text:
Talk:Einstürzende Neubauten

Raymond Watts
Raymond Watts worked on the production of the album Haus Der Lüge, alongside Gareth Jones. Tonylamaboots 07:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

He was also their live engineer for a while and recorded some demos with them around the 'Richterskala' period. And has his own 'Pig' project.

Mufti?
Is Mufti still a member of e.n? I don't think so. Didn't he leave the band a couple of years ago? /Gusman

Mufti is FM Einheit's nickname, and he left the band in 1995, during the recording of Ende Neu. Tonylamaboots 07:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation
The following was left on my (Camembert) user page. I could have a good go at an answer, but wouldn't be entirely confident about it (and wouldn't, in any case, really know how to represent it), so rather than mislead, I thought it better to copy the question here:

 * Hello. Im only asking you this cause you are one one the only users on the talk page for Einstürzende Neubauten. Without wishing to sound like an ignoramous, I would like to ask how you pronounce this bands name in English as I cant find this information anywhere. Thankyou. Motown Junkie

 * This might get you pretty close. First word: "Ein" (as in Einstein), "stuerz" (as in Stewart's or Stuart's, pretty close), "ende" (end-ah).  Second word: "Neu" (noy as in annoying), "bau" (bow as in nautical terms or taking a bow), "ten" (as in 10).  Ein-stewart's-end-ah Noy-bow-ten.  Yeah.  --Iosif 04:24, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Wow, that's awesome! I would've been all IPA, but that doesn't help the normal person anymore than explaining umlauts and diphthongs. Ausgezeichnet! Khirad 18:48, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Problem is with analogies is that they only work with certain accents. Such as 'Stewarts' doesn't work with any British accents. But I suppose they are better than nothing at all.

Eye-n stoortsenduh Noibah-w-ten is probably easier for a British speaker to follow. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.5.223 (talk) 10:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Well there are some videos on youtube that teach how to pronounce it. I'd say that it is (I speak spanish) "Ain-shtug-tsende-Noi-bau-ten" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.95.104.100 (talk) 17:32, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Try for the "stuart" bit, pronouncing "stwaw" like somebody saying "straw" with a speech impediment. Or just watch lots of Youtube videos that the band says their name Should help. --Martinkalashnikov (talk) 11:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

'St' in German is pronounced 'sht' so 'Stuart' etc are not accurate representations... 'shtirts' (to rhyme with 'shirts') is nearer to 'Stürz' Vauxhall1964 (talk) 12:38, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Congress Hall an E.N.
I am coming from the german wikiepage on E.N. and they say, the name had already been chosen before the roof of the congress had crushed. So the german Wikipedia states, the crushing of the roof only gave a new refernce to the name. So, who's got the point? - HellRaiser

I think that is addressed in the interview book No Beauty Without Danger (Keine Schoenheit Ohne Gefahr) / Was Ist Moeglich (What is possible). I'll see what I can find. --Iosif 15:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I've changed the offending sentence. See from the official HKW website. They even make mention of Einstürzende Neubauten in the last sentence.--GrafZahl 14:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Side Projects
Shouldn't there be at least a reference to Ammer Einheit? I agree about the genre thing too, but not completely. Saying they are Industrial is like saying Dead Can Dance are goth, but sometimes the genre labels have more to do with the primary audience than music itself. It would be really odd to not say anything about the Industrial label. There are many, many groups that defy classification. I think it is POV to claim that Einstürzende Neubauten is somehow better or more different or more revolutionary than any other band - though I may feel this is mostly true - I will concede my feeling is POV. And for the newcomer, they should at least be told that the band has influenced Industrial bands today. But hey, what about those side projects?! Blixa was awesome in Nick Cave, and Ammer Einhet is, well, like later E.N. especially - essentially indescribable. I hope to one day write an F.M. Einheit article, but I'm sure others could do a better job than I. Khirad 19:04, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how a reference to Ammer Einheit would hurt. Nor do I have a problem saying something like "some people think of E.N. as industrial." However, I think it is ultimately non-POV and doing a better service to accurately describe the fact that E.N. is not easily categorized. --Iosif 15:10, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

 * It may not be easily categorized, but it is often categorized as industrial. In fact, if you ask people to name 5 important industrial bands, EN is almost invariably one of them (along with probably Throbbing Gristle and Skinny Puppy).  Coil is another hard-to-categorize group that is sometimes called industrial. --Delirium 02:13, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

What does the logo mean and where does it come from?
Should be in the article! 68.251.151.247 21:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

—Asatruer 04:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If there is a verifiable and reliable source to be cited, yes it should.

Quote from a Letter from F.M. Einheit as cited in the Band-Guide by Kirsten Borchardt from the german Hannibal-press: "In a book about symbols of stone age we found a sign that stood for the sun and one for a human who radiates energy. The human figure´s head is a simplified version of the sun symbol, which leads to the conlusion, it probably depicts a wizard, medecine man or people with magic powers." Sorry for any translation errors. 195.46.247.152 20:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Interim Link Incorrect
The link for the Interim EP leads to a page about a British band called "The Fall"... 206.192.68.118 03:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Einstürzende - verb or adjective
as a native speaker: "einstürzende" can be a verb (present participle) and an adjective. 217.227.182.87 19:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well since the word has a gender/plural marker(and erm, an adjectival particple and is not parsable as a noun) it can only be an adjective. But it's an adjective related to the verb 'einstuerzen.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.5.223 (talk) 10:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

So am I a native speaker and I can say: It is neither a verb nor an adjective. The term "einstürzende" is the gerund of the verb "einstürzen" (German for to collapse). So "Einstürzende Neubauten" literally means "collapsing new buildings". ;) --Roblion (talk) 21:52, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

A gerund functions as a noun. So it is clearly not a gerund by any stretch of the imagination. In English translation it is clearly an adjective of the progressive variety. In German I believe it is an adjective of the partizip-praesens variety. Quite why anyone thinks the parsing of the phrase is at all of any relevance to the translation is beyond me anyway since there is absolutely no controversy in the choice of 'collapsing' at all!??? 90.196.108.46 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 12:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC).

Neutrality and Unnecessary info
There's a lot of non-neutral stuff in this article, particularly in the opening paragraphs, I will have a sift through it but obviously if anyone else can help make it neutral than feel free.

Also removing this:

"The title song of Silence is sexy is about tinnitus, a perpetual ringing in one's ears, often caused by exposure to loud noise.."

Found it in the band history section. It doesn't seem particularly relevant and is also unsourced.Liquidcow 10:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Influenced
If you can't cite a source where a band themselves cite EN as an influence, then the band shouldn't be listed in a section labeled "Influenced". I couldn't find an interview where EN were quoted as influences, for example. -- Xinit 00:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you on this point. Alex ex 18:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I read somewhere way back Bargeld saying he listened to lots of Kraut rock and Pink Floyd when he was younger. But he's notorious for winding up journalists and even went through a period of recycling Lou Reed interview responses! I think the idea of influences for something so original is a bit irrelevant anyway; not as though there is anything we can point to by way of evolution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.252.24 (talk) 15:04, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Category:Einstürzende Neubauten
Why was this category deleted? There were two major subcategories in it (members and albums) + film "Halber Mensch" + this article + Einstürzende Neubauten logo. Does anybody else miss this category? Alex ex 18:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Language corrections
Band name

I have always been a bit uncomfortable with the translation "new buildings" because it connotes nothing modern in English. As I understand it 'Neubau' is a particular reference to very modern architecture. I'm not clever enough to know what the English equivalent is.

1980 (the beginning)

"a symbol of human with a circle in the head", should that not be 'dot' instead of "circle"? I won't be so pedantic to debate whether it really is a symbol, since I think people can understand what is meant anyway.

"has been placed on almost every one of the band's productions" The word "productions" makes no sense in English, perhaps 'products' is what is meant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.5.223 (talk) 10:34, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

"Other personalities" should be "other personnel" and "named for" should be "named after"... a half decent bilingual dictionary and a little bit of effort should avoid basic errors like these. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.131.196 (talk) 15:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

"The band name is usually translated into English as "Collapsing New Buildings". "Collapsing" here is a participial adjective, not the progressive participle of a transitive verb, i.e. the intended meaning is "buildings that are collapsing". Neubauten " I'm a linguist and even I can't understand what this is supposed to mean.

Finally removed the nonsensical and innacrate sentence regarding the meaning of "einstuerzende". 80.41.196.66 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC).

In English syntax the (non-modal) verb always follows the subject anyway (so the excludes the verb class anyway) and in German the word 'einstuerzende' is gender and case marked so it can't be a verb. I think the notion of 'participle' has fallen into disuse for either 'progressive' or '-ING form'. 212.139.72.88 (talk) 16:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I have re-removed the pseudo linguistic gibberish in the 'band name section as it confused rubbish- there is actually no need to parse the adjective as it is totally clear what the meaning of collapsing is... apart from that as illustrated above the information is plain wrong. Please don't just undo it again without addressing the points raised here! 80.41.247.186 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:09, 26 July 2009 (UTC).
 * "Collapsing New Buildings" is ambiguous. It is not necessarily an adjective: "to collapse" means "to cause to collapse", not just "to cave in".  Whence comes the adjective "collapsible".  Now if it is correct that "the German word is gender and case marked so it can't be a verb", as above, that solves the ambiguity, and as such is a valuable addition to this article. - BalthCat (talk) 21:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

No disrespect but you must not be a native speaker of English or you are going out your way to be obtuse, as I can see that the adjective neatly translates to English and needs no confusing (and totally incorrect) linguistic verbiage.

It is totally unambiguous as you would have to be on acid to mistake the adjective for a verb, it really would be quite bizarre. And it is surely chicken & egg where the root of 'collapsible' comes from noun/verb. Buildings do not normally collapse for storage, so to suggest you need to make clear that collapsing is the usual association of disintegrating is just really really REALLY weird. It's like arguing you need make it clear that 'dropping money into a wishing well' doesn't mean 'wishing, (verb) 'well' (adverb).

Collapsing is so clearly an adjective (as it is in the German too), and so clearly a perfect translation of the German it needs no caveat nor footnote.

Oh and if collapsing in English is possible a verb can you explain what happened to the subject, or more weirdly the object... otherwise we seem to have a totally ungrammatical phrase?

The info is incorrect and just plain weird it adds nothing but confusion...

80.41.247.186 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Essentially everything you just wrote is incorrect:
 * I am a native speaker of English.
 * The German meaning has no bearing on the ambiguity of the English phrase.
 * It is ambiguous, as the verb "to collapse" also means "to cause to collapse", meaning that the sentence fragment "Collapsing new buildings" may in fact mean "to cause new buildings to collapse". Such as the usage "The earthquake collapsed the Golden Gate Bridge."
 * I made no suggestion that collapsing for storage was the meaning of "collapsing new buildings".
 * Your example sentence is complete, not a fragment like the translation. I would be correct if I said that "wishing well", without context, is ambiguous: I could be wishing you well, I could also be wishing effectively.
 * Since collapsing is NOT clearly an adjective, the fact that it is an adjective in German is highly useful information.
 * What happened to the subject, or the object? Uh, it's a fragment.  "Collapsing new buildings" is not a complete sentence with either meaning of collapsing.  - BalthCat (talk) 02:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

"It is ambiguous, as the verb "to collapse" also means "to cause to collapse" ", trust me, in the English, the correct translation is first thing anyone would think of, because logically buildings rarely actively collapse anything else or suffer from any other kind of collapse. It needs no more explanation than 'cold milk' would be read as meaning 'milk that is not hot' as opposed to 'emotionally detached milk'.

For someone to mistake 'collapsing new buildings' for a fragment would require a lot of LSD or a mental illness, because, again, in a natural setting such a fragment would not normally occur, it'd be practically ungrammatical.

When people ask me how I am I don't reply with an astrophysical then an evolutionary biological then a sociological reply just because it is merely "possible" that they "could" mean they wished to know how it is possible I exist. I give them a succinct appraisal of my state of well-being.

So to recap. Almost all English speakers would take 'collapsing' to be CLEARLY an adjective that denotes disintegration- because that's what building normally do, almost always do, when they are "collapsing".

And to be blunt, your grammatical explanation of how you see it made no sense to me whatsoever, and I am a linguist- which could mean it is way over my head in the field of computational generative parsing, or that it is total rubbish. Either way it's of no practical use.

80.41.198.133 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC).

Oh and have a look at this: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collapse it bears out my position that the first association is the correct one. 80.41.198.133 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Entry #6 at reference.com bears out my own position. I have not said, at any point, that the buildings are causing anything to collapse.  In the meaning I am referring to, an unstated force (subject) is causing the buildings (object) to collapse.  "New buildings that are collapsing" is no less, and no more of a fragment than than "Causing new buildings to collapse".  Is this usage that unimaginable? Or are you actually arguing based on the likelihood of some one interpreting it in this fashion?  (Something that is entirely subjective, and is ASSISTED by pointing out it is obviously an adjective in German.)  Especially when it comes down to an industrial band, in which "causing buildings to collapse" is not entirely out of the question.  "We Are Collapsing New Buildings", etc. (And for a learned linguist you seem to have missed the standard of signing your post with four tildes.) - BalthCat (talk) 11:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes I am indeed saying it is so unlikely that anyone in English would perceive 'Collapsing New Buildings' as being 'Verb + Object' rather than 'Adjective + Subject' is so absurd it is incredible as assumption. V+O just doesn't even feel like natural English, and the naming conventions of bands usually has the noun as the subject: the Rolling Stones, the Beatles etc. to the point is always assumed to be the such.

...and that you had to dig down in the 6th entry for your alleged viable interpretation does little to erode my stance.

Yes, it is accurate to state that 'collapsing' is an adjective. I can meet you on that point- even if I don't agree that it needs to be stated. However, can we agree, that since stating it as an adjective all the other impenetrable linguistics guff that was there before can be left out? :-D 80.41.255.240 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Your own dig, pointing out it was the 6th entry, was unproductive considering the first five are grouped together as intransitive verbs. I did not say "it is accurate to state that 'collapsing' is an adjective."  While one meaning is an adjective, I've specifically said that the phrase is ambiguous in that "to cause to collapse" is a meaning of "to collapse".  Your claims that it is not are pretty much pointless, as the dictionary implies valid use, and another user thought it was unclear enough to insert an explanation.  The instant some one can find a good source that says the same thing as the "impenetrable linguistics guff" (ie: that in German it is clearly an adjective) I will be more than glad to make sure it stays. - 131.202.157.113 (talk) 15:34, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Here also specifically refers destructive collapse, specifically by earthquakes in the example. Or do you suggest that earthquakes are font of folding? - 131.202.157.113 (talk) 15:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

" "Collapsing" here is a participial adjective, not the progressive participle of a transitive verb, i.e. "buildings that are collapsing", rather than "causing new buildings to collapse" "

I'm sorry that really is impenetrable linguistics guff, it reads like pisstake of jargon.

Are we agreed that calling 'collapsing' an adjective is accurate (despite my Sprachgefeuhl telling me it isn't necessary to flag this up)? And if so then we are agreed that the guff above isn't necessary, because English speakers should implicitly understand what that means? If so, by all means alter the text to state that the collapsing part is (obviously) an adjective 80.41.255.240 (talk) 15:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * As I don't have a source to confirm it is indeed intended as an adjective (other than the above claims), I am not confident enough to add that to the article. (Which is why I haven't already done so.)  As for what is said there, I'm not sure how that is garbage.  The wikilinks direct me to the proper articles to explain.  "Collapsing" could be the progressive participle (-ing) or OF a transitive verb (to collapse) but, rather, he says it is an adjective.  Participle says that participles "often share properties with other parts of speech, in particular adjectives and nouns".  As such, "participial adjective" to me, means an adjective created from a participle, such as "A dancing cow" or "A skiing cow".  So... it appears to say exactly what I'm saying.  Perhaps you could explain it best? - 131.202.157.113 (talk) 16:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Again, your argument that it could be a verb is absurd; again it is convention in English that a loan noun in a band name subject- thus no explanation is required, as the ambiguity is remote; again, for the EN to be VS or VO is just soooo weird as a fragment as to be nigh on ungrammatical- and again way too remote a possibility to need disqualification.

Again, the adjective is quite clearly an adjective in German (you are a German speaker and you can't spot an adjective???), and it its status as anything but an adjective in English a highly obtuse and unlikely as an error.

Apart from that the term 'participle' is falling into disuse AFAIK and the terms '[tense]continuous] ' or 'ING form' are favoured, and again the sentence is so jargonistic as to add nothing useful- especially considering that the information isn't really necessary.

82.45.209.71 (talk) 09:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) You are wrong about it being absurd as a verb. I'm not some sort of crazy person to have wondered if it might mean "to collapse new buildings." 2) I never claimed to be German, or I would write the section myself.  3) Your last paragraph is the reason I suggested you write it.  Pretend you don't think I'm a lunatic for using it like a verb. - BalthCat (talk) 08:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

1.) As a native English speaker who can speak German well enough to spot an adjective, I can confidently say that 'collapsing' is without any doubt an adjective. 3.) I can't pretend that anyone who assumed that collapsing was an -ING verb was anything other than out their depth with English skills or cognitively on another plane. To competent English speakers the first assumption would be for the word to be an adjective denoting that it was the building itself collapsing, and that assumption would be correct. 80.41.228.173 (talk) 08:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, because artists never, ever, play with words. It's also grossly insulting to suggest that I am incompetent with my native language and/or "cognitively on another plane." - BalthCat (talk) 08:47, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * it's not an adjective, it's a continuous intransitive verb acting as an adjectival clause. also, when translating from german to english, the transitive verb for "collapsing" doesn't "word play" interchangeably with its intransitive counterpart.124.169.65.105 (talk) 03:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I can see how English speakers might misinterpret the translation, as sentence fragments are indeed sometimes used as band names (especially in metalcore), compare Breaking Benjamin, Killing Heidi or Asking Alexandria for similarly ambiguous names, while the title Asking Questions is clearly not referring to questions that are asking! :-) While Killing Jokes would presumably be about jokes that are killing (although you can kill a joke, metaphorically speaking), Biting Bullets and Chasing Shadows are certainly not about bullets that are biting (although inanimate objects can bite in a metaphorical way, just think of onions, not to mention humour) or shadows that are chasing ... ;-) In fact, I just thought of a great counterexample to the claim that band names of the form X-ing Y-s can only refer to Y as a subject rather than object: Smashing Pumpkins – the original form of the band name was without the article. The article was apparently deliberately added in order to provide wordplay, see this (for the purposes of Wikipedia, unfortunately, not quite reliable) source, alluding to the The Rolling Stones template. Oh, another one: Taking Back Sunday. Another one: Counting Crows – while crows are now known to be able to count, the name presumably refers to an English rhyme "...if you hang on to the flimsiness of anything, you might as well be standing there, counting crows...", see also Crow. So yeah, it is quite conceivable that an English speaker might be uncertain as to which interpretation is intended. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:04, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but since my beef is with a translation to the english i thought i would stick it with other similar ojections or issues that people have with displayed translations on the page.

My issue is this : A short time later, the band released the album Ende Neu ("Ending New") in 1996.

Ende is not a verb. It translated to: the end, or end. Certainly not ending.

This, to me, is just a straight up translation from german to english using a dictionary, i would presume, and getting it wrong.

This album name also plays with the two words. As in which came first? The chicken or the egg. You would be hard pressed, to find this combination of words in a natural setting.

I did not edit the original but wanted to voice my side of things, since i do speak the langauge and grew up over there till the age of 15. So my connection with the language is organic in nature and not derived by means of being educated in the language, at some school that is not in germany.

I think it would be ok to stick to a normal translation of End New. Or what i would use, which is, New End. The chicken or the egg saying should have an influence on how you see this album title.

My language skills are far better than my coding skills here on wiki so excuse me if this goes in the wrong place and feel free to move it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EnveeNV (talk • contribs) 07:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Jim Thirlwell / Foetus
Someone should source and mention that EN got their deal with Some Bizarre (a significant step in their career) with great help from Jim Thirlwell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.5.223 (talk) 10:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Labels
Some Bizzare the band's UK label (and arguably most important stage in their career) should be listed... as well as the various American and Japanese companies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.41.196.66 (talk) 08:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Editing for Clarity
I edited the last paragraph in the "early years" part of the "history" section to say "This band...." since it was not clear to me which band had "disbanded shortly after".124.169.65.105 (talk) 03:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

actual changes in band
Ash Wednesday is not playing with Einsturzende Neubauten anymore. Since 11/2014 they have new keyboard man - Felix Gebhardt. http://felixgebhard.com/einsturzende-neubauten-2017/

They released CD & Vinyl "Greatest Hits" (25.11.2016) - info: https://neubauten.org/en/releases/greatest-hits

question? doubts? mail me: yavorius (at) gazeta (dot) pl — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.197.221.5 (talk) 10:07, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

German Language Texts
Unsurprisingly this article has a lot of German language text. I've gone through and tagged all that I could see (and that could be tagged) for accessibility. However I anticipate that this will quickly be inadequate as this page is edited. I am watching the page and will try to keep up with it. But if others could endeavor to help out as well I think that it can be kept up to date and accessible. I have not added such tags to people names, even those that look to me to be German. I simply don't know how these people are pronouncing or wishing to be pronounced their names, so I do not feel confident in marking them as being German. If other people have reason to be more confident than I, I would be encouraging them to make the changes. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 17:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The problem with these tags is that they have the effect of italicizing the group's name, although it should not be in italics. Is there any way of keeping the tag but getting rid of the italics? --Viennese Waltz 08:05, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I figured it out. I added "italics=no" to the tag where it's the band name. --Viennese Waltz 08:29, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Moving Discography
Since the band's discography is so large, especially with live albums and the different kinds of albums they have released, would it be better to create a separate Discography page for them, with main studio albums left on the main article? Just a thought. GrecoRomanNut (talk) 19:42, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

I realise that some of this is written in someone's second language, but...
...what does this mean?

"The title came from a 1974 book by Leo Navratil, describing the drawings of Oswald Tschirtner. It was also a guest performer on Fad Gadget's "Collapsing New People" 7" single's B-side track Spoil The Child, recorded at Hansa Tonstudio, Berlin in November 1983."

duncanrmi (talk) 01:09, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Einstürzende Neubauten


text: Template:RTÉ

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template:RTÉ


text:
2003–04 in English football

The 2003–04 season was the 124th season of association football in England. Arsenal completed the season without losing a league match, becoming Premier League champions in the process. Leeds United avoided going into administration, but were unable to avoid relegation and lost their place in the Premier League - along with Leicester City and Wolverhampton Wanderers.

Norwich City won promotion to the Premier League as Champions after nine years in Division 1. They were joined by runners-up West Bromwich Albion and Crystal Palace, who beat West Ham United in the play-off final. Wimbledon completed their relocation to Milton Keynes and moved into the former England National Hockey Stadium, which would be used as a temporary home until a new stadium was built at Denbigh North. At the end of the season, following the Dons' relegation, club directors changed its name to Milton Keynes Dons. Bradford City and Walsall joined them in relegation to Football League One.

Plymouth Argyle were Division Two champions and ensured that they would be playing in the second tier of English football for the first time in 12 years. Queens Park Rangers joined them together with Brighton & Hove Albion who won the play-off. At the bottom, Rushden & Diamonds were relegated to Division Three along with Grimsby Town, who suffered a second consecutive relegation after losing the last game of the season. Notts County and Wycombe Wanderers were also relegated. In the same division, Oldham Athletic were in financial difficulties but they avoided going into administration after a takeover bid was confirmed.

Doncaster Rovers became Division Three champions to earn their second successive promotion, having been Conference play-off winners the previous season. They had not played above the league's lowest tier for nearly 20 years; they were joined by Hull City, Torquay United and play-off winners Huddersfield Town.

Carlisle United were relegated to the Conference from Division Three. They had spent all but two of the previous 17 seasons in the league's fourth tier. York City followed them out of the Football League after a poor second half of the season. Chester City and Shrewsbury Town were promoted to the Football League from the Football Conference.

Telford United, who had been members of the Conference for every season since its formation in 1979, went out of business at the end of a season in which they had reached the Fourth Round of the FA Cup. The club was quickly reformed as A.F.C. Telford United and joined the Northern Premier League.

Diary of the season

 * 26 June 2003: Marc-Vivien Foé, who scored 9 goals in 35 games on loan at Manchester City—and had previously had a spell with West Ham United between 1999 and 2000—collapsed and died during a FIFA Confederations Cup tie for Cameroon.
 * 1 July 2003: Liverpool signed defender Steve Finnan from Fulham for £3.6 million.
 * 2 July 2003: David Beckham completed his £25 million move from Manchester United to Real Madrid.
 * 3 July 2003: Birmingham City paid a club record £5.5 million for Blackburn Rovers midfielder David Dunn.
 * 9 July 2003: Liverpool signed Leeds United's Harry Kewell for £5 million.
 * 15 July 2003: Manchester United signed American goalkeeper Tim Howard from MetroStars for £2.3 million; Chelsea paid £6 million for 19-year-old West Ham defender Glen Johnson.
 * 16 July 2003: Chelsea signed Cameroon midfielder Geremi from Real Madrid for £7 million.
 * 21 July 2003: Chelsea signed Southampton defender Wayne Bridge for £7 million and Blackburn winger Damien Duff for a club record £17 million.
 * 30 July 2003: The Premier League was officially declared the richest football league in Europe.
 * 4 August 2003: The Premier League ruled out the possibility of Rangers and Celtic gaining membership.
 * 6 August 2003: Chelsea signed Juan Sebastián Verón from Manchester United for £15 million and Joe Cole from West Ham for £6.6 million.
 * 12 August 2003: Manchester United signed 18-year-old Portuguese winger Cristiano Ronaldo for £12.24 million from Sporting CP and Brazil's World Cup-winning midfielder Kléberson for £5.93 million from Atlético Paranaense.
 * 14 August 2003: Chelsea signed Romanian striker Adrian Mutu from Parma for £15.8million.
 * 25 August 2003: Chelsea signed Russian midfielder Alexei Smertin from Bordeaux for £3.45 million and immediately loaned him to Portsmouth for the season.
 * 26 August 2003: Chelsea signed Argentine striker Hernán Crespo from Inter Milan for £16.8 million.
 * 29 August 2003: Blackburn paid £7.5 million for Rangers and Scotland midfielder Barry Ferguson.
 * 31 August 2003: The first month of the season ended with Arsenal and Manchester United at the top of the league with three wins from their first three Premier League games, while their nearest challengers were Portsmouth (newly promoted), Manchester City and Chelsea. Meanwhile, Wolverhampton Wanderers lost the first three games of their first top flight campaign for 20 years; Bolton Wanderers and Middlesbrough completed the bottom three. The race to get into the Premier League was headed by West Bromwich Albion, who were a point ahead of their nearest rivals Reading and Sheffield United at the top of Division One. Wigan Athletic, Crystal Palace and West Ham completed the top six.
 * 1 September 2003: Chelsea signed Real Madrid and France midfielder Claude Makélélé for £16.6 million.
 * 21 September 2003: Tottenham Hotspur sacked Glenn Hoddle after two-and-a-half years as manager. Director of football David Pleat took temporary charge.
 * 27 September 2003: Wimbledon relocated to Milton Keynes where they would play at the National Hockey Stadium, but this was a temporary measure; there were plans to build a new 25,000-seat stadium at Denbigh North which was expected to be completed in either 2006 or 2007.
 * 30 September 2003: Arsenal led the Premier League, but their nearest challengers Chelsea and Manchester United were just a point behind. Surprise title contenders Birmingham City and Southampton completed the top five, but there was widespread doubt as to whether they could continue their good form and make a serious challenge to record their first-ever top division title. Wolverhampton Wanderers were still bottom and looking for their first win of the season; Newcastle United and Tottenham Hotspur completed the bottom three. Sheffield United led the way in Division One, a point ahead of former leaders West Brom. Wigan Athletic, Norwich City, Sunderland and West Ham occupied the play-off zone.
 * 31 October 2003: Chelsea were ahead of Arsenal at the top of the Premier League with equal goal difference but with more goals scored; Manchester United were a point behind in third place. Birmingham remained fourth, while Fulham moved into the top five at the expense of Southampton. Leicester City and Middlesbrough propped up the Premier League after an upturn in fortunes for Wolves and Tottenham; Leeds had slipped into the relegation zone as the mass sale of players to help pay off mounting debts took its toll on the field. Newcastle were in eighth place, just below Manchester City. West Brom were top of Division One, where Wigan were playing for the first time in their history. Norwich, Sheffield United, Sunderland and West Ham completed the top six. Ipswich Town were a single goal short of the play-off places.
 * 8 November 2003: Senior executives from the 20 Premier League clubs backed plans for clubs to be deducted ten points if they enter receivership.
 * 10 November 2003: Peter Reid was sacked after eight months as manager of Leeds United, who were bottom of the Premier League after losing 8 of their opening 12 games. Long-serving coach and former manager Eddie Gray took over on a temporary basis.
 * 30 November 2003: Chelsea lead the Premier League, one point ahead of Arsenal and four points ahead of Manchester United. Debt-ridden Leeds propped up the top flight, joined in the relegation zone by Wolves and Everton. West Brom and Norwich were top of Division One, followed by Sheffield United, Ipswich, Wigan and Reading.
 * 19 December 2003: Rio Ferdinand received an eight-month ban from football and a £50,000 fine as penalty for missing a drugs test on 22 September. The ban commenced on 19 January, though Ferdinand was intent on appealing against it.
 * 31 December 2003: Manchester United were leaders of the Premier League; their nearest contenders Arsenal (unbeaten) and Chelsea were four points behind. Charlton Athletic and Fulham completed the top five, with Liverpool and Newcastle close behind. Wolves and Leeds were bottom of the division; Everton were comfortably clear of the bottom three. Norwich held a six-point lead over West Brom at the top of Division One followed by Sheffield United, Sunderland, Ipswich and Wigan.
 * 9 January 2004: Gordon Strachan announced that he would not renew his contract as Southampton manager when it expired at the end of the season, amid speculation that he will return to his old club Leeds as their new manager.
 * 14 January 2004: Manchester City signed goalkeeper David James from West Ham for £2 million, prompting the retirement of 40-year-old David Seaman.
 * 23 January 2004: Manchester United signed Fulham striker Louis Saha for £12.8 million.
 * 28 January 2004: Arsenal signed Sevilla striker José Antonio Reyes for £10.5 million.
 * 30 January 2004: Chelsea signed Charlton midfielder Scott Parker for £10 million.
 * 31 January 2004: Manchester United topped the Premier League, with unbeaten Arsenal a point behind and a game in hand. Chelsea's bid for the title took a setback; they were in third place with a seven-point gap between them and the top spot followed by Charlton and Liverpool. Leeds, Wolves and Leicester occupied the bottom three places. Norwich and West Brom were still leading the way at the top of Division One. Sheffield United, Sunderland, Ipswich and Wigan occupied the play-off zone.
 * 2 February 2004: Tottenham paid £7 million for West Ham striker Jermain Defoe.
 * 29 February 2004: Middlesbrough won their first ever trophy as a professional club by beating Bolton Wanderers in the League Cup final. In the Premier League, Arsenal were still unbeaten and were top of the league with a nine-point advantage over Chelsea and Manchester United. Newcastle and Charlton completed the top five, followed closely by Liverpool and Aston Villa. Leeds and Leicester remained in the bottom three, but Wolves had climbed out of the drop zone at the expense of Portsmouth. Norwich and West Brom remained at the top of Division One, and West Ham edged Sheffield United out of an otherwise unchanged play-off zone.
 * 2 March 2004: Gordon Strachan, who was due to depart as Southampton manager at the end of the season, resigned from the club with immediate effect.
 * 4 March 2004: Paul Sturrock departed from Division Two leaders Plymouth Argyle to become Southampton's new manager.
 * 5 March 2004: Three Leicester City players – Paul Dickov, Keith Gillespie and Frank Sinclair – were charged with sexual assault while on a training camp in La Manga, Spain.
 * 7 March 2004: A brace from Malky Mackay followed up by a goal from Darren Huckerby secured East Anglian derby victory for Norwich over Ipswich.
 * 31 March 2004: Arsenal, the first team to complete 30 matches unbeaten at the start of a league season, led Chelsea by seven points with Manchester United a further five points behind. They were also in contention for both the Champions League and the FA Cup. Liverpool and Newcastle completed the top five as Charlton's bid for a European place was fading fast, the competition now coming from Birmingham and Aston Villa. At the other end of the table, time was running out for Wolves and Leeds; Leicester were still giving the rest of the bottom ten a good run for their money. Norwich and West Brom were equal on points at the top of Division One, and Millwall had edged Wigan out of the top six.
 * 10 April 2004: Arsenal's double hopes ended when they lost 1–0 to Manchester United in the FA Cup semi-final at Villa Park.
 * 25 April 2004: Arsenal clinched the Premier League title – and were still unbeaten – after a 2–2 draw with Tottenham at White Hart Lane. Norwich and West Brom had their promotion from Division One confirmed. The play-off places were still being contested between seven clubs: Sunderland, Ipswich, West Ham, Wigan, Sheffield United, Reading and Crystal Palace, who had climbed from 19th to 7th since the appointment of Iain Dowie as manager four months previously.
 * 30 April 2004: Arsenal finished April as Premier League champions while Chelsea and Manchester United fought closely for second place. Liverpool and Aston Villa completed the top five, though the seven teams below them still stood a chance of a top-five finish and European qualification. Wolves and Leicester needed a miracle to avoid relegation, and Leeds were still giving most of the rest of the bottom ten a run for their money.
 * 1 May 2004: Leicester's relegation from the Premier League was confirmed just one season after promotion; Wolves needed to win both of their remaining games by a significant margin and hope that Manchester City would suffer heavy defeats in both of theirs to survive, despite beating Everton. Leeds still needed at least a draw against Bolton to have any chance of avoiding relegation. At the top of the Premiership, Chelsea looked set for second place while Manchester United seemed certain to settle for third place, with Liverpool and Newcastle completing the top five.
 * 2 May 2004: Leeds lost 4–1 to Bolton (despite taking the lead) at the Reebok Stadium, effectively sealing their relegation to the soon-to-be rebranded Football League Championship (exactly three years after contesting a Champions League semi-final), joining Leicester and Wolves.
 * 15 May 2004: Arsenal completed the Premier League season unbeaten with a 2–1 win over Leicester, only the third time since the formation of the Football League in 1888 that a team has gone an entire season unbeaten in the league. Joining them in next season's Champions League were Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool (occupying second, third and fourth place respectively), while fifth-placed Newcastle qualified for the UEFA Cup with League Cup winners Middlesbrough.
 * 16 May 2004: Arsenal signed Dutch winger Robin van Persie from Feyenoord for £2.75 million.
 * 17 May 2004: Goalkeeper Paul Robinson left relegated Leeds in a £1.5 million move to Spurs.
 * 20 May 2004: Birmingham City paid a club record £6.25 million for Liverpool striker Emile Heskey.
 * 22 May 2004: Manchester United beat Millwall 3–0 to clinch the FA Cup for the 11th time in their history. The losers had played their first-ever major cup final; however, Manchester United's participation in the Champions League meant that Millwall would be competing in the UEFA Cup next season, the first time they will have ever played in a European competition.
 * 24 May 2004: Gérard Houllier was sacked after six years as manager of Liverpool.
 * 27 May 2004: Telford United, who reached the FA Cup fourth round in this season, were liquidated and removed from the Conference as a result. Leeds sold striker Alan Smith to rivals Manchester United for £7 million.
 * 29 May 2004: Crystal Palace, who were 19th in Division One when Iain Dowie became manager on 22 December, won promotion to the Premier League with a 1–0 win over West Ham in the play-off final. Neil Shipperley scored the only goal of the game. Ironically, Dowie was a former player of both of these clubs.
 * 1 June 2004: Chelsea signed Rennes and Czech Republic goalkeeper Petr Čech for £7 million.
 * 2 June 2004: José Mourinho took over as manager of Chelsea, replacing the sacked Claudio Ranieri.
 * 11 June 2004: Manchester United signed Argentine defender Gabriel Heinze from Paris Saint-Germain for £6.9 million.
 * 13 June 2004: England's UEFA Euro 2004 campaign began with a 2–1 defeat by France.
 * 16 June 2004: Rafael Benítez took over as manager of Liverpool.
 * 17 June 2004: England confirmed their quarter-final qualification with a 3–0 win over Switzerland at Euro 2004.
 * 21 June 2004: Wimbledon announced that they would change their name to Milton Keynes Dons, reflecting its highly controversial move from South London to Milton Keynes. England's Euro 2004 group stage campaign finished with a 4–2 win over Croatia.
 * 24 June 2004: England lost on penalties to Euro 2004 hosts Portugal after a 2–2 draw, with penalty misses from David Beckham and Darius Vassell ending their chances of progressing to the semi-finals.

National team

 * ECQ – Euro 2004 qualifiers
 * ECF – Euro 2004 finals
 * F – Friendly; scores are written England first
 * FA – FA Summer Tournament (friendly)
 * (FT) – Full-time
 * (aet) – After extra time
 * (P) – After penalty shoot out

FA Premier League
Despite the Premiership title picture being a three-horse race for much of the campaign, Arsenal remained unbeaten all season long and clinched the title with 90 points and an 11-point gap over runners-up Chelsea, who had been most people's favourites for the title after a £100 million summer spending spree. After losing defender Rio Ferdinand to an eight-month ban for missing a drugs test in September, defending champions Manchester United turned in some lacklustre performances during the second half of the season, which put paid to their hopes of retaining their crown and restricting them to a third-place finish, some 15 points behind Arsenal. Solace came in the form of a record 11th FA Cup triumph, defeating Millwall 3–0 in the final at the Millennium Stadium.

Liverpool were the final team to qualify for the Champions League, finishing in fourth place, but leaving them 30 points behind Arsenal and slightly closer to the relegation zone than the title winners, and manager Gérard Houllier was sacked shortly after the season's end.

League Cup winners Middlesbrough qualified for the UEFA Cup for the first time in their history, joined by fifth-placed Newcastle United, who edged out Aston Villa – who had recovered from as low as 18th place in November – on goal difference. Seventh-placed Charlton Athletic and eighth-placed Bolton Wanderers both achieved their highest league finishes since the 1950s, while ninth-placed Fulham (many people's pre-season relegation favourites) defied the odds under 33-year-old manager Chris Coleman and achieved the highest league finish of their history. Birmingham City, in their second season since promotion, also enjoyed a solid year, finishing tenth.

Portsmouth, also considered favourites for relegation pre-season, finished a respectable 13th in their first top-flight season for 16 years, despite finishing behind bitter rivals Southampton, who recovered from the sudden resignation of Gordon Strachan in March to finish 12th.

Newly promoted Leicester City and Wolverhampton Wanderers both went down after just one season (Wolves not gaining one away win all season), while Leeds United's Premiership status was crushed under a multi-million pound debt which had been mounting relentlessly for the best part of three years, as their relegation ultimately became a matter of when rather than if, ending their top-flight membership after 14 successive seasons among the elite.

Leading goalscorer: Thierry Henry (Arsenal) – 30

Football League First Division
The top three led the division for most of the season, but Sunderland could not shake off their poor start and lost out to Norwich, who returned to the Premiership after nearly a decade, and West Brom, who bounced back to the Premiership after relegation the previous season. Crystal Palace achieved one of the most unlikely promotions of recent times, spending the entire first half of the season in the relegation zone under manager Steve Kember before surging into the play-off places under new manager Iain Dowie.

West Ham continued to sell most of their top players following relegation the previous season, but overcame the sudden sacking of Glenn Roeder only three games into the season as his replacement Alan Pardew guided them to 4th place, with the loss to Crystal Palace in the playoff final the only disappointment. Wigan's first season in the First Division saw them finish two points of the play-off places in seventh, failing to win any of their last 4 games, although they did finish above last season's losing playoff finalists Sheffield United on goal difference.

Wimbledon's move to Milton Keynes took its toll on the club, and they finished bottom of the table in an abysmal final season for the club before it was renamed as MK Dons. Bradford fared little better, despite the presence of former England captain Bryan Robson in the manager's chair. Walsall made a respectable start to the season before slumping somewhat later on, and finally crashing into the relegation zone; just a single point from any of their last three games would have ensured survival.

Millwall qualified for the UEFA Cup for finishing as runners-up in the FA Cup, as winners Manchester United already qualified for the Champions League.

Leading goalscorer: Andrew Johnson (Crystal Palace) – 27

Football League Second Division
Plymouth Argyle finished top of the division, though they lost manager Paul Sturrock to Southampton. Queens Park Rangers grabbed the second spot from under the noses of Bristol City, who proceeded to lose the play-off final to Brighton & Hove Albion, another side who bounced back from relegation the previous season.

Tony Adams, previously suggested by many as a possible future manager of Arsenal and England, failed to keep Wycombe Wanderers up, ending their ten-year spell in the division. Notts County nearly went bankrupt during the course of the season and the effect on the club was evident, as they slipped into Division Three (or League Two, as it would be called the next season). Rushden & Diamonds' years of success came to a grinding halt as they suffered their first-ever relegation and crashed out of the division after being promoted the previous year. Grimsby Town filled the final relegation spot, resulting in their second consecutive relegation; they had looked safe in the final weeks, but ultimately went down after a poor sequence of results combined with revivals by Chesterfield and Stockport County.

Leading goalscorer: Leon Knight (Brighton & Hove Albion) and Stephen McPhee (Port Vale) – 25

Football League Third Division
Doncaster Rovers earned a second successive promotion, showing that the club was firmly back on track after the years of struggle and scandal that the club had endured in the late 1990s. Hull City were another team who had suffered much strife in the previous decade, but this time their extensive investment in players finally paid off, and they were promoted as runners-up. Torquay United earned the third automatic promotion spot from Huddersfield on the last day of the season. Huddersfield Town would make up for this by beating Mansfield in the play-off final, earning an immediate return after the previous year's relegation.

Despite winning 4 out of their last 5 games, Yeovil missed out on the playoffs on goal difference in their first ever season in the Football League, while Swansea, nearly relegated the previous season, finished 10th, but were still closer to the drop zone than the playoffs.

York City were in play-off contention for a large part of the campaign, but a disastrous end to the season saw them lose 16 of their last 20 games, costing them their 80-year-old League status. Conversely, Carlisle United started the season horrendously, but a late run saw them finish 23rd. A few years ago this would have seen them complete an amazing escape from relegation, but with the introduction of two relegation places from the League it was no longer sufficient, and they dropped into the Conference, becoming the first former top-flight team to suffer this indignity.

Leading goalscorer: Steve MacLean (Scunthorpe United) – 23

Football Conference

 * Champions:
 * Chester City
 * Playoff winners:
 * Shrewsbury Town
 * Relegated:
 * Margate (forced relegation to Conference South due to failing ground requirements)

Northern Premier League

 * Champions:
 * Hucknall Town (to Conference North)
 * Also promoted (to Conference North):
 * Droylsden, Barrow, Alfreton Town, Harrogate Town, Southport, Worksop Town, Lancaster City, Vauxhall Motors, Gainsborough Trinity, Stalybridge Celtic, Altrincham, Runcorn FC Halton, Bradford Park Avenue (playoff winners)

Southern League

 * Champions:
 * Crawley Town (to Conference National)
 * Also promoted (to Conference North):
 * Stafford Rangers, Nuneaton Borough, Worcester City, Hinckley United, Moor Green
 * Also promoted (to Conference South):
 * Weymouth, Newport County, Cambridge City, Welling United, Weston-super-Mare, Eastbourne Borough, Havant & Waterlooville, Dorchester Town (playoff winners)

Isthmian League

 * Champions:
 * Canvey Island (to Conference National)
 * Also promoted (to Conference South):
 * Sutton United, Thurrock, Hornchurch, Grays Athletic, Carshalton Athletic, Hayes, Bognor Regis Town, Bishop's Stortford, Maidenhead United, Ford United, Basingstoke Town, St Albans City (playoff winners)
 * Also promoted (to Conference North):
 * Kettering Town

Summer transfer window
The summer transfer window ran from the end of the previous season until 31 August 2003.

January transfer window
The mid-season transfer window runs from 1 to 31 January 2004.

For subsequent transfer deals see 2004–05 in English football.

Famous debutants

 * Anton Ferdinand – 18-year-old defender, made his debut for West Ham in their 2–1 away win over Preston North End on 9 August 2003.
 * Darren Fletcher – 19-year-old midfielder, made his debut for Manchester United in their 4–1 win over Leicester City at Walkers Stadium on 27 September 2003.
 * Ashley Young – 18-year-old winger, made his debut for Watford in their 3–1 home win over Millwall on 13 September 2003.
 * Aaron Lennon – 16-year-old winger, made his debut for Leeds United in their 2–2 home draw with Newcastle on 17 August 2003.
 * Cristiano Ronaldo – 18-year-old Ronaldo made his debut as a substitute in a 4–0 home win over Bolton Wanderers in the Premier League on 16 August 2003, and received a standing ovation when he came on for Nicky Butt. His performance earned praise from George Best, who hailed it as "undoubtedly the most exciting debut" he had ever seen.

Retirements

 * 13 January 2004: David Seaman, 40, retired from playing halfway through a one-year contract at Manchester City, having joined them seven months ago after 13 years at Arsenal. He was England's regular goalkeeper for a decade.
 * 15 May 2004: Denis Irwin, 38, retired from playing following a two-year spell at Wolverhampton Wanderers after joining them from Manchester United where he spent 12 years. A regular for the Republic of Ireland in the 1990s, he also had spells playing for Leeds United and Oldham Athletic.

Deaths

 * 6 July 2003: Bert Hoyle, 83, kept goal in 82 league games for Exeter City and 105 for Bristol Rovers in the seven seasons following the end of World War II before his senior career was ended by injuries sustained in a car crash.
 * 9 August 2003:
 * – Jimmy Davis, 21, Manchester United and England under-21 striker, died in a car crash on the M40 just hours before the club to whom he had been loaned – Watford – were due to play. He had played once for Manchester United in a League Cup game, and had spent part of the 2001–02 season on loan to Swindon Town.
 * – Ray Harford, 58, was best remembered for his managerial and coaching career – he was manager of Luton Town when they won the League Cup in 1988 and assistant manager of Blackburn Rovers when they were Premiership champions in 1995. He was promoted from the role of assistant manager to the manager's seat at three clubs – Luton Town, Wimbledon and Blackburn Rovers. He also had spells in charge of Fulham, West Bromwich Albion and finally Queens Park Rangers. His last post was as first-team coach at Millwall, and helped them win the Division Two title in 2001. He was still on the club's payroll at the time of his death from lung cancer.
 * 4 September 2003: Harold Atkinson, 78, scored 91 league goals as a centre-forward for Tranmere Rovers in the nine seasons following the end of World War II before finishing his senior career with a spell at Chesterfield.
 * 26 October 2003: Steve Death, 54, made one appearance in goal for West Ham under Ron Greenwood before signing for Reading in 1969 and remaining with them until his retirement 13 years later, playing 471 league games. He was the club's player of the year four times, won promotion from the Fourth Division twice, kept 26 clean sheets in a single season and went a record 1,103 minutes of league football without conceding a goal.
 * 28 November 2003: Ted Bates, 85, served Southampton for 66 years until his death as a player, coach, manager, director and president. He scored 63 goals for the club as a forward and during his 18-year spell as manager took the club into the top flight for the first time in 1966.
 * 1 February 2004: Bob Stokoe, 73, was manager of the Sunderland side who achieved a shock FA Cup victory over Leeds United in the 1973 final. He later managed Carlisle United and returned to Sunderland during the 1986–87 season, but quit after failing to save them from relegation to the old Third Division for the first time in their history.
 * 14 February 2004: Steve Cooper, 39, former striker who played nine Football League clubs during his career, most notably Tranmere Rovers and Plymouth Argyle, where he was a key member of promotion-winning sides. Later joined Scottish side Airdrie where he was a member of the side that surprisingly reached the Scottish FA Cup final in 1995.
 * 21 February 2004: John Charles, 72, was the most famous Leeds United player in the pre-Don Revie era. His exploits for Leeds and the Welsh national team attracted attention from all over the world and he was sold to Italian side Juventus in 1958.
 * 19 March 2004: Bert Barlow, 87, scored in Portsmouth 1939 FA Cup triumph over Wolverhampton Wanderers, a year after he joined the Fratton Park club from their Wembley opponents. He was still at the club a decade later when they won the league title. Having started his career at Barnsley, he later played for Leicester before winding up at Colchester United in 1954.
 * 21 June 2004: Ron Ashman, 78, was a full-back for most of his 592 league appearances for Norwich City between 1947 and 1963, during which time they reached the FA Cup semi-finals in 1959 and won the League Cup in 1962. He became manager soon after the club's League Cup triumph and remained in charge until 1966. In the first of two spells as manager of Scunthorpe United, he sold Kevin Keegan to Liverpool.

title: 2003–04 in English football


text:
William Francis Patrick Napier

General Sir William Francis Patrick Napier KCB (7 December 1785 – 12 February 1860) was a British soldier in the British Army and a military historian.

Early life
Napier was born at Celbridge, County Kildare, the third son of Colonel George Napier (1751–1804) and his wife, Lady Sarah Lennox (1745–1826).

Military service
He became an ensign in the Royal Irish Artillery in 1800, but at once exchanged into the 62nd, and was put on half-pay in 1802. He was afterwards made a cornet in the Royal Horse Guards by the influence of his uncle the duke of Richmond, and for the first time did actual military duty in this regiment, but he soon fell in with Sir John Moore's suggestion that he should exchange into the 52nd, which was about to be trained at Shorncliffe Army Camp. Through Sir John Moore he soon obtained a company in the 43rd, joined that regiment at Shorncliffe and became a great favourite with Moore.

He served in Denmark, and was present at the engagement of Koege (Køge), and, his regiment being shortly afterwards sent to Spain, he bore himself nobly through the retreat to Corunna, the hardships of which permanently impaired his health. In 1809 he became aide-de-camp to his cousin the Duke of Richmond, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, but joined the 43rd when that regiment was ordered again to Spain. With the light brigade (the 43rd, 52nd, and 95th), under the command of General Craufurd, he marched to Talavera in the famous forced march which he has described in his History, and had a violent attack of pleurisy on the way.

He, however, refused to leave Spain, was wounded on the Coa, and shot near the spine at Cazal Nova. His conduct was so conspicuous during the pursuit of Masséna after he left the lines of Torres Vedras that he as well as his brother George was recommended for a brevet majority. He became Brigade Major, was present at Fuentes d'Onoro, but had so bad an attack of fever that he was obliged to return to England.

In England he married his cousin Caroline Amelia Fox, daughter of General, the Honourable Henry Fox and niece of the statesman Charles James Fox. They had a number of children, one of whom, Pamela Adelaide Napier, married Philip William Skynner Miles and had a son, Philip Napier Miles. Another daughter, Louisa Augusta Napier, married General Sir Patrick Leonard MacDougall who, after her death, married Marianne Adelaide Miles, a sister of Philip William Skynner Miles.

Three weeks after his marriage he again started for Spain, and was present at the storming of Badajoz, where his great friend Colonel McLeod was killed. In the absence of the new Lieutenant-Colonel he took command of the 43rd regiment (he was now a substantive Major) and commanded it at the Salamanca. After a short stay at home he again joined his regiment at the Pyrenees, and did his greatest military service at the Nivelle, where, with instinctive military insight, he secured the most strongly fortified part of Soult's position, practically without orders. He served with his regiment at the battles of the Nive, where he received two wounds, Orthes, and Toulouse. For his services he was made brevet Lieutenant-Colonel, and one of the first Companions of the Bath. Like his brother Charles he then entered the military college at Farnham. He commanded his regiment in the invasion of France after Waterloo, and remained in France with the army of occupation until 1819, when he retired on half-pay. As it was impossible for him to live on a Major's half-pay with a wife and family, he determined to become an artist, taking a house in Sloane Street, where he studied with George Jones, the academician.

Historian
The years he had spent in France he had occupied in improving his general education, for, incredible as it seems, the author of the History of the War in the Peninsula could not spell or write respectable English till that time. But his career was to be great in literature, not in art. This skill appeared in an able review of Jomini's works (Edinburgh Review) in 1821, and in 1823 Henry Bickersteth suggested that he write a history of the Peninsular War.

For some time Napier did not take kindly to the suggestion, but at last decided to become an author in order to defend the memory of Sir John Moore, and to prevent the glory of his old chief being overshadowed by that of Wellington. The Duke of Wellington himself gave him much assistance, and handed over the whole of Joseph Bonaparte's correspondence that was captured at the battle of Vittoria; this was all in cipher, but Mrs Napier, with great patience, discovered the key. Marshal Soult took an active interest in the work arranging for a French translation of Mathieu Dumas.

The first volume of his History appeared in 1828. The publisher John Murray was disappointed by the sales of the first volume so Napier published the remainder himself. But it was at once seen that the great deeds of the Peninsular War were about to be fittingly commemorated. The excitement which followed the appearance of each volume was proof of innumerable pamphlets issued by those who believed themselves to be victims, by dint of personal altercations with many distinguished officers. The success of the book proved still further an absence of competition amidst bitter controversy. The histories of Southey and Lord Londonderry fell still-born, and Sir George Murray, Wellington's quartermaster-general, who had been determined to produce an historical work, gave up the attempt in despair. Napier's success was due to a combination of factors. When in 1840 the last volume of the History was published, his fame not only in England but in France and Germany was well established.

His life during these years had been chiefly absorbed in his History, but he warmly sympathized with the movement for political reform which was agitating England. 'The Radicals' of Bath, (forerunners of Chartism), among many other cities and towns pressed him to enter parliament. Napier's friends actually invited to become the military chief of a national guard to obtain reforms by force of arms. Naturally enough for a 'Waterloo man' he refused this dubious honour on the ground that he was in bad health and had a family of eight children. In 1830 he had been promoted Colonel, and by 1841 he attained the rank of Major-General and was appointed Lieutenant Governor of Guernsey. On Guernsey was engaged in controlling relations between soldiers and the inhabitants. He was working on proposals for a complete scheme of reform in the government of the island, upsetting many people in the process, when his tenure came to an end. During this time, Napier had a fateful falling out with John Gurwood, who – like Napier – was closely associated with the Napoleonic Wars as a veteran, historian and Commander of the Bath. In a very public row, Napier questioned Gurwood's bravery during the Siege of Ciudad Rodrigo. Gurwood, like Napier, suffered serious discomfiture from wounds received in battle, which was compounded by a deep depression, culminating with Gurwood committing suicide on Christmas Day 1845, by cutting his own throat.

While he was at Guernsey his brother Charles had conquered Sindh, and the attacks made on the policy of that conquest brought William Napier again into the field of literature. In 1845 he published his The Conquest of Scinde, and in 1851 the corresponding History of the Administration of Scinde, which in style and vigour rivalled the great History, written for sensational purposes, not to maintain an enduring popularity. In 1847 he resigned his governorship, and in 1848 was made a K.C.B., and settled at Scinde House, Clapham Park. In 1848 he was given the colonelcy of the 27th (Inniskilling) Regiment of Foot which he held until 1853, when he transferred to succeed his brother Charles as colonel of the 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment of Foot. In 1851 he was promoted Lieutenant-General.

His time was fully occupied in defending his brother, in revising the numerous editions of his History which were being called for, and in writing letters to The Times on every conceivable subject, whether military or literary. His energy is the more astonishing when it is remembered that he never recovered from the effects of the wound received at Cazal Nova, that he often lay about on his back for months to assuage.

William's domestic life was overshadowed by an incurable illness of his only son, and when his brother Charles died in 1853 the world seemed to darken around him. He devoted himself to writing a life for his brother, which appeared in 1857, and which is in many respects his most characteristic book. At the end of 1853 his younger brother, Captain Henry Napier RN., died and, in 1855, his brother Sir George. Inspired by his work, he lived on till the year 1860, when, broken by trouble, fatigue and ill-health, he died at Clapham, and was buried at West Norwood. Four months earlier he had been promoted to the full rank of general.

There is a memorial to him in St Paul's Cathedral.

Works
The Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition considered his military history, at the time, to be "incomparably superior to any other English writer", comparing him to three other soldier-writers: Thucydides, Julius Caesar and Enrico Caterino Davila. Among his works are:
 * History of the War in the Peninsula and the South of France from the Year 1807 to the Year 1814 (6 vols.) (1828–40)
 * The Conquest of Scinde (1845)
 * History of General Sir Charles Napier's Administration of Scinde, and Campaign in the Cutchee Hills (1851)
 * The life and opinions of General Sir Charles James Napier, (4 vols.) (1857)

title: William Francis Patrick Napier


text:
Talk:Wet T-shirt contest

Untitled
[Somebody please write about the Catherine Bosley story] - Toytoy

Inflight competition edit
I removed the word 'rowdy' from the 'Inflight compeition' section. The word is subjective, judgemental and undoubtly un-encyclopedic. -Roswell Crash Survivor 10:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Tank top vs. T-shirt
OMG I AM OUTRAGED! How can you have that horribly inappropriate picture in this article!?!?!?! ....  That's a wet tank top, not a t-shirt!!!
 * lol, loved your irony! Mathmo 09:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's debatable on whether it should be a t-shirt or not. It is still an article of clothing that, when splashed by water, becomes transparent and is often worn by women who participate in those types of contests. TheMonkofDestiny 02:30, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a good image, but I agree: it definitely surprised and slightly annoyed me to see a tank top as the only illustration here. Sure, I highly doubt any wet t-shirt contest would reject this, but the image should be an illustration of the typical contest, not a slightly unusual exception to what the article describes; it should make it clear why the contest is named "wet t-shirt contest" rather than "wet article of clothing that, when splashed by water, becomes transparent contest". I propose that we upload several dozen more images of this nature and pick the best one to use in this article, after I've saved them all to my hard drive. Who's with me? -Silence 06:42, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

That's kind of uneeded, I think. But, I am liking the idea of getting other pictures of this nature, and pick the best one.

Actually, it's okay. It's not like a typical wet t-shirt contest doesn't use a tank top. Zero R 08:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The comment under the first just made me laugh so much; maybe it should be pointed out that most contests these days have evolved to other forms of clothing and are not just t-shirts? Another beef I have with this article is that it quite clearly states "The water is often cold to induce erect nipples, suggestive of sexual arousal." This should be portrayed in the pictures to give a clearer understanding and to prevent any common misconceptions.144.124.16.33 22:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Common misconceptions?--Radh (talk) 06:23, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Playboy pictorial
The pictorial ran in the March 1972 number - I have a copy. (not sick, just a packrat!) It did not give the dates of the contests, but it showed pics from three different ones - Aspen and Mammoth Mountain were two, I forget the other. The latter did allow bottomless. It is a great pictorial. The t-shirts were not wet, though. I think Dick Barrymore is letting his imagination run away with him on that one. Wet t-shirt contests were definitely inspired by Jacqueline Bissett in The Deep - she was on the poster for that, at least in places where the poster was not censored. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fritz57 (talk • contribs).

Wet boxer-shorts contests
These are metioned in the article, as being the female-attracting counterpart of wet t-shirt contests. Do they really exist? If so, does anybody feel up to the task of making a seperate article?
 * yup, it happens. but kind of rare, besides guys seem to be more willing to go all the way and be naked. none of this prancing around nonsense in wet clothing pretending as if they are almost naked. lol Mathmo 09:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * They exist, apparently, but they're certainly far too minor to merit their own article—less than 1000 hits on Google. Especially considering that this article is barely longer than a stub currently, and we don't even know if there's any more information of any interest for such contests, we should keep that item here and, if anything else of note arises regarding it, that information should be added here. If enough information accumulates on "wet boxer-short contests", it should be given its own section on this page. If so much information accumulates that it starts to get overlong for this article, then it should be given its own page. Making a new page should never be our first instinct when something could easily just be added to an existing one; it's always more convenient to just scroll down a page to get to new information than to have to go to the bother of clicking a link, visiting another page, clicking back, etc. -Silence 20:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

"Wet boxer shorts".... "barely longer than a stub"... there's a pun in there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be the one to point it out :-) 220.240.227.91 04:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * no need to point it out, is too little to be off any worth. ;p Mathmo

Maybe I'm old, but I think the "traditional" term was a "wet willie" contest. I'm not sure that the style of underwear was prescribed ... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fritz57 (talk • contribs).

Soirée ts2.jpg
Does this image look fake or photoshopped to anyone else? By the looks of the water splash, I'd say it's fake and should be removed. I'm not sure if the image is real or fake, but even if it is real, I think it should be removed anyway because it's really unneeded.

Yeh mate the face doesn't look too real either. Facial features are a bit ... werid there. i cant put my finger on whats wrong though

Appropriateness of images
Very recently, User:129.81.123.252 removed the images from the page. I went ahead an reverted the edits, but perhaps this issue should be addressed. Clearly the fact that they have remained up for so long implies a consensus of appropriateness. Personally, I consider the images short of earning labels such as "obscene," and I consider them not to be at all gratiuitous as they certainly do illustrate the subject matter of the article.

Any other opinions/comments/support/criticisms? Seidenstud 06:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The images aren't fantastic. We could use an image that shows a line of contestants rather than a couple of individuals. Apart from that, they are fine and certainly not "inappropriate" as tagged by the anon. WP:NOT censored for the protection of minors. --GraemeL (talk) 12:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

 * An illustration would not work for this article. A wide shot showing a line of individuals in a contest would only supplement the existing images. Blurring out or otherwise obscuring nipples would defeat the point of including the pictures in the first place as the pictures are presented to show the exact effect of a wet t-shirt. The images should be retained or improved. --Mattarata 20:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

i added a face to the blured picture so it looks better innit —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.55.167 (talk • contribs) 3:19, 20 August, 2006 (UTC).
 * Way to go. Because of your action the image got deleted because it was orphaned or just a bad picture...thanks. That picture was being used to show the manner in which water is poured during a contest, and was being used to illustrate the point. --Mattarata 17:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks better with a face on it though innit blud. bruv.

 * I suggest we remove the Soiree ts image now that we have the one that Mattarata has added. Carl.bunderson 21:21, 22 August 2006
 * the image shows the woman's nipples, it should at least be blurred. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntlover (talk • contribs)

 * May I direct you to What Wikipedia is Not - to put it bluntly, wikipedia is NOT censored, and you should not change images or text to suit your own sensibilities. mattbuck 01:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Change in Laws?
The article states: "However because of recent laws they may not reveal their full breasts or be fully nude." There is no citation, and my own search has not discovered any verification of this. Local laws usually determine nudity issues. However, many of the most explicit contests originated in Key West FL, during spring break periods. Many of these contests have been videotaped and marketed on the internet. I have noticed since 2004, newer videos have not been available. I am curious if new laws have been passed in Key West prohibiting nudity in these contests.

Eelb53 (talk) 05:24, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I was going to mention this too - Wikipedia is global and I'm sure that these competitions take place outside the jurisdiction of the area whoever added this is from. GavinZac (talk) 09:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps the line should be either removed, or altered to say where, how, and when the law was changed. I think removal would certainly be easier than listing every law reguarding transparent clothing the world over. Velinion (talk) 12:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Early reference to Wet T-shirt contest
I went thru Google news archives and found an early article from The Milwaukee Sentinel - Sep 16, 1976 by Ron Lego titled Arrests Put a Damper On Wet T-Shirt Contest. This is the earliest one I could find. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 22:31, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've included it in the article. - Polly Tunnel (talk) 17:08, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Appropriateness of images 2020
Should the inappropriate pictures be deleted? It's completely unnecessary (not even educational) and only makes wikipedia not friendly for everybody. --Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 02:52, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , Wikipedia is not friendly for everybody. As an encyclopaedia it covers topics which may be inappropriate for some readers. We do not censor ourselves to appease people - we show images which are appropriate to the article. If you go to an article about a flower, expect to see pictures of flowers; if you go to this article, expect to see photos of wet t-shirt contests. Now, images should not be there for decoration, but to enhance understanding. I have changed the first photo to one which actually shows a contest rather than just a person having water poured over them, but unfortunately the choice of images we have on this subject is not great. -mattbuck (Talk) 08:46, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Ummmm, we have contests in Japan - orgies with 1,000 contestants. Should we post videos and GIFs on public domain? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.36.1 (talk) 19:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

mattbuck, Sorry I don't think you understood what they were saying. The reason for removing content on wikipedia is not for unfriendliness itself. It is for, as they said, being inappropriate, not educational, and unnecessary. The unfriendliness is a negative side effect of putting unnecessary pictures on the site, and that harms the site. Articles about murders are unfriendly but appropriate for an encyclopedia. It's educational. On the other hand, lewd pictures don't enchance understanding of this article. They're for decoration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.33.190 (talk) 20:14, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wet T-shirt contest


text:
Akeridae

Akeridae is a small taxonomic family of sea snails, marine gastropod molluscs belonging to the superfamily Akeroidea, the sea hares. The family, in its original spelling "Aceridae", has previously been attributed in error to Pilsbry, 1893.

Akeridae is the only family in the superfamily.

Genera
The only genus of the family is:
 * Genus Akera O. F. Müller, 1776 - type genus

title: Akeridae


text:
Talk:Arab world

Cohtries in commoh wealth
cohtries ih commoh wea lth 185.80.141.94 (talk) 13:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Transcriptions
I am assuming that the transcriptions are not mere transliterations, but are supposed to serve a purpose of pronunciation guide, as well? If that is the case, apart from some transcriptions missing entirely, the existing ones are erroneous considering the ħarakāt that were used, so I suggest the following amendments/inclusions:

(Maybe keep the Hamzatu 'l-Waṣli in this one, if it is a direct quote from Al-Maqdisi?)
 * 1) Arab world (Arabic: اَلْعَالَمُ الْعَرَبِيُّ al-ʿālam al-ʿarabī) → Arab world (Arabic: الْعَالَمُ الْعَرَبِيّ al-ʿālam u ' l-ʿarabī yy )
 * 2) Arab homeland (اَلْوَطَنُ الْعَرَبِيُّ al-waṭan al-ʿarabī) → Arab homeland ( Arabic: الْوَطَنُ الْعَرَبِيُّ al-waṭan u ' l-ʿarabī yy )
 * 3) Arab nation (اَلْأُمَّةُ الْعَرَبِيَّةُ al-ummah al-ʿarabīyyah) → Arab nation ( Arabic: الْأُمَّةُ الْعَرَبِيَّةُ al-ʾumma tu ' l-ʿarabīyyah
 * 4) Arab regions (Arabic: أَقَالِيمُ ٱلْعَرَبِ) → Arab regions ( Arabic: أَقَالِيمُ الْعَرَب  ʾaqālīmu 'l-ʿarab )
 * 5) Darija (الدَّارِجَة "everyday/colloquial language") → Darija ( Arabic: الْدَّارِجَة ad-dāriǧah, “ everyday/colloquial [ language ]” )
 * 6) Aammiyya (ٱلْعَامِيَّة "common language") →  ʿA mmiyya ( Arabic: الْعَامِيَّة al-ʿāmmīyyah, “ common [ language ]” )

Note that I have removed ħarakāt in pausal form, to conform with pronunciation rules, though the diacritics themselves can be added back if that is more in line with Wiki style guidelines for Arabic. I would not suggest adding them to the transcription itself, though, since these are only pronounced within a sentence, and even then only in a high register of Modern Standard Arabic.

I have also removed the Fatħä from the first letter of the first definite article اَلـ, since I am not positive the definite article in modern practice receives a vowel diacritic itself. I have only ever seen (in very posh, linguistic, or religious texts, as well as dictionaries) a Hamzatu 'l-Waṣli used above it. I would be open to using Waṣalāt consistently, too.

Any input is appreciated! –Konanen (talk) 14:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Silk Road
Trade and commerce between the "Arabic people" and "Non-Arab" caused the Mongol Empire to destroy the Silk Road.

03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 103.245.194.28 (talk) 03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Arab world


text:
Leucius Charinus

Leucius, called Leucius Charinus by Photios I of Constantinople in the ninth century, is named by Evodius, bishop of Uzala, as the author of a cycle of what M. R. James termed "Apostolic romances". These works seem to have had wide currency long before a selection from them was read aloud at the Second Council of Nicaea (787) and then rejected. Leucius is not among the early heretical teachers mentioned by name in Irenaeus' Adversus haereses (ca. 180). Most of the works seem to be products of the mid-third century.

The fullest account of Leucius is that given by Photius (Codex 114). He describes a book, called The Circuits of the Apostles, which contained the Acts of Peter, John, Andrew, Thomas, and Paul, that was purported to have been written by "Leucius Charinus". Photius considers it to be full of folly, self-contradiction, falsehood, and impiety (Wace); Photius is the only source to give his second name, "Charinus". Epiphanius (Haer. 51.427) made Leucius a disciple of John who joined his master in opposing the Ebionites, a characterization that appears unlikely, since other patristic writers agree that the cycle attributed to him was docetic, which denies the humanity of Jesus as Christ. Augustine knew the cycle, which he attributed to "Leutius", which his adversary Faustus of Mileve thought had been wrongly excluded from the New Testament canon by the Catholics. Gregory of Tours found a copy of the Acts of Andrew from the cycle and made an epitome of it, omitting the "tiresome" elaborations of detail he had found within.

The "Leucian Acts" are as follows:

The Leucian Acts were most likely redacted at a later date to express a more orthodox view. Of the five, the Acts of John and Thomas have the most remaining Gnostic content.
 * The Acts of John
 * The Acts of Peter
 * The Acts of Paul
 * The Acts of Andrew
 * The Acts of Thomas

Crucifixion of Jesus
Concerning the crucifixion of Jesus, Photios of Constantinople reports thus what Leucius Charinus wrote: "“He said that Christ was not crucified, but another in his place, while he himself laughed at the mistake of the executioners. »"

It is the oldest literary witness to this tradition found in the Muslim tradition and in particular in the Koran. While “the Jews” boasted of having crucified Jesus Isâ, the Quran in fact states: “Now they neither killed nor crucified him; but it was only a pretense! And those who discussed his subject are truly in uncertainty: they have no certain knowledge of it, they are only following conjectures and they certainly did not kill him (Quran, Surah IV, 157). »

This tradition is reported in more detail by Tabarî (839-923) as follows: “The Jews dragged ʿĪsā to a place where they had prepared a cross to crucify him, and a large number of Jews gathered around him. They had a leader named Yesûʿa, who was also among them. When they wanted to attach ʿĪsā to the cross, God removed him from their sight and gave the form and appearance of ʿĪsâ to Yesûʿa, their leader. […] When they looked, they saw Yesûʿa completely resembling Îsâ, and they seized him. He said: “I am Yesûʿa.” They replied: "You lie; you are ʿĪsā, you have hidden yourself from our sight by magic; now the magic has passed and you have become visible." He protested in vain that he was Yesûʿa; they killed him and tied him to the cross. As for ʿĪsā, God raised him to heaven as it is said in the Quran: “They did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it was only a pretense” (Quran IV, 157).”

title: Leucius Charinus


text:
Oholah and Oholibah

In the Hebrew Bible, Oholah (אהלה) and Oholibah (אהליבה) (or Aholah and Aholibah in the King James Version and Young's Literal Translation) are pejorative personifications given by the prophet Ezekiel to the cities of Samaria in the Kingdom of Israel and Jerusalem in the kingdom of Judah, respectively. They appear in chapter 23 of the Book of Ezekiel.

There is a pun in these names in the Hebrew. means "her tent", and means "my tent is in her".

The Hebrew prophets frequently compared the sin of idolatry to the sin of adultery, in a reappearing rhetorical figure. Ezekiel's rhetoric directed against these two allegorical figures depicts them as lusting after Egyptian men in explicitly sexual terms in Ezekiel 23:20–21:

"And she doted upon concubinage with them, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. Thus thou didst call to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, when they from Egypt bruised thy breasts for the bosom of thy youth."

- Ezekiel 23:20–21

23:44
There are many opinions available on a detail of translation. "'He went in to her as to a harlot, indeed they have gone in to Oholah and Oholibah אשח of wickedness.' The easiest and perhaps correct solution to the difficulty of the anomalous אשח in this verse is to assume the text is corrupt and emend it." Most translators chose synonyms for harlot.

Catharism
In the divergent Theology of the Cathars, the heterodox Christian movement thriving in the 12th to 14th Centuries, Oholah and Oholibah inspired the belief that the Cathar Invisible Father had two spiritual wives, Collam and Hoolibam.

title: Oholah and Oholibah


text:
Talk:Alan Doyle

comment
After having read up a lot on Great Big Sea before writing their article, I was suprised when someone changed Alan Doyle's instrument from keyboard to bouzouki. I did a bit more research online, and can't find any evidence suppoerting this. Further, I found a number of pages that say he plays the keyboard. Hardly worth it for this stub. --Caliper 16:31, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

As a fan of both Great Big Sea and 30 Odd Foot of Grunts since 2000, and a regular attendee of Great Big Sea shows in my area, I can definitely attest that Alan Doyle plays bouzouki as his secondary instrument and guitar as his primary instrument during concert performances. (He does play mandolin and other instruments in studio work, according to the liner notes on the various Great Big Sea albums, but guitar and bouzouki are his primary instruments.) Also, the correct name for Russell Crowe's band is 30 Odd Foot of Grunts. --Annathepiper 7:12PM, 31 July 2005 Pacific Time

I just watched the Alan Doyle interview on George Strombolopoulos, and I'm quite sure he said he was boy on bridge in a film called Whale for the Killing rather than a "lesser known jaws knock-off called Orca" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.199.227 (talk) 21:01, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Alan Doyle


text:
Colour sergeant

Colour sergeant (CSgt or C/Sgt) is a rank of non-commissioned officer found in several armies and marine corps.

Australia
In the Australian Army, the rank of colour sergeant has only existed in the Corps of Staff Cadets at the Royal Military College, Duntroon.

Canada
Colour sergeant is a rank in the Foot Guards regiments of the Canadian Army, specifically in the Governor General's Foot Guards and the Canadian Grenadier Guards and also previously in The Canadian Guards. It is the equivalent to warrant officer; a colour sergeant wears the rank insignia of a warrant officer (a royal crown) on all uniforms except No. 1 Ceremonial Dress, on which a special rank badge is worn: three chevrons, point down, surmounted by an image of regimental colours.

Canadian colour sergeants are addressed in the same manner as their British counterparts.

United Kingdom
Colour sergeant (CSgt or C/Sgt) is a non-commissioned title in the Royal Marines and infantry regiments of the British Army, ranking above sergeant and below warrant officer class 2. It has a NATO ranking code of OR-7 and is equivalent to the rank of staff sergeant in other branches of the Army, flight sergeant or chief technician in the Royal Air Force, and chief petty officer in the Royal Navy. The insignia is the monarch's crown above three downward pointing chevrons. The rank was introduced into British Army infantry regiments in 1813 during the Napoleonic Wars to reward long-serving sergeants; a single colour sergeant was appointed to each company as the senior NCO. From 1 October 1913, British infantry battalions were reorganised from eight companies to four, leaving two colour sergeants in each new company. The senior of the pair was appointed to the new rank of company sergeant major and the junior to that of company quartermaster sergeant. Although the rank of colour sergeant was then abolished, the CQMS of an infantry company continued to be generally addressed as "Colour Sergeant" and the rank was later reintroduced, probably during the Second World War, with CQMS becoming an appointment of it. The Royal Marines retained the rank throughout.

Historically, colour sergeants of British line regiments protected ensigns, the most junior officers who were responsible for carrying their battalions' colours to rally troops in battles. For this reason, to reach the rank of colour sergeant was considered a prestigious attainment, granted normally to those sergeants who had displayed courage on the field of battle. This tradition continues today as colour sergeants form part of a colour party in military parades. During ceremonial events, it is from a colour sergeant that the ensign collects the colour of the battalion or regiment.

Colour sergeants are referred to and addressed as "Colour Sergeant" or "Colour" ("Colour Sergeant Hewitt" or "Colour Hewitt", for instance) in the Army, or as "Colour Sergeant" or "Colours" in the Royal Marines, and never by the more junior rank of "Sergeant". Unusually, NCOs with the rank of colour sergeant who hold the appointment of company quartermaster sergeant are still addressed and referred to by their rank, not their appointment. In Foot Guards regiments, colour sergeants are addressed as "Sir" and afforded the respect and privileges normally accorded to warrant officers. In The Rifles, the spelling "colour serjeant" is used, in common with other Rifles ranks and appointments including the word serjeant.

In the Royal Marines Band Service, the bandmasters of the seven Royal Navy Volunteer Bands usually hold the rank of band colour sergeant. The senior playing musician in a Royal Marines band also holds this rank, which replaced the rank of bandmaster in 1969.

Colour sergeants and warrant officers form an important part of the instructor cadre at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst.

United States
Color sergeant is an NCO rank that was used historically in the United States Army, most recently during World War I. Within the United States Military Academy at West Point, the term is used to distinguish second class cadets who are assigned to a colour party (one bearer per colour plus two guards).. In the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets, the rank is given to 3rd year cadets that are members of the Regimental Color Guard, with the exception of the guard's NCO-in-command, who holds the rank of cadet command color sergeant. All color sergeants in the VTCC must go through the guard's joining process (Tap) again, even if they served as cadet color corporals on the guard as sophomores.

The term is used in the US Marine Corps as a billet for sergeants who carry the colours. Additionally, there is a billet of Color Sergeant of the Marine Corps, a sergeant (E5) who is the Commandant of the Marine Corps' ceremonial representative and the platoon sergeant of the Marine Corps Battle Colors Detachment.

title: Colour sergeant