photos as long as he is referenced/credited. I think we could have something like this for the blanket pages of his photos:
 * Photo by Ross T. -- Somebody in the WWW 06:37, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for organising all this. These will be far superior to the alternatives at the other site. :) Ambi 06:43, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Photos
Ok, lets branch this off into a seperate discussion. As well as the Metfink ones and the Vicrailstations ones, we can also get some photos from here, which according to are public domain as long as the photographer is credited. Somebody in the WWW 02:45, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Regarding Metfink, he did agree that any of the GMH photos could be used, as well as photos from the rest of his site, but please don't use too many, as the agreement (or my understanding of it) was that we could use any, but not all, photos from his site. He also has a metf2ink website which has much higher quality pictures, but I am not sure if we could use anything other than the GMH photos (one of which I've uploaded from there). But as we get more sources for pictures, it won't be much of a problem. T.PK 04:12, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I haven't used many of his photos, and on some pages (ie: Laburnum railway station, Melbourne I've replaced his photos with photos from other sources (including some taken by me). Somebody in the WWW 06:44, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I think we are going to have to delete the metfink and other non-free images we're using. Someone has just added Image:Aircraft-metfink.jpg to WP:PUI (as ), and now it is probably going to be deleted. Anyone here willing to go out and take some GFDL/PD photos on their own? Somebody in the WWW 02:05, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Damnit. I knew they weren't going to last forever, but I didn't realise they were already being deleted. I've had bad luck lately in that every time I'm near a station, I either don't have my camera, or the conditions are too overcast or dark to take a good shot. I guess I just got lucky the day I did the Alamein line. If we can get a decent day in the next couple of weeks, I might go down for the day and spend it doing one of the longer ones. Ambi 02:54, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * We could probably get the vicrailstations ones up as, as vicrailstations (Ross) said that he doesn't mind other sites using his photos as long as he is credited. Could we get away with that, or would that just get deleted? I have some photos of some stations, but I don't really want them released under the GFDL as Wikipedia forces for images you hold copyright on (I would prefer to use another free licence). Somebody in the WWW 09:33, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * That wouldn't work, either. I've seen a bunch of noncommercial images on that image deletion page. What license were you thinking of licensing your photos under? If it's a more stringent license, then you're out of luck, but if it's a more lenient license, then multilicensing is easy enough...User:Dysprosia licenses hers under some obscure one that I've never heard of. Ambi 10:19, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'd love to go on some photo touring, but the digital camera we just got is conviently with my brothers in New Zealand for a month... As for metfink, I could ask if he (or she? I've always just assumed) would be willing to release the pictures we're using under the GFDL or similar, but I doubt it. I'm fairly certain he/she wants to keep his/her copyright. T.PK 08:54, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I guess we'll just have to get busy ourselves. Alternatively, another solution may be to post about this situation on Railpage. While the serious collectors like Metfink and Ross may be unwilling to license theirs under the GFDL, we may be able to get some more amateurish gunzels who'd be willing to. Ambi 10:19, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Try posting on Railpage then. may help. Somebody in the WWW 10:25, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Narambi reply
OK, I got a reply from the MRPS - as far as they know, it was only ever called "Narambi", one "r", and no "Road", and was only a stopping place, not a station proper. I would say that the MRPS is the "official" source on the Mornington line nowadays, so I'd tend towards sticking with what they say. T.PK 07:33, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Whilst the MRPS may be the "official" source on the Mornington line nowadays, the Victorian Railways were the "official" source at the time that the station was opened (and closed), and in at least the source I referred to, it was "Narrambi Road". I would only consider the MRPS opinion (and it sounds to be nothing more definite than that) as valid if they had some VR documentation (such as the actual station nameboard) that contradicted my source, and even then it would be a case of two "official" documents from the same source contradicting each other, which would then still leave the question of which which one is the correct official name.
 * I agree on the stopping place bit, though. Philip J. Rayment 03:24, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Recent article in the Age's summerA2 section
Did you guys see that? I read it and considered keeping it for WP, but you're obviously ahead of the Age anyway. ;) I think this might be it: pfctdayelise 06:21, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The picture of Deepdene station would be nice. It is probably out of copyright, too, considering the station closed in 1927. The suggestions about lines that might be reopened in the future are interesting, too, but I think we've already got the rest. :) Ambi 07:02, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Article name change
from reading this article i was thinking the name is abit miss leading, the article also covers closed lines and rebuilt stations, perhaps somthing along the line of List of closed Melbourne rail infustructure would work better? also is it possible to archive some of this talk page? --Dan027 12:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think that's necessary. It is, primarily, a list of closed stations, but also provides the list of closed lines for context. Rebecca 05:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The article atleast requires some revision, i have plans to do this in the future, before i started on it the name change might be benificial, it might not fit the article in its current form, but why cant it in the future?, just from using it myself ive found it very hard to read, why do we need to have a closed line then the stations from that line in seperate boxes? this could be solved by adding acouple of extra collums into one of them, then merging them together? im not 100% sure what would work but in its current state it does my head in. --Dan027 10:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't see why. It sets out the lines that have closed as an overview, and then goes through the stations in chronological order, being a list of stations. I would personally find the alternative much more confusing (For one, it doesn't take into account the number of stations on still-open lines that have closed). Rebecca 03:14, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Elsternwick-Oakliegh Line
I'm not sure where this line started or ended (or when), but there was a train line that went through Ormond (west to east). In the map below you can see a strip of park land between Princes Park and EE Gunn (the park just North of North Rd and adjacent to the frankston train line). This park land was where the train line was. I think the line went out to Oakliegh. Anyone know more details?

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=-37.898579~145.02923&style=h&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shniken (talk • contribs).

 * It was the Rosstown Railway.
 * —Philip J. Rayment 04:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

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text:
Peter Goldsmith, Baron Goldsmith

Peter Henry Goldsmith, Baron Goldsmith, (born 5 January 1950), is a British barrister who served as Attorney General for England and Wales and Attorney General for Northern Ireland from 2001 and 2007. His resignation, announced on 22 June 2007, took effect on 27 June, the same day that Prime Minister Tony Blair stepped down. Goldsmith was the longest serving Labour attorney general. He is currently a partner and head of European litigation practice at US law firm Debevoise & Plimpton and Vice Chairperson of the Hong Kong International Arbitration Centre.

Biography
Goldsmith was born in Liverpool, Lancashire (now Merseyside), and is of Jewish descent. He was educated at Quarry Bank School before reading law at Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge and University College London. He was called to the Bar at Gray's Inn in 1972, practising from Fountain Court Chambers in London. He took silk in 1987 and became a deputy High Court judge in 1994 and he was elected the youngest ever chairman of the Bar of England and Wales in 1995. He was raised to the peerage as a Labour peer in 1999, as Baron Goldsmith, of Allerton in the County of Merseyside. He was appointed Her Majesty's Attorney General in June 2001. One of his first acts was to discuss breaches of the injunction against publishing the whereabouts of the offenders in the murder of James Bulger. He was sworn of the Privy Council in 2002.

Goldsmith has also held a number of posts in international legal organisations, including Council Member of the International Bar Association (IBA) and of the Union Internationale des Avocats. From 1998 until his appointment as Attorney General he was co-chairman of the IBA's Human Rights Institute. Between 1997 and 2000 he was Chairman of the Financial Reporting Review Panel, a non-departmental public body responsible for enforcing financial reporting standards. In 1997 he was elected to membership of the American Law Institute and made a member of the Paris Bar.

In 1996 he founded the Bar Pro Bono Unit (now Advocate ) of which he was chairman until 2000 and remains president. He was the Prime Minister's Personal Representative to the Convention for the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

In November 2006, he visited a number of pro bono legal and criminal justice charities in Kenya, including Philemon Ministries.

In 2006, Goldsmith gave a speech at the Royal United Services Institute, calling for the closure of the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay. Goldsmith called it a "symbol of injustice", and said that it did not respect the rights of liberty or freedom.

In 2007 he won a High Court injunction against the BBC, preventing reporting of aspects of the New Labour Cash-for-Honours scandal by successfully arguing a broadcast of confidential information would have harmed a police inquiry.

Al-Yamamah arms deal controversy
In 2007, Goldsmith was accused of attempting to cover up the BAE-Saudi corruption case by ordering the Serious Fraud Office to call off its ongoing investigation into the matter, arguing that it might "compromise national security."

He later admitted that the MI6 had never possessed intelligence that Saudi Arabia planned to cut security links with Britain.

Invasion of Iraq controversy
The nature of Goldsmith's legal advice to the government over the legality of the 2003 invasion of Iraq was a significant political issue at the time.

The government turned down repeated calls to break with tradition and have the advice made public. Goldsmith's original memo to the prime minister written on 30 January 2003 opined that UN Resolution 1441 did not sanction the use of force and that a further resolution would be required before military action. A subsequent memo written on 7 March 2003 was eventually leaked to the press, which led to its official publication on 28 April 2005. In the memo, Lord Goldsmith discussed whether the use of force in Iraq could legally be justified by Iraq's 'material breach', as established in UN Security Council Resolution 1441, of its ceasefire obligations as imposed by Security Council Resolution 687 at the end of the First Gulf War. Goldsmith concluded that “a reasonable case can be made that resolution 1441 is capable in principle of reviving the authorisation [of the use of force] in Resolution 678 without a further resolution.” However, Goldsmith did concede that “a court might well conclude that operative paragraphs 4 and 12 do require a further Council decision to revive the authorisation.” In this memo he also concluded "the argument that resolution 1441 alone has revived the authorisation to use force in resolution 678 will only be sustainable if there are strong factual grounds for concluding that Iraq has failed to take the final opportunity. In other words, we would need to be able to demonstrate hard evidence of non-compliance and non-cooperation."

In his final advice to the government, written on 17 March 2003, Goldsmith stated that the use of force in Iraq was lawful. This advice stated Goldsmith's preferred view in more unequivocal terms than his earlier memo, without reference to the doubts expressed therein. This has led to allegations that Goldsmith succumbed to political pressure to find legal justification for the use of force against Iraq. Shortly after the leak Goldsmith released a statement in response to such allegations, saying that the two documents were consistent, pointing to the difference in the nature of the two documents and to the firm assurances he claims to have had received between 7 and 17 March that Iraq was indeed in breach of its obligations under Security Council resolutions.

The controversy was heightened by the resignation of Elizabeth Wilmshurst, deputy legal adviser at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, on 20 March 2003. A full version of her letter of resignation became public in March 2005. In this, Wilmshurst stated that the reason for her resignation was that she did not agree with the official opinion that the use of force in Iraq was legal. She also accused Goldsmith of changing his view on the matter. In the course of her testimony to the Iraq Inquiry commission, Wilmshurst, even though she understood that "Goldsmith was put into an impossible position", expressed her disapproval of the way Goldsmith set about in formulating his eventual opinion. She said she thought "the process that was followed in this case was lamentable," adding that she believed "there should have been a greater transparency within [the British] government" about the "evolving legal advice." On the efforts of the Attorney General to determine the nature of the alleged Iraqi breaches, she expressed her disapproval of Goldsmith relying, in part, for his legal opinion, "on private conversations he had with British and US negotiators on what the French [negotiators] had said," while "of course, he hadn't asked the French themselves."

In November 2008, the former Lord Chief Justice and Senior Law Lord Lord Bingham of Cornhill stated that Goldsmith's advice contained "no hard evidence" that Iraq had defied UN resolutions "in a manner justifying resort to force" and that the invasion was "a serious violation of international law and of the rule of law."

Goldsmith gave evidence to the Iraq Inquiry on 27 January 2010, in which he was asked to explain his position on the legality of the invasion of Iraq.

In July 2017, former Iraqi general Abdulwaheed al-Rabbat launched a private war crimes prosecution, in the High Court in London, asking for Goldsmith, Tony Blair and former foreign secretary Jack Straw to be prosecuted for "the crime of aggression" for their role in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The High Court ruled that, although the crime of aggression was recognised in international law, it was not an offence under UK law, and, therefore, the prosecution could not proceed.

Present position
Goldsmith has been appointed head of European Litigation at the London office of US law firm Debevoise & Plimpton. He was the first retiring UK Attorney General ever to join a law firm. In August 2008, Goldsmith qualified as a solicitor of the Supreme Court of England and Wales to become a full equity partner of the firm (and so share in the firm's profits and acquire an ownership share in the firm). He was reported – by The Guardian newspaper on 27 September 2007 – to be remunerated at the rate of £1 million a year in his new position. The same report said that he would have expected to earn more than that if he had resumed practice at the English Bar. His former chambers are Fountain Court.

Upon leaving office, former attorneys general usually return to practise at the Bar, often at the chambers which they left upon appointment as attorney. Unlike the position with retired lord chancellors, there is no prohibition on an attorney general returning to practise at the Bar.

As a former minister and holder of public office, Goldsmith had to accept a number of restrictions on his freedom to practise for two years after leaving office. The restrictions are imposed by the prime minister on the advice of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments, a branch of the Cabinet Office.

Goldsmith's restrictions prevented him, for 12 months after leaving office, from being personally involved in lobbying government Ministers or officials. For two years after leaving office, he was required to stand aside from dealing with any matter about which he had confidential or privileged information acquired while he was Attorney General.

In August 2008, Goldsmith was appointed as an independent non-executive director of the Australian property trust, Westfield Group.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Peter Goldsmith, Baron Goldsmith


text:
User:Matt Borak/images

''I affirm to be the author and owner of the copyright of all the images here. They are released to the public domain under the GFDL.''

title: User:Matt Borak/images


text:
Lord Goldsmith

Lord Goldsmith may refer to:

 * Peter Goldsmith, Baron Goldsmith (born 1950), British barrister and Labour politician
 * Zac Goldsmith, Baron Goldsmith of Richmond Park (born 1975), British journalist and Conservative politician

title: Lord Goldsmith


text:
Komische Oper Berlin

The Komische Oper Berlin is a German opera company based in Berlin. The company produces operas, operettas and musicals.

The opera house is located on Behrenstraße, near Unter den Linden. Since 2004, the Komische Oper Berlin, along with the Berlin State Opera, the Deutsche Oper Berlin, the Berlin State Ballet, and the Bühnenservice Berlin (Stage and Costume Design), has been a member of the Berlin Opera Foundation.

History of the building
The theatre was built between 1891 and 1892 by architects Ferdinand Fellner and Hermann Helmer for a private society. It first opened on 24 September 1892 as "Theater Unter den Linden" with Adolf Ferron's operetta Daphne and Gaul and Haßreiter's ballet Die Welt in Bild und Tanz.

The theatre was primarily a vehicle for operetta, but was also used for various other events and balls. Around 800 people could be seated in the stalls, and the balconies and various en-suite dinner rooms housed about a further 1,700 seats. Its directors went bankrupt in 1896 and the theatre was forced to close its doors.

On 3 September 1898 the theatre was reopened as the Metropol-Theater (Berlin-Mitte) with Julius Freund's revue Paradies der Frauen. It then grew to become one of Berlin's most famous and successful variety theatres. During the 1920s and early 1930s, it was leased by the brothers Alfred and Fritz Rotter. Under their management, it saw the premieres of two operettas by Franz Lehár – Friederike (opera) in 1928 and Das Land des Lächelns in 1929, both starring Richard Tauber. However, due to a decline of variety and music hall entertainment the theatre was again closed in 1933.

In 1934 the theatre was nationalised and renamed Staatliches Operettentheater. It operated as part of the Nazi Kraft durch Freude entertainment and leisure programmes. During World War II, the auditorium was damaged by Allied bombing on 7 May 1944. The façade, entrance hall, and auditorium ceiling murals were destroyed by bombs on 9 March 1945.

After the war, the theatre was in East Germany, being that the building was in the eastern part of Berlin. Following repair works and provisional rebuilding, the theatre reopened on 23 December 1947, as the Komische Oper with Johann Strauss's operetta Die Fledermaus.

The 1950s saw various further alterations and extensions. The theatre was completely rebuilt in 1965/1966 by Architektenkollektiv Kunz Nierade, adding functional extensions and giving the theatre a completely new exterior. The theatre reopened again on 4 December 1966, with Mozart's Don Giovanni. The auditorium underwent further restoration in 1986, and the stage technology was further modernised by 1989. Today the theatre seats 1,270. Starting in August 2023, renovations began on the theatre. Over an expected period of five seasons, the company is planning for its productions to occur at alternative venues, including the Schiller Theater and an unused airport hangar at Berlin Tempelhof Airport.

The Komische Oper company
In 1947, Walter Felsenstein founded and led the resident opera company, the Komische Oper, until his death in 1975. Götz Friedrich was an assistant to Felsenstein at the company. Joachim Herz became general director after Felsenstein's death and served until 1981. Subsequently, Harry Kupfer directed the company for 21 seasons, until 2002. The company specializes in German language productions of opera, operetta and musicals. In 2007 the company won, jointly with Oper Bremen, the "Opera house of the year" award by the German magazine Opernwelt. In 2015, it received the "Opera Company of the Year" award at the International Opera Awards. From 2002 to 2012, the company's chief director and Intendant was Andreas Homoki.

In June 2008, the company announced the appointment of Barrie Kosky to succeed Homoki as its next Intendant, as of the 2012/2013 season. In October 2014, his contract with the company was extended through 2022. Since 2005, the company's managing director has been Susanne Moser. In January 2019, the company announced multiple scheduled management changes effective with the 2022–2023 season:

 * Kosky is to stand down as its Intendant at the close of the 2021–2022 season, and subsequently to continue his affiliation with the company as Hausregisseur (in-house director).
 * Moser and the company's current Operndirektor, Philip Bröking, are to become joint Intendants of the company effective with the 2022–2023 season.

From 1966 to 2004, the theatre was also home to a resident ballet company – first as the "Tanztheater der Komischen Oper", and then from 1999 as "BerlinBallett – Komische Oper". In 2004, due to budgetary problems, the separate ballet companies of Berlin's three opera houses were merged into a single company called the Staatsballett Berlin.

Past General Music Directors (GMD) of the company have included Kurt Masur, Rolf Reuter, Yakov Kreizberg, Kirill Petrenko, Carl St.Clair, Patrick Lange. and Ainārs Rubiķis. In January 2022, the company announced the appointment of James Gaffigan as its next music director, effective with the 2023–2024 season, with an initial contract of 4 years.

World premieres

 * 1967: Siegfried Matthus: Der letzte Schuß
 * 1972: Siegfried Matthus: Noch einen Löffel Gift, Liebling
 * 1985: Siegfried Matthus: Judith
 * 1991: Georg Katzer: Antigone oder die Stadt
 * 2008: Frank Schwemmer: Robin Hood
 * 2009: Christian Jost: Hamlet, Opernwelt: "Uraufführung des Jahres" (new opera of the year)
 * 2010: Pierangelo Valtinoni: Die Schneekönigin
 * 2012: Olga Neuwirth: American Lulu, commissioned in collaboration with The Opera Group London
 * 2012: Taner Akyol: Ali Baba und die 40 Räuber
 * 2013: Miloš Vacek: Des Kaisers neue Kleider
 * 2015: Elena Kats-Chernin: Schneewittchen und die 77 Zwerge (Snow White and the 77 Dwarves)

General Music Directors

 * Kurt Masur (1960–1964)
 * Géza Oberfrank (1973–1976)
 * Rolf Reuter (1981–1993)
 * Yakov Kreizberg (1994–2001)
 * Kirill Petrenko (2002–2007)
 * Carl St. Clair (2008–2010)
 * Patrick Lange (2010–2012)
 * Henrik Nánási (2012–2018)
 * Ainārs Rubiķis (2018–2023)
 * James Gaffigan (2023–present)

title: Komische Oper Berlin


text:
Attorney General of the United Kingdom

There is no position of Attorney General of the United Kingdom, as England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have different legal systems.

The term Attorney General when used in the United Kingdom may refer to:

 * Attorney General for England and Wales
 * Advocate General for Scotland
 * Attorney General for Northern Ireland

Attorney General may also refer to historic positions which no longer exist:

 * Attorney-General for Ireland, until 1921, of which the now Northern Ireland formed a part.
 * Lord Advocate, until 1999, the former position for the top legal advisor on Scots law.

Separately, there are largely ceremonial roles of:
 * Attorney-General of the Duchy of Cornwall
 * Attorney-General of the Duchy of Lancaster

title: Attorney General of the United Kingdom


text:
User talk:RagingRook

He RagingRook! Wat betekent dat nou toch precies: "Raging Rook"?!? Looks good, that Elizabeth George page! I made a link to the Dutch page. greetings db..... Dick Bos 11:28, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:RagingRook


text:
Crown Melbourne

Crown Melbourne (also referred to as Crown Casino and Entertainment Complex) is a casino and resort located on the south bank of the Yarra River, in Melbourne, Australia. Crown Casino is a subsidiary of Crown Resorts, and was the first casino of the now-international Crown brand.

Initially having opened in 1994 on the north bank of the Yarra River, Crown Melbourne relocated and re–opened on the south bank of the Yarra, in 1997. It remains one of the central features of the Southbank precinct of the Melbourne central business district. The entire complex has a space of 510,000 m2—the equivalent to two city blocks—making it the largest casino complex in the Southern Hemisphere and one of the largest in the world. The complex also hosts three hotels, Crown Towers, Crown Promenade, and Crown Metropol.

It was founded, owned and run by Lloyd Williams until taken over by Publishing & Broadcasting Limited in 1999.

Temporary location
Crown Casino opened on 30 June 1994 at the World Trade Centre on the northern bank of the Yarra River. This location was a temporary, and training, setup while construction of the proper complex occurred.

Permanent location
Crown's permanent location opened on 8 May 1997 of the southern bank of the Yarra River. It was designed by a team of architects and interior designers working in collaboration, including: Bates Smart, Perrott Lyon Mathieson and Daryl Jackson (in association).

On opening night, Actress Rachel Griffiths infamously ran through the casino topless on its opening night to protest the project.

It is one of the central features of the Southbank area in the Melbourne central business district and the Crown Towers fronts onto the waterfront as part of Southbank Promenade. Children under the age of 18 are permitted into the entertainment and shopping section of complex, but not into the gaming area or areas serving alcohol. The entire complex has a space of 510,000 m2, making it the largest casino complex in the Southern Hemisphere and one of the largest in the world.

Crown Casino has a licence for 540 table games (100 poker tables) and 2,500 poker machines.

Restaurants, bars and retail
There are several nightclubs and restaurants as well as "Kingpin" (formerly Galactic Circus), an electronic games arcade, laser tag game, bowling alley, and many luxury brands.

Restaurants

 * Conservatory
 * Koko
 * Rockpool Bar and Grill
 * Nobu Melbourne
 * The Atlantic
 * Silks
 * Bistro Guillaume

Hotels
Crown has three hotel towers:

 * Crown Towers: a skyscraper comprising a five-star luxury hotel located within the Crown Entertainment Complex. It houses 481 rooms and villas over 38 floors. Located on the banks of the Yarra River it overlooks the city centre, Kings Domain, Port Phillip and Docklands.
 * Crown Metropol: reputedly Australia's largest hotel by number of rooms. This five-star hotel houses 658 rooms across 28 floors.
 * Crown Promenade: a 465-room, 4.5-star hotel on 23 floors. It is located on the block behind Crown Towers and is connected to the main complex by a pedestrian overpass. It also houses Australia's only purpose built hotel conference facility the 'Crown Conference Centre'.

A fourth hotel, One Queensbridge, had plans for its construction approved. However, these plans fell through due to a failure to acquire financing.

Notable guests at Crown's hotels
Notable guests at the Crown Towers, Crown Metropol and Crown Promenade Hotels have included Celine Dion, Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, Kim Kardashian, Katy Perry, Nicole Kidman, Rachel Griffiths, One Direction, Keanu Reeves, Kerry Packer, Tiger Woods and Neil Murray and many other high-profile celebrities and politicians. Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, and several other tennis players often stay at the casino during the Australian Open.

The Palladium Ballroom

The Palladium at Crown is a ballroom with a seating capacity of 1500. It has played host to some of Australia's premier functions, including the annual Logie Awards, Brownlow Medal, Melbourne Victory Player of the Year Medal, Allan Border Medal, the Australian Formula One Grand Prix ball and the Melbourne Press Club Quill award for excellence in journalism.

Water features
Water features appear both inside and outside the Crown Casino complex.

Gas brigades fire show
Along the Yarra River, outside crown, there are eight towers, at night these towers shoot spheres of fire, almost 3 metres in diameter, in the air at choreographed intervals. The show occurs every hour with times of operating depending on the season of the year and do not operate in strong winds or when a total fire ban is declared.

Criminal activities

 * In 2016, eighteen employees of Crown Casino were detained by Chinese police after having been accused of resorting to gambling crimes.
 * In June 2022, the Victorian Gambling and Casino Control Commission (VGCCC) stated Crown Melbourne aided in the processing of A$164 million in transactions and earned A$32 million in income from illicit payments. The illicit payments came from Chinese gamblers and the company aided in unlawfully transferring the money out of the country. Due to this the company had been fined A$80 million.
 * In November 2022, Crown Melbourne was sanctioned with A$120 million in fines for breaches of responsible gambling legislation which had occurred for over a decade. Some of the breaches Crown was fined for included allowing its patrons to gamble for periods of over 24 hours without taking a break and the failure to stop patrons from using plastic picks to engage in auto-play on Poker Machines. The chair of the VGCCC, Fran Thorn, said that "for a long time, Crown had promoted itself as having the world’s best approach to problem gambling. Nothing could be further from the truth" and that the casino operator "prioritised revenue maximisation over its obligations to protect patrons."

The Finkelstein Royal Commission

 * The Royal Commission into the Casino Operator and Licence heavily criticised crown for a variety of illegal and unethical activities. The commission's findings of Crown include money laundering, strong ties to organised criminal networks, and found other serious problems with Crown's corporate governance among other things. Essentially, the Royal Commission made the recommendation that Crown be put under a two-year review period where they are able to keep their license to operate, but have to make major changes in order to facilitate a legal casino operation and responsible gambling. This includes the appointment of an inspector to monitor and ascertain whether money laundering, loan sharking, or illicit drug sales were taking place and exclude people when necessary.
 * The Victorian State Government accepted the recommendations made by the commission and has introduced the Casino and Gambling Legislation Amendment Bill 2021 which appoints a Special Manager to oversee all operations and decision making of Crown, establishes a new regulator known as the Victorian Gambling and Casino Control Commission which has new powers and imposes more obligations on Crown, and bans Junket operations among other things.

Thefts

 * In 2002, Thomas Mangos, a 39-year-old man from Bundoora, stole $136,000 from crown casino's Mahogany Room using a fake gun. Mangos' armed robbery occurred after he was "seduced" by the casino and lost $1 million gambling. He later turned himself into police, was charged, pleaded guilty, and was subsequently sentenced to a 5 years term of imprisonment with a 3-year non-parole period.
 * In 2013, a man with access to the video feeds from Crown's security cameras via an accomplice cheated the casino out of $33 million.

Other

 * In September 2015, Rochelle Nolan the fiancée and de facto wife of entertainer/comedian Russell Gilbert, took her own life after a battle with depression and was found deceased in one of the rooms of the hotel.

title: Crown Melbourne


text:
MARS (cipher)

MARS is a block cipher that was IBM's submission to the Advanced Encryption Standard process. MARS was selected as an AES finalist in August 1999, after the AES2 conference in March 1999, where it was voted as the fifth and last finalist algorithm.

The MARS design team included Don Coppersmith, who had been involved in the creation of the previous Data Encryption Standard (DES) twenty years earlier. The project was specifically designed to resist future advances in cryptography by adopting a layered, compartmentalized approach.

IBM's official report stated that MARS and Serpent were the only two finalists to implement any form of safety net with regard to would-be advances in cryptographic mathematics. The Twofish team made a similar statement about its cipher.

MARS has a 128-bit block size and a variable key size of between 128 and 448 bits (in 32-bit increments). Unlike most block ciphers, MARS has a heterogeneous structure: several rounds of a cryptographic core are "jacketed" by unkeyed mixing rounds, together with key whitening.

Security analysis
Subkeys with long runs of ones or zeroes may lead to efficient attacks on MARS. The two least significant bits of round keys used in multiplication are always set to the value 1. Thus, there are always two inputs that are unchanged through the multiplication process regardless of the subkey, and two others which have fixed output regardless of the subkey.

A meet-in-the-middle attack published in 2004 by John Kelsey and Bruce Schneier can break 21 out of 32 rounds of MARS.

title: MARS (cipher)


text:
Finnish National Opera and Ballet

The Finnish National Opera and Ballet (Suomen Kansallisooppera ja -baletti; Finlands Nationalopera och -balett) is a Finnish opera company and ballet company based in Helsinki. It is headquartered in the Opera House on the coast of the Töölönlahti bay in Töölö, which opened in 1993, and is state-owned through Senate Properties. The Opera House features two auditoriums, the main auditorium with 1,350, seats and a smaller studio auditorium with 300–500 seats.

History
Regular opera performances began in Finland in 1873 with the founding of the Finnish Opera by Kaarlo Bergbom. Prior to that, opera had been performed in Finland sporadically by touring companies, and on occasion by Finnish amateurs, the first such production being The Barber of Seville in 1849. However, the Finnish Opera company soon plunged into a financial crisis and folded in 1879. During its six years of operation, Bergbom's opera company had given 450 performances of a total of 26 operas, and the company had managed to demonstrate that opera can be sung in Finnish too. After the disbandment of the Finnish Opera, the opera audiences of Helsinki had to confine themselves to performances of visiting opera companies and occasional opera productions at the Finnish National Theatre.

The reincarnation of the Finnish opera institution took place about 30 years later. A group of notable social and cultural figures, led by the international star soprano Aino Ackté, founded the Domestic Opera in 1911. From the very beginning, the opera decided to engage both foreign and Finnish artists. A few years later the Domestic Opera was renamed the Finnish Opera in 1914. In 1956, the Finnish Opera was, in turn, taken over by the Foundation of the Finnish National Opera, and acquired its present name.

Between 1918 and 1993 the home of the opera was the Alexander Theater, which had been assigned to the company on a permanent basis. The home was inaugurated with an opening performance of Verdi's Aida. When the first dedicated opera house in Finland was finally completed and inaugurated in 1993, the old opera house was given back its original name, the Alexander Theater, after the Tsar Alexander II.

In 2020, in response to the COVID-19 pandemic and the cancellation of many of its planned productions, Finnish National Opera commissioned, created, and produced Covid fan tutte, a comic opera using music from Mozart's Cosi fan tutte, starring a Finnish cast and premiering in late August 2020 with social distancing restrictions. A filmed performance of the opera, with English and Finnish subtitles, is made available online worldwide through 30 March 2021.

Personnel
The Finnish National Opera has some 30 permanently engaged solo singers, a professional choir of 60 singers and its own orchestra of 120 members. The Ballet has 90 dancers from 17 countries. All together, the opera has a staff of 735.

Past music directors and chief conductors have included Armas Järnefelt (1932–36), Tauno Pylkkänen (1960–1967), Okko Kamu (1996–2000), Muhai Tang (2003–2006), and Mikko Franck (2006–2013). With the 2013–2014 season, the Finnish mezzo-soprano Lilli Paasikivi became artistic director of the company, and the German conductor Michael Güttler became principal conductor with the company. The initial contracts for both Paasikivi and Güttler were for 3 years. In August 2017, the company announced the appointment of Patrick Fournillier as its new principal guest conductor, effective with the 2017–2018 season. In December 2018, the company announced the most recent extension of Paasikivi's contract through 2023. In May 2019, the company announced the appointment of Hannu Lintu as its next chief conductor, effective from 1 January 2022 to 30 June 2026.

From 2008 to 2018, Kenneth Greve was artistic director of Finnish National Ballet. In December 2017, the company announced the appointment of Madeleine Onne as the next artistic director of Finnish National Ballet, effective August 2018.

Productions
The Finnish National Opera stages four to six premieres a year, including a world premiere of at least one Finnish opera, such as Rasputin by Einojuhani Rautavaara. Some 20 different operas in 140 performances are found in the opera's schedule yearly. The Ballet arranges some 110 performances annually. The Finnish National Opera has some 250,000 visitors a year.

title: Finnish National Opera and Ballet


text:
Paul Young

Paul Antony Young (born 17 January 1956) is an English musician, singer and songwriter. Formerly the frontman of the short-lived bands Kat Kool & the Kool Cats, Streetband and Q-Tips, he became a teen idol with his solo success in the 1980s. His hit singles include "Love of the Common People", "Wherever I Lay My Hat", "Come Back and Stay", "Every Time You Go Away" and "Everything Must Change", all reaching the top 10 of the UK Singles Chart. Released in 1983, his debut album, No Parlez, was the first of three UK number-one albums.

Young's smooth yet soulful voice belongs to a genre known as "blue-eyed soul". He won a Brit Award for Best British Male in 1985, and his hit "Every Time You Go Away" reached number one on the Billboard Hot 100 and won Best British Video at the 1986 Brit Awards. Performing on the 1984 charity single "Do They Know It's Christmas?" which included singing the opening lines, Young played Live Aid held at Wembley Stadium, London in July 1985. He sang the Crowded House track "Don't Dream It's Over" at the Nelson Mandela 70th Birthday Tribute in 1988. In 1992, he sang "Radio Ga Ga" with the surviving members of Queen at The Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert. Since the mid-1990s, Young has performed with the band Los Pacaminos.

Early life
Paul Young was born in Luton, Bedfordshire, England, the middle child of three.

Career
The first group for which Young became lead singer was Kat Kool & the Kool Kats. In the late 1970s, he joined Streetband, who had one top 20 hit in the UK, with the humorous, novelty track "Toast". In December 1979, Streetband disbanded.

Q-Tips
The ex-Streetbanders added new recruits Dave Lathwell on guitar and Baz Watts on drums and became Q-Tips. In addition, a four piece brass section was created. Q-Tips's first rehearsals took place in November 1979. Their first concert was on 18 November 1979 at the Queens Arms Hotel in Harrow. This gig was followed by another at the Horn of Plenty in St Albans. By 1 April 1980, the band had recorded two tracks, "SYSLJFM (The Letter Song)", and "Having a Party", both recorded at the Livingstone Studios in Barnet. Constant touring and concert appearances had built a strong fan base by mid-1981. The professionalism of the band had attracted the attention of several record labels, with the late Mickie Most (RAK Records) confirming on BBC Radio 1's Round Table programme that Q-Tips "...are easily the best live band working at the moment". In August 1980, the British music magazine NME reported that Q-Tips had released their debut, eponymous album.

Q-Tips appeared on BBC Television's In Concert, Rock Goes to College and The Old Grey Whistle Test in the latter part of 1981. Q-Tips also opened for the J. Geils Band, the Knack, Thin Lizzy, Bob Marley and the Average White Band. The band toured with After the Fire and supported the Who on their 12-date UK tour in 1980. In 1981, Q-Tips played the Montreux Jazz Festival.

With poor record sales after the release of two albums and seven singles, Q-Tips broke up in early 1982 when Young signed a solo recording contract with CBS. Young briefly teamed up again with Q-Tips for a reunion tour in 1993.

Solo career and pop stardom
Young was signed by Columbia Records as a solo performer. Together with ex-Q-Tips member Ian Kewley, Young began writing and recording songs for his debut album, the breakthrough No Parlez. Young's new backing band, The Royal Family, included keyboardist Kewley, fretless bass player Pino Palladino, guitarist Steve Bolton, drummer Mark Pinder, and backing singers Maz Roberts and Kim Leslie a.k.a. The Fabulous Wealthy Tarts. His first two singles, "Iron Out the Rough Spots" and a cover of "Love of the Common People", had no success, but the third, a cover of the Marvin Gaye song "Wherever I Lay My Hat", reached No. 1 in the UK Singles Chart for three weeks in the summer of 1983. It was the first of Young's 14 British Top 40 singles.

Similar success followed all over Europe. In the UK, follow-up single "Come Back and Stay" reached No. 4, and a re-release of "Love of the Common People" made it to No. 2 and even received radio airplay in the United States (thanks to its soundtrack inclusion in John Hughes's film Sixteen Candles), and his debut album No Parlez was certified platinum in various countries.

The year 1984 was difficult for Young. His first heavy promotional and live concert tour of America strained his vocal cords to the extent that he was forced to rest his voice and did not sing for much of the year. He recovered sufficiently to become involved with the Band Aid single "Do They Know It's Christmas?", an all-star charity project put together by Bob Geldof and Midge Ure for Ethiopian famine relief. Young sang the opening lines of the song as a replacement for David Bowie.

Young returned to the UK Top Ten with a version of Ann Peebles' "I'm Gonna Tear Your Playhouse Down". The latter appeared on his second album, The Secret of Association, released in 1985, which secured his future success in the United States, Japan and Australia. The album went to No. 1 in the UK. That year, Young scored the biggest worldwide hit of his career with "Everytime You Go Away", a cover of a song from the 1980 Hall & Oates album Voices. "Everytime You Go Away" was his biggest success in the U.S. At the 1985 Brit Awards, Young received the award for Best British Male. Associated with the Second British Invasion of the US, "Everytime You Go Away" reached number one on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1985. It also won Best British Video at the 1986 Brit Awards.

In July 1985, Young appeared at Live Aid at Wembley Stadium, London, performing his own hits "Come Back and Stay" and "Everytime You Go Away". Alison Moyet joined him on stage to perform "That's The Way Love Is". He also joined the other artists at the end of the concert for the performance of Band Aid's "Do They Know It's Christmas?".

During parts of 1987, Young toured extensively as the opening act for Genesis on their Invisible Touch Tour. Young played more than 35 dates in 13 countries. The tour concluded from 1–4 July 1987 with four sold out shows playing to more than 350,000 fans at Wembley Stadium in London.

In 1990, he released a cover of The Chi-Lites' "Oh Girl", which peaked at No. 8 on the Billboard Hot 100. Young sang the Crowded House track "Don't Dream It's Over" at the Nelson Mandela 70th Birthday Tribute in 1988, producing a popular duet, "Senza una donna (Without a Woman)," with Italian blues singer Zucchero in 1991, and singing "Radio Ga Ga" with the surviving members of Queen in 1992, at The Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert soon after Freddie Mercury died. In 1991, he recorded a duet with Irish group Clannad for the Blake Edwards film Switch, a cover of the Joni Mitchell song, "Both Sides Now".

"Don't Dream It's Over", "Senza una donna (Without a Woman)" and "Both Sides Now" were featured on Young's first greatest hits album, From Time To Time – The Singles Collection (1991).

In 1993, Young was dropped from his contract with the CBS/Sony Records label. He contributed to the Vangelis album Voices in 1995. Young sang the British national anthem, "God Save the Queen", at Wembley Stadium before England's Euro '96 semi-final match against Germany.

Young's next album, Paul Young, was released in 1997 on East West Records. In November 2001, when Young was on the final night of the Here and Now tour, Michael Aspel awarded him his This is Your Life book. In 2006, he released Rock Swings – On the Wild Side of Swing.

In 2010, Young recorded and released a new track "Come Back", a duet he did with electronic dance music act Chicane. The single was a sample of Young's 1983 hit "Come Back and Stay", and charted at 151 on the UK Singles Chart. The single was recorded onto Chicane's 2010 album Giants. After a lengthy absence of recorded material, Young released an album of vintage soul songs in 2016 called Good Thing and began a lengthy period of tours and festival appearances.

Los Pacaminos
Young first formed Los Pacaminos in 1993. The reason for the group forming was Young's desire to get back to basics. He explained: "I was between record labels and writing material for a new album but I wanted to play live again. I've always loved the Tex-Mex sound and knew a few musicians who had a similar passion for this type of music. So I asked them to join me in forming a band."

The group's early performances were in bars and clubs, performing a mixture of their own material and covers. The album Los Pacaminos was released in 2002.

The band performed and recorded throughout Europe and the UK. In 2014, the band released their second album, A Fistful of Statins. Other media released by the band include an EP and a live album.

Collaborations
Young's earliest collaboration was in the late 1970s on Streetband's first album London, when Ian Dury made a guest appearance on the track "Mystery". In between the Q-Tips and the launch of his solo career, Young sang backing vocals on the Squeeze single "Black Coffee in Bed" with Elvis Costello. Young's best-known musical collaboration (apart from Los Pacaminos) was his early collaboration with bassist Pino Palladino. Palladino, who had collaborated with Tears for Fears, Go West and Gary Numan, featured on four of Young's albums: No Parlez, The Secret of Association, The Crossing and Paul Young. Palladino was the bass player in Young's backing band The Royal Family and played at Live Aid.

Young released a version of the song "Both Sides, Now" with Irish group Clannad for the 1991 motion picture Switch.

Personal life
Young met his wife, former model Stacey Smith, on his video for "Come Back and Stay" in 1983. They married while they were living in Los Angeles in November 1987. They have three children: daughters Levi (born March 1987), Layla (born August 1994), and son Grady Cole (born January 1996). Young and Smith split up in May 2006 and then reconciled in March 2009. During the separation, Smith had a son, Jude, with businessman Ilan Slazenger. On 26 January 2018, it was announced that Stacey Young had died of brain cancer, aged 52.

Young is a close friend of former Spandau Ballet lead singer Tony Hadley. The two toured Australia and New Zealand during October and November 2008.

Discography

 * No Parlez (1983)
 * The Secret of Association (1985)
 * Between Two Fires (1986)
 * Other Voices (1990)
 * The Crossing (1993)
 * Reflections (1994)
 * Paul Young (1997)
 * Rock Swings – On the Wild Side of Swing (2006)
 * Good Thing (2016)
 * Behind the Lens (2023)

title: Paul Young


text:
Janata Dal (Ajit)

The Janata Dal (Ajit) was a political party in India. It merged with the Indian National Congress in the early 1990s. Its leader, Ajit Singh became a Ministry of Food Processing Industries in government led by P.V. Narasimha Rao from 1991 to 1996.

Later Ajit Singh quit the Indian National Congress and later formed a new party, the Bharatiya Kisan Kamghar Party in 1996. In 1998, Mr Ajit Singh launched the Rashtriya Lok Dal which was one of the original parties run by his father and former Prime Minister of India, Ch Charan Singh and was part of NDA and UPA governments.

title: Janata Dal (Ajit)


text:
Talk:Spatula

u r pretty  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.241.153.138 (talk) 09:11, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

In the UK, the implement referred to in the picture and the bulk of the text is usually called a "fish slice", while "spatula" refers specifically to a rubber-headed/wooden-handled implement often used to scrape cake mix or a similar substance from a bowl. Is this worth mentioning in the article? If so, what's the best way to do it? Lancevortex 11:44, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Spatula
How many people spell spatula 'SPATCHULA'. If you know any one please tell me

N.B. No-one actually spells spatula like the above-noted listing.

Titanium Spatulas
I've begun to add some important information about the risks and benefits of titanium spatulas. Just curious... Why was it never added??
 * What's "Ca2O4DHe6"? There is no element with symbol "D", and He (Helium) is inert and generally doesn't form compounds. Where did this chemical formula come from? --Arteitle 17:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * D is sometimes used in chemical formulas for Deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen with a neutron in the nucleus. :-) It's not very likely that it's what the writer meant though. --Apoc2400 11:30, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Chemistry spatula
Isn't there a lab tool that's also called a spatula? You know we have a problem in our society when there's like 5 different things called spatulas. --Liface 05:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Apparently, "spatula" is just as general a term as "knife", is all, describing a general type of instrument (ironically, the article at current states that putty "knives" are a kind of spatula, heh). I do not think calling a spatula a spatula is a "problem in our society". A potential semantic problem, mind you, but hardly societal. ;) Runa27 06:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Titanium spatula is an excellent band name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.183.212 (talk) 11:28, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Not what I call a spatula
I've always been told (including by those who should know and by many a cook) that many of the things pictured in this article are not spatulas. Some are frosting devices which can be called a spatula, but the two on the ends (see picture) are pancake turners. And the thing I believe to be a spatula (long, thin, flexible, rounded corner blade for separating a cake from the pan) isn't even shown.

 * I agree. I think the sliding implements are turners or colloquially in the UK fish slice (old fashioned: trowel).  A skimmer might appear similar.  This page shows a 'spatula' as distinct from these other things: john lewis (2nd & 3rd from left)  Hakluyt bean 23:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I also agree. As a matter of fact, the page itself references the Oxford and M-W dictionaries that make no mention of the device which is described (which is actually a pancake turner in US English). While "spatula" can be used for a few different devices, the one described in the article is often distinctly separate from what are generally called by that name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.133.74.137 (talk) 05:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The thing pictured is not a spatula (as I understand the term). It is what I would call a fish slice, which isn't what I think of when I see the word spatula. A Spatula is a long thin implement with a rounded flexible end/blade used for spreading and scraping. A fish slice is used for turning fish (and used when cooking a full English breakfast!). I have never heard or seen the term Frying Scoop used in Britain, I assume that is an American term. --Alchemist Jack (talk) 10:52, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Agree. 217.91.44.15 (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

In American English colloquilisms, the item pictured is known as a spatula, however, what is taught in schools is that a spatula is a thinner blade like implement for spreading or scraping.

In the u.k. the pictured item is known as a fish slice or egg lift. There is a subtle difference in the shapes between a fish slice and an egg lift, but I can not remember now at the top of my head which shape correlates to which name. Furthermore, I have zero idea where the idea that calling it a fish slice has its roots in the English class system. Preposterous suggestion and factually incorrect —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.139.157 (talk) 18:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Actually, the term spatula for pancake turners (or egg turners, or just turners, for short) bothers many people over a wide swath of the US. The usage is relatively new nationally, having appeared and increased in popularity only during about the last 25-30 years, especially among urban and younger speakers. It probably was in use regionally before then, I'm guessing somewhere between Philadelphia and Boston. There's a strong undercurrent of resistance to this change, however, many still preferring turner since there are enough different types of "spatulas" already, the so-called "frosting" variety - not everyone thinks immediately of frosting when they see this tool - still being very widely recognized for this word in kitchens. Enough people prefer [pancake] turner in the US and in other English speaking countries (fish slice being identified as slang by many Britons) that I, for one, would strongly recommend moving this page to Turner or Pancake turner, as representing the best approximation to an international consensus.--IfYouDoIfYouDon't (talk) 05:12, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I made a mistake in suggesting a complete page move. What I do think is needed is first of all a clear change to the "In the kitchen" section to show that very many Americans do not identify with spatula for the lifting/turning utensil, and the older usage [pancake/egg] turner is, for these speakers, still the clear preference. Secondly, I would recommend the creation of a separate Turner or Pancake turner page, as most of these same people (and many English speakers elsewhere in the world) do not even think of a pancake turner as a "spatula" at all. The present configuration is unacceptable because it is US-biased, to begin with, and in addition, even among Americans it is biased in favor of generally more urban and youthful speakers.--IfYouDoIfYouDon't (talk) 05:49, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I cannot speak for the US but in the UK the word fish slice is still the most common name for the large flat bladed utensil. It has, to the best of my knowledge, never been considered slang, although its use has changed over the years. Martin Hogbin (talk) 09:01, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I have never heard a pancake turner called a fish slice in the u.S., and i would hazard to guess that very few Americans would have any idea what one is.

in the '50s, both rubber bowl knives and pancake turners were both called spatulas in my Midwest experience -- and nothing else among the lay population. In the mid '60s, the Midwest bakery I worked at used only "rubber bowl knife" for scraper-type spatulas. Kdammers (talk) 13:36, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation
I think that this should be made into a disambiguation page. There are so many things that are called spatulas (and that Americans call spatulas) that this article is confusing and doesn't really fully cover all of them. I made an article on fish slices (which could include some of the content from here) and it already mentions that the Americans call it a spatula. The other meanings of spatula could be covered in separate pages with titles specific to the type.

If it isn't separated, different sections could be added here to cover different types of spatulas.--Jcvamp 17:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

May I add one type of spatula for consideration that I have known since Nursery and Primary School school in the UK: the craft spatula. A basic one-piece moulded plastic stick with a thin, square-ended flexible blade. Used primarily for spreading liquid adhesives such as PVA glue. A picture is availble here of the perfect example (just so you know what I am referring to): http://www.dkimages.com/discover/DKIMAGES/Discover/Home/Crafts/Tools-and-Materials/Tools-and-Materials-121.html Chiefmcbeef (talk) 01:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The article is confusing
The first sentence of the article defines the term spatula as only the lifting device, which is too narrow. It then implies that anything called a spatula in US English is called a fish slice in British English, which is also inaccurate. I tried to fix this, but my edits were undone. 71.112.213.193 19:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Oncologist?
Anyone care to explain why oncologist is a related utensil? As in the doctor who studies cancer? Am I missing something here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stever Augustus (talk • contribs) 04:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Fish slice (UK) merger
I agree that Fish slice (UK) should be merged into this one, not least because that article seems to refer to a usage which no longer exists AFAIK. 93.96.236.8 (talk) 21:08, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

It should be merged, but the usage of the term does still exist.--Jcvamp (talk) 01:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add that if this page were called 'Spatula (cooking utensil)' or something similar, we wouldn't have to keep including awkward explanations about how the term isn't used to describe a kitchen implement in the UK, but does refer to other items called spatulas.--Jcvamp (talk) 01:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

It should not be merged, but only because "fish slice" is so common in the widely-read works of P. G. Wodehouse. Nowhere does Wodehouse either explain what a "fish slice" is, or explain that it is upper-class slang for a wedding gift. Therefore this Wikipedia entry is important to readers of Wodehouse. 10 June 2010 R. C. Chicago, IL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.211.204 (talk) 12:27, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The two articles should not be merged as they are not the same item, are you adding Pallet knife too? would you mix the articles for Wok and frying pan? A spatula is a wooden implement mostly used for stirring in frying or a plastic item used for spreading mainly in baking. A fish slice is used for lifting or flipping not stirring or spreading. --Frgte (talk) 01:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

 * The item shown in the picture of this article is a fish slice. 217.91.44.15 (talk) 14:51, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The item shown is called a fish slice in the UK. A spatula in UK English is different. Martin Hogbin (talk) 00:57, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be no consensus to merge. Any help of the naming of the fish slice and fish slice (UK) articles would be welcome. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:53, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Broadened definition
I hope other contributors will excuse me arbitrarily adding an introductory paragraph and moving other parts of the text in order to adjust the disproportionate and misleading emphasis on kitchen spatulas. I didn't wait to consult as the effect of the existing format was to confuse anyone following links from other articles where the implement has a completely different use - eg in relation to artistic technique. Opbeith (talk) 08:31, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

What's the history?
I was wondering where we got Spatulas (the flat thing we flip burgers with), I think the Knife is really, really ancient, but how did the shape change to this, or did it come from some other thing. I came here, and amazing! something that Wikipedia does not yet cover. Friendly Person (talk) 22:18, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Fishslice redirect
The 'fishslice' redirect currently points here rather than to Fish slice. Surely this is incorrect? --Ef80 (talk) 13:31, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Why does Turner (utensil) redirect here?
This implement is never mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.245.131.65 (talk) 18:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It is often called a pancake turner in parts of the U.S. Maybe that's why.Kdammers (talk) 01:37, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Rubber bowl knife
is what scrapers are called by American bakers. 37.99.43.80 (talk) 17:04, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Spatula


text:
Central nervous system cavernous hemangioma

Cerebral cavernous malformation (CCM) is a cavernous hemangioma that arises in the central nervous system. It can be considered to be a variant of hemangioma, and is characterized by grossly large dilated blood vessels and large vascular channels, less well circumscribed, and more involved with deep structures, with a single layer of endothelium and an absence of neuronal tissue within the lesions. These thinly walled vessels resemble sinusoidal cavities filled with stagnant blood. Blood vessels in patients with cerebral cavernous malformations (CCM) can range from a few millimeters to several centimeters in diameter. Most lesions occur in the brain, but any organ may be involved.

Symptoms and signs
Clinical symptoms of central nervous system origin include recurrent headaches, focal neurological deficits, hemorrhagic stroke, and seizures, but CCM can also be asymptomatic. The nature and severity of the symptoms depend on the lesion's location.

CCMs and venous angiomas
In up to 30% there is a coincidence of CCM with a venous angioma, also known as a developmental venous anomaly. These lesions appear either as enhancing linear blood vessels or caput medusae, a radial orientation of small vessels that resemble the hair of Medusa from Greek mythology. These lesions are thought to represent developmental anomalies of normal venous drainage. These lesions should not be removed, as venous infarcts have been reported. When found in association with a CCM that needs resection, great care should be taken not to disrupt the angioma.

Genetics
Familial forms of CCM occur at three known genetic loci. The gene for CCM1 encodes KRIT1 (krev interaction trapped 1), and has been found to bind to ICAP1alpha (integrin cytoplasmic domain associated protein alpha), a beta1 integrin associated protein. A particular mutation in CCM1 (the Q455X mutation), accounts for a cluster of cases in the Southwestern United States. This cluster, particularly in northern New Mexico, is an example of the founder effect; it has been traced back to early Spanish settlers.

The gene for CCM2 encodes a protein named malcavernin that contains a phosphotyrosine binding domain. The exact biological function of CCM2 is not clear. Recently, it has been shown that CCM1 and CCM2 proteins as well as ICAP1alpha form a macromolecular complex in the cell. In addition, it appears that CCM2 protein may function as a scaffolding protein for MAP kinases that are essential in p38 activation responding to osmotic stress including MEKK3 and MKK3. It also binds to Rac and actin. Therefore, CCM2 protein is also called OSM (osmosensing scaffold for MEKK3).

The CCM3 gene is the most recently identified CCM gene. CCM3 is known as PDCD10 (programmed cell death 10), which was initially identified as a gene that is up-regulated during the induction of apoptosis (cell death) in TF-1, a human myeloid cell line. The precise role of the PDCD10 protein in the CCM pathway is not clear. It is recently shown that PDCD10 forms a complex with CCM1 protein (KRIT1) and CCM2 protein (OSM). PDCD10 interacts directly with OSM independent of KRIT1-OSM interaction. Research is ongoing to determine the function and properties of all three CCM gene products as well as the reaction pathways in which they are involved.

Evidence suggests that a fourth gene, CCM4, may also cause CCM. Mutations in these genes account for 70 to 80 percent of all cases of cerebral cavernous malformations. The remaining 20 to 30 percent of cases may be due to other, still unidentified, genes. Recently it has been shown that the deletion of CDC42 in endothelial cells elicits cerebral vascular malformations, suggesting that it may be a fourth gene involved in CCM pathology.

Recently, gain of function mjutations in Pik3ca has been reported in both sporadic and familial CCM, suggesting that like cancer, CCM lesions need to inhibit tumor suppressor genes and activate oncogenes.

Mechanisms
Many molecular mechanisms have been identified in CCM pathology. In 2015 it was reported that the endothelial cells forming cerebral vascular malformations undergo an endothelial to mesenchymal transition in both sporadic and familial CCM

CCM mutant endothelial cells have been reported to undergo clonal expansion and be able to recruit non-mutant cells into the lesions Recently, immunothrombosis and hypoxia have also been reported to be dysregulated in CCM.

Diagnosis
Diagnosis is generally made by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), particularly using a specific imaging technique known as a gradient-echo sequence MRI, which can unmask small or punctate lesions that may otherwise remain undetected. These lesions are also more conspicuous on FLAIR imaging compared to standard T2 weighing. FLAIR imaging is different from gradient sequences. Rather, it is similar to T2 weighing but suppresses free-flowing fluid signal. Sometimes quiescent CCMs can be revealed as incidental findings during MRI exams ordered for other reasons. Many cavernous hemangiomas are detected "accidentally" during MRIs searching for other pathologies. These "incidentalomas" are generally asymptomatic. In the case of hemorrhage, however, a CT scan is more efficient at showing new blood than an MRI, and when brain hemorrhage is suspected, a CT scan may be ordered first, followed by an MRI to confirm the type of lesion that has bled. Sometimes the lesion appearance imaged by MRI remains inconclusive. Consequently, neurosurgeons will order a cerebral angiogram or magnetic resonance angiogram. Since CCMs are low flow lesions (they are hooked into the venous side of the circulatory system), they will be angiographically occult (invisible). If a lesion is discernible via angiogram in the same location as in the MRI, then an arteriovenous malformation (AVM) becomes the primary concern.

Treatment
Treatment of symptomatic CCM is only via surgery, depending on the location of the lesions. There are no pharmaceuticals currently available to treat CCM.

Incidence
The incidence in the general population is roughly 0.5%, and clinical symptoms typically appear between 20 and 30 years of age. Once thought to be strictly congenital, these vascular lesions have been found to occur de novo. It may appear either sporadically or exhibit autosomal dominant inheritance.