text:
Lauterbrunnen–Mürren Mountain Railway

The Lauterbrunnen–Mürren Mountain Railway (Bergbahn Lauterbrunnen–Mürren, BLM, also known as Mürrenbahn) is a hybrid transport system in the Bernese Oberland area of Switzerland, which connects the villages of Lauterbrunnen and Mürren. The system consists of a connected aerial cableway, also known as the Grütschalpbahn, and an adhesion worked mountain railway. The cableway replaced a funicular, on the same route, in 2010.

The line provides a vital passenger and goods link to the resort village of Mürren, which is situated above the cliffs of the Lauterbrunnen Valley and has poor road access. It also commands a view of the Eiger, Mönch and Jungfrau mountains across the depths of that valley.

The line is owned by the Bergbahn Lauterbrunnen-Mürren AG, a subsidiary of the Jungfraubahn Holding AG, a holding company that also owns the Wengernalpbahn, Jungfraubahn, Harderbahn, and Firstbahn. Through that holding company it is part of the Allianz - Jungfrau Top of Europe marketing alliance, which also includes the separately owned Berner Oberland-Bahn and Schynige Platte-Bahn.

History
The key milestones in the history of the line are:
 * 1887 Concession obtained for the construction of the railways.
 * 1889 The company is formed and construction starts.
 * 1891 Railway opens. The planned opening on 1 June is delayed until 14 August due to a derailment.
 * 1902 The funicular railway is converted from water gravity power to electric power.
 * 1910 First winter operations started.
 * 1912 Replacement of the locomotives on the Mürren to Grütschalp section by motor coaches (type BDe 2/4).
 * 1949 New vehicles and rope are installed on the Lauterbrunnen to Grütschalp section.
 * 1965 The new station at Mürren is opened.
 * 1994 The freight loading operations at Grütschalp are rebuilt.
 * 2006 Last operation of the funicular from Lauterbrunnen to Grütschalp was on 23 April and the first operation of the replacement cable car was on 16 December.

Route
The BLM commences from Lauterbrunnen, using a terminus that is directly opposite the platforms of the Berner Oberland-Bahn (BOB) to Interlaken, and the Wengernalpbahn (WAB) to Kleine Scheidegg and Grindelwald. The first section of the line is an aerial cableway that rises 690 m in a distance of 1.4 km. The cableway follows the line of the funicular that preceded it, and the remains of the funicular are visible at many points. The aerial cableway and railway connect at Grütschalp station, where both lines are within a single building, which also contains the line's workshop. A complex transfer machine in the station is used to transfer goods between the two sections and is well used since road access to Mürren is virtually impossible. The same machine was used to transfer goods between the funicular and rail, and has been retained for use with the cable car.

From Grütschalp to Mürren the line is continued as a 4.27 km long narrow gauge electric railway, which rises 152 m. Through most of its length, the rail line commands a view of the Eiger, Mönch and Jungfrau across the depths of the Lauterbrunnen Valley. The railway has a single intermediate calling point, at Winteregg station, and runs to a terminus at Mürren station, where the platforms used by passengers are enclosed within a modern station building. Just before the station is reached, the line passes a large freight depot, used in the carriage of freight to Mürren.

Cable car
The cable car section of the line is operated by a single cable car, which shuttles between Lauterbrunnen and Grütschalp with a journey time of 4 minutes. The car has an upper passenger level, carrying up to 100 passengers, and a lower level capable of carrying 6 tonnes of freight. The cable car is scheduled with the railway to provide a through journey frequency of between two and four services per hour.

Rail infrastructure
The rail line is single-track, with a passing loop at Winteregg station. It has a track gauge of and is electrified at 550 V DC supplied by overhead line. The line is operated using rail adhesion only, and has a maximum gradient of 5%. The former funicular shared the same track gauge, enabling the use of the funicular to transfer rolling stock to and from the electric railway.

The rail section is operated by single electric railcars, often towing or pushing a flat car for goods, with a journey time of 14 minutes. The railway is scheduled with the cable car to provide a through journey frequency of between two and four services per hour.

Rail vehicles
The rail line uses the following self-propelled vehicles:

In addition there are four low-floor flat cars, which are pushed or pulled by the passenger cars and carry demountable bodies that can be transferred to the cable car, and a number of unpowered works vehicles.

Future developments
In order to meet legislative requirement for disabled access, it is planned to replace the current fleet with modern low-floor vehicles. In September 2019 it was announced that Jungfraubahn Holding AG had awarded Stadler Rail at Bussnang a contract to supply three trainsets for at a cost of 17.3m Swiss francs. In addition, Mürren railway station, other stations and the Grütschalp workshop will be modernised. The first car of the three trainsets was delivered in November 2023, and the second on May 13 2024.

title: Lauterbrunnen–Mürren Mountain Railway


text:
Charles Theodore, Elector of Bavaria

Charles Theodore (Karl Theodor; 11 December 1724 – 16 February 1799) was a German nobleman of the Sulzbach branch of the House of Wittelsbach. He became Count Palatine of Sulzbach from his father Johann Christian in 1733, at the age of six. With the death of his cousin, Charles III Philip, he became Prince-elector and Count Palatine of the Rhine in 1742, being eighteen. In his fifties, he became Prince-Elector of Bavaria at the death of another cousin, Maximilian III Joseph, in 1777.

Family and ascent
Charles Theodore was born into Palatinate-Sulzbach branch of the House of Wittelsbach. His father was Johann Christian, who later became Count Palatine of Sulzbach. His mother was Marie-Anne-Henriette-Leopoldine de La Tour d'Auvergne, Margravine of Bergen op Zoom, a grandniece of Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne, Viscount of Turenne. He was born in Drogenbos near Brussels and educated in Mannheim.

Charles Theodore was the Margrave of Bergen op Zoom from 1728 onwards. He then succeeded his father as Count Palatine of Sulzbach in 1733 and inherited the Electoral Palatinate and the duchies of Jülich and Berg in 1742, with the death of Charles III Philip, Elector Palatine. To strengthen the union of all lines of the Wittelsbach dynasty Charles III Philip had organised a wedding on 17 January 1742 when his granddaughter Elizabeth Augusta was married to Charles Theodore and her sister Maria Anna to the Bavarian prince Clement.

As reigning prince-elector of the Palatinate, Charles Theodore won the hearts of his subjects by founding an academy of science, stocking up the museums' collections and supporting the arts. When Maximilian III Joseph of Bavaria died in 1777, Charles Theodore became also elector and duke of Bavaria and moved to Munich.

Bavarian succession
Charles Theodore did not immediately take up his new title. He had several mistresses and many illegitimate children. However, those children could inherit neither the Electorate of Bavaria nor that of the Palatinate; Charles Theodore needed territory that he could bequeath to his illegitimate children. Charles Theodore also dreamed of resurrecting the Burgundian Empire of the Middle Ages.

On 3 January 1778, shortly after the death of Max Joseph, Charles Theodore signed an agreement with Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor to exchange southern Bavaria for part of the Austrian Netherlands.

The plan was strongly opposed by Maria Anna Sophia of Saxony, the widow of Max Joseph, and Charles Theodore's cousin Charles II August, Duke of Zweibrücken, the head of the House of Palatinate-Birkenfeld and the next heir of Bavaria and the Palatinate. They were supported by Frederick II of Prussia and most of the German minor states.

The ensuing diplomatic crisis led to the War of the Bavarian Succession, which was ended by the Peace of Teschen (1779). Charles Theodore accepted the Bavarian succession but agreed that his illegitimate descendants could not inherit Bavaria. Austria acquired the Innviertel, a part of Bavaria in the basin of the Inn River.

Charles Theodore had only one son, Franz Ludwig Josef, with his wife, Countess Elizabeth Augusta of Sulzbach, who died a day after birth. His wife died in 1794. In 1795, he married Maria Leopoldine of Austria-Este, Joseph's niece, but they had no children. A second proposal to exchange Bavaria for the Austrian Netherlands in 1784 also failed as Frederick II of Prussia initiated the Fürstenbund.

When Charles Theodore died, Bavaria and the Palatinate passed to his cousin, Max Joseph, Duke of Zweibrücken, the younger brother of Charles August, who had died in 1795.

In 1989, Marvin E. Thomas argued in  Karl Theodor and the Bavarian Succession, 1777–1778 that Charles Theodore had wanted to maintain possession of his new territory, as is shown in his diplomatic correspondence. It is more widely understood that Charles Theodore continued the despotic and expensive habits he had developed as Elector Palatine.

Rule as elector of Bavaria
Charles Theodore never became popular as a ruler in Bavaria. according to his critic Lorenz von Westenrieder. He attempted, without success, to exchange the electoral lands of Bavaria for the Austrian Netherlands and a royal crown, and he never managed to control the mounting social tensions in Bavaria. After a dispute with Munich's city council, he even moved the electoral residence in 1788 to Mannheim but returned only one year later.

In 1785, he appointed the American Loyalist exile Benjamin Thompson as his aide-de-camp and chamberlain. Over the next 11 years, Thompson reformed the Bavarian Army and many aspects of the state, rose to high ministerial rank with Charles Theodore's backing and became Count von Rumford.

Charles Theodore is also known for disbanding Adam Weishaupt's order of the Illuminati in 1785.

In 1794, the French Revolutionary Army occupied the Duchy of Jülich; in 1795, they invaded the Palatinate; and in 1796, they marched towards Bavaria. Charles Theodore begged Francis II for help that would have made Bavaria a puppet state of Austria. When he died of a stroke in Munich in 1799, the population in Munich celebrated for several days. He is buried in the crypt of the Theatinerkirche in Munich.

Despite the mutual dislike and distrust between the elector and his Bavarian subjects, Charles Theodore left a distinctive mark on the city of Munich. It was during his reign that the English Garden, Munich's largest park, was created, and the city's old fortifications were dismantled to make place for a modern, expanding city. One of Munich's major squares, Karlsplatz, is named after Charles Theodore. Munich natives, however, seldom use that name, calling the square instead Stachus, after the pub "Beim Stachus" that was located there until construction work for Karlsplatz began, mainly because Charles Theodore, as noted above, never enjoyed the popularity in Bavaria that he enjoyed in the Palatinate.

Character
Charles Theodore was more interested in arts and philosophy than in politics. The British Victorian historian Thomas Carlyle referred to him as a "poor idle creature, of purely egoistical, ornamental, dilettante nature; sunk in theatricals, bastard children and the like; much praised by Voltaire, who sometimes used to visit him; and Collini, to whom he [Charles Theodore] is a kind master."

The French foreign minister, Charles Gravier, comte de Vergennes, knew him and described his foibles even more succinctly:
 * "Although by nature intelligent, he has never succeeded in ruling by himself; he has always been governed by his ministers or by his father-confessor or (for a time) by the [E]lectress [his wife]. This conduct has increased his natural weakness and apathy to such a degree that for a long time he has had no opinions save those inspired in him by his entourage. The void which this indolence has left in his soul is filled with the amusements of the hunt and of music and by secret liaisons, for which His Electoral Majesty has at all times had a particular penchant."

In the course of his career, Charles Theodore acquired a celebrated secretary when the Florentine noble, Cosimo Alessandro Collini (1727–1806), who had been Voltaire's secretary, accepted his patronage and remained in the Palatinate. Although Charles Theodore certainly wished to acquire more territory, he had only illegitimate natural sons and so he preferred territory that he could dispose of through his testament, rather than territory encumbered by a legal entailment that he could pass only to a legitimate son.

Cultural legacy
Charles Theodore was a great lover of the arts, including drama and especially music. His Mannheim court orchestra was considered one of the finest in its time. The Mannheim School (including composer Christian Cannabich and conductor Johann Stamitz) did groundbreaking work that the celebrated Wiener Klassik would later draw upon. Mozart applied for a position with the Mannheim orchestra in 1777, but was turned down, as the court was about to move to Munich. In 1780, Charles Theodore commissioned Idomeneo from the composer. Mozart quotes him as saying "No music has ever made such an impression on me. It is magnificent."

In keeping with the customs of the time, an Italian opera company as well as a troupe of French actors were employed at Mannheim, each performing in their respective tongues. Later, the Nationaltheater (national theatre) was established, one of the first theatres in Germany to exclusively showcase plays in the native tongue (most notably, the first staging of Schiller's "Die Räuber" in 1782).

In the visual arts, a massive collection of plaster casts taken from celebrated antique works was assembled at Mannheim. The pre-existing Düsseldorf gallery, including many works by Rubens, was first transferred to Mannheim, then to Munich, where it was later incorporated in the Alte Pinakothek. While none of the Mannheim painters are particularly notable today (with the possible exception of Kobell, primarily a master of landscapes), the elector had several highly talented sculptors at his disposal, among them Peter Anton von Verschaffelt, Peter Simon Lamine and Konrad Linck. Linck also distinguished himself as a designer of porcelain figurines at Frankenthal.

Charles Theodore's chief architect Nicolas de Pigage was charged to complete the Mannheim Palace, design the Schlosstheater and the gardens at Schwetzingen Palace (including numerous pavilions, among them several artificial "Roman" ruins and a "mosque") as well as Benrath palace. While these works are in a pure contemporary French style (marked by the transition from late Baroque to early classicism), some of the other architects employed by Charles Theodore were proponents of a more Italianate style. This mixture of influences is, in fact, typical of many German courts of the period. Charles Theodore was also responsible for the construction of the Old Bridge in Heidelberg, which bears his name as the Karl-Theodor-Brücke. Charles Theodore liked to style himself as a prince of peace, in contrast to other princes like his chief political opponent, the great warrior Frederick the Great of Prussia. Allegorically, Minerva, the Roman goddess of wisdom and protectress of the arts, is often depicted as a stand-in for the elector himself. This self-view is best summed up in the inscription of a small monument at Schwetzingen:

"A field of war and death of Romans and Germans has been discovered, through the unearthing of weapons, urns and bones, in the year 1765.  –  To the arts of peace, which are the sole joys of his life, the elector Charles Theodore has dedicated this spot, excavated to the height of seven feet, and had this monument erected in 1768."

Marriages and children
On 17 January 1742, in Mannheim, he married Elisabeth Auguste, daughter of Count Palatine Joseph Charles of Sulzbach and his consort Countess Palatine Elizabeth Augusta Sophie of Neuburg. There was one child of this marriage who died in infancy, Francis Louis Joseph (28 – 29 June 1761).

On 15 February 1795, in Innsbruck, he married Archduchess Maria Leopoldine of Austria-Este. There were no children of this marriage.

Illegitimate children
From his liaison with the actress Françoise Després-Verneuil, later Countess von Parkstein (d. 1765): From his liaison with Maria Josefa Seyfert, Countess von Heydeck (17481771): From his liaison with Countess Maria Anna zu Leiningen-Westerburg-Neuleiningen (1741–1835), widow of Count Franz Friedrich von Sayn-Wittgenstein-Vallendar (1702–1769):
 * 1) Karoline Franziska Dorothea, Countess von Parkstein (1762 – 7 September 1816, Ickelheim); married Prince Friedrich Wilhelm zu Isenburg-Büdingen-Birstein (13 December 1730, Birstein – 12 October 1804, Mannheim)
 * 2) son (1764–1765)
 * 1) Karoline Josepha von Bretzenheim (27 January 1768 – 27 April 1786); married Count Maximilian Josef von Holnstein (20 May 1760 – 1838) in 1784
 * 2) Karl August, Count of Heydeck, later Reichsfürst von Bretzenheim, (24 December 1769 – 27 February 1823) married Princess Maria Walburga von Oettingen-Spielberg (29 August 1766 – 8 May 1833) on 27 April 1788, Oettingen
 * 3) Eleonore Karoline von Bretzenheim (9 December 1771 – 23 December 1832); married Count Wilhelm Karl von Leiningen-Billigheim (5 July 1737 – 26 January 1809) on 21 November 1787 (divorced 1801)
 * 4) Friederike Karoline von Bretzenheim (9 December 1771 – 2 March 1816), twin with Eleonore; married Count Maximilian von Westerholt-Gysenberg (1772 – 19 April 1854) in 1796
 * 1) Karoline von Ezenried (31 August 1771 Münstereifel – 24 September 1828, Schloss Laim bei München, married with Dr. Joseph Reubel, Professor of Medicine, University of München)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Charles Theodore, Elector of Bavaria


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Talk:Minnesota Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party

Ideologies
The MN DFL is not communist or socialist. Not once in my interaction with the party have I ever seen any evidence of such. This should be common sense. --97.112.60.202 (talk) 03:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Also, why is the DFL considered to espouse "Social Democratic" views. Not a single other state Democratic party is considered social democratic on Wikipedia and neither is the national party. What sets the DFL apart in this regard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.154.202 (talk) 19:47, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

leaving?
The article says "Several conservative Democratic candidates and officeholders have now left the party, some of them moving to the Independence Party of Minnesota, which considers itself a centrist party; among them are Tim Penny, Peter Hutchinson and Tammy Lee."
 * The wording in that paragraph seems exaggerated and a bit misleading to me.
 * "Several" -- are there any more than the 3 mentioned? And since the DFL runs over 200 candidates in a statewide election -- how many of them makes up several?
 * "candidates and officeholders" -- the first 2 mentioned have never been a DFL candidate, as far as I can find. And Tim Penny was a former officeholder; he last ran as DFL 7 years before running in the Independence Party.

 * I think this paragraph should be re-worded.

T-bonham (talk) 14:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

 * It does seem a little off. The wording seems to exaggerate the importance of these defections and it seems misplaced in general.  I'm going to remove it since it seems both inaccurate and not really relevant, given the unimportance of the "Independence Party of Minnesota" and the lack of any mention of former DFLers on that page.  As far as I can tell the latter party has no elected officials at the federal or state level and I've find no mention of any elected officials or viable candidates whatsoever.  PantsB (talk) 04:04, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

 * While I agree that the defections weren't particularly notable, the [Independence Party of Minnesota]] has one notable big win - Jesse Ventura for governor in 1998. Their candidates have also often taken > 10% of the vote in state-wide races. Crumley (talk) 12:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

creation
The article says
 * The Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party or (DFL) was created on 1944 April 15 when the Minnesota Democratic Party and Farmer-Labor Party merged to create the DFL. Hubert H. Humphrey was instrumental in this merger.

In the 1970s, some radicals outside MN described HHH as having "kicked out the" radicals [Reds, Communists, don't recall] "in the MN DP", i think as an argument that his VP or Pres candidacy was a sign that DP was not worth radicals supporting it against GOP. I always presumed that this meant that the range of ideologies of DFL activists who could expect to fully participate was broadened to the left (in '44), relative to pre-DFL DP, and that HHH later helped implement a retreat from that, either purging FL vets from leadership or narrowing a de facto "grandfather clause" to apply only to the "grandfathers" and not to their proteges. Can anyone provide NPoV info on this? (Or even PoV?!) --Jerzy(t) 20:08, 2004 May 12 (UTC)
 * I added some further reading references, which might go a ways toward answering Jerzy's questions. No idea if they are online. DJ Silverfish 19:24, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * In my exploration of various documents the Minnesota Historical Society has made available on the internet, I found an interesting article written by Elmer Benson in 1978, in which he accuses Humphrey and the DNC of sabotaging former leftist candidates in 1946 and ejecting many former Farmer-Laborites who supported Henry A. Wallace over Harry Truman in the 1948 election. Not sure about whether it would survive NPoV, though, as he went on to label both Democrats and Republicans fascists. --MNTRT2009 (talk) 22:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The article I mentioned above can be found here. --MNTRT2009 (talk) 22:43, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Category
Editors familiar with Minnesota politics may be helpful in this discussion of renaming a category associated with this article. Jonathunder (talk) 14:33, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I see I'm not the only one who thought of this! Well, I'd like to second the request... In a nutshell, are party members properly referred to as "Democrats"? Cgingold (talk) 19:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, party member are correctly referred to as "Democrats." It is an OK synonym for an DFLer, but it is particularly appropriate for those involved with national politics, since the DFL party is a party of the national Democratic pary. Crumley (talk) 12:17, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I disagree. When the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party and the Minnesota Democratic Party merged, the agreement was to keep the new combined name. To refer to members as Democrats is to disenfranchise a large number of constituents. Perhaps as a compromise, we could make a subcategory of to make it easier for non-Minnesotans to find it.--Appraiser (talk) 00:20, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Political Positions?
Could a political positions section or something be added? From this article, I have no idea what the differences are between this party and the Democratic Party. -- Erroneuz1 (talk) 19:00, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

There aren't really any major political differences - at least not anymore that any other state party has compared to the national party. The DFL name is really just an historical artifact. Crumley (talk) 19:23, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps this should be stated. -- Erroneuz1 (talk) 00:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Minnesota owners of timeshare out of state
State of Florida HB 453 OR 435 out-of-state time-share owner 2601:445:47F:1EA0:944B:F81E:42F2:40D9 (talk) 01:53, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Add Social Democracy, perhaps as a a faction section.
Within both the Lower and upper houses of the Minnesota there are socialists, and I believe adding Social Democracy to the Ideologies section is reasonable. Minnesotawaterballer (talk) 01:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

 * It is certainly reasonable, but is there a reliable source stating that this constitutes a differing faction? I found a few articles mentioning their victories, but haven't found anything indicating they are a distinct faction within the state party. They vote along party lines on all issues, they don't seem to be a significant departure from the broad progressive ideology the state party holds. Carlp941 (talk) 17:46, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I suppose progressivism and Social Democracy are somewhat interchangeable here and you do sound very accurate. In time volunteering in the DFL and reading through other party platforms and policies, it is clear the DFL is the most progressive or left-wing state affiliate of the National Democratic Party.
 * https://twincitiesdsa.org/2022/01/democratic-socialists-in-the-dfl-the-story-so-far/ Minnesotawaterballer (talk) 00:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


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Copland River

The Copland River is a river on the West Coast of the South Island of New Zealand. It flows for 20 km from its headwaters in the Southern Alps / Kā Tiritiri o te Moana to its confluence with the Karangarua River.

The headwaters of the Copland lie only 8 km northwest of Aoraki / Mount Cook in a valley overlooked by the peaks of Mount Sefton and Mount La Perouse. A popular tramping track known as the Copland Track follows the river and leads to the Welcome Flat hot springs. The track leads onto the Copland Pass and the Copland Glacier.

The river lies within the Westland Tai Poutini National Park.

title: Copland River


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User:Gartenkresse

hi, on the following page you will get to know GARTENKRESSE

livable: life itself

well seeing: children laughing, people smiling, hamburg, le fabuleux destin d´Amelie Poulain, people sleeping

good to hear: grass growing, waves, janis joplin, belle and sebastian, dave matthews       band

good to read: haruki murakami, thomas bernhard, gogol, shakespeare, liliy brett i am: not nice at all, interested in everything, smart, good looking, not that fragile as it         seems to be,

i am not: bitchy, unsophisticated, asinine i would die for: nothing forbidden sentence: i can´t do this

the good: wear the head in the air and stand with both legs on the floor, are drinking beer out of bottles the bad: are not only bad at all. are taking a drinking straw

i ask myself: what about this dirty old man??

a day is perfect: when i don´t ask myself in the end if it was

i am waiting for: the guy who brings my turntables

what we have to invent: a drink, that brings happyfeeling right after drinking

if i had money: i would study my whole life, and travelling around, sleeping in good hotels

my interests: clever thiefs, hidden sprouts, free love

title: User:Gartenkresse


text:
Peterborough ware

Peterborough ware is a decorated pottery style of the early to middle Neolithic. Named after the region of Middlesex and East Anglia, England where the style was first discovered, it is known for the impressed pits made by bone or wood implements in its sides. Whipped cord was also used to make circular 'maggot' patterns. Ebbsfleeet ware, Fengate ware and Mortlake ware have been identified as subdivisions of Peterborough ware.

The term was introduced by R.A. Smith based on examples found at Fengate, near Peterborough. It originally referred to all neolithic impressed ware, without restricting by location, but now primarily refers to finds of this type in southern and eastern England.

The earliest form of Peterborough ware is known as Ebbsfleet style and had minimal decoration, although this later became more complex. Peterborough ware may have evolved from the earlier Grimston-Lyles Hill ware, around 3500 BC. Later varieties are known as Mortlake and Fengate sub-styles although the sequential chronological scheme of evolution from Ebbsfleet, through Mortlake to Fengate established by Smith (1956), has been called into question by a reading of associated radiocarbon data (Kinnes and Gibson 1997). While this reading suggests all three subgroups were actually more or less contemporary, current research at the University of Sheffield suggests this may still be a contentious issue.

Archaeologists have described the makers of Peterborough ware as the Peterborough culture, but the term has fallen out of favour as further discoveries have cast doubt on the idea that a single unified society produced these artefacts.

title: Peterborough ware


text:
Dracula: Dead and Loving It

 Dracula: Dead and Loving It is a 1995 comedy horror film directed by Mel Brooks and starring Leslie Nielsen. It is a spoof of Bram Stoker's novel Dracula and of some of the story's well-known adaptations. Brooks co-authored the screenplay with Steve Haberman and Rudy De Luca. He also appears as Dr. Van Helsing. The film's other stars include Steven Weber, Amy Yasbeck, Peter MacNicol, Harvey Korman, and Anne Bancroft.

The film follows the classic Dracula (1931), starring Bela Lugosi, in its deviations from the novel. Its visual style and production values are reminiscent of the Hammer Horror films. It spoofs, among other films, The Fearless Vampire Killers (1967) and Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992). Released on December 22, 1995 to critical and commercial failure, the film is Brooks' last directorial effort to date.

Plot
In 1893, solicitor Thomas Renfield travels from London to "Castle Dracula" in Transylvania to finalize Dracula's purchase of Carfax Abbey in England. Renfield meets Dracula, who unknown to Renfield, is a vampire. Dracula casts a hypnotic spell on Renfield, making him his slave. They soon embark for England. During the voyage, Dracula kills the ship's crew. When the ship arrives and Renfield is discovered alone on the ship, he is confined to a lunatic asylum.

Meanwhile, Dracula visits an opera house, where he introduces himself to his new neighbors: Doctor Seward, the asylum's administrator and head psychiatrist; Seward's daughter, Mina, and her fiance, Jonathan Harker; and family friend Lucy Westenra. Dracula flirts with Lucy and later that night, enters her bedroom, and drinks her blood.

Mina discovers Lucy still in bed late in the morning, looking strangely pale. Seward, puzzled by the odd puncture marks on her throat, calls in Professor Abraham Van Helsing. Van Helsing informs the skeptical Dr. Seward that Lucy has been attacked by a vampire. Seward and Harker allow garlic to be placed in Lucy's bedroom to repel the vampire, though Seward remains skeptical. After a failed attempt by Renfield to remove the garlic, Dracula uses mind control to get Lucy out of her room and kills her.

Van Helsing meets Dracula and begins to suspect him of being a vampire after the two argue in Moldavian, each attempting to have the last word. Lucy, now a vampire herself, rises from her crypt, drains the blood from her guard, and tries to attack and seduce Harker before he stakes her.

Dracula preys on Mina, wanting her to be his undead bride. Dracula spirits Mina away to Carfax Abbey, where they dance, and he drinks her blood. The following morning, Mina tries to seduce Harker. Dr. Seward assumes Jonathan to be seducing Mina and orders him to leave. Van Helsing notices a scarf around Mina's neck and removes it, revealing two puncture marks. Though she lies about how she got them, Van Helsing confirms she has been attacked by a vampire by placing a cross on her hand, which burns a mark into it.

Van Helsing devises a plan to reveal the vampire's secret identity. Both Dracula and Renfield are invited to a ball, where Van Helsing has placed a huge mirror, covered with a curtain, on one of the walls. While Dracula and Mina perform a dance routine, the curtain over the mirror is dropped, revealing that Dracula has no reflection. Dracula grabs Mina and escapes out of a window.

Van Helsing deduces that Renfield is Dracula's slave, and thus might know where he has taken his coffin after a search of Carfax turns up empty. Dracula locks himself in an abandoned church to finish making Mina his bride. His pursuers break down the door, and fighting ensues. Van Helsing, noticing sunlight creeping into the room, opens the blinds. As his body begins to burn, Dracula then attempts to flee, but is inadvertently killed by Renfield.

With Dracula dead, Renfield falls into despair with no master to serve and scrapes Dracula's ashes into the coffin. Seward tells him "you are free, now" and Renfield seems relieved. Dr. Seward calls for Renfield to follow him out of the church, and he follows, responding "yes, master". Van Helsing opens Dracula's coffin and yells in Moldavian to ensure that he has the final word between himself and the count. After the end credits roll, Dracula responds in Moldavian, giving him the true final word.

Cast

 * Leslie Nielsen as Count Dracula
 * Mel Brooks as Professor Van Helsing
 * Peter MacNicol as Thomas Renfield
 * Steven Weber as Jonathan Harker
 * Amy Yasbeck as Mina Seward
 * Lysette Anthony as Lucy Westenra
 * Harvey Korman as Dr. Seward
 * Anne Bancroft as Madame Ouspenskaya (Gypsy Woman)
 * Ezio Greggio as the coachman
 * Megan Cavanagh as Essie
 * Chuck McCann as Innkeeper
 * Mark Blankfield as Martin
 * Clive Revill as Sykes
 * Gregg Binkley as Woodbridge
 * Rudy De Luca as Guard
 * Avery Schreiber as Male Peasant on Coach
 * Cherie Franklin as Female Peasant on Coach
 * David DeLuise as a student in Van Helsing's demonstration

Production
Principal photography began in May 1995 and wrapped in September 1995. Filming took place from May 8 to July 26, 1995 at Culver Studios, California, United States.

Soundtrack
A soundtrack titled Dracula: Dead And Loving It was released 1996 on CD by Castle Rock Entertainment.

 * 1) "Main Title" (2:20)
 * 2) "Faster Horses" (1:07)
 * 3) "Too Dark.. / Limping Shadows / The Web / Hypnotizing Reinfield" (1:35)
 * 4) ""Vampires?" / Gypsy Woman / Dracula's Castle" (2:21)
 * 5) "Reinfield Bleeds / Dracula's Women" (1:55)
 * 6) "Striptease / Bat Flies To Window / Dracula Bites Lucy" (2:00)
 * 7) "Lucy In Bed / Bite Marks? / 3 Tiny Puncture Marks / I Remember Nothing" / Emergency" (3:01)
 * 8) "Dracula In The Garden / Dracula Files, Reinfield Doesn't!'' (2:31)
 * 9) "Dracula Attacks Lucy / Funeral / Never Give Up!/ To The Crypt / Lucy Bites Sikes / Concern / Jonathan To The Crypt" (3:11)
 * 10) "Lucy Reacts To The Cross / Dracula Hypnotizes Mina & Essie" (1:16)
 * 11) "To Carfax Abbey / El Choclo" (2:18)
 * 12) "Van Helsing Sees The Mina's Bite" (1:27)
 * 13) "The Kaminsky Two-Step" (1:27)
 * 14) "Hungarian Dance #5" (3:21)
 * 15) "Escape / In Pursuit Of Reinfield / Fight! / Jonathan On The Floor / Attempted Escape" (4:59)
 * 16) "Ucipital Mapillary / Romantic Moment / Finale" (3:30)

Reception
Critical reaction to Dracula: Dead and Loving It was overwhelmingly negative, with the film earning a "rotten" rating of only 11% on Rotten Tomatoes based on 36 reviews and an average rating of 3.1/10. The site's consensus states: "Lacking any of the comedic bite that audiences have come to expect from a Mel Brooks farce, this vampire parody just plain ol' sucks." Audiences polled by CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of "C" on an A+ to F scale.

James Berardinelli of ReelViews wrote: "Dracula: Dead and Loving It doesn't come close to the level attained by Young Frankenstein. It's a toothless parody that misses more often than it hits. ... Given the comic turn his career has taken since the early '80s, it's hard to believe that Leslie Nielsen was once a serious actor. These days, thanks to the Zucker brothers ... he has become an accomplished satirical performer. His sense of timing is impeccable, and this asset has made him a sought-after commodity for a wide variety of spoofs. Here, Nielsen takes on the title role, but his presence can't resurrect this stillborn lampoon. Unless you're a die hard Mel Brooks fan, there's no compelling reason to sit through Dracula: Dead and Loving It. The sporadic humor promises some laughs, but the ninety minutes will go by slowly."

Joe Leydon of Variety wrote: "Leslie Nielsen toplines to agreeable effect as Count Dracula, depicted here as a dead-serious but frequently flustered fellow who's prone to slipping on bat droppings in his baroque castle. ... Trouble is, while Dead and Loving It earns a fair share of grins and giggles, it never really cuts loose and goes for the belly laughs. Compared with the recent glut of dumb, dumber and dumbest comedies, Brooks's pic seems positively understated. Indeed, there isn't much here that would have seemed out of place (or too tasteless) in comedy sketches for TV variety shows of the 1950s. ... As a result, unfortunately, Dead and Loving It is so mild, it comes perilously close to blandness. ... The only real sparks are set off by MacNicol as Renfield, the solicitor who develops a taste for flies and spiders after being bitten by Dracula."

Mel Brooks said that he met critic Roger Ebert after Ebert had given Dracula: Dead and Loving It a negative review, and lashed out at him, saying, "Listen, you, I made 21 movies. I’m very talented. I’ll live in history. I have a body of work. You only have a body." Roger Ebert wrote that he was "saddened" by the encounter but had to be honest that the movie "just didn't work."

Bruce G. Hallenbeck defended the film in his book Comedy-Horror Films: A Chronological History, 1914-2008, saying it "ranks with Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers as one of the greatest vampire comedies ever made." He praised the dry wit, strong performances of all the cast members, and the way the film acts as an affectionate homage to the classic vampire films rather than purely a spoof. He attributed the film's negative reception to its being so targeted towards hardcore enthusiasts of vampire films that general audiences would not pick up on most of the jokes, and to the inevitable comparisons to Brooks's seminal Young Frankenstein.

Box office
The film debuted at #10. By the end of its run, Dracula grossed $10,772,144.

title: Dracula: Dead and Loving It


text:
Kleine Scheidegg

The Kleine Scheidegg (Little Scheidegg) is a mountain pass at an elevation of 2061 m, situated below and between the Eiger and Lauberhorn peaks in the Bernese Oberland region of Switzerland. The name means "minor watershed", as it only divides the two arms of the Lütschine river, both converging at Zweilütschinen, while the nearby Grosse Scheidegg divides the Lütschine from the Rychenbach stream.

The pass is traversed by a walking trail and the Wengernalp Railway, which both connect the villages of Grindelwald with Lauterbrunnen, passing through Wengen between the pass summit and Lauterbrunnen. In winter, Kleine Scheidegg is the centre of the ski area around Grindelwald and Wengen. In summer, it is a popular hiking destination, and is one of the passes crossed by the Alpine Pass Route between Sargans and Montreux. The Jungfrau Marathon, a mountain race that takes place every year in early September, ends at Kleine Scheidegg. The Kleine Scheidegg railway station is sited at the summit of the pass. Besides being an intermediate stop on the Wengernalp Railway, the station is also the lower terminus of the Jungfrau Railway, which climbs steeply through tunnels inside the Eiger and Mönch mountains up to its terminal at the Jungfraujoch, the highest point reachable by rail in Europe. Both railways operate year-round, and any passengers travelling to the Jungfraujoch must change trains at Kleine Scheidegg. The pass is linked to the summit of the Lauberhorn and to Arvengarten, on the approach to the pass from Grindelwald, by chairlifts.

There are also several restaurants and hotels at the summit of the pass, including the historic Hotel Bellevue des Alpes that dates back to 1840.

History
Prior to the coming of the railways and the introduction of tourism to the area, the twin passes of Kleine Scheidegg and Grosse Scheidegg provided access for local livestock and dairy farmers to the important export route to Italy over the Grimsel Pass. With the coming of tourism and the opening of the first mountain hotels in the 1830s, the transit of the Kleine Scheidegg became busier, and more important than the Grosse Scheidegg.

In 1840, Christian Seiler built the inn Zur Gemse on the summit of the pass. Guests and supplies reached the inn by mule train over the pass tracks, and the inn grew into the internationally famous Hotel Bellevue. The Wengernalp co-operative opened the competing Hotel des Alps alongside the Hotel Bellevue, but sold out to the Seiler family, thus creating the merged Hotel Bellevue des Alps. In order to satisfy tourist demand, construction of the Wengernalp Railway across the pass commenced in 1891, and the line opened in 1893, as a steam hauled summer only service. The line was electrified in 1909/10, and year-round operation started in 1925 (to Lauterbrunnen) and 1960 (to Grindelwald). Construction of the Jungfrau Railway started in 1896, and it opened in stages from 1898 to 1912. Since the 1930s, Kleine Scheidegg has been the base of expeditions on the north face of the Eiger.

Geography
Kleine Scheidegg is among the most celebrated mountain passes in the Swiss Alps because of its position just north of the point where the Bernese Alps makes a salient angle, whose apex is the Eiger. From there, a series of high peaks rise in line towards the northeast, on the left side of the trail that follows a direct route from Meiringen, southwest across the Grosse Scheidegg, to Kleine Scheidegg. On the south side of the apex at the Eiger, the still higher summits of the Mönch, Jungfrau, Gletscherhorn, and Mittaghorn follow in succession from north to south.

Hidden by the Eiger from the vantage point of Grindelwald, the Mönch and Jungfrau break upon the traveller at Kleine Scheidegg in full grandeur, rising from the narrow gorge of the Trümmletental. Three comparatively large glaciers, with several minor accumulations of ice, are found in the hollows and on the shelving ledges of the three peaks that rise above the Trümmletental. The Eiger Glacier lies in the recess between the Eiger and the Mönch. This is separated by a huge projecting buttress of the latter mountain from the Guggi Glacier. Farther on is the Giessen Glacier, formed, at a higher level than the two last, on a shelf of the northwest side of the Jungfrau.

Politically, the pass at Kleine Scheidegg marks the boundary between the municipalities of Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald, both of which are within the canton of Bern.

In popular culture
The film Kleine Scheidegg (1937) was set on the eponymous pass, directed by Richard Schweizer, and starring Susanne Baader, Leopold Biberti and Emil Hegetschweiler.

In the summer of 1974, Clint Eastwood and his cast and crew stayed at the Hotel Bellevue des Alpes at Kleine Scheidegg while filming The Eiger Sanction (1975). Several scenes were filmed in and around the hotel.

The 2008 film North Face, about Toni Kurz and Andreas Hinterstoisser's 1936 attempt to climb the Eiger north face, was shot to a great extent at the Hotel Bellevue des Alpes. Footage of the mountain's profile was also shot from Kleine Scheidegg's vantage point, though the climbing scenes were created mostly using computer generated imagery and green screen technology.

The hiking track in the area is the basis for the fictional Eiger Nordwand tracks in the racing video games Gran Turismo HD Concept, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Gran Turismo 5, and Gran Turismo 6.''

title: Kleine Scheidegg


text:
Talk:Aoraki / Mount Cook

Move suggestion
I haven't done so yet, but I think that it should be considered that this page is move/renamed to reflect the moutain's actual name: Aoraki/Mount Cook. I'm interested to see what other people's perceptions are of this. It's certainly been a change by stealth, but I note now that all the highway signage, even near Christchurch now reads Aoraki/Mount Cook, and that the village is also now calling itself Aoraki/Mount Cook Village.

Also, the page on Mount Taranaki is under that name rather than Egmont...

--Limegreen 03:02, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Please no - we prefer to reflect reality, not some bureaucratic gobbledygook. It works perfectly well to have Aoraki be a redir to the name most commonly seen in English over the entire world (not just NZ). Redirs aren't feasible on street signs, thus the dual nomenclature, but we're not limited in that way. Stan 06:06, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I do see your point, however "reality" is not a static thing. It's not the first mountain in NZ to have undergone a name change, and some of theser were initially resented, and may have been labelled by some as "bureaucratic gobbledygook". I note that the page has been re-directed and then reverted before a year or so back. However, I'd guess it'll definitely be ready for a change in 10 years, even if it is policy to be trend-following. Limegreen 11:48, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * If the mountain was only known to locals, there would be a stronger case, but Mt Cook is very well-known outside New Zealand. Also, why would an official name change be by stealth? If it's official, you want to publicize widely so travel agencies can change their brochures, newspapers can issue new instructions to proofreaders, etc. Perhaps you could elucidate further? Are they saying the name is "Aoraki" or "Aoraki/Mount Cook"? Governments often use a "/" on road signs as a transitional form so people don't get lost, that doesn't tell you which is the "official" name. Stan 16:39, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * If you re-read my original post, I didn't say it was an official name change by stealth... I referred to the changing of the name happening by stealth. The mountain's name has been officially changed for around 7 years now. The first couple of years nothing much happened, and indeed, I don't think some people were too happy about it. However, at this point I've started to notice more changes, and not just to road signs. Commercial websites, running tourist operations in the area, are starting to adopt the change. And the name is "Aoraki/Mt Cook". Had it not be named after Cook, I'd imagine the english monkiker, to paraphrase the Inspector General of Intelligence, would have been outski. Perhaps as a comprimise, the point at which half of the top ten results for "mount cook" in google come back with Aoraki/Mt Cook, it'll be time. It's currently sitting at around 2-3/10. Limegreen 23:28, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Move suggestion 2
The official name is Aoraki/Mount Cook, and I think that's a better arbiter than google. We can always redirect from Mt Cook for international readers with guide books older than 1997. All the newer ones have the correct name, however. I'm going to request a move. --Tirana 22:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Naming convention says use the common name, not necessarily the legal name, I oppose the move on that ground. Brian | (Talk) 05:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * How do you define what's common? A/MC is common enough - you see it in the newspapers, in major guidebooks, and on road signs over half the South Island. Paraparaumu is listed under its proper name, though the shortened use is far more commonly spoken. --Tirana 23:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I support the move because I think that if a name appears in national newspapers and on television, that makes it a fairly common name. And whether or not you think it is in common use probably depends on the people you happen to know. Many people I know prefer AMC to MC. Kahuroa 00:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC) (ps - sorry about the hasty move - my error done in haste when I was short of time. Apology.) Kahuroa 00:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Using Brian's reasoning, we would not be discussing this because the original name Aoraki would still be the common usage, in that no name anywhere in the world could have been changed in the past or could be changed now or forever. Those recent explosions would have happened in Bombay, not Mumbai. Should Wikipedia change its article names for Côte d'Ivoire, or Myanmar or Yangon? Names can only become common usage after they have been in use for a while. If the government of any country decides there is good reason to change a geographic name, who the hell are we to tell them they are wrong? Had he been around at the time, Brian would have opposed the name change from Constantinople to Istanbul. Moriori 01:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Who are a bunch of tin-pot dictators to tell millions of English speakers how to use their languages. (This does not include the doubleplusgood government of New Zealand). - AjaxSmack 14:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Like those who changed the name from the original Aoraki to Mount Cook? Moriori 20:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You forgot East Timor Timor-Leste :). I'm not arguing the legal name; the legal name is "Aoraki/Mount Cook" however it is commonly known 'worldwide' and ‘nationwide’ by its former name. If we get into the naming of articles 'debate' a classic one that should be moved is Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom --> Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Barbados, the Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Antigua and Barbuda, Belize, and Saint Kitts and Nevis, and that will bring npov, however it is slightly to long!. :P

 * The main problem I dislike about renaming the article is the "/" messes up talk pages etc. Brian | (Talk) 05:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It went right over your head Brian, didn't it. It can't become "commonly known 'worldwide' and ‘nationwide’ " if the article name isn't changed. Refusing to acknowledge a change of name made by a government will prevent it from ever achieving the "commonly known 'worldwide' and ‘nationwide’ " status which you demand. Illogical. Moriori 09:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:UE Brian | (Talk) 09:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I support the move to Aoraki/Mount Cook. The redirect's history is completely trivial. Moriori created that page by moving the contents of Mount Cook to it. One editor added an interwiki link, but also changed quotes to smart quotes, and another editor then fixed the quotes. The Mount Cook article was then reverted to a version before the move and the A/MC article redirected to it. I think we can delete the current A/MC redirect without worrying about compliance with requirements of the GFDL to preserve article history.-gadfium 02:05, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay I see Moriori reasoning, I now 'Support the move (half-heartedly) Brian | (Talk) 21:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

So, is that a consensus? I tried moving the article myself but it wouldn't let me seeing as there's already an article at A/MC. Would blanking A/MC fix that, or does someone with special admin powers need to delete the old A/MC before pasting the new one on top? Or is it appropriate to cut and paste, with the redirect and edit history left behind here? --Tirana 21:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, it needs to be done by an admin. There's currently a four-day backlog on Requested moves, and this article's request has just entered the backlog section. So it'll probably be done in a few days. (FWIW, I support the move too.) -- Avenue 03:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

First traverse of triple peak
An anon changed the very long-standing claim in this article that Edmund Hillary made the first traverse of all three peaks. They appear to be right; see under "Routes overview".-gadfium 22:53, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There are numerous written references, beginning with Freda Du Faur's biography, Hugh Logan's Classic Peaks, John Pascoe's Great Days in New Zealand Mountaineering ....

No references- what on earth!!??
Why?? This article's been obviously getting plenty of attention, that it has gotten so large without any references or citations makes the mind boggle.. verifiability is important, no good wikipedia article is without references or citations Kotare 07:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoa, this article now has plenty of footnotes- its looking really good :) Kotare 03:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move
Mount Cook → Aoraki/Mount Cook – The official name of the mountain is Aoraki/Mount Cook. — Tirana 23:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I moved this request back to the top of Requested moves because a place for voting was not made. Please vote. -- Kjkolb 10:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~

 * Support. Mildly controversial cases like this are better placed at the official name. -- Avenue 14:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Support. Discussed above. --Tirana 21:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Oppose per above Brian | (Talk) 21:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Support. It logical to follow Wiki precedents (Burma--->Myanmar etc) and illogical to not use official names. Moriori 21:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * you mean like Timor-Leste East Timor thats had so many RMs but most votes said to use the common name Brian | (Talk) 21:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Bangkok's official name is Krung Thep Maha Nakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayutthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udom Ratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Phiman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanu Kamprasit but Wikipedia uses the "illogical" Bangkok anyway. -  AjaxSmack    00:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Support as per my comments above Kahuroa 23:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Support per above.-gadfium 04:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose PC OTT 210.54.114.146 07:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- use common name -- Wikipedia is not an agent of the New Zealand authorities. -  AjaxSmack    00:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Wikipedia is not the agent of India or other countries either, but........ Rense 01:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * oppose NO one calles it Aoraki/Mount Cook except for govt hacks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.236.44.41 (talk • contribs).
 * HUH?? I think the vote above this is the second one by that user. Kahuroa 05:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I just did a quick whois, the first IP is owned by "Telecom Internet Services" (aka Xtra) the second "SchoolZone Telecom New Zealand Limited " Brian | (Talk) 05:13, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh; did you mean the IP's ? Brian | (Talk) 05:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh I get it now - as you were. Kahuroa 06:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Moving article. OK. It is a week now since this was listed, so the "few days" have gone. The consensus is move, so I am moving it. Moriori 08:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

A move back needed.
Commonly known, 'Aoraki' is a mere politically correct move to include Māori culture. The official name is still Mt. Cook. I am proposing a strong suggestion to change it back to the original name, as there was no need to change it in the first place.

Mount Cook however, is not the only mountain to undergo political pressure for a change of name. Mount Egmont (now Mount Taranaki), was changed also.

So to conclude this short piece of writing, the name should be reverted, and I will follow through with it if there is enough support.

- Qnif201
 * No, the official name is Aoraki/Mount Cook.- gadfium 08:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Land Information NZ is the government body that assigns official place names in New Zealand. If you do a search for "Cook", then it shows that the official name is actually "Aoraki/Mount Cook" . The official topographic map at nztopoonline.linz.govt.nz also shows "Aoraki/Mount Cook" --Ozhiker 10:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I stand corrected - Qnif201

 * Qnif201 I'd have to agree. Mt Cook is a recognisable name. Aoraki is not. It appears to be a push to de-"anglify" NZ Aoteroa (sp?). I accept it makes sense to include it in a cultural discussion/the history of the mountain but as the actual name???? So what takes precedence the official name, the actual name, the common name...? 23:04, 4 June 2009 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.25.1.208 (talk)
 * What takes precedence? The official name (Aoraki/Mount Cook)? The actual name (Aoraki/Mount Cook)? The unambiguous recognisable name (Aoraki/Mount Cook)? The name which every year becomes more commonly used (Aoraki/Mount Cook)? Pick any one. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 23:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What on earth is Aoraki! Up until a few months ago I had never heard of it. If it were not plastered on every sign in NZ I'd still not have heard of it. It is this de-anglification that really discourages me from coming back other than occasional holidays! Mt Cook is an internationally recognised, historically significant name. Aoraki is what - a modern adaptation of a minority name. Forcing foreign culture where it is not needed. We rarely talk about Deutschland or Danmark or italia so why anything else? As regards the terms before official name - that which the government calls/legislates it, actual name - okay fluidic but more formal than the common name and in this case Mt Cook, common name, what almost ie everyone bar (maybe) non-English speakers)everyone calls it ie Mt Cook. it is possible some people might have nicknames or abbreviations etc and so might have alternatives but you get the idea.203.25.1.208 (talk) 06:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Māori are not considered to be a foreign culture in New Zealand. That the name is on "every sign in NZ" is rather a good reason why we should use it.- gadfium 06:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No not a foreign culture, precisely, certainly a different culture though. And a minority. Who's the second cultural group in NZ now? Asian is too general, Korean, Chinese ...? That the name is on every sign merely means there is a concerted effort to push the PC name. Perhaps I should ask around here (here as in my locality as opposed to this wiki) who has heard of Mt Cook vs Aoraki. Might be interesting?203.25.1.208 (talk) 06:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You say "Up until a few months ago I had never heard of it." Who'd have guessed! As you have a problem with the name, why don't you complain to the people pushing to "de-anglify" NZ?In the meantime, allow Wiki to continue with its naming conventions, using the official name (Aoraki/Mount Cook), the actual name (Aoraki/Mount Cook), the unambiguous recognisable name (Aoraki/Mount Cook) and the name which every year becomes exponentially more commonly used, (Aoraki/Mount Cook). That last bit rankle with you a little? A lot?  Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 08:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Rankle K.? No merely distasteful. A matter of personal preference/choice. I did the straw poll amongst some my co-workers. Statistically unreliable of course but I asked who knew of Mitre peak, Aoraki, Mt Cook. All knew Mt Cook, most knew/thought they had heard of Mitre Peak (which I found surprising) and only one thought Aoraki sounded familiar but she was unsure whereabouts in the Himlayas it was. And these are highly educated information professionals I asked. I shall try and ask one or two others to confirm these results but ... Clearly Aoraki is a term only known in parts of New Zealand. As regards complaining to whom? It is a top down cultural push. I prefer a bottom up rejection. As regards the growth of the term exponential = 2, 4, 16 ... It does not mean significant numbers only large growth. I doubt the argument though. Also knowledge is not the same as agreement. I could memorise Mein Kampf it does not mean I actually agree with anything in it. 05:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC) 203.25.1.208 (talk) 06:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC) expatriate Colonial from the Middle Isle - aka the mainland :) Oh as regards the biggest minority Maori Vs Asian it looks like 14.5% vs 9% so a bit more of a gap than I realised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.25.1.208 (talk)
 * Sometimes our personal choices are overcome by events, like Wiki using the official name, (Aoraki/Mount Cook), the actual name (Aoraki/Mount Cook), the unambiguous recognisable name (Aoraki/Mount Cook) except among your educated professional co-workers who likely have never heard of Kolkata, and the name which every year becomes exponentially more commonly used, (Aoraki/Mount Cook). I am truly sorry for you that you find it distasteful that the original Māori name of this mountain (several hundred years), was incorporated into the current name. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 08:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this is descending into a chat forum so the discussion had best come to an end. Obviously we agree to disagree. It is not the assocation of the Maori name for Mt Cook I object to, but the renaming of the mountain, reflecting a change/loss of culture. Kolkata??? No. Unless you mean Calcutta in India which I really doubt. 203.190.201.15 (talk) 04:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC) expatriate Colonial from the Middle Isle - aka the mainland
 * Before you go, which particular re-naming do you object to? The first one? Or the last one? Click on Kolkata. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 04:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My apologies about the delayed response. I did see this but have not been able to allocate time to respond (and still do not so apologies if this is abbrev.) Re-naming, I am not sure I understand you? I am not sure Captain Cook Stokes/the British Empire ever saw their naming Mt Cook as a renaming if that is what you mean? Thanks for the Kolkata link. It was Culcutta that you meant obviously.203.190.201.15
 * What did you say about "reflecting a change/loss of culture"? Stokes re-named a mountain which had already been named for many centuries. So it's the second renaming you object to, the one which restored the historic original name given by the indigenous New Zealanders and combined it with the name given by latter day colonisers. It complemented the apology. So that's sorted. And, nope, I meant Kolkata, not Calcutta, which is why I said "Click on Kolkata". Funny how you missed that! Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 03:10, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay lunchtime so ... Did Stokes rename the mountain or was it that he gave it a name for English/European/World maps? Latter day colonisers? Britain etc was the second or third wave of colonisers. There have been plenty of immigrants since though, and will likely continue to be. I said Calcutta deliberately though I did follow the link. It seems to be an issue akin to the Peking/Beijing naming. Trying to match up a local name to an English name and then adapting a more local flavour to the pronounciation ... While I will continue to think in terms of Calcutta the link between the two is near enough mentally leap between, unlike the Bay-Jing/Pee-King example I gave before. Sorry. This is almost starting the debate up again and we are clearly not going to agree so ... 203.25.1.208 (talk) 04:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What did you have for lunch? Sour grapes? ): Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 06:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Minor suggestion. How about somebody tidy this up? It does not resolve anything so delete the conversation? Wikipedia is not a chat forum so yes/no/maybe? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.190.197.103 (talk) 10:47, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Move without discussion
This article was recently moved without discussion (the spaces around the slash being removed) and the article title now contravenes Naming conventions (New Zealand). Because this potentially effects 90+ other articles, I have initiated a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(New_Zealand) dramatic (talk) 01:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Merge this article with Aoraki/Mount Cook National Park
Copying information between these articles is problematic because of refs. There is lots of overlap between the 2 articles. Sections for Forests and glaciers, Area history, and probably Climate on the Aoraki / Mount Cook article are for the park, rather than the mountain.

I also put this on Talk:Aoraki/Mount Cook National Park Aaabbb11 (talk) 05:04, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 06:12, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 3 November 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn - withdrawing for now, as while I remain convinced by the Ngrams, WP:SNOWBALL applies to this request, though I might revisit the topic in a few months after more research, should this additional research supporting moving. BilledMammal (talk) 10:24, 4 November 2021 (UTC) Aoraki / Mount Cook → Mount Cook – Following the depreciation of the dual name section of WP:NCNZ, the current title no longer complies with policy; Ngrams tells us that the dual name is not the WP:COMMONNAME with both Aoraki and Mount Cook having significantly higher use, and as either would be primary disambiguation is not required. Mount Cook by itself is 50% higher than Aoraki by itself, and though we have to consider that there are some other entities named Aoraki or Mount Cook, they are all relatively insignificant and should not have a significant effect on the result (Wikipedia page views for the others are insignificant, and news searches almost exclusively return results about the mountain).

News sources appear to prefer Mount Cook; some use it exclusively, while most of the rest mention the dual name before using just Mount Cook. For example, BBC, NZ Herald NZ Herald 2 Stuff, Broadsheet, ABC, The Australian Overall, evidence seems to suggest that Mount Cook is the WP:COMMONNAME, but Aoraki is also a possibility worthy of discussion. Where Aoraki / Mount Cook National Park should move should also be considered here. BilledMammal (talk) 00:52, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose, your argument appears to be that most sources call it "Aoraki / Mount Cook" in the lead and then use the shorter term "Mount Cook" later. Since such sources also call our Prime Minister "Jacinda Ardern" in the lead and just Ardern later, I think this is more a confirmation of the current title than a argument that carries weight.- gadfium 02:15, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I was unclear. Some do it in the way you describe; others refer to it as "Mount Cook" initially, then use "Aoraki / Mount Cook" to demonstrate the official name, and then revert to "Mount Cook". Others don't use "Aoraki / Mount Cook" at all (about half of the provided examples). The question is what sources commonly refer to it as, and the Ngrams, combined with the sources that only use "Mount Cook", and the sources that use both but prefer "Mount Cook" suggests that the answer to this questions is "Mount Cook". BilledMammal (talk) 02:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Some texts choose to use the Māori part of the name, some the part that is a memorial to a great English explorer, some the dual name - so looking for the most common permutation of words is not helpful. Both Mt Cook and Aoraki are likely terms that users will search for. The Dual Name make the page easy to find by everyone. Overall, this suggests that the answer to this question is "Aoraki / Mount Cook" Somej (talk) 08:59, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose. I didn't participate in the recent RFC because I couldn't form a decided view, but Aoraki / Mount Cook seemed to me a clear example of a situation where the dual name is the WP:COMMONNAME. Of the news sources you have cited, it seems that all of them use Aoraki / Mount Cook except for this ABC article, which only makes a passing mention to the mountain (i.e. it's not actually the subject of the article) and this NZ Herald article. (I can't access The Australian source, but from the URL I take it that it also uses Aoraki / Mount Cook.) This seems to me to support that Aoraki / Mount Cook is the common name. I further agree with Gadfium that using a shorter form of the dual name further on in an article doesn't mean that the dual name isn't the common name. To use an example from the policy, you wouldn't seen a news article say "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi" and then "Mahatma Gandhi", it'd say "Mahatma Gandhi" and then "Gandhi". Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 03:49, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Oops, you're right - I forgot that the Broadsheet article is one where it uses "Mount Cook" initially, switches to "Aoraki / Mount Cook" on the second mention, and then goes back "Mount Cook" as their preferred name.
 * As for Ghandi (or Obama, or many other notable politicians) I think you will find that news articles will tend to use "Ghandi" or "Obama" throughout, but names of people often have slightly different naming criteria from names of places. BilledMammal (talk) 03:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries! Ah, I do think my rationale applies to places as well. For example, I've never seen an article refer to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or the Collegiate Church of Saint Peter at Westminster (to use the examples in the guidelines). I am conscious that there could be a possibility of bias; I know others in this discussion have suggested that the NZ news media may have pressure brought to bear on them by government, for example, to use the dual name. But given that it seems we have UK and Australian sources using the dual name, I think that is unlikely. I think this is genuinely one of the rare cases when the dual name is "the overwhelmingly most common name in English".
 * For what it's worth, also, here is an example of an article referring to Biel/Bienne which uses both the dual name and Biel on its own (I tried to find more examples of articles to see how it is usually treated, since this is a clear example of a dual name under the normal rules, but it was difficult to find English language articles about the city):

 * Oppose for now. My analysis of the naming criteria:
 * Recognizability --- prefer dual name, because it appears to be well-known in NZ.
 * Naturalness --- prefer single name, English readers are more likely to search for "Mount Cook", per WP:COMMONNAME and ngram results.
 * Precision --- dual name is unambiguous, single name has a dab page: Mount Cook (disambiguation)
 * Concision --- single name definitely more concise
 * Consistency -- for now, WP titles of well-known NZ landmarks appear to be largely dual names.
 * It's a close call, but it seems that the dual name should be kept. I'll re-iterate my recommendation for NZ editors to please come up with a well-written replacement for the old dual name guideline. I would urge people to not change article titles until we can come up with a consistent set of rules of when to use dual names. — hike395 (talk) 04:06, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Strong Oppose this is almost certainly the clearest cut example of a dual name being by far the common name. Other users are correct in terms of how dual names are used in practice. Your reliance on ngrams is flawed as they routinely don't work for dual names (by default dual names will have fewer results as they also count for both components). I'm honestly struggling to comprehend the rationale here. Furthermore, you seem to have also misunderstood the result of the RfC, which doesn't forbid the use of dual names at all - especially when such a name is as clearly in common use as with Aoraki / Mount Cook. Turnagra (talk) 05:46, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Ngrams works fine for dual names; its a simple calculation to address that problem. I've done it for you here. And I'm not saying that dual names are forbidden; for example, I've deliberately left Lake Ellesmere / Te Waihora alone, as the dual name appears to be the common name. BilledMammal (talk) 05:57, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * And the various other forms of punctuation used for dual place names (eg. Aoraki Mount Cook; Aoraki-Mount Cook; Aoraki (Mount Cook); vice versa for all the above)...? Turnagra (talk) 06:02, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The only one with any usage registered is "Aoraki Mount Cook", and it is insignificant. I'd add it to the query anyway, but the query becomes too long for Ngrams to accept. If there are other options you want to check, you can query the database yourself - you don't need an account. Just use the search bar at the top, and make sure to place any phrases with special characters (-, /, etc) inside square brackets. BilledMammal (talk) 06:12, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * My point being, there are enough different manners in which dual names are used that it's impossible for something like ngrams to accurately pick up their usage. The specifics of dual names mean you need to actually look at things instead of using automated tools like that. Turnagra (talk) 08:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You seem to be doing a good job of thinking of the alternatives, and it seems that none of them have any use of consequence. If there are others you would rather I check rather than checking yourself, please let me know. BilledMammal (talk) 09:15, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Support move to Aoraki/Mount Cook as when the dual name is the common name, the common name should override the official slash format per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAME. I strongly oppose a move to Mount Cook, per others and the fact that keeping the dual name provides inherent disambiguation with other Mount Cooks such as these. YttriumShrew (talk) 22:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think between Aoraki / Mount Cook and Aoraki/Mount Cook, Aoraki / Mount Cook is the common name; the second doesn't even show up on Ngrams. In terms of disambiguation, I don't think it is required here, because either Aoraki or Mount Cook is primary. BilledMammal (talk) 23:09, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Aoraki/Mt Cook doesn't show up on nGrams because of how they've formatted it. Most sources spell it with a non-spaced slash, such as DOC, the Mackenzie Region website, Metservice and the Christchurch NZ website. YttriumShrew (talk) 23:43, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing why that will make a difference, but if you're confident then I have support your proposal should the proposal to move to "Mount Cook" be rejected. Incidentally, you did make me realize I didn't consider the "Mt Cook" format; see here if interested, though I'm not sure it changes anything. BilledMammal (talk) 00:21, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It's also worth noting there are other Mount Cooks, which may be clouding the water a bit. YttriumShrew (talk) 01:50, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I considered them, as well as the other Aoraki's, but my research suggested they are sufficiently inconsequential to have a minimal effect on the Ngrams, and we already have established what the primary topic is. BilledMammal (talk) 01:59, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose. The official, Dual Name is the best title for the page.  Some - but not all - of my reasons:
 * Taking the proposal literally, "depreciated" means old but still usable. A depreciated guideline is still useful and applicable, and the dual name is clearly in common use as per the section referred to.
 * The official name is the appropriate entry for a global encyclopedia. The dual name is part of New Zealand English (the language of this page). Some texts choose to use the Māori part of the name, some the part that is a memorial to a great English explorer, some the dual name - so looking for the most common usage internet ngrams is not material.
 * The current wp:NZNC guideline states "The article should be placed at the name which recent reliable sources indicate has more common usage. " and expands on what is "recent". The raw ngram counts which rely on WP:COMMONNAME are flawed.
 * If you do still prefer to count total usage across all time, Aoraki was used for much longer than the more recent Mt Cook - but in an oral culture which was not recorded in internet text archives. The dual name recognises both on equal terms.
 * Both Mt Cook and Aoraki are likely terms that users will search for. The Dual Name make the page easy to find by everyone.
 * WP:NPOV is relevant. Dual names are New Zealand's elegant solution to the need to "represent fairly" all "significant views" on the topic - and in this case, there are certainly significant views on the usage of both "Aoraki" and "Mount Cook".
 * Similarly, WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS is relevant. There are strong, and passionate, arguments for both the Māori and the English-language name for this mountain. Wikipedia's role is not to adjudicate;  using the Dual Name is an elegant compromise solution to balancing these strongly-held views.
 * Please stop wasting everyone's time, and focus your energy on drafting updates to WP:NZNC that have some chance of achieving consensus.
 * Somej (talk) 08:51, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose after questioning my life choices I was pleasantly surprised to find that Aoraki/Mount Cook or similar passed all the tests I have been using to determine popularity on other duel name pages. In fact if I was being consistent I would be supporting a name change to just Aoraki. Best not to dwell on that. Might see something I don't like. Dushan Jugum (talk) 10:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Aoraki/Mount Cook
This is an official name 222.153.176.212 (talk) 11:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aoraki / Mount Cook


text:
William Russell, 1st Baron Russell of Thornhaugh

William Russell, 1st Baron Russell of Thornhaugh (died 9 August 1613) was an English nobleman, politician, peer, and knight. His birthdate is uncertain, with some records showing that he was born as early as 1553, some as late as 1563. He was educated at Magdalen College, Oxford. After spending a few years abroad, he went back to Ireland in 1580, and having seen some service in that country, he was knighted in September 1581.

Russell began his active military career in the Netherlands in 1585, being made lieutenant-general of cavalry. In September 1586 he distinguished himself at the Battle of Zutphen and was noted for maintaining an effective fighting force in difficult circumstances. He was appointed to the office of Governor of Flushing in 1587, but was recalled on his own initiative the following year. In 1594 he was appointed to the office of Lord Deputy of Ireland, where he served with flamboyance.

In 1599, Russell was named as leader of the forces defending England in anticipation of a Spanish invasion. However, the invasion plans were thwarted.

Russell built the mansion of Woburn. In the 1590s, he consulted with three Dutchmen as to the potential for draining his manor of Thorney Abbey in Cambridgeshire; his son, Francis Russell, famously continued the family interest in drainage and led the undertakers in the first attempt to drain the Great Level of the Fens, later known as the Bedford Level.

Russell was created 1st Baron Russell of Thornhaugh in 1603, but he lost influence at court and retired to his estates, where he died on 9 August 1613. His tomb is in Thornhaugh church.

Russell married on 13 February 1585 at Watford, London, Elizabeth Long, only daughter and sole heiress of Henry Long of Shingay, Cambridgeshire, and granddaughter of Sir Richard Long. They had one son, Francis Russell, 4th Earl of Bedford. The church registers of St Mary's Church Watford record that the child was baptized in 1587.


text:
User:Grimey

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