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User talk:-sche/Archive/2016

all heart
Why did you delete that page? Do you think that it’s sum‐of‐parts? -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 00:03, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Because it was just nonsense, the page contained only the text "i love my family and everybody else around me". --WikiTiki89 00:30, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Ah! All right. Still, do you think that this entry would be acceptable if it were properly designed? -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 00:36, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Depends on what meaning you have in mind. --WikiTiki89 00:37, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Hmm. I'm familiar with the collocation in sayings like "She was all heart" (=was very loving and/or compassionate, that kind of thing), but it does seem like it might just be "all" + "heart", and one can also say things like "She was all brain(s)" (=was very smart, perhaps without things like social awareness, hence the "all"), or "She was all legs" (=had long legs). - -sche (discuss) 00:50, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * "Definitions" 2 and 4 of heart cover the range of meanings of heart as used in "all heart" in my experience and in a review of the phrase at COCA. DCDuring TALK 02:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you
For finishing cleaning out RFV, especially given that it had become too large to archive. The page that really needs your help, though, is WT:RFM (and I suppose to a lesser extent WT:RFDO), because I simply can't close many of those. Some of them are language mergers etc.; the ones that you haven't looked at need some expert attention, and even those upon which we've come to a consensus need to be executed. I still don't know all the steps one ought to go through to handle mergers and name changes (is there a manual somewhere?). The other hitch is that I don't have AWB, so it's a lot harder to find all the uses of a language's name or go through every page in a category to change it, which especially slows down requests at RFDO. Anyway, I appreciate the help! Cheers —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I will take a look. As for AWB, you could download it; it's not that hard to learn. There is Guide to adding and removing languages; changing a language's name is not handled too differently from removing a language (you have to find the same things — old uses). - -sche (discuss) 00:55, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I have a Mac, so using AWB would require virtual Windows AFAICT. In any case, I should've known about that guide — thanks. I'm not always sure where to archive the discussions, though. In any case, I guess all that I really need is for you to weigh in on long-ignored discussions. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:55, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Update of "Template:quote-book/source"
Hi! I have done an update of, which is at (see  for sample uses). The main changes are these: If it looks all right, could you please replace with the contents of the sandbox? Thanks. Smuconlaw (talk) 09:03, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Improved handling of format, genre, language and doi.
 * Addition of archiveurl and archivedate.
 * ✅. I'm monitoring Category:ParserFunction errors to see if errors arise, and actually, it looks like the category is losing a few pages, though that may be due to [//en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Wiktionary:Tea_room/2014/February&curid=4236246&diff=37031306&oldid=36815770 Kenny's edits]. :) Still, thanks for all your hard work sorting out these quotation templates! - -sche (discuss) 17:46, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and you're most welcome. Let me know if anything in the template needs fixing. Smuconlaw (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Whoops, there seems to be a space missing if title and publisher are specified, but location is not: see "freedom of speech". (I don't think this was an issue created by me.) Fixed it at . Smuconlaw (talk) 20:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Cool Beans
Have added a recording of the phrase at the discussion page below, can it be added to the actual page?

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:cool_beans

Collocations data
I don't think our discussions of collocation space included anything about what the data might actually look like. I have a 1.7Mb file of sample (free) data from COCA. We could try using it for a few polysemic words for a demo, to determine its actual value to us, etc. The cost of getting more complete sets would not be prohibitive. I don't think it could be part of Wiktionary because of licensing. There are really only a handful or two of Wiktionarians that could and would make good use of the data anyway. DCDuring TALK 02:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The mock up that you provided would add little value to English, for which we would want frequency data at the very least. I guess I am thinking principally of improving the quality of English definitions, not just of providing a home for translation targets out of principal namespace. Perhaps I should add the kind of table I am thinking of. DCDuring TALK 21:14, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Hmm, yes, that would help me to understand what you're thinking of. Recording which collocations are most common? (Some usage notes already do that — added by you, I think; thanks!) - -sche (discuss) 21:34, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * See Talk:goods. DCDuring TALK 22:51, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Is "frequency of collocation" how often that collocation occurs in the corpus? Then what are "total frequency" and "mutual info"?
 * Access to this kind of information seems like it would be helpful to Wiktionary in determining which collocations to list (and in what order). The frequencies of the different collocations might also be of interest to some readers. Is COCA copyrighted? Wiktionary should consider whether it would be infringing COCA's copyright to repeat such information in a large number of entries.
 * The table is quite large; obviously, it could be made collapsible. Another possibility would be condensing it radically into the list format a few entries (usage notes) already use: Words which collocate with goods: (goods and) services ([data from whichever field best indicates how often this collocation is relative to other collocations goes here]), consumer (goods) ([data]), [...]. It would also be possible to combine the table's data with translation tables, by putting the information from each row of the table into the "gloss" atop each translation table.
 * - -sche (discuss) 08:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * "Frequency of collocation" is frequency of the collocation (occurrence within 4 words of the main term, before or after) in the corpus, "total frequency" is the frequency of the individual term (eg, services) in the corpus. "Mutual information" is a measure of the strength of the association between the terms (ie, between goods and services)
 * I've started using this. (See sheer.) It is most helpful for polysemic words, but also helps determine whether a term is polysemic. I have had a brief e-mail discussion with Mark Davies at BYU who has pulled this together. I think we can experiment with this for quite a while before we would have to consider our options. I know that he would not be happy with our license terms.
 * Ultimately the presentation would probably be most useful if we grouped the collocates by the definition(s) most appropriate for them and their part of speech and presented them in decreasing order of frequency, first by PoS, then by term.
 * But the table that would be most useful for a contributor is one exactly like what is in [[goods]], but with a fuller list of collocates of the headword. We need such a voluminous table if we hope to cover all (well, most, actually) of the definitions in some of our polysemic entries. So I don't think they could fit in translation table headers. DCDuring TALK 00:12, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

adverbs Monday, Tuesday etc.
Yep, that's fine what you have done. I considered doing that, but I thought some "wise guy" would come along and revert my edits denying the truth, hence the wording I used. Cheers! Donnanz (talk) 23:32, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Do Brits not say that? --WikiTiki89 23:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope. On Tuesday, on Tuesdays etc. It's not the same as on the west side of the pond. Donnanz (talk) 23:46, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I mean, we also say "on Tuesday", but not always. In fact I would probably say that "on Tuesday" is more common than just "Tuesday" adverbially. I'm trying to think whether there is a pattern to when the "on" is dropped. --WikiTiki89 23:54, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have heard it minus "on" on American media, also read it in American literature. I tend to notice the usage when I see or hear it. There are also entries in Oxford saying this. Donnanz (talk) 00:14, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it doesn't exist. It is pretty common, but what I'm saying is that I don't think it is the primary usage. And I'm wondering whether there's a pattern to how it's used. --WikiTiki89 01:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

 * FWIW I ran the numbers and ngrams confirm the regional divide; it's about twice as common to say "work on Tuesday(s)" than "work Tuesday(s)" in [//books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%28to+work+Tuesday*2%29%2Cto+work+on+Tuesday%2C%28work+Tuesdays*2%29%2Cwork+on+Tuesdays&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=17&smoothing=6&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%28to%20work%20Tuesday%20*%202%29%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cto%20work%20on%20Tuesday%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2C%28work%20Tuesdays%20*%202%29%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwork%20on%20Tuesdays%3B%2Cc0 US books], whereas in [//books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%28to+work+Tuesday*2%29%2Cto+work+on+Tuesday%2C%28work+Tuesdays*2%29%2Cwork+on+Tuesdays&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=18&smoothing=6&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cto%20work%20on%20Tuesday%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cwork%20on%20Tuesdays%3B%2Cc0 UK books] the "on"-less forms are too rare to register. - -sche (discuss) 06:06, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Michäas
Could you look at the IPA for Michäas? This is just my guess. — JohnC5 03:50, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've actually never encountered this form. In Ngrams, it seems to have been about 1/20th as common as Micha until the 1870s, thereafter about 1/50th as common (with a spike in 1952) until the 1980s, and thereafter trending sharply downwards towards about 1/1000th as common by 2008. I would pronounce it the way you noted. - -sche (discuss) 04:56, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! — JohnC5 05:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Huh
So the term girl can't be used in a platonic context, but only in a romantic? Ubuntuuser13 (talk) 03:00, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Nvm, I've opened up an RfV for it. Ubuntuuser13 (talk) 03:10, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Definition one ("A young female human") and two ("Any woman, regardless of her age") and five cover non-romantic use, do they not? Are there citations where "girl" means "a female friend" as opposed to "a [young] female (who may or may not be a friend)"? That might clarify matters. As it is, it seems like someone calling a female friend a "girl" is comparable to someone calling a blond-haired friend a "blond" — it doesn't cause "blond" to mean "a blond-haired friend", it's just the general definition. Usage like "girl, let's go see Andy!" is sense 5, the term of endearment. - -sche (discuss) 03:12, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Just so you know I've opened up an RfV. Ubuntuuser13 (talk) 03:26, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. - -sche (discuss) 02:13, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:French Translingual
Category:Regional Translingual -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 13:52, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for noticing those. - -sche (discuss) 02:13, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

ISO codes
Hey thanks for updating according to the new ISO standards. I was noticing when adding ancestors that we are missing some of the more newly added ISO codes. Is there anywhere I could look for a list of the new, merged, and deleted codes? — JohnC5 05:32, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Changes to the standard are published here. :) I'm going through the 2015 changes now. - -sche (discuss) 05:41, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll let you do it then! Tell me if you need any help. I'm a little terrified of sorting Austronesian. — JohnC5 05:50, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The key to understanding the structure of the Austronesian languages is admitting that there isn't much: you have Malayo-Polynesian and the various Formosan branches, but within Malayo-Polynesian there are no widely accepted proto-languages outside of Oceanic and an assortment of local groupings. There are areal phenomena and substrata that let you classify Malayo-Polynesian into major subgroups, but those subgroups aren't genetic at all. Blust reconstructs all kinds of things, but his approach is to plug word lists into cladistics software designed for plant and animal taxonomy to produce trees, then use comparative reconstruction on the branches. His Austronesian Comparative Dictionary has an extremely impressive amount of data, but he regularizes the orthography, so you need to check the spelling against other sources, and you can't trust the comparative stuff due to his methodology. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:18, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * ...So we're doomed until better research is done? :( — JohnC5 15:29, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:fr:Mythological locations
I noticed you added this to Champs-Élysées, while removing the entry from Category:fr:Fictional locations. Just thought I'd let you know that no such category currently exists. Pur ple back pack 89  19:06, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've created it. - -sche (discuss) 21:31, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

zerkreuzen and other things
Thanks for the catch! I am indeed aware of the fact that we don't use the IPA ligature, and I do indeed copypaste from de.Wikt. I normally will catch those, but I also forget, as you saw. By the way, if you'd like to take a break from your wonderful work updating the mod:languages data, I could use the help of some more German editors. Kenny and I have written a new mod:de-headword that is already running the nouns, proper nouns, and adjectives, and has the verb logic written but not in use. The new logic allows us to detected the inflection type (strong, weak, irregular, etc.) of verbs automatically, which means that they may all be merged under. It also means, however, that we need to manually sort the current trnasclusions of de-verb into either, , and. Once that is done, we'll switch to the new module then have a bot merge all the other templates into it. If you'd be willing to help move the remainder of de-verb's tranclusions, I would appreciate the help, but only if you have the time. Regardless, thanks for the IPA fix! :) — JohnC5 06:15, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It's been a while since I used the de-verb templates, so I'll have to refresh myself on all the parameters, but I'll try to help out. - -sche (discuss) 08:22, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Where?
You wrote "as you have been told previously, such obsolete invariant forms aren't listed in entries' tables". Where have I been told that? -Random187056 (talk) 22:51, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * When you've added RFCs to other entries requesting that such invariant forms be added to the tables. - -sche (discuss) 23:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Languages that use the IPA
Are there seriously languages that adopted the international phonetic alphabet? I know that it’s possible, but I thought that every language with writers simply had its own alphabet. -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 05:19, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It’s not that they adopt IPA, it’s that the only documentation available for a lot of languages is articles published by linguists. These tend to use IPA out of convenience, without any intention of establishing it as the language’s official writing system. — Ungoliant (falai) 05:29, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Right. That said, a few languages have adopted IPA or IPA-like alphabets. `- -sche (discuss)

sy³³
Hi -sche. I'm not sure whether the ping on Talk:sy³³ worked properly - I'm having doubts about the use of IPA to write languages mostly unwritten or lacking a writing system. Could you point me to the policy on this? Wyang (talk) 05:19, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Holy shit! We both made the same topic simultaneously! -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 05:20, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * As a side note, has a Latin-based writing system: see for example, ,  and . Wyang (talk) 05:23, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * In the general case: if we are to include words from languages which have been written down using IPA and which have not been written down in another way -- and they meet the criteria for inclusion, so I don't see a basis for excluding them -- how else would you suggest including them, if not in the way that other references do? (That's not a rhetorical question.)
 * I don't know that we have (m)any policy pages spelling out which scripts to include languages in (except some language-specific policies allowing multiple scripts, e.g. allowing Cyrillic Romanian). De facto we've had entries like this for years, e.g. naːnʔ³³, paʔ²⁴, and wã³nũ³tũ̱³ka̱³txi³su².
 * In this particular case, if there is another script we can match these entries to (either Chinese, or a Latin script), and you want to make the argument that these should be mapped to and moved to that script even if it's not the one they're attested in, that's OK by me.
 * - -sche (discuss) 05:44, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * For the first question, I think it would be best to hold off on creating entries in that language, until a substantial amount of studies have been done on that language. The status of having a writing system, or at least achieving transcriptional consistency in scholarly studies, should be used to assess whether transcriptions for a rarely attested language have become relatively stable. I don't have a strong opinion on this, however.

 * Regarding Bai language, here is a picture of the word "water" in Latin-scripted Bai: tinyurl.com/bai-xuix. I think the Bai languages should be grouped together, and recorded using this writing system. Wyang (talk) 06:21, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * We can't exactly "hold off"; that's antithetical to "all words in all languages". As for the Bai lects, do you have a source that supports grouping them? I'm inclined to agree with you just because you are so much more knowledgeable about that part of the world, but evidence helps. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:37, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This suggests that though they grade into one another, there are enough differences across the groups of lects that there is unintelligibility. That suggests that multiple centres of intelligibility may be a better way to capture what's going on, even if the ones the ISO uses are slightly arbitrary. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:41, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * "All words in all languages" is a simple enough catchline that summarises this project reasonably succinctly. We, however, do not aim to record all words in all languages, for example all the words in agglutinative languages, or transcribing words in a previously-undocumented language singlehandedly. We record lemmata and certain non-lemmata in as many languages, in forms these words are usually recorded in. (cf. the policy on neologisms)
 * Bai languages have a fairly well-conserved set of basic vocabulary across varieties, and are perceived by speakers and usually handled in studies and dictionaries as varieties of a single Bai language, which is the reason I'm in favour of the amalgamation. Wyang (talk) 07:11, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Like Metaknowledge, I'm disinclined to exclude some languages, especially ones about which we have modern (often detailed and careful) documentation, sometimes in the form of entire dictionaries, grammars, and compendia of transcribed stories. We include some old languages from which only one old text or even only one word survives; that is arguably less useful or more prone to error: maybe it happens that the one word was spelled lazily; whereas, ɕy³³ was carefully recorded as the exact word used in 8 of 9 places. We can always move the content later if the community settles on a certain orthography; we do that even when a community of speakers changes from one established, non-IPA orthography to another (e.g. German entries use the currently-used currently-prescribed spellings — not the spellings from a mere 20 years ago — as the lemmas).
 * I find some PDFs that say they are examples of Bai, and that use xuix (27, 32); the difficulty they pose is that they don't contain glosses/translations, so it's difficult to figure out how to map the scholarly transcriptions into that orthography, or tell what the words in the texts mean.
 * Most references I can find do speak of "Bai" or "the Bai language" (or "Bai Dialect[s]") as if it were a unitary thing, so I'm not opposed to merging and making liberal use of s and s. I would have entered the words as only one language if there had been a single code for that. (Interestingly, a lot of its "fairly well-conserved set of basic vocabulary across varieties" is borrowed from Chinese — 47 of 100 Swadesh items.)
 * If we merge the Bai varieties, do you think it's better to repurpose one of the varieties' codes as the code for the whole language (as we tended to do in the past, e.g. with acf/gcf), or create a new (longer) code from scratch (as we've tended to do recently)? - -sche (discuss) 08:55, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Willy2000
We've already blocked for mass creation of entries in languages they don't know based on non-English Wikipedia entries. They just created some more as an IP (, at least some in languages you've worked with. Could you check those entries? I would also appreciate your opinion on whether to start mass-deleting their entries in an attempt to get them to stop. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:34, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

 * He could also just nuke his work, but that’s kind of a lazy thing to do (in my view). Still, I can understand why he’d prefer that. -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 13:42, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * By "mass-deleting", I was referring to what we call nuking. As for laziness: volunteer time from people who are knowledgeable enough to check Willy200's edits is a precious resource that shouldn't be wasted on following people around to clean up their messes- unless those volunteers want to do it. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:55, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

 * The Pennsylvania German words were correct. can probably shed light on which Central Franconian spellings should be made the lemmas and which should be alternative forms, but the spellings this user entered are at least correct as alternative forms. Entries created based on Wikipedia articles could be wrong (in the BP we're discussing how some Wikipedias make up words), but when it comes to basic concepts like these, they're probably correct (which is probably why the user thinks it's OK). At least, it will normally be possible to find out what the correct terms are and move the entries (for well-documented languages, anyway; I'm having trouble finding out about Lombard), so I wouldn't nuke all the entries, but maybe the ones that it's not possible to find independent confirmation of (like Lombard). - -sche (discuss) 16:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

 * The days of the week? They look okay. Only in Sambsdaach I don't see any need for the -b-; the normal spelling would be Samsdaach, but Ripuarian wikipedia seems to use Sambsdaach, too, for whatever reason. Kolmiel (talk) 15:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, and Freidaach is Moselle Franconian, while all the other forms entered are Kölsch. Kölsch for Friday would be Friedaach. Kolmiel (talk) 15:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

homoflexible
Hi. What prompted my removal of my edit to the homoflexible page? You asked me to move it to the homoflexible page from the homofelxibility page, and I did, yet you took it down again. What, may I ask was wrong with it? I very much want my edit to stay, so if there is anything I can do to, to make it right, please let me know.

Amuzgo entries
These need some cleanup after your rename of the language. DTLHS (talk) 03:16, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I tried to go through them with AWB yesterday but I couldn't log in (perhaps the same problem Semper mentions that his bot is having). - -sche (discuss) 06:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * (Now that AWB is working again,) I think I've fixed all the Amuzgo entries, and now only have to fix a couple dozen translations-table entries. - -sche (discuss) 16:04, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

suwë
Did you mean to add this word to the translation table of woman or water? The definition you put says water and I was curious as to whether something had gone wrong. Tulros (talk) 10:52, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks for catching that! I added the Yanomamö translation of water and an entry for it, and then copied and pasted that to create this entry, but forgot to change the gloss (despite updating the references!). - -sche (discuss) 16:02, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Palochka
Currently the Russian Wiktionary has a mixed use of lowercase (20%) and uppercase (80%) Palochka. I'm trying to understand what is right. In this discussion on en.wiktionary in August 2012, you stated that "we should use the lower case", but was there any reason or documentation behind this recommendation? I think the Wikimedia project that uses this character the most is the Chechen Wikipedia, and it is totally dominated by the uppercase Palochka. I found 2.7 million occurrences in the latest XML dump. It would be nice if we could find a consensus covering all WMF projects on how to handle this special character. --LA2 (talk) 21:50, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * There's an ongoing discussion at User talk:Stephen G. Brown. It would make things easier if we didn't have millions of discussions in different places on the same topic. If you feel that someone's input is needed, it's better to direct them to an existing discussion than to start a new one on their talk page. --WikiTiki89 21:10, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Leftovers from Zarphatic merge
Just on the off chance these were overlooked: see CAT:E. If you just haven't gotten around to fixing them, never mind. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks; I had searched for pages containing the language code, but I got the impression that the site was in the middle of updating (to reflect the removal of the code) at the time, which apparently means those few pages were in limbo and didn't show up. - -sche (discuss) 16:24, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * son got missed, probably because I said Zarphatic and the translation in question is Shuadit... Chuck Entz (talk) 03:27, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Old Italian module errors
Hi, -sche. It seems your edit to roa-oit in the modules caused a bunch of module errors. Please see CAT:E. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:33, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think I've fixed them all. - -sche (discuss) 02:08, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

All those languages
I've added another stack of them to RFM, which is now positively flooded. I'll probably stop adding anything for some time now; I've a planned wikibreak coming up somewhat soon. I'm happy to help add them, but for the most part, a) it's good to have another set of eyes check things and b) it's even better when that set of eyes is as good at being scholarly as yours are. Please ping me whenever you want an opinion or need access to any research materials, etc.

On a related topic, I remembered that I'm still responsible for FWOTD for an indefinite period of time. I set a "barely attested languages" focus week recently and I was annoyed how Eurocentric it turned out to be, especially considering how many barely attested languages there are around the world. I think this merits focus weeks for the barely attested languages of North America, South America, and Australia respectively, probably spaced out over the next 6 months or so. Considering you're making the entries now, I'd really appreciate if you could keep a list of words with particularly interesting meanings (i.e. not just your typical "boy" or "fire") from such languages, either here or at WT:FWOTD/FW or on a userpage, so they can become focus weeks in the future. Thank you so much for all your hard work! —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:27, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

auto cat
I don't know if you are aware, but it may make your life easier just using " ", without the need to use a language code. See diff for example.

The auto cat should be able to work in all POS and derivation categories, but it does not work in categories that use, like Category:English language. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 01:31, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I was just running a script that replaced the deprecated codes one-to-one with the modern codes, though. I figure replacing explicit templates/parameters with auto-cat can be done by a bot whenever desired. - -sche (discuss) 18:54, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The nice thing about auto cat is that you can move categories using it without editing them, since it gets the codes from the page name. Changing it to auto cat now means you won't ever have to mess with the wikitext ever again. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:34, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Module:languages/datax
Just curious, why did you have to do a bunch of fancy deletions and moving rather than just editing the page? --WikiTiki89 17:32, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * When I tried to save the page with updated content, it had no effect - it brought me back to the edit window and hadn't changed the page (and hadn't given an error message, either — and if you look at the content I was trying to add, it was well-formed, AFAICT). This persisted in two browsers and after logging out, but didn't effect my ability to edit other pages or even other modules(!), hence I could tell it wasn't the result of the database being locked. I tried a workaround, and along the way learned that pages have 'types' set, and when moving a non-Module-space page to Module-space, it retains its classification as a non-module... :/ - -sche (discuss) 17:36, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Very strange. Our practice has been to create userspace modules as Module:User:-sche/x, that way it's in the module namespace and still works as a module. --WikiTiki89 18:08, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Btw I'm making a run of null edits to the pages in CAT:E to clear them. - -sche (discuss) 18:09, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Smuconlaw vote indentation
Ah, I see what you mean. My issue was that indenting WF's vote under mine made it look somehow "attached" to mine, like a child or subsidiary vote. Not a big deal, though; we can leave it as it is. Equinox ◑ 23:29, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it has that negative side-effect, but it seems to be the usual way of handling ineligible votes. I'm not aware of any other way of doing it, unfortunately, short of entirely removing the vote or separating it at the end of all the other votes. - -sche (discuss) 00:51, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Proto-Qiangic
Do you think there is enough evidence for it? I've found some scholarly references for this, but I don't believe the language itself has been reconstructed, only elements. — JohnC5 21:23, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

 * LaPolla reconstructs a Proto-Qiangic first-person actor suffix *-ŋa and second-person suffix *-na and some other things; other references mention other words, like *pram "white" (whence the Prinmi / Pimi / Pumi name, apparently); but several scholars such as Matisoff note that a systematic reconstruction has not been undertaken. There is extensive information on various sub-branch proto-languages (I'm not sure if that's what you mean by "elements" or if you're referring to reconstructing e.g. the lack of tone, or the phoneme *f as opposed to a word *foobar). Dominic Yu reconstructs Proto-Ersuic (I may add it later), and Guillaume Jacques and Alexis Michaud reconstruct Proto-Naic in connection with their argument that Qiangic should be called "Na-Qiangic" with Ersuic and Naic being considered separate branches alongside Qiangic rather than branches of Qiangic per se. One scholar (Chirkova) argues that Qiangic is not a family at all but rather a diffusion area, but more other scholars support a genetic relationship. But I added the family code not so much to reconstruct a proto-language as because it seemed odd to have a large number of languages sorted directly into the highest-possible family (Sino-Tibetan), lol. - -sche (discuss) 22:06, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

 * I'll admit that I kind of want this so that Kenny's Module will sort them into a subgroup. — JohnC5 02:31, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

 * That module ought to be (and I thought at one point it was) adapted to accept families and not just proto-languages. :-p As a side effect, that might encourage people to add families, the way the module's initial creation lead to a rush of adding "ancestors" (which were, however, often redundant to the family info). - -sche (discuss) 02:37, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

 * You're right: it had been suggested! ( *hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, cough, cough, gasp, gasp, asphyxiate, asphyxiate*) — JohnC5 02:42, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

 * : Please edit my ANC yourself; I'll be quite busy for the next few months. --kc_kennylau (talk) 02:50, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm clever enough to do so., might you be free? :D — JohnC5 03:09, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

About the "Visual description" section
I added separate support/oppose/abstain options for each name in Beer parlour/2016/August.

I suppose your comment "This name is too long, IMO." about "Visual description" should be counted as an oppose vote? --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:03, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Cascading protection of main page
I remember the BP discussion about this where I voiced my concerns, and I didn't remember that you ignored said concerns and proceeded to remove cascading protection. As a result, we had vandalism on the main page for more than an hour today because an anon edited the FWOTD template. The main page needs cascading protection unless you (or someone else) takes it upon themselves to find a way to protect everything that goes on the main page individually. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:43, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * FWOTD templates should be protected the way we protect WOTD templates, which is to say, individually (protect only those pages which need protection) so that all the modules that transclude them aren't restricted as collateral damage. For what it's worth, I didn't ignore your concerns, you voiced them after I acted and you were the only editor to voice concerns. - -sche (discuss) 00:55, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Sorry for my tone; I was rather angry about the vandalism, but I shouldn't have been so accusatory.
 * Obviously, protecting all the FWOTDs individually is not reasonable, given that a new one is created for each day. However, there is still a scenario where the next day's FWOTD can be vandalised and nobody will notice before it appears on the main page (as happened in this case). Can we get that one protected as well? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:54, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It's alright; I understand how easy it is to get stressed when something goes wrong, like vandalism. I'm sorry that my reply was also snippy. I think we could create a page that would load the next day's FWOTD (and then protect that page the way Template:FWOTD main is protected), if we can find the magic words to do it (I mean, the Mediawiki magic words). I've tried here (btw I am open to any suggestions if there are better names for these pages); I haven't got it working yet, but it seems like it should be possible because the preload templates for creating new votes seem to manage it. However, there doesn't seem to be a pre-made magic word for "tomorrow" (or is there?) the way there is one for "current day", so we might have to have the page load several possible templates to account for "tomorrows" at the end of months, years, etc. - -sche (discuss) 02:49, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep, looks like you'll have to special-case them all (or ask at the GP to get further advice). —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:54, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Or you could use #time: instead of magic words. I've fixed Template:FWOTD tomorrow so it would show tomorrow's FWOTD- if there was one. Chuck Entz (talk) 06:20, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! And yes, you've noticed that I tend to wait until the last moment to set FWOTDs. It's a bad habit, but I'm always hoping for something brilliant to be nominated. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:46, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Aha, thank you! Are the workings of  documented anywhere (presumably on mediawiki-wiki)? - -sche (discuss) 06:56, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, here, which is linked to from the magic words page you linked to above. When I looked at the code in timestamp, I saw it used there, so I knew we had the extension installed. Chuck Entz (talk) 07:29, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Not sure why, but your fix didn't work... an anon went and created the next FWOTD before I got a chance to (Special:Contributions/101.109.32.230). I'm still pretty perturbed by how easily anons can edit stuff that ends up on our front page — luckily this one isn't a vandal. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:57, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry for the late response. I believe the reason that edit wasn't stopped is that the protected page we're using (and even the main page, if we moved the code and protection back to it) loads the upcoming FWOTD and then cascades protection down onto it. If the FWOTD doesn't exist (if no November 7th FWOTD has been created yet), the code can't load it and hence can't protect it. - -sche (discuss) 16:34, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, that's pretty screwy. Any ideas? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 19:00, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It's probably like -sche described. Not sure how to avoid it; perhaps we should make the template load missing FWOTDs from the FWOTD of the corresponding day in 2013. — Ungoliant (falai) 19:08, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's probably a good idea anyway, as a failsafe. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 19:22, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

RTL or LTR marks
Hi, what is the best way to see these marks? The diff does not show them. I'm sure they were added by copy and paste, but how does one copy/paste without adding these marks? --Panda10 (talk) 22:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't know how to avoid copying them when copying text, but one can delete them after pasting text by using the delete key on the places where one "knows" they're hiding, either from experience (e.g., I know Google Books uses them before and sometimes after authors' names) or — I use a Firefox extension that lets me highlight text and then "identify characters", showing the Unicode values and names of each character and revealing any hidden marks like those; Chrome probably has a similar extension. Obviously, it's inconvenient to check any and every text one pastes, so I wouldn't worry about doing that: it's easy enough to do periodic AutoWikiBrowser runs to eliminate them from a database-dump list of all pages that use them. Ideally we would resurrect the AutoFormat bot and it could probably remove the marks automatically.
 * PS there's a (RTL-mark-free) arrow → in the "Miscellaneous" field of the "Edittools" below the edit window when you edit a page.
 * - -sche (discuss) 03:11, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. --Panda10 (talk) 12:34, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Nasioi
How many genders does Nasioi have? -- Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 22:18, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Technically maybe no genders, although it has a lot of noun classes. Poking around, I see that John McWhorter claims in two different books that it has "a hundred" or "two hundred genders", but he is apparently oversimplifying/mislabelling a system of noun classes. (In fairness, Ranko Matasović, in Gender in Indo-European, while mentioning various non-IE languages for comparison, says "languages such as Nasioi (of southern Bougainville) have a nominal classification category which is intermediate between a true gender system and" a noun-class system. And what's the difference to a layman?) Nasioi attaches enclitics to adjuncts in a sentence, based on the class and enclitic of the head noun, and these classes are very specific, e.g. raampu "tens of sago shingles", ruʡ "fluid", ruta "eye", va "house", vari "tree", vo "mother and children" (per William Foley, The Papuan Languages of New Guinea, saying Hurd 1977 has a comprehensive list). - -sche (discuss) 03:24, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Noun classes are genders. This sounds significantly different from that, though, whereas Bantu noun classes function remarkably similarly to SAE genders (although SAE doesn't make verbs agree for gender as well). —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:26, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Conceptually, most of the time. But certainly the works above make a distinction, at least on the level of terminology. Probably "gender" is more likely to be used when there are only a few classes. - -sche (discuss) 22:16, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

gender
Hi -sche, thanks for your attention to this page. Rather than go back and forth with edits to the page, I wanted to bring up a couple of points here…I'm happy with "now sometimes proscribed" (though personally I still think that's giving too much ground, especially outside the US), but I really don't think citations support an "informal" tag. It's used in all kinds of formal English. The only reason I think this is so important in this case is that – the idea that this is "informal" usage is put forward as a matter of assertion by certain sides of the debate; it can't be justified historically and I'm doubtful it can be justified now. I'd also ask you to reconsider the Guardian quote that you removed, which I think is pretty clearly talking about "men" and "women" as separate classes of people, not as different social constructs.

Part of the problem, maybe, is that any use of the "sex" meaning is now inevitably influenced by the "social construct" meaning, so that assigning citations to one definition or the other is quite hard – in many people's heads the word probably exists in a vague superposition between the two. I'm just looking at the OED's entry, and under the "males or females viewed as a group; sex" definition, they add the following note: "Originally extended from the grammatical use at sense 1  (sometimes humorously), as also in Anglo-Norman and Old French. In the 20th cent., as sex came increasingly to mean sexual intercourse (see sex n.1 4b), gender began to replace it (in early use euphemistically) as the usual word for the biological grouping of males and females. It is now often merged with or coloured by sense 3b." Which sums up the difficulty, I guess, although their own entry has no problem putting citations of the "both genders" type under the "sex" definition. Any thoughts? Ƿidsiþ 13:21, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your edits to the entry, especially adding the missing electrical sense. (Does one also speak of the "sex" of plugs as well as the "gender"? I see one book saying "For every cable connection, the cables that plug into a connector must be of the opposite sex." But it's hard to find any more because the other meanings are so common, hah.)
 * Re the "informal" tag, you're right that it wasn't informal historically; the usage notes touch on that. Perhaps "now chiefly informal and sometimes proscribed"? Or I guess just "now sometimes proscribed" would work, inasmuch as people would probably realize that formal works would not be likely to use proscribed words/senses. As you note, uses of "gender" to mean "sex" are usually ambiguous now, because the other reading is usually also possible.
 * In my view, the Guardian citation more likely refers to social categories, but is ambiguous in any case. If I say I think reviewers of Sherlock are judging Vinette Robinson based only on looks and not acting, someone might say: "well, Rupert Graves faces the same problem, I think both genders are judged on looks." And if I say I think reviewers of #Hashtag are judging Jen Richards only on looks, the same person might say: "but Ryan Crice is judged the same way: again, both genders are judged on looks." Occam's razor suggests the person means "gender" the same way each time, and the second example makes clear that they're talking about the visible social categories of 'men' and 'women' to which people belong based on how they live their lives, present themselves, etc, and not the genital/gonadal/chromosomal/etc ('sex') categories. (If the speaker meant "both sexes", the second sentence wouldn't make sense, since it's my understanding that the actress Jen Richards and the actor Ryan Circe are of the same sex.)
 * Maybe the "biological category" and "social category" senses should be subsenses of a broad sense to the effect of "a category such as 'male' or 'female'" (", to which organisms belong based on biological or social factors]"?), paralleling how the grammatical senses were made into subsenses...? Then ambiguous citations — and pre-1900s ones! — could go under than broad sense. When writing the sense, we would need to keep in mind that there are works that use this word in talking about real and fictional species with more than two genders/sexes and societies with more than two genders.
 * - -sche (discuss) 06:52, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * - -sche (discuss) 06:52, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

North American native languages project
At this page is information about a native language preservation project based at the computer science department at Southern Oregon University. Have you heard of them?

One of their projects involves dictionary software. I wonder whether there is any kind of cooperation that makes sense with respect to:
 * 1) a smooth interface between their software and ours (both ways)
 * 2) getting content from projects associated with them
 * 3) using their software to encourage users to create specialized glossaries from our content.

- DCDuring TALK 12:17, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

 * I was not aware of that site; thanks for linking it. (I have seen a few similar sites run by other universities.) They say their project "provides web-based export of information", but I don't know how they / the dictionary-authors who are using their format would feel about letting us import their content (which would release it under our licence). They might be interested in importing our data into their format, since they could do so for free as long as they attributed us per our licence, but there are not many North American languages that we document more extensively than other online (single-language) dictionaries, e.g. our coverage of Cheyenne is tiny compared to the online Cheyenne Dictionary. - -sche (discuss) 02:09, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Willingness to share depends on attitude and situation. Death, retirement, loss of funding, etc might cause some of these databases to become available. Facilitating export to their format might yield future benefit in the form of increased willingness of dictionary makers to let us have their data when the time comes. DCDuring TALK 12:36, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Verb form of "king" at article on "kings"
I agree that there was already a definition of the verb on the page for king, but shouldn't the page for kings have information that the word "kings" is the third-person singular simple present form of the word "king" ? The lack of any mention of the verb form was why I put the verb in at "kings". Is this kind of back pointer common for verbs? I know the back pointer is there for nouns. ie: "plural of king" Bcent1234 (talk) 21:16, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

 * You put the definition of the noun "kinging" ("the action of promoting...") into the verb [[kings]] and used as if [[kings]] were a lemma, which was incorrect on a number of levels. If you look at an entry for any third-person verb form, e.g. looks, you can see how they are formatted:  # , like so. :) Incidentally, I'm not convinced "(poker slang) a pair of kings" is really a sense of "kings" distinct from "plural of king"... - -sche (discuss) 22:59, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * By the logic for inclusion that we follow. Because one could be confused as whether kings in poker meant "2, 3, 4 kings", we would include it. DCDuring TALK 10:10, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * But is it really limited to two kings? Wouldn't you say "there were kings and aces scattered around the room" if poker players threw a couple of packs of cards in a fit of rage? How is this different from defining "rackets" as "(tennis slang) a pair of rackets, or (doubles tennis slang) a foursome of rackets" because that's how many rackets tennis is played with? - -sche (discuss) 19:27, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You could be right. It's just a matter of fact. Unfortunately (?) I don't spend much time playing poker or watching/listening to others playing poker. DCDuring TALK 19:45, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * In poker, out of the final five-card hand, if you say you have "kings" that means you have a pair of kings and not more than that. If you have three kings, you would say you have "trip kings", or if you have four, "quad kings". It's of course not limited to kings and applies to all cards. And of course if someone dropped the deck, you can still say "there are aces and kings scattered on the floor", because having a poker-specific sense doesn not imply that all other senses suddenly don't exist. Having said that, I still don't think we necessarily need to have this sense. --WikiTiki89 19:53, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Zigeuner
You said to leave a post on your talk page about the Zigeuner entry, but I just started and want to follow Wiktionary recommendations, so we should talk about this in the [|Tea Room]

Dzungalo77 (talk) 21:38, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Proto-Nawiki
Hi, Could you please add a Proto-Nawiki language code, perhaps , which is based on PNwk from this paper. Thanks. Pinging as well. --Victar (talk) 16:30, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Also related, I have a few Arawak family languages that need codes as well. Thanks! --Victar (talk) 18:25, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yumana:
 * Mariaté:
 * Wainumá:
 * → Wainumá-Mariaté:
 * Wiriná:
 * Guinau:
 * Marawá:
 * As I told you,  will be necessary. Also, we've been discussing some of those languages already (search for their name at WT:RFM). Specifically, I remember being unsure about whether Wainumá and Mariaté are actually separate languages, and I think -sche may have added notes about some of the others. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 21:51, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * No need for nasty "I told you"s. You said  was necessary if NWK is of my own invention. As I stated above, it is not. If Wainumá and Mariaté are considered one in the same, that's fine, but I'm still lacking a code regardless. --Victar (talk) 22:20, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't intend that to be nasty. I suppose I was unclear earlier; we are trying to make codes that complement ISO standards, rather than conflict with them. It's not about who made it up, but simply that it's not in an ISO standard. And I don't know enough and haven't done the research to judge whether those should be merged or separated; I would trust your judgement either way, but I wanted to bring up the issue. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 22:25, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks a ton for the explanation. I didn't realize that ISO was the only excepted source for new un-hyphenated codes. It makes sense though; cuts down on arguments and possible future conflicts.
 * I think quite a few indigenous American languages are actually dialects on one another, but because they have more research, ISO assigns them separate codes. I figured since these are just hyphenated codes anyway, it doesn't much matter. Either way, I just need some way to add them. --Victar (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I've added Nawiki as a family and Proto-Nawiki as a language, with the code as above (hopefully I did it all correctly). We'll have to populate the family; which codes ought to be in Nawiki? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 22:34, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! Proto-Nawiki corresponds to the parent of Western Nawiki and Eastern Nawiki on Wikipedia, so the descendant codes would be:,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,  , along with the propossed  ,   and  . --Victar (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * could you add Proto-Newiki as an alternative name? --Victar (talk) 22:17, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I added the alternative name for the family and the protolanguage, and added the family to all the already existing codes. I haven't created the new codes you requested yet because I'm waiting on -sche's input. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:00, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You rock! Thanks once again. --Victar (talk) 00:07, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * if you could, I also have another related proto language, proto-Piro-Apurinã. I figure if I'm reconstructing them for PAwk, I might as well be creating entries for proto-Piro-Apurinã as well. I've also seen is called proto-Apurinã-Piro-Iñapari and proto-Purus in one case, but proto-Piro-Apurinã is most common.  would be perfect. Derived languages code would be ,  ,   and  . --Victar (talk) 19:42, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I can't find linguistic works with much to say about Mariaté and Wainumá (Wai, Waima, Wainumi, Wainambí, Waiwana, Waipi, Yanuma) beyond that they exist; native-languages.org has short wordlists which are quite similar. Do we want to take a conservative approach and give each its own code as we often do, or are we confident enough that WP is right to group them?
 * My preference is to keep them separated, but I don't have a strong opinion. --Victar (talk) 07:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Marawá needs to be distinguished from Marawán. And do we want to give it, Guinau, and "Baré" (a terribly ambiguous name) three codes, or merge them as Barawana, as Aikhenvald suggests?
 * It's quite annoying that they're so similarly named, but they are indeed two separate languages: mara1408, mara1409.
 * Guinau and Baré are actually quite different in many ways, from what I've seen. --Victar (talk) 07:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I thought Uirina had already been discussed somewhere, but [after searching] I guess not (must have been a language with a similar name). - -sche (discuss) 05:09, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've added Yumana. - -sche (discuss) 05:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Victar (talk) 07:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * What code did you use, because the proposed  didn't work? --Victar (talk) 07:21, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I've added Wainumá as awd-wai, which was suggested on WT:RFM and which is more clearly distinguished from sai-wnm (Wanham) — it's a small thing, but it seems better not to have a sai- ("South American languages") code and an awd- (South American "Arawakan languages") code be identical except in their potentially mentally-interchangeable prefixes. And I've added Mariaté as awd-mrt, as proposed here, rather than -mar (as proposed on RFM), to better distinguish it from sai-mar. Yumana was added as awd-yum (as proposed on WT:RFM). I added Guinau and noticed we already had a word in it, and a code for Bare despite that term (Bare) 's ambiguousness. - -sche (discuss) 04:37, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

espan
Hello, do you happen to know whether is also a descendant of the Munsee word (or whether a related language is more probable or whatever else)? Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:19, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I can't find any references that say anything explicit about the Swedish term (you've outdone me by just finding so many citations of it! excellent work!), but the word is clearly Algonquian, and based on where the Swedish settlements in America were it 's most plausible that it came from Munsee, Unami or possibly Nanticoke. Of those, Nanticoke echsup and the (clearly unrelated) Unami nahënëm are phonologically implausible, but Munsee é·span (where é· is /ɛː/) is a great fit. Combined with the sure derivation of the very similar Jersey Dutch word from Munsee, I'd say the Swedish word is from Munsee, or if one wanted to be conservative, "From an Eastern Algonquian language (from, most likely Munsee é·span." - -sche (discuss) 22:42, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll add the more conservative version to be on the safe side. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 13:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Kurze Anfrage
Tagchen [tʰa̝x̠ʝɪ̈n] - Du bist doch in der weiten Bücherei deutscher Regionalismen gut rumgekommen. Ich bin neulich an 'ner Studie vorbeigekommen, die erwähnte, dass /ɛː/ in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern als Merkmal eines fremdsprachlichen (plattdeutschen) Akzentes empfunden wird und nur die Aussprache von ⟨Ä⟩ als /eː/ als korrekt empfunden wird. Ich weiß nur leider nicht mehr, welche es war. Es wahr wohl Dahl 1974, der norddeutsche Sprachatlas oder diese andere Arbeit über Sprache in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern aus den 70ern, die mir einfach nicht mehr einfällt. Du weißt nicht zufällig, wo man dieses Zitat findet oder wo man diese Arbeiten einsehen kann oder wenigstens, wer die Arbeit geschrieben hat, die nicht Dahl ist? Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 21:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Illion numbers
You can see the larger number to Wiktionary.

Millillion - 10^3003

Dumillillion - 10^6003

Myrillion - 10^30003

Micrillion - 10^3000003

Nanillion - 10^3000000003

Picillion - 10^3000000000003

Femtillion - 10^3000000000000003

Attillion - 10^30000000000000000003

Zeptillion - 10^3000000000000000000003

Yoctillion - 10^3000000000000000000000003

Xonillion - 10^3000000000000000000000000003

Cyrus noto3at bulaga (talk) 10:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

A proposal on splitting Monguor into Mangghuer and Mongghul
Hey, a proposal I've made at Requests_for_moves,_mergers_and_splits seems to be stuck for a long time now, could you perhaps take a look at it, share your thoughts and vote? Crom daba (talk) 00:35, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

//NOTE: This message was crossposted to multiple talk pages. Crom daba (talk) 00:35, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Salar
Hey, I see you've made a Salar entry in Arabic script, do you have any resources on the orthography? I'm making some Proto-Mongolic entries and it will feature in descendants. Crom daba (talk) 01:51, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

title: User talk:-sche/Archive/2016


text: Category:en:Census-designated places in Texas, USA

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text: Category:en:Unincorporated communities in Michigan, USA


text:
dözalan

Verb

 * 1)  to drizzle

title: dözalan


text:
dòzelpòan

Noun

 * 1)  Adam's apple

title: dòzelpòan


text:
User talk:-sche/Archive/2017

Finno-Ugric to Uralic
Note that a bunch of module errors have been generated as a result. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:40, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Coorne citation
Please explain why you removed the OED Coorne citation. Note in particular that though it gives no actual quotation, it explicitly supplies the necessary citation. JonRichfield (talk) 12:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * That would be the type of citation that Wikipedia requires, but not the type that Wiktionary requires. It's one thing to list the OED as a source for more information in a separate section, but it's not a good idea to use an inline citation as if that verified the existence of the word to Wiktionary standards (we have an entire appendix of dictionary-only terms that can't be regular entries). If the OED gives examples of use, cite the usage in the original sources. See WT:CFI for details. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:52, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Chuck Entz thank you. I followed some of your refs. Would you care to comment on the looseness (by current standards) of earlier English spelling? Eg, Tyndale's bible had at least three spellings for corn, two of which occur in the quote I subsequently supplied. Coorne itself is labelled (correctly IMO) as obsolete in English. JonRichfield (talk) 19:31, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a definite problem, because we treat Early Modern English as English, and that means 3 cites/quotes for verification. Wiktionary is structured around precise spellings, so coorn and coorne have to be verified separately. Lemmas, as our stand-in for the term as a whole, can be verified by inflected forms- so a quote for corns will verify our entry for corn- but these are alternative forms. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:54, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Chuck Entz I had thought of that independently, but as it happens Tyndale not only has been republished in editions by various editors who retained his spellings (which I have verified as accurate by looking very carefully at an image of the original) but also has been quoted more or less correctly (though at least one misquoted "corn" as "corne", but retained "coorne" correctly). Now, corn/corne does not look like much of a problem for most readers, in searching for corne in WKt the reader might well notice "corn" and make the connection, and besides spelling in those days (16th c and earlier) was pretty arbitrary (GBS would have LOVED it). But it is perfectly possible for someone reading coorne out of context, or in a different context, to read "coorne" and wonder what the bleep it meant ("coronet" for goodness' sake!!!) without making the corn connection. For such a reader that is IMO a definite justification for such an entry whether it is a ghost word or not. Furthermore, check the 15th century entry I have just added to the Dutch; in those days, English being what it was, it is quite conceivable that the form 'coorne' from the Dutch was known in southern England; and don't forget that the rejected OED entry, though it does not supply sources for that one, does give it for a variation of kernel, coornel, which should count as being as much of a cite as any other book, even if not as a satisfactory dictionary entry. (Other books also have their ghost words :D ) JonRichfield (talk) 11:28, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
A language code was adding in this. Is it correct? I also wonder if the rest of the etymology is correct, after having looked at the Wikipedia article and a couple of its sources. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 01:48, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Check Chaubunagungamaug, where I haven't tampered with the etym. — AWESOME meeos ！ *  ([nʲɪ‿nəʐɨˈmajtʲe sʲʊˈda]) 02:32, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Your involvement is why I noticed it, but isn't really the reason I asked. I noticed your edit when you made it, and made a mental note to ask about it later when I had time and when -sche seemed to have time to be asked. Discussing your edits jogged my memory, so I posted this today. My question still remains, though Angr's involvement does ease my concerns a bit. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

 * The base name is generally agreed to ultimately be Nipmuck. I consider it suboptimal to use the same code both in situations like this, where the language being referred to or speculated about is identifiable as the language of the Nipmucks, and also when dealing with the wordlist that is known by the obvious placeholder name "Loup A" that is merely assumed to be the same language. Nonetheless, sources do treat them the same, to such an extent that the Grammar of the Nipmuck Language identifies itself as "a grammatical sketch of Loup A". (Maybe I'll give Nipmuck an etymology-only code like New Latin, though. Or we could change the canonical name of Loup A.)
 * Thanks for adding the pronunciation, Awesomemeeos.
 * I've added some references explaining that the longer name is a 1920s hoax. - -sche (discuss) 03:34, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * It reminds me of the first assignment in the American Indian Languages class I took at UCLA thirty years ago: we were asked to look up the origin of a list of US place names (in books- the World Wide Web hadn't been invented yet). It was eye-opening how much bogus information there was in respectable references.
 * By the way, I added an archive link to the Webster Lake Association website cite, since the site is now apparently defunct. Thanks, -sche! Chuck Entz (talk) 04:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I copied that one over from Wikipedia and, as you see, ultimately removed it as unnecessary/redundant. - -sche (discuss) 16:29, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Huh?
I think you made a mistake here? You removed a bunch of language codes. —CodeCat 01:24, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Yes; I've reverted myself except for the one change I was trying to make, to fix Chono's code. - -sche (discuss) 01:30, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Intersection-al and inter-sectional
Is it perhaps wise to divide intersectional into Etymology 1 and Etymology 2? The dominant sense today relates to, which seems to have been coined by Kimberlé Williams Crenshaw in or about 1989. But there is also a literature on inter-sectional politics during the American Civil War, and I've seen mention (in twentieth century texts) that this notion of relationships across "sections" was popular among eighteenth- or nineteenth-century American thinkers – maybe Federalists? (See the two different noun senses at .)

In Google Books, before 1989 intersectional mainly seems refer to scientific meetings or sports tournaments, or to the Civil War-era intersectionalism. After 1989, it seems to refer mainly to (theories or treatments of) gender, race, discrimination, etc.

Any road, do you think it is worthwhile to think about dividing the word into senses with different etymologies? or is it fine as-is? Cnilep (talk) 00:52, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

 * The page could certainly be split that way. I only didn't make the effort doing that at the time because the two etymologies are pretty similar and ultimately both break down to the same inter- section -al. - -sche (discuss) 02:41, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Maybe I'll think more about it if I have some free time in the future. Thanks, Cnilep (talk) 03:42, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

mombie
Hope this is where you wanted me to reply/discuss this.

Yes, I do adamantly feel the rollback is in error. Please kindly revert to my 4-10 updated mombie definition. There is currently no proper usage cited. Defined as a 'mombie' (even though male) myself I understand what it means fully. My definition had rave reviews by many mombie parents. The proper usage is as stated. This word is not always derogatory. The proper definition is becoming more popular and should be listed first. 9/10 actual mombies agree. Parenting is not easy by any means. Mombies give their all and then some. There needs to be a definition listed that is non-derogatory as well as the derogatory usage.

Let's get the accurate proper use of the word back online for all, please. It would mean a lot to myself and 'mombies' around the world. Thank you very much for your time.

Joshua Crum (talk) 14:41, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * First of all, don't add it back without discussion first. It wasn't reverted by mistake. Your definition obviously can't stand even if the non-derogatory sense is fine; if you look elsewhere in the dictionary, you will see that definitions are never self-aggrandising paragraph-long spiels. More importantly, though, not just any definition can be included. Only those that pass WT:ATTEST are allowed in English. Even if you personally use a word every day, if it hasn't entered into the popular lexicon of durably archived English, we can't accept it here. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 17:31, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

 * The long, aggrandizing paragraph was over the top, but I appreciate the point that usage is not always derogatory; some books and other uses I see are just referring to the sleep-deprivation-induced mindlessness you mentioned. I've tried to expand the definition a bit. Let me know if any key elements are still missing. - -sche (discuss) 21:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

das seine - pronunciation
Hi,

One of the Russian opposition journalists said that in "jedem das seine" there is no /z/ sound. While I agree that Russian /z/ is much more voiced than the German, I'd say that the final s in "das" is voiceless but the next "s" is slightly voiced, isn't it? Or is it completely devoiced? What do you think? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:40, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

 * That's an unusual thing for Russian journalists to be discussing! The "s" in "seine" is /z/ in standard German, even after the /s/ of "das". - -sche (discuss) 01:55, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * What? Voicing of /z/ ⟨s⟩ is entirely facultative in every register of German. And progressive devoicing is completely normal. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 12:13, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The canonical sound is /z/, however. Compare for example aussöhnen, which the Duden (and e.g. Viëtor's Deutsches Aussprachewörterbuch) transcribes [ˈaʊ̯szøːnən]; our colleagues at de.Wikt are missing the verb (as are we) but have Aussöhnung [ˈaʊ̯sˌzøːnʊŋ], as well as e.g. es sich [ɛs zɪç]. - -sche (discuss) 18:01, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * But even the section 'Genormte Lautung' (opposed with 'Umgangssprache') in the current Duden Aussprechewörterbuch only says something along the lines of /s/ can also be voiced in these positions (Same goes for vocalisation of /r/.) and then explicitly states that amongst these they pick one, but the others are always an equally standard alternative. I'd prefer if we use our (basically) infinite space to afford some wider precision over a brevity which might accidentally turn us non‐descriptivist. Also, I feel a bit impolite for barging into your talk page, sorry, but it's on my watchlist for some reason, and with German there is a lot of prescriptivist spirit floating around the Wiki projects. I also use the [sz] pronunciaton in these cases and I'm all for differentiating /ß/ from /s/, but we shouldn't make it wrongly sound like it's the one right way. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 10:42, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Spellings in dialectal categories
(This is not another dispute on which English forms deserve lemma.)

I’ve noticed that there are quite a few alternative spellings which are placed in the same category as regionalisms. A few examples include Euroskeptic, favor, gigametre and humourless, amongst others. Considering that we have categories for this purpose, e.g. category:Canadian English forms, all that it does is clutter. As well, template:standard spelling of appears to be using the wrong categories.

Is there any chance that we can fix up this? ( can also weigh in, since he seems familiar with this kind of thing.) — (((Romanophile))) ♞ (contributions) 04:38, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Switching from "British" to "British spelling" seems to bring about correct categorization, both in  and in  (see my edits to gigametre), but going through all the entries in the regionalism categories and making sure they use the right labels will take a fair bit of work. I'm sorry for this delayed and probably disappointing response. I may try going through the dialect categories and checking labels with AWB sometime.
 * A tangentially related question is whether a word that's limited to, say, Shetland, should use  as some entries do, which puts them into "British English" although the words are not used in all or even most British English varieties. The lack of consistency about whether all entries which are dialectal go into "Category:English dialectal terms" or only some random entries do is also unfortunate.
 * - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Categorizing Categories
Hi -sche, I haven't had a lot of users discussions yet, so if this needs to be at another place or done in a different way - let me know. I created a while ago category:English_false_friends_for_German_speakers. Your bot left a note for clean-up, also a while ago. But I do not really understand, how to add a language category to a category. Can you help? Thx. Hi.ro (talk) 09:35, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure the current name is the best name for the category, but the main issue is that I'm not sure where "false friends" categories like it fit into Wiktionary's system of categories. - -sche (discuss) 03:43, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

hommesse "woman"
I found the very rare French word hommesse, "woman", on the multilingual website: biblehub.com [].
 * Genèse 2:23 French: Martin (1744): - Alors Adam dit : A cette fois celle-ci est os de mes os, et chair de ma chair; on la nommera hommesse, parce qu'elle a été prise de l'homme. -- New International Version: - The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man."

Th noun hommesse is listed on the fr.Wikt under Dérivés "Derived terms" for homme []. Therefore I think the word hommesse "woman" should not be deleted from the English Wiktionary, even if it is very rare. I think that separate Wiktionary pages for hommesse, "woman" ought to be created to show that this word was used in an earlier French translation of the Bible. Cf. German Mann / Manne "man" and Männin --
 * 1 Mose 2:23 German: Luther (1912): Da sprach der Mensch: Das ist doch Bein von meinem Bein und Fleisch von meinem Fleisch; man wird sie Männin heißen, darum daß sie vom Manne genommen ist. [] Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 03:24, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

 * It would be fine to have an entry for it, which could note how rare a bit of wordplay is. But it's downright misleading to list it as a translation in the translations table at woman, which is why I removed it from there. Incidentally, it seems to more often mean something different, along the lines of "effeminate/androgynous man". - -sche (discuss) 03:39, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Nice 'crattage
Great admin work, -sche. So much so, I may have to nom you as our next bureaucrat.

 * Thank you for prompting me to take care of so many of those old RFMs. Do you have aWa enabled? (Can non-admins enable it?) It would be preferable to archive old discussions to talk pages rather than just deleting them. - -sche (discuss) 22:30, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

 * I can't use aWa, no. It's only for autopatrollers and above. I know it is preferable to archive them, but I'm not known to do things the "right way". In fact, I'm no teven checking my spelling, punctuation or signing my posts these days, which really pisses people off.

 * Ah, that's silly, that you can't use it. Oh well! :p - -sche (discuss) 22:50, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Old Northwest
FYI, you just added it to a category that doesn't exist. Will you create the category? Pur ple back pack 89  23:21, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe there is a bot that creates wanted categories that fit naming patterns. I know there is one for POS and derivation categories. - -sche (discuss) 23:37, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Now there's Category:en:Regions of the United States as well as Category:en:Regions of the United States of America... —CodeCat 00:05, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The "cities" and "towns" categories use the full name, so presumably "regions" should, too, at least until we decide on an overarching policy. (A shorter name like just US would be easier to type, but some have felt the full name is more professional.) - -sche (discuss) 00:16, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * There's still a data entry in one of the modules of topic cat somewhere. —CodeCat 00:17, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Good catch (that was my own error and apparently also someone else's, since it was added twice; hah ). Btw, do you know why we have both Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names and Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names old? Does the split serve a purpose or could I merge them, for example at Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Places? - -sche (discuss) 00:20, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it was because I made some changes to the module that someone else didn't like so they forked it? —CodeCat 00:22, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you happen to notice any reason why it would cause errors if I started moving labels from the "old" module into the plain module? I don't; the formatting of the labels looks identical. Do you have a preference for whether they be un-forked at Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Places or at Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names? - -sche (discuss) 00:33, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Just "Places" would make more sense, since that's the new head of the tree. I don't know if the data entry for "Place names" would even belong in there anymore. —CodeCat 00:43, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * OK; I've started centralizing the labels there. I am inclined to leave "place names" as the only label in its module, for a while, while people adjust. - -sche (discuss) 01:51, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, User:Daniel Carrero did that when he created place and wanted to add a gazillion new items. He copied the existing module to Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names old and put his stuff in Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:21, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, my contribution to is very minor. I basically just created a worthless stub template and then  created a full module and made it work. Which is awesome. (I also checked the results and gave feedback while he did the hard work.) You mentioned my contributions in Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Places so I'll reply to that: You're welcome. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 19:48, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You were more influential than you may think: the main reason I chose to do it was to avoid the proliferation of decentralised templates like . — Ungoliant (falai) 20:02, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm happy that you did it. I believe my ability in editing modules at the time was close to 0%, so I created the municipality thing because it was better than nothing. But it's way better to use than decentralised templates like . --Daniel Carrero (talk) 20:14, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I’d like to say that this sort of situation is exactly where I felt that something like would be useful: people adding placenames only need to worry about the correctness of the information they are adding, and let the data module worry about its categorisation.
 * I am the first to admit that it became a kitchen sink, though. — Ungoliant (falai) 20:02, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm hoping to get place name information from Wikidata in the future. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 20:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

United States of America categories
There are name that are just "United States" without "of America": If you can move these and the subcategories, that would be great. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:04, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:History of the United States
 * Category:States of the United States
 * Category:US State Capitals (not sure how you should rename this but the caps are off)
 * Category:en:State Nicknames of the United States (same as above).
 * Category:en:State Nicknames of the United States. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:04, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for finding these. The "state capitals" one has been stagnating at RFC/RFM since 2009, I see! I'm going to go with the suggestion made there of "State capitals of..." [the United States of America]. I wonder what motivated the weird capitalization on it and the nicknames category. It'd be nice if category-redirects would also take any pages put into them and put them into the "main" category, so we could use short forms like "US" when typing the names out in entries, but I guess that's just wishful thinking! - -sche (discuss) 04:23, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. It would be easy (for someone who makes bots) to make a bot to do this. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, Category:Georgia (State). In addition to the caps, "state" means both an independent state (like the republic) and a subdivision of the U.S. On en.wp, we use "(U.S. state)". —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:29, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Shorter category names are much easier to enter. That's my tuppence worth. DonnanZ (talk) 23:58, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with that. How about we create category-redirects at shorter names, maybe systematically replacing "[the] United States of America" with "US". Then we could empty out the redirects periodically by bot. I've created Category:en:Georgia (US) and Category:en:Cities in Georgia (US). By the way, Hotcat is a great help with adding categories without having to spell out their full names. - -sche (discuss) 02:19, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Someday we might decide to make the "US" short forms the main categories,but so far there has been disagreement in the various discussions at WT:RFM and elsewhere whenever this has come up, between those who want short names and those who want "professional" full names on the finished product. - -sche (discuss) 02:22, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I have successfully edited Module:place/data to adapt to your moving Category:US State Capitals to pt:State capitals of the United States of America.--Jusjih (talk) 02:00, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Macrolanguages
I think we need an actual idea of how to approach to handling macrolanguage codes that coexist with codes for the constituent lects. Guaraní has an open RFM on this issue at the moment: the macrolanguage code gn has been used almost entirely, if not entirely, for Paraguayan Guaraní, which has its own code, gug. The RFM drew overwhelming interest and support for a merger (well, overwhelming by our usual standards), but some confusion about which code/name to keep and which to merge. There are other cases, like Kurdish, that I want to bring up at RFM, but first I wanted to get your thoughts on how best to solve these: allow one dialect to take the macrolanguage status, or retire the macrolanguage code altogether? —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

 * If we consider all the dialects of Guaraní to be one language, then it makes sense to merge all the codes into gn (obviously).
 * And if we consider all the dialects of a language to be distinct enough to keep separate, then IMO it's clearer to retire the macrolanguage code, even where one dialect is more prominent than the others ... unless there is a clear tendency for the unmarked language name to refer to that dialect even when other dialects are being talked about. (For example, we merged ekk into et rather than vice versa.)
 * There is only one case that comes to mind where we let a dialect have a macrolanguage code although the situation was arguably not that clear, namely mhr = chm, which is silly because we still call the language "Eastern Mari" ... that should probably be revisited. (Als into sq, although not as clear at ekk into et, is probably fine.)
 * In this case, "Guaraní" does seem to usually be identified with gug (almost certainly helped by the fact that gug has many orders of magnitude more speakers), so it would probably be fine to merge gug into gn even if other dialects are kept separate, especially because we probably want to keep the name as "Guaraní".
 * For Kurdish, it seems like it might make more sense to retire the macrolanguage code, since no one dialect seems to have an overwhelming case for taking it on (Kurmanji has the most speakers, but only 2-3 times as many as Sorani, and Sorani is standard in Iraq), although I only made a brief look into it and could be wrong.
 * Guillermo's comment "[nhd] is similar and very close to [gug] but it's slightly different and always confused with [gug]" actually supports merging those codes, IMO, although he's arguing the opposite. Wikipedia is ambivalent about what should be done with them, and I'm not sure yet either.
 * - -sche (discuss) 04:30, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Todo/Mismatched POS - Head - Verb, Adverb, Adjective
Hey. Could you make this page and similars again? Perhaps an updated list is already somewhere else. In that case, it could probably be deleted. --Celui qui crée ébauches de football anglais (talk) 11:07, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

 * ✅. I'll suggest in the Grease Pit that edit filters could perhaps be used to catch many cases in real-time. - -sche (discuss) 15:50, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

term → m
About. I've been converting to  and adding the language code. Please don't do the opposite. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 20:42, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry; that was because I copied the text from an older revision of the page. - -sche (discuss) 20:44, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 20:47, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * , shouldn't we have a bot doing that? --Victar (talk) 00:24, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Only a human editor can figure out cases where no language code is specified with total accuracy. A bot could probably fix a lot of cases, though, like links to terms in scripts used by only one language, or links to long terms where only one language section exists on the target page, or where a language name immediately precedes the link (maybe a bot even already did some of those? I don't recall)... - -sche (discuss) 00:34, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I seem to recall that at some point used her bot to fix instances of , at least. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:45, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * A bot can convert term to m, and save people that extra second x however many entries. We can also have a bot convert lang to 1, no, for those instances? --Victar (talk) 00:48, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'm pretty sure CodeCat also converted all cases of into . Apparently, all current instances of  don't have a language code. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:53, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. --Victar (talk) 02:15, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

knobkierie
Hi -sche. How can we templatise the last part of that etymology? The code for Khoisan languages has been commented out. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:46, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's been commented out because it's not a genetic family. Wikipedia attributes it specifically to the Nama language, so I've switched it to that. - -sche (discuss) 22:33, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. — Ungoliant (falai) 20:58, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

siccity
The fundamental problem is that siccity has a single definition, but dryness has two definitions. So, if we direct the user to the dryness translations, how will they know which definitions, and thus which translation tables, apply to siccity? There is no means of informing the user in this regard. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:17, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
 * If siccity can be used in either sense (as seems to be the case), then there is no problem; all the senses and translations of dryness are relevant. If siccity were limited to one sense, then the definition could be made adequate by the addition of a, the common means of informing users which senses of another word are meant. (Very rarely — so rarely that it seems to be nonstandard — I have seen people add separate sense lines all saying with different glosses, and separate s, for every sense of  that some other word bar is a synonym of, but that does seem to be nonstandard.) - -sche (discuss) 03:32, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Turkish / Kutayca (happiness)
Do you know what the "Kutayca" translation here is supposed to be? There's a Turkish entry but it doesn't mean happiness. DTLHS (talk) 00:37, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I can find no evidence of a Kutayca language. It seems to be the name of an athlete(?). It was added in diff by an IP from Turkey; I would guess it's vandalism. - -sche (discuss) 00:48, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. DTLHS (talk) 00:54, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

He's at it again
Category:en:United States county index. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:55, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

The crime would appear to be not in having the category, but in populating it. Therefore it has a token population, so it doesn't register as an empty category, until attitudes change. DonnanZ (talk) 13:42, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It was deleted and you recreated it. Why? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:22, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

The category still worked and was still very useful despite its deletion, until Koavf removed all the entries under the pretext "remove redlinks". Because of that I decided to reopen the category with a token number of entries, and Koavf has only himself to blame for that. Furthermore, due to continued interference by that user, no further county entries are planned at the moment. DonnanZ (talk) 09:00, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
 * We can't use deleted categories. If a category is deleted, then it is removed from the entries. No one can oblige you to do any work here, so if you want to not make entries, that's totally up to you but you also can't expect that anyone will accept your deliberately malformed edits as the only way you will add to the dictionary. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:43, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

There is no need for me to respond to that. I am waiting for a reply from -sche. DonnanZ (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Cat
@-sche Have been perusing this etymology again; and would have to state that my thanks was for your edit as opposed to that of Huehnergard. Although I do not know him, his idea comes over as irrational: how far back does he think Proto-Germanic began; does he think that it is older than the origins of Proto-Celtic? You know the answer to these questions; but apart from in Latvian I know of no significant morphological divergent from the source lexeme for cat in any European language. What did they name the wild cats in Scotland? However, I will try to check that of Breton, whose natives fled there from Cornwall in the sixth century, before any Germanic influence had time to be absorbed. So far, all the Celtic forms are from the same pre-historic source, but we cannot be sure of that source: it was certainly older than Proto-Germanic! The Basque forms are probably borrowed, unless cats are and always were native there. My equally invalid assumption was that their ultimate root was the pre-historic *CAD (sharp), because of their claws and teeth. "Cad" was the pre-historic name for the River Plym, and it signified "sharp flowing" at that time! I shall try more research! Kind Regards. Andrew H. Gray 07:35, 15 July 2017 (UTC)Andrew

Checkuser
Do you want to be one? I reckon you're pretty well trusted in the community, besides being established. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:15, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the confidence in me that you express, but I don't want to be a CheckUser. I also don't know that I would meet the spirit of the policy: I am absent from the site for months at a time, during which time there would effectively be only one CheckUser. (Whereas, when I'm absent as an admin, there are always other admins around.)
 * Perhaps we should ask a global checkuser to look at en.Wikt's checkuser log and tell us how often we actually use that mop, to get a sense of how much we actually need a local checkuser.
 * - -sche (discuss) 06:55, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I am strongly of the opinion that having a local checkuser is good. (I think having two is actually unnecessary, hence me not minding if one is absent now and again). I simply would not want to bother making a formal request to the stewards over a local issue that they would not immediately understand. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 07:53, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:-sche/Archive/2017


text:
draat

Etymology
From, from , from. Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1)  string, thread

title: draat


text:
drailöopar

Noun

 * 1)  clover

title: drailöopar


text: Category:cim:Trifolieae tribe plants

title: Category:cim:Trifolieae tribe plants


text: Category:cim:Legumes

title: Category:cim:Legumes


text:
dhati

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) being, essence
 * 2) free will

title: dhati


text:
spherical nucleic acid

Noun

 * 1) A spheroidal compound composed of a central spherical scaffold upon which nucleic acid strands are attached, like hair on a ball.

Derived terms

 * abbreviation

title: spherical nucleic acid


text:
User:Urszag/vowel-length

Questionable vowel lengths:
 * limma: long or short? From a Greek diphthong, but before a geminate.
 * Acmonia: why long o when Greek Ἀκμονία has short?
 * Triocala: why long o when Greek Τριόκαλα (per Gaffiot) has short?
 * Saguntum: why short u when Greek Σάγουντον has a diphthong? Is the Latin really from the Greek form?
 * Musecros: Why short u when the declension indicates a form taken from Greek?
 * acacia: middle a is given as long in Latin, but short in Greek. L&S gives ăcācĭa, but Gaffiot gives ăcăcĭa.
 * marum: is the Greek source word long or short a? Acute or cirumflex on the first syllable?

 * pēdīculō, pēdīculus, etc: long or short i? e depends on louse or foot?

Final -ia:
 * angaria: Why short i when Greek "ἀγγαρεία" has a diphthong? L&S references "ἀγγαρία" instead.
 * Alyzia
 * aristolochia: Why short i when Greek "ἀριστολόχεια" has a diphthong? L&S references "ἀριστολοχία" instead.

title: User:Urszag/vowel-length


text:
沒後

Noun

 * 1)  end

title: 沒後


text:
spinal muscular atrophy

Noun

 * 1) A neuromuscular disorder that results in the loss of motor neurons and progressive muscle wasting.

Hyponyms

 * SMA0
 * SMA1
 * SMA2
 * SMA3
 * SMA4

Derived terms

 * abbreviation
 * SMAs
 * SMA0
 * SMA1
 * SMA2
 * SMA3
 * SMA4

Related terms

 * SMAs

title: spinal muscular atrophy


text:
spinal muscular atrophies

Hyponyms

 * SMA
 * SMA0
 * SMA1
 * SMA2
 * SMA3
 * SMA4

Derived terms

 * abbreviation

Noun

 * 1)  SMA

title: spinal muscular atrophies


text:
章段

Noun

 * 1) paragraph
 * 2) chapter; section

title: 章段


text: SMAs

title: SMAs


text: zhāngduàn

title: zhāngduàn


text:
Grisperl

Noun

 * 1)  a skinny, weak person

title: Grisperl


text:
supplementary motor area

Noun

 * 1)  A part of the primate cerebral cortex that contributes to the control of movement, located on the midline surface of the brain hemisphere anterior to the primary motor cortex leg representation.

title: supplementary motor area


text:
孤本

Noun

 * 1) only existing edition

title: 孤本


text: gūběn

title: gūběn


text:
otherwards

Etymology

 * compare.

Adverb

 * 1) Towards an other or another direction.

title: otherwards


text:
Talk:otherwards

Error for "other words"
"In otherwards" also exists as an error, especially by NNES, for "in other words". I am unsure whether to list this here, at in otherwards, or nowhere. (Compare Category:Non-native speakers' English.) - -sche (discuss) 07:29, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * 1979, United States. Congress. House. Select Committee on Assassinations, Hearings, Reports and Prints of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, page 342:
 * In otherwards, I can tell you I was on, in other words, between Jeff City and the City. I can show you where maybe I made an illegal entry into a store. You know, in otherwards if I can't prove that I was between Jeff City and this town within six ...
 * 1985, India Textiles Committee, Consumer Purchases of Textiles, page 26:
 * In otherwards, the balance 99.21 per cent of the people did make some purchases of textiles during the year under consideration.
 * 1995, B. G. Demczyk, Evolution of thin film and surface structure and morphology: symposium held November 28-December 2, 1994, Boston, Massachusetts, U.S.A., page 374:
 * Here we shall be concerned with Lʹ≤L, in otherwards, the coherence length is less than the sample size, as this is most often the case for electron or X-ray diffraction.

title: Talk:otherwards


text: 鉆研

title: 鉆研


text:
otherwhat

Pronoun

 * 1)  Something else; (some) other thing;.
 * 2) * 1901 (edition), William Shakespeare, Horace Howard Furness, A New Variorum of Shakespeare, page 366:
 * I will go now to speak with Catella and see how she will take it; for hitherto Lattanzio hath gotten none but general replies from her; and for the rest God shall aid me, who knoweth my heart and knoweth that I strive for no otherwhat than to ...
 * 1) * 1918, Giovanni Boccaccio (original author), Tales from Boccaccio (translated), page 59:
 * The lady gave ear to him with a patient mind nor answered otherwhat than, 'My lord, study to content thyself and to satisfy thy pleasure and have no thought of me, for that nothing is dear to me save in so much as I see it please thee.'
 * 1) * 1918, Giovanni Boccaccio (original author), Tales from Boccaccio (translated), page 59:
 * The lady gave ear to him with a patient mind nor answered otherwhat than, 'My lord, study to content thyself and to satisfy thy pleasure and have no thought of me, for that nothing is dear to me save in so much as I see it please thee.'

title: otherwhat


text:
ájurvédský

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Ayurvedic

title: ájurvédský


text:
ajurvédský

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Ayurvedic

title: ajurvédský


text:
Module:sw-IPA/documentation

This module should NOT be used in its present state. It is unfinished and contains errors.

title: Module:sw-IPA/documentation


text:
otherwhen

Noun

 * 1)  Other time (sometime else).

Adverb

 * 1)  Elsewhen, sometime or somewhen else, another time.

title: otherwhen


text: otherwhens

title: otherwhens


text:
rũbutu

Pronunciation

Noun

 * 1) eyebrow

title: rũbutu


text: kānběn

title: kānběn


text:
刪簡

Verb

 * 1) to simplify; to abridge

title: 刪簡


text: 删简

title: 删简


text: shānjiǎn

title: shānjiǎn


text: héshíyí

title: héshíyí


text: bùhéshíyí

title: bùhéshíyí


text:
جحش

Noun

 * 1) young donkey
 * 2)  trestle, horse

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) young donkey
 * 2) idiot, jackass

title: جحش


text: shēnshēnxuézǐ

title: shēnshēnxuézǐ


text: xīnxīnxuézǐ

title: xīnxīnxuézǐ


text: Thesaurus:學子

title: Thesaurus:學子


text:
佚失

Verb

 * 1) to scatter and disappear; to be lost; to be missing

title: 佚失


text:
Category talk:Tibeto-Burman languages

RFM discussion: July 2019

 * See Wiktionary talk:Language treatment/Discussions.

title: Category talk:Tibeto-Burman languages


text:
Category talk:Sino-Tibetan languages

RFM discussion: July 2019

 * See Wiktionary talk:Language treatment/Discussions.

title: Category talk:Sino-Tibetan languages


text: housewifry

title: housewifry


text:
Rote Grütze

Etymology
+

Noun

 * 1) red fruit jelly, red fruit pudding (a fruit pudding containing chunks of red fruits)

title: Rote Grütze


text: Category:enm:Cities in Palestine

title: Category:enm:Cities in Palestine


text: Category:enm:Palestine

title: Category:enm:Palestine


text: Category:enm:Capital cities

title: Category:enm:Capital cities


text: Category:en:Regions of New Zealand

title: Category:en:Regions of New Zealand


text: Category:fr:Cities in England

title: Category:fr:Cities in England


text:
mislest

Etymology
Apparently an alteration of, after.

Verb

 * 1)  To molest, mistreat.

title: mislest


text: Category:fr:Cities in the United Kingdom


text:
mũcibi

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Pronunciation

 * Yukawa (1981, 1985) classifies this term into groups, both of which include, (pl. ), , ,  (pl. ), , , , , , etc. in common.

Noun

 * 1) belt

title: mũcibi


text:
mũthee

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Pronunciation

 * Yukawa (1981, 1985) classifies this term into groups, both of which include, , (pl. ), ,  (pl. ), , , , , , etc. in common.

Noun

 * 1) old man

title: mũthee


text:
著錄

Verb

 * 1)  to put down in writing; to record
 * 2)  to analyze, select and record the content and format of relevant texts when compiling a catalogue

title: 著錄


text: 著录

title: 著录


text:
選錄

Verb

 * 1) to select and include

title: 選錄


text: 选录

title: 选录


text: xuǎnlù

title: xuǎnlù


text:
序錄

Verb

 * 1)  to select and include in succession
 * 2)  to record; to take down in writing

Noun

 * 1) order and explanation of a title catalogue

title: 序錄


text: 序录

title: 序录


text: xùlù

title: xùlù


text:
經籍志

Noun

 * 1)  monograph on bibliography ; bibliographic treatise

title: 經籍志


text: 经籍志

title: 经籍志


text: jīngjízhì

title: jīngjízhì


text:
藝文志

Noun

 * 1)  monograph on bibliography ; bibliographic treatise

title: 藝文志