text:
Talk:Inca Kola

Sales figures
The page says:

 * It is the only one local beverage in the world that outsells Coca Cola in its origin country.

but the Coca Cola page says:

 * Coca-Cola is the market leader for soft drinks in all countries of the world, except Scotland, where the locally produced Irn Bru is more popular, and Quebec, Canada, where Pepsi is the market leader.

Whichever is mistaken should be corrected.

-- Dominus 18:49, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

On a totally unscientific basis, without sales figures, it isn't easy to say which sells more, they are both ubiquitous and seem to be consumed in roughly equal quantities by Peruvians. Inca Kola isn't the only local beverage that outsells Coca-Cola — they admit that this is how it is in at least two other parts of the world, so even if Inca Kola sells more than Coca-Cola in Peru, the article still needs correcting, preferably by someone who has the figures. Trilobite 16:36, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * On checking, Irn-Bru seems to have fallen a bit, and is now roughly neck-and-neck with Coke. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 00:31, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've removed that claim. The Irn-Bru suggests six products have a similar claim to outsell Coke in the domestic market. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.17.63 (talk) 22:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

A GFDL picture of Inca Kola
The image on the article is quite good, however this is a GFDL alternative in case we do not have the rights to use that one. --Salimfadhley 23:04, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The Nature of Inca Kola
Inca Kola actually is not any kind of Cola drink. It has no Cola or Cola-related ingredients. It is only related to colas by virtue of being carbonated.
 * "Cola" in Lat Am Spanish has wider meaning than in English. It even includes lemonade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.136.55 (talk) 22:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I live in Peru, and I know from personal experience selling soft drink products in my stores that the following facts are true: Also "soft drink", by definition, includes lemonade. --Jeffrey Scott Maxwell (talk) 06:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The word "Cola" in Peru usually means "cola" (the dark colored soft drink made with cola beans often called "cola negra" in Spanish) by the classic English-language definition.
 * 2) The word "Kola" with a "K" in Peru, and most other Spanish-speaking South American countries, means "soft drink" -- meaning any sort of non-alcoholic beverage.

Sold in the U.S for years..
Just wanted to add here what some of you have said on the history of the article: Inka Kola has been selling in the U.S. for various years now, even before 2000 here in California. So that date (2005) is erroneous. I tried to look it up at the coca cola site but I wasn't able to find what I looked for concerning the date. --Dynamax 07:50, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * My local Cost Plus World Market carried Inca Kola in the DC-metro stores as far back as 2001. --BizMgr (talk) 07:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I think they may mean globally, not in certain areasPotatoTheThird (talk) 19:33, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Just a thought
Is it just me, or does this article seem just a tad... smug? -Litefantastic 21:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree. The tone of this article is not appropriate for Wikipedia. It is certainly fascinating that Inca Kola has retained such high popularity over the years, even in the face of competition.  But the smug and nationalistic tone of the article makes it seem more like a marketing brochure than an encyclopedia article. Patiwat 16:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Please explain what you mean by smug and nationalistic, preferably with examples, so that I can go in and edit the offending parts. I must admit, though, that while writing it I never tried to make it like you say so perhaps it is simply a difference of styles.  Anyways, tell me what you think is inappropriate in tone.  Hdezela 06:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with Litefantastic and Patiwat. For example, the paragraph mentioning Bembos says "practically drove out Burger King from Peru" instead of neutral "took market share from Burger King," which would need a citation.  The phrase "offered better service and a flavor more in tune with national tastes" is entirely POV.  While not a POV problem, the sentence beginning with "Bembos originally served Coca-Cola" is a run-on sentence.  I picked that paragraph at random, but the whole article suffers from similar POV problems.  --Goose1011a 22:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

(1) There isn't a single citation in this article, which DOES read like a nationalist advertisement for Inka Cola---what sources back up the author's or authors' claims? (2)These sentences are particularly nationalist in tone and inappropriate for a neutral article: "Its standing as the only national drink greatly helped to win over customers as more and more people converted for nationalistic, price and flavor reasons." "The combined marketing muscle of Coca-Cola and Pepsi could not unseat Inca Kola as the most popular drink." "In the 1980s, Pepsi's campaign "Pepsi Challenge" (El Reto Pepsi) backfired and helped to virtually destroy the Pepsi brand in Peru, due in large part to the fact that consumers did not enjoy being told they were wrong." "A "fact" that has been repeated many times in Lima, yet the only source is a television interview with an employee of a local polling firm, is that over 80% of the people who took the taste test chose Coca-Cola, this being attributed to the fact that Coca-Cola had long since changed the formula for Peru (one of only three countries with that privilege), adding more sweetener to the mix in order to better fit the local palate." "As a result of the Pepsi debacle, two rivals were left in Peru to battle in the soft drink wars, Coca-Cola, with a 21% market share, and Inca Kola with the lion's share of 35%"
 * I also agree with Litefantastic and Patiwat. Some particularly troublesome parts are:

After that, I stopped copying and pasting....

By the way, I've tasted Inca Kola many times...it's tasty and sweet, but I prefer the taste of Coca-Cola and Pepsi, which would be a completely biased statement in an informative article, just as the numerous statements of Peruvian preference for Inca Kola.Kemet 03:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Bad English
"First, Bembos, a national fast-food chain that eventually bested McDonald's and practically drove out Burger King from Peru, switched from Coca Cola to Inca Kola after failing to reach an agreement. The restaurant offered better service and a flavor more in tune with national tastes. It forced Bembos to switch brands almost overnight. Later, when the two companies joined, Bembos began to sell both Coca-Cola and Inca Kola side-by-side." It is not clear what the words in bold refer to (because of bad sentence structure/wording). As such the whole paragraph has no meaning and should be deleted or corrected by the original author. 138.243.228.52 05:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I came here to ask the same thing. What on earth does this mean? It seems that part of the paragraph got deleted at some point. The Wednesday Island (talk) 21:08, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
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Flavor
The article isn't clear about what Inca Kola is supposed to taste like. It suggests that the flavor is supposed to be that of Lemon Verbena, but is ultimately nonspecific. If that is in fact the flavor, perhaps that should be clarified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.195.62 (talk) 06:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I noticed this as well. To me, it has a taste and scent similar to pink bubble gum. ~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.83.54.2 (talk) 22:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph has said "... with a sweet fruity flavor sometimes compared to bubblegum" for many months now. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 02:01, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

 * And it's in the first sentence too! I can't believe I missed that, yet, I did... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.83.54.2 (talk) 16:58, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Pink bubblegum is not an especially fruity flavor, but Inca Kola does indeed taste and smell like pink bubblegum. --Una Smith (talk) 16:48, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Inca Kola tastes like Irn Bru which also -- surprise, surprise -- tastes like pink bubblegum. -- 174.0.105.151 (talk) 18:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I changed the wording, because Inca Kola does not taste like lemon verbena, it is made with lemon verbena. There is a big difference. There are a lot of other flavors mixed in with it. Most people agree that Inca Kola does taste like bubblegum. I also tried to add sources to back up these statements. --Jeffrey Scott Maxwell (talk) 07:03, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

"Coca-cola formula changed for Peru (one of three countries)"
The "marketing victory" section of this article indicates that Peru is one of three countries in which Coca-cola alters the content of its formula, as a direct result of national preference for sweetness (e.g., Inca Kola.). However, this is unreferenced in this article, and that section is tagged with an "original research" flag. Can someone provide evidence of this? If so, it should also be added to the Coca-Cola formula page. Migp (talk) 20:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * The assertion is nonsense. I can assure you the formula is the same. I am currently in Peru. The so-called article was just another propaganda piece. That sort of thing is rampant here in Peru due to widespread nationalism.201.230.68.7 (talk) 01:57, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Pepsi/Coke stuff
I have thrown out about half the article - all the stuff about Pepsi' taste test alienating Peruvians, and Coke's failed efforts to squash the noble local firm, and percentage data about which companies own what percent of the market - none of it was sourced, despite requests dating back years.

Note: This article has infiltrated the web (even Boing Boing quoted it), swamping most mentions of Inka Cola. So beware of identically-phrased items, with wording like this: "In the 1980s, Pepsi's infamous "Pepsi Challenge" (El Reto Pepsi) campaign helped to virtually destroy the Pepsi brand in Peru, due in large part to the fact that consumers do not enjoy being told they're wrong." That came from here, written back in 2007. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Corporación José R. Lindley S.A.
The internal link to wiki article "Corporación José R. Lindley S.A." was removed from the Inca Kola page. I have added it back. Corporación José R. Lindley S.A. is an important "See also" because it is the company that originally created Inca Kola (equally or more important than the internal links to competitor brands, which are also good links for "See also"). Thank you. --Jeffrey Scott Maxwell (talk) 17:30, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Change: "exported to" to "available in"
I changed the following sentence: "Inca Kola is exported to parts of South America, North America and Europe, and while it has not enjoyed major success outside of Peru, it can be found in Latin American specialty shops worldwide." from "exported to" to "available in", because "exported to" is too ambiguous, and in part wrong, and would take a whole article to explain all the questions the term raises. One point for example, Inca Kola is not exported from Peru to North America, because the Inca Kola sold in North America is owned and made there by The Coca-Cola Company. The Inca Kola made in Peru, as it states in the article, is owned by a different company arrangement in Peru. Thanks. --Jeffrey Scott Maxwell (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Inca Kola Ingredients?????
WoW! I can't believe that Wiki doesn't have the single most important fact of them all: the ingredients!!! Particularly it would be very interesting to know what changes Coca Cola made to the original Inca ingredients. I mean I doubt the Incas came back from battle at the Titicaca, sat back in their lazyboy in their cave and uncorked a glass bottle and enjoyed liquid toxins such as: * Carbonated water * high fructose corn syrup and/or sucrose * citric acid * sodium benzoate (to protect taste) * caffeine * artificial and natural flavors

Surely there must have been a major change from lean and trim Incas/Andeans to obese/diabetes-ridden Peruvians after Coca-Cola messed with this drink! So it's important to know what the original formula was, when it originated and when it was changed to the above toxic brew. Igel B TyMaHe (talk) 01:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC)Lew SandersIgel B TyMaHe (talk) 01:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the ingredients list. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 02:16, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

 * The original Inca ingredients? It was invented in the 20th century! 181.91.61.217 (talk) 01:19, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Champagne Kola
Can we confirm that this is a variety of champagne kola? I've tried this and Bravo brand side by side, the flavour is barely distinguishable though neither article mentions the other. Are there any sources to confirm or deny that Inca is a variety of champagne cola? Atreem (talk) 09:21, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

 * What do you mean by "variety"? Bravo Kolashampan and Inca Cola don't seem to be made by the same company, and their histories don't seem to overlap, so far as I can tell - that is, one wasn't created as a local variant of the other. Maybe they are both based on similar tastes, just as Coke and Pepsi are based on similar tastes, but I'm not sure how significant that is. Lots of global foods and drinks are similar to each other. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:26, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Exactly as you said about Coca-Cola and Pepsi, they have their own origins and differences but are both unquestionably "cola varieties". Would it be unreasonable to suggest that Inca and Kolashampan are both individual brands' versions of champagne kola? I suppose I'm just trying to fit it into a category here, they seem similar enough to me but I am ignorant of the topic. Of course if there are no sources to suggest the same, I'll leave out of it. Atreem (talk) 10:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Well, now that you mention it, Inca Kola is mentioned along with a bunch of other brands in the Champagne kola article, which does seem worthy of mention here. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:03, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Inca Kola


text:
Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue

Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue is a television series and the eighth season of the Power Rangers franchise, based on the 23rd Super Sentai series Kyuukyuu Sentai GoGoFive (1999).

Lightspeed Rescue had, for the first time, a Power Ranger with no Super Sentai counterpart in the Titanium Ranger, as there was no Titanium Ranger in GoGoFive, which makes it the first season to have an American-exclusive Ranger.

Synopsis
The series takes place in the fictitious city of Mariner Bay, California, which was built on an ancient demon burial ground. When the demons were accidentally released from their tomb in the desert, they threaten to destroy Mariner Bay. Therefore, a government organization called Lightspeed, headed by Captain William Mitchell, recruits four civilians and his own daughter to defend the city as a new team of Power Rangers after Lightspeed successfully channels the source of their powers, the Morphin Grid. Each of the four civilians chosen had a special area of expertise: Carter Grayson, the Red Ranger, was a fire fighter in the local fire department; Chad Lee, the Blue Ranger, worked as a lifeguard and marine animal trainer at a local aquarium and a marine amusement park; Joel Rawlings, the Green Ranger, was a stunt pilot; Kelsey Winslow, the Yellow Ranger, was an extreme sports athlete; and Dana Mitchell, Captain Mitchell's daughter, who agreed to become the Pink Lightspeed Ranger, was a paramedic and practiced medical arts. The Rangers were aided by a team of scientists and engineers led by Miss Angela Fairweather, and operated out of the Lightspeed Aquabase, an underwater military compound that also deters the hydrophobic demons from directly attacking the base.

The five Rangers would be joined by Captain Mitchell's long lost son, Ryan Mitchell, who would become the Titanium Ranger. Together, the six Rangers would prevail against the demon forces time after time, culminating in a final showdown where, in Power Rangers tradition, all of the Zords, the base, and much of the weapons and other equipment that was used by the Power Rangers over the series was destroyed.

In addition, Lightspeed Rescue featured a reunion reappearance of characters from Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, when the villainess Trakeena comes to Earth to destroy it and the Lightspeed Rangers team up with the Galaxy Rangers.

Cast and characters
Lightspeed Rangers
 * Sean Cw Johnson as Carter Grayson, the Red Lightspeed Ranger
 * Michael Chaturantabut as Chad Lee, the Blue Lightspeed Ranger
 * Keith Robinson as Joel Rawlings, the Green Lightspeed Ranger
 * Sasha Williams as Kelsey Winslow, the Yellow Lightspeed Ranger
 * Alison MacInnis as Dana Mitchell, the Pink Lightspeed Ranger
 * Rhett Fisher as Ryan Mitchell, the Titanium Ranger

Supporting characters
 * Monica Louwerens as Ms. Angela Fairweather
 * Ron Roggé as Captain William Mitchell

Villains
 * Jennifer L. Yen as Vypra
 * Diane Salinger as the voice of Queen Bansheera
 * Neil Kaplan as the voice of Diabolico
 * Michael Forest as the voice of Prince Olympius
 * Brianne Siddall as the voice of Impus
 * David Lodge as the voice of Loki
 * Kim Strauss as the voice of Jinxer

Guest stars
 * Danny Slavin as Leo Corbett, Galaxy Red
 * Reggie Rolle as Damon Henderson, Galaxy Green
 * Archie Kao as Kai Chen, Galaxy Blue
 * Cerina Vincent as Maya, Galaxy Yellow
 * Valerie Vernon as Kendrix Morgan, Galaxy Pink
 * Jennifer Burns as Trakeena

Video game
Several video games based on Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue were also developed and available for Nintendo 64, Game Boy Color, PlayStation, and PC. The PlayStation and N64 versions were 3D beat-em up games, the Game Boy version was a 2D side-scrolling platformer, and the PC version was actually an activity center.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue


text:
Zombi

Zombi may refer to:

 * Zombi (film) or Dawn of the Dead, a 1978 film by George Romero
 * Zombi 2, a 1979 film by Lucio Fulci
 * Zombi (film series), a set of horror films
 * Zombi (band), a space rock band from Pittsburgh
 * "Zombi", a song by P-MODEL from the album Perspective
 * Zombi (1986 video game), a computer game published in 1986 by Ubisoft
 * ZombiU, a video game first published in 2012 by Ubisoft, also released under the title Zombi
 * Zombi (African god), a snake-deity in Voodoo cults of West Africa and Haiti

title: Zombi


text:
Manilkara chicle

Manilkara chicle is a tropical evergreen tree native to Mexico and Central America. The tree ranges from Veracruz in Mexico south to Atlántico in Colombia. It yields a natural gum known as chicle, traditionally used in making chewing gum and other products.

title: Manilkara chicle


text:
Talk:Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day

William Johnson's article
The source citing Johnson's article in the section about the political nature of the celebration, doesnt mention anything about non french canadians minorities, despite Never give up! Never surrender!'s claims. It talks about Johnson's feeling that the national holiday was being held up exclusively by sovereignists (or separatists in his own words), and that it excluded french canadians outside quebec, english-quebecers (which does not represent ALl of Quebec's minorities), and quebec's federalists. I want to hear the opinions of other users on this.Lanççelot (talk) 05:35, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole "Political nature of the celebration" is unsourced and is destined to be biased and dissatisfy many readers. I doubt there even are credible sources discussing the topic with coldheadedness and impartiality anywhere in any language. I move to ditch the whole section.
 * Impartiality is not defined as "those sources with which sovereignists happen to agree." Besides, if Johnson is so objectionable, why is he archived extensively on www.vigile.net?  Vote for retention of Johnson's article.Toddsschneider (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And let's be reasonable: if we are to seriously discuss (at some point) the misunderstanding between Quebecers and certain francophones outside Quebec who decided to hold on to the French-Canadian name, it will not be here in this article and it will not be using William Johnson's overly partisan and defamatory opinions as reference... There must be some leaders of out-of-Quebec francophone associations who can be quoted on this, if really it is an issue and not just a media fabrication? If it is just a blow from a federalist to a sovereignist (or the other way around), in my opinion it is immediately disqualified as representative of anything other than that one person's political opinion. This article can be improved upon in many ways that would be more informative than petty political accusations of unknown origin. -- Mathieugp (talk) 14:42, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Anglophone artists at the St-Jean celebration was a huge media controversy, in both the English and French media. Francophone politicians and public figures from all over the political "spectrum" in Quebec, came out in support of the anglo artists.  Johnson wrote a follow-up piece which bears citation.
 * The paragraph clearly states that it is the authors opinion. The wording at the moment is not correct, it has been vandalized to represent a Québécois-centric view and not a summary of what Johnson said in his article. For those who do not have access to the whole article, and are following the link that only shows the intro, it is on 's talk page.--Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 17:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This may be so, but the section remains a piece of mostly unsourced material, more polemical than encyclopedic in nature. Does it enlighten the reader on the "Political nature of the celebration"? There would need to be multiple POV represented there, which is not the case.
 * Regarding Johnson's article, which I am reading in full for the first time, it really is his opinion that "La fête de la Saint-Jean until the secessionist Parti Québécois took office in 1976 and changed the name to exclude French Canadians outside Quebec from the festivities." This sentence is factually incorrect on many accounts. It attributes the name change to the PQ and post-1976, when it is to be attributed to the delegates at the Estates-General of French Canada in 1967 who resolved that Quebec was the national territory of the French Canadian nation (nothing surprising there when one knows the history of the renaming from Canada to Quebec and from BNA to Canada). It gives as a motive for the change the "exclusion" of French Canadians outside Quebec, which is not only inaccurate but absurd. On their national day, the Americans, whether in America (USA) or outside of it are free to celebrate. In fact, it generally is the case that embassies celebrate the national day abroad. Being outside the national territory does not exclude non-residing members of a nation from celebrating their national day.
 * "No one represented English-speaking Quebec, unless one counts St. Patrick." => Actually, St. Patrick represents Ireland, a country whose first official language is Irish, not English. Paul Cargnello, a native English-speaking Québécois was singing that night in the Montreal concert. Not to mention Samian. This is really dishonest journalism because his unique implication in the article is that the event is at the hands of separatists excluding out-of-Quebecers and minorities.
 * Any serious survey of Ireland would place the country squarely in the Anglosphere.Toddsschneider (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Quebec invests millions in celebrating its Fête Nationale and, in nearly every part of the province, its organization is put in the hands of separatists." => The national holiday of Quebec, which still occurs on June 24, St. John the Baptist Day, and is still organized by the St-Jean-Baptiste Society today, is a day of celebration of the Quebec nation. Yes, it is controlled by Quebec nationalists, much like Canada Day's organization is controlled by Canadian nationalists. Yes, it is true, since the majority of Quebec nationalists are separatists, we can logically conclude that the June 24 celebrations are organized by mostly separatists. It has been like that for over 40 years. And I do not believe Quebec is about to run out of separatists singers, songwriters, poets and musicians... - Mathieugp (talk) 20:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not only nationalists but anglophobes, who were horrified that St-Jean might become bilingual with the precedent of L'Autre St-Jean.Toddsschneider (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is the only portion of this section that is properly sourced. We must include facts about opinions, without implying that any one opinion is correct. As a radical former president of a minority lobby group we must, in order to maintain Neutrality, include this properly sourced opinion. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with what he is saying in the article, but as a prominent journalist, and political figure, he was the voice of the largest non-French speaking minority in Quebec and a prominent representative of the view that the celebrations are politicized. (whether the view is correct or not, it is still a view)--Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 20:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He was not speaking as a representative of any group, only as a journalist as far as I know. I am convinced that any attempt at introducing (however neutral) a description of federalists bashing sovereignists (or the other way around) is certain not to be encyclopedic in nature and is definitely not Wikipedia material. There is so much that could be written on (for example) the history of June 24, in Quebec and in the rest of French-speaking America over the past 175 years. Or the customs that were (or still) are associated with the St-Jean, etc. The junk under "Political nature of the celebration" doesn't even deserve to make it into WikiNews as far as I am concerned.

 * How do you propose to improve this section to make it acceptable according to Wikipedia's criteria? I can think of a few scholarly books that might discuss some aspects of all this with intelligence, but I am not so sure. It seems to me that the subject is inherently polemical.

 * In the meantime, I cannot agree that the sentence should stay as it is: Nowhere does Johnson state that "many non-French-Canadian minorities view June 24 as an ethnic and politicized event rather than a civic celebration", he asserts or implies that it is such without any sort of reference. In other words, that is is opinion, but he presents it as though it were a fact, and any person who was attending the concert in Montreal last year can testify that his insinuations are lieful for everything other than pointing out the obvious fact that the show is run by people almost universally favourable to the independence of Quebec. But we do not need to quote Johnson to prove this... It can be said without polemic and defamation. And if it is to be said, then in Canada Day, we need an equally big section on the "Political nature of that celebration", with evil separatists being quoted complaining about the percentage of the celebration budget going to Quebec vs. the rest of Canada, the Sponsorship Scandal, the fact people are busing moving to another apartment in Montreal, etc.

 * I hope I am making it obvious that we do not want to go there. This is precisely what Wikipedia is not for. It seems to me that the national day of Quebec deserves the same kind of quiet and neutral respect the national day of Canada gets in en.wikipedia.org. On the other hand, the fr:Fête du Canada probably needs a little neutral love right now. -- Mathieugp (talk) 22:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that no matter what is put up to explain that the one side views it as such, will be disputed by the other side as biased, even when factual. The version as it is right now neutraly summarizes what Johnson wrote in his article. The facts are that the holiday is supposed to be for everyone but, as Johnson points out, because most of the organizers and the festivities are very pro-seperation/soverenty the minorities do not feel welcome. As I have not attended any June 24th celebrations in over 15 years (they don't celebrate it where I live), I can not speak to what happened in any particular celebration, and I do not try to either. In my honest opinion (Not a fact just my thoughts), I think that what the original author(s) was trying to convey, (And I am just talking about this article, not arguing about whether other celebrations or events have simular problems) is that a celebration that is supposed to unite us all as Quebecers has had the opposite effect. I do know from personal experience that not all French Speaking Quebecers are pro-seperation/soverenty, and many of them also stay away from the celebrations for the same reasons, but as I am not a public figure it means nothing. --Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 01:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC) Let's stop arguing over this as it was not my paragraph to begin with.

We need to come up with a better way to write this whole section, the paragraph in question is the only sourced item and seems to be all of a sudden very contreversial. We can not hide or dismiss the fact that the holiday is as the law states a holiday for all Québécois, but the festivities are primarily geared towards a more Nationalist/Seperatist/Sovereigntist and that people who do not adhere to this idealogy feel unwelcome or even unwanted. I am open to suggestions. --Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 01:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My suggestion was to zap the section. I still believe it is the best thing to do for the moment. It would not be difficult to demonstrate that most Quebecers who are "Nationalist/Seperatist/Sovereigntist" do not feel welcomed celebrating the federal State of Canada on July 1st. There isn't much to say beyond that that will not end up being a cause for endless and useless revert wars.
 * Quite false. A francophone nationalist would be welcome at any Canada Day celebration sponsored by the Conservative or Liberal parties of Canada. They were the same who voted in favor of the "Quebec is a nation (within Canada)" resolution in the Canadian Parliament. A separatist is another creature.  But try wearing a "Canada" T-shirt to St-Jean Toddsschneider (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am the one who created the section by the way. It would seem I created it on 24 juin 2005 à 14:14 with unsourced material (not written by me) which originally stated just this:

 * Until the 1970s, Dominion Day, which fell on 1 July, was little more than a day away from work for most Canadians. To respond to the Quebec nationalist appropiation of Saint-Jean-Baptiste, the federal government promoted 1 July as a national holiday for Canada. It did so by furnishing funds for lavish celebrations and by changing the name of the holiday to Canada Day. Within Quebec, separatists have tended to use the Fête nationale du Québec to promote identification with Quebec, while their opponents have used Canada Day celebrations to stress loyalty to Canada as a whole. Canada Day parades in Montreal attract crowds composed mostly of anglophones and recent immigrants. The battle of the holidays has caused the two levels of government to compete with each other in financing public spectacles (e.g., outdoor jazz concerts). Most ordinary people, however, use the two holidays for apolitical recreational activities, appreciating the flood of free entertainment provided in late June and early July.

 * I don't see that there has been any improvement of this section over the past four years... In fact, I find it was a lot more reasonable then than now, despite the reference notes in the current version. -- Mathieugp (talk) 03:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually went back a year, then got sidetracked by kids and everything. I did not find where the Johnson article paragraph was even introduced as of yet. My original involvement with this paragraph was when changed it, that got me looking into the source, which the link only shows the intro to the aticle now, So I went on a hunting expedition to get the whole article, sometimes an intro doesn't say it all. Also when you are not a native speaker of a language, comprehension is a factor. I found that the original wording here was more representative of the article by Johnson. We all know too well that words have different uses, and when a text is translated it can lose some of it's meaning. Even my handle on WP eludes to this problem.

 * It seems to me that the wounds of our fathers have not healed, and the same rhetoric seems to bring back a longing for what once was, holding us back from being able to become what should.

 * I for one identify with both sides, and see this type of thing all around the world. What we should all realize is that in reality both English and French are descendants of immigrants who at one time left their home lands in search for a better life. And it can even be argued that we both come from the same heritage.--Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 04:05, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Pardon? Now that is off topic entirely. If you want to more accurately quote from Johnson and work to fix the section, then go ahead, otherwise do you agree that it is only fair to get rid of the section entirely so the article is about as neutral and polemic-free as are Canada Day, St. Patrick's Day or any of the other National day articles in WP? Surely all sides of your family would agree to equal respect for everyone... ;-) -- Mathieugp (talk) 15:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry if you feel that way, I was just trying to explain briefly my envolvment in the "dispute", and my perspective so you would understand that I have no bias either way, (English mother French-Canadian father, born in the US, raised in a french only speaking area of Québec). It was also very "late" in the morning and I tend to get philosophical. This section does need to be there, but I am unsure as what to do to make it better at this time. --Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 16:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I've been trying to put together something that talks about this section in a neutral fasion, and would like some input. No matter what I come up with it doesn't seem to reflect either side in a good light, and I know that can't be what we want.--That's Life, "Stuff" happens, people die, life goes on. (talk) 18:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Believe me, I know what you mean. Some topics are just too difficult (or to close to us) to be treated with the rational objectivity needed for Wikipedia. That's why nowadays I focus on historical events that happened long ago, yet are still poorly understood by the general public, even in 2009. -- Mathieugp (talk) 20:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was consensus not to move the article, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:06, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

National Holiday (Quebec) → Quebec's National Holiday — See discussions above and archived. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Oppose, use Saint Jean Baptiste Day as this is the common name. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 05:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose, considering how long it took to get the current name, which is acceptable, I am not favourable to a move. Arriving to a new consensus is unlikely to occur in my opinion. -- Mathieugp (talk) 16:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose, was already discussed and this was the compromise. Also note that other "National Holiday" celebrations use (and could use) the same name (Only luxemburg currently). Note: The legal description in English of the holiday is simply National Holiday. (in Quebec is not part of the name of the holiday, only designates where, as in Thanksgiving in Canada, or Thanksgiving in The USA.) The literal translation of the French name would be "The National Festival of Quebec". --That's Life, "Stuff" happens, people die, life goes on. (talk) 01:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Holiday Name
Is National Holiday (Quebec) / National Holiday of Quebec correct? It would appear to me that the holiday for a Province cannot be considered a national holiday.--RedKnight (talk) 21:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

 * The people of Quebec gave themselves their national institutions over the State they could, in this case a Provincial State. The National Assembly of Quebec made June 24 the National Holiday of Quebec in 1977. It is the object of a particular act of parliament which you can read here:

 * Gouvernement du Québec. "National Holiday Act", in CanLII, Federation of Law Societies of Canada, updated to May 1st, 2008, retrieved June 29, 2008 -- Mathieugp (talk) 00:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * An Act of a provincial legislature, under the federal state of Canada, that is.Toddsschneider (talk) 20:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

 * The correct name is Saint-Jean-Baptiste day. The National Holiday name is only used by a small number of radical Quebec sovereignists. — NRen2k5 (TALK), 06:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the name used by law and by Québec government. It's also used by the Québec Prime-Minister (currently a federalist) and by the Canadian Prime-Minister. It's also used in medias and is the official name of the celebrations. The Saint-Jean-Baptiste day is a religious celebration, the National Holiday is a civic one. Not the same thing. Jimmy Lavoietalk 03:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The official name not withstanding (A term you know), the French Québecois people do not call it by this name, and many celebrations are still called Saint-Jean Baptiste Day.--JamesLavoie (talk) 20:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wrong wrong wrong. Despite the custom is to keep calling it Saint-Jean-Baptiste, it is still OFFICIALLY, by law, the National Holiday of Québec, and it is not an opinion but a fact. Independentism has nothing to do with that. Even federalists may prefer that name because it's void of religious references. Every year there is a comittee and every year the term is indeed Fête nationale. In every government website in Québec, that date is called Fête nationale. --ThoMiCroN Blason famille Phelippes de La Marnierre.svg (t) 03:24, 31 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThoMiCroN (talk • contribs)
 * Considering that it's not only celebrated in Quebec, and being the English Wikipedia, we'll use the English spelling for both the location and the celebration. We should use the name that all people who celebrate it would use. Also, we use WP:COMMONNAME, but we should reference the name the province of Quebec uses for its celebrations since they are the largest celebrations. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:39, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

The opening sentence of this article begs the question: "The National Holiday of Quebec (French: La Fête nationale du Québec) is the national holiday[1] of Québec." The equivalent of this sentence is, "This noun is this noun." Don't think it would be appropriate for someone like myself, visiting the article because today is the celebration, to reword this opener. Thanks. RaqiwasSushi (talk) 11:17, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it should be changed. -- Mathieugp (talk) 16:56, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

The current title, Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, should be changed. Quebec refers to the National Holiday in the goal of promoting secularism, not a sovereignty agenda. 2620:160:E708:6:0:0:0:D (talk) 14:26, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Let's Discuss this information
The central problem of this holiday for many Quebecois is that this festivity symbolizes the celebration of "pure laine"(literally translated as "pure wool"), a term used to describe someone born in Quebec and directly descended from European blood. [28] [29] The Saint Jean Baptiste holiday focuses on both linguistic and racial purity thereby alienating the growing numbers of non-white, non-French and many French speaking Quebecois (of all origins). [30] However, recent journalism on this subject has shown that the younger generations of franco Quebecois find this issue of language a "non-issue", while others hold this idea of "French only" as essential to Quebecois identity. [31] This is a highly contentious subject which few discuss openly; yet the day before the 2008 celebration, Stéphane Gendron, an established francophone radio presenter, questioned if this holiday was not more of a polemic than a celebration. On the television show, "L'avocat du diable", Gendron said "we are a people of liars", indicating the 35%-40% rate of unemployment for "our Arab colleagues" adding: "We are a nation of racists!" accusing the Quebecois leadership of demagogery by exaggerating the language issues in the province in order to avoid discussing the real and more immediate issues. [32]

This paragraph has been continually deleted by Mathieugp and I would like other input as to the validity of this information. I have cited, academic texts and newspapers which have looked into the polemic behind this festival. I would prefer input from those outside the country since it would seem people here are unable to maintain their calm nor respect for other wiki users. Cheers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disfasia (talk • contribs) 16:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

 * For a more accurate account of how and why the above paragraph was removed by two different administrators, and User:Disfasia received not one but two final warnings by the same two administrators, see User talk:Disfasia and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring . Sorry to all. I know you have better things to do, especially in July. ;-) -- Mathieugp (talk) 23:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

It was removed because you are warring mathieugp. And you clearly have nothing better to do than harass wiki users and censure content here. You incredible lack of honesty is only underscorred by your inabilty to respect the "do not remove until dispute is resolved" and your constant lying on this site about the references not being valid. You clearly have difficulty understanding English or you simply have not read the sources. You need to stay off this wiki entry and let third parties who are both honest and competent deal with the editing. Failure to do so and I will request your being indefinitely banned from Wikipedia. Stop harassing me, stop censuring this site, and stop condescending to what is an open access forum. Got it? Disfasia —Preceding undated comment added 10:10, 19 July 2009 (UTC).

I have been following this discussion and I have to admit that I am a bit disillusioned with what Wikipedia is supposed to "be about". Disfasia has given a fair rendering with detailed bibliographies of this holiday. I would even go further and say that disfasia is more than fair as what appears on the national holiday site is pretty slanted towards a neo-nationalist rendering of a holiday that most people of color, most immigrants and most English speakers are made to feel unwelcome. Even more sadly is that the representation here on this wiki reflects that same type of harassment that many living in the province feel. I have checked the resources that disfasia states and it would seem that other people are simply defaming him. He gives solid resources--from newspapers and books. I see accusations of blogs being cited. I honestly see none. Who is reviewing this information? Perhaps this is not the proper space to ask these questions. If not, I apologize in advance. (Chang70 (talk) 16:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)chang70).
 * Well, something weird is that your account has been created today (July, 20). Of course, you may have followed the discussion with an IP account, but I don't understand why you would create an account only to talk here and on 's talkpage (contributions). I'm wondering... you may be 's clone. Anyway, explained everything above. We cannot add content not adhering to the neutral point of view to Wikipedia. And saying things like "English speakers are not welcome here" and "the representation here on this wiki reflects that same type of harassment that many living in the province feel" means that you are trying to fight for a group's point of view (here the English Canadians) and are trying to put turn this to political. This should not be turned to political (English VS French). We're not in Québec, neither in Canada, we're on Wikipedia- where the origin of people doesn't matter anymore. Please don't bring "life issues" on Wikipedia. Sincerely, Jimmytalk 17:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

You are a piece of work, you go and defend your point of view on other articles stating that what is being talked about is about Québec so it should be written as such, but here when a fact, not heresay or speculation, shows that the festivities are made for only one heritage group exclusively, you hide behind a false "wikipedia" neutral point of view argument. This is a "life issue" that is being catalogued in an encyclopedia, so the facts, whether they paint you and your group as treating another group in a way that is not in line with the values that you say you hold or not, need to be included. To not include this information would violate said neutrality of the article as it is unfairly politicized to one side. Do we need to talk about the recent well publicised celebration that created a major PR problem for the organizers? When a group of major French sponsers threaten to pull out unless the celebration gets rid of that "non french" performer, it shows that even in the new millenium there are still people who treat non "French-Canadians" as second class people. It is time that the minority, like you Jimmy, need to stop acting in a counter productive way. The French language in Québec will only be in jeopardy if parents stop teaching it to their children. How does prohibiting the use of, education in, and fair treatment of English by native English speaking people in Québec, regardless of their origins, help protect the French language? It doesn't, but it gives people who do not properly educate themselves and their children, who let the standards lower, and listen "blindly" to the propaganda someone to blame to make them selves feel better. In a place where 80 to 90% of the people use one language as their everyday language, people who "immigrate" to that area often have to learn that language to communicate. They might chose to continue to use their native language at "home", and should be able to do so without prejudice. So instead of taking all this time to try and hide the fact that there are still problems with "language-ism"/nationalism in Québec's national Holiday celebrations, why not accept that it has happend, and do something to stop it from happening again.

Yes I am an IP user, Wikipedia does not require anyone to create an account to contribute, if your only argument against my response is that I am a sock puppet of a registered user, like the previous response, than you have demonstrated that you are more scared that the truth will get out than actually making this article accurate and neutral. --24.11.34.119 (talk) 06:31, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Constant removal of cited information
Twice now correctly cited information has been removed, that the st-jean is celebrated in the us, once by an ip user, then by a registered user stating that it is not supported by reference? This is the reference: "The celebration became annual, and gradually more elaborate, and spread to other localities in Quebec, in Acadia (1880), and in the francophone regions of Ontario, the Canadian west, and even the USA." Please explain to this novice user, how that does not support the inclusion of "in the us"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 00:00, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi. If you want to add this information to the article, you need to provide a source for it. The source doesn't need to be online (it can be from a book for instance), but you need to state where we can find it. The Help:Citing sources page explains how. Thank you for your contributons and sorry for the misunderstanding. Bouchecl (talk) 00:55, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The correctly referenced material indicated that the celebrations had ended. The two new ones are weak references, but meet WP:V. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:03, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Do you speak English natively? They were suspended 1838-42, is the same as saying they were suspended between 1828 and 1842, not that they have been suspended since 1838-42. Secondly, that has nothing to do with the celebrations spreading to other areas in Canada and the USA, they were talking about the celebrations in Montreal, not the celebrations that spread elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 18:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * As per Wikipedia:No personal attacks, please comment on content, not on the contributor.
 * The sentence is entirely ambiguous. It's not clear if they started to be suspended in 1838 and they were finally completely suspended by 1842. Further reading does indicate that "Quebec City had its first official celebration in 1842". After that sentence, no further mention is made of celebrations in the United States. Your claim about spreading, etc., isn't supported by the article. The remaining references, while weak, do support acknowledgement in parts of the United States, but don't really deal with the extent of celebrations or their importance. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

English is as English does
I've noted your edits on National Holiday (Quebec). I don't know if you're Canadian, but I can tell you that in my experience, English-speaking Canadians refer to it as "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" almost exclusively. Nor is it just common usage - English language media use the same term: and. It's as much English as Deja vu or Samizdat. As it happens, I am Catholic, so I do use and hear the term "Nativity of Saint John the Baptist", but I do so purely in relation to relgious celebrations, not the socio-cultural celebrations the article is primarily about. Gabrielthursday (talk) 19:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If you notice, both of the articles you mention are talking about celebrations of French culture, the celebration it'self (Nativity of St John The Baptiste) is of a religious nature that has been adapted in French Canadian culture as patriotic, just like the Wikipedia article says. The section in question states that the celebration, which was and still is called the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist, in English, has been since used in Québec/French Canada. Not the "Saint-Jean Baptiste" day. The current celebrations around French Canadian culture are yes absolutely called "La Saint-Jean", and it's variations, but the feast day is still the "Nativity of Saint John the Baptiste"--Notwillywanka (talk) 01:01, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

The nature of the event in Canada is that it is called St. Jean Baptiste Day in Canada. This is not an exonym and endonym issue. To expand on the list at CBC alone: http://www.cbc.ca/gsa/?q=St.+Jean+Baptiste+Day compared to http://www.cbc.ca/gsa/?q=Nativity+of+Saint+John+the+Baptist which doesn't return any valid links but lists two close matches. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:49, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Only when referring to French Canadian Heritage celebrations, and/or patriotic (aka Nationalist) celebrations. When referring to the feast day that is the origin of the patriotic celebration, it's "Nativity of Saint John the Baptiste", that is the English name, that is what French Canadians started celebrating as our Patriotic Day, and only when used in the context of French Canadian "patronage" should it be called "Saint-Jean Baptiste" day.--Notwillywanka (talk) 01:01, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your expanded explanation, I think we aren't as far apart as I had thought. I wouldn't make such a strong distinction between the feast day and the cultural/heritage/patriotic celebrations that grew up around it. Saint-Jean-Baptist Day to me includes both the religious aspect and the more civic-cultural aspects. However, I would like to propose a compromise: the section should still be headed "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day", but the first term in the paragraph should be as you had it, the Nativity of St. John the Baptist. I think that initial reference is mainly to the religious celebration prior to its growth in patriotic and civic significance. I hope that sounds reasonable to you, I'm going to make the edit. Gabrielthursday (talk) 07:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2014

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

National Holiday (Quebec) → Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day – WP:COMMONNAME;WP:PRECISE In short, "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" is the common English name for this holiday; the current title is almost never used in English; and most importantly of all, the current title cannot and does not apply to the holiday outside of Quebec. Since the article is not limited to Quebec, it is currently inaccurate as well as not the common name. Gabrielthursday (talk) 08:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Most importantly, the scope of the article is not limited to the provincial holiday in Quebec, denoted by the current title. SJBD is celebrated by French Canadians throughout Canada, and even, to a limited extent, in some areas of the United States, as noted in the lede of the article. The current title is flat-out inaccurate outside of Quebec.
 * Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day is the common name for the celebration in English, both in Quebec and outside it. "National Holiday" simply is rarely used by English-speakers. Even for French-speakers, "La Saint-Jean" and "Saint-Jean-Baptiste" are much more common than "Fete Nationale"
 * The article discusses at length the origins and history of the celebration. It was never called "National Holiday" until 1977, and so the term is not very common in
 * Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day is the preferred use by the media. Since a simple google search is subject to confusion, given the common terms "National Holiday" & "Saint Jean Baptiste" outside the subject-matter of this article, I looked at some national media outlets in Canada: CBC, The Globe and Mail, and The National Post. The CBC, Canada's public broadcaster, used the term "SJBD" in all three stories it carried: Quebec rings in 180th St-Jean-Baptiste Day with parade, shows, PM to mark St. Jean Baptiste Day in Saint-Lazare-de-Bellechase and What's open and closed on St-Jean-Baptiste. In The Globe and Mail, SJBD does not appear to be mentioned this year. In past years, one columnist for the Globe and Mail used "National Holiday": ; however, the only news report I found employed "SJBD": The National Post, Canada's other national newspaper, carried a story that referred to "Quebec's annual holiday known as Fete nationale", but the photo was subtitled with a reference to "the St. Jean-Baptiste Day holiday":
 * Lastly, official messages from the Prime Minister and the Governor-General both used the term "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day"; neither employed "National Holiday", though the Prime Minister also referred to the "Fête nationale du Québec".

Survey

 * Oppose Support National Holiday (Quebec) is not the common name, Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day is. While primarily celebrated in Quebec, it is also celebrated outside of it and so using the current name drastically limits the scope. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Oppose The article is about the Provincial holiday in the province of Québec legally named "National Holiday". It is a patriotic day celebrated on the French Canadian Patron Saint's nativity. If someone wants to create another article about Saint John the Baptist day, aka the Nativity, around the celebrations that take place in Canada, outside of Québec, that is another story. This article is not about that, but about the official provincial holiday.
 * −Just because most people still call it the Sears Tower, because it used to be named that, it does not make it so. It's now the Willis Tower, also/formerly know as the Sears Tower. More people in Chicago still call it the Sears Tower, just like More people in Detroit call the GM Tower the Ren Cen. Just because some politician calls Canada Day, Dominion Day, it does not make it right, It's not like there was any quantification tests to become an elected official. News papers/TV-Radio stations simply report what the politicians say.
 * −In short this article IS about the Official Holiday in Québec, not the religious, or cultural celebration elsewhere in Canada.--Notwillywanka (talk) 16:32, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * No, the article discusses the provincial holiday at length, but it's about the day. WP:COMMONNAME is policy. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:48, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Agreed, the infobox and the lead section both point to the fact that SJBD is celebrated outside of Quebec. There is mention of an attempt to recognise SJBD as a federal holiday. I agree that the article could be fleshed out in terms of the celebration of SJBD outside Quebec, but the article is clearly not limited to Quebec. Also, I think you meant to support the move. Gabrielthursday (talk) 19:34, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * A question to Walter Görlitz? Did you actually mean to say support since oppose in this context would mean that you are against moving the article to Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, however the rest of your post seems to argue the exact opposite?--67.68.160.163 (talk) 22:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. Changed my vote. The article shouldn't be here but rather at the feast day. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:31, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The article has been National Holiday (of one form or another), since 2004, you would think that if it was an issue it would have come up in the 10 years? Also, to compare this article with Independence Day (United States) or National Independence Day (Poland), for example, it clearly states in one; commonly known as, and talks about celebrations in other countries, or regions; and in the other "The date corresponds to the date of other countries'", and goes on to explain the significance, just like this one does, even though all clearly are talking about the patriotic "National" holiday. Do we need to rename those two articles because they mention celebrations outside of the "Nation" where the statutory holiday takes place? This article is about the Québec provincial "National" holiday, that has been celebrated since 1977, as an official statutory holiday, of course it makes sense that there is some historical context as it evolved from a religious celebration, but it makes no sense to rename it.--Notwillywanka (talk) 04:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Did you check the archives? There are many discussions and it has been moved multiple times.
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_Holiday_(Quebec)&diff=284742772&oldid=284663082 moved National Holiday of Québec to National Holiday (Quebec)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_Holiday_(Quebec)&diff=284662444&oldid=282323940 moved Fête nationale du Québec (Saint Jean Baptiste Day) to National Holiday of Québec: Official English name. French name is stated in the introduction.
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_Holiday_(Quebec)&diff=222593353&oldid=222591682 moved Quebec's National Holiday to Fête nationale du Québec (Saint Jean Baptiste Day)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_Holiday_(Quebec)&diff=222591682&oldid=222591195 moved Saint Jean de Baptiste Day to Quebec's National Holiday over redirect
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_Holiday_(Quebec)&diff=222591195&oldid=222588230 moved Quebec's National Holiday to Saint Jean de Baptiste Day: See multiple references on discussion page
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=National_Holiday_(Quebec)&diff=222570568&oldid=222569896 moved Fête nationale du Québec to Quebec's National Holiday: As per the National Holiday Act (http://www.canlii.org/qc/laws/sta/f-1.1/20080515/whole.html
 * Six moves is more than none. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:15, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Support the common name in French and in English is Saint-Jean-Baptiste or Saint-Jean. WP:OFFICIALNAME we don't use the official name if a common name can be established. Google News:   -- Notice that "National Holiday" is almost entirely absent from Google News. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 06:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Support (as nominator). I've said much of what I wanted to say above. In my view, there are two separate and equally decisive rationales for changing the title: (1) the fact that the English common name (even in Quebec) is Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day; and (2) the fact that the article's scope extends beyond the confines of Quebec, where SJBD is celebrated without much (if any) evidence of the more secular/separatist tinge that has developed recently in Quebec. I'd also point out that "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" is the only name that was used for most of the history of this holiday, ever since it became distinguishable from the religious feast day (and though distinguishable, it is not entirely separate, even today). Gabrielthursday (talk) 18:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

French be in the lede
It currently reads "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day (French: Fête de la Saint-Jean-Baptiste), officially known in Quebec as National Holiday (French: La fête nationale)" however it until recently read "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day (French: Fête de la Saint-Jean-Baptiste), officially known in Quebec as La fête nationale (English: National Holiday)". The fact that leads me to believe that even though this is the English version of Wikipedia, there's a serious problem with the change. We're presently passing off a lie since it's not officially known as National Holiday in Quebec. It's not the name of the article, that was dealt with earlier on the talk page. It needs to reflect the legal name or we have to change the lede. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:02, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) It is officially known in Quebec as La fête nationale, and
 * 2) It is even called that by Anglophones
 * Actually you have that backwards. It has read this way until only recently when someone switched the English and French. In English it is officially named ad "National Holiday" that is the name that the government gave it in the English legislation, which in Québec has equal value. That is why it even states "official known as", instead of "also known as". It was not until July third, after renaming the article about the legal holiday in Québec to the religious celebration nationwide (Canada) that the French name was placed prominently. The French name (maybe common, however to Québec English speakers only) is still in the lede, so there is no problem as it reads right now.--Notwillywanka (talk) 18:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Quebec has English legislation? I'd like to see that. This in particular.
 * Regardless, it's even known as fête nationale in English publications:
 * http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/f%C3%AAte-nationale-celebrations-1.1275374
 * http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/anglophone-bands-back-on-roster-for-f%C3%AAte-nationale-1.778658
 * http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=ce2b6068-f8b9-4bd9-8148-490d012a7ecf
 * http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/25/fete-nationale-celebration-north-of-montreal-ends-in-clashes-with-police-22-arrests/
 * In other words, it's a loan word. Granted, The Globe and Mail doesn't use the term and I didn't check other publications. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:23, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree that "Fete Nationale" should be given the first mention. Livorno is not "Leghorn" despite the fact that "Leghorn" is the English word for it; but English-speakers now typically use the Italian. In this case, English-speakers typically use the French term, rather than the English translation. Gabrielthursday (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * All Quebec Laws have to be enacted in English and French, it is mandated in the Canadian constitution section 133, here is the [National Holiday Act] in English. Using news agencies who's writers are based inside of an area with a "regional dialect" does not demonstrate widespread English usage, many of the corespondents are native French speakers or Native English dialect speakers who also employ terms like "close the lights", that does not make it correct or "universal". Wikipedia is a worldwide encyclopedia, and should be intelligible to all English speakers, not just to the people who speak the local dialect that the article is written about. It is not an "English translation" but the actual legal name of the holiday, there is nothing wrong with also mentioning that many "locals" call it by the french name, just like they call a convenience store a "dépaneur", Native English speakers usage of French loan words in Québec varies depending on region/education/assimilation/length of residence/etc.--Notwillywanka (talk) 18:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, English-speakers outside Quebec typically call it "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day". It doesn't really matter much - I suspect that the question is really whether for a secondary name in an article we should prioritise an official name or the more common usage. Obviously, for an article title, the common name is preferred; but for a secondary name, I don't have any clear idea of what the preference is. I think part of the distaste for "National Holiday" is a combination of the banality of the term combined with the lack of its currency in the vernacular. At any rate, it's not a significant question. Gabrielthursday (talk) 02:54, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * WTF? Quebec never signed the constitution.
 * Second, all Canadian Federal laws must be in both English and French. Every province has its own provincial official languages. New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province. Quebec's official language is French. The remaining provinces are English. So in BC, there is no French legislation and in Quebec there's no modern-day English legislation.
 * Third, the English is not legislation it's a translation, but it's not official.
 * As Gabrielthursday stated, it's "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" in English Canada and then fête nationale as I showed. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:03, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Walter, I'm afraid you've got a couple facts wrong. Firstly, regardless of Quebec's consent to the Constitution, they remain bound by it and their legislature passes laws in both English and French. Secondly, while Quebec's official language is French, the French and English versions of its statutes have equal force (iirc, Quebec tried to give its French versions of its statutes primacy, the SCC declared it unconstitutional, and they amended Bill 101 (Charter of the French Language) to give them equal footing.
 * So, to be fair, both "National Holiday" and "Fete Nationale" are official names. "National Holiday" is definitely the "official" English name. But in terms of usage, I believe Fete Nationale is used much more commonly even by English-speakers, so you have that going for you.
 * I'll bow out of the argument- I don't really think it makes much of a difference, but I do still have a slight preference for mentioning "Fete Nationale" first, fwiw. Gabrielthursday (talk) 05:43, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * In regards to the statement: "WTF? Quebec never signed the constitution." A> thanks for using vulgarities and keeping it civil. B> Québec may have never "consented" to the 1982 Constitutional amendments - which was not required as Britain was in charge of passing that law, the 1982 "repatriation" of the constitution has nothing to do with section 133 of the constitution, which was already part of the constitution before 1982.
 * The point is, that the official name of the statutory holiday in English, the language we are using here, and the language of this quasi-encyclopedia, is correct as National Holiday. The "common name" is not in question in this discussion, as it was already decided that it apparently is "Saint Jean Baptiste Day", the official French language name is already included and follows the same patter as other pages with multiple names in different languages, in parenthesis after the English name for example: National Patriots' Day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 23:44, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if you interpret a TLA as vulgar. If I had wanted to be vulgar, I would have been, however my point was not to offend. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:49, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

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Name of the Holiday must be changed accordingly to it's real name
The name of the page is wrong. It should be named "Québec National Day" instead of "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" because the Québec government officially changed the name of this holiday in 1977. The holiday isn't religious anymore. Also, considering this page is a direct traduction of the "Fête nationale du Québec" page, it should respect the official name of the holiday.

Some could argue that French-speaking people outside of Québec still celebrate the original "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day", but this is not an issue since another article already exists separetely about the original St-Jean eve (in both french and english).

--Goldagent (talk) 01:04, 11 June 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goldagent (talk • contribs) 00:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The name in English is correct as the celebration in Quebec is only one part of the events on the day. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Did you read my comment ? What are your arguments regarding my own arguments ? Why keeping the "St-Jean-Baptiste" name for this page while there is already another page for the non-Québec celebration ?

--Goldagent (talk) 00:13, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I did. I do not have to respond to your points as they are not the WP:COMMONNAME in English. Take a look an English calendar for instance. If it is listed, it will be listed using this name, like this one. I know what its name is in French, and the French project can use whatever term they want. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:24, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Specific article for the Quebec National feast
The rationale behind the denial of a specific article called ‘Fete nationale du Quebec’ makes no sense and is just wrong. You can twist it any way you want, there is a reality out there beyond the English speaking world. For instance, Unicode may have refused to create an emoticon for the Quebec flag, it doesn’t mean it is inexistent. You may not want to acknowledge it, but do the right thing and name it the way it is. 173.176.8.175 (talk) 20:06, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

 * When two topics are closely related, it often makes sense to cover them in a single article, and such is the case here. Could you be more specific about what you would change to improve the article? And please remember to assume good faith. Indefatigable (talk) 15:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day


text:
User talk:Fruitfly~enwiki

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Classic Rock
Hello. I was wondering if you would like to participate in my classic rock survey. I'm trying to find the most liked classic rock song. There is more information on my user page. Hope you participate! 03:01, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Fruitfly~enwiki


text:
Vinegar Joe

Vinegar Joe may mean:

 * nickname for Joseph Stilwell, US general
 * Vinegar Joe (band)

title: Vinegar Joe


text:
Æthelfrith (disambiguation)

Æthelfrith (died c. 616) was King of Bernicia and Deira in northern England.

Æthelfrith or Aethelfrith may also refer to:

 * Æthelfrith of Elmham (died c. 745), Bishop of Elmham
 * Æthelfrith of Mercia (fl. 883–915), Ealdorman in Mercia

title: Æthelfrith (disambiguation)


text:
Leo I

Leo I may refer to:

People

 * Pope Leo I (400–461), also known as Pope Saint Leo the Great
 * Leo I (emperor), Roman emperor from 457 to 474
 * Leo I, Prince of Armenia (d. 1140)
 * Leo I, King of Armenia (1150–1219), sometimes also referred to as Leo II, or Levon I the Magnificent, first king of Cilician Armenia

Other

 * LEO (computer), first computer used for commercial business applications
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title: Leo I


text:
Talk:Lactate dehydrogenase

Suspected Figure mistake
I am afraid that the arrow at the blue H+ on the 3rd figure has to run into the opposite direction. Pyruvate has to absorb two hydrogen atoms to become lactate. (Géza Meszéna)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.139.22.49 (talk) 17:39, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

 * This was written by me, here is my signature. Gezameszena (talk) 13:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Untitled
Lactate dehydrogenase is an enzyme. It is not a base. Lactate, or lactic acid, is what is found in fermented milk. There is no connection between the lactate found in skeletal muscle and that found in fermented milk.

 * I got rid of that. Please note that the image is temporarily incorrect (no covalent double bond between C2 and its ketone group in pyruvate), but the wiki will figure out that I uploaded something better.   JFW |  T@lk  11:47, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Conversion of lactate to pyruvate
I am wondering which LDH isoenzyme catalyzes the conversion of lactate to pyruvate and if it differs among tissues.I know that LDH5 cant do it due to the 4 M subunits it contains.

Response from professional enzymologist: Actually, both isoenzymes can interconvert pyruvate and lactate. It depends on the amount of substrate and cofactor present relative to their respective Km's and the Km's of the products.

Symbol lookup doesn't work
Notice: Undefined offset: 1 in /www/pub/nomenclature/data/get_data.php on line 36

Question: how is LDH measured?

Massive LD
I'm wondering if anyone (doctors) know of a reason for a massively raised LD. A patient with gallbladder cancer has an LDH of over 10000. I've never seen an LDH of that magnitude before and can't find any literature on it in those levels. Is it likely to simply be a tumour marker for this sort of cancer or is it something? --203.26.122.12 (talk) 03:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Mitochondrial disorders
Will this enzyme be increased in mitochondrial disorders that are marked by the blood lactate increase? It is useful as a test tool in such occations? -- C opper K ettle  10:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

isoforms in red blood cells
I think red blood cells can't be assigned uniquely with the LDH1, see http://www.clinchem.org/content/30/8/1353.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martombo (talk • contribs) 11:32, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

correction
Could someone change the formula as the picture shows pyruvic acid and lactic acid, but the enzyme substrate is pyruvate and lactate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.170.90.6 (talk) 06:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Figures in the reactions section fixed. Jazzlw (talk) 05:40, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Ethanol induced hypoglycemia
Someone needs to add more details to this section as it does not link nor gives any correlation of NAD+ to hypoglycemia other than simple causality. The introduction of anion gap is also out of topic.Hbk2818 (talk) 19:18, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Rewrote introduction
I came here to find out exactly what LDH was. I couldn't understand the introduction, so after I figured it out, I rewrote it to make it easier to understand.

Wikipedia is written for the average reader, not the specialist. I read NEJM and Lancet every week, and I couldn't understand it.

Please check the introduction for accuracy. But don't forget, the introduction in particular should be written for the non-technical reader. --Nbauman (talk) 05:20, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Reaction mechanism shows incorrect flow of electrons
The mechanism depicted here shows an arrow with a half peak instead of a full peak which is only used when 1 electron or radical is being transferred. In this reaction, it is a lone pair, regular mechanism and the arrow is incorrect. Mbenzdabest (talk) 05:16, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

I made new figures for both of the two in the reaction section, fixing many errors in the old one. Let me know what you think. Jazzlw (talk) 05:41, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lactate dehydrogenase


text:
North Carolina State Auditor

The State Auditor of North Carolina is a statewide elected office in the U.S. state of North Carolina. The state auditor is a constitutional officer responsible for overseeing and reviewing the financial accounts of all state government agencies. The auditor also conducts performance audits of state agencies, ensures state agencies' accounting conforms with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, evaluates the integrity of computer-generated information, and investigates the misuse of state funds or property. The incumbent is Jessica Holmes, who became state auditor on December 16, 2023.

Auditors have been employed by North Carolina's government since it was an English colony. The Office of Auditor of Public Accounts was created in 1862. Six years later it was replaced by the Office of State Auditor, filled by a candidate popularly elected every four years and not subject to term limits. The state auditor was responsible for several accounting and fiscal duties for much of the position's existence, though these were assigned elsewhere in the 20th century. The state auditor leads the Department of State Auditor and sits on the North Carolina Council of State.

History of the office
The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina, adopted on March 1, 1669, for the Province of Carolina, provided for twelve auditors to maintain various accounts, but there is no evidence that the offices were ever brought into use. Over the following decades, boards of auditors were appointed by the North Carolina General Assembly and the King of England's comptrollers to attend to matters in various localities as stipulated by the English crown. In 1782 the General Assembly appointed Richard Caswell as the Comptroller of the State of North Carolina, responsible for the maintenance of public accounts. The assembly also established ten boards of auditors for different areas of the state.

In 1862 the General Assembly altered the previous system by establishing the Office of Auditor of Public Accounts, who was to be elected every two years by the legislature. The post was abolished in 1865. The North Carolina Constitution of 1868 created the Office of State Auditor, superseding the auditor of public accounts and abolishing the post of comptroller. The auditor was to "superintend the fiscal affairs of the State; examine and settle accounts of persons indebted to the State; liquidate claims by persons against the State; and to draw warrants on the State Treasurer for moneys to be paid out of the treasury." The document also moved the office out of the legislative branch of government and into the executive branch, stipulating that its holder was to be popularly elected every four years.

The auditor's original duties included writing an annual report on state revenue and spending—including projections for the following fiscal year, maintaining general accounts of the state, recommending improvements to state fiscal management, settling claims against the state and its own claims against persons, certifying treasury balances, and issuing warrants for treasury disbursements. In 1872 the auditor was made responsible for compiling local tax lists for county sheriffs to aid in their collection and ascertaining that sheriffs properly collected. The office was relieved of these responsibilities in 1923. In 1921 the General Assembly empowered the auditor to audit and adjust public accounts and tasked them with overseeing all state accounting systems. In 1955 the assembly transferred the general accounting duties and responsibility for treasury disbursement warrants to the Budget Bureau. In 1971 North Carolina adopted a new constitution which altered the office little, though the Executive Organization Act of 1971 created the Department of State Auditor. In 1974 the General Assembly authorized the state auditor to conduct operational audits of state agencies.

Ralph Campbell Jr., sworn in to the office of state auditor in 1993, was the first black person ever elected to a statewide executive office in North Carolina. During his tenure he equipped auditing staff with computers. Les Merritt, who assumed office in 2005, was the first Certified Public Accountant to serve as state auditor. Beth Wood, sworn in 2009, was the first woman to hold the office. Incumbent Jessica Holmes, sworn in on December 16, 2023, is the first black woman to hold the office.

Powers, duties, and structure
The state auditor is a constitutional officer. Article III, Section 7, of the Constitution of North Carolina stipulates the popular election of the state auditor every four years. Unlike most of the 18 other states with an elected auditor, North Carolina does not require candidates for the office to be Certified Public Accountants. The office holder is not subject to term limits. In the event of a vacancy in the office, the Governor of North Carolina has the authority to appoint a successor until a candidate is elected at the next general election for members of the General Assembly. Per Article III, Section 8 of the constitution, the auditor sits on the Council of State. The auditor is ex officio a member of the Local Government Commission, the Capital Facilities Finance Agency, the Debt Affordability Advisory Committee, and several other bodies. They are a nonvoting member of the Office of State Budget and Management's Council of Internal Auditing. They are fifth in line of succession to the governor. As with all Council of State officers, the auditor's salary is fixed by the General Assembly and cannot be reduced during their term of office. In 2022, the auditor's annual salary was US$146,421.

The state auditor leads the Office of the State Auditor. The department is split into a general administration division and an auditing division. The former division is led by the state auditor's chief deputy and handles administrative concerns including personnel matters, internal budgeting and procurement, and intra-department coordination. The latter division is headed by a deputy state auditor and several audit managers and is responsible for conducting audits. As of December 2022, the department has 124 employees retained under the terms of the State Human Resources Act. The department is headquartered in the Albemarle Building in downtown Raleigh. It also maintains offices in Pitt, New Hanover, Forsyth, and Buncombe counties.

Article V, Chapter 147 of the North Carolina General Statutes grants the state auditor broad authority to examine all documents and financial affairs of all state agencies. The official is also responsible for auditing federal grant programs in the state and can audit private entities which receive state funds. The state auditor works with the state controller to compile the state's annual comprehensive financial report and, as required by federal law, issues the Statewide Single Audit Report. The auditor's office performs various financial and technological audits and other investigations, including performance audits of state agencies, ensuring state agencies' accounting conformity with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, evaluations of the integrity of computer-generated information, and inquiries into the misuse of state funds or property. The Department of State Auditor maintains a tip line to collect reports on government malfeasance. It can conduct special investigations at the request of the General Assembly or the governor. The auditor is empowered to summon people to produce records and answer questions under oath, but does not have law enforcement powers and cannot bring criminal charges against individuals. The office does not conduct personal tax audits. The auditor can request advisory opinions on legal matters from the North Carolina Attorney General.

title: North Carolina State Auditor


text:
Æthelwulf (disambiguation)

Æthelwulf (died 858) was King of Wessex from 839 until his death.

Æthelwulf may also refer to:
 * Æthelwulf, or Adulf (died c. 680), Anglo-Saxon cleric and saint
 * Æthelwulf of Elmham (died after 781), Anglo-Saxon Bishop of Elmham
 * Æthelwulf of Selsey (died c. 824), Anglo-Saxon Bishop of Selsey
 * Æthelwulf of Berkshire (died 871), Saxon ealdorman who won the Battle of Reading
 * Æthelwulf, or Athulf (died after 1013), Anglo-Saxon Bishop of Hereford
 * Æthelwulf (poet), Anglo-Saxon poet, author of De abbatibus

title: Æthelwulf (disambiguation)