text:
Talk:The King's School, Canterbury

March 2007
Hello all, and thank you for contributing to this school site. I'm part of the WikiProject_Schools/Assessment team, and, as it appears to be one of the oldest schools in England, then I'm reviewing this page. I'm currently giving it a grade of start on the Wikipedia 1.0 Assessment Scale and an importance of High on this importance scale.

My reasoning is as follows: This article is a fair size at the moment. This is a very old school which is too important not to be acknowledged. Could do with more refs and maybe a photo. B class is close. Victuallers 14:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

You may want to consider upgrading this article to conform to WikiProject Schools. Davodd 08:03, Feb 24, 2004 (UTC)

OFT
It's hard to see how the fact that the school is part of a 50 school investigation by the OFT justifies such a large proportion of the report. You may or may not have views on the OFT and independent schools, but surely a 1500 year history deserves a little more balance. I have rewritten it a bit to strip out the emotive language, but I don't think it really belongs there at all. I am not associated with the school at all, but I do know the details of the OFT decision and the 'level of collusion' of the schools involved, and to dominate this article with this paragraph is, in my opinion, most unfair. Stuart White 18:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks odd. I would delete.PaddyBriggs 19:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Surely unethically scamming several hundreds parents for at least a thousand pounds a year is one of the most significant events in the school's history so far? 131.111.195.8 00:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Fees are over £20K/year according to admissions@kings-canterbury.com and http://www.schoolsguidebook.co.uk/schools/The_King146s_School_Canterbury.html. Conservatively assuming just a small 5% hike after fixing fees with a cartel of 50 other schools for many years, this is easily £1000/year/pupil if not more? 131.111.195.8 17:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with Talkfact. Although the school does have a 1500 year history, the OFT investigation is something which is very relevant to people interested in the school today. Possible after some years this information will be less relevant, but for now I think it should stay. --zrenneh (talk) 11:12, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that can qualify as a citation. You are speculating. What were the fees in 1995? --Copperman 18:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hickster's edit
Too POV. Neutrally phrased, might be acceptable. Don't know enough about subject to make suitable changes. David | Talk 17:02, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

 * my good nick name has been slurred too long. Dbiv (a sworn wiki enemy of mine) trawls Wikipedia removing my valuable contributions...this is what I wrote. And it's true

...Many think that the headmaster treats the pupils and staff with disrespect and has a managerialists joy for changing rules without understanding the effect he has. An unsuccessful staffroom revolt saw a large percentage of the more traditional teachers leave to be replaced by more 'on message' replacements. While some argue that the headmaster is a souless, emotionally disturbed devil, others counter that he has done the impossible and turned wonderland into a training ground for the harsh realities of Blair's Britain.

Blatant Lies
Forget Point Of View This article is simply untrue, and as a current pupil I would know. King's has very low levels of bullying and there is definitely no homophobia. Visitors to King's often comment on how friendly the pupils are. You could say I'm biased, but this article is very far from the truth. And just to clarify: King's has never been fined for fee fixing, It was associated with schools that were, but did not actually fix its fees. And the fact that the bursar earns more than the minimum wage is a true for any school and most people earn some multiple of the minimum wage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.204.253.248 (talk • contribs) 08:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

As another current pupil, I would like to ask the person responsible for re-adding in the statement about latent bullying and homophobia at King's to stop adding it in. It is completely untrue, and how insane would a school have to be to be homophobic AND stop pupils from coming within 2 metres (2 METRES!) of the opposite sex? What, so we have to sit on opposite sides of the classroom?

To add to the above two:

"it can be noted that former pupils and teachers have alleged that the school is rife with unchecked bullying"

I'd like citations, because (again), it kind of falls under the category of "untruths".

 * I am a former pupil and, understandibly, I'd prefer to remain anonymous. I have been to several schools, both private and state and have never encountered such a degree of bullying beneath the surface.  All purples (prefects) and most sixth formers are complicit with systematic bullying and, more often than not, housemasters and housemistresses would turn a blind eye and leave it to the pupils to sort out amongst themselves.  Call it lying if you will, but I cannot keep this on my conscience any longer.  I know of at least eight suicide attempts in my few years there and knew people with very real mental scarring from the place.  I know of kids there who would torture younger pupils with BB guns, lighters, etc. and it was not restrained to certain houses or personalities.  Furthermore, there were several petty goings on and incidents.  There were only two openly homosexual pupils while I was there and one was forced to leave after physical violence and death threats from pupils, mostly the rugby teams.  The headmaster was approached to see if he would help, but offered no assistance.  In the last two years hoodies and baseball caps have been banned.  I have never been to a school where there was such despair and misery under the surface.

 * Most of the edits denying this can be traced to IPs within the school. Hardly NPOV.  131.111.195.8 00:02, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

If you can substantiate your statements, fine. However, you say that these are FORMER pupils and teachers. That does not mean that it is CURRENTLY going on. Unless you can substantiate your claims, with references, I don't think it is appropriate to continually add this information to this site. I'm not sure that even if you can substantiate them that this is appropriate. That is not what this site is for. If you have a grievance, voice it elsewhere. IPs within the school may be pupils who are CURRENTLY at the school editing your comments. They are quite computer literate you know. --Copperman 16:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I have not been in contact with former teachers since they left but am still in touch with several pupils there and those who left last Septemer. I would not usually mention aspects of a school like this but there is so much more bubbling under the surface at this school than anywhere else.  They will continue to try to cover it all up, but I suspect something big will come up soon.  This concerns me greatly and is certainly noteworthy.
 * As for the edits, several were made during "prep time" or after 23:00 when pupils do not have access to the internet. 131.111.195.8 17:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that many of the houses have networked computers and therefore pupils can have access to the internet during prep time. Also, I again state that I do not believe this is the forum for you to air your grievances with the school. Take it up with the school, or provide citation in the page for making these allegations. "it can be noted that former pupils and teachers have alleged that the school is rife with unchecked bullying" Did you or did you not put this sentence into a version of this or the article page? COI: Former pupil of the school, no longer affiliated. --Copperman 18:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * All of the houses have networked computers. However, none of the pupils are permitted to access the internet for research during prep time.  In addition, pupils are not permitted to access the internet after their prescribed bedtimes - for the 18 year old pupils, this is 11pm every day.  This does not appear to be a grievance rather noting that this school, above all others, appears to have a problem in certain areas that lies just beneath the surface.80.189.72.214 16:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Pupils have access to the internet during Prep time and after 11pm. I'm a pupil, it's almost midnight, I'm on the internet. Maybe you're sore about having a bad time here, but I'm certainly not, and theres no point slagging it off on Wikipedia of all places. Brainaic 22:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Simply not true. Who's resorting to lies now? 80.189.65.216 21:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Why is that a lie? Do you really want me to prove it?  Do I have to prove it?  What shall I show you, my name, house, date of birth, pupil number, etc?Brainaic 16:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * To be specific, your statement, "Pupils have access to the internet during Prep time and after 11pm", has been verified to be untrue. And to prove it, your date of birth is 07/11/1988. 80.189.65.216 23:04, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that I'm pretending to be me? Why would I bother to imposter someone?  This is rediculous - It's prep time now, I'm on the internet.  So are most of the house, if they're not actually working.  I normally get to sleep at around half past midnight, the internet still works then.  Who's verified that the internet doesn't work during prep and after 11pm?  Because it's rubbish and they know it.  Yes, when I was in the shells and removes the 6th formers were the only people that were able to go on the internet during prep.  However, that changed when I was in the 5th form I believe.  Anyway, everyone gets to go on the internet during prep.  As for you being bullied and all that - to be completely honest, if you're that bothered about defacing a schools reputation on THE INTERNET, Wikipedia of all sites, after you've left the school for a few years then I'm not suprised that you were bullied - your personality shines through.
 * I would just like to add that if you are going to refer to the Calendar, please do it accurately. Rules 1)ii actually reads (The following are out of bounds) 'The Kingsmead playing field, and the riverside path and underpass on that side beyond the Sainsbury's bridge'.  I believe you are referring to 1)iii which says 'The city before 1.10pm (10.15 am on Sundays), at all other times when lessons are in progress, and after 6pm (6:30 pm for 6as only on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays).  During the Autumn and Lent terms the city is out of bounds to Shells after 4pm and to Removes after 5pm.'  Please note - TO SHELLS.  Don't take this and imply that it's for the whole school.  Also the 6th form are allowed out after prep time anyway.  Next: You've made some sneaky changes to the personal relationships rule, taking it out of context entirely.  In particular, the word 'excessive'.  The rule is as follows: 'EXCESSIVE displays of affection in public, GOING BEYOND normal greetings, are not allowed'.  And the third one - not true.  Rule 8)i is 'BELOW 6A, boys are not permitted to visit girls' studies nor girls to visit boys' studies at any time'.  As for same-sex visits, Rule 8)iii -> 'boys may visit other boys' studies and girls may visit other girls' studies from morning break until the beginning of prep.  After prep such visiting is restricted to the 6th form.'  I've put the important parts in capitals just for you.  I'm taking this from the most recent version of the calendar - Autumn Term 2006. Brainaic 19:45, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Andrew, calm down. It doesn't appear that anyone implied anything of the sort.  No need to get yourself worked up.  I will address each of your concerns in turn and then attempt to justify the inclusion of the information you seem intent on covering up.

 * I am in contact with several former pupils and current pupils at King's (yes, that's how I know your name and date of birth). I trust the information they provide me.  It was confirmed that last year pupils in Shells, Removes and Fifths were unable to use the internet during homework hours.  I assumed that this hadn't been changed because, at that time, the IT department were unwilling to negotiate this.  It appears that this restriction has since been removed although there is still mass censorship.  Numerous online articles, ebooks and political texts are blocked for all pupils and staff.  For boarding pupils, there is no way to get this information during term time.  No pupils are allowed to access the internet after 23:00 as everyone is in bed with the lights out by then.  Remind me the bedtime for Shells - it is either 21:30 or 22:00, isn't it?  Nobody in the school (which has pupils up to the age of 18 and sometime 19) is allowed up even to read a book after 23:00.
 * It's true that many sites ARE blocked, including Wikipedia. However, it appears that I'm still using it.  After 23:00.  Strange, isn't it?
 * Bedtime for shells is 22:00, yes. And whats wrong with that?  This is no different (give or take 15 mins) from any other boarding school.
 * In fact we're (I'm including all 6As and possibly 6Bs in other houses) meant to be in our rooms after 23:15. And can have the lights on or off as we please.  So in fact pupils in the school ARE allowed to read a book after 23:00.  This is yet another example of where you take a fact and mangle it up to fit your agenda.
 * I never attended the King's School and luckily none of my acquaintaces who did are/were bullied. However, there is no denying that a large amount of bullying goes on, with staff complicit in much of it.  They were all very much aware of it.  There is a large amount of bullying between year groups with the older pupils being especially cruel and violent to younger pupils.  This vicious cycle is continued when the younger pupils move up the years and no-one appears to be willing to speak out at it due to intimidation.  Indeed, members of staff and people like you probably think that a good beating for no good reason is a normal part of education.  This is not normal in any school at all and deserves being specifically mentioned.
 * Believe what you want to, but it doesn't happen as you say it does. It may have done in the past (in fact, why don't you edit the article and add in that fagging still happens, it's all in the same vein of 'truth' to you), but now it's not nearly as you describe.
 * For you next point, you fail to deny the truths in the article yet still repeatedly edit them out. It is a fact that for two thirds of the school year pupils are forbidden from town after 16:00.  It is a fact that pupils are not allowed out before 13:10.  "Excessive" is a completely undefined word that was chosen specifically for that reason.  If you want to clarify it with regard to enforcement of that rule, hand-holding in public is discouraged if not actively forbidden and greeting friends with a kiss is completely disallowed.  Both of these strike me as being completely unnatural and probably detrimental to a healthy upbringing.  Finally, you again fail to deny that pupils are not allowed to visit different-sex pupils.  This is incredibly short-sighted as I'm sure you will agree.  Normal relationships are outlawed.
 * 'Pupils' is a nice way of putting it. How about 'The youngest year of the school', or 'The ones who are most likely to get hurt after dark'.  Hand holding is not discouraged (only time I've ever seen it so was as a joke), and you can greet friends however you want.  The rules are there so that if people are being suitably embarrassing, the school can point to the rules and say 'You weren't meant to do that'.  Normal relationships are not outlawed, pupils and teachers know that.  We're just not expected to end up shagging in our rooms.  Pupils are allowed into different-sex pupils houses, just not their rooms.  And in 6a, we're allowed into their rooms.  There you go, I've denied it.  In fact, lets rephrase what you've written here to make it more accurate:
 * For two thirds of the school year, one fifth of the school, the ones who are most likely to get in trouble with the local chavs due to their size and age, are not allowed into town after 16:00. Better? Or is the malignant spin that you love so much missing now?
 * Why would we want to go into town before lunch time anyway? I mean, we're not exactly going to go out for breakfast as it's already provided for us in the dining room.  Oh, and then theres lessons.  Then 25 mins break around 11:00, where most of the school is busy making toast.  Then more lessons, then lunch.  And finally a period of time longer than 30 mins where we can actually go into town without being late for lessons or whatever.  So yes, it is a fact that pupils are not allowed out before 13:10.  But context is everything.
 * I think the reason so many wish to point these facts out as well as the recent inspection results are because there are several aspects of this school that are decidedly abnormal and unhealthy. They are in fact so strange and colour the school so significantly that they are deserving of mention in a NPOV enclyclopaedia entry.  Things that concern me the most about this school include the following:
 * I think that if you look at the recent inspection results you'll find that they were decidedly complimentary, going as far as to praise the 'Natural and open relationships' which you seem unable to accept.
 * 1. A pupil expelled for kissing another pupil of the same sex in pupil. This pupil was subjected to physical assaults afterwards and received no help at all apart from being made to leave the school.
 * Can't say I've heard about this one.
 * 2. The fact that cinemas, theatres, arcades and a café are out of bounds for all pupils with no explanation.
 * If you ask a teacher, they'll give you a reason. If you want to go to the cinema, you ask your housemaster and they say yes.  It's a simple procedure.  Noone wants to go to the theatre anyway.  If we do, we'll probably be allowed to.  Arcades (I'm assuming that you're referring to the gambling kind) are out of bounds precisely BECAUSE they're for gambling.  And the cafe because of what used to happen when it wasn't made out of bounds.
 * 3. The banning of mobile phones and internet messaging programs to keep in touch with friends and family.
 * Mobile phones are allowed and MSN works on the school network. I love how you're coming up with complete rubbish.
 * 4. The fact that pupils must eat three meals a day in school and cannot choose where/what/when to eat for themselves.
 * Unless the pupil breaks a rule that can't be enforced. In fact, it's very common for this to happen.  It's simply a way for the school to put the blame on the pupil if parents complain that their children aren't getting enough nutrition.
 * 5. The fact that, to my knowledge, at least five suicide attempts have taken place related to the pupil's relationship with the school and not been acknowledged at all. In all cases, no long term support was provided and the first solution they came up with was to leave the school.
 * Again I haven't heard anything but rumours concerning this. In fact I have no idea what pupil you're referring to.  It's certainly not during my time here anyway.
 * Remember that this is not a day school. It is a boarding school where pupils up to the age of 18 or 19 cannot simply wait until they get home, or do as they please at the weekend.  There is no escaping this regime.  Please consider this before editing the article to favour your bias and miss out important information.Alain Vey 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's hard to forget this seeing as I attend the school and I board. Oh, and I can easily wait until I get home, which is handy seeing as I go home 6 times a year.  You insist on misrepresenting the school based on rumours that you've heard.  Great, you found out my name - that doesn't mean that you've got any up to date information concerning the school at all.  Last thing - people can break the rules.  They're not all there to be kept.Brainaic 00:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Good grief, have we finally stopped this argument then? Copperman 17:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)  PS: I'm not surprised suicide attempts are not acknowledged. Generally suicide attempts are resorted to by persons suffering from depression of some kind, which is a mental health issue and therefore subject to confidentiality issues.

Nice flame war. I was at King's - I loved it - I left in '99. Taken from a modern viewpoint, yes, bullying is rife, however back in my day (all of a decade ago!) we just called it Fagging. Deal with it. And yes, there was a chap in my house (Linacre) who nearly got killed over a girl - he was beaten most of the way to death on the Luxmoore lawn. They keep very, very quiet about that kind of thing. Nice nordic chap... Can't recall his name, although I can recall the name of the chap who instigated the beating, but I shan't recount it here. --87.80.43.97 11:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I know two children who attend Kings and both have been bullied. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.175.139.78 (talk) 11:16, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

None of the above adequately captures the misery I experienced in this place. Growing up queer in King's was a special kind of hell I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I tried to end my life twice during my time there. Maugham was unbelievably fortunate to have escaped when he did. Public schools are a blight, and their ongoing existence is a symptom of the UK's failure to do right by the disadvantaged among its population. 185.104.186.10 (talk) 18:01, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Beadle Tradition
Is this a "tradition" or a Wilkinsonian innovation? Was started in about 1997, no? Jimothy.

Jimothy: My older sibling is an OKS. He entered King's in 1995 and the Beadle had already been about for a good while (ie; before Wilkinson).

Actually the Beadle used to be the RSM, prior to becoming the Beadle. There was no office known as "The Beadle" at King's certainly between 1988 and 1995. Prior to that some of the function of the Beadle was carried out by teachers at the school, whilst other functions were left to the Deputy Headmaster and the Senior Mistress. -- Copperman 20:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Yep - he only became the beadle in 97 or so - he was the RSM (Regimental Sergeant Major) prior to that. --87.80.43.97 11:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The Beadle left at the end of summer 08 and at that point it was acknowledged that, while it seems like a tradition, the office of The Beadle was only brought in by Canon Wilkinson, the previous Headmaster...just to confirm from an inside source. 04cah (talk) 07:26, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Facilities and Religious Studies
The facilities part of the article lists the rooms of the various academic subjects. Where is Religious Studies?! I don't know where it is, so I would rely on a pupil or an old boy putting this in, but as an RE teacher I see it as quite a significant oversight! Thanks, Hail True Body 21:15, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I've added R.S. to the Subject List; apologies if it's more often known as Religious Education. Hail True Body 15:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I've added the RS department in under 'Lattergate'Brainaic 00:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it no longer known as Scriptures? --87.80.43.97 11:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Nope, officially, Religious Studies, usually RS. 04cah (talk) 07:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Oldest extant school
I'm not sure about your claim to be the oldest extant school in the world. Shishi Middle School in China claims to have been founded between 143 and 141 BC and is still in existence today. Unfortunately their claim is not backed up by a reference. Dahliarose 13:01, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The Shishi Middle School closed for a substantial amount of time, was demolished and the current school built on the site. I don't believe that this qualifies it to claim to be founded c.143-141 BC. A school was founded there, but not the current school. 62.25.109.197 (talk) 05:05, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I think that Winchester College has the oldest recorded history: statutes, lists of scholars, original buildings, etc. Millbanks (talk) 10:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A college is not for children though. 62.25.109.197 (talk) 05:05, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
 * "Winchester College was founded in 1382 by William of Wykeham, Bishop of Winchester", so it is 785 years younger than King's. In this case "college" is a school for children as is, for example, Eton college. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:50, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Edward Heath
The article on Edward Heath states that he was in the sixth form at King's Canterbury, and became head boy. But his name does not appear on your alumni list, nor is it in his Who's Who entry. Millbanks (talk) 10:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The reference has now been deleted. Millbanks (talk) 13:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Old King's Scholars renaming
At present there is a discussion relating to the renaming of this category. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at this discussion page. Please note that the discussion is not a majority vote so contributions should be based on Wikipedia policies and independent sources. Cjc13 (talk) 13:33, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

School name
I have moved the page back to the original name, see the discussion on User talk:Handsdown.1. "The" has been part of the title since its refounding in 1541. Any further proposals for a move should be discussed here, first. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:58, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:The King's School, Canterbury


text:
Talk:Miss Porter's School

Upgrading article
You may want to consider upgrading this article to conform to WikiProject Schools. Davodd 08:04, Feb 24, 2004 (UTC)

An upgrade is essential, since the article as it exists now is poor. I am an alumna, and I am embarrassed by it. Either the Sarah Porter site should be merged with it, or the information about Porter should be largely confined to her own article. The material regarding the archives is unnecessary, since information about that is unlikely to be of interest to people merely seeking facts about the school. If they wish to know about the archives, they can and should go to the official website. I can't say that I consider the endowment campaign to be of great relevance either. Perhaps some qualified individual at the school should retool this article completely, noting, in particular, the repetitions and inconsistencies in the list of alumnae. (Is Edie Bouvier Beale really a notable alumna, notwithstanding the Broadway show? I don't agree.)68.72.106.114 22:37, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Yale
I must take issue with the claim that the "majority" of MPS graduates attended Yale. I am an MPS graduate who DID attend Yale. I was one of three students admitted to Yale, out of a class of 75. One of my classmates was admitted to Harvard, and, if I'm remembering correctly, two were admitted to Princeton.

I've followed later college admissions statistics for MPS: they do not suggest that the "majority" (far, far from it) of MPS students have been admitted to Yale. Who on earth made this ridiculous claim? It isn't true. Unless someone can offer me statistics that I don't have in hand, I will remove this claim within the next week.Lolliapaulina51 (talk) 00:00, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Julia Child?
Is there some evidence that Julia Child actually attended Miss Porter's? This is not mentioned in the thorough biography "An Appetite for Life" which details her education in great detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HansLechner (talk • contribs) 01:06, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Notable alumnae
There's a disagreement about whether to include Hayley Petit and Elizabeth Cushman Titus Putnam in the list of notable alumnae. While there is no Wikipedia guideline requiring that these people have articles about them to establish notability the general practice on Wikipedia is to establish the notability (using Wikipedia's definition) of these people first and then include them in lists. The concept of "notability" is already a confusing one for people not familiar with Wikipedia policy and guidelines and not being consistent with our use (deleting articles for not being notable but allowing a non-notable person in a list with the section heading of "notable") just adds to that confusion. I propose that these two people be deleted from the list till such a time as they are established as being notable. SQGibbon (talk) 17:50, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I would like to point out DEL: "Articles that are short and unlikely to be expanded could be merged into larger articles or lists. For example, information about family members of a celebrity who are not otherwise notable is generally included in, or merged into, the article on that celebrity. " This was the case for Ms. Petit, as her article was merged into the one on the Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders. As for Ms. Putnam, is probably unlikely to ever have her own article (or one that has much content if it were made), but being awarded a medal by the President seems enough to pass the notability test for an alumni list, as Whitehouse.Gov is certainly valid per WP:SOURCES.
 * Note that besides having links to their attendent articles that both of these are also footnoted, so they should therefore stay as they are cited content. I have no complaint about the removal of Mabel Hobart Brandon or Elizabeth Wise as they have no obvious notability. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 18:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I get that these people are surrounded by notable events but that does not automatically confer notability on them. If they are notable then create articles for them. So far I can't find anything that makes either of them notable.  What this still comes down to is whether we should stick with notability as defined by WP:N or something less strict.  Just about every article I come across on Wikipedia applies WP:N to lists of subjects and I see no reason not to do the same here.
 * Also, being properly cited is not really relevant. But since you brought it up I'm not seeing where the citation for Elizabeth Putnam indicates that she graduated from this school. SQGibbon (talk) 23:08, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Moot As I have pointed out, standard list practice does not require wp:v. However, if you did a simple google search you would find that Elizabeth Putnam graduated in 1951.[] (please see page 9). Now I'm a sticker and have cleaned up probably every school in Connecticut's alumni/famous professor etc lists... but IMO you're carying this a bit far. On most every list I see, a wikipage *or* a citation is enough. Here you're asking for the removal of two cited entries, both of which also have articles related to them where they are cited and mentioned as notable. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 03:56, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's look at this way, let's say that I agree that Hayley Petit should be included in this article because she does receive significant coverage in another article on Wikipedia (though she herself is not notable enough to have her own article). But there is absolutely no way Elizabeth Putman should be included because she has no significant coverage in Wikipedia and has only won an award that a lot of other people have. Someone else might come along and say that neither of these people should be included because neither, according to Wikipedia standards, is notable. But then yet another person comes along and says that not only should both of these people be included but thousands of others who are reliably sourced to have attended this school and were, for example, owner of a once popular restaurant that received some reviews in a local newspaper, or was interviewed by a local newspaper when some store went out of business, or was interviewed by a local TV station because that person was in a parade.  Because there are no clear guidelines for this situation then all four of us have valid arguments and can (and will) spend days, weeks, months, and pages upon pages, arguing about whether the local florist should be included in the list.  Instead, if we follow the lead of all the other thousands of articles in my watchlist that contain lists and only include people who are notable enough to have articles in Wikipedia then there is no wasted time or effort. There are no arguments as everything remains cut and dry. Does this person have their own article? If not then they are not included in the list.  If so then they can be. It's easy, no muss no fuss.  I don't know if that's why Wikipedia notability has become the de facto criterion for determining inclusion in lists like this but it's a darn good reason for it.
 * Also, did you really mean to say "if you did a simple google search"? Isn't that your job since you are the one insisting that this person be included?  I wish I had time to do a Google search for every single thing I come across on Wikipedia but I don't.  If someone is going to assert that there exists a reliable source supporting a claim then it is up to that person to include that source in the first place. SQGibbon (talk) 05:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I thank you for seeing the light re: Ms. Petit.
 * As I keep pointing out, standard list practice does not require wp:v. Ergo, that means wp:n is also not required. As for the rest of your comment, you're totally ignoring my point about WP:SOURCES: if you're saying that receiving a medal from the President and being listed on whitehouse.gov is the same as getting reviewed as a floral arranger in New Haven Patch, then I think you need to seriously re-evaluate your arguement. That both women have pages they are on (in Petit's case, a merged page at that) *and* had valid citations puts them way over the minimum requirement for inclusion. I don't mean to sound tetchy, please don't take that as an insult as it is not meant to be one.
 * Yep. I did not add Ms Putman, I re-added her since she had a valid citation, again per standard list practice. If you questioned that she is a graduate, you could have at least looked to see if there was *anything* about her being one. But since you asked, I provided a source as required. IMO, not doing so is like those "busy people" whom can tag 80 articles with "not referenced" tags, but don't add a References section with reflist. IMO, if you're going to challenege something, at least meet a minimum level of effort. Personally, I don't have time to debate how lists work on wikipedia, but I'm doing it anyway. Thank you for adding the second citation, I trust we are concluded? Best, Markvs88 (talk) 17:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am not saying that receiving a medal from the president is the same as a floral arranger, they are different and that is my point! You've established an arbitrary set of criteria for what counts as notable. Someone else could come along and establish their own arbitrary set of criteria that does allow for the floral arranger. In my hypothetical example I set an arbitrarily chosen set of criteria that allowed for Ms. Petit but not Ms. Putman. And every single other person on the planet can come along and argue for their own arbitrarily chosen set of criteria to allow this person here but not that person there.  And there is absolutely no objective or rational way to prove that one is best over the other.  OR we could use the definition that Wikipedia already uses and is used de facto by hundreds and thousands of articles in Wikipedia already which is WP:N.  It's easy and clean.  If you take nothing else away from this exchange please take away this point: using WP:N makes managing lists so much easier for everyone.

 * Ms. Putnam did not have a valid citation since there was nothing indicating that she attended this school (which is a problem with almost all of the rest of the people listed in that section, by the way). Look, I see by your edit count that you are an experienced editor.  If you add a claim to an article then I expect you, like I do with all experienced editors, to add a citation.  I patrol recent changes on Wikipedia.  I see hundreds of edits every day by IPs that aren't sourced.  If it looks reasonable I tag it and move on.  If it looks unlikely or is controversial I revert it.  Whenever I come across a claim that has been tagged I check the date on it and act accordingly. We all do different things on Wikipedia. More instances of vandalism occur every minute than there are people to patrol recent changes.  We miss vandalism all the time and some of it rather serious violations of WP:BLP (with all the legal ramifications that poses).  If I, and other rcp folk, don't chase down every edit made by every single person we come across but instead tag or revert, that's an acceptable loss of a potentially good edit in exchange for the 20 more instances of vandalism that are going to occur that we each would miss by chasing down a source for that edit.

 * What it all comes down to is this. If you make an edit then the responsibility is on you to make sure you supply a reliable source to back it up. Also, creating lists of "notable" figures where we use a definition of notability different from the one already in place on Wikipedia means endless edit wars and arguments.  Follow WP:N and it's all so much easier and cleaner.

 * Finally, I'm not going to contest the addition of Ms. Petit and Ms. Putman any more. The standard operating procedure of heavily edited articles with lists would be to not include them, but whatever. A couple of things for you to keep in mind though.  One is that if another experienced editor comes along he/she is very likely to delete those two entries as not being notable. Two, all the people in that list need reliable sources indicating that they attended this school.  It's unfortunate that probably 95% of all school articles are poorly sourced in this regard but that doesn't mean we shouldn't follow Wikipedia guidelines and policies with respect to those articles (not to mention WP:BLP can be a legitimate concern as well). Cheers. SQGibbon (talk) 00:05, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Again: I did not set it up, and it is not arbitrary -- IT IS STANDARD WIKIPEDIA LIST PRACTICE.
 * And, again: I did not add it, I restored it. Big difference.
 * Yes, I know all about wp:burden. I assume you know about wp:good faith. I also expect that by your edit count that you should know that wp:n is not a magic wand. You're trying to force a rule where none exists, and that's that.
 * Which is a good thing, since they are both adequately cited. Er, no, again, you're applying something to lists that does not apply. See you around, Markvs88 (talk) 01:15, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's something you might find useful, under the Wikipedia schools project are these guidelines about adding alumni to articles here. SQGibbon (talk) 01:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks you, that's VERY useful: "All alumni information must be referenced... it is not necessary for their notability to be referenced." Thanks for finally agreeing that "As I have pointed out, standard list practice ''does not require wp:v". Again, Ms. Petit and Ms. Putnam were fine in the first place. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 22:37, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, a bit of selective reading there. Here's the entire line where you left out the first part of the sentence "When alumni have their own articles in mainspace, it is not necessary for their notability to be referenced, as long as it is done in the biographical articles." Since neither of these people has there own article in the mainspace then this clause does not apply.  Then it goes on to say "Individual alumni need a citation to a) to verify that they did indeed attend the school, and b) to verify the statement of their notability in their short one or two line description." and "Per Wikipedia:Bio#Lists of people, alumni to be included should meet Wikipedia notability criteria".  Notice that the first use of "notable" links to WP:N and the second one to WP:BASIC which is WP:N but specifically applied to biographies. The guideline makes it very clear that WP:N is the criterion we should be using. SQGibbon (talk) 23:20, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for proving my point, I'm done here. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 21:36, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, since the WP:SCHOOLS project's own guidelines about alumni requires us to follow WP:NOTABILITY and you have not demonstrated that either of these people is notable, then I'm deleting them. SQGibbon (talk) 22:17, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Exactly how many times do I have to point out that Ms. Petit HAS a page, and that Ms. Putnam has two valid citations? By your own obsessive requirements they pass muster. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 23:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ms. Petit does not have a page, there's a redirect for her name to another page. She is not notable enough to have her own page.  It does not matter if Ms. Putnam has 100 "valid citations", all that matters is if she's notable (as per the requirements listed in the guidelines I linked to and quoted above) which point you have not demonstrated.  Show that these people are notable using WP:NOTABILITY then this discussion ends.  Otherwise they do not belong. SQGibbon (talk) 00:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I cannot believe an experienced editor is arguing for the removal of cited content. IT DOES matter, your own arguements have borne out what I've been saying the entire time, AND you're in violation of WP:USI.
 * Fine, since you can't seem to grasp it yourself: WP:GNG states:

"If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list."
 * Ms. Petit: had her article merged in with her family, and the story was covered in thousands of news outlets and has 53 citations on her page. INCLUDED ON THE PAGE is an external link to Messages about the death of Hayley Petit – Miss Porter's School. This goes far beyond the requirements of notability.
 * Ms. Putnam has two citations, which is the bare minimum for notability. Just so it makes you feel better, I have written her a page! Congratulations, you're now the reason for the creation of a Stub (Elizabeth Cushman Titus Putnam) which will be unlikely to ever be improved. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 01:14, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Citations do not establish notability. It's the quality of the information that is being cited that establishes notability (which is why, for instance, citations based on a subject's own website are not sufficient for establishing notability).  That Ms. Putnam founded an organization (that currently has an article but looking at it I see that's it has been tagged for not establishing notability and not having references, sigh) does not by itself establish notability.  That she won an award does not by itself establish notability.  That she won an award for the organization she founded might establish notability.  If her article were nominated for deletion I believe there is a very good chance it would be deleted for not being notable and her name would be redirected to Student Conservation Association.

 * Likewise Ms. Petit has already been deemed non-notable which is why her name redirects to another article. I have not been able to find an article for her that was merged with the Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders article but perhaps I'm just not using the proper spelling variant to find it.  In any case, if she were notable she would have an article.

 * Finally, this is tiresome. You've refactored one of my comments, accused me of not assuming good faith, of violating USI, you've created an article about a non-notable person, and have added non-notable people to a list of notable people.  I'm tired of the fighting so I give up.  You win. Congratulations.  SQGibbon (talk) 03:28, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Er, citations most certainly DO establish notabilty. Without citations, anything and everything can be deleted. All 7 of the ones I've put on her page fit every requirement, and I should think you honored to have an article where you're dedicated to on the first edit. If you dislike the article, go for the AfD. Should you do so, I think you'll find it meets minimal notability. I don't know what your beef with this particular woman is, but I find it hysterical that you blindly accept others on the page such as Theodate Pope Riddle, whom has no citation of having attended the school at all, verus Ms. Putnam, whom does.

Ms. Petit was not considered non-notable, she was found to be notable as a member of a group in an event, which is covered by WP:BIO1E.

I did not refactor any of your comments. I do assume you did not act in good faith by reverting something you'd already agreed upon and which (with 2 citations) already met the minimum level required for notability. You also DID violate USI, and I've created an article I did not want to create because of your insistance to enforce a "requirement" which was already met well beyond Wikipedia policy. I agree, this has been tiresome. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 15:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Re citations: Please read WP:GNG specifically the sections on "significant coverage", "sources", and "independent of the subject" which all speak to the point that it's not the citation but the quality of the information being cited that establishes notability. You can make a valid citation out of a telephone directory but that does not establish notability.

 * Re blindly accept(ing) others on the page: My feeling was that it would be best to deal with these two examples before starting in on the others. This one is going so badly as it is I couldn't see the point of making things even worse.

 * Re Ms. Petit being notable: If she were notable she would have her own article. That she received significant coverage in a notable event puts her into something of a gray area with respect to these issues and inclusion on this list.

 * Re refactoring: I misspoke. What you did was edit my comments.  You've now done that twice, both times inserting spelling mistakes.  Please read WP:TPO for the specific guidelines concerning this.  This is disruptive behavior.

 * Re good faith: You accused me of not acting in good faith before I made that change: your accusation, my change that you now claim is the reason you've accused me of acting in bad faith. The time stamps demonstrate the falsity of your claim here.

 * Re my reverting the article: Up to that point I was not aware that Wikipedia guidelines were on my side with respect to this debate. Up to that point I felt we were arguing what essentially boiled down to opinions on the best way to edit.  Once it became clear that the guidelines actually dealt with this issue (that alumni lists require WP:N) and that you were not responding to any of those points then the change was made.

 * Re USI: I do not understand your interpretation of WP:USI. It states "When information is unsourced, and it is doubtful any sources are available for the information, it can be boldly removed."  This is exactly how I felt and acted.   SQGibbon (talk) 17:12, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

 * I apologize for any changes to your posts: they were unintentional. I am working on a laptop with no mouse and an eraserpoint that seems to love changing my cursor position. While I've been pasting in my replies, I was unaware that anything in your section(s) was being changed. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 17:42, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Assessment
I am assessing this article for WikiProject Schools following a request to do so. Firstly, on importance, the school's age and history suggests high-importance for WikiProject Schools. I am also bringing it up to C-class across all projects, although I think further work is needed to pass the B-class criteria. In particular, there is a problem with referencing, as despite the long list of referencing, there is almost no citations in the alumni, student life, and a few other sections. The references which do exist could also be presented better, with use of citation templates rather than bare URLs. I also note that a lot of the reference material is from the school website; the school website can be used but as much as possible should be from third party sources.

The layout of the article should conform better to WP:WPSCH/AG, for instance summer programmes should probably be with academics/curriculum, and any missing sections added as appropriate. Some existing sections clearly need expanding, for instance the history section should be much longer for a school of this age, and the lead section is way too short; it should introduce and fully summarize the article - see WP:LEAD. Articles should generally be written in prose by default, and the campus facilities section would probably flow better in paragraphs, and possibly be a little more concise. The notable alumni section is getting very long and consideration should possibly be given to splitting it off into its own article - see List of Boston Latin School alumni for an example. It's good to see some pictures although the picture in the infobox should normally be that of the school logo. Any free pictures which are not on Commons should be moved there, and all can be linked to from the article using.

The article's tone is okay, although there are some hints of promotion and peacock terms in places, for example "As a college preparatory school, Porter's offers a fairly rigorous curriculum as it prepares young women to "shape a changing world."" This isn't very useful readers - more time needs to be spent explaining what the curriculum actually is, with readers left to descide for themselves whether it is rigorous. CT Cooper ·  talk 15:10, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

List of Head of School
I suggest that the history of this school could be improved if there was a list of all Heads of School and their dates of service.71.230.201.203 (talk) 00:57, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

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"Miss Porter's Schooll" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Miss Porter&. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 10 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC  678  05:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Alumnae vs Alumni
There's discourse on whether it should be changed to alumni for inclusivity, and I implore those in disagreement to discuss it here instead of in edit notes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doll Allison (talk • contribs) 18:50, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

User:Megadesk edit warring
@Megadesk is making a lot of edits that are not constructive. They abuse certain sources (Davis and Donahue (1992). Miss Porter's School: A History) as cites, but give no page numbers. Then they keep adding social media as references. Now we have the problem mit MOS:Honorifics, reverted today. I suspect Conflict of Interest, lack of NPOV, and a strong personal connection to Miss Porter's, since they have made hundreds of edits on this page and almost nowhere else. The edits are often detriments to the page's quality. This is getting out of control. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 20:28, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Megadesk is back. Making boosterism edits with no referencing, using social media. Give us a break. --Melchior2006 (talk) 08:40, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Academics: Unreferenced assertions
We need a source for this, otherwise delete: Structured academically in accordance with contemporaneous, decidedly more econometric institutional models, nearly, if not painfully so, to point of paradox, the school counts more traditional novice-most intramural demonym, freshmen, amongst its (mod 4) grade level designations; more or less in keeping with decidedly (if not perfunctorily) post-structuralist tradition, by necessity of form, to project a selectively (if defensively) hypermasculine visual identity in terms of service (e.g., by insignia, Wellesley College). Melchior2006 (talk) 16:52, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Original research and entirely unencyclopedic in tone. Does not belong. SQGibbon (talk) 23:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Traditions
Currently, there are four traditions listed, none of them have any sourcing except for an illegit social media reference @Megadesk keeps edit-warring about. All of these traditions should be deleted if there is no sourcing for them. If Megadesk refuses to participate in discussions, then they should be blocked from editing this page. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 16:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Agree, they should not be on the page. Even if they were sourced they would not belong without sources establishing not just the existence of these traditions but why they are important in gaining a general understanding of the subject. SQGibbon (talk) 23:05, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Alumni
The sources have already been provided. Summerdays1 (talk) 00:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * This is classic WP:VNOT. A gallery of alumni doesn't promote an encyclopedic understanding of the subject, and pictures aren't there just for decoration. VQuakr (talk) 02:11, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * This is an interesting discussion for higher-ed editors, since alum pix galleries often get excessive, like the Miss Porter's alum gallery was. What criteria should we use in order to cut back on boosterism and self-promotion? --Melchior2006 (talk) 18:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Zero is the correct number of pictures to have in a notable alumni list per MOS:PERTINENCE. VQuakr (talk) 19:02, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Miss Porter's School


text:
Talk:DuPont Manual High School

Revamping
Seems like it's been a while since this page has been touched. I'm working on a layout for this page, and I expect to have it done soon.--Bsdlogical 21:21, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Cool. There has been quite a bit of deletion of non-notable high schools.  I think that because this page hasn't been touched much, it has survived.  Hopefully you can include a lot more information about it showing its notability.  I didn't go to Manual, but like the majority of former high school kids from Kentucky, I recognize that it's arguably the best magnet school in Kentucky.  Since you are a relatively new user, I would urge you to consider other high school webpages.  For instance, Dr. Michael M. Krop High School is way over the top (see my comments at Talk:Dr. Michael M. Krop High School).  Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is an example of, in my opinion, a good article that isn't too verbose about a very notable high school.  Good luck, and welcome to Wikipedia. CryptoDerk 22:03, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Alright. I actually am a freshman at Manual currently, and just from these few months I know there is plenty of information to add here. The Dr. Michael M. Krop page has given me lots of ideas, and I'll be able to do a news hunt for notable awards, etc. Otherwise, I'll pull the numbers, staff names, and other statistics from the site itself. Thanks for the welcome, I've already used Wikipedia quite a bit for my personal research, and have figured it's time to give back and contribute :)--Bsdlogical 00:58, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Re-did history
The old history was confusing. After poring through different references that seemed to contradict each other, I think I have the correct timeline down. Please double-check though, as I'm sure there may be some years that aren't in agreement with other articles. However, those are the years stated on the DuPont Manual website.

Capitalization issues
I know that duPont Manual doesn't like to capitalize the 'd', but you always capitalize the first letter of a sentence. On Manual's web site, they don't, which is sort-of cute, but in all serious news sources the 'd' is capitalized when it starts a sentence. In the middle of a sentence, it's fine to leave it lower-cased. – Quadell (talk) (help)  19:20, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Awards
DuPont Manual has an extensive list of awards at http://dupontmanual.com/awards.shtml. However, I do not think it appropriate to list every single one... or is it? I'm not sure what the Wikipedia policies are on this, any suggestions?

 * No, as I stated before, don't go over the top. You mentioned that you're just a frosh there, so you may not be aware of the notability of some of those awards.  Also, that page is a bit outdated.  Here's a list of what I think is relevant/important:

 * National School of Excellence
 * Redbook mention (You wouldn't want to list this, but put it in a sentence, and make sure to mention what year/years it was listed)
 * National merit, although this is pretty well covered.. don't list individual numbers but say something like "Manual regularly has 40+ National Merit Semifinalists"

 * From my knowledge of the people on Manual's academic team I would wager that 3/4 of those "student successes" listings haven't been updated in years. Some of those events haven't been held in forever too... The Speed Scientific School programming competition for high schools hasn't been run for 3 or 4 years.  If you can get some reliable numbers, mention what years they've won Governor's Cup state.  Also be sure to mention that GC is the largest competition in Kentucky, since nobody from outside the state is likely to know what Governors Cup is.  CryptoDerk 23:33, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Understood, I will add those in. What else is the article lacking?
 * Additional notable alumni. Also, hasn't YPAS done some notable things aside from being a choir at the inauguration of GWB.  If you can dig that up you might want to insert it. If you come up with enough stuff, insert it into the YPAS article, but otherwise de-link the redlinks on the page to YPAS.  Lastly, if you can, discuss the relationship between Manual and UofL.  I know there is some level of partnership there -- when I taught at UofL I had some students in my classes from Manual.  You may be hard pressed for info on this, but if you want to do a little investigative work on it, you might want to email Michael Cuyjet at UofL (you can find his email address on the louisville.edu website).  I believe he is a dean of some sort, and his children went to Manual.  On an unrelated note, be sure to sign your messages with ~ to insert your name and timestamp.  CryptoDerk 02:22, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

Merge Crimsons article into this one
I think the article about the Crimsons sports teams should be merged into this one. They're closely related, and only this page links to that article. I don't think the sports program merits its own article. Realkyhick 03:55, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

The Manual Crimsons artical should NOT be merged with the Manual High School Artical. The sports and the school should be seperated. Like the University of Michigan and Michigan Wolverines pages are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rick lay95 (talk • contribs)
 * Well those are colleges, obviously. This was decided twice at AfD that there's a consensus to merge. --W.marsh 04:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

When the articals were merged for the first time, ALL the information that I added was deleated an turned into one paragraph. If the articals are going to be merged, then the new artical needs to retain the information I have spent all this time finding and adding.
 * Anyone can merge the info in at any time. --W.marsh 02:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Manual crest.gif
Image:Manual crest.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * DuPont Manual Magnet High School → DuPont Manual High School —(Discuss)— As per the Wikipedia naming conventions, this article should probably be moved. Unless I have a sorely skewed POV as an alumnus, the magnet term is rarely used when talking about the school (I did not know that it was part of its name until I was a senior), and is therefore not part of its common name. --khalfani_khaldun (talk) 22:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)khalfani_khaldun (talk) 17:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Since there was no opposition to this change for several days, I went ahead and moved the page. khalfani_khaldun (talk) 15:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Names

 * This has actually been bugging me, now that I've moved the article. In looking around (especially on the school's website) I cannot find anywhere that says the school is actually named "DuPont Manual Magnet High School." I know it is somewhat infrequently referred to as such, or even as "The Magnet High School," but none of these seem to be official names. 1984 Just seems to be the year in which the school became a magnet school. If no one can find a source that says otherwise, I am going to delete the names section and just include the first name change in the history section. khalfani_khaldun (talk) 15:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Words of advice
I don't do formal GA reviews, but I did just do some copyediting of the article. The only glaring issues I found were the two first paragraphs in the section Campus life. I would say the entire first paragraph is too detailed and unnecessary (especially the last sentence, which has some POV in it). The first sentence of the second paragraph needs some sort of citation to prove that "the staff and administrators are all highly qualified". Otherwise, this sounds a bit dubious and gives off a vibe of POV (define "highly qualified"). Just my thoughts. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  ♣TC♣ 05:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll fix that a little later today, thanks! I have trouble catching POV problems all the time, let alone on an article about the high school I went to. The admin and teachers are definitely not all highly qualified, though. Don't know how I didn't catch that one... Khalfani  Khaldun  16:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Happy to help. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  ♣TC♣ 16:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

To do before FAC
I have finally finished updating the article from my sources... meaning there's technically just polishing left to do. A lot of this is based on Plano Senior High School, the only other FA I can find of a school like Manual. Here's the stuff I can think of right now:
 * Inline cite all the notable alumni individually (Plano Senior High School does this)
 * Make this article's infobox look like Plano Senior High School's (I'm hoping Khalfani khaldun will do this, technical stuff is not my forte)
 * Do about a million minor fixes made necessary by my mile-a-minute writing style :-)
 * Perhaps find a source for Manual/Male being the oldest HS rivalry west of the Appalachians. List of high school football rivalries (100 years+) claims it is but I can't find the CJ story it cites.

Anything else? I'm surprised at how fast this has all happened and hope to nominate for FAC soon. --Chiliad22 (talk) 20:37, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed 2 alumni
I looked everywhere but couldn't find non-Wikipedia sources for these two people being Alumni: If anyone can find a source, re-add these people. --Chiliad22 (talk) 21:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Chad Broskey - ✅
 * Kira Reed -
 * I'm not too concerned about adding Kira back in, because she didn't graduate from YPAS, even though she attended for some time. She ended graduating from an LA high school instead. While technically anyone who attended at some point is an alumnus, I think it might be better to still leave her out because people mistake alumnus to mean graduate all the time. Khalfani  Khaldun  22:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Questionable consensus and lack of guidelines-based rationale to remove see also
Reviewing the edit history of this article, before the current dispute over the added see also, I have completed 12 non-revert edits to this article, compared to the combined 7 non-revert edits to this article by those who reverted the see also. Further, no guidelines-based reason has been given for removal of the see also. According to WP:SEEALSO, "The links in the "See also" section should be relevant, should reflect the links that would be present in a comprehensive article on the topic, and should be limited to a reasonable number." The see also I added complies with this fully. The title (topic) of the section where the see also was added is "Notable alumni", which is straightforwardly translated to "People attending this metro area high school". In the vast majority of cases, people who attend a high school are from the area the high school is in. Therefore, it is reasonable that List of people from the Louisville metropolitan area be shown as a see also. Further, similar reverts were done on other high school articles based on "consensus" that was merely a disagreement between two editors, meaning those reverts used an openly dishonest rationale. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Only thing this sounds like is an assertion of OWN. And I can't help but notice no one is agreeing with you. That equals no consensus. I invite you to craft a nice neat RfC, so this can be addressed on all the articles you added it on. John from Idegon (talk) 04:25, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The only one who has demonstrated OWN is yourself. You haven't produced one guideline against this straightforward see also. That indicates that you think you OWN this article and are trying to stop something you don't like. Again, if you want to play the consensus game based on contributions to this article, you have no basis to say anyone has achieved consensus. You don't have it, and I don't have it.  All we have is a minor, reasonable change that you don't like for some reason nobody has seen yet.  Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 05:22, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Redeye
Is the high school's newspaper staff's uncovering of old 'inappropriate' police training material worthy of mention? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/training-manual-once-used-by-kentucky-police-quotes-hitler-urges-officers-to-meet-violence-with-greater-violence/ar-BB1azP2D?scrlybrkr=a64539b7 37.99.32.77 (talk) 04:14, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It can be hard to gauge if very recent stuff is actually notable in the scope of ~130 years of history. That said, it's probably fine to add a sentence... maybe focused on the paper's accomplishment rather than rehashing the politics. --Here2rewrite (talk) 23:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:DuPont Manual High School


text:
Hedge (disambiguation)

A hedge is a line of closely spaced shrubs planted to act as a barrier or boundary.

Hedge or Hedges may also refer to:

Places

 * Hedges, California, a former mining town in Imperial County, California, United States
 * Hedging, Somerset, a location in England
 * Hedges, Washington, unincorporated community in Benton County, Washington, United States
 * The Hedges, a historic building in New York state

People and fictional characters

 * Hedge (surname), a surname (including a list of people and fictional characters)
 * Hedges (surname), a surname (including a list of people and fictional characters)
 * Hedge Thompson (1780–1828), American politician from New Jersey
 * Hedges Eyre Chatterton (1819–1910), Irish politician
 * Hedges Worthington-Eyre (1899–1979), British sprinter
 * Hedge (character), a fictional character in the Old Kingdom series of novels

Other uses

 * Hedge (finance), an investment made to limit loss
 * Hedge fund, a type of investment fund
 * Hedge (linguistics), intentionally non-committal or ambiguous sentence fragments
 * Maclura pomifera or Osage orange tree, often called a hedge in the United States

title: Hedge (disambiguation)


text:
User:84denniswong

Hello
Hi~! I'm a graduate from HKU, working in HKU as well. An "expert" in Hong Kong's local transport. (haha)

How did I come to Wikipedia??
Thankful to my lecturer, Dr. Andrew Lih. I have attended a broadening course in my university - YJMS0001, lectured by him. In the course, Dr. Lih introduced us Wikipedia. And since then, I am attracted by it. I hope that Andrew can continue to spread Wikipedia to students. I am sure this is not only helping Wikipedia to grow, but the accumulation of knowledge as well.

title: User:84denniswong


text:
Hong Kong Visual Arts Centre

The Hong Kong Visual Arts Centre is located in Hong Kong Park, at 7A Kennedy Road above Central, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong. It was opened by Leung Ding-Bong, then chairman of the Urban Council, on 28 April 1992.

The centre encourages local art creation. It was restructured from an early 20th-century building called Cassels Block, a former barracks for married British officers of Victoria Barracks. It currently provides an area and facilities for local artists and includes modern artefacts and sculptures.

The historic building is listed as a Grade I historic building.

title: Hong Kong Visual Arts Centre


text:
Berklee College of Music

The Berklee College of Music is a private music college in Boston, Massachusetts. It is the largest independent college of contemporary music in the world. Known for the study of jazz and modern American music, it also offers college-level courses in a wide range of contemporary and historic styles, including rock, hip hop, reggae, salsa, heavy metal and bluegrass.

Since 2012, Berklee College of Music has also operated a campus in Valencia, Spain. In December 2015, Berklee College of Music and the Boston Conservatory agreed to a merger. The combined institution is known as Berklee, with the conservatory becoming The Boston Conservatory at Berklee. Berklee alumni have won 310 Grammy Awards, more than any other college, and 108 Latin Grammy Awards. Other accolades for its alumni include 34 Emmy Awards, seven Tony Awards, eight Academy Awards, and three Saturn Awards.

Schillinger House (1945–1954)
In 1945, pianist, composer, arranger and MIT graduate Lawrence Berk founded Schillinger House, the precursor to the Berklee School of Music, after quitting his job at Raytheon. Located at 284 Newbury St. in Boston's Back Bay, the school specialized in the Schillinger System of harmony and composition developed by Joseph Schillinger. Berk had studied with Schillinger. Instrumental lessons and a few classes in traditional theory, harmony, and arranging were also offered. At the time of its founding almost all music schools focused on classical music, but Schillinger House offered training in jazz and commercial music for radio, theater, television, and dancing. At first, most students were working professional musicians. Many students were former World War II service members funded through the G.I. Bill. Initial enrollment was fewer than 50 students, but by 1949 there were more than 500 students. In 1954, when the school's curriculum had expanded to include music education classes and more traditional music theory, Berk changed the name to Berklee School of Music, after his 12-year-old son Lee Eliot Berk, to reflect the broader scope of instruction.

Berklee School of Music (1954–1970)
Lawrence Berk emphasized learning from practitioners, as opposed to academics, and generally hired working musicians as faculty members. Several of the school's best-known musician-educators arrived after the school's name change. In 1956, trumpeter Herb Pomeroy joined the faculty and remained until his retirement in 1996. Drummer Alan Dawson and saxophonist Charlie Mariano became faculty members in 1957. Reed player John LaPorta began teaching in 1962. Like many of Berk's ideas, this practice continues. Although far more emphasis is placed on academic credentials among new faculty hires than in the past, experienced performers such as Gary Burton, Mick Goodrick, Pat Metheny, Arif Mardin, Aydin Esen, Hal Crook, Joe Lovano, Danilo Perez, and others have served as faculty over the years.

Also during the mid-1950s, the school began to attract more international students. For example, Japanese pianist Toshiko Akiyoshi arrived in 1956. Multiple Grammy-winning producer Arif Mardin came from Turkey to study at the school in 1958.

In 1957, Berklee initiated the use of technology in music education with Jazz in the Classroom, a series of LP recordings of student work, accompanied by scores. These albums contain early examples of composing, arranging, and performing by students who went on to prominent jazz careers, such as Gary Burton, John Abercrombie, John Scofield, Ernie Watts, Alan Broadbent, Sadao Watanabe, and many others. The series, which continued until 1980, was a precursor to subsequent Berklee-affiliated recording labels. These later releases provided learning experiences not only for student composers and performers, but also for students in the new majors in music engineering and production, and music business and management.

Berklee awarded its first bachelor of music degrees in 1966. Members of the first graduating class to receive degrees included Alf Clausen, Stephen Gould and Michael Rendish. Gould taught film scoring at Berklee and became the program director for the Educational Leadership PhD program at Lesley University. During the 1960s, the Berklee curriculum began to reflect new developments in popular music, such the rise of rock and roll, soul and funk, and jazz-rock fusion. In 1962, Berklee offered the first college-level instrumental major for guitar. The guitar department began with nine students, and developed into the largest instrumental major at the college. Guitarist Jack Petersen accepted an invitation by Berk to design and chair the first formal guitar curriculum. Berk discovered Petersen through his affiliation with the Stan Kenton Band Clinics. Trombonist Phil Wilson joined the faculty in 1965. His student ensemble, the Dues Band, helped introduce contemporary popular music into the ensemble curriculum, and later as the Rainbow Band, performed world music and jazz fusions. In 1969, courses in rock and popular music were added to the curriculum, the first to be offered at the college level. The first college course on jingle writing was also offered in 1969.

Berklee College of Music (1970–present)
The school became Berklee College of Music in 1970 and bestowed its first honorary doctorate on Duke Ellington in 1971. Vibraphonist Gary Burton joined the faculty in 1971, helping to solidify the place of jazz-rock fusion in the curriculum. As Dean of Curriculum from 1985 to 1996, Burton led the development of several new majors, including music synthesis and songwriting, and facilitated the school's transition to technology-based education. Curriculum innovations during the 1970s included the first college-level instrumental major in electric bass guitar in 1973, and the first jazz-rock ensemble class in 1974.

In 1979, Berklee founder Lawrence Berk stepped down as president. The board of trustees appointed his son, Lee Eliot Berk, to replace him. Under new leadership, the school underwent further growth and diversification of its curriculum. The college offered the world's first undergraduate degree program in film scoring starting in 1980. Beginning in 1981, the string department curriculum expanded to include many stylistic idioms besides classical music. In 1986, the world's first college-level major in music synthesis was offered, followed by the world's first college songwriting major in 1987. Instrumental majors also expanded to include the first college hand-percussion major in 1988. The college was also the first third-level institution in the world to offer a course in Electric Bass Guitar. While many conservatories offer a major in Double Bass, Berklee's former bass chair Rich Appleman was a pioneer in bass education and understood the impact this change could bring.

The number of international students has grown steadily to 24.2% of total enrollment in 2010 and 28%.

Berklee expanded its community outreach efforts in 1991 with the launch of City Music, a program designed to make music instruction available to underserved youth in the Boston area. On a global scale, Berklee partnered with selected music schools around the world to form the Berklee International Network in 1993. Other new majors, in Music Business & Management and music therapy, were offered beginning in 1994 and 1996 respectively. In 2003, the school began offering classes online through Berkleemusic.com, called Berklee Online under the leadership of Dave Kusek. Other curriculum developments included the incorporation of a hip-hop course in 2004.

In 2004, Lee Eliot Berk stepped down as president of the school his father had founded, and Roger H. Brown was installed as the college's third president. Under Brown's leadership the college's enrollment has grown and diversified, admission has become highly selective, and significant increases have occurred in the retention (above 80% in 2016) and graduation rate (above 60% in 2015). In 2006, mandolin and banjo were accepted as principal instruments for the first time. The college also initiated an Africana Studies program, the Berklee Global Jazz Institute, and an American Roots Music Program. In October 2013, Berklee Online launched its online degree programs, and began accepting applications for the Bachelor of Professional Studies in two majors: music production, and music business. In January 2014, the college launched the Berklee Institute for Creative Entrepreneurship (Berklee ICE), a new campus center which offers courses, workshops, research and an incubation environment to encourage music businesses startup companies.

In June 2015, Berklee College of Music and The Boston Conservatory announced that the governing boards for the two schools had approved plans to pursue a proposed merger. On January 19, 2016, the two schools announced that they would be merging. The agreement was signed the next day, with Berklee College of Music being renamed Berklee, and the Conservatory being renamed The Boston Conservatory at Berklee.

On October 22, 2020, Berklee announced its new president-elect, Erica Muhl, as President Brown announced his retirement. Muhl previously worked at the University of Southern California (USC), where she was dean and founding executive director of the Jimmy Iovine and Andre Young Academy for Arts, Technology and the Business of Innovation.

For the fall semester of 2020, the college taught classes remotely as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. The college then moved to a hybrid model learning system in the spring semester of 2021.

In August 2021, The Berklee College of Music announced it would begin offering a Bachelor of Arts program in Music Industry Leadership and Innovation starting in the fall of 2022. The program will be the first undergraduate Bachelor of Arts degree to be available in the college's history.

Sexual harassment allegations
In November 2017, The Boston Globe reported a culture of sexual harassment existed on the campus, with at least three male professors allowed to quietly leave the school in 2008 after student reports of sexual misconduct with teachers. Berklee's administrators released a statement saying, in part, that the college has rigorous policies and procedures in place to deal with claims of sexual harassment. On November 13, students staged a silent protest and class walkout to address the allegations of sexual harassment by teachers and staff. Also on November 13, college president Roger Brown addressed over 1,200 students, apologized to the affected students, and pledged to "root out abusive behavior." He also stated that the school has terminated eleven faculty members in the past thirteen years due to sexual harassment and sexual assault. The college has worked to strengthen policies to prevent sexual harassment and abuse and has taken a number of measures to create a better and safer environment, including instituting "training courses, creating a working group, and diversifying leadership."

Academics
Berklee College of Music is accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education (NECHE). The college stated that it was the first to offer online undergraduate degrees in 2002, and introduced graduate degrees in 2018, starting with programs in music production and music business.

Admission
Berklee's admission process is holistic; it focuses primarily on an audition, an interview, and on the applicant's academic record.

For the 2017–2018 school year, the acceptance rate for the Berklee College of Music Boston was 33.8%, for the Boston Conservatory it was 38%, and for Berklee Online it was 66%.

From 2014 to 2017, Berklee reported acceptance rates ranging from 28 to 36%. As of fall 2018, Admissions updated its applications reporting to count only paid applications. Previous years' totals includes all partial applications, regardless of status or payment.

Berklee offers three different terms for entering full-time students: the traditional fall semester, spring, and summer. Unlike other colleges, entering students may choose their own entering semester. Typically, the deadlines are November 1 (early action) and January 15 (regular action) for fall semester, July 1 for spring semester, and December 1 for summer semester.

As part of the application to the college, applicants are required to complete a live audition and interview. An integral part of selecting the entering class is the audition and interview experience, designed to show applicants' strengths while helping the school to assess applicants' talent and potential to succeed in Berklee's dynamic environment. Although there is a general format for the audition and interview, each experience is unique. Berklee considers all applicants for both admission and scholarship through the audition and interview process. Starting in 2014, the college will audition some applicants online using high speed internet technology.

Berklee is known for its high cost of attendance, with the yearly undergraduate cost without aid at $73,391. The high cost of attendance has forced many low-income students to quit after the first two semesters, or take out large loans, as the school offers very few merit-based scholarships, and close to no need-based grants.

Demographics
As of the 2021–2022 academic year, total enrollment at Berklee was 7,943 (7,177 undergraduates and 766 graduates). Among undergraduate students, 42% were female and 58% were male. Among graduate students, 46% were female and 54% were male. 73 students out of the total 7,943 identified as transgender or gender diverse. Students from 97 countries outside the U.S. accounted for approximately 25% of the student population. China, Canada, India, Brazil, and Colombia were the top five countries of origin. In addition to students attending the Berklee campus in Boston, in the 2021–2022 academic year, 1,895 students took online courses through Berklee Online.

Facilities

Berklee remained at its original location at 284 Newbury Street from its founding in 1945 to 1966, when it moved into the larger 1140 Boylston Street building, the former Hotel Bostonian. Beginning in 1972 an era of more rapid expansion began with the purchase of the Fenway Theatre and the adjoining Sherry Biltmore Hotel at 150 Massachusetts Avenue. The theater was renovated and opened as the 1,227-seat Berklee Performance Center in 1976. The former Biltmore Hotel provided additional classroom and practice room spaces and residence halls. It also houses the library, which was renamed the Stan Getz Library and Media Center in 1998. The 150 Massachusetts Avenue building is also the site of the Berklee Learning Center, which when it opened in 1993, was the world's largest networked computer learning facility for music education.

The Genko Uchida Center at 921 Boylston Street opened in 1997 and houses the offices for enrollment, admissions, scholarships and student employment, the registrar, financial aid, bursar, rehearsal and classroom space, and the 200-seat David Friend Recital Hall. At 939 Boylston Street, Café 939, the nation's only student-run, all-ages night club, hosts a full program of student performers, local and national acts, and community programs.

, Berklee occupied 25 buildings primarily in the Back Bay area of Boston, near the intersection of Boylston Street and Massachusetts Avenue. Within these buildings were 40 recording studios, 5 film/video scoring and editing facilities, and 9 music synthesis facilities. The studios of the five-channel, commercial-free Berklee Internet Radio Network (BIRN), which launched in 2007, were also housed on campus. A new Liberal Arts building at 7 Haviland Street was dedicated in 2010. It houses the Liberal Arts, Music Therapy, and Music Business Departments, as well as the Africana Studies program.

In early 2011, Berklee College of Music announced its plan of constructing 3 new buildings along Massachusetts Avenue. The first building, a 16-story mixed-use building at 160 Massachusetts Avenue that include 370 dorm rooms, a two-story cafeteria, a performance center, 14,000 sqft of recording studios, and retail space, opened in February 2014. The Boston Globe architecture critic Robert Campbell described it "as (a) very good building". The building received the American Institute of Architects' 2015 Housing Award, being named one of the best 10 residential projects of the previous year. The second building is planned to be built on top of the existing 130–136 Massachusetts Avenue (The Berklee Performance Centre). The new building is expected to house additional 450 students, as well as a performing center, in its 24-story tall structure. The third building is planned to be at 161–171 Massachusetts Avenue, which is expected to contain more academic and administrative space for the Berklee College of Music.

Berklee València

Berklee València is the college's first international campus, housed in the Palau de les Arts Reina Sofía. Queen Sofía Palace of the Arts is the final structure built as part of a grand City of Arts and Sciences concept designed by the Valencia-born and internationally known architect Santiago Calatrava, which began construction in 1995 and was opened on 8 October 2005.

Special programs and professional certificates
Berklee's campus in València regularly offers unique programs in contemporary music. These include clinics, workshops, and seminars as well as short, concentrated sessions in areas such as performance, flamenco, film scoring, music business, technology and production, and education.

It also offers a two-week summer performance program in addition to the five-week program in Boston.

BerkleeNYC
BerkleeNYC is the college's campus in New York. Housed in the Power Station studios in Hell's Kitchen, it offers a one year, three-semester, Master of Arts in Creative Technology.

Boston Conservatory at Berklee

On January 19, 2016, the Berklee and Boston Conservatory announced that they would merge under an institutional umbrella called Berklee, consisting of Boston Conservatory at Berklee, Berklee College of Music, Berklee Online, and Berklee Valencia.

Berklee Online
Berklee Online is the online extension school of Berklee College of Music. The school delivers access to Berklee's curriculum to students around the world.

Berklee Online's online music courses, multi-course certificate programs, and Bachelor of Professional Studies online degree programs are accredited and taught by the college's faculty and industry professionals. The school also provides free Berklee online music resources through Berklee Shares, massive open online courses (MOOCs) including Coursera, EdX, and Kadenze.

From 2005 to 2012, the University Professional Continuing Education Association (UPCEA) awarded Berklee Online with its Best Online College Course Award. Since its inception, Berklee Online has taught more than 30,000 students from 144 countries.

Former Berklee Online students include members of Nine Inch Nails, Dave Matthews Band (Stefan Lessard), Karmin (Amy Heidemann), Sugarland (Annie Clements, Brandon Bush, Thad Beatty), and Train.

Online degree programs
In October 2013, the online school began accepting applications for its 120-credit online degree in two majors: Bachelor of Professional Studies in Music Production and Bachelor of Professional Studies in Music Business. In November 2014, Berklee Online added three new degree majors to its Bachelor of Professional Studies program: Electronic Music Production and Sound Design, Music Composition for Film, TV, and Games, and Interdisciplinary Music Studies, a major that allows students to build their own program based on their musical interests and goals. Since then, the college has continued to expand its online bachelor's degree major offerings, adding Guitar, Songwriting, and Songwriting and Producing Music to the roster. The college is reportedly the first nonprofit music institution to offer regionally accredited bachelor's degrees online.

title: Berklee College of Music


text:
User:Endlessnameless

Hmm. I'm not much for introductions, but here goes. I've studied or otherwise been involved in (to various degrees) computer science, mechanical engineering, psychology, English literature, creative writing, and martial arts.

Interests

 * Computing
 * Psychology
 * Literature

title: User:Endlessnameless


text:
List of Finnish divisions in the Continuation War

List of military divisions – List of Finnish divisions in the Continuation War

This is a list of Finnish divisions that existed during the Continuation War, 1941–1944.
 * 1st Division
 * 2nd Division
 * 3rd Division
 * 4th Division
 * 5th Division
 * 6th Division – formed the 12th Brigade in 1942, reformed as 6th Division in 1943
 * 7th Division
 * 8th Division
 * 10th Division
 * 11th Division
 * 12th Division – formed 3rd Brigade in 1941
 * 14th Division
 * 15th Division
 * 17th Division
 * 18th Division
 * 19th Division – disbanded in 1942
 * Armoured Division – formed in 1942
 * Division J – formed in August 1941, disbanded in August 1942
 * 1st Coast Division – a Naval Forces unit, formed in July 1944