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Talk:France–United States relations/Archive 1

Early untitled discussion
Thanks 172! Large parts of this article are doubled at Anti-French sentiment in the United States, how should we deal with this? Get-back-world-respect 01:07, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
 * This article focuses more on tracing the diplomatic and political relations between the two great powers, using more of an international relations and a historical approach. Perhaps the other article, in contrast, could chronicle cultural tensions (bringing up things like the "freedom fries" episode), with more of a sociological approach. I'm afraid of touching the anti-French sentiment article, though. -- (: 172 02:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

French foreign minister Dominique de Villepin emerged as a prominent critic of The George W. Bush administration's policies in Iraq. I think you mean policies about Iraq? Marc Mongenet 20:58, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Part of page missing
I left the page, came back to it a few minutes later, and now everything before Charles de Gaulle's presidency is gone. Anyone know what's going on?

Now the missing part is back again. Wierd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.150.9 (talk) 22:34, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Too negative?
While I wouldn't go so far as to say NPOV, this article does seem to be overwhelming negative. Correct me if I’m wrong but I have always been under the impression that France was traditionally the US’s closest European partner until the early 20th century. Unfortunately I don’t know enough about this topic to contribute wholesale but I have noticed that there’s no mention of the American Revolution’s impact on French politics or cultural (thinking of jazz here) exchanges.

Agreed. I'd actually call it factually inaccurate. This article seems to mention every small dispute, inflating it to ridiculous proportions, and to largely ignore the fact that these two countries were always like-minded allies. Franco-American relations are rather good even today. One point of disagreement (Irak) does not invalidate the fact that they agree on everything else, no matter what public sentiment might be.

 * surprised? what can you expect from a bunch of fat stupid pigs? Cliché Online 11:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * This article is a disgrace at present. I have added it to my to do list :) 193.132.242.1 16:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. This article seems to have been written by an intelligent personn, subtle enough to distilate smoothly a general feeling of "there-were-always-bad-relations-between-France-and-the-USA" -mind my words, I'm not sure it was a conscious action-, and moreover making France responsible for it (if you look closer, you can't help feeling France is really an annoying country, whereas the US where kind and demanding nothing most of the times).

I also agree with the "inflating" thing. On the other hand, you don't even mention tensions over laws passed by the US like the super301 in the 80s, for instance -or the other way round, France defending its "cultural exception", or both countries querreling over the other's over-subventionned agricultures and blaming the other- ... And since when the US rose to a big power before the 1st world war, to such proportions that the balance in the relationship was inversed ? It rose all right, but not to this level, London was the capital city of the world and Paris the second, meaning France was certainly not below the US before the first world war...

Franco-american's relationship has always been special, but rather good. If you except the US close ties to the UK -but suffering from the dependent past-, we could say France was the US first partner in europe in terms of importance... (why not even bother mentionning the famous "La Fayette nous voici" of the US soldiers coming to help during the first world war ? it is, if even ever needed, a good proof that from the US independance on to the first world war -at least-, this relationship was more in the bright side than in the other, don't you think ?)

So, if I may, I'd like to make two suggestions : the first one, take a better look at history books, please. The second one, try more impartiality, and don't describe yesterday at the light of Iraq's tensions, it's a bit pathetic and unfair -even though it's without the slightest doubt more subtle here than in Murdoch's crap-.

Wikipedia is a marvellous chance for Mankind to pass on, share and grant access to knowledge. Don't you think it's a shame if this knowledge is biased, even slightly ? (if I'm not making myself clear, let me explain with an inflated exemple : what if wikipedia was a project of China and every article about Tibet was written by Pekin's authorities ? would you feel it's fair to our children ? Well, I don't. And I'm far from being alone.)

I'll be back to see what's been going on soon... Cordially, DILWIZHEL

Indochina
The article previously said that basically the US discouraged France from waging colonial wars in Indochina. To the best of my knowledge, the United States pushed France to fight this war, funded it, and provided it with weaponry in order to fight this war, which was seen as a war against Communism. (Perhaps, at the same time, it publicly disapproved of it, I don't know.)

I understand that many Americans think that France "dragged" the US into the Vietnam War, but apparently reality is more complex than that. David.Monniaux 17:04, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

 * the us gave money to the french to fight communism in indochina, they sent CIA pilots to support the bessieged garrison at dien bien phu (secret CAT ops). Cliché Online 11:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection
I have semi-protected the article due to vandalism. If another administrator feels that this is unwise, they are free to remove the protection at any time. Nacon kantari  e |t||c|m 00:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've unprotected for now... these situations are a bit tricky. Let's see what happens. --W.marsh 22:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Reasons for not promoting
This is a very promising article but it has not been promoted to the status of good article because:

 * 1) It lacks sufficient references and/or citations.
 * 2) It doesn't adequately describe the circumstances leading to the "Quasi-War" namely that "the United States refused to pay back its debt and revoked its agreements with France, arguing that these had been with the French monarchy and that their obligations were null after the change of regime in France."
 * 3) It treats the post-war years as a single block. It would be better to subdivide this section (some additional dates could also be used for the later paragraphs).

Please feel free to resubmit this article when these concerns are addressed.

Cedars 07:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

M/F!!
you scumbags forgot to mention why france's government was against the us-led invasion of irak (mass destruction lies in us & uk), you forgot to mention now the antiwar sentiment in us & uk (e.g. the french were right) and on top of this you forgot to mention france's support in afghanistan, with some french troops dead there for the sake of a bunch of swines like you. Cliché Online 11:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I can agree with some of the arguments you present, but your way of presenting them has no place on Wikipedia. Calling other users pigs, swines or scumbags is totally unacceptable and leads to no good. That is the kind of language used in the Rupert Murdoch media about the French and pretty much everyone who does not share the Murdoch-agenda, but there is absolutely no reason to sink to the level of Fox News or the New York Post here. I suggest that you remove your insults, refrain from using insults in the future and instead contribute to Wikipedia in a constructive way. JdeJ 19:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Fox News doesn't talk like that and we both know it. Your lies bring you down to cliche's level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.37.228.98 (talk) 16:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

siege of porktown
your map lacks all outremer french territories, ignorant pigs never heard about outremer and think france is only a metropole. Cliché Online 11:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Once again, please learn to conduct yourself in a civil manner! Besides, the map is correct and includes the outremer territories, you can see New Caledonia, Reunion and French Guiana. Other areas are too small to be visible on the map. And even if the map would have been wrong, it would not have justifies the language you use. JdeJ 19:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sarkozy
It would be nice if it had a little information about the relations after Sarko got elected. It's been a wile now... Contralya 13:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

 * After this speech, it would seem that relations more than just 'appear' to be improving: Contralya (talk) 21:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I had to delete the part about "Sarko the American" which is an urban legend created by Sarkozy himself. Nobody in France refers to him as "Sarko the American" nor is it branded as an insult by the left. Simply no one in France speaks of Sarkozy as "The American" save to mock his preposterous and childish whim to appear on par with leaders of international stature. It was just another demagogic trick he set up to please our American friends. Simply don't be mistaken and don't believe the French care a fig about his purported taste for all things American. Sarkozy simply is a total ignoramus particularly when it comes to anything even remotely associated with culture. Flocon 07:12, 1 September 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.22.116.162 (talk)

Update
This does NOT adress the Rapprochement after Sarko was elected. France is increasing involvement with NATO, relations with the U.S. are SUBSTANTIALLY better, with France supporting the united states with issues like Iran sanctions. The policy of using the EU mainly as a means of limiting U.S. influence seems to of ended in favor of partnership. I do not need sources to prove these things. You have to have your head buried in the sand not to notice these changes in the relationship. Just look at the speech Sarko gave to congress. Contralya (talk) 21:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Even though your message was posted last March, I have to agree with you. The article still seems to suggest that relations are cold. The relations have improved a lot, especially since the election of U.S. President Obama, and there's been a lot of dialogue between the two countries lately. If I can find any appropriate sources to confirm this I'll add it in. Aurora30 (talk) 18:01, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

YOU HAVE COMPLETELY IGNORED THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
Don't you think you owe it to the approx 292,000 Americans that died in World War II to put in a section on Franco-AmericanRelations during WWII???Johncheverly 22:08, 30 May 2012 (UTC)johncheverly@gmail.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johncheverly (talk • contribs)


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User talk:KimGamma

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Here are some links I find useful

 * Policy Library
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Neutral point of view
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~.

Cheers, Sam [Spade] 01:07, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:KimGamma


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Cynthia Voigt

Cynthia Voigt (born February 25, 1942) is an American writer of books for young adults dealing with various topics such as adventure, mystery, racism and child abuse. Her first book in the Tillerman family series, Homecoming, was nominated for several international prizes and adapted as a 1996 film. Her novel Dicey's Song won the 1983 Newbery Medal.

Voigt received the Margaret Edwards Award from the American Library Association in 1995 recognizing her contribution in writing for teens.

Life
Cynthia Voigt was born February 25, 1942, in Boston, Massachusetts. She graduated from Smith College in Massachusetts and worked in advertising in New York City. In 1964, she married and moved to Santa Fe, New Mexico, where she started teaching. She taught second grade (and one high school English class) at the Key School in Annapolis, Maryland, from 1966 to 1971. She divorced in 1972, and taught high school English in Glen Burnie, Maryland. She began writing again and remarried in 1974, to Walter Voigt, who taught classical Greek at The Key School, where she returned to teach high school English again. After winning the Newbery Medal for Dicey's Song, she left teaching to write full-time and moved to Deer Isle, Maine. She is the mother of two children, Peter and Jessica.

Awards and honors
The ALA Margaret Edwards Award recognizes one writer and a particular body of work for "significant and lasting contribution to young adult literature". Voigt won the annual award in 1995, citing seven books published from 1981 to 1986: Homecoming, Dicey's Song, A Solitary Blue, Building Blocks, The Runner, Jackaroo, and Izzy, Willy-Nilly(‡). According to the YA librarians, her "work for young adults over a period of years has provided an authentic voice ... Voigt's intense character studies introduce young adults to genuine people often isolated from society. While her characters may be orphaned, abandoned, disabled, their strength to overcome adversity is extraordinary."

She has won several awards for particular works, too.
 * Dicey's Song: Newbery Medal 1983
 * The Callender Papers: Edgar Allan Poe Award Young Adult category 1984
 * The Runner: Deutscher Jugendliteraturpreis Non-fiction book 1989
 * On Fortune's Wheel: ALA Best Books for Young Adults
 * A Solitary Blue: Newbery Honor Book 1984; Phoenix Award Honor Book 2003

Tillerman Cycle
The Tillerman Cycle follows the struggles of the eponymous family, beginning with Homecoming, in which one generation of Tillerman children is abandoned by their mother. The young four-some must find their way to their estranged grandmother, under the leadership of thirteen-year-old Dicey, the eldest sibling and main character of the series. Four of the books are, however, centered on other characters--The Runner follows Dicey's uncle, Bullet. Come a Stranger and A Solitary Blue cover some of the same territory as Dicey's Song from the perspectives of Mina and Jeff, respectively, who are two of Dicey's friends. Sons from Afar focuses on Dicey's brothers, James and Sammy. Throughout Voigt's novels, she taps into the emotional aspects of the struggles of the Tillerman children, as well as the other protagonists of her novels, making the Tillerman cycle a series of books appropriate for all ages.

 * 1981 Homecoming ‡
 * 1982 Dicey's Song ‡
 * 1983 A Solitary Blue ‡
 * 1985 The Runner ‡
 * 1986 Come a Stranger
 * 1987 Sons from Afar
 * 1989 Seventeen Against the Dealer

(‡) The first four Tillerman books were among seven cited when Voigt won the 1995 Edwards Award.

Kingdom series
The vast majority of Voigt's work is marked by a contemporary or historical setting and a realistic style. The "Kingdom" books break from the former, being set in an unspecified but apparently invented region in a circa-medieval period of historical development. While the world is invented, however, it remains realistic in its construction, and resembles in most respects a historically faithful period setting, rather than a sword and sorcerer fairyland. What myths are present in the Kingdom are usually seen to have historical basis; the first novel, Jackaroo, deals with such a myth—a Robin Hood-like figure who is really just an archetype whose guise is donned by various nobles and commoners through the years.

The Kingdom books are connected by history and geography rather than the lifespan of any one character or family; though characters in later novels are sometimes descended from characters in earlier novels, their adventures are usually the stuff of myth or distant memory.

In recent years, the series was repackaged and the books were released under new titles: The Tale of Gwyn (previously published as Jackaroo), The Tale of Birle (previously published as On Fortune's Wheel), The Tale of Oriel (previously published as The Wings of a Falcon), and The Tale of Elske (previously published as Elske).

 * 1985 Jackaroo ‡
 * 1990 On Fortune's Wheel
 * 1993 The Wings of a Falcon
 * 1999 Elske

Rosie series

 * 1986 Stories about Rosie
 * 2003 Good Morning Rosie

Bad Girls series

 * 1996 Bad Girls
 * 1997 ''Bad, Badder, Baddest"
 * 2000 It's Not Easy Being Bad
 * 2001 "Born to be bad"
 * 2002 Bad Girls in Love (Voigt Novel)
 * 2003
 * 2006 Bad Girls, Bad Girls, Whatcha Gonna Do?

Davis Farm series

 * 2005 Angus and Sadie
 * 2011 Young Fredle
 * 2018 Toaff’s Way

Mister Max series

 * 2013 Mister Max: The Book of Lost Things: Mister Max 1
 * 2014 Mister Max: The Book of Secrets: Mister Max 2
 * 2015 Mister Max: The Book of Kings: Mister Max 3

Other books

 * 1982 Tell Me If the Lovers Are Losers
 * 1983 Callender Papers
 * 1984 Building Blocks ‡
 * 1986 Izzy, Willy-Nilly ‡
 * 1988 Shore Writers' Sampler II
 * 1988 Tree by Leaf
 * 1991 Glass Mountain
 * 1991 The Vandemark Mummy
 * 1992 David and Jonathan
 * 1992 Orfe
 * 1994 When She Hollers
 * 2016 Teddy & Co.
 * 2017 By Any Name

Short stories

 * 2011 "The Stepsister" included in the young adult anthology What You Wish For

title: Cynthia Voigt


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Regions of Kazakhstan

Kazakhstan is divided into 17 regions (облыстар; облыс; области;  область). The regions are further subdivided into districts (аудандар; аудан; районы;  район). Three cities, Almaty, Shymkent, and the capital city Astana, do not belong to their surrounding regions.

On 16 March 2022, Kazakh President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev announced that three new regions would be created. Abai Region was created from East Kazakhstan Region with its capital in Semey. Ulytau Region was created from Karaganda Region with its capital in Jezkazgan. Jetisu Region was created from Almaty Region with its capital in Taldykorgan; Almaty Region's capital was moved from Taldykorgan to Qonayev.

Demographic statistics
In 2022, three new regions were created - Abai (from part of East Kazakhstan), Jetisu (from part of Almaty Region) and Ulytau (from part of Karaganda Region). In the following table, the 2009 population totals have been amended to reflect the population in the new or altered regions.

Former administrative boundaries
Over the last 60 years, both the distribution and names of regions of Kazakhstan have changed considerably. Major changes were several fusions and splits between Guryev and Mangystau, Karaganda and Dzhezkazgan, Almaty and Taldy-Kurgan, East Kazakhstan and Semipalatinsk and Kostanay, Turgay and Tselinograd, respectively. Changes in region names were often in line with the renaming of cities, such as in the case of Alma-Ata/Almaty. After the administrative reform in 1997, the last change happened since then took place in 1999, when parts of North Kazakhstan that originally belonged to Kokshetau region became part of Akmola. The 1990s merges were in order to dilute the Russian population in the resulting region and to avoid having regions where Russians form a majority.

title: Regions of Kazakhstan


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Governorates of Jordan

Jordan is divided into twelve historical regions (almanatiq altaarikhia), further subdivided into districts (liwa), and often into sub-districts (qada).

1994 reform
In 1994, four new governorates were created as part of the administrative divisions system of the Ministry of Interior: Jerash, Ajloun, Madaba and Aqaba. Jerash Governorate and Ajloun Governorate were split from Irbid Governorate, Madaba Governorate was split from Amman Governorate and Aqaba Governorate was split from Ma'an Governorate.

Geographical regions vs. metropolitan areas
Geographically, the governorates of Jordan are located in one of three regions (aqalim): the North Region, Central Region and the South Region. The three geographical regions are not distributed by area or populations, but rather by geographical connectivity and distance among the population centres. The South Region is separated from the Central Region by the Mountains of Moab in Karak Governorate. The population centres of the Central and North Region are separated geographically by the mountains of Jerash Governorate.

Socially, the population centres of Amman, Salt, Zarqa and Madaba form together one large metropolitan area in which business interactions in these cities are under the influence of Amman, while the cities of Jerash, Ajloun, and Mafraq are mostly under the influence of the city of Irbid.

title: Governorates of Jordan


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Trinovantum

Trinovantum is the name in medieval British legend that was given to London, according to Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, when it was founded by the exiled Trojan Brutus, who called it Troia Nova ("New Troy"), which was gradually corrupted to Trinovantum. The legend says that it was later rebuilt by King Lud, who named it Caer Lud ("Lud's Fort") after himself and that the name became corrupted to Kaer Llundain and finally London. The legend is part of the Matter of Britain. The name Trinovantum derives from the Iron Age tribe of the Trinovantes, who lived in Essex, Suffolk and part of Greater London and are mentioned by Julius Caesar in his account of his expeditions to Britain in 55 and 54 BC. In a later account of those expeditions by Orosius, they are referred to as civitas Trinovantum, "the nation of the Trinovantes", with Trinovantum in this case being in the genitive plural. However, as civitas can also mean "city" and Latin neuter nouns often end in -um in the nominative singular, this phrase was misinterpreted by Geoffrey or his sources as "the city Trinovantum".

In Roman times, the city was known by the name Londinium, which appears to be cognate with Llundain and London.

title: Trinovantum


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User:Camipco

Hi this is me

My name is Jamie

I don't have anything to say here, I just don't like the link being red ;/

Cheers

futbolista (talk) 04:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC) Hello, my name is Alex, I´m from Cuba, I just wanted to say hi, so : Hi. It´d be great if you answered back to me, I just like having friends from overseas, there are so many things I can learn that way. Take, care, bye my talk page is named Aftus

Hello, Jamie, this is me, Aftus, I just read the message you left me on my talkpage. When did your father visit Cuba?, what cities did he visit? This is a nice country, the landscape I mean, that´s why all the people that come here from other countries love Cuba, but if they had to live here 24/7, all 365 days of the year, I´m pretty sure their opinion about this country would change. As a visitor, everybody seems to love it, totally different situation if they lived here, I´m telling you. Well, anyway, I hope you can answer me back on my talkpage, I´ll check it out everyday. Ohh, by the way, Jamie is a girl or a boy name?, I´m sorry I have to ask, I hope you don´t mind, well, take care, tell me about yourself, what do you do, where do you live, etc.. bye

title: User:Camipco


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Samantha Carter

Dr. Samantha "Sam" Carter, USAF is a fictional character in the Canadian–American military science fiction Stargate franchise. Played by Amanda Tapping, she appears in all three shows in the franchise: Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and Stargate Universe. She was a main character in all ten seasons of Stargate SG-1 (1997–2007). Following a recurring role in Stargate Atlantis for three seasons (2004–07), Carter became a main character in Season 4 of Atlantis (2007–08), and also appeared in the 2008 direct-to-DVD SG-1 films Stargate: The Ark of Truth and Stargate: Continuum. Amanda Tapping accepted a starring role in Sanctuary and appears in only the first and last episodes in Season 5 of Atlantis (2008–09). Carter also appears in two episodes of Season 1 of Stargate Universe.

Captain Samantha Carter first appears in "Children of the Gods", the pilot episode of Stargate SG-1, as a United States Air Force captain who joined the fictional SG-1 team under the command of Colonel Jack O'Neill. After being promoted to major in Season 3, Carter remains O'Neill's second-in-command until her promotion to lieutenant colonel early in Season 8, at which point she assumes command of the SG-1 team and O'Neill is promoted to brigadier general in order to lead Stargate Command. Between Seasons 8 and 9 of SG-1, following the defeat of the Replicators and downfall of the Goa'uld system lords, she accepts a position as Head of the Stargate Research and Development Program, based in Nevada. She is engaged in deep-space research when the Ori emerge. Upon her return to Earth, she is reassigned to SG-1, now under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Cameron Mitchell. Following the defeat of the Ori in Stargate: The Ark of Truth, Carter is promoted to full colonel and appointed as commander of the Atlantis expedition early in Season 4 of Atlantis. Carter is later given command of the Daedalus-class ship, the George Hammond.

Unofficially in the online game Stargate: Resistance, it is implied by visual screenshots showing a general's office with her name on the desk label that she eventually succeeds Major General Hank Landry as commander of the SGC, implying an offscreen (non-canonical) promotion to brigadier general.

Overall, Carter is the character with the most appearances across the Stargate franchise, though ranking as second-most – behind Teal'c – in the series Stargate SG-1.

Character arc in Stargate SG-1
Before the present-time events of Stargate SG-1, Samantha Carter worked at the Pentagon for several years, trying to get the Stargate operational. She has a Ph.D. in theoretical astrophysics and "logged over 100 hours in enemy airspace" during the Gulf War. She is the daughter of Major General Jacob Carter, and has a brother named Mark. Her mother died in a car accident when she was a teenager.

Holding the rank of captain, Samantha Carter joins the SG-1 team in the pilot episode, "Children of the Gods". She comes under the temporary control of the Tok'ra Jolinar in season 2 and retains many of her memories, leading to an alliance with the Tok'ra against the Goa'uld. Carter's brief merging with Jolinar also assists her in detecting a Goa'uld presence and using certain Goa'uld technology. Carter is promoted to the rank of major early in season 3. When an advanced lie detector shows they are concealing something in early season 4, it forces Carter and her superior officer, Colonel Jack O'Neill, to admit that they care for one another "a lot more than [they're] supposed to". In Exodus (season 4), Carter uses a stargate to destroy a star by dialing the gate on P3W-451, the planet being consumed by a black hole (originally discovered in A Matter of Time), and launching the active stargate into the nearby star; the resulting imbalance in mass causes the star to go supernova and destroy Apophis's fleet.

Trapped on board the Earth ship Prometheus in season 7's "Grace", Carter realizes that her feelings for O'Neill stop her from exploring other romances. Two episodes later in Chimera, Carter begins dating her brother's friend Pete Shanahan, but Pete disrespects her privacy and the confidential nature of her work. Pete gaslights her and stalks her until she is forced to disclose her job to him. In the season 8 premiere, "New Order", Carter gets captured by a humanoid Replicator named Fifth she had first encountered in season 6's "Unnatural Selection". Fifth eventually releases her, but keeps a replicator copy of her, known commonly as 'RepliCarter'. Upon O'Neill's promotion to brigadier general in the same episode, he promotes her to lieutenant colonel. Carter assumes command of the SG-1 team, which includes the de-ascended Daniel Jackson, the alien Teal'c, and herself. Shortly after the death of her father in late season 8, Carter breaks up with Pete and goes fishing with Jack, Daniel, and Teal'c to celebrate the defeat of the System Lords.

Season 9 reveals that Carter left SG-1 to work at Area 51 after the collapse of the Goa'uld power structure. After Lieutenant Colonel Cameron Mitchell assumes command of SG-1, General O'Neill orders Carter to assist SG-1 on a mission concerning the new Ori threat. Carter officially rejoins SG-1 in the season 9 episode "Ex Deus Machina". Samantha Carter appears in the 2008 direct-to-DVD films Stargate: The Ark of Truth and Stargate: Continuum.

Character arc in Stargate Atlantis
Lieutenant Colonel Carter makes her first appearance in Stargate Atlantis at the end of its first season (airing in parallel to season 8 of Stargate SG-1), receiving a very brief data transmission from the Atlantis expedition to Earth. The Atlantis character Dr. Rodney McKay (David Hewlett) has a hallucination of Carter which enables him to survive while trapped in a sinking Puddle Jumper in season 2. Lieutenant Colonel Carter approaches McKay's sister Jeannie Miller with an offer to work for Stargate Command in season 3. At an unknown point after the end of the Ori conflict in Stargate SG-1, Carter is promoted to a "full bird" colonel and is transferred to the Midway space station to oversee the final stages of completion. The IOA appoints Carter as the new commander of the Atlantis expedition early in season 4 of Atlantis.

Carter finds the Atlantis command experience quite relaxed in terms of military protocol, but enjoys it nonetheless ("Midway"). True to her SG-1 heritage, she conducts herself bravely by actively taking part in missions ("Reunion", "Trio") and protecting and defending those under her command ("Be All My Sins Remember'd", "Search and Rescue"). Carter even builds a more amicable relationship with Dr. Rodney McKay, having put their past tensions aside, and clearly respects Lt. Colonel Sheppard's command and past accomplishments in the Pegasus Galaxy.

Carter is recalled to Earth at the end of the first episode of season five for a Tok'ra extraction ceremony concerning the final Ba'al clone (a ceremony witnessed in Stargate: Continuum), followed by an exhaustive first-year command review by the International Oversight Advisory (IOA). Upon arrival, however, Richard Woolsey informs her that the IOA has removed her from command, and that he will be replacing her. As of "Enemy at the Gate", she is the temporary SGC base commander while General Hank Landry is heading a task force based in Washington. After this assignment she is to be made commander of the new Daedalus Class (BC-304) battlecruiser, formerly known as the Phoenix, now named the George Hammond in memory of General George Hammond.

Stargate Universe
Carter is in command of the George Hammond when it ferries personnel from Earth to Icarus Base to witness the latest attempt to dial the ninth chevron. The Hammond attempts to fight off the assault on the base by a fleet of Goa'uld ships that Carter presumes belong to the Lucian Alliance. Although they are unsuccessful in preventing the destruction of the base, they are able to rescue most of the survivors stranded outside, including Colonel David Telford, who was to command the expedition to Destiny. She also appears later in season 1 where she is the officer in charge of the assault on the Lucian Alliance base.

Relationships
Over the course of the two shows, a number of men are in love with, infatuated with, or attracted to, Carter. This includes Jack O'Neill, the Tok'ra Martouf, Dr. Rodney McKay, Fifth, Orlin, Agent Malcolm Barrett, Narim, Pete Shanahan, Dr. Jay Felger, her former fiancé Jonas Hanson, and Joseph Faxon (her duplicitous husband of a possible future in Season 4, episode 16, "2010"). Many of these individuals have (presumably) since died, including: Martouf (and symbiote Lantash); Fifth; Narim; Hanson; and two alternate versions of Jack O'Neill. This has led many of the cast and crew of Stargate SG-1 to humorously nickname her character Samantha "the Black Widow" Carter.

Asked why the series never confirmed a relationship between Carter and O'Neill, producer Joseph Mallozzi stated in his blog, "The Sam/Jack relationship was fraught with complications, given that he was her commanding officer. Pursuing any sort of relationship would have been inappropriate for both and would only have really been possible late in the series after Jack's retirement. [...] Jack and Sam could have gotten together after Jack's retirement, but it was never made canon because, quite frankly, it wasn't my call. Still, despite the lack of official confirmation, it was only natural that they should get together after the events of Threads and, in my mind, they have been together ever since. An attempt to suggest as much in [Stargate Atlantis'] season 4's Trio, unfortunately, ended up on the cutting room floor when the episode ran long."

In season 9, episode 7, Sam catches up with Malcolm Barrett and tells him that she and Pete had broken up. He asks if she is single, and she responds, "not exactly."

When Carter joins the Atlantis expedition as commanding officer, a framed photo of O'Neill is seen on top of a box of her personal effects. A scene was cut from the Stargate Atlantis season 4 episode "Trio" in which Carter and Dr. Jennifer Keller discuss their love lives. When asked by Keller if she's seeing anyone, Carter initially avoids the question before admitting that "it's complicated" and that the man in question is in Washington D.C. but is going to retire soon. In episode 12, season 10, Samantha is shot and reveals to Mitchell that she has a file on her laptop with letters to people who she cares for in case she dies. The password is 'fishing,' an apparent reference to O'Neill.

Carmen Argenziano, the actor who plays Carter's father Jacob Carter, was asked in an interview who would be a good match for his on-screen daughter. He said:

I like Daniel Jackson. I felt that Daniel would have been the right choice because Daniel is well-educated, is intelligent, gentlemanly and he was everything that I envisioned that my daughter would end up with.

SG-1 leadership
Carter first assumes command of SG-1 in SG-1's season 2 episode "Spirits" when Jack O'Neill is in the infirmary injured. Carter takes over command from O'Neill as SG-1 leader at the end of season 7. Hammond had instructed Carter to relieve O'Neill of duty had she deemed him too unstable while under the influence of the Repository of the Ancients. O'Neill subsequently "quits" to avoid making Carter feel guilty. When Amanda Tapping was on maternity leave at the beginning of season 9, Cameron Mitchell was introduced as the leader of SG-1 who would bring the team back together. Following negative fan reactions to Carter's cancelled leadership within the team, Ben Browder noted the production difficulties that came with Amanda Tapping's maternity leave, and pointed out that new leaders are brought in routinely into units of the military. Tapping admitted to also have been "kind of put off" upon learning that someone else would lead SG-1, hoping that the producers would make SG-1 more of an ensemble team in season 10 by removing the patriarchal line of command. The writers eventually decided after an animated discussion during season 9 that Mitchell and Carter would co-command the team, although they left Mitchell in the official leadership position. Tapping considered the question of leadership in season 10 irrelevant; Mitchell cannot give orders to his team since he and Carter hold the same military rank, and Daniel and Teal'c are not members of the United States military.

Conceptual history
During the casting process of Stargate SG-1, the producers were looking for an actress who could portray a strong woman whom the audience would accept as a soldier. The character should have had combat training and have been in wars, but should also be a brilliant scientist and a beautiful woman. Amanda Tapping at first assumed that the show would put more emphasis on intellect, but found that it was an action-adventure scifi show where the characters often got physical. Tapping described Carter as a cross between Jack O'Neill and Daniel Jackson, and the conflict of her character whether to go the scientific route or with military protocol.

Amanda Tapping was part of the Stargate SG-1 main cast for all of the show's ten seasons. She did not appear in season 6's "Disclosure" or season 7's "Inauguration" except in clips from previous episodes and was completely absent from season 8's "Prometheus Unbound" and the season nine episodes "Avalon (Part 2)", "Origin", "The Ties That Bind" and "The Powers That Be" due to Tapping's maternity leave (she appeared briefly in "Avalon (Part 1)" to explain her absence); and season ten's "Bad Guys".

While Amanda Tapping was part of the main cast of Stargate SG-1, she made several cameo appearances in the first three seasons of Stargate Atlantis. Amanda Tapping became a member of the Atlantis main cast for 14 episodes of Season 4. She did not appear in "Travelers", "Missing", "Miller's Crossing", "This Mortal Coil", "Spoils of War" and "Harmony".

Tapping sat down with Robert C. Cooper at the beginning of Stargate SG-1's season 7 to discuss Carter's struggle with her demons and her life choices in regards to work and family. The events of "Grace" are left open for interpretation, both for the audience and the actors. Grace could be Sam's child within, her hopes and dreams for having a child, the child Sam left behind when she started her career as an astrophysicist, or Carter's potential future with a family. "Chimera" is an offshoot of what happened in "Grace", and the writers were trying to "dispel the black widow curse that Carter has, and also to open her up for more experiences and to flesh her out just a little bit more as a human being". Tapping felt out of her element doing these two episodes, as the flirty side of the character had not really been explored in the show until then. Also, Pete Shanahan does not die, which confuses Carter. According to Tapping, Carter is oblivious what lengths Shanahan is going (stalking, background checks) to find out more about her classified life, although the character is finally free to talk about her life at the end of episode.

Several fans refused to watch the episode "Chimera" because Carter was getting involved with someone other than who they wanted her to be involved with. Tapping received letters of fans who said that Carter's integrity "is completely out the window, and, 'What the hell [were you] thinking.'" According to Tapping, Carter "harbors great depth of feeling for Colonel O'Neill, but because nothing can ever happen ... He's the one who let her go. He says, 'I'm a safe bet. You know you can't have me so you're just protecting your heart by, you know, hanging your hat on someone you can't have. So, let me go,' is essentially what's said at the end of "Grace"". Tapping said,

"The whole episode is her sort of rethinking her life and rethinking her choices, and I don't think that she's lost integrity. I don't think that her feelings for O'Neill are any less. I think she's just placed them in a different box, if you will. It was weird, I have to say, for her to hand her heart over to somebody else. But it's baby steps for her, and this is all new for her. And I think it's ultimately O'Neill who says, 'You have to move on.' And it's her father, too, who says, you know, 'Don't give up your chance of love. You know, I would live my whole life over again even knowing that your mother's gonna die, I would do all that again.' So it's her opening up her heart as opposed to actually – it's been closed this whole time because she's, you know, been protecting it with thoughts of O'Neill, who she knows she can't have, so it opens her up."

Working around Richard Dean Anderson's reduced schedule was a challenge for Tapping. Nevertheless, Tapping, Michael Shanks and Christopher Judge knew going into season 7 that this allowed for their characters to be fleshed out a bit more and to have a bit more screen time. She did not think the dynamics or the chemistry of the team had suffered.

Unlike O'Neill and Jackson, Carter did not appear in the series premiere of Atlantis. This was probably to do with the legalities of her being a character specifically created for Stargate SG-1. Tapping considered the elevator scene with Cassandra in season 1's "Singularity" to be one of the scenes to best fully capture Carter.

Reception
For her portrayal of Samantha Carter, Amanda Tapping was nominated for a 2000 Leo Award in the category "Dramatic Series: Best Lead Performance – Female" for the episode "Point of View", and won the Leo for "Ascension" in 2003, for "Grace" in 2004, and for "Threads" in 2005. Tapping was nominated for a Saturn Award in the category "Best Supporting Actress on Television" in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. Tapping was nominated for a 2001 Gemini Award in the category "Best Performance by an Actress in a Continuing Leading Dramatic Role". In 2008 Amanda Tapping was nominated for a Constellation Award nomination in the category "Outstanding Canadian Contribution to Science Fiction Film or Television in 2008".

Variety reviewed the pilot episode "Children of the Gods", where he stated that Tapping's character was "Pushy" and her acting was "Wooden". Tory Ireland Mell, reviewer from IGN said that Carter's season four presence on Stargate Atlantis was "underused" and a "slap in the face" to her character. In 2008, Amanda Tapping started to produce her own web series entitled Sanctuary with Damian Kindler and Martin Wood among others. Many reviewers have felt that Tapping accepted the role of Doctor Helen Magnus to make a name of herself outside the Stargate universe as Samantha Carter. AOL named her one of the 100 Most Memorable Female TV Characters.

title: Samantha Carter


text:
D'Lo Brown

Accie Julius Connor (born October 22, 1970), better known by his ring name D'Lo Brown (also formatted as D-Lo Brown), is an American professional wrestler. He is best known for his time in Impact Wrestling and WWE. Brown is also known for his appearances in Ring of Honor, All Japan Pro Wrestling, and Pro Wrestling Noah.

Early career (1994–1997)
Connor began his wrestling career in New Jersey as "Ace the Animal". He then wrestled Earthquake in the WWF in 1994 under his given name as a jobber. This led to his first widely known accomplishment in Smoky Mountain Wrestling, as he became the head of security for The Gangstas, using the moniker of "Downtown" D'Lo Brown. When the Gangstas left SMW in 1995, he signed a deal with the WWF and was sent to the Heartland Wrestling Association for more training while also continuing to make more appearances as a jobber on WWF television. D'Lo also spent most of 1996 wrestling in Puerto Rico for the World Wrestling Council.

Nation of Domination (1997–1998)
Connor made his official WWF debut in April 1997 as a member of Faarooq's Nation of Domination heel stable, debuting as one of several non-descript people in suits that accompanied the group to the ring. During this time, his most notable moment was when Ahmed Johnson slammed him onto the roof of a car during Shotgun Saturday Night. His first televised match as a member of the Nation was on the April 26, 1997, episode of Shotgun Saturday Night, as he, Crush, and Savio Vega defeated Aldo Montoya, Steve Corino, and Freddie Joe Floyd. On May 26, 1997, he had his first match on Monday Night Raw (which was called Raw Is War at the time), defeating Bob "The Spark Plugg" Holly. After the King of the Ring 1997, Faarooq fired the rest of the Nation's members, except for D-Lo, who was later joined by Ahmed Johnson (later replaced by Rocky Maivia), Kama Mustafa, and Mark Henry. In early 1998, the group turned on Faarooq, allowing Maivia, now going by the name "The Rock", to assume leadership. During this period Kama also changed his name to "The Godfather" and began portraying a pimp character. D'Lo and Henry eventually turned on both Rock and Godfather separately, moving into a feud with the Rock before finally branching out as a moderately successful tag team, later turning face along the way. Prior to the face turn, Brown had started wrestling with a chest protector, supposedly for a torn pectoral muscle sustained in a match against Dan "The Beast" Severn. Instead, he used the chest protector to his advantage, making his finishing move, the Lo Down, more effective.

Title pursuit (1998–2000)
In 1998, he feuded with X-Pac over the WWF European Championship. His career peaked when he held the European and Intercontinental Championships simultaneously during a feud with Jeff Jarrett and Mark Henry. This feat has only been duplicated by Jeff Jarrett, Kurt Angle, and Rob Van Dam, all of whom became world champions in some form, later in their careers.

Brown was involved in inadvertently ending the career of Droz on October 5, 1999, when a running powerbomb was botched due to Droz's baggy shirt. The match was filmed for the October 7 edition of SmackDown!, but was never aired. Droz suffered a severe neck injury, rendering him a quadriplegic. During an interview with Title Match Wrestling, D'Lo Brown dispelled a popular rumor that a fan had thrown an object into the ring which caused him to slip and badly injure Darren Drozdov. D'Lo took responsibility for botching the move, stating that the accident could have happened to "any" wrestler he had been in the ring with that night. He also said the accident caused him to "wrestle differently" and to second guess every move he performed in the ring from that day forward. Drozdov maintained that he did not blame Brown for his injuries and believed the incident was an accident.

During the rest of the year and into some of the next, Brown became an ally of former fellow Nation member The Godfather, emulating his dress and walking motions. The teaming ended when Brown turned heel on the Godfather.

Lo Down (2000–2001)
Brown then formed a tag team in July 2000 with Chaz named Lo Down. The team mostly wrestled on Sunday Night Heat and WWE Jakked / Metal. Shortly after the team formed, Tiger Ali Singh joined the team to become their manager. The tag team then came dressed towards the ring in Sikh attire and took on a gimmick very similar to Tiger's. The team was removed from WWF television in January 2001 after Singh was injured. According to Brown, it was the lowest point in his career. Chaz and Singh were later released by WWE while Brown stayed in WWE's developmental territory, OVW. Notably, Brown wrestled future World champion Batista in a losing effort. Brown also spent six months in Puerto Rico wrestling for the International Wrestling Association teaming with Glamour Boy Shane holding the IWA tag team titles. Later that year he returned to OVW and worked for Heartland Wrestling Association going into 2002.

Alliance with Theodore Long (2002–2003)
Brown returned to television on the April 28, 2002, episode of Heat, losing to Eddie Guerrero. For the rest of the year, Brown mostly wrestled on Heat, did a little bit of commentary on the show, and even started a brief feud with Raven. In late 2002, Theodore Long retired as a WWE referee and managed D'Lo, who had complained about acts of racism during his matches. D'Lo started Long's group Thuggin' and Buggin' Enterprises which eventually turned into a group of African Americans who worked an angle in which they felt they were victims of racism and were being held down by the "white man." With Long's managerial services, D'Lo Brown went undefeated for several weeks.

Brown faced Booker T in a losing effort on the February 10, 2003, episode of Raw. His involvement with Thuggin' and Buggin' Enterprises was brought to a close when footage was shown on the February 16 episode (taped February 10) of Heat of Theodore Long kicking D'Lo Brown to the curb and introducing his replacement Rodney Mack. He was then released from his WWE contract on February 14, 2003.

NWA Total Nonstop Action (2003–2004)
Connor, still under the D'Lo Brown name, Joined NWA Total Nonstop Action in March 2003. During his time in TNA, he teamed with AJ Styles on many occasions together even challenging for the NWA World Tag Team Championships but were unsuccessful. After the team split up Brown challenged Styles for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship but came up short on every occasion doing a best of 3 series.

On the March 19, 2003, edition of NWA-TNA, Brown teamed with Dusty Rhodes and Jeff Jarrett defeating Erik Watts, Brian Lawler and David Flair. On April 2, 2003, edition of NWA-TNA weekly pay-per view D'Lo Brown unsuccessfully challenged Jeff Jarrett for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. On April 14, 2004, Brown and Gran Apolo won the NWA World Tag Team Championships defeating Kid Kash and Dallas, They lost the titles just seven days after winning them. D'Lo later left TNA in the summer of 2004.

On a September 2014 interview, Brown said there was a time in TNA during this time where the creative team wanted to radically change his character; on top of not feeling like he was a good fit with TNA, Brown felt that by wrestling in Japan, he could still wrestle there while being D'Lo Brown.

All Japan Pro Wrestling and overseas (2004–2009)
Brown Joined All Japan Pro Wrestling, competing in regular tours with the Japanese company as a member of Roughly Obsess and Destroy (RO&D). During one of these tours on September 17, 2006, Brown betrayed RO&D to join the rival Voodoo Murders faction. Brown left All Japan in 2007 and rejoined RO&D in Pro Wrestling Noah.

When not in Japan, Brown was regularly found touring the United Kingdom, as well as working for Irish Whip Wrestling in Ireland. In April 2005, Brown became one of the lead trainers of the ill-fated Celebrity Wrestling on ITV. This Saturday evening reality show saw celebrities learn wrestling and compete in challenge matches. After a few weeks the programme was to be canceled, but was instead moved to Sunday mornings to finish its final episodes. During his time wrestling in England, he would face off in a series of matches against his Celebrity Wrestling opposition's trainer, Joe Legend.

Return to WWE (2008–2009)
In 2008, Brown began wrestling in a number of dark matches for WWE. On June 5, WWE announced that Brown had been signed to a contract, and he began working more dark matches for the company. He made his television return on the July 21, 2008, edition of Raw, defeating Santino Marella. Following this, Brown's appearances on television became more sporadic, and on January 9, 2009, it was announced on WWE official website that he had been released from his WWE contract due to cost-cutting measures.

Independent circuit (2009-2010)
Brown debuted for Ring of Honor during Proving Ground 09 weekend in February. He was defeated by Nigel McGuinness in an ROH World Championship match. He also wrestled at the ROH 7th Anniversary Show on March 21, 2009, in Manhattan, defeating Jay Briscoe. Brown also appeared on Ring of Honor Wrestling on HDNet. Varsity Pro Wrestling also announced that Brown would be making his third appearance for the promotion on their February tour. Brown also made a surprise appearance in Chikara, where he filled in as a substitute for Iceberg of The Cold Front at the 2009 King of Trios tournament. Brown came up short in an ROH World Championship match at Take No Prisoners (2009). At ROH's Manhattan Mayhem III on June 13, Brown tapped out to Colt Cabana in a four-way match also involving Bryan Danielson and Claudio Castagnoli. On June 27 on an ROH show he was defeated by Cabana.

Throughout April and May 2009, Brown flew to Japan to take part in the 13-night Pro Wrestling Noah Global Tag League with his partner Buchanan. During the course of the event they won and lost three matches with one contest went to a draw giving them seven points placing them sixth of the eight teams. Outside of the tournament Brown was undefeated in six-man tag team competition, adding Keith Walker to the team, including a victory over Noah founder Mitsuharu Misawa in one of his last matches.

On the September 15, 2009, edition of Between The Ropes, Brown announced that after his current tour with Ring of Honor, he would retire from in-ring action. Also, on this edition of Between The Ropes, Brown announced he would become a semi-regular co-host when his TNA scheduling allowed him to be in studio.

He defeated Mr. Anderson on June 12, 2010, TCW event in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. It would be Brown's last match. He did not wrestle again until 2013.

Return to TNA (2009–2013)
In September 2009, Connor was re-signed by TNA as their lead agent. Additionally, D'Lo was in charge of talent development and acquisitions heading up the TNA Gut Check program.

On the March 7, 2013, episode of Impact Wrestling, Brown attacked Kurt Angle and revealed himself as the Vice President of Aces & Eights, turning heel in the process. Three days later at Lockdown, Brown interfered in Angle's steel cage match against fellow Aces & Eights member Wes Brisco, costing Angle the match. Later that evening, the President of the Aces & Eights was revealed to be Bully Ray. Brown wrestled his first televised match in four years on the May 2 episode of Impact Wrestling, losing to Kurt Angle in an I Quit Match. As a result of his loss, Brown was demoted to a prospect the following week. On July 17, Brown announced he was release from his TNA contract.

Return to AJPW (2013)
On August 11, 2013, All Japan Pro Wrestling announced that Brown would be returning to the promotion the following month to take part in the 2013 Ōdō Tournament. Brown returned to the promotion on September 11 in a non-tournament tag team match, where he and Bambi Killer defeated Burning (Atsushi Aoki and Yoshinobu Kanemaru), with Brown pinning Kanemaru for the win. Three days later, Brown was eliminated by Kanemaru in his first round match in the Ōdō Tournament. For the rest of the tour, which lasted until September 23, Brown worked midcard tag team matches, suffering pinfall losses in most of them. On October 3, Brown was announced also for All Japan's next tour, which started October 12. Brown continued teaming regularly with Bambi Killer, which eventually led to the two forming a heel stable named DK (Dark Kingdom) under the leadership of Kenso on November 21.

Return to Independent circuit (2013-present)
After working for TNA, Brown returned to the independent circuit where he appeared for Pro Wrestling Syndicate on May 18, 2013, with D.O.C. and Knux. On August 3, 2013, Brown and Hankinson lost to the Rock N' Roll Express at Mid-Atlantic Wrestling Legends Fanfest. By the end of the year he worked in England and the Netherlands.

On November 22, 2014, Brown would team with former WWE wrestler Bull Buchanan defeating AJ Steele and Brad Lynch at Buchanan's retirement show at UIW in Bowden, Georgia.

He lost to Sabu (wrestler) at XICW Bodyslams Childhood Cancer event in Wyandotte, Michigan July 29, 2017. On October 27, 2018, he won the vacated HLW Legends Title defeating Dru Skillz in Fort Wayne, Indiana. He dropped the title to Tracy Smothers on April 20, 2019.

Brown's last match was on October 7, 2023, for Border City Wrestling in which he along with Scott D'Amore and Tommy Dreamer defeated the team of Johnny Swinger, N8 Mattson and Tyler Tirva.

Future Stars of Wrestling (2014–2015)
Brown formerly held a weekly class on Friday for "Future Stars of Wrestling" training center in Las Vegas.

Return to Impact / Total Nonstop Action Wrestling (2019–2022)
On July 3, 2019, Brown announced that he had returned to Impact Wrestling with a multi-year contract as a producer. Brown and Mr Anderson were scheduled to represent the Aces & Eights at TNA: There's No Place Like Home but the event was annulled due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

In January 2021, it was announced that Brown would be one half of Impact's new announce team with Matt Striker from Hard to Kill onward. The role ended in early 2022 when Honor No More attacked him. His role was replaced by Matt Rehwoldt.

Brown returned as part of the reunited Aces & Eights, managing Garett Bischoff and Wes Brisco, in a losing effort against Honor No More's Kenny King and Vincent. The reunion would later be a one-off, as Brown continued to his Talent Relations role backstage and makes occasional appearances thereafter. On September 6, it was announced that Brown was done with Impact Wrestling.

Personal life
Connor holds an accounting degree from the University of Maine. He worked as a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) before he began his wrestling career. He and his wife Jennifer were married in 2001 and have two daughters. He has three half siblings on his dad's side. He is a fan of the Chicago Bears and Liverpool F.C.

Championships and accomplishments

 * Backed Against The Wall Championship Wrestling
 * BAW Championship (1 time)
 * BAW Title Tournament (2007)
 * Border City Wrestling
 * BCW Can-Am Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
 * Cleveland All-Pro Wrestling
 * CAPW North American Championship (2 times)
 * Great Lakes Wrestling
 * GLW Heavyweight Championship (1 time, inaugural)
 * GLW Heavyweight Title Tournament (1996)
 * Heartland Wrestling Association
 * HWA Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
 * HWA Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Matt Stryker
 * HWA Heavyweight Championship Tournament (1996)
 * Heroes and Legends Wrestling
 * HLW Legends Championship (1 time)
 * International Wrestling Association
 * IWA World Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Glamour Boy Shane
 * International Wrestling Promotions
 * IWP Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
 * Irish Whip Wrestling
 * IWW International Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
 * Maximum Pro Wrestling
 * MXPW Heavyweight Championship (1 time, final)
 * New Era Pro Wrestling
 * NEW Heavyweight Championship (6 times)
 * Pro Wrestling Illustrated
 * Ranked #61 of the top 500 singles wrestlers in the PWI 500 in 2004
 * Ranked #361 of the 500 best singles wrestlers of the PWI Years in 2003
 * Pro Wrestling Noah
 * GHC Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Buchanan
 * GHC Tag Team Title Decision Tournament (2007) - with Buchanan
 * Global Tag League Technique Prize (2008, 2009) – with Buchanan
 * Southern Championship Wrestling
 * SCW Florida Southern Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
 * Total Nonstop Action Wrestling
 * NWA World Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Apolo
 * USA Xtreme Wrestling
 * UXW Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
 * World Wrestling Federation
 * WWF European Championship (4 times)
 * WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time)
 * Wrestling Observer Newsletter
 * Worst Gimmick (2013) Aces & Eights

title: D'Lo Brown


text:
Talk:Anti-French sentiment in the United States/Archive 4

General accusations on the French Way of Life
Personally, I don't think this listing is insulting, but I think it is : Aoineko 08:17, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Not encyclopedic if there are no explanation about the source of those alliterations,
 * Not neutral if there are no explanation about why it is « cliché » and not « reality ».

Yes I am agree with you, why bring back the conversations of the bar of the corner, if it is only for saying that there are people who have feelings anti-anything

 * We're not talking of people discussing "bars around the corner" but of people writing such crud in press articles. David.Monniaux 10:46, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * in which newspapers? (with scadale, policies, humorous?) Which people?

Which mediums? Which political tendencies?

 * I have tried to address the issue of NPOV and cliche. As for citations, they have largely been moved to the bottom of the page. Sam [Spade] 09:05, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I think you overdid it. I mean, it's obvious that the American view of France focuses enormously on the Left Bank intellectual lifestyle (a tiny minority). David.Monniaux 10:46, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

NPOV is not really adding "some think that while others think that" "a lot of people consider" or similar sentences. A good way to preserve accuracy and factual comments is to rely on facts.

 * Style, presentation and language are important. Facts alone won't necessarily magically result in NPOV. Where you introduce them, which facts you choose to present (yes we should present as much as relevant, but some contributors may choose not to, then claim NPOV) and how you word the facts. Zoney 11:27, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * French men are largely homosexual/bisexual. (According to surveys American's male homosexual incidence is bigger than in French. This allegation may have arisen from the fact there are no laws against sodomy in France. Alternatively, it may have arisen because of generalizations from the artistic or intellectual lifestyle.)

Please, provide the reference for these surveys (accurate percentages of opinion may be worth). Also provide a reference (or a citation) for the "this allegation may have arisen...". The consequences of no sodomy law implies more homosexuals does not appear obvious to me, so it would be interesting to know who suggested it might be an explanation. Also, please provide support for the relation more artistic life -> more homosexual and mostly provide support of who claims that. Thanks. SweetLittleFluffyThing 10:51, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Such implications were not implied. On the other hand, the absence of sodomy laws enables homosexuals to be more visible. Also, the artistic or intellectual field is traditionally more tolerant of sexually free lifestyles than other fields, like politics. The prevalence of visible homosexuals may be misunderstood as general prevalence of homosexuals, which of course ignores the fact that in repressive contexts, homosexuals will simply exist, hidden.
 * But, you're right: I don't thing that this is a significant cliché. While I've seen WWII allusions and clichés on cafés, cigarettes and no baths regularly, I've seldom seen stuff about homosexuals.David.Monniaux 11:32, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah, maybe it was "foireux"... but not entirely. But that is a cliche I never really heard...

I'm not understanding the focus on WWII? Why such emphasis on this? And as far as homosexuality/sexual liberalism, that is not really in question, is it? You yourselves say that even if numbers are lower (I also question these numbers) that French society is more open to this, legally in particular. This has changed since the 60's, much less WWII, but even in the time of the founding of the United States Benjamin Franklin enjoyed the more liberal sexual atmosphere of France. I have already supplied two citations for this particular (sexual accusations), one of which was moved to the external links section. Sam[Spade] 12:24, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * WWII was not about the homosexuals, but about the alleged "weakness" of France ("rolled over when the Germans came"). Also, WWII was the last time when there was a very large American presence on French soil (the later NATO bases were much smaller). I suspect that the thing about cleanliness etc... was a reaction towards WWII and post-WWII life, where staples such as soap were rationed and society was impoverished (which translated into: people did not have enough money for amenities such as good in-hous plumbing). Americans often do not imagine the drag and cost of WWI and WWII, which took decades to compensate.

 * Could you point at the relevant links for the survey and citations ?

For americans surveys (4.9~5.9%), see Homosexuality. For the French one, I founded 4.1% in a survey from Agence nationale de recherches sur le sida (National agence for research on AIDS) done in 1992 on 20.000 people. Aoineko 13:37, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

France : 4.1 compared to US 4.9-5.9 does not seem to go in the right direction...

 * What is the « right » direction ? Aoineko 02:41, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

tu ne m'a pas comprise :-) L'article indiquait que les sondages montraient une plus grande prévalence de l'homosexualité en France, alors que tes chiffres semblent indiquer le contraire. Ou est l'erreur ? ant

 * You must understand anthere, these are jokes. They are not neccesarilly rooted in fact, but rather focus on that which will amuse and offend. Of course we may research and understand the facts involved, but one fact in addition is that many people tell these jokes and laugh. This is of some small importance, and encyclopedic IMO, helping those who do not have a working knowledge of this a chance to understand this cultural complexity. Sam [Spade] 17:36, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

The real basis of US Francophobia
I had hoped to stay out of this article, but it goes on at length scraping for often absurd "reasons" that there is anti-French sentiment in the U.S.

This article (and the one on anti-Americanism) frankly upsets me. First, it is a "kitchen sink" article straining to find anti-French sentiment in the US, without much sense of reality or proportion. This (and its counter-article) should actually be embarassing to the posters because so much of it is peripheral to reality, or ("pardon my French," which is an old US expression): merde. I see people like Anthere getting upset about US attitudes that aren't widely held, or more important, held with any significant cultural depth. In essence, this is another US-bashing article, because much of it says, in essence: "look how stupid and bigoted Americans are, to have these absurd ideas."

I was born right after WWII and I have had a lot of European friends and acquaintances for various reasons, including having relatives in England and Germany. For whatever reason, at least perhaps until after the fall of the Soviet Union (still?) Europeans seem much more actively aware of feelings and attitudes toward other countries and their people in an everyday setting than Americans do. Maybe part of that is reaction to meeting people from the US (so causing them to argue over US issues), but this is what I have seen a lot of, even speaking to friends of relatives.

In terms of negative feelings active today in the US, noone (except for your talk show entertainer or variety comedian maybe) cares whether there are more, fewer or any homosexuals at all in France, for example. If this attitude exists, it is mostly dying with the WWII generation. But insofar as WWII is concerned, it did play a large part in modern 'political anti-French sentiment.

The French in WWII and immediately after had great press in the US. The French were seen as victims of German aggression and, despite America's huge German ethnic population, Germany was already not popular as a result of WWI. It was common to talk about the "Brave French Resistance," movies like Casablanca were a typical attitude: "the brave and clever French vs. the brutal and stupid Nazis." Charles deGaulle was considered a hero of resistance.

It took a while, but after WWII doubts began to creep in, spearheaded by the same deGaulle, who began to steer a separate course in what seemed ingratitude. Then the image of French nobility in WWII befan to be chipped at, just as Abu Ghraib hurts America's image. Maurice Chavalier and Edith Piaf flourishing in Nazi-occupied Paris, French authorities turning over Jewish families to the Nazis where they only asked for adults, "The Sorrow and the Pity," "The Betrayal at Dunkirk." Culturally, Americans see French people who have held themselves superior to America for its presumed racism ("it doesn't matter whether you are black or white, if you are French") but we hear current stories of synagogue attacks, of French Jews who fear to stay in their own country because of rising anti-Semitism.

And as to more recent events, there is an abiding attitude in America that is larger than just France, it goes like this: "We didn't want to get involved in Europe's Wars, but we were told it was the right thing, and we eventually did. After WWII, we formed mutual alliances where we were all supposed to help each other out. Then the U.S. is significantly attacked on its own soil and France doesn't want to participate in actions the US believes are as necessary as WWI or WWII. OK, France is a sovereign country, we can deal with that. But we never expected France to openly obstruct us when we are investing our own blood and our own treasure. Or to put it briefly, 'we were there for you, but when we need you, you don't simply turn away, you try to thwart us.' "

As I said, negative feelings toward France are not front and center in US consciousness, but when people do feel negative, it is for reasons like these, not stupid beliefs that Frenchmen spend their time in bed with people of unknown gender, wearing dirty shirts and eating parts of amphibious creatures. Looking for these things is "not seeing the forest for the trees." Cecropia | Talk 18:31, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The above is largely correct, particularly for the majority of americans. But there is a minority which always had anti-french sentiments, and from whom the more personal accusations come, and who coined such slurs as "dirty french" and "french frogs". The pre-WWII, even pre-US origins of this are ignored within the article, which in reality only focuses on post-9/11 sentiments specifically, w some regard to opinions formed during WWII. Where the confusion sets in is where people who are annoyed w france due to 9/11 borrow from stereotypes both from the WWII era, as well as the undercurrent (held by quite a small minority I agree) of anti-franco sentiment which has always been their, for many centuries before the US was even discovered. I feel this deserves more focus. Sam [Spade] 20:17, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed. This article has managed to offend the French and the Americans. Meelar 20:21, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The above is largely correct: the root of the sometimes intense anti-French feelings is not in "cultural" stuff. I think, however, that it's far easier to talk disparagingly of foreign countries if you can show that "they're different" or hint at some "moral inferiority". Little things that sound pointless (the café myth, for instance) are used to build a kind of background: "hey, the French are not going to help us in Iraq, but what else could be expect of a bunch of lazybones that spend their time idling in their socialist country". Of course, a sentence like the preceding one will not be written in the polite press, but I've definitely seen some editorializing that had the same ideas.
 * In short: I think that the cultural jokes are not neutral and they are used to install a climate of patronizing condescendance which may then bias the reception of more serious issues. David.Monniaux 08:08, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

I would like to state that what mostly irritates me are not the comments themselves. It is that I know quite a few american people, who I highly respect and sometimes love very much, who have a bad feeling toward France. I consider these people bright, and whether I agree with the reality of the base of these beliefs they have, I can't ignore their sentiments. I *know* they feel a certain way, which is not positive, toward my nation and the people who make it. I regret it. But it does not always mean they feel that way toward me, so I am not *personaly* offended. However, I know these people are bright, and I know they do not have these feelings for stupid reasons such as the fact we eat frogs or that we don't shave. I would like to understand why they feel that way. And frankly, this article is insulting their intelligence and it is not explaining me much of the reason they have these feelings. In short, it is offensive and useless. Mostly SweetLittleFluffyThing 21:00, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The distinction Cecropia makes, between the feelings themselves, and the words by which they are manifested, is probably the key to making a reasonable article. It's not that (some) Americans hate the French because the French are "garlicky frogeaters", but rather that they choose to use those words as a way of offending the French because of their anti-French sentiments. The reasons for the sentiments are different from the reasons the particular words are chosen, and the truth (or not) of the words is largely irrelevant to a discussion of the causes of the sentiment. Analogously, only the most credulous would believe the French hate Americans because they are "cowboys":  rather, they call American "cowboys" in order to offend, because of their resentment. Their "pleasure" (or at any rate their mild frisson) comes from indicating that a group of people has so offended you that you no longer need to be careful about the language you use in reference to them, and the language is used precisely for the purpose of indicating to them that you no longer care if they are offended or not: their opinion no longer matters to you (which will quite naturally offend them). - Nunh-huh 21:17, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you Nunh-huh. David would say it better than I, but it is our feeling that right now, some words are used to talk about us, some comments are made, that would raise uproar if they were used to describe other nations than France. The words have little meaning in themselves, their use only is important. The use of the word show that it does not matter if they could offend. SweetLittleFluffyThing 21:42, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, Fluff, we're "birds of a feather," I feel that way about complaints in the anti-Americanism article that the US has "In God We Trust" on its currency. These things do not a theocracy make. But Americans now eat many things they would never have thought of 30 years ago. You can get Frog's Legs (since about 1965) at Nathan's, the hot dog place in Coney Island. Americans now try all kinds of Asian food and Sushi restaurants are everywhere. I grew up eating raw fish (Danish or Jewish-style herring, when I could get it, not to mention clams and oysters) but most Americans were horrified by the idea.

 * Now regular working-class types down raw fish. But please don't be insulted by silly food complaints. Mopst of the best restaurants in the US are French, helped along by all the French ex-pats who fled the Nazis.

 * Much of the world thinks that the difference between their cuisine and other countries' is that "mine is edible, yours isn't." A true story: an Irish-American friend of mine once tried to "prove" to me what barbarians (his word) the English are: "They eat FISH for breakfast." I didn't share with him that I love my broiled kippers, and poach Black Cod in milk. -- Cecropia | Talk 21:19, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Should I confess that it is in USA that I ate jellyfish for the first (and only) time of my life... :-) ant
 * I didn't know jellyfish were edible? -- Cecropia | Talk 23:36, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Me neither, but why not ? The cook was a chinese american. The food itself is very bland and a bit chewy (reasonably). As often, the sauce makes the difference :-) It was a bit spicy. I liked it. SweetLittleFluffyThing
 * I for my part will admit to eating smelly cheeses (Roquefort cheese for example) and to being about to purchase a French press coffee maker :) Sam [Spade] 02:51, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Mon dieu! I love French cheese. And French butter. If only those French knew that they could bring America to its knees by cutting off those staples. (I hope no French people are listening, are they?) -- Cecropia | Talk 03:18, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Noted. ant

I doubt that anti-Semitism is more widespread in France than in the US. And everyone supported the US when it was attacked, even though it refused to negotiate the overturning of Bin Laden with the Taliban, which had gotten CIA support for many years. Even though every one knew that the US had decided to go for the war before the UN had discussed the issue. And even though it became obvious rather soon that the US ignored the human rights of its prisoners in Guantanamo. Only when torture finally could not be denied any longer given the photos from Abu Ghraib did a major outcry happen, no matter that human rights groups had protested for a long time. What the majority of Europeans could not stand was when the US government produced faked evidence of weapons of mass destruction to the UN Security Council and illegally attacked a country that had no links to 9/11 terrorists. None of those terrorist was from Iraq or even Afghanistan. And then Bush produced another excuse, "spreading democracy in the Middle East", an attempt his father had not even tried to make in Kuwait when the chances were best. And many of the "Coalition of the Willing" countries are far from anything that could be called democratic. It was outrageous how France was singled out as the evil nation that had denied Bush a UN fig leaf resolution for his war. There was no chance for that resolution anyway, and apparently many from the US just went after the French because it is easier to provide the public a single scapegoat, especially if you want to pretend that otherwise you have wide support, and there already were prejudices before. Also the French have a veto right, so it was more useful to defame them than the Germans, Austrians, Belgians, Greeks, Swiss or Luxembourgers, who were equally opposed to the war, for example. When I spoke to a fellow student from Britain who had done an internship in Blair's office I was appalled how propaganda even got through to intellectuals. And while Germans students regularly get beaten up in Britain because their grandparents might have been Nazis I could not believe how now our neighbours got under attack while the German position was simply ignored. I have never seen anything in German or French media similar to Murdoch's Sun picturing Jacques Chirac as a worm on the front page. And that is not because we only have high quality media. Meanwhile in the US Murdoch spread the same rubbish in his New York Post and with Fox TV. But even usually serious people joined him: The US Congress decided to rename French fries to "freedom fries", the New York Times and International Herald Tribune stated that "Chirac and his poodle Putin have severely damaged the United Nations", and the Wall Street Journal called Chirac "a balding Joan of Arc in drag" ("The Rat that Roared": Christopher Hitchens). That indeed "raised uproar", Anthere. Get-back-world-respect 21:25, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Deletion
I removed the cultural material, which should go elsewhere if it deserves an article at all, and rephrased the introduction to make this article focus on foreign affairs.

If anyone wishes to re-add the cultural material, work should be done to make it more balanced and to provide context. The U.S. is a big place and if you look hard enough, you can find people who hate just about any public figure, act of congress, foreign state, and so on. The fact that the Simpsons tv show panned French culture should be considered in light of the fact that the Simpsons tv show has similarly panned many homegrown cultural institutions. In any case, I think we could do without repeating the gratuitious name-calling previously present in the article. Late night TV and congressman sound bites do not define American culture (God forbid). UninvitedCompany 22:38, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

UninvitedCompany 22:38, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I reverted, not to be difficult, but because their was no concensus to remove that section. Perhaps it needs more references (I've already supplied many times what is found in similar articles...) or some fine tuning, but I don't agree w large deletions of content. Sam [Spade] 23:01, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
 * There is clearly no consensus on keeping it at all either. ant

 * I don't believe that references are the issue. The content is simply inappropriate--certainly in an article about foreign affairs.  I believe that, as it stands, it oversteps a certain boundary between describing racism and engaging in it. UninvitedCompany 23:15, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I understand the allegation, but I don't agree w it. Have you seen Anti-American sentiment, Anti-gay slogan, List of ethnic slurs etc...? Do you have similar objections to them? What about Nigger or Fag? Sam [Spade] 23:50, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia as a project has certain poor articles. The presence of other poor articles does not justify making this article equally poor.  It is possible to write about racism or nationalism in a detached way without being PC.  One key is to include only material where the informative value exceeds the inflammatory effect.  In a general-purpose, international project like this, that bar should be set high.  I believe much of the material in the article fails the test. UninvitedCompany

 * This article is about anti-French sentiment, why do you think it is about foreign affairs? The anti-French sentiment could have its origin only in foreign affairs, but it is not proven. Marc Mongenet 02:59, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The first two-thirds of the article talk mainly about foreign affairs. Then we have the cultural material at the end.  They don't belong together.  UninvitedCompany

 * I agree with you, they don't belong very well together. But if something must be deleted, then it is the "foreign affairs" part, because it is already (better) described in other (historic) articles. I think that the cultural part, notably the list of allegations, is original and very important content. Here is an example, that I hope will show you why I think so. Yesterday France finished a very high motorway bridge (the Millau bridge) to the Mediterranean sea. And I read on Slashdot the following joke: Why did they build this bridge, that looks like a perfectly nice valley down there, easy to push a road through... Because the german army hates to march up and down hills. Had I read this article ten years ago, before knowing some bits of american culture, I would have think about the common French clichés about germans: they are fat sausage tourists going en masse to the sea every summer. And the joke wouldn't have made a lot of sense. In fact, you would have a very hard time finding jokes in French about the Nazi invasion. In some countries, it is just not a suitable subject for jokes. Marc Mongenet 02:04, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Again, I think that you cannot explain how the foreign policy of a country A with respect to another country B is accepted and condoned by the citizenship of A without explaining some of the stereotypes and ideas that the citizenship of A has against the citizenship of B.
 * This is a well known fact, and in times of war it was common practice, even among "developed" nations, to present the other sides as some kind of bloodthirsty tyrants.
 * Colonial wars were justified by the prejudice of the citizens of the colonizing country with respect to the natives. For instance, prejudice like "they don't know how to organize themselves, they don't know how to run a business" has been used to justify that colonialists run the businesses and order the natives around.
 * So I find it fairly relevant to include a section on the cultural underpinning of this policy. I may even add that I think that cultural prejudice is carefully reinforced by people who have an advantage in this prejudice for pushing their agenda. David.Monniaux 16:21, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Alleged moral weaknesses
What about this more focused list (ie without analysis)?

 * France has never had a military victory. Focusing on wars after World War I.
 * France is a cowardly country that chronically prefers surrendering rather than to fight. Alluding to France's invasion by Nazi Germany in World War II.
 * The French are ungrateful to the United States. Alluding to France's liberation with US help.

Marc Mongenet 03:03, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I would suggest it's better with a one-line analysis! Otherwise it looks like you're presenting fact! E.G. France is a cowardly country that chronically prefers surrendering rather than to fight. Alluding to France's invasion by Nazi Germany in World War II.  is sort of suggesting it's a valid slur! Zoney 09:58, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't like "Focusing on wars after World War I" as that is not what is ment (the joke makers say France didn't win WWI, USA did), and I think that rebuttels should be seperate from the listing, but I do think it would be appropriate to have a rebuttels section just following. Perhaps the format of providing a list is what is most bothersome? Maybe if we edited the list into a couple of paragraphs it would be more acceptable? Sam [Spade] 12:08, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes - you may have hit the nail on the head there - I suspect the list format is indeed the main problem! Zoney 13:24, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I like it this way... :( I will accept this compromise however, so long as no content is lost. Sam [Spade] 17:38, 27 May 2004 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Wrangler (University of Cambridge)

Obviously the topics now treated on this page should be treated in separate articles. Should we (1) make this a disambiguation page, or (2) treat one of those topics on this page, with terse links at the top directing the reader to the other pages, and if the latter, which one should be treated here? Michael Hardy 01:15, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

I remember 2:1 and 2:2 in 1977
I remember 2:1 and 2:2 Mathematics degrees being awarded at Cambridge University in 1977, so I'm not sure where the original article gets its 1995 date from. User:Al1g

The class-lists from 1911 to 1994 inclusive, as published in the Cambridge University Reporter and reprinted in the Historical Register Supplements, show an undivided second class in Parts IA/IB/I/II (Part I being divided into IA and IB part way through this period) of the Mathematical Tripos, Part II being the part that used the titles Wrangler / Senior Optime / Junior Optime during this period. (Part III used the Distinction / Pass classification from when it started in 1935 until 1999, with Merit being added in 2000.) From 1995 the second class was divided in Parts IA/IB/II. See, for example, the 1977 class-lists, Reporter, 1976-77, pp 871-875. (Note that it is always the examinations, not the degrees, that are classified at Cambridge, although the final year's classification is generally quoted as if it were a degree classification.) In the pre-1911 Tripos, the titles of Wrangler / Senior Optime / Junior Optime were used in Part I (with the published order of merit rather than numbered divisions, and the women's names published below the men's with details of where they went in the men's order of merit), while Part II had each of classes I, II and III divided into divisions 1, 2 and 3, for a total of nine divisions. (For a few years immediately before 1911 there was a transitional period with lists under both the Old and New Regulations.) Joseph Myers 20:35, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I believe that degrees were split into 2:1 and 2:2 from 1985. Oxford followed suit the following year. However, Oxford and Cambridge had for a number of years been required to provide information as to whether a second class degree would have been an upper or a lower second - this was necessary as a 2:1 was a common entrance requirement for PhDs and to receive postgraduate grants. Thus there was an unofficial split in the second class degree. I was at Oxford in the mid 1980s, and one could be provided with more detailed information and after the examination (e.g. the grades obtained), and in some subjects students would be ranked in order. However, this information was not published. Thus someone gaining a second who heard they were in the upper division may well describe their degree as a "2:1" on their CV (presumably many who came toward the bottom also made this claim). I am not sure what the situation was at Cambridge, but may have been similar.207.47.69.34 (talk) 19:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with the early dates for division of degree classes offered by some contributors. I graduated in Mathematics at Cambridge in 1988 and remember that the official Part II exam results (posted outside the Senate House) only showed division into 1st, 2nd, 3rd and the rather rare Ordinary (i.e. no Honours). I've put a citation needed tag against the date currently quoted in the article (1985). Unless anyone can challenge the evidence offered by Joseph Myers above, then I suggest changing this date to 1995. FrankP (talk) 23:11, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Category
Is there merit in a Senior Wrangler category? Mpntod 23:31, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

Fellowship
Hardy, in "A Mathematician's Apology", alludes to the fact that a second wrangler would at one time have automatically gained a Fellowship of Trinity. Can anyone provide more detail on this? RMoloney 12:35, 1 Apr, 2005

Doffing Caps
I've removed the following text: "The tradition of distinguishing the senior wrangler does, however, continue unofficially, with the Examiners doffing their hats to him/her during the reading out of the Part II results in Senate House. The position of highest scoring student remains fiercely fought over throughout each part of the tripos, with the holders usually receiving not some little prestige." This tradition no longer takes place. Bluap 08:16, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Whether it takes place in a particular year is up to the particular Chairman of Examiners; sometimes it does (as in 2004), sometimes it doesn't (as with 2005; presuming the Chairman of Examiners did choose not to doff his cap rather than forgetting to do so, as he forgot to read out the second column of Wranglers until after the Senior Optimes Division 1). Joseph Myers 17:14, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Minor edits
I've just made a number of minor cleanup edits. I would have liked to clean up the "Discussion" (now more accuratly called "Sources"), as it seems somewhat untidy to me, however I'm not sure of the best way to do this without reducing it to just listing the two books. --me_and 5 July 2005 22:35 (UTC)

Comparison with Oxford
I have removed the following ludicrous sentence: "The culture of fierce competition at mathematics exams was typical of Cambridge for a long time, and for this reason Cambridge, rather than Oxford, is associated with most of England's best mathematical and scientific minds". The Cavendish has had more Nobel Prizes but the competiveness of the internal exams is unlikely to be the reason. However if there is any evidence for the assertion, I will happily reinstate the sentence. Point-scoring against Oxford is best done in sport. JMcC 14:25, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Why are they called wranglers?
Any idea as to the etymology? The OED lists its first use in 1750 but does not explain why. --Grouse 15:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Why abolished?
The article states that the custom was abolished, but doesn't say why.--75.83.140.254 02:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Milk wrangler
I added this: because I've seen articles about car searches, & they're called wranglers, & I saw a video credit a milk wrangler, once. (Believe it, or not...) Trekphiler 08:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrangler (profession), in North America, is one who professionally searches for and/or handles particular products on film and television programs, and music videos such as custom cars, or animals, or milk

Tenth Wrangler
What would be the significance of "tenth wrangler" which is mentioned in the biography of Beilby Porteus? He graduated from Christ's College in 1752. This sounds rather lowly compared with the main definition of the word in the article, yet is mentioned as if it were a significant achievement. Beilby graduated as B.A. in 1752 as tenth wrangler, and being elected fellow later the same year, shortly afterwards was appointed esquire bedel. – Agendum (talk) 20:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

 * It means he got the tenth-highest first-class degree in mathematics that year. This would still have been a pretty good achievement - how good depends on how many other people there were in his year, but given that he got elected to a college fellowship on the back of it, probably quite good. -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 22:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Bridge Throwing
Is it just me, or do they not throw the highest-scoring Mathmo off the Queens' College bridge? Maybe I'm misremembering it. Still would be worth adding if anyone else can confirm its veracity. Spuddddddd 27Sep12 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.132.144 (talk) 11:07, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wrangler (University of Cambridge)