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Talk:Pashtunwali

Untitled
Melmestia is regardless of religion or race. Google Marcus Lutrell or read Lone Survivor. In it Marcus Lutrell, the White Southern, Christian, lone survivor of a Navy SEAL team, is sheltered by a Pashtun tribe under melmestia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.43.119.125 (talk) 12:59, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

why was the criticism section deleted?
Kabuldoorast(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kabuldoorast&action=view) , what was wrong with it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:4A8C:E300:5CBC:50C2:76E8:A75F (talk) 12:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

criticism section
I think we should add a section “criticism of Pashtunwali”, including the criticisms of Churchill and modern radical feminists

Added criticisms

Untitled
This goes to all the misunderstandings below. If you are not Pashtun, then you will not understand Pastunwali no matter how hard you try, Pashtunwali is genetic, its in our Pashtun blood, we can be hospitable to our enemies and strangers but please do not disect it as if you can proove something, cause in the end we are Pashtuns and we stick together no matter how hard you try to segregate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.245.13.143 (talk) 15:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Yours point being, my Pashtun brother?

What is this?
Trust in Y_W_H/G_D/_LL_H/the ONE/the CREATOR/the ARCHITECT of the Universe  - what is this? RickK | Talk 04:08, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * It seems to be similar to the requirement for belief and faith in God that other religions such as Christianity state. Perhaps it can go without being said, but it is a major tenet, and I notice that several different religions have their name for Diety included, so this may be a way if indicating that Pashtunwali is a cultural ideology rather than a strictly religious institution.  I have some background in comparative religious studies, but no familiarity with Pashtun culture so this is only a guess.  nameless

Somebody needs to decide which is the proper word to use for God. I've changed all occurrences to Allah, as that is listed first, but I have no idea which is most correct. --Eequor 21:03, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Pashtunwali & Islam
As non-Muslim (Christian) Pathan descendant, can we claim to be Pathans if we have lived the code even as we have forgotten who we are? I am the son of the son of the son of a Pathan; I immediately recognize the spirit of Pashtunwali if not the name. Am I am Pathan or 'of Pathan descent'?

dear members of Wikipedia ! I as a viewer of your webpage and originally pashtun from afghanistan as I have better information about our culture traditions and know it better so have to admitt that you have mentioned Pashtunwali as a religion, why? its not a religion perhaps traditional laws which are written by elders like Wazir Muhammad Gul Khan Mohmand. its highly respected by the international courts in geneva and they have adopted some human rights laws from it. It is mostly similar under the laws of islam and pashtun people are obeying just one god (Allah) and islam is the only religion in this nation. hope you correct the sentences wrote about pashtunwali. thanks -- This article doesn't make any sense. Whoever wrote this was certainly not a Pukhtun. I am a Pukhtun and I can assure you that pukhtunwali has nothing to with God and other religious/philosophical concepts. Pukhtunwali is primarily an honor code and a code of conduct, which is followed by Pukhtuns. It has to do with hospitality, revenge, bravery, pride and the protection of women, property and freedom. I don't have the time to edit this page but someone with a bit of knowledge about Pukhtunwali really needs to redo this page as it is giving a lot of erroneous information.

As Pashtuns we don't recognize the term Pathan as ours. Not all Pathans are Pashtun. Pathans can be anyone from the surrounding areas of what is known as "greater Afghanistan". Tajiks, Turkmen, Arabs, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Baloch who settled in these areas are also known as Pathans. Rajputs are also known as Rajput Pathans or Rajput Khans. Basically the modern elite of the Pashtun bulk don't care who calls themselves a Pathan or Khan for that matter. But to be a Pashtun certain things are required by them, you must have lived amongst the Pashtuns, know how to speak the language (Pashto), and live your life by (Pashtunwali). The older scholarly elite will out rightly denounce you as a Pashtun if you are a non-Muslim. To them it wouldn’t matter if you even wrote a 1000 page book in Pashto. There are groups of Sikhs, Hindus and Christian in the Sharhad area of Pakistan who speak the language, and are recognized as "Pathans" by locals but amongst the Pashtun they are never considered as equals.

--

I don't think any Christian worth his salt could "practise" this code; recognise it yes, but its practise is contrary to Christian principles. Does Christianity sanction revenge ("Badal")? Or feuding? Yes, the old Christian rulers of Europe regularly feuded, but that isn't what appeals to the mind of a modern educated man, influenced by modern European culture. This "code" is actually a state of mind, but where it usually succeeds in leading one can be seen from the general state of Pashtun and Afghan society nowadays (and it has always been like that - except that developments there since 1979 brought it into the international limelight). As to the usage of the word "Pathan", it is an Indian term for Pashtun/Pakhtun. The person above is incorrect when he says "not all Pathans are Pashtun". That is nonsensical. This name does not apply to Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmen and other Central Asian non-Afghan minorities living within the modern Afghan state. They are known loosely as "Afghans", but never as "Pashtuns", which implies Pashto-speaker; in fact the term "Afghan" also originally referred only to the Pashtun ethnicity - but came to be used for other ethnicities resident in the state which Afghans (Pashtuns) established - Afghanistan. Similarly here on the Pakistani side, the name does not apply to Indian ethnicities like the Punjabis, Seraikis and Hindko speakers, but many of these try to claim some kind of "Pathan descent", because these Indians/Punjabis have a historical awe of Pashtuns, and have a massive inferiority complex regarding themselves. He is right when he says that only Pashto speakers can be called Pashtun - even though there are many racially non-Pashtuns living among Pashtuns, but who are considered to be "Pashtuns" because they speak only Pashto: like the ethnic Arab or Turkic Syeds, Pirs and Qureshis, etc. Like most ethnicities, but more so in this case, being a Pashtun isn't dependent on one's genes or "caste" as it is the ability to speak Pashto. Thus a number of Pashtuns who emigrated to Hindustan now speak only Urdu/Hindi - having totally forgotten Pashto, and when they refer to themselves as Pashtuns, their brothers in Pakhtunkhwa (the actual land of the Pashtuns) look down upon them with the utmost contempt. Then again, Islam is a separate theme from the basic Pashtun cultural rootstock, but has become so intertwined in the extremist Pashtun conciousness over the past 800 years, that as my "brother" says above, there are no other Pashtuns than Muslim; certainly no "Christian Pashtuns". At least not officially so. The Islamic doctrine certainly meshes well with Pashtunwali and all it implies.

But this man (which I presume is what he is) is right when he says that the Punjabi/Indian Rajputs caste are Khans; for they are descended from the same White Huns who produced the Khan feudal aristocracy among Pashtuns. But not every Pashtun tribe has Khans; and Khans are not original Pashtuns as they so forcefully proclaim, but Turkic "outsiders" who hijacked Pashtun overlordship and the claim to be Pashtun "blue bloods" in a most forceful manner. It goes without saying that a large number of the precepts of the barbaric "Pashtunwali" owe their origins to the Huns, who are reviled the world over for attacking civilisation - and not to the original Indo-Iranian Pashtun society belonging to Gandhara and Sattagydia which the Huns overran and destroyed. Hence the Rajputs display the same marital "chivalry" and indeed also the racial features that their Hun (or "Khan") brothers in the Charsadda and Mardan districts of the Pakhtunkhwa area exhibit. In fact, "Khan" is a Persianised corruption of the word "Hun" - but as it spread for centuries throughout Central and North Asia due to the spread of extensive Hunnish incursions and influences, even the Mongol Genghis Khan had it as his name - although he was not a Pashtun as we all know. Lastly, the writer above says that most of the the modern Pashtun elite doesn't give a damn about whether or not they are regarded as "Pashtun". He is right. Pesonally I am a "Pashtun" Syed from the north Charsadda region, and I don't give a f*** about being called "Pashtun" or not. My cousins are crazy to identify themselves as such, but that is because they are primitive upstarts, and need their heads examining. For me, being a Pashtun implies backwardness, boorishness, uncouthness, violence, thuggery - things opposed to modernity and civilisation - a lot of bad, nasty things I would do without. And if you are a Christian my dear, then you are lucky - and I advise you to remain being one; "Pashtunwali" is the path to, and of, the Devil himself.

-- You are right not to give a f*** about being called "Pashtun". Being a Syed you can earn respect of Pashtuns but still not eligible to be a Pashtun by merely speaking their language. In the south Pakhtunkhwa, particularly in Kurram and Orakzai areas,there is very clear distinction between a "Pashtun" and "Sayyeds". Sayyeds are usually not expected to follow Pashtunwali. They are respected for their claim to be descendants of Prophet.Why are your cousins crazy to be identified as Pashtuns?? They must be properly briefed about their roots. There are quite a few other dimensions regarding Pashtun and Pashtunwali.For example it can be classified on 1)geographical,racial,linguistic and ethnic grounds as a group and 2)Social, moral,ethical and cultural grounds as a following.As a set of code of conduct and honour, it is basically a yardstick to measure the confidence, courage,guts,self belief and respect for the time tested traditions. At times one has not only to put at stakes his life but face harsh fueds for generations to uphold Pashtunwali. It is somewhat a test that every self reliant Pashtun is expected to pass through in testing times to earn respect of the community,group or tribe. Calling "Pashtunwali" barbaric would be a bit too harsh. As one of it's traits, to keep your word even at the cost of your life,though a bit rigid but has the universal appeal. And the good news for my christian friend is that if you have the blood of a Pashtun and recognise the spirit of Pashtunwali as you said then you are definitely a Pashtun. At many instances one finds Pashtuns appreciating some individual from other ethnic groups like a Punjabi or englishman by saying"...a very good Pakhtun(Pashtun)man". It's very obvious that such a statement comes only after they observe or consider that that person's behaviour or action was according to spirit of Pashtunwali.So it's free of one religious beliefs.116.71.222.70 (talk) 21:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Pashtunwali supports all monothiest faiths, not only Islam. For example, Christianity and Judaism are Allah's religions same as Islam is Allah's reigion. Only difference is that people changed Christianity and Judaism but Islam is unchanged. Christ Jesus practiced Pashtunwali and that is well documented.--PosePetal (talk) 13:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Well Pashtunwali is on the whole compatible with Islam and Judaism(though I am not sure if tureh goes well with ‘turn the other cheek’ in Christianity). I doubt Jesus(Peace Be upon him) followed Pashtunwali as such as he was not a Pashtun but of the Hebrew/Ancient Jewish people(Children Of Israel).

Pahshtunwali as a cultural institution
There is no doubt as to the distinction between Islamic law and Pashtunwali. While there is little reliable information the origins of Pashtunwali, it is a cultural tradition that almost certainly predates Islam. It is in reflection of Pashtun tribal society as well as a guide to conduct and conflict resolution so there is a definite religious influence in it. In Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan the degree to which Pashtunwali or Islamic law holds sway varies. The soviet invasion and subsequent 25 years of war contributed to a considerable dissolution of traditional tribal custom to the point were Islamic law, that is not necessarily grounded in tribal and family tradition, has taken hold and now plays a larger role in the society. In Pakistan, the central governments attempt to bring the tribal areas under it's control has had a similar effect. In many areas an Islamic Ulema rather than the Jirga is the institution called upon to decide matters in the community. However, the Pashtunwali is still not likely to entirely replaced. It is still common for a person with a dispute or accused of a crime to be asked whether he wants to be judged under Islamic law or the Pashtunwali.

=
================== True although Islam is part of modern and medieval Pashtun(as opposed to the ancient Pakhta/Pactyn) culture to the point where some people would say there is no such thing as a non-Muslim Pashtun. Also sometimes people ask for Islamic scholars to be put on traditional Pashtun jirgas.

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed?
The article bears a tag that puts "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed." It directs one to the talk page to discuss the neutrality and accusracy.

But I went through the history of the talk page and I am mystified what issues prompted the tag. It if it can not be explained it should be removed. -- Geo Swan 13:14, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

 * This article is not neutral. Like all cultures and religions, Pashtunwali probably has disadvantages and dark sides that should be explained, particularly when the people that allegedly practice this wonderful culture are are oppressive and oppressed (not to mention the treatment of minorities and women).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.53.214 (talk) 15:33, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

About that, it does mention things many people would view negatively E.G. badal. As for treatment of women namus(treating women with respect and protecting them) is a well documented Pashtun culture trait, every source on Pashtun culture I have googled and every book that touches in the subject (even ones that paradoxically blame it for ‘honour’ killings, marriage of young girls etc.)

What treatment of women do you refer to?
 * Well, as a non-Pathan I must say that the article is pretty blatantly one in praise of Pashtunwali, with little or nothing about: its critics; possible weaknesses; the extent to which non-Pashtuns see it as conforming with Islam or other ethical/religious traditions; or the role of Pashtunwali in dealing with non-Pathans or in multi-cultural societies in general. I also don't see much, if anything, about the role of women in Pashtunwali. -- Orange Mike 16:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * This is probably one of the least neutral articles I've ever seen on wikipedia. It is completely riddled with platitudes that it is rendered useless.  The very tennets that claim to be a part of Pashtunwali are completely at odds with the realities in Afghanistan, especially with regards to the treatment of women and minorities.  This is bordering on sophistry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.191.249.6 (talk) 15:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

It documents real world examples E.G. melmestia benefiting both a US soldier on the run from the taliban and a madrasa student accused of murder, Namus is reflected in some laws such as the death penalty for rape(also judicial badal), oh and remember to assume good faith son. What treatment of women do you refer to?

 * The following statement "Contemporaries may say that all ethnic Afghans are Pashtuns, more orthodox people will disagree. For those who disagree, the deciding factor is dependent on how one lives one's life. " is outrageous. What about the other ethnic groups of Afganistans (Tajiks for example)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.193.38.39 (talk) 16:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

 * In my opinion, I don't think there is such a thing as an "ethnic Afghan". Afghan is a nationality and Pashtun and Tajik are ethnicities.  Therefore it is not possible to have an "ethnic Afghan".  There are ethnic Pashtuns of Afghan nationality as well as ethnic Tajiks of Afghan nationality.  There are also ethnic Pashtuns of Pakistani nationality. Alexkreuz 23:04, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Unless I'm wrong, the conflict here is from different uses of the word Afghan, ie. "Citizen of the state of Afghanistan" vs. "ethnic Afghan where Afghan is a traditional synonym for Pushtu". The above statement is just plain confusing and seems like it should be deleted. I'm not familiar with wikipedia's policy on the matter, but I'd think that the term "Pashtuns" denotes a certain ethnic group, while "Afghans" is a bit more ambiguous and shouldn't be used except to refer to "citizens of Afghanistan"--68.76.233.134 01:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

***Pashtunwali a religion***
Please remove the bit about Pashtunwali being a religion. There is no historical fact, verbal fact, or written fact of any sort amongst us Pashtuns to say that Pashtunwali (the way of the Pashtun) is any form or sort a religion. The way of the Sumuria warrior, Bushido, is a set of rules and guides which are also thousands of years old, but it is clearly not a religion. Pashtunwali, is just known to all Pashtuns as the way of the Pashtuns, as how they should behave, react, treat, and live. It has no religious merits, nor does it speak of gods, prophets, heaven or hell, how we are born, why we are here, what is our purpose like all religions explains and elaborates. Pashtunwali is more like a law then a religion. It is the law of the tribal and warrior people of Pakhtunkhwa (Pakhtun domain), it sets rules and guides. It doesn't explain to us why we are born, why we exist, what is our purpose. It only shows us the best way to live our lives by ways that have been acquired by years of experiance and how to deal with so and such issues.

So I request remove Pashtunwali as "religion" from the article, unless you can provide me solid evidence that makes it a religion, please don't add some individuals personal wet dreams to the list as research.

Pathan VS Pashtun
After reading this discussion i can make out one think, people dont have their facts straight for sure. Let me make it really really simple for eveyone by giving facts which most people, even Pathans ignorant of their roots dont know. I, being a Pathan (Niazi Tribe) myself would like to assure of the following information being as close to fact as possible.

Pathan VS Pashtun 101: --

Since pre-Islamic times, the Bani-Israel/Banni-Afghana, tribe had settled in around Mecca as well as at Ghor, what is now Afghanistan. Khalid Bin Walid (One of the Prophet's (PBUH) companion & the first great Islamic conqurer; and belonging to the Bani-Israel/Afghana Tribe settled around Mecca) after accepting Islam he either proceeded in person or sent a letter to his kinsmen of the Bani Israel/Afghana, settled in Ghor, to bring them tiding of the new faith Islam and and invitation to join.

As a result a deputation of the Afghans of Ghor led by Qais (Later Adbur Rashid, after accepting Islam) met the Prophet at Medina and accepted the new faith. Qais later retured to Ghor to propogate the new faith. He died leaving three sons, Sarbanr, Bitan & Ghurghusht.

From the above mentioned three sons aswell as Karlanr (Being a foundling) we get all the Pathan tribes we know today. Below are some of the famous tribes under each of the three sons aswell as Karlanr:

Sarbanr:

- Abdali - Tor
 * 1) Tarin
 * 1) Sherani
 * 2) Urmar
 * 3) Yusufzai

Bitan: -- Ghurghusht: ---
 * 1) Niazi
 * 2) Suri
 * 3) Lodis
 * 4) Dotan
 * 5) Ghilji
 * 1) Kakars
 * 2) Mando
 * 3) Gaduns
 * 4) Safis

Karlanri: -
 * 1) Wazir
 * 2) Kakay

So as you can see by the details above. The Pathans are a people descending from the above mestioned brothers. What ever language they speak, where ever they live, they are Pathans.

On the other hand a Pashtun is a person who speaks the Pashtu language (Sister language of Farsi/Persian, itis a local language of what is now know Afghanistan. He may be a Pathan, he may be not. A person from any religion, sect, race can be Pashtun if he can speak the language. Any individual living in Afghanistan today, speaking the language Pashtu will be a Pashtun, but he will only be a Pathan if he is from the above mentioned lineage.

I hope this clearifies a lot. Thankyou.

By: ---         Asim Khan Niazi niazi.asim@gmail.com Information taken from credible sources including "The Pathan" by OLAF CAROE.

Wow please tell me you are joking, did you just make a horrible disticntion between Pathan and Pashtun? Your a lose nut, both terms are interchanebale with eachother. Pathan is just the indian term for Pashtuns while Pashtun is the correct form. The Purest Pashtuns come from Afghanistan, NOT Pakistan, anybody who's tribe is Pashtun and descends from those fictonal brothers you mentioned are pashtuns, while Pathan is an offensive word for Pashtuns. Clearly your Pakistani as your moronic comment indicates while you should know your people are not even real pashtuns but rather former hindus and dardic people who adopted Pashto.Akmal94 (talk) 10:13, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup
This article is written in a very informal, conversational style. See WP:Style for help in writing an encyclopedic article. --Jpbrenna 06:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign previously)

Correct transliteration of پختونوالی
The conventional transliteration of this Perso-Arabic spelling would be Pakhtunwali or Pakhtoonwali both of which are used several times in the article; however, the conventional term in English is Pashtunwali. I do not know whether this reflects the historical changing of an aspirated voiceless velar plosive (kh) to a sibilant or a difference of pronunciation in modern dialects of Pashto; whatever the case, it should be noted in the introduction, and the spelling Pashtunwali used thereafter. --Jpbrenna 06:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

 * The transliteration problem lies with the spelling of the word in the article. The Pashto letter ښ should be used instead, like so: پښتونوالی. Since    the letter can be pronounced as either an 'sh' or a 'kh,' depending on the speaker's dialect, that accounts for the confusion. I imagine whoever wrote     the article only had access to a Farsi keyboard. Perhaps someone could change the article? Hope that helps. --70.167.226.171 (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Economist article
An interesting, if controversial, article on Pushtuns was published in the Dec 23rd 2006 issue of the Economist magazine (vo 381; 8509) under the title "Honour among them". It may prove useful in referencing points. Andeggs 20:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Yeah have read it and will again

Gandhi??
I can't believe that Gandhi is quoted as admiring the Pashtunwali philosophy. I'm sure there are many admirable things about both his own philosophy and about Pashtunwali, but to suppose that Pashtunwali is a philosophy of non-violence is completely misleading and almost funny. Jackmitchell 19:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

NPOV tag
Came across the article from The Beast (1988 film) and fixed some NPOV stuff in the linked-to section, then started reading the rest of the article and saw stuff like What follows below is a typically pigheaded "Afghan nationalist's" confused elaboration in which he proudly tries to embellish this crude and medieval practise and justify it by trying to show gullible Western readers that it is at par with the norms of modern civilisation. Looks like it needs a lot more work than I can do right now, so I'm leaving it with an NPOV tag.

— J’raxis ✆✍  01:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

That sounds biased itself, removed the point of view tag for reasons I have given under the section here about neutrality and factual accuracy.

Pathanwali
Does this term have any merit for being included? I had never heard of the term before coming to this page. On Google it only received 556 hits, most of them being for a town in Pakistan by the same name. Also i highly doubt the "pathans" of India practice "pathanwali". The only two terms that should be included are Pashtunwali, and Pakhtunwali. IP198 18:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello! Looking over the talk page, I just now saw that you left this comment. The term is used by the Pathans in India. Please see references such as The Dawn (Pakistan) and Khyber (Afghanistan), for example. I hope this helps answer your inquiry. With regards, AnupamTalk 04:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

mosaic law
Is this sentence sourced:"Many of Pashtunwali's most basic precepts are rooted in Mosaic Law." I don't think dropping a sentence like this by itself without explanation is a good idea. If it is implied that the two share common roots expand it alot. If it is meant to state they share a common focus/vision/purpose/nature, the sentence should read something like "Pashtunwali's most basic precepts are similar in purpose and authority to Mosaic Law amoung the Pashtun people." I will change it unless someone has a good reason to keep it the same. --Wilson 15:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I think that entire section needs a little bit of work. I don't think comparing it to mosaic law and then linking to the article of mosaic law is constructive. I would much rather see a more coherent summary to what aspects of mosaic law pashtunwali is similar, and have them explained without reference to mosaic law. Comparison to mosaic law would suggest that the user has a general knowledge of what mosaic law is, which I doubt the majority do. Alexkreuz 22:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Teachings
* Faith I thought that Sikhism was a monotheistic religion?

Sikhism?

Nice and well written article but more authentic contributions and references are welcomed
This is a good written article. The discussion between Pathan and Pakhtun or Pashtun are needless. Pushtunwali is also regarded as only "PATHO" in many areas. The point that Pashtunwali is a religion or social law or tradition is still another topic. Al Biruni, writing in Tarikh al Hind, also alludes to the Pashtun tribes of Pakhtunkhwa as being neither Muslim nor Hindu, but simply Afghans which may mean that they practiced Pashtunwali.(1) What was that religion is unknown. Some say they used to practice Mosaic law perhaps Sabians.(2) Perhaps the Pashtunwali laws have been taken from Torah or Zabuur (i.e. the Psalms).

1:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest_of_Afghanistan 2:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tariq5 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I edited whole article
I reduced the word count of the article by removing some weasel words and academic language.

I tried not to change the meaning.

There is some nice poetic language in this article which I tried to respect.

There is still a lot of cuts and tidying that could be done to make this feel more encyclopedic. Some parts read like an advertisement. And I'm not sure about the phrase "space time continuum."

I took out one "5000 years" because it appears at the top.

I also changed a couple "almighty god"s to just "god." Hilary Gage (talk) 07:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to go through and edit out some of the passive voice Elwin-bennington (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

general feedback
I'm somewhat torn by this article.

1. The positives. - it i beautifully beautifully laid out - it's interesting, has good links, and is informative

2. The negatives -not at all neutrally expressed. If the proverbial man from mars were to read he article, he would think afghanistan / the border areas of pakistan was a paradise on earth. And without wishing to get into the history or the politics, they aren't a paradise, nor even close to one. Two examples: Pushtunwali does allow for a blood feud (but also provided mechanisms for resolving such a feud); and it does allow for keeping women in seclusion. In an english language treatment of the subject, this is noteworthy, per the wikipedia guidelines.

Of course these aren't all of pushtunwali, and it's really welcome that the article provides other areas. But really: the contributors here should save themselves endless annoyance; create a seperate section "criticisms made of pushtunwali", and link to a seperate page. It will make all the difference. 213.200.213.157 (talk) 20:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

thank you, I will reply to feedback
Blood feuds are mentioned(under Nyaw Aw Badal and under my section on pashtunwali and gender. seclusion of women does merit a mention I will look into it.

POV Issues
The article seems to promote its subject throughout without really telling the reader much about Pashtunwali. Everyone values "righteousness" and "justice" and "bravery." Almost all of the content should be cut or rewritten. --Nogburt (talk) 22:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It explains what righteousness and justice mean in the Pashtun mentality, as for bravery it is more central in Pashtunwali than in other codes(part of the reason for the ‘graveyard of empires’ concept and winning wars against the British Empire in the 19th century and the Soviet Union in the 20th century)

It's been more than 8 years since issues with this article have been raised and biased content is still being added back in. If the "main principles" section cannot be written in an objective way, it should be deleted. Nogburt (talk) 17:46, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

POV pushing by Mar4d
User:Mar4d asserts that this Pashtunwali is widely practiced but this is considered unsourced POV. That's like saying that Taliban style rule is widely accepted by Pashtuns and that would be false. As far as I know it is only practiced in some areas and by some Pashtuns.--Fareed30 (talk) 12:49, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

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Confusing ending to Nyaw aw Badal (justice and revenge)
The paragraph about Nyaw aw Badal (justice and revenge) ends with "Normally blood feuds in this male-dominated society are settled in a number of ways." I would have expected that the ways be listed but perhaps that's off topic and the sentence could be deleted if it's not essential to understanding Nyaw aw Badal. --Marc Kupper|talk 07:51, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Monetary compensation and arranged marriages same the main ways from what I have read.

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Neutrality and Accuracy Revisited
Reading this I’m led to suspect there are some violations of NPOV and issues with accuracy. I am unqualified to make changes, but based on the page history and comments below (many of them old), I hope someone can take a look.

A lot of the language seems like it’s describing a university’s admission policy or a social justice activists goals (for example without regard for race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or economic stats). It does not seem like an ethnic code developed over 1,700 years. The result is that I get a sense the authors are saying “isn’t this just perfect!” Moreover, while I know little about it, news articles on Pashtun culture (specifically describing Pashtunwali’s role in Taliban ideology) have at least indirectly conflicted with some this article’s points.

I’m not suggesting we add a criticism section. I’m merely hoping a knowledgeable individual take a crack at digging through this article. Jgalt87 (talk) 14:35, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

I added a criticism section.

explanation
I reverted a questionable anon edit. It looked like editorializing. If you made it, could you explain it more fully, here? Please consider creating a wiki-ID. Geo Swan (talk) 17:35, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

The ethnic Afghans one or the Pashtunisation one?

Problems
A quick check shows that there are different views of the principles. Eg the article doesn' mention that protecting women includes them not being allowed to show their fact to a stranger.

Then there's the "main components" which are 11. That seems to be an arbitrary number, particularly since the main source, Banting, doesn't list 11.

And that takes me to Banting. She's a writer of children's books and fails as a source for this article. Her book was added here as a source but it doesn't actually back the text. This bit of the article in particular is a mess. Doug Weller talk 11:37, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Does the fact she writes children's books make her unreliable? it makes her work simple but surely the detail can be found elsewhere.

Lone Survivor
The 2013 film lone Survivor is based on a true story of a Navy SEAL being rescued by a Pashtun tribe member. Worth linking to and expanding on? Mikejburden (talk) 21:17, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pashtunwali


text:
HMAS Lae (P 93)

HMAS Lae (P 93) was an Attack-class patrol boat of the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). It was named for the city of Lae, capital of Morobe Province, Papua New Guinea. Completed in 1968, the vessel was one of five assigned to the RAN's Papua New Guinea (PNG) Division. The patrol boat was transferred to the Papua New Guinea Defence Force in 1974 as HMPNGS Lae. She remained in service until 1988.

Design and construction
The Attack class was ordered in 1964 to operate in Australian waters as patrol boats (based on lessons learned through using the Ton-class minesweepers on patrols of Borneo during the Indonesia-Malaysia Confrontation, and to replace a variety of old patrol, search-and-rescue, and general-purpose craft. Initially, fourteen were ordered for the RAN, five of which were intended for the Papua New Guinea Division of the RAN, although another six ships were ordered to bring the class to twenty vessels.

The patrol boats had a displacement of 100 tons at standard load and 146 tons at full load, were 107.6 ft in length overall, had a beam of 20 ft, and draughts of 6.4 ft at standard load, and 7.3 ft at full load. Propulsion machinery consisted of two 16-cylinder Paxman YJCM diesel engines, which supplied 3460 shp to the two propellers. The vessels could achieve a top speed of 24 kn, and had a range of 1200 nmi at 13 kn. The ship's company consisted of three officers and sixteen sailors. Main armament was a bow-mounted Bofors 40 mm gun, supplemented by two .50-calibre M2 Browning machine guns and various small arms. The ships were designed with as many commercial components as possible: the Attacks were to operate in remote regions of Australia and New Guinea, and a town's hardware store would be more accessible than home base in a mechanical emergency.

Lae was built by Walkers Limited of Maryborough, Queensland, launched on 5 October 1967, and commissioned on 3 April 1968.

Operational history
Primary roles of the new patrol boats were fisheries protection and sea training, but also undertook search and rescue, medical evacuation and monitoring of navigational aids roles. The ship's company was made up of both Australian and PNG servicemen. Prior to the arrival of the Attack-class patrol boats, surveillance of PNG waters was conducted by small coastal craft and occasional visits by larger RAN warships, but the PNG Division was now able to chase and apprehend vessels suspected of illegal fishing. The first arrest of a foreign fishing vessel by the new patrol boats was made by Lae in November 1968 when they responded to a radio report and surprised the Taiwanese Chin Hong Ming. The vessel was boarded and escorted to Medang.

In January 1970, Lae responded to rescue operations in the Whitsunday Islands when they were hit by Cyclone Ada. Over three days, the patrol boat battle large seas delivering medical supplies to islands and evacuating injured people, including tourists from Hayman Island at the height of the storm. The vessel's commander, Lieutenant John Scott, RAN, was awarded an MBE for leadership during the rescue efforts, while two other personnel, CPO Kenneth William Matters and RO J Sehi were awarded the BEM.

While on patrol in July 1970, Lae struck a shallow reef and was pulled off with the aid of sister ships Aitape and Samarai, fortunately suffering little damage.

Lae was one of the five Attack-class patrol boats of the RAN PNG Division transferred to the Papua New Guinea Defence Force's (PNGDF) Maritime Element (now Maritime Operations Element) on 14 November 1974 when the PNGDF took over maritime functions from the RAN. They formed the PNGDF Patrol Boat Squadron based at Manus. Lae was decommissioned in 1988.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: HMAS Lae (P 93)


text:
John Ferguson

John Ferguson may refer to:

Australia

 * John Ferguson (Australian politician) (1830–1906), Australian Senator and member of the Queensland Parliament
 * John Maxwell Ferguson (1841–1924), member of the Legislative Assembly of Western Australia
 * John Ferguson (New South Wales politician) (1903–1969), member of the New South Wales Legislative Council

Canada

 * John Ferguson (Upper Canada politician) (1756–1830), judge and politician in Upper Canada
 * John Ferguson (New Brunswick politician) (1813–1888), merchant and Canadian senator from New Brunswick
 * John Ferguson (Ontario politician) (1839–1896), physician and Canadian MP and senator from Ontario
 * John Ferguson (Canadian politician) (1840–1908), Scottish-born farmer, lumberman and political figure in Ontario, Canada

United Kingdom

 * John Ferguson (Scottish activist), Irish born, late 19th century Scottish Labour Party activist
 * John Ferguson (Conservative politician) (1870–1932), British Conservative MP
 * John Ferguson (Northern Ireland politician) (1911–?), UUP and Alliance Party politician

United States

 * John Ferguson (New York politician) (died 1832), Mayor of New York City
 * John P. Ferguson, member of the Delaware House of Representatives

Sports

 * John Ferguson Sr. (1938–2007), Canadian ice hockey player
 * John Ferguson Jr. (born 1967), former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs of the National Hockey League
 * John Ferguson (curler) (born 1958), Canadian curler
 * John Ferguson (footballer, born 1848) (1848–1929), Scottish international footballer
 * John Ferguson (footballer, born 1891) (1891–1916), Scottish footballer
 * John Ferguson (footballer, born 1904) (1904–1973), English footballer (Wolverhampton Wanderers, Manchester United)
 * John Ferguson (footballer, born 1931), Australian rules footballer for Melbourne and South Melbourne
 * John Ferguson (footballer, born 1949), Australian rules footballer for Richmond
 * John Ferguson (rugby league) (born 1954), Indigenous Australian rugby league footballer
 * John Ferguson (sailor) (born 1944), Australian sailor
 * John Ferguson (sportscaster) (1919–2005), American sportscaster

Others

 * John Ferguson (Ferguson bequest) (1787–1856), Scottish businessman and philanthropist, founder of the Ferguson bequest
 * John Ferguson (clergyman) (1852–1925), New Zealand born Australian Presbyterian minister
 * John Calvin Ferguson (1866–1945), Canadian-born American sinologist and educator
 * John Errol Ferguson (1948–2013), American serial killer and mass murderer
 * John Ferguson (organist) (born 1941), American organist, composer, and professor
 * Sir John Ferguson (police officer) (1891–1975), English chief constable
 * John Ferguson (musician) (born 1978), American composer and performer, and member of The Apples in Stereo
 * John Ferguson (priest) (died 1902), Anglican Dean of Moray, Ross and Caithness
 * John Howard Ferguson (1838–1915), judge in Louisiana
 * John Ferguson (born 1943), real name of gambling author and Blackjack Hall of Famer Stanford Wong
 * John H. Ferguson (1915–1970), American lawyer and U.S. ambassador
 * John H. Ferguson, defendant in the landmark American judicial case Plessy v. Ferguson
 * John Ferguson (chemist) (1838–1916), Scottish chemist and bibliographer
 * John Alexander Ferguson (1881–1969), New Zealand-born Australian lawyer, judge, book collector, and author
 * John Thomas Ferguson (born 1941), Canadian real estate developer and chancellor of the University of Alberta
 * John DeLancey Ferguson, American writer and academic
 * John Macpherson Ferguson, Royal Navy admiral
 * John Ferguson, a play by playwright St. John Greer Ervine

title: John Ferguson


text:
HMAS Madang

One ship and a shore establishment of the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) have been named HMAS Madang, after Madang, Papua New Guinea.

 * HMAS Madang (naval base), a base at Madang.
 * HMAS Madang (P 94), an Attack-class patrol boat launched in 1968 and transferred to Papua New Guinea in 1974

title: HMAS Madang


text:
State University of New York at Cortland

The State University of New York at Cortland (SUNY Cortland, C-State, or Cortland State) is a public university in Cortland, New York. It was founded in 1868 and is part of the State University of New York (SUNY) system.

History
The State University of New York Cortland was founded in 1868 as the Cortland Normal School. It included among its earliest students inventor and industrialist Elmer A. Sperry of Sperry Rand Corp.

The campus continually grew, and in 1941, by an act of legislature and the board of regents, the institution became a four-year college providing courses leading to a bachelor's degree and soon was widely acknowledged as Cortland State Teachers College. In 1948, Cortland was a founding member of the State University of New York. In 1961, thirteen years later, the college was officially renamed as the State University of New York College at Cortland.

On January 1, 2023, the State University of New York changed the name of the college from State University of New York College at Cortland to the State University of New York at Cortland.

Campus
Cortland is off of Interstate 81, between Syracuse and Binghamton. The college's main campus covers 191 acre, and includes 30 traditional and modern buildings. Fourteen of these structures are residence halls that provide housing for approximately 3,000 students. SUNY Cortland also operates its Outdoor Education Center at Raquette Lake in the Adirondacks, the Hoxie Gorge Nature Preserve outside Cortland, and the Brauer Education Center on the Helderberg Escarpment near Albany.

The U.S. Department of the Interior in 2004 designated Camp Pine Knot, now known as the Huntington Memorial Camp and part of its Outdoor Education center at Raquette Lake, as the first and only National Historic Landmark within the State University of New York (SUNY). Camp Pine Knot was the first Great Camp of the Adirondacks and the birthplace of what is now known as the Adirondack style of architecture. SUNY Cortland has 55,000 alumni who live in all 50 states and in more than 40 countries.

Organization and administration
Cortland is a comprehensive college within the State University of New York system.

Academics
Today, approximately 6,800 students are pursuing degrees within the college's three academic divisions—arts and sciences, education and professional studies. Twenty-eight academic departments with a faculty of more than 600 offer the SUNY Cortland student body 50 majors and 38 minors from which to choose, plus 33 graduate majors and four certificates of advanced study.

Student life
SUNY Cortland has over 100 student clubs.

In 2015, the school opened a $56 million Student Life Center (SLC). The SLC covers more than 150000 ft2 and includes a three-court gymnasium, a swimming pool, indoor running track, rock climbing wall, dining bistro, table tennis room, game room, combatives room, various exercise spaces, a golf simulator, and cardio and weight training equipment.

Athletics
The Cortland Red Dragons are the athletic teams for SUNY Cortland. The college competes in NCAA Division III in the State University of New York Athletic Conference for most sports. Football played in the New Jersey Athletic Conference from 2000 to 2014, and became an affiliate member of the Empire 8 in 2015. Wrestling competes in the Empire Collegiate Wrestling Conference, the women's ice hockey team competes in the ECAC West, women's gymnastics is a National Collegiate Gymnastics Association (NCGA) East member, and women's golf is an independent, as those sports are not offered by the SUNYAC.

SUNY Cortland has had the most regional successful men's and women's intercollegiate athletics program in New York over the past two decades. In 1995, the Sears Directors' Cup was established to gauge and recognize the most successful intercollegiate athletics programs in the nation. SUNY Cortland is one of only five colleges and universities in the U.S. to have finished every year among the Top 25 NCAA Division III programs. Cortland placed 12th out of approximately 440 schools during the 2015–16 competition that is now known as the Learfield Sports Directors' Cup. The competition is sponsored by USA Today, the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics, and Learfield Sports. The standings are based on schools' national finishes in different sports.

The Cortland Red Dragons annually play Ithaca College Bombers for the Cortaca Jug, which was added in 1959 to an already competitive rivalry. The match-up is one of the most prominent in Division III college football. It was called the "biggest little game in the nation" by Sports Illustrated in 1991. The Red Dragons had a seven-game winning streak as of November 2016, but lost 48–20 in 2017. They also play the Cortaca Mic game every Friday before the Cortaca Jug game. Which is played between the Ithaca (WICB) and Cortland (WSUC) school radio stations. Cortland has never lost this game since it has been played.

Cortland also plays rival SUNY school Oswego each year for the "Dragon Sword" in Women's Field Hockey. The sword was donated by Oswego alumni Kimberlee (Bennett) and Michael Champitto and began play annually in 1999. As of 2021 Cortland has never failed to capture the sword at this event.

Cortland snapped Salisbury University's 69-game win streak to capture the 2006 NCAA Men's Lacrosse Div. III National Championship. The team reached the 2007 and 2008 national championship in rematch games against Salisbury University. The lacrosse team cemented its spot as a premier team with its second Division III national championship in 2009, defeating Gettysburg in the finals.

In 2006 as part of its Silver Anniversary of sponsoring women's sports, the NCAA named the SUNY Cortland women's cross country program as its top cross country program of the past 25 years. The Cortland women captured seven NCAA Division III national championships in a nine-year span between 1989 and 1997 (1989, 1991–95, 1997). In addition, the Cortland men's cross country team won the 2008 NCAA Div. III championship.

In all, Cortland teams have won 25 national titles, including 18 NCAA crowns. Along with the titles mentioned above, the field hockey team won NCAA Div. III titles in 1993, 1994 and 2001, the women's outdoor track and field team won an NCAA Div. III title in 1985 and the women's indoor track and field team was the 1991 NCAA Div. III champion. The men's lacrosse squad won the NCAA Div. II title in 1975 and the USILA College Division championship in 1973. The women's soccer won the 1992 NCAA Div. III tournament and captured the first-ever U.S. National Women's Soccer Championship in 1980, defeating UCLA in the finals. The men's gymnastics team won USGF Div. II-III titles in 1986, 1987, 1989 and 1990. The baseball and Women's Lacrosse teams each won their first ever Div. III titles in 2015. The women's lacrosse team won 18 SUNYAC titles between 1997 and 2015.

Cortland previously hosted the summer training camp of the NFL's New York Jets from 2009 to 2014, except for 2011 due to the NFL lockout.

International Exchange Program
SUNY Cortland has 18 partner universities across the world such as the German Sport University Cologne and the Griffith University in Australia.

Faculty

 * Thomas Blanchard Stowell, Chair of Natural Sciences (1869–1889)
 * Robert S. Newman, anthropology (1973)
 * Robert Spitzer, political science (1979–present)


text:
John Neilson (Lower Canada politician)

John Neilson (July 17, 1776 – February 1, 1848) was a journalist, publisher and politician in Lower Canada (now Quebec). Born in Scotland, he emigrated to Lower Canada in 1791 at age 15, to work in his older brother's publishing company in Quebec City. On his brother's death a few years later, he inherited the business. Neilson became one of the leading publishers and booksellers in Lower Canada and in Upper Canada (now Ontario), selling books in both French and English. He was the editor of the newspaper La Gazette de Québec / The Quebec Gazette, published in French and in English.

Once well-established financially, Neilson entered politics. Elected to the Legislative Assembly of Lower Canada as a supporter of the Parti canadien, he became a strong opponent to the provincial government under the governors appointed by the British government. He argued for greater control of the provincial government by the elected Legislative Assembly of Lower Canada. In 1823, he and Louis-Joseph Papineau travelled to London to argue against a proposal to merge Lower Canada with Upper Canada. In 1828, he was part of another delegation to London, to make submissions criticizing the financial controls of the governors. Although an ally of some of the leading French-Canadian politicians, such as Papineau, he gradually split with them as they became increasingly more radical during the 1830s. He opposed the Lower Canada Rebellion which broke out in 1837.

The result of the rebellion was that the two provinces were merged into a single province, the Province of Canada. In 1841, Neilson was elected to the Legislative Assembly of the new Parliament of the Province of Canada, where he opposed the union. He was defeated in the general election of 1844, but then was named by the governor to the Legislative Council, the appointed upper house of the Parliament. He held that position for the rest of his life.

Family and early life
Neilson was born in Dornal in the parish of Balmaghie, Scotland, in 1776, son of William Neilson and Isabel Brown. In 1791, he emigrated to Quebec City, Lower Canada, to work for his older brother, Samuel Neilson, who was operating the newspaper and publishing company of their deceased maternal uncle, William Brown. John Neilson formally inherited the business in 1793 when his brother Samuel died. Because he himself was underage, Neilson was under the tutelage of a Presbyterian minister, Alexander Spark, until reaching the age of majority and being able to acquire full control of the business. In one burst of youthful exuberance, he went to New York without permission, but duly apologised to Spark on his return.

In 1797, he married Marie-Ursule Hubert, a niece of Jean-François Hubert, Bishop of Quebec. The marriage ceremony was conducted by an Anglican priest in the presence of a Roman Catholic priest. The couple signed a notarial marriage contract, governed by the coutume de Paris, the French law in force in Lower Canada. He explained in a letter to his mother that he wished to show that he had permanently established himself in Lower Canada, and provide an example that Canadians and British immigrants could live together. The couple had ten children, with their sons raised Presbyterians, and their daughters raised Catholic.

Business career: publishing, bookselling, landholdings

Neilson steadily developed the printing and book-selling business until he was the leading printer and bookseller in Lower Canada, with major links to Upper Canada. He published the Quebec Gazette/La Gazette de Québec in English and French. It was the largest circulation newspaper in the two Canadas, and expanded when he imported special types and presses for his business. He showed strong abilities in business, particularly in keeping detailed track of his finances and accounting. He would go to court if necessary to ensure payments of his accounts, but preferred to rely on personal relations and private arbitrations in financial disputes. According to his rival James Brown of Montreal, Neilson's publishing house was "the largest consumer of paper in this country".

A large part of his business was publishing government proclamations, forms, and records. He also imported and published books of a general nature, theological texts, hymnals, school books, and books on political philosophy and history, and texts on law and medicine. He offered texts in both English and French, from the United Kingdom, the United States, and, after the end of the Napoleonic Wars, from France. He was a well-read man, and fluent in both English and French. He developed a large clientele in the professional classes, from both French Canadians and British Canadians.

As a natural outgrowth of his business, Neilson was also interested in literary matters in the province, being a member of various literary societies, and the owner of the Théâtre Canadien. He was a trustee for the Royal Institute for the Advancement of Learning, and took an interest in developing schools in the province, particularly in the rural areas. On one trip to London, he spoke to the Foreign Schools Society about the difficulties that the Legislative Assembly was having in developing a school system, which he envisaged would be done through the churches.

As his publishing business prospered, Neilson expanded into land-holdings, with interests in agriculture and encouraging immigration. Around 1816, Neilson and two lawyers from Quebec, Andrew Stuart and Louis Moquin, acquired land north of Quebec in the valley of the Jacques-Cartier River. They opened the area, known as Valcartier, for settlement by Scots and Irish immigrants, as well as British veterans of the War of 1812. By 1832 Neilson had close to fifty properties in the areas of Valcartier and Cap-Rouge, where he established a permanent residence for himself. He gradually acquired land in Upper Canada, eventually worth £700.

Neilson was also interested in banking, as a shareholder and client of the Bank of Quebec. He engaged in money-lending, offering loans on generally easy terms, but with fixed repayment schedules.

Neilson was a Justice of the Peace, and an officer in the local militia.

Lower Canada
Neilson has been termed a moderate reformer or moderate liberal. Unlike some of the other Lower Canada newspapers, the Quebec Gazette did not take radical positions. He had a strong admiration for the British constitution, and also sympathies for the political concerns of French Canadians, such as increased popular control over the provincial government and the abolition of the seigneurial system. He was also strongly committed to the existing constitutional structure of Lower Canada, set out in the Constitutional Act, 1791. He was gradually attracted to politics, at first supporting Pierre-Stanislas Bédard, an early leader of the Parti canadien, then James Stuart, and then moving towards Louis-Joseph Papineau. Bédard considered Neilson to be one of his most important supporters. Neilson was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Lower Canada in a by-election in 1818, representing Quebec County, the rural areas surrounding Quebec City. He was re-elected in four subsequent elections.

As a member of the British merchant class, Neilson brought some support from British Canadians to the Parti canadien, particularly by his reliance on British constitutional principles and commitment to the monarchy. At the same time, through his personal qualities of patience and perseverance, he helped support Papineau, who admitted that he was not strong in those qualities.

In 1823, the British government began to consider reunifying Lower Canada with Upper Canada. Neilson accompanied Papineau to London to lobby against the union project in the name of the majority of the MPs in the Legislative Assembly. The British government did not proceed with the proposal at that time.

In 1828, he was again part of a delegation sent to London, this time with Austin Cuvillier and Denis-Benjamin Viger, to present the party's demands for reform of the provincial government, particularly that the Assembly needed to have greater control over the provincial finances. They presented a petition with 80,000 signatures supporting the demand for greater local control. The British government offered significant concessions on the points raised by the Lower Canada delegation, leading to Papineau writing a letter of thanks to Neilson on his return.

During Neilson's time in the Assembly, he was a strong advocate for the censitaires, the tenant farmers who held their land under the seigneurial system. The possible abolition of the seigneurial system was one of the major issues of the day, with competing interests of the feudal seigneurs and the tenant censitaires. He took the position that if the seigneurial system were abolished, the censitaires should receive title to their plots at no cost. He was also concerned that the seigneurial system was itself making it difficult for farmers to obtain arable land, with conflicts between the censitaires and the seigneurs over land use.

By 1830, Neilson began to distance himself from the Parti canadien, now referred to as the Parti patriote, which Neilson considered to be too radical and republican. He had always appealed for moderation, toleration, respect for ethnic and religious differences, and working within the constitutional framework. He began to see Papineau as a radical who detested the constitution and favoured anticlericalism and nationalism. He feared the economic consequences of the increasing radicalism of the Patriotes. In 1833, he wrote an editorial in the Quebec Gazette stating that it was now the radicals in the Assembly who were betraying the constitution. Papineau responded with public insults.

In 1834, Neilson opposed the Ninety-Two Resolutions introduced by Papineau in the Assembly, a rewrite of the 1828 demands for reform with a radical, republican tone. In his private journal, he summarised his view of the resolutions: eleven were true, six were mixed with falsehood, sixteen were false, seventeen doubtful, twelve ridiculous, seven repetitious, fourteen very abusive, four false and seditious, and five good or indifferent. Neilson's main point of disagreement was Papineau's insistence on an elected Legislative Council, which Neilson considered to be contrary to the spirit of the 1791 constitution. In the debates on the Resolutions, Neilson was one of the leading opponents, and moved three amendments, which were defeated. For his rejection of the Resolutions and break with Papineau, he was called a "chouayen", or "turncoat".

In the general election of 1834, Neilson was badly defeated in his seat in Quebec County. Papineau had established a strong party apparatus for the Patriotes and specifically targeted Neilson, his former colleague. Worried by the trend in politics, Neilson then helped set up "constitutional associations" in the province, to argue in favour of solutions through constitutional means, and potentially to be the base for a new political party. In 1835, he again travelled to London, this time with William Walker, as delegates from the constitutional associations of Quebec and Montreal. They lobbied members of the British government for changes to the provincial government and constitution, asking them to carry through with the British parliamentary committee's recommendations in 1828. Neilson sought, unsuccessfully, to avert the possibility of rebellion in Lower Canada.

In August 1837, the governor appointed him to the Executive Council of Lower Canada and to the Legislative Council. He refused the appointment to the Executive Council, but accepted the appointment to the Legislative Council. Later that year, the Lower Canada Rebellion broke out. The British government suspended the constitution of Lower Canada and created a Special Council to govern the province, chaired by the governor. Neilson was a member of the Special Council from April to June 1838, and again from November 1838 until the creation of the Province of Canada in February 1841.

Province of Canada

Following the rebellion in Lower Canada, and the similar Upper Canada rebellion the same year, the British government decided to merge the two provinces into a single province, as recommended by Lord Durham in the Durham Report. The Union Act, 1840, passed by the British Parliament, abolished the two provinces and their separate parliaments. The act created the Province of Canada with a single Parliament for the entire province, composed of an elected Legislative Assembly and an appointed Legislative Council. The Governor General retained a strong position in the government.

Neilson opposed the Union after its enactment. In 1841, he stood for election to the Legislative Assembly of the Parliament of the Province of Canada, campaigning against the union. He was elected by acclamation in his old riding of Quebec County. He was also one of the leading organisers of candidates opposed to the union in the Quebec region, under the general name of the Comité canadien de Québec. He garnered support from the Roman Catholic hierarchy, which saw the union as an attack on the Catholic nation canadienne. He also won support from Papineau, Denis-Benjamin Viger, and the more radical element they represented, although Papineau was in exile in France. Neilson initially aligned with the younger Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine, who also opposed the union, but unlike Lafontaine, he considered responsible government a trick. Neilson's efforts paid off: out of the forty-two seats in Canada East, twenty or so were won by French Canadians opposed to the union.

When the new parliament convened in Kingston, Canada West, Neilson was one of the leaders of the French-Canadian group in opposition to the union. Neilson brought a motion condemning the union. After a lengthy debate, it was defeated, 50 to 25, the first major vote in the session. Neilson was one of nineteen members from Canada East who voted against the union, along with six Ultra-Reformers from Canada West. During the rest of the first session, he was a consistent opponent of Governor General Lord Sydenham, voting with the French-Canadian group in a loose alliance with the Canada West Reformers.

However, in 1843, there was a notable break in his voting pattern. In that session, there was a ministerial crisis between the primarily Reform ministry and Governor General Metcalfe, leading to the resignation of most of the ministry. In a vote in the Assembly, Neilson voted in support of the Governor General, and against the former ministry. He understood the system of working with a governor, and was suspicious of the new concept of responsible government.

Neilson stood for re-election in the general election of 1844, but was defeated by a more reform-minded candidate, Pierre-Joseph-Olivier Chauveau, representing Lafontaine's new Reform group. Shortly afterwards, the Governor General appointed Neilson to the Legislative Council, the upper house of the Parliament. He held that position for the remaining four years of his life.

Death and legacy
Neilson died in Cap-Rouge in 1848 and was buried in the Presbyterian church cemetery in Valcartier. Twenty years after his death, his estate was assessed as more than £30,000 in assets, including real estate holdings, and only £25 in liabilities.

In 1976, Neilson was designated a National Historic Person by the federal government's heritage registry.

Neilson is one of the major characters in a trilogy of historical novels, A Chronicle of Lower Canada, which relates the events leading up to the Lower Canada Rebellion in 1837.

There is a street named after him in Saint-Gabriel-de-Valcartier, Quebec.

Published works
List of works published by Neilson:

 * Aux electeurs du comté de Quebec/To the Electors of the County of Quebec, 1820
 * Letter from L.J. Papineau and J. Neilson, Esqs., Addressed to His Majesty's Under Secretary of State on the Subject of the Proposed Union of the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada, May 10, 1823 (London: William Clowes, Northumberland-court, 1823).
 * Report of the Special Committee of the House of Assembly of Lower-Canada, on the Petitions Against the Road Laws and the Office of Grand-Voyer, 1830
 * Rapport du Comité spécial de la Chambre d'assemblée sur le Département du bureau de la poste dans la province du Bas-Canada, 1831
 * Report of the Commissioners Appointed under the Lower Canada Act, 4th William IV. cap. 10, to Visit the United States' Penitentiaries, 1835
 * Addresse aux Électeurs de Toute la Province, in Quebec Gazette, October 14, 1840.
 * First report. The Select Committee Appointed to Investigate and Report on the Outrages Alleged to Have Been Committed at the General Election in the Counties of Terrebonne, Montreal, Vaudreuil, Beauharnois, Chambly and Rouville (Legislative Assembly of the Province of Canada, Kingston, 1843).

title: John Neilson (Lower Canada politician)


text:
List of South African television series

The List of South African television series lists TV series that were created and/or shown in South Africa since 1975. It includes both South African originals and foreign imports that were dubbed into local languages.

title: List of South African television series


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Orlando Bosch

Orlando Bosch Ávila (18 August 1926 – 27 April 2011) was a Cuban exile militant, who headed the Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU), described by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation as a terrorist organization. Born in Cuba, Bosch attended medical school at the University of Havana, where he befriended Fidel Castro. He worked as a doctor in Santa Clara Province in the 1950s, but moved to Miami in 1960 after he stopped supporting the Cuban Revolution.

Between 1961 and 1968 Bosch was arrested several times in the United States for attacks directed at the Cuban government, and briefly collaborated with the Central Intelligence Agency. He was jailed in Florida in 1968 for a bazooka attack on a Polish freighter, but violated parole and fled to Venezuela in 1974 at the invitation of fellow exile militant Luis Posada Carriles. Arrested for a bombing, he was released in exchange for surrendering his munitions, and moved to Chile. The US government considered him to have been involved in multiple bombings while there. In 1976 he was arrested for an assassination attempt in Costa Rica; the US declined an extradition offer, and he was sent to the Dominican Republic.

Bosch founded CORU in 1976 along with Posada and other Cuban exiles. The group was responsible for a number of attacks in 1976, including the assassination of Orlando Letelier in Washington, D.C. as a part of Operation Condor. CORU is also considered to be responsible for the bombing of Cubana Flight 455, a Cuban civilian airliner, on 6 October 1976 in which all 73 people on board were killed. Bosch, Posada, and two others were arrested and tried for the bombing in Venezuela. Posada escaped from prison, while Bosch was acquitted by a Venezuelan military court in 1986. The other two men, both employees of Posada, were sentenced to twenty years in prison.

Upon his return to the U.S. in 1988, Bosch was arrested for parole violations. The Justice Department, which considered him a terrorist, sought to deport him. He was allowed to stay, and later granted residency, by US President George H. W. Bush after a widespread lobbying campaign that included Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and the president's son Jeb Bush. In his later years Bosch raised money to support resistance to the Cuban government, and died in Miami aged 84. He remains a controversial figure, with former US Attorney General Dick Thornburgh describing him as an "unreformed terrorist".

Personal life
Orlando Bosch Ávila was born on 18 August 1926 in the village of Potrerillo, 240 km east of Havana. His mother was a school teacher, and his father owned a restaurant. In 1946 Bosch enrolled in the University of Havana medical school, where he befriended the future Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Bosch was president of the medical school student body while Castro was head of the law school student body. Castro was only five days younger than Bosch. Bosch would later state that the two were close friends who frequently smoked cigars together. While they were students, both men worked against the government of Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista. According to a classmate of his, Bosch's fiery temperament earned him the nickname "Piro", meaning pyromaniac.

After graduating, Bosch moved to Toledo, Ohio for a paediatric internship, beginning in 1952. He then returned to Cuba to work as a doctor in Santa Clara Province. His activities included vaccinating children against polio. He also covertly organized for Castro's guerilla war against the Batista government. In 1960, however, less than one-and-a-half years after Castro overthrew Batista, Bosch stopped supporting the Cuban Revolution, and moved to Miami with his wife Myriam, a fellow medical school graduate. They took their four children with them, and soon had another child. The couple divorced ten years later, when Bosch was in prison. Bosch began working for a hospital in Coral Gables, Florida, where he held the position of assistant director.

While in Chile in the early 1970s, Bosch met Adriana Delgado, whom he married in February 1975. Adriana, his second wife, was 20 years younger than him. In 1976, the couple had a daughter. Bosch would return to the United States in 1988, despite being wanted for parole violations, saying "I have a loving wife who resides in the United States and five American children with whom I want to share the last years of my life." He died in 2011 aged 84 in a hospital in the suburbs of Miami.

Career
Bosch had left Cuba in July 1960 after helping to organize a failed anti-Castro rebellion in the Escambray Mountains, and continued participating in anti-Castro activities after moving to Miami. Bosch helped organize the Movimiento Insurreccional de Recuperacion Revolucionaria (Insurrectional Movement of Revolutionary Recovery, MIRR), which conducted attacks on factories and sugar mills in Cuba, and claimed to be responsible for 11 bombing attacks against government property. From January to November 1962, and again in November 1963, Bosch was in contact with the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). On the first occasion, Bosch was intended to help plan infiltration efforts into Cuba, and obtained supplies and safe houses for the team; on the second, Bosch sought funding for airstrikes against Cuba, which the CIA refused. A CIA memorandum from 1976 described Bosch as "General Coordinator" of the MIRR at the time of his contact with the CIA.

Arrests in Florida and Venezuela
Bosch was soon fired from his job for keeping explosives on the hospital property, and was arrested several times for his involvement in a series of plots. The first of these was in 1964, when he was caught towing a radio-operated torpedo through rush-hour traffic. The next year, Bosch and five others were charged with smuggling bombs out of the US, after a raid by police on a house close to Orlando. In April 1966 a police roadblock found Bosch transporting bombs made with dynamite; he told them he was taking them to a "secret base where there was a boat we could use to bomb Castro." In December of the same year, he was charged with extortion. According to a report by the US Department of Justice, Bosch was involved with 30 incidents of terrorism between 1960 and 1968.

Bosch was not convicted for his activities until 1968, when he launched an attack on a Polish freighter. Standing on a bridge over Biscayne Bay, he fired a shell at the ship from a 57 mm homemade bazooka. Bosch was also charged with sending telegrams to the governments of Britain and Mexico, threatening to destroy ships from those countries. During his defense, Bosch stated that he believed the ship was headed to Cuba. Bosch was sentenced to ten years in prison; delivering the judgement, the judge stated that Bosch had "long professed the use of violence to achieve his aims in flagrant disregard of the laws of the United States". In the trial, the government described Bosch as a member of the terrorist organization Cuban Power, that claimed responsibility for "dozens of bombings and assassination attempts". Eight others, all described as members of the same group, were also convicted. Among those testifying against Bosch was FBI informant Ricardo Morales.

Bosch served four years of his sentence before being released on parole in 1972. Claude Kirk, then the Governor of Florida, was among those who advocated for Bosch to receive early parole. In June 1974 he told The Miami News that he was the head of a group called Accion Cubana, and that the organization was responsible for a series of bomb attacks on Cuban consulates in Latin America since August 1973. On 12 April 1974, he violated parole and fled to Venezuela, shortly after he was served a subpoena in a case involving a murder. He had been invited to Venezuela by Luis Posada Carriles, another Cuban exile militant who was then serving as the head of DISIP, the Venezuelan intelligence service. The same year, Bosch detonated bombs at a cultural center and at the Panamanian embassy in Caracas, in both cases just before representatives of the Cuban government were supposed to be there. The date of the attack, 12 October, was Cuba's independence day. He was released in exchange for surrendering his arsenal, and was seen soon after in Curaçao, where he said to a newsman, also a Cuban exile: "We will invade the Cuban embassies and will murder the Cuban diplomats and will hijack the Cuban planes until Castro releases some of the political prisoners and begins to deal with us."

Bosch moved to the Chilean city of Santiago, where the government of Augusto Pinochet provided a safe haven to Bosch and other anti-communists. According to a memo sent to the US by the Chilean government, he arrived on 3 December 1974, going by the alias Pedro Pena. He stayed in a military safe house, and "lived quietly as an artist". While the Cuban government stated that Bosch did not conduct anti-Castro activities while in Chile, the US government found him responsible for postal bombings of Cuban embassies in Lima, Madrid, Ottawa, and Buenos Aires. The US also accused Bosch of involvement in the August 1975 attempted assassination of Emilio Aragones, the Cuban ambassador to Argentina, and the September 1976 bombing of the Mexican Embassy in Guatemala City. In February 1976, he was arrested by the police in Costa Rica, where he was traveling under a fake Chilean passport using the alias Hector Avanzo. After his arrest, the US media reported that he had been involved in a plot to kill Henry Kissinger, then Secretary of State. The arrest resulted from Bosch's former and future colleague Posada passing information about Bosch's intentions to the CIA. When questioned, Bosch stated that his target was Andrés Pascal Allende, nephew of previous Chilean President Salvador Allende. The Costa Rican authorities offered to extradite him to the US, but the US declined.

CORU and Flight 455
Bosch was deported to the Dominican Republic, where he founded the Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU), along with Posada, Gaspar Jiménez, and other Cuban exiles. The group, led by Bosch, first met in the Dominican Republic town of Bonao in June 1976, and laid plans for more than 50 bombings over the next year. The US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) described CORU as "an anti-Castro terrorist umbrella organization." CORU was responsible for a number of attacks in 1976. These included a machine gun attack on the Cuban embassy in Bogotá, the assassination of a Cuban official in Mérida, the kidnapping of two Cuban embassy employees in Buenos Aires, the bombing of a Cubana airlines office in Panama City, the bombing of the Guyanese embassy in Port of Spain, and the assassination of former Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier, a staunch critic of the Pinochet government, in Washington, D.C. Subsequently, declassified documents showed that Letelier's assassination, part of a series that occurred during Operation Condor, was directly ordered by Pinochet. Michael Townley, an agent of Dirección de Inteligencia Nacional, the Chilean secret Police, was also involved in the killing.

Bosch was invited to return to Venezuela by Orlando García, the head of security for Venezuelan President Carlos Andrés Pérez. He returned on 23 September 1976, again traveling on a fraudulent passport. Bosch was given a hotel suite for his use, a DISIP identity card using the alias "Carlos Sucre", and a Venezuelan passport. He was told that he could continue his activities, but that his targets needed to be outside Venezuela. Among those who had apartments in the same hotel were Garcia, and Morales, who had testified against Bosch in Florida, and who was now Garcia's deputy. Soon after he arrived in Venezuela, a fundraiser was held in Caracas to support his activities. According to a CIA memorandum, Bosch offered to refrain from planning attacks in the US during Andrés Pérez's forthcoming visit to the United Nations in November, if the Venezuelan government made "a substantial cash contribution to [Bosch's] organization" in return. Bosch was also reported to have stated, "Now that our organization has come out of the Letelier job looking good, we are going to try something else." After Letelier's assassination, a map of the route Letelier took to work was discovered in Bosch's office.

Several days later, Posada was reported to have stated that "we are going to hit a Cuban airplane" and "Orlando has the details." Flight 455 was a Cubana de Aviación flight departing from Trinidad to Cuba, via Barbados. On 6 October 1976, two time bombs variously described as dynamite or C-4 planted on the Douglas DC-8 aircraft exploded, killing all 73 people on board, including all 25 members of the 1975 Cuban national fencing team. Investigators from Cuba, Venezuela and the United States traced the planting of the bombs to two Venezuelan passengers, Freddy Lugo and Hernán Ricardo Lozano, who had taken the first leg of the flight from Trinidad to Barbados. Both men were employed by Posada at a private detective agency that he ran in Caracas. Ricardo had called both Posada's office, and Bosch, soon after the explosions on the plane. CORU released a statement soon after the bombing claiming responsibility for it, and describing the explosion as having killed "57 Cuban communists" (57 of the passengers had been Cuban). Several CIA memoranda from the period implicated Bosch and Posada in the attack. According to an FBI informant, Bosch received a phone call on 6 October, in which he was told "A bus with 73 dogs went off a cliff and all got killed."

A week later, Posada and Bosch were arrested on charges of masterminding the attack, and were jailed in Venezuela; Bosch's arrest occurred on 8 October 1976. Journalist Ann Louise Bardach described the arrests as becoming "a cause célèbre" for politicians in Miami, who lobbied the US government to press for Bosch and Posada's release. Miami, Hialeah, and Sweetwater announced an official "Orlando Bosch Day", and Miami Mayor Maurice Ferré met Bosch while he was imprisoned. Some years later, Otto Reich, a fellow Cuban exile and US Ambassador to Venezuela from 1986 to 1989, also lobbied the US government to push for Bosch's release. Reich argued both that Bosch was innocent, and that his safety was threatened. Bosch was also visited by the House Select Committee on Assassinations, investigating an allegation, which Bosch denied, that he had been in a room with Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963. While Bosch was in prison in 1977, Miami area law enforcement officials linked Bosch to several dynamite bombings, including a blast in the offices of Mackey Airlines, after the airline announced plans to resume flights to Cuba.

The Cubana Flight case was initially placed before a civilian judge, who ruled that the court had no jurisdiction. In 1980, Bosch and the others were tried and acquitted by a military court of involvement in the bombing. Bosch and Ricardo were convicted of using false identity papers, and sentenced to four and a half months in prison, which were set against the time they had already been held. The court stated that although the flight had been brought down by a bomb, that there was insufficient evidence to prove the defendants were responsible. Bosch and the others remained imprisoned while the verdict was appealed. In 1983, another military court moved the case back to the civilian judicial system, and the trial was delayed further by Bosch and two others refusing to appear in court. In 1985, during this delay, Posada escaped from prison after bribing a guard using funds raised by the Cuban American National Foundation. Bosch's case was eventually resolved in 1986, when he was acquitted: Ricardo and Lugo were each sentenced to 20 years in prison. In total, Bosch was in prison for eleven years. He spent his time in prison writing and painting, and on multiple occasions went on hunger strikes to protest his situation.

Later career
Reich asked for permission to grant Bosch a visa to the US on multiple occasions, the last of them in December 1987; his requests were denied. Bosch flew to Miami on 16 February 1988, despite not possessing a visa. On arrival, he was arrested for violating parole in the 1968 Polish freighter case, and also for entering the country illegally. A large campaign began demanding Bosch's release, among the leaders of which was Jorge Mas Canosa, head of the Cuban American National Foundation. Mas Canosa testified before a parole board, stating that Bosch and he had been friends for more than two decades, and that he was confident Bosch would not resume violent activities. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen advocated for Bosch's release during her successful 1988 congressional campaign, calling Bosch a patriot and a hero. Some of Bosch's militant supporters threatened to bomb the Miami office of the Immigration and Naturalization Services if Bosch was not released, though the threats were not carried out.

Despite this campaign, Bosch's application for asylum was rejected by the Justice Department in January 1989. In making his decision, Joe Whitley, at the time the Associate US Attorney General, stated that Bosch had been "resolute and unwavering in his advocacy of terrorist violence", and that he had "demonstrated a willingness to cause indiscriminate injury and death." Agents of the local FBI, who investigated Bosch, stated that Bosch was considered "Miami's number one terrorist" by the FBI and other law enforcement groups. The Justice Department sought to deport him; 31 countries were asked to allow Bosch entry, but they all refused. Cuba expressed a willingness to take him, but his lawyers declined. After lobbying by Jeb Bush, then a campaign manager for Ros-Lehtinen, however, US President George H. W. Bush overruled the recommendation of the Justice Department, and ordered Bosch's release. He was allowed to return to his home in Miami, where he was required to have his phone tapped, his whereabouts monitored, to keep a visitors' log, and to not associate with militants. Though he agreed to these conditions, he did not keep a log, and stated his intention to associate with whomever he please. Two years later, he was granted US residency by the Bush administration.

After his release Bosch began working for Alberto Hernández, who succeeded Mas Canosa as chairman of the Cuban American National Foundation, earning $1,500 a month. In 1997 he was linked to the 1997 Cuba hotel bombings, in which one tourist was killed; he denied involvement, but stated that if he had, he would "still be denying it, since that's illegal in this country". He resumed painting, and used proceeds from the sales of his works to fund resistance to the Cuban government. He also formed an organization, named "Protagonist Party of the People", to raise money to buy weapons for the anti-Castro movement, violating the terms of his release in doing so. He claimed to have raised $150,000 by 1997.

Legacy
In his later years, Bosch remained a controversial figure. He had considerable support among Cuban exiles in the US, and his funeral saw public demonstrations of mourning. In his 2010 memoirs, Bosch denied having planned the bombing, stating that Castro had "accused me, without evidence, of being the intellectual author of the sabotage of Flight 455 and many other acts with which I had nothing to do." However, he continued to justify the bombing, saying that it was a "legitimate act of war", and that everyone on board deserved to die, because they "were all Communists." The Cuban diplomat and historian Jesús Arboleya and the American journalist John Dinges state that Bosch was responsible for the bombing. Dick Thornburgh, US Attorney General under Bush in 1988, referred to Bosch as an "unreformed terrorist", while the FBI considered CORU, which Bosch led, a terrorist organization. US diplomat Wayne Smith, an expert on Cuban affairs, also called Bosch a terrorist, and stated that he "did a disservice to the cause of democracy and freedom". Upon Bosch's release, an editorial in the New York Times accused the Bush administration of hypocrisy, stating that Bush was "squandering American credibility on issues of terrorism", and that he had protected "one of the hemisphere's most notorious terrorists." Reich's advocacy for Bosch created controversy when Reich was nominated to be Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs by the administration of George W. Bush in the early 2000s, and the Bush family's role in Bosch's release became an embarrassment for it in later years.

title: Orlando Bosch


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Talk:NonStop SQL

Jim Gray, who worked on NonStop SQL and who came to Tandem from IBM's System R project, told me:

"There was no direct connection between NonStop SQL and Ingres. Enform (a report writer that preceeded NonStop SQL) was used some of the Ingres syntax. Jerry Held was busy with Rainbow [a different project within Tandem] (as was Carol Youseffi). Neither worked on NonStop SQL at the start. When Rainbow was canceled, I think Carol joined the SQL optimizer group."

Perhaps you were influenced by the (incorrect) statement in http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/~brewer/cs262/SystemR.html ?

Paul McJones http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/

Current Versions
"The latest version of the product is SQL/MX 3.0 which was released in February 2011." This statement is no longer accurate - HP has released: - 3.1 in Aug 2011 - 3.2 in Aug 2012 - 3.2.1 in Feb 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgdupont (talk • contribs) 20:36, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

"Nonstop sql" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Nonstop sql and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 2 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Closeapple (talk) 03:08, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:NonStop SQL