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Harry Kellar

Harry Kellar (born Heinrich Keller; July 11, 1849 – March 10, 1922) was an American magician who presented large stage shows during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Kellar was a predecessor of Harry Houdini and a successor of Robert Heller and Isaiah Hughes, under whom he apprenticed. He was often referred to as the "Dean of American Magicians" and performed extensively on five continents. One of his most memorable stage illusions was the levitation of a girl advertised as the "Levitation of Princess Karnac", copied from an illusion invented by John Nevil Maskelyne, which was later bought by Harry Blackstone Sr.

He was a longtime customer of the Martinka Magic Company, which built many of his illusions and sets, including the "Blue Room".

Early life
As is the case with most magicians, there is little of Kellar's early life that can be confirmed. His real name was Heinrich Keller and he was born to German immigrants in Erie, Pennsylvania. He was sometimes called Henry, but later changed it to Harry. He also changed the spelling of his last name from Keller to Kellar, to avoid confusion with Robert Heller. As a child, Kellar loved to play dangerous games and was known to play chicken with passing trains.

Kellar apprenticed under a druggist and frequently experimented with various chemical mixtures. On one occasion, Kellar reportedly blew a hole in the floor of his employer's drugstore. Rather than confront the wrath of his parents, Kellar stowed away on a train and became a vagabond. He was only ten years old at the time.

Kellar was befriended by a British-born minister of religion from upstate New York. He offered to adopt Kellar and pay for his education if he would study to also become a minister. One evening Kellar saw the performance of a traveling magician, "The Fakir of Ava", the stage name of Isaiah Harris Hughes, and, after the show, Kellar "immediately got the urge to go on the stage". He later told Houdini that, "I became very restless, bought books on magic and finally left my friend and benefactor".

While working on a farm in Buffalo, New York, Kellar answered an ad in the newspaper that was placed by Hughes, who was looking for an assistant. Kellar was hired at the age of 12, and at the age of 16, he gave his first solo performance in Dunkirk, Michigan; it was a disaster and Kellar went back to work with Hughes. Two years later, Kellar tried again with better results, but, as he was in poor financial condition, his early career often consisted of borrowing equipment for the show and avoiding creditors.

Career
In 1869, Kellar began working with "The Davenport Brothers and Fay", which was a group of stage spiritualists made up of Ira Erastus Davenport, William Henry Davenport and William Fay. With the Davenports and Fay, Kellar learned a lot about how to conduct a successful show. Kellar spent several years working with them, until 1873, when he and Fay parted ways with the Davenports and embarked on a "world tour" through Central and South America.

In Mexico, they were able to make $10,000. In 1875, the tour ended in Rio de Janeiro with an appearance before Emperor Dom Pedro II.

Then, on their way to a tour in England, Boyne, the ship Kellar and Fay were sailing on, sank in the Bay of Biscay. Lost in the wreckage were Kellar's equipment and clothing, along with the ship's cargo of gold, silver. and uncut diamonds. After the shipwreck, Kellar was left with only the clothes on his back and a diamond ring he was wearing. Afterwards, his bankers in New York cabled him telling him that his bank had failed. Desperate for money, Kellar sold his ring and parted ways with Fay, who left to rejoin the Davenports. Kellar was able to perform in Dutch, French, and English, and subsequently toured across the world.

After visiting John Nevil Maskelyne's and George Alfred Cooke's theater, called the Egyptian Hall, Kellar was inspired and liked the idea of performing in one spot. He loved the illusions Maskelyne and Cook performed but it was Buatier de Kolta, then playing there, who performed 'The Vanishing Birdcage', a trick that Kellar decided he must have and spent his remaining money to buy it from him. Kellar borrowed $500 from Junius Spencer Morgan (father of J.P. Morgan), and returned to the United States to try to retrieve his funds from a bank transaction he had initiated when he was in Brazil. Knowing that mail from Brazil was slow, he was able to recover all of the $3,500. With the money, Kellar started a "troupe" based on Masekylne's and Cooke's in England, even going so far as naming his theater the Egyptian Hall.

In 1878, Kellar returned to England and invested $12,000 into purchasing new equipment, including a version Maskelyne's whist-playing automaton "Psycho".

After a disappointing tour in South America, Kellar cancelled his remaining shows and returned to New York. Shortly before arriving, Kellar was told of the death of magician Robert Heller. The New York Sun accused Kellar of violating Heller's personality rights, saying that "Heller is scarcely dead before we read of 'Kellar the Wizard'." The article goes on to say, "Of course 'Kellar' aims to profit by the reputation that Heller left, by adopting a close imitation of Heller's name. This is not an uncommon practice." Kellar attempted to prove that his name had always been Keller with an "e" and that he had actually changed it years previously to try to avoid being confused with Heller. He also pointed out that Heller had changed his name from William Henry Palmer. The public was still unreceptive to him, causing Kellar to eventually cancel his upcoming shows in the United States and return to Brazil.

After another world tour in 1882, Kellar was performing again in Melbourne and met a fan, Eva Lydia Medley, who came backstage to get his autograph. Kellar promised to send postcards and letters from his travels. They exchanged letters for the next five years.

Kellar started his version of Egyptian Hall in December 1884, after renting out an old Masonic temple on Chestnut Street in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. After 264 performances, Kellar closed the theater on June 24, 1885. Shortly after Kellar left, the theater burned down.

While Kellar was performing in America, Medley arrived a few weeks before his appearance in Erie, Pennsylvania. She played the cornet in the show and started to learn about the magic business. Kellar and Medley were married on November 1, 1887, at a church in Kalamazoo, Michigan. She played an important role in Kellar's shows in the coming years – not only did she play a part in many of his upcoming illusions, but she also provided music for the shows.

Kellar returned to Philadelphia in October 1891 and opened his second Egyptian Hall at Concert Hall, located also on Chestnut Street. On April 30, 1892, Kellar ended a successful seven-month run at his second Egyptian Hall. Kellar then returned to the road.

During the periods Kellar was abroad, another magician, Alexander Herrmann, had become famous and Kellar found himself with a rival on his return to the United States. Herrmann often criticized Kellar's lack of sleight of hand and claimed he preferred to use mechanical tricks instead. While he lacked sleight of hand, Kellar was so good in using misdirection, that he said a "...brass band playing at full blast can march openly across the stage behind me, followed by a herd of elephants, yet no one will realize that they went by." Herrmann died on December 17, 1896.

Later life

Kellar retired in 1908, and allowed Howard Thurston to be his successor. Kellar had met Thurston, who was doing card tricks, while on vacation in Paris, France. Kellar did his final show at Ford's Theatre in Baltimore, Maryland. Kellar eventually moved to his house in Los Angeles, California. Kellar's wife died two years later.

Kellar was often visited by other magicians, notably including Harry Houdini. On November 11, 1917, Houdini put together a show for the Society of American Magicians to benefit the families of those who died in the sinking of the USS Antilles by a German U-boat (who have been considered the first American casualties of World War I). Houdini got Kellar to come out of retirement to perform one more show.

The show took place on the largest stage at the time, the Hippodrome. After Kellar's performance, Kellar started to leave, but Houdini stopped him, saying that "America's greatest magician should be carried off in triumph after his final public performance." The members of the Society of American Magicians helped Kellar into the seat of a sedan chair, and lifted it up. The 125-piece Hippodrome orchestra played "Auld Lang Syne" while Kellar was slowly taken away.

Kellar lived in retirement, until he died on March 3, 1922, from a pulmonary hemorrhage brought on by influenza. He was interred in Angelus-Rosedale Cemetery in Los Angeles.

"The Levitation of Princess Karnac"

Kellar supposedly developed this trick by abruptly walking onto the stage during a show by Maskelyne, seeing what he needed to know, and leaving. Unable to duplicate it, Kellar hired another magician to help build another, but eventually designed a new trick with the help of the Otis Elevator Company. Another version built by Kellar was purchased by Harry Blackstone, Sr., who used the trick for many years. The Buffalo writer John Northern Hilliard wrote that the levitation was a marvel of the twentieth century and "the crowning achievement of Mr. Kellar's long and brilliant career."

The trick was done by a disguised machine hidden from the audience's perspective. Kellar would claim the woman onstage, sleeping on a couch, was a Hindu princess, who he would levitate and then move a hoop back and forth through the woman's body to prove she was not being suspended. Inside the "princess"'s dress was a flat board she was resting on, which was connected to a metal bar going out the side into the backstage. The other end of the bar connected to a machine to raise and lower the woman, blocked from view by the curtain and her own body. To allow Kellar to "prove" with the hoop that she was floating, the bar was in a rough "S" shape, letting him move the hoop through the length of her body in any direction.

"The Nested Boxes"
Kellar borrows six finger rings from members of audience. He loads them into the barrel of a pistol, aims and fires the pistol at a chest that is hanging on the side of the stage. The chest is opened and inside is another, smaller chest. Inside that are six boxes nested in each other. As each is opened, they are stacked on top of each other and inside the smallest one are the five rings each tied with ribbon to flowers. The five rings are returned to their owners. The owner of the sixth ring wonders what happened to hers, with Kellar pretending not to notice.

He continues with his next trick, which is a variation of Robert-Houdin's "Inexhaustible Bottle". Audience members call out different beverages like wine, whiskey, lemonade, or just water. Each one is poured from the same bottle and the audience acknowledges that they are indeed receiving their requested drinks. Once the bottle is empty, Kellar takes it and breaks it open. Inside is a guinea pig with a sash around its neck which has the sixth ring attached to it. The ring is eventually handed back to its owner.

A variation of the trick was performed in front of United States President Theodore Roosevelt and his children, Ethel, Archie, Quentin and Kermit. Ethel was the owner of the sixth ring and after Kellar had returned her ring, he asked if she would also like to have the guinea pig as a pet. Then Kellar wrapped the guinea pig in paper and handed it back to Ethel. When it was opened, inside was a bouquet of pink roses.

"The Vanishing Lamp"
A lamp is seen set on top of a glass table. Kellar covers the glowing lamp with a thin cloth. Kellar told the audience that each evening, the lamp would be returned to its purported, original owner in India at a specific time. As a bell sounded out the current time of day, Kellar loaded a pistol and aimed it towards the lamp. At the last chime, Kellar fired the pistol. The lamp seemed to melt away, with the cloth falling to the stage.

Kellar was known to have a short temper, and once, after an incident in which the "Vanishing Lamp" failed to vanish, he took an axe to the defective prop. Later Kellar built another one that would continue to work reliably long after his retirement.

Publications

 * Kellar's Aids in Arithmetical Calculations and Professional Tours Around the World (1885)
 * A Magician's Tour: Up and Down and Round About the Earth (1890)
 * High Caste Indian Magic (1893)
 * Kellar's Wonder Book (1903)

title: Harry Kellar


text: User:Bendzh

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Bendzh


text:
User talk:Bendzh

Leave me a message

Playwright/Dramatists controversy
Hey...I was thinking of moving the Category:Playwright stuff to Category:Dramatists (see Category talk:Playwright. What do you think? john k 20:34, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Sure, 'Dramatists' is a lot more academic. --[[User:HamYoyo|HamYoyo (Talk)]] 20:36, May 31, 2004 (UTC)

 * It might be a good idea to discuss this more fully before implementing it. Changing categories is a lot of work under current circumstances, and it will quickly become annoying if the classifications are decided by virtue of who acts most forcefully in implementing his decisions rather than decided by logic or concensus. - Nunh-huh 21:32, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Category Talk:playwright seems to be the place. - Nunh-huh 21:46, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

I agree that the Category:Writers is probably too broad. But I wanted to put people there as a holder, in that they frequently wrote things other than, say, novels. I won't do any more in the future. john k 08:06, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Pferdest%E4rke
I have no objections. I gather you at least read some German. Burgundavia 09:19, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Grab anything you can that isn't in Horsepower. I neither speak German, nor know much about mechanics. Burgundavia 09:23, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

NPOV
To answer your question on Wikipedia talk:Categorization, NPOV -- Neutral point of view. HTH. 8-} --ssd 16:30, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Forest Temple
Sorry about losign Forest Temple from VfD. There was a corruption that duplicated the entire page. I am still trying to recover what may have been lost while there were two entries for reach nomination. - Tεx  τ  urε  18:31, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Tracking the vandal
I moved your 129.78.228.114 to the userpage by that name, as you mistakenly put it in the main article namespace. JFW | T@lk  09:52, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Don't worry. Since I've got Special:Recent changes on an RSS feed I notice everything much too quickly... JFW | T@lk  09:59, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Category:Literary theorists
Just wanted to give you a heads up that I cleared this category and I'm listing it on Categories for Deletion - we already have Category:Literary critics, and this seemed a redundant subcategory. Snowspinner 18:07, Jul 6, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry
I just saw you wanted me to stop copying and pasting things. I would like to say SORRY! That was very foolish of me. SORRY again! User:4.14.60.94 01:50, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)

Greetings
A page that you joined to help with associate with other members of the Wikipedia community is on VfD. Please see Votes for deletion/Wikipedian citizens of the world, and the related page Votes for deletion/Wikipedian supporters of the sovereign nation-state. Cognition 09:36, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

World Citizen userbox, User world
Hi, I noticed the message saying you're a World Citizen, I would like to invite you to add User world to your user page if you wish to proclaim it in a more effective way, and this template will also add you automatically to the Wikipedians with World Citizenship category. :) --Mistress Selina Kyle 23:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

not everything has to be cited
Hi. I'm not trying to be contentious, but claiming that all statements in WP need to be cited is simply not true, if you review official WP guidelines as in WP:CITE. Anyone can see that any article in which every single sentence or fragment thereof had a citation would be difficult to read, especially if most of the citations linked back to a single source, as they would on the ant page. To quote WP policy: "attribution is required for direct quotes and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged." Since no one is challenging or likely to challenge the statement that ants nest both in the ground and in trees, there is no requirement for a citation - it simplifies everything to NOT bother to cite it. If you wish to be the person responsible for looking up and adding the citations, that would be fine, but simply flagging the work of other editors as requiring citations when there is no dispute over the material is not nearly as helpful. Dyanega 18:50, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Organic compounds that are fertilizers vs 'organic' fertilizers
I see the point you're trying to make, that not all organic compounds are 'organic' fertilizers. The best example is that urea _is_ an organic compound, yet not approved by organic agriculture if it is made in a fertilizer plant instead of an animal's body. However, the intent of the sentence (I know because I wrote the original version of that sentence, before many edits) is to say that some fertilizers are organic compounds and some are inorganic compounds, not to say anything about fertilizers approved for use by organic farmers. (Some materials that are approved for use in organic farming are inorganic compounds, of course.) I am going to revert to organic/inorganic compounds but I wanted you to see why.PBarak 16:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Possible compromise statement for global warming
IMHO Wikipedia must not have a general statement without any qualifiers and state them as fact when there is reason to doubt them provided by reliable sources.

How about this possible statement:

As of 2002 the United States was the largest emitter of carbon dioxide emissions according to UN data. The Netherlands Environment Protection Agency has released preliminary data indicating that as of 2006 China was the number one carbon dioxide emitter. The UN has not released any new data since 2002 that either confirms or contradicts such findings. Custodiet ipsos custodes talk 20:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!
Bendzh -- thanks so much for the pointers on proper Wikipedia use. I will do my best to follow them and I hope I didn't go too far in my suggested modifications prior to discussing with the community. Cntreras 11:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)cntreras

Furry fandom
Please be careful not to revert back to a vandalized version. Thanks. Corvus cornix 21:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Ubuntu_Home_Server
Thanks. missed your message to me the first time around. yeah, really sorry about that, I'm not used to a wiki that *has* to be this structured, community-wise.

Glomaceae vs Glomeraceae
Hi - I see you changed the citation back to "Glomaceae (now Glomeraceae)" on the Glomeromycota. There never really was a Glomaceae as it was a error and is correctable. In dictionaries and encyclopedias I think it is important to use the correct name and only secondarily mention the error. When the authors reclassified the fungi they did so in the Glomeraceae regardless of the incorrect spelling. Phrasing it "now Glomeraceae" makes it sound like yet another classification. It's up to us to clearly say what the correct situation is so others can learn it. Heliocybe 14:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

re: preview button
Hi, sometimes I like to keep my edits modular, so that people can see very clearly what my edits meant. I hope you understand.. --Kjoonlee 15:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic groups
I did not do vandalism. I erased a vandal's post, I did the right thing. I am from Brazil and I have been myself to all those places, and the demographics information writeen by the vandal user is not true and, by the way, does not even have sources.

He seems to be trying to create a White majority in all those Northeastern's Brazil places. Please, read a History book and discover that nowhere in Northeeastern Brazil has a White majority. Opinoso 15:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

re: Edinburgh underground city
Respectfully, the article on underground city (the section on the United Kingdom) specifically refers to Edinburgh with regards to its "extensive Underground" and it specifically mentions "Edinburgh's 18th century South Bridge." I did not revert because I think that expanding the section on the Edinburgh Underground may be a better option, but since my expertise is only limited to a History Channel program "Cities of the Underground" I'm not too sure that my expansion would be too useful without more research. -- EmperorBMA|話す 17:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Yeah it looks like History Channel is giving the tourism boat a push too, considering all the travel-documentaries and such they've got on now. Anyways, thanks a bunch. -- EmperorBMA|話す 17:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Ref Desk Question
Sorry for the delay in replying, I meant organisms that had adapted to a cold (or sometimes cold) climate. I have now found a book about this kind of thing so will be reading up on it when I get some time. JMiall ₰  22:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Sustainable Living
I noticed you yanked my link to [No Impact Man's blog]. I realize blogs are generally frowned upon (to put it mildly), but I thought it worth ignoring that rule in the interests of improving content. Can I persuade you to take a look at the link and reconsider your deletion? I'm not going to restore it myself, but hope you'll see my (uh-oh...) point of view. Regards,
 * Septegram * Talk * Contributions * 18:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC) (who will watch for any response here)

Reincarnation
You seem to be involved in vandalism by deleting my submission on Death, Karma and Reincarnation. Without reading it or understanding its contents you are deleting it goes against the grain of wikipedia. So please refrain from doing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Finland
Hi! You reverted my edit and restored the info on the article that Finland is located in Scandinavian peninsula. Although there is some debate whether Finland is part of Scandinavia in cultural and historical context, there is no doubt that only small area of Finland (mostly Enontekiö) is located in Scandinavian peninsula in strictly geographical sense. I'll revert your revert. SGJ 14:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Chororapithecus abyssinicus on the Main Page
FYI. mav 03:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

We are relevant.
Is our small film production not relevant even though we are starting to make news?

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/sep/09/urban-explorers-provide-rare-comedy-footage/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rarefootage (talk • contribs) 04:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Merging WikiProjects
Hi, there is a proposal to merge inactive WikiProject (WikiProject Climate change and WikiProject Energy development) into WikiProject Environment. Please voice your opinions. OhanaUnitedTalk page 14:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Erection
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Availability for WikiProject_Anthropology/Collaboration_of_the_month
The probable sorry state of 'core anthropology' articles on Wikipedia has been recently identified here

As a self-nominated WikiProject_Anthropology member, I thought I'd check on your interest and willingness to see anthropology better represented on Wikipedia? Bruceanthro (talk) 14:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Exobasidiomycetes
I have nominated Exobasidiomycetes, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Exobasidiomycetes. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Billscottbob (talk) 22:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Eleutherodactylus
Hi, I saw you were reorganizing Eleutherodactylus, what is the status? Did you finish it? Did you include the Zootaxa reference? Is there something else that needs to be done? I'm asking because I am interested in translating it to Spanish. --Ljvillanueva (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:The Sheltering Sky.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:The Sheltering Sky.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Article upgrade assistance request (Pre-translation stage)
Seasons Greetings,

This is in reference to a relatively new umbrella article on en-wikipedia named Ceremonial pole. Ceremonial pole is a human tradition since ancient times; either existed in past at some point of time, or still exists in some cultures across global continents from north to south & from east to west. Ceremonial poles are used to symbolize a variety of concepts in several different world cultures.

Through article Ceremonial pole we intend to take encyclopedic note of cultural aspects and festive celebrations around Ceremonial pole as an umbrella article and want to have historical, mythological, anthropological aspects, reverence or worships wherever concerned as a small part.

While Ceremonial poles have a long past and strong presence but usually less discussed subject. Even before we seek translation of this article in global languages, we need to have more encyclopedic information/input about Ceremonial poles from all global cultures and languages. And we seek your assistance in the same.

Since other contributors to the article are insisting for reliable sources and Standard native english; If your contributions get deleted (for some reason like linguistics or may be your information is reliable but unfortunately dosent match expectations of other editors) , please do list the same on Talk:Ceremonial pole page so that other wikipedians may help improve by interlanguage collaborations, and/or some other language wikipedias may be interested in giving more importance to reliablity of information over other factors on their respective wikipedia.

This particular request is being made to you since your user name is listed in Translators available list.

Thanking you with warm regards Mahitgar (talk) 05:34, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Invite to the African Destubathon
Hi. You may be interested in participating in the African Destubathon which starts on October 15. Africa currently has over 37,000 stubs and badly needs a quality improvement editathon/contest to flesh out basic stubs. There are proposed substantial prizes to give to editors who do the most geography, wildlife and women articles, and planned smaller prizes for doing to most destubs for each of the 55 African countries, so should be enjoyable! Even if contests aren't your thing we would be grateful if you could consider destubbing a few African wildlife articles during the drive to help the cause and help reduce the massive 37,000 + stub count, of which many are rated high importance. If you're interested in competing or just loosely contributing any article related to a topic you often work on, please add your name to the Contestants/participants section. Might be a good way to work on fleshing out articles you've long been meaning to target and get rewarded for it! Diversity of work from a lot of people will make this that bit more special. Thanks. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 04:53, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

File:Booba-Kiki.png listed for discussion
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Can you help verify translations of articles from language-finnish
Hello Bendzh,

Would you be able to help evaluate the accuracy of translations of Wikipedia articles from language-finnish to English Wikipedia?

This would involve evaluating a translated article on the English Wikipedia by comparing it to the original language-finnish article, and marking it "Pass" or "Fail" based on whether the translation faithfully represents the original. Here's the reason for this request:

There are a number of articles on English Wikipedia that were created as machine translations from different languages including language-finnish, using the Content Translation tool, sometimes by users with no knowledge of the source language. The config problem that allowed this to happen has since been fixed, but this has left us with a backlog of articles whose accuracy of translation is suspect or unknown, including some articles translated from language-finnish. In many cases, other editors have come forward later to copyedit and fix any English grammar or style issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the translation is accurate, as factual errors from the original translation may remain. To put it another way: Good English is not the same as good translation.

If you can help out, that would be great. Here's a sample of the articles that need checking:
 * 1) Elastinen_feat.
 * 2) Luxembourg_Gardens,_Paris
 * 3) The_Bells_(Aalto)
 * 4) Kummakivi
 * 5) Betrothal_of_January

All you have to do, is compare the English article to the language-finnish article, and assess them "Pass" or "Fail" (the Pass and Fail templates may be useful here). (Naturally, if you feel like fixing an inaccurate translation and then assessing it, that's even better, but it isn't required.) Also please note that we are assessing accuracy not completeness, so if the English article is much shorter that is okay, as long as whatever has been translated so far is factually accurate. To see the full list of articles, please go to WP:CXT/PTR.

If you can help, please ping me here to let me know. You can add your pass/fails above, right next to each link, or you may indicate your results below. Thanks! Elinruby (talk) 03:55, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest
Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

title: User talk:Bendzh


text:
Mazzikin

In Jewish mythology, mazzikin (, borrowed as מַזִּיקִים) are invisible demons that can create minor annoyances or greater dangers. This Aramaic term, which is found in the Talmud, means "damagers" or "those who harm". It is generally understood to mean harmful invisible demons that a person could encounter in daily life. While Judaism today does not often directly discuss evil spirits, as late as the Geonic period, incantation bowls made by Aramaic-speaking inhabitants of Mesopotamia and the Levant (including both practicing Jews and rabbis) were a method of protecting individuals from a large array of demons and similar spirits, such as disease spirits, mazzikin, lilin, and shedim.

Description
The Talmud, a central text of Rabbinic Judaism, contains various descriptions of mazikin throughout its pages. While these descriptions may not present a uniform or consistent portrayal, they provide insights into the understanding and beliefs about mazzikin in Jewish tradition during the time of the Talmud's composition.

The Talmud describes mazzikin as having certain characteristics similar to both angels and humans (Hagigah 16a). According to the text, mazzikin have wings like angels, can traverse great distances quickly like angels, and possess knowledge of future events like angels. However, they also share traits with humans, such as eating, drinking, procreating, and dying. "The baraita specifies: In three ways they are like ministering angels: They have wings like ministering angels; and they fly from one end of the world to the other like ministering angels; and they know what will be in the future like ministering angels."

Mazikin are believed to be numerous and constantly present around humans. Abaye, a prominent Amoraic sage, states that demons are more numerous than humans and surround them like a ridge around a field. Rav Huna, another Amora, further explains that every person has thousands of demons on each side, one thousand to the left and ten thousand to the right (Berakhot 6a).

Certain Talmudic passages describe methods of detecting mazzikin, such as sifting fine ashes around one's bed to see their footprints, which resemble the feet of a rooster (Berakhot 6a). Another method involves using a black cat, specifically a firstborn black female cat, the daughter of a firstborn black female cat. By burning its hair and grinding the ashes, then placing the ashes in one's eyes, a person could supposedly see the mazzikin (Berakhot 6a). Other passages suggest that mazzikin can be found in specific locations, such as under gutters (Pesachim 112a) or in ruins (Berakhot 3a).

The Talmud also describes practices to protect oneself from mazzikin, such as reciting the Shema Yisrael before going to sleep (Berakhot 5a).

title: Mazzikin


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Chatfield Hollow State Park

Chatfield Hollow State Park is a public recreation area occupying 412 acre that lie adjacent to Cockaponset State Forest in the town of Killingworth, Connecticut. The state park offers hiking trails, a swimming beach, trout fishing, mountain biking, rock climbing, and picnicking areas. Park attractions include 6.67 acre Schreeder Pond, Indian caves, historic sites, a restored water wheel, and a reproduction covered bridge. The park is managed by the Connecticut Department of Energy and Environmental Protection.

History
Chatfield Hollow was designated as a state park in 1949. It was developed in the 1930s as a Civilian Conservation Corps recreation area within Cockaponset State Forest. The CCC created Schreeder Pond in 1934 by building a horseshoe-shaped earth and stone dam across Chatfield Hollow Brook. In 1937, Oak Lodge was raised on the west side of Schreeder Pond; the lodge was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1986. A "from the ground up" restoration of the lodge was completed in 2017. The region where the park now resides was an important area for indigenous peoples. From the Paleo-Indian time approximately 10,00 years B.C. until the Final Woodland years which end in 1633, the area that Chatfield Hollow State Park occupies was important for fishing, plant gathering, and hunting to the River Indians of New England.[6] The Hammonasset people are recorded as being the first known inhabitants of this area. There are large granite rock overhangs where artifact discovery shows inhabitance long before the first English colonists settled in Chatfield Hollow. These rock overhangs are today known as the Indian Caves and can be visited by hiking a marked trail in the park. The three Chatfield brothers for whom the park is named arrived from England around the year 1639. [7].

Geology
The park's bedrock ledges consist of a type of gneiss called Monson Gneiss, a medium- to coarse-grained rock, light in color, mainly composed of plagioclase, quartz and biotite; trace amounts of garnet, epidote, magnetite can be observed in places. The park sits in a glacial valley, with steep declines on either side and an abundance glacial erratics. The erratics are smooth with sharp edges removed; the majority are composed of Monson Gneiss. Examples of other rock types can be found in the park, since erratics can sometimes be moved great distances.

Activities and amenities
The 825 feet Paul F. Wildermann Boardwalk allows visitors to cross an inland swamp without disturbing it. In addition, some 20 mi of hiking trails, including the blue-blazed Chatfield Trail, originate within the park and extend into adjacent sections of forest.
 * Hiking

The park offers some of the most difficult technical cross-country mountain biking trails in the state. Among them are the Lookout Trail and the Pond Trail, which is a side trail that loops off the Deep Woods Trail.
 * Mountain biking

The park's ledges and cliffs include one of the most popular rock climbing routes in the state along the southern end of the Deep Woods Trail adjacent to Route 81.
 * Rock climbing

Chatfield Hollow State Park is one of Connecticut's eleven Trout Parks, with pond and stream stockings throughout the season and easy accessibility for young and novice anglers.
 * Trout fishing

The park offers swimming on Schreeder Pond and areas for picnicking.
 * Other

title: Chatfield Hollow State Park


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Leopold Auenbrugger

Josef Leopold Auenbrugger or Avenbrugger (19 November 1722 – 17 May 1809), also known as Leopold von Auenbrugger, was an Austrian physician who invented percussion as a diagnostic technique. On the strength of this discovery, he is considered one of the founders of modern medicine.

Biography
Auenbrugger was a native of Graz in Styria, an Austrian province. His father, owner of the inn Zum Schwarzen Mohren, gave his son every opportunity for an excellent preliminary education in his native town and then sent him to Vienna to complete his studies at the university. Auenbrugger was graduated as a physician at the age of 22 and then entered the Spanish Military Hospital of Vienna, where he spent 10 years.

He found out that, by applying his ear to the patient and tapping lightly on the chest, one could assess the density of underlying tissues and organs. This technique of percussive diagnosis had its origins in testing the level of wine casks in the cellar of his father's hotel. With this method, he was able to plot outlines of the heart. It was the first time that a physician could relatively accurately and objectively determine an important sign of diseases. He published his findings in a booklet, but nobody paid much attention to it.

During his ten years of patient study, Auenbrugger confirmed his observations on the diagnostic value of percussion by comparison with post-mortem specimens, and besides made a number of experimental researches on dead bodies. He injected fluid into the pleural cavity, and showed that it was perfectly possible by percussion to tell exactly the limits of the fluid present, and thus to decide when and where efforts should be made for its removal.

His name is also associated with Auenbrugger's sign, a bulging of the epigastric region, in cases of large effusions of the pericardium, the membrane which envelops the heart.

His later studies were devoted to tuberculosis. He pointed out how to detect cavities of the lungs, and how their location and size might be determined by percussion. He also recognized that information with regard to the contents of cavities in the lungs and conditions of lung tissue might be obtained by placing the hand on the chest and noting the vibration, or fremitus, produced by the voice and breath. These observations were published in a little book called Inventum Novum ex Percussione Thoracis Humani Interni Pectoris Morbos Detegendi, the full English title being "A New Discovery that Enables the Physician from the Percussion of the Human Thorax to Detect the Diseases Hidden Within the Chest". It is considered a book that marks an epoch in the modern history of medicine.

Like most medical discoveries, Auenbrugger's method of diagnosis at first met with indifference. Before his death, however, it had aroused the attention of French physician René Laennec, who, following up the ideas suggested by it, discovered auscultation. The value of percussion in physical examination was later recognized by Jean-Nicolas Corvisart, who popularized it teaching it to his students in France, and by Joseph Škoda in Vienna. He also translated and illustrated Auenbrugger's book in 1808, which helped to make Auenbrugger's work on percussion better known.

Auenbrugger lived to the age of 86. He was especially noted for his cordial relations with the younger members of his profession and for his kindness to the poor and to those suffering from tuberculosis. He is sometimes said to have died in the typhus epidemic of 1798, but he actually died over a decade later.

Auenbrugger's daughters, Marianna and Katerina, were composers and Marianna was a pupil of Antonio Salieri.

title: Leopold Auenbrugger


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Category:World War II films

These are films set in World War II, including those based on fact and fiction.

title: Category:World War II films


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Talk:List of English words of Hindi or Urdu origin

Urdu/Persion not Hindi !
There are many words that are used in Urdu, but due to their high standard and meaningful position, they are also used in Hindi (borrowed from Urdu). In this article some of the words (that were used in Urdu and were then added to Hindi) are of Persian origin not Urdu/Hindi. e.g.
 * Pyjama: It's Persian word (پاجامہ). In Persian, Paa (پا) (changed to Py for making adjective) means: Foot or for Foot and Jama (جامہ) means Clothes. In urdu/hindi, Paa is derived from Persian, the root word for Paa in urdu/hindi is Paaon (پاؤں) and for Jama is Kapra (کپڑا).
 * Sepoy: Sepoy is the changed form of Persian word Sepaahi (سپاھی). In Webster Online dictionary, the origin of word Sepoy is given as Portuguese sipai, from Hindi & Urdu sipāhī, from Persian.

typhoon
``Typhoon" is from Mandarin Chinese, - `dai' (=big )  +  `fu' (= wind) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.121.18.15 (talk) 14:28, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * That might be the origin of the Urdu word. The Wiktionary entry makes the point that the word likely traveled from east to west. Difficult to say though. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 19:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Sure its not from the Greek, like the wiktionary page on the word says?? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/typhoon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:765A:D700:4CAD:71C7:29C:29CB (talk) 15:58, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * IP, I am not sure what you are implying. However you prompted me to look a little more and I found the long dissertation by Yule from 1903 on the subject that seems to favor Arabic over Chinese, but Hindi and Urdu do not seem to be even considered. The citation given at Online Etymology Dictionary that cites Yule only mentions Hindi as having the same word at the time of entry to Portuguese (and then later to English) and the probable source was Arabic pilots. It seems that it is possible it is from Hindi, there just no proof. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 21:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Poetry
I am a poet. After going through the list of English words of Hindi/Urdu origin, I thought of bunching them in a free verse style to see the impact. So, here is my piece.

Urdu/Hindi now English

In an old bungalow near the cheetah jungle, dacoits in dungarees and jodhpurs, after the loot, sit on Multan charpoys in the verandah and enjoy garam masala curry with roti, chutney, aloo chat, and raita. Soon after the lassi punch, fit for Maharajas, they start bhangra on desi beats. An avatar comes as Typhoon, in a bandana, wearing red bangles. Folding her chhatri, she walks towards the blighty so-called bandit Mogul lying on his dewan-cot near the chow-kat. She says: Whatever kedgeree you cook, I hope it is not for me. Dekho Yar! Cushy, cushy, hand me my pukka share, or else my Khaki guru’s mantra will tighten your cummerbunds. You thugs! Listen to the gavial. Your pajamas are your pride. Phoolan Devi gets her booty wrapped in pashmina. Off she goes, with a tickety-boo smile. Is it kismet or karma? Blimey! The pundit in Dictionaries is confused.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Rubeena Anjum (talk • contribs)


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Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain

The Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain (RPSGB) existed from its founding as the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain in 1841 until 2010. The word "Royal" was added to its name in 1988. It was the statutory regulatory and professional body for pharmacists and pharmacy technicians in England, Scotland and Wales. In September 2010, the regulatory powers of the Society were transferred to the newly formed General Pharmaceutical Council (GPhC). The RPSGB became the Royal Pharmaceutical Society (RPS) at that time and retained its professional leadership role; the "Great Britain" part of the name was dropped for day-to-day purposes.

Statutory role
Before the establishment of the GPhC and the transfer of regulatory power, the primary objective of the RPSGB was to lead, regulate, develop and promote the pharmaceutical profession. All pharmacists in Great Britain had to be registered with the Society in order to practise, and the Society was unusual amongst healthcare regulators that it had its own inspectorate.

In latter years, in order to become a member of the Society an individual usually had to complete:
 * 1) a MPharm or (if graduating before 2000) a BPharm or BSc (pharmacy) degree,
 * 2) 52 weeks of pre-registration training and
 * 3) pass a registration examination.

This gave them the right to use the post-nominal letters MRPharmS (Member of the Royal Pharmaceutical Society) and to practise as pharmacist in Great Britain. Fellowships (FRPharmS) were also awarded for pharmacists with long standing and outstanding commitment to the profession.

Since 2010, the register of pharmacists is now held by the GPhC and it is this body which now controls registration and fitness to practise. The Royal Pharmaceutical Society now provides Members with the post-nominals 'MRPharmS', Associate members receive 'ARPharmS', pharmaceutical Scientist members awarded 'SRPharmS', and Fellows denoted by the 'FRPharmS' post-nominals.

History
The Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain was founded on 15 April 1841 by William Allen FRS, Jacob Bell, Daniel Hanbury, John Bell, Andrew Ure, James Marwood Hucklebridge, and other London chemists and druggists, at a meeting in the Crown and Anchor Tavern, Strand, London. William Allen was its first President, and the society quickly took premises at 17 Bloomsbury Square, London where a School of Pharmacy was established in which botany and materia medica were an important part of the students’ curriculum. In 1843, Queen Victoria granted the society its Royal Charter.

In 1879 Rose Coombes Minshull (1845–1905) and Isabella Skinner Clarke (1842–1926) became the first two women elected as full members of the society. In 1918 Margaret Elizabeth Buchanan became the first woman to be elected to the Council of the society, serving until 1926. Jean Irvine became the first female president of the society in 1947, which position she held until 1948.

In 1981, the RPSGB Diploma course in Veterinary pharmacy was initiated by professionals such as Michael Jepson and Steven Kayne, the former of whom led what was to become an institution until he retired in 2004. Sarah Cockbill then took the responsibility.

In 1988, Queen Elizabeth II agreed that the title "Royal" should be granted to the society.

The RPSGB operated a publishing company and the Royal Pharmaceutical Society Museum, both of which are now operated by the Royal Pharmaceutical Society.


text:
Category:Pokémon characters

This is a category for characters in the Pokémon franchise.

title: Category:Pokémon characters


text:
Talk:Covert operation

Pox Blankets
What documentation exists for the pox blankets claim?

The article has a clear anti-religious POV that builds to absurdity in the last paragraph. Were the Catholic church's activities against the Soviet bloc really covert ops? Was the church doing work for other states that was not a normal part of church business? Was the Inquisition all that covert? Please clarify. Gazpacho

I am not the original author, but I added an external link to a web page disucssing smallpox blankets and also an internal link to the article on Jeffery Amhurst, which also mentions the smallpox blankets.

I do not see any anti-religious POV in the article nor any mention of the Inquisition. I assume these issues have been corrected.

I think that this article needs fleshing out. I think there is probably much more to say on the subject. That is why I added the stub flag, even though it is longer than the typical stub. --Lenehey

Yes, I have removed the anti-religious sections. Gazpacho 00:43, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Agree with Lenehey that this needs fleshing out. Tried to do a bit today. See below sections. --Dredeyedick 23:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

External Links Section Added
Added section, and some links to related materials. --Dredeyedick 23:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

902 Military Intelligence Group infiltrates Quakers
Added this section with a short description, a representative quote, and links, as an example of an ongoing covert operation that has been covered by the media and in at least one public congressional hearing. Added links to pdf and html versions of 901 MI Group spreadsheet of protests. At first tried to include footnote ref tags, but I could not get them to work properly. The existing footnote ref doesn't seem to be done in the recommended way, and I figured the time I had available to work would be better spent adding new content. I'm still new and studying footnotes, wikitags and stuff. Even so, tried to clean up and make a bit more regular to bulleted list of examples of covert actions, without changing each to full blown sections (which they should probably / might eventually be). --Dredeyedick 23:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

See Also items added
Added a few related items to 'See Also' section. (Some don't yet have articles, but are related topics, imo).--Dredeyedick 23:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Forced TOC for this page
Added magic "forcetoc" tag to generate TOC for this talk page. --Dredeyedick 23:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Merging with Black Ops?
On the question of whether this entry for covert opertations should be merged with Black ops- shouldn't it be the other way around? As I understand it, Black Ops is more of an intelligence community jargon for covert ops, so wouldn't it make more sense to subsume black ops into covert ops? The decoy 15:45, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

No, black ops and covert ops are not synonymous. Covert ops are those planned as to permit plausible denial by the sponsor. The person involved could be in plain sight. The term "black operation" is a broader term described in the Wikipedia article on Special Access Programs (SAP) and elsewhere. A SAP doesn't have to be covert. It is a program in which because of its sensitive nature the normal security measure offered to Top Secret and Sensitive Compartmented Information (TS/SCI) are insufficient and must supplemented by significantly expanded efforts to protect the integrity of the program. Also of note, the term "clandestine operation" should not be confused either--it is an operation so planned and executed as to insure concealment of the operation itself--no one even sees it (i.e. the clandestine insertion of special operations forces via HALO jumps or SEAL Delivery Vehicle). Anonymous1111 19:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

SCI and SAP are separate tracks. The former is under the intelligence community, and, before the DNI was created, were governed by DCI Directives. SAP are Defense Department programs that in principle are NOT under the intelligence community, although there is room for slop when it comes to tactical intelligence programs. In the leaked and generally available Official Use Only supplement to the National Industrial Security Program Operations Manual, three SAP classes are identified: Acknowledged, which may have general references and even budget figures in a Congressional document, Unacknowledged, which do not appear in appropriations documents but are still briefed to cognizant committees in executive session, and Waived, which are briefed only to eight members of Congress. There is a parallel category of exceptionally sensitive intelligence operations that are also briefed only to eight members of Congress (Senate Majority and Minority Leaders, Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, and chair and ranking minority members of the relevant oversight committees). Hcberkowitz 03:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Title rethink
The topic of Covert Ops in an increddibly broad one; it includes everything from the most mundaine contact handeling in Afganistan (which is by no means illegal) to some outrageous Bond film. In fact, most Covert Ops are well within the confinds of (inter)national laws and are part of everyday militairy and civil normal framework operations. The Covert Ops described in this article are notable exeptions to the rule and due to their nature capture our imagination and form unrealistic views on the subject. Therefor I suggest the article be renamed something along the lines of: "Popular views of Covert Operations" or "Covert Operations in contemporary media". --Brisbane2000 21:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Clandestine Vs Covert
I think there is a distinction between Clandestine and Covert operations. Clandestine is roughly equivalent to 'hidden' whereas Covert is more like 'disguised'. Is this about right? 12.10.127.58 05:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

 * As I learned it in intelligence classes, that is a pretty fair distinction, not always followed. For example, the CIA Directorate of Operations, which includes paramilitary operations, is now the National Clandestine Service. It's pretty clear that if someone is shooting at you, the fact of that usually can't be concealed. The weapons and the identity of the shooters may well be hidden, making the attack a covert but not clandestine operation.

 * Another distinction is propaganda, which obviously can't be hidden if it is to be absorbed. White propaganda clearly identifies its source. Black propaganda tries to appear as if it is coming from a different source, or a fake one such as a simulated group inside a larger one, the small group objecting to the national policy (e.g., Soldatensender West in WWII). Gray propaganda has many shades, but it may have no obvious identified source, or a source may be suggested but not be explicit.

 * Clandestine operations tend to focus on espionage, disinformation, and sabotage (before it goes boom). Covert operations include military direct action and propaganda. Somewhere inbetween may be economic warfare, secret coordination with friendly or enemy intelligence organizations, and electronic/computer warfare.

Hcberkowitz 14:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

 * The distiction that is used between the words "Covert" and "Clandestine" in a military operations, is based on the intended outcome of its exposeure.

Covert Operations: Activity is undetected with the desired outcome detected. e.g., small unit inserted to destroy a target. Clandestine Operations: Activity is undetected and outcome is undetected. e.g., small unit inserted to abtain copies of plans. No one knows they were even there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gcookz (talk • contribs) 22:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I do NOT think that is it particularly useful to merge the article Covert operations with Clandestine operations because there is a well-recognized dichotomy between covert and clandestine operations.

Covert operations ("covops") are those operations which are organized and executed under strict operational security, so that the public and target have little or preferably no notice in advance of the operation or while it is ongoing; however, the outcome of the operation is such that it is likely to be publicly known after execution. Operation Eagle Claw, Operation Urgent Fury and the apprehension of Osama bin Laden are all examples of covert military operations.

Clandestine operations are those operations which are organized and executed under strict operational security as above, but which by their character should ideally never become publicly known and are almost never publicized after their execution - mainly because they use sources and tradecraft which are only useful if held secret. All espionage and other intelligence gathering - particularly human source intelligence gathering (HUMINT), overhead imagery, and signals collection (SIGINT) is clandestine by necessity. Once a intelligence gathering activity becomes known to the public or its target, it can be defended against by counterintelligence activity, camouflage, communications security measures, and other ways. The activities of CIA mole Aldrich Ames, FBI mole Robert Hanssen, GRU officer Pyotr Semyonovich Popov, the Cambridge Five in Britain, interception and decrypting of sensitive electronic communications (such as the WikiLeaks cables disclosure of several hundred thousand sensitive documents from a secure US diplomatic cable database by a US Army private) and the use of overhead satellite and aerial photography are all examples of successful and highly consequential clandestine activities.

Covert operations, on the other hand, are not limited in this way. Not infrequently, covert operations can be mounted in support of clandestine operations. Generally covert operations are intense activity performed in a purposefully brief time span.

Let's say a human intelligence source (a "spy" or "agent") or intelligence case officer has been burned - his or her identity made known to the target country and has either been apprehended or is likely soon to be apprehended. This is an example of a clandestine operation which has ended because the intelligence source can't provide more intelligence and is in danger of being killed or imprisoned, often with interrogation that would reveal the identity of the case officer and his or her nation if successful. Extraction of the human intelligence source and his or her family before their apprehension and processing by the target country's security forces would be an example of a covert operation, with only the most sensitive aspects of the extraction (escape routes and the existence and identity of persons or groups in the target country who assisted the operation, or the nature and type of special ops equipment used) withheld from publicity afterward.

"Henry S.A. Becket," a former US intelligence officer writing under a pseudonym, defines this crucial dichotomy in his "The Dictionary of Espionage: Spookspeak into English." (ISBN-13: 978-0812830682) loupgarous (talk) 02:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Work needed
whoever thro us under the bus needs smacked in the mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did a quick copyedit b/c the article is fairly weak in substance. Also, because the subject is "covert operation" (singular), the introduction had to reflect this. I think the topic is better served in the plural "Covert operations" because it covers a broader range of issues surrounding the term. The singular form is too narrowly specific. I would like to see content moved to Covert operations and Covert operation become the redirect, but I don't know if that can be done without losing the edit history and discussion. Alcarillo 21:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

NNPOV of categories??
While I appreciate that all covert operations are not espionage, as the article previously was categorized, I also would be hesitant to categorize all covert operations as state terrorism, as in the edit today of the category. Espionage, in trade terms, is more clandestine than covert. Howard C. Berkowitz 20:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Taking blame
I am taking blame for my action in putting a ahem ... unconventional tag citation requested because I am not confident enough to challenge the material. However, I think that it might be challenged in the future. Thus, I request we go ahead and add citation for the statement if possible. Different opinions are always wel-come. Regards, Kushal --Click me! write to me 17:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC) Click me! write to me

 * Not a bad question, really. I'd have to defer to a Briton to know what they use for a dictionary of military terms. What I can provide is the US definition by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Joint Publication PUB1-02, Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms:

 * covert operation — An operation that is so planned and executed as to conceal the identity of or permit plausible denial by the sponsor. A covert operation differs from a clandestine operation in that emphasis is placed on concealment of the identity of the sponsor rather than on concealment of the operation. See also clandestine operation; overt operation. (JP 3-60)

 * contrast with

 * clandestine operation — An operation sponsored or conducted by governmental departments or agencies in such a way as to assure secrecy or concealment. A clandestine operation differs from a covert operation in that emphasis is placed on concealment of the operation rather than on concealment of the identity of the sponsor. In special operations, an activity may be both covert and clandestine and may focus equally on operational considerations and intelligence-related activities. See also covert operation; overt operation. (JP 3-05.1)

 * I would be very surprised if these aren't the NATO definitions as well, but have no source on thatHoward C. Berkowitz 18:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Inaccurate/obsolete legal information
The article currently says:

The CIA was also designated as the sole authority under the 1991 Intelligence Authorization Act and in Title 50 of the United States Code Section 413(e).

However, there is no 50 USC 413(e) or 413e, and nothing in any part of section 413 relates to the CIA being a sole authority for covert action. On the contrary, the section says that the President may empower any government office to undertake covert action, on a case-by-case basis. The wording also implies that the CIA holds this condition by default, exclusively, but it doesn't actually say that. --216.145.71.126 (talk) 22:41, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

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Removal of "unsourced" material on operators
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text:
Ali Bongo (magician)

William Oliver Wallace (8 December 1929 – 8 March 2009), known by his stage name Ali Bongo, was an English comedy magician and former president of The Magic Circle, who performed an act in which he was known as the "Shriek of Araby".

Early life
Bongo was born as William Oliver Wallace in Bangalore, British India, where his father (also called William) was serving as a sergeant major with the 1st Battalion of the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment. Young William spent his early years on a British station in Trimulgherry, Secunderabad, before going to Britain with his mother Lillian at the age of seven.

After William Wallace senior had ended his army service, the family moved to Sutton Valence in Kent and young William won a scholarship to Sutton Valence School, leaving at the age of 16 to begin his career as an entertainer. His time in National Service was spent with the Royal Army Pay Corps. He worked for Harry Stanley's Unique Magic Studio and was manager of the magic department at Hamleys toy shop in London's Regent Street.

Career
Wallace created his 'Shriek of Araby' character with an oriental costume (robes, golden curly-toed slippers, horn-rimmed spectacles and headgear that incorporated both fez and turban) and took the name Ali Bongo from a character he had created for a youth club pantomime that he had co-written and appeared in while in his teens. The original character had sung a song which began: "My name is Ali Bongo and I come from Pongo, pong-tiddley-pongo land." Among his later magic catchphrases were "Uju Buju Suck Another Juju", "Aldy Bority Phostico Formio", and "Hocus Pocus Fishbones Chokus".

He made his British TV debut on The Good Old Days in 1965 on a bill topped by Tommy Trinder. Ali Bongo wrote many books on magic, many containing tricks of his own. He also illustrated them in his instantly recognisable style. He acted as magic consultant for many plays, opera, ballets and TV shows including David Nixon's Magic Box and The David Nixon Magic Show for Thames Television and The Paul Daniels Magic Show for the BBC.

Ali Bongo was the presenter of Ali Bongo's Cartoon Carnival, which featured himself and his assistant Oscar. It aired on UK TV BBC1 on Saturdays between 23 October and 18 December 1971, a total of nine episodes.

Bongo was featured in an episode of children's TV show Rainbow, appeared in the science fiction show The Tomorrow People in the serial "Revenge of Jedikiah", and had a slot in Zokko!. He also acted as the magical advisor on the TV show Doctor Who and the 1970s cult series Ace of Wands. In 1988 he made a brief appearance in the LWT newspaper-based comedy show Hot Metal. His well-known ability for devising tricks and illusions and solving magical problems inspired the TV writer David Renwick to create a character who was a magician's assistant and amateur sleuth in the series Jonathan Creek. Bongo was magical adviser to the series.

Bongo joined The Magic Circle in 1960, and two years later was made a Member of The Inner Magic Circle. He won The Magic Circle Magician of the Year in 1972, the Carlton Comedy Award in 1983, and the David Berglas Award in 1991. He served twice as vice-president of The Magic Circle before being elected president on 8 September 2008.

Death
At the beginning of February 2009, Bongo collapsed while giving a lecture in Paris. He was taken to hospital and, whilst there, suffered a stroke. He was subsequently returned to the United Kingdom and cared for in St Thomas's Hospital, London, where he later died from complications arising from pneumonia on 8 March. Ali Bongo's cremation and broken wand ceremony took place on 27 March 2009 at Randalls Park Crematorium, Leatherhead.

title: Ali Bongo (magician)


text:
Kealiʻi Reichel

Carleton Lewis Kealiinaniaimokuokalani Reichel (born June 26, 1962) popularly known as Kealii Reichel, is a popular and bestselling singer, songwriter, choreographer, dancer, chanter, scholar, teacher, and personality from Hawaii. He has spent his life educating the world about Hawaiian culture through music and dance.

Kealii (pronounced Keh-ah-LEE-ee) Reichel was born and raised on the island of Maui. Reichel grew up in the town of Lahaina where he attended Lahainaluna High School, however he spent weekends and summers with his maternal grandmother in the plantation town of Pāia. At the age of 24, Reichel was convicted of theft, and was sentenced to community service, which involved a study of Hawaiian culture. This marked a turning point in his life, as he decided to devote the rest of his life to the study and promotion of Hawaiian culture.

Reichel was one of the founding directors for Punana Leo O Maui, a Hawaiian language immersion pre-school. He has taught Hawaiian culture and language at the University of Hawaii's, Maui Community College, and he was the Cultural Resource Specialist and curator at the Bailey House Museum in Wailuku.

Hawaiian mele (music)
Reichel studied Hawaiian dance and vocals under Kumu [hula] (dance instructor/choreographer/master) Pekelo Day and Pualani Kanakaole Kanahele, daughter of the kumu hula and Hawaiian scholar "Aunty" Edith Kanakaʻole. He later founded his own hālau hula (Hawaiian dance school) Halau hula o ka Makani Wili Makaha o Kauaula now called Halau Kealaokamaile. He founded this hālau at the age of 18 after graduating from Lahainaluna High School

In 1994, at the age of 32, he recorded and released a collection of Hawaiian traditional and contemporary music entitled Kawaipunahele on his own Punahele Productions record label, and began his career as a Hawaiian music superstar. Reichel's subsequent albums, Lei Halia (1995), E O Mai (1997), and Melelana (1999), placed him securely at the top of the Hawaiian music entertainment industry. He is also featured in two anthology albums released by his record label, Pride of Punahele (1998) and Pride of Punahele 2 (2003).

In 2004, his album of the previous year, Ke'alaokamaile (2003), won four of the top awards at the 27th Annual [Na Hoku Hanohano Awards] (Hawaii's regional equivalent of the Grammy Awards) including Male Vocalist of the Year, Album of the Year, Hawaiian Album of the Year and Song of the Year.

Reichel also won big at the 38th annual Na Hoku Hanohano Awards in 2015, with his album of the previous year, Kawaiokalena. He won five of the top awards: Male Vocalist of the Year, Album of the Year, Hawaiian Album of the Year and Entertainer of the Year and Hawaiian Language Songwriting and Performance. This release was also nominated for a Grammy the same year.

Reichel's style most often includes vocals over a guitar, bass, and ukulele ensemble but may also include a Western (European-American) string quartet violin, viola and cello or traditional pre-1778 Hawaiian instruments. His vocals include Hawaiian language chanting and singing in both Hawaiian and English. Stage performances include dance in both traditional and modern hula forms. He also plays the guitar.

Theater
Kealii performed in the Maui Youth Theater production of Jesus Christ Superstar as Judas Iscariot and in the Maui Academy of Performing Arts production of Jesus Christ Superstar as Jesus.

International recognition
Reichel currently has contracts with JVC Victor Entertainment and Atlantic/Time-Warner. Kealii Reichel's consistent placement in Billboard Magazine's World Music Charts has garnered him international attention. He has opened concerts for Bonnie Raitt, LeAnn Rimes, Céline Dion, and Sting. In addition to his regular concerts in Hawaii, he has toured the United States mainland playing in such places as New York at Carnegie Hall and Town Hall, San Diego, San Francisco, Anaheim, Hollywood Bowl, Phoenix, Portland, Seattle and toured internationally with concerts and workshops in the South Pacific, Europe and Asia where he performs to sold out audiences.

Reichel is known not only for his artistry as a performer, songwriter and recording artist, but also for his work as an ambassador of Hawaiian culture to the rest of the world.

Personal Life
Reichel is married to Krauss.

Nā Hōkū Hanohano Awards
Favorite Entertainer of the Year Male Vocalist of the Year Most Promising Artist of the Year Album of the Year Anthology Album of the Year Song of the Year Hawaiian Album of the Year Haku Mele (new Hawaiian language composition; award to the composer ) Liner Notes Award Music Video DVD of the Year
 * 1995, 1996, 2000, 2007, 2015
 * 1995, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2015
 * 1995
 * 1995 Kawaipunahele, 2000 Melelana, 2004 Keʻalaokamaile, 2014 Kawaiokalena
 * 2006 Kamahiwa: The Kealiʻi Reichel Collection Vol. 1
 * 2004 Ka Nohona Pili Kai
 * 1995 Kawaipunahele, 1996 Lei Haliʻa, 2000 Melelana, 2004 Keʻalaokamaile, 2014 Kawaiokalena
 * Kuu Pua Maeole (to Keali'i Reichel) 1996, Nematoda (to Puakea Nogelmeier) 1998
 * 2000, 2004, 2006, 2009
 * 2008 Kukahi – Live in Concert

Discography

 * Kawaipunahele (1994), Punahele Productions
 * Lei Hali'a (1995), Punahele Productions
 * E O Mai (1997), Punahele Productions
 * Melelana (1999), Punahele Productions
 * Ke'alaokamaile (2003), Punahele Productions
 * Sweet Island (2005), Punahele Productions
 * Maluhia (2006), Punahele Productions
 * Kawaiokalena (2014), Punahele Productions

title: Kealiʻi Reichel


text: User talk:80.58.48.172

title: User talk:80.58.48.172


text:
User:Loikb

oh whatever.

title: User:Loikb


text:
Deputy lieutenant

In the United Kingdom, a deputy lieutenant is a Crown appointment and one of several deputies to the lord-lieutenant of a lieutenancy area – an English ceremonial county, Welsh preserved county, Scottish lieutenancy area, or Northern Irish county borough or county. Prior to the creation of the Irish Free State, all Irish counties had deputy lieutenants.

In formal style, the postnominal letters DL may be added after a deputy lieutenant's surname and other postnominals – e.g. John Brown, CBE, DL.

Overview
Deputy lieutenants are nominated by a lord-lieutenant, to assist with any duties as may be required (see the Lieutenancies Act 1997). Deputy lieutenants receive their commission of appointment via the appropriate government minister by command of the British monarch. In England and Wales, since November 2001, the minister responsible for most appointments is the Lord Chancellor, with exceptions such as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. In Scotland, since July 1999, it has been the Scottish Ministers.

Decades ago, the number of deputy lieutenants for each county could be as few as three. Today, however, there may be well over a dozen that are appointed, as the number of deputy lieutenants today correlates with the population of each respective county. Deputy lieutenants tend to be people who either have served the local community, or have a history of public service in other fields.

Deputy lieutenants represent the lord-lieutenant in his or her absence, including at local ceremonies and official events, from opening exhibitions to inductions of vicars (as requested by the Church of England). They must live within their lieutenancy area, or within seven miles (11 km) of its boundary. Their appointments do not terminate with any change of lord-lieutenant, but they are legally required to retire at age 75.

One of the serving deputy lieutenants is appointed to be vice lord-lieutenant, who in most circumstances will stand in for a lord-lieutenant who cannot be present. The appointment as vice lord-lieutenant usually expires upon the retirement of the lord-lieutenant who made the choice. Generally, the vice lord-lieutenant would then revert to being a regular deputy lieutenant.

Unlike the office of lord-lieutenant, which is an appointment in the gift of the Sovereign, the position of deputy lieutenant is an appointment of the Sovereign's appointee, and therefore not a direct appointment of the Sovereign per se.

Deputy lieutenant commissions are published by the clerk of the lieutenancy, as a State Appointment, in either the London Gazette or the Edinburgh Gazette, as appropriate, with the names of the persons appointed deputy lieutenants for that county or area, and the dates of their commissions.

title: Deputy lieutenant


text:
Talk:Taxonomy (biology)

Article quality
This article has recently passed a GA review with very few questions asked. I've had a look through it and have removed some extremely flaky sources - we obviously can't use Rhymezone (a list of Wikipedia articles that mention a topic, apparently) as a reliable source, and we shouldn't be relying on discussion forums either on a serious topic. I'm not sure why we're citing EB, certainly no better than Wikipedia, instead of going to reliable review papers of which there are many in taxonomy. I've marked up some of the most glaring cases and added some citation needed tags; no doubt more could be done in that direction.

On the more technical question of whether the use of primary sources is appropriate I will not venture an opinion: if we are simply stating that Woese introduced a new idea in 1990 or whatever, that is essentially fine; further, if we use the summary sections of such papers for basic background information, that's fine too. What would not be ok would be to use Wikipedia's voice to say Woese was correct and to cite that to his paper. I have not noticed any such usage here but a far more careful look would be required to answer that question. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:43, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

 * This article also cites phys.org and Encyclopedia Brittanica in several places, so it would be worthwhile to find more reliable sources. Jarble (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Indeed. Go right ahead. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * When? 2600:8805:4A11:2400:18C:5D1E:B451:5491 (talk) 12:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Merger Systematics into Taxonomy (biology)
I propose merging Systematics into Taxonomy (biology). I think the content in Systematics can easily be explained in the context of Taxonomy (biology), and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems. --Heanor (talk) 20:22, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

 * The merging of the articles "Systematics" and "Taxonomy (biology)" was proposed many times in the last 10 years; you can see the (very long) archive of this talk page and the (very long) talk page of "Systematics". 79.32.196.252  00:22, 11 January 2022 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.32.196.252 (talk)

 * Sorry, but I can not find any of the proposals of the merging of the articles "Systematics" and "Taxonomy (biology)". --Heanor (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * the very long discussions were concerned with the meaning of terms, and hence whether they were different. There's a great deal to read, but the discussion does demonstrate that the boundaries are difficult to draw: if you merge the articles on systematics and taxonomy, which I agree can be done, then why is classification a separate article? How can you have taxonomy and classification without nomenclature? See also my response to Faendalimas below. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * As far as I can see classification is not a separate article, it is merged here be Talk:Taxonomy (biology)/Archive 1. --Heanor (talk) 08:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * I am not sure what has been said in the past, I may even have commented on past proposals I do not recall. However I would argue against this proposal as Systematics is a method and tool of taxonomy, one of many, but the reverse is not true. Cheers Scott Thomson  ( Faendalimas ) talk 05:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * a major difficulty in all attempts to explain 'higher level' biological terminology is that there are two kinds of source, often in conflict: a smaller number of expositions by theoretically minded biologists, and a much larger number of examples of actual use by non-theoreticians, who generally ignore the theoreticians. The first is easy to include as a reference in an article, the second is not. The review in a blog by Wilkins archived here makes it clear that, at least in 2011, there was no consensus as to the relationship between the two. As far as I can see, there still isn't. There are sources (such as The Kew Plant Glossary) that agree with you in making systematics a more specific term than taxonomy; there are sources (reviewed by Wilkins) that make taxonomy and systematics the same; there are sources (favoured by Wilkins) that make systematics include taxonomy. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * The existence of two articles make it even more confusing. --Heanor (talk) 08:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure that it makes it even more confusing, given that there's considerable confusion in sources. A major issue would be whether one article would enable WP:NPOV to be upheld, since there has to be due treatment of all positions on the relationship between the relevant concepts. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:28, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * maybe a section relationship between Systematics and Taxonomy, or something like this will make it clearer? There we can write that there are sources that make taxonomy include systematics, there are sources that make taxonomy and systematics the same and there are sources that make systematics include taxonomy. --Heanor (talk) 09:36, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * but the problem remains that there are multiple definitions of the terms that are inconsistent, which I think is easier to discuss in separate articles. A combined article would need (1) a section on the alternative definitions of systematics (2) a section on the alternative definitions of taxonomy (3) a section on the relationships between the definitions, but I suspect this would already be covered by (1) and (2). I can't honestly see that a single article on any pair of concepts A and B that has to say that each has different definitions and that in some A includes B, in others A equals B, and in yet others B includes A, is any less confusing that the present arrangement. These just are confusing/confused/disputed concepts. But if you are really keen, you could develop a single article in draft space and ask for comments on using it to replace the existing two. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:11, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * basically Taxonomy (biology) the section itself already answers many questions that there are multiple definitions of the terms that are inconsistent. I can be extended, and we will not need 2 sections as you proposed. The alternative definitions of systematics is already in Taxonomy (biology). As well as the alternative definitions of taxonomy. --Heanor (talk) 10:26, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * a single article at "Taxonomy" with "Systematics" redirecting to it does not seem to me to present a neutral point of view. Sure, "Taxonomy" needs to say that some sources treat it as synonymous with "Systematics", and vice versa, but two articles can properly present the views of the sources that consider them different. Anyway, I think I've made my point. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * , ok, if you want the article "Systematics" to stay, I will close this proposal as "no consencus". But the article Systematics is very weak and almost empty. I moved few sentences which can enrich this article here, while leaving them also in Systematics page. The only argument to keep it is preserving NPOV, but I do not feel that that it the write way to treat WP:NPOVVIEW rule. creating an article about a subject that is already treated in an article is not permitted --Heanor (talk) 14:53, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * but that's the heart of the issue: are there two subjects or one? But I entirely agree that both articles need work, and have done for years. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:08, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * these are two related subjects which both are already treated good enough in this article. --Heanor (talk) 16:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

before closing, I did as I wrote what I said earlier have a small after thought, but it would require some substantive changes to the taxonomy page. You could merge them and have Systematics as a sub heading under taxonomy and bring it and others in as various methods utilized in the science of taxonomy. I think this would make for a better discussion on the topic as all the various controversies could be discussed in one place. However this would be a significant amount of work. Perhaps a team of editors could dedicate some time to do this properly, those familiar with the topics and the literature on the issues. Cheers Scott Thomson  ( Faendalimas ) talk 17:43, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * Yes it should be merged . ScholarAjayYadav (talk) 03:34, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

 * Removed merge notice after six months of inactivity. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:24, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2023
Please update outdated paragraph on PhyloCode in Modern system of classification section (originally written on March 31, 2015) to match more up-to-date information on the implementation of PhyloCode available in the History section of the PhyloCode Wikipedia page.

Edit: I did some digging, and the information in the PhyloCode article is also out of date. I was also unaware that verbatim specifications of the edits needed were necessary; it was my first time making an edit request, and I was unaware of the exact requirements. I'll update the PhyloCode page and return with a properly formatted request. DidSomebodySayChaos (talk) 08:07, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've marked the request as answered for now – when you're ready, just replace  with   in the template to reactivate the request. Tollens (talk) 09:36, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This section was indeed seriously out of date. I updated it, with reliable recent references. Some of the text gave an overly optimistic view of the satisfaction that the rank-based codes provide, even among the proponents of this system, as shown by the Linz Zoocode project, which is supported by several systematists (though a tiny proportion of the practitioners of rank-based nomenclature). But most systematists are part of a "silent majority" that did not express itself. So, I reformulated this slightly. Michel Laurin (talk) 10:19, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just a comment on the phylocode vs Lineaen Taxonomy issue. At present those that use Phylocode are restricted by several issues. First is that they do not have any support among the primary users of taxonomy, for example IUCN, CITES and most importantly the IUBS. The reason the Lineaen System has been adopted for so long is that over the last half century or so it was promoted by the IUBS which all users and end users of taxonomy tend to follow. The IUBS will not recognise PhyloCode at present. Further to this end users such as CITES have a lot of influence in this as it is very difficult to change systems with them. Under their international treaty the changing of the nomenclatural system will require all signatory nations to agree to this. Which may or may not happen. In any case this is largely why its mostly paleontologists using phylocode as there is no endangered species issues for them. The Lineaen system has its issues for sure but it can be made to work with PhyloCode much easier than PhyloCode can be made to work with endangered species legislation. PhyloCode is too unstable for species nomenclature that must pass through government who generally take at least 2 years to change registered species acts. We recently did a survey of the worlds taxonomists, about to be published in PNAS, that showed minimal support for PhyloCode among general users of taxonomy. Cheers Scott Thomson  ( Faendalimas ) talk 11:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but some of what you write is factually wrong (not speaking about opinions, which are irrefutable). IUBS does recognise the PhyloCode because the ISPN, which develops it, is a scientific member of the ISPN! It was admitted in IUBS in 2008, although the ISPN should have communicated on this, to prevent such misconceptions. Michel Laurin (talk) 11:38, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I forgot to mention: the PhyloCode does not regulate species names, mostly because many species concepts do not imply monophyly, and many established species are not clades, so your comment about this topic shows that you did not take time to read on the basic info on the PhyloCode. This code is not "unstable" (not sure what you mean by this), although when it existed as a preliminary draft, it changed more frequently than the rank-based codes; but these were versions of the code that were not enforced. And the slow change in the rank-based codes exasperates some users (some of whom I know personaly). However, future will tell which approach is right for clades. Cheers. Michel Laurin (talk) 11:42, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * well as a secretary of a working group for the IUBS that deals with taxonomy, and a professional taxonomist, also a member of Linz Code, and part of a group that monitors and develops International CheckList metrics I would say I hear different, directly from the people concerned. Cheers Scott Thomson  ( Faendalimas ) talk 11:48, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Taxonomy (biology)


text:
Category talk:Composers

Confusing

 * This is the most confusing category ever. Why are there lists with duplicate categories?  I'm also trying to include "composers by nationality" to this category and its not working, please help.  This is probably the worst category I've had to navigate yet. Cricket02 04:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

What's with the alphabetization on this page?

 * Half the composers are listed by FIRST name!!! Is there a global way to fix this? LorenzoPerosi1898 06:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

How about we have the Composers category consist only of subcategories

 * e.g. Category:Composers by nationality, Category:Composers by era, etc.? --Mr. L e fty Talk to me! 18:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

should categories be plural or singular?

 * - Nunh-huh 23:33, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Categorization: "Category names for lists of items should be plural." Hyacinth 19:03, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why is the composer category divided by gender?
It could be argued that composers should all be in one category, composers, regardless of gender. Given that the majority of Wikipedia articles on composers are about men, the category Male composers becomes like a main composer category. Compare this with the recent controversy over women American novelists being recategorized as Women American novelists (although that case was different in that men were kept in the American novelist category). What if we decided to categorize composers by sexual iorientation? We would have a category of Heterosexual composers (with a huge number of composers) and a category called LGBQ composers, with just a handful of articles. OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 12:14, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Composers