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Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/172

As a note to all, I am in no way commenting on the quality of 172s edits or of VeryVerily's. That is not the point. The point is that they got in a revert war that went on for 50 reversions each. That conduct is what I'm objecting to - I have no opinions one way or another on the edits as such. I have opinions on the conduct of the editors in making them. Snowspinner 00:27, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

 * As the other certifying party, I join Snowspinner in this statement. He says it better than I could say it myself. --Michael Snow 02:56, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

Squandering Time
If your interested in saving time and preventing foolishness, I suggest you (172) start obeying policy and respecting fellow wiki's. I have yet to have an incounter w you, or even seen you involved in anything, which didn't leave me pissed off w how arrogant, judgemental, and dubiously you were behaving. Take the plank from your own eye, and give a good deal more thought to the impression you have on others. Sam [Spade] 06:57, 22 May 2004 (UTC)~

Are the Problem Users really the true problem?
In my opinion, this kind of problem can not be solved by actions against the individual contributors – which is not to say that actions against them should not be taken. The important thing is to consider whether we are prepared to see Wikipedia detoriate by this kind of behavior making serious and knowledgeable contributors to leave the project more often than the ignorant and them who get a kick out of virtual warfare. If we are not, then we must agree on some change(s) in Wikipedia's function, that make this unwanted behaviour less rewarding. I've a few times proposed to use long-term protection of articles that are controversial and has passed the stub-level. This has maybe not been endorsed with enthusiasm, but I've also not seen any other proposals that would accomplish this. --Ruhrjung 08:44, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I think you make a good point. We need meta changes, and arn't going to be able to ban our way out of this. Sam [Spade] 08:46, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Three-revert limit
Since Wik has been penalized for going over a three-revert limit, it seems like 172 and VeryVerily ought to be held to that standard. Reverting any good-faith edit is a act of laziness that shows contempt for other editors; I believe that 99% of them are done simply to avoid discussion, in the hopes that the person whose work was reverted will give up. 172 has gotten pretty habitual about it, on top of which his circular discussion style is maddening and unproductive - see Talk:Vietnam_War for a fruitless attempt on my part to discuss instead of reverting. Stan 23:55, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Passive aggression
I started off with Talk:Augusto Pinochet. I will soon chronicle all his slanders against me so that people stop falling for these attacks and finally let me get back to work. 172 07:36, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

Requests for comment/172

 * VV 05:50, 22 May 2004 (UTC) 172 is a singular menace who does not belong on a community-oriented, consensus-based, neutrality-driven Wiki project. See my summary at my RFC page.

Talk:Augusto Pinochet
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3666291&oldid=3663433 I'm not saying you're 172's friend. I'm saying his friends started swarming. As an intellectual you should recognize this as the affirming the consequent logical fallacy. I'm aware of your general feelings about 172 and me, although I still don't feel I understand them completely despite our first conversation. VV 20:48, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3659766&oldid=3659596 It doesn't. But he told Viajero that it did, and gently asked him to "facilitate the process of unprotecting the page and putting up the winning version of the intro". Viajero fell for it (because he wanted to?) and gave 172 his unprotection and new intro. Hence, sleaze. VV 14:52, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3659452&oldid=3659402 As now all can see, 172 has adopted a new form of utter sleaze to get his way. VV 14:37, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3658478&oldid=3658432 Re that last part: My impression is that Eloquence seems to basically agree with 172's interpretation of the Chile events, but is also aware of 172's obnoxious, recalcitrant, and anti-Wiki behavior, and does recognize the need for NPOV. VV 12:37, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3657890&oldid=3657054 VV I did not say this. I said that some were buddies of 172, and they were. You are falling for 172 smear tricks. VV 09:24, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3652870&oldid=3652852 Typical. Offer nothing and call it a "gesture of compromise". Who is 172 trying to fool? Well, my gesture of compromise is the wording I wrote. VV 00:46, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3652480&oldid=3651320 To recap, we the then-editors of this page did reach a delicate consensus before the swarming started (first 172, then his friends). And 172 is the king of personal attacks; just look around. VV 22:53, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3650115&oldid=3649955 The poll is utterly meaningless, which is why I did not even take part. 172 recruited his ideological allies to vote, and they did. (With similar canvassing we could garner votes of our own, but no matter.) There are only one or two users I find it sad to see caring so little about NPOV, but the results change nothing. I already know about Wikipedia's strong political bias and don't need a poll to remind me. As has been pointed out, a similar poll on whether to include Criticisms of Mother Teresa would also probably go the wrong way. And Cadr is quite correct that most of those people have not participated in the discussion; statements such as "I didn't even know this was disputed" indicate, uh..., unawareness of what is going on here. VV 21:21, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3642021&oldid=3637228 Who am I attacking? And saying I "should present more compelling arguments" supports my supposition that you were not aware of the talk of these issues, because if so you would have seen the thousands and thousands of words arguing these very points. - VV 23:20, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3628385&oldid=3628071 By "consensus" version I mean what we, several parties collaborating, had worked out together to come up with before 172 showed up and began attacking this article. That had basically reached a consensus. 172's subsequent attacks I suppose could be taken as anti-consensus, but of course he has dismissed that process utterly as "partisan bickering", so consensus does not seem on his mind anyway. At any rate, this is and remains a straightforward neutrality issue. - VV 06:40, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3625717&oldid=3625313 The second sandox is just 172's personal one. This sandbox process appears to be changing nothing. We already developed a consensus version on the article itself (which is not obviously worse to me than the sandbox v.), and 172 refused to accept a word of it. Now that we're working with sandboxes, the same is taking place on those. - VV 01:32, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3609500&oldid=3609087 172's characterization of himself as the only one to offer a compromise is absurd. At least five users worked through numerous drafts of the intro to find one which pleased (or at least didn't offend) everyone. This includes me; I made several edits and re-edits in hopes of accommodating all concerns raised. By contrast, 172 is not willing to alter so much as one word of his intro paragraph; his only compromise is to add a 1 to his deceptive intro, where a reader can follow a link to a (poorly worded) "footnote" at the bottom of the page. Of course, if anyone's been reading this far, they already know this to be true. - VV 22:02, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3602222&oldid=3599989 Is this lighthearted self-parody, or do you mean this seriously? - VV 05:41, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3575507&oldid=3574571 ??? How is anything I've said a "personal attack"? I have been summarizing 172's behavioral patterns using his own words. Curiously, no one seems interested when 172 calls me a "right-wing" "chauvinist U.S. nationalist" who acts on "emotional" whims and lives in a "fantasy world", or when he called me RickK's "little bitch" or said my edits were "bullshit" and "gibberish". I guess those aren't personal attacks, but instead the thoughtful reflections of a "professional historian". Sure, there are no double standards here. Anyway, what is there to disagree with in my analysis of 172's behavior? And, we are at consensus, not counting 172, who has essentially opted out of that process. As for your recent proposal, I don't like "US-backed government" for two reasons: (1) it implies somehow that the US was propping it up, and that it would have collapsed without it, and (2) mentioning the US, a foreign nation, however involved in the Chile issue they were, as the first and only modifier describing the government, gives it undue prominence; why mention this aspect among all of them? Anyway, we have a perfectly good intro already, which we both worked on to find an agreeable version. 172 has no substantive objection to it except for it was not written solely by his own hand. -- VV 09:32, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3570759&oldid=3570627 172 is correct that Michael's suggestion is where we were weeks ago before his involvement, which is why things were fine and 172 is the sole problem user on this page. We did go through the named process, and did come up with an intro that satisfied the various parties (172 dismisses this consensus-building as "partisan bickering" which he could "care less" about). But 172 will have none of it. His version must stand unaltered, and (to quote from above) if you don't like it "you'll just have to bear it", "take it or leave it". 172 is simply not interested in the Wiki process. It is because of people like him completely convinced that they are right and that there is no need to adjust to anyone else's concerns that Wikipedia has so many edit wars. There is no working with someone who insists on sole authorship; that is why the edit box warns "edited mercilessly". People like that should shape up or leave. 172 knows perfectly well he is adding "unproven" claims, but he just plays semantic games with everyone who takes time out to explain it to him. That is why I regard this as trolling, he's being inflammatory and provoking response. -- VV 01:16, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3528230&oldid=3523207 Of course it implies this. 172 knows this perfectly well. He just wants us to say it again and again in multiple forums (we even had this discussion in Requests for protection). -- VV 11:35, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3523207&oldid=3523164
 * A particularly comical example of this is in Talk:Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War/Archive_1 under the rule under section 6, where 172 declared "proof" that I was "trolling" because I did not respond to his comment within thirty-one minutes! Anyway, 172 is playing dumb here; if he really had reread the comments, he would have seen the extensive discussion on this point, the most reason one involving him, Cadr, and me. But what trolls do is post inflammatory content to provoke more and more responses. That's why he wants me to keep repeating myself. -- VV 11:29, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3518650&oldid=3518564 Incidentally, I forgot to mention that I'm happy (as I indicated before by not reverting) to accept your super-short intro as a stop-gap measure until 172 stops trolling we figure something out. -- VV 01:25, 10 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3491811&oldid=3491689 I had, you'll note, accepted this stop-gap measure, but 172 continued to revert to his version anyway, in fact reverted once just to revert. Thus, alas, I concluded this idea was DOA. -- VV 23:09, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3438458&oldid=3438392
 * Surely you've seen the weeks' worth of discussion, and how little fruit it's brought with 172, who dismisses all criticisms and says it's "too bad" if you don't like his version. I and several other users have worked out consensus versions of the intro, but 172 will only tolerate his own. I do consider this trolling; he is deliberately adding inflammatory misinformation over several users' wishes, knowing it will provoke a response; that is virtually the definition. -- VV 00:16, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3438327&oldid=3438283 I have never been uncivil, and I'm not denying engaging in revert wars. I will do so with people like 172 who would otherwise stomp on anyone who doesn't. I do not consider it childish to defend the encyclopedia against personally abusive, anti-consensus, uncivil pushers of misinformation. -- VV 00:08, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3438233&oldid=3437404 Getting 172 to be civil = getting pig to sing. -- VV 23:13, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

I don't see the point of having a new poll; it will simply turn into another ideological head count, and I for one would not accept any result that the article should push a controversial POV. The neutrality guidelines are clear on this point. 172's trolling (pushing controversial, inflammatory content) should be seen for what it is and not taken seriously. You (Eloquence) have already put much effort into trying to explain the rules to 172 above; I doubt it will bear much more fruit than my efforts, but it's all we can really do for this dispute. -- VV 21:47, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3339678&oldid=3339412

Is this comment directed at me? If so, I was referring to the earlier protection of this article (by Raul654), where it was frozen on 172's version, which he was pushing against several other users. Nobody cried foul about the choice of version then. I should note 172 has done this before, try to convince admins to revert to his version on protected pages (User talk:Flockmeal). -- VV 05:52, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3330054&oldid=3330011

The last time it was protected was on 172's version, which was opposed to nearly all other parties. I don't remember this being an issue then. -- VV 05:36, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3329897&oldid=3329856

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3329201&oldid=3329192 I see plenty of evidence here for discontent with your unilateral stance, which is to push the leftwing mythology with poor writing. -- VV 04:22, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3328091&oldid=3327937 Just in case anyone thinks there is a substantive dialog taking place here, this is the full extent of the changes to the intro which 172 has "accepted" during this entire affair. That's right, a single superscripted 1 at the end. Quite the compromise! -- VV

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3327937&oldid=3327740 There is absolutely nothing wrong with the intro before 172 started trolling. The "wordiness" was a red herring; an article this length can afford a few dozen words in the intro, in complete sentences (you know, with verbs). The only questionable part was that relating to the US and the coup; this already has a gigantic section, and we do not need to take sides in the intro. The footnote is particularly ridiculous, when there is an article which says the same thing. The version we'd worked out gives a clear, concise, neutral description of Pincohet's rise, rule, fall, and perceived legacy. A new version of the short note about the US has been put in; the reader can read more later about it in the extensive coverage. -- VV 02:05, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) (This comment was added after edit conflict with Ruhrjung.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3317557&oldid=3317325 I think the situation is similar to before: Everyone is willing to discuss it and work constructively, except 172, who insists his intro and his alone is the only possible one. Otherwise, something close to a delicate consensus had been painstakingly reached between the partisans throughout several weeks. It's not clear whether 172 will bother to continue harassing (trolling?) this article against everyone else (his repeated promises to leave forever notwithstanding); he may have felt he "won" by gaining the protection. Anyway, see the discussion above for details. -- VV 06:26, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3295299&oldid=3259006 (de-indenting) You have not addressed the 172 behavior issue, still. I'm glad we agree on keeping this article on focus. Your opinions of the US's motives (and others') are your own and I assume you realize that; I have my own opinions, too (were we in a position to install a Japan-style gov't?), but I'm not putting them in the intro. These are complex subjects, and to fully elaborate requires lots of detail, including the documents you noted, which could be an article of its own, in fact its own encyclopedia. That's why almost anything stated in a short intro on, recall, the man Pinochet will be troublesome unless it leaves a lot of room for all POVs. My final note is that documents from 1970 may talk about the future, but they're written before it and so do not prove what policies actually came to pass. -- VV 23:41, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You seem to be dodging the question of the appropriateness of 172's unilateralness and abusiveness. Yes, I wholly concede that the CIA under orders of Nixon sought ways to overthrow Allende in 1970. There is nothing to indicate they wanted what happened in 1973 to occur, nor even less that they had anything to do with it. Indeed, they may have been happier waiting for the next election and trying to sink Allende then. Yes, I do take the CIA's word for it, and at any rate flatly contradicting them in the intro is a violation of NPOV. Next, when saying the US "supported" Pinochet after he came to power, we have to be very careful what we mean. It does not mean they supported everything he did or agreed with all of his actions. We arguably "support" Taiwan right now, but that does not mean we sign off on all their policies. By saying things like "the US supported the right-wing military dictator of Chile", one is deliberately blurring important distinctions as to what was and what was not supported and why and how and under what conditions, and thus painting the US as the evil boogeyman (obviously the goal). If we just stick to the undisputed facts, such as the CIA section of the article mostly does, we should be okay. -- VV 22:02, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3258140&oldid=3257916

The intelligence community surveyed the documents recently and concluded the US "did not assist Pinochet to assume the Presidency" (see ref in text). At any rate, it was an attempt to balance all sides; in fact that sentence was a revised version (not by me) of a compromise, as I feel the involvement or not of the US can be relegated to the gigantic discussion section below. If you have better wording you should try it out; at least we're talking about it. That doesn't mean 172's bully tactics and contempt and disrespect for consensus are A-okay. -- VV 19:28, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3257762&oldid=3256126

My last write of the intro was designed to balance all these concerns, and I think it does so fairly well. As Ed mentions, the CIA discussion is now the largest section in the article! This is just a case of 172 being out of control; I assume you've noted his contempt for consensus comments above. -- VV 02:40, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3247294&oldid=3247005

"US-backed" does not mean what 172 wants to claim, nor is it accurate even in a broad sense, nor could any sense it might claim to be accurate in justify putting a reference to the US in the intro. This has all been discussed, with the agreement to not have it, and 172 knows this. Of course, he is disrespecting process and neutrality because of personal vendettas and ideological warring. -- VV 01:07, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3220260&oldid=3220232

Translation: "I'm 172, only my opinion matters. The method of using the Talk pages to discuss an article, hash out an agreement, and reach a consensus doesn't apply to me. Neutrality is immaterial, as my opinion should be stated in the intro, no matter how many other POVs there are. Anyone who alters such edits or disagrees is a POV-pushing troll." -- VV 21:28, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3217074&oldid=3216805

I think you'll find 172 will be the only one involved who favors continued protection, as he is using it as a blunt tool to push his own POV with no respect for Wikipedia's policies. The reverts in recent history have all been by or because of him. -- VV 02:33, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3206479&oldid=3206414

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3206139&oldid=3206130 I have put in a request at Requests for protection. You can add your voice there. Basically, 172 got the page protected by lying. -- VV 02:07, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3206107&oldid=3205752 I see this page is protected now, on account of basically one user (172) who has no interest in neutrality and is trying to reinsert highly disputed assertions into the intro against a litany of users who are trying to actually work on the article and make it fair. 172 has not defended his actions here, nor shown awareness of the long conversation we've already had on this page. -- VV 01:36, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

User talk:Snowspinner
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Snowspinner&dummy=1&diff=0&oldid=3684534 Hey Snowspinner, I understand your concerns about the three-revert rule, but you may not know my history with it. I did stick to the rule for a while in my dealings with 172, and he never did. The quickpoll system in force, I tried to use that to bring up one of 172's more egregious revert attacks (five in ~one hour against two users, trying to erase a week's worth of edits) - and the community shrugged it off. 172 does not consider himself bound by this rule - or any rule - and my edits and efforts will simply be destroyed if I do not do battle. I hope you realize I really have tried everything I can think of - RfC pages, 3rd party interventions, long, long, long attempts to talk to him on Talk and User talk pages - and nothing but reverting back has worked. 172 lacks basic respect for others and the Wiki process, and the community lacks the will and coherence to control him. VV 06:17, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

User talk:Eloquence
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=0&oldid=3694570 Well, I saw no indication 172 was getting the discussion on track, and time has borne this out. To me attacking 172's behavior is not a personal attack (e.g., saying "172 keeps inappropriately reverting the article"). Calling me a "little bitch" or an "ignorant fuck" is. Anyway, you might have noticed there are RfC pages on us now, and the threat of arbitration. Perhaps you will chime in; I hope at least you can validate my claims about 172's conduct, whatever your other sentiments. VV 23:39, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3652079&oldid=3651397 I'd still like to know what you meant by that, in particular singling me out given the context. Whatever else I've done (in desperation from community inaction), I have not stooped to 172's level or even near in this regard. VV 22:59, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3482266&oldid=3481155 I'll try to be brief. First, you are wrong about what I "subconsciously" know; I disagree very strongly with your perspective on the coup, but I don't want to dwell on that here, as that's what the Talk page discussion was for. (I should perhaps note that 172 himself once conceded that the U.S. could not have prevented the coup if they wanted to.) I do not desire to "avoid the Wikipedia bureaucracy"; I tried it out, over and over in many ways, and have little to show for it. By not "adopting 172's methods", I would have been doomed to eternal capitulation, watching my efforts reverted away because I nobly refused to "play his game", and thus became "the victim". No thanks. I don't write on Wikipedia so I can watch my work disappear into the page history. I tried the high road on Red Scare, and I will not be fooled again. It seems silly I should need an alliance to enforce clear NPOV standards, but I do have a good rapport with several users who understand what's going on. But alliances are tricky matters, and many don't have time to rescue others. As for whether 172 is trolling or just a bully, I can't say for sure, but given his past stalking behavior, the fact that he showed up at this article suggests he's here to make trouble. -- VV 05:09, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

At the risk of spreading the debate here, US-backed is not very ambiguous, and even if it's tolerated as a "catch-all", then UK-backed or whatever would also be appropriate. Putting it in the beginning of the intro is POV-pushing, as it gives the US prominence in an article on a Chilean politician when many feel the US is barely relevant. Anyway, moving on, you've missed the point of the rapist/victim example; I didn't say "accused rapist". But at any rate, I'll give a concrete example rather than pursue the made-up one: I quickpolled 172 for five reverts on Red Scare some time ago, he made a retaliatory quickpoll, cutting and pasting my language in another spurt of I'm-copying-you adolescence, even though I'd only made three reverts. He broke the rule, I didn't, yet people in the name of "impartiality" were voting the same way on both polls. You see my point? Re Pinochet, 172 was not being reasonable; he was erasing the product of weeks of delicate negotiations just because he could, and refusing to change even one word, allowing only a superscripted 1 to muddy his God-given intro. You know; you were there. I'm starting to think that Adam Carr's characterization of him as a sophisticated vandal may be right on. -- VV 23:55, 6 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3480841&oldid=3478500

I know you agree with 172's POV, but it is a POV, and there are others. You know the policy. Anyway, 172's intransigence would be unacceptable even if he were right. The footnote approach is a joke; why use it when you can simply say what you have to say, unless of course it's to make sure not word of 172's godly intro is changed? And it still pushes a POV. Polls are problematic for the reasons noted, and a judge would have to be "impartial", but what would that mean? Protesting having no opinion initially, but then issuing one later? (Though I concede its value, impartiality is a suspect notion; should one be "impartial" between a rapist and his victim?) Compromise is also tricky notion when it's compromise that got the intro the rest of us developed but 172 refuses to allow. We'd be stuck with an infinite regress of compromises, with anyone sufficiently obnoxious being able to hold the community hostage. I guess I'm at a loss to know what to do; Wikipedia simply does not have the "legal" structure to deal with the likes of 172. -- VV 20:50, 4 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3450200&oldid=3450142

Not to sound cynical, but being the innocent party has never helped me before, but direct action has. I've basically given up on not being equal revert-wise (though I don't see myself as rude), although I held off on the Civil War war so as to not be the first to make a fourth revert. There's not really anything to vote on in the intro; his version pushes a POV, while mine does not. Your analogy with Mother Teresa suits this case. -- VV 05:55, 4 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3441840&oldid=3441431

Will nothing be done about this rogue? He's back at it again, trolling Pinochet, an article in which you also have a stake and have tried to deal with him on. -- VV 00:11, 4 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3438773&oldid=3438338

You mentioned before about being willing to intervene vis-a-vis 172's abuses. I think you can see this is such a case, whatever opinions you may have. Refer also to Requests for page protection for more on this case. -- VV 21:34, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=3226478&oldid=3216878

User talk:Ed Poor
Hey Ed Poor, you might want to refer to the extensive discussion about this meaningless and irrelevant "poll" if you haven't been checked lately. And anyway, as you and Michael Snow both pointed out, the poll binds nothing, and, of course, it is tainted by 172's campaigning. VV 12:34, 20 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor&diff=3692513&oldid=3658414

Requests for review of administrative actions
One major difference between my "rollback" and 172's is that his last one was done after the page was protected, which I as a non-admin could not equal. If this was intentional, it would be his fourth violation of protection policy (that I know of!), but I conjecture it was not, since for one it was before the msg:protected went up. (I think reverting would be appropriate since admins should not have extra personal dispute power.) Since "admin rollback" is marked as minor it seems it should not be used for run of the mill content disputes, but this may not be policy. Also, Snowspinner, you missed the edit war at Joseph Stalin! I urge users to see for themselves the nature of the edits which 172 felt he should use ~50 reverts, without comment, to prevent me from making. VV 08:26, 22 May 2004 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_review_of_administrative_actions&diff=3688876&oldid=3685326

Sainthood for VV
After seeing the collection of VV's comments, I'm ready to nominate him for sainthood - despite 172 repeatedly dumping the profanity and ad hominems on him, the worst VV seems to be able to say is "rogue". If I'd had to put up with all that from 172, I'd have been foaming at the mouth, and probably would have quit Wikipedia. Stan 12:54, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
 * "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. Matthew 7:1-5. 172 21:15, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Amen! Stan 04:31, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Should we start Nominations for Wikisainthood?Snowspinner 18:16, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Try image:barnstar.png. Martin 19:22, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Discussion of main summary
(Moved from the main page)

It is no coincidence that most of the "other users who endorse this summary" (Sam Spade, VeryVerily, Nat Krause) do nothing on Wikipedia except spew rightwing POV into articles, and never show any attempt toward serious scholarship. RickK, at least, is an overall productive user, but he seems to think that anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun is a Stalinist, explaining why he is always ready to attack me every chance he gets, even for things he blatantly does himself all the time. This isn't a statement of my contributions or personality attributes, but rather a listing of rightwing POV users. If others jump into this witch hunt, it'll say more about them than it does about me. 172 09:20, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, anyone who wants can look at my contributions to see if they agree with your characterization of my edits (I noticed that there was also a similar note from Spade briefly on your talk page). And your preemptive attack on anyone who might critique your behavior here in the future is not very classy.  I suppose you would have us believe that Snowspinner and Michael Snow are also right-wing trolls?  Regardless of what you might think, your actions are what's at issue here -- VV has his own requests for comment page.  Quit trying to change the subject. - Nat Krause 12:59, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

"our expert contributors deserve far more respect" (edit comment from sj )

 * A modicum of respect would seem to be a sine qua non for a wiki project like this. Personally, I've never seen a Wikipedian act as disrespectfully to fellow editors as 172 has (although there are some Wikipedians I've had the good fortune not to encounter so far).  I'm not aware of anyone else referring to another Wikipedia user as a "little bitch".  I'm not aware of anyone else saying to another Wikipedia user: "You fucking coward. You didn't have the balls after all."  Don't all contributors deserve respect?  Or does that requirement not apply to 172? - Nat Krause 08:17, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Well I must say I have never seen such a blatant ideologically led witchunt as the one here against 172. My isn't it a strange co-incidence that the people attacking him here happen to all be on the right and disagree with 172's politics.

I surpose this witchhunt is of course in no way related to the fact that 172 is one of the few people on the wikipedia attempting to balance the right wing POV which is so prevailent in the WP.

The rightwing cabal have already driven away User:Secretlondon and now they are trying to drive away anyone else who dare to disagree with their world views. I wouldn't be surprised if they started on me next. G-Man 12:12, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * You have made this absurd and uninformed pronouncement before, but let me remind whoever that the issue is not 172's politics but his well-documented patterns of personal abuse and bullying tactics. If you (G-Man) really have been watching these conflicts, you know this to be true.  (And it's only fair to note 172 has been actively recruiting the far-left "cabal".)  (The "rightwing cabal" claims are ridiculous; who drove away Daniel Quinlan, Ark30inf, etc.?) VV 18:41, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * So Mr. G-Man, do you think it's OK to call other editors "little bitch" and "fucking coward", and to revert an article 50 times in a row? All this talk about rightwing and leftwing is just a smokescreen to distract from the original point, which is about acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Stan 05:48, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I am in no way right wing. Snowspinner 14:09, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the users actually deliberately trying to add fuel to the fire, not meddlesome but earnest third parties. I assume that G-Man was referring to the same users. I know absolutely nothing about the political leanings of either you or Michael Snow. Incidentally, I know nothing about either of you other than the fact that you both appear really eager to further entangle and complicate things regarding these RCF and now arbitration pages. 172 15:06, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Try behaving like an adult more often. Stan 05:48, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

People OK with 172's behavior!?
I'm bothered to see so many people endorsing 172's unacceptable behavior. What's the point of having all these rules about reverting and personal abuse if rulebreaking is going to be condoned? I can see I made the right decision in avoiding all the articles that 172 touches. Stan 06:43, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/172


text:
Yukon Legislative Assembly

The Yukon Legislative Assembly (Assemblée législative du Yukon) is the legislative assembly for Yukon, Canada. Unique among Canada's three territories, the Yukon Legislative Assembly is the only territorial legislature which is organized along political party lines. In contrast, in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, their legislative assemblies are elected on a non-partisan basis and operate on a consensus government model.

Each member represents one electoral district, elected through first-past-the-post voting. Members of the Legislative Assembly are sworn in by the commissioner of Yukon.

History
From 1900 to 1978, the elected legislative body in Yukon was the Yukon Territorial Council, a body which did not act as the primary government, but was a non-partisan advisory body to the commissioner of the Yukon. Following the passage of the Yukon Elections Act in 1977, the Territorial Council was replaced by the current Legislative Assembly, which was elected for the first time in the 1978 Yukon general election.

Current members
Italicized text indicates a member of cabinet. Bold text indicates a party leader. Both indicates the Premier of Yukon

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Yukon Legislative Assembly


text:
Ohms

ohms (symbol Ω) usually refers to the plural for the unit of electrical resistance, named after Georg Ohm

Ohms or OHMS may also refer to:

 * Ohm's law of electric currents, first proposed by Georg Ohm
 * O.H.M.S., On His/Her Majesty's Service
 * O.H.M.S. (film), a 1937 British action comedy film
 * OHMS (1980 film), an American film starring Leslie Nielsen
 * Ohms (album), a 2020 album by Deftones
 * "Ohms" (song), a song from the album
 * Office of Hazardous Materials Safety, federal safety authority within the United States Department of Transportation
 * Oral History Metadata Synchronizer, a web application for accessing oral history interviews

title: Ohms


text:
Paulo Futre

Paulo Jorge dos Santos Futre (born 28 February 1966) is a Portuguese former footballer who played mostly as a left winger.

Widely considered as one of the best players of his generation, after starting his professional career with Sporting, he moved to Porto – winning the 1987 European Cup – after which he embarked in an extensive professional career, having represented clubs in Spain, France, Italy, England and Japan, most notably Atlético Madrid. He also appeared for Benfica during four months in 1993, and his later years were blighted by injury problems.

A Portuguese international from the age of 17, Futre earned over 40 caps for his country, representing it at the 1986 World Cup.

Sporting CP and Porto
Born in Montijo, Setúbal District, Futre first appeared professionally in 1983–84, as a 17-year-old for Sporting CP, whose youth system he had joined at the age of nine. When he requested a pay raise from president João Rocha, he was turned down and left for FC Porto after just one season, as veterans Jaime Pacheco and António Sousa moved in the opposite direction as part of the deal.

In the following years, Futre collected two Primeira Liga titles, also helping the northerners to the 1986–87 European Cup, putting on a Player of the match performance in the final against FC Bayern Munich.

Atlético Madrid
After that continental win, Futre was traded to Atlético Madrid in Spain, earning a reported annual salary of €650,000. At the capital club he quickly rose to fan favourite status, but his physical weakness left him with several knee injuries which tormented his career in the 1990s.

In his fifth season, Futre provided countless assists for striker Manolo who scored 27 goals for the Pichichi Trophy, with him netting in the campaign's Copa del Rey, a 2–0 win over rivals Real Madrid. During most of his spell with the Colchoneros, he was also team captain.

Journeyman and retirement
In January 1993, Futre moved to Porto and Sporting rivals S.L. Benfica, winning a Taça de Portugal in his short stay (and scoring in the final against Boavista F.C. in a 5–2 victory), as his injury woes persisted. Afterwards, he signed a one-season contract with Olympique de Marseille, where he teamed up with countryman Rui Barros. His time in France was largely disappointing, however, once again due to continual injuries, as well as competition from Dragan Stojković in his position, which limited him to only two goals in eight league games.

Halfway through 1993–94, despite being linked with AC Milan, Futre eventually transferred to newly promoted Serie A side AC Reggiana 1919. On his debut, on 21 November 1993, he scored a memorable individual goal which opened the scoring in a 2–0 win over US Cremonese and gave the hosts their first ever win in the top flight; during the second half, however, he suffered a serious injury after an aggressive challenge from Alessandro Pedroni, which kept him out for the rest of the season as his team narrowly avoided relegation.

The following campaign, Futre managed only 12 appearances and netted four times, which were not enough to save Reggiana from relegation. For 1995–96 he did move to Milan but, due to continuing injury troubles as well as competition from other talented offensive, creative players in his position, he only featured once for the Fabio Capello-led team, coming on as a substitute for Roberto Baggio in the final match of the season against Cremonese at the San Siro, which ended 7–1 for the hosts who celebrated the league conquest.

After his time in Italy, Futre agreed to a one-year deal with West Ham United, where he infamously refused to play until he was given squad number 10. Finally, he returned to Atlético Madrid (ten La Liga matches in 1997–98), effectively ending his career with J1 League club Yokohama Flügels; he ranked joint-98th in World Soccer's 100 Greatest Players of the 20th century, published in December 1999.

Futre worked as director of football at Atlético Madrid from 2000 to 2003, subsequently becoming a real-estate developer in his hometown. In May 2011, he was part of Dias Ferreira's team in an unsuccessful run for Sporting's presidency.

International career
Futre played 41 times for Portugal in a 12-year span, scoring six goals. His debut came against Finland for the UEFA Euro 1984 qualifiers, on 27 April 1983 – he was only 17 years and 204 days old, breaking a national team record.

Futre was a member of the national team that competed in the 1986 FIFA World Cup in Mexico, playing 90 minutes in the 3–1 loss to Morocco in an eventual group-stage exit.

Style of play
A highly talented and creative left-footed winger whose playing style initially drew comparisons with Diego Maradona, Futre was known in particular for his explosive acceleration as well as his excellent technical ability. His dribbling skills, pace, agility and quick feet enabled him to be extremely fast with the ball at his feet and allowed him to take on several opponents.

Due to his vision and work-rate, Futre was capable both of creating and scoring goals, and was a versatile player who was also deployed as a second striker and as an attacking midfielder on occasion during his time in Italy. Despite the precocious talent he demonstrated in his youth, he was also prone to injuries which greatly affected his career, leading to increasingly inconsistent performances, a poorer goalscoring rate, and a premature retirement at the age of 32.

Personal life
Futre's younger son, Fábio, was also a footballer. A midfielder, he played for Atlético Madrid's youth teams, and was called up for Portugal under-17s. His nephew, Artur Futre, appeared professionally for F.C. Alverca, F.C. Maia and C.D. Aves, without much impact; his older son, Paulo, played in a rock band, "Fr1day".

Paulo Sr. was also a television presenter, hosting the TVI 24 late night talk show A Noite do Futrebol.

Club
Appearances and goals by club, season and competition.

International
National team appearances and goals listed by year.

International goals
Scores and results list Portugal's goal tally first, score column indicates score after each Futre goal.

Honours
Porto
 * Primeira Liga: 1984–85, 1985–86
 * Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 1984, 1986
 * European Cup: 1986–87

Atlético Madrid
 * Copa del Rey: 1990–91, 1991–92

Benfica
 * Taça de Portugal: 1992–93

AC Milan
 * Serie A: 1995–96

Individual
 * Portuguese Footballer of the Year: 1986, 1987
 * Ballon d'Or: 1987 (2nd place)
 * World Soccer: 100 Greatest Footballers of All Time

title: Paulo Futre


text:
The Moon Is Down (album)

The Moon Is Down is the debut album by the Pompano Beach, Florida rock band Further Seems Forever, released in 2001 by Tooth & Nail Records. It was the band's first full-length album. Vocalist Chris Carrabba had already decided to leave the band to focus on his new project, Dashboard Confessional, but joined them in the studio to record the album. Dominguez left the band the following year to start the record label Pop Up Records. The two were replaced by Jason Gleason and Derick Cordoba, respectively, for the band's next album How to Start a Fire. A music video was filmed for the song "Snowbirds and Townies."

Composition
Musically, the sound of The Moon Is Down has been described as emo and indie rock with heavier elements. The opening track "The Moon Is Down" sees the group worship God for his strength and supporting them when faltering. "Snowbirds and Townies" talks about missing a girl that has been away from some time. "Pictures of Shorelines" talks about a couple forced to stay apart.

Release
The Moon Is Down was released through Tooth & Nail Records on March 27, 2001, which was promoted with a few shows alongside Thrice. In July 2001, the band appeared at Krazy Fest 4. Following this, the band toured across the US until August; they were supported by Fairweather, River City High, and the Starting Line. Between September and December, the band embarked on a cross-country US tour. They had various supporting acts during different months: The September shows were supported by As Friends Rust, Element 101 and Jameson; the October shows were supported by Ultimate Fakebook and Breaking Pangaea; the November shows were supported by the Juliana Theory, Relient K, and Ace Troubleshooter; and the December shows were supported by Dashboard Confessional, Fairweather, and Seville.

In February 2002, the band went on an east coast tour with Brand New and Recover, before touring with Hot Rod Circuit and Brand New in March and April. Following this, the band performed at Skate and Surf Fest. In July, they appeared on the midwestern dates of the Warped Tour, and in the following month, they toured across Europe. Returning to the US, the band toured until August, with Dynamite Boy, Lost City Angels, and Breaking Pangaea; the trek included an appearances at Furnace Fest and the Round Top Purple Door Music Festival.

Six of the album's tracks – the title-track, "Snowbirds and Townies", "The Bradley", "New Year's Project", "Wearing Thin" and "Pictures of Shorelines", as well as "Vengeance Factor" – later appeared on the group's compilation album Hope This Finds You Well (2006).

Reception
AllMusic reviewer Rick Anderson said it "kind of sneaks up on you", expecting another emo act with reflective feelings but lacking the attitude to craft a song with structure, until the first chorus comes: "Cathartic, tuneful, [and] soaring". While the "conceit remains pretty much the same", he doesn't find it "tiresome". He praised the group's "ability to combine relatively dense guitar rock with an edge of experimentalism and a deep undertow of emotional uplift" that is "more than just impressive — it's practically inspiring." Cross Rhythms writer James Stafford said there was "intensity" to the band's sound, and Carrabba's voice "really bring this out." He called them a "talented" act for "drawing on elements of rock, punk, hardcore" to craft "quite a good melodic rock album." Christianity Today Russ Breimeier said emo's " propensity for passion and emotion fits well" with Carrabba's lyricism. He complimented the band's "solid musicianship", particularly the "strong, in-your-face" guitar work and "slick, aggressive drumming that assaults your ears like a machine gun."

Jesus Freak Hideout staff member Sherwin Frias said upon his first listen to the album, it came across as "rather unremarkable", while noting its "melodic, yet hardly gripping" sound. It is ultimately "a pleasant, yet hardly engaging listen that passes by quickly without much of a fuss." Nathan T. Birk of Ink 19 wrote that it had a "time-tested formula for catharsis", noting the "sing-songy melodies", the frequent "half-time/down-tempo transitions", and Carrabba's "Geddy Lee-via-Jeremy Enigk elfin yelp that lets you know that, hey, he’s a sensitive guy." He pondering on the topic of originality: "Hardly, unless your conception of “originality” includes such latter-day emo-casualties" by the likes of Mineral and Boys Life.

Christianity Today included the album as an honorable mention on their best Christian albums of the year list. Jesus Freak Hideout ranked it at number 36 on their list of the top 100 Tooth & Nail releases. Mayday Parade covered "New Years Project" for the compilation Songs That Saved My Life Volume 2 (2019).

Track listing
All songs written by Further Seems Forever except where indicated
 * 1) "The Moon Is Down" - 3:12
 * 2) "The Bradley" - 3:01
 * 3) "Snowbirds and Townies" - 4:26
 * 4) "Monachetti" - 2:42
 * 5) "Madison Prep" - 2:54
 * 6) "New Year's Project" - 4:14
 * 7) "Just Until Sundown" (Further Seems Forever/Matthew Ian Fox) - 3:14
 * 8) "Pictures of Shorelines" - 3:12
 * 9) "Wearing Thin" - 2:59
 * 10) "A New Desert Life"/untitled hidden track - 8:52
 * 11) "Say It Ain't So"* (Rivers Cuomo; originally performed by Weezer) - 4:03
 * 12) "Vengeance Factor"** - 2:46

* Included on the vinyl LP release only. ** Included on the Japanese import version of the album only.

Personnel

 * Chris Carrabba - vocals
 * Josh Colbert - guitar
 * Nick Dominguez - guitar
 * Chad Neptune - bass
 * Steve Kleisath - drums
 * James Paul Wisner - keys

Album information

 * Record label: Tooth & Nail Records
 * Recorded September 28-November 1, 2000 at Wisner Productions. Drum tracks recorded at The Dungeon.
 * Produced and engineered by James Paul Wisner.
 * Assistant engineer: Joe at The Dungeon.
 * Design by Mark Owens.
 * Photography by Dan Ellis.

title: The Moon Is Down (album)


text:
Ili

Ili, ILI, Illi may refer to:

Abbreviations

 * Indian Law Institute
 * Influenza-like illness
 * Intelligent Land Investments
 * Intensive lifestyle intervention, a type of lifestyle medicine
 * International Law Institute, a non-profit organization which teaches and publishes in the field of international development in the United States
 * International Legion of Intelligence, the former name of Intertel, a high-IQ society
 * Intuitive Logical Introvert, a personality type in socionics
 * Iran Language Institute, a state-owned, non-profit organization for developing foreign language learning in Iran
 * Irish Life International, part of Irish Life and Permanent

People

 * Ili (singer) (born 1998), or Emily Middlemas, Scottish singer-songwriter
 * Ili (actress) (born 1993), Taiwanese actress

Placenames

 * Ili (river), in China and Kazakhstan
 * Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture, in Xinjiang, China
 * Yining City, seat of Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture
 * Ili, a name sometimes used in the past for the main city of the Ili region: first Huiyuan, later Suiding

Other

 * Ili Turki language (ISO 639-3 ), a Turkic language of China

title: Ili


text:
User:Wyllium

Wyllium: proudly addicted to Wikipedia™ since around May 2003.

Leo clarke did not win the "Canadian" Victoria Cross. there is only one Victoria Cross and it is awarded for bravery by any soldier of an army of the British Commonwealth. Oldguyal

oldguyal are u dense what were we before trudeau. bna act? Stan great great nephew of leo clarke

title: User:Wyllium


text:
The Lottery in Babylon

"The Lottery in Babylon" (original Spanish: "La lotería en Babilonia", "The Babylon Lottery") is a fantasy short story by Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges. It first appeared in 1941 in the literary magazine Sur, and was then included in the 1941 collection The Garden of Forking Paths (El jardín de los senderos que se bifurcan), which in turn became the part one of Ficciones (1944).

Plot summary
The story describes a mythical Babylon in which all activities are dictated by an all-encompassing lottery, which people must live by, and has full control over many's lives, a metaphor for the role of chance in one's life. Initially, the lottery was run as a lottery would be, with tickets purchased and the winner receiving a monetary reward. Later, punishments and larger monetary rewards were introduced. Further, participation became mandatory for all but the elite. Finally, it simultaneously became so all-encompassing and so secret some whispered "the Company has never existed, and never will," and some even posited that the question of the existence of the Company was irrelevant, as Babylon "is nothing but an infinite game of chance."

Themes
The story is about the role that chance plays in life, whether occurrences are genuinely deserved or whether all of life is merely based on luck or loss. The story references Zeno's paradox by using the lottery as a metaphor for all the possible random occurrences that could occur between any two points in time. As with fate, the Babylonians attempted to gain control of the lottery by whispering in secret places, though the lottery eventually banned this as a liability. The story may be a criticism of the tendency of humans to claim the authority of nature and capitalize on it, as the Company does with chance. The Lottery cannot be challenged, as it is based on the absolute that is chance. As with most Borges stories, there is a bit of humor in this. At one point, a slave steals a lottery ticket that calls for the bearer's tongue to be burned off, which is the same penalty as for stealing a lottery ticket. The public then fight over whether the slave should be punished because it is the penalty for stealing or because it is what the ticket decreed.

title: The Lottery in Babylon


text:
Quantum Psychology

Quantum Psychology: How Brain Software Programs You & Your World is a book written by science-fiction writer Robert Anton Wilson, originally published in 1990. It deals with what Wilson himself calls "quantum psychology," which is not a field within academic psychology.

Some consider Quantum Psychology a follow-up to Wilson's earlier volume Prometheus Rising, mainly for the presence of practical exercises to demonstrate its concepts at the end of each chapter (this time intended for groups rather than a lone reader). It focuses primarily on the metaphysical and epistemological problems of Aristotelean reasoning and its use in everyday language, covering E-Prime (Wilson wrote the book in E-Prime) and how it addresses many of the semantic (and resulting perceptual) "spooks" that common language lets in.

It also covers psychosomatic healing and a possible explanation for it; non-local effects in quantum physics (Bell's theorem) and the theories of David Bohm; and a brief recap of the Timothy Leary eightfold consciousness theory of human consciousness which Prometheus Rising covers in greater detail.

title: Quantum Psychology


text:
List of geological features on Tethys

This is a list of named geological features on Tethys. Tethyan geological features are named after people and places in Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey.

Chasmata
There are two named chasmata on Tethys.

Montes
The central complex of the Odysseus basin is called Scheria Montes.

title: List of geological features on Tethys


text:
Talk:The Moon Is Down (album)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Moon Is Down.jpg
Image:The Moon Is Down.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Moon Is Down (album)


text:
User:Ianneub

I'm Ian Neubert, a computer system administrator, from the state of California, in the United States of America. I like to call myself a "Jack of all trades" related to computers, a computer journeyman if you will.

title: User:Ianneub


text:
Talk:How to Start a Fire

Fair use rationale for Image:How To Start A Firef.jpg
Image:How To Start A Firef.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:How to Start a Fire


text:
User:172/Topic Editorial Committees (proposal)

See for past discussion of a similar idea.

(The sample template is under construction)

Topics
Astronomy – Biology – Chemistry – Computer science – Earth science – Ecology – Mathematics – Physics – Statistics

Chairperson
Post vacant

Membership (editorial board consists of the chairs of each editorial sub-committee)

 * 1) Post vacant, Astronomy Committee Chair
 * 2) Post vacant, Biology Committee Chair
 * 3) Post vacant, Chemistry Committee Chair
 * 4) Post vacant, Computer Science Committee Chair
 * 5) Post vacant, Earth Science Committee Chair
 * 6) Post vacant, Ecology Committee Chair
 * 7) Post vacant, Mathematics Committee Chair
 * 8) Post vacant, Physics Committee Chair
 * 9) Post vacant, Statistics Committee Chair

Sub-committees (# of sub-committee members not fixed)

 * Astronomy Committee
 * Biology Committee
 * Chemistry Committee
 * Computer Science Committee
 * Earth Science Committee
 * Ecology Committee
 * Mathematics Committee
 * Physics Committee
 * Statistics Committee

Topics
Agriculture – Architecture – Business – Communication – Education – Engineering – Family and consumer science – Government – Health science – Law – Library and information science – ] – Public affairs – Software engineering – Technology – Transport

Chairperson
Post vacant

Membership (editorial board consists of the chairs of each editorial sub-committee)

 * 1) Post vacant, Agriculture Committee Chair
 * 2) Post vacant, Architecture Committee Chair
 * 3) Post vacant, Business Committee Chair
 * 4) Post vacant, Communication Committee Chair
 * 5) Post vacant, Education Committee Chair
 * 6) Post vacant, Engineering Committee Chair
 * 7) Post vacant, Family and Consumer science Committee Chair
 * 8) Post vacant, Government Committee Chair
 * 9) Post vacant, Health Science Committee Chair
 * 10) Post vacant, Law Committee Chair
 * 11) Post vacant, Library and Information Science Committee Chair
 * 12) Post vacant, Public Affairs Committee Chair
 * 13) Post vacant, Software Engineering Committee Chair
 * 14) Post vacant, Technology Committee Chair
 * 15) Post vacant, Transport Committee Chair

Sub-committees (# of sub-committee members not fixed)

 * Agriculture Committee
 * Architecture Committee
 * Business Committee
 * Communication Committee
 * Education Committee
 * Engineering Committee
 * Family and Consumer science Committee
 * Government Committee
 * Health Science Committee
 * Law Committee
 * Library and Information Science Committee
 * Public Affairs Committee
 * Software Engineering Committee
 * Technology Committee
 * Transport Committee

Topics
Anthropology – Archaeology – Economics – Geography – History – Linguistics – Mythology – Philosophy – Political Science – Psychology – Sociology

Chairperson
Post vacant

Membership (editorial board consists of the chairs of each editorial sub-committee)

 * 1) Post vacant, Anthropology Committee Chair
 * 2) Post vacant, Archaeology Committee Chair
 * 3) Post vacant, Economics Committee Chair
 * 4) Post vacant, Geography Committee Chair
 * 5) Post vacant, History Committee Chair
 * 6) Post vacant, Linguistics Committee Chair
 * 7) Post vacant, Philosophy Committee Chair
 * 8) Post vacant, Political Science Committee Chair
 * 9) Post vacant, Psychology Committee Chair
 * 10) Post vacant, Sociology Committee Chair

Sub-committees (# of sub-committee members not fixed)

 * Anthropology Committee
 * Archaeology Committee
 * Economics Committee
 * Geography Committee
 * Wikipedia:History Committee
 * Linguistics Committee
 * Philosophy Committee
 * Wikipedia:Political Science Committee
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Gerhard Klopfer

Gerhard Klopfer (18 February 1905 – 29 January 1987) was a lawyer and a senior official in the Nazi Party who, as the State Secretary in the Party Chancellery, was Martin Bormann's chief deputy. He was also an SS-Gruppenführer. He participated in the Wannsee Conference that drew up plans for the implementation of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question. He subsequently denied all knowledge of the Holocaust and never was prosecuted.

Early life and education
Klopfer was born the son of a farmer at Schreibersdorf (today, Pisarzowice) in the Prussian Province of Silesia. He attended the local Gymnasium and received his Abitur in 1923. He studied law and economics at the University of Breslau (today, the University of Wrocław) and the University of Jena. After passing his first state legal examination in 1927, he wrote his doctoral dissertation in 1929, received his doctorate of law degree and completed his legal clerkship in Breslau. In 1931, he passed his second state legal examination in Berlin and started working as a junior judge at Düsseldorf.

Government and Party posts
When the Nazis came to power in 1933, he joined the Nazi Party on 1 April (membership number 1,706,842) and the Party's paramilitary unit, the Sturmabteilung (SA), shortly afterward. On 1 November 1933, he was named as a state prosecutor in Düsseldorf and, on 1 December, he became a Referent (consultant) in the Prussian Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Forests under Walther Darré. He was promoted to Regierungsrat (Government Councilor) in August 1934 and, in December, he joined the Gestapo (Secret State Police). He also became a member of Hans Frank's Academy for German Law and served on its Police Law Committee. On 18 April 1935, he joined the staff of Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess at the Party headquarters in Munich. As an Oberregierungsrat (Senior Government Councilor), he initially headed the Party component overseeing the Reich Interior Ministry. In 1938, he became responsible for the seizing of Jewish businesses in the Aryanization process, for questions about mixed marriages between Gentile and Jewish Germans, and for general questions about occupation of foreign states. By April 1941, he had advanced to the rank of Ministerialdirektor and headed Department III that oversaw coordination between the Party and all state components. His field of responsibility included coordinating work with all the ministries and finalizing legislation. He became a close confidant of Martin Bormann who, on 12 May 1941, became head of the Party Chancellery, the successor organization to Hess' office.

Along with Helmuth Friedrichs, Klopfer was the highest-ranking official under Bormann. This position gave him extensive power of patronage within the Nazi Party, as Bormann often left appointments to party positions to Klopfer and Friedrichs. Klopfer represented Bormann at the Wannsee Conference on 20 January 1942, in which the details of the Final Solution of the Jewish Question were formalised, policies that culminated in the Holocaust. On 22 November 1942, Adolf Hitler appointed him to the position of State Secretary of the Party Chancellery. Klopfer was also responsible as signatory for a final call to arms, including the under-aged and the elderly from 16 to 60 years of age, to serve in the Volkssturm, the Nazi Party militia, during the final months of the Second World War.

SS membership
In addition to his Party positions, Klopfer was also a member of the Schutzstaffel (SS). He joined the organization in July 1935 (SS number 272,227) where he first was assigned to the SD Main Office and would later join the Reich Security Main Office. Commissioned as an officer on 15 September 1935, he rose rapidly through the ranks and attained his final promotion to SS-Gruppenführer on 9 November 1944.

Post-war life
As the Red Army closed in on Berlin in April 1945, Klopfer fled west from the city. He went into hiding under an assumed name but, on March 1, 1946, he was discovered, arrested and interned in Munich by the Counterintelligence Corps. He testified as a witness at the Ministries Trial in Nuremberg in 1948. He himself was charged with war crimes but denied all knowledge of the Holocaust. The case against him was dropped for lack of evidence and because it was deemed he did not have enough power to have influenced the Nazi policy on the Holocaust.

After his release, Klopfer underwent a denazification process by a German tribunal in March 1949 and was classified as a "minor offender" (category III), receiving a 2000 Reichsmark fine and three years probation. He found work as a carpenter until becoming a tax advisor in the city of Ulm in 1952 and was readmitted to the practice of law in 1956. Another investigation into Klopfer's participation in the Wannsee Conference that was initiated by the Ulm public prosecutor's office in September 1960 was closed on 29 January 1962 on the basis that "there was no way the accused could have prevented or obstructed the implementation of the mass murder program". When he died in 1987, Klopfer was the last surviving attendee of the Wannsee Conference. When he died, his family published a death notice that celebrated "a fulfilled life that was to the benefit of all those who came under his sphere of influence". This caused a public outcry and was denounced by many as an insult to all victims of the Nazi regime.

Fictional portrayals
Klopfer was portrayed by Günter Spörrle in the German film Die Wannseekonferenz (1984), by Ian McNeice in the BBC/HBO film Conspiracy (2001) and by Fabian Busch in the German film Die Wannseekonferenz (2022).

title: Gerhard Klopfer


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Jasmonate

Jasmonate (JA) and its derivatives are lipid-based plant hormones that regulate a wide range of processes in plants, ranging from growth and photosynthesis to reproductive development. In particular, JAs are critical for plant defense against herbivory and plant responses to poor environmental conditions and other kinds of abiotic and biotic challenges. Some JAs can also be released as volatile organic compounds (VOCs) to permit communication between plants in anticipation of mutual dangers.

History
The isolation of methyl jasmonate (MeJA) from jasmine oil derived from Jasminum grandiflorum led to the discovery of the molecular structure of jasmonates and their name in 1962 while jasmonic acid itself was isolated from Lasiodiplodia theobromae by Alderidge et al in 1971.

Biosynthesis
Biosynthesis is reviewed by Acosta and Farmer 2010, Wasternack and Hause 2013, and Wasternack and Song 2017. Jasmonates (JA) are oxylipins, i.e. derivatives of oxygenated fatty acid. They are biosynthesized from linolenic acid in chloroplast membranes. Synthesis is initiated with the conversion of linolenic acid to 12-oxo-phytodienoic acid (OPDA), which then undergoes a reduction and three rounds of oxidation to form (+)-7-iso-JA, jasmonic acid. Only the conversion of linolenic acid to OPDA occurs in the chloroplast; all subsequent reactions occur in the peroxisome.

JA itself can be further metabolized into active or inactive derivatives. Methyl JA (MeJA) is a volatile compound that is potentially responsible for interplant communication. JA conjugated with amino acid isoleucine (Ile) results in JA-Ile ((+)-7-iso-jasmonoyl-L-isoleucine), which Fonseca et al 2009 finds is involved in most JA signaling - see also the review by Katsir et al 2008. However Van Poecke & Dicke 2003 finds Arabidopsiss emission of volatiles to not require JA-Ile, nor VanDoorn et al 2011 for Solanum nigrums herbivore resistance. JA undergoes decarboxylation to give cis-jasmone.

Function
Although jasmonate (JA) regulates many different processes in the plant, its role in wound response is best understood. Following mechanical wounding or herbivory, JA biosynthesis is rapidly activated, leading to expression of the appropriate response genes. For example, in the tomato, wounding produces defense molecules that inhibit leaf digestion in guts of insects. Another indirect result of JA signaling is the volatile emission of JA-derived compounds. MeJA on leaves can travel airborne to nearby plants and elevate levels of transcripts related to wound response. In general, this emission can further upregulate JA biosynthesis and cell signaling, thereby inducing nearby plants to prime their defenses in case of herbivory.

JAs have also been implicated in cell death and leaf senescence. JA can interact with many kinases and transcription factors associated with senescence. JA can also induce mitochondrial death by inducing the accumulation of reactive oxygen species (ROSs). These compounds disrupt mitochondria membranes and compromise the cell by causing apoptosis, or programmed cell death. JAs' roles in these processes are suggestive of methods by which the plant defends itself against biotic challenges and limits the spread of infections.

JA and its derivatives have also been implicated in plant development, symbiosis, and a host of other processes included in the list below.
 * By studying mutants overexpressing JA, one of the earliest discoveries made was that JA inhibits root growth. The mechanism behind this event is still not understood, but mutants in the COI1-dependent signaling pathway tend to show reduced inhibition, demonstrating that the COI1 pathway is somehow necessary for inhibiting root growth.
 * JA plays many roles in flower development. Mutants in JA synthesis or in JA signaling in Arabidopsis present with male sterility, typically due to delayed development. The same genes promoting male fertility in Arabidopsis promote female fertility in tomatoes. Overexpression of 12-OH-JA can also delay flowering.
 * JA and MeJA inhibit the germination of nondormant seeds and stimulate the germination of dormant seeds.
 * High levels of JA encourage the accumulation of storage proteins; genes encoding vegetative storage proteins are JA responsive. Specifically, tuberonic acid, a JA derivative, induces the formation of tubers.
 * JAs also play a role in symbiosis between plants and microorganisms; however, its precise role is still unclear. JA currently appears to regulate signal exchange and nodulation regulation between legumes and rhizobium. On the other hand, elevated JA levels appear to regulate carbohydrate partitioning and stress tolerance in mycorrhizal plants.
 * JAs have been implicated in the development of carnivorous plants such as the Venus flytrap. Research suggests that evolutionary repurposing of the jasmonate signaling pathway, which mediates defense against herbivores in noncarnivorous plants, has supported the evolution of plant carnivory.  Jasmonates can be used to signal the closing of traps and to control the release of enzymes and nutrient transporters which are used in plant digestion. However, not all carnivorous plants rely on the jasmonate pathway in the same way. Butterworts differ significantly from  Venus flytraps and sundews, and may have developed methods of regulating digestive enzymes that are JA-independent.

Role in pathogenesis
Pseudomonas syringae causes bacterial speck disease in tomatoes by hijacking the plant's jasmonate (JA) signaling pathway. This bacteria utilizes a type III secretion system to inject a cocktail of viral effector proteins into host cells.

One of the molecules included in this mixture is the phytotoxin coronatine (COR). JA-insensitive plants are highly resistant to P. syringae and unresponsive to COR; additionally, applying MeJA was sufficient to rescue virulence in COR mutant bacteria. Infected plants also expressed downstream JA and wound response genes but repressed levels of pathogenesis-related (PR) genes. All these data suggest COR acts through the JA pathway to invade host plants. Activation of a wound response is hypothesized to come at the expense of pathogen defense. By activating the JA wound response pathway, P. syringae could divert resources from its host's immune system and infect more effectively.

Plants produce N-acylamides that confer resistance to necrotrophic pathogens by activating JA biosynthesis and signalling. Arachidonic acid (AA), the counterpart of the JA precursor α-LeA occurring in metazoan species but not in plants, is perceived by plants and acts through an increase in JA levels concomitantly with resistance to necrotrophic pathogens. AA is an evolutionarily conserved signalling molecule that acts in plants in response to stress similar to that in animal systems.

Cross talk with other defense pathways
While the jasmonate (JA) pathway is critical for wound response, it is not the only signaling pathway mediating defense in plants. To build an optimal yet efficient defense, the different defense pathways must be capable of cross talk to fine-tune and specify responses to abiotic and biotic challenges.

One of the best studied examples of JA cross talk occurs with salicylic acid (SA). SA, a hormone, mediates defense against pathogens by inducing both the expression of pathogenesis-related genes and systemic acquired resistance (SAR), in which the whole plant gains resistance to a pathogen after localized exposure to it.

Wound and pathogen response appear to be interact negatively. For example, silencing phenylalanine ammonia lyase (PAL), an enzyme synthesizing precursors to SA, reduces SAR but enhances herbivory resistance against insects. Similarly, overexpression of PAL enhances SAR but reduces wound response after insect herbivory. Generally, it has been found that pathogens living in live plant cells are more sensitive to SA-induced defenses, while herbivorous insects and pathogens that derive benefit from cell death are more susceptible to JA defenses. Thus, this trade-off in pathways optimizes defense and saves plant resources.

Cross talk also occurs between JA and other plant hormone pathways, such as those of abscisic acid (ABA) and ethylene (ET). These interactions similarly optimize defense against pathogens and herbivores of different lifestyles. For example, MYC2 activity can be stimulated by both JA and ABA pathways, allowing it to integrate signals from both pathways. Other transcription factors such as ERF1 arise as a result of JA and ET signaling. All these molecules can act in combination to activate specific wound response genes.

Finally, cross talk is not restricted for defense: JA and ET interactions are critical in development as well, and a balance between the two compounds is necessary for proper apical hook development in Arabidopsis seedlings. Still, further research is needed to elucidate the molecules regulating such cross talk.

Mechanism of signaling
In general, the steps in jasmonate (JA) signaling mirror that of auxin signaling: the first step comprises E3 ubiquitin ligase complexes, which tag substrates with ubiquitin to mark them for degradation by proteasomes. The second step utilizes transcription factors to effect physiological changes. One of the key molecules in this pathway is JAZ, which serves as the on-off switch for JA signaling. In the absence of JA, JAZ proteins bind to downstream transcription factors and limit their activity. However, in the presence of JA or its bioactive derivatives, JAZ proteins are degraded, freeing transcription factors for expression of genes needed in stress responses.

Because JAZ did not disappear in null coi1 mutant plant backgrounds, protein COI1 was shown to mediate JAZ degradation. COI1 belongs to the family of highly conserved F-box proteins, and it recruits substrates for the E3 ubiquitin ligase SCFCOI1. The complexes that ultimately form are known as SCF complexes. These complexes bind JAZ and target it for proteasomal degradation. However, given the large spectrum of JA molecules, not all JA derivatives activate this pathway for signaling, and the range of those participating in this pathway is unknown. Thus far, only JA-Ile has been shown to be necessary for COI1-mediated degradation of JAZ11. JA-Ile and structurally related derivatives can bind to COI1-JAZ complexes and promote ubiquitination and thus degradation of the latter.

This mechanistic model raises the possibility that COI1 serves as an intracellular receptor for JA signals. Recent research has confirmed this hypothesis by demonstrating that the COI1-JAZ complex acts as a co-receptor for JA perception. Specifically, JA-Ile binds both to a ligand-binding pocket in COI1 and to a 20 amino-acid stretch of the conserved Jas motif in JAZ. This JAZ residue acts as a plug for the pocket in COI1, keeping JA-Ile bound in the pocket. Additionally, Sheard et al 2010 co-purified and subsequently removed inositol pentakisphosphate (InsP5) from COI1, demonstrating InsP5 to be a necessary component of the co-receptor and playing a role in potentiating the co-receptor complex. Sheard's results may show varying binding specificity for various SCF$COI1$-InsP$5$-JAZ complexes.

Once freed from JAZ, transcription factors can activate genes needed for a specific JA response. The best-studied transcription factors acting in this pathway belong to the MYC family of transcription factors, which are characterized by a basic helix-loop-helix (bHLH) DNA binding motif. These factors (of which there are three, MYC2, 3, and 4) tend to act additively. For example, a plant that has only lost one myc becomes more susceptible to insect herbivory than a normal plant. A plant that has lost all three will be as susceptible to damage as coi1 mutants, which are completely unresponsive to JA and cannot mount a defense against herbivory. However, while all these MYC molecules share functions, they vary greatly in expression patterns and transcription functions. For instance, MYC2 has a greater effect on root growth compared to MYC3 or MYC4.

Additionally, MYC2 will loop back and regulate JAZ expression levels, leading to a negative feedback loop. These transcription factors all have different impacts on JAZ levels after JA signaling. JAZ levels in turn affect transcription factor and gene expression levels. In other words, on top of activating different response genes, the transcription factors can vary JAZ levels to achieve specificity in response to JA signals.

title: Jasmonate


text:
Brassinosteroid

Brassinosteroids (BRs or less commonly BS) are a class of polyhydroxysteroids that have been recognized as a sixth class of plant hormones and may have utility as anticancer drugs for treating endocrine-responsive cancers by inducing apoptosis of cancer cells and inhibiting cancerous growth. These brassinosteroids were first explored during the 1970s when Mitchell et al. reported promotion in stem elongation and cell division by the treatment of organic extracts of rapeseed (Brassica napus) pollen. Brassinolide was the first brassinosteroid to be isolated in 1979, when pollen from Brassica napus was shown to promote stem elongation and cell divisions, and the biologically active molecule was isolated. The yield of brassinosteroids from 230 kg of Brassica napus pollen was only 10 mg. Since their discovery, over 70 BR compounds have been isolated from plants.

Biosynthesis
The BR is biosynthesised from campesterol. The biosynthetic pathway was elucidated by Japanese researchers and later shown to be correct through the analysis of BR biosynthesis mutants in Arabidopsis thaliana, tomatoes, and peas. The sites for BR synthesis in plants have not been experimentally demonstrated. One well-supported hypothesis is that all tissues produce BRs, since BR biosynthetic and signal transduction genes are expressed in a wide range of plant organs, and short distance activity of the hormones also supports this. Experiments have shown that long distance transport is possible and that the flow is from the base to the tips (acropetal), but it is not known if this movement is biologically relevant.

Functions
BRs have been shown to be involved in numerous plant processes:
 * Promotion of cell expansion and cell elongation; work with auxins to do so.
 * It has an unclear role in cell division and cell wall regeneration.
 * Promotion of vascular differentiation; BR signal transduction has been studied during vascular differentiation.
 * Is necessary for pollen elongation for pollen tube formation.
 * Acceleration of senescence in dying tissue cultured cells; delayed senescence in BR mutants supports that this action may be biologically relevant.
 * Can provide some protection to plants during chilling and drought stress.

Extract from the plant Lychnis viscaria contains a relatively high amount of Brassinosteroids. Lychnis viscaria increases the disease resistance of surrounding plants.

24-Epibrassinolide (EBL), a brassinosteroid isolated from Aegle marmelos Correa (Rutaceae), was further evaluated for the antigenotoxicity against maleic hydrazide (MH)-induced genotoxicity in Allium cepa chromosomal aberration assay. It was shown that the percentage of chromosomal aberrations induced by maleic hydrazide (0.01%) declined significantly with 24-epibrassinolide treatment.

BRs have been reported to counteract both abiotic and biotic stress in plants. Application of brassinosteroids to cucumbers was demonstrated to increase the metabolism and removal of pesticides, which could be beneficial for reducing the human ingestion of residual pesticides from non-organically grown vegetables.

BRs have also been reported to have a variety of effects when applied to rice seeds (Oryza sativa L.). Seeds treated with BRs were shown to reduce the growth inhibitory effect of salt stress. When the developed plants fresh weight was analyzed the treated seeds outperformed plants grown on saline and non-saline medium however when the dry weight was analyzed BR treated seeds only outperformed untreated plants that were grown on saline medium. When dealing with tomatoes (Lycopersicon esculentum) under salt stress the concentration of chlorophyll a and chlorophyll b were decreased and thus pigmentation was decreased as well. BR treated rice seeds considerably restored the pigment level in plants that were grown on saline medium when compared to non-treated plants under the same conditions.

Signalling mechanism
BRs are perceived at the cell membrane by a co-receptor complex, comprising brassinosteroid insensitive-1 (BRI1) and BRI1-associated receptor kinase 1 (BAK1). BRI1 acts as a kinase, but in the absence of BR its action is inhibited by another protein, BRI1 kinase inhibitor 1 (BKI1). When BR binds to the BRI1:BAK1 complex, BKI1 is released, and a phosphorylation cascade is triggered which results in the de-activation of another kinase, brassinosteroid insensitive 2 (BIN2). BIN2 and its close homologues inhibit several transcription factors. The inhibition of BIN2 by BR releases these transcription factors to bind to DNA and to enact certain developmental pathways.

Agricultural uses
BR might reveal to have a prominent interest in the role of horticultural crops. Based on extensive research BR has the ability to improve the quantity and quality of horticultural crops and protect plants against many stresses that can be present in the local environment. With the many advances in technology dealing with the synthesis of more stable synthetic analogues and the genetic manipulation of cellular BR activity, using BR in the production of horticultural crops has become a more practical and hopeful strategy for improving crop yields and success. The application of BR successfully alleviate drought stress and improve wheat growth under deficit irrigation system. It had further positive impacts on increasing plant growth parameters via their integral role in decreasing oxidative stress indicators.

BR application has demonstrated efficacy against Phytophthora infestans, mildew on cucumber, viral diseases, and various others.

BR could also help bridge the gap of the consumers' health concerns and the producers need for growth. A major benefit of using BR is that it does not interfere with the environment because they act in a natural way. Since it is a “plant strengthening substance” and it is natural, BR application would be more favorable than pesticides and does not contribute to the co-evolution of pests.

In Germany, extract from the plant is allowed for use as a "plant strengthening substance."<ref name="Roth-et-al-2000

Detection and chemical analysis
BRs can be detected by gas chromatography mass spectrometry and bioassays. There are some bioassays that can detect BRs in the plant such as the bean second internode elongation assay and the rice leaf lamina inclination test.

title: Brassinosteroid