text:
Talk:Politics of Venezuela

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kaylaself11.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Next election
It says here that the next election will be held in May 2010... this is obviously outdated, but I don't have the correct information. Someone should fix it. Etaoin 21:15, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Cannot wait Loveisbright (talk) 14:47, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Originator?
The information this page contains is perfect for a paper I am writing for a class. The problem is that I do not know who originated the information. Can anyone please point me to specific internet sources that verify the information on this page for a student essay style bibliography? Thanks, BR

CIA fact book - but probably edited by us. Secretlondon 21:16, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Odd word
Pluriform is not a word. At least not recognized by dictionary.com

I had no idea Loveisbright (talk) 14:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Update needed
Hello. (next to be held 28 May 2000 under new constitution) 'next to be' should be removed.--Youssef 19:02, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Requested move
I would like to suggest copying in part or moving the article to Government of Venezuela. What I see on similar pages, is that the Government page deals with the administration, function, authority, organization, and the system of the governing body. While Politics deals more with the activities, affairs, methods, tactics, engaged in or managed by the government. In other words, the Government page should deal with the structure of the bureaucracy, while the politics page can discuss the heated political climate in Venezuela. what do others think? - Spaceriqui 20:23, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Voting

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~

Support : for the above reason Spaceriqui 02:26, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Support : for the above reason LuiKhuntek 04:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Support : for the above reason Ashwoods 23:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Oppose: There is a Politics of page for every country and it is not only about government. It's also about the legislature and about the opposition. Please add what you miss on politics. Electionworld 18:31, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * This is definitely true, there is a politics page for every country. But there is also a Government page for every country, which is not the case of the SA countries.  So, this leads to a mix of heated political debate in what should be strictly a page dealing with the structure of the gov't. -Spaceriqui 19:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

!!Move request has been withdrawn. Needs to be reconsidered. Spaceriqui 21:58, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I went to the Venezuela article and then here to look for information about the Seniat, the Venezuelan tax agency. Please consider creating a separate Government of Venezuela article for the reasons given by Spaceriqui, especially if that is a standard. --Rj 16:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Comment: There is a "politics of" page for every country in the world - those for South America are listed in the template at the bottom of the article. There is a similar one for "Government of" articles - these are often, but not always, redirects to the politics articles - see the template below. Personally I prefer keeping these separate, with "Governement" focussed on the civil service, ministries etc and politics focussed on elections, political parties etc. AndrewRT(Talk) 22:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

==Discu

informacion porfavor
What is the exact percentage of seats elected in districts to those elected proportionally?--M i c 06:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

 * 60% district, 40% proportionally "Sistema Electoral/ Sistema de Elección: Los Diputados a la Asamblea Nacional fueron electos bajo un sistema de elección denominado de Representación Proporcional Personalizada (Sistema Electoral Combinado: 60 % Mayoritario - Nominal y 40 % Representación Proporcional - Lista). (Artículo 15 del Estatuto Electoral del Poder Público 2000)". JRSP 11:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Material removed from Code Pink article
We recently removed material from Code Pink after determining that said material was off-topic as far as Code Pink was concerned. An editor identified the material as being more appropriate on this article. If you're interested, here's the diff where we removed it:. SchuminWeb (Talk) 11:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Alejandro Suáre
Is Alejandro Suáre the Venezuelan election candidate really Alejandro Suáre the Mexican long distance runner?

If not, the hyperlinks from this page, and from the Elections in Venezuela page, need amending! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.11.121 (talk) 15:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Venezuelan constitution forbids people with multiple nationality to run for President so they can't be the same person. I delinked all minor candidates, I don't think they're notable enough for having their own article. JRSP (talk) 18:11, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Confusion between Government and politics
About half this article belongs in a "Government of Venezuela" article. I concede that there is some overlap, but how the constitution and statutes say that the government is supposed to be run is definitely "Government." Who has what duties: legislative, executive and judicial. Politics involves political parties.Student7 (talk) 02:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * "Government" is how children are taught that the country is (should be) run. No names. Quite dull. "Politics" is how the country is actually run! Names. Lots of action! Student7 (talk) 12:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I've degutted the article, removing "Government." It now needs to be restructured to show the messiness of Politics. "Citizens" is now a stranded section. It's just all structured wrong. The current sections have nothing to do with the article anymore. Student7 (talk) 12:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Elections of 2008
An editor keeps censoring the fact that the government would not let every eligible candidate run in the election of 2008. This is a true statement and important.

An editor keeps censoring the fact that the candidates took their issue to the Supreme Court. This happened, It is true and important. It is true and important that the court agreed with Chavez.

An editor keeps censoring the fact that the Washington Post, in an editorial, denounced the election since popular candidates were not allowed to run. The government has learned to model elections after Iran and other totalitarian states who routinely suppress the opposition for fear that the people would support them. This opinion did not originate with the Washington Post editor BTW. It is widely held outside Venezuela.

Please stop censoring it! 23:50, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

 * First of all, the government in Venezuela has several branches, I see no problem in being specific about what branch of government banned the candidates and why they did it. An opinion article in the Post is just an opinion: Who says that? Is his/her opinion relevant? Your comment that "The government has learned to model elections after Iran" is WP:POV. JRSP (talk) 00:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Was my opinion in the article? A quote was.

 * Are you saying that there is no impediment for any government to blackball candidates it doesn't like under the OAS? As far as being expelled from any international organization goes, this doesn't happen unless they are fairly blatant in their action. Was Cambodia every banned from the UN after executing half its population? I'll bet not. Nor can I think of many or any bans from the OAS thought there have been planty of violations. Student7 (talk) 00:30, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * An editorial in the Washington Post only proves that someone thinks the Inter-American Democratic Charter was violated, however it is OAS and not the Post that must decide that. The UN does not have anything similar to the Inter-American Democratic Charter so the Cambodia example does not apply here. According to the Inter-American Democratic Charter any OAS member that violates the charter is suspended from OAS and Venezuela has not been suspended. The 300 people were banned from public office because of irregularities in their function as public servers, most of them were not running as candidates. JRSP (talk) 00:46, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * As in most controversial articles, the phrase read that "critics said that..." In this case, only one critic, the Washington Post was quoted. And they are left-wing. It would not be hard to come up with more WP:NPOV critics.

 * Does the OAS charter say that candidates cannot be suspended without a conviction or does it not say that?

 * Were many (most?) of the 300 candidates convicted?

 * As far as "multiple branches" go, we are all familiar with that ploy. Ancient Rome's government was horribly complicated. Real democracies have learned to "keep it simple" but have a balance. All real democracies have three co-equal branches. Iran does not. Venezuela does not. Doubtless, the other tyrants of the world have long since followed suit. And some WP:RELY authority must have commented on that BTW. Student7 (talk) 12:21, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * The Inter-American Democratic Charter does not say that. IMO, your concept of "real democracy" reflects local bias and therefore POV; for instance, in parliamentary democracies the executive is not co-equal with legislative. I could also say, for instance, that a country where the people cannot elect directly their Chief of State is not a "real democracy" and I could find lots of WP:RS editorials supporting that claim. JRSP (talk) 13:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Important notice
The government section of the "Outline of Venezuela" needs to be checked, corrected, and completed -- especially the subsections for the government branches.

When the country outlines were created, temporary data (that matched most of the countries but not all) was used to speed up the process. Those countries for which the temporary data does not match must be replaced with the correct information.

Please check that this country's outline is not in error.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact The Transhumanist.

Thank you.

About political conditions
An article about politics cannot be only about the elections. Politics is more than that and includes the political life outside elections. The fights on the other fronts, like freedom of the press, fighting opponents with the justice system etc. are part of the political fight. All these fights have their place in an article about politics. Look for example at politics of Georgia (country). The comparison seems to me appropriate because Georgia, like Venezuela, is a country where you have elections but the political life is marked by strong fights outside elections. This is why I propose to have a paragraph named "political conditions", like in the Georgia article. Voui (talk) 20:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

 * "An article about politics cannot be only about the elections." - quite true, and in fact the bare listing of election results is pretty worthless, they should really be left somewhere else and summarised in prose as part of a discussion of the, well politics ("politics" does not equal "elections"). And indeed in the many "Politics of..." articles there are a few which have sections titled "Political conditions"(search). But the vast majority don't. Anyway, the section in Politics of Gabon is a much better example of the sort of content (whatever the section is called) which should be added, and which is much more common in "Politics of..." articles: a summary of the political history. For instance some discussion of Venezuela being an "exceptional case" in Latin America for its long-lived democracy (and then the subsequent re-evaluation of that when the partyarchy crumbled). (In fact I've written some content on that today in my userspace draft.) And of course there's much to be said on the nature of the political reconfiguration since 1998, the (changing) relationship between the grassroots social organisations and the Chavista movement and the new socialist party, etc.
 * But my concern is (and your most recent edit encourages that concern) that you want to duplicate very similar content as you want to have in Human rights in Venezuela. Duplication aside, that content is even more inappropriate here; you need to "zoom out" even further, as it were, and relate those general concerns to the politics, at a very general level. I would find that hard to do; and you've shown no interest in even trying - you're happy to have the small details ("examples") from primary sources, rather than the big picture from secondary ones. That's even less appropriate in this article. Rd232 talk 20:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * By all means, in other words, seek to develop your interests: but do so with reference to high quality, independent, secondary sources which are very general. Think, say, "football", not "one player's 2009 knee injury". Rd232 talk 20:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said earlier, these are only reasons not to allow mentioning things that you don't like about Venezuela political system. Please put that aside and accept to mention everything that is notable, even what you don't like.Voui (talk) 21:23, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

This is duplicating the same issues that we're discussing at Human rights in Venezuela. I really don't see how this is helpful, either in terms of duplicating the content, or in terms of duplicating the effort of discussion. I've left a note at WikiProject Politics asking for input; we can also pursue other dispute resolution (since you don't seem interested in addressing my arguments, preferring to accuse me of bad faith). However the content should stay out in the mean time, because it really doesn't belong here. As to the dispute resolution - because of the duplication of the discussion elsewhere, I'd hold off on that too in favour of a more general discussion of how to take the article forward; but if you really want, propose a draft text for an WP:RFC. PS I've added a couple of see alsos, including Human rights in Venezuela. Rd232 talk 12:58, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

First, you are misrepresenting facts. I did not accuse you of bad faith. I mentioned that we wish to delete more or less anything that is against the Chavez government. This is only a fact and you are proving it again. You have always technical arguments. They are always different, but they always lead to the same result: deleting and reverting. Voui (talk) 15:35, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "these are only reasons not to allow mentioning things that you don't like about Venezuela political system." - your comment at 21.23 15 Jan. This is an accusation of bad faith; and your denial that you are accusing me of bad faith is followed by a repetition of the same accusation "we [I guess you mean "you"] wish to delete more or less anything that is against the Chavez government." followed by the claim that this is "fact". Rd232 talk 18:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

 * And the most funny thing is that you argue that it should not be here because because it should be in the Human rights in Venezuela page, but at the same time, you refuse to have it in the human rights page ...Voui (talk) 16:34, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, what's funny/tragic is the way in which you decline to engage with the arguments made at that page; persistently edit war against consensus, requiring page protection, and start up again as soon as it's finished; come here to do the same thing with the same material, which is even less appropriate here; and try and add the same to Venezuela, besides creating a blatant POV fork of Human rights in Venezuela in lieu of collaborating with others on actually resolving that dispute. Rd232 talk 18:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not true. I am prepared to engage as much as you want. In fact I have never reverted any information that you have added to this encyclopedia. I am just trying to insert a few notable things that you just do not want there. You have never answered my questions. You always delete delete delete. Even JRSP was recognizing that such information has its place in Politics of Venezuela. And please when you disagree, don't revert immediately but discuss.Voui (talk) 19:44, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "I am prepared to engage as much as you want. In fact I have never reverted any information that you have added to this encyclopedia." Perhaps that's because my content is generally good, appropriate, well sourced and otherwise meeting policy. And by the way that definition of "engagement" is highly idiosyncratic - you keep walking away from conversation about your problematic content. Rd232 talk 21:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Voui, please do not misquote me. Saying that your content is not appropriate for the "government" article does not mean that I think it is appropriate here. JRSP (talk) 20:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I looked again at all the arguments and I cannot see any arguments against mentioning political conditions in the country. You mention my "intention" but we are not talking about intentions but about content... Voui (talk) 22:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

 * All these material is a lot of allegations: "opposition complains", "there were accusations", "there are allegations"; this text says nothing concrete. Sources include Human Rights Foundation, a polemical organization whose founder has family ties to a prominent member of the Venezuelan opposition. If we included this material, what prevents someone adding any Chavista "allegations" against the opposition? JRSP (talk) 00:27, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * In wikipedia, the issue is not so much whether this is true or not, but rather whether this is notable or not. Everything that is here is notable, as proven by all the press material on this.Voui (talk) 16:42, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * And BTW, if you wish to add some notable allegations concerning the opposition, please don't hesitate to enrich this page!Voui (talk) 16:47, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Notability is not the same that a few recent press releases, notability is permanent. Additionally, wikipedia's policies do not work in isolation; you cannot say the allegations of a political faction are notable while disregarding what the other faction says. JRSP (talk) 16:57, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine. Please do it! Add what the other faction says, for example. Let's enrich the page by having something concerning the political conditions, not only elections. Voui (talk) 18:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * No, you're getting the thing wrong! Mentioning that Venezuelan politics is highly polarized around support/opposition to Chávez is fine, multiple reliable sources support that; however, we must not engage in the polemic itself. We are not here to support either side. A litany of arguments and counter arguments from political factions is not "enriching the page". JRSP (talk) 19:23, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

RCTV and Political Prisoners
There are political prisoners, even in the U.S., the freest country in the world.

RCTV was shut down because they didn't pay their license fee, their taxes and they participated in a coup to overthrow the government. If that happened in the U.S., the leaders of the station would be executed. 76.180.61.194 (talk) 03:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Good point. This is something for the USA page! It seems to me that the issue is not so much whether this is true or not but whether this is notable. But this point can be added to the article.Voui (talk) 16:49, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * The view that if this happened in the US, the leaders would be executed, is unsourced speculative opinion, and not suitable for adding anywhere. Rd232 talk 13:04, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

 * When did the USA become "the freest country in the world"? --Oddeivind (talk) 17:30, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

User Lindorm
Hello, this short message to inform you that the user Lindorm has been infinitely banned from it.wiki for systematic insertion of politically biased contents as Single-purpose Account. This user is acting as SPA across several wikies, as clearly evidenced here, editing on the same set of articles with clear political bias and reacting in the talks with personal attacks and strongly politically biased arguments (see this discussion in it.wiki, where another administrator blocked him at first for 36 hours). For this reason, his last intervention (biased content without sources) has been undone. L736E, administrator in it.wiki (talk) 09:06, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

regional variation
It would be interesting to have something on how politics vary within different parts of Venezuela. For example, in the recent elections it appears the PSUV candidate's state-by-state results varied from 37% (Táchira) to 65% (Portuguesa), but afaict no Wikipedia article discusses the political geography of the country. --Delirium (talk) 00:47, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Why
Why do people want brnie sanders Loveisbright (talk) 14:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

1958 - 1999: Factually incorrect statements.
Under the section it clearly says "Democratic Action led the government during Venezuela's first democratic period (1945–1948).

However, this contradicts YOUR OWN other wikipedia article where it says it was clearly done through a coup see Wikipedia Article on 1945 Venezuelan Coup

title: Talk:Politics of Venezuela


text:
Talk:Prophet's Mosque

Untitled
The bottom picture forces the top one too far to the right... someone should fix this. Xoder 21:52, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Tweaked, hopefully fixed. Please drop a note here if it gives anyone problems on their browser. Turnstep 02:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Size
This must be one of the largest buildings in the world. Can someone add some statistics please? CalJW 17:20, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Tourism
Ok, so Saudi Arabia isn't exactly a very tourist friendly country, but is it open to non-Muslims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.10.39.5 (talk) 13:43, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Wrong Name
Calling it Masjid al-Nabawi will totalley change the meaning of the article, it's true when removing al from a single arabic word the meaning won't change, but it's not the same for a combined noun and adjective. for example the word al-Nabawi in al-Masjid al-Nabawi is an adjective, but when changed to Masjid al-Nabawi it'll become a noun and that changes the meaning, until the al before masjed is put back. so I advice using al in both words, and that goes for similar articles as well. AshrafSS 16:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Grave
Perhaps there should be something on the controversy in Islam around building over graves? I heard their prophet warned against it when he was dying.
 * Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia; please remember to sign your posts with four tildes. In any case, where did you learn of this information about graves and Muhammad's warning against building over them? Could I see a source? Thanks Jamutaq (talk) 01:34, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Merge the tomb article
I think that the newly created article Mohammed's tomb should be merged into this one as the tomb article would fit nicely into this one in terms of subject matter. MP  (talk) 13:18, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Sources and images
This page gives more info. about the mosque and it's history (one of the sources is WP itself, but there is another source) and this one provides some images of the mosque (have to check copyright though). MP  (talk) 13:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The image
The image of the mosque ia "above" the words "other mosques throughout the world" in the history chapter. Can someone fix it?--217.132.167.148 09:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

What is this picture on the page showing a pig???

Why is it saying Islam is dead???

Please remove it because i think it is vandalized thank u

Merge from Muhammad's tomb
There was an article called Muhammad's tomb, which was barely a stub. The only useful content in it was:

 * The sentence Outside of the Mosque a plaque reads "Inside here is bones and nothing more". I copied it here, but marked it as citation needed. Please check that it is correct.

 * The photo, which i put in the description section. Please check that it belongs here and add a caption.

Thanks. --Amir E. Aharoni 22:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Second holiest?
The intro states that this mosque is the second holiest in Islam. Does that status not belong to the Dome of the Rock? Chesdovi (talk) 20:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it doesn't. The Al-Aqsa mosque is the third holiest. MP (talk•contribs) 19:10, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * But there are reliable sources stating that this is so, see the info at Dome of the Rock I just readded. Chesdovi (talk) 00:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A little clarification is in order here. The Al-aqsa mosque is the third holiest mosque, but the actual Dome of the Rock is the second holiest place. The mosque must not be equated with the precise location of the dome. Hope this helps. MP (talk•contribs) 20:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! By the way, what is the 3rd holiest place? Chesdovi (talk) 20:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You're most welcome. I'm not sure what the third holiest place is. The Kaaba and the Dome of the Rock tend to be the ones most often discussed when considering 'holiness'. MP (talk•contribs) 20:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really MPatel. thestick (talk) 23:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Hala Sultan Tekke
I have never heard of Hala Sultan Tekke and most likely, most other Muslims have never heard of it either. To state that it shares the status of the third holiest site of Islam with the Al-aqsa mosque is, at best, dubious. At the very least, it is not notable. However, see Holiest sites in Islam.. MP (talk•contribs) 20:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is notable, but it lacks renown because Al Aqsa mosque has become the "3rd holiest" after it was used as a political pawn at the start of the 20th century. Nevertheless, Al Aqsa is still only third in "virtue". No religious book mentions holiness per-se. I think that Shia also view Najaf or Karbala as their third “holiest” sites. Chesdovi (talk) 20:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not notable. Also, some 1400 year old sources like the Hadith and Quran mention several important vitues about the Al-Aqsa mosque and some events related to that site. The "Hala Sultan Tekke" is mostly non-mainstream/dubious/locally revered as the third holiest. thestick (talk) 23:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Distraction
I realize it's the proper thing to do in Islam but having "Peace Be Unto Him" after every instance of Muhammad's name is rather distracting and prevents the article from flowing well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.110.204.129 (talk) 05:34, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * According to Manual of Style (Islam-related articles), the honorific "Peace Be Upon Him" "should generally not be used in articles". --Stormie (talk) 04:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and it's also a violation of NPOV. Jamutaq (talk) 01:27, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Didn't Mohammed die in Jerusalem?
Or was he not bodily assumed into heaven at the location of the Dome of the Rock? Could someone clarify this for me? Thanks.
 * According to the Muhammed article it was in Medina and is sourced from here. The highly esteemed CBW presents the Talk Page! 21:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I must have been confused. That was a very thorough article. If only that magazine could produce something so glowing and complementary about Christianity...

Picture of pilgrim
I have removed the picture prominently showing a smiling pilgrim with Al-Masjid al-Nabawi in the background. This is entirely inappropriate for an encyclopedia as the image is of low quality and the focus is clearly upon the person and not the subject of the article. DO NOT replace this picture with out at least discussing the issues I have raised—Wikipedia is not a depository for tourist pictures. Xargon666x6 (talk) 22:23, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree with this statement. 198.7.235.73 (talk) 20:41, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Wrong Picture
This picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tombstone_of_Umar_%28r.a%29_by_mohammad_adil_rais.JPG is identified in this article as the tomb of Muhammad, but the picture's caption says it's the tomb of Umar...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.230.177.44 (talk) 17:29, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Addressing the prophet
With all due respect, I will like to say that the editors and writers of this article should put Peace be upon him(shortly PBUH in parenthesis when referring to the holy prophet) or they can use a much easier form which is (S.A.W), abbreviation of the transliteration 'Sallalaahu Alaihi Wasallam' after his beloved name. Eg. Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W) or (PBUH). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.217.133.252 (talk) 21:09, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say that would be against Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Also, Muhammad isn't holy nor a prophit to everyone, just like Jesus isn't holy nor a prophit to everyone. No offense intended, just want to help clear up some possible misunderstandings. Jamutaq (talk) 01:30, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Map?
I'd like to see a floor plan of the Mosque detailing the era of the different expansions. --Error (talk) 03:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Masjid al-Haram which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:14, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 9 September 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus  Dr Strauss   talk   17:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Al-Masjid an-Nabawi → Prophet's Mosque – Consistency with using English names as in this move discussion about the other sacred mosque and WP:COMMONNAME in reliable English-language sources: Additonally, the first "Al-" (Arabic definite article) has really got to go per WP:THE. HyperGaruda (talk) 05:44, 9 September 2017 (UTC) --HyperGaruda (talk) 13:02, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * "Prophet's Mosque" Medina: 700 hits
 * "Mosque of the Prophet" Medina: 621 hits
 * "Masjid al-Nabawi" Medina: 305 hits
 * "Masjid an-Nabawi" Medina: 121 hits
 * Arabic grammar changes matters. "Nabawi" is an -īy adjective meaning "belonging to the prophet". "Al-Masjid an-Nabawi" means "the mosque that belongs to the prophet". In "Masjid an-Nabawi", losing the first "Al-" changes it into a genitive construction: "the mosque that belongs to someone/something that belongs to the prophet". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:39, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose, the current name is more common in reliable sources. Al can't be removed because of the reason stated by Anthony Appleyard. Khestwol (talk)
 * The 74 hits I get for "Al-Masjid an-Nabawi" is clearly less than the 700 hits for the "Prophet's Mosque" as pointed out in the opening post. --HyperGaruda (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Support for the same reason we have an article on the Dome of the Rock instead of on "Qubbat al-Sakhrah". Academicoffee71 (talk) 22:40, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * New account, see ongoing Sock investigation In ictu oculi (talk) 20:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Referring to Sockpuppet investigations/Kauffner I presume. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:02, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Oppose, per totals of 3 Arabic variant vs 1 English variant, cf reason given by Anthony Appleyard. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:09, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Can we please focus on the move to "Prophet's Mosque" and ignore my little grammar mistake about "Al-". I did not propose to move it to "Masjid al-Nabawi" to begin with, if you had not noticed. --HyperGaruda (talk) 13:02, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * are you sure you counted correctly? I listed two English and two Arabic variants, with the English variants totalling to over 3 times as many hits as the Arabic ones. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:10, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh you're right, I was looking at another 3rd minor Arabic variant, but you do have two English ones above. Hmm. 20:19, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Support this or Mosque of the Prophet. These are far and away the most WP:COMMONNAME for the subject by both Google Scholar and Google Books ("Mosque of the Prophet" Medina is the most common on Google Books).--Cúchullain t/ c 15:11, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Official Website
After quite an extensive search on the web I couldn't find the official website of the mosque, is there any? Moughera (talk) 09:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Nizam's Rubath Suggestion
The 5th Nizam of Hyderabad, Afzal Uddaula, built more than thirty buildings around Masjid Al-Haram and Masjid An-Nabawi for pilgrims visiting these holy places for Hajj. Nenetarun (talk) 12:02, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:54, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Umbrellas for the Piazza of the Prophet’s Holy Mosque, Madinah, SA.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:54, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Umbrellas for the Piazza of the Prophet’s Holy Mosque, Madinah, SA.jpg

Addressing the prophet
After reading the article it highly concerned me that every time the name of Prophet Muhammad was mentioned it only mentions the name, not the Prophet or PBUH or SAW. Now I saw arguments stating that He is not honoured to everyone so it's not mandatory to say the titles. I would like to state that whether other religious leaders or honourable person are not mentioned with titles we, muslims take this as a serious note and say Prophet before the name Muhammad(SAW). If you can't show minimal respect towards Him in an article related to Him and in such a big platform where many muslim may visit,,, then don't need to write anything about Him and His life.It's not any radical or irrational comment, I am just expressing my grief that how people wish cultures, outlooks and behaviours to be fixed and same. Our Prophet is special to us, just like our parents.So if you want to talk about my parents I expect you to honour them, and that's what we also want for our Prophet. 103.81.199.66 (talk) 00:23, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

 * I agree, it hurts me to see the name of our beloved prophet mentioned without adding PBUH. We respect Jesus and Maria in the same way. 86.3.26.173 (talk) 22:18, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 22 August 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, to Prophet's Mosque. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 11:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Al-Masjid an-Nabawi → Mosque of the Prophet – Or "Prophet's Mosque" if preferred. Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:ENGLISH.

The fact that the current lead gives the Arabic name in italicized transliteration and then says "known in English as the Prophet's Mosque" just further begs the question as to why the latter isn't the title, with the Arabic name given in the opening line per MOS:ALTNAME, as is usually the case. Online searches are imperfect, but as general indicators it's clear that the English names are more common in English sources:
 * Google Books:
 * Mosque of the Prophet (55,300)
 * Prophet's Mosque (18,300)
 * Masjid an-Nabawi (1,920)
 * Masjid al-Nabawi (2,430)
 * Al-Masjid an-Nabawi (1,130)
 * Al-Masjid al-Nabawi (1,770)
 * Google Scholar:
 * Mosque of the Prophet (1,520)
 * Prophet's Mosque (1,500)
 * Masjid an-Nabawi (316)
 * Masjid al-Nabawi (533)
 * Al-Masjid an-Nabawi (240)
 * Al-Masjid al-Nabawi (285)
 * JSTOR (smaller academic database): 247 for Mosque of the Prophet vs 33 for Masjid al-Nabawi (feel free to look up the other variants).
 * Ngram shows the same, but it has annoying quirks with hyphens and apostrophes. (I couldn't get the variants with "al-" before "masjid" to generate results, but given the results above they shouldn't hold any surprises.)

Notes: If you're looking directly at Google Books search results, toggle the "Tools" button to see the number of hits. All the searches above should be set to filter non-English results; but depending on your settings/cookies, you might see slightly different numbers, though proportionally about the same. Also, the search results overlap; e.g. the results for "Masjid an-Nabawi" also include results for "al-Masjid an-Nabawi". I'm providing all these variants just to reduce the chance of results being skewed by minor differences.

I have no strong feeling about "Prophet's Mosque" versus "Mosque of the Prophet". I picked the one that seems more common across most results above, but I note that the Ngrams seem to favour "Prophet's Mosque". I would equally support a move to the latter if responses below indicate a preference for it. R Prazeres (talk) 21:21, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Support Prophet's Mosque per Ngrams trend prevalence and brevity. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Prophet's Mosque


text:
Papeete

Papeete (Tahitian: Papeʻetē, pronounced ) is the capital city of French Polynesia, an overseas collectivity of the French Republic in the Pacific Ocean. The commune of Papeete is located on the island of Tahiti, in the administrative subdivision of the Windward Islands, of which Papeete is the administrative capital. Both the President of French Polynesia and French High Commissioner reside in Papeete.

It is the primary center of Tahitian and French Polynesian public and private governmental, commercial, industrial, and financial services, the hub of French Polynesian tourism and a commonly used port of call. The Windward Islands are themselves part of the Society Islands. The name Papeetē, sometimes also spelled Papeete in languages other than Tahitian, means "water from a basket". The urban area of Papeetē had a total population of 124,724 inhabitants at the 2022 census, 26,654 of whom lived in the commune of Papeetē proper.

Geography
The commune of Papeetē is subdivided into eleven quartiers (wards):

Climate
Papeetē features a tropical monsoon climate (Am according to the Köppen climate classification) with a wet season and dry season, bordering a tropical rainforest climate, with high temperatures and humidity year round. However, precipitation is observed even during the city's dry season. The dry season is short, covering only the months of August and September. The rest of the year is wet, with the heaviest precipitation falling in the months of December and January. Sunshine is moderately high, as most precipitation comes as thunderstorms and cyclones, and does not last for long.

History of Papeetē
In 1902, it became necessary to move the post office of Papeetē to another location. Instead of demolishing it and rebuilding it at the new site, it was lifted from the subsoil and moved as a whole on a Decauville railway.

Previously, during the construction of the Faaiere water tower with a capacity of 150,000 litres for the drinking water supply of the city of Papeetē, a difference in altitude of 37 metres was overcome with a light railway laid on a 220 metre long inclined plane. A winch driven by a 12-horsepower Fowler or Decauville locomobile carried three narrow gauge railway trucks at a time, consuming up to 200 kg of coal per day for about sixty journeys. Paul Decauville mentioned in a letter to Governor Theodore Lacascade, dated 18 June 1891, an order for "15 km of portable rail tracks and about 12,000 francs of rolling stock, payable in three years," presumably for a tramway from Papeetē to Punaauia operated by hand or animals.

At the outbreak of World War I Papeetē was shelled by German vessels, causing loss of life and significant damage.

The growth of the city was boosted by the decision to move the French nuclear weapon test range from Algeria, which had become independent, to the atolls of Moruroa and Fangataufa, some 1500 km to the east of Tahiti. This was motivated, in particular, by the construction of the Faaā International Airport, the only international airport in French Polynesia, near Papeetē. In 1983, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints built the Papeetē Tahiti Temple here because of its large number of members in the region. On 5 September 1995 the government of Jacques Chirac conducted the first of a series of nuclear test detonations off the shores of Moruroa. A resulting riot in Papeetē lasted for two days and damaged the international airport, injured 40 people, and scared away tourism for some time. Similar rioting had occurred after another French nuclear test in the same area in 1987.

Transportation
The streets of the town center are very busy, and traffic can be a problem since they are very narrow. The Tahiti freeway starts close to the town center as Pōmare Boulevard, named after the Tahitian Royal Family of the 19th century. By air, passengers depart from the Faaā International Airport. Domestic interisland service is operated by Air Tahiti with international flights being operated by Air Tahiti Nui, Air France, LATAM Chile, United and other airlines. By sea, passengers can use a marine ferry service for travel to Moorea or a Bora Bora cruise line service for travel to Bora Bora.

Demographics
The urban area of Papeetē had a total population of 124,724 inhabitants at the 2022 census, 26,654 of whom lived in the commune of Papeetē proper. The urban area of Papeetē is made up of six communes. They are listed from northeast to southwest:

 * Māhina
 * Arue
 * Pīra'e
 * Papeetē (historically the most populous commune in the urban area, and still the administrative capital)
 * Faaā (which became in 1988 the most populous commune in the urban area)
 * Punaauia

Historical population
Average population growth of the Papeetē urban area:

 * 1956–1962: +1,107 people per year (+3.5% per year)
 * 1962–1971: +3,597 people per year (+7.6% per year)
 * 1971–1977: +2,025 people per year (+2.9% per year)
 * 1977–1983: +2,400 people per year (+2.9% per year)
 * 1983–1988: +2,158 people per year (+2.2% per year)
 * 1988–1996: +1,489 people per year (+1.4% per year)
 * 1996–2002: +1,873 people per year (+1.6% per year)
 * 2002–2007: +913 people per year (+0.7% per year)
 * 2007–2012: +386 people per year (+0.3% per year)
 * 2012–2017: +631 people per year (+0.5% per year)

Migrations
The places of birth of the 136,771 residents in the Papeetē urban area at the 2017 census were the following (2007 census in parentheses):

 * 72.5% were born in Tahiti (up from 68.4% at the 2007 census)
 * 11.3% in Metropolitan France (down from 12.8% at the 2007 census)
 * 6.2% in the Society Islands (other than Tahiti) (down from 6.8% at the 2007 census)
 * 2.9% in the Tuamotu-Gambier (down from 3.6% at the 2007 census)
 * 1.9% in the Marquesas Islands (down from 2.1% at the 2007 census)
 * 1.6% in the Austral Islands (down from 2.0% at the 2007 census)
 * 1.3% in the overseas departments and territories of France other than French Polynesia (0.9% in New Caledonia and Wallis and Futuna; 0.4% in the other overseas departments and collectivities) (down from 1.6% at the 2007 census)
 * 0.6% in Southeast Asia and East Asia (down from 0.7% at the 2007 census)
 * 0.4% in North Africa (most of them Pieds-Noirs) (down from 0.5% at the 2007 census)
 * 1.3% in other foreign countries (down from 1.5% at the 2007 census)

Languages
At the 2017 census, 98.4% of the population in the urban area of Papeetē whose age was 15 years and older reported that they could speak French (up from 98.2% at the 2007 census). 96.7% reported that they could also read and write it (up from 96.5% at the 2007 census). Only 0.7% of the population whose age was 15 years and older had no knowledge of French (down from 1.2% at the 2007 census).

At the same census, 83.9% of the population in the urban area of Papeetē whose age was 15 years and older reported that the language they spoke the most at home was French (up from 79.7% at the 2007 census). 13.5% reported that Tahitian was the language they spoke the most at home (down from 16.5% at the 2007 census). 1.2% reported another Polynesian language (down from 1.7% at the 2007 census), 0.9% reported a Chinese dialect (down from 1.6% at the 2007 census), half of whom speak Hakka, and 0.5% reported another language (same as in 2007).

19.8% of the population in the urban area of Papeetē whose age was 15 years and older reported that they had no knowledge of any Polynesian language at the 2017 census (up from 19.5% at the 2007 census), whereas 80.2% reported that they had some form of knowledge of at least one Polynesian language (down from 80.5% at the 2007 census).

Travel and tourism
Travelling tourists arrive and depart Papeetē by private yacht or via cruise ship at Papeetē Harbor, or by air at Faaā International Airport, which was completed and opened in 1962.

Main sights

 * The waterfront esplanade.
 * Bougainville Park (once named Albert Park, in honour of a former Belgian king and World War One hero), is now named for Louis Antoine de Bougainville, the first French explorer to circumnavigate the globe.
 * Cathedral of Notre Dame of Papeetē.
 * The Territorial Assembly is the heart of the Polynesian government and contains the Territorial Assembly building, the High Commissioner's residence and also a once popular clubhouse of Paul Gauguin. It was also once the site of the royal residence and palace of Queen Pōmare IV of Tahiti, who ruled from 1827 to 1877.
 * Presidential palace.
 * Pape'etē Market
 * The Papeetē Tahiti Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 * The Monument to Pouvanaa a Oopa (a decorated World War I hero, Tahitian nationalist, and deputy to Paris for the Tahitian Territorial Assembly).
 * The Mairie (town hall).

In popular culture

 * The film El pasajero clandestino deals with several persons trying to take control of the inheritance of a recently deceased English film magnate, who travel to Papeetē to look for the heir.
 * Papeetē is mentioned in the songs "Southern Cross" by Crosby, Stills & Nash and "Somewhere Over China" by Jimmy Buffett.
 * Papeetē is mentioned in Bruce Brown's surf film The Endless Summer as one of the surf sites visited by the two longboarders chasing the summer season around the world. The beach at Papeete is dubbed "Ins and outs" because the steep shore causes waves to break in both directions—toward the beach and out to sea.
 * The first chapter of Robert A. Heinlein's 1984 novel Job: A Comedy of Justice is set in Pape'ete.
 * Papeetē is where Robert Louis Stevenson's "The Ebb Tide" begins.
 * Papeetē is a setting in Mutiny on the Bounty
 * Pape'etē, a schooner built by Matthew Turner, who had extensive business interests in Tahiti, was known for a fast passage from San Francisco to Tahiti of 17 days.
 * Papeetē is mentioned in Paul Thomas Anderson's crime-drama film Inherent Vice as a possible destination (never reached) of Burke Stodger in a getaway on his boat after being blacklisted by Hollywood.

Economy
Air Tahiti Nui has its head office in the Immeuble Dexter in Papeetē.

Education
The Lycée Paul-Gauguin is located in the city.

Notable people

 * Chantal Galenon, politician and women's rights activist
 * Unutea Hirshon, politician and activist
 * Andy Tupaia, musician

General and cited references

 * Kay, Robert F. (2001). Hidden Tahiti. Berkeley, California: Ulysses Press. ISBN 1-56975-222-2.

title: Papeete


text:
Baron Davies

Baron Davies, of Llandinam in the County of Montgomery, is a title in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. It was created in 1932 for the Welsh businessman, Liberal Member of Parliament and philanthropist, David Davies. He was the grandson and namesake of the prominent industrialist David Davies Llandinam.

The second Baron Davies was the son of the first Baron and his first wife, Amy, daughter of L. T. Penman. He married Ruth, daughter of Major William Marshall Dugdale, in 1939. They had two sons. Lord Davies fought in the Second World War as a major in the Royal Welch Fusiliers and was killed on the Western Front in September 1944, aged 29, only three months after succeeding his father in the barony. His three-year-old eldest son, David, inherited the barony shortly before his fourth birthday.

As of 2024, the title is held by the fourth Baron, who succeeded his father in that year.

Barons Davies (1932)

 * David Davies, 1st Baron Davies (1880–1944)
 * David Davies, 2nd Baron Davies (16 January 1915 – 25 September 1944)
 * David Davies, 3rd Baron Davies (1940–2024)
 * David Daniel Davies, 4th Baron Davies (b. 1975)

The heir presumptive is the current holder's brother, The Hon. Benjamin Michael Graham Davies (b. 1985)

title: Baron Davies


text:
Talk:Intermolecular

 * 1) ...process or characteristic in chemistry that... Well, I think this would rather limit the applicability of the definition. There are intermolecular interactions that are also considered in Physics as an example... The definition should apply regardless of the science that uses it. I am tentatively removing the "in chemistry" phrase. On the other hand, is there a rule to have such short definitions redirected to the Wiktionary??? how do we link to the Wiktionary? test: intermolecular... yeah it works. Unconcerned 22:14, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Intermolecular


text:
Baron Denham

Baron Denham, of Weston Underwood in the County of Buckingham, is a title in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. It was created in 1937 for Sir George Bowyer, 1st Baronet, a Conservative politician who had earlier represented Buckingham in the House of Commons. He had already been created a baronet, of Weston Underwood, in 1933. Bowyer was a great-great-great-grandson of Sir William Bowyer, 3rd Baronet, of Denham Court (see below). the titles are held by his second but only surviving son, the 2nd Baron, who succeeded in 1948. In 1950 he also succeeded his distant relative in the Bowyer baronetcy, of Denham Court. Like his father, the 2nd Baron Denham was a Conservative politician and one of the ninety elected hereditary peers that remain in the House of Lords after the passing of the House of Lords Act 1999.

The Bowyer baronetcy, of Denham Court in the County of Buckingham, was created in the Baronetage of England in 1660 for William Bowyer. He represented Buckinghamshire in the House of Commons.

His great-great-grandson Sir George Bowyer, the 5th Baronet, was an Admiral in the Royal Navy and distinguished himself at the Battle of the Glorious First of June in 1794. For this he was created a baronet, of Radley in the County of Berkshire, in his own right. In 1799 he also succeeded his elder brother in the baronetcy of Denham Court. His son, the 6th and 2nd Baronet, sat as Member of Parliament for Malmesbury and Abingdon. He was succeeded by his son, the 7th and 3rd Baronet, who represented Dundalk and County Wexford in Parliament as a Liberal. On the death in 1950 of his nephew, the 9th and 5th Baronet, the baronetcy of Radley became extinct. The late Baronet was succeeded in the baronetcy of Denham Court by his distant relative the 2nd Baron Denham, 2nd Baronet, of Weston Underwood (see above), who became the 10th Baronet. The titles remain united.

The family seat is The Laundry Cottage, near Weston Underwood, Buckinghamshire.

Bowyer baronets, of Denham Court (1660)

 * Sir William Bowyer, 1st Baronet (1612–1679)
 * Sir William Bowyer, 2nd Baronet (1639–1722)
 * Sir William Bowyer, 3rd Baronet (1710–1767)
 * Sir William Bowyer, 4th Baronet (1736–1799)
 * Sir George Bowyer, 5th and 1st Baronet (1739–1800, himself created a baronet, of Radley, in 1794)
 * Sir George Bowyer, 6th and 2nd Baronet (1783–1860)
 * Sir George Bowyer, 7th and 3rd Baronet (1811–1883)
 * Sir William Bowyer, 8th and 4th Baronet (1812–1893)
 * Sir George Henry Bowyer, 9th and 5th Baronet (1870–1950)

The baronetcy of Radley became extinct with the death of the 9th/5th Baronet.

For further succession in the baronetcy of Denham Court, see Baron Denham (1937).

Bowyer baronets, of Radley (1794)

 * Sir George Bowyer, 5th and 1st Baronet (1739–1800, inherited the 1660 baronetcy from his brother, who died without issue in 1799)
 * Sir George Bowyer, 6th and 2nd Baronet (1783–1860)
 * Sir George Bowyer, 7th and 3rd Baronet (1811–1883)
 * Sir William Bowyer, 8th and 4th Baronet (1812–1893)
 * Sir George Henry Bowyer, 9th and 5th Baronet (1870–1950)

Baronetcy extinct.

Bowyer baronets, of Weston Underwood (1933)

 * Sir George Edward Wentworth Bowyer, 1st Baronet (1886–1948, created Baron Denham in 1937)

Baron Denham (1937)

 * George Edward Wentworth Bowyer, 1st Baron Denham, 1st Baronet (1886–1948)
 * Bertram Stanley Mitford Bowyer, 2nd Baron Denham, 10th and 2nd Baronet (1927–2021)
 * Inherited the Bowyer baronetcy, of Denham Court, in 1950. Had previously succeeded as baronet, of Weston Underwood, and Baron Denham.

 * Richard Grenville George Bowyer, 3rd Baron Denham, 11th and 3rd Baronet (born 1959)

The heir presumptive is his brother, the Hon. Henry Martin Mitford Bowyer (born 1963).

The heir presumptive's heir apparent is his only son, Edmund Hunter Mitford Bowyer (born 1997).

title: Baron Denham


text:
Eartha Kitt

Eartha Mae Kitt (born Eartha Mae Keith; January 17, 1927 – December 25, 2008) was an American singer and actress known for her highly distinctive singing style and her 1953 recordings of "C'est si bon" and the Christmas novelty song "Santa Baby".

Kitt began her career in 1942 and appeared in the 1945 original Broadway theatre production of the musical Carib Song. In the early 1950s, Kitt had six US Top 30 entries, including "Uska Dara" (1953) and "I Want to Be Evil" (1953). Her other recordings include the UK Top 10 song "Under the Bridges of Paris" (1954), "Just an Old Fashioned Girl" (1956) and "Where Is My Man" (1983). Orson Welles once called her the "most exciting woman in the world". Kitt starred as Catwoman in the third and final season of the television series Batman in 1967.

In 1968, Kitt's career in the U.S. deteriorated after she made anti-Vietnam War statements at a White House luncheon. Ten years later, Kitt made a successful return to Broadway in the 1978 original production of the musical Timbuktu!, for which she received the first of her two Tony Award nominations. Kitt's second was for the 2000 original production of the musical The Wild Party. Kitt wrote three autobiographies.

Kitt found a new generation of fans through her roles in the Disney films The Emperor's New Groove (2000), in which she voiced the villainous Yzma, and Holes (2003). Kitt reprised the role as Yzma in the direct-to-video sequel Kronk's New Groove (2005), as well as the animated series The Emperor's New School (2006–2008). Her work on the latter earned her two Daytime Emmy Awards. Kitt posthumously won a third Emmy in 2010 for her guest performance on Wonder Pets!

Early life
Eartha Mae Keith was born in the small town of North, South Carolina on January 17, 1927. Her mother, Annie Mae Keith (later Annie Mae Riley), was of Cherokee and African descent. Though she had little knowledge of her father, it was reported that he was the son of the owner of the plantation where she had been born, and that Kitt was conceived by rape. In a 2013 biography, British journalist John Williams claimed that Kitt's father was a white man, a local doctor named Daniel Sturkie. Kitt's daughter, Kitt McDonald Shapiro, has questioned the accuracy of the claim.

Eartha's mother soon went to live with a black man who refused to accept Eartha because of her relatively pale complexion. Kitt was raised by a relative named Aunt Rosa, in whose household she was abused. After the death of Annie Mae, Eartha was sent to live with another close relative named Mamie Kitt (who Eartha later came to believe was her biological mother) in Harlem, New York City, where Eartha attended the Metropolitan Vocational High School (later renamed the High School of Performing Arts).

Career
Kitt began her career as a member of the Katherine Dunham Company in 1943 and remained a member of the troupe until 1948. A talented singer with a distinctive voice, Kitt recorded the hits "Let's Do It", "Champagne Taste", "C'est si bon" (which Stan Freberg famously burlesqued), "Just an Old Fashioned Girl", "Monotonous", "Je cherche un homme", "Love for Sale", "I'd Rather Be Burned as a Witch", "Kâtibim" (a Turkish melody), "Mink, Schmink", "Under the Bridges of Paris", and her most recognizable hit "Santa Baby", which was released in 1953. Kitt's unique style was enhanced as she became fluent in French during her years performing in Europe. Kitt spoke four languages and sang in 11, which she demonstrated in many of the live recordings of her cabaret performances.

Career peaks
In 1950, Orson Welles gave Kitt her first starring role as Helen of Troy in his staging of Dr. Faustus. Two years later, Kitt was cast in the revue New Faces of 1952, introducing "Monotonous" and "Bal, Petit Bal", two songs with which she is still identified. In 1954, 20th Century Fox distributed an independently filmed version of the revue entitled New Faces, in which Kitt performed "Monotonous", "Uska Dara", "C'est si bon", and "Santa Baby". Though it is often alleged that Welles and Kitt had an affair during her 1957 run in Shinbone Alley, Kitt categorically denied this in a June 2001 interview with George Wayne of Vanity Fair. "I never had sex with Orson Welles," Kitt told Vanity Fair: "It was a working situation and nothing else." Her other films in the 1950s included The Mark of the Hawk (1957), St. Louis Blues (1958) and Anna Lucasta (1958).

Throughout the rest of the 1950s and early 1960s, Kitt recorded; worked in film, television, and nightclubs; and returned to the Broadway stage, in Mrs. Patterson (during the 1954–1955 season), Shinbone Alley (in 1957), and the short-lived Jolly's Progress (in 1959). In 1964, Kitt helped open the Circle Star Theater in San Carlos, California. In the late 1960s, Batman featured Kitt as Catwoman after Julie Newmar had left the show in 1967. She appeared in a 1967 Mission: Impossible episode "The Traitor", as Tina Mara, a contortionist.

In 1956, Kitt published an autobiography called Thursday's Child, which would later serve as inspiration for the name of the 1999 David Bowie song "Thursday's Child".

The "White House Incident"
On 18 January 1968 during Lyndon B. Johnson's administration, Kitt encountered a substantial professional setback after she made anti-war statements during a White House luncheon. Kitt was asked by First Lady Lady Bird Johnson about the Vietnam War. She replied: "You send the best of this country off to be shot and maimed. No wonder the kids rebel and take pot." During a question-and-answer session, Kitt stated:

""

Kitt's remarks reportedly caused Mrs. Johnson to burst into tears. It is widely believed that Kitt's career in the United States was ended following her comments about the Vietnam War, after which she was branded "a sadistic nymphomaniac" by the CIA. A CIA dossier about Kitt was discovered by Seymour Hersh in 1975. Hersh published an article about the dossier in The New York Times. The dossier contained comments about Kitt's sex life and family history, along with negative opinions of her that were held by former colleagues. Kitt's response to the dossier was to say: "I don't understand what this is about. I think it's disgusting." Following the incident, Kitt devoted her energies to performances in Europe and Asia.

In February 2022, Catwoman vs. the White House, The New Yorker short documentary, directed by Scott Calonico used photos, clippings and footage to show how Kitt disrupted the White House luncheon, taking Lyndon B. Johnson to task.

Broadway
In the 1970s, Kitt appeared on television several times on BBC's long-running variety show The Good Old Days, and in 1987 took over from fellow American Dolores Gray in the London West End production of Stephen Sondheim's Follies and returned at the end of that run to star in a one-woman-show at the same Shaftesbury Theatre, both to tremendous acclaim. In both those shows, Kitt performed the show-stopping theatrical anthem "I'm Still Here". Kitt returned to New York City in a triumphant turn in the Broadway spectacle Timbuktu! (a version of the perennial Kismet, set in Africa) in 1978. In the musical, one song gives a "recipe" for mahoun, a preparation of cannabis, in which her sultry purring rendition of the refrain "constantly stirring with a long wooden spoon" was distinctive. Kitt was nominated for the Tony Award for Best Actress in a Musical for her performance. In the late 1990s, Kitt appeared as the Wicked Witch of the West in the North American national touring company of The Wizard of Oz. In 2000, she again returned to Broadway in the short-lived run of Michael John LaChiusa's The Wild Party. Beginning in late 2000, Kitt starred as the Fairy Godmother in the U.S. national tour of Cinderella. In 2003, she replaced Chita Rivera in Nine. Kitt reprised her role as the Fairy Godmother at a special engagement of Cinderella, which took place at Lincoln Center during the holiday season of 2004. From October to early December 2006, Kitt co-starred in the off-Broadway musical Mimi le Duck.

Voice-over
In 1978, Kitt did the voice-over in a television commercial for the album Aja by the rock group Steely Dan. In 1988, she voiced Vietnam After The Fire. a British documentary which looked at the legacy left to the Vietnamese people after the devastation of the war and showed the effects of bombings and defoliants on farmland and forests 13 years after the war ended. One of Kitt's more unusual roles was as Kaa in a 1994 BBC Radio adaptation of The Jungle Book. In 1998, she voiced Bagheera in the live-action direct-to-video Disney film The Jungle Book: Mowgli's Story. Kitt also lent her distinctive voice to Yzma in The Emperor's New Groove (for which she won her first Annie Award) and reprised her role in Kronk's New Groove and The Emperor's New School, for which Kitt won two Emmy Awards and, in 2007–08, two more Annie Awards for Voice Acting in an Animated Television Production. From 2002 to 2006, she also voiced the villain Vexus in the Nickelodeon series My Life as a Teenage Robot.

1980s
In 1984, Kitt returned to the music charts with a disco song titled "Where Is My Man", the first certified gold record of her career. "Where Is My Man" reached the Top 40 on the UK Singles Chart, where it peaked at No. 36; the song became a standard in discos and dance clubs of the time and made the Top 10 on the US Billboard dance chart, where it reached No. 7. The single was followed by the album I Love Men on the Record Shack label. Kitt found new audiences in nightclubs across the UK and the United States, including a whole new generation of gay male fans, and she responded by frequently giving benefit performances in support of HIV/AIDS organizations. Kitt's 1989 follow-up hit "Cha-Cha Heels" (featuring Bronski Beat), which was originally intended to be recorded by Divine, received a positive response from UK dance clubs, reaching No. 32 in the charts in that country. In 1988, Kitt replaced Dolores Gray in the West End production of Stephen Sondheim's Follies as Carlotta, receiving standing ovations every night for her rendition of "I'm Still Here" at the beginning of act 2. Kitt went on to perform her own one-woman show at the Shaftesbury Theatre to sold-out houses for three weeks in early 1989 after Follies.

1990s
Kitt appeared with Jimmy James and George Burns at a fundraiser in 1990 produced by Scott Sherman, an agent from the Atlantic Entertainment Group. It was arranged that James would impersonate Kitt and then Kitt would walk out to take the microphone. This was met with a standing ovation. In 1991, Kitt returned to the screen in Ernest Scared Stupid as Old Lady Hackmore. In 1992, she had a supporting role as Lady Eloise in Boomerang. In 1995, Kitt appeared as herself in an episode of The Nanny, where she performed a song in French and flirted with Maxwell Sheffield (Charles Shaughnessy). In November 1996, Kitt appeared in an episode of Celebrity Jeopardy!. She also did a series of commercials for Old Navy.

2000s
In 2000, Kitt won an Annie Award for her starring voice role as "Yzma" in the Disney feature film The Emperor's New Groove, later reprising the role in 2005 in Disney's Kronk's New Groove. Kitt returned once again to the silver screen in 2003 with the charming role of Madame Zeroni in the film Holes based on the book by the same name, by author Louis Sachar. In August 2007, Kitt was the spokesperson for MAC Cosmetics' Smoke Signals collection. She re-recorded "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" for the occasion, was showcased on the MAC website, and the song was played at all MAC locations carrying the collection for the month. Kitt also appeared in the 2007 independent film And Then Came Love opposite Vanessa Williams. In her later years, Kitt made annual appearances in the New York Manhattan cabaret scene at venues such as the Ballroom and the Café Carlyle. As noted, Kitt did voice work for the animated projects The Emperor's New Groove and its spinoffs, as well as for My Life as a Teenage Robot. In April 2008, just months before her death, Kitt appeared at the Cheltenham Jazz Festival; the performance was recorded. Kitt was also a guest star in "Once Upon a Time in Springfield" of The Simpsons, where she was depicted as one of Krusty's past marriages.

Personal life
Kitt married John William McDonald, an associate of a real estate investment company, on June 9, 1960. Their daughter, Kitt McDonald, born on November 26, 1961, and baptized Catholic at Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church. Eartha Kitt and McDonald separated on July 1, 1963, and divorced on March 26, 1964.

A longtime Connecticut resident, Kitt lived in a converted barn on a sprawling farm in the Merryall section of New Milford for many years and was active in local charities and causes throughout Litchfield County. She later moved to Pound Ridge, New York, but returned in 2002 to the southern Fairfield County, Connecticut town of Weston, in order to be near her daughter Kitt and family. Her daughter, Kitt, married Charles Lawrence Shapiro in 1987.

Activism
Kitt was active in numerous social causes in the 1950s and 1960s. In 1966, she established the Kittsville Youth Foundation, a chartered and non-profit organization for underprivileged youths in the Watts area of Los Angeles. Kitt was also involved with a group of youths in the area of Anacostia in Washington, D.C., who called themselves "Rebels with a Cause". She supported the groups' efforts to clean up streets and establish recreation areas in an effort to keep them out of trouble by testifying with them before the House General Subcommittee on Education of the Committee on Education and Labor. In her testimony, in May 1967, Kitt stated that the Rebels' "achievements and accomplishments should certainly make the adult 'do-gooders' realize that these young men and women have performed in 1 short year – with limited finances – that which was not achieved by the same people who might object to turning over some of the duties of planning, rehabilitation, and prevention of juvenile delinquents and juvenile delinquency to those who understand it and are living it". Kitt added that "the Rebels could act as a model for all urban areas throughout the United States with similar problems". "Rebels with a Cause" subsequently received the needed funding. Kitt was also a member of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom; her criticism of the Vietnam War and its connection to poverty and racial unrest in 1968 can be seen as part of a larger commitment to peace activism. Like many politically active public figures of her time, Kitt was under surveillance by the CIA, beginning in 1956. After The New York Times discovered the CIA file on Kitt in 1975, she granted the paper permission to print portions of the report, stating: "I have nothing to be afraid of and I have nothing to hide."

Kitt later became a vocal advocate for LGBT rights and publicly supported same-sex marriage, which she considered a civil right. She had been quoted as saying: "I support it [gay marriage] because we're asking for the same thing. If I have a partner and something happens to me, I want that partner to enjoy the benefits of what we have reaped together. It's a civil-rights thing, isn't it?" Kitt famously appeared at many LGBT fundraisers, including a mega event in Baltimore, Maryland, with George Burns and Jimmy James. Scott Sherman, an agent at Atlantic Entertainment Group, stated: "Eartha Kitt is fantastic... appears at so many LGBT events in support of civil rights." In a 1992 interview with Dr. Anthony Clare, Kitt spoke about her gay following, saying: ""

Death
Kitt died of colon cancer on Christmas Day 2008 at her home in Weston, Connecticut; she was 81 years old. Her daughter, Kitt McDonald, described her last days with her mother:

"I was with her when she died. She left this world literally screaming at the top of her lungs. I was with her constantly, she lived not even 3 miles from my house, we were together practically every day. She was home for the last few weeks when the doctor told us there was nothing they could do any more. Up until the last two days, she was still moving around. The doctor told us she will leave very quickly and her body will just start to shut down. But when she left, she left the world with a bang, she left it how she lived it. She screamed her way out of here, literally. I truly believe her survival instincts were so part of her DNA that she was not going to go quietly or willingly. It was just the two of us hanging out [during the last days] she was very funny. We didn't have to [talk] because I always knew how she felt about me. I was the love of her life, so the last part of her life we didn't have to have these heart to heart talks. She started to see people that weren't there. She thought I could see them too, but, of course, I couldn't. I would make fun of her like, 'I'm going to go in the other room and you stay here and talk to your friends.'"

Discography

 * Studio albums

 * Leonard Sillman's New Faces of 1952 (Original Cast) (as cast member) (1952)
 * RCA Victor Presents Eartha Kitt (1953)
 * That Bad Eartha (1954)
 * Mrs. Patterson (Original Cast Recording) (as starring cast member) (1954)
 * Down to Eartha (1955)
 * That Bad Eartha (1956)
 * Thursday's Child (1957)
 * St. Louis Blues (1958)
 * The Fabulous Eartha (1959)
 * Revisited (1960)
 * Bad But Beautiful (1962)
 * The Romantic Eartha (1962)
 * Love for Sale (1965)
 * Canta en Castellano (1965)
 * Sentimental Eartha (1970)
 * I Love Men (1984)
 * I'm Still Here (1989)
 * Thinking Jazz (1991)
 * Back in Business (1994)

Awards and nominations

 * In 1960, the Hollywood Walk of Fame honored her with a star, which can be found on 6656 Hollywood Boulevard.
 * In 2016, January 17 was announced as Eartha Kitt Day in Kitt's home state of South Carolina. In 2022 the day was enshrined into state law in SC Code § 53-3-75 (2022). South Carolinian Sheldon Rice is credited for beginning the push for legislation declaring her birthday as a state holiday since the time of her death in 2008. State Rep. Gilda Cobb-Hunter first introduced the legislation to create the State holiday in 2011.

title: Eartha Kitt


text:
Talk:Reinheitsgebot

Differences between German and English versions
Someone should translate the German version of the entry into English. I'd do it, but with only rudimentary skill at German, this would take me a month. Just a suggestion.

Very good idea, especially as the German article disagrees considerably with this one:

"Damit gelten die Vorschriften über zulässige Zutaten des alten BierStG jetzt nur noch für die Bierherstellung in Deutschland für den deutschen Markt. Importiertes Bier ist aufgrund des o.a. Urteils des Europäischen Gerichtshofes von 1987 nicht an diese Vorschriften gebunden; auch deutsche Brauereien dürfen davon abweichen, wenn sie für den Export produzieren, oder für „besondere Biere“ eine Ausnahmegenehmigung erhalten."

That's very different from what is stated here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.209.208.11 (talk) 13:19, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Based on Google Translate, I've tried to clear up the most obvious differences between the two, consistent with good practices around sourcing (lots of the German article, like this one, is unsourced). If anyone else wants to pitch in, you're welcome to! —Luis (talk) 02:34, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I've done a lot more to get the key points from the German article into this one. Again, though, if anyone is a native German speaker, especially if you're comfortable with looking up German sources, there is a lot more information there that could be imported! —Luis (talk) 06:21, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Luis, thanks for your work on the article, you've made some good improvements. I'll try to translate over some more from the German article when I have time.IamNotU (talk) 19:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Translators
Whoever keeps editing the English version of this page really to improve his or her writing skills. I went ahead and make (MADE) some grammatical changes; the page is still not pretty, but at least it doesn't sound like a first year "Inglisch" student wrote the wiki.

Future editors, if you plan to edit this page, please, please, please make sure you are a native or near-native writer. Don't just directly translate words from the German version of this wiki, or write without at least consulting someone who uses English on a regular basis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.101.169.88 (talk • contribs) 06:24, 28 November 2004 (UTC)

 * Please sign and date your demands with four tildes ~ so other editors are able to ask you for translation help if it becomes an issue. - WeniWidiWiki 23:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Bavarian centered view = POV?
Where is Weimar? Where is Weißensee? Have a look at the article by German Wikipedia for a more accurate point of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.228.172.246 (talk) 20:17, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

 * I have attempted to address this somewhat, but note that this section of the German article is poorly sourced, and I have had difficulty finding many good sources in English on the subject. —Luis (talk) 00:53, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Chronology
Hi, I think the article could be improved by rearranging its paragraphs to ensure the chronology of the events mentioned. --Gnom (talk) 15:30, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

There is a new stamp!
https://www.efiliale.de/briefmarke-nassklebend-500-jahre-reinheitsgebot-fuer-bier-45-ct-10er-bogen Stephanie  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:87:4A71:2716:AC22:6327:78E6:DB5D (talk) 12:18, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately German stamps are somewhat problematic. (It is a little bit of a wonder that the 450-year stamp hasn't already been deleted.) For more details, see here. —Luis (talk) 05:13, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924021914/http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/history.html to http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/history.html
 * Added tag to https://www.jurion.de/Urteile/EuGH/1987-03-12/178_84
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150826162155/http://www.gordonbiersch.com/brewery/history.html to http://www.gordonbiersch.com/brewery/history.html

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title: Talk:Reinheitsgebot


text:
Schleinikon

Schleinikon is a municipality in the district of Dielsdorf in the canton of Zürich in Switzerland.

Geography
Situated in the Wehntal, Schleinikon has an area of 5.7 km2. Of this area, 49.9% is used for agricultural purposes, while 43.2% is forested. Of the rest of the land, 6.7% is settled (buildings or roads) and the remainder (0.2%) is non-productive (rivers, glaciers or mountains).

Demographics
Schleinikon has a population (as of ) of. , 5.7% of the population was made up of foreign nationals. Over the last 10 years the population has grown at a rate of 9.4%. Most of the population speaks German  (95.8%), with English being second most common ( 0.6%) and Serbo-Croatian being third ( 0.6%).

In the 2007 election the most popular party was the SVP which received 39.8% of the vote. The next three most popular parties were the SPS (18.3%), the CSP (12.9%) and the Green Party (11.4%).

The age distribution of the population is children and teenagers (0–19 years old) make up 27% of the population, while adults (20–64 years old) make up 63% and seniors (over 64 years old) make up 10%. In Schleinikon about 84% of the population (between age 25-64) have completed either non-mandatory upper secondary education or additional higher education (either university or a Fachhochschule).

Schleinikon has an unemployment rate of 0.92%. , there were 45 people employed in the primary economic sector and about 18 businesses involved in this sector. 24 people are employed in the secondary sector and there are 6 businesses in this sector. 34 people are employed in the tertiary sector, with 13 businesses in this sector.

title: Schleinikon


text:
Ancient universities of Scotland

The ancient universities of Scotland (Oilthighean ann an Alba) are medieval and renaissance universities that continue to exist in the present day. Together, the four universities are the oldest universities in continuous operation in the English-speaking world after the universities of Oxford and Cambridge. The majority of the ancient universities of the British Isles are located within Scotland, and have a number of distinctive features in common, being governed by a series of measures laid down in the Universities (Scotland) Acts 1858–1966. The Universities (Scotland) Act 1966 uses the term 'older universities' to refer to St Andrews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. The four universities are generally regarded as the country's most selective, eminent and well-ranked universities.

In common with the other ancient universities of the United Kingdom, the Scottish ancients find themselves administered in a quite different fashion from the new universities (there are now fifteen universities in Scotland) and are granted a number of privileges as a result of their different status. The ancient universities are part of twenty-seven culturally significant institutions recognised by the British monarchy as privileged bodies of the United Kingdom.

Foundation and development
The surviving ancient universities in Scotland are, in order of formation:

St Andrews

The University of St Andrews traces its origin to a society formed in 1410 by Laurence of Lindores, archdeacon Richard Cornwall, bishop William Stephenson and others. Bishop Henry Wardlaw (died 1440) issued a charter in 1411 and attracted the most learned men in Scotland as professors. In 1413 Avignon Pope Benedict XIII issued six bulls confirming the charter and constituting the society a university.

All of the ancient universities with the exception of St Andrews were both universities and colleges, with both titles being used. However the University of St Andrews was a traditional collegiate university with a number of colleges. Today, only two statutory colleges exist: United College and the much smaller St Mary's College for students of theology.

In 1897 a third college was created when University College Dundee (founded in 1891) was incorporated and absorbed into St Andrews University (1897). University College subsequently became Queen's College (1954). In 1978 Queen's College separated from the University of St Andrews to become the independent University of Dundee. A fourth non-statutory college, St Leonard's College was founded in 1972 using the name of an earlier institution as a formal grouping of postgraduate students. In 2022, the university announced its intention to found New College, which would form a new hub for the schools of economics and finance, international relations, and management.

Glasgow

The University of Glasgow was founded in 1451 by a charter or papal bull from Pope Nicholas V, at the suggestion of King James II, giving Bishop William Turnbull, a graduate of the University of St Andrews, permission to add a university to the city's Cathedral. It is the second-oldest university in Scotland after St Andrews and the fourth-oldest in the English-speaking world. The universities of St Andrews, Glasgow, and Aberdeen were ecclesiastical foundations, while Edinburgh was a civic foundation. As one of the ancient universities of the United Kingdom, Glasgow is one of only eight institutions to award undergraduate master's degrees in certain disciplines.

Aberdeen

No college is mentioned in the foundation bill, only a university and it was the "University of Aberdeen" by that name which was established in 1495. Subsequently, a single college, originally known as St. Mary of the Nativity, was established (it was founded by William Elphinstone, Bishop of Aberdeen, who drafted a request on behalf of King James IV to Pope Alexander VI which resulted in a papal bull being issued). Soon the entity came to be called King's College, after its royal founder James IV.

A separate university (Marischal College) was founded in 1593. In 1860, King's merged with Marischal College. While both institutions were universities and would be considered ancient, the Act of Parliament uniting the two specified that the date of the foundation of the new united university would be taken to be that of the older King's College.

Aberdeen was highly unusual at this time for having two universities in one city: as 20th-century university prospectuses observed, Aberdeen had the same number as existed in England at the time (the University of Oxford and University of Cambridge). In addition, Fraserburgh University was set up to the north of Aberdeen in Fraserburgh in 1595, but was closed down about a decade later. A further institute that was established in 1750 under the wishes of Robert Gordon, a wealthy University of Aberdeen alumnus, has since evolved into the modern Robert Gordon University.

Edinburgh

Founded by the Edinburgh Town Council, the university began as a college of law using part of a legacy left by a graduate of the University of St Andrews, Bishop Robert Reid of St Magnus Cathedral, Orkney. The university was established by a royal charter granted by James VI in April 1582, and instruction began under the charge of theologian Robert Rollock in October 1583. As the first Scottish university to be founded by royal charter at the urging of the 'town council and burges of Edinburgh', rather than through papal bulls as had been the case for the three older universities, this set a new precedent. Despite this difference, it is universally considered one of the seven ancient universities of Britain and Ireland (and ten years older than the youngest ancient university, the Trinity College Dublin), a status affirmed by the Scottish Government.

University of Dundee
The University of Dundee gained independent university status by Royal Charter in 1967, having previously been a college of the University of St Andrews. While not governed by the Universities (Scotland) Acts, the institution's Royal Charter provided for it to adopt the characteristics of ancient university governance such as the academic senate, awarding the undergraduate MA degree and electing a Rector.

As a consequence, some sources have grouped the University of Dundee among the ancient universities. The label has also been used by the university itself. In a Scottish Government report published in 2019, Dundee is classified as a 'Chartered' university, alongside Strathclyde, Heriot-Watt, and Stirling, as opposed to an 'Ancient' university.

At the installation of the university's Rector in 2007, the Principal and Vice Chancellor Sir Alan Langlands addressed the issue, noting: "'The position of Rector is something that Dundee shares with only four other universities in Scotland - the so-called 'Ancient Universities'. For Dundee to be classed with the 'ancients' - at a relatively youthful age of forty - feels a bit like finding someone getting up to offer you their seat on the bus when you feel that you are still a bit on the young side. But we accept this 'ancient' tag, with grace, as a mark of our history and distinction and a reinforcement of the University's commitment to student representation at levels.'"

University of Aberdeen
Despite being held as an ancient university, the University of Aberdeen was only created in 1860. The university was formed by the amalgamation of two existing ancient universities within Aberdeen, which were:
 * University and King's College of Aberdeen; founded 1495
 * Marischal College and University of Aberdeen; founded 1593

The two universities, generally known simply as King's College and Marischal College, were united into the modern University of Aberdeen by the Universities (Scotland) Act 1858. The Act of Parliament uniting the two universities specified that the date of the foundation of the new united university would be taken to be that of the older King's College, 1495. Another, short-lived, university existed in the Aberdeenshire town of Fraserburgh from 1595 to 1605 (University of Fraserburgh).

In modern times, former college names may refer to specific university buildings, such as the King's College and Marischal College buildings in Aberdeen, the Old College and New College at Edinburgh and the 'Old College' to refer to the former buildings of the University of Glasgow before its move in the 19th century to Gilmorehill.

Undergraduate Master of Arts degree
The ancient universities are distinctive in offering the Magister Artium/Master of Arts (M.A.) as an undergraduate academic degree. This is sometimes known as the Scottish MA, though it is offered by fewer than a third of Scotland's Universities.

Universities (Scotland) Acts
The Universities (Scotland) Acts created a distinctive system of governance for the ancient universities in Scotland, the process beginning with the 1858 Act and ending with the 1966 Act. Despite not being founded until after the first in these series of Acts, the University of Dundee shares all the features contained therein.

As a result of these Acts, each of these universities is governed by a tripartite system of General Council, University Court, and Academic Senate.

The chief executive and chief academic is the University Principal who also holds the title of Vice-Chancellor as an honorific. The Chancellor is a titular non-resident head to each university and is elected for life by the respective General Council, although in actuality a good number of Chancellors resign before the end of their "term of office".

Each also has a students' representative council (SRC) as required by statute, although at the University of Aberdeen this has recently been renamed, the Students' Association Council (the Students' Association having been the parent body of the SRC).

Student body
In the 2021–22 academic year, 112,615 students were enrolled at the four institutions: 44,735 were from Scotland (39.7%), 22,325 from the rest of the United Kingdom (19.8%) and 45,555 were from overseas (40.5%).

The Scottish Government enforces a quota on the number of undergraduate places available for students from Scotland and as a result, entry to the four universities are selective. Entrance typically requires strong performances in standardised exams as represented by the average scores of new entrants when converted to UCAS points. All four universities were in the top ten British universities by entry standards for 2021 entry with St Andrews: 1st, Glasgow: joint 3rd (along with Cambridge), Edinburgh: 7th and Aberdeen: joint 10th (along with Durham).

Students from private education are over-represented at the ancient universities with the four universities hosting the highest proportion of privately educated students out of all Scottish universities in 2020/21 (St Andrews: 36.9%, Edinburgh: 35.5%, Glasgow: 16.1% and Aberdeen: 15.8%). St Andrews' and Edinburgh's higher proportion of private school students are due to the two universities recruiting "substantial numbers of students from the rest of the United Kingdom, many of whom come from prosperous English families and attended private schools" according to a report commissioned for the Scottish Government. In Scotland, around 4 per cent of the school-age population attend private schools and 11 per cent of all higher education students in Scottish institutions have attended private schools.

Funding and finances
The total annual income for the ancient universities for 2022–23 was £2.87 billion of which £663.2 million was from research grants and contracts, with an operating surplus of £331.7 million. The universities hold a total endowment value of £967.6 million and net assets of £4.47 billion. £520.5 million was received from the Scottish Funding Council via grants and £94.1 million was received from tuition fees of students domiciled in Scotland. Further tuition fees of £145.6 million was received from students from the rest of the United Kingdom and £859.3 million was received from overseas students. The table below is a record of each ancient universities' financial data for the 2022–23 financial year:

Rankings and reputation
In the 2024 national league table rankings, the ancient universities of Scotland are placed within the top twenty in both of The Guardian University Guide and in The Times/Sunday Times Good University Guide. In the 2024 global rankings, three of the ancient universities featured in the world's top 200 universities in both of the QS and the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Criticism
The ancient universities have faced criticism for their inability to attract more students from disadvantaged backgrounds. In 2014, approximately 48 per cent of the undergraduate population at the four universities comprises Scottish students, with over half of them having received their education from independent schools in Scotland. 71 per cent of independent school entrants gained a place in one of the four ancient universities, compared with only 29 per cent of state school entrants. In addition, fewer than one in seven students at the four ancient universities in Scotland are from working-class backgrounds. Alumni dominate the top levels of the civil service, law, politics, and media. Notably, more than half of Scotland's top media professionals and 46 per cent of the country's MPs are alumni of these universities. Graduates from the ancients hold a greater influence in the Scottish Government, with 90 per cent of cabinet members and 70 per cent of all ministers having attended one of the ancients. This has prompted claims of elitism, social division and the universities being less inclusive.

Following increasing pressures to address widening access concerns, in 2019, the Scottish Government ordered universities to create lower admissions thresholds for applicants from disadvantaged backgrounds. Alex Massie of The Times has commented that the new widening access targets for Scotland-domiciled students have now meant that there is "no chance" of admission into competitive courses at the ancient universities unless Scottish applicants have a widening access flag in their application. Scotland’s Commissioner for Fair Access, Sir Peter Scott, had previously stated that middle-class Scottish students with strong academic results had "no entitlement" to enter ancient universities. Concerns over the Scottish Government's approach to funding has also led to accusations that the ancients are incentivised to attract students from the rest of the United Kingdom and from overseas, with all ancient universities of Scotland amongst the most reliant universities in the UK for teaching income from international students.

For the 2016-17 admissions cycle, ancient universities were criticised for the number of clearing places they had for Scottish students. Edinburgh offered 130 courses to students from the rest of the United Kingdom, but only one to Scottish students. Similarly, Aberdeen only offered one course in clearing for Scottish students but 79 for the rest of the UK, while Glasgow offered 5 and 497 courses respectively. St Andrews did not participate in clearing and offered no courses to either Scottish students or students from the rest of the UK.

Later universities
Following the creation of the ancient universities before the end of the 16th century, no other universities were formed in Scotland until the twentieth century. The first 'new university' of the era was the University of Strathclyde which received its royal charter in 1964, although it traces its origins back to the Andersonian Institute (also known at various times as Anderson's College and Anderson's University) founded in 1796.

title: Ancient universities of Scotland