text:
Talk:Arius

Constantine Baptism
"Historians report that Constantine, who had never been baptized as a Christian during his lifetime, was baptized on his deathbed by the Arian bishop, Eusebius of Nicomedia."

That would mean it was during his lifetime, no? ( SailingOn (talk) 19:27, 3 December 2017 (UTC) )

 * It would mean towards or at the end of his life. Tgeorgescu (talk) 22:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

 * That's what they intend it to mean, but that's not what lifetime means. I'm changing the sentence, Oxford dictionary states lifetime means "The duration of a person's life." I refuse to submit to bizarro English.( SailingOn (talk) 02:18, 4 December 2017 (UTC) )

 * Edit just noticed you fixed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SailingOn (talk • contribs) 02:19, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Ehrman
"52:07 arias arias was trying to figure out how 52:12 to explain the relationship of God the 52:15 Father and God the Son at this point in 52:18 Christian history every Christian knew 52:21 that Jesus was the son of God this is 52:23 not a decision that was being made 52:24 Christians had thought this for 52:26 centuries at this point 52:27 ever since the New Testament everybody 52:29 thought Jesus was the son of God the 52:31 question is if Jesus is the Son of God 52:34 how does he relate to God the Father 52:36 he's obviously a son but but in what 52:39 sense is he also God in what sense is he 52:44 also God everybody thought he was God 52:45 but in what sense is he God arias 52:49 solution was this arias said that in 52:52 eternity past way back in eternity 52:55 before anything else existed just God 52:57 existed and God brought into being his 53:01 son he begot a son Christ came into 53:04 existence Christ was a secondary 53:08 divinity a subordinate divinity not 53:12 equal in power and glory and Majesty to 53:14 the Father because he's the son he's not 53:16 the father the father is superior to the 53:19 son Christ the son then created the 53:24 universe and he eventually came into the 53:27 world as a human being and died for the 53:29 sins of the world was raised from the 53:30 dead or returned to heaven and is God 53:33 but he's a subordinate 53:35 divinity who came into being at a 53:37 certain point of time well that made 53:40 sense to a lot of people and still 53:42 probably make sense to a lot of people 53:43 because I mean what's the option I mean 53:47 if if he's totally equal with God then 53:50 that would mean that he can't be 53:52 Almighty because God would be Almighty 53:55 but if God's Almighty and he's Almighty 53:57 how's that work you can't have to all my 53:59 T's if two people are Almighty neither 54:01 one of them is all-mighty right so it 54:05 doesn't"

- Bart Ehrman

Tgeorgescu (talk) 00:36, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Does not follow Wikipedia writing style
This reads like a news article, not an encyclopedic entry a Rookie editor of This Emporium of Knowledge, SirColdcrown (talk) 00:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

(Re)moved three sections to here
Good morning all,

It seems that one user, AndriesvN, added three sections to the start of this page over the summer. All three come off as partisan and polemical, not fitting with the tone or scope of wikipedia. There is a lot of good, nuanced information in those sections, but it is presented unprofessionally, so I've moved it to here until AndriesvN or another user can add the information back in in a more polished, less polemical way.

--MarkusAureliusMarcoMark (talk) 15:14, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Was Arius the "founder" of Arianism? In the textbook account of the 'Arian' Controversy, Arius was "the founder of Arianism." However, "in the first few decades of the present (20th) century … seminally important work was … done in the sorting-out of the chronology of the controversy, and in the isolation of a hard core of reliable primary documents." Consequently, "the four decades since 1960 have produced much revisionary scholarship on the Trinitarian and Christological disputes of the fourth century." With respect to Arius, that scholarship now concludes: "We are not to think of Arius as dominating and directing a single school of thought to which all his allies belonged."

"Arius' role in 'Arianism' was not that of the founder of a sect. It was not his individual teaching that dominated the mid-century eastern Church."

"Arius evidently made converts to his views … but he left no school of disciples." The Son's precise relationship with the Father had been discussed for decades before Arius's advent. Arius' dispute with his bishop intensified the controversy:"'The views of Arius were such as … to bring into unavoidable prominence a doctrinal crisis which had gradually been gathering. … He was the spark that started the explosion. But in himself he was of no great significance.'"After the Nicene Council, Arius and his theology were irrelevant:"'Arius' own theology is of little importance in understanding the major debates of the rest of the century.'"Others like Eusebius of Caesarea and Eusebius of Nicomedia proved much more influential in the long run. In fact, some later Arians disavowed the name, claiming not to have been familiar with the man or his specific teachings. "'Those who suspected or openly repudiated the decisions of Nicaea … certainly (did not have) a loyalty to the teaching of Arius as an individual theologian.' 'Arius was suspect in the eyes of the Lucianists and their neo-Arian successors.'"

Why is the controversy named after Arius? If Arius was of no great significance, as stated above, why is the controversy named after him? Some argue that, because the conflict between Arius and his foes brought the issue to the theological forefront, the doctrine they said he proclaimed—though he had definitely not originated—is generally labeled as "his". But scholars now conclude as follows:

 * "The textbook picture of an Arian system … inspired by the teachings of the Alexandrian presbyter, is the invention of Athanasius' polemic."
 * "'Arianism' is the polemical creation of Athanasius above all."
 * "'Arianism' as a coherent system, founded by a single great figure and sustained by his disciples, is a fantasy … based on the polemic of Nicene writers, above all Athanasius."

Athanasius' purpose was to create the impression that, although the various anti-Nicene views seem to differ, they all constituted a single coherent system; all based on Arius' teachings. For example:

 * "Athanasius' controversial energies … are dedicated to building up the picture of his enemies as uniformly committed … to a specific set of doctrines advanced by Arius and a small group of confederates."
 * "The professed purpose of Athanasius … is to exhibit the essential continuity of Arianism from first to last beneath a deceptive appearance of variety, all non-Nicene formularies of belief really lead back to the naked 'blasphemies of Arius'."
 * "Athanasius ... was determined to show that any proposed alternative to the Nicene formula collapsed back into some version of Arius' teaching, with all the incoherence and inadequacy that teaching displayed."

Athanasius' purpose, therefore, was to argue, since Arius' theology was already formally rejected by the church, that all opposition to the Nicene Creed was also already rejected. However:

 * "'Arianism,' throughout most of the fourth century, was in fact a loose and uneasy coalition of those hostile to Nicaea in general and the homoousios in particular."
 * "Scholars continue to talk as if there were a clear continuity among non-Nicene theologians by deploying such labels as Arians, semi-Arians, and neo-Arians. Such presentations are misleading."
 * "There was no such thing in the fourth century as a single, coherent 'Arian' party."

For that reason:

 * "The expression 'the Arian Controversy' is a serious misnomer."
 * "'Arianism' is a very unhelpful term to use in relation to fourth-century controversy."
 * "This controversy is mistakenly called Arian."

Arius' writings Very little of Arius' writing has survived. "As far as his own writings go, we have no more than three letters, (and) a few fragments of another." The three are:

 * 1) The confession of faith Arius presented to Alexander of Alexandria,
 * 2) His letter to Eusebius of Nicomedia, and
 * 3) The confession he submitted to the emperor.

"The Thalia is Arius' only known theological work" but "we do not possess a single complete and continuous text." We only have extracts from it in the writings of Arius' enemies, "mostly from the pen of Athanasius of Alexandria, his bitterest and most prejudiced enemy."

Emperor Constantine ordered their burning while Arius was still living. Some recent scholars have concluded that so little survived because "the people of his day, whether they agreed with him or not, did not regard him (Arius) as a particularly significant writer".

Those works which have survived are quoted in the works of churchmen who denounced him as a heretic. This leads some—but not all—scholars to question their reliability. For example Bishop R.P.C. Hanson wrote: "Athanasius, a fierce opponent of Arius … certainly would not have stopped short of misrepresenting what he said."

"Athanasius... may be suspected of pressing the words maliciously rather further than Arius intended." Archbishop Rowan Williams agrees that Athanasius applied "unscrupulous tactics in polemic and struggle". MarkusAureliusMarcoMark (talk) 15:14, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Yeah, whatever. Since you removed the quotes, please write some coherent prose based upon those WP:RS. tgeorgescu (talk) 15:20, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey! I don't have the time right now to re-insert all of these in their relevant spots on the article, but I figured this might be a good opportunity for the original editor to prove themselves and re-insert things in a more nuanced way. I looked through their contributions and they seem to be pretty uniformly making wikipedia a worse place by confusing terms and adding in block quotes from scholars rather than keeping with the spirit of Wikipedia in tone or content. --MarkusAureliusMarcoMark (talk) 15:27, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Arius


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User:Goobergunch

This page has been vandalized fifteen times.

Goobergunch is an inclusionist eventualist Wikipedian who strongly believes that Wiki is not paper. However, he also thinks articles should be verifiable, not contain original research, and adhere to a neutral point of view. Once these policies has been satisfied, he is generally in favor of Wikipedia coverage being as detailed as reasonably possible.

Multi-licensing
--Goobergunch|? 21:48, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

--Goobergunch|? 14:35, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) (revised by --Goobergunch|? 21:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC))

The two above dual-licensing agreements apply retroactively to all edits made by this user since 18 May 2004 in the main namespace, as well as all future edits made by this user in the main namespace unless specificially designated otherwise on this page. --Goobergunch|?

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Goobergunch


text:
Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick

The Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick (Assemblée législative du Nouveau-Brunswick) is the deliberative assembly of the New Brunswick Legislature, in the province of New Brunswick, Canada. The assembly's seat is located in Fredericton. It was established in Saint John de jure when the colony was created in 1784 but came into session only in 1786, following the first elections in late 1785. The legislative assembly was originally the lower house in a bicameral legislature. Its upper house counterpart, the Legislative Council of New Brunswick, was abolished in 1891. Its members are called "Members of the Legislative Assembly", commonly referred to as "MLAs".

History
Nova Scotia originally covered most of the territory of today's Maritime provinces. In 1784, New Brunswick became a distinct colony from Nova Scotia. Saint John was chosen as the original capital when New Brunswick was formed as it was the centre of commerce and the only city at that time.

The first elections took place in November 1785. The legislative assembly came into session in January 1786. It was originally the lower house in a bicameral legislature. Its upper house counterpart, the Legislative Council of New Brunswick, was abolished on April 16, 1891.

Legislative Building
The New Brunswick Legislative Building is the current building that houses the Assembly. It opened in 1882, having been constructed by J.C. Dumaresq, following the destruction of the original building, known as Province Hall, by fire in 1880.

The legislative chamber is designed to have four rows on the government side and three rows on the opposition side. This is because elections have traditionally yielded a strong government majority; in fact on occasion, even with many of the seats on one side of the House, the government has spilled over to the opposition side. Quite often the House is oriented to have only two rows on the opposition benches, in the event of a large opposition adding a third row makes the opposition benches rather crowded.

title: Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick


text: User talk:66.177.0.194

title: User talk:66.177.0.194


text:
Mount Massive

Mount Massive (Arapaho: Hiwoxuu hookuhu'ee) is the second-highest summit of the Rocky Mountains of North America and the U.S. state of Colorado. The prominent 14428 ft fourteener of the Sawatch Range is located in the Mount Massive Wilderness of San Isabel National Forest, 17.1 km west-southwest (bearing 247°) of the City of Leadville in Lake County, Colorado, United States. Mount Massive edges out the third-highest summit of the Rockies, Mount Harvard, by 7 ft, but falls short of Mount Elbert by 12 ft. It ranks as the third-highest peak in the contiguous United States after Mount Whitney and Mount Elbert.

Mountain
Mount Massive was first surveyed and climbed in 1873 during the Hayden Survey of the American West. Survey member Henry Gannett is credited with the first ascent. Its name comes from its elongated shape: it has five summits, all above 14000 ft, and a summit ridge over 3 mi long, resulting in more area above 14000 ft than any other mountain in the 48 contiguous states, narrowly edging Mount Rainier in that category. Mount Elbert (14440 ft) is Mount Massive's nearest neighbor among the fourteeners; it lies about 5 mi south-southeast of the peak. A matter of some contention after the Great Depression arose over the heights of Massive and its neighbor, Mount Elbert, which have a height difference of only 12 ft. This led to an ongoing dispute which came to a head with the Mount Massive supporters taking it upon themselves to build large piles of stones on the summit to boost its height, only to have the Mount Elbert proponents demolish them.

A class 2 hiking path leads to the peak from the eastern face. The path is 13.6 mi round trip, with a 4500 ft elevation gain.

There are several glacial lakes in the wilderness area. The lower slopes of the mountain are covered in lodgepole pine forests, which gradually yield to Engelmann Spruce and Fir. Treeline is just below 12,000 feet. Among the mountain's fauna are the American pika, the mountain goat, elk, mule deer, moose, Canada jay, martin, and the yellow-bellied marmot.

In the Arapaho Language the Collegiate Range and Mount Massive are called Hiwoxuu hookuhu'ee or Elk's Head.

title: Mount Massive


text:
Paul Waaktaar-Savoy

Paul Waaktaar-Savoy (born Pål Gamst, 6 September 1961 ) is a Norwegian musician and songwriter. Waaktaar-Savoy is best known for his work as the main songwriter and guitarist in the Norwegian pop band a-ha, which has sold more than 50 million albums worldwide. He has written or co-written most of the band's biggest hits, including "The Sun Always Shines on T.V.", "Hunting High and Low", "Take On Me", the 1987 James Bond theme "The Living Daylights" and the ballad "Summer Moved On". In addition, Waaktaar-Savoy is also a painter.

Waaktaar-Savoy was named Knights First Class of the Order of St. Olav by King Harald for his services to Norwegian music and his international success.

Early life
Waaktaar-Savoy was born to the Gamst family on 6 September 1961 in Tonsenhagen, Norway, at the outskirts of Oslo, and was raised in Oslo's Manglerud district with his older sister Tongje. His birth name is Pål Gamst; in the Norwegian language, an acceptable alternate spelling of his first name is Paal. His father was a pharmacist, and his mother worked at the phone company. He is a distant relative of Norwegian footballer Morten Gamst Pedersen.

His parents appreciated classical music, and encouraged young Pål first to learn the flute, then to study music composition when his performance skill revealed him to be a child prodigy. He admired the music of American rock guitarist Jimi Hendrix, and hoped one day to write a rock opera similar to Hair. He used his mother's family name, Waaktaar, in his stage name, to become Pål Waaktaar. He also enjoyed reading and painting. He was a loner, not social at school, and was unsuccessful attracting girlfriends in his teens.

Bridges
Pål Waaktaar, as he was then known, was lead singer, guitarist and songwriter in the Norwegian rock band Bridges, along with keyboardist Magne Furuholmen (with whom he later formed a-ha with singer Morten Harket), drummers Erik Hagelien and Øystein Jevanord, and bassist Viggo Bondi. In 1980, Bridges released their first album, the self-financed LP Fakkeltog. Although the title is Norwegian (meaning torchlight procession), the songs are in English. At the request of Harket, a-ha performed the Fakkeltog song "The Vacant" (renamed "Sox of the Fox") during their 2017 MTV Unplugged performance, released as MTV Unplugged – Summer Solstice.

An unreleased Bridges song called "The Juicy Fruit Song" later evolved into "Lesson One" and then into the a-ha hit "Take On Me".

In 2018, Bridges' second album, Våkenatt ("Wakeful Night"), was released. The album was recorded in late 1980 and early 1981, but was discarded after Paul and Magne Furuholmen decided to go to London, which made Viggo Bondi and Øystein Jevanord to leave the group.

a-ha
Waaktaar-Savoy is the lead guitarist and main songwriter for a-ha, one of the most successful bands of the 1980s. Once "Q Magazine" named him as one of the best unknown lyricists of his generation. a-ha performed "Summer Moved On" live at the Nobel-Peace-Prize-Concert following a hiatus. After this, they decided to record a new album and, in 2000, a-ha had the comeback of the year, followed by a sold-out tour. The a-ha album "Lifelines" was released in 2002. The following tour was documented in a-ha's second official live album, How Can I Sleep with Your Voice in My Head, which was released in March 2003.

In 2005 the compilation album The Singles: 1984-2004 was released, their last album with WEA. After that, a-ha signed to Universal. Analogue was released later that year. The title-track entered the UK-charts at No. 10. The band's ninth studio album, Foot of the Mountain was released in 2009. After that they split, but in 2015 reunited again and released a new studio album, Cast in Steel.

Waaktaar-Savoy has said "Morten is totally different from me. When we first came to London together, he burned all my clothes and re-dressed me from head to toe. I don't care much about clothes, whereas he's always very interested in them. He has given me self-confidence, encourages me to talk to people, not to be afraid and to use the abilities I have. Morten is actually the only one in Norway who had as much ambition as I did. I guess we both have big egos. In a way, we're each sitting in our own little world, while Mags is more down to earth. Mags often has to mediate between Morten and me... It's good that we're so different and still respect each other. The tension between us is creative. No one sings like Morten. He's got what it takes and I have great faith in him."

a-ha awarded Order of St. Olav
The three members of a-ha, Morten Harket, Magne Furuholmen and Waaktaar-Savoy, were appointed Knights of the 1st Class of the Royal Norwegian Order of St. Olav for their contribution to Norwegian music. The Royal Norwegian Order of St. Olav is granted as a reward for distinguished services to their country and mankind. The official ceremony took place on 6 November 2012.

Savoy
With his wife Lauren Savoy, and drummer Frode Unneland, he has produced many CDs as the band Savoy. In 2001 Waaktaar released his fourth studio album, "Reasons to Stay Indoors", which was again a big success in Norway. On 30 August 2004, Savoy released their fifth studio album called 'Savoy' through their own label, Eleventeen Records.

Savoy achieved great success in Norway, selling over 300,000 records. They have been nominated for Spellemannprisen (Norwegian equivalent of the Grammy Award) four times and have won three times. a-ha's version of the song "Velvet" appears in the film One Night at McCool's and "Whalebone" appears in the highly acclaimed Norwegian film Hawaii, Oslo.

Weathervane
With Jimmy Gnecco he presented Weathervane as a new project in June 2011. Their self-titled single (Weathervane) appears on the soundtrack for the movie Headhunters (based on the book "Hodejegerne" by Jo Nesbø).

Waaktaar
In February 2014 Waaktaar-Savoy premiered a new track under the name Waaktaar through a-ha.com. The track is called "Manmade Lake".

Waaktaar and Zoe
In September 2016 Waaktaar-Savoy formed a new duo with singer Zoe Gnecco (daughter of Weathervane singer Jimmy Gnecco), called Waaktaar and Zoe. They released two singles, "Beautiful Burnout" (2016) and "Tearful Girl" (January 2018), both taken from the album "World of Trouble", released in February 2017.

Painting
Waaktaar-Savoy has painted all his life. His trademark is not starting to paint until the canvas has been fitted with a frame. This trait was played upon in his debut and so far sole exhibition "Rammer" (meaning "Frames" in Norwegian) in Lillehammer, Norway in 1998.

Descriptions by the rest of a-ha
Magne Furuholmen describes Waaktaar-Savoy thus: "Pål is the person who has meant most to me in my musical development and yet he’s the one person I find it most difficult to say anything sensible about. He has incredible will-power and a watchful eye, always searching for material he can use creatively. In a way, I have idolized Pål for years and I still depend on him to help me sort out my own ideas."

Morten Harket describes Waaktaar-Savoy thus: "Pål has unbelievable self-discipline and is a workaholic. He can keep working on what appears to be the same thing over and over again. While I go crazy when I have to go over a song hundreds of times, he can sit with it for hours, trying to find exactly the right mix to achieve the sound he wants. Pål is really the driving force behind a-ha. He’s one of the few real artists on the pop rock scene. It's always exciting to hear what he's written."

Personal life
Waaktaar met American filmmaker and musician Lauren Savoy in 1984, and they married in a civil ceremony on 21 December 1991, officiated by the Norwegian Bar Association leader Merete Smith, with family and bandmates in attendance. The couple combined surnames to create Waaktaar-Savoy. They have one child together, True August Waaktaar-Savoy, born in 1999. The family divides its time between New York City and Oslo. After years of fighting the Anglophone media to correct the spelling of his first name, in 1994 he settled on a spelling of "Paul".

title: Paul Waaktaar-Savoy


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/McDartins and Googloo

This page is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of the pages entitled McDartins and Googloo.

This page is kept as an historic record.

The result of the debate was to delete the article.

can't find anything about them on google. Maximus Rex 01:49, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

 * This page: pretty well says it all.  Delete.  RickK 02:07, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Hmm. The page seems a bit nutters, yet fun. Still, delete. Rhymeless 03:50, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - that's just weird. -- Cyrius|&#9998 01:39, May 25, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue or the deletion should be placed on other relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Personal digital assistant

give me answer of verbal

It's an obsolete TERM
While no one sells "PDAs" anymore, the iPad is certainly by definition a PDA. Just like "texting" came from "IMing" and IMing came from an earlier technology, this TERM is obsolete. Not the idea. Perhaps this article should be merged with smartphones.

--Thomasfromriverside (talk) 05:55, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I disagree. I think PDAs themselves are obsolete, rather than PDA being an obsolete term for Smartphone. PDAs were definitely superceded by Smartphones in terms of functionality, but the difference is in the intent of each device.

 * I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but in my mind PDAs were always about being extensions of the owners memory--replacing rolodex, personal calendars, etc., vs being communication devices such as Smartphones are. This can be seen in how well Palm Calendar & Addressbook were designed (Google Calendar is only now catching up, while Google Mail's Contacts function still sucks), and how poorly Palm's IP/PPP Stack performed. The focus for PDAs was on augmentation of the user's memory, not communciation with other people, because at that time (1990s) the communication infrastructures didn't exist or weren't up to the challenge of data. Jdimpson (talk) 23:51, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

It's 2013
I'm not being sarcastic at all -- is anyone (outside of the 'ruggedized' realm) still making PDAs? As in, a smart device without cellular telephony capabilities? Is there a single widely-available product on the market that is not sold as an entertainment device? HP/Compaq quit making them AFAIK, same with Dell and Sony; Palm is no more, and Microsoft's mobile OS is called Windows Phone. (And they don't even make a non-phone product anymore -- Zune is dead, too.) The iPod touch and comparable Android devices technically have PDA functions but are not sold as such -- they're all entertainment devices that happen to come with calendar and note-taking apps. It's like saying a car is a portable radio because it moves and has a radio in it. If nobody who sells them calls them PDAs anymore, I think that should be noted. Most of the products in the "Popular consumer PDAs" section have been discontinued for years. I really think this whole page should be re-framed as a product line that evolved into smartphones and entertainment devices, and no longer exists in the form it originally did -- unless you count those junky 4-line "electronic organizers" you can buy in drugstores. (And I'm pretty sure anyone can draw a clear distinction between cheap "electronic organizers" and the PDAs of yore.) BrianAshe (talk) 05:34, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Ugh its like holding a small book to your head
I removed the line "Ugh its like holding a small book to your head." for the following reasons If anyone objects then please revert the page MichaelBillington 06:59, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I have never heard the word "Ugh" in an article
 * It should be "it's" not "its"
 * Since when have PDAs been held to one's head?

 * Since PDA devices incorporated mobile phone technology... AndyyE 19:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * they are like a book when u hold them when taking a call its stupid and why do you correct this guys point??annoying?? :D:D<<< >>> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.206.231.125 (talk) 09:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Old talk
Other terms : Handheld PC.

Why doesn't Microbrowser convert into a link?

PADD
The Star Trek PADD is said to have been one of the inspirations for PDAs user:ted-m 6-6-2005

 * Hmm, that's an interesting observation. On a related note, I remember Jake Sisko in DS9 writing a novel using a PADD with a Palm-style freehand area below a text display, so it's been a nice two-way exchange. BTW, you can make the Wikipedia automatically sign your posts by entering four of these things in a row: ~ . Thus: Sockatume 03:09, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Considering the first PADD was seen in Encounter at Farpoint in 1987, and the first flat calculator-like PDA was in 1978, it is not likely the former influenced the latter. Corvus 19:23, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * good point. I hope you don't mind my copy-and-paste of your comment into the PADD article. --DavidCary 15:23, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"PDAs plus full-size keyboards"
Over in Talk:Laptop, I've been chatting about things like the Cambridge Z88, and the TRS-80 Model 100 line, and the AlphaSmart Dana, and the Atari Portfolio. They don't quite match up with current perception of laptop computers -- they are instant on, have long battery life, can't run Windows, etc. I think of them as "PDAs plus full-size keyboards". This personal digital assistant article claims that the Dana is a PDA, and those other devices seem to me to be very similar to the Dana. So, should I tag them all with Category:PDAs, or would it better to make some other sub-category of Category:Portable_computers to put them in? --DavidCary 15:23, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Please note that smartphones have full pledged OSs(Windows CE, Symbian, Linux). There is also an Information appliances article that are charactized by their 'smartness ' and touchscreen. There is also a handheld device article... Does the keyboard characterize portable computers?--Jondel 04:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Cleaned up a bit and stuff
I removed the old comments, I hope people don't mind. (If you think any of the comments are still relevant, just add them back.) Anyway, I think the link sections still need some kind of cleanup, there are still too many links IMHO. Also I'm not sure if all the info in the overview section is necessary, in particular the section which I've named "Increasing popularity". Not sure about "Popular PDAs" either, this section should maybe just link to some of the most known? But the "History" part could probably be longer, although I don't know much about the history myself.

PS: If someone works on the "See also" section, consider adding Handheld PC. --Mythril 19:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

 * How to archive a talk page. It is customary to archive, not delete, talk pages.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, please don't delete from Talk pages. For one thing, I often see the same arguments (discussions?) multiple times on a page.  We can't FORCE editors to read previous topics, but at least they should be available for reference.  And, PLEASE, sign and date your posts.  I don't know when the "sig-bots" were implemented, but there are a lot of confusing, run-together, unsigned posts on this page.  Thanks ;).  Rags69.171.178.88 (talk) 09:49, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Other purposes
I don't think all modern PDAs support game emulation software. Somebody should denote what brand of PDA dosen't support it, and other purposes. Nobody wants to buy the wrong PDA for the wrong reason as some PDAs are not as versatile as others. --Nintendude 09:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed the mention of emulators, as it's not really useful to the article.--Mythril 19:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Study details needed
While not necessarily inaccurate, these numbers don't mean much in isolation. For instance, the numbers alone do not indicate if all Palm OS-running handhelds and phones were compared to all Windows CE-running handhelds and phones, or if the comparison was single-function PDAs alone (not including smartphones). If I am right about which study is being referred to here, the study excluded smartphones -- which would include Palm's most popular line, the Treo. -- Steven Fisher 19:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I am removing it for lack of references. Alexius08 (talk) 13:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Overview: History
Is Palms/Palm Pilots really used as a generic term for PDAs? First I've heard of it. 86.132.0.242 01:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

At least in holland it is. And since palm used to be THE pda it seems likely that many people still refer to their pda as palm. Besides palm sounds cool, pda sounds sort of nerdy to me.

It's not used in the same extent that a "PC" is always considered based on Windows unless otherwise noted (eg Linux PC) but fairly often used for any kind of PDA.

Yes, people do overgeneralize with Palm (in California). I've often thought it was my duty (as a PC technician) to inform people that the generic term was PDA, not 'Palm'. The interesting thing is that I never heard it called 'Personal Digital Assistant'. It was always 'Personal Data Assistant'. Just do a Google, you'll see many (though a minority, a significant minority) use 'Data' instead of 'Digital'. Odd, I wonder where the reference to 'Data' came from. PDA, Nerdy? I disagree! :-)

"Struddle my Noodle"
Pointless. Use the Sandbox instead. I deleted it.

PalmOne --> Palm
Does this need changing?

PDA Watches
Is there room in this article to add a short discussion of PDA watches, or would that go better somewhere else?

I'm thinking of things like the original Timex Data Link, which I think was one of the first organizer watches. It also used that blinky CRT method to download data, which made it sort of interesting. I'm just not sure where it goes. (prev unsigned, guess the bots missed it)
 * I enjoyed my Casio Databanks, but I don't think they qualify: only addressbk, calendar, calc functions. I'd say, if the watch had PIM/PDA functions, it should be included.  There are probably much better ones on the market, now, though I'm not up-to-date.  Someone more familiar should add them.
 * Rags69.171.178.29 (talk) 09:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Educational - POV
The educational section reads like it was copied from an advertisement. Han-Kwang 09:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree - having taught for many years PDAs are still too slow for effective note-taking, I am observing increasing use of digital audio recording, often without requesting permission first, but no note taking using PDAs. I suggest this section needs revision or deletion. Tony Davies (talk) 10:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed this too, and think a problem with it is that it reads like an essay (both in the sense of reading like a personal reflection pushed as facts and the general tone of the writing), so I added the template for that. If it's to be fixed, it looks like it will need a major revision or rewrite done to it. — Northgrove 18:15, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I took a pass at this while performing a general copy-edit. How does it look now?  I don't see anything terribly non-neutral about it at the moment, although it could sure use some references for the claims made. Macwhiz (talk) 04:11, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Grammar
Can people please remember that the correct plural is "PDAs", not "PDA's"? The apostrophe should not be there. --Tiberius47 04:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC) I agree

And please check spellings before posting drivel!

Yes! I want my drivel properly spelleded.Jedaniel (talk) 04:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Operating systems -- things to remember
Please remember the following things when you edit stuff regarding operating systems: FrederikHertzum 08:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC) Would it then be acceptable to refer to a PDA running such an operating system as being "GNU/Linux-based"? This is how Richard Stallman refers to the entirety of the code which comprises the operating system in dispute here.
 * Desktops are not operating systems. They are, just like Linux, components in an operating system. Plese treat them as such.
 * Only one name covers an operating system. Each operating system will have differences and each of them will want to be treated differently -- even if they do share some components or have similar functionality. If you want to refer to some missing functionality in an operating system, please do not refer to one of it's components, but use the full name of the operating system. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FrederikHertzum (talk • contribs) 08:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

external keyboards
Good catch on that. Alatari (talk) 14:28, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Images
Those images are nice but the are pushing the POV towards Palm devices. Unless the machines are the top sellers of all time maybe we should stick with a stylized image to avoid favoring one brand. Otherwise we'll have to put up pics up an iPhone, Ipaq, Treo, Toshiba e-series, etc, etc. Alatari (talk) 00:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

People with disabilities
Changes should be self-explanatory, but in a nutshell: previous section version (titled "PDAs for the Visually Impaired") was both inaccurate and written in a personal voice. Comments were insulting and ill-informed. kid shelley (talk) 01:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

''Also, I found that the last line seemed out of place, something that should be replaced with something like "See other article for more details" could be better placed there... I don't think this article has anything to do with occupational therapists, no matter how important of a role they take. -- 24.247.181.64 (talk)'' —Preceding undated comment added 05:02, 12 September 2009 (UTC).

Popular Models
Deleted "OQO..." from list of popular PDAs. The OQO products are considered UMPCs, not PDAs. They are comparable to the Laptop in functionality, similar to the Samsung Q1 series, the Asus EeePCs, and TabletKiosk's eo models. See Ultra-Mobile PC for more information. Jedaniel (talk) 04:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Confusing Statistics.
"Stand-alone PDA sales fell 43.5% from 2006 to 2007. Approximately 4 million PDAs are sold per year. However, with smartphone sales increasing from levels of approximately 60 million per year, more telephones are being used as PDAs with phone capability.

According to a Gartner market study, the overall market for PDAs grew by 20.7% in the third quarter (Q3) of 2005, compared to Q3 2004, with marketshare resolving as follows (by operating system):[citation needed]"

This data is confusing, the market is declining it seems however there are statistics of an increasing market years prior. Is this necessary? SupersawLead (talk) 08:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, the article currently states: "Over 150 million smartphones are sold each year, while "stand-alone" PDAs without phone functionality sell only about 3 million units per year." How does one reconcile 3 million units per year with 960 million iPod touch PDAs sold in roughly four and a half years? Or does the ability to run the Skype app count as "phone functionality"? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 23:23, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Am doing major revision of the stats part, here my reasoning
I agree the stats part is very confusing. I'll first establish the growth part - ie the smartphone part (is 150 M in 2008), then show that meanwhile the stand-alone PDA market keeps on shrinking (is 3 M in 2008).

I'll also put the operating system stats into order of size of current market share first (from Gartner) before the growth/decline percentages. Tomi T Ahonen (talk) 18:30, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Is there the ultimate digital organizer?
(When I say 'digital organizer' I have in mind only its primary purpose (like the old ones).)

(which implies: simple monochromatic LCD, limited back-light, non-rechargeable batteries with great capacity, memory limitations (but 2MB or even 4MB at least))
 * Digital organizer on which you worry about batteries once in 6 months at most.
 * Full QWERTY hardware keyboard (ideally entire standard PC keyboard layout)
 * No cover lid (implying scratch-proof display and keyboard (the kind like on those credit-card-sized solar calculators if you've seen one ( http://images.virtualvillage.com/001495-001/001.jpg ), but with slightly raised buttons which make a small click when pressed under that scratch-proof membrane))
 * Screen with fair resolution so that a lot of text is viewable at once (maybe 32x8 characters or even 64x16)
 * Unlimited text entries (for example CASIO models had 384 character limit per data entry)
 * All the standard functions (and possibly ability to add new functions), quick, reliable, and all of them readily available through hardware function buttons
 * USB connection for easy and quick memory backup and editing

Catastrophic situation
There is not even one purposeful PDA on the market. Why isn't there a PDA the size of credit card you could easily slip into any pocket, waterproof so sweat can't harm it, with batteries you worry about only once in 6 months at most, memory of no more and no less than 4MB, qwerty keyboard and a simple monochromatic display you can actually READDD in direct sunlight! PDA you can actually relay on... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.31.46 (talk) 23:07, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

PDA wristwatch
Perfect PDA could also be a wristwatch - so it is readily available on your hand instead of dragging it in your pockets, but not like those programmable Palm-OS ones with touchscreen - no - it consumes too much power. The perfect PDA wristwatch is the one like those old ones with keyboard. Such perfect PDA wristwatch would operate at least two months on one CR2032 battery, and would have alphanumeric buttons circling the circular watch face (that is a simple matrix LCD). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.31.46 (talk) 19:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Internet access necessary part of PDAs?
The article's lead states that PDAs have the ability to access the Internet. This wasn't true for virtually all early PDAs in and of themselves. The Palm series, up through the Palm III at least, did not have built-in Internet access; you could add different modem modules as an accessory. I think that this language should clarified to indicate that current PDAs typically have Internet access; there are plenty of cheap off-brand ones that do not. Macwhiz (talk) 00:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

 * The newer PDAs had integrated Internet support, but I think the earliest PDA was the Palm VII with a Mobitex data option from 1999. I have a Sony Clie from 2003 that has provisions for a CompactFlash Wi-Fi card. GB 86 02:10, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I went ahead and modified the lead of the article so that Internet connectivity is referred to as a common feature of modern PDAs, rather than a required feature for inclusion in the category of PDAs. GB's recollection matches mine, and I can think of several cheapie discount-store devices currently available that I'd (technically) call PDAs that have no Internet capabilities whatsoever. Macwhiz (talk) 04:11, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Definitely agree, IP-over-serial (wire or IrDA) was an add-on to PalmOS in 1997 or so, but you needed a modem or another computer to act as the other end of the serial connection, which is no where near the always-on behaviour we have today. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but in my mind PDAs were always about being extensions of the owners memory--replacing rolodex, personal calendars, etc., vs being communication devices. Early on, Palm and its developers remained focused on this fact, to the point where by the time Internet access was important and going to happen, Palm was ill-prepared to deal with it. So I think the statement "Nearly all current PDAs have the ability to connect to the Internet" in the second paragraph really needs to be toned down significantly. I believe few of the PDA users had connectivity other than periodic batch synchronization (HotSync). Jdimpson (talk) 23:42, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

USB on PDAs
The article currently states "Some PDAs also have a USB port, mainly for USB flash drives." (emphasis added) I'd like to see a source to back this up. In my experience, most PDAs that have a USB port use it for synchronization, to charge an internal rechargeable battery, or to connect accessories. It seems to me that USB flash drives are among the least typical uses for a PDA's USB port. Macwhiz (talk) 01:49, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I see what you mean. I know that some Windows Mobile PDAs (and none that run PalmOS) have USB host functionality that allows use of a USB drive; however the USB port's main use is for data and/or power. GB 86 02:07, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I suggest merging this article with Handheld PC due to the identical roots of development. -- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  PRAISE GOOD WORKS 16:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

PPC vs PDA
If you merge articles, please distinguish between PPC and PDA. Sometimes the difference is important. For example, there are programs designed to record moves at chess tournaments that are allowed to be used on PPCs but not on phone-based PDAs, since outside communication is not allowed during a chess tournament. See U S Chess Federation website, and their approval of the e-Notate software: http://main.uschess.org/images/stories/scholastic_chess_resources/electronicscoresheet2.pdf 75.53.202.224 (talk) 15:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)Chesster
 * "Pocket PC" refers to PDAs running a Microsoft OS. But do the chess leagues' rules specifically mention a Microsoft product? Would the software be allowed on an iOS-powered iPod touch, an Android-powered Archos 43, or an Android-powered Galaxy Player? Like a Pocket PC, these handheld computers have only Wi-Fi, not cellular. --Pino (t|c) 23:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The opening line in the smartphone article states that "A smartphone is a mobile phone that offers more advanced computing ability and connectivity than a contemporary feature phone.". Not only is it a misnomer to state that a smartphone is a "mobile phone", but the very notion "smartphone" is a misnomer per se. It is misleading to state that the smartphone is a "mobile phone" with more advanced features simply due to the fact that a smartphone is a complete microcomputer with numerous advanced features that rival the phone functionality. The modern smart phone typically combines i.a. a PMP (Portable Media Player), digital camera, digital video camera, a MID (Mobile Internet Device), GPS, video games and the ability to run arbitrary programs as well as interface with external devices; the GSM functionality is one small feature of its functionality. There already is a term in the sadly deteriorating terminology of computer science for these devices, and that is Personal Digital Assistant. This term is much more general and and does not emphasize any single feature over any other feature. '''The feature(s) most used depends on the user, not the device when dealing with a device as general as this. Calling a PDA a smartphone is akin to calling a PC a "Word Processor", even though that is only one single feature of the device.'''

For the reasons stated above I hereby state that the entire smartphone article should be merged with the PDA article and the term smartphone should redirect to the PDA article -- these two articles describe the same type of device and should support each other by becoming merged into one single article. The article should describe the history of the PDA and the history of the mobile phone up to the point where every modern smartphone is a PDA and almost every PDA is a smartphone (yes, there are still PDAs without phone functionality).

Posix memalign (talk) 23:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

 * As discussed in Talk:Smartphone, I disagree. The two articles are large enough separately and this one should remain to discuss its oldfashioned topic, even when in a few years this product is no longer made.  The article should link prominently to the surviving children of PDA, namely smartphone and tablet computer.  And yes, I use various computeristic features of my Samsung Intercept every day, but don't use it as a phone every week.  Nonetheless, the correct or at least conventional term for such an Android phone is "smartphone". Jim.henderson (talk) 15:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

 * No PDAs predate smart phones by at least a decade. These are not the same thing. Maybe we could merge all the pokemon articles with all the smurf articles, because hey, they're all cartoon characters, right? --MoonLichen (talk) 03:16, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You are wrong, take a look at the Personal Digital Assistant article, there are PDAs that are smartphones, such as the Nokia 9000 Communicator. You may also derive the fact that a smartphone is a type of PDA from the very definition given in the smartphone article, this is trivial. Posix memalign (talk) 16:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose. By your reasoning we might as well merge them both with Computer and throw in Mainframe computer, Microcomputer and Personal computer while we're at it. They are different devices. Mojoworker (talk) 23:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * By your reasoning we should have a whole article for every term that has ever been used in a faulty way by the general public.
 * How is the smartphone and the PDA any more different than a laptop with 802.11* functionality and a laptop without this functionality? How about a PDA with 802.11* and/or 802.15*, and a PDA without these features?
 * The PC and the mainframe are highly differentiated by everything, such as price, size, functionality, users, actual use and architecture. The PDA and the smartphone have one single feature that differentiates them: the GSM functionality.
 * The only reason the smartphone term and article exists in the first place is due to faulty use of terminology. The mobile phone has evolved into becoming a general purpose computer by having one feature after the other added to it, i.e. becoming a PDA -- the general purpose computer did not evolve into becoming a phone, it merely has the phone feature as well. Posix memalign (talk) 16:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The smartphones for Verizon Wireless and Sprint don't have GSM functionality. Those networks run CDMA2000. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 23:43, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nowadays a PDA would be called a "4-inch tablet", just as a "netbook" has become a "10-inch laptop". Archos, for example, uses this terminology for its Archos 43 Internet Tablet. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 23:43, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, nowadays the majority of cameras, calculators, E-readers and GPS receivers are smartphones. No, that doesn't mean all those articles should be merged into a gigantic one that I won't be able to read on my smartphone. Jim.henderson (talk) 16:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Measuring Distance
Is there a program for Pocket PC that enables the user to measure distance using the devices IR sensor? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.31.46 (talk) 22:38, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I have wondered about that type application myself. 'Twould be a great asset to those like me who can calculate, but have little ability to estimate either linear size, beyond a few meters, or area, say, of a large room, or a parking lot or construction site.  This question will be answered quicker at the Wikipedia Reference Desk, however.  Article Discussion or Talkpages are reserved for discussions concerning article creation/editing/merging, etc.
 * Rags69.171.187.29 (talk) 07:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Old numbers
The statistics in this article are over 5 years old. Won't someone help to update? Rags69.171.187.81 (talk) 10:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Samsung Galaxy Note
The article should mention Galaxy Note, because it's a smartphone with pen referencing to older PDAs.Piotrek54321 (talk) 18:20, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

future?

what somthing abut pda`s future (how it will be in the future ) ? becuse i think concept of pda (other then those that read/watch cyberpunk/dystopia/utopia books/movies) was becuse they did read it in a magazin or watch a promo/documentary abut how computer and comunication would be in 10-15 years... like ppl now hear abut hologram computers and glasses that are build in internet conections  murakami 82.147.33.187 (talk) 14:56, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

is/was
Every device listed in the "Popular consumer PDAs" section of the article is at least 5 years old.

I wonder, when exactly "is a mobile device that..." in the first sentence of the article should be changed into "was a mobile device that..."? 37.0.68.80 (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

 * The BlackBerry, which remains in production and use is called a "smartphone," but is certainly a PDA. The language has moved on. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:45, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I guess something about the change in technology and language should be included in the lede. What is a good source? User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

A query...
Is an iPod Touch, by technicality, a PDA? Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 15:07, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course, any smartphone is. Just as any automobile is a carriage, "a wheeled vehicle for people." User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:39, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, aside from the fact that an iPod touch isn't a smartphone…. (I thing it was Jobs who called it "an iPhone without the phone"). The term PDA as-a-device is archaic; no device currently in production is even technically a "PDA". The functions of a PDA are now a subset of the functions of a Smartphone, but a PDA as-a-device no longer exists. CRobClark (talk) 21:09, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

List of PDAs
This link http://www.2t.com is an eye-opener whether it is a PDA or not. So what is an handheld device that reads bar codes, prints, and you can carry around a workplace called? User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:38, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Obsolete or not
I don't think the term is obsolete. It is the only term that encompass all type of device such smartphone, tablets or any pass or future hand handled device that is use by an individual — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.35.210.19 (talk) 20:58, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

What about the Tandy Zoomer ??
Where would it fit in? You know it does somewhere.

PDA today ??
The article states "PDAs have been mostly displaced by the widespread adoption of highly capable smartphones, in particular those based on iOS and Android.[3]"

So what are the models that are in use today, who manufactures them, who uses them??? Setenzatsu.2 (talk) 10:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

v Pocket PC
I believe distincion needs to be made; when a pocket PC is a PDA and when a PD is not a Pocket PC. For example we have HTC Magician and HTC Universal which are both. I am aware of the first sentence in the Pocket PC article but it needs to be explained in this article also. There is also a problem of linux pocket pc - there are a number of those that have native linux support. Just below (Cosmo Communicator) we have one with dual android/linux os. 89.201.184.159 (talk) 00:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Resurgence ??
Cosmo Communicator, Gemini PDA 4G are smartphones, but are also like a hand-held laptop (design and OS, linux (with android)). Smartphones are basically PDA's with phone call and SMS functions, maybe it's time to turn around. There are a few "laptops" the size of a smartphone or phablet with call/sms function. 89.201.184.159 (talk) 00:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:PDA (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:46, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

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Valledupar

Valledupar is a city and municipality in northeastern Colombia. It is the capital of Cesar Department. Its name, Valle de Upar (Valley of Upar), was established in honor of the Amerindian cacique who ruled the valley; Cacique Upar. The city lies between the mountains of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta and the Serranía del Perijá to the borders of the Guatapurí and Cesar rivers.

Valledupar is an important agricultural, cattle raising, coal mining and agro-industrial center for the region between the Departments of Cesar and southern municipalities of La Guajira Department, formerly known as the Padilla Province. Valledupar is notable as the cradle of vallenato music, representative of the Colombian culture. The city hosts the Vallenato Legend Festival.

During the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, the city suffered during the Colombian Armed Conflict, with numerous kidnappings, thousands of people forced out and failure to control crime.

Valledupar has one of Colombia's most modern maximum security prisons.

Geography
Valledupar is located southeast of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta. Its average temperature is 28 °C. Because of its relatively high altitude and proximity to the equator, it has a variety of environments, from warm heat to perpetual snow. Notable geographic features in Valledupar include the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta's peaks; the Codazzi, El Guardian, the Ojeda and La Reina. Many rivers descend from its snowy peaks and lagoons; the Ariguani, Ariguanicito, Badillo, Calderas, Cesar, Curiba, Donachui, Garupal, Guatapuri, which borders the city of Valledupar; and the Mariangola.

The Municipality of Valledupar is bordered on the north with the municipalities of Riohacha and San Juan del Cesar in the department of La Guajira. To the south are the municipalities of El Paso and Los Robles La Paz in the department of Cesar; to the east are the municipalities of Villanueva and Urumita, also in the Department of La Guajira; and to the west are the municipalities Fundacion and Aracataca, in the department of Magdalena.

The municipality has an area of about 4,977.96 km², from which 72,660 km² pertain to the Arhuacos Indian Reserve, 399.52 km² to the Kogui and Wiwa Indian Reserve, and 425.60 km² to the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta National Park.

Fauna and flora
The municipality is home to numerous endemic species, mostly living in the ecosystem of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta and Serrania del Perijá mountains, one of the most biodiverse places in the world. The most recently discovered species of bees was found in rural areas of Valledupar and named Stelis vallenata in tribute to the local Vallenato music.

The city's symbolic bird is the Turpial. Other notable birds that inhabit the region are the parrots that flock the fruit trees year round.

During the colonial period, Spaniards introduced invasive European fauna into the region, such as dogs, cats, rats, mice, cattle, horses, mules, goats and gallineta africana, doves, among others. Spaniards also introduced numerous species of flora from all over the world into the region, most notably mango trees, which have become the most popular tree in the city and municipality. However, the symbolic trees of the city are two types of Yellow Tabebuia, colloquially called "Cañaguate" and Puy. These trees cover the region with their notorious yellow blossom flowers during the dry season.

The entities in charge of protecting and controlling the fauna and flora in the region are the Colombian Ministry of Environment, the local decentralized agency Corpocesar, under the Governor of the Cesar Department and Environmental Police of the Colombian National Police. Other non-profit organizations collaborate with these entities.

Climate
Climate in the municipality of Valledupar is determined by altitude. Half of the region is mountainous and the rest is plains in between the mountain ranges of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta and the Serrania del Perijá. Throughout the year, the region has two dry seasons and two rainy seasons affected by El Niño and La Niña phenomena. The peaks of the mountainous region gets snow during the rainy season and much cooler days and depending on the weather, the entire region gets hit lightly by hailstorms and thunderstorms. The regions is slightly affected by the annual Caribbean hurricane season. The levels of rivers and bodies of water increase in the rainy season, and vegetation grows green and bushy. During the dry season, vegetation dries and turns mostly yellow, while bodies of water decrease in volume.

In 2013, Valledupar was classified on average as the hottest place in Colombia, according to the Colombian Meteorological Institute, IDEAM.

History

The Spanish named the Valle de Upar (Valley of Upar) after a legendary local Amerindian cacique, Upar, leader of the indigenous Chimila. The region was first explored by Pedro de Badillo. It was conquered in 1532 by the German Ambrosius Ehinger, governor of Venezuela, who invaded the area belonging to the government of Santa Marta. The city was founded in 1550 by the Spanish conquistador, Captain Hernando de Santana, who named it. The Catholic Church commonly referred to the city as Ciudad de los Santos Reyes de Valle de Upar (city of the holy kings of Valledupar) because it was founded on the 6th day of January, Epiphany, the day the three kings visited the infant Jesus. The name was gradually modified to Valle Dupar and then to Valledupar.

Since the colonization period, the region has been a center for imports from the Caribbean area and distribution to the inland. Spaniards traveled through the area and established extensive farming, mainly rearing imported European cattle (among many animals) and agriculture. Much of the population of the Chimila Nation died from epidemics of new infectious diseases carried by the Europeans; survivors were worked at forced labor, and many died during battles.

On May 22, 1810, some 400 inhabitants of the Cabildo of the Valle de Upar rebelled against the Spanish monarchy, protesting against Mayor Colonel Marques de Valde-Hoyos. The mayor fled to neighboring San Juan del Cesar, leaving in charge V. Ruiz de Gomez. In 1813 independence from Spain was proclaimed by María Concepción Loperena de Fernandez de Castro, a wealthy land owner who helped supply three hundred horses to El Libertador Simón Bolívar's revolutionary army.

In 1850, the city became capital of the Valledupar Province and in 1864 was elevated to capital of the Valledupar Department of the Federal State of Magdalena. In 1915, after the political and administrative division restructuring of the Unitarian Colombian State, Valledupar was proclaimed the municipality of the Valledupar Province, part of the Federal State of Magdalena during the United States of Colombia era. The region maintained relative isolation from the rest of the country due to its low importance at the time. The violent political struggles of the different governments of Colombia took place mostly in larger cities, such as Bogotá.

During World War II, the city received many immigrants from Europe, especially French, Germans and Italians. Later it attracted immigrants from the Middle East. In 1956 it was proclaimed a parish by the Catholic Church. After the Republic of Colombia was created and the Department of Cesar was established in 1967, Valledupar became its capital.

The region started developing quickly due to political support from the former President Alfonso López Michelsen, first governor of the Department of Cesar's and the Colombian Liberal Party. Valledupar came to be known as sorpresa caribe (the Caribbean surprise) because of its rapid economic growth during the 1970s, especially in cotton production, which local people called "white gold". Valledupar ranked second overall in economic profits for Colombia during this time. Urban growth and social change accompanied prosperity and the city developed its cultural identity throughout these years. The revival of the Vallenato music strongly symbolizes the culture of Colombia.

A period of violence erupted during the mid-1980s, disrupting the peaceful growth. A struggling leftist political party, the Patriotic Union (U.P.), was led by a banker, Juvenal Ovidio Ricardo Palmera Pineda. Because of his incendiary remarks during a peasant strike and protest in the main plaza, he was jailed. After being given amnesty by Jorge Dangond Daza, the governor of the Department, Palmera went into hiding. The national government and conservative groups started a persecution of UP's leaders and followers. Many of Palmera's followers went into exile in Europe.

He escaped into the mountains, taking refuge with the armed branch of the UP; the FARC. Palmera became a guerrilla leader; as a banker, he knew who in the city and region were wealthy. He began kidnapping (and sometimes killing) prominent political leaders, journalists and rich land owners (including members of his own family), using the ransoms to finance his organization. He took the alias Simón Trinidad.

During this period, general crime rose and, on October 15, 1994, the national bank El Banco de la Republica (Bank of the Republic) was robbed. The amount stolen: COP$24,075 million of non emitted bills (some US$11 million) and came to be known as the "El Robo del Siglo" (The bank heist of the century).

To counter FARC and ELN's abuses, and after approximately fifteen years of asphyxiating Valledupar's society and supporting negligence by the Colombian military, some prominent leaders of Valledupar, landowners and those victims of these organizations decided to become part or promote, self-defense forces that later on affiliated with the AUC and assigned another "Vallenatean" as leader Rodrigo Tovar Pupo a.k.a. Jorge 40.

The self-defense forces adopted methods like the guerrilla, including illegal drug trafficking to finance their operations. They used terrorism tactics that also affected innocent people, such as selective and random kidnappings, and combinations of racketeering and selective assassinations – the trademark of Death Squads. The AUC helped take back the region from guerrillas, but Valledupar residents had to deal with similar uncertainty in having an illegal and terrorist organization controlling the city.

The AUC northern block demobilized March 10, 2006. It is still uncertain if the Colombian military can control the two terrorist organizations or dismantle them. Because of the longstanding violence, many rural people migrated into the city. Prominent regional leaders have been killed; others were forced into bankruptcy or out of the region.

Despite the violence, since it became capital of the Department of Cesar, Valledupar developed as an important agricultural and cattle raising center for the region between the departments of Cesar and southern parts of La Guajira. It is most notable as the cradle of vallenato music, which is played with accordion, a small drum (caja) and a scraping instrument (guacharaca). Since 1968 at the end of April, the city has held an annual four-day festival, the Vallenato Legend Festival.

Politics
The Department of Cesar's government and Chamber of Deputies offices are based in Valledupar as well as other Department level entities. At City level, the Mayor of the City and the City counselors have a three-year term in office, and are in charge of local government issues. The mayor's powers are highly dependent on the budgets assigned by the Departmental government in order to execute plans.

Many local government leaders have been involved in corruption cases, investigated and sometimes incarcerated. The government bureaucracy is highly politicized, with the execution of some plans dependent on political interests and winning advantages over political adversaries. The local judiciary is also vulnerable to corruption, as well as being a target of terrorists and guerrillas.

See more: Political System of Colombia

Administrative divisions
In Valledupar 84% of the total population lives in the urban areas of the municipality with a density of approximately 68,4 inhabitants per km² (1).

 * Urban:

The city of Valledupar is made up 6 comunas subdivided into 138 barrios and Districts.

Corregimientos
The Municipality of Valledupar is divided into six different geographic zones integrated by subdivisions called Corregimientos (25), and subdivisions to this called Veredas (125) and considered rural areas of the city of Valledupar:

 * Northern Zone: 5 corregimientos divided into 42 veredas.

Corregimientos:
 * Atanquez
 * Guatapurí
 * Chemesquemena
 * La Mina
 * Los Haticos
 * Northwestern Zone: 10 corregimientos divided into 4 veredas.

Corregimientos:
 * Guacoche
 * Guacochito
 * La Vega Arriba
 * Los Corazones
 * El Jabo
 * Las Raices
 * El Alto la Vuelta
 * Badillo
 * Patillal
 * Rio Seco
 * Southeastern Zone: 2 corregimientos divided into 13 veredas.

Corregimientos:
 * Aguas Blancas
 * Valencia de Jesús
 * Southern Zone: 4 corregimientos divided into 15 veredas.

Corregimientos:
 * Guaimaral
 * Caracoli
 * Los Venados
 * El Perro
 * Southwestern Zone: 2 corregimientos divided into 30 veredas.

Corregimientos:
 * Mariangola
 * Villa Germania
 * Northwestern Zone: 2 corregimientos divided into 21 veredas.

Corregimientos:
 * Sabana Crespo
 * Azúcar Buena

Education
Education in Colombia is centralized under the Ministry of National Education according to the Constitution. The ministry also approves the functioning of private or state owned educational institutions. The largest Middle/High school in Valledupar is the Colegio Nacional Loperena (Loperena National School). The high school institutions with the highest academic level in the city are the Fundación Colegio Bilingüe de Valledupar, Colegio La Sagrada Familia, Colegio Gimnasio del Norte, Colegio San Fernando and Colegio Santa Fe.

The largest university is the Popular University of Cesar (Universidad Popular del Cesar) state owned, which has two campuses in the city. Other privately own universities operate in the city, such as the Universidad de Santander (University of Santander, UDES) and the Universidad del Area Andina (University of the Andean Area, AREANDINA). According to the Colombian Ministry of Education 2013 ECAES scores, higher education in Cesar is ranked among the 'lowest quality' in Colombia.

Technicals schools also operate in Valedupar, most notably the state owned, SENA.

Overall Educational Statistics
 * Kinder = 6,300
 * Middle School = 24,561
 * High School = 17,026
 * University = 11,910
 * Post Grade = 938
 * NOTE: this statistic is from the year 2004.

Ethnicities
Three groups of Amerindians, part of the Tairona culture, are based near this region inside Indian reserves, all named for the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta: the Arhuaco Reserve (pop. 18,500); the Kankuamo Reserve (pop. 12,000) and the Kogi-Wiwa Reserve (pop. 4,500). The Amerindian cultures have contributed traditional arts and crafts, as well as many crop management. Africans contributed to the food, religion and music and Europeans contributed to architecture, growth of the Catholic religion and other aspects, especially that of the Spanish colonial period.

The Vallenato music has been a creole fusion of these three cultures; the European accordion, the African drum and percussive elements, and the "guacharaca" from the Amerindians.

Other waves of European immigrants came during the 1940s to 1950s while trying to escape World War II or social crisis; mostly from Spain, Germany and France.

From approximately the 1960s, waves of immigrants from the Middle East started arriving in the city. They have been sympathetically nicknamed Turcos (Turks) by locals. Immigrants have been welcomed and are able to become part of society, marrying into traditional Valledupar families.

Economy
The economy of Valledupar is based primarily on commerce, retail and banking in the urban area, mainly in the service industry and tourism during the four-day Vallenato Legend Festival. The city also serves as a business hub for the two nearby coal mines, Cerrejon (La Guajira) and Drummond (Cesar). The region's economy also relies on the primary sector; Agriculture and cattle raising which are the historical backbone of the local economy. During the 1970s, the region experienced an economic boom because of a massive production of cotton when worldwide demand was high. This helped to modernize Valledupar, and it became the second most productive region in Colombia for some time. The cotton boom ended during the 1980s because of a decrease in cotton production during the years of violence. The resulting economic recession left many in debt and unable to repay loans to the banks. During these years marimberos, or marijuana sellers, also produced and contributed to the economic boom, because of the high demand in the United States.

Valledupar mainly produces cotton, rice, oil palm, tobacco, coffee, cocoa and other cash crops. Since the late 20th century, the city has benefited from the department of Cesar's development of coal mining in the region of La Jagua de Ibirico and El Paso. The secondary sector has been flourishing from a few agricultural products and derivates from cattle.

Terrorist groups are still present and affect the local economy; The FARC, ELN and former AUC, mostly financed by the illegal drug trade. Other mafia-style groups BACRIMs have flourished in the region, shifting from illegal drug production to illegal trafficking of fuel from Venezuela as well as other products. These groups contribute to the illicit drugs industry in the region. They cultivate great quantities of opium poppies and marihuana around the area.

The region is using technology in order to develop into a more modern city. In a smaller scale, other sources of the economy are: fishing, transportation, construction, industrial manufacturing, electricity and gas, commerce, hotel industry, government, real estate, education, healthcare and domestic services.

The Vallenato Legend Festival, has gained economic importance because of its impact in Valledupar's economy. The Festival has become a destination for the tourist industry, and enables the promotion of other local products. The region's contemporary arts and crafts, ecotourism and cuisine have contributed to a growing hospitality industry.

In 2006 during the Vallenato Legend Festival, the Federación Nacional de Cafeteros de Colombia agreed to promote local coffee as one of their products, under the name Cafe Festival de la Leyenda Vallenata (Vallenato Legend Festival Coffee). This effort is to promote coffee produced by the local small and medium-sized farms from the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta and the Serranía del Perijá.

Valledupar annually hosts one of the most important Cattle Fairs (Spanish: Ferias Ganaderas) in Colombia at the end of August. It is also an opportunity to feature other agricultural and domestic products.

Culture
Valledupar's cultural background comes from three different major cultures; African, European, and Amerindian. The creolization of these cultures developed into unique musical styles, such as in the vallenato and cumbia. Valledupar was established as a Spanish colonial town, where colonists tried to reimpose what they knew in terms of familiar customs, food, popular religion, music, dances and Castilian Spanish.

Many descendants from the colonial period were converted to Catholicism. At the same time, practices have absorbed aspects of Amerindian and African cultures, as Christianity is syncretic. The holy week, in April, is celebrated in much the same way as during colonial times; with fasting, church attendance and processions to venerate Jesus and the Santo Eccehomo. Corpus Christi is celebrated in July. In religious practices, Christians represent the majority of the population. There are a minority of Muslims.

Traditional oral storytelling has helped preserve stories, myths and legends, such as the popular "legend of the guatapuri mermaid", or the "silborcito" (the nazarenian without a head), "the Lerta" ("The duel between the devil and Francisco 'the man'"), "the monitos", "The llorona (the crying woman)", "la madre monte (mother nature)" "la mano pelua (the hairy hand)", and "el cuco", among other stories that are still alive. Storytellers are very common in the region, as well as traditional comedians. These storytellers, usually travelling farmers selling their cattle around the region, revived the already traditional Spanish juglares (minstrels). From village to village, they sang the news and stories from other towns, usually playing an instrument. This is how the Vallenato music was believed to be born.

Dances play a very important role in the cultural identity of this society, coming from the three different cultures that founded it, among this dances are: "Tambora La Cumaná" "El Pilon Vallenato" "chicote kankuamo" and "Los Diablos danzantes de Corpus Christi" (The Corpus Christi Dancing Devils). The latter originated in a colonial theater play, developed to represent the devil and good, in an effort to convert the Amerindians to Christianity. Valledupar also celebrates a carnival in February, smaller but similar to Barranquilla's Carnival. Carnival's celebration of pagan traditions, and quickly helped the African and Amerindian traditions to become part of society.

These two entities are part of the Colombian Ministry of Culture and their main purpose is to promote and preserve local cultural traditions, exploit cultural abilities from the region and promote an alternative to get to know different cultures.
 * Casa de la Cultura (House of Culture) and Escuela de Bellas Artes (Fine Arts School):

General collection and reference: It has one lecture room with a capacity for a hundred people, with open shelves and open access to collections for users. Children's room and workshop: independently, it also has a lecture and workshop room for children, with a collection specialized in children and youth's literature, as well as audiovisual materials and other elements to work in plastic arts. In this room, starting at 10 a.m. on Saturdays, a project of story telling goes on called "La Hora del Cuento" (the story time) and on Fridays at 4 p.m. the presentation of movies for children.
 * Libraries:
 * Public Library Rafael Carrillo Luquez and its Consuelo Araújo Noguera Library section, was inaugurated on May 8, 2002; created with the main purpose of contributing to social, educational and cultural development of the community with an initial collection of about 12,000 volumes in all areas of human knowledge. It has achieved up to date, a space for kids, youth and adults, it has given access to all users in this society to literature workshops, plastic arts, music, conferences, expositions and local writer's book presentations.
 * On-line catalog: this system helps localize information that users need and contains local bibliographical material information that it's connected to the Banco de la Republica's national libraries network.
 * Audiovisual Services: the library also has three individual cubicles for the use of audiovisual material, mostly containing cultural and scientific.
 * Shopping Center:

The city of Valledupar has two major malls; the Guatapurí Plaza, located north of the city, near the "Parque de la leyenda Vallenata". The complex was started in November 2007, with three major sections: Shopping center, which was opened in 2008, featuring more than 50 major national and international retail stores such as Nike, Levis, and more. It also includes notable restaurants like Subway, the Juan Valdez Café and a Carrefour supermarket. A Movie Theatre, opened 28 November 2008 and operated by Cinemark and a Hotel called the Sonesta Hotel that opened in 2009.

Mayales Plaza, inaugurated in 2013 is located East of the city of Valledupar.

There are three other major shopping center projects for the city, most notably MegaMall and Unicentro.

Sports
Valledupar has a football (soccer) team called Valledupar FC, which plays in the Colombian second division and the Copa Colombia tournaments. Many footballers from Valledupar play or have played in the Categoría Primera A or top divisions in other countries as well as the Colombia national football team, most notably goalkeeper Jose Maria Pazo. Notable international players include Humberto Osorio Botello, who played for Real Valladolid in the Spanish Primera División.

Martial arts (taekwondo, judo and karate), cycling, roller skating, basketball, softball, volleyball, and athletics are also practiced under the support of INDUPAL.

Valledupar native Oscar Muñoz won a bronze medal in taekwondo during the 2012 Summer Olympics in London while competing for Colombia.

Sports venues include the Armando Maestre Pavajeau Stadium (set to be remodeled), and the Coliseo Cubierto de Valledupar.

City anthem
See: Hymn of Valledupar Valledupar's anthem, named Himno de Valledupar, was established in 1984 by then Major of Valledupar, Miguel Meza Valera by public contest. The winner was Rita Fernandez Padilla, a composer from nearby Santa Marta, with music arranged by Carlos Julio Parra.

Flag
The flag has three horizontal equal stripes of different colors;
 * The top blue; symbolizes the sky and the rivers that flow through the region.
 * The center white, symbolizes the white snow peaks of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta mountain and the wished peace.
 * The bottom red symbolizes the sacrifices of the many through history who have helped develop Valledupar.

Coat of arms
The coat of arms was recently redesigned to meet new identities of Valledupar that now included the vallenato musical instruments;

 * The crown on top with three peaks symbolizes the three kings that visited Jesus and also resembles the Spanish heritage and history of Valledupar, once part of the Spanish monarchy.
 * The letters read the full name of Valledupar in Spanish; City of the holy kings of Valledupar.
 * The top left picture shows the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta mountain snowy peaks.
 * The top right pictures the three main instruments of the Vallenato music; an accordion, a caja and a guacharaca.
 * the bottom left picture shows a bull symbolizing the cattle raising and ranching.
 * The bottom right symbolizes the agriculture; with the three main produces pictured; cotton, coffee and sorghum.

Media and services

 * Newspapers: El Tiempo, El Espectador, El Heraldo, El Pilón, Vanguardia Liberal.
 * Radio broadcasters: (F.M. (5)) Olímpica Stereo, Maravilla Stereo, Rumba Stereo, Cacica Stereo, Radio Policía Nacional. (A.M. (4)) Caracol Radio, RCN Radio, Radio Guatapuri
 * TV Broadcasters: (3) Caracol TV, RCN TV and Telecaribe
 * Cable TV and Satellite TV: (4) Claro, DirecTV and Movistar
 * Internet providers : (3) Movistar, Edatel, Claro

Transportation

Valledupar has four different land entrances, and is crossed by national highway Route 80 from south to north. Route 80 is still under-construction, a segment between the village of Badillo via the village of Patillal and the town of San Juan del Cesar in the department of La Guajira. As an alternative route 80 also crosses the town of La Paz in order to drive north to the northern department of La Guajira. To the south, the route 80 highway connects with the rest of Colombia including northern regions of Colombia, like Santa Marta, Barranquilla and Cartagena; to the west two road access to some other villages to the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta.

Valledupar's land transportation terminal provides national and international services through sixteen different bus or van transportation companies. Four of whom make trips to rural areas of the municipality. In the urban area transportation services are provided by taxis, and by private and government bus companies covering the entire city by shared routes. Lately, a new form of transportation was born, informal Auto rickshaws (mototaxismo), taking illegally over the bus and taxi services, to a point that are making them go bankrupt. The local government is attempting to penalize the use of Auto rickshaw for safety reasons and are also operating illegally, but because there are so many and tend to violently protest, the issue became difficult. In 2014 the local government expects to introduce the new Massive Strategic Transportation System (Sistema Estrategico de Transporte Público, SETP) with new routes and more modern buses.

Valledupar is served by the Alfonso López Pumarejo Airport, that receives national and some charter flights.

Notable people

 * Diomedes Díaz, singer
 * Guzmán Quintero Torres, journalist
 * María Concepción Loperena (1775–1835), independence activist
 * Jaider Romero (born 1982), Colombian footballer
 * Alba Rosa, la coma

title: Valledupar


text:
Talk:Foreign relations of Norway

Untitled
"Norway is the only Scandinavian country that is not a member of the European Union. This caused some amusement in France in 2000, when it was noted that the map of Sweden and Finland without Norway on the Euro notes looked rather like male genitalia."

Removed this. It is an error in that the Euro coins and notes do depict Norway, as well as Switzerland, and the three EU members which do not use the Euro. Grunners 01:57, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

 * No it's not really an error. At the time, Norway was not included in the european map on the Euro coins, and therefore the statement above that the map on the coin looked like a male genitalia is true. HOWEVER the coins have later been changed and Norway is now included. Mortyman (talk) 23:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

This entire article is uncited garbage and needs a complete rewrite with appropriate citations in place. 08:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC) White Mage Cid

From the section "Relations With The United States": "Norway has recently increased relations with the United States, due to a moderate U.S. (and Swedish) military presence put in place there to deal with the Charlist King Sekret Service (Operation Nordic Thunder). Some upcoming issues facing prime minister Jens Stoltenberg concerning the U.S./Swedish military presence include, but are not limited to, a large airlift of rock salt into Norway by the U.S. to resupply its forces there, and how to curb the increased rash of practical jokes played upon American forces during Russ."

- This is total rubbish and I'm removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.191.4.66 (talk) 20:54, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject - Bilateral relations
There is now a upstart WikiProject to establish a concensus about WP's International bilateral relations articles, including "X-Y (country) relations" articles, at Centralized discussion/Bilateral international relations. Interested parties should add their names at WikiProject International relations/Bilateral relations task force if they wish to play a part in the discussions or have an Interest in this going forward. Thank you for your attention. CaribDigita (talk) 00:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Oil disputes
There's nothing in the article about the disputes between Britain and Norway over North Sea Oil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.66.173 (talk) 07:37, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Nor the dispute between Norway and Russia up in the Barents Sea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.240.157.124 (talk) 12:53, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

China–Norway relations: Links, or text-suggestions needed.
Is there an article about China–Norway relations?

If someone has any relevant external links or text-suggestions, then please post them here, so that someone (or myself) can edit the article (to which this discussion belongs), or write an article about China–Norway relations?

My first suggestion for text (which I have no reference for):

"Norway's representative has been summoned by China, in connection with a Norwegian organization's granting of the Nobel Prize, to a Chinese dissident, in 2010." --S(l)ick nation (talk) 15:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Any other suggestions to questions, that the "China/Norway-section" ought to answer?
--S(l)ick nation (talk) 15:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Has Norway or China, ever expelled any Chinese or Norwegian diplomats?

If I am wrong about leaving the following texts out of the article, then please make your voice heard.
--S(l)ick nation (talk) 15:26, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "A Norwegian NGO's granting of Nobel peace prize to a Chinese dissident, is expected to cost Norway "dearly", according to an editorial in Verdens Gang." (Ref: October 9, 2010 p.2: Men hvis kinesiske ledere nå går helt i vranglås, kan Nobelkommiteens modige valg i verste fall komme til å koste Norge dyrt. Det er i tilfelle verdt prisen.)

Canada: Text moved to discussion

 * "There are 433,000 people of Norwegian descent living in Canada."

There is no mention of how many Norwegian citizens live (and/or commute from Norway) in Canada. Until this information is available, then it makes little sense to mentioning unreferenced ESTIMATES regarding the ambiguous (?) term "descendants of Norwegians". --S(l)ick nation (talk) 16:22, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Congo-Norway
What about including Congo-Norway releations, because of the Moland-French crisis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.211.0.120 (talk) 13:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090904212749/http://www.fco.gov.uk/content/en/travel-advice/asia-oceana/nepal/fco_trv_ca_nepal?ta=safetySecurity&pg=2 to http://www.fco.gov.uk/content/en/travel-advice/asia-oceana/nepal/fco_trv_ca_nepal?ta=safetySecurity&pg=2
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090125192048/http://geo.international.gc.ca/cip-pic/geo/norway-en.aspx to http://geo.international.gc.ca/cip-pic/geo/norway-en.aspx

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Diplomatic relations date
A source for the dates when Norway established diplomatic relations with other countries. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 12:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Enemies
Do they have enemies? 81.108.107.94 (talk) 08:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Foreign relations of Norway