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Chinook wind

Chinook winds, or simply Chinooks, are two types of prevailing warm, generally westerly winds in western North America: Coastal Chinooks and interior Chinooks. The coastal Chinooks are persistent seasonal, wet, southwesterly winds blowing in from the ocean. The interior Chinooks are occasional warm, dry föhn winds blowing down the eastern sides of interior mountain ranges. The coastal Chinooks were the original term, used along the northwest coast, and the term in the interior of North America is later and derives from the coastal term.
 * Along the Pacific Northwest coast, where the name is pronounced ('chin'+'uk'), the name refers to wet, warm winds off the ocean from the southwest; this is the original use of the term. The coastal Chinook winds deliver tremendous amounts of moisture both as rain along the coast and snow in the coastal mountains, that sustain the characteristic temperate rainforests and climate of the Pacific Northwest.
 * In North American western interior, the same name is used for föhn winds, generally, where the Canadian Prairies and Great Plains lie immediately east of various interior mountain ranges. There the name is pronounced ('shin'+'uk'). The same warm, wet coastal winds can also become the warm föhn winds on the eastern sides of mountain ranges, after having lost their moisture on the western sides; however, due to expanded use of the term in the interior for any föhn wind, interior Chinooks are not necessarily originally coastal Chinooks.

In the interior of North America, the Blackfoot people call these winds the "snow eater"; however, the more commonly used term "Chinook" originates from the name of the eponymous Chinook people, who lived near the ocean, along the lower Columbia River, where the term was first derived. The reference to "a Chinook" wind or weather system originally meant, to euro-American settlers along the Pacific Northwest coast, a warming wind from the ocean blowing into the interior regions of the Pacific Northwest of the North America.

A strong föhn wind can make snow 1 ft deep almost vanish in one day. The snow partly sublimates and partly melts and evaporates in the dry wind. Chinook winds have been observed to raise winter temperature, often from below -20 °C to as high as 10 - 20 C for a few hours or days, then temperatures plummet to their base levels.

In the Pacific Northwest
"Chinook" is used for coastal Chinook winds in British Columbia, and is the original use of the term, being rooted in the lore of coastal natives and immigrants, and brought to Alberta by French-speaking fur-traders. Such winds are extremely wet and warm and arrive off the western coast of North America from the southwest. These same winds have more recently been called the pineapple express, since they are of tropical origin, roughly from the area of the Pacific near Hawaii.

The air associated with a coastal Chinook is stable; this minimizes wind gusts and often keeps winds light in sheltered areas. In exposed areas, fresh gales are frequent during a Chinook, but strong gale- or storm-force winds are uncommon; most of the region's stormy winds come when a fast "westerly" jet stream lets air masses from temperate and subarctic latitudes clash.

When a coastal Chinook comes in when an Arctic air mass is holding steady over the coast, the tropical dampness brought in suddenly cools, penetrating the frozen air and coming down in volumes of powder snow, sometimes to sea level. Snowfalls and the cold spells that spawned them only last a few days during a Chinook; as the warm coastal Chinooks blow from the southwest, they push back east the cold Arctic air. The snow melts quickly and is gone within a week.

The effects on the Interior of British Columbia when a coastal Chinook is in effect are the reverse. In a rainy spell, most of the heavy moisture will be wrung out of the rising air as a consequence of crossing over the mountain ramparts before the air mass descends (and hence warms and dries) into the Fraser Canyon and the Thompson River-Okanagan area. The effects are similar to those of an Albertan interior Chinook, though not to the same extreme, partly because the Okanagan is relatively warmer than the Prairies, and partly because of the additional number of precipitation-catching mountain ranges between Kelowna and Calgary. When the coastal Chinook brings snow to the coast during a period of coastal cold, bright but chilly weather in the interior will give way to a slushy melting of snow, more due to the warm spell than because of rain.

Pronunciation in the Pacific Northwest
The word "Chinook" remains in common use among local fishermen and people in communities along the British Columbia Coast, and coastal Washington and Oregon, and in particular, the term is used in the Puget Sound area of Washington. Coastal "Chinook" is not pronounced shin-uk  as it is in the interior, east of the Cascades, but is in the original coastal pronunciation chin-uk.

In British Columbia and other parts of the Pacific Northwest, the word Chinook was predominantly pronounced. However, the common pronunciation current throughout most of the inland Pacific Northwest, Alberta, and the rest of Canada, is, as in French. This difference may be because it was the Métis employees of the Hudson's Bay Company, who were familiar with the Chinook people and country, brought the name east of the Cascades and Rockies, along with their own ethnic pronunciation. Early records are clear that tshinook was the original pronunciation, before the word's transmission east of the Rockies.

First nations myth from British Columbia
Native legend of the Lil'wat subgroup of the St'at'imc tells of a girl named Chinook-Wind, who married Chinook Glacier, and moved to his country, which was in the area of today's Birkenhead River. She pined for her warm sea-home in the southwest, and sent a message to her people. They came to her in a vision in the form of snowflakes, and told her they were coming to get her. They came in great number and quarrelled with Glacier over her, but they overwhelmed him and in the end she went home with them.

Chinooks in Alberta and eastern British Columbia
Interior Chinooks are most prevalent over southern Alberta in Canada, especially in a belt from Pincher Creek and Crowsnest Pass through Lethbridge, which get 30–35 Chinook days per year, on average. Interior Chinooks become less frequent further south in the United States, and are not as common north of Red Deer, but they can and do occur annually as far north as High Level in northwestern Alberta and Fort St. John in northeastern British Columbia, and as far south as Las Vegas, Nevada, and occasionally to Carlsbad, in eastern New Mexico.

In Pincher Creek, the temperature rose by 25.5 C-change, from -23.2 to 2.2 C, in one hour on 6 January 1966. During the winter, driving can be treacherous, as the wind blows snow across roadways, sometimes causing roads to vanish and snowdrifts to pile up higher than a metre. Empty semitrailer trucks driving along Highway 3 and other routes in southern Alberta have been blown over by the high gusts of wind caused by interior Chinooks.

On 27 February 1992, Claresholm, Alberta, a town just south of Calgary, recorded a temperature of 24 C; again, the next day 21 C was recorded.

Clashing with Arctic air mass
The interior Chinooks can seem to battle with Arctic air masses at times.

This clash of temperatures can remain stationary, or move back and forth, in the latter case causing such fluctuations as a warm morning, a bitterly cold afternoon, and a warm evening. A curtain of fog often accompanies the clash between warm to the west and cold to the east.

Chinook arch
Two common cloud patterns seen in the interior during this time are a chinook arch overhead, and a bank of clouds (also referred to as a cloud wall) obscuring the mountains to the west. The bank appears to be an approaching storm, but does not advance any further to the east.

One of its most striking features of the interior Chinook weather system is the Chinook arch, a föhn cloud in the form of a band of stationary stratus clouds, caused by air rippling over the mountains due to orographic lifting. To those unfamiliar with it, the Chinook arch may at times look like a threatening storm cloud, however, the arch clouds rarely produce rain or snow. They can also create stunning sunrises and sunsets.

A similar phenomenon, the Nor'west arch, also a föhn cloud, is seen in southern New Zealand.

The stunning colors seen in the Chinook arch are quite common. Typically, the colours will change throughout the day, starting with yellow, orange, red, and pink shades in the morning as the sun comes up, grey shades at midday changing to pink / red colours, and then orange / yellow hues just before the sun sets.

Cause of occurrence
The interior Chinook is a föhn wind, a rain shadow wind which results from the subsequent adiabatic warming of air which has dropped most of its moisture on windward slopes (orographic lift). As a consequence of the different adiabatic rates of moist and dry air, the air on the leeward slopes becomes warmer than equivalent elevations on the windward slopes.

Sometimes the interior Chinooks are caused by the same air flow as the coastal Chinooks: As moist winds from the Pacific (coastal Chinooks) are forced to rise over the mountains, the moisture in the air is condensed and falls out as precipitation, while the air cools at the moist adiabatic rate of 5 °C / 1000 m (3.5 °F / 1000 ft). The dried air then descends on the leeward side of the mountains, warming at the dry adiabatic rate of 10 °C / 1000 m (5.5 °F / 1000 ft).

The turbulence of the high winds also can prevent the usual nocturnal temperature inversion from forming on the lee side of the slope, allowing night-time temperatures to remain elevated.

Quite often, when the Pacific Northwest coast is being drenched by rain, the windward (western) side of the Rockies is being hammered by snow (robbing the air of its moisture), and the leeward (eastern) side of the Rockies in Alberta is basking in a föhn Chinook. The three different weather conditions are all caused by the same flow of air, hence the confusion over the use of the name "Chinook wind".

Interior Chinooks and gardening on Great Plains
The frequent midwinter thaws by interior Chinooks in Great Plains country are more of a bane than a blessing to gardeners. Plants can be visibly brought out of dormancy by persistent, warm interior Chinook winds, or have their hardiness reduced even if they appear to remain dormant. In either case, they become vulnerable to later cold waves.

Many plants which do well at Winnipeg – where constant cold maintains dormancy throughout the winter – are difficult to grow in the Alberta Chinook belt. Examples include basswood, some apple, raspberry, and juneberry varieties, and Amur maples. Native trees in the interior Chinook-affected areas of Alberta are known to be small, with much less growth than the same species growing in areas not affected by interior Chinook winds. This is once again caused by the "off-and-on" dormancy throughout winter.

Health
Interior Chinook winds are said to sometimes cause a sharp increase in the number of migraine headaches suffered by the locals. At least one study conducted by the department of clinical neurosciences at the University of Calgary supports that belief. They are popularly believed to increase irritability and sleeplessness.

In mid-winter over major centres such as Calgary, interior Chinooks can often override cold air in the city, trapping the pollutants in the cold air and causing inversion smog. At such times, it is possible for it to be cold at street level and much warmer at the tops of the skyscrapers and in higher terrain.

Chinooks and föhn winds in the inland United States

In the North American western interior, winds that are generally called föhn winds by meteorologists and climatologists are called "Chinooks". Regardless of the name, föhns can occur on the leeward side of any nearby mountain range. The föhns called "Chinook winds" are seen throughout most of inland western North America, particularly the Rocky Mountain region. Montana especially has a significant amount of föhn winds throughout much of the state during the winter months, but particularly coming off the Rocky Mountain Front in the northern and west-central areas of the state.

On rare occasions, Chinook winds generated on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains have reached as far east as Wisconsin.

Records
Loma, Montana has the world record for the most extreme temperature change in a 24-hour period. On January 15, 1972, the temperature increased from -54 to 49 F, a 103 F-change change in temperature.

Spearfish, South Dakota holds the world record for the fastest increase in temperature. On January 22, 1943, the temperature increased from -4 to 45 F, a 49 F-change change in temperature. This occurred in just 2 minutes.

Spearfish, South Dakota also holds the world record for the fastest decrease in temperature, for the same day. On January 22, 1943, the temperature decreased from 54 to -4 F, a 58 F-change change in temperature. This occurred in 27 minutes.

Rapid City, South Dakota had the world record for the fastest decrease in temperature. On January 10, 1911, the temperature decreased from 60 to 13 F, a 47 F-change change in temperature.

Squamish winds, williwaws, and Chugach föhns
The resulting outflow wind is more or less the opposite of British Columbia / Pacific Northwest coastal Chinook. These are called a squamish in certain areas, rooted in the direction of such winds coming down out of Howe Sound, home to the Squamish people, and in Alaska are called a williwaw. They consist of cold airstreams from the continental air mass pouring out of the interior plateau via certain river valleys and canyons penetrating the Coast Mountains towards the coast.

A similar, local föhn wind regularly occurs in the Cook Inlet region in Alaska, as air moves over the Chugach Mountains between Prince William Sound and Portage Glacier. Anchorage residents often believe the warm winds which melt snow and leave their streets slushy and muddy are a midwinter gift from Hawaii, following a common mistake that the warm winds come from the same place as the similar winds near the coasts in southern British Columbia, Washington, and Oregon.

title: Chinook wind


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Lyndon State College

Lyndon State College was a public liberal arts college in Lyndon, Vermont. In 2018, it merged with Johnson State College to create Northern Vermont University; the former campus of Lyndon State College is now the university's Lyndon campus. In July 2023, Castleton University, Northern Vermont University-Johnson, Northern Vermont University-Lyndon, and Vermont Technical College merged to become Vermont State University. It is accredited by the New England Association of Schools and Colleges.

History
In 1911, the college was founded as a one-year normal school housed in rented space in nearby Lyndon Institute. Consistent with education tradition of the times, the Lyndon Training Course expanded its curriculum in one-year increments, and the first two-year class graduated in 1923. In 1927, Rita Bole became principal of the school. The first three-year class, consisting of nine students, graduated in 1934. In 1944, the state allowed Lyndon to grant four-year degrees so long as it remained a teacher training institution. The first four-year degrees were granted to 18 students in 1944.

Bole, who led the school until 1955, encouraged the Vermont State Legislature to establish Lyndon Teachers College, saw the admission of the first male and first out-of-state students during the 1940s, and oversaw the move to the Theodore Newton Vail estate. Vail had been instrumental in the establishment of Lyndon Institute, and Bole recognized his vacant estate as the perfect place to house the growing school. The move to Vail Manor was completed on June 30, 1951, the final day of the school's lease at Lyndon Institute.

In 1961, the State Legislature established the Vermont State Colleges system, a consortium of Vermont's five public colleges governed by a common board of trustees, chancellor and Council of Presidents and Lyndon Teachers College became Lyndon State College. This marked the beginning of a period of rapid growth and, in 1964, the campus began to expand. A library, a dormitory, a dining hall, a science wing, a gymnasium, and a theater were built. These additions began meeting the needs of a growing student population that also brought a rapid expansion of the Lyndon curriculum. In the 1970s, new majors were developed in business administration, special education, recreations, meteorology, communications, human services, and physical education. It was also during this decade that the original Vail Manor was deemed unsafe and was replaced with the Theodore N. Vail Center that now houses the Vail Museum and preserves the name that has become an integral part of the Lyndon State tradition.

In 2005, a new residence hall was constructed near Wheelock Hall. The building was named The Rita L. Bole Complex, after the principal of Lyndon Normal School.

In 2009, the Academic and Student Activity Center, a LEED-certified, or "green" building, was constructed to house Lyndon's Business, Exercise Science and Meteorology majors. It also contains computer labs, classrooms and a student event center.

In September 2016, the VSC board of trustees voted to merge Lyndon State College with Johnson State College, located roughly 50 mi away. The new combined institution was named Northern Vermont University, and JSC President Elaine Collins was named as NVU's first president to oversee the consolidation of both campus into the new university.

In July 2023, Castleton University, Northern Vermont University-Johnson, Northern Vermont University-Lyndon, and Vermont Technical College merged to become Vermont State University.

Campus
The Vail Center had classrooms, and teachers' offices, including English, mathematics, and education. It also contained the bookstore, student center, and snack bar. The science wing contained classrooms and laboratories. There was a television wing for the television studies and was home to News 7, LSC's daily live broadcast facility. It also contained the small Alexander Twilight Theater. It was connected to the Library and Academic Center (LAC).

LAC contained classrooms, a 24-hour computer lab, and the three-floor Samuel Read Hall Library.

The Harvey Academic Center was located at the center of campus and housed offices and classrooms for Recreation Studies and other programs.

The center of campus was centered around a small pond until the summer of 2019. It was filled in and made into a park. There was a large pond across from the library. Adjacent to the park was the Stevens Dining Hall.

Adjacent to the theater was the Stannard Gymnasium. The smaller gym, known as the Rita Bole Gymnasium (there is also a Rita Bole residence hall) was used for basketball games, floor hockey, and a wide variety of intramural sports. In this complex was a 25 m swimming pool, racquetball court, rock climbing wall, and a fitness center.

On the north side of the campus, across from the baseball fields, was the Brown House containing a dispensary. The Gray House was a special residential opportunity, most recently for those performing service to the community.

Residence Halls

Half of the student population lived on campus in one of the nine residence halls. The Stonehenge residence hall complex was located on the southern end of campus and consisted of six residence halls: Whitelaw/Crevecoeur (first-year students), Arnold/Bayley, and Poland/Rogers. They were clustered around a central courtyard and shaped in a circle, hence the nickname "Stonehenge." Wheelock was a residence hall in the center of campus. Rita Bole was the newest of the residence halls, which featured apartment-style living for upperclassmen. The ninth hall, Grey House, was a living-learning community dedicated to performing community service on campus and in the local area.

Athletics
Lyndon State College teams participated as a member of the National Collegiate Athletic Association's Division III. The Hornets were a member of the North Atlantic Conference (NAC). Men's sports included baseball, basketball, cross country, lacrosse, soccer and tennis; while women's sports included basketball, cross country, soccer, softball, tennis and volleyball. Club sports teams included men's ice hockey, men's rugby, women's rugby, ultimate frisbee and a dance team. which included:

Notable alumni

 * Joe Benning, 1979, member of the Vermont Senate
 * André Bernier, 1981, meteorologist at WJW-TV, Cleveland, Ohio
 * Pete Bouchard, 1992, meteorologist at WBTS-TV and other stations
 * Jim Cantore, 1986, meteorologist-announcer at The Weather Channel
 * Justin Chenette, 2012, member of the Maine House of Representatives and Maine Senate
 * Mia Consalvo, 1991, college professor and author
 * Nick Gregory, 1982, meteorologist at WNYW-TV, New York City
 * Al Kaprielian, 1983, meteorologist at WBIN-TV, WLMW-FM, and other stations
 * Wayne G. Kenyon, 1955, member of the Vermont House of Representatives
 * Matthew P. Mayo, author
 * Howard Wilbert Nowell, 1889, physician and research scientist
 * Norm Sebastian, 1979, meteorologist at The Weather Channel and WNYT-TV
 * Catherine Toll, 1981, member of the Vermont House of Representatives
 * Chip Troiano, 1976, member of the Vermont House of Representatives

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Lyndon State College


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Talk:Deaf culture

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Coleman laura. 20:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Spring 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Eric.setzer.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 16 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RCovell.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ITBillet. Peer reviewers: Ecbon.

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Deaf Gain
In the Deaf Culture wiki page, we should add the section "Deaf Gain."

Nowadays, more Deaf people are aiming to re-frame the idea of the Hearing Loss to Deaf Gain. Instead of to see how Deaf people needed to be fixed, to learn how Deaf people do contribute to our society. Without Deaf people on this planet, it wouldn't be the same as of today. Deaf people contribute to our society in many ways; to bring new perspective that nobody would thought of it. When a Deaf person understand their identity, they start to embrace and to see in positive ways, known as Deaf Gain.

David M's peer review
Howdy Daniel Patrick and Tyler Cody,

I wasn't sure which part you revised but one thing popped up in my thought while I was reading. In deaf and Deaf section, it is a hot topic nowadays. I suggest you to add like Deaf people tend are from deaf school, Gallaudet, etc while deaf from mainstream or not really proud of deaf.. maybe it could help the readers to understand content background behind it? just a thought!

how about to add some info about deaf and their typical behavior such as tap on shoulder, use light to get attention, bang on the table, etc... give readers better understand of deaf... looking forward for your ASL VIDEOS!

-Mully Djmully (talk) 22:12, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Recent edits
I reverted a series of six edits by a student editor. Much of it is fine, in particular the new Education section, but it was behind some problematic stuff, and couldn't revert just the latter; afaic the Education section can be readded without discussion. Other issues need discussion. Some talking points:

While Harlan Lane is an excellent resource, you can't just remove other excellent resources in order to add him, as you did in this edit. Also, your claim in the edit summary about "bias" and "politically correct" is a potential red flag. Your "impacts of deaf culture" edit is fine. Your "make it more concise and clear" edit moves some full refs around, subsituting named refs and vice versa (padden1988) which doesn't hurt and is a wash at the level of someone reading the article, but is confusing while reading a diff; this is a minor point as it doesn't hurt the article, I just don't understand the reason for it. Otoh, this edit removed sourced content (mindess2006, bakpad1978, Lentz et al.) without explanation other than "conciseness", but Baker & Padden are high-status authors in the deaf community, and Lentz, Mikos & Smith have made large contributions to sign language teaching and research, and these removals need more explanation than that (and imho, should not be removed, but I'd like to hear your reasoning). The new Education section is also quite good, although read the Manual of Style on MOS:SECTIONS for proper formatting of titles. Mathglot (talk) 20:51, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi there! I totally understand your reasoning for a lot of this. As I am a student editor doing this for the first time, it is a learning process and I appreciate the help. I'd like to address any concerns and figure out some solutions.

I'm currently in the process of adding back in the other sources that were on the article. Unfortunately, the format we use in my class to transfer our edits does not move the citations with, and I failed to notice that these sources had been removed. As for the red flag in my claim, I was wondering what about it sparks concern with you. I was unclear on how detailed I needed to be when talking about the changes I made, and would love help. I do, however, believe that the phrasing on this section came across poorly when myself and others were reading it. I'm not sure it was intended, but sentences like "There are three views on Deaf people" come across as mildly offensive and unclear. Any advice you can give, I would appreciate!Coleman laura (talk) 01:22, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I'm in a bit of a rush, so just quickly for now: you're absolutely right about the "three views", and I noticed that at the time, and regreetted having to revert that along with the other stuff; had you made a smaller edit with just that or nearby stuff in it, I never would've reverted it. The change to the wording you did there was very much an improvement, and I encourage you to put it back in. More advice later.  Oh, please read WP:TALK, WP:THREAD and WP:INDENT about colons and indenting at talk pages, and re or ping about notifying editors.  Later, Mathglot (talk) 01:36, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Why don't we start on areas of agreement: why don't you go ahead and put your education section back in as it was, as well as the "three views" fix. Then we can move on to the other stuff. Agreed? Adding  Mathglot (talk) 23:21, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

US or global?
As Shalor rightly points out here, this article is written primarily from the viewpoint of the United States and doesn't take a global approach. This merits a Globalize/US banner, and I've added one to the article. The underlying problem is that the current title, "Deaf culture" is contrary to article title policy, in particular, WP:PRECISION, because the content is about "Deaf culture in the United States" but the title is "Deaf culture". This mismatch between title and content cannot remain; something has to change: either the content, or the title. As I see it, there are only two approaches to fix this situation: In my opinion, #1 is preferable in theory, but practically speaking, it isn't going to happen; the article likely would end up 90% US, and a few token sentences about the rest of the world. So, that's not the way to go. A better solution, imho, is to retitle this article Deaf culture in the United States, and after that's done, start a new article from scratch called "Deaf culture" which would be in Summary style and start off as a stub, with a brief section about the U.S. summarizing this article, and a few other sections about deaf culture elsewhere; probably enough information could be found to add brief sections for the UK, Australia, and France for starters, and then slowly ramp it up. That would be a much more balanced approach, rather than an article that is hugely top-heavy for the U.S. and almost nothing about anyplace else. Mathglot (talk) 22:52, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) Add sufficient material from other countries to give the article a more worldwide view.
 * 2) Retitle the article so that the title matches the current content (and then create a new article for the global view).
 * That's not a bad idea. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:06, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge/rename
Given the title-content mismatch explained above at, I'm proposing a merge of most of this article into Deaf American and a rename of that one to Deaf culture in the United States (currently a redirect). Deaf American has substantial overlap with this article. Probaby what should happen, is that Deaf American should be renamed Deaf culture in the United States, and 90% of this article should be merged into it, leaving a stub. The stub should then be expanded into a summary-style article covering the whole world, with just a brief section on the United States summarizing it, and pointing to the newly renamed "Deaf culture in the United States". Pinging contributors . Mathglot (talk) 00:15, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No further comments here, please; the merge discussion has been moved; see link below. Mathglot (talk) 01:19, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

 * No longer at that location; can now be found here: Mathglot (talk) 07:13, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I've removed the tags from the article because the split to Deaf culture in the United States was accomplished 2 years ago, although I think both articles still might need a rebalancing.--Pharos (talk) 03:14, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Proposed Edits
I am a student editor with a few proposed edits to this article. I am still learning about formatting and etiquette of Wikipedia, so please let me know what I can improve on!

First, I would like to rephrase the following sentence "When used as a cultural label especially within the culture, the word deaf is often written with a capital D and referred to as "big D Deaf" in speech and sign. When used as a label for the audiological condition, it is written with a lower case d."

to make it read: "Within the community, Deaf using a capital "D" is used to reference the cultural identity and deaf using a lowercase "d" refers to the medical condition." I think this change makes the idea easier to understand.

Second, I propose the addition of the following bolded lines to this paragraph:

"Members of the Deaf community tend to view deafness as a difference in human experience rather than a disability or disease. However, deaf adults who are verbal and adults who became deaf late in life usually view it opposite of the Deaf community - as an impairment. Many members take pride in their Deaf identity and consider deafness a linguistic and cultural identity. Unlike some other cultures, a deaf person may join the community later in life, rather than needing to be born into it. Deaf people, in the sense of a community or culture, can then be seen as a minority group, and therefore some who are a part of this community may feel misunderstood by those who don't know sign language. Hearing family members may need to learn sign language in order for the deaf person to feel included and supported. 'Although it is common for people to marry within their own culture, the Deaf community has the highest rate of intra-cultural marriages. Around 90% of deaf people marry someone who is also deaf." Please note that there is some rephrasing of information as well and that the information on education was eliminated (as it is part of the education section). My third edit would be to delete the following bolded line in order to make the lead section more concise:'

"The community may include hearing family members of deaf people and sign-language interpreters who identify with Deaf culture. It does not automatically include all people who are deaf or hard-of-hearing. As educator and American Sign Language interpreter Anna Mindess writes, "it is not the extent of hearing loss that defines a member of the deaf community but the individual's own sense of identity and resultant actions." As with all social groups that a person chooses to belong to, a person is a member of the Deaf community if he/she "identifies him/herself as a member of the Deaf community, and other members accept that person as a part of the community."

'''The final edits I would like to make to this page is to change subheading name "behavioral patterns" to "social customs"

Also, I propose replacing the bullet list and unsourced information in the "behavioral patterns" section with the following text:

The primary basis of social customs in Deaf culture stem from the need to maintain good eye contact and visibility, and to improve the conditions of signing in order to simplify and increase comfort. These can create variation between Deaf culture and the other cultures around Deaf individuals. Culturally Deaf people have rules of etiquette for getting attention, walking through signed conversations, leave-taking, and otherwise politely negotiating a signing environment. It is customary to make and maintain steady, locked eye contact when communicating in deaf culture. They notify their friends before removing themselves from eyeshot (ex. Communicate that they are going to the restroom, etc.) Deaf people also keep each other informed of what is going on in one's environment. It is common to provide detailed information when leaving early or arriving late; withholding such information may be considered rude. Deaf people may be more direct or blunt than their hearing counterparts. When giving introductions, Deaf people typically try to find common ground. Deaf people may also consider time differently. Showing up early to large-scale events, such as lectures, is typical. This may be motivated by the need to get a seat that provides the best visual clarity for the Deaf person."

Coleman laura (talk) 15:22, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

 * Coleman laura, Just a brief comment about Talk page form: that first paragraph was a bit of a Wall of Text, and it was a bit hard to find the two sentences you were comparing; maybe use a list, or indent the two things you're comparing or something. If you're comparing whole paragraphs, then indentation or <blockquote> would be the way to go; then you can use bolding as you did, or color (see Red, Green and so on) to show the before/after changes. You can also use strikeout text  to indicate stuff you propose to delete. Looking at the wikicode, I could see that you added a newline character in a couple of places, as if to create a new paragraph, but you need two newlines to do that, i.e., a completely blank line to separate paragraphs.  So, I took the liberty to edit your post to create those paragraph breaks; I hope that's okay. Anyway, on to your comments.
 * Preposing "within the community": It is easier to understand it the way you propose, but is it true? By "community", I assume you meant the Deaf community, but if that's the case, I think that rearrangement would not be an improvement, because actually I believe the D/d usage comes from the academic community (which of course intersects with the Deaf community). Now, I said that I believe it comes from the academic community, and this is the Talk page where I don't have to put a reference for it, i.e., it's just my belief and I might be wrong. But, on the article page, we have to stick to what we can verify.  So, it could be I'm wrong, and you could write it that way. The point is, you have to find out and verify it. I think Croneberg was the first, and he's in both communities, so that's a starting point. So, which community  (And then there's even the sub-question of whether hearing academics, like Stokoe for example, are part of the Deaf community; I'd say "no", but that's just my opinion.). Also, there's no such thing as "capital D deaf" in sign language afaik (well, not in one sign anyway, although you can of course express the concept) so if the Deaf community is "using" capital-D deaf, that means in writing, so are we back to talking about Deaf academia, or what? That all needs sorting out.
 * Other changes: As far as the specific changes to paragraphs two and three you propose, we could discuss those, but there's another issue here, because the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are part of the lead. The lead of an article is supposed to summarize the body; it defines and serves as a brief introduction to the topic, and is not there to add any new or unique information. So basically, any changes you propose to the lead, need to be something that make it a better summary of the article body. That usually means, additional facts or new information or more detailed information of existing facts goes in the body first; then, if it's important enough, it gets summarized in the lead.  In this case, the situation is complicated by the fact that the Lead is already too long, and imho very poorly done.
 * If you still want to talk about your paragraph 2 and 3 changes, let me know. But there's another, and better way you could help improve the article, which would be much more important than those changes imho, and it's to fix the lead. This is a different sort of work than hunting down sources, writing citations, and adding them to the text, and I'm not sure how well it squares with whatever your college course requires of you. But for this particular article, fixing the lead would be a big improvement, and takes a different sort of skill set: you'd have to take a more 20,000-foot view of the whole article, see what it's about, make sense of what's in the body of the article, and how well the lead does, or doesn't, summarize it. (Badly, in my view.)  It could be that whole paragraphs need to be moved out of the lead to the body, either in some existing section or a new one or ones, and the lead rewritten from scratch. This is a much tougher task than "just" adding text and citations, but it would also lead to a (much) greater improvement to the article.  I don't know if the amount of time you have for a course like this makes sense to take something like that on, but I get the impression from what you've written so far that you must be one of the top students, and not afraid to take on a big or tough job, so check with your instructor, and/or User:Shalor (Wiki Ed) and if you wanted to take this on, I can guide you.
 * No worries if you want to stick to the original plan, and maybe that squares better with your assignment, so just let me know what you want to do. If we want to deal with improvements to paragraphs 2 and 3, we still can. Mathglot (talk) 21:22, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Additions to the 'Diversity within Deaf Culture' section
I think it may be worth mentioning in this Wikipedia article about how Deaf People of Color are underrepresented within the U.S. Deaf Community. Several research articles have pointed out this fact and noted that, in general, Deaf literature and Deaf history being taught at schools are quite White-centric. In Deaf Education as well, Deaf Students of Color tend to have poorer academic outcomes than White Deaf students (especially those from Deaf families). Again, this can be corroborated by research studies, especially ones written by Deaf intersectional scholars/critical theorists. Anna Lim Franck 19:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

"Deaf supremacy" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Deaf supremacy. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed,Rosguill talk 22:28, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Videos in the article
The videos in this article only showing a man explaining something in American (?) Sign Language should either get subtitles or be removed. What's the point of having several videos on a topic on the English-language Wikipedia, that 99.9% of English speakers don't understand?

Imagine the article on Armenian culture had videos in Armenian without subtitles explaining aspects of Armenian culture.

Neozoen (talk) 20:43, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I agree with your concern about not having subtitles. The man in the video was using American Sign Language (ASL). I am fluent in ASL so I went ahead and added subtitles to the "Deaf culture Introduction" video. Hopefully, all of the videos will be accessible to everyone.

Hapalow (talk) 19:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Nice work on the subtitles. I am new at this and supposed to ask a question for class assignment.  I was wondering how do we contribute to subtitle scripts for the remaining videos which do not currently have subtitles or CC?  Swoop Pedagogy (talk) 15:12, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Importance of capitalizing Deaf?
I have heard - somewhat word of mouth, but from a classmate who has done a decent amount of study on Deaf culture in college - that to some Deaf people, lowercase-d "deaf" is considered a slur. Not just that it reflects a deficit-focused idea of an "impairment" which they object to, but intense enough to immediately upset a Deaf person reading it. Maybe that's just that one person's idea of what they consider a harmful slur, but if it's a more common perspective among Deaf people, should that information

1. be added to the article and

2. be reflected in the language the article uses? (since I believe Wikipedia standardly avoids referring to groups of people by what they would consider a slur, even if it might be ignorantly used by many people - for example, the article on Romani people thoroughly explains the word "gypsy" but uses "Roma" and "Romani" far more often.)

Would love to engage with others' thoughts and expertise on these matters. Jojopeanut (talk) 02:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It very much depends on the person, the situation, and the context in which the word is used. It's quite vague to state that "some Deaf people" find something offensive. How many is "some Deaf people"? What is the context? We definitely don't need such a vague generalization in the article. We need a lot more specifics, and we need very reliable sources. In my opinion we also need a clear consensus here. Otherwise it's Wikipedia that is being offensive to Deaf people. This is further complicated in this article by the use of "deaf" people in general, not necessarily those who identify with the Deaf community. Does the Deaf community consider it offensive to refer to someone who does not identify with the Deaf community as "Deaf"? There was a similar discussion at the talk page for Jews. Someone wanted to change all references to "Jews" to "Jewish people" because the editor thought "Jews" was offensive; in reality the vast majority of Jews use the term "Jews". Wikipedia is on a slippery slope when it tries to make sweeping generalizations about what a certain group of people consider offensive. I suggest not proceeding any further until it is discussed at WT:WikiProject Deaf. Sundayclose (talk) 02:53, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * We don't change terminology in articles because of what some people want. We use Wikipedia's policies and guidelines to determine issues like this, which generally comes down to how a majority of reliable English sources use the term. We are an encyclopedia, a tertiary source; we don't make judgments about what's offensive, or what isn't, or it would never end; we let reliable sources deal with such things, and simply follow what they do. Wikipedia's use of the word Romani isn't because some Allowable Ethnonyms Board has decided to favor it in order not to be offensive; we do it, because that's what the majority of reliable English sources do.  Also, WP:LOCALCONSENSUS does not trump policy.  Mathglot (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Generally I agree. As I noted above, in general we don't make judgments about what is offensive. But this can be a gray area. There is widely acknowledged offensive terminology that would not be acceptable on Wikipedia. That is a result of general societal norms about offensiveness. If "deaf" lower case became offensive by society in general, it would not be acceptable on Wikipedia. As a related example, the terms ""deaf and dumb" and "deaf-mute", although discussed as terms on Wikipedia, would not be acceptable for general usage. But if Wikipedia had been available a hundred years ago, those terms would have been used with little objection. There are other examples, such as idiot, moron, and imbecile. The euphemism treadmill forces the acceptability of some terms to change over time.

 * Capitalization also can be a gray area. Capitalization generally is a stylistic matter that is covered under Wikipedia guidelines; if there's a policy I'm not aware of it, but feel free to correct me. Guidelines are more flexible than policies. For example, see bell hooks. Sundayclose (talk) 19:49, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion: Diversity within Deaf Culture and LGBTQ+
I am currently working on a section on the Deaf Culture Wikipedia page to expand the Deaf LGBTQ institutions section, but this page is lacking discussion of the LGBTQ+ community outside of this section. I see under "Acculturation" that there is a section titled "Diversity within Deaf Culture." I believe this subhead should be separated into a new section and that diversity should refer to not only races, but also address the LGBTQ community. A subheader could be added addressing the intersection with the LGBTQ+ community. The section could note the prevalence of queer people in the Deaf community and discuss homophobia in the history of ASL. Further, it should discuss history of Deaf people leading efforts in the gay liberation movement, efforts of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force to advocate for the Deaf community, development of resources and organizations for Deaf queer people, and Deaf drag. Kmak 32 (talk) 17:00, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

"Deaf ethnicity" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Deaf ethnicity and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. An anonymous username, not my real name 21:34, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Deaf culture


text:
File talk:My Lai massacre.jpg

I found a web page that said the picture was taken by Ronald L. Haeberle. Another web site says he was a sargeant at the time and I wonder what the copyright would be then.

NPOV
The idea that insurgent primarily referred to civilians is absurd. unsigned comment 20:09, Apr 24, 2005 69.211.104.182

 * Do you realize that assertion that is contained in an explicitly-marked excerpt from a book? In any case, it is probably unnecessary to have an editorial remark in the description of a photograph. -Willmcw 00:59, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * More to the point, unless someone can justify the NPOV tag on a picture, it should be removed. -Willmcw 19:11, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * Based on a lack of active discussion, or even a clear justification for the addition of the tag in the first place, I'm going to remove the NPOV tag. If anyone still has concerns they are welcome to re-add it and to bring those concerns here. -Willmcw 02:33, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

title: File talk:My Lai massacre.jpg


text:
Talk:John Knox

Religious Fanaticism
There are some sources who point clearly for his religious faith to have been a lot influenced by the Old Testament, which made him much more fanatic thowards Catholicism then the European Continental Reformers. This article from the "Catholic Encyclopedia" points that he openly believed to be a moral duty of the "real" Christians" to slaughter the Catholics, which he saw as "idolaters". If this is true, I think it should be mentioned in the article.85.240.21.40 (talk) 20:07, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

 * You are writing about this sentence in the Catholic Encyclopaedia: in 1564, "The Lords of the Congregation, in the summer of this year, publicly censured Knox for his violence in speech and demeanour against the queen, but Knox retorted with his usual references to Ahab and Jezebel, and maintained that idolaters must "die the death", and that the executioners must be the "people of God"." This a reasonably accurate description of a lengthy passage of dialogue in Knox's own History of the Reformation in Scotland, book 4, (vol.2 (1848), Wodrow Society, pp.401-460). However, they were talking about Old Testament idolators (not present slaughtering), in a discussion about Knox's challenges to the authority of Mary, Queen of Scots, and the discussion was with the Queen herself and then her Privy council, particularly featuring William Maitland of Lethington and James MacGill. I hope this is helpful.Unoquha (talk) 10:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

 * The incident above appears in the present wiki article as; "When the General Assembly convened in June 1564, an argument broke out between Knox and Maitland over the authority of the civil government."Unoquha (talk) 10:09, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The Catholic Encyclopedia is hardly a neutral source. For this kind of statement, you're probably going to need to find a more WP:NPOV source than the CE. ReformedArsenal (talk) 11:10, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Reliable Sources can have a POV and it is entirely permissible to use them - if balance is needed, another RS can be used to point out a different POV.104.169.18.254 (talk) 11:04, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Margery Bowes' brother
The article had a link to Robert Bowes (lawyer) (who died in 1555) with the statement that he was Margery Bowes' brother. I've replaced it with a link to Robert Bowes (diplomat) (who died in 1597), who according to RS was Margery's brother. NinaGreen (talk) 18:31, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Death Knell of John Knox at the Tate Museum
‘Death Knell for John Knox’ was directly inspired by Bellany's revelatory discovery in a biography of Knox that ‘he was not as white as the driven snow’. He has explained that Knox's death was melodramatic to the point that Strindberg or Ibsen looked like Walt Disney in comparison. Knox's passion for his sixteen year old step daughter was at its highest peak, his wife, her mother turned a blind eye to the iniquities. Then Knox had a nightmare that he was in Hell and woke from his vision a distraught and terrorised man and his death scene was hardly filled with singing of angelic choirs, but remorse and soul searching and extreme anguish of spirit and soul until the life left him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:8241:5600:95A5:8235:F950:3006 (talk) 17:11, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

 * I dislike Johnny Knox as well as any man, but such sentiments on an imagined and alleged offence seems overwrought. Fair play to the old rascal.
 * The Tate picture
 * Mr. Bellany's output seem rather depressing anyway. Claverhouse (talk) 18:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Second
The name of John Knox's second wife is said to be Elizabeth Stewart and Margaret Stewart. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.12.86 (talk) 12:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Confinement in the French Galleys
'''n February 1549, after spending a total of 19 months in the galley-prison, Knox was released. It is uncertain how he obtained his liberty. Later in the year, Henry II arranged with Edward VI of England the release of all remaining Castilian prisoners.'''

Which Castilians were these ? This is the first and only mention. Claverhouse (talk) 18:45, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:John Knox


text:
HMAS Rockhampton

HMAS Rockhampton (J203/M203), named for the city of Rockhampton, Queensland, was one of 60 Bathurst-class corvettes constructed during World War II, and one of 36 initially manned and commissioned solely by the Royal Australian Navy (RAN).

Design and construction
In 1938, the Australian Commonwealth Naval Board (ACNB) identified the need for a general purpose 'local defence vessel' capable of both anti-submarine and mine-warfare duties, while easy to construct and operate. The vessel was initially envisaged as having a displacement of approximately 500 tons, a speed of at least 10 kn, and a range of 2000 nmi The opportunity to build a prototype in the place of a cancelled Bar-class boom defence vessel saw the proposed design increased to a 680-ton vessel, with a 15.5 kn top speed, and a range of 2850 nmi, armed with a 4-inch gun, equipped with asdic, and able to fitted with either depth charges or minesweeping equipment depending on the planned operations: although closer in size to a sloop than a local defence vessel, the resulting increased capabilities were accepted due to advantages over British-designed mine warfare and anti-submarine vessels. Construction of the prototype HMAS Kangaroo did not go ahead, but the plans were retained. The need for locally built 'all-rounder' vessels at the start of World War II saw the "Australian Minesweepers" (designated as such to hide their anti-submarine capability, but popularly referred to as "corvettes") approved in September 1939, with 60 constructed during the course of the war: 36 (including Rockhampton) ordered by the RAN, 20 ordered by the British Admiralty but manned and commissioned as RAN vessels, and 4 for the Royal Indian Navy.

Rockhampton had a slightly wider beam than other Bathurst class corvettes; 1.5 in greater.

Rockhampton was laid down by Walkers Limited at Maryborough, Queensland on 6 November 1940, launched on 26 June 1941, and commissioned into the RAN on 21 January 1942.

Operational history
Rockhampton began her career as a convoy escort along the east coast of Australia. Following a series of Japanese submarine attacks along the east coast of Australia, a convoy system was established. Rockhampton and USS Selfridge (DD-357) escorted the first Sydney to Brisbane convoy. The corvette remained in this role until January 1944, when she began escorting convoys to and from New Guinea. She underwent refit in Sydney over April and May 1944, before returning to escort duties in New Guinea waters. Rockhampton operated in both Australian and New Guinea waters up until the end of World War II.

Following the end of the war, Rockhampton was involved in the rescue of Dutch and Indonesian prisoners-of-war and the occupation of Ambon. On 8 October 1945, the corvette carried the Sultan of Ternate on his return home. Rockhampton returned to Sydney in November 1945, where she was assigned to minesweeping duties off the east coast of Australia. She later participated in survey duties off the coast of South Australia, before returning to Sydney on 29 April 1946.

The corvette received two battle honours for her wartime service: "Pacific 1942–45" and "New Guinea 1944".

Fate
Rockhampton paid off to reserve on 5 August 1946, and was sold to Kino Shito (Australia) Pty Ltd for scrap on 6 January 1961. She departed Australia for Japan under tow by the tug Benton Maru in 1962.

title: HMAS Rockhampton


text:
HMAS Rushcutter (M 80)

HMAS Rushcutter (M 80) was one of two Bay class minehunters built for the Royal Australian Navy by Carrington Slipways at its Ramsay Fibreglass facility in Tomago, New South Wales. She was launched on 8 May 1986 and commissioned on 1 November 1986. She was decommissioned on 14 August 2001. She and sister ship HMAS Shoalwater (M 81) were sold in 2002 for service in the Persian Gulf. At some point before 2013, the vessel ended up in private hands in Rozelle Bay.

title: HMAS Rushcutter (M 80)


text:
List of fictional Oxford colleges

Fictional colleges are found in many modern novels, films, and other works of fiction, probably because they allow the author greater licence for invention and a reduced risk of being accused of libel, as might happen if the author depicted unsavory events as occurring at a real-life institution. Below is a list of some of the fictional colleges of the University of Oxford.

His Dark Materials
Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials novels feature a number of fictional Oxford colleges, most notably Jordan College, including:
 * Broadgates Hall College
 * Cardinal's College
 * Foxe College
 * Gabriel College
 * Jordan College
 * Queen Philippa's College
 * St Michael's College
 * St Scholastica's College
 * St Sophia's College
 * Wordsworth College
 * Wykeham College

Inspector Morse
The Inspector Morse series of books by Colin Dexter is predominantly set within Oxford and its environs, including the University. Consequently, many fictional colleges are named. The derived television series, Inspector Morse, Lewis and Endeavour, continued this practice.

T=TV series

Jude the Obscure
Thomas Hardy's novel Jude the Obscure is set in Christminster, "Wessex", a thinly fictionalised version of Oxford, and mentions the following colleges of Christminster University:
 * Biblioll College (Balliol)
 * Cardinal College (Christ Church)
 * Crozier College (Oriel?)
 * Oldgate College (New College)
 * Rubric College (Brasenose?)
 * Sarcophagus College
 * Tudor College

Loss and Gain
Loss and Gain by St John Henry Newman tells the story of the conversion of Charles Reding, an Oxford student, to Catholicism. In the novel, Newman creates the following colleges:

 * Saint Saviour's (the college of the main character, Charles Reding)
 * All Saints
 * Leicester College
 * Nun's Hall

Fictional library

 * In Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series, Oxford's Bodleian Library has a secret part, known and accessible only to practitioners of Magic and containing among other things the secret writings of Isaac Newton on this subject.

title: List of fictional Oxford colleges


text:
Talk:Marsupial

Range Map Incomplete
I work for a pest control company in Riverside County, California (southern California), and we catch Virginia opossums quite often. The "introduced range" on the map is in need of an update. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.47.149.61 (talk) 02:39, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Opossums (delphimorphia) are also common in San Francisco, California. The map, "Present day distribution of marsupials", needs to be updated to show the range of introduced Marsupials to California. --NoahSpurrier (talk) 16:29, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Metatheria/Marsupialia
Should we be using this for the Scientific classification tables or the Metatheria subclass? The Metatheria page seems to say that it is a more modern classification. The University of Michigan Museum of Biology uses Metatheria. I will not change it because I am not an animal scientist. -- PlatinumX 02:36, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

To me, I think use of the Metatheria makes sense, but I think the question should be posted to users before a change is made, so I'm adding an article where the poll can be taken. --216.228.163.41 01:01, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * This article contradicts with Mammalia and many others, because of Marsupialia / Metatheria. I think it must be fixed as soon as possible, but - no changes since 30 May 2004. On the other hand, if the infraclass is Metatheria, then what is Marsupialia - just some abstract group within Metatheria? Or has it scientific taxonomic name too? --78.61.94.98 13:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC) (Nomad)

 * In simple terms (although I am not a scientist) mammals are raising their young with the help of their mammalian glands, whether in a pouch or outside. Marsupials are born in an embryo like state and then develop in the pouch. There is no placenta. Animals that have a placenta (and larger womb) are also mammals and these are the ones we think of usually.

Because we cannot see the mammalian glands which are in pouches, we tend to think marsupials are not mammals. Just goes to show, if you do not see it, that does not mean it does not exist. 121.209.56.25 (talk) 06:38, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Which taxon
Should we maybe use superorder instead of magnorder?--Ingoolemo 01:09, 2004 Jun 6 (UTC)

Taxonomy
I don't think this classification (McKenna & Bell's, apparently) is a good one. The Ameridelphia is probably paraphyletic. I think my own classification (Mammal Taxonomy is better and the Metatheria and Marsupialia pages should be merged. Ucucha 14:28, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I tracked down your taxonomy via Archive.org. At least McKenna and Bell understood that shrews and bats aren't basal placentals.Sumanuil (talk) 00:37, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Pouch Clarification
In the opening line of the article, it says that marsupials are characterized by a pouch. This is untrue. The true defining characteristic of a marsupial is that it gives birth to its offspring at a young, undeveloped age (prematurely). This is the biological taxonomically correct reason for their classification.75.130.49.102 (talk) 14:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

This article assumes that the reader knows that nipples are inside the pouch. It would be nice if this could be worded to make that more clear. And, along those same lines, I followed the Pouch link to see if it clarified this. Unfortunately, it gets redirected to Ileo-anal pouch. I'm not sure that should happen, but it is definately not related to this topic. But I enjoyed the page otherwise! :-) PerlKnitter 14:34, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

not all marsupials have true pouches. The article should mention this. References: http://www.arkive.org/brush-tailed-phascogale/phascogale-tapoatafa/ http://www.marsupialsociety.org.au/keeping-marsupials-dasyurids.html http://jeb.biologists.org/content/205/24/3775.full.pdf http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/2012/07/12/meet-the-borhyaenoids-2012/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.33.245.149 (talk) 05:18, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Number of species
The first part of the article says that there are between 260 and 280 species of marsupials, but in the second part of the article the sum of the numbers of species in the orders is 334!? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.131.10.241 (talk • contribs).
 * Fixed. The lower section numbers wer updated, but the upper seciton had not been. - UtherSRG (talk) 00:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Infraclass, not subclass
Since the subclass rank is already occupied by Theria, of which Marsupiala is a subdivision, Marsupiala should be an infraclass. The Theria page confirms this. Jerkov 13:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I have mostly encountered Metatheria as a monotypic (for present times) infraclass, not marsupialia (most times treated as a class or superclass by older and propably not very accurate literature). Even in wikipedia it is stated that metatheria and marsupialia are not completely synonymous while they are both treated as infraclasses. Can we have an experts' opinion on that please?--92.118.191.48 (talk) 02:15, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Marsupial Frogs
I added marsupial frogs but UtherSRG removed them. Why? Are not marsupial frogs marsupial? Is convergent evolution a reason why marsupial frogs are not marsupial enough to appear on the marsupial page? --SafeLibraries 17:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Because they already have an article, marsupial frog, which I put a link to at the top of the article where it belongs. In addition "marsupial frog" is unique, while "marsupial mammal" is redundant - the frogs are named for the mammal. "Marsupial" by itself with no context refers to the mammal; it only refers to the frogs in the context of the frogs. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I see now. I missed before that "This article is about mammal. For the frogs, see marsupial frog" was added to the top of the page.  That's a great solution.  Thanks.  --SafeLibraries 18:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

ancestral homeland?
I'd like to see a little more about (or links to) the continental drift theories explaining why there are marsupials in Australia and South America but not in Africa. Were there marsupials in Antarctica, Madagasgar and India? I'd love to see a map showing the pre-drifted continents with a hypothetical "homeland" of the marsupials shaded in. User:bigfun 21:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Marsupials probably originated in North America and - in contrast to most placentals - reached both South America and Australia. They survived in Eurasia and North America (I'm not sure about Africa) until sometime in the Miocene; their extinction was probably caused by climatic changes. Ucucha 18:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Marsupials did live in antartica. They had to pass through it to reach Australia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.166.82.187 (talk) 21:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

The references used(Harrison1924) is incorrect, it is not a recognised source or a published paper that has gone through peer review. The age given in the article is also incorrect. Marsupial diversity originates in south america. despite the most prominent appearing in australia. According to biogeographic theory, the area of highest diversity is also the point of highest radiation of species to elsewhere on the planet. This is also backed up with the fact that the most primitive marsupials (which exhibit the most basic pouch structure) are also found in south america. the date 124 million years ago cannot then be used as an acceptable date, as south america had no contact (or ever has since pangaea) with china, and maintained geographic isolation since it left Gondwana (the southern supercontinent) AFTER 124mya. Other species left behind to colonise australia (since africa and india had already departed the supercontinent) and flee the ice sheets and the cold, were left to diversify in to the megafauna of australia. The fossil in china is merely the furthest extent of the "wallace line" A line drawn by biologist Alfred wallace to indicate the barrier, where australian/oceanean and eurasian species of plants and animals meet. While geological and radiological dating cannot lie, It could be surmised that this species is a relict taxa from before the split in the continents, A species which may have moved to south america. Or may have existed worldwide. The fossil record is unreliable as a source of absolutes. one this is not absolute, that the laurasian supercontinent is the homeland of the marsupial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.33.208.212 (talk • contribs)
 * I am unable to understand all that you are writing here, but you appear to be omitting the fact that there (to the best of my knowledge) are no Mesozoic marsupials anywhere in Gondwana. Instead, there is a large variety of Cretaceous North American marsupials, and there are also some from Asia. Ucucha 19:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

"Marsupial success over placental mammals in Australia has been attributed to their comparatively low metabolic rate, a trait which would prove helpful given Australia's characteristic low fertility and aridity.[citation needed] " This needs to be looked at by an expert as Australia only became arid at the holocene around 10-14 thousand years ago - and at the stated time of their spread to Australia (50mya) Australia was I think quite heavily forested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.100.70.222 (talk) 21:51, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

more info?
this article is a bit thin, could saome one go into more detail? maybe list a few more marsupials? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.238.48.40 (talk • contribs).
 * Someone had vandalized the page. I've fixed it. - UtherSRG (talk) 06:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Macropods
what makes  Marsupial mammal in the family Macropodidae different to other animals —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.160.120.242 (talk • contribs).
 * Have you read Marsupial and Macropodidae? - UtherSRG (talk) 13:18, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

south-east asian origin
The speculation that marsupials may have reached Australia via south-east Asia is so absurd that it shouldn't even be raised in this article. Marsupials have existed in Australia long before Australia drifted anywhere near Asia. The assertion that marsupials co-exist with "primates, hoofed mammals and other placentals" in Indonesia is false, as it overlooks the fact that they are separated by the Wallace Line, a deep channel in the sea within Indonesia that has insured that the eastern part (east of Lombok Strait) has never been connected by a land bridge to the western part during periods of low sea level. Thus only a few flying mammals and rodents (which presumably caught a ride on floating logs) have managed to cross. --59.154.24.148 (talk) 07:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Marsupial neurology
The opening paragraph suggests that the only major difference between marsupials and placentals is their respective reproductive systems. This is misleading. For one thing, marsupials and monotremes lack corpora callosa. Not sure where to mention this, as the opening paragraph of this article already seems a bit overlarge, but this is hardly enough data to justify a new section. 89.0.101.51 (talk) 13:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have verifiable and reliable source that you can cite? - UtherSRG (talk) 14:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Walker's Mammals of the World, 6th Edition, Volume I, page 5.

"The brain of the marsupials, like that of the monotremes, lacks a corpus callosum [...]" The same paragraph also mentions dentition and cranial characteristics. WorldAsWill (talk) 04:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Please clarify the cloaca bit
Marsupials have a cloaca that is connected to a urogenital sac in both sexes. In what way is this sac urogenital? The text explains how it serves a role in waste removal, but has it got a genital role as well? Shinobu (talk) 22:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Classification of a species known only thru fossil record
The distinction between a placental mammal and a marsupial one is soft tissue which wouldn't normally be fossilized. I presume there are female pelvic differences that are taken as evidence. Whatever the method it should be made clear. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, there are distinct skeletal differences between marsupials and placental mammals - although it's not the pelvis that is crucial, and, indeed many marsupial fossils are known only from parts of the skull. I'll add something to the article to clarify the issue. Anaxial (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge 'Joey' into this article
The Joey (marsupial) article is proposed for merging into this one.

If this were to go ahead, please amend Kangaroo accordingly. Earthlyreason (talk) 15:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree with the merging. Figaro (talk) 15:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Makes sense to me, too. Anaxial (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree, too, because the stub article really has no reason to be apart from the main topic --Cyndaquazy (talk) 21:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree. Wikislemur (talk) 01:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Multiple vaginas
The page is incorrect, or at least vague, about the details of the marsupial reproductive system. Here's the problematic statement: "Females have two vaginas, both of which open externally through one orifice but lead to different compartments within the uterus." Most sources describe marsupials as having two lateral vaginas (for mating), along with a median vagina (for birth). The latter can be transitory or permanent. (One of the documents the page refers to the median vagina as a "pseudovaginal canal", which I haven't seen anywhere else.) The two lateral vaginas open into two uteruses, or a "double-horned (bicornuate) uterus". Walker's Mammals of the World goes into some detail in chapter 1. MacDonald's Encyclopedia of Mammals is much briefer, but mentions the "double-horned (bicornuate) uterus". There are some illustrations of the internal reproductive organs in Stephen Jackson's Koala: Origins of an Icon. WorldAsWill (talk) 04:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Petrosal
can someone check the petrosal link is right pls, there was no link from it before and most people won't know what it means, Tom B (talk) 20:39, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Looks correct to me; I'm not aware of another meaning of the word "petrosal" - albeit it's a separate bone in marsupials, not a part of a fused temporal bone, as in humans. (Although I agree a link was needed!) Anaxial (talk) 21:02, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Helpful paper for marsupials
http://www.biologia.ufrj.br/labs/labvert/Artigos/GEB13_439.pdf Andrew Colvin • Talk 21:58, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

New maps
The maps that were just added to the article are helpful, but there are a couple of problems. In File:Marsupial_biogeography_present_day_-_dymaxion_map.png, the introduced range of marsupials in New Zealand and on the U.S. West Coast is colored. I wouldn't do that, especially for a map where the focus is on biogeography. On the other hand, the map is missing the indigenous distribution of marsupials on Sulawesi, the Vogelkop peninsula, and New Britain, and (if introduced distributions are to be included) the feral populations of red-necked wallabies in the UK. I was also surprised to see the range of the Virginia opossum extending all the way north to the Hudson Bay.

File:Marsupial-biogeography-animation-map.gif is completely wrong, and I have removed it from the article for the present. There are, in fact, no known unambiguous records of marsupials from the southern continents during the Mesozoic (UA 8699 is one disputed record). The map starts at 170 MA, whereas the oldest known metatherian (not even marsupial) is Sinodelphys at 125 MA. Marsupials occurred commonly in Laurasia during the Cretaceous and survived in Europe (for example) into the Miocene; all that is missing from the map, which only shows them occurring on Gondwana. Ucucha 05:35, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Every single book I have read about the biogeography of marsupials explains it exactly as the animation showed.

 * http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/index.shtml
 * Jerry Coyne’s book Why Evolution is True
 * Richard Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earth
 * and others.

 * Also, maps online of the distribution showed the marsupials extending way up north in North America.

 * Come to think of it, these books and source must be considering marsupial ancestors. If you say that there are no marsupial fossils in the Mesozoic, then that poses a problem with the distribution of them. If they were in Europe, then these sources are lying or omitting information. If this is the case, then how did they end up wherever they are today? The map can be remade to accommodate the correct information very easily. Andrew Colvin • Talk 20:59, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

 * That marsupials spread to Australia via South America and Antarctica is undoubtedly true. That there are no undisputed records of marsupials anywhere in Gondwana during the Mesozoic (let alone during the Middle Jurassic, as your map suggests) is also true, however, and that metatherians (not necessarily marsupials—marsupials are the crown group that includes the last common ancestor of the living species and all its descendants, whereas metatherians are the total group that includes everything that shares a more recent common ancestor with marsupials than with placentals; I was imprecise with those terms in my previous post) first occurred in Asia and North America during the Cretaceous is also true. See, for example, Luo, Z.-X., Qiang, A., Wible, J. R. & Yuan, C. 2003 An early Cretaceous tribosphenic mammal and metatherian evolution. Science 302, 1934–1940. Ucucha 21:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * (After edit conflict) It matters whether we're talking about metatherians or marsupials, as I defined them in my previous post. Metatherians first appear in China at about 125 MA (Sinodelphys, see Luo et al., 2003) and a little later in North America. During the Cretaceous, they spread across North America and Eurasia. Herpetotheriid and/or peradectid marsupials survived in Europe until somewhere in the Miocene (20 MA or so), and also occurred in Africa and Asia (I don't know the details right now). Metatherians probably spread to South America around the early Paleocene. There are no undisputed records in the Mesozoic of Gondwana, though there are apparently some poorly dated or poorly determined things from the Cretaceous of South America (Krause, 2001, cited in UA 8699) and a possible record from the latest Cretaceous of Madagascar (UA 8699, which may also be from a placental). From South America, they spread on to Australia, where the earliest marsupial fossils occur in the early Eocene (Djarthia, see ). Ucucha 21:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If we're talking about marsupials in the strict sense, it becomes a little blurred. Herpetotheriids, peradectids, and co have traditionally been interpreted as closely related to modern opossums (and therefore as marsupials), but herpetotheriids at least may actually be outside the marsupial clade (see Sánchez-Villagra et al., 2007, ). That may also turn out to be the case for other Laurasian metatherians like peradectids, and if that is the case, true marsupials may never have occurred outside South America, Antarctica, and Australia (except for the Virginia Opossum and the modern opossums of Central America). But I'm not sure whether that interpretation is supportable by sources or original synthesis. Ucucha 21:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Marsupials Displacing Australian Placentals
According to the article, "In Australia, marsupials displaced any placental mammals entirely, and have since dominated the Australian ecosystem." The source is The Ancestor's Tale, by Richard Dawkins. I asked the good folks at http://www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers/viewtopic.php?id=5165 about this and someone said that nothing to this effect was in the book. Can anyone verify or refute this? Zhoulikan (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2010 (UTC)Luke
 * It's false, as far as I know; bats have been present in Australia since the Eocene. Ucucha 03:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Bats are a bad example, since they fly and thus don't come into direct competition with any marsupials.Zhoulikan (talk) 08:41, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

What this article doesn't mention is if males have pouches
Could that be added? Will (Talk - contribs) 11:02, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Males don't have pouches. Only females have pouches.  Figaro (talk) 12:31, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Except in the thylacine and yapok . Ucucha 12:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, thylacine (Tasmanian tiger) and yapok (water opposm) have pouches on both sexes- and this is not discussed. It should be made clear. V al chem ishnu ʘ 15:58, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

North America / Mexico
The introduction mentions that there is one species of marsupial in North America -- but the Virginia Opossum seems to always be mentioned as the only North American marsupial "north of Mexico." Are there other species in Mexico? Since it is part of North America, the "one species" phrasing should probably be changed/clarified. -Tim D (talk) 18:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There are several other marsupials in Mexico; Marmosa mexicana is an obvious example, and Tlacuatzin canescens is even endemic there. I'll correct the article. Ucucha 18:54, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Deleted misleading and antiquated 1924 reference to migration of marsupials
Since no one in the modern age suggests that marsupials in Sulawesi are relicts of an ancient expansion from China, rather than a fairly recent expansion from Sahul (Ice Age Australia with New Guinea), I've deleted the text "a few species of marsupials presently living in Indonesia as far west as Sulawesi, which is sometimes considered to be in an Asian ecozone, with its citation to Harrison, L., The Migration Route of the Australian Marsupial Fauna, Australian Zoologist, Volume 3, Pages 247-263, 1924 which was added in 2010. The statement " Modern marsupials appear to have reached the islands of Borneo and Sulawesi relatively recently via Australia." is supported by the Dawkins reference.--Wetman (talk) 15:59, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Jelly beans
Could someone who knows the details please replace the jelly bean statement with actual measurements? Sadly, jelly beans are no longer a standard size, there are giant ones and miniatures available. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:50, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Insert etymology
Please put the etymology in (early on) in the article. It serves as a quick definition. Marsupium - pouch. Done. 71.139.166.154 (talk) 17:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Sparassodonta & Marsupials
Can someone provide a citation to verify the removal of Sparassodonta from Marsupialia? Ideally the first study that formally proposed the split (see Talk:Sparassodonta)- I don't doubt that it has occurred, but this fairly drastic taxonomic change needs verifiable documentation. Animalparty (talk) 20:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Citations Needed
Multiple statements need citations in this article suck as the Jelly bean statement in reference to the size of a newborn marsupial. Also the statement "except for the largest species of kangaroo; the eastern grey and red kangaroos" in reference to the male reproductive system. Secondly, Citations 9 and 16 are BBC news articles which does not serve as a reliable source for scientific material. Should insert a primary research article that has been peer reviewed.

Sentence Structure
Multiple sentences should be edited or rearranged so they are more understandable. For example: "Most morphological evidence comparing traits such as number and arrangement of teeth and structure of the reproductive and waste elimination systems favors a closer evolutionary relationship between marsupials and placental mammals than either with the monotremes, as does most genetic and molecular evidence" Edited: "Most morphological, genetic, and molecular evidence comparing traits such as number and arrangement of teeth, structure of the reproductive, and waste elimination systems favors a closer evolutionary relationship between marsupials and placental mammals than either with the monotremes."

Direction of the Marsupial migration
We read in the article: “A new hypothesis suggests that South American microbiotheres resulted from a back-dispersal from eastern Gondwana due to new cranial and post-cranial marsupial fossils from the Djarthia murgonensis from the early Eocene Tingamarra Local Fauna in Australia that indicate the Djarthia murgonensis is the most plesiomorphic, the oldest unequivocal australidelphian, and may be the ancestral morphotype of the Australian marsupial radiation”. Is it really a new hypothesis?

But this hypothesis is from 2008, so it is OLDER than the one (based on genetics, 2010) claiming that the microbiotheres are American autochthons and Djarthia is a result of the South America --> Antarctis --> Australia migration.

Anyway, the citing the two contradicting views in the article needs some clarification.

31.11.242.188 (talk) 12:09, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Regarding dryolestoid affinity
Per recent edits and reverts by myself, and, I believe we should currently give little or no mention of the non-peer-reviewed hypothesis that suggests some marsupials were dryolestoids, as it gives undue weight per WP:UNDUE and WP:BALASPS. There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Marsupial mole, which may affect this and articles on marsupial, dryolestoids, and extinct mammals. In the aims of centralizing discussion, interested editors may want to comment there. All the best --Animalparty! (talk) 00:07, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Citation 45 incomplete
Citation 45 gives a title of "Why are There Fewer Marsupials than Placentals?" and also specifies "December 2013, Volume 20, Issue 4" and page numbers, but doesn't identify the journal. 73.53.61.168 (talk) 13:53, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Grammatical errors in automatically translated text
In your recent addition to this article, several grammatical errors were introduced in the automatic translation from German to English. Can anyone help us to correct these errors? Jarble (talk) 21:36, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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"per pine half"
Regarding teeth - what does "pine half" mean? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:17, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Don't know but you can tag it for clarification if you like. Deb (talk) 15:53, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Larvae?
Okay, so is it safe to call newborn marsupials larvae? Sarsath3 (talk) 00:34, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Main image is biologically inaccurate regarding the Virginia Opossum
The main image in the introduction to the article depicts a Virginia Opossum hanging from a tree branch by the tail. Although opossums are often depicted in artwork as hanging by their tail, actual opossums are physically incapable of doing so. It would appear that this photograph is not a live opossum, but is some sort of taxidermy. The image should really be updated to avoid being misleading and perpetuating the false belief that opossums actually hang by their tails. This false belief often results in people picking up opossums by their tails and causing serious injury. Can someone please switch out the image with a biologically accurate one, perhaps with the lede image from the article for Virginia Opossum? Vontheri (talk) 23:25, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Habitat
You know what would be nice? A section that mentioned the habitat of marsupials. Why isn't that a thing? Monkeytheboy (talk) 05:41, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , the habitats are mentioned, but "marsupial" is such a broad category of animals that we really can't say anything specific about them. Why don't you read about kangaroos or opossums in particular? Elizium23 (talk) 05:53, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

"North of Mexico"
There are only two nation-states "north of Mexico". Why do you keep reverting edits removing this asinine phrasing? 24.235.57.197 (talk) 18:12, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Because as it is, the statement's wording is consistent with the rest of the paragraph, and is still technically correct. I mean, there is no law stating that we must name-drop Canada and the USA in place of "north of Mexico," and then there's also the technical situation of how not all of the USA is situated "north of Mexico," as there are no Virginia opossums naturally found in Hawaii or Guam.--Mr Fink (talk) 18:37, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

'"oral shields"'
If joeys are born with one each, it would be better to say "A joey is born with an oral shield". The plural "Joeys are born with oral shields" would be ambiguous. Now, the quotation marks seem to indicate that this is a specialized term, or an obscure one, and so it is! So why not explain it? The article it is linked to says "An extensively developed oral shield was observed in the northern quoll. The upper and lower lips formed together with the rhinarium, a flattened ring structure that surrounds the buccal opening. The pair of naris appeared like two big holes." One can draw an inference from this, but a clear definition would defs help. --142.163.194.36 (talk) 00:55, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Edits by Special:Contributions/193.119.115.213
This editor continues to make unconstructive edits without justification or comment in two areas.

The first area is in the cladogram where the editor keeps changing it to a form inconsistent with the reference supplied.

The second is to add in an unjustified claim that macropods are biologically similar to rodents. A reference is supplied, but it is bogus (having previously discussed this with the editor when he/she was using a different address). Previous addresses include 193.119.116.137 and 124.168.229.4 from which he/she was blocked for a period. The reference given namely "Bulletin of the American Museum of Natural History, Volume 27, page 382, By Joel Asaph Allen" does not discuss anything of relevance on that page, it was not written by Allen, and Allen never contributed to that volume. See for a copy of that volume and page.

I am reverting once more, after that I will have to report this editor. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 10:56, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Revert and report; IP's edits at Cuscus, i.e., an unsourced claim that the cuscus is similar to the lemurs due to convergent evolution, suggests the IP is being used by a LTA vandal who's been making WP:OR edits of no positive value for years.--Mr Fink (talk) 15:37, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Taxonomic history
"In 1816, French zoologist George Cuvier classified all marsupials under the order Marsupialia."

When one refers to the primary source (Le regne animal ... of 1816), Cuvier treats marsupials as a family  rather than an order, within an order "les Carnassiers", including bats, insectivores, carnivores and marsupials (les Marsupiaux), so on first sight both the rank and name are incorrect.

I'd guess that we'd want to include the first use of the name Marsupialia (Illiger (1811) - already in the article), the first use of the rank of order for the clade, and the first recognition of the clade as a sister group to Placentalia/Eutheria (Huxley 1880, as Metatheria?) Lavateraguy (talk) 14:33, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Prototheria indicates that the 3-fold monotreme/marsupial/placental split predates Huxley. Lavateraguy (talk) 14:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Waterhouse (1846) may give enough detail to locate the answers to the questions above. Lavateraguy (talk) 16:26, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 102 Section 5
— Assignment last updated by DoctorBeee (talk) 20:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

"True Hair"?
This article references "true hair", but this sentence is not cited and I can't find anything online that mentioned true hair. Needs to either be better cited or removed. Inndrid (talk) 21:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Citation added.Anaxial (talk) 22:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marsupial