text:
User talk:Mav/archive 19

Lower Yellowstone Fall.jpg
[[Media:Lower Yellowstone Fall-1200px.JPG]] --> *GREAT* picture. Very nice work. →Raul654 00:22, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks! The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone is truly an awesome sight. Make sure you see it someday. That photo does not even give the place justice. --mav

Main Page Comments
Mav... I did not intentionally remove any comments from any talk page. If I did so inadvertantly, please revert my edit immediately. I apologize if I unintentionally caused any offense whatsoever. -- Seth Ilys 02:58, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * No problem - except others have edited the page. I was pretty sure it was unintentional, but I thought I would ask anyway. --mav

--

Cookies
Dear Mav: I seem to have a problem: I cant log in to wikipedia cause my cookies are not enabled. I dont have this problem, for example, at Ebay.com or Airliners.net, only here.

Since I cant log in, Ill be looking at your page, I need to know if you can answer me how to solve this problem.

Thank you and God bless you!

Sincerely yours Antonio Incognito Martin

Telephone
This is the second time I've been called down on the "don't delete content" charge. Once here, and once on Shirt.

Mav, what is the appropriate action when an article is just bad? (Shirt STILL sucks.) The content I deleted ( a long quote from Munro's "Hero's of the Telegraph" ) is off topic _AND_ inaccurate. Is it ok to dump that stuff to a page like "History of the telephone - Bell's demonstrations" or something like that?

Telephone needs to become the hub of a set of pages not unlike Computer has. I would appriciate some hints then, which is considered better form --Telephone (History)-- or --History of the Telephone--.

I know, this harkens back to the whole "subpages" discussion, but I'm not sure I understand what the concensus decision was.

Thanks Rick Boatright 04:37, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * The consensus decision was to not delete content. If you have an issue with a certain paragraph then move it to the talk page and give your reasoning why the paragraph should be moved, deleted, or how it can be fixed. I noticed your deletion when I looked for a fact that I added to that page but found that it had been removed (the date that Bell first tested his telephone). See Avoiding common mistakes, esp Deleting useful content. --mav

Thanks for the note. I did see the recent work on North Korea, but I want to avoid all DPRK-related articles other than the one on Kim Jong Il. I'm ready to give up on NPOV when it's an uphill battle, which is usually the case when subjects induce strong emotions. Attempting NPOV where it's impossible has gotten me into enough trouble as it is. However, User:Jiang NPOVed this same article recently. Perhaps he'd be willing to clean up the article. His unquestioned anti-Communist credentials make him more or less immune to the McCarthyite tactics that I've been seeing from Adam Carr, among others. 172 08:15, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. I'll take a look at the article this weekend. The problems aren't that bad -- at least yet. But then I happen to agree with the POV of the writer... --mav
 * So do I (barring the tendency to personalize history, which as a grievance is more pedantic than values-based anyway). Same with sex abuse coverage on Catholicism. Most users don't like pedophilia and Stalinism, so there's little pressure for balance. On subjects of this nature, one has to play devil's advocate for NPOV. Since you have almost a saint-like reputation around here, you'd be able to NPOV an article like North Korea without anyone raising a fuss. This isn't the case for me, since it's easier to make me into a straw man. 172 11:04, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Me a saint? My boyfriend got a laugh out of that. ;) Thanks for the note - I hope that my edits will improve the article. --mav

- KEF

Hi - I am new to Wikipedia, so hope I am getting thru to "Heron"? You are the guy who edited the KEF (loudspeaker) page?

Comment - sure, I work for KEF and can see that you have made the article suitable for Wikipedia by removing the questionable "advertorial" stuff....... nice edit, by the way, which I am quite happy with:-))(Although I did try to be as factual and objective as possible). It will be interesting to see how this develops- I suppose at the end of the day, the very open Wikipedia system becomes its own largely sensible "police force"? all the best.... pity you have to deal with flames like from "Lord Kenneth"- waste of time! --81.105.54.46 10:35, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes - Wikipedia does take care of itself - at least in time. I haven't had to deal with his lordship lately, but thanks for the note. :) --mav

North Korea
Hi, Mav: all power to you for your intention to edit the North Korea article for NPOV. You have my best wishes. North Korea isn't even the most controversial Korea-related article, though, so after you're done, maybe you can try neutralizing Dispute over the name Sea of Japan.... Of course, you may not want to get involved in that debate in the first place. My own moderately pro-Korean bias shows through in my edits to that article, and many more edits by people on both sides of the debate have made an utter mess of the article. --Sewing 18:30, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I wish I knew enough about the dispute over the name Sea of Japan to help... Thanks for the note though. --mav

Bill OReilly1.jpg
Hi, it seems that Image:Bill OReilly1.jpg didn't upload properly. Could you try it again? It's currently listed on IFD for having no content. silsor 18:39, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * I deleted that image from my computer weeks ago. See the top of the village pump. --mav

Japanese place names
A couple of Wikipedians have taken it upon themselves to rename Hiroshima to Hiroshima, Hiroshima, and do likewise for every other Japanese city. Please help me beat some sense into them by voting at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japanese districts and municipalites. -- Sekicho 22:48, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * Done. Hiroshima, Hiroshima is very odd. --mav

Metric
Hi Mav, mostly I do just add metric measures, and leave the non-metric in brackets. The few cases where I remove the non-metric, are because I know for definite that the non-metric figure given is incorrect (e.g. a species of tree cited as reaching 40 feet, but I know it reaches 30m or more); in these cases I put the correct figure in metric, and can't be bothered with calculating new non-metric figures for a 5% reactionary minority. - MPF 21:21, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC) See it was Mt Whitney you're concerned about - for the summit altitude, I used the exact conversion figure (x 0.3048), so there aren't any conversion, rounding and significant figure errors; for the height above Owens Valley, I used the exact figure (summit altitude minus Owens Lake bed altitude, off my US Geol. Survey California maps), so it is actually a lot more accurate than the "2 miles" previously given (it was me who added the 'just over') - MPF 21:31, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * OK - carry on then. Just please make those type of notes in edit summaries - we have a problem with people converting units one way or the other and then back again (thus corrupting the data). --mav

 * OK, will do! MPF 21:40, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Mount Tambora
I am trying to fill in a Selected Anniversary for April 10; in so doing, I found the Mount Tambora article which currently states that April 10 was the climactic day when the volcano blew its top. However, April 15 also is credited as the big day. Based on the page history, April 10 appears to be the consensus. If there are no objections, I would like to cite this day in Selected anniversaries. Ancheta Wis 13:19, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC) Mav, sorry for the misunderstanding on the number of allowed events per day.

 * First - Thanks for the help! :) Second - Volcanic eruptions are tricky since they last days to weeks and often obscure the damage they cause until literally the dust (well ash) settles. But it does appear that the most violent stage of the eruption occurred sometime between April 10th and April 15th with April 12th being the day I could find the most references for (at least twice as many as any other day in the period - there were a great many references to the eruption starting on April 5th). I say we should go with that and fix all the affected articles. Third - No problem about the misunderstanding (I only recently changed that rule to allow more). --mav

Kim Jong-il
Hi Mav. I'm not saying that you, personally, need to fix this but someone should and I figure you will know who. User:Adam_Carr and User:172 are slugging it out over at Kim Jong-il. User:Sekicho is valiantly trying to write a compromise, but to little avail. HELP - Gaz 13:33, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Yep - that is an ugly edit war. I've protected Kim Jong-il but do need to go to bed. I'll see if I can spare an hour or two in the next few days to try to figure this issue out. --mav

172 seems to have gone right over the edge today. I don't know whether he is bad enough to try to have him banned, but he is a serious threat to this project because he drives away people who want to write serious articles without dealing with his ridiculous propaganda. Adam 13:43, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * He's right. I have gone right over the edge today: I'm emulating his behavior! For once I've started to treat him like he's been treating other users for months. Adam, for example, charges me with Stalinism for removing a sentence like the following:

 * "Although attempts by the Clinton administration in the U.S. and by Kim Dae-jung in South Korea to settle the issues in dispute between the DPRK on the one hand and the U.S. and South Korea on the other hand had clearly failed, it did not seem that the U.S. or South Korea had any plans to remove the DPRK regime by force."

 * So, why not try fighting demagoguery with demagoguery for once? When he calls me a Stalinist, I'll call him a fascist. When he calls me an apologist, I'll charge him with McCarthyism. It's great to see Adam on the defensive finally. Usually he acts like a tough guy, ridiculing other users for seeking mediation amid his abuse. But now, it's Adam who's frightened for once because I'm the first user to see him for what he is and finally stand up to his months of abusing scores of other users, who usually cannot withstand his abuse as well as I can. 172 14:26, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Standard
When you are contrasting 'Standard' and 'Metric' what do you mean? I'm very confused about this, as in 90% of the world, they are the same. Perhaps you mean US customary? Morwen 13:50, Mar 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * 95%, actually!

 * US customary = standard in US, yes. --mav
 * LOL. Still at it, eh?-SV
 * Thought so. Please bear in mind that this is an international encyclopedia.     Telling non-US editors to use 'standard' units is likely to cause confusion or offence.  I quite appreciate the logic of keeping them in the original unit first, then the converted unit. Morwen 13:54, Mar 7, 2004 (UTC)

 * I know that. We just call US customary units standard rather exclusively here. I will add a 'US' in front from now on. --mav

Copy from User talk:MPF - As a general rule, US topics should have standard units first (unless the measurements were made in metric). --mav
 * Metric is standard, imperial isn't! MPF 15:33, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I should have said US standard. --mav

 * Er, what is "US standard"?? - I understand that the metric system is the only measurement system that has ever been formally approved by the US Congress in legislation. The imperial system is of course in widespread popular use, but apparently has no legal status (so I am told by someone in the US!).
 * Looking on topozone, the USGS 1:25,000 scale maps use metres for the benchmark altitudes: Mount Whitney 4416.9m :-) - MPF 21:36, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * And yet all the road signs I see, bolts I screw, and rulers I use are based on English units (which are called "standard" in the U.S.). My source used US standard, so that is what I put into the article (which is a US topic, BTW). Just to be clear, as a scientist I do prefer SI units over US customary, but I am writing on US topics so I conform to the spirit of US/British convention we have (respect the spelling and date format you see in articles unless that format is counter to the subject - using US spelling on a British topic, for example). --mav

User talk:Marcusvox
SVtalk 14:06, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * "I hate Fox News and much prefer NPR. Is that M for multiple or for Mav? ;) Anyway, we can't say that Reagan was a terrorist since very few, if any people say that other than in arguments over the use of the term "terrorist.""
 * NPR/Fox - It often does'nt matter. "Cant say that Regan was a terrorist?" Well, forgetting what we can or can't do, isnt the statement based in fact? What exactly are we free to say in America then, if it's not the facts? I generally don't expect much in the way of a thoughful response Mav, but I understand its due the limits on your time, not your intellect. ;) -SVtalk 14:54, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you should read our NPOV policy - it is not our job to say that one set of disputed facts is correct or not and thus make a conclusion based on that (Reagan did x and y, x and y are considered to be terrorist acts, ergo Reagan is a terrorist!), but to say what the major views on a subject are. Extremely few people of note (if that) seriously call Reagan a terrorist outside of these pedantic and time-wasting type of arguments over the use of the term. I'm off to bed. --mav

 * LOL - Yes, its too early to really get down with wiki yet. But when you wake up, please note you're own various (adjective) contradictions of logic —which in the end, elimiate any NPOV use of the term "terrorism." Which is my point (and I think Erik raised the issue a while back...) So, in setting new heights for NPOV, lets you and I, each of us dogmatists in our own right, eliminate the use of "terrorist" on the wikipedia entirely, unless its contianed as a POV in itself. Gutensleepin,' -STEVE

 * The fact that a great many people call or think of a person as a terrorist, if true, is a fact that we should report. Keep Wikipedia's articles below 451° F. Night, day, morning, whatever... --mav

Off-topic criticism of User:Maveric149 by User:NetEsq moved from User talk:EntmootsOfTrolls/ban:

''<< If you think that that type of activity should be encouraged by allowing him to continue to edit, then you have some emotional problems that need to be examined by a professional. So the only thing that is distasteful here is your accusation that the 142.177 hard ban is not justified. >>'' This comment, made by Maveric149 to GrahamN, is way out of line. I have worked with emotionally and mentally disturbed children in a professional setting, and I am extremely offended by the notion that anyone's opinions should be dismissed by an appeal to the allegation that said person is emotionally or mentally disturbed. Other things being equal, such allegations have no place in scholarly discourse, as such allegations are an insidious and subtle way of launching a personal attack. -- NetEsq 00:00, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Hello Mav. I've been away for a while, and I've only just seen this.  I disagree with NetEsq.  I was not offended, and did not interpret it as a personal attack.  GrahamN 04:58, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I thought the guy was already blocked? I guess I should check the regular RC more often... --mav

 * Pardon? What's a "regular RC"?  All I meant was that, unlike NetEsq, I don't think it is offensive to say that if a person thought it was OK to make death threats then they would need their head examined.  Of course they would.  That's all.  Hope you are well.  GrahamN 05:57, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Section editing is messed up on this page - that response was for the message below. --mav

sorry to bother you...Fire Department Alert
But we're having trouble tonight with a vandal, see Block log. Some suspect it is the same user as User:Bird....if you have any way to help us stop this individual, it would be much appreciated. We are in IRC. Kingturtle 07:46, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I guess I should check the regular RC more often... --mav

re your edit to hitler  it should be  "and also". american youths have a natural sense of internal conflict. always be wary please of your conjuctions, usually "and also" is meant, BUT many people feel the need to spice up the sentance like you did.

I just spotted your vote on my proposal to give sysops the power to hand out 24 hour bans for revert wars. Could you mention it on the mailing list please? I'm not subscribed.... I've linked to it on the village pump, current polls and community portal, so I think I've covered all the necessary wikipedia places. :) fabiform | talk 09:25, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Sure. --mav

 * Cheers. :)  I've left a few comments on talk:yellowstone park, I think it's a good article.  I've also played around with one of your photographs, of the north gate, to try to bring out the gate against the bright sky (300px, 750px).  Revert at will of course.  fabiform | talk 22:09, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Mexicana de Aviacion photo
Dear Mav: Hello! Go to the Mexicana de Aviacion page and see what I did. I tried mightly to put a photo of a jetliner of the airline there, and all I got was what is there. I already have permission from Jorge Rocafort to use the photo. I was wondering if you could help me put the photo in the main article. I copied all the instructions on the upload page, put together commands, erased a few dots, I did everything to try to see if the photo came on the article and all I got is what you will see. I hope you or someone can help!

Thank you, and God bless you!

Sincerely yours, Antonio Sneaky Snaeky Martin

 * Er? I see this photo: [[Image::MexicanaDC10.jpg]] as a thumbnail. --mav

Hey Mav: Yeah somebody else fixed the photo and now its there. I wonder if my computer has a problem, I can not transport files to disks or the internet. Anyways, the only problem now is that Mr. Jorge Rocafort was not credited with the copyright, the photo has no photo history page. How do I do that or do you know anyone who can do that for me outside you and Arpingstone? I mean I dont want to overload you 2 with work.

Thanks and God bless you!

Sincerely yours, Antonio Funaholic Martin

 * There was an extra colon. Fixed. Exit Image:MexicanaDC10.jpg. --mav

Passing this around... I made a general topics sidebar for biology - at Mediawiki:biology - use tag to put it on articles as needed. Sub-field article sidebars like psychology can be worked on as well. - SV (talk) 18:13, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

RfC
Thanks, it's nice to know my efforts are appreciated. I agree the page probably needs a steward, but I'm not sure that I really want the job. I much prefer to tackle discrete projects as I find them, rather than camp out in one place to monitor things (for example, I avoid adding pages to my watchlist if at all possible). But I do periodically revisit things to see what has become of my handiwork, and certainly I'll try to prevent RfC from degenerating into the state its predecessors were in. --Michael Snow 17:49, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

bighorn sheep
Excellent and informative page on desert bighorn sheep! One thing that struck me was that the USGS guy doesn't agree with the State of California about the definition of the subspecies. I've heard the Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep are a separate subspecies, which is why California protects them. See, e.g.,. I need to do more research in order to understand this, myself. Subspecies definition may be difficult to NPOV correctly. -- hike395

 * Found a more thorough (less press-release-y) explanation, at page 2 of . According to Wehausen and Ramey (2000), there is a species O. c. californiana that is only limited to the Sierra Nevada. So, the figure from the USGS may be out of date. That makes 4 real subspecies, I think... -- hike395 13:04, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Cool - thanks for taking a look. --mav

Lead sections
Mav, we need to agree on the length of the lead sections. I favor a maximum of two paragraphs. Is there a place to talk about this already?—Eloquence 21:52, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia talk:News style. Paragraphs can be fairly long, but I would still put the range in 2-3 good-sized paras. --mav

 * Now there's Lead section, also linked from the MoS. Let me know if you have any objections.—Eloquence 22:42, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for creating that! I tweaked it a bit. --mav

Past tense
Oy. There are so many votes floating around I lose track of what I've voted on and what I've voted. RickK | Talk 23:13, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * No biggie - February, March and the first part of April are now consistently in the past tense. --mav

Media Wiki Cults
Hello Maveric149,

I adapted the Media wiki cults I hope you find it okay now and that you reconsider and change your comments from neutral to keep on Vote for deletion of media wiki

It is a complicated but important subject and I think the Media Wiki cults helps people to understand it. Andries 20:03, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Better - it can be improved more later. I changed my vote to keep. --mav

Flag of Canada
Shouldn't the Flag of Canada be consistent with Dannebrog, Tricolore, Union Jack? The page is about the flag, so I would make it big. --Henrygb 03:16, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Other way around. Fixed. See Image use policy. If you see more like that, then please fix them. --mav

 * No - if you are keen, you could start with Gallery of national flags and click on the "Flag of" links. Image use policy says "Scale and crop images to a size appropriate for the article": the flag pages are big versions; the small versions appear in the country pages. --Henrygb 09:51, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * 300 px is half the screen and the un-thumbed image completely dominates the article. Images are only part of the article - thus they should not dominate them. I'll take care of all the other countries this weekend. --mav

 * I think it would be polite to discuss this with people who set up all the flag pages first. A page about a flag should be dominated by the flag itself. --Henrygb 10:24, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * No it should not - it should be dominated with text about the subject. Just like every other article here. The only reason why the flags dominated those articles before is due to the fact that the images are so hig and until recently is has been a real pain to create thumbnails. Now that this is easy, those articles should be converted. --mav

All flags done. --mav

Request
Dear mav, i am sorry to abuse your time, but i need your help. The custom messages for copyright infringements are not good. They must include a link to PAGE NAME/Temp, otherwise is a mess to check if the copyvio was rewritten. The previous boilerplate was much better. Can you do this, or explain me out to do it? I tried but i'm afraid of messing things up. Cheers, Muriel 12:31, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Hi Muriel, mav apologies for barging onto your talk page, but I happened to read this and it seemed like a general request! Note the custom messages do not take parameters (not yet anyway) thus the custom message cannot include any page specific information such as where the copyvio came from and the name of the correct temp page to right at. This could be solved by splitting the copyvio custom messages into 3 parts instead of 2 and inserting the temp link between parts 2 and 3. I have to question whether it's worth effort in this case - we don't have to use msgs: at every possible opportunity. I am going to use copy and paste boilerplate for the time being. We can use msgs again when they support parameters. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 16:27, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for barging in! :) --mav

 * Thanks Pete and mav for the talk page. It would be indeed more practical to use the older boilerplate. Cheers, Muriel 08:55, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hey Mav. The MGM Lion screenshot image you uploaded to is broken due to what someone described as the "January Gap". Can you re-upload it? The MGM article has an ugly broken image link in it. Thanks :) - Mark 16:18, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Sadly I deleted the image right after I uploaded it. For now it is commented out. --mav

You win
If you recall our little argument about the policy for updating the Main Page, you may be amused to know that I'm now policing the rule too. See the page history for Template:Itn. --Michael Snow 23:40, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * My evil plan is working! Muwahaha! ;) --mav

Daft ideas
Probably my daft idea. Originally had it a Presidential campaign of John Kerry, but then someone had to go and add the damn year--because John Kerry has had so many presidential campaigns we have to distiguish between, you know? Grr. At that point came the swap, because I think the guy's name is more important that the year, although some would disagree, I'm sure, because it's the goddamn internet and that's what we do here. So, I am here to announce: WikiProject POTUS Campaigns

 * Cool - we can work on a better standard there. --mav

Bad Images
Image:Cheers1.jpg seems to be missing. Should it be removed from the article or replaced? --Spikey 03:07, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Comment it out. It should be fixed soon. --mav

Image:Conan OBrien1.jpg is also missing; I commented it out too. Is this a trend? :) --Spikey 23:51, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
Hi Mav, some goofball (who didn't bother to log in) restored the copyright violation at Syro-Malabar Catholic Church. There was a previous stub article that I restored, but the copyvio text is viewable in the history. Can that copy be deleted from the history with a minimum of fuss? TIA -- llywrch 06:19, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Fixed. --mav

Image thumbnails
Hiya. I noticed your page User:Maveric149/Images - Yellowstone National Park. Would you like to use the new thumbnail feature for them, and list the manually-created thumbnails on Images for deletion? Thanks if you do. — Timwi 03:06, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I already plan to do that - busy now though. --mav

Unknown yellow flower
Hi. While browsing your vastly impressive contributions, I noticed this sweet little thing. I felt sorry for its anonymity, so I did some research. I'm fairly sure it's a "yellow cup" or "golden evening primrose" (Camissonia brevipes) of the evening primrose family, Onagraceae. I came to this conclusion based on comparisons with and. It's reportedly common in the Death Valley area.

I'm no botanist, however, so there's always that smidge of uncertainty. So, I'll leave any caption alterations to your discretion. :) Cheers, -- Hadal 07:35, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you! :) For a while I was pretty sure it was a golden evening primrose too but the really high res photo I have of it shows fuzzy leaves and the golden evening primrose example photos I have seen did not have that. But everything else looks to be in order... Perhaps the angle and lighting conditions I shot under made very hard to see features stand out. --mav

 * You're welcome! :) I wondered about the leaves too; but the angle and lighting are (pleasingly!) unusual, so I agree with your hypothesis. It's also the only yellow flower listed among the Plants of Death Valley with even a passing resemblance to the specimen in your photo. That's not to say it couldn't be an as yet unlisted species/variety, but I'm satisfied. :) -- Hadal 08:19, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Alexa Top 50 Reference sits
I wrote Alexa today; that's all that was necessary. They were most polite and said we should be on their list "within days". +sj+ 05:25, 2004 Mar 23 (UTC)

 * Sweet! :) --mav

Featured articles
For what it's worth, I wanted to let you know I appriciate the effort and trouble you're going through to keep only properly approved articles at Featured articles. If its any support, I'd oppose the Origins of the Civil War article, if I could ever bring myself to read all 34 (in my copy of MS word) pages of text. Gentgeen

 * Thanks for the support. BTW, you don't have to read it to note that the article is too long and thus violates our page size guideline. --mav

Doomed numbers?
Dear Mav: Hi! I had to express this with someone. Its not really related to wikipedia but reading wikipedia articles, I found out three fatal airline crashes with the number 191 on them, American Airlines Flight 191, Delta Airlines Flight 191 and Prinair Flight 191. This combined with the 911 air tragedies makes me think that the numbers nine + two ones in a flight could be doomed. What do you think? Mystery legend on the making? Perhaps some day we might see a are the flights with numbers 9,1 and 1 in any combination doomed? on a future remake of Unsolved Mysteries? hehe...you gotta admit, thats interesting to think about.

Oh and congratulations on going back to college full time again. I wish I could do that!

God bless! Sincerely yours, Antonio Unsolved Mystery Martin

 * Interesting, but almost certainly just a coincidence. Even so, I will not get on any flight with a 9 and two 1s. Thanks for possibly saving my life. ;) --mav

Mercury
Maveric, I do not think the mercury page should be rewritten to play-down the dangers of mercury. There has not been any news media exaggeration of the risk that I know of. It is one of the most toxic things in existance. There are some people who work in dentistry who completely reject that it can be harmful (that editor who rewrote it may be one of those). Crusadeonilliteracy 09:03, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * It still says that mercury is highly toxic, no? As with most elements, the effects of different compounds/salts and with the elemental form will differ. --mav

 * Actually, I'm a chemistry minor and have discussed this topic at length with some of the professors at my college. Technically speaking, elemental mercury is harmless. Only it's compounds, more specifically its ions, are dangerous. However, elemental mercury *IS* converted to organic compounds inside of living organisms. Hence, its danger.
 * Darrien 03:24, 2004 Mar 25 (UTC)

 * but it was rewritten to make it sound far less toxic, and more in league with kitchen cleaner rather than radium and uranium. I think it was fine the way it was before Crusadeonilliteracy

 * It says that some compounds are so toxic as to cause death quickly and with very low doses. The hand waving version made it sound like anything with mercury in it at all was going to kill you. That is over-simplified and not really correct. --mav

 * As someone with mercury poisoning, I do not consider it hand waving. It really is as toxic as the hand wavers make it out to be.

 * How were you poisoned? Was it constant long term exposure to elemental mercury, or was it mercury salts/compounds?
 * Darrien 03:24, 2004 Mar 25 (UTC)

Colors of Chemicals
Don't just blindly revert articles. I pulled out several duplicate entries and made other changes. The reason I pulled the intro was that I don't think that it was particularly well written. It read like a 6th grade remedial chemistry text, not an encyclopedia. I'm of the mindset "Do it right or don't do it at all". Darrien 03:24, 2004 Mar 25 (UTC)

 * I'm of the mindset of leaving things as they are and they will get improved in time. If the text is too bad for that, then move it to the talk page and ask for it to be improved before it is put back in. But removing text like that is a Wikipedia faux pas. --mav

 * Faux pas or not, you still shouldn't blindly revert pages. Especially when the summary outlines other changes that shouldn't be reverted.

 * Such a large amount of text was removed I assumed the other edits were also bad. I see now that I was wrong about the other edits. But violating our faux pas list will very often be responded to by reverts since that is almost always the most appropriate thing to do. For you at least, I will be more careful in the future now that I know you are reasonable. --mav

July 2002 date redirects
It is no longer July 2002. A few date links, e.g. July 16, 2002 you created redirects to current events. I corrected a few, but there are still some left. Please fix the rest to redirect to July 2002 instead. --Jiang 06:51, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Wow - that was a long time ago and IIRC was before we converted the current events archive into {month} {year} pages. Back then the sidebar had a link to the current day instead of to current events. So I made some redirects. On my mental ToDo list. --mav

- Posterity should recall our exploits forever at Lamest edit wars ever - we've earned it. But doesn't this make you nostalgic for the days when we saw edit wars like "User talk:EntmootsOfTrolls/on applying Sharia to RK?" 172 10:54, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

RfC again
User:GrazingshipIV seems persistent about listing users on RfC without following the 2-people-contacting-on-the-talk-page guideline. I've removed another one, but this guy seems to be picking up vendettas against people who criticize him. I've added this conduct to his own listing on RfC, and I'm going to alert him to the breach of the guideline, at the risk of getting added to his hit list. I'll try to monitor RfC in case he continues, but it would be nice to have your help. If he keeps this stuff up, I'm inclined to conclude that he's a troll. --Michael Snow 20:10, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, he's promised to follow the guideline. But given the amount of trouble he's gotten into in a short period, I still have all kinds of alarms going off in my head. --Michael Snow 21:18, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'll keep an eye on the RfC page. --mav

Rest assured gents, there is no 'hit list' and I have no vendettas-well at least online. I am not a troll, please visit my user page and note my contributions. I plan on keeping a low profile after the rather explosive situation that occured. And I am pretty sure I am not the only one to have a problem with Rickk and the junta ;) cheers. GrazingshipIV 05:30, Mar 29, 2004 (UTC)

Oh no - not again
For the main page purge value I set - "Oh no - not again" - is a reference to what most people (myself included) consider the funniest part of the hithiker's guide series. I googled for it and here's the quote (sorry if this is unduly long, but it's hilarious) →Raul654 00:42, Mar 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * Another thing that got forgotten was the fact that against all probability a sperm whale had suddenly been called into existance several miles above the planet.
 * And since this is not a naturally tenable position for a whale, this poor innocent creature had very little time to come to terms with its identity as a whale before it then had to come to terms with not being a whale any more.
 * This is a complete record of its thought from the moment it began its life till the moment it ended it.

 * Ah....! What's happening? it thought.
 * Er, excuse me, who am I?
 * Hello?
 * Why am I here? What's my purpose in life?
 * What do I mean by who am I?
 * Calm down, get a grip now...oh! this is an interesting sensation, what is it? It's a sort of...yawning, tingling sensation in my...my...well, I suppose I'd better start finding names for things if I want to make any headway in what for the sake of what I shall call and argument I shall call the world, so let's call it my stomach.
 * Good. Ooooh, it's getting quite strong.  And hey, what about this whistling roaring sound going past what I'm suddenly going to call my head? Perhaps I'll call that...wind!  Is that a good name? It'll do...perhaps I can find a better name for it later when I've found out what it's for.  It must be something very important because there certainly seems to be a hell of a lot of it.  Hey! What's this thing? This...let's call it a tail--yeah, tail.  Hey! I can really trash it about pretty good, can't I? Wow! Wow! That feels great! Doesn't seem to acheive very much but I'll probably find out what it's for later on.  Now, have I build up any coherent picture of things yet?
 * No.
 * Never mind, hey, this is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation...
 * Or is it the wind?
 * There's really alot of that now, isn't there?
 * And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming toward me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide-sounding name like...ow...ound...round...ground! That's it! That's a good name--ground!
 * I wonder if it will be friends with me?

 * And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

 * Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as if fell was "Oh no, not again". Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now.

 * Srange - yet oddly funny. :)

KR
Well, Hanpuk (aka...) seems to have desisted after your last revert, although I had to comb through the Pol Pot article. I wrote as conciliatory a note as I could muster on Talk:Khmer Rouge. But, most likely a "new" user will show up in a few days and attempt the same changes. -- VV 08:08, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

--- Well, I guess the next place to take this matter is the Requests for de-adminship page. The page protection of Featured articles was a blantant attempt to arbitrate in favor of one side over another in a two-way edit war. If the page is going to remain protected, either we'll both be amenable to a compromise protected page, or the this argument will really become one over de-sysoping. 172 19:16, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Requests for comment/172
Please take a moment to express your thoughts on this page, if you have the time. Sam Spade 19:42, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * In case you're curious what's going on in RfC/VeryVerily, in particular why 172 is saying things such as "unacceptable", it's all some childish game of copy-cat. This is just him copying this, the "reference" at the top is a word-for-word copy of the text on /172, the listing for me on RfC is identical to his, and if you look at the page history for W:Rfc, his edit summary about "Reinstating an outside party's..." is just copying Michael Snow's edit summary (inapplicable, since he is not an outside party).  Also, he put messages such as this on people's user pages, matching exactly what Sam just wrote above to you (and to others). -- VV 07:40, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

---

Could you want to e-mail me your ideas regarding the article? I have to go offline soon. I know that you're dying to work on this article, but why not work on some of the other articles in the US history series before we get to origins? Some of the articles are skeletons at best. 172 21:17, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm at work now, but will send you an email later (5 hours or so). --mav

ARRRGGH, they ARE making RfC about as bad as CbU was. Thanks for your intervention, I don't have time to do much right now but I'll look into it tomorrow. --Michael Snow 07:33, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

RfC user conduct dispute template
It's an interesting idea. I have an assortment of reactions, both to your proposal and the general problem: By the way, I quote your reaction to the poll attempted on Requests for comment/Lir, "Also, up till now, polls were used for article content disputes. We should act slowly on extending their application to user conduct disputes." I don't mean to use your words against you - if you believe this is the place to extend, I respect that - but I feel that quickpolls are as far as we should extend at this time. Otherwise, polls should only be for content and policy issues.
 * 1) I like the Complaint/Response/Outside views format of the template. Adding some structure like this could force people to be more disciplined in using the dispute resolution process.
 * 2) However, in practice I'm skeptical about whether people will actually stick to the format, and I doubt anybody wants the job of enforcing its use.
 * 3) I think we definitely need some kind of barrier to entry against people who want to air every complaint they have about other users.
 * 4) Unfortunately, I'm not sure the present barrier (two people contacting the user in question) is working very well, for these reasons:
 * 5) Easily circumvented, either by bringing in sock puppets, or by "recruiting" people to get someone listed on RfC.
 * 6) Difficult to enforce in terms of requiring any real effort to resolve the dispute. Basically, if any two people have mentioned the problem, it gets on, even if there's no dialogue about it. It's working like a quota you have to fill, hence the recruiting phenomenon - "Hey, do me a favor and post a complaint on X's user talk page so we can list him on RfC" without actually discussing the problem or even giving X a chance to respond.
 * 7) I strongly dislike the idea of using polls in this context, in any form. I can see the value of quickpolls in more urgent situations, but otherwise polls about individual users are a very bad idea.
 * 8) A 'poll' could easily amount to "Michael Snow is a troll - Support, Oppose, Neutral". I don't think this has any constructive result.
 * 9) Too many people treat polls as binding, or nearly so, and I don't think we can afford to create that impression. Nothing is binding for these problems except arbitration.
 * 10) I don't like the idea of making "findings of fact" at this stage of the process.
 * 11) In general, I think polls and poll results would mostly turn into a club for the user's enemies to beat him over the head with.
 * 12) Citing applicable policies is good, and citing evidence is even better. I think if you can't provide links to examples of the problem, the page probably should not go up.
 * 13) I would not segregate discussion to a talk page. We're already creating subpages, and the whole idea of requesting comment is to invite discussion.

I'm still racking my brain for ideas on how to create a better barrier to entry, and encourage people to resolve more of their disputes privately. If I think of anything, I'll let you know. --Michael Snow 22:18, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Have you seen the dispute page at Requests for comment/Example user/Page status disputed? Would that not be enough to stem the flow of trivial complaints? If not, we could make that a prerequisite for listing in the first place. We could also require that at least a majority of users of at least 5 valid (non-sock puppet) users must vote on whether or not to have an RfC page on another user. I think that poll after the first week is very important and would be useful if the questions I proposed are used instead of "is this user a troll" type questions. We could explicitly forbid those types of questions from being asked in a poll. Edits to the example pages are most welcome, BTW. --mav

 * Yes, I've seen the dispute page. I may not have been clear, but I would lean toward a prerequisite along those lines. Perhaps by merging that with the Complaint/Response section on the regular page. And if the existence of the page is still disputed, a poll on its existence could be useful.

 * I don't think you'll be able to overcome my objection to other polls, though. Even sticking to the example you provided, it leads to votes about whether to sanction the user and what sanctions to impose, when there's no authority for the RfC process to impose anything. We'd have to have a poll on whether it can. Also, if the case ends up in arbitration, you'd probably have a lot of people demanding that the arbitrators accept the poll results on whether there's been a violation. --Michael Snow 23:01, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * OK - I've commented the poll section out for now. We can deal with the other issues in time. Best to move slowly. --mav 23:23, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Good call. Whether polls are desirable or not, they're a separate feature that can be added in later. The rest of the process doesn't depend on whether we go in that direction. --Michael Snow 23:49, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

--- Sorry for the tone of my comments on Talk:Cold War the other day. 172 22:25, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Apology accepted. I'm sorry I complained instead of trying to perform consensus editing. But I've been greatly hampered by the fact that the computer I'm editing from (my Mom's since I am house sitting) sucks and makes anything but minor editing fairly difficult. --mav

- Hi Mav. Thanks for your note in Talk:Iran. I verified it and indeed it seems that April 1 is the official day of the establishment of IRI and not some kind of a prank. --K1 04:31, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * NP. :) --mav

Mav, a Talk:May 19 event needs a home article, or I'll have to delete it before the display date. Any suggestions? Thank you. Ancheta Wis 13:25, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC) It was too fascinating not to include, but I need to place the event in some article. Where should this question go, if you don't have time to respond. ... Even though logic says this is an undocumented ash cloud from a volcanic eruption, I have decided to push the event to the talk page of May 19 Selected Anniversaries, and let it lie there awhile until an article pops up which can serve as a home for the event. Ancheta Wis 17:40, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC) No need to respond, Thanks.

 * Yeah - it is interesting but I don't know of any article where it could go. I'm sure one will show up sooner or later. --mav

Message
I was hopeing you would consider removing your complaint against me in the user comment section now that the dispute about creating pages incorrectly has been worked out between micheal snow and myself. I was not aware that was the improper use of such a page but having been so informed I shall not engage in such behavior again. I would henceforth like you to withdraw your current complaint and take down the page as my conflict would then be only with Rickk. thanks. GrazingshipIV 23:45, Mar 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * What page? Where is my complaint? Sorry, but I comment on a great many things every day. --mav

 * Mav, I think this is simply because on his RfC page, I cited that he had listed two RfC pages for other users without following the process (see above, at RfC again). I mentioned you because you had removed one of the listings. As far as we're concerned, his issue is really with RickK. Anyway, I told GrazingshipIV I would archive the dispute if there's no further activity on it for a little while. --Michael Snow 02:43, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Cool - thanks. --mav

Madness, RFC style
So how is this going to be handled? You said something about delisting pages without support. As requested, I enumerated my complaints on Requests for comment/172/Page status disputed, and so have others. I don't know what this process will accomplish, of course; 172 dismissed it as "grade school nonsense" (contrasted with his behavior?). Meanwhile, Requests for comment/VeryVerily/Page status disputed was fairly underpopulated, although now Richardchilton is using his army of sock puppets to register complaints. None, however, are substantiated; the only specific edit he ever mentions for his case is the French Communist Party one, which wouldn't be hard for me to explain. Of course, 172 is with him all the way. Anyway, I'd like to know where this is all going. Nowhere? -- VV 06:02, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm inclined to de-list both, but don't have time to argue my case right now. --mav

title: User talk:Mav/archive 19


text:
The Ugly Duckling (play)

The Ugly Duckling is a one-act play by A.A. Milne written c. 1941.

Plot
The king and queen are worried because their daughter, Princess Camilla, is very plain, or rather appears to be plain because of a spell put on her at birth. The spell says that only the eyes of true love will reveal her beauty. Her parents come up with a plan to marry her to a prince from a far-away land who is unaware of what she looks like. They force Camilla to trade places with her beautiful but silly maid, Dulcibella, before the prince arrives.

However, Prince Simon has also disguised himself as his servant Carlo, and dressed Carlo up as the prince because he felt he wasn't handsome enough. Both the pretend prince and princess are insanely dull-witted, which just adds to the entertainment. Before the marriage of the two servants dressed as royalty, the real prince meets the real princess and they reveal their identity and begin to understand each other.

Prince Simon tells Princess Camilla that she is very beautiful, although all other princes have found her to be hideously ugly. Then the princess reveals that she was given a gift from her great aunt that would make everyone ignorant of her real beauty, so that she wouldn't grow up vain – until the day she met her one true love. The play ends with a riddle, required to be answered correctly by the prince before he can wed the princess.

What is it which has four legs and mews like a cat? — The Chancellor

Despite the fact that Carlo, the mock-prince, was given the correct answer beforehand, he answers incorrectly. The answer clearly should have been "cat", but Carlo's answer was "dog". Yet with some quick thinking from Prince Simon, Carlo gets all the answer right because Simon claims that what is referred to in this country as "cat" is referred to as "dog" in the mock-prince's country.

"In our country, we have an animal to which we have given the name “dog,” or, in the local dialect of the more mountainous districts, “doggie.” It sits by the fireside and purrs. — The Prince"

At the very end, the king wonders why Princess Camilla is suddenly beautiful when the audience can see that it is because of the blessing–curse coming to fruition—Camilla has found her true love, the first one to whom she appears lovely.

Adaptations
The Fall 2009 issue of the University of San Francisco literary journal Switchback features a story by Charles Haddox, "The Ugly Duckling", about a girl who has her own ugly duckling experience after being chosen to play the role of Princess Camilla in her junior high school's production of the play.

In 1985 "The Ugly Duckling" was adapted by Simon Johnston for two actors and a music trio ( www.simonjohnston.ca ). It was commissioned by Laura Schlessinger, artistic director of Music Mosaic (The New Concert Theatre Society) based in Canmore Alberta. Allan Bell composed the music and Bev Ross wrote the libretto. The production, directed by Simon Johnston, featured knee-high puppets designed and constructed by Felix Mirbt of Sutton, Quebec. Karen Skidmore and Patrick Meschukuleit performed all the roles, songs and puppet manipulation.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: The Ugly Duckling (play)


text:
Talk:NBA All-Star Game

How 'bout changing host team to arena? (ie Boston Garden instead of Boston Celtics)
 * --Rj 03:27, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

individual articles?
should there be individual articles for each all-star game? Gflores Talk 02:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think so. I think a solid main article would be needed first. gurulegend 04:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

why hasnt Chicago hosted the allstar game since 1988 while Los Angeles has hosted it twice, Houston is gonna host it for a third time before Chicago hosts it again and New Orleans will have hosted it twice before Chicago gets another chance? Why is the league with its East Coast bias being biased against Chicago? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.44.30 (talk) 06:19, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

2009 All-star game
I cannot find a source that says that the 2009 All-star game venue has been chosen. Anybody else???

Roodog2k 20:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I read that San Juan,Puerto Rico was interested in hosting the All-Star game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.166.121.219 (talk • contribs)

1999 NBA All Star Game
was it etiher scheduled or not scheduled at that time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.220.220 (talk) 03:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Logo's
Most of the games prior to 2003 need their logos on their pages.--Cooly123 23:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cooly123 (talk • contribs)

2013 all-star game
An IP user added that the 2013 game is in Toronto without a reference. I can't find anything in the news saying that Toronto was picked to host the game, so I don't think this has been officially announced. Would anyone object to removing that line of the table? AnandJRao (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed. Thanks— Chris! c / t 21:40, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

2015 NBA All-Star Game
Can an administrator please delete the 2015 NBA All-Star Game redirect on this page?

Robert (talk) 04:59, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Mention of a few more things in the prose
I think it's worth mentioning that All-Star Games have far fewer personal fouls than normal NBA games, that both teams have scored at least 100 points in every All-Star Game since 1974, and that both teams have scored 120 points each of the last nine games. I made an edit here to that effect, but was reverted. Can I get a consensus to add my language back? p b  p  14:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm okay with mentioning recent trends and criticism in the article, perhaps in the history section or in a separate section of its own. Here's a Sporting News article that mentions some more specifics, and here's a Washington Post article that mentions some general criticism from former players and sportswriters going back a ways . —Myasuda (talk) 15:13, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:NBA All-Star Game


text:
Tenth of Tevet

Tenth of Tevet (עשרה בטבת, Asarah BeTevet), the tenth day of the Hebrew month of Tevet, is a fast day in Judaism. It is one of the minor fasts observed from before dawn to nightfall. The fasting is in mourning of the siege of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylonia—an event that began on that date and ultimately culminated in the destruction of Solomon's Temple (the First Temple), downfall of the Kingdom of Judah, and the Babylonian exile of the Jewish people.

The fast day is not related to Hanukkah but happens to follow that festival by a week. Whether the 10th of Tevet occurs 7 or 8 days after the last day of Hanukkah depends on whether the preceding Hebrew month of Kislev has 29 or 30 days in the relevant year.

History
According to II Kings, on the 10th day of the 10th month (Tevet), in the ninth year of Zedekiah's reign (588 BCE), Nebuchadnezzar II, the second Neo-Babylonian emperor, began the siege of Jerusalem. Eighteen months later, on the 17th of Tammuz at the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah's reign (586 BCE), he broke through the city walls; the Romans would similarly break through the walls of Jerusalem on the 17th of Tammuz. (In the Biblical calendar, each year in the reign of the Kings of Judah or of Israel is dated from 1 Nissan. Hence, Tevet (tenth month) of Year 9 of Zedekiah is only 18 months before Tammuz (fourth month) of Year 11 of Zedekiah.)

The siege ended with the destruction of the Temple three weeks later, on Tisha B'Av, the end of the first Kingdoms. The elite of Judah was taken in exile to Babylon. The Tenth of Tevet is part of the cycle of three fasts connected with these events.

The first reference to the Tenth of Tevet as a fast appears in Zechariah 8, where it is called the "fast of the tenth month." One opinion in the Talmud states that the "fast of the tenth month" refers to the fifth of Tevet, when, according to Ezekiel, news of the destruction of the Temple reached those already in exile in Babylon. However, the tenth is the date observed today, according to the other opinion presented in the Talmud. Other references to the fast and the affliction can be found in the Book of Ezekiel (the siege) and the Book of Jeremiah.

According to tradition, as described by the liturgy for the day's selichot, the fast also commemorates other calamities that occurred throughout Jewish history on the Tenth of Tevet and the two days preceding it:
 * On the eighth of Tevet one year during the 3rd century BCE, a time of Hellenistic rule of Judea during the Second Temple period, Ptolemy II Philadelphus, Ptolemaic Pharaoh of Egypt, ordered the translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek. This work later became known as the Septuagint. Seventy-two sages were placed in solitary confinement and ordered to translate the Torah into Greek.

Judaism sees this event as a tragedy, reflecting a deprivation and debasement of the divine nature of the Torah and a subversion of its spiritual and literary qualities. They reasoned that the Torah's legal codes and deeper layers of meaning would be lost upon translation from the original Hebrew. Many Jewish laws are formulated in terms of specific Hebrew words employed in the Torah; without the original Hebrew wording, the authenticity and essence of the legal system would be damaged. The mystical ideas contained in the Torah are also drawn from the original Hebrew. As such, these would not be accessed by individuals studying the Torah in Greek (or any other language) alone. "Two things, however, rendered the Septuagint unwelcome in the long run to the Jews. Its divergence from the accepted text (afterward called the Masoretic) was too evident; and it therefore could not serve as a basis for theological discussion or for homiletic interpretation. This distrust was accentuated by the fact that it had been adopted as Sacred Scripture by the new faith."

 * On the ninth of Tevet, "something happened, but we do not know what it was..." (Shulchan Aruch). The selichot liturgy for the day states that Ezra, the great leader who brought some Jews back to the Holy Land from the Babylonian exile and who ushered in the era of the Second Temple, died on this day, and this is verified by the Kol Bo. But according to the earlier sources (the Geonim as recorded by Bahag and cited in Tur Orach Chaim 580), the specific tragedy of 9 Tevet is unknown. Some manuscripts of Simeon Kayyara (not those available to the Tur) add that Ezra and Nechemiah died on this day—but only after first stating that the Chazal gave no reason for why the day is tragic. Other suggestions are given as to why the ninth of Tevet is notable as well.

Observance
As with all minor ta'anit or fast days, the Tenth of Tevet begins at dawn (alot ha-shahar) and concludes at nightfall (tzeit hakochavim). Following the general rules of minor fasts as outlined in the Shulchan Aruch, and in contrast to Tisha B'Av, there are no additional physical constraints beyond fasting (such as the prohibitions against bathing or of wearing leather shoes).

Because it is a minor fast day, halacha exempts from fasting those who are ill, even if their illnesses are not life-threatening, and pregnant and nursing women who find fasting difficult. The Mishnah Berurah notes that it is still commendable to observe all the restrictions of Tisha B'Av on the minor fast days except for the restriction of wearing leather shoes. Even so, it says, one should not refrain from bathing in preparation for Shabbat when the Tenth of Tevet falls on a Friday.

A Torah reading, the Aneinu prayer in the Amidah, and the Avinu Malkeinu prayer are added at both shacharit and mincha services in many communities unless the fast falls on Friday, when Tachanun and Avinu Malkeinu are not said at mincha. At shacharit services, Selichot are also said, and at mincha, in Ashkenazi congregations, the Haftarah is read.

The Tenth of Tevet is the only minor fast day that can coincide with Friday in the current Hebrew calendar. When it does, the unusual event of a Torah and Haftarah reading at the mincha right before Shabbat takes place. This is fairly rare; the most recent occurrence was in 2023, while the next will happen in January 2025 (as the 2024 observance). If it falls on Friday, the fast must be observed until nightfall, even though Shabbat begins before sunset (up to 72 minutes earlier, depending on the halachic authority), and even though this requires one to enter Shabbat hungry from the fast, something typically avoided. It cannot be determined for sure whether other fasts would have the same ruling, because no other fast day can fall out on Friday, except for the Fast of the Firstborn when Passover begins on Friday night.

Although this fast is considered a minor fast, David Abudarham attributed to it an additional theoretical stringency not shared by any other fast except Yom Kippur, namely that if the Tenth of Tevet were to fall out on a Shabbat, this fast would be observed on Shabbat. (This cannot happen under the current arrangement of the Hebrew calendar.) The reason the fasts of the Tenth of Tevet and Yom Kippur must be observed on the actual day on which they occur is because of the phrase "the very day" (עצם היום הזה) is used about both of them, in Ezekiel 24:2 about the Tenth of Tevet, and similarly for Yom Kippur in Leviticus 23:28. This view is rejected by the Beit Yosef and all other major halakhic authorities, but was popularized by Rabbi Moses Sofer, who wrote a commentary based on the philosophy behind this view.

Although the Tenth of Tevet is an annual observance on the Jewish calendar, its placement around the end of the Gregorian calendar year means that in some Gregorian years, there is no observance of the fast, while in other years, the fast is observed twice. Thus, the Tenth of Tevet did not occur at all in 2019. Instead, the "2019" observance of the fast took place in January 2020, while the subsequent observance occurred in December 2020.

Day of general kaddish
The Chief Rabbinate of Israel chose to observe the Tenth of Tevet as a "general kaddish day" (yom hakaddish ha'klalli) to allow the relatives of victims of the Holocaust, and whose yahrtzeits (anniversaries of their deaths) is unknown, to observe the traditional yahrtzeit practices for the deceased, including lighting a memorial candle, learning mishnayot and reciting the kaddish. According to the policy of the Chief Rabbinate in Israel, the memorial prayer is also recited in synagogues, after the reading of the Torah at the morning services. To some religious Jews, this day is preferable as a remembrance day to Yom HaShoah since the latter occurs in the month of Nisan, in which mourning is traditionally prohibited.

title: Tenth of Tevet


text:
Private product remaining

Private Product Remaining or PPR is a means of national income accounting similar to the more commonly encountered GNP. Since government is financed through taxation and any resulting output is not (usually) sold on the market, what value is ascribed to it is disputed (see calculation problem), and it is counted in GNP. Murray Rothbard developed the GPP (Gross Private Product) and PPR measures. GPP is GNP minus income originating in government and government enterprises. PPR is GPP minus the higher of government expenditures and tax revenues plus interest received.

$$PPR = C + I - G + (X - M) \,$$

 * C is the private consumption
 * I is the Investments
 * G is Government Spending
 * X is Exports
 * M is Imports

For example, in an economy in which the private expenditures total $1,000 and government expenditures total $200, the GNP would be $1,200, GPP would be $1,000, and PPR would be $800.

title: Private product remaining


text:
Wilhelm von Biela

Baron Wilhelm von Biela (Wilhelm Freiherr von Biela; March 19, 1782 – February 18, 1856) was a German-Austrian military officer and amateur astronomer.

Wilhelm von Biela was born in Roßla, Harz (Northern Germany). He was a descendant of a prominent Protestant noble family originally from what is now the Czech Republic, the family having been exiled to Saxony after its head, Friedrich von Biela, was executed in Prague in 1621 during the religious wars of the period. Biela was the last member of his branch of the family.

After study at military college in Dresden, Biela joined the Austrian army in 1802, serving as a cadet in the Infantry Regiment 'Graf Stuart' Nr. 18. He rose to the rank of a captain of Grenadiers and participated in a number of military campaigns against Napoleon between 1805, 1809 and later on. In 1813 he was an Adjutant to General Merveldt at the Battle of Leipzig, where he was wounded.

In 1815 Biela went to Prague, where he commenced study of astronomy under Martin Alois David. He later served in Italy and was appointed the commandant of the town of Rovigo.

In the field of astronomy, he specialized in observing and calculating the orbits of comets. He also did some sunspot observations and published a series of articles, mostly in the Astronomische Nachrichten, on subjects such as comets, the theoretical considerations of comets "falling into the Sun", Tycho Brahe, and occultations of stars by the Moon. He also published a longer work on planetary rotation, Die zweite grosse Weltenkraft, nebst Ideen über einige Geheimnisse der physischen Astronomie, oder Andeutungen zu einer Theorie der Tangentialkraft (Prague, 1836). In its preface he stated that although the work was the fruit of many years of study, it could be read through in half an hour.

Biela independently discovered two comets that others had already found (notably the Great Comet of 1823, C/1823 Y1) and made one independent discovery of his own: the periodic Biela's Comet, which subsequently split in two and disintegrated. The lunar crater Biela is named after him.

Relatively little seems to be recorded of Biela's personal life: he was married to Anna (Edle von Wallenstern) and they had a daughter Emilie Freiin von Biela, born in 1820 and married in Rovigo to Moritz, Graf Forgách, another Austrian infantry officer, by whom she had two children.

In the 1840s Biela retired to Venice, where he died in 1856.

The minor planet 2281 Biela is named in his honor.

title: Wilhelm von Biela


text:
Talk:Kanjut Sar

Pakistan ranking
I am planning on removing the Pakistan elevation ranking from the infobox per reasons given at Talk:K2. Reply at the K2 talk page or here if there's an objection. -- Racer X11 Talk to me Stalk me  00:53, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kanjut Sar


text:
Talk:Coco and Kelly Miller

Is it the same Disney movie, Double Teamed, about the Burge sisters? --Rj 03:33, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

splitting up the twins
By now the Millers have had five years of career differentiation, and so this article and its categories are becoming kind of a mess. So I'm planning to split them up, retaining all this information but just letting it live in Coco Miller and Kelly Miller (basketball player). Where there's meaningful info that unites the sisters, this will be cross-referenced. Does anyone have any objections? If I don't hear any by Sunday, I'll probably do it then.--Mike Selinker 08:33, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Coco and Kelly Miller


text:
Old Louisville

Old Louisville is a historic district and neighborhood in central Louisville, Kentucky, United States. It is the third largest such district in the United States, and the largest preservation district featuring almost entirely Victorian architecture. It is also unique in that a majority of its structures are made of brick, and the neighborhood contains the highest concentration of residential homes with stained glass windows in the U.S. Many of the buildings are in the Victorian-era styles of Romanesque, Queen Anne, Italianate, among others; and many blocks have had few or no buildings razed. There are also several 20th-century buildings from 15 to 20 stories.

Old Louisville consists of about 48 city blocks and is located north of the University of Louisville's main campus and south of Broadway and Downtown Louisville, in the central portion of the modern city. The neighborhood hosts the renowned St. James Court Art Show on the first weekend in October.

Despite its name, Old Louisville was actually built as a suburb of Louisville starting in the 1870s, nearly a century after Louisville was founded. It was initially called the Southern Extension, and the name Old Louisville did not come until the 1960s. Old Louisville was initially home to some of Louisville's wealthiest residents, but saw a decline in the early and mid-20th century. Following revitalization efforts and gentrification, Old Louisville is currently home to a diverse population with a high concentration of students and young professionals.

History
Old Louisville is not actually the oldest part of Louisville. In fact, large-scale development south of Broadway did not begin until the 1870s, nearly a century after what is now Downtown Louisville was first settled. The area was initially part of three different military land grants issued in 1773, and throughout the early and mid-19th century the land passed through the hands of several speculators, meanwhile much of it was used as farmland. Some of the land south of Broadway was still in its natural state during this time, such as the 50 acre tract between Broadway and Breckenridge, known as Jacob's Woods, a popular picnic ground as late as 1845. A major attraction was Oakland Race Track, near today's Seventh and Ormsby, built in 1839 and an early forerunner to Churchill Downs.

Country estates had been built in the area as early as the 1830s, and some of Louisville's great early mansions, predominantly in the Italianate style, were built along Broadway, very near Old Louisville, before the Civil War. Development from 1850 to 1870 occurred between Broadway and Kentucky Street, the northern extreme of what came to be called Old Louisville. North-south city streets were extended throughout the area in the 1850s, and a mulecar line was extended down Fourth to Oak in 1865.

The land south of Broadway that became Old Louisville was annexed by the city in 1868, as a part of larger expansion efforts. This annexation moved the southern boundary of the city as far south as the city's House of Refuge, an area which is now the University of Louisville campus and the southern border of Old Louisville. A year later, architect Gideon Shryock called the area "a growing and beautiful suburban locality". By 1876 about a quarter of the area was occupied.

Development continued as lots were sold southward to present day Oak Street, about a third of the way between Broadway and the House of Refuge. The principal road through the suburb at this time was Central Plank Road, which became Third Street. The emerging area was called the Southern Extension by this time. Growth south of Oak was very slow until the Southern Exposition was held annually in the area from 1883 to 1887.

At the urging of Courier-Journal editor Henry Watterson, the city held the Southern Exposition, which in the words of Watterson, was meant to "advance the material welfare of the producing classes of the South and West." It was held on 45 acre at the heart of Old Louisville, where St. James Court and Central Park (originally Dupont Square) would eventually be located, and included a 600 by 900 ft enclosed exhibition building. The Exposition was opened by President Chester Arthur and attracted nearly one million visitors in its first year. The exhibition featured the first public display of Thomas Edison's light bulb, as well as what was billed as the largest artificial lighting display in history with 4,600 lamps, in a time when electric lighting was considered a novelty.

During the 1880s, after the exposition ended, the area between Oak and Hill Streets rapidly developed and became one of the city's most fashionable neighborhoods. According to historian Young E. Allison, 260 homes valued at a total of $1.6 million were constructed in Old Louisville from 1883 to 1886. The dominant styles by this time were Queen Anne and Richardsonian Romanesque. An example of the latter, which was known for its turrets, towers and bay windows, was the Conrad house at St. James Court.

These styles became less prevalent in the 1890s as the remaining southern portions of Old Louisville, between Ormsby and the House of refuge, were filled in, predominantly with buildings in the Chateauesque and Renaissance Revival styles. This included one of Old Louisville's most famous sections, St. James Court, developed starting in 1890 and envisioned as a haven for the upper class, and was completely occupied by 1905. Described as "the epitome of Victorian eclecticism", the area included houses in such styles as Venetian, Colonial, Gothic and others.

From 1890 to 1905 the area was home to the Amphitheatre Auditorium, which claimed the second largest stage in the United States and showcased many of the day's best actors. The structure, located at the corner of 4th and Hill Streets, was razed after its owner William Norton Jr. died. Another form of entertainment in the area was baseball, with the game first being played by 1860 and an early ballpark at Fourth and Ormsby emerging after the Civil War. By 1875, a new park had been built near St. James Court. Old Louisville is also home to the Ferguson Mansion, built by Edwin Hite Ferguson. Ferguson commissioned the Louisville architectural firm of Cobb and Dodd—the same firm responsible for designing the Seelbach Hotel and the new capitol building in Frankfort—to design his home in 1901. Construction of the mansion took four years (1901–1905) and cost $100,000, which was approximately ten times the cost of the neighboring Victorian homes. At the time, the mansion was the most expensive home in Louisville. In the 1920s, the Fergusons sold the home to the Pearson family, and it served as the Pearson Funeral Home until the mid-1970s. The house also provided the headquarters for John Y. Brown Jr.'s successful 1979 gubernatorial campaign. In 1986, the mansion became the headquarters of The Filson Historical Society.

In its peak in the late 19th century, Old Louisville was the center of Louisville's social life, with nearly all persons listed in the Society Directory of Louisville having Old Louisville addresses. The directory even listed the reception days and hours of Old Louisville's leading ladies, which varied by street, such as Tuesdays on Fourth Street or Thursdays on Second.

Decline
The area gradually declined as the affluent moved to newer streetcar suburbs, such as Cherokee Triangle, or built estates in areas east of Louisville recently connected by railroad, such as Anchorage and Glenview. Accelerated by the Great Depression, many of the large homes in Old Louisville were converted to boarding houses during the 1930s. The Ohio River flood of 1937 caused a great number of the remaining wealthy households to move above the flood plain.

The gradual abandonment of Old Louisville by the wealthy was a reflection of changing lifestyles brought on by technology. Many homes of Old Louisville were originally built as mansions that would require several servants to maintain. Because of the relatively high wages offered by manufacturing jobs, servants were no longer affordable to all but the wealthiest families by the mid-20th century. Interurban rail lines, and increasingly automobiles, meant that the wealthy no longer had to live so close to their businesses, and many chose to live in what had previously been summer homes in the county's east end. The lifestyle that created Old Louisville was effectively obsolete.

During the years between World War I and World War II, many of the old mansions were hastily converted into apartments to house the growing labor supply, a practice encouraged by the federal government at the time through low-interest loans. However, after World War II, with the housing shortage solved by large-scale suburban development affordable to the middle class, vacancy rates in Old Louisville surged. To attract renters, landlords had to lower rents dramatically, attracting less affluent tenants with less funds to maintain the homes.

A large section of the neighborhood, from around Kentucky Street to Broadway, was razed. Many buildings south of Lee Street, and nearly all south of Avery Street (renamed Cardinal Boulevard) were razed for the construction of Noe Middle School, expansions to Manual High School and a major expansion of the University of Louisville, as well as to expand local industry east of Floyd Street. From 1965 to 1971, 639 buildings were razed as a part of this effort. However, the plan did spur the restoration of over 100 buildings in other parts of Old Louisville.

During the 1960s many low income residents downtown who were displaced as a result of urban renewal moved into the newly converted apartments, especially on the north side of the neighborhood. The area was now considered drug ridden and undesirable by most Louisvillians. The very term Old Louisville, first becoming associated with the area in the 1940s, had mostly negative connotations initially, as historian Samuel W. Thomas put it, "In an Era where architectural styles were changing dramatically, old meant out of fashion".

Revitalization
One of the first to take an active role in preserving and revitalizing Old Louisville was Courier-Journal writer J. Douglas Nunn. In 1960 he began a vigorous public information campaign concerning the area. Nunn compared it to neighborhoods like D.C.'s Georgetown and Boston's Beacon Hill. In 1961 Nunn took a leave of absence from his job and started "Restoration, Inc.", a group that restored ten homes in Old Louisville's Belgravia Court in 1961, spurring interest in preservation that would lead many local activists to move to the area. This effort also led to the first use of the name Old Louisville in print in that year, as a reflection of the interest in preservation. With the activists' efforts the area was made into a historic preservation district in 1975. The area has continued to improve, with new restaurants and shops opening and many students, and young professionals moving into the area. Property owners, who once cheaply converted the old houses to apartments, have invested more in improvements since the 1980s, and several properties have been converted into luxury condominiums. The median home value more than doubled between 1990 and 2000, increasing at a faster rate than Louisville as a whole. This overall process of improvement and rising property values has been described as gentrification.

The area is now one of the most ethnically and economically diverse in Louisville. Crime is becoming less of a problem. While in 2003 there were 11.5 crimes per 1,000 residents, over twice the average for the city of Louisville as a whole, which was 5.0 crimes per 1,000 residents Old Louisville now has a similar number of calls for police assistance as other parts of Louisville. The Louisville Metro Police 4th Division is responsible for a large portion of Louisville beyond Old Louisville, but is conveniently located in Central Park in Old Louisville. It had 134 officers assigned to it in 2006. Most calls are related to car break-ins and non-violent crimes. Murders are still rare, with one or two per year. Overall crime rates for both Old Louisville and the city as a whole increased sharply in 2005 over the 2004 rate, although there was a decline again the first half of 2006.

Features and attractions
Old Louisville features the largest collection of pedestrian-only streets of any U.S. neighborhood. Eleven such "courts", where houses face each other across a grass median with sidewalks, were built in the neighborhood from 1891 to the 1920s. Most of the courts are centered off of 4th Street. Belgravia Court and Fountain Court were the first ones to be built in 1891 and are the most well known. Later ones included Reeser and Kensington (1910), which were built with large Victorian styled apartments instead of single family homes; and Eutropia and Rose Courts, which were the last ones built in the 1920s and featured small, single story houses. Belgravia and St. James Court were partially rehabilitated as a part of the urban renewal that began in the 1960s. These developments are apparently unique to Louisville.

Two of the three major four-year universities in Louisville are located adjacent to Old Louisville, with Spalding University to the north and the University of Louisville to the south. DuPont Manual High School, a public magnet school, and Presentation Academy, an all-girls Catholic high school, are two other well-known schools located in Old Louisville.

The neighborhood contains The Filson Historical Society, Louisville's Central Park, which features the Kentucky Shakespeare Festival every summer, the Actors Theatre of Louisville Production Studio, and the Conrad-Caldwell House. The area of 6th and Hill Streets in the neighborhood was the setting of the best selling novel Mrs. Wiggs of the Cabbage Patch by Louisvillian Alice Hegan Rice. Today there is a non-profit counseling and services center, named Cabbage Patch Settlement House for the novel, on 6th Street at Magnolia Avenue, which serves children of low-income families. During the Christmas holiday season a number of private homes are toured in the Old Louisville Holiday Home Tour.

Old Louisville's boundaries are Kentucky Street to the north, Avery Street (Cardinal Boulevard) to the south, I-65 to the east, the CSX railroad tracks to the west. Originally, the neighborhood extended all the way to Broadway on the north, Attwood Street on the south, and Floyd Street on the East; but the northern part was mostly razed for parking lots and light industry, the southern area between Attwood and Avery Streets (now Cardinal Blvd) was razed when the University of Louisville doubled the size of its main campus, and I-65 was built through the area in the 1960s, which created a physical barrier between it and Shelby Park neighborhood.

Architecture
Old Louisville is well known for its architecture, with styles ranging from Federal to Queen Anne. Very few antebellum buildings remain, and the most impressive buildings were built in the late 19th century. There are a few Italianate, Beaux-Arts and Second Empire-style houses, but Victorian styles dominate. Victorian Gothic styles are commonly seen. Many styles in Old Louisville are united by their use of red sandstone trim, which became popular by the 1880s to the point that the Courier-Journal said "few new residences are going up in Louisville in which it is not being used". Another common Victorian style is the Richardsonian.

Aside from the best represented styles of architecture listed above, Old Louisville also has several great examples of the Chateauesque style of architecture in select buildings throughout the area. For example, one of these examples is a residential building, a mansion, at 400 Belgravia Court, which is a "walking court" where the mansions face a park like walk rather than a street. This specific building was completed in 1897 and one of its first residents was William H. Wathen, M.D., an eminent medical educator in Louisville from a family of successful distillers.

Although some portions have been razed, many entire blocks remain almost untouched, and historian Theodore M. Brown said "it remains the only nineteenth-century segment of the city that is mostly intact". As infills, some American Craftsman style houses can be found in Old Louisville.

Demographics
As of 2000, the population of Old Louisville was 11,043, of which 55.9% are white, 35.0% are black, 6.3% are listed as other, and 2.3% are Hispanic. College graduates are 24.5%, people without a high school degree are 22.6%, and people with college experience without a bachelor's degree are 28.4%. Females are 52.3% of the population, males are 47.7%. Households making less than $15,000 a year are 40.8%; although that is largely a function of the 27% of residents who are full-time college students. Ironically, Old Louisville has the youngest median age of any Louisville neighborhood and the highest percent of people between the ages of 20–29 (25%).

Old Louisville's area is about 1.7 sqmi, and its population density is 7,800 persons per square mile. The best preserved portions, between Kentucky and Hill streets, have a density of over 10,000 persons per square mile.

Regions

Old Louisville is broken up into five different census tracts by the US Census Bureau. There are stark differences revealed by the different tracts from north to south.

In addition, there are eight different neighborhood associations, each of which provides different levels of infrastructure on each street. For example, on 4th Street the street lights are designed as old lamp posts and there are ornamented trash cans with a fleur-de-lis symbol at frequent intervals, while on St. James Court there are gas lamp posts, 3rd and 2nd Streets have small light posts on the sidewalks, Ouerbacker Court has cast iron decorative gates, and several other streets have basic infrastructure.

Culture
After years of decline with abandoned buildings and high elderly populations, the demographics of Old Louisville began to change noticeably in the 1990s. New residents were not just college students using the area as housing, but also young professionals who wanted to live in Old Louisville. The Courier-Journal Velocity weekly has reported the area as a hip, emerging center of culture in Louisville. This change is reflected in numerous coffeehouses, restaurants and bars opening in Old Louisville in the 1990s and early 2000s targeting at the younger crowd.

Old Louisville is one of the most liberal neighborhoods in Louisville, as evidenced by the general election results in 2004, where it voted for John Kerry by a 60% margin and against a proposal to amend the state constitution to define marriage as "between one man and one woman" by a 66% margin (the proposal passed 75% to 25% in Kentucky).

title: Old Louisville


text:
Communes of the Rhône department

The following is a list of the 208 communes of the Rhône department of France. This list does not includes the Lyon Metropolis which has 59 communes. For communes in the Lyon Metropolis, see Communes of the Lyon Metropolis.

The communes cooperate in the following intercommunalities (as of 2020):
 * Communauté d'agglomération de l'Ouest Rhodanien
 * Communauté d'agglomération Vienne Condrieu (partly)
 * Communauté d'agglomération Villefranche Beaujolais Saône (partly)
 * Communauté de communes Beaujolais Pierres Dorées
 * Communauté de communes de l'Est lyonnais
 * Communauté de communes des Monts du Lyonnais (partly)
 * Communauté de communes du Pays de L'Arbresle
 * Communauté de communes du Pays Mornantais
 * Communauté de communes du Pays de l'Ozon
 * Communauté de communes Saône Beaujolais
 * Communauté de communes de la Vallée du Garon
 * Communauté de communes des Vallons du Lyonnais

title: Communes of the Rhône department


text:
Civil Rights Act of 1866

The Civil Rights Act of 1866 (, enacted April 9, 1866, reenacted 1870) was the first United States federal law to define citizenship and affirm that all citizens are equally protected by the law. It was mainly intended, in the wake of the American Civil War, to protect the civil rights of persons of African descent born in or brought to the United States.

The Act was passed by Congress in 1866 and vetoed by U.S. President Andrew Johnson. In April 1866, Congress again passed the bill to support the Thirteenth Amendment, and Johnson again vetoed it, but a two-thirds majority in each chamber overrode the veto to allow it to become law without presidential signature.

John Bingham and other congressmen argued that Congress did not yet have sufficient constitutional power to enact this law. Following passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868, Congress ratified the 1866 Act in 1870.

Primary objectives, introduction and amendment
The act had three primary objectives for the integration of African Americans into the American society following the Civil War: 1.) a definition of American citizenship 2.) the rights which come with this citizenship and 3.) the unlawfulness to deprive any person of citizenship rights "on the basis of race, color, or prior condition of slavery or involuntary servitude." The act accomplished these three primary objectives.

The author of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 was United States Senator Lyman Trumbull. Congressman James F. Wilson summarized what he considered to be the purpose of the act as follows, when he introduced the legislation in the House of Representatives:

"It provides for the equality of citizens of the United States in the enjoyment of 'civil rights and immunities.' What do these terms mean? Do they mean that in all things civil, social, political, all citizens, without distinction of race or color, shall be equal? By no means can they be so construed. Do they mean that all citizens shall vote in the several States? No; for suffrage is a political right which has been left under the control of the several States, subject to the action of Congress only when it becomes necessary to enforce the guarantee of a republican form of government. Nor do they mean that all citizens shall sit on the juries, or that their children shall attend the same schools. The definition given to the term 'civil rights' in Bouvier's Law Dictionary is very concise, and is supported by the best authority. It is this: 'Civil rights are those which have no relation to the establishment, support, or management of government.'"

During the subsequent legislative process, the following key provision was deleted: "there shall be no discrimination in civil rights or immunities among the inhabitants of any State or Territory of the United States on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." John Bingham was an influential supporter of this deletion, on the ground that courts might construe the term "civil rights" more broadly than people like Wilson intended. Weeks later, Senator Trumbull described the bill's intended scope:

"This bill in no manner interferes with the municipal regulations of any State which protects all alike in their rights of person and property. It could have no operation in Massachusetts, New York, Illinois, or most of the States of the Union."

On April 5, 1866, the Senate overrode President Andrew Johnson's veto. This marked the first time that the U.S. Congress ever overrode a presidential veto for a major piece of legislation.

Content
With an incipit of "An Act to protect all Persons in the United States in their Civil Rights, and furnish the Means of their vindication", the act declared that all people born in the United States who are not subject to any foreign power are entitled to be citizens, without regard to race, color, or previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude. A similar provision (called the Citizenship Clause) was written a few months later into the proposed Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The Civil Rights Act of 1866 also said that any citizen has the same right that a white citizen has to make and enforce contracts, sue and be sued, give evidence in court, and inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold, and convey real and personal property. Additionally, the act guaranteed to all citizens the "full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of person and property, as is enjoyed by white citizens, and ... like punishment, pains, and penalties..." Persons who denied these rights on account of race or previous enslavement were guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction faced a fine not exceeding $1,000, or imprisonment not exceeding one year, or both.

The act used language very similar to that of the Equal Protection Clause in the newly proposed Fourteenth Amendment. In particular, the act discussed the need to provide "reasonable protection to all persons in their constitutional rights of equality before the law, without distinction of race or color, or previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted. ..."

This statute was a major part of general federal policy during Reconstruction, and was closely related to the Second Freedmen's Bureau Act of 1866. According to Congressman John Bingham, "the seventh and eighth sections of the Freedmen's Bureau bill enumerate the same rights and all the rights and privileges that are enumerated in the first section of this [the Civil Rights] bill."

Parts of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 are enforceable into the 21st century, according to the United States Code:

"All persons within the jurisdiction of the United States shall have the same right in every State and Territory to make and enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, give evidence, and to the full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of persons and property as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall be subject to like punishment, pains, penalties, taxes, licenses, and exactions of every kind, and to no other."

One section of the United States Code (42 U.S.C. §1981), is §1 of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 as revised and amended by subsequent Acts of Congress. The Civil Rights Act of 1866 was reenacted by the Enforcement Act of 1870, ch. 114, § 18, 16 Stat. 144, codified as sections 1977 and 1978 of the Revised Statutes of 1874, and appears now as 42 U.S.C. §§ 1981–82 (1970). Section 2 of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, as subsequently revised and amended, appears in the US Code at 18 U.S.C. §242. After the fourteenth amendment became effective, the 1866 Act was reenacted as an addendum to the Enforcement Act of 1870 in order to dispel any possible doubt as to its constitutionality. Act of May 31, 1870, ch. 114, § 18, 16 Stat. 144.

Enactment, constitutionalization, and reenactment
Senator Lyman Trumbull was the Senate sponsor of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, and he argued that Congress had power to enact it in order to eliminate a discriminatory "badge of servitude" prohibited by the Thirteenth Amendment. Congressman John Bingham, principal author of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, was one of several Republicans who believed (prior to that Amendment) that Congress lacked power to pass the 1866 Act. In the 20th century, the U.S. Supreme Court ultimately adopted Trumbull's Thirteenth Amendment rationale for congressional power to ban racial discrimination by states and by private parties, as the Thirteenth Amendment does not require a state actor.

To the extent that the Civil Rights Act of 1866 may have been intended to go beyond preventing discrimination, by conferring particular rights on all citizens, the constitutional power of Congress to do that was more questionable. For example, Representative William Lawrence argued that Congress had power to enact the statute because of the Privileges and Immunities Clause in Article IV of the original unamended Constitution, even though courts had suggested otherwise.

In any event, there is currently no consensus that the language of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 actually purports to confer any legal benefits upon white citizens. Representative Samuel Shellabarger said that it did not.

After enactment of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 by overriding a presidential veto, some members of Congress supported the Fourteenth Amendment in order to eliminate doubts about the constitutionality of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, or to ensure that no subsequent Congress could later repeal or alter the main provisions of that Act. Thus, the Citizenship Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment parallels citizenship language in the Civil Rights Act of 1866, and likewise the Equal Protection Clause parallels nondiscrimination language in the 1866 Act; the extent to which other clauses in the Fourteenth Amendment may have incorporated elements of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 is a matter of continuing debate.

Ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment was completed in 1868, 2 years after, the 1866 Act was reenacted, as Section 18 of the Enforcement Act of 1870.

Aftermath and consequences
After Johnson's veto was overridden, the measure became law. Despite this victory, even some Republicans who had supported the goals of the Civil Rights Act began to doubt that Congress possessed the constitutional power to turn those goals into laws. The experience encouraged both radical and moderate Republicans to seek Constitutional guarantees for black rights, rather than relying on temporary political majorities.

The activities of groups such as the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) undermined the act, meaning that it failed to immediately secure the civil rights of African Americans.

While it has been de jure illegal in the U.S. to discriminate in employment and housing on the basis of race since 1866, federal penalties were not provided for until the second half of the 20th century (with the passage of related civil rights legislation), which meant remedies were left to the individuals involved: because those being discriminated against had limited or no access to legal assistance, this often left many victims of discrimination without recourse.

There have been an increasing number of remedies provided under this act since the second half of the 20th century, including the landmark Jones v. Mayer and Sullivan v. Little Hunting Park, Inc. decisions in 1968.

title: Civil Rights Act of 1866