text:
Talk:Oil-for-Food Programme/Archive 1

Talk:Oil for food before April 29, 2004

The paragraph regarding the agriculture poll is completely irrelevent and outdated. It needs to be removed or updated. As it is, its useless filler.

''Text moved here... originally written by User:192.251.125.40''

Someone please tell me how the following paragraph is relevent....

At the end of March 2003, a poll made by Agriculture.com indicated 73% of surveyed American farmers supported the invasion of Iraq. The American government estimated that from 300 thousand to 800 thousand tons of American grain could be sent to Iraq after the war, as urgent food supply. Some analysts said American exports would benefit from the war and claim the war would be a help for US wheat and maize, with current sales well behind last year sales. On the other hand, other American industrials argue that American agricultural market is not in such a good shape for Bush action was contrary to the UN advice. Mark Ritchie, from the Agriculture and Trade Policy of Minneapolis said, "After the 11th of September, the USA exportation was welcome all over the world. But in a very short time, that benevolence was lost, and farmers waiting for other countries' benevolence to sell their surplus were bound to suffer."

--- So...whats the verdict on this? I don't think it belongs....

 * I do not think you are perhaps aware of commercial wars between Europe and the USA. Wheat trade is a very tricky business on most north african countries. USA and Europe groups are heavily trying to get the market, because it represents a lot in terms of commercial balance. In fact, I will go slightly further. The main producer of wheat is France, and France is one of the major exportator toward these countries. On the other hand USA has recently experienced problems with its wheat stocks, and is very much in need to find new markets to absorb its production. North african market is one of the primary directions considered.

 * In itself, this might be an argument to explain why many american farmers were in favour of the war (new export market).

 * why do you *exactly* think the oil for food program was set ? Just to help ? No. No help is never free, it was helping Iraki, and it was helping american agricultural market.

 * as regards the information being outdated...well...if historical polls were removed for being outdated, I wonder what will stay in Wikipedia :-)

 * I too think this doesn't belong in the article. I don't feel its particularly useful even mentioning the war per se.  Maybe if only to mark the end of the program.  Point being many people supported the war for many different reasons, to start listing these seems rather useless.

 * I already suggested that we should entirely remove from Wikipedia the initial reason why Bush wanted the war (the so-called weapons of mass destruction). After all, it was an false reason, so it seems quite useless to keep it. I am quite abashed at the very active attempt of a couple of editors to remove facts that seems not useful to them. what is mentionned above is a fact and a fact that had a lot of impact in the farming world. I do feel it is useful to mention this fact. fr0069

Diversion of funds
Saddam bribed top officials to look the other way, while he subverted the oil for food program:

 * Billions of dollars that were supposed to provide food and medical care to the Iraqi people were used by Saddam Hussein to bribe powerful people around the world into opposing sanctions against his regime. (Washington Times, unsigned editorial)
 * The program was originally designed to provide food and medication to the Iraqi people, after the U.N.-imposed sanctions prevented Saddam from selling Iraqi oil as a result of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Under the program, all money from the sale of oil was supposed to go into U.N. bank accounts in New York to buy food and humanitarian supplies. (ABC News online)

This is relevant to articles which discuss claims that Saddam was a corrupt dictator. It's evidence for the "corrupt" part. --Uncle Ed 16:51, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'd support a mention of it, although not the 5 paragraphs that TDC wanted to give it over on the main invasion page. Right now it's an allegation, and given the number of allegations of this type that have continually been proven false, and the fact that many of the details of this one just plain smell bad (it claims that the Russian Orthodox Church and a close friend of the pope are in the oil trade, and that George Galloway - who recently had his finances extensively investigated and was cleared, under an earlier accusation that was proven false - was involved. I'd support adding in that the document has come up, and that the UN has launched an investigation.  Once the UN reports back, then we can elaborate.  As for who of the laundry-list of politicians and groups to include in the mention, I'd say that pro-war people pick their favorites that they find particularly damning, and that anti-war people pick the same number that they think makes the document seem questionable.

What do others think? Rei

 * I think that anything regarding Bush or Saddam is going to be controversial for many years to come. So rather than dismissing any allegation as "disproved" (or endorsing it as "well-documented") we'll just have to be neutral. That is, report that supporters or critics of either of those powerful dudes made various claims which justify or condemn the other dude. --Uncle Ed 13:52, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Of course the goal is to be NPOV; that's not in question. The question is *how* to be NPOV.  For example, I would report on it with a two sentence thing about how an unproven document alleges that various church and government leaders, some of whom have already been cleared from similar charges, and that the UN is investigating.  Users like TDC, on the other hand, would write 5 paragraphs of innuendo about a dozen people mentioned, and wouldn't mention a word of the controversy surrounding it.  In short, the issue I raise is not whether to be NPOV, it is a question of how to be NPOV.  The solution I propose is to have both sides take part in the wording.  How is this a bad idea?  If only one side picks, then you have created a POV reference. --Rei

 * By the way - if I were to come out with a document that says that Richard Nixon had been photographed in Vietnam with an underage prostitute, and my claim (however unreasonable) had not yet been officially debunked, would it be responsible to simply report that "A document indicates that Richard Nixon was photographed in Vietnam with an underaged prostitute"? Simply reporting on something without elaboration is effectively an endorsement of something.  You should know that.  Rei

 * You're right, Rei, and I'm sorry if my defensive tone implied otherwise. How sad it would be if you and I couldn't work together because of my thoughtlessness :-( --Uncle Ed

Looks good to me Rei. TDC 22:37, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

Redirect from Oil for food allegations
Given the deletion discussion about the oil for food allegations resulted in a clear majority for a redirect I moved the relevant information from there to here. Get-back-world-respect 13:25, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

TDC, please refrain from converting this into your personal propaganda site. "Benon Sevan is named as a recipient in the ongoing investigation" is not neutral, nor is "Charges of Corruption" when we already have "UN investigation". Your paragraph starting with "The Oil for Food Program was established in 1996" is redundant given the information is already presented in the introduction plus you did not even care to change it appropriately to this article. It does not make sense to place a link to the page you are editing already. Get-back-world-respect 14:37, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * As you complained that "It was supposed to be a merge, not a hack and slash job", I did not change any of the content except the opening because this article of course already presented information about what the program was. Not about the fact that a lot of money was used for reparations to Kuwait though. Get-back-world-respect

Moribund paragraphs
I moved the following paragraphs from the main article:

 * At the end of March 2003, a poll made by Agriculture.com indicated 73% of surveyed American farmers supported the invasion of Iraq. The American government estimated that from 300 thousand to 800 thousand tons of American grain could be sent to Iraq after the war, as urgent food supply. Some analysts said American exports would benefit from the war and claim the war would be a help for US wheat and maize, with current sales well behind last year sales. On the other hand, other American industrials argue that American agricultural market is not in such a good shape for Bush action was contrary to the UN advice. Mark Ritchie, from the Agriculture and Trade Policy of Minneapolis said, "After the 11th of September, the USA exportation was welcome all over the world. But in a very short time, that benevolence was lost, and farmers waiting for other countries' benevolence to sell their surplus were bound to suffer."

 * On March 28, Secretary-General Annan, the United States, and Britain asked the Security Council to ensure that nearly $10 billion in goods Iraq ordered and already approved, including $2.4 billion for food, can enter the country when conditions allow. The governments of the 15 council members asked time to study the resolution, to review Iraq's contracts and make sure food and health supply get priority. German Ambassador Gunter Pleuger, leading negotiations for the UN oil-for-food program, expects that this humanitarian assistance program will be the biggest of the United Nation history. Another $2.1 million could be voted for Iraqi civilians to cover other emergency needs. U.N. officials estimate they may have to help 350 thousand refugees for everything from tents to food.

 * However, the resolution into discussion makes clear that the chief responsibility for addressing humanitarian consequences of the war would fall to the United States and Britain if they take control of the country. This refers to the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention on the responsibilities of the occupying power. Discussions at the Security Council meeting over this new resolutions are being made difficults by relationships between the different negociators. On March 27, 2003, US Ambassador John Negroponte walked out in the middle of a speech by Iraq's representative, Mohammed Aldouri, who accused the United States of trying to exterminate the Iraqi people. In private conversations, Russian and Syrian representatives argued against mention in the resolution of coordination with "relevant authorities," because they feared it might legitimize the invasion or a U.S. installed government. Consequently, the draft papers of the new resolution are only evoking the "necessary coordination" rather than putting any reference of coordination led by the USA or Britain in Iraq.

The paragraphs all relate to past issues. If anything can be salvaged from them they have to take into account the occupation, the fact the program is ended, and current situations. Cecropia 20:39, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Late VfD discussion
Does anyone object to my removing the "Oil for Food Allegations" from the VfD/Old page? We came to agreement on this, but the other admins skipped over it. Guidelines let me do this, but I still wnat to hear from Rei? GBWR? Cecropia 20:43, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Go for it. :)  --Rei

Former VfD discussion for "Allegation" article
The VfD dispute was solved by consensus, Below is the archive of the discussion. Cecropia 21:52, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Redirect to the main article on the UN "Oil for Food" program, where reports of corruption and mismanagement are very relevant, and integrate the content. BTW, I'm making this statement from the standpoint of an editor rather than a writer. I haven't been following the content disputes lately. I'm just saying that an entry with that given title has no raison d'etre on WP. This was the course of action taken when, e.g., Conservative views on American homelessness (see Talk:Conservative views on American homelessness) and Michael Moore on U.S. foreign policy (see Talk:Michael Moore and US foreign policy) found their way on VFD. 172 21:37, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Linked to at 2003 invasion of Iraq where a paragraph containing the propaganda was deleted several times. Solely based on a translation posted at freerepublic.com Will we next ask the Ku Klux clan to write an article about "Black slaves as a human right to white Americans"? Or the democratic underground about "Failure of George W. Bush's presidency"? Get-back-world-respect 19:29, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The freerepublic.com link has now been replaced with a ling from the source of the translation, MEMRI http://memri.org.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA16404

I must also comment on what a weak attempt this is to get an article whose content embarrasses you deleted.

For shame.

TDC 19:55, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for providing a better link now. However, if at all the information you provide is needed it would be sufficient to include it in the Oil for Food article. But your history of edits against the warning of Rei, 172 and others show you only want to spread propaganda. Get-back-world-respect 23:24, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The Oil for Food Allegations are a serious issue acknowledged by Kofi Annan himself. GBWR wants to make Wikipedia his personal take on world affairs. Read his user page. Cecropia 00:22, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I declare on my user page why I am interested in online discussions, that does not mean I include propaganda in encyclopedia articles. If you have any valuable argument on the article in question I am interested, if you want to engage in off-topic chat you may be interested in the stuff TDC has on his user talk: A comment about "sucking one's own dick" for which he got banned for some days, as well as "believe you me that you have met in TDC the biggest most stubborn prick on the face of planet earth, and I will not stop until your stomach churns with bile at the site of [TDC]".Get-back-world-respect 00:34, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * I already expressed my opinion of the Oil for Food Allegations above. What has TDC and what he puts on his user page have to do with me? Cecropia 00:35, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * If you bring up my user page in the discussion about a completely different topic I can show you this is an own goal. The only reason you provided why you think the article should not be deleted was that it is a "serious issue". That is just an opinion, not an argumentation, and it does not address my suggestion to include relevant information in the Oil for Food article.Get-back-world-respect 00:47, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * OK, Oil for Food refers to an historical program, since the program is no longer operative. Oil for Food Allegations refers to a formal investigation into alleged corruption in the said program, and is an ongoing issue in itself. Cecropia 02:26, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Welcome to Wikipedia, the first encyclopedia to cover allegations based on a single newspaper translation with a 55 line article. Get-back-world-respect 11:49, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * What, did you think this was the Encyclopedia Britannica or something? If you don't like the article, find some other sources and balance it out. Mdchachi 14:25, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Comment - BBC, Guardian, Boston Globe etc. There are plenty of articles on allegations about the Oil for Food program. Average Earthman 17:06, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * I am ok if a balanced section of the allegations is included in the article about the Oil for Food program. But this article is over 50 lines long, was initially based on a sole article from freerepublic.com and created in a partisan way by abusive TDC. By the way, did you read your Guardian article? <>Get-back-world-respect 18:05, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * And so your solution was to try to get it deleted? Quit whining and start editing. Mdchachi | Talk  20:47, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, my solution was to try to get it deleted because a freerepublic.com translation is clearly not enough to start a new encyclopedia article. I insist that a remark on the Oil for food article would be fully sufficient to cover the allegations. It still could be changed in case ever substantial parts of the allegations turned out to be true.

 * merge into Oil for food and redirectGet-back-world-respect 02:38, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge the content into Oil for food and redirect. Edit the content problems there. Rossami 02:59, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Premature request. Once you get the info into Oil for Food and this page becomes redundant, then come back and ask for deletion. In fact you don't even need to delete, just convert to a redirect. Mdchachi|Talk 20:14, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, seems to be an important story, and one worhty of a page in Wikipedia. TDC 20:15, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Get-back-world-respect's continual reference to the fact that the original article was allegedly based on a freerepublic article suggests that his concern is more ideological than substantive. He continues to harp on this point despite the fact that much material has been added from other sources, including the United Nations, which is investigating the issue. And consider this information from WP Deletion Policy:

 * ''Don't list biased articles [for deletion], even heavily biased articles, but add a NPOV dispute header/disclaimer.

 * The NPOV header is already placed. The article has been in a process of rewrite, and it is a subject separate from the main "oil for food" program issue, the program as such having ended. Attempting to get the article deleted on a bogus technical basis because one wants the content submerged goes beyond POV to an attempt at outright censorship. Cecropia
 * As 172 explained above, the main article on the UN "Oil for Food" program reports of alleged corruption and mismanagement, and the content could be merged. An entry with the given title has no raison d'etre on WP. This was the course of action taken when, e.g., Conservative views on American homelessness (see Talk:Conservative views on American homelessness) and Michael Moore on U.S. foreign policy (see Talk:Michael Moore and US foreign policy) found their way on VFD. I did not list this for deletion because of the neutrality dispute but because the extra article is not needed but biased already in the nature of the title. A lot of the initial content had to be deleted because it was not based on facts, such as the allegations against "high ranking members of the Catholic church", "many French firms" and "Kofi Annan himself". Furthermore, reliable sources had to be added, the original article was in fact and not only allegedly solely based on a freerepublic reference, you can easily check that with the history page. TDC created this article when he saw his edit wars at the 2003 invasion of Iraq were fruitless, and his continuously inappropriate writing ("suck your own dick", "you have met in TDC the biggest most stubborn prick on the face of planet earth, and I will not stop until your stomach churns with bile at the site of [TDC]" , "limp dicked western historians" , or "whine fest"  shows very well this person is not here to contribute valuable information. The articles can be merged, the "allegation" one can stay as a redirect. Get-back-world-respect 02:20, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * There are two things I see going on here—there is (1) the issue of the people who wrote/edited this article; and (2) the article. I don't know what can be done about what editors say about things. As to the article itself, it should present the issue, and I and others thinks the issue is currently deserving of a valid article. If the article were titled "TDC views on Oil for Food Allegations" or "Get-back-world-respect views on Oil for Food Allegations" I would vote to delete. Cecropia 02:30, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * "Allegations" is enough for an inappropriate title, no TDC needed. Get-back-world-respect 02:34, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * As for my two cents, I've reluctantly allowed this article - an article solely about unproven accusations - but have had to fight tooth and nail to stop TDC from insinuating allegations as facts and to get him/her to bear the tiny amount of patience it will take to wait for the actual investigation to pan out, before flooding pages full of articles about what is likely just another entry in a long line of since-disproven slander against antiwar figures. Forged documents and all. Personally, I'd vote to see it either deleted or protected until the UN's investigation is completed. --User:Rei
 * You've "reluctantly allowed this article"? What standing do you claim to allow an article to appear or not? The "unproven accusations" are sufficient for a formal UN inquiry where Kofi Annan himself sees a probability of wronggoing, as yet undetermined as to source (see the article, with attribution). "Until the UN's investigatiom is complete"? Wikipedia is full of unproven allegations and ongoing speculation. Are you prepared to delete half or so of the GWB article? Cecropia 20:46, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, I "reluctantly allowed" it, the same way as I, and every other user on here, completely nonreluctantly doesn't allow edits that they think are inaccurate, misleading, or POV. Sorry if it sounded haughty to you. "... are sufficient for a formal UN inquiry ..." - Actually, the main inquiry isn't covering what most of this article is about (bribery); there is a small side inquiry about the bribery allegations, which are solely based on a single set of documents reported by an Iraqi newspaper.  "Wikipedia is full of unproven allegations and ongoing speculation" - I'd like to think that we try for better than that.  --Rei
 * Well then, if you feel that the biggest issues in the allegations aren't covered, the solution would be for you to add those, wouldn't it? rather than seek to have the article deleted. And my point on the "unproven allegations," etc., is that this is the nature of covering current events in Wikipedia. Cecropia 01:15, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the article lets it appear as if the UN inquiry gave credibility to the Al Mada bribery allegations. The actual UN inquiry does not seem to be enough of a scandal to be excessively covered in the media. By far more interesting to throw some more mud on the usual suspects such as Galloway. Get-back-world-respect 02:34, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Keep for now. Always difficult to write encyclopaedia entries about current events (given that encyclopaedias have to be detached and neutral) but it's got enough details to justify a separate page and putting it in Oil for food would make that page unwieldy. Dbiv 21:41, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * What is the policy in such cases? 172, Mdchachi, Rossami, Jiang, No-One, and I want a redirect, Rei wants it deleted or protected until the UN's investigation is completed, and Cecropia, Dbiv, and abusive TDC want to keep it as it is. I know that a clear majority is needed for a deletion but in case of a redirect? Get-back-world-respect 03:29, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, there's clearly no consensus for deletion, which implies the material be removed. Five days haven't passed, and it will be several days more before a decision is made as the deletions by admins are behind. The policy also says: "When in doubt, don't delete." If I were making the decision, I would depend on the guideline I quoted above: "Don't list biased articles [for deletion], even heavily biased articles, but add a NPOV dispute header/disclaimer." But since this is contentious, and I voted on it, I recuse myself from making the decision.

 * P.S. I would also have MDCHACHI clarify his/her vote, because it says both "Keep" and "Redirect". Cecropia 04:12, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep OR move entire-article AS IS into a section in Oil for Food. Either way the article needs work, it doesn't matter to me where you work on it. Mdchachi|Talk 14:50, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah, well, if you redirect the redirection link must be kept, right? I explained above why I initially listed the page for deletion, plus I do not know of a list for redirection. Get-back-world-respect 04:18, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, I could go for merging and redirection, but only if the text is transferred complete and then continue with editing and give-and-take as before (i.e., still have to justify individual changes from what pre-existed). And, yes, policy says the redirect link be kept if the article isn't deleted. BUT the VfD on this is still running, so I would take no such action until after an admin acts on it. Cecropia 04:40, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * merge with Oil for food. There's plenty of space there and not much here worth merging. This article is inherently POV. --Jiang 04:20, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Just about every article about current events that is at all controversial is inherently POV. In the case of this article, keeping it could be considered POV for people who don't like the UN; OTOH, deleting it could be considered POV as trying to cover up possible wrongdoing in the UN. Cecropia 04:44, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * That is not true, an article about the occupation of Iraq does not have to be POV, and neither the Kerry nor the Bush article have a neutrality dispute message because people balance out each other. The article debated here is POV by its title already, and no one wants to hide valuable information, just move it to were it belongs. Since we have a seven to three majority I start moving. Get-back-world-respect 11:01, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * If the article is POV and you don't like it, then it seems to me that the solution is to edit it and try to make it NPOV. I don't have a problem with the title but if there is consensus against it, then change it. How about Oil for Food Investigations? Mdchachi|Talk 14:50, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Summarize, merge into Oil for food, and redirect. The arguments have already been made. —No-One Jones 04:52, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

What to do about recent edit wars
I could point to dozens of entries in Wikipedia which give put too much emphasis on certain aspects of controversial topics. Either this information gets its own page (again) or it stays, either way we should debate this here,t on the talk page before any more changes are made. TDC 20:41, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Every mother knows that "He did it, too!" is not a valid excuse. You know very well that you have attempted to devote a preposterous percentage of this article to allegations instead of to the facts of the structure, operation, founding, etc of the OFF, and that this is almost a textbook definition of POV.  It doesn't take a genius to look at the article and tell that you had, singlehandledly and against the wishes of the other editors on here, attempted to turn it into an article that has 3 to 4 times more allegation than fact.  You have continually refused to listen to everyone else editing this article.  In short: either link to sites making all of the scandal allegations, or leave it alone.  Your changes are not wanted, your scandal-mongering is not wanted, your turning wikipedia into a tabloid rag is not wanted - it is all not wanted.  --Rei

 * A great deal of Wikipedia is nothing more than bullshit polemics and feeble left wing attempts at rewriting history. Too many people go to this site to allow this to happen. These so called allegations are more fact than allegation at this point chief. The only reason that they have to be labeled as alleged is because the truth hurts far to many sensitive egos here. The number of hoops I have had to jump over (documentation, sourcing, justifications) when making contributions to any entry far outweigh the standards applied to other people.

 * If you believe that I have devoted a preposterous percentage to these allegations, then let us break off the article into another seperate page. You know just as well as I do that most if not all of these allegations will be proven dead on in the coming months.

 * When is an allegation no longer an allegation?TDC 21:14, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * A great deal of Wikipedia is nothing more than bulshit polemics and feeble left wing attempts at rewriting history.

 * To borrow a favorite right wing saying... "Love it or leave it". If you're going to insult wikipedia that way, get the heck out of here.  Wikipedia has produced a *lot* of really good material.  If you're going to treat it this way, pick up and go elsewhere.

 * The reason that these things are "alleged" is because they are alleged. If they were more than alleged, there wouldn't be investigations.  An investigation is the process of turning an allegation into facts.  These are *allegations*.  And you don't have the iota of patience to wait for an investigation before giving us a 4:1 ratio of allegation to encyclopedic details.

 * To you, this is some sort of big political game. Well, I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way.  We strive for *balance*.  Even I, who hated the invasion of Iraq and the demonization of Saddam, have been over on the talk page about human rights abuses in Iraq under Saddam advocating inclusion of more references.  We need *BALANCE*, and that is something you seem to have no concept of.  It's just some political game in some sort of left-wing debate forum to you.

 * Do you see me over on the Bush page shoving in allegations of Bush's cocaine use? Do you see me over on Israel/Palestine pages shoving in allegations of the Israeli art ring spies?  Do you see me over on the Sept. 11th page pushing allegations that Bush didn't care about 9/11?  No?  It's because I actually *care* about balance on Wikipedia.  I actually care about proof.  You, on the other hand, love the slightest bit of gossip and preach it as to pages of gospel truth even when there are investigations upcoming.  It's sickening.  This isn't a tabloid - you just don't do stuff like that.  --Rei

 * Now quite a bit of the allegations have gone but a new one of an obviously not unbiased individual has gotten its own paragraph? I do not know if this improves on the article. Get-back-world-respect 23:50, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * "The number of hoops I have had to jump over (documentation, sourcing, justifications) when making contributions to any entry far outweigh the standards applied to other people." TDC, have you ever wondered if this might be fue to the nature of your edits? You excessively spread allegations, rumours and gossip, present "facts" that are indeed only statements of a government, and you have repeatedly misbehaved and tried to insult others. Get-back-world-respect 00:05, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I've protected the article. Please work out your differences here on the talk page. I'm just protecting the current version and am in no way expressing an opinion about which is correct. Thanks, BCorr | Брайен 14:30, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * From a post to Bcorr's talk page:

 * Unfortunately, this issue is unlikely to be resolved on talk without outside intervention. Would you mind stepping in with an outsider's perspective? The situation so far is that there are three active users working on this article: myself (Rei), Get-Back-World-Respect, and TDC. Both Get-Back-World-Respect and myself are advocating for an article about oil for food which is at least *half* about the program; certainly with no more than half of the article about allegations that are currently under investigation. TDC wants to make the article 4:1 about the allegations. Get-Back-World-Respect and myself find this completely unreasonable; at least until the allegations (who are being pushed by Ahmed Chalabi, hardly a reliable figure) are investigated (it's only going to take a few months); otherwise, it is smear. We're perfectly willing to leave a whole half of the article not about the Oil For Food program (which a real encyclopedia would be all about), but about the allegations. But 4:1 just seems ridiculous. Would you mind stepping in with your opinion on the subject? I don't think TDC and our differences will just get resolved on their own; we've been trying to resolve them for a long time, and it hasn't gotten anywhere.

 * Bcorr suggested that we put in a request for comments, which I have done. Hopefully, we'll start to get some outside opinions here now.  --Rei

I have a sneaking suspiscion that a request for comment portion would not alleviate my concerns on this subject, so I will not be bound by it.

I will suggest again, why not make a new page for this (again)?TDC 16:44, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * Your "concerns"? Have you yet even addressed why you think this should have a 4:1 accusations/facts ratio, or your inability to wait for investigations to pan out (a few months)?  This is not a gossip site.  This is not a tabloid.  We hold higher standards than that.  Apparently you don't.  --Rei

You seem to believe that all of my contributions are nothing more than pure speculation, and have little if any basis on facts. Well my contributions to the article have been verified by a GAO investigation, and it came to the same conclusions that I have included in the article, and can be summed up here.

 * 1.Money from the UN’s oil for food program was being diverted to the private bank accounts of Saddam Hussein.
 * 2.The vast majority supply contracts were being given out to companies based mainly on following conditions.

 * They were based in nations who’s governments sat on the UN security council and had a great deal of involvement with the Iraqi state oil industry.
 * They were based on the companies willingness to deliberately overcharge for supplies and covertly provide a percentage of the overcharged amount back to the regime.

 * 3. Individuals who were given oil sales contracts were Hussein supporters, anti-sanctions activist, or influential persons within the UN Oil for Food program.
 * 4. Individuals at the UN were at best grossly negligent and at worst criminally culpable in this.

 * 5. The corruption began when Ben Sevan took over the program.

The Al Mada list that you so flippantly disregard, is not a list at all. It is more a compilation of 1000’s of documents pertaining to the illegal activities of both the UN as well as the former Iraqi regime. No one to date has come forward and claimed that the information obtained from the Iraqi Oil Ministry (the Al Mada “list”) is fraudulent.

Considering that this will go down in history as the biggest corruption scandal of all time and has the potential to permanently cripple the reputation and perceived legitimacy of the UN (depending on how the UN handles this), these ‘’allegations’’ are far more important than the original program.TDC 18:06, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * 1) The GAO report isn't hardly as damning as you're portraying it. Get off your high horse and read the report.  The report doesn't claim that the individuals of the UN were criminally culpable or anything like that; they primarily fault the layout of the program for letting money go through (things like not having the sanctions committee do price review), but they don't accuse anyone of any sort of personal profiting or hidden motives.  That is what almost all of your smear is doing.  In short, leave the GAO out of your smear, because the report doesn't back it up.

The report most certainly does back up every claim I made. Mabey you should take off you rose colored glasses and put down the picture of Kofi Annan in the heart shaped frame, and go read it again. TDC 19:25, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * Point to where in the document they mention Sevan. Point to where they criticize the nationality of the companies.  Point to where they say the UN was involved in the overcharging.  Point to where they say that the contracts were given to leaders who were Hussein supporters.  Point to where they say anyone at the UN was criminally culpable.  Can you do any of that?  --Rei

 * 2) The Al-Mada list has been provided by the oil ministry. Who is the head of the oil ministry?   Bahr Il Uloom.  He's friend of multi-count felon embezzler Ahmed Chalabi, which is currently under investigation from the US for misuse of government funds and whose INC continually lied to the US and the media in the runup to the war and has been shunned by almost everyone, including your hero David Kay.

Are you trying to say that simply because Bahr Il Uloom is friends with Chalabi that the documents have little if any validity? Did Uloom spend 8 months forging documents so as to smear his enemies? Interestingly, some of the people on the documents have admitted to their role in the ‘’allegations’’, they too must be part oft his grand conspiracy to destroy the UN’s credibility.

 * Chalabi and his friends have continually used forged documents and false testimony to try and get their way. What on earth makes you think they'll change now?

I see, so its ‘’wrong’’ to imply that Cotecna received the inspection contract because Kofi Annan’s son worked for them. It must also be ‘’wrong’’ to imply that Galloway’s efforts to end the sanctions had anything to do with the fact (of which Galloway admitted) that Miram Appeal was receiving money from Iraqi “ex-pats” loyal to Saddam. But we can say that it is alright to imply that Uloom forged thousands of documents because he happens to be friends with Chalabi.

Where the hell is the logic in that? TDC 19:25, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * Galloway admitted that it was *possible* that some people that donated to Miriam Appeal were connected to Saddam, but that he had no knowledge of it. How on earth would donations to Miriam Appeal help convince Galloway to oppose the war when Miriam Appeal itself was founded by Galloway to attempt to end the sanctions and make the west aware of Iraqi suffering?  How much more circular can you get than that?  Yes, I know that, to you, if someone opposed the war, they must have loved Saddam and been on his payroll, and that the fact that it is circular logic is irrelevant to you.

 * It is wrong to imply that Cotenca received the contract because Kojo was a *consultant* for them without evidence. What evidence do you have that it was due to Kojo that they received the contract?  Who else was even competing for the contract?  How many companies do you think there are that do international inspection services and can show up on a 24 hour notice? Can you name a single competitor?  Can you evidence that Kojo was involved at all?  If not, they're not only allegations, but they're unfounded allegations.

 * By the way, you're apparently unfamiliar with Chalabi's spat with the UN. It's flared up again recently with Brahimi, who stated that Chalabi will not be welcome in the new government, and Chalabi accused Brahimi of being an Arab nationalist with a hidden agenda.  We have a guy who sent forged documents and lying "defectors" galore to the press and the government, with a known grudge against the UN, one of his allies "comes up with documents" that accuse the UN and people who opposed the war (that Chalabi and his friends fought so hard for - "As far as we're concerned we've been entirely successful. That tyrant Saddam is gone and the Americans are in Baghdad. What was said before is not important."), and to you it deserves 4:1 worth of smearing allegations to content?  --Rei

 * 3) Even if *ALL OF THIS WEREN'T THE CASE*, what you have are *STILL* allegations under investigation. What is so hard about this for you to understand?  Why do you feel the need to fill the article at a 4:1 ratio with allegations instead of the details of the OFF program?  --Rei

Because you are to lazy to expand the first portion, or because you want to pull a Stalin and airbrush out information that makes your chums look bad. TDC 19:25, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

Just looking at that page I started myself, I notice that basically 90% of what I originally wrote has been removed. When you guys are over with your edit war, I'll come back to reinsert this. I saw no clear argument for the censorship. SweetLittleFluffyThing 17:00, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * It's sad what this article has turned into, isn't it? Your version was a pretty good article (apart from the agriculture line, which was discussed above); it has now become a UN-bashing tabloid rag.  --Rei

 * The agricultural line has been discussed by ONE person only. I found the arguments non convincing. Unless there are more arguments brought to explain basically the deletion of 90% of the original article (which, forgive me for saying, brought some material from the perspective of a 1) non english 2) person from the agricultural sector) was not justified. Basically, that was just information removal by someone with another perspective. I find this inappropriate on Wikipedia. I'll come back to it in a couple of month :-) SweetLittleFluffyThing 18:38, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * it has now become a UN-bashing tabloid rag, Boo freakin hoo. TDC 17:40, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

Allegations and Investigation
I guess one of my main points on this subject is that you refuse to acknowledge what I have contributed, because they are nothing more than allegations. Allegations of corruption and graft have not been properly investigated and therefore deserve no place here and will not deserve a place here until a full and formal investigation has been completed. I could make the argument on a number of other Wiki articles.

Henry Kissinger’s entry is devoted more to ‘’allegations’’ made about him than his background. Diebold has much more content relating to allegations that it is involved in schemes of voter fraud than on the company itself. ChoicePoint has more information on its alleged involvement in vote fixing in the 2000 election, than on the company. The IMF page has what one could consider a disproportional amount of the article dedicated to criticizing the article based on allegations. Augusto Pinochet’s entry has a raging debate as to whether or not to include a substantial amount of allegations that the CIA was involved in his coup. The allegations in these pages come directly and indirectly from the work of investigative journalists.

These are just a few of the many topics I could have chosen as examples, but I think they make my point more them well enough.

My contributions on the Oil for Food program and the allegations that surround it has all been researched by investigative journalists as well. Now, these may not be the garden variety left of center investigative journalism people like you are so in love with, but never the less these people, like Claudia Rosett (who testified under oath in front of the House Subcommittee on National Security.), put just as much effort into the work they do as Greg Palast. They just have to perform at a higher level of scrutiny and integrity than their left of center counterparts.

Now if we as a community see no problem with articles, like the ones mentioned above, that devote a seemingly disproportionate amount of space to allegations made in large part by left-of-center investigative journalists, then why do some of us see a problem doing this in the Oil For Food article?

It seems that once again, there are two standards. TDC 19:59, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * First off, I'm not involved in the Kissenger article. Secondly, it is at most half devoted to allegations - something that I've said I would accept here.  Finally, the Kissenger stuff has been far, far, far more investigated than this.  Surely you will admit all three of those points.  I am also not involved in the Diebold, Choicepoint, IMF, and Pinochet articles.  While Diebold and Choicepoint certainly could use more balance (don't complain - do!) (both of them have been more investigated than this, especially Choicepoint), IMF is a 1:1 criticism/content ratio, and Pinochet - who has been extensively investigated - has perhaps a 1:7 criticism/content ratio.  None of these are even close to what you are trying to do to this article.

 * You claim investigations. What journalist showed that there actually was oil given as per the al-Mada list?  What journalist showed that Kojo Annan had anything at all to do with the Cotenca deal?  What journalist did any of this sort of stuff?  There is a reason that there are investigations currently - to see if any of this has merit..  What is hard about that for you to understand?  Why don't you have the ability to wait the short amount of time for the investigations before edit-warring over a 4:1 allegation/content ratio?

 * By the way - I'm still looking for a response to one of my earlier comments: "Point to where in the document they mention Sevan.  Point to where they criticize the nationality of the companies.  Point to where they say the UN was involved in the overcharging.  Point to where they say that the contracts were given to leaders who were Hussein supporters.  Point to where they say anyone at the UN was criminally culpable.  Can you do any of that? "

 * These were what you claimed the GAO said. Prove it. --Rei
 * I support Rei's points that the Pinochet article has by far less allegations than this one, that much more is known about those allegations than the ones TDC wants to include here and that some of what he writes has no sources. I also point out that TDC started his allegations based on an entry from clearly partisan "free"republic.com, that he is known to be an abusive user listed as a vandal, and that it is unwise to protect his version. A neutral party is needed. Get-back-world-respect 23:09, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Oil-for-Food Programme/Archive 1


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Nanaimo—Alberni

Nanaimo—Alberni was a federal electoral district in British Columbia, Canada, that was represented in the House of Commons of Canada from 1979 to 1988. It was subsequently recreated and was represented in the House of Commons from 1997 to 2015.

Demographics
Nanaimo—Alberni has the highest median age of all federal electoral districts in Canada (50.1 years of age).

Geography
From 1979 to 1988, it consisted of:
 * the Alberni-Clayoquot Regional District,
 * the Nanaimo Regional District,
 * (Lasqueti Island and the adjacent smaller islands in the Powell River Regional District,
 * the northwest part of Electoral Area H of the Cowichan Valley Regional District.

The present district includes Lasqueti Island, the Regional District of Alberni-Clayoquot, and all of the Regional District of Nanaimo except the extreme southeastern part, including but the extreme northern part of Nanaimo. The southern part of Nanaimo is part of the Nanaimo—Cowichan electoral district.

History
This electoral district was originally created in 1976 from parts of Comox—Alberni and Nanaimo—Cowichan—The Islands ridings.

It was abolished in 1987 when it was redistributed into Comox—Alberni and Nanaimo—Cowichan.

It was re-created in 1996 from those two ridings.

The 2012 electoral redistribution will see this riding dissolved into the new ridings of Courtenay—Alberni and Nanaimo—Ladysmith for the 2015 election.

Members of Parliament
This riding has elected the following members of Parliament:

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Nanaimo—Alberni


text:
Zhang Daqing

Zhang Daqing (born October 23, 1969) is a Chinese amateur astronomer. He is from Henan province.

He co-discovered periodic comet 153P/Ikeya-Zhang. He is the first Chinese amateur astronomer who has a comet name after him. He is also a telescope maker. Periodic comet 153P/Ikeya-Zhang was discovered by his self-made telescope on February 1, 2002.

title: Zhang Daqing


text:
Comic novel

A comic novel is a novel-length work of humorous fiction. Many well-known authors have written comic novels, including P. G. Wodehouse, Henry Fielding, Mark Twain, and John Kennedy Toole. Comic novels are often defined by the author's literary choice to make the thrust of the work—in its narration or plot—funny or satirical in orientation, regardless of the putative seriousness of the topics addressed.

Novels, books, plays, and many works of fiction or art can certainly contain and include passages or themes that are comic, humorous or satirical, but the defining characteristic of this genre is that comedy is the framework and baseline of the story, rather than an occasional or recurring motif. It is the through-line and organizing genre for the novel's tone, orientation and sensibility. A reader is not expected to 'find' or 'discover' a humorous moment within the reality of the text, rather, humor is the ongoing mood, like a comedy movie, rather than a movie that has some comedy or laughs within it.

Literary scholars distinguish textual analysis on this basis; the theory being that a story by Mark Twain that is a satirical critique in its very origin, for example, must be understood differently than a more literal novelistic plot.

British
One of the most notable British comic novelists is P. G. Wodehouse, whose work follows on from that of Jerome K. Jerome, George Grossmith, and Weedon Grossmith (see The Diary of a Nobody). Saki's work is also significant, although his career was cut short by World War I.

A. G. Macdonell and G. K. Chesterton also produced flights of whimsy.

Henry Fielding's The History of Tom Jones, a Foundling was a notable mid-18th century work in the genre.

More contemporary British humorists are George MacDonald Fraser, Tom Sharpe, Kingsley Amis, Terry Pratchett, Richard Gordon, Rob Grant, Douglas Adams, Evelyn Waugh, Anthony Powell, Nick Hornby, Helen Fielding, Eric Sykes, Leslie Thomas, Stephen Fry, Richard Asplin, Mike Harding, Joseph Connolly, and Ben Elton.

Irish
James Joyce's Ulysses is considered by some to be a comic novel.

American
Notable American comic novelists include Mark Twain, Richard Brautigan, Philip Roth, John Kennedy Toole, James Wilcox, John Swartzwelder, Larry Doyle, Jennifer Weiner, Carl Hiaasen, Joseph Heller, Peter De Vries, Kurt Vonnegut, Terry Southern, and Christopher Moore.

Persian
Iraj Pezeshkzad

title: Comic novel


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User:Kaylor

Welcome, Trina! I fear I'm a born proofreader too... Anyway, you can probably clog up your life completely if you start on the German Wikipedia as well. - Robin Patterson 00:26, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

title: User:Kaylor


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Talk:X (band)

See Template:VfD-xaband for discussion of what to do with X (band). Previous discussion on Template:VfD-X band. - David Gerard 10:39, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

authors: Template namespace initialisation script

title: Talk:X (band)


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Mister Miracle

Mister Miracle is the name of three fictional superheroes appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics.

The Scott Free version of Mister Miracle first appeared in Mister Miracle #1 (April 1971) and was created by Jack Kirby.

Publication history
Mister Miracle debuted in the first issue of the eponymous series cover dated April 1971 as part of the Fourth World tetralogy. Big Barda, the character's love interest, was introduced in Mister Miracle #4 (October 1971). According to creator Jack Kirby's then-assistant Mark Evanier, Kirby wanted to be a comics creator and creative supervisor at DC Comics, rather than a regular writer-artist: "... we were going to turn Mr. Miracle over to Steve Ditko after a couple of issues and have me write it and Ditko draw it. Carmine Infantino, publisher of DC at the time, vetoed that and said Kirby had to do it all himself." Evanier did unofficially co-plot most issues of the series.

The original title featuring Miracle was the longest-lasting of the Fourth World titles, lasting 18 issues while the other titles, New Gods and The Forever People, were cancelled after only 11 issues. The most traditionally super-heroesque comic of the various Fourth World titles, the last seven issues as well as later incarnations of the series would downplay the Fourth World mythology in favor of more traditional superhero fare. The character teamed up with Batman three times in The Brave and the Bold. The title was revived in September 1977 by Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers. Steve Gerber and Michael Golden produced three issues ending with #25 (September 1978) with several story lines unresolved. Mister Miracle teamed with Superman in DC Comics Presents #12 (August 1979) and met the Justice League of America and the Justice Society of America in Justice League of America #183–185 (October–December 1980).

When the character was revived as part of the Justice League International lineup in 1987, a one-shot special by writer Mark Evanier and artist Steve Rude was published in 1987. This special was followed by an ongoing series that began in January 1989, written by J. M. DeMatteis and drawn by Ian Gibson. Other writers who contributed to the title include Keith Giffen, Len Wein, and Doug Moench. This run lasted 28 issues before cancellation in 1991. The series was largely humor-driven, per Giffen's reimagining Scott Free, his wife Big Barda, and their friend Oberon, who pretended to be Scott's uncle, as living in suburbia when they were not fighting evil with the Justice League.

In 1996, a series written by Kevin Dooley showed Scott attempting to escape his destiny as a New God by working for a charitable foundation in New York. This ran for seven issues, before all Fourth World titles were canceled for the launch of Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

In addition, Scott's ally and wife Big Barda was made a member of the revived Justice League and appeared regularly in the Jack Kirby's Fourth World series by John Byrne.

With the launching of Grant Morrison's meta-series Seven Soldiers (2005–2006), Mister Miracle was revived as a four-issue miniseries. This miniseries focused instead on Scott's sidekick and apprentice Shilo Norman, who died.

In 2017, the character returned in a 12-issue limited series written by Tom King and illustrated by Mitch Gerads.

From July 2021 to January 2022, Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom was published as a six issue miniseries starring Shilo Norman as Mister Miracle. The series was written by Brandon Easton and drawn by Fico Ossio.

Fictional character biography
Mister Miracle was one of four DC Comics series in Kirby's ambitious, but short-lived, Fourth World saga. Mister Miracle, Super Escape Artist was inspired by comic book writer/artist Jim Steranko. Mister Miracle's relationship with his wife Big Barda is based on Kirby's relationship with his own wife Roz.

Thaddeus Brown
Thaddeus Brown was a circus escape artist whose stage name was Mister Miracle. As the first escape artist to use the name Mister Miracle, Brown earned a modest living and practiced his art into his later years. Brown met Scott Free as he was practicing an outdoor escape with his long-time friend and assistant Oberon. Scott then aided Brown as he was being coerced by Intergang thugs working for Intergang member Steel Hand by fighting them off. Unbeknownst to Scott, Intergang was an Earth crime organization run by Darkseid. Brown then told Scott that he was being harassed by the local Intergang Capo known as Steel Hand. Brown and Steel Hand had been in a hospital together and made a bet that Brown could not escape death. While practicing an escape of being tied to a tree with a projectile speeding toward him, Brown was shot by a sniper working for Steel Hand while Scott and Oberon stood by helplessly. After Brown's murder, Scott put on Brown's costume and exacted his revenge on Steel Hand by bringing him down. Scott Free took up the Mister Miracle name and hired his assistant Oberon. Scott and Oberon, later joined by Big Barda, toured the country as the Mister Miracle Super Escape Artist show.

Thaddeus was later revealed to have a son named Ted.

In 2016, DC Comics implemented another relaunch of its books called "DC Rebirth" which restored its continuity to a form much as it was prior to "The New 52". Thaddeus was one of Batman's teachers, educating him in the art of escape.

At the end of the "Flashpoint Beyond" limited series, Thaddeus Brown was among the Thirteen in the custody of the Time Masters. The capsules containing Thaddeus and those with him were found to have failed and they were pulled back to the 1940s where history is rebuilding around them.

During "The New Golden Age", Thaddeus Brown' bio revealed that his history of being shot by a sniper working for Steel Hand remains intact, though it is claimed that Ted and a few people might know that Thaddeus faked his death. Mister Miracle was revealed to have been part of a group called the Justice Society Dark. In 1941, Doctor Fate and Salem the Witch Girl came across Mister Miracle fighting Solomon Grundy while Zatara and Diamond Jack were having a spat. After Solomon Grundy was chained up, Mister Miracle suggested to Doctor Fate and Salem the Witch Girl that they should go apprehend Bride of Grundy.

Scott Free
Scott Free is the son of Highfather, the ruler of New Genesis, and his wife, Avia. As part of a diplomatic move to stop a war with the planet Apokolips, Highfather agreed to an exchange of heirs with the galactic tyrant Darkseid. The exchange of heirs as hostages was supposed to guarantee that neither side would attack the other. Scott was traded for Darkseid's second-born son Orion.

Scott grew up in one of Granny Goodness' "Terror Orphanages" with no knowledge of his heritage, but still refused to allow his spirit to break under the institution's torturous training. As he matured, Scott rebelled against the totalitarian ideology of Apokolips. Hating himself for being unable to fit in despite his unfailing defiance of the abuse he suffered, Scott was influenced by Metron to see a future beyond Darkseid. Scott became part of a small band of pupils led by Himon, a New Genesian living under cover as a Hunger Dog on Apokolips. It was at these meetings that Scott met Lieutenant Big Barda of Darkseid's Female Furies who would later become his wife.

Eventually, Free escaped and fled to Earth. His escape, long anticipated and planned for by Darkseid, nullified the pact between Darkseid and Highfather; giving Darkseid the excuse he needed to revive the war with New Genesis. Once on Earth, Free met circus escape artist Thaddeus Brown, whose stage name was Mister Miracle. Brown was impressed with Scott's skills (especially as supplemented with various advanced devices he had taken from his previous home). Scott befriended Brown's assistant, a dwarf named Oberon. When Thaddeus Brown was murdered, Free assumed the identity of Mister Miracle. Barda later followed Scott to Earth and the two used their New Gods powers, equipment and skills in the war against Darkseid, who was still interested in recapturing both of them. Eventually, tired of being chased on Earth by Darkseid's servants, Scott returned to Apokolips and won his freedom by legal means, through trial by combat.

Scott later met Brown's son Ted.

Free later became a member of the Justice League International as did Barda and Oberon, which recast him and Big Barda as semi-retired super-heroes that sought to live quiet lives in the suburbs when they were not involved in Justice League-related adventures. In particular, Free was recast as a hen-pecked husband, who often found himself on the receiving end of his wife's temper over her desire to live a quiet life on Earth.

During his time in the League, Scott developed an intense rivalry with Justice League villain Manga Khan. The villainous intergalactic trader and black marketer repeatedly kidnapped Scott, ultimately convincing Scott's conniving former manager Funky Flashman into forging documents forcing Scott to work for Manga as his personal entertainer. To force him to go along willingly, Khan replaced Scott with a lifelike robot who was ultimately murdered by Despero during his first mission with the Justice League. Scott ultimately escaped from Manga Khan's clutches and reunited with his wife and friends, though the shock was enough to cause Scott to ultimately quit the League and to take on a protégé in the form of Shilo Norman.

In the conclusion of Final Crisis, many of the New Gods are all seemingly reborn. Among their numbers are the apparently resurrected Mister Miracle and Barda.

In September 2011, The New 52 rebooted DC's continuity. In this new timeline, Mister Miracle appears alongside Big Barda flying around the ruins of Gotham City on Earth 2. Their purpose is revealed to find the mysterious new Batman, which is thwarted when both are attacked by Fury.

Shilo Norman
Abandoned by his mother when he was only an infant, Shilo Norman's desire to escape was fostered in an abusive orphanage.

He eventually ran away and ended up on the streets near the informal ward of escapologist Thaddeus Brown (the original Mister Miracle), and he served as an occasional stand-in. When Brown was murdered by Intergang mobster Steel Hand, Scott Free avenged his new friend's death by taking on the identity of Mister Miracle and brought Steel Hand to justice. After Brown's death, Shilo worked with Scott and his wife Barda. A master escape artist himself, the now-adult Shilo was appointed security chief of the Slabside Island Maximum Security prison for Metahumans known as the Slab. He held his own during the Joker's "Last Laugh" riot and was promoted to Warden of the Slab, which had by then been relocated to Antarctica. A somewhat reconceived Shilo Norman appears in Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers crossover. In Final Crisis #2, Shilo tells Sonny Sumo "There was a cosmic war and the powers of evil won", prompting him to form a team to fight the evil gods. Shilo was later summoned by Nix Uotan to fight against Mandrakk the Dark Monitor.

Shilo would later appear as Mister Miracle alongside his other Seven Soldiers team mates in Morrison and Dan DiDio's series "Sideways".

Shilo Norman's Mister Miracle also appears in Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom, a six-issue miniseries spinning out of the events of "DC Future State" and tying into "Infinite Frontier".

Powers and abilities
Like all the New Gods, Scott Free is functionally immortal; having stopped aging around the age of 30, he has developed an immunity to toxins and diseases. Scott has superhuman strength, agility, speed, coordination and reflexes, along with incredible stamina. Due to his exhausting and rigorous life on Apokolips, his body has tremendous resistance to extreme temperatures, physical injury, psychic influence and he is capable of extremely rapid recovery. Scott has a genius-level intellect and is knowledgeable about much of the universe. During his life on Apokolips, he was instructed by Himon in the science and use of advanced Fourth World's technology. He is a genius inventor who has designed most of the equipment in his costume, including his Mother Box.

Scott was trained by Granny Goodness as an Aero-trooper. Although he despises violence and is often portrayed as a pacifist, he is still an exceptional warrior, instructed in all combat techniques of Apokolips and very skilled with weapons. On one occasion, he was able to beat Big Barda. Also, he is a master escapologist and acrobat. He is considered better at escapes than Batman, and much of his skill is the result of his advanced physiology.

Scott Free is heir of the Alpha Effect, the antithesis of Darkseid's Omega Energy. This power was almost unlimited and allowed him to manipulate energy in many ways; for example, he was able to knock out "The Asgardian God Thor", draining his vital power. Also, Mister Miracle used his godlike powers to resurrect his wife and battle against Steppenwolf and Kalibak, temporarily stopping the war between New Genesis and Apokolips. Later, Scott relinquished his heritage.

Scott possesses greater power as the embodiment of the Anti-Life Equation. The ability is fueled by rage and negative emotions. The Anti-Life Equation can give any being the power to dominate the will of all sentient and sapient races and alter the reality, space, time, matter and anti-matter at the cosmic level. Mister Miracle proved to be powerful enough to fight Superman and Orion together.

The New 52
In The New 52 rebooted DC continuity, Mister Miracle retains the status of a New God and has been reborn more powerful than before. Mister Miracle is able to lift at least 50 tons. He is shown to have a high level of invulnerability; enduring space's rigors, surviving the explosion of three "Boom Spheres", resisting attacks of powerful beings such as Darkseid. His combined reflexes, speed and agility make him able to dodge almost any attack, even from two Apokalitian assassins, as he did with Lashina and Kanto. In addition, Mister Miracle has a limited healing factor and a great variety of mental tricks that allow him to break free of psychic influence. Mister Miracle is still a super escape artist and an expert combatant, successfully defeating Fury, Wonder Woman's daughter.

Equipment

 * Mother Box: The Mother Box can access the energy of the Source for various effects; it can change the gravitational constant of an area, transfer energy from one place to another, sense danger, sense of life, create force fields, transmute matter, absorb or project powerful shock blasts, create electro-webs of atoms, control the mental state of a being, communicate telepathically with a host or other life form, manipulate the life-force of a host to sustain it past fatal injuries, teletransportation, open and close Boom Tubes, and more.
 * Costume: Mister Miracle's costume is magnetically sealed and provides limited protection from damage and fire. It contains numerous hidden pockets. Each glove and boot has a pocket and the slim utility belt contains half a dozen more. A secret pocket on the upper right arm hides his Mother Box.
 * Mask: Contains circuitry for his Mother Box and a life support unit. The circuits let Scott use his Mother Box hands free. The life support system lets him survive in hostile environments.
 * Gloves: Have wide cuffs that hold Scott's multi-cube and assorted picks. In addition, the gloves can fire concussive blasts and generate enormous electric power, and contain a fingertip laser for fine welding or burning. His hidden circuits have the ability to create fission blasts and mini shockwaves.
 * Boots: Contain laser-jets capable of burning almost any surface.
 * Cape: Is made of a memory fibroid from New Genesis. Scott's Mother Box can transmute the cape into a cocoon that can withstand a sizable explosion. This can only be done once. The transmutation is not permanent and destroys the cape.
 * Aero Discs: Thin metal plates about a foot across. The New Gods use them for personal travel. They can reach speeds of 250 mph. Scott has modified his discs considerably for battle. They can be attached to the forearms to use them as shields or blades.
 * Multi-Cube: A peripheral device for Mister Miracle's Mother Box. The cube was designed by Mister Miracle to use the transmutation power of the Mother Box to create a number of preset mechanisms in its interior. All of these functions are much easier to perform than improvised transmutation. They can be activated in stressful situations. The cube is small enough to be hidden in the palm of the hand. The multi-cube is not sentient but is still capable of interpreting complex commands and recording data. The multi-cube can fly under its own power and follow the mental commands of Mister Miracle. The cube can use the transmuting power of the Mother Box to create several hundred feet of swing line. Besides the cable, the cube can produce a smoke screen or fire suppression foam. The simplest use of the cube is to generate light effects. The cube can create lifelike holograms, a blinding flash or a laser capable of cutting through a steel cable or handcuff links. In hologram mode the cube can record extended scenes or make a complete holographic recording. It can then manipulate the playback to simulate the subject in motion. The cube can emit a powerful sonic beam that can spring locks or shatter a brick wall. The sound blast can stun an unprotected human.

Other versions

 * An alternate timeline version of Mister Miracle appears in Kingdom Come.
 * An alternate universe version of Mister Miracle who became Metron's successor appears in Superman: The Dark Side.
 * An alternate universe version of Mister Miracle appears in JLA: The Nail. This version downloaded himself into Barda's Mother Box before being killed by DeSaad. The Box's circuitry is later bonded with a Green Lantern ring, allowing him to project his consciousness into an energy construct similar to his original body.

Television

 * Mister Miracle makes minor appearances in series set in the DC Animated Universe (DCAU). After making non-speaking cameo appearances in the Superman: The Animated Series episode "Apokolips...Now! Part II", the Batman Beyond two-part episode "The Call", and the Justice League episode "Twilight", he makes a speaking appearance in the Justice League Unlimited episode "The Ties That Bind", voiced by Ioan Gruffudd as an adult and Zack Shada as a child.
 * Mister Miracle appears in Batman: The Brave and the Bold, voiced by Yuri Lowenthal.
 * Mister Miracle appears in the Justice League Action episode "It'll Take a Miracle!", voiced by Roger Craig Smith.
 * Mister Miracle makes a cameo appearance in the Harley Quinn episode "Inner (Para) Demons", voiced by Andy Daly.

Film

 * An alternate universe incarnation of Mister Miracle makes a non-speaking appearance in a flashback in Justice League: Gods and Monsters.
 * Mister Miracle was meant to appear in a New Gods film, with director Ava DuVernay and comic writer Tom King attached to the production, before the project was cancelled in April 2021.

Video games

 * Mister Miracle appears in DC Universe Online via the "Halls of Power" DLC trilogy.
 * Mister Miracle appears as a character summon in Scribblenauts Unmasked: A DC Comics Adventure.
 * Mister Miracle appears as a playable character in Lego DC Super-Villains, voiced again by Roger Craig Smith.

Collected editions

 * Jack Kirby's Mister Miracle: Super Escape Artist collects Mr Miracle #1–10, 256 pages, September 1998, ISBN 978-1563894572
 * Jack Kirby's Fourth World: Featuring Mister Miracle collects Mr Miracle #11–18, 187 pages, July 2001, ISBN 978-1563897238
 * Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus
 * Volume 1 collects Forever People #1–3, Mister Miracle #1–3, The New Gods #1–3, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #133–139, 396 pages, May 2007, ISBN 978-1401213442 (hardcover); December 2011, ISBN 978-1401232412 (paperback)
 * Volume 2 collects Forever People #4–6, Mister Miracle #4–6, The New Gods #4–6, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #141–145, 396 pages, August 2007, ISBN 978-1401213572 (hardcover); April 2012, ISBN 978-1401234409 (paperback)
 * Volume 3 collects Forever People #7–10, Mister Miracle #7–9, The New Gods #7–10, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #146–148, 396 pages, November 2007, ISBN 978-1401214852 (hardcover); August 2012, ISBN 978-1401235352 (paperback)
 * Volume 4 collects Forever People #11; Mister Miracle #10–18; The New Gods #11; "Even Gods Must Die" from The New Gods vol. 2 #6; DC Graphic Novel #4: "The Hunger Dogs"; "On the Road to Armagetto!" (previously unpublished), 424 pages, March 2008, ISBN 978-1401215835 (hardcover); December 2012, ISBN 978-1401237462 (paperback)
 * Mister Miracle by Steve Englehart and Steve Gerber collects Mister Miracle #19–25, 216 pages, March 2020, ISBN 978-1779500793

Awards
The Mister Miracle series plus Forever People, New Gods, and Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen earned Jack Kirby the 1971 Shazam Award for Special Achievement by an Individual in the comic industry.

The Mister Miracle series by Tom King and Mitch Gerads won the 2019 Eisner Award for Best Limited Series.

title: Mister Miracle


text:
Talk:Life in the Freezer

Spoiler
Does a documentary really need a spoiler msg? Niteowlneils 00:29, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Expanded article
In line with my efforts on the three preceding Attenborough articles, Life on Earth, The Living Planet and The Trials of Life, I have started to expand this article. I realise that nowhere near as much work is required on the episode summaries, but I would like to either lengthen or shorten them to give each a consistent appearance (eight lines on a 1280 x 1024 monitor) as per the other articles. (I don't intend to remove the pictures.) I hope this is okay. Chris 42 23:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Images
Do we really need two fair use images from the documentary? The one of the seal should be enough I think. There's nothing spectacular about the emperor penguins one, and we could add one or two free content pictures to go with the two fair use ones (the second being the DVD cover). Richard001 (talk) 22:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I have removed the penguin photo; I don't think it would ever make FA with that many fair use claims. The one showing filming is good and I have moved it to the 'background' section, leaving room for some free use images which I will probably add myself. Richard001 (talk) 23:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Life in the Freezer


text:
User talk:Trainer~enwiki

Hello Trainer, welcome to Wikipedia.

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Again, welcome! Chris Roy 00:30, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
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Renamed
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title: User talk:Trainer~enwiki


text:
User talk:Ganymead

(briefly returned as User:Empidonax, then left)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter
Delivered on 20:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC). SatyrBot 21:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter
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Notice of Inactivity
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Nomination of Arizona Theatre Company for deletion
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Wiki Loves Pride!
 You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Wiki Loves Pride 2016
As a participant of WikiProject LGBT studies, you are invited to participate in the third annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign, which runs through the month of June. The purpose of the campaign is to create and improve content related to LGBT culture and history. How can you help?
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Looking for topics? The Tasks page, which you are welcome to update, offers some ideas and wanted articles.

This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. The group's mission is to develop LGBT-related content across all Wikimedia projects, in all languages. Visit the affiliate's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome! If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:19, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

File:Marie Dressler comic photo.JPG needs authorship information
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Proposed deletion of File:Lewis Marley.jpg

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Category:Theatre in the United States has been nominated for discussion
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File source problem with File:Marie Dressler comic photo.JPG
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Arden Theatre Company (Stockton-on-Tees) moved to draftspace
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Your draft article, Draft:Arden Theatre Company (Stockton-on-Tees)

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"Narvi (Middle-earth)" listed at Redirects for discussion
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title: User talk:Ganymead


text:
Tractography

In neuroscience, tractography is a 3D modeling technique used to visually represent nerve tracts using data collected by diffusion MRI. It uses special techniques of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and computer-based diffusion MRI. The results are presented in two- and three-dimensional images called tractograms.

In addition to the long tracts that connect the brain to the rest of the body, there are complicated neural circuits formed by short connections among different cortical and subcortical regions. The existence of these tracts and circuits has been revealed by histochemistry and biological techniques on post-mortem specimens. Nerve tracts are not identifiable by direct exam, CT, or MRI scans. This difficulty explains the paucity of their description in neuroanatomy atlases and the poor understanding of their functions.

The most advanced tractography algorithm can produce 90% of the ground truth bundles, but it still contains a substantial amount of invalid results.

MRI technique

Tractography is performed using data from diffusion MRI. The free water diffusion is termed "isotropic" diffusion. If the water diffuses in a medium with barriers, the diffusion will be uneven, which is termed anisotropic diffusion. In such a case, the relative mobility of the molecules from the origin has a shape different from a sphere. This shape is often modeled as an ellipsoid, and the technique is then called diffusion tensor imaging. Barriers can be many things: cell membranes, axons, myelin, etc.; but in white matter the principal barrier is the myelin sheath of axons. Bundles of axons provide a barrier to perpendicular diffusion and a path for parallel diffusion along the orientation of the fibers.

Anisotropic diffusion is expected to be increased in areas of high mature axonal order. Conditions where the myelin or the structure of the axon are disrupted, such as trauma, tumors, and inflammation reduce anisotropy, as the barriers are affected by destruction or disorganization.

Anisotropy is measured in several ways. One way is by a ratio called fractional anisotropy (FA). An FA of 0 corresponds to a perfect sphere, whereas 1 is an ideal linear diffusion. Few regions have FA larger than 0.90. The number gives information about how aspherical the diffusion is but says nothing of the direction.

Each anisotropy is linked to an orientation of the predominant axis (predominant direction of the diffusion). Post-processing programs are able to extract this directional information.

This additional information is difficult to represent on 2D grey-scaled images. To overcome this problem, a color code is introduced. Basic colors can tell the observer how the fibers are oriented in a 3D coordinate system, this is termed an "anisotropic map". The software could encode the colors in this way:
 * Red indicates directions in the X axis: right to left or left to right.
 * Green indicates directions in the Y axis: posterior to anterior or from anterior to posterior.
 * Blue indicates directions in the Z axis: inferior to superior or vice versa.

The technique is unable to discriminate the "positive" or "negative" direction in the same axis.

Mathematics
Using diffusion tensor MRI, one can measure the apparent diffusion coefficient at each voxel in the image, and after multilinear regression across multiple images, the whole diffusion tensor can be reconstructed.

Suppose there is a fiber tract of interest in the sample. Following the Frenet–Serret formulas, we can formulate the space-path of the fiber tract as a parameterized curve:

 * $$ \frac{d\mathbf{r}(s)}{ds} = \mathbf{T}(s), $$

where $$\mathbf{T}(s)$$ is the tangent vector of the curve. The reconstructed diffusion tensor $$ D $$ can be treated as a matrix, and we can compute its eigenvalues $$ \lambda_1, \lambda_2, \lambda_3 $$ and eigenvectors $$ \mathbf{u}_1, \mathbf{u}_2, \mathbf{u}_3 $$. By equating the eigenvector corresponding to the largest eigenvalue with the direction of the curve:

 * $$ \frac{d\mathbf{r}(s)}{ds} = \mathbf{u}_1(\mathbf{r}(s)) $$

we can solve for $$ \mathbf{r}(s) $$ given the data for $$ \mathbf{u}_1(s) $$. This can be done using numerical integration, e.g., using Runge–Kutta, and by interpolating the principal eigenvectors.

title: Tractography


text:
Vancouver Quadra

Vancouver Quadra is a federal electoral district in the Metro Vancouver region of British Columbia, Canada. It has been represented in the House of Commons of Canada since 1949. The constituency bears the name of the Spanish explorer who surveyed the area in 1775, Juan Francisco de la Bodega y Quadra. Since 2007, the riding has been represented by Liberal MP Joyce Murray, who has served in the 29th ministry under Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau.

Within the boundaries of this riding are the University of British Columbia and the western portions of the affluent West Side of Vancouver. Voters within Vancouver Quadra have tended to elect centrist candidates, which is an exception to the province as a whole where politics has tended to be more polarized. Though the Liberals have held the seat since 1984, MPs tend to be on the right wing of the party. For example, the current MP, Joyce Murray, was previously a cabinet minister in the centre-right British Columbia Liberal Party, which is unaffiliated with the federal Liberal party and attracts the vast majority of voters who vote for the Conservative Party of Canada in federal elections.

Demographics
This is the sixth wealthiest riding in Canada, with an average family income of over $145,000. As of 2006, this riding had 37% immigrants, most of whom are Chinese-Canadians. The province's largest university, the University of British Columbia, is situated in this riding. The major employer is the professional, scientific and technical service sector. The unemployment rate is 5.2%. Nearly every single-family house in this riding is worth over a million dollars; the median house value is over 2 million dollars.

The Vancouver Quadra riding has a very high level of educational attainment; it has the highest percentage of people with a university certificate or degree in all of Canada (53.1%) and also tops the following educational attainment sub-categories:

 * Earned doctorate: 4.7%
 * Degree in medicine, dentistry, veterinary medicine or optometry: 2.5%
 * Bachelor's degree: 27.4%

According to the 2016 Canadian census:

Languages: 66.0% English, 1.6% French, 31.3% other, 1.1% multiple languages

Religions: 27.9% Protestant, 16.3% Catholic, 4.5% Buddhist, 4.2% Other Christian, 3.8% Jewish, 2.4% Christian Orthodox, 1.1% Muslim, 38.5% no religious affiliation

Average income: $46,991

Geography
The district includes the parts of the West Side of Vancouver and the University of British Columbia Endowment Lands.

History
The electoral district was created in 1947 from Vancouver East and Vancouver South ridings. It was a swing riding for most of its first four decades. However, in 1984, John Turner, then Prime Minister, unseated Progressive Conservative incumbent Bill Clarke even as Turner's Liberals suffered what was then the biggest seat loss in Canadian history. It was one of only two Liberal-held seats west of Ontario. The seat has stayed in Liberal hands ever since.

The 2012 federal electoral boundaries redistribution concluded that the electoral boundaries of Vancouver Quadra should be adjusted, and a modified electoral district of the same name will be contested in future elections. The redefined Vancouver Quadra loses a portion of its current territory east of the Arbutus Corridor to the new district of Vancouver Granville. These new boundaries were legally defined in the 2013 representation order, which came into effect upon the call of the 42nd Canadian federal election, scheduled for October 2015.

Members of Parliament
This riding has elected the following members of Parliament:

Current member of Parliament
Its member of Parliament (MP) is Joyce Murray (Liberal), a former British Columbia cabinet minister and provincial Member of the Legislative Assembly. She was first elected in a March 2008 by-election, by a small margin. Murray was re-elected in the general elections of 2008, 2011 and 2015 with larger margins. She was again re-elected in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections, albeit by reduced margins.

title: Vancouver Quadra