text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caesar cocktail

Move into book of recipes. Mikkalai 00:16, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * What about everything else linked from List of cocktails? AlexCruise 00:29, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. And send one over. --bodnotbod 00:49, May 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, part of the cocktails project; been there, done that. Smerdis of Tlön 03:09, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, but it could use a bit more encyclopedia-fication. In general, I think food/drink/etc. articles are fine here, so long as they are descriptive in an encyclopedia style rather than "how to make this" in a recipe-book style. --Delirium 04:53, May 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. -Rwv37 15:24, May 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Seems to be policy to keep cocktail recipes, and this is more than a recipe anyway. Andrewa 01:22, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep as it does list more than the recipe Burgundavia 07:28, May 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. And nominate for featured article.  Celery stalk in a drink at a bar.  Wish I'd known about this before a recent party I did themed salute to Canada, where we had roast beef, of course.  The inventor of this must have a great sense of humor. Kd4ttc 17:42, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep...unlike SoBe No Fear, which was deleted despite being the exact same type of article. Everyking 01:27, 16 May 2004 (UTC)


text:
Bench press

The bench press, or chest press, is a weight training exercise where a person presses a weight upwards while lying horizontally on a weight training bench. The bench press is a compound movement, with the primary muscles involved being the pectoralis major, the anterior deltoids, and the triceps brachii. Other muscles located in the back, legs and core are involved for stabilization. A barbell is generally used to hold the weight, but a pair of dumbbells can also be used.

The barbell bench press is one of three lifts in the sport of powerlifting alongside the deadlift and the squat, and is the only lift in Paralympic powerlifting. The bench press is also extensively used in weight training, bodybuilding, and other types of training to develop upper body muscles, primarily the pectoralis major. To improve upper body strength, power, and endurance for athletic, occupational, and functional performance as well as muscle development, the barbell bench press is frequently used.

Movement
The person performing the exercise lies on their back on a flat bench with a barbell grasped in both hands. They lower the barbell to chest level until it touches the chest, then press the barbell upwards, extending the arms until the elbows are locked out. This is one repetition (rep).

 * Powerlifting: Position yourself on a flat bench with body weight resting on your buttocks and upper traps, an arched back, and feet pressed against the floor. The weight must be lifted at full arm's length, lowered to upper torso, paused, and then lifted to starting position. Improving performance in powerlifting involves powerlifters implementing specific techniques. These include arching, taking deep breaths, and actively pressing their feet into the floor. These methods engage all body parts during the lift, ensuring proper weight distribution across the back, legs, and the floor.

History
The bench press has evolved over the years, from floor, bridge, and belly toss variations to the methods used by bodybuilders and powerlifters today. It became popular from the late 1950s onwards. Despite the fact the parallel dip is safer (the dip does not require spotters or safety bars), in the 1950s the bench press took over the dip in popularity and became the standard fare for chest exercises.

At first the strict floor press was the most popular method. In 1899, using a barbell with 48 cm discs (plates), George Hackenschmidt, inventor of the barbell hack squat, rolled a barbell over his face (which was turned to the side) and performed a strict floor press with 164 kg. This stood as a record for 18 years until Joe Nordquest broke it by 1 kg in 1916.

Around this time, new methods started gaining ground. Lifters began to discover that strong glutes could help them get the bar from the ground to overhead. They would lie on the floor and position the bar over their abdomen, then perform an explosive glute bridge movement, catapulting the bar upwards and catching it at lockout.

Lifting techniques, training, and drugs have improved over the years and the bench press record lift has grown from 164 kg to 355 kg (raw, record held by Julius Maddox) in approximately 100 years.

The bench press is used as a test of upper-body explosive strength during the NFL combine, where prospective NFL draft picks attempt to get as many reps of 225 lbs as possible.

Muscles
A conventional bench press uses the pectoralis major, front deltoids, and triceps brachii to horizontally adduct the shoulder. While flat bench pressing, the pectoralis major and pectoralis minor muscles are activated. The exercise also uses the triceps and anconeus to extend the elbows. The triceps are most crucial around the end of the press to help complete and lock out the elbows. With the right form, parts of the deltoids will be used to help make the lift, including the anterior deltoids. Wider hand spacing places a greater emphasis on shoulder flexion and narrower hand spacing utilizes more elbow extension. Because of this, wider hand spacing is associated with training the pectorals and narrower hand spacing is associated with training the triceps. Both close and wide hand spacing trains the deltoid area.

In addition to the major phasic (dynamic) muscles, the bench press also uses tonic (stabilizing) muscles, including the scapular stabilizers (serratus anterior, middle, and inferior trapezius), humeral head stabilizers (rotator cuff muscles), and core (transverse abdominis, obliques, multifidus, erector spinae, quadratus lumborum.)

Variations
Variations of the bench press involve different groups of muscles, or involve the same muscles in different ways:
 * Inclination
 * Flat bench press: The flat bench press involves both portions of the pectoralis major muscle but focuses on the lower (sternal) head as well as the anterior deltoid muscle. The term 'bench press' on its own is assumed to refer to a flat bench press.
 * Incline bench press: An incline elevates the shoulders and lowers the pelvis as if reclining in a chair; this variation emphasizes anterior deltoids with little emphasis on the upper (clavicular) head of the pectoralis major. This variation is called the incline bench press.
 * Decline bench press: A decline bench press elevates the pelvis and lowers the head and emphasizes the lower portion of the pectoralis major whilst incorporating shoulders and triceps.
 * Grip Sequence 01.webm
 * Reverse grip: A reverse grip bench press utilizes an underhand (supinated) grip on the bar. A supinated grip externally rotates the humerus, which puts the shoulders in a much more favorable position for the lift, decreasing injury potential without compromising the range of motion. It emphasizes the clavicular head of the pectoralis major more than an incline bench press. On the eccentric phase of the lift, the bar path will create a larger arc and eventually touch a point on the chest that is lower compared to the regular bench press, because the upper arms and elbows are closer to the body and the angle between the humerus and the torso is smaller.
 * Narrow grip (close grip): A bench press performed with the hands close together. It relies on the triceps to complete the pressing motion. Called the close grip bench press, this variation is best performed with arms in a near-vertical position to reduce strain placed upon the wrists, elbows, and shoulders. A close grip bench press can also be performed with dumbbells or a barbell with neutral grips.
 * Wide grip: A bench press performed with the hands far apart. It shortens the range of motion, lessening the contribution of the triceps.
 * Suicide grip (false grip, thumbless grip): Instead of the thumb being wrapped underneath the barbell, the thumb is placed next to the index finger where it sits on top of the barbell. Although it has its pros and cons, the suicide grip is sometimes used because it places the wrist in a better position, keeping shoulders safer, and allowing lifters to activate their triceps more. This grip is considered unsafe as it presents the risk of the bar rolling out of the lifters hand which in turn may cause injury by the dropped bar
 * Different lowering targets
 * A lifter can elect to lower the bar to nipple level, to the xiphoid process, or even further, to the abdomen.
 * On the other hand, a lifter may lower the bar to a very high point on the chest, or even to the neck; the latter variation is called a guillotine press and emphasizes the upper pectorals.
 * Altered stability: The bench press can be performed with various modifications to make the lifter or the weight less stable. Examples include lifting on a Swiss ball, using dumbbells instead of a barbell, or lifting with the legs on the bench or in the air.
 * Alternating arms: This involves using a pair of dumbbells and lifting and lowering one and then lifting and lowering the other; or lifting one while lowering the other in an alternating sequence.
 * Single arm: This involves using a single dumbbell and lifting it with one arm. When both arms are exercised in this unilateral manner, it can help to ensure that the arms perform the same amount of work and any excessive muscle imbalances are reduced. For example, in a standard barbell bench press, the right arm may perform 55% of the work and the left arm 45%. However, if the right or left arm is used singularly, then it can be assured that each arm is performing 100% of the work for that respective lift. This can mean that the strength of the right and left arms develops more evenly. The single-arm bench press can also mean greater levels of core activation.
 * Variable resistance: The bench press can be performed with chains or bands which are attached to either end of the barbell. They can be used to strengthen the upper range of motion in the movement and develop explosive power in the bench press. This means that the percentage of 1RM lifted for the stronger phase more closely matches the percentage 1RM for the weaker lower phase e.g., a person can lift 60 kg for one full rep (including the weaker lower phase) but can lift 90 kg for the stronger upper phase. So, by adding resistance they can better meet the respective 1RMs, in percentage terms, for both strength phases. The incorporation of chains and bands can help to develop explosive power in the bench press. An alternative is to combine heavier partial reps with lighter full reps.
 * Partial rep: A partial rep usually means lowering the bar partially before raising it again i.e., for a half or quarter rep.
 * Because this is a stronger ROM, significantly more weight can be lifted. When used in combination with lighter full reps, this can allow a person to better ensure that the percentage of 1RM lifted for the stronger and weaker phases of the movement is more consistent. For example, if 1RM is 100 kg for the lower phase and 150 kg for the upper phase, an 80 kg full ROM press is 80% of someone's 1RM for a full rep and lifting 120 kg for a partial which remains in the stronger phase of the movement is 80% for that phase. Full reps at a 1RM of 100 kg prevents the stronger phase of the lift from being trained at more than about 66% of its respective 1RM of 150 kg. Performing heavier partials can help to increase strength and power and also improve a person's 1RM for a full ROM press.
 * A different form of partial rep involves training the lower most difficult part of the movement in order to strengthen it and to avoid it being a ‘sticking point’ that stops the movement of the weight.
 * Equipped: An "equipped" bench press is performed with a stiff, supportive shirt that allows greater weights to be used. The materials and cut of the bench shirt, as well as the skill of the lifter and the rules of performance, will determine how much additional weight can be pressed in the shirt as opposed to without it. The contrast between equipped and unequipped (raw) bench press weights is illustrated in the progression of the bench press world records, with the record equipped lift exceeding the unequipped lift by hundreds of pounds.
 * With minor injury: People who suffer from shoulder injuries can use a specialized barbell such as the Swiss Bar or Football Bar that allows them to hold the bar in a neutral grip, reducing the amount of external rotation on the shoulder. It also engages the shoulder more, increasing power in upper body movements. Another variation is the hex press in which two dumbbells are squeezed against each other, with the palms facing inwards. This puts the strain of the exercise on the triceps and inner chest rather than the shoulders. The Floor Press is another variation that puts less strain on the lifter's shoulders, due to the shorter range of motion.

Possible injuries
Performing the bench press can contribute to multiple types of injuries: Many of these possible injuries can be avoided by using dumbbells instead of a barbell since dumbbells can be dropped without hitting the chest or neck, while also allowing greater external rotation of the shoulder which can help prevent shoulder injuries. Studies have also shown dumbbell bench press activates the pectorals more, which can lead to increased muscle growth.
 * Torn ligaments / tendons in shoulders
 * Injuries to the trapezius muscle
 * Elbow / wrist strains
 * Cracked or broken ribs, usually the result of bouncing the bar off of the chest to add momentum to the lift, or a loss of strength causing the bar to fall onto the chest.
 * Distal clavicular osteolysis: bone spur or erosion at the end of the clavicle. Athletes suffering from this condition should avoid doing bench presses.
 * Torn or damaged rotator cuff
 * Pectoral muscle tear
 * Cervical discopathy or, in extreme cases, spinal cord injury. While the mechanism is not clear, lifting the neck or arching the back and leaning on the lower neck while pressing the weight could stress the area.
 * Death by asphyxiation by being trapped under the bar (several each year).
 * Subclavian vein thrombosis

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Bench press


text:
Abdul-Satar al-Bahadli

Sheikh Abdul-Satar al-Bahadli is a senior Iraqi Shia cleric and confederate of Muqtada al-Sadr.

On 7 May 2004, responding to pictures of the abuse of prisoners by American integrators in Abu Gharib prison speaking in the city of Basra, he made a public announcement at a mosque offering cash rewards: 350 dollars for the capture of male US or British soldiers, 150 dollars for male US or British soldiers killed. If captured, he gave permission to keep female Western soldiers as slaves.

title: Abdul-Satar al-Bahadli


text:
Osteology

Osteology is the scientific study of bones, practised by osteologists. A subdiscipline of anatomy, anthropology, and paleontology, osteology is the detailed study of the structure of bones, skeletal elements, teeth, microbone morphology, function, disease, pathology, the process of ossification from cartilaginous molds, and the resistance and hardness of bones (biophysics).

Osteologists frequently work in the public and private sector as consultants for museums, scientists for research laboratories, scientists for medical investigations and/or for companies producing osteological reproductions in an academic context.

Osteology and osteologists should not be confused with the pseudoscientific practice of osteopathy and its practitioners, osteopaths.

Methods
A typical analysis will include:

 * an inventory of the skeletal elements present
 * a dental inventory
 * aging data, based upon epiphyseal fusion and dental eruption (for subadults) and deterioration of the pubic symphysis or sternal end of ribs (for adults)
 * stature and other metric data
 * ancestry
 * non-metric traits
 * pathology and/or cultural modifications

Applications
Osteological approaches are frequently applied to investigations in disciplines such as vertebrate paleontology, zoology, forensic science, physical anthropology, and archaeology. It has been shown that osteological characters have greater consistency with molecular phylogenies than non-osteological (soft tissue) characters, implying that they may be more reliable in reconstructing evolutionary history. Osteology has a place in research on topics including:
 * Ancient warfare
 * Activity patterns
 * Criminal investigations
 * Demography
 * Developmental biology
 * Diet
 * Disease
 * Genetics of early populations
 * Fossil assemblages
 * Health
 * Human migration
 * Identification of unknown remains
 * Physique
 * Social inequality
 * War crimes

Human osteology and forensic anthropology
Examination of human osteology is often used in forensic anthropology, which is usually used to identify age, death, sex, growth, and development of human remains and can be used in a biocultural context.

There are four factors leading to variation in skeletal anatomy: ontogeny (or growth), sexual dimorphism, geographic variation and individual, or idiosyncratic, variation.

Osteology can also determine an individual's ancestry, race or ethnicity. Historically, humans were typically grouped into three outdated race groups: caucasoids, mongoloids and negroids. However, this classification system is growing less reliable due to interancestrial marriages increases and markers become less defined. Determination of ancestry is controversial, but can give an understandable label to define the ancestry of an unidentified body or skeleton.

Crossrail Project
One example of osteology and its various applications is illustrated by the Crossrail Project. An endeavor by the city of London to expand their railway system inadvertently uncovered 25 human skeletons at Charterhouse Square in 2013. Although archaeological excavation of the skeletons temporarily halted further advances in the railway system, they have given way to new, possibly revolutionary, discoveries in the field of archaeology.

These 25 skeletal remains, along with many more that were found in further searches, are believed to be from the mass graves dug to bury the millions of victims of the Black Death in the 14th century. Archaeologists and forensic scientists have used osteology to examine the condition of the skeletal remains, to help piece together the reason why the Black Death had such a detrimental effect on the European population. It was discovered that most of the population was in generally poor health to begin with. Through extensive analysis of the bones, it was discovered that many of the inhabitants of Great Britain were plagued with rickets, anemia, and malnutrition. There has also been frequent evidence that much of the population had traces of broken bones from frequent fighting and hard labor.

This archaeological project has been named the Crossrail Project. Archaeologists will continue to excavate and search for remains to help uncover missing pieces of history. These advances in our understanding of the past will be improved by the study of other skeletons buried in the same area.

title: Osteology


text:
Talk:Abdul-Satar al-Bahadli

Untitled
Delete this one, and keep the Lynndie England page, and show what hypocrites you are.

title: Talk:Abdul-Satar al-Bahadli


text:
Pana Wave

The Pana-Wave Laboratory (パナウェーブ研究所) is a Japanese new religious group or "Shinshūkyō". Estimates of membership range from several hundred to 1,200.

Origin
Pana-Wave is an offshoot of a religious group called Chino-Shoho ("True Law of Chino") based in Shibuya, Tokyo, founded by a woman called Yuko Chino in 1977 and combining elements of Christianity, Buddhism and New Age doctrines.

In the mid-1980s, members calling themselves the "scientific faction", and warning of the evils of electromagnetic waves (which the group claimed were causing catastrophic environmental destruction and climate change) built the Pana-Wave Laboratory in Fukui Prefecture in an area they believed was less at risk from electromagnetic pollution. Members started to dress only in white in the mid-1990s, in the belief that this would protect them from harmful "scalar electromagnetic waves", which they claimed were being used against them by communists to try to kill their leader.

In 1994 the group formed a convoy of white vans which traveled around rural Japan searching for a place least at risk from harmful electromagnetic radiation and away from power lines, and setting up camp in remote locations for months on end and covering everything in white. They also took their leader Chino when she was ill with cancer into the mountains of Japan to search for a safe place where waves couldn't harm her anymore. They believed that if the waves got to their leader that all of mankind would all at once be destroyed.

Incidents in 2003
They first attracted attention in March 2003, when they attempted (and failed) to capture Tama-chan, an Arctic seal which had become a national celebrity in Japan since showing up in Tama River in Tokyo the previous year. The group believed that the seal had been led astray by electromagnetic waves, and claimed that doomsday would somehow be averted if the seal was returned to Arctic waters. They had even built two swimming pools, lined in white, in a compound in Yamanashi Prefecture in which to hold the seal until it could be transferred to the Arctic.

The group made national headlines in April when the convoy was ordered by police to move on from a road in Gifu Prefecture and refused, resulting in a stand-off which was reported in the national media. Pana-Wave alleged that a close encounter with an undiscovered 10th planet, predicted for 15 May that year, would cause the Earth's poles to flip over and lead to catastrophic earthquakes and tsunamis which would destroy most of humankind, and that they were looking for a safe location to ride out the catastrophe. TV images showed members dressed completely in white, complete with white hoods, surgical masks and white boots. Their vehicles were decorated with swirl patterns which they believed neutralised the invisible waves, and even the steering wheel was covered in white plaster. Nearby trees, bushes and crash barriers were also covered in white fabric. TV crews were first shunned by members who feared that TV cameras were emitting harmful waves, but were later allowed closer as long as they covered themselves and their equipment in white material.

This camp was eventually broken up by three hundred police, some in riot gear, who threatened to arrest them for obstructing traffic. The convoy moved on, setting up camp intermittently, but many in Japan were unnerved by the group, which evoked memories of Aum Shinrikyo, a religious terrorist group which carried out the deadly sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995, and the convoy continued being turned away from village after village. In the lead-up to the supposed doomsday, some one hundred riot police and TV crew followed the highly photogenic convoy around rural Japan for several weeks to keep tabs on their activities.

On 14 May, the day before the predicted doomsday, police raided twelve locations associated with the group on the pretext of minor vehicle registration offences. However, nothing was found which suggested that they posed a danger to society.

When the May 15 doomsday passed with nothing more serious than a minor earthquake in Tokyo which injured one boy who fell off his bed and broke an arm, a member thought to be Chino's second-in-command made a statement that they believed that they had miscalculated the date, and a new date of May 22 was set. However, as this date again passed without incident, media attention faded and the group sank back into obscurity.

On 25 October 2006, Chino died aged 72.

title: Pana Wave


text:
GNB

GNB may refer to:

 * Alpes–Isère Airport (IATA code: GNB), a French international airport serving Grenoble
 * G. N. Balasubramaniam (1910–1965, also "GNB"), Indian Carnatic singer
 * Goliath National Bank, a fictional business in the American sitcom, How I Met Your Mother
 * Good News Bible, an English translation of the Christian bible
 * GNB, a fictional television network in the American television sitcom Less than Perfect
 * Granby–Grand County Airport (FAA LID code: GNB), general aviation airport outside Granby, Colorado
 * Venezuelan National Guard, a gendarmerie component of the National Armed Forces of Venezuela
 * gNodeB (Next-Generation Node B), a 5G base station

title: GNB


text:
User:Hoshie/GoodNews

I was first exposed to the Good News Bible about 11 years ago. At the time, I was not a believer. I was simply a young guy living life. I had Bibles; (four were the Authorised Version, one NIV, and one Living Bible) but to me, the Bible was just one more interesting book on the shelf to read. That was until a family trip I took in late 1993. During the trip, I stayed at a family member’s house. At that house they had a box of Good News Bibles. They gave me one to read during my stay. Reading the GNB made me realise that the Bible was a special book and not just one more book on the shelf. Because of the GNB, I started to read the Bible more. A year later, I became a Christian. The Christmas after my salvation, I got a copy of the GNB. To this day, I value and cherish the GNB.

title: User:Hoshie/GoodNews


text:
Talk:Lynndie England

Ethnicity

 * Does anyone know what England's ancestry is? Most people with the surname of England are of Irish origin.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Who cares? 201.231.81.83 (talk) 00:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Jeanne Boleyn cares. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.251.46 (talk) 01:34, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

So no one cares? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.88.56 (talk) 08:54, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I care. 159.14.232.34 (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

What's wrong with you that you care who cares? This is history, information for intelligent people. Therefore intelligent historians should care. Now can you die in peace?  Hilar leo  Hey, L.E.O. 05:32, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Prison
Is she out of jail? If so, when was she released? Czolgolz (talk) 13:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

- 3 years is not enough. How could they do that to other living beings?! i say life time imprisonment. or at least ten years —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.28.204.153 (talk) 14:03, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

WP:BLP
Please note WP:BLP. It may be time to remove the most graphic material from this BLP, in favour of a short summary, and link instead to Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, incorporating any unique material there. Jayen 466 23:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't think more than one of the Abu Ghraib pictures needs to be on this page.Totorotroll (talk) 13:39, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Prostitute Hobo
Can someone explain this reference in the opening sentence - which does not appear to be supported anywhere in the text?Irish Melkite (talk) 15:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

 * This kind of vandalism has always been a problem here. I removed the phrase, although I'm now having some regrets, as it illustrates the times we live in rather well.
 * Critics of U.S. policy have some need to express their opposition to Abu Ghraib and GTMO as strongly as possible. I think it comes from the fact that they're rather feckless when their fascist friends use real torture, and so they must overcompensate to reestablish an appearance of human rights bona fides whenever a scandal like this comes along.
 * -- Randy2063 (talk) 16:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

That kind of politically charged rhetoric, Randy, in unnecessary, and betrays bias. Let's keep things objective here, shall we? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.68 (talk) 15:33, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Randy2063 Sheezits that is a brilliant analysis! And you make the point very well. You've only overlooked one thing- you forget to mention how when rather feckless editors snd their fascist friends use real torture, they prefer to do so anonymously; and most will hide their behavior behind a sexually dysmorphic image  Hilar leo  Hey, L.E.O. 05:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Image galleries
Regarding: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lynndie_England&diff=385621505&oldid=385615861

Firstly Lynndie England served time there. When someone serves time at a prison, a photo of it is helpful (after all those places do change the way people behave!)

Secondly the gallery tag is needed. The photos are too crowded and clustered, and the Lynndie England article is not close to becoming a GA/FA yet (that is the time when gallery tags get ditched) - Until then, the tag should stay. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:30, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Discussion
Just a quick reminder that, regardless of what this woman has done, talk pages are for discussing changes to the article and are not a general forum for chatting about the topic. I don't want to remove random IP comments that are unhelpful and disruptive myself, so just bear in mind that comments like "the bitch deserves longer" just aren't welcome here. . . . Pascal (talk) 09:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC) fixed it for ya...
 * How about registered editors subscribing to the same point of view? BadaBoom (talk) 05:30, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Biography
"In July 2009, England released Tortured"

But she's not the author, or? Isn't it by some Gary S. Winkler? Rolf-Peter Wille (talk) 17:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Image Use
I could not find a Wikipedia rule for this but, I think the image with the leash should be removed. Similar images are mosaiced but this one clearly shows the prisoner's face. It can be replaced with the one used in Megan Ambuhl's page if necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.163.230.121 (talk) 20:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Misuse of Source on the "Evangelical" Claim
The actual source does not say she was an evangelical, but that Xavier Amador, the psychologist for England's lawyers, made that allegation. Thus I corrected the claim, making it agree with what the source says. (EnochBethany (talk) 05:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC))

External links modified
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Uncensored Photo
In this article, there is a photo of one of the prisoners that is uncensored. If it is to be consistent, then the genitalia in that image should be censored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.232.49 (talk) 00:09, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not censored. Rreagan007 (talk) 07:01, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Lynndie's Actions are seen totally out of context to reallity
Anyone familiar with the Military habit of 'Hazing' will know Lynndie's actions at the prison were tame compared with many Hazing scenes. Soldiers being beaten, urinated on, Marines being forced to fight bear knuckle on mud pools, others being thrown into cold baths and held under water. This happened often in North America and among European Armies. In one Russian Army Hazing incident a recruit was stripped naked and tired up in a stress position. He was so badly injured his testicles had to be removed. If everyone was held to the same account as Lynndie who had been involved in Hazing there would be thousands of Court Marshels from Moscow to San Francisco. People should just let her get on with her life. Johnwrd (talk) 06:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Good. So do you, Johnwrd, want to be beaten, urinated on, stripped naked, etc. And then just let go on with your life?

Oh, you do not?

Why, it is quite tame, as you say, compared to e.g. your Russian example. Or better yet, to ancient Assyria: none of them silly "court marshels" back then. Zezen (talk) 20:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

War Criminal
Why isn't she described as a "war criminal"? All of the others involved are described as such on their respective pages. 🤔 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.11.165.116 (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Psychopathic Personality
Her mental examination should be added if available. She all but certain to meets the major diagnostic criteria of psychopathy. Alicanberkman (talk) 23:01, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

The state of consensus (or lack thereof) on starting the lead with "(Subject) is a convicted war criminal..."
For sixteen years from 2004 to 2020, the lead of this article did not include describing the subject as a "convicted war criminal." An IP editor added that in May 2020, and it has been removed and re-added a number of times since then. The fact that it may have been in the article for some number of months at a time does not create a consensus for inclusion, and suggesting that editors must get consensus to remove it first is a misrepresentation of how consensus works on Wikipedia. Quite the contrary, we normally require consensus to be established for inclusion of something that is contentious, not its exclusion, especially with regard to WP:BLPs, which are to be written conservatively.

Wikipedia's List of convicted war criminals has a long list of BLPs for subjects who were convicted of war crimes. The majority of those BLPs do not contain an opening statement in the lead like "(Subject) is a convicted war criminal...", and many of those BLPs were for people convicted of serious crimes like murder and genocide. A BLP for a person who was convicted of less serious offenses like mistreating detainees is not an appropriate place to force in "convicted war criminal" in the opening of the lead, especially when there is zero discussion anywhere else in the article of the subject being primarily referred to or known as a "war criminal" in the sourcing. The second sentence of the lead is a far more balanced and appropriate description; it states England was "convicted in 2005 by Army courts-martial for mistreating detainees and other crimes in connection with the torture and prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad." That accurately and sufficiently explains to readers exactly what this subject is known for without resorting to a contentious opening label like "war criminal." Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 22:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

 * I think it is proper to note her conviction for war crimes in the intro. I am even fine with callind her "a convicted war criminal" in the intro. However, it should not be the very first sentence as if that was her entire life. Other war criminals who "played in a bigger league" compared to anyone involved in the Abu Ghraib atrocities, do not get that kind of treatment. Str1977 (talk) 17:40, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

 * It definitely should be included in the lead. It's what England is most notable for. I'm not sure why it matters that an IP user added it, or that it wasn't in the article for 16 years. IP users have the same rights as normal editors, and articles can change over time. While it had been added and removed a few times, I think it's fair to presume consensus given the fact that no editors had bothered to dispute its inclusion recently. The severity of England's crimes doesn't make the label any less apt. I'm not sure that just because other people have carried out genocide that it means England isn't suddenly a war criminal. It's not a contentious label, it's a matter of fact. As for the comparisons to other figures, "war criminal" isn't the first thing that comes my mind mind re. the likes of Hitler. It's no question he organised and carried out war crimes but I imagine most people would first think "leader of Nazi Germany" or something along those lines. Perhaps that might explain why it's not included in his lead, but nothing stopping editors adding it if they see fit. I can't say I really mind how it's mentioned in the England lead, whether "war criminal" or "convicted or war crimes" (I just felt it made sense to keep the wording in line with the other articles about the Abu Ghraib torturers/prisoner abusers/war criminals), but it should be included in one form or another.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ToeSchmoker (talk • contribs)

 * "I'm not sure why it matters that an IP user added it, or that it wasn't in the article for 16 years.
 * It merely matters in so far as it shows that the label was added recently and that there was never a consensus for it. Str1977 (talk) 16:29, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The consensus part I can perhaps understand but the editor being an IP editor is of no relevance. They are just as welcome as long-time established editors. That is however, a discussion for another day and more appropriate talk page. Yours, ToeSchmoker (talk) 19:23, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

 * You've misapplied WP:SILENT in this regard; WP:SILENT means that if no one disagrees, consensus can be presumed. Once you become aware there is disagreement, you also become aware that there was never consensus.  Appreciate the prominent examples given above (Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, etc).  Good that you noticed that "war crimes" do not appear in the leads of any of those BLPs.  More importantly, outside of their leads, in the rest of the entire body of text in the articles for Hitler, Stalin, and Zedong, where everything is fully sourced and fleshed out, how many times do the words "war crimes" appear?  Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 19:51, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for the heads-up. Not really sure where you're going with the whole Hitler/Stalin/Mao stuff. From a quick glance at the List of convicted war criminals, I see articles which do mention "war criminal" or some variation in the lead. I also see articles which do not mention "war criminal" or some variation in the lead. I'm not going to make claims or guesses of which one rules prevalent because 1) I don't see how it really matters and 2) I don't really want to spend my time doing that. The same goes for the Hitler/Stalin/Mao pages. I'm afraid I don't really have the time to check for you how many times "war crimes" appears in their articles but you can use the shortcut CTRL+F/Command+F to search for words on a page. That should help you. Yours, ToeSchmoker (talk) 18:19, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * CTRL-F shows there is zero mention of the term "war crimes" anywhere in the entire body content of those high profile BLPs. Does that surprise you?  If that fact that they are political leaders somehow puts them in a different category for you, then check out this example: Vasily Blokhin was a soldier who shot tens of thousands of helpless captured prisoners of war in the head by his own hand, yet the words "war crimes" appear nowhere in his Wikipedia BLP.  That puts in perspective how ridiculous it is to argue the lead of this BLP should begin with "England is a war criminal."  Wikipedia avoids contentious labels for a reason, as they actually push a particular POV that is not present in the characterizations of the reliable secondary sources, as if England is up there with the likes of notorious war criminals who murdered untold numbers of people.  Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 14:24, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't surprise me, as I later searched the Hitler article myself and too received no results. I'm not sure if Blokhin was convicted of any war crimes. Pretty certain I remember reading something about the ECHR describing the Katyn Massacre as a war crime, but I can't be too certain. Whether or not Blokhin was singled out, I do not know. Perhaps you could start a discussion for adding the label to his lead if you see fit, given his involvement. I digress. We are talking about Lynndie England, not the Soviet Union, Hitler, etc. Don't see why the label shouldn't be applied to England just because someone else has a higher body count. Not exactly some sliding scale, is it? The acts committed at Abu Ghraib were abhorrent. I certainly would rank her up there with the "notorious war criminals" because that's all she is notorious for in the first place. Highly doubt she would even meet GNG if she wasn't one. Reckon Blokhin would even if he hadn't shot a bunch of people in the head. Yours, ToeSchmoker (talk) 22:34, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The point is not that the label cannot be applied to Lynndie England but, given its absence from this other articles (which are however not whitewashing their subjects - well, Mao is a bit), it is not of the utmost necessity here, with a relatively minor war criminal. In the end, the question is how to include it. It should be in a non-circumstantial way and without reducing the entire person to simply being a war criminal. Str1977 (talk) 16:29, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

 * For now we should include "prosecuted and convicted of the war crime of mistreating detainees" and not include "is a war criminal". In BLPs we should always err on the side of not reducing a living human being to a single negative label. There's no deadline. —valereee (talk) 18:54, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lynndie England


text:
Circle changeup

In baseball, a circle changeup (also called the okay changeup, related to the thumb and index finger touching) or circle change is a pitch thrown with a grip that includes a circle formation, hence the name circle changeup. The circle is formed by making a circle with the index finger, holding the thumb at the bottom of the ball parallel to the middle finger and holding the ball far out in the hand. The ball is thrown turning the palm out (pronating the forearm).

Throwing mechanics
A circle change can also be used to provide movement like a two seam fastball but without the stress placed on the arm by a traditional screwball. By placing the index and ring fingers slightly to the inside (that is, towards the thumb) of the ball and sharply pronating the forearm at release, a pitcher can make the ball move downward and inside. Pitchers with smaller hands will only place the index finger slightly to the inside (that is, towards the thumb) of the ball. A left-handed pitcher's circle change will break down and away from a right-handed batter. Effective circle changeups can reduce the platoon split a pitcher will experience.

To follow proper form, a pitcher releases the ball while keeping his wrist straight, then follows through fully. Additional change in velocity can be achieved by dragging the foot that would normally follow through fully with a fastball delivery. However, the most effective way to reduce the velocity of a changeup is by slightly reducing stride length. If the typical stride length for the pitcher's fastball is around 80-90% of pitcher's height, then the pitcher would need to reduce stride by 10-20%. By doing so, the pitcher eliminates the possibility of tipping off the pitch. Simply using a slower arm motion is undesirable, as it may tip off the batter, and will invariably result in less movement on the pitch. If this pitch is placed too high in the strike zone, it can be hit very hard. It is an effective pitch to throw early in the count to produce a groundball; it is not traditionally used to acquire a strikeout. By rotating the wrist (before the release) the pitcher can change the movement from resembling a fastball to resembling a curveball.

Like other changeups, an effective circle changeup must be thrown with an identical arm action to a fastball to avoid tipping off the batter.

Pitchers
Johan Santana, Pedro Martínez, Cole Hamels, Huston Street, Zack Greinke, Kyle Hendricks and Marco Estrada are pitchers who rely or relied heavily on their circle changeup. Former New York Mets closer John Franco was able to generate so much movement on his circle changeup that it mimicked a screwball. Atlanta Braves pitcher Tom Glavine was known for using the outside corner of the plate with his circle changeup, and his teammate, Greg Maddux, relied heavily on the circle change as an out pitch to both left-and right-handed batters. Minnesota Twins ace Frank Viola also used the circle changeup to great effect, as did former Atlanta Braves pitcher Charlie Leibrandt and Cincinnati Reds pitcher Mario Soto. Recently, Toronto Blue Jays pitcher Hyun-jin Ryu used a circle changeup efficiently throughout his first MLB season, throwing a circle changeup that was gripped using the index finger on the seam of the ball and the thumb on the side of the ball to "choke" the ball. According to his autobiography, Nolan Ryan also developed his own circle changeup to add another off-speed pitch without having to throw a slider (as sliders are believed to more frequently cause injuries).

title: Circle changeup


text:
Cephissus (Boeotia)

The Cephissus (Κήφισσος), called the Boeotian Cephissus to distinguish it from other rivers of the same name, or Kifisos (Βοιωτικός Κηφισός) is a river in central Greece. Its drainage basin is 1958 km2. The river rises at Lilaia in Phocis, on the northwestern slope of Mount Parnassus. It flows east through the Boeotian plain, passing the towns Amfikleia, Kato Tithorea and Orchomenos. It drained into Lake Copais, which was therefore also called the Cephisian Lake, until 1887, when the lake was eliminated in favor of agricultural land. An artificial outflow has been created to Lake Yliki (ancient Hylice), further east.

Hydrology
The Cephisus, a post-glacial river, never had sufficient flow deriving from drainage to establish a clear channel to the Gulf of Euboea. Its main flow was seasonal melt water, which collected in a three-lake system in the lowlands of Boeotia. First it entered Lake Copais, which was never more than a wetland a few feet deep. Today it has been totally drained for agriculture, revealing katabothra, or caves in the karst topography leading down to Lake Yliki as well as Bronze-Age works to stem the flow. There was never enough cross-section to totally drain the marsh, and no surface channels between lakes.

The underground paths to Lake Yliki are now open, causing its level to rise sufficiently to drown all traces of Bronze-age settlement in its valley. Lake Yliki connects by undergound channels to Lake Paralimni, which hangs over the Gulf of Euboea. It was never connected to the Gulf by surface channel, but some water is beleived to have escaped via the katabothra.

The artificial adjustment of the lake waters was an engineering problem of some magnitude in the 19th and early 20th centuries. In the later 20th century the waters of the two remaining lakes were preempted by the Athens aqueduct. The city of Athens had grown to include one-third of the population of Greece. Waters were being tapped from rivers as far away as western Greece through deep tunnels, which take advantage of the difference in altitude. The mountains are primarily of limestone, which is soft enough to present easy tunneling, whether under the Pindus mountains, beneath the passes of the Alps, or through the ridges of Italy.

Mythology
In Greek mythology, the river god Cephissus was associated with this river. Pausanias records a Theban tradition that the river Cephissus formerly flowed under a mountain and entered the sea until Heracles blocked the passage and diverted the water into the Orchomenian plain. Pausanias also says that the Lilaeans on certain days threw cakes and other customary items into the spring of the Cephissus and that they would reappear in the Castalian Spring.

History
The Cephissus valley is of strategic importance, connecting northern Greece via the passes of Mount Oeta and Mount Kallidromo (including Thermopylae) to southern Greece and the Gulf of Corinth. As a result, in the Frankish period a chain of forts and watchtowers was established along its course by the rulers of the Duchy of Athens.

title: Cephissus (Boeotia)


text:
Talk:Nasiriyah

Biased facts
What about all of the other thousand iraqi soldiers killed and wounded. Why does this article talk only about the death of american and italian militants? Don't you think it's important to give the two or more sides to facts, or at least not give any?

Ethnicities
Where does the information concerning that the area is "almost exclusively " inhabited by Shia Arabs come from? It's nonsens and should at least have a source!

Ambush
The Lynch vehicles were not ambushed. See Jessica_Lynch Jon Krakauer's book on Pat Tillman talks in detail about the battle in Nasiriyah. The vehicles went all the way through the city, realized they had made a mistake, turned around, and came though a second time. I dont think that qualifies as an ambush. Lynch's vehicle ran into the back of the vehicle in front when the vehicle in front tried to go around a blockade.

Population
As habitual in the english wikipedia, the population you gave is the districte population, NOT the city population. Unluckely the mistake was translated to many wikipedias. Please correct it. --88.16.141.255 (talk) 11:38, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Foundation
Date of fundation is quoted as 1840. But the real date is 1872. I corrected it.--88.16.141.255 (talk) 11:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Picture
Is there really no picture available that shows something more representative of this city than a water treatment plant?! --Tim Landscheidt (talk) 03:01, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Vandal or what else?
Is the last editorial effort by Hendi67 a vandalic action or just an in good faith error? Carlotm (talk) 19:00, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Vandalism. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

how do you purnouse it 104.194.20.173 (talk) 00:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

"Nah-zur-ee-yah" ⇒  SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 01:17, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nasiriyah


text:
Ramona (disambiguation)

Ramona is an 1884 novel by Helen Hunt Jackson.

Ramona may also refer to:

Arts and entertainment

 * Adaptations of Jackson's novel:
 * Ramona (1910 film), directed by D. W. Griffith
 * Ramona (1916 film), directed by Donald Crisp
 * Ramona (1928 film), directed by Edwin Carewe
 * Ramona (1936 film), directed by Henry King
 * Ramona (1946 film), directed by Victor Urruchua
 * Ramona (2000 TV series), a Mexican telenovela
 * The Ramona Pageant, a 1923 annual outdoor play depicting Jackson's novel
 * Ramona (novel series), by Beverly Cleary
 * Ramona (1988 TV series), a Canadian series based on Cleary's novels, starring Sarah Polley
 * Ramona Quimby, the title character of Cleary's books
 * Ramona (1961 film), a 1961 West German musical film directed by Paul Martin
 * "Ramona" (1928 song), a popular song from the 1928 film
 * "Ramona" (Dragon song), a 1982 song by Australian-New Zealand band Dragon
 * "Ramona", a song by Guster from Keep It Together
 * "Ramona", a song by The Ramones from Rocket to Russia
 * "To Ramona", a song by Bob Dylan from Another Side of Bob Dylan. (1964)
 * Ramona (2003 TV series), a Swedish miniseries starring Björn Bengtsson
 * Ramona (computer program), a fictional computer avatar created by Ray Kurzweil
 * SS Ramona, a fictional ship in the Tintin comic The Red Sea Sharks
 * Ramona Films, movie production company for the film The Disaster Artist (film)
 * Ramona Flowers, an American expatriate from the graphic novels Scott Pilgrim

People

 * Ramona (vocalist) (1909–1972), American 1930s cabaret singer and pianist
 * Ramona Band of Cahuilla Indians, in Riverside County, California, U.S.
 * Ramona Ferreira, Paraguayan journalist and feminist
 * Ramona Fradon (1926-2004), American comics artist
 * Comandante Ramona (1959-2006), Mexican guerrilla leader of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN)
 * Ramona Johari (1967–2005), Singaporean murder victim

Places

 * Ramona, Los Angeles County, California, an unincorporated community named after Jackson's novel
 * Ramona, San Diego County, California, an unincorporated community also named after Jackson's novel
 * Ramona Valley AVA, California wine region in San Diego County
 * Ramona Airport
 * Ramona, Kansas
 * Ramona, Oklahoma, a town named after Jackson's novel
 * Ramona, South Dakota

Highways

 * The San Bernardino Freeway, formerly called the Ramona Freeway.
 * Ramona Boulevard, a long street in Los Angeles County.

Other uses

 * Ramona (name), a given name
 * Ramona (sternwheeler 1892), a North American river vessel
 * Ramona passive sensor, a Czech passive sensor system

title: Ramona (disambiguation)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KathleenMalda

3-4 hits, depending on which search engine. There have been numerous public proposals, but as far as I know, none of the other, otherwise not notable, recipients have their own article. Her husband's article doesn't even point to this page, and the one page that does link to it doesn't mention the proposal. Niteowlneils 00:47, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep Delete: On second thoughts. It's not much of an article title, why not keep with slashdot? - Anyway search for Kathleen Fent Slashdot proposal for relevant links (I've added maiden name to article). --bodnotbod 00:53, May 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * "Briefly well-known"? Sounds like delete (possibly merging into another article). Andris 01:02, May 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Her husband is fairly well known, and his article basically already contains all the information in this article. Delete. -- Cyrius|&#9998 01:55, May 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Alcarillo 03:58, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, no content that isn't on the Rob Malda page, nor is there likely to be any. --Stormie 05:14, May 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wile E. Heresiarch 06:44, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Rob Malda. See others comments above. Dpbsmith 02:40, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable and famous. anthony (see warning) 16:00, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Redir to Rob Malda. He's famous. She's not. Andrewa 01:19, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * By what definition of famous do you say that? anthony (see warning) 10:07, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'll attempt a reply. I'm not using any particular definition, but the question suggests that you are. It might be helpful if you were to tell us what yours is. Andrewa 14:27, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * "Well or widely known" is the dictionary.com definition. Seems good enough for me.  Maybe you don't know how to put your particular definition into words, but surely you have one, or at least you are claiming to by saying that one person is famous and one isn't.  I was just wondering what criterion you were using to distinguish between the two, because they both seem equally famous to me. anthony (see warning) 15:52, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'll attempt a reply. It's not a matter of knowing how, it's more a matter of not seeing the need in terms of meaning and reference. I accept your definition. So, you seem to be saying that as many people know of Kathleen Malda as know of Rob Malda. I don't think that is supported by the current articles or the discussion here, but if you can back it up I'll change my vote. Does that help? Andrewa 20:45, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, I never said anything about the number of people who know of either. And I'm not trying to change your vote.  I was just wondering why you consider one famous and the other not.  But I guess you're not going to answer that. anthony (see warning)
 * Comment: I'll attempt a reply. I'm fascinated. How did your definition help the discussion? What purpose do you have in discussing this, if you're not interested in changing my vote? You're right in that I see no point in providing more reasons than I already have, they seem clear enough to me. Andrewa 06:38, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
 * My definition didn't help the discussion. You asked for it, so I provided it.  My main purpose in knowing why you consider one famous and the other not is curiousity.  I mean, what's the purpose of providing a reason if you're not going to explain what it means?  You could just as well have said "Rob Malda is sdflkjds and Kathleen Malda is not."  In addition, maybe I'll learn something.  Hell, maybe you'll change my vote. anthony (see warning)
 * Agreed. Redirect and delete.  She's simply not notable enough to warrant an article of her own. - Lucky 6.9 03:49, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. She's a frequent target of Slashdot trolls, who like to catalogue fanciful sexual escapades and generally put her down. Since the community has decided to cover Slashdot trolling in depth, I think we should keep this article to contribute to this goal. Crculver 14:31, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect or delete. I spend a bit of time on Slashdot myself, and while Rob Malda's online proposal to Kathleen  is an interesting pop culture phenomenon, Kathleen herself has posted only twice -- both times in reply to the proposal itself . --Robertb-dc 01:49, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Surely only having posted twice to slashdot is no reason to not have a wikipedia article. anthony (see warning)
 * Comment: I'll attempt a reply. No, it's not. The point I think is that two slashdot posts aren't enough to justify one. I think you may be affirming the consequent here. Andrewa 20:45, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
 * So mentioning the number of posts she's made is just a strawman argument? I'm certainly not affirming the consequent, as I'm not trying to prove anything. anthony (see warning)
 * Comment: (Still noting my warning too of course.) IMO it's not really a straw man in the sense described by the article on the topic, but it's similar, yes. Again I'm fascinated, what are you trying to do? Andrewa 06:38, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I was pointing out the fact that Robert gave no reason for deletion. anthony (see warning)
 * Keep. Just because someone is only midly famous is not enough to justify deletion, IMHO. Burgundavia 07:31, May 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect. Can be adequately covered in Rob Malda. No more noteworthy than any other well-known person's associates and relatives - yet. --Zigger 18:39, 2004 May 13 (UTC)
 * Redirect. Agree with above.  --ZeLonewolf 19:55, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Too insignificant for even a redirect.  The article on Rob Malda should cover his marital relations, children and so forth.  :) -- Stevietheman 01:39, 15 May 2004 (UTC)