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Casey Affleck

Casey Affleck (born Caleb Casey McGuire Affleck-Boldt; August 12, 1975) is an American actor. He is the recipient of various accolades, including an Academy Award, a British Academy Film Award, and a Golden Globe Award. The younger brother of actor Ben Affleck, he began his career as a child actor, appearing in the PBS television film Lemon Sky (1988). He later appeared in three Gus Van Sant films: To Die For (1995), Good Will Hunting (1997), Gerry (2002), and in Steven Soderbergh's Ocean's film series (2001–2007). His first leading role was in Steve Buscemi's independent comedy-drama Lonesome Jim (2006).

Affleck's breakthrough came in 2007, when he was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for his performance as Robert Ford in the Western drama The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford and starred in his brother's crime drama Gone Baby Gone. In 2010, he directed the mockumentary I'm Still Here. He went on to appear in Tower Heist (2011), ParaNorman (2012), and Interstellar (2014), and he received praise for his performance as an outlaw in Ain't Them Bodies Saints (2013).

In 2016, Affleck starred in the drama Manchester by the Sea, in which his performance as a grieving man earned him the Academy Award for Best Actor. He has since starred in the dramas A Ghost Story (2017) and The Old Man & the Gun (2018), and as Boris Pash in the biographical thriller Oppenheimer (2023), his highest-grossing release.

Early life and education
Caleb Casey McGuire Affleck-Boldt was born on August 12, 1975, in Falmouth, Massachusetts, to Christopher Anne "Chris" Boldt and Timothy Byers Affleck. The surname "Affleck" is of Scottish origin. He also has Irish, German, English, and Swiss ancestry. Affleck's maternal great-great-grandfather, Heinrich Boldt, known for the discovery of the Curmsun Disc, emigrated from Prussia in the late 1840s. His mother was a Radcliffe College- and Harvard-educated elementary school teacher. His father worked sporadically as an auto mechanic, a carpenter, a bookie, an electrician, a bartender, and a janitor at Harvard University. In the mid-1960s, he had been a stage manager, director, writer and actor with the Theater Company of Boston. During Affleck's childhood, his father was "a disaster of a drinker". Affleck first started acting by "reenacting what was happening at home" during role play exercises at Alateen meetings.

After his parents divorced when he was nine, Affleck and his older brother, Ben, lived with their mother and visited their father weekly. He learned to speak Spanish during a year spent traveling around Mexico with his mother and brother when he was ten. At the time, his brother Ben was filming The Second Voyage of the Mimi, which was set in Mexico. The two brothers spent "all of our time together, pretty much. Obviously at school we were in different grades, but we had the same friends." When Affleck was fourteen, his father moved to Indio, California, to enter a rehabilitation facility, and later worked there as an addiction counselor. He reconnected with his father during visits to California as a teenager: "I got to know him, really, because he was sober for the first time ... The man I knew before that was just completely different."

Growing up in a politically active, liberal household in Central Square, Cambridge, Affleck and his brother were surrounded by people who worked in the arts, were regularly taken to the theater by their mother, and were encouraged to make their own home movies. The brothers sometimes appeared in local weather commercials and as film extras because of their mother's friendship with a local casting director. Affleck acted in numerous high school theater productions while a student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin School. He has said he "wouldn't be an actor" if not for his high school theater teacher Gerry Speca: "He kind of turned me on to acting, why it can be fun, how it can be rewarding."

At age eighteen, Affleck moved to Los Angeles for a year to pursue an acting career, and lived with his brother and their childhood friend Matt Damon. Despite having "the best possible first experience" while filming To Die For, he spent much of the year working as a busboy at a restaurant in Pasadena. He decided to move to Washington, D.C., to study politics at George Washington University. He soon transferred to Columbia University in New York City, where he followed the Core Curriculum for a total of two years. However, he did not graduate: "I would do a semester of school, go do a movie ... Opportunities kept presenting themselves that were hard for me to turn down ... By then, I didn't really have roots at the school or a group of friends."

1988–2006: Early work
Affleck acted professionally during his childhood due to his mother's friendship with a Cambridge-area casting director, Patty Collinge. In addition to local weather commercials and film extra work, he appeared as Kevin Bacon's brother in the PBS television film Lemon Sky (1988), directed by Collinge's husband Jan Egleson, and as a young Robert F. Kennedy in the ABC miniseries The Kennedys of Massachusetts (1990). These early acting experiences "meant nothing more than a day off from school" to Affleck, and he only began to consider a career as an actor when in high school. When he later moved to Los Angeles to pursue an acting career in earnest, his first film role was as a sociopathic teenager in Gus Van Sant's 1995 satirical comedy To Die For. During filming in Toronto, Affleck shared an apartment with co-star Joaquin Phoenix and they became close friends. Peter Travers of Rolling Stone praised Affleck's performance, saying he "skillfully capture[s] the pang of adolescence among no-hopers." However, Affleck then had a "disappointing" experience while making the 1996 drama Race the Sun and, "as soon as the film finished, I went to school."

While studying at Columbia, Affleck had a supporting role in Van Sant's Good Will Hunting (1997), written by his brother and their childhood friend Matt Damon. Despite arranging a first meeting between Van Sant and his brother to discuss the project, Affleck was reluctant to leave college temporarily to act in the film. He was eventually persuaded to play one of four friends living in South Boston – a role written specifically for him – and improvised many of his lines. Jay Carr of The Boston Globe praised the "emotional subtleties and variety" of the performances, and singled out "Casey Affleck's junior member of the quartet, dying to be taken as seriously as the others." Following the film's success, Affleck's career opportunities did not significantly improve. At the same time, his life became exposed to the public and parts of his life became "part of pop culture and public life." Also in 1997, he had a small role in Kevin Smith's Chasing Amy, starring his brother. He returned to university for a semester before quitting to focus on his acting career.

Affleck's career entered a "dark" period, with a series of supporting roles in critical and commercial failures. He later remarked: "It dawned on me late that I should be selective about what I do." In the independent comedy Desert Blue (1998), he starred opposite Kate Hudson as a small-town jock. Peter Stack of the San Francisco Chronicle felt that, while "interesting", his character was "entirely underdeveloped". In 1999, he made an uncredited cameo in the teen comedy American Pie and appeared as a punk rocker romantically involved with both Gaby Hoffmann and Christina Ricci's characters in the New Year's Eve ensemble comedy 200 Cigarettes. In the comedy Drowning Mona (2000), starring Danny DeVito, Affleck played a shy gardener suspected of murder. Elvis Mitchell of The New York Times acknowledged, in an otherwise negative review, that his role was "well played". Also in 2000, Affleck had a small role in the comedy Attention Shoppers and played Fortinbras in Ethan Hawke's Hamlet. He appeared as the brother of Heather Graham's character in the romantic comedy Committed (2000), with Emanuel Levy of Variety praising a "terrific" performance. Also in 2001, he had a small role in American Pie 2 and appeared in the teen slasher film Soul Survivors. Robert Koehler of Variety found him "bland" while Carla Meyer of the San Francisco Chronicle said that he did not make "much of an impression, [but may] have been too depressed to really act." One positive experience Affleck had during this period was working with Van Sant and cinematographer Harris Savides on Finding Forrester (2000) as Van Sant's assistant and technical consultant: "Can you imagine a better film school than that? Gus is not only somebody who I love a lot but is also who has taught me, maybe more than anybody else in film."

Affleck found a degree of commercial success when he was cast in Steven Soderbergh's heist comedy Ocean's Eleven (2001), starring George Clooney, Brad Pitt and Damon. In roles Soderbergh originally intended for Luke Wilson and Owen Wilson, Affleck and Scott Caan played Mormon brothers and wisecracking mechanics who help to rob three Las Vegas casinos simultaneously. While it was a "great, fun social experience", Affleck spent much of his time on set "being, like, 100 feet away from the camera in the background." He would later reprise his role in Ocean's Twelve (2004) and Ocean's Thirteen (2007).

In 2002, Affleck and Damon starred in Van Sant's experimental drama Gerry, playing two men who get lost while hiking in the desert. Affleck, Damon, and Van Sant conceived of the idea and wrote the screenplay together while living in neighboring New York apartments. The film, which had minimal dialogue, received mixed reviews. Affleck, who rarely watches his own films, said of Gerry in 2016: "That was an incredible experience. I saw one scene recently out of context at the Telluride Film Festival and I can't believe anyone ever sat through the whole thing. It probably works better as a whole but one scene lifted out – I thought, 'This is unbearable!'" Also in 2002, Affleck starred with Damon and then-girlfriend Summer Phoenix in a West End stage production of Kenneth Lonergan's This Is Our Youth. Lonergan and Affleck became friends during rehearsals, and Affleck later acted in workshop productions of Lonergan's plays in New York.

Affleck's first leading role was in 2006's little-seen independent comedy-drama Lonesome Jim, directed by Steve Buscemi. He played a depressed writer who returns from New York to live with his parents in Indiana, and begins a relationship with Liv Tyler's character. Buscemi has said he knew Affleck would be able to carry the film after watching his performance in Gerry. Stephen Hunter of The Washington Post remarked: "Affleck's interesting .. He probably can't be a star in big movies because his drawback is a voice that sounds like a snivel drawn through a wet nasal passage into a whine ... And yet in certain kinds of films – this kind – he's 100 percent authentic." Ty Burr of The Boston Globe said Affleck "gets so far under the skin of this semi-charming jerk that the performance becomes both brave and aggravating." However, Stephen Holden of The New York Times felt it "would be a stronger movie if Mr. Affleck had the wherewithal to bare more of the passive-aggressive rage inside ... a more resourceful actor would have used this blank slate to scrawl a thousand telling details." Also in 2006, he had a supporting role in the romantic comedy The Last Kiss as a friend of Zach Braff's character.

2007–2012: Breakthrough
Affleck had a breakthrough year in 2007, with the release of two films featuring critically acclaimed performances. The first of these performances was in the Western drama The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, in which he played Robert Ford to Brad Pitt's Jesse James. Affleck auditioned repeatedly for the role. While the director Andrew Dominik had seen Affleck in Gerry, he cast him partly because of his "beautiful-sounding voice. The voice is the thing that really gets you." Manohla Dargis of The New York Times described Affleck's performance as a "revelation" which "manages to make the character seem dumb and the actor wily and smart." Similarly, Claudia Puig of USA Today declared him a "real revelation [who] perfectly inhabits the role" while Todd McCarthy of Variety said Affleck made "an indelible impression as the insecure, physically unprepossessing weakling." Dana Stevens of Slate said "the movie belongs to Affleck [who] goes for broke in a wonderfully brave and weird performance as the craven naif Bob. Somehow he makes us want to flee this creep at top speed, even as we pray no harm will come to him." For his performance, Affleck was nominated for the Golden Globe Award, Screen Actors Guild Award and Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor.

While he was filming The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford in Calgary, Affleck was visited by his brother, who offered him the leading role in his directorial project, the Boston crime thriller Gone Baby Gone (2007). While his brother was a first-time director and in the midst of a career downturn, Affleck had confidence in the project: "I felt like I knew him better than anyone else did." His performance, as an inexperienced private investigator tasked with finding a missing child, earned Affleck further plaudits for his acting. Manohla Dargis of The New York Times said: "I'm not sure exactly when Casey Affleck became such a good actor ... Most actors want you to love them, but [he] doesn't seem to know that, or maybe he doesn't care." Jim Ridley of The Village Voice described him as "a major talent coming into his own" while Mick LaSalle of the San Francisco Chronicle remarked that "the revelation is Casey Affleck, who heretofore has been a rather wormy, uncharismatic screen presence." Ty Burr of The Boston Globe commented: "I'd never stopped to consider Casey Affleck as a movie star before, but under his big brother's tutelage, he blooms as a leading man of richly watchable savvy and intelligence."

While The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford and Gone Baby Gone were, respectively, a financial failure and a modest box office success, Affleck's acting career was widely believed to be at a turning point. However, he lost career momentum while directing I'm Still Here (2010), a divisive mockumentary about the musical career of his friend and then brother-in-law Joaquin Phoenix. While Affleck later clarified that it was "a planned, staged and scripted work of fiction", there was much media speculation during filming about whether Phoenix's public behavior was performance art or a genuine breakdown. Claudia Puig of USA Today remarked that, "whether truth or folly, it's not particularly well made. Even in the midst of Phoenix's most oddball and obsessive torment, it's boring ... What, exactly, is the point of a joke that nobody really gets?" Ty Burr of The Boston Globe described it as "an interesting but half-baked exercise in persona deconstruction, celebrity politics, and meta-meta-entertainment ... Parts of it are close to genius; most of it is actively torturous to watch." Kenneth Turan of the Los Angeles Times said the film "turns out to be much more interesting to speculate about than to actually watch." Reflecting on the experience in 2016, Affleck said: "We never thought people would actually think it was real ... In hindsight, we should have had a press junket and done talk shows and said how it was a mockumentary."

Affleck used his own money to fund I'm Still Here and, after running out of cash, filming was paused for a month to allow him to play a Texan serial killer in Michael Winterbottom's crime drama The Killer Inside Me (2010). Affleck later expressed regret over the film's graphic violence. Philip French of The Guardian found him "disturbingly brilliant" while Peter Travers of Rolling Stone praised "a mesmeric, implosively powerful performance." Mark Olsen of the Los Angeles Times said Affleck "showcases his uncanny ability to project a person holding two thoughts in his head at once, as he often gives away nothing in his face to convey the firestorm obviously raging in his soul." Affleck then had a supporting role in the heist comedy Tower Heist (2011) and voiced a character in the 2012 animation ParaNorman.

2013–present: Wider recognition
After spending "a big chunk of time" directing I'm Still Here and dealing with the subsequent backlash, Affleck returned to regular acting work in 2013. "It was ugly for a minute ... I sort of remembered why I liked acting and I missed it." In David Lowery's Ain't Them Bodies Saints (2013), Affleck and Rooney Mara starred as outlaw lovers in 1970s-era Texas. Affleck was drawn to the opportunity to play a character who "was a much better person than anyone thought", after a string of roles as "assassins or murderers or just creeps". Shannon M. Houston of Paste described him as the film's "standout actor": "Down to his very jawline, Affleck captures the physicality and feeling of a sincerely romantic outlaw." Betsy Sharkey of the Los Angeles Times remarked: "Affleck plays conflicted souls so very well ... Here you wish for a criminal's redemption." Matt Pais of the Chicago Tribune said: "He has great instincts when it comes to morally compromised anti-heroes, and without trolling for our sympathy, Affleck's Bob is more than just a collection of behaviors; it's a smartly considered performance." Sebastian Doggart of The Guardian said he "shows himself again to be a master of the criminal outsider" while Chuck Wilson of The Village Voice found him "flat-out heartbreaking".

The opportunity to act opposite Christian Bale in the drama Out of the Furnace "reinvigorated" Affleck and reminded him why he enjoyed acting. Claudia Puig of USA Today found his performance as an Iraq War veteran dealing with posttraumatic stress disorder "completely captivating ... The chemistry between Bale and Affleck is powerful, intensifying the credibility of their brotherly bond." Matt Pais of the Chicago Tribune said Affleck "finds something fierce and noble in uneven material and in his character's rage. He's not like any other actor in American movies." Ann Hornaday of The Washington Post described the performance as "a searing portrayal of a young man who pushes himself to the punishing physical limit in search of both money and catharsis." Manohla Dargis of The New York Times remarked that Affleck "can come across as intensely vulnerable on screen, which nicely works for a broken man like Rodney." In 2014, Affleck and Jessica Chastain had supporting roles in Christopher Nolan's science fiction film Interstellar as the grown-up children of Matthew McConaughey's character, with Todd McCarthy of The Hollywood Reporter describing his character as "thinly developed". Also in 2014, Affleck and producer John Powers Middleton launched the production company, The Affleck/Middleton Project.

Affleck starred in three films in 2016, the first two of which underperformed financially. In John Hillcoat's crime thriller Triple 9, Affleck played an uncorruptible detective. Mick LaSalle of the San Francisco Chronicle said he "arrests our attention. I wonder if any other screen actor has ever seemed so focused and so distracted at the same time. He thinks more than he says, and so we listen, trying to get the part he's leaving out." Justin Chang of Variety described him as "one of the most persuasive leading men of his generation" while Brogan Morris of Paste declared him "maybe Hollywood's best offbeat leading man ... Few actors can suggest so much with such quiet precision, and even here Affleck is compulsively watchable despite his undercooked character." In Disney's disaster drama The Finest Hours, Affleck played a taciturn engineer on board a sinking ship. David Sims of The Atlantic said he "gives the kind of measured, thought-out performance he's so eminently capable of, even if the film isn't complex enough to rise to his level ... He animates an introverted character with subtle mental busywork whenever he's on the screen." Sheri Linden of The Hollywood Reporter noted that he "manages to turn his man of few words into the movie's most compelling figure."

In his final role of 2016, Affleck starred as Lee Chandler, a grief-stricken loner, in Kenneth Lonergan's drama Manchester by the Sea. One of the film's producers, Matt Damon, initially intended to star in the film. When scheduling conflicts made this unfeasible, Damon agreed to step aside on the condition that he be replaced with Affleck. Lonergan readily agreed, remarking that Affleck was "the natural person to go to." Affleck had close relationships with both men and had previously offered notes on early drafts of the script. The film was a box office success, and Affleck's performance received widespread critical praise. A.O. Scott of The New York Times described it as "one of the most fiercely disciplined screen performances in recent memory. [He] conveys both Lee's inner avalanche of feeling and the numb decorum that holds it back."

Kenneth Turan of the Los Angeles Times praised his "quietly ferocious performance, his willingness to submerge himself into this character to an almost frightening extent." Ann Hornaday of The Washington Post said the film was "anchored by a quietly volcanic central performance by Casey Affleck, in a breathtaking breakout role he's long deserved." David Fear of Rolling Stone stated: "He's given impressive turns before [but] the way Affleck gradually shows you the man's bone-deep grief and emotional damage makes you believe that one of this generation's finest actors has simply been waiting to be coaxed out." Affleck won the National Board of Review, Critics' Choice, Golden Globe, BAFTA, and Academy Award for his performance.

After dropping out of Lowery's Pete's Dragon in order to star in Manchester by the Sea, Affleck reteamed with the director to star opposite Rooney Mara in the experimental drama A Ghost Story, which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in early 2017. Affleck's character dies suddenly at the outset and he spends much of the film covered by a white sheet with two eye-holes, haunting his former home. David Rooney of The Hollywood Reporter said Affleck's performance managed to resonate despite limited time onscreen. Peter Debruge of Variety said Affleck "has never been an easy actor to read. He's a low-charisma mumbler who tends to keep his characters' emotions bottled up, making him the rare performer who can convey as much with a sheet over his head as he does without." Jordan Hoffman of The Guardian described him as "cinema's finest mumbler ... I can't even tell if he's speaking or just emitting high-pitched vibrations anymore." In 2018, Affleck starred opposite Robert Redford in the outlaw drama The Old Man & the Gun, his third collaboration with Lowery.

In 2019, he directed, wrote and starred in the survival drama Light of My Life. It had its world premiere at the Berlin International Film Festival on February 8, 2019 and received positive reviews from film critics. Affleck next starred in Our Friend, opposite Dakota Johnson and Jason Segel, directed by Gabriela Cowperthwaite, based upon a true story revolving around a couple, whose best friend moves in for support, following a cancer diagnosis. which had its world premiere at the 2019 Toronto International Film Festival. Affleck next acted in and produced The World to Come, directed by Mona Fastvold alongside Katherine Waterston and Vanessa Kirby. In 2023, Affleck played the supporting role of military intelligence officer Boris Pash in Christopher Nolan's biopic Oppenheimer.

Relationships and family
Affleck was introduced to actress Summer Phoenix by her brother, Joaquin, in the late 1990s. They began dating in 2000, and acted together in both the 2000 film Committed and a 2002 stage production of This Is Our Youth. The couple became engaged in January 2004 and married on June 3, 2006, in Savannah, Georgia. They have two sons born in 2004 and 2007. On August 1, 2017, Phoenix officially filed for divorce, citing "irreconcilable differences", and it was finalized later that year. Affleck has said it was an amicable divorce and that they remain friends.

He has been in a relationship with actress Caylee Cowan since January 2021.

Alcoholism
In a 2016 interview, Affleck said that he had been sober for "almost three years ... My father was a disaster of a drinker, my grandmother was an alcoholic, my brother spent some time in rehab – it's in our genes."

Political views
In 2008, Affleck filmed an episode of documentary series 4Real, in which he visited the Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma, and remarked upon the progress they had made due largely to "their own resourcefulness and determination and their character, and not because of the goodness of our collective heart." During the 2016 presidential campaign, Affleck supported Hillary Clinton and characterized Donald Trump as "a dangerous fool". In 2017, multiple financial contributions to Trump were made by Affleck's production company, which he co-founded with John Powers Middleton. In a statement, Affleck denied involvement: "I had no knowledge of it, was never asked, and never would have authorized it ... The policies of the Trump administration, and the values they represent, are antithetical to everything I believe in."

Sexual harassment allegations
Affleck has settled two sexual harassment lawsuits out of court for an undisclosed amount.

In 2010, two of his former co-workers from I'm Still Here filed civil lawsuits against Affleck. Amanda White, one of the film's producers, sued Affleck for $2 million with multiple complaints including sexual harassment and breach of oral contract. She detailed numerous "uninvited and unwelcome sexual advances" in the workplace. White alleged that Affleck refused to honor the terms of the production agreement, including her fee, in retaliation.

The film's cinematographer, Magdalena Gorka, sued Affleck for $2.25 million with multiple complaints including intentional infliction of emotional distress and breach of oral contract. Gorka alleged that she had been subjected to "routine instances" of sexual harassment by crew members including Antony Langdon, "within the presence and with the active encouragement of Affleck."

Initially, Affleck denied the allegations and threatened to countersue. No countersuits were filed. His lawyer claimed, "Both women left the film in April 2009 and both were refused when they wanted to return", and "there was no mention of sexual harassment before June [2010]." The film's associate producer Nicole Acacio and an unnamed female editor both defended Affleck's conduct on set. The lawsuits were later settled out of court. Both women received credit for their work on the project; no details of any financial settlement were released.

Affleck addressed the allegations in a 2016 interview with The New York Times, stating: "It was settled to the satisfaction of all. I was hurt and upset — I am sure all were — but I am over it. It was an unfortunate situation — mostly for the innocent bystanders of the families of those involved." The allegations and lawsuits attracted scrutiny during the 2016–17 film awards season, when Affleck was recognized for his performance in Manchester by the Sea, which culminated in further controversy following his Best Actor win at the 89th Academy Awards. The following year, amidst the Me Too movement, Affleck withdrew from presenting the award for Best Actress at the 90th Academy Awards.

In a 2018 interview with the Associated Press, Affleck discussed the lawsuits and allegations in light of the Me Too movement. He characterized his behavior at the time of the lawsuits as defensive and said he has since worked to understand his own culpability. He acknowledged that the set of I'm Still Here was "an unprofessional environment" and that "I contributed to that unprofessional environment and I tolerated that kind of behavior from other people and I wish that I hadn't. And I regret a lot of that ... I behaved in a way and allowed others to behave in a way that was really unprofessional. And I'm sorry."

Philanthropy
Affleck has been a vegan since 1995. He has been involved with animal rights campaigns for both People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)  and Farm Sanctuary.

In 2017, Affleck supported the 37th Annual National Veterans Wheelchair Games hosted by Paralyzed Veterans of America. In January 2019, he attended the fourth annual Veterans Awards as a presenter.

In June 2020, Affleck, with his mother Christine, founded a fundraising effort, Stories from Tomorrow. The initiative was co-sponsored by Room to Read, WriteGirl and New Earth, an organization where Affleck is a board member. 'Stories from Tomorrow' matches original writing by children ages 5–18 with celebrities who read their work, which is then presented in video form. The money raised will be used to ensure that children around the world have access to education and food.

title: Casey Affleck


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Talk:List of computing and IT abbreviations

J2EE
Just to say that J2EE name is no longer used since 2006. It's now JEE. --JamesPoulson (talk) 17:26, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Merge
I'll be taking up the merge tonight. I'll try to do a good job, but I'm still fairly new, so if I mess up check on me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by No Brainer (talk • contribs) 08:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Shorter List
I suggest that the main page be broken into a number of smaller pages in the following way: Main page lists < 100 most used abbreviations (based on search statistics and common technologies, say) and move everything else into a number of alphabetized lists/pages.

Ooops
I'm sorry, I messed up the page several times today. I clicked save when I should have clicked 'preview'. I take the blame :-

PBMC
I deleted PBMC, as I believe this article is about "technical" computing and IT terms. PBMC (or PBMK), as far as I understand it, is used mostly by help desk support, to denigrate users, but I've never heard it used as a technical term. I don't want this article to devolve into just a bunch of slang and so I'm trying to nip it in the bud. IMHO, this is exactly what the linked Internet slang article is for.

Maybe we should rename the article to reflect that this is "technical" computing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.31.106.35 (talk • contribs).

 * I agree. It would be much more appropriate to name it something like "Technical Computing Terms". Foxjwill 03:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

What's this article for? Proposed radical trimming down.
It seems to me that the only value of this article would be if you come across an unfamiliar IT abbreviation, you could look it up here. But if the term has its own article, you don't need to come here, you could go straight there. So I propose that the list should be trimmed right down to only the redlinks. They're the only items with value - they at least explain what the abbreviation stands for, even if there's no more detail available in WP. Colonies Chris 09:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Sounds like a good idea. Poweroid 12:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not to me. Please don't do this. What if you have some idea of what an acronym/abbreviation is, but don't know it exactly? You can scan this list and maybe find it (this is assuming you know of this list's existence in the first place, but read on). But there's no guarantee that searching for it would turn up anything, especially if you're not spelling it right. I happened to come across this list when I searched for a bunch of different abbreviations all at once ("mmx apic..."). Just because you can't think of a good reason to have a list doesn't necessarily mean it will be useless to everyone else. - dcljr (talk) 00:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * " Not to me. Please don't do this. " !!! This is exactly how I wound up here and what i have used the list for sinceJSo9-10 (talk) 21:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Long Page
Creating a separate page for each alphabet will solve the problem. 202.177.160.176 14:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Merge from (misnamed) Computer jargon
This was proposed 2006-05-11 by User:Megapixie Supported. I don't think we need a redirect to here. Computer jargon should redirect to Jargon which also links to the Jargon File.--Boson 07:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Suport to the merge. Some of the entires in the computer jargon article are also in the List of copmuting and IT abbreviations article (ie: KISS, UI). The redirect to the Jargon File also seems like a good idea. -Gimmekat 16:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge This page is short, not wikified, and incomplete. Any "list of jargon" needs to be consolidated. David Spalding ( ☎ ✉ ✍  ) 14:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

REAL MEN (Search And Replace)
... Code in machine language and would never use an assembler, much less a Macro assembler... or so we said back when.  I just added an old formerly common term which seems to have passed into the twilight, though I've continued to use it since the mid-eighties for sure, and suspect since the mid 70's, but can't back that up. That was the day of $65,000 desk top computers (Bit-slice architectures by Tektronix and HP) and Mini-computers with so much power in three to five 6' tall rack cabinets with special air conditioned clean rooms, all costing in the serious hundreds of thousands.

I'm not sure this was the right article to post this in, but this is a email prod I was trying to sent to FOLDOC computing dictionaryhttp://foldoc.org/

''SAR meaning Search and Replace is a feature of most text editors (and word processing software). It is also a feature used in Regular Expression Parsing, such as in the pre-processing pass in a compiler, where a macro will be replaced by it's meaning. The abbreviation 'SAR' was used in the manuals for some PDP/VAX based systems before 1984.

(I don't know any earlier cites... but the term and recollection date to December of that year-- which was the month after I separated from my now late ex-wife, who passed a few weeks ago, and the month where I met the current Mrs. B, so I'm sure of that date at least.) One neat feature of that command line SAR facility was it would allow one to change meta-characters on the fly and I've never seen it since on any other systems... it was perhaps just a feature of that FORTRAN based test language, but I recollect it being part of the VAX kernals, and both working the same way, I may also at my age, be recollecting wrongly. No 'I fear nothing' youthful foolishnes for me!

"//Goober/Foober//" was the normal Search and Replace syntax, iirc, and all of one's Goobers were soon Foober. There was a switch of some sort, to let you confirm at each line--and a range parameter if you wanted to limit the search, say, between lines 1028 and 2044. It would also do an inverse order search--just specify the number range backwards normal. But ///$$Parent/Daughter/child$$ would find that strings line number, you could put a conditional after it evaluated true and put a second SAR into the command for acting only on that specific line... which was unique powerful for replacing around middles or just locating the proper middle in the midst of ambiguity.

Caveat--The PDP (11? probable or was it PDP-8 and VAX-11? IIRC, the VAX-11 was the circuit board (and Chip set!) version first in wide production, So that was used in the two newest systems by different manufacturers. A big departure from the big box Mini-computers of that day.) and VAX systems were then used in embedded hardware test systems, fuctional testing and component testing, and iirc, the VAX-11 was in both the new functional printed wiring board (PWB or sometimes PCB) tester and the Component Environmental Test system--a new acquisition--as the U.S. government began requiring vendor sampling tests in military programs of the time (because they caught Texas Instruments and I believe Fairchild Semiconductor of the day cheating on AQL tests per MIL-SPECs).

Hence General Electric Ordnance Systems Division bought such a tester as a pre-requisite to being able to produce circuit boards for Trident III, Aegis, and at least one other Air force build which I no longer recollect. They brought me in as a contract engineer as the department was staffed by newbie engineers fresh caught out of school. I've spent a better 15 months working in lots of places!  Pittsfield, MA was a bit remote.

Here's a cite, and google for definition had a second hit, but I can't seem to access the page. Love your project-- a good contribution to the world, that. Thanks very much.''

Anyways, guys and gals, that topic might qualify as R with possibilities or such. I figure we ought have something on it somewhere, but the phrase doesn't turn up. Best regards, // Fra nkB 19:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd be inclined to keep SAR as an abbreviation if we can find a a reliable reference. I'd say FOLDOC qualifies.  I haven't done much looking, but the references provided haven't listed the term SAR as an abbreviation, so I've removed it.  Also, FYI, a bit difficult to follow your comments.  70.250.178.31 (talk) 04:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Link spamming at bottom of page
I checked some of the external links at the bottom and they all appear to be Google search results or you enter a term and Google search returns the results including Google ads. Others are advertisement filled pages with fewer terms and information than the article itself. I'm cleaning this up. Calltech 21:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Suggestions

 * KSP (on led cables)
 * SW (also)
 * What about sufixes on Classic Cars? Like GT, GS, GTX, GX2, GTO, etc.. (Khullah 02:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC))
 * If they have an objective meaning, I'd think they are fair game, but it would likely be best to include ones that are actually used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.53.228.128 (talk) 22:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Suggested External Links

 * Computing Category on abbreviations.com
 * Technology Category on all-acronyms.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.42.23.73 (talk) 07:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorting
I've noted off-and-on that the sorting on this page seems to get screwed up. Please note that the ordering is by *abbreviation*, not by the term abbreviated, as the article is about abbreviations. If you notice the list is not sorted by abbreviation, please exercise your capacity to fix this! 70.247.163.135 (talk) 00:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Split into Hardware/Software?
I'm considering whether or not to split this list into two lists to make it more manageable. The most obvious way to split this article, as far as I can see, is to split it into two articles, one for hardware, and one for software, as that distinction seems to be easier to make than others, such as computing/computer/IT/Internet/Web/etc.

I'm suggesting List of computing hardware abbreviations and List of computing software abbreviations. Any other suggestions? Does a split even make sense? 70.250.178.31 (talk) 03:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 * As stated above in What's this article for? Proposed radical trimming down. "please do not change" this list is what it is and works great as is. If a split is needed please leave this list as is and add the split. Thanks.JSo9-10 (talk) 21:29, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

 * It would not help since someone looking up an abbreviation would need to know if it is a HW or SW Abbreviation. Removing split tag due to little discussion in 1.5 yearsOp47 (talk) 16:13, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Minor suggested additions
perhaps TAR, OIP (operator interface panel), VNC, MTBF, ...--Billymac00 (talk) 03:50, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

 * My two cents (you are welcome to Be bold):

 * tar is a file format, which are frowned upon in this article--they could be an article all to themselves
 * operator interface panel--I'm not sure what this is; is it notable enough to include?
 * VNC should definitely be added if it isn't already
 * MTBF may be kind of borderline, as it isn't very specific to computers or IT

 * Thanks for the suggestions! Please keep them coming.  70.247.169.197 (talk) 20:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Upper Case Used Incorrectly
On this page, many of these acronyms are for terms that are NOT proper names but are written out incorrectly using upper case. This isn't the correct style for a glossary (or anywhere else). We should only put words in upper case if it's a proper name.

CORRECT:

ANSI—American National Standards Institute

INCORRECT:

API—Application Programming Interface (should be "application programming interface").

A small hill I die on every day. 198.103.167.20 (talk) 14:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Title of Page is Wrong
This page does NOT contain abbreviations. It is just acronynms. MOST abbreviations are shortened versions of a single word and especially in IT, if a phrase is to be abbreviated, in almost all cases, it is made into an acronym. I think most people if they are wanting an abbreviation (as opposed to an acronym), they are looking for something this page does not provide. Granted, that will be only a very small percentage of hits, but I think it would be best to change the title of the page to be more accurate. I would do it myself, but I am not real familiar with wikipedia etiquette.

Sorry, forgot signature: Laserray7

 * As stated above in What's this article for? Proposed radical trimming down, and Split into Hardware/Software. "please do not change" this list is what it is and works great as is IMHO. If a change of "the title of the page to be more accurate" is needed please leave this list as is and add the "Change", Disambiguation + / ~ Links. If the title is changed to list of "acronynms" it would soon be suggested that it be merged then its usefulness would be lost (as finding an IT abbreviation in the list of acronynms would be very difficult for someone with dyslexia, as is the list is short and easier to navigate ).    JSo9-10 (talk) 02:11, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't really think the title is wrong, per se. Acronyms are abbreviations.  My primary interest is in acronyms, which is why I've added so many over the years.  I suspect others have more of an interest in other types of abbreviations.  Those are welcome here as well, as they are all in scope. 70.247.161.12 (talk) 02:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Saint-Jean

Saint-Jean (French for Saint John) may refer to:

Belgium

 * Sint-Jan, a borough of Ypres, sometimes referenced as Saint-Jean in a World War I-related context

Canada

 * Lac Saint-Jean
 * Lac-Saint-Jean-Est Regional County Municipality
 * L'Anse-Saint-Jean, Quebec
 * Rivière-Saint-Jean, Gaspésie, Quebec, unorganized territory
 * Rivière-Saint-Jean, Quebec, municipality in Côte-Nord region
 * Saint-André-du-Lac-Saint-Jean, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean (federal electoral district) in Quebec
 * Saint-Jean (provincial electoral district) in Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-Baptiste, Quebec City, a neighbourhood in Quebec City
 * Saint-Jean-Baptiste, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-Chrysostome, former municipality now part of Lévis, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-Chrysostome, community in Saint-Chrysostome, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-de-Brébeuf, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-de-Cherbourg, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-de-Dieu, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Lande, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-de-l'Île-d'Orléans
 * Saint-Jean-de-Matha, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-des-Piles, former municipality now part of Shawinigan, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-Port-Joli, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-sur-le-Lac, a community part of Mont-Laurier, Quebec
 * Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu (formerly St. Johns and Fort St-Jean)

Channel Islands

 * Saint John, Jersey

France

 * Saint-Jean-aux-Amognes, in the Nièvre department
 * Saint-Jean-aux-Bois, Ardennes, in the Ardennes department
 * Saint-Jean-aux-Bois, Oise, in the Oise department
 * Saint-Jean-Bonnefonds, in the Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-Brévelay, in the Morbihan department
 * Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat, in the Alpes-Maritimes department
 * Saint-Jean-Chambre, in the Ardèche department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Aigues-Vives, in the Ariège department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Alcapiès, in the Aveyron department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Angély, in the Charente-Maritime department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Angle, in the Charente-Maritime department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Ardières, in the Rhône department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Arves, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Arvey, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Assé, in the Sarthe department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Ataux, in the Dordogne department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Aubrigoux, in the Haute-Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Aulps, in the Haute-Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Avelanne, in the Isère department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Barrou, in the Aude department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Bassel, in the Moselle department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Beauregard, in the Essonne department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Belleville, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Beugné, in the Vendée department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Blaignac, in the Gironde department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Bœuf, in the Côte-d'Or department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Boiseau, in the Loire-Atlantique department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Bonneval, in the Aube department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Bournay, in the Isère department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Braye, in the Loiret department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Buèges, in the Hérault department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Ceyrargues, in the Gard department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Chevelu, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Côle, in the Dordogne department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Cornies, in the Hérault department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Couz, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Crieulon, in the Gard department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Cuculles, in the Hérault department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Daye, in the Manche department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Duras, in the Lot-et-Garonne department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Folleville, in the Seine-Maritime department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Fos, in the Hérault department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Gonville, in the Ain department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Blaquière, in the Hérault department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Croix, in the Maine-et-Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Forêt, in the Orne department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Haize, in the Manche department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Léqueraye, in the Eure department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Motte, in the Sarthe department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Neuville, in the Seine-Maritime department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Porte, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Rivière, in the Manche department
 * Saint-Jean-de-la-Ruelle, in the Loiret department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Laur, in the Lot department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Lier, in the Landes department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Linières, in the Maine-et-Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Liversay, in the Charente-Maritime department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Livet, in the Calvados department
 * Saint-Jean-Delnous, in the Aveyron department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Losne, in the Côte-d'Or department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Luz, in the Pyrénées-Atlantiques department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Marcel, in the Tarn department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Marsacq, in the Landes department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Maruéjols-et-Avéjan, in the Gard department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne, in the Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Minervois, in the Hérault department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Moirans, in the Isère department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Monts, in the Vendée department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Muzols, in the Ardèche department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Nay, in the Haute-Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Niost, in the Ain department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Paracol, in the Aude department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Rebervilliers, in the Eure-et-Loir department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Rives, in the Tarn department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Sauves, in the Vienne department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Savigny, in the Manche department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Baisants, in the Manche department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Bois, in the Orne department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Champs, in the Manche department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Échelles, in the Sarthe department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Serres, in the Gard department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Essartiers, in the Calvados department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Sixt, in the Haute-Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Mauvrets, in the Maine-et-Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Ollières, in the Puy-de-Dôme department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Soudain, in the Isère department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Estissac, in the Dordogne department
 * Saint-Jean-des-Vignes, in the Rhône department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Tholome, in the Haute-Savoie department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Thouars, in the Deux-Sèvres department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Thurac, in the Lot-et-Garonne department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Thurigneux, in the Ain department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Touslas, in the Rhône department
 * Saint-Jean-d'Étreux, in the Jura department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Trézy, in the Saône-et-Loire department
 * Saint-Jean-de-Valériscle, in the Gard department
 * Saint-Jean-du-Gard, in the Gard department
 * Saint-Jean-en-Royans, in the Isère department
 * Saint-Jean-la-Bussière, in the Rhône department
 * Saint-Jean, Haute-Garonne, in the Haute-Garonne department
 * Saint-Jean, Saint Barthélemy, an area of Saint Barthélemy in the Caribbean

Haiti

 * Saint-Jean-du-Sud, a municipality in the Sud Department of Haiti
 * Saint-Jean, Saint-Jean-du-Sud, Haiti, the main town in the Saint-Jean-du-Sud municipality

Switzerland

 * Saint-Jean, Switzerland, in the Canton of Valais

People

 * John the Baptist (Saint Jean-Baptiste) (died c. 30)
 * Jean de Lalande (died 1646)
 * Jean de Brébeuf (1593-1649)
 * John Eudes (Jean Eudes) (1601-1680)
 * Jean-Baptiste de La Salle (1651-1719)
 * Jean-Charles Cornay (1809-1837)
 * John Gabriel Perboyre (Jean-Gabriel Perboyre) (1802-1840)
 * John Vianney (Jean-Baptiste-Marie Vianney (1786-1859)

Feminized

 * Joan of Arc (Jeanne d’Arc) (1412-1431)
 * Joan of France, Duchess of Berry (1464-1505)
 * Jeanne de Lestonnac (1556-1640)
 * Jeanne Delanoue (1666-1736)

Other uses

 * La Saint-Jean or Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, Quebec's National Holiday
 * Cathédrale Saint-Jean-Baptiste de Lyon, a Roman Catholic cathedral in Lyon, France

title: Saint-Jean


text:
Ivyann Schwan

Ivyann Schwan (born November 14, 1983) is an American retired actress. She has starred in the movies Parenthood and Problem Child 2. She has appeared in various TV shows such as Bill Nye the Science Guy and The Jenny Jones Show. Schwan has been on stage in such productions as Miracle on 34th Street and The Sound of Music. She currently models for ads such as J.C. Penney and Kellogg's Rice Krispies. She also performs with the Olympic World Champion figure skaters in Sun Valley, Georgia. She co-narrated a two-hour charity ice special and emceed a concert for New Kids on the Block. She works with Fred Frank at his Roadshow Music Corporation, a company with a gold and platinum track record, several times a year. A highlight in her singing career was when she was invited to sing the National Anthem at a Seattle SuperSonics home game. Ivyann released her first album, Daisies, in 2000.

Personal life
Schwan's mother, Donna, served as her manager during her child acting career and was also deeply religious, so much so that she turned down an audition for her daughter for the role of Claudia in the film Interview with the Vampire (which eventually went to Kirsten Dunst).

In a 2012 interview, Schwan revealed that she had become a mother.

Filmography

 * Parenthood – Patty (1989)
 * Problem Child 2 – Trixie Young (1991)

Stage performance

 * The Sound of Music

Albums

 * Daisies (2000)

title: Ivyann Schwan


text:
Talk:God game

Harvest Moon / Animal Crossing
I wouldn't call Harvest Moon or Animal Crossing god games; the player's control over those games is solely through their avatar, unlike The Sims (for example) where you can make changes to the world directly. N2 22:16, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Additions
I added authors, publishers, systems, years for the major titles and separated the individual and the city/nation/world games. Anything look like it needs fixing after this revision? Coll7 07:04, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I also added major co-authors for more recent games (if publicly credited), where multiple designers are involved. Any comments?  Coll7 00:33, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't have Age of Empires on the list if you don't have other RTS games as well (such as starcraft, warcraft) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChessAndCookies (talk • contribs) 10:26, 31 December 2005

 * I removed the following games (see also next section for suggested definition legitimising the excision):
 * Age of Empires by Rick Goodman, Bruce Shelley et al at Ensemble Studios, published by Microsoft for PC (1991) - This is clearly an RTS title, and recognised as such. Bringing it into the GG genre only confuse things.
 * SimCity by Will Wright, published by Maxis for many systems (1989) - This is equally clearly an City-building game, and fact THE c-b game: GG is unlikely to be recognised as a superset of neither strategy nor c-b games.
 * Civilization by Sid Meier, published by Microprose for many systems - Direct control over units. No divine powers. "Epic civil simulation" or something...
 * Spore by Will Wright, to be published by Electronic Arts for the PC - considered an RTS game, similar to unnatural selection if my memory serves me right.
 * Mikademus 12:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Hold on there, just as Actraiser isn't a god game from start to finish, neither is Spore. If you watch his presentation it turns into a god game about 1/2 way through the presentation, right when they player gains the UFO and can freely terraform and populate other planets. I propose restoring Spore back on the list and adding caveats to its and Actraiser's entries. Asdfff 14:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC) (Comment withheld until Spore's release, of course. Asdfff 10:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC) )

Definition
A god game is a game where you play the role of a god, not a game where you control people. In a god game, you will have INDIRECT control over the livings while in a simulation or normal strategy game you will have DIRECT control over the livings. So black and white, populous, actraiser and the like are god games but civilisation, starcraft, age of empires and the like are not. Bragador 19:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I see the distinction you're trying to make, but there are aspects of each subset of games listed above that could be used to argue for them being in the other "camp." I'm not sure that "selecting human beings and giving them orders" necessarily disqualifies a game because sometimes those are "units," sometimes they are intended to be individuals, etc.  If the designer postulates that you're a City Planner (as in SimCity) does that explicitly mean it isn't a God Game?  On the other hand, I have no brilliant one-sentence definition to offer at the moment.  I will think about it to see if I can add value to the discussion instead of merely pointing out the issue is complicated.  Coll7 00:25, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmm, good point. And indeed I do feel that if it says you are a mayor, for exemple, that the game shouldn't be considered as a "god game" but as a "mayor sim" or "City Sim". I think we may be forgetting that all these games are strategy games. Some are about being a god "god games" other are about being something else. That's how I see it... Bragador 02:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Heh, what about the term "influential entity sim" as the superset of God games and City-building games, and in fact all straetgy games?
 * Seriously though: first, the distionction between GG and RTS/RTT/strategy in general that as a god you can only influence (regardless of how direct or indirect) your subjects rather than outright order them is sound. Further, GGs can be distinguised from City-building games (mayor sims) in that GGs are generally expansionalistic or antagonistic in nature, while C-B games are principally always economic simulation game (I took the liberty of creating that page while writing this), i.e. growth in GGs comes "directly" from conquests or conversions, while growth in C-B games comes "indirectly" from policies and strategic decisions. So, what about a definition along these lines?:
 * "God games are strategy games of expansion and dominance where you play the role of a supernatural entity who can affect the world and influence his subjects but not directly order them". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikademus (talk • contribs) 12:03, 23 February 2006

 * I'm not sure it is exactly that... Did anybody play the sandbox of god ? It is a god game but there is no conquest. Well some scenarios make humans fight the rabbit people but the game is not really about that. You should try it out to see my point and it's free ! http://www.download-game.com/The_Sandbox_of_God_Download.htm Also, I found a nice description at http://www.rakrent.com/rtsc/html/glossary3.htm that explains my vision of a god game perfectly : God games are similar to real time strategy games, except you play the part of a minor deity lording it over over a tribe of devout believers instead of a commander running a military campaign. The genre was established by the Populous series (and further refined in Black & White). Rather than managing an economy based on harvested resources, you instead have a population of devout followers whose collective outpourings of worship are translated into "Mana". Mana is a reservoir of energy used to perform miracles for your right thinking followers or drop catastrophe upon the misguided Heathens who follow your enemies. The more devoted followers, the more Mana you collect and the more your Godly powers increase to elevate your worshippers and smite their enemies. Tornados, Tidal waves, volcanos, earthquakes, plagues, rain of fire, bottomless swamps, you name it - God games get pretty spectacular when they get going. What do you all think ? Bragador 14:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I like the difinition you provided to an extent, but I have issues with it too. First of all we must realise that we will never create a perfect definition of anything: there will always be counter-exampels, particularily so since many (including me) enjoys crossing boundaries. A good definition will cover most falling within the category, but not everything recognised as belonging to it. Secondly, that definition is expressed as distinguished from RTS games. Third, though a good definition of some GGs, it is also a too restrictive and exclusive definition. If we break it down, it says that GGs must consist of
 * Real-time (Problematic: I can certainly envision turn-based GGs)
 * Strategy (Problematic: I can imagine tactical GGs)
 * You as a Deity ((Agreed, though "entity with God-like powers" is less restrictuve)
 * You as a MINOR Deity ((Problematic)
 * You ruling a tribe (of "devout believers") (Again, too exclusive)
 * Worship produce "mana" (Restrictive)
 * Interaction through miracles (-"-)
 * Miracles cost mana (-"-)
 * So, in short, that definition encertains that the only God Games will be Populous and Black & White, while f.i. SimEarth and SimLife, which definately are god games, are excluded.
 * As an alternative alternative, incorporating your suggestion, how about this?:
 * In God games you play the role of an entity with supernatural entities, often a god or deity, that can interact with the world in various powerful ways. Characteristic to God games is all or a combination of any or all of the following:
 * * Real-time gameplay
 * * Strategy games of expansion and dominance
 * * As God you can affect the world and influence your subjects but not directly order them (no click-select-order gameplay)
 * * The game is observed from an aloft, elevated porspective
 * * Actions taken by you tend to be interventions into a self-sustaining system (rather than ongoing interactive), like miracles or calamities
 * This followed by screenshots and short feature and gameplay descriptions of some more influential titles (Populous, B&W, SimEarth). Mikademus 15:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Well since I provided the game "the sandbox of god" as an example of a god game earlier, I agree that we can forget the real time gameplay tag. Again, I agree that simearth can be seen as a god game but I don't know about simlife (will have to check it out, never heard of it). So a game of "expansion and dominance" seems to be restrictive... I think we can come out with a difinition that doesn't include "Characteristic to God games is all or a combination of any or all of the following:" So far, a good description in my opinion would be :
 * As God you can affect the world and influence your subjects but not directly order them (no click-select-order gameplay)
 * The game is observed from an aloft, elevated porspective
 * Actions taken by you tend to be interventions into a self-sustaining system (rather than ongoing interactive), like miracles or calamities
 * Bragador 21:08, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I'm thinking about "Strategy games of expansion and dominance" and I'm not sure if it's good or not... What do you mean by "expansion" ? Do you mean like the game must focus on conquering the world ? And what do you mean by "dominance" ? Bragador 21:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * First, thanks for a good discussion! About the "expansion" and "dominance", I was thinking about some of the games I've played I'd immediately recognise as "god games" (take Populous, B&W, Heaven & Hell), and they are generally about expanding and establishing dominance over territories and followers. However, SimEarth is not about this (remember Will Wright's notion that his games are toys rather than games, i.e. they can be played without having to be "won"). So though many GGs will and does revolve around expanding one's dominion, it is questionable if that is tenable as a required criterium. However, as of now -sleep-deprived and slightly wobbly- I feel relatively confident that most, if not all, GGs can be subsumed under some or all of the four "(1) expand dominion", "(2) influence, not click-select-order", "(3) aloft" and "(4) interventions" critera, but unfortunately equally certain that most will not fullfill all these. However, to avoid the kind of conditional definition above it could simply be rephrased into something along the lines of "God games cast you in the position of an entity with divine or supernatural powers and generally feature a combination of (1), (2), (3) and (4)". Mikademus 22:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * ah ok I see what you were trying to say. Well I also agree that GG will not always be about dominance and expansio so what about dropping the item ? After all we are trying to define the "core" of a GG... or ARE we ? (hehe stupid reference to the tv show Friends, sorry :D). For simearth I know what you mean but you do have "mana" that you can use to create life and tons of devastating apocalyptic mayhem. And because you can create tornadoes, earthquakes and the like in SimCity, and since you "influence them" by zoning the city and not controlling directly you citizens, I think in the end the game could be a God game (I don't rememebr who said it was in the first place but anyway). Anyhow, I'm pretty confident that these 3 points you mentioned should be the definition
 * 'As God you can affect the world and influence your subjects but not directly order them (no click-select-order gameplay)''
 * The game is observed from an aloft, elevated porspective
 * Actions taken by you tend to be interventions into a self-sustaining system (rather than ongoing interactive''), like miracles or calamities'
 * Bragador 21:57, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Heh, Family Guy, let's not go down that off-topic tangent ;) Anyway, about SimCity being a GG due to disasters, unlike in Populas/B&W etc the disaster you can invoke in SimCity are not really "your" doing, or an integral part of the gameplay (unlike B&W's miracles etc), they're just a megolomaniac bonus included to let you vent your frustration or test the robustness of your city's deisgn (or an outlet of sadistic desires). I.e., they are not a "I will now use my Powers to summon a tornado!" but rather an "Oops! A tornado happened to happen! *grin*..." feature. Come to think of it, this probably deserves a header or paragraph of its own in the article.
 * Back to the definition. Since we seems to have chiseled out something roughly capturing the core of typical GGs I've taken the liberty of summing up our discussion into a new initial paragraph in the article including a definition and miniscule discussion, replacing the previous, unsatisfactory one. Feel free to expand or adjust, etc. Mikademus 13:03, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I really like the result. The added section about the simcity games is a very good idea and more importantly I now support your objection about SimCity being a god game. The only thing I find weird on the front page is "features some or all of these recognisable traits". I find it strange that a god game could work without any of the basic stuff you put on the list. I would suggest saying "features these recognisable traits" instead. I just don't see a god game with one fo the traits that's all. If you have an example feel free to educate me. Also I just figured that "The world is relatively self-sustaining and actions taken by you tend to be interventions into that system, for instance in the form of miracles or invocing calamities, rather than necessary for the continual progress of the game." is actually 2 criterias. What about splitting it in two : "The world is relatively self-sustaining" and "actions taken by you tend to be interventions into that system, for instance in the form of miracles or invocing calamities, rather than necessary for the continual progress of the game" ? Bragador 17:12, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

 * You bring forth good points! I looked over the points and the only one of the three that really can be removed is the "aloft perspective", so I moved it into the qualitative description underneat instead. I also split the first one like you suggested, and atm I can't see that it excludes any GG I know of. Mikademus 08:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Accounting for the quirks of turn-based games
Well since we restarted a discussion about the game in private I figured we could do it here in public. You said a game could be self sustaining and turn-based and I see your point if you can chose to "pass your turn". But what do we do for games that force you to do one action/miracle per turn ? That's why I changed first critaria but it may not be correct yet. For turn-based games I have the sandbox of god in mind since I think nobody else made a turn-based "god game" so if you want to try it to know what I mean please go forth. It's only 6 megs I think and it's free. In this way you'll be able to judge if it is a god game or not in your opinion. Bragador 14:10, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I added a criteria explaining the whole thing. I think it's adequate. You can comment on it to see if we keep it that way or not. Also, I noticed one point is saying "Actions taken by the player tend to be interventions into that system, for instance in the form of miracles or invoking calamities, rather than necessary for the continual progress of the game". I think you forgot a word in the where I put the words in bold. I wasn't too sure what you wanted to say so I figured I could just point the mistake to you. Also, "rather than necessary for the continual progress of the game" mays be redundant. I wonder if it is really necessary to point it out or if we could just do with "Actions taken by the player tend to be interventions into that system, for instance in the form of miracles or invoking calamities". What do you think ? Bragador 14:21, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I understand what you're trying to say. To avoid adding additional points making the definition unwieldy and technical I rephrased "input" to "intervention" and swapped places of the two original definitions. Now I think it says the same thing as you were getting at without mentioning turn-based or real-time. Also, did I fix the grammatical mistake you saw? Perhaps the subordinate clause is somewhat redundant but I thought it removed potential ambigiutity. --Mikademus 18:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Actions taken by the player tend to be interventions into the system of the game world, for instance in the form of miracles or invoking calamities, rather than a necessity for its continual progression. As you can see, the main sentence is: "Actions taken by the player tend to be interventions into the system of the game world rather than a necessity for its continual progression.". So I feel ike it doesn't "flow" too well. Perhaps you could say something like : "Actions taken by the player tend to be optional interventions into the system of the game world rather than being actions necessary for its continual progression." ? Is this what you were trying to say ? I still feel that the points don't really apply for turn based games in which you don't necessary have the options of not doing anything since the definition tends to imply the option of not doing anything as a prerequisite of "self-sustaining world". Aside of that the whole thing is all right imho. Bragador 18:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not one to feel protective about trivial phrasings, so please feel free to slick up what you find lacking, though "optional intervention" sounds a bit redundant (doubled-up) in the context. I can understand that the definition wouldn't apply for a click-progressed game where every click by necessity entails an action --such a game design voids the very concept of "(optional) intervention"-- but since the definition as it is is general yet powerful enough to aestetically and agreeably delimit the GG genre, couldn't an alternative solution be a paragraph about the game in question in the "God games" section, along with inserting the word "generally" in the first paragraph (-->"God games are generally characterised"...)? --Mikademus 22:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I think I found a way... I removed the last part of the second point which is now "The game world is relatively self-sustaining and persistent." So by removing "even without any player intervention" it fixes the problem. It makes it more general and less technical too which is what you want right ? Of course it doesn't REALLY fix the turn based problem since we are stating the game is self sustaining and persistent, but it removes the focus off the player intervention part. Obviously, a turn-based game couldn't be self-sustaining and persistent. What do you think ? And yeah I could always make a small section on turn-based god games. Bragador 00:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

 * That's looks fine with me, like you say: it's more general but not less descriptive. I don't think you should worry about making the definition "too perfect" (so as to contain the sandbox game), we will never reach a perfect definition, at least not without destroying all prosaic value of it. And since turn-based GGs are such a very peripheral sub-category --is there even another one beyond sandbox? Or was SimEarth turn-based?, I don't remember-- they should probably be treated qualitatively (described as a special case), if you it is significant enough to warrant mentioning, rather than be allowed to problematise the core definition. Anyway, I think we should extend our flexible pseudopods and pat our backs a bit for rehauling this article from a disparate jumble into something quite good and relevant! --Mikademus 11:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is any other turn based game in that genre. But many websites tend to use wikipedia articles to back their claims so I tend to be picky. Anyway I think the article is fine like it is too. I'm not going to touch it any more than that. Bragador 15:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sandbox of God? Bragador?
Who is Bragador? Why does he keep bringing up Sandbox of God? I tried it out and besides Bragador's references to its references it's an extremely insignificant game. In fact the only siginificance is that it's made in Game Maker 6.1. It's not historically significant like Commander Keen or Space Goose, it's not commercially significant, it's not culturally significant. It's just a project someone on the Game Maker forums thought was cool and decided to dedicate an entire definition arugument on wikipedia to. It's a puzzle game at best, a god game by no means. To call it a god game would be calling Lemmings a god game. That it is turned based is true. That it is interactive is obvious. That it is a god game, or that it belongs on this page, not so much.

Unless someone gives me an extremely good reason, quoting wikipedia guidelines, I will strike all mentions of it from the article. And from that insiginificant sentence from the definition paragraph that seemed to have occupied all of you pretty nicely. Seeing it occupy an entry alongside Actraiser, B/W, and Populous is insulting to me as a gamer. Having it attached as a caveat in the definition paragraph is arrogance.

In fact reading the entire "definition" section on this talk page it seems Bradagor has been the one getting all of you to devote reams of text defining an otherwise blisteringly easily demarcated genre. Sandbox of God doesn't belong here, maybe on "List of independently developed games" or "List of Game Maker-based games" or "List of small puzzle games". Asdfff 14:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * It's good to see someone wanting to help wikipedia get better with such a great passion and adult behavior. I'm also proud you obviously understood the game Sandbox of God was used to show all possible facets a god game can have. Moreover, I'm sure you were joking so I laughed thanks to you. Of course we all know that a game doesn't have to be commercially significant or culturally significant to exist. Indie games, music and movies tend to bring new ideas and gameplay that are not available in the mainstream products. This is why they have even more weight in debates. Thanks for your time. Bragador 22:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Still waiting for justification using official wikipedia guidelines. Thanking me for my time isn't justification. I'd overjoyed I'm able to bring some joy, sunshine, and laughter into a what must be an otherwise comparatively boring life. Asdfff 01:00, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Glad to hear it. Please keep us informed. If you do find a rule against knowledge, just copy paste it and we'll see what we can do. Meanwhile, I hope you can still enjoy your life as a gamer without being too insulted.Bragador 21:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Two official guidelines used for removal of Sandbox of God references
I'll now be using Trivia guidelines to recommend the removal of Sandbox of God mentions. Wikipedia is definitely not an indiscriminate colletion of information, and Sandbox is an insignificant game. By the same logic, I can make an ASCII non-realtime, modified variant of "Game of Life" demo and include it on this page, but it will neither help with the definition of a God Game nor be important enough to be included in the "list of". This isn't so much a ruling against knowledge as you've stated, as it is a rule against unimportant knowledge.

Not only that, but as a very basic wikipedia principle, wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. I don't know where this guideline is located precisely but I've come across it more than a few times on other talk pages. Using Sandbox of God to branch off a _subset-of-1_ sub-definition of a long-existing genre is definitely not what Game Genre entry is for. If anything Sandbox of God belongs solely in "See Also" with all mentions of turn-based moved to the page for that game.

No_original_research provides an overly detailed guideline for what I'm trying to state. Specifically, [do not] "[provide] new definitions of pre-existing terms" or "introduce an argument, without citing a reputable source for that argument, that purports to refute or support another idea, theory, argument, or position" and most importantly,

[Do not] "[introduce] an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source".

As a last note, I unconditionally apologize for starting off and continuing the discussion overly zealous.

The reaction was solely to the gut feeling that some basic principle of wikipedia was unconciously being bent especially across multiple editors while whittling down and gluing on multiple definitions for an otherwise easily demarcated genre.

I feel my two points, backed up by official guidelines, are imperviously valid. I will wait for the appropriate interim for other editors of this entry to pitch in on this matter before reverting my edits.

Asdfff 09:59, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Bragadow, would Asdfff's suggestion "If anything Sandbox of God belongs solely in 'See Also' with all mentions of turn-based moved to the page for that game" be an acceptable compromise for you? I can understand both sides here: on the one hand the genre is relatively sparsly populated and as such even a relatively insignificant game could be argued to deserve mentioning (I have never played the game in question so I do not know how significant etc it is). On the other hand, it seems to me that Asdfff's main concert is not with the Sandbox game itself but that it is given the prominent position of inside the initial paragraphs, thus in a way contributing to defining the genre. Thus, one solution I can see is that we redo the "examples" entries into a discussion heading where we mention each, or some, "non-defining" title with a few sentences, including the Sandbox game, or that we flesh out the (or some) entries in the list and place a small discussion of the Sandbox game there. There should be a way of satisfying both parties here. In short: perhaps we could keep the Sandbox game but move it from the definition paragraph? Mikademus 10:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I read the whole article again and the game is barely mentioned so I don't really get why this is a big deal. This is the only turnbased god game I know about so if any of you have any other game in mind we can switch it. Sandbox is simply an example to illustrate the genre after all... Bragador 14:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The wikipedia guidelines put it in words better than I can, actually. That aside, the secondary thing wrong with including the reference is that it necessitates 1) splitting the definition, 2) to fit a subset of one. Hence my proposal to strike it from the definition and from the _very_ visible list of paragons--however, it's a vaguely, peripherally related project to the genre and it will have its honorable mention-writeup in "See Also".
 * I'll put up the edit after some last bit of input from other editors. I think you will all agree with its agreeability. Asdfff 09:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I put up a sample edit. I think Bragador will find it a fair treatment. Just so you all know, I did play the game, and I'm not just pushing these changes from out of the blue. I've seen other games with the same narrative structure, and it simply would be a stretch to call them god games. I do have another example--the "Game of Life" mini-game within ADOM, which fits Bragador's modified definitions exactly, but is definitely not a god game. Asdfff 09:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok so you don't believe sandbox is a god game... which I partially disagree since even though the game is not persistent, you still play as a god and you don't control directly what is going on. Oh and btw a product can't be considered an original thought. It's a product after all, not a theory. That aside, I strongly disagree that god games must be in real time. I don't see why a turn based game couldn't be programmed so I am against writing anything mentionning that as a general characteristic of the genre. Bragador 01:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Realtime stuff: sounds good. Go ahead and pare down my edits to the definition section. Asdfff 03:16, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with Bragador, requiring "real-time" as part of the definition is an uneccessary and somewhat artificial restriction on god games. Mikademus 08:00, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Rephrased to match Bragador's thoughts. With that I think I've made my final edits here, please tweak my contributions how you will. Asdfff 15:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I still believe we should find at least one exemple of what a turn based god game could look like. Illustrating principles is always a good thing. I'd like to know why you think sandbox couldn't be considered a turnbased god game. Your only complaint, after all, seems only to be that it's a freeware game. Or perhaps itMs that the game isn't played in a persistent world ? But then does it mean that if black and white had a time limit for each stage you wouldn't consider it a god game ? Bragador 19:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * No. Illustrating this principle is not a good thing. To Reiterate: don't make this about the definition. Makes this about why we shouldn't include SAID definition on one of wikipedia's pages about entire genres. The game AND the definitions are definitely not my only complaint; they are peripheral to it. The No Original Research guideline should be respected here.
 * Look, don't make this a sticking point. The point is that you really shouldn't be going around affecting the narrowing AND expansion of the generally understood definition of a genre because you very much want to introduce the concept of 'turn-based' into 'god games'--not only that, but that you want to do it specifically around one mini-game.
 * We shouldn't debate the validity of Sandbox AT ALL. The game is not the point. The point is that you're using a trivial game to branch off definition of a mainstream genre.
 * (Sandbox uses 'god game' as a narrative device, not a gameplay device. I'm not debating passage of time itself. Actraiser had demarcated levels, remember? Also, Populous' world can optionally be non-persistent through your entire gameplay experience. God games can be instrinsically played in bursts of time passage by the use of the pause button. However, Sandbox by its nature has you performing one defined turn and then decides whether you completed very specific puzzles that the designer set out for you. It's very different from god games as everyone else understands it.)
 * Sandbox aside, don't get stuck on "turn-based". It's only you steadfastedly advocating the branching off of definition, which really does counts only as original research. If you want to include it, I highly recommend writing up a section under the entry for The Sandbox of God itself and not on such a top level genre page. I do have a crappy example for you--I wasn't kidding about the Conroy's Game of Life variant that's included in ADOM, and it's the best anyone can do. It's only a sorrrt of god game because it's user-interruptible between growth cycles where you can add and remove growth seeds in between 'turns'.
 * But I can use the same guidelines provided by you to say that Harvest Moon is a turn-based god game. Trust me, it fits with the definition splitting you provided for in the argument thread from above.
 * (Harvest Moon: Pliable playing field: a plot of farmland. Actions possible on your turn : plow, plant, water, protect. Off turn: plants can grow, dry, die, get eaten, get pulled. You see what I mean? It's disingenuous to add that as an example just because it fit perfectly the warped definition of god games that this talk page has come up with.)
 * Again, I stress that picking over definitions doesn't belong in a top-level entry as this one, but on the Sandbox page itself.
 * Please, I'm begging you not to include such original research and opinions into such a top level article. 2) I wasn't kidding about the 'trivia' nature of the game. Just like I wouldn't cite Harvest Moon as an example, you shouldn't introduce Sandbox into the article body just because you think it's cool if god games are turn based.] Asdfff 05:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

 * No forget about sandbox. It's not about sandbox now. You must understand that god games have no "official definition" and thus the community makes the definition by consensus. For example, "rpg" has been associated with final fantasy and dragon quest but many retailers and reviewers have also associated games like Zelda with the "rpg" tag. Same thing with music genres. So you can't classify the community trying to define the genre as being original research. If we were talking about creating the category "god game" then that would be an original research and it wouldn't be acceptable. Trying to define what already exists is not considered original research. Now, from your answer you seem to agree that god games shouldn't be limited to persistent worlds and to non turn based games, right ? Bragador 17:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Best games
I think they're should be stated what game is widely recieved as tyhe pinnacle of this genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.163.82 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 2 September 2006

Terranigma?
Would Terranigma be considered a God game? You don't have direct control over people and their lives, but you do resurrect the continents, the plants, the animals, and the people. I wasn't sure, so I thought I'd ask. -Platypus Man | Talk 05:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * What about God of War? ....Budoom Pshhhhh!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.252.119 (talk • contribs) 15:42, 2 January 2007

Removed links
Removed links in "examples of god games" that were just advertising. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ketsa (talk • contribs) 20:11, 26 December 2006

Origins
Anything sourced about the origins of this genre of game? I recall reading an article on Lionhead's website a couple of years ago in which Peter Molyneux (Populous creator) mentioned the influence of German board games on the concept for Populous but I can offer no citable references. --JamesTheNumberless 17:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

General lack of direction
Arguments about what is and is not a god game dominate the article. This isn't how it should be. We should stick to a simple explanation and discuss the implications based on that. As-is, it's just a list of different sub-genres. I'm reorganising the article to encourage future growth. Chris Cunningham 19:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Should the G be caplitalized?
I probably should have asked before "fixing" the spelling in one section, but shouldn't the "g" in god game be lower-case, unless specifically referring to the Judeo-Christian God? To say "a God" is never proper - it's either "God" or "a god" - which is what started me down the "fix" path (I might have over-done it.) Thoughts? Ben Hocking (talk 16:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It should all be lower case as in "god game", as, as you put it, the player takes the role of "a god" (unless, of course, the game actually lets you play as the Judeo-Christian God, to which there is none that I'm aware of). Obviously when "god game" starts a sentence, it should be capitalized by standard English rules. --Masem 16:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Add Dwarf Fortress?
I think that Dwarf Fortress is worth a mention of a god-game, because you can generate the world before play.203.214.65.222 (talk) 02:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You have no influence over world generation, you can't modify a generated world, and DF is a fantasy variant of SimCity, not a God Game. Miqademus (talk) 18:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * DF has nothing in common with Sim City, its more like a Dungeon Keeper clone with a TON of added stuff. Ketsa (talk) 00:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

God Sim, surely...?
Has something happened since the last time I read anything concerning the God sim genre? Everyone contributing to this article seems to have unilaterally adopted the term God Game. This must be a recent(ish) term, as I am a fairly regular RTS / God Sim player for the past decade or so who has never encountered it before. Additionally, I was moderately surprised to see no one else raising this point.

When exactly was this genre renamed from sim to game, and by whom? I'd be just as perplexed if everyone started talking about Flight Games all of a sudden! Please, please tell me it is not because of a daft affection for the (admittedly handy) alliteration, satisfying though it undoubtedly is to write GG and have everyone know what you are referring to. Blitterbug (talk) 18:43, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

 * They've been god games since Populous 139.80.98.191 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC).

why is "mass game" term used throughout the article?
Is "mass game" in fact a common alternative term for "god game"? I note that on google "god game" seems to return much more relevant stuff than "mass game". Also, there is no redirect from Mass game to God game again suggesting dubiousness of "mass game" term. 76.119.30.87 (talk) 17:33, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * An IP editor changed all the "god" to "mass" a few days ago for no reason which also broke the hat links, I've reverted that. I have no idea what "mass game" implies. --M ASEM (t) 17:52, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

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text:
Eagle Electric

Eagle Electric Manufacturing Company, founded in 1920, was a maker of electrical devices, switches and circuit units based in Long Island City, New York, in the borough of Queens.

History
The company was founded by Louis Ludwig and his younger brother Philip Ludwig both of whose children ran the company after the founders died.

The company's New York workers were represented by a union. Picketers were arrested outside the company's plant in January 1938.

For many years, Eagle had a giant neon billboard overlooking the Queensboro Bridge that became a familiar sight to motorists. It read, in capitals, "Eagle Electric-Perfection is not an accident". The slogan was written by founder Louis Ludwig. In 1987, under the direction of Mel Ludwig, the Advertising Manager, Oswald Fernandez began a process of updating the slogan the logo and packaging graphics. When the building was purchased the company had moved production to various parts of the world. As of 2006, Cooper Wiring Devices has moved all their manufacturing out of Long Island City, to Mexico, China, and the south-east United States.

By the early 1980s Eagle Electric was selling thousands of wiring device SKUs to hardware stores across the country. In 1991 Eagle Electric introduced a line of surge protector wiring devices under the brand eSmart, with the strong support of senior management. The eSmart brand was the first trademark with an "e" in front of it. The brand sold well to the big box stores as there was no competitive surge protector line in the industry. Eventually the brand was dismantled by then Marketing Director Jim Cook, because he felt that computers were a "passing fad."

The company began to move its production facilities away from New York to Greensboro, North Carolina in the early 1980s and later to Mexico. In 1997, the company announced that a new labor contract and tax abatements had convinced it to keep its operations in New York. But a year later, the company's president and some other executives were removed by its board of directors.

In the spring of 2000, Eagle was purchased by Cooper Industries to form Cooper Wiring Devices, Inc. Cooper Wiring Devices is now based in Peachtree City, Georgia. Eaton Corporation bought Cooper Industries in 2012, and Eagle Electric is now known as Eaton Wiring Devices.

title: Eagle Electric


text:
Saint-Jean, Haute-Garonne

Saint-Jean (Languedocien: Sent Joan le Vièlh) is a commune in the Haute-Garonne department in southwestern France.

It is located northeast of Toulouse on the N88 or road of Albi (exit 14 on the peripheral).

Population
The inhabitants of the commune are known as Saint-Jeannais.

Sights
One of the commune's main points of interest is its historic church.

Notable People

 * Camille Razat - born and raised in Saint-Jean.

International relations
Saint-Jean is twinned with:
 * 🇮🇹 Fontanafredda, Italy

title: Saint-Jean, Haute-Garonne