text:
Talk:Chola dynasty

Possible addition to the page?
I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Takkolam should be mentioned briefly in the page or linked at its bottom.

SlimShady32123 (talk) 16:15, 25 April 2022 (UTC)SlimShady32123

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Battle of kedah.jpg

New map replaced the old map showing the greatest extent of Chola empire. It was corrected based on primary literature cited to show actual control Chola had on Sri Lanka.
The Chola empire never had full control of the island at any point in history, and this is already discussed in a large amount of literature published on the matter, including primary literature cited on the page. Spencer, G. W. The Politics of Plunder: The Cholas in Eleventh-Century Ceylon. The Journal of Asian Studies 1976, 35 (3), 405–419. https://doi.org/10.2307/2053272.

According to Spencer, “Under Rajendra Chola I, perhaps the most aggressive king of his line, Chola raids were launched southward from Rajarattha into Rohana. By his fifth year, Rajendra claimed to have completely conquered Ceylon, a claim that has led some historians to assert that Rajendra "completed" the conquest Rajaraja had begun. But the Cholas never really consolidated their control over southern Ceylon, which in any case lacked large and prosperous settlements to tempt long-term Chola occupation. Thus, under Rajendra, Chola predatory expansion in Ceylon began to reach a point of diminishing returns”

Moreover, Spencer talks about the continuous line of Sinhalese kings during the Chola period in the Rohana kingdom. “Ironically, the Chola settlements in the north in turn became targets of attack and plunder, partly because the Sinhalese "enemy"-remnants of the royal court and some chiefs who supported it were now more dispersed and capable of organizing guerrilla resistance. Since members of the royal house of Ceylon were natural rallying-points for counterattacks, the Cholas were anxious to seize them. The Culavamsa admits that Rajendra's forces captured King Mahinda and transported him to India, where he eventually died in exile.47 But Prince Kassapa, son of Mahinda, hid in Rohana, where Chola forces vainly searched for him. Kassapa assumed the title of Vikkamabahu I and ruled" in Rohana for several years (c. I029-Io4I)48 while attempting to organize a campaign of liberation and unification””

Thus it is clear that Cholar only had an influence on the Rohana kingdom of the south of Sri Lanka, not direct control. Lipwe (talk) 03:37, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

New details:

Chola only had complete control of the Anuradhapura Kingdom, while the Principality of Ruhuna (Ruhunu Rata) was still under Sinhalese kings. States of the Principality of Malaya is not clear. The following map shows the area under each administrative unit. The corrected map only included the Principality of Ruhuna (Ruhunu Rata) as the area of influence, while the entire Principality of Malaya was put under Chola control, even though this might not be the case.

 * both maps are incorrect and have therefore been replaced with a more accurate one for several reasons
 * 1. After the capture of Mahinda V in 1017, the Sinhalese monarchs in Rohana submitted to the Cholas as subordinate or puppet rulers. Kassapa VI (Vikkamabahu) organized several liberation campaigns however his rule was still under chola influence and he has only fractional control over the reign. This is why the region is under influence since the sinhalese monarchs only had partial control and their rule was under chola subordinate/influence.
 * 2. Sinhalese control was only present in Mahanagakula (modern day Ambalantota) and the surrounding region. This was why Vijayabahu used the city as a base to send troops to Magama, Mahiyanga and Polonnaruwa ( areas he did not control). This is why the Mahanagakula in the map is labeled as influence while the rest of the island is labeled as direct control.
 * 3 besides lanka, these are many other parts of the map that are incorrect. the map shows chola influence of the entirety of angkor Dvaravati and pegan when they only had indirect control of the city of pegu and possibly southern Dvaravati. It also shows half of borneo under chola control when most of the island (except parts of the coasts under srivijaya) were undiscovered at the time.)
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20110722030542/http://www.ices.lk/publications/inscript2_kno_review.shtml
 * https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-asian-studies/article/abs/politics-of-plunder-the-cholas-in-eleventhcentury-ceylon/926938631DA4BF69B0DED43421E08658
 * https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/465385
 * https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03085696208592208 2600:8806:403:5100:D86C:A815:34A8:8C8E (talk) 22:20, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03085696208592208 2600:8806:403:5100:D86C:A815:34A8:8C8E (talk) 22:20, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Chola never controls the mountainous interior of the country, so your map is not accurate. Please cite your sources with direct quotes from relevant sections or otherwise; I will keep the previous map and make necessary changes to other parts later. Lipwe (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * After the capture of Mahinda V, the Shihalese rebels were limited to only Mahanagakula (modern-day Ambalantota)
 * Vijayabahu had to send troops to raid Magama, Mahiyanga and Polonnaruwa which were not under his control.
 * Vijayabahu I's battle plan.png
 * Source
 * Spencer 1976, p. 417.
 * you can also look at more sources about this on Chola conquest of Anuradhapura 2600:8806:403:5100:E5F1:C2C1:8403:FB1A (talk) 04:15, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Lipwe The area of Srivijaya isn't that large to begin with. They don't have control over Borneo. It seems to be somewhat influenced by Gunkarta's .gif of Srivijayan expansion made in 2014 (which does not come with reference). The File:Rajendra map new.svg of 2011 showed a small influence in Borneo but this is unconfirmed. The proper Srivijayan territory would be from the map in Munoz's Early kingdoms of the Indonesian archipelago and the Malay Peninsula. But the suzerainty of the 2 northmost territories is dubious: Lavo seems to be conjectured from its submission to Tambralinga, while Indrapura on Cambodia follows the narrative of the Zabag kingdom story that was told by Arabs. This Zabag may or may not be referring to Srivijaya. From the description of other Arabs people, Zabag may refer to Java in terms of geography. Central Java may not have an influence by Srivijaya, in Munoz's book it is conjectured from Sailendra dynasty rule, which ruled both Java and Sumatra. The Sailendras originate from Java.
 * So the Chola influence in the Nusantara archipelago would be the 3 ovals in the Malay peninsula, and the 2 ovals in Sumatra. The Munoz's map included some territory in West Java, but I don't think the Cholas had influence in any part of Java, so the Southernmost margin would be somewhere in southern Sumatra. Verosaurus (talk) 08:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 6 October 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 22:10, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Chola dynasty → Chola Empire – Enter the correct name please J.k.r0012 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 13:40, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943  (talk) 19:26, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing anything in the target article that validates this claim. Steel1943  (talk) 17:09, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Bro check this link:
 * Chola Empire - INSIGHTSIAS (insightsonindia.com)
 * This is an official link. 2406:7400:63:66FA:FC02:3036:74DA:1736 (talk) 13:36, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Pinging requester to let them know the discussion moved here. Steel1943  (talk) 19:26, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Oppose In fact there would be room for both articles, but the "Imperial Cholas" represent only part of the history. This old discussion is relevant. Johnbod (talk) 19:40, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose "Chola Dynasty" is the more common name. >>> Extorc . talk  20:19, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose The initiater haven't given any reason for the move and I don't see any. Akshaypatill (talk) 19:54, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to add about the descendants of Cholas as you could find it with evidence in google and other sites Descendant of Pandya (talk) 07:31, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Religion...
User:Tamilpadai You are in disagreement with multiple editors. Discuss your concerns here first instead of reverting again and again. Akshaypatill (talk) 06:13, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 * He has already violated the WP:3RR by carrying out 4 reverts. >>> Extorc . talk  06:46, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Tamilpadai @Akshaypatill I'll introduce some sources here that clearly point out that Shaivism is a sect/faction/tradition of Hinduism.
 * Peter Bisschop 2011 -
 * Constance A. Jones, James D. Ryan 2006 - - which encompasses by far the large majority of Hindus clearly means that Shaivites are a subset of Hindus.
 * >>> Extorc . talk  07:11, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Not needed really. We already have a Wiki page for that- Shaivism. "Shaivism (/ˈʃaɪvɪzəm/; Sanskrit: शैवसम्प्रदायः, Śaivasampradāyaḥ) is one of the major Hindu traditions that worships Shiva, which also includes Vaishnavism, Shaktism, and Smartism as the Supreme Being." Akshaypatill (talk) 07:14, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I know really. Just setting the ground with the most basic undisagreeable information. >>> Extorc . talk  07:17, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Tamilpadai (talk) 10:41, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Tamilpadai The argument that you are presenting is analogous to saying that Sunni Islam is not a part of Islam and should be called the Sunni religion. None of the sources presented by you talk about Hinduism and Shaivism together in the same context. Even if some sources call Shaivism a religion, that doesn't mean that it isn't a part of Hinduism. >>> Extorc . talk  11:03, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter. And Hinduism as a term did not exist until Persians and The British came to the Indian Sub Continent. What we need to look at is What was the religion of Cholas? For that i have provided enough evidence that Shaivisim was a separate religion during their time and it was their state religion.
 * Hinduism was never a term back them.
 * You are confusing with Modern day Hinduism with the then separate religion Shaivism and Vaishnavism. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:10, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Moden day Indians and Hindutuva followers - Kindly keep the discussion within the scope of Chola's avoiding WP:POV. >>> Extorc . talk  11:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

That's all we need to consider.
 * The question is what was the Cholas religion?
 * The answer is Shaivism.
 * Why not Hinduism?
 * Because Hinduism as a collective form (under one umbrella) did not exist in Chola Land during their rule. Here we are talking about the Cholas official religion and not Nepal's or India's. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:02, 9 October 2022 (UTC) sock
 * Im sorry but any effort made by you cannot deny the fact that Shaivism by definition is a sect/faction/tradition of..... of? HINDUISM.
 * Just because most practitioners of Buddhism in Sri Lanka are Theravada Buddhists, we cant let you invent a new religion called Theravada religion. >>> Extorc . talk  11:10, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, Shivaism a sect of Hinduism is only during the modern Times. During Chola rule or even after their rule in 1279 and up until Nayakkar rules it was two separate religions.
 * "The Telugu Nayakars in particular were patrons of Vaishnava religion"
 * This indicates Vaishnava was a separate religion in itself ever after the Chola rule which ended in 1279.
 * https://www.google.com/books/edition/Caste_Class_and_Power/5Sk1jX1p0ZAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=chola+religion&pg=PA13&printsec=frontcover
 * We are only looking at what is the religion of The cholas? And if it Shivaism, then was Shivaism a separate religion or a sect? It was a separate religion as indicated by many references. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:17, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Just because cholas were following it, doesnt mean it becomes a religion. I repeat, Even though you aren't showing any intent on acknowledging what I'm saying., that Shaivism by definition is a sect/faction/tradition of Hinduism. It is not a religion. >>> Extorc . talk  11:19, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * None of the sources that you have provided vouch for your argument that Shaivism and Hinduism were different in the past but I have provided you sources which say that Shaivism and Hinduism are intertwined. Unless you can provide multiple sources which can establish that, we cannot reach anywhere except towards my argument. >>> Extorc . talk  11:31, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Nope. Your argument is not constructive. The Cholas were following it as a religion as indicated by the refs.
 * "They actively patronized Saivism and the arts inspired by this religion."
 * https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Journal_of_the_Music_Academy_Madras/dwgFAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=chola+religion&dq=chola+religion&printsec=frontcover
 * "The cholas were however consistently staunch Saivites. But while following Saivism as their parental religion and building and providing for Siva shrines they were not hostile to other religion."
 * https://www.google.com/books/edition/History_of_Tamilnad/bU1uAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=chola+religion&dq=chola+religion&printsec=frontcover
 * "But the classical age of Tamil culture belongs to the period of Cholas, who ruled from AD 850 to 1279. Shaivism received official patronage."
 * https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mother_India/1s7WAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Saiva%20religion
 * "The court religion being Saivism, it was, of course in evidence everywhere."
 * I repeat, Shivaism was a separate religion back then. There was no Hinduism (a religion where Shivaism and Vaishnavism considered as one.)
 * Well, all the sources i have provided calls Shivaism as a separate religion. That's we need and the Hinduism you call today did even exist. It was separate religion. As i told you, in modern times Shivaism is considered a sect but back then it was a separate religion.
 * This article is about The Chola Dynasty and not the Republic of India. The modern day Hinduism did not exist back then. Period. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:35, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Typo: *the Hinduism you call today didn't even exist. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC) sock
 * Tamilpadai All you need to read is Shaivism. What you are doing is trying to change the definition of that page. And in this case we would need sources that shows that Shaivism and Hinduism are seperate faiths and doesn't share the relation that the current Shaivism page iterates. Akshaypatill (talk) 11:42, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That's irrelevant here. We are talking about the Chola dynasty and their religion. What all were the religions that existed during their time and what was the one they followed. Period.
 * It was not the current republic of India back then. It was a separate country under the Chola rule emperors. You are talking from Modern day perspective of Hinduism but I ask you see from Chola era perspective. It's not that complicated. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * How can the definition of Shaivism itself be irrelevant. It is completely if not more relevant than anything else here. >>> Extorc . talk  11:55, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Everything about Shaivism is modern day Hinduism perspective. But during chola era it was not the case. Both Shivaism and Vaishnavism was a separate religion and there was no Hinduism. Tamilpadai (talk) 11:51, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Kindly provide sources to support Both Shivaism and Vaishnavism was a separate religion and there was no Hinduism. >>> Extorc . talk  11:53, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * When did I add Modern Day Hinduism as a religion to the page. We are talking about Hinduism, of which Shaivism is a sect. Any other definition of Shaivism doesn't comply with RS. >>> Extorc . talk  11:52, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Contrary to User:Tamilpilai's claim, here is what our article on Hinduism says- "Hinduism has been called the oldest religion in the world." Why is this so, if it didn't exist back then? Akshaypatill (talk) 12:01, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

The Persians called it sindhs and britishers called Hindus. Over time the Shivaism religion and Vaishnavaism religion all has become come under one religion which is what we call as Hinduism. Shivaism and Vaishnavism are older religions by itself. In fact Shivaism is pre-vedic religion. Since in the modern day Hinduism now includes Shivaism and Vaishnisvis togather then Hinduism can be called one of the oldest religion in the world because Shaivism (an old religion) is now considered under Hinduism. Tamilpadai (talk) 12:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Modern scholars call Shaivism a major Hindu traditions and not a seperate religion and that's how we should call it here too. You can write all this in the body, but that too will be irrelevent as this isn't a page about Shaivism or Hinduism. Here is list of religions in India - [] and it does not list Shaivism as a seperate religion. So your arguments are not valid. Akshaypatill (talk) 12:38, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * No, modern scholars call it so in the Modern perspective and not what it was during the Chola era. We should call how it was during Chola era as this is a page about the Cholas. As i said Shivaism is not a separate religion now but it was back then it was separate.
 * So for example, let's assume Burma, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh all become part of India in future and over time all their respective religions and long with India's were unified and called under a new name. So when you write an article about the past Sri Lanka or past Pakistan do your say their religion in the new religious name (a new umbrella term for Buddhism, Islam and Hinduism) or do you state the Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka was once a buddhist country? Tamilpadai (talk) 12:50, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * My arguments are valid. Your logic is not valid when you compare and talk only in the perspective of current form of Hinduism and not Chola Era Shaivam and Vaishnavism. This page is about them and what it was back then. Simple. Tamilpadai (talk) 12:55, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * My arguments are valid. Your logic is not valid when you compare and talk only in the perspective of current form of Hinduism and not Chola Era Shaivam and Vaishnavism. This page is about them and what it was back then. Simple. Tamilpadai (talk) 12:55, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Carefully read- Indian religions. I would like to see sources that tells that Shaivism was seperate religion back then and wasn't part of Hinduism. Check [] Akshaypatill (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This clearly shows that Hinduism predates Shaivism, which was mere monotheistic sect of Hinduism like the others. Unless you point to the sources proving otherwise, 'Hinduism" remains as the religion of Cholas in the article. Akshaypatill (talk) 13:29, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

.edit request on 9 October 2022
The cholas belonged to Saivism as a religion. Hinduism did not exist when the latter Cholas ruled which is about 1000 years ago. The word Hindu was brought into by the British about 300 years ago. Hence please correct the religion to Saivism. 49.204.143.168 (talk) 11:28, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. >>> Extorc . talk  11:32, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:52, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Ship compartments.jpg

Rule area
Small suggestion, Cholas never ruled north India. So where ever the reference of north India is made it should be changed to Eastern Ghats OR South East India. Gmishra75 (talk) 17:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Where does it say they did rule north India? Johnbod (talk) 04:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Maps

 * File:Rajendra map new.svg has existed, with modifications, since 2011.
 * File:Chola Empire map.svg was created in 27 August 2019 and added to the article on 17 August 2022
 * File:Chola Empire map corrected-01.svg was created on 27 August 2022 to replace (2) because of clear errors.

1. is sourced to "THE CŌḶAS" by K. A. Nilakanta Sastri (1933). 2. claims as its only source File:Rajendra map new.svg, despite substantially changing it. 3. claims to be sourced to Spencer, G. (1976). The Politics of Plunder: The Cholas in Eleventh-Century Ceylon. The Journal of Asian Studies, 35(3), 405-419. doi:10.2307/2053272 (an article which contains only a map of Sri Lanka).

2. and 3. make extraordinary vast claims for the area of influence of the Chola empire, stretching far inland in Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, and Borneo, which have been challenged by User:Surijeal and User:User23445. User:Lipwe has repeatedly reverted these challenges without providing sources for this claimed area of influence, and despite having already shown that 2. made inaccurately expansive claims for Chola control in one area (Sri Lanka), where 1. was already correct (although I accept that the modifications to the map of Sri Lanka in 3 are more accurate). Furius (talk) 21:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

 * @Furius I think we have some misunderstanding. I have no issues with edits on southeast Asia. My concern primarily is focused on the extent of claims in Sri Lanka, and I was a bit blind to all the other issues with areas outside my concerns. I will combine information from all the make a new map and replaces what is there. Until that, I will not replace the map.Lipwe (talk) 22:01, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

 * The new map file uploaded to overwrite File:Rajendra map new.svg is broken, the text isn't showing. Surijeal (talk) 20:46, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Thank you @Surijeal! I will attend to this issue soon. Sorry I have a deadline to apply for some fellowship on December 01st. I would not be able to do any editing until that. You can replace the map with a better alternative, and I will see what has to be done when I get time.Lipwe (talk) 08:37, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

 * @Lipwe @Surijeal The area of Srivijaya isn't that large. The proper Srivijayan territory would be from the map in Munoz's Early kingdoms of the Indonesian archipelago and the Malay Peninsula. But the suzerainty of the 2 northmost territories is dubious: Lavo seems to be conjectured from its submission to Tambralinga, while Indrapura on Cambodia follows the narrative of the Zabag kingdom story that was told by Arabs. This Zabag may or may not be referring to Srivijaya. From the description of other Arabs people, Zabag may refer to Java in terms of geography. Central Java may not have an influence by Srivijaya, in Munoz's book it is conjectured from Sailendra dynasty rule.
 * The Chola influence in the Nusantara archipelago would include the 3 ovals in the Malay peninsula, and the 2 ovals in Sumatra. The Munoz's map included some territory in West Java, but I don't think the Cholas had influence in any part of Java, so the Southernmost margin would be somewhere in southern Sumatra. Verosaurus (talk) 08:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Thank you @Verosaurus! I will attend to this issue soon. Sorry, I have a deadline to apply for some fellowships on December 01st., 2022. I would not be able to do any editing until that.Lipwe (talk) 08:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

 * The Chola-Rohana border you drew on File:Rajendra map new.svg and File:Chola Empire map corrected-01.svg is different. Which one is more accurate? @Lipwe. Surijeal (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Surijeal
 * the borders in Sri Lanka need to be fixed.
 * as I mentioned in the above task section
 * After the capture of Mahinda V, the Sinhalese rebels were limited to only Mahanagakula (modern-day Ambalantota)
 * so the only area pink area of the map should be Ambalantota rest of the island should be blue as it was under Chola control 2600:8806:403:5100:C455:F3BA:C46E:FE42 (talk) 22:53, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with the division of areas in Sri Lanka. Also, I can't verify how much of the area should be corrected. Maybe @Lipwe can help, since if I edited it and it is still wrong, no one knows how many edits until the map is correct. Surijeal (talk) 12:40, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 January 2023
1.38.104.185 (talk) 07:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Members. Do you check with this page and page of Early Cholas. Probable user from North India simply undo the updated page.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lemonaka (talk) 07:34, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2023
In official languages REMOVE sanskrit. Dont play. Warning will not be repeated!!!!!! 84.57.124.254 (talk) 17:20, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:25, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * He says remove Sanskrit in the Chola Wiki page as it is incorrect. There is no proof of anything but Tamil used in Chola empire.   Debtprograms (talk) 13:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Where is your reliable source that says the Sanskrit or any other language was used in Chola empire? You are not showing any proof or evidence about a foreign language used in Chola court. Debtprograms (talk) 14:00, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Why Are We Including Sanskrit In Chola Dynasty?
Hi Guys - There is no evidence of Sanskrit or Prakrit or any other language used for official purposes. The language used for worship was Tamil. Why are you inserting Sanskrit into the Cholas? There is no source that attests that Sanskrit was ever used. No inscriptions during that time. This is irresponsible Wiki article to USURP other cultures under Sanskrit. It is an insult to the Tamil Empire. Please stop changing history. Show reliable proof and we can discuss it. Debtprograms (talk) 13:55, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

 * This article used to be correct back in the days, but some Sanskrit USURPER has changed it recently. I have changed it back to the accurate description, but it keep getting changed back.  Many users have complained about the inaccurate details.  If this continues, then the Wiki users will have no choice but to start a new article on the Chola Empire, not Chola Dynasty.   Debtprograms (talk) 13:58, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 12 June 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. This discussion has petered out without any consensus (whether rough or firm). The article does not currently focused only on the "dynasty" (lineage of rulers) or "empire" (imperial period) but rather the wider Chola state/society over time. For now, the introduction can be updated to reflect the current scope of the article. If there is need for other solutions, a new move discussion or split/merger discussion can be suggested. (non-admin closure) SilverLocust (talk) 03:27, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Chola dynasty → Chola Empire – This page is about the Political entity of the Cholas which is most definitely called the Chola Empire and not only about the lineage of the Cholas. Looking at other stably named Dyasnty-Empire page pairs, like the Mughal, Timurid, Ottoman, the empire page talks about origin, territory, administration, government, law, demographics while the dynasty page talks about family tree, succession, current heads and pretenders. Looking at this article, this mostly fits in the Empire category. >>> Extorc . talk  14:31, 12 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:06, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

 * According to Google ngram, it seems like "Chola dynasty" is the WP:COMMONNAME, although it's close. What do the authoritative works on this subject use? SilverStar54 (talk) 17:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking at ngrams here is useless @SilverStar54 because this is not a WP:COMMONNAME debate. I am saying this is specifically an article on the empire and NOT the dynasty. Wikipedia has different articles for those two and this article pertains to the political entity which is an empire. >>> Extorc . talk  04:30, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I misread your initial post. In that case I support. SilverStar54 (talk) 16:56, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Oppose The article covers "300s BCE - 1279 CE", over 1500 years. But the Imperial Cholas, as they are often called, only ruled for 222 years (848-1070). The Later Cholas might be said to have ruled an empire, for about 50 years. The two together as still less than a fifth of the total period, for most of which the Chola territories could not really be called imperial. I'd support moving Medieval Cholas to Imperial Cholas though. Johnbod (talk) 03:20, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking at the content of this page, around 61 out of the 111kb content is dedicated to the Imperial era. This includes the Imperial Cholas section and the Administration and Society section and decline as I pointed out in my Original request. So more than half of the page is directly dedicated to the Empire. Also look at the lead, it says "The Chola dynasty was a Tamil Thalassocratic empire", a what? Empire? The lead and the entire content of this article is adjusted for an empire. If you take issue with the content related to the early and later cholas, why not Split the article into dynasty and empire. @Johnbod As I pointed out, Mughal Empire is paired with Mughal Dynasty, Ottoman Empire is paired with Ottoman Dynasty, Timurid Empire with Timurid dynasty and so on. >>> Extorc . talk  08:47, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If this is a dynasty page, more than half of its content shouldn't be included here. >>> Extorc . talk  08:50, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That doesn't follow. I could say "if this is an empire page, over half the content doesn't belong here"! Johnbod (talk) 17:41, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No sir, that is not how complementary percentages work. If this is an empire page, that would only make about 39% of the content about the dynasty and that would be overlooking the fact that the Dynasty is a subtopic of the Empire and not the other way around because Dynasty can change in an empire, see Delhi Sultanate. >>> Extorc . talk  17:47, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * For most of the period covered the dynasty is a not subtopic of the Empire, as that didn't yet exist. Johnbod (talk) 02:32, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note : This move request was closed by me as Moved, per arguments regarding consistency with existing articles on Empires and Dynasty. However, per a request at my talk page I have reopened the discussion. I am attaching the discussion here. This was a premature close, and there was only a single support other than the nom (and he had begun by opposing). Can I ask you to revert it? The debate was not even advertised to the India project. This is an important article, and arguably not suitable for a non-admin close. Johnbod (talk) 15:37, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I wouldnt characterize it as premature, given that no one had made a comment in four days, and the editor who changed his vote and was persuaded to agree would, in my mind, only make the argument for the close stronger. However, I have no objections to letting someone more experienced close this, so I am reopening the discussion. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 17:55, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Per user request, I am relisting and notifying the India project. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:03, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject India has been notified of this discussion. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:05, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Support per Extorc.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:14, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Given the existence of "Imperial Cholas", "Chola empire" is confusing. Additionally, the early Cholas weren't an empire. Why not just move it to Cholas? This is the main term actually used in the article text and it would match the sub-pages: Early Cholas, Medieval Cholas, and Later Cholas. Furius (talk) 20:23, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Would you like to address the lead which says "The Chola Empire was a Tamil Thalassocratic empire..." or "During the period of 1010–1153 CE, the Chola territories stretched...." which is literally talking about the empire. Most of this article talks about the empire. If you think Imperial cholas can be confused, do you think we should shift the content about the empire from this page to Imperial Cholas and name that to the Chola Empire? >>> Extorc . talk  20:33, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If the article stays as it is, the lead should be rewritten to reflect the fact that for the first 1000+ years of the 1500 year period covered, the Cholas had one of several decent-sized South Indian kingdoms, but nothing sources call an empire (and for a period they had nothing). Some content perhaps should go to Imperial Cholas. Renaming it to Cholas might be a good solution - that already redirects here. Johnbod (talk) 02:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * 'Strong Oppose move to Cholas because Chola what? You are unnecessarily making it confusing. This page clearly talks about the Empire. Otherwise half the content is not justified on this page and should be moved to Imperial Cholas and that should be renamed to Chola Empire. As it stands today, we have 2 pages talking about the same topic. >>> Extorc . talk  09:10, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see how this makes it confusing at all. The article refers to "the Cholas" frequently throughout and, as already stated, the sub-articles use this term without causing any confusion. On the contrary, "Chola empire" is confusing, because the state wasn't an empire for a large part of its history. Furius (talk) 15:57, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Johnbod, let me summarize my argument. On Wikipedia, there are pairs of political entities, Empire/Dynasty. Here Imperial Cholas already exists but most of that pages contents are here which is a dynasty page. So we should either move that content to Imperial Cholas and rename that to Chola Empire or rename this as Chola Empire. >>> Extorc . talk  09:17, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * To say "On Wikipedia, there are pairs of political entities, Empire/Dynasty", like there was some policy or convention covering this, is just not true. There are all sorts of ways we cover such matters, decided by editors locally. You say that most of the content relating to the Imperial Cholas is covered here, but one of the problems with this article is that much of the material does not make it clear which parts of the 1500+ year period it relates to. Without consulting all the sources we would not know what to move. Otherwise moving content to Medieval Cholas (the actual name of the page - I wouldn't mind a rename) would be a better route forward than the proposal here. Johnbod (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Splitting of the Article
This article talks about the Early Cholas, Medieval Cholas, and the Later Cholas. However by looking at the sources in the article, I couldn't find any direct link between the two. The early cholas and the medieval/later cholas were 2 different kingdoms/empires that existed in different eras. Combining them into the same article makes it seam as if they were a continuous kingdom, which clearly is not true. I suggest renaming this article to "Chola Empire" and only talking about the mideval and later rulers starting from Vijayalaya Chola I also suggest improving the Early Cholas article prehaps renaming it to "Chola Kingdom" and making it resemble an article for a kingdom by adding an infobox and moving all content related to the early cholas there. We could also create a master article named "house of Cholas" or "Chola Dynasty" and talking more about the dynasty itself there. This would make it more clear and accurate to the reader SKAG123 (talk) 23:09, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Thanks for this. The section Chola_dynasty cites a number of sources that treat the Cholas as maintaining a tenuous existence from the early to the Medieval periods - i.e. they're the same kingdom. Renaming the article has just been discussed and deadlocked (see previous section). Any new proposal will need to deal with the arguments in the previous discussion. Furius (talk) 22:54, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Tank you @Furius
 * However I could not find any sources that state a continuous connection between the two. The early and medieval cholas may have been related, however there is little evidence to suggest that Vijayalaya is the direct descendent of Karikala and Ellalan.
 * Spiliting the article into “Chola Kingdom”(early cholas) and “Chola Dynesty” (mideval and later cholas) and creating a separate article called “House of chola” for the dynesty itself would make this more clear to the reader.
 * other articles follow this format. For example Roman Kingdom, Roman empire and Kingdom of England, Kingdom of Great Britain SKAG123 (talk) 17:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Furius. What did "I could not find any sources" actually involve? Clearly there is not going to be very extensive or conclusive evidence about direct descent over a long period more than a thousand years ago. What is probably important is that the Cholas were apparently able to pursuade their contemporaries that their descent was real. But rewriting here to make the "Chola gap" clearer would be good.  We already have an article on the Chola Empire so "renaming this article to "Chola Empire" and only talking about the mideval and later rulers starting from Vijayalaya Chola" or your second suggestion, would just be a WP:FORK.  Johnbod (talk) 18:26, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Lead
Have noticed attempts to insert "Tamilakam" in the lead sentence, a term which is not meaningful to the average reader and is not found in the majority of WP:TERTIARY sources.

Den Store Danske, Britannica, Great Catalan Encyclopedia, Great Russian Encyclopedia, Treccani, The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia. Most of these use south/southern/south-eastern India as a descriptive and nowhere is Tamilakam to be found here. The lead should not diverge from what the majority of sources follow.

Do note that we already mention in the para below the "three crowned kings" part along with Tamilakam and that should suffice (though the Tamilakam article is perhaps in need of renaming to a more descriptive term).

We follow sources and not what one thinks is right and the sources clearly stand against your attempts at WP:LEADFIXing. Gotitbro (talk) 14:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't think there exist a region or country called India when Chola dynasty exist. The entire region of southern India remained as a Tamilakam as mentioned in Sangam literature. Guess word Tamilakam apt better than the word Southern India for the Chola dynasty. Jeromenada (talk) 19:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

 * The majority of independent encyclopedic sources, as listed above, do not agree with you. We cannot use terms which find no currency in the mainstream referential literature, right there in the lead sentence. Gotitbro (talk) 19:57, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not greatly convinced by this. The term is used by National Geographic, in the "Southern Indian kingdoms" section of Britannica's article on "India", in Thapar Early India (2004), and in Parashar-Sen, Subordinate and Marginal Groups in Early India (2007), generally in the context of introducing the Cholas, Pandyas, and Cheras as a trio. The term is more specific than "south/southern/south-eastern India." I don't see a problem with the term being meaningful to the average reader, as it is linked. Furius (talk) 20:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with this, but it needs to be both linked and explained (as Jeromenada did). Outside India it is not very well known, but inside it has contemporary political resonances. Johnbod (talk) 03:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * We already use the term in the same lead para that follows (for the the three dynasties/kings). This is the same as the sources listed by you, these use it in a contextual framework (while already detailing southern, early India etc) and not as a standalone descriptive. Most general reference works don't use the term and definitely not right there in the lead sentence. Those which do employ it, use it in the sense of the three dynasties; edit-warring/contentious editing has dubiously introduced four in different articles which was the case here as well, which is also better kept off the lead sentence. Gotitbro (talk) 03:21, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Related move discussion
An editor has requested that Medieval Cholas be moved to, which currently redirects to this page. You  are invited to participate in the move discussion. SilverLocust 💬 23:47, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Moving detail
Since this Article is about the Dynasty as a Whole, I am planning on moving detailed information about the Imperial Cholas to Chola Empire, and replacing it with a more brief summery. SKAG123 (talk) 02:23, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

 * I support this, as being in accord with Summary style Furius (talk) 22:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Furius I am also thinking about replacing the Empire infobox with a Dynasty infobox, since this article is about a dynasty SKAG123 (talk) 01:36, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * What effects would that change have? Is there specific data that would no longer display? Furius (talk) 06:16, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I am thinking about changing this article's infobox to one that resembles this. It would better match the format since this article is about a dynasty rather than a kingdom or empire. It would also allow the rather to distinguish this article from Chola Empire. SKAG123 (talk) 21:31, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We have almost none of the data for that style of infobox. Furius (talk) 21:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We have some of the data, at least the important aspects Such as Empire ruled Estate/Capital, last ruler, year ended, titles used by rulers. This type of infobox is a standard for dynasty related pages so it would match the Manuel of style. It would also allow readers to distinguish this page from Chola Empire. SKAG123 (talk) 19:40, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi SKAG123, I request you to change the map of Chola Empire in Sri Lanka region. Entire Sri Lanka is part of Chola Empire. Source: Spencer, G. W. The Politics of Plunder: The Cholas in Eleventh-Century Ceylon. The Journal of Asian Studies 1976, 35 (3), 405–419. https://doi.org/10.2307/2053272 According to Spencer, “Under Rajendra Chola I, perhaps the most aggressive king of his line, Chola raids were launched southward from Rajarattha into Rohana. By his fifth year, Rajendra claimed to have completely conquered Ceylon, a claim that has led some historians to assert that Rajendra "completed" the conquest Rajaraja had begun. But the Cholas never really consolidated their control over southern Ceylon, which in any case lacked large and prosperous settlements to tempt long-term Chola occupation". If you read that you can understand that Cholas never Consolidated(Strengthen) their control over South Ceylon which means they had control. I am not sure about South East Asia Region,but sure about Sri Lanka that was part of Chola empire.So change the map now. Ranithraj (talk) 15:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Early Cholas which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:02, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 January 2024
Chola claim descendant from Suryavanshi Aley star (talk) 12:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 16:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chola dynasty


text:
Nolan Baumgartner

Nolan Baumgartner (born March 23, 1976) is a Canadian professional ice hockey coach and former player. He is currently an assistant coach for the Ottawa Senators of the National Hockey League (NHL). He was formerly an assistant coach with the Vancouver Canucks of the NHL. Baumgartner was selected by the Washington Capitals in the 1st round (10th overall) of the 1994 NHL Entry Draft. He played parts of ten seasons in the National Hockey League (NHL) for six different teams between 1995 and 2010. Baumgartner played only one full season in the NHL, 2005–06 with the Vancouver Canucks, and spent most of his playing career in the AHL.

Playing career
Coming off a 1994 Memorial Cup championship with the Kamloops Blazers of the WHL, Baumgartner was chosen by the Washington Capitals in the first round, 10th overall of the 1994 NHL Entry Draft. Upon being drafted, he returned to the WHL and joined future NHLers Darcy Tucker, Shane Doan and Jarome Iginla to capture a second consecutive Memorial Cup in 1995. Baumgartner was named to the Memorial Cup All-Star Team for the second consecutive year. En route to the CHL championship, Baumgartner was distinguished with the airBC Trophy as the WHL playoffs MVP after scoring 17 points in 21 games and at the season's end, he was also awarded the Bill Hunter Trophy as the league's best defenceman.

Baumgartner's NHL career got off to an uneven start due to a serious shoulder injury. After playing the majority of his tenure in Washington with the Capitals' American Hockey League affiliate, the Portland Pirates, he was traded to the Chicago Blackhawks on July 20, 2000, for Rémi Royer. Baumgartner would continue to play in the AHL with Chicago's minor league affiliate, the Norfolk Admirals.

On July 11, 2002, he was signed as a free agent by the Vancouver Canucks. After one season with the Canucks, he was left unprotected for the 2003 NHL Waiver Draft and selected by the Pittsburgh Penguins on October 3, 2003. However, after just five games with the Penguins, he was placed on waivers again and reclaimed by Vancouver on November 1. Playing with the Canucks' AHL affiliate, Baumgartner captained the Manitoba Moose in the season of 2003–04 and scored, 27 points. As the Moose began play at the newly opened MTS Center in 2004–05, Baumgartner earned the distinction of scoring the first ever professional goal at the arena, on November 17, 2004. When NHL play resumed the following season, Baumgartner cracked the Canucks regular lineup and set NHL career highs in every statistical category, as well as leading all team defencemen with 34 points.

Following Baumgartner's breakout season, he became an unrestricted free agent, and on July 1, 2006, he signed a two-year deal with the Philadelphia Flyers. However, after six games, he was waived on October 17, 2006, and assigned to the Philadelphia Phantoms of the AHL a week later. Baumgartner was claimed on re-entry waivers by the Dallas Stars on February 24, 2007, and after spending the 2007–08 season with Dallas's AHL affiliate, the Iowa Stars, Baumgartner was reassigned by Dallas to the Manitoba Moose.

On July 2, 2008, he returned for a third stint with the Canucks, signing a one-year, two-way contract. He continued to play in the AHL for the Moose in 2008–09 and recorded 33 points in 72 games. He helped the Moose to the 2009 Calder Cup Finals, where they were defeated by the Hershey Bears. The following season, Baumgartner was named captain of the Canadian team for the 2010 AHL All-Star Game. He was called up by the Canucks on January 22, 2010, to replace injured defenceman Sami Salo.

On October 20, 2010, Baumgartner was named captain of the Manitoba Moose. This was Baumgartner's second stint as Moose captain, when he held this position during the 2005-06 AHL season.

Baumgarter retired from hockey at the end of the 2011–12 season with the Chicago Wolves and was named an assistant coach of the team.

International play
Baumgartner represented Team Canada twice in the World Junior Championships (1995, 1996), captaining the team in 1996 and capturing gold both years

Coaching career
On July 6, 2012 the Vancouver Canucks announced that Baumgartner would be an assistant coach with their AHL affiliate in Chicago. On June 14, 2013 The Vancouver Canucks relocated their AHL team to Utica, New York. Baumgartner was subsequently hired to be an assistant coach with the new Utica Comets. On June 7, 2017, Baumgartner was named as an assistant coach of the Vancouver Canucks. Baumgartner was relieved of his duties by the Canucks on December 5, 2021 alongside head coach Travis Green

Baumgartner was hired on June 4, 2024 as an assistant coach with the Ottawa Senators.

Awards

Major Junior
 * Memorial Cup championship (Kamloops Blazers) - 1994, 1995
 * Memorial Cup All-Star Team - 1994, 1995
 * airBC Trophy (WHL playoff MVP) - 1995
 * Bill Hunter Trophy (WHL's best defenceman) - 1995, 1996
 * CHL Defenceman of the Year - 1995
 * WHL West First All-Star Team - 1995, 1996

AHL
 * AHL All-Star Game appearance - 2005, 2007*, 2010**

*starter, **captain of Canadian All-Stars

International
 * World Junior gold (Team Canada) - 1995, 1996
 * World Junior All-Star Team - 1996

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Nolan Baumgartner


text:
Lateral lemniscus

The lateral lemniscus is a tract of axons in the brainstem that carries information about sound from the cochlear nucleus to various brainstem nuclei and ultimately the contralateral inferior colliculus of the midbrain. Three distinct, primarily inhibitory, cellular groups are located interspersed within these fibers, and are thus named the nuclei of the lateral lemniscus.

Connections
There are three small nuclei on each of the lateral lemnisci:
 * the intermediate nucleus of the lateral lemniscus (INLL)
 * the ventral nucleus of the lateral lemniscus (VNLL)
 * the dorsal nucleus of the lateral lemniscus (DNLL)

Fibers leaving these brainstem nuclei ascending to the inferior colliculus rejoin the lateral lemniscus. In that sense, this is not a 'lemniscus' in the true sense of the word (second order, decussated sensory axons), as there is third (and out of the lateral superior olive, fourth) order information coming out of some of these brainstem nuclei.

The lateral lemniscus is located where the cochlear nuclei and the pontine reticular formation (PRF) crossover. The PRF descends the reticulospinal tract where it innervates motor neurons and spinal interneurons. It is the main auditory tract in the brainstem that connects the superior olivary complex (SOC) with the inferior colliculus (IC). The dorsal cochlear nucleus (DCN) has input from the LL and output to the contralateral LL via the ipsilateral and contralateral Dorsal Acoustic Stria.

The two lemnisci communicate via the commissural fibers of Probst.

Nuclei of the lateral lemniscus
The function of the complex of Nuclei of the lateral lemniscus is not known; however it has good temporal resolution compared to other cells higher than the cochlear nuclei and is sensitive to both timing and amplitude changes in sound. It is also involved in the acoustic startle reflex; the most likely region for this being the VNLL.

DNLL
The cells of the DNLL respond best to bilateral inputs, and have onset and complexity tuned sustained responses. The nucleus is primarily GABAergic, and projects bilaterally to the inferior colliculus, and contralaterally to the DNLL, with different populations of cells projecting to each IC.

In rat, the DNLL has a prominent columnar organization. Nearly all neurons are stained for GABA, especially in the central part of the nucleus, and the remaining GABA negative cells are interspersed with the positive, and often stain for glycine. Two populations of GABA+ cells are visible: larger, lightly stained cells that project to the contralateral IC, and smaller, darker stained cells that project ipsilaterally. GABAergic axon terminals form dense groups surrounded by GABA-lemniscal fibers throughout the nucleus, and synapse on both somata and in the neuropil. Glycinergic axon terminals, on the other hand, are more finely localized, with the majority of recipient neurons located laterally in the nucleus.

INLL
INLL also has little spontaneous activity and broad tuning curves. The temporal responses are significantly different from cells of the VNLL.

This structure is greatly hypertrophied in the rat, forming a prominent bulge on the surface of the brainstem. GAD, GABA, and Glycine staining reveals several distinct regions that are not evident in standard cytoarchitectural preparations. A modest number of GABA-stained neurons are arranged in small groups, generally in the center of the nucleus, whereas glycine-stained neurons are more common and widely dispersed, with regional concentrations in the dorsolateral and ventrolateral portions of the nucleus. Most GABA+ cells are gly+ as well. [broken footnote]

VNLL
Sound in the contralateral ear leads to the strongest responses in the VNLL, which deals with some temporary processing. The VNLL may also be essential to the IC’s decoding of amplitude modulated sounds.

VNLL cells have little spontaneous activity, broad and moderately complex tuning curves; they have both phasic and tonic responses and are involved in temporal processing.

In rat, the VNLL is composed of two subdivisions, the ventral (columnar) and dorsal (non columnar) regions. The columnar region contains many glycine-positive (0 GABA+) neurons, whereas the dorsal region contains clusters of GABA+ neurons intermingled with gly+ cells, with some cells containing both.

Inputs and outputs to nuclei
The table below shows that each of the nuclei have a complicated arrangement of ipsilateral and contralateral afferent inputs and outputs:

title: Lateral lemniscus


text:
Prochlorococcus

Prochlorococcus is a genus of very small (0.6 μm) marine cyanobacteria with an unusual pigmentation (chlorophyll a2 and b2). These bacteria belong to the photosynthetic picoplankton and are probably the most abundant photosynthetic organism on Earth. Prochlorococcus microbes are among the major primary producers in the ocean, responsible for a large percentage of the photosynthetic production of oxygen. Prochlorococcus strains, called ecotypes, have physiological differences enabling them to exploit different ecological niches. Analysis of the genome sequences of Prochlorococcus strains show that 1,273 genes are common to all strains, and the average genome size is about 2,000 genes. In contrast, eukaryotic algae have over 10,000 genes.

Discovery
Although there had been several earlier records of very small chlorophyll-b-containing cyanobacteria in the ocean, Prochlorococcus was discovered in 1986 by Sallie W. (Penny) Chisholm of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Robert J. Olson of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, and other collaborators in the Sargasso Sea using flow cytometry. Chisholm was awarded the Crafoord Prize in 2019 for the discovery. The first culture of Prochlorococcus was isolated in the Sargasso Sea in 1988 (strain SS120) and shortly another strain was obtained from the Mediterranean Sea (strain MED). The name Prochlorococcus originated from the fact it was originally assumed that Prochlorococcus was related to Prochloron and other chlorophyll-b-containing bacteria, called prochlorophytes, but it is now known that prochlorophytes form several separate phylogenetic groups within the cyanobacteria subgroup of the bacteria domain. The only species within the genus described is Prochlorococcus marinus, although two subspecies have been named for low-light and high-light adapted niche variations.

Morphology
Marine cyanobacteria are to date the smallest known photosynthetic organisms; Prochlorococcus is the smallest at just 0.5 to 0.7 micrometres in diameter. The coccoid shaped cells are non-motile and free-living. Their small size and large surface-area-to-volume ratio, gives them an advantage in nutrient-poor water. Still, it is assumed that Prochlorococcus have a very small nutrient requirement. Moreover, Prochlorococcus have adapted to use sulfolipids instead of phospholipids in their membranes to survive in phosphate deprived environments. This adaptation allows them to avoid competition with heterotrophs that are dependent on phosphate for survival. Typically, Prochlorococcus divide once a day in the subsurface layer or oligotrophic waters.

Distribution
Prochlorococcus is abundant in the euphotic zone of the world's tropical oceans. It is possibly the most plentiful genus on Earth: a single millilitre of surface seawater may contain 100,000 cells or more. Worldwide, the average yearly abundance is $2.8$ individuals (for comparison, that is approximately the number of atoms in a ton of gold). Prochlorococcus is ubiquitous between 40°N and 40°S and dominates in the oligotrophic (nutrient-poor) regions of the oceans. Prochlorococcus is mostly found in a temperature range of 10–33 °C and some strains can grow at depths with low light (<1% surface light). These strains are known as LL (Low Light) ecotypes, with strains that occupy shallower depths in the water column known as HL (High Light) ecotypes. Furthermore, Prochlorococcus are more plentiful in the presence of heterotrophs that have catalase abilities. Prochlorococcus do not have mechanisms to degrade reactive oxygen species and rely on heterotrophs to protect them. The bacterium accounts for an estimated 13–48% of the global photosynthetic production of oxygen, and forms part of the base of the ocean food chain.

Pigments
Prochlorococcus is closely related to Synechococcus, another abundant photosynthetic cyanobacteria, which contains the light-harvesting antennae phycobilisomes. However, Prochlorochoccus has evolved to use a unique light-harvesting complex, consisting predominantly of divinyl derivatives of chlorophyll a (Chl a2) and chlorophyll b (Chl b2) and lacking monovinyl chlorophylls and phycobilisomes. Prochlorococcus is the only known wild-type oxygenic phototroph that does not contain Chl a as a major photosynthetic pigment, and is the only known prokaryote with α-carotene.

Genome
The genomes of several strains of Prochlorococcus have been sequenced. Twelve complete genomes have been sequenced which reveal physiologically and genetically distinct lineages of Prochlorococcus marinus that are 97% similar in the 16S rRNA gene. Research has shown that a massive genome reduction occurred during the Neoproterozoic Snowball Earth, which was followed by population bottlenecks.

The high-light ecotype has the smallest genome (1,657,990 basepairs, 1,716 genes) of any known oxygenic phototroph, but the genome of the low-light type is much larger (2,410,873 base pairs, 2,275 genes).

DNA recombination, repair and replication
Marine Prochlorococcus cyanobacteria have several genes that function in DNA recombination, repair and replication. These include the recBCD gene complex whose product, exonuclease V, functions in recombinational repair of DNA, and the umuCD gene complex whose product, DNA polymerase V, functions in error-prone DNA replication. These cyanobacteria also have the gene lexA that regulates an SOS response system, probably a system like the well-studied E. coli SOS system that is employed in the response to DNA damage.

Ecology
Ancestors of Prochlorococcus contributed to the production of early atmospheric oxygen. Despite Prochlorococcus being one of the smallest types of marine phytoplankton in the world's oceans, its substantial number make it responsible for a major part of the oceans', world's photosynthesis, and oxygen production. The size of Prochlorococcus (0.5 to 0.7 μm) and the adaptations of the various ecotypes allow the organism to grow abundantly in low nutrient waters such as the waters of the tropics and the subtropics (c. 40°N to 40°S); however, they can be found in higher latitudes as high up as 60° north but at fairly minimal concentrations and the bacteria's distribution across the oceans suggest that the colder waters could be fatal. This wide range of latitude along with the bacteria's ability to survive up to depths of 100 to 150 metres, i.e. the average depth of the mixing layer of the surface ocean, allows it to grow to enormous numbers, up to 3×1027 individuals worldwide. This enormous number makes the Prochlorococcus play an important role in the global carbon cycle and oxygen production. Along with Synechococcus (another genus of cyanobacteria that co-occurs with Prochlorococcus) these cyanobacteria are responsible for approximately 50% of marine carbon fixation, making it an important carbon sink via the biological carbon pump (i.e. the transfer of organic carbon from the surface ocean to the deep via several biological, physical and chemical processes). The abundance, distribution and all other characteristics of the Prochlorococcus make it a key organism in oligotrophic waters serving as an important primary producer to the open ocean food webs.

Ecotypes
Prochlorococcus has different "ecotypes" occupying different niches and can vary by pigments, light requirements, nitrogen and phosphorus utilization, copper, and virus sensitivity. It is thought that Prochlorococcus may occupy potentially 35 different ecotypes and sub-ecotypes within the worlds' oceans. They can be differentiated on the basis of the sequence of the ribosomal RNA gene. It has been broken down by NCBI Taxonomy into two different subspecies, Low-light Adapted (LL) or High-light Adapted (HL). There are six clades within each subspecies.

Low-light adapted
Prochlorococcus marinus subsp. marinus is associated with low-light adapted types. It is also further classified by sub-ecotypes LLI-LLVII, where LLII/III has not been yet phylogenetically uncoupled. LV species are found in highly iron scarce locations around the equator, and as a result, have lost several ferric proteins. The low-light adapted subspecies is otherwise known to have a higher ratio of chlorophyll b2 to chlorophyll a2, which aids in its ability to absorb blue light. Blue light is able to penetrate ocean waters deeper than the rest of the visible spectrum, and can reach depths of >200 m, depending on the turbidity of the water. Their ability to photosynthesize at a depth where blue light penetrates allows them to inhabit depths between 80 and 200 m. Their genomes can range from 1,650,000 to 2,600,000 basepairs in size.

High-light adapted
Prochlorococcus marinus subsp. pastoris is associated with high-light adapted types. It can be further classified by sub-ecotypes HLI-HLVI. HLIII, like LV, is also located in an iron-limited environment near the equator, with similar ferric adaptations. The high-light adapted subspecies is otherwise known to have a low ratio of chlorophyll b2 to chlorophyll a2. High-light adapted strains inhabit depths between 25 and 100 m. Their genomes can range from 1,640,000 to 1,800,000 basepairs in size.

Metabolism
Most cyanobacterium are known to have an incomplete tricarboxylic acid cycle (TCA). In this process, 2-oxoglutarate decarboxylase (2OGDC) and succinic semialdehyde dehydrogenase (SSADH), replace the enzyme 2-oxoglutarate dehydrogenase (2-OGDH). Normally, when this enzyme complex joins with NADP+, it can be converted to succinate from 2-oxoglutarate (2-OG). This pathway is non-functional in Prochlorococcus, as succinate dehydrogenase has been lost evolutionarily to conserve energy that may have otherwise been lost to phosphate metabolism.

Strains
Table modified from

title: Prochlorococcus


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Foundation (nonprofit)

A foundation (also referred to as a charitable foundation) is a type of nonprofit organization or charitable trust that usually provides funding and support to other charitable organizations through grants, while also potentially participating directly in charitable activities. Foundations encompass public charitable foundations, like community foundations, and private foundations, which are often endowed by an individual or family. Nevertheless, the term "foundation" might also be adopted by organizations not primarily engaged in public grantmaking.

Description
Legal entities existing under the status of "foundations" have a wide diversity of structures and purposes. Nevertheless, there are some common structural elements.

 * Legal requirements followed for establishment
 * Purpose of the foundation
 * Economic activity
 * Supervision and management provisions
 * Accountability and auditing provisions
 * Provisions for the amendment of the statutes or articles of incorporation
 * Provisions for the dissolution of the entity
 * Tax status of corporate and private donors
 * Tax status of the foundation

Some of the above must be, in most jurisdictions, expressed in the document of establishment. Others may be provided by the supervising authority at each particular jurisdiction.

Europe
There is no commonly accepted legal definition across Europe for a foundation. There was a proposal for a European Foundation Statute, a legal form that would create a legal definition recognised across all EU Member States. However, this proposal was withdrawn in 2015 following its failure to pass through COREPER 1.

Foundations in civil law
The term "foundation", in general, is used to describe a distinct legal entity. Foundations as legal structures (legal entities) and/or legal persons (legal personality) may have a diversity of forms and may follow varying regulations depending on the jurisdiction where they are created. Foundations are often set up for charitable purposes, family patrimony and collective purposes which can include education or research.

In some jurisdictions, a foundation may acquire its legal personality when it is entered in a public registry, while in other countries a foundation may acquire legal personality by the mere action of creation through a required document. Unlike a company, foundations have no shareholders, though they may have a board, an assembly and voting members. A foundation may hold assets in its own name for the purposes set out in its constitutive documents, and its administration and operation are carried out in accordance with its statutes or articles of association rather than fiduciary principles. The foundation has a distinct patrimony independent of its founder.

Finland
In Finland, foundations are regulated by the Finnish Patent and Registration Office and have the four following characteristics:

 * They are set up to manage property donated for a particular purpose.
 * This purpose is determined when establishing the foundation.
 * Foundations have neither owners, shareholders, nor members.
 * A board of trustees ensures that the foundation operates appropriately, and is responsible for ensuring that the investments by the foundation are secure and profitable.

Foundations are considered legal persons in Finland. The Foundations Act in 2015 dramatically updated the laws regarding foundations.

France
There are not many foundations in comparison to the rest of Europe. In practice public administration requires at least €1 million necessary. State representatives have a mandatory seat in the board.

Germany
German regulations allow the creation of any foundation for public or private purposes in keeping with the concept of a gemeinwohlkonforme Allzweckstiftung ("general-purpose foundation compatible with the common good"). A foundation should not have commercial activities as its main purpose, but they arre permitted if they serve the main purpose of the foundation. There is no minimum starting capital, although in practice at least €50,000 is considered necessary.

A German foundation can either be charitable or serve a private interest. Charitable foundations enjoy tax exemptions. If they engage in commercial activities, only the commercially active part of the entity is taxed. A family foundation serving private interests is taxed like any other legal entity. There is no central register for German foundations.

Only charitable foundations are subject to supervision by state authorities. Family foundations are not supervised after establishment. All forms of foundations can be dissolved, however, if they pursue anti-constitutional aims. Foundations are supervised by local authorities within each state (Bundesland) because each state has exclusive legislative power over the laws governing foundations.

In contrast to many other countries, German law allows a tax-sheltered charitable foundation to distribute up to one-third of its profit to the founder and his next of kin, if they are needy, or to maintain the founder's grave. These benefits are subject to taxation.

, there are about 15,000 foundations in Germany, about 85% of them charitable foundations. More than 250 charitable German foundations have existed for more than 500 years; the oldest dates back to 1509. There are also large German corporations owned by foundations, including Bertelsmann, Bosch, Carl Zeiss AG and Lidl. Foundations are the main providers of private scholarships to German students.

Italy
In Italy, a foundation is a private non-profit and autonomous organization, its assets must be dedicated to a purpose established by the founder. The founder cannot receive any benefits from the foundation or have reverted the initial assets. The private foundations or civil code foundations are under the section about non commercial entities of the first book of the Civil Code of Law of 1942. Article 16 CC establishes that the foundation's statutes must contain its name, purpose, assets, domicile, administrative organs and regulations, and how the grants will be distributed. The founder must write a declaration of intention including a purpose and endow assets for such purpose. This document can be in the form of a notarized deed or a will. To obtain legal personality, the foundation must enroll in the legal register of each prefettura (local authority) or some cases the regional authority. There are several nuances in requirements according to each foundation's purpose and area of activity.

Netherlands
Non-profit foundations are termed as stichting in the Netherlands which are regulated by Dutch law.

Norway
See Foundations in Norway.

Portugal
A foundation (Fundação) in Portugal is regulated by Law 150/2015, with the exception of religious foundations, which are regulated by the Religious Freedom Law. Foundations may be private, wholly public (created and managed exclusively by public bodies), or public but with private management (created by public entities and optionally also private entities, but whose management is dominated by private entities). Foundations may only be operational after being recognized by the Prime Minister of Portugal.

Foundations must designate and pursue at least one of twenty-five public benefit goals defined by law. They must also have enough assets to pursue those goals. They may not benefit the founders or any other restricted group, but the general public.

Portuguese foundations may voluntarily associate themselves via the Portuguese Foundation Centre (CPF – Centro Português de Fundações), that was founded in 1993 by the Eng. António de Almeida Foundation, the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation and the Oriente Foundation.

Spain
Foundations in Spain are organizations founded with the purpose of not seeking profit and serving the general needs of the public. Such foundations may be founded by private individuals or by the public. These foundations have an independent legal personality separate from their founders. Foundations serve the general needs of the public with a patrimony that funds public services and may not be distributed to the founders' benefit.

Sweden
A foundation in Sweden (Stiftelse) is a legal entity without an owner. It is formed by a letter of donation from a founder donating funds or assets to be administered for a specific purpose. When the purpose is for the public benefit, a foundation may enjoy favorable tax treatment. A foundation may have diverse purposes, including but not limited to public benefit, humanitarian or cultural purposes, religious, collective, familiar, or the simple passive administration of funds. Normally, the supervision of a foundation is done by the county government where the foundation has its domicile, however, large foundations must be registered by the County Administrative Board (CAB), which must also supervise the administration of the foundation. The main legal instruments governing foundations in Sweden are the Foundation Act (1994:1220) and the Regulation for Foundations (1995:1280).

Switzerland
A foundation needs to be registered with the company register.

Canada
Under Canadian law, registered charities may be designated as charitable organizations, public foundations, or private foundations. The designation depends on factors such as the charity's structure, funding sources, and mode of operation. Charities receive notification of their designation from the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) upon registration. A charity with only one director or trustee is automatically designated as a private foundation. To be designated as a charitable organization or public foundation, more than half of the directors, trustees, or officials must be at arm's length. The CRA applies specific criteria to determine the designation, including the charity's purposes, activities, income allocation, and relationships with officials and donors.

Ireland
The law does not prescribe any particular form for a foundation in Ireland. Most commonly, foundations are companies limited by guarantees or trusts. A foundation can obtain a charity registration number from the Revenue Commissioners for obtaining tax relief as far as they can be considered under the law on charity, however, charitable status does not exist in Ireland. The definition usually applied is that from the Pemsel Case of English jurisprudence (1891) and the Irish Income Tax Act 1967. Trusts have no legal personality and companies acquire their legal status through the Company law and the required documents of incorporation. Foundations are not required to register with any public authority.

United Kingdom
In the UK, the word "foundation" is sometimes used in the title of a charity, as in the British Heart Foundation and the Fairtrade Foundation. Despite this, the term is not generally used in English law, and (unlike in civil law systems) the term has no precise meaning. Instead, the concept of charitable trust is in use (for example, the Wellcome Trust).

The States of Jersey are considering introducing civil law type foundations into its law. A consultation paper presenting a general discussion on foundations was brought forth to the Jersey government concerning this possibility. It was adopted by the states of Jersey on 22 October 2008 through the Foundations (Jersey) Law 200.

United States
In the United States, many philanthropic and charitable organizations (such as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation) are considered to be foundations. However, the Internal Revenue Code distinguishes between private foundations (usually endowed by an individual, family, or corporation) and public charities (community foundations or other nonprofit groups that raise money from the general public). While they offer donors more control over their charitable giving, private foundations have more restrictions and fewer tax benefits than public charities.

International networks
At an international level there are a series of networks and associations of foundations, among them Council on Foundations, EFC (European Foundation Centre), WINGS (Worldwide Initiatives for Grantmaker Support). Those organization also have a role in supporting research on foundations.

Further listening

 * Joan Roelofs,  The Invisible Hand of Corporate Capitalism, Recorded at Hampshire College, April 18, 2007.

title: Foundation (nonprofit)


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Category:KDE

KDE is an international free software community producing an integrated set of cross-platform applications designed to run on Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, Solaris and Mac OS X systems.

title: Category:KDE


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Category:GNOME

GNOME is a computer desktop environment for UNIX and UNIX-like operating systems. It is the official desktop of the GNU Project. This category contains articles related to GNOME.

For related companies, see Category:GNOME_companies.

For People, see Category:GNOME_developers.

title: Category:GNOME


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Talk:The Beach Boys

2 biopic movies about the Beach Boys
Worth a mention in the article I think;

Summer Dreams: The Story of the Beach Boys - TV Movie (1990) - www.imdb.com/title/tt0100715/

Love & Mercy movie (2014) - www.imdb.com/title/tt0903657/

Feel free to add more biopic movies if there are some. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.210.174 (talk) 21:20, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Top 40
The Beatles had more top 40 songs. 2600:1700:5401:2F40:A161:CC55:22CD:F082 (talk) 22:53, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:24, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The Beach Boys 1963 Billboard.png

Candix bankruptcy
I've removed the claim that the success of "Surfin'" bankrupted Candix as they released nine more singles after it, finally closing their doors late summer 1962. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 19:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Beach Boys


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Horrorcore

Horrorcore, also called horror hip hop, horror rap, death hip hop, death rap, or murder rap is a subgenre of hip hop music based on horror-themed and often darkly transgressive lyrical content and imagery. Its origins derived from certain hardcore hip hop and gangsta rap artists, such as the Geto Boys and Three 6 Mafia, which began to incorporate supernatural, occult, and psychological horror themes into their lyrics. Unlike most hardcore hip hop and gangsta rap artists, horrorcore artists often push the violent content and imagery in their lyrics beyond the realm of realistic urban violence, to the point where the violent lyrics become gruesome, ghoulish, unsettling, inspired by slasher films or splatter films. While exaggerated violence and the supernatural are common in horrorcore, the genre also frequently presents more realistic yet still disturbing portrayals of mental illness and drug abuse. Some horrorcore artists eschew supernatural themes or exaggerated violence in favor of more subtle and dark psychological horror imagery and lyrics.

Horrorcore has incited controversy, with some members of the law enforcement community asserting that the genre incites crime. Fans and artists have been blamed for numerous high-profile instances of violent criminal activity, including the Columbine High School massacre, the Farmville murders, murders of law enforcement officers, and gang activity.

Characteristics
Horrorcore defines a style of hip hop music that focuses primarily on dark, violent, gothic, transgressive, macabre and/or horror-influenced topics such as death, psychosis, psychological horror, mental illness, satanism, self-harm, cannibalism, mutilation, suicide, murder, torture, drug abuse, and supernatural or occult themes. The lyrics are often inspired by horror movies and are performed over moody, hardcore beats. According to rapper Mars, "If you take Stephen King or Wes Craven and you throw them on a rap beat, that's who I am". Horrorcore was described by Entertainment Weekly in 1995 as a "blend of hardcore rap and bloodthirsty metal". The lyrical content of horrorcore is sometimes described as being similar to that of death metal, and some have referred to the genre as "death rap". Horrorcore artists often feature dark imagery in their music videos and base musical elements of songs upon horror film scores.

Origins
LA Weekly listed Jimmy Spicer's 1980 single "Adventures of Super Rhyme" as the first example of "proto-horrorcore", due to a lengthy segment of the song in which Spicer recounts his experience of meeting Dracula. The group Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde specialized in horror-themed music. Dana Dane's song "Nightmares" related a frightening narrative.

Since 1986, Ganxsta N.I.P. has performed horror-themed lyrics that he has described as "Psycho Rap", but he was not commonly considered to be horrorcore until the term came into mainstream prominence. Ganxsta N.I.P. has written lyrics for other groups, including Geto Boys, who were also an influence on the early horrorcore sound.

In 1988, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince released "A Nightmare on My Street", which described an encounter with Freddy Krueger, and the Fat Boys recorded the similarly-themed "Are You Ready for Freddy" for the film A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master and its soundtrack. 1988 is also the year Insane Poetry (at the time called His Majesti) released "Armed & Dangerous", followed by their debut single as Insane Poetry, "Twelve Strokes Till Midnight", one of the first examples of music specifically made to be horrorcore. The following year saw the release of Boomin' Words from Hell, the debut album of Detroit-based rapper Esham, who would become particularly influential on Midwest horrorcore (though he rejects the term, preferring "acid rap").

Although Kool Keith claimed to have "invented horrorcore", the first use of the term appeared on the group KMC's 1991 album Three Men With the Power of Ten. Nonetheless, Kool Keith brought significant attention to horror-influenced hip hop with his lyrical content as a part of the Ultramagnetic MC's and his 1996 debut solo album Dr. Octagonecologyst.

In 2024, writers at Complex described Nas' 1994, debut studio album Illmatic  as "shocking, borderline horrorcore (before horrorcore was a genre)". The album showcased Nas's early '90s style of rap and was credited with generating significant hype for the MC.

Rise in the hip hop genre
The Geto Boys' debut album, Making Trouble, contained the dark and violent horror-influenced track "Assassins", which was cited by Joseph Bruce (Violent J of the horrorcore group Insane Clown Posse) in his book Behind the Paint as the first recorded horrorcore song. He writes that the Geto Boys continued to pioneer the style with their second release, Grip It! On That Other Level, with songs such as "Mind of a Lunatic" and "Trigga-Happy Nigga". The Geto Boys' 1991 album, We Can't Be Stopped, was also influential on the horrorcore genre and contained themes of paranoia, depression, and psychological horror, especially in the track "Chuckie", and "Mind Playing Tricks on Me".

While rappers in the underground scene continued to release horrorcore music, including Big L, Insane Poetry, and Insane Clown Posse, the mid-1990s brought an attempted mainstream crossover of the genre.

According to the book Icons of Hip Hop, horrorcore gained mainstream prominence in 1994 with the release of Flatlinerz' U.S.A. (Under Satan's Authority) and Gravediggaz' 6 Feet Deep (released overseas as Niggamortis). The Flatlinerz and Gravediggaz, along with the Geto Boys and Kool Keith, remain the most important artists in the development of horrorcore as a specific genre.

In 1995, an independent horror film called The Fear was released with a soundtrack consisting entirely of horrorcore songs, including Insane Clown Posse's biggest radio hit, "Dead Body Man" and a title track ("The Fear (Morty's Theme)") by Esham. 1995 also saw the release of Three 6 Mafia's debut album Mystic Stylez, which touched on heavy drug use, ritualistic sex, mass murder, torture, and Luciferianism. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony's E. 1999 Eternal, released in the same year, contains tales of the occult throughout, specifically on songs such as "Mr. Ouija 2", "Mo' Murda", "East 1999", and "Da Introduction". Tension would soon rise between Bone Thugs and Three 6 over their presumed similarities in style and use of dark imagery.

In 2009, dark music-themed website Fangoria named Tech N9ne's 2001 album Anghellic as an iconic and influential album to the genre, the artist, and hip-hop as a whole.

Horrorcore is generally not popular with mainstream audiences, though in some cities, like Detroit, it is the dominant style of hip-hop, with Detroit-based performers such as Insane Clown Posse and Eminem, as well as Brooklyn-based artists like Necro, having been commercially successful throughout the US. Horrorcore has thrived in Internet culture. Every Halloween since 2003, horrorcore artists worldwide have gotten together online and release a free compilation titled Devilz Nite. According to the January 2004 BBC documentary Underground USA, the subgenre "has a massive following across the US" and "is spreading to Europe". Rolling Stone in 2007 referred to it as a short-lived trend that generated "more shlock than shock".

Present-day horrorcore
In 2019, experimental trio clipping. released There Existed an Addiction to Blood, described as a "transmutation of horrorcore".

Controversy
In September 1996, Joseph Edward "Bubba" Gallegos, an 18-year-old from Bayfield, Colorado, killed his roommates after ingesting methamphetamine and listening repeatedly to horrorcore rapper Brotha Lynch Hung's song "Locc 2 da Brain". Brotha Lynch Hung is considered a horrorcore pioneer and even created his own horrorcore sub-category called "Ripgut" which is known for even more graphic lyrics dealing with hardcore gore, torture, and cannibalism. After attempting to kill his ex-girlfriend and taking two other students hostage, Gallegos was in turn killed by police. Gallegos was said to be a massive fan of Brotha Lynch Hung and his minister suggested that the music played a role in the killings, although he provided no evidence to back up that claim. Similar claims have been made about other violent acts and music, although there is "wide disagreement among experts over what effect--if any--music with violent content has on listeners".

In 1999, horrorcore group Insane Clown Posse (ICP) was considered a potential influence on school shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. ICP responded that if the shooters had been "Juggalos" (fans of ICP), they would have "gotten the whole damn school". However, Brooks Brown, the best friend of Dylan Klebold and a friend of both the shooters, was a Juggalo and had introduced Klebold to Insane Clown Posse's music.

Some police departments in the United States claim that Juggalo gangs have been linked to violent crimes. Arizona Department of Public Safety Detective Michelle Vasey has expressed concern at what she describes as the Juggalos' high potential for violence, stating, "The weapons, they prefer, obviously, hatchets ... We've got battle-axes, we've got machetes, anything that can make the most violent, gruesome wound", and, "Some of the homicides we're seeing with these guys are pretty nasty, gruesome, disgusting homicides, where they don't care who's around, what's around, they're just out to kill anybody". A 2017 Denver Police Department guide claimed that even Juggalos who are not affiliated with a gang are prone to commit "murder, shootings, kidnapping, rape, necrophilia, cannibalism, assault, and arson", and that "such acts give a Juggalo a sense of pride and street credit amongst peers", although it acknowledged that the author had not "been able to find a significant source of collected data on the Juggalos" to substantiate those claims. Allegedly horrorcore-related criminal activity has, in rare cases, even included ad-hoc domestic terrorism, such as when a Juggalo-led terrorist cell calling itself the "Black Snake Militia" attempted to raid a National Guard armory in 2012.

title: Horrorcore