text:
Talk:Decimalisation

British decimalisation
See Talk:Decimal Day for comments on merging content from various pages regarding British decimalisation -- OwenBlacker 21:53, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think you are to a winner. See that talk page for details. Pcb21| Pete 22:11, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Phrases
Rephrase: "has been undergone by all countries except..." isn't right. New countries, and some older ones I'd imagine, have always been decimalized. BenFrantzDale 08:02, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Old wording: "This process has been undergone by all countries except Mauritania and Madagascar." New wording: "All countries that have previously had non-decimal currencies have decimalized, except for Mauritania and Madagascar." How's that? Kairos 11:42, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Also, am I the only one who's a little bummed out about currency decimalization in general? It's helpful to travelers and the like, certainly, but I think all those shillings and sixpences and what-not have a character that's currently lacking in the current coins. Kairos 11:44, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, besides which, 12's are so much more convenient in terms of division. What's a third of a dollar?  33.333333 cents.  What's a third of a pre-decimalization Pound?  6s 8d, an exact amount. Nik42 07:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * and what do you need a third of a dollar for? It doesn't help much, while it makes calculating way harder (because we still calculate in a decimal system and not a 20, 12 or 240 system). -- 80.156.42.129 11:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "3 for $1" is a fairly common sale price for small items. In practice, it gets rounded up to 34¢, and nobody really cares about being cheated out of $2/3$¢.  But it may have been a bigger deal back when a cent was worth something. DanBishop (talk) 00:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Page move 2005
moved

This section is for votes and comments on the proposed move to Decimalisation.

 * Oppose. The original author used the American English spelling, and there's no reason to override that choice. JamesMLane 09:41, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This isn't the place to discuss the requested move, that's Requested moves, but in any case support -- the original version of the article exclusively discussed the decimalisation of the British currency, and the original anon editor was wrong to spell it with a "z" - the process was always spelt with an "s", I remember because I lived through it. Moreover, the article always spelled it "decimalisation" except in the article name until Violetriga went through it yesterday changing everything to the American spelling. -- Arwel 14:40, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This is the correct place to discuss it actually. I changed it all over to match the current article title after Fibonacci changed it before making this proposal. violet/riga (t) 14:46, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I notice Fibonacci changed the one occurrence of the "z" spelling to "s"; you changed it back, together with 5 other occurrences of the "s" spelling, which was clearly the preferred version as the article developed. -- Arwel 15:28, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I brought it in line with the title, as it should be. The article maintained the z spelling for a long time after the original author started the article.  While I prefer the word "Decimilisation" I think it's inappropriate to change it. violet/riga (t) 12:07, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I think this is a clear-cut decision based on original author choice – there were many edits that retained that original spelling. violet/riga (t) 14:46, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Shouldn't even need to be discussed - the main focus of the article is the decimalisation of the British currency, and they spell it with an s. Proto 11:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * That appears to be "Decimal Day" actually. violet/riga (t) 12:07, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * If the only reason to retain the incorrect spelling is because the original author spelled it incorrectly, then it should be changed. All contributions will be edited mercilessly and all that. Proto 13:47, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * But your justification for changing seems to be that it is that it is mainly about British currency, and that's just not true. violet/riga (t) 14:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - SoM 18:25, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Support hmm... Neutral no.... Support- The main origional contributer used the ised spelling and the article mainly concerns a British subject. But the main thing is to kept the spelling consistent through the article--Clawed 05:31, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Votes after the decision was made:
 * Oppose. Stick with original spelling. Jonathunder 21:41, 2005 May 26 (UTC)

Comments
Arguments for keeping it here:
 * The article was originally created with this title and this spelling.
 * The article is not exclusively about the decimalisation (yes, I spell it that way myself) of a country that uses the S spelling.
 * "The United States was the first to introduce a decimal currency" implies that it was the first to undergo the process, and they will have spelt it this way.

Arguments for moving it to decimalisation:
 * The majority of the expansion used the S spelling. This was mainly done by Seglea who rewrote and massively extended the article.
 * The article originally focused on just the UK decimalisation and it should have used the S spelling.

Interestingly there are currently 20 main namespace links to each version of the spelling. I'm going to withdraw my objection and abstain, primarily because of the first argument for moving as shown above. violet/riga (t) 14:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It is actually less than that because some of the articles that used the decimalization spelling should have been spelt decimalisation, and I have changed most of them where appropriate.--Clawed 06:10, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 19:34, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * How did this even become a debate? 'ize' endings have always been acceptable in in all english speaking countries.  'ize' is not an Americanism except in the sense that they have not adopted the 'ise' ending at all.Zebulin (talk) 10:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Medium-sized coverage of UK case
I've removed the following section, which i assume has nothing missing from Decimal Day to here:
 * ==Decimalisation in the United Kingdom==
 * main article: see Decimalisation Day

 * The switch from pounds shillings and pence to decimal currency started with the introduction of the 5p and 10p coins in 1968, although an earlier experiment resulted in the introduction of the Florin coin denominated at "one tenth of a pound" in 1849. The new coins were the same size and value as the old 1 shilling and 2 shilling coins respectively, and served to introduce the new decimal currency smoothly. The new 50p coin was introduced in 1969.

 * Decimalisation was completed on 15 February 1971 with the introduction of ½p, 1p, and 2p coins. The 20p coin came out in 1982, and the £1 coin in 1983. The old sixpence continued to circulate, valued at 2½p, but ceased to be legal tender in 1980.

 * The changeover period was originally scheduled to last a year, but the old currency stopped being used in about half that time. The old shilling and two shilling coins remained in circulation long after decimalisation, much to the confusion of visitors. They were finally withdrawn after new, smaller 5p and 10p coins were issued in 1990 and 1992.

Three levels of discussion of the same topic is confusing and seems unnecessary; if it is serving some purpose that can't be done better by putting additional emphasis on the "main article" in the short, chronological, graph and perhaps other places like the Euro-related one, let's hear about them. --Jerzy•t 20:13, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

RUSSIA
Why does it say that United States was the first to introduce decimal currency? Russia introduced a decimal currency (1 Ruble = 100 kopecks) under Peter the Great 1700-1721. Please correct.Yarilo2

 * Corrected.Yarilo2

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no move. No consensus exists to move this page at this time. Peter Symonds ( talk ) 01:36, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Decimalisation → Decimal currency — The proposed name is more commonly used than Decimalisation. --Ewawer (talk) 09:53, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Prove it. Knepflerle (talk) 00:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Do a google search on each and see what results you get. I get far wider breadth of material with decimal currency than decimalisationEwawer (talk) 07:30, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

 * "Do a google search on each and see what results you get" - that's not a particularly definitive or accurate test - it's not restricted to reliable sources, and it's unclear how to measure "breadth" or what you mean by it. As move proposer it's up to you to present the argument to convince the community!  I'm not sure why there shouldn't be two articles anyway, one at each title - one is a process, the other is the result (and of course you can have a decimal currency without going through decimalisation if you start with one in the first place).  Knepflerle (talk) 19:35, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Rename to Conversion to a decimalized curency ; because there are other kinds of decimalization, like for units of measurement (ie. Metric conversion is also called decimalization), share fractionalization, etc. 76.66.197.250 (talk) 07:07, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Metric conversion is also called decimalization" - really? Knepflerle (talk) 11:44, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes really, in conversion from non-decimal measures to a decimalized system, metrication is sometimes referred to as decimalization, (thought it also refers to the decimalized inch use in place of fractional inch' systems) 76.66.194.154 (talk) 07:09, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

 * The term Decimalisation was used by the British to brand their conversion to a decimal currency. I do not believe the term has been used in any other context. It can definitely not be used for many of the adoptions - eg the Russian adoption, nor the US one. What is the adoption of the euro to be called? Ewawer (talk) 06:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

So where do I find a "Decimal currency" article now?
I want to find a Decimal currency article, but was incorrectly redirected to Decimalisation, which universally means something else. I am not looking for decimalisation (my first hand experience in 1971 was enough of that for me). I want to read about currencies (such as the US dollar or the Euro) that were never decimalised, but were already decimal upon first introduction. For a meta-question example:
 * Why are currencies such as the US dollar or the Euro usually called decimal currency systems (divided up into smaller units of 1/10), when they seem to be centimal systems (divided up into smaller units of 1/100)?

That meta-question has nothing to do with conversion from an earlier non-decimal form (which is what decimalisation means), and everything to do with what decimal currency means. These are my two actual questions: With thanks, from ChrisJBenson (talk) 04:49, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Where might I find a Decimal currency article now that Decimalisation has got its own page (as in changing a system from non-decimal to decimal or apparently centimal)?
 * 2) Can someone please undo the obviously incorrect redirection that results from seeking an article about Decimal currency in general to this article about the singular event called Decimalisation?

This article is missing something…
What this article doesn't explain is why decimalisation took place at all. Why did we start off with fractional/factorisational currencies, and then switch to decimal ones? Presently, this article doesn't even touch that subject. I'm fairly certain I know the answer, but I'm not sure, and someone who is an expert would do well to add this information to the article. RGloucester — ☎ 00:02, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself on first decimal currency
The article claims this:

 * The Chinese Yuan is widely considered to be the first to use decimal currency[when?].[2]

But it also claims this:

 * Russia converted to a decimal currency under Tsar Peter the Great in 1704, with the ruble being equal to 100 kopeks, thus making the Russian ruble the world's first decimal currency.[3]

The pages for Ruble and Yuan also both claim they were the first. Which one is correct?

212.39.32.51 (talk) 11:26, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

I unironically wonder if decimal system is native to China, given how Chinese calendar uses 5*12 cycle. 2A00:1370:81A2:1F8E:7948:7478:689A:BE61 (talk) 08:00, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

UK not a country that has introduced the metric system. Really?
The lede states "...the metric system, which has been adopted by almost all countries (with the prominent exceptions of the United States, and, to a lesser extent, the United Kingdom)." However, the UK is now entirely metric with the exception of the mile for long distances and the pint pulled in a pub. All weights are in kilograms and grams, heights and lengths are in metres and millimetres, volumes are in litres. The law requires goods to be sold using the metric system and only the metric system is taught in schools. So the statement is utterly misleading and inaccurate. The caveat "to a lesser extent" is unclear and still gives the impression that the UK is a non-metric country which it isn't. I've tried to correct it but been reverted, so flagging it up here. Bermicourt (talk) 08:03, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

 * No, the UK has still only partially adopted the metric system, and then only for certain 'official' purposes, and only in a half-hearted way. There are no plans to extend that adoption, and indeed since Brexit the opposite could happen. Imperial is still mandated on road signs (miles, mph, yards, feet and inches); for the sale of some liquids (pints); and on mandatory motor vehicle fuel consumption notices (miles per gallon). Horse racing uses miles and furlongs, the railway industry uses miles and chains. Imperial is still the common system where regulations do not apply, and is still officially available to be used in most regulated situations - I can buy 4 ounces of sweets, a pound of apples, a stone of potatoes, 5 yards of cloth, etc. In fact, outside of officially regulated use, imperial measures are still generally the norm - 2-inch paint brushes; 50-inch TVs; 1-pound hammer, half-inch chisel; 12-inch rule; the list goes on. Feet and inches are used for people's heights; stones and pounds for their weights; pounds and ounces for the weight of their babies; acres for their land areas; square-feet for their room areas; miles, furlongs, chains, yards, feet, inches and inches for lengths; inches still appear on rulers and tape measures. And since Brexit, and as a result of public opinion, there is now an ongoing government consultation looking at whether to reinstate the status of imperial measures where that status was weakened previously. Opinion polls have always shown a preference for imperial units, even in the age bands that would have been taught metric units at school, and, in recognition of its still widespread use, school curricula were updated to mandate the inclusion of imperial units. -- DeFacto (talk). 09:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Two my kopecks: when you use "ouncez", you can't tell whether "Troy ounce" or some other ounce is used. Same goes to tons, which are either long tons, short tons, 1016kg nautical tons or 1000 kg tonnes (in layman terms, "metric tons"). The same goes to miles: regular mile is 1609m, but nautical mile is 1852m, while obsolete Russian mile is, suddenly, 7 vyorsts, e.g. over 7km. 2A00:1370:81A2:1F8E:7948:7478:689A:BE61 (talk) 07:56, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Decimalisation


text:
Holy Piby

The Holy Piby, also known as the Black Man's Bible, is a text written by an Anguillan, Robert Athlyi Rogers (d. 1931), for the use of an Afrocentric religion in the West Indies founded by Rogers in the 1920s, known as the Afro-Athlican Constructive Gaathly. The theology outlined in this work saw Ethiopians (in the classical sense of all Africans) as the chosen people of God. The church preached self-reliance and self-determination for Africans, using the Piby as its guiding document.

Content
The Holy Piby is made up of four books. The first, entitled "The First Book of Athlyi Called Athlyi", has only two chapters. The next, "The Second Book of Athlyi Called Aggregation", is the largest, with fifteen chapters, the seventh of which identifies Marcus Garvey as one of three apostles of God. The "Third Book of Athlyi Named The Facts of the Apostles" presents two prominent members of the UNIA-ACL, Robert Lincoln Poston and Henrietta Vinton Davis, as the other apostles in the Holy Trinity. The title of the last book is "The Fourth Book of Athlyi Called Precaution". That book is followed by a series of catechism-style questions and answers wherein Garvey, Davis and Poston are proclaimed to be the saviors of the "down trodden children of Ethiopia".

Rastafari movement
Together with the Royal Parchment Scroll of Black Supremacy by Fitz Balintine Pettersburg and Leonard P. Howell's The Promise Key, the Holy Piby is today recognized as a root document of Rastafari thought. While not strictly speaking a "Rastafari text", it was certainly a primary source of influence to many in the Rastafari movement, who see Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia, as the second coming of Christ. Some Rastafari see Emperor Haile Selassie I as Christ in His Kingly Character as written in the Book of Revelation, Chapter 5 and regard Marcus Mosia Garvey as a prophet.

title: Holy Piby


text:
User talk:Sam Spade/Theoretical Biases

Clarity
Your politics section remains quite unclear. Are you in favour of the "right to bear arms"? Are you a "tree-hugger"? Do you like Populists? Berlusconi? Tony Blair? Why do you write Independant with an a? Get-back-world-respect 21:54, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I favor the right to bear arms, and I hug tree's (generally when climbing them in order to build a tree stand to shoot from ;). More than supporting any one populist, I am a Populist. And the last was a spelling error :). Sam [Spade] 23:01, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Death
You state that you are "pro-death." What does this mean? Nat 18:12, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Firstly it is in regards to the abortion debate. Secondly it is in regards to the death penalty. Thirdly it is in regards to "the sanctity of human life". Finially, it is ment to embrace the wheel of life, and all of its componenets. Killing is in my eyes morally equal to reproduction, for example. Both require context. Killing a bad person is good, just as a bad person reproducing is bad. Sam [Spade] 18:21, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Equality?
So you don't support equality? By inference doesn't that make you a bigot? StoptheBus18 19:23, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Not according to this. I'm very open minded and like almost everybody. I am against satanists and polluters and greed and the wicked conspiracy they told me about on http://infowars.com/ ;) For me equality is a misconception, a false concept. What two things are ever truely equal? I have friends who are twins, and they are certainly not equal. One is good at one thing, has one personality, and the other is completely different. I prefer meritocracy, where we all have incentive to compete to be the best at what we do. Its all about the quality, both of out output and our input. We should learn to be good to each other. Why else be here? ;) Sam [Spade] 04:30, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, three guesses which link I followed to get here? Right!

Well hmm, to add to the debate: While not all people are exactly equal (We need both doctors and plumbers, or society will come to a screeching halt), this doesn't mean we can treat them differently. I think you'd agree that it'd be mean to look down on the plumber just because he's a plumber, or conversely to look down on a doctor just because he's a doctor. (In differing times and places, plumbers have been more highly regarded than doctors :-) ). Basically all citizens of a nation should have equal rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, right?

Well that's what's usually meant when people talk about Equality. I don't think anyone seriously thinks all humans are clones of each other, eh? ;-)

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

Kim Bruning 08:38, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree 1000% w kim, have you seen the link to meritocracy? Its not the best article, but I agree strongly w all things meritocratic. A good plumber is better than a bad politician anyday! ;) Sam [Spade] 21:46, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

When I say I oppose equality, I mean I oppose equality of outcome (comunism). I support Hierarchy, the rewarding of good service. Sam [Spade] 21:55, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Corporatism
If not capitalism, how are people to be rewarded for good service? Vacuum 03:09, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't oppose capitalism, rather I oppose corporations. I agree with Adam Smith that corporate involvement is the downfall of honest government. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 17:38, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * What do you mean by "corporation"? A corporation is a simply a legally recognized entity responsible for conducting business and managing its related affairs. Adraeus 00:20, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * "a legal entity (distinct from a natural person) that often has similar rights in law to those of a natural person."

I don't accept that they deserve such rights. I also disapprove of most definitions of Corporatism. I similarly dislike representative democracy, for much of the same reasons (tendency towards stagnant, corrupt anti-meritocratic, inefficient oligarchy). Additionally I despise trusts. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 00:22, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Going to dinner. Read this while I'm away. Adraeus 02:15, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I don't like treating groups as individuals in macro or micro circumstances. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 11:10, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Of God and Logic
would you care to explain how you reconcile these two?--Thor Andersen 08:26, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd love to, that’s a large part of what I'm here for. My two primary goals are

 * 1) To learn
 * 2) To love

For me God is best understood in terms of logic and laws of nature. Clearly if (for me it's obvious, you may take it simply as postulated) there is a singular monist all-encompassing imminent immanent absolute infinite sentient personal God, than [sic] the laws of nature, logic, and everyday common sense would surely be his doing.

I personally began my spiritual saga assuming I was an atheist. I remained in such a state of nascence until I was perhaps 11 or 12 yrs of age, and gained an understanding of the animist nature of reality from my studies. I came to be aware, and felt that others were also aware. I felt that there were conscious entities other than myself, that all objects great and small were alive. From the quark to the cell to the planet and universe, it is clear to me that emergence exists throughout.

Religious texts can be of value, or not, depending on the circumstances. Sometimes they may be the word of God, if he chooses to speak to you that way. More often God speaks to me in my heart. Scriptures can also be confusing or unpleasant, particularly if manipulated by the arts of the wicked (the bible itself warns against those who speak the word, yet bear ill fruits). Jesus had a lot of useful information to share, and one of the most beneficial keys is:

Matthew 7:15-20

'15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.'

No matter what anyone says, we ought judge them by their fruits, what they give forth to others. Jesus also said:

Matthew 22:34-40 34

'When the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they came together in the same place. 35 And one of them, an expert in the law, asked a question to test Him: 36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" 37 He said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and most important commandment.  39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.  40 All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments."'

These are logical and efficient methods. Love God (God=All) before any other, love your neighbor as yourself, and judge others by their fruits. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 23:21, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * God and Logic are mutually exclusive; god is an unsupported (and by definition unproveable) conjecture.

I understand that is the premise of some, I would suggest that it has no basis in fact or logic, and is an inefficient assumption based entirely on faith. Sam Spade 16:30, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I personally don't believe in either God or logic, and I have studied both. Anyways, here's the thing -- your feelings about such things as the existence of God and the aliveness of rocks could be wrong.  It could be that Descartes' evil demon is decieving you.  Furthermore, I feel that rocks are not alive.  Feelings aren't enough to justify validity, or else--as I just demonstrated--we'd have a contradiction (between your feels and mine), from which it would follow that anything is true.  There are generally two categories for justification of beliefs -- evidential and pragmatic.  There is no evidential reason to believe in your god.  While you may have pragmatic reasons, they speak nothing as to their validity.  While a belief in your god may be conceivable, it is not consistent with the principle of parsimony, which, though not necessary, is generally regarded as a good practice in logic.  Furthermore, even if a god existed, it is highly unlikely that the Christian God exists.  Impossible, rather.  There is undeniable evidence that your bible has been changed -- parts added, parts left out, parts revised.  Also, there is no contemporary evidence from Jesus' time to corroborate his historical existence.  There are no writings by him, or about him.  That doesn't usually happen to important real people.  All aspects of the new testament are borrowed from mythologies around at the time -- the importance of the sacrafice of the son of a king, the specific wounds given to Jesus by the Romans, the devil, etc.  Here's a question that I know is pretty cliche but drives directly at the heart of the issue of god and logic -- can your god create a rock so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?  Omnipotence leads to logical paradoxes, and the same goes for omniscience.  From what I hear, there are some key sections of your Old Testament that are dedicated to trying to explain that your god's motives are mysterious (IE - not logical, or else we'd be able to understand them using logic).  I think you need to drop your belief in either one or the other, if not both, because a belief in both God and logic is not even self-consistent.  --Thor Andersen 10:28, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

You seem to be suffering under the assumption that God is a god, or maybe just a superhero. I am not a biblical literalist, so I am unconcerned with objections relating to the bible itself. Personally, I would say that the gospel of Thomas, and other parts of the Nag Hammadi library are a good corroboration of Jesus, but frankly none is needed. For me, things discussed are real. Things thought of are real. Everything is real, and God is the foundation of this existence. Thusness. Tatvamasi. Look into monism. God isn't defeated by postulated paradox anymore than the laws of nature are. Perhaps no one can imagine such a heavy rock. Perhaps such a rock would be God himself, and/or the periodic singularity. I don't spend time puzzling over omnipotence, but one thing that I can say is that God doesn't appear to break the laws of nature, or otherwise behave in a "magical" or ridiculous manner. Instead, he does this. Sam Spade 10:59, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't really understand what you mean by "Everything is real" .. were that true, wouldn't it lead to violations of the Principle of Non-Contradiction (a fundamental law of logic)? Just for clarification, the god you believe in is neither omnipotent nor omniscient (because these are logically impossible), but it creates(/ed) -- is that what you're saying?  Are you by any chance a sort of panentheist or pantheist?
 * Still, you didn't really address my Cartesian skepticism objection. And tied to that is the objection that you have no logical reason (or one that is in line with the princicples of logic) to have a belief in the Christian god.  Finally, using logic as evidence for God and God as as a reason to believe in logic |begs the question, so hopefully you're not doing that.  I don't feel like you addressed all of my objections, but rather knocked down some of the weaker ones. --Thor Andersen 03:08, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'm a pantheist / panentheist, and no, I don't propose that anything is ever created. If anything is, or ever has been, created or destroyed, I am unaware of any evidence for it. As far as if God is omnipotent or omniscient, I have no idea. I don't know for sure if I am, for that matter. If God is, I likely am as well ;)

Non-Contradiction has to take into account differences of location, time and scale. The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and other aspects of minor science leave lots of room for alternate realities. Our own imagination has a physical reality in my estimation (remember, I am a monist, so even thought is "real" to me ;)

As far as Descartes, he may be fun to study (and refute), but he's almost as often wrong as Sartre IMO ;) Whimsical imagined paradoxes defeat nothing for me. And don't get me started on dualism! He thought the mind didn't... couldn't affect the "physical" world. Epiphenomenalism is just one of many philosophical jokes him and his intellectual descendants have produced. John Searle (whose own paradigm I don't accept, btw) has a highly amusing debunking of Descartes.

As far as this "you have no logical reason to have a belief in the Christian god"... which god is that? I certainly don't pray to a hyper-calvinist god, for example. My God is All, the absolute infinite, sum total of everything that ever is, was, and ever shall be... even imagined. He is conscious, personal, immanent and imminent, within you and me, and my table. He is the foundation of being, without which there couldn't be anything. Look up Brahman or Ātman, you seem to be limited by a dark age western conception of "god". I'm not talking about Zeus, real or not, I don't pray to a demi-god / genie of some kind!

Begging the question or tautology, call it any name you like, God has to exist, esp. when I define him as existence itself! Sam Spade 00:51, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm no fan of Descartes. His conclusions are absurd.  Cartesean dualism is a joke.  But that doesn't invalidate his skeptical concerns.  Also, contradictions/paradoxes are pretty important notions if you claim to believe in logic.
 * Anyways, I think what you run into is the problem that either you've defined god so losely that the term is meaningless, or you commit a fallacy of equivocation:
 * 1) god is everything,
 * 2) things exist,
 * therefore 3) a conscious, personal, immanent and imminent god exists
 * The only conclusion you can validly derive from those premises is that god (in the loose sense in which it refers to everything) exists. If you then replied that included in the everything of the universe is consciousness (for example yours and mine), then once again god is meaningless and you're basically making the tautology that everything is everything, or that things that all things that exist do exist.  These would be valid statements, but don't support any further claims or beliefs about god. --Thor Andersen 08:37, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, minus the presentation (clearly I don't think God is meaningless, any more than I think existence is meaningless). As far as what exactly he is, or intends, most of human existence has been spent attempting to comprehend and explain that. I find certain eastern concepts, like qi, karma, reincarnation and theosis to be useful. To cut to the chase, I think our fundamental distinction regards animism and nihilism. I am an animist (finding much in common with shintoism), and I suspect you tend towards nihilism? Would you mind telling me a bit more about your paradigm? Sam Spade 10:15, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, here goes an attempt. Everything in space is connected to everything else in space.  Every moment in time is connected to the moment before it and after it.  Pre-conceptually everything exists as a primordial unity.    Our conceptualization doesn't have normative authority (there's no necessary causal relationship between our concepts and the outside world), and therefore seperate objects or moments are just illusions (Buddhism), or interpretations (Nietzsche).  Pre-conceptually there is no meaning, no individuation, no value, etc.  This sort of "all is one" philosophy can be found in the philosophy of some pre-Socratics (namely the Eleatics), in Buddhism, in Nietzsche, and, in a way, is the foundation of modern social construction theory (namely social construction of reality).  A consquence is that everything that we know, atleast as we know it (for example our concepts of logic, ideas of god, or understanding of quantuum mechanics), is subjective or relative truth.  It is impossible to escape your perspective, or biological/physical being.  To say that there is intention in the universe (or god, whatever you want to call it), invovles some heavy interpretive work on what is meant by intention, and more importantly, of what is going on in the universe.  It can't be escaped.  We experience the universe through our senses and they don't allow us direct access to the outside world--they give us an interpretation of it.  What you might find interesting is that any Buddhist will tell you that karma, re-birth, or reincarnation doesn't REALLY exist. --Thor Andersen 23:26, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I often find Buddhism disturbing. Some buddhists sem to think that nothing really exists, and that we only think we exist due to our atman or ego, which they feel is a bad thing (existence involving suffering). Kinda reminds me of gnosticism. It is especially important to know what they mean by "void" (from my studies it appears they mean different things, depending on who they are). Anyhow, I vastly prefer shinto or hindu philosophy to buddhist. You seem to be a bit existential, bordering on epiphenomenalism itself in your lack of belief in objective reality. I am an absolutist. This discussion of intentionality is an important one. Are you a philosophy student by chance? I think the concept of Emergence is an important one in discussing such matters. For example, I think everything is emergent. Sam Spade 22:36, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't know where you got the idea that I don't believe in an objective reality. Read my post again.  I was saying that objective reality is irrelevent as we have no means of objectively knowing it.  I also have no idea where you got the idea that I'd believe in Epiphenomenalism.  Dualism is a load of crap.  And yes, I'm a philosophy student.  By objectivist do you mean that you could supply me with an objective synthetic truth? --Thor Andersen 05:12, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I see your distinction, but the difference between objective reality being irrelevant and being non-existant is a fine one, with little practical utility. Without objective reality, others have little verifiability or non-subjective import, and thus Epiphenomenalism would strike me as a potential conclusion, heck, even doubting ones own existence would be possible. As far as synthetic truth... I am not a philosophy major, and have only a passing knowledge of Kant and his paradigms, and no real understanding of the meaning of "synthetic truth" whatsoever. By objective truth I refer primarilly to that which can be known with certainty, such as ones own existance, consciousness, perceptions and sensations. Sam Spade 06:25, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Separate thread

 * User:Sam Spade/Talk:Theoretical Biases/Atheism thread

Yet another atheist thread

 * /yet another atheist thread

General questions
This page is cool. I wish more people could state their beliefs as succinctly as you do.

A few thoughts and questions....

 * I find it interesting that you are pro-meritocracy, but also pro-hierarchy. I am very pro-meritocracy, but I think hierarchy is inefficient. However, I do support the notion that "Those who are most qualified should be in charge." I just think that the number of levels of management and such should be kept as small as possible.
 * I like how you are pro-efficiency. That is a fundamental factor in decision making, on so many levels, that is often overlooked.
 * The page says you are anti-"choice". By "choice" do you mean abortion? Or do you mean a broader sense of the term?
 * It seems you are anti-corporatism. What does that mean exactly? Are you also anti-plutocracy? (And do you consider corporatism and plutocracy synonyms?) What measures do you propose/support to combat corporatism? Lots of people don't like corporate power, but I wonder... what can be done to reduce their effect on politics and life... especially considering that large corporations tend to provide efficiency. (Or so some people claim.)

- Pioneer-12 16:45, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I just think that the number of levels of management and such should be kept as small as possible.
 * Sure, why not?

 * By "choice" do you mean abortion? Or do you mean a broader sense of the term?
 * Broader sense, but i did intend to onvoke the abortion issue. i think abortion should be a medical (doctors) decision, not the mothers. No mother should be deciding to murder her baby. Reminds me of the news headlines from Oklahoma... *shudder*
 * Regarding "Choice", you may wish to avoid partisan political jargon when speaking of meaningful issues. Certainly, you don't seem to be fooled by the language.  Yet, you willingly parrot it.  It would perhaps be better to address the issue as it stands.  I.E. Anti-abortion, or anti-"abortion rights".  Before you misinterpret my objection, I would note that I (too?)believe abortion is equivalent to killing a person and is therefore unethical and should be illegal.  As for your "broader sense", to what are you referring? Superm401 | Talk 18:10, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Scroll down. "Parroting" is a rather rude way to refer to repetition of jingoism. I make it pretty clear I am a populist, and multi-entendres hold little fear for me. Sam Spade 01:16, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems you are anti-corporatism.
 * As usual, I was making a multi-entendre. For one thing, I was referring to that particular fascist economic method. I was also objecting to enormous mega-corporations, as well as the concept of corporations being given all the rights of an individual, but none of the responsibilities. I believe in promoting small business and networking, which I would argue is far more efficient, and provides better service (and more jobs), in the long run. As far as what can be done, everything from us individually promoting small business w our $, to govt. de-regulation and lack of taxation of small business, and precise regulation and regressive taxation of malignant mega-corporations. Taxation and morality need to be more intertwined, w bad stuff (like pollution or otherwise unhealthy products) being regressively taxed, and good stuff (like small family businesses and producers of healthy, helpful products) being deregulated and completely untaxed.

I love the opportunity for dialogue such as this! Cheers,

Sam Spade 17:52, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi Sam! If I may intrude upon this dialogue,

I still don't understand what you mean by anti-choice. Do you mind explaining how you see choice and free will? -- Subramanian talk 11:18, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I see them as unpleasent burdens generally resulting in suffering and misery. As a general rule, the less choices offered the better. This is not to suggest that anyone is ever anything other than free, we all have freewill. Rather I am suggesting that the options presented be narrowed. For example, I think it is better for wikipedia admins to obey policy, rather than to ignore all rules. Sam Spade 14:13, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Fantastic. I would admire your boldness in stating such controversial opinions, even if I disagreed. Case is, I really do agree. -- Subramanian talk 14:57, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Splendid, and from a brief look at your user page, it would look like this is far from the only thing we agree on. Cheers, Sam Spade 20:25, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Paramilitary Youth Programs
What type of these organizations do you support? Do you use the term loosely(i.e. Boy Scouts) or what? Superm401 | Talk 02:04, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yep loosely, and boy scouts would certainly apply. Essentially I feel children need more organised activities, funding and importance. I feel military or paramilitary training is suitable for this and many other purposes. Sam Spade 06:12, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * So do you actually support arming youth groups, or just support organizations with a similar leadership/achievement structure? If it's the latter, that makes sense to me.  I'm a Boy Scout myself. Superm401 | Talk 14:49, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I see a need for "arming" per se, but i do think there is a good deal of value in weapons and hand to hand training, as well as hunting and whatnot. Sam Spade 21:09, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Economics Section
Your economics section is now unclear. Do you oppose all taxation, or only taxation designed to limit pollution? Superm401 | Talk 14:58, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm, I thought it was pretty clear that I favor "Taxation and regulation of pollution, vice and trusts". The problem with the earlier version is it was unclear what sort of progressive taxation i was talking about. i didn't mean to imply progressive taxation by income (not that I oppose that either mind you) but rather progressive taxation by the level of pollution or vice involved. Hopefully the new version is more clear, but if not, I'll try to work on it some more. Sam Spade 21:08, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I see. I arbitrarily placed the section under anti, which doesn't make much sense. Superm401 | Talk 21:31, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh, I see your point! No, I favor anything not explicitly marked anti. I'm gonna make that more clear, thanks! Any thoughts are appreciated, my opinions are a work in progress, and I find discussion of them intellectually stimulating :) Sam Spade 23:35, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Deletionism
Just wondering, in Wikipedia terms, are you an inclustionist or a deletionist? ··gracefool |☺ 21:53, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Mergist and inclusionist. Obscure stubs should be merged, and verifiable or undisputed info kept. Sam Spade 16:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Unitarianism
Hey, you say you are against atheism, but for Unitarianism. Please elaborate. - Peter Bjørn Perlsø 00:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Buddy List
Just wanted to say, if wikipedia had a buddy list, you'd be the first person I'd add. :-) Lawyer2b 02:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Silverback's scores w/interleaved comments
The individualist believes that society works best through a focus on individual rights, freedoms, actions and responsibilities. The social thinker believes that the ideal state should focus more upon collective action and take a social approach to rights and responsibilities." Individual Social You scored 18 out of 100 on a scale of Individual vs Social. This means that politically you are less likely to value the need for group actions and group benefit over individual enterprise and benefit.

3% of test takers were more individual than you. 97% of test takers were more social than you. Theist vs Materialist "The materialist believes that all objective criteria to influence politics can be reasonably derived without recourse to the divine or the spiritual. The theist believes that spiritual beliefs are important and should influence government policy." Theist Materialist
 * I agree with this.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

You scored 82 out of 100 on a scale of Theist vs Materialist. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that religion and spirituality are superstitions that should not inform political debate.

84% of test takers were more theist than you. 14% of test takers were more materialist than you. Big Government vs Small Government "The big government advocate believes that governments should be responsible for regulating a wide array of social practices, even what might be considered personal decisions such as abortion, euthanasia, children's education and births. A small government advocate thinks that, wherever possible, these issues should be up to individuals or companies to direct." Big Gov Small Gov You scored 98 out of 100 on a scale of Big Government vs Small Government. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that government should keep out of legislating social policies, leaving such decisions to individuals.
 * Hmmm, I think this is because I valued something more than "things" on one question? I don't think I am that theistic.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

99% of test takers were more big government than you. 1% of test takers were more small government than you. Nationalist vs Internationalist "The nationalist believes in the sovereign rule of nation states, particularly his or her own. The internationalist believes that there should be more important international fora and perhaps, ultimately, international government." National International You scored 51 out of 100 on a scale of Nationalist vs Internationalist. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to favour international bodies over national ones.
 * I've been pegged.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

30% of test takers were more nationalist than you. 67% of test takers were more internationalist than you. Protectionist vs Free Trader "The protectionist believes in barriers against free trade most probably due to a belief that this is in his or her country's interests. The free trader rejects such notions, believing that the system ultimately suffers when tariffs, subsidies and other obstacles to free trade persist." Protection Free-Trade You scored 96 out of 100 on a scale of Protectionist vs Free Trader. This means that politically you are more likely to favour free trade over protectionist policies.
 * This is totally screwed up. Both should about 99%, the test interpreted some anti-internationalism as nationalism, and some individualist opposition to internationalism and nationalism as nationalism and internationalism respectively.  Because, I preferred the national to the international (on smaller government principles), it assumed I was nationalist.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

95% of test takers were more protectionist than you. 4% of test takers were more pro free trade than you. Absolutist vs Non-Absolutist "The absolutist believes that either a divine presence or scientific laws provide absolute truths about the world, which can and should be applied in practise. The non-absolutist may be either a relativist, or simply someone who is more pragmatic." Absolute Non-Absolute You scored 29 out of 100 on a scale of Absolutist vs Non Absolutist. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that there is an absolute truth that may guide your ideological beliefs.
 * Probably pegged. It's trade questions were general though, and didn't get into complicating specifics, like the ethical compromises involved with trading with gulags like China and Cuba, due to their restrictions on emmigration.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

2% of test takers were more absolutist than you. 98% of test takers were more non-absolutist than you. Controlled Market vs Liberal Market "Both of these categories assume a capitalist system. Assuming this system, the controlled market believer holds that government should intervene in regulating a nation's economy: wage laws, environmental standards, privatised industries and workplace relations policy. A liberal market thinker believes that such regulation is unnecessary and often counter-productive." Controlled Liberal You scored 80 out of 100 on a scale of Controlled Market vs Liberal Market. This means that politically you are less likely to believe that there is need for government regulation of industry.
 * This is a rather specialized definition of absolutism. I just believe that most problems yield to critical thinking and have little patience for quishyness and equivocating in ones thinking.  This probably explains why I am more comfortable with people who believe in SOMETHING (such as fundies), than I am with post-modern, marxist influenced types.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

92% of test takers were more controlled market thinkers than you. 7% of test takers were more liberal market thinkers than you. Marxist vs Non-Marxist "This scale purports to show to what extent you follow the thought and teachings of Marx. Marxists tend to be scientific, materialist and revolutionary, believe in class struggle and the laws of historical and dialectic materialism." Marxist Non-Marxist You scored 65 out of 100 on a scale of Marxist vs Non-Marxist. This means that politically you are less likely to follow the philosophies of Marx.
 * Pegged again. --Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

87% of test takers were more Marxist than you. 12% of test takers were more non-Marxist than you.

 * Good grief! One can't think it is OK for labor to organize without being called 12% marxist.  I don't deserve this.--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Sam, I don't think you should call this test "thorough" it isn't that good. You must have felt it diagnostic of something you know about yourself that others don't usually perceive?--Silverback 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I donno, I actually mainly ment it was long ;) Anyhow, it seemed to do well w you on all but a couple of categories. What I would find entertaining is a short list of maybe 4 questions or so I could answer, and ask others, that pegs our views fairly clearly. Kinda like story problems. That would be fun for coctail parties and such (altho I'm not supposed to discuss religion and politics when overseas, I seem to do nothing but... Very sorry about how your arbcom case went btw, that was quite unforunate. Please keep in touch. Sam Spade 17:28, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

 * See also User:Sam_Spade/Theoretical_Biases. Sam Spade 02:05, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Fancy-Pants "Sub-Pages"
Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly did you make your "sub-pages" (theoretical biases, for example)? Its something I'd perhaps, like to do to my own user page, but as I have said, I am ignorant on the matter? Sixtus LXVI 04:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I wrote a link in the edit mode, like User:Sixtus LXVI/Sub-pages . Then when I hit the save button, it became a red link, like thi : User:Sixtus LXVI/Sub-pages. There could also be pages like User:Sixtus LXVI/Sub-pages/a and User:Sixtus LXVI/Sub-pages/b, which could be linked to @ User:Sixtus LXVI/Sub-pages. Sam Spade 20:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Sixtus LXVI 02:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sam Spade/Theoretical Biases


text:
Bellinzona

Bellinzona (, ; Ticinese Belinzóna ; Bellinzone ; Bellenz ; Blizuna ) is a municipality, a historic Swiss town, and the capital of the canton of Ticino in Switzerland. The town is famous for its three castles (Castelgrande, Montebello, Sasso Corbaro) that have been UNESCO World Heritage Sites since 2000.

The town lies east of the river Ticino, at the foot of the Alps. It stretches along the river valley, surrounded by the southern ranges of the Lepontine Alps to the east and west, and by the Lugano Prealps to the south.

Name and coat of arms

The toponym is first attested in 590 in Latin as Belitio or Bilitio (in the accusative, Bilitionem), by Gregory of Tours. The name is Lepontic in origin, possibly from belitio ("juniper") or belitione ("juniper bushes").

During the medieval period, the name is found as Berinzona (721, 762, 803, 1002), Birrinzona (1004), Birizona (1168), Beliciona (901, 977) and Belinzona (1055). The German name of the town is Bellenz. A local folk etymology derives the name Bellinzona from zona bellica "war zone", making a connection to the Italian Wars.

The blazon of the municipal coat of arms is an erect serpent in silver on a red field. The fabulous animal is called in Italian "Biscione". This animal, which can also be found on the arms of the Alfa Romeo car company, is linked with the Visconti of Milan, who were feudal lords of Bellinzona in the 14th and 15th centuries.

Pre-History and Roman era
Bellinzona has always occupied an important geographic location in the Alps. To the south, the Po Valley is accessible by a lowland route down the valley of the river Ticino and by Lake Maggiore. To the north, the valley of the Ticino leads to the high alpine passes of Nufenen, St. Gotthard, Lukmanier and San Bernardino. Although now little used, the San Jorio Pass to the east was also important in Bellinzona's past.

While the region has been occupied since the early Neolithic age it wasn't until the late 1st century BC that a fort was built in the area during the reign of the Roman Emperor Augustus. While the fort fell into disrepair in the following centuries, it was rebuilt and greatly expanded in the 4th century AD. During the reign of Diocletian and Constantin a chain of castles and watchtowers were built to protect northern Italy from invasion. Bellinzona's location was recognized as a key point in the defenses and a large castle was built to protect the walls. The town that grew up around the fortifications was known as Bilitio.

Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire the successor states, which included the Ostrogoths around 500 AD, the eastern Byzantine Empire towards the middle of the 6th century, and the Longobards from 568/70, all took control of Bellinzona and used the castle to assert control of the surrounding passes. Under the Longobards, Bellinzona became the site of a permanent garrison to protect the region from raids by the neighboring Frankish and Alemannic tribes. From Bellinzona the Longobards controlled the traffic on the important trade route from Varese over Ponte Tresa, the Monte Ceneri Pass, Biasca and finally over the Lukmanier Pass into Chur. Some researchers believe that Bellinzona may have been the capital of a county that included most of the valleys in Ticino.

Early Middle Ages
At around 774 the Frankish Kingdom (that would become the Carolingian Empire) gained control of the Ticino valley including Bellinzona.

About two centuries later the Holy Roman Emperor Otto III, seeking to restore the power of glory of ancient Rome and expand into Italy, opened the Lukmanier and St. Bernard passes. Control of Bellinzona was a key part of this expansion. The town was taken from Milan and given as a gift to the Bishop of Como, who supported the Ottonian dynasty. In 1002, following the death of Otto III, Marquis Arduino of Ivrea declared himself King of Italy and ratified the bishop's ownership of the Castelgrande and the town. Two years later, after Arduino had been defeated by Henry II the King of Germany, Henry II's man Enrico II reratified the gift of the Castelgrande on the Bishop of Como. The town is mentioned in medieval sources in 1218 as Bilizione.

Conflicts between the Pope and the Emperor

During the Investiture Controversy of the late 11th century the town of Bellinzona with its castle came under the control of the Hohenstaufens of Swabia. However, in 1180, Frederick I (Barbarossa) placed the town under the jurisdiction of the town of Como. In the following years Como tended to support the Pope in his conflicts with the Holy Roman Emperor. However, in 1239, Como sided with the Emperor Frederick II who quickly moved forces into Bellinzona and strengthened the Castelgrande. In 1242 Milan sent Guelph (or pro-papacy) forces under the command of Simone di Orello to take Bellinzona. The town and castle were taken which weakened the Emperor south of the Alps. However the town was back under the jurisdiction of Como in 1249. Conflicts in northern Italy continued, the Castelgrande was besieged several times in 1284, 1292 and 1303. During this time the Rusca family in Como, a Ghibelline or pro-Imperial family, fought the growing power of Milan under the pro-papacy House of Visconti with limited success. Around the end of the 13th century the Rusca family built another castle, Montebello, in Bellinzona, which they controlled. This was fortunate because by 1335 the Rusca family had been driven out of Como and had to retreat to Bellinzona. Five years later, in 1340, Milan besieged Bellinzona. Following a lengthy siege, the town fell to Milan but the Ruscas were allowed to keep Montebello. Pro-papacy Milan would dominate Bellinzona for the next one and a half centuries, though the pro-Imperial Rusca would also occupy part of the town.

Expansion of Bellinzona under Milan
Under the control of the Visconti, trade flourished and Bellinzona grew. When an alternative route over the Alps, the Schöllenen bridge opened, traffic in the St. Gotthard increased to the highest levels ever. During the second half of the 14th century a long wall, the Murata, was built across the Tessin valley, allowing Milan to protect and tax the trade route over the St. Gotthard Pass. While the town was controlled by Milan through the Visconti after 1340, the Visconti did not have a formal title and feudal rights until 1396 when they were granted by King Wenceslaus. However, the orderly growth of Bellinzona was threatened in 1402 when Duke Gian Galeazzo Visconti died. In 1403 Bellinzona came under the control of Alberto di Sacco of Val Mesolcina, who held it until 1419 before it was taken over by Uri and Obwalden, which expanded into the Leventina Valley. Milan attacked the town three years later in 1422 after an offer to buy the town was rejected by the Swiss Confederation. The troops from Uri and Obwalden were quickly driven from the town and later defeated at the Battle of Arbedo on 30 June 1422. This defeat discouraged the expansionist intentions of Uri and its allies towards Lake Maggiore for a time.

During the period of unrest following Gian Galeazzo Visconti's death, a tower which would become the nucleus of the third castle, Sasso Corbaro, was built outside the town.

While the border between Uri and Milan was fixed in the peace treaty of 1426, in 1439 Uri invaded again. While they were unable to take Bellinzona, the victories of the Swiss troops led to Milan granting all of the Leventina Valley to Pollegio to Uri in 1441. Following the death of Duke Filippo Maria Visconti in 1447, Bellinzona was in the middle of the succession crisis between Franchino Rusca of Locarno and Heinrich of Val Mesolcina, who were allied with Uri and the Ambrosian Republic in Milan. The war following the succession crisis lasted nearly three years until Francesco I Sforza seized power in Milan. Bellinzona quickly accepted the new Sforza dynasty and the peace and stability that followed.

The peace was broken again in 1478 when the Swiss once again attacked Bellinzona unsuccessfully. However Swiss pride was restored by the Battle of Giornico which followed, where a force of 600 Swiss soldiers defeated 10,000 Milanese troops. Following the attack, Milan built the Sasso Corbaro either on the site of a tower which had been built nearly a century before. The other two castles were strengthened and the Murata wall across the valley was rebuilt. Much of the modern castles and fortifications date from this period of construction in the late 15th century.

An associate of the Swiss Confederation
In 1499 nearly one and a half centuries of Milanese rule ended with the invasion of Milan by Louis XII of France. He captured Bellinzona and fearing an attack by the Swiss, fortified the Castelgrande with 1000 troops. Throughout the winter of 1499/1500 unrest in Bellinzona grew, until January when an armed revolt of the citizens of Bellinzona drove the French troops from the town. Following the capture and execution of Ludovico Sforza in April 1500 and seeking protection from France, Bellinzona joined the Swiss Confederation on 14 April 1500, as a condominium under the joint administration of Uri, Schwyz and Nidwalden. Following the Napoleonic invasion of Switzerland in 1798, Bellinzona was the capital of the canton of Bellinzona within the Helvetic Republic (1798–1803).

Bellinzona since 1803

Following the Act of Mediation in 1803 Bellinzona became part of the independent canton of Ticino, and the capital of the new canton from 1803 to 1814. From that date until 1878, Bellinzona, Lugano, and Locarno, took turns being capital every six years. In 1878 Bellinzona became the capital of the canton.

The town includes the village of Artore and, since the incorporation in 1907, the former municipalities of Carasso, Daro, and Ravecchia.

In 1874, the first sections of the Gotthard railway opened, linking Bellinzona to Biasca and Locarno. By 1882, the whole line was open, extending northwards to northern Switzerland via the Gotthard Tunnel, southwards to Lugano and Milan via the Monte Ceneri Pass, and down the east shore of Lake Maggiore to Luino. Between 1907 and 1972, Bellinzona was also linked to Mesocco and other Val Mesolcina communities by the Bellinzona–Mesocco railway.

Geography
On 2 April 2017 the former neighbouring municipalities of Camorino, Claro, Giubiasco, Gnosca, Gorduno, Gudo, Moleno, Monte Carasso, Pianezzo, Preonzo, Sant'Antonio and Sementina merged into Bellinzona.

Bellinzona is situated in the valley of the river Ticino, at an altitude of 240 m. The town centre lies about 1 km east of the river, with the urban area confined to the bottom and lower slopes of the valley. However the municipality's boundaries extend up both sides of the valley, to altitudes of 2240 m to the west, and 2195 m to the east.

The town is located at a point at which the river Ticino, which has been flowing in a generally southerly direction, makes a turn to the west, to flow through the wide Pionoa di Magadino before entering the Lake Maggiore, and after it finally reaches to the Italian Po Valley and Lombardy.

Upstream, several valleys reach into the high Alps, with access to northern Switzerland over or through the Passo del San Gottardo via the Valle Leventina, the upper valley of the Ticino, and further to the west with access to the Valais over the Nufenen Pass via the Val Bedretto, and access to the Grisonian Surselva of the Anterior Rhine via the Valle di Blenio over the Lukmanier Pass. The river Moesa, running down the Valle Mesolcina from the San Bernardino Pass with access to the Gresionian valley Rheinwald of the Posterior Rhine, joins the Ticino on the northern boundary of the town.

To the south the Monte Ceneri Pass crosses the Lugano Prealps to give access to Lake Lugano and an alternate route to Lombardy, whilst the San Jorio Pass provides a possible route east to the upper Lake Como.

The town Bellinzona has an area,, of 19.15 km2. Of this area, 4.21 km2 or 22.0% is used for agricultural purposes, while 11.96 km2 or 62.5% is forested. Of the rest of the land, 4.55 km2 or 23.8% is settled (buildings or roads), 0.47 km2 or 2.5% is either rivers or lakes and 0.09 km2 or 0.5% is unproductive land. Of the built up area, industrial buildings made up 1.6% of the total area while housing and buildings made up 13.0%. Transportation infrastructure made up 5.8% while parks, green belts and sports fields made up 2.7%. Out of the forested land, 60.1% of the total land area is heavily forested and 1.9% is covered with orchards or small clusters of trees. Of the agricultural land, 6.6% is used for growing crops, while 2.5% is used for orchards or vine crops and 13.0% is used for alpine pastures. All the water in the municipality is flowing water.

Demographics
Bellinzona has a permanent population of. In 2008, 29.4% of the population were foreign nationals. Between 1997 and 2007 the population has changed at a rate of 0.7%.

Most of the population speaks Italian (87.4%), with German being second most common (3.6%) and Serbo-Croatian being third (2.5%). Of the Swiss national languages, 14,392 people speak Italian, 590 speak German, 189 people speak French, and 13 people speak Romansh. The remainder (1,279 people) speak another language. The metropolitan area of Bellinzona had a population of 47,128, divided into 16 municipalities.

, the gender distribution of the population was 46.6% male and 53.4% female. The population was made up of 5,503 Swiss men (31.8% of the population), and 2,567 (14.8%) non-Swiss men. There were 6,781 Swiss women (39.1%), and 2,472 (14.3%) non-Swiss women.

In there were 132 live births to Swiss citizens and 45 births to non-Swiss citizens, and in same time span there were 132 deaths of Swiss citizens and 15 non-Swiss citizen deaths. Ignoring immigration and emigration, the population of Swiss citizens remained the same while the foreign population increased by 30. There were 7 Swiss men who emigrated from Switzerland to another country, 3 Swiss women who emigrated from Switzerland to another country, 67 non-Swiss men who emigrated from Switzerland to another country and 70 non-Swiss women who emigrated from Switzerland to another country. The total Swiss population change in 2008 (from all sources) was an increase of 377 and the non-Swiss population change was a decrease of 202 people. This represents a population growth rate of 1.0%.

The age distribution,, in Bellinzona is; 1,530 children or 8.8% of the population are between 0 and 9 years old and 1,623 teenagers or 9.4% are between 10 and 19. Of the adult population, 2,091 people or 12.1% of the population are between 20 and 29 years old. 2,526 people or 14.6% are between 30 and 39, 2,721 people or 15.7% are between 40 and 49, and 2,260 people or 13.0% are between 50 and 59. The senior population distribution is 1,969 people or 11.4% of the population are between 60 and 69 years old, 1,470 people or 8.5% are between 70 and 79, there are 1,133 people or 6.5% who are between 80 and 89.

, there were 7,294 private households in the municipality, and an average of 2.2 persons per household. there were 1,490 single family homes (or 51.5% of the total) out of a total of 2,892 inhabited buildings. There were 419 two family buildings (14.5%) and 642 multi-family buildings (22.2%). There were also 341 buildings in the municipality that were multipurpose buildings (used for both housing and commercial or another purpose).

The vacancy rate for the municipality,, was 1.45%. Of the apartments, a total of 7,255 apartments (85.8% of the total) were permanently occupied, while 932 apartments (11.0%) were seasonally occupied and 268 apartments (3.2%) were empty. there were 8,455 apartments in the municipality. The most common apartment size was the 3-room apartment of which there were 2,746. There were 474 single room apartments and 1,253 apartments with five or more rooms. , the construction rate of new housing units was 6.2 new units per 1000 residents.

the average price to rent an average apartment in Bellinzona was 956.03 Swiss francs (CHF) per month (US$760, £430, €610 approx. exchange rate from 2003). The average rate for a one-room apartment was 673.24 CHF (US$540, £300, €430), a two-room apartment was about 740.60 CHF (US$590, £330, €470), a three-room apartment was about 910.37 CHF (US$730, £410, €580) and a six or more room apartment cost an average of 1406.75 CHF (US$1130, £630, €900). The average apartment price in Bellinzona was 85.7% of the national average of 1116 CHF.

Historic demographics
source: Historical Dictionary of Switzerland
 * Number of households
 * in 1990, 879 were either atheist or did not identify with any religion

Elections
In the 2007 federal election the most popular party was the FDP which received 30.61% of the vote. The next three most popular parties were the SP (23.11%), the CVP (19.85%) and the Ticino League (11.42%). In the federal election, a total of 4,634 votes were cast, and the voter turnout was 46.1%.

In the Ticino Gran Consiglio election, there were a total of 10,187 registered voters in Bellinzona, of which 6,486 or 63.7% voted. 109 blank ballots and 16 null ballots were cast, leaving 6,361 valid ballots in the election. The most popular party was the PLRT which received 1,569 or 24.7% of the vote. The next three most popular parties were; the SSI (with 1,233 or 19.4%), the PS (with 1,210 or 19.0%) and the PPD+GenGiova (with 957 or 15.0%).

In the Ticino Consiglio di Stato election, there were 60 blank ballots and 22 null ballots, which left 6,405 valid ballots in the election. The most popular party was the PS which received 1,472 or 23.% of the vote. The next three most popular parties were; the PLRT (with 1,453 or 22.7%), the SSI (with 1,103 or 17.2%) and the LEGA (with 1,074 or 16.8%).

Economy
The local industry is mainly based on mechanical engineering. The Società Bancaria Ticinese is based in Bellinzona. The most important employer is Swiss Federal Railways.

, Bellinzona had an unemployment rate of 5.16%. , there were 33 people employed in the primary economic sector and about 10 businesses involved in this sector. 1,691 people are employed in the secondary sector and there are 149 businesses in this sector. 11,647 people are employed in the tertiary sector, with 1,093 businesses in this sector.

, there were 16,293 workers who commuted into the municipality and 2,631 workers who commuted away. The municipality is a net importer of workers, with about 6.2 workers entering the municipality for every one leaving. About 45.3% of the workforce coming into Bellinzona are coming from outside Switzerland, while 0.1% of the locals commute out of Switzerland for work. Of the working population, 8.8% used public transportation to get to work, and 50.6% used a private car.

, there were 9 hotels in Bellinzona with a total of 145 rooms and 283 beds.

Religion
From the, 12,185 or 74.0% were Roman Catholic, while 651 or 4.0% belonged to the Swiss Reformed Church. There are 2,164 individuals (or about 13.14% of the population) who belong to another church (not listed on the census), and 1,463 individuals (or about 8.89% of the population) did not answer the question.

Weather
Bellinzona has an average of 102.8 days of rain or snow per year and on average receives 1563 mm of precipitation. The wettest month is May during which time Bellinzona receives an average of 181 mm of rain or snow. During this month there is precipitation for an average of 13 days. The driest month of the year is December with an average of 60 mm of precipitation over 13 days.

Education
In Bellinzona about 60.5% of the population (between age 25–64) have completed either non-mandatory upper secondary education or additional higher education (either university or a Fachhochschule).

In Bellinzona there are a total of 2,662 students. The Ticino education system provides up to three years of non-mandatory kindergarten and in Bellinzona there are 413 children in kindergarten.

The primary school program lasts for five years and includes both a standard school and a special school. In the municipality, 781 students attend the standard primary schools and 51 students attend the special school. In the lower secondary school system, students either attend a two-year middle school followed by a two-year pre-apprenticeship or they attend a four-year program to prepare for higher education. There are 632 students in the two-year middle school and 3 in their pre-apprenticeship, while 271 students are in the four-year advanced program.

The upper secondary school includes several options, but at the end of the upper secondary program, a student will be prepared to enter a trade or to continue on to a university or college. In Ticino, vocational students may either attend school while working on their internship or apprenticeship (which takes three or four years) or may attend school followed by an internship or apprenticeship (which takes one year as a full-time student or one and a half to two years as a part-time student). There are 162 vocational students who are attending school full-time and 299 who attend part-time. The professional program lasts three years and prepares a student for a job in engineering, nursing, computer science, business, tourism and similar fields. There are 50 students in the professional program.

, there were 2,957 students in Bellinzona who came from another municipality, while 313 residents attended schools outside the municipality.

Bellinzona is home to 2 libraries. These libraries include; the Biblioteca Cantonale Bellinzona and the Biblioteca comunale. There was a combined total of 138,818 books or other media in the libraries, and in the same year a total of 43,919 items were loaned out.

Transportation

Bellinzona railway station is a major intermediate stop on the Gotthard railway. It is a stopping point for major trains heading north toward Arth-Goldau and Zürich, south toward Lugano, Chiasso and Italy, or southwest to Locarno. The station is also served by the regional trains operated by TiLo to Biasca, Chiasso, Locarno, Lugano and Malpensa Airport.

PostBus Switzerland, known locally as the AutoPostale, operate a small network of city bus routes within Lugano, as well as longer distance routes to other towns and cities. All routes serve the railway station.

The A2 and A13 motorways, as well as some main roads, link here, thus making it an important transportational node. The A2 runs north via the Gotthard Pass to Lucerne, Basel and Germany, and south to Lugano and Italy. The A13 runs north-east via the San Bernardino Pass to Chur and Austria.

Culture
The town is known for its carnival Rabadan, which has taken place for over 150 years.

Sport
The football club AC Bellinzona play in the Swiss Challenge League. Their stadium is the Stadio Comunale.

GDT Bellinzona, the hockey team, plays in the Swiss 1. Liga.

The female basketball team (Pallacanestro Bellinzona) plays in the National League A.

The floorball team (Ticino Unihockey) has played in the National League B for some years.

The light athletics society (GAB Bellinzona) organises every year a meeting called "Galà dei Castelli" (literally: Castles's gala), with a lot of world-famous athletes and the best Swiss athletes.

Heritage sites of national significance
Bellinzona is home to twelve buildings or areas that are listed as Swiss heritage site of national significance. Additionally, it is home to the UNESCO World Heritage Site of the Three Castles of Bellinzona. The merger on 2 April 2017 added seven additional buildings or sites. The entire old town of Bellinzona, along with the villages of Moleno and Preonzo, is listed on the Inventory of Swiss Heritage Sites.

In addition to the Three Castles and the town walls, the medieval and early modern town is included on the list. Three religious buildings, the Church of S. Maria delle Grazie, the Collegiata dei Ss. Pietro e Stefano and the Church of S. Biagio a Ravecchiai, are on the list. The Cantonal Archives, Bagno Pubblico, the secondary school (Scuola media) on via Lavizzari 28 and the Teatro sociale are the rest of the buildings on the list.

The Three Castles
The Three Castles, officially listed as the Three Castles, Defensive Wall and Ramparts of the Market-Town of Bellinzona, have been a UNESCO World Heritage Site since 2000. The group is composed of Castelgrande, castle Montebello, castle Sasso Corbaro and fortified walls. The Castelgrande is located on a rocky peak overlooking the valley, with a series of fortified walls that protect the old town and connect to the Montebello. The third castle (Sasso Corbaro) is located on an isolated rocky promontory south-east of the other two.

Castelgrande
The site of the Castelgrande has been fortified since at least the late 1st century BC and until the 13th century, it was the only fortification in Bellinzona. During its history the castle has been known as the stronghold (before the 13th century), the Old Castle in the 14th and 15th centuries, Uri Castle after 1506 and Saint Michael's Castle from 1818.

The Castelgrande hill includes a nearly vertical side on the north and a steep southern side, but is nearly flat and 150 to 200 m in diameter. The natural shape of the hill has encouraged every man-made fortification to follow the same contours. While the Roman fort is not visible the Roman foundations were used by the High Middle Ages castle which followed. Of the High Middle Ages castle the only visible parts are a few pieces of wall that are still standing. Much of the visible castle dates from 1250 to 1500 with extensive renovations and some expansion in the last two centuries. Most of the area inside the castle walls is now flat, open space.

Records from the 11th to 15th centuries as well as archeological evidence indicate that the castle grounds were once full of buildings. However, most of these were pulled down by the Dukes of Milan to free up interior space. The open space was divided into 3 large baileys which served to provide temporary housing for troops that could be stationed in Bellinzona. Under the Dukes of Milan, the outer fortifications were extended and strengthened. The walls were raised and extended and towers were added. The western walls were totally rebuilt and connected to the town walls.

The castle can be reached by taking an elevator from the foot of the rock to the castle grounds or by climbing steep, narrow streets from the town centre through the town wall onto the castle grounds.

Montebello
Montebello Castle (known as the Small, New or Middle Castle in the 15th century, as Schwyz Castle from 1506 and St. Martin's Castle after 1818) is located to the east of the town centre. It was built before 1313 for the pro-Imperial Rusca family, who occupied the castle following the Visconti victory and occupation of the Castelgrande. By the end of the 14th century it was in the hands of the Visconti. The castle was renovated and expanded between 1462 and 1490 to its current state. In the 19th century, the castle fell into disrepair and was renovated starting in 1903.

A little chapel, dedicated to Saint Michael, leans against the wall of the more recent south-facing section; built around 1600, it is one of the few buildings erected in the castles of Bellinzona under the rule of the three Swiss cantons.

Montebello Castle houses the Archaeological and Civic Museum. The museum was opened in 1974 and is located in the tower and the former residential quarters of Montebello Castle. It is divided into two sections-history and archaeology. In the history section, there are several capitals from the 15th century and a rare 13th-century Baptismal font as well as drawings and sketches from several artists. This section also houses a collection of ceremonial and military arms. The archaeology section includes many items from 1400 to 1500 BC as well as ceramics, glassware, funeral urns, ornamental objects and jewellery in iron and bronze from around the canton. The museum is open from March to November.

Sasso Corbaro
Sasso Corbaro, known as Unterwalden Castle after 1506 and Saint Barbara's Castle after 1818, is about 600 m south-west of town on a rocky hill. Unlike the other two castles Sasso Corbaro is not integrated into the town walls. The first part of the castle was the north-eastern tower which was built in 1478 to close a gap in the defenses of the town. The walls and south-west tower were added later. The castle was struck by lightning multiple times during the 16th and 17th centuries, and by 1900 was falling into ruins.

Today, Sasso Corbaro Castle houses the Sala Emma Poglia which is the "wooden room" built for the Emma family during the 17th century. Originally located in the entrance hall of their home in Olivone in the Blenio Valley, the room was purchased by the canton of Ticino in 1944 and housed first in the Castelgrande before being moved to the Sasso Corbaro in 1989. The room is panelled entirely in walnut and also includes the stüva, stove which provided heating. The stove bears the crest of the Emma family (an eagle and a lion rampant). The museum also houses temporary exhibits. It is open from March until November.

Notable people

 * Louis Wyrsch (1793–1858), a politician and military commander of the 19th century
 * Carlo Salvioni (1858–1920) a Swiss romanist and linguist.
 * Henri Dubuis (1906–2003), an architect, he designed the Volkshaus in Biel/Bienne in 1932
 * Laura Solari (1913–1984), an Italian film actress, 1936–1969
 * Ernst Brugger (1914–1998), a politician and member of the Swiss Federal Council 1969–1978
 * Giorgio Orelli (1921–2013), an Italian-speaking Swiss poet, writer and translator
 * Fritz Peter (1925–1994) a Swiss operatic tenor.
 * Mauro Baranzini (born 1944), an economist of the Cambridge Post-Keynesian school
 * Renato Berta (born 1945), a cinematographer and film director
 * Pablo Togni (born 1979), part of NEVERCREW a street art group that creates large format murals

Sport

 * Domenico Giambonini (1868–1956), a sport shooter who competed in the 1920 Summer Olympics
 * Antonio Permunian (born 1930), a football goalkeeper who played in the 1962 FIFA World Cup
 * Luca Tramontin (born 1966), rugby player and commentator, created the "Orules" rugby game for disabled
 * Marco Giampaolo (born 1967), an Italian association football manager currently at Sampdoria
 * Kubilay Türkyilmaz (born 1967), a former footballer, 380 club caps and 64 for Switzerland
 * Massimo Busacca (born 1969), a former football referee and Head of FIFA Refereeing
 * Stefania Antonini (born 1970), an Italian former football goalkeeper who played 32 games for the Italy women's national football team
 * Massimo Lombardo (born 1973), a former footballer, now assistant manager of FC Basel
 * Daniela Scalia (born 1975), an anchorwoman and sport journalist, collaborates with Luca Tramontin
 * Antonio Marchesano (born 1991) a footballer, over 230 club caps
 * Mauro Lustrinelli (born 1976), a former pro. footballer, 484 club caps and 12 for Switzerland
 * Daniel Panizzolo (born 1986), a Swiss footballer
 * Nicole Bullo (born 1987), an ice hockey defender, plays for the Switzerland women's national ice hockey team and competed in the 2006, 2010 and 2014 Winter Olympics

title: Bellinzona


text:
George K. Nash

George Kilbon Nash (August 14, 1842 – October 28, 1904) was an American attorney and Republican politician from Ohio. He served as the 41st governor of Ohio.

Biography
Nash was born in York Township, Medina County, Ohio. He attended the preparatory school at Western Reserve College. At 20 years of age he entered Oberlin College and stayed until his sophomore year, when he enlisted as a private in the One hundred fiftieth regiment of the Ohio National Guard of the Union Army during the Civil War. After the war he studied law in the offices of Robert B. Warden, who had been a justice of the Ohio Supreme Court. He was admitted to the bar in 1867 in Columbus, Ohio. He was elected prosecuting attorney of Franklin County, Ohio, in 1870, and re-elected in 1872. He re-entered private practice, and in 1876 lost a bid for Congress, and lost for Ohio Attorney General in 1877. In October, 1879, he was elected Ohio Attorney General. In 1881 he was re-elected. In 1883, he was appointed a member of the Supreme Court Commission of Ohio for two years. He then devoted time to lucrative private practice, including significant railroad litigation, and party politics. Nash served as Governor of Ohio from January 8, 1900, to January 11, 1904.

Story with Dick Price
The following story is written in the book by Al Jennings, Through the Shadows With O. Henry. A young inmate, Dick Price, was sentenced for life for repeated safe-cracking, in which he was a good specialist. Once there was a necessity to open a safe of a company, when keys were lost. George Nash promised to pardon Price, if he did it. Price cracked the safe, but Nash didn't pardon him, failing to fulfil his promise. Soon Price died in prison. His story was used by O. Henry in his story "A Retrieved Reformation".

According to other sources, the name of the safe-cracker was Jimmy Connors.

Family
George K. Nash was the son of Asa Nash and Electa Branch Nash. They were farmers in Medina County, originally from Massachusetts. There were three sons and two daughters in the family. Nash married Mrs. William K. Deshler, (Adaline Ayres), April, 1882. She died October 17, 1886. They had one daughter, named Mary Nash, who died February 12, 1897. Both were interred in Green Lawn Cemetery, and Nash visited their graves and left flowers before each of his inaugurations. Governor Nash was also buried at Green Lawn.

title: George K. Nash


text:
Talk:Jim Shearer

NPOV dispute
It looks like all biased info was removed, plus no discussion was ever started on why the NPOV tag was added in the first place. Any objections to removing it? AFink (talk) 02:03, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

No early life?
I'm quite sure he was born and raised somewhere. I'm also sure he had a life before becoming a VJ, so how come this article makes no mention of that whatsoever? I don't think he just randomly appeared on Earth and started hosting MTV. -- Wh ip it !  Now whip it good! 23:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

He was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.--71.235.92.16 (talk) 15:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Why?!
Did Jim just stop hosting the Top 20 Video Countdown? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.92.16 (talk) 14:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes. He was replaced by Shannon Coffey and renamed it "The 20". Sadly, the entire countdown show ended in November 2015, with Hotline Bling being the final number one.--204.14.188.246 (talk) 15:35, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Shaler
Shaler Township, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania mentions Jim. No mention is made of Shaler here. Does anyone know if he ever lived there? Ranze (talk) 03:44, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Jim Shearer


text:
User talk:Österreich

Hello "Österreich". First of all, welcome to Wikipedia; I hope you enjoy participating here.

But actually I'm here for a question about the picture Image:Strasser.jpg you uploaded. In the description you write "...that the site allows their pictures to be used". Could you please be more specific on that? For I cannot find any such note on the Website (notice that I corrected the misspelled URL). Did I miss some info there, or have you obtained explicit permission, e.g. by e-mail? If so, for use under what conditions/licence (GFDL, Public Domain, ...)? Please add some info on this to the description. It would be particularly intresting to know if all "Pilot und Luftschiff" pictures are public domain, for there are some more interesting fotos over there. --J.Rohrer 21:58, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Eastern Front
Howdy "Österreich".

Just making sure, you're aware that both Eastern Front (WWI) and Eastern Front (WWII) already exist right? Seems like you're putting alot of effort into a page (mostly set up for disambiguation) that's a bit redundant. (Same goes for the Western Front BTW) Oberiko 17:18, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Image Tagging for Image:Capa.jpg
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License tagging for Image:Mp3-setup.JPG
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Orphaned non-free image (Image:Mp3-setup.JPG)
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title: User talk:Österreich