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Katie Finneran

Katie Finneran (born January 22, 1971) is an American actress best known for her Tony Award–winning performances in the Broadway play Noises Off in 2002, and the musical Promises, Promises in 2010.

Early life
Finneran was born in Chicago, Illinois, of Irish Catholic extraction. She was raised in Miami, Florida, where she attended the New World School of the Arts High School. She attended Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh for one year before moving to New York City at age 19 to study acting with Uta Hagen at HB Studio.

Film
Finneran's biggest film role was as Judy Rose in the remake of George A. Romero's Night of the Living Dead. Her film credits include You've Got Mail, Chicken Little, Liberty Heights, Bewitched, Miss Congeniality 2: Armed and Fabulous, and Death to Smoochy.

Television
She co-starred in television series Wonderfalls. She was also featured as a part of the cast on the Fox show The Inside, in the short-lived CBS sitcom Bram & Alice, and in many guest roles in shows like Frasier, Sex and the City and Oz. In 2007 Finneran was featured in the new series Drive. She played the sister of the main character, Alex Tully (Nathan Fillion).

In an interview for the DVD of the full series of Wonderfalls, Finneran said that when asked if she felt nervous about playing lesbian immigration attorney Sharon Tyler on Wonderfalls she replied, "I'd rather have people think that I'm a lesbian than a lawyer."

In 2012, she co-starred in the Fox sitcom I Hate My Teenage Daughter. From 2013 to 2014, she played Leigh Henry on the NBC sitcom, The Michael J. Fox Show. She has also appeared in the Netflix series Bloodline.

In April 2019, CBS announced that Finneran would be starring in a recurring role as Naomi in the CBS All Access series Why Women Kill.

In 2022, Finneran starred in The Gilded Age on HBO.

Theatre
Finneran "has played barflies and rich girls, giggly ingénues and world-weary lowlifes..."

She played a "lovely but dim fashion model" in the original Broadway production of Neil Simon's Proposals in 1997–98, Sally Bowles in the 1998 Broadway revival of Cabaret (from November 21, 2000 to January 18, 2001), and call girl Cora in the 1999 Broadway revival of The Iceman Cometh, opposite Kevin Spacey. She also has appeared in My Favorite Year with Tim Curry, John Guare's Bosoms and Neglect, and Smell of the Kill, with Kristen Johnston.

She won the Tony Award and the Drama Desk Award for Best Featured Actress in a Play in 2002 for her role as Brooke Ashton in the Broadway revival of Noises Off.

Finneran appeared Off-Broadway at the Laura Pels Theater in the Greg Kotis play Pig Farm, in the original opening cast as Tina. The play opened in June 2006 and ran through September 23, 2006.

Finneran appeared in the original cast of Love, Loss, and What I Wore, which opened Off-Broadway at the Westside Theater in September 19, 2009 for a four-week engagement ending on October 18, 2009. The play "....is performed by a rotating cast of five. For the first four weeks of the run Ms. [Rosie] O'Donnell is joined by the actresses Tyne Daly, Katie Finneran and Natasha Lyonne, and Samantha Bee..." Finneran returned to the show (after her initial four-week engagement) on November 18, 2009, to fill in for Kristin Chenoweth, and continued on in the play in the next four-week rotation as well (from December 14, 2009, to January 3, 2010). She appeared in the first Broadway revival of the musical Promises, Promises as Marge MacDougall, opposite Kristin Chenoweth and Sean Hayes. The show opened March 27, 2010 and Finneran left the show on October 10, 2010 because of her pregnancy. She won the 2010 Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in a Musical for this role.

In 2011 she played the role of Amy in Company, a filmed version of the 1970 musical of the same name by Stephen Sondheim and George Furth. The production was directed by Lonny Price and accompanied by the New York Philharmonic, conducted by Paul Gemignani. It was filmed live at Avery Fisher Hall in Lincoln Center. The show was led by Neil Patrick Harris.

Finneran played the role of Miss Hannigan in the 2012 Broadway revival of the musical Annie. She left the role in May 2013 to pursue a TV pilot.

Finneran returned to Broadway in 2015 to star in Terrence McNally's It's Only a Play as Julia Budder.

Personal life
Finneran and actor Darren Goldstein married on August 22, 2010; the couple has two children.

title: Katie Finneran


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White River (New Zealand)

The White River is a river in the South Island of New Zealand.

It drains from the eastern flanks of the Southern Alps / Kā Tiritiri o te Moana into the Waimakariri River. It is accessible by getting to Klondike Corner on State Highway 73, following the Waimakariri up to Carrington Hut, and turning west. The most common reason for travelling up the White river is to get to Barker Hut, a base for climbing Mounts Murchison, Wakeman and Harper. Following the river to its source takes the traveller to White Col.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: White River (New Zealand)


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Libya of Egypt

Libya (mythology)  (Λιβύη) is the daughter of Epaphus, King of Egypt, in both Greek and Roman mythology. She personified the land of Ancient Libya in North Africa, from which the name of modern-day Libya originated.

Mythology
Libya, like Ethiopia or Scythia was one of the mythic outlands that encircled the familiar Greek world of the Hellenes and their "foreign" neighbors.

Personified as an individual, Libya was the daughter of Epaphus —King of Egypt, and the son of Zeus and Io—and Memphis, daughter of the river-god Nilus. In one account, her mother was called Cassiopeia.

Libya was ravished by the god Poseidon to whom she bore twin sons, Belus and Agenor. Some sources name a third son, named Lelex. According to late accounts, Lybee (Libya) consorted instead with Zeus and became the mother of Belus.

Libya is also the mother of Calliste by Triton.

In Hyginus' Fabulae, Libye was called the daughter of Palamedes (corrected as Epaphus), who mothered Libys by Hermes.

title: Libya of Egypt


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Urelement

In set theory, a branch of mathematics, an urelement or ur-element (from the German prefix ur-, 'primordial') is an object that is not a set (has no elements), but that may be an element of a set. It is also referred to as an atom or individual. Ur-elements are also not identical with the empty set.

Theory
There are several different but essentially equivalent ways to treat urelements in a first-order theory.

One way is to work in a first-order theory with two sorts, sets and urelements, with a ∈ b only defined when b is a set. In this case, if U is an urelement, it makes no sense to say $$X \in U$$, although $$U \in X$$ is perfectly legitimate.

Another way is to work in a one-sorted theory with a unary relation used to distinguish sets and urelements. As non-empty sets contain members while urelements do not, the unary relation is only needed to distinguish the empty set from urelements. Note that in this case, the axiom of extensionality must be formulated to apply only to objects that are not urelements.

This situation is analogous to the treatments of theories of sets and classes. Indeed, urelements are in some sense dual to proper classes: urelements cannot have members whereas proper classes cannot be members. Put differently, urelements are minimal objects while proper classes are maximal objects by the membership relation (which, of course, is not an order relation, so this analogy is not to be taken literally).

Urelements in set theory
The Zermelo set theory of 1908 included urelements, and hence is a version now called ZFA or ZFCA (i.e. ZFA with axiom of choice). It was soon realized that in the context of this and closely related axiomatic set theories, the urelements were not needed because they can easily be modeled in a set theory without urelements. Thus, standard expositions of the canonical axiomatic set theories ZF and ZFC do not mention urelements (for an exception, see Suppes ). Axiomatizations of set theory that do invoke urelements include Kripke–Platek set theory with urelements and the variant of Von Neumann–Bernays–Gödel set theory described by Mendelson. In type theory, an object of type 0 can be called an urelement; hence the name "atom".

Adding urelements to the system New Foundations (NF) to produce NFU has surprising consequences. In particular, Jensen proved the consistency of NFU relative to Peano arithmetic; meanwhile, the consistency of NF relative to anything remains an open problem, pending verification of Holmes's proof of its consistency relative to ZF. Moreover, NFU remains relatively consistent when augmented with an axiom of infinity and the axiom of choice. Meanwhile, the negation of the axiom of choice is, curiously, an NF theorem. Holmes (1998) takes these facts as evidence that NFU is a more successful foundation for mathematics than NF. Holmes further argues that set theory is more natural with than without urelements, since we may take as urelements the objects of any theory or of the physical universe. In finitist set theory, urelements are mapped to the lowest-level components of the target phenomenon, such as atomic constituents of a physical object or members of an organisation.

Quine atoms
An alternative approach to urelements is to consider them, instead of as a type of object other than sets, as a particular type of set. Quine atoms (named after Willard Van Orman Quine) are sets that only contain themselves, that is, sets that satisfy the formula x = {x}.

Quine atoms cannot exist in systems of set theory that include the axiom of regularity, but they can exist in non-well-founded set theory. ZF set theory with the axiom of regularity removed cannot prove that any non-well-founded sets exist (unless it is inconsistent, in which case it will prove any arbitrary statement), but it is compatible with the existence of Quine atoms. Aczel's anti-foundation axiom implies that there is a unique Quine atom. Other non-well-founded theories may admit many distinct Quine atoms; at the opposite end of the spectrum lies Boffa's axiom of superuniversality, which implies that the distinct Quine atoms form a proper class.

Quine atoms also appear in Quine's New Foundations, which allows more than one such set to exist.

Quine atoms are the only sets called reflexive sets by Peter Aczel, although other authors, e.g. Jon Barwise and Lawrence Moss, use the latter term to denote the larger class of sets with the property x ∈ x.

title: Urelement


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List of most-watched television broadcasts

This article lists the television broadcasts that had the most viewers within individual countries, as measured by ratings and research agencies in those countries. The research methodology and choice of statistics varies between sources, and is explained in individual sections.

Because many events are watched simultaneously around the world and recorded programs are exported to multiple countries, it is difficult to collate reliable figures for global audiences. Those countries where reliable figures are available may use incompatible methodologies, such as the minimum age of counted viewers, and what proportion of the program must be watched when measuring the "reach" of a program, rather than its average or peak audience. Figures published by organisers and journalists are routinely exaggerated or misrepresented, claiming billions of viewers worldwide, where independent analysis suggests few if any broadcasts have reached 1 billion viewers.

Although numbers are unreliable, it is generally accepted that the most widely watched events worldwide are international sporting events such as the Summer Olympic Games, FIFA World Cup, and the Cricket World Cup with annual events such as the Super Bowl in the U.S., the Indian Premier League in India and the UEFA Champions League finals in Europe picking up large regional audiences. Other broadcasts frequently claimed to have broken records include news events such as the 1969 Apollo 11 Moon landing, funerals of significant figures such as Michael Jackson, Diana, Princess of Wales,  or Elizabeth II, and music events such as the 1985 Live Aid benefit concert, 1993 Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Most-watched broadcasts of all time (total viewers)
The following is David Dale's approximate ranking of the most-watched television shows of all time in Australia using data from Nielsen Corporation and OzTAM.

Note: the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II, the Wedding of Prince Charles and the Wedding of Prince William were all carried by all 4 major networks and are counted together.

Most viewed broadcasts since 2001 (OzTAM 5 City Metro Average)
The following table is a list of the most viewed programs based on the OzTAM 5 City Metro Average rating system. It does not include regional numbers (40% of the population) and uses the average viewership, not the peak viewership. Also note these ratings are not comparable with ratings before 2001 due to different methodologies used after this time.

Canada
The two most-watched television broadcasts in Canadian history occurred during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. For the gold medal game of the men's hockey tournament at the 2010 Winter Olympics, played between the United States and Canada, confirmed 16.6 million Canadians watched the whole game, roughly one-half of the country's entire population. A groundbreaking 26.5 million Canadians watched some part of the game, over 80 percent of the country's 34-million-person population. According to multiple sources, 13.3 million Canadians watched the games' opening ceremony, which was the previous record.

Many believed the final game of the 1972 Summit Series had up to 18 million viewers, but only 4.3 million TVs tuned in. This statistic does not represent the reality that most school children (representing the tail end of the baby-boom i.e. a large population) nationwide watched the game in gymnasiums on only one or two TVs. 10.3 million people watched the ice hockey gold medal final of the 2002 Winter Olympics.

China
China Central Television's Spring Festival Gala has regularly attracted between 700 million to 1.17 billion viewers annually.

The CCTV's main evening news broadcast Xinwen Lianbo has a daily audience of around 135 million people, and it is also one of the most expensive shows in the world per advertising spots, with its 2013 advertising slots selling for a record of 5.4 billion yuan.

The Legend of Bruce Lee (2008), based on the life of Bruce Lee, has been watched by over 400 million viewers in China, making it the most-watched Chinese television drama series of all time, as of 2017.

A Chinese boxer Zou Shiming's professional boxing debut on 6 April 2013 generated an estimated 300 million viewers. Another professional boxer Qiu Xiaojun attracted around 200 million people for his fight against Ghanaian fighter Raymond Commey on 12 February 2016.

Denmark
The following are the ten most watched programs from 1992 onwards.

Germany
Note: The UEFA Euro 2008 final is missing from the list, because the lengthy trophy presentation was included into the official ratings. The game itself was watched by 28.05 million viewers.

India
India measures the viewership of shows through TRP (Television Rating Point). Shows used to have higher ratings in 2000s as compared to present decade. The present shows that regularly score above or around the 3.5 mark are Kumkum Bhagya, and its spin off Kundali Bhagya along with Yeh Rishta Kya Kehlata Hai. Sometimes these shows touch 4 which is still quite low as compared to highest rated shows of the last decade. Other than that Naagin is the only show now that scores above 4.7. All of these shows are produced by the same banner (Balaji Telefilms) except Yeh Rishta Kya Kehlata Hai. Currently, Bigg Boss 13 has been the most watched show of 2020, recording an 11.3 TRP for the final and an average of 8.3 TRP on regular episodes, being the most watched reality show in India. Ironically, 2.5–3.5 TRP was considered an average in the 2000s era of classic serials. In the 2000s, the most watched show in India was Kyunki Saas Bhi Kabhi Bahu Thi (2000–2008) which garnered double digit ratings for 6 years on StarPlus. The most-watched channel for years has been StarPlus, then Zee TV with major competition from Colors. Mahabharat (1988–1990), the television adaptation of Indian epic Mahabharata, had a share of 97.8% among Indian viewers.

Aamir Khan's talk show Satyamev Jayate (2012–2014) drew an estimated audience of 600million viewers in India. The 2016 ICC World Twenty20 cricket cup was watched by an estimated 730million viewers in India, with India vs. Pakistan being the most widely watched live event during the tournament.

Ireland
A list of most-watched shows in the Republic of Ireland in the 21st century was released in January 2015. The Late Late Toy Show held the top six spots, with the 2014 edition drawing 1,593,000 viewers: over one-third of the country's population. Other high-performing shows were Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?, crime drama Love/Hate, Mrs. Brown's Boys, The Sunday Game, UEFA Euro 2012 and the Eurovision Song Contest.

Japan
The following is a list of the top 50 highest rated broadcasts of all time in Japan since Video Research started their ratings survey on December 3, 1962.

The following list is for Japanese anime only. The list covers broadcasts after 26 September 1977. Video Research had previously recorded an episode of the 1960s Astro Boy anime that earned a 40.3% rating.

The following is a list of the most-watched films of all time on Nippon TV (NTV),.

Mexico
A list of most-watched shows in the Mexico, Televisa and TV Azteca broadcasters (Liga MX Apertura and Clausura), Boxing, 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City, (FIFA World Cup hosts 1970 & 1986), some concerts like Maná's Unidos por La Paz at Estadio Azteca in March 2001; in 2007, the last episode of La Fea Más Bella", Funeral events like Chespirito in December 2014 the creator of TV Series El Chavo and El Chapulín Colorado, and Celebration of Mexican political anniversaries in 2010 celebrate independence from Spain also called Bicentenario 2010, had an average audience of over 40 million views in Mexican Television.

Netherlands
Since 2002, Stichting KijkOnderzoek is keeping track of viewership of Dutch television channels. All programs with a viewership over 7 million since the start of tracking are shown in the table below.

New Zealand
In 2011, the television website Throng published a list of the 12 most-watched television broadcasts in New Zealand from 1995 to 2011. This is based on average viewership of the program, but it does not include broadcasts from before 1995 or after 2011.

The Rugby World Cup has frequently had large audiences – the 2011 Rugby World Cup final, and a semi-final, both had an average audience of over 2 million.

AGB Nielsen
The following table shows the all-time highest rating television shows in Mega Manila as tallied by AGB Nielsen since 1992. However, ratings are from a single highest recorded episode of the show (in the case of the TV series) and it is not the average over-all ratings for the whole season or series.

Poland
List of the 10 most-watched television broadcasts since the beginning of telemetry research in Poland (since 1997) by Nielsen Media Research:

South Korea
Viewership ratings are provided by two companies in South Korea, AGB Nielsen Media Research and TNmS. Originally Media Service Korea was the only company providing such information, and it was later acquired by Nielsen Media Research. In 1999, TNS Media Korea also began such service, and later changed its name to TNmS. AGB collects viewership data based on 2050 households, while TNmS has 2000 households with measuring devices. Drama ratings usually vary between the two companies by 2–3%.

Sweden
Statistics from Mediamätning Skandinavien

United States
Though the Apollo 11 Moon landing is the most watched television event in American history, it is considered a news event, meaning that CBS and Nickelodeon's live telecast of Super Bowl LVIII in 2024 holds the record for the largest average viewership of any live network U.S. television broadcast, with 123.7 million viewers. During this broadcast, the halftime show was watched by 129.1 million viewers. Super Bowl XLV's live broadcast in February 2011 helped Fox become the first television network in the United States to be watched by at least 100 million American viewers by average for a single primetime night of programming. Moreover, Super Bowl telecasts account for 22 of the most-watched television broadcasts based on overall viewership in U.S. television history. Fox's live telecast of Super Bowl LI in 2017 currently holds the largest total viewership (those who watched any part of the broadcast) in U.S. television history, with 172 million viewers.


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of veterans

Impossible to maintain. Target for vanity articles. Far too many people to make a meaningful page. RickK 03:36, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete.. it just seems like a bad idea to try to maintain these articles. --Stormie 03:47, May 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, if the titles are changed to "prominent people who are ________ veterans." -- Cecropia 03:56, 9 May 2004 (UTC)~
 * agreed, delete. Naming conventions are against use of the word "prominent". who's to decide what that means anyways? --Jiang 04:29, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * The standard on who to include is no different than the appropriateness of any other article, IMO -- Cecropia | Talk 06:01, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * With great regret, delete. I would love to have these lists available as a resource somewhere. Unfortunately, in Wikipedia these articles would be impossible to verify or to protect from vandalism. Rossami 15:33, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Huh? You could say that about any article.  "It's too hard" has never been an excuse to avoid having a useful article here.  Jgm 21:29, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * The "digits of Pi" articles were deleted because they were too hard to maintain or protect from vandalism. The same reasoning applies here.  Most of our articles can be successfully maintained because we have a critical mass of informed reader/editors who know the content thoroughly and who can spot vandalism even in the details.  The content is definitive and sourcable. I do not believe that these lists meet the test.  Let's say you get the list of WW I veterans fully populated.  Tomorrow, someone adds a name in the middle of the list and says "my uncle served".  How can any future reader possibly know if the addition is true?  Can even the person who created the list know if this entry represents an error in their source (government records are hardly infallible) or a fraudulent entry?  The source data are scattered and incomplete which makes it functionally impossible to verify the entry.  Frankly, even the definition of "veteran" is troublesome.  Some countries consider you a veteran if you served in the armed forces during the time of the war.  Others, only if you saw combat.  Then add the problem of partisans and irregular combatants and it becomes impossible to verify the contents.  It's not that these articles are unimportant or couldn't be verified by a scholar with enough time and resources, but that they are better answered somewhere outside of Wikipedia.  Rossami 14:42, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * By the way, I am uncomfortable with the votes to "keep if we filter the list to 'notable' veterans" because of the difficulty defining who is 'notable' enough to be included. We still argue over whether individual 9/11 victims are 'notable' enough to have their own articles and we allow all victims to be listed in the 9/11 article. I'd rather not get into the same arguments here. Rossami
 * Keep, possibly reworded as "Notable . . ". Inclusion in such a list is by the same criteria as inclusion in the Wikipedia itself, and these would provide a useful reference and cross-reference.  Jgm 21:29, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, with the titles amended to "Prominent", "Notable", or "Famous" MK 05:19, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I have indicated on the pages that only people who already have biographical articles on Wikipedia will be listed, and only if their biographies indicate that they are indeed veterans of a particular conflict. If they don't fit that criteria, I will take their name off the list. If someone is a veteran but their biography does notmention this, then their article needs to be corrected first before being added to the list.I don't want a list of dead links and uncorroborated persons. While I am not going to decide which veterans are notable or not, I think there is a general consensus respecting which biographical articles rise to the standard of being "encyclopedic". I realise the inclusion of some people may still be open to dispute. For instance does Ronald Reagan's non-combat service in the Army Air Corps during wartime qualify him as a "World War II" veteran? Some people may argue strongly that he either is a World War II veteran or is not World War II veteran Syncrolecyne.
 * Generally, the term "veteran" when applied to a war, means someone who served in the active military as a formal member of the armed forces. That would exclude civilians who did war work, if that was the nature of Reagan's service. Entertainers, even war reporters, are not considered war veterans. -- Cecropia | Talk 03:19, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Reagan was an enlisted member of the service, not a civilian; so that's not an issue. The membership requirements of the VFW, which might be more toward the issue at hand here, are as follows: VFW membership is available to all U.S. service members who have earned an overseas campaign or expeditionary medal and are currently on active duty, in the Reserves or who have been honorably discharged from the U.S. armed forces. The campaign or expeditionary medal might be the deciding factor being sought here. There's also the issue of whether someone killed in action is properly described as a "veteran"; I don't think the page's intent is to omit such individuals. MisfitToys 00:27, May 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * You can't take an expeditionary medal as operative. Service members who did not go overseeas are still veterans. "War veteran" (in the US) is defined as someone who served during certain specified periods of time, whether or not they were overseas. The difference is (among other things) benefits. -- Cecropia | Talk 05:55, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. I've changed the titles to include the word notable. Kingturtle 05:45, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Please RTFM. --Jiang
 * Keep, with use of the world prominent(or something similar). And what FM Jiang! Burgundavia 20:09, May 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * naming conventions. this vote does not have the authority to change existent policy--Jiang 00:11, 14 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Is it feasible to do a bar at the bottom of the pages with WWI/WWII/Vietnam veterans? As is done for OECD, EU, NATO countries etc. There'd be no need for a seperate page. -- EuroTom 21:40, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
 * For WWI and WWII at least, these are kind of redundant with List of people associated with World War I and List of people associated with World War II, aren't they?
 * It would probably be a good idea to keep people who were famous during the wars in the "List of people associated with..." page and have people who served but became famous in another area in the "List of notable ... veterans" page with a "see also" linking the two. Otherwise the veterans page will end up duplicating much of the associated page. MK 05:34, 15 May 2004 (UTC)


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Talk:Music of Texas

West Texas Music Hall of Fame
For the time being, I am removing the following: "The West Texas Music Hall of Fame and Museum is located in Abilene, Texas." Though I found that information on the internet, I have confirmed through its President that a museum building has not yet been contructed. Memorabilia and such items are currently loaned to exhibit at other museums, and at present the items are on loan at the New Braunfels Art & Music Museum in Gruene, Tx until July 2004. When a museum is built, we can add it back.

The Plugz
The Plugz weren't formed in El Paso, but instead in Los Angeles, California. The reference has therefore been removed from this article. jareha 09:55, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Dallas starts post-bands music
The article suggests that Dallas is conservative when it comes to new music. Not so. Dallas has started the first new music since the British music invasion of rock bands in 1964. Dallas has recently started post-bands music - more soulful, less corporate, no electric instruments, wider range of styles, melody is important again, lyrics make sense, different types of venues for concerts, etc. etc. Ex. Box office concerts from the Dallas Inwood Theater on a standard Silvertone guitar by me, Tom Hendricks. It's a very back to basics style of music. And it's the first big change in music in 40 years. Musea 22:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Article removed from Good articles
This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because not comprehensive, badly organized

Rap
I think there should be something about rap and all the hype about the Houston being the rap capitol of the south, there are so many rappers from Texas and there chopped and screwed music. Although this is rock and roll and not rap

Los Lonely Boys
Need to add Los Lonely Boys to either Tejano or perhaps Austin. They are more well known then most of the more obscure bands listed in the Austin section. --ProdigySportsman 00:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Blue October and Bowlling for Soup
Both Blue October and Bowlling for Soup need to be added to Alternative Rock section, which is severely lacking. --ProdigySportsman 00:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Earlobe Van Jensen
Is this serious? Is there an artist by that name, or is it vandalism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Punk Rock
I sort of feel like this section needs to be modified as several of the bands credited as developing in Houston's punk scene are in reality bands that were from Austin's music scene (MDC, The Big Boys). 72.183.108.150 (talk) 22:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

When was this page last updated? it's missing bands like Los Lonely Boys, Thee Armada, Scary Kids Scaring Kids, there more punk/ indie that i can't think of off the top of my head —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.124.157 (talk) 22:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Pat Green
There should be a mention of Pat Green in the article. He's a Native Texan(San Antonio) and is extremely popular with Texas Music fans of all kinds. He's also had several National hits like Wave on Wave, Texas on my mind, Way Back Texas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagle70ss (talk • contribs) 06:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Roger Creager
Oh yeah Roger Creager(Corpus) and Cory Morrow(Houston) should be added as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagle70ss (talk • contribs) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Christopher Martin (Dj Premier)
Why no mention of the Houston born & raised hip-hop legend, DJ Premier? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.77.75 (talk) 01:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Music of Texas


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Nanda Devi

Nanda Devi is the second-highest mountain in India, after Kangchenjunga, and the highest located entirely within the country. (Kangchenjunga is on the border of India and Nepal. ) Nanda Devi is the 23rd-highest peak in the world.

Nanda Devi was considered the highest mountain in the world before computations in 1808 proved Dhaulagiri to be higher. It was also the highest mountain in India until 1975, when Sikkim, an independent kingdom until 1948 and a protectorate of India thereafter, became a state of India. It is located in the Chamoli district of Uttarakhand, between the Rishiganga valley on the west and the Goriganga valley on the east.

The peak, whose name means "Bliss-Giving Goddess", is regarded as the patron goddess of the Garhwal and Kumaon Himalayas. In acknowledgment of its religious significance and for the protection of its fragile ecosystem, the Government of India declared the peak as well as the circle of high mountains surrounding it—the Nanda Devi sanctuary—off-limits to both locals and climbers in 1983. The surrounding Nanda Devi National Park was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1988.

Description and notable features
Nanda Devi is a two-peaked massif, forming a 2 km high ridge, oriented east–west. The western summit is higher than the eastern summit, which is called Nanda Devi East, (locally known as Sunanda Devi). The main summit stands guarded by a barrier ring comprising some of the highest mountains in the Indian Himalayas, twelve of which exceed 6400 m in height, further elevating its sacred status as the daughter of the Himalaya in Indian folklore. The interior of this almost insurmountable ring is known as the Nanda Devi Sanctuary, and is protected as the Nanda Devi National Park. Nanda Devi East lies on the eastern edge of the ring (and of the park), at the border of Chamoli, Pithoragarh and Bageshwar districts in India's Uttarakhand state.

In addition to being the 23rd highest independent peak in the world, Nanda Devi is also notable for its large, steep rise above local terrain. It rises over 3300 m above its immediate southwestern base on the Dakshini Nanda Devi Glacier in about 4.2 km, and its rise above the glaciers to the north is similar. This makes it among the steepest peaks in the world at this scale, closely comparable, for example, to the local profile of K2, in Pakistan. Nanda Devi is also impressive when considering terrain that is a bit further away, as it is surrounded by relatively deep valleys. For example, it rises over 6500 m above the valley of the Goriganga in only 50 km.

On the northern side of the massif lies the Uttari Nanda Devi Glacier, flowing into the Uttari Rishi Glacier. To the southwest, one finds the Dakkhini Nanda Devi Glacier, flowing into the Dakkhini Rishi Glacier. All of these glaciers are located within the Sanctuary, and drain west into the Rishiganga. To the east lies the Pachu Glacier, and to the southeast lie the Nandaghunti and Lawan Glaciers, feeding the Lawan Gad; all of these drain into the Milam Valley. To the south is the Pindari Glacier, draining into the Pindar River. Just to the south of Sunanda Devi, dividing the Lawan Gad drainage from the Dakkhini Nanda Devi Glacier, is Longstaff Col, 5910 m, one of the high passes that guard access to the Nanda Devi Sanctuary. For a list of notable peaks of the Sanctuary and its environs, see Nanda Devi National Park.

Exploration and climbing history
The ascent of Nanda Devi necessitated fifty years of arduous exploration in search of a passage into the Sanctuary. The outlet is the Rishi Gorge, a deep, narrow canyon which is very difficult to traverse safely, and is the biggest hindrance to entering the Sanctuary; any other route involves difficult passes, the lowest of which is 5180 m. Hugh Ruttledge attempted to reach the peak three times in the 1930s and failed each time. In a letter to The Times he wrote that 'Nanda Devi imposes on her votaries an admission test as yet beyond their skill and endurance', adding that gaining entry to the Nanda Devi Sanctuary alone was more difficult than reaching the North Pole. In 1934, the British explorers Eric Shipton and H. W. Tilman, with three Sherpa companions, Angtharkay, Pasang and Kusang, finally discovered a way through the Rishi Gorge into the Sanctuary. When the mountain was later climbed in 1936 by a British-American expedition, it became the highest peak climbed by man until the 1950 ascent of Annapurna, 8091 m. (However, higher non-summit elevations had already been reached by the British on Mount Everest in the 1920s, and it is possible that George Mallory reached Everest's summit in 1924.) It also involved steeper and more sustained terrain than had been previously attempted at such a high altitude. The expedition climbed the south ridge, also known as the Coxcomb Ridge, which leads relatively directly to the main summit. The summit pair were H. W. Tilman and Noel Odell; Charles Houston was to be in place of Tilman, but he contracted severe food poisoning. Noted mountaineer and mountain writer H. Adams Carter was also on the expedition, which was notable for its small scale and lightweight ethic: it included only seven climbers, and used no fixed ropes, nor any Sherpa support above 6200 m. Eric Shipton, who was not involved in the climb itself, called it "the finest mountaineering achievement ever performed in the Himalaya."

After abortive attempts by Indian expeditions in 1957 and 1961, the second ascent of Nanda Devi was accomplished by an Indian team led by N. Kumar in 1964, following the Coxcomb route.

CIA mission
From 1965 to 1968, attempts were made by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), in co-operation with the Intelligence Bureau (IB), to place a nuclear-powered telemetry relay listening device on the summit of Nanda Devi. This device was designed to intercept telemetry signals from missile test launches conducted in the Xinjiang Province, at a time of relative infancy in China's missile program. The expedition retreated due to dangerous weather conditions, leaving the device near the summit of Nanda Devi. They returned the next spring to search for the device, which ended without success. As a result of this activity by the CIA, the Sanctuary was closed to foreign expeditions throughout much of the 1960s. In 1974 the Sanctuary re-opened.

Subsequent climbs
A difficult new route, the northwest buttress, was climbed by a 13-person team in 1976. Three Americans, John Roskelley, Jim States and Louis Reichardt, summited on 1 September. The expedition was co-led by Reichardt, H. Adams Carter (who was on the 1936 climb,) and Willi Unsoeld, who climbed the West Ridge of Everest in 1963. Unsoeld's daughter, Nanda Devi Unsoeld, who was named after the peak, died on this expedition. She had been suffering from "diarrhea and flare-up of an inguinal hernia, which had shown up originally on the second day of the approach march", and had been at 7200 m for nearly five days.

In 1980, the Indian Army Corps of Engineers made an unsuccessful attempt.

This was followed in 1981 by another Indian Army expedition of the Parachute Regiment, which attempted both main and eastern peaks simultaneously. The expedition had placed a memorial to Nanda Devi Unsoeld at the high altitude meadow of Sarson Patal prior to the attempt. The successful attempt lost all its summiteers.

In 1993, a 40-member team of the Indian Army from the Corps of Engineers was given special permission. The aim of the expedition was multifold: to carry out an ecological survey, clean up the refuse left behind by previous expeditions, and scale the summit. The team led by Lt Col V.K. Bhatt included a number of wildlife scientists and ecologists from Wildlife Institute of India, Salim Ali Centre for Ornithology and Natural History, World Wide Fund for Nature and Govind Ballabh Pant Institute for Himalayan Environment and Development amongst others. The expedition carried out a comprehensive ecological survey and removed from the park, by porter and helicopter, over 1,000 kilogrammes of litter. Additionally, five summiteers reached the summit: Amin Naik, Anand Swaroop, G. K. Sharma, Didar Singh and S. P. Bhatt.

Recent history and conservation
After the re-opening of the sanctuary in 1974 to foreign climbers, trekkers and locals, the fragile ecosystem was soon compromised by firewood cutting, littering and grazing. Serious environmental problems were noted as early as 1977, and the sanctuary was closed again in 1983. Currently, Nanda Devi forms the core of the Nanda Devi Biosphere Reserve (which includes Nanda Devi National Park), declared by the Indian government in 1982. In 1988, Nanda Devi National Park was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site, "of outstanding cultural or natural importance to the common heritage of humankind." The entire sanctuary, and hence the main summit (and interior approaches to the nearby peaks), are off-limits to locals and to climbing expeditions, although a one-time exception was made in 1993 for a 40-member team from the Indian Army Corps of Engineers to check the state of recovery and to remove garbage left by prior expeditions. Sunanda Devi remains open from the east side, leading to the standard south ridge route. After a sustained campaign by the local community as reflected in the Nanda Devi Declaration of 2001, the core zone of the Nanda Devi was opened for limited eco-tourism activity in 2003. In 2006, the campaign invited women trekkers from 4 countries during the inaugural trek inside the National Park. As a follow-up, the Campaign for Cultural Survival and Sustainable Livelihoods has now designed an Interpretive Trek to the Nanda Devi National Park. An Interpretation Centre on Bio Cultural Diversity of the Nanda Devi National Park is under development in the village of Lata, the gateway to the Nanda Devi National Park. A maximum number of 500 trekkers are now allowed to enter the core zone until Dharansi between May and October. The trek to Nanda Devi National Park starts from the village of Lata, located 25 kilometres upstream from the town of Joshimath on Niti-Malari highway.

2021 flood
On 7 February 2021 it was reported that a portion of the Nanda Devi glacier broke away, causing the Dhauliganga and the Rishiganga rivers to flood. One dam at the Dhauliganga hydropower project at Reni village was destroyed and another suffered a partial collapse. Initial reports said nine people were dead and 140 missing. Water levels on the Alaknanda also rose.

Books

 * 🇦🇹. (reprinted 1994). The Nanda Devi Affair, Penguin Books India. ISBN 0-14-024045-4.
 * 🇦🇹 (2003). Spies in the Himalayas: Secret Missions and Perilous Climbs, University Press of Kansas. ISBN 0-7006-1223-8.
 * 🇦🇹 (2010). River Deep, Mountain High, The Caravan Magazine.
 * 🇦🇹 (2011) Nude Besides the Lake, Createspace ISBN 978-1463529390
 * 🇦🇹. (2000). Nanda Devi: The Tragic Expedition, The Mountaineers Books. ISBN 0-89886-739-8.
 * 🇦🇹. (1995) Nandadevi – Restoring Glory – New Age International (Wiley Eastern Ltd), New Delhi. ISBN 81-224-0752-8.
 * 🇦🇹 (Reprinted 2000). Nanda Devi:Exploration and Ascent, The Mountaineers Books. ISBN 0-89886-721-5.
 * 🇦🇹 (1979) Himalayan Handbook, (private pub., Calcutta).
 * 🇦🇹. (2006) An Eye at the Top of the World: The Terrifying Legacy of the Cold War's Most Daring C.I.A. Operation, Thunder's Mouth Press. ISBN 1-56025-845-4.
 * 🇦🇹 (2004) Nanda Devi: A Journey to the Last Sanctuary, Weidenfeld & Nicolson ISBN 0-297-60753-7
 * Tilman, H. W., The Ascent of Nanda Devi, Cambridge University Press. 1937.

title: Nanda Devi


text:
Talk:Nanda Devi

Highest Mountain in India
Isn't Kanchenjunga the highest mountain in India ??? Dabean 23:51, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Seconded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qp10qp (talk • contribs)

 * Yes. I have corrected the article. That sentence was based on the Peakware page which states its the highest, which is of course, incorrect. I blindly accepted it as fact, given the usual high reliability of facts from that site. RedWolf 20:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Merge and major overhaul
I did the proposed merge from Nanda Devi East, and while I was at it I did a major overhaul of the article. Comments welcome. -- Spireguy 21:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

About the Highest peak of India
Nanda Devi is the Highest peak in India that is located within geographical boundaries,not touching any other country.Comments please on this addition.Tribhuwan 14:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Definitely a worthwhile addition; I tightened it up a bit. -- Spireguy 19:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Uttarakhand workgroup Addition
Note: WP India Project Banner with Uttarakhand workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Uttarakhand or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate, please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article --  TinuCherian  (Wanna Talk?) - 13:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Local Myth and Folklore
There are several mentions of "local myth and folklore" (ie "...name means Bliss-Giving Goddess..."; "...regarded as the patron-goddess of..."; "...twin peaks of the goddess Nanda..."; "...sacred status as the daughter of the Himalaya..."). It will be good if these can be attested through references (and further elaborated) - otherwise they should be removed as "unsupported".--The Lesser Merlin (talk) 10:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I cited the "Bliss-Giving Goddess". -- Spireguy (talk) 19:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

It says "regarded as the patron-goddess of the Uttarakhand Himalaya" Regarded by whom? And who says so? It further says "the daughter of the Himalaya in Indian myth and folklore" Which myths? Whose folklore (there are many different folklores in India)? And who says so anyway? And so on (I don't want to list them all, but see my earlier comment). This article remains littered with assertions (many of which could be of real significance) that are not sourced. The Lesser Merlin (talk) 13:30, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The coordinates need the following fixes:

The current Wikipedia location coordinates for Nanda Devi do not point to that mountain. The correct location is 30.375663, 79.970849 (+30° 22' 32.39", +79° 58' 15.06"). Can someone fix this please? I don't know how to.

 * Done, but could you please supply a source for the above? Are they really known to 1/100" precision? Viewfinder (talk) 21:32, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Nanda Devi
Surely, Everest is the highest in India, with K2 the second highest! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nugent1234 (talk • contribs) 11:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. Everest is split between Tibet and Nepal. No where near India. Check a map. 12.186.227.68 (talk) 04:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

British Expedition with Americans, Stuart Jones Jr. and Gil Harder made it to the summit in the summer of 1977!
British Expedition with Americans, Stuart Jones Jr. and Gil Harder, made it to the Nanda Devi summit in the summer, 1977 2600:8802:C00:2F7:51E5:EA5E:3F3E:FCC6 (talk) 07:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nanda Devi


text:
User talk:Jr55407

Hello "Jr55407" and welcome to Wikipedia. A few tips for you:

 * Peruse Welcome, newcomers and associated pages, such as
 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * You can experiment in the Sandbox.
 * Sign talk page entries with ~, which is automatically converted to a name and date.
 * If you have any questions, see Help, or you can a question to the village pump.
 * I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian -- Infrogmation 03:44, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jr55407


text:
User talk:Mariobro

Stop posting that nonsense picture to that nonsense article. You don't really think the article is going to actually stick around, do you? RickK 03:45, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mariobro


text:
Five Nations

Five Nations may refer to:

Art, entertainment, and media

 * Five Nations (accessory), a book about the fictional Eberron location
 * Five Nations of the Eberron Campaign Setting, a fictional location
 * The Five Nations, a 1903 poetry collection by Rudyard Kipling (1865–1936)
 * Five Nations, a real-time strategy video game published by Silver Forge Studios

Organizations

 * The original five nations of the Iroquois Confederacy, a union of Native Americans
 * Five Civilized Tribes
 * Five Nations Golf Club, a golf course in Belgium

Rugby

 * Asian Five Nations, a rugby tournament replaced by Asia Rugby Championship
 * Pacific Five Nations, a rugby tournament replaced by World Rugby Pacific Nations Cup
 * Five Nations Championship, a UK/Europe rugby tournament replaced by Six Nations Championship

title: Five Nations


text:
Talk:Rare disease

It
It is hard to say what a rare disease is, and this is a problem with the pending deletion of the related List of Rare Diseases. Take Behçet's disease for example. In the United States only 15,000-20,000 people have been identified with it. The diagnosis of the disease is much lower as many symptoms (eye problems, joint problems, ulcers) have to be pieced together before the thing is found, and it takes many years to develop. It has a higher incidence rate in parts of Asia/Europe too. Sabar 09:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Are they putting rare diseases and orphan diseases together for the sake of this article? 01:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC) OhioGirl42986 (talk) 01:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

--

Something is wrong with the definition: "An orphan or rare disease is generally considered to have a prevalence of less than 5% affected individuals in the society." A disease that affects even 1% of the people in a population is a very common disease, likely to be dealt with every week by a general practitioner. But what does "less than 5% affected individuals in the society" mean? I've never heard a formal definition, but most physicians would reserve the term rare for something seen once or twice or less in an average career of general practice. A disease like that would probably have a prevalence of 1 in 100,000 individuals but that definition still includes thousands of reported diseases. Alteripse 03:54, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

 * From what I have been reading orphan diseases are diseases that have maybe one or two patients in the world that have it and the reason they are considered orphan is because it would not pay a drug company to try and get drug research money for a rare disease with one or two patients. 01:23, 25 May 2022 (UTC) OhioGirl42986 (talk) 01:23, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Does the term refer to a particlar region or globally? "Certain infectious diseases" could be common in one country but rare in the country to which the traveller returns to - and eg Sickle Cell Anaemia. Jackiespeel 18:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

 * As an epidemiologist, incidence is preferable to prevalence since prevalence is comprised of both incidence and survival - patients who survive longer with a given disease will be part of a prevalence that is higher than for a disease which is either swiftly fatal or readily cured, whether by medicine or by the person's immune system. Further, our concern about rare diseases apparently varies according to whom is affected. Rhabdomyosarcoma is a very rare cancer, but because it affects children, there's quite a bit of research on it. --Dan (talk) 16:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * While the logic of your argument is undeniable, the fact is that all the sources concern themselves with prevalence. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

NIH' Office of Rare Diseases
I've created a template to simplify markup for this external link to the NIH's Office of Rare Diseases (ORD) - see Template:RareDiseases, which takes as parameters the Disease ID Number and optionally also alternative text (i.e. the Disease's name) to display. David Ruben Talk 13:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Definition
The two sentences in the lead each seem to give a different, but possibly overlapping definition. Can we combine these into one definition? Are all conditions defined as "rare diseases" necessarily life-threatening or chronically debilitating, as the second sentence suggests? What is meant by "special combined efforts" and why are they a corollary of low prevelance? As leads go, this one has just fallen short of the "written in a clear, accessible style" test for this layman. -- Timberframe (talk) 14:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your comments. The first sentence is the usual rule of thumb.  (A variant [older] on that rule is that a general practice physician would only see one such case in his/her entire career.)
 * The second is a specialized definition for a particular program. There are other such specialized definitions, and it might be better to move it to a section dealing with the variety of definitions.  The "special combined efforts" is the bureaucratic equivalent of the last section in any standard journal article, and its plain English meaning is "Please give my department more money".  WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I feel that I've had it explained to me now, but haven't grasped what was said. The first bit makes sense to this simpleton, and perhaps that's where we need to start and finish the lead in order to make it comprehensible to a wide readership. We could then go on to how the concept applies to various specialised circumstances. Writing the latter is way beyond me but perhaps I could serve you specialists as a lay proof reader. -- Timberframe (talk) 22:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I did a little work on it today; please let me know what you think.
 * As for the first sentence, it's a remarkably common definition (and really the only one, before the US federal law was passed in 1983), but I'm not sure where to find proof of that. If you have any sourcing ideas, please feel free to share them.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Dead weblink and redundance
The weblink nr.6 (the one which should lead to this certein drug act) is dead. Besides I noticed that both the section 'prevalance' and 'characteristics' have a quiet similar sentence speaking about the fact that some diseases are only rare among children... Otherwise a well-comprehended article! --85.176.141.182 (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Orhpan disease = Rare disease?
Currently, Multiple Sclerosis affects between 2 and 150 per 100,000 according to its Wikipedia article. However, there's always a shortage of funds for research and the most effective treatement for it, an interferon drug named Avonex, costs my sister around $1600-$2000 per month, for one injection per week. (Thank God for medical insurance and Medicare!) By the standards of this article, it's not quite a rare disease, but it's often referred to as an orphan disease because very few people are aware enough of the issue to help, and most charities simply ignore it. This might look like I'm trying to guilt people into donating, but I'm not. I'm only suggesting that diseases that are finding it hard to raise funds simply because the public either isn't aware of it or don't understand how badly they need money shouldn't be lumped in with a set of otherwise unrelated disorders that aren't being studied much only because they really are rare. I'm not in a position, right now, to create a new page because I don't know enough about the subject to do the job the way it needs to be done, so I'm tossing this out in the hope that somebody who does will be inspired to do what I think need doing.JDZeff (talk) 00:51, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed "orphan disease" as synonym to "rare disease" - they are not the same. MS is not a rare disease (it is not rare) but is an orphan disease (there is no approved treatment). Hope this clarifies. — kashmiri  TALK  08:47, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that you cleared up a lot for me! OhioGirl42986 (talk) 01:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Orphan drug movement
First appearing in 2009, under the section heading Relationship to orphan diseases, is the following statement:
 * The orphan drug movement was begun in the United States.

"Orphan drug movement" as a phrase does not appear in the text of this above reference. While user:WhatamIdoing may have known at the time the sentence was inserted (July 2009) what this means (and may still know), I sure do not. I wonder if it is even possible to write an article about the orphan drug movement, so entangled are orphan drugs with the hugely monied pharmaceutical industry and the globally complicated funding of individual and social health care. Beyond identifying a specific piece of U. S. legislation, I furthermore doubt that the broad and vague statement about the "movement" originating in the US will hold up to the test of time.

GeeBee60 (talk) 13:05, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * It might be possible to write an article about the orphan drug movement, but IMO it is more pointful to include the history of that movement in related articles, such as orphan drug and this one.
 * A "movement" – a political movement, in this case – is a common word used to communicate concisely what the source says: That "This process, started in the United States" "show[s] the necessity to evaluate exactly whole rare diseases’ impact on population and health services: it constitutes, in fact, the multiplying factor of all available actions and facilitation in rare diseases management" and obtained the "research and welfare systems" needed by affected patients and their families.
 * That said, that source (the website for a regional rare disease organization), though technically reliable, may not be the best that we can do. That the political pressure to do something about people dying from rare diseases first manifested in the US is not a controversial claim, and it would likely be very easy to replace the source with a more recent and more authoritative-sounding one, such as this paper, which says "The “orphan drug-movement” is believed to have been initiated only recently with the Orphan Drug Act of 1983 in the United States of America".  WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * It seems misguided to date (create) an "orphan drug movement" based on a piece of legislation, any more than one would date the beginning of the abolition movement with the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 (Great Britain) or women's suffrage movement with the passage of the 19th Amendment (US). While occasionally legislation arises directly from a legislator, usually there are years of behind-the-scenes lobbying before a legislator even considers pushing forth any proposal.  Because this is an "Act", legislation may have been absent but there would have still have been extended behind-the-scenes lobbying, scrambling, and preliminary documentation within and outside of the enacting department / agency.
 * When it comes to drugs and healthcare, in almost all countries there is some government oversight; where health care is publicly managed and orphan diseases covered, there might be no movement because there was no need. Thus, I remain skeptical that 1983 marks the beginning of this "orphan drug movement". GeeBee60 (talk) 19:07, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter whether we think that's reasonable. Firstly, the sentence in question says nothing about the movement having initiated in exactly 1983, and excluding the efforts that directly led to this particular piece of legislation.  Secondly, your personal skepticism is not a reliable source.  Naturally, if you can find sources that say that it did not originate in the US, then please provide them; we could then adjust the article to say that most sources say that it began in the US, but some sources claim that it began in ancient Rome, or wherever else they care to name.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:02, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, the claim is not properly sourced. The Orphanet article is an OR article, also it does not quote sources for the claim, so it should not form a basis for encyclopaedic information. The other source (Italian website) does not mention any such "movement" at all. Besides it is also badly outdated, likely having been created in early 2000s. I will go BOLD and remove that statement – feel free to restore once a RS is identified. — kashmīrī  TALK  16:35, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, personal skepticism is not a " reliable source". But it very much is a motivation for research. My disagreement is not simply with the placement of this "movement" in time and space, but with the declaration that there is a movement at all. Here the burden falls not on the skeptic but on the promulgator. While there are a multitude of orphan drugs (and diseases), the contention that a movement exists lacks clear evidence. I support kashmīrī 's decision to delete the passage. GeeBee60 (talk) 22:44, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Inconsistency between this page and ribose-5-phosphate isomerase deficiency
This page states that ribose-5-phosphate isomerase deficiency is the rarest disease and links to its page. The page for ribose-5-phosphate isomerase deficiency says it is the second rarest disease and calls out the Fields Condition, which does not have a Wikipedia page. This page should be updated if the Fields condition is in fact rarer. 100.2.228.140 (talk) 03:07, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Celebration of Rare Disease Day - On which date?
The article dosen't mention on what day we celebrate the Rare Disease Day which is 28th of february for non-leap years and 29th of february for leap years. Or prehaps i am blind and i didn't bother to check out? Anyways, the date is chosen to symbolize the rarity of these diseases, as the last day of February is also the rarest day of the year in non-leap years.

For more info can be found on https://www.rarediseaseday.org/ Luigi Cotocea (talk) 15:07, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

 * @Luigi Cotocea It does say " the last day of February", but perhaps that's a bit subtle! I'll see what I can do to improve it.... (Having already put a banner up on my personal FB page today!) Pam  D  15:12, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * And I've made a similar clarification at Rare Disease Day. Pam  D  15:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rare disease


text: Talk:Pumori

title: Talk:Pumori


text:
User talk:Poukd

Stop adding your POV to the War on Terrorism article. RickK 03:57, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

Stop removing my excellent additions which balance the highly controversial term "war on terrorism"!

title: User talk:Poukd


text:
Talk:List of rivers of New Zealand

Should the heading also contain "Australia"?
I'd say yes because it contains the Snowy and Yarra (and maybe others). Alternative is to remove the Oz rivers. Moriori 03:59, May 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * No. It is a list of NZ rivers from linz.govt.nz .  The Snowy and Yarra are rivers in NZ.   Will change links to point to an NZ entry. Alan Liefting

Disambiguation format
I noticed that some of the rivers here are being disambiguated with the form "River Name, New Zealand". I believe the general convention for disambiguation is to use the form "River Name (New Zealand)". The comma convention I believe was introduced for U.S. cities and from there spread to cities in some other countries and occasionally to other types of articles. I just happened to come upon one today, Rocky River, New Zealand, when I noticed the Rocky River disambiguation page was updated. I actually don't care that much if you all decide to do New Zealand rivers differently. But I do strongly encourage you to consider using the parenthetical form--it is MUCH easier to type links with it because you can use the pipe trick with to eliminate the parentheses in the linked text, while with the comma notation you have no choice except to retype the name preceding the comma. older ≠ wiser 22:30, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. That's a bit surprising, but still... There are reasons against it, mind you. With most articles, the parenthesis seems to disambiguate the type of an object rather than its location, so by extension "Rocky River, New Zealand" would mean the Rocky River in New Zealand whereas "Rocky River (New Zealand)" means (and I know this example makes little sense) A New Zealand called Rocky River, in the same way that "Rocky River (band)" would mean a musical group called Rocky River.

 * This may seem a quibblingly small point, but it could make a difference. Say there was a type of porcelain called Yangtze River Chinaware. "Yangtze River (China)" would refer to this ceramic, whereas "Yangtze River, China" would mean the river. if there were also a city of that name, it would be "Yangtze River, China (city)".

 * In any case, a lot of NZ places - including a considerable number of rivers - are done in this format, and Rocky River is now the only one with parentheses. So unless you feel like adding a couple of hundred redirect pages... Grutness 09:28, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * No, like I said, I really don't care if you do NZ rivers differently. Though I quite disagree with you about the use of parenthetical disambiguation. I am not aware of any Wikipedia convention that says the parenthesis should indicate type rather than location. Location is commonly used as a disambiguation phrase, and it works very well in the U.S. where there are very often multiple towns with the same name as multiple geographic features. It may not be as applicable in NZ. older ≠ wiser 13:28, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * The parentheses disambiguation for rivers in North America is well-established and accepted by the major contributors in this area, having been worked out through long discussion on WikiProject Rivers . The primary reason for this is the comma in North American places, at least, is reserved for communities . In many cases, there are communities that are identical in name to rivers, such as Hood River, Oregon which is a town on the Hood River. Thus the format makes it clear as to the type of geographic reference. Just take a look at Grand River for another really good example: simultaneous disambiguation of multiple towns and multiple rivers. Also another advantage of the parentheses is that in many cases with rivers, it is not possible (or perhaps not preferable) to use only a single disambiguting reference, as in the case of rivers which flow along borders. For example, St. Croix River (Maine-New Brunswick) (compare St. Croix River (Wisconsin-Minnesota)), would be much clumsier with a comma. Note that rivers in Great Britain and Ireland often have the same name as U.S. and Canadian rivers, but by convention are called River XXXX instead of the XXX River (i.e. compare Thames River with River Thames) and thus no explicit disambiguation is needed, even when the names are otherwise identical.  However, disambiguation of rivers within the United Kingdom is done by commas, and I am not going to intervene about that either. Like I said, the convention involving North American rivers was all worked out carefully over time. As to New Zealand, I personally would have preferred for it to follow the convention of North American rivers (parentheses), but I am not an active contributor or editor for those articles. I am not being a North Americanist here, but simply referring to the fact that the large majority of river articles which have been created in Wikipedia up until now have been ones in North America, and conventions, once established are best followed to avoid confusion. I agree with User:Bkonrad in above: I am aware of no policy in Wikipedia stating that parentheses disambiguate by type and not location. -- Decumanus 19:56, 2004 Nov 4 (UTC)

 * I don't know of a hard-and-fast rule in Wikipedia, either, although I did make an observation based on the articles I'd seen. I do know of one in geographical nomenclature, though, which is the one that has been used for New Zealand places. Personally, I think "St. Croix River (Wisconsin-Minnesota)" is considerably clumsier than "St. Croix River, Wisconsin-Minnesota" - it's also a longer name. How would you write the name of the south branch of such a river? "St. Croix River (South branch) (Wisconsin-Minnesota)"? Messy, messy, messy. New Zealand articles are simply named as the places themselves are named, according to recognised geographic standards: "Name, location" and if necessary "Name, location (type)". As to British names, that's nothing to do with Wikipedia - rivers are always known in Britain with the word "River" first. If you wish to carry on doing American places according to your own system, that's perfectly fine, but it's not the system that is normally practiced. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 06:44, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * To answer your question: the example you cited would be South Branch St. Croix River (Wisconsin-Minnesota), according to the conventions used (like this). But I am aware of no such case of a branch of river needing a double-state disambiguation. We will have to agree to disagree on this. -- Decumanus 16:38, 2004 Dec 28 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Since there are about (at a guesstimate) 2000 New Zealand places that all use this system I'd rather not have to change them. As long as there's internal consistency within each country it shouldn't really be a problem. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 02:09, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Unnamed NZ rivers. There are several rivers that do not appear on the list, because they were not named River - they are named Burn. Three large rivers in terms of volume that have this name form, are the Rock Burn, Route Burn, and Beans Burn. These all flow into the Dart River, at the head of Lake Wakatipu. These were all named by Surveyor J McKerrow, who came from Scotland - named in the 1860s. Another similar group of Burn names lie on the north of the Taieri River - too many to mention here, and this group were named by McKerrow's senior Surveyor, J T Thompson. By and large these are not as large as the first group above. [But pleased that Water of Leith made the list. Suma rongi (talk) 05:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

The Greenstone digital library collections
"Greenstone is a suite of software for building and distributing digital library collections. It provides a new way of organizing information and publishing it on the Internet or on CD-ROM. Greenstone is produced by the New Zealand Digital Library Project at the University of Waikato, and developed and distributed in cooperation with UNESCO and the Human Info NGO. It is open-source, multilingual software, issued under the terms of the GNU General Public License. Read the Greenstone Factsheet for more information." e.g. Reservoir Creek`STRM`HK`-42.76`171.24 Reservoir Creek`STRM`NN`-41.36`173.20 Response Torrent`STRM`HK`-44.36`168.62 Restless Torrent`STRM`HK`-44.04`169.29 Retaruke River`STRM`WN`-39.07`175.20 Retaruke River`STRM`WN`-39.11`175.07 Retaruke River`STRM`WN`-39.11`175.10 Retaruke River`STRM`WN`-39.14`175.26 Retaruke River`STRM`WN`-39.22`175.30 Retford Stream`STRM`IN`-45.20`167.88 Retreat Creek`STRM`CH`-42.95`172.30 Retreat Creek`STRM`DN`-44.34`168.39 Retreat Rivulet`STRM`HK`-43.99`169.07 Retreat Stream`STRM`CH`-42.54`172.56 Retreat Stream`STRM`CH`-43.09`172.30 Revell Stream`STRM`CH`-43.12`171.23 Rewa Rewa Stream`STRM`WN`-40.84`176.03
 * https://trac.greenstone.org/export/6296/trunk/gsdl3/web/sites/localsite/collect/nzmaps/index/assoc/place_types/strm.txt.

NevilleDNZ (talk) 07:38, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Joe River and Joes River links incorrect
Can I just point out that the links for Joe River and Joes River (the latter of which I cannot find reference to in the LINZ Gazetteer - are these rivers one and the same?) point to entries in Wikipedia for rivers that are not in New Zealand.

GGBiscuit (talk) 10:18, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've disambiguated them. They appear in both my New Zealand atlases - Reed New Zealand Atlas and The Geographic Atlas of New Zealand. Joe River flows from Joe Glacier through Mount Aspiring National Park and into Arawhata River. Joes River flows through the Fiordland National Park, alongside the Milford Track and into Milford Sound. I have no idea if they are named for the same "Joe" but as they're both in the Fiordland/Otago area, it's possible.- gadfium 21:50, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

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title: Talk:List of rivers of New Zealand


text:
User:AlienGirl501

The basics
My name is Amy, and I live in Canada. Ladysmith, British Columbia to be more precise. I was born January 20, 1991, 13 years old, and am currently of the female variety.

Contact Information
MSN- calicocat501@hotmail.com Jabber- AlienGirl@jabber.org eMail- calicocat501@hotmail.com

Interests
I like to read, Harry Potter, A Series of Unfortunate Events and Artemis Fowl are among my favourites.

Most of my online time is spent on eCritters, a virtual pet site.

I have an obsession with TV on DVD. I love watching my favourite shows over, and over, and over again.

My wikipedian activity
I got a 38 on the Wikipediholic test. I expect it to inevitably increase soon.

Most of what I edit/start is either on various actors or actresses, or television shows. I hope to move out of this pattern soon.

Biggest edits
I've created stubs for:
 * Zach Galifianakis
 * A. J. Cook
 * Katie Finneran

And I've added something significant to:

 * Tru Calling-- Cast List
 * John Schneider-- Background information, other roles.
 * Charisma Carpenter-- Guest appearances, background information.

Friends

 * Eurleif-- I know from eCritters, and one of the main people who caused me to look at Wikipedia.

title: User:AlienGirl501


text: User talk:69.196.28.153

title: User talk:69.196.28.153


text:
Cello Concerto (Schumann)

The Cello Concerto in A minor, Op. 129, by Robert Schumann was completed in a period of only two weeks, between 10 October and 24 October 1850, shortly after Schumann became the music director at Düsseldorf.

The concerto was never played in Schumann's lifetime. It was premiered on 23 April 1860, four years after his death, in Oldenburg, with Ludwig Ebert as soloist.

The length of a typical performance is about 25 minutes.

Instrumentation
The work is scored for solo cello, two flutes, two oboes, two clarinets, two bassoons, two horns, two trumpets, timpani, and strings.

Structure
Written late in his short life, the concerto is considered one of Schumann's more enigmatic works due to its structure, the length of the exposition, and the transcendental quality of the opening as well as the intense lyricism of the second movement. On the autograph score, Schumann gave the title Konzertstück (concert piece) rather than Konzert (concerto), which suggested he intended to depart from the traditional conventions of a concerto from the beginning.

Consistent with many of Schumann's other works, the concerto utilizes both fully realized and fragmentary thematic material introduced in the first movement, material which is then quoted and developed throughout. Together with the concerto's relatively short, linked movements, the concerto is thus very unified both in material and in character, although the work's emotional scope is wide. Schumann's use of the same themes in different contexts and moods lends the concerto a strong sense of character development and an extended emotional arc, from its opening measures vacillating between deeply meditative and agitated to the brilliant, affirmative conclusion.

The piece is in three movements: 1. Nicht zu schnell (A minor – A major)
 * The first movement of the concerto begins with a very short orchestral introduction followed by the presentation of the main theme by the soloist, which in turn is followed by a short tutti that leads into additional melodic material that is both new and related to what has preceded it. In this way, the character of the work is one of improvisation and fantasy, although much of the recapitulation follows the exposition fairly closely.
 * Orchesterwerke Romantik Themen.pdf

2. Langsam (F major)
 * In the brief, intensely melodic second movement, the soloist occasionally uses double stops. It also features a descending fifth, a gesture used throughout the piece as a signal and homage to his wife, Clara Schumann – this motive was used to the same end in his first piano sonata. Also, the soloist has a duet with the principal cellist, a very unusual texture; some have suggested this could be interpreted as a conversation between Clara and the composer while a more pragmatic explanation is that Schumann extends the normal harmonic, dynamic, and expressive range of the solo cello by adding the additional accompanying material thus resulting in the impression of a larger, more fully realized solo instrument.
 * Orchesterwerke Romantik Themen.pdf

3. Sehr lebhaft (A minor – A major)
 * The third movement is a lighter, yet resolute sonata-form movement, and here Schumann utilizes the timpani for the first time in the work, adding to the main theme's march-like character. At the end of the movement, there is an accompanied cadenza, something unprecedented in Schumann's day; this cadenza leads into the final coda in which Schumann returns to A-major. During the twentieth century and before, some cellists have chosen instead to include their own unaccompanied cadenza (e.g. Pau Casals, Emanuel Feuermann, etc.), although there is no indication that Schumann wished for one.
 * Orchesterwerke Romantik Themen.pdf

Schumann famously abhorred applause between movements. As a result, there are no breaks between any of the movements in the concerto. As for the concerto's virtuosity, Schumann earlier in his life declared "I cannot write a concerto for the virtuoso; I must think of something else." In the cello concerto, while exploiting the instrument to the fullest, the writing for the soloist generally avoids virtuosic display prominent in many concertos of the time.

Reception
Although the cello concerto is now performed with some regularity, the work spent many decades in obscurity, virtually unknown. Schumann was unable to secure a premiere of the work and initial reactions to his score were mostly very negative. This may have been in part due to the work's unusual structure as well as the personal, inward nature of the music and the lack of passages written to display the technical skill of the cello soloist. While criticism of the work persists, some cellists place the Schumann concerto alongside the cello concertos of Dvořák and Elgar in a group of great Romantic works for their instrument.

Arrangements
Schumann created a version for violin and orchestra for Joseph Joachim to play. Dmitri Shostakovich re-orchestrated the cello concerto in 1963 as his opus 125.

20th century

 * 1930: Gregor Piatigorsky, London Philharmonic Orchestra, John Barbirolli, Naxos, Warner
 * 1942: Tibor de Machula, Berlin Philharmonic, Wilhelm Furtwängler, Deutsche Grammophon
 * 1950: Gaspar Cassadó, Radio-Sinfonieorchester Stuttgart, Hans Müller-Kray
 * 1953: Pablo Casals, The Prades Festival Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy, Sony
 * 1953: Maurice Gendron, Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Ernest Ansermet
 * 1953: Daniil Shafran, Russian State Symphony Orchestra, Kirill Kondrashin
 * 1955: Paul Tortelier, MDR Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra, Hermann Abendroth, Berlin Classics - September 5, 1955
 * 1960: Pierre Fournier, Philharmonia Orchestra, Sir Malcolm Sargent, EMI
 * 1960: Zara Nelsova, Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin, Georg Ludwig Jochum, Audite
 * 1960: Mstislav Rostropovich, Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra, Gennady Rozhdestvensky, Deutsche Grammophon - September 12, 1960
 * 1961: Leonard Rose, New York Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein, Columbia
 * 1962: Vladimir Orloff, Bucharest Symphony Orchestra, Mircea Cristescu
 * 1962: János Starker, London Symphony Orchestra, Stanisław Skrowaczewski, Decca - July 10, 1962
 * 1964: André Navarra, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Karel Ančerl, Epic Records
 * 1968: Jacqueline du Pré, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Daniel Barenboim, Warner - May 11, 1968
 * 1976: Mstislav Rostropovich, Orchestre National de France,  Leonard Bernstein, EMI (Grammy Award nomination)
 * 1981: Lynn Harrell, The Cleveland Orchestra, Sir Neville Marriner, Decca
 * 1986: Mischa Maisky, Vienna Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein, Deutsche Grammophon
 * 1988: Heinrich Schiff, Berlin Philharmonic, Bernard Haitink, Philips
 * 1988: Yo-Yo Ma, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, Colin Davis, Sony
 * 1991: Natalia Gutman, London Philharmonic, Kurt Masur, EMI
 * 1996: Steven Isserlis, Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen, Christoph Eschenbach - June 15, 1996
 * 1997: Mischa Maisky, Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, Deutsche Grammophon - March 26, 1997

21st century

 * 2002: Jan Vogler, Münchener Kammerorchester, Christoph Poppen, Berlin Classics
 * 2005: Truls Mørk, Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France, Paavo Jarvi, Erato
 * 2006: Alban Gerhardt, Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin, Hannu Lintu, Hyperion
 * 2006: Natalia Gutman, Mahler Chamber Orchestra, Claudio Abbado, Deutsche Grammophon
 * 2008: Raphael Wallfisch, Pforzheim Chamber Orchestra, Niklas Willén, Nimbus Records
 * 2009: Daniel Müller-Schott, NDR Symphony Orchestra, Christoph Eschenbach, Naxos
 * 2016: Jean-Guihen Queyras, Freiburger Barockorchester, Pablo Heras-Casado, Harmonia Mundi
 * 2018: Gautier Capuçon, Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Bernard Haitink, Erato
 * 2018: Sol Gabetta, Kammerorchester Basel, Giovanni Antonini, Sony Classical (Instrumentalist of the Year, Opus Klassik Awards 2019)
 * 2020: Raphaela Gromes, Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra, Nicholas Carter, Sony
 * 2024: Christian-Pierre La Marca, Philharmonia Orchestra, Raphaël Merlin, Naïve Records - July 19, 2024

title: Cello Concerto (Schumann)


text:
Kala Patthar

Kala Patthar (काला पत्थर) is a notable landmark located on the south ridge of Pumori in the Nepali Himalayas above Gorakshep. Although not a proper mountain, with a prominence of only 10 m, the ascent of Kala Patthar is very popular with trekkers in the region of Mount Everest since it provides the most accessible closeup view of Everest. Due to the structure of the Everest Massif, its high summit is blocked by Nuptse from much of the surrounding region.

The views of Everest, Nuptse and Changtse are spectacular from Kala Patthar and there are glimpses of the northern flank and summit of Lhotse. The world's highest webcam, Mount Everest webcam, was located here. Kala Patthar is considered the highest altitude most will reach without a climbing permit, which must be obtained in Kathmandu, at the Nepal Mountaineering Association.

Description
The ascent of Kala Patthar begins at Gorakshep (5164 m), the original base camp for Mt. Everest. After a brief dip to an ancient lake bed (which now contains a small lake and a helipad), the ascent makes its way up a series of steep switchbacks before levelling off somewhat as it traverses to the eastern side of the mountain. The trail then becomes steep once again until it reaches the wind-swept summit ridge. From there, a five- to ten-minute scramble over boulders takes one to the top, which is marked with prayer flags. There is also a geocaching trackable named Kala Pattar Yeti attached near the summit. Its trackable code is GS9EBG. The full ascent usually takes between 1.5 and 2 hours. If the attempt is made starting from Lobuche, an additional two to three hours (one way) is required.

The elevation is commonly listed as 5545 - 5550 m. One source lists the height as 5,600 meters/18,373 feet. Portland State University Assistant Professor Dr. Luis A. Ruedas took a Garmin eMap GPS unit to the summit on 6 December 2006. These units have the capability to average a series of individual satellite readings, making them more accurate than single reading machines. Averaging 48 readings at 0625h Nepal local time, temperature −20 °C, the GPS recorded the location of the summit as 27°59.750'N, 86°49.705'E (datum: WGS84), and elevation as 5643 m. Even accounting for the fact that the summit may have approximately one meter of stones added as a celebratory cairn, this is a significant discrepancy with previously recorded elevations. The same unit was consistent with respect to previously recorded elevations for Gorak Shep and Everest Base Camp. In October 2008, a GPS with WAAS recorded the summit at 27°59.751'N, 86°49.705'E (datum: WGS84) with an elevation of 5644.5 m, confirming the 2006 data.

It is possible that since Kala Patthar is merely a minor summit on a ridge leading to Pumori, different people may have measured different summits. There is a minor summit along this ridge near 27°59.51'N, 86°49.62'E with an elevation of approximately 5545 m. The summit traditionally referred to as Kala Patthar is, however, completely festooned with prayer flags, making it quite readily recognizable. It is that summit that was recorded as 5643 m. It is quite clear that the point trekkers climb to is a local maxima on the Pumori ridge, not the summit of Kala Patthar proper. This point is clearly higher than the summit of Kala Patthar, but the name has remained in popular use.

Climate change
In December 2009, Madhav Kumar Nepal and the Nepali Cabinet held a short cabinet meeting at the base of Kala Patthar as a response to climate change.

title: Kala Patthar


text:
Talk:Kala Patthar

Both the text and the attached photograph refer to "Pumori".

Technically the name "Pumori" is incorrect.

In Nepali, "ri" = "mountain".

Thus the correct name is "Pumo Ri".

For example, Kala Pattar's equivalent "hill" just a few miles west in the Gokyo Valley is "Gokyo Ri", and not "Gokyori."

It's not a big deal since "Pumori" is in fact used colloquially 99 percent of the time, despite it being incorrect.

I've also noted this on the talk page for the gallery kalapattar.jpg.

Geeyore 18:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm almost certain that the last sentence is incorrect. I climbed to the top of Kala Pattar in September. Very steep, rocky, no spot for the Nepali cabinet members to be sitting around as in the photos. I think they were in the flat sandy lake bed (the heli landing area) or another flat place outside the trekking lodges at Gorek Shep. The altitude in the press report (17K+) is accurate. I'll edit it unless someone else does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtamad (talk • contribs) 18:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I have climbed "Kala Pattar" four times. There is some confusion as what the name refers to. There is a clear "Black Hill" with a low summit at the end of the ridge line, which comes down from Pumori. This is the real Kala Pattar. The place where all trekkers climb to is about 400m further on the same ridge leading to Pumori. The ridge is sharply cut in one place and the cairn with prayer flags sits there. This spot is clearly higher than the summit of true Kala Pattar. Somebody with proper authority should rewrite the article and explane these facts and why there are two competing altitudes for these two points, as two separate points there are. This is not a complicated matter but just a confusion from calling both the summit and the knoll on the ridge line "Kala Pattar". Petrus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.65.255.1 (talk) 10:36, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Visibility of Lhotse from Kala Patthar
The article states that Lhotse is visible from Kala Patthar. This is not true. Kala Patthar lies to the west of Nuptse and is more than 2000 m lower. Standing on Kala Patthar and looking east, Nuptse obscures everything lying to its East including the the Lhotse-Nuptse ridge and Lhotse itself. Everest lying to the northeast of Nuptse is visible, and it appears to be lower than Nuptse because it is further away.

 * The above unsigned comment is not mine. What I will add, is that after spending time with Google Earth, and after consulting my own photographs, I believe you can see the ridge, and possibly the peak, of Lhotse beyond the shoulder of Nuptse. In my photgraph, that ridge line appears to drop, meaning that it is likely that you can see the "peak" of Lhotse, but it is certainly not unobscured. In other words, it's not easy to spot. Steve Pastor (talk) 00:18, 17 December 2012 (UTC).

I suggest that the ambiguity arises from the disagreement about exactly what Kala Pattar is. From the area called Kala Patthar by our Sherpas, there is a glimps of a ridge behind Nuptse. From higher up a little more is visible, and it is possible that the peak of Lhotse can be seen. The real issue is whether the wording in the article "The views of Everest, Lhotse, and Nuptse are spectacular from almost anywhere on Kala Patthar" is true. I suggest "The views of Everest and Nuptse are spectacular from Kala Patthar and there are glimpses of the northern flank of Lhotse. 86.154.129.175 (talk) 17:49, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Since the article has few "references," due to the remoteness of the area, I went ahead and made the suggested change, based on "our" mututal understanding. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 * This panoramic photo below is from the article is described as taken from Kala Patthar:

 * Click on it and zoom up on the full-size image. In it you can clearly see the South Col. From there, follow that ridge to the right until you see a few jagged notched peaks. Keep going just a little further to the right until you get to a slightly higher peak (Lhotse?), right before the ridge drops down and disappears behind Nuptse. Compare to this photo of Lhotse from the Western Cwm. Isn't this slightly higher peak visible in the panorama Lhotse? Now I wouldn't really call this a spectacular view, but you can see it, evidently. -- Racer X11 Talk to me Stalk me  00:44, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree with Racerx11, it is indeed Lhotse main summit which is visible. But Nuptse main summit (7861m) isn't visible, only lower Nuptse Nup II (7742m). --Pseudois (talk) 14:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

The Name of the Peak in front and to the North of Everest
Viewed from Kala Patthar there is a large triangular mountain immediately in front of Everest and to the north of the Khumbu glacier. Can anyone provide a name (or names) for this peak please? The view of it could be described as spectacular and I suggest the article would be better for the inclusion of name. Treluckey (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

 * It may have another name but I think that feature is usually referred to as "Everest's West Shoulder" or the West Shoulder. It's a little bit of optical illusion in that it's not really a mountain as it appears viewed from Kala Patthar, it's actually the end of the West Ridge viewed edge-on. Much in the way Nuptse looks more impressive from the same view, looking at it down the edge of the ridge. -- Racer X11 Talk to me Stalk me  11:44, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely correct, it is P7205m located on the West shoulder. But Changtse is visible further left. --Pseudois (talk) 14:35, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Pseudois for the confirmation and clarifications, here and at the post above. -- Racer X11 Talk to me Stalk me  22:10, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kala Patthar


text:
Lady Be Good

Lady Be Good may refer to:

Music

 * Lady, Be Good (musical), a 1924 Broadway musical by George and Ira Gershwin
 * "Oh, Lady Be Good!", a song from the musical
 * Lady Be Good ... For Ella, a 1993 album by Tommy Flanagan

Film

 * Lady Be Good (1928 film), a romantic comedy starring Dorothy Mackaill and Jack Mulhall
 * Lady Be Good (1941 film), a musical starring Eleanor Powell

Other

 * Lady Be Good (aircraft), an American B-24D Liberator bomber, of World War II, lost in 1943 in the Libyan dessert after its first and only mission

title: Lady Be Good


text:
Talk:Onager (weapon)

More info needed
more info needed

 * Can someone blend this with mangonel? These are the same thing! tofor

 * An onager did not fire at the same angle as a mangonel, a mangonel fired at an angle so the projectiles could clear walls, whereas an onager fired straight forward.

 * Still, they're similar (at least similar enough that Age of Empires II makes the onager available as an upgrade to the mangonel). I agree with the merge. -- Gray  Porpoise Phocoenidae, not Delphinidae 20:54, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't give a Dodo Bird about age of empires, but a onager and a mangonel are not the same thing!-- Lee Tru.  00:57, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I seriously doubt any torsion, tension or counterweight siege engines were usually used primarily as straight-firing weapons. Even a modern rifle, depending on model, you have to put a bit of angle on (on top of-such chemical-explosion powered weapons' tendency to angle a touch high out of the barrel of its own accord) by the time you reach a range of about 200 meters (simplifying somewhat; I don't think the Barret M82 .50 caliber rifle is particularly useful in discussion here69.200.228.170 (talk) 22:34, 17 November 2015 (UTC)).

But nevermind all that. It's not clear to me from the description here that this weapon is any different from the more well-known CATAPULTA of Roman times. This page would be much more useful if it specified the difference between the two, say, offering a drawing of the other, more common, 'engine'. That would be more useful to the reader, no? Also, closely related pages sometimes mistranslate the engine as a being a type of 'artillery', rather than, say, 'siege engine', i.e. as when discussing its use by archimedes. that's more misleading than helpful--just to add69.200.228.170 (talk) 22:15, 17 November 2015 (UTC) 69.200.228.170 (talk) 22:34, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Creation Date
How about someone mention when onagers were invented? Seems to be a pretty basic piece of information.

Actually, I think I'll mark this a stub. It seems rather short. --Simetrical 01:24, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Nice Picture Available
There is a nice picture available in another Wiki. See. I don't know how to add it to the english article, can anybody help? Gaius Cornelius 18:02, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

It has been done!

Category:Roman siege engines vs. Category:Siege engines
Category:Roman siege engines is itself a category within Category:Siege engines. — Robert Greer (talk) 04:02, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ammianus Quote
The quote given from Ammianus Marcellinus is misleading, at best. In the direct latin translation, the great historian does not mention use of Greek Fire in conjunction with the onager (or, indeed, at all throughout his Antiquities). I suggest finding a more accurate translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.42.79.152 (talk) 22:14, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Tension vs Torsion
This article says the onager used tension. I think that's wrong. Tension was used by the mangonel, rather than the onager. The onager used torsional force instead of tension. This article already says that the onager uses torsional force, but later it says tension too. Although I'm not sure, so I'll let someone else change that. - 72.184.128.205 (talk) 19:07, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Warning
Recent edits on this page have been made by a known vandalizer (Special:Contributions/Sosa97) who has been blocked on multiple other accounts and IPs such as User:198.46.126.2, User:108.35.224.118, User:Nova1Nova1, and User:66hester. The original IP User:198.46.126.2 engaged in edit warring on several wikipages including Trebuchet, Hongyipao, Harpy eagle, and RSM-56 Bulava. On 18 July 2018, we were both blocked for a time for edit warring with the suggestion that we discuss our rationale for the changes made on the Talk page. I have done that for Talk:Hongyipao, explaining my reversions of his edits, but he has not responded. However he has continued with editing on this alternate account in the same pattern as before including removal of cited quotations from peer reviewed monographs without explanation, replacement with inferior and outdated sources such as centuries old texts or a TV series, and alternations to material which then directly contradict existing sources referenced as well as the sources he removed. Ping to users who have been involved with this user at some point or another:            Qiushufang (talk) 01:00, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

 * Not this again. We strongly need standard semi-protection on this article, without pending changes. Nosebagbear (talk)

Onager
Onager was a small catapult used for firing rocks up to 70 kg. It helped the romans win many wars — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.229.240.196 (talk) 07:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Torsion Structure
The lead diagram of this article has the throwing arm connected to a "spring" high up the structure. The old picture below it appears to be different and correct with no rope ahead of the throwing arm.

The power of these weapons comes from the lower end of the throwing arm being in a bunch of rope or leather rings put in tension by the bunched rings being twisted as the throwing arm is pulled back.

The power is from the rings being in tension, but not by simply pulling them. I think the link below might lead to a photo of a modern version. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Onager_catapult_-_Felsenburg_Neurathen_-_Bastei_%28Sachsen%29_-_Germany_-_26_June_2011.jpg 86.140.60.9 (talk) 14:49, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

 * I came to say the same thing. What the first diagram in this article depicts is not an onager.
 * 24.17.40.164 (talk) 24.17.40.164 (talk) 22:35, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Onager (weapon)