text:
User:Isomorphic/Essays/The Rule of Law

A semi-coherent ramble about rules, trolling, and other stuff.

I fail to understand the obsession some Wikipedians seem to have with due process. When I first arrived here, you couldn't get anyone to agree on any rules at all. Everyone yelled "guidelines, not rules" every time anything resembling a rule was suggested. Now we have people who nitpick every policy, and trolls who try to bend the rules against us.

Wikipedia isn't about rules, or even about community. It's about building an encyclopedia. The rules and the community exist to serve the encyclopedia, not the other way around. If the rules are in the way of making a good encyclopedia, then it's the rules that should change. I care a lot less whether someone has followed the wording of a policy page than whether they are sincerely trying to help the project.

I strongly support Please do not bite the newcomers, and I feel that our strength is in our ability to accept all kinds of editors. We need to take care to assume good faith on the part of newcomers. Our problem is that assuming good faith is one thing; ignoring obvious bad faith is another.

There's nothing sinister or fascist about showing the door to those who aren't helping the project. There is no moral equivalence between telling someone they can't edit a website and tossing them in jail or exiling them from a country. Heck, most websites out there are never editable to anyone except their owners. There's no "freedom of speech" argument, either. Wikipedia is a very open project, but it's still a privately owned website. No one has an inalienable right to edit here. The internet is large. If someone doesn't want to help write an encyclopedia, there are countless other places they can spend their time.

We consistently ask the wrong questions. Wikipedia not a court of law. Fairness and justice are good, but they are not the point. Building an encyclopedia is the point. If someone is, overall, making it harder to build a quality encyclopedia instead of easier, they should find something to do elsewhere.

Wikipedia is not the place to fight "The Man". It is not a place for the disaffected to experiment with "dissent" in a safe, virtual world where they won't get arrested for it. If someone wants to inform the public about something, that's great. That is what we're here for, and anyone is welcome to add information as long as they follow NPOV. But if someone shows up wanting to reform the project, or complaining about the tyranny of the admins, I'm just not that interested. The best part of this community is the opportunity to collaborate with intelligent, knowledgeable people in creating something worthwhile. I'm not interested in imaginary power struggles.

All it takes is a few edits that demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt someone isn't really interested in helping to build an encyclopedia, and I no longer care what they think. I'm not talking about rudeness. It's bad, but it happens. I'm not talking about POV pushing. Again, it's inappropriate, but it can be worked into the overall wiki process. I'm not talking about self-promotion, although that gets under my skin immensely. I'm not even talking about vandalism, as some vandals mature and become useful contributors.

I'm talking about edits made to deliberately cause trouble. Edits that have no rational explanation otherwise. Things like nominating a vandal for adminship, or trying to pick fights. Things like making provocative contributions to talk pages and the Wikipedia namespace, without contributing substantially to any articles. This sort of person is not useful here, and we have no reason to tolerate them or worry one bit what they think.

Keep Wikipedia sane and happy. Please don't feed the trolls.

Hi there - hope this is an ok place to post! I agree with what you say, but the problem becomes your definition of building an encyclopedia. Who gets to decide what vision of an encyclopedia is being built if people can be banned for having a different one? Mark Richards 18:51, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

I agree 100% with the essay. You answer Mark's question with exactly the right answer: you look at their contributions. There is no question that the pattern of contributions of a troll is obviously different than a contributor. There won't be a "different" vision of an encyclopedia, there won't be anything recognizable as an encyclopedia at all.

 * I'm not convinced. Of course there are users who we can all agree are 'obvious trolls', but there is such a grey area of users whose vision we don't agree with, but might be just as valid and constructive as ours. We will never see it though, because the closed minded will ban them as 'obvious trolls'.Mark Richards 20:46, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Mark, your comments are exactly the sort of thing that worries me. What you say sounds good, but I don't see any relevance to what really happens on Wikipedai. Who, exactly, has ever been banned because they have a "different" view? People are banned because they won't follow rules, and won't respect other editors or the encyclopedia. I have a vision of Wikipedia as a useful, accurate reference work. If anyone has a vision other than that, I'm not interested in it. I'm perfectly willing to discuss and compromise on article content. I'm willing to discuss and compromise on policy. I don't always enjoy working with people whose worldviews are very different from mine, but I'm willing to do it. My concern is that some good editors on Wikipedia seem to believe that we are morally obligated to humor every head case or jerk that shows up, because to do otherwise would be unjust or unkind. I don't see things that way at all. To me, it's silly to have the time and energy (and happiness) of good editors thrown away in dealing with people who won't behave. I'd like to see a system where if someone is consistently ignoring the rules, they recieve an official warning explaining what they need to change. Then if they choose to ignore the warning, they get banned without need for further ado. It should be a simple choice; stay and behave, or go. We really don't ask that much of people, just some common decency. It's sad to have good editors driven away because we don't rid ourselves of nuissances like Irismeister, who patronizes and insults people while making himself out to be a victim. The best example was User:Plautus satire, who was here for a couple months even though practically everyone who ever dealt with him knew he needed to be banned. What were we waiting for, exactly? Isomorphic 23:57, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, what you say sounds good, but it papers over the issue of whether we can agree on what a 'useful and accurate work' looks like. While of course I agree that users who simply vandalise and or harrass, insult others might warrent exclusion (although I don't think that exclusion is the most effective way to deal with them) I worry that we get too narrow minded in what this looks like to us, and assume that other people's views of what is useful and accurate is not what we want, so we ban them. Mark Richards 20:19, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * In theory we might ban people just because we don't like their views, but I've not seen it happen. In practice, we go to the other extreme, tolerating people who don't even pay lip service to fundamental policies like NPOV.  As I said, disagreement is fine.  What is not ok is causing strife for its own sake, and being rude or obnoxious to other Wikipedia editors.  If you spent a while watching someone like User:JRR Trollkien, it was pretty clear that he wasn't fundamentally here to improve Wikipedia.  He was here to aggravate people and be difficult, and he did a fine job of it.  Sure, sometimes he would seem reasonable, but he also made edits that could have no purpose other than to cause trouble.
 * Also, exclusion is quite useful and effective in some cases. Plautus satire has not come back, and if you'll recall how much trouble he caused, this is a very good thing.  While I don't believe he was deliberately causing trouble, he was quite unbalanced, and Wikipedia is not an asylum. Isomorphic 01:32, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * To clarify: there are people whose fundamental view of Wikipedia I disagree with.  Anthony DiPierro and other radical inclusionists, for example, would turn Wikipedia into a giant mass of data, unsuited for actual reference.  I do not, and would never, call for them to be banned.  Really, the people I think most need to go are those who abuse other users. Isomorphic 01:38, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, there's a point of agreement - abusing other users is never ok - that I could certainly get onboard banning people for. Mark Richards 02:22, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thank you for this essay - you just spared me one evening to write the same :-) --Elian 21:23, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Isomorphic/Essays/The Rule of Law


text:
User talk:Enhandle

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * If you haven't already, please add your name to the new user log to let others know a little about yourself.
 * Read the article describing how to edit a page and feel free to experiment in the Sandbox.
 * When editing pages, use the preview button before submitting and try to fill in the summary box for every edit.
 * Eventually, read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck! Jrdioko

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~ (4 tildes).

title: User talk:Enhandle


text:
Boon, Michigan

Boon is an unincorporated community and census-designated place (CDP) in Wexford County in the U.S. state of Michigan. The community is located within Boon Township. The population of the CDP was 90 at the 2020 census.

As an unincorporated community, Boon has no legal autonomy of its own but does have its own post office with the 49618 ZIP Code.

History
Boon was first settled as early as 1888 as a station on the Toledo, Ann Arbor, and Northern Michigan Railroad. The community was platted in 1889 and received its first office on December 19, 1899.

The community of Boon was listed as a newly-organized census-designated place for the 2010 census, meaning it now has officially defined boundaries and population statistics for the first time.

Geography
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the community has an area of 0.84 sqmi, all land.

Education
The community of Boon is served by two separate school districts. Residents may attend Cadillac Area Public Schools in Cadillac to the southeast, while others might attend Mesick Consolidated Schools in Mesick to the northwest.

title: Boon, Michigan


text:
Ford Bantam

The Ford Bantam is a coupé utility/pickup (known in South African English as a 'Bakkie') produced in South Africa. Production of the Bantam spanned three generations, with the vehicle produced in South Africa for sale within the South African market.

History
Introduced in South Africa in 1983, the Bantam enjoyed success both as a rugged compact commercial vehicle, and as a leisure-oriented private vehicle. It was discontinued in 2011 without immediate replacement. However, rumours continue to circulate that a next-generation replacement for the Bantam may reach the South African market by 2022.

Background
Coupe utility pickups such as the Bantam are popular in South Africa as a more affordable, compact and fuel-efficient alternative to larger commercial pickups such as the Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara and Ford's own Ranger. Their compact size and ease of handling means they are viable not just as light- to medium-duty commercial vehicles, but also as everyday transport.

Pickups intended for heavy commercial use (in South Africa, the so-called one-tonner class) tend to be based around a steel ladder-frame chassis, with the cab and load box mounted separately. In this class, petrol-driven engines are generally between 2,000 cc and 4,000 cc in displacement, and diesel engines are generally between 2,000 cc and 3,200 cc. The vehicles are usually rated to carry loads of between 900 and 1,100 kg.

By contrast, the shells of compact pickups such as the Bantam (known as half-tonners) are almost always of monocoque (unibody) configuration. This yields greater commonality of parts with the passenger cars they are based on, as well as easier assembly on a parallel production line. They generally have around 35% less tare mass than a typical 'one-tonner', their engines generally displace between 1,300 cc and 1,800 cc, and they are usually rated to carry loads of no more than 800 kg.

First generation (1983-1990)

The first-generation Bantam was introduced in South Africa in 1983. It was intended to compete for market share that was, at the time, almost entirely monopolised by Nissan's B140 1400 Bakkie (which had been derived from the B110 sedan), with the remainder accounted for by the recently released Volkswagen Caddy. The Bantam (named after a breed of fowl known for its small size and courageous, defiant nature) was based on the Mark III Ford Escort. It featured a South African-developed load box, tailgate, rear lights, rear quarter windows and leaf-sprung, dead-axle rear suspension.

Like the Escort on which it was based, the Bantam was initially available with 1,296 cc and 1,598 cc carburettor-fed versions of Ford's compound valve-angle hemi (CVH) engine. Faced with criticism from the South African market regarding noise, vibration, harshness and unreasonably high fuel consumption, Ford South Africa opted to discontinue CVH engine installation. Subsequently, South African Escorts and Bantams were fitted with crossflow variants of the technically obsolete Kent engine.

The Bantam was initially produced at the Ford plant in Struandale, Port Elizabeth. Upon Ford's apartheid-era divestment from South Africa, Bantam production was relocated to the Samcor plant in Silverton, Pretoria. The exterior tailgate panels on pre-divestment Bantams and Rustlers have 'Ford' or 'Mazda' script pressed into them, while post-divestment vehicles have 'MMI' script.

Within the South African market, the Bantam was also available as the Mazda Rustler.

Second generation (1990-2001)
In 1990, the Escort-derived Bantam was replaced with a Mazda 323-derived model. To save on research and development costs, the new Bantam used a slightly modified version of the existing load box from the previous Bantam. Re-styling and finishing of the new vehicle were undertaken by Samcor's in-house design studio. The new Bantam was the first South African-produced vehicle to be subjected to computer-modelled finite-element stress analysis, and also benefitted from accelerated durability testing conducted by the University of Pretoria. As before, the vehicle was also available as a Mazda Rustler.

323-derived Bantams and Rustlers were available in various trim levels, and with a choice of three different petrol engines: a 1,323 cc carburettor-fed Mazda B3 engine producing 50 kW, a 1,597 cc carburettor-fed Mazda B6 engine producing 60 kW, and a 1,597 cc fuel-injected variant of the B6 engine that produced 77 kW.

Luxury-specification 60 kW versions featuring cloth-covered bucket seats, a sports steering wheel and bodywork decals were also available. The Ford variant was badged the Explorer, while the Mazda variant was badged the Drifter.

Third generation (2002-2011)

The third-generation Bantam was launched in 2002, based on the fifth-generation Ford Fiesta. As with the Mazda 323-derived Bantam, the Fiesta-derived Bantam retained a modified version of the Bantam Mark I load box and rear suspension. Production continued at the Silverton plant. Though the Mazda 121 (a re-badged Ford Fiesta) was available in South Africa, demand was judged sufficiently low that a Mazda-rebadged Bantam was never produced.

Initial version (2002-2006)
The third-generation Bantam was initially made available with a choice of 1,297 cc and 1,597 cc Rocam (Roller Finger Camshaft) petrol engines, and a normally-aspirated 1,755 cc Endura-D diesel engine. Being a low-cost derivative of the multi-valve Zetec-SE that was intended for developing markets, the Brazilian-designed Rocam engine is of single overhead-cam configuration with two valves per cylinder.

Rocam-engined Bantams were available in four different trim levels, with bucket seats as standard equipment on all Bantams. Basic (fleet) versions featured austere interiors with vinyl seat trim, and no air conditioning, power steering or audio system. XL versions featured Jacquard cloth upholstery, 14-inch alloy wheels, four-speaker sound systems, full instrumentation, power steering and air conditioning. In addition to XL-level features, XLT versions featured electric windows, electrically-adjustable mirrors, front fog lights, colour-coded exterior mirrors and front bumper. In addition to XLT-level features, XLE versions featured colour-coded exterior door handles, white-faced race-style instrumentation, driver and passenger airbags, and pyrotechnic seat-belt tensioners. Endura-D-engined Bantams were available in basic and XL trim levels.

First facelift (2006-2009)

In 2006, the Bantam underwent minor restyling as part of a mid-life upgrade. The instrumentation cluster was simplified, the double-filament headlights were replaced with headlights featuring separate bulbs for dipped and main beams, the rear lights and front fog lights were redesigned, and different alloy wheels were installed on XL, XLT and XLE versions. The diesel engine option was no longer available.

Second facelift (2009-2011)

In 2009, the Bantam received a second mid-life upgrade consisting of all-new bonnet, headlights, front bumper, rear lights, 'liquid chrome' nomenclature, instrument cluster and interior trim. Rocam-engined versions also received catalytic convertors. To counter the challenge posed by more modern half-ton pickups with advanced turbodiesel engines (such as the Opel Corsa Utility), Ford South Africa also offered the 1,399 cc DuraTorq engine option.

In 2011, Ford South Africa ended production of the Bantam, focussing its marketing efforts on the larger and more expensive Ranger. In 2013, Ford USA followed suit, discontinuing imports of the Brazilian-made Courier. With no equivalent replacement available, Ford's support for the half-ton coupe utility segment effectively ended.

Similarity to Ford Courier

Another coupe pickup was derived from the fifth-generation Fiesta, independently of the Bantam. The resulting vehicle, the Ford Courier, was designed and produced in Brazil, initially for the Brazilian domestic market. Aft of the vehicle A-pillars, the Bantam and Courier share almost no common parts. Whereas the Bantam uses the shorter front doors of the Ford Ikon and 5-door Fiesta hatchback in conjunction with rear quarter windows, the Courier uses the longer front doors from the 3-door Fiesta hatchback, with no quarter windows. Production of the Fiesta-based Courier ended in 2013.

Future Developments
Following the discontinuation of the Fiesta-derived Bantam, Fiat South Africa's withdrawal of the Palio-derived Strada and General Motors' disinvestment from the South African market (effectively ending production of the Spark-derived Chevrolet Utility), the Renault Logan-derived Nissan NP200 is the only remaining half-ton coupe utility on the South African market as of July 2021.

South Africa's deteriorating economy, combined with the relative unaffordability of larger pickups such as the Toyota Hilux and Ford Ranger mean that demand for a Bantam replacement has never abated. Since the end of Bantam production, unconfirmed rumours have circulated regarding plans by Ford South Africa to replace the Bantam with a direct equivalent. As of 2021, no such vehicle has yet been produced.

Rumours continue to circulate that Ford USA may develop a replacement for the Brazilian Courier, possibly based on the next-generation Focus platform. If cleared for production, the new vehicle could be released by 2022. However, after the coronavirus pandemic, Ford left Brazil.

title: Ford Bantam


text:
User talk:HunterX

Thanks for correcting the Quenya text :-) Anárion 06:13, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Last time I checked, Venetian Snares was not made of Bees. Please check your facts, or knock off the vandalism. --Insomniak 09:56, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

File:"Crist", by Cynewulf, translated into Quenya, written in Tengwar.png listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:"Crist", by Cynewulf, translated into Quenya, written in Tengwar.png, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. :Jay8gInspect-Berate-Know  WASH-BRIDGE-WPWA-MFIC 02:54, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

title: User talk:HunterX


text: User talk:24.90.8.192

title: User talk:24.90.8.192


text:
User talk:Troels Arvin

You can talk to me here, but I prefer e-mails. My e-mail address is mailto:troels@arvin.dk.

Stonebraker
Hi Tarvin,

I moved that page to the user space (back in 2002) because I thought the page was a self-advertisement. Apparently the article (now expanded) is legitimate, so the user page could be deleted (assuming it is not a real user). Jeronimo 07:23, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hej!
Jeg kan se at du er aktiv på den engelske Wikipedia, og at du er fra Danmark. I skrivende stund, diskuterer vi på landsbybrønden et nyt forslag, om at starte en national afdeling, der vil blive kaldet Wikimedia Danmark. Hvis du er interesseret i at bidrage med noget tid til at få startet afdelingen, kan du skrive dit navn på denne side hos meta. Tak for din tid! Mike H. Fierce! 08:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:15, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Troels Arvin


text:
User talk:Patt1~enwiki

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * If you haven't already, please add your name to the new user log to let others know a little about yourself.
 * Read the article describing how to edit a page and feel free to experiment in the Sandbox.
 * When editing pages, use the preview button before submitting and try to fill in the summary box for every edit.
 * Eventually, read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck! Jrdioko

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~ (4 tildes).

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Patt1. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Patt1~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 02:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 17:27, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Patt1~enwiki


text:
Bill Hardman

William Franklin Hardman Jr. (April 6, 1933 – December 6, 1990) was an American jazz trumpeter and flugelhornist who chiefly played hard bop. He was married to Roseline and they had a daughter Nadege.

Career
Hardman was born and grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and worked with local players including Bobby Few and Bob Cunningham; while in high school he appeared with Tadd Dameron, and after graduation he joined Tiny Bradshaw's band. Hardman's first recording was with Jackie McLean in 1956; he later played with Charles Mingus, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Horace Silver, and Lou Donaldson, and led a group with Junior Cook. Hardman also recorded as a leader: Saying Something on the Savoy label received critical acclaim in jazz circles, but was little known to the general public. He had three periods in as many decades with Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers; Hardman's misfortune was not to be with the Messengers at the time of their popular Blue Note recordings. Blakey occasionally featured him playing several extended choruses unaccompanied.

He died in Paris, France, of a brain hemorrhage at the age of 57.

Playing style and legacy
A crackling hard bop player with blazing technique, crisp articulations, and a no-frills sound, Hardman later incorporated into his sound the fuller, more extroverted romantic passion of a Clifford Brown – a direction he would take increasingly throughout the late-1960s and 1970s. He figures by and large among the top ranks of hardbop titans of the time, although he never managed a commercial breakthrough like many of his colleagues such as Donald Byrd, Freddie Hubbard and Lee Morgan.

As leader
With Brass Company
 * 1961 – Saying Something (Savoy)
 * 1978 – Home (Muse)
 * 1980 – Focus (Muse)
 * 1981 – Politely (Muse)
 * 1989 – What's Up (SteepleChase)
 * 1975 – Colors (Strata-East)

As sideman
With Dave Bailey With Art Blakey With Walter Bishop Jr With Junior Cook With Lou Donaldson With Charles Earland With Curtis Fuller With Benny Golson With Eddie Jefferson With Ronnie Mathews With Jackie McLean With Jimmy McGriff With Charles Mingus With Hank Mobley With Houston Person With Mickey Tucker With Steve Turre With Mal Waldron With Reuben Wilson '''With Dodo Marmarosa
 * 2 Feet in the Gutter (Epic, 1961)
 * Hard Bop (Columbia, 1956)
 * Originally (Columbia, 1956 [1982])
 * Drum Suite (Columbia, 1957)
 * Selections from Lerner and Loewe's... (Vik, 1957)
 * Tough! (Cadet, 1957 [1966])
 * A Night in Tunisia (Vik, 1957)
 * Cu-Bop (Jubilee, 1957)
 * Ritual: The Modern Jazz Messengers (Pacific Jazz 1957)
 * A Midnight Session with the Jazz Messengers (Elektra, 1957)
 * Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers With Thelonious Monk (Atlantic, 1957)
 * Hard Drive (Bethlehem, 1957)
 * Art Blakey Big Band (Bethlehem, 1957)
 * Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers (Live at Slug's (1968) (Everest 1977)
 * Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers (Moanin' Live (1968) (Laserlight CD)
 * Jazz Messengers '70 (Catalyst, 1970)
 * In Walked Sonny Jazz Messengers with Sonny Stitt (Sonnet 1975)
 * Backgammon (Roulette, 1976)
 * Hot House (Muse, 1977/78 [1979])
 * Good Cookin' (Muse, 1979)
 * Sunny Side Up (Blue Note, 1960)
 * Possum Head (Argo, 1964)
 * Musty Rusty (Cadet, 1965)
 * Fried Buzzard (Cadet, 1965)
 * Infant Eyes (Muse, 1979)
 * Pleasant Afternoon (Muse, 1981)
 * Crankin' (Mainstream, 1971)
 * Smokin' (Mainstream, 1972)
 * Pop + Jazz = Swing (Audio Fidelity, 1961) – also released as Just Jazz!
 * Come Along with Me (Prestige, 1969)
 * Legacy (Bee Hive, 1979)
 * Jackie's Pal (Prestige, 1956)
 * McLean's Scene (New Jazz, 1956)
 * Jackie McLean & Co. (Prestige, 1957)
 * Movin' Upside the Blues (JAM, 1982)
 * A Modern Jazz Symposium of Music and Poetry (Bethlehem, 1957)
 * Hank Mobley (album) (Blue Note, 1957)
 * Wild Flower (Muse, 1977)
 * Sojourn (Xanadu, 1977)
 * Viewpoints and Vibrations (Stash, 1987)
 * Mal 2 (Prestige, 1957) – with John Coltrane
 * The Sweet Life (Groove Merchant, 1973)
 * Dodo Marmarosa - The Chicago Sessions (1961-1962)[2 LP] (Argo Jazz, LP2, 1962-11-02)

title: Bill Hardman


text:
Eddie Olczyk

Edward Walter Olczyk Jr. (born August 16, 1966) is an American former center in the National Hockey League for 16 seasons with the Chicago Blackhawks, Toronto Maple Leafs, Winnipeg Jets, New York Rangers, Los Angeles Kings, and Pittsburgh Penguins. He won the Stanley Cup with the Rangers in 1994. Olczyk was also the head coach of the Pittsburgh Penguins from June 2003 to December 2005.

He served as a television color commentator for NHL on NBC until its end in 2021 and currently commentates on TNT and Seattle Kraken games on Root Sports Northwest. He also currently serves as the Horse Racing Handicapper and Analyst for NBC's Horse Racing Coverage. Throughout his career as an NHL player, he played 1,031 NHL games and produced 342 goals and 452 assists for a total of 794 points. He was inducted into the United States Hockey Hall of Fame on February 22, 2013.

Olczyk, during the 1989–90 season, scored a point in 18 consecutive games, which was the longest streak by an American-born player in NHL history. The record was tied by Phil Kessel and later broken by Patrick Kane.

Amateur career
As a youth, Olczyk played in the 1978 and 1979 Quebec International Pee-Wee Hockey Tournaments with a minor ice hockey team from Chicago.

Olczyk grew up in Niles, Illinois and Palos Heights, Illinois and went to Brother Rice Catholic High School. He was a star on the Illinois midget AAA team (Team Illinois) that won the 1982 national title against a Detroit Compuware squad that featured future NHL stars Pat LaFontaine and Al Iafrate. He then moved to Canada to play for the Stratford Cullitons junior team before joining the 1984 U.S. Olympic hockey team.

Professional career
Olczyk was selected by the Chicago Blackhawks as the third overall pick in the first round of the 1984 NHL Entry Draft. He scored his first NHL goal in his first NHL game on October 11, 1984, versus the Detroit Red Wings in Chicago Stadium against Greg Stefan. From 1984 through 1987, Olczyk was a member of Chicago's infamous "Clydesdale Line" with Troy Murray and Curt Fraser, the nickname coined by Chicago's broadcaster Pat Foley, as each player weighed in at or around 200 pounds. He was traded several times during his career. In 1987, Olczyk was traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs with Al Secord for Rick Vaive, Steve Thomas, and Bob McGill.

In the 1989–90 season, Olczyk recorded an 18-game point streak, setting the record for longest point streak by an American player (later tied by Phil Kessel), the record would stand until being passed by Patrick Kane in the 2015–16 season. The 18-game streak would remain a Toronto franchise record (tied with Darryl Sittler) until being surpassed in December 2022 by Mitch Marner.

He was traded again in 1990 to the Winnipeg Jets, with Mark Osborne for Dave Ellett and Paul Fenton.

In 1992, he was traded for the third time in his career, this time to the New York Rangers for Kris King and Tie Domi. Olczyk missed much of the 1993–94 season recovering from a thumb injury suffered in a game versus the Florida Panthers on January 3, 1994; he took part in one playoff game (conference final game 6) and on June 14, 1994, became Stanley Cup champion with the Rangers.

During the next season, he was traded back to the Winnipeg Jets for their fifth-round choice (who ended up being Alexei Vasiliev) in the 1995 NHL Entry Draft. After signing as a free agent with the Los Angeles Kings in 1996, he did not finish the season with them before being traded to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Glen Murray. He finished his career in Chicago.

Post-playing career
He returned to Pittsburgh to become the color commentator for the Penguins on FSN Pittsburgh, where he was given the nickname "Edzo" by current radio announcer and then co-announcer Mike Lange. In 2003, he moved from the booth to the bench and served as head coach of the Pittsburgh Penguins from June 11, 2003, until December 15, 2005. Despite adding marquee free-agents, the Penguins started the season with a disappointing 8–17–6 record, leading to Olczyk's dismissal on December 15.

Beginning with the 2006–07 NHL season, Olczyk was the color commentator for the Chicago Blackhawks television broadcasts, partnering play-by-play announcer Pat Foley. He also was the lead color commentator for NHL on NBC, and previously for the NHL on Versus; the latter later rebranded as NBCSN in 2012, for both the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics Men's Ice Hockey and 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics, where he partnered with Mike Emrick and "Inside-the-Glass" reporter Pierre McGuire.

At the end of the 5–3 U.S. win over Canada at the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics, Olczyk described the game as being "tremendously tremendous" after U.S. forward Ryan Kesler scored an empty-netter. The audio of Olczyk saying "This has been tremendously tremendous" was an instant hit among hockey enthusiasts and was the subject of many spoofs online.

In February 2016, it was announced that Olczyk would be the recipient of the Ring Lardner Award, which was founded in 2002 by the Chicago Athletic Association and honors broadcasters and writers who "exemplify the wit and warmth of Ring Lardner's writing." On July 11, 2012, Olczyk became the 16th Blackhawks player elected into the United States Hockey Hall of Fame. The Blackhawks honored "Edzo" for his induction in a pregame ceremony on February 22, 2013, at the United Center.

In 2009, Olczyk received an Emmy for "Outstanding Achievement for Individual Excellence On Camera: Programming," followed by a 2012 Emmy for "Outstanding Achievement for Sports Programs - Sporting Event/Game - Live/Unedited Program/Special." He was also inducted into the National Italian American Sports Hall of Fame in 2013.

On April 8, 2010, Olczyk returned to Pittsburgh to join more than 50 former Pittsburgh Penguins players being honored in a pregame ceremony before the final regular season game at Civic Arena in Pittsburgh.

On December 30, 2010, it was announced that Foley and Olczyk signed a three-year extension to stay with the Blackhawks.

On May 5, 2014, EA Sports announced that "Eddie O" would provide color commentary for NHL 15 alongside play-by-play announcer Mike Emrick and "Inside-the-Glass" reporter Ray Ferraro. The trio have provided commentary for five years until Ferraro became the new color commentator in NHL 20. From 2018 to 2020, "Inside-the-Glass" reporter Brian Boucher joined the lead duo for national games. After Emrick retired, at the end of the 2020 Stanley Cup Finals, on October 19, 2020, he was paired with Kenny Albert and John Forslund for most of the regular season but was paired with Albert for the playoffs and the Stanley Cup Finals.

Albert and Olczyk joined TNT after the Finals as their lead broadcast team while NBC studio analyst Keith Jones was later added to join the pair.

Olczyk also has an interest in Thoroughbred horse racing, appearing in advertisements for Xpressbet and serving as a guest commentator and handicapper for major horse racing events such as the Kentucky Derby, Kentucky Oaks, Preakness Stakes, and the Belmont Stakes on NBC networks, and on WGN Sports coverage of the Arlington Million that is fed nationally. Despite his arrival at Turner for hockey, Olczyk's deal will allow him to remain at NBC to cover handicap horse racing.

On July 18, 2022, Olczyk left the Blackhawks following a contract dispute to join the broadcasting team for the Seattle Kraken.

Personal life
Olczyk and his wife, Diana, have three sons, all former hockey players, and one daughter. Nick played for the Colorado College Tigers and, in 2022, became a television studio analyst for the Seattle Kraken. Tom, who played hockey at Penn State, most recently played professionally for the Indy Fuel of the ECHL and the Rockford IceHogs of the AHL. Eddie III spent a season with the Bloomington Thunder of the SPHL, has been an assistant coach with the Bemidji State Beavers, and is an amateur scout for the Kraken. Olczyk's daughter Zandra attended the University of Alabama.

Rick Olczyk, Eddie's younger brother, is a former hockey player for Brown University and became an assistant general manager for the Kraken in 2019.

On August 8, 2017, Olczyk issued a statement through the Blackhawks to announce that he had been diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer, having undergone a surgical procedure to remove the tumor. Due to his chemo treatments, he only called select games that season for the team and NHL on NBC. In March 2018, Olczyk announced that he was officially "cancer-free."

In October 2019, Olczyk released his autobiography, Eddie Olczyk: Beating the Odds in Hockey and in Life, in which he shares details of his fight with stage 3 colon cancer.

Awards and achievements

 * Stanley Cup champion – 1994 (New York Rangers)
 * United States Hockey Hall of Fame 2012
 * National Polish-American Sports Hall of Fame 2004

National team

 * 1984 Winter Olympics (seventh place)
 * 1984 Canada Cup (fourth place)
 * 1987 Canada Cup (fifth place)
 * 1991 Canada Cup (second place)
 * Ice Hockey World Championships: 1985 (fourth place), 1986 (sixth place), 1987 (seventh place), 1989 (sixth place), 1993 (sixth place)

title: Eddie Olczyk


text:
Talk:Bovine somatropin

PLEASE someone get interested in this topic who knows more about farming, large animal vet medicine, or economics than I do. It's worth an article but I put the sum total of my knowledge about this on the line here, and it looks pretty puny. Thanks. Alteripse 01:34, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bovine somatropin


text:
Talk:Ruby

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2016
King of Canada Sean Robert Gehani Ruby Year 2016, 65,995 carats octagon cut. Largest known certified natural ruby in the world. Beautifully hand carved, origin India.

206.248.171.204 (talk) 21:18, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done:, I can't find any evidence in reliable sources that this ruby exists. The refs you gave are not reliable. Sarah-Jane (talk) 08:18, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

 * For the record, there were additional attempts to add this again in Dec 2018. It is presumably a hoax.  It may also be related to this sockpuppetry case:  Sockpuppet investigations/Freecomwireless.  Peacock (talk) 16:17, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2019
Add the following to section "Records and famous rubies":

• At 18,696 carats (8.2 lbs) with dimensions 122.4mm x 112.3mm x 133.9mm, the 125West Rough Ruby Crystal is the largest GIA laboratory certified ruby in the world. Thfinch (talk) 21:48, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Levivich 05:42, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Greenland rubies
I see no mention of the recent deposits of rubies found in Greenland. 2600:6C50:547F:EE05:1131:D9B3:7EAB:631F (talk) 22:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Where is the picture of a ruby?
Please! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koitus~nlwiki (talk • contribs) 17:31, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Are previews from Google Books allowed to be used for citation?
Book1 Book2 Book3 For the use of ruby in measurement probes. Cplusplusboy (talk) 13:38, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ruby


text:
Talk:Immortality/Archive 2

WikiProject Time assessment rating comment
Needs a lot of improvements, but essentially a B.

Want to help write or improve articles about Time? Join WikiProject Time or visit the Time Portal for a list of articles that need improving.

—Yamara ✉  15:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Who?
Under "Mind-to-computer uploading", it says "However, some argue that it is impossible to truly move one's consciousness from one body to another; it could be duplicated, but the original would still exist, creating two independent consciousnesses.". Who are those "some" in this case? It doesn't have to be very long. Just some explanation. NPOV of course! Ran4 00:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk Archive
I archived this talk page, as it was getting very lengthy. It was extremely disorganized, making it an ineffective means of communication. After reading through the majority of it, I found that most of the page was discussion on POV issues. Much of this page is also original research, making this article vastly unverifiable. --Balrog30 09:44, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Split
I would like to propose that this article be split into smaller articles. It is now 15 printed pages, making it far too lengthy to hold a reader's attention, and also making it very difficult to edit. Some of the topics discussed here already have articles of their own, so some of the work may just be locating these related pages and getting them up to speed. I'd like to propose that Immortality in Fiction be an article on it's own, as it is a common theme in many works of fiction and may be discussed in a more literary sense, rather than a philosophical or scientific sense as the majority of the article is in it's present state. I'm prepared to do some of the work, but I'm not an expert, so I'll need to do research to help weed out what belongs on separate pages, and what doesn't belong at all. Any help would be appreciated. Please used sub-categories to talk about the split, to keep the fresh talk page organized.--Balrog30 09:44, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

this page is very disorganized.Starovoytov 15:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Fiction section style
I have just seen Tuck Everlasting added to the fiction section. It was already mentioned once in this article and surely that is enough. I would just delete the new entry, but it was put under the Negative Effects subsection while the current reference to Tuck Everlasting is under Other. I am not sure where Tuck Everlasting best belongs.

Another issue is that I think these examples should serve to illustrate something rather than merely being a list of works of fiction involving immortality. Tuck Everlasting does explore the negative side of immortality, but the new paragraph about it does not mention that. Doesn't it make sense that every work mentioned in the Negative Effects section should be explicitly related to how immortality can have negative effects?

I think a work needs more than to merely be mentioned; it needs an explanation of why it is a notable example of immortality showing some aspect or mechanism of immortality that is not already illustrated. For example, I don't think we have anything about immortality achieved by transfering the mind of an old person to the body of an unwilling young victim, such as in Being John Malkovich and many other works.

So Being John Malkovich should be added, but not in a paragraph about Being John Malkovich; the point is not the movie. The point is the nature of the immortality of which Being John Malkovich is an example. So we do not add Tuck Everlasting just because Tuck Everlasting is a book about immortality; we find something to say about immortality that Tuck Everlasting nicely illustrates. In this way we make this article more than a mere list. — Lilwik 03:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Agreed. This is why I suggested above that the Fiction section of the article could be split off into it's own article.  This article is already far too long, and Immortality in Fiction is a complex topic that could be covered in depth.  In fact, I'm fairly confident that it is a topic with enough meat and potatoes to write and entire book about the theme of Immortality in Literature; though a Wikipedia article will suffice.  I think efforts would be better spent moving the entire Fiction section to a new article, rather than cleaning up what is in this one.--Balrog30 22:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

 * As an afterthought, I've gone through and combined the two references in the Negative Effects section. The new one was in the right place, and the old one had more detail as to why it would belong there.--Balrog30 22:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Nothing will be done People have been talking about spinning off the fiction section for a long time, look at the archived talk page. When oh when will somebody actually do it?

This article is unreadable. Slash and burn all the crap...but the crap will just come back. So do what everyone does and don't bother improving anything.

 * Surely it is far from unreadable. I think it was greatly improved by breaking the fiction section up into modestly appropriate subsections. I wouldn't mind seeing the "other" section get deleted; I expect it would improve the article overall, but I'm not the sort to go wildly deleting large chunks of articles. Other than "other", I think it is a fine article. -- Lilwik 03:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

When cruft piles up to the level of 30 kilobytes, it can leave its host to seek its fortune on its own: Immortality in fiction. You're welcome. —Yamara ✉  15:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Time
time is only the space that exists in between possibilities, it has no finite value. we exist to realize infinite possibilities so in this sense of time we are eternal beings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chabit (talk • contribs) 02:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There should be a distinction made between biological immortality and true immortality
If you just switch bodies, sure, you're immortal in a sense. But if you're shot or the sun explodes, you’re screwed. True immortality (able to see the end of the universe and beyond) is the only real type of immortality.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 01:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Cousteau's opinions in the beginning seem to be unscientific nonsense
Looks more like 'old man philosophy' than real science.
 * I read this remark as equating unscientific=nonsense. Science is only a tool, and a blunt tool at that.  It may or may not bring insight.  Immortality is such a rich well of civilized discourse and intellectual development (with universal repercussions for every living individual) that Cousteau's thoughts are just as valid as anyone else's and perhaps more valid than most.  Many people find his thinking interesting.  I also want to take this opportunity to point out that someone got REALLY carried away with the "fact" macro in the beginning of this article, sometimes requesting a citation for a sentence that essentially is a citation and sometimes requesting a citation for things that are so self-evident as to be a joke if seen otherwise (i.e. do religion and philosophy dwell on mortality?).  Bob (talk) 22:32, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

 * That might have me getting "carried away", but if you've seen what it takes to bring an article to GA—let alone FA—status, even the most "obvious" statement needs to be cited. Besides, on a subject like this, someone always wants to argue, and citations are the only acceptable way to settle. Also, I invite everyone to look at a version of this article before I worked on it (what I excised can be found here: immortality in fiction —it's still growing). If I hit every other sentence with a cite request, it's only because I want this article to be taken seriously, and not dumping ground for a list of the latest unkillable bosses in World of Warcraft. Plus, I have been looking up cites while on my current, supposed, wikibreak. —Yamara ✉  16:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed
I've removed the following revision by 87.3.151.16 as of 19:49, 2 April 2008; no cites, and not quite clear enough how it differs from the preceding grouping of religious dogmas:

 * Existential sciences like anthroposophy affirm throughout their studies that a so called oneself, namely a principle and center of human individuality, survives to the death of the physical body, proceeding to an afterlife period then reincarnating again following the karma cycle. nevertheless the humankind shares a superindividual oneself that connects together all the single individualities and that is supposed to be everlasting

Error
"In religious contexts, immortality is often stated to be among the promises by God (or other deities) to human beings who show goodness or else follow divine law."

This isn't actually held by Christians. Christians believe people are necessarily immortal (except for the few oddball annihilationists or other insignificant sects). The result of goodness is that this immortality is spent in Heaven instead of Hell. Christians hold that resurrection is guaranteed for all human beings. -~

Agree
- personally, I agree with this interpretation. To have the total faith allows to become as immortal Jesus in this world and it is necessary to ask to God to obtain it for all the human beings. Olivier Goetz ( ol.goetz@laposte.net ) in 28.10.2010

 * Again, not your personal soapbox. --~

The immortal characters because of their faith, in the Bible
The patriarch Hénoch and the prophet Élie rose to the sky without dying. Everything lets think that came true for them the word of Jesus Christ: " whoever lives and believes in me will never die " (gospel of Jean 11, 26). Their faith in God was completed. The story of these two characters leaves dreamer: could an unwavering faith in God make immortal? It is what suggests a detailed reading of gospel, like the word of Jesus which we have just quoted. Indeed, it is necessary to meditate the radicality of the word of Jesus Christ: " the follower is not over its teacher, but every well formed follower will be as its teacher " (gospel of Luc 6, 40). This word is clear: the follower who applies the teaching of Jesus Christ can also become immortal as him in this world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.64.0.100 (talk) 16:20, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Immortality as a goal
I have been developing a theme to unify the article under the concept that Immortality is goal.

Like any goal, it is not shared by all, and being an uncertainty, is not approached the same way by different interested parties. And just as I have no interest in, for example, playing basketball, at the moment, it does not mean that shooting the hoops does not remain a goal to those who are. My edits to the Buddhism section reflect this: an incarnate immortality is not a goal, and indeed even the seeking of a goal would be too egoistic to achieve nirvana. But that does not mean it is not sought, whether through faith or by technology (or both).

I am confident this insight is not original research, and is mainly presented as an organizational tool for the article. --Yamara ✉  17:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC) GEARS OF WAR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.79.168 (talk) 17:09, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Quote from Cousteau is not science, just his opinion
If he thinks evolution is mandatory, that's his opinion. The cockroaches and ants might not agree with him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.193.144.79 (talk) 09:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is still an accurate statement in the light of biological immortality being no guard against trauma. As for evolution, he says nothing about it being mandatory, but about its being fundamental to survival, which is certainly on-topic for evolution (survival of the fittest). He only says that death is mandatory, which is on-topic for this article. Cheers, Yamara ✉  17:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Removed text from Causes of death—aging
"Note on this section: This of course is assuming that the first reason for aging, cell loss without replacement, isn't actually the only true reason the rest occur. When one looks at any of the other 'reasons' for aging, one can see that with the same level of cell reproduction as a 20 year old, a person that were 40, 60, or 80 would have a siginificantly higher liklihood of survival, and therefore less pronounced aging. It's entirely possible that if we were to solve the cell reproduction issue, that all of the rest would fall in line. We are also talking about normal, healthy 20 year olds, and comparing them to normal, healthy 40, 60, and 80 year olds. Confusing aging with pathology or disease would be an easily made mistake. Our bodies are designed to repair themselves. Given the material of a never ending cell supply, it could easily be conjectured that we would become essentially immortal. See below. Biological Immortality" This needed citations (WP:V) to remain, and the the first-person pronouns were not in keeping with the WP:MOS. -Yamara ✉  12:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't have the source handy but some theorists see reduction in cell division as merely an effect and not a cause of the primary senescence mechanisms as evidenced by modest differences in aging rates seen in mitotic tissues such as fibroblasts vs non mitotic tissues such as neurons. Lack of mitosis doesn't appear to accelerate senescence and unimpeded mitosis doesn't appear to offer any protective effect.  I think wound healing was one of the exceptions they mentioned where reduced mitotic potential would be significant.Zebulin (talk) 06:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The cause of reduced cell division is the cell's telomere running out. --Andreasvc (talk) 23:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

citation needed
I am seeing a ton of these citation needed tags every where. Could someone ether take out the tags are put in the citations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.154.225 (talk) 02:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Putting citations in would be great. Just taking tags out leaves us with either 1) A bunch of unverified assertions or 2) A much more piecemeal article, since the unverified statements could simply be removed. This article has come a long way since it was cobbled together with transhumanist imaginings, a fiction section that took up half of it, and work by an editor that wanted everyone to know what every religion thought about Hell. Much of this is still in the article: the cite tags I put in are either by statements that I believe can be cited, or such strong assertions that I feel need to be backed up.
 * Immortality is an ancient obsession with mankind, but it's still impossible to achieve for certain: thus, statements confusing fact and fiction have to be flagged. I have mentioned the numerous cite tags before, in this archived talk page-- and I have replaced a couple since then myself. I'm going on a "wikibreak" for awhile, but anyone who has citations to add or improve should certainly do so. Cheers, Yamara ✉  03:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Myth section
Found this old text hidden on the page, and decided to move it here:

"THIS OLD STUFF MIGHT GO IN A MYTH SECTION: The depiction in literature of Gilgamesh was one such as this and an entire cycle, or cycles of Arthurian legend exist in the British Isles, including the Knights of the Round Table going in search for the Holy grail; supposedly, the chalice from which Jesus and his disciples drank at the Last Supper. It may also be taken to mean being invincible or unable to be killed."

--Yamara ✉  18:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Dualism
I removed a statement that immortality has its foundation in dualism. It wasn't referenced and wasn't true. The Christian belief in immortality is not based in dualism, for example. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Disposable soma theory
What does the "disposable soma theory" have to do with evolution? --Ernie 76 (talk) 00:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Unsuitable heading "Prospects for human physical immortality"
Imo a better wording would be "Prospects for human immortality" as a subsection concerns mind uploading which is no longer about keeping the original physical body at all. --Ernie 76 (talk) 00:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Consequences
Very much of the page seems centered around achieving immortality, but I would like to see more about possible consequences of achieving immortality, such as extreme population growth or insanity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.67.6.36 (talk) 07:59, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree, and I am opening up an item here on dilemmas involving immortality.Julzes (talk) 06:48, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Aubrey de Grey on immortality
I would like to point out that Aubrey de Grey believes that indefinite youth, not immortality, is achievable within a couple of decades: "despite my best efforts, the media predictably describe my work as an attempt to engineer “immortality.” Let me, therefore, be quite clear: That description is erroneous. Immortality is not what I’m engineering. Aging is one cause of death—a very common one, to be sure, killing roughly twice as many people worldwide as all other causes of death combined, but still just one cause." (p6–10) I will correct this mistake in the article. --Green06 (talk) 22:50, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Dilemmas
The hypotheticals on the feasibility of immortality for the individual should, in my opinion, be joined to features of ourselves and our environment that have to be weighed against the achievement of immortality. Here is a list of questions: 1) Would we choose it over having children? 2) Would we constantly be saddled with questions of who should die? 3) Would we be able to move beyond our own planet at a satisfactory rate? 4) Would the sense of time change in a mentally hazardous way? 5) Would we, in fact, be violating some God's law and not know it? At any rate, I myself do not feel comfortable adding such a collection of material, but perhaps some more experienced wikipedian would.Julzes (talk) 07:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Symbols
This section is entirely unsourced and confusing. For instance, "the ten kanji" is mentioned, but it's unclear whether this refers to the kanji for the number 10 or a kanji pronounced "ten" (such as 天, heaven). Exploding Boy (talk) 06:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Bacteria
Why only bacteria included? Are not the eukariotic protists immortal? For example, amoeba? --Dojarca (talk) 12:45, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Real Immortal
can this be mentioned? www. nowpublic. com/culture/summary-facts-my-story-about-finding-real-immortal

an actual account of a man who has lived for 2,800 years. A real actual Biological Immortal Human.The Unbeholden (talk) 05:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Since it comes from a single source, I believe that it does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability WP:NOTE. If it ever does reach the standard of notability, it would go under List of people claimed to be immortal, until accredited biologists confirmed how "real actual" the claim was; such a genuine confirmation would reach notability rapidly on its own. -<b style="color:#FF3300;">Yamara</b> ✉  18:23, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

physical immortality vs heat death of universe
Perusing the article, I saw no discussion of the compatibility (or incompatibility) of human physical immortality with the currently-projected heat (or other) death of the universe.

For example, if mind uploading becomes possible, and we create ever more sophisticated computers which can outlast, e.g. the death of the earth, the death of the solar system, then we eventually must overcome the death of *everything*; the evaporation of the last black hole, the decay of the last proton, the loss of the last free erg of energy, and the unbounded expansion of space, leading to the inevitable maximization of entropy.

Of course, mind uploading and other significant life-extension technologies may give us enough time to discover we're wrong about the heat (or other) death of the universe, and that the universe itself may be immortal, and of course I wouldn't mind a few extra countless eons of existence, even if it is bounded, but I think this topic is worth a mention in the article (by someone who more knowledge of the topic than I do).

98.14.192.146 (talk) 00:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Ah, this is an interesting hack to achieve perceived immortality in a mortal universe. Clever.

Physical - Spiritual...
Should Physical Immortality and Spiritual Immortality not have their own seperate articles?210.185.9.87 (talk) 01:29, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of 'Immortal'
'Word "Immortal" is driven from The month in Iranian calendar "Amurdad" '

Is this true? I assumed it derived from some Latin word, like 'mort' or whatever the appropriate word for death is. I accept the possibility that this in turn was derived from ancient Persian, but there is no citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.141.52.251 (talk) 22:24, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes, I think somebody is confusing this with the term "Paradise", which does come from Avestan (Av. pairidaēza > Gr. παράδεισος > Lat. paradīsus; the original Avestan word referred to a circular fenced enclosure, and was applied to royal gardens); Immortal comes from Latin in (not) + mortālis (subject to death, mortal; transitory, perishable; human, earthly). --Wtrmute (talk) 17:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Wittgenstein's quote
What is the purpose of Wittgenstein's quote in this article? It has nothing to do with immortality as conceived in this article, its a grammatical observation about limits, and the vocabularies which exist only within those limits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.65.124.182 (talk) 11:47, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Christianity
"Contrary to common belief, there is no biblical support of 'soul immortality' as such in the New Testament. " A few minutes work provided these examples: Jesus's words to the criminal crucified with him (Luke 23:43) "this night you will sup with me in Paradise" Simon's final prayer (Acts 7:59) "Lord recieve my spirit" Paul's desire to die and be with Jesus (Philippians 1:23)"For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better." Peter regards his body as a 'tent' to be discarded. (2 Peter 1:13&14)

Or even OT, with Samuel's ghost appearing to Saul (1 Samuel 28). These are only the ones I could remember offhand, so can this section be deleted? Doesn't violate wiki terms anyway, as new 'research'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.44.24 (talk) 11:07, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Pointless Citation Needed tag.
the sentence: "iological forms have inherent limitations which may or may not be able to be overcome through medical interventions or engineering." has a citation needed tag. For some reason. i may be missing something but wouldnt "may or may not be able to.." be one of those "the sky is blue" type things? 74.132.249.206 (talk) 02:52, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I came to the discussion page to make the same point, so seconded. There is no evidence to cite that immortality is possible. There is no evidence to cite that immortality is impossible. Thus, it may or may not possible - the statement requires no citation because it is a comment on a lack of evidence, (You could cite every piece of evidence in history for all knowledge, demonstrating that non of it proves or disproves the point, if you really wanted to add a citation...)

"It may or may not rain in London at 09:31 on 7th July 2129" - to ask me to prove (read 'cite') this, would be meaningless at best. To clarify, I think the sentence is absolutely fine, just the tag needs removing. --81.110.127.136 (talk) 20:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Is 81.110.127.136 suggesting that the above example about London rain in 2129 should be properly included within the London article? I think not, because it is entirely not relevant. The situation is the same here, and the problem will be solved if the current 2nd sentence in lead "It is unknown whether human physical immortality is an achievable condition." is simply deleted as not verifiable, and not relevant. Dartroom (talk) 17:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

 * No citation is needed, by the Law of excluded middle, for the current sentence, but it would be for a sentence that isn't tautologically true, as in "It is unknown whether human physical immortality is an achievable condition." Unfortunately, it's hard to argue that this is irrelevant, since it's likely the top interest of article readers. Why not find a recent source saying that whether or not it is possible is currently unknown? --Wragge (talk) 18:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

my thoughts on lead in
I'm not suggesting the page is flawed, but I think it would be more interesting if the lead in paragraph emphasized as many viewpoints as possible pertaining to philosophical immortality. Specifically, the idea that instantly came to mind was how immortality could be a philosophy stating that life is immortal as a whole being & perhaps the fundamental force in the generation of matter in the universe. It is true that the predominant astronomical view of matter is that it is created 'in' start, but in the context I am presenting, it is created 'by' stars on planets, like... say... Earth? I don't know if there are any works out there on this topic, thats why I'm posting. Its just an interesting take on the idea I've never heard of. perhaps its in the article already... not sure...  any insight? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.85.222 (talk) 17:27, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Lede changes
Im in the process of making some vital changes to the lede, in particular the addition of a paragraph on the religious concept of immortality. This is an especially important point of view, one which hinges on the distinction between a material body, which eventually dies from something, and a "spirit" body - one that has no material flaws, and therefore can live eternally.

There is a brief note about biological immortality of the jellyfish - I dont think this belongs in the first paragraph, so I hid that text in the article body, until I can remember how to make footnotes again. It may be reworked into a note about biological immortality, which seems relevant to this article lede. -Stevertigo (t | c) 00:27, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

timelessness
In my opinion, timelessness is a state were time does not affect you. For this to happen you would need to escape time and space completely. Time is like a massive set of picture frames. Each moment is capture by a camera and then placed together to form time. even as i type this it is always happening When i type this word a different me typed it before me and i typed it before a different me and it is a never ending cycle everything you do everything you think happened before you and happens after you. However that is just a way of thinking of it. All of it is happening at the same time because of times physical form. also known as space. The multiverse is a collection of all of the parallel universes that are each a moment apart. remember when you were in grade school, and you took your first test. Right now a different you is taking that exact same test, and a different you is doing something in that you have know idea will happen to you. Still yet another you is dieing somewhere out there in a parallel world. In order to achieve timelessness you must leave existance and still retain your memory your existance that is the only way that makes sence to me of how to achieve timelessness or immortality because there is no such thing as biological imortallity simply because of your mind. it CAN NOT withstand time. even if you biologically enginere someones body to never age, the mind or the most important part of existance can't that is why my opinion or hypothesis is the only one that makes since to me. Deoblo299 (talk) 10:42, 29 June 2012 (UTC)Time and Space relativityDeoblo299 (talk) 10:42, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Good Source
The definition of this article is true from the sources, because it is an ability and a trait, while the word "Invincibility" is the actual word for being untouched or harmless from anything and anyone, and possibly live forever. Thus, Immortality, is one web out of many powerful source phrases creating the huge spider web of "Invincibility", thus the article is a good source, this is the reason there's a difference between Immortality and Invincibility.—GoShow(...........) 00:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't this note people who do not age do to unkown disorders?
Such as Gabby Williams? 108.217.45.210 (talk) 02:29, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Immortality/Archive 2


text:
Talk:Crow T. Robot

The Crow effect
I rephrased the text on the Crow effect and provided an example. I think I got the gist of it, as I've heard many examples on the show, but not being a "MSTing author", I'm not positive. Also, I'm sure there are better examples in the canon of MST3K episodes, so if someone knows one, please feel free to replace mine. (Please include an episode reference if you do so.) -- Jeff Q 01:40, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

UNIX
According to "Monster A go-go" he runs on UNIX but can use other OSs. I don't know where this'd fit in best so I'll just leave it here... 68.39.174.238 11:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The Unix quib and other technical facts (bubble memory, etc.) may be interesting. 68.116.112.204 (talk) 04:35, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Hockey mask
"an ice hockey mask head (Cooper XL7 FG)" I recently saw "making of mst3k" and they said it was a lacross mask.

CTR, grandson of Lady Elaine Fairchilde?
It's only just now dawned on me that the design of Crow bears quite a resemblance to Wayland Flowers' Madame puppet. Have there ever been any comments in-show or otherwise that imply this was intentional? If it was, I can't see Joel not making a joke about it sooner or later. Asat 02:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

ridiculous
that a puppet from a television show has an article as big as this (or even an article at all!). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.182.8.254 (talk) 06:13, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Crow T. Robot. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050308223307/http://www.quasispace.org/joinus/QPTFAQ.htm to http://quasispace.org/joinus/QPTFAQ.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:45, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Crow T. Robot on the Satellite of Love.jpg

title: Talk:Crow T. Robot


text:
The Council (Star Trek: Enterprise)

"The Council" is the seventy-fourth episode of the American science fiction television series Star Trek: Enterprise, the twenty-second episode of season three. It first aired on May 12, 2004, on the UPN network in the United States. The episode was the fifth of the series written by Manny Coto, and it was directed by David Livingston, his fourth of the third season.

Set in the 22nd century, the series follows the adventures of the first Starfleet starship Enterprise, registration NX-01. Season three of Enterprise features an ongoing story following an attack on Earth by previously unknown aliens called the Xindi. In this episode, Captain Jonathan Archer (Scott Bakula) attempts to convince the Xindi Council not to use their super-weapon on Earth. Meanwhile, Sub-commander T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) leads an away team to a nearby sphere to attempt to retrieve a data core in order to get more information on the Sphere-Builders.

The episode featured several returning guest stars, including Randy Oglesby, Tucker Smallwood, Josette DiCarlo and Sean McGowan. Additional sets were required for the scenes at the Xindi Council, while the sets for Degra's ship had been created for an earlier episode. Although most scenes were filmed between February 12 and 23, the scenes featuring the Sphere-Builders were filmed in conjunction with the following episode on February 26. Two reviewers praised the episode, and it was nominated for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Special Visual Effects. There was a slight increase in ratings with the episode earning a 3.4/5% audience share, translating into approximately 3.35 million viewers.

Plot
Enterprise is en route to the Xindi Council. Under escort by Degra's ship, Captain Archer is briefed on the five member species of the Council. Other friendly Xindi ships soon join the escort. As they approach the planet, the flagship of Reptilian Commander Dolim intervenes. After a tense standoff, Dolim backs down. On the planet, Archer and Ensign Sato enter the Council chamber and present their evidence to the gathered representatives; Dolim, angered at the move, walks out in protest. A Guardian appears to him later, promising Reptilian dominance if he continues their original plan.

Meanwhile, a shuttlepod containing Sub-Commander T'Pol, Lieutenant Reed, Ensign Mayweather and MACO Corporal Hawkins, investigate a nearby sphere in order to try to collect more data on the Sphere Builders (who are now becoming increasingly concerned with the human threat). The shuttle enters a concealed exhaust vent, and reaching the core, the team retrieve a memory module. The intrusion activates an automated defense system, and Hawkins is killed helping the others escape.

Doctor Phlox and Commander Tucker create a holographic version of the Sphere Builder (from "Harbinger") which Archer presents to the Council. Many admit its resemblance to the Guardian race, a people who the Xindi both revere and worship for helping them after the destruction of Xindus. The Guardians have claimed that they are protecting the Xindi from the spheres. The Council votes to delay the weapon's launch, with even Dolim agreeing. That night, Dolim confronts and murders Degra as revenge for the destruction of a Reptilian ship. At the next meeting, Dolim openly admits the death (and Reptilian primacy) and the Reptilian and Insectoid members leave. They soon launch the super-weapon, escorted by Dolim with his flagship. With both Enterprise and friendly Xindi vessels in pursuit, Dolim kidnaps Sato and disappears into a subspace vortex.

Production
Filming on "The Council" began on February 12, 2004, and concluded on February 23, having taken seven days to film with shooting placed on hold for Presidents' Day. The exception to this was the scenes featuring Sphere-Builders which were shot in conjunction with the following episode, "Countdown", on February 26. Manny Coto wrote "The Council", his fifth episode for Enterprise. David Livingston directed the episode, which was his fourth of the season – tying Roxann Dawson for the most episodes during season three. It was the second time that Coto and Livingston had collaborated on an episode, having previously worked together on "Harbinger".

A number of temporary sets were built for the episode, including those for the Xindi Council, which were meant to be originally created in-universe by the extinct avian race of Xindi. The sets for Degra's ship continued to be used, and the Enterprise sets still featured damage following the actions in earlier episodes. "The Council" featured a larger than normal number of guest actors to represent various members of the Xindi Council. These included Tucker Smallwood as the Primate Council Member; He had previously appeared in the role earlier in the season in "The Xindi" and "Rajiin". Smallwood had also appeared elsewhere in the genre in Space: Above and Beyond as Commodore Ross. Sean McGowan made his fourth and final appearance of the series in "The Council", while Randy Oglesby also made his final appearance as Degra. Josette DiCarlo returned as a female Sphere-Builder, after first appearing in "Damage", while Mary Mara and Ruth Williamson both made their Enterprise debuts as other Sphere-Builders.

Reception
"The Council" was first aired on May 12, 2004 on UPN. It received a 3.4/5% share, meaning that it was seen by 3.4 percent of all households, and 5 percent of all households watching television at the time of the broadcast. This translated to approximately 3.35 million viewers. It was a slight increase on the ratings received by the previous episode "E²", which was viewed by a 3.3% audience share.

Michelle Erica Green watched the episode for TrekNation, calling it a "taut, tense action episode" with predictable plot twists that still felt "wrenching" when revealed. Although she felt that the launch of the super-weapon was outweighed by the murder of Degra, she found the episode "quite engrossing" and thought "The Council" demonstrated that Enterprise was "coming into its own". Jamahl Epsicokhan, for his website Jammer's Reviews, said that the death of Degra was a shame as he was the "season's most pivotal and interesting character". He said that the shot of the super-weapon being launched was a "terrific and fearsome shot", and gave the episode a score of 3.5 out of 4.

The episode was nominated for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Special Visual Effects, but lost to the team that worked on the episode "Countdown".

The Digital Fix said this was an episode that "gets back to the heart of Star Trek."

Home media release
The first home media release of "The Council" was as part of the season three DVD box set, released in the United States on September 27, 2005. The Blu-ray release of Enterprise was announced in early 2013, and released on January 7, 2014.

title: The Council (Star Trek: Enterprise)


text:
Frumpy the Clown

Frumpy the Clown is a comic-strip written and illustrated by Judd Winick and appeared from 1996 to 1998.

Although it only ran for two years and appeared only in 30 newspapers (the largest being the Chicago Sun-Times), it had a fair sized fan base.

The strip began when Brad Bragg, a 10-year-old kid, brought back a clown to live with his family. The parents were reluctant, but since the kids loved him, they decided to let him stay.

Frumpy is a far cry from a normal clown. Though he has the white face, green hair, red nose, huge feet and polka-dotted jumpsuit one might expect, he's fairly grouchy, a chain-smoker, and twice divorced. He doesn't enjoy being stereotyped as an entertainer, and doesn't do magic tricks, balloon animals, or comedy bits. He does love children, however, and teaches elementary school in order to help kids grow up right in the modern world. In the summer, he works as a camp counselor.

Characters other than Frumpy include Mike and Mona Bragg, parents, and their kids Kim and Brad. The Bragg family was Jewish, setting them apart from the average generic comic strip family. This fact was not treated as a big deal, and was only an important plot point in one storyline. (See below)

Other characters include Nana (Mike's mother), Principal Carr (principal of Vanderbilt Elementary School, where Frumpy teaches), Lumus (Mike Braggs' cousin) and the Bragg family's cat Frodo (although the cat was introduced in January 1997, her name wasn't revealed until May 1998).

Although this strip is mostly comedy, it did have some serious moments. For example, in one storyline Nana was revealed a Holocaust survivor.

Unfortunately, the strip ran into controversy. Many parents complained that this strip was inappropriate and unsuitable. At the same time, the cartoonist became burnt out and grew tired of doing the strip.

The strip ended with a week-long storyline where the clown announced the family he's moving out. The clown rode down the street on an elephant while the family gave him a teary good-bye.

title: Frumpy the Clown


text:
Ron Wilson (ice hockey, born 1955)

Ronald Lawrence Wilson (born May 28, 1955) is a Canadian-American former professional ice hockey player and head coach. In his coaching career in the National Hockey League (NHL), he has coached the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Washington Capitals, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs. He also was head coach of the United States men's national ice hockey team at the 1998 and 2010 Winter Olympics. Wilson holds dual citizenship of the United States and Canada.

Personal life
Wilson was born in Windsor, Ontario, and raised in Fort Erie, Ontario. He moved from Fort Erie to Riverside, Rhode Island, when he was 12 years old. As a result, Wilson holds dual citizenship of Canada and the United States, and has represented Team USA in both playing and coaching.

Both his father, Larry Wilson, and his uncle, Johnny Wilson, played for the Detroit Red Wings in the 1950s and later coached in the NHL.

Wilson and his wife Maureen have two daughters, Kristen and Lauren.

In December 2016, Wilson suffered a stroke and underwent rehabilitation.

Collegiate
Wilson began playing with Providence College in 1973–74, where he led the Friars in scoring in his rookie season with 16 goals and 38 points in 26 games, helping the Friars reach the ECAC quarter-finals, where they were defeated by the Harvard Crimson, 9–3.

In the 1974–75 season, Wilson broke out offensively, scoring 26 goals and 87 points in 27 games, helping the Friars into the ECAC tournament for the second consecutive season. In the tournament, the Friars would lose in the quarter-finals to the Vermont Catamounts, 7–5.

Wilson had another solid season with the Friars in 1975–76, scoring 19 goals and 66 points in 28 games, though the team struggled and failed to ultimately qualify for the tournament.

In his final season at Providence, in 1976–77, Wilson's offense declined, though he still put up solid numbers, scoring 17 goals and 59 points in 30 games to lead the team in scoring. Providence qualified for the tournament as the eighth seed, but lost to Clarkson 6–3 in the quarter-finals.

Professional career
Wilson was drafted by the Toronto Maple Leafs in the eighth round, 132nd overall, at the 1975 NHL Entry Draft. He was also drafted by the Houston Aeros in the 1974 WHA Amateur Draft, but opted to sign instead with the Maple Leafs and pursue an NHL career.

Wilson saw his first professional action in the 1976–77 season after his college hockey career was over, where he appeared in four games with the Dallas Black Hawks of the Central Hockey League (CHL), scoring a goal.

Wilson began the 1977–78 season with the Black Hawks, where in 67 games, he scored 31 goals and 69 points to lead the team in scoring. He earned a late-season promotion to the NHL and played in 13 games with the Maple Leafs, scoring two goals and three points. Wilson did not see any playing time in the post-season, however, as the Maple Leafs lost to the Montreal Canadiens in the third round of the playoffs.

He split the 1978–79 season between the New Brunswick Hawks of the American Hockey League (AHL), as in 31 games, Wilson had 11 goals and 32 points, and the Maple Leafs. In Toronto, Wilson played in 46 games, scoring five goals and 17 points. He appeared in three playoff games for Toronto, earning an assist, as the Leafs lost to the Montreal Canadiens in the quarter-finals.

Wilson spent the majority of the 1979–80 season in New Brunswick, where in 43 games, he scored 20 goals and 63 points to finish fourth in team scoring. He appeared in only five games with the Maple Leafs, earning two assists. Wilson skated for the Leafs in the post-season, where he scored a goal and three points in three games as Toronto was swept by the Minnesota North Stars in the first round. He returned to the Hawks for the Calder Cup playoffs, and in 14 games, Wilson had three goals and five points, as New Brunswick lost to the Hershey Bears in the final round.

Wilson signed with EHC Kloten of NDA in Switzerland for 1980–81, where in 38 games, Wilson scored 22 goals and 45 points.

After only one season with Kloten, Wilson signed with HC Davos for the 1981–82 season. In 38 games, Wilson scored 24 goals and 47 points, helping the team finish in second place.

In 1982–83, Wilson improved his offense to 32 goals and 64 points in 36 games, as Davos finished the first round of the season with a League-best 20–0–8 record, before slumping to a 3–2–5 record in the final round to finish the season in third place.

Wilson saw more improvement with his offense in 1983–84, scoring 33 goals and 72 points in 36 games, helping Davos win the championship.

In 38 games in the 1984–85, Wilson scored 39 goals and 101 points, leading the club to their second-straight Swiss championship.

Following his season with Davos, Wilson returned to the NHL and signed with the Minnesota North Stars for the remainder of the 1984–85 season. In 13 games, Wilson had four goals and 12 points, helping the club secure the fourth and final playoff position in the Norris Division. In nine playoff games, Wilson had a goal and seven points, as Minnesota swept the first place St. Louis Blues before losing to the Chicago Black Hawks in the division finals.

Wilson returned to HC Davos in Switzerland for the 1985–86 season after his late-season stint with the North Stars in 1984–85. In 27 games, Wilson scored 28 goals and 69 points, helping the club into the post-season. In five playoff games, Wilson had six goals and eight points, however, HC Davos lost to HC Lugano in the final round.

For the second consecutive season, Wilson joined the North Stars after his season with HC Davos, and finished 1985–86 with Minnesota, scoring a goal and four points in 11 games, helping the club finish in second place in the Norris Division. In the 1986 playoffs, Wilson had two goals and six points in five games, as Minnesota lost to the St. Louis Blues in the division semi-finals.

Wilson remained with the North Stars in 1986–87, as in a career-high 65 games, he had 12 goals and 41 points to finish second among North Stars defensemen in team scoring, however, the club struggled and failed to qualify for the post-season.

Wilson began the 1987–88 season with the North Stars, where in 24 games, he scored two goals and 14 points. He played in his last NHL game on December 16, 1987, earning an assist in a 4–2 loss to the Chicago Blackhawks. Shortly after the game, the North Stars released Wilson.

Following his release from Minnesota, Wilson rejoined HC Davos to finish the 1987–88 season in Switzerland. In 36 games, Wilson had eight goals and 32 points and in six playoff games, he had two goals and seven points, as HC Davos finished in fourth place.

After the season, Wilson announced his retirement as a player.

Milwaukee Admirals (1989–1990)
Wilson joined the Milwaukee Admirals of the International Hockey League (IHL) as an assistant coach, working under Head Coach Ron Lapointe. In his only season with the Admirals, the club finished with a 36–39–7 record, finishing in third place in the West Division. In the playoffs, the Admirals lost to the Salt Lake Golden Eagles in the first round.

Vancouver Canucks (1990–1993)
Wilson joined the Vancouver Canucks coaching staff as an assistant coach under Bob McCammon in the 1990–91 season. After the Canucks struggled to a 19–30–5 record, the club fired McCammon and replaced him with Pat Quinn. Wilson remained as an assistant, and under Quinn, the Canucks went 9–13–4 to sneak into the fourth and final playoff spot in the Smythe Division. In the 1991 post-season, the Canucks lost to the Los Angeles Kings in six games in the first round.

In 1991–92, Vancouver improved their point total by 31 points, as the team finished the year with a 42–26–12 record, finishing in first place in the Smythe Division. The heavily favoured Canucks managed to defeat the Winnipeg Jets in seven games before falling to the Edmonton Oilers in six games in the Smythe Division Finals.

Vancouver improved their point total once again in 1992–93, going 46–29–9, earning 101 points and their second consecutive Smythe Division title. In the 1993 playoffs, the Canucks defeated the Winnipeg Jets in the first round before losing to the Los Angeles Kings in the division finals.

After the season, Wilson left the Canucks and became the first head coach of the expansion team Mighty Ducks of Anaheim.

Mighty Ducks of Anaheim (1993–1997)
Wilson became the first head coach of the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim for the 1993–94 season. On October 8, 1993, his first game as an NHL head coach, Wilson and the Mighty Ducks lost to the Detroit Red Wings, 7–2. He won his first game on October 13, defeating the Edmonton Oilers 4–3. The team finished the season with 33–46–5 record for 71 points, falling short of the 1993 playoffs.

The Mighty Ducks continued to struggle in the following season, 1994–95, finishing 16–27–5 in the lockout-shortened season to post the poorest record in the Western Conference.

Anaheim made a big improvement in 1995–96, however, as the club went 35–39–8 record (78 points). Nonetheless, Wilson and the Mighty Ducks' efforts came just shy of qualifying for the 1996 playoffs, finishing one spot out of post-season contention, ninth, in the Conference. Despite accumulating the same point total as the eighth-placed Winnipeg Jets, they lost the tie-breaker separating the two, as they finished with one fewer win.

The Mighty Ducks continued their improvement in 1996–97 season, finishing with their first-ever winning record, 36–33–13, and qualifying for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the first time in team history. In the post-season, Anaheim defeated the Phoenix Coyotes in seven games before being swept by the Detroit Red Wings in the second round. Despite team improvement, on May 20, 1997, the Mighty Ducks fired Wilson.

Washington Capitals (1997–2002)
On June 9, 1997, the Washington Capitals hired Wilson to become the head coach of the team, replacing Jim Schoenfeld after the club failed to reach the playoffs in 1996–97.

In his first season with the Capitals, Wilson led the team to a 40–30–12 record, a 17-point improvement over the previous season's total, as Washington qualified for the 1998 playoffs. In the post-season, the fourth-seeded Capitals defeated the Boston Bruins in the first round, then the Ottawa Senators and Buffalo Sabres to reach the 1998 Stanley Cup Finals, the first time the team reached the Finals in their 24 years of existence. In the Finals, however, the Capitals were swept in four games by the Detroit Red Wings, who won their second consecutive Stanley Cup.

Washington regressed in the subsequent 1998–99 season, going 31–45–6 record and finishing 12th in the Eastern Conference, well out of a playoff spot.

The Capitals, however, rebounded in 1999–2000, as they won the Southeast Division with a 44–24–12–2 record and finished in second place in the East. In the 2000 playoffs, the Capitals were upset by the Pittsburgh Penguins in five games in the first round.

The Capitals won their second consecutive Southeast Division title in 2000–01, going 41–27–10–4 and earning 96 points, solid enough for a third-place finish in the Eastern Conference. In the 2001 playoffs, however, the Capitals were once again upset by the Pittsburgh Penguins, who won the series in six games.

In the summer of 2001, the Capitals acquired superstar Jaromír Jágr from the Penguins and were thought to be a Stanley Cup contender for 2001–02. Despite the high-profile acquisition, the club struggled for much of the season, posting a 36–33–11–2 record and finishing in ninth place in the East, out of the 2002 playoffs. On May 10, 2002, the Capitals fired Wilson after their disappointing season.

San Jose Sharks (2002–2008)
On December 4, 2002, Wilson was hired by the San Jose Sharks, who had recently fired Darryl Sutter and had a 9–12–2–2 record at the time Wilson was hired. Under Wilson, the Sharks continued to struggle, however, going 19–25–7–6 and failing to make the 2003 playoffs.

In his first full season with San Jose, (2003–04), Wilson turned around the team, leading them to a 43–21–12–6 record for 104 points, a first-place finish in the Pacific Division and a second-place finish in the Western Conference. In the 2004 Stanley Cup playoffs, the Sharks defeated the St. Louis Blues and Colorado Avalanche to advance to the Western Conference Finals. Despite being favored to win the series, the Calgary Flames, buoyed by the play of newly acquired goaltender — and former Shark — Miikka Kiprusoff, upset San Jose in six games.

Wilson remained with the Sharks during the 2004–05 season, which was cancelled due to the 2004–05 NHL lockout.

The Sharks remained a top team in 2005–06 when play resumed, as the club went 44–27–11 for 99 points. In mid-season, the Sharks were involved in a trade that brought Joe Thornton to the club from the Boston Bruins. In the 2006 playoffs, the Sharks defeated the Nashville Predators in the first round before falling to the eighth-seeded Edmonton Oilers in the second round.

San Jose continued to improve in 2006–07, as the team won 50 games for the first time in club history, going 51–26–5 for 107 points and clinching another playoff berth. In the 2007 post-season, the Sharks defeated the Nashville Predators for the second-straight season, but lost to the Detroit Red Wings in the second round. With his team's loss to the Red Wings, Wilson became the first head coach in NHL history to lose to the same team while coaching three different teams (including Anaheim in 1997 and Washington in 1998).

The Sharks improved their point total again in 2007–08, as they went 49–23–10, earning 108 points and having the best record in the Pacific Division and claiming the second seed in the Western Conference. In the 2008 playoffs, the Sharks narrowly defeated the Calgary Flames in seven games before losing to the underdog Dallas Stars in six games in the second round. On May 12, 2008, the Sharks fired Wilson, as the club failed to meet management's playoff aspirations.

Toronto Maple Leafs (2008–2012)
On June 10, 2008, the Toronto Maple Leafs hired Wilson to become the team's head coach, replacing Paul Maurice. Upon his hiring, Toronto had not made the playoffs since 2003–04.

In Wilson's first year with the Leafs, 2008–09, the club went 34–35–13, earning 81 points for last place in the Northeast Division and 12th in the Eastern Conference.

The Maple Leafs continued to struggle in 2009–10, finishing with a 30–38–14 record, earning 74 points and a last place finish in the Eastern Conference. Before season's end, the Maple Leafs traded away their two first-round draft picks — and a second-rounder — to the Boston Bruins in exchange for Phil Kessel, also adding defenseman Dion Phaneuf from the Calgary Flames to the club midway through the season.

Toronto saw some improvement in 2010–11, as the Leafs finished with a record of 37–34–11 (85 points). Despite the improvement, the club failed to reach the 2011 playoffs, finishing in tenth place in the East.

In 2011–12, the final year of Wilson's contract, the Maple Leafs shot off to a solid start to begin the season. On December 26, 2011, the team had an 18–13–4 record and were sitting in a playoff position. Maple Leafs General Manager Brian Burke then signed Wilson to a contract extension. Shortly after the contract extension, however, the Maple Leafs began to slump, as they would go 11–15–3 in their next 29 games to fall out of playoff contention. On March 2, 2012, the Maple Leafs fired Wilson, replacing him with Randy Carlyle, who had himself just recently been fired as head coach by the Anaheim Ducks. Toronto had a 29–28–7 record at the time of Wilson's termination.

International career
Wilson first coached internationally at the 1996 IIHF World Championship in Vienna, where he guided the United States to a bronze medal, the country's first medal at the tournament in 34 years. Later that year, he was named the team's coach at the 1996 World Cup of Hockey, where he led the Americans to the tournament championship.

Following this success, Wilson again coached the Americans at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, where they went a disappointing 1–3, defeating only Belarus and being eliminated by the Czech Republic in the quarter-finals.

In April 2009, Wilson was named the head coach for the U.S. Olympic hockey team for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. The team went undefeated through round robin play and advanced through the knockout stages, eventually losing to the hosts Canada in the final in overtime; the team won the silver medal.

On June 4, 2015, USA Hockey announced that Wilson would be the head coach for the men's under-20 team at the 2016 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships in Helsinki, Finland.

Coaching style
As a coach, Wilson is well known for integrating technology into his coaching plans. During his stint with the Washington Capitals, he and assistant coach Tim Hunter introduced personal computers into the team's strategy planning and burned DVDs of Capitals games for the team to review. In his stint with the San Jose Sharks, Wilson introduced a tablet computer to be used in the team bench by himself or his assistants to instantly plan out strategies and review plays.

Broadcasting career
In early 2015, Wilson joined the TSN Hockey panel as an analyst.

title: Ron Wilson (ice hockey, born 1955)