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Talk:Volkswagen Beetle

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Also Called
The Also Called section in the infobox is getting too lengthy. The purpose of this section is for other names of the vehicle. Since this is an English Wiki page, it seems incorrect to list the name of the vehicle in other languages as it would have been sold in other non-English speaking markets. The See Also section of the page lists a link to other names: List of names for Type 1

Can we agree that the Also Called section of the infobox should be limited to other names in English speaking markets i.e. Bug, Super Beetle, etc? Expandinglight5 (talk) 20:19, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Start of production
In the introduction the Production is clamed from 1938 on, but the text clearly sais, that the Production startet not before 1941 in a small scale, and mass production after the war. In 1938 only a few preseries Vehicles where completed. Since when the preseries marks the beginning of the production?--WerWil (talk) 10:35, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

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Article incorrect: Name "Beetle" did not exist
The real and official name of this car was and is "Volkswagen Käfer" (various types), the name "beetle" in relation to this car was unknown.

The type "beetle" is only correct in relation to the type 5C and afterwards "new beetle" to type 9C.

The whole article is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C540:204:7D0D:C8FD:4C4:A0C5 (talk) 14:39, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You'll notice the page does not say "Beetle" was an official name. It wasn't. Nor was Käfer. The factory called them Typ 1.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  19:42, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

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In popular culture
A while ago someone removed the "in popular culture" section. Can we really have this article without mentioning "Herbie? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:35, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Well popular culture/cultural influence section should definitely be part of this article.--Kmhkmh (talk) 07:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

 * As long as it meets the WP:IPC guidelines. - BilCat (talk) 08:33, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note the policy nowhere suggests a wholesale removal if some problematic content has accumulated, but talks of trimming and selected removal. I've added the deleted part below for reference purposes. Although it certainly has sourcing issues, most of it seems correct and principally verifiable and at least some of it is definitely proper encyclopedic content (as in WP:IPC compliant content), in particular mentioning Herbie, the missing of which was complained about at the beginning of this thread. Now, whether it is worth salvaging and sourcing parts from the old section or simply writing a new one, that's up to the editors taking on the task. In any case imho Herbie and de:Dudu (a separate German movie series) and possibly no:Pelle Politibil  (Norwegian series about a police beetle) should be mentioned in such a section.--Kmhkmh (talk) 00:11, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with Kmhkmh on this one, & I'm usually inclined to delete these kinds of sections as junk. If the content is as contained below, IMO it meets the test for cultural impact.  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  05:04, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

deleted section
Like its contemporaries, the Mini, the Citroën 2CV, the Renault 4, and the Fiat 500, the Type 1 has long outlasted predictions of its lifespan. It has been regarded as something of a "cult" car since its 1960s association with the hippie movement and surf culture; and the obvious attributes of its unique and quirky design along with its low price. (For example, the Beetle could float on water thanks to its sealed floor pans and overall tight construction, as shown in the 1972 Volkswagen commercial.

The Beetle offered a wide variety of appeals to various sub-markets. Its mechanical simplicity and accessibility appealed to do-it-yourself mechanics. For customizers and modifiers, the ubiquity of the Beetle meant that a large variety of aftermarket performance equipment was available and the platform was used for off-road modifications such as Baja bugs and fiberglass-bodied dune buggies. For others, driving a Type I or Type II was as much a virtue-signalling social statement as it was a means of transportation. The Volkswagen came to symbolize some owners' desire to distinguish themselves from the decadence, conspicuous consumption, and addiction to comfort symbolized by full-sized American cars. Their fuel economy symbolized environmental friendliness, although the Volkswagen motor was highly polluting. Hippies often did aesthetic customizations to their Type Is and IIs and psychedelically painted ones were early examples of art cars. Currently, there are a wide array of clubs focused on the Beetle. Looks include the Cal-Style VW resto-look, Cal Look, German-look, resto-Cal Look, buggies, Baja Bugs, old school, Disney's Herbie the Love Bug replicas, ratlook, etc. Part of the Type 1's cult status is attributed to it being one of a few cars with an air-cooled horizontally opposed engine, and the consequent ease of repair and modification, as opposed to more complex water-cooled engines. The original flat four had fewer than 200 moving parts.

The Type 1 has made numerous appearances in Hollywood films, most notably in Disney's Herbie series. In Cars, every bug or insect is represented by a Type 1. The Beetle is also seen in the background of the Beatles album cover for Abbey Road. In the 1980s Transformers cartoon, one of the most popular characters Bumblebee transformed into a VW Beetle, as did the evil Bugbite in the rival GoBots animated series and toyline.

In 2016, Lego created a model of the Volkswagen Beetle as part of their Lego Creator Series. The Lego model has 1,170 pieces. The Beetle is reflective of the 1960s California surfing culture.

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Crediting Hitler for stolen idea of car design
There should at least be some mention of the fact that Adolf Hitler had stolen the idea of the VW Beetle from not only a Jewish engineer, but also well as other Czech auto designers at the time. It is inappropriate to credit Hitler with something he never actually designed and there is heavy proof against it. Nazi Propaganda claimed he developed the car. Everyone knows this is false. Please someone support me in giving at least a notable mention, not the "disputed" mention to the fact that Hitler did not invent the car. The idea was stolen by engineers who were persecuted by the Nazis and driven out of the country Ganz himself was arrested by the Gestapo because they wanted to erase any trace of his work or responsibility for the original design. Can anyone please support me in changing the statement that: "the Volkswagen was mainly the brainchild of Ferdinand Porsche and Adolf Hitler" At least a mention that the idea was stolen should be stated in the article. Can anyone concur with me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rick4512 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

 * If Ganz's role can be documented in good solid sources, I'm all for including it. We should avoid emotive language like "stolen" and "persecuted"; just give the verifiable facts. Also, we should not draw conclusions, such as "was arrested by the Gestapo because they wanted to erase any trace of his work", unless the conclusion is very well-attested. NewEnglandYankee (talk) 23:45, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit concerned by the proposition Hitler stole the design. He inspired (or financed) the project, but its actual design was by Porsche. Did Porsche "borrow", or appropriate, or outright steal? Maybe--but copying by designers,then & now, is not exactly uncommon...  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  04:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Why would they remove it?
Hello, I a little bit confused of why would they removed the Golf platform-based Beetle on the sucessor section of the infobox? I need some answers ASAP. Thank you! VictorTorres2002 (talk) 01:26, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * For me, it's simple. The first-generation Golf filled the Type 1's market niche. By the time we get to the New Beetle, the market has completely changed. Calling it "design successor" or "style successor" is something done for no other page. Is the '-02 T-bird to be listed as the "style successor" of the '57? is the F-type to be listed as "style successor" to the E-type? And who's going to decide? AFAIK, no source has actually called the New Beetle "style successor" to anything, even if the styling is pretty clearly inspired. (Frankly, the later A5 Beetle is actually closer in styling, so...)  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  06:22, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I changed "design" to "style" only because it is at least styled after the Beetle - it could hardly be further away in design. I agree that either term is daft - I don't see how a model introduced in Europe so much later can be any kind of successor. Ian Dalziel (talk) 12:26, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:52, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * KDF-wagen tinplate toy.JPG

Five-seater?
On 27 January 2019 2601:246:d00:85c:2cc1:805a:b8de:fdb5 edited:
 * (Fixed the stated seating capacity. It claimed it was intended for five people, however, it was not. The Volkswagen Beetle came with 4 seatbelts and a sticker outlining that 4 occupants at maximum should ride in the car.)

I reverted this, based on the existing attached reference:
 * (Undid. Cited brochure says: "The back seat has ample room for three...")

Now I see that 147.126.10.152 has just reverted my edit of 27 January.

I'm walking away from this, but if anyone cares, it's clearly WP policy to use reliable refs rather than an anonymous IP's recollection of how many seatbelts, and the alleged fact that "there was a sticker..." -Snori (talk) 00:26, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Reverted. We can seek page protection if unsourced changes by multiple IPs continue this. - BilCat (talk) 01:16, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

 * There are three seats. Not four, not five. The rear seat is a bench.  It was part of the original Hitler-period spec that the car could hold a "typical German family" and that was considered to have three children.(Ludvigsen, Professor Porsche's Wars, p 133) So the seat is wide enough for three children, even if not for three adults. It's a bench, the seat doesn't care.
 * If we take this to seatbelts, then we're talking about a car from decades later. So we first of all have to be careful just what we're stating, before we attach a number to it. Is this the capacity of the original car?  (and so the belts just don't matter) Does it mean seats or capacity? Is that a number of adults or of children? All of these figures are "correct" (in some context) and sourcing them will not help, as all are sourceable. This is a question of clarity in expression.  Andy Dingley (talk) 02:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Number of seatbelts is irrelevant, since it only applies to very much later Type 1s. Capacity was 5, as designed. (That 3 adults in back would be crowded is another matter; 2+2s usually had 2 seats in back, but their suitability for adults, not children or midgets, was pretty notional.)   TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  06:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Per the 1952 Sales brochure, "...It affords maximum comfort for 4 or 5 persons, including such features as seats cradled between axles to give softly sprung easy-chair comfort. The 1964 sales brochure says, "There is a full length upholstered seat in the back, offering 27.2 inches of space for each passenger. If necessary, three persons can occupy the back seat and still have 17 inches of space for each..."  Expandinglight5 (talk) 06:39, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd say that settles it. (And IIRC, the 1938 proposal was for a 5-seater.)  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  15:46, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Depending on the year and country would vary whether it was intended for 4 or 5. Once seatbelt laws were implemented, intended occupancy would change.Expandinglight5 (talk) 20:43, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

My parents owned one first registered in 1966. It only had two seat belts. Was it perforce a two-seater? As I still have vivid memories of travelling in the back seat as a small Mr Larrington (most notably when my father accidentally slammed the door shut on my fingers while we were on a cross-Hong Kong Harbour ferry) I think not. Mr Larrington (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Germanys car manufacturers did not mainly produce luxury cars
Contrary to the perception one could get by reading the section about "The People's Car", dozens of manufacturers were already producing vehicles throughout the 1920's and the beginning of the 1930's which were small in terms of size, power output and selling price (e.g. the most known cars Hanomag 2/10 PS "Kommißbrot", Opel 4 PS or Dixi/BMW 3/15) and also saw larger numbers of production. But since the overwhelming majority of these companies were rather small and the cars being truly manufactured, they couldn't be made in higher volumes and therefore be sold for prices low enough to appeal to the Germans which still were struggling through the aftermaths of WW I, thus explaining why motorcycles were a common mode of individual transportation apart from buses and trains.

In the 1930's, a lot of cars which could have been considered "People Cars" emerged on the German market, even by companies like Mercedes-Benz which were rather known for their upscale and luxury vehicles. The future Volkswagen could be regarded as one of the hobby horses a technically interested Hitler had pursued.

(Fun fact: it is widely reported that Hitler made his tours through Germany during the 1920's in a Selve, a car which was considered as a mid-size vehicle. It is not reported whether Hitler ever owned a driving licence nor if he was driven or driving himself.) --2A02:560:42DB:D800:7404:4103:DC51:54FD (talk) 02:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Lady Bug?!?
Käfer generally means beetle in German. The lady bug has the specific name Marienkäfer ("[Holy] Mary's beetle"). I don't know of any special link of the VW Käfer to the lady bug and will remove that connection from the introduction, unless there are objections including sources for the statement. --KnightMove (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

 * True; in German, Käfer is a generic word for beetle. I reckon that this ladybug thing originates from the French word Coccinelle (meaning ladybug) – in France, it is a common word for this article's subject. There are different terms in different languages for this car that all mean something like "beetle", for example, Maggiolino (Italian, cockchafer), Buba (Serbo-Croat, beetle), or Bogár (Magyar, beetle). I don't think that the article should prominently call it a ladybug, because the German word Käfer (as you have already mentioned) does not specifically describe a ladybug, and since there already is a List of names for the Volkswagen Type 1. So I support the removal from the lead. Best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 11:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Done, thanks for the confirmation. --KnightMove (talk) 03:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Béla Barényi
This is not my field and I'm not going to edit, but the citation at note 16 does not contain information pertinent to the claims made in the existing article. It should probably be deleted, or the text should be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomp649 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I have replaced the ref. Saschaporsche (talk) 08:56, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

British Military use ?
I assume, Volkswagen Beetle was limited to BAOR (RAF Germany) ? and Berlin. Is that correct ? How long British Military used the Volkswagen Beetle ? --213.172.123.242 (talk) 09:49, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Hans-Georg Mayer writes: „Am 3. Juni erfolgt die Übernahme durch die Engländer. (…) In den nur leicht beschädigten Hallen wurden Fahrzeuge der britischen Besatzungsmacht repariert. (…) In den folgenden Monaten [wurden] aber auch schon wieder Fahrzeuge für die Behörden und Besatzungsmächte gebaut. (…) [Es] konnten bis Jahresende aus Restbeständen 1.785 Fahrzeuge gebaut werden, darunter 977 hochbeinige Volkswagen mit der Karosserie des Kdf-Wagens auf Kübelwagen-Fahrgetellen. (…) Der alte Typ 82 E (…) ging 1945/46 in beträchtlicher Stückzahl (etwa 1.800) an die Besatzungsarmeen. (…) Ab Oktober 1945 ging auch der Käfer mit normalem Fahrgestell wieder in Produktion (…). Die meisten Fahrzeuge gingen als Reparationen an die Besatzungstruppen, wenige an die Deutsche Reichspost oder andere deutsche Dienststellen. (…)“ Hans-Georg Mayer: Der VW-Käfer im Kriege und im militärischen Einsatz danach. Band 114 aus der Reihe Waffen-Arsenal, Podzun-Pallas-Verlag, Dorheim 1988, p. 35–37 ISBN 3-7909-0357-4.

(On 3 June 1945 the control was assumed by the British. Vehicles of the British Armed Forces were repaired in the only slightly damaged Volkswagen plant. In the following months, production of vehicles already receommenced; these vehicles were intended for authorities and British Armed Forces use. In total, 1,785 vehicles were built, of which 977 combined the Kdf-Wagen body with the VW Typ 82 chassis (=Typ 82 E). In 1945/46, the Volkswagen plant delivered many (ca. 1,800) Typ 82 E to the occupying armies. From October 1945, the standard Volkswagen (=Kdf-Wagen chassis and body) was built. Most vehicles were delivered as reparations to the occupying troops, few were delivered to the German Realm Post or other authorities.) Best, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 12:31, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I know what de wiki states about that time period, but a specifically precise answer to the above question can not be found in this (was interested in actual "Beetle" Brezelkaefer, not Kubelwagen). Assume it was used until the 1960s, at least in West Berlin, by the British Military. But I do not know exactly... --213.172.123.242 (talk) 15:17, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Poorly written sentence in intro
I have no idea what the second part of this sentence (after 1925) should mean. Suggest a re-write.

Béla Barényi is credited with first conceiving the original design for this car in 1925, notably by Mercedes-Benz, on their website, including his original technical drawing, five years before Porsche claimed to have done his initial version.

Kampala ?
On 26 May 1938, Hitler laid the cornerstone for the Volkswagen factory in Kampala

Kampala ? The capital of Uganada ? Ur serious ? Seems to be a joke edit to me. Or, at the very least - it links to a wrong Kampala.

5.164.213.158 (talk) 01:36, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Vandalism, reverted. BilCat (talk) 03:13, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Five mph
I just fixed a convert error in the article but am now wondering what the sentence means. Your edit from July 2015 (diff) included "5-mph bumper-equipped" which is now "Five miles per hour (8.0 km/h) bumper-equipped". Does that make sense? Johnuniq (talk) 22:51, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

 * It's a former US safety standard. See Bumper (car) for details. Perhaps "equipped with a bumper rated for five miles per hour (8.0 km/h)", and link to that article somewhere. BilCat (talk) 23:13, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Volkswagen Beetle


text:
Aggie Yell Leaders

The Aggie Yell Leaders are a group of Texas A&M University students that lead Aggie fans in a series of "yells" during athletic events or other school events. The Yell Leaders are composed of five students (three seniors and two juniors) who are elected annually by popular vote of the student body.

The Yell Leaders use a variety of hand signals, called "pass-backs," to direct and intensify the crowds. Notable former Aggie Yell Leaders include former Texas Governor and Secretary of Energy Rick Perry, trauma surgeon Dr. Red Duke and Texas State Representative Trent Ashby.

History
The Yell Leader tradition dates to 1907. According to A&M lore, the Aggies were being soundly defeated and a large number of women who had taken the train from Texas Woman's University in Denton were threatening to leave. The upperclassmen ordered the freshmen to find a way to keep the women entertained. Several freshmen sneaked into a maintenance closet and changed into white coveralls. They then began leading the crowd in yells and telling jokes from the track in front of the stands. It was an instant hit and was quickly incorporated into the gameday repertoire for the Aggies. However, the freshmen became a little too popular with the ladies and "it was decided that only upperclassmen would be allowed to participate in this entertainment in the future." While usually a position held by members of the Corps of Cadets, non-Corps students have been elected to the position. Ricky Wood, class of 2001, became the first non-corps Head Yell Leader in 2000–2001.

In the early 1990s, the student body elected its first African American yell leader, Ronnie McDonald, Class of 1993. In 1999, McDonald became the youngest African American to become a county judge in the history of Texas. Arouna "Boo Boo" Davies Jr., Class of 2002, became the second African American yell leader. In another exception, neither was a member of the Corps of Cadets.

Personnel
The Aggie Yell Leaders are composed of three seniors and two juniors, with one senior designated as "Head Yell Leader." They are elected annually, making A&M one of the few schools that still elects spirit leaders. Sometimes, more than twice as many students vote for yell leader candidates than vote in the Student Body President elections. Traditionally, the Yell Leaders are members of the Texas A&M University Corps of Cadets in keeping with A&M's military history, though "non-reg" students have occasionally earned election. The first "non-reg" elected as Yell Leader was John David Garner, class of 1961. Although women have campaigned for Yell Leader at the main Texas A&M campus in College Station, none have ever been elected. In 2005, however, Amanda Filkins '07 was elected as Junior Yell Leader at Texas A&M University at Galveston, which is the marine and maritime branch campus of Texas A&M University.

NCAA rules prevent the Yell Leaders from participating in athletic practices, but the Head Yell Leader can usually be found during two-a-days, running and lifting alongside the football team. The Yell Leaders, along with junior and senior cadets of the Fightin' Texas Aggie Band, and Seniors of the Fightin' Texas Aggie Singing Cadets are the only students on campus who receive a varsity letter without playing a sport.

The Yell Leaders attend all home and away football games, all home basketball games, some away basketball games, and selected home and away games for other sporting events. The 2023-2024 yell leaders are Head Yell Leader Trevor Yelton '24, Senior Yell Leaders Ethan Davis '24 and Thomas Grieve '24 and Junior Yell Leaders Grayson Poage '25 and Jake Carter '25.

Football-specific traditions
Besides their game-day duties, the Aggie Yell leaders are the Masters of Ceremonies at the Aggie pep-rally-type event known as Midnight Yell Practice. This event is held the night before a football game, at midnight, at Kyle Field for home games or at a designated location in the opposing team's city for away games. During these events, the Aggie Yell Leaders tell stories about ways in which "Ol' Rock" the prototypical Aggie defeats the upcoming opponents' mascots and lead the crowds in yells, so that all attendees know what to do in the coming game. They lead an additional, smaller, Yell Practice on the Thursday night before all away games (even bowl games), called Arch Yell, which is held in front of the 12 arches at the entryway to the Corps of Cadets quad area.

At the various yell practices, the Aggie Yell Leaders wear either maroon (seniors) or white (juniors) T-shirts and denim overalls that they decorate with maroon paint, often featuring their graduation year and various depictions of the A&M traditions. During sporting events, they always wear a white button-down shirt and white pants.

During a game, the Yell Leaders signal the crowd to start a yell by flashing pass backs. Once the signal is passed throughout the crowd, the Yell Leaders give the signal for the crowd to "hump it," or lean forward with hands just above their knees, and the yell begins. The theory behind "humpin' it" is that it aligns the back, neck and throat in the proper position to maximize the noise. They also use pass backs to signal when to sing the various school songs, in much the same way as cheerleaders lead songs at other schools.

When the Aggie football team is defeated at home, the crowd remains in the stands at the end of the game while the Aggie Yell Leaders conduct a short yell practice, including the singing of the song 12th Man, in preparation for the next week's game. If the Aggies win a home football game, the freshmen in the Corps of Cadets chase them around Kyle Field behind the 20 yard line, and, once they are captured, carry them across campus and toss them into Fish Pond, a fountain full of cold water. Meanwhile, the Aggie fans follow the Aggie Band as they leave Kyle Field and congregate in front of the Sbisa Dining Center, the current location of Fish Pond, for another Yell Practice. After the last Yell Leader has been thrown into Fish Pond, the soaking-wet Yell Leaders lead the fans in a yell practice against the following week's opponent.

List of Yell Leaders
The following is a list of Yell Leaders since 1907:

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Aggie Yell Leaders


text:
Talk:Gao Jianli

Untitled
This page needs context. Is this fact or myth? When did it happen? Where is this place? moink 01:27, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Looks like someone cut and pastef some text totally out of context. It probably needs a rewrite to avoid copyright violation.  Kowloonese 01:42, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't think it's a copyvio. I just think the author is lost and confused.  moink 04:58, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm pretty sure this is from Sima Qian. Brutannica 08:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

 * It is indeed from Sima Qian, and it's a direct translation of an excerpt of his work, so it's narrative rather than encyclopaedic. Not sure how appropriate that is for an entry. Extenebris (talk) 20:46, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gao Jianli


text:
Talk:Mercedes-Benz S-Class

Whole article is marketing speak !!!
This whole article is full to the brim with marketing, CEO and lawyer speak. Just look at the 6th gen section...Full of flattering remarks, how the exquisite substantial remarkable flaring body is accentuated by the magnificently sculpted silhouette of the rear panels.... and future tense verbs as if it's one big marketing flyer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Choice777 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Additionally, whoever copied it from the catalog didn't even bother to edit out the words obviously addressing a potential buyer "protects you" in the "safety" section. I suggest a rewrite. MikeTango (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

POV?
This article strikes me as quite non-NPOV. Perhaps it's due for a rewrite by somebody who's not a die-hard MB fan? Matt gies 01:27, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Amen!...it looks like promotional material rather than the views of impartial analysts.--Louis Epstein/le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 19:27, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think mention of Mercedes low reliability in recent years would be appropriate. Especially given Mercedes high reputation for reliability in the past, and the brand's high prices.

Precisely. And whoever said the 1999-2006 S-Class had 'rounded, graceful lines' is insane!
 * You are just as guilty of blatant POV for replacing "rounded, graceful lines" with "by no means a beautiful car." You should be ashamed of yourself! Please, let us all try to keep Wikipedia objective! Jagvar

 * To be quite frank, I think we should abstain from any commentary on the esthetic value of the car's design. What one person finds ugly another finds pretty (personally I like the W220's exterior design). Any reference to whether a car is beautiful or not are by nature POV, even if there is a review to be cited-which largely only have the authority of an op-ed piece to begin with. Regards,  Signature brendel  05:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, I hope the article will not be too NPOV. I would like to see an insightful and thought provoking article with a view rather than one that gives just the facts. The car is *** cm tall and all. Please keep the discussion flowing and try to reach a consensus.--who is kushal? 18:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Killed copyrighted text
I've deleted the features from the model list. The text was pulled straight from a Merc corporate page and I'd just as soon avoid any hassles. Anyone wishing to reword this into anything other than a direct copy&paste should see the history entry. --Milkmandan 04:11, 2005 Feb 25 (UTC)

Template
The Template "Road car timeline was not deleted but rather only moved form References to hitsory since this makes the page more user firendly Gerdbrendel 20:37, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Article needs to be edited
They do manufacture the S class (w220s) in South Africa and India; please could somebody verify this? I am not too sure about SA, but I'm sure that the W220 is made in India and they are going to replace it with the W221 soon. Kunalthaggarse

First S-Class was built in 1991?
This article doesn't make sense as laid out. The purpose of this page should be to explain the place the S-Class group of cars hold in society - the W pages can go into technical detail on each model; Certainly it's not supposed to promote W140 (the most reliable car ever made by humans according to this text, yet in real life a WSJ cover story in early 1990's pointed out W140's unreliability) PLawrence99cx March 2006

 * Yes the first S-Class rolled of the assembly line as a 1991 model year. The W140 was the first proper S-Class models, meaning that it was the first car to be called the S-Class. Before 1991 and before the W140 there were several models starting witht the letter S, they were refered to as the S-Family. Overall, this article discusses Mercedes' flagship sedans dating back to the fintails of the late 1950's up to the S-Class which started production in 1991 with the W140, before than it just wasn't called the S-Class. Also the statement: "the most reliable car ever made by humans" is totally POV and doesn't belong in the text. Thanks.  Signature brendel  05:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

You get this info where - a Benz press release? The big Benz has always colloquially been known as the "S-Class" in the english speaking world. Also, there is a logic problem here - this is a direct quote from this article: "The "S-Class" name was applied to the whole range with the W108/W109 series of 1965." Only big think that happened name wise was in 1994 Benz moved the 'S' from the back to the front of the model designation - big deal. Since multiple W articles link to this "S-Class" article, the article is clearly meant to cover the entire group of vehicles effectively. PLawrence99cx March 12 2006

If you do plan to enforce this bizarre rewrite of history known as the 'no S-Class before 1991' rule, you have a lot of editing ahead of you. From Wikipedia: "Mercedes-Benz W116: The Mercedes-Benz W116 automobiles were produced from 1972 through 1980. They were large (S-Class) luxury sedans, which replaced the W108/W109. The W116 was succeeded by the W126 S-Class in 1980. They were the most popular S-class built, with around 450,000 sold." Since the no S-Class logic makes no sense to me, can't help you, but good luck with it. BTW - the ref to W140s alleged reliability was actually on the W140 - you might start by fixing that POV. PLawrence99cx March 12 2006

Yes, the article covers the entire group and yes the moving of the letter S is a big deal! Of course in Germany the W116 is known as the S-Klasse too, but officially there wasn't any S-Class until 1991. Okay, yes the MB flagship has been called the S-Class long before 1991 but there was officially no actual S-Class 'til '91. There is often a difference between what people say on the street and what actually is. People may not always use the correct designation. MB realized its name system is confusing and said well, lets just call it what the people are calling it more or less, hence the name S-Class was officially given to the car only after the introduction of the W140. In the 1990s MB simplified all of its model names into classes, so officially there was not S-Class before the W140. Of course, here on wiki we want our info to be of use for everyone, so we have incoperated all the MB flagships into the S-Class article. Thank you. Regards,  Signature brendel  06:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

That helps explain the logic of the article - I recommend this explanation of colloquial "S-Class" vs. "official" S-Class be in the text. The article as written is confusing and contradicts itself. Again - countless pages in Wiki refer to this page, so either break those links or create an S-Class page that explains why non-"S-Class" vehicles would link to a post-W140 only page. FWIW - I think this is a bogus explanation - it's like saying that "VW Beetle" is an undefinable concept because VW never actually produced a vehicle with this badge. "S-Class" actually is a colloquial term used by hundreds of millions of people - the fact that Benz decided to use it also is a minor historical footnote. PLawrence99cx March 14 2006

It's not bogus, you said yourself, "That helps explain the logic of the article." Yes, you may think the fact that MB decided to use the name that was already being used "on the street" is "a minor historical footnote," but some may beg to differ. Besides this is an encyclopedia article. I have changed the wording a little, so the article isn't as confusing. Regards,  Signature brendel  00:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

So we agree on "That helps explain the logic of the article" - super. Now put the very good contextual text from 'talk' into the article. I suggest you look at the "Volkswagen Beetle" page for guidance. It does not start out saying "The first Volkswagen Beetle was produced in 1998." PLawrence99cx March 14 2006

I put om the phrase: "Even though the term S-Class is used to describe previous Mercedes-Benz flagships, such use of the term is colocial. The first offical Mercedes-Benz S-Class (that was actually called the Mercedes-Benz S-Class) was introduced for 1991 as the W140 series." Doesn't that help? Let me know. Regards,  Signature brendel  21:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Not a Benz scholar, but I found this on German Wiki: "Sie steht für luxuriöse Limousinen und Coupés. Nachdem bereits vorher die Spitzenmodelle von Mercedes-Benz die Bezeichnung S getragen hatten, erschien 1972 mit der Baureihe W116 die erste offiziell so genannte S-Klasse." Roughly it means: "It stands for luxurioese sedans and Coupés. After the top models of Mercedes Benz had already before carried the designation S, 1972 with the series W116 appeared the first officially S-class so mentioned." Hope that helps. My main issue has always been that if a reader is researching say W108 S-Class, they shouldn't mysteriously end up on a page that tells them there was no such thing as an S-Class back then. Looks like that is fixed. Thanks! PLawrence99cx March 18 2006

Actually I'm German but thanks for the translation (good job ;-)). I am also a user on the German Wiki and we actually had pretty much the same debate there as we did just now right here. Regards,  Signature brendel  02:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge
I came across Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse today. Any reason why it shouldn't be merged into this article? Klasse is just class in German. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 10:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this an article in the English Wiki? If so, yes of course it needs to be merged. S-Klasse is just German for S-Class. So, yes I please merge the two articles. Thank you. Regards,  Signature brendel  17:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, it is in the English Wikipedia. I didn't foresee an issue, but I figured I'd go through the usual merging process anyway.  As it has been seven days with no opposition, I'll merge it in. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 04:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, after reviewing the Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse further, there isn't anything to merge. Everything appears to be already in the article, often word for word. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 04:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Then the article should be deleted since there is no neeed to have a S-Klasse and S-Class article.  Signature brendel  04:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I just made it a redirect as redirects are cheap and easy. Potentially someone could search using this term, however, I'd think the chances are slim, so if you want to put it on WP:RfD, go ahead. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 04:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

No, its good enough the way it is. I think a redirect is just prefect. Good idea! Thanks.  Signature brendel  04:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Air Suspension
There are numberous references to 'Air suspension' in Benz articles, starting with W100, yet they all contain a rather useless link to "Automobile (suspension)" - suggest text or article describing Benz 'Air suspension' setup - anyone know anything about it? PLawrence99cx March 14 2006

 * As there are other luxury vehicles such as the Lincoln Town Car who use air suspensions, an article on air suspension should contain desriptions of all air suspension. In other words an article for just the Benz suspension would be to specific, rather the article should contain information relating to air suspensions in general. Regards,  Signature brendel  21:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree - it's a technology, not a feature found only on one brand. Do you know much about it? PLawrence99cx March 18 2006

 * Unfortunately I am not an expert on the issue. While I love cars riding on air suspensions, my knowledge on the subject is merely enough for a short stub. But I'm glad we see eye to eye on the editorial attributes. Thanks.  Signature brendel  02:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Too NOPV?
IMHO, the article should not be too NPOV. I would like to see an insightful and thought-provoking article with a view rather than one that gives just the facts. Quotations from "reputable" (do we have a consensus on which auto magazines are reputable?) auto magazines will be welcome in this talk page and also in the article page. bare facts like "The car is *** cm tall, the engine's torque is blah blah" would be informative but boring and all. So, please keep the discussion flowing and try to reach a consensus. --who is kushal? 18:04, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Well this is an encyclopeadia, not a popular magazine. The article needs to be as NPOV as possible. If that means sacreficing some entertainment value, than that may be unfortunate but neccessary. Regards,  Signature brendel  HAPPY HOLIDAYS 06:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Just to note, since the recent redesign of the article, the informative aspect was combined with ease of reading in mind; hopefully the added details and context improves the flow and makes the article fact-based and informative yet interesting. Enigma3542002 05:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Reliability
My subject on the reliability of the S-Class, something that was regularly mentioned in reports and reviews of this car, has been deleted. What is the justification for excluding information on reliability? Cars that have a reputation for reliability, such as the Lexus LS, include this information. Why should we not include information about reliability in articles about cars that have a reputation for poor reliability? Jagvar claims that this is refutable and not objective, but what is not objective about Consumer Reports? And if it is refutable, then please, Jagvar, engage in some refutation. Penser 13:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)penser

What is going on here? How is it that important information about the reliability of the S-Class is being deleted under the specious claim that there is not data, or that is opinion on my part. I am virtually the ONLY ONE who has cited their sources. I've provided two references for this information about the S-Class, which isn't exactly some secret, by the way. The car is famous for poor reliability, and that should have a place in an article about the car. Apparently some people here just want the page to sound like a brochure for Mercedes. Now if you want to make the case for why reliability shouldn't be included here, then make the case instead of anonymously deleting my work. Penser 01:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)penser

 * The last thing I want is for this page to sound like a "brochure." I am just as diligent about making sure that the positive opinions are removed from the page as well as the negative ones. "Reliability" sections are almost always removed in any automotive article because they are just too iffy. All cars have reliability issues. Frankly, I don't see anything particularly significant about the S-Class' reliability issues. A search of Consumer Reports will yield reliability concerns with the BMW 7 Series and Jaguar XJ as well. Now, if the issue of reliability was so enormous that it caused the car to be pulled from production (i.e. the Ford Pinto), THEN it would make sense to dedicate a section of an encyclopedia article to reliability. And even then, you would need concrete statistical data (for example, there were 27 documented deaths attributed to the Pinto's design flaw). If you don't cite statistics, you are not citing measureable data.

 * Also, Consumer Reports is not the definitive resource on automobiles. It is a publication which offers reviews, and as such can't be considered a concrete resource on its own. Quotes from Consumer Reports are best used to support more objective sources like the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

 * All of the automotive editors work very hard for objectivity, and I hope you can understand that. Jagvar 05:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Lets examine your arguments. You claim that all cars have reliability issues. Of course that's true. And all countries have poor people, and crime, and rich people etc. The crucial issue is supplying some aggregate data that gives a general picture of poverty, or crime in a country. Similarly, when discussing cars, aggregate reliability is important. It's one of the top selling points of Toyotas and Lexuses, which are generally boring and plain compared to competitors. Similarly, poor reliability is a well-known problem with recent S-Classes, and it would be bizarre not to have it mentioned in an article about the car.

Do other cars have poor reliability? Yes, and that should be noted in their articles as well.

Cars with poor reliability don't need to be pulled from sale. That typically applies to serious safety defects in particular.

As for statistics, that is what Consumer Reports collects and reports. The statistics they collect (corraborated by Auto Pacific and others) show that owners of Mercedes S-Class (and all other Mercedes) have significantly more problems than most cars in their class.

Consumer Reports is not just "a publication which offers reviews." It is the most influential and respected source of information for car buyers in North America. It is distinguished by several crucial factors:

1. It accepts no advertising. This completely insulates it from pressure to pad its reviews and not be too harsh for fear of losing ad revenue from a disgruntled carmaker. It is non-profit and relies on subscriptions and donations to Consumers Union, the parent organization.

2. It buys all of the cars it tests anonymously at real dealerships. By doing this, it ensure that it obtains a car in a manner similar to how a consumer would buy a vehicle, and guards against getting "a ringer" or a car that is carefully checked for defects and fit and finish.

3. It conducts its own research by surveying its readers, which means that it surveys millions of cars each year.

Penser 07:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)penser

 * You make a good case. I do see your point, I've discussed this over at Wikiproject:Automobiles, and we've reached a consensus that, for essentially the reasons you've stated above, the cited Consumer Reports quote should stay (and I have indeed left it intact). We talked about merging reliability with engineering since they are closely linked, and I think someone is going to do that.

 * So yes, the Consumer Reports information will remain, but just be careful about making sweeping statements in an opinionated tone. For example, I was a little shocked to read "did much to shed the image of reliability that Mercedes-Benz once enjoyed," on an encyclopedia article. At this point, that is my one and only concern.

 * I am sorry I didn't voice my reasoning on the talk page sooner. It is never my intention to aggravate anyone. Jagvar 16:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I suppose the tone of an encyclopedia must be more dispassionate. Penser 01:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)penser

 * Just wanted to note that the notion that there is a consensus on that seems premature - I, for example, have been pretty vocal in my disagreement to including CR results. PrinceGloria 10:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Article improvements
Greetings all, I was wondering about how this article could be improved. Does anyone think that perhaps the sections could be adjusted somewhat? I think that the article's flow might be improved if additional subsections are included, rather than having a list of same-level sections for topics of differing importance. For instance, perhaps the Ocean Drive Concept section and S-class robots section could be placed under the heading of "S-class concepts," or since the robots were tested in 1995, under the W140 section.

Furthermore, reading through the article, it seems that in some cases single sentences are counted as paragraphs. That is a newspaper-like style, which works, but perhaps some of those sentences could be combined into a paragraph with a topic sentence added (for instance updates to a vehicle). I am also curious as to the generation infoboxes, as to whether the details included are consistent (W126 in particular). And is it also possible to expand the lead section to better represent the scope of the article?

Also, I realize that the awards section was deleted, due to lack of sources and the way it was written. However, a widely held opinion is that the S-class is the benchmark of the luxury flagship sedan class. Good articles such as Lincoln Town Car include awards sections, highlighting noteworthy achievements of the vehicle. That What Car? magazine awarded the S-class "Best Luxury Car" seven times and Fleet News' listed it as "Luxury Car of the Year" five times speaks to its prestigious reputation as an automotive benchmark. Perhaps these could be included, if properly referenced and entered using an "Indented List with content" (as done in the Lincoln TC article and supported in Embedded_list)?

Finally, with the addition of references, perhaps the style of notation could be revised to include a references section with identifiable HTML, etc. reference information/links? Just some ideas I'd like to toss out there.

Regards, Enigma3542002 00:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Since I have some abundance of time today, I have decided to be bold and attempt some improvements. Enigma3542002 05:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's looking good, Enigma. Make good use of the edit summaries so it's easy to see what changes you're making. Anyway, kudos and thanks for the hard work. Jagvar 21:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the input. I have tried to increase use of edit summaries, although I tend to make a lot of minor edits despite using the preview/sandbox a lot.  Anyhow, I have completed most of the objectives I set out earlier.  I also went through each of the S-Class generational articles linked from this page, and aligned them to be more uniform in style (hopefully making cross-referencing easier). Enigma3542002 01:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Original article before edits here: Enigma3542002 00:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

S-Class timeline
Per brendel's good suggestion, I have created a simple navigation box for the entire S-Class vehicles. This makes it possible to navigate the S-Class chronology, which is only partially included in the road and classic timelines. Each article has the navigation box now: Template:Mercedes-Benz S-Class lineage. Enigma3542002 08:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sieht ja gut aus! (Looks good :D).  Signature brendel  00:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to change the formatting, if possible, so that the "Mercedes-Benz S-Class timeline" isn't collapsed by default? Seems wiki had a change; before if there were 3 such navigation boxes they would autoload in collapsed format. Now it's 2 evidently, with the first not collapsed. It's easier to 1-click navigate the S-Class chronology with the timeline opened, not to mention simple to see the entire S-Class chronology which otherwise is hidden. Perhaps placing the S-Class timeline box above the road vehicle timeline? Enigma3542002 23:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Thx to whoever made it so the chronology box remains open. Enigma3542002 20:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I hope Gerd and all the good people will approach this issue with their usual degree of professionalism - both the article and the timeline are trying to establish an entity that doesn't formally exist in the way it is described - the Mercedes S-Klasses are only the W116 and onwards officially, however well-meaning might the argumentation be that previous models belong to the "lineage". For me, the German article would be quite authoritative here (not to mention facts are facts and it's up to the manufacturer to call a vehicle this or that) - and it only lists the five last models... PrinceGloria 19:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, it's true that the earlier vehicles are not directly called "S-Class," however MB USA themselves advertises the W221 as the "Ninth Generation S-Class."  The article makes it pretty clear that the earlier versions were not called S-Class, but were typically the top-ranked vehicle in the MB lineup. Enigma3542002 20:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

 * One possibility would be to adjust the infobox to show specific S-Class vs. predecessor models by additional labeling. Enigma3542002 20:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, that's surprising for me - this is the first time see Mercedes acknowledging (in a way) the pre-W116 models as "S-Klasses". I still believe this is rather apocryphal and can be mentioned in the article, but the article should not deal with cars earlier than W116. Regards, PrinceGloria 07:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

 * The article now separates out the classes by official and predecessor. SynergyStar (talk) 01:29, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Models
Nowadays S-Class models include :

 * Gasoline:
 * Mercedes-Benz S 350, V6 Cylinder,  200 kW (272 HP),  7G-Tronic automatic with speedtronic cruise control
 * Mercedes-Benz S 500, V8 Cylinder  285 kW (388 HP),  7G-Tronic automatic with speedtronic cruise control
 * Mercedes-Benz S 63 AMG, V8 Cylinder  386 kW (525 HP)  7G-Tronic automatic with tipfunction & speedtronic cruise control

 * Diesel:
 * Mercedes-Benz S 320 CDI, V6 Cylinder  173 KW (235 HP)  7G-Tronic automatic with speedtronic cruise control

Where can one include them in the article ?. --Mac (talk) 10:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Hi, these models are listed in the article already in the chart: Mercedes-Benz_S-Class (it says S300(280), S350, S450, S550(500), S600, S320/S420 CDI, S63, S65).

 * If you would like to add more details, the main article is here: Mercedes-Benz W221 (chassis code). The reason why your wikilinks are inactive (red) is because of the space; the articles use e.g. Mercedes-Benz S350 not S 350. Regards, SynergyStar (talk) 05:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Can someone remove the photos of all these horrid US Mercedes?
I keep seeing these photos of Mercedes which have been ruined by having the headlights replaced with tiny little bulbs that look so pathetic. Can we please only post photos in this article of ORIGINAL specification Mercedes, as produced by the factory in Germany? Thanks. Davez621 (talk) 01:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

W221 introduced in 2006, not 2007
I've fixed up a couple of things - in two places in the article, it stated that the current model (W221) was introduced in 2007. It actually went on sale in early 2006. I have fixed these mistakes. Davez621 (talk) 01:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Dates don't coincide
Hello, i'm actually translating the Mercedes-Benz S-Class article to spanish (for spanish wiki), but when i'm checking the dates of the car's production i find a few mistakes with the dates between the main S-Class article and the diferent versions articles.

1. The W180 ("Ponton") in main art. is dated 1955-1957 and in their own art. is dated 1954-1959. Moreover in the own W180 art. it is said that is sometimes identified with the E-Class, but the "Ponton" and first E-Class model is the W120/121.

2. The W112 ("Fintail") is dated in main art. as 1961-1967 and in their own art. is dated 1961-1965.

3. The W116 is dated in main art. as 1972-1979 and in their own art. as 1972-1980.

4. The W126 is dated in main art. 1980-1990 and in their own as 1979–1991 (sedan) and 1981–1992 (coupé).

5. The W220 main as 1999-2006 and in own art. as 1998-2006.

I hope you understand what i'm trying to say.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Setita (talk • contribs) 15:34, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Hello, i found in Mercedes-Benz Spain, Mercedes-Benz France, Mercedes-Benz Belgium and Mercedes-Benz Portugal the date of release of the MB 220a (W180), it was in 1954 and not in 1955 like in the main S-Class article and the W126 released in 1979 and not in 1980, like in the infobox. I will change those dates. Setita

 * I have changed the W126 infobox photo too cause the previous one looks very old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Setita (talk • contribs) 15:32, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Safety Features
Modern ABS was first an option on the 1971 Imperial, called the Sure Brake system. Airbags were available on some 1970's GM cars, under the name ACRS (Air Cushion Restraint System)Starbase89 —Preceding undated comment added 07:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC).

Mercedes-Benz S-Class Hybrid
Should this article be merged here? At the very least, considering Talk:Toyota Camry Hybrid it should at least be discussed. --Falcadore (talk) 07:55, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

 * That article is merely a stub, and the main contributors haven't edited in years, you could be bold and merge it into the W221 (2005) section. SynergyStar (talk) 20:01, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Redirect has already been done to Mercedes-Benz W221 at stub article page. No longer need to have merger tags. SynergyStar (talk) 01:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Automatic Transmission
A 4-speed automatic transmission came along as a standard equipment with the upper-line V8 models only (380SE, 380SEL, 380 SEC, 420SE, 420 SEL, 420SEC, 500SE, 500 SEL, 500 SEC, 560 SE, 560 SEl, 560 SEC) but was a to-pay-for option for the smaller 6-cylinder engines (280 SE, 280 SEL, 300 SE, 300 SEL), which in Mercedes` domestic market and Europe made up the largest chunk of the s-class sales.

Option 42/0 (automatic transmission for the `smaller` 6-cylinder models) called for a healthy extra 2169,60 German Mark in 1982, which made it the 3rd most expensive option after air conditioning (option 58/0 and 58/1, 3367,40 resp. 4045,40 German Mark) and the those days brand-new ABS-system (option 47/0, 2599 German Mark), with the exception of a car telephone which in its `cheapest` version (Becker AT 76 S) was 22362,80 German Mark, nearly the equivalent of a W 123 Mercedes 200 (24,408 German Mark).

Early 6-cylinder models (280 SE/280 SEL) initially featured a serial 4-speed manual gearbox with a 5-speed manual gearbox available as a surcharge option (Option 42/8, 1011,35 German Mark in 1982, about half the price for the automatic gearshift and certainly, for the rev-loving M- 110 engine, the better choice - top speed for a 280 SE with 5-speed manual gearbox was clocked 211,7 Km/h by the german "auto,motor&sport" car magazin in 1982, which left the car with practically no top speed to catch up with the 380 SE, but fairly better accelerations and considerably less consumption.)

However with the mid-age refreshment of the W126 S-class in early 1985, a 5 speed manual transmission finally became standard on the newly introduced 300 SE/300 SE.

Possibly no US-version ever saw a delivery without an automatic transmission as a standard feature (which could explain the information given in the encylopedia), but I do not have a clue about US-equipment standards. (Nogaret 28/01/2011 14:58 MEZ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.20.124.68 (talk) 14:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Acceleration
is the 50-70mph time of 3.9s correct? that seems slow for a 500hp+ car capable of hitting 60 in under 5s. As comparison my 370bhp Lancer Evo is 1.9s in 3rd gear (although it's nearly 1000kg lighter) and I'd expect a rear driven, bigger HP car to be better as it speeds up compared to a 4wd car. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.226.10 (talk) 11:31, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Isn't the W187 the real start of the S-Class lineage?
The 1951 W187 is, and is listed in Wikipedia as, the immediate predecessor of the W180 Ponton. The M180/130 engine which, with it's derivatives, was the main powerplant for the S-Class until the introduction of the W116 in 1972, was first introduced in the W187.

Also note that in S-Class Timeline, Enigma3542002 states that MBUSA  advertises the W221 as the "Ninth Generation S-Class." Only by including the W187 can this be justified: 1. W187 2. W180 3. W111 4. W108 5. W116 6. W126 7. W140 8. W220 9. W221 The W187 itself has no direct predecessor in either the pre- or post-war period and I would propose that we insert this model as the beginning of the line and take the S-Class's start date to April 1951.

Jhswalwell (talk) 18:27, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

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German governments
The timespans of S-Class models are the same as timespans of German governments...

Removal request
''Engineering Historically, the engineering of the S-Class was claimed[by whom?] to have been designed without regard to cost, a practice that continued unfettered up through the W140 line.[citation needed]''

Wouldn't it make sense to remove this text passage until sources and citations have been provided? Bitbybittlab (talk) 11:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

update
where is latest S class mercedes models in this like S350, S450 and all other available? Monank17 (talk) 21:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mercedes-Benz S-Class


text:
Midnight Yell Practice

Midnight Yell Practice, known locally as Midnight Yell or Yell Practice, is a tradition at Texas A&M University. Midnight Yell is similar to a pep rally. On the night before each home football game, Midnight Yell takes place in Kyle Field at midnight; two nights before each away game, a Yell Practice (not at midnight) is held near the Quadrangle on the south side of campus. At midnight on the night before an away game Midnight Yell is held in or near the opponent's city.

Besides exciting the crowd, Midnight Yell introduces the student body to any new yells and to practice changes to existing yells. All yell practices are led by the Yell Leaders, a set of five students who are elected to one-year terms by the student body.

History
Yell Practice began in 1913, while A&M was still an all-male military school. Several companies would gather together to "learn heartily the old time pep."

The first Midnight Yell was held in 1932. Two freshmen asked the senior Yell Leaders to hold a midnight practice so that students would be motivated for the upcoming football game against archrival Texas Longhorns. The Yell Leaders said that while they liked the idea, they  couldn't authorize a Yell Practice at that hour. However, they said that they just might "show up" at the campus YMCA Building that evening around midnight. The Fightin' Texas Aggie Band met them at the YMCA, and soon the bulk of the student body had gathered. The cadets used railroad flares to light the event, and a tradition was born.

In September 2022, the tradition received national media coverage after the Aggies' football loss to App State Mountaineers. The yell practice video shot before Texas A&M's 17-14 loss to App State was called "embarrassing" and "cringeworthy". The clips appeared to vanish from the internet after Texas A&M took down video clips on Twitter claiming copyright, but were soon reposted.

Home games
Since that first Midnight Yell, the event has been held on the night before each home football game. The Fightin' Texas Aggie Band and the five Yell Leaders lead a parade from the Quadrangle, where the Corps dorms are located. Students and alumni line the route from the Quadrangle to Kyle Field, falling into line once those in front of them have passed. Students and alumni gather in the student section of the stands. At midnight, the yell practice begins. The Corps Juniors used to guard Kyle Field all night against students from other schools who may try to pull pranks the night before the game. This job has since been taken over by University Police but only the Corps Juniors are allowed to stand on the track around the Field in recognition of this tradition.

In a departure from their starched white game-day uniforms, at Midnight Yell the Yell Leaders typically wear painted denim overalls and T-shirts. With the senior Yell Leaders looking on, the junior Yell Leaders assemble at midfield and begin doing pushups. The pushups last for approximately nine minutes (3 songs played by the Aggie Band about 3 minutes each). When the juniors are finished, Reveille, the Texas A&M mascot, is escorted onto the field.

The five Yell Leaders then arrange themselves in front of the stands and begin leading the yells. All yells are coordinated using hand signals. When the yell is ready to begin, the head Yell Leader gives a signal and the crowd "humps it," with every person leaning forward to maximize the volume of their voices.

During the Yell Practice the crowd, which generally numbers 20,000 to 25,000 people, is led in the yells. The school songs "Aggie War Hymn" and "Spirit of Aggieland" are sung, the Yell Leaders will also tell two fables about how the Aggies are going to beat their opponent the next day.

At one point during the night the stadium lights are turned off and, traditionally, Aggies are supposed to kiss their dates (called "mugging down"). This relates to another student tradition: "When One Aggie Scores, All Aggies Score." When the Aggies score a touch down, safety, or field goal, everyone in the student body who has brought a date to the game kisses his/her date.

If no date is present, single students light their cigarette lighters, commonly referred to as "flicking your Bic," to make it easier for two dateless people to find each other in the dark.

Away games
If the game is an away game, a yell called an Arch (or Grove) Yell is held on campus the Thursday before the game, and a Midnight yell is held in a location in the away city. For example, if the annual game against the University of Texas is held in Austin the Midnight Yell is held on the steps of the Texas State Capitol. Grove yells were held at The Grove, an outdoor theater near the MSC which was torn down in 2003. Since then, they have been held in front of the twelve arches that mark the entrance to the Corps of Cadets quad area. Arch yells are usually at 7 PM, the attendance is much smaller (usually only the Corps of Cadets) but the tradition of "mugging down" is still followed.

After-game Yell Practices
After a victorious home football game, the Yell Leaders are tackled by the freshmen in the Corps and thrown into Fish Pond. Afterwards, the Aggie Band meets up with them and an informal yell practice ensues on the steps of the YMCA building. Should the Aggies run out of time (that is, lose) in a football game, a yell practice is held in the stands "to display the continuing support for the Aggie team and to prepare for the next game."

title: Midnight Yell Practice


text:
Talk:Phonotactics

No onset /ŋ/ or /ʒ/?
What about pleasure and azure? Those are the classic examples of /ʒ/ and both have syllables that begin with /ʒ/. 63.247.160.139 (talk) 23:10, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Many phonologists believe that the /ʒ/ in those words is in the coda of the first syllable rather than the onset of the second. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Who? Who are these "many phonologists" you refer to? The requirement for a syllable onset is the universally unmarked state, whereas syllables with codas are universally more marked than codaless ones - so much so that English entirely lacks onsetless syllables - any syllable that would otherwise begin with a vowel has an epenthetic glottal stop inserted to satisfy the onset requirement (if you're a native speaker, just try it out for yourself: say the word "Anna" a few times in a row and you'll feel it, and if you still don't believe me, record yourself speaking and plot it out in PRAAT or similar software and you'll see the acoustic "bump" in the waveform where the glottis closed and reopened, and a sudden transition to the vowel in the spectrogram). Using your logic, pleasure and azure should be pronounced *'plɛʒ.ʔɚ and *'æʒ.ʔɚ. Quite literally the only counterexample I can think of is Breen's analysis of Arrernte, and that's hardly an uncontroversial subject in and of itself. 79.176.36.183 (talk) 09:52, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Even if that were accepted, it would be hard to account for a word like . 2001:18E8:2:11B5:F000:0:0:81B (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

No onset /ŋ/ is English one of the main difficulties for English speakers learning the Māori_language. Māori does have onset /ŋ/,, e.g. ngā /ŋā/ = the (plural definite article). Nick Mulgan (talk) 02:26, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Theoretically permissible/foreign vs. outright impermissible?
There seem to be two basic kinds of phonotactic constraints: Point is, these two sorts of phonotactic constraint seem fundamentally different in ways that should be basic to any discussion of phonotactics, and phonotactic investigations that ignore that distinction seem fundamentally wrongfooted. Do the major academic sources bear this out? And if not, why not?
 * Sounds that do not occur in the language, but that native speakers have little trouble articulating when pressed, and that are readily pronounced if imported as a foreign word (e.g., English borrowings Tlingit, sphere, Sbarro). An ending cluster such as "lzh" doesn't occur in English, and is forbidden by most lists of English phonotactics, but a native Anglophone could and probably would pronounce it if it formed part of a foreign loanword (**"dalzh," etc.).
 * Sounds that native speakers cannot pronounce, or can pronounce only with great difficulty. In this latter case, native speakers substitute for the sound (vowel insertion, metathesis, etc.) or simplify it (e.g., /kn/ > /n/) if obliged to say the word. For this sort of phonotactic constraint, consider the initial clusters in foreign words such as xylem and Tbilisi.

Examples Needed
When listing consonant formations, examples of words that include those formations aren't just helpful, they're practically mandatory.2600:1702:3940:92D0:BD67:4531:9ABF:CA1D (talk) 08:14, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Graduate Phonology
— Assignment last updated by Ashf1879 (talk) 12:32, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Removal of entire section
IMO this edit, removing the entire "In other languages" section, ought to have been discussed first. No reason has been stated in the edit summary either. --Pegasovagante (talk) 06:29, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Affricates in Complex Onsets
Although /dʒɹ/ and /tʃɹ/ exist only in place of /dɹ/ and /tɹ/, it stills seems contradictory to state "no affricates or /h/ in complex onsets" while the "English phonotactics" section (correctly) lists the word stream as an example of an affricate within a complex onset. Robdawg344 (talk) 18:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Phonotactics


text:
Granny Weatherwax

Esmerelda "Esme" Weatherwax (also Granny Weatherwax or Mistress Weatherwax) is a fictional character from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. She is a witch and member of the Lancre coven. She is the self-appointed guardian of her small country, and frequently defends it against supernatural powers. She is one of the Discworld series's main protagonists, having major roles in seven novels.

She is a very powerful witch, and is reckoned to be more powerful than the most well-known witch on the Discworld, Black Aliss. Granny says in Lords and Ladies that she "learned my craft from Nanny Gripes, who learned it from Goody Heggety, who got it from Nanna Plumb, who was taught it by Black Aliss". The witches of the Lancre coven reflect the roles of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, with Granny being most associated with the Crone (tactfully referred to as "the other one").

Due to her prowess, Granny Weatherwax is first among equals of the Ramtops witches: "Witches are not by nature gregarious, at least with other witches, and they certainly don't have leaders. Granny Weatherwax was the most highly-regarded of the leaders they didn't have." In Wyrd Sisters, the ghost of the King of Lancre addresses her as "Doyenne of Witches" ("Senior Lady of Witches"). Granny Weatherwax's reputation extends to other species: the Trolls of the Ramtops call her "Aaoograha hoa" ("She Who Must Be Avoided"; mentioned in Maskerade), the Dwarf call her "K'ez'rek d'b'duz" ("Go Around the Other Side of the Mountain"; also mentioned in Maskerade), and the Nac Mac Feegle call her "The Hag O' Hags" ("The High Witch").

Family and background
According to Witches Abroad, Esmerelda "Esme" (later "Granny") Weatherwax is the younger of two daughters. Her father was a hunter who taught her that "a bad hunter chases, a good hunter waits" (Lords and Ladies). Little is revealed about her mother except that she had a long illness and Esme nursed her until her death.

Magical ability runs in the Weatherwax family; a distant cousin, the wizard Galder Weatherwax, is Archchancellor of Unseen University at the time of The Light Fantastic. When Esme was a child, her older sister Lily began misusing magic and behaving in a "wanton" and "wilful" manner. Lily left home as a teenager and never returned to Lancre.

By the time Esme reached her teens, she was determined to become a witch. She occasionally struggles with temptation to become a "wicked witch", but also feels obligated to be "the good one" to balance her sister. In Lords and Ladies she reveals that she was not chosen as an apprentice by an established witch, but "camped on old Nanny Gripes' garden until she promised to tell me everything she knew. Hah. That took her a week I had the afternoons free... No  chose..."). As a young woman, Esme was involved in a summer-long romance with student wizard Mustrum Ridcully, but ultimately they were both committed to their respective paths of witchcraft and wizardry. She was also acquainted with Gytha Ogg, who is about the same age, although their friendship does not develop until they are older. Esme eventually became the witch for village of Bad Ass and the Kingdom of Lancre as a whole.

Granny, as she comes to be known, is in her 70s or 80s during the events of Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum. She dies quietly at home at the beginning of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown. When Death comes for her, he tells her that her candle will continue to flicker long after her passing and that she has left the world in a better condition than it was when she entered it. Author Neil Gaiman, a friend of Pratchett's, has said that Pratchett died before writing a scene he had intended for the ending of The Shepherd's Crown. According to Gaiman, this would have revealed that Granny's spirit had lingered to watch over her young successor Tiffany Aching, and that when she did finally depart with Death it was on her own terms.

Appearance
Granny Weatherwax has striking blue eyes and a penetrating gaze, a hooked nose, and a determined set to her jaw. In Equal Rites she is described as "handsome", having an excellent complexion, no warts, and all her teeth, although it is implied she finds this a bit inappropriate for a witch. Granny is thin, mentioning in Lords and Ladies that she weighs 9 st, and is described as being taller than Nanny Ogg and Magrat.

She typically wears a plain black dress, a somewhat battered black cloak (occasionally lined with dark red) and a tall, pointed witch's hat, skewered to her "iron-hard grey bun" hairstyle with multiple hatpins. Her broom is a hand-me-down from another witch, Hilta (Equal Rites), and has been repaired many times. Due to its age, it requires the user to pick up speed by running along the ground before taking off.

Personality
Granny Weatherwax has a near-unshakeable, and usually accurate, belief in her own abilities. She believes in doing what is right rather than what is easy or even what seems "nice". Granny appreciates practicality and hard work, and distrusts fiction and theater because of their powerful influence on people's minds.

The journal Gender Forum has posited that Granny Weatherwax bears some similarity to Sam Vimes and Death. All three are effectively 'good' characters, who exert a rigid control over the darkness inside themselves, which they secretly fear but (crucially to their characters) are able to conquer.

According to The Pratchett Portfolio Granny's typical saying is: "I can't be having with that kind of thing".

Powers
Granny is adept at 'Borrowing', the art of overlaying her mind on the mind of another creature so that she can see through its eyes and steer its actions. She can sense the moods of plants, animals, and even places such as the Kingdom of Lancre and Unseen University. While Borrowing, her body falls into a deathlike trance; it is revealed in Lords And Ladies that in order to prevent embarrassing accidents, she has taken to wearing a placard reading "I ATE'NT DEAD" when she does so (when she actually died, she edited this placard to state "I IS PROBLY DEAD", with 'ATE'NT' scratched out).

Although capable of powerful magic, Granny Weatherwax prefers to avoid using it. She often relies on headology, a sort of folk-psychology that makes use of the placebo and nocebo effects. For instance, although Granny is capable of placing curses upon people who anger her, she will instead simply allow them to believe that she has cursed them. This causes the "cursed" person to worry and attribute any misfortune they experience to the "curse". Nanny Ogg has implied that this avoidance of magic prevents Granny from being tempted into becoming a very successful "bad" witch. In The Sea and Little Fishes, Nanny Ogg attributes Granny's magical abilities more to hard work than innate talent.

Because of her reluctance to openly use magic, Granny Weatherwax is sometimes accused by others of "working by trickery alone", and of "having little or no real power". Yet when the need arises, Granny Weatherwax has demonstrated skills such as psychokinesis (Lords and Ladies) and pyrokinesis (The Sea and Little Fishes). In Wyrd Sisters she sends the entire nation of Lancre forward in time fifteen years to allow the lost heir to come of age.

Reception and legacy
A fossil species of Mesozoic ginkgo has been named Ginkgoites weatherwaxiae in Granny Weatherwax's honour.

title: Granny Weatherwax


text:
Nanny Ogg

Gytha Ogg (usually called Nanny Ogg) is a character from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. She is a witch and a member of the Lancre Coven. Gytha is known for her practical approach to magic and her no-nonsense attitude. She is also renowned for her culinary skills and is an excellent cook. Gytha Ogg is often depicted as a strong, capable, and independent character, with a sharp sense of humor. She frequently appears in the Discworld series, particularly in the books featuring the Lancre witches.

Personality
The character of Nanny Ogg is based on someone Pratchett knew in real life, "an old lady who liked a drink and a laugh, but...I suspect you could find someone like her on any street." Discworld illustrator Paul Kidby expressed a similar view of the character, writing, "I like to think we all know someone like Nanny Ogg, a person who enjoys a drink and has led a happy and full life."

Nanny Ogg has been married three times, and is the mother of fifteen children and has many grandchildren and great-grandchildren. She has a talent for getting along with others. As described in Maskerade, after knowing her for fifteen minutes, people feel as if they have known her all of their lives.

Comparison with Granny
Nanny Ogg is a more down-to-earth character than Esme Weatherwax. Granny Weatherwax comes across as judgmental, whereas Nanny is broadminded. She appears to be kinder than Granny but is prepared to make tough decisions if necessary. Incurring Nanny's wrath is suggested to be dangerous of her kind personality. In Pratchett's short story "The Sea and Little Fishes" Nanny Ogg also identifies herself, and the Ogg family as a whole, as having immense natural magical talent, but less willing to work hard as do the Weatherwaxes.

Unlike Granny Weatherwax, and the stereotype of witches in general, Nanny Ogg does not live in an isolated cottage but in a well-looked-after townhouse in the capital of Lancre with her eldest and youngest sons living to either side. Her house is called Tir Nani Ogg ("Nanny Ogg's place", and a pun on the Tír na nÓg, the Gaelic name for the Land of the Ever-Young). She shares this home with Greebo, a tomcat of evil aura and aroma and astonishing viciousness, whom she still sees as a sweet kitten.

Exploits
Nanny enjoys food and drink, despite only having one remaining tooth. Within the Discworld universe, Nanny has written several books: The Joye of Snacks (a cookbook of aphrodisiac recipes, the publication of which plays a role in the plot of Maskerade), Mother Ogg's Tales For Tiny Folk and Nanny Ogg's Cookbook.

When she is drunk or bathing, Nanny sings bawdy songs such as "The Hedgehog Can Never Be Buggered At All" or "The Hedgehog Song." Only a few lines appear in the Discworld books, but many readers have written their versions. Another Nanny Ogg song is "A Wizard's Staff has a Knob on the End," a version of which has been written by Heather Wood, with music by Dave Greenslade. It is also notable that Nanny Ogg once gave Agnes Nitt lessons on how to sing, including how to sing in harmony with herself (using her alter ego, Perdita).

Nanny Ogg is known for her romantic exploits. She has a very cheerful, practical attitude regarding sexuality and frequently offers unsolicited advice and anecdotes. As a young woman, she was the muse and subject of Leonard of Quirm's masterpiece, the Mona Ogg. While she had numerous sexual partners as an unmarried woman and later as a widow, she claims that she was never unfaithful to any of her husbands while married.

Nanny Ogg is very funny and has a tremendous laugh. She has also been credited with a grin "that should have been locked up for the sake of public decency" and her face has been described as looking like "a friendly pumpkin."

Role and power
The witches of the Lancre coven reflect the roles of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, with Nanny Ogg as the Mother. Nuttall observes that, while some of the Discworld witch characters progress through these roles, Nanny is associated "purely with the role of the Mother." In addition to being the matriarch of a large family, Nanny also fulfills a Mother role in the community; "she is a talented midwife, and takes a maternal attitude to the majority of people she meets". In Thief of Time, Nanny Ogg is acknowledged as the best midwife in the world, and has experience with non-human species like trolls. She briefly takes on young Tiffany Aching as an apprentice after the death of Tiffany's previous mentor, Miss Treason.

While Nanny Ogg's bawdy sense of humor and sexually active past "would seem to contradict her association with the role of Mother", Nuttall points to this as evidence that Nanny "never truly fitted the role of Maiden" and that the character "represents female sexuality as powerful, natural, and something to be celebrated". Even in old age, she enjoys flirting and male attention, such as with the dwarf Casanunda.

Nanny Ogg has impressive social skills, and often relies upon these rather than witchcraft to gather information or persuade others. Throughout the series she demonstrates the ability to socialize with all kinds of people, which sometimes leaves Granny wondering 'if Gytha has some sort of special magic'. In The Art of Discworld, Pratchett writes, "I've always suspected that Nanny is, deep down, the most powerful of the witches, and part of her charm lies in the way she prevents people from finding this out."

Family
Nanny Ogg is the matriarch of her vast extended family. Although she is an affectionate mother and grandmother, Nanny is a tyrant to her daughters-in-law and orders them to perform household chores.

Nanny Ogg claims in Lords and Ladies that her ancestors invented the ancient language of Oggham, the Discworld equivalent of the ancient Irish alphabet Ogham.

Several of Nanny's relatives play supporting roles in the Discworld books. Many others are mentioned briefly.

Jason Ogg
Eldest son of Nanny Ogg, first mentioned in Wyrd Sisters. Like his father before him, he is the Lancre blacksmith. He is also the leader of the Lancre Morris Men, who treat Morris dancing as something between a contact sport and a martial art.

Jason is something of a gentle giant (somewhat like Constable Bluejohn), and very deferring and respectful to his mother and other witches.

Shawn Ogg
Youngest son of Nanny Ogg. First appears in Wyrd Sisters as a guard at Lancre Castle. He later becomes Lancre's entire army, as well as the civil service and most of the palace staff. According to Nanny Ogg's Cookbook, he has been granted the Order of the Lancrastian Empire. He is also notable for inventing the Lancrastian Army Knife.

Shane Ogg
Nanny's grandson, Shane is a sailor and has taught her some 'basic foreign language', mostly made up of mangled words from French and other European languages.

Neville Ogg
Neville is a thief and (prior to the events of Maskerade) stole all the lead from the roof of the Ankh-Morpork Opera House. Afterward he hid at Mrs. Palm's establishment. When Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax visit Ankh-Morpork in Maskerade, they also seek lodging with Mrs. Palm, and are surprised to learn that this is a brothel rather than a boarding house.

Adaptations
In the Wyrd Sisters animated adaptation, Nanny Ogg was voiced by June Whitfield. In the BBC Radio 4 adaptation of Wyrd Sisters, she was played by Lynda Baron.

Reception and legacy
Nanny Ogg, along with Rincewind, was pictured on first-class Royal Mail stamps in March 2011.

In The Art of Discworld, Pratchett mentions a fossil species of Mesozoic ginkgo known as Ginkgoites nannyoggiae.

title: Nanny Ogg


text:
Talk:National Space Grant College and Fellowship Program

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bholloway1459, Bpettit3100. Peer reviewers: Jsmith4384, Bbashor.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Details
But what is it exactly? Mark Richards 01:40, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Number with 3
The article says only 6 colleges have all 3 designations, but so far I count that Cornell University Oregon State University University of Alaska Fairbanks University of New Hampshire Texas A&M University Auburn University University of Puerto Rico Massachusetts Institute of Technology

all have all 3 designations, could someone factcheck this? Mbisanz 02:39, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Misssing Participating Institutions?
Is every school involved supposed to be listed? If so many are missing. There is a pdf on the program site that lists all of them.
 * You're correct. The National Directory of Space Grant Contacts (from 2002) lists 810 institutions (see page 160 of the PDF). If all 810 are going to be added, there would need to be a better way to navigate the list, presumably by breaking it up alphabetically. Anyone want to volunteer? Earthsound 21:00, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

More details needed
How is the program funded? What sort of programs exist in practice to implement the program's mission? -- Beland (talk) 18:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Funding?
Do these universities receive federal funding to support space-related research? Or is it only a designation? The article does not explicitly say anything about funding, only that the program is administered by NASA and that it is a program established by Congress and designed to encourage research and training etc. ... Is it just an overseeing sort of thing? Or is it a major source of funding? LordAmeth (talk) 09:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

CLEANUP NEEDED BIG-TIME
Many member institutions missing from lists. Virtually NO citations anywhere. Many institutions appear out of order under incorrect state consortium sub-headings. Most or all supporting source data to cleanup this article may be found here: http://www.nasa.gov/offices/education/programs/national/spacegrant/home/Space_Grant_Consortium_Websites.html --Londonfifo (talk) 05:24, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

BLPVIO?
Should the e-mail addresses really be included?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No, and neither should that entire section. ElKevbo (talk) 14:48, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Please breakout list of institutions
Please breakout list of institutions. It is not browsable. Every time you scroll down the list, one of the items gets randomly opened, and returning to the list brings you back to the top ! 68.110.182.150 (talk) 22:26, 23 December 2021 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Mahayana

Geo dissemination of Buddhism
When buddhism moves through a culture it transforms normally with its folk religion. To say that Buddhism comes from India and that is it is a gross injustice to the nature of the philosophy it's self. Change, impermanence is the way. We will need to move the position of some of the country's successions after China I did not have time. Amituofo 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 Shenqijing (talk) 12:55, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:36, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Sendai Daikannon(12536113403).jpg

Is it originally Indian?
Mahayana Buddhism is East Asian, and from historical records we can conclude that Mahayana primarily developed from and in China, and then spread to the rest of the sinosphere. Surely it can not be said that Mahayana is Indian? From what I can see this wiki also doesn’t state in the history that it originated in ancient India. Yet clearly in all Mahayana traditions it clearly states that it traces its origins to China.

Please elaborate. Hayashihouyi (talk) 01:43, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

 * Nonsense. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  05:15, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Are you going to provide an argument or are just claiming “nonsense”. Hayashihouyi (talk) 18:24, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Tell me, do Indians know what Mahayana is? Mahayana is nonexistent in India. Proof me wrong. Since you seem to be an Indian professor. Hayashihouyi (talk) 18:31, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

"Dasheng" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Dasheng and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 25 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 18:34, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

too long
Should the banner be put up for "this article is too long..."?

Just trying to reach WP:CON here. Pingy / Pongy 03:01, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mahayana