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Samosa

A samosa  is a fried South Asian and Iranian Dish, It is a pastry with a savoury filling, mostly vegetables, spiced potatoes, onions, peas, also non-vegetarian meat, or fish. It is made into different shapes, including triangular, cone, or crescent, depending on the region. Samosas are often accompanied by chutney, and have origins in medieval times or earlier. Sweet versions are also made. Samosas are a popular entrée, appetizer, or snack in the cuisines of South Asia, the Middle East, Central Asia, East Africa and their South Asian diasporas.

Etymology
The English word samosa derives from the Hindustani word (, समोसा), traceable to the Middle Persian word   'triangular pastry'. Similar pastries are called in Arabic; medieval Arabic recipe books sometimes spell it.

History
The South Asian samosa is believed to be derived from a medieval precursor from the Middle East that was baked and not fried. The earliest mention of a samosa precursor was by Abbasid-era poet Ishaq al-Mawsili, praising the sanbusaj. Recipes are found in 10th–13th-century Arab cookery books, under the names sanbusak, sanbusaq, and sanbusaj, all deriving from the Persian word. In Iran, the dish was popular until the 16th century, but by the 20th century its popularity was restricted to certain provinces (such as the of Larestan). Abolfazl Beyhaqi (995–1077), an Iranian historian, mentioned it in his history, Tarikh-e Beyhaghi.

The Central Asian samsa was introduced to the Indian subcontinent in the 13th or 14th century by chefs from the Middle East and Central Asia who cooked in the royal kitchens for the rulers of the Delhi Sultanate. Amir Khusro (1253–1325), a scholar and the royal poet of the Delhi Sultanate, wrote around 1300 CE that the princes and nobles enjoyed the "samosa prepared from meat, ghee, onion, and so on". Ibn Battuta, a 14th-century traveler and explorer, describes a meal at the court of Muhammad bin Tughluq, where the samushak or sambusak, a small pie stuffed with minced meat, almonds, pistachios, walnuts and spices, was served before the third course of pulao. Nimatnama-i-Nasiruddin-Shahi, a medieval Indian cookbook started for Ghiyath Shah, the ruler of the Malwa Sultanate in central India, mentions the art of making samosa. The Ain-i-Akbari, a 16th-century Mughal document, mentions the recipe for qottab, which it says, "the people of Hindustan call sanbúsah".

India
The samosa is prepared with an all-purpose flour (locally known as maida) and stuffed with a filling, often a mixture of diced and cooked or mashed boiled potato, onions, green peas, lentils, ginger, spices and green chili. A samosa can be vegetarian or non-vegetarian, depending on the filling. The entire pastry is deep-fried in vegetable oil or (rarely) ghee to a golden brown. It is served hot, often with fresh green chutney, such as mint or coriander chutney, or tamarind chutney. It can also be prepared in a sweet form. Samosas are often served in chaat (a type of street food), along with the traditional accompaniments of either a chickpea or a white pea preparation, drizzled with yogurt, tamarind chutney and green chutney, and garnished with chopped onions, coriander, and chaat masala.

In the Indian states of Assam, Odisha, West Bengal, Bihar and Jharkhand, singaras or singras (চিংৰা) (the East Indian version of samosas) are popular snacks found almost everywhere. They are a bit smaller than in other parts of India, with a filling consisting chiefly of cooked diced potato, peanuts, and sometimes raisins. Shingras are wrapped in a thin sheet of dough (made of all-purpose flour) and fried. Good shingras are distinguished by flaky textures akin to that of a savory pie crust.

Singaras may be eaten as a tea-time snack. They can also be prepared in a sweet form. Bengali singaras tend to be triangular, filled with potato, peas, onions, diced almonds, or other vegetables, and are more heavily fried and crunchier than other singaras or their samosa cousins. Singara filled with cauliflower mixture is a popular variation. Non-vegetarian varieties of singaras are mutton singaras and fish singaras. There are also sweet versions, such as coconut singara, as well as others filled with khoya and dipped in sugar syrup that are known as Mishti Shingara.

In the city of Hyderabad, a smaller version of samosa with a thicker pastry crust and minced meat filling, referred to as lukhmi, is consumed, as is another variation with an onion filling.

In the states of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, and Tamil Nadu, samosas are slightly different, being folded differently, more like Portuguese chamuças, with a different style of pastry. The filling also differs, typically featuring mashed potatoes with spices, fried onions, peas, carrots, cabbage, curry leaves, and green chilis, and is mostly eaten without chutney. Samosas in South India are made in different sizes, whose fillings are influenced by local food habits, and may include meat.

Bangladesh

Both flat-shaped (triangular) and full-shaped (tetrahedron/triangular pyramid) samosas are popular snacks in Bangladesh. A Bengali version of the full-shaped samosa is called a সিঙাড়া and is normally smaller than the standard variety. The is usually filled with pieced potatoes, vegetables, nuts, etc. However,  filled with beef liver are very popular in some parts of the country. The flat-shaped samosa is called a or, and is usually filled with onions and minced meat.

Nepal
Samosas are called in the eastern zone of Nepal; the rest of the country calls it samosa. As in India, it is a very popular snack in Nepalese cuisine. Vendors sell the dish in various markets and restaurants.

Pakistan
Samosas of various types are available throughout Pakistan. In general, most samosa varieties sold in the southern Sindh province and in the eastern Punjab, especially the city of Lahore, are spicier and mostly contain vegetable or potato-based fillings. However, the samosas sold in the west and north of the country mostly contain minced meat-based fillings and are comparatively less spicy. The meat samosa contains minced meat (lamb, beef, or chicken) and is very popular as a snack food in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, the samosas of Karachi are famous for their spicy flavour, whereas samosas from Faisalabad are noted for being unusually large. Another distinct variety of samosa, available in Karachi, is called ("paper samosa" in English) due to its thin and crispy covering, which resembles a wonton or spring roll wrapper. Another variant, popular in Punjab, consists of samosas with side dishes of mashed spiced chickpeas, onions, and coriander leaf salad, as well as various chutneys to top the samosas. Sweet samosas are also sold in the cities of Pakistan including Peshawar; these sweet samosas contain no filling and are dipped in thick sugar syrup.

Another Pakistani snack food, which is popular in Punjab, is known as "". This is a combination of a crumbled samosa, along with spiced chickpeas (channa chaat), yogurt, and chutneys. Alternatively, the samosa can be eaten on its own with a side of chutney.

In Pakistan, samosas are a staple Iftar food for many Pakistani families, during the month of Ramzan.

Maldives
The types and varieties of samosa made in Maldivian cuisine are known as. They are filled with a mixture including fish like tuna and onions.

Similar snacks
Similar snacks and variants of samosas are found in many other countries. They are derived either from the South Asian somasa or are derived from the medieval precursor that originated in the Middle East.

Myanmar (Burma)

Samosas are called (စမူဆာ) in Burmese, and are an extremely popular street snack in Burma. Samosas are also used in a traditional Burmese salad, called samuza thoke (စမူဆာသုပ်; lit. 'samosa salad'), a salad of cut samosa pieces with onions, cabbage, fresh mint, light potato and chickpea curry broth, masala, chili powder, salt and lime.

Indonesia

In Indonesia, samosas are locally known as samosa, filled with potato, cheese, curry, rousong or noodles as adapted to local taste. They are usually served as a snack with sambal. Samosa is almost similar to Indonesian pastel, panada and epok-epok.

East Africa
Samosas are also a key part of East African food often seen in Somalia, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Burundi, Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Rwanda.

Somalia
The variety of samosa made in Somali cuisine is known as "sambusa" or "sambuus" and is filled with ground beef or vegetables along with usually being blended with Somali spices. Sambusa is often consumed during Ramadan.

Samosas are also a staple of local cuisine in the fellow Horn of Africa countries of Djibouti and Ethiopia, where they are known as sambuuse.

South Africa
Called samoosas in South Africa, they tend to be smaller than Indian variants, and form part of South African Indian and Cape Malay cuisine.

West Africa
Samosas also exist in West African countries such as Ghana and Nigeria where they are a common street food. In Nigeria, it is usually served in parties along with chicken or beef, puff puff, spring rolls and plantains and are called small chops.

Mascarenes
Samosas, locally called samoussas, are a popular snack on Réunion and Mauritius as both islands have faced large waves of labor immigration from the Indian subcontinent. The samosas there are generally smaller and filled with chicken, cheese, crabs or potatoes. There are also varieties such as chocolate and banana or pizza.

Israel
Sambusak (Hebrew: סמבוסק) comes in several distinct forms, as sambusak has been influenced differently by Sephardic and Mizrahi cuisine. Sephardi sambusak is generally thicker, baked, and stuffed with either cheese or beef and coated with sesame or nigella seeds. Mizrahi sambusak is generally thinner, larger, fried, and stuffed with curry-spiced chickpea and onion, and is usually not coated with seeds.

Arab countries
Sambousek (سمبوسك) are usually filled with either meat, onion, pine nuts, za’atar, spinach dock, or cheese. They are widely consumed in the holy month of Ramadan.

Iran
Sambuseh can often be found in the southern regions of Iran and rarely in other areas. However, traditionally it used to be made in the form of qottab filled with ground nuts (usually, walnuts), sugar, fragrant herbs or spices, and likewise fried in oil. It is used as a confectionary and quite commonly. When meat is used, it is no longer called qottab. This is all that remains of the old "sanbusag" in its ancient homeland. Nowadays, Iranian Sambuseh is often made with a sausage and pizza cheese based filling; however, a vegetable-based variety also exists.

Portuguese-speaking regions
In Goa (India), Portugal, and Angola, samosas are known as chamuças. They are usually filled with chicken, beef, pork, lamb or vegetables, and generally served quite hot. Samosas are an integral part of Goan and Portuguese cuisine, where they are a common snack.

English-speaking regions
Samosas are popular in the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados, Guyana, Uganda, South Africa, Rwanda, Kenya and Tanzania, and are also growing in popularity in Canada, and the United States. They may be called samboosa or sambusac, but in South Africa, they are often called samoosa. Frozen samosas are increasingly available from grocery stores in Australia, Canada, the United States, and the United Kingdom, where they are also frequently sold fresh by local Indian and Pakistani street market vendors.

Variations using filo, or flour tortillas are sometimes found.

Al-Shabaab's samosa ban
Al-Shabaab, the extremist group controlling parts of Somalia, banned samosas in 2011 over concerns about the possible use of rotten meat in the filling.

title: Samosa


text:
Gilles Grégoire

Gilles Grégoire (May 6, 1926 – November 22, 2006) was a co-founder of the Parti Québécois.

Born in Quebec City, Quebec, the son of Joseph-Ernest Grégoire, he was elected in 1962 to the House of Commons of Canada with the Ralliement des créditistes. He left that party in 1966 and was elected president of the Ralliement national, a pro-sovereignty party on August 21, 1966.

In October 1968 the Ralliement national merged with René Lévesque's Mouvement Souveraineté-Association to form the Parti Québécois.

He was elected as a member of the National Assembly of Quebec in the riding of Frontenac in the 1976 general election and was re-elected in the 1981 general election. In 1983, he was sentenced to two years minus a day in jail due to his sexual abuse of several minor girls, which resulted in him becoming an independent for the rest of his term.

He died in Quebec City at 80.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Gilles Grégoire


text:
Talk:Mindless Self Indulgence

Image Fail
The current image on the information panel does not function —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.19.47 (talk) 14:29, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

New Album
I've been told by Both Kitty, and Steve, Right? that their new album is out early next year, and will feature several different covers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.121.194 (talk) 21:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

discography section
so there's that neat little box down there with all of msi's major albums and eps and pics of the covers, only i noticed that DLN isn't in there, then i noticed that the info on there goes "1.ms-i 2.tight 3.FGWSSS 4.AoA *** 6.YRTA 7.amro" where's 5(DLN)? looks as if someone deleted it. so i just added it back where it belongs, but it's not shwoing up. if you try to edit that section you'll see that it's there and has all the right formatting or whatever just like the other releases, but it isn't showing up on the page. what up with that? somebody needs to fix this.68.252.94.153 16:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Editing and the history section
Is there any particular reason that all the edit buttons from "history" onwards have been redirected so as to refer to the section after the one it should, thus rendering the "history" section uneditable? (i.e., the edit button besides "history" redirects to editting "future", "future" goes to "members", etc.)

If not, could this be fixed? 76.10.151.209 21:16, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

The Download Festival in 2005
Removed "The Download Festival in 2005" I was there and they never played, double checked the website just to be sure. Vendemmian 19:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

WHAT...THE...FUCK...
I am TRYING to upload a more recent pic of the band but somebody keeps changing it... That is nowhere NEAR current, taken even before YRTA was released. I am nearly 100% sure that the purpose is to have current information. So STOP changing it...
 * As I said in the edit, more recent pictures do not mean a better one. The older one shows all memebers clearly. The article is about the entire group not just Jimmy and a couple of "fuzzy" bandmates. Since their have been absolutely no changes in the line-up, nor any significant appearence changes since the two photos. Basically, the older one is the better one to use becuase it showcases the entire band. Smoltz 10:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * okay so why is [image.jpg] not appropriate? clearly shows ALL members and it is a current picture. Msipiggy 11:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Had that been the picture in question, when I editted it, I would have been in favor it it. The picture I removed was one of Jimmy w/ Chauncey and the bandmates in the background. Smoltz 22:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The image used right now does not have a reliable tag on it, and is about to be deleted. --Liface 22:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Discography section cleanup
I think we need to clean up the discography section. For albums that do not have their own stub article, they need one.

Since the track lists are listed in the album stub articles, it seems redundant and messy to re-list them on the MSI main page. We should probably just list the albums with links to their stub articles as well as the year in which they were produced and any other major details that can fit on one line such as the year of release.

Thoughts on this?

Grandeandy 03:09, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Kudos to whoever cleaned this up. It looks great!

Grandeandy 20:40, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

FGWSSS Warning
Should this not be on the page for the album itself instead of the bands page?

Devilmaycare 17:15, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

--

Normally I would say liner notes on an album should be on the album page, but this is a general statement about who they are and probably should remain here.

--Graveenib 20:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, there is one of these on You'll Rebell and is listed under the album page. Perhaps the band article could mention they like to put these kinds of statements and link or cite the album page. Graveenib 23:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I moved the warning to the page and put a summary with a link to each album's warning message Graveenib 00:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

gay community
to be quite honest the gay community on average probably has no clue who mindless self indulgence is. i really do not understand why that is mentioned here.

 * Where is "gay community" mentioned in the article? If you're referring to the mention of gay lyrics, then it makes sense that it's mentioned, as you find very little punk rock bands that sing about such a topic. It's one of the traits that makes MSI unique. Saaga July 4, 2005 17:22 (UTC)

- "However, their sound is far from being stereotypically gay, and their appeal is not limited to the gay community."

UH WRONG LOL GAYEST FUCKING MUSIC EVER

- This doesn't make much sense considering that they never appealed to only the gay community or anyone in general. This is what the original page said about half a year ago. The thing is though is that placing the band as gay community icons as this quip paints them isn't really the truth. they took that whole kind of girly gimic from the new york dolls, not the gay community. -bozu

 * Is he really gay or not? A lot of what he does is usually to shock or anger the audience, I wonder if he is gay, bi or straight. In North America it easily makes many people uncomfortable.  Well, whatever sexuality he really is he has no shame at all...  Which is great

He may or may not be gay but the lyrics openly say gay and bisexual things. I think the consenses amoung the fan base is that James Euringer is bisexual, commonly kissing fans of both sexes. Beeing a huge fan myself am not sure. I would not be shocked either way. As for appealing to the gay bisexual audience, the lyrics are funny to an open minded audience, although most fans are probably ignorant of everything. The music will be more likely to appeal to someone who finds nothing wrong with homosexuality.

 * Why do you care? Are you considering hitting on him?

 * What the hell is a steriotypically gay sound?

--this right above, was exactly my thought. wtf does that mean? and if james urine heard it what the fuck would he think? he'd probably say "that is just silly." - bozu ---

I'm gay and I find the lyrics hilarious. -Anonymous :P

His name is JIMMY urine (For short), so, to go by my theory, don't post about a band if you don't even know their names!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.114.89 (talk) 00:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Devo?
Could someone please explain to me why Devo's here? Thanks! — Xoder | Talk 18:12, Mar 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * My thought, too. I've removed it upon adding to and copyediting the article. -- Saaga 15:06, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

Im gay also and I love MSI and their lyrics about being "gay" or anything...Their MSI.. and thei Unique and different...

Left-Rights
My understanding of the Left-Rights is that it is a band consisting of the two male members of MSI, Little Jimmy Urine and Steve, Righ?.

My understanding about the Left Rights is that, although they are the same people as MSI, they are a different band, so I will add appropriate disclaimers  — Xoder|✆ 23:14, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC) the left rights is technically an album

Maybe something should be added about how the lead singer recognizes that his music is a somewhat of a joke (See lyrics to joke and many other songs) and its his non serious approach to music that makes him notable.

Specifically the song "2 Hookers and 8-ball" which goes '2 hookers and an 8-ball, can you believe that I write this shit? 2 hookers and an 8-ball, stupid people thinking I am cool.

The Left Rights is a band by Jimmy Urine and Steve Righ? www.myspace.com/theleftrights, its also Mindless Self Indulgence's Debut Album81.76.114.89 12:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * um.. what? left rights is MSI's debut album? lol put down the crack pipe dude.68.252.94.153 16:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

f--ed up
why are we bleeping fucked up? we say nigger and faggot in the article and bleep fucked up? Theres an entire article on fuck. When did wikipedia become squeamish? This is selective censorship, and only more proof why censorship on the whole is a self-defeating philosophy.

Lockeownzj00 01:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

mixing on atari
Don't see what's -so- unusual about this, up to the end of the 90s... was once pretty common to do your sequencing on an ST (built in midi ports, the birthplace of Cubase, home to many commercial plug-in pieces of sampler hardware, etc), perhaps one band member was a fan, got themselves a Falcon (the next one after the ST, with built in CD-quality DSP chip and direct hard disc recording) and put it to good use... PS this is how it should be done, motherfucker - this style.

Shut Me Up : The Remixes
Alright im a huge MSI fan and this is the first i have heard of this

Can someone give me proof that there is a Shut Me Up remix album ?

` Hit up their myspace page. their latest blog states this will be released this fall. Graveenib 23:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

http://www.mindlessselfindulgence.com/inside/

News item for 0/21/2006:

"This fall will see the release of the new Mindless Self Indulgence single "Shut Me Up: The Remixes + 3". The CD will feature 3 remixes of "Shut Me Up" as well as its demo version. In addition to this there will be 2 new remixes of fan favorite "Straight To Video" as well as the previously unreleased tracks "Adios Amigos" and MSI's cover of the Notorious B.I.G. classic "Big Poppa".

[image]

01. SHUT ME UP - Ulrich Wild (Groandome Metal Remix) 02. SHUT ME UP - VNV Nation (1200XL Remix) 03. SHUT ME UP - Tommie Sunshine (TSMV Still Filthy Remix) 04. SHUT ME UP - Original Crappy Demo 05. BIG POPPA (Previously Unreleased) 06. ADIOS AMIGOS (Previously Unreleased) 07. STRAIGHT TO VIDEO (Bonus Remixes) - Suicide City (More and Faster Remix) 08. STRAIGHT TO VIDEO (Bonus Remixes) - Tommie Sunshine (TSMV Extended Electro Remix)"

Nintendocore
This doesn't seem to apply to MSI's musical style. This genre consists of bands along the lines of 14 Year Old Girls, 8 Bit Weapon and The Minibosses who focus on doing modern interpretations of old video game music. This is not Mindless Self Indulgence. This is the second time it has been reverted. Please, let's discuss.Graveenib 21:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right. --Liface 21:41, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This only nintendocore thing just stems from samples, no actual covers. Smoltz 22:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why should you label them at all. They are about controversy and their genre should match. I do agree with the fact that nintendocore doesn't really match them.-- User:Blackout45 1:00 Sept. 18 2006

Tagged
I guess this bands notability is primarily based on who they opened for. That's fine, but someone please cite it. Thanks. House of Scandal 04:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This should not be speedy tagged, thus I removed the tag. They have an allmusic.com entry, which indicates that at least one of their records is on a real label, if not more, thus they probably meet WP:MUSIC. If you think the article should be deleted, it at least needs to go through WP:AFD. Herostratus 04:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This is ridiculous. Did the person who added the speedy deletion tag even try googling their name? --Liface 08:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

this article is seriously vandalized
"Another significant influence to the band is early 1980s satanic culture" lol gg wikipedia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.1.30.233 (talk) 17:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

Hmm..
I think many people here are seriously biased. I, myself, am a fan of MSI and similar artists having seen them in concert with Kill Hannah. But I swear, you people are messed up. Why not just respect MSI for the shit they put right in front of you. At least they're point fucking blank and in your face.

Msi saved me 16:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC) Boomer

LGBT Musical Group
I added them to this category, because of their obvious homosexual lyrical content of some songs, aaand..being gay myself, it's kind of cool to have a kick ass band such as MSI in that category. Also, I think everyone knows that Urine is bi..so..yeah. Felt it was appropriate to add them to that category, mostly due to their lyrics. Here's the website that some people use for his bisexuality, http://suicidegirls.com/interviews/Mindless+Self+Indulgence/ where they ask what type of girls he likes, he talks about being attracted to basically everyone. Oreo 25 March 2007
 * I read the interview and couldn't find anything to support Euringer's bisexuality. Could you please point out where exactly in the article he makes his sexuality known, so it can be added to the page's citations? From what I understand, his sexuality has been an issue both on the band's article and his own, and appropriate referencing outside of lyrics, which don't necessarily reflect the artist or composer's actual views, and the one-dollar makeout stunt at shows hasn't been provided. ZachPG 16:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

DRE: What kind of women are you attracted to? JU: Just about anything at this point. I have a dick and it gets hard then that's good. I walk down the street and if I see a girl and my dick gets hard that's and if I see a boy that's good too and same with seeing a chicken. If my dick gets hard and I want to fuck it then that's good. People like to attach labels to themselves, straight, gay, S &M, it's just so simple. It doesn't matter what you do whether its horrible or mainstream or boring, you know what turns you on. So why the big brouhaha.

He says he's basically attracted to everything/one. "If I see a boy that's good too" implies that..I would say, I mean..it's not saying "I'm bisexual", but a person doesn't need to say those exact words. If someone kept a journal about being in love/lust with another guy, just because he doesn't address his bisexuality it doesn't mean it doesn't exist..if you get what I mean. Oreo

 * This is better than nothing, but IMHO, any mention of his sexual orientation in either the band's article or his own should be carefully worded to express basically what you said above, that statements were made and the evidence is there, but it's not express, it's implied. Unfortunately, I'm a newb and have no clue how to properly word something like that. Ideas? ZachPG 15:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a combination of pansexuality (being potentially attracted to everyone - not just male and female but tran, hermaphrodite, XXY-male, XYY-male, XXX-female, etc) and omniparaphilia (being turned on by... everything). It would definitely be a good idea to drop the pansexuality link in there in my opinion. ~ Swi tch  ( ✉ ✍  ☺ )  16:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Yea or maybe he was fucking with the interviewer. DUHHHHH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.113.153 (talk • contribs)

Vandalism and spam links
There's been a lot of vandalism of late and i wondered about requesting semi-protection for the article? Also there appear to be a number of (i think) spam links in the external links section, e.g. ones to various fansites. Are these spam and should they be removed? Jamamala 22:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

somebody removed the word "pussy"
Somebody removed the word "pussy" from the description "industrial jungle pussy punk." Some sort of reason behind this? I've put it back.. Wikipedia is not the place to be shy about words when it's a direct quote from the band.

Not hip-hop.
MSI are NOT hip-hop in any way, shape or form. Jimmy might do quick vocals sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're hip-hop. Proposal to remove the word hip-hop from the description of their music. BlackSlivers 01:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Frankenstein Girls Will Seem Strangley Sexy is an album heavily influenced by both rap and hip hop. Now You'll rebel to Anything is significantly less influenced by these genres. The newest Mindless Rip Off has some more hip hop in it.

Bring the Pain is a cover of Method Man's first single. In FGWSSS there is alot of influence from 90's hip hop.-Psychoxpanda

MSI also remixed Notorious B.I.G.'s "Big Poppa." Pretty much undisputable that there's a good deal of hip-hop influence. ZachPG 21:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

MSI is definately influenced by Hip Hop, but I wouldn't categorize them as such. Perhaps a rewording is called for? I have changed the article from: Their music is a blend of metal, electronica, punk, and hip-hop. to instead read: Their music is a blend of metal and electronica with a heavy punk and hip-hop influence. Gravee 03:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I hate to argue semantics, but it seems to me that it would be more appropriate to say they are a blend of punk and electronica with heavy metal and hip-hop influence, or, to avoid confusion, heavy hip-hop and metal influence. ZachPG 22:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I think we should review what it says now, because, what the hell is "heavy punk" supposed to be? :And even if there is such a thing, is Mindless Self Indulgence really part of that genre? Proposal to review what it says... again. Psycho Panda 14:06, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure if this was your point behind the above post, but it's not saying the band is influenced by "Heavy Punk" and "Hip-Hop", it's saying that the influence from Punk and Hip-Hop is a heavy one. I propose a change reading: "Their music is a blend of rock and electronica, also pulling heavy influences from punk and hip-hop music. This is often referred to as acid punk." Kurayami Eternal 17:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You act as if them being a little hip hop or having some influence in their music is some horrible thing. If you actually listened to some of their songs you would notice that they do have some hip hop influence in it. Espically in their songs bullshit and faggot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.232.194 (talk) 23:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

 * They are categorized as hip hop on allmusicguide. --Neon white 23:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

As much as I hate to admit it, there is a hip-hop influence in there but I would never consider them hip-hop. I think the hip-hop genre should be removed and a punk genre should be added. I think they sound like a Metal-Punk-Electronica band which I believe would be "Electropunk". I think they only vaguely resemble Industrial so I would begin to question allmusic as a reliable reference. In short: In my opinion the only genres that really belong there are Electropunk and maybe Industrial. 99.251.137.190 (talk) 03:58, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Anyone idiotic enough to think they are a hip-hop band has clearly never heard them or seen them play live. 124.148.235.41 (talk) 05:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC) Sutter Cane

Fair use rationale for Image:MSI-TIGHT.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:MindlessSelfIndulgenceAlienatingOurAudience.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:MindlessSelfIndulgence(Album).jpg
Image:MindlessSelfIndulgence(Album).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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History/Biography
Both sections contain a lot redundant information. Could someone clean it up? I will do it myself when I have some free time at my hands. --Autoplombe 22:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

reversion to past article
could we please, please PLEASE revert back to this revision? the article has really gone to shit since then. fjak 09:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.150.79.251 (talk) 06:05, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

biased
this article is clearly biased. example: "They also use clever lyrics and stance to give meaning to songs, such as "You'll rebel to anything," which is a song that talks about how punk culture is being exploited by misdirected youths as a way to be unique or get noticed."

Someone needs to change this.

 * Do you mean the arictle is POV? If you think so, feel free to make what changes you feel are necessary. ZachPG 20:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism not fixed
I reverted to this version on 4 July as old vandalism was not repaired properly (the bottom of the article got cut off). Can the regular editors restore any useful edits made in the interim period? Thanks. Carcharoth 12:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use criteria
The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — M o e   ε  05:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Concert setting
Actually, the first day of Voodoo Fest in 2003 was in Memphis; the second day was in New Orleans. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.142.221 (talk • contribs)

Guitar Hero 3
An edit made claims that Straight to Video will be on Guitar Hero 3. I don't belive it, and I demand some viable proof. [User:Keaton|Keaton] 11:21pm EST. 5 August 2007.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Msi.jpg
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Genres
I think the genres in the infobox are a little excessive. --Neon white 02:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The genre of late[] of late were listed: "Industrial Jungle Pussy [Punk]]", I don't believe this is even a genre.  Doktor  Wilhelm   20:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It was claimed that this was a something they had described there music as, it isn't genre so was rightfully removed, i also removed the claim from the lead as the citation is dead and the source wasnt a particularly verifiable site anyway, plus a self-attributed quote in the lead is not great. -- neon white user page talk 20:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

MSI's genre is not Hip-Hop, and not Shock Rock. Shock Rock is for bands like Alice Cooper.

No MSI's genre is Industrial Jungle Pussy Punk. For fuck sake they've even admitted to it. And since when did what Rolling Stones and VHS become credible sources for naming a bands genre? Please refrain from changing it from Industrial Jungle Pussy Punk to whatever you may THINK it is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.117.227 (talk) 13:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Made up genres by bands dont go in the infobox. VHS is a type of video cassette and the rolling stones are a band. However VH1 is a major music tv channel and rolling stone is probably the most prominent and reputable music magazine ever produced. Do not remove cited genres or otherwise vandalise this article further. -- neon white user page talk 16:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

. Shock
 * That isn't a genre, it's a mixture of random genres!  Doktor  Wilhelm   16:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Its hardly a mix of random genres. Its industrial because of its rhythmic beats, as heard in Straight to Video. Jungle because of its electronic bouncy sound. And Punk because of its shock value, and whole attitude. I really dont agree with describing them as Hip Hop, its fine to say that they sound like it, but not to say they are Hip Hop Jelnock (talk) 22:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)Jelnock (talk)

 * Industrial is already cited. They haven't the slighest thing in common with jungle music. Shock rock is also cited. They have been described as hip hop. Remember wikipedia represents verifiable sources not personal opinions. -- neon white user page talk 22:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

 * The mix of genres, are not a genre in it's self! The genres shown fit the actual style of the band: Industrial fits the sound, Hip-hop fits the vocal style, and Shock Rock fits their image, as well as stage show (both musically and visually).  Doktor  Wilhelm   22:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Boiled down, they're Electric Punk Hip Hop. Electric covers all the programming by Jimmy, their guitar and shows are punk, and Jimmy raps real fast, turntables are used in songs, a lot of their beat is hip hop. So that covers it. But! You'll find elements from all kinds of music in their songs because Jimmy rips a lot of stuff off from other music. "I’ll listen to every single thing that comes out and steal pieces of it. I’ll listen to something and I’ll go WOW that was the worst rap I’ve ever heard but that track was amazing and I’m going to rip off that kick drum from that track. Go on Limewire and download the track or stuff like that. Or someone will play something from a soundtrack and you’ll hear a song in the background and you’ll go ‘what was that song, I’ve never heard that song before.’ Just taking pieces and listening to little bits to make new and different stuff. That’s how I work with music" http://www.musicpix.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=477 And shock is a decal that can be slapped on any band of any genre it doesn't mean much really. And The band said they don't want the Industrial Jungle Pussy Punk attached to them anymore. They said too many people took it too seriously.

 * They are cited as both. Do not remove them again. -- neon white user page talk 02:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

 * MSI does not play industrial--as in Throbbing Gristle, Einstürzende Neubauten, SPK, etc. They do play stuff that is closer to industrial rock, like Foetus, Chrome, etc. Industrial is NOT rhythmic music, it is experimental, ambient, and at times closer to post-punk/ punk rock than new wave or EBM. Electro-industrial is the more rhythmic, danceable industrial music being talked about on this page--Tactical Sekt, Wumpscut, VAC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.221.31 (talk) 23:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I can;t find any reason my Little Jimmy Urine is notable enough to warrent a seperate article. --Neon white 02:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

i don't think that little jimmy urine would even have a place in the Mindless Self Indulgence article, i think he should be kept as a seperate article. There is enough information about him and there isn't any wrong information —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.167.138 (talk) 00:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The info is largely trivia and most is unsourced OR. Regardless of whether it is correct or not, the article doesnt meet criteria on notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neon white (talk • contribs) 18:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This has been discussed before, dont merge it, it wouldn't wit the Mindless Self Indulgence article would look sloppy and bad, i suggest someone just fix up the Little Jimmy Urine article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.167.138 (talk) 06:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree a redirect would probably be better as most of that page is unsourced trivia. --Neon white (talk) 03:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Neon White, it seems that you've already decided to do all this, with out any real discussion about the band members who's articles you have deleted! I believe they are notable, as do others, I will bring the articles back until it can be proven that they aren't notable, and it's not just your POV. Sorry for any trouble caused! Instead of deleting things, why not help find citation?  Doktor  Wilhelm   12:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The proposal has been made for 10 days, that's long enough for discussion and objections. They are not notable according to the guidelines, whether you think they are is not a criteria for notability. We do not attempt to prove negatives, on wikipedia you need to prove notability (not disprove it) according to WP:MUSIC guideline, in particular the fact that a member has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. I have looked and cannot find any such articles if you believe there are some that i have not been able to find then please present them otherwise there is no reason to keep the article as most of it as it stands could be removed as unsourced trivia. --Neon white (talk) 20:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Also, it's 2 against 1 for keeping the articles, and not merging at the moment. Just because You believe they aren't notable, really doesn't mean the articles need deleting (without any attempt to merge them into the bands article)! I'll see if I can work on finding some souces and such, as time allows! (I'm actually in favour of the merger of bands if the members are of the same level of notability as the band it's self, such as you couldn't imagine one without the other, but I guess that could lead to problems)  Doktor  Wilhelm   22:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

 * wikipedia is not a democracy. My POV has nothing to do with it, he simply doesnt fit the guidelines on notability unless substantial sources can be found. There simply is no point in having a stub article. No-one has proposed the article for deletion. Though most of it could be delete on the grounds of unsourced controversial material about a living person. --Neon white (talk) 01:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Doktor_Wilhelm is right, it's 2 against one, you are the only one who feels it should be changed. noone else does —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.167.138 (talk) 08:03, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Again wikipedia is not a democracy. That won't be mentioned again. If it does not pass Notability guidelines it needs to be either deleted or removed and as of yet, there has been no independent articles about the subject provided. --Neon white (talk) 22:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * So it's okay for you to do as you please? This is a discussion for the merger, as such the discussion had shown that it shouldn't be merged!  Doktor  Wilhelm   14:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

If Neon white and others of his ilk had their way, this project could better be named Wikitionary than Wikipedia. Above and beyond all other goals of perfection in spelling, formatting, referencing, attributing, quoting and everything else that pads out the rules here, Wikipedia's articles need to be useful to readers and researchers. Overly zealous editing deprives readers of much of the information they come to Wikipedia to find. Picking nits over references or the validity of provided references wastes a lot of time and energy with exceedingly little improvement added to Wikipedia. DrDelos (talk) 03:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

 * verifiability and reliable sources are a fundamental policy of wikipedia. see WP:RS and WP:V. It stops it from becoming a collection of personal opinions. Depriving readers of badly sourced, unsourced or just false material is exactly a policy of wikipedia. The article in question contains no info that couldn't be included here after all the OR and trivia is removed. --Neon white 16:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I think we should keep the article separate. Info about his sexuality, marriage, and concert persona would look sloppy on the MSI article. Blindeffigy 11:44, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

 * The marriage would be ok as long as we can find a reliable source for it, it's not uncommon to have small sections about members on band pages. The other stuff is largely OR so wouldn't be necessarily merged anyway. Nevertheless i'm still prepared to wait to see if any articles of note are found. --Neon white 15:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I have changed my mind to MERGE them all, the articles as they are now are a waste, but all the references and such need to be put into the Mindless Self Indulgence article, as it is missing many (well both) of them... I've tried to merge all relevent crap into the main article, now all is needed is for some kind soul to sort out the redirecion of every thing, if that is what is needed! Sorry to anyone how think the articles should be kept as is, I just think it'll be less trouble this way!  Doktor  Wilhelm   22:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that was ME that merged the info from the band members —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.167.138 (talk) 15:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You forgot the references though! (so I copied them)  Doktor  Wilhelm   16:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

 * A few issues snetences like He is known for many of his stage antics. and He usually wears jackets with catch phrases on the back like "As Seen on TV", "Kick Me", "Rock My Hole", "We Are Gods", "Cute Lead Singer", "Crap", "Kiss Me $1", and various other catch phrases are unsourced and are original reserch. Do we have sources for these? Is the page now to be redirected? --Neon white 18:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Neon, I believe it was you who said "Wikipedia is not a Democracy" no? I assume that you must be an admin based on the time you spend here and your profound interest in doing away with the page but I am new to the site and am not sure if you mean that the admins decided by "consensus" or that you and a few users made the call?  Please excuse me if this isn't the place for the convo, just getting my feet on the site, I'll catch on in no time.  I can source the catchphrases on the jackets if need be but not sure how relevant that part of the bio is.  I've sourced the talk of his outfits and the trademark style he has which is emulated by others. I'm going to look around to see if any of the remixes he has done are online and link one or two to source that. --BillH  1:59, December 12, 2007  —Preceding comment was added at 07:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

 * The consensus is above. It was decided that the person in question could not be verified as notabile according to the guidelines at WP:MUSIC which is a guideline for editors so we can decide who is worth of a seperate article. Generally subjects that don't have much notablity have their pages merged into the article that they are associated with in this case the band. All info that is sourced has been included into this article. If there are only a few users involved in the debate, then they make the call, admins only really decide speedy deletes, everything else is decided by wikipedia editors and any editor can have a say. If you can source things then they are best put in the relevant place in this article. But most of those alone arent really enough to prove notability outside of the band. --Neon white (talk) 00:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Bill H has a wikipedia page, dude, if thats reall bill h neon white, listen to him. he like knows MSI and stuff —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.166.36 (talk) 01:17, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Every editor has a user page, i'm not sure what your point is. Liking the subject of an article makes you no better an editor than anyone else it fact quite the opposite in some cases. --Neon white (talk) 19:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Neon, when the consensus wasn't in your favor you stated that "Wikipedia is not a democracy" but now you are citing consensus as your justification. Which is it? If you are going to play wiki police and pretend to be a person of importance on the site consistency would be helpful. BillH (talk) 04:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

 * No i didn't, a consensus was formed by the editors involved and no-one objected. Decisions are not made by voting they are made based on the guidelines and policies. I have never proclaimed any more importance than any other editor. If you want to make a claim that this subject is notable enough to have a seperate article then present enough info and reliable sources and which point on [WP:MUSIC] he qualifies under at the current i don't believe the info we have needs a seperate article. --Neon white (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

this is nothing but insane hypocrisies spewing out for the public to see -- how embarrassing! for someone so concerned about the "fairness" of a wikipedia article, why is it you believe that we should handle this in whichever fashion best benefits YOUR argument, neon? sounds like biased and uneven thinking. if that is the case, i agree with bill h. this should NOT be merged. how many more needed for "consensus"? (Indecisean (talk) 05:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC))

 * Please read WP:N, WP:MUSIC and WP:BIO and also a good read on how to edit in a civil manner would help you here. Your argument is not based on anything more than a personal POV. Wikipedia doesn't base it's content on your personal opinion of who you think should have an article. He needs to meet criteria on notability and so far over a month after the proposal was first made, the criteria is not met, if you can provide second party reliable sources than prove notability then do so, if you cannot then there is no real reason to recreate the article. As is stated on WP:BIO The person must have been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject As i said before the sourced portions is now here the rest was unsourced OR and was correctly removed according to wikipedia policy on unsourced info in articles about a living person. --Neon white (talk) 20:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Neon White, i know that every user has a wikipedia page. My point was that BillH could make the wikipedia page notable because he knows MSI. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.166.36 (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

 * That really has no baring at all. Anything added must be sourced by a verifiable source. Other than that he would have a conflict of interest and therefore his edits would have to be thoroughly checked by other editors. If he feels he can improve the article to the point where it can stand by it's own then he is welcome to do so but to simply revert it to the poor state that lead to the merge in the first place is not contsructive at all. --Neon white (talk) 01:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Are the band member articles going to be merged/redirected into this one? They seem rather small and Lyn-Z seems to be prone to a lot of vandalism (namely to info about her marrage and age), it'd be easier to keep evrything inline if there was only one page with the biography details of the individual members on.  Doktor  Wilhelm   05:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I think it was left a while to see if any more reliable sources could be found, but it's been a while and nothing significant seems to have arrived so feel free to merge them if you think that will improve things. -- neon white user page talk 15:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I would have a go merging them myself, but I'm rubbish at working out what needs to kept from one article or the other, and what doesn't.  Doktor  Wilhelm   23:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Nothing needed merging really, everything on that page was what was already in the main article which justifies the merge as the article was redundant. -- neon white user page talk 20:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I resent this merge
As someone who watches Lyn Z (which I originally edited because a friend contacted me about the article being a complete mess) but not Mindless Self Indulgence, I resent this merge. Lyn Z came out of an AfD with consensus to keep, suggesting that just casually removing the content because you would rather it was somewhere else is bad without real discussion. And no, I do not count this as real discussion- there were no tags, and there wasn't even a mention on the talk pages of the pages which you have just as good as deleted. I am not going to revert your changes, I am just explaining that the process followed here was, at best, abysmal. J Milburn (talk) 20:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

 * There had been tags, that's how I found out about all this merger stuff (though they keep being removed) and all mergr discussion was directer here, I believe? everything of notability and with refrence is present in the Mindless Self Indulgence page, and hopfully the sections on band members will grow too big with notability and refrences, that they will again get their own articles.  Doktor  Wilhelm   20:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The afd was nearly three months ago and only one person contributed to the afd claiming that she was notable because she was a permanent member of a notable band, which is contrary to guidelines at WP:MUSIC, it should not really have been closed at that stage. The only reason the result was keep was because there was no consensus to delete. There is, however, a consensus to merge, if you read the points above. -- neon white  user page talk 17:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * My point is that this discussion was not properly advertised. If myself and a couple of other editors all agree on something on a message board somewhere, we can't claim we have consensus. This was not even a mention of this on Talk:Lyn Z, which means that consesnsus was decided by those who discuss the matter here, not all those who may have interest in any of the affected articles. Look at it this way- I create an article called List of bands with the word mindless in the name, and a couple of other editors help me write it. We mention Mindless Self Indulgence and a few garage bands, then the three of us decide to merge Mindless Self Indulgence there. Is that consensus? Erm, no. I admit, the AfD was a little poor, but if you have issue with the closure, you should raise the matter with Seraphim Whipp, the closing admin, or perhaps start a deletion review, not just ignore it and do as you please. I repeat my original comments- this merge was out of process, and you are dangerously close to acting as if you own these articles. J Milburn (talk) 18:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Merges are not required to be adverised or discussed in any way, if an editor feels it would improve the encyclopedia they can perform the merge without discussion as long as it's done properly and not likely to be controversial, see Merge seen as the info is already in this article and laregy related to this band there is little point in keeping a redundant article and therefore the merge was incredibly unlikely to be controversial and was part of the normal editing process. Nobody owns articles. Please remember to discuss matters in a civil manner. -- neon white user page talk 22:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Please don't challenge my civility, I am being perfectly civil. I know that merges need not be discussed, only citing consensus when the relevent instances have not been informed is rather bad practice. J Milburn (talk) 22:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You have failed to assume good faith and made baseless accusation against aditors, this is not being civil. -- neon white user page talk 18:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ironically, that is a baseless statement. Where have I not assumed good faith? Where have I made baseless accusations? I stand by what I have said. J Milburn (talk) 19:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Jimmy Urine.jpg
Image:Jimmy Urine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:42, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Editting Needed
The Mindless Self Indulgence page seems to be in dire need of re-writing, specifically in the Band Members section. There are numerous grammatical errors that should be corrected immediately. Maxwell's Daemon (talk) 22:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Correction to opening paragraph
I'm not really familiar with editing Wikipedia, but I noticed that the opening paragraph said Lyn-Z was among the founding members of the band, when she was not. I corrected it by replacing her name with Vanessa YT, who is, in fact, the original bassist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.153.250 (talk) 22:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Question
Should we consider Mindless Self-Indulgence a solo album by Jimmy Urine, as opposed to an album by the band? I mean Steve, played guitar on "Bed Of Roses", but he wasn't a member of the band at the time, and Kitty and Vanessa had yet to be even heard of. Lord Weasel (talk) 03:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.174.214.98 (talk) 00:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed Band Member Photos
Each band member doesn't need their own photo, especially since we have a full band photo that accurately depicts each member. Chouonsoku (talk) 23:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

But where in the band photo says who is who? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.150.66.95 (talk) 19:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Unless the caption is labelled to say who is who, then the seperate photos can be removed. The article will look a lot cleaner.

Opening For Bands
I was just wondering why it mentions the list of bands they've opened for, twice; once in the intro and once in the actual bio?? Grungedude22 (talk) 18:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

this page is screwed up =(
okay, why does it say this band was formed in 1997 if the first album was made in 1995? One of those years is wrong, if not then someone inform me on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.119.197.242 (talk) 23:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

 * No, it's correct. The band WAS formed in 1997, the record called Mindless Self-Indulgence is just a solo album by Jimmy Urine.

It was just a project and it's technically not their first record. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.150.66.95 (talk) 19:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I believe that the years active should be 1997 - Present rather than what it is currently being set to, yes that was solo album of the same name and not a contribution from the group. 82.7.41.213 (talk) 20:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

"I just want a hug"
Please, limit yourselves to adding only relevant information to the page and not just whatever you think will look cool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.174.207.67 (talk) 01:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Lyn Z
Info box says she is a past member, prose never mentions her leaving, half way down it has the member list and she isnt in either part, and the template has her as current. WTF? PXK  T /C   22:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, this sentence "She plays an acoustic drum kit which supposedly is augmented by backing tracks consisting of sampled "loops" for the live show." is confusing and unsupported. Why is it in doubt (supposed) that she augments the acoustic kit with loops during shows? Who doubts it, and what does that imply? Can someone verify/clarify/site resources? 131.107.0.73 (talk) 17:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Not that I really care, but I've been to 4 of their live shows, and she DEFINATLY plays acoustic drums over the albums drum tracks. Its clear as day. I'll be a first hand source and tell you, I've heard it live. Aspensti (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

"Jimmy Urine formerly Little Jimmy Urine"
Why? Like, did he grow or something?
 * Umm... yeah, probably. Either that or he thought having "Little" before his (nick)name is not cool. Whatever. 194.213.41.2 (talk) 14:26, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I heard on the next album he will be credited as "Sizeable Jimmy Urine" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.189.5 (talk) 02:44, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Confusing
At the end of the 'Steve, Righ?' section, it repeats itself, but saying the same thing in a different way.

81.110.187.3 (talk) 17:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

History?
Shouldn't there be a section on the band's history? Titan50 (talk) 17:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Who removed all the singles, and EPs?
Are they not relevant to MSI? --24.170.255.73 (talk) 21:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Because Mindless Self Indulgence discography exists and listing everything in both places is redundant. If the artist has a discography article as well, usually only the studio albums are listed in the band's article. TheJazzDalek (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The discography page doesn't give any information about the CDs other than its release date, and their lable. I'm sure people would want to know more then that the CDs just simply exist. --24.170.255.73 (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The band's notable releases all have their own articles. Wikipedia isn't meant to a repository for every bit of information about everything that's ever existed. (See WP:IINFO for more on that subject.) An in-depth discography with complete info for every release belongs on a fansite, or perhaps a wiki about the band (if one doesn't exist, check out wikia.com as one place you could start one). TheJazzDalek (talk) 13:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see how their EPs aren't notable, also the already existing wikia, and fansites that I saw were lacking in information. --24.170.255.73 (talk) 18:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Check the EPs against the notability criteria at WP:NALBUMS and you will find they all come up short. If the band has a wiki on wikia and you find it lacking, then you might want to consider helping to improve it. TheJazzDalek (talk) 22:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * AMRO Meets the needed criteria, as it isn't a promo-only, demo, bootleg, mix, or an unreleased album, and from my knowledge had sufficient article-length, and enough cites. With the fan-made wikia "lacking" is an understatment in this case, and I wouldn't feel like making 200+ pages all by my lonesome. --24.170.255.73 (talk) 02:23, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What part of the criteria does it meet though? Just being a commercial release by a notable band is not enough. It needs to have charted or received media attention, to give two examples. TheJazzDalek (talk) 12:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you're looking at the criteria for "Musicians and Ensembles." If the same guidelines follow for their albums as well, I could name some albums, singles, etc. that have neither recieved media attention, or have been charted, but still have a page. Someone also deleted the Left Rights page, and merged it with MSI. That was a full album, and is not listed in the bands discography page as the Left Rights are another band. What excuse did this one have to be deleted? --24.170.255.73 (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * See Articles for deletion/Another Mindless Rip Off and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The Left Rights were a side-project of the band that did a one-off "joke" album. It's fine to mention them within the context of MSI but their sole release is not notable on its own and doesn't deserve a separate article. TheJazzDalek (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of giving me wiki links could you maybe answer it in your own words? --24.170.255.73 (talk) 04:56, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Early Years
This article seems to be missing a lot of information about the band prior to their 'break'. There's no mention of their many collaborations with similar acts, for instance - repeated shows and recordings with bands like PT Grimm, Bettys Trash, or The O, for instance. I don't believe any of the other acts satisfy notability but certainly warrent a mention in this article for things like Urine appearing on King James' Chokehold Radio, PT Grimm releasing their remix of 'Faggot' or MSI's sponsorship and support for The O. There were several bands coexisting and exchanging fanbases in a mostly-unnamed scene around the late nineties, of which MSI was the only to really break it big. I'll try to dig up some reliable sources, but are there any opposed to such an addition?
 * If reliable sources can be found and the collaborations can be shown to be notable* incidents in MSI's career, then yeah, go for it. But if it just ends up as a list of non-notable bands who used to hang out/play together with MSI, that won't add anything of value to the article and should be discouraged.
 * * - By "notable" I don't mean it has to be of major importance, but it should be a little more than "someone did a remix" or "this one time someone played a song onstage with this other band". TheJazzDalek (talk) 12:35, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable. I'll try to dig up some sources in the next day or two (it's a bit tough, since I'm in Afghanistan with crappy internet). I'm reasonably certain I can dig up reliable sources for The O since they were actually signed to/promoted by Uppity Cracker, I'll try to find some solid refs for PT Grimm and Bettys Trash as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.82.22 (talk) 07:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Year they were formed...
I thought it was 1995?--68.92.238.206 (talk) 02:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

It's kind of late to answer this, but no, it was 1997. At least, that's when the band started to be active. Jimmy did a little solo project called "Mindless Self-Indulgence" own his own in 1995. - Lips Of Deceit (talk) 16:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Now they're Synthpunk???
MSI's whole wiki page is a shining cornucopia of wikipedia's assorted failures. The most important being when everybody edits something the point is lost. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.130.149 (talk) 17:38, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

-Agreed, msi's specific genre isn't much more than an opinion. Nex Carnifex (talk) 15:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

On the notability of thier singles.
Am I the only one that finds suggesting some of their most well known songs like Straight to Video, Issues, Pay for It and Mastermind are not notable enough to have their own aricles while more obscure songs like Evening Wear/Mark David Chapman are as a bit nonsenseical? Plus Mindless Self Indulgence is the only band I know, excluding exstremelt obscure bands that are only known to a very small group of people, so not have an article on everyone one of their singles. What makes them less notable? Robo37 (talk) 09:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

About the members
The information regarding the members make up a great portion of the content in the article. I think these information (which are mostly unsourced) should be merged with the individual articles of the band members as their inclusion here is against the formatting. Myxomatosis75 (talk) 16:59, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect Info and Obvious Vandalism
Obvious vandalism first: under band members: "Ryan Ross - Flute (1997-present)" Active years state "1995–2016 (hiatus)" which is incorrect, firstly they are not in a full-on hiatus which can easily be verified by the fact that PINK was released after said hiatus started, and this hiatus started in 2015, not 2016, and is only a break from touring, nothing more, and thus "1995-present" would be more accurate, citation for the hiatus is this article: http://www.kerrang.com/16974/gerard-way-speaks-mindless-self-indulgence-hiatus/ and here is MSI's official statement: http://mindlessselfindulgence.com/news/jimmy-urine-gonna-break-unless-somebody-dies/ 94.215.48.236 (talk) 07:57, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Vandalism
Some Twitter kids think they are being REALLY cute and keep trying to vandalize this page with the 'racism' edits. Could we get some better protection? Thanks. 172.58.102.221 (talk) 19:18, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Sexual assault allegations against Jimmy Urine
Hi, I thought we should have a section for discussion of this contentious issue, especially how it relates to autism spectrum disorder. I hope we can all agree this case has nothing to do with autism and can avoid conflating the two in any edits. Or at least offer sourced counterarguments in the event any sources emerging trying to link Euringer's autism to so-called "infantilism" that can result in predatory behavior of this ilk. I want to make it clear there is ABSOLUTELY NO grounding for linking these two things in a person. People will any neurotype can commit any crime, you are not more likely to do so simply by being autistic, so let's remember that when editing the article. Lynchenberg (talk) 17:16, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Is it necessary to have this section in this page? The same section verbatim is in the Jimmy Urine article. DTB (talk) 00:52, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There's no reason information that affects two different, albeit connected, subjects cannot be represented in articles for both. A similar example would be the sexual offense charges against Ian Watkins (Lostprophets singer) being noted in section of his article as well as the Lostprophets article. Information is not required to remain exclusive to one article. As far as it being verbatim, that's why the attribution rule exists when copying and pasting from one article to another in the first place. As far as the information itself, many of the events described in the charges revolved around live performances and recording sessions of Mindless Self Indulgence. It also has a direct effect on the band's future, if there is one. NJZombie (talk) 01:25, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

"Hiatus"
i don't wanna be that guy and i'd love for MSI to be back just as much as anyone else would, but lyn-z, kitty and steve are in their 40s, jimmy's in his 50s, they all have kids and with all the 'drama' surrounding them? i very much doubt they'll be back from a 7 year hiatus unless it's a bit of a cash grab.

then again, it's not entirely impossible, and maybe it's just me struggling to imagine 56 (?) year old jimmy urine singing get it up on stage - but i don't think calling it a hiatus is the truth anymore. 88.107.200.20 (talk) 06:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

 * While I agree they’re probably done, we go by what can be verified with a source and the list verifiable information is that they had taken time off. When something can be found that verifies that they have decided to not ever get back together, then it can be added along with said source.
 * NJZombie (talk) 12:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mindless Self Indulgence


text:
Shields River

The Shields River is a tributary of the Yellowstone River, 65.4 mi long, in Meagher and Park Counties Montana in the United States.

It rises in the Gallatin National Forest in the Crazy Mountains in northern Park County. It flows west, then south, between the Bridger Range to the west and the Crazy Mountains to the east, past Wilsall and Clyde Park. It joins the Yellowstone approximately 10 mi (16 km) northeast of Livingston. The Shields River was named for John Shields (explorer), a member of the Lewis and Clark Expedition.

The river hosts native Yellowstone cutthroat trout and Mountain whitefish as well as introduced brown and rainbow trout.

title: Shields River


text:
Cave In

Cave In is an American rock band that formed in 1995 in Methuen, Massachusetts. The band's lineup solidified with the 1998 release of Until Your Heart Stops through Hydra Head Records, and their early albums were prominent in the metalcore scene. The band later experimented with other genres, receiving mainstream recognition for their 2003 RCA Records album Antenna and its lead single "Anchor," which had an overall alternative rock style. The group went on hiatus in 2006, later reforming in 2009 with the release of the Planets of Old EP, followed by the White Silence LP in 2011, both of which saw a return to Cave In's earlier and heavier sound.

Formation and early releases (1995–1998)
Cave In was formed by Jay Frechette and Stephen Brodsky in the early spring of 1995, when the two began to write songs in Jay's parents' basement. They named themselves Cave-In as a homage to the Codeine song, Cave-In, from the album Frigid Stars. The initial line-up consisted of Frechette on vocals, Brodsky on guitar and vocals, Adam McGrath on second guitar, JR Conners on drums and Justin Matthes on bass. They would soon release a demo and a handful of split 7-inch releases with bands such as Gambit, Piebald and Early Grace, and see Matthes briefly replaced by Andy Kyte. 1997 saw Cave In's first release; a self-titled 7-inch on Aaron Turner's Hydra Head Records. Following that release, the band embarked on a three-week East Coast tour, with a handful of dates supporting Morning Again and Bird of Ill Omen. That tour was, however, cut a week short due to Jay Frechette's prior obligations to join and tour with Boston-based Ten Yard Fight. After Frechette returned from a month on tour with Ten Yard Fight it was a mutual decision for him to leave Cave In and to join Ten Yard Fight full-time. At this point, Dave Scrod stepped in for a short-lived tenure as interim vocalist. In 1998, most tracks from previous 7-inch releases and recordings were compiled to form Beyond Hypothermia.

Until Your Heart Stops and Jupiter (1998–2001)
Two weeks before the band was to record their first proper full-length, Scrod left the band, pushing guitarist Stephen Brodsky to a position as vocalist, and Caleb Scofield filled in the then-vacant position on bass. Their 1998 debut studio album Until Your Heart Stops featured Brodsky as lead vocalist. The album's release was followed by extensive touring.

Before their next full-length, Cave In began experimenting with their sound offering Creative Eclipses, a five-song EP which indicated a space rock direction the band would then pursue for several years, as opposed to their metal roots. Then, in 2000, they released Jupiter, receiving a good deal of press. The band was featured in Spin Magazine's "Sound Advice" section, where their new sound was described as "emo-metal Radiohead", though the band themselves rejected this categorization. Jupiter also caught the attention of major labels, who began courting the band after its release.

RCA Records and Antenna (2001–2004)
In April 2001, the band signed to RCA Records. In 2002, they recorded and released a six-song EP for Hydra Head, titled Tides of Tomorrow, with an even further-expanded melodic approach. In 2003, the band released Antenna, their debut for RCA. Antenna had more success than previous albums and Cave In was chosen to play the second stage on the 2003 Lollapalooza tour. After Lollapalooza, Cave In toured Europe in support of the Foo Fighters and Muse. The band began to revisit their metal roots during concerts, and started writing heavier material, which ultimately led to a mutual agreement to cut ties with RCA Records shortly after.

Perfect Pitch Black and hiatus (2005–2006)
Cave In returned to Hydra Head Records and released Perfect Pitch Black on September 13, 2005.

Following the release of Perfect Pitch Black, Conners departed from the band, due to an injury and temporarily relocating to Germany, and was replaced by Converge drummer Ben Koller. With Koller, the band recorded the songs "Shapeshifter" and "Dead Already," which were released as a cassette single that was sold during 2005–2006 tours. According to postings on Hydra Head Records website news, Adam McGrath was temporarily listed as "ex-Cave In guitarist" in his new band Clouds.

In November 2006, Cave In announced that they were officially on hiatus.

Reformation, Planets of Old and White Silence (2009–2016)
In April 2009, Cave In publicly announced they had ended their more than three year hiatus. The band recorded a new four-song EP, Planets of Old, that was originally exclusive to vinyl from Hydra Head Records, and first made available at their reunion show on July 19, 2009, at Great Scott's in Allston, Massachusetts. The EP was later released on CD in January 2010 with a bonus DVD of Cave In's reunion show. Two songs from the EP, "Retina Sees Rewind" and "Cayman Tongue", were released through iTunes. Cave In chose to make Planets of Old a short EP instead of a full-length because it was less expensive and faster to record and release. Commenting on the duration of recording, Steve Brodsky stated, "we didn't really wanna make a big deal out of it. In the past, we've had more than a couple instances of spending far too long into making a recording. [...] It was a good exercise for us to give ourselves a very strict amount of time to record and then move on."

Looking forward, Brodsky announced in a January 2010 interview that Cave In will be more selective about their touring schedule, and that future releases from the band might be more focused on a digital medium. Brodsky uploaded a live audio recording of a new song titled "Centered" in July 2010 on YouTube. The song comes from Cave In's recording sessions for an upcoming studio album, and first since Perfect Pitch Black in 2005. The new album White Silence was released on May 24, 2011, through Hydra Head Records.

Shortly after tours in support of White Silence, Cave In entered an undeclared-hiatus state as all of the band members shifted focus on their other respective projects. On December 7, 2014, Cave In performed live for the first time in 3 years, opening for Doomriders' tenth anniversary show.

Death of Caleb Scofield and Final Transmission (2017–2020)
Cave In engaged in at least two "jam sessions" in late 2017 and early 2018 with "some new stuff in the works," presumably for a planned new release.

On March 28, 2018, Scofield died in a car accident after striking a toll booth on the Everett Turnpike in Bedford, New Hampshire.

The band played and scheduled a series of benefit shows to raise money for Scofield's family, with his brother Kyle Scofield and Nate Newton of Converge covering his parts. Scofield's side project, Old Man Gloom, shared the bill at each event, with Brodsky taking Scofield's place in its lineup. The 2018 shows also featured an encore set of Zozobra songs, performed by a revolving lineup of musicians who had participated in that project.

On January 2, 2019, Cave In announced plans to release a new studio album. The band released its sixth studio album Final Transmission through Hydra Head on June 7, 2019. The album is composed of practice-space demos that all feature contributions from Scofield and were finished with mixing by Andrew Schneider and mastering by James Plotkin.

Signing to Relapse and Heavy Pendulum (2021–present)
Cave In signed to Relapse Records in July 2021 and released their seventh studio album through the label on May 20, 2022. The album title was revealed in March 2022 as Heavy Pendulum, and the announcement was accompanied by the release of a single titled "New Reality". The album's second single, "Blinded by a Blaze", was released on April 5; the song's music video was released the same day. The third single, "Blood Spiller", was released on April 26. The fourth single, "Reckoning", is the first Cave In song to be fully written by guitarist Adam McGrath and was released on May 10.

Members
Current members
 * Stephen Brodsky – lead vocals, lead guitar, bass, keyboards (1995–2006, 2009–present)
 * Adam McGrath – rhythm guitar, backing vocals, keyboards (1995–2006, 2009–present)
 * John-Robert Conners – drums, keyboards (1995–2005, 2009–present)
 * Nate Newton – bass, backing vocals, rhythm guitar (2018–present)

Former members
 * Jay Frechette – lead vocals (1995–1997)
 * Justin Matthes – bass (1995–1997)
 * Andy Kyte – bass (1997)
 * Dave Scrod – lead vocals (1997–1998)
 * Travis Shettel – bass (1998)
 * Caleb Scofield – bass, lead vocals (1998–2006, 2009–2018; his death)
 * Ben Koller – drums (2005–2006)

Discography
Studio albums
 * Until Your Heart Stops (1998)
 * Jupiter (2000)
 * Antenna (2003)
 * Perfect Pitch Black (2005)
 * White Silence (2011)
 * Final Transmission (2019)
 * Heavy Pendulum (2022)

Side projects

 * Mutoid Man (Cave In and Converge member side project)
 * Kid Kilowatt (Cave In and Converge member side project)
 * Old Man Gloom (Caleb Scofield's side project)
 * New Idea Society (Stephen Brodsky's side project)
 * Pet Genius (Stephen Brodsky's and J.R. Conners' side project)
 * Sacrifice Poles (Cave In's instrumental alter-ego)
 * The Octave Museum (Stephen Brodsky's side project)
 * Zozobra (Caleb Scofield's side project)
 * Clouds (Adam McGrath's current project)
 * Stephen Brodsky (Solo projects, also released as Steve Brodsky and Stove Bredsky)
 * Nomad Stones (Adam McGrath's and J.R. Connors' side project)

title: Cave In


text:
User:Bkonrad/Michigan

__NOINDEX__

Michigan Pioneers
Index of persons profiled in Michigan Pioneers: the First One Hundred Years of Statehood, published by J.L. Hudson Company, 1937

There is no TOC or index in the pamphlet. All the profiles include an engraved image. The profiles are as much about a place as about the individual.

 * Alexander Emanuel Agassiz 1835-1910 p 42 copper magnate in Calumet, Michigan
 * John Allen 1796-1851 p 22 (founded Ann Arbor -- not a U.S. Rep from CT)
 * John Jacob Astor 1763-1848 p 82 fur-trader, made Mackinac Island into fashionable resort
 * Martha Baldwin 1840-1913 p 38 librarian in Birmingham, Michigan
 * Austin Blair 1818-1894 p 66 governor of Michigan, a founder of U.S. Republican Party, U.S. Representative, associated with Jackson, Michigan
 * Titus Bronson 1788-1853 p 70 founded Kalamazoo, Michigan
 * Louis Campau 1791-1871 p 58 founded Grand Rapids, Michigan
 * Lewis Cass 1782-1866 p 122 governor, Secretary of War, Minister to France, U.S. Senator, Secretary of State, named Royal Oak, Michigan
 * Addison J. Comstock 1802-1867 p 6 founded Adrian, Michigan
 * Jesse Crowell 1797-1872 p 10 founded Albion, Michigan
 * General George Armstrong Custer 1839-1876 p 94 Monroe, Michigan claims tangential connection with Custer -- he went to school and married his wife there. Also has some bits about Toledo War
 * Henry Dearborn 1757-1829 p 50 Rev. War general, Dearborn, Michigan named after him
 * Samuel Dexter 1787-1856 p 62 founded Ionia, Michigan NOT politician from MA
 * Herbert Henry Dow 1866-1930 p 90 industrialist, founded Dow Chemical Company in Midland, Michigan
 * William C. Durant b December 8, 1861 p 54 C. = 'Crapo', grandson of governor Crapo, auto pioneer in Flint, Michigan
 * Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 p 118 inventor, grew up in Port Huron, Michigan
 * Isaac A. Fancher 1833-1934 p 102 lawyer, legislator, pioneer from Mount Pleasant, Michigan
 * John Baptiste Ford 1811-1903 p 144 industrialist from Wyandotte, Michigan
 * George N. Fletcher 1814-1899 p 18 lumber magnate in Alpena, Michigan
 * James Fraser 1803-1866 p 34 founded Bay City, Michigan -- common name
 * Judge Amos Gould 1808-1882 p 110 first mayor of Owosso, Michigan
 * Charles H. Hackley 1837-1905 p 106 lumber magnate in Muskegon, Michigan
 * Perry Hannah 1824-1904 p 134 lumberman from Traverse City, Michigan
 * Alvin N. Hart 1804-1874 p 78 newspaper editor, pioneer of Lapeer, Michigan
 * Erastus Hussey 1800-1889 p 30 abolitionist, Quaker, mayor of Battle Creek, Michigan, a founder of U.S. Republican Party
 * Chancellor John Lansing 1754-1829 p 74 Chancellor of state of New York, Lansing, Michigan named after him
 * Norman Little 1806-1859 p 126 "The Father of Saginaw, Michigan"
 * General Alexander Macomb 1782-1844 p 98 platted village of Mount Clemens, Michigan with Lewis Cass and Christian Clemens
 * Charles S. Osborn born 1860 p 130 governor, scholar, newspaper publisher in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan
 * Chief Pontiac 1720-1769 p 114 Pontiac, Michigan named for him
 * Jacob Sammons 1804-1959 p 46 founded Cheboygan, Michigan
 * Albert E. Sleeper 1862-1934 p 26 governor of Michigan, banker in Bad Axe, Michigan
 * George Brigham Truax 1819-1868 p 138 founder of Trenton, Michigan, son of Major Abram Caleb Truax
 * Peter White 1830-1908 p 86 involved with iron ore in Marquette, Michigan
 * Ammi W. Wright 1822-1912 p 14 founded Alma, Michigan
 * Demetrius Ypsilanti 1793-1832 p 146 hero of the Greek war of independence, Ypsilanti, Michigan named for him

Tuttle's General History
Index of persons profiled in General History of the State of Michigan with Biographical Sketches, Portrait Engravings, and Numerous Illustrations: A Complete History of the Peninsular State from its Earliest Settlement to the Present Time, compiled by Charles Richard Tuttle, published by R.D.S. Tyler &Co., Detroit, 1873

Biographical Sketches

 * Lewis Cass 20
 * Andrew Parsons 40
 * John J. Bagley 60
 * Henry P. Baldwin 65
 * Frederick L. Wells 69
 * Elihu L. Clark 73
 * Henry Fish 77
 * William M. Fenton 83
 * Martin S. Brackett 91
 * Timothy Jerome 95
 * Thomas P. Sheldon 99
 * Jonathon B. Tuttle 103

Engravings
Indian Council at St. Mary's Falls 89 LaSalle in the Griffin and Death of LaSalle 107

title: User:Bkonrad/Michigan


text:
List of cities in Minnesota

Minnesota is a state situated in the Midwestern United States. According to the 2020 United States census, Minnesota is the 22nd most populous state with inhabitants but the 14th largest by land area, spanning 79626.74 sqmi of land. Minnesota is divided into 87 counties and contains 853 incorporated cities, with populations ranging from 425,115 (Minneapolis) to 12 (Funkley) in 2023. Minnesota cities are classified by population as a first class city, a second class city, a third class city, or a fourth class city; this is done for legislative purposes.

General and cited references

 * U.S. Census Bureau, retrieved February 21, 2010

title: List of cities in Minnesota


text:
Senate of Northern Ireland

The Senate of Northern Ireland was the upper house of the Parliament of Northern Ireland created by the Government of Ireland Act 1920. It was abolished with the passing of the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973.

Powers
In practice the Senate of Northern Ireland possessed little power and even less influence. While intended as a revising chamber, in practice, debates and votes typically simply replicated those in the Commons.

Location

From 1932, when the building was completed, until 1972, the Senate of Northern Ireland met in the Senate Chamber of Parliament Buildings in Stormont on the eastern outskirts of Belfast. To make parallels with the British House of Lords, members of the Senate sat on red benches.

Senators
The Senate consisted of 26 members. Twenty-four members elected by the House of Commons of Northern Ireland using the Single Transferable Vote (STV), elected in blocks of twelve with each senator's term lasting for two parliaments (i.e. two terms of the House of Commons) and two ex-officio members: the Lord Mayor of Belfast and Mayor of Londonderry. Convention held that, in the event of a by-election, only members of the Commons from the same county would vote on their replacement. The election system was maintained even after the abolition of STV for the House of Commons.

In 1925, at the end of the first parliament, the senators to retire were selected by lot. At the subsequent election, voting papers from the Nationalist MPs and George Henderson were deemed to have been submitted late, and were not considered. All these members had given a high preference to the Nationalist candidate, Vincent Devoto, and a subsequent analysis of the transfers showed that these would otherwise have been sufficient to elect him.

Office-holders
The key offices in the Senate were:

 * Speaker
 * 2 Deputy Speakers
 * Leader of the House
 * Deputy Leader of the House (abolished in 1961).

Political composition
During its history 142 people sat in the upper house. With the addition of the Unionist Lord Mayor of Belfast Corporation and Mayor of Londonderry Corporation, together with boycotts of the Commons at various times by nationalist parties and fragmentation of the opposition into some parties too small to elect a Senator alone, the upper house proved to be even more heavily Unionist than the lower house. However a Nationalist, Thomas Stanislaus McAllister, served two periods as deputy speaker.

The table below shows the political composition of the twenty-four elected members of the Senate, after each election. It does not show subsequent changes of party allegiance, nor changes resulting from by-elections. Following the 1969 election, there was one vacant seat. Other than Hugh O'Doherty, Mayor of Londonderry until 1923, all the ex officio members were Ulster Unionists.

Peerages
Peers of the Realm were disproportionately represented in the Senate. Nine senators were or became peers of the realm at the time of their membership of the Senate. These were the third and fourth Dukes of Abercorn, Viscount Bangor, Viscount Charlemont, the Marquess of Dufferin and Ava, Lord Glentoran, the Marquess of Londonderry, Lord Massereene and Ferrard, and Lord Pirrie. Lord Bangor and Lord Charlemont held Irish titles only; Lord Charlemont had been elected as an Irish representative peer and so sat in the House of Lords, Lord Bangor however did not. At least another three senators subsequently became peers by different routes. Lord Robert Grosvenor inherited the title of Duke of Westminster from his brother, Sir Basil Brooke was created Viscount Brookeborough and Victor Cooke was created a life peer as Baron Cooke of Islandreagh.

Abolition
The Senate, along with the House of Commons, was prorogued by the Northern Ireland (Temporary Provisions) Act 1972, and abolished completely by the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973. The old Senate Chamber is now used as a committee room of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

title: Senate of Northern Ireland