text:
Wang Zhizhi

Wang Zhizhi (, pronounced ; born 8 July 1977) is a Chinese former professional basketball player who was the head coach of the Bayi Rockets, the team with which he spent his domestic career in the Chinese Basketball Association (CBA). He also played in the National Basketball Association (NBA) for the Dallas Mavericks, Los Angeles Clippers, and Miami Heat, becoming China's first player to compete in the NBA.

Early and personal life
The son of two former basketball players, Wang Zhizhi started playing basketball at the age of 8, and when he was 14 his parents signed him up for the People's Liberation Army, considering the PLA to have the best coaching and facilities in China. He grew up watching weekly NBA game broadcasts on television in Beijing, idolizing Hakeem Olajuwon and Charles Barkley. Although Wang was born in 1977, when processing his travel documents, authorities instead represented his birth year as 1979 so that he could participate longer in youth athletics competitions.

Wang has been married twice. The first marriage was to Song Yang, a real estate agent from Haicheng, Liaoning. They were married from 2000 to 2016 and had a son named Wang Xilin who was born in April 2004 in the United States. He is currently following in his father's footsteps to becoming a professional basketball player. Wang Zhizhi is currently married to Zhou Lei, a television host from Chengdu, Sichuan. They had one private wedding at the end of 2018 followed by a second wedding in May 2019.

Early CBA career
Wang signed his first professional contract with the Bayi Rockets in 1994. When the Chinese Basketball Association staged its first season in 1995–96, Wang was one of the youngest players in the league, but he soon became a starter and key member on the star-studded squad.

From 1995–96 until his departure for the National Basketball Association after the 2000–01 season, he and the import-less Bayi Rockets won the first six CBA championships, but the team's dynasty was upended by Yao Ming and the Shanghai Sharks as soon as Wang left for the NBA.

NBA career
To the surprise of almost all Chinese basketball officials and reporters, the Dallas Mavericks of the National Basketball Association selected Wang with the 36th pick in the second round of the 1999 NBA draft. Dallas' assistant general manager Donnie Nelson had grown an interest in Wang ever since he spotted him in a 1993 game in Russia. Once Wang's agent Xia Song learned about Wang's real date of birth, which made him 22 and automatically eligible for the draft, he contacted Nelson and started arranging for his client to join the NBA. Xia was in Dallas on draft night, and had a proof of Wang's age through his old military identification. Unprepared and confused, the Bayi Rockets refused to allow their only center to leave for the National Basketball Association, at least immediately.

After long periods of negotiations, Wang was finally let go by his team and the Chinese basketball officials to pursue his NBA dream, two years after he was drafted. He became the first ever Chinese player to play in the National Basketball Association. Wang arrived in Dallas after winning his last CBA championship title when there were fewer than ten games left in the 2000–01 season. Despite some adjustment difficulties, Wang managed well by averaging 4.8 points per game and 1.4 rebounds per game, making the team's playoff roster. Two days after Dallas were eliminated from the playoffs, Wang hurried back to China to play in the 2001 East Asian Games according to an agreement formed between the Chinese authorities and the Dallas Mavericks. However, Wang still had one obligation to fulfill before being allowed to return to the National Basketball Association. His former club Bayi requested that he stay in China to play in the 2001 National Games in November 2001. Wang returned to Dallas after barely defeating Yao Ming's Shanghai team by one point in the final, but he found that he had a lot of catching up to do as other players already had two months of preparation and training.

Wang's contract with Dallas expired after the 2001–02 season. With his future up in the air, he decided that he would spend the summer in the United States, rather than returning to China for training, as the Dallas Mavericks had promised the Chinese basketball officials. Wang fired his agent Xia Song when the latter suggested otherwise, and following the advice of his American-born Chinese friend Simon Chan, moved to Los Angeles without telling either Dallas or his Chinese side about his intentions. During his stay, Chinese basketball officials faxed two letters to him urging him to return to China as soon as possible to train with the Chinese national basketball team. A major blow to all parties involved was an article by Jodie Valade that appeared in The Dallas Morning News which hinted that Wang, who had not yet stated his intentions, might consider defecting to the United States. China sent two military officials who had known Wang very well to go to the United States for a final negotiation. During a press conference, Wang stressed that the relationship between him and the Chinese was like one between "a son and a mother", and the conflict was all a big misunderstanding. He was ultimately dismissed from the Chinese national team for failing to return to China for practice in 2002.

Wang signed with the Los Angeles Clippers in 2002 and after a season with them, he was placed on waivers. The Miami Heat decided to sign Wang to a multi-year contract after picking him up. He became a free agent at the end of the 2004–05 season after playing for two seasons with Miami, over which he played 34 games and averaged 2.5 PPG.

Later CBA career
Following the 2004–05 season, Wang returned to China to rejoin Bayi in the Chinese Basketball Association, but would not be activated by the Rockets until the 2006–07 season. The impact of his return was immediate, as in March 2007, he led Bayi to their eighth CBA title. Wang was named CBA Finals MVP for the second time in his career as the Rockets beat the Guangdong Southern Tigers in the championship series.

He announced his retirement at the end of the 2013–14 season, but briefly returned to the court the next year, after Bayi went 0–7 in their first seven games. On July 12, 2016, Wang officially finalized his retirement from professional basketball. He had already become an assistant coach for the Rockets in 2015, and took over as head coach prior to the 2018–19 season.

National team career
Wang became the first ever Chinese player to be invited to play for the international squad against the best American high school players in the prestigious Nike Hoop Summit. He started the game and scored six points and six rebounds. He was then offered a basketball scholarship from John Thompson to play for Georgetown University. Wang was included in the Chinese national basketball team for the 1996 Summer Olympics, where he averaged 11.1 points per game and 5.6 rebounds per game, helping the team to finish as 8th place overall. After leading the Chinese national team to the 1999 FIBA Asia Championship title, Wang again starred for China in the 2000 Summer Olympics, averaging 13.5 points per game and 5.0 rebounds per game.

On 10 April 2006, following weeks of rumors from the Chinese media, Wang returned to China from the National Basketball Association after being expelled from the national team for four years due to conflicts with Chinese officials. He publicly apologized for his past mistakes and stated that he wanted to represent his national team in the 2006 FIBA World Championship as well as the 2008 Summer Olympics. Over a period of four weeks in the lead-up to the 2006 FIBA World Championship, he was a significant contributor to the Chinese national team in the absence of injured Houston Rockets player Yao Ming, scoring 4.3 points per game and 2.6 rebounds per game in eight matches before suffering a torn ligament during an exhibition against France in July 2006. Wang recovered in time to play in the tournament and averaged 8.2 points per game and 3.5 rebounds per game.

CBA statistics
Regular season and Playoffs combined

title: Wang Zhizhi


text:
Talk:Alyson Hannigan

Header
Alyson has been getting not-so-good reviews for her part as Sally in When Harry met Sally in London. Need to add something about this some time. --Phil 14:58, Feb 25, 2004 (UTC)

I have a pic of Alyson that I took and will gladly donate to the public domain. Not sure if it's too silly for Wikipedia though; see the original at http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/aly/aly_piepromo_la1.jpg (if it is used, I would crop it to remove the other visible people). Mike 06:44, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

$250,000 Salary
Is there a source for her having a $250,000 per episode salary? That sounds really high. I realize Buffy was fairly popular, but in its latter years it wasn't exactly a ratings juggernaut, it was even dropped by its B-Network (WB), and picked up by an F-Network (UPN), neither of which even exist anymore.

Seinfeld stars Jason Alexander (George), Julia Dreyfus (Elaine), and Michael Richards (Kramer) never even made that much, and they were the costars on the highest ratted show in history.

Dude, check your facts on the seinfeld cast. they were recieving multi-millions an episode by the end of their run. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.72.8.157 (talk) 02:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
I added a line (which was removed) about Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof appearing in costume as Tigger and Eeyore at the West Hollywood Halloween parade in 2001 because I saw them personally when I was there. I thought it was a nice tidbit; maybe someone would find it interesting. Is a personal observation not considered an official source? I didn't think it was controversial or libelous. If my witnessing them (and the crowd of hundreds of other people who also saw them) is not official enough, then I guess the comment should be left off. Otherwise, would someone create a trivia category and allow me to place the entry there? I just wanted to share what I saw. --Cheeriokole

Wikipedia requires sources, usually the written kind. I'm sure hundreds of people saw them, but unless there's a written source, or a photograph, it should be left out. And starting a trivia section just for this seems like overkill anyway.

Duribald 19:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

True. Belongs on a fan site or something like that. And you should see some of the crazy random stuff people add about celebrities. Like, someone would say they saw Paris Hilton wearing a blue shirt so that means her favorite color is blue. That's just an example, not actually posted. I doubt she would actually wear a shirt, covers her up too much, just kidding. --Cheeriokole

Could anyone get a decent photo of her?
I think Aly is beautiful and the photo does her no justice. Could anyone change it? I know some of you know better than me how the copyright thing goes. I don't want to upload or place the wrong image. But you get the idea. Abaraibar 09:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

--She holds a flute, there is nothing ironic about that. Pat yourself on the back for "clever innuendo", but it adds nothing to the site.

Just wondering would it be possible to get a flickr picture of Aly with her new hairstyle and hair color like this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/14795761@N00/2013235685/, you can keep the picture of her with her husband.RandMC (talk) 07:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Well the photo of Alyson you point to looks like a promo pic offhand, and as a result can't be used to replace the existing photo. But Flickr's a good place to look for photos. I would suggest reading this essay for advice on how to snag a free use photo for use here. Tabercil (talk) 22:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Tabercil, Thanks for the suggestion, I think the image looks promotional now that I look at it. RandMC 00:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, the current image looks candid, and is probably one of the best we have on Wikipedia. I commend the photographer. — trlkly 08:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree could someone PLEASE change this picture. She is a beautiful woman and this picture not only does her no justice it is barely recognizable as her. I thought the point of having a relevant picture at the top of the page was so people can easily look and see they have found what their looking for but I was not convinced I was on her page just by simple glancing...If I knew how the processed worked I would have already changed it myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chelsiekb (talk • contribs) 19:02, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Sacramento?
I've read that she bought a house in LA, not Sacramento, and it was reported incorrectly, but Google is littered with sites saying she bought a house in Sac. Can anyone back Sacramento up? What's the source? StargateX1 23:03, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, according to you, Google is littered with sites that say Sacramento. Where did you read LA? JackO'Lantern 23:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe she bought a house in Sac, but she lives in LA, so she doesn't actually live in Sac? StargateX1 01:01, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Lesbian Sex Scene
I've seen every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and never saw a lesbian sex scene. There was a scene which Joss Whedon wanted to symbolize it, but it still wasn't a sex scene. I think this comment in Trivia should be revised or removed. Paulistano 01:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)paulistano
 * So you never saw "Once more, with Feeling" I suppose? The "Under your Spell" section is pretty explicit... of course, it's not really trivia, and doesn't belong here, but still... JustIgnoreMe 21:31, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So you're of the impression that suggestive (whilst fully clothed and singing) is the same thing as explicit -- are we on the same Internet? 96.225.201.101 (talk) 07:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There's also "Vamp Willow"... the bisexual Vampire Willow from an alternate dimension, appears twice in the series, first appearance caused Willow to remark "And I think I'm kinda gay..." -- 24.121.158.150 (talk) 18:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The lesbian sex scene that everyone talks about is from Season 7ep20, Touched. It is a scene between the characters of Willow and Kennedy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepkep (talk • contribs) 05:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Personal Life
Where is the information regarding her personal life (ie marriages, children, etc)? Missjessica254 21:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

It now includes mention of her daughter and their birthday being the same. --RandMC (talk) 06:14, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

The text says that she is 'of Irish descent on her father's side and Jewish on her mother's' => That doesn't make any sense. Jewish states her mother's religion, not her ethnicity. She could be of (Jewish) Russian, (Jewish) German or whatever descent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.15.38.204 (talk) 21:42, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The 'Irish father and Jewish mother' part is really odd. It reminds me of this 'my mother was Russian, my father was a laywyer' guy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.232.217.145 (talk) 01:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion. One can be both or either. Hence Woody Allen, an athiest, is an ethnic Jew but not a religious one; and his children are ethnically half Jewish and half Korean.Patapsco913 (talk)

Sex Tape???
What about the alleged home (well, hotel) sex video?
 * Internet hoax, it's some adult actress. Garion96 (talk) 02:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * a very convincing actress —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.218.130.211 (talk) 04:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Convincing enough to convince me. 24.95.47.51 16:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It looked a lot like her... it really did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.39.15 (talk) 07:26, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but the fact is that it isn't her. No need to include it the article. 70.189.70.188 (talk) 13:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Supposedly it's Luna Lane. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Middleeasternfilms (talk • contribs) 23:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

 * It looks like a very young Alyson Hannigan in the clip maybe 18/19 years old - girls do mature physically quite a bit between late teens and mid-late twenties from whence we all know her. No-one can say for fact that it isn't her and she sure damn does look like a young Alyson Hannigan in several clips, even the smile. Mabuska (talk) 21:58, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia rules are clear in this instance: we need reliable sources before we even can begin to say anything about it, and nobody's pointed one out yet. Sorry. (And for my money, it ain't her). Tabercil (talk) 23:58, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it is not Hannigan, but indeed its Luna Lane. Hannigan is a little too old to have been in the 18-19 range when the clip was shot (very late 90s or 2000), and was already well known. Great video, though! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.163.90.86 (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Don't you wonder how a bot can rate an article? I do. David Spector 22:06, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Duncan Hines? How?
How was she in a Duncan Hines commercial in 1978 when she was born in 1979? Was there ultrasound footage or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.240.64.130 (talk) 07:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention that the birthdate listed is in 1983... —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteV1der (talk • contribs) 00:07, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Old vandalism that didn't get caught. Corrected it to 1974.—Kww(talk) 00:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Cameo
Didnt she once do a cameo appearance on ''Angel? --Stripy Socks (talk) 15:57, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the picture
Seriously? This is a horrible picture of her, she's a beautiful woman, and you oput a picture of her witt teeth, gums and all on the wikipedia page? Im looking if there is anything else on commons that has a better picture of her, or if i can find one with the correct license. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.125.69 (talk) 05:37, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it is a lovely picture.--EchetusXe 02:33, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The picture is a touch... odd. 203.143.248.114 (talk) 12:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I think the current picture File:Alyson Hannigan at HIMYM.jpg is too blurry. File:Alyson Hannigan 2.jpg seems like a better choice, as it's clear and better shows her face, including her eyes and smile.

 * —  Jeff G. ツ  17:58, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Well someone change the damn picture from what it is currently, she's way hotter than portrayed on Wikipedia, having that picture on Wikipedia is like having false facts on Wikipedia. It shouldn't be happening.

Simpsons
I can't find any information about her appearance in the twenty-second season premiere. It's not included in her IMDB article and the wikipedia article for the episode in question. Can anyone confirm her guest role on the Simpsons? Otherwise I'll remove it from the filmography list.

Elnauron (talk) 16:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

She's in the episode Flaming Moes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.34.222 (talk) 03:31, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

A better photo
http://www.rex-fox.com/wallpaper/alyson-hannigan/alyson-hannigan-29637.jpg

Just anything but the current one. It's awful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.230.52 (talk) 20:05, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree, it is a horrible picture79.112.117.1 (talk) 20:03, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Wording query.
Just a query relating to the line which says 'as a teenager she babysat for suchandsuch Sagel'. How can this be possible since she is about 15 years his junior? Should it not read something like 'she babysat for his children'? 109.76.96.23 (talk) 20:53, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. The connotations are that she babysat his children for him -- she worked for him, babysitting his children. The way you state it above isn't incorrect, but it's fine as it is. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:58, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Photo
We shouldn't be using a fair use photo in the article when we have others we can use. Dougweller (talk) 06:17, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment: Stalker

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'm raising an RfC question about the appropriateness of including information about a subject's stalker in a biography, in all cases. I see two issues: The alternative POV is that including stalker info is generally appropriate, based on precedent and custom. It is not disputed that stalker cases that result in serious crimes or other notable consequences, including wide public notice, may be appropriate content.Regionrat1234 (talk) 17:27, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * First, are we giving unwarranted recognition to the stalker?
 * Second, are we inflicting low-value trivia on the reader, if there is no unusual or noteworthy content to relate, beyond the basic existence of a stalker?

Why is the stalker section there? Any special reason why the stalker individual should get named on Wikipedia? Strikes me this might be perceived as rewarding his activities, a way of 'counting coup' on his target. Will delete unless there is good argument against.Regionrat1234 (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair point, but that's not the intent. We add any significant details that might've happen in their lives to further enhance the biography, like if Hannigan was awarded a signficant humanitarian award or if Hannigan was arrested for possession or something. If it's significant it's added in. Rusted AutoParts 20:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I then challenge the significance of this item. It is not something Hennigan has done, in the first place, like some achievement or behavior on her part. It is hardly unusual, alas, for celebrities to be stalked, and thankfully, at this point, no significant harm has been done, AFAIK. So I see this as a gossip item at best--and as I said, a wiki trophy for the stalker at worst.Regionrat1234 (talk) 22:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your concern, but it doesn't fall under gossip when its an actual true event that happened to her. We've noted stalker issues on numerous articles. It's info to contribute to the biography. Rusted AutoParts 03:36, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Goodness, that sounds a bit rude and patronizing, 'ol bean. I was expecting collegial talk, not a decision by some 'boss of the biography.'Regionrat1234 (talk) 04:57, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm more or less blunt, never trying to be purposely rude. Seeing as we're not face to face its hard for tone to be established. And I'm not making a "my decision is final" declaration, I'm just applying what we typically do with all biographies on this site. Rusted AutoParts 05:04, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks, don't mean to be prickly. Still see issues here--the Stalker Section in a case like this my be inflicting trivia on the reader, as well as giving undue recognition to a named stalker. Can you suggest a venue for raising this issue in a more general way, and considering modifications in the regular practice you describe?Regionrat1234 (talk) 05:50, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I'm responding to the RfC, and I have not otherwise been involved with this page. I would say either delete all of it, or at least delete the stalker's name. We could just say that she got a restraining order against a stalker. Giving the name of an otherwise completely non-notable person has the effect of giving a stalker some free publicity, while not providing anything useful to our readers. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:32, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Also responding to the RfC I would also say either delete all of it, or at least delete the stalker's name. Endorse everything else Tryptofish says. Why does anyone need to know this and if they do, why the name?Pincrete (talk) 17:19, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As RfC originator, I thank Tryptofish and Pincrete for their input. Others are encouraged to comment; any action I take will be consensus-based after the 30-day RfC period is up.Regionrat1234 (talk) 21:12, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Delete the info; also responding to the RfC. The only thing I could see passing for being notable is the existence of the incident, and even that's dubious; almost every public figure has had a stalker, what makes this incident notable? Did it receive significant media coverage or public discussion other than simple reports of the restraining order being issued? But even if a case is made for notability of the incident, the stalker's name is most certainly not. Jhugh95 (talk) 17:07, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - The information on the stalker does not add value to the page. As Jhugh95 stated, almost every public figure has at one point or another had a stalker. This is no different and isn't significantly notable. Also, the fact that the content has its own subsection is WP:UNDUE. Meatsgains (talk) 02:50, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Policy ref appreciated, Meatgains. It further looks like the subsection WP:BALASPS is relevant here, as it addresses how including recent news items can give them undue weight.Regionrat1234 (talk) 21:52, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Agree 100 percent. It does not belong. Meatsgains (talk) 22:19, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to all commenters. Based on fairly overwhelming consensus I feel confirmed in my judgement that the stalker section can be deleted, and I will now do that. A number of policies have been referenced, all pointing to the idea that this is not notable information that needs to be in Wikipedia. Regionrat1234 (talk) 20:15, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - This was a much reported on incident, with TMZ, Entertainment Weekly, E!, The Hollywood Reporter, The Los Angeles Times amongst the tabloids that reported on it. This type of info is seen in various other celebrity pages, like Steven Spielberg. I believe in consistency, so we post one's stalker history, we should for all. Remove the name if you'd like, but I feel like the info is useful. Rusted AutoParts 22:21, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete the name. as a blatant violation of BLP policy, to the extent that I'm prepared to rev del or possibly oversight. Since the matter is a crime, we cannot say anything further without an conviction. As he's a private individual, the existence of sources with the name does not over-ride this. Otherwise, since she is not a private individual, the report of the stalking should be included. I've removed the name, and I will consider it a blockable violation of BLP policy to restore it without consensus.    If there should be consensus here to restore, I'll discuss this with another oversighter. Local consensus cannot over-ride basic BLP policy. but in that sort of situation I do not want to act alone.  DGG ( talk ) 05:13, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Since the sources give the name, its not really possible to cite the incident without providing links to the name.  Although Google news is active, I don't see any hits on Google books, so maybe this should fall into WP:NOTNEWSPAPER until the sources show enduring interest.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:29, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete This seems to fall in WP:NOTNEWS and the name of the individual should definitely not be linked. Many celebrities have been stalked previously and we don't include every small detail. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 07:40, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not significant to the subject of the BLP, and per DGG a local RfC cannot override policy.(Littleolive oil (talk) 00:15, 7 August 2016 (UTC))
 * Delete It can be libellous for the stalker, and, if true, dangerous for the subject of the article. Stalkers tend to be immature emotionally, such that any attention at all can make the situation worse. I dream of horses If you reply here, please ping me by adding to your message (talk to me) (My edits) @  04:27, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. It trivia and kind of a WP:DONTFEED situation.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  19:04, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Removal explanation
Once again for the third time, here is my explanation of my removal:
 * There is no support for Hannigan being "Ashkenazi". None of the sources are that specific. They only say her mother is Jewish. WP:EGRS does not permit us to go outside the sources.
 * The source I removed does not even mention Hannigan. It is irrelevant to this article. I do not know why it was included, but the publisher may have replaced the original with a completely different story. 140.198.245.202 (talk) 22:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * where does the article mention Hannigan? She's not even in it! Nor does it say anything about ANYONE being "Ashkenazi"! Why did you restore it? 140.198.245.202 (talk) 22:11, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If you had said that in your edit summary, I probably wouldn't have reverted you. "Irrelevant" just is not very clear., you said "unexplained", but the edit you reverted did in fact provide an explanation. Drmies (talk) 00:32, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This article from October 17, 2003 discusses Jack Black and William Steig. Where does it mention "Alyson Hannigan" or "Ashkenazi"? Please let me know! 140.198.245.202 (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I put the URL into the Internet Archive and sure enough an article about Hannigan was replaced at the same URL. Here it says that Hannigan is Jewish "on her mother's side" and there is zero mention of "Ashkenazi", so this source is similarly useless at supporting the category y'all are trying to shove in here. Please provide a WP:RS for the category per WP:EGRS. 140.198.245.202 (talk) 22:16, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

yes, that was totally my bad; I don't know how I missed the edit summary. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It's OK--thanks for your response, cymru.lass. After reading the IP's comment I wish I had looked over the article history., thank you for commenting on the talk page, and for not a. taking this lying down; b. choosing all-out warfare. I appreciate you, Drmies (talk) 15:55, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Untitled
Why did she leave Penn and Teller? 108.35.203.183 (talk) 03:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Alyson Hannigan


text:
Talk:Divine simplicity

Untitled
Well that just has to be wrong. How would a Catholic theologian know such a thing? Because he has a mind like mine and .... Paul Beardsell 14:59, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

OK, well done, very much improved. Thanks, that explains it for me. Paul Beardsell 15:41, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Lead
Is there anything else that's generic enough to put in the intro? This article will never hit the Good Articles list with a single line lead. Could we also explore similarities with Tawhid in the intro and eliminate the dab link?. See WP:LEAD MrZaius  talk  14:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Secular parallels
Would links to related secular ideas be at all appropriate in this article? (This article is powerfully reminiscent of Pirsig's metaphysics of quality..) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.115.108.103 (talk) 00:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes please! Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 05:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

No context, no says-who!
The article lacks information on who proposed the hypothesis, from where it originates (prob the pagan platonism), and what christians adher to it. There are christians for everything, so there are prob also christians that dismiss the idea as a semantically designed taboo. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 05:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Sorry I misread, the article is better than that. The intro needs fixup to introduce the text properly and there are some rugged formulae that must be polished, f.ex.:
 * In Christian thought, God as a simple being is not divisible
 * I can fix such undue generalizations such as adding: "In mainstream Christian tradition". Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 05:58, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

"Infinitely simple"
!!!?? Just contemplating the weird usage of infinity! I'm glad to not be contemporary with Aquinas. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 09:34, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And
 * but a single entity of a oneness even more single and unique than any single thing in creation
 * ! (ROTF! – now thank me for my opinion and dismiss me!) Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 09:50, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but does this help? The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "When we say that God is infinite, we mean that He is unlimited in every kind of perfection or that every conceivable perfection belongs to Him in the highest conceivable way. In a different sense we sometimes speak, for instance, of infinite time or space, meaning thereby time of such indefinite duration or space of such indefinite extension that we cannot assign any fixed limit to one or the other. Care should be taken not to confound these two essentially different meanings of the term." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.191.87.42 (talk) 00:13, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, perhaps you should cunsult Q 11, article 4 of the Summa Theologica on this subject. It is "Whether God is supremely one?" 24.191.87.42 (talk) 00:16, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Christian divine simplicity
1) Does the article mention that, like Aquinas says, "God is the same as his essence"?

2) Has divine simplicity ever been infallibly taught, in Catholicism? Whether or not it has been should be in the article, too. 24.191.87.42 (talk) 00:07, 21 March 2012 (UTC) Answer: - It has, by the IV Lateran Council(1215), Decree against Albigenses and Cathars, chapter 1 (Denzinger-Hünermann, n. 800), and the I Vatican Council (1870), Dogmatic Constitution 'Dei Filius', chapter 1 (Denzinger-Hünermann, 3001).

3) The refutation of the criticisms to (Christian) Divine simplicity made by thinkers like Plantinga, Craig and others is to be found in Francisco Suárez, S.J., 'Disputationes Metaphysicae', disputation XXX, section III (Opera omnia, ed. Vives, volume 26).

Latest edit by 67.160.161.80 doesn't make much sense except as apparent vandalism. Please justify here, if reverting. Simplicity classically teaches Divine Essence is same as existence (see 1 above). Cpsoper (talk) 08:16, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Divine simplicity in Jewish thought
Have added short quote from Rambam to crystallise and exemplify the 'no Divine attributes' argument, I think this helps, but happy to discuss.Cpsoper (talk) 08:10, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Introduction
Helpful article, but it seems appropriate to identify a primary advocate, though not progenitor of Greek thought on Simplicity, one who drew from and interacted with the Alexandrian theologians and philosophers.Cpsoper (talk) 21:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Islamic thought
Simplicity has played a big part in Islamic theological discourse, it ought to be included here. I will try to supply a basic start. Cpsoper (talk) 13:59, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Divine simplicity


text:
Andy Hollis

Andy Hollis is an American video game designer, programmer and producer, mainly known for his flight simulators. He was one of the founding members of MicroProse.

Video game development
He began his career at MicroProse Software, where he was responsible for games such as Kennedy Approach, Gunship, F-15 Strike Eagle II, F-19 Stealth Fighter and F-15 Strike Eagle III, as well as science fiction titles Lightspeed and Hyperspeed.

In 1993, Hollis joined Origin Systems, where he was responsible for creating games for Electronic Arts' Jane's Combat Simulations brand. Among the simulations created at Origin are AH-64D Longbow, Longbow 2 and Jane's F-15. In 1996, GameSpot named him as the number five in their listing of the Most Influential People in Computer Gaming, "honored for helping to bring back serious flight simulations that don't alienate beginners." When Origin changed its focus to online games, he moved around within Electronic Arts and was working on NASCAR games and a Harry Potter online game.

He returned to Origin in 2003 after two years of retirement, where he oversaw the development of Ultima X, which was cancelled before release in 2004. Later, he served as president of Fastlane Games, Inc., working on the development of a massively multiplayer online game for NCsoft before retiring again in 2006.

Motorsports
Hollis has won a total of thirteen SCCA Solo national championships, and is an instructor for the Evolution Performance Driving School. He served on the Solo Events Board (SEB) and its various advisory committees for 20 years, and is a very active member of the SCCA's Solo program. In 2006, his seven straight class wins and two Super Challenge victories lead to the Overall Championship in SCCA ProSolo. In 2010, he repeated as Overall champ and added a Solo national championship in the STX class. 2011 brought another Solo championship, this time in STC. 2012 was another undefeated season in a new car and class (STF Mazda 2), with six straight Pro Solo class wins, a third Overall title and a fourth Solo championship. Notably, Hollis has won the Pro Solo Super Challenge 14 times, 13 of which have been in the last ten years. In 2014, he added an SMF class championship to his tally.

Continuing through 2014, Hollis has been a participant in the One Lap of America, finishing in the overall top ten for five years running. This, despite competing in a car from the slowest class. An avid track day enthusiast in the One Lap CRX, he instructs at a variety of road courses in Texas.

title: Andy Hollis


text:
W. E. N. Sinclair

William Edmund Newton Sinclair (June 28, 1873 – November 26, 1947), known as W. E. N. Sinclair, was a Canadian barrister, solicitor and interim leader of the Ontario Liberal Party.

Background
Sinclair was born in Whitby Township, Ontario, the son of John Sinclair, and was educated at Toronto University, receiving a bachelor's degree in law. In 1907, he married Ella Minerva Montgomery; he married Edna Worden in 1918 after his first wife's death.

Politics
Sinclair was first elected to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as a candidate of the Ontario Liberal Party in the 1911 provincial election but was defeated in 1914.

He returned to politics in the 1917 federal election on conscription (see Conscription Crisis of 1917), Sinclair ran on as part of the anti-conscription "Laurier Liberals" but was again defeated.

He returned to provincial politics and was elected again to the Ontario legislature in the 1919 provincial election as the MLA for the riding of Ontario South.

Sinclair ran for the leadership of the party in the 1922 leadership convention, but lost to Wellington Hay. Hay resigned following a disastrous election result, and Sinclair served as interim leader of the Ontario Liberal Party from 1923 to 1930 and also as Leader of the Opposition in the provincial legislature. He was interim leader for that length of time (and through the elections of 1926 and 1929) because of the party's state of disorganization and inability to hold a proper leadership convention.

The Liberals remained at the 14 seats they had in 1926, and dropped to 13 seats in the 1929 election. Sinclair initially decided to run for the permanent leadership in 1930, but because of the party's failure to make gains during his tenure, he attracted little support, and withdrew before balloting began. He remained Leader of the Opposition until the 1934 election because the newly elected leader, Mitchell Hepburn, did not have a seat in the provincial legislature. Sinclair was re-elected in the 1934 election that brought the Liberals to power but Hepburn, the new Premier of Ontario, did not appoint him to Cabinet. Sinclair sat as a government backbencher for three years and then retired from the legislature at the 1937 provincial election.

In the 1945 federal election, Sinclair was elected to the House of Commons of Canada for the Liberal Party of Canada. He died in office in 1947.

Sinclair also served as mayor of Oshawa from 1910 to 1911, in 1915 and from 1932 to 1934.

title: W. E. N. Sinclair


text:
User talk:Tex Albert

"Seychelles in the 21st Century: Understanding Legacies and Facing Present & Future Challenges."
A moderated open forum contributing pro-actively towards a synergistic dynamic to finding optimal solutions for the peaceful and viable well-being of all the people of Seychelles.

www.SeychellesConference.org

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title: User talk:Tex Albert


text: Template:Paralympic Games

title: Template:Paralympic Games


text:
Wellington Hay

Francis Wellington Hay (November 17, 1864 – April 1, 1932) was a grain merchant and Canadian politician.

Hay was born in Listowel, Canada West, the son of William G. Hay. He worked for the Federal Bank for three years before entering the family grain business. He was mayor of Listowel from 1903 to 1904. Hay was defeated by James Torrance for a seat in the provincial assembly in 1914; he won a by-election in 1916 and represented the provincial riding of Perth North until 1923. He served as leader of the Ontario Liberal Party in the provincial legislature from 1921 to 1923 but resigned after the one election campaign he led the party through saw the Liberals drop in representation from 27 to 14 seats. In 1926 he was elected to the House of Commons as a member of the Liberal Party but did not run for re-election in 1930.

His uncle David Davidson Hay had previously served in the provincial assembly. His brother J. Nelson Hay also served as mayor of Listowel.

title: Wellington Hay


text:
Talk:Gorilla

Pretty bad wiki read
Just trying to learn about family structure and this article didn’t really help? Is a silverback the boss of a or he’s group? Can we get some real structure information here please? 203.220.169.52 (talk) 12:30, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Heaviest gorilla entry seems incomplete.
I was surprised to see a vague "Males in captivity can be overweight and reach weights up to 310 kg (683 lb)" entry for the largest captive gorilla. Is there a reason that Phil isn't cited as the heaviest known captive gorilla? Reportedly he weighed 390 kg (860 lbs). I don't want to overstep and add this if there's a reason it hasn't been added. https://alexaanswers.amazon.com/question/07jIcV67Q3PoFUMSLf57zl 174.249.134.117 (talk) 03:48, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Omnivore?
Despite gorilla possess sharp fangs like carnivores, why gorillas are considered to be herbivores? Does someone knows that gorilla attack and eat humans?2404:8000:1027:85F6:1161:D2E3:C0E2:F420 (talk) 10:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Gorilla answers your question. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:49, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Are cows omnivores? rabbits? or are they herbivores? They both eat meat occasionally. I suggest the revert silliness cease and we accept that just as carnivores sometimes eat plants, herbivores sometimes eat animals. Greglocock (talk) 23:13, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Koko could not use sign language.
Sorry but this has been debunkened numerous times, repeating the falsehood under 'Intelligence' is embarrassing, could someone remove this claim? 185.104.136.54 (talk) 13:37, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

 * No. See Koko (gorilla). - UtherSRG (talk) 13:41, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You've linked to her Wikipedia page as evidence of ability, not sure how to break it to you... But Wikipedia isn't a source. 2A00:23C4:2292:DF01:FD02:6213:8517:5E1B (talk) 19:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See the numerous sources there that say she learned sign language. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See the other sources that dispute this. It's disputed. Admittedly, the half that say she could understand sign language are wrong, but still disputed. Therefore it shouldn't be referred to as fact on the main page for her species. 2A00:23C4:2292:DF01:FD02:6213:8517:5E1B (talk) 20:44, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Disputed is not the same as debunked. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Oldest gorilla
See: https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2024/4/a-day-in-the-life-of-the-worlds-oldest-gorilla-fatou-aged-67-768835 Pieter53 (talk) 16:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gorilla


text: Template:Iron Duke class battleship

title: Template:Iron Duke class battleship


text: Template:VishnuAvatars

title: Template:VishnuAvatars


text:
Điện Biên province

Điện Biên is a province in the Northwest region of Vietnam. It is bordered by Lai Châu to the northeast, Sơn La to the southeast, Pu'er City, Yunnan, China, to the northwest, and Phongsaly province in Laos to the west. The province covers an area of about 9539.93 km2 and as of 2022 it had a population of 635,920 people.

History
The name "Điện Biên" means "stable frontier" (referring to Điện Biên's location on the border between Lan Xang and Vietnam). Điện Biên has various ancient monuments including the caves Thẩm Khương, as well as Thẩn Búa in Tuần Giáo. The original settlers were the Ai Lao or Tai people who are a direct ancestor of Lao people in Laos today. The names of some villages and towns still use words of Tai origin, such as Mường (city) and Tham (cave).

In the 9th and 10th centuries, the Lự in Mường Thanh were the most developed in the area and controlled Sìn Hồ, Mường Lay, and Tuần Giáo.

In the 11th and 12th centuries, Tai people (not to be confused with the Thai people of Thailand) from Mường Ôm and Mường Ai occupied Mường Lò in Nghĩa Lộ and Mường Thanh in Điện Biên. They eventually gained control of the whole area between Mường Lò and Mường Thanh (Điện Biên).

Places
Chua ta cave: Located at an altitude of nearly 1,000m above sea level, in a limestone mountain range with a geological tectonic process of millions of years, Tham Khen cave in Muong Dun commune, Tua Chua district has also been recognized by the Ministry of Culture. Sports and Tourism ranked national relics and scenic spots according to decision No. 3086/QD-BVHTTDL dated October 27, 2020. In addition to being unique like other caves, Chua Ta cave also has two typical types of ecosystems: Limestone mountain ecosystem and cave ecosystem. This place converges the diverse properties of nature.

Climate
Điện Biên province has a humid subtropical climate (Köppen Cwa).

Administrative divisions
Điện Biên is subdivided into 10 district-level sub-divisions:

They are further subdivided into five commune-level towns (or townlets), 116 rural communes, and nine wards.

Places in Điện Biên

 * Mường Thanh Valley

title: Điện Biên province


text:
Talk:List of people whose names are used in chemical element names

Deleted Cerium
I deleted Cerium because it is not named for a person; it is named for the asteroid Ceres. The page Chemical elements named after places already has a list of elements named after astronomical objects, which includes Cerium. If Cerium were to be included here, then Helium, Selenium, Uranium, Neptunium, and Plutonium should be also. But again, they are named after astronomical objects, not after deities.

Similarly, I deleted Samarium, which is named for the mineral Samarite. Samarite is named for Colonel Samarski, but the element is not.

-- Dominus 15:30, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * In which case they can be included as a "Note" section or a link be given to the pages where the entries are. My idea of the page is to list entries that are "derived from names of people", which could also be at a stage of derivation not necessarily the first one, as long as the derivation is explained. Duplication of entries in multiple pages should not be a concern. Does the idea sound OK or would it be plausible after a list title change ?

 * The idea is that the entries are of encyclopedic value and matches the essence of this page, even if not an exact interpretation of the title. Jay 17:21, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * They aren't named for (= at the request of), they're named after (= in honour of) or named from (= by similarity to). So Gallium is named after France but also for Lecoque; Samarium is named from Samarite, which is in turn named after Colonel Samarski (unless he specifically requested that the mineral bear his name). - MPF 17:26, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I say we should err on the side of including excess information instead of erring on the side of being pedantic buttholes, as is so often the case here in wiki-editorspace. Sys Hax 23:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of chemical elements named after people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:33, 3 July 2021 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Ardipithecus

Link suggestions
An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Ardipithecus article, and they have been placed on this page for your convenience. Tip: Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add to this page. — LinkBot 01:00, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Links added. - UtherSRG 16:18, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)

faster bipedalism?
umm, surely bipedalism renders the creature slower not faster.
 * Depends entirely on what creatures you are comparing.

Any four footed creature can run faster than a two legged primate.
 * Nope. Chameleons, tortoises, etc, are much slower than two-legged primates.

Surely the advantage of bipedalism is the ability to see further, since the eyes are higher? The evolutionary advantage of early bipeds was to hunt intelligently in groups, in the way chimpanzees can, not an ability to outrun something!! Another possible advantage of bipedalism is that you present a smaller area to the sun, and dont overheat in the daytime.

I see no evidence to support the idea that early bipeds could outrun even a small cat. Neither could we outstamina anything, outclimb anything, or out stealth anything. All we could do was outsmart the opposition!

Lincolnshire Poacher
 * And you can carry stuff around too. Lots of good things about walking instead of crawling.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

 * There was only a couple of energy advantages. Everything else was affected negatively. Although yes, later the standing upright did allow early humans to use tools. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.77.242 (talk) 07:03, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

don't discount bipedalism
Human walking is extremely efficient. No chimp can could come remotely close to the ability of a human to walk long distances while using little energy.

Daggers
Why are there dagger symbols next to each of the species? Can they be removed? Badagnani 00:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Those indicate extinct. Do not remove them. - UtherSRG (talk) 01:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

References Badly Needed
I can't believe an article as important as this one includes no references. Please help supply some ASAP. --1000Faces (talk) 18:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Conflicts
The article says that A. ramidus is "not considered a hominid ancestor," yet goes on to discuss how discovery of ardipithecus' bipedal traits challenge "current theories of the origins of hominid bipedalism." There is conflict within the statements of the article as to whether this Ardipithecus should be considered a hominid ancestor, and the sources cited appear to be in direct comflict on this issue. Aramink (talk) 00:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

The section headed "Criticism" mentions (without sources) that there are contentious accusations in the scientific community over the study of the creature, period. Perhaps a clarification of the conflicts and an explanation of what data is being withheld, and by whom, would give the reader of this article more information.Aramink (talk) 00:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Ardi
The section on the recent (Oct 2009) discovery of "Ardi" needs expanding. The National Geographic article I cited contains much more discussion and speculation about the locomotion and behavior of A. ramidus, which could be incorporated into the "Lifestyle" section. Likewise, the cited article contains discussion about the "missing link" and an extra "previously unknown" period of human evolution. — Loadmaster (talk) 16:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Ardi is not a "new" find. It is the original Ardipithecus fossils.  What is happening is the scientists researching those fossils are about to publish the results of their decades of research.  Some reporter apparently got excited and printed that they had some big new find, and the rest of the media ran with the "new find" angle.  Here are some links to the actual scientific publication:

 * News release
 * http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2009/1001sp_ardi.shtml

 * Central article collection point:
 * http://www.sciencemag.org/ardipithecus

 * Interview with lead researcher (audio):
 * http://sciencevideo.aaas.org/aaas/news/releases/2009/media/1001science_interview.mp3

 * Transcript of interview:
 * http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2009/1001sp_ardi_interview.shtml

 * Summaries of articles:
 * http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2009/1001sp_ardi_summaries.shtml

 * Press backgrounder:
 * http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2009/1001sp_ardi_backgrounder.shtml - Oralloy (talk) 19:30, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I have expanded the paragraph with a reference to the long period of study since the discovery, and the current announcement of its details. Should I say that the first analysis is complete and the discoverers are ready to place the skeleton in its proper context, or would that be an opinion? —--Monado (talk) 17:05, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Oldest human ancestor
Regarding oldest fossil skeleton of a human ancestor:

This is completely wrong -- the oldest fossil skeletons of a human ancestor are probably early bony fish-like creatures. But I grok what the article is trying to say, I just don't know enough to repair it. Something like "earliest identified fossil skeletons of non-tree-dwelling hominid ancestors of humans"? But not that phrase. :-) Can someone clean that up -- syntactically and semantically -- and edit the page?  Joshua McGee (talk) 02:39, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

 * On a re-read, it is (kinda) attributing the text to the team. Does someone have a direct quote? And if the quote is imprecise, could we have both a proper citation and a scientific elaboration of the significance of this find?  Joshua McGee (talk) 05:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Agree it's bullshit, but it is in the source National Geographic article. Perhaps the whole section could be replaced with one based on scholarly sources instead of popular media. BTW it's impossible to say whether any fossil skeleton is of a human ancestor or not. It may be a representative of a species ancestral to h.sapiens, but that is a different statement. Qemist (talk) 11:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Science meets hollwood. Ardi looks like a less expensive edition of Ida. Wapondaponda (talk) 05:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Eleven new articles in a special section of Science
There is a special section of the journal Science on Ardipithecus that just appeared online yesterday. http://www.sciencemag.org/ardipithecus/ This special section includes eleven new papers. Cheers, Edhubbard (talk) 14:33, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

 * I just finished reading a big part of it. Each of the 11 research articles is summarized in a less-technical author's summary, and there are two good news summaries and an editorial besides. The author's summaries seem to be free on line. They're very good, very comprehensive, and relatively easy to understand. --Nbauman (talk) 03:28, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Life restoration
There is a life restoration of A. ramidus (based on the newly described material) that has been submitted for review at WikiProject Palaeontology's Paleoart review. Anyone is welcome to provide their input on it to make sure that the restoration is anatomically accurate before it is uploaded and put into the article.

Alternatively, someone could attempt to get permission from Science via email that would allow for some of the figures in the special issue to be used in the Wikipedia article. Smokeybjb (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Ardi question
Ardi is referred to in some of the newspapers as 'a woman': at what point in the development of hominides is the transition from 'female of species X'/'male of species Y' to 'woman' and 'man'? Jackiespeel (talk) 22:10, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

BBC quote
Says the BBC:

 * Asked whether A. ramidus was our direct ancestor or not, the team said more fossils from different places and time periods were needed to answer the question.

 * "We will need many more fossil recoveries from the period of 3-5 million years ago to confidently answer that question in the future," the scientists said in a briefing document that accompanied their journal papers.

 * "But if Ardipithecus ramidus was not actually the species directly ancestral to us, she must have been closely related to it, and would have been similar in appearance and adaptation.

Is this actually a quote from something that I can link to? I can't track down this "briefing document"... Evercat (talk) 18:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

"canine cutting complex"

 * the presence of a "canine cutting complex"

What's this? There's no such phrase in the cited paper. Evercat (talk) 19:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Meaning of Ardipithecus ramidus?
The article explains that kadabba comes from the Afar word for "basal family ancestor". What is the etymology of the words Ardipithecus and ramidus (in English, please)? It would also be good if you could cite the source(s). --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 00:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added the requested information with this edit. Emw (talk) 02:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Illustrations
I think we need some illustrations of Ardipithecus. I mean, there is a ton of great illustrators here on Wikipedia, like ArthurWeasley, for instance. Markunator (talk) 18:07, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There is an illustration that I have made of Ardipithecus that is awaiting review (see the "Life restoration" section of this talk page), and will be put in the article once it is made sure to be accurate by other editors. Smokeybjb (talk) 18:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, please head over to the review section for that image, people, most of the reviewers on the paleontology project are unfamiliar with non-human primate anatomy, I assume. AW has retired, by the way, but he never drew primates in any case. FunkMonk (talk) 17:25, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

A. ramidius or Ar. ramidus?
Science magazine uses Ar. ramidus. Anybody know why? Which one should we use? --Nbauman (talk) 03:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I presume it would be to differentiate it from the genus Australopithecus, which is mentioned in the same article. Australopithecus has historical precedence. If both are used in the article (and it appears at this time that is true), then Ar. should be used for consistency. SkoreKeep (talk) 15:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Restore summary?
I want to restore this edit and use it as a summary. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ardipithecus&action=historysubmit&diff=324679505&oldid=324660079

I had a long discussion about this with Evercat on my talk page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nbauman#Ardi_etc

Basically, my summary follows the summary in Science magazine. These are the issues that White and Lovejoy emphasized, and also the issues that the editors of Science magazine emphasized as important in their summary: Specifically, that (1) humans are not descended from chimpanzee-like ancestors, as some anthropologists, like the ones White cited, maintained; and that (2) the main significance of Ardipithecus is in the insight it gives on reproductive and social behavioral changes -- the things that make us human.

Don't forget, Wikipedia is written for the average person, not the specialist. These details about the geological strata and millions of years are meaningless to the average person. The average person couldn't define "hominin". The important message for everyone -- as White and Lovejoy keep emphasizing -- is the meaning of Ardi for our understanding of the social and behavioral evolution of humans.

I'd like to know how other editors feel about this and if anyone objects. --Nbauman (talk) 00:17, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Note that this is still substantially there; I just reworded part of it, added a caveat about the dangers of using Ardi as a proxy for the MRCA of chimps and humans, and moved it down. Are you happy with the paragraph as it stands? I don't really mind it being moved upwards. Evercat (talk) 17:21, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Brain size
Is this quote right? "... & slightly over 20% the size of the modern Homo sapiens brain."

Ardipithecus had a small brain, & yet its bigger than modern homo sapiens? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.130.4.15 (talk) 01:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

 * I meant that Ardipithecus's brain was something like 20.4% the size of a typical human brain. However I see how readily that can be misinterpreted (e.g., 20% over (i.e. greater than) the size of the modern human brain), so I've rephrased it to "roughly 20% the size". Thanks for pointing that out. Emw (talk) 02:57, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Bidepalism
Bipedalism had the advantage of allowing Ardipithecus to carry more food. This meant that they could also provide for their partner and offspring. Which helped with the survival and success of the species. (Source: Discovery Channel Documentary)

Yes, bipedalism is probably a more efficient way of getting around, and so less energy and food is required. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.130.4.15 (talk) 02:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

True, but only by a little. Also if your sourcing Walking with Cavemen its bbc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.77.242 (talk) 07:14, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Ardipithecus kadabba
Ardipithecus kadabba is "known only from teeth and bits and pieces of skeletal bones", and is dated to approximately 5.6 million years ago. The sources for this first sentence in the section are not talking about A. kadabba but of A. ramidus. Can someone clear this up?  Sy  n 05:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

"Surface finds"
Says the 1994 article at :

 * All hominid specimens were surface finds located in the section within 3 m of the Daam Aatu Basaltic Tuff. The immediately underlying Gaala Vitric Tuff Complex is dated at 4.39 +/- 0.03 Myr.

Someone wrote that this means the bones were not between layers, but I'm unclear that it means this at all. I take it that, depending on the shape of the geology, bones can be at the surface and be between layers? Evercat (talk) 12:43, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Amazing weasel job!
Despite the possibility that Ardipithecus is a direct ancestor to modern humans has [[been eliminated] this article never bluntly says so in simple language that a lay person would understand. Leaving most people to believe the "missing link" headlines from the news media and glance over these articles to confirm this erroneousness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.58.43 (talk) 22:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

 * That newspaper article is about A. afarensis, not ardipithecus. Normally the right response to a complaint like this is "then change it!", but in this case it might be better that you didn't, given that you're talking about another species.  :-)  Joshua McGee (talk) 22:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

 * ✅ I've described the relation to Homo as "disputed", backed by a cited academic source. If you think it is refuted beyond the reasonable scientific doubt, please provide a more reliable source. --Kubanczyk (talk) 16:14, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

roughly 20% the size of the modern Homo sapiens brain ????
Of course, the 300 to 350 cm3 of the Ardi's brain is about 37% of the Homo sapiens brain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.129.241.130 (talk) 21:46, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

 * I find that the human brain size is 1130-1260 cm^3, thus 300-350 cm^3 is 23.8-31%. Of course. SkoreKeep (talk) 16:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

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paragraph-long quotations should be indented
There are at least two paragraph-long quotations that should be indented (for purposes of clarity). I tried to indent one of them but apparently I didn't know how to do this properly. Sorry about that. If someone could indent this and the last paragraph of the article it would help make clear to readers that these entire paragraphs are quotations. Radphilosophe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Radphilosophe (talk • contribs) 00:21, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
 * These long quotations should also be re-written. I have flagged the section as improper usage of non-free text. Long quotations are simply lazy writing. The pertinent info should be summarized in order to avoid copyright violations, as the text quoted is NOT CC-licensed. --Animalparty! (talk) 00:54, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Also, having two fair use in a gallery certainly isn't proper. FunkMonk (talk) 01:11, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Source-Check
Very nice use of sources in the evidence you've presented. The articles I was referred to did a thorough job of further explaining scientific evidence presented.

title: Talk:Ardipithecus


text:
Talk:Kenyanthropus

Untitled
This article reads more like a Meave Leakey press release than scientific reporting. Without attribution or support, it lists as facts many assertions still widely contested, such as that these fossils represent a new species, let alone a new genus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.106.11.172 (talk) 23:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello! I added some information to the Kenyanthropus platyops article. As it was, the article was short, and did not include the anthropological significance of the find. I attempted to create a re-direct from Flat-faced man to Kenyanthropus (a term with which the non-anthropologist individuals would be most familiar), but I couldn't get it to work. Would someone else give it a try? I'll check back later. Thanks! Firecircle (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Done. All you need to do is create a link someplace like this: Flat-faced man. then follow the link and add the redirect info. (Go here to see what it looks like.) - UtherSRG (talk) 22:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Firecircle (talk) 23:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC) Hey, great! I tried it and it works great. Thanks for the help and the info (as well as the fast response). Firecircle (talk) 23:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Auto writes.

"Taxonomy

The fossils of Kenyanthropus platyops indicate that hominins were more taxonomically diverse during the middle Pliocene."

Ummm - 'more taxonomically diverse - than - what, exactly, please? Possibly H. sapiens today, which may not indicate huge diversity. . . ..

Auto wrote. 2014 07 05 2141 Z.  81.157.245.112 (talk) 21:41, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Australopithecus platyops
The justifications presented for sinking this into Australopithecus are terrible. Is there any primary literature that suggests this? 23.242.48.53 (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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Its discoverers distorted science to prove speciation
It was a subspecies of Australopithecus afarensis. Due to climate change we had less species. Even if one actual evolutionalry branch survived, that doesn't look weird. Climate change had a huge impact because it forced plants also to change. Bottleneck phenomena can be explained. Skeleton differences doesn't mean that at rare occasions these species didn't copulate. If they copulated sparsely over millions of years... that isn't actually a sparce phenomenon, but a non immediate panmictic phenomenon. Non immediate panmixia which has some patterns, is an extremely crucial evolutionary tool, for example your particular subspecies that way, might get immunologically more robust, but without to become silly (by not getting the retarded brain genes = wrong timing of neuronal cell motions [because many cerebral cells travel inside the brain], and wrong timing of axonal branching in the brain, different patters of branching and slightly different neuroendocrinology) as the other species that finally got extinct. You get periodically extremely few genes of the other subspecies. But for millions of years (thus the impact is huge, but the rare patterns of mingling are beneficial - it acts as a sieve/a filter of non beneficial genes).
 * the partonizing part of the theory I mentioned (superior race of "us") is wrong but they created a patronizing theory against another patronizing theory

Things are probabilistic and statistical... After 3 million years of separation, species copulate extremely rarer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2149:8453:800:75BA:931C:93AA:4BD1 (talk) 00:03, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

rudolfensis
No mention of the fact that some scientists think Homo rudolfensis should be assigned to Kenyanthropus? 216.255.165.198 (talk) 16:43, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Australopithecus predating Australopithecus ??? The cake's older'n the cake....
A. bahrelghazali, Ardipithecus, Orrorin, and Sahelanthropus, which has complicated discussions of hominin diversity,[3] though the latter three have not been met with much resistance on account of their greater age (all predating Australopithecus)

Oops, no, reading it three times over I guess I understood. It's three other genera predating the later genus Australopithecus. MistaPPPP (talk) 22:27, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kenyanthropus