text:
Talk:Winston Churchill (1940–2010)

Article name
Is there any reason that this page is at Winston Spencer Churchill and not Winston Spencer-Churchill, or can it be moved? Proteus (Talk) 22:42, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Is the correct version "Spencer-Churchill"? I thought there was no hyphen. However equally I can't recall this Churchill being called WSC - that name is more commonly associated with his grandfather's books which included Spencer (to distinguish from "Winston Churchill the American"). Dare we go for "Winston Churchill (grandson)? Timrollpickering 08:20, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, we do have Charles de Gaulle (grandson). so.... Morwen 08:22, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * This one's "Winston Churchill", not "Spencer-Churchill", as per Burke's (sub Marlborough). "Spencer" might in his case be a middle name rather than part of a surname. So "Winston Spencer Churchill" (no hyphen) might be correct, but we know "Winston Churchill" is right. - Nunh-huh 08:34, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * A bunch of them here, where it appears that Winston Sr. is known simply as "C", but his less distinguished relatives are "S-C" Mmartins 10:51, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I think the name is formally "Spencer Churchill" or "Spencer Churchill" (the hyphen has a habit of appearing and disappearing) since the early 19th century. However Lord Randolph Churchill believed a double barrelled name would be a disadvantage (this wasn't the only thing he was wrong about!!!) and so he and his descendants in politics used "Churchill". I don't know if he formally changed the name, though it wouldn't affect other branches of the family. Winston the War PM added "Spencer" only on his books to disambiguate them from the American author, and I've seen books by both the later Randolph and the later Winston using both versions. However when the grandson was in Parliament he was always called "Winston Churchill". So I say copy de Gaulle and go for the grandson option. Timrollpickering 08:21, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I believe this article should be moved to Winston Churchill (1940–2010), with Winston Churchill (born 1940) made into a redirect. Jim Michael (talk) 17:11, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree with Winston Churchill (1940–2010) or Winston Churchill (born 1940). The current name Winston Churchill(grandson) is terrible: I have it on good authority that the original Winston Churchill was also someone's grandson.-AlexTG (talk) 01:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Years in article titles are only much use to people already familiar with the dates for individuals and unhelpful for others. The younger Winston was pretty much always identified and disambiguated in the media as the grandson of the wartime PM and that seems the natural way to go. Timrollpickering (talk) 07:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

How about Winston Churchill (Conservative politician) or Winston Churchill (Conservative MP)? The grandson thing really isn't very helpful - everyone (male) is someone's grandson! He may well be famous as being the grandson of a better known owner of the name, but it's a bit disingenuous to define him as such. And yes, his grandfather was also both of the things that I've suggested, but is sufficiently famous to be known by name alone. Ultimately, a link to his grandfather's article is right there in line one in case anyone goes wrong. d a n n o 21:16, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Let's just get this moved to Winston Churchill (1940–2010). Unfortunately there is no other obvious way do disambiguate this from Winston Churchill, as both were Conservative MPs. Someone had already attempted this move four years ago and was reverted, but the action created a redirect. I'll look into Requested moves. djr13 (talk) 02:31, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Birthplace
Ref 2 Express says London; ref 7 Guardian obit says Chequers. Jim Michael (talk) 06:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

From GRO Name: 	Winston S Churchill Mother's Maiden Surname: 	Digby Date of Registration: 	Oct Nov Dec 1940 Registration district: 	Wycombe Registration county: 	Hertfordshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex Volume Number: 	3a Page Number: 	2870

(as an aside there were 6 Winston Churchill's born in 1940) 86.176.12.58 (talk) 15:41, 5 March 2010 (UTC) CMICHAEL

 * Well then it might make sense to cite this additional source. Otherwise, we need to agree with the sources cited. The infobox also said chequers. It certainly could be that the Independent got it wrong. So what is "GRO" anyway, something published by the General Register Office?   W Nowicki (talk) 18:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * John Colville (Churchill's wartime Private Secretary) in his diary on 12 October 1940, says he (Colville) was at Chequers that day and that Churchill's grandson had been born there two days earlier. I am not adding this reference because the article's information is correct (dare I say "true") and adequately referenced. Thincat (talk) 19:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Next generation?
I'm sure many people would be interested to know the current state of the dynasty. His eldest son is not far off fifty. Do we know anything about him? Is there a new generation? 86.143.232.183 (talk) 22:57, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I certainly agree with you. Time is getting on.--Brenont (talk) 04:59, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

 * The younger younger Randolph is generally not a public figure but does have children, including an eldest son called Winston, continuing the Winton/Randolph alteration into a sixth generation. Timrollpickering (Talk) 23:29, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:37, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Winston Churchill (born 1940) → Winston Churchill (1940–2010) – Subject died in 2010. No other obvious way to disambiguate from Winston Churchill than by birth/death date, as both had been Conservative MPs. djr13 (talk) 03:00, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support - uncontroversial. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no particular objection to this, but if there is only one "Winston Churchill" who was born in 1940, why do we need to mention the year of death? We have titles for dead subjects that only note their birth year, e.g. Tom Hughes (pitcher, born 1878). bd2412  T 21:01, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You appear to be correct, the suggestion seems to be to refer according to birth or death depending on which has a "higher recognisability," with no mention whatsoever of "birth–death": Naming conventions (people). There doesn't seem to be a convention against using both for greater context and clarity. (I think the suggestion to use just one, for deceased subjects, is a terrible convention, although this obviously isn't the place to raise that broader concern. For here it's just whether this is or isn't desirable for this article.) djr13 (talk) 22:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support I agree with Djr13 that the use of the birth year alone for deceased subjects is misleading, except in cases where the year of birth is sufficiently remote from present such that it implies the subject is deceased (as is the case with BD2412's example.) In the case of this Winston Churchill, proper notation of his death in the article title is warranted. Xoloz (talk) 04:31, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support lifetimes should be used for all biographical articles that need year disambiguation whenever possible -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 05:17, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose, but support Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940) per WP:NCPDAB. When we do have to resort to years for disambiguation, birth year alone is preferable because we won't need to move a page when the subject dies. --BDD (talk) 17:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Why is it bad to move the page when the subject dies? Articles already normally receive extra attention upon the death of their subject. A page move could become as routine as adding the template:recent death. Xoloz (talk) 21:19, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * While there are tons of good reasons for moving pages, moves still involve a certain amount of disruption (cf. WP:TITLECHANGES), so changing existing practice to encourage such moves strikes me as an incredibly counterproductive measure. --BDD (talk) 00:25, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. In a case such as this one, I fear that having the birth year alone in the title creates the misimpression that the subject still lives.  I consider the prevention of that misimpression more important than the technical disruptions caused by the move.  I fully confess that I may not appreciate the scope of technical disruptions, however. Xoloz (talk) 03:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Comment Winston Churchill was not born in 1940 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.175.135 (talk) 18:48, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Journalism career
The article currently says:
 * In the 1950s he covered conflict in Yemen and Borneo, and in the 1960s the Vietnam War.

Churchill was born in 1940, so for the entirety of the 1950s he was either a child or a teenager. Was he really off covering foreign wars (in Yemen and Borneo) as a journalist? Perhaps the wording could be modified by someone who knows the relevant details to give specifics about the years he spent there. --Saforrest (talk) 22:31, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed.  The Daily Telegraph obituary which someone has included as a source refers to these journalistic assignments, but there is no indication that he moonlighted as a journalist while he was a schoolboy.   Several sources say he attended Eton, which normally would have covered him from ages 13 to 18, and then that he attended Oxford University where he got a fourth class degree.   I didn't know Oxford did fourth class degrees, but it's in the Daily Telegraph, so ... maybe they did back then.   Anyhow, that would normally have taken him three years, so from ages 19 to 22.   Which takes us well into the 1960s.   It's not impossible that he worked at some stage as a journalist in the university vacation, but it would be  ... very unusual.   Anyhow, it's not what the sources I found say.   I'll adjust the text appropriately unless someone else has got in first.   Regards Charles01 (talk) 20:05, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

The "Rommel gag"?
Under the heading "Early life: political career", the third sentence of the second paragraph states "When visiting an engineering firm he was again met by the Rommel gag, highlighting as his father had told him of the comparative disadvantage in his name." I am at a loss to understand what the phrase "the Rommel gag" means. A Google search turns up essentially nothing for that phrase, so apparently it is not a common figure of speech. Can anyone explain? Bricology (talk) 00:56, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , see his Telegraph obituary here, . What it's saying is that, on introducing himself as Winston Churchill, he received the disbelieving/mocking response, "Yes and I'm Erwin Rommel". It could perhaps be more clearly expressed. Regards. KJP1 (talk) 14:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The example in the Telegraph obit is from some squaddies after the Gulf War, not at an engineering firm early in his career. DuncanHill (talk) 15:23, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * But the "Rommel gag" is the same. I wasn't offering as a source, just as an explanation for the gag in response to the enquiry. KJP1 (talk) 15:32, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 31 May 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. See a pretty fair general agreement below to not requalify this article's title. Other different disambiguators have been suggested, so there does not appear to be consensus for a different qualifier looming in the near future. Excellent args all around. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover)  Paine Ellsworth , ed.  put'r there  00:32, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Winston Churchill (1940–2010) → Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940) – The current name contains a non-standard disambiguator that is not per WP:NCPDAB standards. The proposed title would both 1) distinguish the subject of this article from the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC Winston Churchill and 2) comply with WP:NCPDAB disambiguation standards. Steel1943 (talk) 17:00, 31 May 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Iffy★Chat -- 16:59, 14 June 2019 (UTC)  --Relisted.  Paine Ellsworth ,  ed.  put'r there  22:57, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Relist note: in an effort to garner consensus, members of associated WikiProjects have been notified of this requested move discussion.  Paine Ellsworth , ed.  put'r there  23:11, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Move to Winston Churchill (born 1940). I'm concerned that having "politician" as the descriptor will be more likely to confuse readers, as the most well known politician by this name is his grandfather. I've read over WP:NCPDAB, and the last paragraph states: "For historical figures for whom there is no dominant qualifier (at least no practical one), the descriptor may be omitted in favour of a single use of the date of birth or death. For historical figures, this will often be the date of death, when it is better known, more certain, or is more recognisable than their date of birth. Example: George Heriot and George Heriot (died 1610)." The example doesn't use the descriptor of "goldsmith" I assume because the most famous goldsmith of that name was his son. So that leads me to conclude that Winston Churchill (born 1940) would be the best title for this article. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:49, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:NCPDAB states that "...For historical figures for whom there is no dominant qualifier (at least no practical one), the descriptor may be omitted in favour of a single use of the date of birth or death.". For this subject "(politician)" would seem to clearly be the necessary dominant/practical qualifier for it. In the aforementioned example with George Heriot and George Heriot (died 1610), they do not have "qualifiers" since they had multiple roles which they were notable for, so just calling them "(politician)" or the like would not make sense; the oppose holds true with the subject of this article proposed to be moved since he was essentially solely notable for his role as a "politician". Steel1943  (talk) 05:35, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * He was only a backbench MP. I'd say he's far more notable as Sir Winston Churchill's grandson and namesake than as a politician in his own right. Opera hat (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2019 (UTC) Emphasis added. Opera hat (talk) 20:16, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually a pretty notable and long-serving backbench MP. I think it's unfair to say he was more notable as Sir Winston's grandson and namesake. He was certainly notable as a politician in his own right. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I was about to suggest Winston Churchill (grandson of the Prime Minister) as another option, but I'm guessing you wouldn't support that! Opera hat (talk) 20:10, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Support per nom. Standard disambiguator in these circumstances: occupation and DOB. He certainly was a politician. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:20, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. WP:NCPDAB says that the "qualifier, born XXXX" format should only be used when all other options are exhausted. An alternative way to disambiguate would be by the constituency he represented: Winston Churchill (Stretford MP), Winston Churchill (Davyhulme MP) or even Winston Churchill (Greater Manchester politician), which would cover both. (His more famous grandfather was MP for Manchester North West in the 1900s, but Greater Manchester did not exist until 1974.) Opera hat (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I would normally agree, but given he was MP for two different constituencies, both for a considerable period of time, this is not really feasible. "Greater Manchester MP" is an artificial construct that does not distinguish him from his grandfather in any case, given "Greater Manchester" could be taken to refer to the conurbation at any time. The "occupation, born XXXX" version is surely better than the "XXXX−XXXX" version? The latter really should only be used when all other options are exhausted. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:23, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I take your point about Greater Manchester, but why is using one of the constituency names not feasible? It wouldn't really matter which, though he represented Davyhulme more recently and for slightly longer. Opera hat (talk) 20:10, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Move to Winston Churchill (born 1940) per above. --Comment by  Selfie City  ( talk about my  contributions ) 23:32, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about this since I first saw this RM some time ago, and frankly I can't see a good way of disambiguating him. I would incline to "Winston Churchill (born 1940)" being perhaps the least-worst of the options suggested. DuncanHill (talk) 23:36, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: WP:NCPDAB says that when a single use of date of birth or death is used, for historical people it should usually be the date of death, so Winston Churchill (died 2010). He was more notable when he died in 2010 than he was when he was born in 1940. Opera hat (talk) 10:17, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't. WP:NCPDAB says to use date of birth/death by itself for "...historical figures for whom there is no dominant qualifier". The subject's "dominate qualifier" is "politician", so using "(politician, born 1940)" is preferred over just "(born 1940)" or "(died 2010)". The policy even seems to prefer using the date of birth over the date of death when the date of birth is known. Steel1943  (talk) 12:50, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * That's three people now who are backing Winston Churchill (born 1940), so would appear not to agree with you that "politician" is the dominant, or a practical, qualifier. I wrote " when a single use of date of birth or death is used" (and this is the option with the most support so far) "for historical people it should usually be the date of death", as this is more recognisable: people are almost always more famous when they die than they are when they are born. If consensus is swinging towards a single date, I think Winston Churchill (died 2010) would be better than Winston Churchill (born 1940). Opera hat (talk) 16:06, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for throwing that red herring. I was stating what WP:NCPDAB actually says, not what you think it does. In other words, you seem to be enforcing not WP:NCPDAB, but rather WP:IAR. Steel1943  (talk) 18:12, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comments "Politician" doesn't add anything of value, as I think there was at least one other Winston Churchill who was a politician. A date of birth seems to me to fix someone more securely in time than a date of death. DuncanHill (talk) 18:17, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Support I'm reluctant to drop the "politician", but if necessary.... Johnbod (talk) 21:28, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: the article says that “Winston Churchill MP” is often used as his name. Would that work? Another option: Winston Churchill, Jr.? Or even, Winston Spencer-Churchill? --Comment by  Selfie City  ( talk about my  contributions ) 14:27, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * His parliamentary career didn't overlap on his grandfather's life, but the "MP" distinction hasn't applied since 1997 and in any case is useless for distinguishing two historic figures. Ditto the full surname - all this branch of the family generally use(d) "Churchill" with "Spencer Churchill" (nobody's been able to agree about the hyphenation which is another obstacle) in some contexts, so again it's more associated with his grandfather. Timrollpickering (Talk) 09:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:51, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Current is perfect. Not a standard disambiguator? Well that’s stupid, it should be. People not particularly famously notable for anything are best disambiguated by birth/death years.  Both, birth-death, is actually most concise, and standard, is particularly suitable for people who could be alive, and is suitable for all long dead people if both birth and death years are known. Definitely don’t move per TITLECHANGES. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:29, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * ...WP:TITLECHANGES? Interesting ... it says to use Requested moves for controversial discussions ... which I did ... so don't move it per ... umm ... I don't see what you are referring to in there. Are you proposing to shut down Requested moves? Steel1943  (talk) 00:34, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Don’t do pointless fiddling. Page moves break all sorts of things. Name (born-died) is a perfectly good recognised consistent style, one of very few real world uses of parentheses. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:59, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't consider attempting to conform with established naming standards. That, and thanks to redirects, page moves don't break things. (Either way, thanks for clarifying since I found that previous statement a bit enigmatic.) Steel1943  (talk) 01:03, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * On-wiki things are mostly looked after, downstream offsite uses are not. Human memory, personal bookmarks, saved versions, printed copies, and all forms of reuse.  NB. Strong oppose to “politician”, he was not world-remarkable unlike his grandfather, and strong oppose “MP” as not distinguishing from his grandfather. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:14, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose This article has been on a bit of a tour over the years. At various times it has been at:
 * Winston Spencer Churchill
 * Winston Churchill (grandson)
 * Winston Churchill (1940-)
 * Winston Churchill (born 1940)
 * Winston Churchill (1940–2010)
 * Winston Churchill (parliamentarian)
 * Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940)
 * Much of the problem stems from the younger Winston never really making a mark in politics - he was a long serving backbencher but was largely known to the wider world because of his name rather than his actual career. Even his most prominence in his last years in Parliament came because of family matters and I'm not sure Winston Churchill (National Lottery winner without buying a ticket) would be terribly NPOV. I guess the current title is the least worst option, regardless of whether it fits the letter of naming conventions. Timrollpickering (Talk) 00:27, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Comment. I just do not get why we are making an exception for him from our standard disambiguator in these circumstances, which would be Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940)! That's the form we use for everybody else who needs disambiguating, so why is he different? Is it because he had a famous name? -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You tell us, you're the one who moved it. DuncanHill (talk) 10:38, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, because that was the consensus at the previous RM and we're bound by consensus. I didn't support that decision and would have supported the move now proposed if I'd taken part in the previous debate. We now have an opportunity to move it to the correct title by consensus. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:43, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Looking at the logs of the various titles, this, this, this, this, this, and this, we really should stop buggering about with this page. The logs and the history of moves are getting to the point that we should seriously think about a ban on any further moves or even move discussions. It's not helping. I haven't found all the RM discussions alluded to, the only previous one on this page is from 2014. DuncanHill (talk) 10:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Which is why we should move it to the standard disambiguator and leave it there! -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940)? Why not?  Do you not read that as answered above?  He is not primarily notable as a politician, but as a grandson of his namesake.  Born 1940?  That implies he is still alive.  1940-2010 is perfect disambiguation.  Recently alive, but now dead.  If our standard disambiguator routinely identifies dead people as living, it is stupid.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:18, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Of course he's known as a politician. He was an MP for years. I clearly remember him as a politician. So, you don't agree with WP:NCPDAB then? Because occupation and year of birth is the standard way to disambiguate there. You may think it is "stupid", but that's the way we do it and you thinking it's "stupid" is, with all due respect, irrelevant to the fact that's the long-established method of doing it that we seem to be ignoring in this debate. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:11, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "Politician" is not practical because his grandfather is much better known as a politician, as a disambiguator it fails. Disambiguating by occupation is great, if it works.  Disambiguating by birth year implies a living person.   "Long established method" is a really bad argument, especially where there are obvious unstated assumptions, such as is the person historic (known by years active and year of death), or a living person, or in between.  The following are all perfectly disambiguated in keeping with real world styling that readers know and understand:  Anna of Saxony (1567–1613), Princess Anna of Saxony (1836–1859), Princess Anna of Saxony (1903–1976), Princess Anna of Saxony (1929–2012).  For the recently deceased, the year of death is likely the most helpful disambiguator over occupation and birth year.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:28, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * We have, I think, four Winston Churchills, of whom three were politicians. DuncanHill (talk) 10:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * ""Politician" is not practical because his grandfather is much better known as a politician, as a disambiguator it fails.". Yes, that's why I'm proposing Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940) as our standard disambiguator! Good grief! As for the rest, you're arguing against the guidelines, which support the form I've just stated. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , I think the guideline you are citing is meant to be implemented evenly, as it is at this moment with Yisrael Katz (politician, born 1927) and Yisrael Katz (politician, born 1955), and not when one of the names has been deemed primary. Havradim (talk) 21:19, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The guideline WP:NCPDAB doesn't actually support the proposed title. It says "failing a practical single qualifier, the disambiguator can be expanded with a second qualifier" and gives the example of Roger Taylor (Queen drummer)—not Roger Taylor (drummer, born 1949). As the most obvious primary qualifier here, politican or MP, could apply to at least three people of this name, standard practice in similar cases is to add a second, geographic qualifier, e.g. Winston Churchill (Davyhulme MP) as I suggested above. WP:NCPDAB says that only when "the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers" should the date of birth be added to the primary qualifier. It can be resolved in a more straightforward manner, so to move to Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940) would go against WP:NCPDAB. Opera hat (talk) 23:22, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * ...and as for other guidelines: WP:CRITERIA says that article titles should be concise: no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. Winston Churchill (1940–2010), Winston Churchill (born 1940) and Winston Churchill (died 2010) are all the same length and all unambiguously identify the subject. WP:PRECISION says that titles should be precise enough to be unambiguous, but no more precise than that - adding "politician" is needlessly precise when using the date or birth or death alone unambiguously identifies its subject. And as for WP:CONSISTENCY, titles should be consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. I just checked the categories for Churchill's contemporaries from Category:UK MPs 1970–1974 through to Category:UK MPs 1992–1997 and only one(!) article out of the hundreds, John Wells (British politician, born 1925), used the proposed format. The form of disambiguation most consistent with similar articles would be to use a constituency name. So different guidelines could be used to argue for different titles, but none of them supports the title proposed in this RM. Opera hat (talk) 23:56, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * ...Interesting that you chose to quote only the following from WP:NCPDAB regarding how it works, stating that the date of birth should be added to the primary qualifier only when "the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers". The entire sentence from WP:NCPDAB states, in full, states the following: "Where the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers, e.g. for the two notable poker players called David Baker, date of birth can be added in this format: .". So, there are now multiple claims and disputes regarding what the disambiguator should be to a point where "...the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner..." definitely applies in this case, and WP:NCPDAB states in casss like this to use  as a disambiguator in this case ... which would be "(politician, born 1940)". So, I have no idea why you are claiming that "...none of [the mentioned guidelines] supports (sic) the title proposed in this RM" when WP:NCPDAB states almost plain as day and supports that the a disambiguator such as "(politician, born 1940)" could be used in a case such as this.  Steel1943  (talk) 23:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * In the spirit of using full quotes: Where the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers, e.g. for the two notable poker players called David Baker, date of birth can be added in this format: "Name (qualifier, born YYYY)". A comma should be used, and born should not be abbreviated to b., so: David Baker (poker player, born 1972) and David Baker (poker player, born 1986). The precise implementation of the above would be Winston Churchill (politician, born 1873) and Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940). Havradim (talk) 22:11, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Minor touché there. A monkey wrench gets thrown into that thought when one has to consider the subject currently at the title Winston Churchill is the obvious primary topic. Either way, I'm going to create Winston Churchill (politician, born 1873) Winston Churchill (politician, born 1874) now as a redirect. Steel1943  (talk) 22:56, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Fixed birth year. Steel1943  (talk) 22:58, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose per Timrollpickering. As others have pointed out, putting "politician" immediately after his name would be very confusing. This article should be left as is. Display name 99 (talk) 20:39, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Why on earth would it be confusing to use Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940)? Might someone confuse a politician born in 1940 with the famous Winston Churchill?! Maybe he was a few months old when he became PM and five when the war finished! The most precocious person of all time! -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:29, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , firstly, your comment does nothing to indicate what is wrong with the current title. Secondly, we usually use the title "born" in articles only for someone who is still alive. That is what it implies. Display name 99 (talk) 15:37, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "...we usually use the title "born" in articles only for someone who is still alive..." I'm sorry, but that is just not true. The "(...born ####)" is preferred over and used over "(...died ####)" whenever the birthdate is known. Using "died" instead of "born" primarily occurs when the subject's birth date is unknown. Using "born" over "died" and vice versa in disambiguators is not dependent on the subject being alive or not. Steel1943  (talk) 16:25, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Umm I was talking about doing things the way we have it in the title of this article. Display name 99 (talk) 19:01, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "...I was talking about doing things the way we have it in the title of this article." That was not clear in the statement you made in the least. That, and I am also not understanding what you mean anyways. To me, it sounds like you are saying "don't change the title's disambiguator since the proposal is different than the title's current disambiguator" ... which, to me, is not a strong reason to keep it where it is, especially given the multiple WP:NCPDAB issues with it I have pointed out thus far. Steel1943  (talk) 19:13, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Move to Winston Churchill (died 2010) per Opera hat. Policy should be followed, but what to do in this case if both were politicians and both were associated strongly with the 1940s. Ergo, both (1940-2010) and (politician, born 1940) don't work for me. Although upon close inspection no one would really confuse the two, WP:LEAST tells me that we ought to employ the KISS principle. I would invoke WP:IAR anytime the normal rule isn't really working, but the case of George Heriot (died 1610) invoked in WP:NCPDAB (and mentioned above) is instructive: Similar occupations, with the seemingly less notable subject being dabbed by death date—there because birth date isn't clear, and here because birth date is, well, confusing. Havradim (talk) 18:52, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Exactly. We use the date of death for Heriot because we don't know his year of birth for sure! But why is this Winston Churchill's birth date in any way confusing? I should have thought it was a clear disambiguator if he was born in the year that his grandfather became Prime Minister! -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:45, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If I'm looking for Winston Churchill and I see Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940) or even just Winston Churchill (born 1940), I might click (at first glance—the eyes can play tricks on us) on those thinking that Winston Churchill is less specific and the other ones are the target. There is a far less chance of this happening with Winston Churchill (died 2010) because there can be no mistaking the two centuries. The same cannot be said for 1940, as you yourself have pointed out he was born in the year that his grandfather became Prime Minister. Havradim (talk) 17:48, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but people not reading things correctly is just not a good reason to go against standard practice. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:58, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Just adding that the above option is the only one mentioned clearly in NCPDAB in a case of two similar historical figures (both George Heriot, both goldsmiths) where one remains primary and the other disambiguated. Havradim (talk) 06:23, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment/question: As I see that the discussion for this seems to be kind of everywhere, I have a thought/question: Is there a form of natural disambiguation (with no disambiguator) for the subject of this article that would differentiate the subject from Winston Churchill? Steel1943  (talk) 17:59, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * This source seems to imply we can use Winston Churchill Jr. The Wall Street Journal is more explicit with ...better known as Winston Churchill Jr., but I couldn't find the link. It's not much, but maybe enough to not be made up. A more COMMON but far worse option is Winston Churchill's grandson. Havradim (talk) 20:13, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Never commonly known as Winston Churchill Jr in his own country. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:58, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with Necrothesp on this point. Opera hat (talk) 23:22, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Comment. Given the (quite frankly, in my opinion, bizarre, since it is the version we almost always use and have used on thousands of articles!) opposition to Winston Churchill (politician, born 1940), I have no problem with Winston Churchill (Davyhulme MP). Whilst he did represent two constituencies, he is probably best-known for that one. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:50, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * How many articles use (yyyy - yyyy)?
 * Winston Churchill (Davyhulme MP) looks like it may as well be Winston Churchill (not the real one). --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:56, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Is that not the whole point of disambiguation when we have a primary topic? It's very odd that a special case appears to be being made for this person just because he had a famous name. For British MPs, we usually disambiguate as "politician", "British politician", "English (or Scottish etc) politician", "[Party] politician", "[Constituency] MP", and "politician, born XXXX", in that order. Since the first four obviously don't serve to disambiguate him from his grandfather, we can default to constituency. Usually I don't like doing this when an MP has represented two constituencies for more or less equal periods, but given the circumstances... -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:58, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * For the record, I have disambiguated hundreds of British MP articles. Strange how controversy over this method of disambiguation, which has always worked perfectly well, only begins when we come across someone with a famous name! -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:03, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You must realise though that his notoriety is the cause of all the problems—there are historical icons the names of whom we don't want to botch. Otherwise we could have had Winston Churchill (prime minister) alongside Winston Churchill (parliamentarian) with scarcely a problem. I don't quite like the Davyhulme MP either but I could agree on it. Havradim (talk) 11:42, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't particularly like it myself, but I think (and the guidelines say) it is to be preferred to the proposed title. Opera hat (talk) 13:49, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose and keep current title.  The proposed title "Winston Churchill (born 1940)" or "Winston Churchill (politician born 1940)" reads as if the person is still alive.  When we see lists of names (for example in the index of a reference book), we are used to seeing them as bbbb-dddd for deceased individuals and born bbbb or bbbb-   for those still living.  Therefore the proposed change introduces a confusion where none exists at present, and does nothing to improve the disambig function as the current title clearly serves to distinguish him from his grandfather.
 * And the "politician" part is otiose as we are not concerned with distinguishing him from a cricketer, a comedian or a musician, but from a (more famous) politician. There is nothing wrong with the name the article is currently at and the proposal should probably be closed.  Sussexonian (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with all your points to the exclusion of this one (emphasis mine): ...the proposed change introduces a confusion where none exists at present, and does nothing to improve the disambig function as the current title clearly serves to distinguish him from his grandfather. This might have been true if we also had Winston Churchill (1873-1965) Winston Churchill (1874-1965) to compare to. It would also be in keeping with precedent, such as in the example Princess Anna of Saxony (1903-1976) and Princess Anna of Saxony (1929-2012) mentioned above. But Winston Churchill is so powerful an historic icon that we don't want to add that descriptor. In WP:NCPDAB it states Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators (readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it)... It is not a stretch to imagine a young student having some difficulty with the dates, especially with nothing else to compare them to. Havradim (talk) 06:11, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * A student who is even slightly familiar with Wikipedia practice will understand that the very notable Winston has no disambiguator attached. And seeing that your proposal is to add the year of death but no birth I don't see how your objection does not apply to your own proposal too.  It might be best to use Winston Churchill Jr (which is seen occasionally) or Winston Churchill (grandson) (which is ugly but clearly identifies who the subject is) - but I'm not proposing either of those as they don't seem to have any support here.  Sussexonian (talk) 11:55, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I explained this point above; (died 2010) is the only date-based title from a different century altogether, greatly minimising any confusion, and it seems (to me) to be strongly policy-based. But Winston Churchill Jr. is the silver bullet, although so far there is no consensus for it. Havradim (talk) 21:39, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Winston Churchill Jr." would be a completely made up name. It implies the son of a man with the same name, which is rare these days in the UK (Ian Paisley Jr and Roy Beggs Jr are the only British politicians who spring to mind and both are actually called that). Timrollpickering (Talk) 23:27, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose per and others. I won't repeat. --В²C ☎ 18:14, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Political career - questionable statements
There are a few statements in the "Political career" section of the article that could be seen as dubious. Firstly, the claim relating to his failure in the 1967 Manchester Gorton by-election "spite of the unpopularity of the incumbent Labour government, he lost, but only by 577 votes" suggests (perhaps unintentionally) that this was a poor result. In fact he still achieved a swing of over 9% and Gorton was considered a safe seat for Labour. Secondly the claim "Churchill resumed the family tradition of protecting Ulster Unionism" is contentious as his grandfather, Winston Churchill's record on this was mixed as he was seen as an opponent of Ulster Unionism in the years leading up to the Great War when he was in Asquith's Liberal Government. That said Lord Randolph Churchill had been a strong Unionist in the 19th century (and indeed in the 1910s Winston Churchill's attitudes were contrasted with those of his father). Most problematic is the claim "Boundary changes which took effect at the 1983 general election made his seat more marginal (it was subsequently taken by the Labour Party), and he transferred to the nearby Davyhulme constituency". Actually Davyhulme was a new constituency in 1983 which included parts of Churchill's Stretford seat, notably Urmston. The post 1983 Stretford was very different to its predecessor and the estimates produced for the BBC and ITN prior to the 1983 election suggested that had the new boundries been used in 1979 it would have been won by Labour with a majority of over 3,000. Saying it was more marginal is an understatement. Dunarc (talk) 19:07, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal
In either 1958 or 1959, Winston was a summer intern on the copy desk of the Wall Street Journal. 74.105.130.157 (talk) 05:13, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Winston Churchill (1940–2010)


text:
Tim Holland

Tim Holland may refer to:

 * Tim Holland (backgammon) (1931–2010), backgammon world champion
 * Timothy Holland, geologist
 * Tim Holland (politician), Canadian Green Party candidate
 * Joe Holland (actor and director), sometimes credited as Tim Holland
 * Sole (hip hop artist) (born 1977), real name Tim Holland

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Tim Holland


text:
Nakur

Nakur is a town, tehsil and a municipal board in Saharanpur district in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh.

Geography
Nakur is located at 29.92°N, 77.3°W. It has an average elevation of 261 metres (856 feet). It is located 24 km from Saharanpur.

History
It is the oldest tehsil. In mythology, it is said that Nakul from the Pandwas founded Nakur. It was done when the Mahabharat war was fought, and later people settled. There is a tree in Nakur, under which it is supposed that Nakul stayed. The tree is in a temple called "Mahadev Mandir". Nakur has an important Pathan history. Pashtuns from Sher Shah Suri progeny made their home in Nakur. It was during the era of Ibrahim Khan Suri (grandfather of Sher Shah Suri) an adventurer from Roh, Afghanistan, who became the Jagirdar in Haryana that the Pashtuns flourished in the nearby areas. Today the progeny of great Sher Shah Suri empire has its niche in Nakur. The town has a glorious history of inter community relations.

Nakur is listed in the Ain-i-Akbari as a pargana under Saharanpur sarkar, producing a revenue of 1,387,070 dams for the imperial treasury and supplying a force of 300 infantry and 40 cavalry. The presence of Afghan and Brahmin communities in Nakur at the time are noted.

Demographics
India census, Nakur had a population of 22,712. Males constitute 52.24% of the population and females 47.75%. Nakur has an average literacy rate of 72.78%, lower than the national average of 74.04%; male literacy is 80.03%, and female literacy is 64.92%. In Nakur, 13.83% of the population is under 6 years of age.

Nakur Villages
Nakur is a tehsil and under this tehsil, these are the villages and area comes under this tehsil

 * Alipura
 * Saroorpur Gada
 * Ahmedpur Brahman
 * Khairpura
 * Beedpur

title: Nakur


text: User talk:68.232.228.33

title: User talk:68.232.228.33


text:
The River (1984 film)

The River is a 1984 American drama film directed by Mark Rydell, written by Robert Dillon and Julian Barry, and starring Sissy Spacek, Mel Gibson, and Scott Glenn. The film tells the story of a struggling farm family in a Tennessee river valley trying to keep its farm from going under in the face of bank foreclosures and floods. The father faces the dilemma of having to work as a strikebreaker in a steel mill to keep his family farm from foreclosure. It was based on the true story of farmers who unknowingly took jobs as strikebreakers at a steel mill after their crops had been destroyed by rain.

The River was theatrically released on December 19, 1984, by Universal Pictures. It received mixed reviews, with critics praising Spacek's performance and the cinematography, but criticizing the screenplay, execution, and Gibson's performance, whom many considered to have been miscast. It was a box office failure, grossing only $11.5 million against an $18 million budget. Despite that, it received four nominations at the 57th Academy Awards; Best Actress (for Spacek), Best Original Score, Best Sound, Best Cinematography, and won the Special Achievement Award.

Plot
Tom and Mae Garvey are a hard-working couple living with their two children on the east Tennessee farm owned by Tom's family for generations. They and many of their neighbors have hit hard times as of late. A downturn in the economy has led to dwindling land prices.

Their biggest problem has been that their crop land has been prone to flooding as the property is adjacent to a river. Manipulating the powers that be include local senator Neiswinder and the local bank. Joe Wade, who also grew up in the area and now runs the local milling company that sets the local grain prices, is secretly working to buy up the properties along the river so he can build a dam. The dam would generate electricity but more importantly for Wade, it would provide irrigation opportunities for farm properties away from the river, such as his own.

Wade's maneuverings coupled with many other farming problems makes it increasingly difficult for Tom and Mae to hold on to their farm. Tom is determined at any cost stay on the land of his ancestors. Through his cousin, Tom begins work at a steel factory in order to prevent foreclosure on his farm, only finding out he's a strikebreaker as they're crossing the picket lines. Work in the mill is incredibly hard, the conditions are tough and pay is meager.

The rest of the Garvey family is left alone while Tom is away working. Mae is involved in an accident on the farm where she loses a lot of blood and almost her arm. Some time later, Tom invites his family to come visit him in the city where he and Mae compare how things are going in their daily lives now spent apart. The strike ends, but as part of the returning workers' deal, the strike breakers must walk out of the factory without the protection they had when entering. Instead of an all-out fight, the workers and scabs observe one another, recognizing each others' desperation before the workers begin shaming the scabs.

Tom returns to the farm and is pleased with the crops but Wade has Tom's corn inspected. Wade offers less than what the crop cost Tom to plant which leads to a confrontation where Wade reveals his plans for a hydroelectric dam and the redevelopment of Tom's land. Tom returns to the farm where his machinery is failing and another flood threatens the farm.

An exhausted Mae finally confronts Tom over his stubbornness, as he is continuing to fight a losing battle with Wade and the river. The farming community bands together to build a levee providing some relief. Wade arrives with a truck full of bankrupt farmers intent on dismantling the levee for cash. Wade offers the farmer's on Tom's side a bonus if they sabotage the levee. Tom pleads with both sides, many of whom were in Tom's shoes but lost their farms, however the levee is breached and the floodwaters flow in. Despite all of this, Tom begins picking up sandbags to repair the levee alone. Inspired by his dedication, his family and eventually, the onlookers help Tom repair the levee. Wade realizes he's lost the battle and admires Tom's determination, but points out that sooner or later nature will upend Tom's farm and Wade will be waiting.

The Garvey family has a successful harvest.

Cast

 * Sissy Spacek as Mae Garvey
 * Mel Gibson as Tom Garvey
 * Shane Bailey as Lewis Garvey
 * Becky Jo Lynch as Beth Garvey
 * Scott Glenn as Joe Wade
 * Don Hood as Senator Neiswinder
 * Billy "Green" Bush as Harve Stanley
 * James Tolkan as Howard Simpson
 * Jack Starrett as foreman Swick

Production
Director Mark Rydell viewed the characters in this drama as iconicly American, and he was eager to cast Sissy Spacek as the farm wife because of her performance in Coal Miner's Daughter and her home on a farm near Charlottesville, Virginia. Rydell said, "She is the consummate American rural young woman, with strength and fiber and a luminous quality." Mel Gibson begged Rydell to let him play the Tennessee farmer who reminded him of his father, but the director was reluctant because of Gibson's Australian accent. Before Gibson left for England to film The Bounty, he begged Rydell not to cast the part yet. Rydell recalled, "He came back to my house in Los Angeles and started reading the script, talking, reading the newspaper, in this perfect Tennessee accent. I was really impressed, even when he stood next to Sissy, who's like a tuning fork when it comes to accents, he had damn well done it."

The River was filmed in the Holston Valley area of Church Hill, Tennessee. The filmmakers purchased 440 acre along the Holston River for the farm set and planted corn. Most of the filming was done along Goshen Valley Road and around the Goshen Valley Park area. Goshen Valley Road heads south from highway 11W in Church Hill, Tennessee. The cast and their families moved to the area a month before the start of production to connect with the local people and learn farming skills. The floods in the film were supplied by the Tennessee Valley Authority and the Army Corps of Engineers with water from the Fort Patrick Henry Dam. The bank and downtown scenes were filmed in the town of Gate City, Virginia. The tent city and a few other scenes were filmed in Kingsport, Tennessee, while some factory scenes were filmed in Birmingham, Alabama. Scenes that were filmed at Double Springs Baptist Church in Jonesborough, Tennessee did not make the final cut of the movie. The film was completed for under $18 million.

Music
The musical score was composed and conducted by John Williams and also featured songs by country artists including George Strait.

It was announced that Intrada Records will release an expanded and remastered version of Williams' score on May 5, 2020. The new release will feature the complete score (including previous and unheard content) and the original soundtrack album.

Reception
The River was the last of three 1984 films, including Country and Places in the Heart, that shared the themes of a family's devotion to their farm, the destructive force of nature, an unsympathetic bureaucracy and a determined woman who binds her family together.

The film received negative reviews, with praise for Sissy Spacek's performance being a notable exception. On Rotten Tomatoes, it holds an approval rating of 24% on Rotten Tomatoes from 21 critics. Mel Gibson later regretted that his portrayal of Tom Garvey was so stubborn that the audience lost sympathy, and said that he had been miscast for the role because he was too young and "pretty" at the time.

The film opened Wednesday, December 19, 1984, in 3 theaters and grossed $40,540 in its first seven days to Christmas Day and went on to gross $11.5 million in the United States and Canada.

Awards
The film was nominated for Academy Awards in Best Actress in a Leading Role (Sissy Spacek), Best Cinematography, Best Music, Original Score and Best Sound (Nick Alphin, Robert Thirlwell, Richard Portman and David M. Ronne). It also received a special Oscar for sound effects editing (Kay Rose).

title: The River (1984 film)


text:
Blephariceromorpha

The Blephariceromorpha are an infraorder of nematoceran flies, including three families associated with fast-flowing, high-mountain streams, where the larvae can be found.

One recent classification based largely on fossils splits this group into two infraorders, and removes the Nymphomyiidae to its own suborder, but this has not gained wide acceptance. More recently, the family Blephariceridae has been considered a member of the infraorder Psychodomorpha, with Deuterophlebiidae and Nymphomyiidae either assigned their own infraorders or left unassigned to infraorder. The placement of these three families remains controversial.

title: Blephariceromorpha


text:
Beni Salah

Beni Salah (or other spelling variations) may refer to:

 * Bni Salah, a small town in Tangier-Tétouan region of Morocco
 * Bani Saleh Rural District, Khuzestan Province, Iran
 * Banū Salih rulers of the Kingdom of Nekor, in present-day Morocco
 * Beni Saleh tribe living near Blida in Algeria, speakers of Kabyle
 * Beni Salah mountain near Souk Ahras, Algeria

title: Beni Salah


text:
Talk:Tbilisi

Estonians & Germans in Tbilisi
User:LeontinaVarlamonva, next time please take a look at the sources before you change information on wikipedia. While German and Estonian individuals may live in the city of Tbilisi, there are no longer relevant communities of those people. In fact, the source that shows 2014 figures keeps the entries for German and Estonian populations in the city blank. Not only can you see that directly in the sources, but also this reasoning was mentioned in the original edit I made.

"Ethnic composition of Georgia 2014" clearly differentiates between Yazidis and Kurds, and lists 11194 Yazidis in Tbilisi 'but has a blank entry for Kurds in Tbilisi. Same goes for German and Estonian entries.'

To insist on keeping a mention specifically for Germans and Estonians, while the population census does not support the notion of them having relevant communities, makes no sense. AncapOgre (talk) 02:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Referenced website (mashke.org) seems unofficial/unsafe website and also numbers don't add up...For example, it says 740 Poles for all of Georgia but if you scroll to cities they're mostly blank or few have 1 Polish person. So where do these 740 Polish people live, in the air?! I think this is nonsense. Don't delete referenced information until you find better source than this mashke.org, which seems like unsafe website.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 07:26, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You are basically vandalizing a page because you don't like things. None of the cited sources mention anything about Estonians but you insist on adding them back. I ask you now - stop this harmful behavior.

 * Also, Mashke obtains data from government statistics and has citations in the website. You can check with Geostat and you will see the numbers match up. It is used widely on both English and Georgian wikipedias for Georgian population statistic. "I don't even know what it is" is NOT a justification to just delete it.AncapOgre (talk) 07:56, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Mashke is not a known or reliable source of information and as I say above, numbers also don't add up. I know how to count. Website doesn't have even description and I think it infected my computer with viruses. No other place I search make references to Mashke. It is a self-published information probably by some random person.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 02:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Infected your computer with a virus? Now you just sound deranged.
 * If you want to know why numbers for small minorities cannot add up, feel free to read up on methodology for Georgian census at resources provided by Geostat and Census.ge, but I'll give you cliffnotes - for very insignificant minorities, Geostat refuses to include them in per-settlement breakdown unless they are among the top 3 ethnicities in the settlement. That is why you cannot have all 740 Polish persons and their location broken down. But the 740 figure is fully supported by the official figures, see here - https://rm.coe.int/third-state-report-georgia/168075fc5e.
 * Furthermore, you keep pretending like you just want good quality sources, but in the meantime you are repeatedly adding back the mention of Estonians and Germans when NONE of the existing sources support that claim, Estonians are not mentioned in any of the citations in that paragraph, and the only ones that mention Germans are dated from 19th century - the newer ones omit them as a group.
 * You are engaging in harmful vandalism and I am absolutely going to report you now. AncapOgre (talk) 04:27, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Chiming in here. Some numbers in the ethnic stats are intentionally left blank, a general practice in population statistics. Typically if there only one or a few people of a certain group they don't get presented at the lowest level but only totalled at the (next) aggregated level, for example municipality. In this case they present them with three dots ... (Which doesn't mean nothing but 0-x). I dont know what is the number for X bit I guess it is somewhere between 2 and 4. Reason is to prevent individual numbers leading to individual citizens which is a no-go in statistics. Although I do have to note that some records show a 1, for which I don't have an explanation. It shouldn't be like that. I have been working with the popstats mashke for more than a year and they present the official statistics. You can cross reference the village statistics of 2014 with the census summary (in Georgian) of Geostat. The ethnic data are correct. Again, the totals are aggregated including the ... So if you count only the numbers your total won't add up because you miss a lot. Hope this explains. Labrang (talk) 19:02, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Just to explain why some settlements have records showing 1 - While it's true that only municipalities and cities get full breakdown by ethnicity and smaller settlements don't, Geostat still publishes specific numbers for the three major ethnicities in every settlement, no matter how little representation some of those ethnicities have in that settlement. If you see numbers for just two ethnicities, that's because that's all the data for the settlement.
 * Sometimes you may even more ethnicities being highlighted, but this occurs only when at least two of them are "tied" and have the same representation in that settlement, therefore both being in top 3. You can check the explicit records for Ledgebe as an example of that. AncapOgre (talk) 02:10, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Nutsubidze Plato
User:Andro Keshelashvili I fully believe that your intentions are not to vandalize the page and that you truly believe Nutsubidze Plato to be part of Saburtalo, as that is how many residents refer to it, but the information is freely available at https://maps.tbilisi.gov.ge/. Here's a screenshot that shows the official border between Vake and Saburtalo as defined by the Tbilisi City Hall, with Nutsubidze Plato being highlighted. It is clearly shown that Nutsubidze Plato falls on the Vake side of the administrative boundary. Please feel free to double-check the information for yourself.--AncapOgre (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tbilisi


text:
Marcos Armas

Marcos Rafael Armas Ruiz (born August 5, 1969) is a Venezuelan former first baseman in Major League Baseball who played for the Oakland Athletics during the 1993 season. He was listed at 6' 5" (1.95 m) and 190 lb. (86 kg). He is the half-brother of former outfielder Tony Armas and uncle of pitcher Tony Armas Jr.

In one season with Oakland, Armas batted .194 (6-for-31), with one home run, two doubles, seven runs, and one run batted in in 15 games.

title: Marcos Armas


text:
Minot Daily News

The Minot Daily News is an American daily newspaper, printed in downtown Minot, North Dakota. It originated as the Burlington Reporter and was published out of Burlington, then the county seat, until the early 20th century. It is the primary daily paper for Ward County, as well as north central and northwest North Dakota, with an average daily circulation of 11,500 on weekdays.

title: Minot Daily News


text:
Talk:Ge (Cyrillic)

Untitled
What is a "sounded counterpart"?? 66.245.31.69 22:56, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * It should have been voiced counterpart. Mikkalai 06:59, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

Page move
Can anyone suggest moving this page to He (Cyrillic) with Ge (Cyrillic) being a dis-ambiguation page for this article and Ghe?? 66.245.69.118 23:06, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Why would it be? Ge and Ghe are different letters, (although they may denote the same sound). Are you goung to disambiguate English "Es" and "See" letters, because they may refer to the same sound 'sssss'? Mikkalai 01:34, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * That is nonsense. The articles are at C and S and don't need to be at a dis-ambiguation page. 66.245.107.78 01:39, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * the same nonsense is to disambguate this article and Ghe. Mikkalai 03:50, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The distinction between glyphs (symbols) and phonemes (sounds) can get lost in languages that are written phonetically. Of course it comes up when talking about different languages' Cyrillic alphabets. Are Ukrainian He and Russian Ge the same "letter", or do both languages use a different glyph for the letter "Ge"? Also "E", "Ye", and "I". Is the serbian Ej (Ј) the same letter as Russian "I Kratkoe" (Й)? I'm sometimes tempted to propose articles per phoneme, each of which shows the different glyphs used in different languages.

 * Articles on phonemes already exist, and they are separate from articles on letters. Articles on letters generally speak only about glyhps, of course with mentioning phonemes which are represented by the glyphs. Nikola 11:40, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the national alphabets are variations of the Cyrillic script or writing system. The only way to disambiguate them completely would be to to have a separate set of letter articles for each language A (Belarusian), A (Russian), A (Ukrainian), etc., but that would be counterproductive, confusing, and very silly.

Since we're talking about "Alphabets", I think the simplest solution is to stick to articles for "letters", and explain the different usages in each. There will be some duplication of material, and many cross-references. Each alphabet's letters will be aggregated in its article, and all of them in Cyrillic alphabet.

—Michael Z. 20:01, 2004 Oct 15 (UTC)

Is the name "Ghe" (as opposed to "Ge") used in linguistics, or is it just an expedient spelling of the name, made up to allow a separate Wikipedia article? Would it make more sense to call it "Ukrainian Ge", to go along with Ukrainian I and Ukrainian Ye? However, it was in Belarusian at one time too.

—Michael Z. 20:01, 2004 Oct 15 (UTC)
 * Ghe is a different letter, hence a separate article. And the name is in use. Mikkalai 20:21, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Ukrainian I is a very bad name, the letter today might have been used only in Ukrainian, but it is one of the letters in the original Cyrillic alphabet. No idea for a better name though. Nikola 11:40, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Why would you need another name? It is in regular usage and unique as an article name. Mikkalai 17:02, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * "A iotified is ligature of I Ukrainian and A". Whoever reads that will be puzzled how could that ligature be made centuries before Ukraine existed. Nikola 15:17, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * True, but it seems to work the way it is described in Ya (Cyrillic). I can't think of a name that wouldn't suffer from similar inadequacies  (e.g., "Early Cyrillic I is the twelfth letter of the Ukrainian Alphabet").
 * Anyway, a redirect can be added if another name is needed for linking in a different context. A 'canonical' name is only needed for the article title, and alternatives can be made clear in the article (one of these days I'll get around to writing it).  —Michael Z. 18:31, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)

 * Sorry to keep asking, but I guess my original question wasn't clearly stated, so no one has answered it yet. Is there published precedent for using "Ge" and "Ghe" to differentiate Г and Ґ?  Are "Ge" and "Ghe" used as transcriptions of the letters' sounds, or transliterations, or merely convenient English labels?  Are  "Ge" and "Ghe" pronounced differently in Russian or in English?  What is the Russian name for the Ukrainian letter Ґ?
 * I can't find any examples. The Unicode/ISO standard calls them "GHE" and "GHE WITH UPTURN", and MARC standards use "GE" and "GE WITH UPTURN".  The Adobe Glyph List uses "Gecyrillic" and "Gheupturncyrillic", but the former might be for historic reasons, since the other modified Ge's are called "Ghemiddlehookcyrillic", "Ghestrokecyrillic", "enghecyrillic".
 * So Wikipedia's current terminology does conflict with some standardized nomenclatures. It looks like these standards bodies have played it safe and used a modifier ("with upturn") to keep the names unambiguous.
 * —Michael Z. 21:26, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

 * Well, this is a valid concern then. I'd move Ghe to Ge with upturn and make it redirect here, unless someone disagrees? Nikola 03:21, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Why does italicised г look like an inverted s? (г) Adam Cuerden 18:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Italicized Cyrillic letters are generally made to resemble their cursive counterparts, which in the case of Ge looks rather like a backwards s. Although on the particular font my browser uses, italic Ge looks like the regular Ge, just tilted. Vbdrummer0 23:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

 * See Cyrillic_alphabet. —Michael Z. 2006-11-14 01:40 Z

 * The heading has been modified. The link is now Cyrillic alphabet. Coroboy (talk) 14:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

H sound
Г can also make the h sound. Гусар is actually pronounced more or less like Хусар. I added it to the article, but it was deleted.... Davidleeroth 17:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The article already covers that in greater detail. It's actually . Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry about that. I have no idea wtf the IPA alphabet means.  I think I'm doing pretty good с кириллицой :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Davidleeroth (talk • contribs) 20:56, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

Bulgarian
I removed the claim, that the bulgarian г is pronounced as a palatalised g, since Bulgarian doesn't really have palatalised consonants. See: Handbook of the International Phonetic Association (1999). http://books.google.com/books?id=33BSkFV_8PEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=handbook+of+the+international+phonetic+association&hl=en&ei=YdmxTb-aIIvqObXNjfMI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Bulgarian&f=false --Kreuzkümmel (talk) 19:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The authors of the chapter on Bulgarian in the IPA handbook do not claim that there are no palatalized consonants in Bulgarian, but only that they are going to interpret them as C+j. --V111P (talk) 09:13, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Distinct italic form?
Is there a source that can describe why the standard and italic forms of г are so distinctly different? Honestly there are a lot of Cyrillic letters that need this explanation, but I think this is one of the most prominent. I would assume it has something to do with the evolution of handwritten Cyrillic, but that really doesn't say much in the long run, and it would be nice to have a more precise explanation. Wohdin (talk) 19:58, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, evolution Шурбур (talk) 09:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

H/g in Ukrainian and Belarusian
In Ukrainian and Belarusian, a voiced velar plosive /ɡ/ 'is present only in loanwords and is written with the Cyrillic letter Ghe with upturn (Ґ ґ) in Ukrainian and with the digraph кг in Belarusian.

This is not completely true. For example there is Ukrainian word ґава (crow) is pronouced with a voiced velar plosive /ɡ/ (gava). I am not fluent in Belarusian but I think there are some words where this occurs. RMN120501 (talk) 09:59, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

The name ghe
As far as I can tell, the name ghe is chiefly (only?) used in the context of digital character encoding. From searching online it appears it was used in MARC encoding standards, possibly coming from ISO 5427 and/or ISO 2022, although I can’t find any sources to determine if the name appeared in code charts all the way back to 1971 or whenever.

Unicode used ge in the 1991 Unicode standard 1.0 (p 206). In the 1993 version 1.1 ge was demoted to an alternate name below ghe (p 50), and in the 1996 version 2.0 it disappeared (p 7-50).

It would be good to note in the article that ghe is restricted to the subject of computer encoding if we can source it properly, or at least note that it is used in that context. —Michael Z. 20:17, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ge (Cyrillic)


text:
David Hamilton (British politician)

Sir David Hamilton (born 24 October 1950) is a Scottish Labour Party politician who was the Member of Parliament (MP) for Midlothian from 2001 to 2015.

Background
David Hamilton was born in Dalkeith, Midlothian, and was educated at the local Dalkeith High School. In 1965, on leaving school, he worked as a miner with the National Coal Board for nineteen years, and remained a member of the National Union of Mineworkers until 1988. He was jailed for two months during the 1980s miners' strike for an alleged assault on a Dalkeith man; although bail was denied many times, he was acquitted at trial. Hamilton later claimed he had been "fitted up" by the police and security services. He worked as an employment training supervisor with Midlothian District Council for two years from 1987, and was appointed as a placement officer for the Craigmillar Festival Society in 1989, becoming the chief executive of Craigmillar Opportunities 1992–2000.

Political career
He was elected as a Midlothian Councillor in 1995, serving for six years. He was elected to the House of Commons at the 2001 general election for Midlothian following the retirement of Eric Clarke. Hamilton held the seat with a majority of 9,014 before deciding to step down before the 2015 general election. He made his maiden speech on 12 July 2001, in which he remembered one of his predecessors as the Midlothian MP and former Prime Minister, William Ewart Gladstone.

He is a member of the left-wing Socialist Campaign Group, and in 2003 became a member of both the Scottish affairs and the work and pensions select committees until the 2005 general election, since when he has been a member of the defence and European legislation committees.

He was also a member of the Public Bill Committee for the Defence Reform Act 2014.

In January 2015, he announced that he would not contest the Midlothian seat at the upcoming election. The Scottish National Party candidate Owen Thompson went on to win the Midlothian seat in 2015 with a 9,859 majority. This win, following national trends, was a huge swing of +30% to the SNP.

Hamilton was knighted in the 2016 Birthday Honours for political and parliamentary service.

Personal life
He has been married to Jean Trench Macrae since 1969 and they have two daughters. He takes a keen interest in biotechnology.

title: David Hamilton (British politician)


text:
North River (New Zealand)

The North River is a stream in the Northland Region, New Zealand. The stream flows through limestone caves before entering the Pohuenui River, which in turn flows into the Waipu River before this emerges into Bream Bay near Waipu. The river also lends itself to a settlement on the river.

title: North River (New Zealand)


text:
Tipulomorpha

The Tipulomorpha are an infraorder of Nematocera, containing the crane flies, a very large group, and allied families.

Taxonomy
The Tipulomorpha comprise five extant families.
 * Tipulomorpha
 * Tipuloidea (typical crane flies)
 * Cylindrotomidae (long-bodied crane flies)
 * Pediciidae (hairy-eyed crane flies)
 * Limoniidae (limoniid crane flies) – probably paraphyletic
 * Tipulidae (large crane flies)
 * Trichoceroidea (winter crane flies)
 * Trichoceridae

Extinct superfamilies
One recent classification based largely on fossils splits this group into a series of extinct superfamilies (below), and includes members of other infraorders, but this has not gained wide acceptance.

 * Superfamily Eopolyneuroidea
 * Family Eopolyneuridae - (Upper Triassic)
 * Family Musidoromimidae - (Upper Triassic)
 * Superfamily Tipulodictyoidea extinct
 * Family Tipulodictyidae - (Upper Triassic)
 * Superfamily Tanyderophryneoidea extinct
 * Family Tanyderophryneidae - (Middle Jurassic)

title: Tipulomorpha


text:
Cederberg

The Cederberg mountains are located near Clanwilliam, approximately 300 km north of Cape Town, South Africa at about -32.5°N, 19°W. The mountain range is named after the endangered Clanwilliam cedar (Widdringtonia wallichii), which is a tree endemic to the area. The mountains are noted for dramatic rock formations and San rock art. The Cederberg Wilderness Area is administered by CapeNature.

Cederberg is now the generally accepted spelling for the area, which combines the English (Cedarberg) and Afrikaans (Sederberg) variants.

Geography and climate
The Cederberg mountains extend about 50 km north–south by 20 km east–west. They are bordered on the west by the Sandveld, the north by the Pakhuis Mountains, the east by the Springbok Flats and the south by the Kouebokkeveld Mountains and the Skurweberge. The main access road, the N7, runs to the west of the range. The nearest towns are Citrusdal to the southwest and Clanwilliam to the north. The area is sparsely populated.

There are several notable mountains in the range, including Sneeuberg (2026 m) and Tafelberg (1969 m). Tafelberg (Afrikaans for "Table Mountain") should not be confused with the Table Mountain in Cape Town. Notable landmarks include the Maltese Cross, Wolfberg Arch and Wolfberg Cracks.

The dominating characteristic of the area is sharply defined sandstone rock formations (Table Mountain Group), often reddish in colour. This group of rocks contains bands of shale and in recent years a few important fossils have been discovered in these argillaceous layers. The fossils are of primitive fish and date back 450 million years to the Ordovician Period.

The summers are very hot and dry, while the winters are wetter and cold with typical annual rainfall in the low-lying areas of less than 700 mm. The higher peaks receive a dusting of snow in winter. Summer days are typically clear and cloudless. Due to the clear skies most of the year, it makes an excellent site for skywatching and has its own amateur observatory.

Flora and fauna
The predominant vegetation is Mediterranean fynbos in the wetter south and west, changing to semi desert scrub in the north and east. The endangered Clanwilliam cedar (Widdringtonia wallichii) of the family Cupressaceae and the snow protea (Protea cryophila) of the Proteaceae are endemic to the area, found only in more remote areas high up in the mountains.

The area's apex predators are the felids leopard (Panthera pardus) and caracal (Caracal caracal). Other mammals include the rock hyrax (Procavia capensis) or "dassie", meerkats (Suricata suricatta) and other mongooses (Herpestidae), larger antelopes (e.g. bontebok Damaliscus pygargus dorcas and gemsbok Oryx gazella), the vulnerable Cape mountain zebra (Equus zebra zebra), and chacma baboons (Papio ursinus). There are also many birds, small mammals, reptiles and insects.

Other threatened species found in the Cederberg Wilderness Area include the cyprinids Clanwilliam yellowfish (Labeobarbus capensis, vulnerable), Clanwilliam redfin (Barbus calidus, vulnerable) and sawfin (Barbus serra, endangered).

Historical

In caves and overhangs throughout the area, San rock art can be found, evidence of the earliest human inhabitants. European settlement brought forestry and some agriculture, and led to massive destruction of the local cedar trees, with thousands felled for telephone poles, furniture and housing. The European arrival also led to the elimination of the San population. In the north, the old Moravian mission station of Wupperthal still remains, the heart of a small subsistence farming community, and home to a local industry producing veldskoene, traditional soft leather shoes.

The Cederberg was possibly the southernmost battleground of the Second Boer War. A small band of Boer guerrillas penetrated into this area from the Boer republics, hundreds of kilometres to the north, hoping to stir up popular support amongst the local farmers of Dutch descent. In this they failed; the farmers may have had little sympathy for the British but they had a fair notion of who was going to win the war. It is said that the Boer commandos were confronted in the Cederberg by a lone Englishman, who ordered them to surrender. They laughed at him, because he was one and they were many and tried to reason with him, pointing out the hopelessness of his position. He refused to back down and was in the end shot dead. The place where he fell is today called Engelsmanskloof ("Englishman's ravine").

Agriculture
Arable land is limited by the altitude, the dry climate, and the rocky terrain, and few farms exist. Rooibos tea is the area's most famous export, though fruit and tobacco are also harvested on some farms. The Cederberg area includes one winery, the highest in South Africa. Around the Wupperthal area are a number of subsistence farms. Some commercial pine plantations remain around the Algeria forest station. Proteas and other fynbos plants are also grown. A number of farms have become predominantly guest farms catering for the local and international tourist market.

Tourism
As a wilderness area, the primary activity is eco-tourism, including camping, rock climbing and hiking. The main campsite, Algeria, is operated by CapeNature, while others such as Sanddrif, Driehoek, Jamaka and Kromrivier are privately operated and form the Cedarberg Conservancy, a voluntary association of landowners.

The Cederberg is renowned for its quality of rock climbing routes particularly around the Krakadouw and Tafelberg peaks. The Table Mountain Sandstone creates ideal conditions for spectacular routes. There are numerous day and overnight hikes including the popular and spectacular Wolfberg Arch, Wolfberg Cracks and the Maltese Cross.

The area is also home to an amateur astronomical observatory, which regularly hosts open evenings for the public.

There are various 4x4 routes.

A large tract of the northern Cederberg is owned by the Moravian Church. The quaint village of Wupperthal forms part of a mission station route that provides visitors with an interesting view of rural life. The village is also a well known centre for hand-made leather shoes and boots. One of the "buite stasies" (directly translated as outer stations) is Heuningvlei, a small picturesque hamlet that is in the process of developing a donkey cart trail from the summit of Pakhuis Pass to the hamlet. The project, a poverty alleviation project funded by the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, includes the creation of backpacking accommodation, herb garden and various other tourism offerings.

Scouting
The Cederberg is also the site of the Senior Scout Adventure, a 12-day event for Scouts run every second year by Scouts South Africa.

title: Cederberg


text:
Wessex culture

The Wessex culture is the predominant prehistoric culture of central and southern Britain during the early Bronze Age, originally defined by the British archaeologist Stuart Piggott in 1938.

The culture is related to the Hilversum culture of the southern Netherlands, Belgium and northern France, and linked to the Armorican Tumulus culture in northern France and the Unetice culture in central Germany. It is prototyped with the Middle Rhine group of the Bell Beaker culture and commonly subdivided in the consecutive phases of Wessex I (2000–1650 BC) and Wessex II (1650–1400). Piggott attributes the origin of this culture to an "actual ethnic movement" from Northern France. Piggott describes the culture as composed of an underlying substratum, similar to the contemporary food vessel culture found further north, and an intrusive ruling class who opened trading networks with France and central and northern Europe, and imported bronze tools and probably also artisans.

The first phase, Wessex I, is characterised by rich depositions in the graves of chieftains, including gold artifacts, and crouched inhumations under barrows (e.g. the Bush Barrow). This period is closely associated with the construction and use of the later phases of Stonehenge. The second phase, Wessex II, is characterised by less rich grave goods without gold and a resurgence of cremations, believed to be a return to the previous funerary practices of the British Neolithic. They appear to have had wide ranging trade links with continental Europe, importing amber from the Baltic, jewellery from modern day Germany, gold from Brittany as well as daggers and beads from Mycenaean Greece and vice versa. They produced characteristic pendants in the shape of halberds, with handles made from gold or amber, or a combination of these materials.

It has been speculated that river transport allowed Wessex to be the main link to the Severn estuary. The wealth from such trade probably permitted the Wessex people to construct the second and third (megalithic) phases of Stonehenge and also indicates a powerful form of social organisation.

When the term 'Wessex Culture' was first coined, investigations into British prehistory were in their infancy and the unusually rich and well documented burials in the Wessex area loomed large in literature on the Bronze Age. During the twentieth century many more Bronze Age burials were uncovered and opinions about the nature of the early-mid Bronze Age shifted considerably. Since the late 20th century it has become customary to consider 'Wessex Culture' as a limited social stratum rather than a distinct cultural grouping, specifically referring to the hundred or so particularly richly furnished graves in and around Wiltshire. The culture group, however, is named as one of the intrusive Beaker groups that appear in Ireland.

title: Wessex culture


text:
Talk:Pilatus (mountain)

There seems to be some sort of substantial military instillation on top of Pilatus, does anyone know anything about it?

 * Apparently it's part of the Swiss air defense, that article says it is run by Luftwaffe Radar Abteilung 1 (airforce radar command 1). There's a pic here. the wub "?!"  10:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

That is why the Swiss built the railway! One does not spend so much treasure on putting in such a thing for tourists on a mountain with no decent sky slopes. It is much more than just air defence, it has some large guns on it, which with pin point accuracy can hit targets in the valleys below. How do I know (too much beer and a room full of swiss ... ). All we need is a decent reliable source. -- PBS (talk) 09:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pilatus (mountain)


text:
Grand Forks Herald

The Grand Forks Herald is a daily broadsheet newspaper, established in 1879, published in Grand Forks, North Dakota, United States. It is the primary daily paper for northeast North Dakota and northwest Minnesota. Its average daily circulation is approximately 7,500, in the city of Grand Forks plus about 7,500 more to the surrounding communities. Total circulation includes digital subscribers. It has the second largest circulation in the state of North Dakota.

Grand Forks Herald Building
The Grand Forks Herald won a Pulitzer Prize for Public Service for its coverage of the 1997 flood but the prize was bittersweet, as the Herald building had not only been inundated but burned to the ground in the midst of the floodwaters. Despite losing its offices during the flood, the Herald never missed a day of publication. Temporary offices were set up at the University of North Dakota and at a nearby elementary school. Papers were distributed free of charge to flood "refugees" in neighboring towns.

Following the flood, the newspaper rebuilt its office building in downtown Grand Forks. Its distinctive features are a tall clock tower and the symbolism built into the structure, as well as parts of the old building that survived the fire. A new printing facility was also built in an industrial park in the western part of Grand Forks.

The historic building was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1982. It was a two-story Art Moderne brick commercial building built in three parts, in 1939 (designed by Theodore B. Wells), 1949 and 1959.

Corporate ownership
Knight Ridder sold the Herald to The McClatchy Company on June 27, 2006. McClatchy had already arranged the sale of the Herald to Forum Communications, owner of The Forum of Fargo-Moorhead and WDAZ-TV in Grand Forks. Today, the Herald is one of many regional newspapers published by Forum Communications. After the sale, the newspaper ended its carrier delivery service and reduced its print copy; it is only printed 2 days a week: Tuesdays and Saturdays.

Editors

 * Korrie Wenzel (Publisher/Editor)
 * Tom Miller (Sports Editor)

Writers
Joe Banish (Higher Education Reporter)
 * Marilyn Hagerty (Columnist)
 * Brad Elliott Schlossman (College Hockey Reporter)
 * Tom Miller (Sports Reporter)
 * Brad Dokken (Outdoors Reporter)
 * Pamela Knudson (Reporter)
 * Ingrid Harbo (Regional reporter)

Former personnel

 * Stuart McDonald (Editorial cartoonist, 1961-1967)
 * Robert Ridder (reporter)

title: Grand Forks Herald


text:
Culicomorpha

The Culicomorpha are an infraorder of Nematocera, including mosquitoes, black flies, and several extant and extinct families of insects. They originated 176 million years ago, in the Triassic period. There are phylogenetic patterns that are used to interpret bionomic features such as differences in the nature of blood-feeding by adult females, daytime or nighttime feeding by adult females, and occurrence of immature stages in aquatic habitats.

Most adult, females lay their eggs on bodies of water. Some are restricted to very clean waters, but others can tolerate highly polluted environments.

Many adults transmit parasites or diseases that can be debilitating or fatal to humans, such as malaria and West Nile virus. Biting midges can transmit an extensive range of pathogens of veterinary importance, including Akabane virus, bovine ephemeral fever virus, Schmallenberg virus, African horse sickness virus, epizootic haemorrhagic disease virus, and bluetongue virus.

Classification
The Culicomorpha comprises extant eight families divided into two superfamilies. It was described based on phylogenetic analyses of morphological features.

 * Superfamily Culicoidea
 * Dixidae -meniscus midges
 * Corethrellidae -frog-biting midges
 * Chaoboridae -phantom midges
 * Culicidae -mosquitoes
 * Superfamily Chironomoidea
 * Thaumaleidae -solitary midges
 * Simuliidae -black flies and buffalo gnats
 * Ceratopogonidae -biting midges
 * Chironomidae -nonbiting midges

The monophyly of Culicomorpha and Culicoidea have been confirmed in subsequent morphological and molecular studies, but several studies have found Chironomoidea to be paraphyletic. A morphological study in 2012, using characters from all life stages (egg, larva, pupae and adult), found that Chironomidae branched first and a sister relationship between Culicoidea and a clade of Simuliidae, Ceratopogonidae and Thamaleidae. A new superfamily, Simulioidea, was proposed for the latter clade and restricted Chironomoidea to Chironomidae. A phylogenomic analysis in 2018 also found a paraphyletic Chironomoidea and a close relationship between Simuliidae and Thamaleidae, but in this study Ceratopoginidae grouped with Chironomidae. The phylogenetic trees below illustrate the different arrangements.

Extinct families

 * Asiochaoboridae (Upper Jurassic)
 * Architendipedidae (Upper Triassic)
 * Protendipedidae (Middle Jurassic)
 * Mesophantasmatidae (Middle Jurassic)

title: Culicomorpha


text:
Burt Ward

Burt Ward (born Bert John Gervis Jr. ; July 6, 1945) is an American actor, animal welfare activist and businessman. He played Dick Grayson's Robin, the sidekick of Batman (played by Adam West), in the television series Batman (1966–1968), its theatrical feature film, the Saturday morning animated series The New Adventures of Batman (1977), the two-episode pilot Legends of the Superheroes (1979), the animated reunion films Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders (2016) and Batman vs. Two-Face (2017), and the live-action television event Crisis on Infinite Earths (2019).

Early life
Ward was born Bert John Gervis Jr., on July 6, 1945, in Los Angeles, California. His father, Bert Gervis Sr., was the owner of a traveling ice show called "Rhapsody On Ice". At age two, Ward was listed in the magazine Strange as It Seems as a professional ice skater. Growing up, he was an avid reader of comic books such as Superman and Superboy, and enjoyed the action-adventure show Adventures of Superman. He acquired the nickname "Sparky" in his youth, possibly from the sparks his skates kicked up during his routines or his energetic nature. He excelled in high school sport activities such as football, track, and wrestling; he was also a member of the chess club and is a practitioner of Taekwondo. After graduation, he enrolled in college while working part-time for his father's real-estate company.

Career
In October 1965, Ward auditioned for the role of Robin. West and Ward were up against Lyle Waggoner and Peter Deyell for the roles of Batman and Robin, respectively. Selected for the role of Robin, Ward thought people would find Gervis (the "G" is soft, as in "gentleman") hard to pronounce and adopted his mother's maiden name, Ward. He also changed the spelling of Bert to "Burt" to add "punch".

Unlike the series' lead, Adam West, Ward was required to perform some dangerous stunt work. He was told this was because his costume revealed more of his face, making it impractical for all of his stunt scenes to be performed by a stunt double. Later, he also discovered that he was being paid the minimum wage allowed by the Screen Actors Guild, and his stunt double was paid per stunt, so having Ward perform his own stunts was a cost-saving strategy. Ward says that he was sent to the emergency room dozens of times during his time as Robin.

At the height of the series' popularity, Ward recorded several musical tracks during sessions produced by Tom Wilson and arranged by Frank Zappa. The first two, "Boy Wonder, I Love You" (which Zappa wrote) and "Orange Colored Sky", were released as a single on November 14, 1966. Two other tracks from these sessions, "Teenage Bill of Rights" and "Autumn Love", remain unreleased.

During the first months of shooting, Ward was paid $350 per week. The series only lasted three seasons, for a total of 120 episodes; according to Ward in an interview, this was because of the high cost of production. It was still high in the ratings, but ABC was losing money. Later, NBC offered to pick it up for a fourth season, but the offer was withdrawn after learning that the sets had been destroyed. West and Ward also played Batman and Robin in the 20th Century Fox film Batman: The Movie released on July 30, 1966.

In 1969, a year after Batman's cancellation, West's mother died, bringing the two men closer together. They were reunited many times at conventions and TV reunion specials. In turn, Ward also made three guest appearances with West on separate cartoons: one was a 2002 episode of The Simpsons, later in 2010 on an episode of SpongeBob SquarePants, and in 2013 for one of the final episodes of Futurama. West and Ward remained friends until West's death on June 9, 2017, at age 88.

Post-Batman career
After the end of Batman, Ward, like Adam West, found himself hard-pressed to find other acting jobs. He did act in more than 40 made-for-television films such as Virgin High.

In 1985, DC Comics named Ward as one of the honorees in the company's 50th-anniversary publication Fifty Who Made DC Great for his work on the Batman series.

In June 1995, Ward wrote a tell-all autobiography called Boy Wonder: My Life in Tights, which described his time playing Robin.

Ward appeared in numerous reunions with co-star Adam West. The most memorable included reprising their roles as the Dynamic Duo on a short-lived animated series called The New Adventures of Batman, as well as The Batman/Tarzan Adventure Hour and Tarzan and the Super 7. In addition, they reappeared as the Dynamic Duo for Legends of the Superheroes. West and Ward finally reunited in the 2003 television movie, Return to the Batcave: The Misadventures of Adam and Burt.

During a Pro Wrestling Unplugged angle with wrestler Johnny Kashmere, Ward "knighted" Kashmere as the "New Batman". Ward has appeared on the show several times, walking out to the theme music from the 1960s Batman.

In 2001, Ward established the now-closed Boy Wonder Visual Effects, Inc.

In 2012, Bluewater comics was planning to issue a four-issue comic miniseries in homage to Burt Ward playing Robin, called Burt Ward, Boy Wonder, but it was apparently canceled. It starred Burt Ward and his crimefighting rescue dogs Gentle and Giant fighting crime. Part of the first issue was released on Free Comic Book Day 2012.

Beginning in late 2017, Ward is seen promoting the Batman television series and other classic television series on the MeTV television network.

In 2016 and 2017 respectively, West and Ward reunited a final time, to reprise the Dynamic Duo in the animated movies Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders and Batman vs. Two-Face, the latter being released after West's death.

On January 9, 2020, Ward received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Charity work
In 1994, Ward and his wife, Tracy Posner Ward, founded a charitable organization called Gentle Giants Rescue and Adoptions, Inc., which rescues giant-breed dogs such as Great Danes and some smaller-breed dogs. Their work with the organization has been featured in such outlets as People magazine, ASPCA Animal Watch, Hard Copy, Inside Edition, and Entertainment Tonight. Ward was also seen in an episode of Animal Planet's Adoption Tales.

Business activity
Burt has also created a company, Gentle Giants, which sells dog and cat food.

Personal life
Ward's first wife was Bonney Lindsey, daughter of conductor Mort Lindsey. Ward and Lindsey married on July 19, 1965, and divorced in 1967. They had one daughter in 1966. From 1967 to 1969, he was married to actress Kathy Kersh, whom he met when she appeared as a guest villainess on the Batman television series. He was married to model Mariana Torchia from 1985 to 1989. Since 1990, Ward has been married to Tracy Posner. Their daughter was born on February 16, 1991.

title: Burt Ward


text:
Bibionomorpha

The Bibionomorpha are an infraorder of the suborder Nematocera. One of its constituent families, the Anisopodidae, is the presumed sister taxon to the entire suborder Brachycera. Several of the remaining families in the infraorder (those shown without common names) are former subfamilies of the Mycetophilidae, which has been recently subdivided. The family Axymyiidae has recently been removed from the Bibionomorpha to its own infraorder Axymyiomorpha.

Most representatives of the Bibionomorpha are saprophages or fungivores as larvae with the Cecidomyiidae being predominantly gall-formers. Some sciarids are common indoor pests, developing large populations in potting soil that has become moldy from overwatering. The larvae of the Bibionidae sometimes migrate in large, snake-like masses to minimize dehydration while seeking a new feeding site.

Superfamilies and families

 * Superfamily Anisopodoidea Knab, 1912 (Triassic - Recent)
 * Anisopodidae (syn †Eopleciidae) - wood gnats
 * †Antefungivoridae Rohdendorf, 1938 (syn Pleciomimidae, Sinemediidae)
 * †Crosaphididae Kovalev, 1983 (Triassic-Jurassic)
 * †Pleciofungivoridae Rohdendorf, 1946 (syn Fungivoritidae) (Upper Triassic - Middle Jurassic)
 * †Protorhyphidae Handlirsch, 1906 (Upper Triassic)
 * †Siberhyphidae Kovalev, 1985 (Jurassic)
 * Superfamily Bibionoidea Fleming, 1821 (Cretaceous - Recent)
 * Bibionidae (syn †Cascopleciidae) - march flies and lovebugs
 * Hesperinidae Walker, 1848
 * Superfamily Mycetobioidea Winnertz, 1863
 * Mycetobiidae Winnertz, 1863
 * Superfamily †Pachyneuroidea Rohdendorf, 1946
 * †Procramptonomyiidae Kovalev, 1985
 * Superfamily Scatopsoidea Newman, 1834
 * Canthyloscelidae Shannon, 1927
 * †Protoscatopsidae Rohdendorf, 1946 (Middle Jurassic)
 * Scatopsidae Newman, 1834
 * Valeseguyidae Amorim & Tozoni, 1994
 * Superfamily Sciaroidea Billberg, 1820
 * †Archizelmiridae Rohdendorf, 1962 (Middle Jurassic)
 * Bolitophilidae Winnertz, 1863
 * Cecidomyiidae Newman, 1834 - gall gnats
 * Diadocidiidae Winnertz, 1863
 * Ditomyiidae Edwards, 1921
 * Keroplatidae Rondani, 1856 (incl. Lygistorrhinidae Edwards, 1925)
 * Mycetophilidae Newman, 1834 - fungus gnats
 * †Paraxymyiidae Rohdendorf, 1946 (Middle Jurassic)
 * Rangomaramidae Jaschhof & Didham, 2002
 * Sciaridae Billberg, 1820 - dark winged fungus gnats
 * Superfamily incertae sedis
 * †Heterorhyphidae Ansorge & Krzemiński, 1995
 * Pachyneuridae
 * †Protobibionidae extinct (Middle Jurassic)
 * †Protopleciidae (syn Palaeopleciidae, Pleciodictyidae, Protoligoneuridae) (Late Triassic - Jurassic)
 * †Tipulopleciidae extinct (Middle Jurassic)

title: Bibionomorpha