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Talk:Kunrei-shiki romanization

Certain of the information presented on this page appears to be grossly inaccurate.
Certain of the information presented on this page appears to be grossly inaccurate. In particular the assertion that "Kunreisiki has been not only the Japanese domestic standard, but the world standard today" is not the case at all. The Japanese domestic standard and the world standard are both Hepburn. There are several other inconsistencies, and I also strongly suspect that user: 218.228.102.190 is in fact a sock puppet of user: Whisper to me, who is well known both for his bias towards kunreishiki and his near total lack of knowledge of the Japanese language and systems of romanization. Exploding Boy 15:51, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * Hepburn is the most common romanization system in use today, but NOT A STANDARD anywhere. You can mention that Hepburn is the de facto standard, but,

The Japanese domestic standard and the world standard are both Hepburn.

 * is clearly untrue. -Suika 05-29-2004 (user 218.228.102.190)

This is the stronger argument. I rarely work in Roman but the Kunreishiki system is widely used in academia, in ward office information circulars and even occasionally on street signs in Kyoto, as 3 examples. Hepburn is not an accepted standard in many walks of life in Japan, especially at a daily level. I would even argue it is a default informal compromise that enjoys no official status. Kurogane666 - 2014-06-04

I have edited the article with the facts (or an approximation thereof) and removed your disclaimer. -- Sekicho 16:55, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * To whoever rearranged my post and removed portions of it, please don't do that. A "standard," according to MerriamWebster, is "something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example."  By that criterion Hepburn is certainly the standard romanization system both within Japan (Hepburn is seen everwhere while other romanizations are never seen) and without (Hepburn is the only romanization system taught outside Japan). To Sekicho, there are still factual problems with the article.  I am replacing the factual accuracy message.  Exploding Boy 00:56, May 29, 2004 (UTC)

 * If there are factual problems, why don't you correct them? Sekicho 00:57, May 29, 2004 (UTC)

 * All right, then let the sentence more precise, "Kunreisiki is the legally valid standard around the globe, and Hepburn is the de facto standard in English-speaking communities". You have to agree on this.
 * I removed your disclaimer because your insistence doesn't make sense. Suika 05-30-2004

Around the globe? No, I don't "have to" agree to it. I'll decide when to remove my factual accuracy dispute, not you. Exploding Boy 00:21, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * You seem to be unreasonable.
 * Kunreisiki is the legally valid domestic and international standard. It is REQUIRED to use such as JIS or ISO related specifications, or files for the Japanese Library of Congress and so on. If you use Hepburn in a strict document, that will be simply returned.
 * Hepburn has been in general use because people don't know the difference of the systems, and don't care the accuracy. Japanese writing system is, after all, Kanzi-kana, not Rômazi.
 * Linguists around the grove use Nipponsiki or Kunreisiki. Japanese students around the grove use Nipponsiki/Kunreisiki-based system known as JSL. If you insist that Kunreisiki is not the standard, you'd better cite authorities. Suika 05-30-2004

 * I've just rewritten the first "usage" paragraph and tried to take out most of the fluff, any comments?

 * Exploding Boy, could you enumerate your exact disputes with the article as is? I just read it with a fine-toothed comb and it seems pretty much fine to me.

 * Suika, what does except in certain countries where its morphology closely matches local spelling and pronunciation mean? Which countries use Kunreisiki? Jpatokal 04:20, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

My first problem is that user 218.228.102.190, who has been signing as Suika, is, I strongly suspect, a sockpuppet of user Whisper to me;  218.228.102.190's only edits have been to this page, starting just after I corrected some of Whisper to me's usual nonsense. If they're not the same person, they have remarkably similar misapprehensions about romanization. Kunreishiki is neither the Japanese domestic nor the international standard. Foreign students of Japanese learn Hepburn or modified Hepburn. Japanese students learn Hepburn.

Be all that as it may, the changes to the article have removed most of the problem claims, but the following is still problematic:

"For instance, the polite form of hanas-u ("to speak") becomes hanash-i-    masu in Hepburn and hanas-i-masu in Kunreisiki: the s -> sh shift is      foreign to Japanese morphology, although it is reflected in      pronunciation."

Re-written as follows it would be ok, but would not be a very good example for this article:

The polite form of the verb hana-su (to speak) becomes hana-shi-masu in Hepburn and hana-si-masu in kunreishiki.

The problem is that the s-sh shift is not foreign to Japanese morphology, as shown in the sa-gyou (sa-line) of the kana chart

さ (pronounced as "sa")　し ("shi")　す ("su")　せ　("se")　そ ("so")

This is also reflected in the ta-gyou (ta, chi, tsu, te, to).

Exploding Boy 05:54, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * We're getting our fancy linguistic terms mixed up here... In Japanese, si/shi, ti/chi, and tu/tsu are single phonemes, and it's not possible to distinguish between them in hiragana.  Phonologically, nothing happens when "hanasu" is conjugated into "hanashi" -- but phonetically, an English speaker hears a difference.  This difference is reflected in Hepburn, but not Kunrei. Jpatokal 07:55, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Well any speaker would hear a difference, but at any rate, the major problems seem to have been dealt with and this is not a big enough problem to sustain the factual accuracy message. Exploding Boy 08:35, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

My first problem is that...I strongly suspect, a sockpuppet of user Whisper to me; ...they have remarkably similar misapprehensions about romanization.

 * I do not know WhisperToMe at all, and so do your personal displeasure. I had rewritten the Rômazi article in Wikipedia (ja) first, then rewrote the Nipponsiki and the Kunreisiki articles in Wikipedia (en). Anyway, whoever edited the article after you should not be the matter.

What does except in certain countries where its morphology closely matches local spelling and pronunciation mean? Which countries use Kunreisiki?

 * That is Sekicho's writing, and you've removed it anyway. Sekicho added many words and sentences in order to improve my bare writing. It was a good job. But I will substitute the last example for a simple conjugation table maybe next weekend. Suika 05-31-2004

 * I only know that a few European languages, such as Polish, use kunrei spellings instead of Hepburn spellings. That was the basis of said statement. -- Sekicho 22:26, May 31, 2004 (UTC)

 * As the "Monbusho" thing was lost in the rewrite Suika did, I've decided to add it back. WhisperToMe 03:31, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * One more thing; should this article be written from a "Hepburn stance" as Hepburn is the standard on Wikipedia? (As in mention the romanization system as "Kunrei-shiki" throughout the article as opposed to "Kunrei-siki") WhisperToMe 03:34, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I've reverted your last edit. As I've told you before, kunreishiki is not the official romanization system used in Japanese public schools (whatever that means anyway). Hepburn is taught in all Japanese schools. Exploding Boy 03:37, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

So, how can we explain how it got the "Monbusho" name? One thing is that you and I must think of a way to explain "Monbusho" because Kunrei-shiki is known under that name.

In this edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Kunrei-shiki&diff=3778531&oldid=3775404), this was removed and rewritten:
 * Although Kunreisiki is the standard romanization system for Japanese public schools, the government generally uses Hepburn for romanizing Japanese names and terms in English contexts, as well as some less language-specific contexts such as passports and road signs. This is because most romanized Japanese is directed at foreigners, most of whom are more comfortable with English morphology than Japanese morphology.

The mention of the "schools" became lost. WhisperToMe 03:38, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * The explanation is wrong. Kunreishiki is not the standard romanization system in public schools; Hepburn is.  Why do we have to keep rehashing the same old thing over and over and over and over again?  We've discussed this at length already.  ALL, not "most" romanized Japanese is directed at foreigners.  Japanese people have no need to represent their language in Roman characters; they have three systems of their own already.  Exploding Boy 03:51, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * You didn't answer my question. If you are saying that Kunrei is NOT used in schools (Remember that both romanization systems can be used in tandem), how come that Kunrei-shiki became known as the "Monbusho system" in the first place? Are you saying it is not used anymore? There are instances when Japanese must be romanized yet it doesn't have to pertain to foreigners (e.g. e-mail addresses, which cannot be put in kanji) WhisperToMe 03:56, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I have just uploaded a photo I just took of the romanization page of the New Horizon English Course text book for 1st year (beginning English) students in Japan. The book was published 2 years ago. The photograph is of page 113, and shows the romaji (ローマ字) study page, with a chart. At the top of the page, next to the word ローマ字, is written Hebonshiki (ヘボン式), the Japanese name for the Hepburn system. Exploding Boy 03:58, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * Image removed as copyright violation. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 15:08, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

1. This confirms that Hepburn is used when teaching English to students in Japan.

I believe (I do not know for sure) that Kunrei is seen in textbooks relating to the Japanese language. Again, I don't know exactly or for sure how it is used. One thing for certain is that Kunrei was made the official system of the school system (hence the Monbusho name), but as Hepburn has shown, the "official" system doesn't have to be, and is not in many cases, the de facto standard. (Which is why even though Kunrei is the "official" system of the Japanese government, that everything is in Hepburn!) WhisperToMe 04:09, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * No modern Japanese language text for foreigners uses kunreishiki. They all use Hepburn.  Texts used by Japanese students contain no romaji.  None of the Japanese programs of which I'm aware (and I have a degree in Japanese) teaches any system other than Hepburn.  Kunreishiki used to be taught to Japanese elementary school students, but this practice appears to be largely dying out since all Japanese students learn Hepburn starting in year one of junior high school.  Non-Hepburn romanizations are marked wrong.  To the best of my knowledge there is no legally recognized "official" romanization system within Japan.  I could upload photos of any number of street signs, station and airport signs, building names and on and on and on, all of which use Hepburn, but it would be a waste of my time and the Wikipedia's bandwidth.  As I've stated before, I have never seen any "official" romanization (street signs, place names, official documents) in Japan that was not Hepburn or modified Hepburn. Exploding Boy 04:19, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * No modern Japanese language text for foreigners uses kunreishiki. They all use Hepburn.  Incorrect.  While it does not use kunrei-siki, all of Eleanor Jorden's books use her JSL romanization scheme, which includes books published 1987 and many in the 90s and 2000s.  This is based on the same Yale system used when teaching members of the US military.

So would this explanation work: "Kunrei-shiki is known as the Monbusho system as it was made the official romanization system of the Japanese school system. Despite this, the practice of actually using Kunrei in school is dying out. Hepburn is used when teaching the English language in Japan." ? WhisperToMe 04:22, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Still problematic. Hepburn is not "used when teaching English," though Japanese words and names used in English texts and classes are romanized using Hepburn. Many students don't learn kunrei-shiki at all any more, because they're not expected to even know the English alphabet until they reach the first year of junior high, as English is not an official part of the elementary school curriculum.

This would work: "Kunrei-shiki is also known as the Monbusho system because it used to be, and still occasionally is, taught to elementary school students.  However, all students now learn the Hepburn system as part of the national curriculum, and kunrei-shiki is now rarely used in schools.

Exploding Boy 04:33, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

I added your phrase, plus a snippet on what "Monbusho" is. WhisperToMe 04:41, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Please, have a look at ja:&. It could help resolve the dispute. A-giau 12:18, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Good Job, Exploding Boy! I agree with you completely. --Rocky7 13:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Extended katakana
Does anyone here know how the extended katakana are romanized in Kunrei-shiki? The table is missing the extended katakana. WhisperToMe 05:02, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Only the kana listed here are officially defined. Representations of the wackier extended katakana (フィ, ティ, ヴァ, スィ etc) are not standardized, although I've seen eg. フィ rendered "hwi" and ティ as "t'i". Jpatokal 16:13, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See Nippon-no-Rômazi-Sya (NRS). http://www.geocities.jp/masa_nip/Bunko/Kakikata/tatuoka.html This is a well-established paper. NRS is a member of the Japanese Language Council. (Suika)

 * The page above romanizes eg. ティ as "ti" and ウォ as "wo", meaning that there is no one-to-one correspondance to the kana. This is, of course, one way of doing it but you cannot call this "standard". Jpatokal 02:28, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think that is the first working paper said "the same phoneme (for instance, チ and ティ) should not be distinguished". When one-to-one correspondence is necessary, add an apostrophe between a consonant and a vowel.

 * you cannot call this "standard".

Hepburn extension shown in Wikipedia (En) is also not "standard". No official documentation around there. (Suika)

 * The Hepburn page says the extensions are not standard. But if you want to add a table of extended Kunrei as suggested by Rômazi-Sya, then please go ahead. Jpatokal 03:22, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Minnan
After seeing that the Min-nan Wikipedia uses Kunrei-shiki naming for Shintaro Ishihara, I wonder if Min-nan is a language where it is standard form to use Kunrei-shiki. WhisperToMe 23:38, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * No. Minnan is not officially a language (it's a "dialect" in Commiespeak), and they can't even standardize their own name (cf. Minnan, Southern Min, Ban-lam-gu, Hokkien, Fujianese, Teochew, Taiwanese, ...), much less renderings of Japanese. Jpatokal 02:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * According to the opening paragraph, these different names are used by different people. For instance, Bân-lâm-gú is the "native" name but other people call it "Min Nan". And the name is translated to "Southern Min" or "Southern Fujian". And "Hokkien" (meaning Fujianese) and "Teochew" are other names used, especially in Southeast Asia. But according to that article, the natives call it one name amongst each other. And "Taiwanese" appears to be a subdialect of that language. The language also has a different name in the Philippines. I'll have to look at more Min Nan links later.. I notified User:A-giau about the debate, as he knows the language. WhisperToMe 03:24, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi, this is an off-topic response to Jpatokal's off-topic comment: the various names reflect the internal diversity (some dialects can be hard to understand between each other) and geographical spread (all over Southeast Asia, in the ethnic enclaves) of the Southern Min group and the lack of official standardization -- which is not to say Min Nan doesn't have prestigious dialects (e.g. Xiamen dialect; Tainan dialect). "Taiwanese" does not necessarily refer to a specific dialect; it may refer to the most dominant dialect on the island or it may serve as a convenient label for the set of dialects spoken there (most notable for the Japanese loanwords).
 * Now regarding Japanese rômazi: the Southern Min Wikipedia does try to stick to the Kunrei-shiki, because (1) it's an ISO 3602 recommendation and (2) its phonology is largely compatible with the Latin script we use for Southern Min (i.e. one can know nothing about Kunrei-shiki and still get a fairly good pronunciation just by happening to know the Min Nan script).
 * A-giau 06:22, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * >> not officially a language -- Language, here, is a relatively scientific term meaning system of speech. Language and dialect are differentiated, often, by politics rather than linguistics (a language is a dialect with an army, it is said), thus WhisperToMe was not wrong in using the word. Perhaps people could be more cognizant of this. ~ Dpr 19:33, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Redoing the kana chart
I tried to import the design in the Hepburn article to the Kunrei article and to add the non-standard Extended Kunrei characters in. As there are some things I don't know, I'm putting this on the talk page so this can be corrected.

I'm not sure how "va, ve, vi" are handled, nor am I sure how "we" and "wi" are handled.

Particles

 * When he へ is used as a particle it is written e, not he (as in Nippon-shiki).
 * When ha は is used as a particle it is written wa, not ha.
 * When wo を is used as a particle it is written o, not wo.

Long vowels

 * Long vowels are indicated by a circumflex, for example long o is written ô.

Other

 * Syllabic n ん is written as n before consonants but as n' before vowels and y.
 * Geminate consonants are marked by doubling the consonant following the っ.
 * The first letter in a sentence, and all proper nouns, are capitalized.
 * ISO 3602 has the strict form, see Nihon-shiki.

For hiragana
The characters in red are obsolete in modern Japanese.

For standard katakana
The characters in red are obsolete in modern Japanese.

For extended katakana
These are used mainly to represent the sounds in words in other languages. Most of these are not formally standardized and some are very rarely used.

(Also, フョ>hwyo)

WhisperToMe 00:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have been researching the various types of kana and romaji lately in an effort to create a spreadsheet as a handy reference offline. One of the gaps I have is Nihon-shiki and Kunrei transliterations of the extended katakana.

So today I decided to check on whether or not Nihon-shiki or Kunrei did convert those kana or ignored them. I just left the talk page of the article on Nihon-shiki where someone stated that extended katakana are undefined in Nihon-shiki. I was fine with that, but requested that mention of that fact be made somewhere in the article.

Then I came here and, while extended katakana are still undefined in Kunrei as well, WhisperToMe was granted permission to make a table anyway.

I will be looking forward to its completion, however, I have found two other tables on Wikipedia and neither are alike even given the differences in the articles for which they were created. In the interests of people who do research, I would like to make some suggestions for this table.

1. Since Kunrei has fairly consistent rules and established precedent for converting kana to roman type, this should not be a problem. All are treated the same for the w series, ウ + yoon = w*, so that ウァ = wa, ウィ = wi, ウゥ = wu, etc. The v series would be handled the same except that you would use, ヴ instead of ウ and ヴ alone is vu. None of the permitted exceptions of Kunrei apply to these kana. I hope this solves your question here.

2. Before you add another table, please fix the other tables so they both show all the same katakana. Adding the IPA transcriptions to each table would be a nice touch as well. Only the one in Transcription into Japanese has this.

3. Unless the obsolete kana are now being used as extended katakana they should not be used on a table for modern / extended katakana. Maybe put these on a separate table of obsolete kana?

4. In the katakana article reference to the extended set is given as a link to the Transcription into Japanese article. While the Hepburn article has its own table. You could save time and just make one table for the extended katakana set and enter links from the various other articles to that. Either put the table in the katakana article or the Transcription into Japanese article (showing conversion to the romaji systems that support extended katakana). Or use one template and put a table in each article, making adjustments as needed. Considering that the extended katakana for some mora have hiragana equivalents (for example, the kw and gw series) it may be best to put the extended kana set in the Transcription into Japanese article.

5. I just noticed this a little while ago. How can くゎ kwa and ぐゎ gwa be permitted exceptions? They are not on the main table, probably because in these forms they are obsolete and have been replaced with modern equivalents that do not affect their pronunciation for use with dialects and foreign words. See suggestion 3 in regards to obsolete kana. So there is the main table, extended set, obsolete kana and the permitted exceptions table for Kunrei-shiki. Four tables in all, three of which could be templated/linked.

Rod Lockwood (talk) 05:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

POV
This passage is problematic: "Kunrei-shiki is sometimes known as the Monbushō system in English, because it was until relatively recently taught in the Monbushō-approved elementary school curriculum." (my italics). So far I have seen no proof that Monbusho actually abandoned kunrei. Please present actual fact, such as official policy documents issued by the ministry. -Himasaram 16:34, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This is dispute regarding fact, not point of view. Removing POV template.   — Gwalla | Talk 22:03, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This has been discussed at great length already. Exploding Boy 22:20, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * I added a Disputed template instead. And yes, it has been discussed before, but needs to be discussed further. Until there are proof of the opposite, the article should say that learning kunrei-shiki is part of the Monbusho curriculum. -Himasaram 09:47, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It isn't. Where are you getting the idea it still is? Did you actually read the long discussion on the subject? Why must we keep repeating ourselves? Exploding Boy 20:11, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Of course I read it. And the only proof you've published so far, is a removed photo of a page of a textbook. You haven't even proved that that book actually is used in shools following the Monbusho curriculum. The rest are just your opinions, Exploding Boy. -Himasaram 21:42, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As this discussion hasn't advanced for a month and Himasaram appears to be in a minority of one, I'll remove the dispute tag. Jpatokal 6 July 2005 08:04 (UTC)

Oh My Goodness! I guarantee what Exploding Boy has editted in Kunrei-shiki and insisted here are all based on the more truly truths. Though you may not believe, I'm not his sockpuppet. I am a Japanese-native speaker and have learned Japanese romanization systems as well as him, therefore, it seems to me that he is one of pure Japanese Wikipedians as well as me. --Rocky7 14:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Monbusho standard
I read the above discussion with some amazement. The Kunrei shiki system is the one used in Japanese elementary schools. This could be checked rather easily by anyone who lives in Japan. User:Exploding Boy strikes again. --DannyWilde 15:08, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Having taught at several elementary schools in Japan I can state with certainty that it is not. Hepburn is the system taught.  And please keep your personal statements to yourself; you're not the only one who knows something about Japan.  We spent a long time discussing this; you cannot come along and single-handedly revert what consensus has created.  Exploding Boy 15:11, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for adding that detail, but I'm still not convinced. I've just spent a few minutes leafing through a collection of elementary school textbooks, without finding anything yet. As far as I know kunrei shiki is taught in elementary schools in Japan -- that was certainly what I noticed at my son's school, but I can't find it in his textbooks yet. He actually hasn't done it at school, but everything I've seen indicates Kunrei. There was a romaji chart in one of his first year books in kunrei, and all the kumon books use it. Anyway, the boy's sleeping now so I can't search too hard. But since you're so adamant, I'll find evidence one way or the other. Please don't make any destructive revert edits. --DannyWilde 15:31, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Destructive revert edits? (Removed. Please see your talk page). Exploding Boy 15:37, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * My meaning here is that, since I edited lots of minor points in the article, such as paragraphing and categories, if you want to restore the original version of the text, I'd be glad if you didn't do it by a simple revert which would also destroy all the other edits I'd made. In fact that is what you did, which is a step in the right direction. --DannyWilde 15:53, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

I believe Kunrei system is taught in Japanese elementary schools too. I learned Kunrei system from school. Most educated Japanese people believe that Kunrei is more "formal". Even some cultural products continue to use Kunrei, for example the Koreeda film "Maborosi" (as opposed to Maboroshi). --kokoko

 * User:Exploding Boy said there was a change recently. I thought that it was the Kunrei system at elementary schools too, but he claims he checked it with some people. I haven't checked it yet, I would like to get some evidence either way. --DannyWilde 22:46, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

System taught in Japanese elementary schools
I have verified that the Kunrei system is the system taught in Japanese elementary schools. This is according to a Kumon publication published in 2004. For those who don't know, Kumon is a major publisher of educational materials for Japanese children, and is extremely unlikely to be misinformed on this matter. See the photos on the right. For those who can't read the Japanese caption, please let me know and I'll translate it. I hope this discussion will be ended now with good grace. Thanks to all contributors to the article and the discussion. --DannyWilde 06:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I commend your efforts, but I'm afraid you have verified that kunrei is a system taught to Japanese schoolchildren, while the dispute is whether kunrei is the Monbusho-approved system. The only ways to get to a final resolution on this are to a) dig up the official Monbusho curricula stating that kunrei is the One True Romaji (proof by fiat), or b) find a Monbusho-approved schoolbook that uses Hepburn (disproof by counterexample).  Kumon is a juku, meaning it exists outside the formal school system (albeit aimed at helping students succeed in it), and I don't think its materials have the Monbusho seal of approval.  Jpatokal 09:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Did you read the caption on the Kumon poster? The poster, published in 2004, clearly states that the Kunrei system is taught in elementary schools. Whether that poster is approved by Monbusho has nothing to do with the issue. Kumon is hardly likely to make a mistake about this. By the way, one of the two photos is a Kumon one, the other one is published by another company. --DannyWilde 02:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, it says  no naka wa shougakkou de tsukau(?) kakikata desu, or as you say, the "Kunrei system is taught in elementary schools". What is being disputed, and what is still disputed, is whether Kunrei is the only system taught in schools. Jpatokal 08:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I see the photo is more blurred than I'd imagined. It says "narau" 習う. My photographic skills are in need of improvement I'm afraid. --DannyWilde 13:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree with Jpatokal. Even if kunrei is being taught in some schools, Hepburn is being taught in others. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Perhaps one or the other is being taught as an adjunct? (The latter seems unlikely). We still need more information. Exploding Boy 17:25, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Practically, Hepburn-shiki Romanization has been taught and Kunrei-shiki Romanization has been ignored, though Kunrei-shiki has been taught first and Hepburn-shiki second. --Rocky7 13:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Analyze the ambiguity of Japanese government correctly.
I am very astonished with the current context of Kunrei-shiki Rōmaji and this discussion page, because, in fact, Japanese people have been taught both Kunrei-shiki and Hepburn-shiki, and almost all of Japanese people have adopted Hepburn-shiki mainly, because they themselves(including the bureaucrats of Japanese government) have to feel that some regulations of the current Kunrei-shiki are apparently wrong. The current Kunrei-shiki(since 1954) seems to reflect the arrogant way of thinking of both ultra-right wingers and ultar-left wingers who aren't going to communicate with the Westerners friendly. As a result of such a crazily dynamic politics, the current Kunrei-shiki was born in 1954. 1954 is one of such a confused period for the Japanese government. And such a reckless ultar-right wingers are still alive and well, extending its power, unfortunately. Moreover, many extra-regulations in the current Kunrei-shiki(1954) are evidently worse than ones of the past Kunrei-shiki(1937). This means that the pre-war government of Japan is so much wiser than all of the post-war one. After noticing it, I have very mixed feelings. Anyway, the true facts about Japanese Romanization are too complicated and too unknown to discuss here. Therefore, I'd like to offer the necessary facts of Japanese ordinary people and Japanese government directly into the article with the references in the first place. Any Japanese Wikipedian who read this talk page, would have to feel it is no use to discuss here, because some of you have been superficially deceived by the tricky compromise made by the Japanese government, though any Japanese can't be cheated by such a piutiful excuse. If you want to know and talk about the truths of Japanese Romanization systems, you should live in Japan at least for a few years and realize the complicated truths. So, forgive me for omitting some procedures. Thank you. -- Rocky7 13:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've had to revert your edits to the article, because they're not WP:NPOV and in rather poor English to boot (sorry). Please discuss changes here first. Jpatokal 12:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know what Jpatokal means. I think, one can't object to anything Rocky7 said here. And obviously Jpatokal has never discussed anything meaningful and been against Wikipedia's policies of free-editting and WP:NPOV. You should not stick to your own opinion, ignoring the facts about Japanese words. You should discuss here first before reverting. SeraphGood 10:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The edit you are proposing is the following (bolding mine):

 * Today, the main users of Kunrei-shiki are linguists studying Japanese. Native speakers of Japanese (especially within Japan) and pro-Japanese foreigners have adopted Hepburn-shiki since nineteenth century, because it reflects the most accurate pronunciations of Japanese words. The advantage of Kunrei-shiki is only that it is better able to illustrate Japanese grammar.

My objections are as follows:
 * "Main users of Kunrei-shiki" -- this is a bold claim and requires a source. There's plenty of counterevidence, just try googling for eg "kaisya" and see how many linguists you can find in the results.
 * "Accurate pronunciation" is POV. Hepburn is more accurate if you're an English speaker and expect your romaji to follow English rules; most Japanese are more comfortable with Kunrei.
 * The current article states that Kunrei's main advantage is illustrating grammar. By claiming that it's the only one, you're ignoring its higher regularity and conformance to kana patterns. Jpatokal 10:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Project Assessment
Though shorter than the Hepburn article, this one does appear to include all the necessary information about the system itself (e.g. phoneme charts); it includes detailed, well-written, and unbiased descriptions of the system's origin, its official status, the difficulties it presents to native English speakers, and the fact that Hepburn is thus the de facto standard in many parts of the world. Thus, B class is warranted IMHO. LordAmeth 14:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Dodgy claim about "choosing" systems
I removed this sentence from the end of the lead: "Today, Japanese commonly choose between Kunrei-shiki and Hepburn depending on the given situation."

This is plainly not true, in any literal sense. Of course, you will find bits of Hepburn and bits of Kunrei-shiki written here and there, and you will also find (a preponderance of) "Waapuro input" pseudo-romanisation (jyo, ssyi, cchi, etc etc) which is not part of any system. My impression is that around 0.001% of the population actually knows sufficiently what "Hepburn" and "Kunreishiki" are to be able to make such a "choice". This could be replaced by a sentence about how chaotic romanisation actually is, but I'm not sure how to make that a brief comment in the lead. Imaginatorium (talk) 08:41, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

English Pronunciation of "Tokyo"
The English pronunciation of "Tokyo" as isn't "wrong", it's just different from the Japanese pronunciation of. While I understand that this does probably come from a misreading of Hepburn romaji or some other Romanization of Japanese, is now a seperate word from its Japanese language etymon  and the accepted English-language exonym for Tokyo. The article should give a better example. Categorizing the English word "Tokyo" as a mispronunciation of Japanese is only historically true. - preceding undated comment added on 18:39, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Japan is switching its official romanization from Kunrei to Hepburn?
Will this stick?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/03/02/japan/society/japan-romanization-rules-revise/

Alphapeta (talk) 13:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Are you asking if this source is acceptable for use in this article? Then, yes. If this is a general question about kunreishiki, please see WP:NOTFORUM. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:00, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Possibly dubious claim in the article?
It must be noted, however, that words written with Hepburn system are often pronounced incorrectly as well; for example, while English has the [i] sound of Japanese, in English it is rarely written as 'i', which creates the impression that 'i' is supposed to represent [ɪ] — thus [çiɾa̠ɡa̠na̠] became [hɪɹəɡænə] in English instead of [hiɹəɡænə].

Is there a source for the relevance of this? As far as I understand it, vowel length is phonemic in Japanese but the difference between [i] and [ɪ] is not. So Japanese people may prefer the pronunciation with [ɪ] over the pronunciation with [i] since most dialects of English pronounce /i/ as a long vowel ('hiiragana'). I don't know whether they actually do prefer this, but it seems to me that this statement should be clearly sourced, or else removed if a source isn't available. Stockhausenfan (talk) 01:25, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

 * I think it'd be just fine to remove it. (Love your editor handle, by the way!) —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 01:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Great, I will remove this from the article then unless someone else objects. (And thanks, yes great composer indeed!) Stockhausenfan (talk) 01:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kunrei-shiki romanization


text:
Hreðavatn

Hreðavatn is a lake in the west of Iceland. It is situated near Route 1 (the Ring Road) between Borgarnes and the pass of Holtavörtuheiði. Nearby is the university faculty of Bifröst and the Grábrók craters as well as the mountain Baula.

The surface of the lake is 1.14 km2, it lies 56 m above sea level, its length is about 5 km and its greatest depth 20 m. It is embedded in a scenic landscape of heath and small forest plantations.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Hreðavatn


text:
2005 in sports

2005 in sports describes the year's events in world sport.

Alpine skiing

 * Alpine Skiing World Cup
 * Men's overall season champion: Bode Miller (US)
 * Women's overall season champion: Anja Pärson (Sweden)

American football

 * Super Bowl XXXIX – the New England Patriots (AFC) won 24–21 over the Philadelphia Eagles (NFC)
 * Location: Alltel Stadium
 * Attendance: 78,125
 * MVP: Deion Branch, WR (New England)
 * Orange Bowl (2004 season):
 * The Southern California Trojans won 55–19 over the Oklahoma Sooners to win the BCS National Championship

Association football

 * May 18 – UEFA Cup final – CSKA Moscow became the first Russian club to win a major European club competition, defeating Sporting Lisbon 3–1 at Sporting's home field in Lisbon.
 * May 25 – UEFA Champions League final – Liverpool defeated A.C. Milan 3–2 on penalties after a 3–3 draw in Istanbul to win Europe's top prize for the 5th time.
 * August 31 – Boca Juniors (Argentina) won the Recopa Sudamericana 2005 4–3 on aggregate over Once Caldas (Colombia). (First leg in Buenos Aires 3–1, second leg in Manizales 1–2)
 * December 11 – Opening game of the first FIFA World Club Championship, a six team tournament replacing the former Intercontinental Cup. In the final one week later Brazilian team São Paulo won the competition narrowly beating UEFA Champions Liverpool 1–0.
 * December 18 – Boca Juniors defeated UNAM Pumas on penalties after the second leg game for the Copa Sudamericana 2005.
 * December 19 – Ronaldinho (Brazil, for male footballer) and Birgit Prinz (Germany, for female footballer) were elected FIFA World Player of the Year.

Australian rules football

 * Australian Football League
 * The Sydney Swans win the 109th AFL Premiership, defeating West Coast Eagles 8.10 (58) to 7.12 (54), the club's first premiership in 72 years
 * Brownlow Medal awarded to Ben Cousins, captain of the West Coast Eagles
 * Leigh Matthews Trophy also awarded to Cousins
 * Coleman Medal awarded to Fraser Gehrig of St Kilda
 * See also Australian Football League season 2005
 * 2005 Australian Football International Cup won by New Zealand

Athletics

 * June 14 – Men's 100 metres – Asafa Powell of Jamaica sets a new world record of 9.77 at the Athens Olympic Stadium.
 * June 19 – European Cup
 * Men's overall standings – Germany
 * Women's overall standings – Russia
 * August – World Championships held in Helsinki
 * IAAF Golden League – Russian triple jumper Tatyana Lebedeva is the sole winner of the US$1 million jackpot divided among all athletes who win their event at each of six designated meets.
 * December 13 – The Court of Arbitration for Sport bans American Tim Montgomery for two years in a case stemming from his involvement with the controversial "sports nutrition" center BALCO. Although Montgomery never tested positive for drugs, CAS found the circumstantial evidence against him overwhelming. It also struck all his results since 2001 from the records, including a then world-record time of 9.78.

Baseball

 * October 22 – 2005 Japan Series – The Chiba Lotte Marines sweep the Hanshin Tigers 4 games to 0.
 * October 26 – 2005 MLB World Series – The Chicago White Sox sweep the Houston Astros 4 games to 0 to win the World Series for the first time since 1917.

Basketball

 * NBA Finals – San Antonio Spurs win their third NBA title in the past seven years, defeating the Detroit Pistons in the first seven-game NBA Finals in eleven years.
 * WNBA Finals - Sacramento Monarchs defeat Connecticut Sun to win their only title.
 * Men's Division I – North Carolina defeats Illinois, 75–70, in the Championship Game. It is Tar Heels coach Roy Williams's first national title.
 * Women's Division I – Baylor defeats Michigan State, 84–62, in the final. It is the first Women's National Title game in several years to not involve either Tennessee or UConn. Baylor coach Kim Mulkey-Robertson becomes the first woman to win NCAA Division I basketball titles as a player and coach.
 * Euroleague – Maccabi Tel Aviv successfully defends the Euroleague title, defeating TAU Cerámica of Spain, 90–78, in the final.
 * Chinese Basketball Association finals – defending champions Guangdong Southern Tigers defeat the Jiangsu Dragons 3 games to 2 in the best-of-five Chinese Basketball Association finals.
 * National Basketball League (Australia) – Sydney Kings defeated the Wollongong Hawks, 3–0, in a best-of-five finals series.
 * Bj League, a professional basketball league in Japan, predecessor for B League of Japan, a first game held on November 5.

Bowling

 * February 20 – Chris Barnes wins the 62nd US Open
 * April 3 – Patrick Allen wins the PBA Denny's World Championship
 * April 10 – Steve Jaros wins the PBA Dexter Tournament of Champions
 * Patrick Allen is named the Player of the Year for 2004–2005
 * November 20 – Mike Scroggins wins the USBC Masters

Boxing

 * May 7 – Diego Corrales defeats José Luis Castillo by 10th-round knockout, for the WBO-WBC lightweight title unification. Both men were exchanging a brutal amount of punishment throughout the fight, before a dramatic tenth round in which Corrales scored a TKO after getting knocked down twice.  The fight was highly regarded as one of the greatest of all-time and won Ring Magazine fight of the year.
 * July 16 – Jermain Taylor, 2000 US Olympic Boxing bronze medalist, defeats Bernard Hopkins for the undisputed Middleweight Title ending Hopkins' 10 year title reign. Hopkins made 20 successful title defenses before losing to Taylor, the current record in the middleweight division, Carlos Monzón is second with 14 successful defenses.
 * 13 to November 20 – World Amateur Boxing Championships held in Mianyang, People's Republic of China

Canadian football

 * November 27 – the Edmonton Eskimos win the 93rd Grey Cup game, defeating the Montreal Alouettes 38–35 at BC Place Stadium in Vancouver.

Cricket

 * January 10 – ICC World XI (344 for 8) beat the ACC Asian XI (232) by 112 runs to win the first of two scheduled one-day internationals for the World Cricket Tsunami Appeal; the second was never played. It is the first time an ODI has been played that has not been between two cricketing nations.
 * January 10 – Bangladesh beat Zimbabwe by 226 runs to record their first ever Test match victory.
 * July 2 – England and Australia tie the deciding NatWest Series trophy match at Lord's Cricket Ground.
 * August 11 – Shane Warne becomes the first bowler to take 600 Test wickets.
 * September 12 – England win The Ashes.

Cycling
Road bicycle racing Cyclo-cross
 * Giro d'Italia – Maglia rosa (Overall winner): Paolo Savoldelli (Italy, Discovery Channel Team)
 * Tour de France won by Lance Armstrong, his record-setting seventh consecutive title.
 * UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships
 * Men's Competition – Sven Nys
 * Women's Competition – Hanka Kupfernagel

Field hockey

 * Men's Champions Trophy: Australia
 * Men's Champions Challenge: Argentina
 * Women's Champions Trophy: Netherlands
 * Women's Champions Challenge: New Zealand

Figure skating

 * World Figure Skating Championships
 * Men's champion: Stéphane Lambiel, Switzerland
 * Ladies' champion: Irina Slutskaya, Russia
 * Pair skating champions: Tatiana Totmianina and Maxim Marinin, Russia
 * Ice dancing champions: Tatiana Navka and Roman Kostomarov, Russia

Floorball

 * Women's World Floorball Championships
 * Champion: Switzerland
 * Men's under-19 World Floorball Championships
 * Champion: Sweden
 * European Cup
 * Men's champion: SV Wiler-Ersigen
 * Women's champion: RA Rychenberg

Gaelic Athletic Association

 * April 16 – The annual congress of the Gaelic Athletic Association votes to open up Croke Park and allow soccer and rugby to be played there under certain circumstances. It is expected that this will pave the way for the Republic of Ireland national football team and the Irish national rugby union team to use Croke Park during the redevelopment of their home ground, Lansdowne Road.
 * Camogie
 * All-Ireland Camogie Champion: Cork
 * National Camogie League: Galway
 * Gaelic football
 * All-Ireland Senior Football Championship – Tyrone 1–16 died Kerry 2–10
 * National Football League – Armagh 1–21 died Wexford 1–14
 * Tommy Murphy Cup – Tipperary 3–10 died Wexford 0–15
 * Ladies' Gaelic football
 * All-Ireland Senior Football Champion: Cork
 * National Football League: Cork
 * Hurling
 * All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship – Cork 1–21 died Galway 1–16
 * Liam MacCarthy Cup – Cork
 * Christy Ring Cup – Westmeath 1–23 died Down 2–18
 * Nicky Rackard Cup – London 5–8 died Louth 1–5
 * National Hurling League – Kilkenny beat Clare

Gliding

 * World Gliding Championships (Women's), Klix, Germany
 * 15-metre Class Winner: Mette Pedersen, Denmark; Glider: Alexander Schleicher ASW 27B
 * Standard Class Winner: Jana Veprekova, Czech Republic; Glider: Rolladen-Schneider LS8-b
 * Club Class Winner: Hana Vokrinkova, Czech Republic; Glider: Schempp-Hirth Standard Cirrus
 * World Gliding Championships (Junior), Husbands Bosworth, United Kingdom
 * Standard Class Winner: Mark Parker, Great Britain; Glider: Rolladen-Schneider LS8
 * Club Class Winner: Christoph Nacke, Germany; Glider: Rolladen-Schneider LS1

Golf
Men's professional Men's amateur Women's professional
 * Major Championships
 * Masters Tournament – Tiger Woods defeated fellow American Chris DiMarco at the first playoff hole to claim his 4th Masters title and his 9th major.
 * U.S. Open – Michael Campbell
 * British Open – Tiger Woods
 * PGA Championship – Phil Mickelson
 * PGA Tour money leader – Tiger Woods won $10,628,024
 * British Amateur – Brian McElhinney
 * U.S. Amateur – Edoardo Molinari
 * European Amateur – Marius Thorp
 * Kraft Nabisco Championship – Annika Sörenstam won her eighth major
 * LPGA Championship – Annika Sörenstam
 * U.S. Women's Open – Birdie Kim earned what became her only LPGA Tour win.
 * Women's British Open – Jeong Jang
 * LPGA Tour money leader – Annika Sörenstam won $2,588,240

Handball

 * 2005 World Men's Handball Championship: Spain

Horse racing
Steeplechases Flat races
 * Cheltenham Gold Cup – Kicking King
 * Grand National – Hedgehunter
 * Australia – Melbourne Cup won by Makybe Diva for the third time in succession
 * Canada – Queen's Plate won by Wild Desert
 * Dubai – Dubai World Cup won by Roses in May
 * France – Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe won by Hurricane Run
 * Ireland – Irish Derby Stakes won by Hurricane Run
 * Japan
 * Deep Impact won the Satsuki Sho (Japanese 2,000 Guineas), Tokyo Yushun (Japanese Derby), and Kikuka Sho (Japanese St. Leger) to become the first horse since 1994 to win the Japanese Triple Crown.
 * Japan Cup won by Alkaased
 * English Triple Crown Races:
 * 2,000 Guineas Stakes – Footstepsinthesand
 * The Derby – Motivator
 * St. Leger Stakes – Scorpion
 * United States Triple Crown Races:
 * Kentucky Derby – Giacomo
 * Preakness Stakes – Afleet Alex
 * Belmont Stakes – Afleet Alex
 * Breeders' Cup World Thoroughbred Championships:
 * Breeders' Cup Classic – Saint Liam
 * Breeders' Cup Distaff – Pleasant Home
 * Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf – Intercontinental
 * Breeders' Cup Juvenile – Stevie Wonderboy
 * Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies – Folklore
 * Breeders' Cup Mile – Artie Schiller
 * Breeders' Cup Sprint – Silver Train
 * Breeders' Cup Turf – Shirocco

Ice hockey

 * February 16 – the 2004–05 NHL season was canceled by league commissioner Gary Bettman. This was the first time that a North American professional sports league had to cancel a season due to a labor dispute.
 * May 29 – Memorial Cup – London Knights defeat Rimouski Océanic 4–0 to win the Memorial Cup.
 * June 1 – Kelly Cup – Trenton Titans defeat Florida Everblades 4 games to 2 to win the Kelly Cup.
 * June 10 – Calder Cup – Philadelphia Phantoms defeat Chicago Wolves 4 games to 0 to win the Calder Cup.
 * The Philadelphia Flyers top two minor league affiliates, the ECHL Trenton Titans and the AHL Philadelphia Phantoms, both win their respective championship series.
 * July 22 – the 2004–05 NHL lockout ends when a new collective bargaining agreement between the NHL and NHLPA is reached.

Lacrosse
Major League Lacrosse (USA) National Lacrosse League NCAA Division I (US Collegiate) European lacrosse
 * Baltimore Bayhawks defeated Long Island Lizards 15–9 to win the Steinfeld Cup.
 * MLL announces four expansion teams to start play in the 2006 season and create a Western Conference: Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles and San Francisco.
 * The Toronto Rock defeat the Arizona Sting to win the Champion's Cup.
 * Les Bartley, former coach and GM of the Toronto Rock, dies later that week.
 * Gary Gait, of the Colorado Mammoth, retires along with his twin brother Paul Gait ending an era of lacrosse.
 * Johns Hopkins University obtains the No. 1 seed in the post-season tournament, and wins the NCAA Men's Lacrosse Championship in Philadelphia on May 30 to go unbeaten.
 * Northwestern University wins their first Division I NCAA Women's Lacrosse Championship.
 * November 10 – Austrian Lacrosse Association (ÖLAXV) is founded.

Mixed martial arts
The following is a list of major noteworthy MMA events during 2005 in chronological order.

 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|Date
 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|Event
 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|Alternate Name/s
 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|Location
 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|Attendance
 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|PPV Buyrate
 * align=center style="border-style: none none solid solid; background: #e3e3e3"|Notes
 * -align=center
 * February 5
 * UFC 51: Super Saturday
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * 11,072
 * 105,000
 * This event was originally going to be held in Japan. However was moved it back to Las Vegas.
 * -align=center
 * February 20
 * Pride 29: Fists of Fire
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Saitama, Japan
 * 22,047
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * March 26
 * K-1 Hero's 1
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Saitama, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * K-1 Hero's first event.
 * -align=center
 * April 3
 * Pride Bushido 6
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Yokohama, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * April 9
 * The Ultimate Fighter 1 Finale
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * This event is credited for saving the UFC from bankruptcy and launching the MMA into the mainstream American media.
 * -align=center
 * April 16
 * UFC 52: Couture vs. Liddell 2
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * 14,562
 * 280,000
 * Dan "The Beast" Severn was inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame at this event.
 * -align=center
 * April 23
 * Pride Total Elimination 2005
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Osaka, Japan
 * 45,423
 * N/A
 * Opening round to Pride GP 2005 middleweight tournament.
 * -align=center
 * May 7
 * Rumble on the Rock 7
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * May 22
 * Pride Bushido 7
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Tokyo, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * June 4
 * UFC 53: Heavy Hitters
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA
 * 12,000
 * 90,000
 * This event was originally going to be held in Yokohama. However the lack of a sponsorship for the event moved it to Atlantic City.
 * -align=center
 * June 26
 * Pride Critical Countdown 2005
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Saitama, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * Quarterfinals to Pride GP 2005 middleweight tournament.
 * -align=center
 * July 6
 * K-1 Hero's 2
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Tokyo, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * July 17
 * Pride Bushido 8
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Nagoya, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * July 29
 * K-1 World Grand Prix 2005 in Hawaii
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * Event featured ten K-1 kickboxing bouts and four K-1 MMA bouts.
 * -align=center
 * August 6
 * UFC Ultimate Fight Night
 * Ultimate Fight Night
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * August 20
 * UFC 54: Boiling Point
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * 13,520
 * 150,000
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * August 28
 * Pride Final Conflict 2005
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Saitama, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * Semifinals and final to Pride GP 2005 middleweight tournament. Maurício Rua becomes the Pride 2005 middleweight Grand Prix champion.
 * -align=center
 * September 7
 * K-1 Hero's 3
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Tokyo, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * September 25
 * Pride Bushido 9
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Tokyo, Japan
 * 10,775
 * N/A
 * Quarterfinals and semifinals to Pride GP 2005 lightweight and welterweight tournaments.
 * -align=center
 * October 3
 * UFC Ultimate Fight Night 2
 * Ultimate Fight Night 2
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * This event was aired at the same time WWE was on, in a ratings battle.
 * -align=center
 * October 3
 * UFC 55: Fury
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Uncasville, Connecticut, USA
 * 8,000
 * 125,000
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * October 3
 * Pride 30: Starting Over
 * Pride 30: Fully Loaded
 * 🇯🇵 Saitama, Japan
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * November 5
 * The Ultimate Fighter 2 Finale
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * November 5
 * K-1 Seoul Hero's
 * N/A
 * 🇰🇷 Seoul, South Korea
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * November 19
 * UFC 56: Full Force
 * N/A
 * 🇺🇸 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 * 12,000
 * 200,000
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * November 26
 * K-1 Hero's Lithuania 2005
 * N/A
 * Vilnius, Lithuania
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * December 3
 * Cage Rage 14: Punishment
 * N/A
 * 🏴 London, England
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * N/A
 * -align=center
 * December 3
 * Pride Shockwave 2005
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Saitama, Japan
 * 49,801
 * N/A
 * Finals to Pride GP 2005 lightweight and welterweight tournaments. Takanori Gomi becomes the Pride 2005 lightweight Grand Prix champion. Dan Henderson becomes the Pride 2005 welterweight Grand Prix champion.
 * -align=center
 * December 3
 * K-1 PREMIUM 2005 Dynamite!!
 * N/A
 * 🇯🇵 Osaka, Japan
 * 53,025
 * N/A
 * Event featured seven K-1 Hero's MMA bouts and four K-1 kickboxing bouts.
 * -align=center
 * -align=center

Radiosport

 * 6th High Speed Telegraphy World Championship held in Ohrid, Republic of Macedonia.

Rugby league

 * February 4 at Elland Road, Leeds – 2005 World Club Challenge match is won by the Leeds Rhinos who defeated the Bulldogs 39–32 before 37,208
 * April 22 at Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane – in the 2005 ANZAC Day Test, Australia defeat New Zealand 32–16 before 40,317
 * July 5 at Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane – 2005 State of Origin is won by New South Wales in the third and deciding match of the series against Queensland before 52,436
 * August 27 at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff – 2005 Challenge Cup tournament won by Hull F.C. with a 25–24 win over Leeds Rhinos before 74,213
 * October 2 at Telstra Stadium, Sydney – 2005 NRL season culminates in the Wests Tigers 30–16 win over the North Queensland Cowboys in the Grand Final before 82,453
 * October 15 at Old Trafford, Manchester – Super League X culminates in Bradford Bulls 15–6 win over Leeds Rhinos in the Grand Final before 65,728
 * November 26 at Elland Road, Leeds – 2005 Rugby League Tri-Nations tournament culminates in New Zealand's 24–0 win over Australia in the final before 26,534

Rugby union

 * 110th Six Nations Championship series is won by Wales who complete the Grand Slam
 * 2005 British & Irish Lions tour to New Zealand – The Lions suffer a 3–0 whitewash to New Zealand, as well as losing to the New Zealand Māori side. It was the first time in 22 years that a Lions side had lost every Test match on tour.
 * Tri Nations – New Zealand wins for the 6th time. The All Blacks also picked up the Bledisloe Cup in the process.
 * Heineken Cup – Toulouse defeat Stade Français 18–12 in the final.
 * Super 12 – The Crusaders defeat the Waratahs 35–25 in the final
 * Zurich Premiership (England) – Leicester Tigers win the league, Wasps win the playoffs
 * Celtic League – Ospreys
 * Top 16 (France) – Biarritz defeat Stade Français 37–34 in the final
 * National Provincial Championship (New Zealand): Auckland defeat Otago 39–11 in the final
 * Currie Cup (South Africa) – Cheetahs defeat Blue Bulls 29–25 in the final
 * In the November Tests, the All Blacks (New Zealand) score a "Grand Slam" by defeating all four Home Nations (Wales, Ireland, England, Scotland) while on tour. This is the first such Grand Slam for a Southern Hemisphere team since Australia did so in 1984, and the first for the All Blacks since 1978.

Snooker

 * World Championship – Shaun Murphy beats Matthew Stevens 18–16

Sumo

 * Asashōryū Akinori wins all six basho (tournament) in 2005 (a new record) and wins eighty-four bouts (out of ninety) setting a new record for victories in a single year. His seventh straight basho championship is also a new record.

Swimming

 * 11th World LC Championships held in Montreal
 * 23rd Summer Universiade held in İzmir, Turkey
 * 9th European SC Championships held in Trieste, Italy
 * Germany wins the most medals (13); Germany and Poland win the most gold medals (5)

Taekwondo

 * World Championships held in Madrid, Spain

Tennis

 * Australian Open
 * Men's Final: Marat Safin defeats Lleyton Hewitt
 * Women's Final: Serena Williams defeats Lindsay Davenport
 * French Open
 * Men's Final: Rafael Nadal defeats Mariano Puerta
 * Women's Final: Justine Henin-Hardenne defeats Mary Pierce
 * Wimbledon Championships
 * Men's Final: Roger Federer defeats Andy Roddick
 * Ladies' Final: Venus Williams defeats Lindsay Davenport
 * US Open
 * Men's Final: Roger Federer defeats Andre Agassi
 * Women's Final: Kim Clijsters defeats Mary Pierce

Triathlon

 * ITU World Championships held in Gamagōri, Japan

Volleyball

 * Men's World League: Brazil
 * Women's World Grand Prix: Brazil

Water polo

 * 2005 FINA Men's World Water Polo Championship: Yugoslavia
 * 2005 FINA Men's Water Polo World League: Yugoslavia
 * 2005 FINA Women's World Water Polo Championship: Hungary
 * 2005 FINA Women's Water Polo World League: Greece

Weightlifting

 * World Championships held in Doha, Qatar
 * European Championships held in Sofia, Bulgaria

Multi-sport events

 * Fourth East Asian Games held in Macau, China
 * 20th Summer Deaflympics held in Melbourne, Australia
 * 23rd Southeast Asian Games held in Manila, Philippines
 * First Asian Indoor Games held in Bangkok, Thailand
 * Seventh World Games held in Duisburg, Germany
 * 15th Mediterranean Games held in Almería, Spain
 * XXIII Summer Universiade held in İzmir, Turkey
 * Russia tops the medal table with a total number of 65 medals, including 26 golds.
 * XXII Winter Universiade held in Innsbruck, Austria
 * Austria tops the medal table with a total number of 21 medals, including 10 golds.

Awards

 * Associated Press Male Athlete of the Year – Lance Armstrong, Cycling
 * Associated Press Female Athlete of the Year – Annika Sörenstam, LPGA golf

title: 2005 in sports


text:
Freedom Ship

Freedom Ship is a floating city project initially proposed in the late 1990s. The namesake of the project reflects the designer's vision of a mobile ocean colony, such that it is free from the property, municipal, or federal laws of any nation states. The project would not be a conventional ship, but rather a series of linked barges.

The Freedom Ship project envisioned an integrated city 1800 m long with condominium housing for 80,000 people, a hospital, school system, hotel, casino, commercial and office occupancies, duty-free shopping and other facilities, large enough to require rapid transit. The complex would have circumnavigated the globe continuously, stopping regularly at ports of call.

Construction
Freedom Ship International initially estimated the net cost for construction to be US$6 billion in 1999. However, by 2002, estimates had risen to US$11 billion. A July 2008 press release explained the difficulty of obtaining reliable financial backing. In November 2013, the company announced that the project, now with an estimated price of US$10 billion, was being resurrected, though that construction had not yet begun. In 2016, the project affiliated with Kanethara Marine in India.

Similar projects
The basic idea had been published by Jules Verne in his novel Propeller Island. No technical details were given, but the book includes the idea of building a gigantic raft. The main aim of the project was saving taxes, as the Island would move around the world on an annual basis.

Other projects, such as the ResidenSea, have similarly attempted to create mobile communities, though they have conservatively limited themselves to the constraints of conventional shipbuilding. In regard to the economic flexibility and "freedom" created by such mobile settlements, these projects could be considered a realization of the avant-garde Walking City concept from 1964, by British architect Ron Herron of the group Archigram. The Freedom Ship also served as the inspiration for (and is closely resembled by) the Libertania, a mobile ship depicted in Grant Morrison's comic book The Filth. In the 1950s, Buckminster Fuller also proposed "floating cities" approximately a mile wide that could accommodate up to 50,000 permanent inhabitants. Mike Wallace interviewed Buckminster Fuller on TV regarding this "floating cities" concept, which Fuller explained would free up land needed for agriculture and industrial uses.

title: Freedom Ship


text:
Robert Mondavi

Robert Gerald Mondavi (June 18, 1913 – May 16, 2008) was an American winemaker. His technical and marketing strategies brought worldwide recognition for the wines of the Napa Valley in California. From an early period, Mondavi promoted labeling wines varietally rather than generically, which became the standard for New World wines. The Robert Mondavi Institute (RMI) for Wine and Food Science at the University of California, Davis opened in October 2008 in his honor.

Family history
Robert Mondavi's parents, Cesare Mondavi and Rosa Grassi, emigrated from Sassoferrato in the Marche region of Italy and settled in Hibbing, Minnesota. Robert Gerald Mondavi was born in Virginia, Minnesota. From Minnesota the Mondavi family moved to Lodi, California, where he attended Lodi High School. In Lodi, his father, Cesare, established a fruit packing business under the name C. Mondavi and Sons, packing and shipping grapes to the east coast primarily for home winemaking. Mondavi graduated from Stanford University in 1936 with a degree in economics and business administration.

In 1943, Mondavi joined his father and brother Peter after the family acquired the Charles Krug Winery located in St. Helena, California, from James Moffitt. In 1965, Robert Mondavi left the family winery after a feud with his younger brother Peter over the business direction of the Krug Winery. Subsequently, Mondavi started his own winery in Oakville, California.

Part of Mondavi's original vineyard land included the To Kalon (a Greek term meaning "the beautiful") vineyard originally established by Napa Valley pioneer H.W. Crabb in 1868. The winery produced wine in the California mission style. Mondavi selected Cliff May to design the winery building, which opened in 1966 and is now considered an architectural icon in the Napa Valley, with an expansive entryway arch and bell tower.

Family
In 1937, Mondavi married his high school sweetheart, Marjorie Ellen (Declusin) Mondavi. Together, the couple had three children: Michael, Marcia, and Tim. In the late 1970s, their marriage ended in a divorce. In 1980, at the age of 67, he married Margrit (Kellenberger) Biever Mondavi, a Swiss-born, and multilingual woman who worked at the Robert Mondavi winery.

Wine history
In 1968, Mondavi made a dry oak–aged Sauvignon blanc, an unpopular variety in California at the time, and labeled it "Fumé Blanc".

Mondavi entered into a joint venture with Baron Philippe de Rothschild of Château Mouton Rothschild to create Opus One Winery, and since the 1990s has set up joint ventures with local partners in Europe, South America and Australia.

In the Grand European Jury Wine Tasting of 1997, the Robert Mondavi Chardonnay Reserve was ranked number one.

In 2005, Robert Mondavi and his younger brother Peter made wine together for the first time after their feud. Using grapes from both family vineyards, they produced one barrel of cabernet blend, which was sold for $400,000 under the name "Ancora Una Volta" ("Once Again") at the 2005 Napa Valley Auction.

Legacy
In 2001, Robert Mondavi donated $10 million to help with the building cost of the Robert and Margrit Mondavi Center for the Performing Arts building at UC Davis.

In 2003, Mondavi expressed regret and criticized his sons for the business strategy that emphasized the inexpensive Mondavi lines, Coastal and Woodbridge, over the premium wines, allowing the company name to lose its association with fine wine it held in the past. He said, "We've got to get our image back, and that's going to take time."

In the 2004 documentary film Mondovino, the Mondavi family featured prominently, in close application to its theme of globalization.

On December 22, 2004, Constellation Brands acquired the Mondavi winery in a controversial takeover for nearly US$1.36 billion in cash and assumption of debt. Following the sale of the company, Mondavi partnered with his younger son Tim Mondavi and daughter Marcia Mondavi to make a single wine from a single estate at the highest level.

Robert and Margrit were also founding supporters of the restoration of the 19th-century Napa Valley Opera House and the Oxbow School, a new art school in Napa that provides grants and instruction to art students in their junior year of high school.

Death
Robert Mondavi died at his Yountville home on May 16, 2008, at the age of 94.

Awards and honors
In 1985, Mondavi received the Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement.

Robert Mondavi was selected as the Decanter "Man of the Year" in 1989. He was inducted into the Junior Achievement U.S. Business Hall of Fame in 1991.

In 2000 he was awarded Doctor of Oenology, Honoris Causa, by the Board of Trustees of Johnson & Wales University.

In 2002, he received the Order of Merit of the Italian Republic. In 2005, he received the Legion of Honour from the French government.

On December 5, 2007, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and First Lady Maria Shriver inducted Mondavi into the California Hall of Fame, located at The California Museum for History, Women and the Arts.

He was inducted into the Culinary Institute of America Vintner's Hall of Fame in 2007. The election was based upon ballots from seventy wine journalists. The decision for their election of Mondavi is for contributions to the wine industry of California during his lifetime.

Robert Mondavi was awarded the Presidential Gold Medal of the Confrerie de la Chaine des Rotisseurs in December 2006 for his many contributions to the Society.

title: Robert Mondavi


text:
Kleifarvatn

Kleifarvatn is the largest lake on the Reykjanes Peninsula in Iceland, situated in the southern part of the peninsula. It is located on the fissure zone of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. The lake has no visible water coming in or going out as most of its water comes and leaves underground. The lake can be reached via a track, and there are two areas with high temperature that can be found not far from it: Seltún/Krýsuvík and another to the east. A 2012 survey demonstrated one definite geothermal vent under the lake and suggested two others in a linear line trending as for most of the faults in the area.

Kleifarvatn was first surveyed in 1964 and studied at greater resolution later. The lake's greatest recorded depth was 97 m in 1975 with height above sea level of 140 m. After the 2000 Iceland earthquakes, the lake began to diminish, so that at least 20% of its surface has since disappeared and the serial surveys suggest there has been some material deposition as depth has reduced more than height above sea level of the lake surface. By 2012 the surface was at 135 m with a maximum depth of 89.5 m. The lake by then was only 7.3615 km in area. Its area previously been measured between 7.5 and 10 km2. The pattern of sedimentation suggests that at some time in the past the lake was smaller in size than it was in 2012.

The novel Kleifarvatn by Icelandic writer Arnaldur Indriðason was named after the lake.

title: Kleifarvatn