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Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens

The Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens is one of the oldest zoological and botanical centres in the world, and the oldest park in Hong Kong. Founded in 1864, its first stage was opened to the public in 1871. It occupies an area of 5.6 ha, in Central, on the northern slope of Victoria Peak.

Similar to Hong Kong Park, Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens provides a natural environment and atmosphere. While physically smaller than Hong Kong Park it contains more plants, animals and facilities.

History

The park was previously named Bing Tau Fa Yuen (「兵頭花園」). "Bing Tau" literally means "the head of the soldiers" or the "Commander-in-Chief". According to Hong Kong's Leisure and Cultural Services Department, it was nicknamed as such by the city's Cantonese community, as it was the former site of the city's Government House. Others said Bing Tau was just the phonetic transliteration of the first two syllables of the word botanical. In the old days, many lovers liked to go there on a date. During the Japanese occupation, it was renamed as Taishō Kōen (Hiragana: たいしょうこうえん, Kanji: 大正公園).

The founder of The Garden Company Limited discussed at the Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens and came up with the idea of starting a company; therefore, it was named after "Garden" and its Cantonese transliteration "Garden". The park was closed from 1931 to 1933 to allow for the construction of a reservoir under the park. .

In the past, many world famous people visited the park under the name of Wildlife Fund, such as Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (1983) and Princess Anne of England (1988).

Memorials

At the southern entrance to the gardens, at Upper Albert Road, is the Chinese War Memorial, dedicated to the Chinese who died assisting the Allies during World War I and World War II. The inscription on the lintel reads: "In Memory of the Chinese who died loyal to the Allied cause in the Wars of 1914-1918 and 1939-1945". The granite arch in the shape of a paifang was erected in 1928. Reference to the Second World War was added later.

A bronze statue of King George VI was erected in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of British colonial rule over Hong Kong (1841–1941).

Plants
There are more than 1,000 species of plants in the gardens, mostly indigenous to tropical and sub-tropical regions. It includes some rare species like the dawn redwood and the local Ailanthus. Besides these, some species which can produce flowers throughout the year can also be found there, like the Hong Kong orchid tree.

Different Species are grown in the Thematic gardens in the Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens.

Bamboo Garden
This garden grows about ten times bigger than other gardens.

Camellia Garden
More than 30 species are grown in this garden. Crapnell's camellia (Camellia crapnelliana), Grantham's camellia (Camellia granthamiana) and Hong Kong camellia (Camellia hongkongensis) are native to Hong Kong.

Some introduced rare species such as Yunnan camellia (Camellia reticulata) and golden camellia (Camellia nitidissima and Camellia euphlebia) can also be found in this garden.

Magnolia Garden
This garden grows 5 species of magnolia:
 * Chinese magnolia (Magnolia coco)
 * Yulan (Magnolia denudata)
 * Purple magnolia (Magnolia liliiflora)
 * Saucer magnolia (Magnolia × soulangeana)
 * Southern magnolia (Magnolia grandiflora).

Greenhouse

Various species of orchids, ferns, bromeliads, vines and carnivorous plants are grown in the greenhouse.

Palm Garden
This garden grows over 30 species under 22 genera of the palm family.

Bauhinia Garden
This garden grows 8 species including Hong Kong orchid tree (Bauhinia blakeana), purple camel's foot (Bauhinia purpurea) and camel's foot tree (Bauhinia variegata).

Azalea Garden
This garden grows over 10 azalea species including red azalea (Rhododendron simsii), lovely azalea (Rhododendron pulchrum), purple azalea (Rhododendron pulchrum var. phoeniceum) and white azalea (Rhododendron mucronatum), those are native to Hong Kong. There are also rare species such as yellow azalea (Rhododendron molle) and Westland's rhododendron (Rhododendron moulmainense).

Herb Garden
Various species of herb are grown in the garden.

Animals
The size of the garden precludes the keeping of very large mammal species such as giraffes. Nevertheless, the collection of primates is varied, including such diverse creatures such as the Hoffmann's two-toed sloth, Red necked wallaby, golden lion tamarin, gibbon, orangutan, ring-tailed lemur and black-and-white ruffed lemur. Apart from the plants, there are over 400 birds, 50 mammals and 20 reptiles.

Mammals and reptiles
A taxidermy specimen of Siu Fa, the female jaguar that lived in Hong Kong for nearly 20 years is on display at the Education and Exhibition Centre of HKZBG from 5 March 2009.

A pigeon pair of Bornean orangutan twins were born in the HKZBG in July 2011, joining the big family of the gardens. This is the first-ever successful breeding of Bornean orangutan twins in the HKZBG, bringing to five the total number of this primate in the gardens

To enhance public understanding and appreciation of all living creatures, the two female meerkats introduced to the HKZBG are aged 4 and 5, and are housed in the newly-decorated "Meerkat's Home".

In 2020, The mammal and reptile section of the Zoological & Botanical Gardens were temporarily closed due to the COVID-19 epidemic. The mammal families at the gardens expanded during the epidemic.

To celebrate its 150s anniversary in 2021,  a female Asian small-clawed otter  and red necked wallaby introduced to the HKZBG.

Yellow-cheeked gibbons, ring-tailed lemurs, white-faced saki, black-and-white ruffed lemurs and cotton-top tamarins all welcomed new additions to the family.

The reptiles are primarily snakes, crocodilians, and turtles such as the African spurred tortoise, radiated tortoise, Chinese alligator and Burmese python.

Birds
Over 100 avian species have successfully reared young, including the Japanese red-crowned crane, peacock pheasant and the Bali mynah, all of which are highly endangered in the wild.

Just outside the greenhouse are several large aviaries housing species of waterfowl, such as the wood duck, flamingo, blue crane and intensely-coloured scarlet ibis, perching atop a man-made waterfall.

There are also terrestrial birds; many of them small, and with several species from East Asia and Africa. Yellow-casqued hornbill are among the HKZBG's larger avian species.

An injured black-faced spoonbill was rescued in Nam Sang Wai by staff of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department, and transferred to the KFBG Wild Animal Rescue Centre in March 2018. This spoonbill, which was unable to fly after an operation, will be able to join the other waterfowl at HKZBG, and so will have excellent human-provided care as well as companions in captivity.

To celebrate its 150th anniversary this year, the Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens will hold a number of free public activities, in addition to adding black-crowned cranes, great white pelicans, and great curassow, in addition to bird-watching platforms.

The small brick buildings that house some of the smaller birds were once staff quarters, for Chinese workers at the park. These were recently renovated, resulting in the destruction of a row of defunct Victorian gas lamp posts; these may have been the last remaining such lamps in Hong Kong, and possibly in all of East Asia.

Animal welfare concerns

The gardens have come under fire for 'outdated' facilities, and ‘inadequate, overcrowded conditions’ for the animals housed within its confines.

In 2015, the South China Morning Post reported that the Kadoorie Institute, the SPCA, Animals Asia Foundation and the orangutan foundation Orangutanaid all have expressed “sincere doubts over the welfare of its animals,” and recommended that the park be “returned to its original status as a botanical garden". Later that year, Jane Goodall expressed her concern over the “treatment of orangutans in Hong Kong's zoo", saying that they were “not in a good situation", and adding that "large animals in small cages with nothing to do are not happy animals".

Transport
The main entrance is located at Upper Albert Road. A number of bus routes give access to the facility. Admission is free to all parts of the Zoological and Botanical Gardens.


text:
Hazel Carter (writer)

Early life
Carter was born in 1894 in the Huachuca Mountains outside of Douglas, Arizona Territory. She was known as a skilled hunter and farmer. According to her father Peter Blauser, Carter graduated from college but chose to live a life on a ranch where she tended to 200 cattle and 16 saddle horses. She married John J. Carter on December 12, 1916.

World War I involvement
When her husband was sent to France on the first American contingent to fight in World War I, she first tried to join the Red Cross in Douglas, but was not accepted. Carter then cut her hair short and stole an Army uniform. She boarded the same train as the one carrying her husband and went undetected for two days when she was forced off the train and told to go back to Douglas. However, she got back on the train. At the port, she was able to get onto a ship and stow away. Carter claims her husband did not know of her presence on the train until they neared Chicago. The contingent was five days at sea when her identity was revealed. Her voice was what eventually gave her away and Captain Eugene D. Rideout realized that she was a woman. Upon arrival on the shores of Europe, she was not permitted to disembark from the ship's deck.

A request by Carter to remain as a nurse was refused. Her husband was demoted from corporal to private as a result of the debacle. Carter states that her mother did not know she was stowing away. Carter's American Civil War veteran grandfather, H. Clark remarked how proud he was of his granddaughter, stating "I knew she would do it…That girl sure has grit. I wish she could stay and fight the Germans. You ought to have seen her in uniform. She made a better looking soldier than John, I do believe. She can handle a rifle better than most men. They sure should have let her stay."

On return, she was detained and questioned at the police headquarters in Hoboken, New Jersey. She then moved on to Atlantic City, New Jersey. A hero's welcome was planned for her return to Douglas. Carter was met by a brass band and supporters. She also wrote about her experiences and her account was published by The Bell Syndicate. Carter authored a series of four articles detailing her experience that were serialized nationally by several newspaper companies.

Death
Before her death, she intended on earning enough money to return to France to serve as an Army nurse. Carter died in Lordsburg, New Mexico, on July 11, 1918, after being ill for two days. Her husband was still fighting overseas when she passed. It was said by friends that her health declined after her return and they believed she died of a "broken heart." Carter's body was returned to Douglas for burial and she was given a military funeral with a military chaplain and six soldiers as pallbearers. In 1918 after the funeral, it was reported by her cousin, Ella Murphy, that Carter's was the first military funeral held in the United States for a woman.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Hazel Carter (writer)


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User talk:Curious~enwiki

Welcome to Wikipedia!

I found your edits to the article Obesity very interesting. Unfortunately, they're a bit incomplete, and I'd like your help with them.

Primarily, the problem is that this seems to be a discussion of one particular theory about obesity. You apparently believe this theory; and while I haven't studied the matter, I must confess that I tend to agree! However, as long as ideas are under dispute, Wikipedia won't take sides on an issue (see NPOV for more on this policy). Since your edits simply stated things as fact, without explaining who believes them, I removed them from the page. (Actually, I put them on the talk page, so they're not lost!) But I think that the material could still be a very useful addition to Wikipedia, as long as it's appropriately attributed.

There are actually some other problems with what you wrote -- like style and spelling. But actually, those aren't problems at all! The great thing about Wikipedia is that after you finish writing, then other people will come along and edit your text to make it better. But before that starts, I need your help in tracking down where these ideas come from, so that we can get them included in a properly attributed NPOV way.

Once again, welcome aboard, and I hope that you decide to stay!

-- Toby Bartels 07:40, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Curious. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Curious~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:14, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 11:49, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Curious~enwiki


text:
Talk:Rig (algebra)

Isn't this the same thing as a semiring?

Waltpohl 07:48, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Almost but not quite. From what I can tell, the difference is that a rig has identity elements for both multiplication and addition, where a semiring is not guaranteed to have identity elements for either one. Isomorphic 08:05, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I say we redirect this to semiring. See comments at Talk:semiring. -- Fropuff 23:55, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rig (algebra)


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Grotto

A grotto is a natural or artificial cave used by humans in both modern times and antiquity, and historically or prehistorically. Naturally occurring grottoes are often small caves near water that are usually flooded or often flooded at high tide. Sometimes, artificial grottoes are used as garden features. The Grotta Azzurra at Capri and the grotto at Tiberius' Villa Jovis in the Bay of Naples are examples of popular natural seashore grottoes.

Whether in tidal water or high up in hills, grottoes are generally made up of limestone geology, where the acidity of standing water has dissolved the carbonates in the rock matrix as it passes through what were originally small fissures.

Etymology
The word grotto comes from Italian grotta, Vulgar Latin grupta, and Latin crypta ("a crypt"). It is also related by a historical accident to the word grotesque. In the late 15th century, Romans accidentally unearthed Nero's Domus Aurea on the Palatine Hill, a series of rooms, decorated with designs of garlands, slender architectural framework, foliage, and animals. The rooms had sunk underground over time. The Romans who discovered this historical monument found it very strange, partly because it was uncovered from an "underworld" source. This led the Romans of that era to give it the name grottesca, from which came the French grotesque.

Antiquity
Grottoes were very popular in Greek and Roman culture. Spring-fed grottoes were a feature of Apollo's oracles at Delphi, Corinth, and Clarus. The Hellenistic city of Rhodes was designed with rock-cut artificial grottoes incorporated into the city, made to look natural. At the great Roman sanctuary of Praeneste south of Rome, the oldest portion of the primitive sanctuary was situated on the second lowest terrace, in a grotto in the natural rock where a spring developed into a well. According to tradition, Praeneste's sacred spring had a native nymph, who was honored in a grotto-like watery nymphaeum.

Cellars in Ticino
In Ticino, the Italian-speaking part of Switzerland, grottoes were places where wine and food were stored and preserved. They were built by exploiting the morphology of rocks and boulders, to create rooms with a cool climate suitable for food, particularly milk and cheese, as well as potatoes, sausages, and wine storage.

The importance of these cellars is demonstrated in their number; for example, there are 40 grotti in Maggia, no fewer in Moghegno, and about 70 in Cevio behind Case Franzoni. Some grotti have been opened to the public, as in Avegno, but most have lost their original character as they became rustic restaurants which serve basic local food and drink. A true grotto is dug out under a rock or between two boulders, where subterranean air currents keep the room cool. Often a grotto had a second floor with another one or two rooms for the fermentation cask and tools of the vintage. In front of the grotto were a table and benches of stone, where the farmers could rest and refresh themselves.

Garden grottoes

The popularity of artificial grottoes introduced the Mannerist style to Italian and French gardens of the mid-16th century. Two famous grottoes in the Boboli Gardens of Palazzo Pitti were begun by Vasari and completed by Ammanati and Buontalenti between 1583 and 1593. One of these grottoes originally housed the Prisoners of Michelangelo. Before the Boboli grotto, a garden was laid out by Niccolò Tribolo at the Medici Villa Castello, near Florence. At Pratolino, in spite of the dryness of the site, there was a Grotto of Cupid (surviving), with water tricks for the unsuspecting visitor. The Fonte di Fata Morgana ("Fata Morgana's Spring") at Grassina, not far from Florence, is a small garden building, built in 1573–74 as a garden feature in the extensive grounds of the Villa "Riposo" (rest) of Bernardo Vecchietti. It is decorated with sculptures in the Giambolognan manner.

The outsides of garden grottoes are often designed to look like an enormous rock, a rustic porch, or a rocky overhang. Inside, they are decorated as a temple or with fountains, stalactites, and imitation gems and shells (sometimes made in ceramic); herms and mermaids, mythological subjects suited to the space; and naiads, or river gods whose urns spilled water into pools. Damp grottoes were cool places to retreat from the Italian sun, but they also became fashionable in the cool drizzle of the Île-de-France. In the Kuskovo Estate, there is the Grotto Pavilion, built between 1755 and 1761.

Grottoes could also serve as baths; an example of this is at the Palazzo del Te, in the 'Casino della Grotta', where a small suite of intimate rooms is laid out around a grotto and loggetta (covered balcony). Courtiers once bathed in the small cascade that splashed over the pebbles and shells encrusted in the floor and walls.

Grottoes have also served as chapels, or at Villa Farnese at Caprarola, a little theater designed in the grotto manner. They were often combined with cascading fountains in Renaissance gardens.

The grotto designed by Bernard Palissy for Catherine de' Medici's château in Paris, the Tuileries, was renowned. There are also grottoes in the gardens designed by André Le Nôtre for Versailles. In England, an early garden grotto was built at Wilton House in the 1630s, probably by Isaac de Caus.

Grottoes were suitable for less formal gardens too. Pope's Grotto, created by Alexander Pope, is almost all that survives of one of the first landscape gardens in England, at Twickenham. Pope was inspired after seeing grottoes in Italy during a visit there. Efforts are underway to restore his grotto. There are grottoes in the landscape gardens of Painshill Park, Stowe, Clandon Park, and Stourhead. Scott's Grotto is a series of interconnected chambers, extending 67 ft (20 metres) into the chalk hillside on the outskirts of Ware, Hertfordshire. Built during the late 18th century, the chambers and tunnels are lined with shells, flints, and pieces of colored glass. The Romantic generation of tourists might not actually visit Fingal's Cave, on the remote isle of Staffa in the Scottish Hebrides, but they have often heard of it, perhaps through Felix Mendelssohn's "Hebrides Overture", better known as "Fingal's Cave", which was inspired by his visit. In the 19th century, when miniature Matterhorns and rock gardens became fashionable, a grotto was often found, such as at Ascott House. In Bavaria, Ludwig's Linderhof contains an abstraction of the grotto under Venusberg, which is figured in Wagner's Tannhäuser.

Although grottoes have largely fallen from fashion since the British Picturesque movement, architects and artists occasionally try to redefine the grotto in contemporary design works. Such examples include Frederick Kiesler's Grotto of Meditation for New Harmony (1964), ARM'st post-modern Storey Hall (1995), Aranda/Lasch's Grotto Concept, (2005), DSDHA's Potters Field Park Pavilions (2008) , Callum Moreton's Grotto pavilion (2010), and Antonino Cardillo's Grottoes series (2013–2023).

Religious grottoes
Today, artificial grottoes are purchased and built for ornamental and devotional purposes. They are often used as shrines in which to place statues of saints, particularly the Virgin Mary, in outdoor gardens.

Many Roman Catholics visit a grotto where Bernadette Soubirous saw apparitions of Our Lady of Lourdes. Numerous garden shrines are modeled after these apparitions. They can commonly be found displayed in gardens and churches, among other places (see Lourdes grotto).

The largest grotto is believed to be the Grotto of the Redemption in West Bend, Iowa.

title: Grotto


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Talk:World Series of Poker

Linking players names
It would be nice to be consistent about which players deserve to have their names hyperlinked, and which players do not. I'm inclined to linkify the names of all players -- not only is that consistent, it also encourages contributors to write articles for each player (if you've won the WSOP, there's probably justification for a Wikipedia article on you). Any agree/disagree? Neilc 22:44, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I've linked them all. Although some links are going to be red, or link to stubby articles, for a while I don't think there is a better way of determining how to cut people off in terms of signficance. Pcb21| Pete 18:09, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * CryptoDerk made the suggestion of including "second-tier" poker bios in PokerWiki.  I think that's a good idea although I don't yet see a lot of enthusiasm in that community for writing bios.   I would think anyone who actually won a WSOP Main Event, or probably multiple bracelets in the other events, deserves a Wikipedia entry.   Beyond that it seems a little esoteric, but I'm eager to hear other opinions.    - PhilipR 20:11, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * It says in the article, "Annie Duke surprised the world defeating 1989 Main Event winner Phil Hellmuth in the final hand." I have two objections to this:  First, it wasn't that big of a surprise that she won; after all, she's been a pro gambler for at least ten years.  And second, saying that she won on the last hand is redundant.  All poker tournaments are decided on the last hand. Quicksilvre 22:52, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Spoiler warning
I added the spoiler warning to this article because even though this event is over, ESPN televisizes the tournament several weeks later, and in fact started broadcasting the first episodes last night, which is what prompted me to read this article in the first place. While I wasn't upset to find this year's winner published here, some of our other readers might be. However, I generally don't engage in edit wars, so I'll not add it back in. Gentgeen 18:27, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * The winner, Greg Raymer, was given a full-treatment in the media when he won recently (before ESPN began televising). Additionally, even ESPN has his name in articles on their website, as the winner. Jewbacca 18:33, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Jewbacca. If we start to add spoiler warnings to actual events we open up a right can of worms. For instance the 2003 WSOP has only just begun being televised in the UK. The 2004 might or might not ever be shown (depending on viewing figures for the 2003 event). How on earth would we know when to cut the spoiler warning out of the article? The only reasonable thing to do is not have it all, sorry. Pcb21| Pete 19:11, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, they were airing commercials for online poker with Moneymaker and Rayner during the airing of the 2004 WSOP tourney... so it a spoiler warning really defeats the purpose anyway,--Madchester 14:22, 2005 Mar 11 (UTC)

re: "Golden Ovaries" nickname -- looks like vandalism, but it's not.
The world of poker nicknames certainly is wide and colorful. How about adding a reference to the article for this one so it doesn't look so much like vandalism?

Further, does anyone else share an interest in adding good references where appropriate for the rest of the article as well? Un focused  17:29, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

 * What sort of references? Also, any reference should be in the Lucy Rokach article, not this one.
 * (Actually I had not known of the Golden Ovaries nickname until I saw a preview of the World Speed Poker Open, but that is apparently the nickname she is going by.) Essexmutant 23:02, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Main Event Overview
This has grown considerably, but still contains a lot of valuable information. I would suggest moving it to another page, as the current page size of World Series of Poker is approaching 4 times the recommended amount. Any objections? Essexmutant 15:58, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

 * First it should be pruned to remove all "notable others" and list only "notables" at the final table. The way it is now is trite and even offensive.  There needs to be some criteria... final table or perhaps top 25 if they have an Wikipedia article.  A 76 finish is of no interest whatsoever, unless it was maybe the Pope.  I'd say top 25 + a wikipedia article gets a person listed... with a limit of no more than ten notables for a year, so if #2 through #11 have articles, those are the ones listed. And as long as I'm at it, these flags should be eliminated.  They are often wrong or just plain ridiculous... Amir Vahedi gets and Iranian flag while Scotty Nguyen gets a US one?  That's just silly. Negreanu gets a Canadian one but Tiffany Williamson has a US one?  There may be no more inconsistent and flat out wrong article information in the wikipedia than this one. 2005 20:51, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what you consider to be "trite and offensive" here. Perhaps you'd like to expand on this.
 * I'm happy to help trim down the number of people per year. Your criteria seems reasonable.
 * As for the flags, Amir Vahedi's article does not say he is American anywhere. Tiffany Williamson, on the other hand, has said that she considers herself to be an American despite living in England. If you would prefer to have a blanket method, then I suggest using either birth country or the flag used in the Hendon Mob's database.
 * Even if it is trimmed down, it will still be over the page size limit. So, where do we stand on moving the whole of the Main Event section to a separate page regardless of the above? Essexmutant 09:31, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd suggest removing the table completely, except the winner, and then links to articles on the specific years, where the remaining notables, with either the criteria I suggested or something else, could be linked. Picking and choosing people finishing in the top 100 is arbritrary and basically rude in that others aren't "notable" to be mentioned.  I'd dispense with the flags completely as they don't make sense a large percentage of the time.  Many players are born elsewhere but live in the US, and have for years and years.  I suppose birth country would be better than current country if the flags were to be kept.  I'm sure the Vietnamese guys though would want the old South Vietnam flag rather than the current one. 2005 10:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

 * As it stands, everyone listed is notable enough to have a Wikipeia article (except Barabra Enright.) I'm going to suggest keeping the flags, as they are also included at Late Night Poker, Ultimate Poker Challenge, World Poker Tour, Poker Superstars Invitational Tournament, Professional Poker Tour, etc. (It also helps to show the increased number of non-Americans to place in the WSOP, as opposed to its early years.) Also happy to go with birth country. I can have a go at creating separate pages for each year's WSOP if that's what you are suggesting. Is that agreeable? Essexmutant 10:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Sounds fine, if you are willing to take on the consistency task that would be great. Some of the WSOP's already have their own pages, so it would be a cool task if every year got a nice consistent article (although obviously newer ones would be more in depth). I'd still though defintely keep notables to the final table or the top 30 at most.  It is rather random as to why some people have articles and others don't, so it makes little sense to be listing people who finish in the 40s or 70s, just because someone made an article. Likewise any of the "day one" eliminations in recent years.  Those are just silly as dozens of people with articles or without could be listed. 2005 20:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I've made a start on this by trimming down the notable finishers on this page to just the top 30. I have also created pages for WSOP 1998, WSOP 1999, WSOP 2000, WSOP 2001, WSOP 2002 and WSOP 2003 and done some editing on WSOP 2004. Comments welcome of course. When there is a page for each WSOP I'll cut down the Main Event section to just the winners. (That'll probably be a few weeks yet.) Essexmutant 12:06, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Looks good. 2005 07:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Cool. I've carried on by creating WSOP 1983, WSOP 1984, WSOP 1985, WSOP 1986, WSOP 1987, WSOP 1988, WSOP 1989, WSOP 1990, WSOP 1991, WSOP 1992, WSOP 1993, WSOP 1994, WSOP 1995, WSOP 1996 and WSOP 1997. Essexmutant 15:48, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Update - just to confirm (as I'm sure many have noticed) that articles for each year of the WSOP now exist. Essexmutant 16:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Winning hands?
There are some unexplained card pairs marked after the names of the winners of each tournament. I think they should be explained somewhere because it's uncertain to - at least for me - what they do mean.

 * That's why we have a link to the article on poker. On Wikipedia, we tend to like to use links to explain that sort of thing unless it's absolutely necessary. Cuts down on redundancy. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 21:12, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It could be made into a separate column (it's the winning hand of each tournament, if known.) Any thoughts? Essexmutant 09:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Wikibooks has a hand rankings article here. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 18:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't mean that the hand ranking should be explained. It would be completely unnecessary here. What I mean is that somewhere next to that table of winners there should be a text that would tell the reader what those two cards are and why they're mentioned here. Currently this is not mentioned and unaware readers may be guessing what does those two cards mean. To get an answer these users now start guessing which link tells the truth: is it the tournament page or the page about the winner. Those winning hands could actually have their own column in the table.

 * I made the column entry more clear. It could have its own column but it seems okay to me how it is now. 2005 22:55, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the community cards be listed as well? Listing the pocket cards alone is a bit pointless without the community cards. For example, it lists Moneymaker in 2003 with a 5 & 4 unsuited, but what did he win with? A straight? Trip 5's? There is no mention of the full house he actually won with. --Holderca1 18:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Flag changes
A question for 2005 and any other interested parties. We discussed above changing some of the flags around, and the preferance appears to be on birth country. I'll start off by changing everyone in Category:Vietnamese poker players to the South Vietnam flag. Is it worth me changing Johnny Chan and David Chiu to China whilst doing it? Once this is out of the way, we can look further at some of the others. Essexmutant 11:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd say yes... I mean it is worth doing in terms of consistent correctness, not necessarily that it is a high priority use of your time. 2005 20:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

 * To make the encyclopedia of the most value, it should add value. It's not necessarily something I'll do in a short space of time, but I'll get round to it at some stage. Essexmutant 21:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Update - I've changed the flags for everyone in Category:Vietnamese poker players. I'll have a look at some of the others soon. Essexmutant 18:31, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 2nd update - Johnny Chan and David Chiu now changed also. Essexmutant 17:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

This seems silly. Is it even needed? Is the flag shown during the award ceremony? I don't think so but if it is then that's probably the only reason to include. Chess champion has similar problems. Bobby Fischer is no longer a US citizen. The Russians were born in USSR, even though their country of origin states Russia. I'd prefer to get rid of it, and have the appropriate articles on the players mention their own nationality, as they see it. Putting it here just seems like a good chance to be picky and choosy for nationalism or some such. --M a s 21:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I see no reason to have flags and lots of reasons not to have them. They are only appropriate on pages for "team" style tournaments. People don't play for a country, and may in fact despise their birth country.  Nationalism has nothing whatever to do with a tournament like this, or poker for that matter.  It's like including their shoe size. 2005 23:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

1970 Number of Entrants
In the origins section it mentions there were 7 players. In the table it shows 38 entrants. What am I missing?

Sucker straight 15:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

That is odd. I found "The epic battle between Moss and the Greek sparked an idea in Benny Binion’s head, and in 1970 he invited the best poker players he knew, including Johnny Moss, Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim Preston, Brian “Sailor” Roberts, Puggy Pearson, Crandall Addington, and Carl Cannon to play No-Limit Texas Hold’em against each other in front of a crowd" Since it says "including" and lists 7 names, I'm guessing the 38 is correct. (Unattributed response by Mateo_LeFou)

T♦?
As far as i can tell, i have no clue as to what this card is. What is a T? Does it mean 10? if so it should be changed to 10 as the other examples are. Lebanese Sam Farha J♥ T♦ OKH 18:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

- In response, T♦ (or Td) is the commonly accepted shorthand for ten of diamonds. It's written out this way so that all of the cards, deuce through ace, can be represented with just one character. It also groups the ten in with the other broadway cards, TJQKA. [TS]

A cap on WSOP entrants?
Someone noted on this page that there is an "official cap" of 8000 in the Main Event; however, this is not confirmable. Barry Shulman reported on his blog that there is absolutely no cap and Harrah's will try to accomodate as many players as possible. Lastly, as the Main Event is an "open" event, Harrah's could be subject to legal problems if they capped the event at a certain amount of entrants. I have deleted all references to a cap on entrants.

 * Clearly there's no point in mentioning that here when we'll know the facts in a few weeks anyway. --LDC 17:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

 * It has been speculated on a few sites that this year the WSOP Main Event will be split into two events--one for professionals or credentialed personel, and one open to the public; opening up the TOC to winners from both. Thechrismoon
 * I would find this extremely hard to believe. SubSeven 01:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Me too...I would think that they want the size of first place to get as big as it can. What better advertising can there be than that.  Plus, they make a fair amount by hosting the tournament.  I just find this unlikely, and certainly the rumors of it are not noteworthy.  If it happens, then it should go in. —Doug Bell talk 02:00, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

First WSOP?
''The original World Series of Poker was started in 1969 by Tom Moore of San Antonio, Texas at the Holiday Hotel and Casino in Reno and was an invitational event. This inaugural event was won by Crandell Addington''

Later on it states that the 1970 WSOP was the first, and there is no article for the 1969 WSOP on wiki, while all other years are represented in articles and in the footer box for WSOP. So what's the deal with this 1969 tournament? Someone should clarify exactly what it was and how it is related to, but not included as a WSOP (unless I'm wrong about that and whatever it was should be clarified)... TheHYPO 06:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I just read this article titled "No bluffing. World Series of Poker started in Reno" in the article it mentions that by 1970 Benny Binion got the rights to the event and renamed it the World Series of Poker and moved it to Las Vegas Sirex98 11:41, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

1971/72 WSOP?
I know I should mention this in the 1971 article, but I figure few are likely to see it there. In the GSN program 'anything to win' (a documentary series) on an episode about Amarillo Slim, they reference that in 1971 "Slim gave Moss a run for his money, but played second fiddle to Johnny's second straight title." I don't know if this is meant to imply that he actually came second, but someone else is listed as coming in second in that tournament. Is the show exaggerating, or is the article in error? (it seems to lack other details including everyone else who was at the final table)... If nothing else, he can be added to the list of those that were at the final table, even if his position is unknown.

According to Slim, he won the 72 table with a King and a Jack, though suits aren't mentioned. The flop was King-8-8, and Puggy's hand isn't described. Don't know if you can list the winning hand without the suits, but if it helps, there it is. TheHYPO 07:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

From sneak peeks into NewspaperArchive via news.google: eg The Odessa American (Newspaper) - May 20, 1972, Odessa, Texas etc..

The final hand, with three eights, a king and a deuce on The table.. The final hand Friday. there were three A king and A deuce on The table. Slim had A king in his hand for A full bouse. Pug had A pair of sixes for A lesser full house. Dugodugo 12:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Found the 1974 hand at last in http://www.johnnymoss.com/NewYorkerMossArticle.pdf. Got a little closer on the '72 hand, the kings were red. 145.221.52.72 (talk) 09:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Kudos to you! nice detective work! Addington: Moss:  flop  turn  river  for the full house! awesome! hate to think so much of this is lost to history, interesting they called hold'em Omaha before Omaha was played at the world series in the story on page 27 ▪◦▪  ≡S i R E X≡  Talk 09:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The Bracelets
I was looking for information regarding te bracelets themselves (how they have changed throughout the years) and started here. I think that would be an interesting article. CaseKid 23:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * so did I... thus WSOP braceletBalloonman 17:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

player of the year
"Beginning with the 2006 World Series of Poker, the Main Event had no effect on the outcome of the winner of the Player of the Year award." Well, 2005 also, right? Cunningham was in front before the Main Event.

Most Prestigious?
> The World Series of Poker is the most prestigious set of poker tournaments in the world.
 * "the most prestigious" is awfully POV. Not that I disagree that it is, but that's clearly someone's opinion.  I'd suggest something more like 'The World Series of Poker is the longest running set of poker tournaments in the world'.  Or maybe 'The World Series of Poker is an annual set of poker tournaments which has consistently had the most participants since 1968'.  Not sure if that last one is true -- i'm just playing with wording.Jkister 06:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

> A fair question. Who or what determines what is the most prestigious? I think perhaps many if not most would agree that it almost certainly was at some point. But I also think after Moneymaker, or perhaps at some point since then, some would lessen its prestige. Do pros and bracelet winners determine what is the most prestigious or is it simply the voice of the masses? Some might suggest the WPT or other events are currently more prestigious, but those 'suffer' (or thrive as it were) from the same thing the WSOP does...a massive influx of amateurs. I would argue that whatever factors might be seen to reduce the WSOP in prestige can also be applied to any other poker event out there sans invitational events. In which case I would say that, due to participant numbers, historical acclaim, popular interest, prize numbers, and industry enthusiasm, that the WSOP Main Event is indeed the most prestigious open poker event in the world. AngryGerbil 07:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Most pretigious is just unencyclopedic pov. Removing it hurts the article not at all.  I added that the tournament is the largest, which it is by far. 2005 08:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

 * That's being WAY too pedantic. NPOV doesn't mean--nor was it ever intended to mean--that articles must be completely devoid of opinion, just that they should be attributed if they are at all controversial.  Maybe if some other event comes close we'll have to revisit the issue, but I think for now there is absolutely no controversy in the statement at all.  Every serious poker player and poker journalist you ask today will agree--it's all about the bracelets.  Far from being "unencyclopedic", NOT including that perfectly accurate, useful, and important description would be doing a disservice to the readers.    --LDC 08:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A diservice to our readers not to call it most prestigious??? Please, that's totally ridiculous.  Articles should be devoid of opinion, and injecting when obviously not necessary is poor writing.  In this case feeling a need to add to line is silly.  The event speaks for itself.  Let's keep trite, bombastic text out of articles. The line is not very controversial, but it's schoolyardish and unencyclopedic. 2005 08:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I think your interpretation of our NPOV policy is just too black and white. Read a few Britannica articles--they are certainly not "devoid of opinion". Good encyclopedias are full of opinions, as they should be, because expert opinion is valuable information. It's simply not possible to adequately cover any interesting subject with uncontroversial facts. Of course, paper encyclopedias have the advantage that they are written by well-known experts whose opinions are well respected. We don't often have that benefit here, so it makes sense to avoid non-expert opinion, but I just don't see that as a problem here. --LDC 04:00, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The point is adding opinion that plainly is not needed. It's the oldest, the largest, the richest... those are verifiable facts.  We don't need to aggregate that with an opinion, especially when it could be interpreted as smack talk. Let the reality of the tournament speak for itself. 2005 07:18, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

> Most prestigious is a matter of opinion, but not necessarily that of the author of the article. Prestige, in anything, is arbitrary and is determined by the community. The poker community, by and large, does consider the WSOP to be the most prestigious tournament there is, therefore, it is the most prestigious. The opinion of the author doesn't even enter the picture. AngryGerbil 09:21, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Delay of the Final Table
I removed to edits made in intro which read: ''"In 2008, the integrity of the game was brached by a corporate team effort between Harrah's and ESPN. They made it so that the Main Event would not play out to the finish. Instead, the corporate titans will stop the tournament once the Main Event reaches the final table of 9 players. Harrah's and ESPN picked an arbitrary date of November 9, 2008 to play out the final table. There is much controversy over this decision. Many players say it ruins the integrity of the game, while Harrah's and ESPN say it will allow the chance to make 'stars' out of the final 9 participants. The main problem players have with this, aside from the integrity of the game being ruined, is that the delay has no benefit to the players. In poker, the players put up 100% of the prize money, and also pay a 10-20% fee to the house. Harrah's and ESPN stand to be the only parties that will benefit financially from the delay of the final table. The players argue that half of the revenue gained from the delay should to be added to the prize pool and the Main Event should be made rake-free."''

I don't care for what Harrah's did either however it should be written objectively see WP:NPOV WP:AWW, ("integrity of the game was brached" is opinion, "Many players say it ruins the integrity of the game" (which players?) "arbitrary date of" not exactly an arbitrary date the WSOP has in the past been taped months in advance then aired later after post what different is they the final table play date closer to air date etc.) also see 2008 World Series of Poker where is in mention, if this is reintroduced, make sure citations are used in it's own section or linked to 2008 WSOP and mention there. ▪◦▪ ≡S i R E X≡  Talk 01:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Main Event fee
I remember hearing that the fee is only $1. But there seems to be a big discrepency between the total buy in and the total payout (~4 million dollars)  Where does that go? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.97.82.49 (talk) 16:53, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is only 1$ if you can win it through a series of satellites to get to the 10K fee.--- Balloonman  PoppaBalloon CSD Survey Results 01:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Template
I have created 2009 World Series of Poker. I am trying to determine if enough of these articles exist for this to be a useful template. Please comment at Template talk:2009 World Series of Poker.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

World Series of Poker Hall of Fame
Section required or new wikipage required for the World Series of Poker Hall Of Fame. A new person has been inducted every year since 1979.

http://www.pokerpages.com/pokerinfo/hallofame/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.51.235 (talk) 13:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

WSOP television coverage errors
The 1990's part is mixed up with stuff from the year 2000. Also the year 1999 is missing, anybody know if it was broadcasted that year and who did the commentary? Also, the 2000 and 2001 shows give Discovery Channel as broadcaster but who did the commentary those years? --Webjoker (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

1975 winning hand for Sailor Roberts - it listed nines but it is jacks
I can not find the source for the 9 9 versus A K but I read somewhere else that it was jacks versus J9 (J9 for Hooks who flopped a flushdraw) and so I edited it. Sources: - http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19750520&id=JjkzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4jIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=2580,1827889 - http://www.pokerjunkie.com/wsop-main-event-final-hands --Webjoker (talk) 15:55, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what the original source for the 1975 WSOP final hand was, good work on finding the correct information, it wasn't listed pokerworks hand history http://pokerworks.com/poker-hands/, the news clipping you gave looks to be good along with this detailed recount from pokerworks "Final Hand: On the last hand of WSOP 1975, Bob Hooks made a move on the 7h-6c-2-c Flop Holding Jc-9c. He had over-cards, flush-draw and a couple of backdoors, in other words a good spot to push. However, Roberts wasn't going anywhere with his over-pair so the chips went into the middle. The turn was 9s, the river Th, and Brian "Sailor" Roberts became the champion." ▪◦▪  ≡S i R E X≡  Talk 18:51, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Making the WSOP Main Event a separate article
While it does make sense to include the main event in the wsop page there is enough information and history to make the wsop main event a separate article. This would also reduce the clutter in the wsop article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.25.24 (talk) 08:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * go for it...--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 05:11, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Poker Hall of Fame
Is it honestly necessary to list all of the Poker Hall of Fame members, considering we directly link to the page that lists all said members anyway?--BarryTheUnicorn (talk) 21:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Play of the Year table
Is it necessary to have Points column? It doesn't give much information unless there was a comparison between other players of the same year, due to varying numbers of events and the introduction of a new formula. If anything, it's likely to be more confusing than helpful. JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 22:30, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

International Federation of Poker
Since the article states: "The winner of the World Series of Poker Main Event is considered to be the World Champion of Poker"

(Which is a statement that I would agree with.) it is surely waranted a see also to the largest international body claiming to have held the "official" World Championships of poker see their website and is also repeated by several papers http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903703604576585303620587370.html?mod=googlewsj "The newly formed U.S. Poker Federation will be sending a six-person team to compete in two international poker competitions in London this November, officials announced Wednesday. Events will include the game's first world championship sanctioned by a chartered International Sports Federation"

I assume the reversion was done knowing this.Tetron76 (talk) 21:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter what a new organization "claims". The IFP has no connection to the WSOP. 2005 (talk) 18:43, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point. If it had a direct connection to WSOP then it would be in the article. This is a conversation about a "see also". Which is information which is relavent to someone reading the page but not directly connected. This has nothing to do with "claims" from the organisation. However, having done a more thorough online search, it would seem that it was premature to add the link to this page as most sources use qualifiersTetron76 (talk) 12:43, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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1994 Losing Hand
The youtube coverage of the final hand of the 1994 WSOP shows a "close-up" of the losing hand including the 8c, but there is also an 8c on the flop. The comments on youtube say this is not because of two 8c in deck, but actually because the losing hand was filmed and edited in during post-production (the relative positions of the cards is also different to how they appear in long shots). Do we have a proper source anywhere for what the losing hand was? If not we should at least change it to 8x5x — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.237.234.163 (talk) 19:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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WSOP Online and GGPoker
The World Series of Poker section hasn't been updated in a while, only referring to the 2009 agreement with Harrah's. WSOP has since partnered with GGPoker to create the WSOP Online Series. I've compiled some sources chronologically detailing the partnership between the WSOP and GGPoker if anyone would like to update this section. Chris H (GGPoker) (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

"2012 World Series of Poker Online Main Event" listed at Redirects for discussion
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"2012 World Series of Poker Online" listed at Redirects for discussion
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title: Talk:World Series of Poker


text:
Grotesque

Since at least the 18th century (in French and German, as well as English), grotesque has come to be used as a general adjective for the strange, mysterious, magnificent, fantastic, hideous, ugly, incongruous, unpleasant, or disgusting, and thus is often used to describe weird shapes and distorted forms such as Halloween masks. In art, performance, and literature, however, grotesque may also refer to something that simultaneously invokes an audience feeling of uncomfortable bizarreness as well as sympathetic pity.

The English word first appears in the 1560s as a noun borrowed from French, itself originally from the Italian grottesca (literally "of a cave" from the Italian grotta, 'cave'; see grotto), an extravagant style of ancient Roman decorative art rediscovered at Rome at the end of the fifteenth century and subsequently imitated. The word was first used of paintings found on the walls of basements of ruins in Rome that were called at that time le Grotte ('the caves'). These 'caves' were in fact rooms and corridors of the Domus Aurea, the unfinished palace complex started by Nero after the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64, which had become overgrown and buried, until they were broken into again, mostly from above. Spreading from Italian to the other European languages, the term was long used largely interchangeably with arabesque and moresque for types of decorative patterns using curving foliage elements.

Rémi Astruc has argued that although there is an immense variety of motifs and figures, the three main tropes of the grotesque are doubleness, hybridity and metamorphosis. Beyond the current understanding of the grotesque as an aesthetic category, he demonstrated how the grotesque functions as a fundamental existential experience. Moreover, Astruc identifies the grotesque as a crucial, and potentially universal, anthropological device that societies have used to conceptualize alterity and change.

Early examples in Roman ornament
In art, grotesques are ornamental arrangements of arabesques with interlaced garlands and small and fantastic human and animal figures, usually set out in a symmetrical pattern around some form of architectural framework, though this may be very flimsy. Such designs were fashionable in ancient Rome, especially as fresco wall decoration and floor mosaic. Stylized versions, common in Imperial Roman decoration, were decried by Vitruvius (c. 30 BC) who, in dismissing them as meaningless and illogical, offered the following description: "For example, reeds are substituted for columns, fluted appendages with curly leaves and volutes take the place of pediments, candelabra support representations of shrines, and on top of their roofs grow slender stalks and volutes with human figures senselessly seated upon them."

Emperor Nero's palace in Rome, the Domus Aurea, was rediscovered by chance in the late 15th century, buried in fifteen hundred years of land fill. Access into the palace's remains was from above, requiring visitors to be lowered into it using ropes as in a cave, or grotte in Italian. The palace's wall decorations in fresco and delicate stucco were a revelation.

Etymology in Renaissance
The first appearance of the word grottesche appears in a contract of 1502 for the Piccolomini Library attached to the duomo of Siena. They were introduced by Raphael Sanzio and his team of decorative painters, who developed grottesche into a complete system of ornament in the Loggias that are part of the series of Raphael's Rooms in the Vatican Palace, Rome. "The decorations astonished and charmed a generation of artists that was familiar with the grammar of the classical orders but had not guessed till then that in their private houses the Romans had often disregarded those rules and had adopted instead a more fanciful and informal style that was all lightness, elegance and grace." In these grotesque decorations a tablet or candelabrum might provide a focus; frames were extended into scrolls that formed part of the surrounding designs as a kind of scaffold, as Peter Ward-Jackson noted. Light scrolling grotesques could be ordered by confining them within the framing of a pilaster to give them more structure. Giovanni da Udine took up the theme of grotesques in decorating the Villa Madama, the most influential of the new Roman villas.

In the 16th century, such artistic license and irrationality was controversial matter. Francisco de Holanda puts a defense in the mouth of Michelangelo in his third dialogue of Da Pintura Antiga, 1548: "'this insatiable desire of man sometimes prefers to an ordinary building, with its pillars and doors, one falsely constructed in grotesque style, with pillars formed of children growing out of stalks of flowers, with architraves and cornices of branches of myrtle and doorways of reeds and other things, all seeming impossible and contrary to reason, yet it may be really great work if it is performed by a skillful artist.'"

Mannerism
The delight of Mannerist artists and their patrons in arcane iconographic programs available only to the erudite could be embodied in schemes of grottesche, Andrea Alciato's Emblemata (1522) offered ready-made iconographic shorthand for vignettes. More familiar material for grotesques could be drawn from Ovid's Metamorphoses.

The Vatican loggias, a loggia corridor space in the Apostolic Palace open to the elements on one side, were decorated around 1519 by Raphael's large team of artists, with Giovanni da Udine the main hand involved. Because of the relative unimportance of the space, and a desire to copy the Domus Aurea style, no large paintings were used, and the surfaces were mostly covered with grotesque designs on a white background, with paintings imitating sculptures in niches, and small figurative subjects in a revival of Ancient Roman style. This large array provided a repertoire of elements that were the basis for later artists across Europe.

In Michelangelo's Medici Chapel Giovanni da Udine composed during 1532–1533 "most beautiful sprays of foliage, rosettes and other ornaments in stucco and gold" in the coffers and "sprays of foliage, birds, masks and figures", with a result that did not please Pope Clement VII Medici, however, nor Giorgio Vasari, who whitewashed the grotesque decor in 1556. Counter Reformation writers on the arts, notably Cardinal Gabriele Paleotti, bishop of Bologna, turned upon grottesche with a righteous vengeance.

Vasari, echoing Vitruvius, described the style as follows: "'Grotesques are a type of extremely licentious and absurd painting done by the ancients ... without any logic, so that a weight is attached to a thin thread which could not support it, a horse is given legs made of leaves, a man has crane's legs, with countless other impossible absurdities; and the bizarrer the painter's imagination, the higher he was rated'."

Vasari recorded that Francesco Ubertini, called "Bacchiacca", delighted in inventing grotteschi, and (about 1545) painted for Duke Cosimo de' Medici a studiolo in a mezzanine at the Palazzo Vecchio "full of animals and rare plants". Other 16th-century writers on grottesche included Daniele Barbaro, Pirro Ligorio and Gian Paolo Lomazzo.

Engravings, woodwork, book illustration, decorations
In the meantime, through the medium of engravings the grotesque mode of surface ornament passed into the European artistic repertory of the 16th century, from Spain to Poland. A classic suite was that attributed to Enea Vico, published in 1540–41 under an evocative explanatory title, Leviores et extemporaneae picturae quas grotteschas vulgo vocant, "Light and extemporaneous pictures that are vulgarly called grotesques". Later Mannerist versions, especially in engraving, tended to lose that initial lightness and be much more densely filled than the airy well-spaced style used by the Romans and Raphael.

Soon grottesche appeared in marquetry (fine woodwork), in maiolica produced above all at Urbino from the late 1520s, then in book illustration and in other decorative uses. At Fontainebleau Rosso Fiorentino and his team enriched the vocabulary of grotesques by combining them with the decorative form of strapwork, the portrayal of leather straps in plaster or wood moldings, which forms an element in grotesques.

From Baroque to Victorian era
In the 17th and 18th centuries the grotesque encompasses a wide field of teratology (science of monsters) and artistic experimentation. The monstrous, for instance, often occurs as the notion of play. The sportiveness of the grotesque category can be seen in the notion of the preternatural category of the lusus naturae, in natural history writings and in cabinets of curiosities. The last vestiges of romance, such as the marvellous also provide opportunities for the presentation of the grotesque in, for instance, operatic spectacle. The mixed form of the novel was commonly described as grotesque – see for instance Fielding's "comic epic poem in prose" (Joseph Andrews and Tom Jones).

Grotesque ornament received a further impetus from new discoveries of original Roman frescoes and stucchi at Pompeii and the other buried sites round Mount Vesuvius from the middle of the century. It continued in use, becoming increasingly heavy, in the Empire Style and then in the Victorian period, when designs often became as densely packed as in 16th-century engravings, and the elegance and fancy of the style tended to be lost.

Extensions of the term in art
Artists began to give the tiny faces of the figures in grotesque decorations strange caricatured expressions, in a direct continuation of the medieval traditions of the drolleries in the border decorations or initials in illuminated manuscripts. From this the term began to be applied to larger caricatures, such as those of Leonardo da Vinci, and the modern sense began to develop. It is first recorded in English in 1646 from Sir Thomas Browne: "In nature there are no grotesques". By extension backwards in time, the term became also used for the medieval originals, and in modern terminology medieval drolleries, half-human thumbnail vignettes drawn in the margins, and carved figures on buildings (that are not also waterspouts, and so gargoyles) are also called "grotesques".

A boom in the production of works of art in the grotesque genre characterized the 1920–1933 period of German art. In contemporary illustration art, the "grotesque" figures, in the ordinary conversational sense, commonly appear in the genre grotesque art, also known as fantastic art.

In literature
One of the first uses of the term grotesque to denote a literary genre is in Montaigne's Essays. The Grotesque is often linked with satire and tragicomedy. It is an effective artistic means to convey grief and pain to the audience, and for this has been labeled by Thomas Mann as the "genuine antibourgeois style".

Some of the earliest written texts describe grotesque happenings and monstrous creatures. The literature of myth has been a rich source of monsters; from the one-eyed Cyclops from Hesiod's Theogony to Homer's Polyphemus in the Odyssey. Ovid's Metamorphoses is another rich source for grotesque transformations and hybrid creatures of myth. Horace's Art of Poetry also provides a formal introduction to classical values and to the dangers of grotesque or mixed form. Indeed, the departure from classical models of order, reason, harmony, balance and form opens up the risk of entry into grotesque worlds. Accordingly, British literature abounds with native grotesquerie, from the strange worlds of Spenser's allegory in The Faerie Queene to the tragi-comic modes of 16th-century drama. (Grotesque comic elements can be found in major works such as King Lear.)

Literary works of mixed genre are occasionally termed grotesque, as are "low" or non-literary genres such as pantomime and farce. Gothic writings often have grotesque components in terms of character, style and location. In other cases, the environment described may be grotesque – whether urban (Charles Dickens), or the literature of the American south which has sometimes been termed "Southern Gothic". Sometimes the grotesque in literature has been explored in terms of social and cultural formations such as the carnival(-esque) in François Rabelais and Mikhail Bakhtin. Terry Castle has written on the relationship between metamorphosis, literary writings and masquerade.

Another major source of the grotesque is in satirical writings of the 18th century. Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels provides a variety of approaches to grotesque representation. Corporeal hybridity is an essential marker in Swift. In poetry, the works of Alexander Pope provide many examples of the grotesque.

In fiction, characters are usually considered grotesque if they induce both empathy and disgust. (A character who inspires disgust alone is simply a villain or a monster.) Obvious examples would include the physically deformed and the mentally deficient, but people with cringe-worthy social traits are also included. The reader becomes piqued by the grotesque's positive side, and continues reading to see if the character can conquer their darker side. In Shakespeare's The Tempest, the figure of Caliban has inspired more nuanced reactions than simple scorn and disgust. Also, in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, the character of Gollum may be considered to have both disgusting and empathetic qualities, which fit the grotesque template.

Victor Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre-Dame is one of the most celebrated grotesques in literature. Dr. Frankenstein's monster from Mary Shelley's 1818 novel Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus can also be considered a grotesque, as well as the title character, Erik in The Phantom of the Opera and the Beast in Beauty and the Beast. Other instances of the romantic grotesque are also to be found in Edgar Allan Poe, E. T. A. Hoffmann, in Sturm und Drang literature or in Sterne's Tristram Shandy. The romantic grotesque is far more terrible and sombre than the medieval grotesque, which celebrated laughter and fertility. It is at this point that a grotesque creature such as Frankenstein's monster begins to be presented more sympathetically as the outsider who is the victim of society. But the novel also makes the issue of sympathy problematic in an unkind society. This means that society becomes the generator of the grotesque, by a process of alienation. In fact, the grotesque monster in Frankenstein tends to be described as "the creature".

The grotesque received a new shape with Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll, when a girl meets fantastic grotesque figures in her fantasy world. Carroll manages to make the figures seem less frightful and fit for children's literature, but still utterly strange. Another comic grotesque writer who played on the relationship between sense and nonsense was Edward Lear. Humorous, or festive nonsense of this kind has its roots in the seventeenth century traditions of fustian, bombastic and satirical writing.

During the nineteenth-century category of grotesque body was increasingly displaced by the notion of congenital deformity or medical anomaly. Building on this context, the grotesque begins to be understood more as deformity and disability, especially after the First World War, 1914–18. In these terms, the art historian Leah Dickerman has argued that "The sight of horrendously shattered bodies of veterans returned to the home front became commonplace. The accompanying growth in the prosthetic industry struck contemporaries as creating a race of half-mechanical men and became an important theme in dadaist work.' The poetry of Wilfred Owen displays a poetic and realistic sense of the grotesque horror of war and the human cost of brutal conflict. Poems such as Spring Offensive and Greater Love combined images of beauty with shocking brutality and violence in order to produce a sense of the grotesque clash of opposites. In a similar fashion, Ernst Friedrich (1894–1967), founder of the Berlin Peace Museum, an anarchist and a pacifist, was the author of War Against War (1924) which used grotesque photographs of mutilated victims of the First World War in order to campaign for peace.

Southern Gothic is a genre frequently identified with grotesques and William Faulkner is often cited as the ringmaster. Flannery O'Connor wrote, "Whenever I'm asked why Southern writers particularly have a penchant for writing about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one" (Some Aspects of the Grotesque in Southern Fiction, 1960). In O'Connor's often-anthologized short story A Good Man Is Hard to Find, the Misfit, a serial killer, is clearly a maimed soul, utterly callous to human life, but driven to seek the truth. The less obvious grotesque is the polite, doting grandmother who is unaware of her own astonishing selfishness. Another oft-cited example of the grotesque from O'Connor's work is her short story entitled A Temple of the Holy Ghost. The American novelist Raymond Kennedy is another author associated with the literary tradition of the grotesque.

Contemporary writers
Contemporary writers of literary grotesque fiction include Ian McEwan, Katherine Dunn, Alasdair Gray, Angela Carter, Jeanette Winterson, Umberto Eco, Patrick McGrath, Jessica Anthony, Natsuo Kirino, Paul Tremblay, Matt Bell, Chuck Palahniuk, Brian Evenson, Caleb J. Ross (who writes domestic grotesque fiction), Richard Thomas and many authors who write in the bizarro genre of fiction.

Pop culture
Other contemporary writers who have explored the grotesque in pop-culture are John Docker, in the context of postmodernism; Cintra Wilson, who analyzes celebrity; and Francis Sanzaro, who discusses its relation to childbirth and obscenity.

Alien Resurrection (1997) is the only film rated by the MPAA to have "grotesque images" in its rating description, mainly due to its depiction of the Newborn xenomorph and the failed clones of Ellen Ripley, who all featured grotesque human-alien (hybrid) characteristics.

Theatre of the Grotesque
The term "Theatre of the Grotesque" refers to an anti-naturalistic school of Italian dramatists, writing in the 1910s and 1920s, who are often seen as precursors of the Theatre of the Absurd. Characterized by ironic and macabre themes of daily life in the World War 1 era. Theatre of the Grotesque was named after the play 'The Mask and the Face' by Luigi Chiarelli, which was described as 'a grotesque in three acts.'

Friedrich Dürrenmatt is a major author of contemporary grotesque comedy plays.

In architecture
In architecture the term "grotesque" means a carved stone figure.

Grotesques are often confused with gargoyles, but the distinction is that gargoyles are figures that contain a water spout through the mouth, while grotesques do not. Without a water spout, this type of sculpture is also known as a chimera when it depicts fantastical creatures. In the Middle Ages, the term babewyn was used to refer to both gargoyles and grotesques. This word is derived from the Italian word babbuino, which means "baboon".

In typography
The word "grotesque", or "Grotesk" in German, is also frequently used as a synonym for sans-serif in typography. At other times, it is used (along with "neo-grotesque", "humanist", "lineal", and "geometric") to describe a particular style or subset of sans-serif typefaces. The origin of this association can be traced back to English typefounder William Thorowgood, who introduced the term "grotesque" and in 1835 produced 7-line pica grotesque—the first sans-serif typeface containing actual lowercase letters. An alternate etymology is possibly based on the original reaction of other typographers to such a strikingly featureless typeface.

Popular grotesque typefaces include Franklin Gothic, News Gothic, Haettenschweiler, and Lucida Sans (although the latter lacks the spurred "G"), whereas popular neo-grotesque typefaces include Arial, Helvetica, and Verdana.

title: Grotesque


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Talk:Charterhouse School

Untitled
You may want to consider upgrading this article to conform to WikiProject Schools. Davodd 07:54, Feb 24, 2004 (UTC)

Charterhouse moves to International Baccalaureate
In January 2009, Charterhouse made the decision to move from A-Level to the International Baccalaureate, along with the Pre-U course. Should this be added in? Grieferhate (talk) 16:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
Just a note - the school term is always spelt "Quarter" with an upper case "Q" (the school breaktime is called "quarter" with a lower case "q"). Grieferhate (talk) 07:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Houses: Old vs New
Duckites is here listed as an "old" house. surely incorrect. Duckites is a block house (i.e. in the main school block), but is not an old house: that is limited to S,V and G?

No its an Old House, mate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.210.231 (talk) 16:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Adminstratively it's classed as Old House, though it was built slightly later that S, V and G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.77.138 (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The “Old” houses are old not by reference to the buildings they are in, but because they pre-existed the move to Godalming: S, G and V. Houses subsequently founded by housemasters in Godalming are new. Hence the article is wrong - g is a new house.

Block houses are houses physically located in the main school block, as opposed to on Northbrook. Hence g is a block house (along with S, G and V)

Interestingly the proposed rebuilding of Saunderites in the Northbrook complex as a result of the shift to co-ed will mean that it ceases to be a block house, whilst remaining an old house (sand the senior house in the school, as the old headmaster’s house).

I will amend the article and footnote accordingly. James Harvey (talk) 12:34, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Largest War Memorial
Largest War Memorial? Surely All Souls, Oxford is a larger war memorial than Charterhouse chapel. Just a different war...

Response - it is the largest WWI memorial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.227.236.38 (talk) 11:32, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Uniform
IIRC, the Minor Sport's colours were a maroon tie with thin silver stripes. Has this changed? Jokl 02:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Yup —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yourmotherisagoose (talk • contribs) 16:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Sheep
Not the kind of thing that should go into the article (mostly due to lack of verification) but at a number of other independent schools during the 90s Charterhouse was known as "Chaaaaaaaarterhouse", with a long-drawn-out sheeplike noise in the middle. This was due to a supposed incident in which several boys had been found engaging in some kind of sexual act with a sheep in a bedroom or dorm at Weekites House. I've no idea if the story is true, but it was certainly widespread. PeteVerdon 13:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Again, not true. The story goes some guy thought it would be funny to catch a sheep and put it in some guy in Weekites room while he was away for the weekend. Just a practical joke. Allbeit a little odd... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.143.205 (talk) 23:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Please sign

--Alexandre8 (talk) 16:31, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

This is true. The Weekites house members where able to keep the sheep in the boarding house for a number of days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.227.236.38 (talk) 11:34, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

The Grounds of Charterhouse
Removed this section due to NPOV and fact it adds nothing to the article.

It read in full "The grounds at Charterhouse really are beautful and this is all thanks to the truly dedicated team of groundsmen and women who maintain the beauty of the school."[[User:Disneyfreak96|StareGirl]

 * How can you say that this section does not add any value to the article. Us Groundsmen and woman work really hard to keep the school looking at its best! This little bit of recognition to our ongoing efforts goes a long way in saying thanks. By removing it  - smacks of a slap in the face!!! user:siphoxolo

 * Wikipedia doesn't exist to make you feel good about the job you do, though. 82.22.219.217 (talk) 16:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Charterhouse terms
Is it true that the vocabulary of Charterhouse is called "notions", like that of Winchester, or is that a misunderstanding? Can some Carthusian enlighten me? --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 16:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I am a present carthusian now going in the upper sixth, most of the words shown we use, but some are extinct. We do not call it "notions," its just our school slang, nothing really special.

Stop putting in Controversy
Do you realise how offensive it is for Carthusians to have the Controversy put down?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?! Stop putting in Controversy, please, as I am a current Carthusian and find this very offensive! Very little of it is true!

I agree this section is a JOKE. Other public schools such as Eton and Harrow don't have a controversy sections, so why should Charterhouse? This website goes on and on about it being an encyclopaedia and that only FACTS should be put in. Why then, if this is the case, is there a section entitled controversy? Surely, this goes against everything Wikipedia goes on and on about? It was a big mistake having a 'Controversy' section, an embarrassing one.

 * Eton - eight subsections on controversy. Harrow - the cartel is mentioned but not under a heading 'controversy'. If the controversies can be backed up by reference to reliable external sources, then of course they should be there. 'I am embarrassed' and 'I am offended' do nothing to negate this view. 31.52.252.180 (talk) 14:53, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

 * It is actually meant as a more tempered heading than "Negative Press" or "Mistakes", having reviewed this article among a local list, such euphemisms are not uncommon across the slate of all articles. If anyone would like to propose below a more subtle heading than "Mistakes" (I am generally as subtle and euphemistic as a sledgehammer) go ahead.  I see scandals comes up in headings below — Sheridan would be proud.- Adam37  Talk  09:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Where has the article gone?!?!?!?!?!?!?????
Why has such a large section of the article been deleted? I am shocked at how much has gone. Bring it back! Bring it back! Bring it back!
 * Now fixed, though I've removed the glossary on the basis it could be considered to be listcruft. -- zzuuzz (talk) 15:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I still find the glossary important, as things like that make up the culture of people who go to public schools. These sayings are key parts of public school, they are not minor and listcruft. For these reasons I believe that the glossary should be reinstated.--Jammydodger 15:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There are many problems with a glossary. First, it was completely unreferenced, failing the fundamental Wikipedia policy. Second and partly related, it's a magnet for made-up abusive crap such as SELF RINSAGE. Third, it contains items which are not sayings or jargon at all and/or can be looked up in a simple common dictionary, for example SUTTON'S HOSPITAL, STUDENT COUNCIL, HEADMASTER'S ESSAY SOCIETY, CHAPEL, LONDON CHARTERHOUSE, EXEAT, CHETWYND. Other terms such as JDTC and BTT are of no interest to anyone at all. There are some interesting relevant facts within what was the glossary, but this should not be a tedious and ever-expanding laundry list, it should be turned to prose and properly referenced, which in turn would indicate that the world of knowledge does not consider these facts to be minor small-world trivia, thus befitting an encyclopaedia not the Urban Dictionary. Unreferenced stuff should be junked as it is obviously of no interest to any publisher. -- zzuuzz (talk) 16:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, for the benefit of non-OCs, someone could explain what 'Hashes' is (or are) -- Markcymru (talk) 20:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

BRING BACK THE GLOSSARY
Please bring back the Glossary, it was so funny and extremley accurate, at least bring back the Glossary on the official website

Fees
Charterhouse is Britain's most expensive public school. Consult Tatler's school guide under boarding fees and stop changing it to 'second' to satisfy your financial insecurities.

Many thanks

 * Is this even true? On their website fees are £25,152 per annum. See http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/Admissions/fees.asp

 * If you are an old Carthusisan, at least check your spelling.

Am a current Carthusian. Fees are now at a figure of around £47,640. Would someone please edit, as current figure if fairly inaccurate.

YAY
Charterhouse rocks!

Deo dante dedi
I'm puzzled by the translation of the school motto. Dante looks to me like the ablative singular of the present participle of do, so it goes with Deo, With God giving, and dedi is the first person singular of the perfect tense of do, I gave. So why not "God giving, I gave" ? Xn4 17:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Is there any objection to the translation being corrected, as above? Xn4 02:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

 * No particular objection, but we were always taught that it means God having given, I give. That makes more sense too.

 * That would clearly be a more convenient meaning, encouraging Old Carthusians to give in the present and the future, but it isn't what the motto says! Xn4  14:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Any relation to "Charterhouse Rules"?
As in, rules for a forum in which the participants may not be quoted (in order to encourage free discussion).

See http://www.newciv.org/cob/members/benking/voicetxt.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.135.231.49 (talk) 05:03, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

No, you're thinking of the Chatham House Rule. 155.198.16.109 (talk) 14:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Cool - Charterhouse Rules OK!

Phrasing broken
The end of the first sentence, "...also referred to a public school situated at Godalming in Surrey" doesn't quite make sense. I'd fix it but it is unclear what it actually means, so can someone who knows do so? Huw Powell (talk) 23:24, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

50-Mile Walk
Not sure the story that the SEALs challenged the school in the 1950s is all that correct. While the US Navy had SEAL-like organizations since WWII such as the UDTs, the SEALs did not become a formal organization - with that name - until 1961/62. 80.4.81.4 (talk) 00:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)US Army Officer80.4.81.4 (talk) 00:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC) US Naval History website

The 50 mile walk began after I believe Winston Churchill said that "even our school children can walk 50 miles in a day". The school took it upon themselves to prove him right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.227.236.38 (talk) 11:37, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Robert Graves
The school plays a prominent role in Goodbye to All That, a book which was kind of famous ca. 1930. Graves was extremely unhappy there, because he found that the school had a culture which encouraged pervasive petty bullying and anti-intellectualism, and very little was valued other than success at team sports. AnonMoos (talk) 15:55, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Scandals
There have been a number of scandals at Charterhouse School. Drugs were mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.26.92 (talk) 10:48, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Anything but associated with this school nor a liberal, I have to say thank you for that but in its lack of detail/citation/noteworthiness/time period it does offend the Talk page header which gives links to wikipedia's policies. WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:N all come to mind.- Adam37  Talk  09:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

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Private School
I would suggest that Charterhouse School be described as a private school. The description independent is vague and unclear. Wikipedia is global and most readers recognise organisations as being either public sector or private sector. 'Independent school' is an Anglocentric term and is just not a recognised term in most countries. It only serves to open up questions; independent from whom? Independen from what?

 * The British English word for such schools is 'public'! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.252.180 (talk) 14:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Over the last ten years most UK public sector secondary schools have converted to academies and are therefore independent. They're independent of central government and Local Education Authority control. This development has made it all the more confusing to describe private schools as independent. If you take private healthcare; go to the BUPA article and in the opening paragraph it is described as a private hospital. If private schools have private school in the opening paragraph the link takes the reader to an article that makes explicitly clear:

Private schools, also known as independent schools, non-governmental, or nonstate schools,[1] are not administered by local, state or national governments; thus, they retain the right to select their students and are funded in whole or in part by charging their students tuition, rather than relying on mandatory taxation through public (government) funding; at some private schools students may be able to get a scholarship, which makes the cost cheaper, depending on a talent the student may have (e.g. sport scholarship, art scholarship, academic scholarship), financial need, or tax credit scholarships that might be available.

That is clear, unambiguous and uneqivocal. (Garageland66 (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2016 (UTC)).

Infobox
The infoboxes for the seven historic English public schools are, at present, inconsistent. Five have the School Type  listed as ‘Independent’, one has it as ‘Private’ and only one has it as ‘Public’. Can I propose that, for the sake of consistency, they all have ‘Public School’ in the infobox. They are defined as such by the 1868 Public Schools Act. Is there a consensus on this? Garageland66 (talk) 11:30, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

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Directorship?
"Pleming would step down from his position as Headmaster in January, less than three years into his directorship"--is the headmaster really a director? What of? 31.52.252.180 (talk) 14:48, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Not in the Companies Act sense but in direction yes; the word directorship is the individualised form of direction and although connotes legal Director in that very narrow sense due to the proliferation of companies it is not just reserved for company directors. It also appears the right level of dilution. If direction is written that connotes a narrow dictatorship or very individualised vision and if one says trusteeship that is too loose, the other trustees delegate many day-to-day executive functions to the head, who in turn delegates specialised roles and tasks as is seen fit. The distinction is so subtle it is not really my forte.- Adam37  Talk  09:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Who was the Prime Minister?
Quite early on, this article says that Charterhouse School has educated one British Prime Minister. It would be helpful if the article said who this Prime Minister was. Vorbee (talk) 17:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * - Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool. Absolutely agree the article should be explicit. KJP1 (talk) 21:06, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Removel of unsourced
A very large portion of this article is either unsourced or sourced to primary sources. The entire house section for example has been marked as such since 2016, Memorial Chapel, Uniform, Events, Monitors, and House Apostles are entirely unsourced or primary sources. Most of the history section is primary sources or unsourced. Poorly sourced sections include Sports, Origins of football (which is quite the claim to be unsourced). Other sections are just plane not encyclopedic such as the Carthusian Language, Fees is more for the organizations website. There is an argument about it being very expensive as but those are all primary sources. The intro paragraph makes a claim that "It educated the British Prime Minister Lord Liverpool and has a long list of notable alumni, sounds promotional to me. Look who was educated here (in the first section) We have the list of notable alumni, and who is to say it is long? VViking Talk Edits 22:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Sorry mate about overloading you personal page with replies. Not my intention to cause annoyance, to war over a page or to convey any 'ownership' over a particular article. I am simply trying to convey my views on this and why I believe the information in the article to be important. I can confirm, by the way, that the Origins of Football section is completely accurate. The school archives will have evidence, most likely scanned and digitised, to act as sources for the currently unsourced claims. I will endeavour to find all that I can and add references where appropriate.
 * I believe the list of alumni is not promotional content, but heritage. Harvard University's wiki page has a 'notable alumni' section. Would you like me to remove that as well? Hundis09 (talk) 23:18, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * List of Alumni is totally good, but it was the placement right at the start of the article that I had issues with. I re-read the information on the origins of football, and while the first portion is not well sourced the rest looked good. I would be good with putting that part back in. Also my apologies on the ownership part. I went overboard on that, you are within your rights to disagree and you are new. Thank you for being as civil as you are.-- VViking Talk Edits 23:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries mate. Retrospectively, I probably should not have hit undo on your changes as many times as I did. Heat of the moment, you know? I agree that the placement of the alumni section should not be at the start. Hundis09 (talk) 23:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Broken source
I used a current link, but the source shows up as a template. I don’t know how to fix it since it doesn’t show up in the edit page. It’s citation number 4. Thanks. Bigbrain132 (talk) 21:00, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

I fixed it, apologies for making a dumb post. I guess it’s best I learn to not make mistakes on less active pages. Bigbrain132 (talk) 21:54, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Uniform section
The uniform section is largely outdated and not common among other school articles. I think it would be best for anything that can be included in other sections (like sports) to be moved there, or deleted. Alternatively, a ‘school life’ section could be added with a small (much smaller than now) description of uniforms. Cowinatree (talk) 15:42, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Old house vs new house
Old houses are ONLY house created before 1872. Despite the fact that Duckites (girdlestoneites) is in old school (and Sutton as well) does not mean they are old houses. The new houses used to be next to duckites, so going by that logic all houses would be old houses. Cowinatree (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Charterhouse School


text: Talk:Columbine High School

title: Talk:Columbine High School