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Prepared guitar

A prepared guitar is a guitar that has had its timbre altered by placing various objects on or between the instrument's strings, including other extended techniques. This practice is sometimes called tabletop guitar, because many prepared guitarists do not hold the instrument in the usual manner, but instead place the guitar on a table to manipulate it.

The idea of altering an instrument's timbre through the use of external objects has been applied to other instruments as well, most notably John Cage's prepared piano, which preceded the prepared guitar.

History
With prepared guitars, one of the key goals in preparing the instrument is changing its timbre – the fundamental tone composition of the sound. This is typically achieved by placing objects on or under the strings. The objects can have a tone of their own, like for instance a pen spring, but can also cause strange string resonance effects or behave like a seesaw and create echoing or buzzing effects after being struck and swinging like a balance. Many of the sounds sound more or less like clocks, bells or Non Western musical instruments or even non string percussion instruments.

Bjørn Fongaard
The history of Norwegian composer and guitar player Bjørn Fongaard (1919–1980) probably marks the first steps into prepared guitar. He started off by constructing a quarter tone guitar with adaption of the fretboard, but very early left this in favour of a diverse set of prepared guitar techniques. His first pieces in this genre came in the mid 1960s.

Keith Rowe
The method of actually preparing the guitar was developed in the late 1960s by Keith Rowe, in imitation of Jackson Pollock's painting method and John Cage's prepared piano. Rowe developed various prepared guitar techniques: placing the guitar flat on a table and manipulating the strings, body and pickups in unorthodox ways to produce sounds described as dark, brooding, compelling, expansive and alien. He has been known to employ objects such as a library card, rubber eraser, springs, hand-held electric fans, alligator clips, and common office supplies in playing the guitar.

Fred Frith
Another pioneer was Fred Frith who in 1974 released a solo album called Guitar Solos. The album comprises eight tracks of unaccompanied and improvised music played on prepared guitars by Frith. The album was recorded using a modified 1936 Gibson K-11. Frith added an extra pickup over the strings at the nut, enabling him to amplify sound from both sides of the fretted note. He then split the fretboard in two with a capo, effectively giving him two guitars, each amplified separately, that he could play independently with each hand. To split the sounds further he attached alligator clips at various positions on the strings. The net result was a guitar with multiple sound sources that could be channeled to a mixer and distributed across the stereo soundscape.

Other prepared guitarists
In the 1980s Glenn Branca, Sonic Youth and other experimental art rockers also utilized prepared guitars. Koka Nikoladze developed a preparation technique, which afterwards was named "Nikoladze" Preparation. In this case an acoustic guitar was prepared with a certain type of a light bulb and produced synthetic - alike sound. The beautiful demonstration of upper mentioned technique is the composition "Starshine ~" for violin, prepared guitar and percussion.

Other contemporary prepared guitar composers/performers include:
 * Dani Rabin of Marbin incorporated prepared guitar into the jazz-rock style in a non-avant-garde fashion.
 * Duane Denison used prepared guitar with The Jesus Lizard and Legendary Shack Shakers.
 * GP Hall (active since the late 1960s) uses a variety of guitars played with implements including psaltery bows, palette knives, electric fans and razors, wind-up toys, velcro and crocodile clips. Some of Hall's techniques are similar to Keith Rowe's methods but are applied to a much more melodic compositional and improvisational style.
 * Steve Parry of Hwyl Nofio uses a prepared guitar technique and developed a bowed device based on the violin, utilizing paper clips, nails, a razor, pliers, bow, automata.
 * Koka Nikoladze developed a guitar preparation technique with light bulb (2009), and played a standard acoustic guitar as a bowed instrument.
 * Martín Irigoyen (of Vernian Process) and Erik Sanko both use electronic devices, hand ventilators, walkie-talkies, paper clips, aluminum foil, credit cards and tweezers.
 * Nikita Koshkin uses cork, matches and foam mutes.
 * Jacques Palinckx (active from the 1980s) from the Netherlands uses vibrators, radios, toys and knives.
 * Cor Fuhler uses multiple vibrators and 3rd bridge on acoustic guitar.
 * Micachu uses unorthodox instruments which are sometimes customised or homemade. These included a modified guitar played with a hammer action, called a 'chu'. Other is a short scaled children guitar with an additional third bridge next to the sound hole which shortens the scale length, leading to an alternate microtonal division of the intervals.
 * These Are Powers use a bass guitar with a rod placed between the strings and the body to shorten the string length, as well as playing behind that additional bridge like a tailed bridge guitar.
 * Michael Chorney plays prepared-guitar
 * Shane Parish of Ahleuchatistas places a wire in front of the bridge in some songs.
 * Paolo Angeli uses a "Sardinian prepared guitar": an orchestra-instrument with 18 cords, a hybrid between guitar, cello and drums, gifted with hammers, pedals at variable speed.

Custom made instruments
Beginning in the 1970s, guitarist and luthier Hans Reichel made some unusual guitars with third bridge-like qualities.

Yuri Landman derived a just intoned musical scale from an initially considered atonal prepared guitar playing technique based on adding a 3rd bridge under the strings. He constructed an instrument called the Moodswinger with this scale. When this bridge is positioned in the noded positions of the harmonic series the volume of the instrument increases and the overtone becomes clear and has a consonant relation to the complementary opposed string part creating a harmonic multiphonic tone.

Prepared guitar luthiers

 * Glenn Branca
 * Yuri Landman
 * Bradford Reed
 * Hans Reichel

Notable prepared guitar players

 * Derek Bailey
 * Glenn Branca
 * Scott Fields
 * Dominic Frasca
 * Fred Frith
 * GP Hall
 * Koka Nikoladze
 * Martín Irigoyen
 * Nikita Koshkin
 * Yuri Landman
 * Thurston Moore
 * Steve Parry
 * Lee Ranaldo
 * Keith Rowe
 * Marc Ribot
 * David Tronzo
 * Reynaldo Young
 * Jon Wilson of Meat Beat Manifesto
 * Reentko Dirks

Literature

 * Prepared Guitar Techniques - Matthew Elgart/Peter Yates (Elgart/Yates Guitar Duo) ISBN 978-0-939297-99-3, California Guitar Archives , 2020.
 * Nice Noise - Bart Hopkin & Yuri Landman ISBN 978-0-972-731-36-2, published by Experimental Musical Instruments, 2012.
 * The Unorthodox Guitar - ISBN 978-0199381852 Mike Frengel, Oxford University Press, 2017.

title: Prepared guitar


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Kansas City Monarchs

The Kansas City Monarchs were the longest-running franchise in the history of baseball's Negro leagues. Operating in Kansas City, Missouri, and owned by J. L. Wilkinson, they were charter members of the Negro National League from 1920 to 1930. Wilkinson was the first white owner at the time of the establishment of the team. In 1930, the Monarchs became the first professional baseball team to use a portable lighting system which was transported from game to game in trucks to play games at night, five years before any Major League Baseball team did. The Monarchs won ten league championships before integration, and triumphed in the first Negro World Series in 1924. The Monarchs had only one season in which they did not have a winning record and produced more major league players than any other Negro league franchise. It was disbanded in 1965.

Negro National League
The Monarchs were formed in 1920, primarily from two sources. Owner J. L. Wilkinson drew players from his All Nations barnstorming team, which had been inactive during World War I, and the 25th Infantry Wreckers, an all-black team recruited into the U.S. Army almost exclusively for their playing talent. He put together a collection of talent, including pitcher/outfielder Bullet Rogan, an eventual Hall of Famer who established himself as one of the most popular stars of the new league; sluggers Dobie Moore, Heavy Johnson, George Carr, and Hurley McNair; and pitchers Rube Currie and Cliff Bell. Immediate contenders, the Monarchs became bitter rivals to black baseball's reigning power, Rube Foster's Chicago American Giants. After three years of failing to break off the Giants' hold on the pennant, Wilkinson fired manager Sam Crawford in mid-1923, replacing him with veteran Cuban star José Méndez, who then led the Monarchs to the league championship. Winning the pennant again in 1924, the Monarchs participated in the first Negro League World Series, defeating the Eastern Colored League champion Hilldale team from Darby, Pennsylvania, in a ten-game series (five wins, four losses, and one tie). In this series, Méndez had an ERA of 1.42 in four of the games and was responsible for a shutout in the one game he was the starting pitcher in. Motivated by the Monarchs' runaway pennant victory, NNL president Rube Foster changed the league schedule to a split-season format for 1925. However, Kansas City still took the league title again in 1925, but lost the World Series to Hilldale when Rogan was injured just before the series began, winning one game and losing five. Even though Méndez was the manager, he still pitched during the few years he held the position. Among the team's regulars during these years were the second baseman/shortstop Newt Allen who in the 1924 series alone had a batting average of .282 and seven doubles and Frank Duncan. Newt Joseph played third base for the Monarchs from 1922 through their NNL years, hitting a composite .284 during that time.

In 1926 manager Méndez returned to Cuba, and Rogan took over as player/manager. He kept up the Monarchs' tradition of fine pitching, as the team's staff over the next few years featured Negro league greats including Chet Brewer, William Bell, and lefty Andy Cooper. The club traded for legendary Cuban outfielder Cristóbal Torriente, but also permanently lost the services of star shortstop Dobie Moore, whose career ended that year due to a severe off-the-field injury. After winning the first-half pennant, the Monarchs dropped a best of nine playoff to the Chicago American Giants when Rogan lost both games of a series-closing doubleheader to the young Bill Foster, another eventual Hall of Famer. In 1928 the Monarchs narrowly missed a second-half title, but won both halves of the 1929 NNL title with the best overall single-season record ever compiled by a Negro league team at 62 wins and 17 losses. By this time, pitcher Andy Cooper who had made a name for himself by playing for seven years with the Detroit Stars had joined the Monarchs. No World Series was played that year between the Monarchs and the Baltimore Black Sox, champions of the eastern American Negro League.

J.L. Wilkinson
J.L. Wilkinson was the owner of the Kansas City Monarchs team from 1920 until the team was sold to Tom Baird in 1947. J.L. Wilkinson was the first person to use days like "Ladies' Day" and "Kid's Day". These days were used to promote baseball and attract more players to the All Nationals Club to develop their talent and eventually be available to be placed on the Kansas City Monarch team. He was among the top businessmen and promoters for African American baseball. This helped the Kansas City Monarchs become a very stable and successful franchise. J.L. Wilkinson's Kansas City Monarchs was the only team in the Negro Leagues to play against a comedic team even after there were regulations put in place so that other teams could avoid playing against the comedic team. This comedic team wore grass skirts, war paint, and bright uniforms with a clown on the front.

Night baseball
The Monarchs won four pennant championships before they introduced night baseball in the 1930s. The Kansas City Monarchs started playing night baseball to try to get more people to come to the games. the first night game was in early march, 1930 in Lawrence Kansas. The Monarchs had portable light systems that could be transported on the team's bus to any game. The lights were powered by portable generators and attached to retractable poles. This was the first team to regularly play baseball under artificial light, including the major league teams. Night baseball gave the Monarchs more time to play more games, which also allowed them to make more profits. This increase in profits helped the Kansas City Monarchs continue to be one of the most stable franchises in the Negro Leagues.

Barnstorming, Negro American League
Following the death of the original league, the Monarchs spent several years as an independent team, mostly barnstorming through the Midwest, West, and western Canada. They frequently toured with the House of David baseball team. Hall of Famers Hilton Smith, a pitcher, and Willard Brown, a slugging shortstop/outfielder with a consistent batting average of over .300, became Monarch mainstays during this time. During the 1940s, Willard Brown became the go-to home run hitter for the Monarchs. With Andy Cooper now at the helm, the Monarchs became charter members of the Negro American League (NAL) in 1937, winning the first league title. Andy Cooper was responsible for leading the Monarchs to bring home the pennant in 1939 and 1940. The Kansas City Monarchs then won the next two league championships and won winning the renewed Negro League World Series in 1942 in four straight games against the Homestead Grays. At the start of this run the Monarchs acquired their most famous player, Hall of Fame pitcher Satchel Paige, who had since his rookie season in 1927 built a reputation as the best hurler in black baseball for the Birmingham Black Barons, Pittsburgh Crawfords, and several other teams. Suffering from an arm injury and generally thought to be done, Paige joined the Monarchs' B team in 1939; by 1940 he had recovered and been called up to the Monarchs' main squad, where he became their top drawing card. Paige was the subject of a lot of stories, both true and folklore, and became a legend to people who don't even follow baseball. For example, he was known to have known the outfielders to sit on the ground behind him while he struck out the hitter and there was someone on base that could possibly tie the game up. Paige also warmed up before pitching in a game by throwing across a gum wrapper as home plate. Paige led another superb Monarchs' staff that included fellow Hall of Famer Hilton Smith, the veteran Chet Brewer, Booker McDaniels, Jim LaMarque, and several others. They won one last NAL pennant in 1946, but lost a seven-game World Series to the Newark Eagles; in this series, they lost four games and won three.

In 1945, UCLA football star and Army lieutenant Jackie Robinson hit .387 as the Monarchs' shortstop. He became the first Monarch to make the jump to white baseball, signing with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1946. He broke the minor league color line in 1946 with the Montreal Royals, and integrated the major leagues with the Dodgers in 1947. As baseball gradually desegregated in the late 1940s and 1950s, the Monarchs developed a niche as the foremost developer of black talent for the major leagues. The team sent more players to the majors than any other Negro league franchise, including Robinson, Paige, Ernie Banks, Elston Howard, Hank Thompson, and Willard Brown.

Newt Allen succeeded Cooper as manager in 1941, and was followed by Frank Duncan in 1942. Duncan stayed at the helm through the 1947 season winning two league titles and one world title. After Duncan stepped down, longtime first baseman Buck O'Neil took over. Then Monarchs lost the league title to the Birmingham Black Barons in 1948 which prevented them from appearing in the last Negro World Series. 1948 was also the year that Wilkinson sold the Monarchs to Tom Baird who owned the team through their minor league days in the 1950s. The Monarchs won the league's western division first-half pennant in 1949, but declined to participate in a playoff with the Chicago American Giants, as their roster was depleted by player sales to major league clubs. They won the NAL West Division title in 1950 but did not meet the eastern champion Indianapolis Clowns that year. They won a half-season pennant in 1951 but lost a playoff. O'Neil won his only two league titles in 1953 and 1955, with a last-place finish sandwiched between in 1954 as the Negro American League of the 1950s declined in quality and shrank in size, while in the process grooming a number of eventual major league players.

Home fields and move to Grand Rapids
The Monarchs played their home games in the minor league Kansas City Blues' Association Park from 1920 to 1923, and moved to the Blues' new park, Muehlebach Field, in mid-1923. They mostly barnstormed in the early-to-mid-1930s, but used Muehlebach (later known as Ruppert Stadium or Blues Stadium at different times) from 1937 until 1955. After a single season of scheduling games with the major league Kansas City Athletics as prime tenants of the renamed Municipal Stadium, Tom Baird sold eight players to major league clubs and four more players to minor league teams, released his manager, Buck O'Neil, who then signed on as a scout for the Chicago Cubs, and then sold the franchise to baseball entrepreneur Ted Rasberry, who moved its base to Grand Rapids, Michigan, though retaining the name "Kansas City Monarchs". From 1956 on, the Monarchs were a full-time barnstorming team. The Negro American League ceased operations in 1962, and the Monarchs finally disbanded after the 1965 season. In Grand Rapids, the Monarchs Played at Valley Field, located at 700 Valley Ave NW, near where Sullivan Field is today.

Minor league affiliate
The Kansas City Monarchs were one of a few Negro league teams that informally employed a farm team. The Monroe Monarchs played from the late 1920s to 1935, mostly as a minor league team loosely associated with Kansas City.

Baseball Hall of Famers
Players and managers listed in bold are depicted on their Hall of Fame plaques wearing a Monarchs cap insignia. An asterisk (*) denotes the player is depicted on Hall of Fame plaque without a cap insignia or with the cap insignia obscured but the Hall of Fame recognizes Monarchs as "Primary Team"

Other notable players

 * Toni Stone (1954); first woman to play in the negro leagues (1953); she was traded from the Indianapolis Clowns to the Monarchs in the 1950s.
 * Elston Howard (1948–1950) 12 time MLB All-Star; 1963 AL Most Valuable Player.
 * Quincy Trouppe (1932, 1935)
 * Sam Bankhead utility man; highly valued.

Legacy
In February 2021, the team's name was revived by a Kansas City, Kansas, minor league team, the Kansas City T-Bones. The name was approved through a negotiation with the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum.

MLB throwback jerseys
The Kansas City Royals have honored the Monarchs by wearing replica uniforms during regular-season baseball games on several occasions, including July 14, 2001 (at Pittsburgh), July 1, 2007, and May 30, 2009 (at home vs. White Sox), June 9, 2012 (at Pittsburgh), July 21, 2012, and June 23, 2019 (both at home vs. Minnesota), August 24, 2013 (at home vs. Washington Nationals), May 18, 2014 (at home vs. Baltimore), May 17, 2015 (at home vs. New York Yankees), May 15, 2016 (at home vs. Atlanta), May 7, 2017 (at home vs. Cleveland), and August 13, 2022 (at home vs. Los Angeles Dodgers). Throwback jerseys worn during Royals home games have typically been auctioned as a fundraiser for the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum.

Additional references

 * Only the Ball was White by Robert Peterson (1970) Publisher: Prentice-Hall (Englewood Cliffs NJ) ISBN 0-19-507637-0
 * The Kansas City Monarchs by Janet Bruce-Campbell {1985} Publisher: University Press of Kansas (Lawrence KS) ISBN 0-7006-0343-3
 * The Monarchs 1920–1938, Featuring Wilber "Bullet" Rogan by Phil S. Dixon {2002} Publisher: Mariah Press (Sioux Falls SD) ISBN 1-893250-08-3
 * The Negro Leagues Book edited by Dick Clark & Larry Lester {1994} Publisher: The Society for American Baseball Research (Cleveland OH) ISBN 0-910137-55-2
 * The Complete Book of Baseball's Negro Leagues by John B. Holway {2001} Publisher: Hastings House ISBN 0-8038-2007-0
 * Black America Series Black Baseball in Kansas Cityby Larry Lester and Sammy J. Miller (2000) Publisher: Arcadia Publishing (Charleston, SC) ISBN 978-0-7385-0842-9

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Kansas City Monarchs


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User talk:148.136.141.172

May 2019
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 * If this is a shared IP address, and you did not make the edits, consider creating an account for yourself or logging in with an existing account so you can avoid further irrelevant notices.

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to Golden Gate Fields. Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 12:52, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

February 2020
Hello, I'm Wtmitchell. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of your recent contributions —specifically this edit to Boxing styles and technique—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Help desk. Thanks. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 14:38, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

title: User talk:148.136.141.172


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User talk:Blanchard

Hi there! You added info that bombing of cities was started by Luftwaffe as result of navigational mistake. Have you anything to back the claim, that bombing Wielun in September 1st 1939 (undefended city, including hsospital with large red cross) and hundreds of other Polish cities were results of navigational mistake?! Szopen 15:02, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Karnival
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title: User talk:Blanchard


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North European Aerospace Test range

North European Aerospace Test range (NEAT) in Sweden is Europe's largest overland test range for aerospace systems.

It is a co-operation by the Swedish Space Corporation and Swedish Defence Materiel Administration.

Its aim is to provide facilities and services for safe aerospace testing in one of the few parts of Europe which has very low population and almost no air-traffic.

Physical attributes
NEAT consists of two ranges in northern Sweden, Esrange Space Center outside Kiruna and Vidsel Test Range, that are combined with a bridging area in-between the two ranges.

Size
The total size of NEAT is 24,000 km2, and the one-way length is 350 km.

Restricted airspace
NEAT has two permanently restricted airspace areas.
 * R01 covers Esrange Space Center and is 6,600 km2, GND/UNL altitude.
 * R02 covers Vidsel Test Range and is 7,200 km2, GND/UNL altitude.

There is also four additional restricted airspace areas over the bridging area that are only used when needed.
 * Over the west part, GND/3500 MSL
 * Over the west part, 3500 MSL/FL200
 * Over the whole area, 3500 MSL/FL330 in the west part and FL200/FL330 in the east part.
 * Over the whole area, FL470/UNL

Restricted ground-space

 * Esrange Rocket Impact Area is 5,200 km2.

Suspended ground-space

 * Vidsel Test Range is 3,300 km2.

title: North European Aerospace Test range


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Dangling else

The dangling else is a problem in programming of parser generators in which an optional else clause in an if–then(–else) statement results in nested conditionals being ambiguous. Formally, the reference context-free grammar of the language is ambiguous, meaning there is more than one correct parse tree.

In many programming languages one may write conditionally executed code in two forms: the if-then form, and the if-then-else form – the else clause is optional: if a then s if b then s1 else s2

This gives rise to an ambiguity in interpretation when there are nested statements, specifically whenever an if-then form appears as  in an if-then-else form:

if a then if b then s else s2 In this example,  is unambiguously executed when   is true and   is true, but one may interpret   as being executed when   is false (thus attaching the else to the first if) or when   is true and   is false (thus attaching the else to the second if). In other words, one may see the previous statement as either of the following expressions: if a then (if b then s) else s2 if a then (if b then s else s2)

The dangling else problem dates to ALGOL 60, and has been resolved in various ways in subsequent languages. In LR parsers, the dangling else is the archetypal example of a shift-reduce conflict.

Avoiding ambiguity while keeping the syntax
This is a problem that often comes up in compiler construction, especially scannerless parsing. The convention when dealing with the dangling else is to attach the else to the nearby if statement, allowing for unambiguous context-free grammars, in particular. Programming languages like Pascal, C and Java follow this convention, so there is no ambiguity in the semantics of the language, though the use of a parser generator may lead to ambiguous grammars. In these cases alternative grouping is accomplished by explicit blocks, such as  in Pascal and   in C.

Depending on the compiler construction approach, one may take different corrective actions to avoid ambiguity:

 * If the parser is produced by an SLR, LR(1) or LALR LR parser generator, the programmer will often rely on the generated parser feature of preferring shift over reduce whenever there is a conflict. Alternatively, the grammar can be rewritten to remove the conflict, at the expense of an increase in grammar size (see below).
 * If the parser is hand written, the programmer may use a non-ambiguous context-free grammar. Alternatively, one may rely on a non-context-free grammar or a parsing expression grammar.

Avoiding ambiguity by changing the syntax
The problem can also be solved by making explicit the link between an else and its if, within the syntax. This usually helps avoid human errors.

Possible solutions are:
 * Having an "end if" symbol delimiting the end of the if construct. Examples of such languages are ALGOL 68, Ada, Eiffel, PL/SQL, Visual Basic, Modula-2, and AppleScript.
 * Disallowing the statement following a "then" to be an "if" itself (it may however be a pair of statement brackets containing only an if-then-clause). This approach is followed by ALGOL 60.
 * Requiring braces (parentheses) when an "else" follows an "if".
 * Requiring every "if" to be paired with an "else". To avoid a similar problem concerning semantics rather than syntax, Racket deviates from Scheme by considering an  without a fallback clause to be an error, effectively distinguishing conditional expressions (i.e  ) from conditional statements (i.e   and , which do not have fallback clauses).
 * Using different keywords for the one-alternative and two-alternative "if" statements. S-algol uses  for the one-alternative case and   for the general case.
 * Requiring braces unconditionally, like Swift. This is effectively true in Python as its indentation rules delimit every block, not just those in "if" statements.

Examples
Concrete examples follow.

C
In C, the grammar reads, in part: statement = ... | selection-statement

selection-statement = ... | IF ( expression ) statement | IF ( expression ) statement ELSE statement

Thus, without further rules, the statement could ambiguously be parsed as if it were either: or: The C standard clarifies that an  block is associated with the nearest. Therefore, the first tree is chosen.

Avoiding the conflict in LR parsers
The above example could be rewritten in the following way to remove the ambiguity : statement: open_statement | closed_statement ;

open_statement: IF '(' expression ')' statement | IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE open_statement ;

closed_statement: non_if_statement | IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE closed_statement ;

non_if_statement: ... ;

Any other statement-related grammar rules may also have to be duplicated in this way if they may directly or indirectly end with a  or   non-terminal.

However, we give grammar that includes both of if and while statements.

statement: open_statement | closed_statement ;

open_statement: IF '(' expression ')' statement | IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE open_statement | WHILE '(' expression ')' open_statement ;

closed_statement: simple_statement | IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE closed_statement | WHILE '(' expression ')' closed_statement ;

simple_statement: ... ;

Finally, we give the grammar that forbids ambiguous IF statements.

statement: open_statement | closed_statement ;

open_statement: IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement | IF '(' expression ')' open_statement | IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE open_statement | WHILE '(' expression ')' open_statement ;

closed_statement: simple_statement | IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE closed_statement | WHILE '(' expression ')' closed_statement ;

simple_statement: ... ;

With this grammar the statement  can only be parsed one way, because the other interpretation  is produced as statement open_statement IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE open_statement 'if' '(' 'a' ')' closed_statement 'else' 'd' and then the parsing fails trying to match  to "if (b) c". An attempt with  fails in the same way. The other parse, ) succeeds: statement open_statement IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement IF '(' a ')' (IF '(' expression ')' closed_statement ELSE closed_statement) IF '(' a ')' (IF '(' b ')' c ELSE 'd')

title: Dangling else


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Arthur Hay, 9th Marquess of Tweeddale

Colonel Arthur Hay, 9th Marquess of Tweeddale, (9 November 1824 – 29 December 1878), known before 1862 as Lord Arthur Hay and between 1862 and 1876 as Viscount Walden, was a Scottish soldier and ornithologist.

Life
Lord Arthur Hay was born at Yester House near Gifford, East Lothian, the son of General Sir George Hay, 8th Marquess of Tweeddale and his wife, Lady Susan Montague. He was sent to university in both Leipzig and Geneva.

Training in the military he received a commission in the British Army in 1841. He rose to be a Colonel in the Grenadier Guards. He served as a soldier in India and the Crimea. He succeeded his father in the Marquessate in 1876.

Hay purchased a lieutenancy in the Grenadier Guards in 1841. He purchased a captaincy in 1846 and was promoted lieutenant-colonel without purchase in 1854 and Colonel in 1860. In 1866 he transferred to the 17th Lancers.

He was president of the Zoological Society of London from 16 January 1868. He had a private collection of birds, insects, reptiles and mammals and employed Carl Bock to travel to Maritime Southeast Asia and collect specimens. Tweeddale described about 40 species collected by Bock for the first time and was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1871. The holotype specimen of the Critically Endangered and enigmatic Malabar Civet was obtained by him and gave it to Asiatic Society of Bengal in 1845.

His ornithological works were published privately in 1881 by his nephew, Captain Robert George Wardlaw-Ramsay, with a memoir by Dr W. H. Russell, and the attribution Walden is used in taxonomic listings.

Lord Tweeddale died at Walden Cottage in Chislehurst, London on 28 December 1878. As he had no issue, he was succeeded as Marquess of Tweeddale by his brother, William.

Family
He married twice: firstly in 1857 to Helene Kilmansegge (d.1871) and secondly in 1873 to Julia Mackenzie of Seaforth, daughter of Lt.-Colonel Keith William Stewart-Mackenzie (9 May 1818 – June 1881) and of Hannah Charlotte Hope Vere. After Hay's death she married secondly Sir John Rose, 1st Baronet; and thirdly after his death William Evans-Gordon, MP. (All without issue).

title: Arthur Hay, 9th Marquess of Tweeddale


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User talk:SudhirP

Somebody talk 2 me!
 * SudhirP 15:09, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Downloading Wiki
I need a copy of Wikipedia for use in college, which doesnt have an internet connection. I would like to download the whole of wikipedia, and rip it onto some CD(s). How can I do it without manually downloading every article? If it is possible, Does wiki have any objections in doing so? Also, what may be the size of that? :SudhirP 13:16, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * It is welcomed, see http://download.wikimedia.org/. The current version of the english wikipedia will fit on a CD, but will be a very long download if you are on dialup. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:20, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

 * See also Download for a static HTML dump, and Copyrights for the terms of use of the GFDL license. Dori | Talk 15:25, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

Thanx a lot! :SudhirP 14:12, Jun 4, 2004 (UTC)

Signing everything
Please stop signing images and articles with your user name, this is against policy. Thank you --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 08:28, 2004 May 23 (UTC)

 * (We really do appreciate the edits; aside from the signing, keep up the good work!) grendelkhan|(blather) 08:30, 2004 May 23 (UTC)
 * Oookie, the thing is that if everyone would say sign wikipedia articles and images the content would suffer, instead we have upload logs and commmit logs to credit contributors. Since it is against policy signing everything means that 1. someone else has to go through your commits and fix them meaning trauble for them 2. content such as images you upload are in danger of being deleted. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 08:39, 2004 May 23 (UTC)

 * I used to sign my images and articles, so that i could show my friends that i am doing something worthwile on the internet, and that i have some articles under my name. Probably i went overboard. I will no longer sign my articles or images. But it may take some time to replace those existing images. (Anyway, thanx for mentioning! It is good manners to be modest!) :SudhirP 14:12, Jun 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * You could always link them to your user contributions page to show them how much work you've been doing. grendel|khan 16:09, 2004 Jun 4 (UTC)

Proposed Image Deletion
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All files in category Unclassified Chemical Structures listed for deletion
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title: User talk:SudhirP


text:
Newark Eagles

The Newark Eagles were a professional Negro league baseball team which played in the Negro National League from 1936 to 1948. They were owned by Abe and Effa Manley.

Formation
The Newark Eagles were formed in 1936 when the Newark Dodgers, established in 1933, merged with the Brooklyn Eagles, established in 1935. Abe Manley and his wife Effa Manley, owners and founders of the Brooklyn Eagles, purchased the Newark Dodgers franchise and combined the teams' assets and player rosters. Charles Tyler, the previous owner of the Dodgers, signed the team over in exchange for cancellation of an approximately $500 debt that Tyler owed Abe Manley.

Team management was left to Effa, making the Eagles the third professional baseball team owned and operated by a woman. The first such team was the St. Louis Cardinals, which was owned by Helene Hathaway Britton from 1911 to 1917, and the second such team was the Indianapolis ABCs who were owned by Olivia Taylor from 1922 to 1926. The Eagles shared Ruppert Stadium with the minor league Newark Bears.

"The Eagles were to (black) Newark what the Dodgers were to Brooklyn."

Decline and demise
After the close of the 1948 season, in the aftermath of Jackie Robinson's successful integration of Major League Baseball a year earlier, the Negro National League contracted and merged into the Negro American League. The Eagles were sold and moved to Houston, Texas for the 1949 season, where they became known as the Houston Eagles, part of the NAL's western division. Two years later they again relocated, this time to New Orleans. The New Orleans Eagles lasted one year before folding after the 1951 season.

Negro World Series champions
Under Effa Manley's guidance, the 1946 team won the Negro World Series, upsetting the Kansas City Monarchs in a 7-game series.

Notable alumni

 * Don Newcombe (1944–1945) 4 x MLB All Star; 1949 Rookie of the year; 1956 Cy Young Award; 1956 NL Most Valuable Player

title: Newark Eagles


text:
Caulk

Caulk or caulking is a material used to seal joints or seams against leakage in various structures and piping.

The oldest form of caulk consisted of fibrous materials driven into the wedge-shaped seams between boards on wooden boats or ships. Cast iron sewerage pipes were formerly caulked in a similar way. Riveted seams in ships and boilers were formerly sealed by hammering the metal.

Modern caulking compounds are flexible sealing compounds used to close up gaps in buildings and other structures against water, air, dust, insects, or as a component in firestopping. In the tunneling industry, caulking is the sealing of joints in segmental precast concrete tunnels, commonly by using concrete.

Wooden shipbuilding
Traditional caulking (also spelled calking) on wooden vessels uses fibers of cotton and oakum (hemp) soaked in pine tar. These fibers are driven into the wedge-shaped seam between planks, with a caulking mallet and a broad chisel-like tool called a caulking iron. The caulking is then covered over with a putty, in the case of hull seams, or else in deck seams with melted pine pitch, in a process referred to as paying, or "calefaction". Those who carried out this work were known as caulkers. In the Hebrew Bible, the prophet Ezekiel refers to the caulking of ships as a specialist skill.

Iron or steel shipbuilding
In riveted steel or iron ship construction, caulking was a process of rendering seams watertight by driving a thick, blunt chisel-like tool into the plating adjacent to the seam. This had the effect of displacing the metal into a close fit with the adjoining piece.

Boilermaking
Caulking of iron and steel, of the same type described above for ship's hulls, was also used by boilermakers in the era of riveted boilers to make the joints watertight and steamtight.

Application

For bulk use, caulk is generally distributed in disposable cartridges, which are rigid cylindrical cardboard or plastic tubes with an applicator tip at one end, and a movable plunger at the far end. These are used in caulking guns, which typically have a trigger connected to a rod which pushes the plunger, and has a ratchet to prevent backlash. The push rod may also be actuated by a motor or by compressed air. Similar mechanisms are used for grease guns.

For smaller applications, caulk may be distributed in squeeze tubes.

Backer rod
Backer rod, also called backer material or back-up rod, is a flexible foam product used behind caulking to increase elasticity, reduce consumption, force the caulking into contact with the sides of the joint creating a better bond, determine the thickness of the caulking, and define the cross-section hour-glass shape of the caulk. The backer rod also acts as a bond breaker to keep the caulking from sticking to the bottom of the opening—called a three-sided bond—with the caulk only adhering to the sides of the opening in an hour-glass shape it can flex more easily and is less likely to tear. Backer rods can also be used to reduce consumption of the caulking by filling part of the joints.

Closed-cell foam does not absorb water and is impermeable. Closed-cell rods are less compressible and should not be compressed more than 25%. Closed-cell rod will also lose firmness and out-gas if damaged during installation or overcompressed or at sharp bends. The gasses cannot pass through this backer rod and can deform, weaken, and even cause holes (leaks) in the caulk or sealant as it escapes.

Out-gassing is the reason that open-cell backer rod was developed. Open-cell foam is porous so it will let gasses through which could otherwise cause blistering of the caulk or sealant. Additionally, open-cell backer rod allows air to get to the back side of the caulk or sealant which accelerates curing when used with air-cured sealants such as silicone. Open-cell rod is more compressible than closed-cell foam and should be compressed 25% to 75%.

Energy efficiency
According to the Consumer Federation of America, sealing unwanted leaks around homes is an excellent way to cut home energy costs and decrease the household carbon footprint.

Also, sealing cracks and crevices around homes lessens the strain on home appliances and can save time, money and hassle by preventing major repairs.

Preventing infestation
Sealing cracks and crevices prevents ingress by rodents.

Acrylic latex
The most common type of caulk is acrylic latex, for general-purpose use. Not only is acrylic latex inexpensive, but it is also the easiest type to apply smoothly and later paint if needed.

Acrylic tile sealant
Acrylic tile sealant usually comes in small tubes and is commonly used for wet applications.

Polyurethane
Polyurethane caulk is very durable and professional grade.

Silicone

Silicone caulk or sealant is water-, mold-, and mildew-resistant. Technically, when a joint material is silicone-based, it is considered a sealant rather than caulk.

title: Caulk


text:
List of Peavey guitars

Peavey Guitars are electric, acoustic, and electric bass guitars branded by Peavey Electronics.

Guitars

 * Axcelerator Series
 * Axcelerator (made in USA 1994–1998)
 * Axcelerator AX (made in USA 1995–1998)
 * Axcelerator F (made in USA 1994)
 * Cropper Classic (made in USA)
 * Destiny Series
 * Destiny (made in USA 1989–1994)
 * Destiny Custom (made in USA 1989–1994)
 * Detonator Series
 * Detonator (made in USA)
 * Detonator AX (made in USA 1995–1998)
 * Detonator JX (made in USA)
 * EVH Wolfgang Series (1996–2004)
 * EVH Wolfgang
 * EVH Wolfgang Special
 * Falcon Series
 * Falcon (made in USA 1986–1988)
 * Falcon Active (made in USA 1988–1989)
 * Falcon Classic (made in USA 1988–1990)
 * Falcon Custom (Kahler tremolo – made in USA 1986–1988)
 * Falcon Custom (Power Bend II tremolo – made in USA 1989–1991)
 * Falcon 1 International Series (made in Korea)
 * Falcon Standard (made in USA 1989–1991)
 * Firenza Series
 * Impact Firenza (see Impact Series)
 * Firenza (made in Leakesville MS, USA 1998–2002)
 * Firenza AX (made in Leakesville MS, USA 1998–2002)
 * Firenza JX (made in Leakesville MS, USA 1998–2002)
 * G-90 (made in USA)
 * Generation Series
 * Generation Custom (made in USA 1989–1994)
 * Generation Custom ACM (made in USA)
 * Generation Custom EX
 * Generation EX (made in China)
 * Generation EXP
 * Generation EXP ACM (made in Korea)
 * Generation EXP Custom ACM
 * Generation S-1 (made in USA 1988–1994)
 * Generation S-2 (made in USA 1990–1994)
 * Generation S-3 (made in USA 1991–1994)
 * Generation Standard (made in USA 1989–1994)
 * Generation Triple/Single EX (made in China)
 * Generation Vintage EX (made in China)
 * Hartley Peavey Signature Series
 * Hartley Peavey Signature EX
 * Hartley Peavey Signature EXP (made in Korea)
 * Hartley Peavey Signature Select
 * Hartley Peavey Signature USA Custom (made in USA)
 * Hartley Peavey Special Series
 * Hartley Peavey Special CT USA (made in USA)
 * Hartley Peavey Special EX
 * Hartley Peavey Special USA (made in USA)
 * Horizon Series
 * Horizon (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Horizon II (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Horizon II Custom (made in USA 1984–1985)
 * Hydra Series
 * Hydra (made in USA)
 * Jeff Cook Signature Model (made in USA)
 * Impact Series
 * Impact 1 (made in USA 1985–1987); different model in the 1990s
 * Impact 1 Unity (made in USA 1987–1989)
 * Impact 2 (made in USA 1985–1987); different model in the 1990s
 * Impact Firenza (made in USA)
 * Impact Firenza AX (made in USA)
 * Impact Milano (made in USA)
 * Impact Torino I (made in USA)
 * Impact Torino II (made in USA)
 * Jack Daniel's Series
 * Jack Daniel's EX
 * Jack Daniel's EXP
 * Jack Daniel's USA (made in USA)
 * Jazz Fusion Series
 * JF-1 EXP (made in China) EX on guitar
 * JF-2 EXP (made in China)
 * Limited Series
 * Limited HB (made in Leakesville, Mississippi, USA)
 * Limited ST (made in Leakesville, Mississippi, USA)
 * Limited VT (made in Leakesville, Mississippi, USA)
 * Limited STD (made in Leakesville, Mississippi, USA)
 * Mantis Series
 * Mantis (made in USA 1984–1986)
 * Mantis LT (made in USA)
 * Milestone Series
 * Milestone (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Milestone 12-string (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Mystic (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Nitro Series
 * Nitro I (made in USA 1986–1989)
 * Nitro I Active (made in USA 1988–1990)
 * Nitro I Custom (made in USA 1987–1989)
 * Nitro II (made in USA 1987–1989)
 * Nitro III (made in USA 1987–1989)
 * Nitro III Custom (made in USA 1987–1989)
 * Nitro Limited (made in USA 1987–1990)
 * Nitro C-2 (made in USA 1990–1992)
 * Nitro C-3 (made in USA 1990–1992)
 * Odyssey Series
 * Odyssey (made in USA 1990–1994)
 * Odyssey 25th Anniversary (made in USA 1990–1994); 250 total
 * Odyssey Custom (made in USA 1990–1994)
 * Omniac JD USA (made in USA 2006–2009)
 * Patriot Series
 * Patriot (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Patriot Plus (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Predator Series
 * Predator (Kahler Flyer tremolo made in USA 1985–1988)
 * Predator (Power Bend tremolo made in USA)
 * Predator AX (made in USA 1995–1996)
 * Predator Plus (rosewood fingerboard version made in Korea and Vietnam)
 * Predator Plus (maple fingerboard version made in Vietnam only)
 * Predator Plus EXP (made in Korea and Indonesia)
 * Predator Plus HB (made in Korea)
 * PXD Series
 * PXD Tomb
 * PXD Tragic
 * PXD Twenty-Three
 * PXD Vicious
 * PXD DT Vicious (Devin Townsend signature model)
 * PXD Void
 * Raptor Series
 * Raptor I
 * Raptor II
 * Raptor III
 * Raptor Plus (made in Korea and China)
 * Raptor Plus EXP (made in Korea)
 * Raptor Plus TK (made in Korea)
 * Raptor Special
 * Razer (made in USA 1983–1986)
 * Reactor Series
 * Reactor (made in USA)
 * Reactor AX (made in USA 1995–1999)
 * Rockingham
 * Rotor Series
 * Rotor EX
 * Rotor EXP (bolt neck – made in Korea)
 * Rotor EXP (set neck – made in Korea)
 * Rotor EXP (locking tremolo – made in Indonesia)
 * Rotor EXP Limited (neck-through – made in Korea)
 * Rotor Special (single pickup)
 * SC Series
 * SC-1
 * SC-2
 * SC-3
 * T-Series
 * T-15 (made in USA 1982–1984)
 * T-25 (made in USA 1982–1983)
 * T-25 Special (made in USA 1982–1983)
 * T-26 (made in USA 1982–1983)
 * T-27 (made in USA 1982–1983)
 * T-27 Limited (made in USA 1982–1983)
 * T-30 (made in USA 1981–1983)
 * T-60 (made in USA 1978–1986)
 * Tracer Series
 * Tracer (Power Bend tremolo) (made in USA 1988–1994)
 * Tracer Custom (made in USA 1989–1990)
 * Tracer Custom '89 (made in USA 1989–1991)
 * Tracer Deluxe (made in USA 1988–1990)
 * Tracer Deluxe '89 (made in USA 1989–1991)
 * Tracer LT (made in USA 1991–1994)
 * Tracer II (made in USA 1989–1990)
 * Tracer II '89 (made in USA 1989–1991)
 * V-Type Series
 * V-Type NTB ST
 * V-Type NTB TR
 * V-Type EXP
 * V-Type U.S.A. (made in USA 2002–2004)
 * Vortex Series
 * Vortex 1 (made in USA 1985–1986)
 * Vortex 2 (made in USA 1985–1986)
 * Vortex EX
 * Vandenberg (made in USA)
 * Vandenberg (made in USA)

Bass guitars

 * Axcelerator Series (made in USA)
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * 6 String (discontinued)
 * Axcelerator 2-T (discontinued)
 * B-Quad (Brian Bromberg's signature, necks made by Modulus Guitars; made in USA)
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * BXP Series (made in Vietnam)
 * Cirrus Series (made in USA)
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * 6 String (discontinued)
 * Cyberbass
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * TL (Tim Landers's Signature Series (made in USA)
 * TL-5 5 String (discontinued)
 * TL-6 String (discontinued)
 * Dyna-Bass Series (made in USA with design help from Tim Landers)
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * Forum Series (made in USA)
 * Forum P/J (discontinued)
 * Forum AX (discontinued)
 * Forum Plus (discontinued)
 * Foundation Series (made in USA)
 * Foundation S P/J Schaller Pickups (discontinued); script logo
 * Foundation 4 String VFL Pickups (discontinued); block logo
 * Foundation 5 String VFL Pickups (discontinued); block logo
 * Foundation 2000 (discontinued); block Logo
 * Fury Series 4 string (made in USA)
 * 1st Generation Super Ferrite (discontinued); script logo
 * 2nd Generation Split P Bass Pickup (discontinued); block logo
 * 3rd Generation Split P bass Pickup (discontinued); block logo
 * Forum P/J Version of 3rd Generation Fury (discontinued); block logo
 * Fury Series (made in Korea)
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * 6 String (discontinued)
 * G-Bass (discontinued, made in USA)
 * Grind Bass USA (made in USA)
 * 4 String P/J (discontinued)
 * 5 String J/J (discontinued)
 * Grind Series (made in Vietnam/China)
 * 4 String
 * 5 String
 * 6 String
 * Jack Daniel's USA
 * Midibase
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * Milestone Series (made in Korea)
 * 4 String (discontinued)
 * 5 String (discontinued)
 * Millennium & Millennium Plus USA
 * 4 String JJ (discontinued)
 * 5 String JJ (discontinued)
 * 4 String J/MM (discontinued)
 * 5 String J/MM (discontinued)
 * Millennium International Series (made in Korea or Indonesia)
 * 4 String Passive (pictured)(discontinued)
 * 4 String Active (discontinued)
 * 5 String Passive (discontinued)
 * 5 String Active (discontinued)
 * Patriot (made in USA – discontinued)
 * RJ IV Randy Jackson Signature (U.S.A.) (discontinued)
 * Sarzo Bass Rudy Sarzo Signature Model (U.S.A) (discontinued)
 * T-Series (made in USA) (discontinued)
 * T-20 (discontinued)
 * T-40 (1978; discontinued)
 * T-45 (discontinued)
 * Unity Passive (1990; made in USA – discontinued)
 * Unity Series (1991; made in USA – discontinued)
 * Unity Series Koa (1991; made in USA – discontinued)
 * VWB Verdine White Signature Model (made in USA – discontinued)
 * Zodiac Series (discontinued)
 * Zodiac BXP (discontinued)
 * Zodiac DE Scorpio (discontinued)

Acoustic guitars

 * Aberdeen
 * Briarwood DR Series
 * Briarwood CL-1
 * Briarwood DR-1
 * Briarwood DR-112
 * Briarwood DR-2ER
 * Briarwood DR-3ER CDS
 * Briarwood DR-3ERS
 * Briarwood DR-4CA EQ
 * Briarwood DR-4CA WR EQ
 * Briarwood DR-5CA EQ QT
 * Briarwood FL-1
 * Ecoustic Series
 * Ecoustic (made in USA)
 * Ecoustic ATS (made in USA)
 * Indianola
 * International Series
 * PVI-705 Classical
 * Jack Daniel's Series
 * Jack Daniel's JD-AG1
 * Jack Daniel's JD-AG2
 * Jack Daniel's JD-AG3
 * Route 61

Serial numbers

 * Serial numbers correlate to shipping dates of US models only. 1978 to 1995.  Imports designated by EX, EXP, or BXP are not serialized by year.
 * 8Mxxxxxx ............................................1978
 * 0000xxxx t/m 0030xxxx ........................1978
 * 0031xxxx t/m 0047xxxx ........................1979
 * 0048xxxx t/m 0065xxxx ........................1980
 * 0066xxxx t/m 0094xxxx ........................1981
 * 0100xxxx t/m 0129xxxx ........................1982
 * 0130xxxx t/m 0169xxxx ........................1983
 * 0170xxxx t/m 0199xxxx ........................1984
 * 0200xxxx t/m 0239xxxx ........................1985
 * 0240xxxx t/m 0259xxxx ........................1986
 * 0260xxxx t/m 0339xxxx ........................1987
 * 0340xxxx t/m 0359xxxx ........................1988
 * 0360xxxx t/m 0419xxxx ........................1989
 * 04249338 t/m 0439xxxx ........................1990
 * 0440xxxx t/m 0519xxxx ........................1991
 * 0520xxxx t/m 0599xxxx ........................1992
 * 0600xxxx t/m 0639xxxx ........................1993
 * 0640xxxx t/m 0769xxxx ........................1994
 * 0770xxxx >>.........................................1995

title: List of Peavey guitars


text:
Emerge

Emerge may refer to:

 * Emerge: The Best of Neocolours, the fourth album of Neocolours
 * Emerge (magazine), a defunct news magazine
 * Emerge Stimulation Drink, a drink sold in UK Supermarkets
 * "Emerge" (song), a song by Fischerspooner
 * emerge, a command-line tool at the heart of the Portage package management system
 * Emerge, a frontend for the diff and diff3 commands for Emacs

title: Emerge


text:
Talk:Tit for tat

Axelrod's Competition
I changed the 1984 date that had been previously noted for Axelrod's competition. It was actually two competitions, and at least one of them had to have been held prior to Axelrod's 1981 publication of the original paper in the journal Science in 1981. There appears to be nice references in the Wikipedia article "Evolution of Cooperation" but I don't know how to do a link. I'm not exactly sure why the fourth condition applies, so if anyone finds an explanation, please post. I think the fourth condition is necessary because the retaliation only works if the agent plays the same opponent twice in a row. Herman - hke AT home.nl

"Downfall"
I think this section either needs to be removed or renamed/rewritten. I can only interpret the existence of this section as a misunderstanding of the workings of IPD and Tit for Tat. The section says that Tit for Tat was "beaten for the first time" in the year 2004, which would be incorrect. The success of a given strategy competing in the IPD is entirely dependent on the environment. Robert Axelrod outlined this in his book The Evolution of Cooperation, where he also tested a population where Tit for Tat didn't win. The situation in that population was simular to the one in the "Downfall" section - one category of strategies became induced to provide many points for another (altough they were not deliberately designed for this purpose), which lead to Tit for Tat losing the top position. The lasting point is that Tit for Tat is robust in a wide variety of environments - including those where the population of strategies are allowed to increase/decline over a number of generations according to their score. [signed by /dkristoffersson]

 * The naive interpretation of "winning" doesn't include the sort of "winning" that resulted in one member outscoring Tit for Tat - the article should be more clear about the precise definition of "winning" used in this case. [unsigned]

Requested move
The term "Tat" in this article shouldn't be capitalized. According to the naming convention:
 * Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is a proper noun (such as a name) or is otherwise almost always capitalized (for example: John Wayne, but not Computer game).

--goethean ॐ 19:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~

 * Oppose Tit for Tat is a proper noun, it is the name of a specific strategy. --best, kevin · · · Kzollman | Talk · · · 01:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

 * Support for the reason given. (And because "a specific strategy" does not make a proper noun as according to our comma-splicer.) Stephan Leeds 06:00, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose I agree with Kzollman for the reason specified: Proper Noun. Decision should depend on etymology of expression.  --TimeHorse (talk) 11:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Decision
Page moved per request and double redirects fixed. Ryan Norton T 07:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

What tournament?
What tournament is this article referring to? It just mentions a tournament without any explanation. - idiotoff 07:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Temporal confusion
In the introductory paragraph, "It was first introduced by Anatol Rapoport in Robert Axelrod's 1984 tournament." In the fourth paragraph of the Overview section, "For several decades Tit-for-Tat was the most effective strategy…" So... am I missing a few decades? Theory.Of.Eli 20:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed the decades and reworded the sentence. It is not perfect, but now more accurate. Marc Harper 14:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Practical Applications
Is there any room on this page for practical applications of Tit for tat? Examples: Bittorrent, Stop Lights… Swerty 20:05, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Or a lot of cooperation in nature (between unrelated organisms). Yeah examples are good, I came to this article to see if it mentioned bittorrent. BrokenSegue 03:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

What about Tit for two tats
Tit for two tats is sometimes (but not always) more successfull than tit for tat. It certainly deserves a mention. It retaliates with defection only after two consequitive defections by the opponent. This avoid some locks into mutual retaliation loop. [unsigned posting]

Logical Fallacy
The article states that "A fifth condition applies to make the competition meaningful: if an agent knows that the next play will be the last, it should naturally defect for a higher score." There is a logical fallacy in the reasoning that defection is best for the last move. While it is true that, whether the other player chooses to cooperate or defect, choosing to defect will always gain a higher score, this is a simplistic view. Generally, both players cooperating is more beneficial for both sides than both defecting. So, if both defect because they are aware it is the last play, then they both get less points than they would if they had both cooperated. [unsigned comment]
 * There is no fallacy. My best option is to defect if I know you will have no recourse to exact revenge. Your statement, "Generally, both players cooperating is more beneficial for both sides than both defecting." is true only if it is iterated. In the non-iterated Prisoner's dilemma, you must agree, defect is the best option. When there is only one move left, it is effectively a single run of the non-iterated scenario. Thus, people should always defect on their last turn (which is why the rules state that they must never know when the game will end). BrokenSegue 04:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * To both of which I would say, you are as believable as your sources. What are they? Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

 * I believe the reference was to the payoff matrix e.g. both cooperating gives 3 points each, both defecting gives 1 each. In this case, even if it is not iterated, if both defect on the last move they will have less points than if both cooperate. - AlKing464

 * True (and I just added the payoff matrix to clarify the situation), however, there still is not a fallacy. In fact, the matrix is correct and consistent with other texts. The issue is that even though they would be better off both cooperating instead of both defecting, they will still both defect. This is because no matter what their opponent does, they are better off defecting (and have no way to enforce cooperation agreements). Thus, in a non-iterated round, they will both defect. BrokenSegue 14:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

 * If I am not mistaken, in the Tit for Tat strategy, an agent will defect when playing a partner who defected last time, and cooperate when playing a partner who cooperated last time. It doesn't matter if its the final iteration, Tit for Tat agents only consider the previous iteration...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.248.99.157 (talk) 01:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Evolutionary Stable Strategy
The strategy is not in itself an evolutionary stable strategy, by definition, as is stated at the end of the first paragraph. While it prevents invasion by defectors, it is possible to invade a Tit for Tat environment with cooperators. TechnoBone 16:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Source, so we can use this observation? Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Prisoner's dilemma article information
There is a lot of information on Prisoner's dilemma that can be incorporated into this specific one. --165.230.46.148 22:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Please, the game theoretic needs not more cut-and-paste material, but, rather, sourced and more reliable, verifiable material. No more essaying, please. Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

What about unequally powerful players?
I tried the tit for two tats strategy on the Utopia web-game and failed within days. The reason was, I guess, mostly because my opponents were more powerful than me. They got a full payoff when they defected. When I defected in response, I barely affected them. So "tit for tat", and "tit for two tats" seems applicable only in scenarios of players of equal power. Can anyone give a tip of strategies and research they have found concerning unequally powerful players?
 * In Robert Axelrods book The Complexity of Cooperation he mentions for the first time the problem of unequally powerful players on page 127. Tommy 20:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Offensive statement in Implications?
There is a possible offensive statement in its implications, in the following quote: Also the theory can give insight in how technological innovation have taken place in history, and in particular, why the modern age evolved in the many competing kingdoms of Europe, but not for example in China. I can't tell if this information is derived from Axelrod's book or not; could we reference that as the book's idea, or at least flesh out how Tit for Tat relates to the Enlightenment happening in Europe, not China? I'm not trying to be excessively PC, but there were a lot of environmental factors involved in how different regions developed. And besides, the exact point is unclear -- are we saying that China's relative isolation made them less internally cooperative? It seems a bit sketchy to me. Aletheion 18:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks like nonsense to me. It's been deleted. --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 03:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

...and so on. Really?
The overview claims, "Similarly if it knows that the next two plays will be the last, it should defect twice, and so on." [Emphasis mine.] Clearly(?), this does not inductively extend to: "If it knows the competition will be limited to a finite number of plays, it should always defect." Why not?

Or does it? And Tit for Tat should only be used when the end is determined randomly, after each round, so that an infinite game could be possible. Furthermore, only assuming a universe that manages to avoid a big crunch or heat death. (:  — gogobera (talk) 20:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I gave you a comment on your talk page. Tommy (talk) 21:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Remarks [Generality of Article, Etymology]
K, this article is great and all, but Tit for Tat is an adage or saying, and the general populace does not think of it in relation to the prisoner's dilemma. This article should either be a subsection in an article about the actual saying or it's own article, such as Tit for Tat (Prisoner's Dilemma Strategy). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.200.52 (talk) 02:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Seconded! Specifically, what is the etymology of the expression? --TimeHorse (talk) 11:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ in part, in the edit today. I began the generalization of the article today. Please, @User:TimeHorse, others, continue the process?  Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Has Nash Equilibrium been proven?
Has it been proved (under appropriate conditions) that Tit for Tat is a Nash Equilibrium strategy for Infinitely Repeated Prisoners' Dilemma? 146.115.34.7 (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Not just in game theory
Game theory is not all of tit for tat. It has other informal meaning that ought to be explained at the start before the game theory kicks in. 89.242.93.56 (talk) 13:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ in the edit today. Began the process of generalizing the article today.  Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Tit for tat is not optimal
My recollection is that tit for tat is not optimal; that the testing in the 1980's was (inadvertently) rigged in its favor. Does anyone have more concrete information along these lines? --Quantling (talk) 17:00, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Not so impractical for real-life
This parenthetical in the Overview section: (Thus, the game-theory measure of effectiveness is impractical in many real life situations where players do have a vested interest in, or an altruistic compassion towards, other players.) I have to disagree. If the players do have "a vested interest in, or altruistic compassion toward, other players" then that should be reflected in their own payoff matrix. It does not make game theory impractical, it just means you have to incorporate it into the model. Should we remove the parenthetical, add a discussion of this, or leave it how it is (in case someone disagrees with me)? Luqui (talk) 12:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

 * It seems the preceding sentence is at the root of your objection, as it generally rules out a payoff matrix which takes into account benefits other to the player. This would be incorrect if, for example, the players were genetically related or had some other common interest eg Formula 1 racers from the same team. Stephen B Streater (talk) 15:03, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree with Luqui; the parenthetical statement is misleading. A given model that does not include altruistic compassion in the payoffs isn't a shortcoming or weakness of game theory, but rather indicates that specific model is incorrect because it does not account for the "universe" being modeled.  Further, altruism can arise simply because the game is repeated as agents have a vested interest in their future transactions, even if the agents don't have altruistic compassion towards others.  Many (most?) real-life interactions do not have strictly independent actions.  Agents typically will either interact with the same agent sometime in the future or incur some effects due to communication of agents (e.g., if you rob a store, that agent will report your actions to the police, and you'll be arrested if caught).  Pure one-shot games are somewhat rare.  Information on this is pretty easy to find, such as http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/game-theory/ and much of this whole book: http://www.amazon.com/Repeated-Games-Reputations-Long-Run-Relationships/dp/0195300793  Halcyonhazard (talk) 08:05, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree that one could redefine the payoff matrix so that it included altruistic compassion and/or a vested interest in the fate of the other players. But then we would have no guarantee that the payoff matrix would continue to have the prisoner's dilemma feature (where there is advantage to the selfishness of ratting when the other player does not), and thus we could easily find ourselves in a situation where the tit for tat strategy is not applicable.  Or saying it another way, there are many situations where the tit for tat strategy is applicable (and more-or-less optimal) only if those situations are "dumbed down" by eliminating real world considerations.  I know people who see the phrase "tit for tat is optimal" and don't realize that the applicability of that statement has limits in the real world.  I am hopeful to have some note of this "limited applicability" in the article.  Quantling (talk) 13:45, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Modeling complex real-world interactions in social settings as simple repeating normal form games is analogous to modeling momentum using spherical cows gliding on frictionless surfaces in introductory physics classes; it's useful for instruction and may even be a good approximation for certain (many) real-world settings, but it is still a very simplified model. Tit for tat is an important strategy that is most easily explained in such a simple environment, so I agree with your assessment that it should be qualified as such. Halcyonhazard (talk) 20:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I for one believe all of the above arguments to the extent that sources are given in support. We editors are not the experts, we are editors. This is not a blog, it is an encyclopedia. Make any changes desired, but based on sources please, not based on who wins arguments here, or because on editor assents to the request of another. On matters of WP policy, assent. On matters of content, source. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Etymology
A good source for the Etymology of the expression is the Online Etymology Dictionary: probably a corruption of "Tip for Tap", as in I hit you so hard I tip you over and you hit me back with just a tap; this being unequal use of force. --TimeHorse (talk) 11:42, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ in the edit today. Made this edit in the lede rewrite and first section introduction today, using M-W dictionary as source of the same information.  Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:58, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Christian tradition is not an eye for an eye
Christian tradition is not an eye for an eye tradition. Should be corrected imho..--LarryJ 19:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Larjohn (talk • contribs)
 * ❌ because not found. I could find no evidence of this connection. The "eye for eye" appears in links at the end, and so this request is not germane to the article as it stands (as far as I can see). Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Example
Note, that if one of the two tit-for-tat strategists would switch to defecting in last game, as that wouldn't produce any disadvantages for him in the future, he would win having 30 points while the other tit-for-tat strategist would lose having only 25. And if all would defect one another in last move, the game will end in a 26-point draw. It's clear that if the prisoners aren't highly altruistic (as usually is the case with bandits) they will all defect one another in the end, because doing otherwise may only disadvanantage them. This is, of course, if they know that 6-th game is the last one and this is not a part of tit-for-tat strategy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.221.56.166 (talk) 20:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Source of opinion? Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Etymology, repeat
Two years ago there had been an etymology  discussion; but, no one ever performed the edit. If someone can, then please do so. It is very needed; game theory is annoying to someone who simply needs the long term history. [ unsigned, presumed from 24.4.200.52 (talk) ]

 * hopiakuta  Please  do   sign  your  communiqu%c3%a9 .%7e%7eThank You,   DonFphrnqTaub  Persina. 00:00, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

 * ✅ in the edit today. I accomplished this twice requested general improvement to the article, which underpins all other usages (meanings) appearing in the article, whether game theoretic, biologic, or social psych. Unclear why the preceding editor focused in the lack of signature, and not on making the edit.  Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:02, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

This Article is the %$#&!!!
Keep up the good work. [unsigned comment, 07:35, 23 March 2012 (UTC)]
 * Not really a useful contribution. But, at least no one can revert you for taking your initiative. Leprof 7272 (talk) 17:00, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Picture confusion
This picture really does not capture the idea of this concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.253.123.211 (talk) 01:01, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ in the edit today. I concurred, and removed the image.  Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:59, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Reference sorely needed
This phrase seems to scream out for a reference: "The team which recently won over a pure tit for tat team outperformed it with some of their algorithms because they submitted multiple algorithms which would recognize each other and assume a master and slave relationship (one algorithm would "sacrifice" itself and obtain a very poor result for the other algorithm to be able to outperform tit for tat on an individual basis, but not as a pair or group)."

That was a very pertinent and current comment at one point in time and was perhaps independently recognizable as such, but that time is long gone now and needs a reference and perhaps rephrasing to indicate that it is no longer current. [unsourced comment]
 * ✅ by someone earlier. Offending statement no longer seems to appear.  Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:54, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Key Concepts of "Cooperate" and "Retaliate" Never Defined or Explained
Adding an example near the top of the article of what cooperation and retaliation mean, perhaps in relation to a prisoner's dilemma scenario, would be very helpful. In lieu of any explanation, I can speculate that cooperation could mean silence, and retaliation means blaming/betrayal, but there should not be a need to speculate on such fundamental concepts to the article topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.100.23.77 (talk) 20:16, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌ but I concur it needs to be. Issue remains a problem in the business, social psych, and game theory sections. I concur with need for clarity, esp. in game theory and social psych areas, where the definitions exist. Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:55, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

"In popular culture"
The section heading is misleading -- the section goes on to talk about similar concepts in the Codex of Hammurabi and the Abrahamic religions. Are those "popular culture" now? Maybe the heading should be "Similar concepts" or something (or the section could be removed entirely -- the first link under "See also" does the job just as well IMO). 178.115.129.150 (talk) 09:35, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree. The "See also" link pretty much covers it.  I will make the edit.  Leegrc (talk) 15:09, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Inaccurately narrow lede, and WP:VERIFY, POV, OR, WEASEL, EDITORIAL, and PEACOCK violations
Before I begin to explain today's edit, please note that the refimprove tag has been in place since 2007. The issues with the tone and lack of sourcing are—based on review of edit history—article issues of longstanding. Well, today, in order to make the article usable as a wiki-reference, they became a priority.

On coming here to link to this article, today, I could simply not reference it as a general article on this subject, the way it stood. Not only was the lede filled with game theoretic references indecipherable to a lay audience, but that specialist lede content appeared to the exclusion of the various other uses of the term in general and scholarly venues; as well, the lede simply did not substantively reflect existing article content. So, I edited the lede, to make it a general statement of the meanings and uses of the title term.

In order to do this, and to separate the game theoretic from other areas, I created sections in the article, including one providing the first sourced definition and etymology of the title term. The sectioning had as a second impact creating sections that I and others in our specialty areas can then populate (leaving the game theoretic sections for the true specialists in those areas).

I also began to generally mark where in the article specific WP:VERIFY, WP:POV, WP:OR, WP:WEASEL, WP:EDITORIAL, and WP:PEACOCK violations were occurring. To do this inline would have mean near solid tagging in some sections, and so, sadly, I had to resort to section tags; I then summarized these in one multiple issue below the lede (because the lede is the one thing largely fixed). ''The tags at top and in sections can be removed, quickly, as people attend to these real, substantive issues. Sentence after sentence in the social psychology and game theory sections cannot express the founding editors' personal intellectual opinions. These statements need to be justified (made verifiable), line by line, or better, replaced by new scholarly text that is sourced, more general, less opinionated, and up-to-date.''

Given that this article had evolved into largely a specialist tome for game theorists, and not the general article it was intended to be, I expect that bias may result in a reversion, rather than accepting this profs guidance toward a good, general article. I would simply ask you to use this effort on my part to see the article for what it is—a largely unfinished (unsourced) student opinion essay, limiting the general article to the narrow areas of game theory that s/he knew about at the time of writing. Now is the time to make the article into a general article about the title subject. If reverting, please, don't throw baby out with bath. Remove things you think are wrong, and not the whole. Cheers. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:53, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅. I have noted the several requests made by others over the preceding history of this article, that were in fact achieved with today's edit. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk)

 * This seems absurd. The article is not perfect therefore it has issues but that does not mean it deserves such heavy flagging ESPECIALLY as the editor responsible for all this seems to have revised the article themself.  For instance, in an ideal article page refs would be provided, but in many many MANY wiki articles they are not given.  Simply flagging the article in this way is imo pedantic - whu not spend the time improving the references instead of complaining?! I've removed the article level flag as it seems unjustifiably heavy handed, ancient, and especially as the text is now heavily and extensively annotated with all the todo's demanded.  Is it any wonder there are now only 30,000 or so editors when such negativity is their reward?  Give us a break, roll your sleeves up and do the work instead. LookingGlass (talk) 21:03, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Agree with LookingGlass about the approach, but I especially object to the direction it has been thrown into. So much so that I'm skeptical on the seriousness of the edit. Even though the term almost universally refers to game theory first and foremost, these edits have now made the English saying into the article topic and divided it among several fields that it has no place in whasoever. The etymology is completely unimportant as literally all modern usage of the word stems from the game theory, and is worth only a footnote. "In game theory" has become a minor aspect hidden under all the other sections. The arguments brought forward are also severely flawed, e.g. "the general article it was intended to be" and "I expect that bias may result in a reversion". And then "Done" message also makes it look as if it was a consensus when in reality it was a solo job. I'm going to revert it to the last stable version. For the reason why, just compare the versions before and after prof's help. The last two years were cleaning up his mess. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 16:19, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

 * re: "literally all modern usage of the word stems from the game theory" - What planet are you on? Loads of people know and use this phrase who have never even heard of game theory. 172.75.76.157 (talk) 09:02, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Usage w/ & w/o verb, and hyphenation
The article does nothing to say how the phrase is used in regular parlance, i.e. that you need to add a verb: "to give tit for tat", e.g. "Sally gave Barb tit for tat - so juvenile!" In nearly all the article, it's used as a type of strategy: "tit-for-tat strategy". Note that in this use case it must be hyphenated, but never when used with "give". I suggest the hyphenation be fixed throughout the article. 172.75.76.157 (talk) 09:20, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

"Tip for tap"
One not-so-great source is insufficient for us the make the as-if-known-fact claim that the phrase "tip for tap" was the origin, when lots of other material says it comes from "this for that" (ultimately via Dutch or Low German phrases for the same thing), or possibly from a French phrase meaning 'equal for equal'. It's easy to find material on this, though it will take some weeding to find sources good enough to cite. This article really needs an "Etymology" section with the various hypotheses presented. Judging from old threads above, there used to be one, but perhaps it was deleted for being a bunch of OR without any sources or something. Not really interested in what was once there, just in making a good section like that now. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:36, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tit for tat


text:
User talk:Yammy Yamathorn

Hi Yammy, I'm going to unblock you as you have promised not to vandalise Wikipedia again. Please reward the trust I am placing in you, by testing the software here and nowhere else. If you need any help or advice, just ask on my talk page or you can email me. Don't worry about others in your school, they will not be able to take down this site, and if they vandalise they will be dealt with.

theresa knott 13:21, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

OK you should find you are able to edit now. theresa knott 15:09, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Hi, it's me again. As you can see your page on All Saints Construction has been deleted by another admin. Please remember that this is an encylopedia. The page you wrote was not suitable for an encylopedia. If you want help in writing an article that doesn't get deleted straight away drop me a line on my talk page. theresa knott 11:20, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Adding the page again is a bad idea. Charles Matthews 21:27, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Your "purple headed Trojan warrior" article has been deleted -- you are abusing Theresa's good faith, and endangering your continued ability to edit here. Please stop posting nonsense or you may find yourself blocked again -- contribute worthwhile information. Jwrosenzweig 21:39, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Please stop vandalizing Wikipedia--Beelzebubs 21:50, 12 May 2004 (UTC) (I know who you are)

 * Wow! That penis pic of yours weighs in at over two megs! Where are planning on putting that thing? –Hajor 21:58, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm not asking you to write articles I'm interested in -- although I think you'd find it hard to name a subject I'm not interested in. I'm saying that if you can't see that we don't need an article about some obscure nickname for the penis, you really don't understand what we're doing here. We don't write articles about every nickname for human genitals. It's obvious to me that you haven't read many of our articles: please, before you contribute more, take time to read what is already here. It will help you understand what we're looking for. Look at the new articles featured on the main page to understand what we're aiming for. You seem mostly interested in writing personal accounts about your school and adding random penis-related information here -- I don't think you'll find many who think them important additions to a compendium of human knowledge. This isn't to say that you can't contribute well. You seem to be able to write reasonably well, so I think you do have something to offer. But you need to take a little time first to see how we do what we do. I looked around this site a lot before beginning to contribute here -- it helps, believe me. Please take this place seriously, because right now, most of what you've done has simply made work for others who must clean up after you. I trust you can do much better than that. Jwrosenzweig 22:19, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
 * WVFD was a good example of this. You haven't been around enough to know that a) we don't want self-referential articles in the article namespace unless they offer truly important information, b) WVFD isn't used as an abbreviation around here, and c) we don't write one sentence articles (known as "sub-stubs") unless we are sure they can be expanded.  What could have possibly been added to WVFD other than your one sentence?  I urge you to take time to learn how we work here before adding any more articles. Jwrosenzweig 22:21, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry grumpy pants i gust wanna help after you said you didnt want stupid stuff i saw a thing that said wiki needs an article on VFD so i did one. If you dont want my "reasonably well" writing thanjust say so gosh. Ps can i write on the current events?---Yammy Yamathorn
 * Grumpy pants? :-) Heh, all right -- where did you see we needed an article on VFD?  That's weird.  Well, we try to keep articles having to do with maintaining wikipedia in the Wikipedia: namespace.  Notice -- an article on baseball is at baseball, but, say, Wikipedia's policies about images are at Image use policy.  You can absolutely write about current events, with a couple of things to keep in mind: you need to write about events for which verifiable information is available (see Verifiability) and the events will need to be important enough to stand the test of time (so we don't write about Derek Jeter's slump at the plate, but we would definitely cover the bombing of the Chechen president and the Abu Ghraib prison).  If you're writing about a current event, try to see if there's an existing article you can fit the information into -- we'd rather expand an article called Armenian literature than have a new one called Armenia's best-selling books of 2004, if that makes any sense.  Let me know if I can be of any more help.  Grumpy Pants

Lol sorry for calling you names. your a funny guy grumpy pants i think that should be your new name. Thanks for the help ill read all that crap you gave me. thanks ---Yammy Yamathorn

Yammy a couple of points
 * 1) File formats - .bmp and .art are no good I've deleted head.bmp and penis.art for this reason.
 * 2) Image:Penis.bmp I haven't deleted this yet, because it looks like it may be of use but you have to put info on where it came from. It looks like you scanned it from a text book. Is that the case?
 * 3) All saints construction is not suitable for this encylopedia. Everything has to be written from a neutral point of view. Take out everything that is your personal opinion and the article might be salvagable.
 * 4) no personal attacks Do not be rude to people. In fact go out of your way to be polite. This is a hard and fast rule. No exceptions.

I hope you can learn to fit in here and abide by our standards. theresa knott 07:31, 13 May 2004 (UTC) I will Theresa, thanks =D---Yammy Yamathorn

I've tidied a few of the pages you've editted recently, and made some suggestions on the talk page of yor school entry. Go check them out. I am dissapointed that you are still making personal attacks. Calling another user a Tart is unacceptable. I've been very patient with you so far but you have to realise that rude behaviour will not be tolerated. One more personal attack on anyone and I will block you myself. You are making me look bad at the moment. Turn yourself around, learn the standards of politeness that we expect, and start making me look good for unblocking you.(I like to look good, don't we all?)theresa knott 11:57, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Theresa. As for you, "Yammy", I'd be happy to help you with your contributions, if you stop posting insults on my userpage. --Beelzebubs 21:43, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Patric im sorry for calling you a tart but you are not a very good friend. Step up to the plate and help me and not just trying to make yourself look good.---Yammy Yamathorn 21:53, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Yammy I've blocked your username Rick K. because it is so similar to RickK. I'm sorry but I do not believe that you didn't know about him when you chose the username. As for your other usernames, we are not keen on multiple accounts for one user here (we call them sockpuppet accounts) so you need to choose which of them you want and stop using the others. I'm going to assume that Yammy Yamathorn is the name you want to use, and so am going to redirect the userpages of your other accounts here. (if you'd rather be one of the others let me know and I will fix it). theresa knott 08:48, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Yammy Yamathorn