text:
User talk:Darrien/archive1

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Affirmative action
On the affirmative action, it's important to point out arguments against affirmative action to maintain a neutral point of view. I've just put all that material into a separate section to show how it's not part of the movement itself, but an opposition opinion. --zandperl 18:07, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Re Sulph/furic acid - if you want to move it, you can do it yourself :) Just use the Move This Page link. I'll let you do it, so you can practice... HTH Dysprosia 22:30, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Ok, done. By the way, if you want to indent, you don't have to use spaces, just use a semicolon at the beginning of each line. Dysprosia 22:48, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Indeed, i guess you created dimethylmercury ... i guess we created it at the same time, and it said it had been edited since i pressed the submit button ... i just added your bit about the profs death. Whatever, it makes no diff =p YahoKa 18:47, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Folder_cyan.png
My goodness, I'd never thought I'd get into a dispute over a darn picture. Have you read: Dispute resolution ?

I think you may not have done so, since you continued to revert after I'd asked you to discuss things on talk. In fact, you did so twice. That's just not very polite of you.

 * I reverted only once after you asked me to discuss on talk.

 * Darrien 11:31, 2004 Apr 5 (UTC)

Just in case I'll need it, I'm also going to point you to Quickpolls_policy. I hate quickpolls though, let's try to stay constructive.

I've posted a constructive way out of this dispute at talk:file system

have a nice day! Kim Bruning 10:12, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

fyi: page history:
 * 1) (cur) (last)  . . 12:02, 4 Apr 2004 . . Darrien (rv: Remove unneccesary image yet again.)
 * 2) (cur) (last) . . 11:25, 4 Apr 2004 . . Kim Bruning (RV the image back again. I will not have an rv war over this. Take it to talk now please. Thank you very much.)
 * 3) (cur) (last) . . 11:00, 4 Apr 2004 . . Darrien (rv: Remove image again. It's unneccesary and has nothing to do with filesystems.)
 * 4) (cur) (last) . . m 09:18, 4 Apr 2004 . . Hadal (image fmt)
 * 5) (cur) (last) . . 09:15, 4 Apr 2004 . . Kim Bruning (rv to before Daniel. (Daniel, you didn't explain why you removed the image on talk?))

That's 2 times. Maybe you missed it the first time. Thank you for conceding that you did in fact do so with full knowlege at least once.

Now I'm willing to grant that maybe you hadn't read Dispute resolution at that point in time, or maybe you'd simply forgotten. That's fine by me. But well, please don't claim that I'm lying.

I would like to find a constructive solution here, which will help wikipedia. I hope you're willing to cooperate. I'll ask a sysop to come in and take a look at our dispute and give some all round advice.

Have a nice day! Kim Bruning 12:26, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * I see only one revert after you asked for me to use the talk pages. If you think that there is more than one, then please show it to me.

 * Darrien 14:21, 2004 Apr 6 (UTC)

You like to weed out typos. :-) Oh well, it was my typo:
 * 1) (cur) (last) . . 09:15, 4 Apr 2004 . . Kim Bruning (rv to before Daniel. (Daniel, you didn't explain why you removed the image on talk?))

s/Daniel/Darrien/ DARN!

Next time I'll certainly wait 24 hours before dealing with an odd looking rv. If people get hasty they start making small mistakes like that. Note that you shouldn't really revert at all if you take things to talk. Anyway, Have a nice day! Kim Bruning 17:29, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

EADS Phoenix
I would like to know why the spelling of the word "programme" and the SI units should be in German, when clearly the article isn't. I don't see why it is necessary, but I'm looking forward to hear why. -- Maver1ck 09:11, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I will answer this on the EADS talk page. Please do not leave a message on two pages, saying the same thing. If you wish to discuss an article, use its talk page. If you do not recieve a response in a reasonable amount of time, then you may wish to leave a message on a user's talk page.

 * Darrien 16:01, 2004 May 22 (UTC)

Vandalism
It is rather cute that you even go so far as to label your reversions 'vandalism'. Please do stop though vandalising my work though. Your only argument is that punctuation must be consistent. If all the hyphens are corrected, where is the inconsistency? You must explain yourself before embarking on an edit war. Chameleon 17:13, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

 * See my comment on Village_pump

 * Darrien 17:21, 2004 May 23 (UTC)

Jeffrey Combs
Judging from your talk page, I see abrasiveness is not one of your more uncommon traits.

With regards to signatures: have you ever seen a real encyclopedia? Article authors often sign their work. Calling it "vain" is therefore insulting and rather inaccurate.

With regards to HTML markup: Wikipedia's code seems counterintuitive to me. I've already learned HTML, so why not use it? The same result is given on the page and is more universally recognized on the web. It may also help decrease the burden on the Wikipedia server.

I'm re-adding my signature.

 * Darrien is abrasive, but you are wrong here. — Chameleon 22:29, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Skin color
Darrien, have you tried the other skins? One of them might work for you. Try Standard, it's the old skin that we had before. RickK 21:58, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I am using standard. I have also tried all the other skins. Nostalgia doesn't have the side bar, the font is *way* too small in Cologne Blue, and Monobook is so horrible that it causes me physical pain when I look at it.

 * Darrien 22:08, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Try clearing your cache. I was having problems until I did that, but I'm using the Standard skin, and it looks just the same as the old version.  ::RickK 23:39, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Still the same. I doubt it's anything on my end because the only text that is changing is between two "==".

 * Darrien 01:23, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Try the preferences link, then select skins and choose one of the four available skins. Standard is the old default skin, which is completely unchanged.

 * Or use User:Darrien/monobook.css to overwrite the monobook settings to suit your needs.

Rampage?
Are you and David Gerard having a multi-article rampage war? You might want to get out before people take notice. The one who continues will be more at fault. - Tεx  τ  urε  15:51, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Space article
I see the CJK link at the top now, thanks. On the other hand, I think it'd still be useful to have it linked from within the table, because it's easy to miss if the reader skips the paragraph on international & historical usage. Also, I think the link is actually more relevant down there. — Gwalla | Talk 07:05, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ed Wood
Hi there. I noticed that you made minor (but valuable) edits to the Edward D. Wood, Jr. page I'm working on. Thanks for that! I wonder if you'd be able to drop by that page again? I tried to add an image today but I've never done that before and I'm not sure why it isn't working. Does Wikipedia need to approve it first or something? Thanks, buddy! - Angry_Candy

 * It looks like you've got everything working. Do you still need help?

 * Darrien 21:34, 2004 Jul 13 (UTC)

Race image
Hi, I noticed you ditched the image I added to race. I put this on to move the article from Articles missing pictures on WP:FAC. Can you find an appropriate image? Cheers, Lupin 01:07, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't see why it needs an image. Race is an abstract concept and cannot be represented with an image.

 * Darrien 01:22, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)

 * Very well. Would you object to illustrating (for example) the sections that talk about activists including Martin Luther King with images of those activists and/or their activism? Lupin 09:42, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes I would. The article is primarily about race in a biological sense. If you must clutter up the page with semi-tangentially related pictures, I would suggest something along the lines of this: Image:Binary-tree-structure.png.

 * Darrien 21:48, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)

Sulfur and aluminium
When you're done correcting "sulphur" to the IUPAC standard "sulfur", will you be correcting "aluminum" to IUPAC standard "aluminium"? There are many such pages: Indium, for example, claims it's "chemically similar to aluminum". Marnanel 14:59, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, I will. I have corrected it in the past and continue to do so now. If you see any references to aluminum, feel free to correct them.

 * Darrien 21:48, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)

GNU GPL changes
I disagree with your recent changes to the GNU GPL page. You labeled an externally linked article as "why the GPL is too constrictive". I previously labeled it as "an opinion piece claiming the GNU GPL is too restrictive". A scientist can explain an accepted fact, such as "why the earth goes around the Sun", but she can't say "Why God exists" - that's an issue of belief. Whether the GPL is too constrictive or not is also an issue of belef, not accepted fact. I do prefer the word "constrictive" over "restrictive", but I think the label should be "an opinion piece arguing that the GNU GPL is too constrictive".

 * If you are going to label it as an opinion piece, then you must also label: "Make Your Open Source Software GPL-Compatible. Or Else. ...why a GPL-compatible license is important to the health of a project" as an opinion piece.

 * Maybe such opinion pieces should be in a subsection. I'll leave as-is for now.

Secondly, you removed my link to the text of GPL v1.0. I can't see any reason for removing this historically relevent and important document. I'd like to re-add it, and to make the above change, but will this be reverted again, or have I justified my work? Gronky

 * I did not remove it, I moved it.

 * Darrien 04:41, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)

 * D'oh. My mistake.  Gronky 22:47, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

race
Several people have taken time on the talk page to explain why the photos need a lengthy caption. Yet you continue to revert, without addressing anyone on the talk page. Please stop. If you can't accept the consensus on the talk page, go to the mediation committee and ask for mediation. But stop reverting. Slrubenstein

Mediation
Hi Darrien. Slrubenstein has requested mediation with you on the race article. Please go to Requests for mediation and let us know if you agree to participate in mediation. Thank you. moink 19:45, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

209.161.5.161
Darrien,

Please be advised re the ban warning you issued at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:209.161.5.161 that this IP address is one of three public IPs from a large aerospace company with ~170,000 employees (Samspade will let you know which one, if you're really curious). Anyone who hits the web from inside the company has a 33% chance of showing up as being from that addy.

Banning that address would affect a lot of people. Just FYI.

Linux caption, information in captions
I think your wrong in wanting short image captions that do nothing but identify the object in the image.

 * You think my wrong is what?

 * Your wrong is in trolling. Did I point out that the logical conclusion to draw from your changelog comment "Don't put information in captions..." implies that there's no point in having captions? We're out of band here, gimme some slack.--Kop 16:54, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Please read No personal attacks before you respond to me again.

 * Point taken. Your right.  I'll try again.  --Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I think you're making fun of my writing. If true, this is a personal attack and not nice.  --Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Be realistic, if I can't understand what you write, then I can't respond to it. If you believe that me asking you to clairify what you mean is a personal attack, then please end this discussion *now* and refrain from talking to me in the future.

Your position seems to conflict with Captions guidelines.

 * If it does, then the guidelines conflict with the examples they give of good captions at WikiProject_Writing_Captions. A few examples from DOOM, Olympics, History of computing hardware,      and Charles Graner:

 * For months before the Olympic Games, runners relay the Olympic Flame from Olympia to the opening ceremony.

 * Athletes trained in this Olympia facility in its heyday.

 * With 10 Olympic titles, Ray Ewry may be considered the most successful Olympic athlete in history.

 * Gears are at the heart of mechanical devices like the Curta calculator.

 * The slide rule, a basic mechanical calculator, facilitates multiplication and division.

 * Nomograms, like this Smith chart serve as analog computers for specific classes of problems.

 * Electronic computers became possible with the advent of the vacuum tube.

 * ENIAC performed ballistics trajectory calculations with 160kW of power.

 * Transistors, above, revolutionized computers replacing vacuum tubes as smaller and more efficient replacements for vacuum tubes.

 * Graner poses with Pvt. Lynndie England.

 * A picture showing Graner (marked number one) and other prison staff.

 * Graner poses over the dead body of Manadel al-Jamadi, an Iraqi prisoner; a small patch of blood can be seen on his right temple and his eyes are sealed closed with tape.

 * The DOOM title artwork depicts the lone hero, a space marine, fighting demonic creatures.

 * Episode I: Knee-Deep in the Dead takes place in a military base. In this image the player is currently using the chainsaw, a powerful melee-only weapon.  Pools of toxic waste are visible on both sides, and a zombified marine approaches.

 * Episode III: Inferno is set in Hell. The player has just fired the shotgun at a group of Imps and is reloading it. He is badly injured and has only seven shells left.

 * Adrian Carmack working on the Baron of Hell. The DOOM monsters were digitized from clay models.

 * In this screenshot from DOOM II: Hell on Earth, the player has just fired the double-barrelled shotgun, thus exploding a minigun-equipped zombie.

 * Notice how all of them simply describe the picture?

 * Let me be more accurate in my phrasing. Captions should not (just) name the subject of the picture.--Kop 16:54, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * That sounds more like a new statement than a re-phrasal of your original one.

 * Could be, none the less, that was what I had in mind when I first wrote. --Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You should consider reverting your change to the Linux caption. --Kop 14:33, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I have changed it so the text displayed under the picture meets the definition of the word "caption". Please let me know if this is acceptable to you.

 * I think you've a very good caption there. (Somebody might quibble about dashes, but that's detail and a dash is ok by me.)  However, for the very reason you pointed out in the image caption changelog I think your caption is more appropriate for the image in the Tux article.  Your caption is about Tux, with a little Linux thrown in.  I prefer my caption for the Linux article as it's more about Linux with some Tux thrown in.

 * You seem to think that the word "caption" has a meaning which it does not. The relevant entry from Webster defines "caption" as: "the explanatory comment or designation accompanying a pictorial illustration". A caption should not contain anything more than a description of the picture, not only because the definition of the word (and Wikipedia policy) says so, but so that people using a screen reader (or text browser) can form an image of what is in the picture. Extra information, or information that if one were interested in, is visibly linked to in the caption, only serves to clutter the page.

 * I think the Wikipedia will be most useful if the "explanatory comment" explains the relationship of the picture to the article in which it appears. This is how I read Captions points 2, 3 and 4.  An ideal caption will present this 'extra information' without significantly detracting from the visual description presented via a screen reader, because it is, well, extra.  --Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * But you raise a good point here and one worth bringing to the attention of the WikiProject Writing Captions people. Captions are not ideal and there's only so much that will fit.  WikiProject Writing Captions seems to directly conflict with Alternative text for images, which on a quick reading seems to want exactly what you want, the text should just describe the image.  I was under the impression that when an image was uploaded it got descriptive text along with it, and the descriptive text would then be used as an image alternative text for screen readers, etc.  This would be the descriptive text which would always go with the image.  It seems there is a place for descriptive text to go with the image but it is not used as the alternative text for the image, and seems more centered around copyright tracking.  The Image:M1A1 abrams front.jpg image appearing on Tank has an image description that begins with "A front view of an M1A1 Abrams..." that would be the perfect alternative text.  But it is not used.  :-( I now notice that the alt text of all the images is the same as the captions, and I don't think this should be the case.  They serve two different purposes.  If MediaWiki had a image alternative text to go with the image, and used it as alternative text, then we'd both be satisfied (and the Alternative text people wouldn't have to duke it out with the Writing Captions people.)  What do you think? --Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * That sounds OK to me, though I would still prefer captions to be somewhat limited in verbosity. At the font size I use, overly long captions can severely impair readability of an article.

 * FYI, There seem to be a number of threads related to this. I believe they're all referenced at this MediaWiki URL. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.3_comments_and_bug_reports#Separate_captions_and_alt_text -- kop 00:05, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Consider the general case where many articles use the same image, and rightly so. Clearly (to me) one caption will not best serve all articles.

 * This is where we differ. One caption should be good enough in all but the rarest cases, as a caption is only describing the image.

 * Ah, this is the crux of the matter then. --Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * What criteria should be used to craft the best caption for each article, or, to put it another way, what should be the distinguishing characteristic(s) that differentiate these image captions?

 * OT, Your caption does contain information already in the Tux article.

 * You didn't seem to have a problem with your caption containing information in the Tux article, why should you with mine?

 * I don't have a problem, I'm just stating the fact as the topic of my paragraph.--Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't think this is a problem in a Tux article caption as I see no reason not to assume that many people will first look at an article's image and caption and then, perhaps, go on to read the article. I buy the argument at Captions  We are not looking for the highest possible information density, "accessibility/friendliness" is a concern too.  Of course, the article could always be amended to exclude any information present in the caption.

 * What if a blind reader were to configure their screen reader to *not* read text from image captions? Omiting information in an article because it is duplicated in a caption would deprive them of information.

 * Which is why I say we are 'not' looking for the highest possible information density, it's fine to duplicate information.--Kop 08:18, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Darrien 06:35, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)

 * Darrien 03:54, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)

 * --Kop 16:54, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Darrien 20:12, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)

At the distinct risk of jumping into the frey, I see a couple of things going on here:
 * Captions conflicts with Alternative text for images, and the chief reason for that conflict is technical: there is no (convenient) facility for specifying separate alt text and caption. (Ergo, we should ask for a facility.)  I will explain this on Wikipedia_talk:Captions if nobody beats me to it.  Further, we need to figure out how to request the change.
 * At least some of the captions cited as examples of good captions are not. I avoided checking the captions on the Charles Graner article because I got into a spat with the primary author over its featured status as relates to the pictures included.  Upon review, several of the captions are less than stellar.
 * Others of those captions cited provide additional information. Consider this caption I wrote:
 * Nomograms, like this Smith chart serve as analog computers for specific classes of problems.

 * Before the edit, it was "Smith chart" or "Nomogram" IIRC. Neither told me anything about what the thing was or what it was good for, and without prior knowledge of its purpose, it just looked like a pretty Spirograph drawing. I researched it to learn its purpose, and included that in the caption.  It most certainly gives more information than just a label for the picture.

 * Likewise, the caption which used to be "Olympia training facility" IIRC
 * Athletes trained in this Olympia facility in its heyday.

 * brings the facility back to life for the viewer.

 * All that said, these captions are not perfect. They are wiki text just like most of the rest of this encyclopedia.  -- ke4roh 12:17, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * I did like Kop's caption about Tux. Even though it repeated information about Tux from that other article, it helped me to understand the relationship of the penguin to Linux — without having to first become an expert on Tux.  The capiton there today tells me only slightly more than I can see with my eyes, so it's good for alt text, but not so good for a caption. -- ke4roh 12:27, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

Interwiki links
Hi! I noticed that you changed the interwiki link ordering on some articles I have added fi: link. Do you think it is right ? I thought they should be in such order that the resulting links in the rendered page are in alphabetical order. Jpk 13:55, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I know it's counter-intuitive, but the de-facto standard here is to have the interwiki links alphabetical in the source, not as rendered. They probably should be changed so they are alphabetical when rendered, but the vast majority of articles aren't. It would create too much confusion to have some articles one way and the rest another.

 * If you want to have this changed, you can leave a note at Village pump. Someone may be willing to write a bot to convert the entire database, or change the software so it automatically renders in the correct order.

 * Darrien 21:48, 2004 Sep 2 (UTC)

Edit attribution
Hi Darrien. There is a pending request from you to reattribute edits from 66.159.212.41 to you, but this IP has no edits. Was the request already processed? Thanks  — Kate Turner | Talk 04:37, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)

 * Yes.

 * Darrien 20:51, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)

Spelling
Please don't change British English spellings for AE spellings for the sake of it. Mintguy (T) 22:30, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I was going to say the same to you. The manual of style says that American topics should have American spelling. Since potato chips were created in America, it should have American spelling.

 * Darrien 22:59, 2004 Sep 21 (UTC)

 * However, you're editing the word flavouring, which refers to the Irish invention of flavoured crisps. In Ireland, we use the u in the spelling Kiand 23:09, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * That argument might work if the article was focused on flavored potato chips, but it's not. Also, looking through the history, I found that the article originally used "flavor". Changing the spelling to "flavour" in the first place was against wikipedia policy.

 * Darrien 23:13, 2004 Sep 21 (UTC)

 * The introduction on the subject of flavourings was introducted in this edit . The subject is not a US subject it is a worldwide subject. Please don't change again. Mintguy (T) 08:31, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Sorry, but the main focus of the article is on potato chips, an American invention. The MoS says not to have a mix of spellings, so we can't have just that section use the "-our" ending. And the edit you cited above went against wikipedia policy when it changed the spelling. I'm going to have to ask *you* not to change it again.

 * Darrien 09:24, 2004 Sep 23 (UTC)

 * Its an internationally available product, they're sold everywhere, and the flavourings are an Irish invention. I've changed back to the proper, original, real spelling of the word Flavour.
 * Kiand 15:12, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * No, if you check the edit history, the article originally used "flavor". It was changed against wikipedia policy to "flavour". Does the fact that the article is titled "Potato chips" not suggest that American spelling should be/was used to begin with? The introductory sentence "Potato chips (or crisps in British and Irish usage)" has already established that this article was written from an American viewpoint.

 * If you have a dispute with the spelling used in the article, you should talk to the policy makers. They are the ones that wrote the rules that I (acting on behalf of the community as a whole) am attemping to enforce.

 * Why don't you leave this article with the American spelling and create another such as Flavored potato chips or Flavoured crisps where it will be an Irish invention and can use Irish spelling?

 * Darrien 20:04, 2004 Sep 23 (UTC)

 * No, I don't see why I, or anyone else, should have to pander to American dumbing down of the English language on an International article.

 * However, at this stage I'm considering unredirecting Crisps and writing an article that uses real English, and refers solely to the European interpretation of crisps, just because the Americans on the Wikipedia seem to assume the world revolves around them. No other countries use the retardo-spellings

 * Kiand 20:48, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I can see now that it's useless to try to reason with you. Your bigotry has blinded you to the point where you can't even see that what you're doing violates wikipedia policy. Good day.

 * Darrien 02:22, 2004 Sep 24 (UTC)

American Bobtail
PLEASE stop with the color/colour arguement. This is such a miniscule detail. Thank you. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 21:54, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

English
From the MoS "For the English Wikipedia, there is no preference among the major national varieties of English." In the list of rules and exceptions that follows there is no mention of IUPAC conventions, or anything similar. The IUPAC rules also do not mention spelling, only naming, thus resolving what could be seen as a contradiction. As to the MoS discussion, I have no interest in changing the status quo and little interest in the subject in entirely. You are the one proposing substantial changes to the encyclopedia, and it is thus you who's obligated to reach consensus. - SimonP 04:41, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Is this related to the discussion we're having here: User talk:SimonP? If so, please respond to me on your talk page so I, and others, can more easily follow the line of dialog.

 * Darrien 10:45, 2004 Sep 28 (UTC)

Periodic table
I was rushed and had to log off before I could make it perfect. It was always intended to be a different colour. Most things I do can be considered works in progress. I am real glad someone approves because everywhere I turn these days are people being assholes to me. That doesn't belong on the list because of that POV reason, that is wrong because of this POV... Cheers --metta, T he  S unborn  ☸  02:36, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Gratoutious Linux References
Live CD. Reads like an advertisment for Linux.

Kiand 15:44, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for cleaning that up. Didn't want to tackle it myself after my rant on the attached talk page... Kiand 18:38, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * No problem, thanks for the tip.

 * Darrien 18:50, 2004 Nov 10 (UTC)

title: User talk:Darrien/archive1


text:
User talk:Dirtbiscuit

Hi there -- I just wanted to let you know that I cut-and-pasted SANE, Inc. back to SANE. First, "SANE" is the name the group is known by, and "SANE. Inc." was generally only used when differentiating between the 501(c)(3), the "SANE Education Fund" and the 501(c)(4) "SANE, Inc." Second, if you move pages in the future, you should always use the move this page feature -- it preserves the page history at the new location.

Thanks, BCorr | Брайен 20:57, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

Nonviolence and Wikipedia
Hi,

Thanks for your message. Yes, I created some articles on non-violence, Lanza del Vasto and Larzac among others. Nice to known that somebody is interested. That will motivate me to complete them. Yann 09:55, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ecoterrorists
(William M. Connolley 19:18, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)) I've always been jealous of Ed Poors collection of epithets - now I can start my own!

Regarding Golden age of arcade games vandal
Please join me in discussing him at User talk:212.219.189.68. -- user:zanimum

AfD nomination of List of nonviolence scholars and leaders
I have nominated List of nonviolence scholars and leaders, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/List of nonviolence scholars and leaders. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Mr.  Z- man  06:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:Civil disobedience rally at Hazelwood September 2009.jpg
File:Civil disobedience rally at Hazelwood September 2009.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Civil disobedience rally at Hazelwood September 2009.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case:. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 07:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Brian Martin (professor)
I have nominated Brian Martin (professor), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Brian Martin (professor). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 19:38, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Dirtbiscuit


text:
Bryant Gumbel

Bryant Charles Gumbel (born September 29, 1948) is an American television journalist and sportscaster, best known for his 15 years as co-host of NBC's Today. He is the younger brother of sportscaster Greg Gumbel. From 1995 to 2023, he hosted HBO's acclaimed investigative series Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, which has been rated as "flat out TV's best sports program" by the Los Angeles Times. It won a Peabody Award in 2012.

Gumbel was hired by NBC Sports in the fall of 1975 as co-host of its National Football League pre-game show GrandStand with Jack Buck. From 1975 until January 1982 (when he left to do The Today Show), he hosted numerous sporting events for NBC including Major League Baseball, college basketball and the National Football League. He returned to sportscasting for NBC when he hosted the prime time coverage of the 1988 Summer Olympics from Seoul and the PGA Tour in 1990.

NBC News made Gumbel the principal anchor of Today beginning September 27, 1982, and broadcast from Vietnam, Vatican City, Europe, South America, and much of the United States between 1984 and 1989. Gumbel's work on Today earned him several Emmys and a large fanbase. He is the third longest serving co-host of Today, after former hosts Matt Lauer and Katie Couric. He stepped down from the show on January 3, 1997, after 15 years.

Gumbel moved to CBS, where he hosted various shows before becoming co-host of the network's morning show The Early Show on November 1, 1999. Gumbel was hosting The Early Show on the morning of September 11, 2001. He was the first to announce the September 11 attacks to CBS viewers. Gumbel left CBS and The Early Show on May 17, 2002.

Early life and education
Gumbel was born in New Orleans. He is the son of Rhea Alice (née LeCesne), a city clerk, and Richard Dunbar Gumbel, a judge. His surname originates with his great-great-grandfather, who was a German-Jewish emigrant from the village of Albisheim. Raised Catholic, he attended and graduated from De La Salle Institute in Chicago, while growing up on the South Side of the city; his family had moved north when he was a child. He graduated from Bates College in 1970 with a degree in Russian history.

Career
In 1971, he became editor of Black Sports, leaving the following year. He began his television career in October 1972, when he was made a sportscaster for KNBC-TV in Los Angeles.

NBC Sports
Already a local evening news sports anchor for KNBC, in Los Angeles, Gumbel was hired by NBC Sports in the fall of 1975 as co-host of its National Football League pre-game show GrandStand with Jack Buck. From 1975 until January 1982 (when he left to do The Today Show), he hosted numerous sporting events for NBC including Major League Baseball, college basketball and the National Football League. He returned to sportscasting for NBC when he hosted the prime time coverage of the 1988 Summer Olympics from Seoul and the PGA Tour in 1990.

One of Gumbel's more memorable moments during his time at NBC Sports occurred when he was on-site for the "Epic in Miami" NFL playoff game between the San Diego Chargers and Miami Dolphins. At the end of the game, he told the viewers, "If you didn't like this football game then you don't like football!" This would be one of his final assignments for NBC Sports, as he began co-hosting Today two days later.

Today
Gumbel began his affiliation with Today as the program's chief sports reporter contributing twice-weekly features to the program, including a regular series entitled "Sportsman of the Week," featuring up-and-coming athletes. In June 1981, NBC announced that Tom Brokaw would depart Today to anchor the NBC Nightly News with Roger Mudd beginning in the spring of 1982. The search for Brokaw's replacement was on, and the initial candidates were all NBC News correspondents, including John Palmer, Chris Wallace, Bob Kur, Bob Jamieson, and Jessica Savitch. The candidates auditioned for Brokaw's job throughout the summer of 1981 when he was on vacation. Gumbel became a candidate for the job just by chance when he served as a last-minute substitute for Today co-anchor Jane Pauley in August 1981. He so impressed executive producer Steve Friedman and other NBC executives that he quickly became a top contender for the Today anchor position.

While Friedman and other NBC executives favored Gumbel as Brokaw's replacement, another contingent within the NBC News division felt strongly that he should be replaced by a fellow news correspondent, not a sports reporter. Wallace was the favored candidate of then-NBC News president Bill Small. NBC News decided to split the difference, selecting Gumbel as the program's anchor and Wallace as the Washington-based anchor. Pauley would remain co-anchor in New York. Brokaw signed off of Today on December 18, 1981, and Gumbel replaced him on January 4, 1982.

The Gumbel–Pauley–Wallace arrangement, known internally as the "Mod Squad", lasted only nine months. It was an arrangement that proved intriguing on paper but unwieldy on television. Gumbel served as the show's traffic cop, opening and closing the program and conducting New York–based interviews, but Pauley and Wallace handled newsreading duties, and Wallace conducted all Washington-based hard news interviews. With ABC's Good Morning America in first place and expanding its lead, NBC News made Gumbel the principal anchor of Today beginning September 27, 1982, with Pauley as his co-anchor. Wallace became the chief White House correspondent covering President Ronald Reagan, and John Palmer, previously a White House correspondent, became Today's New York–based news anchor.

Gumbel and Pauley had a challenging first two years together as Today anchors as they sought to find a rhythm as a team. Good Morning America solidified its lead over Today in the ratings during the summer of 1983, and Pauley's departure for maternity leave sent Today into a ratings tailspin. But when she returned in February 1984, they began to work well together as a team. NBC took Today on the road in the fall of '84, sending Gumbel to the Soviet Union for an unprecedented series of live broadcasts from Moscow. He won plaudits for his performance, erasing any doubts about his hard-news capabilities. That trip began a whirlwind period of travel for Today. Remote broadcasts from Vietnam, Vatican City, Europe, South America, and much of the United States followed between 1984 and 1989. Today began to regain its old ratings dominance against Good Morning America throughout 1985, and by early 1986, the NBC program was once again atop the ratings.

During this time, Gumbel had developed animosity toward David Letterman when the Late Night host disrupted taping of a Today primetime special in Rockefeller Center with a bullhorn. "If I had gotten to him, I would have hit him," Gumbel said of Letterman. The pair would reconcile a few years later.

In 1989, Gumbel, who was already known for his strong management style as Today anchor, wrote a memo to the executive producer Marty Ryan, on Ryan's request, critiquing the program and identifying its shortcomings. Many of his criticisms were directed at fellow Today staffers. It was leaked to the press. In the memo, Gumbel commented that Willard Scott "holds the show hostage to his assortment of whims, wishes, birthdays and bad taste ... this guy is killing us and no one's even trying to rein him in". He commented that Gene Shalit's movie reviews "are often late and his interviews aren't very good."

There was enough negative backlash in regard to Gumbel's comments toward Scott that he was shown making up with Scott on Today.

Following Pauley's departure from Today in December 1989, Gumbel was joined by Deborah Norville in a short-lived partnership that lasted just over a year. Today dropped to second place in the ratings during this period as a result of intensely negative publicity surrounding Norville's replacement of Pauley, and Gumbel's feud with Scott. Norville was replaced by Katie Couric in April 1991, and the Gumbel-Couric team helped refocus Today as the morning news program on public affairs during the 1992 presidential campaign. The program returned to first place in the ratings in December 1995.

Gumbel's work on Today earned him several Emmys and a large group of fans. He is the third longest serving co-host of Today, after Matt Lauer and Couric. He stepped down from the show on January 3, 1997, after 15 years.

Since his departure, Gumbel has made occasional appearances on Today. He appeared for the show's 60th anniversary and hosted with Lauer and Pauley on December 30, 2013.

Public Eye with Bryant Gumbel
After 15 years on Today, Gumbel moved to CBS to host a new prime time news-magazine called Public Eye with Bryant Gumbel during the 1997–1998 television season. The episode "The Reckoning" won a Peabody Award in 1998. It lasted just one season before being cancelled. It aired on Wednesday nights at 9pm ET before moving to Tuesdays at 9pm ET.

The Early Show
After leaving the Today and Dateline NBC in 1997, Gumbel moved to CBS, where he hosted various shows before becoming co-host of the network's morning show The Early Show on November 1, 1999. Gumbel left The Early Show (and CBS that same year) on May 17, 2002. Gumbel was hosting The Early Show on the morning of September 11, 2001. He was the first to announce the September 11 attacks to CBS viewers.

In the spring and summer of 2010, he served as a special guest moderator of ABC's The View for multiple days.

Boy Scouts incident
A CBS camera caught a disgusted Gumbel blurting out, "What a fucking idiot," just after he had finished a hostile interview with Robert Knight of the Family Research Council (FRC). The incident occurred at about 7:15 a.m. ET on Thursday, June 29, 2000, following Knight's appearance to defend the Boy Scout policy of excluding gays from being leaders. The Media Research Center reported that he uttered those words; Gumbel openly admitted to saying so when guest-hosting a June 2007 episode of Live with Regis and Kelly.

Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel
Gumbel has concentrated most of his energy recently on his duties as host of HBO's acclaimed investigative series Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel (a show that he has hosted since 1995). HBO's web page claims that Real Sports has been described as "flat out—TV's best sports program" by the Los Angeles Times. It won a Peabody Award in 2012.

Notable remarks
In February 2006, Gumbel made remarks seen as controversial regarding the Winter Olympics and the lack of Black athlete participation, while others considered it important sports journalism commentary.

"So try not to laugh when someone says these are the world's greatest athletes, despite a paucity of Blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention."

On the August 15, 2006, episode of Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, Gumbel made the following remarks about former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue and Players' Union president Gene Upshaw and directed these comments to new commissioner Roger Goodell:

"Before he cleans out his office, have Paul Tagliabue show you where he keeps Upshaw's leash. By making the docile head of the players' union his personal pet, your predecessor has kept the peace without giving players the kind of guarantees other pros take for granted. Try to make sure no one competent ever replaces Upshaw on your watch."

In response, Tagliabue said:

"What Gumbel said about Gene Upshaw and our owners is about as irresponsible as anything I've heard in a long time."

On the October 18, 2011, Gumbel evoked slavery in his criticism of NBA Commissioner David Stern over the league's lockout.

"His efforts are typical of a commissioner who has always seemed eager to be viewed as some kind of modern-day plantation overseer, treating (National Basketball Association) men as if they were his boys. ... His moves are intended to do little more than show how he's the one keeping the hired hands in their place."

In a Rolling Stone article dated January 20, 2015, Gumbel said: "There are a few things I hate more than the NRA. I mean truly. I think they're pigs. I think they don't care about human life. I think they are a curse upon the American landscape. So we got that on the record."

The Weather Man
Gumbel made a cameo appearance alongside Nicolas Cage and Michael Caine in The Weather Man, a film directed by Gore Verbinski. In it, he cohosts a morning show entitled Hello America, for which Cage's character, a depressed weatherman, auditions.

Seinfeld
Gumbel made a cameo appearance on the NBC sitcom Seinfeld during which he interviewed Jerry Seinfeld on Today while Jerry was wearing the puffy pirate shirt in the episode "The Puffy Shirt".

The Nanny
Gumbel made a cameo appearance on the sitcom The Nanny during which he gives Fran Fine an audition for a job in television in the episode "Fair Weather Fran".

NFL Network
In April 2006, NFL Network announced that Gumbel, along with Cris Collinsworth and Dick Vermeil, would comment on its new package of NFL games. Unlike his brother Greg, he had never called play-by-play for live sporting events in his career. Before his first game commentary for the network, his status was brought into question after he stirred up controversy in his closing remarks on his HBO program on August 15, 2006, in which he criticized NFL Players Association head Gene Upshaw and outgoing NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. He would later reconcile with the NFL and retained his play-by-play job with the NFL Network. On December 29, 2007, he had a reunion of sorts as he called the Patriots-Giants game on the NFL Network, CBS, and NBC. This is the first three-network simulcast NFL game and, coincidentally, he has worked for all three networks during his career. He also had a strong affiliation with NFL Films.

Gumbel's performance was the subject of criticism over his entire run because of his voice and a perceived lack of knowledge about the game. Gumbel stepped down as play-by-play announcer in April 2008, prior to the 2008 NFL season. He would be replaced on the NFL Network telecasts by Bob Papa.

Brain Surgery Live
In 2015, Gumbel hosted the first ever live televised brain surgery during a 2-hour National Geographic special. The two-hour event, titled Brain Surgery Live with Mental Floss, gave viewers an up-close look at an awake deep brain stimulation surgery. Filming took place via two handheld cameras as well as several robotic cameras with inputs directly in the doctors’ surgical equipment, allowing viewers to see live images as the brain was being operated on in real time.

Personal life
Gumbel raised two children with his wife, June, in Waccabuc, north of New York City. In 2001, he divorced her to marry Hilary Quinlan. Around 2002, he shed 55 pounds of weight in seven months. In October 2009, he had surgery to remove a malignant tumor near one of his lungs.

Awards

 * 4 Emmy Awards
 * Frederick D. Patterson Award from the United Negro College Fund
 * Martin Luther King Award from the Congress of Racial Equality
 * Three NAACP Image Awards, including the President's Award
 * Edward R. Murrow Award for Outstanding Foreign Affairs work from the Overseas Press Club, September 1984
 * Edward Weintal Prize for diplomatic reporting
 * Peabody Award for his reporting in Vietnam
 * International Journalism Award from TransAfrica
 * Africa's Future Award from the U.S. Committee for UNICEF
 * Leadership Award from the African-American Institute
 * Best Morning TV News Interviewer, the Washington Journalism Review, 1986
 * National Association of Black Journalists, Journalist of the Year Award, 1993
 * Trumpet Award of the Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.
 * Alfred I. duPont-Columbia University Award for outstanding broadcast journalism for Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel (HBO), December 2005

title: Bryant Gumbel


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Talk:Dunkirk evacuation

Infobox "result"
Editors of this article may wish to know that that the way the parameter "result" has been completed in the infobox for this article ("Allied retreat") has been mentioned in Template talk:Infobox military conflict.

For the record, I entirely support the way the result is portrayed in the infobox in this article - however it appears to me that this does not fit the rules for the infobox template.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Watch WWII road to victory
Watch WWII road to victory 2603:6000:DE00:9B:68DE:3C2E:4434:F423 (talk) 05:42, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comment, but why? At the top of the page you will see it says This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dunkirk evacuation article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. so I am wondering if this is a suggestion for improvement and if so how it works, please? Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

What can be considered as logistics failures as depicted in the film?What should have been done
None 49.150.185.122 (talk) 01:11, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Churchill
The article fails to note, as people always do fail to note, that, immediately after telling the House that 'Wars are not won by evacuations,' Churchill added, 'But there was a victory inside this deliverance, which should be noted. It was gained by the Air Force. Many of our soldiers coming back have not seen the Air Force at work; they saw only the bombers that escaped its protective attack. They underrate its achievements. I have heard much talk of this; that is why I go out of my way to say this. I will tell you about it.' https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/collections/churchillexhibition/churchill-the-orator/fight-on-the-beaches/ Most of the facts and figures he went on to give are now known to be wrong, but he was correct on the whole. The Luftwaffe attempted to interdict the evacuation and failed. It was also the first time that the Germans encountered Spitfires (previously held in reserve), which they clearly did not like much. Churchill remarked, 'The great French Army was very largely, for the time being, cast back and disturbed by the onrush of a few thousands of armoured vehicles. May it not also be that the cause of civilisation itself will be defended by the skill and devotion of a few thousand airmen?' In the next few months, this proved prophetic, leading to his speech on 'The Few' on 20 August. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:18, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dunkirk evacuation


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Heinz Kluncker

Heinz Kluncker (February 20, 1925 (Wuppertal) – April 21, 2005 (Stuttgart)) was president of the German trade union ÖTV (Öffentliche Dienste, Transport und Verkehr Public service, transport and traffic) from 1964 to 1982.

Kluncker was conscripted into the German Army in 1943. In 1944 he deserted in France and became prisoner of war. He returned to Germany in 1946.

He was a member of the SPD (Sozialdemokratischen Partei Deutschlands Social-democratic party of Germany) since 1946.

title: Heinz Kluncker


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Edward, Prince of Wales

Edward, Prince of Wales may refer to:

 * Edward II of England, Prince of Wales 1301–1307
 * Edward, the Black Prince, Prince of Wales 1343–1376
 * Edward of Westminster, Prince of Wales 1453–1471
 * Edward V of England, Prince of Wales 1471–1483
 * Edward of Middleham, Prince of Wales 1483–1484
 * Edward VI of England, Prince of Wales 1537–1547
 * Edward VII, Prince of Wales 1841–1901
 * Edward VIII, Prince of Wales 1910–1936

All but Edward II were also Duke of Cornwall. Both Edward VII and Edward VIII were also Duke of Rothesay.

title: Edward, Prince of Wales


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Bob Cole (composer)

Robert Allen Cole Jr. (July 1, 1868 – August 2, 1911 ) was an American composer, actor, and playwright who produced and directed stage shows. In collaboration with Billy Johnson, he wrote and produced A Trip to Coontown (1898), the first musical entirely created and owned by black showmen. The popular song La Hoola Boola (1898) was a result of their collaboration. Cole later partnered with brothers J. Rosamond Johnson, a pianist and singer, and James Weldon Johnson, a pianist, guitarist and lawyer, creating more than 200 songs.

Their vaudeville act featured classical piano pieces and their musicals featured sophisticated lyrics without the usual stereotypes such as "hot-mamas" and watermelons. Success enabled Cole and Rosamond to tour America and Europe with their act. The trio's most popular songs were "Louisiana Lize" and "Under the Bamboo Tree" (1901?). Their more successful musicals were The Shoo-Fly Regiment (1906) and The Red Moon (1908, written without Weldon).

Cole was the preeminent leader in the world of black musical theater both as a composer and as a performer. His skills in acting, writing, and directing were brought to the public eye through his early works: first, he produced the black musical “A Trip to Coontown”, where he joined alliance with Billy Johnson, followed by the production of popular songs such as “ Under the Bamboo Tree,” where he worked with J. Rosamond Johnson. Cole committed suicide by drowning himself in a creek in the Catskills in 1911 after a nervous breakdown and period of clinical depression that worsened in 1910.

Family and early life
As stated in Thomas L. Riis’ “‘Bob’ Cole: His Life and His Legacy to Black Musical Theater,” few details of Cole's life before the transition into the development of black musicals can be found in research materials, including encyclopedias and historical articles on black theater.

The composer was born in Athens, Georgia, where his father (Robert Allen Cole, Sr.) and mother (Isabella Thomas Weldon) settled after the freedom of blacks through the Emancipation Proclamation. Although Athens, Georgia, was shattered by the war in the South and the racist environment of Southern society at the time, it became a prosperous city with prominent African American families; barbers, blacksmiths, shoemakers, and other sorts of community professionals were black. The people of Athens developed one of the earliest black newspapers, indicating the advancement and progression in education of blacks in the late 19th century. Cole's father took advantage of the opportunities provided in Athens, Georgia, and became well known through his political activism during the Reconstruction era of the South. Robert Cole's political role may have influenced his son's beliefs, especially in regards to the conditions of the African American race. During his involvement in politics, from 1867 to 1873, Robert Cole became a part of the black Athenians and assisted the Georgia State Legislature. In the end, Bob Cole's father, with his political side in the background, became a carpenter, supporting his family and his house on Broad Street.

Childhood years and adulthood
Bob Cole, born on July 1, 1868, was the first-born of his family, followed by five other siblings, including Dora Cole Norman. His family was musical; both his parents were square dancers (Robert Cole, Sr., also played drums) and all the children of the household were educated in certain musical instruments. Bob played various instruments, such as the banjo, piano and cello, and created his own family band with the support of his sisters. At fifteen years of age, Bob had a violent confrontation with the son of the mayor of Athens, and had to flee the town to live with distant relatives, of his mother's side, in Florida. A short time later, Bob was reunited with his family after they moved to Atlanta, Georgia. In Atlanta, Bob was able to attend elementary school and possibly high school; however, he did not proceed towards higher education. Instead of enrolling in a college, Bob found a job at the Atlanta University, which became his approximation of the student experience – from the interview from his sister, he was able to gain a vast amount of knowledge due to his knowledge-packed environment.

Early short-term careers in music
Still focused on the music world and following his musical inclinations, Cole moved to Florida, where he was able to be involved in a small string quartet for a short period of time. Later, he worked at a resort in Asbury Park, New Jersey, as a “singing bellboy”. He later moved to Chicago where he became a comedian of a sort – he told jokes, sung, and played the guitar in various clubs throughout the city. His interest towards vaudeville plays and the later black musical genre (including “coon songs”) originated from his work with his peer Lew Henry, who was also an amateur showman. These two young actors attempted to create a vaudeville act together; however, the act was not a success and soon ended. After his failed attempt in the field of vaudeville acting, Cole traveled to New York, preeminent area for novice actors in pursuit of theater or anything related to the theatrical genres, and formed an alliance with Pete Staples, who was well known in his performance as a mandolinist. Cole became Staples’ comedic counterpart in their act together, but their collaboration ended shortly after it began. Due to the lack of information on the details of Bob Cole's experience in acting and music, including his early training, there were no solid facts of how Cole came to be the leading black composer and entrepreneur in black musicals. Although Cole seemed to be focused on the comedic and buffoonish aspect of African-American theater and acting, he did not submit to the norm of being involved in so-called “medicine shows” or the circus, unlike his predecessors. Rather than being confined to the traditional use of blackface makeup of early black minstrel shows, he denied the degrading use of such material and deviated from the conventional African American entertainment; thus, he began producing his own entertainment through either a partnership or just being solo.

Gradual rise to stardom - The Creole Show
Coming from a small black family and gradually gaining popularity in the public eye, Cole began rising in the field of black musicals. A few years after, around the early 1890s, with the support of the Chicago firm of Will Rossitier, Bob Cole presented his two legally published songs: “Parthenia Took a Likin’ to a Coon” and “In Shin Bone Alley.” The titles give the general idea and tone of the songs – Cole incorporated his comedic nature and produced a minstrel-like tone to his songs. His rising soon allowed further opportunities to flow in; for instance, he was soon hired as a comedian by the white entrepreneur, Sam T. Jack, who created the Creole Show. The Creole Show, in short, focused on black women performers, which was extremely rare during the time; furthermore, in its movement towards breaking the norm, the show shattered the use of black stereotypes in typical minstrel shows, which included denying the usual plot setting at a slave plantation. By moving away from traditional minstrel shows, Sam T. Jack's production was predominantly influenced by the styles of vaudeville (with more focus on the beauty and exotic aspects of showgirls), reviving the cakewalk and adding fancy steps. Cole's role in the Creole Show soon gained popularity and he went from an ordinary comedian act to the headliner of the show. His success in the Creole Show, indicated by his popularity amongst his audience that resulted in a promotion, led him to create his own stage character, which he would carry on for another seven years: Willy Wayside, the red-whiskered hobo.

By 1896, as his fame progressed, Cole produced four “Genuine Negro songs by a Genuine Negro Minstrel” that were published by Brooks and Denton of New York and London. These four songs were: “Fly, fly, fly,” “Move up, Johnson,” “Colored aristocracy,” and “Dem golden clouds.” Cole's popularity and stardom began to accelerate through his involvement in top productions, such as “Black America.” Soon, he was promoted and became a writer and stage manager for the Creole Show. By the early 1890s, he was partnered professionally with his future wife, Stella Wiley, a dancer from the Creole Show. His partnership led him to performances from New England to New York. Around 1894, he formed the All-Star Stock Company – a project that allowed him to train a professional group of actors, comedians and singers. The first production by this group was called Georgia 49, which included John Isham. There was no description or synopsis of the actual show for future reference.

Black Patti's Troubadours: from fame to unemployment
Later, Cole became an important player in the first shows by Black Patti’s Troubadours in 1896. Black Patti Troubadours was an American vaudeville group founded by Sissieretta Jones’ (“The Black Patti”); their performances consisted of blackface minstrel songs and “coon songs,” also featuring acrobats and comedians. Cole's association with this group allowed him to become involved with the Isham shows through the two groups' coalition – the partnered shows predominantly consisted of comedy sketches, vaudeville specialty acts (i.e. jugglers, singers, and comedians), and ending with a variety of opera-like singers.

Cole also managed his own Troubadour show in which he starred as Willy Wayside (in this case, his character was the tramp) in the musical At Jolly Coon-ey Island and performed a routine with Stella Wiley. The musical incorporated two of his own songs: "4-11-44" and "The Four Hundred's Ball", and music arrangements by its music director J. A. Raynes. Although Cole became the top performer amongst his peers, his significant contributions to the Troubadours did not result in higher pay, and he left the company, taking away his own written scripts and songs. Denounced as a thief and troublemaker by the company's white managers, Voelckel and Nolan, his reputation was damaged, and no production manager would hire him. Cole was forced to publish songs under a pseudonym – he used the name Will Handy for his later works after his own name was tainted.

A Trip to Coontown
Cole soon established his own black production company with the group of individuals who also left the Troubadours. Out of that, he, with Billy Johnson and Will Accooe, in 1898, co-wrote the lyrics and music for A Trip to Coontown, which, was the lengthier version of the musical programs he previously written. The production became the supposed first black musical comedy. The musical, consisting of only black actors and revolving around the traditional minstrel stereotypes, delved into the story of a con artist, Jimmy Flimflammer, and his failed attempts to rob an elderly man of his pension. Furthermore, in order to maintain the interest of the audience, the play also included variety, or comedic, acts to liven the show.

Individuals can argue, as stated in Eileen Southern's The Origin and Development of the Black Musical Theater: A Preliminary Report, that A Trip to Coontown was not the first black-dominated musical play produced at the time. Because black musicals were originated from several genres of stage entertainment – the ballad opera, the music extravaganza, the comic opera, the minstrel show, and the variety show – there is a plausible argument that previous nineteenth-century black companies created such theatrical plays, and A Trip to Coontown was not the first black musical performed.

The show premiered in South Amboy, New Jersey, on September 27, 1897. The show went through a trial of shut-downs and controversy, where it was banned from showing in the United States; however, the play later gained popularity in Canadian theaters, and subsequently was revived and shown in New York. Theater-promoters Klaw and Erlanger terminated Cole's ban from the theater world and helped bring the show to the public. However, although Cole's previous scorned image was extinguished with the help of Klaw and Erlanger, Black Patti's Troubadours still attempted to ruin his career by directly competing with his own production company. The Troubadours planned their shows to be consistent with Cole's presentation of A Trip to Coontown, attempting to steal the spotlight. However, there were few evidence that proved that Cole and Johnson discovered the unscrupulous ruse of their competitors and avoided the confrontation altogether by destroying their booking contract with Michael Levitt. Although Cole was able to avoid the Troubadours’ schemes, in the end, he was not able to avoid the lawsuit against his company from Levitt, who fined Cole and Johnson $1000. Cole's company faced several trials, including quarrels over finances and transportation; also, the competition of the Black Patti organization was a constant battle. Cole's group succeeded through Bob Cole's skills in management and his inventiveness in black show business. By 1900, A Trip to Coontown finally stopped its production, and the partnership between Cole and Billy Johnson ended due to either Johnson's alcoholic nature, or Cole's changing ideals in black musicals – he desired to test out another path in vaudeville plays and songwriting

Union with the Johnson Brothers: a turn in Black entertainment

In 1899, Cole met two brothers from Jacksonville, Florida. who paved the path of the rest of his career in show business: his partnership with James Weldon and J. Rosamond Johnson, especially J. R. Johnson, lasted until his retirement in 1911. As Thomas L. Riis claimed, Cole's “association with the Johnson brothers indicated that Cole was turning away from coon-song composition” (140). There was little evidence as to the reason behind Cole's drastic shift from traditional “coon songs”; one possible reason was that Cole wanted to draw the elite audience into his plays. He averted from his normal Willy Wayward persona and adopted a more dignified and respectable character. It is possible that his transition was influenced by his partners, who both held college degrees, and his own political notions at the time. As a result, the cooperation of the two (Cole and Johnson) led to the creation of high-class vaudeville acts that incorporated elegance and sophistication, all of which were executed in evening dresses.

One can perceive that Cole was engaged in the political and societal issues of the time, indicated by his image-altering transition into creating shows for the elite. Furthermore, his interest in black politics was revealed from his scrapbook, which was not bursting with newspaper clippings of his own success in black show business, but rather, it consisted mainly of clippings from the Waller Affair. The Waller Affair involved the imprisonment of John L. Waller as a consequence of political confrontations between Madagascar and France, in which French imperialists who claimed to protect Madagascar did not support black developers. The French court-martial accused Waller of leaking information to the enemy (Madagascar) during the war, and sentenced Waller to twenty years imprisonment. Cole identified with Waller; they were both activists who protested against African-American inequities and believed in aiding their own kin. Although exteriorly, Cole appeared to be a carefree showman whose only purpose was to be famous in black minstrelsy and vaudeville plays, he organized his shows very meticulously and placed much thought in every detail and aspect of his productions. For example, he considered the exact timing of his songs, including the right execution of each part of the performance.

Several of the songs composed by the adjoining Cole-Johnson team were incorporated into larger shows by Klaw and Erlanger. Klaw and Erlanger's shows appealed the white audiences, allowing the black composers’ songs to be known throughout the white community. Furthermore, focusing on the sophistication of the songs in comparison to earlier works, the lyrics avoided the stereotypical descriptions of the aggressive black man; instead, the lyrics provided a sentimental, romantic, and even melancholic atmosphere. Also, deviating from the traditional “coon songs,” the humor in Cole and Johnson's works were more humane – they did not include the usual racial commentaries and African-American stereotyping. In general, their shows were more sophisticated and focused primarily on grasping the interests of the elite class. The success of their songs originated from the talents of both respective partners: Rosamond Johnson bore the advanced musical training and keyboard skills, whereas Cole bore the innovative talents in writing new pieces. It could be said that their partnership altered the path of black entertainment and subsequently moved the audience's interests towards a more refined type of black music. Not only did Cole and Johnson change the audience's taste in black music, they also attempted to educate the public through their songs and tried to prevent the regression towards the degrading “coon songs.”

View on 20th-century Black entertainment and contributions
By 1902, Cole gained ultimate financial success, and wrote the article The Negro and the Stage for In it, he revealed his concerns toward the crippling image placed on African-American performers; for instance, he criticized the use of the African-American villains in black entertainment, for it demeaned African Americans and fueled the racist stereotype of the violent black man. He also denounced adaptations of Uncle Tom's Cabin that used African-American stereotypes.

Although he criticized the conventional use of the aggressive black man in most black entertainment of the day, arguing that it enforced a disreputable image on the black actors themselves, he ended the article by envisioning a bright future for black performers, where stereotyping and racism would be nullified, and African Americans would revolutionize the entertainment world.

Cole was a revolutionary figure who contributed to the movement in eliminating the degrading, social characterizations of the black performer, thus, forcing the path of black entertainment towards a more respectable and dignified future.

title: Bob Cole (composer)


text:
User talk:Tsca

''' INTERWIKI QUESTION? Please see the Interwiki Bot FAQ by Yurik.'''

.ogg
Na razie nie widzę tam żadnych zamówień. Jeśli się jakieś pojawią - daj mi znać (chyba że już są, a ja ich zwyczajnie nie widzę). Co do Zielonej Góry - zaiste, zgrało mi kilka ścieżek na raz. Juz poprawiłem, dzięki za czujność. Halibutt 23:43, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)

Wiki słownik logo
I like Image:Tsca_wiktionary_logo2.png for Wiki słownik. Nice design. —Tkinias 10:33, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image:Margrethe II.PNG
Tsca, thanks for clarifying the delete classification for this image. In the future, you may consider using Template:db, which you could use in the following format:. Cheers. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 02:04, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

interwikies
Please explain your comment on my talk page. (Pls sign your name). Thanks! --Yurik 13:25, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Bot-generated articles
Hi there! Some time ago at Wikiproject Geography of Poland someone proposed to create a large number of bot-generated articles on Polish powiats and communes and Ausir advised me to contact you over this issue. Do you know how to do it? Halibutt 17:34, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Babel
Could you consider adding this template to your userpage? It is very helpful in case translators are needed and such.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:38, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm hardly active on en:, so the template would be misleading, if anything. Thanks for the suggestion, though. / tsca ✉ 20:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

respirator
I'm in the process of rewriting the English respirator article. A respirator is a device that protects the wearer from poisonous or toxic dusts, mists, gases, or vapors - another term for this device is gas mask. A mechanical ventilator is the device that breathes for a hospital patient. A person on artificial life support is on a ventilator, not a respirator.

Unfortunately, English-speaking newspaper and television reporters seem to think the two words are interchangeable, and several months ago a well-meaning editor created the 'respirator' entry incorrectly with content about ventilators. Since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it's important that the correct terms be used for the correct devices. I'm currently trying to merge the gas mask article into the respirator article, and I've had the 'under construction' template at the top of the entry for a few weeks.

Tsca.bot is automagically linking the Danish, Polish, Swedish, German, and Norwegian entries for 'respirator' to the English 'respirator' page, but the bot should be linking those entries to the English mechanical ventilator entry instead. I went through this same explanation with Flabot a few weeks ago, and that bot has honored my request, but tsca.bot is picking up right where Flabot left off. I don't speak these five languages (except for very basic German) but the photos and root words I recognize in those pages are clearly related to ventilators. English and these languages share a common word that does not have a common meaning, and the encyclopedia is suffering as a result of the various bots linking to like words instead of like meanings.

I've removed the 'in other languages' links, and I'd appreciate it if you could reprogram tsca.bot to tell it to stop linking the 'respirator' entries of other languages to the English respirator entry. If you want to link them to something, please begin linking them to the English mechanical ventilator entry instead. Thanks very much for your help. ddlamb 03:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Tsca! - ddlamb 02:35, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Grampians
Just letting you know that Grampians National Park in is Australia and Grampian Mountains is in Scotland, the bot added the link twice. - Diceman 13:34, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Such links need to be fixed manually, as they were manually introduced...

The Twelve Apostles/Disciples
Please be careful about hiding vandalism. Your bot "hid" vandalism on The Twelve Apostles/Disciples at April 25th 20:52 by replacing the interwiki when the external links had been removed by a vandal. Eli Falk 14:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The bot did no such thing :-) Please hide the bot edits from your watchlist and Recent Changes, and you'll be able to observe all manual edits. tsca @ 14:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not my watch llist which is the problem. I had no reason to watch that article - I just happened to be trying yesterday to find the right category for interwiki with a Hebrew Wikipedia category page, and I happenned to notice this vandalism yesterday for that reason. The fact that no one found it until then is probably because of your bot. Eli Falk 14:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Please get acquainted with the way Wikipedia works before making such statements and stop blaming others for sb else's vandalism. tsca @ 14:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:LOTR-IMG 2698.JPEG
(...) Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 14:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The source and licence information has been there since the moment the image was uploaded... tsca @ 20:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

This image along with Image:FZLOTRiTT-L ubt.jpeg has been listed at WP:IFD. Kotepho 19:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

WP:1.0
I see that you are from the Polish Wikipedia, and that you changed things a little bit on WP:1.0, so I have to presume that you are involved to a degree in the Polish static version project (and please forgive me if I'm wrong! :)) Sj, from the Static content subcommittee, has requested that the static version projects from the different Wikipedias meet on IRC to exchange ideas and collaborate, so what do you think? Could you ask the active static versioning members in plwiki, so we could arrange a meeting sometime soon? Tito xd (?!?) 19:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's actually a separate one, although it would be nice if these issues were also discussed in the SPC meeting announced on meta as well. Tito xd (?!?) 15:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Hopefully, we'll be able to make that decision soon. Tito xd (?!?) 15:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

doc page pattern
Hi Tsca. Re: your bot edit to Template:Infobox Disease: This template uses the template doc page pattern. The interwikis should go to the Template:Infobox Disease/doc in this case (I've fixed it there). Could you tweak your bot to adapt for the template doc page pattern? --Ligulem 20:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Problem solved. Got your email ("... someone manually linked this template with a regular article (!), see http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pinta_%28choroba%29&diff=next&oldid=3042688 and the bot followed that"). Cheers! --Ligulem 22:18, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Your bot is doing the same error again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_Disease&diff=76850031&oldid=76845226 Please have a deeper look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_doc_page_pattern. Interwikis shouldn't be added to the template page on templates that use that pattern. --Ligulem 11:00, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for your bot
Not sure if your bot is capable of doing this, but there's only one way to find out! By consensus Brabham Racing Organisation was recently moved to Brabham. This left over 200 pages pointing to the original article and redirecting to the new article. Could your bot possibly go through these pages and update the Wikilinks to Brabham? If not do you know of a bot that can? Thanks, Alexj2002 19:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. / tsca @ 02:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for doing that (and thanks Alex for putting the request in) 4u1e 06:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Just to second, thanks for that - saved a lot of work doing it manually. Alexj2002 18:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Category:YYYY computer and video games interwikis
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French towns
Hello. I noticed that you tsca bot created all the articles on French towns on the Polish Wikipedia. Could you do the same here? I really don't know much about bos and source codes and whatever. It would be very appreciated. Editorofthewiki (talk) 01:29, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

National speedway teams
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This will assist those reviewing the many many "free" images on commons that have not yet been transfered to Commons. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 08:43, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tsca