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Elmira College

Elmira College is a private college in Elmira, New York. Founded as a college for women in 1855, it is the oldest existing college granting degrees to women that were the equivalent of those given to men. Elmira College became coeducational in all of its programs in 1969. As of 2023, the college has an enrollment of approximately 657 students.

The school's colors, purple and gold, are seen throughout the traditional campus, consisting mainly of buildings of the Victorian and Collegiate Gothic architectural styles. The colors purple and gold come from both the banners of the women's suffrage movement and the iris, the college flower.

The octagonal study in which Mark Twain wrote many of his most widely read novels, including A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court and Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, is located on campus, and the center maintains Quarry Farm, where the Clemens family spent more than twenty summers, as a research facility for Twain scholars. Every four years the college hosts the International Conference On The State of Mark Twain Studies.

History
According to Thomas Woody, Elmira College is "the oldest existing women's college in the United States which succeeded in attaining standards in a fair degree comparable with men's colleges at the very beginning of her career". Five months later, Alexander MacKenzie was suggested as a possibility for Elmira's next president. He told the board that he was in the process of raising $100,000 with $53,000 already raised. While he wanted to remain in Owego, he accepted the presidency.

Elmira College became coeducational in 1969.

21st Century
The college has an enrollment of under 850 students, down from its all time high enrollment of just under 1,200 in 2014.

Elmira College's academic calendar contains a special six-week Spring Term, which is held in April and May. Courses taken during this term are usually not major-required, but can count as elective courses. They "tend to aim at the generalized aspect of student education" (Bulletin 24). However, some specialized courses are taken during this six-week period, such as lower level student teaching courses for education majors or nursing clinicals. Several courses are taught in foreign countries as part of the college's study abroad program.

In 2016 the United States Department of Education determined the college had violated Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, for failure to promptly and equitably respond to complaints of sexual harassment and sexual violence. Specifically, the Office of Civil Rights investigation determined that in fifteen of the sixteen incidents reported at the college over three years, the college's response was either in violation of Title IX or another serious concern was raised.

Athletics
Elmira College is a member of the NCAA, New York State Women's Collegiate Athletic Association (NYSWCAA), ECAC, NEHC, and Empire 8. Their mascot is the Soaring Eagle. Men's sports include baseball, basketball, cross-country, golf, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, tennis and volleyball; while women's sports include basketball, cross-country, cheerleading, field hockey, golf, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball, tennis and volleyball. On July 15, 2020, the Empire 8 Conference postponed all fall sports, but will provide conference championships in those sports in Spring 2021.

The college will add both men's and women's wrestling as intercollegiate programs for the 2020–21 academic year. Elmira College sponsored men's wrestling in the early 1970s but the sport was later discontinued.

Elmira College holds several NCAA Division III National Championships in Women's Ice Hockey as well as in NCA Competitive Cheerleading. Elmira College is a member of the United Collegiate Hockey Conference (UCHC) which has postponed conference competition until January 1, 2021 due to the COVID pandemic.

Buildings

 * Cowles Hall - The original building of the campus, built in 1855 and designed by a man named Farrar, has an octagonal center, seventy feet in diameter, and four arms in the shape of a Greek cross. Only three of these wings were built; the eastern and western arms were completed in 1855, while the northern arm was built in 1880. Its cornerstone, containing a copy of the college's charter and various other documents, was laid on July 6, 1854 during a ceremony. In 1882, construction on the north arm of Cowles Hall was completed. As the first building of the college, Cowles Hall served as a dormitory, dining hall, and classroom. On May 10, 1917, the building was dedicated to Augustus Cowles, the college's first president, and was given the name which remains today. Cowles Hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * Gillett Memorial Hall - Built in 1892, a gift of Solomon Gillett. It originally served as the college's music building, containing twenty-two teaching and practice rooms and pianos. It was proposed at a meeting in June 1891 and construction was completed the following year. In the past, the third floor held the Darius Ford Museum but currently, the building contains offices for faculty members of the college. Gillett Memorial Hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * Hamilton Hall - Originally the site of the library completed in June 1927. It housed several thousand volumes previously owned by Jacob Fassett, and was the college's main library until 1969 when the Gannett-Tripp Library was built. Hamilton Hall is "cited as one of the finest examples of English Collegiate Gothic architecture in America" (Bulletin 7). Hamilton Hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * Murray Athletic Center - In January 1973, construction on the Murray Athletic Center was completed. Located several miles north of campus, the center is situated on two hundred thirty-five acres. Consisting of three geodesic domes, the Murray Athletic Center is the first geodesic-domed athletic complex in the world.

Dormitories

 * Tompkins Hall - Built in 1928 during Lent's presidency, this dormitory was the result of a fund drive for more buildings. It was given by Sarah Wey Tompkins, the wife of Ray Tompkins, a financier in Elmira. Tompkins Hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * College Cottages - Originally built as homes for faculty members in 1948, these four buildings now serve as upperclassmen apartment housing.
 * Alumni Hall - This freshman dormitory was built in 1959 and is near Cowles Hall. It replaced Alumnae Hall, which was razed in 1977. It was briefly known as Main Street Dormitory in the late '70s and early '80s.  This dormitory now houses both male and female students.
 * Anderson Hall - This co-ed freshman dormitory, named for Douglass Anderson, an Elmira industrialist and trustee, was completed in 1960. It is next to Columbia Hall and the cottages.
 * Columbia Hall - Located between Anderson Hall and the Gannett-Tripp Library, it is a freshman dorm. Columbia was completed in 1965 and was rededicated in 1992 by the Prime Minister of the Bahamas, Sir Lynden Pindling, for the 500th anniversary of the Columbus voyage.
 * Perry Hall - Built in 1957, a co-ed dormitory named for a former Chairman of the Elmira College Board of Trustees, Charles Perry It is next to Tompkins Hall.
 * Twin Towers - These residence halls were constructed in 1967 and 1968. Located adjacent to the Clarke Health Center and across from the campus center, these eight-story dorms have suites for five students and double rooms.
 * Meier Hall - Completed in 2010 at a cost of $32.8 million, Meier Hall is named for the twelfth President of Elmira College, Doctor Thomas Keith Meier. Located next to the Gannett-Tripp Library. Gothic style architecture similar to Tompkins Hall, Hamilton Hall, and the Speidel Gymnasium. Co-ed dormitory with two penthouses, single rooms with adjoining baths, two triples with a kitchen and bath, and adjoining double rooms.

Academic buildings

 * Harris Hall - Constructed as an academic building for $175,000 in 1950 and named for Dean Martha Harris. The dedication ceremony, held in October 1950, was attended by Harris, who was then ninety-four.
 * Kolker Hall - Built in 1962 as the science hall. Today, several chemistry and biology labs are inside this building.
 * Watson Fine Arts - Construction on this building was finished in 1958. Today it is used primarily by the music and math departments. There are practice rooms for piano students and a small black box theatre. The student-run radio station WECW was originally located in this building on the third floor before it was moved to the Campus Center in the mid-80s.  This building was named for Mr. and Mrs. Thomas J. Watson.
 * Gannett-Tripp Library - The college library built in 1969. It has more than 300,000 books. The second floor of the library contains the Mark Twain Archive.
 * Carnegie Hall - Constructed in 1911 with funds partially given by Andrew Carnegie. Carnegie was originally designated as the science building and today houses laboratories for the school's science and nursing programs. It is three stories tall and is located south of Gillett Memorial Hall and Alumni Hall. It underwent remodeling in 1963. Carnegie Hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * Fassett Commons - In 1916, Mr. and Mrs. Jacob Fassett donated $30,000 to the college for construction of a dining hall. It became the main dining hall in 1917. It is connected to the north arm of Cowles Hall. Faculty members of the art department have their offices in Fassett Commons, which is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * Speidel Gymnasium/Emerson Hall - This building is the site of the gymnasium, originally built in 1956 and renovated forty years later. Near the gymnasium, one can find several athletic offices, two racquetball courts, the Locke Pool, and the college fitness center. Emerson is home to the theatre program and includes a rehearsal hall, dance studio and Gibson Theatre, a 250 seat proscenium theatre.
 * McGraw Hall - Located on Park Place, it is the main administration building of Elmira College. It was built in 1961 and named for Harold W. McGraw, a former Chairman of Elmira College's Board of Trustees. Several administrative and professors’ offices are located in this building.
 * Curtis McGraw Bookstore - Initially opened in 1961 as a gift in the memory of Curtis W. McGraw, president of the McGraw-Hill Companies in the early 1950s.
 * President's Home - now serves as the Office of Admissions and Financial Aid.
 * Campus Center - Opened in 1965, this building contains the college's dining hall along with MacKenzie's, a renovated bowling alley, classrooms and Student Affairs offices. Also, the broadcasting booth of WECW is located in this building.
 * Clarke Health Center - Built in 1975 and named for Harriet Pratt Clarke from the class of 1890.
 * Mark Twain's Study - This building is in the shape of an octagon, similar to Cowles Hall. Originally existing at Quarry Farm, it now stands adjacent to Cowles Hall. The study was donated to the college in 1952 by Ida Langdon, Mark Twain's niece. Mark Twain's Study is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
 * Lowman Greenhouse - Built in 1942.

Former buildings
For eighty years, Elmira College possessed an observatory built by Professor Charles Farrar. Professor Farrar began buying telescopes for the observatory in 1859, and construction began in August 1859. The observatory first opened for use in April 1860 under the control of the Elmira Academy of Sciences. Twenty years later, control was transferred to Elmira College. Students would gather in the observatory for "dome parties" (102). "The domed building, which occupied a triangular plot fronting on Seventh Street, stood until 1939" (94).

Park Place School was housed in the observatory, and provided students with use of the college facilities. In June 1895, plans were made to construct a building specifically for the school.

There was a chapel at Elmira College, in which a memorial plaque was placed for the first dean of the college, Anna M. Bronson.

Alumnae Hall was built in 1917 as a sophomore dormitory.

The first gymnasium at the college was built in 1924. This wooden gymnasium was built as a temporary structure until a permanent one could be erected.

The school had College Apartments built a block south of Tompkins Hall in 1948.

The first incarnation of the Elmira College museum existed in Cowles Hall, but its artifacts were later moved to Gillett Memorial Hall.

MacKenzie Cottage was originally a residence built sometime around 1890. It became a dormitory in 1916.

Notable alumni and former students

 * Patty Abramson - American venture capitalist
 * Anne Kendrick Benedict - Author of children's literature focusing on scientific topics
 * Gandy Brodie - Fine artist described as a "Second Generation Abstract Expressionist"
 * Olivia Langdon Clemens - wife of Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) and the daughter of Jervis Langdon, one of the college's founding trustees
 * Chip Coffey - A psychic and parapsychologist who has speaking tours with Patti Starr, Coffey was awarded a Pigasus Award "For the psychic who tricked the most people with the least effort".
 * Lena Gilbert Ford - Lyricist of the song "Keep The Home Fires Burning"
 * Wilhelmina Holladay - Co-founder of National Museum of Women in the Arts, Washington, D.C.
 * Fay Kanin - Screenwriter/play author/producer and former president of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences from 1979-1983
 * Harry Palmer - Developer of the Avatar Course, a personal development system translated into 19 languages and taught in over 60 countries. Founder of Star's Edge, Inc.
 * Mary Gray Peck (BA, 1889) - journalist, suffragist, and clubwoman
 * Anna Beach Pratt - Educator and social worker elected to Elmira College's board of trustees in 1887
 * Alice Mary Robertson - First Congresswoman from Oklahoma who supported the rights of Native Americans and opposed certain women's groups
 * Jane Meade Welch - journalist, lecturer
 * Sheila Williams - Editor of Asimov's Science Fiction magazine

title: Elmira College


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Mary Black

Mary Black (born 23 May 1955) is an Irish folk singer. She is well known as an interpreter of both traditional folk and modern material which has made her a major recording artist in her native Ireland.

Background
Mary Black was born into a musical family on Charlemont Street in Dublin, Ireland, and had four siblings. She was educated at St Louis High School, Rathmines. Her father was a fiddler, who came from Rathlin Island off the coast of northern Ireland, and her mother was a singer. Her brothers Shay and Michael Black have their own musical group called the Black Brothers and her younger sister Frances would go on to achieve great success as a singer in the 90s. From this musical background, Mary began singing traditional Irish songs at the age of eight. As she grew older, she began to perform with her siblings (Shay, Michael and Martin Black) in small clubs around Dublin.

1980s
Black joined a small folk band in 1975 called General Humbert, with whom she toured Europe and released two albums, in 1975 and 1978. In 1982 she developed a professional relationship with musician/producer Declan Sinnott and recorded her first solo album, Mary Black. The album performed well in the Irish charts and it went gold. In 1983 it was honoured by the Irish Independent and it is still referred to as one of the best Irish albums of the 1980s. Black ventured into traditional Irish music with the band De Dannan and toured with them around Europe and in the US. The album she recorded with them, Anthem, won the Irish Album of the Year award. During her time with De Dannan, Black also continued with her solo career with albums such as Collected (1984) and Without the Fanfare (1985). These recordings took Black into a more modern musical direction. Along with the success of these releases, IRMA named her Entertainer of the Year in 1986 and Best Female Artist in 1987 and 1988.

For much of her early solo career, Sinnott acted as her producer, guitarist and musical director. This partnership lasted until 1995 when they parted amicably.

Black departed from De Dannan in 1986, and 1987 saw the release of her first multi-platinum Irish album, By the Time it Gets Dark. However, her popularity reached new heights with the release of the ground-breaking album, No Frontiers, in August 1989. It rocketed to the top of the Irish album charts (it stayed in the Top 30 for over a year), and achieved triple-platinum status. Mary's popularity grew in the United States, due to several tours and widespread radio exposure.

1990s
Following the success of No Frontiers in the United States, and the extensive airplay received by the lead track "Columbus", Black became a hit NAC recording artist. In spring 1991, she embarked on an American tour. Her 1991 release, Babes in the Wood, entered the Irish charts at No.1 once again and remained there for six weeks. Her single "The Thorn Upon the Rose" reached No.8 on the Japanese singles chart after it was used in a national railroad television advert. Babes in the Wood performed well in the US and it was voted one of the top 10 albums of the year in the United Kingdom by Today newspaper. The album release brought about a sell-out tour and her first concert at the Royal Albert Hall in January, 1992, which was broadcast on Channel 4 a year later. She was once again named Best Female Artist by the IRMA.

Mary was featured on the cover of Billboard magazine in a story hailing her as "a firm favorite to join the heavy-hitting ranks of such Irish artists as Enya, Sinéad O'Connor and Clannad's Máire Brennan in the international marketplace". Her next album The Holy Ground once again reached the top of the Irish album chart. She also toured the US during October/November 1993, in support of the album. The next project saw Mary join forces with six Irish female artists to record the compilation album, A Woman's Heart. Other artists here included her sister Frances Black, Eleanor McEvoy, Dolores Keane, Sharon Shannon and Maura O'Connell. Its good sales success spawned another album, A Woman's Heart 2.

Black recorded two duets with American folk singer Joan Baez in the spring of 1995, for Baez's album Ring Them Bells. A greatest hits album of Mary's work, Looking Back, was released and she went touring mainly in the US, Germany and Scandinavia, to support the release. Black released three more albums in the 1990s, Circus, Shine, and Speaking with the Angel. She was named "Best Female Artist" in 1994 and 1996 for the fourth and fifth time.

2000–present
Black released her first live album in 2003, Mary Black Live. She also released her only studio album of the 2000s decade, Full Tide. Although it was successful, she has kept a low musical profile in the last few years. In 2008, Black released a compilation album called "Twenty Five Years – Twenty Five Songs" celebrating her career in the music business. It contains 4 remixed tracks, fully remastered songs and 2 brand new recordings. In 2008, Black was invited to sing a duet on Christie Hennessy's posthumous album "The Two of Us" called "If You Were To Fall". She also made a guest appearance on Liam Clancy's album "The Wheels of Life" on the track "Talk To Me of Mendocino". In 2009 she is featured on one track of Steve Martin's album The Crow: New Songs for the 5-String Banjo. In 2011, she released a new album titled Stories from the Steeples. She has sung a duet live with Irish pop band Westlife entitled "Walking in the Air".

A 2014-15 "Last Call" tour with her daughter Róisín O was billed as Black's final international tour although she intended to continue singing after this. Her autobiography Down the Crooked Road (ISBN 9781848271876) was published in October 2014.

In 2017, Black released a remastered version of her 1987 album, "By The Time It Gets Dark", to celebrate its 30th anniversary. The remastered album contains fully remixed and digitally remastered versions of the album's tracks, a brand new song recorded especially for the re-issue called "Wounded Heart" and a rare b-side called "Copper Kettle". Later in the year, Black released a brand new compilation album called "Mary Black Sings Jimmy MacCarthy" containing 6 previously recorded songs, 4 new tracks and one live duet with MacCarthy. Black toured in 2018 promoting the new album.

Musical style
For a number of years, What Hi-Fi? magazine considered Black's voice to be so pure, that it was used as an audiophile benchmark for comparing the sound quality of different high fidelity systems. Music critic and lyricist Michael Leahy once said: "Over the years, Mary Black has come to define what many people see as the essence of Irish woman singers: profound, slightly ethereal and beyond the reaches of trends." Today, Black is held in high esteem in her native Ireland and beyond and is regarded as one of the most important Irish vocalists of her generation.

Personal life
Mary is married to Joe O'Reilly, of Dara Records (established 1983), and they have two sons (Conor and Danny) and a daughter (Róisín). Her son Danny is a member of the Irish rock band The Coronas, while Róisín is performing under the name Róisín O. They reside in Dublin, but spend much time in County Kerry.

Studio albums

 * Mary Black (1982)
 * Collected (1984)
 * Without the Fanfare (1985)
 * By the Time It Gets Dark (1987)
 * No Frontiers (1989)
 * Babes in the Wood (1991)
 * The Holy Ground (1993)
 * Circus (1995)
 * Shine (1997)
 * Speaking with the Angel (1999)
 * Full Tide (2005)
 * Stories from the Steeples (deluxe edition contains 3 bonus tracks, 2011)
 * By The Time It Gets Dark – 30th Anniversary Edition (fully remastered album containing a newly recorded song and bonus material, 2017)

Compilation albums

 * The Best of Mary Black (1990)
 * The Collection (1992)
 * Looking Back (1995)
 * Song for Ireland [USA] (1998)
 * The Best of Mary Black 1991-2001 & Hidden Harvest (2001)
 * Twenty Five Years, Twenty Five Songs (compilation with new and re-recorded material, 2008)
 * Down The Crooked Road – The Soundtrack (soundtrack accompanying Mary's autobiography of the same name, 2014)
 * Mary Black Sings Jimmy MacCarthy (compilation including new and previously recorded material of Jimmy MacCarthy songs, 2017)
 * Mary Black Orchestrated (2019)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Mary Black


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clockcrew (0th nomination)

This page is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of the pages entitled Clockcrew, OrangeClock, and StrawberryClock.

This page is kept as an historic record.

The result of the debate was to delete the article.

Vanity. RickK 00:50, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, it's not even informative vanity. --Starx 02:51, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete them all, vanity. --Stormie 03:24, May 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete all of them, vanity. I mean, they're not even good vanity. DO'Neil 08:03, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Like the Newgrounds entry isn't enough.  --Feedle 08:38, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete all three. -- Cyrius|&#9998 22:07, May 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete all three. Andris 01:06, May 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not funny.Beelzebubs 01:07, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I've hung around Newgrounds a very little and have heard of these people, so they exist.  The pages as they stand are useless vanity, though.  If not delete, redirect to Newgrounds. --Suitov 15:36, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Horrid vanity. Delete all three. - Lucky 6.9 16:22, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Do not delete. The clock crew is a thriving large community, with far more Flash animations, both quality and quantity wise, and yet david firth has his own page, and even 3 pages devoted to his animations, and a community with over 2000 members doesn't even has it's own page?

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue or the deletion should be placed on other relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Never Surrender

Never Surrender may refer to:

 * Never Surrender (film), a 2009 film about mixed martial arts
 * Never Surrender (novel), a 2004 novel by Michael Dobbs
 * Never Surrender: A Galaxy Quest Documentary (film), a 2019 documentary about the film Galaxy Quest
 * Never Surrender, an American band featuring John Porcelly

Albums

 * Never Surrender (album) or the title song, by Triumph, 1982
 * Never Surrender, or the title song, by Blitz, 2005
 * Never Surrender, by Darker Half, 2014

Songs

 * "Never Surrender" (2 Unlimited song), 1998
 * "Never Surrender" (Corey Hart song), 1985
 * "Never Surrender", by Combichrist from Making Monsters
 * "Never Surrender", by DJ Khaled from Suffering from Success
 * "Never Surrender", by Don Felder from Airborne
 * "Never Surrender", by Nana Mizuki
 * "Never Surrender", by Saxon from Denim and Leather
 * "Never Surrender", by Skillet from Awake
 * "Never Surrender", by Stan Bush

title: Never Surrender


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Roland Gift

Roland Lee Gift (born 28 May 1961) is a British musician and actor. He is the former lead vocalist of the pop rock band Fine Young Cannibals.

Early life
Gift was born on 28 May 1961 in the Sparkhill district of Birmingham, to an English mother and an Afro-Caribbean father. He lived in Sparkhill until the age of 11, receiving his early formal education at Anderton Park School and Arden Primary School. His family then moved to Kingston upon Hull, where his mother, Pauline, ran several second-hand clothes shops, while he was a pupil at Kelvin Hall School.

Music career
Gift's first recording was as a saxophonist with Akrylykz, a ska band from Hull. The album was the second release on York's Red Rhino Records. Although this record was unsuccessful, it did bring him to the attention of Andy Cox and David Steele of the Beat. Akrylykz toured with the Beat, which led to them, in around 1985, asking him to be the lead singer of their new band Fine Young Cannibals after their old band, the Beat, had broken up. He also was a guest artist on the Ska City Rockers' "Time Is Tight" single.

In 1990, he was named by People magazine as one of the "50 Most Beautiful People" in the world.

Gift has performed as a solo artist, appearing at the Rewind Festival in Henley. On 13 February 2012, Gift appeared on BBC Radio Solent promoting the gigs and announced a potential new album in 2012. This would be a soundtrack to a film Gift was apparently involved with. "The Prisoner" was played on the show and Gift said this would probably be included in the soundtrack.

He also appeared in Jools Holland's 20th annual Hootenanny show, which aired overnight on BBC2 on 31 December 2012 / 1 January 2013, the last to be recorded at BBC Television Centre. Gift sang the Fine Young Cannibals hits "Good Thing" and "Suspicious Minds".

Gift was a guest vocalist on Jools Holland's 2013 tour.

10 years after his first Hootenanny appearance, Gift re-appeared in Jools Holland's annual Hootenanny show again, which aired overnight on BBC2 on 31 December 2022 / 1 January 2023. Gift sang the Fine Young Cannibals hits "Suspicious Minds" and "Good Thing".

Acting career
In 1987, Gift had his first screen role in the film Sammy and Rosie Get Laid, and also appeared in Out of Order the same year. In 1990 he did his first stage work, playing Romeo in the Hull Truck Theatre's production of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, a production which had a brief run in the United States at the Staller Center for the Arts. He also appeared as a lounge singer (singing songs that were included in the Fine Young Cannibals' album The Raw and the Cooked) in the 1987 film Tin Men, directed by Barry Levinson.

In 1989, he appeared in Scandal as Johnny Edgecombe, Christine Keeler's boyfriend.

In December 1992, he began the first of five appearances as the evil Immortal Xavier St. Cloud in the television series Highlander: The Series, and appeared in a 1993 episode of the Yorkshire Television series Heartbeat (Ser. 2 Ep 5). He also had a small role as the jazz saxophonist Eddie Mullen in the mini-series Painted Lady (1997), starring Helen Mirren, and appeared in the movie The Island of the Mapmaker's Wife (2001).

In 1997, he appeared in a series of commercials to launch BankDirect, an internet and phone based bank.

In 2020, he starred as Johnny Holloway, an ex-pop star sent to jail, in the BBC Radio 4 musical drama Return to Vegas. Gift wrote the play and co-composed the music together with Ben Barson, brother of Madness's Mike Barson).

Personal life
Gift has three sisters, Helga, Ragna, and Jay, and one brother, Paul.

One of Gift's two sons, Louis, was a member of an experimental acrobatic circus company called the Barely Methodical Troupe, which staged a public performance at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 2016.

His wife Louise died in 2019.

title: Roland Gift


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Talk:Combat shotgun

the m500 is not used by the US army
they use the m590 Edited the rude comment out, no need for it here.

wrong ink for the pistole
it links to the currency, and does it really exist?

Copyright concerns
Almost all of the information in this article is taken word for word from. The images are also taken from the same website from the various shotgun pages. --Werbwerb 03:27, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

Questions on Ammunition section
Couple of claims here that I'd like to query - not being a shooter or firearms expert myself, i'll post here for others to check rather than editing myself.

1. "Buckshot is also used for hunting large game, up to the size of bear or deer" - does anyone really use buckshot for bear?? I'd always heard that the largest game buckshot was suitable for was small- to medium deer (hence, buckshot...). While i don't shoot or hunt myself, i know people who do, and have some knowledge, and I've never heard anyone say buckshot was suitable for bear. Maybe the writer meant boar?

 * Could be; buckshot is a bit light on penetration to use against bears. Generally for bear you want something that will penetrate DEEP, because if you don't stop the bear, it might stop you.  .45-70 is generally the lightest thing recommended for defense against bear, the Marlin 1895 with a short barrel being on par with a shotgun for size and weight, and provides a much tougher bullet.

2."Slugs give the shotgun greater reach, are effective against most body armor and can even disable a vehicle." Really? Slugs can disable a vehicle? Again, I've never heard that (at least not that they are any more effective than any other bullet type -e.g any of the standard military rifle calibres)the ks-23 slug round can destroy an engine block. Also, "effective against most body armour" seems misleading from my reading. Against NIJ Levels I, IIA and II, maybe. But most military, if they are wearing armour, wear at least level IIIA, if not Level IV (with solid rifle plates). Shotgun slugs will certainly not penetrate Rifle Plates, and probably not Level IIIA or above soft armour edit: it will NOT penetrate level IIIa body armor as confirmed by the box o' truth. See http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm for a practical test, and http://www.bulletproofme.com/NIJ_Test_Rounds_CHART.shtml for some data- NIJ level IIIA is listed as stopping .44 Magnum, which has a higher velocity than most shotgun slugs, and Level III will stop 7.62 x 51 NATO (.308 Winchester) FMJ, so it would certainly stop a slug. Shotgun slugs may be effective against lower level armour, but not against most military armour- which is the context of the article.

 * Most body armor is lighter than military stuff, and a shotgun slug has the advantage of a lot of mass, and can break ribs even if it doesn't penetrate--just look at the armor tests done with clay backing, the slugs leave fist-sized imprints in the clay. A slug will also punch right though sheet metal that will turn smallbore bullets, so effectiveness against vehicles is certainly more than any 5.56mm military cartridge, and probably compared to the 7.62x39mm, unless the shooter can get a square shot to prevent deflection.  The 12 gauge slug is still the ultimate brush gun, because even a twig can deflect nearly all smallbore rifle bullets, but a slug (or any other big, fat, low velocity bullet) will cut right through it with minimal deflection--Chuck Hawk's site mentions tests run using shots fired through a woven twig screen at a target at varying ranges behind the screen, and high velocity pointed bullets were off target in a matter of feet.

As i said, i'm not an expert, just an interested web-browser. would prefer to have my conclusions checked but someone with a little more expertise!

Ian, 06.24.06

 * Actually, the point about slugs is probably moot--I'm not sure the military really uses them. Military teams mix shotguns with assault rifles, so the shotgun is going to be used purely in a short-range role, loaded with buckshot for room clearing, door breaching, and the like.  I'll take a look at the article again tomorrow and do some pruning.  scot 19:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Thats exactly the kind of response i was hoping for- someone with more knowledge to check over the article. Given what you've said, i would say the reference to bear should be removed. Shotgun slug certainly ain't 45-70! I'll leave you do decide on the body armour reference- i accept that most armour isn't military level, but the context of that sentence is the military use of slug, so it seems some acknowledgement that even high level soft armour (let alone rifle plates) will stop a slug ought to be in there. --82.20.244.207 22:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)Ian, 06.25.06

 * So far, I've found a reference on the DOD website for a JAN-S-726 spec for 12 gauge ammunition, but it was canceled in 1949, and they don't have the scanned doc online. The 3443G spec for shotguns (currently filled by the  Mossberg 590A1 mentions in section 3.17.3 "standard velocity commercial 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 00 buckshot (9 pellets) maximum load cartridges conforming to SAAMI standards".  Also, the 3.17.4 sections (looking at rev. D of the spec, from 1975) involve patterning the shotgun, with a minimum of 1/3 of the pellets in a 30 inch diameter circle at 40 yards.  That's a pretty wide pattern (as expected from a cylinder bore) and that puts the effective range at under 40 ayrds.  Unfortunately, I can't get into the Army's doctrine library (gotta have a military supplied ID to get in, it used to be open to the public for non-classified stuff) so I can't look up the shotgun doctrine stuff.  I know someone active in the OK Nat'l Guard (shipping out in a few months, in fact), I'll see if he can look it up for me.  scot 16:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, whaddaya know, I happened to have the Army Ammunition Data Sheets for small caliber ammuntition (TM 43-0001-27) from April 1994 on my computer. They list 5 types of 12 gauge ammunition:

 * No designation, paper cased 00 buckshot load, probably the old pre-1949 spec stuff
 * M162, all plastic case 00 buckshot load for guard/combat use
 * M19, all brass case 00 buckshot load for guard/combat use
 * M257, plastic case (with brass rim in illustration), #4 hard antimony lead shot, guard duty/riot control use in 20" full choke barrel
 * M274, paper or plastic case, #4 hard chilled shot, small game and riot control use

 * And, just as a side note, the specs list a .45 caliber line throwing blank, used in a .45-70 line throwing gun...who'd have thought that the .45-70 was still in the military inventory. scot 16:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

"Scot", I assume the page as currently altered is your work? If so, thanks! Far more specific now, and confines itself to current and past ammunition actually used by the military, and its applications. This is surely the way to go! --82.20.244.207 16:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)Ian., 06.26.06

 * Yep, "Fluzwup" is my user ID and that was my edit. BTW, if you're interested in the history of combat shotguns, from the old "buck and ball" musket loads to the current cutting edge, read the JSCS Program report.  It makes quite interesting reading, especially the statis the Brits did on hit probabilities:  1 in 11 for an assault rifle, 1 in 8 for an SMG, 1 in 5ish for a shotgun.  Which just goes to support my long held belief that the search for the "all purpose" cartridge is a pipe dream, and infantry squads should be composed of a couple of Designated Riflemen with battle rifles for long range work, and the rest split between assault rifles, for medium range and suppressive fire, and shotguns, for close in work and special purpose stuff like door breaching work, and the new Frag-12 experimental indirect fire rounds.  You'd want everyone crosstrained, of course, so you could very the assault rifle/shotgun mix as needed for the mission--more shotguns for urban work, more rifles for flat terrain.  DR's you'd probably want to keep constant, even in urban work they'd be good for countersniper fire.

 * One more thing I might do is yank the police section. Police use falls more under the riot shotgun category than the combat shotgun, so I think a cross-link directing people here for military use and there for police use would be best.  scot 18:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree with you about the police section. And thanks for the link- absolutely fascinating! Again, thanks for your improvements to this article.

--82.20.244.207 14:19, 1 July 2006 (UTC)Ian, 07.01.06

Legality
I seem to remember reading that there's some international law (Geneva Convention?) that forbids the use of shotguns in combat. Anyone know anything about this?

* Septegram * Talk * Contributions * 22:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No such law, to the best of my knowledge. Germany did, however, protest the use of combat shotguns by the US during WW I, but the outcome was that there was no violation of any treaties or conventions, and no changes were made.  Shotguns were also used later in WW II, Korea, and Viet Nam, and are also used even today by US military forces. Yaf 03:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I believe there was a provision added to the Geneva Convention at one point, but no one signed that provision. Combat shotguns are quite simply to useful.--LWF 14:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

 * The best analysis I've run across was a legal breif by a US Amry JAG officer, who did an historical analysis of shotgun use in combat, and a legal review of it's legitamacy according to the laws of war, when the military was working on what became the M1014 joint combat shotgun. The full breif is here.  To sum up, shotguns have been effectively used for as long as firearms have been around; the buck and ball loading in a musket, or a handfull of pistol balls in a musketoon were functionally equivalent to a buckshot load, and when rifled muskets came into use during the American Civil War, the fowling piece (which is what shotguns were called before they were called shotguns) served with both sides.  The first challeng under the laws of war was when the Germans issued a protest to Allied use of trench guns in 1918, on the grounds that they caused undue suffering and therefore were forbidden by the terms of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which states:

 * That the only legitimate object which States should endeavour to accomplish during war is to weaken the military forces of the enemy;

 * That for this purpose it is sufficient to disable the greatest possible number of men;

 * That this object would be exceeded by the employment of arms which uselessly aggravate the sufferings of disabled men, or render their death inevitable;

 * That the employment of such arms would, therefore, be contrary to the laws of humanity;

 * The US Army's position on this was that a shotgun was designed to inflict casualties on mulitple targets at long range, just like a bursting artillery shell--exploding shells of over 400 grams are allowed, while exploding rifle bullets such as those used by the Russians were banned by the treaty (this is also what limits the Raufoss Mk 211 to antimateriel use). And, just like a bursting artillery shells, standing too close to the burst results in far more serious wounds, but that's acceptable because it's a side effect of trying to wound as many targets as possible, which is allowed.  Likewise, the shotgun, loaded with buckshot, would wound multiple targets at long range (far less lethally than a rifle or machine gun round), and if you get too close, the multiple projectile impacts are just a side effect.  The other argument that might ban the use of buckshot would be the  Hauge Convention of 1899, Declaration III, which bans:

 * ...the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

 * This was targeted at the British Dum-dum rounds, which were .303 British rounds loaded with jacketed hollow point bullets. The use of pure lead buckshot, which does expand pretty easily even at low buckshot velocities, could be considered banned by this.  However, since this soft buckshot deforms upon firing as well, resulting in wider patterns, shorter range, and lowered penetration, the military uses either plated or antimony hardened buckshot, which does not deform significantly more than the typical military full metal jacket bullet upon impact.  Standard shotgun slugs in civilian and police use do deform very significantly upon impact, so those would likely be prohibited; a non-expanding slug made of a hard allow, such as brass or copper, would probably be allowable, depending on comparitive performance against the FMJ rounds.

 * Germany, in their manual on the laws of war, does prohibit the use of the shotgun in combat; however, the German military also uses a former Soviet copy of the US M18A1 Claymore Antipersonnel Mine, which is functionally identical to a giant shotgun, only with a spread measured in radians, not degrees, of arc. The only restrictions on claymore type mines are general restrictions on landmines; since a shotgun is individually targeted and "command detonated", then it's exempt from those restrictions.

 * On the other side, shotguns ARE really useful. Loaded with buckshot and used at ranges of 35 meters or less, they are far and away the most effective infantry weapon, vastly superior to either an assault rifle or submachine gun, and are effective out to 75 meters.  Add to that the vast array of rounds, such as door breaching rounds, flechette, slugs (assuming a sufficiently non-deforming design), and exotic stuff like the Frag-12 fragmentation grenade rounds, and considering that a mil-spec  Mossberg 590A1 is running the military a whopping $316 each, I'm of the opinion that the military needs to be running about 50/50 shotguns and assault rifles in jungle or urban operations.  scot 18:37, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?
in one of the sections there is a large space of blank. has someone been blanking off pages? (Gooly 20:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC))

No that is just a side effect of picture placement.--LWF 20:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Effectiveness
I'm removing the table from this section since http://www.frfrogspad.com/ is far from being a reliable source. Plus I'm in the military and my primary weapon is a shotgun, and if that's all the hits they could get at 50 yards, then they obviously can't shoot or don't know how to handle the weapon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.252.4.21 (talk) 07:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Inaccuracies/omissions.
I intend to edit this article to add some information I came across while reading a book on warfare in Gallipoli (which references many other sources); it turns out that an Australian Major was using a sawn-off shotgun as a trench gun during the fighting there, and it made a "terrible mess" including taking one man's head "clean off", and it turns out the Turks submitted an appeal based on a UN convention and the Australian or British higher-ups confiscated his "toy", to which he was bitterly disappointed. So yeah just letting you know the statement that only the Germans protested is inaccurate and I will make some cited edits tomorrow when I get a chance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.23.200 (talk) 15:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

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Incorrect information on U.S. military trench shotguns
The statement about M1987 shotguns being capable of "slam firing" is factually incorrect. The cited source is also incorrect and simply having statements and opinions published by a publisher focusing on weapons/firearms/guns does not make a person a reliable source. Current "facts" that are demonstrably false by simply testing the actual firearms to see if the state "facts" are or not true doesn't meet any standard of "proof" accepted by the so-called experts who have believed in the facts despite never have personally tested them because it cannot undo decades of misinformation, published "facts" that are actually lies, and the accepted "expert" status of those that manage to have their incorrect or false statements published. Winchester 1897 shotguns can NOT be slam-fired and the major reason Winchester released the slightly redesigned 1897 only a few years after the 1893 was that the 1893 WAS capable of being slam-fired both intentionally and inadvertently. John Browning modified the design slightly and slam-firing was made a physical impossibility in the 1897 because the hammer can not and will not strike the firing pin with sufficient force to ignite the primer if it is "riding the bolt" as the bolt goes forward into battery. By definition, a "slam fire" occurs OUT OF BATTERY which is what makes it a dangerous phenomenon.

Even with no "trigger disconnector", the hammer of an 1897 can not fall until the bolt is "in battery" and if it falls at any point prior to the bolt being in battery, it will not strike the firing pin with sufficient force to ignite the primer and the firing pin itself is not long enough to reach a "floating" cartridge only being pushed ahead of the bolt until the shell is chambered with the bolt in battery behind it. When the trigger is held to the rear, the trigger sear is held from engagement with the hammer sear but the hammer is still held reward by an internal "safety sear" that only disengages to release the hammer once the bolt is in battery. When the trigger is held rearward and the slide or "pump" is cycled, the internal movements are obviously invisible and the human eye is not fast enough to see the bolt stop its foward motion - and thus be in battery - a fraction of a second before the hammer drops. There is also a "quarter-cock notch" in the mechanism that prevents the hammer from dropping fully against the bolt even if the hammer is held to the rear intentionally by the shooter and released prior to the bolt going into battery.

As I said, these changes were made to "correct" a non-existent "flaw" that was exposed when 1893s were intentionally or inadvertently "slam-fired" by inexperienced users attempting to duplicate "speed shooting" demonstrations made with the then-new shotguns as promotional events produced by Winchester. The demonstration shooters were both using "trick" ammo with low pressures and recoil and were allowing the trigger to reset after a shot while appearing to hold it rearward during cycling of the action and letting the forward motion of the slide mechanism and shotgun itself pull the trigger back forward against their finger to fire another cartridge. Even if their timing was off and the result was an cartridge fired "out of battery" there were no firearm failures due to the low pressures and high-quality, brand-new firearms. When inexperienced shooters loaded shotguns and particularly used shotguns previously used FOR such demonstrations with conventional, "full power" ammunition and fired it in large volumes and also unknowingly fired the then-new 2 3/4" loads in 2 1/2" chambers, the result could be a "slam fire" and a catastrophic failure since the bolt and shooter's strength were usually not capable of completely jamming in the longer cartridge to the point the bolt was fully locked forward. A catastrophic failure was therefore possible for multiple reasons in multiple situations but with the usual result being the bolt was ejected out of the receiver and into the shooter's face.

John Browning's insistence that Winchester fix what Winchester regarded as an operator error situation by modifying the original design to incorporate both safety features to prevent slam-fires AND the ability to perform "rapid fire" shooting by holding the trigger rearward and cycling the action SAFELY resulted in the 1897 shotgun. And unlike the 1893, all 1897 shotguns have 2 3/4" chambers so the pressure spikes resulting from a 2 3/4" shell (paper cases at the time) being jammed into and fired in a 2 1/2" chamber simply could not occur.

The article itself is factually incorrect even referring to the mechanisms within "modern" pump shotguns that prevent trigger-rearward "rapid-fire" as a "disconnector" since disconnectors are used in concealed-hammer firearms to disconnect the trigger from the hammer with the bolt or slide CLOSED so that another release mechanism trips the hammer for firing. In any repeating or semi-auto firearm disconnectors are used to prevent triggers from firing the gun altogether with the bolt or slide in battery. A magazine disconnector prevents firing without a magazine installed, for example. A "trigger safety" is another type of disconnector that prevents the actual trigger from firing the gun until a small safety lever within the trigger itself is pressed rearward to engage the trigger disconnector or more accurately trigger connector.

The only firearms that use a "trigger disconnector" of the style its implied 1897s are flawed for lacking are SELECT-FIRE firearms capable of both semi-auto and full-auto fire. In that case, when the firearm is in semi-auto, the trigger is connected to the hammer sear at all times and "slam firing" is theoretically made impossible by a "floating" firing pin that should not be able to strike the primer with sufficient force to fire the cartridge unless the bolt is fully in battery, the cartridge is properly headspaced and the hammer falls its full travel distance to strike the rear of the floating pin.

In full-auto "mode", the "trigger disconnector" keeps the trigger sear from engaging the hammer as it travels rearward, the hammer is instead held rearward by the auto sear and as the bolt travels back forward and into battery the bolt itself triggers the auto sear to release the hammer, allowing it to fall and strike the firing pin. Even if the trigger is partially released during the natural recoil and forward and rearward movements of the firearm firing full-auto, the trigger disconnector prevents reset until the trigger is fully released and the auto sear continues to be the only sear engaging the hammer sear as the bolt pushed it rearward and disengaging to release the hammer as the bolt travels forward into battery.

Difficulties and misunderstandings are natural and inevitable with so many different firearms and designs in existence, but the article, the author of the passage claiming 1897s can "slam fire" when only semi-auto and full-auto firearms are capable of a TRUE slam-fire and the fact 1897 itself exists because great effort and expense was put into fixing what was only a problem for inexperienced, inattentive or ignorant shooters are all true "facts" and well-known by the types of "experts" who spend the overwhelming majority of their "gun time" using, building, repairing, servicing, maintaining and handling firearms and very little time WRITING about them. I earlier stated that there are many cases of the "facts" widely and steadfastly believed and communicated by even "acknowledge experts" and "reliable sources" being completely false, and I will give another example simply to demonstrate that an "unreliable source" like the "anonymous" Wikipedia editor I am has virtually NO CHANCE of ever communicating the FACTS that automatically prove the conventional wisdom of "experts" wrong.

Here is my example:

In almost any and in almost every published "reliable source" of information on U.S. M1 "Garand" rifles (technically speaking there is no such thing since the U.S. military "adopted" Garand's eventual "design" after he and others made the required changes but not his original design and designated the "adopted" rifle "91st line) U.S. RIFLE (2nd line) CALIBER .30M1")_the author or speaker "aka reliable source" will claim that a fundamental "flaw" of the "M1 Garand" was/is that the rifle can not be "topped off" once a full en-block clip is inserted and rounds have been fired from it, creating what is considered a "partial clip" or "partial magazine", and that the rifle can NOT returned to "full capacity" or a "full magazine" or "full clip" condition by adding additional loose cartridges to or inserting them into the partial clip or magazine. No doubt this completely false claim results from someone looking at the design of the rifle and the "mechanical feed" function or appearance thereof where the magazine "follower" in the rifle itself appears to be mechanically linked to and dependent on bolt-cycling as the bolt and mechanism is either manually operated by hand or automatically operated by the gas system during firing.

Conventional wisdom appears to be that since there is no separate "follower spring" and there are some small parts involved the actually connect the follower to the OPERATING ROD SPRING and also enable the clip ejection function when the last round of an en-block is chambered and fired, then the follower itself must be "mechanically driven" BY the operating rod and gas system, which would preclude pushing it down once the rifle has chambered and fired a round from a fresh en-bloc. That is completely and totally false. The "follower" IS provided spring tension to allow it to elevate cartridges BY the operating rod spring but it at no point is every mechanically locked in any position and can be pushed downward against spring pressure to allow additional rounds to be inserted into a partial en-block just as the magazine follower of any other repeating rifle with an integral or removable magazine can be. That is considered "topping off" a firearm and the "experts" and "reliable sources" seem to unanimously agree that its impossible. I believed it impossible for quite some time until just thinking about the firearm and studying my OWN rifle and disassembling and reassembling it and finally TESTING THE CLAIM revealed to me that just as I'd already convinced myself by thinking and observing alone, I could "top off" my Garand or any other simply by treating it just like any other bolt-action rifle.

It is a slightly different process since the "bolt latch function of the M1 Garand only locks back the bolt when there is NO en-bloc in the rifles internal magazine and no external lock button or release exists, but by using one hand to hold back the bolt with an en-bloc inserted, the other hand can be used to inert additional rounds directly into the en-bloc to "top off" the clip, magazine and rifle. That is cold hard fact and in fact at least one YouTube video exists demonstrating it, but the "experts" will still and will probably always will claim that "topping of a Garand" is impossible. Just like the "reliable source" that got his b.s. claims about Winchester 1897 "slam fires" is only considered a RELIABLE SOURCE because somebody copyrighted and published his fake "facts".

I don't know all the Wikipedia rules about "primary sources" and "reliable sources" but I know that "original research" is NOT considered a "reliable source" so even if I made a video or got a book published with my CORRECT facts published and copyrighted, what I learned through thought and theory and experimentation that disproves the "fact" and render it a lie in EITHER CASE doesn't "count". Which seems like a pretty RIDICULOUS want to provide facts from reliable sources and create not just an "encyclopedia" but a REFERENCE PUBLICATION that should contain either PURE FACT or NOTHING with the "source" completely IRRELEVANT. The guns are what they are because that's how they were designed. That somebody or a whole "community" of somebodies believes what they hear or read instead of picking up the gun that may be in their own safe or on the bench in front of them just feet or inches away doesn't make something a "fact" and the "reliable sources" aren't sources of anything but fiction.

And as long as Wikipedia editors are more interested in being "civil" than in being RIGHT and would rather "compromise" or "reach a consensus" than stand up and say HEY! THIS RELIABLE SOURCE/NO OWN RESEARCH THING IS BULLSH!T BECAUSE VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING EVER CREATED BY MAN IS THE RESULT OF THE ORIGINAL RELIABLE SOURCE THAT INVENTED IT USING HIS OR HER OWN ORIGINAL RESEARCH TO DO SO!, then Wikipedia will continue to be plaything for those who apparently have nothing better to do than obsess over and write about and when necessary delete the hard work and "own research" of others who DID have better things to do.

So, there's my take on just one of MANY complete farces of encyclopedic articles on firearms. I'm sure any attempts I made to actually edit them with the truth would be "vandalism" or unacceptable because I have no reliable source to disprove a lie, since lies can not be disproved being unproven to begin with. Which brings up another interesting aspect of Wikipedia. If I publish a YouTube video of me demonstrating the operation of my M1897 Trench Gun or topping off my M1 Garand and cite and link and use those as my "primary source", are they inadmissible and unacceptable because they're "original research"? Or was my "original research" actually conducted as I read what I thought sounded like b.s. claims and did the experimenting that led to my own "discovery" of the actual facts?

That SHOULD be a good topic for what SHOULD be many pages of theoretical discussions and postulations in an attempt to reach "consensus" given the thousand-word essays supposedly intelligent, educated, sophisticated and well-spoken "editors" and "administrators" need to communicate a very simple analysis and their opinion on very innocuous things like whether or not two people with different "facts" are "edit warring" when each believes in his or her "fact" and has a "reliable source" to cite as "evidence of it". Not to mention the multi-paragraph explanations people will write to communicate what isn't an opinion at all because they made no actual decision or judgement as they "decided" to "support" or "oppose" some "community action" that requires not a VOTE but a "consensus".

Are encyclopedias supposed to be democratic? Would Albert Einstein be able to get his articles past the Wikipedia fact firewalls as they exist today?

Anyway, if you want to block me again for the umpteenth time simply because I don't play by the "rules" I don't think anybody ever voted on when they first started creating this "open source reference" that relies entirely on publicly-owned and PUBLISHED resources but is controlled completely by a handful of private citizens. So I guess what I'm saying is that I reject your "rules" just like you reject my research. And since my research proves facts and disproves lies and your rules result in lies being published and facts being deleted, all I have to say is I'm right and no amount of blocking or length of time is ever going to change that.

Have a nice day, Wikipedians and especially fearless Administrators and selfless and obsessive reviewers and critics and judges of all edits all the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.100.66 (talk) 18:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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