text:
Talk:Los Angeles--Riverside--Orange County, CA CMSA

What is the total population in this area? -- Kaihsu 17:06, 2004 May 10 (UTC)

Are you sure that the metropolitan area designation is no longer used? I thought it was customary to "divide" the area further but also keep the CMSA. WhisperToMe 22:25, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

United States metropolitan area does not say that CMSA is no longer used. Look at this article first, and please show me evidence that CMSA was entirely done away with. WhisperToMe 20:56, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * A paragraph near the middle of says:
 *  Federal agencies that use the statistical area definitions for nonstatistical program purposes should note that the 2000 standards changed the terminology used for classifying the areas. Under the 1980 and 1990 standards there were two types of areas: (1) Metropolitan Statistical Areas and (2) Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Areas that consisted of Primary Metropolitan Statistical Areas. The terms “Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area” and “Primary Metropolitan Statistical Area” are now obsolete.

 * This is from the top link at . I didn't comment on Baltimore-Washington because I am mainly interested in Los Angeles topics. Mackerm 03:24, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Now this gets complicated. 1. The census was done in 2000, and as that listing proves, most of the metro areas shown are CMSA.

Two is how to represent the data. The next census is all the way in 2010, so should we show the 2000 data as if it was current, or should we show it as if it was a thing of the past? Also, we must make a note of it in the United States metropolitan area article. WhisperToMe 05:11, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * You make some good points, and I appreciate all the hard work you've done with the maps. I got a bit distressed a while back because somebody (I don't think it was you) began associating various informal names of urban areas with the Census statistical districts. This causes problems especially in California, because the counties are very large and the empty land does not fit the normal definition of "metropolitan". I mostly corrected the problem by rewriting the opening of Greater Los Angeles area, and creating this page for the exact Census definition. Also, somebody changed the righthand column at United States metropolitan area so it says not necessarily equivalent to the Census definition of the metropolitan area, which really helped eliminate the confusion. (I'll post more thoughts in a little while) Mackerm 06:04, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * This may seem a bit silly now, but trust me, it's frustrating to correct an article about a village in the middle of nowhere, and someone keeps saying it's in the Greater Los Angeles area. The last problem I see (at the moment) are the names at United States metropolitan area. Although the Census dept has used the term "Metropolitan Area", the areas themselves have very specific and arcane names. That page should use those exact names, e.g. Chicago-Gary-Kenosha, IL-IN-WI CMSA. Mackerm 09:17, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)


text:
NFA

NFA may refer to:

Governmental

 * National Firearms Act, United States
 * National Firearms Agreement, Australia
 * Net foreign assets, for taxation purposes
 * New Fighter Aircraft Project, Canada

Organizations

 * Namibia Football Association
 * NFA-Cup, the Namibia Football Association Cup
 * National Farmers Association, former name of Irish Farmers' Association
 * National Federation of Anglers, now part of the Angling Trust, United Kingdom
 * National Fibromyalgia Association, United States
 * National Fire Academy, United States
 * National Fire Agency, Taiwan
 * National Firearms Association, Canada
 * National Flute Association, United States
 * National Food Authority (Philippines)
 * National Football Academy of Lithuania
 * National Forensic Association, United States
 * National Forestry Authority, Uganda
 * National Fostering Agency, United Kingdom
 * National Futures Association, United States
 * Native Forest Action, New Zealand
 * New Farmers of America
 * Newburgh Free Academy, United States
 * FK NFA, an association football team in Lithuania
 * North Flying (IATA airline code: M3, ICAO airline code: NFA) Danish airline, see List of airline codes (N)
 * Norwich Free Academy, United States
 * Nigeria Football Association
 * Nykøbing Falster Alliancen, now Nykøbing FC, Danish football club

Science

 * Nondeterministic finite automaton — in computer science
 * Non-fullerene acceptor — in polymer chemistry

Other uses

 * N'fa, British-Australian hip hop musician
 * Newburgh Free Academy, a public school in Newburgh, New York, US
 * No fire area, a region used in the set-up and construction of a kill box
 * No fixed abode, not having a fixed geographical location as a residence
 * No Fixed Address (band), Australian rock reggae band

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: NFA


text:
User:Renamed user klqwwvvxno

hullo

title: User:Renamed user klqwwvvxno


text:
Talk:Anglo-Norman language

did they speak French or Anglo-Norman?
This entire article uses the word “French” freely interchangeably with “Anglo-Norman.” It’s not clear Anglo-Norman was a separate language at all by reading this article.

 * That's the point. English French was nearer to Norman for about a century after the conquest, and nearer to Parisian French thereafter. I think the article makes this clear. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 17:47, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * They spoke Anglo-Norman (a French dialect) + French. Both are French, like Canadian English and British English are English. Some variants in the vocabulary, spelling, and pronunciation, but still the same language. Because I can read old French, I can read Anglo-Norman too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.91.51.235 (talk) 15:37, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Duplication
Is this page not somewhat duplicating Anglo-Norman?

"K" sound
"Other words such as captain, kennel, cattle and canvas exemplify how Norman retained a /k/ from Latin that was not retained in French."

What? The word for "captain" in French is "capitan" (KAP-ee-'ten). Have I misunderstood the passage? —Casey J. Morris 05:43, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * capitaine is a Normanno-Picard form in French, i.e. non-Francien. Chef shows the French development of the head root. But the sentence in question could probably be more clearly worded. Man vyi 06:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Er, yeah, "capitan" is the Spanish spelling (Sans accent) isn't it? Heh heh.  —Casey J. Morris 15:13, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * And we have the, no doubt Francien, form "chieftain"; so in this instance, unusually France retains the Norman form and English retains the Parisian! --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I had the same reaction while reading that. "kennel" -> "chenil" is a good example but "captain" -> "capitaine" and "canvas" -> "canevas" don't really work. Sure, "chef" lost the /k/ sound but that still seems like a poor example, especially since english also has "chief" without the /k/ sound (a later borrowing maybe?). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.121.74.18 (talk) 10:37, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

This is a bit of a simplification of the documentary reality: even the earliest Anglo-Norman texts and documents (e.g. Gaimar, Estoire des Engleis, 1139; the Laws of William the Conqueror ca. 1150) also have "French" spellings. It's important to remember (a) that spellings aren't a reliable echo of pronunciation and (b) writers were "feeling their way" as they evolved a vernacular which was very far from standardized, anywhere. David Trotter (talk) 23:27, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
Anglo-Norman was a dialect, it was not a language. It says so in the first sentence of the article.--Mais oui! 16:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~

 * Support --Mais oui! 16:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose All languages are dialects by definition. For example: the English language is a Germanic dialect; the French language is a Romance dialect. Man vyi 17:06, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Extremely late comment, but so you'd support an article for Yorkshire English language then? On the grounds if it's a dialect it's simultaneously a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose From the article "to compile official documents, to write literature, and for commercial purposes". Norman French was the formal language of England for several centuries. It was no more a dialect than Afrikaans was a dialect of Dutch during apartheid. --Philip Baird Shearer 08:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose The comment that "it says so in the first sentence" is undermined by your edit two hours earlier --Henrygb 10:15, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed? How so?--Mais oui! 21:40, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * If you change the article and immediately claim that the wording of the article is the reason for your proposed page move then people may doubt your good faith. --Henrygb 01:10, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it may be my edit of the first sentence that you're referring to. Sorry for any confusion caused. Man vyi 10:46, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No, I believe Henrygb is referring to this edit, made only nine minutes before Mais oui! placed the move request. In those circumstances, it is highly disingenous for Mais oui! to claim that the article's language supports his suggested change.  Perhaps he's been reading How to win an argument. —Matthew Brown (T:C) 08:20, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose --Gareth Hughes 15:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose —Matthew Brown (T:C) 08:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose Anglo-Norman clearly had both an army and a navy — Satyadasa 20:11, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Man vyi hit the nail right on the head. Most western languages are ultimately dialects of an ancient, and now lost, Indo-European mother-tongue. Rje 15:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose Continental French made changes not made in Britain (chief > chef, for instance). The older forms are well represented in English and must not be disregarded. Dajwilkinson 00:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

Have replaced contentious dialect with variety. Let's see how that goes; since Anglo-Norman developed into a literary and administrative standard, that may be a more helpful description to the non-linguist. Man vyi 09:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with the logic behind this move request, but I'd prefer to see a move to Anglo-Norman, where the unnecessary term "dialect" is left out of the title. Marco79 16:09, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * 'Anglo-Norman' is ambiguous: it can mean far more things than the language. --Gareth Hughes 16:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Gareth Hughes. Leave it here, for the same reason that most other languages have an entry at X language.  Satyadasa 20:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

One possibility is to go with "Anglo-Norman (linguistics)" to avoid using either term. That's what's done with the various Chinese languages/dialects. E.g., Mandarin (linguistics), Cantonese (linguistics), Hakka (linguistics) LuiKhuntek 07:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Or to move it to "Anglo-Norman", and move Anglo-Norman to "Anglo-Norman (Disambiguation)". The Jade Knight (talk) 11:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Result
Page not moved; no consensus. Eugene van der Pijll 18:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Oïl languages
It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I just added an infobox based on the one at French language. I've left the name as "Norman" for now, with the native name as "Normand". I wasn't sure how to handle the "total speakers" - I don't have time to find out numbers right now and in any case there are probably a lot more historical speakers than current ones. Please fill in missing params / correct errors as appropriate. Hairy Dude 04:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

first French literature in England?
I heard once, the first novel in French language was written in England, since in France at this time Latin was still state of the art. Is this true? (Sorry for my English I'm German.) LanX --217.224.41.23 02:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

David Howlett (editor of the Dictionary of Medeval Latin from British Sources) wrote on this in The English Origins of Old French Literature (Dublin: Four Courts, 1996). It is certainly true that the majority of early "French" manuscripts (lietrary) are Anglo-Norman and Howlett suggests (to simplify his intricate argument) that the earliest texts display structural principles, utlimately Biblical, transmitted via insular authors (Celtic) and picked up by Anglo-Norman writers. David Trotter (talk) 23:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Even the name of the language, "Franceis", was first used in England, as in France it was still called "romanz, romans, roman" / z= ts, then -s, then no sound at all; we still guess "romanz" in words like "romance, romancier". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.101.187.125 (talk) 19:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Etymology

 * 1) wait - guetter (French)
 * 2) war (from AN werre) - guerre (French)

AFAIK both words are of Germanic origin, so they can also derive from Anglo-Saxon. Please compare German "warten" and "Querelen" meaning "to wait" and "quarrel". Are you sure they entered English via French? Guerre comes from Frankish "werra" http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/guerre#.C3.89tymologie

also

 * 1) garden < jardin

thats "Garten" in German! This was most likely already an Anglo-Saxon word before Norman conquest. Please referre to http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/jardin#.C3.89tymologie

Which sources do you use???

LanX --217.224.41.23 03:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

OK I checked it, all words originate in Germanic/Frankish but made a detour via Norman-French:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=war&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=wait&searchmode=none http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=garden&searchmode=none

LanX --217.224.41.23 04:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Wait is clearly North French, recorded as waitier and Old French guaiter, the diphtong /ai/ before /t/ is the result of -ACT- group changing in French, so waitier / guaiter from OLFranconian *wakton > Dutch wachten, same evolution as Latin factu > fait, lactu > lait. German warten does not share the same etymology, but with ward / guard. garden is North French too : gardin / French jardin. regularly Germanic /g/ was palatized in Old English written ġ, the same root as German garten is "yard", as Auge is eye. Under ONorse influence, there are exceptions like give, German geben, but OE had ġiefan ""yive"".
 * there are many Frankish words in French, especially of "low-german" type (i.e. seaside german, today Flemish, Dutch). But due to gallo-roman pronunciation "w" became "gw" then "gu". In Picard dialects such as Picard of Picardie and Chti of French Flanders and Artois "w" is sometimes kept: warder (to keep), werre (war), watiau (cake), but there are also many french-picard mix words (garder, djerre, gatiau). Anglo-norman was very similar to old picard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.101.187.125 (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Obviously more to Old Norman. Northern Norman dialect (following the Ligne Joret) retained [w] too before it turned to [v] at the end of the 12th century. Otherwise, there are other significant phonetic traits typical for Western Normandy such as -ous (generous, etc.) instead of -eus (spelled -eux in Modern French) in Picard, French..or the absence of [j] in travaler, traveler (French, Picard travailler) > to travel or mervele, marvele (French, Picard merveille) > marvel.Nortmannus (talk) 09:36, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Origin of the term
Does anyone have information of the origin of the term? I somewhat doubt the Norman called their language the "Anglo-Norman one". Matthieu 06:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I expect it is a term scholars invented to distinguish Anglo-Norman from other sorts of Norman, or from Anglo-Saxon (Old English). My guess (this is speculation!) is that Normans referred to their langauge as Norman, Romance, "the vernacular", or possibly even French.  Modern Normans call their language "Normaund"(/Nouormand), "patois", or by the individual dialect names (such as Jèrriais).  The Jade Knight 10:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

There was a widespread tendency in the 17th to 19th centuries - still used by those who know no better - for all English varieties of medieval and legal French to be called "Norman French". It was Maitland who pointed out that this is inaccurate: the specifically Norman dialect was only used for a century or so after the conquest, after which a form of the Parisian dialect was used instead. There is nothing Norman about the language of Britton, Littleton or most of the Year Books. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 21:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

There is a case for ditching "Anglo-Norman" too, since (a) we don't know enough about the dialect(s) brought over by William and his men (b) what we do know suggests that it wasn't just Norman but also that he had Picards and men from western France with him (c) that Anglo-Norman overstates the Norman connection right through the Middle Ages, when other French dialects also exerted influence. Tradition favours Anglo-Norman but Anglo-French, or Insular French, might be better. David Trotter (talk) 23:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Wasn't Gallo the dominant language among the invaders who accompanied William the Conqueror? As I understand it, Gallo was the language of Maine, Anjou, eastern Brittany and most of Normandy, at least. "Norman French" is a dialect of Gallo that has some Norse words added, and it was (and is) spoken, as a collection of dialects, only in parts of the northern Cotentin, in the vicinity of Rouen, and in other variants on the Channel Isles. Zoetropo (talk) 01:21, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Also, is modern standard French an Ile-de-France dialect? I thought it drew on other sources, which I think included the French of Orleans, a city that is fairly close to the Gallo speaking area and used to be near the border of Armorica, the cultural region where Gallo predominated. Zoetropo (talk) 01:21, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

No, Gallo wasn't the language of the Conqueror and the majority of his Norman retainers. They mostly originated north of the linguistic Joret Line, and spoke a different dialect - as evidenced by the characteristic Ws: e.g. William was Willelm/Williame in Norman, not 'Guilliame'.

In 1066 the Normans, along with romance speakers across western Europe, simply knew their local dialect as 'Romanz' - Roman - which is why we still call them romance. In Italy it was sometimes also called 'Vulgaro'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.115.70.210 (talk) 14:35, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Copyright Violation
I have reported this article on the copyright violations page. Whoever wrote this clearly just copied chunks of David Trotter's original article.
 * Yes it was. I removed the copyright violation. Garion96 (talk) 18:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Anglo-French neologisms/archaisms absent from Continental French
In England the phrase "double entendre" for an expression with both an innocent everyday and a risqué interpretation is in current use but has been superseded in France by "double entente".

Also, the phrase "bon viveur" has appeared in English news items in recent years but is utterly absent from Continental French, in which it is ungrammatical (bon vivant being the correct form).

Do these count as Anglo-Norman/Anglo-French neologisms or archaisms? If not, what are they? Dajwilkinson 00:01, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

No, these represent far later borrowings from French, probably from the nineteenth century. Another example is the use of "Ooh la la" to show that something is naughty or risqué: in French "oh la la" is a purely innocent phrase meaning "oh dear". --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 21:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

My query stems more from the idea found in the article on the Japanese language page regarding what is known as wasei-eigo, translatable as "English made in Japan". We instinctively know what a "salaryman" is but without the people of Japan this word would never have appeared. Is there a similar term for this kind of false French? Dajwilkinson 00:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

French dialect
Is it wrong to classify this variety as a French dialect? Aaker (talk) 19:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, if it is wrong to classify Old French as a Norman dialect. The Jade Knight (talk) 07:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Anglo-Norman is a "French dialect" if by that is meant: "a dialect of northern Gallo-Romance", in other words, if "French" is used as shorthand for that rather cumbersome formulation, and as long as we don't forget that modern French is a derivative of (mainly) one dialect and thus implies reduction of that dialectal diversity. Anglo-Norman is however not a "French dialect" if by "French" in that context, is meant only that form of northern Gallo-Romance (broadly, Ile-de-France French) which would (with some admixture of other forms) in due course become modern standard French. David Trotter (talk) 23:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This being a longer, more complicated, and more accurate summation of what I said. The Jade Knight (talk) 21:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Anglo-Norman v Norman
The article says Anglo-Norman and Norman were different languages. In what ways were they different? For example, the article has some words showing some differences between Anglo-Norman and French, and some words showing some differences between Norman and French, but nothing showing any differences between Anglo-Norman vocabulary and Norman vocabulary. Dab14763 (talk) 19:13, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * First, it is important to understand that "Norman" may mean two things linguistically: First it used to refer to the entire Norman "family" of languages/dialects.  In this sense, all forms of Norman, including Old Norman, Anglo-Norman, Jèrriais, and continental Norman are all "Norman".  This is what we mean when we talk about "the Norman dialects/languages".  The other meaning of the term "Norman" refers specifically to the collection of Norman dialects currently spoken on the continent (in Normandy).  These are generally grouped together as a single language (which may include the insular dialects, or may exclude them—frequently, in Norman, one speaks of three "languages": continental "Norman", Jèrriais (which would include Sèrtchais), and Guernésiais.  Norman in this sense refers only to the modern Norman dialects, and sometimes only to the continental dialects.
 * So, to answer your question: Anglo-Norman is an extinct, and very old, dialect of Norman, and the differences between it and the modern Norman dialects would probably be quite similar to the differences between Old Norman and modern Norman (just a guess).  A comparison of the Dictionnaire Jèrsiais-Français, the OED, and perhaps a good Anglo-Norman dictionary would probably help tease out the exact distinctions between these languages/dialects.  I am ignorant of whether or not any work has been done drawing up the historical linguistics of Norman, however.  The Jade Knight (talk) 10:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed split to Anglo-French
I propose the sections detailing specifically Anglo-French (and not discussing Anglo-Norman) be split and used to create an article at Anglo-French (currently being used as a disambiguation page). In particular, the lengthy parts in "Use and development" seem appropriate for this shift. The Jade Knight (talk) 10:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I, for one, would be extremely grateful if someone would create an article about the Anglo-French language. I know nothing about it (which is why I'm here), so whether splitting it off from this article is the solution I don't know. But the current disambiguation page results in useless circular references back to this article, making it impossible for a non-expert to determine what Anglo-French actually is. Is it the same as Anglo-Norman? Evidently not, because many articles (including its disambiguation page) assert that it is not, but nowhere is Anglo-French even defined—much less described—in any way that's intelligible to a layman. If I'm overlooking it somewhere, somebody please set me on the right path.--Jim10701 (talk) 21:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A brief definition is provided at the Anglo-French disambig page: "Linguistic - may be used to refer to the dialect of French that developed in England following the decline of the Norman language there."  The Jade Knight (talk) 23:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Are there any sources for that definition? I work mainly on Japanese version of Wikipedia and I translated this article into Japanese. But there is a controversy about the term "Anglo-French". The article is no doubt based on the definition mentioned above (and the next "It may also be used erroneously to describe the Anglo-Norman language, the dialect of Old Norman used in medieval England", at the Anglo-French page) but no reliable sources are cited. One Japanese editor insists that it may be original research to say without sources that using Anglo-French as Anglo-Norman is erroneous. The editor also says the article sounds strange in parts such as, "Middle English was heavily influenced by both Anglo-Norman and, later, Anglo-French" because they are the same or much the same. I can't find sources appropriately endorsing the above definition in The Anglo-Norman On_Line Hub(They advocate using Anglo-French instead of Anglo-Norman for the language even before the decline of the Norman). Are there any good sources that explicitly describe Anglo-French is the dialect of French developed in England after the decline of the Norman?--Ryota7906 (talk) 13:25, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I currently don't have access to most academic publications, so we may have to wait on academic sources. I'll try to add some references as soon as I'm able.  In the meantime, borrowings in English make it obvious enough that Anglo-French and Anglo-Norman were distinct.  I suppose it could be argued that "Anglo-Norman" and "Anglo-French" simply refer to two distinct stages of the same language continuum, but the former was distinctly Norman in character, where the latter was distinctly French in character.  The issue is complicated by the fact that many in the English-speaking world seem unaware that Norman is (and has been for a thousand years) distinct from French.  The Jade Knight (talk) 21:29, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * We seem to have reached a bit of a deadlock on the Anglo-Norman/Anglo-French question. That is, how to do justice to the two facts that:

It drives me mad when people confuse the two, so that phrases like "la reyne le veult" and the whole French-derived vocabulary in English are indiscriminately described as "Norman French". Conversely, I can see that you do not want the genuinely Norman borrowings to be forgotten about because they are swamped in a mass of later French.
 * 1) A genuinely Norman dialect was used in England in c. 1066-1166, and a certain number of English words such as "castle" and "warranty" are borrowed from it
 * 2) In the later Middle Ages a dialect based on Parisian French tended to supplant it in Parliamentary and court usage, and a huge quantity of English vocabulary is derived from that.
 * In an ideal world there would be two separate articles. Short of that, can we perhaps sort out the paragraphs chronologically: "1. Norman French was spoken 1066-1166; we borrow words ABC; 2. Francien/Parisian French was spoken 1166-1500 or so and became "Law French"; we borrow words DEF; 3. some doublets have been borrowed from both, e.g. warranty/guarantee"? --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 10:09, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

In fact what is going on here is that there are several senses of the name, with none of them being inherently invalid, and a speaker or writer cannot unambiguously use any particular one of them without specifying to the audience which one they are using. And not every linguist would agree that they are "two different/separate things"—and with good reason: it does not necessarily make sense linguistically to try to impose a dividing line at any particular point, versus another point, inside the middle of a fluid spectrum. One look at the list of senses in a WP:RS dictionary shows the situation; for example, I'm quoting here Merriam-Webster Unabridged at "Anglo-French": Additionally, we have the following facts:
 * "[1]: the French language used in medieval England:"
 * "[1a]: the French of Normandy used in England in the 11th and 12th centuries"
 * "[1b]: the French resulting from admixture of Norman and central French used from the 12th to the 15th centuries"
 * The names "Norman" and "Norman French" are synonymous (see the same WP:RSs aforementioned), so it makes for fragile prescription to talk down to anyone about how "Norman" is different from "French", when one means "French" exclusively in the narrower sense of "central French", without explicitly specifying which sense is meant. Relatedly, NB above the mention of "Norman and central French" as two kinds of French (i.e., both French).
 * NB regarding the definition "the French language used in medieval England" that all of the Norman and post-Norman medieval span of time is contained within the Middle Ages, that is, the medieval period. Therefore, any attempt to assert that "medieval" is different/separate from the Norman period is misplaced prescription; the distinction is between middling medieval and later medieval.

Given these facts, it is misplaced frustration to be "[driven] mad when people confuse the two", because (1) it is inevitable that ambiguity is not at zero unless each user of the term explicitly specifies the intended sense (a principle that positively pervades natural language), and (2) it is not inevitable to believe that there are two separate things to be confused (rather a unitary spectrum to have gradations). And even if average people (i.e., everyone who isn't a philologist or linguist with advanced knowledge of European languages history, i.e., 99.9% of humans) don't know those gradations, that is, don't know which word was borrowed in which century from which dialect, that isn't confusion—that's just the normal baseline of the limits of topic knowledge in reality.

All of this adds up to the fact that no one can credibly look down on anyone else for "confusing" the "two" or not knowing where and how a dividing line lies between the "two" [segments of "one"] (which is why the word "erroneously" has been duly deleted over at the disambig page Anglo-French); and *if* Wikipedia has two separate articles for two segments of the spectrum (which I would not bother doing), they can't be titled "Anglo-Norman" and/versus "Anglo-French" with any true clarity; instead, they would have to be titled something else, such as, potentially, "Anglo-Norman French (11th-12th centuries)" and "Anglo-French (13th-15th centuries)", or some such. Not really worth doing one when one article could have chronologic sections instead. I say that because this is a general encyclopedia, even if a set of philological monographs could have two volumes on the segments. Cheers all, Quercus solaris (talk) 18:49, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

grammar, grimoires and other glamours
"The word glamour is derived, unglamorously, from AN grammeire, the same word which gives us modern grammar. Apparently glamour meant magic or magic spell in Medieval times" The word "grimoire", a book of magic spells, jumped to my mind reading this sentence, should it also be part of the discussion?
 * Quite exact. According to T. H. Hoad's English Etymology, OUP. AN Grammarye, gramarie would have given AN *glomerie > glamour. AN grammere would have given grammar. Grimoire is the same kind of change, but in French and borrowed from French. Only in French ei can become oi, Anglo-Norman like all the Western Oil dialects kept ei intact. The /gri/ is probably the result of an influence from grimuche, Old French word for grimace. Nortmannus (talk) 19:30, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Anglo-Norman ei
The article currently reads: "The words veil and leisure retain the /ei/ (as does modern Norman in vaile and laîsi) that in French has been replaced by /wɑː/ voile, loisir."

This is strictly incorrect, if it intends to suggest that the Modern English diphthong [eɪ] descends without change from the Anglo-Norman sound represented by ei.

In fact, English [eɪ] is a fairly new sound, arising around 1800 (or only slightly earlier). Anglo-Norman ei was not retained, having merged with ai, which became English ai (presumably [aɪ] or something similar), which in turn merged with English long a, whose sound rapidly mutated (by raising and fronting) from [aː] to [æː] to [ɛː] to [eː] (as it still is in Scottish Standard English) and thence to [eɪ]. The spelling ai is seen in the very old borrowing faith (early Norman feid, feit, fait). With secondary destressing we see e (e.g. power from poeir, later pooir, MF pouvoir and endeavo(u)r, formerly endever, from en+deveir, later devoir).

What would be more correct is to simply note that the Modern English sounds descended in some cases from Anglo-Norman ei prior to the French change of ei to oi (which was, of course, originally pronounced something like [ɔɪ]). But many words were borrowed in the Middle Ages after the change: anoint, boil, cloister, coin, coy, enjoy, join, joint, joy, loin, loyal, moist, noise, oil, ointment, royal, soil (n. and v.), voice, void; and in these cases the diphthong has been preserved with minimal change since the Middle Ages.RandomCritic (talk) 04:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Really interesting, what we can read here. Thanks. Nortmannus (talk) 20:50, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Standardization
Do we want to use accents like féchoun (é) and caundèle (è) even though they didn't exist yet? Such accents are added by modern editors to help the reader understand. These sort of accents didn't appear until around 1780 according to the TLFi. Also, does Norman refer to the Norman language or to Anglo-Norman, in sentences like "English therefore, for example, has fashion from Norman féchoun as opposed to Modern French". Finally, AN and PF should be written out (WP:PAPER) but I'll do that now. --Mglovesfun (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The words provided (with accents) are examples of Modern Norman, strictly speaking, the English words did not derive from those forms, but the Norman forms are given for comparison (just as the modern French forms are given for comparison). Either way, it would be incorrect to remove the accents from those words. Again, strictly speaking, the article is in error in stating that "fashion" derives from féchoun; technically, they both derive from a common Old Norman stem. The Jade Knight (talk) 21:35, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Sourced, but untrue, statement.
A few days ago I removed the following statement:

 * Norman and French influence affected the English vocabulary, grammar, spelling and pronunciation. As a result, the Anglo-Saxon grammar became less flexible in the choice of the order of words in the sentence, while the verbal system of endings for adjectives, nouns and verbs became simpler.[7]

It has recently been restored as the statement was sourced, but I didn't provide a "source" for my removing it. I don't know how I am meant to reference the deletion of a statement, as it's no longer in the article. Anyway, let me do it here so it can be redeleted for good.

The claim is untrue, as the changes in inflection and word order began in Late Old English, and were not brought about by Norman French. The easiest reference to this I can give, is in Baugh & Cable, A History of the English Language, 4ed. (which is a standard textbook). In Chapter 7 they give details of how grammatical and phonological changes emerged from Old Engilsh, and specifically on page 163, they say:

 * It is important to emphasize that these changes which affected the grammatical structure of English after the Norman Conquest were not the result of contact with the French language.

 * The changes weren't due to the Conquest entirely. Contact across the Danelaw had already begun to erode some of the inflection in articles. On the other hand, the Beowulf MS dates from around 1000 (Kiernan's estimate) and still has heavily inflected grammar. Thus, educated people then as today retained more inflection than commoners. The word order in Beowulf is extremely flexible. Without the Norman Conquest's driving English from the courts, etc, the literate speakers of Old English might have retained a lot more inflection than we see today. 66.61.102.203 (talk) 00:51, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

The only change which is really attributable to French is the inflow of new vocabulary. As the paragraph below speaks about vocabulary, this paragraph should be deleted. Emma May Smith (talk) 22:39, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

 * It is understood that deflexion has something to do with language contact. Anglo-Saxon was already an amalgam of different continental Germanic dialects. Over time there was significant contact with different Celtic languages as well as Norse. Therefore it is indeed true, and not surprising, that some of those grammatical changes had started before the French influence, and they might have had quite similar outcomes without it. On the other hand it is impossible to say that French had no influence on grammar or syntax whatsoever. It did. Especially concerning word order in which English is different from all other Germanic languages, but very similar to French. So: The influence of French should not be overestimated, it is not the reason for everything; but it is one of the reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.206.163.110 (talk) 12:55, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Translation of motto "Honi soit qui mal y pense"
The translation provided is too word-for-word to render the exact thought behind the motto. I suggest here "Reviled be whoever thinks ill", but also "Reviled be whoever has ill thoughts" or (...) vile thoughts" or "(...) abject thoughts", etc... Any other idea ? Condor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.196.50.33 (talk) 14:12, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

chaotic intro
The article starts out by defining Anglo-Norman and says it's a synonym of Anglo-Norman French. Then it suddenly starts talking about Anglo-French without explaining what that is and only indirectly(!) says it's something different (by using a verb in the plural). In addition, the first use of the undefined term is followed by a sophomoric "its" that can be interpreted as referring to two synonyms for one language or to "correspondence". Very sloppy and chaotic. --Espoo (talk) 09:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Grammatical and syntactical influences
The introduction says that Anglo-Norman had little grammatical influence on English, which is probably correct. The only example given, however, is the noun-adjective word order in certain titles like attorney general. This is a bad example. The older Germanic languages did allow this word order, though they used it rarely. Moreover, this worder occurs in English outside of titles, particularly with participles (cf. my "the example given" above). The most striking instance of a likely Anglo-Norman influence is actually that English has lost V2 word order. All Germanic languages (without exception!) do have this, as did Old English and early Middle English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.204.115.180 (talk) 19:22, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Mortgage/gage/wage
'Compare also: wage (Anglo-Norman) - gage (French)'

vs

'Mortgage, for example, literally meant death-wage in Anglo-Norman'

105.227.61.241 (talk) 13:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget Scotland!
This article seems to mention only England and Ireland, but of course exactly the same was true of Scotland after the Norman Conquest of northern Britain nominally headed by the usurper David I on behalf of William's son Henry I.

Walter of Coventry (fl. 1290) wrote “The modern kings of Scotia count themselves as Frenchmen [i.e. Norman], in race, manners, language and culture; they keep only Frenchmen in their household and following, and have reduced the Scots [=Gaels north of the Forth] to utter servitude". Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.111.241 (talk) 18:22, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Anglo-Norman language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140311153723/http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/7/trotter/ to http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/7/trotter/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:24, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 9 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. We have no agreement that the language is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC among other uses. I'll move the dab page to Anglo-Norman. Cúchullain t/ c 15:45, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Anglo-Norman language → Anglo-Norman – This page can be moved to match its headword, since Anglo-Norman is only a redirect. The ISO 639-3 name is simply 'Anglo-Norman' and this is also the name used in the Oxford English Dictionary. Alternatively, the page could be moved to Anglo-Norman French to match the Oxford Dictionary of English. AndrewNJ (talk) 09:44, 9 November 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. — usernamekiran (talk)  20:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Is the language or is Anglo-Normans the more sought after topic? —  AjaxSmack  12:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Exactly. We need to know what the primary topic is, and if there isn't one, Anglo-Norman should be a DAB page. - BilCat (talk) 16:52, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's safe to say that people looking up 'Anglo-Norman' are far more likely to be looking for the language. The specialized OED notes the use of the term to refer to Anglo-Norman people, etc., but the Oxford Dictionary of English doesn't even list that as a definition. A Google search for the term results (at least for me) in a page results that are, all but one, discussing the language, and indeed they automatically show the first line of the Wikipedia article for 'Anglo-Norman language', not 'Anglo-Normans'. AndrewNJ (talk) 12:33, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 12:56, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - Per nom's assertion that the language is the primary topic. A DAB page is needed for articles such as Anglo-Norman literature and Anglo-Norman horse (that's a new one to me!), so I'll create that later today at Anglo-Norman (disambiguation), unless someone else wants to do it sonner (not a hint). - BilCat (talk) 12:56, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * SupportAnglo-Norman French, as this is probably a better unambiguous title, but the language is clearly the primary topic for Anglo-Norman in the absence of contradictory data, and as such would be a redirect to the language article. - BilCat (talk) 14:01, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Of the first 20 results on a google books search for " Anglo-Norman", all but 3 refer neither to the language nor the people, but to the historical period and its culture. The closest match I could find for this topic seems to be Anglo-Norman England, but this is currently a redirect to a section within History of England and it only deals with the political events. – Uanfala 22:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Oppose. No primary topic, so Anglo-Norman should be a DAB as several have suggested. The articles on the language and the people are adequately named, and there are other topics as well that should be listed in the DAB. Andrewa (talk) 14:37, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * DAB now at Anglo-Norman (disambiguation), so...

 * Oppose the proposed move per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC; Most of the top Google Books hits do not refer to the language. Support Anglo-Norman as a DAB page.  —  AjaxSmack  02:10, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Origin of the term
It is quite obvious that the term "Anglo-Norman" is fairly recent, since all the accounts of the era describe the language spoken by the Norman nobility in England as simply "French". I'm fairly certain this term was invented by nationalistic 19th century British historians who wanted to mark a separation between their French rivals and the foreign elites that ruled England centuries ago, but it would be great to have sourced accounts of the term's origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.150.142.207 (talk) 09:19, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * 18th century according to the OED: "1735  M. Shelton tr. W. Wotton Short View Hickes's Anc. Northern-lang. 30 (note)    The Anglo-Norman ing, is changed into ig, by throwing out the n."John O'London (talk) 16:55, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Bibliographical reference missing
Footnote 9 refers to "Fuderman," but neither References nor Bibliography lists the publication in question.

title: Talk:Anglo-Norman language


text:
Arena (band)

Arena are an English neo-prog band founded in 1995. Their style ranges from symphonic to hard rock.

History
Arena was founded in 1995 by Clive Nolan keyboardist of Pendragon and Shadowland, and Mick Pointer, the original drummer of Marillion, his tenure lasting from 1979 until 1983. The other founding members of the band were guitarist Keith More, vocalist John Carson, and bassist Cliff Orsi. Orsi was replaced by John Jowitt (of IQ) in the band's inaugural year, whilst Carson and More left the band in 1996 and 1997, and were replaced by Paul Wrightson and John Mitchell (of Frost*) respectively.

Both Jowitt and Wrightson left the band in 1998, to be replaced by Ian Salmon and Rob Sowden, creating the band's most stable lineup to date (from 1998 until 2010). This lineup came to an end with Paul Manzi replacing Sowden in 2010. In 2011, Jowitt rejoined the band to replace the departing Salmon, leaving again in 2014 and being replaced by Kylan Amos. In July 2020, Manzi was replaced by Damian Wilson.

Most of the band's lyrics are written by Nolan, though Pointer contributed lyrics to Sirens and other tracks on the first two albums.

Musically the band's style ranges from symphonic to hard rock. While in the beginning the Band sound like the "old" Marillion from the Fish era, some of the band's recent albums have a similar sound to Nolan's earlier band, Shadowland.

AllMusic called them one of the dominant neo-prog groups of the 1990s.

Personnel

 * Current members
 * Clive Nolan – keyboards, backing vocals (1995–present)
 * Mick Pointer – drums (1995–present)
 * John Mitchell – guitars, backing vocals (1997–present)
 * Kylan Amos – bass (2014–present)
 * Damian Wilson – lead vocals (2020–present)

 * Former members
 * John Carson – lead vocals (1995–1996)
 * Cliff Orsi – bass (1995–1996)
 * Keith More – guitars, backing vocals (1995–1997)
 * John Jowitt – bass, backing vocals (1996–1999, 2010–2014)
 * Paul Wrightson – lead vocals (1996–1999)
 * Ian Salmon – bass (1999–2010)
 * Rob Sowden – lead vocals (1999–2010)
 * Paul Manzi – lead vocals (2010–2020)

Studio

 * Songs from the Lion's Cage (1995)
 * Pride (1996)
 * The Visitor (1998)
 * Immortal? (2000)
 * Contagion (2003)
 * Pepper's Ghost (2005)
 * The Seventh Degree of Separation (2011)
 * The Unquiet Sky (2015)
 * Double Vision (2018)
 * The Theory of Molecular Inheritance (2022)

Live

 * Welcome to the Stage (1997)
 * Breakfast in Biarritz (2001)
 * Live & Life (2004)
 * Arena: Live (2013)
 * Arena: XX (2016)
 * Lifian (2023)

EP

 * Edits (1996)
 * The Cry (1997)
 * Contagious (2003)
 * Contagium (2003)

Compilations

 * Ten Years On (2006)

Videos/DVDs

 * Caught in the Act (2003) (live)
 * Smoke & Mirrors (2006) (live)
 * Rapture (2011) (live)
 * Arena: XX (2016) (live)
 * Re-Visited (2018) (live)

Fanclub releases

 * Welcome Back! To the Stage (1997)
 * The Visitor Revisited (1999)
 * Unlocking the Cage (2000)
 * Radiance (2003)

title: Arena (band)


text:
Rediffusion

Rediffusion was a business that distributed radio and TV signals through wired relay networks. The business gave rise to a number of other companies, including Associated-Rediffusion, later known as Rediffusion London, the first ITV (commercial television) franchisee to go on air in the UK. Rediffusion also spawned a record label, Rediffusion International Music, in 1968 (which was also responsible for the short-lived Koala label).

Redifon was the name used, until 1981, for companies in the capital goods businesses of Rediffusion, namely Redifon Computers, Redifon Flight Simulation and Redifon Telecommunications.

The Rediffusion brand has been revived and is currently used in China on consumer electrical products and on LED televisions in the UK.

Early history
Rediffusion was the trading name of Broadcast Relay Service Limited, founded in March 1928 for Joshua Powell (9 May 1871 – October 1946).

In January 1929, the company introduced its first cable radio service in Hull to customers frustrated with the difficulties of tuning in weak radio broadcasts. In the customer premises, nothing more than a selector switch and loudspeaker were needed. Initially, the service consisted primarily of rebroadcasts of the BBC Radio service, which was reflected in the trading name: Rediffusion simply means "broadcasting again".

Rediffusion quickly branched out into making, renting, and selling radios, both receivers for its cable services and conventional models. With the arrival of the first experimental television broadcasts in the 1930s, Rediffusion began manufacturing TV sets and supplying "Piped TV", an early form of Cable TV, service to its customers, until the cessation of television broadcasts during the Second World War.

The first British colony to have the Rediffusion service was Barbados in 1934, when Radio Distribution (Barbados) Limited was formed.

A year later, Rediffusion started operating in Malta. Transmissions in Malta started from Hamrun on 11 November 1935, under the name of "Broadcast Relay Service Malta Limited" Charles Whotcroft and George Powler were the first manager and chief engineer respectively.

Post-war
In 1947, British Electric Traction acquired a substantial minority interest in Rediffusion. BET acquired a controlling interest in 1967, and the remaining 36% of equity in 1983.

In 1948, Rediffusion established Redifon Ltd as a manufacturer of naval (and later flight) telecommunications equipment.

After the war, Rediffusion began operations in several of the then British colonies. These included holding the concessions for wired and over-the-air radio and television stations. A subsidiary company, Overseas Rediffusion, operated these stations and also sold advertising time and programming for them. Stations included the radio station Rediffusion Barbados, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and the wired television service Rediffusion Television in Hong Kong, the latter later known as Asia Television. It also opened a company in Jersey in 1949, Rediffusion (Channel Islands) Limited, which obtained a licence to relay radio broadcasts from the States of Jersey in 1950. It also opened a manufacturing division in Jersey, Television Research Limited (TVR) which also provided research facilities for the wired network. This was established in 1952, and was renamed Reditronics Limited in 1976.

BET's financial resources enabled Rediffusion to capitalise on the growth in post war television, which restarted in 1946. Initially, the company installed cable TV systems in blocks of flats in London, and over the next few years expanded outside London. The company was also involved in the sale and rental of television sets.

Expansion into broadcasting
With the passage of the Television Act 1954, Rediffusion joined forces with Associated Newspapers, a subsidiary of Daily Mail and General Trust, to form Associated-Rediffusion, and won the coveted London weekday ITV broadcast franchise. They began broadcasting on 22 September 1955.

During the partnership's first year, Associated-Rediffusion was losing money so fast that by the end of 1956, Associated Newspapers sold 80% of its stake back to BET and Rediffusion at a severe loss. Around this time, Associated-Rediffusion struck a very lucrative deal with Granada Television, the franchise holder for weekday broadcasts in the North of England. Granada was also losing money, and lacked the financial resources of BET; the deal guaranteed Granada a certain level of financial security, at the cost of Associated-Rediffusion receiving the vast majority of future profits from their arrangement.

On 29 September 1962, Rediffusion (Malta) Ltd. inaugurated a television service covering the Maltese islands.

By 1964, when Associated-Rediffusion changed its name to Rediffusion London, the efforts of the owners had left them sitting on a substantial cash pile, and it is arguable that this success may have led to the 1967 decision by the Independent Television Authority to effectively break up the company. Rediffusion London was ordered to merge with ABC Weekend TV, the holder of the weekend Midlands and North of England franchises, to form Thames Television, with ABC given the controlling interest (despite its generally weaker financial position) and Rediffusion holding 49%. Thames Television was given the new weekday London franchise, with ABC's existing franchises awarded to other companies.

Rediffusion Cable

Rediffusion also offered a low-bandwidth cable TV and radio distribution system. This was based on connecting homes with multiple twisted-pair cables. Each pair carried a single TV or radio channel. The system was provided in most United Kingdom towns. Selection of TV or radio station was by means of a rotary switch, usually mounted on a wall or window frame close to the point of entry of the cable into the home. From this a two-wire cable led to the TV or radio. The TVs used on this system were stripped-down TV sets with no tuner or RF front-end and the radios were little more than a loudspeaker with a step down transformer and volume control. Rediffusion abandoned this system of TV and radio distribution by the end of the 1980s. The wall mounted switches, external junction boxes and street cable ducts are still visible in places that have not been redeveloped since the late 1980s.

Overseas Rediffusion

BET and Rediffusion Limited had strong links with the former British colonies. These included holding the concessions for wired and over-the-air radio and television stations. A subsidiary company, Overseas Rediffusion, operated these stations and also sold advertising time and programming for them. Stations included the radio operations in Barbados, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Malaysia, Malta, Liberia, Thailand and the wired television service Rediffusion Television in Hong Kong, the latter now known as Asia Television.

Rediffusion Rentals
The Rediffusion retail chain, renting and servicing TVs, radios, VCRs and hi-fi systems, was common on high streets until it was bought by Granada Rentals in 1984.

Last years
Rediffusion's television sale and rental operations continued to grow, particularly following the start of colour television broadcasts in 1967.

On 14 February 1975, the employees of the Rediffusion (Malta) Ltd staged a sit-in strike at the company's premises in Malta and they even started to run the company. On 30 July 1975, an agreement was reached between Rediffusion Group of Companies and the Dom Mintoff led Labour Party government of Malta for the transfer of all Rediffusion's assets in Malta to the Maltese government.

The company also experimented with its local cable operations: a local community station in Bristol ("Bristol Channel") from 1973 to 1976, and an optical fibre system in Hastings in 1976.

The Rediffusion brand was also a name in aircraft simulation in both the UK and the US. Redifon, established in 1948, had become a manufacturer of flight simulators and in 1981, BET changed Redifon's name to Rediffusion Simulation to capitalise on the name. The company was sold in 1988, to Hughes Aircraft, which kept the Rediffusion name until it sold the company in 1994.

Redifon (later Rediffusion) Computers was also part of the group and was based in Crawley, West Sussex. It initially started in the production of analogue computers to control flight simulators, then moved to produce minicomputers ("R range"), departmental Unix Servers and microcomputers ("teleputers"), specialising in data capture, enterprise accounting for local government and videotex systems. Michael Aldrich joined the company as marketing director in 1977, and became managing director and CEO in 1980.

From 1980, the company designed, manufactured, sold, installed and maintained online shopping systems mainly in the UK and achieved a significant number of world firsts. The company's name was changed to Rediffusion Computers in 1981. During the 1980s, a large part of the company's revenue came from its sales in Eastern Europe and Russia. Equipment that met the CoCom directive for the sales of high performance technology to the Soviet Block was supplied to a number of customers the largest of which was Gazprom who used the systems on the Siberian Gas Pipeline project. In addition there was a steady stream of Polish engineers attending the Crawley training facility to enable them to support and maintain this equipment mainly in Russia but also in other countries in the Eastern Bloc.

The company was highly innovative and amongst other things developed a signature recognition system for detecting cheque fraud. It was one of the first companies to sell a turnkey solution that utilised the newly available Post Office database (PAF) for postcode recognition. In 1984, Aldrich led a management buyout and the company became ROCC Computers (Rediffusion's Old Computer Company). Aldrich was the largest shareholder and he subsequently bought-out the other shareholders.

In the 1980s, Rediffusion's cable operations were left behind by the new generation of cable TV networks. BET (from 1983 the sole owners of Rediffusion) began divesting and sold off its overseas interests, and at the end of the 1980s, the company was broken up, The rentals business went to Granada, and the cable network systems were sold to the Maxwell Communications.

Reditronics Jersey was sold to SCK Holdings Limited in 1986, and following BET's retreat from cable and the consequent loss of associated contracts, it ceased trading in 1987. The Rediffusion Jersey cable network was sold to Jersey Cable Limited (now Newtel Solutions) in 1988.

In 1991, a Hong Kong-based branch of the company, now known as Asia Television, returned telerecording copies of all four episodes of The Tomb of the Cybermen, a Doctor Who serial, to the BBC. The prints were in good condition, and the episodes were thought to have been lost for roughly fifteen years.

title: Rediffusion


text:
Uroplatus ebenaui

Uroplatus ebenaui, commonly known as Ebenau's leaf-tailed gecko, the Nosy Be flat-tail gecko, and the spearpoint leaf-tail gecko, is a species of lizard in the family Gekkonidae. The species is native to Madagascar.

Geographic range
U. ebenaui is found on Nosy Bé island and in eastern and northern Madagascar, at altitudes from sea level to 500 m.

Etymology
The specific name, ebenaui, is in honor of German zoologist Karl Ebenau.

Habitat
U. ebenaui lives in tropical rain forests and dry deciduous forests.

Description
U. ebenaui is the smallest species of Uroplatus and can reach a total length (including tail) of 4 inches.

Behavior
U. ebenaui is arboreal and nocturnal. This gecko eats insects at night and is inactive during the day. Additionally, it sleeps flattened against tree trunks, camouflaged with the bark.

Reproduction
U. ebenaui is oviparous. Clutch size is two spherical eggs, which are laid on the ground.

Taxonomy
Uroplatus ebenaui may be a complex of species.

title: Uroplatus ebenaui


text:
Christopher Finzi

Christopher "Kiffer" Finzi (12 July 1934 — 28 November 2019) was a British orchestral conductor. He was the son of composer Gerald Finzi and artist Joyce Black (known as Joy Finzi).

Background
Born in Hampstead, London in 1934, Finzi was the elder of Gerald Finzi's two sons. Both he and his younger brother Nigel (1936–2010) attended Bedales School in Hampshire, where they were exposed to a liberal education and intellectual freedom much in line with their parents' own progressive outlook on the world. Finzi attended the Royal Academy of Music and embarked on a career as a freelance cellist. He became the conductor of the Newbury String Players after the death of his father who had founded the orchestra.

Like his father, the younger Finzi became a pacifist. As a conscientious objector he refused military service in 1955 and was briefly imprisoned before being allowed to do farm work. After his father's death in 1956, he helped his mother to establish the Finzi Trust and sustain Gerald Finzi's reputation. Their lifestyle was bohemian, living in a remote farmhouse.

Marriage
Finzi married Hilary du Pré, a flautist, in 1961. They raised their four children, Theresa, Clare, Nicolette and Orlando, at Church Farm in Ashmansworth, Hampshire, the family home built by Finzi's parents. Du Pré's younger sister, the cellist Jacqueline du Pré, was part of their household during the 1970s.

Hilary du Pré's 1997 memoir, A Genius in the Family, written with her brother Piers du Pré, created controversy when it was revealed that Finzi had had an affair with his sister-in-law.

The 1998 film Hilary and Jackie, the plot of which was based on interviews with Hilary and Piers, told the same basic story and was also controversial.

Later life
Finzi eventually turned his attention away from music to farming, establishing a poultry business at Ashmansworth. He and his wife operated a health food shop in Newbury, Berkshire.

He made several recordings in his capacity as a conductor, including a performance of Gerald Finzi's Dies Natalis and music by British composers Robin Milford and Edmund Rubbra. From 1971 to 1997, Finzi was resident conductor of the North Wiltshire Orchestra.

Finzi died in November 2019, aged 85.

title: Christopher Finzi


text:
User talk:WPWoodJr

Bill,

My name is Rich Holton (user:Rholton), and I'm the person who originally listed Ratfiv programming language on Votes for deletion, though I probably should have listed it on Possible copyright infringements.

Since then, I have learned that the original author of the Ratfiv is William P. Woods, Jr. -- very likely you. (it took me a while to connect the dots...)

If you are the author, you can quickly and easily put to rest any issues by making a statement to that effect, and stating that you have placed it into the public domain, and that you have the right to do so. The talk page for the article would be a good place: Talk:Ratfiv programming language.

I do want to thank you for not reacting with venom. It seems likely now that the article is legit and will not be deleted. I should warn you that it will probably be edited to remove the large block of source text, which is generally frowned upon at Wikipedia.

I hope that you continue to contribute at Wikipedia. There is always a need for another sharp mind and cool head.

-Rich

---

Thanks Rich, I've updated the Talk:Ratfiv programming language page as you suggested.

Nomination of Boo (programming language) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Boo (programming language) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Boo (programming language)(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. causa sui (talk) 16:52, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:WPWoodJr


text:
Symbolic linguistic representation

A symbolic linguistic representation is a representation of an utterance that uses symbols to represent linguistic information about the utterance, such as information about phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, or semantics. Symbolic linguistic representations are different from non-symbolic representations, such as recordings, because they use symbols to represent linguistic information rather than measurements.

Symbolic representations are widely used in linguistics. In syntactic representations, atomic category symbols often refer to the syntactic category of a lexical item. Examples include lexical categories such as auxiliary verbs (INFL), phrasal categories such as relative clauses (SRel) and empty categories such as wh-traces (tWH).undefined In some formalisms, such as Lexical Functional Grammar, these symbols can refer to both grammatical functions and values of grammatical categories. In linguistics, empty categories are represented with ∅.

Symbolic representations also appear in phonetic transcription, descriptions of phonological processes, trochees, phonemes, morphophonemes, natural classes, semantic features such as animacy and the qualia structures of Generative Lexicon Theory.

In natural language processing, linguistic representations, such as syntactic representations, have long been in the service of improving the output of information retrieval systems, such as search engines and machine translation systems. Recently, in span-based neural constituency parsing lexical items begin as wordpiece tokens or BPE tiktokens before they are transformed into several other representations: word vectors (word encoder), terminal nodes (span vectors, fenceposts), non-terminal nodes (span classifier), parse tree (neural CKY). It's suggested that the mapping from terminals to non-terminals learns what constructions are permitted by the language.

Symbolic linguistic representations are frequently used in computational linguistics.

Other representations in linguistics that are not symbols or measurements include rules and rankings.

title: Symbolic linguistic representation


text:
User:William M. Connolley/Misc refs

Acceleration of global warming due to carbon-cycle feedbacks in a coupled climate model Peter M. Cox1, Richard A. Betts1, Chris D. Jones1, Steven A. Spall1 and Ian J. Totterdell2
The continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide due to anthropogenic emissions is predicted to lead to significant changes in climate1. About half of the current emissions are being absorbed by the ocean and by land ecosystems2, but this absorption is sensitive to climate3, 4 as well as to atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations5, creating a feedback loop. General circulation models have generally excluded the feedback between climate and the biosphere, using static vegetation distributions and CO2 concentrations from simple carbon-cycle models that do not include climate change6. Here we present results from a fully coupled, three-dimensional carbon–climate model, indicating that carbon-cycle feedbacks could significantly accelerate climate change over the twenty-first century. We find that under a 'business as usual' scenario, the terrestrial biosphere acts as an overall carbon sink until about 2050, but turns into a source thereafter. By 2100, the ocean uptake rate of 5 Gt C yr-1 is balanced by the terrestrial carbon source, and atmospheric CO2 concentrations are 250 p.p.m.v. higher in our fully coupled simulation than in uncoupled carbon models2, resulting in a global-mean warming of 5.5 K, as compared to 4 K without the carbon-cycle feedback.

Radiative and solar forcing
==== Philipona R, Durr B, Marty C, Ohmura A, Wild M (2004) Radiative Forcing - Measured At Earth ' S Surface - Corroborate The Increasing Greenhouse Effect. GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS 31 (3): art. no. L03202 FEB 6 2004 ====

The Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change (IPCC) confirmed concentrations of atmospheric greenhouse gases and radiative forcing to increase as a result of human activities. Nevertheless, changes in radiative forcing related to increasing greenhouse gas concentrations could not be experimentally detected at Earth's surface so far. Here we show that atmospheric longwave downward radiation significantly increased (+5.2(2.2) Wm(-2)) partly due to increased cloud amount (+1.0(2.8) Wm(-2)) over eight years of measurements at eight radiation stations distributed over the central Alps. Model calculations show the cloud-free longwave flux increase (+4.2(1.9) Wm(-2)) to be in due proportion with temperature (+0.82(0.41) degreesC) and absolute humidity (+0.21(0.10) g m(-3)) increases, but three times larger than expected from anthropogenic greenhouse gases. However, after subtracting for two thirds of temperature and humidity rises, the increase of cloud-free longwave downward radiation (+1.8(0.8) Wm(-2)) remains statistically significant and demonstrates radiative forcing due to an enhanced greenhouse effect.

J. L. Lean, Y.-M. Wang, and N. R. Sheeley. The effect of increasing solar activity on the Sun's total and open magnetic flux during multiple cycles: Implications for solar forcing of climate
We investigate the relationship between solar irradiance and cosmogenic isotope variations by simulating with a flux transport model the effect of solar activity on the Sun's total and open magnetic flux. As the total amount of magnetic flux deposited in successive cycles increases, the polar fields build up, producing a secular increase in the open flux that controls the interplanetary magnetic field which modulates the cosmic ray flux that produces cosmogenic isotopes. Non-axisymmetric fields at lower latitudes decay on time scales of less than a year; as a result the total magnetic flux at the solar surface, which controls the Sun's irradiance, lacks an upward trend during cycle minima. '''This suggests that secular increases in cosmogenic and geomagnetic proxies of solar activity may not necessarily imply equivalent secular trends in solar irradiance. Questions therefore arise about the interpretation of Sun-climate relationships, which typically assume that the proxies imply radiative forcing.'''

(emphasis mine)

GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 32, L03802, doi:10.1029/2004GL021167, 2005

E. Pallé: Possible satellite perspective effects on the reported correlations between solar activity and clouds
Recently some correlations between low cloud cover and solar activity have been reported in the literature. In this paper we show how the flux of GCR is found to correlate positively with the low clouds and negatively with higher clouds, supporting previous theoretical predictions linking atmospheric ionization by cosmic rays and cloud cover at different altitudes. All these correlations are however only marginally significant and the only strongly significant (negative) correlation is found between low and higher cloud layers. Thus, there is strong evidence that the solar-like variability in low cloud may be artificially induced by the satellite observing perspective.

GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 32, L03802, doi:10.1029/2004GL021167, 2005

Block, A., K. Keuler and E. Schaller (2004), Impacts Of Anthropogenic Heat On Regional Climate Patterns, Geophys . Res . Lett . 31 ( 12 ): Art . No . L12211 Jun 26 2004
Four different simulations of a winter period in Central Europe are carried out to investigate the principle effect of anthropogenic heat release from the highly industrialized and populated Ruhrarea region ( Germany ) on regional climate conditions. The results reveal a permanent warming due to anthropogenic heat emissions over affected areas ranging from 0 .15 K over land area with an additional 2 W m(-2) anthropogenic heat flux up to 0.5 K over the Ruhrarea with additional 20 W m(-2) anthropogenic heat flux. The temperature effects induced by anthropogenic heat not only depend on the amount of added heat but also on orographical factors. No significant variations are found for precipitation.

Zhang, X.Y., M.A. Friedl, C.B. Schaaf, A.H. Strahler and A. Schneider (2004), The Footprint Of Urban Climates On Vegetation Phenology, Geophys . Res . Lett . 31 ( 12 ): Art . No . L12209 Jun 25 2004
Human activity, through changing land use and other activities, is the most fundamental source of environmental change on the Earth. Urbanization and the resultant "urban heat islands" provide a means for evaluating the effect of climate warming on vegetation phenology. Using data from the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer, we analyzed urban-rural differences in vegetation phenological transition dates and land surface temperatures for urban areas larger than 10 km(2) in eastern North America . The results show that the effect of urban climates on vegetation phenology decays exponentially with distance from urban areas with substantial influence up to 10 km beyond the edge of urban land cover, and that the ecological "footprint" of urban climates is about 2.4 times that of urban land use in eastern North America. The net effect is an increase in the growing season by about 15 days in urban areas relative to adjacent unaffected rural areas.

Reconstructing Past Climate from Noisy Data (Hans von Storch, Eduardo Zorita, Julie Jones, Yegor Dimitriev, Fidel Gonzalez-Rouco, Simon Tett
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1096109v1

Empirical reconstructions of the Northern Hemisphere (NH) temperature in the last millennium based on multy proxy records depict small-amplitude variations followed by a clear warming trend in the last two centuries. We use a coupled atmosphere-ocean model simulation of the last 1000 years as a surrogate climate to test the skill of these methods, particularly at multidecadal and centennial timescales. Idealized proxy records are represented by simulated grid-point temperature, degraded with statistical noise. The centennial variability of the NH temperature is underestimated by the regression-based methods applied here, suggesting that past variations may have been at least a factor of two larger than indicated by empirical reconstructions.

Model predictions of spatial var of cl ch, inc polar amplification
==== M. M. Holland and C. M. Bitz, Polar amplification of climate change in coupled models, Climate Dynamics, 2003 (21:221-232) ====

nb: this is a quote from the intro, not the abstract:

Climate model simulations have shown that ice albedo feedbacks associated with variations in snow and sea-ice coverage are a key factor in positive feedback mechanisms which amplify climate change at high northern latitudes (e.g., Manabe and Stouffer 1980). In addition, variations in the thickness of sea-ice tend to reinforce surface atmospheric temperature anomalies by altering the heat and moisture transfer from the ocean to the atmosphere. Clouds respond to tropospheric temperature variations and most studies agree that clouds yield net positive radiative forcing at the surface in high latitudes (e.g., Curry et al. 1996). Hence, an increase in high-latititude cloud cover may also contribute to Northern Hemisphere polar amplification. High-latitude climate sensitivity also depends on changes in heat transported by the atmosphere and/or ocean.

There is agreement among models that the Arctic warms more than subpolar regions when subject to increasing levels of greenhouse gases (GHG) in the atmosphere. In contrast, high southern latitudes exhibit a minimum warming in coupled simulations due to changes in ocean heat uptake (IPCC 2001). At high latitudes in both hemispheres the range of warming across global climate models is considerable, with the range of warming in the Arctic being larger than elsewhere on Earth (IPCC 2001).

Misc
==== A. Tabazadeh, Y. S. Djikaev and H. Reiss: Surface crystallization of supercooled water in clouds, PNAS | December 10, 2002 | vol. 99 | no. 25 | 15873-15878 ====

The process by which liquid cloud droplets homogeneously crystallize into ice is still not well understood. The ice nucleation process based on the standard and classical theory of homogeneous freezing initiates within the interior volume of a cloud droplet. Current experimental data on homogeneous freezing rates of ice in droplets of supercooled water, both in air and emulsion oil samples, show considerable scatter. For example, at –33°C, the reported volume-based freezing rates of ice in supercooled water vary by as many as 5 orders of magnitude, which is well outside the range of measurement uncertainties. Here, we show that the process of ice nucleus formation at the air (or oil)-liquid water interface may help to explain why experimental results on ice nucleation rates yield different results in different ambient phases. Our results also suggest that surface crystallization of ice in cloud droplets can explain why low amounts of supercooled water have been observed in the atmosphere near –40°C.

authors: ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ

title: User:William M. Connolley/Misc refs