text:
List of mountains in Australia

This is a list of mountains in Australia.

List of mountains in Australia by topographic prominence
This is a list of the top 50 mountains in Australia ranked by topographic prominence. Most of these peaks are the highest point in their areas.

Australian Capital Territory
The following is a list of mountains and prominent hills in the Australian Capital Territory in order, from the highest peak to the lowest peak, for those mountains and hills with an elevation above 750 m :

New South Wales
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Barrington Tops

 * Mountains located within the Barrington Tops
 * Brumlow Tops, at 1586 m
 * Mount Polblue, at 1575 m
 * Mount Barrington, at 1555 m
 * Careys Peak, at 1544 m
 * Mount Royal, at 1185 m
 * Mount Allyn, at 1125 m
 * Mount Cabrebald, at 1000 m

Blue Mountains

 * Mountains located within the Blue Mountains
 * Mount Coricudgy, at 1255 m
 * Mount Pomany, at 1109 m
 * Mount Piddington, at 1094 m
 * Mount Boyce, at 1093 m
 * Mount Banks, at 1062 m
 * Mount York, at 1061 m
 * Mount Victoria, at 1059 m

 * Mount Tomah, at 1016 m
 * Mount Wilson, at 1008 m
 * Narrow Neck, at 1000 m
 * Kings Tableland, at 1000 m
 * Castle Cliff, at 986 m
 * Mount Solitary, at 950 m
 * Mount Hay, at 944 m
 * Podgers, at 890 m
 * Mount Irvine, at 850 m
 * Mount Debert, at 840 m
 * Camp Cave Hill, at 800 m
 * Warrigal Hill, at 760 m
 * Notts Hill, at 750 m
 * Harris Hill, at 736 m
 * Centre Mount, at 620 m
 * Mount Hall, at 617 m
 * Mount Gibson, at 608 m
 * Scorpion Hill, at 558 m
 * Linda Rock, at 599 m
 * Mount Cookem, at 569 m
 * Gospers Mountain
 * Mount Bedford
 * Mount Cameron
 * Mount Coriaday
 * Mount Erskine
 * Mount Mistake
 * Mount Monundilla
 * Mount Whaite
 * Mount Wirraba
 * Pearces Mountain

Budawang Range

 * Mountains located within the Budawang Range
 * Pigeon House Mountain, at 720 m

Gibraltar Range

 * Mountains located within the Gibraltar Range
 * The Summit 1170 m

Great Dividing Range

 * Mountains located within the Great Dividing Range in New South Wales

Central Tablelands

 * Mountains located within the Central Tablelands
 * Mount Canobolas, at 1395 m
 * Mount Bindo, at 1363 m
 * Mount Trickett, at 1362 m
 * Manna Mountain, at 438 m
 * Mount Hopeless

Mid North Coast region

 * Mountains located within the Mid North Coast region
 * Mount Banda Banda, at 1258 m
 * Big Nellie Mountain

Monaro region

 * Mountains located within the Monaro region
 * Brown Mountain, at 1243 m

Illawarra escarpment

 * Mountains located within the Illawarra escarpment
 * Bells Hill, at 803 m
 * Knights Hill, at 709 m
 * Noorinan Mountain, at 663 m
 * Saddleback Mountain, at 600 m
 * Wanyambilli Hill, at 564 m
 * Mount Kembla, at 534 m
 * Burelli Mountain, at 531 m
 * Mount Kembla West, at 512 m
 * Mount Brisbane, at 469 m
 * Mount Keira, at 464 m
 * Warra Mountain, at 464 m
 * Brokers Nose, at 440 m
 * Mount Nebo, at 252 m

Liverpool Range

 * Mountains located within the Liverpool Range
 * Crawney Mountain, at 1446 m
 * Wombramurra Mountain, at 1418 m
 * Bald Hill (NSW), at 1280 m
 * Mount Temi, at 1256 m
 * East Bluff, at 1240 m
 * Mount Tingaroo, at 1224 m
 * Towarri Mountain, at 1140 m
 * Mount Moan, at 1130 m
 * Wedding Cake Peak, at 1022 m

Lord Howe Island

 * Mountains located on Lord Howe Island
 * Mount Gower, at 875 m
 * Mount Lidgbird, at 777 m
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McPherson Range

 * Mountains located within the McPherson Range
 * Mount Barney, at 1359 m
 * Haystack Mountain (New South Wales)

Moonbi Range

 * Mountains located within the Moonbi Range
 * Black Jack Mountain, at 1323 m
 * Mount Gulligal, at 1243 m
 * Den Mountain, at 1120 m

Nandewar Range

 * Mountains located within the Nandewar Range
 * Mount Kaputar, at 1508 m
 * Mount Dowe, at 1457 m
 * Mount Coryah, at 1409 m
 * Mount Lindesay, at 1373 m
 * Grattai Mountain, at 1301 m
 * Bushy Mountain, at 1250 m
 * Round Mountain, at 1250 m
 * Mount Yulludunida, at 1225 m
 * Castle Top Mountain, at 1120 m
 * Gins Mountain, at 1120 m
 * Mount Ningadhun, at 1013 m

New England Tableland

 * Mountains located within the New England Tableland
 * Round Mountain, at 1585 m
 * Point Lookout, at 1564 m
 * The Brothers (Ben Lomond), at 1509 m
 * Mount Rumbee, at 1506 m
 * Ben Lomond (New South Wales), at 1505 m
 * The Magistrate (Capoompeta), at 1502 m
 * Big Mount Spirabo, at 1491 m
 * Mount Duncan (New South Wales), at 1478 m
 * Mount Mitchell (New South Wales), at 1476 m
 * Chandlers Peak, at 1473 m
 * Mount Grundy, at 1463 m
 * Mount Bajimba, at 1445 m
 * Mount Hyland, at 1434 m
 * Mount Duval, at 1393 m
 * Mount MacKenzie, at 1287 m
 * Cunglebung Mountain, at 1035 m
 * Bolivia Hill, at 1010 m

Nightcap Range

 * Mountains located within the Nightcap Range
 * Mount Burrell, at 933 m
 * Mount Neville, at 919 m
 * Mount Nardi, at 812 m
 * Mount Matheson, at 804 m
 * Peates Mountain, at 604 m

Snowy Mountains

 * Mountains located within the Snowy Mountains in New South Wales
 * Mount Kosciuszko, at 2228 m (Highest mountain on the mainland)
 * Mount Townsend, at 2209 m (Second highest mountain on the mainland)
 * Mount Twynam, at 2196 m (Third highest)
 * Rams Head, at 2190 m (Fourth highest)
 * Unnamed peak on Etheridge Ridge, at 2180 m (Fifth highest)
 * Rams Head North, at 2177 m (Sixth highest)
 * Alice Rawson Peak, at 2160 m (Seventh highest)
 * Byatts Camp, at 2159 m (Eighth highest)
 * Carruthers Peak, at 2145 m (Equal ninth highest)
 * Abbott Peak, at 2145 m (Equal ninth highest)
 * Mount Northcote, at 2131 m (Eleventh highest)
 * Muellers Peak, at 2120 m
 * Watsons Crags, at 2020 m
 * Little Twynam, at 2120 m
 * Mount Clark, at 2100 m
 * Mount Lee, at 2100 m
 * Gungartan, at 2068 m (Equal eighteenth highest)
 * Mount Tate, at 2068 m (Equal eighteenth highest)
 * Mount Jagungal, at 2061 m (Twentieth highest)
 * Mount Perisher, at 2054 m
 * Mount Stilwell, at 2040 m
 * Back Perisher Mountain, at 2014 m
 * Mount Anton, at 2000 m
 * Mount Anderson, at 1997 m
 * Blue Cow Mountain, at 1994 m
 * The Granite Peaks, at 1980 m
 * Dicky Cooper Bogong, at 1980 m
 * Gills Knobs, at 1940 m
 * Guthega Peak, at 1924 m
 * Blue Calf Mountain, at 1905 m
 * Mount Sentinel, at 1900 m
 * Mount Piper, at 1830 m

Sugarloaf Range

 * Mountains located within the Sugarloaf Range
 * Mount Sugarloaf, at 412 m

Tweed Range

 * Mountains located within the Tweed Range
 * Mount Warning, at 1156 m
 * Bar Mountain, at 1130 m
 * Glenugie Peak, at 316 m
 * Mount Gladstone
 * Mount Goobergooberyam
 * Mount Moombil
 * Dome Mountain, Kyogle

Warrumbungles

 * Mountains located within the Warrumbungles
 * Mount Exmouth, at 1206m
 * Siding Spring Mountain, at 1165 m
 * Wedding Cake Mountain, at 1025 m

Other mountains

 * Mountains located within New South Wales, but not within a specific mountain range
 * Mount Gibraltar, at 863 m
 * Mount Chincogan at 309 m
 * Mount Clayton, at 378 m
 * Mount Alexandra
 * Mount Jellore
 * Ninety Acre Hill
 * Mount Gulaga, at 806 m
 * Mount Oxley, at 307 m
 * Mount Tilga, at 329 m
 * Mount Ulandra, at 761 m
 * }

Queensland
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South East Queensland

 * Black Mountain, Queensland
 * Camp Mountain
 * Cooroy Mountain
 * Mount Coolum (208m)
 * Mount Cooroora (439m)
 * Mount Cotton
 * Mount Crosby
 * Mount Doongul
 * Mount Gravatt
 * Mount Ninderry
 * Mount Petrie
 * Whites Hill (120m)
 * Darlington Range
 * Pyramid Rock (678m)
 * Laheys Tabletop (663m)
 * Tamborine Mountain (578m)
 * Mount Wongwallan (377m)
 * Mount Stapylton (152m)
 * Flinders Peak Group
 * Flinders Peak / Aboriginal: Booroongapah (680m)
 * Mount Joyce (469m)
 * Mount Blaine (455m)
 * Mount Goolman (453m)
 * Mount Elliot (437m)
 * Spring Mountain (355m)
 * D'Aguilar Range
 * Tenison Woods Mountain (770m)
 * The Summit (765m)
 * Mount D'Aguilar (745m)
 * Mount Samson (690m)
 * Northbrook (659m)
 * Mount Glorious (619m)
 * Mount Nebo (617)
 * Mount Byron (617m)
 * Mount Jim Sue (610m)
 * The Bulls Knob (563m)
 * Mount O'Reilly (526m)
 * Mount Archer (526m)
 * Mount Pleasant (525m)
 * Neurum Mountain (507m)
 * Mount Mee (498m)
 * Mount Lawson (414m)
 * Camp Mountain (414m)
 * Mermaid Mountain (396m)
 * Taylor Range
 * Mount Coot-tha (287m)
 * Enoggera Hill (283m)
 * Constitution Hill (263m)
 * Mount Coot-Tha (226m)
 * Teviot Range
 * Mount Moon / Aboriginal: Kibbobum (786m)
 * Mount Alford (521m)
 * Moogerah Peaks
 * Mount French / Aboriginal: Bunjurgen (579m)
 * Mount Edwards (630 m)
 * Mount Greville / Aboriginal: Meebatboogan (772m)
 * Mount Moon / Aboriginal: Kibbobum (786m)
 * Minto Crags, / Aboriginal: Whinpullin' (331 m)
 * McPherson Range
 * Mount Barney (1,358 m)
 * Mount Ballow / Aboriginal: Wahlmoorum (1,313 m)
 * Double Peak (1250 m)
 * Bithongabel (1199 m)
 * Mount Toolona (1190 m)
 * Mount Wanungara (1189 m)
 * Mount Lindesay (1,175 m)
 * Mount Hobwee (1164 m)
 * Mount Throakban (1156 m)
 * Mount Clunie / Aboriginal: Mormgurra (1,155 m)
 * Mount Worendo (1153 m)
 * Mount Merino (1148 m)
 * Point Lookout (1091 m)
 * Cominan (1059 m)
 * Mount Maroon (966 m)
 * Mount Ernest (964 m)
 * Springbrook Mountain (948 m)
 * Mount Westray (887 m)
 * Mount May (836 m)
 * Mount Cougal (West Peak) (724 m)
 * Main Range
 * Mount Superbus (1,372 m)
 * Mount Roberts (1,327 m)
 * Wilsons Peak / Aboriginal: Jirramen (1,229 m)
 * Mount Asplenium (1,292 m)
 * Mount Huntley (1,262 m)
 * Panorama Point (1,255 m)
 * Spicers Peak / Aboriginal: Binkinjoora (1222 m)
 * Mount Steamer (1,215 m)
 * Lizard Point (1,200 m)
 * Mount Mitchell / Aboriginal: Cooyinnirra (1,175 m)
 * Sentinel Point (1,175 m)
 * Bare Rock (1,168 m)
 * Double Top (1,150 m)
 * Mount Cordeaux / Aboriginal: Niamboyoo (1,144 m)
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 * Glass House Mountains
 * Mount Beerburrum, (276 m)
 * Mount Beerwah, (555 m)
 * Mount Coochin, (235 m)
 * Mount Cooee, (177 m)
 * Mount Coonowrin or Crookneck, (377 m)
 * Mount Elimbah, (129 m)
 * Mount Miketeebumulgrai, (202 m)
 * Mount Ngungun, (253 m)
 * Mount Tibberoowuccum, (220 m)
 * Mount Tibrogargan, (364 m)
 * Mount Tunbubudla or the Twins, (322 and 296 m)
 * Wild Horse Mountain, (123 m)
 * The Saddleback, (125 m)
 * Round Mountain, (97 m)
 * Northern Tablelands
 * Mount Norman (1,267 m)
 * First Pyramid
 * Second Pyramid
 * Bald Rock
 * South Bald Rock
 * Blackall Range
 * Carnarvon Range
 * Consuelo Peak (1174m)
 * Mount Sugarloaf (1154m)
 * Mount Percy (1151m)
 * Mount Rugged (1130m)
 * Conondale Range
 * Mount Langley (868m)
 * Mount Ramsden (800m)
 * Mount Gerald (800m)
 * Summer Mountain (786m)
 * Mistake Mountains
 * Mount Mistake (998m)
 * Mount Haldon (906m)
 * Point Pure (892m)
 * Mount Zahel (880m)
 * Mount William (843m)
 * Little Liverpool Range
 * Mount Castle (969m)
 * Kangaroo Mountain (755m)
 * Grass Tree Knob (751m)
 * The Pinnacle (901m)
 * Mount Beau Brummell (701m)
 * Mount Grandchester (347m)

Central and North Queensland
mountain in Queensland)
 * Mount Archer (604m)
 * Mount Blackwood
 * Mount Bowen (1,121m) High point Hinchinbrook Island
 * Mount Cook (493m) High point Magnetic Island
 * Mount Dalrymple (1,259m)
 * Mount Elliot (1,234m)
 * Mount Emerald
 * Mount Fisher (1,385m) Millaa Millaa
 * Mount Inkerman
 * Mount Jim Crow
 * Mount Larcom
 * Mount Mort
 * Mount Mulligan (Ngarrabullgan)
 * Mount Myrtle
 * Mount Pieter Botte
 * Mount Tempest
 * Thornton Peak (1,374m)
 * Walshs Pyramid
 * Mount Warrumbullen
 * Mount Westall
 * Mount Wheeler (365m)
 * Bellenden Ker Range
 * Mount Bartle Frere (1,622 m) (Highest
 * Mount Bellenden Ker (1,593 m)
 * Lamb Range
 * Lambs Head (Kahlpahlim Rock)
 * Basilisk Range
 * Mount Tyson
 * Mount Mackay
 * Cardwell Range
 * Hervey Range

Darling Downs

 * Bunya Mountains
 * Mount Kiangarow (1154m)
 * Mount Mowbullan (1104m)
 * Haly Mountain (957m)
 * The Pinnacle (901m)
 * Mount Marlay
 * }

South Australia
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Eyre Peninsula

 * Eyre Peninsula
 * Mount Hill at 450 m
 * Darke Peak at 477 m

Flinders Ranges

 * Flinders Ranges
 * St Mary Peak (Ngarri Mudlanha), at 1169 m
 * Pompeys Pillar, at 1168 m
 * Point Bonney, at 1158 m
 * Beatrice Hill (Wilkalanha), at 1148 m
 * Mount Aleck (Urdlu-warlpunha), at 1095 m
 * Mount Hack, at 1086 m
 * Mount Tilley, at 1018 m
 * Patawarta Hill, at 1015 m
 * Mount Boorong
 * Mount Karawarra
 * Harold Hill
 * Beacon Hill, at 1003 m
 * Rawnsley Bluff, at 950 m
 * Mount Brown, at 970 m
 * Mount Remarkable, at 960 m
 * Mount Caernarvon, at 921 m
 * Mount Hayward, at 865 m
 * Mount Arden, at 844 m
 * The Dutchmans Stern, at 820 m
 * Moockra Tower, at 758 m
 * Devils Peak, at 675 m
 * Wonoka Hill, at 630 m
 * Mount Chambers, at 409 m

Gammon Ranges

 * Gammon Ranges
 * Benbonyathe Hill, at 1064 m
 * Mount McKinlay (Wayanha), at 1050 m
 * Gammon Hill, at 1012 m
 * Freeling Heights, at 944 m
 * Mount Serle, at 912 m
 * Mount Rowe, at 900 m
 * Mount John Roberts, at 880 m
 * Cleft Peak, at 850 m
 * Mount Painter, at 765 m
 * The Armchair, at 700 m
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Gawler Ranges

 * Gawler Ranges
 * Paney Bluff, at 436 m
 * Mount Wudinna, at 260 m

Mount Lofty Ranges

 * Mount Lofty Ranges
 * Mount Bryan, at 936 m
 * Mount Lofty, at 720 m
 * New Campbell Hill, at 710 m
 * Mount Bonython, at 700 m
 * Kaiserstuhl, at 600 m
 * Mount Crawford, at 560 m
 * Mount Misery, at 560 m
 * Mount Barker, at 520 m
 * Peters Hill, at 518 m

Musgrave Ranges

 * Musgrave Ranges
 * Mount Woodroffe, at 1435 m (highest peak in SA)
 * Mount Charles, at 1332 m
 * Mount Morris, at 1285 m
 * Mount Whinham, at 1228 m
 * Mount Berry, at 1227 m
 * Mount Woodward, at 1224 m
 * Mount Edwin, at 1193 m
 * Mount Spec (Kali-Kalinya), at 1186 m
 * Mount Davenport, at 1135 m
 * Mount Everard (Uwalinyi), at 1083 m
 * Mount Kintore, at 1066 m
 * McNamara Hill (Marnilytjanya), at 1064 m
 * Mount Hardy, at 1061 m
 * Mount Davies, at 1053 m
 * Ayliffe Hill (Altjinytjanya), at 1041 m
 * Mount Caroline (Ulkiyanya), at 1039 m
 * Mount Cuthbert (Atarkanya), at 1030 m
 * Mount Cooparinna, at 1014 m
 * Dulgunja Hill, at 1009 m
 * Gosse Pile, at 1002 m
 * }

Victoria
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Victorian Alps
(1241 m)
 * Mountains located within the Victorian Alps
 * Mount Bogong (1986 m) (Highest mountain in the state)
 * Mount Feathertop (1922 m) (Second highest mountain in the state)
 * Bogong High Plains
 * Mount Nelse West (1893 m)
 * Mount Loch (1887 m)
 * Mount Nelse North (1884 m)
 * Mount Fainter South (1883 m)
 * Mount Nelse (1882 m)
 * Mount Hotham (1862 m)
 * Mount McKay, at 1849 m
 * Mount Cope (1837 m)
 * Spion Kopje (1837 m)
 * Mount Jim (1818 m)
 * Cobberas Range
 * Mount Cobberas No. 1 (1833 m)
 * Mount Cobberas No. 2
 * Moscow Peak
 * Middle Peak
 * Cleft Peak
 * Buller-Howitt Region
 * Mount Buller (1805 m)
 * Mount Stirling (1749 m)
 * Mount Howitt (1742 m)
 * Mount Magdala (1725 m)
 * The Bluff (1725 m)
 * King Billy No. 1 (1716 m)
 * King Billy No. 2 (1696 m)
 * Mount Clear (1695 m)
 * Mount Speculation (1666 m)
 * Mount Cobbler (1628 m)
 * Mount McDonald (1620 m)
 * Mount Buggery (Alpine Shire) (1583 - 1598 m)
 * Mount Koonika (1594 m)
 * The Viking (1519 m)
 * Mount Despair (1460 m)
 * Eagles Peaks (1446 m)
 * Moroka-Tarli Karng Region
 * Mount Reynard (1705 m)
 * Mount Wellington (1634 m)
 * Mount Tamboritha (1509 m)
 * Long Hill (1290 m)
 * Mount Ligar (The Crinoline) (1165 m)
 * Cathedral Range
 * The Green Hill
 * Sugarloaf Peak (923 m)
 * Cathedral Peak (845 m)
 * Mount Wills (1755 m)
 * Mount Porepunkah (1178 m)
 * The Horn at Mount Buffalo (1723 m)
 * Mount Gibbo (1750 m)
 * The Hump at Mount Buffalo (1695 m)
 * Mount Baw Baw (1567 m)
 * Mount Torbreck (1516 m)
 * Mount St Gwinear (1509 m)
 * Mount Benambra (1480 m)
 * Lake Mountain (1433 m)
 * Mount Selma (1456 m)
 * Mount Useful (1435 m)
 * Mount Tambo (1430 m)
 * Little Mount Tambo (1277 m)
 * Mount Selwyn (1411 m)
 * Mount Matlock (1377 m)
 * Mount Terrible (1325 m)
 * Mount Donna Buang (1250 m)
 * Mount Buggery (Wangaratta) (1153 m)
 * Pine Mountain (1062 m)
 * Mount Dom Dom (740 m)
 * Brumby Point
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Grampians

 * Mountains located within the Grampians
 * Mount William (1167 m)
 * Durd-Durd (1167 m)
 * Red Man Bluff (1017 m)
 * Mount Rosea (1006 m)
 * Mount Thackeray (979 m)
 * The Fortress (875 m)
 * Mount Abrupt (827 m)
 * Mount Difficult (806 m)
 * Sundial Peak (802 m)
 * Briggs Bluff (420 m)
 * Mount Stapylton (518 m)
 * Mount Wilson
 * Mount Zero (364 m)
 * Hollow Mountain

 Ballarat and surrounding Highlands
 * Mount Buninyong (746 m)
 * Mount Warrenheip (740 m)
 * Mount Franklin (648 m)
 * Mount Beckworth (634 m)

Other Victorian mountains

 * Mountains located within Victoria not within a range
 * Mount Ritchie (1259 m)
 * Mount Toorongo (1247 m)
 * Mount Horsfall (1130 m)
 * Camels Hump (1011 m)
 * Mount Kaye (998 m)
 * Mount Buangor (986 m)
 * Mount Elizabeth (941 m)
 * Langi Ghiran (949 m)
 * Mount Riddell (805 m)
 * Mount Disappointment (794 m)
 * Mount Beenak (745 m)
 * Mount Alexander (744 m)
 * Hanging Rock / Mount Diogenes (718 m)
 * Mount Dandenong (633 m)
 * Corhanwarrabul (628 m)
 * Mount Tarrengower (556 m)
 * Mount Warrenmang (526 m)
 * Mount Napier (440 m)
 * Mount Arapiles (369 m)
 * Flinders Peak (364 m)
 * Mount Noorat (310 m)
 * Mount Warrnambool (216 m)
 * Mount Wycheproof (148 m)
 * Mount Cooper (137 m)
 * Mount Eccles (178 m or 5083 ft)
 * Mount Elephant (380 m or 1,250 ft)
 * Mount Hopeless
 * Mount Leura
 * Mount Sugarloaf (Camperdown, Victoria)
 * Mount Typo
 * Mount Strathbogie (1045 m)
 * }

Western Australia

 * Carnarvon Range
 * Mount Augustus (1105m)
 * Mount Beadell
 * Darling Range
 * Mount Dale
 * Mount Cooke
 * Hamersley Range
 * Mount Meharry (at 1,249 metres above sea level, the highest peak in Western Australia)
 * Mount Bruce (1,221 m; the second highest peak in WA)
 * Mount Nameless/Jarndunmunha 1,115 m
 * Wunaamin Miliwundi Ranges, formerly King Leopold Ranges
 * Mount Lesueur
 * Porongurup Range
 * Stirling Range
 * Bluff Knoll (1,099m)
 * Toolbrunup (998m)
 * Mount Magog
 * Mount Trio
 * Mount Hassell
 * Talyuberlup Peak
 * Peak Charles National Park
 * Peak Charles
 * Peak Eleanora
 * West Mount Barren
 * East Mount Barren
 * Mount Wells (983m)
 * Mount Ord (947m)
 * Mount Teague
 * Mount Manypeaks

title: List of mountains in Australia


text:
Q-type asteroid

Q-type asteroids are relatively uncommon inner-belt asteroids with a strong, broad 1 micrometre olivine and pyroxene feature, and a spectral slope that indicates the presence of metal. There are absorption features shortwards and longwards of 0.7 μm, and the spectrum is generally intermediate between the V and S-type.

Q-type asteroids are spectrally more similar to ordinary chondrite meteorites (types H, L, LL) than any other asteroid type. This has led scientists to speculate that they are abundant, but only about 20 of this type has been characterized. Examples of Q-type asteroids are: 1862 Apollo, 2102 Tantalus, 3753 Cruithne, 6489 Golevka, and 9969 Braille.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Q-type asteroid


text:
Talk:Ulundi

Untitled
According to the Cultural History Museum's guide at Ondini, a Thami Richard Mhlophe, Ondini was the name of original village (royal kraal) destroyed by the British on 4 July 1879 and its meaning is high or elevated position which it certainly is, looking out over the plains below, which include the now town of Ulundi situated around the former battlefield of Ulundi on the Mahlabatini flats. According to him Ulundi in a corruption of the original name Ondini, and was first used by a trader that established a shop on the plains below and near the former battle field.

As an aside it is noted that the isiZulu or Zulu word "omndeni" means "of the family"; and it could mean it was the village of the number one family!

Pietermaritburg (the original Natal capital) re-took over the capital status from Ulundi when political power in KwaZulu-Natal changed from the Inkata Freedom Party (IFP) to the African National Congress (ANC). 41.240.44.140 (talk) 07:56, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Do not really like the first para - was the capital ? The kings kraal was there - capital is so culturally inappropriate.

Wikiwizzy

Ulundi is regarded as the traditional capital of Kwa-Zulu-Natal in the same way as Bulawayo is regarded as being the traditional capital of Matabeleland. - (Aidan Work 07:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC))

Shared capital status
Why did Ulundi lose this in 2004? Loganberry (Talk) 14:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Geography
Predominant economic activity 102.249.5.34 (talk) 18:46, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ulundi


text:
Red State

Red State may refer to:
 * Red state, a state in the United States with a tendency toward electing Republicans
 * Red State (2006 film), a documentary film by Michael Shea
 * Red State (2011 film), a film by Kevin Smith
 * RedState, an American political weblog aimed at Republicans and American conservatives

title: Red State


text:
Musselshell River

The Musselshell River is a tributary of the Missouri River, 341.9 mi long from its origins at the confluence of its North and South Forks near Martinsdale, Montana to its mouth on the Missouri River. It is located east of the Continental divide entirely within Montana in the United States. Counting its pre-confluence tributaries, it measures 425 - 500 mi in length.

It rises in several forks in the Crazy, Little Belt, and Castle mountains in central Montana. The main branch is formed by the confluence of the North Fork and South Fork in Meagher County, about 25 mi east of White Sulphur Springs, Montana, just east of Martinsdale, north of Martinsdale Reservoir, and just west of Meagher County's border with Wheatland County. The North Fork flows south from the Little Belt Mountains through Bair Reservoir, then southeast. The South Fork flows northeast from the Crazy Mountains. From the confluence of these two waterways, the main branch flows roughly due east past Two Dot, Harlowton, and Roundup, then turns north just past Melstone, and continues to the UL Bend on the Missouri River at the beginning of Fort Peck Reservoir.

The Musselshell River has also been known as: Cockkleshell River, Mahtush-ahzhah, Muscleshell River, Mustleshell River, Shell River. The Musselshell was entered by the Lewis and Clark Expedition on May 20, 1805 and named by them for the freshwater mussels lining the bank, noting in their journals that the Minnetare people had given the waterway a similar name. The Blackfeet, who hunted buffalo and prepared the meat for winter in the Musselshell area, called it the Dried Meat River.

Geography
The terrain varies from the mountainous island ranges where it originates to prairie. It is fed largely by snowmelt and has its highest flow rates in the spring and early summer. The Musselshell River Basin, including tributaries, drains 108268 acre. The South Fork has much brush, gravel bars, and clear water. The North Fork has willow trees and undercut banks. The Musselshell is about 60 ft wide at its confluence of the two forks. Three reservoirs built in the 1930s help control the river's flow: Bair Reservoir on the North Fork, Martinsdale Reservoir near the confluence, and Deadman's Basin on the main river between Shawmut and Ryegate. The river becomes wider in the 50 mi before Roundup. Honeysuckle, wild rose, willow, and cottonwood are common in this section. The river is about 100 ft wide in its last 90 mi, with increased choppiness and flow rate. The relatively more arid climate in this section results in less vegetation, more livestock grazing, and poorer soil. Additional tributaries of the Musselshell include: Middle Fork, Bozeman Fork, Dry Fork, American Creek Fork, Big Elk Creek, Careless Creek, Cottonwood Creek, Flat Willow Creek, Hopley Creek, Spring Creek, Swimming Woman Creek, and Willow Creek.

Usage
Recreational use of the Musselshell averages 63,000 visitor-days per year. Much of the water on the Musselshell is decreed water and managed by the Musselshell River Distribution Project. The Musselshell is used extensively for irrigation for farming and ranching and due to that may run dry or nearly dry in many sections during much of the summer and fall. Water supply is less in the lower basin due to the more arid climate and the fact that users in the upper basin have senior rights to the water. Fishing is popular along most parts of the Musselshell. Species of fish found on the North and/or South Forks down to Harlowton include: mountain whitefish, and brown, cutthroat, rainbow, and brook trout. The eastern part of the river has channel catfish, sauger, smallmouth bass, and walleye due to the warmer water caused by dewatering from irrigation and the arid climate shift from mountain to prairie ecosystems in the Musselshell's last 90 mi. There are three different species of freshwater mussels as well as crawdads.

The Gordon Butte Pumped Storage Project is a planned pumped hydroelectric power plant that will use water from the Cottonwood Creek, a Musselshell tributary.

Spring 2011 flood
There was major flooding on the Musselshell River in May 2011. On May 26 the flooding inundated portions of Roundup. Cresting and flow rate records were set along several sections of the river, such as Mosby and Shawmut, near Harlowton. The crest of the flood at 14.16 ft, more than 4 ft over flood state, exceeded the record previously set in 1975.

Legacy
The Musselshell region is where the last surviving herds of wild American buffalo lived. Zoologist William Temple Hornaday of the Smithsonian Institution harvested specimens from the region in 1886 so that future generations would know what the buffalo looked like. The Musselshell was mentioned by both Del Gue and Jeremiah Johnson in the film Jeremiah Johnson. The Musselshell is also mentioned in Larry McMurtry's classic 1985 novel Lonesome Dove. Roundup is home to the Musselshell Valley Historical Museum, which documents the region's history.

title: Musselshell River


text:
P-type asteroid

P-type asteroids are asteroids that have low albedo and a featureless reddish spectrum. It has been suggested that they have a composition of organic-rich silicates, carbon and anhydrous silicates, possibly with water ice in their interior. P-type asteroids are found in the outer asteroid belt and beyond. There are about 33 known P-type asteroids, depending on the classification, including 46 Hestia, 65 Cybele, 76 Freia, 87 Sylvia, 153 Hilda, 476 Hedwig and, in some classifications, 107 Camilla.

Taxonomy
An early system of asteroid taxonomy was established in 1975 from the doctoral thesis work of David J. Tholen. This was based upon observations of a group of 110 asteroids. The U-type classification was used as a miscellaneous class for asteroids with unusual spectra that did not fit into the C and S-type asteroid classifications. In 1976, some of these U-type asteroids with unusual moderate albedo levels were labeled as M-type.

Around 1981, an offshoot of the M-type asteroid branch appeared for minor planets that have spectra that are indistinguishable from M-type, but that also have low albedo not consistent with the M type. These were initially labeled X-type asteroids, then type DM (dark M) or PM (pseudo-M), before acquiring their own unique classification as P-type asteroids (where the P indicates "pseudo-M").

Properties
The P-type asteroids are some of the darkest objects in the Solar System with very low albedos (pv<0.1) and appear to be organic-rich, similar to carbonaceous chondrites. Their colors are somewhat redder than S-type asteroids and they do not show spectral features. The red coloration may be caused by organic compounds related to kerogen. The reflectance spectra of P-type asteroids can be reproduced through a combination of 31% CI and 49% CM groups of carbonaceous chondrite meteorites, plus 20% Tagish lake meteorites, after undergoing thermal metamorphism and space weathering.

The density of the only two well-characterized P-type asteroids, 87 Sylvia and 107 Camilla P-type asteroids appears to be low, at $1.3 g/cm3$ – lower even than C-type asteroids. It is not clear what this tells us about their compositions. Both Sylvia and Camilla have moons and indications that they have been be disrupted, but they are also quite massive, at over kg, and so are unlikely to have much internal porosity affecting their densities.

The outer part of the main asteroid belt beyond 2.6 AU from the Sun is dominated by low-albedo C, D and P-type asteroids. These are primitive asteroids that may have had their materials chemically altered by liquid water. There are 33 known P-type asteroids. In addition to this, P-type asteroids are thought to be found in the outer asteroid belt and beyond. The distribution of P-type asteroids peaks at an orbital distance of 4 AU.

title: P-type asteroid


text:
D-type asteroid

D-type asteroids have a very low albedo and a featureless reddish spectrum. It has been suggested that they have a composition of organic-rich silicates, carbon and anhydrous silicates, possibly with water ice in their interiors. D-type asteroids are found in the outer asteroid belt and beyond; examples are 152 Atala, 944 Hidalgo and most Jupiter trojans. It has been suggested that the Tagish Lake meteorite was a fragment from a D-type asteroid, and that the Martian moon Phobos is closely related.

The Nice model suggests that D-type asteroids may have originated in the Kuiper belt. 46 D-type asteroids are known, including: 3552 Don Quixote, 944 Hidalgo, 624 Hektor, and 10199 Chariklo.

Examples
A list of some of the largest D-type asteroids.

title: D-type asteroid


text:
G-type asteroid

G-type asteroids are a relatively uncommon type of carbonaceous asteroid that makes up approximately 5% of asteroids. The most notable asteroid in this class is 1 Ceres.

Characteristics
Generally similar to the C-type objects, but contain a strong ultraviolet absorption feature below 0.5 μm. An absorption feature around 0.7 μm may also be present, which is indicative of phyllosilicate minerals such as clays or mica.

In the SMASS classification the G-type corresponds to the Cgh and Cg types, depending on the presence or absence (respectively) of the absorption feature at 0.7 μm. The G-type, C-type and some rare types are sometimes collected together into a wider C-group of carbonaceous asteroids.

title: G-type asteroid


text:
B-type asteroid

B-type asteroids are a relatively uncommon type of carbonaceous asteroid, falling into the wider C-group; the 'B' indicates these objects are spectrally blue. In the asteroid population, B-class objects can be found in the outer asteroid belt, and also dominate the high-inclination Pallas family which includes the third-largest asteroid 2 Pallas. They are thought to be primitive, volatile-rich remnants from the early Solar System. There are 65 known B-type asteroids in the SMASS classification, and 9 in the Tholen classification as of March 2015.

Characteristics
Generally similar to the C-type objects, but differing in that the ultraviolet absorption below 0.5 μm is small or absent, and the spectrum is rather slightly bluish than reddish. The albedo also tends to be greater than in the generally very dark C type. Spectroscopy of B-class objects suggests major surface constituents of anhydrous silicates, hydrated clay minerals, organic polymers, magnetite, and sulfides. The closest matches to B-class asteroids have been obtained on carbonaceous chondrite meteorites that have been gently heated in the laboratory.

The majority of asteroids that have been observed to display cometary-like activity are B-types. Some of these objects display indications of aqueous alteration in the past, and they may have incorporated significant amounts of water ice.

Well studied B-type asteroids

Asteroid 101955 Bennu is a B-type asteroid which is the target of the OSIRIS-REx mission. The mission seeks to characterize the asteroid by mapping the surface, studying the Yarkovsky effect, and retrieving a sample of the asteroid to return in 2023. The spacecraft was launched in 2016 and has been at Bennu since December 2018.

Other B-type asteroids include:

 * 2 Pallas
 * 24 Themis
 * 47 Aglaja
 * 59 Elpis
 * 85 Io
 * 88 Thisbe
 * 142 Polana
 * 213 Lilaea
 * 241 Germania
 * 282 Clorinde
 * 335 Roberta
 * 372 Palma
 * 383 Janina
 * 431 Nephele
 * 531 Zerlina
 * 541 Deborah
 * 555 Norma
 * 560 Delila
 * 702 Alauda
 * 704 Interamnia
 * 767 Bondia
 * 895 Helio
 * 1021 Flammario
 * 1331 Solvejg
 * 1474 Beira
 * 1484 Postrema
 * 1539 Borrelly
 * 1655 Comas Sola
 * 1705 Tapio
 * 1724 Vladimir
 * 2382 Nonie
 * 2446 Lunacharsky
 * 2527 Gregory
 * 2629 Rudra
 * 2659 Millis
 * 2708 Burns
 * 2772 Dugan
 * 2809 Vernadskij
 * 2816 Pien
 * 2973 Paola
 * 3000 Leonardo
 * 3074 Popov
 * 3200 Phaethon
 * 3566 Levitan
 * 3579 Rockholt
 * 3581 Alvarez
 * 3627 Sayers
 * 3647 Dermott
 * 4124 Herriot
 * 4396 Gressmann
 * 4686 Maisica
 * 4997 Ksana
 * 5079 Brubeck
 * 5102 Benfranklin
 * 5133 Phillipadams
 * 5222 Ioffe
 * 5234 Sechenov
 * 5330 Senrikyu
 * 5344 Ryabov
 * (5690) 1992 EU
 * 6500 Kodaira
 * (7753) 1988 XB
 * (65679) 1989 UQ
 * (65679) 1989 UQ

title: B-type asteroid


text:
F-type asteroid

F-type asteroids are a relatively uncommon type of carbonaceous asteroid, falling into the wider C-group.

Characteristics
F-type asteroids have spectra generally similar to those of the B-type asteroids, but lack the "water" absorption feature around 3 μm indicative of hydrated minerals, and differ in the low wavelength part of the ultraviolet spectrum below 0.4 μm.

The F-type and B-type asteroids are not distinguishable with the criteria used in the SMASS classification, so in that scheme are grouped together under the B-type.

title: F-type asteroid


text:
Ken

Ken or KEN may refer to:

Entertainment

 * Ken (album), a 2017 album by Canadian indie rock band Destroyer
 * Ken (film), a 1965 Japanese film
 * Ken (magazine), a large-format political magazine
 * Ken Masters, a main character in the Street Fighter franchise

People

 * Ken (given name), a list of people named Ken
 * Ken (musician) (born 1968), guitarist of the Japanese rock band L'Arc-en-Ciel
 * Ken (South Korean singer) (born 1992), stage name of Lee Jae-hwan of the South Korean boy group VIXX
 * Felip (singer), member of SB19 who goes by stage name Ken

Other uses

 * Kèn, a musical instrument from Vietnam
 * Ken (doll), a product by Mattel
 * Ken (unit) (間), a Japanese unit of measurement and proportion
 * Ken River, a river in the Bundelkhand region, India
 * Ken sword (剣), a Japanese sword
 * Kensington railway station, Melbourne
 * Komisja Edukacji Narodowej, Polish National Board of Education
 * Ken (県), meaning "prefecture" in Japanese; see Prefectures of Japan
 * Ken (拳), meaning "fist" in Japanese; see Sansukumi-ken for various hand gesture matching games
 * Ken (Կ կ), the fifteenth letter of the Armenian alphabet
 * KEN (ISO 3166-1 country code for Kenya)
 * Kent, county in England, Chapman code

title: Ken


text:
North Fork Musselshell River

The North Fork Musselshell River is a tributary of the Musselshell River, approximately 35 miles (56 km) long, in Montana in the United States.

It rises in the Lewis and Clark National Forest in the Little Belt Mountains in northeastern Meagher County, and flows south through Bair Reservoir, then southeast. It joins the South Fork to form the main branch of the Musselshell just west of county line with Wheatland County.

title: North Fork Musselshell River


text:
User:Scotth1

Scott
I have only "discovered" Wikipedia in the last eight days after an e.mail pointing to the Hello world program entry and I added some OPS5 DCL and BLISS code. Since then I've made a number of rash edits, including a few New Pages, let's see how they stand up to time before appearing on VfD page...

Living in Sydney, Australia working in the I.T. Industry you can guess what my passions might be with a quick look at pages I've played at recently

 * 2004 Mar 16 Technical and Further Education
 * 2004 Mar 16 TOPS-10
 * 2004 Mar 16 Gare du nord
 * 2004 Mar 12 m Sing Tao Daily (link to prepress)
 * 2004 Mar 12 m Adobe Indesign
 * 2004 Mar 12 Prepress
 * 2004 Mar 12 Radio National
 * 2004 Mar 11 Sydney Film Festival
 * 2004 Mar 11 Tropfest
 * 2004 Mar 11 List of film festivals
 * 2004 Mar 11 Low-key lighting
 * 2004 Mar 8 Gaffer
 * 2004 Mar 8 Key Grip
 * 2004 Mar 8 Clap boy
 * 2004 Mar 8 Best boy

Like many Australians of my generation (already sounds older than I feel) I took a large redundancy payout in the early 1990's and spent twelve months travelling by rail from Hong Kong, eventually ending up in London when I ran out of money. To date I've travelled to around 30 countries, but there is always new places, people to meet and food to eat in those 30 countries, so I like to go back and visit again.

title: User:Scotth1


text:
Talk:Democracy movements of China

Weasel Words
There seems to be a high concentration of weasel words in this one paragraph alone. It would be great if we could find an expert or work that expresses such views and give that as a citation.--69.230.164.147 (talk) 01:08, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Many pro-democracy supporters noted that China has successfully overcome much of the challenges to democracy in China faced during the transition from a communist to a capitalist economy so there is no longer a need for prolonged political repression. They claim that pro-democracy forces would not necessarily stall economic growth after the transition, as the Communist Party states, and more importantly that the presence of democracy would help to check wasteful corruption and might achieve a more even distribution of wealth.[citation needed] Many believe that the Communist Party of China has no intention whatsoever of ever relinquishing power even if all their economic goals are ever achieved; it is said that China would have refused the WTO if the terms of entry were linked to a shift to a Western-style democracy.

China
Something should be mentioned about the China Democracy Party. --Jiang

This should definitely include all the other democratic movements in China BEFORE the CPC came to power. That includes ROC, May Fourth, and Jiangxi Soviet, etc. -Hmib 02:14, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Is that why there's a POV tag on it? TastyCakes 20:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

What about Republic of China?
There is no mention of the current Chinese Democracy, the Republic of China. Why is this? -- R'son-W (speak to me/breathe) 14:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Go to Democracy in China; feel free to edit. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 23:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Simply, the Communists control the editing of Wikipedia.101.98.175.68 (talk) 07:51, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Because Taiwan is de facto not China. Taiwan has had aspects of democracy for decades, and what is generally considered a full democracy by the '90s, and so its not really applicable to this page, which focuses on current democracy movements in the People's Republic of China. 163.29.35.147 (talk) 02:58, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

difference between two articles
What are the differences between this article and Democracy in China? Why shouldn't they be merged? Shawnc (talk) 10:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Democracy in China concerns earlier movements, the Revolution of 1911, and the establishment and rule of the Communist Party of China, which can be said to be democratic movements, but do not, or did not, provide for universal suffrage and guaranteed legal rights. User:Fred Bauder Talk 20:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Jasmine revolution
The short section seems appropriate. There was a call, not much happened, etc. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Quigley (talk) 22:00, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Capitalization
This article only discusses the Chinese Democracy Movement growing out of the Beijing Spring and the Tiananmen Square protests. In China right now, there are many different forces that, while differing on the type of democracy China should have, agree that democracy is needed in China and the current system is not working. It is therefore logical to rename this article to Chinese Democracy Movement with capital letters instead, unless good efforts are employed toward updating this article on the true state of democracy sentiments in China.

Estoppel?
I do not know if this was written by a computer, but what does this mean: "The principle of estoppel was violated by the MSM, which changed its story. Meanwhile, the CSN held its estimate steady at 3,000, not violating estoppel and maintaining the credibility of consistency"?101.98.175.68 (talk) 07:49, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Source describing 1952 for Democracy Movement beginning?
A source was previously cited for the idea that 1952 was the genesis of Chinese democracy movements. It was not verifiable in English. The academic consensus is that Chinese Democracy Movements began with the Democracy Wall movement. Although its exact dating is arguable, it is generally viewed as November 1978 to spring 1981.

Although we want to be mindful of WP:undue we could cite an argument that 1952 is the beginning of Chinese democracy movements, but we ought to have a quotation from a source that is verifiable. JArthur1984 (talk) 21:42, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Democracy movements of China


text:
South Fork Musselshell River

The South Fork Musselshell River is a tributary of the Musselshell River in south central Montana in the United States.

It rises in the Lewis and Clark National Forest in the Crazy Mountains in southern Meagher County. It flows northeast, joining the North Fork to form the Musselshell near Martinsdale just west of county line with Wheatland County.

title: South Fork Musselshell River


text:
Talk:Flex dollar

Untitled
It should be noted that flex dollars or programs similar to them are used at many universities around the country. --CeltMDC 07:05, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flex dollar


text:
Talk:Contact juggling

Reliable Source
Gujamin of the contactjuggling Yahoo discussion group proposed the idea of a contact juggling convention and various locations were proposed, ultimately settling on Florida as the location for the first convention in Sept. 2001. The first convention was funded and organized by a contact juggler named Ferret, and had an attendance of only about 35 people. Rich Shumaker helped Ferret with this convention and filmed the ill-fated competition. Future Contact Juggling conventions in 2002 and 2003 did not have competitions.  Original Discussion on Yahoo by Gujiman - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contactjuggling/message/333 Chico Asks What is Going on - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contactjuggling/message/1368 Ferret takes over - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contactjuggling/message/1387?var=1&l=1 Surveys are handed out via the net - filled out - and we are all set 1 Problem - Ferret lives in FL not GA - So the venue is switched to FL Link to the CJC2001 Convention Videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/contactjugglingorg - This link should be added to the Links Section as it does not exist on any of the Links to Links Pages(DMOZ, ect.) I have no idea how to create a reference link inside the page so I made it here (Help link this on the main page)

--RichShumaker (talk) 00:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Pen spinning....
cannot be considered a sub-discipline of contact juggling. Any justification for this? Its related in that it deals with the manipulation of an object that doesn't leave the skin - but so is brushing one's teeth. I've moved the link under a 'See also' header. Laurence9993 16:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As a ball contact juggler, I agree to your statement for the most part. The definition can be absurdly broad. Kind of a "I know it when I see it" thing. For example, Contact Staff isn't mentioned on this article at all. Although it is relatively widespread in the staff spinning community and gaining an incredibly following. 66.119.27.235 19:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't completely agree with your generalization. Contact juggling includes a dynamic component, i.e. movement that can't be reproduced statically. If you stopped moving your hand while brushing your teeth, the tooth brush isn't likely to fall out of your hand. Ceran 04:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Pen Spinning could and should be considered a sub category because you are keeping it in contact with your body. Thus juggling it in contact with your body. - Rich Shumaker  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RichShumaker (talk • contribs) 23:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Including information about pen spinning is fine provided there are reliable sources that can be cited which define pen spinning as a category of contact juggling. Otherwise it's considered original research. Rray (talk) 23:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So Considering the fact that I helped define the term with help of several other thousands of people my 'original' research was not original and was not done my me only - So back in the day, We had this same discussion and it was decided then that anything that stays in contact with your body - Thus EXPANDING THE ART FORM. By limiting the language you limit the art form. RichShumaker (talk) 23:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's all well and good, but it's original research unless you provide references to reliable sources. You don't get to add information just based on your expert say-so. I'm going to add a welcome message to your talk page which will include links explaining some of this stuff for you. I hope you'll take the time to read it and become a valued contributor here. A really good starting place might be Verifiability :) Rray (talk) 23:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Intro and History
Contact juggling is a term created by James Ernest and is the title of his book that was the first mass teaching / introduction to this art form. Michael Moschen does not 'like', appreciate, recognize this term as seen by his actions of almost boycotting the IJA festival when 'Contact Juggling' was reviewed by Juggle Magazine. He also spoke out against the book during his speech to the convention goers.(transcripts and video tapes are not publically available, the IJA records all of their events so they should still have this footage) Exerpt from the Foreward 'Contact Juggling' by James Ernest - I am indebted to the Society for Creative Anachronism for providing me with an audience whenever I've wanted to perform, and to Michael Moschen, whose contirbutions to the film Labyrinth first inspired me to learn contact juggling. I am including this information because contact juggling was a teaching method started by James Ernest to allow anyone that wanted to learn what he called contact juggling. He gave this lesson thousands of times teaching people all over the United States of America. He credits as mentioned in the previous paragraph Labyrinth (film) for inspiring him to learn. Since Mr. Moschen never showed James directly James created his own methodology to teach. As students learned they created new and unique styles and moves unattributable to Mr. Moschen. Don't get me wrong without Michael Moschen I do not believe contact juggling would exist in it's modern form. He has brought together several non related disciplines under one roof. With a simple rule 'No Throws' he led himself(Mr. Moschen) on a journey. Just remember that 4 ball pyramids, isolations, body rolling have all existed and were being done before Michael Moschen was on this planet. Michael Moschen's genius lay in his ability to take existing objects and styles and fuse them into a modern form of dance and art. Where did it exist before Moschen? - Camelbacking on the Louisana Bayou, Harlem Globetrotters Raz Ma Taz Show, Baoding Balls, Tai Chi with Ball, also with the amazing jugglers that came before Michael Moschen such as Francis Brunn and Paul Cinquevalli. Mr. Moschen and people that support his argument don't want anyone doing his routine, tricks, or use his prop, lighting or costuming. This is a broad concept and would be very unrealistic and counter productive to the art of juggling. I equate this with a painter saying you can't use my brush, my paint, or my techniques. Where would art be as a whole if we could not emulate, mutate, expand and grow. The main idea is to create new and different ways to move and dance with a ball or balls, or for that matter any prop. Copying anyones entire routine is paramount to theft as a routine can clearly be copyrighted --RichShumaker (talk) 00:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Drew: History would benefit from history of CJ before 1980s. There is reference-able history in the book "Multiball Contact". But should at least mention, Francis Brunn, Tony Duncan (who was doing half-butterfles before Moschen) and perhaps Chinlone.

I have changed much of the intro and history of this page. The intro section gives a brief overview of the three main schools of thought in contact juggling (Isolationism, Palmspinning, and Bodyrolling), and I changed much of the first paragraph of the history section to explain terminology and influence of MM. I also removed the phrase "father of contact juggling" because, I have never heard it used, if anyone has a reference for it, I will gladly eat my edit. Finally, I changed the main picture to reflect the more graceful nature of contact juggling, this is of course until someone can find a more suitable image.

Some ideas for this article:

That's all I can think of for now. As more ideas come, I'll drop them here.
 * 1) Develop individual sections, which will hopefully become fully-fledged articles concerning:
 * 2) palmspinning
 * 3) bodyrolling
 * 4) isolationism
 * 5) Insert some images of the different props used
 * 6) acrylics
 * 7) Stage balls
 * 8) other non-spherical objects (clubs, rings, etc.)
 * 9) Develop a section devoted to the community
 * 10) contactjuggling.org and its history
 * 11) Contact juggling's relation to and with the wider juggling /manipulation community
 * 12) gatherings of contact jugglers

Mathteacher1729 03:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Competition?
What is the "ill fated competition"? gujamin 19:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Rich Shumaker Reply - Competition in an Art Form can stagnate and destroy it. Ask the European's Marco Andrew and Daniel about our 3AM discussion on this subject. Then Ask Ferret about the reprecussions of the Post Competition fall out. The competition seemed like a great idea until you take into account what really happens when people compete and don't cooperate. It can damage or ruin the art form. RichShumaker (talk) 23:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Contact Juggling NOT Contact juggling
Since 1987 it has been Contact Juggling - Why is it now in 2007 being decided that the book is called Contact Juggling and the art form is Contact juggling by someone who does not do it and has not been involved. Contact Juggling goes by several other names such as Sphereplay(tm), Dynamic Object Manipulation, Orb Manipulation, and tons of other names. Rich Shumaker - RichShumaker (talk) 23:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't assume that I don't do it and I'm not involved. "Contact juggling" isn't a proper noun, so it's not capitalized. The title of a book is a proper noun. Most activites are not, like "jogging", "juggling", "plate spinning", "card tricks" etc.
 * If you have a reference to a reliable source that says it's a proper noun, please provide it. Rray (talk) 23:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Why is it not contact juggling then why is it not juggling wiki page why do you capitalize that why is it Art and not art. Contact Juggling is the name for the art form, period.  Your modification of that is fine.  Me is no goodsky at the engliz skillz and I hack that language.  What I know about CJ is that it is CJ not Cj.  - WHAT DO I NEED TO GET YOU TO MAKE THIS A CAPITAL LETTER NOT A LOWER CASED ONE.  I have NEVER seen anyone refer to it as Contact juggling, ever.  I apologize for assuming you don't CJ I am just confused by your lack of knowledge of the 2 words together, both capitals.  RichShumaker (talk) 00:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So I researched - Recognize a proper noun when you see one. Nouns name people, places, and things. Every noun can further be classified as common or proper. A proper noun has two distinctive features: 1) it will name a specific [usually a one-of-a-kind] item, and 2) it will begin with a capital letter no matter where it occurs in a sentence.

Contact Juggling is a THING - Done by people in places but it is a SPECIFIC thing like a Hummel or a Rich Shumaker RichShumaker (talk) 00:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not a proper noun any more than the word "juggling" is a proper noun, so it isn't capitalized. The first word of articles in the Wikipedia are capitalized because they're titles, but it's not the correct style guide to capitalize the other words in the title unless they're proper nouns. So an article about art would be capitalized as "Art", but an article about teaching art would be "Art teaching". Because the word "teaching" isn't a proper noun.
 * It's also possible that you've seen the term incorrectly capitalized in multiple places. Anyway, I hope that explanation helps. Rray (talk) 00:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have a degree in English, so I'm well-acquainted with the difference between common and proper nouns. Just because something is a "thing" doesn't make it a proper noun. A proper noun is the name of a specific place, person, or object. Contact juggling is none of these; it's an activity, like running, juggling, painting, or any number of other activities, none of which are capitalized. I hope that clears up the issue for you. :)Rray (talk) 00:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Contact Juggling is an Art Form and has been described as such since it's inception. As an art form the words describe a very specific type of Art and therefore the term is specific to a specific thing. RichShumaker (talk) 00:17, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The phrase "art form" and the word "art" aren't capitalized either. You've admitted and now demonstrated that your command of English is questionable. I'm not sure what else to tell you other than the phrase "contact juggling" isn't a proper noun and therefore isn't capitalized. It would only be capitalized if it's used as part of a title, like when it's used in the title of Ernst's book on the subject.
 * Another art form is "sculpture", but that's not capitalized either. Neither is "painting", or even the more specific "oil painting". Or the word "drawing". Rray (talk) 00:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * decapitalize the whole page contact juggling For whatever reason all pages dealing with Contact Juggling have always been Contact Juggling until now - by making it Contact juggling you confuse a situation that has existed since Day One of the art form. Maybe we were wrong but english allows for wrongness.  Their is an exception to every rule and in this case I say this is one.  Find me another instance where it is Contact juggling.  Not contact juggling which I agree with would be fine but Not Contact juggling - It is confusion confusing itself with a confusing twist. RichShumaker (talk) 00:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, we're not going to do things incorrectly because it confuses you. The article is titled correctly according to the style guidelines here. Rray (talk) 00:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've looked up uses of the phrase "contact juggling" in legitimate media. It is not capitalized. Here are some links to news articles on the subject, none of which capitalize the phrase: [|1] [|2] [|3]. I saw some contact juggling websites which capitalized the phrase, but they all looked very much like personal websites rather than reliable sources for determining whether or not to capitalize something. Rray (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You are correct I apologize for my ignorance of the english language. The usage I have seen for Contact Juggling is as a title to a page.  There is no reference in Contact Juggling by James Ernest to using dual capitalization as that is just bad engliz as I seem to have quite a lot of.  The only time dual capitalization is made in the book is From Page 2 of Contact Juggling by James Ernest - "Contact Juggling" is my own name for a style which fits only barely into the other categories of juggling, and which therefore deserves a name of its own.  It is based, for the most part, on the manipulation of a single object.RichShumaker (talk) 17:24, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No harm done. :) Rray (talk) 20:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Names
Sphereplay(tm) is a trademark of Try Out Toys Entertainment - http://www.tryouttoys.com

 * The talk page is for discussion of the article. I'm not sure what the point of these sections on the talk page are? Rray (talk) 04:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

 * The main page has an error. So I thought the place to discuss that error is on the discussion page.  Spherplay is trademarked and as such should have the trademark symbol(tm) - I would have changed it myself didn't know if it first needed to be discussed.--RichShumaker (talk) 02:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

 * You need to make it clear how all the stuff you just added to the talk page applies to the article, instead of just posting a lot of random facts and links. Rray (talk) 04:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Gotcha - This specific note is for clarification and correction on the main page. I can easily add TM to the Sphereplay(tm) - also notice the capitalization.  One of the reasons I didn't add it is because of the confusion I had with Contact Juggling.  The other notes either directly deal with contact juggling of the past or near past.  I am trying to help someone fill in more information on the main page of the wikipedia.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

First Online Lesson
Ray Bowers Site - http://www.bowers.com/contact_juggling/index.html --RichShumaker (talk) 03:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I put this note in for historical reasons. When I showed up on the internet CJ scene this was the first and only site of the time that had a CJ lesson on it.  This information is on the discussion page to help someone who has gotz the engliz skilz to write a more complete wikipedia article on CJ(contact juggling).--RichShumaker (talk) 23:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

My First Lesson
Rich Shumaker's first lesson from James Ernest http://www.contactjuggling.com/lessonone.php --RichShumaker (talk) 03:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Again I don't gotz the engliz skilz unless you are talking about bad ones. So I put this note here.  I was first taught CJ by James Ernest(the book the name yada yada) and this is the lesson he gave me(with some added pointers that were gained over time).  I actually don't give this lesson anymore except as a historical perspective of how contact juggling got started.  The roots as it were.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

First Online Meeting Place
Yahoo Forum - Archive available at http://www.contactjuggling.org The mention to Yahoo is made on the wiki page I just wanted to note that you can get the archive of those discussions somewhere--RichShumaker (talk) 03:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Books Videos and More about Contact Juggling
These listings are in Cronological Order - Release dates needed Book - Contact Juggling by James Ernest 2nd Edition - 1991 - Currently out of press in the US - available in UK(company needed) TV - PBS Great Performance Series - In Motion with Moschen - First Aired 1991 Video - The Art of Contact Juggling by David Pennington
 Video - Contact Juggling by Greg Maldonado and Owen Edson - Released 2001
 Video - Sphereplay(tm) Art of the Sphere by Try Out Toys Entertainment - Released 2001
 Video - Contact Juggling Part 2 by Greg Maldonado and Owen Edson
 Video - Playing in the Multisphere - Try Out Toys Entertainment and Bob Hughes Company - Filmed Jan. 2004 Released 2006
 Video - The Visual Encyclopedia of Contact Juggling Vol. 1 to 4 by Matt Olsen
 Book - Multiball Contact by Drew Batchelor - published 2007
 Not a complete list but a list of what I have come across so far --RichShumaker (talk) 03:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have been asked and it has been asked in the past - Where can I see that - How can I learn that - So here is a 'not so complete' list of available things about CJ. I would like this added and expanded on the main wikipedia page except I don't know if that is acceptable standards and my engliz skilz aren't the best.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Contact Juggling Conventions
CJC 01-02-03 Location - Florida - More Details Needed
 BCJC 03 - Location - Scotland
 There have also been Sphereplay(tm) Days and Spherecamps --RichShumaker (talk) 03:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * More CJ history - the main wikipedia page mentions BCJC 2003 and does not mention the 3 in the US or any of the Sphereplay(tm) day's or camps.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Juggling VS Contact Juggling
As so many people have put it so eliquently to me(Rich Shumaker) over the years 'Contact Juggling is not Juggling'
 'Contact Juggling' is a term coined by James Ernest in his book to describe a style of juggling in which the prop stay in contact with the body and is not thrown. In his book balls are the specific prop most used but it is not limited by the book to just balls. In fact a section of the book deals with extending your arms with props to roll a ball on.
 Jugglers have been 'annoyed' by this art form for many years. Leading contact juggling to be the #1 MAQ(Most Annoying Questions) for Jugglers http://www.juggling.org/~conway/juggler/MAQ.html
 While this is a humourous perspective this humor underlies the general sentiment in the United States towards contact jugglers for the 1990's.
 More research into the archives of the rec.juggling list are needed for the 1996 discussions on contact juggling where the concept of 'unique' tricks 'unique' props and derivative works are discussed at length.
 The general overall idea is that using the same props and moves in new and inventive ways is good. Copying or almost copying someones routine is NOT ALRIGHT.--RichShumaker (talk) 03:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is for the section dealing with the controversy of CJ with jugglers. Many jugglers in the 90's had a great disdain for contact juggling.  So going to your local juggling club in the US would bring the looks and at conventions no accommodation's were made and people would often give you sneering looks or openly criticize you for just doing the art form at all.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * (Mention of this is in the wikipedia article)This all stems from the Michael Moschen speach at the IJA convention in the early 90's. Moschen was being honored for a lifetime of achievement as a juggler(and rightfully so) and he became upset during his speach over his displeasure of the book 'Contact Juggling' by James Ernests.  This created a rift and what I call fall out.  In recent Q & A sessions(2005) Moschen has not been very happy when the term contact juggling has come up.--RichShumaker (talk) 23:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Fushigi Redirect
Why does Fushigi ball redirect here when the phrase is not mentioned on the page? Shouldn't we have a reason why a phrase redirects? Something like "Among many props used in contact juggling, the crystal orb, often of lucite, glass, or other plastics, is the most popular.  Some refer to the orb as a Fushigi ball"... or whatever? This could mention also the Sphereplay thing referred to above, which appears to have been removed from the page at my last reading.--Mwexler (talk) 17:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't play
This link http://vimeo.com/30212822, video doesn't play, guess it's been taken off. See section Contact Juggling community, ABOUT:MANIPULATION carries the link. Not sure what to do with it. Manytexts (talk) 08:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Contact juggling


text:
Talk:Candomblé

Orixá, orisha and oricha
Hi, people. I'm creating this discussion because I've noticed the page predominantly uses the English-language word "orisha" to refer to Candomblé's deities. Well, this is English Wikipedia so maybe it's expected and the guidelines say to use English preferably. However, it also says to mention native written forms. In Brazilian Portuguese, the correct form is "orixá", so the first sentence of the second paragrah ("Candomblé is monotheistic, involving the veneration of spirits known as orishas" [also not sure why it's in italic if it's English]), maybe should be written as something like "Candomblé is monotheistic, involving the veneration of spirits known as orixás (or orishas)" or "known as orishas (or orixás, in Portuguese)" or "spirtis natively known as orixás". I don't know either if there's an established form used in English-language sources. For this purpose, may be the person to contact since s/he did a great work here. I'd also like to notice that the article currently also uses "orichas", which probably is not correct unless it's also widely used by scholars. "Orichas" is probably derived from Spanish "orichás"—as a side note, Santería articles mostly use almost-native form "orichas", but also uses "orishas" regularly. I think a standard should be adopted both here and in Santería article. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 16:13, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

 * You make a very good point, Gabriel Yuji. I agree that we probably should stick with the Portuguese spelling orixás in this article, although I have seen different spellings used in the English-language academic publications on Candomblé. Causing a slight bit of confusion is the distinction between the orixás as the spirits of Candomblé and the orishas of Yoruba-derived religious traditions as a whole; both of which are mentioned in the article. For that reason, we may still need a combination of the two spellings, depending on which is being referred to (and perhaps an explanatory note to make clear the difference in spelling?). Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , I haven't paid attention to the distinction between orixás and orishas. Good point. An explanatory note would be good to explain such a sudden change within the same article. (So this distinction explains the use of both "orichas" and "orishas" in the Santería article that initially confused me—a note there would be useful too.) Gabriel Yuji (talk) 03:04, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

In further support of the differentiation suggested above, please note specificity in the uses of the term. In Brazil, "orixá" has the straightforward meaning as defined above; in Benin however, "Orisha" is also the name of the religion, as practiced by the Yoruba – distinguishing it from "Vodou", as practiced by the Fon. Parzivalamfortas 01:03, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Parzivalamfortas' comments
I have undone an edit to the first paragraph which had suggested the primacy of Bantu speaking peoples in the origin of Candomblé. Bantu, as made clear further down in the text is only one of several that contributed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_languages. Parzivalamfortas 00:55, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

I do feel some of the assertions need to be better authenticated...

1) 'That Candomblé spread to other countries...'. I think most of the evidence is that the varieties of Afro religions in other countries arose directly from the diaspora rather than each other. This is not to say that Candomblé per se could not be practiced in other countries as well.

2) 'That practitioners are "disproportionately poor, female, and a great proportion of males homosexual' ... The veracity and relevance of this needs to be better authenticated unless good demographics are available? In which case they can be cited. That a higher proportion are women is a common enough observation, but I have also visited terreiros where the gender balance at a particular gathering was approximately equal. The poorer sector is a common assumption as well, though remember that the past two Presidents also had Candomblé connections in Benin and Salvador includes academics that I have met. Disproportionate to what? The general population of Brazil as a whole high a high proportion of poorer people, yet the main cities are modern and Sao Paulo, which has vibrant Candomblé communities, has many wealthy people. As with "poor" and "female" the tag "homosexual" seems to be making a slur, however unintentional, especially as there is no especial link with the religion itself. The one source quoted for this, from Queer Black Anthropology, is by an American author and her article focuses on black lesbians, not homosexual men, and only in Salvador. A more balanced demographic study can be found here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6142372/. The author suggests that a higher female proportion might be due to women taking more interest in spirituality. Though there is much overlap as well as confusion generally between Candoble/Umbanda/Spiritism. With respect to the Wiki author's other work, I politely suggest that the statement is possibly irrelevant, misleading and should be removed. 3) One unique facet of Brazilian Candomble/Umbanda that differentiates it from its Afro-origins is the Pomba-Gira cult which is a considerable force for female empowerment (as is much of Candomblé, perhaps on account of its status as a non-patriarchal religion). If one must mention gender, then some positives might be in order. Categorizing (by implication) Candomblé practitioners as female/gay/lesbian is a little too close to the evangelical campaign to demonize the traditional religion.

Parzivalamfortas 13:49, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your message, Parzivalamfortas. On your first point, the article is saying (or trying to say) that Candomblé itself has been transplanted to countries other than Brazil, i.e. you will find terreiros in Germany, for instance, largely established by Brazilian emigrants. It is not trying to say that, for example, Vodou or Santería are the same thing as Candomblé. If the current wording on this is unclear then we can certainly reword things.

 * As for "Membership is disproportionately poor and female; among its male practitioners, a high proportion are homosexual", it is not essential to the lead so could be removed, although perhaps we might be better seeking to rephrase it? Giving some demographic information about practitioners is useful; we do so at the FA-rated Santería and Rastafari articles, for instance. Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:57, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply Midnightblueowl. I agree with your statement on transplanted terreiros now you have explained it to me. I am less comfortable with the "poor, female, male homosexual" part but would agree that it could be removed. I include some further references to clarify some of the issues involved. I do think a large proportion tend to be female, though as that seems to be the case for many religions I'd question its relevance unless we express it more clearly. To clarify the homosexuality issue (which I thnk is misleading) a technical Candomblé dynamic and the necessary language used in the research by Professor Johnson (further down, below) is necessary but might not be suitable for a general Wiki page. If however we are in agreement about removing the reference to homosexuality it becomes academic.

On gender and gender orientation, Hayes for instance (https://www.academia.edu/47783693/Women_and_Religion_in_Contemporary_Brazil) mentions that “Candomblé and other Afro-Brazilian religions… recognise women’s sacerdotal authority” although this does not automatically translate into the numbers of worshippers; it may well do, but in making such a statement we would perhaps need to say “in comparison to what?” Hayes notes that there is greater involvement of women also in Brazilian Pentecostalism and (ibid. p.396) and one can find figures to say that for many religions (e.g. Hayes p.400-1 & refs). She adds (p.412) : “Men play critical roles in the ritual life of any Candomblé terreiro and the division of labor within the community reproduces conventional gendered norms in many ways.” And also (p.412) “Female mediums also outnumber their male counterparts in Umbanda, although the gendered division of spiritual labor that structures Candomblé terreiros generally is less apparent.” That Candomblé is disproportionately dominated by a majority of women is perhaps too strong a statement and open to misinterpretation.

Certainly we could say that “women seem to outnumber men significantly” (Hayes p.409, even though her refs are rather old); yet one must be cautious to avoid characterizing a religion in such a way.

On poverty again we come across evidence of numbers. Hayes notes that “Brazil’s rural poor continue to be predominately Catholic” and that “Pentecostal women thus are far more likely to be suffering from the effects of poverty than women involved in Spiritist or alternative religious communities, which attract better educated and more affluent Brazilians” (p.399). This goes some way against the idea that Candomblé adherents are predominately poor. (I could add that those known to me personally are certainly not poor, and include businesswomen and professors). Hayes (p.411) says “Some of these women [of Candomblé], like Mãe Menininha of Gantois, have become figures of national and even international renown, acclaimed as spiritual exemplars and sought out by politicians, writers, artists, musicians, and other culture brokers”.

I wouldn’t press any remarks of Pomba Gira, which is by definition female-orientated, but technically associated with Quimbanda (or Umbanda in the wider sense) rather than Candomblé.

There is indeed some support for the idea of homosexuals with Candomblé in the literature but it is equivocal (de Port, Ecstatic Encounters, AUP 2011 chapter 4) and may probably be an over-willingness of the western Gay Pride movement and traditional psychoanalysis to translate a symbolic (spiritual) gender-exchange into a physical reality.

Paul Johnson clearly examines and explains the limits of such an idea: “The drummer’s discourse equated such cool containment with a feminized body. A macho body in repose, he implied, is cock up and ass down. lt does not passively recline, however, but is rather open and cruising the street. lt is not worried about penetration; rather, it penetrates. If this were a strict logic of practice in Candomblé, then the only men in the terreiro would be bichas, gay men who assume a “female” role in intercourse. But this is hardly the case. Straight men are drummers and song leaders, are sacrificers (axogun) and ogans, select honored men who act as patrons and mediators between the terreiro and the public domain. The drummers and ogans bring the heat of the street to the cool house to fertilize the reproduction of children and axé.” (Johnson P. The Transformation of Brazilian Candomblé, Secrets, Gossips and Gods, Oxford University Press 2002, page 45 	DOI:10.1093/0195150589.001.0001). Also pp.48.

I hope this helps! Parzivalamfortas 20:53, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Umbanda vs Candomblé
@Midnightblueowl Undid some changes I made, and I am going to clarify why I made them

There is a misunderstanding on this page regarding what is Candomblé. I am writer with experience on the field, as well as a Lessé orixá = meaning from yoruba, someone who bows to orixá, a Ogan (the Atabaque player and Singer in the Xirê, the Cults), and a researcher on different nations(The portuguese term used for the main branches Ketu, Jeje and Angola) and varieties of candomblé cult. For more information please read this (Guide in Candomble written an actual Candomblé Practioner) and/or this (peer-reviewed article)

The religion which has syncretism in the form of using catholic Saints as analogies for Orixás is Called Umbanda. You'll not come to any Candomblé and face Catholic Saints, or even hear their names. The cult of Candomblé is done majorly in Yoruban, Fon or Bantu Terms, while Umbanda uses predominantly portuguese terms, and includes the names of Catholic Saints. For Sources please see the above.

I also added the official Governmental site on the Protection of Afro-Brazilian Heritage, as well english written Guides on Candomblé from Credible sources.

I removed Broken links, which is self-explanatory. RodolfoVisconde (talk) 19:29, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

 * Hello RodolfoVisconde. I appreciate that you are new to Wikipedia but please be aware of our WP:Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle. You were bold with your additions and changes (and that's fine), but they were reverted due to concerns about them, and the next stage would be to discuss it here at the Talk Page. You should not WP:Edit war to try and push your controversial changes on the article. Edit warring can result in sanctions.

 * It is important that everything cited at Wikipedia relies on WP:Reliable Sources. At present, we use those reliable sources in the main body of the article, while summarising this information in the opening lead. You added several website citations to the lead but these are all run by practitioners of Candomblé (and advertise services to potential clients), and would not count as Reliable Sources for Wikipedia's purposes. We need to rely on the academic, peer-reviewed literature. In your above comment you make reference to what you describe as a "peer-reviewed article" - the link is actually to part of Paul Johnson's 2002 book Secrets, Gossip, and Gods: The Transformation of Brazilian Candomblé, which is already heavily cited throughout this Wikipedia article.

 * With regard to the Catholic influence on Candomblé, we have multiple Reliable Sources cited in the article that highlight instances where orixás have been conflated with particular saints. I have no doubt that some terreiros and traditions have tried to get rid of these Catholic influences, particularly in an attempt to re-Africanize Candomblé, but this represents only one tendency within the religion, and not the religion as a whole. While true that Umbanda certainly displays greater European influences than Candbomblé, this article would be misleading readers if it concealed the impact that Catholicism has exerted on it throughout its development. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:51, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey there @Midnightblueowl
 * I apologize for any undue behavior. I am an academic and quite new to wikipedia. Please note that some of my edits were quite valuable, if I might say so, and I suggest that some of them be returned ( I see some parts were added, but other parts of big importance were erased) . I will explain why in longer format below, and would like to know what is the preferred format for republishing the changes, adding additional sources of peer-reviewed articles if need be.
 * I would like first to point out that the links added were in the sense of providing better information for readers. If you click the actual links that are available right now as it is (reverted) they are extremely outdated and/or provide only commerical advertisment, general information which is not informative to the user (random pieces of information), and broken links,  while the link I added provide factual and contemporary information, even if one source might sell services (the article added was informative in its essence- and provides the best current information in english language, as well as photos and other important informations to the user). According to the reliable sources page article you posted, it can be seen as a neutral standpoint(presents different aspects and varieties of candomble without attributing value or hierarchy), and while commercial, it cannot be substituted in the moment for a non-commercial standpoint.
 * I will link to more peer-reviewed articles when making next changes and I thank you for the information. However, you must observe that while catholic saints have been used in instances to represent orixás, the significance behind these orixás is made up of african values, histories and characteristics. What the orixás represent is african culture, not Christian culture, differently from Umbanda, where there is christian values and significances for the saints used. . Particular interesting is how in Candomblé the Exu entity is a messenger and in Umbanda it has apprehended aspects of a diabolical nature.  Moreover, the rituals inside candomblé houses don't use catholic saints, this is a consensus in several authors, , : Citing one Of the most famous Yalorixás (head priestess): “Durante a escravidão, o sincretismo foi necessário para a nossa sobrevivência (…)” - During Slavery, syncretism was necessary for our survival. "mas dentro dos cultos, se fala e cultua deuses yorubas" - But inside the rituals, the language and cult is of the Yoruban Gods. This is also supported by other sources studying syncretism,  (Peer-reviewed).
 * Moreover, as we are speaking of a type of oral culture, I see the importance of Candomblé Practioners writing about Candomblé, since the information might not be readily accessible elsewhere. Especially in the english language the amount of misinformation is astounding, contradicting academic and popular consensus, even in published books and peer-reviewed articles. However please do not think I write only as at a partial standpoint. I'm an anthropologist, with published works (did not cite my own work, as I know the rules about self-promotion), and can understand neutral and unbiased perspectives, however Anthropology and Cultural Studies as a science are moving towards accepting the voices of the actor of communities. That I believe, is a bigger discussion tho
 * I'm not denying the influence on my edits, I'm correcting the factual impacts of the catholic faith inside Candomblé, and how it exists as a whole. Umbanda has very different practices, and incorporates elements of candomblé faith, but they cannot speak as a Candomblé house, according to the brazilian African-Root religious federation RodolfoVisconde (talk) 15:20, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

 * Hi RodolfoVisconde and thanks for your message. It's always valuable to have multiple perspectives on a Wikipedia article.

 * As for your removal of various external links at the bottom of the article, I don't object to that at all. Please feel free to remove those as you see fit. I don't object to adding practitioner websites in the "External Links" section either - however I don't think that we should be using them as sources in the text. When it comes to Candomblé, we have more than enough high quality, peer-reviewed academic sources available that we don't have to start using practitioner websites.

 * That is not to say that practitioners' writings must not be used. However, wherever possible, we should use the work of academic-practitioners. For example, if you look at the Santería article, which I brought up to Featured Article quality, as well as the Haitian Vodou and Palo (religion) articles, which I have also worked extensively on, we cite plenty of academics who are also initiates in the tradition in question. There may be certain high quality writings by practitioners who are not academics, but I do think considerable caution is required when using sources of that nature.

 * The question of Catholicism's role in Candomblé is a tricky one. I agree that the way Catholic saints are used in many Candomblé terreiros is not necessarily the same as the way in which they are used in Umbanda. However, Catholicism has clearly influenced the formation of Candomblé to a certain extent. Even if the Catholic saints are only 'shells' to conceal African orixas, that is still a Catholic influence. Moreover (and this is an issue that we also find in other African diasporic religions like Vodou and Santería/Lucumí), different practitioners may take different stances on this issue. Some may insist that the Catholic saints are just there to conceal the African reality; others may genuinely feel that the creolization is an important part of their religious practice. For these reasons I don't think it is appropriate to remove reference to Catholicism from the opening paragraph. I don't see any Reliable Sources from academics that unambiguously state that Catholicism was not a formative element in the emergence of Candomblé. Conversely, there are sources cited in this article which suggest that it was.

 * I was also confused as to why your edits removed much of the information about Candomblé's history from the lead, while instead adding information about Samba, which did not seem totally relevant. However, there are other elements of your edits, such as adding the name of the eguns to the lead, which seem like a good idea. I'm certainly open to discussing other proposed changes to the text as it stands. Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:16, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello there @Midnightblueowl! Thanks for your input, I can see you clearly have done your studies on Afro-Diasporic Religions!
 * One of the most foundational aspects which I could argue, in my experience both as academic as much as practitioner is that while you say that :
 * "There may be certain high quality writings by practitioners who are not academics, but I do think considerable caution is required when using sources of that nature."
 * Is true, as there could be misinformation caused of the lack of proper reviewing of information, also some of the best content is written by practitioners, who have a degree and depth of understanding deeper than individuals who spent several months or even years doing ethnography (the most common form of research as I see it), as opposed to those who were born inside this cosmology.
 * Pierre Verger, the French Anthropologist, and one of the leading experts of Candomblé, has spent decades in Candomblé, and went to the corresponding communities in Africa, where he even changed his name , and recognized that the Bahian Faiths remained truthful to the African sources. However, my professional opinion as an Anthropologist is that we as intellectual communities should give at least equal standpoints of those who were born and nurtured inside this oral communities, in order to diminish the impact of the hierarchy of knowledge which is pervasive toward oral cultures. Therefore, longstanding practitioners should have a similar degree of recognition as those  who are in academic circles.
 * Many are the authors which criticize how neutral can Anthropologists and ethnographers can be, and this is one of the debates that caused the substitution of the Anthropology field for Cultural Studies field, in order to lessen the Imperialistic tendencies of such action. This are many actors on both sides of this debate, and I for one stand with the indigenous people in their right to self-determination. (I'm biased because I'm one of the Indigenous/I am neutral because I'm an Anthropologist - Take your pick).
 * As for the Catholic parts of Candomblé, I agree on what you say, it is definitely sure that there is a Catholic Influence in Candomblé- But what should be clear, and perhaps re-wording would be a better case- that this influence, as far as internal rituals, practices, chants, rhythms, and dances are in question - is several degrees of magnitude lesser than the African Influence - As Pierre Fatumbi Verger or Mãe Stella de Oxóssi, one on each side of the debate (Although if he was still alive, I imagine Verger would defend he was in Mãe Stella Side), so often said.
 * About Samba, there is a great relation on how Samba and Candomblé developed together. For example, Tia Ciata perhaps one of the most important figures in the translation of Samba from Bahia to Rio, was also a Candomblé Practicioner, and players and singers which pioneered the form of Samba that became popular nation-wide met on her terreiro, and participated in her Candomblé. There are many other conections, of Candomblé of Angola nation, the Caboclos, Cabila or Cabula and the elemental musical figure of Samba.
 * Withouth Candomblé, there would be no Samba as we know it, since their origins are intertwined, as also explained on the practitioner website site I cited originally  RodolfoVisconde (talk) 21:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey! Was going to edit the sources and just saw another example of my earlier comment!
 * Just the majority of the peer-reviewed article citations are clearly done by non-brazilians. Eyeballing by name similarity to brazilian and especially bahian names, most are definitely very not brazilians.
 * So while I am in academics and I see many academics engaging in indigenous culture, they still so very rarely belong to the communities.
 * We should use more citations to oral culture repositories, because what I see is people from different societal standards writing about the equivalence of cultural values, but not of production of knowledge. This is precisely why I advocate for the voice of those who belong be heard, because there's no neutrality in the hierarchization of knowledge.
 * I understand you have vastly more experience at the platform, but I can also see that from a perspective of keeping up the lore to the world, we should be able to get varied forms of knowledge to cooperate, and recognize that many non-western peoples have their own sciences, and are experts on their own fields. I know people who live and breath candomblé everyday since they were children, and I believe that we should incentive these people to produce knowledge, especially the oldest members of the community... RodolfoVisconde (talk) 01:45, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

 * Hi RodolfoVisconde. Wikipedia is not really the best place to have a debate on the epistemologies and hierarchies of knowledge and of insider versus outsider perspectives, as interesting and valuable as that may be! (I would agree with you on the value of insider perspectives and on the fact that no one is neutral). Arguments that are useful and important within academic discourses are not necessarily relevant for Wikipedia, a website which relies (in quite a traditional fashion) on published WP:Reliable Sources. Oral testimonies would not be considered valid for Wikipedia's purpose, unless they were published in what Wikipedia regards as Reliable Sources. Wikipedia has its rules and regulations, and we have to abide by them. Changing those rules would require a general consensus among editors at the site as a whole. We cannot just do things differently on a particular article because we do not like those rules.

 * Regarding samba, I would have no objection to mentioning historical connections between it and Candomblé in the article at some point so long as Reliable Sources can be used to support these statements. However, I don't see it as being crucial to the lead, which exists to summarise the most important facts about the subject (see WP:LEAD).

 * I hope you don't mind, but I made some changes to your recent additions to the lead. Mostly, I was trying to edit things back for concision and in keeping with WP:LEAD. I did not think that drawing comparisons with Umbanda in the opening paragraph was appropriate, although there are plenty of other places in the article where it would be. As far as I understand, caboclos are not only indigenous spirits, they can also be spirits of the forests. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:59, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

correcting some errors
hi! Tuning in as a person who is from both Candomblé and Umbanda: Candomblé doesn't have any syncretism with Catholicism or any other religion whatsoever, as described multiple times in the article-- that's Umbanda. The cultivation of caboclos are also from Umbanda. Also, both religions originate way earlier than the 19th-20th c, it's only then when names were "officially coined" but they existed way before that. Macumba also isn't a religion-- it's actually an instrument-- but is also used as a general term to refer to our religions. Again, any mention of syncretism is branching into Umbanda. Please don't get your information online, even Portuguese language sources will have misinformation which has lead to this article being full of it! 208.64.158.243 (talk) 13:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia requires reliable sources for statements; do you have some for these claims? They can be print books or academic journal articles Erp (talk) 02:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

 * By citing many peer-reviewed academic sources written by experts in the field, this article makes clear that Candomblé is undoubtedly syncretic, having absorbed various elements from Roman Catholicism; it probably took shape in Brazil around the 1830s; and some groups incorporate the use of caboclo spirits. Why then would the anonymous editor think differently? I suspect it is down to the form of Candomblé that they have been initiated into. As the article also discusses, since at least the 1980s there has been a movement within the religion which has tried to re-Africanize and, by extension, de-syncretize it. Proponents of this movement have tried to strip out references to Roman Catholic saints, rejected the caboclos as not being African, and emphasised long-term continuity with African traditional religions. If the editor is involved in one of these re-Africanized, de-syncretized lineages, and has had very little experience with other forms of Candomblé (perhaps likely given that they seem to be based in the U.S., not Brazil), then it is not surprising that these revelations may seem surprising to them. It would be akin to a Mormon being exposed to the teachings of the Plymouth Brethren or the Greek Orthodox Church and finding that the interpretation of Christianity that they have embraced is far from being the only one, or even the most common. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:17, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Candomblé


text:
Talk:Green syndicalism

Is this EoT stuff? Maximus Rex 07:08, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Please don't import his stuff here. Maximus Rex 07:15, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

This is an entirely EoT term. It gets no Google hits. Maximus Rex 07:39, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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Now we need cites to back up the assertions in the article, to show that they are not purely figments of EoT's imagination. -- The Anome 10:45, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

As an ordinary user, I found this article useful. Please don't delete it. I don't know if it is a recognised term, but it is a useful idea.

title: Talk:Green syndicalism