text:
Talk:Planetes

Name order
How would you feel about changing the orders on Tanabe and Hoshino's names? Almost anyone interested in this anime will probably watch the episodes released by the fansub groups, all of which used the original Japanese name order: "If the name is not widely known and used by English speakers, then stick to the Japanese order." Also I'd like to add a section on the themes of the anime (can't talk about the manga, but I plan to pick that up soon), but I'm not sure that fits with in the scope of Wikipedia. Most of it is fairly obvious (criticism of Japanese 'salaryman' society, ignoring cultural tradition/moral considerations, Buddhist philosophy vs. Existentialism, etc.), but I wouldn't want to violate WP's rule about publishing original analysis. At the same time, writing in English about the themes of some tiny Japanese Anime isn't exactly high-profile work that academics (or anyone) is really clamoring for. How exactly does one go about writing about something with almost no English language primary sources? Also I think this could use a section on the differences between the manga and the anime. Just off the top of my head: a bunch of 'minor' characters were dropped for the anime, in the manga it's a Mars mission and in the anime it's a Jupiter mission.--AsianAstronaut 21:20, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm opposed to the name reordering for two reasons. One, because it would be confusing to have Fee and Yuri in western order and Hachi and Ai in eastern order.  However, the way you added the kanji and names is fine by me.  Secondly, the Tokyopop manga puts the names in the western order and I imagine when the anime is released stateside, so will that.

 * As far as everything else goes, the no original research is mostly designed to keep people's pet theories about all manner of weirdness out of Wikipedia. In this fashion, if one user truly believes that all Freemason leaders are aliens from the planet Omicron-Persius 8 or whatever, his pet theory isn't treated as encyclopedic.  Interpreting a television show, on the other hand, I don't feel applies.  First off, I agree with your interpretation (especially about the criticism of Japanese salarymen), so the creators must have had that in mind.  I think it's okay to add.

 * If you have any other ideas, go ahead and add them (or talk about them here - I've almost finished the series, I need to download the last two episodes). R ADICAL B ENDER  ★  22:03, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't care about the order and thinks its kind of humorous its being discussed. :) But I think writing about the themes of Planetes is important. If you wander into your own personal views, we'll be sure to tell you. Currently the genre of Planetes isn't even addressed really, outside of it having SciFi elements.
 * I'm opposed the name reordering since it's wrong. Chinese names aren't reversed; Japanese ones are and it's a silly hypercorrection to undo it. The themes of the manga and anime are fine to mention with sourcing. You feeling that it's "obviously" talking about salaryman culture is just your personal feeling (even if another poster agreed with you); it will be just as obviously uninterested in salarymen, just as obviously focused on zaibatsu schinanegans w/o interest in salarymen, or just as obviously broadly attacking corporatist capitalism in toto to others. I have no idea what you mean about "ignoring cultural tradition" since it doesn't at any level. Similarly, both the manga and show are much more Christian than Buddhist and no one is remotely existentialist. — Llywelyn II   01:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Actually, in the Manga it is a Jupiter mission. There is a side story involving Goro, the father of the main character, who was one of the initial crewmen on the pioneering Mars mission.  The main story still revolves around Hachimaki and him becoming a member of the Jupiter mision (well, revolves around is a little strong, the manga is more of an ensemble character drama than anything else). -DannoHung
 * There's no side story. Goro is more childishly portrayed as a complete badass, but the mission is just the Jupiter mission the entire way through. There's an early issue that does talk about a Mars mission in the future tense but it's very quickly retconned out and the focus is on Jupiter throughout. — Llywelyn II   01:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Translated as Wanderers?
Why am I seeing this being translated as "Wanderers"? That's like translating "Jupiter is a planet" into "Jupiter is a wanderer." Modern usage of the word planet, you see, derives from the fact that the planets seem to wander against the "fixed" background of stars, hence they are wanderers. A think a more correct "translation" of Planetes would be ... uhhh ... Planets. Any idea on this? -- Cyde Weys 06:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Planet says: "The name comes from the Greek term πλανήτης, planētēs, meaning "wanderer"", so the Wanderers translation is the most literal. Plus it makes more sense; 'Planets' is not a particularly fitting title for the series, but 'Planetes/Wanderers' has a double meaning, which I think was probably intentional. Heliocentric 07:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Note then, that this series has a typo in its name. The page for Planet says it's spelled 'ΠΛΑΝΉΤΗΣ', but the anime has it spelled 'ΠΛΑΝΉΤΕΣ' which would sound like 'planetis'.  Whoops. :-)  Of course, the number one reason for translating this as "Wanderers" is that the show itself uses the text "Wanderers" in the eyecatch when it shows the same word in several other languages.  You can't argue with the original makers...
 * (First time I edit anything, so please bare with possible mistakes =). I am just changing Greek to Ancient Greek, as there is a difference. No one would use "ΠΛΑΝΗΤΗΣ" (or "ΠΛΑΝΗΤΕΣ" which is simply the plural of "ΠΛΑΝΗΤΗΣ" and is pronounced "Planites" by the way :P) for "Wanderer" today (the modern Greek word for that would be "ΠΕΡΙΠΛΑΝΗΤΗΣ"). Only in Ancient Greek does it have that meaning.
 * It's ancient Greek but Greek in the English language generally means ancient Greek. Modern Greek is the one that gets specified since it's so much less important, except to the current speakers. — Llywelyn II   01:43, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It would sound like plan-naay-tays instead of plan-naay-taays. The only difference between eta and epsilon in Attic was vowel length and during the Hellenistic period it was the other one that started to sound like long E, transcribed /i/. Neither ever has sounded like the English short I that you'd get in the ending -tis. — Llywelyn II   01:43, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * the korean 헤매는 사람 translates perfectly as 'wanderers'.-Lordraydens 04:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As does the Japanese 流浪人. WindOwl 13:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And the real title typo is sometimes PlanetES or Planet ES, the ES seems really important as the official URL www.planet-es.net is trying to show. Lacrymocéphale 12:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In what way is that important? They just had to get the URL. If you think there's a deeper meaning, what is it? — Llywelyn II   01:43, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Almost all the above comments are wrong :) The reason why the title was thought to be mistaken is because the transcription planētes is ambiguous and can denote both the Ancient Greek πλάνητες "wanderers" (sing.: πλάνης) and the Modern Greek (el) πλανήτες [planites] "planets" (the sing. is πλανήτης; πλανήτης is the same both in grc and el, but its plural is different in grc: πλανῆται). Since it seems to be the case that the creators of the series intended to use a grc term for "wanderers", they were right in choosing πλάνητες. Now, the three grc words πλάνης "wanderer" (pl.: πλάνητες), -πλανητής "wanderer (only in compound words)" (pl.: πλανηταί; from -πλανᾶσθαι "to wander"), and πλανήτης "wandering star, planet" (pl.: πλανῆται), which were confused in the comments above, are irrelevant to each other (they share the same root πλαν-, but they have slightly different meanings/functionalities). --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Does that mean the article is currently correct? Doceirias (talk) 03:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is! I have linked the grc word to Wiktionary, so that any reader who wishes to can learn more about it. --Omnipaedista (talk) 19:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

 * More recently, no. Someone treated "planet" as the primary meaning, which is wrong. Probably you need a separate and well sourced #Name section to stop people from "correcting" the article in the fashion above, though. — Llywelyn II   01:43, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Fixed. For anyone confused by the LS entry, it very clearly states that the meaning of the word is not "planets" and that planet is only a meaning for planētes asteres, "wandering stars", which is an entirely separate idea. I would even extend the intro discussion to mention it as the etymon for the English "planets" but it isn't. That's a separate derivation from the related verb. — Llywelyn II   06:03, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Manga scans?
Can anyone get scans of single panels of the manga, one (hopefully memorable and iconic) panel per chapter? My scanner is on the fritz, so I don't think I can use my copies. Thanks! --TcDohl 03:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Are we even allowed to do that as far as copyrights are concerned? A case can be made for screencaps from the anime being fair use but I think manga scans have crossed into iffy territory. -Loren 04:20, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no difference between screen caps and scans. There's nothing fundamentally different about copyright laws regarding video and pictures.  As long as we meet fair use we're okay.  -- Cyde Weys  04:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * There are a few images on the TokyoPop website. Palm_Dogg 05:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * We can use them as fair use, just as long as they're single panel. And the images in the Tokyopop website are only for volume 1, and the images that they do have aren't the memorable and/or iconic images from the manga. --TcDohl 05:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going to recommend moving the Planetes section to its own article. The anime already has one and the summaries needlessly extend the article.  BTW, DVD 6 just came out and Episode 24 is A-W-E-S-O-M-E! Palm_Dogg 05:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you don't need to tell us how good Planetes is. And I definitely agree, but we need those single panel scans to make it complete. And I'll get the DVDs in a few days, so I'll do the screenshots. --TcDohl 06:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration of the week = failure?
This really disappoints me. Having Planetes as the frontrunner as the Anime Collaboration of the Week for three weeks only to be defeated in the last minute, then when it actually becomes the Collaboration of the Week, nothing! The only significant changes that I've seen are the changes I've made to the manga summary. It's still very far from featured article quality, since it's still too heavy on the characters list and the manga summary. All the other changes were deciding where to put the spoiler tags. There's more changes in the last two days right before being chosen as the Collaboration of the Week than on the actual week. Well, this really increases my confidence in the project.--TcDohl 06:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * If you can add some references and footnotes, I'll nominate it as a good article. Palm_Dogg 06:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * References and footnotes? There's barely any research in this article, if any. It's all just lifted straight out of the manga and anime. And all my other information is from Anime News Network. --TcDohl 07:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * References can be from anywhere. If you ever want this to be FA, you're going to have to show people where you got your info.  If you want some examples of how to do this, check out Starship Troopers, which is a page I'm working on. Palm_Dogg 16:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's all fine and dandy, but some of the places you marked are straight out of the ending credits. Man, it sucks being the only one here that's read the manga. --TcDohl 21:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just saying if you want FA status you're going to need references, even if they're from Bandai or the Anime News Network. The lists are also going to have to be merged into prose, but that can be done later. Palm_Dogg 21:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Robbie?
Lavie's name is given as Arvind "Robbie" Lavie, but I can't ever remember seeing him called that in the official translation (and he's not in the manga). Is there a cite for this? piman 07:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It's in the anime. That's what the characters called him in the Japanese (through no fault of their own) and the English dub (intentionally). --TcDohl 12:19, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

GA
Looks good to be. Keep improving it and this could have a shot at being featured. savidan(talk) (e@) 10:04, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yay, go team. We should now put this on the anime and manga wikiproject page as an example article. - 12:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hooray! Well, I think we still need to edit this some more along the guidelines set by the Peer Review. Now I'd like to shoot for Featured Article, like its Italian cousin. --TcDohl 16:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Good work all around. And now, onward to FA status! -Loren 18:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Consider splitting in two
You could consider splitting the article in two. One for the Anime amd one for the Manga. I tried reading the manga, several times, but found that it was too deep into Japanese philosophy and current Japanese concerns with manliness and social skills to keep me awake. Then I discovered the anime and bought the first DVD, and then all the DVDs available (I am eagerly waiting for volume 6, the last, to be available in Canada) and found a series which, to my eyes, had very little to do with the manga. The tone is completely different. The level of realism is something else. The characters actually seem real in the anime while they looked symbolic in the manga. Because of all this I find I have a great difficulty in adding things to the Planetes article, with long term improvement in mind. It seems to cover both the Anime and the manga but sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. --AlainV 18:03, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be split in two. I think your concerns are quite valid, but I think it's nothing you can't already add to the current article. But if you really want to add to the article, keep it one step at a time, and keep a goal in mind. --TcDohl 18:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * That's the problem. It's impossible to have any goal given the radical differences between the anime and manga.  That's why I don't see how I can possibly add or improve anything past the little I just put in, with the exception of correcting new typos (if any pop up) or a fact here and there when other sections are added, eventually, by other editors.  --AlainV 18:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe what we can do is for you to just add whatever you want to the manga section (which I think is seriously lacking in the first place). I'll serve as the editor of whatever comes in (and I'm getting pretty tired adding new stuff to this article). So just try, and let's see what happens. So now, I guess your task is to add whatever you can add to the manga section, and let me take care of the rest. --TcDohl 19:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You read what I wrote up there too fast. It's the other way around.  I'm not interested at all in the manga, because, from my point of view, it's mired in Japanese philosophical mumbo-jumbo and it just disregards the technological questions which form the basis of science fiction.  This is not surprising given the attitude Makoto Yukimura has towards technology.  Just read the article Loren has linked to below. You'll see that Yukimura deliberately avoided getting information on how things actually work in space, because he did not want facts, reality to influence him, his "artistic vision".  This is going away from science fiction and into fantasy.  When they did the anime they took exactly the opposite approach and put a very solid scientific and technological basis to everything.  Just look at the care they put into cutting off the sound when we have exterior shots in space, getting zero gravity scenes perfectly (within the boundaries of the limited animation of the anime TV series genre of course) and linking elements of plot to the nature of exploration and exploitation.  The anime is classic science fiction in the Clarke-Asimov-Heinlein tradition while the manga is a fairy tale set in space.  --AlainV 23:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Now that we're splitting the article again, we have room to put stuff in the pretty much barren Anime section. So, I guess that's your opportunity. --TcDohl 18:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I sincerely disagree with the suggestion that the Anime and the Manga are significantly different in their themes and execution. The final message that the anime leaves the viewer with (seriously, they spend like... 20 minutes on this in the last episode) is one of the importance of the connection between humans no matter what the situation.  It's definitley true that the Anime explores the theme of exploitation of the underclass more, but I feel that suggesting that the manga is a fairy tale set in space while the anime is more classical is preposterous.  I'll grant you that my memory is a little rusty as I haven't read the manga since last summer, but I'm reasonably sure of the basic similarity. --DannoHung 07:26, 19 Aprial 2006 (UTC)
 * I just went to a store to check on all the volumes and what I saw again in that manga was tons of late 20th century tech for a story that's supposed to take place a hundred years later. The anime takes technology into account instead of using it as a general effect or backdrop. In the two cases it,s Art but different types of Art. Just read the interview with Yukimura Loren linked to below.  But regardless of the nature of the sotires we,re talking here of two different media: Print on paper versus a TV show. --AlainV 03:07, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Without my copies of the manga on hand, I'll have to assent to your account in the interim. If the point is simply to discuss them as different works in different mediums, I'll raise no argument with idea of separating the article. I'm sorry I misunderstood your point.--DannoHung 05:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You didn't misunderstand his point. On the other hand, you're wrong that the themes were similar except at the broadest level of tangentially involving space, love, and G-d. It's not preposterous that the manga was an unserious fairy tale in space; that's exactly what it was. — Llywelyn II   02:19, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Makoto Yukimura interview
One of the issues brought up in the peer review was the lack of information on the development process. I've found an old interview we can try to incorporate into the article: NASDA (now JAXA) interview with Makoto Yukimura (2002). -Loren 18:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Splitting of characters section
Seeing as this article is a borderline size-warning at 30kB, I believe we need to create Characters of Planetes to take some of the load off of this article.

I figure we keep the first four characters in the main article and then port everyone else to the characters article. The article feels unbalanced with such an exhaustive characters section and other, practically empty ones ("Anime" for example). Any other suggestions? - 17:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the main characters should have their own articles, leaving just a basic summary on the main Planetes page. -Loren 17:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking about that. Well, I split the other articles, so someone else do the characters article? Also, I think we have enough satellite articles to warrant a category. --TcDohl 18:35, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Created Category:Planetes -Loren 19:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It would have made more sense (and it's not too late to change this) to split between the manga and the anime. With the split like this it makes things confusing for persons who do not already know both and it creates impossible situations for characters and plot. Take a look at high quality articles like the one on Starship Troopers the novel, and all the other media titles that came from it like Starship Troopers (film) or the animated 3D TV series Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles.  Like the Planetes manga and anime they share character elements and many plot elements in common but they are, like the planetes anime and manga again, different media creations. When you look at things closely you notice that while the characters might have the same names in book or film they have deep differences because of the radical differences between the media. So making a common characters article for anime and manga does not make any sense. --AlainV 03:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Having gone over some of the previous discussion on this topic I am inclined to agree, at least for the main articles. The articles on the characters themselves can remain the same while noting any personality changes between the manga and the anime. -Loren 04:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I thoroughly disagree, and I'll say it as plainly as I can. I believe that two separate articles would have a significantly lower chance of obtaining Featured Article status. Splitting the article would make the scope of the article narrower, and liable to fancruft. --TcDohl 21:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you have any examples of this? I gave the example of how it's supposed to work, with the printed work Starship Troopers and the other media that were derived from it. Note that the Starship troopers article was tagged as a good article and as a featured article.  This is not done to fancruft.  Right now by the way the planetes article as just been split again, and some could say that it has now become several pieces of fancruft because the split elements can only be understood by devoted fans and updated by devoted fans.  The idea of an encyclopedia artcile is that information is given at several levels and that readers who do not know anything will be immediately informed, progressively.  --AlainV 02:59, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Slight problem with article (structure?)
Don't know how to address this, honestly.

The article is really good, but it's not something I can show to anyone I try to convince to watch / read the series. The spoilers and intermingled mentions further in the series make it very hard to show to anyone who isn't already familiar with the series and hasn't seen at least a good chunk of it. For a fresh-comer, many of the plot points get shown in advance here...

It's rather difficult problem to tackle, though.

Anyone else feel that this might be a problem? --TLein 19:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Response to assessment request
Re: Re-assessment request from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Assess. I don't think this article is A-Class yet. It is not as comprehensive as demanded by A-Class, but it's a good article

Here's a couple of points from me, and then an auto-review:
 * The article needs a longer lead section with more information from the article.
 * Even if the reviews were positive, it should be possible to mention some of the "negative" points brought up by reviewers, even if they like the show as a whole. See RahXephon for example.
 * Some info about reception in Japan is also needed.
 * Some sections only have a "main article" link in them. Either make that a see also and remove the section heading, or, if you want to keep the subsection heading, write a summary that can go with it.

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, GunnarRene 22:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}[]) in headings.
 * Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.
 * Manual comment: Those that can't be incorporated into the article, could be moved to one of the episode articles.
 * Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Guide to layout.
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
 * “In the year [of] 2075”
 * Avoid misplaced formality: “in order to/for” (-> to/for), “thereupon”, “notwithstanding”, etc.
 * Avoid using contractions like: wasn't.
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space inbetween. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.

Great work
Dear PlanetES team,

Feel free to delete this, but I just wanted to express my heart-felt congratulations on what has to be one of the best anime articles I have read.

The accuracy of the information and ease of reading is, simply put, outstanding. The organisation and visual presentation is unchallenged, a head above the rest.

What a welcomed sight it has been and a genuine pleasure to read. I would love to see more of this teams work. If there was an award for best wikipedia article today this would get my vote. Thank you.

A grateful anime fan, Stimz.
 * Thanks. I took over this article a long time ago, and I'm proud to get it to the state that it is now. Anyway, if you want to contribute more along the guidelines of its peer review and its assessment, be my guest. --TcDohl 22:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation?
How is "plantes" supposed to be pronounced?
 * Plan eh tace Doceirias 18:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Is that "tace" as in rhymes with "trace" or more like "days" ("tayes")? Thanks!! Argel1200 20:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Trace. Doceirias 21:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not even close. Σούπερμαν (talk) 20:13, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * They're not speaking modern Greek. They're reading sth transcribed from ancient Greek into English. "Christ" and "philosophy" (eg) also sound very different in English. — Llywelyn II   05:47, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * (a) You missed an e in there. Plantes is Latin for "you plant" or "you're planting" and would be read something like plant-tayz by an English speaker.

 * (b) For the manga and anime, the actual name is Japanese プラネテス which is romanized as "Pu-ra-ne-te-su" but actually pronounced /pɯ̟ɾa̠ne̞te̞sɨ/ or /pɾa̠ne̞te̞s/. You can paste the katakana into Google translate and hit the 'read' icon below to hear it or check out the official trailer. It probably sounds something like /p(ə)rɑːnɛtɛs/, "purr-an-eh-tess" or "pran-eh-tess" but with a sound somewhere between an R and an L for that /ɾ/.

 * (c) Soúperman (who should really be Υπεράνθρωπος) presumably wants the Greek pronunciation of πλάνητες, which would be /planɛː.tes/ (ancient Athens), /planetɛs/ (anc. Alexandria), or /planites/ (Koine, Byzantine, & modern), which would be "plah-neh-tays" and "plah-nay-tess".

 * (d) In English, Planetes should be /plænəteɪz/ or /plænəteɪs/, "plan-nuh-tayz" or "plan-nuh-tays" or—for Brits who lean hard into old school distinctions between eta and epsilon—/plænətɛs/ "plan-nuh-tess". There are people like this guy on YouTube who just read it as "planets" and this Brit who misunderstands it as "planetess" and this moronic slacker who thinks it's "planetezz" and the worst anime ever made, though, so you're in good company just having no idea and saying what feels right. — Llywelyn II   05:47, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Links
Here are a few sources I intend to use in the article:
 * DVD 1 review at anime jump
 * imdb entry (you never know)
 * Anime News Service: Planetes and astronomical magazine
 * Anime News Network, complete cast + 8 articles & DVD reviews
 * dozen of articles on Animefringe, including revews of manga and anime
 * Anime on DVD, dozens of reviews
 * T.H.E.M. review
 * very short review by SciFi.com
 * TV Tropes review
 * 6 dvd review at dvd.net
 * Anime and manga reviews (French)

Manga Reviews: Dozens of tohers are available at the moment. My guess is that we should have enough by now to justify anything we feel like putting in the article. What we need to make it through FAC is more print sources. Thay just love print sources, they can't get enough of it. Magazines are good, scholarly essays and books are better (althoufht after only 3 years I wonder if it will already be in any anthology.) Enjoy!--SidiLemine 16:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Vol1 & Vol2 of the manga reviews from AnimeBoredom.
 * review of vol1 of the manga at BlogCritics
 * I'd like to see more Japanese sources and reviews. I have had much trouble finding them, and hopefully others would be luckier in the search. --TcDohl 21:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I cannot read Japanese yet, but I will try to find Japanese reviews and put up the adresses.--SidiLemine 12:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

 * OK, so as I said, I can't read Japanese, so I can't know what's a reliable source, or even if it has any interesting material. But if you do, maybe you can try this:
 * Manga review @ bakker]
 * Review of the guidebook @ bkl
 * full review of anime at tsundoku.org
 * very short first volume of manga review
 * Please let me know if there's any good in that, or what you're looking for exactly. --SidiLemine 15:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * More sources:
 * UK Anime Network
 * Japan's Favorite TV Anime
 * Mobile Police Patlabor
 * --Gabriel Yuji (talk) 19:53, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

"the anime introduces political elements to the story" ?
I have a problem with this line, specifically with "introduces". Yes the anime focuses more on the terrorist activities than the manga, but almost starting a war in space and the political games in the us army isn't political enough? I'll go ahead and change it to "the anime further expands the political elements of the story" and if someone wants to change it back, I expect to read why here. AcidArrow 16:52, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it isn't. The manga included a few plot points to make the Kessler Syndrome happen by the end but there were no politics before that. The various activists and terrorists until that point were entirely funded by various zaibatsu groups attacking each other for corporate reasons. The manga's approach to politics was so half-assed that the alt superpower the US was defending itself from was the "Federation Republic". — Llywelyn II   05:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Additional image?
Would it be excessive, too unillustrative or too silly to add my favorite demonstration of the "hard scifi" - status of the show: the scene with a volley of laser fire that causes nothing more but the ends of the lasers to flash red, because lasers are completely invisible? :P --Kizor 14:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No. — Llywelyn II   05:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Good article reassessment
This article was nominated for good article reassessment to determine whether or not it met the good article criteria and so can be listed as a good article. Please see the archived discussion for further information.

 * The article has been delisted per Good article reassessment/Planetes/1.  bibliomaniac 1  5  23:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Space Opera? Something Else?
Could this page be considered for space opera? What about other classifications? Just wondering. -- Sharkface T /C 01:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I put down in the genre section that it was a slice of life manga/anime. -- Sharkface T /C 01:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really space opera, no. It's too close to being mundane science fiction for that. —Quasirandom (talk) 04:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Would it be considered slice of life? The manga might qualify for that. -- Sharkface T /C 00:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I consider it slice-of-life, but I'd want a review or other reliable source to back me up before claiming it was, as that's my interpretation. Genres that are about style and manner are tricker to apply than those that are strictly about trope: "It's got a rocket ship? So clearly science fiction it's not original research." "It's a satire? That's just your opinion." —Quasirandom (talk) 01:02, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

 * It has slice-of-life elements (more so in the anime) but that describes the shows style more than it does the genre. It is a hard sci-fi show that happens to spend a bit more time on the lives of the characters than most; worth mentioning in a section on style, but not fundamental enough to the show's nature to add to the genre field. I admit the line is sort of fuzzy. I mostly took it out because it isn't such a prominent part of the manga. Doceirias (talk) 01:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh. And THAT is a classic example of why we'd need reliable sources: Doceirias and disagreeing over which form has more slice-of-life elements. It's an interpretation, which is original research. —Quasirandom (talk) 02:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sadly, there are no reliable sources for genre (ANN genres are added by readers, and frequently insane.) We have to default to consensus, which often means we go with the simplest version. Doceirias (talk) 04:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless, of course, a genre is identified by one or more reviews. —Quasirandom (talk) 05:05, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The anime series is a classic group of Hard science fiction tales because of its close attention to Science and technology, while the manga is closer to the ancient style of scientific romance because it places mystical considerations before scientific realities, even though it does not dismiss them completely. The problem here is that manga and anime reviewers (the usual reliable sources for manga and anime summaries) are not SF readers and don't know much about variations in this literary genre.--AlainV (talk) 05:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's straight-up slice-of-life hard science fiction. No space opera here (see Arcadia of My Youth for some space opera). ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:13, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Alain, I am simultaneously an SF reader (just finished re-reading The World Treasury of Science Fiction), a manga reader, and an avid anime watcher. That being said, I still have trouble with the variations in the genres. As for this page... can we come to a consensus that this anime/manga is slice of life? -- Sharkface T /C 07:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with changing it to Hard sci fi or mundane sci fi (no comprehension of the terms myself) but I tend to feel like Slice of Life is more a condiment than a main ingredient here. Feel free to vote me down, I'm not particularly attached to the idea. Doceirias (talk) 19:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't know about the manga ( I gave up after 3 volumes, being disappointed about the lack of hard science fiction in it) but I know that the anime (which I bought and watched several times) is hard science fiction. I went to look at the "slice of life" article and it states that a work under that category contains no sciencwe fiction.  It would seem then that hard science fiction and slice of life are incompatible categories.  --AlainV (talk) 21:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, well, I've got issues with that article's description; note that it's been tagged for sources to substantiate the definitions offered for a while. (So far my attempts to get the Literature project to take on cleaning it up haven't gotten anywhere.) All the reliable sources agree that Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou is a slice-of-life story, despite being postapocalyptic science fiction. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, the sci-fi elements are the spice, and the book is primarily concerned with the daily lives of the characters. But then, I thought the Planetes manga was far more realistic than the anime, which was filled with bullshit about ninja. Doceirias (talk) 23:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The ninjas were only in two episodes. My proposals:
 * We put the genre as hard science fiction.
 * The debate on whether or not this series is slice of life is separated into two topics: manga and anime. The manga is vastly different than the anime, dealing with more philosophical and existential stuff while the anime is more science oriented. It's entirely possible that one of them is slice of life while the other isn't.
 * More sources on the hard science fiction elements of the story should be added.
 * Input is always welcome. -- Sharkface T /C 01:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Original Research & Citations Needed
This article could use a little clean-up with the number of unsourced statements made in the summary and analysis portions of the article. While the assertions made are basically true, right now they classify as original resreach. Perhaps there is a critical literary analysis of the manga that we could cite? And I'll do my part to add a bit more information about the manga itself, but please feel free to add more bits yourself. Good article, overall! 3Juno3 (talk) 00:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

"Use Of Non-free Image" Tag
What is the point of this tag? If the images in this article are improperly used, surely the right thing would be to delete them entirely rather than just dropping in this tag and walking away? If we're going to leave the images in (and I think we should, on the "fair-use" basis since they are small, low-res and used only to illustrate the article), why not delete the tag? Keeping both images and tag seems illogical.RB1956 (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The tag is there because there are too many fair-use images in the article. At most, there should be the cover image in the infobox (a cover of the manga is preferable, as it is the original work), and a group shot of the characters (a user-made compilation image is not acceptable) - see also WP:NFCC. I placed the tag instead of simply removing the images because I'm not very familiar with the series. 「ダイノ ガイ 千 ？！」(Dinoguy1000) 17:53, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how familiarity with the series is relevant to whether this article breaches Wikipedia's guidelines. You say only a cover image and group shot are acceptable under Wikipedia policy. Clearly most of the images in the Planetes article breach that policy, and no familiarity with the is required to see that. I know it's more work, but why not just fix the problem? RB1956 (talk) 21:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not. However, rather than simply stripping the images with no explanation or replacement, I decided to let someone more familiar with the series review them and see if they could find a suitable replacement image (e.g. a group character shot). 「ダイノ ガイ 千 ？！」(Dinoguy1000) 17:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I took down the pictures of the individual characters as I felt that it wasn't critical to the article itself. I would consider taking down the image showing the realism of the series because I'm not sure that it is entirely necessary. But I'm on the fence about that one. -Vcelloho (talk) 01:50, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * With further consideration I do not consider the second image to be necessary. I'm familiar with the series and granted the length of the article I do not feel that it warrants the use of two copyrighted images. -Vcelloho (talk) 01:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Planetes


text:
Ohrid

Ohrid (Охрид ) is a city in North Macedonia and is the seat of the Ohrid Municipality. It is the largest city on Lake Ohrid and the eighth-largest city in the country, with the municipality recording a population of over 42,000 inhabitants as of 2002. Ohrid is known for once having 365 churches, one for each day of the year, and has been referred to as the "Jerusalem of the Balkans". The city is rich in picturesque houses and monuments, and tourism is predominant. It is located southwest of Skopje, west of Resen and Bitola. In 1979 and in 1980, respectively, Ohrid and Lake Ohrid were accepted as Cultural and Natural World Heritage Sites by UNESCO. Ohrid is one of only 28 sites that are part of UNESCO's World Heritage that are Cultural as well as Natural sites.

Name
In antiquity the city was known under the ancient Greek name of Λυχνίς (Lychnis) and Λυχνιδός (Lychnidos) and the Latin Lychnidus, probably meaning "city of light", literally "a precious stone that emits light", from λύχνος (lychnos), "lamp, portable light". Polybius, writing in the second century BC, refers to the town as Λυχνίδιον - Lichnidion.

The evolution of the ancient toponym Lychnidus into Oh(ë)r(id) required a long-standing period of Tosk Albanian–Eastern South Slavic bilingualism, or at least contact, resulting from the Tosk Albanian rhotacism -n- into -r- and Eastern South Slavic l-vocalization ly- into o-.

It became capital of the First Bulgarian Empire in the early medieval period, and was often referred to by Byzantine writers as Achrida (Ἄχριδα, Ὄχριδα, or Ἄχρις). By 879 AD, the town was no longer called Lychnidos but was referred to as Ohrid.

In Macedonian and the other South Slavic languages, the name of the city is Ohrid (Охрид). In Albanian, the city is known as Ohër or Ohri and in modern Greek Ochrida (Οχρίδα, Ωχρίδα) and Achrida (Αχρίδα). The name of the city in Aromanian is Ohãrda.

Antiquity

The earliest inhabitants of the widest Lake Ohrid region were the Illyrian tribes of Enchele and Dassaretii. According to a tradition the town was founded by Cadmus, the Phoenician king of Thebes, who fled to Enchele after being banished from Boeotia. In addition to Ohrid, called Lychnidos (Λυχνιδός) in classical antiquity, he is said to have founded Budva in Montenegro. Lychnidos was the capital city of the Illyrian Dassaretii.

According to recent excavations, this was a town as early as of the era of king Philip II of Macedon. They conclude that Samuil's Fortress was built on the site of an earlier fortification, dated to the 4th century BC. In 210 BCE, Philip V of Macedon raided a number of southern Illyrian communities. He maintained a garrison at Lychnidos but lost control of the settlement in 208 BCE, when its commander joined local leader Aeropus and invited the Dardani in the region.

During the Roman conquests, towards the end of 3rd and the beginning of 2nd century BC, Lychnidus is mentioned as a town near or within Dassaretia. In Roman times, it was located along the Via Egnatia, which connected the Adriatic port Dyrrachion (present-day Durrës) with Byzantium. Archaeological excavations (e.g., the Polyconch Basilica from the 5th century) prove an early adoption of Christianity in the area. Bishops from Lychnidos participated in multiple ecumenical councils.

Middle Ages
The South Slavs began to arrive in the area during the 6th century AD. By the early 7th century, it was colonized by a Slavic tribe known as the Berziti. Bulgaria conquered the city around 840.

The name Ohrid first appeared in 879. The Ohrid Literary School, established in 886 by Clement of Ohrid, became one of the two major cultural centres of the First Bulgarian Empire. Between 990 and 1015, Ohrid was the empire's capital and stronghold.

From 990 to 1018, Ohrid was also the seat of the Bulgarian Patriarchate. After the Byzantine reconquest of the city in 1018 by Basil II, the Bulgarian Patriarchate was downgraded to an Archbishopric of Ohrid, and placed under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

The higher clergy after 1018 was almost invariably Greek, including during the period of Ottoman domination, until the abolition of the archbishopric in 1767. At the beginning of the 16th century, the archbishopric reached its peak, subordinating the Sofia, Vidin, Vlach and Moldavian eparchies, part of the former medieval Serbian Patriarchate of Peć, (including Patriarchal Monastery of Peć itself), and even the Orthodox districts of Italy (Apulia, Calabria and Sicily), Venice and Dalmatia.

As an episcopal city, Ohrid was a cultural center of great importance for the Balkans. Almost all surviving churches were built by the Byzantines and by the Bulgarians, with the rest dating back to the short time of Serbian rule during the late Middle Ages.

Bohemond, leading a Norman army from southern Italy, took the city in 1083. The Byzantines regained it in 1085. In the 13th and 14th century, the city changed hands between the Despotate of Epirus, the Bulgarian, Byzantine and Serbian Empires, and Albanian rulers. In the mid-13th century, Ohrid was one of the cities ruled by Pal Gropa, a member of the Albanian noble Gropa family. In a text by Emperor John VI Kantakouzenos, there is mention of nomadic Albanians present in the vicinity of Ohrid at around 1328. The presence of the Turkish community dates from their settlement in Ohrid during 1451–81.

In 1334, the city was captured by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan and incorporated in the Serbian Empire. After Dusan's death, the city came under the control of Andrea Gropa. After his death, Prince Marko incorporated it in the Kingdom of Prilep.

In the early 1370s, Marko lost Ohrid to Pal II Gropa, another member of the Gropa family, and unsuccessfully tried to recapture it in 1375 with Ottoman assistance. In 1395, the Ottomans under Bayezid I captured the city, which became the seat of the newly established Sanjak of Ohrid. Some time after Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg had liberated Krujë to begin his rebellion, his troops—in coordination with Gjergj Arianiti and Zahari Gropa (of the local Albanian Gropa noble family)—liberated Ohrid and the castle of Svetigrad.

From 14–15 September 1464, 12,000 Albanian troops of the League of Lezhë and 1,000 of the Republic of Venice defeated a 14,000-man Ottoman force near the city in the Battle of Ohrid. When Mehmed II returned from Albania after his actions against Skanderbeg in 1466, he dethroned Dorotheos, the Archbishop of Ohrid, and expatriated him—together with his clerks and boyars and considerable number of citizens of Ohrid—to Istanbul, probably because of their anti-Ottoman activities during Skanderbeg's rebellion amid which many citizens of Ohrid, including Dorotheos and his clergy, supported Skanderbeg and his fight.

Ottoman period
During the 16th century, Ohrid was located in the Sanjak of Ohrid. In the years 1529-1536, Sanjak of Ohrid had 33,271 households (32,648 Christians and 623 Muslims), with 1331 widows and 3392 unmarried singles. There were 859 settlements and 10 cities, with an average of 28.7 houses per settlement. Ohrid itself had 337 Christian families, 44 unmarried singles, 12 widows and 93 Muslim families. In 1583, the Sanjak of Ohrid was made up of several Kazas, including the Kaza of Ohrid, which were in turn made of Nahiyes; the Ottoman Defter recorded, within the Nahiya of Ohrid, 2,920 Christian homes, 627 unmarried singles and 465 Muslim families within a total of 107 settlements. In 1889, according to a French research, the city had 2.500-3.000 houses and approximately 12.000 individuals, of which 2/3 were Bulgarians and Vlachs and the rest 1/3 were Albanophone Muslims with 20-25 Slavophone Greek families. The Christian population declined during the first centuries of Ottoman rule. In 1664, there were only 142 Christian households. The situation changed in the 18th century when Ohrid emerged as an important trade center on a major trade route. At the end of this century it had around five thousand inhabitants. Towards the end of the 18th century and in the early part of the 19th century, Ohrid region, like other parts of European Turkey, was a hotbed of unrest. In the 19th century the region of Ohrid became part of the Pashalik of Scutari, ruled by the Bushati family.

After the Christian population of the bishopric of Ohrid voted on a plebiscite in 1874 overwhelmingly in favour of joining the Bulgarian Exarchate (97%), the Exarchate became in control of the area. In 1889, Gustav Weigand discovered in Ohrid the important Codex Dimonie, a collection of Aromanian-language religious texts. In statistics gathered by Vasil Kanchov in 1900, the city of Ohrid was inhabited by 8000 Bulgarians, 5000 Turks, 500 Muslim Albanians, 300 Christian Albanians, 460 Vlachs and 600 Romani. The Bulgarian researcher Vasil Kanchov wrote in 1900 that many Albanians declared themselves as Turks. Ohrid, the population that declared itself Turkish "was of Albanian blood", but it "had been Turkified after the Ottoman invasion, including Skanderbeg", referring to Islamization.

The majority of the Christian inhabitants of the city were under the supremacy of the Bulgarian Exarchate. According to " La Macédoine et sa Population Chrétienne ", statistics of the secretary of the exarchate Dimitar Mishev on the Christian population in Macedonia, in 1905 the Christian population of Ohrid consisted of 7,768 Exarchist Bulgarians, 168 Greek Patriarchal Bulgarians, 56 Serboman Patriarchal Bulgarians, 660 Vlachs and 6 Albanians. In the city there is 1 secondary and 5 primary Bulgarian schools and 1 primary Greek, Serbian and Wallachian school each.

Modern Albanian study claims that in 1903 the Cartographic Society of Sofia registered incorrectly 8,893 households of Albanian or Vlach ethnicity in the Kaza of Ohrid. There were supposedly 2,610 households registered in Ohrid, but after further analysis of the documents by Dervishi et al., it was discovered that the city actually had 3,700 households; there were 2,100 Albanian Muslim households, 150 Albanian Christian households, 900 Bulgarian households, 300 Vlach households, 210 Serb households and 39 Greek households. The Cartographic Society of Sofia also incorrectly registered many villages - that were in fact inhabited entirely or mostly by Albanians (both Christians and Muslims) - as Bulgarian. 14 villages were registered as Albanian with 991 households, but further investigation by Dervishi et al. revealed that the number was actually 2,400. Therefore, with those corrections, the Kaza of Ohrid had 5,336 Albanian households, 4,347 Slavic households, 1,549 mixed household and 125 Vlach households that were mainly spread across two villages. By the end of Ottoman rule, the Kaza of Ohrid itself numbered to 38,000 Albanian inhabitants and 36,500 non-Albanian (Bulgarian, Serbs, Vlachs and Orthodox Albanians who recognised the exarch and were therefore classed as Bulgarians) inhabitants as indicated by statistics gathered from the Ottoman authorities.

Modern

Before 1912, Ohrid was a township center bounded to Monastir sanjak in Manastir Vilayet (present-day Bitola). The city remained under Ottoman rule until 29 November 1912, when the Serbian army took control of the city during the Balkan Wars and later made it the capital of Ohrid district. In Ohrid, Serbian forces killed 150 Bulgarians and 500 people consisting of Albanians and Turks. In September 1913 local Albanian and pro-Bulgarian Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization leaders rebelled against the Kingdom of Serbia. It was occupied by Kingdom of Bulgaria between 1915 and 1918 during World War I.

Bulgarian ethnographer Yordan Ivanov, professor at the University of Sofia, wrote in 1915 that Albanians, since they did not have their own alphabet, lacked a consolidated national consciousness and were being influenced by foreign propaganda, declared themselves as Turks, Greeks and Bulgarians, depending on which religion they belonged to. Albanians in Ohrid were losing their mother tongue.

During Kingdom of Yugoslavia Ohrid continued to be as an independent district (Охридског округа) (1918-1922), then it became a part of Bitola Oblast (1920-1929), and then from 1929 to 1941, Ohrid was part of the Vardar Banovina. It was occupied again by Bulgaria between 1941 and 1944 during World War II. Since the days of SFR Yugoslavia Ohrid has been the municipal seat of Municipality of Ohrid (Општина Охрид). Since 1991 the town was part of the Republic of Macedonia (now North Macedonia).

On 20 November 1993, Avioimpex Flight 110 crashed near Ohrid, killing all 116 people on board. It is the deadliest aviation disaster to occur in North Macedonia.

Geography and climate
Ohrid is located in the south-western part of North Macedonia, on the shore of Lake Ohrid, at an elevation of 695 meters above sea level.

Ohrid has a warm-summer mediterranean climate (Köppen climate classification: Csb), bordering on an oceanic climate (Köppen climate classification: Cfb) moderated by its elevation, as the mean temperature of the warmest month is just above 22 °C and every summer month receives less than 40 mm of rainfall. The coldest month is January with the average temperature 2.5 °C or in a range between 6.2 °C and -1.5 °C. The warmest month is August with average range of 27.7 °C-14.2 °C. The rainiest month is November, which sees on average 90.5 mm of rain. The summer months of June, July and August receive the least amount of rain, around 30 mm. The absolute minimum temperature is -17.8 °C and the maximum 38.5 °C.

Demographics
At the 2021 census, Ohrid had 38,818 residents with the following ethnic makeup:
 * Macedonians, 28,920 (74.5%)
 * Persons for whom data are taken from administrative sources, 3,421 (8.8%)
 * others, 2,728 (7.0%)
 * Albanians, 1,924 (5.0%)
 * Turks, 1,825 (4.7%)

As of the 2002 census, the city of Ohrid has 42,033 inhabitants and the ethnic composition was the following:

 * Macedonians, 33,791 (80.4%)
 * Albanians, 2,959 (7.0%)
 * Turks, 2,256 (5.4%)
 * others, 3,027 (7.2%)

The mother tongues of the city's residents include the following:
 * Macedonian, 34,910 (83.1%)
 * Albanian, 3,957 (9.4%)
 * Turkish, 2,226 (5.3%)
 * others, 1,017 (2.4%)

The religious composition of the city was the following:
 * Orthodox Christians, 33,987 (80.9%)
 * Muslims, 7,599 (18.1%)
 * others, 447 (1.1%)

The oldest inhabitants of Ohrid are a few families that reside in the Varoš neighbourhood. Other Macedonians have settled in Ohrid and originate from the villages of the Kosel, Struga, Drimkol, Debarca, Malesija and Kičevo regions and other areas from southern Macedonia. Albanians in Ohrid originate from Albanian villages located on the western and southern areas of Lake Ohrid. There is a sizeable amount of Turkified Albanians in Ohrid who originate from the cities of Elbasan, Durrës and Ulcinj. The local Romani population in Ohrid originates from Podgradec and speaks the southern Tosk Albanian dialect.

The earliest presence of the Aromanian population in Ohrid dates to 1778 arriving from Moscopole, others from Kavajë (late 18th century), from the Myzeqe region, Elbasan, Llëngë and Mokër region (mid. 19th century) and also from Gorna Belica and Malovišta (late 19th century). A large part of Ohrid's Aromanian population has emigrated to Trieste, Odessa and Bucharest. Orthodox Albanians are also present and settled in Ohrid during the second half of the 19th century and originate from Pogradec, Lin, Çërravë and Peshkëpi.

All Turks from the village of Peštani after selling properties and land moved to Ohrid by 1920 and today those few families are known as Peştanlı. In 1949, additional families from Aegean Macedonia settled in Ohrid.

In Yugoslav censuses, Albanophone Ohrid Romani mainly declared as Albanians. As tensions between Albanians and the state increased over numbers regarding community size and sociopolitical rights, Romani identity became politicized and contested from the 1990s onward. Ohrid Albanophone Romani refused identification as Albanians seeing it as a result of Albanisation (or to be called Gypsies) and with encouragement from Macedonian circles now refers to itself as Egyptians whose ancestors migrated from Egypt many centuries ago. The Albanian language is considered by Ohrid Albanophone Romani as only an idiom of the home and not a mother tongue. Turkish speaking Romani reside in Ohrid that during the Yugoslav period self declared themselves mainly as Turks, while within independent Macedonia they identify as Egyptians. In the latter decades of the 20th century, some Albanian speaking Muslim Romani from the villages of Krani and Nakolec have migrated to Ohrid.

Cultural Heritage sites

Ohrid Municipality is home to over 100 sites declared as Cultural Heritage by the Ministry of Culture, of which most lie within the city of Ohrid.

 * Archaeological sites
 * Ancient Theatre of Ohrid from Hellenistic and Roman time
 * Vidobišta Roman-era tombs
 * Kozluk, Roman-era settlement
 * Mančevci site with early Christian basilica
 * Hermeleja, Roman-era settlement
 * Saint Erasmus
 * Karagjulevci tombs from Ancient Macedonian era
 * Samuel's Fortress and remaining portions of the city walls
 * Plaošnik
 * Studenčišta basilica
 * Saint 40 Holy Martyrs early Christian basilica

There is a legend supported by observations by the 17th century Ottoman traveler Evliya Çelebi that there were 365 chapels within the town boundaries, one for every day of the year. Today this number is significantly smaller.
 * Christian sites
 * Grave of Grigor Prličev
 * Church of Saints Clement and Panteleimon
 * Church of the Holy Mother of God Čelnica
 * Little Church of Saint Vrači (Saints Kuzman and Damjan)
 * Church of Saint Demetrius
 * Church of the Holy Mother of God - Bolnička
 * Church of Saint Nicholas - Bolnički
 * Church of the Holy Mother of God - Perivleptos
 * Little Church of Saint Clement
 * Church of Saint John the Baptist - Kaneo
 * Church of Saint Sophia
 * Church of Saints Constantine and Elena
 * Church of the Holy Mother of God Kamensko
 * Church of Saint Nicholas - Gerakomija
 * Church of Saint Nicholas - Arbanaški
 * Church of Saint Nicholas the Wonderworker
 * Church of Saint Vrači (Saints Kuzman and Damjan), with frescos from the 14th century. A 14th-century icon from the church is depicted on the obverse of the 1000 denars banknote, issued in 1996 and 2003.
 * Church of Saint George
 * Church of Saint Nicholas

Besides being a holy center of the region, it is also the source of knowledge and pan-Slavic literacy. The restored Monastery at Plaošnik was actually one of the oldest Universities in the western world, dating before the 10th century. Several of Ohrid's best-known churches and monasteries, such as the Monastery of Saint Naum lie in its surrounding villages.

 * Islamic sites
 * Voska Hamam
 * Eski Hamam
 * Zejnel Abedin Pasha Tekke
 * Sinan Çelebi Türbe
 * Ali Pasha Mosque
 * Hajdar Pasha Mosque
 * Hadži Durgut Mosque
 * Hadži Hamza Mosque

 * National Liberation War sites
 * Memorial mound on Slavej Planina
 * Common grave of fallen National Liberation War soldiers
 * Memorial plaque of fallen professors and students of the Ohrid Gymnasium in the National Liberation War

Dozens of individual homes and commercial buildings in Ohrid are listed as Cultural Heritage sites. Some of these, such as the Robevi family house and the Prličev family home, the Uzunov family home, function as museums today. Also included are the Saint Clement of Ohrid Gymnasium, the Ohrid Clock Tower, and the Icon Gallery.
 * Old town architecture

Transportation

There is a nearby international airport, Ohrid Airport (now known as "St. Paul the Apostle Airport").

Until 1966, Ohrid was linked to Skopje by the Ohrid line, a 167 km long narrow-gauge railway.

Sports
GFK Ohrid Lihnidos is a football team playing at the SRC Biljanini Izvori stadium in the city. As of the 2021–22 season they play in the second tier of the Macedonian Football League system.

FK Voska Sport is also a football team in Ohrid that competes in the Macedonian First League as of the 2023-24 season.

RK Ohrid is a handball team playing at Biljanini Izvori Sports Hall arena, with a capacity of 3,500. As of the 2016–17 season they play in the Macedonian Handball Super League, which is the top tier.

The Ohrid Swimming Marathon is an international open water swimming competition, always taking place in the waters of Lake Ohrid. The swimmers are supposed to swim 30 km from the monastery of Saint Naum to the Ohrid harbor.

Recurring events

 * Ohrid Summer Festival, annual theater and music festival from July to August
 * Ohrid Choir Festival, annual international choir festival at the end of August
 * The Balkan Festival of Folk Songs and Dances, annual folklore music and dance festival at the beginning of July
 * Balkan music square festival, music festival in August in which ethnic musicians from the whole Balkan peninsular participate
 * Ohrid Fest (Охридски Трубадури), music festival in August in which musicians from the whole Balkan peninsular participate. This festival is held for four days which are divided into
 * Debutant Night,
 * Folk Night,
 * Pop Night and
 * International Night.
 * World Prized of Humanism in the Ohrid Academy of Humanism, created by Jordan Plevnes
 * Ohrid art and scientific meetings (Охридска научна и уметничка визита), held in House of Uranija-MANU, Ohrid by Macedonian academy of science and arts

Twin towns – sister cities
Ohrid is twinned with:

 * 🇲🇪 Budva, Montenegro
 * 🇫🇷 Caen, France
 * 🇮🇱 Givatayim, Israel
 * 🇷🇸 Inđija, Serbia
 * 🇷🇸 Kragujevac, Serbia
 * 🇧🇦 Mostar, Bosnia and Herzegovina
 * 🇦🇱 Pogradec, Albania
 * 🇸🇮 Piran, Slovenia
 * 🇹🇷 Safranbolu, Turkey
 * 🇧🇦 Stari Grad (Sarajevo), Bosnia and Herzegovina

 * Vidovec, Croatia
 * Vinkovci, Croatia
 * 🇨🇦 Windsor, Canada
 * 🇦🇺 Wollongong, Australia
 * 🇹🇷 Yalova, Turkey

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ohrid


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My name is Mike. I live in Southern California.

The Best Thing About Wikipedia
Local history. Write about the minutiae in your neighborhood. This is where Wikipedia can be truly useful.

The Worst Thing About Wikipedia
I've noticed some web pages treat Wikipedia as a reliable source for information. I find this scary.

User:Mackerm/Testbed

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Testing
Is it OK with everybody if I start posting again??

title: User:Mackerm


text:
Talk:Stone circle

Stone circles and fiction
Anyone constructed a list of stone circles appearing in stories, films and other works? (There must be more than Children of the Stones.) Could be extended to include hill figures carved into chalk and other such phenomena. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.85.6.26 (talk) 18:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Eurocentric view
I have edited to include more focus on stone circles in non-European countries. Megalithic stone circles are a big topic in Europe and especially UK and the article looked like it was written primarily from that perspective. We already have Stone circles in the British Isles and Brittany and Stone circle (Iron Age) articles focussed on European details -- and concentric and recumbent going into even more detail -- so possibly some of the text from the Europe section of this page should move out to some of those (if it doesn't already repeat them). But the current page's title is 'stone circles' so the page should be about the general phenomenon rather than just a local version. North american medicine wheels are of particular interest as there is still some cultural memory of how they are used by first nations people. I have not deleted any text, just moved it around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.30.195.234 (talk) 10:43, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Strongly disagree. A format of development and type is far more insightful than a TOC based on geographic location, esp as the density is very much Northern Europe. Ceoil (talk) 23:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * North american medicine wheels are a totally different thing. Ceoil (talk) 23:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stone circle


text:
Talk:Against All Enemies

Untitled
I think this article may need at least some cleaning up. In the section "Responses from the Bush Administration," although helpful, half the criticisms don't come from the Bush Administration at all: "Some alleged that Clarke had published the book..." "Others pointed to the fact that Clarke..." "Another major criticism of Clarke...", and if they did I think they need to be attributed to someone and have a reference. Perhaps there should be an additional criticisms section with these that would give the article more structure.

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Moved from article:

 * The Bush administration responded to Clarke's charges somewhat haphazardly, with sometimes contradictory statements that consisted mostly of personal attacks on Clarke and his credibility.

This amounts to a partisan charge that the response was:
 * haphazard (i.e., not credible)
 * contradictory (i.e., clearly false)
 * nothing more than an attack on Clarke's credibility (i.e., incredible!)

I don't know how to repair this, unless we can find someone to source this to, if it really IS the Democratic Party line. --Uncle Ed 21:20, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Does it matter much? The current page already presents the administrations attempt to discredit Clarke as being mostly via personal attacks, and the presentation of their history illuminates them as being haphazard, contradictory, and mostly ad hominem. I mean, the evidence makes the point already, so removing the summary thereof doesn't do much harm; any reader can immediately see the truth of it :)

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As a reader, I think it would be interesting to find out more about why Cheney said the White House was deliberately keeping the head of counter-terrorism in the dark about US counter-terrorism; is that because the White House didn't want to be embarrassed by its Bin Laden relatives cover-up?

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There's also a novel of the same name, by neo-con Ben Wattenberg and a collaborator. Do we need a disambiguation?--Orange Mike 22:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

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If I rememeber rightly when wacthing the 9 11 hearings, it came out the George Bush had never even met him, in a professional capacity before the attacks. is this true?

Fair use rationale for Image:AgainstAllEnemies.jpg
Image:AgainstAllEnemies.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 02:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Against All Enemies


text:
Talk:You Got Served

Untitled
A terrible article maybe, but not patent nonsense. Doesn't deserve speedy deletion. Also if you mark something for speedy deletion you need to list it on the page. DJ Clayworth 21:21, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Looks like a case of bad timing:
 * 21:05, 6 May 2004 Maximus Rex deleted "You Got Served" (content was: ' it is hot big dog')

 * (cur) (last) . . 21:06, 6 May 2004 . . R. fiend (changed meaningless message to stub on th emovie)

 * the page was nonsense when it was tagged. - Lee (talk)  21:39, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Wow, the only thing worse than the film is this article. Soo 10:25, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

You're kidding, right? YGS was a good ass movie.-Rocky

If you're into Breakin's retarded cousin of a movie. In that case, it was a good movie. For the rest of us who don't like our intelligence insulted, it was a shitty movie. - Mac428 19:47, 24 December 2006

The following sentence from the trivia section -- "You Got Served 2 was suppose to come out in 2005, but the story of this movie wasn't figure all this time so until they got to figure out the story then they shoot the video in 2007 to be release beginning 2008." -- is nearly incomprehensible. Is there a means of verifying precisely what the sentence's author was attempting to convey? 71.224.218.188 20:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Hang on though, shouldn't the film come 'In Popular Culture' as the term was in use extensivly before the film ever came out--I don't like football 18:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

==Fake?

Were there any special effects in this movie? or is it ALL real?
 * Are you kidding? Have you seen this movie, it would have been better if it was 90 mins of crappy SFX than what it actually was. I am not aware of any SFX, although producing such an aweful movie did take some pretty special skills --I don't like football 18:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Series
I removed the section about this supposed spinoff supposed series, as I could not find any mention of it with Google, let alone a reliable source. If this is in fact real and someone has a source, go ahead and reinsert it. -Elmer Clark 05:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Crip Walk "criticism"
Omarion got criticized for doing the Crip Walk while wearing red? I highly doubt there was any controversy of this particular nature. Source?205.212.75.130 07:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I just went ahead and took the whole damn Crip Walk item out. While it lasted, though, it was fun to figure out just how many far the intro sentence "Was probably the first movie to feature the infamous Crip Walk throughout" was from saying anything in particular. Someone should add real information back in, if you have any.205.212.75.210 09:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?
I removed what I thought was vandalism from the page. There was a link to the article "Worst Movies Ever Made" and the non-existant article "You Got Served 2". Legendotphoenix 21:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

NPOV and referencing
I tagged the article NPOV because it reads like a promotional piece and does not represent the weight of the sources, especially the section on reviews, and box office performance. The article is almost totally unreferenced. --causa sui (talk) 16:52, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Nine years later and it's every bit as bad. Does no one care? Iuploadscatpics (talk) 22:50, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:You Got Served