text:
Wikipedia talk:Geographical names naming policy (proposed)

Message posted to wikien-l

In the wake of the recent naming policy poll, which was sparked by the debate on Talk:Kiev as well as the poll on the New York City talk page, it cannot be denied that a firm policy needs to be adopted regarding the naming of articles about places.

The current policy at Naming conventions (city names) is neither supported by consensus nor complete enough to handle the variety of problems with these articles' names.

I have drafted a proposed policy on the naming of articles about geographical places. I expect that there are some aspects of it which will be controversial, and some aspects which will be changed, but I have tried to justify the particulars of the policy. It is formulated as a set of principles and rejected principles.

It includes a proposed policy for dealing with disputes about article names, which would work for any kind of article, not just articles about places.

I propose a 4-week discussion and revision period followed by a two week binding voting period with a 70% majority rule. There will be separate votes for each section: "Multiple names", "Ambiguous names", and "Exceptions and naming polls". There will also be a separate vote about whether the naming polls policy shall apply to all articles or just to geographical place articles if it is adopted.

Unless there is strong objection to this voting proposal, the voting period will begin at midnight UTC June 11 and end at midnight UTC June 25.

For discussions about the details of the policy, please discuss on the relevant talk page. You can voice your objections to the voting proposal either here on the list or on the wiki.

I strongly urge that we have congenial discussion and make compromises in the proposed policy so that the vote will succeed, because I believe having a firm policy on naming will go a long way towards reducing the amount of energy expended on naming debates.

Nohat 02:24, 2004 May 11 (UTC)

Hey Nohat. I have some quibbles with the idea that we should start off by disambiguating by largest unit. I don't think there's anything wrong with specific policies for specific countries. I'll give more detailed objections at a later time. john 19:34, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, I have more than a few quibbles, but this is a start. In particular, I strongly object to any policy which uses the Google Test as the primary and binding method of discrimination. older ≠ wiser 19:57, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, I tend to think that in most of the actual discussed cases, the Google test will be inapplicable. I don't think that having a poll in every such case is a good way of settling.  I think there are various problems with the proposal, and I think that, between various proposals, it's highly unlikely to result in a consensus.  I'd also suggest that the question of disambiguation of city names is really not all that related to the question of translation of names, or whatever, and that it's not necessarily productive to combine the two questions.  But I don't know... john 20:15, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I think I largely agree--although these things came to the fore in various forms in the NYC discussion: 1) does the de facto (if not entirely consensual) policy of preemptive disambiguation for US cities take precedence over using the most Common Name and (this is where the Google Test comes in) 2) if the Common Name is preferred, then just how do we definitively establish what that is? I mean, the policy of "Use Common Names" is not much help if there isn't a solid (and consens-based) method for establishing what is the most common name used in the world-wide english-speaking community. Otherwise we are only left with periodic popularity polls (or perhaps that is the best method for the time being). With NYC, the question of what is the most common name was less of an issue, but as you saw, there were many advocates for NY,NY. On a different note, I'm also not terribly fond of the possibility of revisiting contentious votes every six months. I'd much rather see some clear statement of policy which can be used to settle these without the rancor and disruption of periodic votes. older ≠ wiser 20:58, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

 * For the most part, the procedure for choosing geographical names makes sense -- as a set of guidelines. I'm averse to calling someting "policy" when there's a procedure for making exceptions to it, though. We seem to be going on a policy binge lately, and I don't know that it's very helpful. It seems to often just be a tool by which users who are legalists can bludgeon other users who aren't so legalistic without attempting to engage in a cordial discussion first. I'd rather just have guidelines and let people hash things out through thoughtful deliberation, rather than uncritically pointing at rules.

 * I don't think it really matters what we call it as long as people follow it. Also, whether we call it a guideline or a policy or even WikiLaw, people will still argue about its legitimacy. Nohat 15:54, 2004 May 12 (UTC)

 * On a related question, I'm a bit flummoxed by rule no. 4 on the poll procedures: "Votes from users who have not made any edits in the 6 months previous to the re-opening of the poll should be removed. This means if a poll is re-opened immediately after the 6 month waiting period is over, then no votes can be removed." Can someone elucidate this for me? -- Seth Ilys 12:52, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I admit it's a little confusing and needs revision. The main idea is that if you vote for a naming poll once, that vote should stay no matter how many times the poll is re-opened, unless you change or remove it yourself. However, it seemed that people might protest that the votes of users who have left Wikipedia shouldn't count. So I added this clause that says that you can remove votes from a naming poll if the user hasn't made any edits in the previous six months before the poll was opened.

The idea was that if a poll is re-opened immediately after it becomes eligible, then no votes could be removed, but I realize now this dosn't make sense because a poll can only be opened 6 months after the poll has closed, so if any vote in the previous incarnation of the poll was a user's last vote, then it would have occurred more than 6 months in the past, and would therefore be eligible for removal. Maybe it should be changed to be a one-year timeout for missing users. This particular detail is not really important: the point is that, in general, votes in a poll persist, and can only be removed by the voter, or if the voter has left, by someone else, but only if the voter has been gone for a while. Nohat 15:54, 2004 May 12 (UTC)

Conventions are not policy, they are conventions. The only policy we have in regards to conventions is to follow them. Also the comma convention is pretty much a North American thing - few other nations outside the U.S. and Canada use it as often. Cities outside of the U.S. should either:
 * Follow a convention already in wide use and used by English speakers for disambiguating cities in that nation (adding the river name is often done in Europe for disambiguation - other places put the state/province/county in parenthesis when needed)
 * Follow regular rules of disambiguation and thus use parenthesis - DO NOT use commas where they are not already in common use!

Preemptively disambiguating U.S. city names is not about providing context, it is about making a set of articles in the same subject area conform to a standard already in wide use outside of the project. Since U.S. city names are rarely unique, Americans have dealt with this issue by devising a way to name cities. This is so ingrained that the state name in the [City, State] format is almost treated like the last name of the city - even for every major city I can think of except maybe New York (where it does sound a bit odd). Having all U.S. cities in the same format (with the possible exception of the City of New York since New York, New York may not really be correct) prevents any controversy over the name and this format is very widely used preemptively outside of Wikipedia already. So when 99% of a set of things are named in one format, the others come along for the ride (just like ship names). Nobody will get lost due to redirects and disambiguation pages.

The only real issue I see, is that redirected pages have looked rather ugly in MediaWiki ever since Phase III came online (it gives me the feeling that I made some type of error). Phase II had the 'redirected from' message further up on the page. But that is a technical issue that can be fixed. I will bug the developers about this. --mav 06:55, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Mav, the current naming convention doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of preventing controversy, does it? What with all the controversy. So that's not a very good reason. Also, I think you're greatly exaggerating the extent to which the city, state format is used. Certainly it is sometimes used. But the idea that this is the standard way of referring to major cities is, I think, unsustainable. Basically, I don't see why articles on the most important cities in the US should look completely different from articles on world cities everywhere else (except for Canada and, even more bizarrely, Japan). Especially when this is utterly needless, since most of those cities have the city name article already redirecting to the city, state article. At any rate, in what other context do we "pre-emptively disambiguate"? john 07:15, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The controversy you are talking about comes from people who want to overturn the convention. The controversy I'm talking about would be the thousands of individual decisions that would have to be made and debated if the convention did not exist. The [City, State] convention provides a way to name all cities in the U.S. without need to debate just what each city should be named and which ones are "important enough" to be at the [City] (or whatever) format. It gives one answer to the naming question instead of many thousands of individual ones - each needing to be decided separately. 'Very often by out-of-staters' when the state has not already been established as the context would be a better way to characterize the usage of the [City, State] format within the U.S. Having the redirect go to a standardized title (when those standards are in very wide use) hurts no one. See: aircraft (the maker gets appended to the start of the name for almost all modern aircraft), Ships (U.S. Navy ships all get their hull numbers in their titles). -- mav

I like the proposed policy, particularly because it lists common name, the name most commonly used, as the first principle. One of the examples listed, though, Los Angeles, is not currently listed at the most commonly used name, but at a ridiculious name based on current 'policy', which endorses using strange, uncommon names by pre-emptively disambiguating US cities. The biggest improvement the new policy could make would be to list pre-emptive disambiguation of US cities as a rejected policy because that's not what people do, not how people talk, not how people write, not what Wikipedia does with cites eleswhere. And, besides that, it's just plain silly. Pre-emptive disambiguation of US cities is the biggest problem with the current policy. Los Angeles does not need disambiguation any more then Kiev does. Nobody says Los Angeles, California. If L.A. is going to be listed like that, then Paris should be at Paris, France, London at London, England, etc. Common usage: Los Angeles, New Orleans, Chicago, Detroit, Cincinnati, etc. and no amount of rationalization is going to change that, nor make Los Angeles, California look any sillier, nor make titles of the articles on major US cities any less inconsistent with the title of the article on Kiev, for example. Bluelion 08:31, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Nobody says "Los Angeles, California"? You are kidding right? According to Google about 4.7 million webpages do. The mention of non-U.S. cities is completely and totally a strawman since the comma convetion simply is not used in most other places in the world. --mav

I agree, Bluelion. Mav, has there ever been any serious dispute about the names of cities in other parts of the world? I'd also note that I don't think pre-emptively disambiguating small US towns is a bad idea. But for large, basically unambiguous places, it seems worthless. john 16:03, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

 * See above about strawmen. --mav

I for one do not see how anyone can think that Los Angeles, California is a silly title. Also, there is a factor that needs to be brought up. The nearer you are to a place, the less likely it is that you will use a disambiguating qualifier for it. I say "Vienna" and mean "Vienna, Virginia" quite often, because in the Washington metro area, I have more reason to talk about Vienna, Va. than Vienna, Austria. When I say "Baltimore" I don't mean "Baltimore, Ohio" because Baltimore, Md. is relatively close by. A former roommate of mine who came from the Columbus, Ohio area and whose grandmother lived in Baltimore, Ohio, however, often did mean "Baltimore, Ohio" by "Baltimore." This is, I am certain, why Europeans may not understand Americans' saying "Paris, France." My own proposal (except for the fact that it would never be acceptable to most other Wikipedians) would be for all cities to be at [City, State/Province] in the U. S., Canada, or Australia and [City, Country] elsewhere, except where an additional level of disambiguation is necessary, so that [City, County, State/Province] has to be done. -- BRG

 * Ga, Most people who say "Baltimore" mean "Baltimore, Maryland" not because it is close by, but because it is by far the largest city named Baltimore. john 05:04, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * So then why is "Baltimore, Maryland" so common? Could it be that it is used in a way not unlike the full common name of a person? --mav

 * The fact that Baltimore, Maryland is the largest city named Baltimore certainly enters into the discussion. However, my point is that nearness also does. My friend/ex-roommate demonstrated that when one is near enough to another place named Baltimore, that trumps size. There are at least three factors that enter into the discussion: (1) size, (2) proximity, and (3) context. Somewhere, I think you indicated that you live in Montgomery County, Maryland (as do I). How often, when you say "Rockville," do you mean any place other than our county seat? Yet, years ago, when my father, who had a job in the vicinity of Hartford, said "Rockville," he meant a similarly named place in Connecticut. Now, Rockville, Connecticut has a population of under 8000; Rockville, Maryland is over 6 times as big. But my father probably never even heard of Rockville, Maryland; his familiarity with Rockville, Conn. was far greater. On the other hand, how often do you speak of "Wheaton" and mean anything other than the place in Maryland? Since Wheaton, Illinois is rather larger, is a county seat, and is an incorporated city (which Wheaton, Md. is not), it is clear that you can't give any reason other than proximity for the fact that, I'm certain, you never say "Wheaton" and mean any place other than the one in Maryland. -- BRG 14:28, May 14, 2004 (UTC)

 * I read at Naming conventions (city names): "Convention: In general, there are no special naming conventions for cities..." But it's not true. There seems to be a very special convention that is being applied only to certain cities (those in the US and Canada) and not to other cities. The title Los Angeles, California is silly in light of the way other articles are named, which is by most common English language usage. I suspect that the policy of imposed disambiguation for US cities is as much a source of controversy as a means of avoiding it. If the Paris article were at Paris, France and the London article at London, England, that would at least be consistent for cities, even if not consistent with a more general policy of naming articles based on common usage. The problem is that the special convention for US cities is not consistent with the general convention for all of Wikipedia. It's not even consistent with the convention used for other cities. Bluelion 22:18, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

 * See above about strawmen. The comma convention is rarely applied to non-US cities outside the US. --mav

Yes, exactly. john 05:04, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * That "... the special convention for US cities is not consistent with the general convention for all of Wikipedia. It's not even consistent with the convention used for other cities" may be true. But in my case, I simply think that perhaps "the convention used for other cities" needs to be changed, not the convention for US (and, btw, Canadian) cities. I think that for cities, the most common way to refer to a city (or town, or unincorporated CDP) depends on where you are. In my normal usage, talking to local people, "Vienna" means "Vienna, Virginia," not "Vienna, Austria," most of the time, except when context points the other way (like if I was talking about Strauss waltzes). I think we need a rule that if a name like "Vienna" could, in any reasonable context, be understood as being a place other than the largest place of that name, then it must certainly be a disambiguation page and the place best known by that name might be specially indicated on that page, but the main article on it should have a disambiguated title. -- BRG 14:37, May 14, 2004 (UTC)

BRG, your (unlikely-to-be-consensed-upon) proposal begins to really grab a hold of me. At least I'm now convinced that [City] in the case of ambiguous names should always be a disambiguation page, however famous one of the cities are. (Yes, that is Paris, France and Vienna, Vienna to you.) And if that disambiguation were to always be made pre-emptively – if only for the sake of worldwide consistency –, I for one wouldn't mind much. Worse things could happen to me than being removed to a city named Linköping, Sweden. =) -- Jao 15:22, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The comma convention is un-natural when applied to non-US/Canadian cities. --mav

 * Thanks. Though did you mean "Vienna, Vienna"? Or "Vienna, Austria"? -- BRG 19:00, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * I think the merit of this system would be that it's valid everywhere. So if you have Los Angeles, California – City, State – in one federation, you should really follow the same format in all federations, hence Vienna, Vienna. (Another thing with countries that are not federations, of course, thence the French and Swedish examples.) -- Jao 19:10, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

But why on earth should we do that? The comma isn't even used most places, and it looks ridiculous, and all for no reason at all. We absolutely don't need a rule where simply because in some reasonable context, it might be understood to mean something different (which is a much more accurate description of the Vienna case), that we need to disambiguate. If I have a friend named Tony Blair, it would be reasonable among me and his other friends to mean him when we're talking about Tony Blair. That doesn't mean we need to have a disambiguation. The argument you're making isn't an argument at all - it's entirely circular, and based on the premise that Wikipedia has no right to make judgments about whether one usage is better known than another. I think that's false - no matter how we do it, we are making a POV judgment, and we may as well make the one that leads to the simplest article titles. john 16:17, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

 * It is used very commonly in the U.S. But I agree to not extend that to other places. --mav

 * "Simplest article titles" is not a valid reason to use your criterion, John. The point is that Wikipedia will be used by many people whose experiences are bound to be different. Case in point, not involving a geographical name: A while ago I noticed in the "list of disambiguation pages" the name Don Cherry. I knew of only one, a singer and professional golfer. So I was curious to see who else there was. I found two names, neither being the Don Cherry I had heard of. (I wrote the Don Cherry (singer/golf) article as a result!) This is why I feel that even if article names are somewhat longer under my plan, they are more useful. If someone had only heard of the one big city of Detroit, he might under my plan get put on a disambiguation page when he didn't expect to, but with one more click, he'd get to Detroit, Michigan. (Really, I have no problem with, and would even recommend, putting on the disambiguation page a notation that the biggest, most frequently-cited, Detroit is the one in Michigan!) OTOH, when sone misguided Wikipedian writes an article in which (because the context led him to forget about the big one) he made his link point to "Philadelphia" when he meant "Philadelphia, Mississippi" (say, in an article on the Goodman-Schwerner-Cheney murders) someone hitting the link would also be sent to a disambiguation page from which one click gets him to the right page, rather than to a page on Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, from which he has a devil of a time getting to the right place. -- BRG 18:55, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * And this isn't a circular argument. It's based on the premise that we never can be sure what background a Wikipedia reader is bringing to his search. -- BRG 18:57, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

Well, since you can never be sure, use ZIP codes. Ignore common usage in a misguided attempt to make Wikipedia idiot proof. Lots of luck with that! Bluelion 19:31, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * BRG--I can't believe you want to make things more difficult for the vast majority of users in order to accomodate a small number of cases that should use a properly disambiguated link. Also if you were to acutally have looked at the Philadelphia page, you would have noticed a link prominently placed at the top to alternate uses -- now is that really what you call "a devil of a time getting to the right place"? older ≠ wiser 19:42, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I just looked there. First from "Philadelphia" you get to click once to get to "Philadelphia (disambiguation)," and then yet another click to get to the specific Philadephia you want. Under my plan, "Philadelphia" would contain the page that now is found at "Philadelphia (disambiguation)," and only one click gets you to the right one, whether you want the one in Pennsylvania or the one in Mississippi. That seems to be more NPOV, for one, as well as easier for people. I assume most people know that the big Philadelphia is the one in Pennsylvania and would go to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania anyway, even though someone here claimed he did not know Detroit was in Michigan... which I find hard to believe. -- BRG 14:48, May 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * While your approach may result in one less click for the extremely small minority of references to Philadelphia that are NOT for the one in PA, it results in a completely unnecessary (and annoying) extra click for the vast majority of references that are for the one in PA. Anyone making a link to one of the Philadelphias not in PA should realize that they need to properly disambiguate the link--if the small number of links that are not to Philly, PA are properly disambiguated in the first place, then everyone is happy. Well, except for those using the Search box -- but IMO there's not much to be done for that case. Re Detroit and Michigan -- for people outside of the U.S., there is, in general, much less familiarity with states than with important cities. older ≠ wiser 15:19, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The proposal of BRG seems to equate with Encyclopædia Britannica which lists the Mississippi city before the Pennsylvania city for alphabetical reasons. Also, Encyclopedia.com lists 'ancient cities' before the Pennsylvania city, I believe for the same reason. P æ dia 17:34, 2004 May 18 (UTC)

 * It does nothing of the sort. Alphabetizing is completely different from what's going on here. john 18:13, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Perhaps I was not clear. Encyclopædia Britannica is not preferential with Philadelphia, and is preceded by former name of Amman. P æ dia 13:25, 2004 May 20 (UTC)

 * I understand. But the situations are not analogous.  Britannica s able to have a whole series of articles called "Philadelphia" john 16:09, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia is currently preferential with Philadelphia. Why are the situations not analogous? We also can have 'whole series of articles'; we just disambiguate differently. P æ dia 18:42, 2004 May 25 (UTC)

 * Britannica doesn't have articles on every U.S. city. We are almost there. That forms a database with nearly all pages in the same format. --mav

 * I didn't know Detroit was in Michigan. Nor did I know that Philadelphia was in Pennsylvania. As they're always called simply "Detroit" and "Philadelphia" outside the US I see no reason why I would know what state they're in. I doubt many Americans could say which county most British cities are in. Proteus (Talk) 15:28, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

 * And yet following Detroit gets you to the article. You don't have to know. --mav

I can believe that the advocates of enforced unnecessary disambiguation want to make things as difficult as possible, because that's what they are doing. On what planet does Philadelphia need disambiguation? Bluelion 19:59, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Not disambiguation - making that city's title conform to a very widely used convention in the U.S. --mav

Surely even people from Mississippi would know that the Philadelphia in Pennsylvania was a more notable city, and assume that the one on their philadelphia would be at Philadelphia, Mississippi. Certainly that's my feeling on Vienna. And if not, the disambiguation notice at the top should do the trick, as Bkonrad says. This is utterly silly. john 20:10, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * A disambig block at the top of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania will play the same role - just like at Napoleon I of France (which, BTW, also is a name that follows a standard convention in spite of common useage). --mav

It's worse than I thought. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is being disambiguated. That's beyond ridiculous, bordering on the obscene. Bluelion 20:17, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, but the unqualified Philadelphia automatically redirects to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Much of the recent discussion has centered on precisely this point -- the unqualified titles for many of the large cities ALREADY automatically redirect to the state-qualified titles. Some of us feel this is evidence that it is not necessary to include the state in the title. I agree with this position, but I can live with leaving things as they are (except NY,NY just looks peculiar)--but I would very strongly object to BRG's suggestion that the main page for ALL places with common names be a disambiguation page. older ≠ wiser 20:38, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * What looks peculiar is having 99% of U.S. city articles in one format, and the other 1% in another. "Philadelphia, Pennsylvania" gets 4,660,000 hits on Google - hardly peculiar. -- mav

peculiar adj 1: beyond or deviating from the usual or expected; "a curious           hybrid accent"; "her speech has a funny twang"; "they            have some funny ideas about war"; "had an odd name"; "the peculiar aromatic odor of cloves"; "something           definitely queer about this town"; "what a rum            fellow"; "singular behavior" [syn: curious, funny, odd, queer, rum, rummy, singular]

 * When 99% of a set of articles are in one format, then how is it unusual or unexpected for the rest to be in the same format? --mav

"Some of us feel this is evidence that it is not necessary to include the state in the title." You can inculde me in that group. Bluelion 20:52, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * We do the same thing for modern Kings - they all get the 'of' titles, even the rare ones that have unique names. Consistency is a virtue. --mav

 * I've never heard anyone refer to Vienna, Austria, let alone the downright confusing Vienna, Vienna. If I was making a link to the capital of Austria, I would make it to Vienna without thinking somebody might have so counter-intuitively placed it elsewhere.  Of course, if there's a village near you called Vienna, you will just refer to it as "Vienna" in everyday conversation with locals, but if anyone from another part of the world referred to Vienna, you'd know exactly where they meant without any further explanation.  Cities which are by far the best-known one with their names should have undisambiguated names, or at the very least redirects from them.

 * "I've never heard anyone refer to Vienna, Austria"??? Gee, your experience is very different from mine, as not only do I refer to it that way quite often, I see and hear it all the time. -- BRG 14:32, May 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * Are you American? Americans are very used to referring to cities that way and often carry that over to non-U.S. cities. --mav

 * Gee, well I guess that's why usage conventions shouldn't be based only on one person's experience. older ≠ wiser 15:19, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Exactly. Since "usage conventions shouldn't be based only on one person's experience," we need to follow a convention that makes just as much sense if the "Vienna" that is most familiar to you is the one in Virginia as to the majority, who think automatically of the place in Austria! -- BRG 13:39, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh, stop being absurd. Practically every topic in Wikipedia would need to be disambiguated under your reasoning, as it'd be very difficult to find a term that meant one thing to every single person in the world. I mean, we'd have to have Italy (country) or Italy, Europe for the benefit of those living near Italy, Texas, and that's clearly ridiculous. Proteus (Talk) 14:57, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

 * How is Vienna, Vienna any bit more confusing than, for instance, New York, New York or Kyoto, Kyoto? -- Jao 19:51, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

 * "Vienna, Vienna" 93,500 hits, "Kyoto, Kyoto" 22,400 hits, "New York, New York" 3,300,000 hits. Obviously the first two are confusing and the third is rather common. --mav

 * Err...I think most of us would say that Vienna, New York City, and Kyoto all ought to be the locations. The Japanese prefecture rule seems particularly ridiculous, I'd add - this is clearly a type of disambiguation that should only be used when necessary - are there any other cities in the world named Kyoto, even?  There is no Kyoto (disambiguation), and there is no real confusion with the prefecture, which is located at Kyoto prefecture. john k 20:09, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I actually agree with that statement and have seen no evidence to suggest that the comma convention is at all common for naming Japanese cities. --mav

 * A second point: starting with the largest unit for federations. General consensus has emerged on places in the UK needing disambiguation that they are disambiguated by county, not by nation.  I'd not object to the idea in principle, but it would mean a lot of work for whoever was moving all the articles. Warofdreams 17:22, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Each nation to its own I say. What works for the UK may not work for other nations. What works for the US may not work for other nations. --mav 07:39, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Trying to Refocus the Discussion
I'd like to propose some changes to Nohat's proposal. Because if we're going to vote on changing the current naming policies, I'd like to actually vote for changing the current naming policies, and I do not feel that I could support Nohat's current proposal. At the moment, I'd like to focus on the "ambiguous names" part of Nohat's proposal. So:

1) Principle: disambiguation by largest unambiguous enclosing political entity. I strongly reject this principle. Relatedly, I disagree with Nohat's views at Rejected principle: disambiguation by country-specific entity level.  I don't see how using country-specific standards for disambiguation is harmful, and the idea that it "creates inequality in article naming from country to country" is just silly - it is more respectful to each country to use the form of disambiguation commonly used in that country.  For instance, in Germany we should not have Frankfurt, Hesse and Frankfurt, Brandenburg, but Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder.  The whole problem with the current naming system for US cities is that it needlessly imposes a "one size fits all" policy. I think this problem also afflicts Nohat's proposal in its current form.

2) Rejected principle: non well-known names should be preemptively disambiguated I think that for very small places that nobody will have heard of a) it frequently becomes hard to say if the name is actually unique or not; and b) it provides useful context to the reader.  I see nothing wrong with having somewhat unnecessary disambiguation at, say, Garrett Park, Maryland.

As far as the other parts of Nohat's proposal, I agree with what others have said that I am wary of constant naming polls. But I'll reserve judgment on proposing changes. I await your comments. john 16:44, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I actually agree with John regarding the comment he made about Frankfurt: here, in fact, the Germans have a traditional way to disambiguate the two, and it serves well. But within the USA, and I believe in Canada and Australia, the state (province in Canada) is the normal and traditional way. I think our disagreement is not on how to disambiguate, but when --- I feel just about always, John seems to think not in many cases where I would. -- BRG 17:38, May 24, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, this would seem to be the case. I tend to think Nohat's formulation is rather too rigid, and would likely result in at least a few article titles as ridiculous as the current ones I've been objecting to. As to the broader question, I'd be interested to know if you think that everything should be disambiguated if there's any chance of confusion. If not, could you explain why such a rule should apply to city names, but not to other things? john k 20:09, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm more concerned with city names, because I've been writing a lot of city name disambiguation pages. But I certainly do think that "everything should be disambiguated if there's" a reasonable "chance of confusion." Not any, though. -- BRG 14:54, May 25, 2004 (UTC)

One point I want to make
If this thing should ever get to a vote, I think that whenever there are alternative policy proposals, something like approval voting ought to be used. I don't want to be put into a position where I really like one proposal, but can't vote for it because it would hurt the chances for a plan I don't like as much that has more chance of carrying. -- BRG 14:59, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

Whatever happened to this?
Whatever happened to this? The debate seems to have simply disappeared. The original proponent has not posted very much since mid-May, but I think some sort of conclusion to this issue is in order. It was originally proposed that voting begin several days ago, but I don't think we're at that point. Is anybody still interested in this? john k 00:22, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, if something isn't done, then we'll be stuck with City of New York forever, which obviously isn't a good thing. I'd be happy to continue the debate. (I haven't been online much recently because of my exams, but they're over now and long holidays await.) Proteus (Talk) 09:43, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Looks as though everybody just ran out of steam... although, considering how heated the discussion was getting, the break could be quite a blessing. - jredmond 01:45, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

From near the top of this page: "The current policy at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (city names) is neither supported by consensus nor complete enough to handle the variety of problems with these articles' names." Word. Bluelion 07:41, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Proteus: Well, if something isn't done, then we'll be stuck with City of New York forever... Well, unfortunately, we may stuck with a number of silly article names because they already exist. In the meantime, some of the consequences of the current policy are pretty amusing.

At the top of the New York City article is a note: "This article is about New York City. For other uses, see New York, New York (disambiguation)". If that isn't funny, I don't know what is. When there's a disambiguation page for New York, New York, something is seriously wrong.

If I'm reading things right, there was a vote on what the New York article should be named, and "City of New York" wasn't even one of the options. Are we sure that whoever moved the page to "City of New York" wasn't engaging in some good-natured satire?

If so, I applaud it. The current policy at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (city names) doesn't come close to addressing the real issues regarding the naming of articles on cities in the US. It's a bankrupt policy. There are so many problems with current policy that it's difficult to know where to begin. It ignores the real issues and, in many cases, it's misleading.

My guess as to Whatever happened to this? is that people got tired of trying to fight city hall. Bluelion 08:31, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia archives?
In what sense has this page been "superseded?" It never went anywhere, but the underlying issue is exactly where it was a year ago. john k 18:05, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Naming conventions (geographic names), Category:Wikipedia naming conventions. - Io Katai (talk) 05:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


text:
Negro American League

The Negro American League was one of the several Negro leagues created during the time organized American baseball was segregated. The league was established in 1937, and disbanded after its 1962 season.

Negro American League franchises

 * ''Annual final standings: 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948

 * Birmingham Black Barons (1937–1938; 1940–1962)
 * Chicago American Giants (1937–1952)
 * Cincinnati Tigers (1937)
 * Detroit Stars (III) (1937)
 * Indianapolis Athletics (1937)
 * Kansas City Monarchs (1937–1962)
 * Memphis Red Sox (1937–1959)
 * St. Louis Stars (II) (1937)
 * Atlanta Black Crackers (1938) / Indianapolis ABCs (IV) (1939)
 * Jacksonville Red Caps (1938; 1941–1942) / Cleveland Bears (1939–1940)
 * Indianapolis ABCs (III) (1938) / St. Louis Stars (III) (1939) / St. Louis–New Orleans Stars (1940–1941)
 * Toledo Crawfords (1939) / Toledo–Indianapolis Crawfords (1940)
 * Cincinnati–Cleveland Buckeyes (1942) / Cleveland Buckeyes (1943–1948; 1950) / Louisville Buckeyes (1949)
 * Cincinnati Clowns (1943) / Cincinnati–Indianapolis Clowns (1944–1945) / Indianapolis Clowns (1946–1954)
 * Baltimore Elite Giants (1949–1951) from the Negro National League
 * Houston Eagles (formerly Newark Eagles) (1949–1950) / New Orleans Eagles (1951) from the Negro National League
 * New York Cubans (1949–1950) from the Negro National League
 * Philadelphia Stars (1949–1952) from the Negro National League
 * Detroit Stars (1954–1957; 1959) / Detroit Clowns (1958) / Detroit–New Orleans Stars (1960)
 * Louisville Clippers (1954)
 * Raleigh Tigers (1959–1962)
 * New Orleans Crescent Stars (1957)
 * Mobile Havana Cuban Giants (1957)
 * Newark Indians (1959)

Member timeline
Major league to 1948; minor league from 1949.

 * 1937: Formation of NAL consisting of 8 teams — Birmingham Black Barons, Chicago American Giants, Cincinnati Tigers, Detroit Stars (III), Indianapolis Athletics, Kansas City Monarchs, Memphis Red Sox and St. Louis Stars (II).
 * 1938: Dropped Cincinnati Tigers, Detroit Stars (III), Indianapolis Athletics and St. Louis Stars (II); Added Atlanta Black Crackers, Indianapolis ABCs (II) and Jacksonville Red Caps.
 * 1939: Dropped Birmingham Black Barons; Added Toledo Crawfords.
 * 1940: Dropped Indianapolis ABCs (IV); Re-added Birmingham Black Barons.
 * 1941: Dropped Indianapolis Crawfords.
 * 1942: Dropped St. Louis–New Orleans Stars (merged with New York Black Yankees); Added Cincinnati-Cleveland Buckeyes.
 * 1943: Dropped Jacksonville Red Caps; Added Cincinnati Clowns.
 * 1948: Standings and statistics were lightly reported in print starting around 1948.
 * 1951: Indianapolis Clowns relocate to Buffalo, New York but retain the Indianapolis Clowns name.

Pennant winners
From 1939 through 1942 and 1944 through 1947, the team in first place at the end of the season was declared the Pennant winner. Due to the unorthodox nature of the schedule (and little incentive to enforce it), some teams frequently played many more games than others did in any given season. For example, the 1937 season featured Kansas City being first place with a 52–19–1 record (.732). However, they still competed in a Championship Series, albeit against the third place team in the Chicago American Giants (36–24–1), who played fewer games than the 2nd place Cincinnati Tigers (35–18–1) but had one more win.

This led to some disputed championships and two teams claiming the title. Generally, the team with the best winning percentage (with some minimum number of games played) was awarded the Pennant, but other times it was the team with the most victories. The "games behind" method of recording standings was uncommon in most black leagues. From 1942 until 1948, the pennant winner (as determined by record or by postseason series victory) went on to the Negro World Series.

{{legend|#d0e7ff|Pennant awarded by victory in the Championship Series}}

Post-integration champions

 * 1949 Baltimore Elite Giants
 * 1950 Indianapolis Clowns
 * 1951 Indianapolis Clowns
 * 1952 Indianapolis Clowns
 * 1953 Kansas City Monarchs
 * 1954 Indianapolis Clowns
 * 1955 Birmingham Black Barons (first half); Detroit Stars (second half)†
 * 1956 Detroit Stars
 * 1957 Kansas City Monarchs

† – Pennant was decided via a split-season schedule with the winner of the first half of the season playing the winner of the second half of the season.

League play-offs
On numerous occasions, the NAL split the season into two halves. The winner of the first half played the winner of the second half for the league Pennant. As mentioned above, disputes also occurred in the split season finishes. Five times a League Championship Series was played, with varying games needed to win the Series; the 1938 series ended prematurely because of problems with finding a suitable venue for the rest of the series.

 * Legend
 * One game finished in a tied game.

Negro World Series
For the duration of the league, a Negro World Series took place seven times, from 1942 through 1948. The NAL Pennant winner met the champion of the rival Negro National League. Five out of the seven years, the Negro American League team (below in bold) succumbed.

 * 1942 – Kansas City Monarchs beat Washington Homestead Grays, 4 games to 0 games
 * 1943 – Washington Homestead Grays beat Birmingham Black Barons, 4 games to 3 games
 * 1944 – Washington Homestead Grays beat Birmingham Black Barons, 4 games to 1 game
 * 1945 – Cleveland Buckeyes beat Washington Homestead Grays, 4 games to 0 games
 * 1946 – Newark Eagles beat Kansas City Monarchs, 4 games to 3 games
 * 1947 – New York Cubans beat Cleveland Buckeyes, 4 games to 1 game
 * 1948 – Washington Homestead Grays beat Birmingham Black Barons, 4 games to 1 game

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Negro American League


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Lyceum Conspiracy

This is all strange nonsense, using pictures of the late Chechen president and unrelated external links, with other strange names spliced in. No factual basis--Beelzebubs 02:30, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * It got speedy deleted, I'm going to remove it from the VfD page. --Ben Brockert 02:57, May 11, 2004 (UTC)


text:
Eastern Colored League

The Mutual Association of Eastern Colored Clubs, more commonly known as the Eastern Colored League (ECL), was one of the several Negro leagues, which operated during the time organized baseball was segregated.

Founding
The ECL was founded in 1923 when the Philadelphia-area Hilldale Club and the Bacharach Giants of Atlantic City, both associate members of the midwest-based Negro National League (NNL), broke with the NNL and allied with the white promoter Nat Strong to form an east coast league. The charter members were: Hilldale, the Bacharach Giants, the Brooklyn Royal Giants, the Cuban Stars (East), the Lincoln Giants of New York, and the Baltimore Black Sox. In 1924 the Harrisburg Giants and Washington Potomacs joined, bringing the circuit to eight clubs. The ECL raided the NNL for players, including Hall of Famers Oscar Charleston, Biz Mackey, and John Henry Lloyd, starting a war that lasted for two years.

In 1925 the Washington Potomacs moved to Wilmington, Delaware, but still disbanded in July. Their 1926 replacement, the Newark Stars, folded after only 11 games.

Uneasy peace
At the end of the 1924 season the two leagues made peace and arranged for a Colored World Series between their champions. This series was played each year from 1924 through 1927. The only ECL club to win the World Series was Hilldale in 1925.

Demise
Beginning in 1927 the league was wracked by dissension between club owners. New York's Lincoln Giants dropped out for that season. They returned the next, but then Hilldale, the Brooklyn Royal Giants, and the Harrisburg Giants all dropped out. The Philadelphia Tigers were recruited to bring the league up to five teams for 1928. The ECL staggered through May, but finally disbanded in the midst of disputes over player contracts at the beginning of June.

ECL franchises

 * Annual final standings: 1923, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928

 * Atlantic City Bacharach Giants (1923–1928)
 * Baltimore Black Sox (1923–1928)
 * Brooklyn Royal Giants (1923–1928)
 * Cuban Stars (East) (1923–1928)
 * Hilldale of Darby, Pennsylvania (1923–1927)
 * New York Lincoln Giants (1923–1928)
 * Harrisburg Giants (1924–1927)
 * Washington/Wilmington Potomacs (1924–1925)
 * Newark Stars (1926)
 * Philadelphia Tigers (1928)

Member timeline

 * 1923: Formation of ECL consisting of 6 teams — Hilldale, Cuban Stars, Brooklyn Royal Giants, Atlantic City Bacharach Giants, New York Lincoln Giants and Baltimore Black Sox
 * 1924: Added Harrisburg Giants and Washington/Wilmington Potomacs.
 * 1926: Dropped Washington/Wilmington Potomacs; Added Newark Stars.
 * 1927: Dropped Newark Stars.
 * 1928: Dropped Harrisburg Giants; Added Homestead Grays. The league broke up midway through the season due to the breakdown of the founder (and manager of Hilldale) although the individual teams continued to play.

Pennant Winners
The team in first place at the end of the season was declared the Pennant winner. Due to the unorthodox nature of the schedule (and little incentive to enforce it), some teams frequently played many more games than others did in any given season. This led to some disputed championships and two teams claiming the title. Generally, the team with the best winning percentage (with some minimum number of games played) was awarded the Pennant, but other times it was the team with the most victories. The "games behind" method of recording standings was uncommon in most black leagues. Four of the five pennant winners went on to play in the Negro World Series (all except for the first in 1923).

Colored World Series
For the duration of the league, a Colored World Series took place four times, from 1924 through 1927. The ECL Pennant winner met the champion of the rival Negro National League. Three out of the four years, the Eastern Colored League team (below in bold) succumbed.

 * 1924 – Kansas City Monarchs beat Hilldale Club, 5 games to 4 games (1 tie)
 * 1925 – Hilldale Club beat Kansas City Monarchs, 5 games to 1 game
 * 1926 – Chicago American Giants beat Atlantic City Bacharach Giants, 5 games to 4 games (2 ties)
 * 1927 – Chicago American Giants beat Atlantic City Bacharach Giants, 5 games to 3 games (1 tie)

title: Eastern Colored League


text:
Talk:Stephen I, Ban of Bosnia

Untitled
Please, do not put "allegedly" to something that's proven and obvious - Kotroman couldn't've been anything else from a Roman Catholic Christian. --HolyRomanEmperor 18:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Could you...
...provide a valuable reason why the Bosniak history category belongs here? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Are you pretending to be a dumb or what, because I answered to this question for n-th times? Bosniak history is history related to Bosnia, and Stjepan I was a Bosnian ban, a ruler of Bosnia. Bosniak identify themselves with Bosnia. Is it so hard to understand? Why did you put History of Serbs cathegory, when Stjepan I was not a Serb?--Emir Arven 20:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Let me remind you about your forgery again:

 * Serb sources are mostly based on mythology and nationalism. That is just a pure fact. Wikipedia is not a place for collecting fairy tales. I have seen that you represent yourself as a historian. I dont believe you. Maybe you are a historian, but a bad one. Because historian should know the difference between facts and anachronism or between facts and stories or facts and nationalism. You go from article to article and put the term "Serb" where it should be and where it shouldnt be. You talked about Stjepan's chart, but just about the last sentece, added by some scribe. Why? Because you wanted to show or tried to connect Serb language with a script called by that scribe "Serb script" (That kind of script didnt even exist). The source that you presented is Serb nationalistic site, that support war criminals. It says that Draza Mihajlovic, was a WWII hero. Draža Mihailović was sentenced as a war criminal and was executed in former Yugoslavia for crimes that he commited in eastern Bosnia. He was nazi supporter and collaborator. This site also supports Slobodan Milosevic, accuesed for genocide. This site was even quoted by Slobodan Milosevic during the trial. This is not serious source. Also you are the one that put V. Corovic book as a source, and told us that that book supported your theses. When I checked it I found that you lied. Can you tell me why, my dear friend? So tell me how possible could I believe you anymore? --Emir Arven 20:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Your second paragraph is just a reminder of what you do - now you continue to spread propaganda and harsh words like "Serb sources are mostly based on mythology and nationalism. That is just a pure fact." The source I presented maybe a Serb nationalist source in the eyes of some - who are most propably nationalists themselves. I tend to read everything and judge it over the course of time, not just discard something, simply because it wasn't written by a member of my nationality.

 * I fail to see your concept. Please re-read what you stated: "Bosniak history is history related to Bosnia, and Stjepan I was a Bosnian ban, a ruler of Bosnia. Bosniak identify themselves with Bosnia. Is it so hard to understand?" Very interesting logic... Let me use a comparison: "Serbian history is related to Serbia, and Murad I was a Serbian Monarch, a ruler of Serbia." The logic is invalid.

 * No, that logic is not invalid, you are not here to judge, because Bosniaks have other sense and understanding of identity/nation then Serbs. --Emir Arven 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * What you fail to understand is that Stjepan I wasn't a Serb - or a Bosniak. Attaching nationalities to Medieval figures has always been - and will always be - highly errorous. Please read what I wise Bosniak wikipedian once said: User_talk:HolyRomanEmperor/Archive5. I put the categories Croatian history and History of the Serbs because he was a Croatian and Serbian vassal. That's exactly why I'm now adding the Hungarian history category as well.

 * Then it is not History of Serbs, because he was not a Serb as you said.--Emir Arven 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * And lastly - you have also broken yet another of Wikipedia's policies: NPA several lines to the up. --HolyRomanEmperor 19:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant: WP:PA. Additionally, you have completly misunderstood the policty Vandalism and its factual meaning as statet in that edit summary of yours. --HolyRomanEmperor 19:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

 * You are too bureaucratic, and you missed the point. --Emir Arven 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

A suggestion
Regardless of what Stephen I's ethnicity was (and bearing in mind that ethnicity then is really not the same concept as it is now), would it be fair to say that his actions affected both Serb and Bosniak regions?

And thus, we can include this article in both "Bosniak history" and "Serb history". And the only reason "Bosniak" comes before "Serb" is because of alphabetical order.

I know this won't settle everything, but I'd like to think that it will help a little bit. DS 21:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree, but the problem is that HolyRoman keeps removing Bosniak history category and put History of Serbs category, where it should be and where it shouldnt be.--Emir Arven 20:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * That's what I've been trying to say - however, I will put the old out-of-date Category:History of Serbia in this place. Is that sufficient for a compromise?

To Emir Arven:

Could you please stop spreading nationalistic propaganda against me, the Serbs and "all your enemies"? You remind me of Vojislav Seselj who calls everyone standing in front of his way "Ustasas". Also, please stop spreading false accusations. --HolyRomanEmperor 15:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

To HolyRomanEmperor:

I just wrote what you told us all here. And you told us that in Vladimir Corovic book is a source for you thesis that Stjepan was a Serb Orthodox?! That was false, I checked it, and everyone can check it for him/herself. So my dear friend, that was not spreading propaganda against you, that was just a simple truth.--Emir Arven 20:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * This is exactly what I mean when I say your propaganda against me - it was verified in a source - and I did not tell anyone that it was said in Vladimir's book - nor there ever was my thesis in anything, good friend. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 22:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes you did. Here is your lie my dear friend. Nothing can be hidden.  As you can see the source was (Istorija srpskog naroda/History of Serb people, by Vladimir Ćorović), and HRE was so self-confident that he said: this is a proof that you don't even care one bit about this article; if you did, you would've read it and noticed the source;. So I checked it and found that you lied in order to prove Stjepan's mother wishes?!. --Emir Arven 23:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was saying - I was sourcing nearly half of the article, and reacted to your removal of the valid source. On the other hand, you responded with "Serb nationalist vladimir Corovic... that book is crap". And indeed I was right - the only thing that mattered to you is the ethnicity of the writer - not its contents. However, this should be discussed elswhere - as it's not the subject. --HolyRomanEmperor 12:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

His name
WAs not Stjepan or Stefan. His name was Stipan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.238.12 (talk) 18:12, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stephen I, Ban of Bosnia


text:
Talk:Lori Piestewa

What year was she born?
"Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa (December 14, 1980 - March 2003) was an Army soldier who was killed during the same Iraqi Army attack in which her friend Jessica Lynch was injured. She was 23 years old."

Now, if she really was born on December 14, 1980, then she would have had her twenty-second birthday on December 14, 2002, which meant that in the May of 2003 she'd be 22. If she really was 23 years old, then she'd have to have been born in 1979, instead of 1980. Assuming the December birthday at least is correct, that is. ..

Does anyone know Lori Piestewa's real birthdate? Wiwaxia 02:38, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Social Security Death Index gives her DOB as 14 Dec 1979. Corrected main article.--Wurmis 21:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Mother's maiden name
Does anybody have Priscilla "Percy" Piestewa's maiden name? It wasn't Piestewa, too, was it?--Methychroma 23:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Looks like it was "Baca." Badagnani 23:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I went over the page cited and I don't see the reference.--Methychroma 23:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I did not add a source for "Baca." See this search for evidence of "Baca." Badagnani 23:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I went ahead and put that in.--Methychroma 00:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Navigator?
Lori was driving the lead Humvee. Was she navigating? If so, it was her responsibility that the convoy got lost. Shouldn't this have an effect on her being treated as a heroine? If she wasn't navigating, that should be stated so as to clear her of culpability.203.184.41.226 (talk) 05:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

 * I agree this information should certainly be included in the article as it's extremely relevant to her history. This line is contained in Jessica Lynch's article- "On March 23, 2003, a convoy [...] led by a Humvee driven by Lori Piestewa, made a wrong turn and were ambushed near Nasiriyah, a major crossing point over the Euphrates northwest of Basra." This seems to indicate Piestewa was leading the entire convoy although the source document (http://www.sftt.us/PDF/article07102003a.pdf#prof) appears to no longer be available. Although reading the story as it is written here (http://www.oshadavidson.com/Piestewa2.htm) it seems that the convoy was being led by Capt. Troy King (which makes more sense than a PFC leading a convoy), that after 50 hours with no sleep he had mistakenly already driven all the way through the city of Nasiriyah under heightened tension in view of AK-47 wielding men before deciding the convoy was too far east and that they would have to re-trace their route through Nasiriyah, where they were eventually ambushed. 24.76.164.79 (talk) 02:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Lori Piestewa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20050215222642/http://indiancountry.com:80/content.cfm?id=1096404030 to http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096404030
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080408231721/http://www.army.mil/features/507thMaintCmpy/ to http://www.army.mil/features/507thMaintCmpy/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 13:36, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Lori Piestewa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071129130004/http://veterans.house.gov/hearings/Testimony.aspx?TID=4803 to http://veterans.house.gov/hearings/Testimony.aspx?TID=4803

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 08:29, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Lori Piestewa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110716104332/http://www.soledadmemorial.com/plaqloc/plaque_locator.php?alpha=P&order=name&dt=asc&searchby=&searchstr=%7CMount to http://www.soledadmemorial.com/plaqloc/plaque_locator.php?alpha=P&order=name&dt=asc&searchby=&searchstr=|Mount

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 03:16, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Lori Piestewa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070808195738/http://defendamerica.mil/profiles/june2003/pr060203b.html to http://www.defendamerica.mil/profiles/june2003/pr060203b.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:09, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lori Piestewa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081202125124/http://www.pentagon.gov/specials/nativeam02/memorial.html to http://www.pentagon.gov/specials/nativeam02/memorial.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:33, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lori Piestewa


text:
Negro National League (1920–1931)

The first Negro National League (NNL) was one of the several Negro leagues that were established during the period in the United States when organized baseball was segregated. The league was formed in 1920 with former player Rube Foster as its president.

Founding
Led by Rube Foster, owner and manager of the Chicago American Giants, the NNL was established on February 13, 1920, by a coalition of team owners at a meeting in a Kansas City YMCA. The formation included the creation of the NLL constitution, written by journalist Cary B. Lewis, David Wyatt from the Indianapolis Ledger, Elwood C. Knox from the Indianapolis Freeman, and attorney Elisha Scott.

The new league was the first African-American baseball circuit to achieve stability and last more than one season. At first the league operated mainly in midwestern cities, ranging from Kansas City in the west to Pittsburgh in the east; in 1924 it expanded into the south, adding franchises in Birmingham, Alabama, and Memphis, Tennessee.

Competition
The two most important east coast clubs, the Hilldale Club of Darby, Pennsylvania, and the Bacharach Giants of Atlantic City, were affiliated with the NNL as associate clubs from 1920 to 1922, but did not compete for the championship. In 1923 they and four other eastern teams formed the Eastern Colored League (ECL) and raided the NNL for many of its top players, including John Henry Lloyd, Biz Mackey, George Scales, George Carr, and Clint Thomas, and signing Oscar Charleston, and Rube Curry in 1924. The war between the two leagues came to an end in 1924, when they agreed to respect each other's contracts and arranged for the Colored World Series between their champions.

Difficulties and demise
The NNL survived controversies over umpiring, scheduling, and what some perceived as league president Rube Foster's disproportionate influence and favoritism toward his own team. It also outlasted Foster's decline into mental illness in 1926, and its eastern rival, the ECL, which folded in early 1928. The NNL finally fell apart in 1931 under the economic stress of the Great Depression.

Legacy
The Negro American League, founded in 1937 and including several of the same teams that played in the original Negro National League, would eventually carry on as the western circuit of black baseball. A second Negro National League was organized in 1933, but eventually became concentrated on the east coast.

To distinguish between the two unrelated leagues, they are usually referred to as the first Negro National League (NNL I) and the second Negro National League (NNL II).

Negro National League franchises

 * ''Annual final standings: 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931

 * Chicago American Giants (1920–1931) – Known as the Chicago Columbia Giants in 1931; Associate team 1931.
 * Chicago Giants (1920–1921)
 * Cuban Stars (1920–1930) – Known as the Cincinnati Cubans in 1921.
 * Dayton Marcos (1920, 1926)
 * Detroit Stars (1920–1931)
 * Indianapolis ABCs (1920–1924, 1925–1926) – Dropped from league mid-season 1924 but returned the following season.
 * Kansas City Monarchs (1920–1931) – Associate team 1931.
 * St. Louis Giants (1920–1921) – Replaced by St. Louis Stars in 1922, which was virtually the same team with new owners.
 * St. Louis Stars (1922–1931) – Replaced the St. Louis Giants.
 * Columbus Buckeyes (1921)
 * Cleveland Tate Stars (1922–1923) – Dropped out mid-season 1923.
 * Toledo Tigers (1923) – Mid-season replacement for Cleveland Tate Stars.
 * Pittsburgh Keystones (1922)
 * Milwaukee Bears (1923)
 * Birmingham Black Barons (1924–1925, 1927–1930) – Associate team 1931.
 * Cleveland Browns (1924)
 * Memphis Red Sox (1924–1925, 1927–1930) – Mid-season replacement in 1924 for Indianapolis ABCs.
 * Cleveland Elites (1926) – Closely related to both Cleveland Hornets and Cleveland Tigers.
 * Cleveland Hornets (1927) – Closely related to both Cleveland Elites and Cleveland Tigers.
 * Cleveland Tigers (1928) – Closely related to both Cleveland Hornets and Cleveland Elites.
 * Nashville Elite Giants (1930)
 * Cleveland Cubs (1931)
 * Indianapolis ABCs (2nd team) (1931)
 * Louisville White Sox (1931)
 * Columbus Blue Birds – Associate team 1931.
 * Cuban House of David – Associate team 1931.

Member timeline

 * 1920: Formation of NNL consisting of 8 teams – Chicago American Giants, Detroit Stars, Kansas City Monarchs, Indianapolis ABCs, St. Louis Giants, Cuban Stars, Dayton Marcos and Chicago Giants.
 * 1921: Dropped Dayton Marcos; Added Columbus Buckeyes.
 * 1922: Dropped Columbus Buckeyes, Chicago Giants; Added Cleveland Tate Stars, Pittsburgh Keystones.
 * 1923: Dropped Cleveland Tate Stars (mid-season), Pittsburgh Keystones; Added Toledo Tigers (mid-season), Milwaukee Bears.
 * 1924: Dropped Toledo Tigers, Milwaukee Bears, Indianapolis ABCs (mid-season); Added Cleveland Browns, Birmingham Black Barons, Memphis Red Sox (mid-season).
 * 1925: Dropped Cleveland Browns; Re-added Indianapolis ABCs.
 * 1926: Dropped Memphis Red Sox, Birmingham Black Barons; Added Cleveland Elites, re-added Dayton Marcos.
 * 1927: Dropped Dayton Marcos, Indianapolis ABCs; Re-added Birmingham Black Barons, Memphis Red Sox.
 * 1929: Dropped Cleveland Tigers.
 * 1930: Added Nashville Elite Giants.
 * 1931: Dropped Memphis Red Sox, Birmingham Black Barons, Cuban Stars; Added Louisville White Sox, (new) Indianapolis ABCs. League fell apart before season end.

Pennant winners
From 1920 through 1924, the team in first place at the end of the season was declared the Pennant winner. Due to the unorthodox nature of the schedule (and little incentive to enforce it), some teams frequently played many more games than others did in any given season. This led to some disputed championships and two teams claiming the title. The 1931 season did not finish all games, which meant that while St. Louis was awarded the title, non-member Pittsburgh Crawfords disputed their status as champion. From 1924 to 1927, the pennant champion went to play in the Negro World Series. Generally, the team with the best winning percentage (with some minimum number of games played) was awarded the Pennant, but other times it was the team with the most victories. The "games behind" method of recording standings was uncommon in most black leagues.

† – Pennant was decided via a split-season schedule with the winner of the first half of the season playing the winner of the second half of the season, unless one team won both halves.

League play-offs
From 1925 through 1931, the NNL split the season into two halves. The winner of the first half played the winner of the second half for the league Pennant. As mentioned above, disputes also occurred in the split season finishes. 1929 and 1931 saw Kansas City win both halves.

Colored World Series
For the duration of the league, a Colored World Series took place four times, from 1924 through 1927. The NNL Pennant winner met the champion of the rival Eastern Colored League. Three out of the four years, the Negro National League team (below in bold) won.

 * Legend
 * Denotes a tied game.

title: Negro National League (1920–1931)


text:
Death from laughter

Death from laughter is an extremely rare form of death, usually resulting from either cardiac arrest or asphyxiation, that has itself been caused by a fit of laughter. Though uncommon, death by laughter has been recorded from the times of ancient Greece to modern times.

Usually, the phrase "dying from laughter" is used as a hyperbole.

Pathophysiology
Laughter is normally harmless. However, death may result from several pathologies that deviate from benign laughter. Infarction of the pons and the medulla oblongata in the brain may cause the pseudobulbar affect. Asphyxiation caused by laughter leads the body to shut down from the lack of oxygen.

Laughter can cause atonia and collapse ("agelastic syncope"),   which in turn can cause trauma. See also laughter-induced syncope, cataplexy, and Bezold–Jarisch reflex. Gelastic seizures can be due to focal lesions to the hypothalamus. Depending upon the size of the lesion, the emotional lability may be a sign of an acute condition, and not itself the cause of the fatality. Gelastic syncope has also been associated with the cerebellum.

Notable cases

 * Zeuxis, a 5th-century BC Greek painter, is said to have died laughing at the humorous way in which he painted an old woman.
 * Chrysippus, also known as "the man who died from laughing at his joke", is a 3rd-century BC Greek Stoic philosopher who died of laughter after he saw a donkey eating his fermented figs; he told a slave to give the donkey undiluted wine to wash them down, and then, "having laughed too much, he died" (Diogenes Laërtius 7.185).
 * In 1410, King Martin of Aragon is said to have died from a combination of indigestion and uncontrollable laughter.
 * In 1556, Pietro Aretino "is said to have died of suffocation from laughing too much".
 * In 1660, Thomas Urquhart, the Scottish aristocrat, polymath, and first translator of François Rabelais' writings into English, is said to have died laughing upon hearing that Charles II had taken the throne.
 * On October 14, 1920, 56-year-old Arthur Cobcroft, a dog trainer from Loftus Street, Leichhardt, Australia, was reading a five-year-old newspaper and was amused at the prices for some commodities in 1915 as compared to 1920. He made a remark to his wife regarding this and burst into laughter, and in the midst of it, he collapsed and died. A doctor surnamed Nixon was called in, and stated that the death was due to heart failure, brought by excessive laughter.
 * During the night of October 30, 1965 in Manila, Philippines, a 24-year-old carpenter who was well-known for making his companions laugh was telling jokes to his friends. The joke, which the carpenter's friends told police, was so funny that it caused the carpenter to fall in an uncontrollable fit of laughter from which he then fainted; he was brought to the hospital, but died before he could be given medical help. The book The Big Book of Boy Stuff by author Bart King recounts the incident in anecdotal form, where the carpenter was instead told the joke by his friends rather than himself, and "laughed until he cried, collapsed, and then died."
 * On March 24, 1975, Alex Mitchell, from King's Lynn, England, died laughing while watching the "Kung Fu Kapers" episode of The Goodies, featuring a kilt-clad Scotsman with his bagpipes battling a master of the Lancastrian martial art "Eckythump", who was armed with a black pudding. After 25 minutes of continuous laughter, Mitchell then slumped on the sofa and died from heart failure. His widow later sent The Goodies a letter thanking them for making Mitchell's final moments of life so pleasant.  Diagnosis of his granddaughter in 2012 of having the inheritable long QT syndrome (a heart rhythm abnormality) suggests that Mitchell may have died of a cardiac arrest caused by the same condition.
 * In 1989, during the initial run of the film A Fish Called Wanda, a 56-year-old Danish audiologist named Ole Bentzen reportedly laughed himself to death.
 * In 2003, an ice-cream truck driver in Northern Thailand, died soon after he began laughing in his sleep. One late Tuesday night, Damnoen Saen-um, 52, was asleep in his home in Mueang Phuket district when he started mumbling and laughing. Newspapers reported that Damnoen's wife made several attempts to wake up her husband as he was laughing. To no avail, Damnoen stopped breathing on Wednesday, after about two minutes of laughing. A doctor in the province calls this an unusual case and suspects Damnoen may have died from heart complications. However, they are unsure as he had no prior history of heart problems and was reported to have been walking normally the day before.

title: Death from laughter


text:
George Walker

George Walker may refer to:

Arts and letters

 * George Walker (chess player) (1803–1879), English chess player and writer
 * George Walker (composer) (1922–2018), American composer
 * George Walker (illustrator) (1781–1856), author of The Costume of Yorkshire
 * George Walker (novelist) (1772–1847), English gothic novelist
 * George Walker (printmaker) (born 1960), Canadian writer, artist and printmaker
 * George Walker (privateer) (died 1777), British privateer
 * George Walker (Puritan) (1581–1651), English clergyman
 * George Walker (vaudeville) (1873–1911), American vaudeville singer, partner of Bert Williams
 * Benjamin Walker (author) (George Benjamin Walker, 1913–2013), author on religion and philosophy, and authority on esoterica
 * George F. Walker (born 1947), Canadian playwright and screenwriter
 * George P. L. Walker (1926–2005), volcanologist
 * George T. Walker (1913–2011), president of the University of Louisiana at Monroe, 1958–1976

Business

 * George Alfred Walker (1929–2011), British businessman, founder of Brent Walker
 * George Herbert Walker (1875–1953), American businessman, grandfather of George Herbert Walker Bush
 * George Herbert Walker Jr. (1905–1977), co-founder of the New York Mets baseball team
 * George Herbert Walker IV (born 1969), chairman and chief executive officer, Neuberger Berman
 * George Paterson Walker (1864–1926), oldest son of whisky maker Alexander Walker
 * George Walker (CPR president), president of the Canadian Pacific Railway

Politics and military

 * Sir George Walker, 1st Baronet (1764–1842), British general, of the Forestier-Walker baronets
 * George Walker (attorney) (1824–1888), Massachusetts state congressman, banker, corporate executive, political adviser, advocate for bimetallism and U.S. Consul-General in Paris
 * George Walker (Kentucky politician) (1763–1819), U.S. senator from Kentucky
 * George Walker (soldier) (c. 1645–1690), clergyman and English colonel in Ireland
 * George Gustavus Walker (1831–1897), British Conservative Member of Parliament
 * George Walker (MP for Rossendale) (1874–1954), British Member of Parliament for Rossendale, 1945–1950
 * George Herbert Walker III (1931–2020), American businessman, US ambassador to Hungary
 * George J. Walker (1934–2005), U.S. general, military intelligence

Sport

 * George Walker (Australian footballer) (1894–1973), Australian rules footballer
 * George Walker (1880s pitcher) (1856–1908), Canadian Major League Baseball player
 * George Walker (cricketer, born 1919) (1919–1995), English cricketer
 * George Walker (cricketer, born 1984), English cricketer
 * George Walker (footballer, born 1877) (1877–1930), English football full-back with Crystal Palace
 * George Walker (footballer, born 1909) (1909–?), Scottish international footballer
 * George Walker (footballer, born 1934) (1934–2012), English football inside forward with Bristol City and Carlisle United
 * George Walker (1930s pitcher) (1915–1967), American Negro leagues baseball player
 * George Walker (wrestler), Canadian wrestler
 * George Glossop Walker (1860–1908), English cricketer
 * George R. Walker, American football and basketball coach
 * George Croxton Walker, British military officer

Others

 * George Walker (mathematician) (c. 1730–1807), English Dissenter and mathematician
 * George H. Walker (1811–1866), helped found Milwaukee, Wisconsin
 * George W. Walker (1896–1993), automotive industrial designer
 * George Washington Walker (1800–1859), missionary for the church called Religious Society of Friends, or Quakers
 * Sir George Casson Walker, British administrator in the Indian Civil Service
 * George Walker (South Africa), one of the alleged discoverers of the main gold reef on the Witwatersrand
 * George Walker, member of Ken Kesey's Merry Pranksters and first husband of Carolyn Garcia

title: George Walker


text:
User talk:MishaChan

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * If you haven't already, please add your name to the new user log to let others know a little about yourself.
 * Read the article describing how to edit a page and feel free to experiment in the Sandbox.
 * When editing pages, use the preview button before submitting and try to fill in the summary box for every edit.
 * Eventually, read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck! Jrdioko

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~ (4 tildes).

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

User Categorisation
You were listed on the Wikipedians/Ontario page as living in or being associated with Mississauga, Ontario. As part of the User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Wikipedians in Mississauga for instructions.--Rmky87 02:33, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikimedia Canada
Hi there! I'd like to invite you to explore Wikimedia Canada, and create a list of people interested in forming a local chapter for our nation. A local chapter will help promote and improve the organization, within our great nation. We'd also like to encourage everyone to suggest projects for our national chapter to participate in. Hope to see you there!--DarkEvil 04:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

WikProject Aviation Newsletter delivery
The March 2007 issue of the Aviation WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 18:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you really Mig
or is it just a wikiname? Migdejong 15:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Rotterdam airport logo.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Rotterdam airport logo.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Non-free content and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 10:39, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Canadian Coptic Center.jpg & Image:St Mark's CopticChurch--TO.jpg
Hello, there.

I just wanted to know if you're able to take a picture of the Coptic Orthodox Church Center in Mississauga OR St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church in Toronto. You can find out the street address online (the links to those websites are on the image pages). The current images are, unfortunately, copyrighted, as I was the one who uploaded them.

The current (copyrighted) images may get deleted, so if they do, then I'll need to replace them.

I need you or somebody else to take a picture, release its copyright, and upload it onto Wikipedia. I HAVE contacted others to notify them also, so if there are more than one pictures, that's OK (I can still make an article on them). I want these images to be used for, specifically, the article "Coptic Orthodox Church in Canada". The image pages are, again:

 * Toronto: Image:St Mark's CopticChurch--TO.jpg
 * Mississauga: Image:Canadian Coptic Center.jpg

 * ~ Troy 22:34, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Savagegarden-affirmation.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Savagegarden-affirmation.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 05:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Cypress Hill Live at the Fillmore.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Cypress Hill Live at the Fillmore.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

"MiG" on .de
Hello there, fellow Mig!

I'm currently preparing to migrate my wiki-accounts to the Single User Login, and it turns out that I'm not the "MiG" on .de, preventing SUL completion. Would you mind renaming to something else there, "Mig" for example? Thanks in advance. -- MiG (talk) 23:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Football/Manchester United task force
Hi there. I noticed from the list of participants at WP:FOOTY that you are a Manchester United fan. A task force has been set up to help improve articles related to Manchester United, and we are looking for participants to help with the effort. If you would be interested, please add your name to the list at the task force's page. Thanks. – PeeJay 10:16, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Delta Goodrem - Mistaken Identity.jpg)
Thanks for uploading File:Delta Goodrem - Mistaken Identity.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

An exciting opportunity to get involved!
As a member of the Aviation WikiProject or one of its subprojects, you may be interested in testing your skills in the Aviation Contest! I created this contest, not to pit editor against editor, but to promote article improvement and project participation and camraderie. Hopefully you will agree with its usefulness. Sign up here, read up on the rules here, and discuss the contest here. The first round of the contest may not start until September 1st-unless a large number of editors signup and are ready to compete immediately! Since this contest is just beginning, please give feedback here, or let me know what you think on my talkpage. -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  03:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The Bat (Canada's Wonderland)
Hi Mig, I noticed that you have opposed the deletion of the The Bat (Canada's Wonderland). As a result, I have opened a discussion here where you can give you reason(s) why this article should not be deleted. Thank-you!-- Dom497 ( talk ) 11:59, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Mig. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Mig~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 01:48, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Convention panel participation
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Meetup/San Diego. Thanks. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:00, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:21, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Savagegarden-affirmation.jpg
 Thanks for uploading File:Savagegarden-affirmation.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:15, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:MishaChan


text:
User:KingGeekoid

I am a social democrat, atheist, civil libertarian, and an advocate for nonviolence.

Yay for me!!!

Yay for you indeed! Have you seen the House of Cards Trilogy? Just finished it myself, and was doing some post-movie wikipedia browsing on the Iron Lady when I saw your comment. - Debivort 10:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

title: User:KingGeekoid


text: User talk:66.27.157.230

title: User talk:66.27.157.230


text:
User talk:KingGeekoid

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * If you haven't already, please add your name to the new user log to let others know a little about yourself.
 * Read the article describing how to edit a page and feel free to experiment in the Sandbox.
 * When editing pages, use the preview button before submitting and try to fill in the summary box for every edit.
 * Eventually, read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck! Jrdioko

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~ (4 tildes).

Hi, welcome to Wikipedia. One little nitpick -- in your changes to Azerbaijan, you mentioned "our country". But Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia, so references to "our country" are inappropriate. Could you fix that? Also, we don't sign our articles. You login name is in the page's history. Welcome, agian. RickK 23:43, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Hi. Just a small point on editing. If you place the inverted commas, for italics, inside the square brackets, the software will take the punctuation as part of the name of the link and won't recognise it. You need to put them outside the brackets. Cheers. Deb 10:55, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Sophie Moone

The article Sophie Moone has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * Doesn't meet PORNBIO.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a message on my talk page. @ 15:32, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Sophie Moone
I have nominated Sophie Moone, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Sophie Moone. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Epbr123 (talk) 09:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:KingGeekoid


text:
Taurus

Taurus is Latin for 'bull' and may refer to:

 * Taurus (astrology), the astrological sign
 * Vṛṣabha, in vedic astrology
 * Taurus (constellation), one of the constellations of the zodiac
 * Taurus (mythology), one of two Greek mythological characters named Taurus
 * Bos taurus, a species of cattle
 * Taurus cattle, a breed of cattle

Geography

 * Taurus Mountains, a range in modern-day Turkey
 * Montes Taurus, a mountainous region on the Moon
 * Taurus Mountain, a summit in Canada

People

 * Tarrus Riley, reggae singer who initially worked as a deejay under the name Taurus
 * Black Taurus (born 1987), Mexican wrestler also known as Taurus
 * Gran Guerrero (born 1993), Mexican wrestler formerly known as Taurus
 * Polo G (Taurus Bartlett, born 1999), American rapper

Romans

 * Titus Statilius Taurus, the name of a line of four Roman senators
 * Titus Statilius Taurus Corvinus, Roman consul in 45
 * Lucius Calvenus Taurus, 2nd century Middle Platonist philosopher
 * Taurus Volusianus, Roman consul in 261
 * Taurus (consul 361), Roman consul in 361
 * Taurus (consul 428), Roman consul in 428, nephew of the previous
 * Taurus Seleucus Cyrus, better known as Cyrus of Panopolis, Roman consul in 441 and writer

Fictional characters

 * Taurus (Marvel Comics), a Marvel Comics villain
 * Taurus (G.I. Joe), a character in the G.I. Joe universe
 * Taurus, a.k.a. Ox, a character in the Mega Man Star Force TV series
 * Taurus Bulba, a villain in the animated television series Darkwing Duck

Film

 * Taurus (2001 film), a Russian film
 * Taurus (2022 film), an American film directed by Tim Sutton

Music

 * Moog Taurus, a synthesizer; including the Taurus I, Taurus II, Taurus III
 * Taurus, a former band name of the Danish pop group TV-2
 * Taurus (group), a girl band
 * "Taurus Here", a 2005 song by Taurus
 * "Taurus" (instrumental), a 1968 rock instrumental by Spirit
 * Taurus I, Five Miles Out (Taurus II) and Taurus III, a trilogy of musical pieces by Mike Oldfield in the 1980s

Military

 * Taurus space launch vehicle, later named Minotaur-C
 * Taurus KEPD 350, a cruise missile
 * HMS Taurus, two ships of the Royal Navy
 * USNS Taurus (T-AK-273), a vehicle landing ship
 * USS Taurus (AF-25), a WWII cargo ship
 * USS Taurus (PHM-3), hydrofoil
 * Bristol Taurus, a 1936 aircraft piston engine
 * Canadian Taurus Armoured Recovery Vehicle, based on the Leopard 1 tank
 * XSSM-N-4 Taurus, a proposed unmanned version of the North American AJ Savage bomber

Civilian

 * Ford Taurus, a full-size sedan (previously mid-size from 1986 to 2007) produced by the Ford Motor Company from 1986 to 2019
 * Ford Taurus (China), a full-size sedan produced by Changan Ford since 2016
 * South Devon Railway locomotive Taurus, a 0-6-0ST steam locomotive
 * The Taurus Express (Toros Ekspresi), a Turkish passenger train
 * Pipistrel Taurus, a two-seat, self launching ultralight sailplane
 * ST Taurus, a tug in service with Panfido Rim., Italy 1949–1984
 * Taurus (locomotive), a widely known name for the EuroSprinter 64 U+ locomotive
 * Taurus II space launch vehicle, the former name of the American Antares rocket launch vehicle

Law enforcement

 * Ford Police Interceptor Sedan, police version of the Ford Taurus

Business

 * Taurus (manufacturer), a Brazilian gun manufacturer
 * Taurus Impact Systems, a business software producer and the precursor to Bullfrog Productions
 * TAURUS (share trading), an unsuccessful IT project at the London Stock Exchange

Other

 * Operation Taurus, a planned prosecution against Irish politician Martin McGuinness

title: Taurus


text: User talk:212.219.120.5

title: User talk:212.219.120.5


text:
User talk:Worldtyrant

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * If you haven't already, please add your name to the new user log to let others know a little about yourself.
 * Read the article describing how to edit a page and feel free to experiment in the Sandbox.
 * When editing pages, use the preview button before submitting and try to fill in the summary box for every edit.
 * Eventually, read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck! Jrdioko

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~ (4 tildes).

title: User talk:Worldtyrant