text:
Ústí nad Labem Region

Ústí nad Labem Region or Ústecký Region (Ústecký kraj) is an administrative unit (kraj) of the Czech Republic, located in the north-western part of the historical land of Bohemia, and named after the capital, Ústí nad Labem. It covers the majority of the former North Bohemia province (Severočeský kraj) and is part of the broader area of North Bohemia.

The region borders the regions of Liberec (east), Central Bohemia (south), Plzeň (southwest), Karlovy Vary (west) and the German region of Saxony to the north.

The Ústí nad Labem Region comprises a range of very different types of landscape. Between the high escarpment of the Ore Mountains range and the Bohemian Central Uplands with many volcanic hills, there are vast areas devastated by surface coal mining (the Most Basin), partly being recultivated into an artificial landscape with ponds, plains and groves. The Elbe river runs through the Central Uplands in a winding gorge of the Porta Bohemica. The southern part of the region, Polabí, is flat and fertile, while in the northeast are the sandstone formations of Bohemian Switzerland, including the monumental Pravčická brána, a natural sandstone arch.

The geographical location of the area, between Prague and Germany, has been a significant factor in the region's development.

Administrative divisions
The Ústí nad Labem Region is divided into 7 districts:

The districts are further subdivided into 16 administrative district of municipalities with extended competence.

Population
, the region had 820,789 inhabitants, the fifth most populous in the Czech Republic. The population density is higher than the national average, and the region is the fourth most densely populated in the country. The most densely populated areas of the region are the areas on the brown coal basin while areas with a lower population density are the Ore Mountains and the Louny District and Litoměřice District, which predominantly contain smaller country settlements. The largest municipality is Ústí nad Labem, the region's seat, with 92,952 inhabitants.

The Ústí nad Labem region has the third youngest population; the average age is 42.0 years. The Ústí nad Labem Region ranks second-highest in the Czech Republic in the number of live births per 1,000 inhabitants, alongside the Liberec Region (11.5), but also has one of the highest mortality rates (10.6 deaths per 1,000 inhabitants). The Ústí nad Labem Region ranks second nationally in the number of divorces per 1,000 inhabitants (3.4) and first in the number of abortions per 100 live births (47.5).

The region has 46 cities and towns, in which 80.7% of its inhabitants reside, and 354 villages. 54% of the region's villages have a population greater than 500, but only 5.8% of the region's inhabitants live there.

The composition of the population according to nationality is:
 * Czech: 92.12%
 * Slovak: 2.71%
 * German: 1.25%
 * Romani: 0.23%
 * Polish: 0.2%
 * Moravian: 0.13%
 * Other: 3.45%

Cities and towns
The table shows cities and towns in the region that had more than 10,000 inhabitants (as of 1 January 2024). The five cities in the region belongs to the Ústí nad Labem-Chomutov agglomeration.

Other significant towns and villages of the Ústí nad Labem Region
 * Česká Kamenice;
 * Lovosice;
 * Račice, international rowing and flatwater canoeing venue;
 * Srbská Kamenice, site of JAT Yugoslav Flight 364 crash in 1972;
 * Štětí;
 * Terezín, a former military fortress.

Geography
The total area of the region is 5,335 km2, 6.8% of the territory of the Czech Republic. The region's geography is very diverse.

The area along the German borders is dominated by the Ore Mountains, the Elbe Sandstone Mountains and the Lusatian Mountains. The Ore Mountains are very old and formed of volcanic rocks or Palaeozoic schist.

In contrast, the south-eastern part of the region is formed by the plains that originate from Mesozoic era (Czech Cretaceous Formation, Česká křídová tabule). The Bohemian Central Uplands and Říp Mountain (which is, according to legend, associated with the earliest Czech ancestors arriving in Bohemia) are both located in this area. The Bohemian Central Uplands originated from volcanic activity in the Tertiary.

The highest point of the region (1225 m) lies on the hillside of Klínovec, which is the highest peak of the Ore Mountains. However, the top of the mountain is located in the territory of the Karlovy Vary Region. Not taking into account the bottoms of surface mines, the lowest point of the region, and the whole country, is the surface of the Elbe River at Hřensko, at 115 metres above sea level.

The Elbe River is the largest watercourse in the region. Other main rivers in the region include Ohře, Bílina, Ploučnice and Kamenice, all tributaries of the Elbe. The largest water area is the Nechranice reservoir built on the Ohře River in the western part of the region. The region also contains a number of mineral and thermal springs.

Economy
In 2010, the region's gross domestic product accounted for 6.6% of the national GDP. The regional GDP per capita was 83.4% of the national average. The regional employment is approximately 362,000 people. In 2013, the average wage in the region was CZK 22,172 (EUR 870). The unemployment rate was 11%.

The Ústecký Region is one of the most industrialized areas in Central Europe. The economy used to be based on metallurgy and the chemical industry, though is now more diverse. The region's traditional branches of industry are chemicals and petrochemicals, engineering and thermal energy. Historically, the economic importance of the Ústí nad Labem Region lay in its reserves of raw materials, especially deposits of brown coal, quality glass and foundry sands and building stone. The brown coal basin stretches under the hillsides of the Ore Mountains from Ústí nad Labem to Kadaň.

The region is part of the Black Triangle, an area of heavily industrialization and environmental damage on the three-way border of Poland, Germany, and the Czech Republic.

The region contains a number of distinct economic regions. An area with highly developed industrial production is concentrated in the foothills of the Ore Mountains (the Chomutov, Most, and Teplice Districts, and part of the Ústí nad Labem District). Important economic sectors include the energy industry, coal mining, mechanical engineering, and chemical and glass industry. The area around Litoměřice and Louny is known for the production of hops and vegetables. The areas along the Elbe River and Ohře River are well-known fruit growing regions and are sometimes referred to as the Garden of Bohemia. Recently, the area around Most has become known as a wine-growing region, in which wine is grown mainly on lands that were reclaimed after brown coal mining. The sparsely-populated area of the Ore Mountains has limited economic activities. Similarly, the area of Děčín is neither a heavy industrial nor an agricultural area.

In recent years the region has been experiencing an influx of foreign investment in various sectors, including the automotive, chemical, engineering, electrical engineering and food industries. The focus is shifting towards light industry and is becoming more environmentally friendly.

Among the largest employers of the region are coal-mining companies Mostecká uhelná společnost and Severočeské doly, Chemopetrol (a petrochemical company), and Krajská zdravotní, a.s. (a healthcare provider).

Agricultural land covers nearly 52% of the region’s area, forests 30% and water areas 2%. Agricultural production is focused on hops, fruits and vegetables.

Transportation
Ústí nad Labem Region is crossed by railway lines connecting Berlin via Prague to Vienna or Budapest, as well as the Elbe water way. The region is also crossed by the D8 motorway, which connects Prague with the German border, and the I/13, connecting Karlovy Vary with Chomutov, Most, Teplice, Ústí nad Labem, Děčín and Liberec.

Places of interest

 * Nunnery in Doksany
 * Duchcov Chateau
 * Hněvín Castle
 * Pravčická brána in Bohemian Switzerland National Park
 * Roudnice nad Labem
 * Říp Mountain
 * Terezín and Theresienstadt concentration camp

title: Ústí nad Labem Region


text:
The Commercial Appeal

The Commercial Appeal (also known as the Memphis Commercial Appeal) is a daily newspaper of Memphis, Tennessee, and its surrounding metropolitan area. It is owned by the Gannett Company; its former owner, the E. W. Scripps Company, also owned the former afternoon paper, the Memphis Press-Scimitar, which it folded in 1983. The 2016 purchase by Gannett of Journal Media Group (Scripps' direct successor) effectively gave it control of the two major papers in western and central Tennessee, uniting the Commercial Appeal with Nashville's The Tennessean.

The Commercial Appeal is a seven-day morning paper. It is distributed primarily in Greater Memphis, including Shelby, Fayette, and Tipton counties in Tennessee; DeSoto, Tate, and Tunica counties in Mississippi; and in Crittenden County in Arkansas. These are the contiguous counties to the city of Memphis.

The Commercial Appeal won the 1923 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service for its opposition of the Ku Klux Klan's operations in the region. In 1994, the newspaper won a Pulitzer Prize for Editorial Cartooning by Michael Ramirez.

History
The paper's name comes from a 19th-century merger between two predecessors, the Memphis Commercial and the Appeal.

The Appeal
The Commercial Appeal traces its heritage to the 1839 publication, The Western World & Memphis Banner of the Constitution. Bought by Col. Henry Van Pelt in 1840, it was renamed The Memphis Appeal. During the American Civil War the Appeal was one of the major newspapers serving the Southern cause. On June 6, 1862, the presses and plates were loaded into a boxcar and published from Grenada, Mississippi. The Appeal later journeyed on to Jackson, Mississippi, Meridian, Mississippi, Atlanta, Georgia, Montgomery, Alabama and finally Columbus, Georgia, where the plates were destroyed on April 16, 1865, temporarily halting publication days before the Confederate surrender. The press was hidden and saved, and publication resumed in Memphis, using it, on November 5, 1865.

History
Another early paper, The Avalanche, was incorporated in 1894, publishing as The Appeal-Avalanche until an 1894 merger created The Commercial Appeal. The name is properly The Commercial Appeal and not the Memphis Commercial Appeal as it is often called, although the predecessor Appeal was formally the Memphis Daily Appeal. From the late 19th century through the first quarter of the 20th century, The Commercial Appeal was led by editor C. P. J. Mooney, "tireless, combative and a devoutly Catholic teetotaler".

In 1932, the newspaper moved into a disused Ford Motor Company assembly plant at 495 Union Avenue, where it stayed until 1977, when a new building was completed adjacent.

In 1936, The Commercial Appeal was purchased by the Scripps Howard newspaper chain,. Its sister afternoon paper, the Press-Scimitar, was discontinued in 1983.

The Commercial Appeal was folded into the Journal Media Group by successor E. W. Scripps Company in 2015 after Scripps purchased Milwaukee's Journal Communications and chose to spin off its newspaper assets to expand its broadcasting operations. Gannett then purchased Journal Media Group several months later, taking control of the Commercial Appeal in April 2016. Gannett then closed the Commercial Appeal's Memphis printing plant after taking control, laying off 19 full-time employees, with the paper then printed at Gannett's existing newspaper in nearby Jackson, the Sun. The company's west Tennessee printing operations then were consolidated out-of-state in February 2021, when the plant for Jackson, Mississippi's The Clarion-Ledger began to print the Commercial Appeal and Sun.

Sale of real estate assets
In April 2018, The Commercial Appeal sold its longtime offices and plant at 495 Union Avenue in Memphis for $3.8 million, indicating plans to move to another Memphis site. At the time of sale, the property, comprised a 125,000-square-foot office building, a 150,000-square-foot printing and production plant, and adjacent real estate. A New York-based real estate company, Twenty Lake Holdings LLC, bought the 6.5 acres with the five-story office building and attached printing/production building. Twenty Lake Holdings is a division of a hedge fund that has been accused of a "mercenary strategy" of buying newspapers, slashing jobs, and selling the buildings and other assets.

Columnists
The paper in the 1940s had a well known columnist named Paul Flowers who wrote "The Greenhouse" column.

Lydel Sims was a columnist for the Commercial Appeal from 1949 until his death in 1995.

Civil rights
The Commercial Appeal has had a mixed record on civil rights. In 1868, it published an article by former confederate general Albert Pike that was critical of the methods of the Ku Klux Klan, but lauded their aims of white supremacy. In 1917, the paper published the scheduled time and place for the upcoming Lynching of Ell Persons.

Despite its Confederate background the paper won a Pulitzer Prize in 1923 for its coverage and editorial opposition to the resurgent Ku Klux Klan.

From 1916 to 1968, the paper published a cartoon called Hambone's Meditations. The cartoon featured a black man, Hambone, that many African Americans came to regard as a racist caricature.

During the Civil Rights Movement, the paper generally avoided coverage of the topic. It did take a stance against pro-segregation rioters during the Ole Miss riot of 1962. However, its owner, Scripps-Howard, exerted a generally conservative and anti-union influence.

The paper opposed the Memphis sanitation strike, portraying both labor organizers and Martin Luther King Jr. as outside meddlers.

During the late 1960s, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) leaked "information of a derogatory nature regarding the Invaders and other black nationalist militants," some of which may have been fabricated by the FBI itself, to a Commercial Appeal reporter who then used that information to write articles critical of the Invaders. This manipulation of The Commercial Appeal was part of the FBI's counterintelligence program (COINTELPRO) against black nationalists in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Monetization controversy
In the fall of 2007, the Appeal attempted to launch a native advertising effort that would have linked specific stories to specific advertisers who paid for what would be considered an advertorial. The proposal was greeted by outrage among media analysts, so the authors of the so-called "monetization memo"—the Appeal's editor and its sales manager—quietly withdrew the effort.

Guns database
At the end of 2008, The Commercial Appeal posted a controversial database listing Tennessee residents with permits to carry handguns. The database is a public record in Tennessee but had not been posted online. After a permit-to-carry holder shot and killed a man in Memphis for parking too close to his SUV and vandalizing it, the gun database suddenly came to the attention of pro-gun groups, including the NRA and the Tennessee Firearms Association. Legislators who supported gun groups quickly drafted a bill to close the permit-to-carry database. The Tennessee Coalition for Open Government lobbied to keep the database public and the bill to close the database did not pass in the 2009 legislative session.

In a February 15, 2009 editorial, the newspaper defended publication of the handgun permit list and suggested it could protect permit holders by steering criminals away from armed households. An independent study released in 2011 found "[Memphis] ZIP Codes with the highest concentration of permits experienced roughly 1.7 fewer burglaries per week/per ZIP Code in the 15 weeks following the publicization of the database, and those with the lowest concentration experienced on average 1.5 more burglaries."

The Commercial Appeal website for the database currently notes that on April 25, 2013, a law was signed that classified information contained in handgun carry permit applications as "confidential" available only to the court or to law enforcement. The State Attorney General did not restrict publication of existing copies of the database; the Commercial Appeal has indicated that it will maintain its April 19, 2013 updated database "until the newspaper determines the information is too outdated and no longer serves the public's interests."

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: The Commercial Appeal


text:
Talk:Native Hawaiians

Chamorro as related
To the anon editor: If we must list related people there must be some logic to it. Adding the Chamorro people - just one people out of the many Micronesian peoples who are related, albeit distantly, to Polynesians and therefore to Hawaiians, is not justifiable. Why single out the Chamorro for special mention? Kahuroa (talk) 10:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Religion statistics?
Do any statistics exist on the percent of Native Hawaiians in each religious category? If so, they should be put into the Demographics section. Duoduoduo (talk) 14:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Yeah it only list their religion as Roman Catholic and Protestant. I highly doubt there are any other Hawaiians of other denomination and religion. Especially some Hawaiians who still believe or reverted to believing in the old Hawaiian polytheistic religion.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:53, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Pili
There is a reference to King Kalakaua's "Legends and Myths of Hawai'i" about Pa'ao. That work never mentions that Pa'ao was from Samoa and Pili (Piri in Tahitian) is also a well known chief from Ra'iatea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.108.192.13 (talk) 04:19, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Capitalization of N/native
With at least one exception, this article does not capitalize the "n" in "N/native Hawaiian" (except of course in the name of an organization or at the start of a sentence). Maybe I missed it, but I can't find any previous discussion of this. In standard English orthography, names of ethnic groups are fully capitalized: Italian American, Inuit, American Indian, Native Hawaiian, etc. Without the capital N, it conventionally means someone who was born in a place: native South Carolinian, etc. I think it should be changed everywhere in the article to N. I'll leave it to you guys who frequent this page to consider this. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Infobox or notable Native Hawaiians
Isn't the number of figures in the infobox a bit excessive? Also there are too many royals. It downplays the role other non-royal Hawaiians played in history merely to promote people were royals but did very little. Many of the monarchs and kuhina nui (except Keoni Ana not included) shown here impact Hawaiian history in their own ways but it doesn't mean every one of them should be included. I don't think John Papa Īī should be included since compare to Malo and Kamakau his fame is minimal. And Henry Opukahaia, more notable than many here is not even included. Nor is Jonah Kūhiō Kalanianaʻole.

I think the list should balance between royal and non-royal, different areas of fame, and having equal distributions throughout history with the goal number of twelve at most (Native Americans in the United States has twelve too):
 * Kamehameha I (a powerful figure, politics/war)
 * Liliuokalani (iconic monarch/last queen/songwriter and composer)
 * David Malo or Samuel Kamakau, not both (historian and early Hawaiian literary figure); I vote Malo
 * Joseph Nawahi (non-royal Hawaiian politician with impact on history)
 * Henry Opukahaia (iconic figure for Hawaii's Christian history)
 * This is a toss-up
 * Either Jonah Kūhiō Kalanianaʻole (20th century political figure connected with past royal line) or someone else from the Territorial period would work too....or
 * Kalakaua (monarch who traveled around world and started the Hawaiian renaissance)...Or we can keep Kuhio and sacrifice one of the following
 * Duke Kahanamoku (iconic sportsman, ambassador of Aloha, no need to even argue)
 * Eddie Aikau (iconic sportsman)
 * Israel Kamakawiwoʻole (iconic musician, no need to argue)
 * One modern celebrity: maybe Jason Scott Lee or Nicole Scherzinger
 * Daniel Akaka, modern politicians
 * James Aiona, modern politicians....If we have an iconic Hawaiian sovereignty activist like Mililani Trask it could replace James Aiona.

--KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:00, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Any possible changes to the infobox can be done on Template:Native Hawaiians infobox. Please do discuss any changes to the images though.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:34, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I have removed Henry Opukahaia. Only notability is being considered the first Christian Hawaiian which is not sourced strong enough at the moment to pass Wikipedia notability in my opinion. Agree that royals had too much of a presence and removed Kalakaua as I think only the first and last ruler should be represented. Added other figures but only feel strongly that Nona Beamer remain as her notability was very well established and there are many sources on her not even used in the article we have.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

 * I readded Kalakaua because not only was he a royal and a monarch he was central figure to the first Hawaiian Renaissance in the 1880s and the revival of hula in Hawaiian culture. Henry Opukahaia is more notable than Kalaimanokahoʻowaha because his death and experience in New England catalyzed the first group of American missionaries to come to the Hawaiian Islands. The money from his biography and portraits of his Hawaiian classmates help fund the first mission. He was the only figure of Hawaiian religious significance that came to mind when I created the panel. Both Malo and Kamakau were native scholars and cultural historians, so having both made no sense. I left Malo because his works covered commoners and chiefs alike in Hawaiian culture and history while Kamakau was more invested in the history and genealogy of the chiefs; Malo was also one of the first Hawaiians educated under the Western education system at Lahainaluna ten years before Kamakau. I added Nawahi instead of reinstating Opukahaia which adds a famous non-royal political figure from the period of the Kingdom. Nawahi was a famous legislator, political minister, artist, lawyer newspaper publisher and founder and president of Hui Aloha Aina Hawaiian Patriotic League. The limits of these list on these articles lay in the fact that we can't use figures who don't have public domain images. Winona Beamer doesn't have a public domain image. Her fair use image will be remove in the near future by an administrator. I believe that figures like Iolani Luahine and Mary Kawena Pukui belongs here more but they also have no public domain images. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

 * I completely disagree with the Henry Opukahaia obviously but still maintain that Kanaina is notable enough and, infact, vital to this list as the first Hawaiian to greet Cook and then participated in his death. Nawahi is an acceptable subject for the montage as is Beamer and only needs a rationale for use on this page. We may use non free images in infoboxes to illustrate the subject.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As far as the Beamer image goes, I have no idea why you uploaded it if you feel it shouldn't be allowed. But it is acceptable use. An admin will not take action as even fair use image require review and discussion and in this case the subject is no longer living and in her lifetime, free images were unlikely due to her rare public appearances due to advanced age. In her younger days her images were with other notable family or in publications and always held a copyright.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Limit of Royals in infobox
There is no consensus that I can find to limit the royals in the info box. Sorry, but the idea of such a limitation when there is something like 1500 years of history where the only notable figures are basically the alii. Also, the infobox seems to give undue weight to the Kalakaua Dynasty which lasted less than twenty years compared to nearly 80 years of the Kamehamehas, so I am removing Liliuokalani. As the last monarch that is certainly note worthy but inclusion over, say Kamehameha III? He wrote the first constitution, created the Great Mahele and had the longest reign of any Hawaiian Monarch.--Mark Miller (talk) 10:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Maybe a gallery elsewhere in the article is in order.
 * Liliuokalani looms large, not just because of being Queen & her futile attempts to restore the monarchy, but because of her contribution to Hawaiian music. Surely the creator of Aloha ʻOe deserves a place at the table ...
 * Peaceray (talk) 20:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

 * You're preaching to the choir. My point is...what table are we setting? Writing a song is hardly more notable than giving away trillions of dollars worth of land. Being the last is notable but why claim such notability is greater just for the lack of success? This is the slippery slope we create by illustrating the info box in this manner. I would much prefer random anonymous images in the info box for Native Hawaiian but if we take this route what we need is an expanded article that touches on these subjects but doesn't attempt to place one over the other like a contest.--Mark Miller (talk) 09:16, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I mentioned Liliʻuokalani's Aloha ʻOe because it is the most famous of the body of her work. Search results for Liliʻuokalani for sheet music at WorldCat.org shows that she wrote a lot of other songs once you click past the first page where Aloha ʻOe dominated. I think she is clearly the most important Native Hawaiʻian composer of the 19th century.
 * I would argue for swapping out Kalākaua's picture for Liliʻuokalani for several reasons besides her musical importance:
 * In any conversation involving the Monarchy that I had with anyone with Native Hawaiʻian ancestory, it was hands down that Liliʻuokalani was the most commonly mentioned. Yes, Kalākaua revived the Hula, had the Bayonet Constitution, & installed electricity & telephone in ʻIolani Palace before the White House, but the overthrow of Liliʻuokalani has had a profound and lasting effect on Hawaiʻi's politics and history and set a pattern of how Republican and Democratic administrations differ in handling the overthrow of other countries' governments. (On this later point, see )
 * Liliuokalani is a C-class article, has been featured 5 times on the Main page in the On this day... section, & is of interest to 5 WikiProjects, whereas Kalākaua is a Start-class article & of interest to 2 WikiProjects. Let's link to the more complete, longer, & better article.
 * Better gender balance. Liliʻuokalani was only Queen Regent of Hawaiʻi, & currently only 2 of the dozen pictures in the infobox are of women.
 * Finally, an altnernate approach might be to have a template that displays different images on different page views. One such template is used in the Did you know... section on the Main page. It's a bit tricky to use, but could provide a solution of shoe-horning all the desireable images into the infobox without eliminating some of the other worthy candidates.
 * Peaceray (talk) 17:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I don't know that I could argue against most of that. However, I would also mention that a conversation with any Native Hawaiian about the history of Hawaiian music and hula would probably also note that Liliuokalani is not even the most notable Hawaiian composer of her time, let alone the overall history of the Native Hawaiian people. That honor seems to be attributed to Helen Desha Beamer. In fact, the Beamer Family has two composers in the Hall of Fame. A look at the Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame shows that Mahi Beamer and Helen Beamer were both inducted, while Liliuokalani has yet to be. No disrespect to Her Late Majesty, Queen Liliuokalani. But then, Winona Beamer is already in the montage and I would argue has become very much one of the most notable Native Hawaiians in contemporary history and is a good representation of the entire Beamer family, but we could easily replace her with Helen or Mahi and still be as accurate with notability. The problem is...we can only show images and, well images only go back as far as 1779. Liloa and Umi-a-Liloa could well be represented in an image that isn't a portrait, such as one of the emblems of the aliI. So, I like the entire idea of some sort of rotating image. Good idea and I support it.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:07, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

 * That's a strong baseless claim that Liliuokalani was less important than Helen Desha Beamer in the scheme of Hawaiian music. Liliuokalani was experted in ancient meles writing the Kumulipo and embued traditional Hawaiian lyrics with Western melodies creating many songs still popular to this day. Understand in the Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame, Liliuokalani and her three siblings are considered the four Patrons (Na Lani Eha), the foundational supporters of Hawaiian music and hula in the 19th-century during the first Hawaiian renaissance of Kalakaua's reign.
 * "Na Lani Eha, the Patrons of Hawaiian culture, were not only giants in the field of Hawaiian music but form the very cornerstones of subsequent Hawaiian culture and arts, and as such, 'preside' over the greats of Hawaiian music honored herein. They have their own prominant place in the 1995 koa traveling exhibit and share space with the first ten Hall of Fame honorees. Click on the links below to access the biographies and pictures of the Royal Four"
 * --KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:25, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge with US federal recognition of a Native Hawaiian nation
I don't see why we need a separate article for this. The other article is a stub, and everything it describes seems to concern Native Hawaiians. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 07:47, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Didn't see this until now but no. I support inclusion here in its own section but just because it pertains to Native Hawaiians does not mean it is not a notable enough subject for a stand alone article or that it must be segregated to this article. The subject does indeed pertain to more than just Native Hawaiians. Please begin a formal AFD if you feel the article does not comply with notability guidelines for a stand alone article.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:19, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

 * I don't intend to go to AfD; withdrawing merge proposal because the article has been expanded. Thank you ! Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 08:11, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Thank you . I appreciate your patrolling of new articles. In the future I will remember to try and publish the articles in a more fully formed fashion.--Mark Miller (talk) 16:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Reorganization Act of 2009
first, i made basic editing corrections on this page without realizing that it has gone through some past issues with edits/reverts/reverts/reverts, etc. sorry about that. i try not to just go into "editor" mode on articles with that type of history. i'm fairly certain i didn't make any changes that are "controversial," but i'm just noting it here, in case someone wants to look closely. the "quick summary" i typed in was quite accurate.

however, i DID have a question on this section (as titled here). mainly, there's the section title, then the section begins with something in early 2000s, talks rather extensively about that bill, then goes to a poll done in 2003, and THEN a poll done in 2009 about who does and does not support the "Native Hawaiian Reorganization Act of 2009." (as opposed to the "Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act of 2009"??) but it doesn't say what HAPPENED to the bill? did it pass? if so, when? if so, what was the vote? if so, what has happened since then, i.e., has there been any "higher taxes to cover any loss in tax revenues," as 3/4 of people were worried about??Colbey84 (talk) 09:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Native Hawaiians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20101223043001/http://grassrootinstitute.org/system/attachments/32/FINAL_topline_Grassroot_Institute_of_Hawaii_11-30-2.pdf to http://grassrootinstitute.org/system/attachments/32/FINAL_topline_Grassroot_Institute_of_Hawaii_11-30-2.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 12:06, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I've checked all modified links and set true. --ThT (talk) 09:31, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Emigration
The section Emigration was deleted without discussing a possible improvement or extension of examples. Because emigration is an important fact in the intercultural relations between Hawaiʻi and other parts of the world it should be mentioned in the article. --ThT (talk) 15:39, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Native Hawaiians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120201182814/http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0056/tab26.pdf to http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0056/tab26.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120516235320/http://www.census.gov/newsroom/minority_links/hawaiian.html to http://www.census.gov/newsroom/minority_links/hawaiian.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:16, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've checked all modified links and set true. --ThT (talk) 09:31, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Native Hawaiians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130524025104/http://www.census.gov/popest/data/state/asrh/2009/tables/SC-EST2009-03-15.xls to https://www.census.gov/popest/data/state/asrh/2009/tables/SC-EST2009-03-15.xls
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150501082145/http://kenconklin.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Are_kanaka_maoli_indigenous_to_Hawai%27i%3F to http://kenconklin.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Are_kanaka_maoli_indigenous_to_Hawai%27i%3F
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080916044123/http://www.hawaiireef.noaa.gov/heritage/welcome.html to http://hawaiireef.noaa.gov/heritage/welcome.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:30, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I've checked all modified links and set true. --ThT (talk) 09:31, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

"Legends"
"Evidence for a Tahitian conquest of the islands include the legends of Hawaiʻiloa and the navigator-priest Paʻao . . . ."

Isn't a "legend" the antithesis of "evidence"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mt98765 (talk • contribs) 02:28, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Contradictory figures
The article says there are 527,000, but then in the next paragraph it says there are only 371,000 people who are wholly or partly Native Hawaiian, of which 156,000 are exclusively Native Hawaiian. Adding those figures together gives 527,000, but you can't add them because one is included in the other. I don't know which is right. Richard75 (talk) 11:34, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

 * I checked the citation. Page 15 says "There were 156,000 people who reported Native Hawaiian with no additional detailed NHPI group or race group and an additional 371,000 people who reported Native Hawaiian in combination with one or more other races and/or detailed NHPI groups (see Table 5). Thus, a total of 527,000 people reported Native Hawaiian alone or in any combination." I've corrected the article to say this. Richard75 (talk) 11:48, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Major Additions and Changes Necessary For Accuracy and Representation
This article is seemingly lacking in indigenous points of view especially about the dispossession of land by agri-business (Dole pineapple company) as well as the mass incarceration of Native Hawai'ians. Moreover, this article fails to mention any of the current anti-colonial protests of the past and present, including the most recent protest to prevent the construction of a telescope and observatory on a sacred site of Native people. There needs to be more to address both the military-industrial complex and prison industrial complex that has come to define life for many Native Hawai'ians as well as shifting the narrative to that of the Native Hawai'ians who live there. Ultimately the article seems to lack any meaningful organizational structure that makes it both logical and inviting, which is a disadvantage to the historically underrepresented NAtive Hawai'ians whose struggle and culture is often erased and/or misunderstood. Finally, more images both historic and contemporary are needed to give context to this article in order to highlight both the current existence and current struggle of Native Hawai'ians whose existence and overall survival depend on the continuation of their culture. Finally, I hope that this article can delete the comments about the Hula which seem to have a connotation of pro-assimilation which violated Wikipedia guidelines on impartiality.

Caquaile (talk) 16:23, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Chandler

 * @Caquaile, Thank you for improving this article. It did seem to miss out on a lot of historical events, most notably the 1893 overthrow of the former Hawaiian monarchy. By the way, you mentioned that comments about Hula had a pro-assimilationist attitude. Could you specify what you meant by that and which lines you were referring to? Mahalo. — Coastaline (talk) 04:43, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Peer review
Hi! I think your article was very well written with a good amount of information on your topic. However, I do think that your lead section could be more robust with slightly more information added as well as a bit more information on the shorter sections within the articles as well - or even maybe joining it to a different section. Also, adding some more pictures would help as well! But, overall I don't see any other issues, a pretty good article overall! Emilyc12345678 (talk) 23:02, 17 October 2020 (UTC)emily

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Caquaile. Peer reviewers: Don'tTakeYourselfTooSeriously, Kdotlamar39, Emilyc12345678.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hawaii Maoli
I never heard of Hawaiʻi Maoli. Any sources as to where this is now commonly used? Not in my decades living have I heard of such a term, and we know it does not exist in any of the Hawaiian newspapers which I'm sure someone has been at least looking through. 99.23.241.79 (talk) 02:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

 * I have also never heard of “Hawaiʻi Maoli”, not as a Hawaiian myself nor by cultural practictioners nor in academic circles. It is grammatically correct, but we have other autonyms for ourselves that are consistently used and recognized words for our identity. These being: kānaka maoli and kānaka ʻōiwi; these terms are plural. Anhedonia2 (talk) 04:18, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

The term Native Hawaiian is Questionable
Hawaiians have not lived in Hawaii remotely long enough to be considered native or indigenous. They are not an Aboriginal people that have resided in Hawaii long enough to have diverged into a unique ethnolinguistic group. They are polynesian settlers to be sure, but are not native in the same way Native Americans and Indigenous Australians are native. Nordic persons living in Iceland sould similarly be referred as Native Icelanders if we are to continue to use the term Native Hawaiian. Iceland was settled hundreds of years before the Polynesians settled Hawaii, so Icelanders probably have a greater right to claim Nativeness. I suggest a change to just Hawaiians and removal of the terms Native and Indigenous, unless referring to Taiwan, which most accept as the original homeland common to all polynesian peoples. 2600:1017:B02A:11E0:7EC9:7918:627B:5D4E (talk) 18:07, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia uses the terms that reliable sources use. Virtually every reliable source I have seen uses the term "Native Hawaiian." Aoi (青い) (talk) 18:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * You are parroting propaganda used to delegitimize the connection of Hawaiian peoples to their land. This argument is used by people minimizing the injustice of cultural genocide, colonization, and occupation. This talking point assumes that a culture must be established “long enough” before their colonizers can consider respecting them.
 * The term “native Hawaiian” IS questionable, but not for this reason. It is a dubious term (that isn’t accepted by Hawaiians) because there is only one kind of Hawaiian: someone who descends from the indigenous peoples of Hawaiʻi. The term “native Hawaiian” implies that there are non-native Hawaiians, which there aren’t. People who live in Hawaiʻi and are not of Hawaiian descent are not “Hawaiian” the way people can be “Californian” or “Minnesotan”. “Hawaiian” denotes an ethnicity, not a nationality.
 * If the page is to be updated from “Native Hawaiians” to “Hawaiians”, it would be accurate to add a subsection explaining its incorrect use due to the issue of ethnicity, NOT due to settler-colonialist propaganda points. Anhedonia2 (talk) 04:09, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that there are several policies & guidelines at play here.
 * WP:COMMONNAME If you state native Hawaiian to anyone else outside of Hawaiʻi, they know what you mean. If I say "a Hawaiian musician" it will commonly refer to any musician from Hawaiʻi, whether they be Kamaʻāina or of native Hawaiian descent.
 * It is a dubious term (that isn’t accepted by Hawaiians) seems to me to be an original research statement. Where is the verification from reliable sources for this? I lived on Oahu for nearly 14 years, & knew many & had friends who were of Hawaiian descent. While they would say that they were Hawaiian, or in some cases, Hapa, I did not hear any of them voice opposition as being identified as native Hawaiian.
 * Even if verified, is the supposition that the term native Hawaiian is unacceptable by Hawaiians a position held by a minority of Hawaiians, which can be sussed out by reviewing reliable sources? If so, then it is WP:UNDUE. If not, then it still will require a consensus here for a name change.
 * Peaceray (talk) 04:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This website (ʻAina Momona; link: https://www.kaainamomona.org/post/hawaiian-vs-californian-why-there-is-a-difference) has a few articles, with sources, discussing the lack of a need for the “native” prefix. It also cites a kumu of mine, Marie Alohalani Brown, who is a PhD and cultural practitioner. The reason it seems like a “minority” of Hawaiians express this sentiment is because a majority of non-Hawaiians continue to use the term “native Hawaiian” despite hearing from us that it’s not a necessary term. Hawaiians are not really a group that people in positions of power will listen to (see: Kū Kiaʻi Mauna, petitions against annexation, legal proceedings to restore sovereignty, protests against reopening the islands in the midst of COVID). We live very much in a situation where those with power over us assume our wants and needs and turn deaf ears toward us.
 * I would also like to add that, perhaps, there is a differential in our experiences. I AM Hawaiian, and I’ve been around Hawaiians my whole life, and participated in Hawaiian academic circles. The term “native Hawaiian” is recognized as a term non-Hawaiians use in these circles. Anhedonia2 (talk) 20:10, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Finally getting back to this. Thank you for clarifying your perspective.
 * The problem with is that it is on the  portion of https://www.kaainamomona.org. As per WP:BLOGS, blogs are a self-published source & thus generally not considered a reliable resource. We need to have reliable resources to support a proposal to rename this article from Native Hawaiian to something like Hawaiians. Peaceray (talk) 18:57, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Native Hawaiian ways of learning
I deleted this section. It doesn't seem like something that belongs in an encyclopedia and I can find nothing similar in the articles about other ethnic groups in Polynesia or any other part of the world.

Just the facts 808 (talk) 21:27, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Peaceray reverted this edit and asked me to discuss the proposed change on the talk page. But I already opened a discussion here. I also don't see why the default should be to keep whatever's already in the article.

 * Nobody has weighed in with an argument as to why this ethnic group should have this strange section in an encyclopedia article. The section itself doesn't explain why this content is here - is there evidence that Native Hawaiians have a distinct way of learning, but Samoans do not? If this section is going to remain, I think it needs to have a clear introduction that explains how we know that this particular Polynesian culture has unique ways of learning, which don't appear to be noted in the articles on any other culture.

 * Just the facts 808 (talk) 07:12, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

 * @Just the facts 808 it appears that the hawaian way of learning is deeply researched since there a lot of citations. some have however have been moved while a couple more are behind a paywall. However i think the biggest issue is that the Hawaian style of teaching in the classes may not have been appropriately captured in the passage. I will try to edit it to make it better suited. You may too try so. Thanks for your input LostCitrationHunter (talk) 07:22, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-03
— Assignment last updated by Momlife5 (talk) 15:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Native Hawaiians


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus/Evidence

Relevant article disputes
Please add to. Martin 19:56, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Location of Mongolia
See:

 * Mongolia History (Talk:Mongolia links to MediaWiki talk:Central Asia)
 * Template:Central Asia History (MediaWiki talk:Central Asia has discussion 11 Apr -> 5 May)
 * Template:East Asia History (MediaWiki talk:East Asia has discussion 5 May to 16 May)
 * Central Asia History (Talk:Central Asia has a tiny bit of discussion).

See also discussion on user talk:Wik

Cantus argues that Mongolia is in Cental Asia (and some agree with him). Some argue that it is in East Asia. Cantus made (eg) five reverts to Mongolia on 5 May (172 three, Wik three on same day) and (eg) six to Template:Central Asia. Previously four to Mongolia on 27 April. So Cantus is making excessive reverts, but not grossly excessive. In part because people are stepping in to protect the page.

From the literature cited on Talk pages, the placement of Mongolia varies from encyclopedia to encyclopedia. So both options are possibilities. A third possibility is to list it on both.

Page footers doesn't help much. WikiProject Countries/Templates/Navboxes is just informative. These pages or Talk page could be used to try to find out whether it's permissable for a country to have two different footers, which might rule out the "both" option - without that, the only guide is the Russia precedent. Otherwise, there aren't any policies to decide - it's a strict content dispute.

Discussion is taking place, (inc. by Cantus) and it looks genuine, but doesn't seem to be helping very much. Maybe some people are being convinced or partially convinced, and are thus dropping out of the debate, but other than that, no wins. A poll hasn't been tried yet - that might help. Martin 00:33, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: First, I was on the intention of including Mongolia only in Central Asia. Then I acknowledged that some people regarded it to be part of East Asia as well. A user had the idea to list Mongolia in both MediaWiki's, and I agreed and proceeded to add Mongolia to both. User:Wik insisted in only including Mongolia in East Asia, so he kept reverting the consensus that was reached to include it in both. In those cases I was only reverting to the agreed version. --Cantus 03:13, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Template:Europe
See history.

MediaWiki talk:Europe has discussion, and the start of a poll which, in all likelihood, will generate sufficient consensus to close the matter. Seven reverts by Cantus in a day (5 May). Cantus has discussed some (not a vast amount, but not none). Martin 00:47, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: I have been totally cooperative with the community in this case. I've helped create a poll to decide which entries should be included. The poll is in the works at MediaWiki talk:Europe, but as of this post, not yet opened. --Cantus 03:13, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Fahrenheit 9/11
See Talk page.

Neuromancien said "check this please". Hmm, for what, exactly? Ok, I'm going to ask Neuromancien to expand on his comments - user talk:Neuromancien Martin 00:54, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * See . Revision as of 18:59, 2004 May 22 was not neutral and was made by Cantus when Michael Moore receives Palme d'Or at Cannes Festival for Fahrenheit 9/11.

 * again it was not neutral and probably will be used to remove any contreversial thing any artist does !--Neuromancien 05:21, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * At 01:01, 23 May 2004 Cantus erase all quotes from page Fahrenheit 9/11.

 * i'm not a vandal : 1) quote is not a copyvio 2)i ask the user before rv (it seems that I was mistaken [User:Guanaco]23:36, 22 May 2004) 3) watch the relevant page others paste quotes too ! only your rv looks like censorship --Neuromancien 05:21, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * At 01:11, 23 May 2004 Michael Moore page was erased by an anonymous User.

 * I sent an alert for page Michael Moore and asked Cantus for the quotes deletation.

 * again you delete my link ! ( it was a short one ) when did you reply ? one week later !
 * He made more than one hundred posts in the same period and just moved my question without answering.

 * (point 21 of your talk page now ) you delete also part of my answer here ( see below ) ! --Neuromancien 09:34, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The coincidence and my confusion came from the comparison of the posts the lack of any answer (and my further readings about vandalism and revert wars from "silent" cantus ). See here for details. i never wrote that it is in front of the section !!!!

 * Cantus alters ( partial deletation & paste ) my statement HERE and just add his own redirection ( to his own so labelled off-topic ) without his signature ! no more comment ! --Neuromancien 11:10, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

 * you erase ( it was not duplicate at this time ) and link to your own comment --Neuromancien 05:21, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

User Cantus..........................User 66.2.146.153  23:58, 23 May 2004 (17 posts) 22:00, 23 May 2004 10:11, 23 May 2004 (6 posts) 10:00, 23 May 2004
 * ..........................09:37, 23 May 2004 Catherine Bell ( message by 66.2.146.153)

no post 08:35, 23 May 2004 <tt>08:23, 23 May 2004</tt> <tt>06:53, 23 May 2004</tt> <tt>(33 posts)</tt> <tt>04:29, 23 May 2004</tt> <tt>01:46, 23 May 2004</tt> <tt>(12 posts)</tt> <tt>01:13, 23 May 2004</tt>
 * ..........................'01:12, 23 May 2004 (hist) Michael Moore ( same pattern & fast edit as clone see 4 Sock puppets)''

'''
 * ..........................01:11, 23 May 2004 (hist) Michael Moore ( fast edit profanities)
 * ..........................01:11, 23 May 2004 Michael Moore (vandalism erase full page)

no post <tt>01:01, 23 May 2004</tt> <tt>(47 posts)</tt> <tt>19:22, 22 May 2004</tt>
 * Once again coincidence is not an evidence but I hope Cantus will stop erasing contributions so quickly or at least will answer "ridiculous" question next time... sorry for all this waste of time.(bis)

 * --Neuromancien 07:36, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * you destroy half of my answer ten minutes after i wrote it ! --Neuromancien 09:34, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Please stop editing and deleting my words ( smart ), use show preview for your own posts and answer question next time when you delete and i will not complain anymore CQFD   'I give up ! --Neuromancien 05:21, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)'

Response: I've removed all my replies to this user. I've had enough. Please don't ask me to put them back in. I won't waste any more time with these ridiculous claims. --Cantus 06:20, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * so easy ! --Neuromancien 04:24, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Schnorrer
See also Shnorrer, and Talk:Schnorrer

So there's a poll taking place. Hasn't quite followed polling guidelines, but not hideous. Four reverts on 27 Apr by Cantus. Obviously there was the sock puppet thing earlier, which turned out to be Nico. Big war over a tiny dispute... is that actually a problem, though? Martin 01:13, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: Again, I've been totally cooperative with the community here, using the Talk page to try to reach an agreement over what version should be used. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Augusto Pinochet
After heavy investigation, I have determined that this is a mess. If anyone who knows about it cares, they can expand on that. Martin 00:16, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Response: I've been using the Talk page extensively in this case. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Royalty
See:

 * Diana, Princess of Wales and attempt(s) to move to Diana, princess of Wales). Talk:Diana, Princess of Wales doesn't seem to have any relevant discussion.
 * Charles, Prince of Wales (nothing on Talk:Charles, Prince of Wales either).

What little discussion there is seems to be on User_talk:Cantus. Martin 15:19, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Martin 15:19, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: Other users convinced me I was wrong in my changes and I stopped making them very quickly. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * This is not true - you continued at it in various ways for several days. You gave up only because there were a large number of people who just reverted you.  My problem with Cantus is that on a number of subjects that have clearly gone through a long process to arrive at a consensus (the royalty pages, but also the various mediawiki pages with lists of countries), he simply comes in, makes major changes, and reverts attempts to return to the earlier listing.  Frequently, what support he offers comes from referring people to pages which he himself has already altered to mean what he wants them to mean.  See his recent attempts to claim that Oceania does not include Australia, for instance (at, I believe MediaWiki talk:Pacific Islands, but don't quote me on that.  And, as far as I can tell, these kinds of edits, and the revert wars that follow, are practically Cantus's entire contribution to Wikipedia (Correct me if I'm wrong on that, of course).  john k 20:01, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Ugh... I won't even bother with this guy. Hate seems to come out of his skin pores. Completely misleading comments, totally unconstructive. --Cantus 03:41, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh, quit it, I don't hate you, I'm contemptuous of you, there's a big difference. I don't hate anybody on wikipedia, that'd be pointless.  As to my comments, perhaps some of them were unconstructive, and I have not made a secret of my (poor) opinion of you as a wikipedia editor.  But I would like to see a response to the fact that you change articles, and then cite unsupported stuff that you yourself wrote to justify changes to other articles.  This is exactly what you did at MediaWiki talk:Pacific Islands.  You cited Template:Continent, which you yourself had changed to say that Australia was not part of Oceania to prove that Australia should not be listed as part of Oceania on Template:Pacific Islands.  That's just completely dishonest. john k 04:33, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Harassment of Wik
Eg vandalism of Wik's user page on two occasions:

See:

 * , and
 *

In retaliation for Wik doing the same to User:Cantus, it seems. Cantus says "see this earlier edit".

And there was the 12 Apr harassment on user talk the arbcom noted previously (inc. while temp-banned).

Cantus doesn't appear to have edited the pages like user talk:Wik/Talk that Wik objected to. There's a dodgy removal of one of 172's comments on user talk:Wik on 16 Apr. Also, there was the 11 Apr edit war with Wik and Danny on user talk:Wik - 15 reverts.

Wik's alleged a greater amount of harassment than I'm seeing so far, probably due to incorrectly believing that Augusta was Cantus.

Some unpleasant edit summaries, including:

 * "Ban Wik for a FUCKING year" on Central Asia
 * "Does Wik have a life? Are you jobless? Girlfriendless? Or are you just plain pathetic to be here all day?" on East Asia

Martin 01:37, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: I'm guilty of the removal of User:172's message from User:Wik's Talk page, which I thought was unfair and uncalled for. The other edits were me trying to add some formatting to Wik's Talk page, which seemed to be a big mess. Wik obviously didn't like this.

User:Wik claims that Augusta reverted on the Ethics article. The fact is Nico was Augusta, and he has confessed. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Hiding criticism

 * As a third party, what you did at User_talk:Wik comes dangerously close to censorship. I suggest you either desist or explain yourself when you make these kinds of edits. -- Dissident 23:54, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Cantus removed this in a minor edit, with no edit summary. Dissident is referring to the removal of 172's comment noted above. Martin

Response: See above. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Also (this was a byproduct of the temp-ban and edit war over Wik's user talk page, above). Martin 01:58, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: According to User:Danny, I am allowed to remove messages from my Talk page. Many other users seem to agree. I was actually banned by Danny because he was removing my comments from his Talk page and I was reverting to put my comments back in. He stated there that users should be allowed to remove content they disliked from their Talk pages. I was just following an admin's advice. --Cantus 03:41, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Sock puppets
Some were used and admitted earlier (eg "kiw", etc). But there've been allegations since - eg user:Quagga. I've asked Cantus on his user talk page, but Quagga and Cantus deny that there's any connection.

Neuromancien asks "is User Nico (a ghost  or a clone ?)". Cantus denies that (see below) - not seen any evidence yet that they are the same person.

Martin 12:24, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
 * i just observe that Cantus wrote User:Nico not User:Nico as usual and i watch Page Nico he is obviously not a fair user or at least he vanished ( just trace his last comments ... ) I never say it was Cantus himself. --Neuromancien 12:44, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Response: I'm simply not User:Quagga. The only other sockpuppet that's not listed at Requests_for_arbitration/Wik2/Evidence which was me was User:Hoytter. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Since Cantus has elsewhere asked me to JUST SUPPORT HIM FOR ONCE, or some such, I'll note that User:Quagga would appear to be the new name of User:Dagestan, and thus, presumably, not Cantus. User:Nico is certainly not Cantus.  Nico is basically interested in the question of German expellees from Central Europe.  As far as I'm aware, Cantus has no particular interest in this issue. I would, however, note that Cantus has sockpuppeted from various anonymous IP addresses, using them to make comments on his own banning and referring to himself in the third person. john k 06:13, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I would note further that Hoytter and 66.2.146.153 had the same "patterns" (three speed re-edit in mins on the same page, one unique connection just after 01:00 AM for resp. 24 & 23 May 2004 ). ( see Fahrenteit 9/11 section's  history : Cantus also obviously used "fast re-edit" more than "show preview" )--Neuromancien 04:25, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * *sigh* --Cantus 01:02, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Inappropriate blocks
172 also didn't like [my formatting of Wik's talk page] and banned me for 3 days over this formatting to Wik's Talk page. User:RickK subsequently banned my whole IP range. I opened two requests over at Requests for review of administrative actions because of this unfair action. --Cantus 03:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Personal attacks and rude statements in edit summaries
Cantus has also made personal attacks and rude statements in his edit summaries.

     are just a few examples of this. This also is not an appropriate use of the edit summary, as it does not explain what the edit was. Guanaco 04:34, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh my god... paranoid *and* sensitive. You should see the edit summaries of certain admins. --Cantus 09:03, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

In conclusion
Evidence strongly shows that it is very likely that you can accuse me of excessive reverts, but not of refusing to discuss with the community to attempt to resolve these issue and reach consensus. --Cantus 03:54, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

While it is undoubtedly true that Cantus may in certain circumstances be willing to discuss matters with others, it is also accurate to suggest that in some cases he has prevented others from doing the same by deleting comments (as noted in the above "Hiding Criticism" section). -- Emsworth 00:46, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)


text:
Wichita Thunder

The Wichita Thunder are a minor league hockey team based in Wichita, Kansas. The team played in the Central Hockey League from 1992 until 2014, and then in the ECHL since the 2014–15 season. From 1992 until December 2009, the Thunder played in the Britt Brown Arena located in the northern Wichita suburb of Park City. In January 2010 (the second half of the 2009–10 season), the team began playing its home games at the newly built Intrust Bank Arena. The Thunder are currently the ECHL affiliate of the San Jose Sharks.

Central Hockey League
The Thunder was one of the first six original teams of the second iteration of the Central Hockey League, along with the Oklahoma City Blazers, Tulsa Oilers, Memphis RiverKings, Dallas Freeze and the Fort Worth Fire. Wichita played its first home game at Britt Brown Arena on November 4, 1992, in front of a crowd of 5,486. In the same season, the Thunder had its first sellout in team history when the crowd of 9,686 fans watched the Thunder defeat Oklahoma City 4–3.

The Thunder was originally coached by Gary Fay, but after a 6–20 start, he was replaced by Doug Shedden. The season was quickly turned around by Shedden, and it finished its first season with a 25–32–2 record. On April 5, 1993, the Thunder goaltender Robert Desjardins was named the first CHL Rookie of the Year. In the following two seasons, the Thunder was the regular season champion (Adams Cup) and playoff champion (William Levins Memorial Cup). Ron Handy was the Playoff Most Valuable Player for both seasons and was the only player in Central Hockey League history to win the award on multiple occasions. In the 1993–94 season, Doug Shedden won the Coach of the Year award, Robert Desjardins won the Regular Season Most Valuable Player award and Paul Jackson won the Scoring Champion award.

On May 14, 1995, Shedden resigned to become coach of the Louisiana IceGators of the East Coast Hockey League (ECHL). Don Jackson was hired as the new head coach on July 21, 1995. He led the Thunder to a 22–39–3 record and missed the playoffs for the second time in franchise history. On July 19, 1996, Jackson resigned to become head coach of the Kansas City Blades of the International Hockey League (IHL). Jackson was replaced by Bryan Wells to become the Thunder's fourth head coach in franchise history. Wells went on to coach the Thunder for five seasons, making the playoffs in four out of the five seasons he coached. On May 2, 2001, Wells was dismissed as head coach.

After the dismissal of Wells, the Thunder announced that James Latos would be the new head coach. In Latos' first season coaching, the team went 24–34–6 and was out of the playoffs. Latos was fired the following season after a disappointing start of 8–19–7. Five days after his dismissal, the Thunder announced that Derek Laxdal would become the team's new head coach. Laxdal went on to coach the Thunder for two seasons to an 87–58–8 record while securing two separate playoff places. On August 3, 2005, Laxdal announced his resignation to become the head coach of the ECHL's Idaho Steelheads.

Mark French took over as head coach from 2005 to 2007. During his tenure, he compiled a record of 70–59–16. He was fired mid-season in December 2007 with a 4–13 record. He went on to become the assistant coach of the AHL's Hershey Bears and the following season took them to a championship as head coach. The Thunder then named former player Rob Weingartner to lead the team. Weingartner played for the Thunder from 1992 to 1996 when he was a member of two championship teams. Weingartner compiled a record of 16–29–2 during his tenure. He has since become the head coach of the Western States Hockey League's Wichita Jr. Thunder.

Brent Bilodeau was hired during the 2008 off-season and led the team for two seasons and a record of 22–48–0. He was fired early in his second season and became the assistant coach of the Western Hockey League's Tri-City Americans for two seasons. After the Thunder fired Bilodeau nine games into the 2009–10 season, Jason Duda was given the job on an interim basis while on injured reserve. Duda owns several franchise records from his Thunder career, scoring 870 points in 14 seasons. He finished the season with a 7–43–5 record and became an assistant coach under the next head coach, Kevin McClelland.

ECHL
On October 7, 2014, soon before the 2014–15 CHL season was set to begin, it was announced that the Central Hockey League had ceased operations and the Thunder, along with the Allen Americans, Brampton Beast, Quad City Mallards, Missouri Mavericks, Rapid City Rush and Tulsa Oilers, were all approved for membership into the ECHL for the 2014–15 season. The team finished fifth out of seven teams in the Central Division, scoring 73 points out of 144.

On April 16, 2016, the Thunder announced that the team would not renew McClelland's contract for the 2016–17 season. He had been with the Thunder since 2010 and guided the team for six seasons becoming the longest tenured coach in Thunder history, leading the team for 408 games. During his time in Wichita, McClelland compiled a record of 194–166–48, earning a playoff spot in his first season and taking the team to the playoff finals in the following two seasons while still in the CHL. However, he failed to lead the team into the ECHL playoffs in his two seasons leading the team in the ECHL and the Thunder finished last in the overall standings in the 2015–16 season.

Malcolm Cameron was announced as the new head coach on May 20, 2016. One of his stated intentions in his opening press conference was to establish the Thunder's first NHL affiliation for the upcoming season. On July 4, 2016, the Ottawa Senators' assistant general manager, Randy Lee, said that his team was in negotiations for an affiliation with the Thunder for the 2016–17 season. The affiliation with the Senators and their American Hockey League affiliate, the Binghamton Senators, was finally confirmed on July 14. After one season, the Thunder changed affiliations to the Edmonton Oilers (NHL) and Bakersfield Condors (AHL). After three seasons, and one playoff appearance, Cameron was not offered an extension.

On May 15, 2019, the Thunder announced that the former Tulsa Oilers' head coach Bruce Ramsay would be Cameron's replacement.

Retired numbers

 * 9 - Ron Handy
 * 11 - Jason Duda
 * 15 - Rob Weingartner
 * 35 - Robert Desjardins
 * 38 - Travis Clayton

Notable NHL alumni
List of Wichita Thunder alumni who played more than 25 games in Wichita and 25 or more games in the National Hockey League: • Vincent Desharnais

• Pierre-Cedric Labrie

• Theo Peckham

• Stuart Skinner

• Ryan White

Awards and trophies
The following lists the league awards which have been won by the Thunder team and its players.

ECHL
Most Valuable Player
 * Anthony Beauregard: 2020–21

Coach of the Year
 * Bruce Ramsay: 2020–21

General Manager of the Year
 * Bruce Ramsay: 2020–21

Community Service Award
 * Jeremy Beaudry: 2017–18

CHL
William Levins Memorial Cup
 * 1993–94, 1994–95

Adams Cup
 * 1993–94, 1994–95

Coach of the Year
 * Doug Shedden: 1993–94
 * Kevin McClelland: 2011–12

Joe Burton Award
 * Jason Duda: 2004–05

Ken McKenzie Trophy
 * Paul Jackson: 1993–94

Playoff Most Valuable Player
 * Ron Handy: 1993–94, 1994–95

Most Outstanding Defenseman Rick Kozuback Award
 * Paul Esdale: 2004–05
 * Andrew Martens: 2010–11
 * Kevin Young: 2012–13
 * Jason Duda: 2009–10

Rookie of the Year
 * Robert Desjardins: 1992–93
 * Cory Dosdall: 1996–97
 * David Beauregard: 1997–98

All-Star Game Most Valuable Player (North)
 * Joe Blaznek: 2005–06

title: Wichita Thunder


text:
User:Lunkwill

Proposal regarding User:Lunkwill/nym

Lunkwill's user page

title: User:Lunkwill


text:
Talk:List of ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy

Untitled
For some reason, if you type the exact name of this page into the search box, it does not take you to the article. A Google search only yields the United States Navy ship list. Someone with linking knowledge should correct this.

Mysterious cruisers
This page had these ships in the list of cruisers: Kamo was a merchant ship. I couldn't find any sources referring to Kizu or Nayoro. So I took them out. Gdr 21:25, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)
 * Kamo
 * Kizu
 * Nayoro

Uncertain types of 1st class submarines
I edited the first class submarines list but there were several uncertain types. So I removed them temporarily, but if You know, revert them please.

 * KRS type Kiraisen type?
 * L4 type L type was the old 2nd class.
 * B4 type S49A? but it was the plan only.
 * C4 type S49B? but it was the plan only.
 * ST type Toku type(=Sentoku) or Senkou type? (Sentaka was misreading of Senkou)
 * SH type Senho type?
 * TK type Toku type?

Byouyou 11:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect Link (Akitzuki class DD)
Even though I'm not an expert at Japanese warships, I could find an obvious error with this page. For example, Akizuki class destroyers in this page means those used in WW2, however, the link points to those built after the end of WW2. These two classes are absolutely different, even though they are using the same name (For example, CV Enterprise in WW2 is a different one from the nuclear carrier Enterprise).

Almeida?
If she's class ship, why does her page list Momi as Matsu-class...? And what happened to the 1915 Momos? confusedsailorman 03:37 & 05:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Sparviero class - Patrol vessels
This is correct here? Sparviero class is younger a bit than the IJN or not? --188.142.193.35 (talk) 22:53, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071015214059/http://earth.endless.ne.jp/users/mac0115/nihonnnokanntei7.html to http://earth.endless.ne.jp/users/mac0115/nihonnnokanntei7.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:26, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge List of early warships of Japan into List of ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy. The former is merely a duplicate of the latter's Medieval warships section; there's no need for a stand-alone list with only 4 entries which are already covered here. Pinging and, who proposed the early warships article for deletion for this reason about a year ago, as well as  who objected to the proposed deletion.

I also wonder, but this is unrelated to the merge, how the distinction between 'medieval' and 'early modern' is defined. For example, the San Juan Bautista, listed as medieval, is literally described as a Western-style sail warship, which is itself a subsection of the early modern section. Lennart97 (talk) 13:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

 * I've performed the merge. I've also renamed the Medieval warships section to Early warships as 'medieval' doesn't mean anything in a Japanese context. Lennart97 (talk) 19:19, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

More info + new format
I think a straight list lacks usefulness so I converted to tables. Starting with the Battleship section, see how it goes. Hungrydog55 (talk) 00:21, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

1st pass at new format for destroyers
Hi, everyone. In the spirit of my previous post, I have reformatted the first bunch of destroyers. See what you think. If anyone feels like doing some casual proofreading, by all means have at it. Hungrydog55 (talk) 02:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Egil's Saga

I corrected the nationality of Egill. Since he was a homicidal maniac, I should perhaps have let it stand uncorrected, me being an Icelander. :-) Anyway, I used it as an opportunity to add a stub about his father. Io 20:11, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry for the changes as you can see at. I do not know / remember / recall how this happened. I appologise. Please note that both variants of the name are used Egill Skallagrímsson and Egill Skalla-Grímsson. Regards Gangleri 18:11, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

Article name
Shouldn't this be named Egil's saga, in keeping with Njál's saga, and the fact that the "s" is a possessive from English convention? Since the Icelandic is "Egla," then clearly we haven't inherited the spelling from that source. I'd like to see this moved.zadignose 08:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Egils saga is the normal Old Norse / Icelandic form; Egla is more of a nickname. Similarly Njáls saga and Njála. Haukur 10:20, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The form Egils saga seems fine for encyclopedic content written in "normal Old Norse / Icelandic"; however, this is not the case in English where the possessive /s/ is generally marked with an apostrophe. This may be referenced through an examination of published translations into English, which tend to follow the normal grammatical rules of English rather than the source language(s). Dcattell (talk) 17:25, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

 * We shouldn't really go by English translated titles.
 * It might seem fine for "Egil's saga" (so an exception might be made), but in general the English titles are given in the form "The Saga of .. " form which is awkward/inconvenient.

 * Can you imagine a Norse reference book that filed most of the "sagas" under "S"? Or used forms like "Laxardal, the People of, the Saga of"? See how it gets ugly?
 * One of the few A-Z refrences that has entries for each saga is the multivolume "Dictionary of the Middle Ages" (Scribner's), and they use the Icelandic/Norse titles.

 * So let's go by what WP:ENGLISH guideline really says: it explicitly states we should follow "reliable sources" such as "scholarly journals", and scholars writing papers or Enclclopedia entries in English tend to use the Norse/Icelandic form. --Kiyoweap (talk) 09:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

kveld-úlfur was not a shape shifter
his nickname comes from the fact that he was 'hamrammur', so he became incredibly strong and moody during the nights, like a wolf, but he does not shift shapes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.197.200.182 (talk) 17:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

The saga says that Kveldulf was a shape-shifter, unambiguously Urselius (talk) 11:43, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Citation? -- Palthrow (talk) 18:32, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Page 21 Egil's Saga, Penguin Classics, Snorri Sturluson. Translated by Hermann Pálsson, Paul Geoffrey Edwards (1976). ISBN 0140443215, 9780140443219

It says "...there was talk about him (Kveldulf) being a shape-shifter." What I meant was that a term for "shape-shifter" was used in the text, rather than that Kveldulf was physically able to assume animal form.Urselius (talk) 10:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

 * The word translated as "shape shifter" in other translations is "shape strong". I gather from translator's footnotes that a "shape strong" person took on animal powers, but not animal form in the sense of the werewolf legends.  Another translator says that the "shape strong" would fall into a deep sleep, and while their bodies lay abed they would roam the night in animal form.  So, sourses differ.

 * On the subject of the apostrophe. As it stands, the article sometimes includes the apostrophe, sometimes omits it.  It should do one or the other. Rick Norwood (talk) 20:24, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes, I'm learning now that we have to be careful with the meaning of the term hamrammr or hamremi in Icelandic (inserted in  by ). Cf. Cleasby and Vigfusson

 * Or you might follow Zoega and say the word has dual meaning. So in chapter 1, people who knew Kveldulf's called him hamrammr, i.e., not in the literal sense of "(1) shapeshifter" but in the sense "(2) seized with warlike fury" (berserks-gangr) -- just as 85.197.200.182 stated.

 * The indication that the latter is favored is seen when the word recurs in Chapter 27, where a passage reads "It is said that when people take on the character of animals, or went berserk (hamrammir eru, eda þeim er berserksgangr var á)" they are completely exhausted, and Kveldulf was the same way: when his "frenzy" ("gékk hamremmin") wore off, he became weak. Note that the translator Scudder here has rendered hamrammr as "taking on the character of animals" rather "shape-shifting".--Kiyoweap (talk) 23:38, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Apostrophe
I've looked at a number of books, books published in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries, and most use the spelling "Egil's". Most books that use the spelling "Egils" are in the original language. It seems standard, in scholarly circles, to translate "Egils" as "Egil's". I propose moving this article, and other saga articles, accordingly, but don't want to do anything that's going to get reverted. Is there any objection? 13:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rick Norwood (talk • contribs)

 * I would prefer to keep it where it is, the current title is what's used in the highest quality English sources I have, e.g. McTurk's A Companion to Old Norse-Icelandic Literature and Culture. In Old Norse, Egils is the genitive of Egill. Haukur (talk) 13:48, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

 * says "It seems standard, in scholarly circles, to translate "Egils" as "Egil's" but this is really not the case. He probably didn't look far beyond the titles of the English translations of the saga.
 * Wikipedia policy WP:RS says articles should preferably be built around reilable (scholarly) secondary sources, whereas translations are considered primary sources.

 * What pointed out is that the form Egils saga is common in such scholarly secondary sources.
 * If you search scholar.google.com, it is rather easy to confirm that "Egils saga" is the form commonly used in papers written in English by such academics at Jessie L. Byock (at UC Berkeley), Theodore M. Andersson (at Indiana U), or Carolyne Larrington (formerly Oxford). --Kiyoweap (talk) 01:54, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

 * I also said that I had no objection to using "Egils", but that we should be consistent, as I'm sure you would agree.Rick Norwood (talk) 14:53, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

I understand that the title in Old Norse is Egils Saga, and I have no objection in principle to using the untranslated title, Wikipedia uses Le Morte d'Arthur rather than "The Death of Arthur". If we do that, though, the article (and other similar articles) should be consistent throughout, instead of jumping back and forth between one form and the other. Rick Norwood (talk) 12:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree that we should retain the Old Norse titles, and that we must remain consistent throughout the articles. Please fix inconsistencies when you spot them. bloodofox: (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Old Norse titles should be reserved for Old Norse Wikipedias. English Wikipedia titles should favor English titles. However, the Old Norse/Icelandic original forms should be duly noted in the content. In any case, with proper redirect pages in place, why should it really matter? Dcattell (talk) 17:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * However, the best practice should be to use the apostrophe (in English). At least as importantly, the /s/ in "Saga" should be capitalized, since it is a proper part of the title of this work. Perhaps the users of the encyclopedic content provided may be misled by any other form than "Egil's Saga". Dcattell (talk) 17:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Music
I thought you fine folk might be interested in this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oYmc9WTdSs

Perhaps the Icelandic speakers can indicate how authentic the lyrics are. — Chameleon 11:39, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Egill vs. Egil (intentionally both used?)
In Icelandic Egill is the correct name, but Egil, Agli and Egils (as in Egils saga, corresponding to Egill's saga in English) are also forms of the name but would look wrong to me in English (with or without the added 's). This is at least the modern Icelandic version but I believe also the ancient form. To me only Egill (and Egill's) would be correct English. Or maybe Egil (and Egil's), if that form is preferred. I think only the former should be used in the article and maybe mention the Egil for once. comp.arch (talk) 12:37, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

 * We've had this discussion before, and the last time I yielded to the expertise of those who knew Old Norse. This time, I think not.  As pointed out above, Wikipedia is written in English, and in English all editions of the saga that I could find are titled "Egil's Saga".  The only editions titled "Egils Saga" are written in Old Norse, and I could not find any edition with even an introduction in English titled "Egills Saga" or "Egill's Saga".  I'll wait for discussion before doing it, but I think we need to move this article to "Egil's Saga" and standardize the usage in the article.  We can mention that it has other names in Old Norse and in other languages.  Note, for comparison, the Wikipedia article Don Quixote, not "don Quijote".   Rick Norwood (talk) 15:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hearing no objection... . Rick Norwood (talk) 14:18, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Only saw this now. I added to the original above. Wasn't clear. I do not "know" Old Norse, but I know (modern) Icelandic and I believe it's pretty close and assume what I know applies to Old Norse. I came here originally checking out why people say the name is Egil when Egill would be correct. Egil seems to be some misunderstanding in that Egils (as in English Egil's) would translate to the name Egil. comp.arch (talk) 19:23, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 00:37, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Egils saga → Egil's Saga – Wikipedia uses English language punctuation and capitalization, not Old Norse. Also, Egil's Saga is the name most commonly used and most easily recognizable. Rick Norwood (talk) 14:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I might not object to using an English title if correct, but think Egill's would be right. See: [saga]. Note previous section. Maybe this should be discussed somewhere elso also, see Njals saga. Maybe not in some individual pages but some project (Icelandic sagas or litteracy) pages first? comp.arch (talk) 19:28, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

While Egill's might be right in some languages, you have only to look at a list of all published versions of the saga in the English language to see that the universally accepted English usage is Egil's Saga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rick Norwood (talk • contribs)
 * Support in principle and I'll leave the experts to decide the particulars. Red Slash 04:12, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I understand the desire to use English titles on English Wikipedia, but where do we draw the line for translating titles of foreign-language works? As someone else mentioned, the Le Morte d'Arthur page is not titled The Death of Arthur. Will you rename that page too? And will you also move the pages for Gesta Danorum and Der Ring des Nibelungen to their English equivalents? 76.26.141.174 (talk) 07:22, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Dicklyon (talk) 02:31, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Proper name and possessive. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:41, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No, because they're commonly known by their foreign titles in English-speaking countries and those titles are almost never translated! Egil's Saga, on the other hand, is known in English as...Egil's Saga! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

In response to Necrothesp: don't you mean that Egils saga is known in English as Egil's Saga? And why is its title commonly translated? 76.26.141.174 (talk) 03:54, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

One version of Þórólfr /Thorolf?
Can we have Þórólfr/Thorolf's name in one version after the first appearance? I would go with Thorolf (Þórólfr) on first mention, and Thorolf thereafter, since this is the English Wikipedia, but the other way around would be preferable to using both versions each time. Nareek (talk) 19:13, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Thorolf Kvelulfsson
I added details on Þórólfr Kveld-Úlfsson, without realize an Thorolf Kveldulfsson page covers the details redundantly. I'm going to merge the material into the pre-existing page, which will be crossref'd as a WP:SUBARTICLE.--Kiyoweap (talk) 10:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

The "Myrar family
Every Icelander, whose lineage is known for the last few generations, is certainly a descendant of Egill. But what is meant by that family name nonsense in the paragraph? Cheers Werner Vogel (talk) 19:00, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Egil's Saga


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people who have not committed suicide

This page is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of the page entitled List of people who have not commited suicide.

This page is kept as an historic record.

The result of the debate was to delete the article.

The most ridiculous list of people I have seen here so far, as everyon not on List of people who commited suicide can be listed there. I was tempted to delete it by speedy deletion directly as being patent nonsense. andy 20:12, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * LOL. I though it was quite funny :). Move to BJAODN and delete. Thue 20:19, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. But it seems we might have a use for a List of people falsely thought to have commited suicide or some such. Rhymeless 20:25, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha. I haven't laughed like that since BJAODN:Bill Gates.  I love this part, under self-sacrificers: The pilot in Air Force One movie who moved his plane in front of a missile to save the President.  Delete, Bad Jokes.  blankfaze | &#9835 20:27, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * This is just dumb, and horribly incomplete. Delete. -- Cyrius|&#9998 20:31, May 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. BJAODN for sure. Andrewa 21:00, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. anthony (see warning) 21:19, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Absurd. There are some ridiculous lists outthere, but this is bizar. --Wyllium 22:05, 2004 May 27 (UTC)
 * Is this really any sillier than List of people? Meelar 22:30, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * No, but it's redundant to that list. anthony (see warning) 22:40, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hilarious, though. Everyking 22:35, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Split into List of people whose non-suicidal cause of death is confirmed and List of people whose death is rumored not to have been suicide. Then delete both of those lists. Dpbsmith 22:56, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Now those would be interesting lists. However delete this one. It's silly, but not particularly funny, so no BJAODN. Wile E. Heresiarch 23:34, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * No reason to delete. Instead list on List of articles that have not been deleted by implosion... then delete - Tεx τ urε 23:08, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Last time I made a link like that, we ended up with Nude Wikipedia editing. -- Cyrius|&#9998 18:33, May 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, not even clever or funny. Fuzheado | Talk 23:39, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * not funny. delete, do not move to BJAODN. --Jiang 01:08, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, BJAODN. -Etaoin 01:11, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh come on Jiang and Fuzheado get a f***ing sense of humour! funny but should be Deleted Dainamo
 * Wish I was as easily entertained. Delete. Average Earthman 17:52, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Made me giggle. Now delete. — Chameleon 14:53, 28 May 2004 (UTC
 * Funny? Some people are easily amused... Delete. Denni 19:11, 2004 May 28 (UTC)
 * Redirect to list of famous alleged suicides, or delete. -Sean 00:31, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete to BJAODN. Is funny - at least in terms of the section on people who have not committeed suicide because they are still alive (Which is just wonderfully random). Is also unencyclopedic. Snowspinner 00:57, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
 * It says something about the editor's perception of Sarah Jessica Parker that she's first on the list of people who have not yet commited suicide. Is that a statement in favor of her health and sanity... or against it? Hmmm. -Sean Curtin 06:12, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
 * This is really funny, especially the "two categories". Remove from the main namespace, of course, but worth BJAODN'ing. VV 03:43, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete present content, but the page could be of interest if it listed people who were thought to have died by their own hand but didn't (i.e. 'the report of my death was greatly exaggerated' cases, people faking their death in order to escape custody or the courts). Rewrite suggested therefore. --VampWillow 19:43, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, but this is definitely BJAODN material. The first category cracks me up. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 22:13, Jun 1, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue or the deletion should be placed on other relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.