text:
Talk:German camps in occupied Poland during World War II

[Note]
The following passage is printed twice in a row in the introduction. Please delete one copy: "The camp system was one of the key instruments of terror, while at the same time providing necessary labour for the German war economy." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100E:B051:4C7B:D816:89C1:8ED7:F0CE (talk) 22:23, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Untitled
I have written a new article so all this old talk can be archived. Adam 09:42, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Good page, balanced and objective. So here you have some support from a somebody with Polish roots! Pkmink 09:57, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate that. Perhaps you can try to persuade the other Polish Wikipedians of this. Adam 10:00, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No, I won't do that..too much fuss..waste of time if they happen to be the extreme-right version of nationalist. Pkmink 10:06, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The name of this article would seem to encompass POW camps as well, so they ought to be included as an additional category. --Zero 12:04, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I don't believe the Germans would have fed and housed 400,000 Polish POWs for five years while enslaving the rest of the country. From what I have seen so far, after 1941 they stopped treating Poles as POWs, except possibly officers, and packed them off to labour camps. They stopped giving lists of Polish POWs to the ICRC in 1940. I don't think there were distinctly POW camps after 1941. Adam 12:21, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The title is "Camps in Poland" not "Camps for Poles", so it includes camps used for Russian POWs and others. Strictly speaking, the title also includes Russian camps used to keep Germans and Poles as well, so long as they were in Poland at some stage of WW2. --Zero 13:31, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm not aware that there were POW camps for anyone in Poland, although I suppose some of the camps for Allied POWs may have been in areas which the Germans annexed in 1939. There were presumably temporary Soviet camps for German POWs in Poland in 1944-45, but they shipped them off to Siberia fairly quickly. If you have info on these topics feel free to add it - but not just lists of Polish placenamed please. Adam 13:49, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Later: OK, there was a major POW camp (for western Allies POWs) at Thorn (Torun) and another at Lodz, plus a couple of smaller ones at Wolstein north of Lodz and at Schilberg west of Bydgoszcz. I will add some text to that effect. Adam 14:00, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Very large numbers of Russian POWs were held by the Germans in Polish territory and many died there. Maybe they were the largest group except Jews so they deserve a mention. However I don't have names and numbers at my fingertips and don't have time for the research at the moment. --Zero 15:04, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Congrats Adam, you've made a very good encyclopedia entry! That was the whole point of my reversals: one is not supposed to delete information without giving something in exchange. And it was my only POV in this respect, since I am not an expert in the topic, nether of Poland nor of camps. Mikkalai 18:37, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"Poles (defined both as citizens of Poland regardless nationality and Polish nationals of other citizenship)"

What does this mean? How can one be a Polish national of other citizenship? In English a "Polish national" is the same thing as a "Polish citizen." Does "Polish national" in this sentence mean "a person of Polish race / ethnicity / language"? or what? Adam 08:04, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * You are right. I am confusing these terms even in my native language. Mikkalai 16:55, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Adam, nice work. Once comment though: Auschwitz certainly, and to a lesser degree Majdanek and Treblinka, were also concentration camps, as we well as extermination camps, whereas Chelmno, Belzec, and Sobibor existed solely for the purposes of extermination. Danny 21:57, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Danny. I think I said something to that effect re Auschwitz. I will add something about the other two. Adam 22:02, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Proposed title change
Current title "Camps in Poland during World War II" is historically incorrect and too ambiguous. Poland, as a country, didn't exist during the WWII - it was: conquered, partitioned, and occupied by Nazi German and Soviet Union. Northern, Western, and South Western pre-WWII territories were incorporated into the Reich, the central part was turned into German-run slave state called General Government, while Eastern parts were, until June 1941, occupied by Soviet Union. Extermination camps: Auschwitz, Chelmno, and Stutthof, etc., were located in territories incorporated into the Reich. Most of the remaining listed camps were located in General Government. Article's title ought to reflect its content and, similarly to List of German WWII POW camps, should be renamed as: "Nazi Camps in Occupied Poland during WWII", or, "Nazi Camps in German-Occupied WWII Poland". --Ttyre 20:21, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree, the title should be changed. Also it links from the “List of Camps for Poles” in that case also camps not situated in Poland should be added as e.g. Ravensbruck. Therefore the title should specify better, what the article refers to. (Good article BTW) --SylwiaS 16:55, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with the title change. However, saying that Poland didn't exist is incorrect: unlike legitimate government of France, for example, Polish government never surrendered and Polish government in exile commanded hunderds of thousands of soldiers. And in the very occupied Poland itself there was a Polish Secret State. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 09:08, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There are many individuals and institutions — some of them Polish — that, from ignorance, malice or opportunism, are happy to blacken Poland's reputation. One of the biggest problems is with part of the world press persisting in referring to World War II "Polish death camps." The shortest, clearest, most informative expression should be found to disambiguate this topic once and for all. logologist 14:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think the best title is Nazi Camps in Occupied Poland during WWII and it should be acceptable. Vuvar1 14:40, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * IMO the word "Nazi" makes the word "occupied" and/or "during WWII" unnecessary, so I'm for a shorter title:  Nazi camps in Poland (or Nazi camps in occupied Poland, if someone is afraid that someone else may conclude that there were Polish Nazis). mikka (t) 22:35, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I gave the article this name in an attempt to create a politically neutral title. We should not recognise the Nazi-Soviet dismemberment of Poland. The title should be read as referring to "camps within the pre-1939 boundaries of Poland." This would include Auschwitz etc but exclude Ravensbruck, which was in pre-1939 Germany and was not a "camp for Poles," even if Poles were sent there. There was in any case no such thing as a camp exclusively for Poles. I think the name should stay. Adam 23:30, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I know very well that there were no camps exclusively for Poles. That’s why I clicked the link to the List of Concentration Camps for Poles with great interest and then I found this article. I understand that you wanted to create an article for geographical clarification, but still I wouldn’t consider the title politically neutral. While I’d prefer not to recognize the Nazi-Soviet dismemberment of Poland, I can hardly forget it and these camps are one of best memory refreshments. I know that you may think us oversensitive about this, but even Polish government officially asked not to use descriptions like that. Not everyone is an excellent historian and there is more and more people, who don’t read articles carefully and with situations like that one in the USA, where on every three mentions of camps in media one says the camps were in Poland or even Polish, some people start thinking that Nazis were of Polish origin. I know that you don’t think so, but please, consider the title change. --SylwiaS 02:08, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have never heard any suggestion of anyone thinking that the camps were run by Poles. But if you think this is an issue I suppose it could be Camps in Occupied Poland during World War II. Adam 02:22, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding. Unfortunately it is an issue. Please, read this (an example of a request for correctness) http://www.jewishmuseum.org.pl/index.php?page=1011000001 --SylwiaS 03:30, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) Sorry, it doesn’t link to the exact place. Please, click “news” and then “The American Jewish Committee appeals for the historical truth.” --SylwiaS 03:38, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * IMHO this article is not needed at all. IMO it should simply be merged with German concentration camps and concentration camp or some other article. Halibutt 11:48, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

The article was felt necessary to counter the mass of false and grossly POV material it replaced at various Polish-martyrdom articles such List of Concentration Camps for Poles. I think it contains useful information, such as the important distinction between extermination camps, concentration camps, labour camps and POW camps, which your titles ignore. Adam 12:07, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, I do remember all of those "Polish martyrdom" articles. Perhaps merging them into one article was a good choice, but still I fail to see the need to duplicate the info that has already been added to:
 * German concentration camps
 * Nazi concentration camps
 * Extermination camp
 * Concentration camp
 * World War II atrocities in Poland
 * ... and perhaps some more articles. Halibutt 12:48, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Halibutt to eventually incorporate it into existing other articles. But for now renaming would be the easiest and fastest way to deal with this article. How about "Nazi Camps in Occupied Poland"? --Ttyre 22:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest Nazi concentration camps in occupied Poland. As long as there is no redirect, anybody can move the article - just click move next to edit, type in the new name and move at will. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 30 June 2005 14:28 (UTC)

'''If you READ THE ARTICLE, you would know that they were NOT all "concentration camps." The WHOLE POINT of this article to explain the difference between extermination camps, concentration camps, labour camps and POW camps. THIS NEW TITLE IS WRONG AND MUST BE CHANGED.''' Adam 30 June 2005 14:56 (UTC)

I have removed the word "concentration" from the title. Adam 3 July 2005 10:30 (UTC)

 * And I thought that the difference between extermination camps, concentration camps, labour camps and POW camps should be explained in article on The Holocaust, but apparently I was wrong. But if so, then we have a duplicate info... Halibutt July 8, 2005 06:32 (UTC)

Jewish Polish History template
Removed Template:JewishPolishHistory - inmates in the German camps in occupied Poland were not only Jewish (Polish or from the rest of the Europe) but also Slavs (Poles, Russians, etc.), Gypsies, etc. Reference to the History of the Jews in Poland is probably enough. --Ttyre 6 July 2005 13:09 (UTC)

I would have thought that the murder of 90% of Polish Jews in three years was a pretty major event in Polish Jewish history, wouldn't you? Adam 6 July 2005 13:15 (UTC)

No question about that... but "stamping" this with the template would be similar to the Polish communists' (1945-1989) claims re. Auschwitz camp in reverse. I think wiki has enough ways to point readers to other related articles such as: "categories", "see also", internal links, etc. --Ttyre 6 July 2005 14:07 (UTC)

 * Ttyre don't be goofy, "Jews" do not "equal" "Polish communists" in this case (poor logic on your part here and insulting too), besides, many pages have more than one template in any case... IZAK 7 July 2005 08:42 (UTC)

No insult intended... Germany's Nazis camps in occupied Poland are part of the history of many nations, ethnic and religious groups. Adding here, if they would exist, similar templates for Germany, Gypsies, Russia, etc. would make this, or any other wiki page, less and less readable. Jews equal Polish communists? I had fought you knew about the "official" history of Auschwitz during the communist era in Poland (mostly Poles died there). Also, I have already made a comment about your template but let me repeat it here. Since the name of this article is "German camps in occupied Poland during World War II" why are you using a term "Holocaust camps"? why not to say Germany's Nazis camps instead? What's the definition of the "Holocaust camps" anyway? are the concentration, labor, and POW camps included in this term? Maybe Adam, a major contributor to this article, should voice his opinion here. --Ttyre 7 July 2005 09:59 (UTC)

 * Ttyre: Stop fudging. The majority of Poland's, and Europe's, Jews were murdered in Poland's "camps" (in all their types, especially the death camps), it was almost a total genocide of the Jews and that is why it's called the Holocaust of the Jews by the world. Yes, many Poles died at the hands of the Germans, especially former Polish officers and soldiers, but the general Polish population did not suffer a "holocaust" at all, on the contrary, as long as they did not resist the Nazis, the Polish people were allowed to go on with "life as usual" and in many cases they were more than happy to get rid of the Jews and live in their houses and take over their domains (proof of this is that they refused to hand back Jewish property to some of the previous Jewish owners that survived). It is time that the Polish people stopped pretending to be the "victim" and face up to the truth and facts of history. IZAK 7 July 2005 16:06 (UTC)
 * Izak - "the Holocaust of the Jews by the world. Yes, many Poles died at the hands of the Germans, especially former Polish officers and soldiers, but the general Polish population did not suffer a "holocaust"
 * about 3 million non-Jewish Poles died in the 2ww - and how many milions of Slavs (20-25 millions??)
 * "It is time that the Polish people stopped pretending to be the "victim" and face up to the truth and facts of history."
 * Yes.. its time for the Jewish people to do the same... --Witkacy 7 July 2005 21:43 (UTC)

Splitters and wreckers
As someone who has put in a lot of work on this article, and who is neither Polish nor German nor Jewish nor a communist, I won't allow petty Polish-Jewish-German-nationalist-zionist-communist-whateverist feuds to wreck it, OK? Constructive edits will be accepted, wrecking edits will be reverted. Adam 8 July 2005 00:29 (UTC)

 * Arbitrary reverts will be reverted as well. For instance, how come the camps created by Germans for Jews are not part of German-Jewish history, as your edits seem to suggest? Halibutt July 8, 2005 06:36 (UTC)

I would have thought that "German-Jewish history" is the history of German Jews. But I don't care sufficiently to argue the point. My edits were intended to reinstate the "Jewish-Polish history" category, which Witkacy has been busily deleting. I don't mind both categories appearing. Adam 8 July 2005 07:03 (UTC)

need source for strong claim
"None of the death camps lasted more than eighteen months." - I'm not sure this is correct, even taking into consideration the distinction between "concentration camp" and "death camp". I think at least Majdanek was in operation for quite some time. Tagging.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Comment on File:WW2-Holocaust-Poland.PNG
Received the following comment via OTRS 2011061410012349. I'm just the messenger.--Chaser (talk) 01:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Greetings, regarding the above (and related sites with the same map titled Holocaust)

The image is not "editable" but the these pages and the map should always refer to the S*econd World War and** the Holocaus*t. The genocide happened within the context of the war. By the time the extermination camps were built in late 1941 and 42 (most operational for up to 18 months then blown up) millions died in the concentration camps, forced labor camps, detention camps, and prisons.

For the same reason, the organization of the type of camps should be arranged in the following order:

German designations: *Konzentrationslager, Arbeitslager, Vernichtungslager, Sonderkommando SS, Zwangsarbeitslager, Aufenthaltslagers, Durchgangslager, Transitlager, Schutzhaftlager, Familienlager, Internierungslager* etc.

(the latest estimates are that in the Reich - Germany and occupied Poland /*mostly in the occupied territories*/ there were 12 thousand camps. In occupied Poland there were over 430 major complexes. The  4 death camps "proper" (plus 2

(*W latach 1933 -45władze nazistowskie  III Rzeszyzorganizowały na własnym terytorium oraz na ziemiach państw okupowanych zespół przynajmniej 12 tysięcy obozów i podobozów kierowanych przez SA, a później SS , policjęi Wehrmacht .

problematic article
From its very title, this remains a problematic article.

For starters, I have moved the external link from the SEE ALSO section into an External Link section.

It remains surprising that there was no section for External Links given the topic.

It is troubling that there is no equivalent in any other language - not even a direct translation. Given the use of Kommando groups, open slaughter and secret slaughter, an article on camps might as easily be a list linking to the articles on main camps. Many of those camps already have a list article for their sub-camps.

Even the article on kidnapping of children in the area has at least a Polish equivalent.

"German camps" is an almost laughable term for its utter, innocent vagueness and is a standing invitation to revisionists given the utter illegality of all that transpired being brought under this bland, vague heading. How are you to exclude "German Army camps", "German SS Panzer camps" ? The very term "camp" is inadequate in at least one, very significant case of a complex of institutionalized human slaughter, extermination and incineration.

The second foolishness concerns the term "Occupied" : after Barbarossa, what had been "German-occupied" ceased to describe the area in question. Was it considered to use the terms "Nazi General Government of annexed and occupied Polish territory during WWII" as the GG often directed the construction of facilities? Furthermore, what was then "Poland" at the end of 1941 is not now "Poland" in what concerns the east : after all, we are dealing with boundaries from 1921 - a mere twenty years - and on territory recently both Lithuanian and Ukrainian at that time.

The third is the use of "German" for "Nazi". Fourth: some former territory was annexed, some was "occupied". This is the only wp article with "German camps ..." yet there were installations outside former Polish territory or "territory claimed by the Polish Underground Forces" yet also not the post-WWII "Poland".

Is there a single WP editor in the English language who would contest that these were areas under "Illegal Occupation" - and that they were first and foremost Nazi installations.

Was "Illegal Nazi ..." considered and rejected? To do so is to contribute to the sort of George W. Bush view that there is no international law - a fiction.

The article on Hans Frank uses the expression "occupied Poland's 'General Government' territory".

The article on Krueger uses the expression " in the part of German-occupied Poland called the General Government."

G. Robert Shiplett 00:04, 12 December 2012 (UTC) --Grshiplett (talk • contribs) 10:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

 * If you have any concrete suggestions for improving this article, please make them. Your arguments above deal almost exclusively with the title of the article. Article titles must conform to WP:NPOV as with all other material on Wikipedia. Illegal Nazi camps in occupied Poland during World War II would a blatant violation of this policy. The fact is that Poland was occupied by the German army, not technically by the Nazi party, and why does not including the word "illegal" in the title automatically make the article pro-Nazi? If you have a reliable source that states that the camps were illegal, then you can add the citation "Legal historian Joe Bloggs has maintained in his book Illegal Nazi camps in Occupied Poland during World War II that the camps themselves were criminal in nature" or something to that effect. Is the word "crime" being used in the opening to describe what happened in the camps not enough?
 * I have noticed you seem to post a lot on talk pages and blow "problems" out of proportion, but you don't seem to consider Wikipedia policies when doing so. I recommend you familiarize yourself with the five pillars as soon as possible.
 * elvenscout742 (talk) 07:52, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

See Also section revised
The See Also section has been changed to try to bring balance to this article by way of context. No link on Tannenberg is inexcusable. With the Katyn Massacre so long blamed on Gestapo, why would that link not be included.

Should there not also be a link to events in the western areas post-1945 ? History is not about "agreement" any more than it is about viewing a topic in isolation. Without a SEE ALSO for events from 1945 to 1953 in the "new" territory, a great deal of context is lost.

The link to history of Poland should be a replaced by a link to post-WWI Poland as that is the context. There is no link to Lithuania or Western Ukraine or Belorusse which I view as deplorable but would be partially corrected by a link to Poland 1918 - 1921. Or the context is lost on a young reader.

G. Robert Shiplett 00:45, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

"Backbone" of the economy
This quote seems like an extraordinary claim: "During the course of World War II, the camps served as the backbone of German war economy." It's not supported in the body or by a specific citation. Wouldn't German industry have been the backbone of the war economy? If anything, the camp system was underutilized as a source of labor, as millions were simply starved to death or murdered on arrival. Forced labour under German rule during World War II gives a peak number of 20% of the labor force. I think the existing assertion needs some more WP:RS, or more accurate phrasing. Qzd (talk) 22:54, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks for noticing. The above statement needs further clarification for sure. But the labour camps varied greatly. Prisoners were used in many different ways including by Deutsche Wirtschaftsbetriebe, Ostindustrie, Organisation Todt but also in actual real factories making Kriegslokomotive, building rockets, and fixing air-planes. Regarding Forced labour under German rule during World War II article, Wikipedia alone is not a WP:RS as you already know. I will look into this,  Poeticbent  talk

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Waldemar Grabowski
Seems like a reliable historian, through seems like a minor popular science/history/news outlet. But Grabowski has published on similar topics in more academic venues like. I don't think his claims are particularly WP:REDFLAG, fringe or otherwise, to be removed on sight (but I concur with removal of some claims attributed to him that are not in the source, doh, like ). That said, I am sure we can find better statistics by senior scholars in reliable sources. Ping User:MyMoloboaccount. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:56, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The quoted text comes probably from the book below.Xx236 (talk) 09:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

The victims
The numbers are still controversial. Methodological problems should be listed, e.g. border changes, lack of documents and demographic data. A cursory census was organised in 1946 and a precise one only in 1950, after massive population transfers. Numbers of victims include Poles killed by Ukrainians and Ukrainians killed by Poles. Probably the most reliable source is Wojciech Materski and Tomasz Szarota, ''Polska 1939–1945. Straty osobowe i ofiary represji pod dwiema okupacjami (Poland, 1939–1945: Human Losses and Victims of Repression under Two Occupations), Institute of National Remembrance (IPN''), Warsaw, 2009, ISBN 978-83-7629-067-6, reprinted in 2019. . Xx236 (talk) 08:58, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Monuments and museums, research, accounts

 * I believe that monuments and museums should be mentioned (perhaps a separate page is needed). There is a problem of borders, some camps like Gross-Rosen concentration camp existed in Germany proper or Free City of Danzig.
 * Post-war research should be described, eg. KZ-Syndrome. here only Survivor guilt, which isn't exactly the same = Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. http://www.psychiatriapolska.pl/uploads/onlinefirst/Rutkowski_PsychiatrPolOnlineFirstNr21.pdf
 * Accounts should be summarised, eg. texts by Tadeusz Borowski and Stanisław Grzesiuk.Xx236 (talk) 09:23, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Transfers of prisoners - Many Polish citizens were imprisoned outside Poland and many foreigners were transfered to camps in Poland.
 * Prisons - Nazi prisons were sometimes comparable with concentration camps.Xx236 (talk) 09:57, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Underground - there existed an organisation in Auschwitz and one in Treblinka (Treblinka prisoner uprising).Xx236 (talk) 10:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Guards.Xx236 (talk) 10:03, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Kapos.Xx236 (talk) 07:17, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

"Organisation Schmelt" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Organisation Schmelt. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. buidh<b style="color: White">e</b> 08:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:50, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Krychów forced labour camp 1940 (Krowie Bagno).jpg


text:
Gross-Rosen concentration camp

Gross-Rosen was a network of Nazi concentration camps built and operated by Nazi Germany during World War II. The main camp was located in the German village of Gross-Rosen, now the modern-day Rogoźnica in Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland, directly on the rail-line between the towns of Jawor (Jauer) and Strzegom (Striegau). Its prisoners were mostly Jews, Poles and Soviet citizens.

At its peak activity in 1944, the Gross-Rosen complex had up to 100 subcamps located in eastern Germany and in German-occupied Czechoslovakia and Poland. The population of all Gross-Rosen camps at that time accounted for 11% of the total number of inmates incarcerated in the Nazi concentration camp system.

The camp
KZ Gross-Rosen was set up in the summer of 1940 as a satellite camp of the Sachsenhausen concentration camp from Oranienburg. Initially, the slave labour was carried out in a huge stone quarry owned by the SS-Deutsche Erd- und Steinwerke GmbH (SS German Earth and Stone Works). In the fall of 1940 the use of labour in Upper Silesia was taken over by the new Organization Schmelt formed on the orders of Heinrich Himmler. It was named after its leader SS-Oberführer Albrecht Schmelt. The company was put in charge of employment from the camps with Jews intended to work for food only.

The Gross-Rosen location close to occupied Poland was of considerable advantage. Prisoners were put to work in the construction of a system of subcamps for expellees from the annexed territories. Gross Rosen became an independent camp on 1 May 1941. As the complex grew, the majority of inmates were put to work in the new Nazi enterprises attached to these subcamps.

In October 1941 the SS transferred about 3,000 Soviet POWs to Gross-Rosen for execution by shooting. Gross-Rosen was known for its brutal treatment of the so-called Nacht und Nebel prisoners vanishing without a trace from targeted communities. Most died in the granite quarry. The brutal treatment of the political and Jewish prisoners was not only in the hands of guards and German criminal prisoners brought in by the SS, but to a lesser extent also fuelled by the German administration of the stone quarry responsible for starvation rations and denial of medical help. In 1942, for political prisoners, the average survival time-span was less than two months.

Due to a change of policy in August 1942, prisoners were likely to survive longer because they were needed as slave workers in German war industries. Among the companies that benefited from the slave labour of the concentration camp inmates were German electronics manufacturers such as Blaupunkt, Siemens, as well as Krupp, IG Farben, and Daimler-Benz, among others. Some prisoners who were not able to work but not yet dying were sent to the Dachau concentration camp in so-called invalid transports.

The largest population of inmates, however, were Jews, initially from the Dachau and Sachsenhausen camps, and later from Buchenwald. During the camp's existence, the Jewish inmate population came mainly from Poland and Hungary; others were from Belgium, France, Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Slovakia, and Italy.

Following the unsuccessful Polish Warsaw Uprising of 1944, the Germans deported 3,000 Poles from the Dulag 121 camp in Pruszków, where they were initially imprisoned, to Gross-Rosen. Those Poles were mainly people of 20 to 40 years of age.

Subcamps
At its peak activity in 1944, the Gross-Rosen complex had up to 100 subcamps, located in eastern Germany and German-occupied Czechoslovakia and Poland. In its final stage, the population of the Gross-Rosen camps accounted for 11% of the total inmates in Nazi concentration camps at that time. A total of 125,000 inmates of various nationalities passed through the complex during its existence, of whom an estimated 40,000 died on site, on death marches and in evacuation transports. The camp was liberated on 14 February 1945 by the Red Army. A total of over 500 female camp guards were trained and served in the Gross-Rosen complex. Female SS staffed the women's subcamps of Brünnlitz, Graeben, Gruenberg, Gruschwitz Neusalz, Hundsfeld, Kratzau II, Oberaltstadt, Reichenbach, and Schlesiersee Schanzenbau.

The Gabersdorf labour camp had been part of a network of forced labor camps for Jewish prisoners that had operated under Organization Schmelt since 1941. The spinning mill where the female Jewish prisoners worked had been "Aryanized" in 1939 by a Vienna-based company called Vereinigte Textilwerke K. H. Barthel & Co. The prisoners also worked in factories operated by the companies Aloys Haase and J. A. Kluge und Etrich. By 18 March 1944 Gabersdorf had become a subcamp of Gross-Rosen.

One subcamp of Gross-Rosen was the Brünnlitz labor camp, situated in the Czechoslovakian town of Brněnec, where Jews rescued by Oskar Schindler were interned.

The Brieg subcamp, located near the village of Pampitz, had originally been the location of a Jewish forced labor camp until August 1944, when the Jewish prisoners were replaced by the first transport of prisoners from the Gross-Rosen main camp. The camp was mostly staffed by soldiers from the Luftwaffe and a few SS members. Most of the prisoners were Polish, with smaller numbers of Russian and Czech prisoners. Most of the Poles had been evacuated from the Pawiak prison in Warsaw; others had been arrested within the territory controlled by the Reich or had been transported from Kraków and Radom.

Brieg's camp kitchen was run by Czech prisoners. The three daily meals included 1 pint of mehlzupa (a soup made from water and meal), 150 grams of bread, 1 quart of soup made with rutabaga, beets, cabbage, kale or sometimes nettles, 1 pint of black "coffee" and a spoonful of molasses. Sometimes "hard workers" called zulaga would be rewarded with a piece of blood sausage or raw horsemeat sausage, jam and margarine. Prisoners also received 1 cup of Knorr soup per week.

Camp commandants
During the Gross-Rosen initial period of operation as a formal subcamp of Sachsenhausen, the following two SS Lagerführer officers served as the camp commandants, the SS-Untersturmführer Anton Thumann, and SS-Untersturmführer Georg Güßregen. From May 1941 until liberation, the following officials served as commandants of a fully independent concentration camp at Gross-Rosen:
 * 1) SS-Obersturmbannführer Arthur Rödl, May 1941 – September 1942
 * 2) SS-Hauptsturmführer Wilhelm Gideon, September 1942 – October 1943
 * 3) SS-Sturmbannführer Johannes Hassebroek, October 1943 until evacuation

War crimes trial
On 12 August 1948, the trial of three Gross Rosen camp officials, Johannes Hassebroek, Helmut Eschner and Eduard Drazdauskas, began before a Soviet Military Court. On 7 October 1948, all were found guilty of war crimes. Eschner and Drazdauskas were sentenced to life imprisonment and Hassebroek was sentenced to death, but this was later commuted also to life imprisonment.

List of Gross-Rosen camps with location
The most far-reaching expansion of the Gross-Rosen system of labour camps took place in 1944 due to accelerated demand for support behind the advancing front. The character and purpose of new camps shifted toward defense infrastructure. In some cities, as in Wrocław (Breslau) camps were established in every other district. It is estimated that their total number reached 100 at that point according to list of their official destinations. The biggest sub-camps included AL Fünfteichen in Jelcz-Laskowice, four camps in Wrocław, Dyhernfurth in Brzeg Dolny, Landeshut in Kamienna Góra, and the entire Project Riese along the Owl Mountains.

Notable inmates

 * Boris Braun, Croatian university professor
 * Simon Wiesenthal, Nazi hunter. He provides the following information about the camp in his 1967 book The Murderers Among Us:
 * "... healthy looking prisoners were selected to break in new shoes for soldiers on daily twenty mile marches. Few prisoners survived this ordeal for more than two weeks."

 * Władysław Ślebodziński, mathematician who taught prisoners
 * Shlomo Zev Zweigenhaft, Rosh Hashochtim of Poland and Chief Rabbi of Hannover and Lower Saxony
 * József Debreczeni, author of the memoir, Cold Crematorium
 * Franciszek Duszeńko, sculptor, maker of the Treblinka Monument
 * Adam Dulęba, Polish Army photographer
 * Heda Margolius Kovály, Czech writer and translator
 * Philip Markowicz, author of the memoir, My Three Lives
 * Lucian Ludwig Kozminski, convicted in the United States of swindling Holocaust survivors of their restitution money and alleged collaborator
 * Adolphe Rabinovitch, Special Operations Executive officer.
 * Henri Story, Belgian business man, politician and resistance member
 * Paul Löbe, former president of the German Reichstag
 * Gertruda Sekaninová-Čakrtová, Czechoslovak politician (imprisoned at Kurzbach subcamp)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Gross-Rosen concentration camp


text:
Talk:Lanzarote

Comments
This page needs to discuss Cesar Manrique who is responsible for the maintenance of the Islands heritage in the face of increased tourism. Thanks to him the islands strict constitution restricts high rise developments, stipulates the colour of the houses (traditionally white and green) and bans bill boards. He also created most of the islands features including: Mirador del Rio, Jameos del Agua, Jardin de Cactus and his home (Funcacion Cessar Manrique) is now a museum to his own and his friends works, including Picasso, Miro, Chillida and Klee. There are also a number of his statues ("wind-toys") on the centre of roundabouts throughout the island, which forms an almost ironic statement due to his death in a car accident.

Cesar Manrique
translate : César Manrique.Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 01:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Flag?
Second paragraph tells that the flag is "split diagonally from top-left to bottom-right." But the flag shown in the history paragraph is split from bottom-left to top-right. Which one is correct?

Volcano?
Why was the table or grid at the right hand side of this page added? (added after 22 May 2005). It implies that the whole island is a volcano. Geologically speaking, this may be the case, but having things like "first ascent" and "climb" don't really make sense when this is an island which *contains* a volcano, it is not solely a volcano. If you ask anyone what they think Lanzarote is, they will tell you that it's an island - and a popular tourist island as well.(NJ)

Why do take exception with the fact that the whole island is geologically speaking a volcano? Just because parts of it are either covered by the result of human habitation or old lava does not mean it is no longer a volcano. It last erupted in 1834, and the 1730 to 1736 eruption remains as a percentage -25%, of the land covered by basaltic lavas in a single eruption, the largest the world has witness. If you doubt that think of the USA - the 48 states, and imagine 12 of those being covered by basalt. That is why it is the worlds largest by area covered. As regards it being a volcano - the whole island is. Parts may be considered extinct centres, but the Lanzarote volcano is an active dormant volcano.

Lanzarote is Junonia
Who the hell has stated that Junonia in Pliny the Elder is Palma and not Lanzarote (together with Fuerteventura)?

Proof 1:

Pliny mentions: "etiam spatia complexus Iunoniam abesse ad Gadibus DCCL p. tradit, ab ea tantundem ad occasum versus Pluvialiam Capriaramque".

Palma is the westernmost island of the Canaries and therefore in the west of Junonia there is no island of the Canaries (no Pluvialia and no Capriaria).

Proof 2: In Claudy Ptolemy the O-meridian is set through the westernmost island of the known world and this was through the Canaries. That means through Palma. But according to Ptolemy two islands of the Canaries are not in the 0-meridian but on the 1-meridian in the direction of Mauretanian coast and these are Lanzarote and Fuerteventura (Iunonia) and Gran Canaria (Canaria).

Addendum:

Three islands on the archipelago are special concerning divine relations through volcanic activity - one of them Lanzarote. Therefore it is fundamentally clear thar there a temple should be for reverence towards the deity Iuno. QED

Merge La Geria and Lanzarote
I've proposed these two articles be merged. (Most of the La Gería article is a copy-paste from what is already in the Lanzarote article.) Kathy A. 15:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Given the BIG differences between the two islands perhaps two seperate articles are appropriate. They should not be merged - they should be two articles with different content. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lanzarotemaps (talk • contribs) 00:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Lanzarote Street Maps
I added a link to our web site www.lanzarotemaps.co.uk - having lived here for over three years I know how hard it is for residents to find their way around (let alone tourists!). The link was blocked and I was advised to add a discussion here. Since we only sell advertising on the maps in Lanzarote and the main site use is a resource for visitors (and free to use!) I don't see why it's not allowed. Comments? Lanzarotemaps 15:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)lanzarotemaps

 * Your site is just an advertising honeytrap, regurgitating Google Maps data with a garnish of targeted advertising. It adds nothing to the article and it's in direct contravention of our policy on spam. Your username suggests you are only here to add links to your website, which makes you a single-purpose account with a conflict of interest. Don't re-insert the link (or any like it, in this article or any other) or you will be blocked from editing; if you want to improve our articles I suggest you take a look at our tutorial pages and familiarise yourself with our policies, then concentrate on adding neutral content to articles, rather than external links. Cheers, --YFB ¿  16:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

So what does someone need to do to put their link in External Links??? If the resource is useful to visitors (and our page at www.lanzarotemaps.co.uk/popularsearches.asp show that people reaching the site ARE looking for particular businesses) why cannot it be allowed?? This seems like an arbitary decision. Explain. As for my username, since my focus was Lanzarote it made sense to use a name related to my Lanzaorte interests so that I could remember it. Does this mean that if I chose the name LANZAROTEBISEXUAL I would be barred from posting content relevant to Bisexuals in Lanzarote ??? Cheers - Nick.

And also the Climate of Lanzarote link has LOTS of adverts on it as well; why is that allowed but the maps one isn't? Seems very inconsistent to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.38.88 (talk) 21:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

AND the arial photos link has a google ad panel before any other content .... PLUS it has a google panel down the side AND Google ads underneath the photos when you click them. There are lots of sites which offer arial views of Lanzarote without ANY advertising so what was wrong with my link. BTW, if you look at my history page I think you'll find that I post on a wide variety of topics so your "single purpose account" comment is absolute nonsense. I don't live on the island anymore and would like this issue of link removal discussed in more detail rather than an arbitary decision by ONE user that the link isn't relevant. Lanzarotemaps (talk) 23:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Ironman Lanzarote
Is it me or does that just look like an advertisement for the event? It should be removed in my opinion. Wegason 21:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Even though our search logs show THOUSANDS of visitors looking for this event --- shouldn't they be able to look it up on Wiki and then find information from the offical site as a link? I disagree - leave the text but link to the external site explaining it. Anyway, what's your problem with it looking like an advert - it (together with Las Tres Islas) is MAJOR event on the island with many many people visiting Lanzarote to watch. If the "advert" is there then at least it makes it easy for people to find out more. Or should there be an Iron Man Lanzarote article linked --- is THAT an advert ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lanzarotemaps (talk • contribs) 00:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Fauna and Flora
This artice states that there are many plant species, in which included is 180 species of Lichens. Lichens are not plants and therefore should not be counted in this capacity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.3.32.64 (talk) 18:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

OK - do we *need* to be this petty or is there a way someone could add in brackets that they aren't technically plants?? More content on Cesar Manrique would be more relevant than a discussion on plant/fauna/fungi/lichen status. Once the page has GOOD content it can be refined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lanzarotemaps (talk • contribs) 00:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Climate
Section about climate has been deleted. Lanzarote is a popular tourist destination, would it be useful to revert back to including climate information? Gjm (talk) 19:08, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes it would -- we have several Lanzarote based sites with weather pages and they are amongst the most visited on our network. This page is probably accessed a lot by people wanting to visit the island; ignoring the climate (which is actually quite interesting because of the variations possible on such a small island) is silly. Lanzarotemaps (talk) 00:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Useful reference?
The following reference is about agriculture on Lanzarote - stone mulch etc.

A lot more details on the history of Lanzarote would be useful - with sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.90.12 (talk) 12:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

The stones in La Geria is not lapilli but was lava broken by hard manual work to create an area suitable for growing vines behind low shelters to protect the vines from the NE Trade wind, which blows almost non-stop.

Biosphere Reserve controversy
This bit keeps disappearing:

The island has a UNESCO Biosphere Reserve protected site status. But this status was endangered by a local corruption scandal. Since May 2009 police have arrested the former president of Lanzarote, the former mayor of Arrecife and more than 20 politicians and businessmen in connection with illegal building permits along the Lanzarote's coastline. UNESCO has threatened to revoke Lanzarote's Biosphere Reserve status "If the developments are not respecting local needs and are impacting on the environment".

or rather, it's again and again removed by user:TURISMOLANZAROTE (a user name that pretty much screams conflict of interest). That user has pointed to : the President of the Cabildo of Lanzarote says it ain't so. Maybe somebody with more patience can add this together with some version of the text above.ospalh (talk) 12:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Roman settlement?
Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head mentions a Roman settlement on Lanzarote; is this confirmed? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:30, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories gives a reference that it indicates tells of a long-time Roman settlement there. Kdammers (talk) 16:47, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

fr:Lanzarote
From Europe came the vines with whom will the wine Malvasia (Malmsey wine), favorite wine of the character of William Shakespeare, Falstaff. This wine has left its mark on the landscape: the vines are protected from drying winds by planting in hollows and behind the semicircular walls in stack of raw stones, such as scales, each with a stitched green patch covering the dark volcanic soil. Grape vines nestled in the crater made of lava powder, are sunk deep enough for the roots to reach the topsoil. The night dew restores moisture in the stocks. There are also some vine cabins, named 'taro', built of irregular blocks of volcanic stone. Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 01:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Archeology
I found a webpage with information about archaeology sites on the canary islands. However the text is a little too Spanish for me to understand. Maybe someone else can improve the article with some of this information. http://www.personales.ulpgc.es/patoche.dch/html/excavaciones.html

--VeniVidiVicipedia (talk) 08:29, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100721055639/http://www.turismodecanarias.com/canary-islands-spain/web/photo-image/FOTO_LANZAROTE_PLAYA_FAMARA.html to http://www.turismodecanarias.com/canary-islands-spain/web/photo-image/FOTO_LANZAROTE_PLAYA_FAMARA.html
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Demographics change
Hi all, I've just edited the breakdown of foreign inhabitants in the demographics section so that the numbers are connected to the source given (the 2006 census), and are no longer euro-centric. The previous version made erroneous claims about the percentage of Irish people which was not backed up by the source given. Also, the previous version only mentioned the large population of Moroccans and Columbians living on the island on the next sentence which is not supported by a reference, despite the fact that the 2006 census gave information about these groups. Granted, the first sentence stated that it was only looking at the European nationals, but this seems odd considering the back seat position this forced other, larger groups into. I felt it right to list the nationals in order of largest group size to smallest, and I made it clear that this was all information from the 2006 census to perhaps inspire someone to retrieve a newer version. I also removed the euro-centric introduction to the list.

Youtryandyoutry (talk) 16:41, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Population changes
could you please provide a link to the source for the population figures you edited? Also, why did you feel it was necessary to change the citations for previous population numbers? -- Fyrael (talk) 19:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The figures are released by Instituto Nacional de Estadistica, Madrid, as part of their annual release of demographic data. They are most easily taken online from https://citypopulation.de/en/spain/canarias/. In changing the citations, I replaced the earlier 2019 estimates (now outdated) by the more reliable Census figures for 2021, but also added the most recent estimates for 1.1.2023. Rif Winfield (talk) 09:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lanzarote


text:
World tree

The world tree is a motif present in several religions and mythologies, particularly Indo-European, Siberian, and Native American religions. The world tree is represented as a colossal tree which supports the heavens, thereby connecting the heavens, the terrestrial world, and, through its roots, the underworld. It may also be strongly connected to the motif of the tree of life, but it is the source of wisdom of the ages.

Specific world trees include Égig érő fa in Hungarian mythology, Ağaç Ana in Turkic mythology, Kenac' Car in Armenian mythology, Modun in Mongol mythology, Yggdrasil in Norse mythology, Irminsul in Germanic mythology, the oak in Slavic, Finnish and Baltic, Jianmu in Chinese mythology, and in Hindu mythology the Ashvattha (a Ficus religiosa).

General description
Scholarship states that many Eurasian mythologies share the motif of the "world tree", "cosmic tree", or "Eagle and Serpent Tree". More specifically, it shows up in "Haitian, Finnish, Lithuanian, Hungarian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Norse, Siberian and northern Asian Shamanic folklore".

The World Tree is often identified with the Tree of Life, and also fulfills the role of an axis mundi, that is, a centre or axis of the world. It is also located at the center of the world and represents order and harmony of the cosmos. According to Loreta Senkute, each part of the tree corresponds to one of the three spheres of the world (treetops - heavens; trunk - middle world or earth; roots - underworld) and is also associated with a classical element (top part - fire; middle part - earth, soil, ground; bottom part - water).

Its branches are said to reach the skies and its roots to connect the human or earthly world with an underworld or subterranean realm. Because of this, the tree was worshipped as a mediator between Heavens and Earth. On the treetops are located the luminaries (stars) and heavenly bodies, along with an eagle's nest; several species of birds perch among its branches; humans and animals of every kind live under its branches, and near the root is the dwelling place of snakes and every sort of reptiles.

A bird perches atop its foliage, "often .... a winged mythical creature" that represents a heavenly realm. The eagle seems to be the most frequent bird, fulfilling the role of a creator or weather deity. Its antipode is a snake or serpentine creature that crawls between the tree roots, being a "symbol of the underworld".

The imagery of the World Tree is sometimes associated with conferring immortality, either by a fruit that grows on it or by a springsource located nearby. As George Lechler also pointed out, in some descriptions this "water of life" may also flow from the roots of the tree.

Similar motifs
The World Tree has also been compared to a World Pillar that appears in other traditions and functions as separator between the earth and the skies, upholding the latter. Another representation akin to the World Tree is a separate World Mountain. However, in some stories, the world tree is located atop the world mountain, in a combination of both motifs.

A conflict between a serpentine creature and a giant bird (an eagle) occurs in Eurasian mythologies: a hero kills the serpent that menaces a nest of little birds, and their mother repays the favor - a motif comparativist Julien d'Huy dates to the Paleolithic. A parallel story is attested in the traditions of the indigenous peoples of the Americas, where the thunderbird is slotted into the role of the giant bird whose nest is menaced by a "snake-like water monster".

Relation to shamanism
Romanian historian of religion, Mircea Eliade, in his monumental work Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy, suggested that the world tree was an important element in shamanistic worldview. Also, according to him, "the giant bird ... hatches shamans in the branches of the World Tree". Likewise, Roald Knutsen indicates the presence of the motif in Altaic shamanism. Representations of the world tree are reported to be portrayed in drums used in Siberian shamanistic practices.

Some species of birds (eagle, raven, crane, loon, and lark) are revered as mediators between worlds and also connected to the imagery of the world tree. Another line of scholarship points to a "recurring theme" of the owl as the mediator to the upper realm, and its counterpart, the snake, as the mediator to the lower regions of the cosmos.

Researcher Kristen Pearson mentions Northern Eurasian and Central Asian traditions wherein the World Tree is also associated with the horse and with deer antlers (which might resemble tree branches).

Possible origins
Mircea Eliade proposed that the typical imagery of the world tree (bird at the top, snake at the root) "is presumably of Oriental origin".

Likewise, Roald Knutsen indicates a possible origin of the motif in Central Asia and later diffusion into other regions and cultures.

Indigenous American cultures

 * Among Indigenous Mesoamerican cultures, the concept of "world trees" is a prevalent motif in Mesoamerican cosmologies and iconography. The Temple of the Cross Complex at Palenque contains one of the most studied examples of the world tree in architectural motifs of all Mayan ruins. World trees embodied the four cardinal directions, which represented also the fourfold nature of a central world tree, a symbolic axis mundi connecting the planes of the Underworld and the sky with that of the terrestrial world.
 * Depictions of world trees, both in their directional and central aspects, are found in the art and traditions of cultures such as the Maya, Aztec, Izapan, Mixtec, Olmec, and others, dating to at least the Mid/Late Formative periods of Mesoamerican chronology. Among the Maya, the central world tree was conceived as, or represented by, a ceiba tree, called yax imix che ('blue-green tree of abundance') by the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel. The trunk of the tree could also be represented by an upright caiman, whose skin evokes the tree's spiny trunk. These depictions could also show birds perched atop the trees.
 * A similarly named tree, yax cheel cab ('first tree of the world'), was reported by 17th-century priest Andrés de Avendaño to have been worshipped by the Itzá Maya. However, scholarship suggests that this worship derives from some form of cultural interaction between "pre-Hispanic iconography and [millenary] practices" and European traditions brought by the Hispanic colonization.
 * Directional world trees are also associated with the four Yearbearers in Mesoamerican calendars, and the directional colors and deities. Mesoamerican codices which have this association outlined include the Dresden, Borgia and Fejérváry-Mayer codices. It is supposed that Mesoamerican sites and ceremonial centers frequently had actual trees planted at each of the four cardinal directions, representing the quadripartite concept.
 * World trees are frequently depicted with birds in their branches, and their roots extending into earth or water (sometimes atop a "water-monster", symbolic of the underworld).
 * The central world tree has also been interpreted as a representation of the band of the Milky Way.
 * Izapa Stela 5 contains a possible representation of a world tree.

A common theme in most indigenous cultures of the Americas is a concept of directionality (the horizontal and vertical planes), with the vertical dimension often being represented by a world tree. Some scholars have argued that the religious importance of the horizontal and vertical dimensions in many animist cultures may derive from the human body and the position it occupies in the world as it perceives the surrounding living world. Many Indigenous cultures of the Americas have similar cosmologies regarding the directionality and the world tree, however the type of tree representing the world tree depends on the surrounding environment. For many Indigenous American peoples located in more temperate regions for example, it is the spruce rather than the ceiba that is the world tree; however the idea of cosmic directions combined with a concept of a tree uniting the directional planes is similar.

Greek mythology
Like in many other Indo-European cultures, one tree species was considered the World Tree in some cosmogonical accounts.

Oak tree
The sacred tree of Zeus is the oak, and the one at Dodona (famous for the cultic worship of Zeus and the oak) was said by later tradition to have its roots furrow so deep as to reach the confines of Tartarus.

In a different cosmogonic account presented by Pherecydes of Syros, male deity Zas (identified as Zeus) marries female divinity Chthonie (associated with the earth and later called Gê/Gaia), and from their marriage sprouts an oak tree. This oak tree connects the heavens above and its roots grew into the Earth, to reach the depths of Tartarus. This oak tree is considered by scholarship to symbolize a cosmic tree, uniting three spheres: underworld, terrestrial and celestial.

Other trees
Besides the oak, several other sacred trees existed in Greek mythology. For instance, the olive, named Moriai, was the world tree and associated with the Olympian goddess Athena.

In a separate Greek myth the Hesperides live beneath an apple tree with golden apples that was given to the highest Olympian goddess Hera by the primal Mother goddess Gaia at Hera's marriage to Zeus. The tree stands in the Garden of the Hesperides and is guarded by Ladon, a dragon. Heracles defeats Ladon and snatches the golden apples.

In the epic quest for the Golden Fleece of Argonautica, the object of the quest is found in the realm of Colchis, hanging on a tree guarded by a never-sleeping dragon (the Colchian dragon). In a version of the story provided by Pseudo-Apollodorus in Bibliotheca, the Golden Fleece was affixed by King Aeetes to an oak tree in a grove dedicated to war god Ares. This information is repeated in Valerius Flaccus's Argonautica. In the same passage of Valerius Flaccus' work, King Aeetes prays to Ares for a sign and suddenly a "serpent gliding from the Caucasus mountains" appears and coils around the grove as to protect it.

Roman mythology
In Roman mythology the world tree was the olive tree, that was associated with Pax. The Greek equivalent of Pax is Eirene, one of the Horae. The Sacred tree of the Roman Sky father Jupiter was the oak, the laurel was the Sacred tree of Apollo. The ancient fig-tree in the Comitium at Rome, was considered as a descendant of the very tree under which Romulus and Remus were found.

Norse mythology
In Norse mythology, Yggdrasil is the world tree. Yggdrasil is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Yggdrasil is an immense ash tree that is central and considered very holy. The Æsir go to Yggdrasil daily to hold their courts. The branches of Yggdrasil extend far into the heavens, and the tree is supported by three roots that extend far away into other locations: one to the well Urðarbrunnr in the heavens, one to the spring Hvergelmir, and another to the well Mímisbrunnr. Creatures live within Yggdrasil, including the harts Dáinn, Dvalinn, Duneyrr and Duraþrór, the giant in eagle-shape Hræsvelgr, the squirrel Ratatoskr and the wyrm Níðhöggr. Scholarly theories have been proposed about the etymology of the name Yggdrasil, the potential relation to the trees Mímameiðr and Læraðr, and the sacred tree at Uppsala.

Circumbaltic mythology
In Baltic, Slavic and Finnish mythology, the world tree is usually an oak. Most of the images of the world tree are preserved on ancient ornaments. Often on the Baltic and Slavic patterns there was an image of an inverted tree, "growing with its roots up, and branches going into the ground".

Baltic beliefs
Scholarship recognizes that Baltic beliefs about a World Tree, located at the central part of the Earth, follow a tripartite division of the cosmos (underworld, earth, sky), each part corresponding to a part of the tree (root, trunk, branches).

It has been suggested that the word for "tree" in Baltic languages (Latvian mežs; Lithuanian medis), both derived from Proto-Indo-European *medh- 'middle', operated a semantic shift from "middle" possibly due to the belief of the Arbor Mundi.

Lithuanian culture
The world tree (Aušros medis) is widespread in Lithuanian folk painting, and is frequently found carved into household furniture such as cupboards, towel holders, and laundry beaters. According to Lithuanian scholars Prane Dunduliene and Norbertas Vėlius, the World Tree is "a powerful tree with widespread branches and strong roots, reaching deep into the earth". The recurrent imagery is also present in Lithuanian myth: on the treetops, the luminaries and eagles, and further down, amidst its roots, the dwelling place of snakes and reptiles. The World Tree of Lithuanian tradition was sometimes identified as an oak or a maple tree.

Latvian culture
In Latvian mythology the world tree (Austras koks) was one of the most important beliefs, also associated with the birth of the world. Sometimes it was identified as an oak or a birch, or even replaced by a wooden pole. According to Ludvigs Adamovičs's book on Latvian folk belief, ancient Latvian mythology attested the existence of a Sun Tree as an expression of the World Tree, often described as "a birch tree with three leaves or forked branches where the Sun, the Moon, God, Laima, Auseklis (the morning star), or the daughter of the Sun rest[ed]".

Slavic beliefs

According to Slavic folklore, as reconstructed by Radoslav Katičić, the draconic or serpentine character furrows near a body of water, and the bird that lives on the treetop could be an eagle, a falcon or a nightingale.

Scholars Ivanov and Toporov offered a reconstructed Slavic variant of the Indo-European myth about a battle between a Thunder God and a snake-like adversary. In their proposed reconstruction, the Snake lives under the World Tree, sleeping on black wool. They surmise this snake on black wool is a reference to a cattle god, known in Slavic mythology as Veles.

Further studies show that the usual tree that appears in Slavic folklore is an oak: for instance, in Czech, it is known as Veledub ('The Great Oak').

In addition, the world tree appears in the Island of Buyan, on top of a stone. Another description shows that legendary birds Sirin and Alkonost make their nests on separate sides of the tree.

Ukrainian scholarship points to the existence of the motif in "archaic wintertime songs and carols": their texts attest a tree at the center of the world and two or three falcons or pigeons sat on its top, ready to dive in and fetch mud to create land (the Earth diver cosmogonic motif).

The imagery of the world tree also appears in folk medicine of the Don Cossacks.

Finnic mythology
According to scholar Aado Lintrop, Estonian mythology records two types of world tree in Estonian runic songs, with similar characteristics of being an oak and having a bird at the top, a snake at the roots and the stars amongst its branches.

Judeo-Christian mythology

The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the Tree of life are both components of the Garden of Eden story in the Book of Genesis in the Bible. According to Jewish mythology, in the Garden of Eden there is a tree of life or the "tree of souls" that blossoms and produces new souls, which fall into the Guf, the Treasury of Souls. The Angel Gabriel reaches into the treasury and takes out the first soul that comes into his hand. Then Lailah, the Angel of Conception, watches over the embryo until it is born.

Gnosticism
According to the Gnostic codex On the Origin of the World, the tree of immortal life is in the north of paradise, which is outside the circuit of the Sun and Moon in the luxuriant Earth. Its height is so great it reaches Heaven. Its leaves are described as resembling cypress, the color of the tree is like the Sun, its fruit is like clusters of white grapes and its branches are beautiful. The tree will provide life for the innocent during the consummation of the age.

Mandaean scrolls often include abstract illustrations of world trees that represent the living, interconnected nature of the cosmos. In Mandaeism, the date palm (Mandaic: sindirka) symbolizes the cosmic tree and is often associated with the cosmic wellspring (Mandaic: aina). The date palm and wellspring are often mentioned together as heavenly symbols in Mandaean texts. The date palm takes on masculine symbolism, while the wellspring takes on feminine symbolism.

Armenian mythology
Armenian professor Hrach Martirosyan argues for the presence, in Armenian mythology, of a serpentine creature named Andndayin ōj, that lives in the (abyssal) waters that circundate the World Tree.

Georgian mythology
According to scholarship, Georgian mythology also attests a rivalry between mythical bird Paskunji, which lives in the underworld on the top of a tree, and a snake that menaces its nestlings.

Hittite culture
A similar imagery is attested in Hittite literature: a snake encircles the base of a tree, an eagle perches atop it, and a bee occupies its middle, which Craig Melchert considers to be a version of the "world tree" or "tree of life" motif.

Sumerian culture
Professor Amar Annus states that, although the motif seems to originate much earlier, its first attestation in world culture occurred in Sumerian literature, with the tale of "Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and the Netherworld". According to this tale, goddess Innana transplants the huluppu tree to her garden in the City of Uruk, for she intends to use its wood to carve a throne. However, a snake "with no charm", a ghostly figure (Lilith or another character associated with darkness) and the legendary Anzû-bird make their residence on the tree, until Gilgamesh kills the serpent and the other residents escape.

Akkadian literature
In fragments of the story of Etana, there is a narrative sequence about a snake and an eagle that live on opposite sides of a poplar tree (şarbatu), the snake on its roots, the eagle on its foliage. At a certain point, both animals swear before deity Shamash and share their meat with each other, until the eagle's hatchlings are born and the eagle decides to eat the snake's young ones. In revenge, the snake alerts god Shamash, who agrees to let the snake punish the eagle for the perceived affront. Later, Shamash takes pity on the bird's condition and sets hero Etana to release it from its punishment. Later versions of the story associate the eagle with mythical bird Anzû and the snake with a serpentine being named Bašmu.

Iranian mythology

A world tree is a common motif in Persian mythology, the legendary bird Simurgh (alternatively, Saēna bird; Sēnmurw and Senmurv) perches atop a tree in the center of the sea Vourukasa. This tree is described as having all-healing properties and many seeds. In another account, the tree is the very same tree of the White Hōm (Haōma). Gaokerena or white Haoma is a tree whose vivacity ensures continued life in the universe, and grants immortality to "all who eat from it". In the Pahlavi Bundahishn, it is said that evil god Ahriman created a lizard to attack the tree.

Bas tokhmak is another remedial tree; it retains all herbal seeds and destroys sorrow.

Hinduism and Indian religions
Remnants are also evident in the Kalpavriksha ("wish-fulfilling tree") and the Ashvattha tree of the Indian religions. The Ashvattha tree ('keeper of horses') is described as a sacred fig and corresponds to "the most typical representation of the world tree in India", upon whose branches the celestial bodies rest. Likewise, the Kalpavriksha is also equated with a fig tree and said to possess wish-granting abilities.

Indologist David Dean Shulman provided the description of a similar imagery that appears in South Indian temples: the sthalavṛkṣa tree. The tree is depicted alongside a water source (river, temple tank, sea). The tree may also appear rooted on Earth or reaching the realm of Patala (a netherworld where the Nāga dwell), or in an inverted position, rooted in the Heavens. Like other accounts, this tree may also function as an axis mundi.

North Asian and Siberian cultures
The world tree is also represented in the mythologies and folklore of North Asia and Siberia. According to Mihály Hoppál, Hungarian scholar Vilmos Diószegi located some motifs related to the world tree in Siberian shamanism and other North Asian peoples. As per Diószegi's research, the "bird-peaked" tree holds the sun and the moon, and the underworld is "a land of snakes, lizards and frogs".

In the mythology of the Samoyeds, the world tree connects different realities (underworld, this world, upper world) together. In their mythology the world tree is also the symbol of Mother Earth who is said to give the Samoyed shaman his drum and also help him travel from one world to another. According to scholar Aado Lintrop, the larch is "often regarded" by Siberian peoples as the World Tree.

Scholar Aado Lintrop also noted the resemblance between an account of the World Tree from the Yakuts and a Moksha-Mordvinic folk song (described as a great birch).

The imagery of the world tree, its roots burrowing underground, its branches reaching upward, the luminaries in its branches is also present in the mythology of Finno-Ugric peoples from Northern Asia, such as the Khanty and the Mansi.

Mongolic and Turkic folk beliefs
The symbol of the world tree is also common in Tengrism, an ancient religion of Mongols and Turkic peoples. The world tree is sometimes a beech, a birch, or a poplar in epic works.

Scholarship points out the presence of the motif in Central Asian and North Eurasian epic tradition: a world tree named Bai-Terek in Altai and Kyrgyz epics; a "sacred tree with nine branches" in the Buryat epic.

Bai-Terek
The Bai-Terek (also known as bayterek, beyterek, beğterek, begterek, begtereg), found, for instance, in the Altai Maadai Kara epos, can be translated as "Golden Poplar". Like the mythological description, each part of tree (top, trunk and root) corresponds to the three layers of reality: heavenly, earthly and underground. In one description, it is considered the axis mundi. It holds at the top "a nest of a double-headed eagle that watches over the different parts of the world" and, in the form of a snake, Erlik, deity of the underworld, tries to slither up the tree to steal an egg from the nest. In another, the tree holds two gold cuckoos at the topmost branches and two golden eagles just below. At the roots there are two dogs that guard the passage between the underworld and the world of the living.

Aal Luuk Mas
Among the Yakuts, the world tree (or sacred tree) is called Ál Lúk Mas (Aal Luuk Mas) and is attested in their Olonkho epic narratives. Furthermore, this sacred tree is described to "connect the three worlds (Upper, Middle and Lower)", the branches to the sky and the roots to the underworld. Further studies show that this sacred tree also shows many alternate names and descriptions in different regional traditions. According to scholarship, the prevalent animal at the top of the tree in the Olonkho is the eagle.

Researcher Galina Popova emphasizes that the motif of the world tree offers a binary opposition between two different realms (the Upper Realm and the Underworld), and Aal Luuk Mas functions as a link between both. A spirit or goddess of the earth, named Aan Alahchin Hotun, is also said to inhabit or live in the trunk of Aal Luuk Mas.

Bashkir
According to scholarship, in the Bashkir epic Ural-batyr, deity Samrau is described as a celestial being married to female deities of the Sun and the Moon. He is also "The King of the Birds" and is opposed by the "dark forces" of the universe, which live in the underworld. A similarly named creature, the bird Samrigush, appears in Bashkir folktales living atop the tallest tree in the world and its enemy is a snake named Azhdakha. After the human hero kills the serpent Azhdakha, the grateful Samrigush agrees to carry him back to the world of light.

Kazakh
Scholarship points to the existence of a bird named Samurik (Samruk) that, according to Kazakh myth, lives atop the World Tree Baiterek. Likewise, in Kazakh folktales, it is also the hero's carrier out of the underworld, after he defeats a dragon named Aydakhara or Aydarhana. In the same vein, Kazakh literary critic and folklorist Seyt Kaskabasov described that the Samruk bird travels between the three spheres of the universe, nests atop the "cosmic tree" (bәyterek) and helps the hero out of the underworld.

Other representations
An early 20th-century report on Altaian shamanism by researcher Karunovskaia describes a shamanistic journey, information provided by one Kondratii Tanashev (or Merej Tanas). However, A. A. Znamenski believes this material is not universal to all Altaian peoples, but pertains to the specific worldview of Tanashev's Tangdy clan. Regardless, the material showed a belief in a tripartite division of the world in sky (heavenly sphere), middle world and underworld; in the central part of the world, a mountain (Ak toson altaj sip') is located. Upon this mountain there is "a navel of the earth and water ... which also serves as the root of the 'wonderful tree with golden branches and wide leaves' (Altyn byrly bai terek)". Like the iconic imagery, the tree branches out to reach the heavenly sphere.

Mongolic cultures
Finnish folklorist Uno Holmberg reported a tale from the Kalmuck people about a dragon that lies in the sea, at the foot of a Zambu tree. In the Buryat poems, near the root of the tree a snake named Abyrga dwells. He also reported a "Central Asian" narrative about the fight between the snake Abyrga and a bird named Garide - which he identified as a version of Indian Garuda.

Korea
The world tree is visible in the designs of the Crown of Silla, Silla being one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea. This link is used to establish a connection between Siberian peoples and those of Korea.

China
In Chinese mythology, a manifestation of the world tree is the Fusang or Fumu tree. In a Chinese cosmogonic myth, solar deity Xihe gives birth to ten suns. Each of the suns rests upon a tree named Fusang (possibly a mulberry tree). The ten suns alternate during the day, each carried by a crow (the "Crow of the Sun"): one sun stays on the top branch to wait its turn, while the other nine suns rest on the lower branches.

Tanzania
An origin myth is recorded from the Wapangwa tribe of Tanzania, wherein the world is created through "a primordial tree and a termite mound". As a continuation of the same tale, the animals wanted to eat the fruits of this Tree of Life, but humans intended to defend it. This led to a war between animals and humans.

Kenya. In the agikuyu community, the "mūgumo" tree is held sacred and it is a taboo to even fetch firewood from it. In the past, the tree served as a altar to offer sacrifices as well as being a place of prayer. If a mùgumo tree falls, it is believed to be an end of an era for a "god"/dynasty and a ritual should be done by elders to cleanse the area and the community because it might be a bad omen.

ATU 301: The Three Stolen Princesses
The imagery of the World Tree appears in a specific tale type of the Aarne-Thompson-Uther Index, type ATU 301, "The Three Stolen Princesses", and former subtypes AaTh 301A, "Quest for a Vanished Princess" (or "Three Underground Kingdoms") and AaTh 301B, "The Strong Man and His Companions" (Jean de l'Ours and Fehérlófia). The hero journeys alone to the underworld (or a subterranean realm) to rescue three princesses. He leads them to a rope that will take them to the surface and, when the hero tries to climb up the rope, his companions cut it and the hero is stranded in the underworld. In his wanderings, he comes across a tree, on its top a nest of eggs from an eagle, a griffin or a mythical bird. The hero protects the nest from a snake enemy that slithers from the roots of the tree.

Serbian scholarship recalls a Serbian mythical story about three brothers, named Ноћило, Поноћило и Зорило ("Noćilo, Ponoćilo and Zorilo") and their mission to rescue the king's daughters. Zorilo goes down the cave, rescues three princesses and with a whip changes their palaces into apples. When Zorilo is ready to go up, his brothers abandon him in the cave, but he escapes with the help of a bird. Serbian scholar Pavle Sofric (sr), in his book about Serbian folkmyths about trees, noted that the tree of the tale, an ash tree (Serbian: јасен), showed a great parallel to the Nordic tree as not to be coincidental.

While comparing Balkanic variants of the tale type ATU 301, researcher Milena Benovska-Sabkova noticed that the conflict between the snake and the eagle (bird) on the tree "was very close to the classical imagery of the World Tree".

Other fairy tales
According to scholarship, Hungarian scholar János Berze Nágy also associated the imagery of the World Tree with fairy tales wherein a mysterious thief comes at night to steal the golden apples of the king's prized tree. This incident occurs as an alternative opening to tale type ATU 301, in a group of tales formerly classified as AaTh 301A, and as the opening episode in most variants of tale type ATU 550, "Bird, Horse and Princess" (otherwise known as The Golden Bird).

Likewise, historical linguist Václav Blažek argued for parallels of certain motifs of these fairy tales (the night watch of the heroes, the golden apples, the avian thief) to Ossetian Nart sagas and the Greek myth of the Garden of the Hesperides. The avian thief may also be a princess cursed into bird form, such as in Hungarian tale Prince Árgyilus (hu) and Fairy Ilona and in Serbian tale The Nine Peahens and the Golden Apples (both classified as ATU 400, "The Man on a Quest for the Lost Wife"). This second type of opening episode was identified by Romanian folklorist Marcu Beza as another introduction to swan maiden tales.

Literature

 * David Abram. The Spell of the Sensuous: Perception and Language in a More-Than-Human World, Vintage, 1997

 * Roys, Ralph L., The Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press 1967.
 * Roys, Ralph L., The Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press 1967.
 * Roys, Ralph L., The Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press 1967.

title: World tree