text:
Wiktionary:Grease pit/2019/June

Category text fix needed
See Category:Margaret Thatcher and note a missing quote mark in the line "Subcategories named like...". I went to "edit category data" but could not see this string. Equinox ◑ 13:06, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I did a search in the module namespace and found it. . — Eru·tuon 15:47, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Entries still appearing in "Category:English noun plural forms"
"Category:English noun plural forms" was deleted as redundant to "Category:English noun forms" pursuant to your discussion at "Requests for moves, mergers and splits", but the use of is still categorizing entries into the deleted category. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:16, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I see, we're supposed to use now. Perhaps this should be pointed out at "News for editors". — SGconlaw (talk) 17:20, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Just saw this. The use of will necessarily categorize into Category:English noun plural forms; in general  will categorize into Category:English foos. It's always worked this way. I guess you're suggesting that News for editors should say that you should use  instead of  when creating new entries? Feel free to modify that page appropriately, I won't object. Benwing2 (talk) 02:11, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * OK. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:57, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

fixing lua out of memory errors
hi, is there any solution to the "Lua error: not enough memory" on pages like a, do, or any of the rest in Category:Pages with module errors? they have been there for a while now.

for swahili a, i was thinking about moving the entry to a/sw and then transcluding it onto a, with a message that if you see out of memory errors you can click a link to the subpage which should fix it. would that be a kosher solution? i'm thinking about going through with it but don't want to do it if my a/sw page will be deleted. --Habst (talk) 14:27, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Transcluding from a subpage a/sw wouldn't help the main page a. No matter where the content comes from, the main page still has to have enough memory to render it. But moving the entry to a subpage would allow it to be viewed on the subpage though. — Eru·tuon 15:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * thank you and yes, i know it wouldn't help the main page but it would at least make the entry viewable with an extra click. i did my best to implement it over at a and a/sw, so hopefully my solution is sound and it works out. --Habst (talk) 16:08, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I am getting a huge number of these errors when attempting to load " ." Nicole Sharp (talk) 12:36, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * hi, it's happened for as long as i can remember, and the only way i know of to work around it is to do what i did above for swahili. --Habst (talk) 14:18, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, yes, I see that " " works but " " does not. It would be really great if someone can design a bot to automatically generate those subpages.  The best way to do it would be to use Labeled Section Transclusion to label each language section, and then have the subpages transclude the sections from the article page, so no content is actually duplicated, and the subpages remain consistent with the main article page.  Nicole Sharp (talk) 14:24, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Though actually the opposite would work out better technically (putting the content for each language on subpages, and then transcluding the subpages onto the main article page). Editors can then not have to deal with the errors by editing the subpages instead, and their edits are automatically transcluded onto the main article page.  Nicole Sharp (talk) 14:30, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Constructing {az-ipa}
I am looking for somebody who can help me to construct an IPA-module for Azerbaijani pronunciation. All phonology needed to convert strings of Azerbaijani graphemes into IPA representations are here. Ketiga123 (talk) 11:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

request for fair use non-free image upload for Kappa
hi, i was wondering if an administrator could upload this low quality image with the fair use rationale i wrote at User:Habst/Kappa for use at the Kappa article. as the picture being defined, i think it's necessary to have this image in the definition somewhere. thank you, --Habst (talk) 01:27, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I think we don’t permit fair use images at this project. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * We do have a very few, e.g. at Citations:thagomizer. —Mahāgaja · talk 12:11, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * As an administrator, I'm not even sure how to do this. When I click on the "Upload file" link it goes straight to the Wikimedia Commons. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:29, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You can go straight to Special:Upload and upload from there. But as long as we don't have a fair use policy here, we probably really shouldn't upload any new nonfree images. Even File:Far Side 1982-05-28 - Thagomizer.png probably violates Wikimedia policy, but it survived two RFDs back in 2012, and by now I guess no one cares. —Mahāgaja · talk 16:22, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, right. Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:49, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It might be a good idea to clean up the entry (See WT:RFC.) and make sure that any image meets minimum standards for visibility as the one above does not, IMO. In any event, I don't see any smirk on the image at its current size. DCDuring (talk) 17:24, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * hi and, yes, admins can still upload images to wiktionary by going to Special:Upload so i was wondering if you could do that with my fair use rationale linked above for this image. i think this process is technically covered in policy by WT:Images, although seldom used. i also responded to the cleanup request and i think the page is in good shape, but only requires the image to complete the definition.
 * also, as for standards for visibility -- the 25x28px image is actually the most common way to view Kappa as it is usually displayed inline with text, used as a word. higher-quality renditions are rare, and might be misleading in the definition because that's not how the symbol is most frequently viewed. i think some people use Kappa without even realizing the picture is of a smirking man -- the smirking detail is of interest to the etymology and maybe the description, similar to how many Chinese symbols have an etymology not known to many speakers, but it doesn't belong in the definition.
 * let me know if you guys have any further questions or concerns, because i do think adding this image would be a great step forward to getting the most used words in online language on wiktionary. --Habst (talk) 01:51, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , i also wanted to add that EDP explicitly says that nonfree content is allowed here, and i now see that there is in fact a whole set of guidelines at Non-free content criteria. i think my rationale at User:Habst/Kappa meets all those requirements, so policy-wise i think we should be set here. i edited the WT:Images page to link to the NFCC to help clarify things. --Habst (talk) 03:18, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * We greatly prefer that all image licensing be handled by Commons as we are not set up to evaluate claims of non-free content. Please upload it there. DCDuring (talk) 04:58, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Non-free content criteria is not an adopted policy. It is a draft. DCDuring (talk) 05:01, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * hi, i mentioned this on the rfc page but i wanted to clarify that it is impossible to upload the kappa image to commons because non-free images are not allowed on commons at all, even under fair use. that's why it needs to be uploaded to wiktionary, i am not just trying to upload it to wiktionary because it's allowed, i'm doing it because it is unfortunately the only option.
 * i also see that the WT:NFCC page was voted on in 2013 here Beer_parlour/2013/June to indicate that it is consensus-backed, and it does not say the word "draft" anywhere on the page. i also see that it has been used in the past to keep images like File:Far Side 1982-05-28 - Thagomizer.png, so i think it is a policy that we can trust for this process. --Habst (talk) 05:12, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

I am not familiar with this usage, but the definition states "based on a photograph of Josh DeSeno." So perhaps it does not need to actually be a photograph of Josh DeSeno, just close enough. My suggestion would be to find a copylefted photograph of someone who looks like Josh DeSeno, or draw an original picture of Josh DeSeno, and then use that. Nicole Sharp (talk) 14:58, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Kappa is a specific image used in Internet chat and an image that is merely "similar" would not be Kappa. It's a bit like the famous troll face, or that "biting pear" with teeth that was posted everywhere a decade ago. Equinox ◑ 15:16, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * yes thank you both, Equinox is correct, however the main difference between Kappa and the trollface or biting pear is that unlike the other two, Kappa is used inline with text similar to an emoji the vast majority of the time. --Habst (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

University "slangs"
Could someone please help me change Category:Cambridge University slang and Category:Oxford University slang so that they don't say slang (and they shouldn't be subcategories of "British slang" etc. either). They should just be categories for the two universities, as many of the words are not slang. Those that are slang should already have "slang" as a secondary gloss on the sense lines in the entries. Equinox ◑ 23:04, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
 * What do you need help with? As far as I can tell it's a simple matter of moving the category pages, changing the category links there, and then in Module:labels/data replacing "Cambridge University slang" and "Oxford University slang" in the  lists with whatever the new category names are. — Eru·tuon 20:40, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

 * That "simple matter" is not simple to me because I am stupid. Equinox ◑ 02:39, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not being more understanding. I can do some of the work if you don't want to. I just don't know what the category names should be or what the parent categories should be. — Eru·tuon 03:12, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Perhaps change the categories to “Category:Cambridge University English” (with the parent “Category:Cambridgeshire English” < “Category:Southern England English”) and “Category:Oxford University English” (with the parent “Category:Oxfordshire English” < “Category:Southern England English”). — SGconlaw (talk) 07:51, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

 * As someone who regularly writes braces in sense lines like I just find it really obnoxious that I spent hours of my time adding Cambridge and Oxford stuff and then some magical wizard fucked it all up by changing stuff I don't know how to change. YES I COULD LEARN how to change it, but honestly, I don't care. I just want it to be right. I Just want it to be correct. At the end of the day, if no Wikt nerd wants to fix this, it will just remain wrong, and I will move on to other things, and I will feel really bad and sad because I know that entries I spent a lot of time on are literally incorrect. But until some random journalist says "this is wrong" it will just survive, because guess what! every single other cunt is too busy creating fucking Lua templates, or changing all the pronouns to make them trans-friendly. I mean, fix it or not. Fuck off. Just see this as a helpful observation. I am a bad person but I have other things to do, like creating instead of editing. Equinox ◑ 09:14, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

 * The really annoying point here is that IT WAS RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE, and someone screwed it up by adding "slang". Put it back how it was! Equinox ◑ 09:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Not having come across any of these entries before, I don’t know what the previous position was, and unless someone remembers it’s probably going to be quite hard to figure out when the edit was made and what it used to be. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:31, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I "Cambridge University" and "Oxford University" and "Oxbridge" not magically transmute into "Cambridge University slang" and "Oxford University slang" and "Oxbridge slang" in  but didn't change the categories yet... like with Sgconlaw "change it back" doesn't really help me know what to do.  Also AdamBMorgan merged "slang" and "Oxford University" or "Cambridge University" in entries (for instance in, in ) and I don't know if you think that's a problem or not. — Eru·tuon 15:27, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I tried to make some changes too but realised I ran into 's edits, so I stopped and reversed it. Obviously, as the category creator, I think Category:Cambridge University slang and Category:Oxford University slang have merit and don't think they should either be changed or emptied.  Separate categories, or none, for non-slang terms might be better.  They both have a large body of specific slang terms that I think makes categorisation worthwhile.  Also, I did check everything when I made those categories and everything appeared to check out as slang at the time; I didn't just do this blindly. (NB: There was no previous categorisation of the University labels.) - AdamBMorgan (talk) 17:12, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

The question I'd ask is how many "slang" entries are there (and likely to be), as opposed to entries that relate to the universities but are not really slang. If the answer is that there aren't (and aren't going to be) that many entries anyway, then it may not be worth having a separate slang category – just put all the entries into the university category, and additionally label the slang entries with. Also, I wonder whether it is easy to distinguish between slang entries and entries that are, say, jargon.

However, if it is thought desirable to have a university slang category, then it should be a subcategory of the university category (see my 15 June 2019 comment above). — SGconlaw (talk) 15:20, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * So, in an attempt to fix the problem I created, I've done the following:
 * on Module:labels/data to remove the University labels (while leaving the specific slang labels)
 * on Module:labels/data/regional to add the University labels
 * Created Category:Cambridge University English (albeit as a child of East Anglian English at present)
 * Created Category:Oxford University English
 * It will take some time for those categories to populate; it seems to be working so far. I've listed all of that in case any or all of it needs to be removed or changed again.  I'm not sure if this is an ideal solution, or even a well implemented one, but this is a wiki so everything can be refined over time through future editing.  The jargon vs. slang problem still remains and could be resolved in different ways depending or how, when or if it arises in practice. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 05:42, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Has this problem been resolved now? The categories should have finished updating, with regional terms separated from the slang. (NB: Labels of the form of "X University" or "University of X" — where X is either "Oxford" or "Cambridge" — should both currently appear the same, all labels link to the universities' Wikipedia articles, and all categorise accordingly.  I have not created an "Oxbridge" label at this time, although "Oxbridge slang" does currently exist.) - AdamBMorgan (talk) 14:36, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Literally putting my hand over the screen while I scroll down because I don't want to see the always entertaining fallout of my last rant. Um I can see that there are now separate X uni and X uni slang categories so that looks great. Sorry for spazzing and all. Whether we should have a category for X uni just because it's famous and ancient I don't know. I just objected to the wholesale shoving of non-slang into slang. Thanks whoever spent time on this. Equinox ◑ 03:11, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Can someone enable m-p and f-p as genders for this template? Ultimateria (talk) 18:29, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. — Eru·tuon 20:16, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Why wiktionary don't link to wikipedia?
Now it too easy to waste resources by painting word, let search engine find it and clicking wikipedia link. :(
 * Wikipedia links are added by editors when they think such links are appropriate; you will either see a box at the top right corner of the entry, or (more commonly now) a link in the "Further reading" section at the end of the entry. However, it's not always appropriate for an entry to be linked to a Wikipedia article. If you have suggestions of Wikipedia articles that could be linked to Wiktionary entries, please suggest them at "Feedback" or "Tea room". — SGconlaw (talk) 15:20, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Category:American English forms, Category:British English forms
It would be nice if these two categories linked directly to each entry, instead of the top of the page. DonnanZ (talk) 11:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, please explain? — SGconlaw (talk) 12:01, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Try the link from Category:American English forms to center, for example. You end up at the top of the page, not at the actual English entry. DonnanZ (talk) 12:09, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that’s just how Mediawiki works. I don’t think it’s something that can we changed here. You might have to file a Phabricator ticket. — SGconlaw (talk) 13:22, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * No, there's a template called en that adds the link to the language section. All the templates used by autocat have it in there somewhere, so you don't normally have to add it by hand. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:28, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I just learned something new today. Perhaps these categories can be added to ? — SGconlaw (talk) 13:43, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * That fixed them, thanks a lot. DonnanZ (talk) 13:48, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Firefox not sizing columns evenly
There are 3 columns with  and 4 columns with , so both rows have the same number of columns. For me in Firefox, the three "foo" columns don't appear the same width, although the four "bar" ones do. Does this happen in other browsers, and is there a way to make the cells in each row evenly sized? —Rua (mew) 16:47, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Same in Safari. Canonicalization (talk) 16:50, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Chrome too. —Mahāgaja · talk 16:55, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

沒戲唱 & 没戏唱
Moved from WT:TR

Something strange is going on- I made a page for the simplified and traditional versions of this word, but the traditional page still says "(This form in the hanzi box is uncreated: "没戏唱".)". Must be something I don't understand going on. I would appreciate any help solving this problem. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:32, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "Save" the page without making a change. The system can be slow to update the page. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 01:37, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * : It's purely technical, no problem. A delay in processing the database or something. A zero-edit helps or just ignore the message, it will go away later. The correct place for this type of questions is WT:GP. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:38, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * woah, okay got it. far out --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * NEW PROBLEM I am now experiencing an identical type of problem with jû-hô and 如何, but the "save without making a change" method is not working. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:02, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Update- the problem is still happening. 'jû-hô' shows up as a red link on the '如何' page. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:32, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * : You have to be patient. 'jû-hô' is not showing as a red link for me but I experience delays today as well. Pages I have visited still show in bold. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I was originally uncertain whether this was a problem with an individual character or Chinese word or was a technical issue generally, so I posted to the tea room --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:45, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * : You have to be patient. 'jû-hô' is not showing as a red link for me but I experience delays today as well. Pages I have visited still show in bold. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Something happened between 2019-nî 6-goe̍h 19-ji̍t 01:26 & 2019-nî 6-goe̍h 19-ji̍t 01:29 as far as I can tell. 行規 had no problem producing a normal traditional/simplified pair, but then 沒戲唱 did. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:41, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

IPA template
I've said that years ago, but no change: The current pharyngealization mark used as the default in Wiktionary is the wrong one used for IPA, but looks similar. Whenever I edit pages using the template:IPA and add the correct mark (ˤ), I get a warning to use the wrong mark instead! --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:31, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * How do we know which pharyngealization mark is the right one? Probably both are right. Unicode misencoded here as in many places where the same is encoded twice. We don’t even know which apostrophes are correct, . Fay Freak (talk) 12:46, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You're right; Module:IPA only allows U+02C1 when it should be allowing only U+02E4. Editing the module to switch those around is the easy part, but then every page with U+02C1 on it will be added to CAT:IPA pronunciations with invalid IPA characters unless and until someone with a bot goes through and fixes them all. Is anyone reading this willing to set their bot onto that task if I fix the module? —Mahāgaja · talk 13:32, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * If it would help the bot operator, is a list of entries with the incorrect character in  or . — Eru·tuon 18:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this isn't too many, I'll get to this sometime soon. Benwing2 (talk) 00:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, I fixed the module (hopefully correctly) and I'm doing a bot run to correct the 806 pages that Erutuon found. Benwing2 (talk) 02:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you! is an updated list from the June 20th dump, which came out today. It has just a few . — Eru·tuon 02:14, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Benwing2 (talk) 02:25, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Help emptying out Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls
Me, User:Suzukaze-c and User:Erutuon cleared out most of what was in there. I'm a bit stumped about the rest, though. Any chance we could combine our efforts and clear it out completely? —Rua (mew) 10:39, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Only 7 pages left, all of which are user pages, perhaps not worth fixing. Benwing2 (talk) 02:32, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Telugu rhymes
Our rhyme pages use IPA, but for some reason Telugu rhymes are entered in the native script instead, as seen in Category:Telugu rhymes. This is tripping up our IPA module, which is called by and. As a result, Category:IPA pronunciations with invalid IPA characters is completely flooded with Telugu pages. Is there a way that we can fix this? —Rua (mew) 10:42, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

 * (User talk:Stephen G. Brown/2016, Category talk:Telugu rhymes —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 10:45, 20 June 2019 (UTC))
 * I've wondered about this too, but the idea of converting them all to IPA is daunting to me, especially since I don't know Telugu. Doing a one-to-one conversion (e.g. moving Rhymes:Telugu/క to Rhymes:Telugu/ka) would also result in Rhymes pages that include the syllable onset, and I don't know whether that's accurate for Telugu poetry (it certainly isn't for the European languages whose rhyme conventions I'm familiar with). —Mahāgaja · talk 14:05, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I guess and  could specially treat Telugu rhymes, language-tagging them instead of passing them to Module:IPA. — Eru·tuon 19:54, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Done, I think? It was very easy so maybe I missed something. — Eru·tuon 20:00, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I do hope that this is just a stopgap and that our intention is to change these to IPA in the future. —Rua (mew) 20:09, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, my edits make it very easy to go back to IPA-tagging the Telugu rhymes. — Eru·tuon 20:18, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Problem: template top3 splits element so it occupies 2 columns (in FF and IE)
(who touched or replied in Grease_pit/2017/April, Grease_pit/2017/May )

From stackoverflow.com i see 2 solutions:
 * css -- it seems to work (though there are no "tr" and "td"), for some reason 'table' behavior differs from 'block'
 * css

Since both solutions remove list item, they require additional support:
 * css
 * css or css

I don't know what solution is better, i could not make enough tests (e.g. ) in different browsers. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 19:21, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Proposal to simplify
The implementation of is pretty crazy. It allows its parameters to be passed in any order, and does some extremely complex processing (including what looks like a dynamic-programming edit-distance computation) to figure out which parameter is which. This makes it very hard to work with it in any sensible fashion in a bot script. I ran into this when trying to figure out whether it's allowable to convert a raw inflection-of definition that involves into a call to. I think, for example, that the following can be converted:

because they have only a single Hangul lemma and a gloss; but if both Hangul and Hanja are present, I don't think the conversion of possible. What I'd like to do is do a bot run to reorder the params into a fixed order, and then remove the complex code that guesses which param is which, so that the fixed order is enforced. I would naturally have the bot call the existing param-guessing code to correctly fetch the params. The format I'm thinking should be imposed would be this:

where

is also allowed, but the former will be used by the bot. This is mostly compatible with the existing and  templates, where the HANJA param takes the place of the ALTTEXT (display text) param. Thoughts? Benwing2 (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I guess the current implementation is complicated for backward compatibility. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 21:54, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * : The problems with some inconsistencies are historical but I agree some clean-up must be needed. The hanja parameter is not an alttext, since hanja is also displayed along with hangeul. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:35, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Right, I'm not saying the Hanja parameter is an alttext but rather that I'm putting it in the same place as the alt text. Benwing2 (talk) 00:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * : OK, thanks. Please keep us in the loop about any changes. BTW, in the past there were strong objections about creating Japanese and Korean entries for inflected forms - apparently they are almost endless because of the nature of these languages. Just looking at your examples in your first post. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:13, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I would not create any new entries for Japanese/Korean inflected forms, but several of them already exist and I want to clean them up. Benwing2 (talk) 00:23, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * ko-l should be simplified, but I think that HANGUL would be nicer than HANGUL. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 00:39, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I would eventually also like to do a similar cleanup of . It's not quite so bad but it too guesses whether its second parameter is a simplified Chinese equivalent, a translit or a gloss. Benwing2 (talk) 00:40, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't much care about the exact order of arguments as long as it's fixed. If you prefer to put GLOSS directly after HANGUL (note, this is contrary to the normal calling spec of, , etc.), where would you put HANJA? Benwing2 (talk) 00:42, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that having HANJA share the same parameter as GLOSS wouldn't be too egregious or complex. Hanja isn't always necessary or applicable, and the empty parameter is meh. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 00:44, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "Gloss" doesn't require to be linked but "hanja" does. It's also formatted. I'm not sure I would agree to "gloss" being the 2nd unnamed parameter, "hanja" was always the second. I think both "gloss" and "tr" should be named. Or leave "gloss" at the 3rd position as in . To complicate things, we only allow one type of Korean transliteration, so "rv" (for "revised") = "tr" as in Korean headword templates. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:49, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd also prefer to put HANJA second, and not overload a single parameter with two meanings. Using t= for gloss is standard in many templates and easy to type. Benwing2 (talk) 02:07, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * t= is fine. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:53, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that simple script detection could resolve whether is HANJA or GLOSS, but  is also good. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 07:00, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * While on the topic, I think that HANJA could be useful as well, for the Compounds section of Hanja (人). —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 07:00, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It's minor but I think we should use "hangeul", rather than "hangul", since RR (Revised Romanization) transliteration is the current solid transliteration policy for Korean, even if "hangul" is the original English spelling from MR (McCune–Reischauer) "han'gŭl". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Greetings. I've recently compiled a set of Middle Korean lemmas over here and here. Would it be possible to make redirect to   rather than just  ? KevinUp (talk) 14:55, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * On another note, gives the output, so I hope this format can be retained. KevinUp (talk) 14:55, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Problem with Display of Text Following Templates
I've noticed that whenever there is text following an template (e.g., ) on the same line, such as to give a page or line number, there is a line break that shouldn't be there. An example I just ran across is at, the past tense of cleave, which display the following:
 * , Genesis, 22:3
 * And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
 * , Ruth 1:14
 * And they lifted up their voice, and wept again: and Orpah kissed her mother in law; but Ruth clave unto her.

Can this be fixed easily? Andrew Sheedy (talk) 01:32, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Page or line numbers vel sim. should be available as parameters in the templates themselves (as appropriate). In this case the needed parameters are already available, so there's a straightforward fix:
 * — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 16:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Good to know, thanks. I've been seeing it so often I just assumed whoever used the templates didn't have a choice. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 22:57, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * By the way,, the template is now called , so feel free to update the template name wherever you encounter it. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:02, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, good to know. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 03:32, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, good to know. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 03:32, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Can someone make the forms link to Occitan L2? Also, accelerated forms would be fantastic, but my first request is more of an issue. Ultimateria (talk) 22:44, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Updated. DTLHS (talk) 16:54, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! Ultimateria (talk) 17:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Can someone please 1) make comparative and superlative forms optional, for example by adding the possibility of inserting "-" in the first parameter 2) add the possibility of adding an optional intensive form. Ketiga123 (talk) 01:30, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * To see an example of how an adjective with an intensive form should look, see Ketiga123 (talk) 12:26, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Problem: template top3 doesn't break 2 elements
(who was pinged Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2019/June#Problem: template top3 splits ...)

is using CSS column. When size of element1 >= element2 + element3, #2 and #3 will be placed in same column (e.g. ). Such behavior is normal for columns but it's not satisfactory when elements can't be breaked. I don't know is there something like  for columns or how to make an element that would fill remaining height of column.

Previous version of the template was using table and it can break anywhere. Therefore probably it should be revived as alternative template. If table is undesirable for mobile version, it can redefined in CSS, e.g. css. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 18:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Weird behaviour
I used proprius and proprius in Requests for verification/Non-English, expecting to see both times something like “proprius in ...”. Instead, I see “for verification/Non-English proprius in ...”. This looks like an error to me. Apart from that, I think that the default for the second parameter should be what is displayed; i.e.,  should be equivalent to. --Lambiam 12:53, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree, but some instances of these templates might rely on the old behavior, so I'll check to see which template instances would change with the new behavior. — Eru·tuon 15:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, there are 658 instances of that have parameter 1 or entry and it is not equal to the page name and parameter 2 is not supplied, and 1782 instances of templates that use Module:R:Perseus (including  and ) in which parameter 1 is not equal to the page name and parameter 2 is not supplied, 904 non-Greek instances (because the Greek templates have more complex rules). I'm not sure if all of these will need to be changed. It's possible that editors supplied 1 or entry with the expectation that it would be used in the URL as well as the link text. — Eru·tuon 18:20, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2019/June


text:
Wiktionary:Grease pit/2019/July

In other languages malfunctions?
隨便 shows only five other languages (Français, 한국어, Magyar, Malagasy, 日本語) to me. Chinese is notably missing. Over there, zh:隨便 shows two extra, ᏣᎳᎩ and Українська. Is this limited by some settings, or is the sidebar malfunctioning?--Roy17 (talk) 11:12, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * 隨便 is the traditional form. 随便 is its simplified form (it looks somewhat similar but the first character is different), which has all the interwiki links you're missing. The traditional form of (the first part) is not linked directly to the the Chinese Wiktionary but it has a redirect. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 14:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Now I realise it's not a redirect by the command # redirect ... though. It's some special automatic simp-trad conversion they have in place. Even though the trad form is not created yet, it would show the simp form. When I was not redirected the usual way I failed to notice I was looking at the simp form. Case closed.--Roy17 (talk) 14:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * And your filters prevent me from explaining.--Roy17 (talk) 14:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Not sure what filters you mean. It's some kind of web redirect in the Chinese Wiktionary, not a page redirect. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 14:20, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

snaughle
I created the neologism, and it's categorising under 'English 1-syllable words'. Not sure why. Leasnam (talk) 05:00, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I added schwas in and the problem disappeared. So it looks like vocalic nuclei are the determiners for syllable categorization. I didn't try just adding a syllable boundary to see if that would work as well, or a syllabic diacritic to the /l/'s, but you could try that as well, if you prefer. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 06:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Module:syllables counts the syllables. The reason it wasn't counting the as a second syllable was that it didn't have a diacritic indicating that it was syllabic. The module doesn't look at syllable dividers so that has no effect. — Eru·tuon 19:40, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks Andrew Sheedy and Erutuon ! Leasnam (talk) 20:10, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * if you wish to indicate that the schwa is optional, you could indicate, which would also cause the module to count the word has having two syllables. Aslo, as far as I am aware, if a full stop is used as a syllable marker, this is noted by the module. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:27, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * What I meant by "syllable dividers" above was full stops or periods. Module:syllables doesn't pay attention to them when counting the number of syllables. — Eru·tuon 21:38, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * that's odd. As far as I'm aware, is treated as one syllable, while  is treated as two, suggesting that the full stop is effective as a syllable marker. — SGconlaw (talk) 03:29, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's right. That's because is treated as a diphthong (a New Zealand diphthong). But any character will serve to break it up; the syllable break isn't special here, but just happens to be the correct character to use. — Eru·tuon 14:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * My wording probably suggested that the module removes syllable breaks when calculating the number of syllables; it does not. But they are treated like any other character. — Eru·tuon 14:45, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see! — SGconlaw (talk) 15:44, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Doesn't l̥ (l dotted below) also create an additional syllable ? e.g. ? Leasnam (talk) 02:34, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The ring is the syllabicity diacritic in Proto-Indo-European, but in the IPA, the correct character is a vertical line below: . — Eru·tuon 14:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Language links to entries on other Wiktionaries
When I look up, I see a link to https://af.wiktionary.org/wiki/aalwyn under “In other languages”. But when I look up, I only see a message “Wiktionary does not yet have an entry for aandag.” There are no language links, even though the entry https://af.wiktionary.org/wiki/aandag exists. Would it be possible to also make links to existing pages on other-language wiktionaries visible for pages that are missing hedre? --Lambiam 11:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * This has to do with the Cognate extension. I don't know exactly how the extension works in relation to uncreated pages, but as soon as I preview an uncreated page, the interwiki links show up. Maybe the developers could add the feature of showing interwikis on uncreated pages if someone requested it on Phabricator. — Eru·tuon 16:27, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. For now using preview is good enough for me. --Lambiam 20:31, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

url link for cite-web
The  parameter of cite-web is used to attach an external link to the rendering of the   parameter, also when a   is present. But in most cases, the link goes to one of many pages is the work identified, one that has that title, so in such cases it would be better to attach the link to the title.

Example:
 * code:
 * rendering:
 * rendering:

I have not looked at the situation for other templates with a  parameter. --Lambiam 20:58, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * if, in a particular case, you feel that the URL is better linked to the title, use titleurl instead of url. This is explained in the documentation. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:22, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Unicode Private Use Area Characters for "Jurchen Script"
An IP has been adding "Jurchen script" to a number of Jurchen entries that seems to be in one of the Unicode Private Use Areas. Is there any reason not to revert the lot? How do we know what characters site visitors will see, since AFAIK the glyphs displayed are entirely dependent on which version of which font is installed on a given system? Or is there some way to force use of a font that has the correct glyphs in the correct range? Chuck Entz (talk) 05:51, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

 * As I told in Category talk:Jurchen script, and PUA's appearance is different among users, so it should not be included at the moment. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

template:m should have a non-gloss parameter
Can someone who knows modules please edit template:m so that it has a parameter for a non-gloss definition? For example,  should display not “forming words relating to hoarding and storing” as it does now but forming words relating to hoarding and storing or even the same unitalicized. —msh210℠ (talk) 14:36, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Even though it's not optimal, you can use the pos parameter for that. I remember briefly discussing this with and  on the talk page of a recent Word of the Day, but I can't remember which. Canonicalization (talk) 14:47, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have been using non-gloss definition where required. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:08, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I use it without italics: non-gloss definition. — Eru·tuon 16:10, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I've been adding italics to match the formatting of . — SGconlaw (talk) 18:19, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * But that template doesn't include '' in its output: →  . —Rua (mew) 21:31, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I’m not following. Clarify? — SGconlaw (talk) 02:10, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think she's pointing out that what you are inserting into the pos parameter (italicized text) is actually different from the HTML that generates, even though it usually looks the same. — Eru·tuon 21:35, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks. In that case, should we add a non-gloss parameter to (and related templates) with the correct markup? — SGconlaw (talk) 06:28, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. —msh210℠ (talk) 21:32, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect ablaut at
On the page, the ablaut is given by the inflection table as ~. But this is incorrect; the nasal infix is never syllabic, and it's the l that should be vocalised instead. The parameters are correctly given in the wikicode, so something is messing it up on the way out. —Rua (mew) 21:48, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Technical Assistance Request: Mandarin Chinese Romanization
Thank you for your time. About week or two ago, I think we got very very close to including the Tongyong Pinyin Mandarin Chinese romanization system in the list of Mandarin Chinese romanizations that appear in Template:zh-pron. Here is the progress we made:. When I unsuccessfully tried to incorporate this romanization system into zh-pron, it caused a failure of the module: "Lua error in Module:cmn-pron at line 1150: wrong number of arguments to 'insert'". Yes, I do need to learn to code, but I haven't done so- I'm incapable of making any more progress in this area because I don't know how Lua works or why this error appeared. My request for including Tongyong Pinyin has been logged at About_Chinese/tasks, but because the Tongyong Pinyin romanization system is intensely frowned upon by the Hanyu Pinyin-only fanatics among Mandarin Chinese users, it is difficult to convince others of the necessity of adding this romanization system to Wiktionary and my request will fall on deaf ears until such time as a rationale can be found to delete my request. To me, this is not a question of whether or not Tongyong Pinyin is helpful, harmful, good, bad, important, dangerous, economical, time-wasting etc etc. I'm merely trying to provide the readers of the dictionary with information they may need if they visit somewhere like Kaohsiung or Tamsui, where the Tongyong Pinyin system is seen on street signs and websites. Despite the relentless pestering, nagging and naysaying of the anti-Tongyong Pinyin people, the Tongyong Pinyin system is in current use in the Republic of China (Taiwan) (albeit on a limited scale and not by the central government). Tongyong Pinyin can be found in Mandarin Chinese language teaching materials currently in use. The small amount of usage that Tongyong Pinyin sees in modern Taiwan is way more than the Gwoyeu Romatzyh ever saw (as far as I'm aware), but Wiktionary includes Gwoyeu Romatzyh in zh-pron. That's a good thing. It makes this website more useful and more fun. As far as I am aware, the influential Chinese-langauge editors on Wiktionary may never be interested in helping me add Tongyong Pinyin to Wiktionary, so I may need assistance from someone who does not normally do editing of Chinese language topics. I have made similar requests about multi-syllable Wade-Giles in the past that have never come to fruition because Hanyu Pinyin is considered to the be the de-facto Chinese- who needs to see Wade-Giles anymore? (Answer: people who read books, the type of person that would use Wiktionary.) Of course, everyone knows about Hanyu Pinyin. I use it all the time. I know the official Mainland China rules of Hanyu Pinyin better than most do. But the Hanyu Pinyin-only mindset is too limiting to express the historical relationship between Mandarin Chinese and English. The more minor romanization systems are out there being used. They are used in people's names. A good editor who I admire wrote: "We don't need to contextualize Hanyu Pinyin, because it is the standard that people have come to expect. It is the de-facto "Chinese", and has clear prestige over other forms of Chinese." I can't agree with this view, and neither do the all the people in Taiwan. For instance, the default translation of Mandarin Chinese personal names into English in Taiwan is Wade-Giles (at least at the place I went to translate documents). It is true that Hanyu Pinyin is overwhelmingly important, OF COURSE! Hanyu Pinyin is much more important than Tongyong Pinyin ever was or ever could be. 當然! But that doesn't mean Tongyong Pinyin should be ignored or intentionally maligned. We need to be respectful of the people who are using this system and respectful of the history of Taiwan. Anti-Tongyong Pinyin bias is found throughout Wikipedia too: see my edits to where I have been trying to "de-propaganda". This request has nothing to do with the fact that Hanyu Pinyin is the official romanization for Mandarin Chinese at the United Nations, the People's Republic of China and the central government of the Republic of China (Taiwan). None of that matters. What matters is that people are using this system in real life, and Wiktionary has the capability to incorporate information about this romanization system just like it does for the Gwoyeu Romatzyh and Wade-Giles romanization systems. Tongyong Pinyin was the official transliteration system of the central government of Taiwan for about six years in the 2000's. I believe I have made a conclusive case that Tongyong Pinyin must be included on this website at some point, and I would appreciate your technical assistance in making this possible. All I'm asking for is inclusiveness, fairness and informativeness. In this wretched age of the wide-scale destruction and intentional suppression of the minor languages and cultures of our world, let Wiktionary reflect the existence of the minority. Tonyong Pinyin is reflected in the names of English langauge Wikipedia articles like, and redirects like  etc. Get the boot of Hanyu Pinyin-only off our necks. Hanyu Pinyin is definitely a great thing, but Tongyong Pinyin exists too. Thanks for reading my magnum opus. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:17, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "[T]he influential Chinese-langauge editors on Wiktionary may never be interested in helping me add Tongyong Pinyin to Wiktionary": that's a bit unfair because . It's now a simpler matter to add it to . — Eru·tuon 01:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Added Tongyong Pinyin to the hidden part of the table using . — Eru·tuon 01:42, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I deeply believe that there's nothing our world needs more right now than a good dictionary, and that is why I am fighting for it. The fact that the Wiktionary page for Cijin can exist as it does at this time proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that little Wiktionary is primed to become the best dictionary in human history. We are being respectful and mindful of the choices of the people of that area concerning proper romanization of their district's name, more so than the USA government National Geospatial Agency's GEOnet Names Server, more so than Google Maps, and more than the non-English Wikipedias. We must understand that Hanyu Pinyin is of course vitally important, but at the same time we must realize that to ignore Tongyong Pinyin can only be called evil. I apologize for cracking skulls and being generally unruly, but the time has come for humanity to finally have a real dictionary. I, for my part, have had enough with the half-truths and lies that have smothered the promise of humanity in the cradle. You are all great people, and I'm proud to be among you (at least until I get kicked out of here!) and I'm sorry for anything I have said that offends: I'm just speaking the truth as I see it in the moment, and I will change my opinion according to the facts as I understand them. Please understand that I will make mistakes that are based on my biases and foolishness, and I hope you will not hold your punches- we must have a good dictionary in our time.  --Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, ., I can understand your passion to have everything represented, but I hope you could learn to be a little more patient. I was a little busy last week and it was my fault for kind of forgetting about it. There were still some edge cases to work out, like how we should deal with hyphens and apostrophes; that's why I haven't put it into the table for display yet. The sources I've looked at have been contradicting with regards to these issues, so if you have any input, that'd be great. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * {edit conflict) I can think of lots of things our world needs more than any dictionary. It seems like you're getting too caught up in the drama of it all. You're also mistaking quantity for quality. Just as no one is going to take the time to read the walls of text you just added, no one wants to wade through tons of trivia to find the basic stuff they're looking for. It's okay to have extra details, but things need to be organized so they don't get in the way of the more important ones. It does no good to be the most extensive and thorough reference in history if no one can use it. Chuck Entz (talk) 19:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Category:Catalan nouns with missing plurals
Why aren't categories like these clearing out entries that do have plurals? Just going through the first entries I've noticed that some have had plurals for several months. Ultimateria (talk) 16:31, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The server has to regenerate the lemma entries in order to remove them from the category, and it doesn't do that immediately after the plural entry has been created. I guess regeneration of pages has been slow because of edits to much-transcluded pages, such as the language data modules and Latin inflection modules such as Module:la-verb. I ran touch.py to perform a null edit on most of the entries in the category, and it started with 642 members, but is now at 481. — Eru·tuon 17:53, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * It means you're editing too quickly. Slow down and take a holiday. They should have caught up by the time you're back. --Gibraltar Rocks (talk) 11:22, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

ͷοῖκυ
There seems to be something odd with Category:Ancient Greek terms spelled with Ͷ (see wanted categories) and Category:Ancient Greek terms spelled with ͷ oscillating back and forth. DTLHS (talk) 17:01, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Similarly, for the past few weeks Egyptian entries staring with ꜣ and ꜥ have been oscillating between being categorized under capitalized and uncapitalized versions of those letters. I imagine the same problem is behind both phenomena. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 21:01, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The relevant code from Module:headword is here:
 * For those who can't read Lua code, if a character in the subpage text is not a standard character (that is, not found in the language's  pattern, which for Ancient Greek is  ), the entry is put in a category containing the uppercase version of the character if the uppercase is also not a standard character, otherwise the lowercase version.
 * I can't see any cause for the oscillation if the PHP library that ultimately handles uppercasing is functioning correctly; neither the  field nor the code adding these categories nor the casemappings for these characters have changed. And I suppose something must also be happening on the PHP side to cause Egyptian entries to alternately sort under the uppercase and lowercase versions of a letter. I thought category headers were always uppercase. — Eru·tuon 22:39, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I've encountered this error again, with Category:Latin terms spelled with ꝑ. The category name should be Category:Latin terms spelled with Ꝑ, but is not because  is not returning  ). — Eru·tuon 15:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I've posted about this in Phabricator. — Eru·tuon 15:51, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

 * The Phabricator response indicates that the upgrade to PHP 7 is responsible- at the moment requests may be served with different PHP versions which have different Unicode behavior. Presumably it will eventually be stable. DTLHS (talk) 18:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping! It’s good to know what’s going on. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 00:35, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It turns out that till now English Wiktionary has been unwittingly using Unicode 3.2, from 2002 before the characters in question were added to Unicode. I guess nobody's noticed before now because the more common cased characters were added in early versions of Unicode. For instance, most Greek letters (though not ͷ) were added in Unicode 1.1. The newer characters don't come up in our modules and category headers very often. — Eru·tuon 19:57, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It looks like the letters are finally being uppercased consistently and the PHP 7 tag has been removed, resulting in module errors in the categories with lowercase letters, so I marked them for deletion. (This testcase is outputting nothing; it will print the letters if they aren't being uppercased.) Hopefully I'm not jumping the gun. — Eru·tuon 00:02, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It is not stable yet- Category:German terms spelled with ꝛ. DTLHS (talk) 16:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Help!
O please! (from el.wiktionary, where all Lua editors are gone), can somebody help? How can i make this
 * that is
 * that is

to be linked like this:

I have tried  but of course it does not work... Is there a place for Lua-support? Perhaps request help at https://meta.wikimedia.org/ ? But i did not find a lua-support-desk there sarri.greek (talk) 09:32, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think English Wikipedia has quite a few active Lua editors, so Wikipedia:Lua is a good place to post. However, in this case,  does what you want, if I'm understanding correctly. — Eru·tuon 16:28, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If you are doing a lot of linking, it might be more readable to define a function  and do  . — Eru·tuon 16:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Dear, thanks -it does not work, I cannot link things which start with args. But never mind. I' ll try your second advice-. You always help me!. Your previous help with the module for affixes is a great success! THANKS. sarri.greek (talk) 16:36, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * What is the error message? I can't tell where you are using this code. — Eru·tuon 16:38, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, I found el:Module:el-nouns-decl. — Eru·tuon 16:48, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , I love you! OK: I will study now, what you have done, and try to apply. sarri.greek (talk) 16:59, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Bot Needed in CAT:E
A brand-new account tampered with character info/new, which means that there are currently thousands of single-character entries cluttering up the category. I would appreciate it if someone with a bot could do null edits on all the single-character entries in CAT:E so that we can see the real module errors. They've been clearing up a few hundred at a time here and there, but it would be nice to give it a bit of a push. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 02:06, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll run touch.py on the category (doesn't require a bot account). — Eru·tuon 02:14, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 03:16, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistent sublanguage categories
As an example, after using the special codes for Greek dialects in etymology sections, like because 🇨🇬 is from Doric Greek, one creates the categories “LANGUAGENAME terms derived from Doric Greek”, “Terms derived from Doric Greek”, and then, so the category is not orphaned, creates Category:Doric Greek with  or the like, and so with the other dialects, to categorize into Category:Regional Ancient Greek, on the model of anything in Category:Regionalisms, like Category:Egyptian Arabic ends up in Category:Regional Arabic, Category:Istanbul Armenian ends up in Category:Regional Armenian, for example. Now I just have noticed the opposition to Category:Ancient Greek dialects which contains categories for all Ancient Greek dialects already that contain Ancient Greek lemmas containing regionalisms, as well as Greek of specific times (Byzantine Greek, Koine Greek etc.), these categories being sorted in Category:Ancient Greek language. I think I do not err if I aver that the current state of the categories is too byzantine and it would make sense not to have this duplication but Category:Doric Greek and Category:Doric Ancient Greek should be united, and probably under Category:Regionalisms for the dialects, while the chronolects should get their own categories: so we don’t have “Classical Latin”, “Medieval Latin”, “New Latin”, “Post-classical Latin”, ”Renaissance Latin” right in Category:Latin language. And I see potential for a “sociolects” category as we have Category:Vulgar Latin and the like. That’s the observation I wanted to share. What you do with this insight or how the category names should be cleaned up is up to you. I ping particularly as he holds stakes in the Greek dialects system. Fay Freak (talk) 13:56, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, the categories should be "x Greek" instead of "x Ancient Greek", which is clunky and unnatural. In most cases the clunky categories are added by labels in Module:labels/data/subvarieties, so moving all the entries is easy.
 * Not all of them are lemmas, unfortunately. For instance, in Category:Epic Ancient Greek (which should be Category:Epic Greek) is a lemma, while  is an inflected form. The dialectal categories would be more useful if they were divided into lemmas and non-lemma forms, but that's not a simple task.
 * "Regionalism" is an inaccurate label for the some of the Ancient Greek dialects; for instance, Epic Greek was a literary mishmash of several dialects used by people in various regions and Koine Greek was pan-regional. It's most accurate for lects that weren't used in literature written outside of their native land, like Boeotian. But all of the dialectal categories could maybe still be temporarily placed in Category:Regional Ancient Greek if there isn't another name for a category for non-regional lects yet. — Eru·tuon 18:37, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the core problem is that we're stuck on geographic variation, when any distance, whether temporal, spatial or social, causes variation. We need to categorize based on variation itself, with geographical varieties as one subtype, along with historical and social varieties. Maybe the parent category should be "XX Language varieties". As for subdividing, it get's complicated: RP and AAVE are both regional and social in nature, and there are definite social perceptions attached to many regional varieties. Historical varieties are often linked to social changes, and to geographical factors. The Wessex dialect tended to dominate Old English, but Modern English is more Midlands-based, as one example. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Merging two accounts
Can a user merge two accounts, and combine the edits, and keep only one of the logins? Or, if not, how would they delete/destroy one account, and leave only their second account for logging in? Please see User_talk:Scottmacstravic who IMO might be a bit confused about his account status but really just needs and wants one. Equinox ◑ 17:04, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Not entirely sure of the answers to your questions, but see "Changing username" and "Steward requests/Username changes". Locally, I think a Wiktionary administrator could just block the account that Scott no longer wishes to use, but a request will have to be made at Meta if the blocking is to apply across all Wikimedia projects. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Logogram
Can we allow ===Logogram=== as a valid heading in WT:ELE? --Gibraltar Rocks (talk) 11:20, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * What were you thinking of using it for? For some (e.g. at ) they already exist in the synonyms section, which seems fine to me. -  TheDaveRoss  12:30, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Tracking templates
Hi GPers. When using this page to make this page, I get the error message "Lua error in Module:quote at line 170: Only one of date= or year= should be specified". As is well-documented, I don't do templates, categories, or modules anymore as they got overcomplicated. I reckon this error message comes up because of Template:quote-journal, perhaps that template assumes that an entry must have a year, what do I know? As I didn't know how to fix it, I asked someone else to do so and have carried on making entries even though they have module errors. --Gibraltar Rocks (talk) 19:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * just wants the parameter date, without year. date lets you put in the year, month, and day of the month, year takes the year. If both parameters are provided, emits an error message because it doesn't need both. I think no further action is needed because User:DTLHS has removed the year parameter from the preload template that you used in, so using the template doesn't trigger the error message anymore. — Eru·tuon 19:53, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, good. I love DTLHS --Gibraltar Rocks (talk) 23:05, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Template:ms-pron
I am looking for someone who can help me to construct/make Template:ms-pron for Malay pronunciation. I planned make similar to Template:zh-pron style. But, it more simple and slightly different. NB: i don't know everything about programming. Rex Aurorum (talk) 11:20, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2019/July


text:
Wiktionary:Grease pit/2019/August

New language appendix
I just created Appendix:Choctaw pronunciation, but the IPA(key) link on Choctaw entries (like hattak) doesn't link to it. I see in the IPA module it's supposed to check. How can this be updated? Kmack (talk) 22:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It needs to be added to Module:IPA/data. DTLHS (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Heck yeah! You rock! Kmack (talk) 22:32, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Bot Request- Fix 2-Line Dates in Quote Templates
Over the past few weeks I've been seeing intermittent module errors rejecting date parameters in quote templates as invalid time stamps. These are all in a format consisting of a month and numeric day followed by a 4-digit year on the next line:

instead of

These are all apparently the result of a poorly-executed bot run that fixed another problem years ago. I'm not sure how many are left, nor why they've been turning up a handful at a time instead of all at once. It seems, though, like finding and fixing them would be very easy for a bot. Would anyone be willing to take care of this? Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 04:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * All of them: fair crack of the whip, festy, blogish, Vectisian, tighty whities, tidy whities, spk, predrinks, bizarrer, finickity, kangaroo piss, m8, bullocks, veggo, cariad DTLHS (talk) 04:45, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I think I got all of them. It's nice to know that the tip of the iceberg I was stressing about was just a few ice cubes... Chuck Entz (talk) 05:13, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Creating an entry de:verschönern
Why are my attempts to create verschönern flagged as harmful? I copied my lay-out into the sandbox; what´s wrong with it?--Akletos (talk) 11:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Specifying the target RFD thread in "RFD" template
Presently there is a thread at Requests_for_deletion/English titled "Tardis-like and spelling variations". Is there any way to link correctly to this from the RFD banner at Tardis-like? By default, it only links to a thread titled "Tardis-like", which does not exist. Mihia (talk) 17:22, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a fragment parameter, so you can do . I will note this in the documentation for . — Eru·tuon 17:28, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Aha! Great, that works just fine. Thanks for your quick response. Mihia (talk) 17:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Can someone please add the option for "mf" for 1 like the one in for epicene adjectives? Ultimateria (talk) 18:48, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It looks like already responds to that option by displaying "m or f". But it isn't as intelligent as ; for instance, it doesn't display "masculine and feminine plural cadas", and if I remove cada in, it displays feminine singular *cadaa and feminine plural *cadaas.  is handled by Module:ca-headword, which could be used as a starting point for a Module:oc-headword. It would be too much trouble to try to make  smarter without a module.. — Eru·tuon 22:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

By the way, does "epicene adjectives" make sense? I have only found Category:Catalan epicene adjectives named that way. An is a masculine or feminine noun used for both males and females. Adjectives are variable or invariable in gender, it is just inflection not an implicit gender. --Vriullop (talk) 06:56, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make sense. This is just syncretism between the masculine and feminine forms. —Rua (mew) 17:06, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Manual transliterations inside the Derived terms and Related terms templates
, if we do, we lose the macrons over the u's in the transliteration. Is there any way to manually specify transliterations inside der3 and rel3 and their friends? —Mahāgaja · talk 20:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * In this particular case, we could decide to put macrons over the Gothic letters too. But I have no solution for the general case. I just find putting a whole linking template in place of a term very ugly, and Victor argued on the BP that nesting templates inside templates is often a bad idea. —Rua (mew) 21:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible to implement something along the lines of mikildūþs, mikilþūhts and so on? That doesn't work at the moment, but would it be possible and/or desirable? It would be good for languages like Persian without automatic transliteration too. —Mahāgaja · talk 10:07, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That seems annoying since sometimes these tables can have hundreds of entries- there's no easy way to tell what the indexes are. DTLHS (talk) 18:51, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * In this case you should not remove the manual transliterations, because they supply more info. Benwing2 (talk) 22:23, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Then I propose putting macrons on the Gothic, so that we don't have to mess with transliterations. —Rua (mew) 10:27, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Module errors on proto-language category pages
and anyone else in the know: it appears that all category pages for proto-languages (e.g. CAT:Proto-Indo-European language, CAT:Proto-Celtic language) are currently throwing a module error: "Lua error in Module:family_tree/nested_data at line 23: language code table not recognized". Someone please fix this! Thanks. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * My mistake – it's not just the proto-language categories, it's all the language categories. —Mahāgaja · talk 19:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Seems to be fixed now. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:41, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The error was triggered because the  value in  by Victar in Module:etymology languages/data was a table. That's been fixed, but I've made it so that Module:category tree/langcatboiler will simply not display a family tree if there's an error, and made Module:data consistency check check that   values are strings. — Eru·tuon 22:42, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I accidentally had an array in the parent parameter for Old Azari. Module:data consistency check broke instead of displaying an error, so it took some trial and error to find the problem. -- 22:46, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That was very bad, but has been fixed. This indicates that Module:data consistency check needs looking at to see if it's smart enough not to crash in response to other similar errors. — Eru·tuon 23:01, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding and fixing it. It does seem like the module's response was out of all proportion to the triviality of the mistake. —Mahāgaja · talk 10:28, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Turkish pluralia tantum and Module:tr-nouns
Turkish plurals end in -lar or -ler, and so do, consequently, the lemma forms of Turkish pluralia tantum. The declension module for Turkish nouns, Module:tr-nouns, adds another -lar or -ler to the lemma in the plural column, also for pluralia tantum. The result is that the declension of goes like abanozgillerler, abanozgillerleri, ..., instead of abanozgiller, abanozgilleri, .... I thought I could fix this by defining a local plsuffix which is normally set to -lar/-ler depending on the vowel harmony, but is set to void for a plurale tantum. However, that did not work; I got a Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'match' (string expected, got nil) at page abanozgiller. For now I have reverted my changes. The only matches I see in the code are with a variable  that I did not touch. Can someone figure out what I did wrong? This is my first foray into tinkering with a module. --Lambiam 21:55, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Your code almost worked; that particular error was caused ultimately by  where   was a string   (a table was expected:  ). The code below  was indexing the string (equivalent to the code  ), ang getting   rather than a string as it expected. And   would have triggered an error in non-plurale-tantum entries; a string was expected  so that it could be concatenated with the endings. Anyway, I got it to work with minimal changes to your code. — Eru·tuon 22:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect error deleting templates
Every time I try to delete a template, I get an error about unclosed or similar tags. This has been going on for several weeks now. I recently hit it trying to delete, which was a redirect with no doc page, and definitely didn't have an unclosed tag. This means some abuse filter is wrongly triggering. Benwing2 (talk) 22:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

sco-smi (Middle Scots)
How can I go about getting the language code sco-smi working ? It appears to be an etymology-only language code that works when referenced from Modern Scots (e.g., but not from a Middle Scots entry  . Do we not count Middle Scots as a language ? Leasnam (talk) 21:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I think we have discussed this before somewhere. DTLHS (talk) 21:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * At the moment, the "destination language" parameter in etymology templates (the first parameter in ) only accepts the language codes that can have their own headers – regular languages as opposed to etymology languages. Middle Scots, as an etymology language, can't be used there. There wouldn't be much of a point in using etymology language codes there, given the way things are currently set up. At the moment there aren't categories for " x terms derived from y ", and similar, where x is an etymology language (for instance, "Middle Scots terms derived from Old Scots"); x has to be a regular language. Only the "source language" name (the second parameter in ) is displayed in the template output. — Eru·tuon 22:26, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , whatever be the strait, since a Middle Scots entry has been created, we needs must find a solution for this. —Lbdñk (talk) 11:08, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If a solution cannot be found, there is still always the alternate option of moving the entry to Scots. Leasnam (talk) 14:28, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Didna get... d'you mean merging the two entries into one? There is already a Scots entry, and I do not think we should forgo the Middle Scots entry, as Middle Scots is very much an independent language on its own. —Lbdñk (talk) 14:52, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * We could merge, or keep both and turn one into an Alternative form entry, labelling the senses specific to Middle Scots at the Scots page. That however is not what I am suggesting, as I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Middle Scots as a language...I'm just making sure we don't back ourselves into a sticky situation Leasnam (talk) 15:02, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * How different are Middle Scots and (modern?) Scots? If the two were consistently separated, how many entries would be duplicated? If this were done, which of the two headers would entries for Old Scots words (if there are any) be under? — Eru·tuon 15:46, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not certain. It seems like splitting hairs to me. My concern would be insufficient support if we added Old/Early and Middle Scots. We barely keep up with the Scots entries as is. Leasnam (talk) 16:30, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keeping Middle Scots words under the Scots header (Category:Middle Scots is empty, but there might be some matches in the search results for, particularly those with "Middle Scots" in ) solves that problem. — Eru·tuon 16:54, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It is important to mark that Early Scots is but a northern Middle English dialect (having descended from the Northumbrian dialect of Old English), so we would never need Early Scots entries, and as such we do give many alternative dialectal variants in the Middle English entries. However, Middle Scots had both diverged markedly from Early Scots, and is quite different from Modern Scots (which has been heavily influenced by Modern English) in orthography etc., so we cannot do without Middle Scots. —Lbdñk (talk) 16:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If Middle Scots orthography is significantly different (I'm clearly pretty ignorant about Scots), maybe many entries would not be duplicated. Middle Scots can be promoted to a regular language, but this isn't the right place discuss it; WT:BP or WT:RFM is more appropriate. I've posted at . — Eru·tuon 17:02, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Very good points, all. Thanks @Erutuon ! Leasnam (talk) 20:33, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It's not a completely Middle Scots entry – the header says Middle Scots, but the language code in the headword template says Scots. — Eru·tuon 15:44, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is because we don't have a working Middle Scots code to use (the whole point of this discussion :) Leasnam (talk) 16:29, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Scots noun template: unknown plural
It would be good if sco-noun worked with an unknown plural, like. This is useful when you don't know whether a word is uncountable or countable (or, I suppose, when you know it's countable but aren't sure of the plural, but that's not too likely with Scots). Equinox ◑ 02:07, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

WT:RFVN cat + Thai script
The "Tagged RFVs" category (request category page list) near the top of WT:RFVN is using Thai script (e.g. "Requests for verification in Afrikaans entries (1 น)"). Can't figure out why; the template is fine in its other transclusions, and the category itself is good too. Julia ☺ ☆ 16:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing English abbreviations: "Requests for verification in Afrikaans entries (0 c, 1 e)". — Eru·tuon 16:21, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It fixed itself for me right after I posted, so I guess that's solved. Julia ☺ ☆ 16:25, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Strange. This is controlled by "Internationalisation" in the "User profile" section of "Preferences"; it's as if it temporarily switched to Thai. — Eru·tuon 16:32, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Regex help needed
Please see Special:AbuseFilter/32. My new section about "given-names vandal". It's supposed to block edits like this one. I don't think it's right, though I find the abuse filter testing tools hard to use so maybe I just wasn't searching recent edits properly. Please check and fix if you can. This vandal has persisted for many years and is clearly sick in the head. Equinox ◑ 18:21, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Small bot-jobs
Here is a small bot task that would be nice if someone could run a bot to do.

1.1 Replacing ===Enclitic=== and ===Proclitic=== with ===Pronoun=== in all members of the following categories: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Kambera_enclitics and https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Kambera_proclitics 1.2 Replacing and  with. 1.3 Adding the category tag Category:Kambera pronominal clitics to all pages 2.1 Replacing ===Enclitic=== with ===Pronoun=== in all members of the following category https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Lamboya_enclitics 2.2 Replacing with. 2.3 Adding the category tag Category:Lamboya pronominal clitics to all pages

Thanks in advance! Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 05:56, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I did the second job with JavaScript Wiki Browser. — Eru·tuon 14:35, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * thanks a billion! Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 16:17, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Are these all done? Can you strike out the ones that are done? Thanks! Benwing2 (talk) 21:56, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Template:audio/styles.css
Hello. I created local wiki on my PC via xampp. When I want create Template:audio/styles.css some problem occur. I only added  code to LocalSettings.php. I also can't change content for that page from css to sanitized css. I think I need some additional configuration for TemplateStyles extension on LocalSettings.php. --Azpolyglot85 (talk) 09:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I think hardly any of us Wiktionary editors have any experience with the PHP backend for Wiktionary, because the Wikimedia folks handle it. You might try posting about this on Extension talk:TemplateStyles on MediaWiki wiki. — Eru·tuon 16:11, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

interwiki to Beer
From Beer parlour I go to the greek room from left-hand menu, as stated at wikidata. But when I am at the greek room and click the English from ITS menu, I get lettuce. Is it vandalism? or did the Beer parlour turn vegetarian? sarri.greek (talk) 16:22, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Improvement for Module:nyms
Usage of the templates, below each definition line is much preferred over the older format using   or   which require separate headers.

I would like to suggest the following improvements to Module:nyms as it still lacks some functionality:
 * 1) Italics for transliteration of terms into Latin script. The current output is not italicized.
 * e.g. →
 * 1) A   parameter to specify the meaning of, , , etc.
 * e.g.
 * ,  parameter and   parameter for languages such as Serbo-Croatian or Malay which use multiple writing systems in different scripts.
 * eg.
 * eg.

I hope User:Rua (creator of the module) or somebody else would be able to look into this matter. KevinUp (talk) 21:35, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Numbered alt parameters are already used for link text (and that shouldn't be changed because it's a widespread convention), so the form in another script would need a different parameter name. It might be fine to use numbered altsc parameters, because at least in most cases script can be automatically detected, certainly in the example you gave: . This would only allow one alternative script. — Eru·tuon 22:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think alternative forms should be listed under synonyms. Otherwise it would become ridiculous in some cases. The synonyms should link to the main lemma only, which should list alternative forms. Likewise, glosses are unnecessary, because they are synonyms and antonyms, and moreover they clutter up the display. It's supposed to be a simple list that fits on one line, otherwise we might as well use a section for it. —Rua (mew) 08:35, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Regarding #1, according to User:Surjection, "it uses  which should use italic, so this would probably need more changes in the language data, like some kind of flag whether to italicize transliterations" (quoted verbatim).
 * Regarding #2, the  parameter can be used in non-English entries such as 偶然 because in some cases, word X and word Y are considered antonyms, but the meanings of X and Y can be broken down to more specific meanings in English.
 * Regarding #3, I am requesting this mainly for Malay entries, because the main form is in Latin script (compare and ). I noticed some irregularities in this edit, where the synonyms header was eliminated. I think the suggestion by Erutuon to use ,   is a good one.
 * By the way, these improvements are for non-English entries, so please consider them. KevinUp (talk) 10:22, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Italics are for mentions within running English text. These are not mentions, since they occur alone in a list, just like in the old Synonyms section. So they should not be italic. I maintain that glosses should not be added to -nyms, because that's not what the list is for. Glosses would make the list extremely long and hard to read, when all we're trying to do is list -nyms, not their meanings. For meanings, we have the actual entries. The same applies to alternative forms. We should not be in the habit of trying to duplicate part of the function of entries inside lists on other entries. Such lists should not define the term, give its inflection, pronunciation, alternative forms etc. Their purpose is to link to the entries, not replace them. —Rua (mew) 10:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

standardChars
Will standardChars in Module:languages recognize combining diacritics as part of the preceding character? Or will it treat the diacritic as its own character?

I'd like to add standardChars for Mecayapan Nahuatl so that a̱e̱i̱o̱ are recognized as standard characters and other diacritic combinations are not, but I suspect that it will treat the diacritic as a character on its own, and thus allow it anywhere.

Likewise, is it possible to get standardChars to recognize a digraph as a standard character, so that the same letters outside of the character are recognized as nonstandard? Mecayapan Nahuatl use the digraph "tz" but does not normally use "z" on its own. --Lvovmauro (talk) 09:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Currently,  can only match a set of  and of ranges of code points, not of sequences of code points. So it can check for the code point COMBINING MACRON BELOW but not that this code point only appears after a, e, i, or o; similarly it cannot check that z only appears after t.
 * But what do you want to achieve with this? At the moment, the only way  is used is to populate categories like Category:English terms by their individual characters. With your proposed additions, any Mecayapan Nahuatl entries whose title contains a z not in the tz digraph would be added to Category:Mecayapan Nahuatl terms spelled with z and any whose title contains COMBINING MACRON BELOW not after a, e, i, or o would be added to Category:Mecayapan Nahuatl terms spelled with &. I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like a situation where you'd want to find Mecayapan Nahuatl words that are using z and COMBINING MACRON BELOW incorrectly and mark them for cleanup, which can be done in Module:script utilities. — Eru·tuon 17:01, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

New reference template for Swedish
Hi, today I created Template:R:tre linking to svenska.se as a replacement for Template:R:SAOL which links to an older verbatim copy of SAOL only, Template:R:SO and Template:R:SAOB online.

Template:R:tre links to all three of the dictionaries of Svenska Akademin and gives a nice overview. I believe it is better to have one good template for the new website than these 3 old templates that link to resources that might disappear anytime now that Svenska Akademin has created and is pushing svenska.se.

I suggest that we use a robot to switch from the old templates to the new template as all words found in SAOL, SO and SAOB are present in svenska.se. It is a much better website and I see no reasons to hold back. WDYT?--So9q (talk) 15:44, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Good thought, although it would be hard to pinpoint from which of the three sources the info has been gathered, and I find that quite problematic.Jonteemil (talk) 16:41, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with that it is quite problematic to leave it ambiguous which is the source, and I think it would be better to indicate that and to have a separate reference to each dictionary if more than one of them is referenced. This could still be achieved with a single template, however, e.g.   could give a reference to a different dictionary based on the parameter and change the link accordingly. Their URL scheme is quite simple: https://svenska.se/saob/?sok=akademi, where the middle part can be changed to   or  . A bot can then convert the existing references to SAOB to the new template without losing any information. – Krun (talk) 11:00, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with you both and like your solution, Krun. :) I will change the template to reflect your suggestion and report back here when I'm done.--So9q (talk) 06:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Done, example use. It accepts one parameter currently, and works with the form wrote above. Are we ready to ask for a robot to make the change?--So9q (talk) 13:43, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I just fixed it so it doesn't display a module error on the template page. Please verify that I didn't break anything. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:57, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It works fine. Thanks :)--So9q (talk) 16:22, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks good. – Krun (talk) 09:08, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I will proceed with advertising a bot job to make the change.--So9q (talk) 11:49, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Conjugation template help
I would like to rewrite to allow for verbs ending in -car, -gar, and -jar without a separate template like  (which is poorly named because it serves other verb endings). Isn't there a way to have spelling changes for these endings controlled by a 2 parameter in the conjugation template, e.g.  for tancar, while allowing regular verbs like cansar to still be   and infer that the 2 parameter is the same as 1 if 2 isn't explicit? Ultimateria (talk) 06:02, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Use  for the second root. It defaults to 1 if 2 doesn't exist. --Vriullop (talk) 13:02, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That's just what I needed, thank you! Ultimateria (talk) 15:44, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Would  be terribly inefficient? There are two overlapping spelling changes that I'd like to incorporate into the template if possible. Ultimateria (talk) 16:48, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It's fine. It's Lua memory rather than complex template syntax that causes problems for us. — Eru·tuon 16:51, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

 * Super pretty. Reminds me of when I had to write pure SQL to pick the postcode out of a string like '10 High Street|Blahtown|County|X1 1AA' and it ended up looking like SUBSTRING(CHARINDEX(SUBSTRING(CHARINDEX(SUBSTRING(CHARINDEX(SUBSTRING(CHARINDEX(... Equinox ◑ 03:36, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Suggestion: Make it easier to add translations where there is none like sv:wikipedia
Hi, I really like the JS-script on sv:wiktionary that look like this Lägg till översättningar... -> Add translations... and enables the reader to easily begin adding translations using the translation-js-ui on articles with no translations yet. See e.g. sv:r%C3%A4kneh%C3%A4fte.

I suggest we add that here too. Any reactions?--So9q (talk) 16:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

List of articles with nb-translation but no da-translation
Hi, I would like to have a list of articles with nb-translations but lacking da-translations. These languages are very similar and with such a list I would work my way through and add danish translations.

I have knowledge of parsing with PEG and Guile from before but I thought to ask here before I dive into a dumpfile in case anyone already have a tool or easy solution to the problem. --So9q (talk) 19:14, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

 * You can start here: Category:Norwegian Bokmål lemmas and Category:Norwegian Nynorsk lemmas. DonnanZ (talk) 19:35, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Here is a list of titles that contain at least one  translation but no   translation (in  or ). They are not necessarily translations of the same sense, or even in the same Translations section. (I generated it from files of template instances from the latest dump with no context besides the page name.) — Eru·tuon 00:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Big thanks, this was exactly what I wanted :)--So9q (talk) 11:55, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * You are not going to find SoP terms in that list which qualify for entries in Norwegian or Danish but are scorned in English. E.g. (= fortified town) just done. DonnanZ (talk) 12:03, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Great! I copied the list to User:So9q/nb translations with no da because I'm going to use the sandbox page for something else eventually. — Eru·tuon 16:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , can you please share the script or program you used to create this list?--So9q (talk) 08:20, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a somewhat complicated process, involving Rust and C and Lua 5.3. I generated the list with a Lua script using bindings to a -parsing library written in C, from CBOR files containing all instances of various templates (including and ) generated by a Rust program from the latest pages-articles.xml file from the dump. But I haven't optimized the process to make it easy to set up.
 * The Rust program is essential; without it, it's painfully slow to search through template instances. But the data format and the scripting language could be changed; I could have the program output JSON or rewrite the script in Python, which is easier to install and get libraries for. — Eru·tuon 20:04, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi again, could you create a similar list for sv (with da or nb or no translations)? What about a list for sv, nb, no, da where the article is a noun and the gender is missing from the translation? :p You are free to go ahead and put the lists in my userspace if you succed.--So9q (talk) 16:30, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, see User:So9q/da nb no without sv; the other request requires more work. I haven't done anything that requires checking which header a template is under. — Eru·tuon 17:45, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Maybe in pseudocode we could do something like
 * Doable? It does not have to distinguish between the individual translations. You are welcome to post the code snippet here or on a suitable page for me to see. :)--So9q (talk) 05:05, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Probably it could be done with regex or Lua patterns somehow, but I made a Rust program to parse the dump and run a Lua function, which it gives the templates in a section and the headers over them: . So then I had a Lua function check that the list of headers contains "English" and "Noun" and "Translations" and then look through the translation templates and print any matching templates with their titles. I posted the titles at User:So9q/translations without gender. — Eru·tuon 04:02, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Wow that was fast! I really appreciate this. Thanks. Actually I don't know Norwegian well enough to add genders, could you split this list into one for each language, so I can ask a native to look through it?--So9q (talk) 07:43, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. I put the separated lists on subpages. — Eru·tuon 08:46, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. I put the separated lists on subpages. — Eru·tuon 08:46, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

how to upload a tabbed list?
I'm sure the how-to is around here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. I've been asked to help with Khoekhoegowab ("Nama") for a curriculum project in Namibia. To start with, we have a short (thousand entry) dictionary reformated as a spreadsheet. I don't think AWB will handle this directly -- at least at my level of knowledge, it would take multiple passes for the formatting, IPA, inflections and categories (e.g. sort the list by part of speech, then customize AWB to run the nouns, verbs, etc. separately, plus an additional run to convert the non-tonic orthography and tone category into IPA), and even then I'd have to copy-paste the definitions manually. How could I automate this if, say, col A is the lemma, B the English definition?

Thanks, kwami (talk) 02:51, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The simplest way is to have col C with a formula that assembles the contents of col A and col B into the correct format for an entry (including  functions for the newline characters), then to copy col C into col D as values only. That means each cell would have the contents of one entry. If you need it in a text file, it should be pretty simple to select the cells in col D that have the data, copy, then paste into the text file. There are probably more efficient and elegant ways, but this can be done quickly without any special software if you know how to do formulas with text in Excel. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:19, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm fine with Excel formulas, but I seem to be missing something very very basic here. How do I get any of the data into Wiktionary? My approach would be to paste the list of lemmas into the article list in AWB, then code it to append lines to each (newly created) article that give it its structure, with the header and IPA based on %%title%%. I'd then do another run to convert %%title%% to the form I want for the declination templates to generate the proper forms, etc. I'd have to do separate runs for each part of speech. But, apart from me pasting the lemmas in the article list, none of that is actually taking data from the DB. I have no idea at all how to approach that. kwami (talk) 08:22, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I never tried to do anything as fancy as creating new entries from a file with AWB (or JWB). I wouldn't have thought it possible. It sounds more like a bot task. — Eru·tuon 03:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know if it's possible with AWB either. Is it possible for an editor to mimic how a bot would do this, except of course for manually saving each edit? For AWB, all I can think of is pasting in a chunk of the DB, then deleting all lines that don't start with the page title. But that would be awfully clunky, even if I could get it to work. I was hoping there would be some other approach to use a DB to control the edit. kwami (talk) 05:48, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, if you have experience with Python, perhaps you could use Pywikibot to make a non-bot script. I made scripts (for semi-automatically correcting bad characters in link templates for languages that use Cyrillic and Arabic) that I decided didn't require a bot account because they show me the changes and prompt me to manually save the edit by typing into the command line. My interpretation of the bot policy was that it's okay to use a script if you have to check and approve each edit. So far nobody has objected. It helps that my edits haven't had problems (or I've corrected them). — Eru·tuon 06:44, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, that's my understanding as well. I never learned Python, but that's something to look into. There might be something in the script library. kwami (talk) 07:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah, yes. It looks like pagefromfile.py will work. Thanks for the tip! I'm not sure when the project will get going, but I think now I should be able to manage it. kwami (talk) 07:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

3 small bot jobs
Thanks in advance!--So9q (talk) 11:54, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) Replace {{R:SAOL with {{R:svenska.se|saol
 * 2) Replace {{R:SO with {{R:svenska.se|so
 * 3) Replace "{{R:SAOB online" with {{R:svenska.se|saob
 * {{ping|So9q}} Should all be done. I took the liberty of removing the 2nd param from the various templates as I converted them; this param is no longer used. Benwing2 (talk) 08:45, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 * {{reply to|benwing2}} I don't understand. Could you give an example of what you removed? Passing a second param in svenska.se is needed sometimes.--So9q (talk) 07:34, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Template:head doesn't add Category:(lang) lemmas when "personal pronoun" is the part of speech
When I put "personal pronoun" as the part of speech using Template:head, it doesn't add Category:(lang) lemmas to the page as usual. How could I fix it? --YukaSylvie (talk) 04:15, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Use "pronoun" instead. We don't use "personal pronoun" as the primary part of speech. The template does allow secondary parts of speech, so you can put personal pronouns in there, too. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:43, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Importing audio from commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation
There are several thousand audio files here that can be imported. I know the naming convention for files isn't 100% consistent, but it's at least the username and language are. Does anyone with a bot volunteer to do this? Ultimateria (talk) 04:29, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Making TranslationAdder.js work on mobile browsers
Hi, I want to hear if there is a need/support for adding this feature? I for one would like to see the mobile interface improved and this is one of several changes that I have in mind. WDYT?--So9q (talk) 18:39, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I now got it to work if anyone is interested in trying it out add this to your common.js:
 * --So9q (talk) 20:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I switched to the monobook skin in my preferences and found that to work better than the default on mobile.--So9q (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * One thing that needs to be considered carefully: how do we prevent mobile users from accidentally adding translations via hitting random characters?
 * We've had a flood of accidental edits in the past few years from new mobile IP users in areas where many can't read English. We've had to set up abuse filters to deal with creation of nonsense entries by these mobile users due to accidental use of our new-entry creators or accidental clicking of redlinks after failed searches.
 * It's real hard getting translations patrolled as it is, due to the lack of patrollers who know many of the languages. I don't want to have translations that consist of search terms or other random nonsense to add to the workload. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:57, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I was not aware that this was/is a problem at all. I think we should make it easy for good people to edit how they want, and keep the defaults so that we do not get loads of crap edits.--So9q (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Solved: Show hidden translations by default
Hi, does anyone here know what to add to my common.js to make the translations be shown by default? I tried adding this to my common.css but to no avail: I presume it did not work because it is overwritten by some JS onload. So I tried running this in the console: It works if I run unhide from the console but not on page load. Any ideas?--So9q (talk) 21:27, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * There's a "Visibility" menu on the sidebar. On a page with translations, you can click "Show translations" and the translations will always be expanded. — Eru·tuon 21:32, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

 * Fantastic! Thanks for helping me solve this also.--So9q (talk) 04:11, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2019/August