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Fair value

In accounting, fair value is a rational and unbiased estimate of the potential market price of a good, service, or asset. The derivation takes into account such objective factors as the costs associated with production or replacement, market conditions and matters of supply and demand. Subjective factors may also be considered such as the risk characteristics, the cost of and return on capital, and individually perceived utility.

Market price
There are two schools of thought about the relation between the market price and fair value in any form of market, but especially with regard to tradable assets:
 * The efficient-market hypothesis asserts that, in a well organized, reasonably transparent market, the market price is generally equal to or close to the fair value, as investors react quickly to incorporate new information about relative scarcity, utility, or potential returns in their bids; see also Rational pricing.
 * Behavioral finance asserts that the market price often diverges from fair value because of various, common cognitive biases among buyers or sellers. However, even proponents of behavioral finance generally acknowledge that behavioral anomalies that may cause such a divergence often do so in ways that are unpredictable, chaotic, or otherwise difficult to capture in a sustainable profitable trading strategy, especially when accounting for transaction costs.

Market value
The latest edition of International Valuation Standards (IVS 2017), clearly distinguishes between fair value (now referred to as "equitable value"), as defined in the IVS, and market value, as defined in the IVS:

 * So as the term is generally used, Fair Value can be clearly distinguished from Market Value. It requires the assessment of the price that is fair between two specific parties taking into account the respective advantages or disadvantages that each will gain from the transaction. Although Market Value may meet these criteria, this is not necessarily always the case. Fair Value is frequently used when undertaking due diligence in corporate transactions, where particular synergies between the two parties may mean that the price that is fair between them is higher than the price that might be obtainable on the wider market. In other words Special Value may be generated. Market Value requires this element of Special Value to be disregarded, but it forms part of the assessment of Fair Value.

Accounting
In accounting, fair value reflects the market value of an asset (or liability) for which price on an active market may or may not be determinable. Under US GAAP (ASC 820 formerly FAS 157) and International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS 13), fair value is the price that would be received to sell an asset or paid to transfer a liability in an orderly transaction between market participants at the measurement date. This is used for assets whose carrying value is based on mark-to-market valuations; for assets carried at historical cost, the fair value of the asset is not recognized.
 * Determining fair value for an item traded on an active market such as a security (stock, bond, derivative, etc.), industrial commodity (natural gas, crude oil, copper, etc.) or agricultural commodity (sugar, wheat, pork cutouts, etc.) is straight forward. Fair value simply equals market value on the measurement date (see level one fair value below).
 * Determining fair value for an item (initially) sold on a market but not (subsequently) traded on an active market (a car, truck, machine, computer, dishwasher, etc.) is more difficult as it requires assessing not only the item's specifications, age and condition but also market conditions (see level two fair value below).
 * Determining fair value for an item neither (initially) sold on a market nor (subsequently) traded on an active market (for example a custom built production line or family residence) is much more difficult and requires assessing "unobservable inputs" (see level three fair value below).
 * An example of where fair value is very difficult to determine would be a college kitchen with a cost of $2 million which was built five years ago. If the owners wanted to put a fair value measurement on the kitchen it would be a subjective estimate because there is no active market for such items or items similar to it.
 * In another example, if ABC Corporation purchased a two-acre tract of land in 1980 for $1 million, then a historical-cost financial statement would still record the land at $1 million on ABC's balance sheet. If XYZ purchased a similar two-acre tract of land in 2005 for $2 million, then XYZ would report an asset of $2 million on its balance sheet. Even if the two pieces of land were virtually identical, ABC would report an asset with one-half the value of XYZ's land; historical cost is unable to identify that the two items are similar. This problem is compounded when numerous assets and liabilities are reported at historical cost, leading to a balance sheet that may be greatly undervalued. If, however, ABC and XYZ reported financial information using fair-value accounting, then both would report an asset of $2 million. The fair-value balance sheet provides information for investors who are interested in the current value of assets and liabilities, not the historical cost.

Fair value measurements (United States markets)
The Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) issued Statement of Financial Accounting Standards No. 157: Fair Value Measurements ("FAS 157") in September 2006 to provide guidance about how entities should determine fair value estimations for financial reporting purposes. FAS 157 broadly applies to financial and nonfinancial assets and liabilities measured at fair value under other authoritative accounting pronouncements. However, application to nonfinancial assets and liabilities was deferred until 2009. Absence of one single consistent framework for applying fair value measurements and developing a reliable estimate of a fair value in the absence of quoted prices has created inconsistencies and incomparability. The goal of this framework is to eliminate the inconsistencies between balance sheet (historical cost) numbers and income statement (fair value) numbers.

Along with all other standards, FAS 157 was codified FASB Accounting Standards Codification as (ASC) Topic 820 (Fair Value Measurement), which defines fair value as "The price that would be received to sell an asset or paid to transfer a liability in an orderly transaction between market participants at the measurement date." This is sometimes referred to as "exit value". In the futures market, fair value is the equilibrium price for a futures contract. This is equal to the spot price after taking into account compounded interest (and dividends lost because the investor owns the futures contract rather than the physical stocks) over a certain period of time. On the other side of the balance sheet the fair value of a liability is the amount at which that liability could be incurred or settled in a current transaction.

Topic 820 emphasizes the use of market inputs in estimating the fair value for an asset or liability. Quoted prices, credit data, yield curve, etc. are examples of market inputs described by Topic 820. Quoted prices are the most accurate measurement of fair value; however, many times an active market does not exist so other methods have to be used to estimate the fair value on an asset or liability. Topic 820 emphasizes that assumptions used to estimate fair value should be from the perspective of an unrelated market participant. This necessitates identification of the market in which the asset or liability trades. If more than one market is available, Topic 820 requires the use of the "most advantageous market". Both the price and costs to do the transaction must be considered in determining which market is the most advantageous market.

 * Specifically ASC 820-10-35-24A outlines valuation techniques (approaches): the market approach, cost approach, and income approach. The inputs for the techniques, in hierarchical (ASC 820-10-35-37) order, are broken down into three levels.

 * Level 1 inputs (ASC 820-10-35-40 to 46) "quoted prices (unadjusted) in active markets for identical assets or liabilities that the reporting entity can access at the measurement date." This implies that the item being evaluated is traded on an active market. An example would be a stock trade on the New York Stock Exchange. Information at this level is based on direct observations of transactions involving the identical assets or liabilities being valued, not assumptions, and thus offers superior reliability. However, relatively few items, especially physical assets, actually trade in active markets. If available, a quoted market price in an active market for identical assets or liabilities should be used. To use this level, the entity must have access to an active market for the item being valued. In many circumstances, quoted market prices are unavailable. If a quoted market price is not available, preparers should make an estimate of fair value using the best information available in the circumstances. The resulting fair value estimate would then be classified in Level Two or Level Three.

 * Level 2 inputs (ASC 820-10-35-47 to 51A) "inputs other than quoted prices included within Level 1 that are observable for the asset or liability, either directly or indirectly." This is valuation based on market observables. FASB acknowledged that active markets for identical assets and liabilities are relatively uncommon and, even when they do exist, they may be too thin to provide reliable information. To deal with this shortage of direct data, the board provided a second level of inputs that can be applied in three situations: The first involves less-active markets for identical assets and liabilities; this category is ranked lower because the market consensus about value may not be strong. The second arises when the owned assets and owed liabilities are similar to, but not the same as, those traded in a market. In this case, the reporting company has to make some assumptions about what the fair value of the reported items might be in a market. The third situation exists when no active or less-active markets exist for similar assets and liabilities, but some observable market data is sufficiently applicable to the reported items to allow the fair values to be estimated.

 * For instance, the price of an option based on Black–Scholes and market implied volatility. Within this level, fair value is estimated using a valuation technique. Significant assumptions or inputs used in the valuation technique requires the use of inputs that are observable in the market. Examples of observable market inputs include: quoted prices for similar assets, interest rates, yield curve, credit spreads, prepayment speeds, etc. In addition, assumptions used in estimating fair value must be assumptions that an unrelated party would use in estimating fair value. Notably, FASB indicates that assumptions enter into models that use Level 2 inputs, a condition that reduces the precision of the outputs (estimated fair values), but nonetheless produces reliable numbers that are representationally faithful, verifiable and neutral.

 * Level 3 inputs (ASC 820-10-35-52 to 54A) "unobservable inputs for the asset or liability." Both level 1 and level 2 inputs are objective, in that they are observable. In contrast, level 3 inputs are subjective, often relying on an entity's own, internally generated data. "A reporting entity shall develop unobservable inputs using the best information available in the circumstances, which might include the reporting entity’s own data." (ASC 820-10-35-54A).  However, although the entity uses its own data, the estimate must continue to reflect how an unrelated market participant would use this unobservable data to determine fair value. Specifically: "unobservable inputs shall reflect the assumptions that market participants would use when pricing the asset or liability, including assumptions about risk" (ASC 820-10-35-53). Thus, when using its own, internally generated data, an entity must proceed in an unbiased and neutral way, rather than trying to cast the data in the best (or worst) possible light. Consequently, whenever level 3 inputs are used, both the company's management and independent auditor must take great care to not allow bias to color their assessments.

 * FASB explains that “observable inputs” are gathered from sources other than the reporting company and that they are expected to reflect assumptions made by market participants. In contrast, “unobservable inputs” are not based on independent sources but on “the reporting entity’s own assumptions about the assumptions market participants would use.” The entity may only rely on internal information if the cost and effort to obtain external information is too high. In addition, financial instruments must have an input that is observable over the entire term of the instrument. While internal inputs are used, the objective remains the same: estimate fair value using assumptions a third party would consider in estimating fair value. Also known as mark to management. Despite being “assumptions about assumptions,” Level 3 inputs can provide useful information about fair values (and thus future cash flows) when they are generated legitimately and with best efforts, without any attempt to bias users’ decisions.

ASC 820-10-55 provides additional guidance on how to apply the valuation techniques (approaches).

 * A market approach "uses prices and other relevant information generated by market transactions involving identical or comparable (that is, similar) assets, liabilities, or a group of assets and liabilities" Both level one and level two inputs can be used with this approach.

 * A cost approach "reflects the amount that would be required currently to replace the service capacity of an asset (often referred to as current replacement cost)." While level 1 inputs could be used, level 2 inputs are more common. For example, a company could estimate the fair value of a three year old vehicle by evaluating the blue book price for similar, three year old vehicles. Likewise, level 3 inputs could also be used. For example, a company could estimate the fair value of a production line by estimating the cost of replacing that production line by adding up parts (including purchased equipment and machines), labor, services such as designers, and all other costs associated with acquiring this type of asset.

 * An income approach "converts future amounts (for example, cash flows or income and expenses) to a single current (that is, discounted) amount." Unlike the previous two techniques, the income approach relies almost exclusively on level three inputs (although exception include models such as the Black-Scholes-Merton or lattice models which also use level 1 and 2 inputs).  Converting future cash flows to a current amount requires discounting.  In general, there are two methods that can be used: the risk adjusted discount rate method (a.k.a. discount rate adjustment technique) and a risk adjusted cash flow method (a.k.a. expected cash flow or Con 7 method, named after Statement of Financial Accounting Concepts 7 which introduced it into US GAAP). In addition, ASC 820-10-55-3G.c also mentions the multiperiod excess earnings method.  Of all the valuation techniques, this is the most subjective as it requires estimating what earnings would be if an asset (most often an intangible asset) had not been acquired, comparing them to earnings if the asset had been acquired, and discounting the difference (taking into account the associated risks).

The FASB, after extensive discussions, has concluded that fair value is the most relevant measure for financial instruments. In its deliberations of Statement 133, the FASB revisited that issue and again renewed its commitment to eventually measuring all financial instruments at fair value.

FASB published a staff position brief on October 10, 2008, in order to clarify the provision in case of an illiquid market.

International standards (IFRS)
IFRS 13, Fair Value Measurement, was adopted by the International Accounting Standards Board on May 12, 2011. IFRS 13 provides guidance for how to perform fair value measurement under IFRS and became effective on January 1, 2013. The guidance has been converged with US GAAP. IFRS defines fair value as "The price that would be received to sell an asset or paid to transfer a liability in an orderly transaction between market participants at the measurement date." As a result, IFRS 13 requires entities to consider the effects of credit risk when determining a fair value measurement, e.g. by calculating a credit valuation adjustment (CVA) or debit valuation adjustment (DVA) on their derivatives; see

While ASC 820 and IFRS 15 have been converged and so provide comparable guidance, US GAAP and IFRS apply this guidance in different ways. For example, under US GAAP (ASC 360), entities are not allowed present any property, plant or equipment at fair value. Under IFRS, IAS 16 allows entities to choose between a cost (IAS 16.30) and revaluation (IAS 16.31 to 42) model. If an entity applies the revaluation model, it will measure and report its property plant and equipment at fair value on its balance sheet. It will report the changes in fair value in comprehensive income and accumulate them as a "revaluation surplus" in equity. With respect to investment property (real property held for rent or sale), IFRS takes an additional step. IAS 40.32 requires all entities to measure investment property at fair value. An entity may choose to report this fair value on its balance sheet (fair value model) or disclose it in the footnotes (cost model). If the entity chooses to apply the fair value model, "A gain or loss arising from a change in the fair value of investment property shall be recognised in profit or loss for the period in which it arises." (IAS 40.35). Depending on the choices made, the financial results of an entity applying IFRS may significantly differ from the financial results of an otherwise comparable entity applying US GAAP.

title: Fair value


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Master of Magic

Master of Magic is a single-player, fantasy turn-based 4X strategy game in which the player plays as a wizard attempting to dominate two linked worlds. From a small settlement, the player manages resources, builds cities and armies, and researches spells, growing an empire and fighting the other wizards.

The game was developed by Simtex and published by MicroProse for MS-DOS in 1994. Sometimes described as a fantasy-themed spin-off of classic Civilization or sci-fi themed Master of Orion, it has proven to be quite enduring, becoming a cult classic in its niche of fantasy-themed 4X strategy games. While it never received a direct sequel, a number of other games published since have been described as inspired by it, and reviewers and players remain divided on whether any has succeeded at recapturing the feeling and gameplay of the original.

Master of Magic's early versions had many bugs, and were heavily criticized by reviewers. The last official patch version 1.31, released in March 1995, fixed many of the bugs and implemented updates to the AI. The patched version was received more positively by reviewers. The game was re-released in 2010 with Windows support on GOG.com. Slitherine Ltd. now owns the IP from Atari and has added a DLC, as well as releasing the game on Steam.

Gameplay

A world is randomly generated every time the player starts a new game, with the player being able to adjust land size, magic strength, game difficulty and other features. The player can customize the skills, spell choices and appearance of their wizard, choosing one of 14 races for the starting city.

The gameplay starts with units exploring their surroundings, pushing back the strategic map's fog of war. During exploration, the player defeats monsters that are guarding treasure, finds the best locations for new cities, discovers the Towers of Wizardry that link the game's two planes of Arcanus and Myrror and locates the cities of enemy wizards.

Apart from the Player's first city, cities are established by settlers, then upgraded by adding buildings, which in turn improves the economy, availability and strength of units, city's growth rate, mana and economics. Cities produce food, gold and mana. Military units require at least food and often gold upkeep; spellcasters consume mana in combat. While the player is exploring and colonizing new territories, new magical spells are researched. Spells can be used during or outside of combat.

Master of Magic splits spells into six schools of magic: Life Magic, which heals and protects; its antithesis Death Magic, which drains life and creates undead; Chaos Magic, which warps targets and spews destructive energies; Nature Magic, which controls the weather and turns it against the enemy; Sorcery, which manipulates the air and subverts the effects of the other schools; and Arcane Magic, which is a general school and free for all. Players select spellbooks from desired schools, allowing them to research and cast spells from said schools. The number of spells a wizard can learn from each school is dependent on the number of books chosen for that school. The game's five schools of magic have been inspired by the card game Magic the Gathering.

Additionally, the player can select traits in addition to spellbooks. Traits provide special bonuses throughout the game.

There are global spells that affect targets throughout the world. Unit or city enhancement spells can boost the potential of its target, such as increasing the movement and attack speed of units, enabling them to regenerate wounds and increasing the power of their attacks. Wizards can summon creatures related to their schools. The player can research combat spells, which include direct attacks, debuffs and traps. The final spell learned is the Arcane Spell of Mastery, which takes enormous resources to research and cast but instantly wins the game for the casting player.

A tactical battle begins when two armies occupy the same square on the global map. The battle takes place in an isometric map that expands the contested square in detail (including fortifications and terrain aspects that affect movement and combat). The two forces are arrayed at opposite edges of the map and the battle is conducted in a series of turns. One side achieves victory by eliminating the other or forcing it to flee the combat; a draw occurs if both sides remain after 50 turns.

The player can recruit 86 unit types from the cities to build their armies. A few (such as swordsmen and archers) are generic, while others (such as troll shamans) feature racial bonuses (such as regeneration or flight) that make them more valuable or more powerful than generic units. Most city-recruited units are unique to the city's region or terrain and have special abilities like magic use, ranged attacks or an ability to always strike first in combat. Mercenaries can seek employment with famous wizards, allowing them to possibly recruit units which their cities are unable to produce. The player can even summon fantastic creatures, such as demon lords or enormous creatures like dragons. The variety of units with unique special abilities offer many options when building an army.

Many distinct heroes are available for players to hire or summon. Heroes have special abilities that boost the efficiency of other military units (like bestowing offensive or defensive bonuses) or allow the hero to perform special attacks, grant them immense strength or toughness, among other abilities.

Plot and setting

Master of Magic takes place across two worlds, Arcanus and Myrror. Arcanus is a land much like the Earth, with climatic zones and varied terrain like forests, oceans, grasslands and deserts. Myrror is a parallel world to Arcanus, featuring heavier magic use and fantastic flora, minerals and fauna not found on Arcanus. The two worlds are physically linked to each other by special portals called Towers of Wizardry, allowing units to travel between worlds.

Magic nodes—which are valuable sources of magical power—are scattered throughout both worlds. The worlds are populated by traditional fantasy races like elves and halflings, plus races which were introduced early to gaming via Simtex's games, like the insectoid Klackons.

Reception
Next Generation reviewed the PC version of the game, rating it three stars out of five, and stated that "beginner players may have some trouble with the game's high level of complexity and often hard-to-follow instructions, but veterans will be satisfied".

Master of Magic was a nominee for Computer Gaming World's 1994 "Strategy Game of the Year" award, which ultimately went to X-COM: UFO Defense.

Early versions of Master of Magic were riddled with bugs and had a terrible artificial intelligence (AI), frustrating a lot of reviewers with its crashes and ignorant enemies. Despite that, it was announced as the Runner-up Strategy Game of the Year by Strategy Plus magazine, coming in behind its older sibling Master of Orion. A few patches later, version 1.2 corrected a lot of the bugs and added some tweaks, but there were still game-crashing moments. Bill Cranston of GameBytes also savaged other aspects of the game, constantly comparing it against the 1991 hit Civilization.

He said the gameplay was mostly repetitive clickings of the "end turn" button throughout several hundred eventless turns. Other complaints on his list also include Master of Magics magic not being as crucial to winning the game in a straightforward manner, as compared to Civilizations technology. The potential of racial strife was less than fulfilled as military units of different races can co-exist harmoniously even though subjugated cities of a different race can rise up in rebellion. Coming Soon Magazine! however reviewed the same version and called it a must-have for strategy fans with great gameplay and many spells.

Master of Magic version 1.31 was released in March 1995. It rectified many more bugs and implemented a few changes to the AI. IGN reviewed this version of Master of Magic in 2002 and stated that the ability to customize the player's character, random maps and vast variety of spells and creatures give an immense replayability to the game. The dual planes concept and intense tactical battles spiced with spells, encouraged them to name the latest version of the game as the best fantasy strategy game ever made.

Computer Gaming World called this version fantastic and named it as #141 of their "150 Best Games of All Time". Similarly, IGN placed the game as one of their "Top 25 Games of All Time" in 2000 and "Top 100 Games of All Time" in 2003, praising it for its innovative simultaneous play of two worlds. Tracy Baker wrote in Computer Gaming Classics named it as a strategy game classic for its success in implementing the mechanics of Master of Orion in a fantasy setting.

Master of Magic was inducted into GameSpy's Hall of Fame in 2000, with the network describing it as a visually stunning game with "enduring replayability", due to its randomness and large variety of spells. GameSpy credited the game with being more popular than Master of Orion and responsible for making Steve Barcia and Simtex household names. Computer Gaming World inducted Master of Magic into its Hall of Fame in 2005. The game has been referenced as a representative product of MicroProse in gaming reviews. The writer Alan Emrich, responsible for coining the "4X genre" term, has placed Master of Magic in the top position on his "Games of All Time" list in 2001.

In 2012, a retrospective review of Eurogamer concluded: "It hasn't yet been surpassed by any other fantasy 4X game. Curiously enough, Master of Magic remains the best example of its kind".

Legacy
In 1997, the game was ported to PlayStation with various graphical improvements, retitled Civizard: Majutsu no Keifu (シヴィザード 魔術の系譜). This was a Japan-only release by Asmik (developed by Opera House).

After the closure of developer Simtex in 1997 and the end of official support the game's community took up the support with community patches to fix remaining bugs and unbalances. As of 2020 there is patch v1.52 by the community available.

In 1997, MicroProse released a Master of Magic "Jr." scenario, using the Civilization II engine, as part of the Civ II: Fantastic Worlds expansion for Civilization II. Steve Barcia stated that Master of Magic II would be complete by spring 1998, with new features, spells, monsters and a spell designer included, but Simtex was closed down later that year. MicroProse revealed that it would be developing the sequel on its own, but this plan was canceled when the company's financial situation deteriorated in 2000. Despite the later emergence of games that resemble Master of Magic (such as the Age of Wonders series), reviewers like Kyle Ackerman and GameSpot editor Andrew Park have stated that the game's essence has not yet been re-captured.

Due to Master of Magic 's impact on the fantasy "turn-based strategy" genre, the Age of Wonders series, which some considered almost identical in terms of gameplay, has received comparisons in reviews of the latter. However, Lennart Sas, the lead designer for Age of Wonders, argues against this. Other series that have been also compared to Master of Magic, including Dominions series from Illwinter Game Design.

Further prospects of a sequel surfaced with the announcement that companies Quicksilver Software and Stardock had obtained the rights to undertake such a venture. These companies were unable to reach an accord with Atari, who had negotiated complete control of marketing the property. Game Informer reported in 2007 that Stardock aimed to release a remake of Master of Magic in 2009. However, a Stardock employee, Aaron Rister, clarified in the company's own forums that Game Informer was a mistaken reference to a 2010 game Elemental: War of Magic.

In April 2013, Wastelands Interactive launched a successful Kickstarter bid to fund the game Worlds of Magic which is meant as a spiritual successor to Master of Magic, and designer George Edward Purdy who worked on Master of Orion and Master of Magic joined the team. Worlds of Magic officially launched at retail outlets and on Steam according to the gaming news site, Gamasutra on March 19, 2015. Sometimes also known as Worlds of Magic: Planar Conquest, was released for a number other platforms over the next few years, to mixed reviews.

In February 2020, an expansion pack was released as downloadable content titled Master of Magic: Caster of Magic. It started development as a user-made mod.

A remake to Master of Magic by MuHa Games was announced in August 2019 and released under the same title in December 2022. It received generally positive reviews.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Master of Magic


text:
Talk:Sublanguage

[Untitled]
This whole article seems to be a little odd and definitely not NPOV. First, without a definition of complete language, this really doesn't make clear what a sublanguage is. Second, is it really true that sublanguage only relates to database theory, as the article implies? Finally, can it be accurately stated that Oracle is the only source for a complete language based on the SQL "sublanguage"? I should think Microsoft, IBM, Sybase, and several other companies would disagree with this statement. -- Jeff Q 09:42, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I can now say with some confidence that this article is very POV, slanted toward a interpretation that serves Oracle Corporation's marketing interests. The use of the term sublanguage in database theory seems to have originated with E.F. Codd in his paper "A Relational Model of Data for Large Shared Data Banks" (Communications of the ACM, Volume 13, Issue 6, June 1970). He apparently uses the term to describe a language incomplete from a mathematical point of view, not one that needs extra "features" to make it useful, as the Oracle description would suggest.
 * Furthermore, sublanguage is not exclusively a database term. I easily found several uses in information theory, relating to subsets of natural language for more effective machine translation, as well as non-computing uses like linguistic subsets of human languages and even as a term for industry-related jargon (e.g., "immunology sublanguage").
 * Therefore, I have two conclusions. First, this article should be generalized. I don't know enough about database or information theory to expound correctly upon their proper use of sublanguage, but I can provide a general definition:
 * A sublanguage is a subset of a human language or computer language, defined either by a specific vocabulary and grammar (e.g., the SQL database sublanguage) or by restrictive description (e.g., an "immunology sublanguage").
 * It could certainly use some work.
 * The second conclusion is that this article should be moved to and formatted for Wiktionary, as it is a basic definition. I have added the Wiktionary tag to signal this. I have left the factual dispute tag for now. I would like people to comment on what I've come up with here before I change the text. — Jeff Q 06:14, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Rubbish
From googling I've seen this term used in a semi-illiterate fashion on computer science courses, but in terms of computer language theory it seems to be utter gibberish. The example given, SQL, is a complete language in and of itself. Nothing provided by a RDBMS alters that. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 06:35, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Rewrite
I've rewritten the thing from scratch with reference to Codd's usage. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:22, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Tony! I was despairing of ever getting a solid article out of this mess. — Jeff Q (talk) 11:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sublanguage


text:
Talk:Abu Ghraib prison/Archive 1

local or offsite picture hosting
There should probably be external links to sites hosting the relevant pictures. Anyone know of any? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 16:39, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * I disagree, I've seen that currently there is no Web site hosting all of these pictures. CBS has access just to the videos, and they are likely to pull them out or start charging for seeing them. Until there are two or more places were all of these photos are hosted, I think it's better to keep them here. ChaTo 16:56, Apr 30, 2004

 * I don't think Dante was saying we should take the photos down. I think he was just saying we should add a link. I added a link to the Memory Hole, which will keep them up, free, indefinitely. Quadell 17:57, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * To clarify, my comment was written before the pictures were up. I'm not suggesting we remove them. I just didn't realize at first that we could host them without copyright issues, but then Eloquence cleared that up. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 17:59, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

NPOV of pictures
The pictures violate NPOV policy. They make the soldiers look like monsters. I'm saying this and I was pro-war. --Merovingian ↕ T@Lk 22:00, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * They don't "look" like monsters. They are monsters. And pictures should stay here with the article to accurately, not partially, portray what happened. --Hiwamy 17:35, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

 * If you think they make the soldiers look like monsters, I think that says something more about you and your value system than about the pictures. The pictures accurately represent factual events... hard to see how that's POV. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 16:57, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * War is about killing people. It turns men into monsters. check this pir 15:11, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The pictures are why this article exists and is on the front page of Wiki. The individual soldiers involved do indeed look like monsters and its going to have a significant impact on US involvement in Iraq.  Its a historical event, or at very least a very newsworthy one, and probably one Iraqis are going to remember for a long, long time.Stargoat 22:04, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * That doesn't tell me why they violate the policy, suggested by your assent, and are still allowed here. --Merovingian ↕ T@Lk 22:08, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * Asserting something does not make it so. Do you claim that the images are an inaccurate presentation of what happened? If so, how? If not, then they are clearly factual and thus perfectly acceptable in accordance with our policies. If you don't like what happened because it conflicts with your preconceived notions of how the world should be, then that is unfortunate, but unrelated to Wikipedia policy. It is not our job to shape reality in such a fashion as to make it more convenient for your brain.--Eloquence* 22:43, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * Hisss... You're right; the pictures are factual, and therefore acceptable.  --Merovingian ↕ T@Lk 22:47, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * Does that mean the neutrality of the article is no longer disputed? Victor Gijsbers 19:26, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * My contnetion is that too much weight is bieng placed on the most recent developments. There are 3 lines about the jails history and dozens about the most recent events there. TDC 19:54, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * TDC, what are you waiting for? just add info about Saddam, nobody here disagrees with you, hence it is not POV. There is no NPOV dispute in that. Please do not diminish the quality of this excellent but uncomfortable article. Please do not use the NPOV boilerplate in vain.
 * The reason why there is more information about torture committed by the US is (1) that it is in the news at the moment (2) the US government continuously repeat that Iraqis are better off under the occupation, that they plan to install a democratic, human-rights based system.
 * I believe you are acting in bad faith. 139.184.30.19 21:07, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well first off, I am already involved in too many anrticles to invest any time inthis right now, secondly, your remarks indicaye exactly where you want this article to go, and lastly, fuck off for insinuating that I am acting in bad faith. TDC 00:54, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

 * There's only one direction I want this article to go : as close to an objective account of the facts as possible. Can you not see that this story is important and widely reported on because it contradicts the occupiers' propaganda, no matter what our respective points of view are? What a shame you feel so strongly that this article is POV that you put the NPOV message, but don't have the time to improve it (not that I'm insinuating anything...).139.184.30.17 01:13, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I think that all the editors of this article especially, need to be careful about not giving their opinion. It is difficult to write an encyclopedia entry when not all the facts are out.  An encyclopedia's strength is in its hindsight.  I think that before pics and "anti-propoganda" are posted, you need to let the facts straighten out.

Media coverage
This story has been receiving widespread coverage in the UK and presumably many other countries. But we are told that it is receiving little attention in the US and failed to make the front pages of pretty much every newspaper in the USA (page 22 of the Washington Post according to Channel 4 News). So I'm proud that Wikipedia has this on the "In The News" section. Now of course we have new pictures of British soldiers mistreating prisioners splashed across the Daily Mirror. It's a shameful business. Mintguy (T) 23:17, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, it's been the top story on CNN.com all day, and was all over the TV news. --Delirium 23:34, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * CNN.com did not show the images and the thrust of its reporting has been "European media are in a frenzy" (in fact right now they are showing European newspapers). Furthermore, it has not been the top story all day -- at least three other stories have taken the top spot during the day, including Michael Jackson and Jayson Williams.--Eloquence* 23:39, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * That does seem to be the way it's heading now, which is unfortunate. When I first checked CNN (I don't usually, but I wanted to see how they handled this case) at around 1pm US Pacific time, it was the top story and illustrated by an image similar to Image:AbuGhraibAbuse05.jpg.  It also gave more article space to "Bush says it's bad" than to the European media it's currently focusing on. --Delirium 23:43, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

The following "Sir Michael Jackson, chief of the UK general staff, said similarly, "if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform and they have besmirched the Army's good name and conduct." is in completely the wrong place. Mike Jackson was referring to the the incident that is depicted on the front of the Daily Mirror, which is a completely different incident, not occuring in Abu Ghraib prison. So I'm going to remove the text on this basis. Mintguy (T) 23:27, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Ah, sorry about that. The BBC article was confusing, and didn't mention where the other incident took place, so being that it was in the same article, and the issue was raised on the same day, I assumed it took place in the same location.  Perhaps we should move all this to a separate page on mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners by the coalition, regardless of location, and link to that article from here? --Delirium 23:34, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC)

News coverage - anyone with a newspaper can help
If we can address the issue of news coverage more empirically (who covered it where) that would be great. So anyone who has a newspaper from today, please check where and at which length the issue was covered and state the name of the paper here.--Eloquence* 00:10, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

I think this should go in a separate article, possibly with a link from here, and I'm not too sure about it entirely—it seems a little bit like original research. We could do these sorts of analyses for all sorts of events: for example, do Israeli suicide bombings get covered more or less prominently in some countries than others? How was the WTC covered the first day after the attacks in various countries? How were was the UN oil-for-food corruption scandal covered in various countries? All interesting, but seems like a job for a media watchdog, not us, and then we should report the results of such a study. Perhaps someone like FAIR will issue a report we can link to? --Delirium 00:16, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * This is source research and certainly allowed. If we come to the conclusion that these is no disparity between US and European media reports we may do away with it, but if there is - as seems to be evident - a significant gap, then that bears mentioning in this article.--Eloquence* 00:19, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * No. Rather, if SOMEONE ELSE raises a fuss about the disparity, and that fuss gets noticed, then we mention it in this article. Meelar 00:21, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Uh, no, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not simply a news digest. This is exactly the kind of stuff we should be doing.--Eloquence* 00:25, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * The phrasing is a giveaway: "If we come to the conclusion"? That would be original research about media coverage, which is still original research. Meelar 00:30, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * No, coming to conclusions is not "original research". Wikipedia policy does not forbid the application of logic.--Eloquence* 00:31, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * While I think this is interesting analysis, and the fact that the British media has been saying that this isn't being covered in a big way in the US, it might be difficult to prove a point with this about the resot of the world. Most of Europe is covering the enlargment of the EU as the main story. The British media on the other hand is focussed on the Iraq situation because we are actively involved in it. In the muslim countries of the world the story features prominently for obvious reasons. Mintguy (T) 00:33, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * This is certainly original research: I would have felt confident submitting this to my professor in "Policies, Politics and News" for my final paper, had it come a few weeks earlier. And what you and a U.S. rightist might consider "logic" would vary considerably. Meelar 00:38, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Hardly. In my experience, these kind of people do not even argue - they just try to remove whatever information they don't like. Question number 1: Which are the largest papers in the US, the UK, Germany, France, ..? Question 2: How did the coverage differ in these papers? These two questions are objectively answerable with source research only, the kind of research encyclopedists conduct constantly, and the answer to these questions is unambiguous and factual. So please stop trying to sabotage legitimate community efforts.--Eloquence* 00:49, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * I haven't even edited the page, actually. I'd appreciate not being a labeled a saboteur simply because we hold differing views on what constitutes an encyclopedia (I should say "differing views--mine are right"--but I'm above that).  Thank you. Meelar 00:54, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * There's no point in editing the page because the information in question is not yet included. We're still collecting. It seems absurd to me when an attempt is made to do serious source research -- something we should do a lot more of when everyone just uses Google -- this is immediately torpedoed with what I consider to be a very weak argument at best. The "no original research" policy is for fringe physics theories, vanity pages or controversial interpretations of source material, it is not intended to stifle the collection of data from paper-based sources.--Eloquence* 01:02, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * As I read No original research, it doesn't say anything about fringe theories only. Even if I were a famous researcher, publishing my work here would not be kosher, until it gets picked up by the wider community.  This is clearly research in the field of political science. Meelar 01:08, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Even if standards for publication in this area are not particularly high that doesn't mean that source research, which is essential for an encyclopedia, suddenly becomes unacceptable.--Eloquence* 01:15, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * What is unacceptable is when we make a claim about the potential meanings of the varying patterns of coverage. If someone else makes this claim, we can and should include it, but we aren't empowered to do it on our own. Meelar 01:27, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Nobody was talking about making such claims.--Eloquence* 01:35, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * "If we come to the conclusion that these is no disparity between US and European media reports we may do away with it, but if there is - as seems to be evident - a significant gap, then that bears mentioning in this article"

--Forgive me for getting the wrong impression, then. Look, you can make changes if you'd like, and then I'll see. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to wait until I actually have something to argue about. Yours, Meelar 01:45, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

A study of media bias is very much original research, and is actually a very active field of academic research. I don't trust Wikipedians to be competent to make claims of media bias unless those claims are published in a peer-reviewed journal (as many such claims have been, and those claims I'm much less suspect of). There's a lot of methodological issues that are commonly dealt with by serious research in the field, and which I doubt would be properly dealt with here. Some of them include: an unbiased and representative selection of the sources to survey; controlling for the non-political biases of the sources (for example, the paper's domestic vs. international focus, or sports vs. non-sports focus, and so on), and lots more. If, for example, it were found that US papers downplayed this story to the exact same extent that they typically downplay non-US stories (US papers typically are biased towards events that happen within the US's borders), that would be uninteresting. If they downplayed it more than usual, that would be interesting. Basically, I'd be very interested in a carefully controlled, peer-reviewed study of the matter, but I don't expect Wikipedia to be the place it's published. --Delirium 03:13, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

News coverage data

 * Daily Mail: page 1, full length article with "hooded man/wire" photo (from CNN.com photo)
 * Washington Post:page 22, no photo (from today's edition)
 * Der Spiegel (German Weekly) Front Page Article about the Torturers of Baghdad Front Page

 * The British story is an exclusive for the Daily Mirror, for tommorow morning's (Saturday 1 May) paper, so the story has not had time to generate much reaction yet. The second editions of various British newspapers for Saturday will probably feature this story. I you go to http://news.bbc.co.uk and look at the right hand section of the screen (you might have to switch to the UK edition) there is a pop up you can open up to view the front pages of various British papers (no URL for this unfortunately). You can select the date you wish to view. For 30 April 2004, The Daily Mirror, the Daily Mail and The Guardian all have the photos of the US incident on the front page (It is possible that the other UK papers had the story in their second editions). All of the British news channels had this story as their lead story throughout most of the day until the British story broke in the late evening. Mintguy (T) 00:20, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

 * According to the May 1 Guardian, "the Baltimore Sun [was] the only major US newspaper to comment on revelations of abuse at Abu Ghraib." Elsewhere in the paper they revealed "CBS admitted it had come under severe pressure from the Pentagon not to broadcast the images".

 * Just a note--the story was front-page above the fold on Saturday's Washington Post. Meelar 23:25, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Everything2
Citing everything2 seems less than ideal: both they and us are essentially trying to summarize the story. Pointing a reader to yet another summary but a different one isn't that helpful; more helpful would be adding whatever they have that we don't so that the Wikipedia article contains everything a reader might need to know. --Delirium 03:20, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * We're not citing them, we're linking to them. Citing them would be inappropriate because we should cite primary, not secondary source. Listing them as an external link does not strike me as problematic. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 17:07, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

More to the story
Rape. The Guardian reports: "[A]ccording to several sources with detailed knowledge of the case, [An American contractor] raped an Iraqi inmate in his mid-teens."

Widespread abuse. Major General Antonio M. Taguba found that between October and December of 2003 there were numerous instances of "sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses" at Abu Ghraib. Taguba's report listed some of the wrongdoing:
 * Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

Other evidence. Staff Sgt. Ivan L. "Chip" Frederick II faces a court marshall for Abu Ghraib, mailed his diary home. It lists detailed, dated entries that chronicle abuse and name names. Excerpt:
 * ''They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. The next day the medics came in and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake I.V. in his arm [to suggest he died under medical care] and took him away. This OGA [prisoner] was never processed and therefore never had a number."

And also:
 * MI has been present and witnessed such activity. MI has encouraged and told us great job [and] that they were now getting positive results and information.

I'm not sure what of this should go into the article itself, but it's clear this is not an isolated incident. Quadell 16:02, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

Daily Mirror photos
–Hajor 18:01, 1 May 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) Copyright status: "courtesy of Daily Mirror" -- seems to that imply permission was sought and granted. Is that the case?
 * 2) Relevance to this article: this incident didn't take place at Abu Ghraib. Maybe it's time to address the overlap of this article with Human rights situation in post-Saddam Iraq

Civil discussion
I want to congratulate everybody on maintaining a civil tone during all of these discussions. RickK 20:10, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Questionable link removed
I've removed this link. It duplicates the images we already have but also has some images which are completely unrelated to Abu Ghraib. They depict a rape scene, but to me they look staged - even if they aren't, there's no source information and it has nothing to do with this article.--Eloquence* 23:31, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

I thought this link was appropriate. Very questionable, but that's what external links are for, questioning. The rape may be out of context but the last two show more believable photos of naked prisoners being led around outdoors somewhere, possibly unrelated to Abu Ghraib, but possibly related to the significance of this story (U.S. war crimes in Iraq.) Plus it seems to be the only non-western site linked, and I've always found Arabic media (while lacking the NPOV) of interest in getting a better understanding of the situation. I think this link should be kept, with a disclaimer of it's questionable nature. If nothing else it's an example of anti-U.S. propoganda, that the rape images are included with only "these pictures were e-mailed to albasrah" as a source. Very telling of what the Abu Ghraib incident has done for US/Iraqi relations to say the least. Links need not necessarily be NPOV... --PJV 17:05, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

 * That link does not improve this particular article. Instead, start an article on Albasrah.net. Write about the origin of the site, its evolution, and describe its content. Kingturtle 17:22, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Some of the pictures on the al-Basra.net website have apparently been taken from porn sites depicting forced sex with Iraqi women in a war situation, as described in this [ http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38335 ] article -  so thanks for removing it, and sorry for putting the ink in the first place without checking it more thoroughly. I don't know abything much about the al-Basra website itself. (still, given the trade of pictures of abuse among soldiers, it doesn't seem totally impossible that they are genuine ; and the al-Basra website may not have acted in bad faith.) pir 09:14, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

New Yorker photos
The New Yorker has higher quality photos without the CBS logo in this gallery (click the "View images" link). If someone wants to replace our current images, that would be great.--Eloquence* 23:36, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

All this talk...
Thanks for posting these pictures. It was not 'too much' or 'not enough.' I have a very good idea of the situation, and this is why I visit Wikipedia before I visit Slashdot or CNN.com, in the morning.

could v. would
"(which would qualify as torture under the United Nations Convention Against Torture)."

We cannot say would. There is no guarantee that in an international court, the verdict would decide it qualified as torture. We can only say that it could. Kingturtle 17:26, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't think it's exactly a matter of courts of law and verdicts (I'm not sure how the Committee Against Torture operates), but I'll have a go at rewording. –Hajor 17:40, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Nicely worded. Kingturtle 17:49, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks! I was about to c&p the convention definition of torture, but I got an edit conflict. Here it goes, anway; might be useful for future reference: torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him... information or a confession, punishing him for an act he... has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him. –Hajor

names
If they were both "detained and demoted," then why is it wrong to include their names in this article? Kingturtle 21:41, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Presumption of innocence? If some angry vigilante goes and throws a molotov cocktail through the female PFC's parents' kitchen window tonight, do you want him to be able to say he tracked the address down through www.wikipedia.org? I'd rather let the New Yorker (or any of the other hundred press sources out there) take the rap. I see I was reverted PDQ after deleting the names. Whatever, as the kids say. But if we're going to name those two, then in the interests of balance we have to name the other five (per the NYorker) who are under investigation. –Hajor 23:16, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

Hajor, I did not revert your edit. I chose to ask you in TALK instead. Including the names of two people "detained and demoted" because of this incident would be stating a fact. As long as we don't surmise or make false allegations, the facts should be included. At least, that is my opinion. Kingturtle 23:22, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Sublime Sovereign of the Chelonians, whatever else I was doing in my previous message, I certainly wasn't playing the blame game about who reverted. My point about discretion in naming names has been made – and if it fell on deaf ears, then that was probably because of the USA's extraordinary openness about such information, compared to the countries I'm more familiar with. A matter of different cultural perceptions. More deponent sayeth not (other than pointing out (again) that if we're going to name two, then we should name seven). I'm cool. –Hajor 23:37, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

Title
OK, this has been changed from Abu Ghraib to Abu Grahib. Is the move wrong? RickK 22:37, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

There seem to be a number of spellings possible using Roman letters:

Abu Ghraib, Abu Ghurayb, Abu Gharab, Abu Ghuraib, Ab-e Gharib, Ab-e Ghereyyeb, Abi Ghurayb, Abi Gharib and Albu Gharib AndyL 23:30, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Abu Ghraib prison/Archive 1


text:
List of tank landing ships

Argentine Navy

 * ARA BDT-1/Q41
 * ARA Cabo San Diego (BDT-2)
 * ARA Cabo San Francisco de Paula (BDT-3)
 * ARA Cabo San Gonzalo (BDT-4/Q44)
 * ARA Cabo San Antonio (Q42)
 * ARA Cabo San Isidro (BDT-6/Q46)
 * ARA Cabo San Pablo (BDT-7)
 * ARA Cabo Pio (BDT-10/Q50)
 * ARA Cabo San Sebastian (BDT-11)
 * ARA BDT-12
 * ARA Cabo Buen Tiempo (BDT-13)
 * ARA Cabo San Vincente (BDT-14)

Brazilian Navy

 * NDCC Almirante Sabóia (G-25)
 * NDCC Mattoso Maia (G-28)
 * NDCC Garcia D'Avilla (G-29)
 * NDD Ceará (G-30)

Royal Brunei Navy

 * KDB Damuam (L-31)
 * KDB Puni (L-32)
 * KDB Serasa (L-33)
 * KDB Teraban (L-34)

Chilean Navy

 * BACH Comandante Hemmerdinger (LST-88)
 * BACH Comandate Araya (LST-89)

Ecuadorian Navy

 * Hualcopo (T-55, T-61, TR-61)

Hellenic Navy
Five Jason-class tank landing ship:
 * Aliakmon (L104)
 * HS Chios (L 173)
 * HS Samos (L 174)
 * HS Ikaria (L 175)
 * HS Lesvos (L 176)
 * HS Rodos (L 177)

Indonesian Navy
Active

LST-542-class tank landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Amboina

Teluk Semangka-class tank landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Mandar
 * KRI Teluk Sampit
 * KRI Teluk Banten
 * KRI Teluk Ende

Teluk Gilimanuk-class landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Gilimanuk
 * KRI Teluk Celukan Bawang
 * KRI Teluk Cendrawasih
 * KRI Teluk Sibolga
 * KRI Teluk Manado
 * KRI Teluk Hading
 * KRI Teluk Parigi
 * KRI Teluk Lampung
 * KRI Teluk Sangkulirang
 * KRI Teluk Cirebon
 * KRI Teluk Sabang

Teluk Bintuni-class tank landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Kendari
 * KRI Teluk Kupang
 * KRI Teluk Bintuni
 * KRI Teluk Lada
 * KRI Teluk Youtefa
 * KRI Teluk Palu
 * KRI Teluk Calang
 * KRI Teluk Weda
 * KRI Teluk Wondama

Decommissioned

LST-1-class tank landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Tomini

LST-542-class tank landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Langsa
 * KRI Teluk Bayur
 * KRI Teluk Kau
 * KRI Teluk Manado
 * KRI Teluk Ratai
 * KRI Teluk Saleh
 * KRI Teluk Bone
 * KRI Tandjung Nusanive
 * KRI Tandjung Radja

Polnocny-class landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Parigi

Teluk Semangka-class tank landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Semangka
 * KRI Teluk Penyu

Teluk Gilimanuk-class landing ship:
 * KRI Teluk Berau
 * KRI Teluk Peleng
 * KRI Teluk Jakarta

KRI Teluk Peleng foundered during a sinking incident on 18 November 2013

Indian Navy
3 ships of Shardul Class:

 * INS Shardul (L16)
 * INS Kesari (L15)
 * INS Airavat (L24)

2 ships of Magar Class:

 * INS Magar (L20)
 * INS Gharial (L23)

8 ships of Kumbhir Class a variant of the Polnocny C and D Class landing ships:

 * INS Ghorpad (L14) (decommissioned)
 * INS Kesari (1975) (L15) (decommissioned)
 * INS Shardul (1975) (L16) (decommissioned)
 * INS Sharabh (L17) (decommissioned)
 * INS Cheetah (L18)
 * INS Mahish (L19)
 * INS Guldar (L21)
 * INS Kumbhir (L22)

The Indian Navy also previously operated the Gharial class the local name for the Polnocny A class landing ship

Republic of Korea Navy

 * ROKS Wi Bong (LST-812/676)
 * ROKS Su Yong (LST-813/677)
 * ROKS Buk Han (LST-815/678)
 * ROKS Hwa San (LST-816/679)

Philippine Navy

 * BRP Suriago Del Sur
 * BRP Lanao Del Norte (LST-504)
 * Former USS LST-607
 * BRP Agusan del Sur
 * Misamis Oriental (LT-40)

Russian Navy/Soviet Navy
In Russian they are Large Landing Ships, in the U.S. Navy Hull Designation they are LST (Landing Ship, Tank).
 * Alligator-class landing ship
 * Ropucha I and II-class landing ship
 * Ivan Gren-class landing ship

Sri Lanka Navy

 * SLNS Shathi (L880)

Spanish Navy

 * SPANISH SHIP Juan Carlos I

Republic of Singapore Navy

 * RSS Endurance (L-201)
 * RSS Excellence (L-202)
 * RSS Intrepid (L-203)
 * RSS Resolution (L-204)
 * RSS Persistence (L-205)
 * RSS Perseverance (L-206)
 * RSS Endurance (L-207)
 * RSS Resolution (L-208)
 * RSS Persistence (L-209)
 * RSS Endeavor (L-210)

Republic of Vietnam Navy

 * RVN Nha Trang (HQ-505)

Royal Thai Navy

 * HTMS Sichang (LST 721)
 * HTMS Surin (LST 722)

Turkish Navy

 * TCG Sarucabey (NL-123)
 * TCG Karamürsel (NL-124)
 * TCG Osman Gazi (NL-125)
 * TCG Bayraktar (L-402)
 * TCG Sancaktar (L-403)

Royal Navy (United Kingdom)
During the Second World War most LSTs were unnamed, names were given to those kept in service post war.

 * Maracaibo-class Mark I landing ship, tank
 * HMS Misoa (F117)
 * HMS Tasajera (F125)
 * HMS Bachaquero (F110)
 * LST Mk 1
 * HMS Boxer (F121)
 * HMS Bruiser (F127)
 * HMS Thruster (F131)

 * LST 3001/Frederick Glover
 * LST 3002
 * LST 3003/HMS Anzio
 * LST 3004
 * LST 3005
 * LST 3006/HMS Tromsø
 * LST 3007
 * LST 3008
 * LST 3009/SS Regiunald Kerr
 * LST 3010/HMS Attacker/HMS Empire Cymric - LST Mk 3.
 * HMS Avenger (LST 3011)
 * LST 3012/HMS Ben Nevis
 * LST 3013/HMS Ben Lomond
 * LST 3014
 * LST 3015/HMS Battler
 * LST 3016/HMS Dieppe
 * LST 3017/HMAS Tarakan
 * LST 3018
 * LST 3019/HMS Vaagso
 * LST 3020
 * LST 3021
 * LST 3022
 * LST 3023
 * LST 3024
 * LST 3025/HMS Bruiser
 * LST 3026/HMS Charger
 * LST 3027/HMS Lofoten
 * LST 3028
 * LST 3029/HMS Chaser
 * LST 3030
 * LST 3031
 * LST 3032
 * LST 3033
 * LST 3034
 * LST 3035/HMAS Lae
 * LST 3036/HMS Puncher
 * LST 3037
 * LST 3038/HMS Fighter
 * LST 3039
 * LST 3040
 * LST 3041
 * LST 3042/HMS Hunter
 * LST 3043/HMS Messina
 * LST 3044/HMS Narvik
 * LST 3045
 * LST 3501 - to Australia as HMAS Labuan
 * LST 3502
 * LST 3503
 * LST 3504/HMS Pursuer
 * LST 3505/HMS Ravager
 * LST 3506
 * LST 3507
 * LST 3508/HMS Searcher
 * LST 3509
 * LST 3510/HMS Slinger
 * LST 3511/HMS Reggio
 * LST 3512
 * LST 3513/HMS Salerno
 * LST 3514/HMS Smiter
 * LST 3515/HMS Stalker
 * LST 3516/HMS Striker
 * LST 3517/HMS St Nazaire
 * LST 3518/HMS Suvla
 * LST 3519
 * LST 3520/HMS Thruster
 * LST 3521
 * LST 3522/HMS Tracker
 * LST 3523/HMS Trouncer
 * LST 3524/HMS Trumpeter
 * LST 3525/HMS Walcheren
 * LST 3526
 * LST 3527
 * LST 3528
 * LST 3529
 * LST 3530
 * LST 3531
 * LST 3532/HMS Zeebrugge
 * LST 3533
 * LST 3534

LST 3535 to LST 3575 were all cancelled.

United States Navy

 * USS LST-1
 * USS LST-5
 * USS LST-10
 * USS LST-11
 * USS LST-12

 * USS LST-15
 * USS LST-16
 * USS LST-17
 * USS LST-18
 * USS LST-19
 * USS LST-20
 * USS LST-21
 * USS LST-22
 * USS LST-23
 * USS LST-24
 * USS LST-25
 * USS LST-26
 * USS LST-27
 * USS LST-29
 * USS LST-31
 * USS LST-32
 * USS LST-50
 * USS LST-57
 * USS LST-58
 * USS LST-60
 * USS LST-70
 * USS LST-81
 * USS LST-82
 * USS LST-83
 * USS LST-84
 * USS LST-119
 * USS LST-132
 * USS LST-136
 * USS LST-141
 * USS LST-209
 * USS LST-231
 * USS LST-264
 * USS LST-266
 * USS LST-279
 * USS LST-285
 * USS LST-288
 * USS LST-289
 * USS LST-306
 * USS LST-310
 * USS LST-316
 * USS LST-317
 * USS LST-325

 * USS LST-332
 * USS LST-340
 * USS LST-344
 * USS LST-345
 * USS LST-350
 * USS LST-353
 * USS LST-356
 * USS LST-357
 * USS LST-374
 * USS LST-380
 * USS LST-389
 * USS LST-391
 * USS LST-393
 * USS LST-400

 * USS LST-453
 * USS LST-454
 * USS LST-455
 * USS LST-472
 * USS LST-482
 * USS LST-483

 * USS LST-494
 * USS LST-496
 * USS LST-499
 * USS LST-507
 * USS LST-511
 * USS LST-515
 * USS LST-531
 * USS LST-545
 * USS LST-546
 * USS LST-558
 * USS LST-566
 * USS LST-569
 * USS LST-570
 * USS LST-571
 * USS LST-572
 * USS LST-573
 * USS LST-607
 * USS LST-618
 * USS LST-622
 * USS LST-661
 * USS LST-710
 * USS LST-712
 * USS LST-734
 * USS LST-738
 * USS LST-749
 * USS LST-766
 * USS LST-767
 * USS LST-801
 * USS LST-814
 * USS LST-823
 * USS LST-826
 * USS LST-828
 * USS LST-842
 * USS LST-843
 * USS LST-848
 * USS LST-849
 * USS LST-851
 * USS LST-853
 * USS LST-872
 * USS LST-874
 * USS LST-875
 * USS LST-884
 * USS LST-896
 * USS LST-900
 * USS LST-902
 * USS LST-906
 * USS LST-911
 * USS LST-919
 * USS LST-945
 * USS LST-980
 * USS LST-981
 * USS LST-982
 * USS LST-983
 * USS LST-984
 * USS LST-985
 * USS LST-986
 * USS LST-987
 * USS LST-988
 * USS LST-989
 * USS LST-990
 * USS LST-991
 * USS LST-992
 * USS LST-993
 * USS LST-994
 * USS LST-995
 * USS LST-996
 * USS LST-997
 * USS LST-998
 * USS LST-999
 * USS LST-1000
 * USS LST-1001
 * USS LST-1044
 * USS LST-1066
 * USS LST-1067
 * USS LST-1069
 * USS LST-1073
 * USS LST-1080
 * USS LST-1082
 * USS LST-1084
 * USS LST-1104
 * USS LST-1108
 * USS LST-1123
 * USS LST-1138
 * USS LST-1146
 * USS De Soto County (LST-1171)
 * USS Waldo County (LST-1163)

title: List of tank landing ships


text:
Haast River

The Haast River / Awarua is a river on the West Coast of the South Island of New Zealand. The Māori name for the river is Awarua. It drains the western watershed of the Haast Pass. The Haast River is 100 km in length, and enters the Tasman Sea near Haast township. The river's main tributary is the Landsborough River.

Toponomy
Julius von Haast named the river after himself, "directed, so he said, by his Provincial Superintendent". Von Haast explored a route from Otago to the West Coast that was long known to Māori; his four companions were William Young (a surveyor), Charles Håring (a retired sailor), William Francis Warner (later the proprietor of Warner's Hotel), and Robert Langley Holmes (later the Canterbury provincial meteorologist). They set out on 22 January 1863 and stood in the surf on 20 February.

Geography
The river is set within the Te Wahipounamu World Heritage Site. The majority of the surrounding land is publicly owned and administered by the Department of Conservation. The grassy flats on the lower reaches are grazed by cattle owned by the local farmers. Tourism operators offer jetboat tours on the river.

follows virtually the complete length of the river. From near Haast Pass, the state highway is located on the river's true left. It switches to the true right at the Gates of Haast Bridge. At Pleasant Flat, where the valley widens out, the state highway crosses back to the true left. The final bridge is near the coast, just after the turnoff to the Haast township. At 737 m it is the longest one-lane road bridge in New Zealand, and the 7th longest New Zealand bridge overall.

The Haast plain
The Haast plain extends 50 km from Ship Creek to Jackson Bay / Okahu. The plain has an unusual landform, with long parallel lines of low hills with narrow swales in between. In some places, the plain is 10 km wide, with six rows of dunes and swales. The landform results from the combined effects of sediment carried to the coast by six large rivers, longshore drift and periodic seismic uplifts. The rivers discharging into the Tasman sea in this region of coastline drain from large catchment areas in the Southern Alps, where there is high rainfall and the mountains have high rates of erosion. The suspended sediment yield of the Arawhata River has been reported as 7.18 Mt/yr, and the Haast River as 5.93 Mt/yr. The total estimated suspended sediment yield from rivers in South Westland is over 50 Mt/yr. Longshore drift leads to much of this sediment being deposited along the Haast coastline, forming dunes. The Alpine Fault runs along the inland edge of the plain, and the entire area is subject to tectonic uplift during major seismic events. Following a major uplift, existing dunes are no longer exposed to the action of the sea, and new dunes begin to form. This creates a longitudinal pattern of dunes with low-lying wetlands in between. The coastal plain is approximately 6,000 years old. The dunes close to the current shoreline have little vegetation, but the older dunes further inland are forested with tall podocarps. The swales contain wetland lakes, pakihi and kahikitea swamp forests.

title: Haast River


text:
Talk:Efficient market theory

Maybe this page should be merged into Efficient markets theory. mydogategodshat 09:52, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

Merge into "Efficient Markets Hypothesis"
Efficient Markets Hypothesis is the most common name. This article seems to be asserting that there is an overarching theory. The only more general theory along this line that I know of is Rational expectations, so in short this article is not needed. Smallbones 18:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Efficient market theory


text:
List of films set in Puerto Rico

This is a partial List of films set in Puerto Rico; either the movie's plot includes that island, the movie has been filmed there, or both. Certain movies that are supposed to be set in Cuba are filmed in Puerto Rico because of the U.S. embargo and similarities between both islands. To learn more about the films of Puerto Rico, see Cinema of Puerto Rico.

#

 * "4 Estrella" (filmed in Guaynabo)
 * 12 Horas
 * 22 Jump Street (filmed in San Juan)

A

 * Act of Valor
 * The Adventurers
 * After Twenty Years: Puerto Rico (1918)
 * Aloma of the South Seas
 * Un Amante Anda Suelto (1969)
 * Amistad (filmed in San Juan)
 * Amnesia (2006)
 * Ángel (a Jacobo Morales film, not related to the U.S. television series)
 * Angelito Mio
 * El Anillo
 * Assassins (filmed in San Juan)
 * Au Pair 3
 * Una Aventura Llamada Menudo

B

 * Back in the Day
 * Bad Boys II (set in Cuba but filmed in Puerto Rico)
 * Bananas
 * Barricada
 * Battle of Blood Island
 * Bazooka: Las Batallas de Wilfredo Gómez (documentary on legendary Puerto Rican boxer Wilfredo Gómez)
 * Behind Enemy Lines: Colombia
 * El Beso que me Diste
 * Brenda Starr
 * Broche de Oro

C

 * La Caja de Problemas
 * The Caller
 * Caña Brava
 * El Cantante, starring Marc Anthony and Jennifer Lopez
 * Captain America: Civil War
 * Captain Ron
 * Captain Typhoon
 * Casi Casi
 * Castro's Daughter
 * Cat Chaser (an Abel Ferrara film, with Puerto Rico substituting for the Dominican Republic)
 * Cayo
 * Che!
 * Che 1ep
 * La Chica del lunes
 * Chiringa
 * Chona, la puerca asesina (a television movie produced by Sunshine Logroño)
 * Christian y Cristal
 * Christmas in Paradise
 * Chrysalis (El Yunque, PR)
 * El Cimarrón
 * El Clown
 * Las Combatientes (television movie, winner of the Spirit of Moondance Award at the Moondance Film Festival, starring Alba Nydia Díaz)
 * Command Approved
 * Commandments
 * Con la Musica por Dentro
 * Conexión Caribe
 * Contact (radar scene filmed in Arecibo)
 * Coralito Tiene Dos Maridos
 * Corazon Salvaje
 * Correa Cotto, starring Pedro Cabrera and Arturo Correa
 * Creature from the Haunted Sea
 * El Crimen de la Hacienda
 * Cuando Acaba la Noche
 * El cuento del Gallo Pelon
 * Culebra
 * El Curandero del Pueblo

D

 * De la Mano de un Angel
 * Death Academy
 * The Delta Factor
 * El Derecho de Comer, starring Lissette
 * Desamores
 * El Dia que Llegaron
 * Los Diaz de Doris
 * Die Mexico Connection
 * Digger 3D
 * Dinero Sangre
 * Dios Los Cria by Jacobo Morales
 * Dios Los Cria II (2004) by Jacobo Morales
 * Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights (2004) (set in Cuba, but filmed in Puerto Rico)
 * The Disappearance of Garcia Lorca
 * Do Over, The
 * Doña Ana

E

 * Elmendof
 * Enredando Sombras (documentary on Latin American cinema, with a segment by Jacobo Morales)
 * Entre los Dioses del Desprecio
 * El Escuadron del Panico
 * El Tesoro del Yunque
 * Executive Decision
 * Los Expatriados

F

 * The Face at the Window
 * El Falso Heredero
 * Fascination
 * Fascination Amour, starring Andy Lau
 * Fast Five
 * Feel The Noise
 * La Fiebre del Deseo
 * Flesh Wounds
 * Flight of Fancy
 * Flight of the Lost Balloon
 * The Food of the Gods
 * For the Love or Country (The Arturo Sandoval Story)
 * Frankenstein Meets the Spacemonster
 * Frankie, Desde la Calle
 * Fray Dolar
 * Frente al Destino
 * The Frogmen

G

 * Gitmo
 * GoldenEye (radio telescope scene filmed in Arecibo, beach and US Marines ambush scenes filmed in Manati, Puerto Rico, BMW and plane exchange scene filmed in Vega Baja)
 * Guitarra Mia (documentary and tribute to José Feliciano)

H

 * Heartbreak Ridge (filmed in Vieques) representing Grenada.
 * Helen Can Wait
 * Héroes de Otra Patria
 * Una Historia Comun
 * The Hoax (filmed in San Juan, Fajardo, and Rio Grande)
 * Hola Gente, Hola Mundo, musical and ecological documentary filmed between Costa Rica and Puerto Rico

I

 * I Witness
 * Illegal Tender
 * Imprisoned
 * In The Shadow
 * Into the Air: A Kiteboarding Experience
 * Islands in the Stream

J

 * Jacob's Ladder
 * La Jaula
 * El Jibarito Rafael
 * Juicio contra un Angel
 * Julia, Todo en Mi
 * Juntos, In Any Way

K

 * "King of Sorrow" (music video) by Sade
 * Kings of South Beach

L

 * Ladrones y Mentirosos (also known as Thieves and Liars for the U.S. festival circuit)
 * Last Flight Out
 * Last Woman on Earth (a Roger Corman movie)
 * Libertad Para la Juventud, starring Chucho Avellanet
 * Life During Wartime
 * Linda Sara by Jacobo Morales
 * Lo que le pasó a Santiago by Jacobo Morales, nominated for a Best Foreign Language Film Oscar
 * Loco por Ellas
 * Lord of the Flies (filmed in Vieques)
 * The Losers
 * Luisa Capetillo: Pasion de Justicia
 * Luna de Miel en Condominio
 * Luna de Miel en Puerto Rico

M

 * Ma Femme Me Quitte
 * Macbeth (The Caribbean Macbeth)
 * Machuchal Agente 'O' en New York
 * The Maiden Hesit (beach scenes)
 * Maldeamores
 * La Maldicion de Mi Raza
 * The Man from O.R.G.Y.
 * Man With My Face
 * Manhattan Merengue!
 * Manuela y Manuel
 * Maruja, starring Marta Romero and Axel Anderson
 * Mas Alla del Limite
 * Maten el Leon
 * Meant to Be
 * The Men Who Stare At Goats
 * Mi Aventura en Puerto Rico
 * Mi Dia de Suerte
 * Mi Verano con Amanda
 * Milagro en Yauco
 * Millonario a Go Go
 * Misterio en la isla de los monstruos
 * Monster Island
 * La Mujer del Gato
 * Una Mujer sin Precio

N

 * Never Say Die
 * The New Swiss Family Robinson
 * Nicolas y los Demas by Jacobo Morales
 * The Noah
 * Noches Prohibidas

O

 * Ocho Puertas
 * One Hot Summer
 * One Tree Hill – Season 8, Ep. 21
 * Operacion Tiburon
 * El Otro Camino
 * Outside the Law

P

 * Paging Emma
 * The Painting (combat jungle scenes)
 * Los Peloteros
 * The Perez Family
 * The Perfect Getaway
 * La Piel Desnuda
 * Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (castle scene filmed in El Morro, Old San Juan; tiny island scene filmed in Palominito Island, off the coast of Fajardo)
 * Preciosa
 * Princess Protection Program
 * The Private Navy of Sgt. O'Farrell (the original, 1968)
 * Prohibido Amar en Nueva York, starring Charytín and Julio Alemán
 * Puerto Rico
 * Puerto Rico en Carnaval
 * The Punisher

Q

 * Q&A (1990, Sidney Lumet)

R

 * Replicas
 * The Reaping
 * El Reporte
 * Romance en Puerto Rico
 * Ruby
 * The Rum Diary
 * Ruptura
 * Runner Runner

S

 * Saint of Devil's Island
 * Santa Cristal
 * Seeds of Evil
 * Sex and the College Girl
 * A Show of Force
 * Sian Ka'an
 * The Singer
 * Slayer
 * Species
 * Stiletto
 * Stop
 * Stranded
 * El Sueño del Regreso
 * Sunstorm
 * The Survivor

T

 * Taínos
 * Talento de Barrio
 * Tango Bar, starring Raúl Juliá and Valeria Lynch
 * Tanya's Island
 * Teen Beach Movie
 * Thunder Island
 * Trapped
 * Los Tres Pecados*Toxic Shark*

U

 * Una Aventura Llamada Menudo
 * Under Suspicion
 * Undercurrent, with Lorenzo Lamas

V

 * Vanished (Lifetime original movie, set on fictional island of San Carlos)
 * Via Cruces Playero
 * La Virgen de la Calle

W

 * When the Girls Take Over
 * Weekend Warriors (filmed in Loiza)
 * Wizards of Waverly Place: The Movie
 * Wuthering Heights (filmed in Cabo Rojo)

Y

 * Yellow
 * Yo Creo en Santa Claus (I believe in Santa Claus), a television movie broadcast by Televicentro, December 25, 2004, and January 1, 2005, produced by Leo Fernandez III, starring Lorel Crespo and Lou Briel
 * Yo soy Boricua, pa'que tu lo sepas!
 * El Yugo

title: List of films set in Puerto Rico


text:
Chris Fehn

Christopher Michael Fehn (born February 24, 1973) is an American musician. He was a percussionist and backing vocalist for the heavy metal band Slipknot from 1998 to 2019, in which he was designated #3. He was also the bassist for Will Haven from 2010 to 2012.

Slipknot
Fehn grew up in Ankeny, Iowa. Prior to joining Slipknot, he played as a kicker on the Wayne State University football team. Fehn joined the band around August (or September) 1998, replacing percussionist Brandon Darner.

As well as lending his percussion talents to the band, Fehn has also sung backing vocals on a number of songs Slipknot has both recorded and performed live. Fehn describes himself as a "big fan of the band" and says of Slipknot, "the world needed something like this."

In an interview with Face Culture, Fehn stated that the band members gave him a hard time during his early years with the band. He described that his time during the self-titled album era was his "hazing period."

Slipknot bassist Paul Gray stated in an interview that Fehn "often brings humor to the band," and that they "definitely need that guy." Fehn would wear a Pinocchio-style mask and would frequently stroke the nose as if he was masturbating. Prior to joining Slipknot in 1998, Fehn was close friends with Slipknot's percussionist Shawn Crahan. According to Fehn, he had originally asked Crahan if he could be drummer Joey Jordison's drum tech. Shortly after his request was made, Fehn was given an offer to play percussion in the band. Fehn was then given a rough demo that contained all of Slipknot's songs. Fehn has said that "Spit It Out" was the song that stood out to him the most. Fehn then tried out on percussion and was subsequently made part of Slipknot. Of the nine members, Fehn was the eighth to join the band.

His mask was featured in the movie Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay.

He was in the band Will Haven as bassist from 2010 to 2012.

On March 14, 2019, Fehn filed a lawsuit against Slipknot, citing payment being held back. Fehn specifically accused Corey Taylor and Shawn Crahan for what he felt was questionable business dealings.

On March 18, 2019, Fehn officially split with Slipknot following the filing of his lawsuit. However, a few days later, the message was removed from the website and according to Fehn's lawyer, the percussionist's employment status with the band had not changed since his initial filing.

Personal life
In the early years of Slipknot before their signing with Roadrunner Records, Fehn was an electrician.

Outside Slipknot, Fehn is a very keen golfer, and shown on an interview he did on the band's 2006 DVD, Voliminal: Inside the Nine, where he is interviewed at a golf course.

Fehn has two sons, born in 2012, and 2023.

Fehn has ornithophobia.

with Slipknot

 * Slipknot (1999)
 * Iowa (2001)
 * Vol. 3: (The Subliminal Verses) (2004)
 * 9.0 Live (2005)
 * All Hope Is Gone (2008)
 * Antennas to Hell (2012)
 * .5: The Gray Chapter (2014)
 * Live at MSG (2023)

with Will Haven

 * Voir Dire (2011)

Other appearances

 * Phil Campbell – Old Lions Still Roar (2019) drums on "These Old Boots"

Filmography

 * 1999: Welcome to Our Neighborhood
 * 2000: Slipknot: Generation Z
 * 2002: Disasterpieces
 * 2002: Rollerball
 * 2003: Slipknot: Up to Our Necks
 * 2006: Voliminal: Inside the Nine
 * 2008: Nine: The Making of "All Hope Is Gone"
 * 2009: Of the (sic): Your Nightmares, Our Dreams
 * 2010: (sic)nesses
 * 2013: Motionless in White – America (appears in the video as the freakshow host)
 * 2016: Officer Downe
 * 2017: Day of the Gusano: Live in Mexico

title: Chris Fehn


text:
Raspberries (band)

The Raspberries were an American pop rock band formed in 1970 from Cleveland, Ohio. They had a run of success in the early 1970s music scene with their pop rock sound, which AllMusic later described as featuring "exquisitely crafted melodies and achingly gorgeous harmonies." The members were known for their clean-cut public image and matching suits, which brought them teenybopper attention as well as scorn from some mainstream media outlets as "uncool". The group drew influence from the British Invasion era—especially the Beatles, the Who, the Hollies, and the Small Faces—and its mod sensibility. In both the US and the UK, the Raspberries helped pioneer the power pop music style that took off after the group disbanded. They also have had a following among professional musicians such as Jack Bruce, Ringo Starr, and Courtney Love.

The group's "classic" lineup consisted of Eric Carmen (vocalist/guitarist/bassist/pianist), Wally Bryson (guitarist), Dave Smalley (guitarist/bassist) and Jim Bonfanti (drummer). Their best known songs include "Go All the Way", "Let's Pretend", "I Wanna Be with You", "Tonight", and "Overnight Sensation (Hit Record)". Producer Jimmy Ienner was responsible for all four of the Raspberries' albums in the 1970s. The group disbanded in 1975 after a five-year run, and Eric Carmen proceeded to a successful career as a solo artist. Bryson and Smalley resurrected the group's name in 1999 for an album, which included singer/songwriter Scott McCarl as vocalist. In 2004, the original quartet reunited and undertook a well-received reunion tour in 2005.

Formation
The group had its roots in two of Cleveland's most successful local bands in the late 1960s, The Choir and Cyrus Erie. The Choir, originally called The Mods and consisting of Dann Klawon, Wally Bryson, Dave Burke, Dave Smalley, and Jim Bonfanti, had a more extensive repertoire of original songs. Most notable was "It's Cold Outside" which parlayed its massive local success (#1 in Cleveland) into a nationally charting single (peaking at No. 68 for Roulette Records). The Choir then went through a series of lineup changes, with Smalley and Bonfanti remaining in the various versions, until 1968, when Dave Smalley was drafted and sent to Vietnam. As a result, The Choir disbanded, although it later reformed behind Bonfanti and ultimately survived until 1970.

Although The Choir had the hit and a string of singles, Cyrus Erie, founded by brothers Michael and Bob McBride, became the better-drawing local act shortly after Eric Carmen joined in 1967. Carmen persuaded Bryson, who had recently left The Choir, to join. In live shows, Cyrus Erie mainly covered other artists' songs. When the group signed to Epic Records they recorded two Carmen/Bryson originals ("Get the Message" b/w "Sparrow") as a single. Following this, Bryson left, and was replaced by Randy Klawon. Eric, Mike, Randy and Dann Klawon then formed a new act, and the name was changed to The Quick. The Quick recorded a single of two Carmen/Klawon originals for Epic which did not find much success.

The group's style arose from a variety of rock and roll groups that the members loved, especially The Who. Carmen later said: "Pete Townshend coined the phrase [power pop] to define what the Who did. For some reason, it didn't stick to the Who, but it did stick to these groups that came out in the '70s that played kind of melodic songs with crunchy guitars and some wild drumming. It just kind of stuck to us like glue, and that was OK with us because the Who were among our highest role models. We absolutely loved the Who."

1970–1972
After discussions between Carmen and Bonfanti about forming a new group, the first lineup for the Raspberries was Eric Carmen (rhythm guitar, vocals, piano, bass), Jim Bonfanti (drums, backing vocals), Wally Bryson (lead guitar, vocals) and John Aleksic (bass, guitar, vocals). Aleksic left the group at the end of 1970 and the group performed as a trio until April 1971, when former Choir member Dave Smalley (rhythm guitar, vocals), just back from Vietnam, became the fourth member of the original recording lineup with Carmen moving to bass. The Raspberries' demo tape went to the desk of producer Jimmy Ienner, for whom Carmen had previously done session work. After a major-label bidding war the band signed to Capitol Records. This 1st album featured a strong scratch and sniff raspberry scented sticker on the front cover.

The Raspberries wore matching ensembles on stage, and the group was criticized for making its stage entrance in tuxedos and large bouffant hairdos which, according to Carmen, "complemented the style of our music".

1972–1974
"Go All the Way" peaked at #5 in the U.S. in October 1972, sold over one million copies, and was awarded a gold disc. Afterwards, Carmen and Smalley switched instruments, with Carmen moving to rhythm guitar so that he would be upfront on stage, while Smalley took over bass. After two albums, Raspberries and Fresh, both released in 1972, creative tension came to a head sparked largely by Carmen's creative dominance (and commercial success) over the contributions of Bryson and Smalley. Accordingly, Side 3 turned out to be a more raw, aggressive effort than its predecessors, typified by the opening track "Tonight". After the band's tour for Side 3, Smalley was ejected from the band due to musical differences and Bonfanti departed soon afterwards. They subsequently formed their own band, Dynamite. They were replaced in December 1973 by bassist Scott McCarl and ex-Cyrus Erie drummer Michael McBride for what was to be the fourth and final Raspberries album, Starting Over.

Bryson's friend Jeff Hutton (who had also played with McBride in Target) was brought in to contribute keyboards on stage for the group's late 1973-74 tours, replacing Opie O'Brien (keyboards, sax) and Tony Shannon (keyboards, synths) who had done the honors on their 1973 tour for Side 3.

Post-breakup
In April 1975 Rainbow Canyon guitarist Billy Hanna came in to sub for an ill Bryson, but the band broke up on April 19, 1975 after a final gig in Scranton, Pa. at the Masonic Temple.

Their style, however, continued to influence other musicians. Bruce Springsteen praised the Raspberries at several stops during his Summer 2005 tour. Springsteen's drummer Max Weinberg said that he based his drum style in that period off of Raspberries drummer Michael McBride (particularly on the Springsteen album Darkness on the Edge of Town). Paul Stanley of Kiss, Tom Petty, and Axl Rose of Guns N' Roses, have all also cited the Raspberries as an influence in their songwriting.

In 1978 Bryson joined another notable power pop band, Fotomaker, led by ex-Rascals Dino Danelli and Gene Cornish. He left shortly after the second of the band's three albums was released.

A biography of the Raspberries titled Overnight Sensation – The Story of the Raspberries by Ken Sharp was released in 1993.

In 1996, a tribute album to Raspberries called Raspberries Preserved was released by Pravda Records, a Chicago-based indie record label. The album featured 21 cover versions by such acts as The Rubinoos, Bill Lloyd, Brad Jones, Tiny Lights, Rank Strangers, the Gladhands, and The Shambles.

Singer-guitarist and primary songwriter Eric Carmen went on to have a successful solo career as a singer and writer of romantic pop ballads. His first solo hit "All by Myself" (which rearranged a motif from the melody of "Let's Pretend" and comes directly from Sergei Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Opus 18 ) hit No. 2 nationally, and was covered by Celine Dion to much fanfare in 1996. His second single "Never Gonna Fall in Love Again" was also a hit, as was "She Did It”, a spiritual sequel to both, which revived the Raspberries' power pop sound. Carmen later had additional Top Ten singles success with "Hungry Eyes" (from Dirty Dancing, 1987) and "Make Me Lose Control". He also wrote "Almost Paradise" (performed by Mike Reno and Ann Wilson for Footloose, 1984),  as well as songs that were made major hits by Shaun Cassidy ("That's Rock & Roll" and "Hey Deanie").

On March 24, 1999 all four original members, Carmen, Bryson, Smalley and Bonfanti, reunited in Metrosync Studio, near Cleveland, to play for the first time since 1973. A summer reunion tour was discussed, but the reformed group found minimal interest among promoters since the band had not been heard of since the mid-70s. Carmen and Bonfanti dropped out but Bryson, Smalley and their Starting Over bassist, Scott McCarl, decided to continue on briefly. The trio released a six-song EP entitled Raspberries Refreshed in September 2000. The album's tracks, written by the three remaining members, re-created the group's original sound.

In November 2004 the House of Blues nightclub chain opened its Cleveland branch with a Raspberries reunion concert featuring all four original members, accompanied on stage by four members of Carmen's band: Paul Sidoti - bass, guitar, keyboards, backing vocals, Billy Sullivan - guitar, keyboards, harmonica, backing vocals, Jennifer Lee - keyboards, vocals and Derek Braunschweiger - percussion. This led to a well-received 2005 mini-tour starting at the Chicago House of Blues, a VH1 Classic special, and a concert broadcast on XM Satellite Radio. A date from the 2005 tour in Los Angeles was recorded and released in 2007 as Live on Sunset Strip. The double CD and one DVD contained a foreword from Bruce Springsteen, and a 1970s photo of John Lennon wearing a Raspberries' Starting Over sweatshirt. Capitalizing on the release, Raspberries played further shows in New York, California, and their hometown of Cleveland.

The band booked a few more reunion dates into late 2007, culminating with a concert at Cleveland's Playhouse Square on December 14, 2007, and an appearance at a VIP event at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland on April 3, 2009 turned out to be their very last show.

The band's iconic rock tune "Go All the Way" attracted renewed attention in 2014 when it was notably included in the Marvel Cinematic Universe film Guardians of the Galaxy. The Albany Democrat-Herald ran a positive review of the film remarking that "while it's freaky to hear the Raspberries' ... in space, one recognizes the malleability of its majesty and craft and appreciate the range of vocalist Eric Carmen". The song was included on the film's Guardians of the Galaxy: Awesome Mix Vol. 1 soundtrack released on July 29, 2014.

In 2017 Omnivore Records released Pop Art Live, a recording of the band's first Cleveland reunion show on November 26, 2004. It was their first show together in nearly 30 years. Featuring twenty-eight songs, including material by major influences The Beatles and The Who, the album received positive reviews from publications such as Allmusic, Paste, and Stereophile. Critic Mark Deming of Allmusic remarked that "the Raspberries merge the superb craftsmanship of their classic recordings with the sweat and muscle of a crack band having a great time."

Carmen died in March 2024.

Band members

 * Eric Carmen – vocals, piano (1970–April 1975; 2004–2009); rhythm guitar (1970–1971; end of 1972–April 1975; 2004–2009); bass (1971–end of 1972) (Died 2024)
 * Wally Bryson – lead guitar, vocals (1970–April 1975; 1999–2000; 2004–2009)
 * John Aleksic – bass, guitar, vocals (1970–end of 1970)
 * Jim Bonfanti – drums (1970–end of 1973; 2004–2009)
 * Dave Smalley – rhythm guitar (1971–end of 1972; 1999–2000); bass (end of 1972–end of 1973; 2004–2009); vocals (Early 1971–November 1973; 1999–2000, 2004–2009)
 * Scott McCarl – bass, vocals (December 1973–April 1975; 1999–2000)
 * Michael McBride – drums (December 1973–April 1975) (Died 11/9/20)

Touring

 * Opie O'Brien - keyboards, synthesizers, sax (1973 Side 3 Tour)
 * Tony Shannon - keyboards, synthesizers (1973 Side 3 Tour)
 * Jeff Hutton - keyboards, synthesizers (late 1973- August 1974 tour dates)
 * Billy Hanna - guitar (fill-in for Bryson on 1975 final tour dates)
 * Paul Sidoti - bass, guitar, keyboards, backing vocals (2004-2007 Tours)
 * Billy Sullivan - guitar, keyboards, backing vocals (2004-2007 Tours)
 * Jennifer Lee - keyboards, vocals (2004-2007 Tours)
 * Derek Braunschweiger - percussion, drum tech (2004-2007 Tours)

Live albums

 * Live on Sunset Strip (2007)
 * Pop Art Live (2017)

Extended plays

 * Refreshed (2000)

title: Raspberries (band)


text:
User:Neonstarlight

Hi.

Important links:

 * Agkistrodon
 * Death adder
 * Digital recording
 * Frazee, Minnesota
 * Specularity

authors: Template namespace initialisation script

title: User:Neonstarlight


text:
User:Dittrich

Peter Dittrich

www.informatik.uni-jena.de/~dittrich

title: User:Dittrich