text:
Talk:Michelle Shocked

Old comments
From: Oliver Keyes, Wikipedia editor The changes you made turned the article into an advertisement-laden puff piece. Wikipedia is a neutral encyclopaedia, not a place to advertise. Please explain how we're meant to be a neutral, non-point-of-view source if we allow people to write articles about themselves? Yours sincerely, Oliver Keyes

From: Mighty Sound The sources that were used to obtain the information in my previous biography were obtained from journalistic puff pieces. I know, because I read the profiles when they were published and with the exception of the New York Times and New Yorker magazine, not once was an effort made to do any follow up fact checking. I have been dismayed over the years to discover what an ill-trained, tin-earred lot most professional journalists (and now, bloggers) are. If you would care to point out factual errors provided I would be most happy to refute or confirm your opinion. My effort was not to advertise. Many lazy journalists use Wikipedia to create thumbnail bios on me for their editors, much like lazy students use Wikipedia to create essays for their English teachers. The previous factoids provided by Wikipedia are true, but don't even come close to the truth. I am best positioned to understand how the information provided on Wikipedia is used in the real world. If you are serious about providing a quality, neutral point of view I don't understand how you think you will achieve it with the sources you have obtained and the editorial approach used. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Also, please advise if you need me to send a copy of my birth certificate confirming the facts of my birth.

This is the complete text of the ACCURATE biography for Michelle Shocked: Michelle Shocked Michelle Shocked is a traveller, a troubadour, a “picker-poet,” as they say in Texas. As a young feminist, she left Texas to travel, Kerouac-style, and was caught up in Reagan-era grassroots politics. Her musical career was ignited by a bootleg recording made around a Kerrville Folk Festival campfire on a Sony Walkman. Released in England as ‘The Texas Campfire Tapes’ without Shocked’s authority, its success abroad enticed Mercury Records to offer the newcomer a recording contract. She declares herself “the most sophisticated hillbilly you’ll ever meet.”

History Shocked was born in Dallas, Texas on February 24, 1962. Her father, William, 20 and her mother, Karen, 18 were briefly married but divorced when Shocked was 3. In 1965, her mother remarried Marion, a U.S. Army staff sargeant, and Shocked and a younger brother were adopted by her second husband. They were raised, along with four other siblings, in a strict Mormon household on army bases including Ft. Devens, Massachusetts, Augsburg, Germany and Ft. Meade, Maryland. When she was 12, three additional siblings left foster care to join the family. Shocked was 14 when her stepfather retired from active military duty and the family relocated to Kelsey, a small community in Upshur County, 7 miles outside Gilmer, Texas. She ran away from home at 16, but continued attending Gilmer High School and graduated in 1979. She worked her way through college and received a Bachelor of Science degree in Speech Communication in Oral Interpretation of Literature from the University of Texas at Austin in 1983.

"Michelle Shocked" is the nom de guerre given at her arrest in a political protest called "The War Chest Tour" during the 1984 Democratic National Convention in San Francisco, California. The demonstration challenged the practice of U.S. corporations receiving lucrative military contracts from the U.S. government while giving generous campaign contributions to both political parties, thus benefiting from political favors regardless of election results. "Michelle Shocked" was intended to invoke the specter of "shell shock" as a result of Reagan's Cold War policies. The front cover of one of her best-known albums, Short Sharp Shocked, shows her restrained in the chokehold by a San Francisco policeman in a front-page photograph published by the San Francisco Examiner the day following the arrest.

Shocked received her first international exposure in Europe, particularly Britain, with her debut album The Texas Campfire Tapes. The album was originally a field recording recorded directly onto a Sony Walkman at the Kerrville Folk Festival by Pete Lawrence, who represented himself as a journalist for the UK publication Folk Roots, and was released on his label, Cooking Vinyl, in 1986. His label partner, Martin Goldschmidt, became Shocked's personal manager, booking agent, and business manager.

Her break into U.S. national renown came with the 1988 release of her studio album Short Sharp Shocked on college radio rotations around the country, which was met with strong acclaim from listeners. On the crest of this independent momentum, her 1989 album Captain Swing on Mercury Records was accompanied by a strong marketing campaign, including a heavy-rotation MTV video of the single "On the Greener Side." However, following the release of 1992's Arkansas Traveler, the label did not invest in further promotion, stating that she had "cut too good a deal" for herself. From 1993-1995 she languished in creative limbo, with three separate recording proposals (including a gospel album concept) all rejected by Mercury. She was not allowed to record but she was not allowed to leave, and the label refused to honor their commitment to a recording advance. In 1996 she extricated herself from the deal, citing a violation of her 13th Amendment constitutional right prohibiting slavery, and settled out of court the day before the case was to go to trial.

In 1993 she recorded an underground version of Kind Hearted Woman (white cover), a limited edition sold only at concerts. In 1994, she contributed a cover of the Victoria Williams song "Holy Spirit" to the Sweet Relief benefit project. In 1995, she contributed an original song "Quality of Mercy" to the soundtrack for the film Dead Man Walking. In 1996 she released a studio version of Kind Hearted Woman (black cover) on the short-lived Private Music label and also authorized the release Mercury Poise, an anthology of her Mercury recordings. In 2002, with the release of Deep Natural, Shocked established her own independent label, Mighty Sound, (distributed by Megaforce/MRI via RED/Sony Distribution). She reissued expanded versions of her entire catalog, possible by her having retained complete ownership of her recorded masters and publishing copyrights when she signed with Mercury in 1987 due to a reversion clause in the contract.

Shocked continues to tour and record as an independent artist. Her song "How You Play the Game" was featured as the opening and credits soundtrack in the DVD of the 2004 documentary film Bush's Brain. In June 2005 she release a trilogy of albums called Threesome (Don't Ask Don't Tell, Mexican Standoff and Got No Strings.) In September 2007 she released a live gospel album recorded at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival called ToHeavenURide. In 2008, her song "When I Grow Up" was featured in an ad for Kaiser Permanente. Her latest album, Soul of My Soul, was release in May 2009 on Mighty Sound. She is currently collaborating with fine artist David Willardson on a unique project called Indelible Women which features Willardson's iconic portrait paintings and Shocked's compositions in a doo-wop style. In 2010 she launched a 5-year touring project called Roadworks and visits 75 cities annually. The theme of 2010 Roadworks is American Idle, putting a human face to abstract unemployment statistics and highlighting the consequences of unregulated corporate recklessness.

Personal life Shocked married journalist Bart Bull in July 1992. They were married in Los Angeles and moved to New Orleans in 1994. Returning to Los Angeles in 1999, they separated in November 2002 and were divorced in 2004. Her half brother is musician Max Johnston. Shocked has eschewed Mormonism since 1980, but since December 1992 has been a born-again fundamentalist evangelical Christian at the predominantly African-American congregation of West Angeles Church of God in Christ, Charles E. Blake, pastor.

Discography Albums Selected recordings: The Texas Campfire Tapes (1986) Short Sharp Shocked (1988) #73 US, #33 UK	Captain Swing (1989) #95 US, #31 UK	Arkansas Traveler (1992) #46 UK	Kind Hearted Woman (1994, with label release (on Private Music) in 1996) Artists Make Lousy Slaves (with Fiachna O'Braonain, 1996) sold only at performances, now issued as CDRs and MP3s at michelleshocked.com Good News (1998) sold only at performances, now issued as CDRs and MP3s at michelleshocked.com Deep Natural (2001) Dub Natural (2001) sold only at performances, later issued as a bonus disc with "Deep Natural" These three are included on a triple album packaged as "Threesome.": Don't Ask Don't Tell (2005) Mexican Standoff (2005) Got No Strings (2005) ToHeavenURide (2007) Live Gospel cd	Soul of My Soul (2009)

Re-releases Mighty Sound re-released two-CD versions of her Mercury releases - The Texas Campfire Takes (April 22, 2003), Short Sharp Shocked (September 23, 2003), Captain Swing (March 16, 2004) and Arkansas Traveler (September 14, 2004). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mightysound (talk • contribs) 17:54, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I have deleted a section of text copied verbatim from. Text cannot be copied in this way from other web sites unless the author who wrote it provides permission to do so (for example, on this talk page) or puts a public domain disclaimer on the web page. The text can be put back if it is re-written and I recommend that it be put into a separate article on the album. RedWolf 23:24, May 22, 2004 (UTC)

I've removed the latter day saints category. There's no context, no attribution, it seems random and out of place.

 * She was raised LDS but is not now, so she doesn't belong in the category. Google finds much info, such as this interview excerpt. Not sure it's worth mentioning in the article. --Darksasami 07:54, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok, that does ring a bell. I think the footer link only should be included again if there's some context, and I don't think it can be put in randomly ("she was raised a Mormon") without explaining the significance. While that is a good link, I'm hesitant to include that material based on a single interview.

Short Sharp Shocked cover
The article currently states, "The front cover of her (arguably) best-known album, Short Sharp Shocked, shows her restrained by the chokehold of a San Francisco policeman in a supposedly authentic photograph of this incident. However, some indie music critics of the time observed that the style of this image showed a strong similarity to a photo that appeared on an album cover from British punk band Chaos U.K. This led some to assert that she plagiarized the concept, but the accusation was never answered nor seriously pursued."

The booklet included in the 2003 Mighty Sound re-issue of Short Sharp Shocked discusses the cover in more detail. The incident depicted in the photograph was authentic. However, Mercury Records altered the photograph to make the policeman less identifiable. (The unaltered photograph is included in the re-issue. (Could someone who has a copy of the reissue nearby verify the details and update the article?)   --Heath 68.191.7.126 11:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I always thought the photo was supposed to be her as Michael Stewart, the graffiti artist who dies in "Graffiti Limbo".

Acting?
She's in an episode of Season 1 of Dharma and Greg. I have no idea if this is noteworthy enough to put into the entry, but she acted (well, sung, but in a manner that was functionally dialog). Dick Clark was also in the episode. I fear it may be too trivial, but it is interesting to me that she acted in a network sitcom. (My perception of "appropriate" is skewed, being an editor of another wiki with different community standards, so I'll toss this out for an experienced Wikipedian to make a judgment call on -- feel free to delete this). 68.63.165.28 20:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I think this is an interesting tidbit, but I don't know where to put it. Maybe a "trivia" section, like they have at imdb.com?Star-lists (talk) 17:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Shocked LGBT
Could we please get a quote of her discussing her sexuality openly? Otherwise is is not important and she shouldn't be in the LGBT cat. "She has been called..." really isn't very encyclopedic. She has also been called "straight" and has really be married. --Knulclunk (talk) 04:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

She acknowledged having had at least one same sex relationship in a press interview in 1990 but, given her conversion to born again Christianity, is unsurprisingly rather defensive on the issue now. Here's the original interview: http://www.dallasvoice.com/michelle-shocked-said-what-1990-outlines-interview-surfaces-10434.html Vauxhall1964 (talk) 15:19, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Sentence deleted
I removed a sentence on her personal life. It struck me as unnecessarily invasive. It was also unsourced and potentially libellous. If we are going to publicize the intimate details of someone's life, we should (a) have a reliable source to cite for it and, more importantly, (b) have a compelling reason why the public has the right to know about what might be an intensely painful topic for the subject of the article. Just because a person is a 'public figure' doesn't mean we have a right to publish their secrets. I don't care what a court of law would call libelous or not. There's a standard that's far more important: human decency.Star-lists (talk) 17:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Contentious material, bio editing, etc.
I've made some small edits to removed personal information that was not cited, and that the subject of the article (apparently editing as ) has expressed some concerns with. Notable change is the lead - there was a lot of fluff there, and the subject appears to feel the birth name listed there was incorrect, so I've yanked it until cited. Most of the article remains uncited and needs work to be up to quality. I'd encourage editors to work on finding good source material to flesh things out from here. Tony Fox (arf!) 18:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the Solomonic, if somewhat severe, effort at resolving this editing conflict. The result is acceptable.

Mightysound (talk) 16:52, 8 July 2010 (UTC)Mighty Sound

 * I"m sure as editors have the time to research and find proper sources, the article will expand with cited information from where it is now. For the moment, since it's a living persons bio, it's best to have unsourced personal information out than in. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:17, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

There is a glaring error... "On the Greener Side" is definitely a direct parody of Robert Palmer's "Simply Irresistible", not "Addicted to Love". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrGw_cOgwa8 ... one view of both is all it would take to convince you, but I don't have a written citation. I do remember rolling on the floor laughing and my wife just thinking the beefcake in "Greener" was in poor taste. not catching it was comedy. After the overplay of "Irrestistible", "Greener" was perfect.Ggoodknight (talk) 06:35, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

 * 9 months later, and that hasn't been changed. i WAS confused when i read that it was a parody of Addicted to Love; but i thought maybe i couldn't remember the vid from that song, and that i was remembering the vid from Simply Irresistible, but the Addicted vid ALSO had some models that could be ridiculed (or, at least, the choice to use them/employ such a visual could be).  but your comment, Goodknight, lets me know it wasn't me that was remembering incorrectly.Colbey84 (talk) 12:54, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Stub
As of April 1, 2011, this article is a stub or at least stub like. It appears that some relevant and valuable material has been removed. I am not an expert on Michelle Shocked (which is why I read the article) so I don't know anything about the veracity of the various claims and counterclaims in this "talk" article, but I sure hope somebody with the appropriate expertise cleans things up and fills out the article accordingly. Dagme (talk) 16:56, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Protection
Suggested minor protection on this page until her statements at her San Francisco show that made the news today are clarified/agreed upon... Everything I've read says "allegedly" and I came here to this page to read more about the incident and see it hasn't been added yet... I'm certain it will be flooded soon. 12.162.122.5 (talk) 22:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agreed to semi-protection for one day, based on what happened as noted in this blog. Bearian (talk) 22:49, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, I don't think there's much to clarify. A simple search of the web will show that her bigoted comments were as reported. Her shows are being cancelled by venues, and Shocked is commenting on Twitter that her so-called "truth" is leading to controversy:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-michelle-shocked-evanston-20130318,0,7598900.story — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.81.230.253 (talk) 23:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

8 of the remaining 11 concert dates on her U.S. tour have now been cancelled. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022533075 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.70.13 (talk) 08:05, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Her comments are no longer "alleged"; a recording of the entire second set of the Yoshi's concert (apparently made through the venue's sound system) was uploaded to soundcloud.com on March 20. I have added this information to the article, including a citation of the uploaded recording, as well as quotations from her remarks. AviJacobson (talk) 07:09, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 March 2013
The following text was introduced some time back by user Mschocked along with a number of other non-factual claims. Most of the others were corrected, but somehow this was left in place, although it was challenged at the time:

In 1984, Michelle adopted the nom de guerre "Michelle Shocked", often misquoted as "Miss Shell Shocked" or "Me-Shell-Shocked" as in the misquote in Green Left Weekly:

Suggested replacement:

In 1984, Michelle adopted the alias "Michelle Shocked", a deliberate play on the phrase "Miss Shell Shocked" as she explained in an interview in Green Left Weekly:

(i.e. it can hardly be a "misquote" when the cited source is Shocked herself -- unless editor Mschocked is claiming that Green Left Weekly misquoted her, in which case he should provide a citation showing such.)

Czetie (talk) 22:48, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Since I "semi-protected" the article, I don't think I should rule on any requests to edit. Bearian (talk) 22:53, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Page is not protected now. I suggest the OP be bold and follow WP:BRD.  RudolfRed (talk) 04:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Dallas Voice reference
The Dallas Voice interview was online earlier today, but now it's dead. Hopefully it'll be back up again soon, but in the meantime I'm used a secondary reference from the Box Turtle Bulletin that quotes the interview. This should be updated to the original article once it's back online. The link to the artcle (presently dead) is here: http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/article_8677.php

Distingué Traces (talk) 03:00, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The Wayback Machine is a good resource for dead links. Here's the above article as archived there: "Michelle Shocked believes being gay is a sin" (April 17, 2008, Dallas Voice).

Edit request on 19 March 2013
Current text:
 * On March 17, 2013, Shocked spoke out against gays during a concert at Yoshi's nightclub in San Francisco, which led to the audience leaving in protest and club management ending the show.

Suggested replacement:

 * On March 17, 2013, Shocked spoke out against gay marriage during a concert at Yoshi's nightclub in San Francisco, which led to members of the audience leaving in protest and club management ending the show.

Let's follow the BLP rules.... she was quoted as opposing gay marriage and then she threw out a widely quoted sardonic remark about twitter. As per BLP rules we should stick with her opposition to gay marriage and hold off on going full-bigot until it's confirmed. Her history suggests a complex artist/person who has no opposition to homosexuality - her comments regarding marriage politics and the rights of religious orders to follow their own faiths notwithstanding. BLP demands we hue strictly to our sources which show she is pro-gay with an opposition to imposing gay marriage requirements on those of different religious faiths. She will speak again and we will be more certain soon, that much is sure - but until then strict BLP demands narrow and focused prose.12.144.158.18 (talk) 14:36, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Reliable, mainstream sources on that paragraph describe Shocked's comments as a "gay slur" and an "anti-gay rant". Therefore, I am not comfortable narrowing the scope of that sentence to labeling her comments as being anti-gay marriage. "Spoke out against gays" might be too strong a wording, but I do think that limiting the scope to gay marriage is a worse characterization. I will leave this edit request open for another 24 hours to see if others agree. — KuyaBriBri Talk 15:03, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If it "might be" too strong a wording, then per WP:BLP - it is too strong a wording. Time will fill in the blanks and resolve doubt, our job is to get it right and adhere strictly to BLP. 99.18.140.172 (talk) 19:25, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The parting shot about "fags" was probably meant ironically, but the rest of the rant in the second half of the show was widely reported as being anti-gay, not solely anti-same-sex-marriage. Certainly it was a rant against those who oppose California Proposition 8, but there was more homophobic sentiment underneath, as far as I can tell from various audience reports. Binksternet (talk) 15:20, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the scope of her comments seem to be in regard to gay marriage. The subsequent "God hates fags" statement was very likely meant ironically - it fits how I have perceived her sense of humor over the years. I don't think we should use "mainstream" media sources as the standard.174.25.64.198 (talk) 15:28, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I've added another change in the edit request, I clarified that it was "members of the audience" who left, not the audience. 99.18.140.172 (talk) 17:20, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The page is not protected now. If there is consensus, any editor may make the change. RudolfRed (talk) 04:34, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Twitter
I am confused as to why my addition of a link to her verified Twitter account was undone. Most biographical articles link to the subject's Twitter in the external links section. Why should this be different? Fnordware (talk) 20:37, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * For one, it's a WP:PRIMARY source. Wikipedia prefers secondary sources, especially for controversial things such as this, and especially for biographies of living persons. See WP:BLP. Cheers - Binksternet (talk) 21:30, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * WP:SELFPUB provides guidelines for such sources. I think her Twitter account meets the criteria, as do other Twitter links in other articles. Someone with a particularly self-serving Twitter would be disqualified according to the criteria, but hers does not appear to be such. In this case, I think providing the Twitter link actually makes the article more neutral, as it gives a chance for her to explain herself. It's still not clear if she had some sort of psychotic episode, was just being provocative, or what. Fnordware (talk) 21:43, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Hi, it was me that removed the Twitter addition. WP:LINKSTOAVOID says: "Links normally to be avoided - 10. Social networking sites (such as Myspace and Facebook), chat or discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups), Twitter feeds, Usenet newsgroups or e-mail lists.".

 * WP:LINKSTOAVOID also states "Minimize the number of links - Normally, only one official link is included. If the subject of the article has more than one official website, then more than one link may be appropriate, under a very few limited circumstances.[8] However, Wikipedia does not provide a comprehensive web directory to every official website. Wikipedia does not attempt to document or provide links to every part of the subject's web presence or provide readers with a handy list of all social networking sites. Complete directories lead to clutter and to placing undue emphasis on what the subject says.

 * More than one official link should be provided only when the additional links provide the reader with significant unique content and are not prominently linked from other official websites. For example, if the main page of the official website for an author contains a link to the author's blog and Twitter feed, then it is not appropriate to provide links to all three. Instead, provide only the main page of the official website in this situation. In other situations, it may sometimes be appropriate to provide more than one link, such as when a business has one website for the corporate headquarters and another for consumer information. Choose the minimum number of links that provide readers with the maximum amount of information. Links that provide consistent information are strongly preferred to social networking and communication services where the content changes rapidly and may not comply with this guideline at any given moment in time. Wikipedia does not exist to facilitate corporate "communication strategies" or other forms of marketing." Lopifalko (talk) 21:48, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * You ignored the very first sentence of that section: "Except for a link to an official page of the article's subject". But I had not seen the part about just one official link. And her official website does link to her Twitter. OK, you win. Fnordware (talk) 22:05, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Category LGBT musicians?
Should this article be categorized as being about an LGBT person? Various reference books say she is bisexual, which is the 'B' in LGBT. Her own words have been interpreted as meaning that she was bisexual, such as "I would like a much broader definition for myself" [rather than straight or lesbian]. I know that LGBT categorization can get controversial, but in this case there are high quality sources such as The Gay 100 book, Larry Gross's Up from Invisibility: Lesbians, Gay Men, and the Media in America, and Martha Mockus's entry on Women's Music in the reference Lesbian Histories and Cultures: An Encyclopedia. Binksternet (talk) 04:12, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Given that the subject apparently would not like to be described as LGBT, I think the category should be left off in compliance with BLP. Yes, there are sources saying she is gay, but others quoting her saying she's not. Can't really capture the nuances in a simple category unless there's a category for "Formerly LGBT musicians who now deny LGBT status," which would be a more neutral description of the situation. Fnordware (talk) 19:47, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Can you point to a denial of being bisexual? Binksternet (talk) 20:16, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * She now denies that she ever identified herself as a lesbian, as is mentioned in this article. It says, "...she was even identified as lesbian herself for much of her career (falsely, she's repeatedly said)." Yeah, I know lesbian and bisexual aren't the same. She has made oblique references to possibly being LGBT, but then directly said the whole "God hates fags" thing. The article describes her ambiguous status, while adding the LGBT category appears to be unambiguous. The BLP says we act conservatively on issues like this. I think only living musicians who openly announce their LGBT status should be assigned that category. Fnordware (talk) 21:25, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * She did not say that she thinks God hates fags. The statement was put out as being an absurd position, according to Shocked. It was variously reported as "You can go on Twitter and say 'Michelle Shocked says God hates fags'", "You will probably leave here tonight and say 'Michelle Shocked says God hates fags'", or "God hates fags and you can tweet that I said so."
 * Even if she really meant that God hates fags it is not a denial of being bisexual. In the past she has identified herself as being bisexual, and in the last 20 years she has not said, as far as I know, that she is not bisexual. Regardless of what has been recently reported as her homophobia, the last, best word we have on her sexuality is that she is bisexual. Even her statements following the Yoshi's gig have not denied being bisexual. Binksternet (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm with Fnordware. WP:BLPCAT applies here. In case of any doubt we err on the side of not including it. Find recent reliable sources that the subject self-identifies like this and I may change my mind. --John (talk) 23:14, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, I can see that BLPCAT applies. Binksternet (talk) 08:00, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Prop 8
Shouldn't her comment at Yoshi's be that she "spoke out FOR Proposition 8" as opposed to "spoke out against Proposition 8?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.101.218.42 (talk) 14:46, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Yes, she was in favor of Prop 8. Binksternet (talk) 16:26, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The first comment here was me... sorry... I was at home and couldn't find my log-in.
 * albabe -  The Writer /Artist Formally Known as

 * In her comments on the recording, she predicts preachers will be forced to marry homosexuals against their will "if Prop 8 is instated", implying that she either doesn't know what Prop 8 is or doesn't know what the word "instated" means - both kind of hard to believe.  This is probably notable because it supports the view that this was some sort of a breakdown, particularly since in her "apology" she correctly says "repeal" of Prop 8.  Unfortunately, I haven't found a source specifically addressing this discrepancy.Prebys (talk) 18:58, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Al Gordon 21:03, 20 March 2013 (UTC) Lets try to be careful how we handle this latest issue with the figure. We are not here to either protect the figure or slam them. Stay disinterested and please don't edit as a pre-empted strike to head off others. Stick to the facts, and summarize what the reliable sources say and lets not give undue weight to this.--Amadscientist (talk) 01:22, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Uhm...just because the San Francisco Chronicle, and New York times have articles on this issue does not mean we write "The San Francisco Chronicle, and New York times have reported..." If a source is found that actually states this then we can use it, otherwise it is clear OR.--Amadscientist (talk) 02:07, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Shocked Did Not Win the 1989 Grammy for Best Folk Album
It has been erroneously reported on Wikipedia and in a number of news and media outlets (e.g., ) that Shocked won the 1989 Grammy for Best New Folk Album. Shocked did NOT win the Grammy that year, or any other year. Tracy Chapman won the 1989 award. I have added this to the Miscellaneous section, because I think a major source of this erroneous reporting was Wikipedia itself.Binningboy (talk) 17:27, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Along the same lines, everyone is so sure that someone like her would have performed at Lilith Fair that she is constantly referred to as a "Lilith Fair regular" or even "Got her start with Lilith Fair" (I can provide numerous references). Is it worth mentioning that she never toured with Lilith Fair?KaturianKKaturian 21:19, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Undue tag
TheRedPenOfDoom placed an "undue" tag this week on the section regarding her views on homosexuality, giving this comment to justify the tag: "Shocked is a musician. This flufferoo is as long as the content about her music career". The template for the tag says to "Discuss and resolve this issue before removing this message," and so I am doing that.

While Shocked is a musician, it's certainly possible for someone to wear more than one hat -- and it would indeed be undue to cover only her musical output. Her outspokenness on the subject has received extensive coverage: The 2011 speech at the Wild Goose Festival (sourced in the article, but this is an alternate source) received some notice at the time. Then her 2013 rant at Yoshi's has earned her far more attention and coverage than her most recent musical output has.

In addition to the Piers Morgan interview referenced in the article, she conducted media interviews with Nicole Sandler (source), Spin Magazine (source), SFWeekly (source), and an interview with KGO-TV (source) over some subsequent fallout.

Most recently, even after the Yoshi's event, Shocked used Twitter to respond tauntingly to pro-LGBT messages (example).

Her outspokenness on the subject of homosexuality has been going on for a couple of years, and is not a single isolated incident, which makes it more than mere "flufferoo"; I'm of the opinion that the amount of coverage in the article is therefore reasonable, and not undue. --Heath 198.82.199.39 (talk) 21:47, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * you are just establishing the WP:RECENTISM and the UNDUE emphasis given to it. She is not a politician and her comments are not presented as such - they are presented in the "Wow this MUSICIAN is doing some off kilter stuff". -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  22:59, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

 * The "undue" tag is not needed and should be removed. Shocked has long been at the forefront of issues about female sexuality—it's a cornerstone of her popularity. Binksternet (talk) 02:57, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * even if it covered her being at the forefront for a long time, it would still be inappropriate for it to be given equal weight as her music career, and considering it only covers her positions of the last few years and not all of her long time positions it is incredibly overweighted. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  03:03, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Why do you think that her musical career is separate from her female sexual persona? Binksternet (talk) 03:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * well, for one its an article about Michelle Shocked (born Karen Michelle Johnston, February 24, 1962[1]) is an American singer-songwriter. and not Michelle Shocked (born Karen Michelle Johnston, February 24, 1962[1]) is an American female sexual persona . and what we have is what the sources support - Shocked's notability is as a musician, without that her "female sexual persona" would not have achieved any notability. --  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  03:55, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? You think her musical career would have taken off and succeeded without having a basis in her sexual stance? I disagree. Binksternet (talk) 04:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If the article incorporated " basis in her sexual stance", with sources, into the article and then incorporated the current bruhaha in context of her current career, then fine. But thats not whats happening. We have as much text about a handful of recent foot in mouth events as the rest of her career. UNDUE weight. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  20:23, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * "Shocked's notability is as a musician." She can't be notable for more than one thing?

 * As for the number of events being a "handful" -- you are, of course, technically right. But it would be equally correct to say that she had only a "handful" of chart successes, or that MTV never showed more than a "handful" of her videos.

 * Furthermore, Yoshi's was clearly not a mere foot-in-mouth thing, since (1) she very clearly avoided walking back her remarks during the Piers Morgan interview, and (2) following the interview, she doubled down on Twitter with further remarks which have since been made inaccessible with the closing of her account, but which were quoted and discussed elsewhere (example).

 * I welcome your disagreement on the matter, and I agree that the article could be strengthened with a discussion of the theme of sexuality within her music. (The article does however, discuss her late-in-life conversion to Christianity, which appears to be a basis for her beliefs.)  What I don't welcome, though, is your attempt to trivialize her remarks, first by calling them "flufferoo" and then by calling them a mere "handful of recent foot in mouth events".  I'd like this discussion to proceed with more objectivity and consideration.  --Heath 71.62.156.220 (talk) 21:38, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

 * ...but, since your argument is that there is "as much text" in this section as in the section about her musical career, I have considerably expanded the section on her musical career in order to resolve this amicably. In fact, I've managed to include a sourced reference to gender issues within the music section in order to establish that being outspoken on issues of sexuality and gender was something she did prior to 2011 as well. I hope you'll find this satisfactory.  --Heath 71.62.156.220 (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * wikipedia is not here to right the great wrongs of putting someone in their place when they say stupid things, even if they mean them; its an encyclopedia. given the length of the article and the actual importance and impact of the recent comments and flufferoo, they can easily and appropriately be covered in two sentences. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  00:18, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You are way off base here with your accusation that this section is "flufferoo" or based on "Right Great Wrongs", which in any case could not be simultaneously possible. The event had a great impact on Shocked's career, including the cancellation of her tour which had just started. Shocked's career is at a standstill now since she alienated her most loyal fans. The event was monumental within the topic of Shocked's career, so of course it has a lot of text devoted to it. I applaud 71.62's recent expansion work because it addresses the thin complaint of undue weight. Binksternet (talk) 02:18, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I can't chase a moving target, TRPoD. You first objected that one section had "as much text" as the other, and I addressed that.  Now you're objecting that the section has more than "two sentences".  You're still dismissing the matter with the highly POV term "flufferoo" despite my request for something more considerate, which leads me to wonder if you're as serious about building consensus as I had hoped your were.
 * Two sentences for that section is not possible without diminishing the content (her conversion, the 2008 interview, the 2011 Wild Goose Festival appearance, the 2013 Yoshi's appearance, the subsequent cancellation of other tour stops, the Piers Morgan interview). Weight is a matter of relative emphasis within the body of an article, but it now sounds like you want the "weight" issue to be resolved by removing information from the article -- and that gets into the whole inclusionist/deletionist debate, which is a big, far-from-settled, can of worms.
 * The guidelines at WP:UNDUE mention proportionality and prominence in several places. If you will be satisfied only if the views on homosexuality section is made shorter (and not if the section of music is expanded and given greater significance), then your complaint isn't really about undue weight.  Perhaps you think that the section isn't notable?  (The word "flufferoo" suggests as much.)  If so, I think you have a tremendous uphill battle: the notability of her views is easy to establish.
 * I welcome your response, but I ask you first to carefully consider your goal here. --Heath 71.62.156.220 (talk) 14:32, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

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Name Adoption
The article says she adopted the name "Michelle Shocked" in 1984. But I have a video of her on the Coca Crystal using the name Michelle Shocked in January 1983. http://dlib.nyu.edu/findingaids/html/fales/mss_468/dscaspace_677d309ffe7f29cda55ddd8cd563b8b7.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.122.88.142 (talk) 19:22, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Forgot adding
I changed the page and said i fixed the bad links in the references on the page, but I also put back some of the things that were taken out the other day with dead references. Forgot to put that in. I did not mean to leave it out. 203.0.31.68 (talk) 04:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Michelle Shocked


text:
2000 Mexican general election

General elections were held in Mexico on Sunday, 2 July 2000. Voters went to the polls to elect a new president to serve a single six-year term, replacing President Ernesto Zedillo Ponce de León, who was ineligible for re-election under the 1917 Constitution. The election system ran under plurality voting; 500 members of the Chamber of Deputies (300 by the first-past-the-post system and 200 by proportional representation) for three-year terms and 128 members of the Senate (three per state by first-past-the-post – two first-past-the-post seats are allocated to the party with the largest share of the vote; the remaining seat is given to the first runner-up – and 32 by proportional representation from national party lists) for six-year terms.

The presidential election was won by Vicente Fox of the Alliance for Change, who received 43.4% of the vote, the first time the opposition had won an election since the Mexican Revolution. In the congressional elections the Alliance for Change emerged as the largest faction in the Chamber of Deputies with 224 of the 500 seats, whilst the Institutional Revolutionary Party remained the largest faction in the Senate with 60 of the 128 seats in the Senate. Voter turnout was between 63 and 64% in the elections.

This historically significant election made Fox the first president elected from an opposition party since Francisco I. Madero in 1911, as well as the first in 71 years to defeat, with 43 percent of the vote, the then-dominant Institutional Revolutionary Party.

Institutional Revolutionary Party
President Ernesto Zedillo sought to break away from the 71-year-old PRI succession ritual, so the PRI conducted an unprecedented internal process to choose its presidential candidate for the 2000 elections. The president declared, "The so-called dedazo is dead"; dedazo being the term used to refer to the president personally choosing his successor, which roughly translates to "handpicking".

Francisco Labastida Ochoa, Humberto Roque Villanueva, Manuel Bartlett and Roberto Madrazo were the pre-candidates. Despite the president's statement, there was still a sense that Labastida was most likely to become the official candidate due to being the closest to President Zedillo.

Madrazo's confrontation with Labastida during the election was notable, as was Madrazo's "challenging" stance toward Zedillo, exemplified by his campaign slogan, Dale un Madrazo al dedazo ("Give a Madrazo to the dedazo", though it could also be translated as "Give a blow to the handpicking").

On 7 November 1999 the primary election was held, and widespread reports of fraudulent tactics were present. Nevertheless, Madrazo accepted the election's outcome and rejoined the Tabasco government following a meeting with Labastida in Los Pinos, where Zedillo intervened to stop Madrazo from breaking with the PRI. On 20 November Labastida was declared the PRI candidate.

National Action Party
The former Guanajuato governor Vicente Fox Quesada was the only person to seek the National Action Party nomination and was ratified by the party. Pedro Cerisola was his general campaign coordinator.

Party of the Democratic Revolution
Porfirio Muñoz Ledo and Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas declared their interest in being candidates for the Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD), a contest that ended with Muñoz Ledo's dismissal from the party. According to Muñoz Ledo it was inevitable that the same person would run for office a third time if there was no "true democratic process" in the PRD. Muñoz Ledo was later confirmed as the candidate for the Authentic Party of the Mexican Revolution and Cárdenas was designated as the PRD candidate.

Campaign
On 27 April 2000 PAN candidate Vicente Fox sent a letter containing ten points to the apostolic nuncio Leonardo Sandri and the Conference of the Mexican Episcopate, outlining the measures he pledged to take on behalf of the Catholic Church and other Christian churches should he win the presidency. These included advocating for "respect for the right to life from the moment of conception," granting churches access to the media, granting free admission to public health centers, prisons, orphanages and nursing homes for priests and other ministers of worship, standardizing seminary coursework with public institution coursework, in addition to giving churches a unique tax system and allowing them to deduct taxes "when they contribute to human development."

Fox reaffirmed his strong religious stance and identified himself as a devout Catholic. Even though Fox had finally won the presidency, the promises he made to the churches in that letter were not kept given that the PAN failed to secure an absolute majority in the Congress of the Union.

Opinion polls
PRI candidate Francisco Labastida led in nearly all the polls throughout the first months of the campaign, although in the final two months his lead grew smaller; on the other hand, PAN candidate Vicente Fox was at second place in most of the polls, but in May and June his percentage of supporters increased and he led in many of the final polls.

Given that the overwhelming majority of the polls failed to predict Fox's victory and instead had indicated that Labastida would win by comfortable margins, it has been asserted that many of those polled lied about their preferences, fearing that if they stated support for an opposition party, they would be stripped by the PRI of the government assistance programs they were receiving. Indeed, the Reforma newspaper, which had predicted a Labastida victory in all of the polls they published during the campaign, attributed their mistake to the so-called "fear factor".

Conduct
Some isolated incidents of irregularities and problems were reported. For example, one irregularity in the southern state of Campeche involved the European Union electoral observer Rocco Buttiglione and could have created problems for President Ernesto Zedillo had the PRI candidate won. Overall, however, electoral observers identified little evidence that those incidents were centrally coordinated (as opposed to led by local PRI officials), and critics concluded that those irregularities which did occur did not materially alter the outcome of the presidential vote, which had been more definitive than expected.

Civic organizations fielded more than 80,000 trained electoral observers, foreign observers were invited to witness the process, and numerous "quick count" operations and exit polls (not all of them independent) validated the official vote tabulation. The largest exit poll was organized by the U.S. firm Penn, Schoen & Berland, financed by a Dallas-based organization called Democracy Watch with the support of the Vicente Fox campaign, who were concerned about possible election fraud.

Numerous electoral reforms implemented after the widely-derided and fraudulent 1988 election opened up the Mexican political system, and since then opposition parties have made historic gains in elections at all levels. The chief electoral concerns shifted from outright fraud to campaign fairness issues and, between 1995 and 1996, the political parties negotiated constitutional amendments to address these issues. The legislation implemented included major points of consensus that had been worked out with the opposition parties. Under the new laws, public financing predominated over private contributions to political parties, procedures for auditing parties were tightened, and the authority and independence of the electoral institutions were strengthened. The court system was also given greatly expanded authority to hear civil rights cases on electoral matters brought by individuals or groups. In short, the extensive reform efforts of the 1990s "leveled the playing field" for the parties.

Aftermath
On election night, exit polls and preliminary results from the Federal Electoral Institute quickly proclaimed PAN candidate Vicente Fox winner. PRI candidate Francisco Labastida then headed to his party's headquarters to give his concession speech, but just minutes before he was to speak, a message from President Ernesto Zedillo was broadcast on national TV, in which the President himself acknowledged Fox's victory and congratulated him. The fact that the concession first came from the President instead of his party's candidate later caused tensions between Zedillo and Labastida. Fox was sworn-in as President on 1 December, ending 71 years of PRI rule.

23 years later, in 2023, Labastida accused Zedillo of having sabotaged his presidential campaign, stating that Zedillo called three State governors to threaten them and make Labastida's campaign fail, since Zedillo preferred to hand the Presidency over to the opposition party PAN and thus go down in history as a democrat who willingly gave up his party's 71-year hold on the Presidency.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: 2000 Mexican general election


text:
Night of the Ghouls

Night of the Ghouls is a horror film written and directed by Ed Wood. The film was shot between April and May 1958. The film features some reoccurring cast members and characters from Wood's 1955 Bride of the Monster, including Tor Johnson reprising his role of Lobo and Paul Marco again playing the character of Kelton the cop, while the Amazing Criswell plays himself in the frame story of the film. Another returning character is Police Captain Robbins of Homicide, although the character was played by Harvey B. Dunn in Bride, and by Johnny Carpenter in Night.

Plot
At the beginning, Criswell rises from a coffin and narrates the events of the film. Then a montage starts showing juvenile delinquency, street fighting, and driving under the influence. The sequence ends with the bloody corpse of the drunk driver staring blankly at the camera. According to Criswell's narration, this is a rather typical end to "a drunken holiday weekend".

The film then cuts to a teenaged couple kissing in a convertible. When the boy gets too aggressive, the girl slaps him and exits the car. The Black Ghost, an undead creature that lurks in the woods near them, later kills the young couple. The murders receive press attention but are thought to be the work of a maniac.

In a police station of East Los Angeles, California, Inspector Robbins waits for Detective Bradford at his office. Bradford soon arrives, dressed in a formal evening wear. He was called to work while on his way to the opera, and he protests the idea of working an unexpected assignment. But Robbins informs him that the case involves the "old house on Willows lake", which played a part in an earlier case investigated by Bradford. The house was destroyed by lightning, but someone rebuilt it. A flashback scene establishes that the elderly Edwards couple had a terrifying encounter with the White Ghost by this house. Having heard the story, Bradford accepts the assignment to investigate the old house. Robbins assigns Kelton to escort the Detective. Kelton has previously dealt with the supernatural in the events depicted in Bride of the Monster and Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Bradford drives to the house and enters through an open door, to be confronted by Dr. Acula, who is dressed in a turban and cryptically mentions that there are many already in the house, both living and dead. Bradford convinces Acula that he is just another prospective client, so his entrance is accepted. One of "the many" in the house is a remnant of its past, Lobo. A character from Bride, Lobo is depicted as disfigured from the flames which once destroyed this house. Outside the house, Kelton arrives late and has brief encounters with both the Black and the White Ghost. Meanwhile, at a séance, Acula and his clients share the table with human skeletons. Dr. Acula turns out to be a fake psychic by the name of "Karl", as Bradford suspected earlier, and reveals that the White Ghost is an actress named Sheila. Her role is to scare away intruders. She is concerned by the presence of the Black Ghost which is not part of their hoax, though the cynical Acula dismisses her fears. He doesn't believe in the supernatural.

Both Bradford and Kelton have strange and sometimes violent confrontations within the house, and are eventually joined by reinforcements. As their accomplices fall to the police, Karl and Sheila attempt to escape through a mortuary room. There they are confronted by a group of undead men. Among them is Criswell, who is the only one than can speak, explaining to Karl that the supposedly "fake" psychic does have genuine powers and his necromantic efforts actually work. These dead men were restored to life, if only for a few hours, but they intend to take Karl with them in their return to the grave. As Karl dies, Sheila escapes the house to meet her own fate. The Black Ghost, genuinely undead, takes control of the impostor and tells her that it is time to join "the others" at the grave. As the police try to understand what happened to the deceased Karl, we see an undead Sheila, now truly a White Ghost.

In a brief epilogue, the narrator returns to his coffin. Claiming that it is time for both the old dead and the new to return to their graves, he reminds the viewer that they too can soon join them in death.

Cast

 * Kenne Duncan as Dr. Karl Acula
 * Duke Moore as Lt. Dan Bradford (as 'Duke' Moore)
 * Tor Johnson as Lobo (reprising role from Bride of the Monster)
 * Valda Hansen as Sheila, the White Ghost
 * Johnny Carpenter as Capt. Robbins (as John Carpenter) (the character played by Harvey B. Dunn in Bride)
 * Paul Marco as Patrolman Kelton (reprising his role from both Bride and Plan 9 from Outer Space)
 * Don Nagel as Sgt. Crandall
 * Bud Osborne as Mr. Darmoor
 * Jeannie Stevens as The Black Ghost/Mannequin
 * Harvey B. Dunn as Henry Edwards (Dunn played Captain Robbins in Bride)
 * Margaret Mason (Tom Mason's real-life wife) as Martha Edwards
 * Criswell as himself
 * Tom Mason as Undead man in coffin
 * Ed Wood and Conrad Brooks—as Men in Fight sequence (stock footage from Wood's unfinished Hellborn)

Production and analysis
Rob Craig suggests that the film could be in part based on an earlier work, Sucker Money (1933), produced by Willis Kent. The two films have significant similarities in concept. In the earlier film, Swami Yomurda (Mischa Auer) and his minions stage an elaborate scheme to extort money from gullible victims. Yomurda and his group use technological means to convince their victims that they are receiving audiovisual from the otherworld. Craig himself, however, notes that Night cannot be conceived as a straightforward remake, since Wood used the same template to tell a quite different story from the 1930s melodrama.

There are also notable similarities of this film with one of its contemporaries, The Unearthly (1957) by Boris Petroff. In both films the characters gather at an isolated location far from the city, a charismatic deceiver exploits other humans for his own purposes, promising them extraordinary services, undercover agents of the law manage to expose the conspiracies, and the villains meet their fates at the hands of someone they previously exploited. Tor Johnson also plays a character called "Lobo" in both films, and both of the Lobo characters are monstrous manservants working for the main villains. Both films were shot around the same time, though it is unclear if one was intentionally modeled after the other.

The notion of a genuine ghost and a fake one that are active on the same area is not unique to this film. The Ghost Breakers (1940) has a real ghost appear in the end, Spook Chasers (1957) has a real ghost among several fakes, and Ghost of Dragstrip Hollow (1959) has a real ghost residing in a "fake" haunted house.

Craig considers the film to have elements common in absurdist fiction, and also to have much of the pessimism and nihilism of a typical Samuel Beckett play. The opening montage of violence and the death of the drunk driver serve to underscore both the randomness and the lack of meaning of human life and death. The fates of Karl and Sheila are clearly meant to serve as a form of poetic justice, and the finale can also be seen as a triumph of Death over the mortals trying to exploit it. The final words of Criswell also serve to remind viewers of the truth, that everyone dies and that Death is destined to triumph over Life. Craig finds the film to be Wood's version of a requiem.

The film makes extensive use of static two shot, which David Hogan considered to have contributed to making this an "atypically boring" film by Wood. The film's main setting is the rebuilt house on Willows Lake that burned down in Bride of the Monster. There are frequent references to the mad scientist (Bela Lugosi) and Lobo (Tor Johnson), the latter of whom returns, his face now half-destroyed from the fire. The narrative notion that the house by Willow Lake is a recently reconstructed building is contradicted by the actual appearance of the house, which seems to be old and in disrepair. Craig suggests that the house would not look out of place in a Hooverville.

The formal-wearing police investigator seems as a rather anachronistic figure, more reminiscent of a figure from a gothic fiction work or a costume drama. Valda Hansen, who plays the White Ghost, was seen as Wood's ingenue. She had reportedly impressed him with her vivacity and allure. David Hogan considered the spookiest scenes to be the ones featuring either Hansen or Jeannie Stevens, playing the film's ghostly femmes fatales.

Wood, his face hidden by a dark veil, doubled for the Black Ghost in several shots. According to actor Paul Marco, Wood could not get Jeannie Stevens to film these scenes. So he wore the costume and acted as her stand-in. Also, a publicity photo of Wood is seen on a wanted poster on the wall of the police station.

Tom Mason, who doubled for Bela Lugosi in Plan 9 From Outer Space appeared in Night of the Ghouls as one of the undead, while his wife Margaret Mason played the role of "Martha" (the woman in the car frightened by the White Ghost). In 1992, Margaret Mason was one of the people interviewed for the Ed Wood documentary Flying Saucers Over Hollywood: The Plan Nine Companion.

The séances featured in the film have some atypical elements. Skulls are set on the séance table and skeletons are sitting around it. The sound effects and floating trumpet would not be out of place in a 19th-century séance, though the electronically altered voice of the deceased is a far more modern element.

This film is the third part of what Wood aficionados refer to as "The Kelton Trilogy", a trio of films featuring Paul Marco as "Officer Kelton", a whining, reluctant policeman. The other two films were Bride of the Monster and Plan 9 from Outer Space. Although said to be a sequel to Bride of the Monster, Night of the Ghouls featured only two characters from that film (Kelton and Lobo), and, in a retcon, it is claimed that Lt. Bradford had worked on the earlier case when he in fact did not appear in Bride. His exploration of Dr. Acula's house was borrowed from Wood's short film Final Curtain and voice-over narration was added to integrate it into the story. As a result, there was no room for Harvey B. Dunn, who played Captain Tom Robbins in Bride, to reprise his earlier role. Instead, he was given a small supporting role as a frightened motorist who encounters one of the "ghouls". Wood must have written the screenplay for this film before 1956, as he originally planned to star Bela Lugosi in it.

Release
Night of the Ghouls was originally to be called Revenge of the Dead. A December, 1958 article about cast member Valda Hansen described the film as being "soon to be released". (A contemporary article in "Famous Monsters of Filmland" referred to the soon-to-be-released film as "Night of the Ghouls".) Paul Marco recalled in an interview that the film had a preview screening in 1959 at the Vista Theatre in Hollywood. He said that after watching it on the big screen, Wood felt it needed further editing. A 1959 letter from Wood to Anthony Cardoza, the film's associate producer, records some of Wood's plans to re-edit the film, including removing some of Criswell's scenes and replacing them with some Bela Lugosi archive footage, as well as a possible title change. Wood, however, was never able to make the changes since the film's ownership remained under the control of the lab.

Years later, Kansas City film hobbyist-entrepreneur and Ed Wood fan Wade Williams managed to locate the film, paid the long overdue bills to the lab, and claimed full ownership of it. He also gave it its first home video release via VHS in 1984. This was the film's world premiere.

Critical reception
Writing in AllMovie, critic Bruce Eder reported that the film has "the strangeness, in the dialogue and characterizations, that one expects from one of Wood's movies," that "the edges of Wood's budget show more than ever, both onscreen and even in the music," and that it "isn't nearly as diverting [as] Plan 9 From Outer Space." Film critic Glenn Erickson wrote in DVD Talk, "Of course it's terrible," that "the acting is bad," and that compared to other films by Wood, "it's fairly coherent but more than a little boring, populated by less interesting characters than usual."

title: Night of the Ghouls


text:
Talk:Something About Airplanes

 * Someone changed 't' to 'p' in "The Face that Launched 1000 Shits" I appreciate the attempt to revert vandalism, but this IS the name of the song.--Hraefen 15:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Was this album released in 1998 or 1999? There is conflicting info on this page and on the band's page. --82.182.24.17 06:46, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've standardized on 1998, as that is what the band's web site says. --82.182.24.17 07:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

<^>v!!This album is connected!!v<^>

 * All song titles serve as redirects to this album, have their own pages, or have had disambig links placed at the appropriate article or disambiguation page.--Hraefen Talk 21:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DeathCabSomething.jpg
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:27, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Something About Airplanes


text:
Letizia

Letizia is a predominantly Italian feminine given name. People bearing the name Letizia include:
 * Queen Letizia of Spain (born 1972), wife of King Felipe VI
 * Letizia Battaglia (born 1935), Italian photographer and photojournalist
 * Letizia Bertoni (born 1937), Italian hurdler
 * Letizia Camera (born 1992), Italian volleyball player
 * Letizia Ciampa (born 1986), Italian voice actress
 * Letizia Moratti (born 1949), Italian businesswoman and politician
 * Letizia Nuzzo (born 1976), Italian former synchronized swimmer
 * Letizia Paternoster (born 1999), Italian racing cyclist
 * Letizia Paoli (born 1966), Italian criminologist
 * Letizia Quaranta (1892–1977), Italian actress
 * Letizia Ramolino (1750–1836), Italian noble, mother of Napoleon I of France

title: Letizia


text:
Talk:Variegated

This is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of the page entitled Variegated.

This is kept as a historic record.

The result of the debate was to redirect the article to variegation.

Dead end dict def. --Ben Brockert (talk:) 23:29, May 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Transwiki to Wiktionary or else Delete. blankfaze | &#9835 01:04, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
 * A valid encyclopedia topic, but much better article at variegation, so I made variegated a redirect to it. jaknouse 02:16, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, there is. Works for me. Delisting from VfD. --Ben Brockert (:talk:) 02:47, May 24, 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Variegated


text:
Talk:Veasey, Jeff

This is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of the page entitled Veasey, Jeff.

This page is kept as an historic record.

The result of the debate was to redirect the article to GameFAQs.

YA-Gaming-related-VFD. I'm sure Jeff is a swell guy, but being a webmaster is hardly notable. Everything in this article is said in GameFAQs. --Ben Brockert (talk:) 23:34, May 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * This has been voted on before. The decision was to redirect it to GameFAQs (IIRC). Maximus Rex 23:37, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah, Jeff Veasey is redirected so. I'd be happy with the same for Veasey, Jeff. --Ben Brockert (talk:) 00:32, May 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * And now this one has also been redirected. RickK 00:34, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Ok. Not much reason to keep it on VfD then, I've delisted and am moving the debate. --Ben Brockert (talk:) 03:32, May 23, 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Veasey, Jeff


text:
VTEC

VTEC (described as Variable Valve Timing & Lift Electronic Control, but stands for Valve Timing Electronically Controlled) is a system developed by Honda to improve the volumetric efficiency of a four-stroke internal combustion engine, resulting in higher performance at high RPM, and lower fuel consumption at low RPM. The VTEC system uses two (or occasionally three) camshaft profiles and hydraulically selects between profiles. It was invented by Honda engineer Ikuo Kajitani. It is distinctly different from standard VVT (variable valve timing) systems which change only the valve timings and do not change the camshaft profile or valve lift in any way.

Context and description
Japan levies a tax based on engine displacement, and Japanese auto manufacturers have correspondingly focused their research and development efforts toward improving the performance of their smaller engine designs. One method for increasing performance into a static displacement includes forced induction, as with models such as the Toyota Supra and Nissan 300ZX, which used turbocharger applications, and the Toyota MR2, which used a supercharger for some model years. Another approach is the rotary engine used in the Mazda RX-7 and RX-8. A third option is to change the cam timing profile, of which Honda VTEC was the first successful commercial design for altering the profile in real time.

The VTEC system provides the engine with valve timing optimized for both low- and high-RPM operations. In basic form, the single cam lobe and follower/rocker arm of a conventional engine is replaced with a locking multi-part rocker arm and two cam profiles: one optimized for low-RPM stability and fuel efficiency, and the other designed to maximize high-RPM power output. The switching operation between the two cam lobes is controlled by the ECU, which takes account of engine oil pressure, engine temperature, vehicle speed, engine speed, and throttle position. Using these inputs, the ECU is programmed to switch from the low-lift to the high-lift cam lobes when certain conditions are met. At the switch point, a solenoid is actuated that allows oil pressure from a spool valve to operate a locking pin, which binds the high-RPM rocker arm to the low-RPM ones. From this point on, the valves open and close according to the high-lift profile, which opens the valve further and for a longer time. The switch-over point is variable, between a minimum and maximum point, and is determined by engine load. The switch-down back from high- to low-RPM cams is set to occur at a lower engine speed than the switch-up (representing a hysteretic cycle) to avoid a situation in which the engine is asked to operate continuously at or around the switch-over point.

The older approach to timing adjustments is to produce a camshaft with a valve timing profile that is better suited to low-RPM operation. The improvements in low-RPM performance, which is where most street-driven automobiles operate a majority of the time, occur in trade for a power and efficiency loss at higher-RPM ranges. Correspondingly, VTEC attempts to combine low-RPM fuel efficiency and stability with high-RPM performance.

History
VTEC, the original Honda variable valve control system, originated from REV (Revolution-Modulated Valve Control) introduced on the CBR400 in 1983 known as HYPER VTEC. In the regular four-stroke automobile engine, the intake and exhaust valves are actuated by lobes on a camshaft. The shape of the lobes determines the timing, lift and duration of each valve. Timing refers to an angle measurement of when a valve is opened or closed with respect to the piston position (BTDC or ATDC). Lift refers to how much the valve is opened. Duration refers to how long the valve is kept open. Due to the behavior of the working fluid (air and fuel mixture) before and after combustion, which have physical limitations on their flow, as well as their interaction with the ignition spark, the optimal valve timing, lift and duration settings under low RPM engine operations are very different from those under high RPM. Optimal low RPM valve timing lift and duration settings would result in insufficient filling of the cylinder with fuel and air at high RPM, thus greatly limiting engine power output. Conversely, optimal high RPM valve timing lift and duration settings would result in very rough low RPM operation and difficult idling. The ideal engine would have fully variable valve timing, lift and duration, in which the valves would always open at exactly the right point, lift high enough and stay open just the right amount of time for the engine speed and load in use.

DOHC VTEC
VTEC was introduced as a DOHC (dual overhead camshaft) system in Japan in the 1989 Honda Integra XSi, which used the 160 bhp B16A engine. The same year, Europe saw the arrival of VTEC in the Honda Civic and Honda CRX 1.6i-VT, using a 150 bhp B16A1 variant. The United States market saw its first VTEC system with the introduction of the 1991 Acura NSX, which used a 3-litre DOHC C30A V6 with 270 bhp. DOHC VTEC engines soon appeared in other vehicles, such as the 1992 Acura Integra GS-R (160 bhpB17A1), and later in the 1993 Honda Prelude VTEC (195 bhp H22A) and Honda Del Sol VTEC (160 bhp B16A3). The Integra Type R (1995–2000) available in the Japanese market produces 197 bhp using a B18C 1.8-litre engine, producing more horsepower per litre than most super-cars at the time. Honda has also continued to develop other varieties and today offers several varieties of VTEC, such as i-VTEC and i-VTEC Hybrid.

SOHC VTEC
Honda also applied the system to SOHC (single overhead camshaft) engines such as the D-Series and J-Series Engines, which share a common camshaft for both intake and exhaust valves. The trade-off was that Honda's SOHC engines benefited from the VTEC mechanism only on the intake valves. This is because VTEC requires a third center rocker arm and cam lobe (for each intake and exhaust side), and, in the SOHC engine, the spark plugs are situated between the two exhaust rocker arms, leaving no room for the VTEC rocker arm. Additionally, the center lobe on the camshaft cannot be utilized by both the intake and the exhaust, limiting the VTEC feature to one side.

However, beginning with the J37A2 3.7L SOHC V6 engine introduced on all 2009-2012 Acura RL SH-AWD models, SOHC VTEC was incorporated for use with intake and exhaust valves, using a total of six cam lobes and six rocker arms per cylinder. The intake and exhaust rocker shafts contain primary and secondary intake and exhaust rocker arms, respectively. The primary rocker arm contains the VTEC switching piston, while the secondary rocker arm contains the return spring. The term "primary" does not refer to which rocker arm forces the valve down during low-RPM engine operation. Rather, it refers to the rocker arm which contains the VTEC switching piston and receives oil from the rocker shaft.

The primary exhaust rocker arm contacts a low-profile camshaft lobe during low-RPM engine operation. Once VTEC engagement occurs, the oil pressure flowing from the exhaust rocker shaft into the primary exhaust rocker arm forces the VTEC switching piston into the secondary exhaust rocker arm, thereby locking both exhaust rocker arms together. The high-profile camshaft lobe which normally contacts the secondary exhaust rocker arm alone during low-RPM engine operation is able to move both exhaust rocker arms together which are locked as a unit. The same occurs for the intake rocker shaft, except that the high-profile camshaft lobe operates the primary rocker arm.

The J37A2 is able to use both intake and exhaust VTEC by use of a novel design of the intake rocker arm. Each exhaust valve on the J37A2 corresponds to one primary and one secondary exhaust rocker arm. Therefore, there are a total of twelve primary exhaust rocker arms and twelve secondary exhaust rocker arms. However, each secondary intake rocker arm is shaped similar to a "Y" which allows it to contact two intake valves at once. One primary intake rocker arm corresponds to each secondary intake rocker arm. As a result of this design, there are only six primary intake rocker arms and six secondary intake rocker arms.

VTEC-E
The earliest VTEC-E implementation is a variation of SOHC VTEC which is used to increase combustion efficiency at low RPM while maintaining the mid range performance of non-vtec engines. VTEC-E is the first version of VTEC to employ the use of roller rocker arms and because of that, it forgoes the need for having 3 intake lobes for actuating the two valves—two lobes for non-VTEC operation (one small and one medium-sized lobe) and one lobe for VTEC operation (the biggest lobe). Instead, there are two different intake cam profiles per cylinder: a very mild cam lobe with little lift and a normal cam lobe with moderate lift. Because of this, at low RPM, when VTEC is not engaged, one of the two intake valves is allowed to open only a very small amount due to the mild cam lobe, forcing most of the intake charge through the other open intake valve with the normal cam lobe. This induces swirl of the intake charge which improves air/fuel atomization in the cylinder and allows for a leaner fuel mixture to be used. As the engine's speed and load increase, both valves are needed to supply a sufficient mixture. When engaging VTEC mode, a pre-defined threshold for MPH (must be moving), RPM and load must be met before the computer actuates a solenoid which directs pressurized oil into a sliding pin, just like with the original VTEC. This sliding pin connects the intake rocker arm followers together so that, now, both intake valves are following the "normal" camshaft lobe instead of just one of them. When in VTEC, since the "normal" cam lobe has the same timing and lift as the intake cam lobes of the SOHC non-VTEC engines, both engines have identical performance in the upper powerband assuming everything else is the same. This variant of the VTEC-E is used in some D-series engines.

With the later VTEC-E implementations, the only difference it has with the earlier VTEC-E is that the second normal cam profile has been replaced with a more aggressive cam profile which is identical to the original VTEC high-speed cam profile. This in essence supersedes VTEC and the earlier VTEC-E implementations since the fuel and low RPM torque benefits of the earlier VTEC-E are combined with the high performance of the original VTEC. There are 3 intake cam lobes: 2 for the low-RPM mode (1 for almost closed valve, 1 for normally opened) and 1 for the powerful mode when the VTEC solenoid is activated. The lowest RPM for activating the VTEC is 2500, or it may be higher if the load is weak - ECM dependant. With the VTEC solenoid is on the 3-rd biggest lobe begins to push all the intake valves with the more aggressively profile. This variant of the VTEC-E is used in the F23A, F22B and JDM F20B SOHC VTEC engines.

3-Stage VTEC
3-Stage VTEC is a version that employs three different cam profiles to control intake valve timing and lift. Due to this version of VTEC being designed around a SOHC valve head, space was limited; so VTEC can modify only the opening and closing of the intake valves. The low-end fuel economy improvements of VTEC-E and the performance of conventional VTEC are combined in this application. From idle to 2500-3000 RPM, depending on load conditions, one intake valve fully opens while the other opens just slightly, enough to prevent pooling of fuel behind the valve, also called 12-valve mode. This 12 Valve mode results in swirl of the intake charge which increases combustion efficiency, resulting in improved low end torque and better fuel economy. At 3000-5400 RPM, depending on load, one of the VTEC solenoids engages, which causes the second valve to lock onto the first valve's camshaft lobe. Also called 16-valve mode, this method resembles a normal engine operating mode and improves the mid-range power curve. At 5500-7000 RPM, the second VTEC solenoid engages (both solenoids now engaged) so that both intake valves are using a middle, third camshaft lobe. The third lobe is tuned for high-performance and provides peak power at the top end of the RPM range.

In newer version of 3-Stage i-VTEC combined VTC and PGM-FI to allow ECU to control full range of mode to archive greater fuel economy improvements and performance. Honda CR-Z able to switch between low-end mode and standard mode from 1000 rpm to 2250 rpm uninterrupted and engage to high cam mode from 2250 rpm upward on SOHC.

i-VTEC
Honda i-VTEC (intelligent-VTEC) is a system that combines VTEC with Honda's VTC (Variable Timing Control), a continuously variable camshaft phasing system used on the intake camshaft of DOHC VTEC engines. The technology first appeared on Honda's K-series four-cylinder engine family in 2001. Most Honda or Acura four-cylinder powered vehicles sold in the United States used i-VTEC by the 2002 model year with the exception being the 2002 Honda Accord.

VTEC controls of valve lift and valve duration are still limited to distinct low- and high-RPM profiles, but the intake camshaft is now capable of advancing between 25 and 50 degrees, depending upon engine configuration. Phasing is implemented by a computer-controlled, oil-driven adjustable cam sprocket. Both engine load and RPM affect VTEC. The intake phase varies from fully retarded at idle to somewhat advanced at full throttle and low RPM. The effect is further optimization of torque output, especially at low and midrange RPM. There are two types of i-VTEC K series engines which are explained in the next section.

Honda's J-Series SOHC engines use an entirely different system also, confusingly, marketed as i-VTEC. Honda J-Series Engines using i-VTEC combine SOHC VTEC operation with Honda VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) variable displacement technology to improve fuel economy under light loads.

K-Series
The K-Series engines have two different types of i-VTEC system implementations. The first type is for performance engines like the K20A2 or K20Z3 used in the 2002-2006 RSX Type S or the 2006-2011 Civic Si and the second type is for economy engines like the K20A3 or K24A4 used in the 2002-2005 Civic Si or 2003-2007 Accord. The performance i-VTEC system is basically the same as the DOHC VTEC system of the B16A's. Both intake and exhaust cams have three cam lobes per cylinder. However, the valvetrain has the added benefit of roller rockers and VTC continuously variable intake cam timing. Performance i-VTEC is a combination of conventional DOHC VTEC with VTC (which operates for intake valves only). The VTC is available in the economy and performance i-VTEC engines.

The economy i-VTEC used in K20A3/K24A4 engines is more like the SOHC VTEC-E in that the intake cam has only two lobes, one very small and one larger, as well as no VTEC on the exhaust cam. At low RPM only one valve on the intake opens fully, promoting combustion chamber swirl and improved fuel atomization. This allows a leaner air/fuel mixture to be used, improving fuel economy. At higher RPM, both intake valves run off the larger intake cam lobe, improving total air flow and top-end power.

The two types of engines are easily distinguishable by the factory rated power output: the performance engines make around 200 hp or more in stock form, while the economy engines do not make much more than 160 hp.

R-Series
The i-VTEC system in the R-Series engine uses a modified SOHC VTEC system consisting of one small and two large lobes. The large lobes operate the intake valves directly while the small lobe is engaged during VTEC. Unlike typical VTEC systems, the system in the R-Series engine operates in a 'reverse' fashion engaging only at low to mid RPMs. At low RPMs, the small lobe locks onto one of the larger lobes and keeps one of the intake valves partially open during the compression cycle, similar to the Atkinson cycle. The ability for Honda to switch between Atkinson cycle and normal cycle allows excellent fuel efficiency without sacrificing too much performance.

i-VTEC with Variable Cylinder Management (VCM)
In 2003, Honda introduced an i-VTEC V6 (an update of the J-series) that includes Honda's cylinder deactivation technology which closes the valves on one bank of (3) cylinders during light load and low speed (below 80 km/h) operation. According to Honda, VCM technology works on the principle that a vehicle only requires a fraction of its power output at cruising speeds. The system electronically deactivates cylinders to reduce fuel consumption. The engine is able to run on 3, 4, or all 6 cylinders based on the power requirement, essentially getting the best of both worlds. V6 power when accelerating or climbing, as well as the efficiency of a smaller engine when cruising. The technology was originally introduced to the US on the 2005 Honda Odyssey minivan, and can now be found on the Honda Accord Hybrid, the 2006 Honda Pilot, and the 2008 Honda Accord. Example: EPA estimates for the 2011 (271 hp SOHC 3.5L) V6 Accord are 24 mpg combined vs. 27 in the two 4-cylinder-equipped models.

i-VTEC VCM was also used in the 1.3-liter LDA engine used in the 2001-2005 Honda Civic Hybrid.

i-VTEC i
A version of i-VTEC with direct injection, first used in 2004 Honda Stream. Direct injection 2.0L DOHC i-VTEC I gasoline engine.

 * The 2-litre DOHC i-VTEC I integrates the i-VTEC system which uses the VTEC and VTC which uses a direct injection system for an air-fuel ratio of up to 65:1 for an unprecedented level of ultra-lean combustion. Stable combustion is achieved by using less fuel than conventional direct injection engines which have an air-fuel ratio of 40:1.
 * Combustion control through the use of high-precision EGR valves and a newly developed high-performance catalyst enable the 2.0 litre DOHC i-VTEC I lean-burn direct injection engine which qualify as an Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle.

AVTEC
The AVTEC (Advanced VTEC) engine was first announced in 2006. It combines continuously variable valve lift and timing control with continuously variable phase control. Honda originally planned to produce vehicles with AVTEC engines within next 3 years. Although it was speculated that it would first be used in 2008 Honda Accord, the vehicle instead utilizes the existing i-VTEC system. As of late 2017, no Honda vehicles use the AVTEC system.

Differences from other VTECs
Honda's advanced VTEC technology departs greatly from its previous incarnations by no longer relying on switching between two sets of lobes on a given camshaft. It instead uses a single cam lobe per valve, and two rocker arms per valve whereby the second rocker arm has a movable pivot point, thereby providing the varying cam lift. Advanced VTEC motors still use the now standard oil pressure controlled variable cam gear angle mechanism. With these two technologies combined Honda has developed an infinitely variable valve timing and lift system ("VVTL"). Previous versions of VTEC included only staged VVTL i.e. High-Low. With the introduction of i-VTEC the systems gained infinitely variable valve timing but still only staged lift i.e. High-Low. The "infinitely variable" portion of the A-VTEC is what makes it stand out as a serious evolutionary step in the world of VTEC.

Patent
A related U.S. patent (6,968,819) was filed on January 5, 2005.

Advanced VTEC has a standard camshaft and rocker arms, attached as they normally are with camshaft overhead, and rocker arms pushing down on the poppet valves. The camshaft is surrounded by a partially open drum which has secondary rocker arms attached to it via a pivoting point. These secondary rocker arms, which have a varying depth profile (similar to cams), are directly actuated by the camshaft, in a scissor-like manner. The primary rocker arms are actuated by the secondary (drum attached) rocker arms. The drum will only rotate to advance or retard the position of the secondary rocker arms, to take advantage of their varying profiles. Thus, through varying the position of the drum about its axis, each cam profile is changed to an optimal height for maximum engine performance without sacrificing fuel efficiency at lower speeds.

VTEC TURBO
The VTEC TURBO engine series were introduced in 2013 as part of the Earth Dreams Technology range and include new features such as gasoline direct injection, turbochargers, Dual Cam VTC and VTEC on the exhaust profile instead of the intake, marking the end of the 'traditional sound' of VTEC in this engine. VTEC implementation on the exhaust rocker arms causes the turbo to be spooled quicker, eliminating turbo lag. VTEC Turbo engines come in three displacement capacities: a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder, a 1.5 liter 4-cylinder, and a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder.

Initial implementation for European vehicles included 2-litre 4-cylinder turbocharged engine used from 2015 Honda Civic Type R until present, which included Euro 6 emissions compliance.

VTEC in motorcycles
Apart from the Japanese market-only Honda CB400SF Super Four HYPER VTEC, introduced in 1999, the first worldwide implementation of VTEC technology in a motorcycle occurred with the introduction of Honda's VFR800 sportbike in 2002. Similar to the SOHC VTEC-E style, one intake valve remains closed until a threshold of 6800 (6600 after 2006) RPM is reached, then the second valve is opened by an oil-pressure actuated pin. The dwell of the valves remains unchanged, as in the automobile VTEC-E, and little extra power is produced, but with a smoothing-out of the torque curve. Critics maintain that VTEC adds little to the VFR experience, while increasing the engine's complexity. Honda seemed to agree, as their VFR1200, a model announced in October 2009, came to replace the VFR800, which abandons the VTEC concept in favor of a large capacity narrow-vee "unicam", i.e., SOHC, engine. However, the 2014 VFR800 reintroduced the VTEC system from the 2002-2009 VFR motorcycle.

Honda incorporated the technology into the NC700 series, including the NC700D Integra, released in 2012, using a single camshaft to provide two timing routines for the intake valves.

title: VTEC